<p>There's only so much you can do about this without a multi-material printer that can utilize dissolvable material or material that doesn't bond to the print material, and print the supports at zero distance from the model. So expect it to be ugly. But not quite that ugly.</p>
<p>Slicers, including Cura, have options to control the Z distance between the support material and your model, among other things. Reducing this will make it harder to remove the supports, but will give a better bottom surface. It only really works on whole-layer granularity in Cura (while some other slicers let you do arbitrary distances), and really should always be equal to one layer. A distance of two or more layers will give really bad results, which might be what you're seeing.</p>
<p>Also, Cura has an option called &quot;support interface&quot;, which you want on. This prints a flat top surface on top of the support, below your print, so that all the lines of the print have something they're resting on. Without this, the bottom surface over the support will sag down between the lines of the support and look very bad - or, if it's a small detail, it might sink entirely between lines of the support and effectively not be supported at all!</p>
<p>Finally, one hack you can try if you don't have a multi-material printer but want to try printing supports at zero distance from your model: set support Z distance to zero and use a slicer plugin to pause-at-height just past the top surface of the support. Then, when the printer pauses, paint a release agent that won't bond to the print material on top of the support. Reportedly Sharpie permanent markers work as such a release agent, but I haven't tried this, and there are probably better choices.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-27T03:39:04.000Z
Thank you for the response. Not new to 3d, but new to printing on my own. The ender 3 was from my cousin,  and it definitely has given me a lot to think about when I purchase another. I'll try adjusting those settings.
Russell Valois
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-30T07:23:08.930Z
Interesting about the sharpie as release agent.  Idea:  paint PVA glue, like Elmer's as the release agent, then dissolve it in water later.  Similar to printing dissolveable support with PVA filament.
ChinchillaWafers
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-26T22:25:21.890Z
2022-08-26T22:25:21.890Z
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
<p>You cannot print into the air (hot filament will sag when not supported). Do remember that even with support enabled, you are printing into air. This is because there is always a gap between the print object and the support structure, the option is called <code>Z distance</code>. If there wasn't a gap, the print object will fuse to the support structure. You may want to increase fan cooling or decrease the Z distance between support and print object to get better print results, but, print orientation is also important, sometimes placing an object under an angle works. In the example you provided, it is clear that  it is better printed upright (unless there is a recess at the other side).</p>
<p>From experience, to increase the surface above the support structure, having the option <code>Enable support interface</code> enabled will add a dense surface on top of the support structure. This surface, in conjunction with the correct gap and cooling when dialed in correctly will provide better surfaces above support structures.</p>
<hr />
<p><a href="https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012612779-Support-settings" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><strong>Z distance</strong> <em>(in Ultimaker Cura)</em></a></p>
<p><em>This refers to the distance from the top and bottom of the support structure relative to the model. This setting is divided into the top distance and bottom distance. The top distance defines the distance between the top of the support and bottom of the model and the bottom distance refers to the distance between the bottom of the support and top part of the model.</em></p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/KMUX6.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/KMUX6.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p><em>A small distance between the support structure and parts of the model is necessary in order to remove the supports easily after the model has been printed. A low value creates a smoother surface, but can also make it more difficult to remove the support properly.</em></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-27T03:41:04.153Z
Thank you. I'm new to the whole 3d printing and it's a lot of settings to mess around with. Gonna mess with settings and also see if it gets better printed at an angle.
Russell Valois
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-27T05:25:05.060Z
@RussellValois No problem, we were all new once!  Please use the voting buttons instead, as it is votes which drive the community. If I'm not mistaken, you are also new at Stack Exchange, please read the [help], accessible through the button with the question mark at the top right menu. Also take the [about]. Welcome at 3DPrinting.SE!
0scar
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-26T22:45:50.583Z
2022-08-26T22:45:50.583Z
0scar
<p>It is extra work, but if the overhang/recess is flat and parallel to the build plate, you can get a very nice surface finish, with a single material fdm printer. The trick is to put down a layer of blue masking tape  on a solid support structure the layer before the overhang prints.</p>
<p>You could model in a throwaway “plug” with your model, with a 1mm horizontal gap between it and the real walls, and a single layer gap (like .2mm) vertically between the plug and the overhang surface. Or one could potentially futz with the support settings to generate a solid interface layer on top of the support and a one layer gap between the interface and the overhang.</p>
<p>Once sliced, you program a pause at the end of the layer before the overhang.  It is good to program in few extras in the G-code: a movement to retract the filament to make it ooze less, and an X and Y G1 movement so the hotend doesn’t ooze on the model and make a lump. Last, a command to disable the X and Y motors so you can move the bed or carriage around to get it out of the way.</p>
<p>Once paused put down some blue masking tape over the pulg completely.  press it down and make an indent where the gap is.  Then cut out the plug shape in the masking tape with an exacto knife, following the indent.  Now is a good time to put the glue stick on the tape.</p>
<p>When ready to start the print again, home the X and Y axis, and extrude some filament, since undoubtedly the nozzle has oozed out the filament in the nozzle, you don’t want it shooting blanks when you start the next layer.</p>
<p>It is important to go SLOW when printing over the masking tape, or it won’t stick. It is also helpful to increase the extrusion temporarily to get it to stick better.  This can be done by hand, or programmed into the G-Code if you are running the job multiple times and don’t want to babysit.</p>
<p>When the print is done, the plug should be easily removed.  A little rinse of water can get rid of any residue from the glue stick.</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/rZ9sF.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/rZ9sF.jpg" alt="Printing over raised masking tape area" /></a></p>
<p>Here is some example G-Code of the pause, taping, and aftermath:</p>
<pre><code>G1 Z0.980 F9000.000 ; Z step to the layer with overhang to print
G1 E0.11935 F3900.00000 ; some extruder move
G92 E0 ; extruder length reset
G1 X25 ; move nozzle away from print
M18; disable steppers

@pause painters tape ; printer pauses and displays message. Add tape, cut out. When finished, prime nozzle, remove blob with tweezers, immediately click continue
G28 X0 ;home  X axis
G28 Y0 ;home Y axis
G92 E0 ; reset extrusion distance
G1 E-1 ;retract
G92 E0

M220 S25 ; slow speed to 25%, for better adhesion to painters tape. 
;remember to add command later, after tape is covered, to speed it back to 100%
M221 S150 ; increase flow rate to 150%, to adhere to painters tape. return to 100% later!

G92 E0
G1 X130.071 Y164.894 F9000.000 ; print job continues...
G1 E1.50000 F3900.00000

</code></pre>
<p>Then later on, after the layer has gone down over the tape, add</p>
<pre><code>M220 S100 ; return print speed to 100%
M221 S100 ; return extrusion rate to 100%
</code></pre>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-30T06:35:20.630Z
2022-08-30T07:27:02.943Z
2022-08-30T07:27:02.943Z
ChinchillaWafers
<p>I'm attaching a picture to show my issue. I'm hoping might be an easy settings fix, or at least maybe someone has a couple suggestions I can try. I'm using an Ender 3, and the program Cura. The print on the left was printed with the opening facing up. The print on the right with the hole facing down. The support leaves a rough surface. Any suggestions for support settings would be appreciated. <a href="https://i.sstatic.net/AnkLP.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/AnkLP.jpg" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>

<ultimaker-cura><support-structures>
Layer above support is very rough
Russell Valois
# Layer above support is very rough

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-08-26)

I'm attaching a picture to show my issue. I'm hoping might be an easy settings fix, or at least maybe someone has a couple suggestions I can try. I'm using an Ender 3, and the program Cura. The print on the left was printed with the opening facing up. The print on the right with the hole facing down. The support leaves a rough surface. Any suggestions for support settings would be appreciated. [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/AnkLP.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/AnkLP.jpg)

**Tags:** ultimaker-cura, support-structures

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2022-08-26. Score: 4

There's only so much you can do about this without a multi-material printer that can utilize dissolvable material or material that doesn't bond to the print material, and print the supports at zero distance from the model. So expect it to be ugly. But not quite that ugly.

Slicers, including Cura, have options to control the Z distance between the support material and your model, among other things. Reducing this will make it harder to remove the supports, but will give a better bottom surface. It only really works on whole-layer granularity in Cura (while some other slicers let you do arbitrary distances), and really should always be equal to one layer. A distance of two or more layers will give really bad results, which might be what you're seeing.

Also, Cura has an option called "support interface", which you want on. This prints a flat top surface on top of the support, below your print, so that all the lines of the print have something they're resting on. Without this, the bottom surface over the support will sag down between the lines of the support and look very bad - or, if it's a small detail, it might sink entirely between lines of the support and effectively not be supported at all!

Finally, one hack you can try if you don't have a multi-material printer but want to try printing supports at zero distance from your model: set support Z distance to zero and use a slicer plugin to pause-at-height just past the top surface of the support. Then, when the printer pauses, paint a release agent that won't bond to the print material on top of the support. Reportedly Sharpie permanent markers work as such a release agent, but I haven't tried this, and there are probably better choices.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you for the response. Not new to 3d, but new to printing on my own. The ender 3 was from my cousin,  and it definitely has given me a lot to think about when I purchase another. I'll try adjusting those settings.  
> **username_2**: Interesting about the sharpie as release agent.  Idea:  paint PVA glue, like Elmer's as the release agent, then dissolve it in water later.  Similar to printing dissolveable support with PVA filament.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2022-08-26. Score: 2

You cannot print into the air (hot filament will sag when not supported). Do remember that even with support enabled, you are printing into air. This is because there is always a gap between the print object and the support structure, the option is called `Z distance`. If there wasn't a gap, the print object will fuse to the support structure. You may want to increase fan cooling or decrease the Z distance between support and print object to get better print results, but, print orientation is also important, sometimes placing an object under an angle works. In the example you provided, it is clear that it is better printed upright (unless there is a recess at the other side).

From experience, to increase the surface above the support structure, having the option `Enable support interface` enabled will add a dense surface on top of the support structure. This surface, in conjunction with the correct gap and cooling when dialed in correctly will provide better surfaces above support structures.

---

[**Z distance** *(in Ultimaker Cura)*](https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012612779-Support-settings)

*This refers to the distance from the top and bottom of the support structure relative to the model. This setting is divided into the top distance and bottom distance. The top distance defines the distance between the top of the support and bottom of the model and the bottom distance refers to the distance between the bottom of the support and top part of the model.*

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/KMUX6.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/KMUX6.png)

*A small distance between the support structure and parts of the model is necessary in order to remove the supports easily after the model has been printed. A low value creates a smoother surface, but can also make it more difficult to remove the support properly.*

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you. I'm new to the whole 3d printing and it's a lot of settings to mess around with. Gonna mess with settings and also see if it gets better printed at an angle.  
> **username_3**: @RussellValois No problem, we were all new once!  Please use the voting buttons instead, as it is votes which drive the community. If I'm not mistaken, you are also new at Stack Exchange, please read the [help], accessible through the button with the question mark at the top right menu. Also take the [about]. Welcome at 3DPrinting.SE!  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2022-08-30. Score: 1

It is extra work, but if the overhang/recess is flat and parallel to the build plate, you can get a very nice surface finish, with a single material fdm printer. The trick is to put down a layer of blue masking tape  on a solid support structure the layer before the overhang prints.
You could model in a throwaway “plug” with your model, with a 1mm horizontal gap between it and the real walls, and a single layer gap (like .2mm) vertically between the plug and the overhang surface. Or one could potentially futz with the support settings to generate a solid interface layer on top of the support and a one layer gap between the interface and the overhang.
Once sliced, you program a pause at the end of the layer before the overhang.  It is good to program in few extras in the G-code: a movement to retract the filament to make it ooze less, and an X and Y G1 movement so the hotend doesn’t ooze on the model and make a lump. Last, a command to disable the X and Y motors so you can move the bed or carriage around to get it out of the way.
Once paused put down some blue masking tape over the pulg completely.  press it down and make an indent where the gap is.  Then cut out the plug shape in the masking tape with an exacto knife, following the indent.  Now is a good time to put the glue stick on the tape.
When ready to start the print again, home the X and Y axis, and extrude some filament, since undoubtedly the nozzle has oozed out the filament in the nozzle, you don’t want it shooting blanks when you start the next layer.
It is important to go SLOW when printing over the masking tape, or it won’t stick. It is also helpful to increase the extrusion temporarily to get it to stick better.  This can be done by hand, or programmed into the G-Code if you are running the job multiple times and don’t want to babysit.
When the print is done, the plug should be easily removed.  A little rinse of water can get rid of any residue from the glue stick.

Here is some example G-Code of the pause, taping, and aftermath:
G1 Z0.980 F9000.000 ; Z step to the layer with overhang to print
G1 E0.11935 F3900.00000 ; some extruder move
G92 E0 ; extruder length reset
G1 X25 ; move nozzle away from print
M18; disable steppers

@pause painters tape ; printer pauses and displays message. Add tape, cut out. When finished, prime nozzle, remove blob with tweezers, immediately click continue
G28 X0 ;home  X axis
G28 Y0 ;home Y axis
G92 E0 ; reset extrusion distance
G1 E-1 ;retract
G92 E0

M220 S25 ; slow speed to 25%, for better adhesion to painters tape. 
;remember to add command later, after tape is covered, to speed it back to 100%
M221 S150 ; increase flow rate to 150%, to adhere to painters tape. return to 100% later!

G92 E0
G1 X130.071 Y164.894 F9000.000 ; print job continues...
G1 E1.50000 F3900.00000


Then later on, after the layer has gone down over the tape, add
M220 S100 ; return print speed to 100%
M221 S100 ; return extrusion rate to 100%


---

