 Sigh.
[00:01] <Hash> Not only does it take out the driver, it makes it harder to even put a binary driver in there.
[00:02] <cbreak> works fine with ubuntu
[00:02] <cbreak> I use binary drivers from nvidia all the time on my servers
[00:03] <cbreak> because I care about performance, and I don't want to use the outdated drivers that sometimesship with ubuntu
[00:08] <murmel> Hash: i don't understand, what you are on about, first of all it's nvidia who puts you in this position, and then even blaming people who care about security. (which most linux users do). so if you want to build yourself an insecure one, find out how to install the driver. and I expect the same with other distros
[00:08] <murmel> additionally, nouveau works perfectly fine without any performance loss
[00:09] <Hash> It does not.
[00:09] <Hash> This is provable using games.
[00:09] <Hash> If you don't understand what I'm on about, the kindly take some time, think and ponder it over, and then get back with me.
[00:09] <murmel> I read what you typed
[00:09] <Hash> Nvidia isn't the one that removed the driver in favor of nouveau/security.
[00:09] <murmel> Hash: but ubuntu removed it because nvidia doesn't support it anymore
[00:09] <Hash> Debian did. Ubuntu sources from Debian.
 "i need 340" <- what kernel ?
[00:10] <oerheks> build it..  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jammy/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-340
[00:10] <Hash> Ubuntu didn't actively remove it. It followed Debian. Debian removed it.
[00:10] <enigma9o7[m]> nvidia-340 doesnt work with jammy or hwe kernel on old os
[00:10] <oerheks> and make a dkms
[00:10] <enigma9o7[m]> you needto use the weird version
[00:10] <enigma9o7[m]> patches version i mean
[00:10] <enigma9o7[m]> i use it, lemee find the ppa
[00:10] <Hash> I might have to go back down to 20.04
[00:10] <oerheks> driver ppa does not have it.
[00:10] <Hash> enigma9o7[m]: thanks
[00:11] <enigma9o7[m]> its needs a patch from kerbek 333 or sometone
[00:11] <murmel> Hash: everybody tells you that nvidia is at fault, and seems like you still don't believe it
[00:11] <enigma9o7[m]> sorry i drunk but ifind it just a min
[00:11] <Hash> murmel: everyone could be wrong.
[00:11] <Hash> And I could be right.
[00:11] <Hash> What exactly is nvidia's fault?
[00:12] <wez> enigma9o7[m]: 🍻
[00:12] <Hash> Can you quantify? All you said was, it's theri fault, it's their fault, without quantifying anything..
[00:12] <leftyfb> Hash: file a bug and move on. Or don't and move on. Good luck
[00:12] <oerheks> some hardware get phased out..
[00:12] <tomreyn> enigma9o7[m]: https://launchpad.net/~kelebek333/+archive/ubuntu/nvidia-legacy
[00:12] <murmel> Hash: nvidia doesn't support newer kernel versions, so how can you imagine should debian or ubuntu support that version? yes there are hacks to get it working
[00:13] <enigma9o7[m]> https://launchpad.net/%7Ekelebek333/+archive/ubuntu/nvidia-legacy
[00:13] <murmel> but as it implies, you don't know how long that will work (as a new kernel releases)
[00:13] <leftyfb> tomreyn: that's got "trust" written all over it :)
[00:13] <enigma9o7[m]> Yeah tom beat me damnit.
[00:14] <Hash> *sigh*
[00:14] <tomreyn> leftyfb: i did not mean to recommend anything ;)
[00:14] <enigma9o7[m]> For those of us with old gpu like that tho, its either use ppa, or use noveau.
[00:14] <enigma9o7[m]> I mean it'll be great if ubuntu were to support it but they're not.
[00:14] <Hash> You know what's even more infuriating or addingg insult to injury, when stuff like this happens, and the whole of the population jumps down a person's throat.
[00:14] <Hash> Use a new GPU! Nope. Out of the question.
[00:15] <Hash> Use nouveau, I can't because the performance objectively is terrible.
[00:15] <enigma9o7[m]> --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia
[00:15] <Hash> It works for somethings but not for others.
[00:15] <oerheks> xorg-modulepath-fix ... oh, you are bound to xorg, no wayland
[00:15] <Hash> enigma9o7[m]: amd has same issues.
[00:15] <Hash> These are not solutions to problems
[00:15] <leftyfb> Hash: file a bug and move on. Or don't and move on. Good luck
[00:15] <Hash> Oh, I'll just shun it. Or, I'll just do something else.
[00:15] <enigma9o7[m]> Yeah noveau sucks for me too btw.
[00:15] <oerheks> i run an amd 5450, fine...
[00:15] <oerheks> lolz
[00:15] <enigma9o7[m]> I use nvidia-340
[00:15] <oerheks> Client: HexChat 2.16.0 • OS: Ubuntu "jammy" 22.04 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz (800MHz) • Memory: Physical: 22,9 GiB Total (19,7 GiB Free) Swap: 2,0 GiB Total (2,0 GiB Free) • Storage: 1,0 TB / 4,1 TB (3,1 TB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cedar [Radeon HD 5000/6000/7350/8350 Series] @ Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 2d 8h 38m 58s
[00:16] <Hash> That's nouveau in 22
[00:16] <Hash> I might have to downgrade to 20
[00:16] <Hash> install a 22 chroot/container for application
[00:16] <leftyfb> Hash: there is no downgrade path, only a fresh install of a previous version
[00:16] <Hash> I don't know what else to do.
[00:16] <cbreak> Hash: I told you what to do
[00:16] <Hash> For 20 years in Debian I used stable, but with testing/sid chroots for package buldilng and latest software using
[00:16] <cbreak> get the drivers from nvidia
[00:17] <murmel> i thought you didn't want to use any debian based distro anymore as they don't support 340 anymore
[00:17] <Hash> man it's the firs ttim eI sen your nickname!
[00:17] <Hash> wow.
[00:17] <cbreak> they provide binary drivers in all supported versions
[00:17] <enigma9o7[m]> dont do that
[00:17] <Hash> yeah don't do that Hash
[00:17] <Hash> You already did that, Hash, and it didn't work.
[00:17] <leftyfb> Hash: file a bug and move on. Or don't and move on. Good luck
[00:17] <enigma9o7[m]> i my laptop is Nvidia GT216M [GeForce Gt 330m} so 340.108 works well for me.
[00:17] <oerheks> 20 years... but that card is 13 years old
[00:17] <enigma9o7[m]> dont install from nividia script no matter what you do, you'll cause yourself lotsa hassle
[00:18] <Hash> What I'll do is install ubuntu 20 in a diff disk
[00:18] <Hash> boot that, use nvidia, and record you a vide of game performance
[00:18] <enigma9o7[m]> and it wont work anyway
[00:18] <enigma9o7[m]> nivdida ofoficial only supports up to linux 5.4
[00:18] <Hash> Oh man, dude, homie bbro
[00:18] <Hash> diggity dude man sir home slice. I need nvidia or else my gaming suffers.
[00:18] <leftyfb> !ot | Hash
[00:19] <oerheks> noise in the channel
[00:19] <Hash> I'm going to ignore th ebot
[00:19] <cbreak> nvidia binary drivers are binary drivers. Only nvidia can maintain them properly
[00:19] <Hash> Whoever did that, you're on ignore. Okay>
[00:19] <enigma9o7[m]> The bot has useful info....
[00:19] <Hash> You don't get to tuse the bot to harass me as I ignored you. Dont' do that again.
[00:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Hash: Pretty sure you just ignored an operator.
[00:19] <Hash> I understand. Don't do it again.
[00:19] <cbreak> if nvidia doesn't support newer kernels, then no one else can properly do it either.
[00:19] <Hash> I don't care. I don't appreciate random harassment.
[00:19] <Hash> Please stop.
[00:20] <murmel> I really wonder what you do if he does it again
[00:20] <Hash> I'm already frustrated with an problem and I don't need people adding insult to injury and antagoniging me even more.
[00:20] <Hash> I told you, I will just ignore the bot.
[00:20] <Hash> anyway, this is not the dicussion I am trying to have.
[00:20] <enigma9o7[m]> What is the problem?
[00:20] <arraybolt3[m]> Nevermind, I was wrong. Sorry.
[00:20] <enigma9o7[m]> You've already been provided with info on the PPA to use nvidia-340 with current ubuntu, if you want to.
[00:20] <enigma9o7[m]> Yes, its not officially supportecd by canoncical, but it works, and your other option is noveau
[00:20] <Hash> I need to figure out the nvidia driver for 22 or else downgrade to 20
[00:20] <murmel> Hash: so you got all the options laid out. decide for yourself
[00:20] <enigma9o7[m]> It was linked earlier by me and tom.
[00:21] <Hash> enigma9o7[m]: so much traffic going fast I did not see the ppa
[00:22] <Hash> I can't find it in the log up there.
[00:22] <murmel> 3~
[00:22] <Hash> This is what happens when instead of helping, 120 people jump to criticize you.
[00:22] <leftyfb> https://launchpad.net/%7Ekelebek333/+archive/ubuntu/nvidia-legacy
[00:22] <Hash> I have no idea where that ppa link is anymore, my IRC buffer isn't that large.
[00:22] <leftyfb> but it won't matter, they have me on ignore :)
[00:23] <arraybolt3[m]> leftyfb: Hash: PPA
[00:23] <enigma9o7[m]> https://launchpad.net/%7Ekelebek333/+archive/ubuntu/nvidia-legacy
[00:23] <Hash> Tyank you
[00:24] <tomreyn> !logs > Hash
[00:24] <Hash> Ty
[00:24] <leftyfb> enigma9o7[m] also has me on ignore :)
[00:24] <Hash> Oh that's useful!
[00:27] <enigma9o7[m]> I'm now confused, isn't ubottu a bot?
[00:27] <oerheks> yes, officially
[00:28] <leftyfb> it is, but you have me on ignore so you didn't see me trigger it. Or this message :)
[00:28] <arraybolt3[m]> enigma9o7: I'm guessing tomreyn used a special variant of the bot command to make the info go to a private message.
[00:28] <oerheks> https://new.ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu3&search=&order=added%7CASC&page=24
[00:29] <Hash> Yes it is. But if I ignore someone, and then they use the bot to harass me in any manner, it's harassment. They were ignored and I don't want to speak to them or hear from them. If they circumvent the /ignore by using the bot to talk to me, I will happily ignore the bot. If this results in a ban, I'll find another distro. I will simply not allow anyone to cross my boundaries.  Always works fine, until I go to reboot. After I reboot, I can't access it remotely using my custom domain, I can only access it using the local IP address. Once I ssh in, I type "sudo netplan apply" and things go back to normal
[01:00] <Guest92> until the next reboot.
[01:01] <Guest92> My guess is I looked up multiple ways to configure static IP / remote access when I first set it up forever ago, and there's something that conflicts with Netplan that I don't use anymore, but I can't remember what it is!
[01:01] <Guest92> any ideas you might have about what conf files to look at, etc would be much appreciated
[01:02] <leftyfb> Guest92: how many files do you have in /etc/netplan/ ?
[01:03] <Guest92> just one!
[01:04] <sarnold> Guest92: I don't want to distract from leftyfb's efforts here, so just store this url aside for a bit, and come back to it if you're still stuck and out of ideas later on https://systemd.io/NETWORK_ONLINE/
[01:05] <sarnold> (it's guessing at a cause way before a cause has been determined.. bad sarnold :)
[01:05] <leftyfb> Guest92: can you post the contents of the file in /etc/netplan/ ?
[01:06] <leftyfb> Guest92: is/was this machine running a desktop environment?
[01:07] <Guest92> sarnold thanks!
[01:07] <Guest92> leftyfb yes give me a moment, there isn't much there. Also no, it's headless so just installed 18.04 server
[01:08] <Guest92> network:
[01:08] <Guest92>     version: 2
[01:08] <Guest92>     renderer: networkd
[01:08] <Guest92>     ethernets:
[01:08] <Guest92>         enp7s0f1:
[01:08] <Guest92>             dhcp4: true
[01:08] <leftyfb> !paste | Guest92
[01:10] <leftyfb> Guest92: cat /etc/netplan/* | nc termbin.com 9999
[01:14] <Guest92> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nBTkcpkscF/
[01:15] <Guest92> leftyfb there you go!
[01:15] <leftyfb> Guest92: that's not a static ip
[01:15] <Guest92> oh I know, it still has the same ip every time I reboot though
[01:16] <Guest92> the ip address isn't the issue, but I just have no idea what is or why netplan apply fixes it
[01:16] <leftyfb> define "access it"
[01:16] <Guest92> sorry, ssh
[01:16] <Guest92> after reboot, ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>works but ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>does not
[01:17] <leftyfb> Guest92: do you have port forwarding on your router?
[01:17] <Guest92> after "sudo netplan apply", back to normal
[01:17] <Guest92> yes port 22 is forwarded properly
[01:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Guest92: This may be a hacky solution, and hopefully you'll find something better, but if all else fails, you could write a custom systemd unit that will run a Bash script that runs "netplan apply" for you.
[01:19] <arraybolt3[m]> That would make it work on every boot. And if it doesn't work, just add a "sleep <number of seconds>" line before the "netplan apply" to delay execution until the right time.
[01:19] <leftyfb> that is only masking the problem, not fixing it
[01:19] <leftyfb> something doesn't add up here
[01:19] <arraybolt3[m]> leftyfb: True. Like I said, hopefully they'll find a better solution. Just throwing out an emergency "make things work if nothing else does" out there.
[01:19] <Guest92> yah I thought of that too! but I figured I'd ask about it first in case it's a really simple thing that I conf'd wrong way back when and someone would just say "look here over here dummy"
[01:20] <leftyfb> Guest92: can you verify right now by looking at the ip of the machine in question, verify the ip your router is port forwarding to, reboot and verify the ip of the machine in question again and see if you can ssh via the dns hostname
[01:22] <Guest92> yep! so currently, local IP is set to xxx.xxx.xxx.99, as it should be. I'll reboot and report back '
[01:23] <Guest92> meantime, can also confirm that the router has a IP reservation for xxx.xxx.xxx.99 set, with ports 22 + 2 others forwarded.
[01:25] <Guest92> now, after reboot, "cannot connect to host domain.duckdns.org port 22: operation timed out"
[01:25] <arraybolt3[m]> This might be silly, but maybe this is a race condition? Is it possible some component of networking isn't getting initialized until after Netplan tries to do its magic, thus requiring a "sudo netplan apply" to try again after the interface comes up? (I don't actually know how Netplan works, so this might be totally off, but I ran into a sorta similar problem some time ago.)
[01:25] <Guest92> "ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>does work and let me log on
[01:25] <leftyfb> arraybolt3[m]: ssh works fine, I do not think this is an ubuntu issue at all
[01:25] <Guest92> I type "sudo netplan apply", then logout, and when I log back on, I can ssh using the domain again
[01:26] <leftyfb> Guest92: I'm pretty sure this is an issue with your router and some weird state it's getting in with your machine going "offline" and doing a soft reboot
[01:27] <leftyfb> Guest92: netplan apply is just re-initializing the networking
[01:27] <arraybolt3[m]> leftyfb: Right, but my thinking is, that maybe this is happening: 1: System boots. 2: Netplan tries to apply too early. 3: Interface comes up. 4: User tries to SSH over DNS, fails. 5: Users tries to SSH with IP, works. 6: User runs "sudo netplan apply" *after* the interface is up. 7: Now everything works.
[01:27] <leftyfb> basically renewing your dhcp lease
[01:27] <oerheks> router keeps a lease..
[01:28] <leftyfb> arraybolt3[m]: it's not really "SSH over DNS", it's "SSH over port forward" that's the issue
[01:28] <leftyfb> SSH is working perfectly
[01:28] <oerheks> locally
[01:28] <leftyfb> right
[01:28] <leftyfb> other than that, that's not an ubuntu issue, that's a router issue
[01:28] <arraybolt3[m]> leftyfb: I know, sorry for bad terminology. oerheks: Oh, that's right, I didn't think about that.
[01:29] <arraybolt3[m]> leftyfb: I get it.
[01:29] <leftyfb> again, it's the router getting into a weird state of "losing" the client when it reboots, but only "finds" it again after you renew your lease after the link is up again
[01:29] <sarnold> I've not been following along.. is the dns giving an externally-reachable IP address, and the router won't let an internal host use that IP / port to forward to the machine in question?
[01:29] <Guest92> I know I'm not the expert here, but I'm pretty confident the router's not the issue. I can only say that because I've had this problem for almost a year (I've just been ignoring it), and in that time I've had 2 modems and 2 routers. and the router sees the server just fine after the reboot.
[01:29] <oerheks> put that ip in a mac filter, if your router gives such option
[01:30] <leftyfb> Guest92: the fact that ssh works perfectly means it's not an ubuntu issue. Your only issue is port forwarding over your router
[01:31] <leftyfb> Guest92: ubuntu has nothing to do with ssh coming over you router
[01:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Guest92: Were you using two different routers of different brands?
[01:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Guest92: Or the same brand?
[01:31] <Guest92> sorry I should have clarified that, yes
[01:32] <leftyfb> Guest92: you know another test you can do..... reboot your machine, confirm you cannot ssh in via the port forward, then reboor your router. I bet it works
[01:32] <Guest92> what other services has ubuntu used, currently or in the past, to do/configure what netplan does? I'm wondering if I have a conflicting config somewhere that I set up but don't know about, which is only overridden when netplan is applied again
[01:33] <Guest92> leftyfb that's a good idea, I'll try that now
[01:33] <leftyfb> Guest92: netplan and ssh are working perfectly
[01:33] <leftyfb> there is nothing wrong with netplan, ssh or anything to do with the network (software-wise) on your machine
[01:38] <InPhase> Guest92: After you finish leftyfb's suggestion, there's one other thing I'd be curious to see.  Pastebin /etc/resolv.conf after a fresh reboot, then do the netplan apply and pastebin that file again.
[01:39] <InPhase> Guest92: I notice in there you're specifying a particular nameserver, but dhcp would probably also be giving you a nameserver.  I assume these will be different.
[01:39] <leftyfb> InPhase: that won't make a difference when port forwarding from the internet through the router to a local ip
[01:40] <leftyfb> InPhase: resolv.conf is only for the router to resolve hostnames/DNS, not for incoming traffic from the router
[01:40] <InPhase> leftyfb: I believe sshd does a reverse dns lookup.
[01:41] <InPhase> leftyfb: And connecting from a localhost vs an external ip is functionally a different behavior under that, with potentially two different resolvers.
[01:41] <InPhase> s/localhost/192.168 subnet/
[01:41] <Guest92> I'm back! still having the same issue; router sees the server on the network, IP forwarding is still correct etc
[01:41] <leftyfb> Only for logging purposes or if you have hostname restrictions in the public key
[01:42] <Guest92> contents of /etc/resolv.conf is exactly the same before/after
[01:42] <InPhase> leftyfb: Yeah, there would be other digging needed.  But seems that's not a difference then.
[01:44] <leftyfb> Guest92: test it while booted to a live usb (install ssh and setup your public ssh key)
[01:44] <Guest92> I definitely remember messing around with multiple conf's when I was setting this thing up originally. So I know my netplan conf is correct, I know ssh isn't the issue etc etc I'm just pretty sure that there's another config somewhere that I set up, didn't need, and have forgotten about, that's conflicting somehow
[01:44] <Guest92> @left
[01:44] <oerheks> how does your netplan looks like now?
[01:44] <oerheks> static ip and dhcp4 no ?
[01:45] <Guest92> leftyfb I did set up another server to xxx.xxx.xxx.88, and set it up otherwise identically, and it's never had these issues.
[01:45] <Guest92> oerheks https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nBTkcpkscF/
[01:45] <leftyfb> Same physical machine?
[01:46] <Guest92> yes, just different boot drive
[01:49] <InPhase> Guest92: If you're feeling adventurous and confident in "otherwise identically", you could do a diff -r between the /etc directories of the two drives and go on a hunting expedition for what is different that has anything to do with networking or ssh.
[01:51] <Guest92> well it's obviously not "identical" otherwise, because of this thing I'm almost certain I'm missing / have forgotten about, but yes I take your point! that would be a tedious but probably effective way of finding it
[02:01] <oerheks> intel micro code update.. - CVE-2022-21151, INTEL-SA-00617  - CVE-2021-0146,  INTEL-SA-00528  - CVE-2021-0127,  INTEL-SA-00532
[02:02] <Guest92> thanks for everything, folks! off to do some diff-ing
[04:07] <cornfeedhobo> is there any way to launch tasksel without it launching the ncurses gui?
[04:28] <enigma9o7[m]> yeah, command line
[04:28] <enigma9o7[m]> pass params too it
[04:28] <cornfeedhobo> negative. it always launches ncurses
[04:28] <cornfeedhobo> and there is no flag to stop it
[04:28] <enigma9o7[m]> i.e. tasksel install lxde
[04:28] <cornfeedhobo> yeah yeah i know
[04:28] <cornfeedhobo> that does nothing
[04:29] <cornfeedhobo> it still launches an ncurses gui with a progress bar
[04:29] <enigma9o7[m]> i see i see
[04:30] <enigma9o7[m]> so just sudo apt install stuff
[04:30] <enigma9o7[m]> instead of tasksel
[04:30] <enigma9o7[m]> it does the same thing
[04:30] <cornfeedhobo> hmmm, i guess i could get the package list from list-packages and pass that
[04:30] <cornfeedhobo> huh. i like it. thanks!
[04:30] <enigma9o7[m]> theres a meta package
[04:30] <cornfeedhobo> for the full ubuntu desktop?
[04:30] <tripleb> I have sda5 456G Used 145G - I want to partition the drive to install another ubuntu boot partition (22.04) and a data partiiton. I fear that my data is spread out all over the drive and will be overwritten. Help me understand hot to do it.
[04:31] <enigma9o7[m]> yeah, that one is tricky, its called ubuntu-desktop
[04:31] <cornfeedhobo> yeah, that's why i was messing with tasksel install ubuntu-desktop
[04:31] <tripleb> mate had been a mess and fail on 2 different computers, one  is an HP laptop.
[04:32] <enigma9o7[m]> tripleb, i dunno for sure, i only know what i'd try if i wanted to do that; i'd boot a live iso and run gparted
[04:32] <tripleb> That's like making a left turn without looking. I need more advice from those who may know.
[04:33] <enigma9o7[m]> shrink the partition, make a new one.
[04:33] <enigma9o7[m]> or two
[04:33] <tripleb> enigma, I am not going to just try. I heard that ext4 puts important things at the high end of the partition.
[04:33] <enigma9o7[m]> trial & error is fun
[04:33] <enigma9o7[m]> thats how I learn
[04:33] <tripleb> go right ahead.
[04:34] <enigma9o7[m]> or just go left without looking ;)
[04:35] <tripleb> But thanks your giving me your point of view. enigma9o7[m]  - I shat sleep on it.
[04:40] <cornfeedhobo> well, funny enough `tasksel --task-packages ubuntu-desktop` just outputs ubuntu-desktop^
[04:40] <cornfeedhobo> either way, `apt install -y $(tasksel --task-packages ubuntu-desktop)` seems good enough
[04:45] <angolar2> anyone in here familiar with the foot terminal?
[04:47] <zzo38> I have question about a package for Ubuntu. I wrote a puzzle game engine called Free Hero Mesh, and someone might want to include it in the Ubuntu package manager (and possibly also Debian, Devuan, etc). It requires Node.js to build only if the code has been modified; if you are compiling unmodified code then it is not needed.
[04:49] <zzo38> Additionally, it does not use Unicode (I will not fix this; however, I do intend to add support for more code pages, including multibyte code pages (e.g. EUC-JP) in future), and the man page uses the .so and .ds commands.
[04:50] <enigma9o7[m]> If you want package yourself, a good place to publish is launchpad.  Helps you figur eout how to make the source package and stuff.
[04:50] <enigma9o7[m]> Its not trivial either, packaging is pita.
[04:50] <enigma9o7[m]> Until you understand it.
[04:52] <zzo38> Dependencies for run time are SDL1.x and SQLite. (However, ensure that the version of SQLite in the package manager is not too old; on my computer it is, so I had to compile SQLite myself.)
[04:52] <enigma9o7[m]> After that try to get it in debian.
[04:52] <zzo38> Is it acceptable for a package to have man pages with the .so command and/or .ds command?
[04:55] <zzo38> (If necessary, I believe it is possible to convert any man page that uses these commands to one that does not use them.)
[04:58] <zzo38> Note also that I do not use Bazaar; I am using Fossil instead. (I am not sure how easy it is to make them interoperable; I will read the Bazaar documentation and try to figure out if I can.)
[05:00] <murmel> zzo38: you would best be going to debian, getting it there "upstreamed" and then it will be automatically pulled into ubuntu. Problem being, if you don't package it yourself, it's very unlikely that somebody will do it
[05:02] <zzo38> Fossil identifies files by their SHA-1 hash (new versions also support SHA3-256). If Bazaar can also identify files by their SHA-1 hash (without any extra header added like that which Git adds), then it should be possible to transfer files between them, I hope.
[05:02] <zzo38> I did ask in Debian, and may try again later to ask, but it is unsure that I would package it by myself. (I asked in Debian more than a year ago though, I think; not recently)
[05:03] <murmel> zzo38: if you want to formally apply for a package, you would need to send a RFP (request for package) to their mailing list
[05:08] <Guest11> Hi all, silly question; I've never set up my server to back up before. going to try upgrading to the new LTS, but wanted to have a backup before I do. I looked at various backup utilities, but restoring from them doesn't look very straightforward if I end up needing to. I'd rather just have a working clone of the boot volume. Is this possible?
[05:08] <Guest11> Would it really just be as simple as setting up rsync to copy everything from / ? and then in the event that the primary boot volume is hosed, just swap the drives and carry on?
[05:11] <murmel> Guest11: if you want something gui like, you can also use clonezilla to clone the whole disk (so you can restore the whole disk if something goes wrong)
[05:11] <Guest11> I'm not running a gui
[05:12] <murmel> Guest11: I am talking about clonezilla (it's a live iso) which means you boot it from a usb stick best case
[05:12] <zzo38> What I had done is using "tar --anchored -c -v -S --numeric-owner --one-file-system -p" and pipe that to gzip and store the file on a USB flash drive, and then record the files onto one or more DVDs.
[05:12] <murmel> which gives you a gui to clone the whole disk
[05:12] <murmel> zzo38: idk about you, but my data is bigger than a usb stick ;)
[05:13] <zzo38> That is how I did backups on my computer. I was able to restore the files onto a new hard drive after that; after that the only thing I needed to do is to restore the boot loader and fix the UUID of the file system in the boot loader configuration file.
[05:14] <zzo38> murmel: OK. I suppose a lot of people have more files than I have on my computer. (The files on my computer will fit on three or four DVDs after they are compressed.)
[05:14] <murmel> zzo38: uh you burn dvds? for backups? ^^
[05:15] <zzo38> (Also, you can use more than one USB stick; you do not need to use only one. However, you must figure out how to best split up the directories so that they will fit.)
[05:15] <Guest11> zzo38 so this is kind of what I mean... rather than "restore the files onto a new hard drive" as you said... I'd rather just ... already have them on a drive? then in the event of an issue, I just install that drive, rip out the old one, and carry on. putting it onto a stick, and compressing it, etc just means more work and more downtime in the
[05:15] <Guest11> event of an issue, no?
[05:15] <zzo38> murmel: Yes; I insist to use WORM (write once, read many) media for backups. (Or at least, I would do, but my DVD recorder does not seem to be working. I still ahve the backup on USB, though.)
[05:16] <zzo38> If you can connect two hard drives to your computer at once, then yes you can do that, but I still like to keep separate backups (on WORM media, as I said), which is why I did not do that.
[05:17] <Guest11> it's a media server with several drive bays and usb ports. I don't need frequent backups, I probably wouldn't even update the clone more than once every few weeks. minimal downtime is the key factor in my case.
[05:18] <murmel> Guest11: eh sounds like then, that you do want to look into rsync, and backup your config files extra (so you don't have to backup the system itself)
[05:19] <Guest11> murmel can you elaborate on that? what do you mean by not having to backup the system itself
[05:19] <murmel> Guest11: nowadays most people just backup their config files and have an automated install or just reinstall manually. so they don't have to fiddle with efi and/or UUID for disks etc
[05:20] <murmel> (basically you would need to fix booting the system)
[05:20] <murmel> building your own automated install, should take you max 1 hr for a basic one
[05:22] <zzo38> I always backup the entire system, so it is not necessary to reinstall anything other than the boot loader.
[05:23] <murmel> zzo38: not everybody wants to fiddle with the bootloader (as the install is easy to do)
[05:23] <zzo38> (The boot loader configuration is included in the backup, like everything else, but the boot loader itself isn't.)
[05:24] <Guest11> so this is kind of what I'm getting at.... what you're describing sounds like.. more work? so I'm wondering what I'm missing. from what I can tell, your method is: 1) reinstall OS onto new drive first, then 2) use restore utility or scripts to restore config files to where they were, and presumably reinstall programs, etc. . Whereas my thinking is
[05:24] <Guest11> 1) install drive clone into same drive bay as original disk 2) boot up, already good to go since it has *everything*
[05:25] <Guest11> in my case the system is an old Mac Pro tower. so I think boot loader stuff etc is all handled by Mac efi anyways. it just looks for a bootable volume in the front drive bay, and works its way down from there
[05:26] <murmel> Guest11: you would still need to edit UUIDs, the only exception afaik is if you use dd to clone the drive (which also copies over zero space)
[05:26] <murmel> so it may take longer, but you can boot from it (afair)
[05:30] <zzo38> I do not reinstall the OS at all; the OS is part of the backup and can be restored. Only the boot loader needs to be reinstalled; the OS is already there.
[05:30] <Guest11> thanks for the info. sorry for the dumb question but why would I need to edit the uuid? I do get that each drive will have a different one, I'm just not sure what its role is. my thinking was just that the system, on boot, would look for a bootable volume in drive bay 1, find it, and boot to it. why would it care that the volume has a different
[05:30] <Guest11> uuid if it's bootable?
[05:31] <zzo38> If you are cloning the disk, then you do not need to change the UUID. However, if you are making tape archive files like I do, then the new UUID will be different and you will need to fix it.
[05:31] <zzo38> (Maybe it is different for UEFI; I don't know. I do not use UEFI and I do not like UEFI.)
[05:32] <murmel> this ^, as I said, if you dd the disk no need for changing UUIDs
[05:32] <zzo38> (You also do not need to reinstall the boot loader if you are cloning the disk, since that will copy the boot loader too)
[05:32] <murmel> zzo38: I guess you have a nice future then
[05:35] <murmel> zzo38: just pointing out, as intel already announced to disable features if you choose legacy boot (which won't be supported forever, even by bios companies)
[05:48] <zzo38> Another thing about Free Hero Mesh: One of the files included (misc/har.c) possibly should be in a separate package. It is not required by Free Hero Mesh, but is useful with it; it is also useful with OHRRPGCE and possibly other packages (none of which require it). Additionally, an implementation of farbfeld is required to use the picture import/export function of Free Hero Mesh (it is not required if you do not use this feature).
[05:48] <zzo38> How do you deal with the package requirements that I mentioned (including some that I mentioned earlier, about Node.js, man pages, etc)?
[05:57] <murmel> zzo38: well idk about manpages, but the rest shouldn't be a huge problem. (as for example node.js shouldn't be a huge issue, as nobody would change the game)
[05:58] <murmel> sqlite is kinda a bummer, but I guess as long as you don't push the versions too fast, it's not that of a huge problem as the sid/testing branch would reletively fast change to the new verison
[06:44] <naawb> hi, any advice how I could increasemy disk space in EFI? I have unallocated space available
[06:46] <gpkumar> is the unallocated space available directly next to the efi boot partition?
[06:46] <gpkumar> if not forget about increase it
[06:46] <naawb> how can I check it?
[06:47] <gpkumar> do you have gparted installed? check in the menu
[06:50] <naawb> gpkumar it looks like this, i have dualboot https://imgur.com/a/HYUddPW
[06:51] <naawb> direct link: https://i.imgur.com/Rhbp4O7.png
[06:51] <naawb> no hope?
[06:51] <gpkumar> it is not to the next of the first partition
[06:52] <gpkumar> you can do it by moving every partition, but I highly discourage you to do that
[06:52] <naawb> it will most likely result in errors?
[06:53] <naawb> what it EFI partition moved to unallocated one?
[06:53] <gpkumar> not errors, but takes lot of time and there are chances of data loss
[06:53] <naawb> or doesnt work like that
[06:53] <gpkumar> nah it doesn't work like that
[06:53] <naawb> damn thought ssd nvmes are different
[07:33] <hans_> how do i resize the default swap file on 22.04? is it just swapoff -a; truncate -s 10G /swap.img; swapon -a;   or is there something more to it?
[07:36] <Maik> hans https://linuxhint.com/change_swap_size_ubuntu/
[07:44] <asarch> One stupid question: where could I buy them (the hardcopy)? https://pasteboard.co/NzxIILRNB8le.jpg
[07:45] <Maik> asarch: that's offtopic here
[07:46] <Maik> #ubuntu-offtopic would be a better place to ask this :)
[08:05] <asarch> Thank you
[08:05] <asarch> And sorry for ask
[08:09] <Maik> no problem
[09:06] <dex> hey
[09:17] <tomreyn> hans_: i think your approach should work fine (assuming "/swap.img" is in /etc/fstab as such).
[09:18] <tomreyn> you may need to "mkswap /swap.img" also (before mounting it), i'm unsure whether this will happen automatically.
[09:44] <hans_> is there an Ubuntu alternative to Debian's "python-certbot-nginx" package ?
[09:45] <hans_> lel yeah, it's called "python3-certbot-nginx"
[09:45] <lotuspsychje> !info python3-certbot-nginx
[10:48] <manwhowouldbekin> Hi, all. Just rebooted my Ubuntu and discovered that no sites load in browsers. I get a "check your proxy settings" error message. As far as I know, I do not use a proxy. At the same time, I get a successful ping to Google from command line, IRC working and messengers working. How can I troubleshoot this?
[10:48] <lotuspsychje> manwhowouldbekin: other network related things still work? can you sudo apt update for a test?
[10:49] <manwhowouldbekin> lotuspsychje, Yes, they do. I have actually tried that very command for a test myself. It worked.
[10:55] <lotuspsychje> manwhowouldbekin: wich ubuntu release and browser(s) version did you try?
[10:56] <manwhowouldbekin> lotuspsychje, I am on Ubuntu 22.04. I have tried Vivaldi (Chromium) and Firefox.
[10:57] <lotuspsychje> pretty weird, are you behind a router or firewall manwhowouldbekin
[10:57] <manwhowouldbekin> lotuspsychje, I am behind a router. I cannot even get to that router's IP address from the browser. It gives the same error. Rebooting didn't help either.
[10:58] <lotuspsychje> manwhowouldbekin: did you do anything special before this started to happen? recent updates or anything else?
[10:59] <manwhowouldbekin> lotuspsychje, Not that I remember. I typically suspend the machine, so a week or two can pass between reboots. I was messing with OpenVPN at some point (trying to setup client). I do think there were some updates during this time period as well.
[11:00] <lotuspsychje> messing with vpn could result in unwanted configs perhaps?
[11:01] <manwhowouldbekin> lotuspsychje, Possible. I was going off tutorials mostly.
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> try to undo what you did on vpn, see if you can revert things
[11:02] <lotuspsychje> if it was updates/network related, i dont think apt would still work right
[11:05] <manwhowouldbekin> lotuspsychje, Sounds reasonable. I honestly do not know where to begin. Will google around. Need to sign off now, but might return later with same question. Thanks!
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> !vpn
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> manwhowouldbekin: you could also trace your /var/log/dpkg logs to see what recently happened to your system
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> perhaps also leave a; journalctl -f running while you seek your problem
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> turning off network/ turn back on could give error clues too
[11:38] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[11:41] <tomreyn> Hi BluesKaj
[11:43] <BluesKaj> hi tomreyn
[11:43] <wez> .o/
[11:52] <maerwald[m]> Does the ubuntu 20.04 on WSL2 have somehow fewer packages than the proper version?
[11:53] <ravage> no
[11:55] <maerwald[m]> So you can install libtinfo5 on WSL2 focal?
[11:55] <ravage> !info libtinfo5
[11:57] <ravage> !info libtinfo5 focal
[11:57] <ravage> yes you can
[11:59] <Grems> Fullscreen YouTube-videos and others now no longer prevent my screen from sleeping. This happened after updating from 20.04 to 21.10 - I'm using i3. How do I go about fixing this?
[11:59] <Grems> (Screen falls asleep after 10 minutes)
[12:01] <maerwald[m]> ravage: then I wonder why users report they can't https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/379
[12:04] <maerwald[m]> ravage: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/379
[12:04] <maerwald[m]> Oops, the chat is lagging
[12:05] <ravage> maerwald[m], Probably because they don't know how repositories work in Ubuntu and how to enable them
[12:05] <maerwald[m]> ravage: The issue auther runs their own ppa afaik
[12:06] <ravage> then the issuer is responsible for his packages and dependencies :)
[12:10] <KBar> Grems: maybe this will shed some light? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InhibitingGnomeScreensaver
[12:13] <Grems> KBar: Checking
[12:13] <maerwald[m]> ravage: I don't understand what you mean
[12:14] <ravage> maerwald[m], the package is available in the universe repo. enable it and you will be able to install the package
[12:14] <ravage> if some external PPA need that package the instructions to use that PPA have to make that clear
[12:15] <maerwald[m]> ravage: so universe repo is not enabled per default?
[12:15] <ravage> i dont use WSL2
[12:16] <ravage> so you would have to check that yourself
[12:16] <maerwald[m]> Right, so there may be further shenanigans that sre wsl2 specific
[12:16] <maerwald[m]> That's why I'm asking
[12:16] <maerwald[m]> I don't have windows
[12:17] <ravage> it is a prepackaged system. i have no idea whats enabled in it
[12:17] <KBar> well, running linux on windows and vice versa is bound to create shenanigans
[12:18] <ravage> in general WSL2 worked pretty ok wenn i tested it
[12:18] <ravage> i just dont have it available atm
[12:29] <Grems> KBar: Looks like `caffeine` is the answer for me. Thank you
[12:30] <KBar> Grems: Ah! I forgot about that one. Glad that you found the solution.
[12:42] <tomreyn> Grems: actually, the web browser playig the video could do it itself, and at least firefox and chromium should do so (i'm not sure whether they succeed on doing this when run as a snap, though)
[12:44] <Grems> tomreyn: Firefox. As snap
[12:44] <tomreyn> Xorg/Wayland may also have an impact there, and certainly the desktop environment
[12:44] <tomreyn> or compositor really
[12:51] <Grems> Xorg
[12:52] <Grems> The many different possible culprits make it annoying, and the regression surprises me
[13:28] <Daino> hi i have a problem with vlc remote from an android smartphone, to control vlc on a ubuntu pc
[13:28] <Daino> anyone use it?
[13:30] <Grems> Yes
[13:32] <Daino> so vlc is playing on the ubuntu pc. All settings in main interface of vlc seems correct. If i open a browser on the pc, at the adress http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080 i can see vlc interface working
[13:33] <Daino> but if i open a browser on the android smartphone, the adress http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080 is not available
[13:34] <tomreyn> chances are that your android phone is on a different network, and that your access point or router does not allow communication between these, or within clients on the wireless LAN.
[13:35] <murmel> Daino: did you make sure that the firewall is letting trafffic through (on port 8080)
[13:35] <Daino> ubuntu pc and android smartphone are in the same wifi of the same internet connection
[13:36] <Daino> both devices have correct access on the internet
[13:37] <tomreyn> do you have firewalling setup on the ubuntu system?
[13:37] <tomreyn> does    iptables -L    output anything but section headings?
[13:37] <tomreyn> + sudo
[13:38] <Daino> listen. if i do ifconfig on the pc i receive <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:38] <leftyfb> Daino: what version of ubuntu is this?
[13:38] <Daino> but on the router wifi i can't see <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:39] <Daino> can i post a screenshot here?
[13:39] <tomreyn> use imgur.com, post url of image (not the page embedding it)
[13:40] <Daino> imgur.com
[13:40] <leftyfb> Daino: cat /etc/os-release | nc termbin.com 9999
[13:40] <leftyfb> tomreyn: my guess is AP isolation
[13:40] <tomreyn> mine, too
[13:40] <leftyfb> also potentially an outdated release :)
[13:41] <Daino> i don't know why, but on the wifi pc list connect, there is no <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:41] <leftyfb> goodl luck, I've got outside things to do today
[13:42] <Daino> sorry, now there is also <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:43] <Daino> so both devices are connected on the same wifi. But <IP_ADDRESS>:8080 works only on the pc, not on the smartphone
[13:44] <Maik> Try KDE Connect (on your android device) and GSConnect on your Ubuntu install, maybe you can control VLC that way.
[13:45] <Daino> ok now it works
[13:45] <Daino> sorry for all, it didn't work for days, know is ok
[13:47] <tomreyn> Daino: what was it?
[13:48] <Daino> i don't know. Now <IP_ADDRESS>:8080 is available also from the android smartphone, and vlc remote works correctly.
[13:52] <tomreyn> hmm, this comes as a surprise, unless you also made configuration changes. but then, consumer networking + wireless can be fuzzy.
[16:36] <mybalzitch> it'd be really nice if in 22.04, if x11 fails to start due to a nvidia kernel driver mismatch, that the system would give me a tty to work from, instead of just halting on that start/stop service screen. Thankfully it started openssh early in the boot process so I was able to get *another* computer to be able to type in a couple commands to install the required kernel driver.
[16:36] <NeilRG> how do I get the macintosh layout to work in ubuntu?
[16:36] <NeilRG> I've set the keyboard layout to English (Macintosh), but the keys aren't producing the correct characters
[16:40] <jhutchins> NeilRG: What kind of keyboard is it?
[16:40] <NeilRG> just an ordinaly 87 key keyboard
[16:41] <oerheks> from a mint user;  OK, after much fiddling, choosing "Apple" as the keyboard, with the others English UK seems to do the trick!
[16:41] <NeilRG> oerheks, "choose apple" where?
[16:42] <NeilRG> oerheks,  you mean in sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration?  or do you mean in settings->keyboard->input sources
[16:42] <NeilRG> also what is the difference between dpkg-reconfigure and input source?
[16:43] <jhutchins> I would expect that choosing an apple keyboard layout would allow the system to correctly interpret an apple keyboard, not emulate one with unknown hardware.
[16:43] <oerheks> also, there is English ( uk, macintosh) and (uk, macintosh, intl)
[16:45] <NeilRG> jhutchins, okay, but I used to have it working in ubuntu 20.04.  Haven't been able to get it working in 22.04
[16:46] <NeilRG> oerheks, I understand, but do I choose it in dpkg-reconfigure or input sources, and what's the difference?
[16:46] <jhutchins> NeilRG: "It" being emulating an apple keyboard with a random generic keyboard.
[16:47] <NeilRG> jhutchins, yes
[16:49] <oerheks> not sure how the configure tool should be set for apple.
[16:49] <oerheks> UK first?
[16:54] <NeilRG> oerheks, UK?
[17:03] <NeilRG> okay I figured it out
[17:03] <NeilRG> I had to manually set the "alternate characters key"—the default wasn't enough
[17:34] <webchat43> I was running mysqld  and got the following error  [MY-010123] [Server] Fatal error: Please read "Security " section of the manual to find out how to run mysqld as root! 2022-06-18T14:59:12.718773Z 0 [ ERROR] [MY-010119] [Server] Abo rting
[17:35] <oerheks> webchat43, the guides we gave you handle that problem.
[17:35] <oerheks> running mysqld as root is a bad idea too.
[17:36] <webchat43> Then how do I run mysqld
[17:36] <oerheks> if you tried too many fixes, do a fresh install and see
[17:38] <webchat43> Can you tell me how to run mysqld
[17:39] <oerheks> if you set it up correctly, it runs from boot.
[17:39] <webchat43> Can you tell me how to do that
[17:40] <oerheks> yes, follow the guides we gave you?
[17:40] <oerheks> do a fresh install, and the guides will work :-D
[17:41] <webchat43> I did a fresh install
[17:41] <webchat43> I downloaded mysql as a tar file
[17:42] <oerheks> oh, we do not support that, only our packages from the repos
[17:42] <oerheks> register your name, and seek help in #mysql
[17:48] <webchat090> I had the following error while running MYSQLD [MY-010123] [Server] Fat al error: Please read "Security " section of the manual to find out how to run mysqld as root! 2022-06-18T14:59:12.718773Z 0 [ ERROR] [MY-010119] [Server] Abo rting
[17:49] <oerheks> not.
[17:50] <webchat090> Is anyone there
[17:51] <KBar> webchat090: it literally says "read ......."
[17:51] <webchat090> How do I did it
[17:51] <KBar> webchat090: `man mysql-client` I'd imagine. From the terminal.
[17:52] <webchat090> This happened while I was running mysqld server
[17:52] <KBar> webchat090: you downloaded it from a third-party.
[17:52] <KBar> Sorry, but we cannot help you here.
[17:53] <oerheks> you did not set up the mysql user properly, but we have been through this before
[17:53] <KBar> There are official Ubuntu repositories, where software is specifically tested and integrated into the Ubuntu OS.
[17:53] <oerheks> fresh install, and the guides will work
[17:53] <oerheks> !register
[17:53] <KBar> If you choose to compile from source or download from the vendor, then we can't really help you.
[17:55] <webchat090> I did a fresh install I downloaded mysql from the repos  but it gave me the password has no significance  for root @ localhost even after I used ALTER USER
[17:55] <webchat090> And changed my password
[17:56] <webchat090> I did mysql_secure_installation
[17:57] <webchat090> Many times I disabled password validation
[17:57] <webchat090> Plugin
[17:57] <webchat090> I 'M using Ubuntu 22.04
[17:57] <webchat090> Do I have to downgrade to Ubuntu 20.04
[17:58] <jhutchins> webchat090: Are there README files in /usr/share/doc/MySQL-server?
[17:58] <KBar> webchat090: I don't think so. But in any case, stick around and maybe someone who understand MySQL will lend you a helping hand.
[17:59] <webchat090> Ok
[17:59] <KBar> webchat090: Just don't spam and be patient. If anything, your spam will deter those who wanted to help you.
[17:59] <webchat090> Ok got it sorry
[18:00] <jhutchins> webchat090: Did you read the security section of the manual?
[18:00] <webchat090> I 'M just so worried I can't get it to work
[18:00] <jhutchins> webchat090: What will the MySQL server ve used for?
[18:00] <webchat090> No
[18:00] <webchat090> Testing and practice
[18:01] <webchat090> For a WordPress website
[18:26] <xcm_> hello!
[18:26] <xcm_> i
[18:28] <xcm_> i have a system with ubuntu 22.04 and an intel 9260 wifi card. in the past usb used to work just fine, but it no longer shows up in `rfkill` or anywhere else. wifi still works fine. i have tried different kernels and going through /etc/modprobe.d to make sure that i haven't disabled anything to no avail
[18:30] <oerheks> it works, but does not show in rfkill list?
[18:30] <oerheks> weird
[18:31] <xcm_> wifi shows up in rfkill and works. bluetooth does not show up anywhere
[18:34] <oerheks> oke, BT does not work.
[18:35] <oerheks> maybe it needs firmware,   ls -al /lib/firmware/ | grep iwlwifi-9260
[18:35] <oerheks> does it show ucode packages?
[18:35] <oerheks> if not; sudo service fwupd start && sudo fwupdmgr refresh && sudo fwupdmgr update
[18:36] <xcm_> it does show a bunch of .ucode files
[18:36] <oerheks> are you dual booting?
[18:37] <xcm_> no, this is the only OS. i also tried disabling /etc/modprobe.d/intel-microcode-blacklist.conf atif that's related
[18:37] <xcm_> *at some point to see if that's related
[18:38] <KBar> what do you mean disabling? I hope you didn't remove that file
[18:38] <xcm_> i commented out its contents and rebooted to see if that would help
[18:39] <KBar> ah, sure
[18:54] <xcm_> alright, i'm an old man now. ain't nobody got time for intel adapters. i'll find a usb one from another vendor. any suggestions perhaps?
[19:11] <rob0> xcm_: iwlwifi has worked well for me since ~2014, no troubles. Initially it had a problem with my 3.x kernal and an older ucode, but after upgrading both it has had 8 years of solid service.
[19:12] <rob0> For USB I suggest looking around linuxwireless (if that site still exists, maybe renamed) to find device discussions and driver information.
[19:17] <oerheks> xcm_, check for a bios update, else reset the bios and boot again?
[19:19] <Spockz> Hi all, I'm in a situation I've luckily never been before. When trying to do apt-get install packages. I get text like "<packageIwant> depends on <somepackage> version such, but it is not going to be installed". Why not???
[19:19] <xcm_> oerheks: did both but nothing helped
[19:20] <manwhowouldbekin> Greetings, all. Was chatting about this earlier with lotuspsychje, but had to sign off. Still looking for help. "Just rebooted my Ubuntu and discovered that no sites load in browsers. I get a "check your proxy settings" error message. As far as I know, I do not use a proxy. At the same time, I get a successful ping to Google from command line, IRC working and messengers working. How can I troubleshoot this? "
[19:21] <Spockz> When I try to install the packages I want on a fresh ubuntu install in a container it works splendidly. But when trying the same command on an azure devops ubuntu vm it fails with the above cryptic message. How can I debug this? I have already copied the sources list., ran (sudo) apt-get update. But still different behaviour.
[19:21] <KBar> manwhowouldbekin start your browser in recovery mode.
[19:22] <i-garrison> xcm_: did you checked your dmesg for any hci messages?
[19:22] <manwhowouldbekin> KBar, It is not just one browser. It is any browser on my system. Do you mean recovery mode for the browser or for the OS? How does that help me?
[19:24] <KBar> manwhowouldbekin: try a different name server
[19:26] <manwhowouldbekin> KBar, DNS? I can't even get to my router's control panel by typing its direct IP address.
[19:27] <KBar> soon we'll know you never had one. did you reboot it?
[19:29] <manwhowouldbekin> KBar, Are speaking to me? Never had what?
[19:32] <oerheks> azure devops ubuntu vm .. ask in #azure what to do? seems not like an Ubuntu issue, Spockz
[19:33] <Spockz> oerheks: I can of course. But this seems to me like apt is doing some strange things and I want to know why.
[19:34] <Spockz> For example by putting it in a more verbose mode but I don’t know how. Why does it say “it won’t be installed”? Why the peace not, i asked for a package that depends on it. Why won’t you install it
[19:36] <Spockz> I worked around it now by explicitly saying that I want that dependency installed as well by adding it to the install command
[19:44] <xcm_> i-garrison: couldn't find any error in dmesg i'm afraid
[19:53] <Brian666> Hi
[19:53] <Brian666> Did Ubuntu kill off Lindows back in the days?
[19:54] <Brian666> Ubuntu should go into the pc business
[19:55] <oerheks> Brian666, this ubuntu technical support
[19:55] <oerheks> there is #ubuntu-offtopic for great ideas
[20:04] <i-garrison> xcm_: just dmesg | grep hci
[20:04] <i-garrison> if nothing comes out, try reseating the module
[20:18] <tomreyn> Spockz: you'll have incompatible package versions installed, probably packages which are not part of ubuntu, possibly not even made for your ubuntu release.
[20:19] <tomreyn> Spockz: packages that are installed, but lack an apt source, thus an upgrade path, thus receive no security / bug fixes: apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$' | nc termbin.com 9999
[20:20] <tomreyn> see also the output of   sudo apt update   - any errors or warnings there? solve them first.
[20:20] <tomreyn> apt policy lists active apt sources and their priorities (those numbers, higher is more likely to get installed)
[20:23] <Spockz> Thanks tomreyn. I’ll see what is added
[20:32] <Guest97> Hey
[20:33] <Guest97> Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[20:33] <gordonjcp> !ask | Guest97
[20:33] <Guest97> When Ubuntu 22
[20:33] <Guest97> ?
[20:33] <oerheks> 22.04 is out
[20:33] <Guest97> 24.04?
[20:34] <oerheks> see the topic for downloads
[20:34] <tomreyn> !yy.mm | Guest97
[20:34] <Guest97> Thanks
[20:34] <oerheks> have fun! and read the releasenotes
[20:35] <Guest97> Is 24 more stable than 22?
[20:35] <tomreyn> Guest97: will you leave the channel this time without spreading 4 letter words then?
[20:35] <oerheks> what is 24?
[20:35] <Guest97> I mean 24.04
[20:36] <oerheks> dunno, such ubuntu does not exist
[20:36] <ravage> predicting the future is not part of support
[20:36] <Guest97> Oh OK i found on softonic
[20:36] <Guest97> "ubuntu-24-04-stablereleaseamd64.iso"
[20:37] <ravage> ok. troll confirmed. im out :)
[20:37] <oerheks> ravage, welcome to weekend support
[20:39] <Guest97> Thanks for support!!!!!!!!!
[21:20] <geosmile> How do i tell ssh to listen to a particular ip/port on an ubuntu box? I see its <IP_ADDRESS>:22 - but i cant ssh through a particular ip:22
[21:21] <ravage> you should be able to connect from any IP with the default setting
[21:21] <oerheks> Open the /etc/ssh/sshd_config file and locate the line: #Port 22
[21:21] <oerheks> change, save, restart sshd
[21:21] <geosmile> netstat shows tcp        0      0 <IP_ADDRESS>:22              <IP_ADDRESS>:*               LISTEN      1591/sshd: /usr/sbi
[21:22] <ravage> what excactly do you want to achieve?
[21:22] <oerheks> tons of guides, start with https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/service-openssh
[21:23] <geosmile> I've a server, and 2 client machines in the same house (outgoing IP is the same). When I ssh from both those machines, one goes through with the same ssh config, and the other does not. Am trying to debug this.
[21:24] <gordonjcp> geosmile: daft question
[21:24] <geosmile> Since I could not get inside the server using the typical static IP for it, I was trying the vpn IP:22 - still get operation timed out
[21:24] <gordonjcp> geosmile: the one you can't attach to, is that trying to get to an IP address actually on your network?
[21:24] <ravage> the current config does not block anything
[21:24] <gordonjcp> geosmile: like, it's not trying to get to an external forwarded port?
[21:24] <ravage> sounds like a routing problem
[21:24] <ravage> or firewall
[21:24] <geosmile> the server is a machine outside the 2 machine network
[21:24] <oerheks> vpn?
[21:26] <adot> How do you get gdb to give you debuginfo for glibc. I've installed `glibc-source` and `libc6-dbg`, but still get `../stdlib/strtol.c: No such file or directory.`
[21:26] <geosmile> oerheks, I also have tailscale on both machines - but that doesnt help in this case either.
[21:43] <jadenlian> im running apache2 and i configuered my router to forward the traffic from ports 80 and 443 to my ip but unless on using a device connected to my home network i cant access the server
[21:45] <tomreyn> jadenlian: sounds like you need to also configure the firewall on your router to let the traffic pass into your network
[21:46] <tomreyn> jadenlian: that or the isp generally blocks those ports
[21:47] <jadenlian> tomreyn:let check the router's firewall to see
[21:51] <tomreyn> jadenlian: my traceroute to your ip address (the one seen here on irc) stops in Cogent's interconnect for Claro PR
[21:51] <tomreyn> so i'm guessing Claro PR is a bit restrictive with how you can use your ADSL connection
[21:56] <jadenlian23> tomreyn: i guess it has to do with isp cause i disable the firewall on the router and even my pc and still same result
[21:57] <ravage> thats exactly what he said :)
[21:57] <jadenlian23> so i probably have to talk to them about it
[21:58] <tomreyn> yes, most likely
[21:58] <ravage> im sure that will be a fun conversation with first level support :)
[21:58] <tomreyn> :)
[21:59] <tomreyn> you could still tunnel through something else, but that's complicated to setup and maintain and not exactly ideal
[21:59] <jadenlian23> something like ngrok
[22:01] <tomreyn> maybe, i'm not familiar with their service, but a quick look at their schematics seems to suggest this might work in your case.
[22:01] <tomreyn> (it's beyond the scope of #ubuntu, though)
[22:02] <jadenlian23> tomreyn: yeah i tried them a few times but maybe cause of my location (isp ) there arent too reliable
[22:03] <jadenlian23> the connection keeps failing
[22:04] <jadenlian23> i guess i the best i can do is cloud
[22:06] <tomreyn> jadenlian23: we can continue this conversation in #ubuntu-offtopic, if you're looking for more suggestions
[22:08] <jadenlian23> tomreyn: thats fine though, ill just use a cloud service
[22:09] <tomreyn> good luck!
[22:12] <jhutchins> Port forwarding should happen at the router/firewall, shouldn't require anything on the part of the ISP as long as the ISP is letting the traffic through in the first place.
[22:17] <sophie> in case anyone read the first part, there's a part 2 https://ubuntu.com/blog/how-are-we-improving-firefox-snap-performance-part-2
[22:57] <johnjaye> are the ubuntu live-server images replacements for server? i wanted to get a copy of 20.04 but i only see 'desktop' and 'live-server' isos for download
[22:59] <murmel> johnjaye: yes
[23:00] <johnjaye> ok. that wasn't clear to me from a cursory search. i saw someone saying live-server didn't have preseeding or ansible options so i wasn't sure
[23:00] <murmel> johnjaye: https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/install/autoinstall
[23:02] <johnjaye> ah cool!


 Yes I would mention it on the wiki after confirming it works
[06:58] <duflu> Also... good morning didrock, oSoMoN, seb128
[06:58] <didrocks> hey duflu!
[06:58] <seb128> re didrocks
[06:58] <seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
[06:59] <duflu> seb128, today is a better day :) You?
[06:59] <oSoMoN> duflu, I successfully tested that it works on my machine yesterday (you’ll need to turn on the #enable-accelerated-video flag in chrome://flags, it's off by default)
[07:00] <duflu> oSoMoN, Thanks, I will look
[07:02] <seb128> duflu, I'm not fully awake and I've a bit too many things on my todolist but I'm fine otherwise
[07:02] <seb128> reading about meson build system
[07:02] <seb128> jbicha, those GNOME updates switched to meson are not translators friendly :-/
[07:04] <duflu> Oh I forgot I'll need to refresh the Kaby Lake machine. That's the only one that does VP9, and VP9 seems to be the only codec YouTube likes to use these days
[07:13] <duflu> oSoMoN, does that include intel's proposed patch?
[07:14] <duflu> Ah yes I see
[07:14] <oSoMoN> duflu, yes
[07:15] <oSoMoN> duflu, I haven't tested VP9, but http://distribution.bbb3d.renderfarming.net/video/mp4/bbb_sunflower_1080p_60fps_normal.mp4 was decoded and rendered fine at ~12% CPU on my X230
[07:15] <duflu> oSoMoN, yeah cool. That's the perfect test for Ivy Bridge
[07:23] <duflu> oSoMoN, tried a Wayland session? I'm seeing the usual libva fails to init in a Wayland session. This causes a long delay on startup, and probably means VAAPI won't work there (because Chrome is an X app and libva requires DRI2, not DRI3 in Xwayland)
[07:24] <duflu> (you can see the error if you run chromium-browser from a terminal)
[07:34] <duflu> oSoMoN, Yes it's only working in Xorg sessions. We'll need to get a Chromium fix in as part of bug 1698287. Sadly there is no workaround to make it work in a Wayland session because it's an X11-only app
[07:34] <duflu> The fix is to just tell the app to try the wayland platform before trying x11
[07:38] <duflu> It's also a bit unstable but that's not surprising for Chromium 62
[07:39] <oSoMoN> duflu, yeah
[07:40] <duflu> oSoMoN, still looking good considering it's early days. That same initialization bug needs fixing in multiple locations
[07:47] <duflu> oSoMoN, actually a proper fix for Wayland sessions might not come till Chromium moves from X11 to Wayland. Do you know if people are working on that still?
[07:47] <oSoMoN> no idea, I'll need to check again
[07:48] <duflu> It could also be fixed if someone enhanced libva to support DRI2, but that feels like investing in old technology
[07:49] <duflu> I mean to support DRI3. It already supports DRI2
[07:49] <duflu> Maybe not so old
[07:49] <oSoMoN> yeah, I’ve seen in the bug report that you consider this unlikely to happen
[07:50] <duflu> oSoMoN, don't know. Seems there are multiple Intel engineers working on the various related projects
[07:50] <duflu> Anything could happen
[07:51] <oSoMoN> it'd be good to have a POC at intel to inform us about their plans
[07:56] <duflu> oSoMoN, anyway if you want to play local MP4 files I will soon have totem and mpv fixed for out-of-the-box support in both Xorg and Wayland
[07:56] <duflu> I mean I have the fixes. Just distro patches to do
[07:56] <oSoMoN> nice
[07:57] <oSoMoN> morning willcooke
[07:57] <oSoMoN> willcooke, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/sharing-files-via-tmp/1613 to follow up on our conversation yesterday
[08:01] <willcooke> o/
[08:05] <oSoMoN> https://blogs.igalia.com/tonikitoo/2017/05/17/chromium-musozone-update-h12017-wayland-x11/
[08:05] <willcooke> afternoon duflu.  I'm getting this error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25270562/
[08:06] <willcooke> wait, hold on - I think I was in a Wayland session as well, even though I told it not to
[08:07] <duflu> willcooke, good morning. You just missed me discussing that error with oSoMoN. It is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-vaapi-driver/+bug/1698287
[08:07] <duflu> But there is no simple workaround for Chromium :/
[08:07] <duflu> Other than "Log in to X"
[08:08] <seb128> hey willcooke
[08:11] <willcooke> CPU usage goes from ~ 100% to ~ 50%
[08:12] <willcooke> so that's a win
[08:12] <duflu> willcooke, oh good news in that area: https://www.igalia.com/nc/igalia-247/news/item/three-new-people-join-igalia/
[08:12] <duflu> Eleni was working on Chromium with Andy for a while
[08:17] <duflu> seb128, is it better if my future sponsorships are not assigned? Do people get confused if they are assigned?
[08:19] <oSoMoN> duflu, from that igalia reported dated from the 17th of May, there's active development and progress, but it doesn't look like it's been upstreamed yet
[08:19] <willcooke> http://imgur.com/a/dG08X
[08:19] <willcooke> before on the left, after on the right
[08:21] <duflu> oSoMoN, It is a hard problem. Chromium basically needs to become a display server, and each tab is a client
[08:21] <duflu> willcooke, I was hoping for a bit lower. What CPU is that?
[08:25] <duflu> Ah, never mind. I get about the same (adjusted for the fact I'm looking at a desktop server CPU)
[08:29] <seb128> duflu, no, I think assigned is fine, did anyone comment saying it's confusing?
[08:29] <seb128> duflu, sponsors tend to assume that if it's assigned to somebody who has upload right then that person is going to deal with the upload, but since you don't have upload rights there should be no confusion
[08:30] <duflu> seb128, I just recall seeing something on that topic in related wiki pages (syncs and SRUs).
[08:30] <duflu> Although these are not syncs or SRUs
[08:30] <seb128> right
[08:30] <seb128> well usual rule is to not assign to the people you need
[08:31] <seb128> e.g don't assign the bug to sponsors or sru team
[08:31] <seb128> just subscribe
[08:31] <seb128> but keeping it assigned to yourself is fine
[08:44] <willcooke> morning
[08:44] <willcooke> something odd happenened just now
[08:45] <willcooke> did you guys see my messages from 09:05 and 09:19?
[08:45] <willcooke> it's now 09:45
[08:46] <seb128> willcooke, I saw
 CPU usage goes from ~ 100% to ~ 50%
 so that's a win
 http://imgur.com/a/dG08X
 before on the left, after on the right
[08:48] <seb128> hum, python packaging question
[08:49] <seb128> if a package is shipping python files to a private dir, is it useful to byte compile those and if so is that something the tools can do for you or that you need a postinst/rm for?
[08:50] <seb128> e.g https://github.com/fossfreedom/alternative-toolbar/blob/debian/debian/postinst
[08:50] <seb128> (cyphermox raised that one as a weird thing to do in his MIR review)
[08:51] <seb128> wb willcooke
[08:51] <willcooke> :)
[08:51] <willcooke> still better than slack
[08:51] <willcooke> ;D
[08:56] <duflu> willcooke, Yes we saw and replied. That's bug 1698287
[08:57] <willcooke> duflu, cool!  (Didnt see  replies cos netsplit)
[08:58] <willcooke> duflu, I've got to jump on another call now, will be late for bluetooth meeting (or might not make it, sorry) (cc seb128)
[08:58] <duflu> willcooke, Not cool though. It requires a native port of the browser to Wayland really (if in a Wayland session)
[08:58] <duflu> OK, late is cool
[08:58] <willcooke> @ browser - Ah, I see
[08:59] <duflu> Or someone to greatly enhance libva
[08:59] <duflu> or Xwayland
[08:59] <willcooke> heh
[09:04] <seb128> duflu, chromium refuses to start for me so I'm going to be a bit late for the bluetooth meeting as well
[09:04] <duflu> No one there but me
[09:06] <seb128> is Konrad not around this week?
[09:10] <duflu> seb128, well he's not in IRC or the hangout. But is writing emails
[09:10] <duflu> seb128, that's OK. Let me give you another debdiff :)
[09:10] <seb128> duflu, if neither Konrad or Will are around and I'm fighting with chromium (and firefox doesn't do hangout) let's skip
[09:10] <seb128> haha
[09:11] <duflu> You think I'm kidding
[09:11]  * seb128 hides
[09:14] <duflu> Crap. I closed the hangout by mistake
[09:16] <duflu> seb128, no hurry. After the meetings I'm at EOD... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpv/+bug/1708102
[09:16] <seb128> duflu, let's skip the hangout as said, unless willcooke finishes his other meeting and want to chat a bit there
[09:17] <duflu> That's fine. I'm still there in case Will has time
[09:18] <seb128> duflu, debdiff looks fine, it's usually better to list the files you change in the debian/changelog though
[09:18] <seb128> like instead of "* Enable hardware acceleration by default"
[09:18] <seb128> you would have
[09:18] <seb128> * debian/mpv.conf.ubuntu, debian/rules:
[09:18] <seb128>   - Enable hardware acceleration by default
[09:18] <duflu> seb128, I was aiming to make readable changelogs. I thought that style was low value but I can do both in future
[09:19] <duflu> Too many people write unreadable changelogs
[09:19] <seb128> fair
[09:19] <seb128> the details on what files are impacted by a change make merges on debian a bit easier though
[09:19] <duflu> Yeah
[09:19] <seb128> especially when there is no packaging vcs to dig the commits
[09:20] <duflu> seb128, I can make another one if we're not meeting
[09:20] <seb128> duflu, don't bother redoing that one
[09:20] <seb128> it's for next time
[09:36] <seb128> unping about my python packaging question from earlier if anyone read that
[09:38] <duflu> I'm sure that's not a verb
[09:38] <duflu> Neither is ping though
[09:39] <pitti> it so is a verb amongst IRC people :)
[09:39] <seb128> hey pitti! wie gets?
[09:39] <pitti> it's even a (made-up) strong one :) ("he pung", as some people like to say ☺ )
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: ça va seb128 ! merci, je vais bien !
[09:40] <seb128> ça va bien ici aussi merci !
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: j'attends avec impatience nos vacances, ils commencent ce vendredi pour trois semaines
[09:44] <duflu> Hi pitti
[09:44] <pitti> duflu: hello! *wave*
[10:19] <seb128> pitti, où est-ce que vous allez en vacances ?
[10:21] <pitti> seb128: on va à la côte de Ouest des État-Unis
[10:21] <pitti> seb128: for the total eclipse, pour des parcs nationals, pour visiter l'usine de Boeing, etc.
[10:22] <seb128> ah, nice
[10:22] <seb128> pitti, enjoy!
[10:23] <pitti> seb128: merci ! je suppose que vous reste chez vous, avec votre petit enfant ?
[10:24] <seb128> pitti, oui, ici et visiter nos familles en France
[11:13] <seb128> popey, hey, change the dbus monitor command from yesterday by "dbus-monitor interface='org.freedesktop.Notifications'"
[11:20] <jbicha> seb128: is it meson or is it LP: #1688994 ?
[11:20] <jbicha> good morning
[11:22] <seb128> jbicha, that's the same thing
[11:22] <seb128> is that there seems there is no equivalent to "intltool-update -p" in the new build systems
[11:23] <seb128> I can't find how to update it manually with one command equivalent to ^ either
[11:23] <seb128> then if there is one we need to update the tools
[11:23] <jbicha> intltool was already being dropped by GNOME before the meson switch :(
[11:24] <jbicha> but I think meson requires dropping intltool? so it's getting worse :(
[11:25] <seb128> right, well under autotools&gettext we had standard make targets still
[11:26] <seb128> that seems to not even be the case anymore with meson
[11:26] <seb128> I asked about it on the gnome #i18n channel, let's see
[11:26] <seb128> otherwise I guess we are going to need to overwrite the dh_translations call in debian/rules for a bunch of packages until there is a proper solution
[11:26] <seb128> that wouldn't be the end of the world, that set of package is limited
[11:27] <seb128> still it's more work and annoying
[11:28] <jbicha> let me know when you have the debian/rules override and I can start adding it to packages
[11:29] <seb128> will do, thanks
[11:29] <jbicha> I'd like to cherry-pick https://github.com/hughsie/appstream-glib/commit/9df56f26f
[11:29] <seb128> one for Laney
[11:30] <jbicha> it might cause a few packages to ftbfs because the dh_install rules assume the old directory but I'd rather fix that now than in a few weeks
[11:30] <seb128> right
[11:31] <seb128> popey, do you use "solaar"?
[11:32] <popey> i don't know what that is
[11:32] <seb128> so no
[11:32] <seb128> "Solaar is a Linux device manager for Logitech's Unifying Receiver peripherals"
[11:32] <seb128> upstream guessed it might lead to issue like your power notification
[11:32] <popey> no then, i have no logitech devices
[11:32] <seb128> popey, anyway, did you see my updated command? please get the log and then we hopefully know what the issue is :-)
[11:33] <popey> ah, you updated it? let me see
[11:33] <popey> i have been draining the laptop battery for a bit so I can plug it in and capture any output, will update the command to make sure I get the right stuffs
[11:34] <seb128> thanks
[11:34] <jbicha> seb128: should I stop doing 3.26 updates until the translation problem is fixed/worked around?
[11:34] <seb128> jbicha, no, keep going, we still have the current template so worth cases we miss a few strings and I'm going to sort that out in the coming week
[11:35] <jbicha> ok
[11:35] <flocculant> tkamppeter: seeing bug 1709572 on Xubuntu since your change last Friday
[11:36] <jbicha> jibel: could you consider adding installing Chrome to the gnome-software test plan? see LP: #1708936 or LP: #1672424
[11:37] <seb128> flocculant, it should have a depends added on gir1.2-secret-1
[11:37] <seb128> tkamppeter, ^
[11:37] <seb128> on that note it's lunch time, bbl
[11:38] <flocculant> seb128: thanks - adding that package and all is well with the world :)
[12:01] <popey> seb128: success! :D
[12:01] <popey> (updated bug 1709194)
[12:15] <popey> willcooke: that issue I mentioned about apps taking 10+ seconds to start. found an AU post which has a solution. kill all apps, kill gnome-keyring-daemon, re-launch and then launch apps, everything launches instantly!
[12:15] <popey> https://askubuntu.com/questions/788075/ubuntu-16-04-some-applications-take-too-long-to-start-up
[12:15] <popey> worth remembering!
[12:18] <jbicha> popey: do you have a bug # for that?
[12:19] <popey> not yet, but it only happened today and I'm on 16.04
[12:19] <popey> will file it in moment
[12:20] <jbicha> does that issue happen with 16.04 too?
[12:21] <popey> I am on 16.04, and it happened here. willcooke said he'd seen it on 17.xx at some point too. I have only seen it on 16.04
[12:21] <popey> because I am a heavy 16.04 user, and only lightly use 17.xx
[12:27] <popey> bug 1689825 looks to cover it
[12:27] <popey> people suggesting removing/purging dbus-user-session as a workaround/solution
[12:29] <pitti> popey: dbus-user-session will totally break 16.04
[12:29] <pitti> we only started work on that for 16.10
[12:29] <jbicha> popey: the trigger for that bug is the flatpak ppa, I emailed Alexander Larsson about it a few weeks ago and got no response yet
[12:30] <popey> oof
[12:30] <popey> i do have that ppa on my system, good catch!
[12:31] <popey> do we need an upstream bug?
[12:33] <jbicha> upstream is talk to the PPA dev, maybe you'll have better luck than I did ;)
[12:34] <popey> heh, okay
[12:35] <popey> challenge accepted
[12:37] <jbicha> popey: do you have a Facebook account? would you be interested in verifying this bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=785726 and its SRUs?
[12:38] <jbicha> using GNOME Online Accounts
[12:38] <popey> jbicha: will take a look
[12:39] <jbicha> I didn't prepare the SRUs yet
[12:39] <popey> jbicha: lemme know when you have a deb I can try?
[12:39] <jbicha> could you verify the bug first? ;)
[12:39] <jbicha> I don't have a FB account
[12:41] <popey> oh, hah, on 16.04 or 17.10?
[12:42] <jbicha> either one, I haven't fixed it on 17.10 yet because I wanted to verify the bug before fixing it
[12:43] <popey> ok, will try both
[12:49] <popey> jbicha: success. https://twitter.com/gnomealex/status/895263690982928384
[12:54] <popey> jbicha: that facebook bug isn't exactly clear from a user perspective what the effect is. I connected my 17.10 system to facebook. Not sure how to confim whether it did or not.
[12:56] <jbicha> if you can still connect your account, then it might not be an important enough bug to SRU
[12:58] <popey> it certainly seems a bit broken. Now I added an account I can't view it or add another
[13:01] <jbicha> popey: could you file a LP bug for the FB issue that I can use for SRU tracking?
[13:04] <tkamppeter> flocculant, seb128, bug 1709572 fixed.
[13:05] <jdstrand> kenvandine (cc willcooke and jamesh): fyi, https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/68. I'm not sure who is tasked with getting snaps to run under wayland, but that PR gives some clues
[13:06] <jdstrand> kenvandine (cc willcooke and jamesh): you might want to see https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/wayland-dconf-and-xdg-runtime-dir/186/10
[13:06] <kenvandine> jdstrand, thx!
[13:06] <kenvandine> not sure who is working on that, but i'll make sure this gets looked at
[13:07] <jdstrand> kenvandine (cc willcooke and jamesh): note that PR shouldn't be committed as is (see comment I added today), but it highlights the things to be considered. the env vars and the symlink (we may not always need the symlink, see later responses to the forum post)
[13:08] <jdstrand> kenvandine (cc willcooke and jamesh): I didn't look very hard, but it seems that gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders may be sensitive to the wayland env vars
[13:08] <popey> jbicha: bug 1709621
[13:09] <jdstrand> kenvandine (cc willcooke and jamesh): not saying anything to be done there-- just keep an eye out for it
[13:10] <kenvandine> didrocks, ^^
[13:10] <kenvandine> didrocks, is that desktop helpers PR for wayland support something you can look at?
[13:11] <jdstrand> thanks for helping coordinate that work
[13:11] <kenvandine> jdstrand, thanks for pointing it out
[13:12] <didrocks> kenvandine: not nowdays, I'm on default experience for our desktop
[13:12] <didrocks> kenvandine: I think you are way closer than I am now due to handling the platform snap, are you happy to look at this?
[13:12] <kenvandine> sure
[13:16] <jdstrand> kenvandine: since you are looking at it, note that jamesh and I have been discussing how this might fit into his portals work which would remove the need to setup the symlink, but that is farther out
[13:17] <jdstrand> kenvandine: that's all in the forum
[13:17] <kenvandine> jdstrand, thx
[13:17] <kenvandine> jdstrand, yeah doesn't help for 17.10
[13:17] <jdstrand> kenvandine: I submitted https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3690 yesterday (for wayland interface). I expect that to land quickly
[13:18] <jdstrand> kenvandine: well, afaik his portals work is 17.10 material, but its snapd, so it can float in at any time
[13:19] <jdstrand> kenvandine: when pr 3690 lands, it'll need something along the lines of the snapcraft-desktop-helpers pr for people to use it
[13:20] <jdstrand> kenvandine: lastly, I am creating preliminary new interfaces for gnome-shell that uses only modern apis (tentatively called 'desktop')
[13:20] <kenvandine> jdstrand, so wayland as a new interface means app developers will need to specify that interface in their snap.  I fear some apps that should work will just fail
[13:20] <jdstrand> kenvandine: eg, no dbusmenu, etc, etc
[13:20] <kenvandine> wouldn't it be better for the desktop interface to support both wayland and x11?
[13:21] <kenvandine> ie app developers not care if it's wayland or x11, it's just a desktop
[13:21] <jdstrand> kenvandine: this is a complicated topic but is following the existing paradigm
[13:21] <jdstrand> kenvandine: that is true, but we want to be able to have people disconnect them
[13:22] <jdstrand> ie, if I'm using wayland, I should be able to disconnect the x11 interface
[13:22] <kenvandine> yeah, maybe super-interfaces?  that bundle them
[13:22] <kenvandine> but i bet this has been discussed :)
[13:22] <jdstrand> that is sorta what unity7 is now, and I think tht is a mistake
[13:23] <jdstrand> unity7 includes access for x11
[13:23] <jdstrand> in that case, it made some sense-- it couldn't run without it
[13:23] <jdstrand> but with the new 'desktop' interfacec, it could run with either wayland or x11
[13:24] <kenvandine> from a desktop users perspective, they usually aren't going to understand the difference in x11 or wayland or even know which they are running
[13:24] <jdstrand> kenvandine: my plan is to get the policy together, submit the PR and then ping you and jamesh to participate in the discussion
[13:24] <jdstrand> kenvandine: that's fine-- the developer will likely do [plugs: wayland, x11, desktop]
[13:24] <kenvandine> jdstrand, sounds good, thanks
[13:25] <jdstrand> kenvandine: they'll all autoconnect, but then a security conscious person can 'snap disconnect foo:x11'
[13:25] <kenvandine> ok
[13:25] <kenvandine> that's reasonable
[13:26] <jdstrand> I think it is reasonable for a developer to specify where it is expected to work
[13:26] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, when opening an attachment in thunderbird or a file in firefox, the file is written to /tmp and handed over to xdg-open (I assume). Do you know whether we can easily change the default location so that it would be somewhere under $HOME ?
[13:26] <jdstrand> since they have to test in all those places anyway
[13:28] <jdstrand> in the case of gnome-shell, it probably makes sense to plugs x11 by default in this transition period because mutter depends on Xwayland for a few things and wayland snaps sometimes connect to Xwayland for things
[13:29] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks for fixing the s-c-p missing depends
[13:29] <jdstrand> trying to force not using x11 would be a poor user experience. but, to support moving forward, we should be able to let people disconnect x11 so people can try it out
[13:29] <jdstrand> kenvandine: ^
[13:29] <kenvandine> jdstrand, you might want to leave appindicator access
[13:29] <kenvandine> yeah
[13:29] <seb128> jdstrand, you were working on snaps under wayland so we stayed out of it ... should we pick it up?
[13:29] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[13:29] <kenvandine> seb128, jdstrand did the interface
[13:29] <kenvandine> i need to tweak some stuff for desktop helpers
[13:30] <kenvandine> seb128, i'm going to pick up that part
[13:30] <flocculant> tkamppeter: thanks :)
[13:30] <kenvandine> but i guess i need the interface to land
[13:30] <kenvandine> or learn how to run my own snapd again :)
[13:30] <kenvandine> i had a script for that at one point :)
[13:30] <jdstrand> seb128: I've only been working on a part of it. willcooke and I sync'd at the product sprint. I'm tasked with the wayland interface and a base set of policy for the new 'desktop' interface. getting the snapcraft-desktop-helpers to work, the gnome platform snap, etc, etc is for the desktop team
[13:31] <kenvandine> seb128, and jdstrand had some good pointers for what needs tweaking
[13:31] <jdstrand> I really needed to get something going though, so I did that snapcraft-desktop-helpers PR to help you
[13:31] <seb128> kenvandine, ok
[13:31] <jdstrand> (I was blocked)
[13:31] <kenvandine> jdstrand, we appreciate it :)
[13:32] <seb128> jdstrand, right, fair enough, I though the wayland interface didn't land yet and was a pre-requirement to test the other bits
[13:32] <kenvandine> jdstrand, i'm having a terrible time with classic snaps... i had 2 classic snaps yesterday that ran one time
[13:32] <kenvandine> but won't start again :/
[13:32] <jdstrand> seb128: it hasn't landed, but is in a PR as of yesterday. it willland soon
[13:32] <kenvandine> seb128, it's in a PR
[13:33] <jdstrand> it is currently a single rule, so it is easy to test. snap install foo; snap connect foo:gnome-3-24-platform ... ; edit /var/lib/snapd/apparmor/profiles/snap.foo.foo to have the wayland rule ; apparmor_parser -r ... ; launch the app
[13:34] <jdstrand> I'm happy to help with advising how to test stuff
[13:34] <kenvandine> jdstrand, ok
[13:34] <jdstrand> kenvandine: oh, one other thing
[13:35] <jdstrand> kenvandine: running gnome-sudoku under wayland on xenial results in: (gnome-sudoku:3064): Gdk-WARNING **: Wayland compositor does not support xdg_shell interface, not using Wayland display
[13:35] <kenvandine> jdstrand, but that's after i'm running your snapd branch right?
[13:36] <jdstrand> kenvandine: if you use my snapd branch you don't have to do anything special (it adds the rule)
[13:36] <kenvandine> oh, i can add the rule without rebuilding snapd?
[13:36] <jdstrand> kenvandine: oh, well, you need to plugs wayland :)
[13:36] <kenvandine> ah, just apparmor :)
[13:36] <jdstrand> kenvandine: yes. if you don't want to rebuild snapd, just tack the rule on the profile
[13:36] <kenvandine> ah, cool!
[13:37] <jdstrand> kenvandine: snapd will refresh the profile though on reboot, reinstall, connect/disconnect, etc, so be aware of that
[13:37] <ogra_> cheating !
[13:37] <ogra_> :)
[13:37] <kenvandine> that's a great cheat though
[13:37] <jdstrand> it's convenient
[13:38] <jdstrand> I use it when developing interfaces to quickly iterate
[13:38] <jdstrand> when I'm happy, I copy it all over to the interface and then build a new snapd, retest
[13:39] <jdstrand> kenvandine: you saw the gnome-sudoku comment with wayland on xenial comment above? ^
[13:39] <kenvandine> yeah, i'll need to look into that
[13:39] <kenvandine> i guess it fell back to xwayland?
[13:40] <jdstrand> seb128, kenvandine: this actually worries me since I think it gets into the conversation with niemeyer re the gnome-3-24 snap. using gnome-3-24 with wayland doesn't work with xenial's wayland
[13:40] <jdstrand> kenvandine: well, no, cause I removed rules allowing to talk to X :)
[13:40] <kenvandine> :)
[13:40] <kenvandine> jdstrand, well we won't be running wayland on xenial
[13:41] <jdstrand> kenvandine: in *my* testing, I didn't plug unity7 or x11
[13:41] <jdstrand> kenvandine: then the desktop helper will likely need to be even smarter
[13:42] <jdstrand> kenvandine: because there are only series 16 snaps today
[13:42] <kenvandine> indeed
[13:42] <kenvandine> but 17.10 will be wayland and 16.04 will be x11
[13:42] <jdstrand> for Ubuntu default install
[13:42] <jdstrand> snaps go way beyond that
[13:42] <kenvandine> yes
[13:43] <kenvandine> but for the average desktop user, 16.04 users will be running unity7
[13:43] <jbicha> popey: shotwell doesn't support GOA yet
[13:43] <jdstrand> I agree it is unlikely to have many users on 16.04 using wayland in Ubuntu. but, derivatives or other distros that have an incompatible wayland with what is in the gnome-3-24 platform snap-- these are considerations
[13:44] <jdstrand> I wonder if there is a way to query the wayland socket for capabilities or version or something
[13:45] <jdstrand> I don't know if mutter supports that
[13:46] <jdstrand> but it is a little concerning that we already see an incompatibility between what is in 16.04 and what is in gnome-3-24
[13:46] <kenvandine> jdstrand, so you were running gnome-shell on 16.04 with wayland right?
[13:46] <jdstrand> kenvandine: yes
[13:47] <jdstrand> kenvandine: I abandoned the gnome-sudoku snap for testing that. I grabbed the gnome-logs-udt snap from the store (3.18 libs embedded) and hacked its wrapper to force wayland to test
[13:48] <jdstrand> the env var setup and symlink from the pr I pointed you at all worked fine for that
[13:48] <jdstrand> btw, there is a gnome-3-18 content snap in the store, but I don't know of anything that uses it
[13:49] <kenvandine> jdstrand, yeah
[13:49] <jdstrand> kenvandine: so, I think that's my full brain dump
[13:49] <kenvandine> jdstrand, appreciated!
[13:50] <kenvandine> i'll try to dig into that more
[13:50] <jdstrand> kenvandine: thanks!
[14:02] <jdstrand> kenvandine: oh, one more thing-- I wasn't able to locally snapcraft cleanbuild gedit or gnome-sudoku. probably because I was using xenial apt sources
[14:03] <kenvandine> jdstrand, yeah... you have to include the backport PPA
[14:03] <kenvandine> which i don't think you can do in cleanbuild
[14:03] <kenvandine> LP lets you build with the PPA though
[14:10] <seb128> shrug
[14:10] <seb128> jdstrand, those problems you listed on the forum are not specific to the platform are they?
[14:11] <seb128> jdstrand, we would have the same wayland on xenial issue with gtk bundled with the app
[14:11] <seb128> jdstrand, same for using dbus services
[14:12] <kenvandine> seb128, i think you are right
[14:13] <jdstrand> seb128: they are not specific to the platform in that any content snap might have related issues. why I believe it is relevant is that it doesn't work on the same series the base snap is even built from (ie, 16.04 with series 16 snapd). it then may be 'specialized' and something the publisher needs to make sure consumers use correctly
[14:14] <seb128> jdstrand, I don't understand how that has to do with "content"
[14:14] <kenvandine> jdstrand, the alternative for an app developer would be to build gtk and all the depends into their snap, which would run into the same issue
[14:14] <seb128> jdstrand, if you built gedit with that ppa bundling the libs you would have the exact same issues no?.
[14:14] <jdstrand> put another way-- you want the world to auto-connect to this content interface, but the world won't work properly
[14:14] <seb128> how so?
[14:15] <seb128> it would work as properly as if they bundled the same content
[14:15] <didrocks> it's the base issue that any flatpak or snap have, backward compatibility and services
[14:15] <jdstrand> this conversation should be done in the forum. niemeyer needs to be present
[14:15] <seb128> jdstrand, the topic you commented on is that conversation
[14:15] <jdstrand> to me, a content snap that anything is allowed to connect to should reasonably work on the series it targets
[14:16] <seb128> but I don't understand what he tries to say
[14:16] <jdstrand> seb128: yes, but we are now talking here :)
[14:16] <seb128> and it's going in loop
[14:16] <jdstrand> niemeyer isn't here
[14:16] <kenvandine> it would work in the desktop environment provided in the LTS, gnome-shell is universe in 16.04
[14:16] <jdstrand> kenvandine: but snapd != Ubuntu
[14:16] <seb128> jdstrand, right, I though you might be able to make me understand what he means because the discussion is going nowhere on the forum
[14:16] <seb128> I guess I just going to give up
[14:16] <jdstrand> seb128: I am not representing niemeyer. I mentioned a concern I have about socket protocols and services
[14:17] <seb128> jdstrand, right, and I was asking why you think your concern about socket protocols and services wouldn't impact apps that bundle the same content
[14:17] <seb128> which is what I don't understand
[14:17] <jdstrand> because I don't think that the content interface design is handling well
[14:17] <seb128> there is no reason having the content mounted or bundled should make a difference
[14:18] <seb128> but what does it has to do with the content?
[14:18] <kenvandine> if gedit built all the reverse depends in the snap would have the same issue
[14:18] <jdstrand> the content interface is meant to allow a specific publisher to bundle there stuff so that leaf snaps can consume it
[14:18] <seb128> the issue is that gnome 3.24 is made to work with recent wayland
[14:18] <seb128> if you were to bundle gnome 3.24 you would have the same issue
[14:18] <jdstrand> you want to make a content interfacec for the world to use
[14:18] <didrocks> same with every services, and a shim if services aren't around
[14:19] <didrocks> that's going to take some years though, from calendar to contact info to…
[14:19] <jdstrand> seb128: but if you bundle gnome3.24 yourself, it won't work on the series you are targeting
[14:19] <jdstrand> yu would need to change your snap to work
[14:20] <seb128> why not?
[14:20] <jdstrand> seb128: you just said it wouldn't
[14:20] <jdstrand> 09:18 < seb128> if you were to bundle gnome 3.24 you would have the same issue
[14:20] <seb128> I don't understand how it's different from the content interface case
[14:20] <jdstrand> the issue is that it doesn't work on wayland in 16.04
[14:20] <seb128> right
[14:20] <seb128> well that's a bug
[14:20] <jdstrand> so that is a bug in your snap
[14:20] <kenvandine> yeah, so any app using the newer gnome libs will have that problem
[14:20] <jdstrand> that you would address
[14:20] <jdstrand> in your snap
[14:20] <kenvandine> nothing to do with the content interfae
[14:20] <seb128> the gnome-3-24 snap is targetting xenial and we should fix it to work on xenial
[14:21] <seb128> you found a bug
[14:21] <ogra_> all snaps are targeting xenial
[14:21] <seb128> but gedit with gtk built from upstream source would have the exact same issue
[14:21] <ogra_> and xenial only
[14:21] <seb128> right
[14:21] <ogra_> there is nothing else
[14:21] <seb128> exactly
[14:21] <jdstrand> if you have a content interface that claims to work everywhere (which auto-connecting strongly implies), then you need to make it work everywhere
[14:21] <seb128> so a snap bundling gtk would have the same issue
[14:21]  * mdeslaur gets popcorn
[14:21] <seb128> it works on the serie you target
[14:21] <kenvandine> so i guess we need to be able to build the gnome libs with an older version of libwayland
[14:21] <ogra_> a snap bundling the very latest gtk would still be built against xenial
[14:21] <seb128> = xenial
[14:21] <seb128> ogra_, as does our platform snap
[14:21] <ogra_> right
[14:22] <seb128> so it's no difference
[14:22] <ogra_> thats the guaranteee that snaps give you
[14:22] <jdstrand> but you've already said it isn't supported in certain situations. which is fine to say for your published snaps, but not necessarily ok for everyone else
[14:22] <seb128> the issue is that gtk 3.22 doesn't know how to talk to old wayland
[14:22] <seb128> jdstrand, I didn't say that
[14:22] <jdstrand> (I mean, maybe it is-- this is a conversation about how the content interface should work)
[14:22] <seb128> and I think it was a mistake for kenvandine  to say that
[14:22] <kenvandine> indeed ;)
[14:22] <seb128> gtk on xenial should be able to talk to the wayland from xenial
[14:22] <jdstrand> seb128: kenvandine said that 16.04's wayland is not supported
[14:22] <jdstrand> ok
[14:22] <jdstrand> well
[14:22] <seb128> that was an error to say imho
[14:23] <jdstrand> this conversation should be in the forum
[14:23] <seb128> I'm not discussing more in the forum
[14:23] <ogra_> but then you cant hide it from niemeyer :P
[14:23] <jdstrand> I think it is important to understand whee niemeyer is coming from
[14:23] <seb128> it's like playing chess with a pigeon
[14:23] <ogra_> just speed up your pidgeons then :)
[14:24] <ogra_> jet-pidgeons FTW
[14:24] <jdstrand> it is simply that the content interface is designed for a particular use case-- sharing content for the same publisher. the publisher can dictate any terms she wants for her own snaps
[14:24] <seb128> jdstrand, I'm trying to understand but nobody is wanting to explain what they have in their head
[14:24] <seb128> jdstrand, it's fine and I'm good with that
[14:24] <jdstrand> now, extending the content interface to the world has not been given a lot of though. so niemeyer is trying to work through that
[14:24] <jdstrand> thought*
[14:24] <seb128> then the snap team shouldn't have recommended us to build a platform using the content interface to reduce snap sizes
[14:24] <jdstrand> it isn't adversarial, it is trying to work through what everything means and to make sure everything works well going forward
[14:25] <jdstrand> why not?
[14:25] <seb128> because you just said it was not designed for that case
[14:25] <jdstrand> if Canonical is going to upload 20 gnome snaps then the content interface is perfect to support those 20
[14:25] <seb128> well it's not
[14:25] <jdstrand> another publisher could do the same with their content snap and 250 snaps
[14:25] <seb128> apparently there is a problem with the "underline layer"
[14:25] <jdstrand> or whatever
[14:25] <seb128> which nobody would explain to us
[14:26] <jdstrand> it is when a particular snap is for everyone that things need to be thought through more
[14:26] <seb128> well if it's for our 30 apps then we might hit that underlining layer issue
[14:26] <seb128> so I would still like people to explain what the issue is
[14:26] <kenvandine> we just want to make it as easy as possible for gnome/gtk app developers to snap their apps
[14:26] <jdstrand> seb128: yes, but it is limited to your snaps-- you can gate and fix and use edge and all those tools
[14:26] <seb128> there is no reason that a desgin problem would be an issue for external snaps and not ours
[14:27] <seb128> I don't want to break&fix
[14:27] <jdstrand> none of those tools exist in ways tht work well when not from the same publisher
[14:27] <seb128> I want to understand the problem and don't break
[14:27] <jdstrand> of course
[14:27] <seb128> so please somebody tell us what that underlining layer issue is?
[14:27] <jdstrand> and niemeyer is trying to understand the issues to not break too
[14:27] <seb128> and what is the underlining layer?
[14:28] <jdstrand> I can't speak for niemeyer. please take to the forum
[14:28] <seb128> I did
[14:28] <seb128> a said that's going nowhere
[14:28] <seb128> so I guess it's end of discussion
[14:28] <kenvandine> i had said we would support this the same way we would support SRUs
[14:28] <kenvandine> same level of support
[14:28] <kenvandine> so committed to fixing issues
[14:28] <jdstrand> like I said-- I understand the angle he is coming from. I had my own separate concern. I recognize there are issues with the content snap design so participated in the conversation
[14:28] <seb128> there is no point discussing with somebody who doesn't want to discuss but just make his point
[14:28] <seb128> and be right
[14:28] <seb128> and ignore what you say anyway
[14:29] <seb128> jdstrand, -content
[14:29] <seb128> jdstrand, there are issues with the snap design
[14:29] <seb128> you have the same issues with the core snap and glibc
[14:29] <jdstrand> I'm sorry, but this is getting unproductive. I cannot represent him. I can't mediate the conversation when he isn't even present
[14:29] <seb128> nothing there is specific to the platform
[14:30] <jdstrand> if you are frustrated I suggest taking it to hangout
[14:32] <kenvandine> seb128, so back to my comment... do we want to support the gnome-shell/wayland scenario for 16.04?  I was really thinking our priority was what was in main
[14:33] <kenvandine> i hadn't been testing gnome-shell/wayland from 16.04
[14:33] <kenvandine> well, the wayland interface wasn't available :)
[14:33] <kenvandine> but i wasn't testing gnome-shell
[14:35] <seb128> I don't think wayland is usuable in 16.04
[14:35] <seb128> maybe we can build the gtk backport without that backend
[14:35] <kenvandine> that's a good idea
[15:20] <seb128> could somebody try to install gnome-characters from gnome-software in artful and tell me if they also get a dialog asking them to enable universe?
[15:21] <kenvandine> seb128, sure
[15:21] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[15:22] <kenvandine> seb128, oh, i guess i should disable universe first?
[15:22] <seb128> no
[15:22] <seb128> that's my issue
[15:22] <seb128> I can apt install that deb and I've universe enabled
[15:22] <didrocks> (let me double confirm)
[15:22] <seb128> still it tells me that
[15:22] <didrocks> oh "starting"
[15:22] <kenvandine> seb128, didn't prompt me
[15:22] <seb128> k, thanks for testing
[15:23] <seb128> I can install other things from universe, it's weird
[15:23] <didrocks> didn't prompt me either
[15:23] <seb128> thanks
[15:24] <didrocks> yw
[15:24] <didrocks> I have universe enabled on the same line in sources.list
[15:25] <didrocks> is it the same for you or separate lines?
[15:25] <didrocks> like "main universe…" all on a single line
[15:25] <kenvandine> separate line here
[15:27] <seb128> separate
[15:29] <didrocks> so not that :/
[15:30] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/332594099/universe.png
[15:31] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/332594162/universe.png rather
[15:31] <seb128> well it's the same but I posted a duplicate so deleted one
[15:34] <jbicha> I believe seb has the g-software from artful-proposed installed, right?
[15:34] <seb128> sometime "installing" doesn't change
[15:34] <seb128> oh right, sorry
[15:34] <seb128> I forget that still in there only
[15:34] <seb128> https://bug786058.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=357279
[15:45] <seb128> jbicha, you do as well right? ;-) do you have the issue?
[15:55] <jbicha> yes, no :)
[17:43] <jbicha> seb128: gnome-control-center just switched to the new "shell" in preparation for 3.25.90
[18:17] <willcooke> night all
[21:43] <seb128> jbicha, is it feature complete? from the discussions I had a GUADEC they didn't believe it had lot of testing yet
[21:43] <seb128> seems another low quality move from GNOME :(
[21:52] <prepp> kk
[22:32] <jbicha> seb128: yes, it's feature complete, it just needs more testing and polishing
[22:32] <Guest46914> libreoffice 5.4 has been in debian unstable for 12 days, and debian import freeze isn't until 2017-08-24, so will it be imported for 17.10?
[22:33] <jbicha> Guest46914: yes, LibreOffice's release cycle is basically designed *for* Ubuntu's release cycle
[22:38] <Guest46914> oh wow, great! thanks!