<p>Simply put, there are no tone sandhi rules for when words change from their citation tone to the neutral tone. The appearance of the neutral tone is morphologically motivated, not phonologically motivated &mdash; in other words, the tone change is not governed by the sounds of the surrounding words. Because the definition of sandhi is phonologically-motivated sound changes, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_sandhi#What_is_and_is_not_tone_sandhi">the appearance of the neutral tone is not tone sandhi</a>.</p>

<p>Certain words simply have the neutral tone because that is how their speakers have become used to saying them; for instance, many words that are pronounced with the neutral tone in Mandarin as spoken on the Mainland are not pronounced with the neutral tone in Mandarin as spoken in Taiwan. One example is 东西, which is typically pronounced as dōngxī in Taiwain rather than dōngxi. The phenomenon and its unpredictability is similar to the appearance of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhua">erhua (儿化)</a> in Mandarin.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-04T01:59:42.953Z
If anyone is interested, here's a recent dissertation on the neutral tone in the Mandarin spoken in Taiwan:  http://www.ling.hawaii.edu/graduate/Dissertations/KarenHuangFinal.pdf
neubau
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T18:14:46.640Z
2014-02-03T18:14:46.640Z
Claw
<p>This is a followup to <a href="https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/5736">my earlier question about the tones in the word "豆腐"</a>:</p>

<p>On their own "豆" and "腐" have the tones 4 and 3: <code>dòu</code>, <code>fǔ</code></p>

<p>As a two-syllable / two-character word, <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%B1%86%E8%85%90#Mandarin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">"豆腐"</a> has tone 4 but "fu" has tone 0 / tone 5 / neutral tone: <code>dòufu</code>. At least according to the English Wiktionary and Google Translate.</p>

<p>Is this a normal tone sandhi rule that fourth tone followed by third tone becomes fourth tone followed by neutral tone?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T06:23:29.960Z
No it is not limited to "4 3" tone words; examples include 东西 dōngxi, 父亲 fùqin, 耳朵 ěrduo. See this question: http://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/5484/non-standard-tone-pronunciation
congusbongus
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T06:23:40.947Z
No. Counterexamples: 地址、用品、市场...
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T06:24:44.687Z
Hmm this makes my previous question really interesting then! What's going on with "doufu"?!
hippietrail
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T06:49:21.657Z
I will of course accept an answer of "no" so if either previous commenter or anyone else wants to submit an answer, I'll choose the nicest one and you'll get some reputation points (-:
hippietrail
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T10:58:33.163Z
I don't recall that we read "豆腐" as dòufu, you probably didn't hear it right, I live in Taiwan, same as you.
ChaoYang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T11:02:28.790Z
@user3226059: I'm not talking about how I hear it, but how it is listed by both English Wiktionary and Google Translate. I better add that to my question. Sorry about that!
hippietrail
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T14:49:42.037Z
Changes of morphemes in Mandarin to the neutral tone are _not_ examples of [tone sandhi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_sandhi#What%20is%20and%20is%20not%20tone%20sandhi).
杨以轩
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T16:30:26.127Z
Neutral tone is a regional thing... You hear it much less often in southern China
user58955
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-03T22:34:25.040Z
It doesn't have something to do with this discussion, does it? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:%E8%B1%86%E8%85%90
deutschZuid
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-05T07:18:54.303Z
@deutschZuid: Yes that's also my discussion on another forum. I've been a Wiktionary contributor for about twelve years, but not as a Chinese specialist. I'm looking for answers on both fronts (-:
hippietrail
<mandarin><tones><sandhi>
Is there a tone sandhi rule that "4 3" changes to "4 0"?
# Is there a tone sandhi rule that "4 3" changes to "4 0"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-02-03)

This is a followup to [my earlier question about the tones in the word "豆腐"](https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/5736):

On their own "豆" and "腐" have the tones 4 and 3: `dòu`, `fǔ`

As a two-syllable / two-character word, ["豆腐"](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%B1%86%E8%85%90#Mandarin) has tone 4 but "fu" has tone 0 / tone 5 / neutral tone: `dòufu`. At least according to the English Wiktionary and Google Translate.

Is this a normal tone sandhi rule that fourth tone followed by third tone becomes fourth tone followed by neutral tone?

**Tags:** mandarin, tones, sandhi
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: No it is not limited to "4 3" tone words; examples include 东西 dōngxi, 父亲 fùqin, 耳朵 ěrduo. See this question: http://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/5484/non-standard-tone-pronunciation  
> **username_2**: No. Counterexamples: 地址、用品、市场...  
> **username_0**: Hmm this makes my previous question really interesting then! What's going on with "doufu"?!  
> **username_0**: I will of course accept an answer of "no" so if either previous commenter or anyone else wants to submit an answer, I'll choose the nicest one and you'll get some reputation points (-:  
> **username_3**: I don't recall that we read "豆腐" as dòufu, you probably didn't hear it right, I live in Taiwan, same as you.  
> **username_0**: @user3226059: I'm not talking about how I hear it, but how it is listed by both English Wiktionary and Google Translate. I better add that to my question. Sorry about that!  
> **username_4**: Changes of morphemes in Mandarin to the neutral tone are _not_ examples of [tone sandhi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_sandhi#What%20is%20and%20is%20not%20tone%20sandhi).  
> **username_5**: Neutral tone is a regional thing... You hear it much less often in southern China  
> **username_6**: It doesn't have something to do with this discussion, does it? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:%E8%B1%86%E8%85%90  
> **username_0**: @deutschZuid: Yes that's also my discussion on another forum. I've been a Wiktionary contributor for about twelve years, but not as a Chinese specialist. I'm looking for answers on both fronts (-:  

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_7 on 2014-02-03. Score: 7 | Accepted answer

Simply put, there are no tone sandhi rules for when words change from their citation tone to the neutral tone. The appearance of the neutral tone is morphologically motivated, not phonologically motivated — in other words, the tone change is not governed by the sounds of the surrounding words. Because the definition of sandhi is phonologically-motivated sound changes, [the appearance of the neutral tone is not tone sandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_sandhi#What_is_and_is_not_tone_sandhi).

Certain words simply have the neutral tone because that is how their speakers have become used to saying them; for instance, many words that are pronounced with the neutral tone in Mandarin as spoken on the Mainland are not pronounced with the neutral tone in Mandarin as spoken in Taiwan. One example is 东西, which is typically pronounced as dōngxī in Taiwain rather than dōngxi. The phenomenon and its unpredictability is similar to the appearance of [erhua (儿化)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhua) in Mandarin.

> **Comments:**
> **username_8**: If anyone is interested, here's a recent dissertation on the neutral tone in the Mandarin spoken in Taiwan:  http://www.ling.hawaii.edu/graduate/Dissertations/KarenHuangFinal.pdf  

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