<p>Your definition of vowel clusters relates to terms 整体认读音节, 叠音词, 押韵. I'm not sure what you are really interested in, just to connect these terms to your definition in my best. By following these concepts you may find your actual need.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>In Pinyin, when the initials are Y or W you can't hear any &quot;consonants&quot; ...</p>
</blockquote>
<p>First of all, the term <strong>Whole Syllables of pinyin / 整体认读音节</strong> has overlaps with your definition. Some of them are y-/w-initial, some are not. There are actually 16 of them: &quot;zhi 、chi、shi、ri、zi、ci、si、yi、wu、yu、ye、yue、yuan、yin 、yun、ying&quot;. We suggest to treat such words in a whole rather than splitting into consonants and vowels, otherwise you may find difficulties to pronounce.</p>
<p>For your definition above, I found that 药丸 might be a counter example because they do pronounce the initial &quot;w&quot; by closing the mouth. 艳阳 also speaks differently from 安昂.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>When there's a string of such characters, let's call it a vowel cluster.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Secondly, if we remove the restriction of vowels, such cluster is denoted as <strong>叠音词</strong>. 叠音词 shouldn't be long because it's a 词 at first before 叠音. Of course one could handcraft consecutive words by the same pinyin, but I couldn't find any good examples with y-initials or w-initials. You provide 咿咿呀呀 as an example, but I'm not sure if you are interested in examples like 越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越要要音乐, which I created it just now.</p>
<p>Below I quote some 绕口令 examples with z-/s-/r-initials from <a href="https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/375138311" rel="nofollow noreferrer">zhihu</a>.</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>z-zh:</strong> 隔着窗户撕字纸，一次撕下横字纸，一次撕下竖字纸，是字纸撕字纸，不是字纸，不要胡乱撕一地纸（《撕字纸》）</p>
<p><strong>s-sh:</strong> 三山撑四水，四水绕三山，三山四水春常在，四水三山四时春（《三山撑四水》）</p>
<p><strong>sh:</strong> 石室诗士施史，嗜狮，誓食十狮，氏时时适市，氏视十狮，恃矢势，使是十狮逝世，氏拾是十狮尸，适石室，石室湿，氏使侍拭石室，石室拭，氏始试食十狮尸，食时，始识十狮尸实是十石狮尸，试释是事实（《施氏食狮史》）</p>
<p><strong>r:</strong> 夏日无日日亦热，冬日有日日亦寒，春日日出天渐暖，晒衣晒被晒褥单，秋日天高复云淡，遥看红日迫西山（《说日》）</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Last but not the least, <strong>Pursuing rhyme / 押韵</strong> are common in the field such as poems and songs. However they usually focus more on vowels rather than consonants. I think If you are interested in vowel clusters with y-/w-initials, you are actually looking for the rhyme scheme of a certain one or group of vowels. Taking 艳阳 as an example, the vowel group &quot;an+ang&quot; reminds me of some lyrics, which you may interest in.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>卮言春<strong>天</strong> 破碎秋<strong>千</strong> 踟蹰不如停止抱<strong>歉</strong> / 再过秋<strong>天</strong> 烂了蜿<strong>蜒</strong> 红灯你搁<strong>浅</strong>. ----<em>迟到千年</em> by Sodagreen.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T10:43:52.107Z
Thanks for this thoughtful and extended answer. I've updated my question in order to help explain what I was talking about.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T10:56:03.380Z
In your example 越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越要要音乐, I don't understand why there are two consequetive 要's towards the end. Is it a typo? (If the second 要 is there on purpose, then I don't understand why!)
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T19:02:31.973Z
I think the second 要 was a typo for 有 - 越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越**要有**音乐,
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-23T01:39:07.023Z
@ goPlayerJuggler Yeah you can replace the 2nd 要 by 有. 越要要 is composed of adv. 越要/the more + verb 要/有/need, but itself not a very common use.
zrsammy
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T04:49:35.743Z
2024-12-22T04:49:35.743Z
zrsammy
<p>汉语的发音以音节为一个单位，一个音节对应于一个汉字。一个音节有一个核心元音。汉语有六个元音，阿，哦，鹅，衣，乌，鱼。</p>
<p>字母Y和W出现在衣乌鱼的前面，是添加的不发音的字母。这样的音节只有元音，没有辅音。</p>
<p>艳阳，在音节 艳 Yan 和音节 阳 Yang 中，Y是辅音。或者叫做半辅音。</p>
<p>西安，在音节 西 Xi 和音节 安 An 中，i 是元音，A 是元音。A 的前面没有辅音，要和 i 的音分开说，不能连续。对比音节 先 xian, i 是滑音，也叫介音。它不是元音。这个音节中只有一个元音，a。</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-21T22:26:30.153Z
I don't think this answer has a lot to do with my question, so I will down vote it; sorry.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-21T22:48:06.257Z
I just implicitly and politely tell you the answer. There is no such thing called vowel cluster.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T00:08:35.490Z
I don't understand how you can affirm that when I gave a simple definition for it.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T00:20:48.100Z
after further thought, it seems to me I haven't succeeded in conveying to you what I mean by vowel cluster. Perhaps my definition isn't clear enough and needs to be improved.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T02:58:47.440Z
艷 and 陽 may not count as you say, but if 魚 is considered to be composed of only a 元音, then doesn't 餘裕 qualify as a vowel cluster?
tuo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T10:29:03.357Z
@tuo I will update my question to clarify, that should help. But in particular, both 余裕 and 艳阳 are vowel clusters, for the purpose of my question.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-21T08:49:54.360Z
2024-12-21T09:19:30.720Z
2024-12-21T09:19:30.720Z
PdotWang
<p>In Pinyin, when the initials are Y or W you can't hear any &quot;consonants&quot; (not sure what the correct term from phonetics is). This is also the case when there is no initial, like with 啊 a，熬 áo，额 é and so on.</p>
<p>When there's a string of such characters, let's call it a vowel cluster. So 艳阳 yànyáng is a vowel cluster; and the idiom 绰有余裕 chùoyǒuyúyù contains a vowel cluster of length three.</p>
<p>I'm interested in vowel clusters in general. I think they sound interesting, and also often amusing. And as I find them hard to &quot;parse&quot; I think they're an good exercise in oral comprehension.</p>
<ol>
<li>What are the longest examples of vowel clusters (in words, and idioms, and fixed expressions)?</li>
<li>Are there any examples (from speech - perhaps 相声？, or texts or poems or 歇后语 or ...) where vowel clusters are a notable feature?</li>
</ol>
<p>For question number one, there's 咿咿呀呀 of length four. I'm not aware of any other examples of length four but I suppose there will be lots.</p>
<p><strong>Edit (2024-12-22):</strong> here, by <em>vowel cluster</em>, I mean all strings of characters where the pinyin for each individual character does <em>not</em> start with b, c, d, f, g, h, j, k, l, m, n, p, q, r, s, t, x, or z. So the following are all vowel clusters:</p>
<ul>
<li>余裕</li>
<li>艳阳</li>
<li>有意无意</li>
<li>安昂</li>
<li>药丸</li>
<li>越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越要有音乐</li>
</ul>
<p>(the last three are examples given by zrsammy, in their helpful answer below; and 有意无意 is from tuo's comment below)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-20T13:42:31.180Z
Tongue twisters may yield greater results?
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-20T13:52:06.360Z
@Mou某, I'm not sure how to understand your comment. Do you mean this topic isn't interesting? Please feel free to downvote my question if you wish to.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-20T14:20:20.193Z
I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for. I have a feeling that some tongue twisters might fit? For instance, [黑化肥会挥发](https://rao.pcccp.cn/?mm=717229986837&nn=622820928263): "黑化肥发灰，灰化肥发黑，黑化肥发灰会挥发 [...]." Does that fit your criteria? Maybe too heavy on the consonants?
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-20T14:26:01.503Z
I enjoy tongue twisters generally and so I should look into Chinese ones - which I have neglected so far in my study of Chinese. I hadn't seen this one before; it's nice but it's not got any vowel clusters in it. Perhaps there are tongue twisters with vowel clusters? Something to look into.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-20T22:12:43.040Z
The longest expression with a vowel cluster I can think of is "啊啊啊啊啊..." when one feels the pain :)
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-21T22:27:41.623Z
@r13 yes! It's certainly a long one. But I was hoping for examples with a bit more "meat" ; with a bit more content.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T00:37:56.540Z
Never mind, just joking around.
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-12-22T01:45:10.530Z
有意無意 has four syllables although I think the initial *y* is considered a semi-vowel.
tuo
<vocabulary><pronunciation>
Vowel clusters - consecutive initial Y's and W's; or no initial
# Vowel clusters - consecutive initial Y's and W's; or no initial

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-12-20)

In Pinyin, when the initials are Y or W you can't hear any "consonants" (not sure what the correct term from phonetics is). This is also the case when there is no initial, like with 啊 a，熬 áo，额 é and so on.

When there's a string of such characters, let's call it a vowel cluster. So 艳阳 yànyáng is a vowel cluster; and the idiom 绰有余裕 chùoyǒuyúyù contains a vowel cluster of length three.

I'm interested in vowel clusters in general. I think they sound interesting, and also often amusing. And as I find them hard to "parse" I think they're an good exercise in oral comprehension.

1. What are the longest examples of vowel clusters (in words, and idioms, and fixed expressions)?
2. Are there any examples (from speech - perhaps 相声？, or texts or poems or 歇后语 or ...) where vowel clusters are a notable feature?

For question number one, there's 咿咿呀呀 of length four. I'm not aware of any other examples of length four but I suppose there will be lots.

**Edit (2024-12-22):** here, by *vowel cluster*, I mean all strings of characters where the pinyin for each individual character does *not* start with b, c, d, f, g, h, j, k, l, m, n, p, q, r, s, t, x, or z. So the following are all vowel clusters:

* 余裕
* 艳阳
* 有意无意
* 安昂
* 药丸
* 越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越要有音乐

(the last three are examples given by zrsammy, in their helpful answer below; and 有意无意 is from tuo's comment below)

**Tags:** vocabulary, pronunciation
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Tongue twisters may yield greater results?  
> **username_0**: @Mou某, I'm not sure how to understand your comment. Do you mean this topic isn't interesting? Please feel free to downvote my question if you wish to.  
> **username_1**: I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for. I have a feeling that some tongue twisters might fit? For instance, [黑化肥会挥发](https://rao.pcccp.cn/?mm=717229986837&nn=622820928263): "黑化肥发灰，灰化肥发黑，黑化肥发灰会挥发 [...]." Does that fit your criteria? Maybe too heavy on the consonants?  
> **username_0**: I enjoy tongue twisters generally and so I should look into Chinese ones - which I have neglected so far in my study of Chinese. I hadn't seen this one before; it's nice but it's not got any vowel clusters in it. Perhaps there are tongue twisters with vowel clusters? Something to look into.  
> **username_2**: The longest expression with a vowel cluster I can think of is "啊啊啊啊啊..." when one feels the pain :)  
> **username_0**: @r13 yes! It's certainly a long one. But I was hoping for examples with a bit more "meat" ; with a bit more content.  
> **username_2**: Never mind, just joking around.  
> **username_3**: 有意無意 has four syllables although I think the initial *y* is considered a semi-vowel.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2024-12-22. Score: 1

Your definition of vowel clusters relates to terms 整体认读音节, 叠音词, 押韵. I'm not sure what you are really interested in, just to connect these terms to your definition in my best. By following these concepts you may find your actual need.

> In Pinyin, when the initials are Y or W you can't hear any "consonants" ...

First of all, the term **Whole Syllables of pinyin / 整体认读音节** has overlaps with your definition. Some of them are y-/w-initial, some are not. There are actually 16 of them: "zhi 、chi、shi、ri、zi、ci、si、yi、wu、yu、ye、yue、yuan、yin 、yun、ying". We suggest to treat such words in a whole rather than splitting into consonants and vowels, otherwise you may find difficulties to pronounce.

For your definition above, I found that 药丸 might be a counter example because they do pronounce the initial "w" by closing the mouth. 艳阳 also speaks differently from 安昂.

> When there's a string of such characters, let's call it a vowel cluster.

Secondly, if we remove the restriction of vowels, such cluster is denoted as **叠音词**. 叠音词 shouldn't be long because it's a 词 at first before 叠音. Of course one could handcraft consecutive words by the same pinyin, but I couldn't find any good examples with y-initials or w-initials. You provide 咿咿呀呀 as an example, but I'm not sure if you are interested in examples like 越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越要要音乐, which I created it just now.

Below I quote some 绕口令 examples with z-/s-/r-initials from [zhihu](https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/375138311).

> **z-zh:** 隔着窗户撕字纸，一次撕下横字纸，一次撕下竖字纸，是字纸撕字纸，不是字纸，不要胡乱撕一地纸（《撕字纸》）
>
> **s-sh:** 三山撑四水，四水绕三山，三山四水春常在，四水三山四时春（《三山撑四水》）
>
> **sh:** 石室诗士施史，嗜狮，誓食十狮，氏时时适市，氏视十狮，恃矢势，使是十狮逝世，氏拾是十狮尸，适石室，石室湿，氏使侍拭石室，石室拭，氏始试食十狮尸，食时，始识十狮尸实是十石狮尸，试释是事实（《施氏食狮史》）
>
> **r:** 夏日无日日亦热，冬日有日日亦寒，春日日出天渐暖，晒衣晒被晒褥单，秋日天高复云淡，遥看红日迫西山（《说日》）

Last but not the least, **Pursuing rhyme / 押韵** are common in the field such as poems and songs. However they usually focus more on vowels rather than consonants. I think If you are interested in vowel clusters with y-/w-initials, you are actually looking for the rhyme scheme of a certain one or group of vowels. Taking 艳阳 as an example, the vowel group "an+ang" reminds me of some lyrics, which you may interest in.

> 卮言春**天** 破碎秋**千** 踟蹰不如停止抱**歉** / 再过秋**天** 烂了蜿**蜒** 红灯你搁**浅**. ----*迟到千年* by Sodagreen.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for this thoughtful and extended answer. I've updated my question in order to help explain what I was talking about.  
> **username_0**: In your example 越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越要要音乐, I don't understand why there are two consequetive 要's towards the end. Is it a typo? (If the second 要 is there on purpose, then I don't understand why!)  
> **username_2**: I think the second 要 was a typo for 有 - 越有音乐越要摇，越要摇越**要有**音乐,  
> **username_4**: @ goPlayerJuggler Yeah you can replace the 2nd 要 by 有. 越要要 is composed of adv. 越要/the more + verb 要/有/need, but itself not a very common use.  

---

### Answer by username_5 on 2024-12-21. Score: -1

汉语的发音以音节为一个单位，一个音节对应于一个汉字。一个音节有一个核心元音。汉语有六个元音，阿，哦，鹅，衣，乌，鱼。

字母Y和W出现在衣乌鱼的前面，是添加的不发音的字母。这样的音节只有元音，没有辅音。

艳阳，在音节 艳 Yan 和音节 阳 Yang 中，Y是辅音。或者叫做半辅音。

西安，在音节 西 Xi 和音节 安 An 中，i 是元音，A 是元音。A 的前面没有辅音，要和 i 的音分开说，不能连续。对比音节 先 xian, i 是滑音，也叫介音。它不是元音。这个音节中只有一个元音，a。

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I don't think this answer has a lot to do with my question, so I will down vote it; sorry.  
> **username_5**: I just implicitly and politely tell you the answer. There is no such thing called vowel cluster.  
> **username_0**: I don't understand how you can affirm that when I gave a simple definition for it.  
> **username_0**: after further thought, it seems to me I haven't succeeded in conveying to you what I mean by vowel cluster. Perhaps my definition isn't clear enough and needs to be improved.  
> **username_3**: 艷 and 陽 may not count as you say, but if 魚 is considered to be composed of only a 元音, then doesn't 餘裕 qualify as a vowel cluster?  
> **username_0**: @tuo I will update my question to clarify, that should help. But in particular, both 余裕 and 艳阳 are vowel clusters, for the purpose of my question.  

---

