[04:41] <guiverc> Can someone please tell me which file/dir is the control directory "brz: ERROR: A control directory already exists: ..."  (i accidently wiped overwrote a file-system with errant `dd`, and data is restored but maybe missing some .files)
[10:29] <CcxWrk> guiverc: I'd probably just  strace -fe trace file  and see where it breaks. What are you trying to do?
[12:12] <guiverc> Thanks for reply CcxWrk, sorry I haven't time currently & got stuff to do before bed.. another night.. (I overwrote a server array with a stupid `dd` of ISO so I'm trying to get `bzr status` to complete my [Lubuntu] QA testcases  (https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr/+question/688323 was question I raised)
[12:13] <CcxWrk> So this is a data rescue operation?
[12:15] <guiverc> Not really, i have all data (excluding .files) I believe; also being testcases nothing really critical.. but my not saving .files meant I think the data restore didn't make bzr happy
[12:16] <guiverc> .files meaning anything starting with .(period)
[12:22] <CcxWrk> Got it. Yeah, run   strace -fe trace=file bzr yourcommand  and nuke whatever it crashes on.
[12:24] <CcxWrk> That's the best thing I can think of without grepping bzr sources anyway.
[12:31] <guiverc> Thanks CcxWrk , I'll likely try this tomorrow :)  Greatly appreciate the help, so thank you.
[17:52] <jelmer> the control directory is ".bzr"


[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: strange thing is that there is no version number..... hum dch -n doesn't like ~ caracter, looks like :)
[12:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: once again sorry for the issue
[04:23] <jds663> was xgl mandatory with the last batch of updates?? my system is unusable.. 100% cpu load.. running xgl
[05:44] <nixternal> howdy
[07:16] <Hobbsee> yay, patches.
[07:49] <mike_moose> Hello.
[07:52] <Hobbsee> hiya
[07:52] <Hobbsee> darn, tonio is not here
[08:16] <Hobbsee> too many bugs...
[09:45] <blekos> hi, i've upgraded from feisty but cannot find strigi...
[09:46] <Lure> blekos: go to panel, right click, add applet to panel
[09:47] <Lure> blekos: or strigi:/ in konqueror
[09:48] <blekos> i went to the adept manager and show that files with the name strigi were not installed
[09:49] <blekos> it is not available in the add applet
[09:50] <blekos> i'm just wondering if strigi was not installed, maybe there are other features that did not install
[09:50] <Jucato> perhaps you haven't fully upgraded to gutsy yet? also please check if the metapackage kubuntu-desktop is installed
[09:51] <blekos> kubuntu-desktop & kubuntu-default-settings are both installed
[09:52] <Jucato> hmm...
[09:54] <blekos> the other thing is that i don know how to use opensync,
[09:54] <blekos> i have a pda-mobile
[09:54] <blekos> but I cannot see any gui tool in Kontact
[09:55] <Hobbsee> er, i'd guess that apt doesnt upgrade first....
[09:55] <Hobbsee> and so recommends dont get installed by default
[09:56] <blekos> so, when the final release is out everything will be installed?
[09:57] <Hobbsee> did you use a dist-upgrade, or the upgrade tool?
[09:57] <blekos> dist-upgrade
[09:57] <Hobbsee> hm.
[09:58] <Jucato> I dist-upgraded from feisty (command line system, no GUI) to gutsy on my desktop. didn't have a problem there
[09:58] <Jucato> but that was last week
[09:58] <Hobbsee> Jucato: wouldnt have done recommends, though
[09:59] <Hobbsee> Jucato: unless you upgraded apt first.
[09:59] <Jucato> yeah. but I mean everything got installed. including strigit
[09:59] <Hobbsee> Jucato: interesting...
[09:59] <Jucato> didn't notice opensync though
[10:01] <blekos> apart from these too, everything *seems* to work fine
[10:01] <blekos> didn't have any msgs about restarting though
[10:02] <blekos> but as I can see adept-notifier is installed
[10:02] <Hobbsee> no, you wouldnt.  you used a dist-upgrade.
[10:02] <blekos> ok
[10:02] <blekos> any ideas about opensync?
[10:02] <Hobbsee> you didnt get an update-notifier from adept prompt to reboot, because you didnt use adept to dist-upgrade.
[10:02] <Hobbsee> nope, i only have 1 bluetooth device.
[10:04] <blekos> how about the firefox plugin where do i find it?
[10:06] <Hobbsee> in the repository somewhere
[10:06] <Hobbsee> should be a part of ubufox, i'd expect
[10:19] <blekos> final question, please bare with me, i wen to system settings->monitor & display click on "administration mode" and ...
[10:19] <blekos> i was just let in, didnt ask for pwssd....
[10:19] <blekos> *psswd
[10:21] <Jucato> if you have used kdesu(do) earlier to do some administrative stuff, it remembers the password for a few minutes
[10:21] <Jucato> just like sudo in the command line
[10:22] <Jucato> see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe5/Kubuntu#head-5ab46eafbb5cb096dd81d996d6e568651085469d
[10:25] <blekos> i guess it has to do with using the adept-manager where i was prompet for my psswd
[10:25] <blekos> i'll wait for 15min and see what happenes
[02:46] <Jucato> nixternal: since you're a bit awake, could you check if Input Actions is completely Empty or I'm just fscked up?
[02:47] <nixternal> guide me master
[02:47] <Jucato> haha
[02:47] <Jucato> System Settings -> Accessibility
[02:47] <Jucato> or KControl -> Regional & Accessbility :)
[02:47] <Jucato> which could explain why pressing PrintScreen doesn't launch KSnapshot here...
[02:47] <nixternal> I have kde-konqbrowser.desktop and kde-ksnapshot.desktop
[02:48] <Jucato> er.. hm...
[02:48] <Jucato> ok I'm fscked up then hahah :)
[02:48] <nixternal> well...I have been dist-upgrading since dapper
[02:48] <nixternal> if you installed fresh, you might have different results
[02:48] <Jucato> I guess I kinda messed up when I copied over my .kde from feisty to gutsy hehehe
[02:49] <Jucato> hm... or maybe not :/
[02:49] <Jucato> so what are you doing up so early on a Sunday morn? :)
[02:50] <nixternal> I crashed kind of early last night
[02:50] <Jucato> on a Saturday night? you're weird! :P
[02:50] <nixternal> yup, I know
[02:58] <Jucato> anyway, enjoy your Sunday. I'll just poke around tomorrow :)
[02:58] <nixternal> why thank you
[03:20] <nixternal> " I am not really that happy with Kubuntu, because I've just learned that they have only 2 runlevels by default."
[03:21] <nixternal> ^^ that is from the recent behind kde interview with the GSoC people...am I missing something
[03:21] <Jucato> O.o
[03:21] <nixternal> he is referring to the 2 levels provided in grub I take it
[03:23] <nixternal> does anyone provide anything more init 1 and init 5?
[03:23] <nixternal> all he has to do is take it init 3 from kdm :)
[03:24] <nixternal> "What is KDE's killer app? Why?"
[03:24] <nixternal> Andrew Manson's answer is the best!
[03:25] <nixternal> "KDevelop! Why? Because I don't understand how to use it! It's just like the view of a cockpit in a plane, so many buttons and you don't have a clue what half of them do... but it looks pretty"
[03:26] <Jucato> lol
[03:26] <Jucato> it's nice to occasionally get "strange" answers hehehe
[03:27] <nixternal> all but 1 of the 4 screenshots for their desktop is Kubuntu \o/
[03:33] <Jucato> who says Kubuntu isn't loved by upstream? hehehe :P
[03:42] <milian> can anyone reproduce this: when I search in konqueror using the "websearch" next to the location bar (with google) it always prepends "locate " in front of my search strings
[03:42] <milian> (but searches on google)
[03:43] <milian> google is set as default search engine and locate is disabled though it still behaves that way...
[03:43] <milian> and this is new with gutsy
[03:45] <nixternal> works for me
[03:49] <milian> nixternal: try setting the separator to space instead of a colon
[03:49] <milian> it works for me as well with colons
[03:50] <nixternal> why would I do that?
[03:50] <milian> it's a setting in the short handle menu so why shouldn't it work there? ;-)
[03:51] <nixternal> are you talking using gg:
[03:51] <nixternal> gg: is for the location bar only
[03:51] <nixternal> not only, but made for it in particular
[03:51] <milian> wait a moment, I switch my language to english and describe what I mean
[03:52] <milian> Settings > Configure Konqueror > Web Shortcuts > Keyword Delimiter > Space
[03:53] <milian> than:
[03:53] <milian> Websearch (input field right to the location bar)
[03:53] <milian> select google and search for anything
[03:53] <milian> e.g. "foobar"
[03:53] <milian> it will search for "locate foobar"
[03:53] <milian> switch the keyword delimiter back to a colon and it works
[03:53] <nixternal> it is working with the space as well for me
[03:54] <milian> strange
[03:54] <milian> but thank you
[03:54] <nixternal> no prob
[03:54] <nixternal> hrmm, I might prefer the space over : now :)
[03:54] <milian> ;-)
[03:55] <nixternal> oh man, I just set my default to google...no more typing gg: or gg
[03:56] <milian> funny it works for me as well now
[03:56] <milian> but please _dont_ ask why
[03:57] <milian> voodoo but ok ;-)
[04:15] <ryanakca> nixternal: Hmm. Does this pre-pre-draft (waay too many screenshots) documentation for Kontact + eGroupWare look good? http://groupware.kubuntu.co.uk/~ryan/eGroupWare-HOWTO.html
[04:16] <ryanakca> (aka, am I missing anything)
[04:22] <ryanakca> Jucato: hmm. ever thought of teaching a class?
[04:22] <ryanakca> Jucato: Mez and I are trying to revive the now long-dead classroom project
[04:22] <Jucato> oh that.. hm... sorry nope :(
[04:23] <ryanakca> hmmm
[04:23] <nixternal> ryanakca: looks good
[04:24] <Jucato> sorry ryanakca.. I sort of have a phobia of teaching in any real-time setting
[04:24] <ryanakca> Jucato: no worries :)
[04:24] <ryanakca> nixternal: okies
[04:26] <manchicken> kmail hasn't been working properly for several days over here.
[04:26] <nixternal> ya, I can't even use it for email safely
[04:26] <Jucato> oh...
[04:26] <nixternal> I am thinking about going back to Mutt
[04:27] <Jucato> the only kdepim app that I'm liking right now is akregator... kmail, korganizer, and right now, kaddressbook are all giving me headaches and heartaches...
[04:29] <manchicken> Nice.
[04:29] <manchicken> kpilot seems to be more stable than it was... e.g. not crashing after EVERY sync.
[04:29] <nixternal> I am POP3 also, only because I wanted to use Kontact/KMail and knew of the IMAP problems
[04:30] <Jucato> wished toma made mailody with pop3 support...
[04:30] <nixternal> hehe
[04:36] <ryanakca> hmm... imap problems? where?
[04:37] <nixternal> kmail is plagued with them according to the bug reports
[04:37] <nixternal> out of all of the bug reports, only a few are pop3 or smtp related..the rest are imap
[04:38] <ryanakca> Heh
[04:38] <Jucato> isn't it because of imap kmail issues that toma started mailody?
[04:38] <nixternal> I believe so
[04:38] <ryanakca> yeah
[04:38] <Jucato> oh well....
[04:39] <ryanakca> kaddressbook is a pain
[04:40] <Jucato> it' s only now that I realize it... having been forcing myself to use it for the whole day...
[04:41] <ryanakca> And I haven't found any way to 'force' it... the sync button doesn't do anything...
[04:41] <Jucato> I'm glad I haven't had yet the misfortune of trying to sync anything... groupware or mobile device...
[04:42] <nixternal> so much negativity
[04:42] <nixternal> ARGH! stupid pasting crash!@::!
[04:42] <nixternal> :)
[04:42] <Jucato> heh :)
[04:42] <Jucato> and on a sunday for that matter
[04:43] <nixternal> it has been crashing since yesterday
[04:43] <nixternal> you can't paste anything into a kmails composer
[04:43] <Jucato> and it apparently hangs if you try to :)
[04:44] <Jucato> and crashed kontact. yay
[04:47] <ryanakca> yep
[04:47] <ryanakca> I can confirm
[04:48] <nixternal> muhahaha
[04:48] <Jucato> nice isn't it?
[04:48] <Jucato> you have 2 confirmations for your bug :P
[04:48] <Jucato> 2 unwitting, gullible victims
[04:49] <ryanakca> bug 130392
[04:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130392 in kdepim "kmail locks when pasting text into composer" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130392
[04:49] <ryanakca> been around for a couple days
[04:50] <Jucato> heh
[04:50] <Jucato> shows how much I don't compose mails :)
[04:50] <nixternal> shows how much I don't paste into composer I guess
[04:50] <nixternal> I just noticed it yesterday trying to reply to Jono
[04:50] <nixternal> fix released upstream as well
[04:50] <nixternal> nice
[04:51] <ryanakca> yep
[04:51] <Jucato> good..
[04:51] <Jucato> wonder if there will be a KDE 3.5.8...
[04:51] <nixternal> yes
[04:51] <milian> was about time
[04:52] <nixternal> 3.5.8 could very well be the last 3.x release :(
[04:52] <Jucato> I thought so too..
[04:52] <Jucato> aw... they still need to release bug fixes/patches :(
[04:52] <Jucato> specially for kdepim!!!
[04:53] <nixternal> wait a second..that upstream bug report for the paste crash was filed by me in June
[04:53] <ryanakca> guess not
[04:53] <Jucato> lol
[04:53] <ryanakca> and looks like it's two different bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/130392/comments/2
[04:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130392 in kdepim "kmail locks when pasting text into composer" [Medium,Confirmed]
[04:54] <nixternal> I am not poking them anymore
[04:54] <nixternal> I think it is 2 different bugs
[04:54] <ryanakca> It is
[04:54] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, I know it is 2 different bugs
[04:54] <Jucato> mine locked, then when I tried to close it, it crashed
[04:54] <nixternal> because now you can't paste anything
[04:54] <ryanakca> Jucato: crashed when I went to minimize
[04:55] <ryanakca> remove the upstream link from the lp bug?
[04:55] <nixternal> I would have to say yes...it is 2 different issues
[04:57] <nixternal> how do you remove an upstream bug?
[04:57] <Jucato> you can't
[04:57] <Hobbsee> hit the arrow, say tha tit's nto tracked upstream
[04:58] <Jucato> I think you have to ask them to close it for you
[04:58] <Hobbsee> no, you can close it yourself..
[04:58] <ryanakca> I dunno. Best thing from what I see is to set it 'invalid', and it doesn't point to any upstream bug.
[04:58] <nixternal> you know what...Fritz hijacked bug 130392
[04:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130392 in kdepim "kmail locks when pasting text into composer" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130392
[04:58] <nixternal> those are 2 different issues...I think the original issue was related to the upstream bug report I filed in June
[04:58] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: like so?
[04:59] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: yep tha's it
[04:59] <ryanakca> nixternal: hehe, we both removed it at the same time :)
[04:59] <nixternal> muhahah
[05:10] <ryanakca> hey bddebian
[05:10] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[05:11] <ryanakca> hmm. does this seem to be a good 'Disclaimer' to be sent in the login emails, and displayed at the login screen for the server? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/36050/
[05:11] <ryanakca> s/LOG OFF IMMEDIATELY/DO NOT USE THIS SYSTEM/
[05:11] <bddebian> Heya gang
[05:11] <bddebian> Hi ryanakca, Jucato
[05:30] <ryanakca> nixternal: sent :)
[05:31] <Hobbsee> oh, bugger.  i should have put out a meeting notice
[05:31] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee :)
[05:31] <Hobbsee> hiya Jucato
[05:31] <Jucato> wait, it should be morning there now right? O.o
[05:32] <nixternal> Hobbsee: yes please do put out a meeting notice
[05:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's about 1.30am, my clock tells me
[05:32] <Jucato> ouch..
[05:33] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: meeting? Kubuntu-Devel?
[05:33] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: yes
[05:34] <ryanakca> cool
[05:34] <ryanakca> pitty it's too late to try to organize a time with eGroupWare's free/busy feature
[05:35] <Hobbsee> unsure of the point - it's mostly blocked on me
[05:36] <Hobbsee> probably...2200 tuesday, or so.
[05:37] <Hobbsee> or otherwise 1400 UTC...um....tuesday or thursday
[05:37] <Hobbsee> all of your good times are while i'm asleep
[05:38] <ScottK> So don't sleep.  Sleep is for the weak.
[05:38] <nixternal> ouch
[05:38] <Hobbsee> i get sick if i dont sleep.
[05:38] <nixternal> I guess I am weak...
[05:39] <nixternal> 00:00:50 [    ScottK]  I'm actually getting very close to passing out and going to bed for the night.
[05:39] <nixternal> that was 10.5 hours ago :)
[05:39] <nixternal> muhehehehe
[05:39] <ScottK> It was actually several hours after that I went to bed.
[05:39] <nixternal> but you said sleep is for the weak...are you...
[05:40] <nixternal> damn, beat me to it
[05:40] <nixternal> hrmm, I am finding interesting results on "would you prefer 1 desktop environment instead of the many there currently are?" and "would you prefer 1 linux distro compared to the many there are?"
[05:41] <nixternal> there are quite a few people that would prefer 1 DE and 1 distro...that is scary
[05:41] <Hobbsee> mmm...very scary
[05:41] <nixternal> 1 distro provides you with the following choice: Windows, Linux, Mac, BSD
[05:41] <ScottK> I'd prefer one too as long as it's exactly what I want.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> well, that's fine, as long as the distro is ubuntu, and the DE is kde.
[05:41] <nixternal> OK, I don't like this distro of Linux, so good-bye :)
[05:42] <nixternal> ScottK: see, and that is why 1 distro would never work..the same with 1 de
[05:42] <nixternal> Hobbsee: hahaha, pwnd!!!
[05:42] <ScottK> Of course.  Wanting is not the same as getting.
[05:42] <Jucato> it's hard to shake of people's old mentality of 1 DE/OS/Distro...
[05:42] <bddebian> Espeically us Windows users since it already has everything..
[05:43] <nixternal> lol
[05:43] <Jucato> yes it has everything...
[05:43] <nixternal> boo
[05:43] <Jucato> including viruses.. right?
[05:43] <Jucato> unfortunately we can't include those :(
[05:43] <Jucato> ah cruel fate
[05:43] <nixternal> could you imagine all of the distro and de devs trying to come together on 1 project? the power struggles, my lord it would fail misserably
[05:44] <Hobbsee> nixternal: they seem to be on kde4
[05:44] <Jucato> fail miserably? it wouldn't even start :)
[05:44] <Hobbsee> well, multidistros
[05:44] <nixternal> interesting finding though,, people who I have asked, if it were 1 DE, the 2 top choices are 1) Xfce and 2) KDE
[05:44] <Jucato> aw poor GNOME...
[05:44] <nixternal> ya, which totally blew my mind
[05:45] <nixternal> I love the recent dose of reality, as a lot of darkside users were saying KDE reinvented the wheel, only to find out, d'oh the Gnu Project did :)
[05:45] <Jucato> and it didn't exactly reinvent the wheel...
[05:45] <Jucato> in all aspects...
[05:46] <nixternal> well true, but it created something that was not needed...they had to do their power struggle thing about the whole non-free licensing issue
[05:46] <Jucato> besides, if not for the pressure created by the existence of GNOME (and Harmony), Trolltech might have not had released Qt under GPL sooner
[05:46] <nixternal> but Qt had released a GPL compatible license before there was even a beta test of gnome
[05:47] <Jucato> and without GNOME showing us how to do things wrong... where would KDE be?
[05:47] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[05:47] <nixternal> I just 2.5 months with gnome...and I have come to like just 1 feature
[05:47] <nixternal> tomboy
[05:47] <nixternal> s/just 2.5/just did 2.5/
[05:48] <Jucato> ah tomboy.. yes
[05:48] <Jucato> before strigi was, I also liked the deskbar applet
[05:49] <nixternal> for instance...setting up my 19" widescreen lcd and radeon video card meant I had to dpkg-reconfigure x, go in and manually edit xorg.conf...in Kubuntu, System Settings -> Display, grab the 1440x900 LCD, Use the r300 free driver, hit ok, and then ctrl+alt+backspace
[05:49] <nixternal> and this feature has been in KDE for years!
[05:50] <Jucato> actually... well nvm :P
[05:50] <nixternal> hehe
[05:50] <nixternal> I need to setup strigi, it never installed itself by default
[05:50] <Jucato> hm.. someone was in here earlier (yesterday?) wondering about that too
[05:50] <Jucato> dist-upgrading to gutsy never installed strigi for him
[05:52] <nixternal> dist-upgrading doesn't install anything new from what I have noticed..it just updates what you have, and pulls in new deps if needed
[05:52] <nixternal> it doesn't remove anything either
[05:52] <nixternal> man, I have started a great discussion in the chicago lug irc channel about 1 de and 1 distro
[05:54] <Jucato> dist-upgrade only removes if there's a conflict because of a new dependency iirc
[07:13] <nixternal> ryanakca: my password is bogus
[07:31] <milian> KDE 4 beta 2 is not yet out, is it?
[07:32] <nixternal> nope
[08:45] <ScottK> nixternal: Thanks for letting us know.  I'd suggest changing it now that you've let us know you picked "bogus" for a password.
[08:45] <nixternal> ScottK: hahaha, my password doesn't work silly
[08:46] <nixternal> that is funny though..I wonder how many people are like trying username: nixternal password: bogus
[08:46] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:46] <ScottK> But it was funnier my way.
[08:46] <nixternal> ya it was
[09:42] <manchicken> Okay, so does anybody know what's going on with kmail?
[10:04] <odla> will there be an official kickoff package in kubuntu?
[10:11] <Riddell> only if someone makes one
[10:13] <odla> i can't even find where to get the current source code
[10:13] <Riddell> getting the patch from suse's rpm is probably best
[10:33] <manchicken> mhb: ping
[10:37] <mhb> manchicken: wow
[10:37] <mhb> manchicken: you're good at guessing when people arrive :o)
[10:37] <DaSkreech> What did I miss?
[10:38] <mhb> manchicken: what's up?
[10:38] <duccio> hi
[10:39] <duccio> Riddell: yesterday you told me about a task in startkde...do you remember?
[10:39] <mhb> DaSkreech: probably the same things as I have
[10:40] <Riddell> duccio: yes, i do
[10:40] <duccio> yes..today i read more about bash scripting
[10:40] <duccio> i've read...sorry
[10:41] <duccio> what kind of task do you need?
[10:41] <duccio> i don't remember well
[10:41] <manchicken> mhb: Having a hard time with Py-qt
[10:41] <manchicken> We need some KDE4 bindings, too.
[10:42] <mhb> manchicken: there will be some soon
[10:42] <manchicken> mhb: Got time to help me figure things out here?
[10:42] <mhb> manchicken: sure
[10:43] <Riddell> duccio: delete the splash screen cache if the wallpaper is newer
[10:43] <Riddell> duccio: so if $KDEHOME//share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin/ is older than /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.png
[10:44] <mhb> manchicken: private msg?
[10:44] <Riddell> duccio: and of course do that before ksplash is run
[10:44] <manchicken> Let me pasty the problem.  Sure, we can move it there if you want.
[10:45] <mhb> manchicken: well, I guess it would be better in private, so we don't pollute the other conversations in here
[10:48] <duccio> Riddell: so the task must delete the content of $KDEHOME//share/apps/ksplash/cache/Moodin/ if this is older than /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.png...is correct?
[10:48] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Is there a KDE art Chan?
[10:50] <kwwii> DaSkreech: #kde-artists ...if it is oxygen specific #oxygen
[10:50] <Riddell> duccio: yes, that's right
[10:50] <DaSkreech> kwwii: thanks
[10:50] <kwwii> np
[11:31] <ryanakca> nixternal: hmm. sorry, I'll change it
[11:37] <ryanakca> nixternal: sent a new copy, should work, it's a copy-paste
[11:53] <duccio> Riddell: I've done the task...how can I show you the script?
[11:55] <SlimG> When will OOo be replaced by koffice?
[12:01] <DaSkreech> nixternal: You wanna take that? :)
[12:04] <duccio> Riddell: After that?
[12:08] <mhb> SlimG: when we compare OOo and koffice and find koffice good enough for our user base.
[12:09] <mhb> SlimG: trust me, we generally believe in koffice much more than in OOo. But we would probably lose a lot of users if we provided a tool that is not "good enough".
[12:10] <SlimG> mhb: What's not good enough yet with koffice?
[12:10] <DaSkreech> mhb: I think what he wants is the bullet list of what's not good enough
[12:11] <DaSkreech> See? :)
[12:11] <SlimG> :) hehe
[12:13] <mhb> SlimG: I haven't tested KOffice in a while, so I can't really tell. I think compatibility with Microsoft Office (and I'm not sure about the compatibility with OOo either) is still not as high as in OO.org
[12:13] <mhb> SlimG: if you think otherwise, you can try to convince the developers and if you have enough arguments, perhaps they'll include it!
[12:14] <mhb> SlimG: for the Kubuntu release after "Gutsy Gibbon", which is called "Hardy Heron"
[12:18] <SlimG> I'd really like to see koffice in hardy (really? Hardy Heron!? :D hehe) but I haven't done any formatcompatibility-between-office-suits tests, I'll investigate on known compatibility issues and test compatibility and get back to the kubuntu devs if things looks good for koffice
[12:19] <DaSkreech> Actually I think for some formats Koffice has hight ODT compatibilty than OO.o
[12:19] <DaSkreech> but the real blocker is compatibilty with .doc .ooxml etc
[12:19] <SlimG> does OOo support .ooxml ?
[12:20] <mhb> DaSkreech: to be honest, that compatibility is still a big blocker of Linux in general
[12:20] <mhb> DaSkreech: OOo sucks less at it, but sucks nonetheless
[12:20] <ryanakca> mhb: have you changed your password yet? ( ssh into groupware.kubuntu.co.uk )
[12:20] <mhb> ryanakca: not yet
[12:20] <DaSkreech> mhb: Yeah but if we got Koffice to suck less than OO.o could it replace OO.o ?
[12:20] <DaSkreech> That's the question
[12:20] <mhb> DaSkreech: of course
[12:21] <DaSkreech> SlimG: they are incorporating ooXML I don't think it will be in the 2.3 relelase maybe the one after
[12:21] <mhb> DaSkreech: if it sucks less or the same, we'll go for it
[12:23] <DaSkreech> mhb: Who would be the person who Oks that?
[12:24] <mhb> DaSkreech: the Kubuntu Council is that person
[12:24] <ryanakca> mhb: wouldn't it be Kubuntu members, and then if we can't pick, the council get's to vote?
[12:25] <mhb> ryanakca: well, I guess we'd discuss it at the meeting, so everyone says their opinion and the Council OKs or denies that
[12:26] <mhb> ryanakca: he asked about who should judge that, and that is the KC
[12:28] <ryanakca> hmm. yeah
[12:28] <ryanakca> I guess :)
[12:29] <DaSkreech> Ok
[12:29] <DaSkreech> So can I put a note on the agenda for the next meeting to look to getting Koffice as default and generate a list for what that would mean?
[12:29] <ScottK> Actually on recent OOO versions I've had very little trouble with MS Office file compatibility.
[12:30] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Right :) but the point is we want Koffice to have the same boast
[12:30] <ScottK> Sure, but until it does, please don't mess with it.
[12:30] <mhb> ScottK: yeah, it's getting better, but it's still not my-non-geek-dad ready :o)
[12:30] <ScottK> All my customers use MS Office, so file compatibility is essential.
[12:31] <DaSkreech> ScottK: it's not so much as to how many people use it
[12:31] <DaSkreech> It's how deep
[12:31] <DaSkreech>  if i have one person who uses MS Office cause they absolutlely NEED to
[12:31] <SlimG> maby a vote on the kubuntuforums: "OOo vs. koffice (in Kubuntu)" would give a clue on the current battlestatus between the office suits, then people might also comment on their likes and dislikes with both office suits
[12:31] <DaSkreech> that's an issue cause they have something they need to do in the line of work
[12:32] <DaSkreech> OO.o and Koffice should at least be able to display it even if they can't generate it
[12:32] <DaSkreech> SlimG: Start it up man :)
[12:32] <mhb> I agree with SlimG, let's ask the users first and if it's good enough for a large group let's bother the devs


[16:09] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu 19.10 (Eoan Ermine) End of Life reached on July 17 2020 @ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2020/07/17/ubuntu-19-10-eoan-ermine-end-of-life-reached-on-july-17-2020/ (by guiverc)


[01:46] <dazage> Hi there, I'd like to upgrade a non-essential of mine to 20.04 before released. My question is just how strongly inadvisable is that?
[01:49] <oerheks> as it is an LTS version, long support, sure you can upgrade and expect no huge issues.
[01:50] <dazage> Even if I'm upgrading a month or so before it's official release?
[01:51] <oerheks> sure, the feature freeze is in place. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FocalFossa/ReleaseSchedule
[01:52] <oerheks> the testing week is about to start.
[01:52] <dazage> oh wonderful, in that case I've got perfect timing. :-P
[01:53] <oerheks> Yes, that is where we are at
[01:53] <tomreyn> !ubuntu+1
[01:54] <oerheks> oops my bad :-P
[01:55] <dazage> splendid. If I have my debian correct, `sed -i.bak 's/bionic/focal/g' /etc/apt/sources.list` with an update&reboot should do the trick, correct?
[01:56] <oerheks> that is the debian way, please use  the release update tool with -d development, it does some more checks.
[02:02] <dazage> "You have to download a total of 373 M. This download will take about 47 minutes with a 1Mbit DSL connection and about 14 hours with a 56k modem."
[02:03] <dazage> Haha, seeing the 56k modem cracked me up. Good times.
[02:16] <sarnold> :)
[02:20] <dazage> aand we're live. Ubuntu Focal Fossa (Dev Branch) :-)
[02:21] <dazage> Anything I should keep in mind/do for when 20.04 releases?
[02:23] <sarnold> keep a careful eye on those apt upgrades to make sure it doesn't decide to remove something important to resolve a conflict :)
[02:24] <sarnold> I've been running it on my laptop for a while and it's certainly got more issues than 18.04
[02:24] <sarnold> don't hesitate to file bugs
[02:25] <dazage> Will do, thanks a ton oerheks and sarnold.
[02:27] <tomreyn> and ubottu!
[02:27] <sarnold> haha
[07:34] <lordievader> Good morning
[17:34] <Ussat> So, um...I assume we have a patch for this:  https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2020-1938
[17:39] <sdeziel> Ussat: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2020/CVE-2020-1938.html shows the packages as 'needs-triage'
[17:40] <Ussat> OK
[17:40] <Ussat> Thanks
[17:41] <Ussat> so, what means, what exactly ?
[17:42] <sdeziel> I'm not sure, would be best to ask directly in #ubuntu-hardened which is where the security team is
[19:51] <kiokoman> under esxi i have 2 ubuntu server running 5.3.0-40-generic if i run iperf3 from another machine (same subnet) server 1 say 238 Mbits/sec server 2 say  633 Mbits/sec both are vmxnet3 driver, any suggestion on how to troubleshoot this ?
[19:59] <ahasenack> are you using virtio for the nic on the slow server?
[19:59] <ahasenack> ah, you said both are using vmxnet3
[19:59] <ahasenack> I don't know then
[22:43] <teward> powersj: rbasak: FYI re 1865948 I think it's too late to consider this for Focal, as we are past FF.  Any objections to adding this to a discussion point post-Focal release as a consideration for G-series?
[22:44] <teward> s/FYI//
[22:44] <powersj> bug 1865948
[22:44]  * powersj needs a link :P
[22:44] <teward> powersj: blame irccloud derping and missing a word
[22:44] <teward> :P
[22:45] <teward> but I think its past FF so it's a little late to start adding new features even to the packaging in Ubuntu (it's also an extra delta NOT proposed yet in Debian)
[22:45] <teward> (though we are extremely diverged from Debian at this point heh)
[22:45] <powersj> agreed in general, but let me tie off with why the request has come in and what version he is targeting
[22:45] <teward> yep.
[22:46] <teward> I just dont want to start making package changes which only one or two people use (the data about who uses the stream module is not available just yet)
[22:46] <teward> hence the multiping ;)
[22:49] <teward> oh @powersj also they are suggesting changes to nginx.conf which affect all packages (nginx-common is a dep for all NGINX flavors in the repo) - which is why it's a larger discussion
[22:50] <teward> nginx-common is included for all current nginx-{core,full,light extras} installs
[22:57] <teward> powersj: dug into the build rules.  This change would break nginx-light in it's current state.  we would have to have the stream module a dependency for it.  It's currently only in full, extras, and core.  Light will error with an invalid directive in the config if stream is added as-is.
[22:58] <teward> so unless we ship multiple config versions based on the NGINX version installed it will break as is.  we need a larger discussion on whether to enable the stream module globally or not before we have that change
[22:58] <teward> as proposed, anyways.
[23:02] <teward> powersj: more data, it looks like this is almost HAProxy-esque functionality in NGINX now with TCP socket streams as well
[23:03] <teward> so it might be something we can enable for all versions but not for Focal.  Needs a discussion with the canonical team on their thoughts.
[23:03] <teward> (I am not on the Canonical server team xD)
[23:08] <powersj> teward, spoke to reporter and +1 on post-focal
[23:10] <teward> ok.  I will set up some kind of notepad on my thoughts on this - mostly because adding this config change will break nginx-light as is
[23:11] <teward> stream support isnt a default feature it's an optional one
[23:11] <teward> do we still have etherpad?
[23:11] <teward> I forget if we do...
[23:12] <powersj> I think we do, but don't know the link off hand
[23:15] <teward> ok.  I will do a brain dump on a blueprint...
[23:15] <teward> itll be huge but it will have my thoughts.  is there a Canonical server team group on LP I can set as reviewer?
[23:19] <teward> ... which is disabled >.>
[23:22] <powersj> teward, yes https://launchpad.net/~canonical-server
[23:47] <teward> powersj: rbasak: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ny2VtEsNlE  <-- in case you want to see what I've got so far.
[23:47] <teward> i've split this all into a running list of G-series considerations, including two changes to feature availability in the package I've made (one related to the requested 'stream' functon changes, and one that would remove the 'this breaks nginx-light' issue entirely)
[23:48] <teward> i'm going to go get food now.


[05:31] <Unit193> brainwash: readonly b PreparingForSleep = false;   Nope.  What wired/wireless device do you have?
[05:42] <Unit193> This count for anything?  Running hook /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/60_wpa_supplicant resume suspend:
[05:42] <Unit193> Failed to connect to wpa_supplicant - wpa_ctrl_open: No such file or directory
[05:42] <Unit193> /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/60_wpa_supplicant resume suspend: success.
[09:24] <slickymaster> morning all
[09:43] <brainwash> Unit193: I noticed this long entry long time ago, but I thought it was just a result of network manager still sleeping
[09:44] <brainwash> Unit193: and wired connections are affected too
[09:45] <brainwash> Unit193: on my laptop PreparingForSleep is still set to 'true' when nm does not awake, on my desktop pc it's rarely the case
[09:54] <elfy> good morning #xubuntu-devel
[09:57] <slickymaster> elfy: and a good morning to you
[09:59] <elfy> hi slickymaster
[10:04] <ochosi> morning all
[10:08] <ochosi> anyone interested in writing some docs?
[10:09] <slickymaster> ochosi: yeap, what's needed?
[10:10] <slickymaster> ochosi: sorry, good morning
[10:10] <ochosi> slickymaster: we're looking for ppl to help us with parole
[10:10] <ochosi> we just released 0.5.90 (on the way to 0.6)
[10:10] <ochosi> and we want this release to be the first that actually has *some* docs :)
[10:10] <elfy> :)
[10:11] <slickymaster> ochosi: well I'm finishing the translation of xubuntu-docs trusty series
[10:11] <ochosi> for an example of what we're looking for, check this: http://docs.xfce.org/apps/terminal/start
[10:11] <ochosi> this is where the docs will end up: http://docs.xfce.org/apps/parole/
[10:11] <ochosi> but we have a staging site where ppl can work
[10:12] <elfy> good lord ... you mean actually readable and usable ones :)
[10:12] <ochosi> (info on how to write docs if needed: http://docs.xfce.org/contribute/documentation)
[10:12] <ochosi> elfy: indeed :)
[10:13] <slickymaster> ochosi: I don't mind to take a stab at it
[10:13] <ochosi> so whoever wants to help needs to use v0.5.90 of parole, which you can get here: https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/xfce-4.12-daily
[10:14] <ochosi> as i see now, jjfrv8 has already started with the prefs on our staging site
[10:14] <ochosi> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=parole-docs
[10:14] <ochosi> jjfrv8: very nice work! thanks a bunch!
[10:14] <ochosi> so feel free to help him out a little
[10:15] <ochosi> and as soon as we're getting close to the 0.6 release, we'll review everything and move it over to the official docs site
[10:16] <elfy> if I can find time then I'm more than happy to help
[10:16] <slickymaster> ochosi: one question, you're using moin moin or docbook and mallard on the wiki?
[10:16] <ochosi> slickymaster: it's dokuwiki
[10:16] <ochosi> upstream xfce decided to use online documentation in that form
[10:17] <ochosi> because the learning curve for docbook or mallard was kinda stopping ppl from contributing
[10:17] <ochosi> even if wiki's are more messy, more contributors/information might be a good thing
[10:17] <ochosi> so far i think their decision was fine
[10:18] <slickymaster> ochosi: so the idea is to pick up on what jjfrv8 already made?
[10:18] <ochosi> slickymaster: yes, you can start e.g. with command-line options and describe those
[10:19] <ochosi> feel free to check what he wrote in the prefs to keep things coherent
[10:19] <ochosi> and if you can, get in touch with him and see what his plans are
[10:19] <ochosi> just so that you guys don't do double the work or anything
[10:20] <slickymaster> ochosi: ok, will do. Do I have to submit any account registration for xfce wiki? If yes, where and how?
[10:20] <ochosi> slickymaster: you can only work on the staging site. i have an admin-account for docs.xfce.org so I'll move all the content over after it was reviewed
[10:22] <slickymaster> ochosi: ok. but when you say staging site you're referring to http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=parole-docs, right?
[10:22] <ochosi> yup
[10:22] <ochosi> it works the same way as the official dokuwiki
[10:22] <ochosi> we added all the necessary pluguins
[10:22] <ochosi> plugins
[10:22] <ochosi> (penguins + plugins = pluguins)
[10:23] <ochosi> so apart from moving the screenshots, it'll be simple copy-paste
[10:23] <slickymaster> ochosi: :). Just one thing, I'm getting a read only page, there
[10:23] <ochosi> yeah, i guess you need to register :)
[10:24] <ochosi> but afaik no admin-approval is necessary (but it's bluesabre's wiki, so i wouldn't know ;))
[10:26] <slickymaster> ochosi: I'll try to register and if needed I'll ping bluesabre on it
[10:26] <ochosi> great, thanks
[10:26] <elfy> I can open usage (for example) to the edit page here
[10:27] <slickymaster> elfy: it could be that, since I'm getting "This page is currently locked for editing by another user. You have to wait until this user finishes editing or the lock expires."
[10:28] <elfy> try now then
[10:28] <slickymaster> elfy: :) I was going to ask you just that. You beat me to it
[10:29] <slickymaster> elfy: nops, still getting the same message
[10:29] <elfy> slickymaster: ok now?
[10:30] <slickymaster> elfy: no, on each of them
[10:30] <slickymaster> elfy: it can be that you have super powers and I don't ;)
[10:31] <slickymaster> elfy: I'll try to register and see if afterwards manage to access it with write permissions
[10:31] <elfy> I love super powers - especially ones you're not aware of :)
[10:32] <elfy> he could possibly have set it up for xubuntu-team or something maybe
[10:32] <slickymaster> elfy: yeah, I was thinking of that, when I mentioned super powers :)
[10:33] <ochosi> :)
[10:34] <elfy> if I don't do anything else with it I will at least check it for grammar/spelling/readability
[10:34] <slickymaster> elfy: I such an idiot. I also do have super powers. I was blocking the execution of javascript on the page (it's default on my browser)
[10:34] <slickymaster> I am
[10:35] <elfy> ahah :)
[10:36] <brainwash> ochosi: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L1302
[10:36] <slickymaster> ochosi: I'm going to install v0.5.90 of parole and start to work on it
[10:36] <ochosi> slickymaster: great! thanks
[10:37] <ochosi> brainwash: gotta go fetch some lunch, bbiab
[10:37] <brainwash> ochosi: ok
[10:38] <slickymaster> ochosi: np, It will be a pleasure. And since I'm going to work side by side with elfy, I'll be able to secretly learn about his super powers
[10:38] <elfy> lol
[10:39] <ochosi> :}
[10:39] <ochosi> ->
[10:39] <brainwash> ochosi: I'm checking the source code, because I don't think a solution with feh (simply reapply the root background) will be accepted
[10:40] <brainwash> ochosi: to prevent the grey background flicker after login
[10:44] <brainwash> it's just a small change, but I like it and it improves the desktop experience
[11:12] <ochosi> brainwash: i agree
[11:12] <ochosi> if it's a small change in how we paint the background in the greeter and there are no backdraws to it, then that'd be the ideal scenario
[11:16] <slickymaster> ochosi: do you know if ppa:smd-seandavis/xfce-4.12-daily is compliant with trusty?
[11:19] <elfy> it's not
[11:20] <ochosi> not yet
[11:20] <slickymaster> elfy: thanks. that means that I'll have to setup a new VM :P
[11:20] <ochosi> you can check easily in the ppa's settings
[11:21] <slickymaster> ochosi: yes, I'm noticing it
[11:21] <elfy> slickymaster: same :)
[11:22]  * slickymaster already doing it
[11:23]  * ochosi is living on the edge with tons of stuff directly from git...
[11:23] <elfy> I'm living in the edge too ;)
[11:24]  * slickymaster thinks that with elfy it comes with the territory... since he is kind of a super being
[11:25] <ochosi> brainwash:
[11:26] <ochosi> brainwash: oops. i meant to say: if you want you can check how feh sets the background and simply add that to the call in the greeter. the greeter itself is farely easy to compile/install, just be sure to use --prefix=/usr
[11:35] <elfy> ochosi: the parole I just got from sean's ppa is v0.6.0 not 0.5.90
[11:35] <ochosi> well that's just a minor version
[11:35] <ochosi> -numbering-glitch
[11:35] <ochosi> 0.6 hasn't seen a release yet, so no worries ;)
[11:35] <elfy> ok :)
[11:36] <elfy> looks good :)
[11:36] <elfy> until you try to load plugins ...
[11:40] <ochosi> yeah, that's currently broken in the PPA
[11:40] <ochosi> we still don't know why, really
[11:40] <elfy> k - just checking :)
[11:41] <ochosi> sure, please report any bugs you find
[11:41] <elfy> yep :)
[11:43] <slickymaster> elfy: good to know that ahead. I'll just be able to get everything ready after lunch
[12:54] <brainwash> elfy: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2182546&p=12823528
[12:54] <brainwash> bug 1221809
[12:55] <brainwash> I cannot access my old forum account anymore after the database "hack" incident
[12:56] <elfy> brainwash: I'm not having to do with the forum for a while but if you want help getting into your forum account I'll do that in a pm with you :)
[12:56]  * elfy has a break from it :)
[12:57] <brainwash> why that? just temporary because of the flood of new "upgrade to 13.10 failed!" threads?
[12:58] <elfy> nah :)
[12:58] <elfy> but if you want help we can do it now
[13:00] <brainwash> well, here's the account http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=1579891, don't have access to the email address anymore, so the account is dead right now
[14:06] <forestpiskie> exit
[14:06] <elfy> I only wish
[16:02] <slickymaster> elfy: you mentioned early this morning that after adding sean's PPA you ended up with parole v0.6.0. I've just added said PPA and ended up with 0.5.90. Go figure that out.
[16:04] <slickymaster> ochosi: Regarding Parole v0.5.90, where is the ideal place to report any bug? LP or Xfce bugzilla?
[18:17] <gdos> !bug 1243839
[18:17] <gdos> !bug 1243859
[18:22] <genii> Looks possibly related, yes
[18:25] <gdos> genii: wouldn't it be considered a security issue if neither dhelp NOR dwww read files from /usr/share/doc ?
[18:27] <genii> I don't think anything in /usr/share/doc could really be considered a security issue
[18:28] <gdos> reading from those directories doesn't open up the rest of the system which makes me wonder if its a chmod issue?
[18:32] <gdos> nope. just checked. permissions on all affected folders are what i expected them to be.
[18:40] <Pwnna> if i want to compile my own xfwm and run that, how do i go approach? any docs?
[18:40] <Pwnna> i just don't wanna mess up my settings and what not.
[18:41] <Pwnna> so slightly cautious to start
[18:42] <Pwnna> i have ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce-4.12
[18:51] <Pwnna> how do you guys build these things?
[19:01] <gdos> Pwnna: try #xfce or #xfwm (can't remember which)
[19:02] <Pwnna> it's all good now. i htink :)
[19:02] <Pwnna> who maintains that ppa?
[19:02] <Pwnna> there's a new version of xfwm :P
[19:10] <Pwnna> what's the prefix i have to use?
[20:43] <Noskcaj> Is there any reason why @xubuntu email addresses aren't available?
[20:44] <knome> Noskcaj, that hasn't been set up.
[20:49] <Noskcaj> knome, Are there any plans to ever make them? I would be nice to have them, even if it's just PR purposes
[20:50] <knome> i remember that briefly discussed at some point, but i don't think it's a gamekiller if we don't have them
[20:50] <knome> i also don't know about canonical's policies; if setting up such is possible (any more) or not
[20:52] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:23] <Noskcaj> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/4.10.1-3/+merge/192405
[21:47] <slickymaster> good night all
[22:56] <brainwash> can we please increase the importance of bug 1206739 to high and release an updated package with ali1234's patch?
[23:00] <skellat> brainwash: In what way do you want an updated package?  Stable Release Update?  New version for Trusty?
[23:01] <brainwash> package for saucy including the patch
[23:01] <ali1234> i think this bug is worthy of SRU personally
[23:02] <ali1234> it can cause data loss if you, say, launch open office from the terminal (even with &) and then write your 100 page document, and then accidentally open the encoding menu on *any* terminal window, it will kill open office
[23:02] <skellat> ali1234 brainwash: You guys understand an SRU requires covering not just 13.10 but also 13.04, 12.10, and 12.04 to ensure a consistent upgrade path?
[23:02] <brainwash> it only affects 13.10
[23:02] <brainwash> and ofc 14.04
[23:02] <ali1234> well it's broken in the older versions too
[23:03] <ali1234> the patch doesn't affect functionality - it replaces a broken, memory leaking implementation with one taken directly from the reference manual
[23:03] <brainwash> older versions don't ship with gtk3.8
[23:03] <ali1234> yeah but the code still sucks
[23:03] <brainwash> we don't care about older releases :P
[23:04] <skellat> brainwash: SRU procedure says we must if they're still supported
[23:04] <ali1234> i will backport the patch to older packages in the extremely unlikely event it is not compatible
[23:04] <skellat> Does the patch meet these guidelines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
[23:04] <brainwash> mmh, so complicated
[23:04] <skellat> ?
[23:04] <ali1234> well, see above
[23:05] <ali1234> if you consider that a realistic circumstance, then yes
[23:05] <ali1234> if you open the encoding menu on any xfce4-terminal window, it kills all open terminal windows and all processes launched by them
[23:06] <brainwash> I'm not familiar with the SRU procedure, I just know that if we release broken software, we should fix it as soon as possible
[23:06] <skellat> ali1234: That would be a realistic circumstance that causes direct loss of user data since it kills processes
[23:07] <brainwash> therefore the importance level should be raised
[23:07] <skellat> Next step in the decision tree: Is the issue fixed in the newest version in Trusty's archive?
[23:08] <skellat> Or is the version in Trusty's archive the same as that in Saucy at the moment?
[23:09] <skellat> (We can skip that since proposed is still locked up)
[23:09] <brainwash> appears to be the same, the patch hasn't been accepted upstream yet (everything is going so slow)
[23:10] <skellat> brainwash: I'm pulling up upstream's bug tracker really quick
[23:12] <skellat> Okay, all upstream shows is that people are CC'ing the bug
[23:12] <skellat> ali1234: Are you prepared to make a local build of a .deb file for xfce4-terminal and then prepare a debdiff for your local version against what is in the archive for 13.10?
[23:13] <ali1234> skellat: yes, but it won't happen until next week, and i might need some handholding with things like writing correct changelog entries and so on
[23:13] <skellat> Well, that buys us time to see who we can round up
[23:14] <skellat> The first step would be: dget -x http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xfce4-terminal/xfce4-terminal_0.6.2-3ubuntu1.dsc
[23:15] <skellat> And then once that unpacked, go from there patching and repacking
[23:16] <skellat> Once that's repacked and the debdiff you would end up following this protocol: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
[23:17] <skellat> micahg can probably correct me on a few steps but that's the overview
[23:18] <ali1234> what is 0.6.2?
[23:18] <ali1234> aren't we on 4.10.1?
[23:19] <skellat> ali1234: It would be the individual component's version number.  The suite's overall version number is 4.10.1.
[23:20] <ali1234> oh yeah, i'm getting mixed up with panel, which really does have that version number
[23:21] <ali1234> the other thing about this is that my patch actually fixes two bugs
[23:21] <skellat> Cool
[23:21] <ali1234> the crash and the memory leak are mostly unrelated
[23:22] <skellat> ali1234: Read the whole SRU wiki page
[23:22] <skellat> It explains everything
[23:23] <ali1234> ok, bt the memory leak probably isn't SRU worthy as it is harmless... so does it get a pass just because we're going to update it anyway?
[23:29] <skellat> ali1234: That'll be up to the reviewer & uploader to determine
[23:38] <ali1234> skellat: is this right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6292034/
[23:39] <ali1234> i don't know what to do with the "saucy" line etc
[23:40] <skellat> dch -i
[23:41] <ali1234> i did dpkg-source --commit
[23:41] <skellat> Oooh
[23:41] <skellat> No
[23:41] <skellat> In the tree you want to do dch -i
[23:41] <skellat> For the repack, dpkg-buildpackage
[23:42] <ali1234> how does the patch get saved then?
[23:43] <skellat> I looked again
[23:43] <skellat> I'm wrong
[23:43] <skellat> You're right
[23:44] <ali1234> so dpkg-source --commit and then dch -i? or the other way around seems to make more sense as --commit takes the last changelog entry
[23:44] <skellat> Ditch the dch -i bit
[23:44] <skellat> I was wrong
[23:45] <skellat> Next would be dpkg-buildpackage
[23:47] <skellat> You have to be able to install it and make sure it works
[23:48] <ali1234> of course
[23:48] <ali1234> i'll stick it in my ppa too
[23:49] <skellat> For the debdiff it would be if memory serves: debdiff http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xfce4-terminal/xfce4-terminal_0.6.2-3ubuntu1.dsc [local .dsc file that dpkg-source --commit just messed with] > patch.diff
[23:50] <skellat> And then filing the bug as specified here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
[23:51] <skellat> Oh
[23:51] <skellat> The changelog should have had (LP: #1206739) after your entry so that it marks in the system Fix Committed/Fix Released
[23:52] <ali1234> but you said not to edit the changelog ..........
[23:52] <ali1234> y'know, this could be a lot easier
[23:53] <ali1234> can you just show me a package where this has been done, and i'll just do whatever they did?
[23:55] <ali1234> hmm i can't build the package because i don't have libxfce4ui-1 installed from a package (it's built locally)


[06:18] <mlankhorst> bryceh/raof: Any luck in breaking things? It was meant for testing the renamed stack so no point in keeping it up publicly if it's not being broken ;)
[06:18] <tjaalton> yesterday was the memorial day in the US, so bryce at least was doing something more fun I hope :)
[06:19] <mlankhorst> ah kk
[06:19] <RAOF> Ah, that's why no one was around?
[06:20] <mlankhorst> i guess so, it was some holiday in netherlands too but it was too warm so i just worked and will probably work less for the rest of the week to compensate :P
[06:21] <tjaalton> getting chilly up here :/
[06:22] <mlankhorst> i wanted to bike 45 km, but it was too hot so some other time this week I will :)
[06:25] <tjaalton> i'm looking for a new bike, but can't decide between a cyclocross or a roadrace model :)
[06:25] <tjaalton> should probably just go and try them out
[06:26] <bryceh> yes, this weekend went to the Oregon beach near Astoria with bdmurray, kees, slangasek & families and drank whiskey, played House on Haunted Hill, Small World, other assorted games.  Oh and built a Star Wars puzzle.  And watched bdmurray's boys fish and row around on the lake.
[06:26] <bryceh> whatever work that got done was accidental :-)
[06:27] <tjaalton> i saw some emails by slangasek ;)
[06:27] <bryceh> he did sneak off with his laptop a few times
[06:29] <bryceh> fun weekend though in any case.  I think I won 80% of the games.  :-)
[06:30] <bryceh> tjaalton, btw I did chat with slangasek a bit about the debian versioning on the xorg packages for the lts
[06:31] <mlankhorst> bryceh: what games
[06:31] <tjaalton> bryceh: re games; you're a pro ;)
[06:32] <tjaalton> cullaby lake?
[06:32] <bryceh> he agreed that while the minor versioning issue by debian seems valid, since we've not needed to use it so far, it's something we can probably safely ignore for our purposes.
[06:32] <tjaalton> yeah
[06:32] <tjaalton> we'll cut corners anyway
[06:34] <tjaalton> also, we can minimize the backported list of drivers to the ones we care, and which get new hw support (video; ati, intel, nouveau, maybe openchrome. input; evdev, synaptics, wacom..)
[06:34] <mlankhorst> is this for lts backports?
[06:34] <tjaalton> although, if the .2 install media will have only the backported set it won't work
[06:35] <mlankhorst> tjaalton: It's less work to do all the drivers than only some specific drivers
[06:36] <tjaalton> mlankhorst: ok then :)
[06:37] <tjaalton> and it's probably true
[06:37] <mlankhorst> it is true, most drivers run flawlessly through the rename script
[06:37] <mlankhorst> special casing in xserver-xorg-video-all and input-all is more complex
[06:37] <tjaalton> bryceh: btw, are you into scifi strategy games? there's a new (finnish) game called Eclipse.. I know the artist :)
[06:38] <mlankhorst> if you've seen the rules of most drivers, they're so simple it incurs no extra cost
[06:38] <tjaalton> yep
[06:38] <RAOF> tjaalton: Has it won the Kennerspiel des Jahres yet? :)
[06:39] <RAOF> This is basically my threshold for consideration.
[06:39] <tjaalton> RAOF: hehe, don't think it has done that yet
[06:40] <tjaalton> but the ratings are good http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse
[06:40] <mlankhorst> anyhow, i guess ill try to see if i can break the stack one more time then get some work done :)
[06:41] <tjaalton> (looks like it's in stock now.. should probably get it though I've noone to play it with :)
[06:46] <bryceh> "cullaby lake" - yes, our house had a boat landing on it, the kids went out in canoes and paddle boats on it fishing
[06:46] <bryceh> scifi strategy games - totally into that.  will have to check out eclipse
[06:46] <tjaalton> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4LevjuhYqc&feature=player_embedded
[06:47] <tjaalton> "thematic rank: 1"
[06:47] <bryceh> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse
[06:48] <tjaalton> yep
[06:51] <bryceh> what games - small world (awesome! highly recommended).  Betrayal at House on the Hill - fun.  Impossible Machine, Word on the Street, Ticket to Ride: Europe, Bohnanza, Gardens of Alhambra.  Others also played Apples to Apples, Settlers of Catan, Guillotine, Ricochet Robots.
[06:55] <bryceh> 900 pieces!!
[07:05] <tjaalton> yeah it has a few components
[07:52] <mlankhorst> bryceh/raof: Seems I can install xserver-xorg-dev or xserver-xorg-dev-lts-backport-quantal with the renamed stack, is this a feature or a bug? :P
[07:52] <RAOF> mlankhorst: I think that's indicative of a bug? Those two packages should have file conflicts?
[07:52] <mlankhorst> RAOF: i cant install it at the same time
[07:52] <RAOF> Oh, no. You can install one or the other? Yeah, that should be ok.
[07:53] <mlankhorst> i can just install the old one atop the new stack
[07:53] <RAOF> I don't think that's a problem.
[07:53] <RAOF> It's possibly even a feature.
[07:54] <mlankhorst> probably
[08:01] <mlankhorst> but makes it annoying if anything depends on xorg-dev since it will prefer to pick the unrenamed one by default
[08:04] <mlankhorst> oh, seems libxatracker and libglu are not pulled in by default..
[08:04] <RAOF> By what?
[08:05] <RAOF> Only the vmware DDX depends on xatracker, right?
[08:05] <mlankhorst> if i switch stacks they're happy to stay unrenamed
[08:05] <jcristau> libGLU hasn't changed in like 10 years
[08:06] <RAOF> Has that been split out of mesa yet?
[08:06] <mlankhorst> not sure
[08:06] <jcristau> i think not
[08:06] <mlankhorst> glw was
[08:07] <mlankhorst> but if vmware depends on xatracker, hmm..
[08:07] <mlankhorst> yeah libxatracker1
[08:08] <mlankhorst> do we care enough to force it to depend on the renamed version?
[08:08] <RAOF> libxatracker is built from mesa, right?
[08:08] <RAOF> I think we do care.
[08:08] <mlankhorst> ok
[08:09] <mlankhorst> in that case I'll update the mapping file :)
[08:09] <mlankhorst> hopefully that will fix shlibs depends automatically, else I'll add a vmware specific hack
[08:20] <mlankhorst> oh right, it would fix things
[09:16] <mlankhorst> ok xserver-xorg-lts-backport-quantal seems to work, it pulls in everything except libglu-mesa1, which we may or may not care about :)
[09:23]  * RAOF is firmly in the "not care" group
[09:23] <mlankhorst> RAOF: yeah, but it might be useful for the cd, shrug.
[09:24] <mlankhorst> should I try to see if I can make an image with all the non-renamed packages removed?
[09:25] <RAOF> That'd be a good test.
[09:29] <mlankhorst> hm how is the livecd usually mastered? the documentation i find only mentions modify existing images
[09:45] <RAOF> mlankhorst: I have no idea; cjwatson or pitti would be the best candidates, I think.
[09:51] <mlankhorst> Otherwise I won't bother, seems it ought to work because I can install the renamed x stack and restart lightdm with it. I bet it's just copying root to a new place
[09:56] <mlankhorst> which would mean a boot test would be just as much validation :)
[10:36] <mlankhorst> do we care about the downgrade path? eg remove quantal after install
[10:48] <mlankhorst> the replaces make those fun
[10:56] <mlankhorst> cant really think of an easy way to do it safely, even
[11:01] <RAOF> We generally do not support package downgrades; I don't think it's tremendously important to support it here.
[11:05] <mlankhorst> ok good
[11:05] <mlankhorst> else you can very easily end up with a broken system due to replaces
[11:08] <Azelphur> I'm having an issue with wine, nvidia and 64bit, I spoke to the wine people and they say I don't have the 32bit compatibility libs for my driver, which is causing wine to fall back to using an ancient OpenGL version,  yet I have ia32-libs installed. Any ideas?
[11:17] <RAOF> Azelphur: Which driver? nouveau or nvidia-current?
[11:17] <Azelphur> nvidia-current (x-swat)
[11:17] <Azelphur> I found a wine forum post on the subject, http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=15537
[11:17] <RAOF> That ships the 32bit libs itself; ia32-libs is not necessary.
[11:17] <RAOF> (for libGL; the rest of ia32-libs is needed, unless you're on Precise, where multiarch works)
[11:18] <Azelphur> I'm on precise
[11:19] <RAOF> As you see on the bug, it's not actually a driver problem.
[11:20] <Azelphur> ah, I'm still reading through it all trying to figure it out
[11:20] <RAOF> Looks like it's common-or-garden wine bug.
[11:20] <Azelphur> haha, the wine thread says it's a ubuntu bug xD
[11:21] <RAOF> It also applies to intel (I see it, although it doesn't affect anything I actually use).
[11:21] <Azelphur> \o/
[11:22] <Azelphur> YAY, Bug report on launchpad workaround works
[11:23] <Azelphur> echo 0|sudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/yama/ptrace_scope <-- this is what fixes my issues \o/
[11:23] <Azelphur> looks like scott richie is working on that issue, so all good, :)
[11:28] <RAOF> Seriously, that's it?
[11:28] <Azelphur> yes, it causes CS:GO to crash on startup for me
[11:28] <Azelphur> wine is still complaining about GL_VERSION stuff not working, but at least my game works now :D
[11:28] <RAOF> What crazy reason does wine have to ptrace a non-child to determine GL capabilities?
[11:29] <Azelphur> no, I apparently have two separate issues that I thought were connected
[11:29] <RAOF> Ah.
[11:29] <Azelphur> CS:GO wouldn't start, I assumed because of wine complaining about OpenGL issues
[11:29] <Azelphur> but CS:GO turned out to not start because of that
[11:29] <Azelphur> I still have the opengl issue, but at least my game works now :)
[11:29] <RAOF> In which case I exclaim: what crazy reason do they have for ptracing a non-child process :)
[11:30] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[11:30] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/36P7d3KU is wines complaints about my OpenGL, should you be interested :)
[14:27] <mlankhorst> sforshee: it arrived :)
[14:28] <sforshee> mlankhorst, that was fast
[14:28] <sforshee> enjoy :)
[19:05] <bryceh> mlankhorst, lts upgrade successful (although found a couple typos(?) in your directions
[19:07] <mlankhorst> ..¿
[19:11] <bryceh> mlankhorst, posted to list
[19:12] <mlankhorst> oh woops typo :P


[01:19] <ubotu> New bug: #172347 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "ATI Radeon X600 dual head with Gutsy" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172347
[01:21] <ubotu> New bug: #164972 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "upgrade feisty gutsy ati radeon 9200 problem" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164972
[01:27] <ubotu> New bug: #163249 in suse (main) "HIS Radeon X1950Pro 512Mb AGP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163249
[03:06] <ubotu> New bug: #173177 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "intel video driver produces visual corruption on 945GM chipset" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173177
[03:59] <bryce> tjaalton: you around?
[03:59] <bryce> I'm pondering names for a git repository for the script tormod and I were working on
[04:00] <bryce> ubuntu-x-dev-tools comes to mind, but sounds like tormod wants to avoid making them too ubuntu-specific
[04:00] <bryce> which would suggest maybe just x-dev-tools?  or debian-x-dev-tools?  or...
[04:01] <bryce> debian-x-pkg-tools?
[04:02] <bryce> xorg-pkg-tools?
[17:50] <ubotu> New bug: #173130 in xorg (main) "edubuntu hardy 64bit live cd issues" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173130
[20:00] <ubotu> New bug: #173308 in xorg (main) "Difficulty accessing "Appearance Preferences" tabs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173308
[21:45] <ubotu> New bug: #173329 in xorg (main) "xorg/x fails to start on Acer 3000 [hardy alpha1 liveCD]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173329
[23:17] <imbrandon> bryce: if i was to prepare a diff for xorg-server packaing ( no source changes ) what would be your prefered format ? diff -Nur ? debdiff ? something else ? to be attached to a/the bug report
[23:18] <bryce> either debdiff, or diff -Nurp would be fine
[23:18] <imbrandon> kk cool-i-o
[23:20] <imbrandon> its just some simple package aditions to generate xserver-xvesa and xserver-xfbdev packages ( binarys alreadyy built durring compile but we dont have .installs + man pages etc for those )
[23:21] <imbrandon> there is an open bug on LP for it, i'll complete them and attach it there