[09:15] <KBar> I found a workaround to bug #1950947
[09:17] <KBar> Anyone who can do it programmatically and propose a patch?
[16:12] <xu-irc67w> hello everyone! I  need to know which restricted-extras I must choose for my Xubuntu: umbutu-restricted-extras or xubuntu-restricted-addons?
[16:14] <xu-irc67w> because the bash doesn't found the xubuntu-restricted-extras


[12:31] <Bilange> hey guys, are you responsible for the "GreatFeaturesofUbuntu" wiki page by any chance?
[12:31] <mdke> Bilange: yes, we wrote it, although the flash tour has since been put on hold for this release
[12:32] <Bilange> okay, in other words, I guess its too late to send suggestions about this, right?
[12:32] <mdke> Bilange: if you send suggestions, they will get taken into account if it gets produced for edgy
[12:33] <Bilange> okay :) so, where can I send them?
[12:33] <mdke> Bilange: bottom of the page?
[12:34] <Bilange> ah, fine. I thought that if there was no "discussion" section or a /talk subpage, well... discussions would be sent elsewhere
[12:34] <mdke> Bilange: you can add either :) a discussion section sounds good
[12:59] <ompaul> is there a category documentation for IRC ?
[12:59] <mdke> ompaul: what do you mean?
[12:59] <ompaul> is there an IRC directory
[01:00] <ompaul> I have this kind of thing and want to start a serious cull of duplication https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCResourcePage
[01:02] <mdke> ompaul: do you mean "is there a category irc"?
[01:02] <ompaul> mdke, I suppose I do
[01:02] <mdke> doesn't seem to be
[01:03] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCategory
[01:03] <ompaul> thanks
[01:04] <ompaul> gotcha
[01:04] <ompaul> I'll come back next year :)
[01:05] <mdke> a CategoryIRC might not be a bad idea actually
[01:06] <ompaul> yeap, I had misunderstood what Category Documentation was, so I have to change the pages off that to cleanup
[01:08] <mdke> yeah, don't add CategoryDocumentation to something that isn't documentation
[01:08] <mdke> otherwise it will get moved to the new wiki :)
[01:11] <ompaul> it is documentation but it needs a "whole lotta love"
[01:12] <mdke> hang on ompaul
[01:12] <mdke> ompaul: what page are you referring to?
[01:13] <ompaul> mdke, this and anything that it links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCResourcePage
[01:15] <mdke> ompaul: right. Just to be clear, the move of wiki documentation is _ALL_ documentation, regardless of quality. So the roughest page is going, and the best. When deciding what to tag with CategoryDocumentation, the question is: is this a help document, or is it a community document? If the former, please tag it with CategoryDocumentation
[01:16] <ompaul> and we can have more than one category
[01:16] <ompaul> sorry that is a question, too tired to rephase it
[01:16] <mdke> ompaul: yes
[01:16] <mdke> I'm not sure which of the two things that page is
[01:17] <ompaul> what it wants to be is a definitive list of things you should look at if you want to know *all* about irc
[01:17] <mdke> yeah, which is partly a community thing
[01:18] <ompaul> more like an informed index of the resources you can read about, then the others should stop doing two jobs and it should get nice and neat
[01:19] <mdke> so, you think it should be on the help wiki or the community wiki?
[01:20] <ompaul> it is help, as I see it, you usually only want irc if you want to access the irc community for help, direction or participation
[01:20] <mdke> ok, fine by me. Tag it up, and it'll get moved
[01:21] <ompaul> thanks
[01:30] <Burgundavia> DBO, are you Jason Smith?
[01:30] <mdke> yeah, he is
[01:30] <DBO> only slightly
[01:30] <DBO> yes I know, i been doing lots of editing
[01:30] <DBO> trying to get KDE working right (KDE is hard to get working with Xgl)
[01:31] <Burgundavia> DBO, on telling people to install, plesae don't use apt-get, simply tell people which packages to install
[01:31] <DBO> Burgundavia, oh that was you who changed that?
[01:31] <DBO> hehehe, ok...
[01:31] <Burgundavia> yep
[01:31] <DBO> I was like "who removed my beautiful cut and paste commands?"
 What's on your mind?
[04:06] <philipacamaniac> mdke: once everything is moved over, will there be mechanisms for sorting articles by Ubuntu version?
[04:07] <mdke> philipacamaniac: everything will basically be the same as it is now. We can talk about that, but we wanted to take things one step at a time
[04:08] <philipacamaniac> mdke: okay, talking about it, there are far too many "Hoary" or "Breezy" specific articles, and others provide methods for several versions
[04:08] <mdke> i agree, we need to sort that out
[04:09] <mdke> we can think about it after the move
[04:10] <philipacamaniac> mdke: agreed, I can wait :) , but there is one more - translations
[04:10] <mdke> shoot
[04:10] <philipacamaniac> heh
[04:10] <mdke> i mean, go ahead
[04:10] <philipacamaniac> oh
[04:10] <philipacamaniac> heh
[04:11] <philipacamaniac> moin doesn't seem to have many translation-oriented features. I see that you can change the default language in preferences. but where is the process for translating articles?
[04:12] <mdke> you take an article, translate it, and paste it in another page
[04:12] <mdke> we generally prefer translation to go on on a different wiki
[04:12] <mdke> language specific wikis are better
[04:12] <philipacamaniac> mdke: agreed, but do you only do English documentation at help.ubuntu.com?
[04:13] <mdke> philipacamaniac: on the wiki, it is mostly English, but some people put other languages there, we can't stop them
[04:14] <mdke> as for the static pages, for 6.06 we are making translations available too, but languages which have their own sites should host their own, if possible
[04:14] <mdke> it's just easier for users to find things. If you're french, you go to ubuntu-fr.org, etc
[04:16] <mdke> i have to sleep
[04:16] <mdke> cya later
[04:16] <philipacamaniac> adios
[06:14] <crimsun> I wonder if it's possible to merge/mark duplicate threads on the forum
[06:43] <LaserJock> crimsun: delete and lock too? ;-)
[06:44] <crimsun> LaserJock: just wondering (unlikely), since I'm about to venture into the forums and triage sound-related bugs
[06:45] <ghee22> crimsun: on google groups or digg.com whenever create a topic, it searches for related topics already in existance based on key words.. perhaps this prevent dupes?
[06:46] <crimsun> ghee22: no, I'm looking more for functionality like in Debian's BTS or Malone where we can merge duplicate reports
[06:46] <crimsun> probably a forum admin's job, though
[07:08] <Madpilot> hi all
[07:10] <Burgundavia> hey Madpilot
[07:10] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
[08:49] <Burgundavia> hmm, laying out text in Inkscape sucks
[08:49] <Burgundavia> too bad scribus has a terrible UI
[08:50] <Madpilot> for laying out text, it's got a better UI than Inkscape, evidently ;)
[08:50] <Burgundavia> yes, scribus needs a gtk update
[08:51] <Madpilot> um, it's a KDE app... and the scribus devs have been known to get irritated at "Scribus needs a GTK port" trolls on the scribus ML
[08:52] <Burgundavia> actually, it is a QT app, not a KDE one
[08:52] <Burgundavia> just planning out a "you just Ubuntu" page
[08:52] <Madpilot> a what?
[08:53] <Burgundavia> a help page with common questions
[08:53] <Burgundavia> designed to be handed out for people who have just received an Ubuntu computer
[08:53] <Madpilot> nifty.
[08:54] <LaserJock> great, that's just what we need, another FAQ help page ;-)
[08:54] <Burgundavia> this is designed for print
[08:54] <Burgundavia> a very different beast
[08:54] <Madpilot> we need more dead-tree products
[08:55] <Burgundavia> and no, it is designed to cover the very basics
[08:55] <Madpilot> "That is not a cup holder"
[08:55] <LaserJock> kinda like ESA, but maybe more Q&A?
[08:55] <Burgundavia> currently I only have four topics on it: windows/ubuntu app names, how to install, start menu/app menu and audio video issues
[08:55] <Burgundavia> then a "how do I get more help"
[08:55] <Burgundavia> that seem right for the biggest first four issues?
[08:56] <Madpilot> you could do pages of Windows->Ubuntu equivilent apps, I'd think
[08:56] <Burgundavia> yep, this is just 5 or 6 big ones
[08:57] <Burgundavia> outlook, IE, MS office
[08:57] <Madpilot> gaim?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> quite a few
[08:58] <Madpilot> Outlook Express is probably the most common
[08:59] <LaserJock> I use thunderbird right now but I used to use Outlook Express and most of my family (linux illiterate) do too
[08:59] <Madpilot> Virusinstall Express ;)
[09:00] <LaserJock> I thought that was IE
[09:00] <dsas> I know of two people who use a real mail client (got them both to use thunderbird), I need to know more geeks.
[09:01] <Burgundavia> here is the breakdown, afaik
[09:01] <Burgundavia> students: hotmail
[09:01] <Burgundavia> old people: outlook
[09:01] <Madpilot> geeks: gmail
[09:02] <Burgundavia> yep, but I am exluding them, because they are a known quantity
[09:02] <LaserJock> bah, real geeks have their own mail server and use mutt ;-)
[09:03] <dsas> Maybe my problem is not knowing old people then ;), that and ISPs provide webmail which satisfies the two email using old people I know.
[09:06] <Madpilot> robitaille, bonus geek points if you manage to combine the two somehow ;)
[09:07] <LaserJock> I do that too
[09:07] <LaserJock> gmail is where my @ubuntu.com goes and all the MLs get procmail+mutt/thunderbird
[09:08] <robitaille> Madpilot:  it's easy to do via pop.  But I prefer the gmail web interface for my home emails since I move between various computers.  But at work I use mutt for my work emails
[02:58] <jbailey> Hi!  A couple quick thoughts:
[02:58] <jbailey>  * help.ubuntu.com doesn't seem to have a search option.  I wonder if it's worth putting a link to google at least or something?
[02:59] <jbailey>  * Part of the job of the support folks that we've hired is to help write knowledgebase articles based on actual support cases that we get.
[03:00] <jbailey> For this, I'm not sure the best way to integrate this into existing documentation efforts.  Right now they've posted them to the wiki, but I'd like to actually have a formal knowledgebaseish thing.
[03:00] <jbailey> I wrote a spec a while ago for how this could look in launchpad.
[03:00] <jsgotangco> hi guys
[03:01] <jbailey> Heya Jerome.
[04:33] <jsgotangco> did yelp just die?
[04:34] <dsas_> jsgotangco: I don't have any toc
[04:34] <jsgotangco> right
[04:35] <dsas_> hmm, I just upgraded scrollkeeper and ubuntu-docs I think.
[04:35] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:38] <dsas_> unterminated entity error with /usr/share/yelp/info.xml according to stderr can't see what it is though
[04:40] <jbailey> For those types of errors, I usually open it with firefox.
[04:40] <dsas_> actually line 32 looks odd, but I have no idea.
[04:40] <jbailey> It tends to put a helpful red mark at the broken spot.
[04:40] <dsas_> hmm, firefox has no complaints.
[04:56] <jsgotangco> it is probably the scrollkeeper db not being updated durign the actual update
[04:56] <jsgotangco> sometimes it happens
[07:08] <mhz> hi doc people
[07:08] <mdke> jbailey: wiki sounds like a good start. Is everything tagged with CategoryDocumentation?
[07:09] <jbailey> mdke: Pretty unlikely so far.
[07:09] <jbailey> mdke: I'll ask them about it later.
[07:09] <mhz> I am starting to translate some Edubuntu pages from wiki. highvoltage has already mentioned DocTeam will have another Moin instance for doc only. Good idea, considering the current number of wiki pages.
[07:09] <mdke> jbailey: when the documentation moves wikis, only stuff tagged with CategoryDocumentation gets moved
[07:09] <jbailey> Ah, okay.
[07:10] <jbailey> So the question for me is how to work with the knowledgebase and the docteam.
[07:10] <jbailey> I'd ideally like all the knowledgebase articles to conform to a style, which means an editor.
[07:10] <mhz> So, I was wondering, should I keep my translations under my wiki homepage in the mean time? Also, is there a due date for such new instance?
[07:10] <jbailey> I also don't know how likely community contributors are to be.
[07:10] <mdke> jbailey: a human editor you mean?
[07:10] <jbailey> mdke: Yeah.
[07:10] <mdke> right, sounds cool
[07:11] <mdke> jbailey: and you're not completely happy with using the wiki?
[07:11] <jbailey> mdke: wikis make it very hard to enforce approval through an editor.
[07:11] <mhz> jbailey: moin 1.5.x includes a wysiwyg editor
[07:11] <jbailey> I also have some dreams about making annotations specific to releases in case things change over time.
[07:12] <mdke> mhz: he's not talking about that sort of editor
[07:12] <jbailey> And then the dream of making the core knowledge available to derivatives or other distributions, and having distro-specific stuff be all annotations.
[07:12] <mdke> jbailey: so the new wiki will have access control, that can enforce approval
[07:12] <jbailey> mdke: That would solve my immediate concern.
[07:12] <mdke> jbailey: just like the website you can have pages which are invisible except to the relevant group
[07:12] <mdke> then when it's approved, you can make it visible
[07:12] <jbailey> Especially if I could say, make https://docs.ubuntu.com/knowledgebase/FOO all approve-on-write.
[07:13] <mdke> jbailey: is this not something that would integrate well with existing wiki documentation? you'd want a separate section?
[07:14] <mhz> mdke: so, keep translated pages under my wiki homepage in wiki.edubuntu.org, in tecnocimiento.cl, or in ubuntu-cl.org wiki?
[07:14] <jbailey> I don't know that it would integrate well or not.
[07:14] <mdke> mhz: translations generally work better on a specific language website, so I'd suggest ubuntu-cl
[07:14] <jbailey> When I think of a knowledgebase, I think of a particular format of: 1) Reduced Question. 2) Recipe answer.
[07:14] <jbailey> And so having the style particularily reflect that.
[07:15] <mdke> i think it can integrate
[07:15] <jbailey> The rest of our documentation doesn't seem to be targetted at that, but I'm not saying no to anything here. =)
[07:15] <mdke> i like the idea of everything being structured by subject matter, obviously style can vary
[07:15] <jbailey> If you're familiar with the old faq-o-matic systems, it's the type of thing I'm thinking of.
[07:16] <jbailey> So eventually, we'd need categories, etc.
[07:16] <mdke> I'm not familiar with those systems
[07:16] <jbailey> It was wiki style, where people could post questions which would get classified.
[07:16] <jbailey> The answers were edittable.
[07:16] <jbailey> It's editting intensive, though.
[07:17] <jbailey> And they never tended to get high quality like Novell's Technical Information Documents, or Microsoft's Technet.
[07:17] <mdke> what always concerns me is that the documentation retains an obviously accessible structure, I have an allergy to a documentation resource which is structured by style rather than subject matter. So when I see a site which has "Howtos", "knowledgebase", and "FAQs", I know that I won't know where to start looking
[07:18] <mdke> so I always try and push for integrating different styles of documentation
[07:19] <jbailey> Yeah.
[07:19] <mdke> jbailey: have you got some examples already we can look at?
[07:19] <jbailey> I haven't thought this through enough beyond the fact that technet and Novell's TIDs are really useful.
[07:19] <jbailey> Of Ubuntu ones?  No.  I know Kurt's written a couple, but I haven't looked at them.
[07:20] <jbailey> (and don't know which ones they are)
[07:20] <jbailey> And we havne't talked about style or anything.
[07:20] <mdke> ok. Certainly try and get them tagged with CategoryDocumentation asap if you think they should be moved with the documentation to the new wiki
[07:20] <mdke> I'm hoping that we can do the move soon
[07:20] <mdke> then we can talk about if and how they can be integrated and so on
[07:26] <mdke> jbailey: as for the search, we didn't have time to work on that, hopefully we can get one in there eventually.
[07:26] <jbailey> Sure.  That's why I figured maybe an iframe or one of those forms that just takes you to google.
[07:27] <jbailey> I used to know how to cook those up, but it's been a couple years since I've done it.
[07:27] <mdke> yeah, it's probably not hard
[07:28] <mdke> but we'd have to add it to all the html docs which are generated from xml
[07:29] <jbailey> Nah, just the front page.
[07:29] <mhz> highvoltage: oh, one other thing regarding drupal site, "Related Projects" menu should have Xubuntu too, or not?
[07:29] <mhz> ooops
[07:29] <mhz> sorry, wrong tab channel :)


[05:38] <toast13> Hi. I've installed Ubuntu 17.04beta2 with an encrypted home. Now I've got the problem that the swap file cannot be mounted and the boot process waits 90s to continue. Any solution available?
[10:30] <Isra> Hello I have a problem with zesty, I have noticed that I am not able to install Skype (beta version) or discord
[10:31] <Isra> I tried installing discord using the terminal and gave me this error
[10:31] <Isra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24252871/
[10:32] <Isra> I was able to install both using Ubuntu software on LTS of Ubuntu
[10:32] <Isra> Is it a good idea to go and search for those dependencies and install them?
[10:45] <jtaylor> Isra: have you tried running apt install -f?
[19:38] <maxb> I seem to have a problem of systemd-resolved not actually resolving anything at all in zesty, does it work for anyone in a standard DHCP laptop scenario?
[19:48] <hggdh> maxb: works for me
[19:48] <maxb> hmm. I suppose I have debugging to do then


[01:43]  * cyberanger throws a flashbang into the channel, trying to make some noise....
[02:21] <Unit193> That'd do it.
[02:22] <cyberanger> Lol, seems the channel has shrunk again....


[03:19] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: -installer is all fixed up.
[03:19] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, i.e./
[03:19] <smartboyhw> ？
[03:19] <OvenWerks> both in the branch and my ppa
[03:20] <OvenWerks> all gui now
[03:20] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, oh great:)
[03:20] <smartboyhw> We can release it soon enough, just needs the power of micahg and another MOTU
[03:20] <OvenWerks> micah has already checked it, just waiting for second review.
[03:21] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, ask in #ubuntu-motu might be a better idea.
[03:22] <OvenWerks> The needs packaging bug is still undecided, maybe it should be something more.
[06:12] <astraljava> xequence: Yeah, progress is nice. Been standing still for way too long. And thanks!
[06:18] <TheDrums> astraljava: Hello!
[06:20] <xequence> OvenWerks: what's the bug number?
[06:23] <astraljava> TheDrums: Hi!
[06:51] <xequence> OvenWerks: I asked for a reviewer on #ubuntu-motu, but if no one answers, I'll post to the ubuntu-motu mail list
[07:44] <smartboyhw> cub, welcome back:)
[07:44] <cub> thanks smartboyhw, it was difficult today. :P
[07:44] <smartboyhw> cub, why?
[07:44] <cub> Symantec antivirus had crapped up my work mac
[07:44] <cub> 1,5 later of reinstalling apps
[07:45] <smartboyhw> cub, hah
[07:45] <cub> had to change irc client even
[07:45] <cub> even after reinstalling and so on xchat remained broken *sigh*
[07:47] <cub> LimeChat to the rescue. Horrible fonts though..:D
[07:48] <cub> Still summer holiday, smartboyhw?
[07:56] <smartboyhw> cub, yes
[07:56] <smartboyhw> Until 1st September
[07:57] <smartboyhw> I will start school at 2nd
[12:27] <smartboyhw> Welcome xequence :)
[12:29] <xequence> smartboyhw: Thanks. I'm back att debconf.
[12:29] <xequence> We just took a group photo. The photographer stood on a hill, put the camera on, and then ran slowly down 50m to be in the photo himself
[12:32] <smartboyhw> ：O
[12:36] <xequence> good thing he didn't trip
[12:36] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:06] <smartboyhw> xequence, damn I forgotten, for 12.04.3 we should have a -lts-raring kernel ready:(
[15:06] <smartboyhw> I did say that before:(
[15:06] <xequence> smartboyhw: not your job to remember
[15:06] <xequence> so its ok
[15:07] <smartboyhw> xequence, we can have it for 12.04.4 I think (sigh)
[15:07] <xequence> I haven't yet looked at how that works
[15:08] <smartboyhw> xequence, alright, since you are the kernel maintenace guy, check it out someday:)
[15:08] <xequence> smartboyhw: I just asked about it on the kernel channel
[15:08] <smartboyhw> xequence, sure:)
[15:08] <xequence> smartboyhw: We don't have planning for the LTS at all. Thats a bit of a problem
[15:09] <smartboyhw> xequence, +1
[16:26] <OvenWerks> micahg: re: your remark about polkit, there is already a policy in place for apt. Also there seems to be a default policy in place as I can run pkexec cat file.
[16:27] <OvenWerks> micahg: if I was to set up a policy, it would have to be for apt-get, but I am not sure that is not already covered by org.debian.apt.install-or-remove-packages for example
[16:29] <OvenWerks> micahg: in fact setting up a policy for apt-get may break policy already in place
[16:29] <micahg> OvenWerks: ok, so it prompts for the superuser password?
[16:30] <micahg> not root?
[16:30] <OvenWerks> yes
[16:30] <micahg> sorry, current admin user
[16:30] <micahg> ok, great
[16:30] <OvenWerks> if I am logged in as a non-admin user it asked for the passwored of the admin user
[16:31] <micahg> great
[16:31]  * OvenWerks tested this on my wife's machine
[16:31] <micahg> and as an admin user, one's own password?
[16:31] <OvenWerks> yes
[18:09] <scott-work> zequence: you might consider applying for this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/116317370665849559569/posts/gEUnW2jsB3B
[18:17] <xequence> scott-work: Hey man :)
[18:17] <xequence> Someone just wishing for you to appear the other day
[18:17] <xequence> Well, all of us of course
[18:17] <xequence> but, I think it was smartboyhw - he's probably asleep right now
[18:18] <xequence> scott-work: That's not a bad idea, but unfortunately I haven't yet contributed to kernel code at all, so without reading I'm not sure if that applies to me
[18:18] <xequence> I would like to do that in the future though
[18:18] <xequence> scott-work: I'm at debconf at the moment, btw
[18:19] <xequence> in Switzerland
[18:19] <xequence> Joined the Debian Multimedia Team in May I think it was
[18:20] <xequence> There will be a meeting about a Debian blend for Multimedia, and since I'm most likely the only attending, plus the experience from US, I'm going to see if i can take a leading role in that
[18:21] <xequence> try to see about harmonizing Debian/Ubuntu a bit on the multimedia side of things
[18:23] <xequence> scott-work: How's things going for you. You said you were going to do some studying
[18:24] <xequence> astraljava is doing some of that as well, as it seems
[18:32] <xequence> time to leave for home - I'm again not saying at the camp, and have the luck of having a relative living nearby, in this case my sis, so going there over night. bb online in a few
[18:49] <madeinkobaia> Hi all : )
[19:12] <OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: Hello :)
[19:12] <madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: Hi mate :)
[19:13] <madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: Was fighting with gnome 3 those last days, what a hell !
[19:13] <OvenWerks> icons  I would like to get names finalized even if the art is not
[19:14] <madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: What do you mean ?
[19:14] <OvenWerks> I'll also pass this by zequence
[19:15] <OvenWerks> right now they are using the standard names
[19:16] <OvenWerks> like applications-audio.png
[19:16] <madeinkobaia> I think I missed a part of the conversation...not sure to understand, I should take a look on dev-list mail...
[19:16] <OvenWerks> but what that means is that other icon themes override ours
[19:17] <OvenWerks> we were going to change them so they are unique
[19:17] <madeinkobaia> ok
[19:17] <OvenWerks> I think we are just going to take the applications and change that to ubuntustudio
[19:18] <OvenWerks> The main thing for you, I would guess, is that you know both names are talking about the same thing.
[19:19] <OvenWerks> I need to change all the *.desktop files to match. and so I would like to start on that soon as I can
[19:20] <OvenWerks> Also, it looks like the package they will end up in will be ubuntustudio-menu rather than ubuntustudio-icon-theme.
[19:22] <madeinkobaia> Ok I will check all that. Now I think I will be highly busy those next weeks too.
[19:23] <OvenWerks> Life comes first.
[19:23] <OvenWerks> I hope it's a good busy :)
[19:23] <madeinkobaia> A great one :D
[19:24] <OvenWerks> Great! good to hear.
[19:24] <OvenWerks> I'm off work till sometime in sept.
[19:25] <madeinkobaia> Otherwise do you know who did the actual ubuntu studio desktop theme ?
[19:26] <madeinkobaia> It was grounded on a gtk 2 theme I guess
[19:26] <OvenWerks> Theme? We generally have been using what xubuntu has.
[19:26] <OvenWerks> we add our own BG and menu
[19:27] <madeinkobaia> Ok, I will start work on our new theme for the 14.04 soon.
[19:27] <OvenWerks> I liked it last release, but am not liking the newer one
[19:29] <OvenWerks> I like the whole bar of the window with focus to change, just changing the colour of the text (grey to black) does not make it obvious enough which window I should be looking at :)
[19:29] <madeinkobaia> Ok
[19:30] <OvenWerks> Just my pet peave with most new themes... others may not agree
[19:30] <OvenWerks> cub: hello.
[19:30] <madeinkobaia> cub: Hi
[19:30] <madeinkobaia> Bbl
[19:31] <cub> Hello OvenWerks and madeinkobaia
[19:32] <OvenWerks> cub: in #xubuntu-devel "< texadactyl> Len, Mir could be safely released if LightDM was changed  slightly to decide whether or not to launch Mir based on a  lightdm.conf (new) parameter (switch).  By default, it  should probably be off.
[19:33] <OvenWerks> does that make sense to you?
[19:33] <cub> it would force the system to go to the fallback xorg?
[19:33] <cub> even if the HW would be able to run mir, no?
[19:34] <OvenWerks> I am thinking with a clear switch that having xmir on an ISO by default would be ok.
[19:34] <OvenWerks> Ya, apparently there is a config option that can be set on or not.
[19:35] <cub> I'm not sure I follow. You mean that the ISO would have the switch on to load xmir?
[19:35] <cub> or the other way around?
[19:36] <OvenWerks> texadactyl's comment seems to indicate off by default.
[19:37] <cub> yes
[19:37] <OvenWerks> That config file is unique to the flavour though, so it would be a flavour's choice.
[19:38] <OvenWerks> s/would/could
[19:38] <cub> exactly
[19:39] <OvenWerks> it would allow easy continued testing without having to keep a separate partition or drive.
[19:39] <cub> though if everyone could change to mir if they wanted to after boot that would be fine. Not to mess up too much for the users
[19:39] <cub> exactly
[19:39] <cub> win-win
[19:39] <OvenWerks> I think it still requires a reboot... but I could be wrong.
[19:40] <cub> hmm I don't know. Hopefully it would do with a log off/on but I'm just wishing
[19:41] <OvenWerks> lightdm is started by upstart... really it should be possible to just change run levels... shh, don't tell the upstart/systemd guys I said that word ;)
[19:42] <cub> tvoss_	texadactyl, so are you happy with commenting out type=unity in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-unity-system-compositor.conf?
[19:43] <cub> One reboot for each test until 14.04, I could live with that. =)
[19:43] <OvenWerks> With two run levels lightdm could be run with a different config file for each.
[19:44] <cub> woudl that require much more resources from the pc?
[19:47] <OvenWerks> run levels? no.
[19:47] <OvenWerks> just checked and lightdm does not seem to have a respawn tag
[19:48] <OvenWerks> otherwise one could just kill it and it would restart
[19:49] <OvenWerks> Stock ubuntu/debian has runlevel 2-5 all the same right now.
[19:50] <OvenWerks> lightdm for example is set "stop on runlevel [016]"
[19:50] <cub> ok
[19:50] <OvenWerks> (from the upstart config file)
[19:52] <cub> On another note, I have totally missed that 12.04.3 is released soon. Is there anything we need to be on top for that, or is everyone already on top of it (except me)?
[19:52] <OvenWerks> It seems we missed it anyway.
[19:53] <OvenWerks> maybe a new kernel. but that is not a big DL
[20:15] <cub> I'm struggling with my laptop to shrink the win-partition to make room for a new test partition to run saucy
[20:16] <cub> after 1073 steps, it will let me shrink it 26 MB. Yay.
[20:31] <cub> it's getting late over here, so g'nite folks!
[20:50] <OvenWerks> xequence: what are the chances of adding a ubuntustudio-audio.preinst to our meta package?
[21:08] <xequence> OvenWerks: What sort of thing did you have in mind?
[21:09] <OvenWerks> debconf-set-selections jackd/tweak_rt_limits boolean true
[21:09] <OvenWerks> Not quite right, but close.
[21:10] <xequence> you mean that will say yes to installing the audio.conf file by default?
[21:10] <OvenWerks> The question is, does it affect things with a generic kernel?
[21:10] <xequence> realtime privilege is not kernel specific at all
[21:11] <OvenWerks> If a user is installing our audio meta on another flavour it should just work...]
[21:11] <xequence> They still need to add themselves to audio group
[21:11] <OvenWerks> :) Thats another problem for another day :)
[21:11] <xequence> it would be better actually to add a patch explaining this while installing jackd
[21:12] <xequence> the patch would just add some text - answer yes, then add yourself to audio group
[21:12] <xequence> ubuntustudio-controls will be administrating realtime privilege
[21:12] <xequence> I was working on that part today
[21:13] <OvenWerks> Ok
[21:13] <xequence> I used to have a script with it that checked the system at boot as well
[21:13] <xequence> and notified if something was not right
[21:13] <OvenWerks> That was the two things I ran across while installing our stuff on top of stock fresh xubuntu
[21:13] <xequence> like realitme privilege - then tell the user to use -controls
[21:14] <xequence> the reason why it's like this is cause Debian has users in audio group
[21:14] <xequence> so, installing jackd is enough to get rt privilege
[21:14] <xequence> and we only sync, we don't change
[21:14] <xequence> in reality, we should have created a new group
[21:14] <xequence> but, what I'm hearing is that devs dont want that
[21:14] <xequence> they'd rather quit using groups all together
[21:15] <xequence> and another solution is rt-kit
[21:15] <OvenWerks> Our preseed file suggests using polkit
[21:15] <OvenWerks> "jack is not PolicyKit aware yet"
[21:16] <xequence> I don't know the details. All I know is we need to fix this before 14.04
[21:16] <OvenWerks> The thing is we don't want root access.
[21:16] <OvenWerks> polkit may allow group access though.
[21:16] <OvenWerks> we could add a policykit action in our settings though.
[21:17] <xequence> HOw would that work?
[21:17] <OvenWerks> Not sure.
[21:18] <OvenWerks> normally things that use polkit that are not polkit aware have to be run pkexec appname
[21:18] <OvenWerks> That would be dbus painful.
[21:18] <xequence> For now, -controls will be an indicator app with a menu. Two lauchers - system settings (individual app, called ubuntustudio-system-settings), and ubuntustudio-installer, and maybe "exit".
[21:19] <xequence> We should look through all the possibilies for that next cycle, choose one that works, and push for it
[21:19] <OvenWerks> That will work.
[21:20] <xequence> about realtime privilege, my last comment
[21:20] <xequence> I'll want for Debian and Ubuntu to use the same system too
[21:20] <OvenWerks> That would be best I agree
[21:21] <OvenWerks> even better if we can make jackd devs happy too.
[21:21] <xequence> mm :P
[21:21] <xequence> seems like there's one jack for every jack dev these days
[21:22] <OvenWerks> LOL
[21:22] <xequence> would be good to get them to agree too, yes
[21:24] <OvenWerks> I would think we only need to worry about jackd2 though
[21:24] <OvenWerks> I don't think jackd1 does dbus.
[21:24] <xequence> no, it doesn't
[21:25] <OvenWerks> we don't ship it anyway. (he said dissmissively)
[21:28] <xequence> jackd1 can have the old way. both don't need to use the same system for rt
[21:29] <OvenWerks> on another topic, our iso is not building again.
[21:30] <OvenWerks> the libav-extras agian.
[21:31] <OvenWerks> cups-filters : Conflicts: ghostscript-cups I can't figure, one is a dep of the other
[21:32] <xequence> HOw is that related to libav?
[21:32] <OvenWerks> Its the odd one out
[21:33] <OvenWerks> The rest are libav
[21:40] <xequence> seems like -extra packages confilct with non extra packages
[21:42] <xequence> OvenWerks: I think there are newer versions in -proposed
[21:43] <xequence> let me check
[21:46] <xequence> OvenWerks: Yep, newer libav is in -proposed
[21:47] <micahg> if no one beats me to it, I'll upload a new libav-extra tonright
[21:47] <micahg> *tonight
[21:53] <OvenWerks> micahg: thanks, Anything I need to do for installer?
[21:54] <micahg> no, I think I'm good now, just close the needs packaging bug in the changelog if it's not done already
[21:54] <OvenWerks> Ok, should I set it to saucy as well or do you do that?
[21:55] <OvenWerks> micahg: ^^
[21:55] <micahg> nah, let me do that after I test it one more time
[21:56] <micahg> that part is just something to keep in mind when you get upload rights :)
[21:56] <micahg> or making debdiffs
[21:57] <xequence> micahg: I'm about to totally rewrite code for a package - ubuntustudio-controls. Since it's a total rewrite, I'm thinking I just change it with one commit. Any thoughts?
[21:58] <micahg> xequence: well, if it's total, sure
[21:59] <micahg> if there are logical pieces to it, I would suggest doing those as individual commits
[22:00] <xequence> micahg: there will be two individual applications, each with their own desktop file
[22:01] <xequence> most of it will be python/GTK
[22:02] <micahg> xequence: I'd wipe out the old stuff and add each application with its contents separately if it's not too much work
[22:03] <OvenWerks> micahg: bugfix changelog entry commited and pushed
[22:04] <xequence> micahg: ok
[22:05] <OvenWerks> micahg: original bug marked fix commited. I guess the rellease will auto close the bug.
[22:05] <micahg> yeah
[22:12] <OvenWerks> xequence: icon names. Our desktop menu icons are all applications-category.png, can I rename the bunch in -menu (bad as they are) to ubuntustudio-*.*?
[22:12] <OvenWerks> That way I can work on fixing the desktop files.
[22:13] <OvenWerks> and directory files
[22:15] <OvenWerks> Then I can get -menu released in time for FF.
[22:16] <OvenWerks> Artwork freeze is later
[22:16] <OvenWerks> After that I have to redo settings to use all this stuff.
[22:37] <xequence> OvenWerks: Sure.
[22:41] <OvenWerks> xequence: I will work on that next


[00:00] <Exal> Im trying to start an application on the tty3
[00:01] <Exal> I have disabled load a teminal on /etc/event.d/tty3
[00:01] <Exal> so, im wondering where indicate to run the application
[00:02] <Exal> I have my line: astk:2345:respawn:/usr/sbin/asterisk >/dev/tty3 2>&1 </dev/tty3
[00:02] <Exal>
[00:02] <Exal> where should be this?
[00:13] <mbiebl> Exal: copy /etc/event.d/tty3 to /etc/event.d/asterisk (or choose a name as you like)
[00:13] <mbiebl> and change the exec line accordingly.
[00:16] <Exal> mbiebl: if I create a /etc/inittab with the line I pasted above doesn't work?
[00:19] <Exal> mbiebl: exec astk:2345:respawn:/usr/sbin/asterisk >/dev/tty3 2>&1 </dev/tty3
[00:19] <Exal> is ok?
[00:20] <mbiebl> no
[00:21] <mbiebl> exec line must be something like
[00:21] <mbiebl> exec /usr/sbin/asterisk >/dev/tty3 2>&1 </dev/tty3
[00:21] <Exal> ho, thanks :)
[00:22] <mbiebl> and don't use /etc/inittab anymore
[00:22] <Exal> mbiebl: ok :)
[00:28] <Exal> then, I can put any file in /etc/event.d ?
[00:35] <mbiebl> well, you can define as many jobs as you want, as long as the files have the correct format.
[00:36] <mbiebl> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/getting-started.html
[00:37] <mbiebl> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Stanzas
[15:37] <Keybuk> mbiebl: elmo's trying to persuade me to blog about Debian not giving patches back to Ubuntu
[15:39] <Jc2k> Keybuk: on debian vs ubuntu:
[15:39] <Jc2k> debian lenny has a bug in its intel 3945 support that ubuntu fixed months and months ago
[15:39] <Jc2k> their tracker knows of the ubuntu fix...
[15:40] <Jc2k> yet they do not fix.
[15:40] <Jc2k> im confibbled, but luckily im happy enough with the killswitch toggling workaround ;_;
[15:43] <mbiebl> Keybuk: this is a much too broad statement.
[15:43] <mbiebl> There surely are DDs and corresponding Ubuntu Developers where the collaboration is suboptimal.
[15:44] <mbiebl> On the other hand, take the X maintainers.
[15:44] <Keybuk> true, the issue is that we get flamed for every single time we fail to submit a patch back
[15:44] <Keybuk> or fail to honour the Debian maintainer in the control file
[15:44] <mbiebl> Well, flaming back won't help imho.
[15:44] <Keybuk> or change the build/patch system
[15:44] <Keybuk> etc.
[15:44] <Keybuk> yet Debian does it all the time -- even for certain packages like "upstart" :-)
[15:45] <mbiebl> Really?
[15:45] <Keybuk> yeah, I agree flaming back won't help at all
[15:45] <Keybuk> also I really really don't care about Debian -- and argue that Ubuntu shouldn't derive from it anymore :p
[15:45] <mbiebl> I tried to inform you whenever I made changes which would make sense for you in Ubuntu.
[15:45] <Keybuk> mbiebl: there's a few patches I found in your postinst, etc. that make sense for Ubuntu
[15:45] <Keybuk> and you changed the patch system
[15:45] <Keybuk> (nb: I really don't mind -- I just find it ironic)
[15:46] <mbiebl> The patch system is currently unused, so I saw no point for you to add it.
[15:48] <mbiebl> Ah, now I see what you are referring to: The usage of dpkg-query in postinst.
[15:49] <mbiebl> ähm, I mean preinst.
[15:51] <mbiebl> Keybuk: So I admit, my fault.
[15:51] <ion_> keybuk: Would you perhaps consider licensing libnih as LGPL? :-)
[15:52] <ion_> I'm getting fed up with glib's inconsistencies, but i'm going to license this project as LGPL.
[15:53] <Keybuk> ion_: err.
[15:53] <Keybuk> the problem with that is that libnih assumes the program it's linked to is GPL 2 or later
[15:53] <Keybuk> because that's what it writes in the output for --version
[15:55] <mbiebl> Keybuk: about the patch system: you currently don't use one in you ubuntu package, but I needed one for some smaller changes.
[15:55] <mbiebl> Do you actually want that to submitted back?
[15:55] <Keybuk> nah
[15:55] <Keybuk> I do actually use one from time-to-time in the Ubuntu package
[15:55] <Keybuk> e.g. for -updates
[15:55] <ion_> I'd have to implement a lot of stuff i get from glib for free, though. UTF-8 handling for instance. Perhaps i'll just live with it. :-)
[15:56] <mbiebl> Which one do you normally use then?
[15:56] <Keybuk> ion_: err, you get that from glibc for free
[15:56] <Keybuk> mbiebl: home grown simple patchsys-a-like
[15:56] <ion_> I mean glib's UTF-8 helper functions.
[15:56] <ion_> And PCRE helper functions etc.
[15:56] <Keybuk> ion_: what do you need those for?
[15:56] <Keybuk> I tend to find that if you're trying to "deal" with UTF-8, you're doing it wrong ;)
[15:57] <ion_> Well, i need to have a loop that iterates each UTF-8 character from a string and does stuff with it.
[15:57] <mbiebl> About the preinst stuff: shall I send you a patch for that?
[15:58] <ion_> The code being portable to Windows™ is a plus, since some users might use it.
[15:59] <mbiebl> Keybuk: I guess one problem might be, that DDs don't know, if you pull the debian packages verbatim from the unstable archive (as happens for most motu packages)
[15:59] <mbiebl> or if they diverged and maintained separately.
[16:00] <Keybuk> mbiebl: sure
[16:00] <mbiebl> For the first case, any changes to the package will be applied to the corresponding ubuntu package automatically.
[16:00] <Keybuk> ion_: on licensing
[16:00] <Keybuk> I'm finding the current licence problems distateful
[16:00] <Keybuk> have been considering what the best licence for libnih/upstart actually i
[16:00] <Keybuk> is
[16:01] <ion_> Ok
[16:02] <Keybuk> and the whole GPL 2 vs GPL 2+ vs GPL 3 vs GPL 3+ mess is just a train wreck
[16:02] <ion_> Yeah :-P
[16:02] <Keybuk> it worries me that people think they can take GPL 2+ code and relicense it to GPL 3
[16:05] <Jc2k> like BSD -> GPL spectacle ?
[16:06] <Keybuk> indeed
[16:11] <mbiebl> Keybuk: so, for the future, shall I send you a PM with a patch, submit a bug against lp or just ping you on irc?
[16:12] <mbiebl> You know, I'm actually interested in improving the collaboration ;-)
[16:12] <mbiebl> And I'd say, most of the time it works really well for the packages I maintain.
[16:15] <Keybuk> submit patch in LP :)
[16:15] <mbiebl> ok


[09:30] <JaneW> highvoltage: ping
[09:30] <JaneW> morning all
[09:30] <magnon> morning Jane
[09:30] <jsgotangco> hello ms. JaneW
[09:30] <magnon> Argh.
[09:31] <magnon> I think we're losing a client
[09:31] <magnon> but they're not answering the phone, so who knows :p
[09:31] <jsgotangco> i couldn't think of anything to post in planet
[09:32] <magnon> same school who hung up the ethernet cable under a 440V power line *sigh*
[09:32] <JaneW> hi Mr Gotangco
[09:32] <JaneW> magnon: maybe they got fried
[09:33] <magnon> dunno, but they blame us when their network is down :D
[09:33] <magnon> ah, they are more trouble than it's worth anyway
[09:33] <magnon> their loss
[09:33] <magnon> more enthusiastic people are interested
[09:33] <magnon> and I got us some consultancy work yesterday anyway
[09:33] <magnon> <3 people who are willing to pay shitloads for having me find a solution to whatever
[09:34] <jsgotangco> wow
[09:35] <magnon> "This Linux thing... is it good?"
[09:36] <magnon> my father works in a rather hardcore windows environment and sometimes direct some customers to me... usual question :)
[09:38] <jsgotangco> you can say that it's orgasmic
[09:38] <jsgotangco> ooopsss this is an edu chan
[09:38] <magnon> I usually just say a lot of technical blabber, then say that it is awesome, and they trust my knowledge and agree :P
[09:39] <magnon> JaneW: will there be anything edubuntu-specific at BelowZero?
[09:44] <highvoltage> JaneW: pong
[09:47] <magnon> jbailey's email is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as well?
[09:47] <JaneW> magnon: I think so, but it hasn;t been arranged yet - there will certainly be some bofs
[09:48] <JaneW> magnon: yes that should rach jef
[09:48] <JaneW> reach jeff
[09:49] <magnon> I might consider going to belowzero
[09:50] <magnon> I mean, I am considering, I might even go ;)
[09:51] <jsgotangco> nice
[09:51] <jsgotangco> JaneW, there should be an edubuntu track, the LTSP guys are there
[09:51] <jsgotangco> like what they did in sydney
[09:51] <magnon> anyone know how customs between Canada and US are now, btw?
[09:51] <magnon> in 2000 I could pass without a passport :P
[09:52] <JaneW> ogra: is there enough edubuntu specifics to justify and entire track - kubuntu doesn't get a track
[09:52] <jsgotangco> lucky for you anywhere i go, i usually need a visa
[09:52] <magnon> jsgotangco: where are you from?
[09:52] <jsgotangco> Manila
[09:53] <magnon> Phillipines?
[09:53] <jsgotangco> aye
[09:53] <magnon> Ah
[09:53] <magnon> well, we went to canada, they didnt bother
[09:53] <magnon> then we had to go back, I noticed I had forgotten my passport in NY
[09:53] <magnon> just said "New York City, sir" when the officer asked where I was from, and that worked nicely
[09:57] <JaneW> except UK and parts of SE Asia
[09:57] <magnon> :\
[09:58] <jsgotangco> SE Asia that's strange
[09:58] <jsgotangco> we usually don't require a visa for short trips
[10:02] <magnon> wow
[10:02] <magnon> the flight fares aren't that bad
[10:02] <magnon> 5.5k NOK
[10:02] <magnon> 700 eur
[10:03] <magnon> even cheaper to NY
[10:09] <jsgotangco> JaneW, who is our main contact in Montreal? jbailey?
[10:22] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes I guess, what for?
[10:23] <jsgotangco> just asking
[10:23] <jsgotangco> (its not like ubuntu has an office everywhere to hold conferences)
[10:23] <JaneW> jsgotangco: it was so cool when we went to Malaysia and Thaialand and all the Brits and Americans had to que up for visa checks and for oce us South Africans could just walk through ;)
[10:23] <magnon> anyone who talks with jeff are free to poke him to send me the sla :P
[10:24] <JaneW> jsgotangco: indeed - jbailey lives a few train stops away from the hotel and I think BradB is nearby too
[10:24] <jsgotangco> yes jeff told me its just a 20 minute walk
[10:25] <magnon> I guess you guys are all attending?
[10:27] <JaneW> jsgotangco: do you know when they are making the sponsorship decisions
[10:27] <JaneW> ?
[10:27] <magnon> well, hope I'll see you there :)
[10:27] <jsgotangco> JaneW, no i only know sponsorship application closes this weekend
[10:30] <jsgotangco> JaneW, in case i get approved, i'll have to fix my papers early heh
[10:39] <JaneW> yes good idea
[10:40] <jsgotangco> aww
[10:40] <magnon> my mom has been frequently missing my birthdays all the time, has been no problem :P
[10:41] <JaneW> magnon: even at 4 years old?
[10:41] <magnon> nah
[10:41] <JaneW> magnon: I think I will have to bribe him with promises of gifts from far away lands...
[10:41] <jsgotangco> pre-schoolers are wonderful
[10:41] <magnon> but she's been alone from when I was 7, so she had to work a lot, thus being away
[10:42] <JaneW> and will have to do better than a hastily grabbed (and horibly over priced) trinket from the airport - as happened in Sydney
[10:42] <magnon> buy him a stuffed Breezy
[10:42] <JaneW> jsgotangco: when edubuntu launches I have 2 Pre K testers right here
[10:42] <JaneW> magnon: he;d love that actually
[10:43] <magnon> I believe he will :)
[10:43] <JaneW> magnon: in fact he got an HP linux penguin the other day
[10:43] <jsgotangco> i gotta go
[10:43] <JaneW> big and fluffy
[10:43] <magnon> arf, if I don't go to montreal, I might afford a Muse Receptor before Christmas :P
[10:43] <jsgotangco> mooncake festival is just a week from now i gotta buy my girl a dress
[10:43] <JaneW> I got the penguin shaped wine gums ;)
[10:43] <JaneW> jsgotangco: :) enjoy
[10:43] <JaneW> moon cake sounds nice
[10:44] <jsgotangco> JaneW, i was forced by my kid to create a penguin out of clay
[10:44] <magnon> kids! all you guys have kids. :)
[10:44] <magnon> that won't be in many many years
[10:44] <JaneW> just us oldies ;)
[10:45] <jsgotangco> JaneW, moon cake actually tastes good
[10:45] <JaneW> badgers badgers badgers badgers
[10:45] <jsgotangco> schnaakes
[10:45] <magnon> my father dated a girl with a six year old when they were both 20
[10:45] <magnon> scary.
[10:45] <JaneW> wow!
[10:45] <magnon> mushroom mushroom
[10:45] <jsgotangco> she got pregnant at 14?
[10:45] <JaneW> that's the one
[10:45] <magnon> apparently. :P
[10:45] <JaneW> jsgotangco: no she had the kid at 14
[10:46] <JaneW> was prolly pregnant at 13!!!
[10:46] <magnon> well
[10:46] <jsgotangco> what a waste of childhood innocence
[10:46] <magnon> it's possible to both get pregnant and have the kid at 14
[10:46] <JaneW> magnon: I know
[10:46] <magnon> and I think that was the case
[10:46] <JaneW> ok
[10:46] <JaneW> well then I exagerated
[10:46] <magnon> but it's still a waste
[10:46] <jsgotangco> 13 is too hardcore
[10:46] <JaneW> and illegal
[10:47] <JaneW> almost everywhere in the world
[10:47] <JaneW> was she cool?
[10:47] <magnon> it's not illegal unless one of the people involved are over 16
[10:47] <magnon> dunno, I never met her
[10:47] <magnon> I didn't know my father when he was 20
[10:47] <JaneW> magnon: oh right!
[10:48] <magnon> that's 25 years ago, and I'm not that old :P
[10:48] <JaneW> magnon: actually here I think it is illegal even if both are underage - the parents could sue each other (I'd have to confirm, but I *think*)
[10:49] <JaneW> magnon: speak for yourself :P
[10:49] <magnon> I'd guess south africa has more problems with that than we have
[10:50] <jsgotangco> tell that to the king of swaziland!
[10:50] <magnon> if a 16 year old and a 15 year old has sex, it'll be brought up and discussed, but not punished in any way
[10:50] <magnon> although the limit is 16
[10:50] <magnon> if both are below 16, you can't do anything as you can't convict anyone below 16 anyway
[10:52] <jsgotangco> ok im out
[10:52] <jsgotangco> brb
[10:52] <magnon> JaneW: anyway, your son won't remember his 4th birthday when he grows up :P
[10:53] <JaneW> magnon: I remeber mine
[10:53] <JaneW> magnon: but then I am a freak , I remeber stuff from when I was still 2...
[10:53] <JaneW> I must be an elephant
[10:53] <magnon> I just remember stuff from when I was in the kindergarden
[10:53] <magnon> and when mom and dad got separated
[10:54] <JaneW> :/
[10:54] <JaneW> ok these flights officially SUCK
[10:54] <JaneW> one leaves Montreal at 6pm on FRIDAY
[10:54] <JaneW> and gets me home at 12pm on SUNDAY
[10:54] <magnon> I was 5 or 6, so I didn't really understand more than that me and my mother suddenly moved and I met dad alone instead of with mom :P
[10:54] <magnon> ouch!
[10:54] <JaneW> (shame)
[10:55] <JaneW> must have been hard
[10:55] <magnon> would have been harder if they didn't separate
[10:55] <magnon> parents who argue all the time aren't really the best ones to have around
[10:55] <JaneW> and another Birthday
[10:55] <magnon> am I missing Halloween if I go to Montreal?
[10:55] <magnon> wee!
[10:56] <magnon> I hate halloween
[10:56] <JaneW> well with the kids at any rate
[10:56] <JaneW> it;s not big here
[10:56] <magnon> then again, I still don't have kids
[10:56] <JaneW> but we have started trick or treating with the kids
[10:56] <ogra> JaneW, a "trac" ?
[10:56] <ogra> track even
[10:56] <ogra> morning
[10:56] <JaneW> manily for the fun of dressing up
[10:56] <JaneW> ogra: hi yes
[10:56] <magnon> morning Mr. Gra*
[10:57] <ogra> :)
[10:57] <ogra> JaneW, what do you mean by track ?
[10:57] <magnon> I mean Grawert ;)
[11:00] <magnon> wee, my Edubuntu Test Lab is finished
[11:00] <ogra> yay
[11:00] <magnon> it sounds much cooler than it is
[11:00] <ogra> oh ?
[11:01] <JaneW> one is 41 hours!!!!
[11:01] <JaneW> with a 14 hour stop in Frankfurt
[11:01] <magnon> it just covers about 2 square meters of my floor
[11:02] <magnon> JaneW: what company?
[11:02] <JaneW> airline you mean?
[11:02] <magnon> yes
[11:03] <JaneW> Lufthansa
[11:03] <Burgundavia> JaneW, london or amsterdam is probably the fastest optoin
[11:03] <magnon> tried BA?
[11:03] <JaneW> There's 3 options
[11:03] <JaneW> BA - London
[11:03] <JaneW> KLM - Amsterdam
[11:03] <JaneW> Lufthansa - Frankfurt
[11:03] <Burgundavia> JaneW, Air Canada flies in London and then SAA to Sa
[11:04] <JaneW> hmm... SAA gives me air miles..
[11:04] <Burgundavia> JaneW, I have heard bad things about the length of the frankfurt flights
[11:04] <JaneW> better choice
[11:04] <Burgundavia> JaneW, it might also be cheaper for the london office to book the trip
[11:06] <ogra> JaneW, when is the LH flight ?
[11:06] <magnon> hmm
[11:07] <magnon> I can scrap the launchpad part of the conference, cant I? :P
[11:07] <ogra> depends... if you are interested in launchpad, you shuldnt
[11:08] <magnon> I'm interested in Edubuntu ;)
[11:08] <Burgundavia> JaneW, the cheapest price I can find is 7,232.25 ZAR
[11:08] <magnon> well, I'm interested, but I don't have time to be involved in more stuff
[11:09] <ogra> magnon, if you want to come, make sure you stay the days where the LTSP guys are there too :)
[11:10] <magnon> yeah, I'm trying to find out when that is :)
[11:11] <magnon> if you know, do tell ;)
[11:15] <JaneW> magnon just a sec
[11:15] <magnon> I have all the time in the world
[11:15] <magnon> :P
[11:16] <JaneW> the 20 odd LTSp ppl arrive on Thurs 3 Nov
[11:16] <JaneW> and leave on Mon 7th
[11:16] <JaneW> does that help?
[11:17] <magnon> yes, thanks :)
[11:17] <magnon> I guess I'll stay from saturday to sunday
[11:17] <magnon> 8 days
[11:17] <magnon> then leave for NY on Sunday
[11:17] <ogra> JaneW, and the 20 even LTSp ppl ??
[11:17] <ogra> :)
[11:17] <magnon> ogra: ever met an LTSP guy who isn't odd?
[11:18] <JaneW> distro team works from Mon 31 Oct to Sat 5 Nov
[11:18] <ogra> .... hmm, nope
[11:18] <JaneW> lol
[11:18] <ogra> :)
[11:18] <magnon> im not interested in launchpad _development_ for the time being at least
[11:18] <magnon> and I dont think I have two weeks to spend
[11:22] <magnon> who decides the sponsorships btw?
[11:23] <magnon> (not that I'm applying ;)
[11:24] <ogra> i think in the end the guy who spends the money ;)
[11:24] <magnon> ah ;)
[11:25] <magnon> hope Trent gets it
[11:25] <magnon> need people around my age to come ;p
[11:25] <ogra> what is your age ?
[11:25] <magnon> 19
[11:25] <magnon> hahaha
[11:25] <ogra> hmm...
[11:26] <magnon> BA wants me to fly oslo-london-montreal-london-new york-london-oslo
[11:26] <ogra> we'll have some people around 20 there, i'm pretty sure :)
[11:27] <magnon> I think I could get a train from Montreal to NY instead
[11:27] <magnon> or local flight
[11:30] <JaneW> magnon: there'll be several ppl tat age
[11:31] <JaneW> don't worry
[11:31] <magnon> well, I know trent already, he's a cool chap, so I want him there anyway ;)
[11:31] <magnon> arf
[11:31] <ogra> arf ?
[11:32] <magnon> why is it not possible to say "I want to leave from Oslo to Montreal, then go back to Oslo, but I will make my own way to NY"
[11:35] <JaneW> Magnon you can
[11:35] <JaneW> Magnon we did that with Cape Town - Phuket
[11:36] <ogra> JaneW, you cant answer PM ?
[11:36] <magnon> JaneW: not on BA
[11:37] <magnon> maybe LH
[11:38] <JaneW> ogra: did you get my PMs now?
[11:38] <ogra> nope
[11:38] <JaneW> magnon: no seriously don;t tell them about your other flight
[11:39] <JaneW> we did a Phuket - Bangkok hop, and the big flight never knew about it...
[11:39] <magnon> if I don't tell them, they will give me a return ticket from Montreal
[11:40] <magnon> somewhat wrong if I'm in NY :P
[11:43] <JaneW> magnon: oic, I thought your return flight was montreal too... can;t you keep it that way, might be cheaper and easier
[11:43] <magnon> I'll have to be going to NY somewhere in between, but you're right
[11:44] <magnon> two way ticket Oslo->Montreal and then a two way montreal->NY is probably cheaper than anything else
[11:44] <magnon> even cheaper might be Oslo->NY and improvise to Montreal ;)
[11:44] <magnon> heh, two way NY is cheaper than one way
[11:47] <magnon> nice prices anyway :)
[11:54] <JaneW> welcome back
[11:54] <magnon> this is just getting better
[11:54] <magnon> same
[11:54] <JaneW> I was alone here!
[11:54] <magnon> I think it was you who left
[11:54] <magnon> ;)
[11:54] <magnon> this is great
[11:54] <magnon> 600 eur for the flight over
[11:54] <magnon> 350$ for NY-montreal
[11:55] <JaneW> magnon I beg to differ...
[11:55] <JaneW> guim has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * magnon has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * highvoltage has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * ogra has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * Orby has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * cyphase has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * sivang has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * yvesC has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * mwest has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * ubuntulog has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> * danjules has quit (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:55] <JaneW> JaneW argh!
[11:55] <JaneW> * yvesC<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:55] <magnon> :P
[11:55] <JaneW> * highvoltage<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:55] <JaneW> * mwest<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <JaneW> * ogra<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <JaneW> * guim<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <magnon> mine says you left though.
[11:56] <JaneW> * magnon (n=magnon@photogeeks/magnon) has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <JaneW> * ubuntulog<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <JaneW> * Orby<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <JaneW> * cyphase<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <magnon> wee, photogeeks vhost
[11:56] <JaneW> * danjules<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <JaneW> * sivang<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #edubuntu
[11:56] <magnon> didnt know I had one
[11:56] <JaneW> :PP
[11:56] <JaneW> relativity...
 nice prices anyway :)
[11:56] <ogra> <-- P3L|C4N0 hat sich getrennt (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:56] <ogra> <-- JaneW hat sich getrennt (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[11:56] <ogra> --> P3L|C4N0<EMAIL_ADDRESS>hat #edubuntu betreten
[11:56] <ogra> --> JaneW<EMAIL_ADDRESS>hat #edubuntu betreten
 welcome back
[11:56] <magnon> yup
[11:56] <ogra> relativity ;)
[11:56] <JaneW> sigh
[11:56] <magnon> hm
[11:57] <magnon> what is a "preferred rate"
[11:57] <magnon> I choose the price?  No rooms!
[11:59] <ogra> JaneW, you fly on the 26th ?
[11:59] <JaneW> magnon: we all share
[11:59] <JaneW> ogra: no I have to arrive on the 26th
[11:59] <magnon> JaneW: oh, so I don't have to worry about rooms if I sign up as an attendee?
[11:59] <ogra> yup... i mean from FRA ?
[11:59] <JaneW> so it looks like I leav eon 24th, but am looking for a flight on the 25th
[12:00] <magnon> I mean, Canonical gets me a bed and I pay less than usual
[12:00] <JaneW> magnon: dunno, msg cvd, she arranges all that
[12:00] <JaneW> magnon: dunnp, but possibly... msg cvd
[12:00] <magnon> done already
[12:00] <JaneW> ;)
[12:01] <JaneW> ogra: I am tryingto avoid FRA
[12:01] <ogra> JaneW, ah...
[12:01] <JaneW> ogra: a 14h stop over and visa... silly
[12:01] <magnon> if you guys miss a public lynching event for people without Linux laptops, I'm here for ya
[12:01] <ogra> i'm flying 6 OCT - FRA - YUL - 1400 - 1605, thats why i asked
[12:01] <JaneW> s/6/26 ?
[12:02] <ogra> err, yes
[12:02] <ogra> copy n paste ...
[12:02] <JaneW> LH 9640 26OCT Frankfurt Montreal 1000 1205 OPERATED BY AIR CANADA <- one of my options
[12:02] <ogra> likely pitti will be with me...
[12:02] <JaneW> it's a 2 hour flight!?
[12:02] <ogra> 16 ;)
[12:02] <JaneW> (with the TZ difference)
[12:03] <ogra> err 14
[12:03] <JaneW> ogra: that could be fun... unless you are horrible when not smoking *duck*
[12:03] <ogra> heh, i can live with it ....
[12:04] <JaneW> highvoltage: was fun... (psychoboy) ;)
[12:04] <ogra> i cared or handicapped people at home in a former life... here i was locked into ppls flats and couldnt smoke for 10h ;)
[12:04] <ogra> highvoltage smokes ?
[12:05] <magnon> Wow
[12:05] <magnon> this machine has Mandrake installed
[12:05] <magnon> kernel 2.4.4
[12:05] <magnon> ogra, support
[12:06] <magnon> :D
[12:06] <magnon> do I do a server install and install edubuntu stuff later or will the installer ask me?
[12:06] <magnon> (this is the edubuntu cd)
[12:06] <ogra> just run the CD ... for a ltsp install ... no options needed
[12:06] <magnon> mkay
[12:07] <magnon> no think client install yet?
[12:07] <magnon> thick
[12:07] <ogra> nope...
[12:07] <ogra> but a standalone workstation... you can make it a think client ;)
[12:07] <ogra> (if you use the "workstation" option at the Cd prompt)
[12:07] <ogra> not documented yet
[12:08] <ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
[12:08] <ogra> for instructions ;)
[12:08] <JaneW> ogra: no he doesn;t smoke, he just doesn;t like being confined - but he handled it very well ;)
[12:08] <JaneW> ogra: LOCKED into ppls flats?!
[12:09] <ogra> yup
[12:09] <JaneW> hectic
[12:09] <JaneW> ogra: and I am impressed at your range of skill btw...
[12:09] <ogra> heh, thanks...
[12:10] <ogra> thats because i didnt learn a real job... i always had time to learn something else :)
[12:10] <ogra> and now i'm here as a IRC addicted....
[12:11] <JaneW> heh
[12:11] <ogra> hello, my name is Oliver Grawert and i'm avid ofr chatting
[12:11] <JaneW> have you all seen http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/ ?
[12:11] <JaneW> hello Oliver!
[12:11] <ogra> yup :)
[12:11] <ogra> hehe
[12:12] <highvoltage> ogra: no, i haven't smoked since i left school
[12:12] <JaneW> hello highvoltage :)
[12:12] <magnon> installing edubuntu <3
[12:12] <ogra> highvoltage, i was just wondering :)
[12:12] <JaneW> highvoltage: good for you
[12:13] <ogra> magnon, yay
[12:13] <JaneW> highvoltage: you just smuggle cigarettes ;)
[12:13] <ogra> magnon, do you have more than one client around ? i had a report of someone wher the serer couldnt handle the amount of clients...
[12:13] <magnon> just one client and my laptop
[12:14] <ogra> magnon, would be cool to have someone who coul dreproduce or test that
[12:14] <magnon> but, I can get it tested on one of the schools
[12:14] <magnon> one of them has like 75 clients
[12:14] <ogra> that'd be great... even we dont go for more then 30 clients per server currently...
[12:15] <magnon> hm
[12:15] <magnon> why? :D
[12:15] <magnon> works fine on one server
[12:15] <magnon> most are classroom clients anyway so all wont be used at the same time
[12:15] <magnon> and the server is badass
[12:15] <ogra> depends on the size of the server
[12:16] <magnon> 2x2.something ghz intel xeons
[12:16] <magnon> 8GB ram
[12:16] <magnon> private school :p
[12:16] <ogra> magnon, ask highvoltage, i think in his tests with dual xeon 4Gig he ended at 30 clients...
[12:16] <magnon> highvoltage: asking!
[12:17] <magnon> oh and gb network of course.
[12:22] <JaneW> ** REMINDER** Edubuntu update meeting in +-100 minutes (12:00 UTC) in #ubuntu-meeting
[12:32] <magnon> I need someone to show me a good place to eat on saturday 29th after 4pm :p
[12:33] <ogra> magnon, ping jbailey, he knows the places ;)
[12:33] <magnon> jeff is a slacker ;)
[12:33] <ogra> heh
[12:34] <ogra> he wrote essential bits of the ltsp you just install ;)
[12:34] <JaneW> lol
[12:34] <magnon> maybe
[12:34] <magnon> but he has taken a month to email me an SLA now :P
[12:35] <ogra> he has to confirm and clerify it first i guess...
[12:35] <ogra> it goes through many hands....
[12:38] <magnon> well, since we'll be doing support business with you guys, I need a scapegoat anyway :)
[12:38] <ogra> heh
[12:38] <ogra> if you pay for it ;)
[12:38] <ogra> ... we'll be all your scapegoats :)
[12:41] <magnon> I don't have that kind of cash, although it is tempting
[12:41] <ogra> heh
[12:41] <ogra> i was joking....
[12:41] <ogra> indeed we are your scapegoats for free....
[12:41] <ogra> ;)
[12:43] <magnon> arf! corrupted files on the CD
[12:43] <ogra> seems that you burned to fast then....
[12:44] <magnon> install interrupted, added online repo instead
[12:44] <ogra> at which speed ?
[12:44] <magnon> think I just burned on a cd that has been lying around without cover for too long
[12:44] <magnon> no idea
[12:44] <ogra> hmm...
[12:44] <magnon> powerbook, you know
[12:44] <magnon> they just do stuff
[12:44] <ogra> you shouldnt burn bootables faster than 8x
[12:44] <magnon> nvm, I have the web repo anyway now.
[12:44] <ogra> oki
[12:45] <ogra> but note that it wont work like the CD install
[12:45] <magnon> it'll work... somehow
[12:45] <magnon> :P
[12:45] <ogra> yup
[12:45] <magnon> ouch
[12:45] <magnon> the hotel was a bit expensive
[12:45] <magnon> even with canonical rates
[12:45] <ogra> but not as lined out on the instructions page
[12:46] <magnon> 150 cad/night
[12:46] <magnon> :\
[12:46] <magnon> I should find someone to share with
[12:51] <magnon> Claire already did
[12:51] <magnon> three cheers for claire!
[12:58] <JaneW> she's a legend
[12:59] <ogra> heh, yeah
[12:59] <JaneW> ** REMINDER** Edubuntu update meeting in +-60 minutes (12:00 UTC) in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:01] <JaneW> chmj: did Paulo finish his Bluetooth bounty in the end?
[01:02] <ogra> JaneW, ECHAN ?
[01:02] <JaneW> oops wrong #
[01:02] <ogra> heh
[01:21] <magnon> ooooh.
[01:21] <magnon> I didn't notice this before
[01:22] <magnon> but a trip to montreal can whitewash cash :P
[01:30] <jamey3> Is anyone here using the latest CD of Edubuntu? If so, could you tell me how well the install went.
[01:31] <magnon> I did, but I had corrupted files and had to fallback on netinstall
[01:31] <ogra> jamey3, it should work ok if you follow the instructions (and burn a god iso ;) )
[01:31] <jamey3> ok thanks ogra and magnon
[01:31] <magnon> oo
[01:31] <magnon> sexy bootsplash
[01:31] <jamey3> really?
[01:31] <magnon> feels like starting an 80s game
[01:31] <jamey3> lol
[01:31] <ogra> heh
[01:32] <magnon> and now it went away, proceeded to spew out all the old dirt ;)
[01:32] <ogra> i wonder if i can make it work for the thin clients too.... but thats low prio :)
[01:32] <jamey3> Once it's installed, what sort of configuring do you have to do? I mean, does the LTSP functionality work straight outta-the-box?
[01:32] <ogra> yup
[01:33] <jamey3> What sort of hardware will I need for a server?
[01:33] <ogra> http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting has the instructions for a sandalone LTSP server install
[01:33] <jamey3> I mean how many MHz (I know, crude) and MB of RAM for each client?
[01:33] <jamey3> ah, thanks
[01:33] <ogra> depends on the amount of clients
[01:34] <jamey3> well say I had five clients
[01:34] <ogra> highvoltage, runs a dual xeaon with 4 gig or ~20-30 clients
[01:34] <jamey3> woah
[01:34] <ogra> for even
[01:34] <jamey3> so that's about 100 MB of RAM each
[01:34] <ogra> i do my testing with a single client on a pIII 900 with 256 MB ... runs very smooth, i gues it could bear 3 clients
[01:35] <jamey3> cool
[01:35] <jamey3> does Edubuntu take full advantage of dual processor systems?
[01:35] <magnon> 100MB ram per client is a good budget
[01:35] <magnon> jamey3: just as much as Linux kernel does...
[01:35] <jamey3> lol fill me in, that's good then, right? ;-)
[01:35] <ogra> jamey3, you need to install a smp kernel on the server for it ... but yes, it does
[01:35] <jamey3> brill
[01:35] <ogra> (we only ship one kernel on the CD due to space issues)
[01:35] <jamey3> can I do that easily with apt after install?
[01:36] <ogra> yup
[01:36] <jamey3> wow, i'm already loving it
[01:36] <ogra> :)
[01:36] <jsgotangco> hey
[01:36] <jamey3> do you have experience setting up edubuntu in schools?
[01:36] <ogra> not yet, its the first release :)
[01:37] <jamey3> ah of course :)
[01:37] <jsgotangco> there is no edubuntu yet
[01:37] <ogra> we are eagerly searching for more testers :)
[01:37] <jamey3> it's just ubuntu with additions?
[01:37] <ogra> jsgotangco, what ?
[01:37] <jamey3> yeah that's what I thought ...
[01:37] <jamey3> there's no official release, but there is a beta version
[01:37] <jsgotangco> ogra, i meant its not yet released
[01:37] <ogra> jsgotangco, tomorrow is preview release... indeed there is a edubuntu
[01:37] <magnon> jamey3: I've been doing ubuntu deployments in schools though, edubuntu is a cute addon for an already good thing ;)
[01:38] <jamey3> magnon, oh right! So you install ubuntu, then LTSP and set it all up? Or are you talking workstation deployment?
[01:38] <magnon> jamey3: that is what I have done so far, yeah
[01:38] <ogra> jsgotangco, see the install instructions... only two manual steps needed... these two will go today or tomorrow
[01:38] <magnon> mostly LTSP
[01:38] <jsgotangco> ogra, oh my and i am just burning the cd now :(
[01:38] <ogra> jsgotangco, todays ?
[01:39] <jsgotangco> yes
[01:39] <ogra> great :)
[01:39] <jsgotangco> 14851 i guess
[01:39] <jamey3> cool, so you could also use Edubuntu well in a net cafe sort of environment?
[01:40] <ogra> jamey3, sure
[01:40] <jamey3> how stable is it?
[01:40] <jamey3> sorry for all the questions, btw
[01:41] <ogra> jamey3, thats what we are here for ;)
[01:41] <jamey3> :)
[01:41] <magnon> ogra: arf, what do you recon I should install now, after the net install?
[01:41] <ogra> its stable except of one bug noted in the install instructions
[01:41] <jamey3> yeah I was just gonna ask... when will that be fixed? (not that it's that bad really)
[01:41] <ogra> magnon, make sure edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop are installed
[01:42] <jsgotangco> ogra, are you familiar with scrollkeeper?
[01:42] <magnon> they arent ^^
[01:42] <ogra> magnon, and since you got no working CD you have to run ltsp-build-client without any options (that will build the client environment from the net)
[01:42] <jamey3> is there any easy way to generate about 800 user accounts and their relevant home directories et al using edubuntu?
[01:43] <ogra> jamey3, not yet... something like that is planned for the next release...
[01:43] <magnon> jamey3: do you have a user list?
[01:43] <magnon> we just made a list of users in plaintext, Firstname Lastname
[01:43] <ogra> currently you'll need a script or something
[01:43] <jamey3> we can get an SQL table of existing users on the Windows domain
[01:44] <magnon> then made a script which made usernames and generated a password
[01:44] <jamey3> is it any more involving than use 'adduser'?
[01:44] <magnon> and put everything in a file
[01:44] <magnon> hmm, you could be bad and use the windows domain for logins? :P
[01:44] <jamey3> lol :P
[01:45] <jamey3> I've no experience with it, that's someone else's sector
[01:45] <magnon> it works, so why not
[01:45] <magnon> much less hassle
[01:45] <magnon> I think, never tried it ;D
[01:45] <jamey3> lol
[01:45] <jamey3> I have no idea how we'd "interface" the two
[01:45] <magnon> shouldn't be too hard
[01:45] <jamey3> I mean I know it's used for authentication and user home dirs but how do you actually get it working...
[01:45] <magnon> wouldn't that be easier, so that people can use their existing password?
[01:46] <magnon> hehe
[01:46] <jamey3> lol don't try convincing me anymore
[01:46] <jamey3> anyway, this is theoretical talk
[01:46] <jamey3> we're just testing a small network of maybe 5 computers with an edubuntu server
[01:46] <jamey3> using old P75 machines
[01:46] <jamey3> I think if we wanted to do it "properly" we'd migrate completely to FLOSS
[01:47] <magnon> oh ok
[01:47] <magnon> school?
[01:47] <magnon> what kind of school?
[01:47] <jamey3> secondary grammar
[01:47] <jamey3> ~750 pupils
[01:47] <magnon> what does that mean? :)
[01:47] <jamey3> 11-18yos
[01:47] <magnon> age :P
[01:47] <magnon> aha
[01:47] <jamey3> lol :P
[01:47] <ogra> jamey3, wait for our next release then, it will have much more integration love to run a whole school
[01:47] <jamey3> user passwords were wiped when we transitioned from NT4 to XP for some reason
[01:48] <jamey3> yeah, I was hoping you'd say something like that :-)
[01:48] <jamey3> is the release that one in October?
[01:48] <ogra> you cant "transition" with windows.... you reinstall ;)
[01:48] <magnon> specific requirements, do they have any subjects or whatever requiring specific windows software?
[01:48] <jamey3> yup, precisely
[01:48] <ogra> yup
[01:48] <jsgotangco> gahhh i hate being bleeding edge :P
[01:48] <jamey3> yeah, i've evaluated most of it
[01:48] <magnon> (people doing those kinds of things should run thick clients anyway)
[01:48] <magnon> (with a shared login)
[01:49] <magnon> (I'd suggest an LDAP server... which ogra will say is scheduled for the next release :D )
[01:49] <ogra> yup :)
[01:49] <magnon> or am I wrong?
[01:49] <ogra> nope
[01:49] <magnon> yay
[01:49] <jamey3> we've decided if we migrate within the next year that we'd still have a small windows network for those who are either resistant or can't find equivalents for gnu/linux
[01:49] <magnon> jamey3: what kind of programs might be the problem?
[01:49] <jamey3> but just about every application has an equivalent that's as good, if not better
[01:49] <JaneW> ogra: please review this for accuracy... Basically Edubuntu is built on top of Ubuntu but incorporates the K12 LTSP  thin client architecture, as well as Educational specific applications, aimed at the 6-18 age group.
[01:49] <jsgotangco> ogra, do i install this or do you recommend waiting for a few hours for preview?
[01:49] <ogra> jamey3, just be carefull with the licensing stuff...
[01:49] <magnon> you can do .NET stuff on Mono at least
[01:50] <magnon> openoffice does a lot
[01:50] <ogra> JaneW, looks good
[01:50] <jamey3> windows-only science-type software that the teachers have adorned to
[01:50] <magnon> jamey3: WINE might do the job
[01:50] <jamey3> yeah, the school has an MS contract
[01:50] <jamey3> yeah was thinking along those lines
[01:50] <ogra> jsgotangco, since mdz didnt uplad my patches yet, i doubt it will change much before preview....
[01:50] <jsgotangco> this xorg update pains me
[01:50] <jamey3> anyway, I'm just a friend of the head of ICT, we're working together to present a proposal atm
[01:51] <magnon> ah, OK
[01:51] <magnon> if you have any specific questions my colleague has worked in a school with kids 6-16 for many years :)
[01:51] <ogra> we didnt include wine, because you could use your win apps over the network in a ltsp environment then, no windows standard license allows this...
[01:51] <jamey3> brill thanks :)
[01:51] <magnon> I'm here most of the time so don't hesitate to ask
[01:51] <jamey3> the EULA is bad
[01:51] <ogra> so be careful with wine on ltsp ;)
[01:52] <jamey3> will take that into consideration thanks
[01:52] <magnon> jamey3: unless you're a business, I'll charge 750nok/hour ;D
[01:52] <jamey3> lol!
[01:52] <magnon> someone needs to pay for the time when I'm doing edu work for free :)
[01:52] <jamey3> :P
[01:53] <jamey3> is there any chance of a live edubuntu CD? because that would be impressive...
[01:53] <magnon> jamey3: what country is it you're in?
[01:54] <jamey3> UK
[01:54] <magnon> ah, ok
[01:54] <jamey3> you?
[01:54] <magnon> of course, you said "grammar school" :D
[01:54] <magnon> Norway
[01:54] <jamey3> :D
[01:54] <ogra> jamey3, probably a customized ubuntu live as a pet project, but nothing official...
[01:54] <jamey3> ah, nice
[01:54] <magnon> just thought if you were eastern US or Canada, you could drop by in Montreal
[01:54] <ogra> i was planning it from the beginning, but the install CD ate all my time
[01:54] <jamey3> ogra, ah ok it would just be fun to collect some machines and a client, then have it running in just a few minutes
[01:54] <jamey3> ogra, so are you one of the main devs?
[01:55] <ogra> jamey3, it wouldnt work well...
[01:55] <jamey3> magnon, I sincerely wish i could :D
[01:55] <magnon> jamey3: doesn't take long to install the server
[01:55] <jamey3> cool, I'll be testing soon
[01:55] <ogra> jamey3, i am the edubuntu dev team... there are not many others...
[01:55] <jamey3> seriously? :O
[01:55] <magnon> after release I recon you should be able to have a test case up in about 45 minutes
[01:55] <ogra> jamey3, as jsgotangco is the edubuntu doc team :)
[01:55] <jamey3> blimey!
[01:55] <jamey3> how many of the original ubuntu devs work on edubuntu?
[01:55] <magnon> JaneW is what... the advocacy team? :)
[01:56] <magnon> or general director
[01:56] <jamey3> lol
[01:56] <ogra> the latter
[01:56] <ogra> :)
[01:56] <jsgotangco> no she's the whip mistress
[01:56] <jamey3> :D
[01:56] <magnon> jamey3: bear in mind that all Ubuntu work goes into Edubuntu as well
[01:56] <magnon> and all LTSP work, same
[01:56] <jamey3> ah yeah
[01:56] <jamey3> but they are separate releases though?
[01:56] <jamey3> I mean, ShipIt will have different discs for each?
[01:56] <ogra> oh, and not to forget, highvoltage is our tuxlab consultant
[01:56] <magnon> I doubt Shipit will have Edubuntu
[01:57] <jsgotangco> jamey3, shipit won't have edubuntu
[01:57] <magnon> ogra: what am I? :P
[01:57] <jamey3> why's that?
[01:57] <ogra> jamey3, we wont have a shipit release.... only isos for now... canonical wants to see how much community involvement starts
[01:57] <jamey3> oh i see
[01:57] <magnon> jamey3: too expensive to run two sets for now I guess - and you can install breezy and download an extra package set for edubuntu
[01:57] <jamey3> so how intertwined are you guys with canonical?
[01:57] <ogra> it consts a hell lot of money to ship them... our marketing wanrs a proof first :)
[01:58] <jamey3> magnon, I thought that's how it'd be
[01:58] <magnon> breezy server install + apt-get install edubuntu-server edubuntu-desktop might do it, I dunno
[01:58] <jsgotangco> i have no professional relationship with canonical
[01:58] <ogra> magnon, yup
[01:58] <jamey3> does anybody?
[01:58] <jsgotangco> JaneW,
[01:58] <magnon> I have no professional relationship with canonical either... unless an escalation support agreement counts :)
[01:58] <jamey3> lol
[01:58] <ogra> magnon, but that wont install the ltsp client environment automatically...
[01:58] <jamey3> I mean it all seems a bit disjointed in that respect, not that's wholy bad
[01:58] <magnon> ogra and janew are canonites I guess
[01:58] <ogra> i work for canonical...
[01:59] <jamey3> that's what I meant
[01:59] <magnon> I guess some of you guys do random work on Edubuntu too, right?
[01:59] <jamey3> so do you think Edubuntu is going to be the best solution available for schools when it's finished?
[01:59] <magnon> jamey3: of course!
[01:59] <jamey3> :)
[01:59] <jsgotangco> well not on the first release..we do it one step at a time
[02:00] <ogra> jamey3, i think edubuntu is the best solution for standalone ltsp installs...
[02:00] <jamey3> the release in October will be quite usable though?
[02:00] <jsgotangco> we can't promise the community everything
[02:00] <jamey3> true
[02:00] <jamey3> ogra, brilliant. well i've got a bit of convincing to do but i'm sure many more schools in the UK will start migrating (eventually)
[02:00] <ogra> that was our target for this release...
[02:00] <ogra> yeah
[02:00] <jsgotangco> if i get it right, ogra did a meta package for edubuntu that will make your ubuntu be an edubuntu but i maybe wrong
[02:01] <ogra> jsgotangco, not completely...
[02:01] <JaneW> meeting!
[02:01] <jsgotangco> meeting?
[02:01] <jsgotangco> noooo
[02:01] <ogra> yup
[02:01] <JaneW> ** REMINDER** Edubuntu update meeting NOW in #ubuntu-meeting
[02:01] <jamey3> in #edubuntu-meeting?
[02:01] <ogra> NOW !!
[02:01] <jamey3> oh lol
[02:01] <jsgotangco> i have xorg issues
[02:01] <jamey3> what like?
[02:01] <jsgotangco> i can barely use my touchpad
[02:01] <jamey3> synaptics?
[02:01] <jsgotangco> no that was fixed
[02:01] <jsgotangco> daniels reverted
[02:01] <magnon> NOW!
[02:01] <jamey3> lol
[02:02] <jamey3> so is there any way I can help with Edubuntu?
[02:02] <magnon> probably
[02:02] <magnon> :)
[02:03] <magnon> always
[02:03] <jamey3> :)
[02:03] <jsgotangco> of course
[02:03] <magnon> you could test
[02:03] <jamey3> right, that's definitely going to happen
[02:03] <jamey3> but what else could I do?
[02:03] <jsgotangco> artwork
[02:03] <jsgotangco> documentation
[02:03] <magnon> translations
[02:04] <magnon> color -> colour etc. :P
[02:04] <jamey3> :D
[02:04] <jamey3> where can I find what "needs doing"?
[02:04] <magnon> hm
[02:05] <magnon> here and there on edubuntu.org
[02:05] <magnon> I guess ogra/jane could help a bit after the meeting :)
[02:08] <magnon> oh, jolly
[02:08] <magnon> "need to get 400-ish MB of packages"
[02:08] <jamey3> lmao
[02:08] <jamey3> so for artwork have we just got the logo?
[02:09] <highvoltage> ogra: soeey, was away.
[02:10] <highvoltage> sorry even. did you ask me about the ram, or give advice to someone?
[02:10] <magnon> highvoltage: I did
[02:10] <magnon> just asked what your testing resulted in
[02:14] <highvoltage> magnon: i haven't been to many schools recently, so haven't tested on anything else than my home system.
[02:14] <magnon> ok
[02:14] <highvoltage> i'm interested to see how much RAM it will use, compared to other systems.
[02:15] <magnon> so far my experience is that CPU power is not very important, especially after 2.6
[02:15] <magnon> about 100mb per client of RAM is good
[02:15] <highvoltage> i'd say it's the absolute minimum.
[02:15] <magnon> I don't expect every client to be online at all times
[02:16] <magnon> and lots of things get shared
[02:16] <highvoltage> and i don't think there's much you can do to get away with it, unless you use xfce instead of gnome, abiword instead of OOo, and even then, i would say at least 60-80 mb.
[02:17] <highvoltage> if they're not all on-line, it is different. we've seen performance drop drastically, by just growing a lab from 20 workstations to 24 with a server with 2GB ram.
[02:17] <magnon> so, 100 per ;)
[02:18] <magnon> oh well, since I do this commercially I expect there to be a certain investment, especially in the server
[02:19] <magnon> if I was working voluntary for a school I'd just tell them to live with it if they couldnt do the investment :)
[02:19] <magnon> but it should be possible to set off 150mb per client
[02:29] <JaneW> highvoltage: PING
[03:11] <magnon> all got things to do like making dinner
[03:11] <magnon> :)
[03:18] <magnon> yarf. since when was onions supposed to make you sneeze?
[03:26] <magnon> Haha.
[03:26] <magnon> my colleague just got off the phone with a school
[03:27] <magnon> talked to them about canonical escalated support after explaining them that we cant go out there to fix every single time there's a borked up printer queue
[03:27] <magnon> and they sounded like they expected canonical to go out there instead of us
[03:27] <ogra> heh
[03:27] <magnon> Just got a messy picture in my head of jdub going down there
[03:28] <magnon> "Hi, I'm Jeff Waugh, I'm here to fix your printer queue"
[03:28] <magnon> "Need any pants?"
[03:28] <magnon> etc.
[03:28] <ogra> heh, jdub would be perfect... he has the longest travle diatance :)
[03:28] <ogra> distance
[03:29] <ogra> "yes, we charge only $50 per issue, but you need to pay the travelling costs from sydney for our technician"
[03:29] <ogra> *g*
[03:30] <magnon> no you don't
[03:30] <magnon> incident fixes are free with the escalation support
[03:30] <magnon> ;)
[03:30] <magnon> so just the travel
[03:30] <ogra> heh
[03:30] <magnon> anyhow the support only covers bugfixes anyway :P
[03:31] <ogra> which probably covers the costs of a new printer :)
[03:31] <ogra> (the travel)
[03:31] <magnon> the printer is excellent, we're talking printer queues ;)
[03:32] <magnon> anyone who worked more than ten minutes in a school know that printer queues are priceless
[03:32] <ogra> yip, thats the same in offices
[03:32] <magnon> "WHAT? You DELETED <insert important document here> from the email after printing it?"
[03:33] <ogra> :)
[03:55] <magnon> wow
[03:55] <magnon> setup is still working
[03:55] <magnon> granted, it is not the best server
[03:57] <ogra> the net variant of ltsp-build-client is darn slow, thats why i move it to a Cd install
[03:57] <magnon> im not even there yet
[04:09] <magnon> finally!
[04:13] <magnon> rah
[04:13] <magnon> the dhcp config doesnt seem to work
[04:14] <ogra> if ltsp-server is installed it should work by default
[04:14] <magnon> doesnt
[04:14] <magnon> wont start
[04:14] <magnon> says I have no subnets properly configured and almost the whole config file is commented out
[04:14] <ogra> you took the offered IP from the installer ?
[04:15] <magnon> it asked me for one
[04:15] <magnon> I gave it one. :P
[04:15] <ogra> the dhcp config isnt used, it uses the one from /etc/ltsp
[04:15] <ogra> todays CD should provide a default one
[04:15] <magnon> I have yesterdays
[04:15] <magnon> :p
[04:15] <ogra> ah...
[04:16] <ogra> make the ip <IP_ADDRESS>
[04:16] <ogra> then try again
[04:16] <magnon> then it wont go online though
[04:17] <ogra> you have only one device ?
[04:17] <magnon> on this box
[04:17] <ogra> then create an alias device
[04:17] <ogra> sudo ifconfig eth0:0 <yourip>
[04:18] <magnon> are there many configurations using the .0 subnet?
[04:18] <ogra> and: sudo route add default gw <yourgwinthennet>
[04:18] <ogra> the default one does
[04:20] <magnon> yay
[08:54] <Petaris> highvoltage: Did you write that script to push icons?
[08:55] <highvoltage>  Petaris: no, it came from K12-LTSP.
[08:56] <Petaris> ahh
[08:56] <Petaris> ok
[08:56] <highvoltage> I think it differs only slightly from the original script.
[08:56] <Petaris> I need to modify it but I'm not quite sure how to do it
[08:56] <highvoltage> how does it need to be modified?
[08:57] <Petaris> I want to modify it to copy everything under /home/hitomi (my template user) to all user directories, and overwrite anything already there
[08:58] <Petaris> er, to all home directories starting with elem_
[08:58] <highvoltage> ok. the script copies whatever file it finds as an arguement to the /home/user/Desktop directories.
[08:58] <Petaris> and then change the permissions
[08:58] <Petaris> yep
[08:59] <Petaris> I thought it would be a good starting point for the script I need
[08:59] <highvoltage> i suggest you look at that script, and take away the Desktop part, and pass the directory contents as the arguement.
[08:59] <Petaris> how can I make cp copy files and directories with a . in front of them?
[09:00] <Petaris> do I just do a cp -a?
[09:00] <highvoltage> i think that works.
[09:00] <Petaris> ok
[09:00] <highvoltage> what i do is use cp .* /whereever
[09:01] <Petaris> yeah, but then you only get the hidden files
[09:01] <Petaris> I just want everything
[09:04] <highvoltage> -R
[09:04] <highvoltage> recursive
[09:04] <Petaris> ok, I'll give that a try
[09:05] <highvoltage> Petaris: goodnight
[09:05] <Petaris> highvoltage: night, and thanks


[00:21] <bjf> crimsun, got to run for now but I'll be back
[00:21] <crimsun> bjf: sure, just working out the -meta split
[03:31] <tvrotsurbrain> !ops
[03:31] <ubot3> Help! lamont, zul, T-Bone, mdz, or jdub
[03:31] <tvrotsurbrain> !staff
[03:31] <ubot3> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, PriceChild, niko or stew, I could use a bit of your time :)
[03:48] <mozmck> I'm getting a bunch of errors like this trying to run debian.master/scripts/misc/kernelconfig oldconfig
[03:48] <mozmck> kernel/ubuntu-karmic//config/amd64: No such file or directory
[03:48] <paultag> Hey hackers. I need some help with the kmalloc implementation. Anyone know the details of how it's implemented in the kernel ( how it works out where it pulls mem from / the flag system etc )
[03:49] <mozmck> This is with the ubuntu-karmic git tree.
[03:49] <cooloney> mozmck: run 'fakeroot debian/rules clean'
[03:49] <cooloney> mozmck: then try 'fakeroot debian/rules editconfigs'
[03:50] <mozmck> will do, thanks.  I'm trying to add another flavour for an rtai patch.
[03:50] <cooloney> mozmck: and we use 'fdr' alias to 'fakeroot debian/rules'
[03:50] <mozmck> It adds some kernel config options, will they show up properly?
[03:50] <cooloney> yeah,
[03:50] <cooloney> mozmck: try fdr help
[03:50] <mozmck> so I can type fdr?
[03:51] <mozmck> 'fdr help' No command 'fdr' found...
[03:51] <cooloney> oh you need to add this -> alias fdr='fakeroot debian/rules' into your .bashrc
[03:52] <cooloney> or just fakeroot debian/rules help
[03:53] <mozmck> I see.  thanks.  Also, I switched back to bash from dash because there have been programs that wouldn't compile under dash.  That shouldn't be a problem for working with the kernel scripts should it?
[03:54] <cooloney> mozmck: bash is ok, i think, but i never change my shell program
[03:54] <mozmck> haven't had any problem with bash so far, and that's what I've used for years.  dash has given a few problems...
[03:56] <cooloney> mozmck: heh, i guess you can ping Herbert Xu, he is the author of dash,
[03:57] <paultag> Any chance I can get a kernel guru to enlighten me? :)
[03:57] <mozmck> It was probably related to how the scripts in the build system for those programs worked.
[03:57]  * mozmck no guru
[03:58] <cooloney> paultag: you can grep the kmalloc in kernel source code,
[03:58] <paultag> cooloney, that's all well and good, but I'd spend a long time tracing code back to how it manages a lot more then just the heap. I was looking for some insight from a hacker
[03:59] <paultag> cooloney, I started doing that and got lost
[03:59] <cooloney> paultag: yeah, that is very tedius, but i suggest you to post email on LKML for help
[04:00] <paultag> cooloney, awww. Crap. They always hate the friendly n00b.
[04:00] <paultag> cooloney, thanks anywho
[04:00] <cooloney> paultag: most of the kernel hackers are there, or you can send out email to the mm developer directly, heh
[04:01] <paultag> cooloney, I'm probably better working off working it out by hand on paper :/
[04:01] <paultag> cooloney, thanks anyways :)
[04:01] <paultag> I'll leave ya'll to your hacking :) -- thanks for the stable kernels :)
[17:02] <tim> hi all, is it possible to apply a patch to the module sources before building it with dkms? i am trying to build the nvidia driver for 2.6.33-rc
[17:50]  * cking having bad network afternoon
[21:18] <dhillon-v10> hi all, just wanted to know if its possible to get links for *all* the kernel-bug days that took place
[21:24] <achiang> what does it mean if a kernel bug is in "confirmed" state? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/463940
[21:24] <ubot3> Malone bug 463940 in linux "No fans, thermalzone on HP Envy 15 and HP DV6T Quad" [Medium,Confirmed]
[21:28] <dhillon-v10> achiang: that means someone else tested it and it indeed is a bug :)
[21:29] <achiang> dhillon-v10: ah, so has nothing to do with actually shipping the fix? :)
[21:30] <dhillon-v10> achiang: well that means devs will work on that one as soon as they find the time, or you can go ahead and work on it ;)


[00:49] <wxl> can you boot it now?
[00:52] <wxl> apparently you deleted the partitions (think of it as putting fences around data) but the data didn't remove
[01:11] <wxl> i think it will. from what i can tell those references on wikipedia are old and the bug is supposedly fixed
 excuse me, on lubuntu 18.04, where I can manage startup applications ?
[06:10] <wxl> yep
[06:11] <wxl> see autostart tab in lxsession-default-apps or whatever it's called
[06:12] <diogenes_> devikri or put your app.desktp in ~/.config/autostart
[06:18] <riaan> hi
[06:18] <wxl> heyo
[06:18] <riaan> good morning
[06:18] <wxl> not for everyone :) (well, it's good but not morning)
[06:19] <riaan> its 08 19 am here
[06:19] <wxl> which would make the greeting sensible… just not for everyone :)
[06:20] <riaan> lets say : good 24hr spin around the sun  :)
[06:20] <wxl> maybe good current position in spacetime? XD
[06:23] <riaan> why everyone so quiet ?
[06:24] <wxl> because this isn't the chat channel (that's #lubuntu-offtopic) but also probably because everyone's sleeping
[06:25] <riaanbth> had to change name
[16:37] <rapidwave> How do I change default file browser from Dolphin to Nautilus?
 isnt default file browser pcman?
[16:58] <rapidwave> Actually, yes, but I want to use nautilus
 i know just a little about this
 im also not sure if it s right
 you can use nautilus, normally, but making it defauld is another thing
 desktop opens with default file browser, so ur system opens with it
 that makes it hard to be stable if u change something that importand
[17:52] <wxl> naw you can use lx(qt-)session to change default anything
 i updated system and tried to make vivaldi default browser but didnt work
 after log out-in ofc
[18:01] <wxl> see what @kc2bez said about that. it's a bug in lxqt basically, but just in regards to the browser.
 when u said anything, i thought u just released an update after he said that:D


[10:04] <czajkowski> sladen: ping
[11:02] <sladen> czajkowski: .
[11:03] <czajkowski> sladen: herrrro
[11:03] <czajkowski> I found jibel instead to helpwith a bug
[11:03] <czajkowski> sladen: hows you?
[11:04] <sladen> czajkowski: busy.  Thursday is your day in, isn't it?
[11:04] <czajkowski> wednesday
[11:04] <czajkowski> was gonna go in yesterday but was too busy
[11:04] <czajkowski> was gonna go in torday to see humans but have cleaner here