<p>In some dialects, zcs and gkh became jqx during Ming Dynasty. The other dialects kept their original pronunciation.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-03-11T02:10:26.457Z
2024-03-11T02:10:26.457Z
Phone
<p><a href="https://digitalcommons.oberlin.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1145&amp;context=honors" rel="noreferrer">Bu (2018, p. 75-76)</a> contests that changed to avoid confusion among minerals:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>These two characters are excellent examples of phono-semantic dissimilation because each has an potentially ambiguous homophonic counterpart: 鹽 (“salt”) and 炎 (“inflammation”). Coincidentally the four were once all pronounced [iɛnT2] in most
Mandarin dialects: 鉛 (lead), as a part of the 沿 phonological series, lost its -/w/- glide due to lexical diffusion among the series, so it turned out to be pronounced the same with 鹽 (salt). This caused a severe problem of two important minerals being homophonic and indistinguishable in conversations, so the pronunciation of 鉛 was
changed to [͡tɕʰiɛn], which is a palpably abrupt development since the fortis consonant[͡tɕʰ] cannot be derived from any phonemes in */jʷiɛn/. With the expansion to more
southern varieties having the same change (W-SZ and GA-NC), now the initial is [kʰ],
which only corresponds to MC 溪 */kʰ/ in W-SZ. Thus, the conclusion should be a
character with the rough pronunciation of [kʰ] + (-/j/- glide) + front vowel + nasal
substituted the original 鉛, a process called 訓讀 (morpheme substitution of the
same character, comparative to Japanese kun’yomi) – the new morpheme inherits all the old semantic sets entailed by the character 鉛, while the pronunciation took a
sudden and drastic shift to a completely irrelevant one. Hirayama (1998: 198) states
that [kʰam] is a morpheme meaning “白鐵皮 (lit. white iron skin, roughly slices of
white metal)” in Lichuan dialect of Gan, proposing that to be the substitute that has
gone through sound changes when it was spread into other varieties. Valid or not, the
fact that this morpheme with [kh
] initial does not share a common etymological root
with the original 鉛, therefore it was a dissimilative gesture to eliminate potential
confusion.</p>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<p>His work seems to be based off of that of Hisao Hirayama (平山久雄) who wrote a paper entitled:《普通话“铅”字读音的来源》:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/aiUHV.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/aiUHV.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a>
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/voRak.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/voRak.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a>
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/qjlyI.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/qjlyI.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a>
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/z2IlG.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/z2IlG.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a>
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/7SGGv.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/7SGGv.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a>
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/f6rjR.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/f6rjR.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-03-11T10:04:00.567Z
This is so interesting! It seems like this is quite a possible case that happened to the original word
Sierra Hotel
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-03-10T14:47:52.273Z
2024-03-10T15:01:56.133Z
2024-03-10T15:01:56.133Z
Mou某
<p>Why does this word for Lead 鉛 seem to have two different pronounciations?</p>
<p>In most Chinese Languages / Languages that borrowed this word ( Japanese / Korean ) they all read similar to the Middle Chinese reading ywen .</p>
<p>Examples: Xiang (Yenn) Hokkien (Yân/Iân) Cantonese (Yun⁴/Jyun⁴) Japanese Go-on (En) Korean ( Yon/Yeon/연 )</p>
<p>But in some languages they seem to read like a word with a K- sound</p>
<p>Examples: Mandarian ( Qian ) Gan ( Kan ) Jin ( Qie ) Wu ( Khe )</p>
<p>Is this the result of a sound change from Y to Ki? Or just the form of a different reading? I appreciate any answers to my question!</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-03-11T10:33:45.120Z
Note that those modern varieties that preserve the -m/-n distinction (e.g. Cantonese, Hakka, Hokkien, Teochew) retain the null initial for both (Standard Canto.: 鹽 jim4 vs 鉛 jyun4); many have a distinction in the vowel (Jian'ou variety of Min Bei: 鹽 îng vs 鉛 ṳ̂ing), and then you have coastal Min varieties where 鹽 derives from a different reflex of Old Chinese through a proto-Min initial *z- (Fuzhou Min Dong: 鹽 vernacular - sièng; literary - ièng; 鉛 - iòng).
Michaelyus
<etymology><topolect><phonology>
鉛 Reading Phonology
# 鉛 Reading Phonology

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-03-10)

Why does this word for Lead 鉛 seem to have two different pronounciations?

In most Chinese Languages / Languages that borrowed this word ( Japanese / Korean ) they all read similar to the Middle Chinese reading ywen .

Examples: Xiang (Yenn) Hokkien (Yân/Iân) Cantonese (Yun⁴/Jyun⁴) Japanese Go-on (En) Korean ( Yon/Yeon/연 )

But in some languages they seem to read like a word with a K- sound

Examples: Mandarian ( Qian ) Gan ( Kan ) Jin ( Qie ) Wu ( Khe )

Is this the result of a sound change from Y to Ki? Or just the form of a different reading? I appreciate any answers to my question!

**Tags:** etymology, topolect, phonology
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Note that those modern varieties that preserve the -m/-n distinction (e.g. Cantonese, Hakka, Hokkien, Teochew) retain the null initial for both (Standard Canto.: 鹽 jim4 vs 鉛 jyun4); many have a distinction in the vowel (Jian'ou variety of Min Bei: 鹽 îng vs 鉛 ṳ̂ing), and then you have coastal Min varieties where 鹽 derives from a different reflex of Old Chinese through a proto-Min initial *z- (Fuzhou Min Dong: 鹽 vernacular - sièng; literary - ièng; 鉛 - iòng).  

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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2024-03-10. Score: 5 | Accepted answer

[Bu (2018, p. 75-76)](https://digitalcommons.oberlin.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1145&context=honors) contests that changed to avoid confusion among minerals:

> These two characters are excellent examples of phono-semantic dissimilation because each has an potentially ambiguous homophonic counterpart: 鹽 (“salt”) and 炎 (“inflammation”). Coincidentally the four were once all pronounced [iɛnT2] in most
> Mandarin dialects: 鉛 (lead), as a part of the 沿 phonological series, lost its -/w/- glide due to lexical diffusion among the series, so it turned out to be pronounced the same with 鹽 (salt). This caused a severe problem of two important minerals being homophonic and indistinguishable in conversations, so the pronunciation of 鉛 was
> changed to [͡tɕʰiɛn], which is a palpably abrupt development since the fortis consonant[͡tɕʰ] cannot be derived from any phonemes in \*/jʷiɛn/. With the expansion to more
> southern varieties having the same change (W-SZ and GA-NC), now the initial is [kʰ],
> which only corresponds to MC 溪 \*/kʰ/ in W-SZ. Thus, the conclusion should be a
> character with the rough pronunciation of [kʰ] + (-/j/- glide) + front vowel + nasal
> substituted the original 鉛, a process called 訓讀 (morpheme substitution of the
> same character, comparative to Japanese kun’yomi) – the new morpheme inherits all the old semantic sets entailed by the character 鉛, while the pronunciation took a
> sudden and drastic shift to a completely irrelevant one. Hirayama (1998: 198) states
> that [kʰam] is a morpheme meaning “白鐵皮 (lit. white iron skin, roughly slices of
> white metal)” in Lichuan dialect of Gan, proposing that to be the substitute that has
> gone through sound changes when it was spread into other varieties. Valid or not, the
> fact that this morpheme with [kh
> ] initial does not share a common etymological root
> with the original 鉛, therefore it was a dissimilative gesture to eliminate potential
> confusion.

---

His work seems to be based off of that of Hisao Hirayama (平山久雄) who wrote a paper entitled:《普通话“铅”字读音的来源》:

> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/aiUHV.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/aiUHV.png)
> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/voRak.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/voRak.png)
> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/qjlyI.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/qjlyI.png)
> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/z2IlG.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/z2IlG.png)
> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/7SGGv.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/7SGGv.png)
> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/f6rjR.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/f6rjR.png)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: This is so interesting! It seems like this is quite a possible case that happened to the original word  

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### Answer by username_2 on 2024-03-11. Score: -1

In some dialects, zcs and gkh became jqx during Ming Dynasty. The other dialects kept their original pronunciation.


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