<p>存在 as a noun is &quot;existence&quot;, but it can also be a verb for &quot;to exist&quot;</p>
<p>Example: 你的<strong>存在</strong> = your <strong>existence</strong>; 因為有你<strong>存在</strong> = because you <strong>exist</strong></p>
<p>靜寂地存在。= silently exist</p>
<p>同樣的 = same</p>
<p>同樣地 = likewise</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-20T14:05:38.333Z
2024-11-20T14:11:16.113Z
2024-11-20T14:11:16.113Z
Tang Ho
<blockquote>
<p>沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，靜寂地存在。同樣地，森林沒樹如是沙漠。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Several problems here, stemming from the seemingly unshakeable faith people put in the word classes as expounded in Western Grammar, whose mistaken ideas have planted seeds in the heads of the poor Chinese.</p>
<p>没有动物，<br />
Without animals,<br />
森林就没有声音，<br />
a forest would be without sound,<br />
静寂地存在。<br />
silently existing.</p>
<p><em>exist</em> is a relatively new word, first recorded  in English in the late 1500s. <em>exist</em> seems to mean &quot;there&quot; as opposed to something that is not &quot;there&quot;.</p>
<p>In the 1950s, the Chinese officials who oversaw school matters reversed an earlier decision that so-called adverbs must be indicated using 地，not 的。It is now accepted, as it was previously, for students to use 的 instead of 地。This is only a problem for proscriptive grammars in written language, because, in spoken language, you will never know the difference between 地 or 的 or 得.</p>
<p>Rendering 森林就没有声音，静寂地存在 in English, I cannot write <em>silently exist</em>, that makes no sense. I need to write <em>silently existing</em>.</p>
<p>English words ending in -ing are either nouns or adjectives, according to Western Grammar.</p>
<p>Looked at this way, we have 静寂地 before 存在。What is  存在?? Could it be an adjective for 森林?</p>
<p>Western Grammar identifies something called Sentencial Adverbs. A Sentencial Adverb, as the name implies, says something about the whole sentence which follows it, or, the whole sentence describes the Sentencial Adverb.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Tomorrow, I will go to school.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So we have, in completely illogical reference to the above:</p>
<p>同样地：Equally,</p>
<p>同样地，<br />
Equally,<br />
没有树木的森林就像沙漠。<br />
a forest without trees is like a desert.</p>
<p>One small logic-problem here: if there are no trees, one can not describe such a scene as forest. No trees, no forest!</p>
<p>However, what you then see must not, per se, be a desert. The scene before you could be any other kind of landscape, or cityscape.</p>
<p>I could go to a forest and say: This is just like a car park without cars!</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-21T21:15:32.533Z
2024-11-21T21:15:32.533Z
Pedroski
<p>English glosses for Chinese words are not a reliable way to decide what a word means and how it behaves in a sentence. By relying on a bilingual glossary (a 19th century study technique), you are needlessly crippling yourself when it comes to learning Chinese efficiently.
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/CbYzblIr.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/CbYzblIr.jpg" alt="SHSTs 現代漢語學習詞典" /></a></p>
<p>Please force yourself to use study dictionaries, monolingual dictionaries especially conceived to help foreign students (and minorities) master Chinese via (1) true definitions (not brief English glosses); (2) multiple sentences that show typical syntactic patterns; and (3) comments on word usage. None of these study aids are available if you try to learn Chinese via bilingual glossaries, such as Google Translate (shudder!).</p>
<p>In the numbered samples below, when 存在 is followed by 著, 下去 or 過, it functions as a verb. In spoken Mandarin, the distinction between 的、地、得 is unclear (thus, many northerners see no need to maintain what seems like an arbitrary distinction), but in Cantonese (and other Southern forms of Chinese), they are clearly different: adjectival 的 dig⁷、adverbial 地 dei⁶、resultative 得 dag⁷.
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/ZLhsP1nm.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/ZLhsP1nm.jpg" alt="SHSTs 現代漢語學習詞典 Xiàndài Hànyǔ Xuéxí Cídiǎn: definition of 存在 (excerpt)" /></a></p>
<p>Note the SHSTs {現代漢語學習詞典 Xiàndài Hànyǔ Xuéxí Cídiǎn / Shiannday Hannyeu Shyueshyi Tsyrdean} definition 持續地保留著 &quot;to continue to exist&quot;. BHTs {標準漢語詞典 Biāozhǔn Hànyǔ Cídiǎn / Biaujoen Hannyeu Tsyrdean} has a slightly different definition 未消失 &quot;not yet disappeared&quot; (both are rough, inexact translations).</p>
<p>Monolingual dictionaries supply the words and expressions you need for being able to clearly express yourself in Chinese via paraphrase. Being able to clarify what you mean in Chinese is of immense value when (A) you need to discuss concepts for which you lack the vocabulary, or (2) your interlocutor doesn't quite understand what you mean (not necessarily your fault).</p>
<p>For example, if you know words such as 病人、生病 and 醫生, but don't know the word for &quot;nurse&quot;, you could say sth like 醫生的幫手 or 照顧病人的女生 (Yes, I know this is sexist ;-).
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/23i1LBM6.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/23i1LBM6.jpg" alt="標準漢語詞典" /></a>
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/fz44Nvt6.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/fz44Nvt6.jpg" alt="標準漢語詞典：存在" /></a></p>
<p>At first, trying to learn Chinese via Chinese may feel like floundering in the deep end of the swimming pool, but the struggle is worth it. Copy down the sentences that seem clear, and leave the others for later. Your Chinese ability will definitely improve faster than if you rely on faulty, misleading English glosses.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-23T11:24:02.120Z
2024-11-23T13:47:36.397Z
2024-11-23T13:47:36.397Z
Robert MATTHEWS 馬學進
<p>Let's start with looking at the most often encountered uses of 的 and 地:</p>
<ul>
<li><p><strong>的</strong>, most often used for modifying nouns in the form of &quot;adj + noun&quot; (紅色的車 - red car), or marking possession, which works like adding &quot;apostrophe + s&quot; (我女朋友的車 - my girlfriend's car) in English.</p>
</li>
<li><p><strong>地</strong> is used to turn adjectives into adverbs and can be considered equivalent to the suffix -ly in English.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>Now let's compare these two sentences:</p>
<p>A. 沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，<strong>靜寂的</strong>存在。<strong>同樣的</strong>，森林沒樹如是沙漠。- Without animals, the jungle will then without sound, <strong>silent</strong> existence. <strong>Similar/Same</strong>, the jungle without trees is the same as/similar to the desert.</p>
<p>B. 沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，<strong>靜寂地</strong>存在。<strong>同樣地</strong>，森林沒樹如是沙漠。- Without animals, the jungle will then without sound, <strong>silently exist</strong>. <strong>Likewise</strong>, the jungle without trees is the same as/similar to the desert.</p>
<p>I hope it is clear to you now.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-21T19:55:03.100Z
You can say 靜寂的森林 or 森林靜寂地存在. You can not say 森林靜寂的存在.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-20T23:15:39.580Z
2024-11-20T23:15:39.580Z
r13
<p>沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，靜寂<strong>地</strong>存在。同樣<strong>地</strong>，森林沒樹如是沙漠。</p>
<p>So I thought in this sentence (from a book) the bold part should both be 的, but obviously they are not.</p>
<p>存在 is existence, a noun, which is not a verb. That's why I think it should be 靜寂的存在。Why is 地 used here?</p>
<p>同樣的，同樣地 I can't distinguish the difference and both look right to me, so if there is an explanation here that would be appreciated.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-20T14:37:34.230Z
For your second question about 同樣地, if you use similarly instead of similar at the same position, then it makes sense to use 同樣地 instead of 同樣的.
kyc
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-21T09:41:29.023Z
Nowadays, on informal occasions, most Chinese use 的地得 interchangeably, although that may be grammatically incorrect.
PRO
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-11-21T19:48:48.207Z
@PRO It does not matter whether formal or informal; most well-educated Chinese know the difference when using 的地得. This is critical knowledge in the Chinese literacy textbook.
PdotWang
<meaning>
Difference between 地 and 的
# Difference between 地 and 的

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-11-20)

沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，靜寂**地**存在。同樣**地**，森林沒樹如是沙漠。

So I thought in this sentence (from a book) the bold part should both be 的, but obviously they are not.

存在 is existence, a noun, which is not a verb. That's why I think it should be 靜寂的存在。Why is 地 used here?

同樣的，同樣地 I can't distinguish the difference and both look right to me, so if there is an explanation here that would be appreciated.

**Tags:** meaning
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: For your second question about 同樣地, if you use similarly instead of similar at the same position, then it makes sense to use 同樣地 instead of 同樣的.  
> **username_2**: Nowadays, on informal occasions, most Chinese use 的地得 interchangeably, although that may be grammatically incorrect.  
> **username_3**: @PRO It does not matter whether formal or informal; most well-educated Chinese know the difference when using 的地得. This is critical knowledge in the Chinese literacy textbook.  

---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2024-11-20. Score: 2

存在 as a noun is "existence", but it can also be a verb for "to exist"

Example: 你的**存在** = your **existence**; 因為有你**存在** = because you **exist**

靜寂地存在。= silently exist

同樣的 = same

同樣地 = likewise


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2024-11-21. Score: 1

> 沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，靜寂地存在。同樣地，森林沒樹如是沙漠。

Several problems here, stemming from the seemingly unshakeable faith people put in the word classes as expounded in Western Grammar, whose mistaken ideas have planted seeds in the heads of the poor Chinese.

没有动物，  
Without animals,  
森林就没有声音，  
a forest would be without sound,  
静寂地存在。  
silently existing.

*exist* is a relatively new word, first recorded in English in the late 1500s. *exist* seems to mean "there" as opposed to something that is not "there".

In the 1950s, the Chinese officials who oversaw school matters reversed an earlier decision that so-called adverbs must be indicated using 地，not 的。It is now accepted, as it was previously, for students to use 的 instead of 地。This is only a problem for proscriptive grammars in written language, because, in spoken language, you will never know the difference between 地 or 的 or 得.

Rendering 森林就没有声音，静寂地存在 in English, I cannot write *silently exist*, that makes no sense. I need to write *silently existing*.

English words ending in -ing are either nouns or adjectives, according to Western Grammar.

Looked at this way, we have 静寂地 before 存在。What is 存在?? Could it be an adjective for 森林?

Western Grammar identifies something called Sentencial Adverbs. A Sentencial Adverb, as the name implies, says something about the whole sentence which follows it, or, the whole sentence describes the Sentencial Adverb.

> Tomorrow, I will go to school.

So we have, in completely illogical reference to the above:

同样地：Equally,

同样地，  
Equally,  
没有树木的森林就像沙漠。  
a forest without trees is like a desert.

One small logic-problem here: if there are no trees, one can not describe such a scene as forest. No trees, no forest!

However, what you then see must not, per se, be a desert. The scene before you could be any other kind of landscape, or cityscape.

I could go to a forest and say: This is just like a car park without cars!


---

### Answer by username_6 on 2024-11-23. Score: 1

English glosses for Chinese words are not a reliable way to decide what a word means and how it behaves in a sentence. By relying on a bilingual glossary (a 19th century study technique), you are needlessly crippling yourself when it comes to learning Chinese efficiently.
[![SHSTs 現代漢語學習詞典](https://i.sstatic.net/CbYzblIr.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/CbYzblIr.jpg)

Please force yourself to use study dictionaries, monolingual dictionaries especially conceived to help foreign students (and minorities) master Chinese via (1) true definitions (not brief English glosses); (2) multiple sentences that show typical syntactic patterns; and (3) comments on word usage. None of these study aids are available if you try to learn Chinese via bilingual glossaries, such as Google Translate (shudder!).

In the numbered samples below, when 存在 is followed by 著, 下去 or 過, it functions as a verb. In spoken Mandarin, the distinction between 的、地、得 is unclear (thus, many northerners see no need to maintain what seems like an arbitrary distinction), but in Cantonese (and other Southern forms of Chinese), they are clearly different: adjectival 的 dig⁷、adverbial 地 dei⁶、resultative 得 dag⁷.
[![SHSTs 現代漢語學習詞典 Xiàndài Hànyǔ Xuéxí Cídiǎn: definition of 存在 (excerpt)](https://i.sstatic.net/ZLhsP1nm.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/ZLhsP1nm.jpg)

Note the SHSTs {現代漢語學習詞典 Xiàndài Hànyǔ Xuéxí Cídiǎn / Shiannday Hannyeu Shyueshyi Tsyrdean} definition 持續地保留著 "to continue to exist". BHTs {標準漢語詞典 Biāozhǔn Hànyǔ Cídiǎn / Biaujoen Hannyeu Tsyrdean} has a slightly different definition 未消失 "not yet disappeared" (both are rough, inexact translations).

Monolingual dictionaries supply the words and expressions you need for being able to clearly express yourself in Chinese via paraphrase. Being able to clarify what you mean in Chinese is of immense value when (A) you need to discuss concepts for which you lack the vocabulary, or (2) your interlocutor doesn't quite understand what you mean (not necessarily your fault).

For example, if you know words such as 病人、生病 and 醫生, but don't know the word for "nurse", you could say sth like 醫生的幫手 or 照顧病人的女生 (Yes, I know this is sexist ;-).
[![標準漢語詞典](https://i.sstatic.net/23i1LBM6.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/23i1LBM6.jpg)
[![標準漢語詞典：存在](https://i.sstatic.net/fz44Nvt6.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/fz44Nvt6.jpg)

At first, trying to learn Chinese via Chinese may feel like floundering in the deep end of the swimming pool, but the struggle is worth it. Copy down the sentences that seem clear, and leave the others for later. Your Chinese ability will definitely improve faster than if you rely on faulty, misleading English glosses.


---

### Answer by username_7 on 2024-11-20. Score: 0

Let's start with looking at the most often encountered uses of 的 and 地:

* **的**, most often used for modifying nouns in the form of "adj + noun" (紅色的車 - red car), or marking possession, which works like adding "apostrophe + s" (我女朋友的車 - my girlfriend's car) in English.
* **地** is used to turn adjectives into adverbs and can be considered equivalent to the suffix -ly in English.

Now let's compare these two sentences:

A. 沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，**靜寂的**存在。**同樣的**，森林沒樹如是沙漠。- Without animals, the jungle will then without sound, **silent** existence. **Similar/Same**, the jungle without trees is the same as/similar to the desert.

B. 沒有了動物，森林就沒了聲音，**靜寂地**存在。**同樣地**，森林沒樹如是沙漠。- Without animals, the jungle will then without sound, **silently exist**. **Likewise**, the jungle without trees is the same as/similar to the desert.

I hope it is clear to you now.

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: You can say 靜寂的森林 or 森林靜寂地存在. You can not say 森林靜寂的存在.  

---

