<p>This has been an immense effort. I posted on Youtube, Hakka Verse (Facebook) and here, and no posting got me a complete answer. Va Vang (now vugh va, impossible to notify) provided the first characters for the part I reported for completeness. Then I posted on Hakka Verse, and we improved the spelling for that. Then I posted here, and after waiting for ages I got Li-ting's answer. Now I clearly cannot accept that answer since it doesn't fully answer me, as I am left with characters that make little sense to me, and even the admin of Hakka Verse can't make sense of them. What the answer says has helped me, in that:</p>
<ol>
<li>It confirmed (more or less) my interpretation of <code>kiet-sii</code>;</li>
<li>It more or less confirmed my idea that <code>si-si ten to lo</code> is near to <code>sixintadi</code> in meaning, implying a persistent wait, which lasts till the singer gets old (<code>to lo</code>), though he objected to my translation of <code>co-mai</code>; I have to reject that objection on the basis of Hakka Verse experience;</li>
<li>He confirmed some of my guesses for the characters of the part this question is all about.</li>
</ol>
<p>Let me now update you about my experiments.</p>
<ol>
<li>Yesterday evening, looking for a way to crack the <code>nga shi</code> (which Li-ting spells <code>呀西</code>, a way that makes no sense to me and seems just a phonetic approximation), I found 时 means &quot;time&quot; and is <code>shi2</code> according to <a href="http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/bkg.php?gi_gian=eng" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Minhakka's 客英大辞典</a>. It is pretty strange that the same character is pronounced <code>sii</code> in <code>kiet-sii</code> first and <code>shi</code> after, but I have no better guess for this. I have to suppose 时 is a <code>多音字</code> and is pronounced <code>shi</code> for &quot;time&quot; and <code>sii</code> in <code>kiet-sii</code>, which basically means &quot;in the end&quot;.</li>
<li>I previously cracked the first line as 涯想毋愛翻再去想汝, &quot;ngai siong m oi fan-cai hi siong nyi&quot;, keeping my guesses and adding that &quot;siong&quot; was misheard as &quot;sho&quot; because I didn't hear the final nasal, and that fan-cai was read <code>fan-tsai</code>.</li>
<li>Yesterday evening I looked for ting or thing, to no avail; same for bam; so I resorted to guessing a mishearing was at play here, and looked for ban; well, van, because that's how they spell it at Minhakka; I found 万，换，湾, and maybe another possibly suitable <code>van</code>; then I looked for tin, and found that it means &quot;to bear, to endure&quot;; so I guessed that &quot;ban tin&quot; meant &quot;enduring lots [of sufference]&quot;, and that the &quot;e&quot; was actually &quot;ge&quot;, the possessive particle; this led me to &quot;万tin个单侪在阿里&quot;, &quot;I, enduring lots of sufference, alone here&quot;, linking to the last line; unfortunately, Minhakka has no char for &quot;tin&quot;, and hakka.dict.edu.tw doesn't even have that tin; I <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/writehakka/permalink/924855414254361/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">am waiting for spelling suggestions</a>.</li>
<li>The last line I haven't yet tried guessing; well, we are left with that &quot;mei shi&quot;, which I don't know how to interpret or spell, and which Li-ting doesn't even have in his chars.</li>
</ol>
<p>Summing up, I have the following lyrics:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>一開始涯緬著<br>
愛情本等就恁容易<br>
所以涯無真真想起<br>
恁樣放落心去<br>
結果涯有一斷心<br>
涯看著汝佮倒佢<br>
涯正識著原來愛情<br>
毋系講愛就得矣<br>
<br>
涯感動天感動地<br>
做麽感動不著汝<br>
明明愛情就無結果<br>
做麽死死等到老<br>
涯感動天感動地<br>
做麽感動不著汝<br>
希望自家想作一下<br>
結時涯騙單儕<br>
<br>
涯想毋愛翻再去想汝<br>
試著雅時毋愛翻來同去<br>
萬tin个單儕在阿里<br>
每日？？偏偏轉著汝<br>
<br>
Jit khoi-si ngai mian to<br>
Oi-chin pun ten chiu an jung-ji<br>
So-ji ngai mo cin-cin siong-hi<br>
An-nyong piong lok sim hi<br>
Kiet-ko ngai jiu jit thon sim<br>
Ngai khon to nyi kak-to ki<br>
Ngai cang chi-to nyen-loi oi-chin<br>
M he kong oi chiu tet nyi<br>
<br>
Ngai kam-thung thien kam-thung thi<br>
Co-mai kam-thung m to nyi<br>
Min-min oi-chin chiu mo kiet-ko<br>
Co-mai si-si si ten to lo<br>
Ngai kam-thung thien kam-thung thi<br>
Co-mai kam-thung m to nyi<br>
Hi-mong chi-ka hiau co jit-ha<br>
Kiet-sii ngai phien tan-sa<br>
<br>
Ngai siong m oi fan-cai hi siong ngi<br>
Chi-to nga si m oi fan lai thung-hi<br>
Ban tin kai* tan-sa choi a-li         *Pronounced &quot;ke&quot;<br>
Mui nyit mei si phian-phian con to nyi<br>
<br>
At the start I thought<br>
Love when it starts is very easy<br>
So I don't really remember<br>
How [I] put [you] in [my] heart<br>
As a result I have a broken heart<br>
[And] I see you going back to him<br>
I've just found out love<br>
Is not like just saying I love you is fine<br>
<br>
I move heaven and move earth,<br>
Why can I not move you?<br>
It's clear that love [will] have no result<br>
Why do I wait so persistently till I get old?<br>
I move heaven and move earth,<br>
Why can I not move you?<br>
Hoping I would do something<br>
I ended up deceiving myself<br>
<br>
I don't want to love you again<br>
I know I don't want to spend my time with you again<br>
Here alone, suffering a lot,<br>
Every day (mei shi) I constantly come back to you</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I am awaiting confirmation on my guesses for lines 2-3 of the hard bit, and am not sure about the last line, besides the hole. The idea of <code>惦</code> might be a good one: &quot;每日mei shi惦惦转着你&quot;, Every day I remember of you or think of you, though there are too many &quot;verbal prepositions&quot;, I mean, 转 and 着 can both serve the function of result complements (ex &quot;翻译转&quot; = &quot;翻译成&quot; and &quot;想着你&quot; = &quot;想到你“）, but both together seem far-fetched. A way to fix the 时 controversy is to spell that 结事, which Minhakka would read kiet-sii, and interpret it as typically Hakka, and a &quot;tone&quot; word, in Li-ting's terminology.</p>
<p><strong>Update</strong></p>
<p>I notified the fb group of this answer, and Dylan Whs commented suggesting:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>反正：横正；横掂 in any case</p>
<p>Vang cin ~ ban tin</p>
<p>横正涯单儕在那位</p>
<p>每日每時點點想到汝</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This certainly solved the mysterious <code>bam ting e</code>, getting <code>bam ting</code> to <code>vang-cin</code>, similar to <code>bang-tin</code>, and <code>e</code> to <code>ngai</code>, transformed to <code>nge</code> in singing, the ng of which seemed to stick to the tin making it ting. The substitiution of <code>choi a-li</code> with <code>choi a-bui</code> I would reject since it doesn't match what I hear. &quot;mui shi&quot; for &quot;mei shi&quot; is also some problem. But then, responding to my comment posing these problems, he said:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Just guesses ;')</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So I will go back to my choi a-li and keep my doubts on &quot;mei shi&quot; alive but adopt that as a temporary solution while waiting for a better option. With that, the problematic part became:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>涯想毋愛翻再去想汝<br>
試著雅時毋愛翻來同去<br>
横正涯單儕在阿里<br>
每日每時偏偏想著汝<br>
<br>
Ngai siong m oi fan-cai hi siong ngi<br>
Chi-to nga si m oi fan lai thung-hi<br>
Vang-cin ngai* tan-sa choi a-li         <em>Pronounced &quot;ban-tin nge&quot;<br>
Mui nyit mui si</em> phian-phian con to nyi   *&quot;Mei shi&quot; waiting for better alternative<br>
<br>
I think I won't think of you anymore<br>
I know I won't use my time to go with you again<br>
In any case I'm here alone,<br>
And every day, all the time, I constantly think of you.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So I also rejected the &quot;點點&quot; and the spelling of to, but accepted siong as more matching what I hear than my con.</p>
<p><strong>Final Update</strong></p>
<p>My friend just posted <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9js2Eb6haw&amp;sns=fb" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this other video</a>, and with the help of that I think I finally cracked everything. Here is the lyrics from the new video:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>一开始涯缅着<br>
爱情本等就恁容易<br>
所以涯无真真想起<br>
恁样放落心去<br>
结果涯有一断心<br>
涯看着你佮着佢<br>
涯正知道原来爱情<br>
毋系讲爱就得宜<br>
<br>
涯感动天感动地<br>
做么感动毋着你<br>
明明爱情就无结果<br>
做么死死等到老<br>
涯感动天感动地<br>
做么感动毋着你<br>
希望自家晓做一下<br>
结果涯骗单侪<br>
<br>
一開始涯緬著<br>
爱情本等就恁容易<br>
所以涯无真真想记<br>
恁样放落心去<br>
结果涯有一短信<br>
涯看着你佮着佢<br>
涯正知道原来爱情<br>
毋系讲爱就得矣<br>
<br>
涯感动天感动地<br>
做么感动毋着你<br>
明明爱情就无结果<br>
做么死死等到老<br>
涯感动天感动地<br>
做么感动毋着你<br>
希望自家晓做一下<br>
结果涯骗单侪<br>
<br>
涯想毋爱翻再去想你<br>
想着涯心毋爱翻同去<br>
万正系单侪在阿里<br>
每日每时偏偏想着你<br>
<br>
涯感动天…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>which, aided by Minhakka, I transliterated as:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Yit khoi-chí ngâi m(i)én tò<br>
Òi-tshîn pún-tén tshiù àn yûng-yì<br>
Só-yi ngâi mô cin-cin sióng-khí<br>
Àn-nyòng piòng lo'k sim hì<br>
Kiet-kwó ngâi yìu yit thon sim<br>
Ngâi khòn tò nyî kak tò kî<br>
Ngâi càng chì-tò nyên-lôi òi-tshîn<br>
M hè kóng òi tshiù tet-nyî<br>
<br>
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì<br>
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî<br>
Mîn-mîn òi-tshîn tshiù mô kiet-kwó<br>
Tsò-mài sí-sí tén teu ló<br>
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì<br>
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî<br>
Hi-mòng tshìi-ka hiáu tsò yit-hà<br>
Kiet-kwó ngâi phièn tan-sâ<br>
<br>
Yit khoi-chí ngâi m(i)én tò<br>
Òi-tshîn pún-tén tshiù àn yûng-yì<br>
Só-yi ngâi mô cin-cin sióng-khí<br>
Àn-nyòng piòng lo'k sim hì<br>
Kiet-kwó ngâi yìu yit thon sim<br>
Ngâi khòn tò nyî kak tò kî<br>
Ngâi càng chì-tò nyên-lôi òi-tshîn<br>
M hè kóng òi tshiù tet-nyî<br>
<br>
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì<br>
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî<br>
Mîn-mîn òi-tshîn tshiù mô kiet-kwó<br>
Tsò-mài sí-sí tén teu ló<br>
Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì<br>
Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî<br>
Hi-mòng tshìi-ka hiáu tsò yit-hà<br>
Kiet-kwó ngâi phièn tan-sâ<br>
<br>
Ngâi sióng m òi fan-tsài hì sióng nyî<br>
Sióng tò nga sim m òi fan thûng-hì<br>
Vàn-cìn hè tan-sâ tshoi a-li<br>
Mui-nyit mui-shî phien-phien sióng to nyî<br>
<br>
Ngâi kám-thùng thien…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Note: pún-tén means &quot;of course&quot;, and vàn-cìn is half made-up and should mean &quot;anyway&quot;. Vàn-cìn is naturally based on the suggestion by Dylah Whs, but modified in the first character since Minhakka wouldn't give anything but fán for 反 followed by 正.</p>
<p><strong>Final version</strong></p>
<p>I came back to this song in the context of <a href="http://michelegorini.blogspot.it/2017/08/all-chinese-songs-i-have-met.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this blog post</a>, where you can find the song with &quot;correct&quot; spelling and Mandarin glosses for all Hakka words as Ruby text (Furigana-like, if you know what that means), plust a full translation. I decided to modify Dylan Whs's suggestion to <code>万阵系 | vàn-chìn hè</code>, so it matches what I heard better, and the spelling of <code>vàn-chìn</code> matches the meaning, more or less (better than before). And it's nice to know that the choice of <code>hè</code> was one I also made in the past :). I also thought about that &quot;hit&quot; mishearing: could it be <code>迄 | hit | to reach unto</code> or <code>汔 | hit | to shed tears</code>? Time to hear from Hakka Verse again! :)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-08-17T13:01:20.557Z
That "hit" could also be 泣 | hip | weep silently, mind you.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-28T13:58:07.170Z
2017-08-17T11:55:11.163Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
MickG
<p>結時涯騙單儕 mean 都是我騙自己 in Chinese. It can be translated like "just deceiving myself". 結時 is just Hakka tone for speak out, not really a word in this song. You can translate the Chinese word that sentence in the YouTube video. That Chinese sentence can translate nearly
But 做麽死死等到老 is correct, not 卻還死心塌地. 做麽死死等到老 means 就這麼死死等到老. It can be translated like "waiting you persist until the end"</p>

<p>That last part that Hakka pinyin is..
"老豆七嘎mu'ooei勾敻里
試懂呀西雅翻來同起
萬其一單色在阿里
每日惦惦敻刀里"</p>

<p>That song is sung like 粵語 (Cantonese) a little bit. Maybe it's different how they speak Hakka in different countries.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-21T15:21:20.657Z
This doesn't really anwer the question which is about another bit of the song, the one corresponding to Mandarin "Yiwei ziji bu zai qu xiang ni ... Que hai xiangyao zhidao ni de xiaoxi". Useful info though. Consider editing your answer to include an answer to the question, i.e. how I should spell and understand the lyrics of the bit I mentioned before.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-21T15:27:44.227Z
Is there any good reason not to be able to paste stuff into comments from mobile? I tried to paste the characters for the pinyin into the previous comment but no way, and even this comment didn't allow pasting...
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-21T15:51:13.633Z
how I should spell and understand the lyrics of the bit I mentioned before->it's difficult like that how could I speak English as my native language
Li-ting
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-21T16:43:06.403Z
To complete the comments above, the characters were "以为自己不再去想你…却还想要知道你的消息".
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-23T11:29:50.210Z
What does that part mean?
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-24T17:32:45.230Z
I can't understand that part. The spelling you give makes little sense to me and to the admin of the facebook group Hakka verse, who is just about as close as you can get to mother tongue Hakka. Could you please give a translation for it? Also, those characters do not match the sounds I hear in the video, so there must be some mistake in them. And what on earth is "mu'ooei" supposed to mean??
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-24T17:34:56.533Z
Discussing with that admin, I concluded the first line ought to be "涯想毋愛翻再去想汝 | Ngai siong ng oi fan-cai hi siong nyi" which is a near-exact translation of "以为自己不再去想你".
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-24T17:41:22.647Z
As for "做麽死死等到老 | Co-mai si-si ten to lo", I don't quite gather your objection, since the main point I make in the post is that 死死等到老 is similar to "sixintadi", and you translate it with "persist", which is the meaning of "sixintadi" unless I'm much mistaken, and your only correction seems to be that 做麽 to you is "like this", but IIRC I've seen it used in the fb group as "why", and 麽 (mai) is a question word (means "what?"), so co-mai should really mean "why" and not "like this". Please elaborate.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-21T15:15:02.610Z
2015-08-30T01:43:42.140Z
2015-08-30T01:43:42.140Z
Li-ting
<p><strong>Background:</strong></p>

<p>Searching for songs as exercises of translation from Chinese, I came across <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mF0f7dWqig" rel="nofollow noreferrer">kam-thung sim</a>, the Hakka version of 感动天感动地. Unfortunately, there were no characters (well, except for those that are the mandarin original placed with Karaoke lighting over the video of the Hakka song, most inappropriate), so I commented on the video (Mick Gorro is my name there) and Va Vang replied, posting the following characters:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>一開始偭到，<br>
      愛情本等就恁容易<br>
      所以冇真真想起<br>
      恁樣放落心去<br>
      結果［有］一斷心<br>
      []看到汝搭撈佢<br>
      正識到原來愛情<br>
      毋系講愛就得矣<br>
      <br>
      感動天感動地<br>
      做麽感動不到汝<br>
      明明愛情就冇結果<br>
      做麽呃死死等到老<br>
      感動天感動地<br>
      做麽感動不到汝<br>
      希望自家想作一下<br>
      結果騙徠儕<br></p>
</blockquote>

<p>As you can see, I added a couple to match the song. I couldn't really understand this, so I understood what I could and let this go, up till I remembered about it after being added to the Facebook Hakka:Verse group. I posted on it, and we came to the following spelling:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>一開始涯緬著<br>
      愛情本等就恁容易<br>
      所以涯無真真想起<br>
      恁樣放落心去<br>
      結果涯有一斷心<br>
      涯看著汝佮倒佢<br>
      涯正識著原來愛情<br>
      毋系講愛就得矣<br>
      <br>
      涯感動天感動地<br>
      做麽感動毋著汝<br>
      明明愛情就無結果<br>
      做麽死死等到老<br>
      涯感動天感動地<br>
      做麽感動毋著汝<br>
      希望自家曉做一下<br>
      結時涯騙單儕<br>
      <br>
      涯所毋愛翻？去想汝<br>
      試著雅？毋愛翻來同去<br>
      ？？？單儕在阿里<br>
      每日？？偏偏？毋著汝<br></p>
</blockquote>

<p>Forget the last part for the moment. This translates to:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>At the start I thought<br>
      Love is originally very easy<br>
      So I don't really remember<br>
      How [I] put [you] in [my] heart<br>
      As a result I have a broken heart<br>
      [And] I see you going back to him<br>
      I've just found out love<br>
      Is not like just saying I love you is fine<br>
      <br>
      I move heaven and move earth,<br>
      Why can I not move you?<br>
      It's clear that love [will] have no result<br>
      Why (si-si ten to lo = sixintadi perhaps?)<br>
      I move heaven and move earth,<br>
      Why can I not move you?<br>
      Hoping I would do something<br>
      I ended up deceiving myself<br></p>
</blockquote>

<p>I'm not too sure about the translation of <code>结时</code> as "in the end" (whence "I ended up deceiving"), and above all <code>死死等到老</code> is most uncertain, but this is all just for completeness. The question here is about the extra bit. Va Vang completely failed to provide characters, so I tried transcribing the sounds, getting:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Ngai sho m ai fan sai hit shiong ngi<br>
      Shi dao nga shi m oi fan lai tong hi<br>
      Am ting e kan sat s toi a li<br>
      Mui nyit mei shi pien pien vs tou n do ngi<br></p>
</blockquote>

<p>Guessing that:</p>

<ol>
<li><code>hit</code> was actually <code>hi</code>;</li>
<li><code>sho</code> and <code>shiong</code> were phonetic variants of <code>so</code> and <code>siong</code>;</li>
<li><code>ai</code> was supposed to be <code>oi</code>;</li>
<li><code>shi dao</code> was <code>chi to</code>, as <code>o</code>-><code>ao</code> or <code>au</code> is a common variation and <code>t</code>-><code>d</code> is an effect of singing, and <code>shi</code> might have been <code>chi</code> with me not hearing the initial plosive onset;</li>
<li><code>sat s toi</code> was actually <code>sa tshoi</code>, with the <code>tsh</code> being misheard as <code>t s t</code>, and being the initial of <code>choi</code>, <code>at</code>, and <code>sa</code> being the end of <code>tan-sa</code>, alone;</li>
<li><code>vs tou n do ngi</code> was a bad mishearing of <code>ng co ng to nyi</code>.</li>
</ol>

<p>I reached the following characters:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>涯所毋愛翻？去想汝<br>
      試著雅？毋愛翻來同去<br>
      ？？？單儕在阿里<br>
      每日？？偏偏(？毋著汝)->毋做毋到汝<br></p>
</blockquote>

<p>I won't provide a translation as holes are abundant. I just observe that 涯＝我，毋＝不，爱＝要，翻＝再次，汝＝你，试着＝试到，单侪＝孤单，阿里＝这里，毋做毋到汝 is a very wild and potentially meaningless guess which would mean 不做不到你。</p>

<p><strong>Question:</strong></p>

<p>With all that, the question is the following: what does that part say? How do I spell it in characters? How do I pronounce it?</p>

<p>Any corrections on the translation of the rest is very welcome, and a full transliteration with tones is worth a +1 :).</p>

<p><strong>Little extra:</strong>
Here's the facebook post:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><a href="https://m.facebook.com/groups/158381100868371?view=permalink&amp;id=854070744632733" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://m.facebook.com/groups/158381100868371?view=permalink&amp;id=854070744632733</a></p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-01-06T12:03:24.533Z
Couple of typos: in kamthung m to nyi, m is misspelt, should be the character translated to bù in the observations below; in the line himong chika hiau co jit ha the hiau is written as xiăng, clearly wrong, should be xiăode de xiăo. Will edit after lunch.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-01-06T12:56:11.633Z
Note: someone on fb suggested mien should be spelt with the heart radical rather than the thread radical (i.e. with 愐 rather than 緬). Just for completeness I leave this comment, letting any who wants comment on this. I reported the issue in Write Hakka too: https://m.facebook.com/groups/155999467806630?view=permalink&id=793362804070290&refid=18.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-01-17T17:31:57.707Z
We concluded using the heart radical is more common and therefore better than using the thread one.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T08:56:12.450Z
Just a personal tip, don't practice Chinese in Hakka, do it in Mandarin. It is because Mandarin speak the same they write, which is the universally recognized writing version called 白話文.
Daniel Cheung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T09:10:44.957Z
Good advice. Then again, when I meet with a Hakka song, I feel compelled to try cracking it :). And searching for songs on Youtube almost inevitably leads to songs in other dialects (Cantonese, Min Nan, Hakka, even Teochew once).
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T09:12:24.360Z
Why do you separate one song into 3 parts. I thought I had it translated!! :O
Daniel Cheung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T09:12:30.670Z
I've met all sorts of "misspellings", like when hia-ni (meaning 那么 in Hokkien) was spelt 希你 in the subs and 那么 on mojim. It's such a pity there is no official spelling for those dialects…
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T09:14:34.320Z
Because putting it all together it would be very long and might end up like [my qustion about Time after Time by Mai Kuraki over at Japanese SX](http://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/17839/help-on-translating-time-after-time?noredirect=1): closed as off-topic and deleted. And with that song I split it into more than three, and one of the parts was again closed and deleted.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T09:14:39.280Z
It's not "spelling", they don't have the characters for the pronunciations. Officially, Chinese is only supposed to be written as Mandarin(not absolutely but close, just pretend written Chinese is Mandarin). Cantonese is one of the dialects that can represent spoken Cantonese as written characters.
Daniel Cheung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T09:15:12.923Z
Precisely, [this part](http://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/18179/verb-for-the-object-dareka-in-%E6%8E%A2%E3%81%95%E3%81%9A%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AF%E3%81%84%E3%82%89%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84-%E8%AA%B0%E3%81%8B%E3%82%92#18179) was closed as too broad.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-08T09:15:34.497Z
Let us [continue this discussion in chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/26736/discussion-between-daniel-cheung-and-mickg).
Daniel Cheung
<translation><spelling><hakka>
Hakka song "kam-thung sim": character approximation and translation required for a part
# Hakka song "kam-thung sim": character approximation and translation required for a part

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-01-06)

**Background:**

Searching for songs as exercises of translation from Chinese, I came across [kam-thung sim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mF0f7dWqig), the Hakka version of 感动天感动地. Unfortunately, there were no characters (well, except for those that are the mandarin original placed with Karaoke lighting over the video of the Hakka song, most inappropriate), so I commented on the video (Mick Gorro is my name there) and Va Vang replied, posting the following characters:

> 一開始偭到，  
> 愛情本等就恁容易  
> 所以冇真真想起  
> 恁樣放落心去  
> 結果［有］一斷心  
> []看到汝搭撈佢  
> 正識到原來愛情  
> 毋系講愛就得矣  
>   
> 感動天感動地  
> 做麽感動不到汝  
> 明明愛情就冇結果  
> 做麽呃死死等到老  
> 感動天感動地  
> 做麽感動不到汝  
> 希望自家想作一下  
> 結果騙徠儕

As you can see, I added a couple to match the song. I couldn't really understand this, so I understood what I could and let this go, up till I remembered about it after being added to the Facebook Hakka:Verse group. I posted on it, and we came to the following spelling:

> 一開始涯緬著  
> 愛情本等就恁容易  
> 所以涯無真真想起  
> 恁樣放落心去  
> 結果涯有一斷心  
> 涯看著汝佮倒佢  
> 涯正識著原來愛情  
> 毋系講愛就得矣  
>   
> 涯感動天感動地  
> 做麽感動毋著汝  
> 明明愛情就無結果  
> 做麽死死等到老  
> 涯感動天感動地  
> 做麽感動毋著汝  
> 希望自家曉做一下  
> 結時涯騙單儕  
>   
> 涯所毋愛翻？去想汝  
> 試著雅？毋愛翻來同去  
> ？？？單儕在阿里  
> 每日？？偏偏？毋著汝

Forget the last part for the moment. This translates to:

> At the start I thought  
> Love is originally very easy  
> So I don't really remember  
> How [I] put [you] in [my] heart  
> As a result I have a broken heart  
> [And] I see you going back to him  
> I've just found out love  
> Is not like just saying I love you is fine  
>   
> I move heaven and move earth,  
> Why can I not move you?  
> It's clear that love [will] have no result  
> Why (si-si ten to lo = sixintadi perhaps?)  
> I move heaven and move earth,  
> Why can I not move you?  
> Hoping I would do something  
> I ended up deceiving myself

I'm not too sure about the translation of `结时` as "in the end" (whence "I ended up deceiving"), and above all `死死等到老` is most uncertain, but this is all just for completeness. The question here is about the extra bit. Va Vang completely failed to provide characters, so I tried transcribing the sounds, getting:

> Ngai sho m ai fan sai hit shiong ngi  
> Shi dao nga shi m oi fan lai tong hi  
> Am ting e kan sat s toi a li  
> Mui nyit mei shi pien pien vs tou n do ngi

Guessing that:

1. `hit` was actually `hi`;
2. `sho` and `shiong` were phonetic variants of `so` and `siong`;
3. `ai` was supposed to be `oi`;
4. `shi dao` was `chi to`, as `o`->`ao` or `au` is a common variation and `t`->`d` is an effect of singing, and `shi` might have been `chi` with me not hearing the initial plosive onset;
5. `sat s toi` was actually `sa tshoi`, with the `tsh` being misheard as `t s t`, and being the initial of `choi`, `at`, and `sa` being the end of `tan-sa`, alone;
6. `vs tou n do ngi` was a bad mishearing of `ng co ng to nyi`.

I reached the following characters:

> 涯所毋愛翻？去想汝  
> 試著雅？毋愛翻來同去  
> ？？？單儕在阿里  
> 每日？？偏偏(？毋著汝)->毋做毋到汝

I won't provide a translation as holes are abundant. I just observe that 涯＝我，毋＝不，爱＝要，翻＝再次，汝＝你，试着＝试到，单侪＝孤单，阿里＝这里，毋做毋到汝 is a very wild and potentially meaningless guess which would mean 不做不到你。

**Question:**

With all that, the question is the following: what does that part say? How do I spell it in characters? How do I pronounce it?

Any corrections on the translation of the rest is very welcome, and a full transliteration with tones is worth a +1 :).

**Little extra:**
Here's the facebook post:

> <https://m.facebook.com/groups/158381100868371?view=permalink&id=854070744632733>

**Tags:** translation, spelling, hakka
> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Couple of typos: in kamthung m to nyi, m is misspelt, should be the character translated to bù in the observations below; in the line himong chika hiau co jit ha the hiau is written as xiăng, clearly wrong, should be xiăode de xiăo. Will edit after lunch.  
> **username_0**: Note: someone on fb suggested mien should be spelt with the heart radical rather than the thread radical (i.e. with 愐 rather than 緬). Just for completeness I leave this comment, letting any who wants comment on this. I reported the issue in Write Hakka too: https://m.facebook.com/groups/155999467806630?view=permalink&id=793362804070290&refid=18.  
> **username_0**: We concluded using the heart radical is more common and therefore better than using the thread one.  
> **username_1**: Just a personal tip, don't practice Chinese in Hakka, do it in Mandarin. It is because Mandarin speak the same they write, which is the universally recognized writing version called 白話文.  
> **username_0**: Good advice. Then again, when I meet with a Hakka song, I feel compelled to try cracking it :). And searching for songs on Youtube almost inevitably leads to songs in other dialects (Cantonese, Min Nan, Hakka, even Teochew once).  
> **username_1**: Why do you separate one song into 3 parts. I thought I had it translated!! :O  
> **username_0**: I've met all sorts of "misspellings", like when hia-ni (meaning 那么 in Hokkien) was spelt 希你 in the subs and 那么 on mojim. It's such a pity there is no official spelling for those dialects…  
> **username_0**: Because putting it all together it would be very long and might end up like [my qustion about Time after Time by Mai Kuraki over at Japanese SX](http://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/17839/help-on-translating-time-after-time?noredirect=1): closed as off-topic and deleted. And with that song I split it into more than three, and one of the parts was again closed and deleted.  
> **username_1**: It's not "spelling", they don't have the characters for the pronunciations. Officially, Chinese is only supposed to be written as Mandarin(not absolutely but close, just pretend written Chinese is Mandarin). Cantonese is one of the dialects that can represent spoken Cantonese as written characters.  
> **username_0**: Precisely, [this part](http://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/18179/verb-for-the-object-dareka-in-%E6%8E%A2%E3%81%95%E3%81%9A%E3%81%AB%E3%81%AF%E3%81%84%E3%82%89%E3%82%8C%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84-%E8%AA%B0%E3%81%8B%E3%82%92#18179) was closed as too broad.  
> **username_1**: Let us [continue this discussion in chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/26736/discussion-between-daniel-cheung-and-mickg).  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_0 on 2015-08-28. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

This has been an immense effort. I posted on Youtube, Hakka Verse (Facebook) and here, and no posting got me a complete answer. Va Vang (now vugh va, impossible to notify) provided the first characters for the part I reported for completeness. Then I posted on Hakka Verse, and we improved the spelling for that. Then I posted here, and after waiting for ages I got Li-ting's answer. Now I clearly cannot accept that answer since it doesn't fully answer me, as I am left with characters that make little sense to me, and even the admin of Hakka Verse can't make sense of them. What the answer says has helped me, in that:

1. It confirmed (more or less) my interpretation of `kiet-sii`;
2. It more or less confirmed my idea that `si-si ten to lo` is near to `sixintadi` in meaning, implying a persistent wait, which lasts till the singer gets old (`to lo`), though he objected to my translation of `co-mai`; I have to reject that objection on the basis of Hakka Verse experience;
3. He confirmed some of my guesses for the characters of the part this question is all about.

Let me now update you about my experiments.

1. Yesterday evening, looking for a way to crack the `nga shi` (which Li-ting spells `呀西`, a way that makes no sense to me and seems just a phonetic approximation), I found 时 means "time" and is `shi2` according to [Minhakka's 客英大辞典](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/bkg.php?gi_gian=eng). It is pretty strange that the same character is pronounced `sii` in `kiet-sii` first and `shi` after, but I have no better guess for this. I have to suppose 时 is a `多音字` and is pronounced `shi` for "time" and `sii` in `kiet-sii`, which basically means "in the end".
2. I previously cracked the first line as 涯想毋愛翻再去想汝, "ngai siong m oi fan-cai hi siong nyi", keeping my guesses and adding that "siong" was misheard as "sho" because I didn't hear the final nasal, and that fan-cai was read `fan-tsai`.
3. Yesterday evening I looked for ting or thing, to no avail; same for bam; so I resorted to guessing a mishearing was at play here, and looked for ban; well, van, because that's how they spell it at Minhakka; I found 万，换，湾, and maybe another possibly suitable `van`; then I looked for tin, and found that it means "to bear, to endure"; so I guessed that "ban tin" meant "enduring lots [of sufference]", and that the "e" was actually "ge", the possessive particle; this led me to "万tin个单侪在阿里", "I, enduring lots of sufference, alone here", linking to the last line; unfortunately, Minhakka has no char for "tin", and hakka.dict.edu.tw doesn't even have that tin; I [am waiting for spelling suggestions](https://www.facebook.com/groups/writehakka/permalink/924855414254361/).
4. The last line I haven't yet tried guessing; well, we are left with that "mei shi", which I don't know how to interpret or spell, and which Li-ting doesn't even have in his chars.

Summing up, I have the following lyrics:

> 一開始涯緬著  
> 愛情本等就恁容易  
> 所以涯無真真想起  
> 恁樣放落心去  
> 結果涯有一斷心  
> 涯看著汝佮倒佢  
> 涯正識著原來愛情  
> 毋系講愛就得矣  
>   
> 涯感動天感動地  
> 做麽感動不著汝  
> 明明愛情就無結果  
> 做麽死死等到老  
> 涯感動天感動地  
> 做麽感動不著汝  
> 希望自家想作一下  
> 結時涯騙單儕  
>   
> 涯想毋愛翻再去想汝  
> 試著雅時毋愛翻來同去  
> 萬tin个單儕在阿里  
> 每日？？偏偏轉著汝  
>   
> Jit khoi-si ngai mian to  
> Oi-chin pun ten chiu an jung-ji  
> So-ji ngai mo cin-cin siong-hi  
> An-nyong piong lok sim hi  
> Kiet-ko ngai jiu jit thon sim  
> Ngai khon to nyi kak-to ki  
> Ngai cang chi-to nyen-loi oi-chin  
> M he kong oi chiu tet nyi  
>   
> Ngai kam-thung thien kam-thung thi  
> Co-mai kam-thung m to nyi  
> Min-min oi-chin chiu mo kiet-ko  
> Co-mai si-si si ten to lo  
> Ngai kam-thung thien kam-thung thi  
> Co-mai kam-thung m to nyi  
> Hi-mong chi-ka hiau co jit-ha  
> Kiet-sii ngai phien tan-sa  
>   
> Ngai siong m oi fan-cai hi siong ngi  
> Chi-to nga si m oi fan lai thung-hi  
> Ban tin kai\* tan-sa choi a-li \*Pronounced "ke"  
> Mui nyit mei si phian-phian con to nyi  
>   
> At the start I thought  
> Love when it starts is very easy  
> So I don't really remember  
> How [I] put [you] in [my] heart  
> As a result I have a broken heart  
> [And] I see you going back to him  
> I've just found out love  
> Is not like just saying I love you is fine  
>   
> I move heaven and move earth,  
> Why can I not move you?  
> It's clear that love [will] have no result  
> Why do I wait so persistently till I get old?  
> I move heaven and move earth,  
> Why can I not move you?  
> Hoping I would do something  
> I ended up deceiving myself  
>   
> I don't want to love you again  
> I know I don't want to spend my time with you again  
> Here alone, suffering a lot,  
> Every day (mei shi) I constantly come back to you

I am awaiting confirmation on my guesses for lines 2-3 of the hard bit, and am not sure about the last line, besides the hole. The idea of `惦` might be a good one: "每日mei shi惦惦转着你", Every day I remember of you or think of you, though there are too many "verbal prepositions", I mean, 转 and 着 can both serve the function of result complements (ex "翻译转" = "翻译成" and "想着你" = "想到你“）, but both together seem far-fetched. A way to fix the 时 controversy is to spell that 结事, which Minhakka would read kiet-sii, and interpret it as typically Hakka, and a "tone" word, in Li-ting's terminology.

**Update**

I notified the fb group of this answer, and Dylan Whs commented suggesting:

> 反正：横正；横掂 in any case
>
> Vang cin ~ ban tin
>
> 横正涯单儕在那位
>
> 每日每時點點想到汝

This certainly solved the mysterious `bam ting e`, getting `bam ting` to `vang-cin`, similar to `bang-tin`, and `e` to `ngai`, transformed to `nge` in singing, the ng of which seemed to stick to the tin making it ting. The substitiution of `choi a-li` with `choi a-bui` I would reject since it doesn't match what I hear. "mui shi" for "mei shi" is also some problem. But then, responding to my comment posing these problems, he said:

> Just guesses ;')

So I will go back to my choi a-li and keep my doubts on "mei shi" alive but adopt that as a temporary solution while waiting for a better option. With that, the problematic part became:

> 涯想毋愛翻再去想汝  
> 試著雅時毋愛翻來同去  
> 横正涯單儕在阿里  
> 每日每時偏偏想著汝  
>   
> Ngai siong m oi fan-cai hi siong ngi  
> Chi-to nga si m oi fan lai thung-hi  
> Vang-cin ngai\* tan-sa choi a-li *Pronounced "ban-tin nge"  
> Mui nyit mui si* phian-phian con to nyi \*"Mei shi" waiting for better alternative  
>   
> I think I won't think of you anymore  
> I know I won't use my time to go with you again  
> In any case I'm here alone,  
> And every day, all the time, I constantly think of you.

So I also rejected the "點點" and the spelling of to, but accepted siong as more matching what I hear than my con.

**Final Update**

My friend just posted [this other video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9js2Eb6haw&sns=fb), and with the help of that I think I finally cracked everything. Here is the lyrics from the new video:

> 一开始涯缅着  
> 爱情本等就恁容易  
> 所以涯无真真想起  
> 恁样放落心去  
> 结果涯有一断心  
> 涯看着你佮着佢  
> 涯正知道原来爱情  
> 毋系讲爱就得宜  
>   
> 涯感动天感动地  
> 做么感动毋着你  
> 明明爱情就无结果  
> 做么死死等到老  
> 涯感动天感动地  
> 做么感动毋着你  
> 希望自家晓做一下  
> 结果涯骗单侪  
>   
> 一開始涯緬著  
> 爱情本等就恁容易  
> 所以涯无真真想记  
> 恁样放落心去  
> 结果涯有一短信  
> 涯看着你佮着佢  
> 涯正知道原来爱情  
> 毋系讲爱就得矣  
>   
> 涯感动天感动地  
> 做么感动毋着你  
> 明明爱情就无结果  
> 做么死死等到老  
> 涯感动天感动地  
> 做么感动毋着你  
> 希望自家晓做一下  
> 结果涯骗单侪  
>   
> 涯想毋爱翻再去想你  
> 想着涯心毋爱翻同去  
> 万正系单侪在阿里  
> 每日每时偏偏想着你  
>   
> 涯感动天…

which, aided by Minhakka, I transliterated as:

> Yit khoi-chí ngâi m(i)én tò  
> Òi-tshîn pún-tén tshiù àn yûng-yì  
> Só-yi ngâi mô cin-cin sióng-khí  
> Àn-nyòng piòng lo'k sim hì  
> Kiet-kwó ngâi yìu yit thon sim  
> Ngâi khòn tò nyî kak tò kî  
> Ngâi càng chì-tò nyên-lôi òi-tshîn  
> M hè kóng òi tshiù tet-nyî  
>   
> Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì  
> Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî  
> Mîn-mîn òi-tshîn tshiù mô kiet-kwó  
> Tsò-mài sí-sí tén teu ló  
> Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì  
> Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî  
> Hi-mòng tshìi-ka hiáu tsò yit-hà  
> Kiet-kwó ngâi phièn tan-sâ  
>   
> Yit khoi-chí ngâi m(i)én tò  
> Òi-tshîn pún-tén tshiù àn yûng-yì  
> Só-yi ngâi mô cin-cin sióng-khí  
> Àn-nyòng piòng lo'k sim hì  
> Kiet-kwó ngâi yìu yit thon sim  
> Ngâi khòn tò nyî kak tò kî  
> Ngâi càng chì-tò nyên-lôi òi-tshîn  
> M hè kóng òi tshiù tet-nyî  
>   
> Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì  
> Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî  
> Mîn-mîn òi-tshîn tshiù mô kiet-kwó  
> Tsò-mài sí-sí tén teu ló  
> Ngâi kám-thùng thien kám-thùng thì  
> Tsò-mài kám-thùng m tò nyî  
> Hi-mòng tshìi-ka hiáu tsò yit-hà  
> Kiet-kwó ngâi phièn tan-sâ  
>   
> Ngâi sióng m òi fan-tsài hì sióng nyî  
> Sióng tò nga sim m òi fan thûng-hì  
> Vàn-cìn hè tan-sâ tshoi a-li  
> Mui-nyit mui-shî phien-phien sióng to nyî  
>   
> Ngâi kám-thùng thien…

Note: pún-tén means "of course", and vàn-cìn is half made-up and should mean "anyway". Vàn-cìn is naturally based on the suggestion by Dylah Whs, but modified in the first character since Minhakka wouldn't give anything but fán for 反 followed by 正.

**Final version**

I came back to this song in the context of [this blog post](http://michelegorini.blogspot.it/2017/08/all-chinese-songs-i-have-met.html), where you can find the song with "correct" spelling and Mandarin glosses for all Hakka words as Ruby text (Furigana-like, if you know what that means), plust a full translation. I decided to modify Dylan Whs's suggestion to `万阵系 | vàn-chìn hè`, so it matches what I heard better, and the spelling of `vàn-chìn` matches the meaning, more or less (better than before). And it's nice to know that the choice of `hè` was one I also made in the past :). I also thought about that "hit" mishearing: could it be `迄 | hit | to reach unto` or `汔 | hit | to shed tears`? Time to hear from Hakka Verse again! :)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: That "hit" could also be 泣 | hip | weep silently, mind you.  

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### Answer by username_2 on 2015-08-21. Score: 1

結時涯騙單儕 mean 都是我騙自己 in Chinese. It can be translated like "just deceiving myself". 結時 is just Hakka tone for speak out, not really a word in this song. You can translate the Chinese word that sentence in the YouTube video. That Chinese sentence can translate nearly
But 做麽死死等到老 is correct, not 卻還死心塌地. 做麽死死等到老 means 就這麼死死等到老. It can be translated like "waiting you persist until the end"

That last part that Hakka pinyin is..
"老豆七嘎mu'ooei勾敻里
試懂呀西雅翻來同起
萬其一單色在阿里
每日惦惦敻刀里"

That song is sung like 粵語 (Cantonese) a little bit. Maybe it's different how they speak Hakka in different countries.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: This doesn't really anwer the question which is about another bit of the song, the one corresponding to Mandarin "Yiwei ziji bu zai qu xiang ni ... Que hai xiangyao zhidao ni de xiaoxi". Useful info though. Consider editing your answer to include an answer to the question, i.e. how I should spell and understand the lyrics of the bit I mentioned before.  
> **username_0**: Is there any good reason not to be able to paste stuff into comments from mobile? I tried to paste the characters for the pinyin into the previous comment but no way, and even this comment didn't allow pasting...  
> **username_2**: how I should spell and understand the lyrics of the bit I mentioned before->it's difficult like that how could I speak English as my native language  
> **username_0**: To complete the comments above, the characters were "以为自己不再去想你…却还想要知道你的消息".  
> **username_0**: What does that part mean?  
> **username_0**: I can't understand that part. The spelling you give makes little sense to me and to the admin of the facebook group Hakka verse, who is just about as close as you can get to mother tongue Hakka. Could you please give a translation for it? Also, those characters do not match the sounds I hear in the video, so there must be some mistake in them. And what on earth is "mu'ooei" supposed to mean??  
> **username_0**: Discussing with that admin, I concluded the first line ought to be "涯想毋愛翻再去想汝 | Ngai siong ng oi fan-cai hi siong nyi" which is a near-exact translation of "以为自己不再去想你".  
> **username_0**: As for "做麽死死等到老 | Co-mai si-si ten to lo", I don't quite gather your objection, since the main point I make in the post is that 死死等到老 is similar to "sixintadi", and you translate it with "persist", which is the meaning of "sixintadi" unless I'm much mistaken, and your only correction seems to be that 做麽 to you is "like this", but IIRC I've seen it used in the fb group as "why", and 麽 (mai) is a question word (means "what?"), so co-mai should really mean "why" and not "like this". Please elaborate.  

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