<p><em>(Let me know if you read traditional characters better! I'll switch upon request.)</em></p>

<ol>
<li><blockquote>
  <p>Use of 二年 and not 兩年，I have also seen 二位姑娘，but only in period dramata, so I assumed it was antiquated.</p>
</blockquote></li>
</ol>

<p>二年馀 is a Classical construction, and sounds formal / literary / etc. in colloquial Mandarin, which would normally say 两年多. But since this is a written text, the author went through solid classical education, and the author was generally not writing in the most vernacular way possible but communicating with some degree of Classical (i.e. written Chinese) tinges, yes there are some Classical constructions that do not appear in modern colloquial Mandarin.</p>

<hr>

<p>A related phenomenon is that, sometimes people write generally in colloquial Mandarin, but write the characters used in Classical Chinese or formal Mandarin according to the actual meaning, instead of the sound. So you see people write</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我5月12日-6月3日在上海</p>
</blockquote>

<p>but hear them say </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我5月12<strong>号</strong>到6月3<strong>号</strong>在上海.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The same thing happens with pairs like 角 and 毛, 元 and 块, 已 and 已经, etc.</p>

<p>As for 二位姑娘, that is a script that <em>actually faithfully</em> transcribes the spoken language, so the issue there is that the use of 二位 instead of 两位 dates to an older era -- which is why you see that in period dramata.</p>

<hr>

<hr>

<ol start="2">
<li><blockquote>
  <p>Use of 不見，not 沒見。Is this the difference between "it's been two years since I saw him" and "haven't seen him in two years"?</p>
</blockquote></li>
</ol>

<p>I suppose this is readily understood in English actually.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我與父親不相見已二年餘了。</p>
  
  <p>Me and my father <strong>not seeing</strong> each other...</p>
</blockquote>

<p>There, you just can't mark the aspect of <em>have</em>, or, in Mandarin, 没. </p>

<p>This syntactic choice (the construction of the whole sentence) is not frequently used, so that is probably why you think 没 should be used there. Indeed people normally say this using this construction:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我和我父亲已经两年多没见了。</p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<p>There is also an issue of Classical constructions: 相 + [verb] meaning "to <em>[verb]</em> each other" is normal in Classical Chinese, but no longer active or productive in colloquial Mandarin. People speak colloquial Mandarin, so of course they don't say</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我和父亲不相见...</p>
</blockquote>

<p>because you need to do a Classical construction there, and that does not exist in colloquial Mandarin.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T21:18:47.093Z
2017-04-20T00:52:30.733Z
2017-04-20T00:52:30.733Z
Rethliopuks
<p>Maybe because I was reading it rather than having it spoken to me my question was immediately "Why is it <em>not</em> correct?"  The more you read of the literary language the broader your idea of what is correct will be.  I know five words for "I" and have seen two different words for "year" <em>on the same page</em>.  That said I find this passage barely "literary" at all with the exception of "餘", <em>maybe</em>.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T22:42:39.130Z
2017-04-15T22:42:39.130Z
user3131341
<p>It's clearly a sentence of <a href="https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Written_vernacular_Chinese" rel="nofollow noreferrer">vernacular Chinese</a> but it can see the shadow of <a href="https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Classical_Chinese" rel="nofollow noreferrer">classical chinese</a>. And I think it's understandable since Chinese start using vernacular Chinese nationally after the 1900s and it took time to transform from classical Chinese to what we see today.</p>

<pre><code> 我與父親不相見已二年餘了
</code></pre>

<p>I haven't seen my father more than 2 year.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T17:37:00.940Z
2017-04-15T17:37:00.940Z
Kevman
<p>The phrase:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我與父親不相見已二年餘了</p>
</blockquote>

<p>is from a text widely praised by my Chinese friends and you can find it <a href="http://www.pushkinskijdom.ru/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=f8PxhqYSkeQ%3D&amp;tabid=11290" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here</a>. I don't think they share a dialect, except mandarin, so I assume it is not a dialect. According to my understanding,  the text means "it's been more than two years, since father and I last saw each other." The author lived till 1948, so I assume this is not a form of very antiquated Chinese, but it puzzles me for two reasons:</p>

<ol>
<li>Use of 二年 and not 兩年，I have also seen 二位姑娘，but only in period dramata, so I assumed it was antiquated.</li>
</ol>

<p>Edit: it seems use of 二年 was not so unusual in the past. Compare also the Qing Dynasty work <a href="https://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&amp;res=119542" rel="nofollow noreferrer">清宮禁二年記</a></p>

<ol start="2">
<li>Use of 不見，not 沒見。Is this the difference between "it's been two years since I saw him" and "haven't seen him in two years"?</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-14T22:17:45.517Z
re  1: see sample sentences for 二年 at jukuu, e.g. 6.  I have not seen him for at least two years.
 至少二年没有见到他了。
 

re 2:  last 4 of top comments of https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/17252/can-i-say-%e6%b2%a1-to-negate-future-events/17289#17289 esp. start of 3rd comment:２。在明确强调主观愿望的句子中，＂不＂也可以用于过去；
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T00:34:50.960Z
It is just a  common style in the early 20th century. A transition period of the classical Chinese to modern Chinese. It is not appropriate to use modern grammar to analyze that, otherswise, writings by 鲁迅 would have a lot of grammar mistakes.
sfy
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T01:32:03.233Z
1st comment refers to earlier question quoting reference book ＂实用汉语近义虚词词典＂（find ４ examples there）, here is quote 
from ＂实用现代汉语语法＂（with 1 example）：常用副词的用法， **十五、不、没（有）** 。。。（一）＂不＂表示对主观愿望和性质状态的否定，多用于现在、将来，  **也可用于过去**  （７）来中国以前，我一个汉字也 **不**  认识。
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T03:00:47.900Z
some users feel that 二年余 sounds somewhat unfamiliar,jukuu e.g. returns only 2 samples,  我与父亲不相见已二年余了，我最不能忘记的是他的背 (as above) and ...由于他所受中国过去二年余的英勇抗战的打击，....
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T11:19:32.590Z
excerpts from CCG：７。７。１|negative expository sentences|不 negating habitual actions (past,present or future) 他以前常常不上班，７。７。２｜Negative narrative sentences|If a past action did not take place as a result of deliberate non-action   on the part of the subject, the negator 不 is used. 他昨天（故意）不来。那年我们不（打算）在哪儿住两个月。那天他（决定）不吃三次药。
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T12:16:52.050Z
@user6065 so, he didn't see his father on purpose?! Let's see if the story confirms that! That would be a useful distinction to know!
Ludi
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-15T14:53:35.500Z
1. Surely, 朱自清 did not avoid seeing his father on purpose. 2. The modern way of saying this, I think, is 我與父親已經兩年沒見過了. Early 20th century Chinese are different. 不見 has very ancient use, as seen in 詩經. 3. I would guess at first glance that they did not see each other because they COULD NOT. (Some notion of 不能 is suggested by the character 不)
HYC
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-04-18T09:30:21.217Z
通常我们不说“二年”，而是“两年”，在现代口语中，多数简单的数如果不是最后面，我们用“两”，很少用“二”，在最后面则一直用“二”。两千元，两块钱，三十二斤。两万两千两百二十二。在发音方面，“两”发得比较慢，因此感觉省力，而“二”是4声调，发音更费力。因此，根据节奏要求，我们平时口语会选择用“两”还是“二”。汉语发音最讲究“抑扬顿挫”，为此我们有很多变化的
Daniel Yang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-03T14:08:44.990Z
This article is famous, but it was written in 1925. Chinese at that time is (slightly?) different from what it is like now.
fefe
<grammar>
Why is the phrase 我與父親不相見已二年餘了 correct?
# Why is the phrase 我與父親不相見已二年餘了 correct?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-04-14)

The phrase:

> 我與父親不相見已二年餘了

is from a text widely praised by my Chinese friends and you can find it [here](http://www.pushkinskijdom.ru/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=f8PxhqYSkeQ%3D&tabid=11290). I don't think they share a dialect, except mandarin, so I assume it is not a dialect. According to my understanding, the text means "it's been more than two years, since father and I last saw each other." The author lived till 1948, so I assume this is not a form of very antiquated Chinese, but it puzzles me for two reasons:

1. Use of 二年 and not 兩年，I have also seen 二位姑娘，but only in period dramata, so I assumed it was antiquated.

Edit: it seems use of 二年 was not so unusual in the past. Compare also the Qing Dynasty work [清宮禁二年記](https://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&res=119542)

2. Use of 不見，not 沒見。Is this the difference between "it's been two years since I saw him" and "haven't seen him in two years"?

**Tags:** grammar
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: re  1: see sample sentences for 二年 at jukuu, e.g. 6.  I have not seen him for at least two years.  至少二年没有见到他了。    re 2:  last 4 of top comments of https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/17252/can-i-say-%e6%b2%a1-to-negate-future-events/17289#17289 esp. start of 3rd comment:２。在明确强调主观愿望的句子中，＂不＂也可以用于过去；  
> **username_2**: It is just a  common style in the early 20th century. A transition period of the classical Chinese to modern Chinese. It is not appropriate to use modern grammar to analyze that, otherswise, writings by 鲁迅 would have a lot of grammar mistakes.  
> **username_1**: 1st comment refers to earlier question quoting reference book ＂实用汉语近义虚词词典＂（find ４ examples there）, here is quote  from ＂实用现代汉语语法＂（with 1 example）：常用副词的用法， **十五、不、没（有）** 。。。（一）＂不＂表示对主观愿望和性质状态的否定，多用于现在、将来，  **也可用于过去**  （７）来中国以前，我一个汉字也 **不**  认识。  
> **username_1**: some users feel that 二年余 sounds somewhat unfamiliar,jukuu e.g. returns only 2 samples,  我与父亲不相见已二年余了，我最不能忘记的是他的背 (as above) and ...由于他所受中国过去二年余的英勇抗战的打击，....  
> **username_1**: excerpts from CCG：７。７。１|negative expository sentences|不 negating habitual actions (past,present or future) 他以前常常不上班，７。７。２｜Negative narrative sentences|If a past action did not take place as a result of deliberate non-action   on the part of the subject, the negator 不 is used. 他昨天（故意）不来。那年我们不（打算）在哪儿住两个月。那天他（决定）不吃三次药。  
> **username_0**: @user6065 so, he didn't see his father on purpose?! Let's see if the story confirms that! That would be a useful distinction to know!  
> **username_3**: 1. Surely, 朱自清 did not avoid seeing his father on purpose. 2. The modern way of saying this, I think, is 我與父親已經兩年沒見過了. Early 20th century Chinese are different. 不見 has very ancient use, as seen in 詩經. 3. I would guess at first glance that they did not see each other because they COULD NOT. (Some notion of 不能 is suggested by the character 不)  
> **username_4**: 通常我们不说“二年”，而是“两年”，在现代口语中，多数简单的数如果不是最后面，我们用“两”，很少用“二”，在最后面则一直用“二”。两千元，两块钱，三十二斤。两万两千两百二十二。在发音方面，“两”发得比较慢，因此感觉省力，而“二”是4声调，发音更费力。因此，根据节奏要求，我们平时口语会选择用“两”还是“二”。汉语发音最讲究“抑扬顿挫”，为此我们有很多变化的  
> **username_5**: This article is famous, but it was written in 1925. Chinese at that time is (slightly?) different from what it is like now.  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_6 on 2017-04-15. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

*(Let me know if you read traditional characters better! I'll switch upon request.)*

1. > Use of 二年 and not 兩年，I have also seen 二位姑娘，but only in period dramata, so I assumed it was antiquated.

二年馀 is a Classical construction, and sounds formal / literary / etc. in colloquial Mandarin, which would normally say 两年多. But since this is a written text, the author went through solid classical education, and the author was generally not writing in the most vernacular way possible but communicating with some degree of Classical (i.e. written Chinese) tinges, yes there are some Classical constructions that do not appear in modern colloquial Mandarin.

---

A related phenomenon is that, sometimes people write generally in colloquial Mandarin, but write the characters used in Classical Chinese or formal Mandarin according to the actual meaning, instead of the sound. So you see people write

> 我5月12日-6月3日在上海

but hear them say

> 我5月12**号**到6月3**号**在上海.

The same thing happens with pairs like 角 and 毛, 元 and 块, 已 and 已经, etc.

As for 二位姑娘, that is a script that *actually faithfully* transcribes the spoken language, so the issue there is that the use of 二位 instead of 两位 dates to an older era -- which is why you see that in period dramata.

---

---

2. > Use of 不見，not 沒見。Is this the difference between "it's been two years since I saw him" and "haven't seen him in two years"?

I suppose this is readily understood in English actually.

> 我與父親不相見已二年餘了。
>
> Me and my father **not seeing** each other...

There, you just can't mark the aspect of *have*, or, in Mandarin, 没.

This syntactic choice (the construction of the whole sentence) is not frequently used, so that is probably why you think 没 should be used there. Indeed people normally say this using this construction:

> 我和我父亲已经两年多没见了。

---

There is also an issue of Classical constructions: 相 + [verb] meaning "to *[verb]* each other" is normal in Classical Chinese, but no longer active or productive in colloquial Mandarin. People speak colloquial Mandarin, so of course they don't say

> 我和父亲不相见...

because you need to do a Classical construction there, and that does not exist in colloquial Mandarin.


---

### Answer by username_7 on 2017-04-15. Score: 0

Maybe because I was reading it rather than having it spoken to me my question was immediately "Why is it *not* correct?" The more you read of the literary language the broader your idea of what is correct will be. I know five words for "I" and have seen two different words for "year" *on the same page*. That said I find this passage barely "literary" at all with the exception of "餘", *maybe*.


---

### Answer by username_8 on 2017-04-15. Score: 0

It's clearly a sentence of vernacular Chinese but it can see the shadow of classical chinese. And I think it's understandable since Chinese start using vernacular Chinese nationally after the 1900s and it took time to transform from classical Chinese to what we see today.
 我與父親不相見已二年餘了

I haven't seen my father more than 2 year.


---

