<p>Both 在桌子的上面 and 在桌子上面 denote the same meaning. The difference between them is the former is verbose. </p>

<p>In Chinese writing and speaking, in order to be succinct, we try to avoid to use more 的s, especially in a long sentence. So, people tend to drop it whenever they feel it's not necessary. That's why you have seen 在桌子上面 is much more than 在桌子的上面. </p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T01:54:58.600Z
The 的 structure is not completely useless, for example: "在桌子(的)左上角" (upper left corner- a noun) is more clear than  "在桌子左上角", it emphasize the exact location 左上角 instead of 桌子 itself
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T03:20:04.083Z
@TangHo but 在桌子上面 is far more common than  在桌子的上面.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T04:06:26.270Z
@TangHo for example, 我的包在我家的桌子的上面; we usually put sentence like: 我包在我家桌子上.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T04:13:35.673Z
I do not disagree the [noun + preposition] structure "在桌子上"  is more common and cleaner than the [preposition + noun + possessive marker + noun] structure "在桌子的上面" . Which only serves to emphasize the exact location "上面"  (the surface)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T04:20:18.730Z
@TangHo ok, but for the emphasis purpose, we just stress the word 桌子 in spoken, instead of adding a 的 most of time. For example, 我包在桌子上！不在椅子上！
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T00:11:45.067Z
2018-08-18T00:11:45.067Z
dan
<ul>
<li><p>&quot;的&quot; is a possessive marker like ('s) in English.</p>
</li>
<li><p>&quot;桌子的&quot; = (table's) e.g &quot;桌子的顏色&quot; (the color of the table), in which, the noun &quot;桌子&quot; possess the noun &quot;顏色&quot;</p>
</li>
<li><p>&quot;在 ~ 上面&quot; (<strong>on</strong>/ on top of/ above) is a preposition. The phrase &quot;在(桌子)上面&quot; (noun + preposition), doesn't require the possessive marker &quot;的&quot; because there is no noun to be possessed.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>&quot;在桌子的上面&quot; (on the surface of the table) [preposition + noun + possessive marker + noun] <em>上面 here is a noun that means  'surface/ top'</em></p>
<p>&quot;在桌子上面&quot; (on the table) [noun + preposition] <em>上面 here is a preposition means 'above'</em></p>
<p>&quot;在桌子上&quot; (on the table) [ noun + preposition]</p>
<p>&quot;在桌上&quot; (on the table) [ noun + preposition]</p>
<p>Example of difference between with or without 的:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>書(<strong>在</strong>)桌子(<strong>上面</strong>) = the book is (<strong>on</strong>) the table</p>
<p>書在桌子(的)<em>上面</em> = the book is on the table('s) <em>surface/top (noun)</em></p>
<p><em>In the first sentence, &quot;在 ~ 上面&quot;(on top of) is the preposition; in the second sentence, &quot;在&quot; (on/ at) is the only preposition, while &quot;上面&quot; is a noun that the noun &quot;桌子&quot; possessed</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Usage of 的 as an 'adjective marker'</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;桌子上的書&quot; (the book on the table)</p>
</blockquote>
<ul>
<li><p>&quot;桌子上&quot;(on the table) is a noun + preposition</p>
</li>
<li><p>的 here functions as an 'adjective marker' that turns &quot;桌子上&quot; into an 'adjectival phrase': &quot;桌子上的&quot; which describes the noun &quot;書&quot; (the book <em>that's on the table</em>)</p>
</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-17T23:00:45.323Z
Thanks for the explanation of the construction without 的.  This matches other grammar resources.  However, examples of the construction *with* 的 exist, which I would also like to understand.
Ben Jackson
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-17T23:06:50.860Z
@Ben Jackson please see my edition
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-17T22:57:34.373Z
2018-08-17T23:25:40.200Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
Tang Ho
<p>A Google search of both exact phrases turns up both:</p>

<ul>
<li>在桌子上面</li>
<li>在桌子<strong>的</strong>上面</li>
</ul>

<p>There are about 10x more <strong>without</strong> the <strong>的</strong>.</p>

<p>Do they mean the same thing?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T05:07:18.427Z
In a daily conversation scenario they do meaning the same thing. The accepted answer pointed out that the latter one emphases "being on the *surface* of the table", but in daily conversations actually, nobody would really pay attention to such subtlety, and would take both for the same meaning "being on the table".
Vim
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T09:51:50.043Z
meaning of "both exact phrases turns up both" obscure, as users understand the two phrases are searched, then the search result is again both?
user6065
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-18T15:47:40.603Z
@user6065 If you search for a "quoted string" on Google you will only get results for that *exact* string. So I used that to count how many times each phrase was found.  A Google search of (both exact phrases => "在桌子上面" and "在桌子的上面") turns up (gives results for) both.
Ben Jackson
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-19T00:31:41.030Z
第二个强调上面，比如，有个人，the man can be on it or in it's painting.
Daniel Yang
<grammar><usage>
Is it 在桌子上面 or 在桌子的上面?
# Is it 在桌子上面 or 在桌子的上面?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-08-17)

A Google search of both exact phrases turns up both:

* 在桌子上面
* 在桌子**的**上面

There are about 10x more **without** the **的**.

Do they mean the same thing?

**Tags:** grammar, usage
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: In a daily conversation scenario they do meaning the same thing. The accepted answer pointed out that the latter one emphases "being on the *surface* of the table", but in daily conversations actually, nobody would really pay attention to such subtlety, and would take both for the same meaning "being on the table".  
> **username_2**: meaning of "both exact phrases turns up both" obscure, as users understand the two phrases are searched, then the search result is again both?  
> **username_0**: @user6065 If you search for a "quoted string" on Google you will only get results for that *exact* string. So I used that to count how many times each phrase was found.  A Google search of (both exact phrases => "在桌子上面" and "在桌子的上面") turns up (gives results for) both.  
> **username_3**: 第二个强调上面，比如，有个人，the man can be on it or in it's painting.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_5 on 2018-08-17. Score: 4 | Accepted answer

* "的" is a possessive marker like ('s) in English.
* "桌子的" = (table's) e.g "桌子的顏色" (the color of the table), in which, the noun "桌子" possess the noun "顏色"
* "在 ~ 上面" (**on**/ on top of/ above) is a preposition. The phrase "在(桌子)上面" (noun + preposition), doesn't require the possessive marker "的" because there is no noun to be possessed.

"在桌子的上面" (on the surface of the table) [preposition + noun + possessive marker + noun] *上面 here is a noun that means 'surface/ top'*

"在桌子上面" (on the table) [noun + preposition] *上面 here is a preposition means 'above'*

"在桌子上" (on the table) [ noun + preposition]

"在桌上" (on the table) [ noun + preposition]

Example of difference between with or without 的:

> 書(**在**)桌子(**上面**) = the book is (**on**) the table
>
> 書在桌子(的)*上面* = the book is on the table('s) *surface/top (noun)*
>
> *In the first sentence, "在 ~ 上面"(on top of) is the preposition; in the second sentence, "在" (on/ at) is the only preposition, while "上面" is a noun that the noun "桌子" possessed*

Usage of 的 as an 'adjective marker'

> "桌子上的書" (the book on the table)

* "桌子上"(on the table) is a noun + preposition
* 的 here functions as an 'adjective marker' that turns "桌子上" into an 'adjectival phrase': "桌子上的" which describes the noun "書" (the book *that's on the table*)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for the explanation of the construction without 的.  This matches other grammar resources.  However, examples of the construction *with* 的 exist, which I would also like to understand.  
> **username_5**: @Ben Jackson please see my edition  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2018-08-18. Score: 0

Both 在桌子的上面 and 在桌子上面 denote the same meaning. The difference between them is the former is verbose.

In Chinese writing and speaking, in order to be succinct, we try to avoid to use more 的s, especially in a long sentence. So, people tend to drop it whenever they feel it's not necessary. That's why you have seen 在桌子上面 is much more than 在桌子的上面.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: The 的 structure is not completely useless, for example: "在桌子(的)左上角" (upper left corner- a noun) is more clear than  "在桌子左上角", it emphasize the exact location 左上角 instead of 桌子 itself  
> **username_4**: @TangHo but 在桌子上面 is far more common than  在桌子的上面.  
> **username_4**: @TangHo for example, 我的包在我家的桌子的上面; we usually put sentence like: 我包在我家桌子上.  
> **username_5**: I do not disagree the [noun + preposition] structure "在桌子上"  is more common and cleaner than the [preposition + noun + possessive marker + noun] structure "在桌子的上面" . Which only serves to emphasize the exact location "上面"  (the surface)  
> **username_4**: @TangHo ok, but for the emphasis purpose, we just stress the word 桌子 in spoken, instead of adding a 的 most of time. For example, 我包在桌子上！不在椅子上！  

---

