<p>I would like to say they are uncommon variants of common 成语 or just single case originated from some literature, which I think I am inventing such 成语 everyday. But it requires high level of classical Chinese skills to recognize.</p>

<p>Here I would show what I thought before I search for more info.</p>

<p>霁范永存</p>

<p>身正为范。范乃楷模之意。</p>

<p>又，光风霁月。霁乃晴明之意。</p>

<p>又，正气永存。</p>

<p>So I guess it means:  高节永为世人之楷模。</p>

<p>After searching: Exactly as what I thought.</p>

<p>亹亹不卷</p>

<p>亹亹文王，令闻不已！</p>

<p>勉励的文王啊，他的美名没有止尽。</p>

<p>又，孜孜不倦。</p>

<p>So I guess 卷 is the ancient variant (or origin?) of 倦. So this 成语 means 勤勉而不知疲倦.</p>

<p>After searching: 今作：娓娓不倦，多指谈话娓娓不绝，不知疲倦。</p>

<p>巾袖无光</p>

<p>巾，手帕。袖，衣袖。</p>

<p>又，黯淡无光。</p>

<p>不考虑比喻，似乎就是：衣服不起眼，或陈旧。不能推断意象。</p>

<p>After searching:形容穿戴的服装敝旧不华丽。孤例。</p>

<p>凿枘不入</p>

<p>This is obvious~</p>

<p>方枘圆凿。</p>

<p>They are the same.</p>

<p>After searching: Yes!</p>

<p>P.S.</p>

<p>It is not any four-character, concise word that can be categorized as 成语! A 成语 should be popular enough (at least in its time)!</p>

<p>彼素苑囿籍典，兀兀以穷；今闻鱼跃之喜，定不自胜，故延亲邀友，飨于庭园。倾以仪狄，馔以凤肝，奏以焦尾，焚以龙涎，欢歌笑语，春风踌躇。</p>

<p>See? I use A LOT OF four-character verse, but they are (mostly) not 成语, but my personal invention.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T17:11:03.150Z
2020-06-11T17:49:09.290Z
2020-06-11T17:49:09.290Z
Toosky Hierot
<p>It is weird to say if a chengyu is dead or not dead because chengyu are all from old  allusion. If it is in the chengyu dictionary, it will be there forever, once it is considered a chengyu, it will live forever.</p>

<p>But I think you mean if it is popular or famous. I would say no. You can find more than 50,000 chengyu in a big chengyu dictionary, only chengyu, 50,000.</p>

<p>How many chengyu does an average person can list out? No more than 50, I guess.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-13T04:57:19.767Z
For idioms that are starting with the character '一 ' alone, I can list over 80 of them –
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-13T08:25:26.857Z
Average, You are a guy answer language questions on forum, I would like to see a street test for this.
sfy
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-13T09:58:02.510Z
I only finished grade 8 Chinese education. My Chinese  knowledge is  average at best
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T17:54:59.163Z
2020-06-11T17:54:59.163Z
sfy
<p>Never heard of them. Dead Chengyu at most.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:00:20.983Z
2020-06-10T21:00:20.983Z
Siyi Deng
<p>I am learning some Chengyu but after a google search with inverted commas, only a very small number of usages are found:</p>

<p>266 results for <a href="http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?ccd=xlCAxX&amp;o=e0&amp;sec1=1&amp;op=sid=%22Z00000088976%22.&amp;v=-2" rel="nofollow noreferrer">霽範永存</a>;</p>

<p>720 results for <a href="http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&amp;searchid=Z00000161186" rel="nofollow noreferrer">亹亹不卷</a>;</p>

<p>817 results for <a href="http://%E5%B7%BE%E8%A2%96%E7%84%A1%E5%85%89" rel="nofollow noreferrer">巾袖無光</a>;</p>

<p>886 results for <a href="http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?ccd=Bmy8xr&amp;o=e0&amp;brwtyp=dispcont&amp;sec=sec1&amp;op=v&amp;view=114-8" rel="nofollow noreferrer">鑿枘不入</a>.</p>

<p>The small numbers seem to indicate most people do not use these Chengyus, and some people may not even understand them. </p>

<p>Are these Chengyus considered as outdated? Do most native speakers understand these Chengyus at all?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-09T21:16:49.760Z
I've never seen any of these four idioms. And I can't guess what they mean base on the wordings alone
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-09T22:16:21.420Z
I used [有嘴没舌](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%9C%89%E5%98%B4%E6%B2%A1%E8%88%8C/10943636?fr=aladdin) in my writing and my teacher didn't recognize it.  It gives me the impression that many chengyu found online are not recognizable.
Becky 李蓓
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-09T22:25:17.960Z
These four all show up in MOE, which gives me the idea that they might be all chiefly Taiwanese as well.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T00:50:07.910Z
@user3306356, 巾袖無光 was found in 唐．李朝威《柳毅傳》which should be Chinese instead of Taiwanese.
Zuriel
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T00:57:41.750Z
@Zuriel What I meant was, it seems like it could be more 国语 than 普通话.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T08:38:48.370Z
I asked a similar question in 2016: https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/20845/how-well-known-is-the-expression-%e6%9d%af%e5%bc%93%e8%9b%87%e5%bd%b1
// There does seem to be a spectrum of 成语, ranging from "commonly used" to "obsolete". Still, they're a goldmine for improving/fixing vocabulary.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T21:45:08.390Z
@user3306356, I guess even in modern Taiwan, only certain scholars of Chinese language know them.
Zuriel
<chengyu>
Do most native speakers understand these Chengyus at all? 霽範永存, 亹亹不卷, 巾袖無光, 鑿枘不入
# Do most native speakers understand these Chengyus at all? 霽範永存, 亹亹不卷, 巾袖無光, 鑿枘不入

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-06-09)

I am learning some Chengyu but after a google search with inverted commas, only a very small number of usages are found:

266 results for [霽範永存](http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?ccd=xlCAxX&o=e0&sec1=1&op=sid=%22Z00000088976%22.&v=-2);

720 results for [亹亹不卷](http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=Z00000161186);

817 results for [巾袖無光](http://%E5%B7%BE%E8%A2%96%E7%84%A1%E5%85%89);

886 results for [鑿枘不入](http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?ccd=Bmy8xr&o=e0&brwtyp=dispcont&sec=sec1&op=v&view=114-8).

The small numbers seem to indicate most people do not use these Chengyus, and some people may not even understand them.

Are these Chengyus considered as outdated? Do most native speakers understand these Chengyus at all?

**Tags:** chengyu
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I've never seen any of these four idioms. And I can't guess what they mean base on the wordings alone  
> **username_2**: I used [有嘴没舌](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%9C%89%E5%98%B4%E6%B2%A1%E8%88%8C/10943636?fr=aladdin) in my writing and my teacher didn't recognize it.  It gives me the impression that many chengyu found online are not recognizable.  
> **username_3**: These four all show up in MOE, which gives me the idea that they might be all chiefly Taiwanese as well.  
> **username_0**: @user3306356, 巾袖無光 was found in 唐．李朝威《柳毅傳》which should be Chinese instead of Taiwanese.  
> **username_3**: @Zuriel What I meant was, it seems like it could be more 国语 than 普通话.  
> **username_4**: I asked a similar question in 2016: https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/20845/how-well-known-is-the-expression-%e6%9d%af%e5%bc%93%e8%9b%87%e5%bd%b1 // There does seem to be a spectrum of 成语, ranging from "commonly used" to "obsolete". Still, they're a goldmine for improving/fixing vocabulary.  
> **username_0**: @user3306356, I guess even in modern Taiwan, only certain scholars of Chinese language know them.  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_5 on 2020-06-11. Score: 1

I would like to say they are uncommon variants of common 成语 or just single case originated from some literature, which I think I am inventing such 成语 everyday. But it requires high level of classical Chinese skills to recognize.

Here I would show what I thought before I search for more info.

霁范永存

身正为范。范乃楷模之意。

又，光风霁月。霁乃晴明之意。

又，正气永存。

So I guess it means: 高节永为世人之楷模。

After searching: Exactly as what I thought.

亹亹不卷

亹亹文王，令闻不已！

勉励的文王啊，他的美名没有止尽。

又，孜孜不倦。

So I guess 卷 is the ancient variant (or origin?) of 倦. So this 成语 means 勤勉而不知疲倦.

After searching: 今作：娓娓不倦，多指谈话娓娓不绝，不知疲倦。

巾袖无光

巾，手帕。袖，衣袖。

又，黯淡无光。

不考虑比喻，似乎就是：衣服不起眼，或陈旧。不能推断意象。

After searching:形容穿戴的服装敝旧不华丽。孤例。

凿枘不入

This is obvious~

方枘圆凿。

They are the same.

After searching: Yes!

P.S.

It is not any four-character, concise word that can be categorized as 成语! A 成语 should be popular enough (at least in its time)!

彼素苑囿籍典，兀兀以穷；今闻鱼跃之喜，定不自胜，故延亲邀友，飨于庭园。倾以仪狄，馔以凤肝，奏以焦尾，焚以龙涎，欢歌笑语，春风踌躇。

See? I use A LOT OF four-character verse, but they are (mostly) not 成语, but my personal invention.


---

### Answer by username_6 on 2020-06-11. Score: 0

It is weird to say if a chengyu is dead or not dead because chengyu are all from old allusion. If it is in the chengyu dictionary, it will be there forever, once it is considered a chengyu, it will live forever.

But I think you mean if it is popular or famous. I would say no. You can find more than 50,000 chengyu in a big chengyu dictionary, only chengyu, 50,000.

How many chengyu does an average person can list out? No more than 50, I guess.

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: For idioms that are starting with the character '一 ' alone, I can list over 80 of them –  
> **username_6**: Average, You are a guy answer language questions on forum, I would like to see a street test for this.  
> **username_1**: I only finished grade 8 Chinese education. My Chinese  knowledge is  average at best  

---

### Answer by username_7 on 2020-06-10. Score: -1

Never heard of them. Dead Chengyu at most.


---

