<p>Actually the 蒜 is evidence of a <em>substrate influence</em> from an Austroasiatic language (ancestor of Vietnamese <em>xoài</em> or Khmer <em>ស្វាយ [svaay]</em>) in this context. Indeed, this lexeme actually does have its own Chinese character, <a href="https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E6%AA%A8" rel="noreferrer"><strong>檨</strong></a>, with Mandarin pronunciation <em>shē</em> (ㄕㄜ).</p>
<p>It is the Hakka and Min varieties which use this <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%AA%A8#Chinese" rel="noreferrer">檨 lexeme</a>:</p>
<ul>
<li>Taiwanese Min Nan: soāiⁿ (Peh-oe-ji), <a href="https://www.moedict.tw/%27%E6%AA%A8" rel="noreferrer">suāinn</a> (Tai-lo), ㄙㄨㆮ˫ (Zhuyin)</li>
<li>Fuzhounese Min Dong: <a href="https://www.ydict.net/feng/p291_23" rel="noreferrer">suông</a> (Bang-ua-ce)</li>
<li>Taiwanese Hakka: sôn (Phak-fa-sü)</li>
</ul>
<p>In many of these varieties, the pronunications of <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%92%9C" rel="noreferrer">蒜</a> are very close:</p>
<ul>
<li>Taiwanese Min Nan: soàn (Peh-oe-ji)</li>
<li>Fuzhounese Min Dong: sáung (Bang-ua-ce)</li>
<li>Taiwanese Hakka: son (Phak-fa-sü)</li>
</ul>
<p>Hence the substitution of 蒜 was motivated by phonetic similarity (假借) with the lack of &quot;availability&quot; of this 檨 character.</p>
<p>In many of these, the collocation 番檨, preferred in Min Dong and certain varieties of Hakka, may help distinguish it from just 蒜. Or it may just be that mangoes came a bit later to the northeastern Fujian area than the southern area.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-12-31T16:42:07.973Z
That seems like a much more reasonable explanation than, "western garlic."
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-12-31T23:40:10.923Z
For those who are interested, the [*Nôm*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%E1%BB%AF_N%C3%B4m) character for Vietnamese **xoài** is  ([U+234B1](http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=234b1), [IDS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_description_languages#Ideographic_Description_Sequences): ⿰木吹).
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-12-31T16:20:56.373Z
2020-12-31T17:28:58.427Z
2020-12-31T17:28:58.427Z
Michaelyus
<p>Flipping through Endymion Wilkinson's <em>Chinese History: A New Manual</em> I came across the following excerpt:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>36 Food &amp; Drink<br />
36.7 Ming-Qing<br />
Mangoes: fansuan 番蒜, mangguo 芒果 (Malay mangga?)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>番蒜 is a very funny word to call mangoes. 番蒜 is basically made up of two parts:</p>
<ul>
<li>番 = foreign</li>
<li>蒜 = garlic</li>
</ul>
<p>Did the ancients really think mangos were garlic like? Or am I missing something?</p>

<meaning>
Did the ancients really think mangoes were garlic like?
# Did the ancients really think mangoes were garlic like?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-12-31)

Flipping through Endymion Wilkinson's *Chinese History: A New Manual* I came across the following excerpt:

> 36 Food & Drink  
> 36.7 Ming-Qing  
> Mangoes: fansuan 番蒜, mangguo 芒果 (Malay mangga?)

番蒜 is a very funny word to call mangoes. 番蒜 is basically made up of two parts:

* 番 = foreign
* 蒜 = garlic

Did the ancients really think mangos were garlic like? Or am I missing something?

**Tags:** meaning

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2020-12-31. Score: 10 | Accepted answer

Actually the 蒜 is evidence of a *substrate influence* from an Austroasiatic language (ancestor of Vietnamese *xoài* or Khmer *ស្វាយ [svaay]*) in this context. Indeed, this lexeme actually does have its own Chinese character, [**檨**](https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E6%AA%A8), with Mandarin pronunciation *shē* (ㄕㄜ).

It is the Hakka and Min varieties which use this [檨 lexeme](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%AA%A8#Chinese):

* Taiwanese Min Nan: soāiⁿ (Peh-oe-ji), [suāinn](https://www.moedict.tw/%27%E6%AA%A8) (Tai-lo), ㄙㄨㆮ˫ (Zhuyin)
* Fuzhounese Min Dong: [suông](https://www.ydict.net/feng/p291_23) (Bang-ua-ce)
* Taiwanese Hakka: sôn (Phak-fa-sü)

In many of these varieties, the pronunications of [蒜](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%92%9C) are very close:

* Taiwanese Min Nan: soàn (Peh-oe-ji)
* Fuzhounese Min Dong: sáung (Bang-ua-ce)
* Taiwanese Hakka: son (Phak-fa-sü)

Hence the substitution of 蒜 was motivated by phonetic similarity (假借) with the lack of "availability" of this 檨 character.

In many of these, the collocation 番檨, preferred in Min Dong and certain varieties of Hakka, may help distinguish it from just 蒜. Or it may just be that mangoes came a bit later to the northeastern Fujian area than the southern area.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: That seems like a much more reasonable explanation than, "western garlic."  
> **username_2**: For those who are interested, the [*Nôm*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%E1%BB%AF_N%C3%B4m) character for Vietnamese **xoài** is  ([U+234B1](http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=234b1), [IDS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_description_languages#Ideographic_Description_Sequences): ⿰木吹).  

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