[00:18] <mneptok> mmm .... turkey.
[00:19] <LjL> diamond5pam spammed #ubuntu for a long time (except he was muted by the bots) then went on to spam #kubuntu when i banned him from #ubuntu
[00:21] <LjL> he flooded #ubuntu for some 5 minutes... wow.
[00:22] <mneptok> i'm not seeing that
[00:22] <mneptok> he /join'ed at :13 past amd was muted ~2m later
[00:22] <LjL> mneptok: of course not, the floodbot muted him after the first 6 lines
[00:22] <LjL> mneptok: but he *was* still going on with that when i got +o and banned him
[00:23] <LjL> now [01:22:45] --> co_gHokiLzZ_____ has joined this channel (n=stmikdp@<IP_ADDRESS>).
[00:23] <LjL> nice nickname huh
[00:42] <nalioth> LjL: poke a staffer for anything5pam, please
[00:42] <LjL> ok
[00:45] <nalioth> that is an unrepentent recidivist
[00:45] <nalioth> same guy who copies all of "War and Peace" or the whole of the GPL and pastes them into places
[00:46] <LjL> had something to do with Alice this time apparently
[00:50] <nalioth> --in wonderland, perhaps?
[00:52] <LjL> i couldn't say that
[00:54]  * nalioth likes to read, but hates spam
[01:10] <jdong> it was the best of worlds...
[02:08] <LjL> nalioth, see Gradies in #ubuntu
[02:08] <LjL> and #gentoo
[02:08] <nalioth> klined
[02:08] <LjL> seen it
[02:08]  * nalioth has to get spooled up
[02:08] <nalioth> when y'all kickban 'em, i have to type out their nicks
[02:09] <LjL> nalioth: meh... next time i'll mute without kicking, ok :P
[03:00] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[03:00] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[04:17] <Jack_Sparrow> mneptok: FYI hammer already got banned once today, and he is running through that one proxy Ljl set up..
[04:22] <mneptok> Jack_Sparrow: beat me to it
[04:22] <Jack_Sparrow> :)
[04:22] <Jack_Sparrow> Zero tolerance
[04:22] <mneptok> need a tighter ban, though
[04:22] <Jack_Sparrow> please adjust it
[04:23] <Jack_Sparrow> or tell me how
[04:23] <mneptok> i banned by host
[04:23] <mneptok> all he would have to do is change nicks and he could avoid that nick ban
[04:23] <Jack_Sparrow> great thanks
[04:23] <mneptok> np np
[04:24] <Jack_Sparrow> My quick button needs work
[08:20] <ubotu> badkitty called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[08:35] <jussi01> Madpilot: good morning, you have access in #ubuntu?
[08:35] <Madpilot> jussi01, yes, I do.   Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Mez, LjL, elkbuntu, imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, ompaul, Madpilot, Seveas, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici or Jack_Sparrow!
[14:26] <ubotu> Mez called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ("alpaco" is around and causing trouble, keep eyes peeled)
[14:26] <Pici> Mez: again?
[14:26] <Mez> Pici, yeah - I just had to ban from -uk
[14:27] <Pici> Mez: we have a ident and realname ban on him for #ubuntu
[14:27]  * Dave2 is keeping an eye on him.
[14:27] <Mez> I know - I set them
[14:27] <Mez> Dave2, can you just kline him:
[14:27] <Mez> ?
[14:28] <Dave2> I will if he does it again anywhere else.
[14:28] <Mez> * Bans matching<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Al Paco)
[14:28] <Mez> *<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:28] <Mez> * Al?Paco
[14:28] <Mez> Dave2, he's done it in plenty of places
[14:28] <Dave2> but not that I personally have seen
[14:28] <Mez> he's done it 4 or 5 times in #u - hence why I added the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:28] <Mez> Dave2, do you have access to the bantracker ?
[14:29] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-irc, erUSUL said: !addingfs is <reply>If you are adding space to your Ubuntu installation mounting a newly created unix filesystem (ext3, xfs, jfs, etc) you can not set permissions (read writte etc) fs wide like you do when mounting fs that do not support unix permissions (vfat, ntfs, hfs, etc) with mount options like guid, uid and umask. Make directories inside the new file system and tweak the permissions of that folders to allow normal use
[14:29] <Dave2> probably not - but it's still something I'd want to see occurring personally, and from the looks of things, I can't see it being too long until it does happen again
[14:29] <Mez> Dave2, actually, it's open to all
[14:29] <Mez> https://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/bans.cgi?query=%40213.217&kicks=on&oldbans=on&bans=on&oldmutes=on&mutes=on
[14:29] <Pici> Mez: it was re-opened? since when?
[14:30] <Pici> Mez: I tried it this weekend and it wouldnt work
[14:30] <Mez> Pici, I didn't know it was closed?
[14:30] <Pici> Mez: Its still closed if you dont btlogin
[14:30] <Mez> I knew it was opened a long time ago...
[14:30] <Mez> ah, ok
[14:30] <Mez> I thought btlogin just gave you edit perms
[14:30] <Pici> It used to just do that.
[14:31] <Mez> hmmles..
[14:31] <Mez> looks like some bans from -ir too
[14:32] <Mez> btlogin uses LP right?
[14:32] <PriceChild> no
[14:32] <PriceChild> well... "no"
[14:33] <Mez> ah, I was just wondering how to find out it Dave2 was on it
[14:33] <PriceChild> its closed to anonymous users because of server load
[14:33] <PriceChild> i'm sure sev would give him access if he requested it
[14:33] <Mez> PriceChild, I'm surprised he hasnt got it already
[14:33] <Mez> erUSUL, can we help ?
[14:34] <erUSUL> Mez: just wanted to know if the factoid was added rejected edited ...
[14:34] <jrib> erUSUL: is there a wiki page about the issue?
[14:34] <erUSUL> jrib: no that i could find in 30 seconds
[14:35] <erUSUL> but i had the same concern ;) 15:17 < erUSUL> Pici: ok; i will work something out but i'm afraid it will end up a large one... maybe a wiki page is better?
[14:36] <Pici> I suggested that he submit the factoid and we'd take a look from there.
[14:36] <erUSUL> also forgot to point out that mount point permissions have no effect on the permissions of the mounted fs
[14:36] <jrib> maybe the !permissions wiki is a good place?
[14:36] <erUSUL> that's a common missconception too
[14:38] <jrib> or create a new wiki page about mounting extra partitions, tell users to see the !permissions wiki page for filesystems that support it or !ntfs/!vfat wiki pages for others.  There's no fstab wiki page so it could talk about that too
[14:38] <jrib> !diskmounter
[14:38] <ubotu> To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions - For write access, see /msg ubotu NTFS-3g or /msg ubotu FUSE
[14:39] <jrib> on second thought, that's the page to mention it
[14:40] <erUSUL> jrib: what page? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions this?
[14:41] <jrib> yeah, the "Editing Ubuntu's filesystem table" section talks about permissions with mount options
[14:41] <jrib> but the page never mentions what to do with ext3 and friends
[14:41] <erUSUL> but it is pretty windows/MacOs centric the script is for windows patitions only
[14:42] <erUSUL> The wiki page i mean
[14:42] <jrib> That's true, but the title suggests it shouldn't be
[14:44] <erUSUL> jrib: it would mean a mayor rework of the page structure imho as all revolve around vfat/ntfs as it stands
[14:44] <jrib> k, fair enough
[14:46] <erUSUL> jrib: or we can add it at the end of the page as an afterthought (you know "minimal effort law") XD
[14:46] <jrib> addingfs is <reply>If you are adding space to your Ubuntu installation mounting a newly created unix filesystem (ext3, xfs, jfs, etc) you can not set permissions (read write etc) fs wide like you do when mounting fs that do not support unix permissions (vfat, ntfs, hfs, etc).  See !permissions
[14:46] <jrib> edits?
[14:48] <Mez> Dave2, he's also been causing trouble in #ubuntu-ir
[14:48] <Mez> I've given them info on a ban to match him well
[14:48] <erUSUL> See !permissions covers the part about how to make normal users use the new space added
[14:48] <Tm_T> hi kids
[14:48] <Pici> Hi!
[14:48] <Tm_T> Mez: you pinged me some week(?) ago?
[14:48] <erUSUL> jrib: ?
[14:49] <jrib> Though I kind of dislike that !permissions links to a page on FHS that links you to the permissions page
[14:49] <Mez> Tm_T, lol - was it you who did the emulator site?
[14:49] <jrib> erUSUL: yeah, that seems good to me
[14:49] <Tm_T> Mez: emulator site? (apparently not me)
[14:50] <Mez> musta been Tonio then
[14:50] <Tm_T> prolly
[14:50] <erUSUL> jrib: well is ok to me thanks!
[14:51] <Mez> Tm_T, sorry - I get you two mixed up
[14:52] <jrib> !addingfs is <reply>If you are adding space to your Ubuntu installation mounting a newly created unix filesystem (ext3, xfs, jfs, etc) you can not set permissions (read, write, etc) filesystem-wide like you do when mounting filesystems that do not support unix permissions (vfat, ntfs, hfs, etc).  See !permissions
[14:52] <ubotu> I'll remember that, jrib
[14:52] <jrib> thanks erUSUL
[14:57] <erUSUL> jrib: no problem ;) bye i leave you, mighty ones XD, alone
[14:58] <Tm_T> Mez: no prob
[14:58] <jrib> !addingfs is <reply>If you are adding space to your Ubuntu installation mounting a newly created unix filesystem (ext3, xfs, jfs, etc) you can not set permissions (read, write, etc) filesystem-wide like you do when mounting filesystems that do not support unix permissions (vfat, ntfs, hfs, etc).  See !permissions and !fstab
[14:58] <ubotu> But addingfs already means something else!
[14:58] <jrib> !no addingfs is <reply>If you are adding space to your Ubuntu installation mounting a newly created unix filesystem (ext3, xfs, jfs, etc) you can not set permissions (read, write, etc) filesystem-wide like you do when mounting filesystems that do not support unix permissions (vfat, ntfs, hfs, etc).  See !permissions and !fstab
[14:58] <ubotu> I'll remember that jrib
[15:03] <popey> !info parallels
[15:03] <ubotu> Package parallels does not exist in gutsy
[15:03] <popey> ^^ its in the canonical partner repo - does ubotu not know about that?
[15:03] <popey> should it? :)
[15:03] <jrib> bug :)
[15:35] <Mez> @list plugins
[15:36] <Mez> @list
[15:36] <ubotu> Admin, Bantracker, Bugtracker, Channel, Config, Encyclopedia, Filter, FreenodeAuth, Lart, Math, Mess, Misc, Owner, Services, User, and Webcal
[15:36] <Mez> @list Bugtracker
[15:36] <ubotu> add, list, remove, and rename
[15:36] <Mez> @config list Bugtracker
[15:36] <Mez> @config Bugtracker
[15:36] <Mez> @config.Bugtracker
[15:36] <Mez> @supybot.config
[15:37] <jussi01> Mez: what are you tring to do?
[15:37] <Mez> find out it's list of archives
[15:38] <jdong> Mez =~ s/it's/its/g
[15:38]  * jdong puts on a helmet...
[15:38]  * Mez lols@the helmet
[15:40] <jussi01> @bugtracker list
[15:40] <ubotu> apache, ati.cchtml.com, bug, bughost.org, bugs.gentoo.org, bugs.ghostscript.com, bugs.opencompositing.org, bugzilla.mindrot.org, bugzilla.mozdev.org, bugzilla.pculture.org, bugzilla.xfce.org, cups, debian, django, freedesktop, freedesktop2, gaim, gcc, gnewsense, gnome, gnome2, issues.workrave.org, kde, launchpad, lp, madwifi, malone, mandriva, mozilla, novell, openoffice, openoffice.org, oss.codepoet.no, (1 more message)
[15:41] <jussi01> Mez: is that what you were after?
[15:41] <Mez> jussi01, nvm
[15:41] <jdong> jussi01: he was after getting !info pkgname distro to know about gutsy-partner
[15:42] <jdong> or a large chocolate bar
[15:42] <jussi01> jdong: ahhh yes
[15:42] <jdong> I forgot which
[15:43]  * jussi01 thinks !java needs an update
[15:43] <jussi01> !java
[15:43] <ubotu> To install a Java runtime/interpreter on Ubuntu, look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java - For the Sun Java runtime install sun-java6-jre from the !Multiverse repository (in !Backports for !Edgy)
[15:43] <jussi01> huh??
[15:43] <jussi01> !java-#kubuntu
[15:43] <ubotu> To install a Java compiler/interpreter on Ubuntu, look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java - For the Sun Java runtime install sun-java5-jre from the !Multiverse repository. Enable the backports repository on Edgy to install sun-java6-jre. Please don't use Adept to install Java if you are on Kubuntu 6.10 (Edgy) or earlier.
[15:43] <jussi01> hmmm
[15:43] <jussi01> someone want to fix that?
[15:44] <jdong> both are incorrect
[15:44] <jdong> first of all, it is just simply a runtime, not an interpretor
[15:44] <jussi01> heh
[15:44] <jdong> (unless you're using gij in which case burn in hell)
[15:44] <jdong> sun-java{5,6}-jre are the right ones, -jdk for compiler
[15:44] <jdong> they're all in supported distros so no need for this backports stuff
[15:45] <jdong> and icedtea-java7-* is new and FOSS in Gutsy/Hardy
[15:52] <Jack_Sparrow> jussi01:  please hold off on the enter key..  full sentences really help keep this readable
[15:52] <jussi01> Jack_Sparrow: ??
[15:52]  * jussi01 whacks jdong for Jack_Sparrow
[15:52] <Jack_Sparrow> Both of you
[15:53] <Jack_Sparrow> oh..
[15:53] <Jack_Sparrow> Just getting punchy
[15:53] <jussi01> hehe
[15:53] <Jack_Sparrow> Didnt even realize I was in the ops room
[15:54] <jussi01> wel im off for a bit - someone fix that factoid if you have time :)
[15:54] <Jack_Sparrow> np  will do
[15:55] <Jack_Sparrow> The Dr changed my meds and I have not had a good nights sleep all week
[15:55] <LjL> channel, for crying out loud, *channel*
[15:56] <no0tic> LjL?
[15:57] <LjL> no0tic: "room"
[15:57] <Mez> LjL, -HASH- ubuntu-ops ;)
[16:26] <jpatrick> evening
[16:30] <no0tic> jpatrick, hi
[16:32] <jpatrick> hi no0tic
[16:32] <Pici> hi
[16:34] <PriceChild>
[16:34] <LjL> PriceChild: you're so right
[16:34] <PriceChild> I call that a design flaw of qwerty... having a backspace so close to return.
[16:34] <PriceChild> :P
[16:36] <Pici> What a lousy tournament that must be if everyone wins.
[16:38] <LjL> kicks tournament!
[16:39] <PriceChild> What tournament?
[16:39] <Pici> 11:32:48 <?Poker_Player> POKER TOURNAMENT --> EVERYBODY WINS MONEY !
[16:40] <PriceChild> ohhh
[16:42] <no0tic> where?! I wanna play!
[16:42] <no0tic> :P
[16:46] <TheSheep> moeny? no ponies? pffft!
[16:51] <jpatrick> !ping
[16:51] <ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[16:52] <jpatrick> hmm
[16:54] <TheSheep> but when you install sighing doors, I'm leaving ;)
[17:05] <Jack_Sparrow> Why do we have a page in the forums promoting automatix and envy?   http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=512059
[17:08] <jpatrick> "Last install I had to use ENVY 3 times before it installed correctly."
[17:20] <PriceChild> Jack_Sparrow, forums are forums.... users can write what they like
[17:21] <PriceChild> Jack_Sparrow, PMing the user about it.
[17:21] <Jack_Sparrow> We should be able to pull something that bad
[17:21] <Jack_Sparrow> thanks
[17:21] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[17:21] <ubotu> FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[17:21] <ubotu> FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)
[17:21] <PriceChild> Haha you guys see that pwnage?
[17:22] <jpatrick> meh, they get stupider everyday
[17:23] <ikonia> Jack_Sparrow the guy who has wrote the article classes himself as a "development user" which to my mind says "experienced" yet he's saying "it works as long as you use envy" this is back to front on every front
[17:23] <Mez> OMG @ PriceChild that was AWS0MZ!
[17:23] <PriceChild> Mez, I'm sure he got his lolz
[17:33] <Pici> s/lolz/lulz/
[17:42] <PriceChild> whoops my mistake
[17:56] <ubotu> DRebellion called the ops in #ubuntu (freepenguin)
[18:01] <Seveas> freepenguin should be shot
[18:03]  * jussi01 pulls out his IRC gun...
[18:15] <Pici> Cpudan80: How can we help you today?
[18:15] <Cpudan80> ikonia: As a staffer - you should know the basics for catalyizing
[18:15] <Cpudan80> 1 friendly comment isn't the basis for an outright assault
[18:16] <ikonia> I'm not staff, and no-one assaulted you
[18:16] <Cpudan80> Oh my mistake
[18:16] <Cpudan80> ikonia: Well then --- as a staffer --- I urge you to read freenode's docs about catalysts
[18:16] <ikonia> "hi - how is everyeone" in a VERY busy at the moment support channel is not good
[18:16] <Pici> Cpudan80: #ubuntu can get crazy at time, ikonia is just trying to keep everyone on topic.
[18:16] <Cpudan80> Pici: Maybe so, but 1 comment != drift off topic
[18:17] <ikonia> Cpudan80: imagine 20 people "Hi, I'm fine Cpudan80 how are you"
[18:17] <ikonia> the channel is very busy
[18:17] <ikonia> your 1 comment could provoke 20 people to respond
[18:17] <Cpudan80> ikonia: At which time further action is necessary
[18:17] <Cpudan80> ikonia: It never does
[18:17] <Cpudan80> And you know that
[18:17] <ikonia> Cpudan80 no I don't, the bottom line, ubuntu is not a chat channel, and it's really busy at the moment, so idle chat is just making noise
[18:18] <Cpudan80> As much crap as #ubuntu (and ##windows in my case sees) some break in the monotony is good
[18:18] <ikonia> no it's not
[18:18] <ikonia> the channel is VERY busy at the moment
[18:18] <ikonia> go to ubuntu-offtopic for "chat" or a break
[18:18] <Cpudan80> So what?
[18:18] <Cpudan80> Support is free
[18:18] <Cpudan80> Wait your turn
[18:19] <ikonia> I'm not going to discuss this futher and allow someone else to take this up with you
[18:19] <Cpudan80> You might not get answered for an hour, oh well
[18:19] <Cpudan80> Fine
[18:28] <ikonia> Pici: ado_sk is back
[18:29] <Pici> ikonia: thanks.
[18:29] <ikonia> didn't know if you'd left
[18:29] <Pici> ikonia: I'm a bit too busy here to help out with any questions in #ubuntu, but I'll try to still do the 'housecleaning;
[18:29] <ikonia> fine no problem
[18:31] <ikonia> Pici: I should have just said "bye" but he was just trying to provoke
[18:37] <Pici> ironic for someone with the name familyfriendly to do that.
[18:43] <ubotu> In ubotu, pike_ said: what is dpkg
[18:43] <Pici> bot > pike_
[18:43] <Pici> !bot > pike_
[18:44] <jdong> dpkg is the thing that broke in hardy yesterday
[18:45] <jpatrick> !dpkg > Pici
[18:45] <jpatrick> opp
[18:45] <jpatrick> !dpkg > pike_
[18:45] <jussi01> hehe
[18:46] <jpatrick> !info dpkg > pike_
[18:46] <Pici> 13:46:26 <pike_> im being spammed by ops for my accidental edit request
[18:47] <Pici> jpatrick: 13:46:26 <pike_> im being spammed by ops for my accidental edit request
[18:47] <jpatrick> err
[18:47] <ompaul> jpatrick, I think that Pici knows !dpkg already ;-)
[18:48] <jpatrick> ompaul: miss tabbed it :)
[18:48] <ompaul> jpatrick, aye
[18:50] <jdong> haha poor soul
[18:50] <jpatrick> just wanted to give some pointers :)
[19:42] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, MenZa said: !halp is <alias> help
[19:48] <jussi01> hmmm, whats peoples opinions of this nick: [21:45] *** ReallyhungNbruta<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #kubuntu
[19:49] <ompaul> jussi01, did ya have to ask?
[19:50] <nalioth> jussi01: is s/he misbehaving?
[19:50] <jussi01> nalioth: nope not at all. just joined, was premptively asking
[19:50] <nalioth> jussi01: did it occur to you that _your_ nick was offensive in some languages?
[19:51] <Pici> Aparrently my nick is.
[19:51] <no0tic> Pici, your nick name is a type of pasta in italy
[19:51] <jussi01> nalioth: it did. Hence I ask here where we have a large number of nationalities and experience.
[19:52] <nalioth> jussi01: actions speak louder than words
[20:03] <PriceChild> Pici, I did it in less letters, I win :D
[20:03] <Pici> PriceChild: But I still did it first ;)
[20:03] <PriceChild> a mere technicality
[20:04] <Gary> quite a big technicality though
[20:04] <PriceChild> :P
[20:18]  * Pici hides
[20:18] <ompaul> woops
[20:19]  * ompaul scratches his head
[20:19] <Gary> have fun ompaul ?
[20:20] <ompaul> Gary, na - that can be defined as me not having fun
[20:20] <ompaul> very clearly
[20:20] <Gary> awww
[20:46] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, aoupi said: ubotu: not that high is it?
[21:31] <ubotu> MLP called the ops in #ubuntuforums ()
[22:24] <ubotu> nosrednaekim called the ops in #kubuntu ()
[22:39] <keescook> hello!  the #ubuntu-hardened channel's founder is MIA.  We'd like to coordinate things a little better for it's ownership.  what do you folks recommend?
[22:44] <LjL> keescook, i'm not sure why you don't use #ubuntu-security, would seem the obvious choice to me give the name of the team...?
[22:46] <LjL> keescook: anyway i recommend that you take over as contact
[22:48] <keescook> LjL: we kept #ubuntu-hardened since it already had active people, etc.  It was a trade-off, but I'm hoping we'll grow the group of people involved to the point where we'll need both channels in the future.  :)
[22:48] <keescook> LjL: I'm happy to take over as contact.
[22:48] <nalioth> what is the difference in 'hardened' and 'security' ?
[22:48] <LjL> yeah, i'm wondering too, since there are two different teams
[22:50] <keescook> LjL: traditionally, the "hardened" team was for proactive security only (not ongoing security)
[22:51] <keescook> but since the ongoing security work tends to be related, we merged
[22:51] <keescook> and the prior "security team" team tended to do all it's work via privmsg.  :P
[22:51] <LjL> i see
[22:52] <keescook> so in our attempts to have a more sane community, we've all piled into #ubuntu-hardened channel and mailing list, while keeping some of the team structures separate
[22:54] <LjL> keescook: i have no idea how familiar you might be with IRC commands related to channel management, but in case we have some information and tips here  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/CreatingChannels and here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/Coordination - for anything else, ask in #ubuntu-irc or here
[22:55] <emet> LjL, do you know if I'll ever be unbanned from #ubuntu ?
[22:55] <keescook> LjL: okay, thanks for the tips
[22:55] <LjL> emet: uhm, sorry, refresh my memory, why were you banned?
[22:56] <emet> like a month ago for posting a youtube video>
[22:56] <emet> ..
[22:59] <LjL> emet: back in a second
[23:02] <LjL> emet, are you familiar with the CoC and our IRC guidelines?
[23:04] <emet> yes
[23:05] <LjL> emet: can you reasonably say that you will abide by them in the future? "being bored" is not a good enough reason for tricking users into clicking links in #ubuntu - not at all
[23:05] <emet> right
[23:06] <LjL> emet: just to be on the safe side i suggest you check out these factoids too
[23:06] <LjL> !etiquette > emet    (emet, see the private message from Ubotu)
[23:07] <emet> LjL, thank you
[23:08] <emet> I don't typically do stuff like that :o I don't want to give you the impression that I am a trouble maker
[23:08] <LjL> emet: show your thankfulness by not giving us a reason to ban you again
[23:08] <emet> I mean I helped found the Florida LoCo and founded the FAU LUG (university lug)
[23:09] <emet> also I distributed over 100 CDs from ShipIt and another 50 or so that I printed
[23:10] <LjL> emet: then you're expected to behave even more responsibly than the casual user :)
[23:10] <emet> I didn't realize it was such a big deal
[23:10] <emet> sorry
[23:19] <Pici> emet: I hear LjL has already taken care of you and explained everything the same way that I would have.
[23:21] <Pici> Anyways, you're right, it wasn't *that* big of a deal.
[23:53] <nosrednaekim> hey, how can I get my ubuntu member cloak?
[23:53] <PriceChild> nosrednaekim, launchpad url please
[23:53] <PriceChild> *could you give me your
[23:54] <nosrednaekim> sure, one sec
[23:55] <ubotu> Bodsda called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[23:55] <nosrednaekim> PriceChild➜ https://launchpad.net/~nosrednaekim
[23:56] <nalioth> i hate typing out nicknames
[23:56] <Pici> naloith, me too
[23:56] <PriceChild> nosrednaekim, have you got two a secondary nickname linked to this, and an email set?
[23:56] <PriceChild> s/two//
[23:57] <nosrednaekim> PriceChild➜ I do not have two nicks if thats what you are wondering....
[23:58] <PriceChild> nosrednaekim, could you follow http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup please?


[03:44] <studio-user261> Hello!
[03:45] <studio-user261> My installation of Ubuntu Studio 12.10 seems to be stuck on this step: Dec 15 00:43:29 ubuntu-studio ubiquity: update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.5.0-17-lowlatency
[03:45] <studio-user261> anyone have any ideas? it's been about 3 hours..
[03:46] <studio-user261> and this is the second time it's done this
[03:46] <holstein> studio-user261: sure... install from a minimal CD and add the packages... try 12.04.. check the md5 sum. try 32bit
[03:47] <holstein> test the hardware
[03:47] <studio-user261> boo 32 bit :( hehe. I did have vanialla Ubuntu 12.04 working fine. Could I perhaps install Ubuntu Studio 12.04 and upgrade it to 12.10? i've never done an upgrade over an existing installation before so I'm not sure how it works
[03:48] <holstein> studio-user261: i would just use 12.04
[03:48] <studio-user261> really? is 12.10 not worth the upgrade, I take it?
[03:49] <holstein> no... especially if its not working for you
[03:49] <studio-user261> haha fair point
[03:49] <holstein> i still have 10.04 installed here on my studio machine
[03:49] <holstein> i very recently installed 12.04 on there beside it
[03:49] <holstein> i will not run any of the development releases there
[03:49] <holstein> i do test them for the team
[03:50] <holstein> what would i do? 12.04.. what do i suggest you do? 12.04
[03:50] <studio-user261> cool! well i'll try that. i'm going to have to leave chat since I'm on the system that's trying to install right now. I'll come back in and tell you if it worked or not. Thanks for the advice!
[03:51] <studio-user261> i'll change my nick to Robut when I come back.. that's much easier to remember than random numbers :)
[04:08] <robut_> installing 12.04 now.. fingers crossed! :)
[04:11] <holstein> well, you know it used to work so it should again
[04:12] <robut> well vanilla did. i never installed studio before. im installing Ubuntu Studio 12.04 this time instead of vanilla :)
[04:13] <robut> well hopefully i am lol
[04:14] <holstein> ubuntustudio is ubuntu.. though it is using xfce instead of unity
[04:14] <holstein> you can always just installl ubuntu and add what you want from our packages
[04:15] <robut> yeah. i thought about doing that, but i never had much luck with Jack specifically, so i figured since it came with studio it might work better out of the box
[04:15] <robut> well, installation just completed! so i guess it worked! Thanks for the advice, holstein !
[04:16] <holstein> things are different since JACK is in the main repos, and we dont have/need a different kernel as ba as we used to
[04:17] <robut> well hopefully i'll have better luck with it this time. I really love the idea of a complete open source workflow, but if it doesnt work reliably i'll have to use winblows *shudder*
[04:18] <robut> well thanks again for the advice! i gotta take off. have a good one!
[05:47] <Chamunks> alsamixer has completely stopped recognizing my onboard audio.
[05:47] <Chamunks> I dont know how to get it back.
[06:44] <ubuntu-studio> hi
[16:42] <prpl> hi, I would like to add "open as administrator" to the nautilus context menu, but need help, thanks
[16:54] <Woogie> Hola!
[16:59] <Woogie> So I'm telling Ardour to sync to jack clock (I'm not sure wether time master bar should be on or off), but how do i set tempo on jackq? Thanks
[19:24] <Woogie> has anyone used ninjam?
[19:30] <len-1304> No, but it does sound interesting.
[19:31] <len-1304> It would lend itself to a particular kind of music.
[19:32] <len-1304> Playing around one chord or related chords
[19:36] <len-1304> Woogie, it looks pretty simple to use. It seems it would require at least one machine with an IP that is visible direct for the server.
[19:38] <len-1304> While a static IP would be handy, static would work ok too with a bit more work.
[19:40] <len-1304> Sorry the second "static" should be dynamic...
[19:47] <len-1304> However there some public servers around... but I don't know how busy they are.
[19:57] <len-1304> Listening to some of the examples, it is obvious that it is easy to make some truly bad sounding stuff. Some of that would be that there are less than talented people trying it. Some is that it takes time to get to know a stranger's playing.
[19:59] <len-1304> I'm listening to one now though that is reasonable though.
[20:20] <MaynardWaters> anyone have thoughts on my troubles mounting a smb read only share?
[20:20] <MaynardWaters> sudo mount -t smbfs smb://set/everything-viewonly /media/everything
[20:20] <MaynardWaters> Mounting cifs URL not implemented yet. Attempt to mount smb://set/everything-viewonly
[20:20] <MaynardWaters> and does not mount
[20:52] <Woogie> len-1304: Yeah, it seems quite fun, I'm giving a shot at compiling the source, these are dark waters to me
[20:52] <len-1304> Woogie, the server or the client?
[20:53] <Woogie> client
[20:53] <len-1304> Makes sense. Do you have friends you are planning to play with or just join the online community of whoever is there.
[20:54] <Woogie> the latter
[20:54] <len-1304> That is probably a good way to start.
[20:56] <len-1304> It seems that as the same set of people play together things get better. I think an open chat channel or even a low BW video channel could be useful.
[21:05] <Woogie> i can't "make" the source package
[21:05] <Woogie> http://pastebin.com/Fz5Ph3ry
[21:06] <len-1304> It looks like you need to have the vorbis dev packages installed.
[21:07] <len-1304> That should include the vorbis *.h files.
[21:08] <len-1304> probably libvorbis-dev is the package you are looking for.
[21:09] <len-1304> After you get that one you find others in the same way that you need.
[21:10] <Woogie> installing...
[21:11] <len-1304> The web page say it needs ALSA, ncurses, libogg, libvorbis installed. I would assume that means the -dev packages would be needed too.
[21:11] <len-1304> (welcome to compiling)
[21:14] <Woogie> *ahem* http://pastebin.com/EYmjJCxp
[21:15] <len-1304> asound.h will be found in alsa something...
[21:17] <len-1304> libasound2-dev?
[21:18] <Woogie> maybe libasound2-dev?
[21:19] <Woogie> sorry, I did not see your previous line
[21:19] <len-1304> Have you installed that package?
[21:19] <Woogie> just done it
[21:19] <Woogie> did it
[21:20] <len-1304> Ok.
[21:20] <Woogie> lemme make
[21:22] <Woogie> yet another dependency not met
[21:22] <Woogie> is there a way to check what's missing all at once
[21:23] <len-1304> I thought ./configure did that.
[21:23] <len-1304> Normal build is to do:
[21:23] <len-1304> ./configure
[21:23] <len-1304> make
[21:23] <len-1304> sudo make install
[21:24] <len-1304> There is normally an INSTALL text file in the root directory of the archive that gives the steps to use.
[21:25] <len-1304> Anyway the ./configure step should list missing things.
[21:25] <Woogie> bash: ./configure: No such file or directory
[21:26] <Woogie> there's no install text file
[21:26] <len-1304> I would have to download and look.
[21:27] <len-1304> However, my wife has come home and I will be spending some time with her.
[21:27] <Woogie> that's ok mate
[21:27] <len-1304> There doesn't seem to be many people around right now, zequence is probably better at doing compiles.
[21:29] <Woogie> I did not paid attention to the website, it list it's dependencies


[00:05] <RAOF> Not that I'm aware of; we use the gold linker by default and nvidia seems to run, mostly :)
[00:05] <Sentynel> bollocks, there goes *that* theory
[00:06] <Sentynel> soo, any other ideas why my system won't start with a kernel version later than 2.6.35-24?
[00:07] <Sentynel> in anything later than that it shows the kubuntu boot screen, then goes to a plain blue screen and locks up.
[00:16] <jcristau> RAOF: gold by default?
[00:20] <bjsnider> Sentynel, did you try to boot the offending kernels without the blob? did you check the logs?
[00:20] <RAOF> jcristau: I think so?
[00:20] <Sentynel> bjsnider: it boots fine on nouveau
[00:21] <Sentynel> I've looked at the logs and not found anything especially illuminating, but I may not have been looking in the right places
[00:21] <jcristau> i think debian still has ld -> ld.bfd at least.  maybe doko made the switch in U.
[00:22] <Sentynel> gold is optional in ubuntu
[00:22] <Sentynel> binutils-gold package switches the symlink to gold
[00:24] <RAOF> Yeah.  After investigtion, binutils ships both bfd and gold, but ld points to ld.bfd.  We've got some of the gold DSO linking stuff, though, which was what confused me.
[01:54] <Sentynel> hi again guys, quick update before I go to bed
[01:54] <Sentynel> gold *is* the problem
[01:55] <Sentynel> switched the symlink back and had dkms rebuild the module and lo and behold it booted fine
[01:58] <RAOF> Hurray!
[02:00] <RAOF> Perhaps another interesting test would be to rebuild the *kernel* with gold (if you haven't already tried that); it would not blow my socks off to discover that gold and bfd aren't 100% interoperable :)
[02:09] <Sentynel> I've heard somewhere already that gold won't successfully link kernels
[02:09] <Sentynel> which is probably what twigged me to wonder if that was the issue here
[02:10] <RAOF> Well, then.  Trying to link kernel modules with it seems like asking for trouble :).
[02:10] <Sentynel> apparently so
[02:11] <Sentynel> didn't even cross my mind before
[02:11] <Sentynel> but I was discussing gold the other day, and accidentally tried to boot a broken kernel version this evening
[02:11] <Sentynel> ach, well, I know what the issue is now, I can turn gold on and off as needed
[02:11] <Sentynel> cheers for the help guys
[10:57] <ricotz> RAOF, hello
[10:58] <ricotz> RAOF, is it still possible to update libxfixes in natty to 4:5.0-1?
[10:59] <tjaalton> why do you need it?
[11:02] <ricotz> gnome-shell seems to need it
[11:03] <tjaalton> i thought g-s had plenty of needs that can't be fulfilled in natty
[11:03] <ricotz> i am not sure about the consequence of updating xfixes in last minute
[11:04] <ricotz> tjaalton, actually this is the first besides nm 0.9
[11:04] <tjaalton> file a FFE and we'll see
[11:06] <ricotz> tjaalton, hmm, might be the best
[11:07] <RAOF> ricotz: What does gnome-shell use in the new libxfixes?
[11:09] <ricotz> RAOF, i havent looked into it yet, fredp wrote it is needed for "pointer barriers"
[11:09]  * RAOF can only think of pointer-barriers, but that's not in a released X server.  Maybe there are older changes I've forgotten, though :)
[11:10] <RAOF> I hope they don't expect to *use* them; those patches weren't in 1.10 :).  I'm not even sure they're in master, actually.
[11:10] <ricotz> ok, i will see how it works without the new version
[11:11] <RAOF> At least you won't lose any functionality by patching that out :)
[11:23] <RAOF> ricotz: Pointer barriers *haven't* been implemented on xserver master; if they're using them in gnome-shell, then either (a) redhat is shipping a server which supports protocol upstream doesn't or (b) they're not actually testing it :)
[11:24] <ricotz> RAOF, ok, thank you
[11:26] <RAOF> s/redhat/fedora/ to be strictly accurate, I guess :)
[14:26] <bjsnider> ricotz, is the gnome 3 ppa installable and usable right now in natty? some of the packages failed to build
[14:27] <Sarvatt> ricotz: want me to put new fixesproto and libXfixes in xorg-edgers to copy over or anything?
[14:29] <ricotz> bjsnider, it is usable with care ;), i am using gnome-shell and its needed deps, using the whole stack caused me some trouble some while a ago and reverting was a pain ;)
[14:30] <ricotz> Sarvatt, upstream said it isnt really needed, i think it is ok for now
[14:30] <ricotz> actually i was excepting to have it with edgers already :P
[15:54] <Sarvatt> argh ok, full screen flash on sandybridge in natty doesn't work, with xorg-edgers it works. just upgrading libdrm and intel on natty it doesn't work, just libdrm and mesa doesn't work. nothing really changed in xserver 1.10 branch. if libdrm + intel + mesa doesn't work next the only other possibility is pixman
[15:54] <Sarvatt> oh wait, hello mr. ia32-libs
[15:58] <Sarvatt> containing a 24 week old mesa
[16:00] <mdeslaur> die.ia32libs.die.die.die
[16:04] <Sarvatt> 64 bit flash plugin is fine, all signs point to ia32-libs
[16:07] <ricotz> Sarvatt, yeah, the ia32-libs package should go
[16:07] <ricotz> the multiarch transition might be usable soon
[16:07] <Sarvatt> we *seriously* need that updated in natty, I'm scared to think how many bugs are root caused by this with how much mesa has changed
[16:08] <ricotz> Sarvatt, i see
[16:08] <Sarvatt> there is a mesa 7.9 git checkout in our ia32-libs currently
[16:08] <ricotz> ok
[16:09] <Sarvatt> no r600g change, no TLS fixes, no functional sandybridge 3D support
[16:13] <Sarvatt> we disabled DRI completely on sandybridge in maverick because it was so bad in maverick's mesa thats in ia32-libs :(
[16:19] <ricotz> Sarvatt, i have uploaded new packages and removed the sanity check, i hope this works
[16:19] <Sarvatt> ricotz: oh I'm sorry man, I meant ia32-libs in natty needed to be updated, the ones in xorg-edgers actually work because you've updated them!
[16:20] <ricotz> Sarvatt, actually the natty one failed everytime
[16:20] <ricotz> bjsnider, any luck with gnome3? ;)
[16:20] <Sarvatt> ia32-libs 20090808ubuntu9+natty~xorgedgers3 is in the PPA
[16:21] <ricotz> yes :(
[16:22] <Sarvatt> lets see, its easy enough to add edgers and just downgrade ia32-libs to natty to be sure
[16:25] <Sarvatt> ah that one was built on 14-Nov-2010
[16:31] <ricotz> grrr
[16:34] <Sarvatt> ricotz: xorg-edgers with natty's old ia32-libs = gpu hung, xorg-edgers with the november ia32-libs = fine
[16:37] <ricotz> Sarvatt, ok, still it's old :/
[16:38] <Sarvatt> yep but the 7.10 and newer libdrm in there is enough to "work" at least to verify its the problem
[16:40] <ricotz> alright
[17:04] <bryceh> kees, got a minute?  ia32-libs question
[17:04] <bryceh> kees, or possibly help needed
[17:15] <Sarvatt> Need to get 854 MB of source archives.  -- <3 ia32-libs..
[17:16] <Sarvatt> oh bah, was still using the maverick wine ppa sources on this machine so it grabbed it from there
[17:50] <kees> bryceh: sorry, am on holiday until wed. but I can look at it more then if you need.
[17:52] <bryceh> kees, ah
[17:53] <bryceh> kees, ok is there someone else we can talk to about ia32-libs in the meantime?
[18:06] <Sarvatt> eww, so you cant update ia32-libs unless everything it pulls in builds properly? looks like the isdnutils ftbs from a few weeks ago is holding it up for starters
[18:14] <bryceh> Sarvatt, wow, there's a ton of X packages in ia32-libs
[18:14] <bryceh> jeez this is horrible
[18:15] <bryceh> this makes me want to have the apport hook redirect all amd64 X bugs to ia32-libs :-/
[18:15] <ricotz> Sarvatt, yeah, pango is the current reason, which is already multiarch patched
[18:15] <bryceh> Sarvatt, I've emailed scott richie for advice
[18:17] <bryceh> xorg, udev, xcb-util, xft, svgalib, libx*, mesa, dbus, even a copy of hal
[18:20] <Sarvatt> yeah this is why I dont use amd64 on machines I actually use day to day :P
[18:23] <bryceh> ditto
[18:24] <bryceh> I think maybe I am going to try to craft some way to detect ia32-libs presence in apport and kick out bug reports
[18:24] <bryceh> Sarvatt, do you think checking if ia32-libs is installed is the best way to identify this situation?
[18:25] <Sarvatt> nope, we'd need to know if they were doing something with the 32 bit libs.. google-earth, wine, 32 bit flash plugin..
[18:26] <bryceh> Sarvatt, like, I wonder if bugs like lp #738600 are also caused by ia32-libs
[18:26] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 738600 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "flash 10.2 plugin crashes when leaving full-screen with nvidia 270.30 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738600
[18:28] <bryceh> Sarvatt, is there a way that can be detected?
[18:28] <Sarvatt> "Actually that might not be relevant - I get it with nvidia 260.19.44 as well, where flash doesn't crash." comments like that really throw off the bug, 260.19.44 was installed from nvidia.com most likely and they dont have glx in the first place..
[18:28] <bryceh> true
[18:30] <bryceh> 740982 and 740462 are also x86_64 with -nvidia
[18:31] <bryceh> 737765 too
[18:32] <bryceh> Sarvatt, I guess the question is more about can we even support having multiple versions of mesa in the release
[18:32] <bryceh> I think no... too much possibility of uncertain stability and hard-to-diagnose client/server issues
[18:33] <kees> bryceh: yokozar is the best for ia32-libs. but the horror of ia32-libs is why we're pushing mutliarch so hard. ia32-libs will go away
[18:38] <mdeslaur> ia32-libs eats babies
[18:49] <jcristau> babies, kittens, anything cute.
[18:49] <mdeslaur> hehe
[19:06] <bryceh> okie doke
[19:50] <seb128> bryceh, hey, I will not play pingpong on bug #737891 but I'm not convinced you are right
[19:50] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 737891 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-display-properties unable to correctly enable monitors connected to VGA (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/737891
[19:50] <seb128> for one thing the issue is hardware specific and the client side has nothing hardware specific
[19:50] <seb128> it wouldn't be the first time the xrandr command and the capplet use the xorg apis differently and hit different issues
[19:55] <bryceh> seb128, sure but how is that an X issue?
[19:55] <bryceh> seb128, I neither like it when you ping pong bugs back to us without sufficient reason
[19:55] <bryceh> bbl
[19:56] <seb128> bryceh, well my reasoning is simple
[19:56] <seb128> - GNOME didn't change this cycle and the issue is new in natty
[19:56] <seb128> - the issue is hardware specific
[19:57] <seb128> both arguments suggest it's not a bug in the GNOME side
[19:57] <seb128> but I could be wrong, hard to say without having the hardware and debug the issue
[19:58] <seb128> it could also being something in the driver which doesn't like the way the calls are done from the GNOME capplet
[23:21] <kklimonda> hmm.. gnome-shell crashes a lot inside libnvidia-glcore.so.270.30..


[00:08] <arashbm> guys I get ` charm not found in repository` when deploying
[00:08] <arashbm> I have correct folder tree (repo/oneiric/charm-name) and no syntax error in config.yaml or metadata.yaml
[00:47] <_mup_> juju/local-cloud-img r487 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:47] <_mup_> merge trunk
[01:54] <_mup_> juju/local-cloud-img r488 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:54] <_mup_> wip, scope is starting to feel to large on this one, leaving off
[16:02] <marcoceppi> Anyway to change the verbosity of the juju commands? IE If I want to get rid of the INFO messages on the client side?
[16:04] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: yes debug-log allows a level to be passed
[16:05] <SpamapS> marcoceppi:   -l {DEBUG,INFO,ERROR,WARNING,CRITICAL}, --level {DEBUG,INFO,ERROR,WARNING,CRITICAL}
[16:05] <SpamapS>                         Log level to show
[16:05] <SpamapS> those are in the wrong order I think
[16:05] <SpamapS> I think CRITICAL should be between INFO and ERROR
[16:07] <SpamapS> hm no ...
[16:07] <SpamapS> should be DEBUG,INFO,WARNING,ERROR,CRITICAL
[16:07]  * SpamapS opens low bug w/ patch attached
[16:09] <marcoceppi> Doesn't seem to wsork
[16:09] <marcoceppi> juju status --level=WARNING
[16:10] <SpamapS> oh
[16:10] <SpamapS> that level of logging
[16:10] <marcoceppi> yeah
[16:10] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: that -l has to go *before* the subcommand
[16:11] <marcoceppi> SpamapS: Ah! Gotchya
[16:11] <marcoceppi> Excellent, thanks
[16:11] <SpamapS> I believe that is going to be changed in the go version.. kind of annoying the way that works
[16:31] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I did know that nginx speaks other protocols... I'm not sure it warrants its own singular primary charm.. but definitely as a subordinate it will be a swiss army knife of fun. :)
[16:35] <_mup_> Bug #964640 was filed: debug-log online help needs some minor tweaks <juju:In Progress by clint-fewbar> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/964640 >
[16:43] <imbrandon> SpamapS: well i was thinking a Nginx charm with examples like you said in sites-available
[16:44] <imbrandon> but also a "sane" rockstar defaults too
[16:44] <imbrandon> for normal web serving
[16:44] <imbrandon> somthing that like omg-wp or others could depend on like the provies: db: mysql kinda thing and then build on
[16:45] <imbrandon> but also have some kick ass examples in the sites avail for those that use it alone
[16:54] <hazmat> marcoceppi, logging options for the client, are just -v before the subcommand
[17:01] <SpamapS> imbrandon: right. All of that is good in the subordinate sense.. but nginx alone on its own host is only useful for specific uses like as a super high volume loadbalancer.
[17:05] <imbrandon> nah. its quickly becoming the goto webserver, i think another year and it will have a good 15% of the market
[17:06] <imbrandon> even for mom and pop shops that overoptimize
[17:06] <SpamapS> imbrandon: but what use is a static webserver with no way to get files onto it?
[17:06] <SpamapS> imbrandon: it will always be paired with something else
[17:06] <imbrandon> i mean yea me and you know its overkill but tell johny he dont need a farri when the farri is the same cost as the pento
[17:06] <imbrandon> ;)
[17:07] <imbrandon> sure we use it with php-fpm now
[17:07] <imbrandon> even for omg
[17:07] <imbrandon> i guess i'm missing someething or assume something your not
[17:07] <SpamapS> imbrandon: charms define all the things that go onto a server right now
[17:08] <imbrandon> when i said an nginx applince i mean a general suped up server charm - the db
[17:08] <SpamapS> imbrandon: when subordinates land, it will be easier to componentize things like nginx in a generic way.
[17:08] <imbrandon> well yea , i'm thinking ahead, and using the provides db mysql think as a platform in my head
[17:09] <imbrandon> thinking that drupal or wp can site onyop of a nginx provide and a mysql provide
[17:09] <imbrandon> and reallly cant that be done now, i mean there is an example i thought with like something that was using a ton of provides and then just did a relation on them all at the end
[17:10] <imbrandon> were they all on single instances ? i dident look close
[17:10] <SpamapS> imbrandon: 1 charm, 1 instance
[17:10] <imbrandon> ouch ok , yea i dident have that part in my head
[17:10] <imbrandon> ouch ouch
[17:11] <SpamapS> imbrandon: subordinates let you define special charms that will relate to services via the filesystem or <IP_ADDRESS> ...
[17:11] <imbrandon> anything i can do to put my code where my mouth is and help the
[17:11] <imbrandon> compartmentalizing up
[17:11] <imbrandon> or what you called it
[17:11] <SpamapS> imbrandon: so in that case, we can make every PHP app a subordinate to nginx, or lighttpd, or whatever, and just have them always run php5-fpm
[17:11] <imbrandon> right
[17:11] <imbrandon> yea
[17:12] <SpamapS> imbrandon: not really. The branches are in review and landing in trunk. Once that lands, you can write the nginx charm. :)
[17:12] <imbrandon> i like that idea, even better if it lets you overlay like somehinh along the lines of say
[17:12] <imbrandon> casperfs
[17:12] <imbrandon> i mean not litterly but thats the idea in my brain
[17:13] <imbrandon> a filesystem overlay of charm ontop of chamr
[17:13] <SpamapS> imbrandon: well they all just get extracted and run inside a single instance.. not sure where overlays would come in.
[17:13] <imbrandon> charm* so like a base nginx with and then a fcgi or fpm php and then a drupal but the drupal sets fpm settings "overlayed" etcv
[17:14] <imbrandon> instead of conflicts like the dpkg system
[17:14] <imbrandon> so drupal can come with a specialized php.ini
[17:14] <imbrandon> that overides the php-fpm php.ini charm
[17:14] <imbrandon> intentionaly
[17:14] <imbrandon> but in an overlayed type way
[17:15] <SpamapS> imbrandon: Ahh I see now
[17:15] <imbrandon> make any more sense, its like a brain puke i'm having here so some of its by the seat of my pants just learning charms are one per instance atm
[17:16] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I think we can make that work with just charm store policy on how files get written by subordinates
[17:16] <imbrandon> so not well thought out but still i think something along those lines is better than say a conflicts system
[17:16] <_mup_> Bug #964658 was filed: juju crashes when talking to MAAS without an explicit port <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/964658 >
[17:17] <imbrandon> right, the hard(er) part is what happens if the drupal is replaced by wordpress, but i guss in that case its just re-deploy
[17:17] <SpamapS> imbrandon: its more like Replaces in dpkg terms.. "let me overwrite that charm's files"
[17:17] <imbrandon> and ont worry about restoring back to php and overlay somehting new
[17:17] <imbrandon> yea
[17:17] <SpamapS> imbrandon: yeah, the beauty of the cloud.. if you want to repurpose.. you just spin up new ones. :)
[17:18] <imbrandon> yea like replaces, but i say overlay that way it can inderit defaults from the parent package even if that package normaly wouldnt support it
[17:18] <ninjix> juju crew, do you have a team preference for Python editor or IDE?
[17:19] <SpamapS> ninjix: I know hazmat uses emacs
[17:19] <SpamapS> I prefer vim
[17:19] <imbrandon> like php.ini is a bad example because it lets you only specify some settingswing natively
[17:19] <imbrandon> but say ummm cant come up with a good example atm
[17:19] <imbrandon> lol
[17:19] <ninjix> is there a any coding style? PEP8 etc?
[17:20] <hazmat> ninjix, emacs and vim are most common among the dev team, although i've been playing with sublime.. specifically for python.. pycharm or wingide are two commercial well done python ides
[17:20] <SpamapS> imbrandon: there's also dotdee.. which lets you regenerate a config whenever files in a .d dir change
[17:20]  * imbrandon uses Zend Studio + Espresso.app + nano ( but my charms are in bash or php heh )
[17:20] <marcoceppi> I haven't seen a php charm yet, mostly bash/dash and Python
[17:20] <SpamapS> ninjix: pep8 yes
[17:20] <imbrandon> and vim-full when nessesary, but tryies to avoid it
[17:20] <marcoceppi> I started writing one
[17:20] <SpamapS> marcoceppi: mediawiki has a hook in php :)
[17:20] <ninjix> I'm starting in on a Proxmox provider
[17:21] <ninjix> any debug env tips?
[17:21] <marcoceppi> booya :D
[17:21] <imbrandon> marcoceppi: my drupal uber charm is in php
[17:21] <SpamapS> made it simpler to read the configs
[17:21] <marcoceppi> yeah
[17:21] <imbrandon> bootsrapped in bash and majority of code is php
[17:21] <imbrandon> to do all the rest
[17:21] <hazmat> ninjix, proxmox in what sense?
[17:22] <hazmat> ninjix, as a local provider or controlling remote containers?
[17:22] <ninjix> I want my juju instances to launch faster so I'm going to cut cobbler middle man out
[17:22] <hazmat> gotcha
[17:23] <imbrandon> marcoceppi: basicly after apt-get install blah blah , then eveything else is in php, kinda half way intentional to be diffrent and since drupal sysadmins/users likely will know it more so than python
[17:23] <ninjix> hazmat: remote proxmox qemu
[17:23] <SpamapS> ninjix: remind me again.. proxmox is a virtualization frontend, like libvirt or XenServer ?
[17:23] <hazmat> ninjix, cool, there's a half implemented xen server provider as well.. but the nutshell is look at providers/common/base.py  it basically defines the interface
[17:23] <SpamapS> imbrandon: yeah thats part of the reason juju just uses execs.. lets people write charms in whatever language they're comfortable in
[17:24] <ninjix> SpamapS: proxmox is a virtualization env more along the lines of ESX
[17:24] <SpamapS> hazmat: there's one evil place in juju/unit/address.py where providers are ifelse'd
[17:24] <hazmat> ninjix, here's a list of provider responsibilities, its a bit dated, we have constraints for machine/image selection now.. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2011-November/000906.html
[17:24] <hazmat> SpamapS, yeah.. its a dispatch for provider specific logic
[17:24] <ninjix> hazmat: thanks
[17:25] <SpamapS> hazmat: should be moved into the providers as a new method of MachineProvider
[17:25] <imbrandon> yea, its not rally the _best_ for cli apps, but its definately not unpresidented , using the pear Console class and Drush ( php drupal cli app ) the community is already familiar with and saves me alot of code
[17:25] <hazmat> SpamapS, the things running that shouldn't have access to the provider
[17:25] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I wrote quite a few useful PHP cli apps at my former employer
[17:26] <imbrandon> sides release early realase often right, who knows maybe it will have some vb6 code before all said and done ;)
[17:27] <hazmat> SpamapS, but yeah.. it could use for some restructuring to push/centralize that knowledge to the appropriate place
[17:27] <imbrandon> yea i have as well, most were / are just phing extenstions though :)
[17:28] <imbrandon> back in a bit
[17:28] <ninjix> hazmat: ahh... wish I had the link last night... had to discover most of those behaviors and methods the hard way. :)
[17:28] <hazmat> although, mostly its just a dictionary lookup based on provider type which is commonly known, its an additional responsibility that's not advertised very well
[17:28] <imbrandon> btw /waves , hi everyone else
[17:28] <SpamapS> hazmat: ultimately, IMO, it should only take a directory in juju/providers to recognize a provider....
[17:28] <SpamapS> hazmat: they're so close to being plugins already :)
[17:29] <SpamapS> hazmat: just have to drop the hooks in juju/unit/address and juju/environment/config
[17:32] <imbrandon> so hows the namespace thing work with charms , first come first server ? are there plans to let remote charms be listed ( if anyone here is familiar with the "brew" and "tap" structure for OSS OS X apps is what i'm thinking, its like bsd ports and dpkg mixed up, but in a goood way )
[17:32] <SpamapS> imbrandon: flat namespace just like packages.
[17:32] <imbrandon> hrm kk
[17:32] <hazmat> SpamapS, while its true we could make them pluggable, my attempts to get independently distributed plugins into core have met with resistance
[17:32] <SpamapS> actually thats not entirelya ccurate..
[17:32] <hazmat> at least to the extent they relied on python specific mechanisms
[17:33] <SpamapS> imbrandon: local: and cs: are independent of one another..
[17:33] <SpamapS> hazmat: hm.. I wonder why. :)
[17:33] <imbrandon> hazmat: heh i think thats what i'm asking about too in another way
[17:33] <SpamapS> any growth of the python version's capabilities means more for the go team to duplicate. I think its fair to resist non-essential extensions for that reason.
[17:34] <SpamapS> imbrandon: so your local:foo won't interfere with cs:foo
[17:34] <imbrandon> SpamapS: yea but what about dist, say i want something dist but not via the charm store
[17:35] <imbrandon> like akin to adding a source to apt.list ( obviosuly diff )
[17:35] <imbrandon> so github:foo
[17:35] <imbrandon> or something
[17:36] <SpamapS> imbrandon: no, there's cs, and local, thats it
[17:36] <imbrandon> again alot of this is brain puking as i'm just now wrapping my head around alot of this , so if i'm being to bothersome tell me to stfu and rtfm :)
[17:36] <hazmat> imbrandon, ninjix, at the moment, the best way to contribute a provider plugin is writing it in go.. but that won't be useful with 12.04. its not clear if we'd add any new pythons ones into 12.04.1 core if they didn't have go analogues.
[17:36] <SpamapS> imbrandon: of course, you can also have  cs:~imbrandon/precise/foo
[17:37] <imbrandon> ahh gonna bake in lp like bzr did ?
[17:37] <SpamapS> imbrandon: its not LP actually, but yes
[17:37] <SpamapS> imbrandon: the charm store does pull from launchpad.. but it doesn't have to
[17:37] <imbrandon> cool
[17:37] <ninjix> hazmat: no problem. I'm learning as I go here. Going to use the Orchestra provider as my starting template.
[17:38] <imbrandon> hrm i guess thats where the bit hazmat was talking about adding a provider
[17:38] <imbrandon> err wait
[17:38] <imbrandon> not really cuz thats a deployment target not
[17:38] <imbrandon> a source
[17:38] <imbrandon> hrm
[17:39] <hazmat> ninjix, ugh.. the testing for that one is a bit gnarly
[17:39] <hazmat> ninjix, i'd use the  maas provider, its probably the simplest of the bunch
[17:40] <hazmat> although its also the one with the least amount of real world usage.
[17:40] <imbrandon> so if it dont have to how do i specify cs:~imbrandon/precise/foo == github.com/bholtsclaw/charms/foo+branch_precise
[17:40] <imbrandon> i kknow there isnt now, but like is it planned or like a nono
[17:41] <imbrandon> and alot of it is just semantics as once the inital charm is downloaded then it can come from anywhere
[17:41] <imbrandon> i know that
[17:42] <imbrandon> okies, actually i got to run anyhow, thanks SpamapS and hazmat for entertaining my thoughts for a bit, i'll be back in hour or two to finish the drupal charm up today hopefully
[17:43] <imbrandon> and now i gotta come up with as uber name for it :)
[17:43] <imbrandon> s#as#a
[17:44] <ninjix> hazmat: ok
[17:45] <imbrandon> SpamapS: btw dont you take weekends off ? hahaha j/k man
[17:45]  * imbrandon is out
[17:48] <SpamapS> I do
[17:48] <SpamapS> and I'm out too
[17:48] <SpamapS> :)


[08:27] <eonym> hello everybody, I'm trying to put my aquaris E4.5 ubuntu edition to android following this tutorial http://a25.co/ubuntu-phone-how-to-install-android/ from ubuntu desktop but it doesn't work, when I try to lauch flash_tool.sh it tell  formatting errot for exec()
[08:27] <eonym> is someone can help me ?
[08:27] <eonym> error*


[22:16] <flocculant> balloons: I see the last published qatracker task is done - all I've got left in my head is reporting one(s) re bug 1375456 - if you really don't want to go there then that's fine, but I'm done thinking now - off for the night - leave me a message yay or nay and I'll respond accordingly
[22:16] <flocculant> nice to see the tasks being done - \o/ from me
[22:16] <flocculant> cya :)


[02:49] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[12:41] <lotuspsychje> 2.1gb hd space yay :p
[13:39] <lotuspsychje> !test
[13:40] <lotuspsychje> hmm ubottu responds in query but not in public
[15:49] <ogra_> it might have a shy day today ...


[00:00] <xu-help1w> The 20.04.2 has Kernel 5.4 and fortunately the nvidia driver works fine.
[00:00] <tomreyn> so the *failsafe* installer mode does not work for you?
[00:00] <Bashing-om> xu-help1w: then you want the 20.04.1 release that has the GA 5.4 kernel series.
[00:03] <tomreyn> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/20.04/release/ only seems to provide 20.04.3 though
[00:03] <xu-help1w> Also I can't find 20.04.1 iso image...
[00:04] <tomreyn> so i'd try failsafe, and then the option to update all packages during installation
[03:21] <xu-help66w> Hello
[03:22] <xu-help66w> I am having issues with toggling my screen between full scaled and scaled. My keyboard does not have a right ctrl button or a host button. If anyone could help me out, I would be very thankful :)
[13:18] <JackFrost> KBar: I don't know where you got xfce4-windowck-plugin, so obviously I/we can't update it for you.
[13:19] <KBar> JackFrost: I pulled the source from this repo: https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-windowck-plugin
[13:20] <JackFrost> Thought it was a 'package update request', if it's not in Debian/Ubuntu (Xubuntu), it won't get into staging as that's just backports.
[13:21] <JackFrost> There's 'extras', but I don't see that getting in any time soon.
[13:22] <KBar> Ah, I see. Sorry for misinterpretation.
[13:23] <KBar> Understandable. Well, let me try to compile it one more time with different options. If that won't work, then so be it. Thank you and have wonderful holidays. Happy New Year.
[13:24] <JackFrost> Unfortunately, when compiling plugins you have to use the /usr prefix, installing to /usr/local won't work.
[13:28] <KBar> Hmm, will keep that in mind. I was also thinking of creating a deb archive from source and then just installing that instead. There's a little hope that it works.
[13:28] <JackFrost> Let me take a look.
[13:32] <JackFrost> Take either xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin or xfce4-xkb-plugin packaging, then update the names/descriptions/maintainer/etc and you should be pretty golden.
[13:33] <KBar> JackFrost: a fantastic way to start off a new year! More things to learn, which is pretty awesome. Thanks once again and Happy New Year.
[19:28] <xu-help31w> Hello
[19:30] <gnrp> xu-help31w: hey
[19:33] <xu-help31w> I'm Onur from Turkey.
[19:33] <xu-help31w> Nice operating system. Xubuntu.
[19:34] <gnrp> xu-help31w: hehe
[19:34] <gnrp> you're using the Turkish version of it? Or English?
[19:34]  * gnrp is from Germany
[19:35] <xu-help31w> It's Turkish version.
[19:36] <xu-help31w> I install English version for programming purposes.
[19:45] <xu-help31w> Otherwise it tries to show me incorrect traslations.
[19:48] <xu-help31w> Our national os Pardus is also based on xfce. I think this is because XFCE is stable and lightweight. Earlier it was KDE.
[19:55] <xu-help31w> Bye.


[14:30] <CIA-4> partman-btrfs: cjwatson * r57 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 5ubuntu3
[21:00] <zalg> how do I start the ubuntu installer from the mounted -o loop official ubuntu.iso ?
[21:02] <highvoltage> you don't
[21:02] <zalg> how helpful
[21:02] <zalg> why ?
[21:03] <highvoltage> because it won't work, it depends on more than just running ubiquity itself


[08:51] <sasa84> i'm having problem with lists.ubuntu.com. i'm admin of our ubuntu list and when i'm logging it says that authentification failed. i'm trying to log with my user password. is there any way that i could reset my admin password or should i try something else?


[17:29] <pleia2> wrt new user in channel, we were warned about this user (they aren't looking to talk women in tech)
[17:37] <IdleOne> you mean the one with the nick that can almost fool you into thinking it was someone you know


[00:56] <poolie> hi all
[00:56] <spiv> Hi poolie
[00:56] <poolie> hi spiv
[01:00] <poolie> spiv i'm going to just try to get through some of my currently assigned bugs today:
[01:00] <poolie> stale lock detection, automatic whoami, some others
[01:07] <jaricanese7> Hey guys. Not sure if this has been asked before, but I can't seem to find an answer on the Internet
[01:07] <jaricanese7> Why doesn't Maverick get Bazaar 2.2.2+ packages?
[01:09] <poolie> jaricanese7, it will, it's just slowly passing through the sru process
[01:10] <poolie> you can get an update now from the ~bzr ppa
[01:10] <jaricanese7> Because I was doing some research, and I noticed I have Bzr 2.2.1
[01:10] <jaricanese7> and 2.2.4 is already out
[01:10] <jaricanese7> If the update takes a longer, there may not be a point since I assume Natty will come with Bazaar 2.3
[01:11] <jaricanese7> I was hoping not having to use the PPA but I guess that'd what I'll have to do
[01:13] <poolie> let me check
[01:24] <jaricanese7> Just curious, is this something I can do?  As a community member, package this? Or only Bazaar developers can do this?
[01:27] <spiv> Hmm, I'm not sure where the delays are atm.
[01:28] <spiv> I don't think it's in packaging.
[01:29] <spiv> But if not I'm not sure where, because bzr is one of the approved micro-release exceptions to the typical SRU process (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions)
[01:31] <jaricanese7> I see
[01:31] <jaricanese7> That's weird
[01:31] <poolie> it's with jelmer or me pushing on it
[01:32] <poolie> or nagging for it to get uploaded
[01:32] <poolie> you can ask on the bug for it, um
[01:32] <poolie> my net connection here is very slow so i can't find it
[01:32] <poolie> basically someone just needs to ask an authorized developer to upload it and to push it through that process
[01:45] <poolie> spiv, i want to change lockdirs to return real objects for the lock info, not dicts
[01:45] <poolie> should i
[01:45] <poolie> - just break the api, and update in-tree callers
[01:46] <poolie> - support just __getitem__
[01:46] <poolie> - subclass UserDict?
[01:50] <spiv> poolie: you could subclass dict
[01:50] <spiv> Although I think any of those options is fine.
[01:51] <spiv> Are there any out-of-tree callers in any of the common plugins?
[01:51] <spiv> If there are and they only need e.g. __getitem__ support then that's probably the way to go.
[01:52] <poolie> oh i guess just subclassing dict would be simpler
[01:55] <poolie> it's a bit hard to grep for
[01:55] <poolie> but i don't think any of them use it
[01:55] <spiv> I'd probably just break the API then
[01:56] <spiv> Assuming that it wouldn't be too hard for a hypothetical plugin that did use it to support both old and new APIs.
[01:57] <poolie> no
[01:57] <poolie> it shouldn't be
[02:54] <poolie> wow, ben always surprises me
[02:54] <poolie> why build a package and not even try to install it?
[02:55] <fullermd> 'cuz it's really hard to install a package that isn't built.  So logically, the opposite of something really hard is something really easy; hence, !(install && !build) == !install && build   8-}
[02:56] <poolie> i guess it would be like wrestling a pig to ask why
[07:23] <lifeless> spiv: ping
[07:24] <spiv> lifeless: pong
[07:24] <lifeless> spiv: the branchmergeproposal creation error the package importer is having
[07:24] <lifeless> I want to make sure that we're not talking past each other :)
[07:24] <lifeless> AIUI it was crashing a lot
[07:24] <spiv> It was crashing a lot due to a bzr bug
[07:25] <lifeless> I think this is a bug in the API parameters being passed to LP
[07:25] <lifeless> ah, ok, cool
[07:25] <spiv> The bzr bug is fixed, and the fixed bzr deployed
[07:25] <lifeless> sweet
[07:25] <spiv> Now it is crashing with what appears to be bug 520412
[07:25] <spiv> Which judging from chatting with wgrant earlier today is probably due to the previously failing imports being relatively stale
[07:26] <spiv> And thus there's some sort of divergence that the importer is apparently trying to make merge proposals about?  I think vila knows about that, I think it may have been a recent change
[07:26] <wgrant> Two bugs that I see:
[07:26] <spiv> I'm hoping to catch vila when he gets online to ask him about it
[07:26] <wgrant> 1) The importer is calling the API incorrectly.
[07:27] <wgrant> 2) The API is raising a ValueError and OOPSing, instead of doing something even slightly useful.
[07:27] <lifeless> spiv: oh, ok - so what I am saying is valid
[07:28] <lifeless> bug 520412 is 'lp crashes when given bad input'
[07:28] <lifeless> spiv: if I were working on this I would get the parameters being given to lp to be printed in my log, and then look
[07:28] <lifeless> AIUI is the importer is saying something like
[07:29] <wgrant> It's pretty clear what the problem is...
[07:29] <lifeless> reviewers=[x,y,x], review_types=[1,2]
[07:29] <wgrant> It's passing reviewers=[ubuntu_dev] without review_types
[07:29] <vila> hi all !
[07:30] <lifeless> it needs a review_types=[''] I think
[07:31] <lifeless> spiv: I hope thats clearer/cleared this up
[07:31] <lifeless> I'll check back in a while
[07:31] <spiv> lifeless: well, it was pretty to *me* :P
[07:32] <spiv> s/pretty/pretty clear/
[07:32] <spiv> vila: read the last 10 minutes of backlog? :)
[07:32] <vila> lifeless, wgrant, spiv : There are several patches for the p-i in the queue waiting on RT #<can't find it>
[07:32] <vila> spiv: done
[07:33] <vila> I was able to reproduce locally at one point, can try lifeless proposal
[07:34] <vila> but we'll still need to deploy on jubany which is... hard these days :-/
[07:35] <vila> ha, rt #44761, nothing happened since friday...
[07:36] <spiv> vila: we need RT to update lp:udd on jubany?
[07:36] <vila> spiv: read the ticket, the web server needs to be updated
[07:37] <vila> spiv: and the importer restarted with care
[07:38] <spiv> vila: I guess make sure poolie knows about it, it hasn't had a priority set yet
[07:38] <vila> spiv: he knows, but he's not online now
[07:40] <vila> spiv: also, the ValueError I see (locally) doesn't seem to be related to merge proposals so I may have been wrong above or we have more than one bug
[07:40] <spiv> vila, wgrant: I notice there's a commented out line in the code to pass #reviewers=[ubuntu_dev.self_link], review_types=[""]
[07:40] <spiv> vila: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1910A1064
[07:41] <vila> spiv: commented where ?
[07:41] <wgrant> spiv: Last I saw that wasn't commented out, and didn't have review_types=[""]
[07:41] <wgrant> spiv: It was changed on 2011-03-03, IIRC.
[07:42] <spiv> vila: just grep for createMergeProposal
[07:42] <vila> spiv: not commented here (lp:udd)
[07:43] <vila> spiv: where are you looking ?
[07:44] <spiv> vila: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/udd/view/head:/import_package.py#L513
[07:45] <vila> argh james_w pushed 8-/
[07:47] <vila> spiv: anyway, given the commit dates, this has been deployed after we had the ValueErrors AFAICS
[07:48] <spiv> vila: I don't know that recent changes to that currently commented out line have caused the problem
[07:48] <spiv> vila: I do know that our call to createMergeProposal is incorrect
[07:50] <vila> spiv: given the commit messages, it looks like james_w was working on this though
[07:51] <spiv> vila: ok
[07:51] <spiv> vila: so I'll just give gst-plugins-bad0.10 a kick, as that is the one named in the OOPS
[07:52] <spiv> vila: if the current state has fixed the problem, as implied by james_w commit messages, it won't fail with that error
[07:53] <vila> spiv: trying
[07:53] <vila> spiv: don't forget to commit your delete_branch stuff by the way ;)
[07:57] <vila> spiv: just got the oops (first attempt gave a blank page), right, I was talking about a list.remove(x): x not in list, ValueError, definitively different :)
[07:59] <vila> gs-t-bad-plugins passed
[07:59] <spiv> vila: yes, the ValueError here isn't seen by the package-importer, it happens in LP and show as a HTTP 500 to the client.
[08:00] <spiv> vila: well, retry the rest I guess
[08:00] <vila> spiv: already done
[08:00] <spiv> Thanks
[08:00] <vila> spiv: thanks to you and james_w ;)
[08:02] <vila> haa, bad request again for kde-l10n-th
[08:03] <vila> spiv: you confirmed HTTP 500 or did you mean HTTP 400
[08:03] <vila> s/confirmed/confirm/
[08:03] <vila> and s/$/?/ gee
[08:04] <spiv> vila: 500
[08:07] <vila> gobject-introspection finally passed, pfew
[08:07] <spiv> vila: see bug 520412 for the LP bug an incorrect call to createMergeProposal triggers
[08:09] <vila> bah, I hate software that tells me: "Hey, your input is wrong, here is how to fix it".
[08:09] <vila> JFDI !
[08:10] <soren> vila: +1
[08:10] <soren> "Remember: The URL you enter must end with a slash!"  Uh... Just add it, if I forget, mkay?
[08:11] <spiv> vila: so long as there is 0 ambiguity about the fix, I tend to agree
[08:13] <vila> well, it used to work before right ? If the list is of the right length with '' items, it's still a valid item right ? Just default to it then no ?
[08:13] <vila> s/valid item/valid parameter/
[08:13] <spiv> vila: nothing in LP has changed here lately
[08:14] <spiv> vila: (that the bug number is in the 500000s gives a pretty strong hint about that)
[08:14] <vila> right but the bug report also says: "On the other hand this behavior is different to the behavior of the web interface, where the review type argument is optional."
[08:15] <vila> so there are some reasons to believe the behavior was desired
[08:15] <spiv> Yes, it does, but that's unrelated to "it used to work before right"
[08:15] <spiv> It's "the web UI gets it right, the API doesn't"
[08:16] <vila> no idea about that, but I'd be surprised (choked?) that this went unnoticed in the p-i for so long...
[08:17] <vila> anyway, if we can fix it in the p-i, we should
[08:18] <spiv> vila: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/udd/revision/410
[08:18] <vila> ubot5: +1 ;)
[08:19] <spiv> vila: So, it's not that it was an old bug unnoticed
[08:19] <spiv> vila: it's a new bug in udd
[08:19] <spiv> vila: a few weeks old
[08:19] <vila> :-(
[08:19] <vila> spiv: thanks for the analysis...
[08:20] <vila> spiv: and sorry for being so dense, I need more coffee ;)
[08:20]  * vila notes: stop presuming that untested code works
[08:21] <spiv> vila: no worries
[08:21]  * spiv logs off for the day
[08:22] <vila> spiv: one last thing: poolie is still having trouble with his ADSL modem right ?
[08:28] <vila> 5 babune slaves failing on bzrlib.tests.test_revisionspec.TestRevisionSpec_date.test_yesterday
[08:29] <vila> don't tell me, someone didn't fully get what DST is about ?
[08:39] <jelmer> moin
[08:50] <spiv> vila: yes
[08:51] <vila> jelmer: hi !
[08:52]  * jelmer waves to spiv and vila
[08:53] <jelmer> spiv: Did you see my review request for ~jelmer/bzr/move-interbranch-fetch2 ?
[08:53] <spiv> vila: down to 466 failures, hurrah
[08:53] <vila> spiv: yeah ;)
[08:54] <jelmer> spiv: Sorry this was necessary, my review of your fetch tags branch wasn't very good.  :-/
[08:55] <spiv> jelmer: I have, haven't looked at it closely yet
[08:55] <spiv> jelmer: I'm not sure that I like the more limited API.  I wonder about other options other branches might have.
[08:55] <spiv> fetch_loom_thread?
[08:56] <spiv> That sort of thing
[08:56] <jelmer> spiv: API users wouldn't really know what to specify in that case though
[08:56] <spiv> Although 'fetch' is a sort of weird thing to have on Branch in a sense
[08:57] <jelmer> spiv: It seems reasonable to have Branch.fetch() as a convenience wrapper around Repository.fetch
[08:57] <jelmer> spiv: yeah
[09:21] <bialix> heya
[09:22] <bialix> bonjour vila
[09:22] <vila> fullermd: wow, 10072 freebsd patches since 2011-03-09 ? Should I worry or did I just miss some important news ?
[09:22] <vila> bialix: _o/
[09:22] <bialix> vila: we don't have a dedicated 2.4 branch yet, have we?
[09:22] <vila> bialix: for bzr ? No. Not until 2.4.0
[09:23] <vila> bialix: but the series exists already nvertheless
[09:23] <bialix> ok, I need to put the news for my py2exe patch, I think I should wait till you cut out 2.4b1?
[09:23] <vila> bialix: 2.4b1 *has* been cut, I still need to announce it though
[09:24] <vila> bialix: until 2.4.0 we release from trunk
[09:24] <bialix> hmm
[09:24] <vila> bialix: https://launchpad.net/bzr/2.4/2.4b1
[09:25] <bialix> vila: ok, I see the 2.4b2 section now. most likely yesterday I've used slightly outdated truk
[09:26] <bialix> trunk
[09:26] <bialix> vila: thank you
[09:26] <vila> bialix: np
[09:28] <bialix> oh yes, forgot to update my copy of bzr.dev, heh
[09:35] <vila> fullermd: weird, ended up with .. 90 new ports/files only
[13:52] <alexKeith> hi there
[13:52] <alexKeith> i'm new to VCS and stuff
[13:53] <alexKeith> yesterday bzr commands were working fine but today i get the following error
[13:53] <alexKeith> bzr: ERROR: Connection error: while sending CONNECT xmlrpc.edge.launchpad.net:443: [Errno 110] Connection timed out
[13:53] <alexKeith> does that mean my net connection in not proper or something else?
[13:55] <jelmer> hi alexKeith
[13:55] <jelmer> alexKeith: it looks like either an issue on your side or on Launchpad's side
[13:56] <alexKeith> jelmer: in the application on the connection?
[13:57] <jelmer> alexKeith: in the connection
[13:57] <jelmer> alexKeith: I doubt it's an application issue if it worked ok earlier
[13:58] <alexKeith> jelmer: hmmm... thanks for the suggestion.. will wait a few more hours
[14:27] <lamont> so if I wanted bzr uncommit (either in a particular branch, or even machinewide if need be) to scream at the user and die horribly rather than uncommitting, is that trivial to do?
[14:31] <Peng> I suppose you could write a plugin...
[14:32] <Peng> I believe pygame is your best option for audio output. ;-)
[14:37] <vila> lamont: 'bzr alias uncommit=logout' could be a start, but since this is stored (and read only from) bazaar.conf, it will affect only a single user
[14:38] <alexKeith1> jelmer: found a 6 month old log on the same problem on launchpad channel...
[14:38] <vila> lamont: aren't you after 'append_revisions_only' on the target branch instead ?
[14:39] <alexKeith1> jelmer: though no solution is given
[14:39] <vila> lamont: 'bzr alias uncommit=logout' could be a start, but since this is stored (and read only from) bazaar.conf, it will affect only a single user
[14:39] <vila> ghaa, history editing fail
[14:40] <vila> lamont: I meant 'bzr alias uncommit=I_HATE_YOU_DONT_DO_THAT' to take screaming into account
[14:41] <lamont> vila: yeah - but I want it to affect the branch, not the user...
[14:42] <lamont> rather, I want it to affect all users of the branch, not just the one
[14:42] <vila> lamont: strictly speaking, uncommit is for the working tree, not the branch , hence append_revisions_only
[14:43] <lamont> which I suppose gets back to the whole "zomg can't have scripts in the branch, because we'd insist on copying them when you branch and that'd be bad"
[14:43] <lamont> vila: ah
[14:43] <vila> but even that can be overridden with --push --overwrite (IIRC)
[14:43] <lamont> so short answer is that there's no trivial solution to the administrative issue at hand
[14:43] <lamont> and I suppose that's ok
[14:44] <vila> lamont: I still don't clearly understand your problem :-/
[14:44] <vila> lamont: I'm sure there is a valid use case here, I just don't get it (so far)
[14:44] <lamont> vila: group of users who have become trained that bzr uncommit is perfectly reasonable, transitioning into a new use model where it is absolutely NOT reasonable, and still doing it sometimes
[14:45] <bialix> who can talk with me about lp:branches and how they becomes bzr+ssh://b.l.n/+branch URs?
[14:45] <vila> lamont: not reasonable because ?
[14:45] <lamont> vila: because the branch is actually published to other machines
[14:46] <vila> lamont: it breaks the shared branch history ?
[14:46] <lamont> vi bzr pull in a cronjob
[14:46] <lamont> via
[14:47] <vila> ha right, then, yeah, append_revisions_only, so the users are gently nudged to *add* revisions (even to revert a silly change)
[14:47] <lamont> vila:  and that's something I can set on the branch?
[14:48] <vila> lamont: yes, in branch.conf
[14:48] <lamont> oh, nice
[14:48] <vila> we should really make it the default
[14:48] <bialix> does launchpad plugin has any cheap way to decode +branch URL and extract the project name, instead of parsing the parts of URL in my code?
[14:48] <lamont> I've been told that I should never edit branch.conf directly... what's the offically blessed way (and syntax) for setting this?
[14:48] <lamont> mind you, I still frequently cat .bzr/branch/branch.conf rather than bzr info
[14:50] <vila> lamont: 'bzr  config' ?
[14:50] <lamont> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "config"
[14:50] <vila> :-/
[14:51] <vila> lamont: import from future ;  bzr config
[14:51] <vila> lamont: so, without bzr config, you need to edit manually
[14:51] <lamont> 2.2 or 2.3?
[14:51] <vila> 2.3
[14:52] <alexKeith1> jelmer: restarting solved the problem
[14:52] <lamont> and I assume 2.3 still has the "momma knows best" belief of forcing me to have run bzr whoami?
[14:52] <lamont> because breaking cronjobs is better than not breaking them, or some such
[14:52] <alexKeith1> jelmer: i had changed the proxy settings after booting and then connected as i did a few hours before
[14:52] <vila> lamont: and, when in the right dir, 'bzr config appen_revisions_only=True (http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-reference/configuration-help.html)  should work
[14:53] <alexKeith1> jelmer: so now i tried restarting and it worked
[14:53] <vila> lamont: yes
[14:53] <alexKeith1> jelmer: does this classify as a bug?
[14:53] <vila> lamont: on the other hand, we heard you and poolie is working on fixing it ;)
[14:53] <vila> lamont: should be in 2.4 (AIUI)
[14:54] <lamont> vila: yay
[14:55] <vila> bialix: the translation is done on lp, you have no way to emulate that
[14:55] <vila> bialix: what's the need ?
[14:56] <vila> bialix: jam has been playing with the xmlrpc code and should have the details in his hot cache ;)
[14:56] <lamont> afk
[14:57] <fullermd> vila: Sweep of MD5 checksums that touched files all over the place.  Kinda cosmetic/internals, so it doesn't have anything to do with needed upgrades.
[14:58]  * vila happily shudders
[14:58] <bialix> vila: we have a code in qbzr to automatically guess the project name based on lp URL
[14:59] <bialix> vila: that code does not like +branch, and I don't like it either
[14:59] <vila> bialix: just deleting it from the start should make your guesses as good as they were before
[14:59] <bialix> vila: if I do `bzr branch lp:qbzr` then I got parent URL as bzr+ssh://b.l.n/+branch/qbzr
[15:00] <vila> bialix: you know how to guess: bzr+ssh:/b.l.n/qbzr ?
[15:00] <bialix> vila: if I do `bzr get lp:qbzr/0.20` then I got parent URL as bzr+ssh://b.l.n/+branch/qbzr/0.20
[15:00] <bialix> vila: do you know how to create it?
[15:01] <vila> create what ?
[15:01] <bialix> that parent URL: bzr+ssh:/b.l.n/qbzr
[15:01] <jam> bialix: that is the wrong parent, though
[15:01] <jam> that path doesn't exist
[15:01] <jam> +branch/qbzr does
[15:01] <bialix> I've just showed you what bzr creates for different cases
[15:01] <vila> bialix: I think it doesn't exist, that's why +branch has been created
[15:01] <jam> bialix: +branch was specifically created to allow server-side expansion of lp: urls
[15:01] <vila> bialix: so lp can redirect properly
[15:01] <jam> To support private branches
[15:01] <jam> etc
[15:01] <jam> vila: no redirect
[15:02] <jam> it maps the virtual fs to include those paths
[15:02] <bialix> before it was always bzr+ssh://b.l.n/~team/project/branch
[15:02] <jam> bialix: It was about 3-6months ago Launchpad switched
[15:02] <vila> jam: yeah, redirect not in the HTTP sense, bzr+ssh is not HTTP anyway
[15:02] <jam> because XMLRPC can't expand private branches
[15:02] <jam> vila: sure, just mentioning that "cat +branch/bzr/.bzr/branch-format" is a valid thing to do in the VFS
[15:02] <bialix> jam: I need a cheap way to extract project name from new urls
[15:03] <jam> bialix: if you look at the new bzr.dev LaunchpadDirectory, you can see the basic rules
[15:03] <jam> lp:ONE
[15:03] <jam> ONE must be the project name
[15:03] <bialix> will it work locally?
[15:03] <jam> lp:ONE/TWO
[15:03] <jam> ONE is the project name, TWO is the series name
[15:03] <jam> not related to branch
[15:03] <jam> though it maps to a branch
[15:03] <jam> if there is a ~ then it must be a fully qualified path
[15:04] <jam> lp:~user/PROJECT/BRANCH
[15:04] <bialix> jam: I'm reading lp_directory.py but I don't see what can help me?
[15:04] <jam> there are a few special cases for handling "ubuntu" and "debian"
[15:04] <maxb> OR one/two is a distro/series
[15:04] <maxb> nuh-uh, they are not special casea
[15:04] <jam> maxb: one/two can only be distro/project
[15:04] <bialix> jam: I need a way to extract project name from bzr+ssh://b.l.n/something
[15:04] <jam> maxb: unless you can somehow branch an entire series
[15:05] <jam> (lp:ubuntu/bzr, for example)
[15:05] <jam> bialix: and you are trying to do it now that we have +branch syntax?
[15:06] <maxb> jam: lp:one/two can be project/series or distro/series
[15:06] <bialix> jam: right now I have to code this decoder logic directly into qbzr. if I can use some code from lp plugin then I will save my dude in the future when bzr/lp team will decide to change again
[15:06] <maxb> um, no
[15:06] <maxb> I mean...
[15:06] <maxb> jam: lp:one/two can be project/series or distro/package
[15:06] <bialix> jam: yes
[15:07] <jam> maxb: sure. But how do you know it is a distro rather than a project? By having specifically listed distros that are encoded in the lp db?
[15:07] <jam> which we can hint at, by just hard-coding the obvious ones
[15:07] <jam> aka, special cased
[15:07] <maxb> Ah, sure. Yes, the syntax doesn't tell you the type of pillar involved
[15:08] <jam> bialix: so if I do "lp:~user/project/branch" that will still be expanded to "bzr+ssh://b.lp.net/~user/project/branch" (at least at the moment)
[15:08] <jam> so you'll still want that logic
[15:08] <jam> for everything else
[15:08] <jam> bzr+ssh://b.lp.net/+branch/SOMETHING
[15:08] <jam> I would treat it as:
[15:08] <jam> parts = something.split('/')
[15:08] <jam> if len(parts) == 1:
[15:08] <jam>   project = parts[0]
[15:08] <jam> elif:
[15:09] <jam>   parts[0] in ( 'debian', 'ubuntu'):
[15:09] <jam>  # punt for now
[15:09] <jam> else:
[15:09] <jam>   project = parts[0]
[15:09] <jam> the debian/ubuntu rules are a bit complex
[15:09] <jam> because you can have
[15:09] <jam> ubuntu/bzr
[15:09] <jam> ubuntu/natty/bzr
[15:09] <jam> ubuntu/natty/bzr/branch
[15:10] <jam> I don't think you can have 'ubuntu/bzr/branch'
[15:10] <bialix> omg
[15:10] <maxb> You can't have the 4-part one
[15:10] <jam> (If you specify a branch, you have to specify the distroseries)
[15:10] <jam> maxb: ah, you have to specify the user in that case as well?
[15:10] <maxb> yes
[15:10] <jam> in which case it becomes ~user/ubuntu/natty/bzr/branch
[15:10] <maxb> I think there's a much simpler way to describe this:
[15:11] <maxb> If it starts with a ~, then it's a fully qualified unique name starting with a user
[15:11] <bialix> jam: all that stuff scaries me almost to death; may I file a feature request to add decoder into lp plugin?
[15:11] <maxb> If it does not start with a ~, then the first component is a pillar (project/distro), with a reasonable hierarchy of aliases underneath it
[15:12] <maxb> bialix: If all you want is a project name and you are willing to temporarily disregard distro package branches, then you just need to take the first component, unless it has a ~, in which case the second
[15:13] <bialix> maxb: do you mean the case bzr+ssh://b.l.n/+branch/~user/ubuntu/natty/bzr/branch ?
[15:13] <maxb> That is speaking about lp: URLs, of course. If you're working with bzr+ssh://b.l.n/ ones, then chop off that prefix, additionally chop off +branch/ if present, and stick a lp: on the front, then proceed as before
[15:14] <bialix> maxb: no, this won't work for me
[15:14] <maxb> why not?
[15:14] <bialix> maxb: I need project name to create a push url suggestion as: lp:~user/PROJECT/new-branch
[15:15] <maxb> yes?
[15:15] <maxb> I just suggested a simple algorithm to get it
[15:15] <bialix> yes, thanks, but I need project name
[15:16] <vila> bialix: that's what maxb suggested: how to get the project name
[15:16] <vila> bialix: presumably from the remember parent location
[15:16] <bialix> yes, that's exactly my case
[15:17] <vila> If you're working with bzr+ssh://b.l.n/ ones, then chop off that prefix, additionally chop off +branch/ if present, and stick a lp: on the front, then proceed as before
[15:17] <vila> citing maxb^
[15:18] <bialix> vila, maxb: before I always had only scheme://host/~user-id/project-name/branch-name/
[15:19] <bialix> I don't need to stick lp: on the front
[15:19] <bialix> today I see more cases:
[15:19] <bialix> scheme://host/+branch/project-name
[15:19] <bialix> scheme://host/+branch/project-name/series-name
[15:19] <vila> bialix: we don't know what you had :) Just adapt, may be you just need to fake a 'bzr+ssh://bl.n/+branch'
[15:20] <bialix> ok, that's enough
[15:20] <vila> .. scheme
[15:21] <vila> bialix: but keep in mind that you will always try to guess what is happening on a remote server and if things change there, you'll need to catch up anyway
[15:21] <bialix> that was my initial question: can I use launchpad plugin to do this or not
[15:22] <vila> same answer applis to the launchpad plugin: it guesses, unless it asks explicitely to lp (and even there I'm not sure it get the true branch)
[15:22] <maxb> bialix: However, given the current URL structure, getting the project is trivial: Remove "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/". Remove "+branch/" if present. Remove "~user/" if present. Next component is the project or distro
[15:23] <vila> bialix: are you trying to solve this problem in a server-agnostic way ?
[15:23] <vila> bialix: because we only answered about the lp specifics so far
[15:24] <vila> bialix: and it seems we are not all on the same page
[15:25] <bialix> vila: I'm trying to solve this problem in qbzr-unrelated way
[15:26] <vila> bialix: but in a lp-specific way ?
[15:26] <bialix> I can live with the suggested way, but if I can use lp plugin for that I'd be happy
[15:26] <bialix> vila: yes, for generic case we have different code
[15:26] <bialix> I can point you to the real code, if you wish
[15:27] <maxb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/586468/
[15:27] <maxb> I have just typed up a quick refcard to the various URL forms ^^^
[15:28] <vila> bialix: AFAIK, the lp plugin doesn't provide such a feature, but this sounds like a good one to add
[15:29] <bialix> maxb: what should I use for distro/package then?
[15:29] <vila> bialix: so file a wishlist bug and add a patch or a pointer to your implementation
[15:29] <vila> bialix: if you want to propose a push location, you should probably respect dsitro/package
[15:30] <vila> bialix: and in most cases *add* ~user if not already there as I think most users *can't* push to the official branch
[15:30] <vila> maxb: isn't it ? ^
[15:30] <bialix> maxb: qbzr intent is to provide suggestion for push of feature branch back to lp. so if one have lp:ubuntu/bzr what should be suggested URL for new branch?
[15:31] <maxb> vila: Mostly not, no.
[15:31] <maxb> bialix: lp:~user/ubuntu/current-ubuntu-development-series/bzr/somename
[15:31] <bialix> vila, maxb: again, please look: if I have project-name, and I know local user name, then suggestion will be: lp:~user-name/project-name/new-branch-name
[15:32] <maxb> Yes
[15:32] <vila> and that's good for upstream branches (AIUI) not for packaging branches
[15:33] <bialix> so? should I ignore any attempts to suggest URL for distro or not?
[15:33] <maxb> 15:30 < bialix> maxb: qbzr intent is to provide suggestion for push of feature branch back to lp. so if one have lp:ubuntu/bzr what should be suggested URL for new branch?
[15:33] <maxb> 15:31 < maxb> bialix: lp:~user/ubuntu/current-ubuntu-development-series/bzr/somename
[15:33] <bialix> vila: http://paste.ubuntu.com/586468/
[15:33] <bialix> DISTRO/SOURCEPACKAGE, DISTRO/SERIES/SOURCEPACKAGE, DISTRO/POCKET/SOURCEPACKAGE ?
[15:34] <bialix> what will be "project-name" here?
[15:34] <maxb> THERE IS NO PROJECT NAME
[15:34] <bialix> what is "current-ubuntu-development-series"?
[15:34] <maxb> The name of the current ubuntu development series
[15:35] <maxb> natty, for now. Later it will be oneiric
[15:35] <vila> bialix: PROJECTNAME ~= SOURCEPACKAGE (/me runs before maxb yells)
[15:35]  * maxb wonders what kind of operator ~= is :-?
[15:35] <vila> bialix: the difference is that a "project* can be the source for several packages
[15:36] <vila> maxb: the handwavy version of = :D
[15:36] <maxb> well, it could be, but yuck. It nearly never is
[15:36] <maxb> (one project multiple packages, that is)
[15:36] <vila> maxb: right, but in bialix case it would be what his code recognize as project name in the parent location
[15:37] <vila> hence the hand wave
[15:37] <maxb> Well, for bialix' specific use case it's more like PROJECTNAME ~= DISTRO/SERIES/SOURCEPACKAGE
[15:38] <vila> maxb: oh ! Certainly ! (The handwavy operators are very welcoming operators ;)
[15:39]  * maxb needs to step afk for a bit, back later
[15:39] <bialix> I'm going to blacklist distro case, it drives me crazy. no need to yell, I'm not totally stupid, just a bit
[15:39] <vila> :-D
[15:40] <vila> the distro/series/sourcepackage is certainly hard to grasp
[15:46] <bialix> distro can be only [ubuntu, debian], right?
[15:47] <vila> bialix: so far, and AIUI, yes
[15:50] <bialix> vila, maxb, jam: what I have in the end: http://paste.ubuntu.com/586484/
[15:52] <jam> bialix: do you care to support "bazaar.qastaging.launchpad.net" and those variants?
[15:53] <bialix> jam: should I?
[15:53] <jam> it also looks like you aren't handling "lp:ubuntu/bzr" but that's up to you
[15:53] <jam> bialix: none of those are long-term available (if you push data there, it gets wiped later)
[15:53] <jam> people use it for testing
[15:53] <bialix> jam: I don't understand how to handle distros case
[15:54] <bialix> jam: that check for host has been written by Ian, I'll be happy to extend it if you teach me
[15:55] <jam> well, it looks like he was trying to support "qastaging.bazaar.launchpad.net" but that isn't how it is actually spelled
[15:56] <jelmer> jam: interesting to read that performance analysis...
[15:59] <jam> bialix: http://paste.ubuntu.com/586487/
[15:59] <jam> handles DISTRO and special launchpad servers
[15:59] <jam> jelmer: the twisted stuff?
[15:59] <jelmer> jam: yeah
[16:00] <jam> jelmer: it is a bit tricky to dig in. For some reason Twisted is breaking cProfile/lsprof linking
[16:00] <jam> so you see "A called B", but a *different* "B' called C"
[16:00] <jam> works ok in text mode, but KCacheGrind doesn't give nice graphs
[16:01] <jam> jelmer: I originally wasn't sure how much to pull on this, but it certainly yielded some interesting results
[16:01] <jelmer> jam: Yeah, indeed. It looks like there is a lot of time to be gained here.
[16:02] <jam> 30ms local operation becoming 500ms seemed like something worth poking at
[16:10] <bialix> jam: thanks
[16:21] <CaMason> can a bzr branch operate/exist without a working copy?
[16:24] <CaMason> ah `bzr remove-tree`
[16:34] <jelmer> yep
[16:34] <jelmer> or, if you didn't want to create the tree in the first place: bzr branch --no-tree