[06:55] <popey> morning
[07:04] <gebbione> anyone has an idea when ubuntu will be able to manage an iphone4?
[07:05] <AlanBell> does it not present itself as a disk?
[07:05] <gebbione> sure, how do i put music on it
[07:07] <gebbione> i tried gtkpod and other things but none work
[07:07] <awilkins> Blame Apple for making their music storage scheme deliberately obfuscated ... I believe there are some applications which support updating the iTunes dB on the phone but I have no personal experience with them.
[07:09] <gebbione> the thing is that all other devices can be synched with gtkpod but iphone4 or 4s
[07:10] <AlanBell> I guess this is all part of apple wanting you to buy into the whole lifestyle
[07:10] <jussi> gebbione: and rhythm box doesnt do it?
[07:10] <gebbione> i have an apple and pc... i just want to manage it from this ubuntu machine though !!! GRRRR!
[07:11] <popey> gebbione, yeah, known issue.. http://www.libimobiledevice.org/ is the tool we use
[07:11] <AlanBell> GRR at Appple
[07:11] <awilkins> Yeah, they probably noticed that gtkpod worked on iPhone 1-3 and said "OOh, no, freedom from Apple software, can't have that.."
[07:12] <gebbione> popey, that is the one that works underneeth gtkpod right?
[07:12] <popey> not sure what gtkpod uses
[07:12] <popey> libimobiledevice is what rb uses AIUI
[07:12] <awilkins> I just buy music players from makers that "get it" like Samsung : nice audio quality and supports ogg (most of my music is ogg anyway)
[07:12] <popey> interestingly they recently did a recall of the old ipod nano which they claimed had battery issues. and replaced them with the new nano which requires itunes (the old one worked with RB)
[07:13] <popey> what's notable is that a number of people who got the recall notice had never plugged their nano into itunes..
[07:14] <popey> awilkins, i dont think it's a case of samsung "getting" it at all.
[07:14] <awilkins> Just "hey, free feature"?
[07:16] <popey> just that they happen to use a chip that supports those things
[07:16] <awilkins> I've had iRiver players too
[07:16] <gebbione> btw i have libimobiledevice installed
[07:17] <gebbione> i can see the iphone on rythmbox
[07:17] <awilkins> Well, still have one
[07:17] <gebbione> not edit though
[07:19] <gebbione> jussi, do you edit (upload & delete) your iphone music with rythmbox?
[07:19] <jussi> gebbione: I dont do anything with my iphone because I thankfully dont own one of those rubbish things
[07:20] <popey> jussi, useful input there
[07:21] <popey> awilkins, i still have my iRiver iHP-140 next to my bed - I use it most nights :)
[07:21] <jussi> popey: I answered the question directly.
[07:22] <awilkins> iRiver T20 is my workout player - shame it's only 1GB. AAA battery, plays ogg, no stupid protocols, good sound quality.
[07:23] <jzen> hi I screwed up my display manager, I think, Im in a liveCD now, can someone help?
[07:25] <awilkins> Isn't that one of thos "Delete your .XAuthority file" problems?
[07:26] <jzen> ?
[07:28] <gigix> jzen, what did you do before "screwing up" your DM ?
[07:29] <jzen> gigix: purge then (re)install gdm, selected lightdm per 'newrez's (a xrandr scaling script/app) instructions
[07:33] <gigix> jzen, what did you try to do ? any reason you wanted gdm over lightdm ?
[07:35] <jzen> gigix: my laptops limited to 1280X768 resolution, so I was trying to use newrez, an xrandr app/script to scale down from a higher virtual resolution
[07:37] <jzen> gigix: the install of gdm was a little rough and I had to force dpkg to overwrite some files when apt-get complained
[07:39] <gigix> ok, maybe i'd try to switch back to lightdm first ?
[07:39] <awilkins> >-<  There's a reason package managers comprise a massive database of what's compatible with other things.
[07:39] <gigix> with a "sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm"
[07:42] <jzen> gigix: unless theres an easy way to run that from the liveCD, i will be rebooting while crossing fingers.
[07:44] <jzen> awilkins: copy&paste it for me next time, I'm living on the edge- paper cuts and all.
[07:44] <jzen> thanks guys, wish me luck.
[07:44] <gigix> jzen, I am not sure you can chroot your environment to do this or if you need to boot in rescue mode
[07:45] <gigix> I would start booting in rescue mode
[07:45] <gigix> you just need the command line for that anyway
[07:46] <jzen> ok. thanx. *poof*
[08:17] <bigcalm> Good Monday morning peeps :)
[08:20] <dwatkins> hiya
[08:25] <bigcalm> What's the difference between a VM and a VPS?
[08:26] <Joeboy> I guess a VPS is a VM that you rent from somebody else
[08:26] <Joeboy> for use as a server
[08:26] <bigcalm> I have a VM with Bytemark. Whom I pay monthly for
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> Me too!
[08:26] <bigcalm> So is that a VPS?
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> it is
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> virtual machine / virtual private server
[08:27] <bigcalm> I see
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> private as in "not shared" -- you're root on your vm
[08:27] <bigcalm> Does it sound cooler to say you have a VPS rather than a VM?
[08:27] <KrimZon_2> VPS is a full TLA
[08:28] <bigcalm> Heh, there is that
[08:28] <bigcalm> VM is also a TLA ;)
[08:28] <KrimZon_2> I didn't think of that
[08:28] <bigcalm> Just a different value of T
[08:28] <KrimZon_2> VPS is a TLA, but VM is only a TLA
[08:30] <Joeboy> VPS is more specific than VM
[08:30] <Joeboy> a VM might just be a Windows VM you're using on your desktop to run photoshop
[08:30] <Joeboy> which would not be a VPS
[08:33] <diplo> Morning all
[08:39] <KrimZon_2> VPS is a TLA where TLA is a TLA, but VM is a TLA where TLA is not a TLA
[08:42] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[08:48] <Joeboy> Morning JamesTait
[09:06] <diplo> Anyone here use Geany on a day to day basis ?
[09:11] <gord> i have done in the past
[09:12] <diplo> Just wondering whether anyone uses the vcs plugin
[09:12] <diplo> Doesn't seem to work how I would expect, just wondering what others recommend..
[09:12] <diplo> What do you use gord  ? If you don't mind me asking.. all cli ?
[09:13] <gord> i use vim
[09:14] <gord> have been thinking about trying out sublime lately though
[09:14] <diplo> heh, I knew that was coming. I do for a lot of things but don't seem to use it that well in big projects
[09:14] <diplo> yeah just grabbed that myself
[09:14] <diplo> Also Komodo Edit
[09:14] <diplo> and a few others
[09:16] <gord> tbh i wouldn't recommend geany over simple file editing
[09:16] <diplo> I think I've seen davmor mention it a few times so was going to give it a go
[09:17] <gord> Komodo is the best python editor i ever used, not the free version, the paid for version
[09:17] <gord> the free was kind of weak, but i haven't tried either in 3+ years
[09:17] <diplo> Never bothered with the paid, but I only used to use it for php which was fine
[09:17] <diplo> I do like it
[09:18] <diplo> Thing I miss from Netbeans is projects
[09:18] <diplo> But it's too much of a hog for this machine
[09:20] <gord> i've never actually had an IDE handle projects nicely, always ended up having to not use them
[09:20] <gord> either they want to use their own build system, completely not working with your build system, or they have a crappy import system that means you can't create lots of branches
[09:23] <diplo> Will give Netbeans another go today
[09:23] <diplo> Then Komodo this afternoon
[09:53] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:54] <gigix> morning
[09:56] <brobostigon> morning gigix
[10:04] <davmor2> morning all
[10:04] <dogmatic69> o/
[10:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: did you get the update to ics yet?
[10:37]  * AlanBell upgraded to cyanogenmod 9
[10:37]  * dwatkins waits patiently for CM9 to be supported on the HTC Desire HD
[10:37]  * gord is still using android 2.1
[10:38]  * diplo eagerly awaits getting a phone that he can afford that could actually run a newer release
[10:38] <diplo> :)
[10:38] <ali1234> i like how you can unlock directly to camera
[10:38]  * davmor2 is still on 2.2 and will never be able to update till there is a phone upgrade in my life
[10:38] <ali1234> i don't like the default calendar and email widgets though
[10:38] <ali1234> they should be 4 wide
[10:38] <directhex> anything other than android 2.3 is a statistical anomaly
[10:40] <directhex> and that's straight from the horse's mouth. ICS accounts for 7% of android. http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html
[10:41] <Myrtti> Galaxy Nexus ♥
[10:41] <ali1234> that's still probably more than the total sales of WP7
[10:41] <directhex> yes.
[10:42] <directhex> but, e.g., nokia make more money from ios patent licenses than from lumia sales
[10:45] <diplo> I'd like to tinker with a WP7 device, don't know anyone local to me that has one though
[10:45] <diplo> :/
[10:45] <davmor2> directhex: yeah that's the problem everyone is suing everyone rather than just making the best devices they can, cause they get more money that way
[10:46] <directhex> davmor2, http://dilbert.com/2012-06-30/
[10:49] <diplo> Are you still liking your WP7 phone directhex ?
[10:49] <directhex> diplo, yeah. very cross about the WP7.8/WP8 situation, but it's still much nicer than android
[10:50] <diplo> yeah read about that the other day, that really does suck
[10:50] <davmor2> directhex: indeed
[11:35]  * czajkowski hugs christel
[11:36]  * christel hugs czajkowski
[11:37]  * davmor2 blows raspberries at czajkowski and waves hello to christel
[11:38] <christel> hehe
[11:38] <christel> heya davmor2 :)
[11:38]  * AlanBell wonders if christel will pop by on her tour of farnham
[11:38] <christel> ooh i might very well do!
[11:38] <christel> give me your address
[11:38] <christel> (for the office)
[11:38] <AlanBell> Libertus Solutions, suite 3 the Granary, Hones yard
[11:38] <christel> we have viewings at 1, 2 and 3 (last one is in farnham, riverside) however i suspect they'll only take like 15mins each :)
[11:38] <AlanBell> behind the sugarcraft place next to the station
[11:39] <christel> awesome! i shall pop in before or after viewing riverside! possibly after, i'll bring cake!
[11:39] <christel> <3
[11:39] <AlanBell> gosh :)
[11:39] <davmor2> czajkowski: where up are you with the sun?
[11:39]  * AlanBell 3> cake
[11:40] <AlanBell> um, that failed
[11:40] <AlanBell> <3
[11:45] <diplo> christel: Tap fixed?
[11:50] <czajkowski> davmor2: London
[11:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: that's not up
[11:51] <czajkowski> it's up from where popey is
[11:51] <davmor2> czajkowski: that's down and across :P
[11:51]  * czajkowski peers at davmor2
[11:57]  * bigcalm returns
[11:58] <bigcalm> South is down
[12:00] <bigcalm> I don't like the noise my Proliant is making :(
[12:00] <bigcalm> Sounds like a fan is off balance or something
[12:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: only on boot up though right? I don't here my fan the rest of the time
[12:04] <bigcalm> davmor2: this is all the time. It's hard to describe. I'll try and record it
[12:05] <gord> my fan was making a weird noise this morning, turns out a cable was caught in it, another technical computer problem successfully solved by gord!
[12:07] <diplo> Really must check mine out, not seen or heard from it for like 4 months
[12:08] <diplo> Its in the kids play room, always forget to check whether the kids have poked things through the fans etc
[12:08] <diplo> :)
[12:25] <dwatkins> get them a Raspberry Pi so there are no moving parts, diplo ;)
[12:26] <diplo> heh, it's my fileserver.. their play room used to be my office
[12:26] <diplo> Only thing I haven't moved out of there is my server
[12:29] <bigcalm> What's this noise coming from my Proliant? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1151681/Voice%20004.3ga
[12:30] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: the rattle?
[12:30] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: yes
[12:30] <dogmatic69> sounds like a fan on the way out
[12:31] <bigcalm> Not had the box for long. Don't really want to send it back to HP for fixing
[12:31] <dogmatic69> Tell them to send out a tech guy. if it is a fan they should be hot swappable
[12:32] <bigcalm> Ug
[12:32] <diplo> Unplug the fan if not CPU and see if it's defo that
[12:33] <bigcalm> The only fan is the case fan :)
[12:33] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: what proliant is it?
[12:35] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: 401 I think
[12:35] <bigcalm> Cannie remember now :D
[12:36] <dogmatic69> but a blade right?
[12:40] <bigcalm> I honestly can't remember the model. It's: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/219721595760017408
[12:40] <bigcalm> Maybe N40L
[12:40] <Dave2> bigcalm: liar
[12:40] <Dave2> case fan and PSU fan
[12:41] <bigcalm> Dave2: no CPU fan is what I meant
[12:41] <bigcalm> Dave2: only seen one fan so far, shows how much I've poked it
[12:42] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: ah ok, did not know those existed. just stick your finger in the fan and see if the noise stops
[12:42] <bigcalm> Haha
[12:42] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: I may laugh, but I had considered it
[12:43] <diplo> bigcalm: It's ok to do that for a short few secs :)
[12:43] <dogmatic69> put it in the middle, hurts less :D
[12:43] <bigcalm> ;)
[12:43] <diplo> I've done it many a time to see if its the fan
[12:43] <dogmatic69> ye, it will draw loads of current if done for too long
[12:45] <bigcalm> Can't really get to any of the fans
[12:50] <Dave2> You can get to the fans pretty easily, you just need to take stuff out
[12:50] <Dave2> Well
[12:50] <Dave2> To the main fan
[12:50] <bigcalm> Dave2: if I take stuff out, it won't be switched on
[12:50] <Dave2> pft
[12:51] <bigcalm> The point is to find the source of noise while it's running
[12:51] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: just use a pencil or similar
[12:56] <bigcalm> diplo: was it you who has CM on a Wildfire?
[12:58] <diplo> Yep
[12:58] <bigcalm> diplo: great. How did you root the phone?
[12:58] <diplo> Didn't upgrade at the weekend, been in agony since Thursday :/
[12:58] <diplo> With a fair bit of work I'm afraid
[12:59] <bigcalm> That's what I'm finding
[12:59] <diplo> So the biggest issue was the hboot
[12:59] <diplo> From memory, I had v1.2, and to root I needed 1.1
[12:59] <diplo> So I had to downgrade the hboot
[12:59] <diplo> Is that your issue ?
[12:59] <bigcalm> I'm not sure, but that might be something for me to look at
[13:00] <diplo> I can see if I can find the tutorial I followed ?
[13:00] <bigcalm> Thanks
[13:01] <diplo> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1145035
[13:01] <diplo> Looks like the one
[13:01] <bigcalm> Grumble. All done via Windows?
[13:02] <diplo> I may have done actually yeah, was dual booting my home laptop at the time
[13:02] <bigcalm> Fair enough
[13:02] <diplo> the bat files aren't doing anything special from memory
[13:02] <diplo> Can probably work around it
[13:03] <diplo> Do you have a windows PC at home?
[13:03] <bigcalm> Yay, HBOOT is already HBOOT-1.01.0001 on Hayley's phone
[13:03] <diplo> That makes life A LOT easier :)
[13:03] <bigcalm> Hayley's is windows. Could hijack that I guess
[13:03] <diplo> That was my biggest issue tbh, getting a solution that actually worked
[13:04] <bigcalm> I tried revolutionary, but it just sat there waiting to see a device
[13:04] <bigcalm> Revoke3 saw the device and did a lot until it complained about the firmware being too new
[13:05] <bigcalm> But I think I'll have enough here to get it working tonight
[13:05] <bigcalm> Thanks diplo :)
[13:06] <diplo> Well should be online later, not sure how much help I will be bt more than willing to give it a go
[13:07] <diplo> Might upgrade mine tonight actually
[13:07] <bigcalm> :)
[13:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: that sounds to me like the fan isn't slowing down
[13:09] <bigcalm> Eh?
[13:10] <diplo> Sounds like dodgey bearings to me
[13:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: sorry playing catchup from earlier lunch and all that :P
[13:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: What I'm saying is it sounds like your fan is going full pelt are you doing something like raid work or something that would be cpu/hd heavy load that might explain the upped fan speed
[13:13] <bigcalm> davmor2: I have RAID1 on the 1st two drives. But not doing anything intensive as far as I know
[13:18]  * bigcalm fires of s05e07 - slowly catching up
[13:29] <gord> still no planes on popey cam :(
[13:31] <davmor2> gord: clouds in the way
[13:32] <bigcalm> The time lapse is cool
[13:32] <gord> davmor2: i was *promised* blames
[13:32] <gord> planes
[13:32] <gord> but i blames popey
[13:33] <davmor2> gord: no I think you were right the first time, look at how much popey has allowed you to blame :D
[13:51] <popey> A PLANE!
[13:51] <gord> lies!
[14:04] <diplo> davmor2: I have the film if you want to watch it :)
[14:05] <diplo> Haven't brought myself to watch it yet mind :)
[14:34] <diplo> http://www.rt.com/news/iran-bill-hormuz-strait-218/
[14:34] <diplo> ooer
[14:35]  * diplo digs push bike out ready for the fuel price rises again :(
[14:35] <diplo> And waterproofs
[14:42]  * bigcalm tickles popey
[14:43] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Akademy 2012 in Pictures - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4583
[14:47] <bigcalm> Who here is fabulous with Doctine? :)
[14:50] <diplo> PHP libraries ?
[14:50]  * bigcalm moves on to s05e08
[14:50] <bigcalm> diplo: indeed
[14:51] <bigcalm> It's one of the 2 popular ORMs that Symfony can use
[14:51] <diplo> Nope, afraid not.. just wanted to confirm
[14:51] <bigcalm> I want to turn a SQL query into a proper Doctrine statement :)
[14:51] <diplo> Having issues ?
[14:52] <bigcalm> I can safely paste this without braking any NDAs
[14:52] <bigcalm> SELECT api.name, source.name, source.country_code FROM source JOIN api ON source.api_id = api.id WHERE api.is_active = 1 AND source.is_active = 1;
[14:54] <diplo> Well it's not very revealing :)
[14:54] <diplo> just looking at their site now
[14:54] <bigcalm> Me too
[14:54] <bigcalm> Oh, it's also Doctrine 1.2 not 2
[14:55] <bigcalm> Or is it
[14:55]  * bigcalm scratches his head
[14:55] <bigcalm> 2.1
[14:55] <bigcalm> Silly me
[14:55] <Songtao> hi guys, I m stuck now
[14:55] <Bollinger> when looking at the output of top on the Mem line reads Mem: 8G  total, 5.6G used 2.5G free 316M buffers Yet when I add up all the memory used in the RES column it is no where near 5.6G what am I missing?
[14:56] <Songtao> I untar an existing system to a new drive, and changed uuid in /etc/fstab file, now the system won't boot up
[14:56] <diplo> Bollinger: should be a cached field as well
[14:57] <diplo> Linux gobbles up all the memory and frees it if something else requires it
[14:58] <dogmatic69> Bollinger: 'free memory' is wasted memory
[14:58] <diplo> http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
[14:58] <diplo> :)
[14:58] <Bollinger> diplo, ahh!  many thanks ;-)
[14:58] <diplo> Much better than I can explain it
[14:59] <Bollinger> ah so 4.8G cache is where all my memory went. I was thinking I needed to buy some more RAM.
[14:59] <dogmatic69> Bollinger: exactly :)
[15:00] <dogmatic69> its like windows prefetch, except it works
[15:07] <AlanBell> buzz
[15:07] <bigcalm> Busy bee?
[15:09] <davmor2> AlanBell: you don't want to keep touching that cable if it's making buzzing noises, it'll likely go bang! next if you do :D
[15:13]  * bigcalm points popey to the correct email address :P
[15:13] <popey> :D
[15:13]  * popey edits his address book
[15:13] <popey> that sounds so retro
[15:13] <bigcalm> Doesn't it just?
[15:15] <gord> i don't think anyone has ever managed to send me an email, without sending it to gordallot first
[15:24]  * AlanBell has a christel here
[15:24] <AlanBell> and cake
[15:24] <bigcalm> CAKE!
[15:27]  * Seeker` imagines popey running around with his arms out like wings
[15:27] <popey> yes
[15:34] <mattt> speaking of buzzing noises
[15:34]  * mattt zzZzzZzZz
[15:36] <davmor2> AlanBell: no fair I want a Cakestel
[15:38] <davmor2> popey: but you are retro by the way Crocket says can he have his shirt back the bad weather is hitting miami soon ;)
[15:39] <popey> i think davmor2 is stuck in the 1980's
[15:39] <popey> not just music, but TV too!
[15:40] <bigcalm> I fully agree
[15:41] <davmor2> popey: No tv I watch all sorts, music too, I just prefer the 80's music.  But there is a new Miami Vice so :P
[15:41] <davmor2> popey: admittedly I've never seen it :D
[15:41] <davmor2> but I know of it
[15:54] <bigcalm> Car parked over the road has a number plate ending in NTL. That made me do a double take. They have scared me for life
[15:58] <davmor2> bigcalm: so after a weekend of using my super hub in modem only mode I have to report it hasn't dropped once, it's not been perfect either but it has at least been up hurah :)
[16:00] <bigcalm> \o/
[16:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: also I managed to watch the Google keynote, and it was said that jellybean would be rolled out to the xoom in mid-july, I will of course only believe this when it happens
[16:00] <bigcalm> davmor2: to the US maybe
[16:00] <bigcalm> davmor2: they have had ICS for some time now
[16:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: there were talking about the fact that it was world wide and when could the world get it so we will see, but I'm with you, expect it in the uk when 6.4 is released in the US :)
[16:01] <bigcalm> :)
[16:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: Have you checked your Xoom today?
[16:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: nope
[16:02] <bigcalm> Me neither
[16:02] <bigcalm> Silly work getting in the way
[16:03] <Azelphur> Anyone clever care to help me with wine? I'm getting X Error when I try and start anything under wine. #winehq said it's because my libgl 32 version is not the same as my kernel module version, don't know how to check or fix :(
[16:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: indeed I'm sure work is there only to replace fun :D
[16:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: that or it's there to make you appreciate the fun all the more
[16:05] <davmor2> czajkowski: Prod
[16:05] <bigcalm> davmor2: possibly the latter
[16:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: see I really appreciated that
[16:06] <czajkowski> davmor2: lo
[16:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: sorry I was just appreciating fun :)
[16:07] <bigcalm> Heh
[16:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: Wanna Cookie?
[16:22] <christel> AlanBell: thank you for le coffee! <3
[16:23] <davmor2> christel: You can't show that kinda favouritism I think we should all have Cakestel visit ;)
[16:29] <christel> hehe
[16:31] <bigcalm> I need a tea fairy
[16:31] <Myrtti> hmmm
[16:31] <Myrtti> very offtopic but relevant to uk
[16:32] <bigcalm> Tea?
[16:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
[16:32] <Myrtti> I was going to ask if people have any experience on prepaid credit cards and if they could recommend one
[16:32] <bigcalm> Not I
[16:32] <davmor2> Myrtti: The virgin money one is meant to be good
[16:33] <dogmatic69> Myrtti: pre-paid sort of goes against the idea of credit?
[16:33] <davmor2> Myrtti: we have one but it is my wifes from unison which you wouldn't be able to get I guess.
[16:34] <davmor2> Myrtti: most just topup at paypoints or payzones and then you use as normal
[16:34] <Myrtti> dogmatic69: pedantics aside, it's a great way of giving money, or using it to do internet purchases from places you'd not want to risk your own card for
[16:34] <dogmatic69> I see
[16:34] <Myrtti> or in my case, getting *free* as in beer but not free as in speech books from Google Play bookstore, which for some stupid reason require a UK credit card even if the book is gratis
[16:35] <dogmatic69> I had something like that, but for travel.. they dont do 'travellers cheques' much more
[16:36] <dogmatic69> Myrtti: you in the UK right?
[16:37] <Myrtti> in USA they're quite common, in Finland unheard of
[17:18] <AlanBell> christel: thank you for the yummy cake :)
[17:19] <christel> :D
[17:20] <davmor2> AlanBell: you rub in the Cakestel visit again and I'll cry
[17:20] <AlanBell> davmor2: it was an exceptionally good cake
[17:21] <davmor2> :'(
[17:21]  * AlanBell hugs davmor2
[17:22]  * AlanBell looks forward to Beer traing and BBQ this month
[17:27] <mattt> AlanBell: what day's your bbq again ?
[17:28] <bigcalm> 2 weekend after the RAT
[17:29]  * kvarley is puzzled at hardware
[17:29] <kvarley> Just been told that I can plug in a 20pin picoPSU into a 24pin motherboard and it will work so long as the additional 4pin 12v connector is plugged in.
[17:29] <mattt> bigcalm: ah, thought i missed it
[17:31] <AlanBell> mattt: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
[17:36] <mattt> AlanBell: thanks, just registered as a maybe
[17:37] <AlanBell> yay
[17:57]  * TheOpenSourcerer hopes AlanBell didn't eat all of christel 's yummy cake...
[18:00] <Myrtti> EAT ALL THE CAKE
[18:02] <davmor2> AlanBell: what do you mean.....What cake
[18:11] <christel> TheOpenSourcerer: i have left you a slice on your desk! ;)
[18:11] <christel> unless AlanBell ate it when i left!
[18:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Thanks christel :-D
[18:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> I haz cake
[18:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> In the morning.
[18:12] <christel> :D
[18:14] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: keep it covered or the mice will have it
[18:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> No mice in our office. Far to clean and neat.
[18:15] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: wow yo move the cursor with your mind :D
[18:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> huh?
[18:17] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: you don't use a mouse to move the cursor on your screen as you have no mice so you must use your mind right?
[18:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh. Twas a bit slow there.
[18:49] <Myrtti> oh right, Olympic Games have an official camera. I wonder do they smack you with a inflatable Coca-Cola bottle if you try to take photos of the Marathon with a Nikon or Canon
[18:51] <popey> you can't pay for tickets with anything other than sponsor credit card, visa :(
[18:56] <Azelphur> :(
[19:01] <diplo> evenin all
[19:14] <ali1234> could someone read this up to end of part 4 and tell me if it makes sense: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UEFI
[19:18] <diplo> Seems to make sense from as much as I understand
[19:18] <ali1234> do you understand why i think it's not useful?
[19:19] <diplo> Yep, it's basically not as secure as it's set out to be because you can run either Aroot or Broot against each other with the cross certs ?
[19:20] <diplo> Whether I typed that correctly, I understand what you are getting at
[19:20] <ali1234> i know, it's hard to explain
[19:20] <diplo> I understand, so if I do, people who want to know about this should :D
[19:20] <ali1234> it gets trickier if you also do sub certificates on both sides, but i don't think it affects things at all
[19:21] <ali1234> in the end if you use a cross certificate you might as well just include the certificate you are making a cross for, and it makes no difference in the end
[19:21] <ali1234> and given that it doesn't even work i don't want to go down the path of covering/explaining that in detail
[19:21] <diplo> Spoke to Matthew Garrett at all ?
[19:21] <ali1234> yeah
[19:22] <ali1234> unfortunately he's about as helpful as a chocolate fireguard
[19:22] <diplo> :)
[19:22] <ali1234> i guess he's got better things to do than explain this to every noob out there
[19:22] <ali1234> which is why i'm trying to do it
[19:22] <diplo> I watched a vid of him presenting
[19:23] <diplo> Seems like he knows his stuff but also may be a bit hard to talk to the way he answered some questions
[19:23] <diplo> That was initial thought from me anyhoo
[19:24] <ali1234> so at the moment i'm leaning towards the following conclusions:
[19:24] <ali1234> 1. fedora's plan is the only workable one
[19:24] <ali1234> 2. ubuntu's plan is fatally flawed and won't be allowed by microsoft
[19:25] <ali1234> 3. if you want to customize the kernel or modules *at all* then nothing done by ubuntu or fedora will help you at all, you must do everything yourself or turn off secure boot
[19:25] <diplo> I still can't believe that Microsoft are allow to control this, you would have thought EU would have waded in and said this should be run by a foundation or something of that ilk, and not a corporation
[19:26] <ali1234> and by "workable" i mean it's the only way to get any software to run on a windows 8 machine without doing anything in the bios
[19:26] <AlanBell> ali1234: I will have a read
[19:26] <ali1234> none of this at all will be of any use to anyone who s willing to change bios settings
[19:26] <ali1234> anyway i'm going to cover all that in the next part
[19:30] <ali1234> This part 4 might not actually even be worth posting
[19:34] <AlanBell> I think the whole concept is flawed really, as you can boot stuff and then launch a virtual machine and continue booting other stuff in the VM without it knowing
[19:36] <ali1234> no, that's not true
[19:36] <AlanBell> the Canonical approach is to have a really thin bootloader that loads unsigned code really quickly
[19:36] <ali1234> it's very easy to detect virtualized environments on x86
[19:37] <ali1234> yes, and the canonical approach won't be allowed by microsoft
[19:37] <AlanBell> but a thicker bootloader would take longer until it will run unsigned code, but they all will do
[19:37] <AlanBell> just in userspace
[19:37] <ali1234> if microsoft ever signs anything that can run anything that can load unsigned kernel code, then the whole house of cards collapses
[19:38] <ali1234> and the system described by canonical is an example of a system that does exactly that
[19:40] <ali1234> that also includes exploits as well of course
[19:41] <ali1234> if you have the microsoft key enrolled, you are not secure if any exploit is found in any signed bootloader, kernel, or module
[19:41] <ali1234> for any OS
[19:41] <ali1234> which is a lot of OSes
[19:41] <ali1234> well, any signed-by-microsoft OS
[19:41] <ali1234> but we can still assume that will cover quite a few
[19:43] <ali1234> since there will be loads of exploits, there will need be many CRL updates
[19:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot/whitepaper-web
[19:51] <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: "Because these operating systems do not have keys stored in every computer's firmware by default like Microsoft does, users will have to disable Secure Boot before booting the new system's installer." - not true
[19:54] <ali1234> what they say about GRUB2 is spot on though
[19:55] <ali1234> you know, it's never actually necessary to "disable security" or anything like that
[19:55] <ali1234> if you are sitting in front of the machine you can always override it
[19:55] <ali1234> that's what the certification says
[19:55] <ali1234> even on arm it is possible to disable the secure boot per the spec
[19:56] <ali1234> if you have the platform key you can do anything you want through a signed update
[20:03] <ali1234> i think there interpretation of the fedora plan is also incorrect
[20:05] <ali1234> you know, i don't think there's anything in the UEFI spec to prevent a boot device having two bootloader binaries installed
[20:05] <ali1234> if the first one fails to authenticate the second one would run
[20:05] <ali1234> so an install cd could try the ubuntu signed bootloader, and if that fails, try the microsoft one
[20:11] <ali1234> hmm maybe not
[21:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] But which one is the straight man? - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/07/02/but-which-one-is-the-straight-man/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=but-which-one-is-the-straight-man
[21:15] <popey> haha


[19:56] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue734 up for review and final edits - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue734 :D
[20:00] <kryten> Bashing-om: "Bin Li"
[20:01] <Bashing-om> kryten: Looking.
[20:06] <Bashing-om> kryten: It is as "BinLi" as the nickname on his WIKI page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/binli .
[20:07] <kryten> And maybe the Kylin articles should be sorted by their time of publishing (indicated by the number in the link here)
[20:08] <kryten> I mean one of you spelled the real name "Bin li"
[20:08] <Bashing-om> kryten: I too had that thought but presently the order is as presented on thier nwes site. Change our order anyway ?
[20:10] <Bashing-om> kryten: I does seem that the real name is as "Bin li" .
[20:10] <kryten> Yeah, they order them last-first.
[20:10] <kryten> But not with a lowercase "li"!
[20:12] <Bashing-om> kryten: Hokay - easy enough to change the order :D // OH - "Li" ! Making it so.
[20:19] <Bashing-om> UWN: Next edits ? :D


[00:01] <ubptgbot> Basshacker98 was added by: Basshacker98
 out of curiosity, is anyone using this GSI setup on a snapdragon Note 8?
[01:46] <ubptgbot> sankalp_choudhary was added by: sankalp_choudhary
[03:14] <ubptgbot> sentot olajide was added by: sentot olajide
[03:41] <ubptgbot> Robert Karsay was added by: Robert Karsay
[04:11] <ubptgbot> Jamila Nari was added by: Jamila Nari
[05:11] <ubptgbot> ScardracS was added by: ScardracS
 Hi there. I was watching on that list: https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch/blob/master/CORE_APPS.md and found it's a bit old (for example link of music is broken)
 @Raj Raunak Kumar [I am not finding Nexsus 5 anywhere.], Have you looked at ebay and amazon?
[08:55] <ubptgbot> Mick_117 was added by: Mick_117
[09:59] <ubptgbot> halid_k was added by: halid_k
[10:38] <ubptgbot> Matvey_nt was added by: Matvey_nt
[10:55] <ubptgbot> PratyushOfficial was added by: PratyushOfficial
 Hi guys
[11:18] <ubptgbot> Hazards_DE was added by: Hazards_DE
 do you all consider Ub touch on the pine64 evolved enough for the general public? I love to have one but im no programmer
 no, not yet. not as a daily driver. otoh you dont need to be programmer to use one. you'd just need to be prepared for bugs.
 hey can I use the s9 GSI for my s9+?
 @Hazards_DE [hey can I use the s9 GSI for my s9+?], sounds like a question more suited to https://t.me/halium :)
 @dohbee [sounds like a question more suited to https://t.me/halium :)], Hello
 dug out my old BQ phone and started fiddling around with UBPorts stuff again for the first time in a while 🙂  … Just managed to fix stuff on this old post to get Java stuff working: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/4132/getting-java-working-on-ubtouch/13
 Also figured out a mechanism for providing API keys to the OSM QML map plugin: http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2020/06/22/qt-qml-maps-using-the-osm-plugin-with-api-keys/
 nice
 @sergiusens [nice], Argentinian 🇦🇷!!!
[12:47] <ubptgbot> that_beautifuldream was added by: that_beautifuldream
 Hi is there a port for (whyred) Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro india
 Ubuntu touch can install git?
 @wufix [Ubuntu touch can install git?], Yes, if you install it from terminal using apt
 And run it on terminal top
 [Edit] And run it on terminal topo
 [Edit] And run it on terminal too
 Great
[13:08] <ubptgbot> tkbeats was added by: tkbeats
 bootloop on redmi note 7 levender how i can sove it
 hello gays
 What
 '
 ?
 @tkbeats [bootloop on redmi note 7 levender how i can sove it], What did you say, didn't understand
 Hey! I've installed modular launcher... and id like to ask how can I disable it...
 Hi
 Can anyone help me porting ubuntu touch my msm8953 device
 I've clicked 'Replace standard dash (beta)'e' to install it
 Abhijit check @halium
 @MrCoolAndroid [What did you say, didn't understand], i flashed the gsi ubport on levender but its stuck un boot i have  the boot.img for that but nothing work
 @tkbeats [bootloop on redmi note 7 levender how i can sove it], t.me/halium is the proper place
 Side note: have you flashed lineageos 16 and proper boot.img?
[13:39] <ubptgbot> <ALI Gintah> (Photo, 642x899) https://irc.ubports.com/Z0TxjwFH.png ,
 @ScardracS [Yes, if you install it from terminal using apt], in libertine
 @dohbee [in libertine], I don't use libertine as it doesn't work on lavender
 So normally I use terminal
 @ScardracS [I don't use libertine as it doesn't work on lavender], it is not a finished port. libertine is the supported way to install legacy/CLI apps though.
 @dohbee [it is not a finished port. libertine is the supported way to install legacy/CLI …], Can't wait to see it working 😅
[13:52] <ubptgbot> q00q00q00q00 was added by: q00q00q00q00
 Hello evrebody, i wanted to ask Ubuntu touch available on xiomi redmi note 5 pro (whyred )
 [Edit] Hello evrebody, i wanted to ask Ubuntu touch available on xiomi redmi note 5 pro (whyred )?
 https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io
 @dohbee [https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io], Oh, thanks
 my phone not supports
 @dohbee [https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io], looks like, you should pin this. ;-)
 @gischpelino [looks like, you should pin this. ;-)], it's literally in the group description already 🤷♀
 ok, let it be.
[14:49] <ubptgbot> Fabien was added by: Fabien
[15:03] <ubptgbot> Nithin Neelakandan was added by: Nithin Neelakandan
[15:08] <ubptgbot> <Nithin Neelakandan> Is there any other way to get ubuntu touch to my device other than porting. … I am not able to port I tried many time and data limited. … Is there any other way.
 no. each device must have a port made for it
[15:10] <ubptgbot> gabmus was added by: gabmus
[15:12] <ubptgbot> <Nithin Neelakandan> @dohbee [no. each device must have a port made for it], Ok Anyway Good os as my friends phone has. … Good work.
 Hey everyone, I am trying to build a halium patched kernel for my phone (oneplus 5) following this guide https://github.com/ubports/porting-notes/wiki/Halium-9 … I am stuck at step 3: "Make your device tree inherit from halium.mk instead of full_base_* and remove Java-dependent parts". What file(s) should I edit?
 @gabmus [Hey everyone, I am trying to build a halium patched kernel for my phone (oneplus …], you should ask in https://t.me/halium
 thanks!
[15:19] <ubptgbot> C06alt was added by: C06alt
 Hi guys, I'm trying to install an apk file but receive the following message.
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/GdNFdYQP.png Device offline
 is anbox set up and running?
 Hy Rodney, where can I found document about the anbox setting?
 http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/anbox.html
[15:38] <ubptgbot> Dockerfile256 was added by: Dockerfile256
 how to connect my ubuntu touch to pc?
 file or adb
[15:59] <ubptgbot> Gausi-1 was added by: Gausi-1
 How to build ubport for my device Poco f1 ??  … Please help devs😨
 @Danilo [<reply to media>], how can install it please? anbox
[16:17] <ubptgbot> RealLionKing was added by: RealLionKing
 @tkbeats [how to connect my ubuntu touch to pc?], if you just want to transfer files it will appear as MTP device over USB; if you enable developer mode on UT, then adb should be enabled; but in both cases it is not android
 @PtSurajShukla [How to build ubport for my device Poco f1 ??  … Please help devs😨], https://t.me/halium
[16:55] <ubptgbot> kristina Sean was added by: kristina Sean
[16:59] <ubptgbot> mad1mystic was added by: mad1mystic
[17:02] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> @13arz [I tried to search before, and I can't find Nexus 5 in Aliexpress], I don't know if I'm allowed to share that link (if not I will delete it): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027352986.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.793160cb97GnV8&algo_pvid=5ee48395-328b-4f6b-befe-5450a22c56f9&algo_expid=5ee48395-328b-4f6b-befe-5450a22c56f9-
[17:02] <ubptgbot> 5&btsid=0ab6f83915929316589291997e5df5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
[17:03] <ubptgbot> <Steve Kueffer> Here a 32 GB version: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32235891066.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.793160cb97GnV8&algo_pvid=5ee48395-328b-4f6b-befe-5450a22c56f9&algo_expid=5ee48395-328b-4f6b-befe-5450a22c56f9-4&btsid=0ab6f83915929316589291997e5df5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
[17:33] <ubptgbot> bogricc was added by: bogricc
[17:51] <ubptgbot> konusuzadam was added by: konusuzadam
 Hello how to enforce mobile view on morph and where does the parameter seat ?
 I've OP3 H7.1 handling the mobile view nicely while OP3 H9GSI is recognized as "compressed" deskopt viiew.
 there is no parameter afaik. it depends on the web site handling things correctly
[19:21] <ubptgbot> yusufabdrabbo was added by: yusufabdrabbo
 I'm puzzle, Reddit doesn't recognize in the same way both halium ...
 does the GSI build have proper device config?
 Are you refering to this config : https://github.com/Halium/android_device_oneplus_oneplus3/blob/halium-7.1/ubuntu/android.conf ?
 no, the config that sets the `GRID_UNIT_PX` value and such for each device
 on the UT side
 does that have the same value on both?
 Initially no, I've change it but even after a reboot didn't see the change.
 Maybe I should clear the morph cache
 @dohbee [no, the config that sets the GRID_UNIT_PX value and such for each device], It's copy during the halium buit into UT side, to accomodate all devices.
 @Ern_st [Initially no, I've change it but even after a reboot didn't see the change.], did the size of all the widgets change otherwise on the system though?
 Nothing obvious,
 run `echo $GRID_UNIT_PX` in terminal app, and make sure the value matches what it should be for OP3 (ie, the same as what is on the 7.1 build)
 ok let me look
 Yes both are at 21.
 ok. not sure then
 I just clear all data/config/cache, see if something remaining there but no.
 Thanks, I'll create a bug report against Morph then.
 @dohbee What's QTWEBKIT_DPR ?
 One is 2.2 the other 2.1
 device pixel ratio
 i don't think that's the cause, since the difference seems small enough it shouldn't be in windowed mode at that point
 I remember touching it without change ...
 just out of interest, is the calculation that decides whether a device defaults to desktop mode or mobile mode the same as the one android uses? my phone is bang on the edge, so i can get it to switch to 'desktop mode' firefox just by zooming the screen out a bit, but on ubports morph is always desktop mode
 err i guess i answered my own question there if they're different 😆
 there is no "desktop" mode in morph really. there is simply a change in the User-Agent string, based on the screen resolution and/or whether the device is in windowed mode (such as when plugging in an external screen)
 the UI of the browser changes too though, thats what im referring to really
 same happens with the terminal for me, on my phone the terminal has visible tabs at the top, until i side-stage it at which point it reverts to 'phone mode' with the UI
 I haven't tuched my ubport phone for months, how to get the newest Version?
 Be patient, system setting => update
 @PiecerEdd [same happens with the terminal for me, on my phone the terminal has visible tabs …], what do you mean "side stage" it? phones don't have the side stage. you are using your phone with too low `GRID_UNIT_PX` value is why
 😆 its a landscape screen... i guess thats why and that explains why im getting tablet-UI stuff
 @Ern_st  Like on other OS :-).    Thanks
 @PiecerEdd [😆 its a landscape screen... i guess thats why and that explains why im getting …], eh?
 its a cosmo communicator... the screen is landscape by default, rather than portrait, so i dunno, everything seems to default to tablet
 ive got side stage, tabbed browser/terminal
 well the device config is probably wrong for it
 Wait, the browser only has tabs when it's wide enough to allow for tabs. Isn't that what you want?
 And the terminal
 if UT is in landscape mode by default on a phone, then the rotation config is probably wrong for it, and if it has staged mode, other parts of the config are probably wrong for it
 the phone's supposed to be landscape mode not portrait, its got a hw keyboard
 Right, and you say that the terminal has tabs until you place it into the side stage. Correct?
 oh it's not a slider, it's a weird dual screen clamshell thing
 so it defaulting to 'tablet mode' is good for me, i like it
 i just thought it was strange that ubuntu touch does but android doesnt
 hence my question 😛
 I suppose it depends on the Android app, but generally they make assumptions that a device will not change while it's running and they run on phones
 well still part of the device config is probably wrong and it's doing tablet mode instead of phone mode
 yeah firefox gives me 'phone mode' until i zoom out a few clicks then i restart it and its got tablet-style tabs
 eh, suppose its down to the porter to decide that, i think they made the right decision IMO but it did confuse me at first after having used ubuntu touch on another phone in the past and it was obviously all 'phone mode'
 (Sticker, 463x512) https://irc.ubports.com/N0rH0gnp.webp
 @13arz [<reply to media>], Something is suspicious about this. The overview pictures are for a Nexus 5X, while the specs are the Nexus 5
 (Sticker, 467x512) https://irc.ubports.com/GSQVsH11.webp
[20:11] <ubptgbot> GarrettCornwell was added by: GarrettCornwell
 @dohbee [there is no "desktop" mode in morph really. there is simply a change in the User …], Yup - so in websites that are coded as "dynamic" ones, Morph shows the mobile version in portrait and the desktop version in landscape.  E
 @dohbee [there is no "desktop" mode in morph really. there is simply a change in the User …], [Edit] Yup - so in websites that are coded as "dynamic" ones, Morph shows the mobile version in portrait and the desktop version in landscape.
[20:46] <ubptgbot> Mitch was added by: Mitch
 Anyone have an experia X performance
 [Edit] Anyone have an xperia X performance
 Got a new one cheep off ebay today. Hoping it works out well. Nice hardware in it.
 used? I am about to buy an X because finding a new Performance is difficult
 Where to put the private key for ssh ? May be I am justconfused bacause I am on aphone.
 @lernlink [Where to put the private key for ssh ? May be I am justconfused bacause I am on …], are you asking about UT, or halium reference?
 Ut
 the private key remains on whatever system you are connecting from
 you add the publlic key to `~/.ssh/authorized_keys` on the phone
 @lernlink [Ut], see http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/advanceduse/ssh.html
 (Photo, 1440x2560) https://irc.ubports.com/ykUHD2EX.png
 Odd, only my ubports device cant connect
 your wifi is probably giving it the wrong DNS then; or you've done something with `/etc/hosts` to cause it to get blocked by resolving to <IP_ADDRESS>
 Yep. Resolving to localhost. Ill look at etc/hosts


[08:07] <RikMills> jibel: is a fix for LP: #1885414 likely to land soonish? I got new Plasma into groovy the other day, and some testers are being a bit blocked by that
[08:22] <mantas-baltix> Hi, I need your advice for choosing metapackage creation technology - I'm developing Ubuntu-based distribution for schools and previously used simply repackaged ubuntu-meta as base, see https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~baltix-members/baltix-seeds/baltix-meta-packages/files
[08:26] <mantas-baltix> but this way isn't effective - it seems Debian uses Tasksel-based Blends metapackages, see https://blends.debian.org/blends/apa.html#blends-dev and Ubuntu uses "Seeds"
[08:26] <mantas-baltix> like https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntustudio
[08:30] <mantas-baltix> I don't know which is better for long-term (at least 4-5 years) , it seems metapackages created with blends-dev depends on tasksel, while Ubuntu "Seeds" don't depend on tasksel and are easier to understand, see for example https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntustudio/tree/desktop
[08:41] <jibel> RikMills, once https://code.launchpad.net/~mwhudson/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/386704 is merged and released
[08:42] <juliank> mantas-baltix: So you've got your own seed like thing already, I'm not sure where full blown seeds would help you? what problem are you trying to solve?
[08:44] <juliank> anyway, seeds might be the way to go
[08:44] <juliank> personally i find germinate overkill for my use cases in metapackage building
[08:45] <mantas-baltix> juliank: my thing is very hard to maintain, because I have separate files for depends and recommends and symlinks for different architectures :(
[08:45] <juliank> I see
[08:45] <juliank> I never implemented Recommends for my metapackage generator
[08:45] <mantas-baltix> juliank: I never used germinate, could you point to some documentation?
[08:46] <juliank> mantas-baltix: e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Germinate, https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/cosmic/man1/germinate.1.html
[08:47] <juliank> mantas-baltix: germinate is what reads the files, checks them for consistency, and outputs the substvars for debian packages, amongst other things
[08:47] <juliank> (it can also like fully expand the seed, which in turns determines which packages end up in the live images)
[08:56] <mantas-baltix> juliank: it seems Tasksel-based Blends metapackages, see https://blends.debian.org/blends/apa.html#blends-dev does the same but in different way :)
[08:59] <mantas-baltix> cjwatson: hi, it seems you are germinate developer, could you advice me if I should use Tasksel-based Blends for custom ubuntu-based distribution metapackages (see https://blends.debian.org/blends/apa.html#blends-dev) or Germinate and "Seeds" ? ;)
[09:05] <cjwatson> mantas-baltix: False dichotomy.  Seeds are in fact used to generate tasks in Ubuntu as well
[09:06] <cjwatson> So they can be an input to tasksel
[09:06] <cjwatson> mantas-baltix: Anyway, I have no experience with blends so can't advise you
[10:03] <mantas-baltix> cjwatson: thanks, maybe you can tell if there are some plans to use blends in Ubuntu or metapackages will use only seeds in near future?
[10:12] <cjwatson> mantas-baltix: although I maintain the germinate package, I haven't otherwise been involved in that sort of thing in Ubuntu for five years
[10:12] <cjwatson> mantas-baltix: I'm pretty sure there are no plans to use blends.  Otherwise I couldn't tell you
[10:47] <rbalint> kanashiro, doko happy +1 day, what are you working on and what is free to grab on update-excuses?
[10:56] <rbalint> i'm going through the small stuck sets then will pick a big transition, so suggestions will be welcome
[11:02] <doko> rbalint, kanashiro: working mostly from the bottom up on ftbfs
[11:16] <rbalint> doko, kanashiro i'm finishing the small orcania transition
[11:32] <AsciiWolf> kenvandine, hi, I am not sure if you are the one who is working on this bug or Robert is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snap-store-desktop/+bug/1873040 - anyway, please let me know if there is anything I could do (test, debug, provide additional info etc.) to help getting this annoying bug fixed... :)
[11:32] <AsciiWolf> some regular users that I recommended Ubuntu 20.04 to were already asking me how to install non-snap apps because they did not realize that the empty space is actually clickable :/
[12:04] <ahasenack> good morning
[12:16] <kanashiro> rbalint: doko I intend to finish my work on all ruby packages in proposed today. If I have time I'd like to start to work on some prometheus deps (golang packages)
[12:16] <kanashiro> I'll keep you posted about the status here
[12:19] <kanashiro> haskell packages need some love, hopefully I'll find some time until tomorrow to work on some of them
[12:39] <mantas-baltix> AsciiWolf: hi, could you confirm if Snap Store launcher isn't translated in any language, see gug #1882929
[12:39] <mantas-baltix> AsciiWolf: bug #1882929
[12:46] <AsciiWolf> mantas-baltix, hmm, to be honest, I am not aware of this issue... I can't speak for other translations, but in our Czech translation, the "Ubuntu Software" and "Snap Store" strings are intentionally left in the original, untranslated, form :)
[13:11] <kanashiro> mwhudson: as you should have noticed your golang-github-miekg-dns PR was accepted upstream, if you want I can prepare an upload with the patch. Please let me know
[13:14] <ahasenack> go for it? He will only be online at our EOD
[13:17] <kanashiro> I can but I also have other stuff to do, idk if he wants to handle this by himself
[13:18] <mitya57> LocutusOfBorg: I filed Debian #964141 now, let's see what the glibc maintainers think about it.
[13:18] <kanashiro> it's in my TODO list anyway
[13:22] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks!!!
[16:38] <realtime-neil> Is there a way to `apt --reinstall install` a package without re-downloading it? `--no-download` doesn't work.
[17:56] <sarnold> popey: hmm -- I'm trying to use the matterhorn 'view' thing to view attachments and getting unexpected DENIED messages -- this worked yesterday? http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NDfcbdJT6z/plain/
[17:57] <sarnold> realtime-neil: if the package actually does exist in /var/cache/apt/archives, that sounds like a bug
[17:58] <realtime-neil> sarnold, that sounds accurate
[18:29] <xnox> realtime-neil:  are you sure it's the same? and has the same checksum/metadata etc?
[18:29] <xnox> realtime-neil:  you can do $ sudo apt install --reinstall ./packages_*.deb
[18:30] <xnox> with absolute path to the .deb, or like with './' prefix.
[18:42] <realtime-neil> xnox, the problem I'm having is that, after the initial installation there is a process beyond my control that deletes the Debian archive from the apt cache.
[18:43] <realtime-neil> Some nice folks in #debian have led me to believe that, once the archive is gone, it's impossible to reinstall without downloading again
[18:47] <cjwatson> realtime-neil: that belief is correct
[18:48] <cjwatson> It's not uncommon for things to run 'apt clean' or 'apt autoclean' or similar automatically on the basis that there's a very small amount of point in leaving large files around on the off-chance somebody might want to reinstall from them
[18:49] <cjwatson> But if the files in question are still in the cache then IIRC they shouldn't be redownloaded
[18:51] <realtime-neil> cjwatson, makes sense; my particular context is in the ubuntu installer --- after `pkgsel/include` does its thing, my package is very slightly broken. A reinstall fixes it, but by the time the `preseed/late_command` fires, the installer has already cleaned the cache.
[18:52] <realtime-neil> cjwatson, you wouldn't happen to be this author, would you? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installer/Development
[18:52] <cjwatson> Yes but I haven't worked on the installer for years
[18:52] <cjwatson> So not likely to be much use to you now
[18:53] <realtime-neil> If you remember anything about the patching debian-installer and/or the build process, I'd appreciate any words you can offer.
[18:53] <cjwatson> I don't recall where there might be a clean call, but it should be visible somewhere ...
[18:53] <cjwatson> This is a bit of a vague problem for me to page in memory of at 8pm I'm afraid
[18:54] <cjwatson> Maybe tomorrow if you have more details and logs
[18:55] <realtime-neil> I can accept the double download ... my overarching issue is that I don't know how to build the ubuntu installer
[18:55] <realtime-neil> Or, really, how it differs from d-i
[19:07] <xnox> realtime-neil:  there is a newish apt option to retain downloaded .debs and not delete them.
[19:07] <xnox> realtime-neil: you can use that
[19:07] <xnox> rafaeldtinoco:  when you say "ubuntu installer" => it is ambigious, as we have many.
[19:08] <xnox> rafaeldtinoco:  unping
[19:08]  * rafaeldtinoco hides
[19:08] <xnox> realtime-neil:  and most of them use combination of preinstalled squashfs + pool of debs. With base system bootstraped, and no debs for those available during the install.
[19:08] <xnox> realtime-neil:  which package are you trying to reinstall?
[19:09] <xnox> realtime-neil:  i want to put a banner "obsolete" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installer/Development
[19:11] <tumbleweed> realtime-neil: you say "your package is very slightly broken" - best option is probably to fix it
[19:14] <realtime-neil> xnox, I'm asking specifically about the d-i installer ... the one I can use to make installation media
[19:14] <realtime-neil> well, I guess all of them can do that, but I'm interested in USB sticks to start
[19:15] <realtime-neil> xnox, yeah, that page seems a little dated
[19:15] <realtime-neil> tumbleweed, yes, I'm still trying to figure out how to fix a project that is broken when installed without grub
[19:16] <sarnold> popey: oh. It was snap autorefresh :(
[19:26] <kanashiro> I have been facing a ruby-http autopkgtest failure in s390x which seems that the testbed is broken, however, I re-triggered it a couple of times and it is still failing. Could someone give me any tip on how to fix this? https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/ruby-http/groovy/s390x
[19:27] <kanashiro> it is passing in the other architectures
[19:42] <realtime-neil> kanashiro, I must know: where did you get that s390x system?
[19:45] <kanashiro> realtime-neil: it is the Ubuntu autopkgtest infrastructure. The failure does not represent a real issue in s390x, it should be something related to the testbed setup I think
[20:22] <cjwatson> realtime-neil: (I will defer to xnox who has spent a lot more time with the installer lately than I have)
[20:23] <realtime-neil> cjwatson, 10-4; xnox is there any documentation you can point me at?
[20:49] <xnox> realtime-neil:  i don't know what you are trying to do.
[20:49] <xnox> so it's hard to help =)
[20:49] <xnox> realtime-neil:  what is you project, and goal?
[20:51] <realtime-neil> xnox, I want to remaster Ubuntu installers and make custom images for netinst and hd-media
[20:52] <realtime-neil> debian has this https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Build ... I'm wondering if Ubuntu has something similar
[20:52] <xnox> realtime-neil:  which architectures are you planning to install on to? is it VMs or bare-metal? why remaster -> what do you want to include in them, and from where?
[20:53] <xnox> is it going to be deployed with or without network access?
[20:54] <xnox> realtime-neil:  note that vast majority of installations today do not use d-i, but use ubiquity-desktop isos, subiquity live-server isos, or the cloud-images that are booted in place, and self-customize on first boot => but also all of those can be booted over the network & locally.
[20:54] <realtime-neil> arches: amd64 certainly, maybe armv7 in the distant future; UEFI firmware platforms, both virtualized and metal; remastered because I want to add packages gotten from private repositories; netinst images require network, but hd-media should avoid network
[20:55] <xnox> realtime-neil:  and our .iso by default support airgapped deployment. I.e. without internet access.
[20:55] <xnox> realtime-neil:  ack. sounds reasonable.
[20:55] <realtime-neil> excellent
[20:55] <xnox> armv7 has no boot protocol however => and we do not provide media for it, only preinstalled images for select targets
[20:56] <realtime-neil> that's fine, i figured as much -- I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for UEFI on arm-anything
[20:57] <xnox> realtime-neil:  if i were you, i'd prepare an offline pool of debs, write it as append track to existing .iso, and then boot it with extra paramemeters on the cmdline to enable that additional repository.
[20:57] <xnox> realtime-neil:  we have multiple public clouds, server grade hardware and iot devices with ARM and UEFI.
[20:58] <xnox> realtime-neil:  i.e. packet cloud, AWS Graviton instances, pi4 with uefi firmware flashed, etc.
[20:58] <xnox> all enabled for ubuntu
[20:58] <realtime-neil> xnox, I'll take that advice. Just for the sake of argument, how would I create images (including isos) from source?
[20:58] <xnox> realtime-neil:  we build images from binaries, from debs.
[20:58] <realtime-neil> xnox, granted, I'm talking about the initramfs contents that drive the installation
[20:59] <xnox> realtime-neil:  the d-i artefacts, one can rebuild, with $ pull-lp-source debian-installer focal; sbuild -A -d focal ./debian-installer*.dsc
[20:59] <xnox> is how the initrd, inside the /installer-*/ directories are built.
[20:59] <xnox> realtime-neil:  it would produce the same layout, in a tarball.
[20:59] <xnox> realtime-neil:  why do you need to modify the initrd?
[21:00] <xnox> realtime-neil:  one can enable, extra local, repositories, keys, and install .udebs or .debs, from it, _without_ changing the initrd.
[21:00] <realtime-neil> just in case I have to track down some dirty module
[21:00] <xnox> realtime-neil:  i cannot help, if you don't tell me what you want to do. and things i say, may be misused, as you are not sharing context.
[21:01] <realtime-neil> ah, okay, understood; I'll leave the initrd alone.
[21:01] <xnox> realtime-neil:  the initrd itself, has very little things. most things are installed from udebs dynamically after the initrd has found a way to fetch udebs (from internet or from local locations)
[21:01] <xnox> realtime-neil:  and inside debian-installer there is LOCAL_UDEBS, and config files, if you must replace things in the initrd. But it's unlikely that you do.
[21:02] <xnox> having custom pool, and enough apt-source/* things specified via backed-in preseed on the cmdline should be enough to force the installer to always use your extra pool, for things.
[21:02] <xnox> (both udebs during d-i, and debs for in-target)
[21:03] <xnox> realtime-neil:  note, you don't need to rebuild initrd to append preseed to it, as initrds are appendable.
[21:03] <realtime-neil> understood ... this all great stuff ... is there no documentation for this?
[21:04] <xnox> realtime-neil:  do not modify shim, grub, kernel, kernel modules => if you want to boot with secureboot on UEFI firmware. If you don't care about secureboot, anything goes.
[21:04] <xnox> realtime-neil:  we have removed documentation, as focal is the last release that ships with d-i.
[21:04] <xnox> realtime-neil:  and the server guide is updated, on how to netboot the new installer, or boot in place, and it is mostly driven by cloud-init to customize on first boot.
[21:05] <realtime-neil> xnox, ouch. so the successor is documented in the server guide?
[21:05] <xnox> with a simply yaml autoinstall preseeds, that allow to declaratively install servers.
[21:05] <xnox> and there is any cloud-init to e.g. enable local/custom, or remote repositories, install things from there.
[21:06] <xnox> realtime-neil:  the nice thing about the new installer, is that it is just a cloud-image repacked as netbootable or local .iso. And everything is build from debs, without any .udebs
[21:06] <xnox> realtime-neil:  meaning it's a live server environment with regular cloud-init / apt / ssh all working, during live-session, and post install.
[21:07] <realtime-neil> xnox, where can I learn everything about this new mechanism? Which releases does it support?
[21:07] <xnox> realtime-neil:  https://ubuntu.com/server/docs see installation in the overview, and the detailed installer sections.
[21:07] <xnox> realtime-neil:  bionic and focal, that is 18.04 and 20.04
[21:08] <realtime-neil> I picked the wrong release to start with a d-i preseed :D
[21:08] <xnox> realtime-neil:  which one did you pick?
[21:08] <realtime-neil> I've been following the debian d-i documentation and trying to adapt it to bionic
[21:09] <realtime-neil> This may have been a colossal waste of time.
[21:09] <xnox> realtime-neil:  less than 5% of ubuntu installs use d-i. The vast majority use preinstalled ubuntu server images, that are booted in place (or like initrd+kernel booted over the network, to them do remote root to again boot in place) and self customize on first boot with cloud-init.
[21:10] <xnox> why customize installer, install, and reboot. When one can use stock images to boot, straight away, and apply necessory customization on first boot.
[21:10] <xnox> and like for IoT stuff, mostly people use Ubuntu Core to use one of the hundreds existing models, to add custom snaps, and boom you have your product enabled on any armhf/IoT boards.
[21:11] <realtime-neil> A. Because I was completely ignorant of this. Better late than never, I guess.
[21:11] <xnox> including private/custom/propietary snaps.
[21:11] <xnox> like all of the ROS things are build on top of snaps with Ubuntu Core without any installers at all.
[21:12] <xnox> realtime-neil:  debian, doesn't build as many custom, target/platform specific, presintalled images as we do.
[21:12] <realtime-neil> Don't the snaps use containers or something?
[21:12] <xnox> realtime-neil:  no
[21:12] <xnox> realtime-neil:  the run on bare-metal....
[21:13] <xnox> they use a lot of kernel features to do so securely, with strict upgrade / isolation, but there are no hypervisors/docker/k8s or similar invovled.
[21:13] <xnox> i.e. they use AppArmor, seccomp filters, firewalls, signature checking, etc.
[21:13] <realtime-neil> in my limited experience, playing with dkms modules inside of that kind of isolation doesn't work very well.
[21:14] <xnox> Ubuntu Core has kernel as a snap. Why do dkms builds on target, when you can prebuild a kernel snap, with all the dkms modules you want once, and just deploy it.
[21:15] <xnox> i.e. ubuntu-image can be trivally be used to rebuild any ubuntu-core image, with a tweaked kernel snap.
[21:15] <realtime-neil> You make have just sold me on this.
[21:15] <realtime-neil> You may have just sold me on this.
[21:15] <xnox> and one can even skip rebuilding kernel snap from scratch and append a kernel module to it.
[21:15] <xnox> realtime-neil:  maybe you should join #snappy channel and like talk to ogra who build a lot of custom things.
[21:16] <xnox> realtime-neil:  for ROS, robots / kioks / smart screens, etc.
[21:16] <realtime-neil> Just when I thought I was getting good with dpkg-buildpackage, everything changes. XD
[21:18] <xnox> realtime-neil:  https://snapcraft.io/ https://snapcraft.io/docs https://forum.snapcraft.io/
[21:20] <xnox> realtime-neil: ultimately, if one is building a product, one wants to be able to have reproducible images, that are easy to build, have stock components reused (i.e. core, snaps, gadget to boot the thing, etc) have extra stuff on top (i.e. a snap, that reuses ROS snapcraft plugin, and adds one more thing), and be able to quickly build images for any model, and deploy them in a reproducible manner.
[21:20] <xnox> with quick, boot in place, self-configure / initialize.
[21:21] <xnox> and snapcraft / ubuntu-image tooling deliver all of that. such that one can focus just on customization, whilst reusing "common" platform for the rest. (pick & mix)
[21:21] <xnox> or like derive from it, by staging existing component, and patching it as needed.
[21:22] <realtime-neil> I'm coming from a hard-core Debian packaging assumption --- control files, maintscripts, etc. --- what kind of learning curve can I expect with this new methodology?  Possibly gadget.yaml and a model. So learn a 4 files, and build them. and at that point one is dangerous.
[21:38] <realtime-neil> xnox, this is going to change everything; thanks very much.
[21:38] <xnox> realtime-neil:  i think we have a lot of recorded snapcraft webinars pre-recorded, and tutotrials / docs. I think people manage to build a custom ROS image, as a workshop in less than 5h as a tutorial / classroom thing?
[21:38] <xnox> realtime-neil:  maybe Wimpress has some links for you. Cause we ran contests for those sort of things too.
[21:38] <xnox> as fun/hack events
[21:40] <xnox> realtime-neil:  https://snapcraft.io/blog/your-first-robot-a-beginners-guide-to-ros-and-ubuntu-core-1-5 ?
[21:40] <xnox> there is alot on https://ubuntu.com/robotics
[21:40] <realtime-neil> xnox, I'm noticing a tangible emphasis on ROS --- do you work with robots?
[21:52] <xnox> it seems popular.
[21:52] <xnox> but there are other things too, non-robotic.
[21:52] <xnox> realtime-neil:  https://ubuntu.com/appliance
[21:53] <xnox> it's more about having purpose build things, on top of a common reliable core, that is trivially deployable to a variety of architecutres/forfacotrs.
[21:53] <xnox> cause "what" "where" and "how" are all separated.
[21:54] <xnox> realtime-neil:  for example, vendors often provide kernel snaps and gadgets, for others to build images with their "appplication snap" to deploy something.
[21:54] <xnox> ROS mostly provides plugins/frameworks/parts which others embed inside their application snaps (aka middlewear/drivers/etc)
[21:55] <xnox> realtime-neil:  i mostly build base snaps, which everyone bases their rootfs on. The 50-odd MB that everything operates on.
[22:14] <ogra> realtime-neil, this is pretty old and very arm centric but should give you an idea https://ograblog.wordpress.com/2019/01/07/291/ ...
[22:15] <ogra> (there are newer tutorials for each of the bits on snapcraft.i👋docs somewhere, but i'm not sure there is one document that summarizes the single bits like this post)
[22:16] <ogra> *geez ... that emoji plugin ...*
[22:16] <ogra> the docs category on snapcraft io
[22:16] <realtime-neil> ogra, nice, thanks!
[22:17] <ogra> and regarding ROS you probably want to talk to kyrofa 🙂
[22:39] <mwhudson> kanashiro: happy for you to upload it, i'll do it in my +1 shift on monday if you don't get to it!
[22:40] <kanashiro> mwhudson: good, I can do it tomorrow :)
[22:40] <mwhudson> ugh why are libraries on arm64 built with ie tls-model?
[22:42] <mwhudson> oh they're not but the surplus tls space gets used for gd libraries
[22:42] <mwhudson> that seems bonkers


[03:02] <xs20> good evening
[03:14] <holstein> o/
[07:02] <InfoCentral> So I tried several time to do a clean install of Studio without sucess.  It either freezed or errored.
[07:04] <InfoCentral> What I was able to do was install Ubuntu 12 from an old disk I have and then upgrade to 14.  What is the difference between Ubuntu Studio and Ubuntu 14?  Can I just download the modules onto Ubuntu 14?
[07:08] <InfoCentral> Help
[07:08] <cfhowlett> !help
[07:09] <InfoCentral> I believe I did ask a few questions
[07:26] <zequence> InfoCentral: There are a few differences. Are you using Ubuntu Studio for music production?
[07:27] <zequence> If not, it doesn't really matter. If yes, you'll need to set up your system for realtime audio.
[07:27] <InfoCentral> Mostly graphics but yes I was planning on using it for podcasting too.
[07:28] <zequence> podcasting, using jack?
[07:28] <InfoCentral> Audacity
[07:28] <zequence> Jack is the pro audio server.
[07:28] <zequence> Ok, right. You record with Audacity. Then, put the files as links somewhere
[07:29] <zequence> No problem. You don't need realtime settings for that
[07:29] <InfoCentral> This is my intro into Linux.  Been using Windows but an trying out Ubuntu if I can get it work.  Not much luck yet.
[07:30] <cfhowlett> while I would love to welcome you to ubuntustudio, be advised that audacity also runs on windows.  just sayin ...
[07:30] <zequence> InfoCentral: Why not make a usb installer of Ubuntu Studio, and install from that? Also, sounds like there may be some problem with your old DVD
[07:32] <InfoCentral> The old DVD with Ubuntu 12 and installation is rock solid.  Its when I try to get Studio installed that everything falls apart.
[07:32] <zequence> Doesn't sound rock solid to me
[07:32] <zequence> You mean, it freezes when you install packages using Software Center?
[07:32] <zequence> How are you installing Ubuntu Studio?
[07:33] <cfhowlett> InfoCentral, this ^^^.  why not download Ubuntustudio 14.04.2, make a new USB/DVD and install from there?
[07:34] <InfoCentral> I am thinking about doing that but not sure if that is the problem.  I had Studio check the disk before install and it says it fine.  The error message I get say that there was an "internal error"
[07:35] <zequence> InfoCentral: You say you get it when you try to install Ubuntu Studio. How are you trying to install Ubuntu Studio?
[07:35] <InfoCentral> I have 2 DVD's one with Ubuntu 12 and one with Studio 14
[07:37] <zequence> Ok, so it does sound like there could be a problem with the DVD
[07:37] <zequence> DVDs in my experience are often faulty
[07:37] <zequence> Much better to use a usb installer
[07:37] <zequence> IF you have the iso, you can use an application such as http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/, or http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[07:38] <zequence> Just make sure to use the iso for making the installer, not one of the menu options
[07:38] <zequence> The easiest, and most reliable way is to use Ubuntu for making the usb installer though
[07:39] <zequence> using dd in the terminal
[07:40] <InfoCentral> Yeah, your going way beyond me now.  I am an artist not a network tech.
[07:40] <zequence> The two apps I linked to are installable on Windows
[07:42] <zequence> You'll need a usb stick, which will be wiped
[07:42] <InfoCentral> To boot from a usb with an iso would require a blank usb?
[07:42] <zequence> It doesn't need to be blank before you make the installer
[07:42] <zequence> You'll need to select the usb stick in your bios later as what to boot from too.
[07:43] <zequence> Another extra precaution is to check the iso for errors after downloading it.
[07:44] <zequence> On windows you can use something like this http://www.winmd5.com/ (I have never used it)
[07:44] <zequence> The MD5SUMS file is on this link for 14.04.2 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/14.04.2/release/
[07:45] <zequence> This is the actual MD5SUMS file http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/14.04.2/release/MD5SUMS.
[07:45] <zequence> Using the MD5 app I linked to on the ISO file would give you a long string of characters. Those must be exactly the same as on the MD5SUMS file
[07:46] <zequence> THis is to ensure you got every bit of the ISO when downloading, which is not always the case
[07:46] <InfoCentral> Yeah, I read about Ubuntu Studio and said hey I'll give it a try.  So I followed the instructions and it has proven to be undoable.  I then remember I had an old 12 disk and pulled that out just to see if I could get it to install.  It worked like a charm.
[07:46] <zequence> I think torrents can be more reliable
[07:46] <zequence> InfoCentral: I still think it's the DVD that causes the problem
[07:47] <zequence> It's not undoable. IT's actually pretty fantastic that you can install something made by volunteers on pretty much anything without much corporate support
[07:47] <zequence> You'd have the same problem with any OS, if the DVD was faulty
[07:48] <InfoCentral> Right now I have it {once again} upgrading it to 14.04
[07:49] <zequence> Since you aren't going to do any audio work, other than using Audacity, you won't need Ubuntu Studio
[07:49] <zequence> If you want to check out all the graphics or video apps, just install the Ubuntu Studio packages for those
[07:50] <zequence> ubuntustudio-video ubuntustudio-graphics
[07:50] <zequence> Ubuntu Studio has the exact same core as Ubuntu
[07:50] <InfoCentral> how do I install those?
[07:50] <zequence> ALl of the packages are in the Ubuntu repositories
[07:51] <zequence> Use Ubuntu Software Center
[07:51] <InfoCentral> which is where?
[07:51] <zequence> In your UBuntu panel
[07:52] <zequence> It's an application for installating packages from the Ubuntu repositories onto your computer via the internet
[07:52] <InfoCentral> hummm...I'll have to look for that once it finsihes upgrading
[07:52] <zequence> You practically never download stuff manually from the internet and double click to install, like you do on Windows.
[07:53] <InfoCentral> and these packages are listed in this Sofware Center?
[07:53] <zequence> Most of what you will ever need is at your fingertips just using a package installer, such as Ubuntu Software Center, or synaptic, or whatever
[07:53] <zequence> They are in the UBuntu repositories. Package managers have different ways of listing them, but the packages are there
[07:54] <zequence> In the Universe repository, which is community maintained
[07:55] <zequence> Anyway, it's not rocket sciense, just look around in your desktop. It's all there.
[07:55] <zequence> Good luck
[07:55] <InfoCentral> I was under the impression Linux would be like Windows and Mac but it is very complicated
[08:06] <zequence> InfoCentral: I can give you one tip, which will greatly simplify your first experience. Ubuntu and all its flavors, including Ubuntu Studio, don't come preinstalled with non-free codecs and other small things that you might be used to
[08:07] <zequence> InfoCentral: If you want those, install the package ubuntu-restricted-extras
[08:07] <zequence> Among other things, you'll get support for converting into mp3 and being able to watch flash content
[08:08] <zequence> I would use ogg over mp3 though
[08:09] <zequence> Also, if you have a NVIDIA or AMD graphic card, and you need better performance from your graphics, you might want to try installing the non-free drivers
[08:09] <zequence> ..provided by the companies themselves, but packaged in Ubuntu (the companies don't make packages for Ubuntu themselves)
[08:10] <zequence> You can use the application Software Sources (gtk-software-sources in a terminal), and use the last tab to check for non-free drivers
[08:11] <zequence> With that, you will still not be able to play dvd movies with encryption, since that is not a free format either
[08:11] <zequence> ..until you install the appropriate library.
[08:11] <zequence> You can read about that here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
[08:12] <zequence> The only thing complicated is using restricted formats, I would say
[08:12] <zequence> The rest is pretty simple.
[08:33] <InfoCentral> In looking around I think I will try Mint 17.1 as it supposed to be the best for beginners which I am
[08:58] <InfoCentral> Finished upgrade to 14.04 and upon reboot get the same "internal error" messages but at least it got installed.  Found the Software Sources folder and the Studio packages.  Installing now...
[11:46] <ghil> Hello people! just a quick question: I just installed Ubuntu studio, which is so far awesome, but would like to update to the latest XFCE. Will there be something preventing me from doing it, or would using the XFCE PPA be okay?
[11:58] <zequence> ghil: Just be aware that there's no official support for the PPA
[11:59] <zequence> More bugs, probably
[11:59] <ghil> oh that's completely okay, and of course I understand. I was just wondering if there where special conditions to look for when upgrading :D
[11:59] <zequence> The PPA will override whatever is in the official repositories
[12:00] <zequence> That's basically it
[12:00] <zequence> The packages in the PPA will override the ones in the official repositories, that is, if the version in the PPA is higher than in the official repo
[13:22] <yttamar> hi friends I'm starting on linux and am having a problem I have a firewire audio card 1814 the studio obuntu recognizes but does not exit the audio do not know how to set this guy jack audio server if someone can help me help thank'm tired of virus in windows !!!
[13:22] <yttamar> sou brasileiro
[13:23] <yttamar> someone?
[13:39] <yttamar> sorry! here no one helps anyone thanks to all !!!