[14:27] <cpaelzer> teward: if I might ask what do you think of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/distro-info/+bug/1862305 ?
[14:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 1862305 in Xenial Backports "distro-info in xenial backports needs a newer distro-info-data and versioned dependency" [Undecided, Won't Fix]
[14:31] <paride> @pilot in
[14:41] <teward> cpaelzer: i'll have to play catchup but email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with the request for our review / input.  backport team meeting is tomorrow so all three of us in backporters can chime in
[14:42] <cpaelzer> teward: my question is more, would you still take anything for xenial? before I prepare and it is wasted effort
[14:44] <teward> in my personal opinion, no, but i'm also not sure how the archives handle uploads to xenial-* still or if they just reject.
[14:46] <teward> we havent had this type of case show up though before
[14:46] <teward> so i'd still want to check with ddstreet and mapreri
[14:47] <teward>
[15:00] <lvoytek> @pilot in
[15:19] <guruprasad> paride, lvoytek, I have a follow-up question from my conversation here yesterday (https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2023/09/25/%23ubuntu-devel.html). The ipython source package is imported from Debian and used as-is in mantic. Since the same isse that I reported is in the Debian package as well, should I submit the fix to Debian first?
[15:20] <guruprasad> I am speaking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipython/+bug/2037286
[15:20] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2037286 in lptools (Ubuntu) "lp-shell ipython instance throws error when typing open parenthesis" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[15:20] <bdmurray> guruprasad: Not necessarily first as we are so close to the release of mantic but it should definitely be submitted to debian.
[15:21] <guruprasad> bdmurray, thanks!
[15:21] <bdmurray> So then at the start of N we can get back in sync with debian
[15:22] <guruprasad> This is my first time doing anything with Debian/Ubuntu packaging. Is https://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/fixing-a-bug.html#work-on-a-fix a place to refer for doing this?
[15:23] <guruprasad> Or the new version of the site at https://canonical-ubuntu-packaging-guide.readthedocs-hosted.com/en/latest/how-to/fixing-a-bug.html
[15:24] <bdmurray> Probably the new version but I do things the old-fashioned way
[15:25] <cpaelzer> teward: I've sent a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>so you can have a group discussion, thanks in advance
[15:32] <paride> guruprasad, hi, given that you are new to fixing Ubuntu packages, but not new to git development, I suggest following this: https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-maintainers-handbook/blob/main/PackageFixing.md
[15:33] <paride> guruprasad, that's a workflows that leverages git-ubuntu, a tool which is able to leverage Launchpad
[15:33] <paride> [...] leverage Launchpad's view of Ubuntu packages are git repositories
[15:34] <paride> *as* git repositories. (fat fingers moment -- sorry)
[15:35] <paride> guruprasad, however that document assumes some packaging knowledge. If you're totally new to it, I suggest moving one step back and learn how to download and build an existing package
[15:41] <guruprasad> paride, thanks for the useful pointers!
[15:50] <mapreri> cpaelzer: well, wasn't that the fault of whoever thought that adding columns to the csv in a stable update was a good idea?  That had to be fixed in a distro-info SRU long ago, not in bpo now....
[15:50] <mapreri> I don't even know if that helps anybody really.  /cc teward
[16:23] <cpaelzer> mapreri: it was fixed in a distro-info sru, just the backport is left behind
[16:28] <teward> cpaelzer: then i would purge the backport.  if it's already been SRU-fixed then the SRU should be 'superior' to the backport.
[16:28] <teward> (this is why i wanted to play catchup)
[16:29] <teward> mapreri: i don't think adding a newer version to backports would solve tis if the SRU has already fixed the problem.  In which case I should just poke AAs for removal.
[16:30] <teward> but that will require anyone using the backports version to do a manual downgrade
[16:30] <teward> since apt is picky about that
[16:33] <teward> cpaelzer: ^^ the only way to fix it if we remove backports version which is having this problem is that manual downgrade to what's in xenial-updates.  if there's no objection to that then we can poke the AAs for removal of the backport
[16:37] <mapreri> cpaelzer: ah, I see, I missed this part.
[16:37] <mapreri> teward: that would not fix systems that are currently running that.
[16:38] <teward> mapreri: correct.  but does it make sense to continue to do this in backports if SRU is already ahead?  Because Xenial is beyond standard support cycle this sounds like something that *should* be solved in ESM/pro
[16:38] <mapreri> cpaelzer: I think I would be fine, in this case, to backport what is currently in bionic-updates.
[16:38] <mapreri> which seems to be a bugfix-only update on top of what is currently in xenial-backports
[16:39] <teward> that's also an option
[16:39] <mapreri> all of this is assuming cpaelzer would prepare the update, of course :3
[16:39] <teward> :P
[16:39] <teward> and then we should probably *freeze* Xenial officially for that in -updates, etc. and any more Xenial updates need to go via pro/esm
[16:40] <teward> (my opinion)
[16:40] <mapreri> teward: In my mind, xenial is already in that state, this is already an exception handling to me.
[16:40] <teward> mapreri: then is there a reason we don't do this 'backport' of the higher version in Pro/ESM which would override -backports entirely?
[16:41] <teward> anyone still using Xenial without pro/esm is "frozen" then if we adopt this logic
[16:41] <mapreri> teward: how do I check what's in ESM?  LP in xenial is only showing lower versions.
[16:41] <teward> granted then we need Canonical to do the upload and intervene but still
[16:41] <teward> *burps a xenial box into existence*
[16:42] <mapreri> ah, wait, I understand what you mean now.
[16:42] <teward> yeah standard uploaders don't have access to ESM/Pro, but Canonical engineers do
[16:42] <mapreri> but I don't see why.  it seems quite low effort to fix this in the regular xenial-backports to me (assuming lp allows for uploads still)
[16:42] <mapreri> and I don't see any benefits of hiding such trivial update behind a paywall…
[16:42] <teward> mapreri: does LP still allow such uploads?  I mean, I could prepare it (I need to exercise my upload privs more anyways) and test but
[16:43] <mapreri> just upload and see :P  but fwiw the xenial queue does have stuff in there from august this year, so it still might work.
[16:43] <teward> coffee reup first.
[16:43] <teward> *obtains more coffee from the unlimited coffee source aka the Keurig*
[16:49] <teward> gotta make sure this builds first so... *does a thing in local devel boxes*
[16:50]  * arraybolt3 pours coffee into the local dev box
[16:50] <arraybolt3> *vanishes back into hiding and observing*
[16:50] <teward> arraybolt3: nah, that goes into the coffee IV bags to go into my bloodstream :p
[16:50] <Eickmeyer> 😮
[16:51] <Eickmeyer> Sorry, just shocked every time I see arraybolt3 😁
[16:51] <teward> *rebuilt a Xenial chroot for sbuild to build things*
[16:51] <teward> cpaelzer: i'm nominating you to handle this, we also need to backport distro-info-data as well for this to work and alter the debhelper versioning in all the backported packages
[16:52] <teward> YOU can tell me if it uploads or not :p
[16:52] <arraybolt3> Eickmeyer: I still peek at what's going on :P Might come back around the beginning of the N cycle depending on how things go.
[16:52] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: It would be great having you back. 😄
[16:52] <teward> ^^ that
[16:52] <arraybolt3> :) thanks!
[16:56] <mapreri> teward: why the -data?  it should be fine regardless.   (and yes, also according to 0.18~ubuntu16.04.1 they had to reduce dh)
[16:57] <teward> mapreri: because i'm too lazy to alter the package :p
[16:57] <teward> i'll do that and see if i can make it work
[16:57] <teward> mapreri: though, it build-deps on the higher version
[17:07] <paride> @pilot off
[17:07] <paride> @pilot out
[17:07] <paride> :-)
[17:08] <teward> mapreri: got it to compile.  Obvious lintian explodes but.
[17:08] <Eickmeyer> Ever since I got my pilot license 20 years ago, I haven't been able to pilot off paride. 😁
[17:08] <arraybolt3> @pilot shutdown now?
[17:09] <teward> fun discovery: "Unsupported release: xenial" according to dput-ng
[17:09] <Eickmeyer> 😂
[17:09] <teward> that uses distro-info though so
[17:12] <cjwatson> hopefully it has some kind of force option.  LP should accept it happily enough.
[17:13] <tumbleweed> yeah, you can delete the supported-distribution hook from /etc/dput.d/metas/ubuntu.json
[17:13] <teward> tumbleweed: i'll clone that to ubuntu-old :P
[17:13] <teward> thanks
[17:14] <paride> arraybolt3,
[17:14] <paride> arraybolt3,  nowdays pilotctl poweroff :P
[17:15] <Eickmeyer> 😂
[17:18] <teward> tumbleweed: yep separate profile and ubuntu-old target seemed to work and bypass the supported-distro hook
[17:18] <teward> uploaded but lets see if it rejects
[17:20] <teward> mapreri: cpaelzer: looks like LP accepted xenial-backports and waits for approval.  I test-built against non-backports environment to make sure the file works as is so we can probably ACK it from the queue and let it build and see what happens and fix any unexpected FTBFS or such that comes up
[17:20] <teward> mapreri: i'll let you ACK it here or just go in and approve yourself from the queue
[17:20] <teward> (if you ACK here and OK the upload I'll just handwave it in)
[17:23] <arraybolt3> paride: You could turn that into a running joke - pilotctl kexec to replace the current pilot, pilotctl enable to add a new authorized pilot, pilotctl mask to ban someone from the channel...
[17:23] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3: That'd be up to Unit193. :)
[17:40] <paride> Unit193, I'll take the occasion to say hi!
[19:05] <lvoytek> @pilot out
[21:06] <teward> ddstreet: mapreri: distro-info backport in the queue for one of you to accept, unless you just want me to handwave it through
[21:06] <teward> (xenial-backports)
[22:25] <Unit193> paride: Hello!


[02:47] <infinity> lamont: dapper had a .1 and a .2!
[02:47] <infinity> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/
[03:39] <bzoltan_> nacc: apt let me install both together as it installs the ubuntu-html5-container:armhf alone too... only thing it bails out on is to handle the dependency when i installubuntu-sdk-libs:armhf
[03:46] <lamont> infinity: I was looking at meta-release-lts
[03:47] <infinity> lamont: Yeah, it's full of lies because it post-dates dapper.
[03:47] <lamont> heh
[10:23] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Thanks. Looks like it works :-) ^^^
[11:42] <ogra_> chpasswd: (user ubuntu) pam_chauthtok() failed, error:
[11:42] <ogra_> Authentication token manipulation error
[11:42] <ogra_> chpasswd: (line 1, user ubuntu) password not changed
[11:42] <ogra_> E: config/hooks/01-setup_user.chroot failed (exit non-zero). You should check for errors.
[11:43] <ogra_> infinity, did anything change in the xenial archive tonight that isnt on xenial-changes ? i could build xenial images 14h ago ... now it fails in chpassword without any changes in that area
[11:45] <ogra_> (for snappy that is)
[13:07] <ogra_> the only thing i see changed in the archive is lamont's bind9 upload ... but it is beyond me how that could make chpasswd fail
[13:10] <lamont> ogra_: hostname resolution is littered everywhere.  having said that, the change in bind9 was restoring some code in the SHUTDOWN path for bind9 so that it quit throwing an assertion
[13:10] <lamont> so yeah, confusing
[13:10] <lamont> there's also a goodly number of different packages seeing this:
[13:10] <lamont> Processing triggers for mime-support (3.59ubuntu1) ...
[13:10] <lamont> dpkg: error processing package language-selector-common (--configure):
[13:10] <ogra_> hmm, does chpasswd use the hostname in any way ?
[13:10] <lamont> package language-selector-common is already installed and configured
[13:10] <lamont> ogra_: nfc
[13:10] <ogra_> i wouldnt expect it to
[13:11] <lamont> right.  sudo? not surprisingly, does.
[13:11] <ogra_> no sudo in image builds :)
[13:12]  * lamont needs to step away
[15:02] <ogra_> cjwatson, did anything with the LP buildds change tonight ? (i cant build xenial images anymore ... over night with no changes in the area THAT MAKE IT FAIL)
[15:02] <ogra_> EEK
[15:03] <ogra_> silly caps
[15:03] <cyphermox> don't know who did that, but thanks ^
[15:04] <cyphermox> seb128:  (that was about NM) ^
[15:04] <Laney> cyphermox: did you upload that ubiquity change yet?
[15:04] <seb128> cyphermox, happyaron is working on those, I'm doing the sponsoring ;-)
[15:05] <cyphermox> Laney: no, it's not uploaded, but I will soon
[15:05] <Laney> rockin'
[15:05] <cyphermox> it's not like it will make a difference for now.
[15:05] <cyphermox> oh, otoh people could update ubiquity on the live cd... :/
[15:05] <Laney> people would be able to use dailies
[15:06] <Laney> not sure those exist yet though
[15:06] <cyphermox> yeah
[15:06] <cyphermox> well for yakkety I'm doing d-i merges now
[15:06] <cyphermox> console-setup right now, and most of them will need a ubiquity update anyway
[15:06] <Laney> xenial dailies I mean
[15:06] <Laney> but y too
[15:09] <cyphermox> I will upload it now
[15:10] <Laney> what a beauty you are
[15:14] <cyphermox> why thank you mon petit pois
[15:17] <infinity> ogra_: No idea what's up with your image building woes.
[15:19] <ogra_> infinity, yeah, i'm pretty lost ... there was a minor change in live-build/auto/config (to install u-boot-tools on all arches) ... that built last night just fine ... since this morning all builds fail ... in deparation i already tried a rolled back bind9 in the PPA and now i'm trying a build with all PPA packages removed ...
[15:19] <ogra_> all show the same chpasswd error
[15:20] <ogra_> pretty much out of the blue
[15:20]  * infinity cocks his head sideways at this log.
[15:20] <infinity> + sed -i /^ubuntu/d /etc/passwd
[15:20] <infinity> + sed -i /^ubuntu/d /etc/shadow
[15:20] <infinity> ogra_: If you're deleting the user, how do you expect chpasswd to work?
[15:21] <ogra_> it is added to the nss-extrausers files ... note that no char in this code has changed in over a year
[15:21] <ogra_> and the same hook is used on the phone images
[15:22] <infinity> Ahh, kay.
[15:23] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16127540/
[15:23] <infinity> I see no immediate reason why your world would have exploded.
[15:23] <ogra_> thats the only change in livecd-rootfs
[15:23] <ogra_> infinity, me neither, thats what bothers me so much ... :)
[15:23] <ogra_> how can chpasswd break without any changes ...
[15:23] <infinity> ogra_: You want *all* arches to have u-boot-tools?  Really?
[15:24] <ogra_> yes
[15:24] <infinity> ogra_: How or why is it being used on x86 or ppc?
[15:24] <ogra_> intel edison seemingly uses uboot
[15:24] <infinity> Fair enough.
[15:25] <infinity> And, indeed, embedded ppc machines often do too.
[15:25] <ogra_> in any case there is no reason why that change should break chpasswd all of a sudden
[15:25] <infinity> Still, I'd expect kernel snaps to come pre-tooled.
[15:25] <infinity> No, that change should be harmless indeed.
[15:25] <ogra_> not for the roolback bits
[15:26] <ogra_> we need to modify some bootloader vars from userspace if boot fails
[15:26] <cyphermox> infinity: could you obliterate this console-setup? ^ it should have been for yakkety
[15:26] <infinity> cyphermox: Sure.
[15:26] <cyphermox> ta
[15:26] <ogra_> on uboot we use fw_setenv ... on grub grub-editenv for that
[15:27] <ogra_> the change just seeds fw_setenv
[15:28] <ogra_> hmm, how long does it take tile a package deletion in a PPA goes active .... seems i'm still getting the PPA livecd-rootfs
[15:28] <ogra_> (trying to roll back the PPA completely, just to make sure its not anything in there)
[15:29] <infinity> I see no livecd-rootfs in the PPA Packages file (which I just downloaded)
[15:29] <infinity> But man, there's a lot of other crap in here.
[15:29] <infinity> Like gccgo and systemd.
[15:30] <ogra_> all outdated
[15:30] <ogra_> ubuntu-core-config, ubuntu-snappy, squashfs-tools and initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core are the only relveant ones
[15:31] <ogra_> and the only one with recent changes is initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core
[15:31] <ogra_> everything else has been there yestzerday too
[15:31] <ogra_> ok, if livecd-rootfs is finally gone let me trigger another build ...
[15:32] <ogra_> Preparing to unpack .../livecd-rootfs_2.408_amd64.deb ...
[15:32] <ogra_> Unpacking livecd-rootfs (2.408) ...
[15:33] <ogra_> ah, finally
[15:33] <ogra_> it is really annoying that packages you delete are immediately gone from the LP UI ... cheating me into thinking i can build :P
[15:37] <ogra_> infinity, still failing
[15:38] <ogra_> infinity, did anything else in the archve change beyond bind9 ?
[15:38] <infinity> Kay, not surprising, since I couldn't see how your PPA would be breaking it.
[15:38] <infinity> But I also can't see how updates would be.
[15:38] <ogra_> right, just wanted to makes sure we can exclude that
[15:38] <infinity> ogra_: xenial-changes looks accurate to me.
[15:38] <ogra_> k
[15:38] <ogra_> well, *something* changed that breaks it
[15:39] <ogra_> build root behavior changes ? setup changes ?
[15:39] <infinity> Oh, bah.  Your rebuilds knocked the successful builds off the page.
[15:39] <infinity> Do you have a successful log?
[15:39] <ogra_> yes :(
[15:40] <ogra_> not handy, no
[15:40] <ogra_> take a yakkety one
[15:40]  * infinity goes digging in cdimage logs.
[15:41] <ogra_> (yakkety builds still fine btw, i tested that)
[15:41] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/xenial/ubuntu-core-system-image/+build/59382
[15:41] <infinity> That's the last success, I'm guessing.
[15:41] <ogra_> yeah, last night
[15:43] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16127953/ is the code in question
[15:44] <nacc> bzoltan_: very strange! I'm not sure why that would be
[15:45] <infinity> @@ -1039,7 +1039,7 @@
[15:45] <infinity>    libgnutls-openssl27 libgnutls30 libklibc liblockfile-bin liblockfile1
[15:45] <infinity>    libnewt0.52 libnl-3-200 libnl-genl-3-200 libp11-kit0 libpng12-0 libslang2
[15:45] <infinity>    libssl1.0.0 libtasn1-6 linux-base lockfile-progs logrotate net-tools
[15:45] <infinity> -  netcat-openbsd sudo ubuntu-core-config ucf udev vim-common vim-tiny whiptail
[15:45] <infinity> +  netcat-openbsd sudo ucf udev vim-common vim-tiny whiptail
[15:45] <infinity>  Suggested packages:
[15:45] <infinity> ogra_: So, that's the only meaningful diff I see in the logs.  ubuntu-core-config isn't being installed anymore.
[15:45] <ogra_> uuuh
[15:45] <ogra_> why would that be
[15:46] <infinity> (Well, and livecd-rootfs versions, but we've established that's probably not an issue)
[15:47] <bzoltan_> nacc:  my best guess is that there was  some black magic casted on that package... anyhow, my workaround is to explicitly install that dependency with the meta package what should pull it. Ugly hack, but does the job.
[15:47] <nacc> bzoltan_: ok -- if i find time, i will try and reproduce it
[15:47] <infinity> ogra_: Because initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core also isn't being installed anymore, and that's what pulled it in.
[15:47] <ogra_> infinity, heh ... task header missing in ubuntu-core-config in the PPA i guess
[15:48] <ogra_> same for the initramfs packages
[15:48] <infinity> ogra_: Ahh, is this the first time those have been in the PPA?
[15:48] <ogra_> but that still doesnt explain why chpasswd would fail ... i dont think we touch anything in that area from either of these packages
[15:48] <ogra_> infinity, no, but core has no meta ... we only have tasks
[15:49] <ogra_> if they go to the PPA and you dont hack the task into the control file they are completely ignored ... funnily it is recognized that the archive version is outdated though ... so we end up with no package installed
[15:49] <infinity> ogra_: Well, those are the only two package differences I see in the log, other than your livecd-rootfs.
[15:50] <ogra_> but still ... that shouldnt influence chpasswd
[15:50] <ogra_> argh
[15:50] <cjwatson> ogra_: No builder changes.
[15:50] <ogra_> it should !
[15:51] <infinity> Well, and the bind9 libs, but given the bind9 fix was in the daemon, seems unlikely it would have miscompiled the libs on all arches. :P
[15:51]  * ogra_ finds a pam config file in ubuntu-core-config
[15:51] <infinity> Ah-ha.
[15:51] <ogra_> oh my
[15:51] <infinity> ogra_: Okay, mystery solved.  You're welcome.
[15:51] <infinity> ogra_: Also, diffing logs is super handy when trying to answer questions like this.  For future reference.
[15:51] <ogra_> ok, fixing the task header harder
[15:52] <ogra_> infinity, thanks so much ... i'll try to remember next time
[15:53] <doko> infinity, trying to install libcgal-qt5-dev on rugby/yakkety-armhf, ... the package is not seen there in version
[15:53] <doko> $ apt-cache showsrc libcgal-qt5-dev | grep ^Version
[15:53] <doko> Version: 4.8-3
[15:53] <doko> $ apt-cache show libcgal-qt5-dev | grep ^Version
[15:53] <doko> Version: 4.7-4
[15:53] <doko> in the release pocket ...
[16:00] <infinity> doko: ftpmaster agrees.  Curious.
[16:01]  * infinity copies cgal over itself.
[16:02] <infinity> Erm, wait.
[16:02] <infinity> No.
[16:03] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cgal/4.8-3/+build/9639663
[16:03] <infinity> doko: It's gone NBS on armhf (along with a couple of other binaries)
[16:03] <doko> ohh
[16:03] <infinity> That feels like a mistake.
[16:04] <infinity> +cgal (4.8-2) unstable; urgency=medium
[16:04] <infinity> +
[16:04] <infinity> +  * Fix FTBFS on armel and armhf caused by missing OpenGL ES support in CGAL
[16:05] <infinity> +    (and libQGLViewer). Stop building libcgal-qt5-11 and libcgal-qt5-dev on
[16:05] <infinity> +    armel and armhf.
[16:05] <LocutusOfBorg> yes, nto a mistake
[16:05] <infinity> +
[16:05] <LocutusOfBorg> just removed
[16:05] <infinity> + -- Joachim Reichel<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Fri, 22 Apr 2016 16:54:32 +0200
[16:05] <infinity> libcgal-qt5-dev has reverse build-depends.  So, that needs cleaning up.
[16:06] <doko> ok, removing prepair and pprepair binaries
[16:07] <doko> ovito and openscad too
[16:09] <infinity> NBS binaries removed.
[16:27] <LocutusOfBorg> whoever did setup the json-c tracker
[16:28] <LocutusOfBorg> it isn't working
[16:28] <LocutusOfBorg> https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/auto-json-c.html
[16:28] <LocutusOfBorg> can you please copy ben from here?
[16:29] <LocutusOfBorg> not sure what is wrong, maybe you need also the -dev packages?
[16:33] <infinity> I'll fix it up.
[16:36] <infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Done.
[16:36] <infinity> Err, or I clashed with someone else.
[16:36] <infinity> Now done. :P
[16:36] <LocutusOfBorg> yes, doko fixed it
[16:36]  * LocutusOfBorg wrote that on devel
[17:49] <jgrimm> infinity, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid   still in "Supported" status.. should be marked "Obsolete" as EOL'd?
[18:57] <infinity> jgrimm: There are unfortunate reasons why we can't close it just yet.
[18:57] <infinity> jgrimm: So, yes it should be Obsolete, but LP can't say that.
[18:58] <jgrimm> infinity, heh. no worries,minor thing just wanted to mention in case not realized
[18:59] <infinity> jgrimm: Well aware. :)
[19:00] <jgrimm> :)
[19:43] <alex-abreu> balloons, ping
[19:44] <balloons> alex-abreu, pong
[19:44] <alex-abreu> balloons, wondering if you have the powers to re trigger a britney run ...
[19:45] <balloons> alex-abreu, no magic powers there I'm afraid
[19:45] <alex-abreu> balloons, ah ... is there someone that does ? :)
[19:45] <balloons> a hard proposition at this hour on a Friday :-)
[19:45] <alex-abreu> balloons, indeed
[19:45] <balloons> off the top, I can't think of anyone still around
[19:46] <alex-abreu> balloons, are you acquainted w/ britney's error messages?
[19:46] <balloons> alex-abreu, I would say in general no
[19:46] <alex-abreu> balloons, ok thank you :)
[19:48] <slangasek> alex-abreu: what are you trying to retrigger?
[19:49] <alex-abreu> slangasek, this ci request that apparently generated false positives' results for britney ... (i am not sure about it though but i cannot make sense ofthe error messages), https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1056
[19:50] <slangasek> alex-abreu: what do you see that's a false positive? What I see is britney saying that you're making packages uninstallable
[19:51] <slangasek> alex-abreu: you have a package webapps-demo-click that depends on a package named qtdeclarative5-hud1.0, which only exists in trusty
[19:51] <alex-abreu> slangasek, that's why i am saying that I am sure about what the diagnostic, ... could you point me to the failure since I dont see where it is
[19:52] <slangasek> webapps-demo-click/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: webapps-demo
[19:52] <alex-abreu> slangasek, ah ...
[19:52] <slangasek> webapps-demo-click/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: qtdeclarative5-hud1.0
[19:52] <slangasek> Not considered
[19:53] <alex-abreu> slangasek, mmmh thank you ...
[20:52] <pitti> PSA: I have to rebuild http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com
[20:52] <pitti> (this only affects the web presentation, not the test machinery and britney)


[20:14] <nacc> haasn: i believe the zfsonlinux folks have documented how to do it, but note not supported
[20:14] <yao_ziyuan> o, by right-clicking, it shows up the popup menu too!
[20:14] <yao_ziyuan> i think this is a progress.
[20:14] <yao_ziyuan> now i can open a terminal window from the popup menu.
[20:15] <OerHeks> alt-f2 gnome-terminal, or ctrl alt t
[20:15] <yao_ziyuan> instead of pressing ctrl+alt+f1 to go to a text window.
[20:15] <yao_ziyuan> but still, the unity interface doesn't show up.
[20:15] <yao_ziyuan> i'm like without any window manager and unity UI elements
[20:16] <OerHeks> if the unity interface is down, it is a ccsm plugin issue..
[20:16] <OerHeks> disabled, that is
[20:16] <MonkeyDust> yao_ziyuan  logout and switch to a different UI ... i guess flashback is available too
[20:17] <yao_ziyuan> i just ran: unity
[20:17] <yao_ziyuan> it says:
[20:17] <yao_ziyuan> unity-panel-service stop/waiting
[20:17] <yao_ziyuan> unity 7 stop/waiting
[20:17] <yao_ziyuan> unity 7 start/running, process 2141
[20:17] <yao_ziyuan> unity-panel-service start/running, process 2140
[20:17] <yao_ziyuan> but i still don't see any unity elements
[20:18] <yao_ziyuan> still without any window manager.
[20:18] <MonkeyDust> yao_ziyuan  can you logout and switch your DE? then work from there
[20:18] <yao_ziyuan> ok, maybe i should install another desktop environment for now.
[20:18] <yao_ziyuan> but i'm afraid another desktop environment will corrupt my clean ubuntu installation.
[20:19] <OerHeks> yao_ziyuan, you corrupted it yourself, no?
[20:19] <yao_ziyuan> OerHeks: blame this xps 8900 with all the new stuff that isn't friendly to ubuntu.
[20:20]  * yao_ziyuan is considering running ubuntu installation again
[20:21] <yao_ziyuan> by running 'unity', i can temporarily see unity's UI, but it immediately disappears after that.
[20:21] <yao_ziyuan> i guess it's still a video driver problem.
[20:21] <yao_ziyuan> what's the command line to get me a generic video driver?
[20:23] <penrod> greetings, has anyone had any success installing the letsencrypt certificates ?
[20:23] <yao_ziyuan> specifically, what's the package to install that graphical tool that let's me install additional drivers?
[20:23] <Foloex> hello world
[20:24] <Foloex> is there a greeter out there that acts as a VNC client ?
[20:25] <yao_ziyuan> got it: software-properties-gtk.
[20:25] <yao_ziyuan> now i'm reverting all proprietary drivers to default ones.
[20:28] <Foloex> I'm trying to a system that only provides a VNC client
[20:28] <Foloex> *build
[20:28] <yao_ziyuan> now it seems both nvidia's and ubuntu's open source nvidia driver fail to work for me
[20:30] <yao_ziyuan> i think i should test some live cds and install one that works.
[20:31] <valvin> hi there, i am using a dell e7440 with intel wifi 8260 on which i am having troubble. wifi is working but i have a lot of "invalid misc". do you know if there is a known problem on this hardware ? thanks :)
[20:33] <fedor> hi, how to check package dependencies before install via apt-get install -y somepack
[20:34] <compdoc> bad idea to use -y
[20:34] <fedor> ok
[20:34] <tgm4883> ...
[20:34] <fedor> but how to check
[20:34] <tgm4883> fedor: don't use -y
[20:34] <fedor> without install
[20:35] <fedor> yes it show all dependencies before install if I do not use -y
[20:35] <fedor> but is there a way like
[20:35] <fedor> apt-cache search pack
[20:35] <fedor> apt-cache dependencies package
[20:35] <tgm4883> 'apt-cache show package'
[20:35] <fedor> ok
[20:37] <fedor> tgm4883: thanks, that is it.
[20:37] <LinuxGuy2020> Hello I am really interested in these "new" snap packages, and am wondering if there is a straight forward way to make my own snaps from a deb that is already installed or available in the repositories. Is there a guide specific to this or a converter available yet? I've already looked at the snapcraft documentation and its cryptic at best.
[20:38] <fedor> and if I have only the source to compile
[20:38] <fedor> without documentation
[20:39] <tgm4883> fedor: get the documentation?
[20:39] <fedor> is there a way to check before or just trying when install will show if is needed dependencies
[20:39] <fedor> no without doc
[20:40] <tgm4883> fedor: no, unless someone has already documented somewhere the dependencies, then compiling software with no documentation is going to be trial and error
[20:41] <tgm4883> I mean, you could go through the source code and figure out all the dependencies that way too
[20:49] <peyam> hi. Does anybody know How i can make such "images" n my terminal? http://www.everbot.com/images/ArchLinuxTerminal02.png
[20:49] <peyam> the arch sign
[20:51] <yao_ziyuan> here's my newest situation:
[20:51] <yao_ziyuan> i booted my brand new xps 8900 with a ubuntu 16.04 live cd, and when it started the graphical ui, it keeps flashing a dialog box saying there is an 'internal error', 'do you want to send report to canonical?'
[20:51] <yao_ziyuan> so it's obviously related to the video driver the live cd was using.
[20:52] <yao_ziyuan> then i booted with a ubuntu 15.10 live cd. this time everything is ok!
[20:52] <peyam> yao_ziyuan, tluciffid yrev si siht
[20:52] <yao_ziyuan> so it seems ubuntu 15.10 supports my nvidia video card out of the box.
[20:52] <peyam> that internet error happens all the time. just ignore it if doesnt do anything else
[20:53] <peyam> cool
[20:53] <tgm4883> peyam: https://itsfoss.com/display-linux-logo-in-ascii/
[20:54] <k1l> !info screenfetch | peyam
[20:54] <yao_ziyuan> but i hate ubuntu 15.10 as it's outdated
[20:54] <peyam> thanks
[20:55] <yao_ziyuan> dilemma. you have to choose the latest version that works for you.
[20:55] <yao_ziyuan> anyone succeeded in installing ubuntu 16.04 on dell xps 8900?
[20:55] <Zta> So... is it worth upgrading from 14.04 to 16.04?  I mean including all the hazzle of backing up data, restoring data, restoring configuration, reinstalling apps and all...
[20:56] <Tegu> you should back up data anyway :) (but yea I'm on the same situation)
[20:56] <peyam> k1l, do you know how screenfetch can be run every time I open a terminal?
[20:56] <peyam> do I have to modify .bashrc?
[20:58] <peyam> nm. just added screenfetch at the very end of .bashrc
[20:59] <XMLnewbi> ok, why the hell does ubuntu.com not have an SSL?
[21:00] <XMLnewbi> you are sersouly telling everyone to download binarys from a site with no ssl and trust your entire life works on it?
[21:00] <XMLnewbi> I dont even see checksums on the site
[21:00] <Fiki> does anybody know how to solve this problem with pip on Ubuntu 16.04: http://pastebin.com/v9VtcKFn
[21:00] <MonkeyDust> !checksum | XMLnewbi
[21:02] <XMLnewbi> https://letsencrypt.org/  wow, and most beginers have no idea how to do. that is like a 5 page doc written for devs
[21:03] <erkules> ahoi is there a commandline tool to use seccomp? like capsh for capabilities?
[21:03] <XMLnewbi> so easy for me to make a ubuntu.com clone and push people there and get them to download and run malware
[21:03] <MonkeyDust> XMLnewbi  this is the support channel, do you have an ubuntu related question
[21:03] <MonkeyDust> XMLnewbi  take discussion and opinions to #ubuntu-offtopic
[21:03] <dax> i swear there was a bug on Launchpad about this
[21:04] <XMLnewbi> lol, im going to just tell people to use fedora or mint
[21:04] <dax> lol mint
[21:04] <Pici> er.. okay.
[21:05] <bpmv> Есть кто говорит по русски?
[21:05] <MonkeyDust> !ru
[21:15] <xubuntu95w> Hi guys, I have a problem with Xubuntu and Ubuntu Mate installation from a bootable USB Drive and a DVD. No matter which one I choose it doesn't go through the "Boot from CD/DVD" or just hangs with the underscore. Downloaded twice already, created bootable USB with both Rufus and Unetbootin, the DVD and USB works on a diferrent, newer PC, any thoughts?
[21:16] <Foloex> I'm trying to specify a lightdm configuration but I feels like lightdm ignores my /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf file, any idea how fix that ?
[21:17] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:   anything on the "underscore" prompt?   like login text maybe?
[21:18] <xubuntu95w> bprompt, nothing at all
[21:19] <TreeTree> Hey I have a question. I submitted a bug a month ago and it's been pretty much abandoned. Well not officially but there's nothing going on there. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1591439
[21:19] <TreeTree> How long do I have to wait until something will be done?
[21:19] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:   alrite.. try typing at the "underscore", -> live <--- just that, see if it goes in
[21:20] <xubuntu95w> bprompt: Can't type, it's just this blank loading underscore
[21:21] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:  what about pressing Esc? anything?
[21:22] <xubuntu95w> bprompt: no response whatsoever, whenever i try to boot, the disk spins for 15 sec and stops without anything happening
[21:23] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:   the disk? thought you were doing a liveusb bootup?
[21:23] <xubuntu95w> bprompt: Tried both, though I can actually know something's happening when it physically moves rather than a USB
[21:25] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:    so, you're saying, the usb does boot with xubuntu/ubuntu, and it installs to the hdd, but the hdd installation is coming to an "underscore"?
[21:26] <xubuntu95w> bprompt: No, not at all, it doesn't boot, it doesn't even load anything, never seen a Ubuntu logo on this computer
[21:27] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:    so the liveusb session works though?
[21:28] <xubuntu95w> bprompt: Nothing works, nothing boots
[21:29] <xubuntu95w> I could install Windows - not a problem there, just Ubuntu doesnt seem like loading any files at all
[21:30] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:    I'd think the writing of the iso. didn't go well, and yes, I read you used Rufus and unetbooting.... hmmm dunno, I  use "dd" to just simply raw-write it
[21:30] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:   you're in windows, right?
[21:31] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:   I mean, in windows trying to burn the (x)ubuntu iso
[21:31] <xubuntu95w> bprompt: Yup, trying to install some lightweight Ubuntu onto an older machine
[21:32] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:    try doing a raw-write of the iso to a usb stick with win32 disk imager -> https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/ <--- it's just a small standalone .exe, and all it does, is raw writes whatever file you give it, to whatever device
[21:33] <bprompt> xubuntu95w:  I've heard of many folks using Rufus and happy with it, but can't vouch for it myself, on what it may be doing or adding besides the burning
[21:34] <xubuntu95w> bprompt: Allright, gonna try that
[21:35] <tgm4883> bprompt: I think it's safe enough to recommend Rufus
[21:36] <bprompt> tgm4883:   well, I've heard good of it, I think I used it once, I recall added a label to the iso, did more than just burning IIRC
[21:36] <tgm4883> bprompt: it's the official recommended way to burn to USB via windows
[21:36] <tgm4883> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows
[21:37] <bprompt> tgm4883:     alrite.... well... .then it's good, I just can't quite vouch for  it enough to say, it isn't it at the issue, may just be a subtle matter
[21:44] <Foloex> is there something to do to enable remote-login beside setting "greeter-show-remote-login" to "true" ?
[21:44] <Foloex> (in lightdm)
[22:05] <didrik> HI
[22:05] <xubuntu56w> bprompt: Nothing changed
[22:07] <bprompt> hmmm
[22:08] <bprompt> xubuntu56w:     how fast is the cpu on that "older" machine?   is it a single-core?
[22:08] <bprompt> xubuntu56w:    smells like it's a BIOS issue
[22:08] <bprompt> xubuntu56w:     wondering if it supports usb bootup
[22:09] <xubuntu56w> bprompt: It's an Intel Pentium 4 with HT
[22:11] <OerHeks> p4 .. use the 32 bit mini iso
[22:11] <bprompt> xubuntu56w:   pentium?    maan.. so.. .we're looking at  1.1ghz I assume?   hmmm so.. I suspect the bios may not do usb booting, thus, check its bios/setup/cmos to see what options it has under "boot sequence" for booting devices, it may do usb, but some may require the usb stick to be plugged in before booting, and others, you need to plug in the usb stick, then go to setup to select it as device to boot from
[22:12] <xubuntu56w> bprompt: It's a 3.0 ghz
[22:12] <bprompt> xubuntu56w:   but yes, as OerHeks said, 16.04 ubuntu or xubuntu or even lubuntu, would be a bit more overhead that it may prefer
[22:13] <OerHeks> lubuntu/openbox i guess
[22:13] <bprompt> xubuntu56w:   and also, it'd be a single-core, 32bit cpu, so, you'll need the 32bit iso, assuming you're not burning the 64bit iso
[22:15] <bprompt> xubuntu56w:    but hmmm, I'd give a shot to 14.04, but chances are, 12.04 would run better, so... depends on what you need the machine for, just for video playback or office docs or reading books
[22:24] <tgm4883> FWIW, it could be 64-bit capable
[22:25] <vivid> so i have installed a service/daemon and i have set it to enabled using 'systemctl enable service' but still, when i reboot i must always manually start the service.  is there some step to automatically starting service on boot that i am missing?
[22:26] <tgm4883> vivid: have you checked the applications logs to confirm it's not actually starting at boot?
[22:26] <xubuntu56w_> bprompt: Shit, this internet... but, it seems to have started working, a tiny bit, thanks for your help!
[22:26] <vivid> no i just issue 'systemctl status service' to see that its enabled but 'Active: inactive (dead)'
[22:27] <vivid> systemctl start service starts it up, everything functions, no errors.  im a bit confused
[22:27] <tgm4883> vivid: what application? I'd still check it's logs to see if it's trying to start at boot and failing
[22:27] <bprompt> np
[22:28] <vivid> let me see if i can find something under /var/logs
[22:29] <vivid> the daemon is ratbagd, dbus interface for libratbag3
[22:39] <dax> "inactive (dead)" sounds like it tried to start and then died
[22:41] <OerHeks> fresh kernel update http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/
[22:43] <Your_Dog> that reminds me.. im still using the 3.2 kernel.. aff
[23:06] <count> heyho
[23:06] <count> are there any known issue with Xenial server, where the keyboard input stops working (while console switching still works) and the network stacks also seems to stop working in userspace?
[23:06] <count> having the issue reliably with kernels 4.4.0-28 and earlier from the release, also tried 3.19.0-61 with the same result
[23:06] <count> somehow feels like a weird userspace issue affecting daemons, e.g. ssh and getty are stopping working. nothing in the logs, nothing on the console.
[23:07] <ikonia> count: why are you saying userspace for networking
[23:08] <count> ikonia: because the stack up into the ssh-daemon seems to work, just the connection freezes after established
[23:08] <ikonia> count: ssh-daemon is not userspace,
[23:08] <count> ikonia: riiight
[23:10] <count> ikonia: sorry, but .. it most definitly is.
[23:10] <ikonia> no, it just has privilege seperation for user sessions
[23:10] <count> ikonia: it does not run in kernel memory ..
[23:11] <count> ikonia: uid 0 != ring 0 etc
[23:11] <ikonia> ahhh, apologies, missunderstood what you where saying
[23:11] <count> ikonia: phew. was slightly worried here for a moment :D
[23:11] <ikonia> count: explain the problem
[23:13] <count> ikonia: everything works as expected until it doesn't; ssh session stops accepting keypresses, new session gets established but doesn't finish key exchange, getty stops accepting input, numlock and console switching still works, nothing in console or other logs
[23:13] <count> ikonia: I'm pretty baffled and have seen a lot of issues before, but not that one
[23:14] <ikonia> count: that seems mental that the daemon still takes the connection but the keyexchange happens
[23:14] <ikonia> count: can you stract the client and server to see what state it's in and what it thinks it's doing
[23:15] <count> ikonia: like I said, the key exchange DOESN'T continue
[23:15] <count> ikonia: box is unresponsible from the outside and the console, no strace possible - that would be too easy ;)
[23:15] <count> ikonia: kflushd and such still seem to be working, there's disk activity
[23:16] <ikonia> count: thats most odd,
[23:16] <ikonia> count: what happens to existing sessions that are already open
[23:17] <dax> "ssh session stops accepting keypresses"
[23:18] <ikonia> ahh the existing one
[23:19] <ikonia> does the box still exist on the network at all ?
[23:20] <DaniKitten> why I can't play MIDI files?
[23:20] <count> dax: existing one
[23:21] <count> ikonia: yes, responds to ping and everything
[23:21] <count> ikonia: just any tcp stuff (didn't check udp) stops working
[23:21] <count> ikonia: same as anything that travels through the hid stack, I guess
[23:22] <ikonia> count: but yet the numlock key still works which also goes through the hid stack
[23:22] <count> ikonia: not sure. SysRq also works.
[23:22] <ikonia> count: certainly an interesting problem
[23:22] <count> ikonia: I remember that SysRq, console switching and numlock were special in some way
[23:23] <alumnol> no tengo sonido en huayra
[23:23] <count> ikonia: getty not taking characters despite numlock working was the first complete wtf for me
[23:23] <ikonia> count: did you say you had access to the console display ?
[23:23] <count> ikonia: yes, I could switch it. nothing in the logs.
[23:24] <count> ikonia: I event went so far to disable blanking and see whether anything was written there. nothing.
[23:24] <ikonia> count: I wonder, bounce the box, tail the syslog wait for the problem to happen, unplug/re-plug the keyboard, see if you get a a udev and hid event
[23:24] <count> ikonia: okay, I'll try that
[23:24] <count> ikonia: I'll also try raising the console log level
[23:24] <ikonia> count: just interesting to see what happens
[23:29] <count> might take a few hours for it to happen. thanks so far :)
[23:30]  * count shall be back with further information
[23:40] <TGVoid> My PC doesn't display anything after I click "Try Ubuntu"
[23:40] <TGVoid> I am using an AMD APU
[23:41] <DaniKitten> how many RAM do you have?
[23:41] <TGVoid> 8 gigs
[23:42] <DaniKitten> do you are running from a disc or a USB stick?
[23:42] <TGVoid> USB.  My monitor just goes to sleep
[23:47] <DaniKitten> usb 2.0 is a bit slow, you should try from SD card
[23:47] <dax> what.
[23:47] <TGVoid> I switched to 3.0
[23:47] <dax> SD cards are slower than USB 2.0, DaniKitten.
[23:48] <DaniKitten> I used SD HC card and was incredibly fast
[23:48] <DaniKitten> lated 1 minute
[23:48] <dax> and regardless, the solution to "my monitor goes to sleep on boot" is not "boot from a faster medium"
[23:48] <DaniKitten> delete the USB and reinstall
[23:48]  * dax sighs
[23:49] <dax> TGVoid: which AMD APU, and which version of Ubuntu?
[23:49] <DaniKitten> maybe the USB got corrupted
[23:49] <TGVoid> AMD A10-5800K on LTS 16.04
[23:49] <TGVoid> The USB worked fine a month ago
[23:49] <TGVoid> I didn't use it since
[23:50] <DaniKitten> well, reinstall the ISO again
[23:50] <DaniKitten> or burn it to a DVD
[23:50] <DaniKitten> a true DVD
[23:50] <dax> or don't and use the 'nomodeset' kernel parameter
[23:51] <TGVoid> How do I do that?
[23:51] <DaniKitten> I say support for physical problems, while dax say software or user problems
[23:51] <dax> It's been a while so I'm not 100% on the steps, but I think when the USB starts to boot, hit a keyboard key, then I think there's an Other Options button (F6?) and it's on that menu
[23:52] <hammer25> hey guys, what is the menu bar at the top of the unity desktop called?
[23:52] <dax> DaniKitten: I think this may be a case where you found a hammer and have decided that everything is a nail.
[23:52] <DaniKitten> something like Windows task bar but without the tasks
[23:52] <DaniKitten> it says quick info about the PC
[23:52] <DaniKitten> such battery, date and time
[23:53] <dax> hammer25: unity panel or just panel
[23:53] <dax> the icons on the right of the panel are called indicators
[23:53] <hammer25> dax: thank you. do you have any idea how modifiable it is? I'm trying to make something that displays weather in the panel using python
[23:54] <CodeMouse92> hammer25: 'my-weather-indicator' does exactly that
[23:54] <TGVoid> I selected "nomodeset" do I just click "Try Ubuntu" again?
[23:54] <dax> TGVoid: yes
[23:54] <dax> hammer25: what CodeMouse92 said. if you're looking to make your own, https://askubuntu.com/questions/42211/how-to-create-unity-indicators would be one start
[23:54] <CodeMouse92> hammer25: Link to '
[23:55] <TGVoid> "*ERROR* No UMS support in Radeon"
[23:55] <CodeMouse92> *Link to 'my-weather-indicator': https://launchpad.net/my-weather-indicator
[23:55] <dax> although, ugh, most of those links are out of date, thanks Canonical
[23:55] <CodeMouse92> hammer25: Worst case, you can just take apart my-weather-indicator and learn how they do it :P
[23:55] <dax> I guess. There used to be pages and stuff like the indicator API, I can't find them now >.>
[23:55] <dax> s/and/on/
[23:55] <TGVoid> It worked!
[23:56] <hammer25> thanks guys
[23:56] <TGVoid> How do I set the resolution to 1600x900? I don't have the option.
[23:56] <CodeMouse92> dax: One could always run the link through the good 'ol Wayback Machine...
[23:58] <TGVoid> Nevermind. Last thing, I have a corrupted drive image and I need a safe way to extract the files out of it
[23:59] <CodeMouse92> TGVoid: I use testdisk, personally.


[00:36] <aaditya> MarkDude: thanks!
[01:50]  * MarkDude is headed to DVLUG tonight
[01:50] <MarkDude> will be late- to avoid traffic
[01:51] <rww> MarkDude: I'm not, the heat is still annoying me
[01:55] <akk> It cooled down nicely down here in santa clara county.
[01:57] <MarkDude> It has cooled down here
[01:57] <MarkDude> Not too bad
[02:03] <grantbow> MarkDude: too bad, you missed a special guest
[02:12] <MarkDude> Who
[02:12]  * MarkDude is leaving now
[20:14] <MarkDude> Hiring in SF at Minted >> http://www.minted.com/jobs all sorts of stuff
[20:15] <MarkDude> pleia2,  ^^^
[20:15] <MarkDude> :D
[23:38] <rww> pleia2: (re: twitter) I came to the conclusion a while back that everything in California causes cancer.
[23:38] <pleia2> ignorance is bliss
[23:38] <pleia2> I think every single building has one of those signs too
[23:39] <rww> WARNING: The thought processes used for ignorance may contain thoughts known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.
[23:40] <pleia2> I think it went like this: "you know this prop will mean we need to put labels on EVERYTHING because our threshold for danger is so low, right" "it will be good for the lolz" voter: "dangerous chemicals?! I want to know about those!"
[23:40] <rww> Someone should do a study on how much money California's proposition system has cost in total.
[23:41] <pleia2> I think I read somewhere that props and other voter ammendments take up like 40% of the budget
[23:42] <pleia2> I wonder why we're in so much debt :)
[23:43] <pleia2> MJ made me read through all the voter stuff last time with him, it was the worst thing ever, it's very hard to be an informed voter here
[23:43] <pleia2> but I get to go to the cool #1 fire station in SF to vote, so voting is cool
[23:43] <akk> It is hard to read through all that stuff.
[23:44] <akk> I bet not 1% of voters do.
[23:44] <akk> And the official summary often differs quite a bit from what's actually in the text of the proposition.
[23:44] <rww> pleia2: apart from my usual blaming of all the politicians, I blame the "spend money on this!" and "freeze taxes on this!" propositions for a lot of our problems, yes
[23:44] <pleia2> not exaggerating, the booklets we got totalled about 200 pages
[23:45] <pleia2> plus all the junk we get from prop people and candidates
[23:45] <akk> That goes straight to recycling.
[23:45] <pleia2> yeah, here too
[23:45] <rww> None of my house is registered to vote (because we can't), so we don't get any of that :)
[23:46] <rww> i grab the booklets from the library and read them, though
[23:46] <pleia2> for fun?
[23:46] <rww> being able to rant about things is fun :P
[23:46] <pleia2> hehe