<p><strong>The following pairs have the same meaning</strong> simply for regional or historical reasons:</p>
<p>&quot;夜宵&quot; is used in north China, and &quot;宵夜&quot; is used in the south.</p>
<p>&quot;熊猫&quot; is used in mainland China, and &quot;猫熊&quot; is used in Taiwan.</p>
<p>&quot;击剑&quot;, &quot;客人&quot; and &quot;隐私&quot; are commonly used in modern Chinese while &quot;剑击&quot;, &quot;人客&quot; and &quot;私隐&quot; is only used in ancient Chinese and literature.</p>
<p><strong>The following pairs in your examples have different meanings:</strong></p>
<p>&quot;素质&quot; = &quot;quality&quot; or &quot;manner&quot; while &quot;质素&quot; = &quot;essence&quot; and is seldom used in modern Chinese.</p>
<p>&quot;盒饭&quot; = &quot;box lunch&quot; while &quot;饭盒&quot; = &quot;a box to contain meals&quot;</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T09:46:59.020Z
quote: "质素" = "essence" and is seldom used in modern Chinese. -- You should check the dictionary or at least check Google Translate first, most of your statements are inaccurate
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T05:56:35.233Z
2024-08-04T05:56:35.233Z
Leon Ni
<ul>
<li><p>客人vs人客<br />
For Taiwanese, it's 客人 in Mandarin, but it's 人客 <em>ONLY</em> exist in Taiwanese, Minnan Language.</p>
</li>
<li><p>夜宵vs宵夜<br />
For Taiwanese, both terms are used by some people, most of people use 宵夜.<br />
In Taiwanese, use 宵夜 too.</p>
</li>
<li><p>盒饭vs饭盒<br />
For Taiwanese, there is nobody use <code>盒饭</code> and <code>饭盒</code>.<br />
They usually use 便當盒 and 便當.<br />
In Taiwanese, use 便當.
It seems come from Japanese ?<br />
You can buy <code>御便當</code> in 7-11.<br />
And ,<code>御便當</code>, this word came from Japanese.<br />
Ref: <a href="https://zh.wiktionary.org/zh-hant/%E3%81%8A%E5%BC%81%E5%BD%93" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://zh.wiktionary.org/zh-hant/%E3%81%8A%E5%BC%81%E5%BD%93</a></p>
</li>
<li><p>剑击vs击剑</p>
</li>
<li><p>素质vs质素</p>
</li>
<li><p>隐私vs私隐<br />
No comment, never heard anyone use those words in Taiwan.</p>
</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-05T00:12:18.987Z
2024-08-05T00:12:18.987Z
James
<p>At least 盒饭是盒饭，饭盒是饭盒。盒饭是饭，饭盒是盒。Those words follow the standard pattern of Chinese grammar.</p>
<p>夜宵, 消夜, etc.</p>
<p>宵的本意是夜晚。比如，良宵苦短。阴历元月十五的夜晚称为元宵节，即每年第一个月圆赏月的日子。元宵节吃的汤圆被称为元宵。于是人们误以为宵是吃的，用于其他词汇，比如，吃夜宵。</p>
<p>消的本意是消耗时间或者消费金钱。还有消灭害虫，等等。夏天晚上乘凉会友聊天叫消夜。因为会饮茶喝酒，吃点心等各种食品。这样引申出消夜是食品或者晚上吃的东西。</p>
<p>宵夜是个绝对胡来的词，因为宵就是夜，夜就是宵。这样，吃宵夜就是吃晚上的晚上。把消夜（食品）当成宵夜，没有道理，而且去掉了消耗时间的意思。</p>
<p>夜消不是一个正确的写法。不能作为夜宵的同义词。因为“消”（消耗）是个动词。“宵”（食品）是个名词。“消夜”是从动宾结构合成的动词，又转成名词。比如，“我们去消夜吧”。消夜可以是一种活动，或者是活动的地点（比如歌厅，台球馆）。“我们去吃消夜吧”。消夜是被吃的食品，是个动宾整体，不应反着说“夜消”。</p>
<p>汉语词汇应该纯粹根据文法分析，不应按政治，区域，人群等等分析。至于方言，因素更加复杂。但是政治并不是主要因素，除非是专用词汇或者翻译的选取。</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T01:58:36.737Z
I still don't accept 員警 in place of 警員; 夜消 in place of 消夜
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T03:51:02.017Z
@TangHo In Taiwan, 警員 is the former name for police, 員警 is the police who is on duty (執行任務). We 在家吃消夜; 帶小姐吃夜消:) 這都是地域性的習慣用語. 在一地住久了, 自然就適應了.
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T03:58:09.667Z
饭盒, 台語稱便當盒, is the name of the meal container; 盒饭 is the lunch meal (in a container) prepared and sold by the vendor. Do these terms have anything to do with the question of this thread?
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T11:48:09.810Z
@r13 I quite enjoy the Comments so far as it highlights the fact that the Chinese language, like the country itself, is not only vast and regionally diverse but also because of its ancient roots has to find linguistic relevancy in modern usages by countries divided by politics. I could see Tang Ho's objections because as a Cantonese speaker myself, I do find some of the Taiwanese word reversals sounding weird as well, though I must admit that when said in Mandarin they sounded perfectly "fine", although Tang Ho, not a habitual Mandarin speaker, may find it hard to relate to. My 2 cents.
Wayne Cheah
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T16:29:35.760Z
@WayneCheah Allow me to point out that the reverse of word order only exists in the Taiwanese dialect, which is considered the same as **Hokkien**, and similar to the **Teochew** dialect. In school, dialect speaking used to be discouraged.
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T00:07:17.193Z
2024-08-04T22:28:27.320Z
2024-08-04T22:28:27.320Z
PdotWang
<p>I personally disagree with the notion/implication of this thread that implies Taiwanese and Honkonians choose words mainly based on political ideologies; I think in no time the differences in the Chinese local languages shall be politicized, except for the political slogans, which in turn, are more suitable to be addressed and discussed in the &quot;political forum&quot;</p>
<p>Among the example words cited by the OP, I happen to know &quot;人客&quot; is the Taiwanese dialect that means &quot;客人&quot; in Mandarin; the Taiwanese have used it for centuries before the splitting of China, and it can be traced back to their native language - Hokkien(闽南语).</p>
<p>About &quot;猫熊 for 熊猫&quot;, here is an interesting article about the reverse in word order, and it concludes with:</p>
<ul>
<li>&quot;在英语里，有关熊猫的名字是Cat bear，中文译为猫熊。因为它的脸像猫，体似熊。然而不幸的是，1944年12月，猫熊首次在重庆北碚的中国西部科学博物馆里展出时，展板说明文字的标题采用横书，名为“猫熊”。当时汉字一般采用直书，从右往左读。这样一来，前来参观的群众凭习惯将横书的“猫熊”读成了熊猫。于是只好随俗，将错就错了。从此，猫熊就成了熊猫，也算是潮流不可阻挡的一个有趣的例子吧。&quot;</li>
</ul>
<p>I don't know how true is it. For who interested in it, <a href="https://www.kepu.net.cn/zt/201008_01_xmsh/002.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">read on :)</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T17:39:34.460Z
2024-08-04T17:39:34.460Z
r13
<blockquote>
<p>The Giant Panda (black-and-white cat-foot) (Ailuropoda melanoleuca),
is a mammal classified in the bear family, Ursidae, native to
central-western and southwestern China.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Definitely there are political reasons behind this sinister word reversal:</p>
<p>The Giant Panda, 大熊猫 is so called to distinguish it from the 小熊猫. Both belong to the bear family, Ursidae.</p>
<p>Taiwaners are right wing, so they like to put the descriptee, 熊，on the right 猫熊, cat bear.</p>
<p>大陆人 are left wing, so they like to put the descriptee, 熊，on the left: 熊猫, bear cat。</p>
<p>As Taiwan people long ago eradicated pandas from the island, the naming should really be left to the 大陆人！</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T12:01:39.603Z
BTW, is the Giant Panda black with small white patches or white with large black patches? Oppss....now it may begin to sound "racial" as well? LOL
Wayne Cheah
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-05T06:20:23.627Z
What? Pandas are red! I think you may benefit from a trip to the optician! If you are English, you are racist, can't be helped!
Pedroski
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T10:18:31.190Z
2024-08-04T10:18:31.190Z
Pedroski
<p>Hong Kong Paris Olympic 2024 champion title holder 江旻憓 said she is passionate about 剑击, whose accepted expression in the mainland is 击剑.</p>
<p>Similar words are 素质vs质素, 客人vs人客, 隐私vs私隐, 夜宵vs宵夜, 盒饭vs饭盒, etc.</p>
<p>Taiwan people use 猫熊 for 熊猫 that is the usual form.</p>
<p>Why is so? For political reasons?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T04:05:53.987Z
You got it backward, it is mostly the mainlanders using reverse orders and it is a recent thing, blame it on CCP
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T04:23:52.810Z
No language authority would suddenly reverse word order for fun or "political reasons". The obvious default answer is that the word variations have long been synonyms, and different regions settled on different variations. If you believe that one of your words listed had another motivation for being of a different word order, you should ask about that word specifically after doing some basic background research. Example: If you check《漢語大詞典》, you'll find that e.g. 人客 (*guest*) appeared in literature from the Tang Dynasty, so it's incredibly bizarre to even suggest that it would be political.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T07:27:27.693Z
Yes, I recall that 鲁迅 used 绍介 instead of 介绍 in his writings.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T07:33:22.423Z
Mainlanders use simplified characters, HKers and Taiwanese still use the traditional ones to make themselves different, which is not so cost-effective and efficient in communication. Malaysian and Singaporean  people do not have such political consideration, so they choose the easy and simple ones, as far as I can see.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T08:10:13.163Z
One more example is that many Mainlanders online use 傲娇 instead of 骄傲, perhaps these are idioms of different meanings.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T08:13:58.333Z
@TangHo I do not blame anybody, I am just curious. You seem to be a little emotional, take good care of yourself in such a hot weather.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T08:42:25.593Z
LOL, you have a very bizarre idea of what "cost-effective communication" is. Simplified Chinese is harder and more inefficient to learn by miles because it was a spelling reform heavily inspired by cursive shapes, not sounds or meanings. No language in the world speaks spelling abbreviations or cursive. "HKers and Taiwanese" have higher literacy rates than Mainland Chinese, so why would they switch to a writing system that has zero, if not *negative* benefit on literacy? Please, stop spouting absolutely strange and wrong ideas, and ask better questions.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T09:06:41.153Z
This is not a political forum, I suggest closing the thread.
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T22:51:30.273Z
Just to keep the record straight, it's 猫熊, not 熊猫. Ask yourself, does the animal look more like bear or cat? Panda belongs to 動物界,脊索動物門,哺乳綱,食肉目,熊科,大貓熊亞科,大貓熊族,大貓熊屬.
joehua
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T23:50:46.707Z
@Tang Ho 香港人是不是把哪个帮派势力叫铲共党？
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-03T23:54:23.397Z
@NanningYouth can you be a little more humorous? Some languages were born for laughs.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T00:02:12.940Z
@r13 I don’t know who closed this question. For your reasons, they can close any question in this and other websites. No water in any river is purified.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T00:03:42.790Z
@NanningYouth can you protest without going on the streets?
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T01:18:54.540Z
@PdotWang Yes, I voted to close, since I don't see the benefit of continuing this thread. But I am not a moderator, so I can only suggest.
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T04:46:35.483Z
@r13 Both this question and your comment are OK to me. Thanks
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-08-04T19:27:24.017Z
Although this appears to be a Mandarin-focused question, see [the map of the varieties of Chinese here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese#/media/File:Map_of_animal_gender_markers_in_Chinese_dialects.svg) for 母鸡 as a prefix vs 鸡母 as a suffix.
Michaelyus
<word-order>
Why do Hong Kong or Taiwan use reverse word order for some phrases?
# Why do Hong Kong or Taiwan use reverse word order for some phrases?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-08-03)

Hong Kong Paris Olympic 2024 champion title holder 江旻憓 said she is passionate about 剑击, whose accepted expression in the mainland is 击剑.

Similar words are 素质vs质素, 客人vs人客, 隐私vs私隐, 夜宵vs宵夜, 盒饭vs饭盒, etc.

Taiwan people use 猫熊 for 熊猫 that is the usual form.

Why is so? For political reasons?

**Tags:** word-order
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: You got it backward, it is mostly the mainlanders using reverse orders and it is a recent thing, blame it on CCP  
> **username_2**: No language authority would suddenly reverse word order for fun or "political reasons". The obvious default answer is that the word variations have long been synonyms, and different regions settled on different variations. If you believe that one of your words listed had another motivation for being of a different word order, you should ask about that word specifically after doing some basic background research. Example: If you check《漢語大詞典》, you'll find that e.g. 人客 (*guest*) appeared in literature from the Tang Dynasty, so it's incredibly bizarre to even suggest that it would be political.  
> **username_0**: Yes, I recall that 鲁迅 used 绍介 instead of 介绍 in his writings.  
> **username_0**: Mainlanders use simplified characters, HKers and Taiwanese still use the traditional ones to make themselves different, which is not so cost-effective and efficient in communication. Malaysian and Singaporean  people do not have such political consideration, so they choose the easy and simple ones, as far as I can see.  
> **username_0**: One more example is that many Mainlanders online use 傲娇 instead of 骄傲, perhaps these are idioms of different meanings.  
> **username_0**: @TangHo I do not blame anybody, I am just curious. You seem to be a little emotional, take good care of yourself in such a hot weather.  
> **username_2**: LOL, you have a very bizarre idea of what "cost-effective communication" is. Simplified Chinese is harder and more inefficient to learn by miles because it was a spelling reform heavily inspired by cursive shapes, not sounds or meanings. No language in the world speaks spelling abbreviations or cursive. "HKers and Taiwanese" have higher literacy rates than Mainland Chinese, so why would they switch to a writing system that has zero, if not *negative* benefit on literacy? Please, stop spouting absolutely strange and wrong ideas, and ask better questions.  
> **username_3**: This is not a political forum, I suggest closing the thread.  
> **username_4**: Just to keep the record straight, it's 猫熊, not 熊猫. Ask yourself, does the animal look more like bear or cat? Panda belongs to 動物界,脊索動物門,哺乳綱,食肉目,熊科,大貓熊亞科,大貓熊族,大貓熊屬.  
> **username_5**: @Tang Ho 香港人是不是把哪个帮派势力叫铲共党？  
> **username_5**: @NanningYouth can you be a little more humorous? Some languages were born for laughs.  
> **username_5**: @r13 I don’t know who closed this question. For your reasons, they can close any question in this and other websites. No water in any river is purified.  
> **username_5**: @NanningYouth can you protest without going on the streets?  
> **username_3**: @PdotWang Yes, I voted to close, since I don't see the benefit of continuing this thread. But I am not a moderator, so I can only suggest.  
> **username_5**: @r13 Both this question and your comment are OK to me. Thanks  
> **username_6**: Although this appears to be a Mandarin-focused question, see [the map of the varieties of Chinese here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese#/media/File:Map_of_animal_gender_markers_in_Chinese_dialects.svg) for 母鸡 as a prefix vs 鸡母 as a suffix.  

---

## 5 answers

### Answer by username_7 on 2024-08-04. Score: 2

**The following pairs have the same meaning** simply for regional or historical reasons:

"夜宵" is used in north China, and "宵夜" is used in the south.

"熊猫" is used in mainland China, and "猫熊" is used in Taiwan.

"击剑", "客人" and "隐私" are commonly used in modern Chinese while "剑击", "人客" and "私隐" is only used in ancient Chinese and literature.

**The following pairs in your examples have different meanings:**

"素质" = "quality" or "manner" while "质素" = "essence" and is seldom used in modern Chinese.

"盒饭" = "box lunch" while "饭盒" = "a box to contain meals"

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: quote: "质素" = "essence" and is seldom used in modern Chinese. -- You should check the dictionary or at least check Google Translate first, most of your statements are inaccurate  

---

### Answer by username_8 on 2024-08-05. Score: 1

* 客人vs人客  
  For Taiwanese, it's 客人 in Mandarin, but it's 人客 *ONLY* exist in Taiwanese, Minnan Language.
* 夜宵vs宵夜  
  For Taiwanese, both terms are used by some people, most of people use 宵夜.  
  In Taiwanese, use 宵夜 too.
* 盒饭vs饭盒  
  For Taiwanese, there is nobody use `盒饭` and `饭盒`.  
  They usually use 便當盒 and 便當.  
  In Taiwanese, use 便當.
  It seems come from Japanese ?  
  You can buy `御便當` in 7-11.  
  And ,`御便當`, this word came from Japanese.  
  Ref: <https://zh.wiktionary.org/zh-hant/%E3%81%8A%E5%BC%81%E5%BD%93>
* 剑击vs击剑
* 素质vs质素
* 隐私vs私隐  
  No comment, never heard anyone use those words in Taiwan.


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2024-08-04. Score: 1

At least 盒饭是盒饭，饭盒是饭盒。盒饭是饭，饭盒是盒。Those words follow the standard pattern of Chinese grammar.

夜宵, 消夜, etc.

宵的本意是夜晚。比如，良宵苦短。阴历元月十五的夜晚称为元宵节，即每年第一个月圆赏月的日子。元宵节吃的汤圆被称为元宵。于是人们误以为宵是吃的，用于其他词汇，比如，吃夜宵。

消的本意是消耗时间或者消费金钱。还有消灭害虫，等等。夏天晚上乘凉会友聊天叫消夜。因为会饮茶喝酒，吃点心等各种食品。这样引申出消夜是食品或者晚上吃的东西。

宵夜是个绝对胡来的词，因为宵就是夜，夜就是宵。这样，吃宵夜就是吃晚上的晚上。把消夜（食品）当成宵夜，没有道理，而且去掉了消耗时间的意思。

夜消不是一个正确的写法。不能作为夜宵的同义词。因为“消”（消耗）是个动词。“宵”（食品）是个名词。“消夜”是从动宾结构合成的动词，又转成名词。比如，“我们去消夜吧”。消夜可以是一种活动，或者是活动的地点（比如歌厅，台球馆）。“我们去吃消夜吧”。消夜是被吃的食品，是个动宾整体，不应反着说“夜消”。

汉语词汇应该纯粹根据文法分析，不应按政治，区域，人群等等分析。至于方言，因素更加复杂。但是政治并不是主要因素，除非是专用词汇或者翻译的选取。

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I still don't accept 員警 in place of 警員; 夜消 in place of 消夜  
> **username_3**: @TangHo In Taiwan, 警員 is the former name for police, 員警 is the police who is on duty (執行任務). We 在家吃消夜; 帶小姐吃夜消:) 這都是地域性的習慣用語. 在一地住久了, 自然就適應了.  
> **username_3**: 饭盒, 台語稱便當盒, is the name of the meal container; 盒饭 is the lunch meal (in a container) prepared and sold by the vendor. Do these terms have anything to do with the question of this thread?  
> **username_9**: @r13 I quite enjoy the Comments so far as it highlights the fact that the Chinese language, like the country itself, is not only vast and regionally diverse but also because of its ancient roots has to find linguistic relevancy in modern usages by countries divided by politics. I could see Tang Ho's objections because as a Cantonese speaker myself, I do find some of the Taiwanese word reversals sounding weird as well, though I must admit that when said in Mandarin they sounded perfectly "fine", although Tang Ho, not a habitual Mandarin speaker, may find it hard to relate to. My 2 cents.  
> **username_3**: @WayneCheah Allow me to point out that the reverse of word order only exists in the Taiwanese dialect, which is considered the same as **Hokkien**, and similar to the **Teochew** dialect. In school, dialect speaking used to be discouraged.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2024-08-04. Score: 0

I personally disagree with the notion/implication of this thread that implies Taiwanese and Honkonians choose words mainly based on political ideologies; I think in no time the differences in the Chinese local languages shall be politicized, except for the political slogans, which in turn, are more suitable to be addressed and discussed in the "political forum"

Among the example words cited by the OP, I happen to know "人客" is the Taiwanese dialect that means "客人" in Mandarin; the Taiwanese have used it for centuries before the splitting of China, and it can be traced back to their native language - Hokkien(闽南语).

About "猫熊 for 熊猫", here is an interesting article about the reverse in word order, and it concludes with:

* "在英语里，有关熊猫的名字是Cat bear，中文译为猫熊。因为它的脸像猫，体似熊。然而不幸的是，1944年12月，猫熊首次在重庆北碚的中国西部科学博物馆里展出时，展板说明文字的标题采用横书，名为“猫熊”。当时汉字一般采用直书，从右往左读。这样一来，前来参观的群众凭习惯将横书的“猫熊”读成了熊猫。于是只好随俗，将错就错了。从此，猫熊就成了熊猫，也算是潮流不可阻挡的一个有趣的例子吧。"

I don't know how true is it. For who interested in it, [read on :)](https://www.kepu.net.cn/zt/201008_01_xmsh/002.html)


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### Answer by username_10 on 2024-08-04. Score: -1

> The Giant Panda (black-and-white cat-foot) (Ailuropoda melanoleuca),
> is a mammal classified in the bear family, Ursidae, native to
> central-western and southwestern China.

Definitely there are political reasons behind this sinister word reversal:

The Giant Panda, 大熊猫 is so called to distinguish it from the 小熊猫. Both belong to the bear family, Ursidae.

Taiwaners are right wing, so they like to put the descriptee, 熊，on the right 猫熊, cat bear.

大陆人 are left wing, so they like to put the descriptee, 熊，on the left: 熊猫, bear cat。

As Taiwan people long ago eradicated pandas from the island, the naming should really be left to the 大陆人！

> **Comments:**
> **username_9**: BTW, is the Giant Panda black with small white patches or white with large black patches? Oppss....now it may begin to sound "racial" as well? LOL  
> **username_10**: What? Pandas are red! I think you may benefit from a trip to the optician! If you are English, you are racist, can't be helped!  

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