<p>Here's an example of this sort of phenomenon:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Syllables that begin with unaspirated stops b, d, g, or affricates j, zh, z, and end in a nasal n or ng, as a rule don’t have second-tone forms.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Here's a <a href="http://pinyin.info/news/2011/the-where-and-why-of-missing-second-tones/" rel="noreferrer">more extensive explanation of how this came about</a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-25T18:13:28.457Z
Are there more like this?
juckele
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-25T19:00:00.563Z
Most chinese dialects have a different set of tones for "checked" or "closed" syllables. E.g., in [Cantonese](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese_phonology#Tones), tones 7, 8, and 9 only exist in syllables ending in -p, -t, and -k.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-27T02:59:04.517Z
@StumpyJoePete: While Cantonese checked-tone syllables can be numbered separately (7/8/9) for historical reasons, in practice, they are pronounced the same as tones 1/3/6, respectively. In addition, due to 變音, they may even be pronounced in tone 2.
Claw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-27T04:50:56.433Z
@Claw So they are! Thanks for the info. Anyhow, it's easy to find other examples: In Shanghainese, all of the tones in words with a voiced initial are lower than (although the same "shape" as) the corresponding tones in words with unvoiced initials.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-27T07:17:31.600Z
@StumpyJoePete: I suppose your Cantonese example isn't completely inapplicable. While the checked-tone syllables can be analyzed as having tones 1, 3, and 6, and can sometimes occur with 2, tones 4 and 5 are still disallowed; so you could say that Cantonese syllables ending in -p, -t, and -k never occur with tones 4 and 5.
Claw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-27T07:38:46.030Z
@Claw Thanks for fixing my example. Checked tones really work as a pretty broad class of these. Since middle chinese had 8 tone categories (阴平,阳平,阴上,阳上,阴去,阳去,阴入,阳入) and only 2 of them were "checked" (the two 入 categories), the checked tones will be in complementary distribution with _something_. Of course it depends on how the particular language's tone categories (and syllable structure--e.g., Mandarin has no -p,-t,-k syllables) have changed over time.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-23T16:45:46.527Z
2013-06-23T16:45:46.527Z
Stumpy Joe Pete
<p>The way I understand your question is: </p>

<p>When two characters have similar tones, like a third tone followed by a third tone, such as:</p>

<pre><code>你好 Nǐ hǎo
</code></pre>

<p>Mandarin speakers tend to find it easier to say if they pronounce the first character as <code>second tone</code>, like:</p>

<pre><code>Ní hǎo
</code></pre>

<p>Or two <code>fourth tones</code> will sound too harsh, like:</p>

<pre><code>不对 Bùduì
</code></pre>

<p>The <code>fourth tone</code> on 不 will change to second tone for easier pronunciation.</p>

<p>Let me know if I misunderstood your question.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-23T22:00:30.030Z
Thank you for your answer, but I think that of Stumpy Joe Pete is closer to the initial intention of it.
Manjusri
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-02-25T03:44:44.223Z
不 and 一 were initially 入 tone syllables as 意大利 demonstrates fourth tone can follow fourth tone
iopq
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-23T14:33:06.353Z
2013-06-23T14:33:06.353Z
user3871
<p>Are there any initial consonants/syllables in modern Chinese dialects which are incompatible with some tones? </p>

<p>Can certain tones occur only in certain syllables (that is, within open or close ones)?</p>

<p>I am referring mainly to 普通话 (or 華語), but any other dialect will do</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-22T09:37:00.377Z
Which Chinese dialect? And it may be better to add some examples.
Stan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-22T19:35:00.113Z
Yes, but it entirely depends on the dialect!
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-27T00:06:07.030Z
I removed the "any dialect" requirement because this makes the question overly broad and practically unanswerable by one person.
going
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-06-27T11:25:46.270Z
@xiaohouzi79 You have also deleted the reference to two dialects as well, which made the question no less broad and unanswerable by a.n.y. person. Besides, I don't suppose we have an excessive number of dialect speakers here.
Manjusri
<tones><word>
Are there any initial consonants/syllables in modern Chinese dialects which are incompatible with some tones?
# Are there any initial consonants/syllables in modern Chinese dialects which are incompatible with some tones?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2013-06-22)

Are there any initial consonants/syllables in modern Chinese dialects which are incompatible with some tones?

Can certain tones occur only in certain syllables (that is, within open or close ones)?

I am referring mainly to 普通话 (or 華語), but any other dialect will do

**Tags:** tones, word
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Which Chinese dialect? And it may be better to add some examples.  
> **username_2**: Yes, but it entirely depends on the dialect!  
> **username_3**: I removed the "any dialect" requirement because this makes the question overly broad and practically unanswerable by one person.  
> **username_0**: @xiaohouzi79 You have also deleted the reference to two dialects as well, which made the question no less broad and unanswerable by a.n.y. person. Besides, I don't suppose we have an excessive number of dialect speakers here.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2013-06-23. Score: 7

Here's an example of this sort of phenomenon:

> Syllables that begin with unaspirated stops b, d, g, or affricates j, zh, z, and end in a nasal n or ng, as a rule don’t have second-tone forms.

Here's a [more extensive explanation of how this came about](http://pinyin.info/news/2011/the-where-and-why-of-missing-second-tones/)

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: Are there more like this?  
> **username_2**: Most chinese dialects have a different set of tones for "checked" or "closed" syllables. E.g., in [Cantonese](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese_phonology#Tones), tones 7, 8, and 9 only exist in syllables ending in -p, -t, and -k.  
> **username_5**: @StumpyJoePete: While Cantonese checked-tone syllables can be numbered separately (7/8/9) for historical reasons, in practice, they are pronounced the same as tones 1/3/6, respectively. In addition, due to 變音, they may even be pronounced in tone 2.  
> **username_2**: @Claw So they are! Thanks for the info. Anyhow, it's easy to find other examples: In Shanghainese, all of the tones in words with a voiced initial are lower than (although the same "shape" as) the corresponding tones in words with unvoiced initials.  
> **username_5**: @StumpyJoePete: I suppose your Cantonese example isn't completely inapplicable. While the checked-tone syllables can be analyzed as having tones 1, 3, and 6, and can sometimes occur with 2, tones 4 and 5 are still disallowed; so you could say that Cantonese syllables ending in -p, -t, and -k never occur with tones 4 and 5.  
> **username_2**: @Claw Thanks for fixing my example. Checked tones really work as a pretty broad class of these. Since middle chinese had 8 tone categories (阴平,阳平,阴上,阳上,阴去,阳去,阴入,阳入) and only 2 of them were "checked" (the two 入 categories), the checked tones will be in complementary distribution with _something_. Of course it depends on how the particular language's tone categories (and syllable structure--e.g., Mandarin has no -p,-t,-k syllables) have changed over time.  

---

### Answer by username_6 on 2013-06-23. Score: 1

The way I understand your question is: 
When two characters have similar tones, like a third tone followed by a third tone, such as:
你好 Nǐ hǎo

Mandarin speakers tend to find it easier to say if they pronounce the first character as second tone, like:
Ní hǎo

Or two fourth tones will sound too harsh, like:
不对 Bùduì

The fourth tone on 不 will change to second tone for easier pronunciation.
Let me know if I misunderstood your question.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you for your answer, but I think that of Stumpy Joe Pete is closer to the initial intention of it.  
> **username_7**: 不 and 一 were initially 入 tone syllables as 意大利 demonstrates fourth tone can follow fourth tone  

---

