<p>车 is a wagon, and 俞 is a boat, which had been used to transport stuff since earlier times. 俞 is also phonetic. The original meaning of 输 is <em>to transport using wagons</em>.</p>
<p>The original meaning has extended to mean <em>to transport</em>, thus entry 1.</p>
<p>The ways that Entry 1 extends to Entries 2 and 3 are closely related. Things are transported to the others, which is extended to mean <em>to contribute, to donate</em>. In ancient times, it often refers to <em>paying taxes</em>.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>（段玉裁） 输于彼则彼赢而此不足</p>
<p>Things are transported to the others, and then others have many and we don't have enough.</p>
<p>故胜负曰赢输</p>
<p>therefore winning and losing are called 赢 and 输</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-02T14:00:27.707Z
Is there a way of knowing when these semantic extensions took place? I'm also very interested in understanding the relationship between written and spoken language. Is it likely that the semantic extension took place first in writing and then was extended to speaking? Or is it more likely to be the other way around?
Buddy L
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-02T21:33:48.380Z
@Buddy L  I don't know if there's a special dictionary or tool. But you can learn their approximate age from the examples in dictionaries like 《漢語大詞典》《辭源》, where examples are also dated. Usually I can tell the history of the semantic changes after reading the original meaning and examples from other later meanings. The examples are not necessarily the first appearance of the corresponding meanings, but they're representative.
lilysirius
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-02T21:35:36.680Z
@Buddy L Up until last century Chinese is mostly written in the literary form, which is very little changed from the Qin and Han Period.  The spoken languages have been evolving on its own. Usually, dominating changes in the spoken languages are selectively incorporated into the literary form. So I'd say it's the other way round.
lilysirius
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-03T23:36:04.520Z
This is also what makes very good sense to me. What is confusing to me is that despite the case being so, so much semantic weight is given to the orthographical record. If new words are created by people speaking, then wouldn't phonology, syntax and morphology be much more significant for tracing meaning than tracing how scholars decided to write the word down once that word found its way into their lexicon?
Buddy L
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-04T00:34:25.610Z
@Buddy L It’s probably because the spoken languages are too diverse, not mutually intelligible. A huge part of them cannot be written down. If linguists dig deeper they might be able to determine the corresponding written characters of some of those words, but it’s impossible for an average literate person. Then it’s impossible for him to use or discuss it with another person from a different region, which doesn’t even have to be far away. What finally get a fixed written form is what makes into the common language. Most of the spoken vocabulary in history are lost.
lilysirius
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-04T19:33:08.537Z
Thank you for laying it down like this. Would it be fair to say then that what is considered 普通话 is like a spoken version of written language?
Buddy L
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-04T19:53:06.877Z
@BuddyL 普通话 is an artificially standardized common tongue that is  based on the grammar of Northern Mandarin and the phonology and phonetics of Beijing Mandarin (a variant of Northern Mandarin). Modern written Chinese is roughly the corresponding written version, but also inherited some features of old writting.
lilysirius
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-01T20:54:21.417Z
2022-03-01T21:02:40.683Z
2022-03-01T21:02:40.683Z
lilysirius
<p>输：</p>
<ul>
<li><p>transport, convey something from one source to another.</p>
</li>
<li><p>contribute money; donate something (usually) money to someone.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>On a gambling table, you transport your money from your pocket to another person's pocket, an act similar to contributing your wealth or donating your money to someone else for no condition attached. Finally, the money is forever gone because you were defeated and lost the game (输了). :)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-01T21:41:45.517Z
2022-03-01T21:41:45.517Z
r13
<p>输：</p>
<ol>
<li><p>transport, convey</p>
</li>
<li><p>contribute money; donate</p>
</li>
<li><p>Lose, be defeated</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>How did the first two senses give rise to the third?</p>

<meaning><phrase-meaning>
How did 输 come to mean "lose"?
# How did 输 come to mean "lose"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-03-01)

输：

1. transport, convey
2. contribute money; donate
3. Lose, be defeated

How did the first two senses give rise to the third?

**Tags:** meaning, phrase-meaning

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2022-03-01. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

车 is a wagon, and 俞 is a boat, which had been used to transport stuff since earlier times. 俞 is also phonetic. The original meaning of 输 is *to transport using wagons*.

The original meaning has extended to mean *to transport*, thus entry 1.

The ways that Entry 1 extends to Entries 2 and 3 are closely related. Things are transported to the others, which is extended to mean *to contribute, to donate*. In ancient times, it often refers to *paying taxes*.

> （段玉裁） 输于彼则彼赢而此不足
>
> Things are transported to the others, and then others have many and we don't have enough.
>
> 故胜负曰赢输
>
> therefore winning and losing are called 赢 and 输

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Is there a way of knowing when these semantic extensions took place? I'm also very interested in understanding the relationship between written and spoken language. Is it likely that the semantic extension took place first in writing and then was extended to speaking? Or is it more likely to be the other way around?  
> **username_1**: @Buddy L  I don't know if there's a special dictionary or tool. But you can learn their approximate age from the examples in dictionaries like 《漢語大詞典》《辭源》, where examples are also dated. Usually I can tell the history of the semantic changes after reading the original meaning and examples from other later meanings. The examples are not necessarily the first appearance of the corresponding meanings, but they're representative.  
> **username_1**: @Buddy L Up until last century Chinese is mostly written in the literary form, which is very little changed from the Qin and Han Period.  The spoken languages have been evolving on its own. Usually, dominating changes in the spoken languages are selectively incorporated into the literary form. So I'd say it's the other way round.  
> **username_0**: This is also what makes very good sense to me. What is confusing to me is that despite the case being so, so much semantic weight is given to the orthographical record. If new words are created by people speaking, then wouldn't phonology, syntax and morphology be much more significant for tracing meaning than tracing how scholars decided to write the word down once that word found its way into their lexicon?  
> **username_1**: @Buddy L It’s probably because the spoken languages are too diverse, not mutually intelligible. A huge part of them cannot be written down. If linguists dig deeper they might be able to determine the corresponding written characters of some of those words, but it’s impossible for an average literate person. Then it’s impossible for him to use or discuss it with another person from a different region, which doesn’t even have to be far away. What finally get a fixed written form is what makes into the common language. Most of the spoken vocabulary in history are lost.  
> **username_0**: Thank you for laying it down like this. Would it be fair to say then that what is considered 普通话 is like a spoken version of written language?  
> **username_1**: @BuddyL 普通话 is an artificially standardized common tongue that is  based on the grammar of Northern Mandarin and the phonology and phonetics of Beijing Mandarin (a variant of Northern Mandarin). Modern written Chinese is roughly the corresponding written version, but also inherited some features of old writting.  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2022-03-01. Score: 0

输：

* transport, convey something from one source to another.
* contribute money; donate something (usually) money to someone.

On a gambling table, you transport your money from your pocket to another person's pocket, an act similar to contributing your wealth or donating your money to someone else for no condition attached. Finally, the money is forever gone because you were defeated and lost the game (输了). :)


---

