<p><em>The following may be folk etymology. More research is needed - specifically, textual evidence of when</em>「正斗」<em>started being in use among the general public.</em></p>

<hr>

<p>「正斗」originated as a term in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiation" rel="nofollow noreferrer">initiation rituals</a> of Chinese secret societies or criminal underworld groups. The details of the ritual vary from <a href="https://hk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061110000051KK00693&amp;guccounter=1&amp;guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&amp;guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF2wew7jyyu6Ihso6ki_hr5mgL9gKaSgCuM59wvjkndrpEaK5XPyyZYnztPmyGn3sWtDMISPUsvLYI-fX3Dxl1QbSA3rFDkuEh4A7DNvHH1SbYQUZz4dNb8M80WVbcxuK5qC3cnrhyZFwDsI5Rxn5cwthbqhdO8heMvECpwatR8y" rel="nofollow noreferrer">source</a> to <a href="http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/stanleyyim/post/3789046" rel="nofollow noreferrer">source</a>, but the ritual is said to involve a wooden ladle (斗).</p>

<p>The term「正」in「正斗」refers to the meaning <em>orthodoxy</em>, that is, orthodoxy of the rites or the members/leader involved in the rites of the secret society.「正斗」then refers to those who have successfully entered the society through the orthodox initiation ritual, also indicating the meaning <em>proper, dignified</em>. This stands in contrast to non-members or pretenders who did not know the rites (非正斗 or 假斗).</p>

<p>Later on, the term「正斗」permeated general society, and「正斗」gained the meaning <em>of high quality, awesome</em>, etc.</p>

<hr>

<p><strong>References</strong>:</p>

<ul>
<li><p><a href="https://hk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061110000051KK00693&amp;guccounter=1&amp;guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&amp;guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF2wew7jyyu6Ihso6ki_hr5mgL9gKaSgCuM59wvjkndrpEaK5XPyyZYnztPmyGn3sWtDMISPUsvLYI-fX3Dxl1QbSA3rFDkuEh4A7DNvHH1SbYQUZz4dNb8M80WVbcxuK5qC3cnrhyZFwDsI5Rxn5cwthbqhdO8heMvECpwatR8y" rel="nofollow noreferrer">廣東話中 -- 好正-- 一詞 - hk.answers.yahoo.com</a></p></li>
<li><p><a href="http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/stanleyyim/post/3789046" rel="nofollow noreferrer">香港黑社會用語舉隅 - mypaper.pchome.com.tw</a></p></li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:26:40.973Z
*in contrast to non-members or pretenders who did not know the rites (非正斗 or 假斗).*  假斗 was then misread and became another common Cantonese term "渣斗" (low quality); (weak)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:29:35.957Z
@TangHo I remember something similar in Mandarin, don't know if it's connected to the Cantonese term. 豆腐渣工程 means *crappy engineering design/job/product*.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:32:09.300Z
渣 /zaa1/ (waste products) in 豆腐渣 is not related to the 渣 /zaa2/ in 渣斗(假斗) which is a sound-alike word. 豆腐 is already soft, and the 渣 (waste products) of tofu would be even less solid
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:35:42.657Z
@TangHo I don't know if 渣斗 comes from 假斗 (haven't found any other references backing that explanation up). There doesn't seem to be any reason for 假斗 to be misread as 渣斗, unless they were trying to avoid the secret society term 假斗 by using a sound-alike.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:51:31.553Z
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?14,132181,132189#msg-132189 *Q:"I wonder why there's no definition of " weak / poor quality" on the 渣 character page."*

*A: "Because several editors have been using 鮓 [zaa2] for the “low quality” meaning when adding the relevant word entries.
It is also founded that 鮓 is supported by 廣州話正音字典 (p.619), 廣州話方言詞典 (p.270), and 廣州話普通話詞典 (p.455)*". It seems to me "鮓" might came from 渣.  Or  假 in or 假斗 was replaced by 鮓(wrongly written as 渣) in Cantonese
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:20:52.827Z
2019-12-01T09:58:06.163Z
2019-12-01T09:58:06.163Z
dROOOze
<p>The Cantonese term &quot;正斗&quot; means &quot;great&quot; or &quot;of high quality&quot;</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/words/41458/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">正斗</a></p>
<p>an exclamation that sth is &quot;great!&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>~</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="http://kaifangcidian.com/han/yue/%E6%AD%A3%E6%96%97" rel="nofollow noreferrer">正斗</a></p>
<p>好，美，正牌，正規，地道，純正，漂亮，質量好</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can understand why 正(authentic) is used in  &quot;正斗&quot; which mean &quot;high quality&quot; (people believe in authentic goods is of high quality) But I don't get the role of &quot;斗&quot; in this phrase. I tried to search the web but most of the results are related to a restaurant called &quot;正斗&quot;.</p>
<p><em>I hate it when a common term is used as a movies title, restaurant name etc. Make it difficult to search the original meaning on the web</em></p>
<p>Examples of &quot;正斗&quot; in a sentence</p>
<p>呢啲係<strong>正斗貨</strong>嚟架 (This is <strong>high quality goods</strong>)</p>
<p>有冇<strong>正斗野</strong>介紹 (Any suggestion of <strong>great stuffs</strong>?)</p>
<p>佢女朋友<strong>好正斗</strong>架 (Her girlfriend is <strong>very pretty</strong>)</p>
<p>One thing I noticed is 正斗 and 正 basically are interchangeable when it is referring &quot;great&quot; or &quot;high quality&quot;</p>
<p>正斗貨 = 正貨 (high quality goods)</p>
<p>正斗野 = 正野 (great stuff)</p>
<p>My question is, what &quot;斗&quot; refers to in &quot;正斗&quot;?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T08:34:02.890Z
See [this explanation](https://hk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061110000051KK00693&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF2wew7jyyu6Ihso6ki_hr5mgL9gKaSgCuM59wvjkndrpEaK5XPyyZYnztPmyGn3sWtDMISPUsvLYI-fX3Dxl1QbSA3rFDkuEh4A7DNvHH1SbYQUZz4dNb8M80WVbcxuK5qC3cnrhyZFwDsI5Rxn5cwthbqhdO8heMvECpwatR8y), which says it originates from HK TV shows about Qing dynasty secret society qualification rituals. Cannot confirm.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T08:36:45.030Z
@droooze You can quote that article as your answer. However, as you cannot confirm, there might be other explanations out there worth considering
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T08:37:50.307Z
Will try to find more explanations, see if there's any agreement.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T08:49:46.703Z
@droooze I think it is a very plausible answer because it also explained  the origin of another Cantonese term 渣斗 (low quality); (weak)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T08:51:02.920Z
Yes, I found 2 other links saying the same thing. Will write this as an answer. BTW check out https://md.hkgolden.com/view.aspx?message=3548039&type=ST&page=1 which has explanations behind many Cantonese slang terms. Looks very interesting!
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:11:06.713Z
@droooze great read. I know most of the term mentioned, but a few explanations I have never heard of, especially the ones imported from Mandarin like  冇得頂, 唔服燒賣
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-01T09:17:11.327Z
One thing worth mentioning. The term 打包 (take out) is now acceptable in Cantonese since Hong Kong returned to China over twenty years ago, many Mandarin terms have found their ways into Hong Kong Cantonese language
Tang Ho
<meaning><etymology><cantonese>
What "斗" refers to in "正斗"
# What "斗" refers to in "正斗"

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-12-01)

The Cantonese term "正斗" means "great" or "of high quality"

> [正斗](http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/words/41458/)
>
> an exclamation that sth is "great!"

~

> [正斗](http://kaifangcidian.com/han/yue/%E6%AD%A3%E6%96%97)
>
> 好，美，正牌，正規，地道，純正，漂亮，質量好

I can understand why 正(authentic) is used in "正斗" which mean "high quality" (people believe in authentic goods is of high quality) But I don't get the role of "斗" in this phrase. I tried to search the web but most of the results are related to a restaurant called "正斗".

*I hate it when a common term is used as a movies title, restaurant name etc. Make it difficult to search the original meaning on the web*

Examples of "正斗" in a sentence

呢啲係**正斗貨**嚟架 (This is **high quality goods**)

有冇**正斗野**介紹 (Any suggestion of **great stuffs**?)

佢女朋友**好正斗**架 (Her girlfriend is **very pretty**)

One thing I noticed is 正斗 and 正 basically are interchangeable when it is referring "great" or "high quality"

正斗貨 = 正貨 (high quality goods)

正斗野 = 正野 (great stuff)

My question is, what "斗" refers to in "正斗"?

**Tags:** meaning, etymology, cantonese
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: See [this explanation](https://hk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061110000051KK00693&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF2wew7jyyu6Ihso6ki_hr5mgL9gKaSgCuM59wvjkndrpEaK5XPyyZYnztPmyGn3sWtDMISPUsvLYI-fX3Dxl1QbSA3rFDkuEh4A7DNvHH1SbYQUZz4dNb8M80WVbcxuK5qC3cnrhyZFwDsI5Rxn5cwthbqhdO8heMvECpwatR8y), which says it originates from HK TV shows about Qing dynasty secret society qualification rituals. Cannot confirm.  
> **username_0**: @droooze You can quote that article as your answer. However, as you cannot confirm, there might be other explanations out there worth considering  
> **username_1**: Will try to find more explanations, see if there's any agreement.  
> **username_0**: @droooze I think it is a very plausible answer because it also explained  the origin of another Cantonese term 渣斗 (low quality); (weak)  
> **username_1**: Yes, I found 2 other links saying the same thing. Will write this as an answer. BTW check out https://md.hkgolden.com/view.aspx?message=3548039&type=ST&page=1 which has explanations behind many Cantonese slang terms. Looks very interesting!  
> **username_0**: @droooze great read. I know most of the term mentioned, but a few explanations I have never heard of, especially the ones imported from Mandarin like  冇得頂, 唔服燒賣  
> **username_0**: One thing worth mentioning. The term 打包 (take out) is now acceptable in Cantonese since Hong Kong returned to China over twenty years ago, many Mandarin terms have found their ways into Hong Kong Cantonese language  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2019-12-01. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

*The following may be folk etymology. More research is needed - specifically, textual evidence of when*「正斗」*started being in use among the general public.*

---

「正斗」originated as a term in [initiation rituals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiation) of Chinese secret societies or criminal underworld groups. The details of the ritual vary from [source](https://hk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061110000051KK00693&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF2wew7jyyu6Ihso6ki_hr5mgL9gKaSgCuM59wvjkndrpEaK5XPyyZYnztPmyGn3sWtDMISPUsvLYI-fX3Dxl1QbSA3rFDkuEh4A7DNvHH1SbYQUZz4dNb8M80WVbcxuK5qC3cnrhyZFwDsI5Rxn5cwthbqhdO8heMvECpwatR8y) to [source](http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/stanleyyim/post/3789046), but the ritual is said to involve a wooden ladle (斗).

The term「正」in「正斗」refers to the meaning *orthodoxy*, that is, orthodoxy of the rites or the members/leader involved in the rites of the secret society.「正斗」then refers to those who have successfully entered the society through the orthodox initiation ritual, also indicating the meaning *proper, dignified*. This stands in contrast to non-members or pretenders who did not know the rites (非正斗 or 假斗).

Later on, the term「正斗」permeated general society, and「正斗」gained the meaning *of high quality, awesome*, etc.

---

**References**:

* [廣東話中 -- 好正-- 一詞 - hk.answers.yahoo.com](https://hk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061110000051KK00693&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAF2wew7jyyu6Ihso6ki_hr5mgL9gKaSgCuM59wvjkndrpEaK5XPyyZYnztPmyGn3sWtDMISPUsvLYI-fX3Dxl1QbSA3rFDkuEh4A7DNvHH1SbYQUZz4dNb8M80WVbcxuK5qC3cnrhyZFwDsI5Rxn5cwthbqhdO8heMvECpwatR8y)
* [香港黑社會用語舉隅 - mypaper.pchome.com.tw](http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/stanleyyim/post/3789046)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: *in contrast to non-members or pretenders who did not know the rites (非正斗 or 假斗).*  假斗 was then misread and became another common Cantonese term "渣斗" (low quality); (weak)  
> **username_1**: @TangHo I remember something similar in Mandarin, don't know if it's connected to the Cantonese term. 豆腐渣工程 means *crappy engineering design/job/product*.  
> **username_0**: 渣 /zaa1/ (waste products) in 豆腐渣 is not related to the 渣 /zaa2/ in 渣斗(假斗) which is a sound-alike word. 豆腐 is already soft, and the 渣 (waste products) of tofu would be even less solid  
> **username_1**: @TangHo I don't know if 渣斗 comes from 假斗 (haven't found any other references backing that explanation up). There doesn't seem to be any reason for 假斗 to be misread as 渣斗, unless they were trying to avoid the secret society term 假斗 by using a sound-alike.  
> **username_0**: http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?14,132181,132189#msg-132189 *Q:"I wonder why there's no definition of " weak / poor quality" on the 渣 character page."*  *A: "Because several editors have been using 鮓 [zaa2] for the “low quality” meaning when adding the relevant word entries. It is also founded that 鮓 is supported by 廣州話正音字典 (p.619), 廣州話方言詞典 (p.270), and 廣州話普通話詞典 (p.455)*". It seems to me "鮓" might came from 渣.  Or  假 in or 假斗 was replaced by 鮓(wrongly written as 渣) in Cantonese  

---

