<p>If your extruder uses spring tension to hold the filament against the hob, the effective diameter of the filament at the point the hob contacts, which determines the amount moved, is a function of the compressibility of the material. Thus, it makes sense to use a higher flow ratio for more compressible filaments. However, this is very much a matter of what type of extruder your machine has, and doesn't apply if you have a tension arm holding the idler bearing at fixed distance from the hob.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-17T08:00:52.247Z
Ah, interesting! It's a Flashforge Creator 3 - I can't actually find the answer to this (it hasn't arrived yet). Although for PLA the value is set to 97% which still seems strange, since surely this explanation would only  result in _less_ filament being pushed and never more?
Danny Tuppeny
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-17T16:13:38.233Z
Maybe it's assuming the 100% point is set based on slightly more compression? I don't know. Or it could all just be magical fairy dust. The idea of using a different extrusion ratio for the first layer certainly is; there's no physical justification for doing that, and it's just a compensation for having your bed height wrong, but that's not material-specific.
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-17T17:46:48.760Z
It seems weird to pick based on some compression though.. To me it'd make more sense to assume none (or at least, the lease compressable material) than some abitrary point higher. It's almost like software is making up for something being wrong in the hardware  I think I agree about the first layer - it shouldn't be needed, but since it's very hard to get things perfect (esp. as it seems the levelling only advises to move in 45 degree increments), a slight overextrusion in the first layer might be prefereable to it being much harder to get the print to stick :-)
Danny Tuppeny
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-17T00:24:47.347Z
2021-08-17T00:24:47.347Z
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
<p>I may be entirely out of my league here, But I think it's related to Viscosity, or how thin or thick the fluid plastic is while hot and Temperature Expansion, how much larger in volume the fluid plastic will be hot compared to cold.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:35:34.880Z
I wondered that too, but I couldn't find anything online about this. For example [this Prusa help page](https://www.help.prusa3d.com/en/article/extrusion-multiplier-calibration_2257/) says "Basic materials (PLA, ABS, PETG) Extrusion Multiplier = 1" and "This calibration is not necessary with Prusament". I've also never modified this on my previous printer for PLA, so not sure why even PLA is 97% here.
Danny Tuppeny
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:19:49.807Z
2021-08-16T12:19:49.807Z
craftxbox
<p>In FlashPrint there is an <strong>Extrusion Ratio</strong> setting. It's set to 97 % for the stock PLA profile and 107 % for the stock PETG profile.</p>
<p>I would've thought these would be 100 % by default (and the same for all materials). Why is it that these defaults make sense and they differ? Why would you need to push more PETG for the same print than PLA if they're the same diameter filament?</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/fiXhW.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer" title="FlashPrint Extrusion Ratio setting"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/fiXhW.png" alt="FlashPrint Extrusion Ratio setting" title="FlashPrint Extrusion Ratio setting" /></a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-11-15T00:13:21.500Z
Just found that FlashPrint-MP has 110% extrusion by default for Monoprice Voxel for both PLA and ABS default profiles.
Alexey Loskutov
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:35:09.493Z
I think that it may be a better resource to ask this question generally, ie "Why would you use different extrusion ratios for different materials" rather than being slicer-specific
craftxbox
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:37:59.200Z
@craftxbox perhaps, but as far as I can tell this might be specific to FlashPrint. I can't find any other recommentations for doing this (eg. https://www.help.prusa3d.com/en/article/extrusion-multiplier-calibration_2257/ says default to 1 for PLA and PETG).
Danny Tuppeny
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:39:43.317Z
Yes, it's true that most other slicers don't configure this setting, Flashprint is unique here, I just mean that it may be better to phrase it in such a way that it comes like "Why would I change it for myself?" instead of "Why does this software do it differently?"
craftxbox
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:44:31.717Z
@craftxbox I understand why I might change it myself, but I'm specifically interested in why FlashPrint has these defaults. How did they pick them? Doesn't a value < 100% suggest there will be less material than required? And why would pushing 5mm at the extruder result in something other than 5mm x diameter out the nozzle? Does it expect to slip? What's different about this slicer/printer to others?
Danny Tuppeny
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:46:20.990Z
Yes, that's true. I'm honestly not sure how they determined the values imperically, most of the time that stuff is more 'trial and error' type change and see what works better and what works worse. Extruders usually don't work volumetrically, They're only pushing however many millimeters of filament out, but they don't know what that's actually doing inside the hotend.
craftxbox
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-16T12:55:00.053Z
@craftxbox but if you push 5mm and the diameter of the roll is consistent and there's no slipping (and the filament has no air in it?), the amount of plastic coming out of the nozzle should be known exactly too. It feels to me like this adjustment is more likely to differ based on the brand/accuracy of a roll rather than the type of filament? 
Danny Tuppeny
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-18T09:43:35.800Z
I found that ASA and PACF both have this value set to 100%, so maybe they used that as a baseline, then found PLA extruded too much? Still unsure if it's their specific materials or a good general rule though (I've seen others say to extrude _less_ PETG but this looks to do more). I guess there may be some trial and error/testing in my future!
Danny Tuppeny
<extrusion><flashforge><flashprint>
Why does FlashPrint have different (non-100%) default extrusion ratios for different filaments?
Danny Tuppeny
# Why does FlashPrint have different (non-100%) default extrusion ratios for different filaments?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-08-16)

In FlashPrint there is an **Extrusion Ratio** setting. It's set to 97 % for the stock PLA profile and 107 % for the stock PETG profile.

I would've thought these would be 100 % by default (and the same for all materials). Why is it that these defaults make sense and they differ? Why would you need to push more PETG for the same print than PLA if they're the same diameter filament?

[![FlashPrint Extrusion Ratio setting](https://i.sstatic.net/fiXhW.png "FlashPrint Extrusion Ratio setting")](https://i.sstatic.net/fiXhW.png "FlashPrint Extrusion Ratio setting")

**Tags:** extrusion, flashforge, flashprint
> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: I think that it may be a better resource to ask this question generally, ie "Why would you use different extrusion ratios for different materials" rather than being slicer-specific  
> **username_0**: @craftxbox perhaps, but as far as I can tell this might be specific to FlashPrint. I can't find any other recommentations for doing this (eg. https://www.help.prusa3d.com/en/article/extrusion-multiplier-calibration_2257/ says default to 1 for PLA and PETG).  
> **username_2**: Yes, it's true that most other slicers don't configure this setting, Flashprint is unique here, I just mean that it may be better to phrase it in such a way that it comes like "Why would I change it for myself?" instead of "Why does this software do it differently?"  
> **username_0**: @craftxbox I understand why I might change it myself, but I'm specifically interested in why FlashPrint has these defaults. How did they pick them? Doesn't a value < 100% suggest there will be less material than required? And why would pushing 5mm at the extruder result in something other than 5mm x diameter out the nozzle? Does it expect to slip? What's different about this slicer/printer to others?  
> **username_2**: Yes, that's true. I'm honestly not sure how they determined the values imperically, most of the time that stuff is more 'trial and error' type change and see what works better and what works worse. Extruders usually don't work volumetrically, They're only pushing however many millimeters of filament out, but they don't know what that's actually doing inside the hotend.  
> **username_0**: @craftxbox but if you push 5mm and the diameter of the roll is consistent and there's no slipping (and the filament has no air in it?), the amount of plastic coming out of the nozzle should be known exactly too. It feels to me like this adjustment is more likely to differ based on the brand/accuracy of a roll rather than the type of filament?   
> **username_0**: I found that ASA and PACF both have this value set to 100%, so maybe they used that as a baseline, then found PLA extruded too much? Still unsure if it's their specific materials or a good general rule though (I've seen others say to extrude _less_ PETG but this looks to do more). I guess there may be some trial and error/testing in my future!  
> **username_1**: Just found that FlashPrint-MP has 110% extrusion by default for Monoprice Voxel for both PLA and ABS default profiles.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2021-08-17. Score: 1

If your extruder uses spring tension to hold the filament against the hob, the effective diameter of the filament at the point the hob contacts, which determines the amount moved, is a function of the compressibility of the material. Thus, it makes sense to use a higher flow ratio for more compressible filaments. However, this is very much a matter of what type of extruder your machine has, and doesn't apply if you have a tension arm holding the idler bearing at fixed distance from the hob.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Ah, interesting! It's a Flashforge Creator 3 - I can't actually find the answer to this (it hasn't arrived yet). Although for PLA the value is set to 97% which still seems strange, since surely this explanation would only  result in _less_ filament being pushed and never more?  
> **username_3**: Maybe it's assuming the 100% point is set based on slightly more compression? I don't know. Or it could all just be magical fairy dust. The idea of using a different extrusion ratio for the first layer certainly is; there's no physical justification for doing that, and it's just a compensation for having your bed height wrong, but that's not material-specific.  
> **username_0**: It seems weird to pick based on some compression though.. To me it'd make more sense to assume none (or at least, the lease compressable material) than some abitrary point higher. It's almost like software is making up for something being wrong in the hardware  I think I agree about the first layer - it shouldn't be needed, but since it's very hard to get things perfect (esp. as it seems the levelling only advises to move in 45 degree increments), a slight overextrusion in the first layer might be prefereable to it being much harder to get the print to stick :-)  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2021-08-16. Score: 0

I may be entirely out of my league here, But I think it's related to Viscosity, or how thin or thick the fluid plastic is while hot and Temperature Expansion, how much larger in volume the fluid plastic will be hot compared to cold.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I wondered that too, but I couldn't find anything online about this. For example [this Prusa help page](https://www.help.prusa3d.com/en/article/extrusion-multiplier-calibration_2257/) says "Basic materials (PLA, ABS, PETG) Extrusion Multiplier = 1" and "This calibration is not necessary with Prusament". I've also never modified this on my previous printer for PLA, so not sure why even PLA is 97% here.  

---

