<p>了 le is a perennial problem. What is it for?</p>
<p>In your sentence you may happily omit 了, that will not affect the meaning in any way!</p>
<p>我学汉语的时间不短了，至少有十年了。<br />
I've been studying Chinese for a long time, at least ten years.</p>
<p>Personally, I think this kind of 了 is just for emphasis. This 了 emphasizes what you have already said.</p>
<p>了 has at least two sounds, maybe 3: le liǎo liào</p>
<p>不了： without end: 一天到晚忙个不了<br />
不了： can't: 谁说我干不了这个？</p>
<p>A tricky customer, this 了！</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-20T08:19:33.667Z
Quote:- "了 le is a perennial problem. What is it for?" The reason is because in ancient Chinese there was no punctuation marks, like "?", and so to frame a question, you need "吗", and so to write "吗?", the question mark is actually a redundancy because the "吗" served as the "question mark" then. And without past tenses, like "did", "done", "had", "understood", you need "了" to show an action has been done, or something is already in the past. So, 了 is not a tricky customer if we know the ancient function it served.
Wayne Cheah
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-20T08:34:49.360Z
Got it?, "customer", "served"? :)
Wayne Cheah
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-20T22:53:47.227Z
Spoken language, even today, in the 21st century, also lacks punctuation marks! You mean 了 in 不短了 marks the Past Tense of 短？? What exactly is the ancient function  了 served? Tell us please.
Pedroski
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-21T14:27:30.310Z
Spoken language and written language both have their own unique auxiliary "signs" to convey the meaning besides the "words". In written form, you could not keep the tones (not just the 4 tones of Chinese), the facial expression, etc. Therefore, a certain "redundancy" is critical.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-20T06:38:53.183Z
2023-05-20T06:38:53.183Z
Pedroski
<p>@Pedroski, as my comment is lengthy, I take the liberty of saying it in the answer section.</p>
<p>It would of course sound strange, if we use 短了 as the &quot;past tense&quot; of physical length, (which I believe you have in mind), but 不短了 is also used to depict a &quot;shortening of an activity over time in the past&quot;, such as 他当年修为的体力已经不短了.</p>
<p>Quote:- &quot;You mean 了 in 不短了 marks the Past Tense of 短?'&quot;</p>
<p>No, the 不短了 in the sentence above does not mark the Past Tense of 短, but the whole of the &quot;short period of the past&quot; of the sentence when read as a whole and not just reading 不短了 and ignoring the rest of the sentence.</p>
<p>I don't of course profess expertise in ancient Chinese, but my point in the original comment was just to point out that &quot;了&quot;, like &quot;吗&quot;  were used in Chinese writings to function as &quot;past tense marker&quot; and punctuation mark before the common introduction of Western punctuations marks, which Chinese writings in the past did not have. It was therefore a follow up on your comment &quot;了 le is a perennial problem&quot;</p>
<p>I therefore merely commented <em>why</em> it is a perennial problem. Which you may not agree of course.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, as could be seen in my original comment which is that &quot;了&quot; caused problems, (mostly to new learners), because of its function, among others, to show an action has been done, or something had already happened in the past, in place of &quot;tenses&quot;, (a verb-based method used to indicate the time, and sometimes the continuation or completeness, of an action or state in relation to the time of speaking), which Chinese, ancient or modern, do not have.</p>
<p>Thus learners brought up in languages with tenses and / or punctuation marks may need to &quot;re-orientate&quot; themselves to a language which is essentially narrative / contextual based in order to &quot;overcome&quot; the &quot;perennial problem&quot;</p>
<p>Finally, your comment &quot;Spoken language, even today, in the 21st century, also lacks punctuation marks!&quot;</p>
<p>Yes, which was why I was careful in my comment to say &quot;and so to <em><strong>write</strong></em> &quot;吗?&quot;, the question mark is actually a redundancy&quot;</p>
<p>And, as you said, &quot;Spoken language, even today, in the 21st century, also lacks punctuation marks!&quot;, what then do people say in spoken language in place of punctuations?, they say things like, &quot;really&quot;, &quot;you don't say&quot;, &quot;is it&quot;, &quot;damn&quot;, &quot;Oh my god&quot;, &quot;W..T..F..&quot;</p>
<p>In conclusion, &quot;了&quot; is therefore not a &quot;past tense&quot; of anything, but a &quot;past tense <em>marker</em>&quot;, that is, the past tense of regular verbs made by adding -d or -ed to the base form of the verb, which is not possible in Chinese, ancient or modern, hence the use of &quot;了&quot;.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-21T23:15:45.000Z
From the little I know about Classical Chinese, I see they use 也 a lot!, which totally resembles Yeah! 孔子 was a dude!
Pedroski
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-22T02:17:13.310Z
也 man!  I believe 孔 子 was a Duke.
Wayne Cheah
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-21T03:04:06.717Z
2023-05-21T08:32:43.523Z
2023-05-21T08:32:43.523Z
Wayne Cheah
<p>Just one explanation for your question: &quot;Regarding the 2nd 了, I guess it indicates the speaker's ongoing state of studying Chinese. This idea of ongoingness has been derived from here (link)&quot;.</p>
<p>I brought the examples from that link.</p>
<p>你 睡 了 一 天 了。</p>
<p>他 在 北京 住 了 两 年 了。</p>
<p>这 个 会，他们 开 了 两 个 小时 了。</p>
<p>我 在 这儿 等 了 半 个 小时 了。</p>
<p>他们 在 酒吧 待 了 一 个 晚上 了。</p>
<p>Between the two &quot;了&quot;, there is a time duration in all of the examples with no exception.</p>
<p>Applying to the original question, you can say,</p>
<p>汉语我学了十年了。</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-21T14:06:55.383Z
2023-05-21T14:06:55.383Z
PdotWang
<blockquote>
<p>我学汉语的时间不短了，至少有十年了。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>My translation : <em>Time which I've been spending for learning Chinese is not short (already). At least 10 years.</em></p>
<p>I guess that the first 了 indicates the alreadiness of time which have been spent is not short.</p>
<p>Regarding the 2nd 了, I guess that it serves as functioning indicating the the speaker's ongoing state of studying Chinese. This my idea of ongoingness has been derived from <a href="https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Expressing_ongoing_duration_with_double_%22le%22" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here</a>.</p>
<p>I want to know the true meanings of these 2 了ｓ which are used here.</p>
<p>BTW I've translated 有 here as &quot;There is/are&quot;.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-20T12:50:32.537Z
I would rephrase the sentence to "我学了十年汉语, 不是短時間了/時間不算短了". The first 了 clearly indicates the completion of the action associated with the verb; the second 了 is a mood/feeling indicator, it either indicates the sigh of the time that has been spent or emphasizes the duration of learning) wasn't short".
r13
<grammar>
Comprehension of 2 了s which are used inside 我学汉语的时间不短了，至少有十年了。
# Comprehension of 2 了s which are used inside 我学汉语的时间不短了，至少有十年了。

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-05-20)

> 我学汉语的时间不短了，至少有十年了。

My translation : *Time which I've been spending for learning Chinese is not short (already). At least 10 years.*

I guess that the first 了 indicates the alreadiness of time which have been spent is not short.

Regarding the 2nd 了, I guess that it serves as functioning indicating the the speaker's ongoing state of studying Chinese. This my idea of ongoingness has been derived from [here](https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Expressing_ongoing_duration_with_double_%22le%22).

I want to know the true meanings of these 2 了ｓ which are used here.

BTW I've translated 有 here as "There is/are".

**Tags:** grammar
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I would rephrase the sentence to "我学了十年汉语, 不是短時間了/時間不算短了". The first 了 clearly indicates the completion of the action associated with the verb; the second 了 is a mood/feeling indicator, it either indicates the sigh of the time that has been spent or emphasizes the duration of learning) wasn't short".  

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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2023-05-20. Score: 0 | Accepted answer

了 le is a perennial problem. What is it for?

In your sentence you may happily omit 了, that will not affect the meaning in any way!

我学汉语的时间不短了，至少有十年了。  
I've been studying Chinese for a long time, at least ten years.

Personally, I think this kind of 了 is just for emphasis. This 了 emphasizes what you have already said.

了 has at least two sounds, maybe 3: le liǎo liào

不了： without end: 一天到晚忙个不了  
不了： can't: 谁说我干不了这个？

A tricky customer, this 了！

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: Quote:- "了 le is a perennial problem. What is it for?" The reason is because in ancient Chinese there was no punctuation marks, like "?", and so to frame a question, you need "吗", and so to write "吗?", the question mark is actually a redundancy because the "吗" served as the "question mark" then. And without past tenses, like "did", "done", "had", "understood", you need "了" to show an action has been done, or something is already in the past. So, 了 is not a tricky customer if we know the ancient function it served.  
> **username_3**: Got it?, "customer", "served"? :)  
> **username_2**: Spoken language, even today, in the 21st century, also lacks punctuation marks! You mean 了 in 不短了 marks the Past Tense of 短？? What exactly is the ancient function  了 served? Tell us please.  
> **username_4**: Spoken language and written language both have their own unique auxiliary "signs" to convey the meaning besides the "words". In written form, you could not keep the tones (not just the 4 tones of Chinese), the facial expression, etc. Therefore, a certain "redundancy" is critical.  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2023-05-21. Score: 1

@Pedroski, as my comment is lengthy, I take the liberty of saying it in the answer section.

It would of course sound strange, if we use 短了 as the "past tense" of physical length, (which I believe you have in mind), but 不短了 is also used to depict a "shortening of an activity over time in the past", such as 他当年修为的体力已经不短了.

Quote:- "You mean 了 in 不短了 marks the Past Tense of 短?'"

No, the 不短了 in the sentence above does not mark the Past Tense of 短, but the whole of the "short period of the past" of the sentence when read as a whole and not just reading 不短了 and ignoring the rest of the sentence.

I don't of course profess expertise in ancient Chinese, but my point in the original comment was just to point out that "了", like "吗" were used in Chinese writings to function as "past tense marker" and punctuation mark before the common introduction of Western punctuations marks, which Chinese writings in the past did not have. It was therefore a follow up on your comment "了 le is a perennial problem"

I therefore merely commented *why* it is a perennial problem. Which you may not agree of course.

Be that as it may, as could be seen in my original comment which is that "了" caused problems, (mostly to new learners), because of its function, among others, to show an action has been done, or something had already happened in the past, in place of "tenses", (a verb-based method used to indicate the time, and sometimes the continuation or completeness, of an action or state in relation to the time of speaking), which Chinese, ancient or modern, do not have.

Thus learners brought up in languages with tenses and / or punctuation marks may need to "re-orientate" themselves to a language which is essentially narrative / contextual based in order to "overcome" the "perennial problem"

Finally, your comment "Spoken language, even today, in the 21st century, also lacks punctuation marks!"

Yes, which was why I was careful in my comment to say "and so to ***write*** "吗?", the question mark is actually a redundancy"

And, as you said, "Spoken language, even today, in the 21st century, also lacks punctuation marks!", what then do people say in spoken language in place of punctuations?, they say things like, "really", "you don't say", "is it", "damn", "Oh my god", "W..T..F.."

In conclusion, "了" is therefore not a "past tense" of anything, but a "past tense *marker*", that is, the past tense of regular verbs made by adding -d or -ed to the base form of the verb, which is not possible in Chinese, ancient or modern, hence the use of "了".

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: From the little I know about Classical Chinese, I see they use 也 a lot!, which totally resembles Yeah! 孔子 was a dude!  
> **username_3**: 也 man!  I believe 孔 子 was a Duke.  

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### Answer by username_4 on 2023-05-21. Score: 0

Just one explanation for your question: "Regarding the 2nd 了, I guess it indicates the speaker's ongoing state of studying Chinese. This idea of ongoingness has been derived from here (link)".

I brought the examples from that link.

你 睡 了 一 天 了。

他 在 北京 住 了 两 年 了。

这 个 会，他们 开 了 两 个 小时 了。

我 在 这儿 等 了 半 个 小时 了。

他们 在 酒吧 待 了 一 个 晚上 了。

Between the two "了", there is a time duration in all of the examples with no exception.

Applying to the original question, you can say,

汉语我学了十年了。


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