[08:36] <lordievader> Good morning.
[13:09] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[16:28] <lfaraone> Is something strange with Perl in Vivid right now?
[16:28] <lfaraone> dpkg-preconfigure and a bunch of maintscripts are all failing, SIGSEV while "writing NULL VMA"
[16:28] <lfaraone> e.g. deb-systemd-helper crashed with SIGSEGV in Perl_finalize_optree()
[21:38] <holms> Hello :) It is possible to upgrade 14.10 to 15.04?
[21:38] <holms> There's no option to install it from iso
[21:38] <holms> But there's option to get into recovery console if needed
[21:38] <holms> And snapshot vm for later usage
[21:38] <k1l> do-release-upgrade -d
[21:38] <holms> thanks - trying
[21:39] <Jordan_U> k1l: I thought that 15.04 had already switched to sytemd by default. Is that not the case?
[21:39] <holms> seems to be manual permanent switch is possible in there
[21:39] <k1l> Jordan_U: i am not sure. i had no time to spin up to 15.04 so far
[21:45] <Jordan_U> holms: I don't understand your last message.
[21:47] <holms> Jordan_U: link k1l gaved me, writes that you can switch from upstart to systemd, for single boot, and permenantly
[23:13] <Jordan_U> Indeed, from looking at the liveCD squashfs, /bin/init is still a symlink to upstart rather than systemd.
[23:19] <hggdh> the default still is (or was, until a few days ago) upstart. On grub you can select a boot fully under systemd (single boot), or you can install a few packages and move completely to systemd
[23:23] <hggdh> I did that, and now I have /sbin/init -> /lib/systemd/systemd


[14:59] <bdmurray> o/
[15:00] <schopin> o/
[15:00] <waveform> o/
[15:00] <juliank> o/
[15:00] <dbungert> o/
[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:00] <jawn-smith> o/
[15:01] <bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:01:00 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:01] <bdmurray> #topic Lightning Round
[15:01] <ginggs> o/
[15:01] <mclemenceau> o/
[15:01] <bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray vorlon sil2100 mwhudson juliank waveform slyon jawn-smith dbungert xypron ginggs schopin alexghiti)
[15:01] <bdmurray> schopin ginggs waveform alexghiti dbungert bdmurray slyon vorlon sil2100 juliank xypron jawn-smith mwhudson doko
[15:01] <schopin> * openssl:
[15:01] <schopin>   + Composed and published our plans for the upcoming OpenSSL 3 transition:
[15:02] <schopin>     https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/openssl-3-0-transition-plans/24453
[15:02] <schopin>     (also in your ubuntu-devel@ inboxes as of a few minutes ago)
[15:02] <schopin>   + Filed bugs against all packages in main failing to build against openssl3,
[15:02] <schopin>     including preliminary investigation into upstream status on the issue:
[15:02] <schopin>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=transition-openssl3-jj
[15:02] <schopin> * netplan:
[15:02] <schopin>   + Added the ability to remove an entire devtype from the configuration
[15:02] <schopin>     (LP: #1942930, PR 236)
[15:02] <schopin>   + Reviewed PR 238 for slyon (still ongoing)
[15:02] <schopin>   + Prepared SRUs for LP: #1942930 and LP: #1943120
[15:02] <schopin>   + Continued ongoing work on reworking libnetplan's API, see PRs 232 and 233
[15:02] <schopin>
[15:02] <schopin> (done)
[15:02] <ginggs> * been busy with second impish test rebuild https://people.canonical.com/~ginggs/ftbfs-report/test-rebuild-20210927-impish-impish.html
[15:02] <ginggs> * looking at sqlalchemy FTBFS LP: #1939346
[15:02] <ginggs> * preparing for test rebuild with Python 3.10 as a supported version
[15:02] <ginggs> (done)
[15:03] <bdmurray> waveform:
[15:03] <waveform> * Finish functionality (but not yet docs/tests) of built-in-ubuntu (previously built-before) script (https://code.launchpad.net/~waveform/ubuntu-dev-tools/+git/ubuntu-dev-tools/+ref/built-before)
[15:03] <waveform> * Sense HAT packages uploaded (many thanks to sil2100) (LP: #1944449, LP: #1944450)
[15:03] <waveform> * Finished investigation of HDMI display output failure in impish and hirsute (LP: #1944397)
[15:03] <waveform> * Worked on reproduction case for HDMI display freezes in impish kernel (LP: #1946368)
[15:03] <waveform> * Tested fkms workaround consequences for ^^ including with upstream kernels
[15:03] <waveform> * Tested firmware upgrades for hirsute and impish with relation to ^^ (no requirement on hirsute, anecdotal improvement on impish)
[15:03] <waveform> * Prepared do-release-upgrade workaround to force fkms
[15:03] <waveform> * Prepared pi-gadget adjustment to force fkms (but only on impish builds)
[15:03] <waveform> * Pi meetings
[15:03] <waveform> (done)
[15:03] <alexghiti> Reset in unmatched still under discussion
[15:03] <alexghiti> Pocl package fails to build caused by LLVM-9 upgrade? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pocl/+bug/1946202
[15:03] <alexghiti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unoconv/+bug/1946232
[15:03] <alexghiti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lyricue/+bug/1946224
[15:03] <alexghiti> mesa-opencl-icd riscv64 reverted because LLVM JIT riscv is not supported yet https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/1942764
[15:03] <alexghiti> kexec/kdump tools review/test: https://github.com/riscv-collab/kexec-tools/tree/riscv
[15:03] <alexghiti> (done)
[15:04] <dbungert> * livecd-rootfs vs u-d-i: A bug submitter on a different issue noted problems
[15:04] <dbungert> installing packages.  I traced it to LP: #1945831
[15:04] <dbungert> * subiquity core20: finish work mwhudson started and get it operational.  about
[15:04] <dbungert> half the size (25MB vs 55MB), almost entirely due to libicudata not being
[15:04] <dbungert> included (26MB file).
[15:04] <dbungert> * subiquity storage/v2: get a working usable first chunk, merged to main.
[15:04] <dbungert> Includes 2x the size of the actual changes in API-level tests.  Continuing on
[15:04] <dbungert> a follow-on branch to address feedback items.
[15:04] <dbungert> * subiquity: write release notes for 21.10.1 release
[15:04] <dbungert> * subiquity: CI - workaround impish daily networking being bad
[15:04] <dbungert> * +1 crowdsec: can fix FTBFS by change to docker to no longer ship the vendored
[15:04] <dbungert> source directory in golang-github-docker-docker-dev, which requires a
[15:04] <dbungert> mini-transition build depends fix on 7 packages.  LP: #1946376
[15:04] <dbungert> * +1 rust-alacritty-terminal: removed (LP: #1946008)
[15:04] <dbungert> * +1 rust-proc-macro2: investigating
[15:04] <dbungert> (done)
[15:04] <sil2100> bdmurray: ^
[15:04] <bdmurray> reported LP: #1945015
[15:04] <bdmurray> sru-verification of LP: #1944475
[15:04] <bdmurray> iso testing for the Beta
[15:04] <bdmurray> built new desktop canary image
[15:05] <bdmurray> reviews of uploads for impish
[15:05] <bdmurray> created a bug for the tzdata update (LP: #1945527)
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded tzdata for II, HH, FF, BB, X
[15:05] <bdmurray> sru-verification of tzdata update LP: #1945527
[15:05] <bdmurray> submitted PR re autopkgtest building EoL VMs
[15:05] <bdmurray> submitted an MP re ubuntu-archive-tools and sru-review for devel release
[15:05] <bdmurray> built a server image for IoT project
[15:05] <bdmurray> updated livecd-rootfs w/ a fix for focal server image building
[15:05] <bdmurray> fixed an issue with apport's autopkgtests and /proc/sys/kernel/core_uses_pid
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded tzdata for ESM releases (trusty, xenial)
[15:05] <bdmurray> uploaded distro-info-data for impish
[15:05] <bdmurray> that's really two weeks of status minus some holidays
[15:05] <bdmurray> slyon:
[15:05] <slyon> - Interview
[15:05] <slyon> - netplan discussions on debian-devel
[15:05] <slyon> - upload systemd 248.3-1ubuntu8, LP: #1942899, LP: #1942113, cgroup v2 cleanup
[15:05] <slyon> - upload netplan.io 0.103-0ubuntu7, LP: #1942930
[15:05] <slyon> - updated snapd PR#10212 now that netplan bionic SRU landed, LP: #1926442
[15:05] <slyon> - sponsored netplan.io SRUs (Hirsute & Focal) for schopin
[15:05] <slyon> - roadmap discussions around systemd & netplan
[15:05] <slyon> [15:05] <slyon> - Testing and fixing smaller issues with core20/edge vs netplan 0.103 vs NM
[15:05] <slyon>   + https://github.com/canonical/netplan/pull/238
[15:05] <slyon>   + https://code.launchpad.net/~slyon/snappy-hwe-snaps/+git/network-manager/+merge/409679
[15:05] <slyon> - prepared https://github.com/canonical/netplan/pull/235 (glib 2.70 compatibility)
[15:05] <slyon> - reviewed https://github.com/canonical/netplan/pull/237
[15:05] <slyon> - review & merged https://github.com/canonical/netplan/pull/236, pending SRU
[15:05] <slyon> - starting to enable tests in Debian (incompatiblities with ifupdonw/resolvconf)
[15:05] <slyon>   + working on Debian v0.103 merge
[15:05] <slyon> (done)
[15:06] <vorlon>  * proposed-migration: focused on identifying and fixing bottlenecks in the britney runs, to fix longstanding concerns about the rate of iteration in Ubuntu (LP: #1904880)
[15:06] <vorlon>    * fixed some bottlenecks related to the large number of hints in use; the hints implementation was not designed to be scalable
[15:06] <vorlon>    * identified some wasteful reports that were broken and haven't been used in 5 years, so stopped generating them
[15:06] <vorlon>    * downloading of autopkgtest results from swift is NOT a chokepoint
[15:06] <vorlon>    * reduced proposed-migration iterations with the most recent set of packages in -proposed from ~1h30m to ~30m
[15:06] <vorlon>    * will be looking some more now that there are a lot more packages in -proposed, to see if we have any different bottlenecks worth examining
[15:06] <vorlon>  * tzdata SRU reviews
[15:06] <vorlon> (done)
[15:06] <sil2100> * Catching up after 2-week vacation
[15:06] <sil2100> * A LOT of queue reviews for impish
[15:06] <sil2100> * Hint reviews
[15:06] <sil2100> * NEW reviews of sense-hat packages
[15:06] <sil2100> * 21.10:
[15:06] <sil2100>   - Prepared tracking document
[15:06] <sil2100>   - Coordinated langpacks, webteam and release notes prep
[15:06] <sil2100>   - Updated ubiquity translations, poked Michael about DDTP updates
[15:07] <sil2100> * ubuntu-cdimage simplestreams:
[15:07] <sil2100>   - Improved the test story
[15:07] <sil2100>   - Found a few more edge cases but now on the right track
[15:07] <sil2100> * Discussions with the Ubuntu Core team
[15:07] <sil2100> * Discussion with UC and Launchpad about future coreXX series bootstrapping
[15:07] <sil2100> * Debugging core22 build issues on impish - requires a new snapd
[15:07] <sil2100>   - Added workaround to use the edge snapd during build
[15:07] <sil2100> * Adding bionic and focal to the ESM britney handling, fix weird utf-8 crash
[15:07] <sil2100> * ubuntu-image roadmap discussions
[15:07] <sil2100> (done)
[15:07] <juliank> Oct 07:
[15:07] <juliank> * reviewed shims
[15:07] <juliank>   - ACK Rocky Linux 8 (https://github.com/rhboot/shim-review/issues/194)
[15:07] <juliank>   - NAK AmZetta (https://github.com/rhboot/shim-review/issues/211)
[15:07] <juliank>   - NAK NComputing (https://github.com/rhboot/shim-review/issues/206)
[15:07] <juliank>   - NAK CBL-D (https://github.com/rhboot/shim-review/issues/203)
[15:07] <juliank> * merged a pull request from chriscoulson
[15:07] <juliank> * reviewed https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/-/merge_requests/185 on IRC
[15:07] <juliank> * further grub2 initrdfail work for bionic LP: #1925507, LP: #1929860, LP: #1901553
[15:08] <juliank> (done)
[15:08] <xypron> #1945807 bbrun: build failure on RISC-V -> debdiff created - to be changed in Debian first
[15:08] <xypron> #1945803 a2jmidid: building on RISC-V fails -> debdiff created - to be changed in Debian first
[15:08] <xypron> #1945787 heimdal: fails to build, symbols don't match -> fix released
[15:08] <xypron> Analyzed GRUB TFTP failure: patches sent upstream (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2021-10/msg00028.html)

[15:08] <jawn-smith> * Hinted sshuttle so openssh finally migrated \o/
[15:08] <jawn-smith> * Investigated sshuttle failure but haven't narrowed down a cause
[15:08] <jawn-smith> * Re-write ubuntu-image in Go:
[15:08] <jawn-smith>     * All states written!
[15:08] <jawn-smith>     * Manually testing many scenarios (pc-amd64/classic, core18, core20, raspi)
[15:08] <jawn-smith>     * Big code cleanup and adding testing asserters for cleaner test functions and duplicate code reduction
[15:08] <jawn-smith>     * Still writing test cases, currently over 99% test coverage
[15:08] <jawn-smith>     * Expect to open a PR today
[15:08] <jawn-smith>     * Adding new --validation flag per pedronis' PR to the python ubuntu-image
[15:08] <jawn-smith> [done]
[15:09] <bdmurray> doko:
[15:09] <doko> - had to take a vacation day on Wed for some errands
[15:09] <doko> - no-change uploads for zstd compression, fixing some fallout
[15:09] <doko> (done)
[15:10] <bdmurray> are there any questions on status?
[15:10] <bdmurray> #topic Release Incoming Bugs
[15:10] <bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ii-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[15:11] <bdmurray> bug 1945848
[15:12] <vorlon> this should be fixed please ;)
[15:12] <vorlon> some day we'll have a flutter installer and all will be well with desktop settings
[15:12] <vorlon> in the meantime...
[15:13] <sil2100> eeek
[15:13] <bdmurray> okay, so let's target it and card it
[15:13] <sil2100> Yes
[15:13] <bdmurray> Who'd be a good candidate to work on this?
[15:13] <vorlon> any volunteers?
[15:13] <sil2100> I could take a look, will pull in Gunnar
[15:13] <vorlon> I have opinions but not necessarily the time
[15:13] <sil2100> Together we will be invincible
[15:14] <vorlon> as long as sil2100 has the time, given that he's also on point for the release
[15:15] <bdmurray> bug 1231091
[15:15] <vorlon> that's a rather low bug number
[15:15] <bdmurray> I thought we'd talked about it before
[15:15] <vorlon> I therefore doubt it's legit and there should've been a new bug report opened for any current issues
[15:16] <bdmurray> No, its a legit issue but one we decided wasn't really fixable
[15:16] <vorlon> oh
[15:17] <bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1231091/comments/9
[15:18] <bdmurray> we'll pass on that one
[15:18] <bdmurray> bug 1943077
[15:19] <dbungert> snapd snapcraft has a fix for this, but the latest snapd upload still has the same adt failure.  Perhaps the deb package portion needs a fix also.
[15:20] <vorlon> so likely no action here for Foundations prior to release?
[15:21] <sil2100> Yeah, I know this one, this was actually the source of the core22 build issues on impish we've been seeing
[15:21] <dbungert> tag was added with https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1943077/comments/7
[15:21] <dbungert> is that portion of the problem release critical?
[15:22] <vorlon> there is snapd in -proposed, does it fix this?
[15:22] <dbungert> sadly not, unless you snap refresh snapd from edge
[15:22] <vorlon> it's the new release they cut
[15:22] <vorlon> hmm
[15:23] <slyon> in that comment #7 it says: snap (at "/snap/snapd/current") is older ("2.51.7") than distribution package ("2.53~pre1.git19b68f708")
[15:23] <vorlon> well, unless someone thinks there are fixes needed still to squashfs-tools we should pass on this
[15:23] <slyon> so it's probably unrelated to the deb
[15:23] <dbungert> I don't believe squashfs-tools changes are needed
[15:23] <bdmurray> okay so moving on then
[15:23] <bdmurray> bug 1943816
[15:24] <vorlon> dbungert: do you want to follow up with the snapd team to check if this is supposed to be released to stable before we cut release images?
[15:24] <dbungert> ack
[15:24] <vorlon> I know I discussed this one previously, and suggested we want tseliot to look at it
[15:24] <vorlon> as the primary maintainer of that package
[15:25] <bdmurray> it is assigned to him
[15:25] <vorlon> can someone reach out to him (on European time) and check if he's working on fixing it for release?
[15:26] <ginggs> i can do that
[15:26] <vorlon> thanks
[15:26] <bdmurray> oh bug 1944519 was already carded
[15:27] <bdmurray> I'll have a look at that today
[15:27] <bdmurray> #link https://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-hh-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[15:27] <bdmurray> that's empty
[15:27] <bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[15:27] <bdmurray> is also empty
[15:28] <mclemenceau> This bug was brought up to our attention LP: #1946001
[15:29] <bdmurray> The release team is aware of this
[15:29] <bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[15:29] <mclemenceau> ok excellent
[15:29] <vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[15:29] <vorlon> apport is blocking glibc, bdmurray is hinting that
[15:30] <vorlon> sbcl is confusing, it seems to be a genuine regression but we're not sure why
[15:30] <vorlon> if anyone here wants to dig into that, more eyes wouldn't hurt
[15:30] <bdmurray> what is sbcl?
[15:30] <vorlon> a lisp interpreter
[15:30] <vorlon> southwestern bell common lisp
[15:31] <vorlon> I am amused by the backtrace, "Running (SLEEP :PRETTY-MUCH-FOREVER)" --> timed out
[15:31] <bdmurray> ginggs: ?
[15:32] <vorlon> anyway, systemd vs linux-aws is bound to be the kernel issue described above, so ignoring
[15:32] <ginggs> sure
[15:32] <vorlon> we're close to release, so let's go a bit further into the 'not yet late' packages
[15:32] <vorlon> systemd: slyon are you working on resolving the autopkgtest regressions?
[15:32] <slyon> yes.
[15:33] <slyon> snapd is the libgcc_s issue
[15:33] <slyon> docker might be regressed in release. I will double check both of that and file hints if needed
[15:33] <vorlon> slyon: so are you proposing an override hint for snapd?
[15:34] <vorlon> libdrm, not our upload; I'm hitting retry just to see and will follo wup
[15:34] <slyon> vorlon: probably yes. dbungert: how did you handle that issue in the past? You hinted it, right?
[15:34] <dbungert> slyon: we skiptested the other packages, not snapd directly
[15:34] <vorlon> doko: lvm2 is xnox's upload to fix your previous ftbfs upload, do you want to look at this?
[15:34] <slyon> ok
[15:35] <bdmurray> docker had / has a hint
[15:35] <dbungert> at the time snapd still had the cgroupv2 issue so I considered that test failure vs systemd to be legit
[15:35] <bdmurray> oh, just not for amd64
[15:35] <vorlon> and the rest of the packages on this list are the packages doko uploaded today, so done
[15:35] <doko> ugh, I'll give it a try
[15:38] <vorlon> bdmurray: back to you
[15:38] <bdmurray> #topic AOB
[15:39] <bdmurray> Monday is a US holiday but I'm not taking it because its release week!
[15:39] <vorlon> I am taking Monday however
[15:39] <schopin> ... whereas I'm taking Friday which is NOT a French holiday ;-)
[15:40] <jawn-smith> I'm doing the same as bdmurray: swapping Monday for Friday
[15:40] <dbungert> I'm swapping Monday for I don't know what yet
[15:41] <vorlon> eka-Veteran's day
[15:42] <bdmurray> okay, thanks everbody
[15:42] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[15:42] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 15:42:29 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-10-07-15.01.moin.txt
[15:44] <sil2100> o/
[15:45] <slyon> o/
[17:53] <Kilos> evening all
[19:56] <bashfulrobot> 👋
[20:00] <fenris> hello @all
[20:01] <Wild_Man> hello fenris
[20:01] <Kilos> greetings
[20:02] <galgalesh> Hi all
[20:02] <galgalesh> I tried to login as merlijn-sebrechts but I keep getting "invalid credentials"
[20:02] <fenris> hi @galgalesh
[20:02] <Kilos> aha
[20:02] <galgalesh> Even though I'm pretty sure I registered it on libera.chat
[20:02] <Wild_Man> Hello, I need a minute to adjust my notes since you are here with a different nick
[20:03] <Kilos> hi galgalesh
[20:03] <diddledani> 👋🏻
[20:03] <madhens> o/
[20:03] <galgalesh> I updated my launchpad profile to also include galgalesh: https://launchpad.net/~merlijn-sebrechts
[20:04] <Wild_Man> I have not chaired in a while so I may be a little slow
[20:04] <Kilos> hi madhens
[20:04] <diddledani> no worries :-)
[20:04] <Wild_Man> Is eveeryone ready to get started?
[20:04] <diddledani> yup
[20:04] <madhens> Yees
[20:05] <Kilos> yip
[20:05] <galgalesh> yes
[20:05] <Wild_Man> #startmeeting 20:00 UTC Membership Board Meeting
[20:05] <meetingology> Meeting started at 20:05:23 UTC.  The chair is Wild_Man.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[20:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[20:05] <bashfulrobot> hey galgalesh - welcome!
[20:06] <galgalesh> o/
[20:06] <Wild_Man> Hello and welcome to the Membership Board meeting!
[20:06] <Wild_Man> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards. We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting.
[20:06] <Wild_Man> If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off. The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
[20:06] <Wild_Man> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
[20:06] <Wild_Man> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
[20:07] <Wild_Man> You've signed the code of conduct. Did you understand everything it said and do you agree to abide by the spirit of the code of conduct?
[20:07] <galgalesh> yes
[20:07] <Wild_Man> #topic galgalesh
[20:08]  * diddledani pokenprod the bot
[20:08] <Wild_Man> galgalesh , please introduce yourself to the board, and share a link to your LP and wiki
[20:08]  * fenris pong the bot
[20:08] <Wild_Man> It's a sleep
[20:08] <diddledani> wiki/forum post
[20:09] <Wild_Man> Yes thanks diddledani
[20:09] <diddledani> we're still getting used to having applications via the forum :-)
[20:09] <galgalesh> Hi all! My name is Merlijn Sebrechts. I'm a contributor from Belgium. Today I'm mostly active in the snapcraft community, being a core member of snapcrafters and maintaining a bunch of desktop snaps. I used to be active in the Yaru project and the charms.reactive project.
[20:09] <galgalesh> This is my discourse post: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/merlijn-membership-application/24005
[20:10] <Kilos> i quite fancy the discourse thing
[20:10] <diddledani> thanks, galgalesh , and hi :-)
[20:10] <galgalesh> =D
[20:11] <Wild_Man> Thanks galgalesh, please give us a few minutes to review
[20:11] <diddledani> so, now you're a cyborg, are you more, or less, concerned about skynet? ;-p
[20:12] <fenris> previous applicant writing on their wiki .. but our cyborg here write his stories on discourse :) .. fancied
[20:12] <galgalesh> Oof, good question! I think I'm more concerned now that I've given part of my essential primary functions are done using technology.
[20:12] <fenris> maybe @galgalesh can continue to be snapcrafter cyborg
[20:13] <fenris> or charmer cyborg
[20:13] <bashfulrobot> I can't lie, I started the Krita snap wayyyyyyy back in the day before others took it over, so if galgalesh is the maintainer now, it's almost an instant vote for me. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: That thing was a pain back then.....
[20:13] <bashfulrobot> But to be serious, it looks like you have a really strong application. It is interesting to see how you have moved between different components of the Canonical ecosystem (snaps, juju, yaru, etc) . It's great to see someone staying in the ecosystem, even if interests have changed.
[20:13] <diddledani> I love that you've got a varied portfolio of contributions. Are you likely to go back to juju or charms, or are you mostly focusing on snapcraft (like me)?
[20:13] <bashfulrobot> this! 👆
[20:14] <galgalesh> I'm mostly staying in snapcraft. My contributions to charms was mostly professionally oriented, but that focus has shifted to Kubernetes. Now we just use charms to kickstart k8s. :)
[20:15] <fenris> sorry to ask, how many krita got on snap .. i can only see 1 .. but its published by krita
[20:15] <diddledani> that makes sense :-)
[20:15] <bashfulrobot> I'm just getting started there myself professionally
[20:15] <fenris> maybe someone can enlighten me
[20:15] <Wild_Man> galgalesh, do you have plans to broaden your contributions in the community to include helping answer questions in your free time?
[20:15] <galgalesh> Yes, I'm a contributor to the snap published by Krita.
[20:15] <bashfulrobot> Well it is likely that Krita was started in the snapcrafter org, then moved successfully into the Krita org.
[20:16] <bashfulrobot> That
[20:16] <fenris> +1 to @bashfulrobot for @galgalesh contribution to snaps, juju, yaru and etc
[20:16] <diddledani> not yet, fenris ;-p
[20:16] <bashfulrobot> is usually the goal of a snap being  started in snapcrafters, help them build, and hopefully they take over.
[20:16] <fenris> diddledani: not voting .. just to 2nd what @bashfulrobot said earlier
[20:16] <fenris> :)
[20:17]  * diddledani whistles nonchalantly
[20:17] <fenris> @bashfulrobot duly noted
[20:17]  * bashfulrobot sees what you did there
[20:18] <galgalesh> Wild_Man interesting question! I'm happy to teach others, although I'm not sure what the best format is. I used to be active on AskUbuntu but I stopped after some unpleasant experiences with other community members there.
[20:18] <diddledani> you've got a hefty score on AskUbuntu!
[20:18] <bashfulrobot> galgalesh: with you planned improvements to desktop snaps, is the idea to be QT focused, or more in general (other toolkits, and the desktop in general)
[20:18] <bashfulrobot> diddledani: you beat me to clicking the link
[20:18] <bashfulrobot> heh
[20:18] <Wild_Man> galgalesh, I understand I have not had the time to help on Ask Ubuntu in a long time now
[20:19] <Wild_Man> I did review your contributions there yesterday
[20:20] <galgalesh> I would really like to improve the QT situation specifically, since that still has some pain points. I also would really like to get a better toolkit for snapping 32-bit and gtk-2 apps. Next to that, I'm maintaining and improving sommelier-core to make it easier to snap Windows applications. Might be a bit controversial though ;)
[20:21] <diddledani> sommelier is awesome
[20:21] <bashfulrobot> no judgement here. right tool/right job
[20:21] <bashfulrobot> 👍
[20:21] <Wild_Man> You have your hands full
[20:21] <Wild_Man> Ready to vote?
[20:21] <galgalesh> My ambitions are always bigger than my available time '=D
[20:21] <diddledani> apart from myself, galgalesh seems to be the most active person in the Snapcrafters
[20:22]  * bashfulrobot kicks the dirt in shame
[20:22] <Wild_Man> Mine to galgalesh
[20:22] <Kilos> i am impressed
[20:22] <diddledani> I'm ready
[20:22]  * fenris ready
[20:22] <Wild_Man> #voters Wild_Man diddledan bashfulrobot fenris Kilos
[20:22] <meetingology> Warning: 'diddledan' not in channel
[20:22] <meetingology> Current voters: Kilos, Wild_Man, bashfulrobot, diddledan, fenris
[20:22] <diddledani> hah. you got my old nick
[20:22] <Wild_Man> #voters Wild_Man diddledani bashfulrobot fenris Kilos
[20:22] <meetingology> Current voters: Kilos, Wild_Man, bashfulrobot, diddledan, diddledani, fenris
[20:22] <galgalesh> ooof.mp3
[20:23] <diddledani> +1 was there ever any doubt about my vote?
[20:23] <Wild_Man> #vote galgalesh  membership
[20:23] <meetingology> Please vote on: galgalesh  membership
[20:23] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
[20:23] <diddledani> +1 was there ever any doubt about my vote?
[20:23] <meetingology> +1 was there ever any doubt about my vote? received from diddledani
[20:23] <Wild_Man> +1
[20:23] <meetingology> +1 received from Wild_Man
[20:23] <bashfulrobot> +1
[20:23] <meetingology> +1 received from bashfulrobot
[20:23] <fenris> +1
[20:23] <meetingology> +1 received from fenris
[20:23] <Kilos> definite +1 Keep up the good work
[20:23] <bashfulrobot> easy plus 1
[20:23] <Kilos> +1
[20:23] <meetingology> +1 received from Kilos
[20:24] <diddledani> that'll do it
[20:24] <bashfulrobot> weeelllcccommmeeeee.
[20:24] <galgalesh> \o/
[20:24] <madhens> \o/ Congrats!
[20:24] <galgalesh> \O/
[20:24] <bashfulrobot> 🎉
[20:24] <Kilos> welcome onboard
[20:24]  * diddledani waits for the bot confirmation
[20:24] <fenris> congratulation and welcome onboard @galgalesh
[20:24] <Wild_Man> #endvote
[20:24] <meetingology> Voting ended on: galgalesh  membership
[20:24] <meetingology> Votes for: 5, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0
[20:24] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:25] <Wild_Man> Sorry guys I had a computer issue
[20:25] <diddledani> congratulations!
[20:25] <Kilos> np
[20:25] <Wild_Man> Welcome galgalesh
[20:25] <diddledani> don't forget to apply for your certificate once we've got you added to ~ubuntumembers on launchpad: https://forms.canonical.com/certificate/
[20:25] <Wild_Man> I am using a virtual machine and sometimes it acts up
[20:26] <Wild_Man> #endmeeting
[20:26] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 20:26:23 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-10-07-20.05.moin.txt
[20:26] <madhens> There's still a biiiit of a delay on the certificates but Claire and I are working on it!
[20:26] <galgalesh> Thanks! How does the email address work?
[20:26]  * diddledani hugs madhens
[20:27] <bashfulrobot> Good meeting all
[20:27] <Wild_Man> galgalesh, it takes about 48 hours after being added to the team
[20:27] <diddledani> the email will activate within 24-48 hours after you're added to ~ubuntumembers - make sure you do *not* set it as your primary launchpad email because that will cause a black holing loop
[20:27] <madhens> Great job, everyone!
[20:28] <diddledani> madhens: now to go find more lambs for the ^H^H^H applicants for membership
[20:28] <Wild_Man> Thank madhens we all appreciate what you do for the community
[20:29] <Kilos> thank you again madhens
[20:29] <fenris> thanks madhens
[20:30] <madhens> Heeee, Dani, I know we have some to round up. And thank you, everyone! Team works make the dream work, and welcome again, galgalesh, to the Ubuntu Members! :)
[20:34] <fenris> added galgalesh to Ubuntu Members team , welcome on board once again!
[20:38] <Kilos> i dont know if anyone needs to tell him about the ubuntu cloak
[20:38] <madhens> At least it's not a Canonical cloak *shudders*
[20:38] <Kilos> and mails
[20:40] <sarnold> and meeting invites
[20:46] <Kilos> night everyone.
[20:46] <madhens> Night all, and thanks again!


[07:21] <Private_User> hello people
[07:22] <IQman> Private_User: hi
[07:22] <Kilos> morning all
[07:22] <Private_User> anybody here know how to solve the issue of Lubuntu not shutting down when trying to shut down, it just reboots
[07:23] <Private_User> Kilos, and I have tried quite a few solutions still nothing
[07:23] <Private_User> hi IQman
[07:23] <Kilos> using 12.04 lubuntu
[07:52] <sirr> Anyone got lubuntu 13.10 x64 running properly with vmware tools? Referring to the auto-screen size adjustments
[10:19] <zleap> how do I do this g+ hang out thing amjjawad wants to chat with me  but i can't get it to work properly
[10:19] <bioterror> tell him to use real chat things
[10:19] <bioterror> like IRC
[10:19] <zleap> ok
[10:20] <zleap> done,  well i said iw am on irc
[12:41] <Jfuzi> hello, I have an issue where MOST icons in file manager do not show up, unless I mouse-over them
[12:54] <Jfuzi> welp, gottago. trying to install the proprietary nvidia drivers atm and see if that helps
[17:28] <leszek> hi
[18:08] <padrino> Any of you successfully ran Lubuntu on a Raspberry Pi?
[18:09] <holstein> padrino: the debian or ubuntu versions for arm or pi would run, and you can add LXDE
[18:09] <padrino> I thinking of getting one, just need a portable wireless mouse + keyboard lol
[18:10] <holstein> i wouldnt get a pi to run a specific operating system.. i would get it if it meets your needs.. lowpower, cheap.. etc
[18:10] <padrino> Yeah I'm thinking of just getting an Android mini PC instead
[18:11] <holstein> if running ubuntu is the main goal, you can find likely arguably a lot "better" options
[18:11] <padrino> Cheaper + have better specs for a general lightweight PC
[18:11] <Unit193> holstein: Pretty sure you can't with Ubuntu Arm, wrong version.
[18:11] <holstein> Unit193: yeah, i think its limited..
[18:12] <holstein> ive been wanting a PI, but i just have enough old PC's around, and dont need the pi
[18:15] <padrino> Either gonna buy an Android mini PC or just a cheap second hand netbook and boot Lubuntu on it
[18:16] <holstein> padrino: i aquire machines (such as second hand netbook) routinely for no cost that run lubuntu well
[18:17] <padrino> how do you get them for no cost?
[18:17] <holstein> if running lubuntu is the main goal, i wouldnt go PI or android mini
[18:17] <padrino> And do you know of a computer IRC channel? I have a laptop here where I think the internal HDD has failed and I want info on fixing it
[18:18] <holstein> padrino: like that.. i get that machine with the bad hard drive, and replace it, for example
[18:18] <holstein> padrino: you can use the lubuntu live CD to test that hard drive
[18:18] <padrino> yeah, I've tried booting some Linux distros on that laptop from USB
[18:18] <padrino> I tried Tails, Slitaz and Puppy Linux and they all worked fine when running from USB
[18:18] <padrino> But didn't work when I attempted to install them
[18:19] <padrino> And the laptop fails to even boot Windows (standard OS) so I think it's HDD failure
[18:19] <holstein> padrino: test the hard drive..
[18:19] <padrino> holstein how?
[18:20] <holstein> padrino: i use whatever live CD i have at the time
[18:20] <Unit193> Using mhdd.
[18:20] <holstein> !info gsmartcontrol
[18:20] <padrino> holstein yeah I've used some LiveCDs and they run fine
[18:20] <holstein> http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
[18:20] <holstein> padrino: i use the live CD to run tools that test the hard drive
[18:20] <padrino> oh
[18:21] <padrino> I'll try it now, running Ultimate Boot CD through Tails should work, right?
[18:22] <holstein> padrino: i dont have those in front of me.. the tools that i reference are in the main repos for most distro. or the live CD i linked is quite small in size
[18:22] <holstein> http://worldofgnome.org/test-your-hard-drives-with-gsmartcontrol/
[18:23] <holstein> not sure what you mean by "through tails".. i thought tails *was* a live CD
[18:24] <padrino> yeah, Tails is a live CD
[18:25] <padrino> But I'm wondering if I can execute a hard drive test in Tails OS?
[18:25] <holstein> padrino: so, you are either using the tails live CD, or the ultimate boot cd.. you dont run one through the other
[18:26] <holstein> padrino: i dont use tailsOS, but if you have access to repos, you can install a tool to test the hard drive.. or there may be some included
[18:26] <holstein> if you have a lubuntu live CD, you can install gsmarcontrol, and run the tests as mentioned in the link above
[18:27] <padrino> so to run the Ultimate boot CD... I just unpackage the ISO on to a USB, then when I boot up computer click "boot from USB external"?
[18:27] <padrino> Like I would with another LiveCD OS
[18:27] <padrino> When I boot Tails, it says I/0 error on device sdb3, logical block 2. That's before it's even booted fully
[18:29] <holstein> padrino: i use unetbootin to run the ultimatebootcd.. i dont see where they report it can be "unpackaged on to a USB"
[18:30] <padrino> That's what I meant. Just I use Universal USB installer instead of Unetbootin
[18:30] <holstein> padrino: you use the iso you download however you want.. and however you can. burn a CD, or use a tool that allows CD iso's to run from USB, like unetbootin.. or dd copy the iso to a stick if that is supported
[18:30] <holstein> you can also, just replace the hard drive, if that is easier for you, and you have another one laying about
[18:32] <padrino> nope I don't :-( I'm going to boot UltimateBootCD and see what the error is, thanks for the help so far btw :-)
[18:33] <holstein> if you can boot SD cards (which all of my netbooks do) you can just disable or remove the internal hard drive, install to sd card, boot it and enjoy
[18:37] <padrino> What do I select when I boot UltimateBootCD?
[18:57] <holstein> padrino: i use whatever tool is appropiate for the task i want to do..
[18:57] <padrino> holstein okay, well I've just ran one but not sure what it was P
[18:57] <padrino> :p
[18:57] <holstein> padrino: in the parted magic live option there are the tools i mentioned
[18:57] <padrino> yeah I just ran some Parted Magic thing
[18:57] <padrino> And now it just says:
[18:58] <padrino> Setting up system devices... DONE
[18:58] <holstein> padrino: the one i listed will look *just* like the screen shots i gave, and is available from most distros
[18:58] <padrino> Searching for PMAGIC_2013_08_01.SQFS ...
[18:58] <padrino> I ended up using UltimateBootCD but yeah
[19:21] <padrino> yo holstein
[19:21] <padrino> I need a little help here
[19:22] <ianorlin> padrino in case he is not here what is your problem?
[19:22] <holstein> padrino: i would run the lubuntu live CD.. install "gsmartcontrol" and run "gksudo gsmartcontrol" from the terminal.. it'll look like the picturs on the site i linked at that point
[19:22] <padrino> Well I ran a GSmartControl test on my internal HDD (which I thought was the problem) and came back with these results
[19:22] <padrino> http://i.imgur.com/EFxwKdH.png
[19:22] <holstein> testing hardware is not trivial.. i wouldnt get stuck in one place.. if something isnt working for you, just move on
[19:22] <padrino> and http://i.imgur.com/xhrq24i.png
[19:23] <holstein> padrino: i run the *long* extended tests
[19:23] <padrino> so I ran the test wrong?
[19:23] <holstein> padrino: if you are having issues installing to the drive, the drive could be bad, or it could be (from what you have reported) just that windows is not booting from that drive, and something else is preventing you from installing to the hard drive
[19:24] <holstein> padrino: there are differet tests.. i run the long one.. i dont konw what you ran..
[19:24] <padrino> I'm not sure whether it's the RAM or the HDD though, which is what I wanted to find out
[19:24] <holstein> padrino: the lubuntu live CD, as well as most other live CD's, and the ubcd have memory tests
[19:24] <ianorlin> yes run memtest
[19:25] <holstein> run whatever tests you can.. rule things out as you go.. these test (when i trust the results) run for hours
[19:25] <holstein> i usually let a memtest run overnight.. and the long hard drive test can take hours
[19:26] <padrino> but when the errors come up, I won't know what they mean
[19:27] <holstein> padrino: i open a search page and search.. or, if i see *any* error, and i have other hardware, i swap hardware and test again
[19:27] <padrino> ah okay, I'm running memtest now
[19:27] <padrino> Don't know how long it'll take, but thanks :-)
[19:27] <holstein> there are reasons why techs charge for these services.. they are not always trivial.. though, its easy enough to test hardware if one is patient..
[19:51] <padrino> Yo
[19:52] <padrino> I just ran memtest and it says "Pass complete, no errors, press Esc to exit". But I'm 100% sure there's errors somewhere in system
[19:52] <deleted_> Well it's not the memory ;)
[19:52] <padrino> I think it's the HDD but I'm not sure how to test that
[19:53] <padrino> I form a diagnoses on HDD, right?
[19:53] <Unit193> http://hddguru.com/software/2005.10.02-MHDD/ ?  What's the brand of device?
[19:53] <padrino> Toshiba
[19:53] <padrino> Toshiba HDD, Dell Laptop
[19:54] <Unit193> And did you run the S.M.A.R.T. tools on it?
[19:55] <padrino> I ran GSmartControl but I'm not sure what you mean by SMART tools
[19:55] <deleted_> You can use FSCK to check for errors
[19:55] <deleted_> or a bootable rescut CD to use other more robust tools
[19:55] <deleted_> *recue CD
[19:56] <padrino> I can run HDAT V4.9.3 on HDD, which is "Expert tool for ATA/ATAPI/SATA diagnostics with most detailed SMART + DCO & HPA features + advanced routines for surface scan and refresh + bad sector remapping and wipe"
[19:56] <padrino> I'm current running the UltimateBootCD live USB
[19:57] <holstein> padrino: if there is not data on the drive that i want to keep, i dont bother with repair steps at first
[19:58] <deleted_> padrino, is this a linux based boot disk?
[19:58] <padrino> yes deleted_
[19:58] <holstein> padrino: i would run the simple long test in gsmartcontrol.. its in the parted magic live enviroment on the UBCD, and its in the repo for ubuntu
[19:59] <holstein> padrino: if you already ran some tools that say there are no errors, then try and install to the drive
[19:59] <holstein> padrino: i would want to run a test that takes a few hours on both the hard drive and the memory
[19:59] <deleted_> padrino, sorry for asking, have you already run a test to check for disk errors?
[20:00] <padrino> I don't even know what I've already ran :(
[20:00] <holstein> padrino: the memtest runs.. its ongoing.. it'll say no errors at the beginning .. its one you can just leave running for hours
[20:00] <padrino> And holstein, I booted up the parted magic live environment and went into Gsmartcontrol and couldn't find any simple long test
[20:00] <holstein> padrino: it'll look just like the screenshots i sent you.. theres a dropdown box where you chooose the type of test
[20:01] <holstein> padrino: have you tried to install to the disk?
[20:01] <padrino> holstein can I boot "Live with default settings" or do I have to "Run from RAM"?
[20:01] <holstein> padrino: you dont have to do either.. its a choice
[20:01] <holstein> padrino: if you want to run from ram, run from ram..
[20:02] <holstein> padrino: i suggest to you, as you learn, try all defaults, til the defaults dont fit your particular needs.. have you tried to install lubuntu?
[20:03] <padrino> holstein yeah, and I don't think my laptop can manage it
[20:04] <padrino> It can only run the super-lightweight distros
[20:04] <holstein> padrino: then, there is no need to test *anything* then
[20:04] <holstein> padrino: lubuntu *is* light
[20:04] <padrino> holstein I mean a really lightweight one, like slitaz
[20:04] <holstein> padrino: what are the specs?
[20:04] <padrino> or puppy linux
[20:04] <padrino> and it's got 250GB HDD, 3GB RAM
[20:04] <holstein> padrino: im familiar with both..
[20:04] <padrino> Not sure about the rest, although I can probably find out
[20:05] <holstein> padrino: lubuntu will run fine on there..
[20:05] <padrino> but I think my internal HDD is failing, that's why it's not installing?
[20:05] <padrino> Cause Windows can't even boot on it
[20:05] <holstein> padrino: if you have not tried installing lubuntu, try that, please
[20:05] <holstein> padrino: puppy is not easily installable.. and slitaz can be the same
[20:05] <padrino> holstein I did, but it was on the installing page for a very long time
[20:05] <holstein> padrino: windows not being able to boot doesnt proove anything bue that
[20:06] <padrino> and people said it's not usual for it to be on it that long
[20:06] <holstein> padrino: do it again, with the latest iso, and report.. .
[20:06] <holstein> padrino: or, continue testing.. mabye in a hardware specific channel
[20:07] <padrino> I'm going to boot Lubuntu
[20:07] <padrino> install lubuntu*
[20:07] <holstein> padrino: boot it live.. to the live desktop first
[20:08] <padrino> so don't install first, just boot as livecd?
[20:11] <holstein> padrino: thats what i said, and meant to imply, and suggest..
[20:11] <holstein> padrino: if you cant boot the live enviroment, you need to address that first
[20:11] <holstein> padrino: do you have the latest lubuntu? 13.10?
[20:14] <padrino> yes holstein
[20:14] <padrino> I'm running it now
[20:15] <holstein> it?
[20:15] <holstein> the live environment is booted?
[20:16] <padrino> Not exactly, it just stays on the Lubuntu booting screen for ages: http://i.imgur.com/h1iGmQc.png
[20:16] <padrino> (sorry about bad image quality)
[20:16] <holstein> padrino: then, thats is the issue that i suggest dealing with
[20:16] <padrino> what issue?
[20:16] <holstein> is it graphics related? a bad iso?
[20:16] <holstein> padrino: ? that one.. you need to be able to boot the live environment
[20:17] <padrino> it's not a bad ISO
[20:17] <padrino> and I don't know the problem with the laptop, that's what I was trying to find out
[20:18] <holstein> padrino: did you confirm the md5 of the iso?
[20:18] <padrino> Ye
[20:18] <padrino> Yes*
[20:18] <padrino> It's finally booted
[20:19] <holstein> padrino: here are just a few potential issues i run into when installing *any* os on *any* hardware that you can address in any order you like.. supported graphics drivers could be causing that to hang.. you can try
[20:19] <deleted_> This has happened to me as well. Have you checked to see if your PC supports PAE?
[20:19] <padrino> But it took an awfully long time
[20:19] <holstein> !nomodeset
[20:19] <holstein> padrino: its a live environment.. it wont be "fast".. its for hardware support testing.. try to install now, choosing the entire disk as the target
[20:19] <holstein> if asked, dont install updates during the installation
[20:21] <padrino> Yeah, it's installing now just loading: http://i.imgur.com/f3jpDW0.png
[20:22] <holstein> padrino: dont install updates, or codecs.. just install from the disk
[20:23] <padrino> yeah I have
[20:24] <padrino> How long should it stay on the screen I just screenshotted for?
[20:25] <holstein> padrino: depends
[20:25] <holstein> padrino: you should prepare to wait
[20:25] <holstein> typically takes me anywhere from 8 minutes to an hour or so, depending on the hardware
[20:26] <genii> Just the network timeout is 2 minutes usually ( tries twice, a minute each)
[20:27] <holstein> i typically have already gotten online at that point, and tested all the hardware to see how the support is.. but, im a "look before you leap" kind of guy
[20:36] <padrino> It's still on that screen, don't think it's going to work


[01:58] <bratsche> Nafai, jono: Submenus branch is posted.  Will hopefully go through review and be available in trunk tomorrow.
[02:15] <jono> bratsche, awesome, thanks!
[02:47] <Nafai> bratsche: Thanks a ton!  I'll let you know how it works out :)
[04:02] <Nafai> status sent out.  kind of exhausted, headed to bed excited for hard work tomorrow.
[14:08] <Nafai> Good morning
[14:51] <jcastro> Nafai, ok our job this morning is to bug Ted/Cody/whoever until you're unblocked
[14:52] <Nafai> Thanks
[14:54] <Nafai> Looks like I'm just waiting for Cody's changes to come to the repo, he changed the status of the bug to Fix Committed, some hopefully in not too long I can work on Gnome Bluetooth
[14:56] <jpetersen> To make the ibus app indicator work like in the status icon the application indicator menu would need to not get focus, but that would break keyboard navigation inside the menu
[14:57] <jpetersen> I have a workaround for ibus which makes it work as good as possible when the input field looses focus to the menu
[14:57] <jpetersen> it is bug 497878
[14:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 497878 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Support Application Indicators (affects: 1)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497878
[14:58] <jpetersen> whom should I assign it for review?
[15:00] <jpetersen> It would also be good to have support to set the app indicator icon by filename
[15:01] <jpetersen> For the display setting application indicator we would need support for signals when the menu is opened/closed (to display labels on the monitors)
[15:02] <jpetersen> And some custom drawn menu items (to match the labels on the screens)
[15:16] <Nafai> jcastro: I took a minute to look at policykit-gnome, and I'm not seeing any use of GtkStatusIcon
[15:20] <seb128> Nafai, don't waste work on that, polkit-gnome is deprecated
[15:20] <seb128> we use polkit-1 now
[15:21] <jcastro> seb128, ok
[15:22] <Nafai> Ok, perhaps the bug for the work was mis-filed
[15:22] <Nafai> thanks
[15:22] <seb128> seems so
[15:22] <Nafai> and policykit-1-gnome does use GtkStatusIcon
[15:22] <seb128> they filed bugs based on some grepping
[15:22] <seb128> oh
[15:23] <seb128> reassign the bug then
[15:23] <seb128> (don't close the task and open a new one)
[15:23] <Nafai> ok
[15:23] <seb128> right, polkit-1 displays an icon with keys you can click on to revoke authentification
[15:23] <seb128> should be trivial to port I guess
[15:24] <seb128> it's one menu with one entry
[15:26] <Nafai> jcastro: I reassigned the bug to the package policykit-1-gnome
[15:26] <Nafai> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-1-gnome/+bug/497881
[15:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 497881 in policykit-1-gnome (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Support Application Indicators (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[15:26] <jcastro> ok
[15:27] <Nafai> it seems that the source on git.gnome.org though is for the old one though
[15:29] <jcastro> seb128, I need to adjust the upstream bug as well right?
[15:29] <seb128> jcastro, I don't know if they created new components for the new version
[15:29] <seb128> jcastro, ask pitti maybe
[15:29] <jcastro> I don't see one
[15:29] <jcastro> ok
[15:29] <seb128> he probably knows
[15:30] <jcastro> ok no change in the upstream name in bgo
[15:31] <jcastro> Nafai, did cody's fix land so bluetooth can be finished today?
[15:32] <Nafai> jcastro: not yet, though the bug says fix committed, so I hope it lands sometime today
[15:33] <jcastro> ok and you just need a response to the brasero mail to finish that off?
[15:33] <Nafai> yeah, that response will help both brasero and vino
[15:33] <seb128> where is cody change?
[15:33] <jcastro> Nafai, which bug was the submenu one? I can see if it built
[15:34] <Nafai> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/519625
[15:34] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 519625 in indicator-application "Submenus don't appear to be supported (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Fix committed]
[15:34] <seb128> I can upload that to lucid if you guys need it
[15:35] <jcastro> yes please!
[15:39] <jcastro> Nafai, ok so I'll ambush ted and bratsche when they arrive
[15:40] <Nafai> Thanks, I appreciate it :)
[15:40] <jcastro> also, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606972
[15:40] <ubot4> Gnome bug 606972 in User Interface "Support for application-indicators/StatusNotifierIcon" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[15:40] <jcastro> that was cody's patch but I bet he will have no time to look at it, so I guess jono will assign it to one of you to finish off
[15:41] <Nafai> Looks like it is updating the rb support for upstream?
[15:42] <jcastro> yeah, it was our first example
[15:42] <jcastro> we've been carrying it in lucid for a while, just needs the extra love to get upstream
[15:43] <seb128> oh please somebody do update that one to current git
[15:43] <seb128> I wanted to do a rhythmbox git snapshot soon
[15:43] <Nafai> I can do that after I finish this stuff :)
[15:43] <seb128> thanks
[15:43] <seb128> I will get the submenu change uploaded meanwhile
[15:44] <seb128> so you can go back to bluetooth after rhythmbox ;-)
[15:44] <jcastro> seb128, any love to get that built quickly would be <3
[15:44] <jcastro> bribe someone for a higher score!
[15:47] <GogglesGuy> So the Application Panel Indicators (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators) seems to work somewhat different than the proposed desktop standard (http://www.notmart.org/misc/statusnotifieritem/index.html). Can anybody shed some light on this? To me it seems like there are two standards being implemented right now. jono 's blogpost gives the impression of only one standard. (http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/02/10/kde-application-in
[15:48] <Nafai> seb128: Just to make sure what you mean, "Update the current one to git", make the current patch work with rb git?
[15:49] <jcastro> GogglesGuy, tedg is the person to ask
[15:50] <seb128> Nafai, I plan to update rhythmbox in lucid soon
[15:50] <seb128> Nafai, so if you have a patch updated for what is in git it will make my job easier ;-)
[15:50] <Nafai> ok, awesome
[15:50] <Nafai> can do
[15:50] <seb128> Nafai, ie it will not block my update
[15:50] <seb128> Nafai, thanks
[15:50] <jcastro> upstream wants it updated to git anyway so 2 birds ...
[15:52] <Nafai> Should I just grab the patch from the debian/patches directory and work from there?
[15:53] <GogglesGuy> jcastro: thanks, I'll wait for tedg then :P
[15:54] <jcastro> heh, the line lengthens
[16:16] <jcastro> hi bratsche!
[16:17] <bratsche> Hey
[16:17] <jcastro> bratsche, could you answer Nafai's mail so he can finish off brasero and vino?
[16:17] <seb128> Nafai, yes
[16:17] <bratsche> Let me check
[16:17] <seb128> hey bratsche
[16:17] <jcastro> bratsche, sorry no ted today, so we're going to pile up on you instead. :D
[16:18] <bratsche> heh
[16:18] <bratsche> Hey seb128
[16:18] <Nafai> seb128: thanks
[16:23] <bratsche> Nafai: Let me pull down the code to brasero and see what you mean.  I'm not sure I really understand what you're asking.
[16:23] <Nafai> sure, I sometimes I'm a little unclear :)
[16:26] <bratsche> Nafai: Okay, so brasero has BraseroTrayIcon that derives from GtkStatusIcon and you want to make something that's compatible with both?
[16:27] <Nafai> the ultimate goal is to not copy and paste code to duplicate the functionality of BraseroTrayIcon in BraseroAppIndicator
[16:27] <Nafai> What seems natural is to make a new parent class, not have BraseroTrayIcon inherit from GtkStatusIcon, and go from there
[16:27] <Nafai> But that feels pretty invasive, and am not sure how upstream would receive it
[16:27] <seb128> Nafai, using i386?
[16:27] <Nafai> Vino is designed similarly
[16:28] <Nafai> seb128: x86_64
[16:28] <Nafai> yay for manually resolving patches
[16:29] <bratsche> Nafai: One possibility is to have configure.ac check for the existence of app indicators and set HAVE_APP_INDICATORS or whatever, then if it's set provide a different implementation of BraseroTrayIcon at compile time and try to keep the .h file pretty much the same.
[16:30] <seb128> Nafai, the updated indicator-application built now
[16:30] <seb128> Nafai, you can get the debs on launchpad or wait next publisher run
[16:30] <Nafai> thanks
[16:31] <Nafai> I'm still working on rhythmbox, manually updating patches is fun :)
[16:31] <bratsche> Another possibility, but which is probably more work than we want to invest into a single application now, is to define a GInterface that abstracts between an app indicator and a GtkStatusIcon and then have a factory method to create the appropriate implementation.
[16:32] <Nafai> Yeah
[16:32] <Nafai> Hrm
[16:35] <jcastro> bratsche, fyi: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606972
[16:35] <ubot4> Gnome bug 606972 in User Interface "Support for application-indicators/StatusNotifierIcon" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[16:35] <jcastro> bratsche, nafai is looking at it
[16:35]  * bratsche clicks
[16:36] <bratsche> Cool.
[16:36] <Nafai> so, have ifdef's in the .h file depending on if HAVE_APP_INDICATOR is defined.  If it is, change the parent class to GObject instead of GtkStatusIcon, then in the implementation, have appropriate ifdefs to do the differences
[16:36] <Nafai> so using the preprocessor to define what the class actually does
[16:37] <bratsche> Nafai: Well, how about this:
[16:37] <bratsche> Copy BraseroTrayIcon into a new file, brasero-indicator.[ch] and reimplement it using app indicators.  Change what it derives from so it's not GtkStatusIcon.  Then do all the if HAVE_APP_INDICATOR stuff in the build system.
[16:38] <bratsche> So then the sources include brasero-tray-icon.c if it's not defined, or brasero-indicator.c if it is.
[16:38] <Nafai> well, I've already done that, but that leaves portions that are identical between brasero-indicator and brasero-tray
[16:38] <Nafai> which is what I'm trying to avoid
[16:38] <Nafai> (again, sorry if I'm not explaining this well)
[16:38] <bratsche> Oh I see.
[16:39] <Nafai> for example, when a given menu item is clicked, do this action
[16:40] <Nafai> vino is worse, I think I would have to copy and paste a lot more code, and the differences would only be a line or two in each method
[16:41] <bratsche> Can you have a wrapper object that holds either a statusicon or indicator object, and which contains the common code like signal callbacks?
[16:41] <Nafai> that might make sense
[16:42] <bratsche> If all else fails then you may just have to #ifdef HAVE_APP_INDICATORS / #else / #endif in your code.
[16:43] <bratsche> Ideally we want the code to be good to send upstream, but at the end of the day the primary goal is to just get through the list of applications so we can ship them in Lucid.
[16:43] <Nafai> right
[16:43] <Nafai> I've got far enough with brasero and am familiar enough that I could easily prototype this change
[16:43] <bratsche> So I'd probably say if you're stuck on something like this, just do something slightly hacky if you need to in order to get through the list and make notes about which apps you can come back to and improve the quality of.
[16:43] <Nafai> jcastro: opinion?
[16:44] <jcastro> I think that makes sense.
[16:44] <jcastro> I'm concious of getting it in the distro asap before the deadline
[16:45] <jcastro> after that if they slice it apart and we have to iterate a bunch of times then that's what we'll have to do
[16:45] <Nafai> so for the first deadline, we can accept there is some copy and pasted code, but with the plan to go back and fix later in the cycle, so that we can feel like there is something we can share upstream
[16:46] <jcastro> yes, except I would be more comfortable submitting the code in the upstream bug anyway so they could at least see what we're doing
[16:46] <Nafai> ok, with the caveat, saying "Hey, I know there is this problem...what would make you more likely to accept this?"
[16:46] <jcastro> Nafai, and perhaps lay out a little rationale and what conclusion you came up with (ie. a little summary of the conversation you just had)
[16:46] <Nafai> good idea
[16:46] <jcastro> right
[16:47] <jcastro> that would at least kick off the conversation
[16:47] <Nafai> ok, good
[16:47] <Nafai> bratsche: thanks for the ideas, sorry if I was unclear
[16:48] <jcastro> gnome is mostly frozen for this cycle anyway, so it's not like we have a deadline looming to get it accepted upstream.
[16:48] <Nafai> I'm going to go take a little break, I'll get back and work on updating the rb patch, then I'm really not blocked on brasero, vino, and gnome-bluetooth
[16:48] <Nafai> so I've got plenty to keep me busy today :)
[16:48] <jcastro> steady progress on each bug will be the way to go I think
[16:48] <Nafai> def.
[16:48] <Nafai> bbiab
[16:48] <bratsche> Thanks for your work Nafai
[16:50] <tgpraveen12> i just updated my lucid and got the volume control indicator. few probs
[16:51] <tgpraveen12> 1. i cant change the volume using keyboard i can just use the up down keys on kb to scroll up and down the menu items but not change volume.
[16:51] <tgpraveen12> 2. now i can no longer change the volume with my mouse scroll wheel by just the notification area icon. more clicks reqd
[16:52] <tgpraveen12> 3. once the indicator menu is opened. mouse scroll down increases volume and scroll up dec it. imho this should be reversed
[16:52] <tgpraveen12> should i file bugs for them?
[16:54] <jcastro> Nafai, when you get back concentrate on finishing the apps, then go back to rb.
[16:55] <jcastro> tgpraveen12, someone's already filed a bug on 2.
[16:56] <tgpraveen12> bug# if u have handy?
[16:59] <jcastro> bah, can't find it now
[16:59] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/521046
[16:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521046 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "can't change audio using mouse wheel (affects: 2)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[17:00] <tgpraveen12> thx,
[17:01] <seb128> tgpraveen12, yes open bugs
[17:01] <tgpraveen12> ok
[17:58] <Nafai> jcastro: Okay
[17:58] <Nafai> darn tv, stupid distractions :)
[18:24] <Nafai> Okay, that's a little closer with bratsche's changes
[18:25] <Nafai> http://www.travishartwell.net/bluetooth.png
[18:25] <bratsche> Nice.
[18:25] <Nafai> I'm sure it's something I'm not doing now
[18:25] <Nafai> I'll let you know if it isn't
[18:26] <bratsche> Nafai: Keep rocking dude!
[18:26] <Nafai> :)  wee, thanks!
[18:42] <jcastro> Nafai, looking good!
[18:42] <Nafai> Hopefully I can track down the issue real quick like ;)
[18:42] <jcastro> Nafai, when do you end-of-day? if you don't mind I'd like to do a quick call and go over each app so I can have an updated status
[18:42] <Nafai> generally around 5 or so mountain
[18:43] <jcastro> Nafai, so let's do a call around 2.5 hours or so?
[18:44] <Nafai> sure
[18:44] <Nafai> works for me
[19:15] <Nafai> just verifying, I can't get the menu open event?  gnome-bluetooth uses that to cancel any notifications that are on screen
[19:40] <Nafai> HI tedg
[19:40] <Nafai> quick question for you :)
[19:40] <tedg> Nafai: Heh, okay.
[19:40] <Nafai> just verifying, I can't get the menu open event?  gnome-bluetooth uses that to cancel any notifications that are on screen
[19:41] <Nafai> they have a popup_activate signal
[19:47] <tedg> Nafai: It has been the plan to add one... but it's getting really close to feature freeze, so I don't know if it'll make it.
[19:47] <tedg> Nafai: It shouldn't be an issue though.
[19:47] <Nafai> okay, I can leave that part as a "TODO"
[19:47] <tedg> Nafai: As the reason that gnome-bluetooth does that is because of notification-daemon, and notify-osd handles this much better.
[19:47] <Nafai> oh, good to know then
[19:48] <GogglesGuy> tedg: So the Application Panel Indicators (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators) seems to work somewhat different than the proposed desktop standard (http://www.notmart.org/misc/statusnotifieritem/index.html). Can anybody shed some light on this? To me it seems like there are two standards being implemented right now. jono 's blogpost gives the impression of only one standard. (http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/02/10/kde-applicat
[19:49] <Nafai> Hrm, I'm seeing this in my indicator-applet.log, I wonder if this is part of the reason my menu is funky and showing things it shouldn't:
[19:50] <Nafai> Indicator Item property 'visible' unknown
[19:50] <Nafai> Is that for one of the icons or for a menu item?
[19:51] <tedg> GogglesGuy: The KSNI spec defines the "how" of how applications can communicate with visualizations over dbus.  But, it provides very little of what that actually means.  AppIndicators take a few of the values in KSNI and say exactly how we are going to use them.  So an Application using AppIndicators will work in KDE as it still follows the how provided by KSNI and applications that work with KSNI will work in AppIndicators, just not a
[19:51] <tedg> Nafai: Probably for a menu item.  It should be 'enabled'.
[19:52] <tedg> Nafai: Oh, wait, sorry.
[19:52] <tedg> Nafai: That's from libindicate, it's probably not related.  It's from the messaging menu.
[19:52] <Nafai> oh, okay
[19:58] <GogglesGuy> tedg: I understand that the implementations may differ on how they interpret certain aspects of the spec, but for example the "Menu" property in the current implementation is required for a status icon to be visible but the spec doesn't have such property. Hence anyone following the spec won't be invisible in that case.
[19:59] <Nafai> ahah
[19:59] <Nafai> I figured out what is going on
[20:00] <Nafai> tedg: so you pass a menu to the app-indicator's API, it parses it and then passes the structure over D-bus to the service?  And then the applet recreates it?
[20:00] <tedg> GogglesGuy: Yes, we're working with the KDE folks and I believe the plan is that they'll add it (if they haven't already).  We've written the code for KDE libs so that it adds that as in KDE you provide a menu, it was just shown as a popup with the secondary click event instead of through dbusmenu.
[20:01] <tedg> Nafai: Correct.
[20:01] <Nafai> ok
[20:01] <tedg> Nafai: That way on KDE the menu gets recreated in QT and looks native to the panel there.
[20:02] <Nafai> so gnome-bluetooth updates the menu after it is set on the status icon, including hiding items, etc.  so I need to set the menu again whenever the menu changes?
[20:03] <qense> tedg: I'm hunting down the bug that I've asked about in this channel a few times already and I've got a question about the way Indicator-Application handles the labels of the GtkImageMenuItems. Somehow AppInd seems to use the stock label when a stock icon has been set, even when a custom label has been set.
[20:04] <tedg> Nafai: You shouldn't have to.  I'm unsure how updating works -- that'd be a question for bratsche
[20:04] <Nafai> okay
[20:04] <tedg> qense: Okay.  Sounds like a bug to me.
[20:06] <qense> tedg: It's reporter already, but I wanted to see if I could find its cause. I should have asked what I wanted to ask with my previous question -- I was far from clear -- where does AppInd get the MenuItem label from when setting the MenuItem label? The DBus property 'label', or the GtkImageMenuItem's 'label' property?
[20:06] <Nafai> bratsche: Around?
[20:07] <GogglesGuy> tedg: so do I understand correctly you want to support both the "Activate"  "ContextMenu" etc methods and the dbusmenu method?
[20:07] <bratsche> Nafai, tedg: Yeah, right now I think it's only parsing through the menu when you set it.  Let me look to see what's involved in having it update it automagically.
[20:07] <Nafai> ok :)
[20:08] <tedg> qense: If you grab lp:indicator-application then go to src/libappindicator/app-indicator.c you can see.  Just search for "STOCK" :)  That'll probably answer your next two questions too ;)
[20:09] <qense> tedg: OK, thank you for your time!
[20:09] <tedg> GogglesGuy: We're not going to use those methods with the appindicator service running on Ubuntu, but applications using libappindicator will fallback to using them if the dbusmenu support isn't there.
[20:09] <GogglesGuy> I see
[20:10] <qense> ah, found the bug!
[20:10] <bratsche> Nafai: I'll cook up a patch for it right now.
[20:10] <Nafai> bratsche, Awesome!
[20:12] <GogglesGuy> tedg: Iyou do know that the first bugs/feature requests that people will report is mouse wheel scrolling, right click context menu and the activate click support.
[20:13] <Nafai> okay, this is a good time to take my lunch
[20:13] <GogglesGuy> Much of the GtkStatusIcon didn't support for a very long time
[20:13] <tedg> GogglesGuy: Oh, they already have :)
[20:14] <GogglesGuy> tedg: Mind you I do like the way dbusmenu would work, but perhaps you should be able to specify that either for a right click or left click... :)
[20:14] <qense> Only the mouse wheel scrolling is worth saving, all the others conflict with the design document.
[20:15] <GogglesGuy> qense: I think the design document doesn't match reality though...
[20:15] <tedg> GogglesGuy: The thing that we want is them to behave consistently and like normal menus.  Which don't work differently depending on the mouse button you use.
[20:17] <Nafai> That's one of the things I like about app-indicators
[20:17] <Nafai> I never know if I need to left-click or right-click to get functionality (or specific functionality) out of things in the notification area
[20:17] <qense> Where is the documentation for libdbusmenu? I'd like to take a look at the reference manual of DbusmenuMenuitem.
[20:17] <qense> Nafai: indeed, I like consistency
[20:21] <tedg> qense: I don't have it generating anywhere right now. :(  The functions are documented though.
[20:21] <tedg> qense: lp:dbusmenu
[20:22] <bratsche> It would be nice to get that stuff into devhelp.
[20:22] <qense> tedg: That's fine, I just found the code myself. Thanks for providing it as well, though. ;)
[20:22] <qense> bratsche: indeed, there is way too little documentation from Ayatana in Devhelp atm
[20:22] <tedg> bratsche: Yeah, it's just a PITA to set up gtk-doc so I haven't done it yet.
[20:22] <bratsche> I think we have libindicate in there, but nobody has gotten around to libdbusmenu.
[20:22] <tedg> An libappindicator is there as well.
[20:23] <tedg> I need to figure out how to get gtk-doc to make nice web docs as well.
[20:23] <vish> tedg: i *think* i found how gnome-main-menu orients the menu to the panel  , but now sure how to apply it to the application indicators > Bug 498182
[20:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 498182 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Indicator-application does not support vertical panels (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/498182
[20:23] <vish> comment 1
[20:23] <bratsche> tedg: Do we have bugs open for the modules missing gtk-doc support yet?
[20:23] <tedg> I'm sure it's not impossible, as everyone else does it, but I've never really tried.
[20:24] <tedg> bratsche: We had a couple, I'm not sure about for all of them though.
[20:24] <qense> tedg: Isn't there a default, already good-looking, template from gtk-doc?
[20:24] <qense> a better looking than what appindicator is using now?
[20:25] <tedg> vish: Well that's because the panel is using a box for packing, we're using a MenuBar, so it's probably be a bit different.
[20:25] <vish> hmm.. :(
[20:25] <bratsche> What's the problem?
[20:25] <tedg> qense: There's templates, but I think the bigger issues is getting it linked in with stuff like gtk.org for the GTK+ docs.  It's possible to do, I'm just not sure how.
[20:26] <vish> bratsche: application menu does not switch[re-orient] when the panel is vertical panel
[20:26] <vish> the icons get hidden out of the screen
[20:26] <qense> well, you're probably already busy enough with actual development, so It's understandable. Isn't there a specific documentation team that knows these kind of things?
[20:27] <vish> bratsche: i thought i could use the gnome-main-menu code for that , but guess I'm lost :(
[20:27] <tedg> qense: Sounds great, you should start one ;)  I imagine it's just figuring out what library.gnome.org does and copying it.
[20:27] <qense> tedg: I wish I had the time to do so. :)
[20:28] <bratsche> vish: Does it expose GtkOrientation somewhere?
[20:31] <vish> bratsche: not really sure
[20:31]  * vish checks
[20:32] <vish> bratsche: gnome-main-menu does not
[20:35] <bratsche> http://library.gnome.org/devel/panel-applet/stable/PanelApplet.html#PanelAppletOrient
[20:35] <bratsche> http://library.gnome.org/devel/panel-applet/stable/PanelApplet.html#panel-applet-get-orient
[20:37] <bratsche> vish: That might be a good place to start from if this is something you're interested in hacking on.
[20:38] <vish> hmm.. bratsche thanks.. will have a look
[20:39] <bratsche> vish: I don't have time to work on this right now, but if you're interested in it then I can try to help you out some.
[20:40] <vish> bratsche: but that^ part i think wont work , since tedg mentions app indicator uses the menubar , while gnome-mani-menu uses the box
[20:40] <bratsche> vish: Yeah, but app indicators still live inside a panel applet ultimately.  So that applet would need to know its orientation and then communicate that to the indicator.
[20:41] <vish> ah, ok
[20:41] <vish> bratsche: i'll try to check how to make it work and get back to you :)
[20:42] <bratsche> vish: Oh, and lastly you'd need to listen to this signal: http://library.gnome.org/devel/panel-applet/stable/PanelApplet.html#PanelApplet-change-orient
[20:44] <vish> cool , thanks..
[20:57] <qense> bratsche: fiiiix!
[20:57] <qense> ahem
[20:58] <qense> bratsche: I've written a fix for the bug that was bugging me a few days ago and that I assigned to you
[21:06] <bratsche> Fantastic!
[21:06] <bratsche> What's the url?
[21:10] <qense> bratsche: I just submitted a merge request assigned to you, for branch lp:~qense/indicator-application/fix-520048 , of course a fix for bug 520048
[21:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 520048 in indicator-application "Custom labels in GtkActionEntries aren't resepected by Application Indicators C-bindings (affects: 1)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520048
[21:11] <qense> I've tested it and it seems to work very well.
[21:11] <bratsche> Cool, I'll take a look at it.
[21:11] <qense> bratsche: thanks
[21:12] <bratsche> Nafai: I'm posing lp:~bratsche/indicator-application/menu-changes - do you have time to see if this fixes the issues you were having in gnome-bluetooth?
[21:12] <bratsche> s/posing/posting
[21:12] <Nafai> Sure, what's the best way to test it locally?
[21:13] <bratsche> tedg? ^
[21:13] <jono> kenvandine, is the sound indicator shipped in Lucid?
[21:13] <jono> I just dist-upgraded and see no volume control
[21:13] <qense> jono: yes
[21:13] <qense> I have it running here.
[21:13] <qense> did you reboot/relog?
[21:13] <jono> qense, yep
[21:13] <jono> rebooted
[21:14] <tedg> jono: It might not be installed by default yet, try installing indicator-sound.
[21:14] <tedg> Nafai: Best way...
[21:14] <jono> tedg, ahhh thats it
[21:14] <bratsche> Do you have to relogin after installing indicator-sound?
[21:15] <tedg> Nafai: Probably the best way is to merge it into a local packaging branch.
[21:15] <tedg> bratsche: killall indicator-applet will work.
[21:15] <bratsche> tedg: https://code.launchpad.net/~qense/indicator-application/fix-520048/+merge/19201
[21:15] <bratsche> tedg: You want to review this as well?  It looks fine to me.
[21:15] <Nafai> tedg: What's the packaging branch named?
[21:16] <jono> wow
[21:16] <tedg> Nafai: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu
[21:16] <jono> I am getting spammed by indicator applet quit unexpectedly dialog boxes
[21:16] <Nafai> Thanks
[21:16] <qense> bratsche: I have already signed the Contributor Agreement, if that's required
[21:17]  * jono uninstalls sound-indicator :)
[21:17] <jono> indicator-sound, rather
[21:17] <kenvandine> jono, it should be there by default
[21:18] <qense> he's quit already
[21:18] <kenvandine> saw that :/
[21:18] <jono> tedg, how do I start indicator applet?
[21:18] <jono> what is it called?
[21:18] <bratsche> jono: Right-click the panel and click the "add" thing.
[21:18] <bratsche> It's called Indicator Applet.
[21:19] <jono> ahhh yes
[21:19] <jono> thanks bratsche :)
[21:19] <qense> but it doesn't contain the volume control thing
[21:19] <kenvandine> it should
[21:19] <kenvandine> and the old one shouldn't be there anymore
[21:19] <bratsche> I really want to convince someone to reverse the mousewheel events for indicator-sound though.
[21:19] <kenvandine> seb128 killed it earlier
[21:19] <qense> Was it moved from indicator application to the applet?
[21:19] <bratsche> Because I'm used to mousewheel-up increasing the sound.
[21:20] <kenvandine> qense, they all hang off the indicator-applet
[21:20] <qense> ah, I never knew that
[21:20] <kenvandine> stuff using indicator-application also are attached to it :)
[21:20] <kenvandine> yup :)
[21:20] <qense> tedg, bratsche: thanks for approving
[21:20] <Nafai> brb
[21:30] <qense> Is this <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=indicator-application> already linked to from some places? It contains a neat list of applications that still need Indicator Applications support.
[21:32] <tedg> qense: I think so, jcastro would know ^
[21:33] <jcastro> qense, yep that's it.
[21:33] <qense> tedg, jcastro: good
[21:34] <jcastro> qense, there are tons in universe which probably need bugs, however talking to the upstream directly can be quicker.
[21:35] <Nafai> uh, so I'm new to bzr, what do I have to do to merge cody's changes with the packaging branch?
[21:35] <Nafai> I have them both checked out
[21:35] <Nafai> I thought I did it, but it doesn't look like it
[21:36] <qense> jcastro: if only we could get that list done I'd be very happy
[21:36] <qense> Nafai: bzr merge ../path/to/branch-you-want-to-merge
[21:36] <jcastro> qense, Nafai's got like 3 pending ones to land here shortly
[21:36] <qense> splendid!
[21:36] <Nafai> Yeah, I'm really close :)
[21:37] <Nafai> qense, Okay, I did that, but it is saying I have pending merges when I do bzr status
[21:37] <qense> you did mark those bugs as In Progress, did you?
[21:37] <qense> bzr commit should fix that iirc
[21:37] <Nafai> thanks
[21:37] <Nafai> I'm used to git :)
[21:38] <qense> Nafai: you can associate a commit with an LP bug with the command 'bzr commit --fixes lp:bug_number', btw
[21:38] <Nafai> Yes, mine are "in progress"
[21:38] <qense> ok, I just wanted to be sure ;)
[21:38] <jcastro> qense, seahorse could use a look if you want to get into Vala
[21:38] <qense> jcastro: are the Vala bindings already included?
[21:38] <Nafai> I was looking forward to that :)
[21:39] <qense> I don't want to steal Nafai's fun. ;)
[21:39] <jcastro> qense, I believe njpatel has some mostly-finished-stuff that with some prodding would make him finish them
[21:40] <qense> jcastro: is that bug #510610, or is it somewhere else?
[21:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 510610 in indicator-application "Add Vala bindings (affects: 3)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510610
[21:40] <jcastro> yep, that's it
[21:41] <qense> ok
[21:42] <jcastro> qense, if you want an easy one look at gnome-gmail-notifier
[21:42] <qense> does anyone actually use that still?
[21:42] <jcastro> I do!
[21:42] <qense> but it uses Bonobo!
[21:42] <jcastro> heh
[21:42] <Nafai> I want something that works
[21:42] <qense> and the whole libgnome stack
[21:42] <jcastro> qense, ok, how about banshee or epiphany or ekiga?
[21:42] <Nafai> But gnome-gmail-notifier isn't installable
[21:43] <Nafai> It needs to be updated to use a new version of libsoup
[21:44] <Nafai> bratsche: I'll work on a small test case for the insensitivy issue next week
[21:44] <qense> I'll probably take a look at Banshee, since I'm using it myself as well and would want it to use AppInd. It does use quite a 'sophisticated' tray icon system. Lots of classes, etc.
[21:44] <qense> Nafai: jcastro can make everything install when he wants it to
[21:44] <jcastro> qense, upstream (abock) has shown interest, but doesn't have time to do the work
[21:44] <jcastro> qense, I think he wouldn't mind losing the crack
[21:44] <bratsche> Nafai: I posted the branch that watches for visibility changes, so that should fix another issue you're having for gnome-bluetooth.
[21:45] <qense> probably
[21:45] <Nafai> bratsche: oh, cool.
[21:45] <Nafai> I'm having problems getting this to build in pbuilder
[21:45] <qense> gnome-gmail-notifier: Depends: libsoup2.2-8 (>= 2.2.98) but it is not installable
[21:45] <Nafai> qense, Yes, that's the problem :)
[21:46] <qense> I'm reporting the bug
[21:48] <jcastro> qense, can you confirm that g-c-c is using the app indicator when you get a chance? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/497857
[21:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 497857 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Support application indicators (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
[21:49] <jcastro> I just fired it up but it went in the old tray
[21:49] <qense> jcastro: will check
[21:49] <Nafai> jcastro: Do you have the very latest package?
[21:50] <jcastro> Nafai, I have a bunch of updates of libappindicator stuff
[21:50]  * jcastro upgrades
[21:50] <Nafai> hrm
[21:50] <Nafai> It is working for me :)
[21:50] <jcastro> I am checking on all my stuff, I just want another person to confirm so I am not crazy
[21:51] <qense> bug 521185
[21:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 521185 in gnome-gmail-notifier (Ubuntu) "gnome-gmail-notifier: Depends: libsoup2.2-8 (>= 2.2.98) but it is not installable (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521185
[21:54] <qense> jcastro: where is the tray icon used in gnome-c-c?
[21:54] <Nafai> qense, gnome typing monitor
[21:54] <qense> thanks
[21:55] <Nafai> np
[21:57] <Nafai> uh
[21:57] <jcastro> which one does the Display icon?
[21:58] <jcastro> for switching resolutions, etc.
[21:58] <Nafai> I don't know, I didn't seen a GtkStatusIcon anywhere else
[21:58] <Nafai> Though I think I remember jpetersen mentioned something about earlier
[21:58] <qense> I don't see a systray icon for display-properties
[21:59] <jcastro> you have to check the box
[21:59] <jcastro> it's the thing Federico just blogged abotu
[22:00] <qense> is that already in Lucid?
[22:00] <jcastro> gnome-control-center: /usr/bin/gnome-display-properties
[22:00] <jcastro> no but the current one is in there and has a checkbox to put the display thing in the panel
[22:00] <qense> ah, that one
[22:00] <qense> nope, no AppIndicator support here as well
[22:01] <jcastro> Nafai, let's investigate that one after the current list.
[22:01] <Nafai> ok
[22:02] <GogglesGuy> hmmm I'm getting:Getting layout failed on client :1.85 object /StatusMenu: Expected type guint, got type code 's'"
[22:02] <GogglesGuy> doesn't GetLayout return a string?
[22:03] <tedg> GogglesGuy: A string and an uint.  XML for the layout and the uint for the revision.
[22:06] <GogglesGuy> Ah, I must be using some older definition then...
[22:17] <qense> A problem with Banshee is that its own notification system must go. We cannot show bubbles or squares at an AppInd icon, can we?
[22:20] <tedg> qense: No, there's a guide for porting some of that in the notify-osd porting guide.
[22:20] <tedg> qense: As the big change there was in notify-osd making apps unable to position notifications.
[22:21] <qense> tedg: OK, I'll have a look there, thanks. Banshee should already be using Notify-OSD for a lot of things iirc, but now the last remained of its own system will go.
[22:29] <GogglesGuy> When I send the menu layout with for example: <menu id=0> the indicator-application will crash. Changing it to <menu id="0"> will make it work. Shouldn't both be valid?
[22:43] <tedg> GogglesGuy: Uhm, I think that the quotes are needed for valid XML...  but none the less, even with invalid XML, it shouldn't crash.
[22:45] <Nafai> So I'm having problem trying to build packages locally for the app indicators, using bratsche's patches
[22:54] <Nafai> tedg, bratsche: got a moment?
[22:54] <tedg> Nafai: Actually, I need to run right now... sorry.
[22:54] <Nafai> :)
[22:54] <bratsche> Nafai: What's the problem?
[22:55] <Nafai> I'm usually good at this, but having problems trying to build packages locally :)
[22:55] <Nafai> I checked out the packaging branch, then merged in your changes with it, then tried building it with pbuilder
[22:55] <bratsche> Nafai: Actually don't worry about it, I already tested the visibility changing part of it and ted has merged it into trunk.
[22:55] <Nafai> Oh sweet :)
[22:56] <Nafai> so there will be packages soon?
[22:56] <bratsche> Nafai: The part I didn't test was if you actually add or remove menuitems to the GtkMenu after you've added it.  I think it should work, but I didn't test.  If you find any apps that do this, let me know.. I'd be interested to know if it works or not. :)
[22:56] <Nafai> Yeah, gnome bluetooth does, I think
[22:56] <bratsche> We should ping kenvandine about updating the indicator-application package.
[22:57] <bratsche> Okay, well once this gets up into the PPA let me know if there's anything more I can do with it for you.
[22:57] <bratsche> I'm probably going to head out pretty soon too, but you can msg me on irc or drop me an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[22:58] <Nafai> thanks
[22:58] <Nafai> does the ppa have lucid packages?
[22:58] <jcastro> qense, transmission icon is broken for me in a-i
[22:58] <bratsche> I'm not sure.
[22:58] <jcastro> qense, also, IMO the banshee one would end up looking just like the existing RB one.
[22:58] <bratsche> I would assume so though.
[22:59] <jcastro> qense, though they have submenus for repeat and shuffle.
[23:00] <qense> jcastro: the transmission icon is indeed broken, I've sent a patch upstream to fix that, but that patch only works when it's broken, otherwise the icon won't show up
[23:00] <qense> it's all very weird
[23:00] <qense> http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2900
[23:01] <qense> The patch uses TRAY_ICON as icon name when it doesn't exist and if it does it uses "transmission" (whoops) That does work, fix the patch and it stops working.
[23:02] <jcastro> qense, ok, after we finish getting these in before featurefreeze we can go through them all
[23:03] <qense> jcastro: the appindicator support will be included in Transmission 1.90, cjohnson had a talk with the devs about its release date.
[23:03] <jcastro> yeah that's awesome
[23:03] <qense> I just hope that I can figure out what's wrong with my patch. :S
[23:03] <jcastro> this has motivated me to switch to Transmission
[23:03] <jcastro> was using Deluge before
[23:04] <qense> :)
[23:04] <qense> Transmission is a really neat bittorent tracker
[23:04] <qense> it even has a nice web interface and a daemon!
[23:08] <jcastro> Nafai, I was thinking (outloud) that the typing break should be more like "timer-applet"
[23:09] <jcastro> it's a little countdown clock thing I found that is handy
[23:09] <Nafai> hrm, I think I've tried it
[23:09] <jcastro> it's a little pie chart that counts down
[23:09] <jcastro> but I don't know what design people think of it.
[23:10] <Nafai> yeah
[23:11] <Nafai> That would be nice, and it would be a non annoying animation that makes sense