<p>I'm attempting to print <a href="https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4878426" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this print-in-place bag clip</a> (in the 80 and 100 sizes).  Early prints came out well, except that my persistent elephant foot resulted in locking the hinge.</p>
<p>Oddly, a few days ago I printed four simultaneous copies of <a href="https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4896910" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this print in place wall hook</a> with the same filament and settings (before adjusting the initial layer and line width) and they required almost no &quot;exercising&quot; after printing to hinge freely from the stop to latched closed.  The hinge design on these is simpler, without the &quot;easy printing without steep overhangs feature&quot; (using no-support-needed slopes); instead, the lower casing of the hinge acts as supports for the pin and its flange, which then acts as supports for the upper casing.</p>
<p>I'm printing in Amazon Basics PLA, nozzle at 200 °C, bed at 55 °C.  I level the bed with a 0.08 mm feeler gauge after homing and jogging the Z axis to 0.075 mm, and I adjust pretty tight, so I'm setting effectively zero clearance.  I've adjusted my settings in Cura 4.10.0 (0.2 mm overall layer height, 0.4 mm line width) as follows: Initial Layer Horizontal Expansion -0.3 mm, Initial Layer Line Width 90%, Initial Layer Height 0.3 mm, Wall Line Width 0.35 mm in order to attempt to correct elephant foot without losing bed adhesion (printing on the uncoated side of a Creality borosilicate glass bed using a glue stick wash), and I'm getting good first layers, but by the third layer, even with the reduced line width, the hinge parts are fusing.</p>
<p>With this particular Thing, the option exists to open the object in FreeCAD and adjust a &quot;hinge tolerance&quot; parameter to give the hinge larger clearances, but I understand from <a href="https://3dprinting.stackexchange.com/questions/13940/expansion-in-bottom-skin-after-first-layer">this question and its answers</a> that this problem occurring in the second and third layers is likely a Z travel problem, my first few layers not being as high as the printer's firmware thinks they are -- and there doesn't seem to be a way to &quot;taper off&quot; the line width and flow level adjustments that can be applied to the first layer, as opposed to &quot;second layer has same settings as layer 122.&quot;  There's also the possibility of slicing the part upside down, so the critical clearances aren't in the bottom 3-4 layers, but this design might not permit that to work.</p>
<p>Pursuant to that, I've tightened the eccentric wheels on both uprights to the point I can barely slip the wheel when the gantry is restrained, but without any change in the way the hinge gaps fill in on layers 2 and 3.</p>
<p>So: how can I correct this second and third layer expansion so my print-in-place parts will work correctly?</p>
<p>Edit: This doesn't seem like a long time, but it's been rather humid here recently, so it's possible this excessive expansion is related to moisture in the filament.  I ran out the filament spool I was using (unsealed about two weeks ago) and opened a new spool of the same brand/type: Amazon Basics PLA -- and started getting a good print with only common elephant foot amelioration (small negative horizontal expansion in initial layer).  The print failed for a seemingly unrelated reason, but I should be able to try again soon.</p>
<p>Edit 2: After correcting a loose thermistor that was causing thermal runaways, I was able to complete a print with the fresher filament (after a week of continued humid weather), and did get a better print -- in that I was able to break the lightly fused hinge loose and get a bag clip that works as intended.  I'm still seeing considerable expansion in layers 2 and 3, which aren't accessible to &quot;initial layer&quot; settings that would otherwise ameliorate elephant foot, but with four layers for both bottom and top skin, I'm seeing no expansion at the top (as has been suggested as the cause due to overextrusion of bottom skin).</p>
<p>Edit 3: most recently, I've gotten a successful print by adjusting the &quot;horizontal expansion&quot; in the slicer -- giving -0.1 mm in initial layer, and -0.05 mm for the rest of the part.  This doesn't eliminate the layer expansion, but does reduce the hinge fusing to the point I can break the parts free after the print completes.  I continue to doubt pressure from the interior of the layer could cause this; I've watched these layers print, and the three lines of the wall print first, inside to outside, followed by a fourth line forming the border of the skin fill, and then the skin fill.  The wall lines, then, ought to be well adhered and cooled by the time the skin layer starts to fill in.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-08T15:19:23.220Z
Do you perhaps just have overextrusion? Once you get past the solid bottom layers, it will mostly disappear into infill zone, but it will accumulate for the first few layers with nowhere for it to go.
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-08T17:26:17.937Z
@R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE But wouldn't I see that as a reverse elephant foot in the equal number of solid layers at the top?  Those layers have no visible expansion.  For that matter, the walls print before the solid fill on the bottom layers, so they should be stuck to previous layer and at least partially cooled before the fill goes in.
Zeiss Ikon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-08T18:02:24.653Z
Only if you have sufficiently many top layers. The first one sags roughly a whole layer, allowing for a lot of excess material in the subsequent ones.
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-12-10T15:00:30.657Z
Is your initial z-height too low?
Perry Webb
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-12-10T15:43:51.180Z
I presume you mean the "zero height" before stepping up for layer 1?  I set this to effectively zero -- home, manually step up 0.075 mm, then level the bed with a .08 mm feeler gage blade.  First layer should then be 0.2 mm (that's what displays, anyway), and each layer after another 0.2 mm.
Zeiss Ikon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-12-10T15:44:17.343Z
Woops, forgot to ping @PerryWebb above.
Zeiss Ikon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-09T10:59:33.427Z
@R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE I normally run 4 layers both top and bottom.  I suppose I could try cutting extrusion to 95% and see if it's better.
Zeiss Ikon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-09T11:01:18.903Z
@Kezat As tagged, it's an Ender 3.   Not V2 or Pro; the cheap one.
Zeiss Ikon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-09T17:34:39.220Z
That's why I prefer designs that print the parts separated, and I put them together after the print.  The hing could snap together in such a way that closing the clip pushes the hing together tighter.
Perry Webb
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-09T18:01:57.527Z
Exactly, that's why it is only a comment.
Perry Webb
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-09T22:45:44.833Z
@R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE I tried cutting bottom skin extrusion to 90%, and the skin wasn't sticking to the wall on the first layer.  I raised skin overlap to 50%, and the second layer fused at the hinge clearance again.
Zeiss Ikon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-11T12:22:38.100Z
@R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE I changed filament and started getting a good print (before a thermal runaway halt -- apparently I need to recheck my thermistor seating).  Could PLA a couple weeks old (since unsealing) have absorbed enough moisture to start misbehaving?
Zeiss Ikon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-11T16:50:32.037Z
Yes, Some blends of PLA can absorb moisture at a heightened rate compared to others. Have you solved your problem? If so, it's acceptable for you to make an answer for your own question!
craftxbox
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-08-11T17:25:25.310Z
Once I know it's solved, I'll do that.  There's still some expansion in layers 2 and 3, just not quite enough to lock the hinge on this bag clip.
Zeiss Ikon
<creality-ender-3><pla><calibration><glass-bed>
How can I correct *second and third layer* elephant foot?
Zeiss Ikon
# How can I correct *second and third layer* elephant foot?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-08-08)

I'm attempting to print [this print-in-place bag clip](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4878426) (in the 80 and 100 sizes). Early prints came out well, except that my persistent elephant foot resulted in locking the hinge.

Oddly, a few days ago I printed four simultaneous copies of [this print in place wall hook](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4896910) with the same filament and settings (before adjusting the initial layer and line width) and they required almost no "exercising" after printing to hinge freely from the stop to latched closed. The hinge design on these is simpler, without the "easy printing without steep overhangs feature" (using no-support-needed slopes); instead, the lower casing of the hinge acts as supports for the pin and its flange, which then acts as supports for the upper casing.

I'm printing in Amazon Basics PLA, nozzle at 200 °C, bed at 55 °C. I level the bed with a 0.08 mm feeler gauge after homing and jogging the Z axis to 0.075 mm, and I adjust pretty tight, so I'm setting effectively zero clearance. I've adjusted my settings in Cura 4.10.0 (0.2 mm overall layer height, 0.4 mm line width) as follows: Initial Layer Horizontal Expansion -0.3 mm, Initial Layer Line Width 90%, Initial Layer Height 0.3 mm, Wall Line Width 0.35 mm in order to attempt to correct elephant foot without losing bed adhesion (printing on the uncoated side of a Creality borosilicate glass bed using a glue stick wash), and I'm getting good first layers, but by the third layer, even with the reduced line width, the hinge parts are fusing.

With this particular Thing, the option exists to open the object in FreeCAD and adjust a "hinge tolerance" parameter to give the hinge larger clearances, but I understand from [this question and its answers](https://3dprinting.stackexchange.com/questions/13940/expansion-in-bottom-skin-after-first-layer) that this problem occurring in the second and third layers is likely a Z travel problem, my first few layers not being as high as the printer's firmware thinks they are -- and there doesn't seem to be a way to "taper off" the line width and flow level adjustments that can be applied to the first layer, as opposed to "second layer has same settings as layer 122." There's also the possibility of slicing the part upside down, so the critical clearances aren't in the bottom 3-4 layers, but this design might not permit that to work.

Pursuant to that, I've tightened the eccentric wheels on both uprights to the point I can barely slip the wheel when the gantry is restrained, but without any change in the way the hinge gaps fill in on layers 2 and 3.

So: how can I correct this second and third layer expansion so my print-in-place parts will work correctly?

Edit: This doesn't seem like a long time, but it's been rather humid here recently, so it's possible this excessive expansion is related to moisture in the filament. I ran out the filament spool I was using (unsealed about two weeks ago) and opened a new spool of the same brand/type: Amazon Basics PLA -- and started getting a good print with only common elephant foot amelioration (small negative horizontal expansion in initial layer). The print failed for a seemingly unrelated reason, but I should be able to try again soon.

Edit 2: After correcting a loose thermistor that was causing thermal runaways, I was able to complete a print with the fresher filament (after a week of continued humid weather), and did get a better print -- in that I was able to break the lightly fused hinge loose and get a bag clip that works as intended. I'm still seeing considerable expansion in layers 2 and 3, which aren't accessible to "initial layer" settings that would otherwise ameliorate elephant foot, but with four layers for both bottom and top skin, I'm seeing no expansion at the top (as has been suggested as the cause due to overextrusion of bottom skin).

Edit 3: most recently, I've gotten a successful print by adjusting the "horizontal expansion" in the slicer -- giving -0.1 mm in initial layer, and -0.05 mm for the rest of the part. This doesn't eliminate the layer expansion, but does reduce the hinge fusing to the point I can break the parts free after the print completes. I continue to doubt pressure from the interior of the layer could cause this; I've watched these layers print, and the three lines of the wall print first, inside to outside, followed by a fourth line forming the border of the skin fill, and then the skin fill. The wall lines, then, ought to be well adhered and cooled by the time the skin layer starts to fill in.

**Tags:** creality-ender-3, pla, calibration, glass-bed
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Do you perhaps just have overextrusion? Once you get past the solid bottom layers, it will mostly disappear into infill zone, but it will accumulate for the first few layers with nowhere for it to go.  
> **username_0**: @R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE But wouldn't I see that as a reverse elephant foot in the equal number of solid layers at the top?  Those layers have no visible expansion.  For that matter, the walls print before the solid fill on the bottom layers, so they should be stuck to previous layer and at least partially cooled before the fill goes in.  
> **username_1**: Only if you have sufficiently many top layers. The first one sags roughly a whole layer, allowing for a lot of excess material in the subsequent ones.  
> **username_0**: @R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE I normally run 4 layers both top and bottom.  I suppose I could try cutting extrusion to 95% and see if it's better.  
> **username_0**: @Kezat As tagged, it's an Ender 3.   Not V2 or Pro; the cheap one.  
> **username_2**: That's why I prefer designs that print the parts separated, and I put them together after the print.  The hing could snap together in such a way that closing the clip pushes the hing together tighter.  
> **username_2**: Exactly, that's why it is only a comment.  
> **username_0**: @R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE I tried cutting bottom skin extrusion to 90%, and the skin wasn't sticking to the wall on the first layer.  I raised skin overlap to 50%, and the second layer fused at the hinge clearance again.  
> **username_0**: @R..GitHubSTOPHELPINGICE I changed filament and started getting a good print (before a thermal runaway halt -- apparently I need to recheck my thermistor seating).  Could PLA a couple weeks old (since unsealing) have absorbed enough moisture to start misbehaving?  
> **username_3**: Yes, Some blends of PLA can absorb moisture at a heightened rate compared to others. Have you solved your problem? If so, it's acceptable for you to make an answer for your own question!  
> **username_0**: Once I know it's solved, I'll do that.  There's still some expansion in layers 2 and 3, just not quite enough to lock the hinge on this bag clip.  
> **username_2**: Is your initial z-height too low?  
> **username_0**: I presume you mean the "zero height" before stepping up for layer 1?  I set this to effectively zero -- home, manually step up 0.075 mm, then level the bed with a .08 mm feeler gage blade.  First layer should then be 0.2 mm (that's what displays, anyway), and each layer after another 0.2 mm.  
> **username_0**: Woops, forgot to ping @PerryWebb above.  

---

## 0 answers

