<p>I know a few</p>
<p>眾志<strong>成城</strong> - people are strong together</p>
<p>婦<strong>人</strong>之<strong>仁</strong> - trivial kindness</p>
<p><strong>盜</strong>亦有<strong>道</strong> - Even thieves have their justice</p>
<p>死者<strong>已矣</strong> - The dead are gone</p>
<p>私相<strong>授受</strong> - Privately give and receive</p>
<p><strong>仁人</strong>君子 - A benevolent gentleman</p>
<p><strong>如魚</strong>得水 - like fish in the water (Cantonese)</p>
<p>Also in Cantonese:</p>
<p><strong>蓮子年子</strong>，年生貴子；<strong>蓮藕年偶</strong>，年年佳偶 (a well-wishing in wedding)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-31T13:26:21.940Z
Thanks, very good examples. Sadly I currently have zero knowledge of Cantonese. Do you know of any other examples using only 3, or more than 4, characters?
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-31T17:25:58.220Z
Don't you find it interesting that 中指，終止，中子，宗旨 all sound the same?
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-31T21:21:35.893Z
Well Tang Ho that's an interesting question. I'm not sure I understand why you're asking it. Perhaps this isn't the right place for discussion of these particular homonyms. I find all homonyms interesting in general. / The pinyin for 中子 is zhong1zi3, whereas the other three have the pinyin zhong1zhi3 so I believe that at least some native speakers won't pronounce 中子 the same as the other three.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-02-01T09:04:29.040Z
I got it slightly wrong, only the first two start with zhong1;  the pinyin for 宗旨 is zong1zhi3. // If you're saying that some speakers pronounce all four words the same, then that is not an uninteresting bit of information but I can't see why you're bringing it up here.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-02-01T10:11:29.547Z
With so many homophones in Chinese, it is easier to run into a phrase with two different characters sounding the same, e.g. 非法飛髮鋪，宋仁宗送人終，
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-02-03T02:49:56.103Z
@TangHo Is it that you give us couplets? I know some  too. 柳如是如柳，华莱士来华。柳如是 is a prostitute of Tang Dynasty and 华莱士 is an American celebrity during the time of early 20th century, maybe a  writer or a scientist. 翻两番 is also another word that can be counted.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-09T21:25:56.307Z
2024-01-25T06:03:26.357Z
2024-01-25T06:03:26.357Z
Tang Ho
<p>Not really an &quot;idiom&quot;, but a famous poem and <em>diangu</em> (典故), sort of like an idiom.</p>
<p><strong>枇杷</strong>不是此<strong>琵琶</strong>，只為當年識字差。若使琵琶能結果，滿城簫管盡開花。</p>
<p>枇 = 琵 = pi2, 杷 = 琶 = pa2</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E5%8F%A4%E4%BB%8A%E8%AD%9A%E6%A7%A9/06#%E7%90%B5%E7%90%B6%E6%9E%9C" rel="nofollow noreferrer">古今譚槩《琵琶果》</a></p>
<p>莫廷韓過袁太衝家，見桌上有帖，寫「琵琶四斤」，相與大笑。適屠赤水至，而笑容未了，即問其故。屠亦笑曰：「枇杷不是此琵琶。」袁曰：「只為當年識字差。」莫曰：「若使琵琶能結果，滿城簫管盡開花。」屠賞極，遂廣為延譽。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Aside from this, a true idiom: 人是衣<strong>妆</strong>，马是鞍<strong>装</strong>。 (This sentence has a significant number of variations, including having 装/妆 in both places, replacing 是 with 靠, 要, etc., and replacing the second part with 佛是金装, 货是包装, etc.)</p>
<p>Another idiom: <strong>县</strong>官不如<strong>现</strong>管</p>
<p>An idiom about two famous dishes: <strong>诸</strong>肉不如<strong>猪</strong>肉，百菜不如白菜 (referring to 烤方猪肉 and 开水白菜)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-31T13:23:27.617Z
Thanks, the three idioms given are all very nice. I'd like to see more along those lines! (The poem is a bit harder to understand for me, and also I'm not very good with 繁体字. I had to cheat and use Google translate to understand it.)
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-09T20:02:27.140Z
2024-01-09T22:17:36.030Z
2024-01-09T22:17:36.030Z
user2249675
<p>This is a follow-up question from
<a href="https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/43065">Other than 秘密，are there two-syllable words in Chinese where each syllable is a different character with the same pronunciation?</a>.</p>
<p>What are the notable or remarkable expressions (not only 成语 but also other 习惯用法、固定词组、谚语、格言 and so on)  using <em><strong>three</strong></em> or more characters, where there are two (or more) characters that are both
a) different (i.e. written differently)
and
b) homophones - as in, same pinyin and same tone (i.e. both are first, second, third, fourth,  or neutral).</p>
<p>I know of a few such expressions, but they may not all be very notable or remarkable.</p>
<ul>
<li>
<ol>
<li>&amp; 2.   屋乌推爱* wūwūtuīài - it’s a variant of the much more well-known chengyu 爱屋及乌 àiwūjíwū /lit. love the house and its crow (idiom); involvement with sb and everyone connected/Love me, love my dog./
Both feature the homophones 屋 / 乌.</li>
</ol>
</li>
<li>
<ol start="3">
<li>眾志成城 众志成城 [zhong4 zhi4 cheng2 cheng2] /unity of will is an impregnable stronghold (idiom)/</li>
</ol>
</li>
<li>
<ol start="4">
<li>&amp; 5.  狗苟蝇营 / 蝇营狗苟</li>
</ol>
</li>
</ul>
<p>What other such expressions are there?</p>
<p>(Edit) My examples above are all (4-character) 成语; it would be nice to have some other examples that use a different number of characters.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-10T00:53:39.243Z
I fumbled around with ChatGPT to write awk code to extract 4-character idioms the CC-CEDICT dictionary.  It gave me [82 candidates](https://pastebin.com/SzaFthLe) without duplicated characters (like 滔滔不绝), but most are like 石器时代 ("Stone age").  Some (not yet mentioned) chengyu are **事**实求**是**, **夕**阳**西**下, 自**知之**明, but I not able to determine which are(n't) chengyu in general (some are perhaps too rare to mention).  Maybe these should count too: **初出**茅庐, **知**遇**之**恩, 臻于**郅治**, **芝**兰**之**室 难**以**自**已**.
Becky 李蓓
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-10T23:22:58.593Z
I came across 专心致志
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-25T07:48:17.707Z
How about 骄娇二气 and 意见建议
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-26T01:16:07.730Z
other examples 如无异议，可按此执行 and 中日两国，一衣带水
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-29T09:19:26.080Z
@NanningYouth, I'm not sure the first one is what I was looking for because it doesn't seem to be notable expression; it's re not 习惯用法、固定词组、谚语 or 格言. It seems to me it is just a normal sentence that uses the word 异议, which is outside the scope of this question (only two characters). The second one contains 一衣带水 which  I found in a proverbs dictionary so it is indeed an example; thanks.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-31T01:58:29.447Z
According to your standard, if 秘密 is acceptable, there is no reason why 异议 is not. I saw another two, if you don't mind. One is 《声生不息》, a hot TV program of the famed Hunan Mango TV芒果台; the other 智志双扶，a poverty relief program sponsored by the government, in which aids are given to develop the intelligence 智and the aspiration志 to those living in poverty. In the host school where I stayed previously, there are teachers who are currently engaged in that.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-31T02:01:22.093Z
@Becky李蓓 I don't think the example you gave 事实求是 is correct. The true one is 实事求是.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-01-31T13:15:53.463Z
@NanningYouth This question explicitly excludes two-character words: ("…using three or more characters, …"). So neither 秘密 nor 异议 are relevant here, sorry. // Thanks for the other two examples (声生不息 and 智志双扶). // Can you think of any examples where the core term or expression is made up of N characters with N= 3 or > 4? // I'm also interested in the case where the two homophonic characters aren't next to each other, as in 爱屋及乌 and 妇人之仁// The best answer so far IMO is the one from @user2249675; the 3 idioms at the end of their answer are excellent.
goPlayerJuggler
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-02-01T07:20:06.653Z
OK, I find it interesting so I keep my eyes and ears open like a hunter, so perhaps that is the fun of exploration, haha! My teacher also told me one, from the famous essay 《出师表》, that is, 将军向宠，性行淑均, in which 行 is pronounced at the fourth tone, same as the word性. But the latest (12th) edition of 新华字典shows, this word should be in second tone as usual, but under the same entry it also notes that the word did sound the fourth tone formerly.
NanningYouth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-02-02T06:20:29.277Z
狗苟蝇营 / 蝇营狗苟 look like just the order of the characters are switched. There could be many like these. For example 龍吟虎嘯 / 虎嘯龍吟. Notice that these are composed of two parallel terms so these terms can be switched easily.
fat penguin
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-02-02T10:23:12.113Z
@fatpenguin yes, indeed. That's why I put the two terms together. It's an interesting example made up of two pairs of homophonic characters, in either order.
goPlayerJuggler
<vocabulary><idioms>
expressions (idioms, proverbs etc) with two or more homophonic characters
# expressions (idioms, proverbs etc) with two or more homophonic characters

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-01-09)

This is a follow-up question from
[Other than 秘密，are there two-syllable words in Chinese where each syllable is a different character with the same pronunciation?](https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/43065).

What are the notable or remarkable expressions (not only 成语 but also other 习惯用法、固定词组、谚语、格言 and so on) using ***three*** or more characters, where there are two (or more) characters that are both
a) different (i.e. written differently)
and
b) homophones - as in, same pinyin and same tone (i.e. both are first, second, third, fourth, or neutral).

I know of a few such expressions, but they may not all be very notable or remarkable.

* 1. & 2. 屋乌推爱\* wūwūtuīài - it’s a variant of the much more well-known chengyu 爱屋及乌 àiwūjíwū /lit. love the house and its crow (idiom); involvement with sb and everyone connected/Love me, love my dog./
     Both feature the homophones 屋 / 乌.
* 3. 眾志成城 众志成城 [zhong4 zhi4 cheng2 cheng2] /unity of will is an impregnable stronghold (idiom)/
* 4. & 5. 狗苟蝇营 / 蝇营狗苟

What other such expressions are there?

(Edit) My examples above are all (4-character) 成语; it would be nice to have some other examples that use a different number of characters.

**Tags:** vocabulary, idioms
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I fumbled around with ChatGPT to write awk code to extract 4-character idioms the CC-CEDICT dictionary.  It gave me [82 candidates](https://pastebin.com/SzaFthLe) without duplicated characters (like 滔滔不绝), but most are like 石器时代 ("Stone age").  Some (not yet mentioned) chengyu are **事**实求**是**, **夕**阳**西**下, 自**知之**明, but I not able to determine which are(n't) chengyu in general (some are perhaps too rare to mention).  Maybe these should count too: **初出**茅庐, **知**遇**之**恩, 臻于**郅治**, **芝**兰**之**室 难**以**自**已**.  
> **username_0**: I came across 专心致志  
> **username_2**: How about 骄娇二气 and 意见建议  
> **username_2**: other examples 如无异议，可按此执行 and 中日两国，一衣带水  
> **username_0**: @NanningYouth, I'm not sure the first one is what I was looking for because it doesn't seem to be notable expression; it's re not 习惯用法、固定词组、谚语 or 格言. It seems to me it is just a normal sentence that uses the word 异议, which is outside the scope of this question (only two characters). The second one contains 一衣带水 which  I found in a proverbs dictionary so it is indeed an example; thanks.  
> **username_2**: According to your standard, if 秘密 is acceptable, there is no reason why 异议 is not. I saw another two, if you don't mind. One is 《声生不息》, a hot TV program of the famed Hunan Mango TV芒果台; the other 智志双扶，a poverty relief program sponsored by the government, in which aids are given to develop the intelligence 智and the aspiration志 to those living in poverty. In the host school where I stayed previously, there are teachers who are currently engaged in that.  
> **username_2**: @Becky李蓓 I don't think the example you gave 事实求是 is correct. The true one is 实事求是.  
> **username_0**: @NanningYouth This question explicitly excludes two-character words: ("…using three or more characters, …"). So neither 秘密 nor 异议 are relevant here, sorry. // Thanks for the other two examples (声生不息 and 智志双扶). // Can you think of any examples where the core term or expression is made up of N characters with N= 3 or > 4? // I'm also interested in the case where the two homophonic characters aren't next to each other, as in 爱屋及乌 and 妇人之仁// The best answer so far IMO is the one from @user2249675; the 3 idioms at the end of their answer are excellent.  
> **username_2**: OK, I find it interesting so I keep my eyes and ears open like a hunter, so perhaps that is the fun of exploration, haha! My teacher also told me one, from the famous essay 《出师表》, that is, 将军向宠，性行淑均, in which 行 is pronounced at the fourth tone, same as the word性. But the latest (12th) edition of 新华字典shows, this word should be in second tone as usual, but under the same entry it also notes that the word did sound the fourth tone formerly.  
> **username_3**: 狗苟蝇营 / 蝇营狗苟 look like just the order of the characters are switched. There could be many like these. For example 龍吟虎嘯 / 虎嘯龍吟. Notice that these are composed of two parallel terms so these terms can be switched easily.  
> **username_0**: @fatpenguin yes, indeed. That's why I put the two terms together. It's an interesting example made up of two pairs of homophonic characters, in either order.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2024-01-09. Score: 3

I know a few

眾志**成城** - people are strong together

婦**人**之**仁** - trivial kindness

**盜**亦有**道** - Even thieves have their justice

死者**已矣** - The dead are gone

私相**授受** - Privately give and receive

**仁人**君子 - A benevolent gentleman

**如魚**得水 - like fish in the water (Cantonese)

Also in Cantonese:

**蓮子年子**，年生貴子；**蓮藕年偶**，年年佳偶 (a well-wishing in wedding)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks, very good examples. Sadly I currently have zero knowledge of Cantonese. Do you know of any other examples using only 3, or more than 4, characters?  
> **username_4**: Don't you find it interesting that 中指，終止，中子，宗旨 all sound the same?  
> **username_0**: Well Tang Ho that's an interesting question. I'm not sure I understand why you're asking it. Perhaps this isn't the right place for discussion of these particular homonyms. I find all homonyms interesting in general. / The pinyin for 中子 is zhong1zi3, whereas the other three have the pinyin zhong1zhi3 so I believe that at least some native speakers won't pronounce 中子 the same as the other three.  
> **username_0**: I got it slightly wrong, only the first two start with zhong1;  the pinyin for 宗旨 is zong1zhi3. // If you're saying that some speakers pronounce all four words the same, then that is not an uninteresting bit of information but I can't see why you're bringing it up here.  
> **username_4**: With so many homophones in Chinese, it is easier to run into a phrase with two different characters sounding the same, e.g. 非法飛髮鋪，宋仁宗送人終，  
> **username_2**: @TangHo Is it that you give us couplets? I know some  too. 柳如是如柳，华莱士来华。柳如是 is a prostitute of Tang Dynasty and 华莱士 is an American celebrity during the time of early 20th century, maybe a  writer or a scientist. 翻两番 is also another word that can be counted.  

---

### Answer by username_5 on 2024-01-09. Score: 1

Not really an "idiom", but a famous poem and *diangu* (典故), sort of like an idiom.

**枇杷**不是此**琵琶**，只為當年識字差。若使琵琶能結果，滿城簫管盡開花。

枇 = 琵 = pi2, 杷 = 琶 = pa2

> [古今譚槩《琵琶果》](https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E5%8F%A4%E4%BB%8A%E8%AD%9A%E6%A7%A9/06#%E7%90%B5%E7%90%B6%E6%9E%9C)
>
> 莫廷韓過袁太衝家，見桌上有帖，寫「琵琶四斤」，相與大笑。適屠赤水至，而笑容未了，即問其故。屠亦笑曰：「枇杷不是此琵琶。」袁曰：「只為當年識字差。」莫曰：「若使琵琶能結果，滿城簫管盡開花。」屠賞極，遂廣為延譽。

Aside from this, a true idiom: 人是衣**妆**，马是鞍**装**。 (This sentence has a significant number of variations, including having 装/妆 in both places, replacing 是 with 靠, 要, etc., and replacing the second part with 佛是金装, 货是包装, etc.)

Another idiom: **县**官不如**现**管

An idiom about two famous dishes: **诸**肉不如**猪**肉，百菜不如白菜 (referring to 烤方猪肉 and 开水白菜)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks, the three idioms given are all very nice. I'd like to see more along those lines! (The poem is a bit harder to understand for me, and also I'm not very good with 繁体字. I had to cheat and use Google translate to understand it.)  

---

