<p>Another term, colloquially, in some specific areas like games, is 菜鸟. For example, 他就是一个菜鸟 means he is an underdog. You can also say 这只球队 太菜了/是菜鸟，meaning that team sucks. A fascinating term is 虐菜， like 我最喜欢虐菜了！</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T03:18:49.530Z
Isn't 菜鸟 more like n00b? Underdog doesn't usually carry the idea of newbie.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T03:24:30.130Z
@user3306356 菜鸟 isn't necessarily be a newbie. You could have played a game for a quite long time, but you could still be a 菜鸟.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T03:27:53.307Z
@user3306356 saying one is 菜 doesn't mean he is new, but he sucks.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T05:03:05.890Z
@user3306356 we usually use 新手 to describe a newbie. For example, 新手上路, we don't say 菜鸟上路， which sounds silly and funny.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T05:40:49.637Z
There is literally a book called《菜鸟上路》https://item.jd.com/11654546.html to inform newbie drivers about road safety & it was published in 2015, it clearly is not a new concept. Just saying. Perhaps it's a regional thing -or- a generational thing then, idk. The answer I posted below has an excerpt from Wikipedia which does, similarly, give **鸟队**, so I will suppose 菜鸟 is probably acceptable as well.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T06:54:06.023Z
@user3306356 I think that book is trying to be funnily attractive because people are so bored with 新手上路. Again, if say you are a 菜鸟， it doesn't primarily mean you are a newbie, but you suck at something. Of course, most of time, a newbie is a 菜鸟. But it's not true vice versa.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T07:08:46.460Z
In driving, most of 菜鸟 are newbies. So, it makes sense in that context. But in other cases, you wouldn't call a newbie, who is very skillful and can kick your ass, a 菜鸟.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T09:26:07.460Z
That’s my whole point!
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T14:56:06.800Z
@user3306356 I am from Taiwan, born in 1952. You're right about 菜鸟. Please see [wiki](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E8%8F%9C%E9%B3%A5): 有人認為「菜鳥」一詞源於台灣口語。在台灣，菜鳥一詞原是指軍隊中新進的軍人（新兵），不論是義務役或是志願役，包括軍校學生中的新生，皆會被稱作菜鳥（相對應的語彙則是老鳥，指在該單位上較資深者）。這樣的稱呼有時帶有輕蔑、貶抑的意味。用於網路中特指「網路新手」。
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T14:58:42.457Z
It really means rookie. The usage of 菜鳥 started in Taiwan in late 1950/early 1960. People of my age in Taiwan would know about this. You can ask around.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T22:49:19.253Z
@scaaahu regarding the origin of the term 菜鸟, there are couple of them. The one you got is one of them. See this link from baidu: https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/64905045.html
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T22:51:08.610Z
@scaaahu the first one is more close to the usage within the mainland: 菜鸟本意是用于作菜的鸟类，现在菜鸟也指在其它方面应用水平较低者。如在教学方面的低水平者会被他人戏称为“菜鸟教师”等。this can be regional I think.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-22T02:37:16.400Z
The usage of 菜鸟 for 作菜的鸟类 started from _改革开发以后_,(from your source)  that is in late 1970 and 1980's. The usage in your answer originated from Taiwan. This is my point.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-22T03:00:50.447Z
@scaaahu no matter what the origin it is. We have to admit that there is a slight difference in usage between two sides I think.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-20T21:50:56.030Z
2018-06-20T22:31:22.840Z
2018-06-20T22:31:22.840Z
dan
<p>Wikipedia lists a bunch of terms under its <a href="https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E9%AD%9A%E8%85%A9%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A" rel="nofollow noreferrer">鱼腩部队</a> entry which links to and from the English page for <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underdog" rel="nofollow noreferrer">underdog</a>. Here's the explanation of <em>鱼腩部队</em>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>鱼腩部队（简称鱼腩），亦称送分童子，通常指竞赛中，一些成绩十分差、输多赢少、实力明显比其他对手弱很多的参赛队伍。此语汇常见于体育竞赛的评述中，同时也是赌桌上的术语，指赌博中常输的一方。</p>
<p>鱼腩原指食用鱼的鱼腹部位。鱼腹的特点是肉较厚，且鱼骨较少，容易食用，所以引申形容竞赛中一些实力明显较弱，每战多败的参赛队伍，对手要战胜这些队伍如同食用鱼腩一样没有难度，故形容这些参赛队伍为鱼腩部队。2007–08赛季英格兰超级联赛的打比郡足球队就是最好的例子，当届打比郡全季38场联赛只取得1场胜仗，却输掉29场，得11分打破英超一季得分最低纪录。<a href="https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E9%AD%9A%E8%85%A9%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A" rel="nofollow noreferrer">1</a></p>
<p>这用语本是民间的俚俗说法，最初源自广东话，后来广泛应用于香港的体育竞赛评述中，近年中国大陆媒体也常常在体育资讯中使用上。台湾则通常会以“陪榜”、“弱队”甚至“鸟队”来指称类似的观念。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Terms used in the excerpt:</p>
<ul>
<li>鱼腩部队</li>
<li>鱼腩</li>
<li>送分童子</li>
<li>陪榜</li>
<li>弱队</li>
<li>鸟队</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T03:23:05.953Z
2018-06-21T03:23:05.953Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
Mou某
<p>underdog, i would consider "下駟", thought dog is not horse (馬)　</p>

<p><a href="http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&amp;searchid=Z00000105734" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&amp;searchid=Z00000105734</a></p>

<p>no-one remembers 田忌's strategy?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-20T16:07:53.500Z
田忌's story is famous but 下駟 is an obscure allusion (and would sound weird in the context of modern Chinese).
Stan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-20T16:34:58.250Z
weird? yes, i agree with you. another evidence that i'm 古老石山, cause i'm only interested in literatures of yore. maybe, when someone need to quote the classic (引經據典), 下駟 would be appropriate :)
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-20T15:18:55.483Z
2018-06-20T15:18:55.483Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>As a native Chinese speaker, my choice is</p>
<p>黑馬</p>
<p>From <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underdog" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Underdog</a> Wiki page</p>
<blockquote>
<p>An underdog is a person or group in a competition, usually in sports and creative works, who is popularly expected to lose …</p>
</blockquote>
<p>From <a href="https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/53146021.html?qbl=relate_question_0" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Baidu</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>黑马 dark horse</p>
<p>冷门 an unexpected winner; dark horse</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-22T14:57:13.907Z
冷门 is everywhere atm, I never thought to put it together with underdog. Nice one!
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-23T05:02:04.483Z
@user3306356 Both 黑马 and 冷门 are terminologies in gambling. I personally prefer 黑马 because the question is about underdog (both are animals). But, if your question was to ask how to describe the Iceland football team, I would answer 冷门.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-23T09:07:56.553Z
My only aversion to 黑马 is that there is a similar word in English: dark horse. A dark horse is exactly an underdog though so probably I’m just overthinking it.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-22T13:09:07.233Z
2018-06-22T13:09:07.233Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
Nobody
<p>There's no single word to translate underdog. This is the beauty of languages. Often you can't simply translate a single word. You have to consider the whole sentence and rephrase it in ways more commonly expressed in the target language. As a result, when asking for translation</p>

<p><strong>处于劣势的一方 and 居于下风者 are the better translation if picking among those.</strong> </p>

<p>弱者 means someone who's weak or inferior. 失敗者, 失敗的一方 means loser or someone who's defeated. These are wrong translations with different meaning.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>The underdog team scored two surprise goals.</p>
  
  <p>處於劣勢的一隊出人意料地進兩球。</p>
</blockquote>

<p>This is from a dictionary. But <strong>it's more common to say [Name of the team]隊出人意料地進了兩球。 Because 'underdog' is sort of implied in '出人意料地'。</strong></p>

<hr>

<p>As for what @scaaahu suggested, 黑馬 could be used as the translation, BUT only if the team has won. And it'll only be used in sentences like: 他/某某隊是這次比賽的黑馬。 黑馬 is of the contest or competition. The underdog team cannot be translated to 黑馬隊, which sounds weird.</p>

<p>I think 黑馬 means the same as dark horse in English. From oxford dictionary, </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>dark horse: a candidate or competitor about whom little is known but who
  unexpectedly wins or succeeds</p>
</blockquote>

<p>and from 教育部國語辭典,</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>黑馬：比喻競賽中出乎眾人意料之外的獲勝者</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Notice dark horse and 黑馬 don't have the meaning about the little chance of winning that underdog conveys. 黑馬 may implied it, but not necessarily.</p>

<hr>

<p>菜鳥 means exactly newbie. But when using just 菜 as an adjective, it can mean bad at something and/or describing a newbie.</p>

<p>As a native Chinese speaker, I've never heard of 魚腩部隊, and I'd say it's not just me. Don't use that. People probably won't understand.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-24T01:24:31.003Z
2018-06-24T01:24:31.003Z
thyu
<p>Why aren't you happy with what you find?</p>

<p>underdog is a word attested since 1887 from dog fights for entertainment.</p>

<p>"the beaten dog in a fight," 1887, from under + dog (n.). Compare top dog "dominant person in a situation or hierarchy" (see top (adj.)).</p>

<p>As such, ‘underdog’ refers to the dog which lost, or, because weak, is less likely to win.</p>

<p>Used metaphorically, it refers to the weaker party, who may, however, win unexpectedly. Very topical at this time of the World Cup.</p>

<p>I think '劣势群体 = inferior group' translates underdog nicely.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-21T09:42:57.930Z
2018-06-21T09:42:57.930Z
Pedroski
<p>Mined from an opinion post (<a href="http://blog.sciencenet.cn/blog-39731-510338.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://blog.sciencenet.cn/blog-39731-510338.html</a>):</p>

<ul>
<li>劣勢者</li>
<li>弱勢者</li>
<li>新[入/行/進]者</li>
<li>後來者</li>
</ul>

<p>I personally prefer the first one as the best translation; 弱勢 is a bit broader in meaning as it can mean <em>weak</em> in general rather than in comparison to something. The other ones just mean <em>newcomer</em>, so the disadvantage of being an underdog is only implied rather than explicitly stated.</p>

<p>You may also want to check out <strong>弱旅</strong> (opposite: 勁旅).</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-20T14:07:52.443Z
2018-06-20T14:17:20.027Z
2018-06-20T14:17:20.027Z
dROOOze
<p>Underdog has a lot of mediocre translations </p>

<p><em>ABC English-Chinese</em> gives:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>处于劣势的一方</p>
</blockquote>

<p><em>Oxford</em> has:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>弱者</p>
</blockquote>

<p>which is <em>okay</em> and:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>失败者<br>
  失败的一方</p>
</blockquote>

<p>which don't really match the meaning of underdog to begin with.</p>

<p><em>New Century English</em> gives:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>居于下风者</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Except for <em>弱者</em>, the rest are quite wordy. While <em>弱者</em> itself is alright it's a bit ambiguous without the proper context.</p>

<p>Are there no better colloquial translations of <em>underdog</em>?</p>

<translation><word-requests>
Better translation for "underdog"?
# Better translation for "underdog"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-06-20)

Underdog has a lot of mediocre translations

*ABC English-Chinese* gives:

> 处于劣势的一方

*Oxford* has:

> 弱者

which is *okay* and:

> 失败者  
> 失败的一方

which don't really match the meaning of underdog to begin with.

*New Century English* gives:

> 居于下风者

Except for *弱者*, the rest are quite wordy. While *弱者* itself is alright it's a bit ambiguous without the proper context.

Are there no better colloquial translations of *underdog*?

**Tags:** translation, word-requests

---

## 7 answers

### Answer by username_7 on 2018-06-20. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

Mined from an opinion post (<http://blog.sciencenet.cn/blog-39731-510338.html>):

* 劣勢者
* 弱勢者
* 新[入/行/進]者
* 後來者

I personally prefer the first one as the best translation; 弱勢 is a bit broader in meaning as it can mean *weak* in general rather than in comparison to something. The other ones just mean *newcomer*, so the disadvantage of being an underdog is only implied rather than explicitly stated.

You may also want to check out **弱旅** (opposite: 勁旅).


---

### Answer by username_1 on 2018-06-20. Score: 2

Another term, colloquially, in some specific areas like games, is 菜鸟. For example, 他就是一个菜鸟 means he is an underdog. You can also say 这只球队 太菜了/是菜鸟，meaning that team sucks. A fascinating term is 虐菜， like 我最喜欢虐菜了！

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Isn't 菜鸟 more like n00b? Underdog doesn't usually carry the idea of newbie.  
> **username_1**: @user3306356 菜鸟 isn't necessarily be a newbie. You could have played a game for a quite long time, but you could still be a 菜鸟.  
> **username_1**: @user3306356 saying one is 菜 doesn't mean he is new, but he sucks.  
> **username_1**: @user3306356 we usually use 新手 to describe a newbie. For example, 新手上路, we don't say 菜鸟上路， which sounds silly and funny.  
> **username_0**: There is literally a book called《菜鸟上路》https://item.jd.com/11654546.html to inform newbie drivers about road safety & it was published in 2015, it clearly is not a new concept. Just saying. Perhaps it's a regional thing -or- a generational thing then, idk. The answer I posted below has an excerpt from Wikipedia which does, similarly, give **鸟队**, so I will suppose 菜鸟 is probably acceptable as well.  
> **username_1**: @user3306356 I think that book is trying to be funnily attractive because people are so bored with 新手上路. Again, if say you are a 菜鸟， it doesn't primarily mean you are a newbie, but you suck at something. Of course, most of time, a newbie is a 菜鸟. But it's not true vice versa.  
> **username_1**: In driving, most of 菜鸟 are newbies. So, it makes sense in that context. But in other cases, you wouldn't call a newbie, who is very skillful and can kick your ass, a 菜鸟.  
> **username_0**: That’s my whole point!  
> **username_2**: @user3306356 I am from Taiwan, born in 1952. You're right about 菜鸟. Please see [wiki](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E8%8F%9C%E9%B3%A5): 有人認為「菜鳥」一詞源於台灣口語。在台灣，菜鳥一詞原是指軍隊中新進的軍人（新兵），不論是義務役或是志願役，包括軍校學生中的新生，皆會被稱作菜鳥（相對應的語彙則是老鳥，指在該單位上較資深者）。這樣的稱呼有時帶有輕蔑、貶抑的意味。用於網路中特指「網路新手」。  
> **username_2**: It really means rookie. The usage of 菜鳥 started in Taiwan in late 1950/early 1960. People of my age in Taiwan would know about this. You can ask around.  
> **username_1**: @scaaahu regarding the origin of the term 菜鸟, there are couple of them. The one you got is one of them. See this link from baidu: https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/64905045.html  
> **username_1**: @scaaahu the first one is more close to the usage within the mainland: 菜鸟本意是用于作菜的鸟类，现在菜鸟也指在其它方面应用水平较低者。如在教学方面的低水平者会被他人戏称为“菜鸟教师”等。this can be regional I think.  
> **username_2**: The usage of 菜鸟 for 作菜的鸟类 started from _改革开发以后_,(from your source)  that is in late 1970 and 1980's. The usage in your answer originated from Taiwan. This is my point.  
> **username_1**: @scaaahu no matter what the origin it is. We have to admit that there is a slight difference in usage between two sides I think.  

---

### Answer by username_0 on 2018-06-21. Score: 1

Wikipedia lists a bunch of terms under its [鱼腩部队](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E9%AD%9A%E8%85%A9%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A) entry which links to and from the English page for [underdog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underdog). Here's the explanation of *鱼腩部队*:

> 鱼腩部队（简称鱼腩），亦称送分童子，通常指竞赛中，一些成绩十分差、输多赢少、实力明显比其他对手弱很多的参赛队伍。此语汇常见于体育竞赛的评述中，同时也是赌桌上的术语，指赌博中常输的一方。
>
> 鱼腩原指食用鱼的鱼腹部位。鱼腹的特点是肉较厚，且鱼骨较少，容易食用，所以引申形容竞赛中一些实力明显较弱，每战多败的参赛队伍，对手要战胜这些队伍如同食用鱼腩一样没有难度，故形容这些参赛队伍为鱼腩部队。2007–08赛季英格兰超级联赛的打比郡足球队就是最好的例子，当届打比郡全季38场联赛只取得1场胜仗，却输掉29场，得11分打破英超一季得分最低纪录。[1](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E9%AD%9A%E8%85%A9%E9%83%A8%E9%9A%8A)
>
> 这用语本是民间的俚俗说法，最初源自广东话，后来广泛应用于香港的体育竞赛评述中，近年中国大陆媒体也常常在体育资讯中使用上。台湾则通常会以“陪榜”、“弱队”甚至“鸟队”来指称类似的观念。

Terms used in the excerpt:

* 鱼腩部队
* 鱼腩
* 送分童子
* 陪榜
* 弱队
* 鸟队


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2018-06-20. Score: 1

underdog, i would consider "下駟", thought dog is not horse (馬)

<http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=Z00000105734>

no-one remembers 田忌's strategy?

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: 田忌's story is famous but 下駟 is an obscure allusion (and would sound weird in the context of modern Chinese).  
> **username_3**: weird? yes, i agree with you. another evidence that i'm 古老石山, cause i'm only interested in literatures of yore. maybe, when someone need to quote the classic (引經據典), 下駟 would be appropriate :)  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2018-06-22. Score: 1

As a native Chinese speaker, my choice is

黑馬

From [Underdog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underdog) Wiki page

> An underdog is a person or group in a competition, usually in sports and creative works, who is popularly expected to lose …

From [Baidu](https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/53146021.html?qbl=relate_question_0)

> 黑马 dark horse
>
> 冷门 an unexpected winner; dark horse

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: 冷门 is everywhere atm, I never thought to put it together with underdog. Nice one!  
> **username_2**: @user3306356 Both 黑马 and 冷门 are terminologies in gambling. I personally prefer 黑马 because the question is about underdog (both are animals). But, if your question was to ask how to describe the Iceland football team, I would answer 冷门.  
> **username_0**: My only aversion to 黑马 is that there is a similar word in English: dark horse. A dark horse is exactly an underdog though so probably I’m just overthinking it.  

---

### Answer by username_5 on 2018-06-24. Score: 0

There's no single word to translate underdog. This is the beauty of languages. Often you can't simply translate a single word. You have to consider the whole sentence and rephrase it in ways more commonly expressed in the target language. As a result, when asking for translation

**处于劣势的一方 and 居于下风者 are the better translation if picking among those.**

弱者 means someone who's weak or inferior. 失敗者, 失敗的一方 means loser or someone who's defeated. These are wrong translations with different meaning.

> The underdog team scored two surprise goals.
>
> 處於劣勢的一隊出人意料地進兩球。

This is from a dictionary. But **it's more common to say [Name of the team]隊出人意料地進了兩球。 Because 'underdog' is sort of implied in '出人意料地'。**

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As for what @scaaahu suggested, 黑馬 could be used as the translation, BUT only if the team has won. And it'll only be used in sentences like: 他/某某隊是這次比賽的黑馬。 黑馬 is of the contest or competition. The underdog team cannot be translated to 黑馬隊, which sounds weird.

I think 黑馬 means the same as dark horse in English. From oxford dictionary,

> dark horse: a candidate or competitor about whom little is known but who
> unexpectedly wins or succeeds

and from 教育部國語辭典,

> 黑馬：比喻競賽中出乎眾人意料之外的獲勝者

Notice dark horse and 黑馬 don't have the meaning about the little chance of winning that underdog conveys. 黑馬 may implied it, but not necessarily.

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菜鳥 means exactly newbie. But when using just 菜 as an adjective, it can mean bad at something and/or describing a newbie.

As a native Chinese speaker, I've never heard of 魚腩部隊, and I'd say it's not just me. Don't use that. People probably won't understand.


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### Answer by username_6 on 2018-06-21. Score: 0

Why aren't you happy with what you find?

underdog is a word attested since 1887 from dog fights for entertainment.

"the beaten dog in a fight," 1887, from under + dog (n.). Compare top dog "dominant person in a situation or hierarchy" (see top (adj.)).

As such, ‘underdog’ refers to the dog which lost, or, because weak, is less likely to win.

Used metaphorically, it refers to the weaker party, who may, however, win unexpectedly. Very topical at this time of the World Cup.

I think '劣势群体 = inferior group' translates underdog nicely.


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