[04:08] <twb> In lucid, I have an upstart task that runs "iptables-restore /etc/iptab".
[04:09] <twb> If this fails, I want the system to freak out and disable all services -- say, switching to single-user mode.
[04:09] <twb> How would I configure this?
[04:46] <twb> Can I have two "pre-start exec" lines (instead of a pre-start script)?
[06:06] <mbiebl> twb: no
[06:40] <twb> Okey dokey
[18:21] <atpa8a> hello
[18:21] <atpa8a> any clues how i can enforce that the all of the network interfaces are up before sysvinit scripts run?..
[18:28] <Keybuk> atpa8a: I've already answered your question three times
[18:29]  * ion notices Keybuk isn’t a Conan fan.
[18:29] <Keybuk> Conan?
[18:30] <atpa8a> Keybuk: sorry, must've missed
[18:30] <Keybuk> atpa8a: to change the state in which sysvinit scripts are run, you edit the /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf file
[18:30] <ion> keybuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNu3MW-lb6Y
[18:30] <Keybuk> and change the "start on" kine
[18:31] <Keybuk> as you can see, right now it says to start when the *loopback* network interface is up
[18:31] <Keybuk> but no other
[18:31] <Keybuk> if you alter that start on line, you can delay sysvinit scripts as long as you like
[18:31] <Keybuk> e.g. until all network interfaces are up
[18:31] <Keybuk> or until the cows come home
[18:31] <atpa8a> Keybuk: i tried removing that IFACE= at all and tried making it IFACE=eth0 but nothing helped
[18:32] <atpa8a> still slapd fails to start because the network is not up yet
[18:33] <atpa8a> start on filesystem and net-device-up IFACE=eth0
[18:33] <atpa8a> that's what i have there now
[18:35] <atpa8a>  slapd[2826]: daemon: bind(9) failed errno=99 (Cannot assign
[18:35] <atpa8a>  requested address)
[18:36] <Keybuk> atpa8a: is eth0 the right interface?
[18:36] <Keybuk> then it's likely that slapd is in fact waiting for something else
[18:36] <atpa8a> yes
[18:36] <atpa8a> well
[18:37] <atpa8a> slapd needs eth0:0 really
[18:37] <atpa8a> should i try that?
[18:37] <Keybuk> aha! bridges
[18:37] <atpa8a> aliases
[18:37] <Keybuk> right
[18:37] <Keybuk> so you need to add something like "and started networking"
[18:37] <Keybuk> e.g.
[18:37] <atpa8a> is there like... IFACE=all?
[18:37] <Keybuk> start on filesystem and net-device-up IFACE=lo and started networking
[18:38] <Keybuk> meaning filesystem ready, loopback device up, and all virtual devices
[18:38] <Keybuk> no, because then you'd have to define "all"
[18:38] <atpa8a> gotcha
[18:38] <atpa8a> started networking should work
[18:38] <Keybuk> e.g. on a laptop with a USB ethernet device, does "all" mean including that or not?
[18:38] <Keybuk> and if it means including that, what if it's not plugged in?
[18:38] <atpa8a> i see
[18:39] <Keybuk> you may want
[18:39] <Keybuk> start on filesystem \
[18:39] <Keybuk>   and net-device-up IFACE=lo \
[18:39] <Keybuk>   and net-device-up IFACE=eth0 \
[18:39] <Keybuk>   and started networking
[18:39] <Keybuk> because you'll want eth0 as well as the alises
[18:40] <atpa8a> can't i just use 'and started networkin' without net-device-up?..
[18:40] <SpamapS> started networking just means ifup -a returned
[18:40] <atpa8a> ok... so that would supercede net-device-up, right?
[18:40] <Keybuk> no
[18:41] <Keybuk> they do different things
[18:41] <SpamapS> nope.. ifup just starts the things that configure the ifaces
[18:41] <Keybuk> physical network devices, for which you have hardware, are up when you get net-device-up
[18:41] <Keybuk> non-physical network devices (virtual, bridges, aliases) are up on the ifup -a
[18:41] <atpa8a> got it
[18:42] <atpa8a> trying
[18:42] <SpamapS> Tho it does mean all statically configured devices are up.. right?
[18:42] <atpa8a> thanks a bunch
[18:42] <atpa8a> hmm
[18:42] <Keybuk> SpamapS: no, because at the point networking runs, the actual devices may not have modules loaded yet ;)
[18:42] <Keybuk> SpamapS: so you can't guarantee that
[18:42] <atpa8a> should i... just in case add eth1 as well?
[18:42] <Keybuk> atpa8a: at some point it's worth filing a bug that slapd should use IP_FREEBIND
[18:42] <SpamapS> Keybuk: so ifup -a may fork modprobes and such, even for   iface eth0 inet static ?
[18:42] <Keybuk> but that's for another day ;)
[18:43] <Keybuk> SpamapS: ifup doesn't fork modprobes unless you've stuck modprobe in a pre-up ;)
[18:43] <atpa8a> Keybuk: thought about just filing a bug with ubuntu to fix rc-sysvinit.conf
[18:43] <Keybuk> atpa8a: fix?
[18:43] <Keybuk> atpa8a: this is not considered a bug in Ubuntu
[18:43] <Keybuk> Ubuntu has *never* delayed starting services until after network interfaces are configured
[18:43] <Keybuk> this is because the default out-of-the-box behaviour in Ubuntu isn't to configure network interfaces until *user login*
[18:44] <Keybuk> services are supposed to work without a configured network interface
[18:44] <SpamapS> Keybuk: so started networking should mean all statically configured, non transient hardware, has been configured. yes?
[18:44] <Keybuk> thus the IP_FREEBIND
[18:44] <Keybuk> SpamapS: yes
[18:44] <Keybuk> SpamapS: assuming you have such a thing
[18:44] <atpa8a> hmm
[18:44] <SpamapS> Keybuk: thinking about servers mostly
[18:45] <SpamapS> Is IP_FREEBIND POSIX or a linux innovation?
[18:45] <atpa8a> so if my interfaces are all static, 'and started networking' should be enough?
[18:45] <Keybuk> Linux I believe
[18:45] <Keybuk> atpa8a: yes
[18:45] <SpamapS> I could see it being a problem for some upstreams if its linux only.
[18:45] <Keybuk> atpa8a: though see notes about modprobe above
[18:45] <Keybuk> SpamapS: #ifdef is their friend
[18:46] <SpamapS> Right, most will be fine w/ that
[18:46] <atpa8a> Keybuk: sure, thanks a bunch
[18:46] <SpamapS> some will be adamantly opposed.
[18:46] <atpa8a> i've a feeling slapd might be one of those
[18:46] <Keybuk> SpamapS: if you can find any upstream not using at least one Linux-specific API, I'd be impressed ;-)
[18:46] <Keybuk> and that's why distros carry patches
[18:46] <Keybuk> after all, as soon as you see setsockopt() or ioctl() or anything like that - you're in linux-specific-land
[18:47] <SpamapS> Keybuk: I've recently proposed hanging rc-sysinit to start on filesystem and started networking rather than net-device-up IFACE=lo so that users can expect that any static interfaces will always be configured before runlevel 2.... given what we've talked about here.. I think that its still a good idea.
[18:47] <SpamapS> s/hanging/changing/
[18:47] <Keybuk> SpamapS: the trouble there is you run the risk of locking the boot
[18:47] <Keybuk> because people use sysvinit to bring up the dependencies of static interfaces
[18:48] <Keybuk> in theory though I have no problem with delaying rc-sysinit as long as you like
[18:48] <Keybuk> because things should not be using rc-sysinit
[18:48] <Keybuk> slapd should have its own .conf etc.
[18:48] <SpamapS> Hanging it or failing a bunch of stuff..  But we need a generic solution.
[18:49] <SpamapS> Keybuk: its own.conf that will 'start on runlevel [2345]' ? ;)
[18:49] <Keybuk> we don't even *have* rc-sysinit on Chromium OS after all ;-)
[18:49] <Keybuk> SpamapS: I thought you were introducing jobs to replace those? :)
[18:49] <SpamapS> I am.. definitely. Haven't gotten much traction on those.
[18:49] <Keybuk> I always take no traction as silent assent ;
[18:49] <Keybuk> ;)
[18:49] <SpamapS> Right.. my DMB app has been delayed twice unfortunately.
[18:50] <atpa8a> upstart scrips for slapd and a few other services are nowhere to be found for ubuntu
[18:50] <SpamapS> otherwise I might have uploaded network-services.conf and wait-for-state.conf already. :)
[18:50] <atpa8a> i did consider making my own but... i'm not an experienced SA
[18:50] <Keybuk> atpa8a: bug! :p
[18:50] <atpa8a> don't know the intricacies
[18:50] <atpa8a> Keybuk: there's a bug already but it's on hold
[18:50]  * atpa8a is java dev
[18:51] <atpa8a> SA is a hobby :P
[18:52] <atpa8a> bb
[18:52] <atpa8a> testing the script
[18:55] <Keybuk> ion: you realise that killed my X server and I hate you, right? :-)
[18:56] <ion> Eh :-D
[18:56] <Keybuk> flash seems to hate dual-head non-twinview nvidia
[19:00] <wraiden> hello, is anyone actively working on /proc/PID/oom_score_adj support? /proc/PID/oom_adj is deprecated and upstarts oom stanza uses this interface...
[19:00] <Keybuk> wraiden: nobody is actively working on it
[19:00] <wraiden> i ask because i don't want to do duplicated work on this if anyone has picked the issue up allreda
[19:00] <wraiden> k
[19:00] <Keybuk> so please feel free to pick it up
[19:01] <wraiden> k
[19:01] <Keybuk> I believe both APIs are still supported, right?
[19:01] <wraiden> will take a similar aproach as udev
[19:01] <wraiden> yes
[19:01] <Keybuk> try and write to oom_score_adj
[19:02] <wraiden> but it polutes dmesg with a warning
[19:02] <Keybuk> if that fails with EEXIST, fall back to oom_adj ?
[19:02] <wraiden> yes
[19:02] <wraiden> and no
[19:02] <wraiden> udev checks for filepointer lower than 0
[19:02] <wraiden> so other errorcodes are picked up to
[19:03] <wraiden> i think
[19:03] <Keybuk> right, but you also want to check errno
[19:03] <Keybuk> if you got EPERM from oom_score_adj you shouldn't fall back to oom_adj
[19:03] <wraiden> i cook something up over the weekend
[19:03] <Keybuk> because you'll just get the same error ;-)
[19:03] <Keybuk> EEXIST should be the only reason to fallback
[19:03] <Keybuk> but please do cook a patch up, and send it to the ML
[19:03] <Keybuk> gratefully accepted
[19:04] <wraiden> aye sir ;)
[19:05] <wraiden> the only thing is that the score interface has grater values
[19:05] <wraiden> so the off case must be -1000
[19:06] <wraiden> the testsuite tests the values... could be problematic... as it will produce falsepositives on the offbound value checks
[19:06] <Keybuk> that is why we have a test suite ;-)
[19:06] <Keybuk> decide on appropriate behaviour, write tests for it, etc.
[19:06] <wraiden> mhm
[19:08] <atpa8a> hello again
[19:08] <atpa8a> those changes seem to hange the boot...
[19:08] <atpa8a> hang that is
[19:08] <Keybuk> atpa8a: that implies to me that your network interfaces are (at least, in part) brought up by sysvinit scripts
[19:08] <Keybuk> so your boot is:
[19:08] <Keybuk>  - waiting for networking to start sysvinit
[19:08] <Keybuk>  - unable to start networking because it's waiting for sysvinit
[19:08] <atpa8a> ok...
[19:08] <Keybuk> ie. deadlock
[19:09] <Keybuk> so here's your next trick:
[19:09] <Keybuk> remove the bits you added to rc-sysinit
[19:09] <Keybuk> now create a new job
[19:09] <Keybuk> /etc/init/slapd-interlock.conf
[19:09] <Keybuk>   start on slapd-interlock and net-device-up IFACE=eth1 and started networking
[19:09] <Keybuk> (that's it)
[19:09] <Keybuk> and in /etc/init.d/slapd, in the start case, add
[19:09] <Keybuk>   initctl emit slapd-interlock
[19:10] <atpa8a> hmm
[19:10] <Keybuk> you may need some protection here to make sure it only runs on actual boot, e.g. by checking $RUNLEVEL or some shit - I haven't fiddled with sysvinit scripts in a while to remember what that is
[19:10] <Keybuk> what this will do is:
[19:10] <Keybuk>   sysvinit scripts will start as normal
[19:10] <Keybuk>   slapd will start
[19:10] <Keybuk>   it will run "initctl emit slapd-interlock" and wait for that event to complete
[19:10] <Keybuk> the .conf file in Upstart will pick up that event, and block it
[19:10] <Keybuk> while it also waits for net-device-up IFACE=eth0 and started networking
[19:11] <atpa8a> (i think) i'm following...
[19:11] <Keybuk> and then when all three happen, that ".conf" is running, so the event is unblocked, so initctl emit finished, so slapd carries on
[19:11] <atpa8a> let me try\
[19:11] <atpa8a> thanks a bunch
[19:15] <atpa8a> hmm
[19:16] <atpa8a> seems like i cannot boot into single user mode either...
[19:20] <wraiden> keybuk: is it ok if i change the tests for offbound values in the testsuite to values for the score interface? the will be offbound in booth cases then and we can avoid to check two interfaces with distinct test code...
[19:21] <atpa8a> livecd ftw!
[19:23] <Keybuk> atpa8a: single user mode is a sysvinit thing ;-)
[19:23] <Keybuk> wraiden: you can change the tests, but be careful to not change the thing they're testing
[19:23] <Keybuk> current job files should work unchanged
[20:03] <atpa8a> hmm
[20:03] <atpa8a> Keybuk: would you say... it'd be better to call it networking-interlock.conf?
[20:04] <atpa8a> kinda a common thing for all services that face the same situation
[20:04] <atpa8a> and emit networking-interlock as well?
[20:04] <Keybuk> yes, but the first job would release the interlock
[20:04] <Keybuk> the second would hang
[20:04] <Keybuk> which is why it's specific to slapd
[20:05] <atpa8a> i see
[20:05] <atpa8a> can it be made generic?..
[20:09] <Keybuk> not without converting slapd to upstart
[20:11] <atpa8a> gotcha
[20:15] <atpa8a> hmm
[20:15] <atpa8a> just to confirm... i don't need 'start on filesystem' in slapd-interlock.conf, right?
[20:17] <Keybuk> right
[20:18] <atpa8a> thanks
[20:22] <atpa8a> what would happen if i just do /etc/init.d/slapd restart when there's the emit in it?
[20:24] <atpa8a> nothing happened...
[20:25] <atpa8a> ok...
[20:25] <atpa8a> trying booting now
[20:31] <atpa8a> hmm
[20:31] <atpa8a> something didn't work...
[20:33] <atpa8a> heh
[20:33] <atpa8a> typos :P
[20:35] <atpa8a> ok
[20:35] <atpa8a> now that i fixed it... it's not working when starting manually
[20:35] <atpa8a> gotta do the emit conditionally...
[20:46] <atpa8a> [ $RUNLEVEL ] && initctl emit slapd-interlock
[20:46] <atpa8a> that should do it\
[20:46] <atpa8a> testing
[20:58] <wraiden> mhm, the changed valid range of values for the oom handling isn't easy to handle...
[21:00] <wraiden> if i change it do accept 1000 to -1000 in the parser and change it by divide with 59 in the fallback (ugly hack, i know) we could get away wir
[21:00] <wraiden> *with a string change for any supported locale...
[21:04] <wraiden> another approach would be to check for the existence of /proc/self/oom_score_adj in init startup code, set a flag according to existence and use that to change behavior accordingly wich would eliminate ugly hacks to adapt the value in fallback case
[21:05] <wraiden> but that would complicate the testcase...
[21:07] <wraiden> btw: isn't EEXIST the error for "i want to crate a file but it exists" and not "file i want to open don't exist" ?
[21:08] <wraiden> posix manpage for open (which fopen refers to) defines it as the fist rather than the second...
[21:24] <wraiden> i'll take the flag oom_score_adj and check for the flag road...
[21:24] <wraiden> +existence
[21:37] <atpa8a> hmm
[21:37] <atpa8a> something isn't working...
[21:37] <atpa8a> http://pastie.org/1661174
[21:51] <atpa8a> but it says initctl status slapd-interlock                            ~
[21:51] <atpa8a> slapd-interlock start/running
[22:09] <atpa8a> hmm
[22:10] <atpa8a> fixed it by using 'net-device-up IFACE=eth0:3 \'
[22:10] <atpa8a> working now
[22:10] <atpa8a> thank you gents
[22:10] <atpa8a> Keybuk: thank you much!
[22:10] <Keybuk> oh cool
[22:10] <wraiden> isn't networking enough to check for?
[22:10] <Keybuk> I didn't even know you could do that :p
[22:11] <atpa8a> wraiden: apparently not
[22:11] <wraiden> y?
[22:11] <atpa8a> http://pastie.org/1661174
[22:11] <atpa8a> that was before i used IFACE=eth0:3 and it didn't work
[22:12] <wraiden> y do you add the interface up events?
[22:12] <atpa8a> hmm :P Keybuk recommended
[22:12] <wraiden> arnt they prerequisites for networking?
[22:13] <atpa8a> no
[22:13] <wraiden> ah
[22:14] <atpa8a> if you have a wiki i can drop this solution into, i'll document it
[22:14] <atpa8a> putting it in my private wiki now
[22:44] <atpa8a> thank you folkes
[22:44] <atpa8a> very helpful
[22:48] <wraiden> Keybuk: first compiletested only version without messing with the testsuite is here: http://pastie.org/1661386
[22:51] <Keybuk> my concern about that approach is that it changes the behaviour of Upstart if you reboot into an older kernel
[22:51] <Keybuk> suddenly jobs go from running to "parse error"
[22:52] <wraiden> yes
[22:53] <wraiden> problem here is that the interfaces arnt compatible with respect to value range ...
[22:54] <Keybuk> one approach to that would be
[22:54] <wraiden> a possible way out would be to accept the new range by default and
[22:54] <Keybuk> oom NN = old range
[22:54] <Keybuk> oom score NN = new range
[22:54] <wraiden> divide the value
[22:54] <Keybuk> and accept both
[22:54] <Keybuk> accepting the new range only would change the behaviour of existing jobs
[22:54] <Keybuk> (though I bet there are none out there using the score rather than just "never")
[22:55] <wraiden> that was my thinking eighter...
[22:57] <wraiden> a percent value would be nice
[22:57] <wraiden> could be used as operator to calculate the right value for each interface
[22:57] <wraiden> -operator + base
[22:58] <Keybuk> that's no real difference than just sticking to the old vange
[22:58] <Keybuk> range
[22:58] <Keybuk> more fun, "oom less than <other job>" and let upstart pick the values? :P
[22:59] <wraiden> that would by far overwehlm my rusty c skills *hehe*
[23:00] <bigdata> how do I set an environment variable in a job file?
[23:02] <wraiden> by reading: man 5 init
[23:02] <wraiden> search foe env
[23:02] <wraiden> *for
[23:04] <wraiden> i'll go for the "oom score =" one i think ...
[23:04] <Keybuk> well, no = in upstartyland but I think that makes the most sense
[23:05] <wraiden> jepp
[23:06] <wraiden> we need to support both interfaces, as noone upstream boundling conf files for upstart can predict which interface a user might have avaiable...
[23:07] <wraiden> that leads to the question: is any upstream package shipping upstart definitions?
[23:09] <wraiden> anyway a nice to have
[23:10] <Keybuk> wraiden: there are definitely both upstreams and distributions shipping upstart config files
[23:10] <Keybuk> so they must not be broken
[23:10] <wraiden> what to do in a case where the new interface is usable  but only the old one has defined value?
[23:10] <Keybuk> multiply it by sufficient numbers to turn it into the new value
[23:11] <wraiden> + and the old one is not available (after its removal)
[23:11] <Keybuk> the behaviours are the same, just the ranges have changed
[23:11] <wraiden> k
[23:11] <Keybuk> likewise if you only have new value in the .conf and only the old interface is available, you divide
[23:11] <wraiden> will hack that together...
[23:11] <Keybuk> (I'd multiply when parsing the old value so that the oom score in the job is always -1000..1000)
[23:12] <Keybuk> then divide again when writing to the old interface
[23:12] <wraiden> mhm
[23:25] <Keybuk> I wonder just how many bugs on LP, at this point, are about pre-stop being fucking busted?
[23:27] <wraiden> whats busted with it?
[23:28] <wraiden> the multiplying and dividing isn't easily possible...
[23:29] <Keybuk> why not easily possible?
[23:29] <Keybuk> there's an operator for them in C and everything <g>
[23:29] <wraiden> the values on the old interface are asyncronous reguarding positive and negative values
[23:29] <Keybuk> normalise the base, adjust the scale
[23:29] <wraiden> you cant get -16
[23:29] <Keybuk> maths 101
[23:30] <Keybuk> -16 is "the minimum" and -17 is "never" with +15 being "always"
[23:30] <Keybuk> so I guess you make +15 be 1000, -17 be -1000
[23:30] <wraiden> i would have used a simple * 62.5
[23:31] <Keybuk> optionally -16 is either -999 or -1000-1000/17
[23:31] <Keybuk> look at what the kerneld oes
[23:31] <Keybuk> ie. the code that deals with writing to the deprecated interface
[23:31] <Keybuk> I'm sure it already has the exact algorithm to scale to the new one
[23:35] <wraiden> if (task->signal->oom_adj == OOM_ADJUST_MAX)
[23:35] <wraiden>                 task->signal->oom_score_adj = OOM_SCORE_ADJ_MAX;
[23:36] <wraiden>         else
[23:36] <wraiden>                 task->signal->oom_score_adj = (oom_adjust * OOM_SCORE_ADJ_MAX) /
[23:36] <wraiden>                                                                 -OOM_DISABLE;
[23:37]  * wraiden feeds his cats...
[23:47] <bigdata> still trying to get the env setup up, I did read 'man 5 init', but the script being called does not see the PERL5LIB, any ideas http://pastebin.com/VDRdWM3V
[23:49] <Keybuk> it should
[23:49] <Keybuk> (though the "export PERL5LIB" there doesn't do what you think)
[23:51] <Keybuk> keybuk /root#
[23:51] <Keybuk> keybuk /root# cat /etc/init/test.conf
[23:51] <Keybuk> env DEMO=this:is:a:test
[23:51] <Keybuk> exec echo $DEMO > /tmp/demo
[23:51] <Keybuk> keybuk /root# start test
[23:51] <Keybuk> test start/running, process 13507
[23:51] <Keybuk> keybuk /root# cat /tmp/demo
[23:51] <Keybuk> this:is:a:test
[23:54] <wraiden> how about adding a oom_score_adj int to job_class so that we only need to calculate in the conf parsing case and just use what we have calculated?
[23:54] <Keybuk> that's what I meant
[23:59] <bigdata> your right, it did work


[20:18] <qwebirc73269> need to upgrade my mythbuntu BE/FE motherboard, so looking for CPU/Mobo recommendations, need at least 2 pcie (1 for my GT430), at least 1 PCI and at least 4 SATA ports, low cost preferred
[20:19] <qwebirc73269> looking at AMD A6-5600K, thoughts?
[20:41] <louisdk> I've stayed on  Mythbuntu 12.04 to have a stable system. Would you recommand me to upgrade to Mythtv 0.26 and if this release is better and more stable why isn't it bundled and an upgrade for existing Ubuntu 12.04 users?
[21:08] <SparksIT> In MythTV, when trying to transcode, how do I choose which format it will transcode to?
[21:08] <SparksIT> I'm using the instructions here -> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Removing_Commercials
[21:08] <Zinn> [www.mythtv.org] Removing Commercials - MythTV Official Wiki
[21:09] <SparksIT> it tells me to go to mythfrontend -> utilities/setup -> TV Settings --> recording Profiles -> Transcoders but I can't seem to find the TV settings


[09:45] <alkisg> Boot 16.04 64bit with init=/bin/bash, then `free` => 49M used. For 22.04 => 86M. For 23.04 => 300M.
[09:45] <alkisg> How can I find out what in the kernel configuration takes 200+ more MB RAM in 23.04? I don't see anything weird in ps or in lsmod...
[09:51] <arighi> alkisg, `slabtop -s c` maybe can tell if the kernel itself is using too much memory in some slab caches, moreover `free -m` would help to understand if most of the memory is page cache or actually allocated memory (I guess you already measured these values after dropping page cache, e.g., `echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches`?)
[09:54] <alkisg> Output of `uname -a; free; lsmod; ps faux` for 22.10, i.e. 89M used: https://termbin.com/r5q8
[09:54] <alkisg> Output for 23.04, i.e. 344M used: https://termbin.com/ox2b
[09:54] <alkisg> I'm looking at the "used" column, so caches are excluded; will check slabtop now
[10:03] <alkisg> Output of slabtop -s c -o for 23.04: https://termbin.com/uwj8v
[10:04] <alkisg> (dropping the caches makes no difference, it's too early in the boot process, no significant cache usage yet)
[10:05] <alkisg> Output of slabtop -s c -o for 22.10: https://termbin.com/5v3s
[14:28] <LocutusOfBorg> Hello, I tried to run dkms autopkgtests on official autopkgtest machines
[14:28] <LocutusOfBorg> +EFI variables are not supported on this system
[14:28] <LocutusOfBorg> +/sys/firmware/efi/efivars not found, aborting.
[14:29] <LocutusOfBorg> I don't think "modprobe efivars" is sufficient to fix this, right?
[14:29] <LocutusOfBorg> see<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:30] <LocutusOfBorg> on armhf I get a "better error" "Secure Boot not enabled on this system."
[14:30] <LocutusOfBorg> ^^ this is on arm64, while on armhf I get "Binary update-secureboot-policy not found, modules won't be signed"
[14:31] <LocutusOfBorg> (same armhf on ppc64el and s390x)
[14:31] <LocutusOfBorg> and I don't think adding shim-signed will fix, right?
[14:46] <arighi> LocutusOfBorg, from a kernel perspective /sys/firmware/evi/efivars should be populated when the efivars fs is mounted, like `mount -t efivarfs none /sys/firmware/efi/efivars`, not sure why it doesn't show up on this test system...
[14:47] <arighi> I'm wondering what would happen if you try to mount that manually (not sure if it's possible)
[15:12] <LocutusOfBorg> arighi, thanks
[15:12] <LocutusOfBorg> the test has "needs-root"
[15:12] <LocutusOfBorg> soooooo maaaaaaaaaybe :D
[15:13] <LocutusOfBorg> testing on https://launchpad.net/~costamagnagianfranco/+archive/ubuntu/locutusofborg-ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=lunar
[15:19] <LocutusOfBorg> well, at least on arm64 it says "Secure Boot not enabled on this system"
[15:19] <LocutusOfBorg><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:21] <LocutusOfBorg> mount: /sys/firmware/efi/efivars: mount point does not exist.
[16:21] <LocutusOfBorg> damn
[17:34] <alkisg> Anything else I could try to see why the kernel needs 300+ MB RAM in 23.04, compared to 90- MB in 22.10? (see above for details and pastebins)
[18:25] <sarnold> alkisg: it's a wild-guess shot in the dark, but check dmesg | grep -i crash  on both? I have a very vague memory of the crashdump default being raised, or discussed to be raised?, or something similar anyway :)
[19:46] <alkisg> sarnold: thanks; unfortunately there's nothing in `dmesg | grep -i crash` in 23.04
[19:53] <alkisg> (nor in 22.10)
[20:12] <sarnold> alkisg: dang. well, not all my wild ass guesses work out :(
[20:12] <sarnold> alkisg: how about /proc/meminfo on both?
[20:12] <alkisg> Meh, it looks like it's an initramfs issue, not a kernel issue. I installed the 23.04 kernel in 22.04 and it doesn't have increased memory usage
[20:13] <alkisg> I wonder if it's not freeing up the initrd memory. Looking more into it...
[20:47] <alkisg> Heh. I put `break=bottom` and ran `mount --bind /proc /root/proc; chroot /root free`. 22.10 says 75M used, 23.04 says 730M used.
[20:47] <alkisg> I think many 1GB cloud servers/VMs won't be able to boot at all anymore...
[21:15] <arighi> LocutusOfBorg, hm.. don't you have /sys/firmware/efi and /sys/firmware/efivars?
[21:16] <arighi> alkisg, I'm wondering if the initramfs is bigger because mkinitramfs started to put linux-modules-extra modules to the initramfs in 23.04...


[00:01]  * pleia2 nudges ClassBot
[00:02] <pleia2> ok, let's get started
[00:02] <pleia2> Hi everyone! Welcome to a short class on being an operator (+o) in #ubuntu-women and #ubuntu-women-project
[00:03] <pleia2> We'll have a pretty informal class here, so please feel free to jump in at any time and ask questions :)
[00:03] <pleia2> who all is here for it?
[00:03] <MichelleQ> o/
[00:04]  * charlie-tca waves
[00:04] <arand> \o
[00:04] <pleia2> OK, we'll start off with some basics about opping in our channels
[00:04] <pleia2> Operator status in the channels is given to responsible volunteers who have a history with the project and we (current ops) feel we can trust. Addition is pretty informal so if you've been with us for a while you're welcome to ask me.
[00:05] <pleia2> this is not consistant across ubuntu namespace
[00:05] <pleia2> Now, this class will cover a lot of the basics of being an op so will be applicable to opping in other channels, but the etiquette section of this class will be targeted at handling the types of trolls our channels frequently encounter
[00:06] <pleia2> and for the other ops in the audience - if you have some information I missed (or get wrong!) please feel free to jump in and add/correct as needed
[00:06] <pleia2> = Class Outline =
[00:07] <pleia2> 1. Etiquette
[00:07] <pleia2> 2. Basic technical op basics: freenode and channel options, opping yourself, removing a user, banning a user
[00:07] <pleia2> 3. Writing good bans
[00:07] <pleia2> starting with the fun one :)
[00:07] <pleia2> = Etiquette =
[00:07] <pleia2> First and foremost, as an op you have a responsibility to the community to uphold the rules, tactfully handle abusive users and set an example for other members of the channel
[00:08] <pleia2> As an Ubuntu channel we are upheld to the standards of ops throughout the Ubuntu namespace: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines
[00:08] <pleia2> and of course to the Code of Conduct http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[00:09] <pleia2> Additionally, as our channel presents certain challenges, so we have our own guidelines which can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines and a page with further Op guidelines is here: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IRCOpGuidelines
[00:10] <pleia2> As we frequently get trolled for being a feminist project, it's important to anticipate this kind of trolling and be informed about it, an interested document on the subject can be found here: http://rkcsi.indiana.edu/archive/CSI/WP/WP02-03B.html
[00:10] <pleia2> er, interesting
[00:11] <pleia2> I actually re-read this document last night while doing my final prep on this class, given the recent discussions about our channels, logging policies and safe spaces, it was even more enlightening and useful than the first time I read it :)
[00:11] <pleia2> so I'd strongly encourage everyone to have a look, even if they just skim it
[00:12] <pleia2> So, in our channel there is a delicate balance that we must seek to maintain to be welcoming to all and handling questions about the project from those who honestly wish to learn, while also protecting our members from users who wish to do harm
[00:12] <pleia2> this isn't easy, I still make mistakes sometimes - either by letting someone troll too long or removing too quickly
[00:12] <pleia2> to help us with this, if you ever have questions about whether a user should be removed or how to handle a situation, please don't hesitate to private message another op and ask their opinion
[00:13] <pleia2> we also have a number of current and former irc council members who spend time in the channel, and they're all friendly if you want an outside opinion :)
[00:13] <pleia2> Now, the escalation process for handling disruptive users:
[00:14] <pleia2> (again, this is not uniform across ubuntu namespace, this is the procedure we've developed in #ubuntu-women and #ubuntu-women-project)
[00:14] <pleia2> 1. If someone appears to be disruptive, try to get a handle on the core of their purpose. Maybe they are not intentionally be troublesome.
[00:15] <pleia2> so perhaps you ask why they joined, what interest they have in the project
[00:15] <pleia2> 2. Issue a warning
[00:15] <pleia2> this is often done privately if their behavior borderline as an attempt to nudge them back into respecting the intent of the channel
[00:16] <pleia2> but a public warning may be issued if the infraction is more overt - remember, part of our job is making sure our members feel safe, we want them to know that attentive ops are paying attention
[00:16] <pleia2> 3. Ask them to leave
[00:17] <pleia2> warnings may not be enough, so a simple "you're not welcome here" notice does actually get rid of some folks who are causing trouble
[00:17] <pleia2> 4. Remove them from the channel
[00:17] <pleia2> I typically just remove users rather than setting a ban right away, but it depends on the situation
[00:18] <pleia2> if they keep trolling...
[00:18] <pleia2> 5. Ban
[00:18] <pleia2> Once the user has been taken care of, please deop yourself
[00:19] <pleia2> this whole process can frequently be stressful (yep, even to seasoned ops!) so it's important that you work at friendly throughout this whole process
[00:19] <pleia2> ..even if they refuse to treat you with respect, even private message you after hurling insults, do your best to deal with this professionally too
[00:19] <pleia2> frequently trolls are looking for getting a reaction, acting reasonably and maturely to remove a problem counters this
[00:20] <pleia2> Any questions? Comments?
[00:21] <pleia2> ok, we'll get to the technical aspects we all came for :)
[00:21] <pleia2> = Basic technical op basics =
[00:21] <pleia2> First, we'll start off with the network itself. Ubuntu IRC channels reside on the freenode irc network - this is where you end up when you log on to irc.ubuntu.com
[00:21] <pleia2> The freenode network uses software called "ircd seven" and freenode has an excellent page to get you started learning how to use the network and the available channel and user modes here: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
[00:22] <pleia2> To quickly cover some important things, there are "user modes" on the network which determine attributes of a user, and "channel modes" which set attributes of channels on the network. Knowing what these are is pretty useful, so keep this document handy :)
[00:22] <Pici> May I add that its by no means necessary to memorize what all the different modes mean.
[00:23]  * pleia2 memorizes very little, has memory capacity of a sieve
[00:23] <pleia2> thanks Pici
[00:23] <pleia2> Now, to cover some basics you'll need as an op, I have documented much of this over on a page I wrote a few years ago: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Courses/IRCOp
[00:23] <pleia2> First, if you're an op in the channel, how do you op up?
[00:24] <pleia2> /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-women
[00:24] <pleia2> For more about what you can do with chanserv, /msg chanserv help
[00:24] <pleia2> How do you remove your op status?
[00:24] <pleia2> /msg chanserv deop #ubuntu-women
[00:25] <pleia2> How do you remove a user?
[00:25] <pleia2> /remove #ubuntu-women nickname
[00:25] <pleia2> ..but in some clients, like irssi, you will need to: /quote remove #ubuntu-women nickname
[00:25] <pleia2> just play around and see how your client works (we'll have a playing session over in ##pleia2 after this session)
[00:26] <pleia2> We like to "remove" rather than "kick" because this makes the client think it was a /part and so doesn't trigger auto-rejoin
[00:26] <pleia2> (and remove tends to be the "preferred freenode way")
[00:27] <pleia2> So, how do you ban a user?
[00:27] <pleia2> A simple ban can usually be added with:
[00:27] <pleia2> /ban nickname
[00:27] <pleia2> But often the automatic ban a client sets isn't good enough, so now we'll talk about writing good bans
[00:27] <pleia2> any questions before we get to that?
[00:30] <pleia2> so over in #ubuntu-classroom-chat someone asked about why /quote may need to be used
[00:30] <pleia2> ;)
[00:31] <pleia2> this is because /remove is not a command that irssi understands, and it won't automatically pass things it doesn't understand to the server
[00:32] <pleia2> so for commands like that in irssi you need to use /quote
[00:32] <pleia2> alright, let's move on
[00:32] <pleia2> (oh, and you don't need to ask questions in -chat, feel free to speak freely here :))
[00:32] <pleia2> = Writing good bans =
[00:33] <pleia2> Writing bans is an intimidating topic at first, but it turns out that it's actually not that hard!
[00:33] <pleia2> When a user joins a channel, you'll typically see something like:
[00:33] <pleia2> MeanTroll<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu-women
[00:33] <pleia2> (in some clients you may need to enable viewing hostnames)
[00:34] <pleia2> There are 3 important pieces of this which can be targeted in a ban: nickname (MeanTroll), ident (verybad) and hostname (<IP_ADDRESS>-example.com)
[00:34] <pleia2> In a ban stanza, it would look like: nickname!ident@hostname
[00:35] <pleia2> notice that a ! separates nickname and ident, and the @ symbol is put before hostname
[00:35] <pleia2> there are more options with this, which nhandler will cover in a bit, but this is a basic ban
[00:36] <pleia2> So in this example<EMAIL_ADDRESS>would be a ban exactly matching their nickname, ident and hostname
[00:36] <pleia2> Any questions so far?
[00:37] <pleia2> Ok, well, this is not a great ban, since the offending user could just change their nickname and get back in to the channel - we need to write a better ban
[00:37] <pleia2> It's easy to change a nickname (just "/nick SuperMeanTroll" and they get past our ban!) so here is how to ban based on ident and hostname:
[00:38] <pleia2> /mode +b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:38] <pleia2> As you can see we put a * where the nickname used to be, this is a wildcard
[00:38] <pleia2> What if they decide to change their ident too?
[00:38] <pleia2> /mode +b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:39] <pleia2> again, a * is put where the ident used to be
[00:39] <pleia2> the asterisk can be used in conjunction with other numbers and letters too, so if a person always has "bad" in their ident, you can do something like  /mode +b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:40] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: is * the only wildcard, or can do you some regex-style matching too?
[00:40] <erUSUL> what if they change nick ident and renew ip with his/her isp? back to square one ;)
[00:40] <pleia2> regarding mhall119's question - there are some options here, nhandler will cover them :)
[00:40] <pleia2> erUSUL: that's next!
[00:40] <pleia2> So, what if they get really desperate and reset their modem to get a new hostname?
[00:40] <pleia2> You can try: /mode +b<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:41] <pleia2> But be careful - this will ban everyone coming from the exmaple.com service provider
[00:41] <pleia2> and honestly this ban should only be put in place in emergencies and should be accompanied by joining #freenode and reporting that there is a user who is evading bans
[00:42] <pleia2> there are also users who evade by using "proxies" which make writing bans essentially useless, this too is against freenode policy and should be reported
[00:42] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: is using proxies in general against freenode policy, or just to avoid bans?
[00:43] <pleia2> "proxy" is a broad term
[00:43] <pleia2> technically anyone who runs irssi from a server elsewhere is using a "proxy" since they aren't connecting from their originating connection
[00:43] <pleia2> and of course this is ok :)
[00:43] <pleia2> same with bouncers you run, etc
[00:44] <pleia2> I don't know the precise policy (maybe a freenode staffer can help me out here) but in general abusing proxies which frequently aren't yours to cause trouble is where freenode starts putting in rules
[00:44] <nhandler> freenode also bans open proxies
[00:45] <pleia2> there we go, thanks nhandler :)
[00:45] <nhandler> http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#proxies
[00:45] <pleia2> any more questions about basic bans before I hand things off to nhandler to explain extbans?
[00:46] <pleia2> alright, well, freenode also has "Extbans" which are discussed more at http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml which are used less frequently but you will see them
[00:46] <pleia2> nhandler: all yours!
[00:46] <nhandler> Thanks pleia2
[00:46]  * pleia2 didn't know about these, and didn't have time to get up to speed :)
[00:47] <nhandler> Extbans are a new feature that came with ircd-seven. To quote http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml:
[00:47] <nhandler> "They take the form of: +b $type or +b $type:data
[00:47] <nhandler> 'type' is a single character (case insensitive) indicating the type of match, optionally preceded by a tilde (~) to negate the comparison."
[00:48] <nhandler> One of the most common uses of this type of ban is to replace the old +R channel mode which prevented unidentified users from talking in the channel.
[00:48] <nhandler> This can be done with: /mode #channel +q $~a
[00:49] <nhandler> Type 'a' matches the account name, and the ~ negates it. This command has the same result as setting channel mode +R used to have.
[00:49] <nhandler> Extbans can also be used to match the realname or gecos (type r, which is similar to the old +d channel mode) or to match against the full nick!username@host#gecos (type x)
[00:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:50] <nhandler> mhall119 wanted me to explain $~a a bit more
[00:51] <nhandler> Basically, $a is an extban that can be used to match people with a certain account name. For instance, You could set a ban on $a:nhandler* to ban all people with an account name beginning with nhandler
[00:51] <nhandler> The ~ negates that. So $~a:nhandler* could be used to ban everyone whose account name does not begin with nhandler
[00:52] <nhandler> $a with nothing after it is the same if I had used a wildcard
[00:53] <nhandler> $~a has the effect of matching all people not identified
[00:53] <nhandler> Examples of how to set these bans can be found on the freenode website: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
[00:53] <nhandler> That site also has a bit more information on what everything means
[00:54] <nhandler> Sometimes, you want a user to get forwarded to another channel when they attempt to join your channel.
[00:54] <nhandler> A common example of this is a user whose IRC client keeps quiting/joining, spamming the channel.
[00:55] <nhandler> You can append $#channel to the end of a ban to cause the user to get forwarded to #channel when they try and join your channel.
[00:55] <nhandler> You will need to either be an OP in #channel or the channel will need to have mode +F set in order to create this type of ban forward.
[00:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:55] <nhandler> An example of how to set this ban would be: /mode #mychannel +b $r:Foo*$#forwardtome
[00:56] <nhandler> This would prevent any user whose gecos begins with "Foo" (note the extban) from joining #mychannel.
[00:56] <nhandler> If they attempt to join #mychannel, they will get forwarded to #forwardtome
[00:56] <nhandler> Any questions?
[00:57] <erUSUL> why you use $r here ? can you explain that "type" ?
[00:58] <nhandler> erUSUL: $r matches on the realname field. So any users who had a real name that began with Foo in my example would be affected
[01:00] <mhall119> what is a "realname" in IRC?
[01:00] <mhall119> the ident?
[01:00] <nhandler> mhall119: Do a /whois on me. My real name is set to Nathan Handler
[01:01] <mhall119> ok, irssi is calling it "ircname"
[01:01] <pleia2> it calls it "real_name" in the settings
[01:01] <nhandler> Yep
[01:01] <pleia2> just to be confusing *pats irssi*
[01:03] <pleia2> for those of who who have their head spinning from nhandler's part - don't worry, this is advanced ban stuff that we covered to be thorough so you know they exist when you see them, I guarentee you that most of the ops out there don't know how to use them :)
[01:03] <pleia2> (like me, until now!)
[01:03] <stooj> Thank goodness :)
[01:03] <mhall119> that makes me feel better
[01:04] <nhandler> Yep. The only extban you will probably actually see/use would be $~a (to quiet unidentified users during a bot attack)
[01:05] <pleia2> any other questions?
[01:07] <pleia2> ok, well if anyone wants to test their new found skills, please feel free to nudge me and we'll hop over to ##pleia2 to play around
[01:07] <pleia2> we can kick and ban some stuff for sport! ;)
[01:08] <nigelb> haha, thanks for the class you folks :)
[01:08] <mhall119> yes, thanks pleia2 and nhandler
[01:08] <pleia2> thanks for coming, everyone
[01:08] <pleia2> we'll post the logs soon :)
[01:10] <stooj> Thanks pleia2 & nhandler
[01:11] <MichelleQ> braavo, pleia2 & nhandler
[01:11] <nhandler> :)
[01:13] <charlie-tca> Thanks very much
[19:52]  * jcastro taps on the microphone
[19:52] <jcastro> who's here for adopt-an-upstream in 10 minutes?
[19:54] <cjohnston> o/ mayb
[19:54] <cjohnston> e
[19:59] <jcastro> 1 more minute!
[19:59] <jcastro> anyone else around?
[20:00] <cjohnston> I guess it may be just you and me
[20:00] <cjohnston> your opped.. you dont get to see all the coolness that is ClassBot
[20:00] <jcastro> oh, should I unop?
[20:00] <cjohnston> doesnt matter.. ClassBot will voice you if you are not opped or voiced
[20:01] <cjohnston> but since your already opped and it already ran, prolly better to stay the way you are
[20:01] <jcastro> ah
[20:01] <jcastro> let's give it one more minute
[20:02] <jcastro> for the stragglers
[20:02] <cjohnston> want me to leave and come back in? :-P
[20:05] <jcastro> ok let's get started!
[20:05] <jcastro> anyone else here or just cjohnston supporting the cause?
[20:08] <jcastro> cjohnston: hmm, should we reschedule again?
[20:09] <cjohnston> jcastro: I don't know if you will get much of a better response without being in a UDW/ODW type setting
[20:09] <cjohnston> except maybe by doing some advertising
[20:10] <jcastro> yeah, I should have blogged about it
[20:10] <jcastro> what do you think about next week, but I can blog about it now?
[20:10] <jcastro> and ask some other people to blog it too?
[20:10] <cjohnston> sure
[20:11] <cjohnston> day/time?
[20:11] <jcastro> at least you were here. *hug*
[20:11] <jcastro> wednesday same time I think?
[20:11] <cjohnston> sure
[20:11] <cjohnston> rescheduling now
[20:11] <cjohnston> done
[20:12] <jcastro> bah I wouldn't be in this mess if I did it right the first time!
[20:13] <cjohnston> or the second time? :-P
[20:13] <jcastro> heh
[20:16] <cjohnston> maybe you should teach me something else then.. ;-)
[20:17] <jcastro> Well, first the earth cooled, and then the dinosaurs came ...
[20:17] <cjohnston> lol


[00:17] <udayan> help!!!!! wtf.....when i tried to upgrade to 10.10, it gave me an error
[00:17] <udayan> Error during commit
[00:17] <udayan> 'E:Couldn't configure pre-depend jre for openoffice.org-writer2latex, probably a dependency cycle.'
[00:17] <udayan> Restoring original system state
[00:17] <udayan> i was online for more than 4 hours and it has resulted in.......
[00:17] <udayan> completely nothing....!!!!!
[00:24] <kevin4942941> i don't know
[00:24] <kevin4942941> i can tell you what i would do
[00:24] <kevin4942941> udayan
[00:34] <udayan> ok
[01:05] <kevin4942941> dang, he didn't know about tab complete and i missed his message
[01:07] <MrChrisDruif> xD
[01:07] <MrChrisDruif> You can't have them all kevin4942941 :)
[01:07] <kevin4942941> gotta' catch 'em all!
[01:10] <MrChrisDruif> That made me laugh and cry at the same time :)
[06:06] <juzzy__> hi
[08:53] <bluesmaker> hello
[08:55] <bluesmaker> hello i need some help to setup a tv card, i'm a noob
[08:55] <bluesmaker> am i in the right place?
[08:59] <xardas008> bluesmaker, maybe you could also ask at #ubuntu, there are more people so the chances that someone is experienced with tv cards is even bigger than here (i don't have much experience though)
[09:00] <bluesmaker> ok, but i dont think it is a complicated thing
[09:00] <xardas008> depends on the type of card
[09:01] <bluesmaker> my tv card is listed as card=63 is  em28xx
[09:01] <xardas008> dvb-t for example can be used in kaffeine, maybe you can try xawtv?
[09:01] <bluesmaker> but i don't know how to make it card=63, it is now card=0
[09:03] <bluesmaker> it says "You may try to use card=<n> insmod option to workaround that." but i don't know how to do that
[09:09] <bluesmaker> xardas008: ok thanks
[09:09] <xardas008> bluesmaker, np
[09:21] <Mao> ？
[09:22] <xardas008> what's up Mao?
[09:31] <MaoDa> Yes , I know it ,but I am not that bad boy ever
[09:31] <MaoDa> I am a new comer
[09:36] <MaoDa> nothing
[11:04] <aztek> hi all
[11:04] <aztek> is it any program like macromedia in ubuntu?
[11:35] <duanedesign> hello mr_nst
[11:35] <duanedesign> mr_nst: which macromedia program?
[11:37] <mr_nst> flash
[11:38] <xardas008> there is a flashplugin available, alternativly you can use gnash
[11:38] <xardas008> but it's not as good as the flash plugin provided by adobe
[11:40] <mr_nst> what is the weakness?
[11:40] <sagaci> not fully functional
[11:41] <xardas008> on my dual core computer on full screen the videos jerk
[11:42] <mr_nst> hmm, other alternative?
[11:43] <xardas008> nothing on client side i think
[11:48] <duanedesign> mr_nst: the proprietary flash plugin for linux works pretty well
[11:48] <mr_nst> dualdesign: macromediaflas?
[11:49] <duanedesign> mr_nst: The first package i install on Ubuntu is ubuntu-restricted-extras
[11:49] <duanedesign> mr_nst:Adobe bought Macromedia
[11:49] <duanedesign> mr_nst: but yes
[11:49] <mr_nst> how to install it?
[11:49] <duanedesign> therre is an adobe flash plugin for linux
[11:50] <duanedesign> mr_nst: You can go to Software Add/Remove and search for ubuntu-restricted-extras. Or from the Terminal issue command :  sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[11:52] <duanedesign> mr_nst: that package has Flash, Java, packages for MP3 and DVD playback
[11:54] <mr_nst> dualdesign: it can't be installed through terminal in my pc
[11:55] <duanedesign> mr_nst: it can not? What does it say?
[11:55] <mr_nst> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[11:55] <mr_nst> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[11:56] <duanedesign> mr_nst: ok, you have another package manager open
[11:56] <duanedesign> mr_nst: is Software Center open?
[11:56] <mr_nst> no
[11:56] <duanedesign> Synaptic Package Manager?
[11:57] <duanedesign> another Terminal installing software?
[11:57] <mr_nst> no
[11:57] <mr_nst> may be i need restart my pc
[11:59] <duanedesign> mr_nst: have you installed any software recently?
[12:00] <mr_nst> yes
[12:01] <duanedesign> mr_nst: how did you install it?
[12:01] <duanedesign> the terminal or software center
[12:02] <mr_nst> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras
[12:02] <mr_nst> interminal
[12:02] <mr_nst> *in terminal
[12:03] <duanedesign> ok
[12:04] <duanedesign> That error happens when Software Center or another package update / installation application is already running.
[12:05] <mr_nst> ok, amn going to restarting my pc. i will back soon..
[12:05] <duanedesign> mr_nst: you can try and kill
[12:05] <duanedesign> ugh
[12:24] <duanedesign> wb aztek
[12:25] <duanedesign> aztek: can you run install the package now?
[12:28] <aztek> yup
[12:29] <aztek> but need long time...
[12:53] <aztek>  duanedesign: my internes is very slow...
[13:45] <s-fox> Hello.
[15:14] <Kumm> Hi! I've just installed Ubuntu and am having problems with playing sounds.
[15:14] <Kumm> I can play sounds for about half a minute or so and then it mutes.
[15:14] <Kumm> As soon as I unmute it, it mutes itself again.
[15:14] <Kumm> It doesn't matter whether I use Rhythmbox or VLC.
[15:16] <Kumm> It works perfectly on my Windows 7 install.
[15:20] <Kumm> However, YouTube appears to be working.
[15:22] <Kumm> Nope, there it muted, just took longer than usual.
[16:18] <xardas008> is it possible to run ubuntu 10.10 and 11.04 beside on the same hard drive?
[16:20] <charlie-tca> yes, as long as you don't want to run them at the exact same time
[16:20] <charlie-tca> you can install one, then do a guided re-size to install the other one
[16:20] <xardas008> guided resize?
[16:21] <charlie-tca> yup, automatically resizes the partition and creates a new one.
[16:22] <charlie-tca> You can also partition manually to create two partitions for the two installs
[16:31] <xardas008> ok wish me luck that everything will work without data loss xD (made a backup before so not so bad if it breaks my system)
[16:32] <charlie-tca> Good luck
[16:54] <xardas008> what the hell is jockey-backend?
[16:54] <xardas008> hm ok program exited so update manager can reload sources xD
[16:55] <xardas008> installation worked fine, everything works (ubuntu 10.10 as well as 11.04)
[16:56] <charlie-tca> It is the thing that installs the hardware drivers
[16:56] <xardas008> ah ok
[16:56] <charlie-tca> Great job! glad it all worked
[16:58] <xardas008> the installer is really nice, he found out that ubuntu 10.10 was already installed and made the proposition to do a side by side installation
[16:58] <xardas008> everything i needed to do was clicking on next
[16:58] <xardas008> and answering some dialogs as usual
[16:59] <johnny77> Will any window Manager run without a DE?
[17:00] <xardas008> de = desktop environment?
[17:01] <johnny77> yes.
[17:01] <charlie-tca> huh?
[17:01] <charlie-tca> windows manager requires gui, in most cases
[17:01] <charlie-tca> DE = GUI
[17:06] <johnny77> charlie-tca: I know Openbox and fluxbox can be ran without desktop environments. If I wanted to look for other similar Window Managers, how would I know if the WM required a Desktop Environment?
[17:08] <charlie-tca> try it, I guess. Maybe they will work. Xubuntu uses xfwm4, which should work, but probably requires a lot of effort
[17:08] <charlie-tca> gnome uses something, that I don't think does wir
[17:08] <charlie-tca> work without the de
[17:27] <xardas008> where can i open a request for a special package?
[17:30] <bdfhjk> ?
[17:30] <bdfhjk> What special package? :-)
[17:31] <xardas008> eclipse
[17:31] <johnny77> I've just encountered another prime opportunity to learn <- That means I screwed up. :)
[17:31] <xardas008> latest stable is version 3.6.2, version in natty is 3.5.2
[17:32] <bdfhjk> latest from debian?
[17:32] <bdfhjk> I think You should ask at #ubuntu-devel
[17:32] <johnny77> I installed a Command Line Interface and install fluxbox. I just now installed Openbox, but when I run startx, what used to get me into Fluxbox now jut gives me a blank screen with a cursor.
[17:34] <xardas008> ok version in debian is also 3.5.2
[17:34] <bdfhjk> hm...
[17:34] <bdfhjk> maybe this is a package problem
[17:34] <xardas008> hm i don't know
[17:34] <bdfhjk> but I don't know too
[17:36] <johnny77> Ok, silly me. Openbox is the blank screen. But now that I have fluxbox and openbox how do I choose between the two?
[17:43] <okuth0r> is there anyone here who can help with a install?
[17:46] <okuth0r> i have a machine with SLi setup and am having trouble installing ubuntu
[17:54] <johnny77> okuth0r: Sorry, but I can't help. I'm pretty new myself. I recommend hanging around for a bit. There are a lot of very smart people that hang here. Also you can try #ubuntu.
[18:03] <johnny77> Is there a way to install a session manager without a login manager?
[18:04] <bioterror> what
[18:05] <bioterror> what's session manager?
[18:07] <johnny77> bioterror: maybe I'm using the wrong words. I've installed a CLI and installed Openbox, Fluxbox, but don't have a way to choose which to load when I run startx.
[18:08] <johnny77> I like the command line login, but want a way to choose which to WM to load.
[18:09] <xardas008> johnny77, you start with startx?
[18:11] <johnny77> xardas008: Yes, maybe that is wrong way. Like I said I install a Command Line Interface from the Alternative CD. After installing that I installed fluxbox. Startx just loaded Fluxbox. But now I have other options.
[18:12] <xardas008> in fluxbox?
[18:13] <johnny77> No, when I boot my computer it loads into a command line. Then from that command line (terminal) I run startx to load fluxbox.
[18:13] <xardas008> and now you want to use an other one?
[18:14] <johnny77> I want to be able to choose which one I want to load.
[18:14] <xardas008> you can do it manually with the ~/.xinitrc
[18:15] <xardas008> and interactiv way maybe only if you write a script
[18:17] <johnny77> xardas008: I know on my other computer, I can choose from the graphical Login manager. I was hoping there was something I could install that would give me the choose without having to install a graphical login manager.
[18:23] <bioterror> echo "exec fluxbox" > .xinitrc && startx
[20:45] <johnny77> is there a way to not load the login manager when booting?
[20:49] <yofel> sure, disable the init service
[20:49] <yofel> sudo mv /etc/init/gdm.conf /etc/init/gdm.conf.disabled
[20:49] <yofel> if you're using gdm
[20:49] <yofel> natty will have a saner way to do that...
[20:51] <johnny77> yofel: well, my problem is I was trying to configure my login manager and I guess I messed it up. Now it says Login failed whenever I try.
[20:51] <yofel> can't help there I fear...
[20:51] <yofel> maybe purging and reinstalling gdm could help
[20:52] <johnny77> but I can't get to a command line to do anythign.
[20:52] <yofel> ctrl+alt+f2 doesn't get you a terminal?
[20:54] <johnny77> thank you. didn't know I could do that!!
[20:54] <johnny77> that is exactly what I needed!
[20:55] <yofel> ah, there are always 6 TTYs started on F1-F6 in case you need them
[21:08] <xardas008> + f7 for the desktop environment
[21:08] <xardas008> so you have 7 ttys
[21:48] <kristian-aalborg> hi
[21:49] <kristian-aalborg> I'd like to have a text file which displays all of my figlet fonts and their name - how do I do that?
[21:49] <kristian-aalborg> lol, I found it
[22:50] <wolfik> hi
[22:53] <wolfik>  i teach in gymnasium and i have 18 computers i try use oneconf but it don't work in ubuntu 10.10 if this work just in 11.04?
[22:55] <holstein> wolfik: looks like a cool project
[22:56] <holstein> wolfik: what are your goals for using oneconf?
[22:56] <holstein> what do you mean by 'didnt work' ?
[22:56] <holstein> didnt install?
[22:56] <holstein> what failed?
[22:58] <wolfik> i want quick synchronize all programs on all computer in lab
[22:59] <wolfik> i install one conf and mark share computer and and show inventories but only one computer show synchronize at 7:00 pm
[23:00] <wolfik> but no program are installed
[23:00] <holstein> wolfik: thats going to be challenging to sort out
[23:00] <holstein> ive never used it
[23:00] <holstein> and havent heard anyone talking about it here
[23:00] <holstein> hang out and see if someone comes along
[23:00] <holstein> but, does the project itself have an IRC channel?
[23:00] <holstein> or mailinglist?
[23:01] <wolfik> i don't check :(
[23:02] <wolfik> ubuntuone is i try this
[23:02] <wolfik> thx
[23:02] <wolfik> did anybody know any programs to synchronize aplication to many computers in this same network?
[23:03] <holstein> ive only ever done it manually in synaptic
[23:03] <holstein> with a couple machines
[23:03] <holstein> *im sure theres a way though
[23:05] <wolfik> couple machines??
[23:05] <holstein> yeah
[23:05] <holstein> like 2 installs
[23:05] <holstein> maybe 3
[23:05] <holstein> not the large deployment you are going for
[23:06] <MrChrisDruif> holstein: what about LandScape? Wasn't that for situations like this?
[23:06]  * holstein shrugs
[23:06] <holstein> !landscape
[23:06] <ubot2> Landscape makes the management and monitoring of Ubuntu systems simple and effective by combining world-class support with easy to use online management tools. https://landscape.canonical.com/
[23:06] <holstein> MrChrisDruif: is that a server thing?
[23:06] <holstein> anyways, give that a look wolfik ^
[23:07] <wolfik> ok i think oneconf is the best because ubuntu peoples made it but maybe its wrong :)
[23:07] <MrChrisDruif> holstein: I don't know if it is operable from server (CLI) but I guess it should be possible :)
[23:07] <MrChrisDruif> wolfik: So is landscape if I'm not mistaken :)
[23:14] <wolfik> landscape isn't free ??
[23:14] <holstein> in what way?
[23:16] <wolfik> i read that is commercial product that right?
[23:17] <MrChrisDruif> wolfik: Isn't it a one buy program? No licenses right?
[23:17] <holstein> http://serverfault.com/questions/143549/open-source-alternative-for-canonical-landscape
[23:18] <MrChrisDruif> You can try it for free I see...and maybe the link from holstein might give free results
[23:18] <wolfik> my school is very poor, free program is oneconf but don't work :)
[23:18] <MrChrisDruif> Puppet is mentioned in the link from holstein
[23:19] <wolfik> but it doesn't work on Ubuntu << :(
[23:19] <MrChrisDruif> I've never heard of it thou
[23:19] <MrChrisDruif> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_(software)
[23:19] <wolfik> https://launchpad.net/oneconf
[23:20] <holstein> wolfik: did you try it with lucid?
[23:20] <holstein> i usually prefer going with the LTS's in those cases
[23:21] <wolfik> no maverick 10.10
[23:26] <denneme> hello all, I'm getting an error saying that the disk drive for /home is not ready yet or not present. therefore i can not login to my desktop
[23:27] <denneme> i have an lvm setup with encrypted /home partition
[23:27] <denneme> checked the /etc/fstab everythings look normal
[23:27] <denneme> any idea why this is happening?


[12:02] <l3on> mdke: are you there?
[12:02] <mdke> l3on: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[16:27] <jjesse> good morning, trying to do a checkout of the interprid branch using a fresh install of bzr on my windows box and receiving the following error
[16:28] <jjesse> bzr: ERROR: Repository KnitPackRepository('file:///C:/Users/Jonathan/Documents/U
[16:28] <jjesse> buntu/kubuntu-intrepid/.bzr/repository/') is not compatible with repository Remo
[16:28] <jjesse><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:28] <jjesse> any idea
[16:28] <jjesse> especially why it would be look at edubuntu-core?
[23:10] <DrGash> Hi, i'd like to make an edit to the Santa Rosa Macbook Pro section of the Community docs.  Is there anyone I need to run the changes by before I start altering the page?
[23:18] <nickellery> DrGash, nope, you can go right ahead and edit it
[23:19] <DrGash> OK, great, thanks.