<p>Here is the entry for 辣海 in《<a href="http://www.shanghainese.info/download/wugniu/%C9%CF%BA%A3%B7%BD%D1%D4%D4~%B5%E4.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">上海方言词典</a>》on p. 311:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/kQvPe.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/kQvPe.png" alt="enter image description here"></a>
  <a href="https://i.sstatic.net/jwO5C.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/jwO5C.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>
</blockquote>

<p>The extracted text:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>〖辣海〗la?˩˧꜖ he˥꜖꜔ =〖辣辣〗la?˩˧꜖
  la˩˧꜖꜔（或la˩˧꜖꜔）❶表示人或事物的位
  置：小王辣～？ ❷後接表示活動的
  動詞，表示動作、事件正在進行之中：
  大家儕～休息，儂吵 | 伊～想心事
  ❸前接動詞、形容詞或動詞短語，表示
  狀態的持續與北京話不同的是，“辣
  海"和“辣辣"可前接動結式短語，後面
  可加相當於“了"的語氣詞或“仔"：花
  蠻紅～ | 我物事多～崍 | 坐～，能立
  ～嗅 | 肉切好～睞，儂來燒好勒 ❹介
  詞，表示時間、地點、範圍等，多置於謂
  語動詞之前，但現在也有置於謂語動
  詞之後的：～上海工作1坐一臺子高頭
  卩“辣海"目前使用很普遍“海"有人
  説成[ke]“辣海"説成[le ke]</p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<p>There is also this paper <a href="https://xueshu.baidu.com/usercenter/paper/show?paperid=2293f57890242bc38842320f5ee30a8d&amp;site=xueshu_se" rel="nofollow noreferrer">上海话"辣海"的语源及虚化特征的比较研究</a>, in which the abstract says:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/bOOME.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/bOOME.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>
</blockquote>

<p>The extracted text:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>"辣海"是上海话中一个重要的体标记词,本文通过跟邻近的江淮泰如片方言之间的比较研究,考察其来源及作为体标记的虚化过程."辣海"的"辣"本字不是"在",也不是"来",而是南方汉语方言的一个自源词;"海"的本字为"许",存在着不同的读音层次,"辣海"作为体标记在吴语中分别表示动作的进行和状态的持续,在泰如片方言主要表示状态的持续."在下"是"辣海"在泰如方言进一步虚化的产物,具有半虚化的体标记特征.</p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghainese#Tones" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wikipedia</a> also has this entry on their section for Shanghainese tones:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>to exist, here, present    [lɐʔ.hɛ]    徕許, 勒許</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:00:21.897Z
But what about 垃海? Doesn’t 辣海 mean something else?
Cookie Dough
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:02:21.273Z
@CookieDough It looks like their are multiple spellings for this word. The original spelling should be 来许 from what I can gather.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:23:54.780Z
来(come) 许 (about) + time = "by  + time" make sense
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:45:17.427Z
@Tang Ho Would I use 垃海 or 来许? Tatoeba doesn’t bring up anything when I try the latter - does this mean it isn’t used anymore?
Cookie Dough
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:47:22.303Z
I am not 上海人, so I wouldn't know which is the more common way to write this term
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:48:01.300Z
@CookieDough I would recommend using "辣海"; it doesn't really matter what the etymologically correct spelling is if you can't be understood.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:56:10.073Z
@CookieDough I've added info from Wikipedia where they write it 徕許, 勒許.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T21:59:39.983Z
There are similar cases in Cantonese, For example: 等/dang2/ is pronounced as  /ting3 / colloquially. Which  is exactly the same as  聽 when it is in colloquial form. Some people would write 等坐監 (wait to be put in prison) as 聽坐監  and not many people would object
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T22:04:05.597Z
The reason may be:  聽 (hear) also has the meaning of "to anticipate" as in 聽胡 ( one more match to win a game in Mahjong)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T10:22:14.160Z
@Tang Ho 徕許 and 勒許 don’t seem to show up on Wiktionary, so I don’t know how accurate that is.
Cookie Dough
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T10:25:06.410Z
May be 徕許 or 勒許 had been replaced by 垃海 for too long,  and they became archaic
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T12:38:38.757Z
@CookieDough Not sure why you're asking Tang Ho, he's not the one who answered the question. Wiktionary is a very limited resource and it is missing a lot of entries.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-11T14:08:22.310Z
@user3306356 please recommend me another resource to use. I'm aware that Wiktionary isn't the best resource to use, but there aren't that many resources for English speakers (besides wu-chinese.com) and my Mandarin isn't that good.
Cookie Dough
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-10T20:53:21.467Z
2020-06-14T12:01:30.567Z
2020-06-14T12:01:30.567Z
Mou某
<blockquote>
  <p>我会得垃海九点钟回来</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The mandarin equivalent is 我会在九点钟回来.  So, 垃海 means 在 here.  垃海 is not pronounced as its Pinyin "la1 hai3". It's more like "le gai2" or "le gei2". </p>

<p>Not sure the correct writing of the word anyway. Maybe "了该" is closer?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-13T10:50:32.437Z
2020-06-13T10:59:08.243Z
2020-06-13T10:59:08.243Z
dan
<p>I found this sentence on Tatoeba:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我会得垃海九点钟回来.<br>
  I will be back by nine.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>What does ‘垃海’ mean in this sentence? My guess is ‘by [nine]’, but the phrase doesn’t show up on Wiktionary.</p>

<translation><phrase-meaning><shanghainese>
What does 垃海 mean in Shanghainese?
# What does 垃海 mean in Shanghainese?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-06-10)

I found this sentence on Tatoeba:

> 我会得垃海九点钟回来.  
> I will be back by nine.

What does ‘垃海’ mean in this sentence? My guess is ‘by [nine]’, but the phrase doesn’t show up on Wiktionary.

**Tags:** translation, phrase-meaning, shanghainese

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2020-06-10. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

Here is the entry for 辣海 in《[上海方言词典](http://www.shanghainese.info/download/wugniu/%C9%CF%BA%A3%B7%BD%D1%D4%D4~%B5%E4.pdf)》on p. 311:

> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/kQvPe.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/kQvPe.png)
> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/jwO5C.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/jwO5C.png)

The extracted text:

> 〖辣海〗la?˩˧꜖ he˥꜖꜔ =〖辣辣〗la?˩˧꜖
> la˩˧꜖꜔（或la˩˧꜖꜔）❶表示人或事物的位
> 置：小王辣～？ ❷後接表示活動的
> 動詞，表示動作、事件正在進行之中：
> 大家儕～休息，儂吵 | 伊～想心事
> ❸前接動詞、形容詞或動詞短語，表示
> 狀態的持續與北京話不同的是，“辣
> 海"和“辣辣"可前接動結式短語，後面
> 可加相當於“了"的語氣詞或“仔"：花
> 蠻紅～ | 我物事多～崍 | 坐～，能立
> ～嗅 | 肉切好～睞，儂來燒好勒 ❹介
> 詞，表示時間、地點、範圍等，多置於謂
> 語動詞之前，但現在也有置於謂語動
> 詞之後的：～上海工作1坐一臺子高頭
> 卩“辣海"目前使用很普遍“海"有人
> 説成[ke]“辣海"説成[le ke]

---

There is also this paper [上海话"辣海"的语源及虚化特征的比较研究](https://xueshu.baidu.com/usercenter/paper/show?paperid=2293f57890242bc38842320f5ee30a8d&site=xueshu_se), in which the abstract says:

> [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/bOOME.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/bOOME.png)

The extracted text:

> "辣海"是上海话中一个重要的体标记词,本文通过跟邻近的江淮泰如片方言之间的比较研究,考察其来源及作为体标记的虚化过程."辣海"的"辣"本字不是"在",也不是"来",而是南方汉语方言的一个自源词;"海"的本字为"许",存在着不同的读音层次,"辣海"作为体标记在吴语中分别表示动作的进行和状态的持续,在泰如片方言主要表示状态的持续."在下"是"辣海"在泰如方言进一步虚化的产物,具有半虚化的体标记特征.

---

[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghainese#Tones) also has this entry on their section for Shanghainese tones:

> to exist, here, present [lɐʔ.hɛ] 徕許, 勒許

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: But what about 垃海? Doesn’t 辣海 mean something else?  
> **username_1**: @CookieDough It looks like their are multiple spellings for this word. The original spelling should be 来许 from what I can gather.  
> **username_2**: 来(come) 许 (about) + time = "by  + time" make sense  
> **username_0**: @Tang Ho Would I use 垃海 or 来许? Tatoeba doesn’t bring up anything when I try the latter - does this mean it isn’t used anymore?  
> **username_2**: I am not 上海人, so I wouldn't know which is the more common way to write this term  
> **username_1**: @CookieDough I would recommend using "辣海"; it doesn't really matter what the etymologically correct spelling is if you can't be understood.  
> **username_1**: @CookieDough I've added info from Wikipedia where they write it 徕許, 勒許.  
> **username_2**: There are similar cases in Cantonese, For example: 等/dang2/ is pronounced as  /ting3 / colloquially. Which  is exactly the same as  聽 when it is in colloquial form. Some people would write 等坐監 (wait to be put in prison) as 聽坐監  and not many people would object  
> **username_2**: The reason may be:  聽 (hear) also has the meaning of "to anticipate" as in 聽胡 ( one more match to win a game in Mahjong)  
> **username_0**: @Tang Ho 徕許 and 勒許 don’t seem to show up on Wiktionary, so I don’t know how accurate that is.  
> **username_2**: May be 徕許 or 勒許 had been replaced by 垃海 for too long,  and they became archaic  
> **username_1**: @CookieDough Not sure why you're asking Tang Ho, he's not the one who answered the question. Wiktionary is a very limited resource and it is missing a lot of entries.  
> **username_0**: @user3306356 please recommend me another resource to use. I'm aware that Wiktionary isn't the best resource to use, but there aren't that many resources for English speakers (besides wu-chinese.com) and my Mandarin isn't that good.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2020-06-13. Score: 1

> 我会得垃海九点钟回来

The mandarin equivalent is 我会在九点钟回来. So, 垃海 means 在 here. 垃海 is not pronounced as its Pinyin "la1 hai3". It's more like "le gai2" or "le gei2".

Not sure the correct writing of the word anyway. Maybe "了该" is closer?


---

