[00:29] <wxl> aw jeez i didn't realize we had a qt session within bionic :O
[00:33] <tsimonq2> O_O
[00:34] <wxl> apparently you didn't eiether
[00:34] <wxl> XD
[00:34] <wxl> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2018-May/011972.html
[00:37] <wxl> like maybe we need to update lubuntu-default-settings for that, tsimonq2 ?
[00:51] <tsimonq2> wxl: We need to find out if qlubuntu-default-session is a thing by default.
[00:52] <tsimonq2> wxl: Speaking of that, am I fine to rework the default settings package in Cosmic? We *really* need to get that sorted out.
[00:52] <tsimonq2> wxl: (i.e. move deprecated and LXDE bits elsewhere)
[00:53] <wxl> tsimonq2: there's no qlubuntu or qt according to the manifest
[00:53] <tsimonq2> wxl: hmmmm
[00:53] <wxl> even looking for q's i'm not finding much
[00:54] <wxl> yes, we need to move forward with lxqt
[00:54] <tsimonq2> OK, want to review or should I JFDI and upload?
[00:54] <wxl> i trust it to be fine
[00:54] <tsimonq2> OK.
[00:55] <wxl> unless you expect there to be something particularly controversial
[00:55] <tsimonq2> Nah.
[00:55] <tsimonq2> I'll keep files, just move them to another Git repo or something.
[00:56] <wxl> for future reference you can finger the manifest like so: `wget --quiet -O - http://whatever.manifest | grep something-here`
[00:56] <tsimonq2> ah
[00:57] <tsimonq2> There's some extra branches lying around; I'll use my best judgement here.
[00:57] <wxl> when in doubt, ask
[00:57] <tsimonq2> Alright.
[00:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-default-settings] tsimonq2 deleted bionic at 682d886: https://git.io/vpQbi
[00:58] <wxl> better to move slowly and surely
[00:58] <tsimonq2> yep
[00:58] <wxl> just like with driving :)
[00:58] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-default-settings] tsimonq2 deleted default-settings-rework at 32b4b09: https://git.io/vAq6C
[00:58] <tsimonq2> hah
[00:59] <tsimonq2> wxl: By the way, the GitHub support for IRC integration is going away.
[00:59] <tsimonq2> We have to find a different way now. :(
[00:59] <wxl> booooooooooo
[00:59] <tsimonq2> ikr
[00:59] <wxl> move to gitlab :/
[00:59] <tsimonq2> Maybe Phab can do that.
[00:59] <tsimonq2> Dunno.
[00:59] <tsimonq2> But we have a few months.
[00:59] <wxl> maybe
[00:59] <wxl> i don't think so
[00:59] <tsimonq2> Worth checking out.
[01:00] <wxl> they're very much about dogfooding
[01:00] <wxl> and they have their own chatty thing
[01:00] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[01:47] <tsimonq2> wxl: Done.
[01:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-default-settings] tsimonq2 pushed 10 new commits to ubuntu/cosmic: https://git.io/vpQxX
[01:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- lubuntu-default-settings/ubuntu/cosmic 4094e39 Simon Quigley: Move all the unused default settings to lp:~lubuntu-dev/lubuntu-default-settings/+git/deprecated.
[01:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- lubuntu-default-settings/ubuntu/cosmic 6b33ea1 Simon Quigley: Update to debhelper compat 11.
[01:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- lubuntu-default-settings/ubuntu/cosmic ca14197 Simon Quigley: Update to Standards-version 4.1.4.
[01:48] <tsimonq2> We can see how things turned out on the next daily, but things should be fine.
[01:48] <tsimonq2> wxl: One last thing; lubuntu-artwork needs refinement too.
[01:55] <tsimonq2> @VikingRedwolf: I won't touch anything in lubuntu-artwork for now, and of course this is up to you, but as an alternative wallpaper it'd be cool if you could put a cosmic spin on one of the old wallpapers. :)
 A third one?
 Ok
 Have you noticed I'm already in the "space" way? ;)
 @VikingRedwolf, you predicted the future
 I'm scared now 😐
 (Sticker, 512x512) http://vps.tsimonq2.net//file_3994.webp
 Not specifically Lubuntu-related, but:
[14:20] <lubot2> https://twitter.com/tsimonq2/status/996394434886553600
[17:09] <wxl> oh and @vikingredwolf fix that beaver :)
[17:12] <wxl> @tsimonq2: for some reason vps.tsimonq2.net is not loading over here
[17:12] <wxl> connection refused on both 80 and 443
[17:12] <wxl> tl;dr telegram media is broken on irc
 Argh.
 OK.
[17:27] <wxl> @vikingredwolf correct me if i'm wrong but this is a skype bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1771360
[17:28] <wxl> oh and @tsimonq2 to state this officially: if canonical drops infrastructure for i386 images, i'm on board. slangsek's last email to -devel kind of suggested as such, so that's probably the direction it will go
[17:48] <wxl> yep
[19:11] <wxl> @vikingredwolf are you in charge of facebook?
 NOT IT.
 :)))))))
[19:12] <wxl> yeah, it's not me
[19:13] <wxl> i want nothing to do it
[19:13] <wxl> with it
 Me neither.
[19:13] <wxl> i'm have been meaning to delete my account
[19:13] <wxl> that said, either you're the boss or we need to remove those
[19:13] <wxl> (or someone else needs to be given the task)
 Let's just pawn it off on Raf. XD
[19:40] <wxl> @tsimonq2: did you figure out what needs to happen with debian-cd to get calamares working from the "install lubuntu" option?
 @wxl, Not quite yet.
[19:41] <wxl> @tsimonq2: but it's on your list or do you need smoething else?
 @wxl, Nah, it's on my list.
[19:53] <wxl> @tsimonq2: is that also true with the session not found?
 @wxl, That should be fixed when the default settings migrates.
 But, it won't migrate until I do a seed update and a lubuntu-artwork update.
[19:54] <wxl> okie
 OH, and before I forget, if you want something easy to do wxl, you can propose an MP to lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu carving out Lubuntu.
 It would make proposed migration faster.
 Plus, old code is yucky. We don't use that slideshow anymore.
[19:55] <wxl> i'll maybe get to that tonight
[19:55] <wxl> right now i'm dealing with goofy bugs :)
 In fact... I need to figure out slideshows in Cala. Raf (rightfully so) had some concerns with how easy it was to customize the slideshow (which, it isn't), so a solution needs to be made for that.
 @wxl, Share with the class. ;)
[19:57] <wxl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanfm-qt/+bug/1768961
 You know the whole deal with the xorg patch I had to write, right?
[19:58] <wxl> no
 Finding...
 wxl: https://salsa.debian.org/xorg-team/xorg/merge_requests/2
 Keep that in mind when doing XDG work.
[20:02] <wxl> ok so help me out here
 Yea
[20:02] <wxl> hold on
[20:04] <wxl> nevermind i'm good
 OK qool.
[20:06] <wxl> the problem, i'm almost sure of, is that he forgot to chown his folders
 Hah.
[20:08] <wxl> i'm going to add those two things (install lubuntu, session not found) on phab. feel free to elaborate on them if you like. maybe make one for the slideshow and assign it to me with any info you might have that's particularly useful (though it's probably just a delete)
[20:09] <wxl> i found out my answer to my mk-sbuild problem so i can deal with the other idea i was going to implement (eject in openbox config)
[20:10] <wxl> could you also go through https://phab.lubuntu.me/T14 and see if anything needs to be updated
 Roger that, thanks wxl.
[20:11] <wxl> OMG OPENGOO YES WE NEED TO INCLUDE GAMES
[20:12] <wxl> all seriousness aside, i think games are nice, but simple ones. think windows.
[20:16] <parhelia> something like GNOME Games?
[20:32] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-manual] ianorlin opened pull request #43: update Progress sorry for procrastinating this (master...master) https://git.io/vp5H2
[20:36] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [lubuntu-manual] ianorlin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vp5Hh
[20:36] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- lubuntu-manual/master 99df073 Lyn Perrine: update Progress sorry for procrastinating this (#43)
[23:49] <wxl> @tsimonq2: maybe we should deprecate l.n/lubuntu-next or at least turn off bug reporting. thoughts?


[13:32] <arges> is there any way to target an ubuntu package to a series if its in this state -> bug 1386524 (trying to target to vivid)
[13:37] <rbasak> Is that the Launchpad bug where if you delete a bug task it's gone forever?
[13:38] <arges> rbasak: yea, i'm not sure if the vivid task was deleted or just the development task... but maybe its a similar 'feature'
[13:38] <rbasak> Looks like they all were
[13:38] <rbasak> AIUI there's no way out of that.
[13:38] <rbasak> Not sure what the bug reference is for this issue.
[13:38] <rbasak> It has Affected Me Too.
[13:39] <rbasak> Once you know, you can never delete bug tasks (Invalidate them instead) as a pre-workaround.
[13:39] <rbasak> But it doesn't work unless everyone knows not to do it, which they don't.
[13:42] <cjwatson> In [2]: lp.bugs[1386524].addTask(target='/ubuntu/vivid/+source/valgrind')
[13:42] <cjwatson> Out[2]: <bug_task at https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/vivid/+source/valgrind/+bug/1386524>
[13:42] <cjwatson> done
[13:42] <arges> cjwatson: thanks!
[13:43] <cjwatson> I can't remember if that works in all situations, but it's useful enough to work around at least some UI problems
[13:45] <arges> cjwatson: good to know, adding to my bag of tricks
[14:09] <rtg> infinity, linux (wily) in the unapproved queue
[14:25] <smoser> can someone review my curtin upload please ? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=curtin . pretty simple. fixes busted install.
[14:34] <infinity> rtg: Accepted and heading to bed, I'll check on it when I wake up to see if anything asploded.
[14:34] <rtg> infinity, ack
[15:34] <arges> cyphermox: hi looking at the multipath-tools upload for trusty, does that fix the failures seen in the -proposed version?
[15:35] <arges> cyphermox: bug 1468897, does multipath -l work?
[15:36] <cyphermox> arges: yes, that's the point of that new upload :)
[15:36] <arges> cyphermox: ok, wasn't exactly clear. which is why I was asking
[15:36] <cyphermox> I can go do it again right now if you want
[15:37] <arges> cyphermox: well you'll have to just re-verify it when it hits -proposed
[15:37] <cyphermox> yep
[15:37] <arges> cyphermox: cool thanks, i'll review that again soon
[15:38] <cyphermox> arges: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12705401/
[15:38] <cyphermox> no worries, when it gets to -proposed I and others will review/and verify it again
[15:39] <arges> cyphermox: great! ok
[18:40] <davmor2> infinity, cyphermox: did we get a final yay or neigh to wubi removal?
[18:41] <cyphermox> don't look at me, I'm not release-team :)
[18:41] <davmor2> cyphermox: oh fair enough over to infinity then
[18:44] <cyphermox> I think he's sleeping for now, it may be a while before he responds
[18:45] <davmor2> cyphermox: damn him and his different timezone ;)
[18:53] <cyphermox> there is no such thing as a timezone :)
[18:58] <slangasek> bdmurray: hmm, does adding the sssd team to package-subscribers imply this team is a recognized subscribing team for MIR purposes?
[19:08] <bdmurray> slangasek: Yes
[19:10] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok.  that seems dubious to me; it's a team with only two people and doesn't map to anything that's accountable to either Ubuntu (flavor teams) or Canonical (company teams)
[19:10] <slangasek> I mean, we already have problems with some of the existing ownership mappings, I don't think we need to make it worse by introducing even more specialized teams :)
[19:14] <bdmurray> I see your point.
[19:17] <bdmurray> I'll dig into why I added them, it was a bit ago.
[19:30] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok
[22:21] <bdmurray> slangasek: fwiw bug 1491263 is the MIR that used the sssd team
[23:11] <slangasek> bdmurray: hrm ok
[23:31] <slangasek> bdmurray: and the original sssd MIR was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sssd/+bug/903752 - before we had the "must have subscriber" but, I think?
[23:42] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes, that sounds right


[12:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: please merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/casper/ubiquity again; sorry for the mistake
[12:16] <Kamion> jcole: no, but you can copy it from any Ubuntu CD; it's generated by the CD image build scripts
[12:30] <jcole> Kamion: thanks
[12:32] <ohoel> the livecd installer seems to crash after time zone setup, and proceed spawning partman, parted_server, perfor_recipe among others
[12:32] <ohoel> does the installer generate any useful error logs anywhere?
[12:39] <ohoel> is "live-installer" the correct package to file a bug against in this case (kubuntu beta livecd installer)
[12:44] <ohoel> filed as bug 40666
[12:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40666 in live-installer "Installer crashes after name setup" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40666
[02:06] <bddebian> Hi peoples
[03:10] <nix4me> has the slow firefox in dapper beta been reported?  i have searched launchpad and there are so many bugs against firefox with so many comments that I can't make heads or tails
[03:11] <bluefoxicy> eh
[03:11] <bluefoxicy> i'm going to try to negotiate with the q3f guys, what the hell.
[03:16] <crimsun> nix4me: yes, numerous times.
[03:17] <nix4me> ok, thanks for the reply.
[03:29] <mdke> anyone here to help me with a question about how to use sed?
[03:30] <mdke> I'm trying to go through a text file to replace certain instances. I'm doing: "sed -i -e s@blah@blah@g filename
[03:30] <mdke> and that works
[03:30] <mdke> however, in this particular instance, blah in the text file has inverted commas around it, and I want to include them in the expression too, but that doesn't seem to work with that command
[03:30] <mdke> any ideas?
[03:31] <jdong> not to steals mdke's thunder, but thanks for l-r-m <IP_ADDRESS>-1
[03:32] <jdong> the ATI X1600 and the ipw3945 support
[03:32] <jdong> you've made me buy a core duo :)
[03:32] <bddebian> heh
[03:32] <jdong> Dapper is going to rock
[03:33] <Chipzz> how can I file a bug against the ubuntu website?
[03:33] <jdong> can we rename the release to the "This should keep jdong quiet for a while" release?
[03:33] <bddebian> hehe
[03:33] <mdke> Chipzz, you can't. what is it?
[03:34] <Chipzz> mdke: packages.ubuntu.com "Search the contents of packages" not including dapper, although it works if you replace breezy with dapper in the url
[03:34] <Chipzz> quite annoying actually :/
[03:34] <mdke> Chipzz, that's not part of the ubuntu website. You need to email the maintainer of the site, his email is on the page
[03:37] <Chipzz> done
[03:38] <jdong> 40687 :)
[03:46] <mdke> sed question answered, nm
[04:11] <robertj> ack...slashdot title "Previewing Dapper And Edgy"
[04:36] <Amaranth> stupid xchat python
[04:53] <Lathiat> mjg59: hrm, i'm thinking the alps could do with a slightly faster speed
[06:38] <intelikey> STAFF    what tod (time of day) are the repos updated ?   i'll stop my dl for that just in case.
[06:40] <intelikey> dialup makes for long down load time.....
[07:37] <nomed> hi all
[07:38] <nomed> Kamion:  around ?
[07:39] <nomed> i have a question about seeds .. it seems gdm installs gnome-session but it could even be fine with xterm|x-window-manager|x-terminal-emulator
[09:32] <Kamion> nomed: germinate generally picks the first alternative unless another is explicitly seeded (and even then it may not reliably avoid picking the first alternative)
[09:33] <nomed> Kamion: yep i got it ..
[09:33] <nomed> i see there is even a blacklist
[09:34] <nomed> i'll take a look if gnome-session is called just by gdm
[09:34] <nomed> in that case would it be possible blacklist it ?
[09:35] <nomed> or will it need to be installed as apt-get install xterm gdm for ex ?
[09:38] <nomed> well i'll make some tests later .. and i'll ask to janimo to fix the seeds where and if needed
[09:42] <klepas> where is the sabdfl
[09:42] <klepas> :)
[09:59] <Kamion> nomed: we don't really use the blacklist any more, and I doubt it still works. easiest to explicitly seed xterm, try it, and see what happens.
[10:00] <nomed> Kamion: k
[10:15] <rohan> the espresso installer on the dapper beta live cd always _always_ hangs after selecting time zone. can i do some debugging for pasting in a bug report ?
[10:36] <_ion> First note: it modified sources.list intelligently. The se.archive.ubuntu.com lines had breezy changed to dapper, and unofficial repositories got a # in front of them.
[11:06] <Keybuk> ah, I love this time of the morning
[11:07] <\sh> Keybuk: nice weather in uk?
[11:08] <_ion> Let me guess: it's raining.
[11:08] <Keybuk> nope, dreary
[11:08] <Keybuk> _ion: nah, hardly ever rains here
[11:09] <StevenK> It mostly drizzles instead? :-P
[11:10] <\sh> oh then I'm really a lucky guy, the last two days temperatures over 20 degrees C and you can see the spring's coming to germany...the women skirts are morphing into something which is most likely to named as "belt" ;)
[11:11] <StevenK> \sh: Or 'small teatowel'
[11:11] <\sh> yeah :)
[11:14] <Keybuk> heh
[11:14] <Keybuk> there were lots of scantily clad pretty things at Alton Towers on Monday
[11:14] <Keybuk> which is a shame, because it rained
[11:15] <StevenK> Now it's getting colder here, the number of scantily-clad pretty things is very limited.
[11:17] <lifeless> Keybuk: wet t-shirt!
[11:17] <infinity> StevenK: Does it comfort you to know that I'm not wearing pants?
[11:17] <Keybuk> lifeless: there was that attraction briefly, yes
[11:17] <Keybuk> but they all went home
[11:18] <Keybuk> it got wet enough that we decided to go on the water rides
[11:18] <Keybuk> and the boyfriend got absolutely soaked on the flume and was grumpy for the rest of the day
[11:18] <Keybuk> lol
[11:19] <lifeless> Keybuk: haha!
[11:19] <StevenK> lifeless: Not at all.
[11:20] <lifeless> StevenK: ECONTEXT
[11:20] <StevenK> Sorry, wrong person.
[11:20] <StevenK> infinity: Not at all.
[11:21] <infinity> Well, pfeh.  I'm insulted.
[11:21] <infinity> Zofia's not wearing pants either, if that helps.
[11:21] <StevenK> Heh.
[11:21] <lifeless> what is it meant to help with :)
[11:21] <StevenK> It's much too cold to not wear pants.
[11:21] <infinity> With StevenK's lament about people rugging up for what Australia calls "winter".
[11:22] <lifeless> ah
[11:22] <infinity> I refuse to call it winter until I see snow.
[11:22] <lifeless> .au just gets an absence of summer.
[11:22] <lifeless> not a winter
[11:22] <infinity> Maybe I should go to Tasmania this year for a few days.
[11:23] <StevenK> My sisters just came back from Tasmania, actually.
[11:23] <Keybuk> we should send the Australians to Montral or Oslo for the winter
[11:23] <infinity> Keybuk: Seems fair, since I've been forced to deal with a *lack* of winter for the last two years.
[11:23] <infinity> They can bloody well suffer too.
[11:23] <StevenK> Hah
[11:27] <lifeless> StevenK: are you a sydneysider
[11:27] <lifeless> ?
[11:27] <infinity> Oh well.  I'm just hurt that I apparently don't qualify as a "pretty young thing".
[11:30] <StevenK> lifeless: Yes.
[11:31] <lifeless> StevenK: ah. Have we met ?
[11:31] <StevenK> lifeless: Yup.
[11:31] <lifeless> heh.
[11:33] <StevenK> lifeless: If you remember the Debsig when Jeff showed Warty, I was there.
[11:33] <lifeless> vaguely ;)
[11:34] <StevenK> lifeless: You promoted Linda to main for me.
[11:35] <lifeless> ?!
[11:35] <lifeless> anyway I read that I'm confused
[11:35] <StevenK> Well, organised to have it done.
[11:35] <lifeless> oh, that I can believe
[11:40] <Keybuk> Kamion: if all else fails, we could use "Pissed CD1", etc. :p
[11:42] <Keybuk> Kamion: I believe that the noun is "Lounge" though
[11:44] <\sh> infinity: what? you are not a "pretty young thing" anymore? welcome to the club :)
[11:44] <Keybuk> oh, I don't know, infinity is quite alluring in the right light ;)
[11:47] <\sh> hmm..I have to do some research, why FAI is not working on ubuntu server
[11:49] <\sh> there's something wrong with some diverts in fai-nfsroot and the dhclient package..cost me 6 hours of time to replace ubuntu server with sarge :(
[12:08] <mdke> Kamion, around?
[12:22] <mdke> Diziet, the translated homepages aren't working: I get "Can't find file file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index-it_IT.html" from firefox in italian
[12:22] <\sh> same for de_DE and en_GB
[12:22] <mdke> thanks
[12:49] <highvoltage> Znarl: ping
[01:29] <sivang> re all
[01:59] <hunger> My laptop (Thinkpad T43p) no longer suspends properly in dapper (display does not come back on). Is that a known regression frem breezy or should I report this?
[02:02] <mdke> hunger, report it. Actually, my T43 doesn't either, but it has a different video card, so file a separate bug
[02:03] <hunger> ~.
[02:04] <hunger> mdke: Hmmm... this is with kpowersave.
[02:05] <hunger> mdke: Using "pmi action sleep" it fails to suspend and just comes back.
[02:05] <hunger> I'd guess pmi fails due to this bluetooth stuff. Had that before.
[02:08] <Trewas> hunger: my x41 requires acpi_sleep=s3_bios kernel option to get the screen back on after suspend, though it still fails to wake the sata disk succesfully with the dapper kernel (a known bug)
[02:10] <Znarl> highvoltage : Pong?
[02:10] <mdke> hunger, anything that doesn't work is a bug, you should file it.
[02:11] <hunger> Trewas: This used to work with breezy and it did work in dapper a couple of weeks back.
[02:11] <mdke> ... so it's a bug ... go file!
[02:12] <hunger> It is completly eratic!
[02:12] <hunger> I tried 4 times now and saw 3 different ways of suspend failing:-(
[02:12] <Trewas> hunger: i just got that laptop and directly installed dapper flight 6 so I don't know how it would have worked with breezy or older dapper
[02:12] <mdke> dude, that's still a bug.
[02:12] <mdke> that's better.
[02:13] <mdke> if you like, continue to discuss it on #ubuntu-laptop
[02:17] <mjg59> Lathiat: It's fairly easy to patch
[02:23] <hunger> Damn... I accidentally reported the bug to be on baltix (whatever that is). How do I change that again?
[02:24] <mdke> hunger, open a task on distribution: Ubuntu. Then reject the baltix one
[02:26] <hunger> I really think twice before reporting anything on ubuntu because lp keeps confusing the hell out of me.
[02:28] <mdke> hunger, you need to talk to #launchpad about that, not here
[02:29] <hunger> Would it be possible to decide on a more consistent naming scheme for old logfiles in ubuntu
[02:29] <hunger> Some are *.1.log, some *.log.1, some are gzipped others are not.
[02:30] <hunger> Some have have the numbers start with 0 others with 1.
[02:32] <infinity> hunger: That depends on if daemons use logrotate or savelog or some internal mechanism.
[02:32] <infinity> hunger: Everything using logrotate should have reasonably similar behaviour.
[02:35] <hunger> infinity: Nope.
[02:36] <hunger> infinity: Even the logrotate things are all different. Some compress their files, others don't. The number of files keapt seems to be more are less random.
[02:38] <hunger> infinity: The schedule differs, but that is understandable:-)
[02:38] <infinity> Having some keep more than others is intentional.
[02:38] <infinity> Example of a logrotate-using package that keeps more than 3 logfiles and doesn't compress?
[02:40] <hunger> infinity: Dunno what the default number of files is.
[02:41] <hunger> infinity: dirmngr does not compress and uses the default number of files.
[02:41] <infinity> Then file a bug.  That's not something I have installed. :)
[02:41] <infinity> (And it's universe)
[02:45] <hunger> infinity: Hmmm.... why do most packages specify "compress"? Why isen't the default value used as set up in logrotate.conf?
[02:52] <sivang> can anybody see this issue - I'm cliking on the battery meter, and the network monitor on the upper right corner,
[02:52] <sivang> and nothing happens
[02:53] <sivang> when I got and right/left clikc on the panel somewhere where there are no applets,
[02:53] <sivang> it behaves as expected.
[02:53] <sivang> veyr weird
[02:55] <sivang> hmm, it got released now
[02:55] <sivang> *strange*
[02:56] <sivang> nice, stuck again
[03:14] <Fjodor> Am i wrong in assuming linx11-6 fiddles with iso-8859 locales instead of utf-8 ones? It seems that lib's own locales are of the iso variety, whereas other system locales are utf8?
[03:15] <Fjodor> s/linx11-6/libx11-6
[03:15] <jdong> sivang: I can't confirm that on my laptop or desktop running latest Dapper...
[03:15] <jdong> and speaking of laptops and batteries....
[03:16] <jdong> is there any GNOME mechanism of interacting with CPU frequency scaling, like powersaved/kpowersave for KDE?
[03:16] <jdong> I find that to be a very useful feature
[03:19] <sivang> jdong: see if all applets are accessible and respons by cliking hem with the touch pad,
[03:19] <sivang> jdong: then, if so, leave it alone for few secs
[03:19] <jdong> you mean tapping with the touchpad?
[03:19] <sivang> jdong: then, go to the CPU scale freq applet that show the freq
[03:20] <sivang> jdong: and give it a few taps
[03:20] <sivang> jdong: , then try to right click one of the other applets
[03:20] <sivang> jdong: yes
[03:22] <rohan> hi all..
[03:22] <highvoltage> hi rohan
[03:22] <rohan> i found this critical bug with espresso -- it always ALWAYS hangs when after i select what disk as swap / boot etc.
[03:22] <rohan> hi, highvoltage
[03:22] <rohan> so what i did is
[03:22] <rohan> straced through it
[03:23] <jdong> sivang: certain tapping speeds will turn my cursor into a hand, and then the mouse cannot click interact with anything else
[03:23] <mdke> rohan, you can file bugs at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[03:23] <rohan> and did tail -f on another terminal
[03:23] <jdong> sivang: is this what you're seeing?
[03:23] <rohan> mdke: listen to me first. !
[03:23] <mdke> rohan, it's a saturday, you're very unlikely to find the espresso developer online
[03:23] <rohan> and on stracing, i found that the computer crashes COMPLETELY no mouse no X
[03:23] <mdke> best to go straight to the bug tracker
[03:23] <rohan> and strace shows waitpid(somepid, someno, NOHANG)
[03:24] <jdong> rohan: we aren't all omnipotent..... your best bet is really the bug tracker....
[03:24] <rohan> what i want to ask is .. is there any way to get the process attached to that pid ?
[03:24] <rohan> jdong, mdke : thats what i intend to do.
[03:25] <rohan> or atleast, get more verbose strace output ?
[03:25] <rohan> and there is no way i can attach that log since pc crashes surely
[03:25] <sivang> jdong: maybe, only I don't see the hand curosor
[03:25] <sivang> jdong: and it just hangs, until I cleck on another spot ont the panel, or just attempt to ad a new panel applet
[03:26] <jdong> sivang: I managed to get it stuck on a hand cursor permanently
[03:26] <sivang> jdong: cool, I guess I just don't get the hand curoser
[03:26] <jdong> sivang: I can't use keyboard or mouse clicks to interact with anything
[03:26] <sivang> jdong: I wonder if this cpufreq's fault
[03:26] <jdong> interesting thought
[03:27] <sivang> jdong: since I tried that same scenario on al of the other applets, none of them exhibited the same behavior
[03:27] <jdong> interesting
[03:27] <sivang> (all of those that come pre-set on the panel, that is)
[03:27] <jdong> are there any other applets that behave like cpufreq's, though
[03:27] <jdong> i.e. no single or double click actions
[03:27] <sivang> hmm
[03:27] <jdong> I have a feeling GNOME's default action takes over
[03:27] <jdong> which appears to be some type of move...
[03:28] <jdong> but little random movements that seem to come with my inability to double-tap may be causing a weird situation
[03:28] <sivang> jdong: okay, this now happend to me with double clicking without tapping
[03:28] <sivang> jdong: so it's not strictly a tapping problem I'd say
[03:28] <zyga> hello
[03:28] <jdong> interesting
[03:28] <zyga> sivang: hi, how are you?
[03:28] <jdong> hi, zyga
[03:28] <zyga> hey :)
[03:29] <sivang> hey zyga , am fine, been bit of sick during before and a bit after the beta
[03:29] <zyga> sivang: I'm sorry to hear that
[03:29] <sivang> zyga: this is wy I was offline/ unresponsive
[03:29] <zyga> hope you get better quickly
[03:29] <sivang> zyga: thanks :)
[03:29] <zyga> sivang: how did you like the new glade looks?
[03:30] <sivang> zyga: re your GUI, I deferred using it for now, I made my original design packed and small such that it would fit into 1024x768, and I will most probably use your design  and aggregate on it for the next version, eventually I came to realize it caused me too much work to make it for the new one.
[03:31] <zyga> okay
[03:31] <sivang> zyga: I cherry picked the lozalization fixes, would like you to give them a go once you've got time
[03:31] <zyga> sure, this evening maybe?
[03:31] <sivang> zyga: and ofcouse, tried to kep the empty labels untranslated
[03:31] <zyga> I'm visiting parents today so no laptop with code :)
[03:32] <sivang> zyga: we can do that tomorrow even,
[03:32] <sivang> zyga: if it's more comfy to you?
[03:32] <sivang> zyga: I don't require alot of time AFAICT
[03:32] <zyga> I don't know - I'll probably be online hacking my kernel so just ping me if you need anything :)
[03:32] <kmon> anyone knows why the linux-image-2.6.15-21 is not yet in the archive?
[03:32] <sivang> zyga: okay, deal, if I see you online, I'll ping
[03:32] <jdong> kmon: I was wondering the same
[03:32] <jdong> kmon: also the l-r-m .32
[03:33] <zyga> sivang: great :)
[03:33] <kmon> jdong: yes. I wanted to try the new ati fglrx driver
[03:33] <jdong> I've been anxiously waiting for a livecd image to contain both of these, so I can test it on the laptop I'm about to buy
[03:33] <zyga> jdong: buy a mac :)
[03:33] <jdong> kmon: likewise; this guy's got a X1400
[03:33] <zyga> ubuntu fits nicely on a mac :)
[03:33] <jdong> zyga: you find me a core duo mac laptop in the $1200 range, and we'll talk :)
[03:33] <zyga> hehe
[03:34] <jdong> zyga: I love macs. I really do. I just can't justify the price to myself
[03:34] <zyga> I'm aiming for ibook g4 after they release mac book replacement for ibooks
[03:34] <zyga> they'll be cheap and nice :D
[03:34] <jdong> zyga: a G4 vs a core duo? ;)
[03:34] <zyga> jdong: sure, g4 is all I ever need in a laptop
[03:35] <zyga> the only thing better in the core duo is probably battery life if they managed to crank that 1/2 the laptop-size battery
[03:35] <jdong> zyga: I'd say the same; but I do need a SMP system....
[03:35] <zyga> (note: g4 has really really small battery)
[03:35] <jdong> zyga: single core systems don't keep up with my multitasking
[03:35] <sivang> t43p especially :)
[03:35] <zyga> :-)
[03:35] <jdong> sivang: my 2nd pick was a lenovo...
[03:35] <sivang> jdong: what kind of multi tasking are you doing?
[03:35] <kmon> I recently bought a turion
[03:35] <zyga> for whooping 30$
[03:35] <zyga> :D
[03:36] <jdong> sivang: parallel, time-intensive jobs
[03:36] <kmon> nice chip
[03:36] <zyga> now I need to wait till a mobo shows up
[03:36] <jdong> sivang: I can feel desktop performance lag from when I'm x264 encoding
[03:36] <jdong> even with -ck + preempt
[03:36] <sivang> should I have aimed for Core Duo ?
[03:36] <sivang> jdong: what's this about?
[03:36] <zyga> geez h264 on laptop?
[03:36] <jdong> sivang: right now, core duos are the best deal out there
[03:36] <sivang> what's x264?
[03:37] <zyga> jdong: h264 or x264?
[03:37] <sivang> -ck = asian language support?
[03:37] <jdong> sivang: h.264 aka MPEG-4 AVC.
[03:37] <zyga> right :)
[03:37] <sivang> ah, divx
[03:37] <sivang> :-)
[03:37] <jdong> sivang: x264 = open source implementation
[03:37] <jdong> in Dapper :)
[03:37] <zyga> we decode SD h264 stream on 100MHz CPU :-)
[03:37] <zyga> note: there is no typo
[03:37] <jdong> and -ck are Con Koliva's performance patchsets to the kernel
[03:38] <jdong> zyga: idn; quicktime HD trailers bring my A64 3000+ to its knees
[03:38] <kmon> jdong: does the ubuntu kernel include Con kolivas patches?
[03:38] <jdong> kmon: no.
[03:38] <zyga> jdong: memory performance, cpu performance probably the former
[03:38] <jdong> kmon: these patches improve responsiveness. How they affect overall performance is somewhat disputed
[03:38] <zyga> HD needs gobs of GB/s
[03:39] <kmon> jdong: thanxs :)
[03:39] <jdong> zyga: and dual channel 533MHz seeems pretty good for that :)
[03:39] <sivang> oh man, how do I install it?
[03:39] <zyga> jdong: frankly I don't want to watch HD on my laptop, I've got enouhg HD at work :)
[03:39] <jdong> sivang: mencoder/mplayer/xine all understand h264 streams. mencoder can encode to it
[03:39] <sivang> ah, so I already have it :)
[03:39] <sivang> with mplaer
[03:39] <jdong> zyga: I know. Just an extreme case. Most DivX quality h264's work great
[03:40] <jdong> sivang: yep :). Gotta love Ubuntu
[03:40] <jdong> I'm really impressed with the h264 codec
[03:40] <jdong> I can comfortably encode at 30-40% lower bitrates than xvid/divx/lavc mpeg4
[03:40] <zyga> jdong: does mplayer implement the entire h264 spec or just the baseline?
[03:40] <jdong> zyga: I am unsure. It uses libavcodec to decode.
[03:41] <zyga> just curious
[03:41] <zyga> me too but job requires pretty good knowledge of that stuff :)
[03:41] <jdong> :)
[03:42] <jdong> but either way, the core duo (and core's in general) are great chips
[03:42] <jdong> the entry level one (1.66GHz) is just simply a bargain
[03:42] <zyga> at least basic understanding for everyone, even if I never touch the h264 decoder myself
[03:42] <zyga> jdong: frankly amd has better dual core cpus
[03:42] <zyga> and core duo is just cheap
[03:42] <jdong> zyga: :-/. It's being threatened right now.
[03:42] <zyga> performance wise dual core sucks as hell
[03:42] <mdke> guys, this is seriously offtopic
[03:42] <jdong> lol
[03:43] <zyga> -> #u-offtopic
[03:43] <mdke> the developers often try and read the scrollback from this channel, try and keep it clean
[03:43] <jdong> I need to get going anyway... got work to do today
[03:43] <jdong> take care, everyone
[03:43] <sivang> jdong: laters
[03:44] <sivang> infinity: I just wonder if those core duo thingy provide real performance boost overall and would feel different then a Sonoma T43p machine..
[03:44] <hunger> sivang: Depends on what you do.
[03:45] <zyga> guys guys
[03:45] <zyga> let's go to #ubuntu-offtopic, mdke is right
[03:46] <sivang> mdke: oops, sorry!
[04:14] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:16] <highvoltage> hi, where can i get ubuntu.ttf again?
[04:17] <bddebian> Hello highvoltage.   I don't have a clue, sorry
[04:17] <highvoltage> hello bddebian. ok, np.
[04:18] <highvoltage> i found ploum!
[04:18] <highvoltage> :)
[04:18] <Treenaks> uhr no, he found you :)
[04:18] <ploum> :-)
[04:18] <highvoltage> hmmm.. a regulare chuck norris
[04:18] <Treenaks> ploum = Chuck? oh no!
[04:18] <ploum> I counted to infinity
[04:18] <ploum> twice
[04:18] <highvoltage> hehe
[04:19] <highvoltage> ploum sleeps with the lights on... because the dark is afraid of him
[04:19] <bddebian> haha
[04:20] <ploum> if only it could be true with bugs...  that would be awesome
[04:21] <jdub> ploum: you sleep with the bugs on?
[04:21] <Treenaks> When ploum approaches, all software bugs disappear: you don't bug ploum.
[04:21] <ploum> jdub: not that much...
[04:22] <ploum> and they are friendly after all
[04:23] <ploum> Treenaks: it seems that my father is the opposite. when he seats in front of a computer, the computer crashes !
[04:24] <ploum> Last time, he started his old laptop : the gnome top panel was at the bottom, under the normal bottom panel
[04:24] <ploum> I don't even know it was possible !
[04:25] <Treenaks> ploum: That's why we make Gnome for our mothers, not our fathers... my father has the same effect on computers
[04:25] <Robot101> you can just drag them around and make as many as you want :P
[04:26] <ploum> Robot101: but doing it just by booting the computer without even touching the mouse is a proof of some psychic power (it was shutdown last time by me, so it wasn't done before)
[04:33] <ploum> I've just helped someone with Gnome 2.8 this thursday.
[04:33] <ploum> Wow !
[04:33] <ploum> Gnome 2.8 is so yesterday !
[04:33] <ploum> I can believe I used it and was happy with it !
[04:34] <azeem> I'm still using it at the uni
[04:35] <giftnudel> oh, we have gnome 1.* at our university
[04:35] <giftnudel> (on solaris)
[04:37] <ploum> giftnudel: that is old, indeed..
[04:37] <ploum> I just started with  Gnome 1.4 on Woody
[04:40] <jdong> guys, mdke is going to get really upset.... :)
[04:41] <Lathiat> ploum: what was the one before that?
[04:41] <Lathiat> (woody)
[04:43] <jdong> :)
[04:54] <bddebian> \sh!!
[04:55] <\sh> hey bddebian
[04:56] <zakame> hello \sh! bddebian! =D
[04:57] <\sh> hoi zakame
[06:02] <wasabi_> So who was working on an arm port? :)
[06:05] <_ion> Beagle was --purge removed quite quickly from my dad's laptop after it ate all the RAM (512 MiB) and swap (800 MiB). :-)
[06:07] <tseng> it would be nice if all the people complaining about high memory usage would get with upstream and debug
[06:07] <tseng> and not make extremely vauge comments about it
[06:08] <_ion> If i personally wanted to use it, i'd start debugging it.
[06:08] <Robot101> tseng: why? if the solution they all arrive at is to remove beagle, then they're obviously not that concerned about whether or not they use it.
[06:08] <tseng> Robot101: I guess.
[06:08] <Mithrandir> Robot101: upstream might have an interest in fixing it, though
[06:09] <Robot101> if they kept using it and kept complaining, it would be good to expect them to help fix it :)
[06:09] <tseng> it happens to be an SoC item for someone to spend the summer profiling and reducing usage, luckily
[06:10] <_ion> tseng: Nice.
[06:12] <tseng> yeah, I hope someone runs with that
[06:13] <tseng> because it seems to be becoming more and more of a corner case, my system only uses 70mb or so between all the beagle threads
[06:14] <tseng> which is "too much" if you have 256 probably, but not that bad for me
[06:16] <tseng> is not locking the screen on System - Logout - Sleep a bug or a feature?
[06:16] <giftnudel> the live cd has a problem when it needs swap and wants to install the system - the default is to format swap ... well if you don't have enough ram, your screwed then
[06:20] <tseng> Mithrandir: known bug, espresso install did put a resume= in my grub config?
[06:20] <Lathiat> did or didnt
[06:20] <tseng> did not
[06:21] <Lathiat> i have an open bug about that
[06:21] <tseng> great.
[06:21] <Lathiat>  https://launchpad.net/bugs/40609
[06:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40609 in initramfs-tools acpi-support "Dell Precision M20: Does not attempt resume from hibernate" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[06:21] <tseng> against grub or installer?
[06:21] <tseng> ok, thanks
[06:21] <Lathiat> its supposed to be in some initramfs config file apaprently
[06:21] <Lathiat> which doesnt seem to get created
[06:22] <tseng> nice to see my alp touchpad really working now
[06:23] <tseng> was that your doing?
[06:23] <giftnudel> will the live cd look for swap partitions if I don't have enough memory?
[06:23] <tritium> Lathiat: /etc/mkinitramfs/conf.d/resume is empty or not present?
[06:25] <Lathiat> not present
[07:12] <Mithrandir> giftnudel: yes
[07:12] <giftnudel> Mithrandir: live cd/swap answer?
[07:12] <Mithrandir> giftnudel: yes
[07:12] <giftnudel> thx
[07:25] <rohan> i finally installed using espresso the 6th time around
[07:26] <rohan> so problem is, that it failed on installing grub. so now i have the complete system, but no grub. how do i "reinstall" it ?
[07:26] <rohan> it didnt create menu.lst nor grub/ directory in /boot
[07:26] <rohan> and it was meant to use /dev/hda2 for /boot but its using a directory /boot on the root partition
[07:27] <rohan> so i have grub from another distro and can go into ubuntu, but how do i install grub "The Debian way" ?
[07:28] <\sh> apt-get install grub
[07:29] <\sh> and then do the grub-install run or whatever...but it should install grub by default
[07:29] <rohan> \sh: that will create the proper grub/ dir in /boot ?
[07:29] <rohan> and how do i 'migrate' my /boot to another dir i.e. /dev/hda2 ?
[07:30] <\sh> only the stages of grub are installed in /boot/grub/ the bootloader itself is being installed in mbr or on the first partition
[07:31] <rohan> ok
[07:31] <rohan> so how do i 'migrate' my /boot to another dir i.e. /dev/hda2 ?
[07:31] <\sh> rohan: you don't
[07:32] <rohan> :|
[07:32] <\sh>  /dev/hda2 is not a dir
[07:32] <rohan> cant i ?
[07:32] <\sh> it's a device
[07:32] <rohan> \sh: yea yea i will make ext2 on /dev/hda2 and all
[07:32] <rohan> but then how do i "tell" it that /dev/hda2 is my boot ? fstab ?
[07:32] <\sh> well, you have to install then a bootloader on /dev/hda1 or in the mbr of your boot harddrive
[07:33] <rohan> ok, bbl
[07:33] <rohan> lets see
[07:34] <\sh> hmmm...looks like that he didn't understand the purpose of a boot loader
[07:48] <rohan> \sh: ping
[07:50] <\sh> rohan: pong
[07:50] <rohan> \sh: now it gives a gpg error after apt-get update :S
[07:50] <\sh> hum?
[07:51] <rohan> and, oh joy, ubuntu-live was not apt-get remove'd
[07:51] <\sh> which repositories do you have in sources.list?
[07:51] <rohan> and "rohan<TAB>ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL"
[07:51] <rohan> how is that line incorrect ?
[07:51] <rohan> \sh: the defualt, i uncommented uni and multi verse
[07:52] <\sh> looks like that your installation went wrong somehow
[07:52] <rohan> after failing 6 times, i am not really surprized to hear that
[07:52] <rohan> and, as i said, the install just died -- no reason, no option to salvage it
[07:53] <rohan> \sh: i reinstall'ed grub, it did not put stages in /boot and neither was menu.lst created
[07:54] <rohan> now how do i re-create grub files
[07:54] <rohan> boohoo :S
[07:54] <\sh> first of all, you installed it via espresso right?
[07:55] <rohan> yes, which failed 5 times, and worked upto copying files on the 6th
[07:56] <\sh> try the normal install cd (dapper) then if you want to have a working system, or file bugs in malone (launchpad) against the espresso package
[07:56] <rohan> but this system is working
[07:57] <rohan> bandwidth is really low in india, i cant download iso's everyday :9
[07:57] <rohan> :(
[07:57] <rohan> what does espresso usually do after installing grub ?
[07:57] <rohan> apt-get remove ubuntu-live ?
[07:58] <\sh> .oO( i have to test the live cd installer tomorrow...oh wow my time schedule just went mad for tomorrow :()
[07:58] <\sh> rohan: to be honest, I didn't have the time to test the live installer ... but promised, I'll test it tomorrow evening...
[07:59] <rohan> \sh: test it on a p3 550mhz i810 256mb ram :)
[08:00] <\sh> rohan: the only machine I can test here is the canonical laptop (toshibe portege r200, 512mb, 60 gb, i915, no cd drive) :)
[08:00] <\sh> and that's the machine I have to test anyways...:)
[08:00] <rohan> wow, wish i had something like _that_
[08:00] <rohan> and ^^ is the only pc i have .. p3 550mhz .. lol a joke ;)
[08:01] <\sh> believe me, everybody will bug you what this machine is, and how small it is...and then you have to say: "But pbuilding packages on this machines nerves ":))
[08:02] <rohan> :o even :)
[08:02] <rohan> wow, i really _must_ reinstall using the install cd
[08:03] <rohan> unfortunaltely
[08:03] <rohan> see more errors
[08:03] <rohan> hang one, installing gpm
[08:03] <G0SUB_> rohan: hello ...
[08:03] <rohan> G0SUB_: oh, hi, we meet again :)
[08:04] <rohan> really, is there any way to salvage this broken install, or do i just reinstall using the text installer ?
[08:04] <G0SUB_> rohan: again? when did we meet earlier? I am sorry I have a bad short term memory :)
[08:04] <rohan> G0SUB_: #ubuntu-in when you lectured me why me must use GNU/Linux and not Linux or linux
[08:04] <rohan> Use of uninitialized value in print at /var/lib/defoma/scripts/gs.defoma line 108.
[08:05] <rohan> what error is _that_ ?
[08:05] <G0SUB_> rohan: heh, and you left after that ?
[08:05] <G0SUB_> rohan: that's just an warning ... you can ignore that
[08:05] <rohan> G0SUB_: no, i dont really have time to be on irc .. exams in a month
[08:05] <rohan> but, i have this strange s:save_cpo icon on my desktop
[08:05] <G0SUB_> hmm, ok
[08:06] <rohan> i cant find it in fstab ... no such mount
[08:06] <rohan> and its 500mb big
[08:06] <rohan> 464.8
[08:06] <rohan> what is this s:save_cpo
[08:07] <rohan> oops, no its just increasing !! its 3gb now
[08:08] <rohan> oh _LOL_ its a legit mount
[08:09] <rohan> but its being named as s:save
[08:09] <rohan> and not /mnt/hda1
[08:09] <rohan> ok, i am off
[08:09] <rohan> if someone has solutions please memo :S
[09:00] <catskul> anyone know what the name of the package is which contains the network "monitor applet" ?
[09:00] <catskul> er... "network monitor" applet
[09:03] <pitti> catskul: gnome-netstatus-applet ?
[09:03] <pitti> hi jane_
[09:04] <\sh> hey pitti...give me a short introduction into asoundconf pls :)
[09:04] <catskul> pitti, thanks. Ill check on that
[09:04] <\sh> good evening jane :)
[09:04] <pitti> hey \sh
[09:04] <pitti> \sh: it's mainly designed as a backend tool
[09:04] <\sh> pitti: yes...and I'm hacking on a kde frontend tool for asoundrc :)
[09:05] <pitti> \sh: the manpage says it all, really, it's pretty shallow; it just adds/removes/checks stuff in ~/.asoundrc.asoudconf
[09:05] <pitti> \sh: oooh, similar to the audio selector in gnome?
[09:05] <\sh> so...if I want to change the default card (card 0) to card 1
[09:05] <\sh> I do asoundconf set default.pcm.card 1 or with the name?
[09:05] <pitti> \sh: yep, setting the default sound card is the only thing we use it for now
[09:05] <pitti> \sh: we used the number up to breezy, but using the name is better
[09:06] <pitti> \sh: since it makes us independent of sound card ordering
[09:06] <pitti> \sh: however, the current gnome tool has a bug I still need to fix
[09:06] <\sh> pitti: ok...then I have a problem :)
[09:06] <crimsun> pitti: btw, gnome-sound-properties (source: gnome-control-center) needs to set defaults.ctl.card, too
[09:06] <pitti> \sh: you should set default.ctl.card to the same value as pcm
[09:06] <pitti> crimsun: ^ :)
[09:06] <\sh> the usb headset I'm using is named always "default" but changes the card number :)
[09:06] <pitti> crimsun: yep, it's on my list of stuff to fix, for far too long, I admit
[09:07] <pitti> \sh: really? aplay -l shows 'default' as the name? weird
[09:07] <\sh> pitti: yes..
[09:07] <\sh> shermann@toshiba-laptop:~/Projekte/kasound$ cat /proc/asound/cards
[09:07] <\sh> 0 [ICH6           ] : ICH4 - Intel ICH6
[09:07] <\sh>                      Intel ICH6 with AD1981B at 0x32080400, irq 169
[09:07] <\sh> 1 [default        ] : USB-Audio - C-Media USB Headphone Set
[09:07] <\sh>                      C-Media USB Headphone Set   at usb-0000:00:1d.3-2, full speed
[09:08] <pitti> *shaking head*
[09:08] <crimsun> pitti: I'm working through alsa-utils, will have a tiny debian/init addition to apply for Via82xx users so they'll have audible sound out-of-the-box. I'll coordinate with Thomas on alsaconf if you haven't already taken it, too.
[09:08] <\sh> and depending on the mood of modules autoload sometimes default is 0 and sometimes 1
[09:09] <\sh> pitti: if you are curious....saturn 20 eur usb headset of cmedia...the cheapest you can get :)
[09:10] <pitti> \sh: I bought a logitech usb headset a while ago, when I wrote this selector :)
[09:10] <\sh> but it works even with skype on dapper :)
[09:10] <\sh> pitti: hehe...yeah it's one of the expensive ones :)
[09:59] <Chipzz> could I ask a question about python-apt here?
[10:07] <ForzaPalermo> hey can somoene help me, i am having problems with dapper thah ti just installed
[10:08] <highvoltage> ForzaPalermo: best to ask in #ubuntu
[10:08] <ForzaPalermo> i did no one is helping me :(
[10:09] <highvoltage> sometimes you just need to be a little patient :)
[10:09] <mdke> ForzaPalermo, forums/mailing lists are good too
[10:10] <Chipzz> where could I ask a python-apt question? (sorry for repeating myself :P)
[10:39] <Riddell> \sh: cool :)  are you going to make it a guidance module?
[10:40] <\sh> Riddell: let me hack one version first, then we can test it...problem is that kde apps are not reloading the settings from asound.conf
[10:42] <Riddell> \sh: killall amarok should sort that out :)
[10:43] <\sh> Riddell: no :(
[10:43] <\sh> Riddell: the xine engine is the problem:)
[10:43] <Riddell> it needs X killed?
[10:43] <\sh> total session restart
[10:44] <\sh> well...I have more problems with usb headsets :)
[10:46] <\sh> e.g. shortcutting the usb bus :) kernel doesn't unload the usb modules...and reinit of modules-init-tools doesn't help...shortcut is done via "laying in bed, and somehow the knee is beding the usb plug" ;)
[10:46] <\sh> beding
[10:46] <\sh> bending i mean..
[10:50] <Riddell> "click here to reboot", very windows 95
[10:50] <_ion> riddell: Not until the BSOD.
[10:52] <robertj> btw, does anyone else think that there shouldn't be an update & reboot icon at the same time for update manager?
[11:05] <\sh> good night gentlemen
[11:50] <bddebian> Heya folks


[00:05] <greg-g> cmaloney: in your blog you're referring to https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/web-timer/ggnjbdfgigejghknieofeahaknkjafim ?
[00:08]  * greg-g assumes so
[00:09]  * greg-g can't find a surrogate for Fx
[02:40] <cmaloney> greg-g: yeah, i think that's the one
[03:59] <_stink_> jayis: NO
[04:02] <jayis> AH
[14:18] <mrgoodcat> morning all
[14:18] <brousch> morning one
[14:18] <rick_h__> party
[14:19] <rick_h__> tgif
[14:20] <mrgoodcat> friday++
[14:21] <brousch> Civic Hackathon for Code Across America tonight
[14:21] <brousch> and tomorrow
[14:39] <jrwren> sounds too much like hands across america and I don't think webster is going to be there.
[14:41] <brousch> This wind is nuts today
[14:59] <brousch> 32F feels like 17F 45mph winds
[15:05] <JonEdney> Yeah, that wind is brutal, but I will take it after the last 2 months.
[15:05] <JonEdney> Oh, and good morning.
[15:08] <brousch> I'd prefer 20F and calm
[15:08] <rick_h__> heh, polar vortex coming, how about -20?
[15:08] <rick_h__> that's close right?
[15:11] <brousch> That's too cold
[15:12] <brousch> 20F feels nice now. I was on the roof 2 days ago in a tshirt shoveling and breaking ice dams
[15:44] <jrwren> RED ALERT!  Old World Python Class Sighted!
[15:44] <rick_h__> ruh roh...run for the hills!
[15:48] <jrwren> i lolled for a good 10 seconds.
[15:59] <cmaloney> good morning
[16:01] <mrgoodcat> I just love that they call it a polar vortex.  Want an old object? you need to do class MyUser(oldobject)
[16:16] <rick_h__> :)
[16:34] <jrwren> rick_h__: ha! that would be an interesting python 2.8 hack ;p
[16:35] <cmaloney> rick_h__: I like the way you think. :)
[17:09] <jrwren> poll: open() or file() in python and why.
[17:11] <rick_h__> with open() as fh:
[17:11] <rick_h__> because that's just what I've known/used.
[17:11] <jrwren> i'm pretty sure the file class has enter/exit, but I like your because the best.
[17:12] <rick_h__> yea, i mean if you go to file stuff in the docs it's all open
[17:12] <rick_h__> http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html
[17:12] <rick_h__> I'm trying to find file() to compare api/args and such
[17:13] <rick_h__> http://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html?highlight=file#file
[17:14] <rick_h__> When opening a file, it’s preferable to use open() instead of invoking this constructor directly. file is more suited to type testing (for example, writing isinstance(f, file)).
[17:14] <rick_h__> I wouldn't expect a class constructor to be a context manager as well, but maybe it is.
[17:15] <rick_h__> yea, don't see it in the api docs for File objects
[17:15] <rick_h__> so context mgr ftw
[17:18] <jrwren> rick_h__: YES! thankyou.
[17:20] <rick_h__> thanks for bringing it up. Never really thought about it
[18:29] <mrgoodcat> for someone with experience in multiple programming languages what would you suggest as a good resource to learn idiomatic python? I'm not so much worried about the syntax because that shouldn't be difficult, but more about the "python way" of solving any particular problem.
[18:30] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Sit behind rick_h__ and watch him work
[18:30] <mrgoodcat> haha
[18:30] <mrgoodcat> failing that, are there any books you might suggest?
[18:30] <mrgoodcat> i have a few, but don't know which to start with
[18:31] <rick_h__> there's a few 'python way' books. The best thing is to look at code from devs you respect, check out pyohio this summer, etc
[18:31] <rick_h__> ask someone to review the code
[18:32] <brousch> Follow PEP8
[18:32] <rick_h__> yea, pep8 and pylint your stuff
[18:33] <mrgoodcat> does pylint check for errors or style?
[18:33] <rick_h__> well, sanity check vs style.
[18:34] <rick_h__> usused variables, imports, proper use of exceptions, etc
[18:34] <mrgoodcat> got it
[18:34] <rick_h__> If I can open it without my editor yelling at me you're on the right track :)
[18:35] <mrgoodcat> i was going to do clojure but i recently did haskell and i've been told by too many people that i have to try python
[18:35] <rick_h__> clojure is worth looking at as well
[18:35] <rick_h__> as someone that does python
[18:37] <mrgoodcat> which would you suggest first? assuming i'll do both eventually (which i likely will)
[18:38] <rick_h__> if you do ruby already I think clojue will be more enlightning
[18:38] <rick_h__> python is ruby done right, so if you're looking at doing more of what you do but with cleaner tools then go python :)
[18:38] <mrgoodcat> enlightening in what way? because of the functional aspect of it?
[18:38] <rick_h__> yea, it's different. It'll open your mind some more
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> i've done functional before
[18:39] <rick_h__> there are tools you learn because you want a better tool and tools you learn that expand how you think
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> I happen to really like haskell
[18:39] <rick_h__> clojure, for me at least is more about expanding how I think.
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> does clojure offer any real advantage over haskell?
[18:39] <rick_h__> ask waf he tinkers with them more
[18:40] <rick_h__> I think clojure is more real-world usable than haskell
[18:41] <jrwren> and pyflakes.
[18:41] <jrwren> I've found just having a pyflakes vim plugin helps me be pythonic a bunch.
[18:42] <rick_h__> jrwren: yea, I used flake8 which is that + pep8
[18:42] <jrwren> yes, that.
[18:42] <jrwren> I think I used that too
[18:42] <jrwren> I know I have both.
[18:42] <rick_h__> there's a new one that's more maintained
[18:42] <rick_h__> right
[18:43] <jrwren> pep-0463 looks crazy
[18:45] <brousch> This looks interesting http://stephensugden.com/crash_into_python/
[18:45] <jrwren> 3.5 is getting 0463
[18:45] <rick_h__> jrwren: yea, that is. One side of my brain goes "oooh cool that reads nice"
[18:45] <jrwren> x=[]
[18:45] <rick_h__> and the other side goes "wtf"
[18:46] <jrwren> x[0] except IndexError: None
[18:46] <rick_h__> expr or else default if Exception
[18:46] <rick_h__> ?
[18:46] <jrwren> it will be nice for some things which are too verbose right now
[18:46] <rick_h__> yea
[18:46] <rick_h__> some of those are hard to read at intent though
[18:47]  * rick_h__ will have to look for some personal use cases of it
[18:48] <jrwren> interesting that bare except is not allowed.
[18:49] <jrwren> you have to except BaseException:
[18:49] <jrwren> hehe
[18:49] <jrwren> ON ERROR RESUME NEXT
[18:49] <jrwren> i'm going to write a script which adds " except BaseException: pass" to every statement in my python file
[18:50] <mrgoodcat> functional programming just seems fundamentally broken to me when there needs to be user interaction. maybe i just don't understand it well enough
[18:51] <mrgoodcat> it seems to me that programs that depend on user interaction depend on mutable state
[18:52] <mrgoodcat> it seems sometimes too theoretical. difficult to apply to real world problems
[18:52] <mrgoodcat> great for things like project euler though
[18:52] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: functional and immutability are orthoginal.
[18:52] <jrwren> don't let the uneducated functionistas tell you otherwise.
[18:52] <rick_h__> hey, not saying otherwise
[18:53] <jrwren> functional might make it easier to embrace immutability - easier being subjective and up to you.
[18:53] <rick_h__> functional can be a lot about design/layout/communication contracts
[18:53] <jrwren> that said, I find nothing challenging about user interaction and functional constructs.
[18:53] <mrgoodcat> by orthogonal you mean...?
[18:53] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: exactly perpendicular
[18:54] <jrwren> i mean one does not have to do with the other. they are not parallels
[18:54] <rick_h__> you can implement your code in terms of functional design just fine without getting into immutibility
[18:54] <jrwren> rick_h__: exactly
[18:55] <rick_h__> we're working to make our large JS app more functional in structure and api design, but not dealing or worrying about immutible datatypes/etc.
[18:58] <jrwren> server side JS app?
[18:58] <jrwren> or browser side?
[18:59] <rick_h__> browser, juju gui
[18:59] <jrwren> browser side you are typically more concerned with not shadowing the DOM too much
[20:32] <mrgoodcat> i'd just like to reiterate how much I hate php
[20:32] <mrgoodcat> and specifically, wordpress plugins
[20:51] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'd also check out the "Writing Idiomatic Python" book
[20:51] <cmaloney> It's a little spartan but should give you some good pointers on what is idiomatic with Python
[22:42] <greg-g> curious what it looks like to be the one to press the "push all the code" at Wikimedia? https://asciinema.org/a/7798
[22:43] <rick_h__> macbook pro 01?
[22:45] <greg-g> not me


[17:58] <gnarface> hey guys i am an idiot and i locked myself out of ubuntu touch
[17:58] <gnarface> just wondering if anyone here knows a easy way to reset the password or just do a factory reset on it
[17:59] <gnarface> information online is not matching, maybe because it's a pinephone, but nobody over in #pinephone knows anything
[18:00] <gnarface> (their best suggestion is to reinstall from scratch which i will resort to but i thought someone who actually knows the OS layout should be able to tell me how to just mount it over USB and factory reset manually by formatting one of these partitions or something)
[18:00] <gnarface> never tried ubuntu touch, just thought i'd give it a fair chance
[18:54] <gnarface> oh
[18:54] <gnarface> hah
[18:55] <gnarface> sorry, nevermind; i just found this line item under "not working:"  Misc: Reset to factory defaults
[19:53] <ikmaak> we were having a discussion about UBPorts on the pine #pinephone channel. it could use some input form the team. could someone please join in?
[20:02] <ikmaak> please?


[00:39] <xivulon> cjwatson, I am seeing a few reports about problems creating swap file
[00:41] <xivulon> might be some regression in 222546, I tried to contact lamont, could you maybe remind him to have a quick look?
[08:32] <Mirv> did you plan to get new debian-installer to Rosetta still with the "removes / installs" string translatable still?
[08:32] <Mirv> (not seeing anything in the import queue)
[11:45] <cjwatson> Mirv: I'm on holiday, but I'll see what I can do; I think it's ... optimistic to hope for new translations of that to be imported for jaunty mind you
[11:46]  * cjwatson runs 'installer-po-update jaunty'
[11:48] <lool> Hmm I see a warning during install that isn't translated, should I be worried?
[11:48] <lool> It's the "The installer currently runs from partition foobar" warning above the partitioning screen in ubiquity
[11:48] <cjwatson> lool: French?
[11:48] <lool> Yes
[11:49] <cjwatson> lool: exact string?
[11:49] <cjwatson> is it "Your installation medium is on ..."?
[11:49] <lool> Something like that
[11:49] <lool> I need to reproduce to tell you, will take me some time to reach that screen
[11:50] <cjwatson> lool: it just wasn't translated into French when I last did an import
[11:50] <cjwatson> it's in the .po file with an empty msgstr
[11:50] <lool> Oh ok
[11:50] <lool> Well so is life then
[11:50] <lool> I can go and translate it I guess
[11:51] <cjwatson> it was a late string addition
[11:52] <lool> cjwatson: FYI I filed a bug on broken window icon in ubiquity
[11:52] <lool> I couldn't blame it on a recent ubiquity change though
[11:52] <lool> But I think we want to fix this for release
[11:53] <lool> cjwatson: Yes, it was the Your installation medium string
[11:55] <lool> Anyway, enjoy your deserved long week end  :)
[11:57] <cjwatson> broken window icon> *blink* didn't think we'd changed anything there, indeed ...
[11:58] <cjwatson> but yeah, unlikely to look at it today :)
[12:27] <davmor2> cjwatson: password weak buttons make a lot more sense now :)
[12:27] <cjwatson> good, thanks
[12:28] <cjwatson> Mirv: should be in the import queue or imported now
[13:01] <cjwatson> lool: debian-installer failed to build on armel
[13:03] <lool> Crap
[13:04] <lool> cjwatson: Shall we revert that change immediately or do I have time to look into it?
[13:04] <cjwatson> I think you have time to look into it
[13:10] <cjwatson> lool: I think the problem may be that KERNELNAME is not set correctly for imx51
[13:11] <cjwatson> oh, and that was what you changed
[13:11] <lool> Yes
[13:11] <cjwatson> KERNELNAME must match what's in the kernel .deb
[13:12] <cjwatson> so you can't unilaterally change this in d-i - if you want to change the filename, that has to be done in the kernel
[13:12] <lool> cjwatson: I copied KERNELNAME = vmlinuz from lpia, and thought it was ok
[13:12] <cjwatson> (which will mean it'll conflict with other kernels doing the same thing, etc.)
[13:12] <lool> I think it's KERNELVERSION being incorrect
[13:12] <lool> Oh I see
[13:13] <cjwatson> hm, that's odd, lpia has a versioned vmlinuz in its .deb too
[13:13] <cjwatson> have you read the documentation?
[13:13] <cjwatson> KERNELVERSION
[13:13] <cjwatson>   The version of the kernel .udeb package, like "2.4.26-r4k-ip22"
[13:13] <lool> I'm reading it
[13:13] <cjwatson> KERNELNAME
[13:13] <cjwatson>   The full name of the kernel image. If you build an EXTRA target (e.g.
[13:13] <cjwatson>   for a driver floppy), this variable has to be empty.
[13:14] <lool> I'd rather stick to what lpia and i386 do, even if that seems to contradict the recommendations of the docs
[13:14] <cjwatson> you might be right that KERNELVERSION is wrong
[13:14] <cjwatson> ... except it isn't
[13:14] <cjwatson> armel/imx51.cfg sets it correctly
[13:15] <lool> armel has SUBARCH, but not lpia
[13:15] <cjwatson> you can't easily compare across architectures unfortunately
[13:15] <cjwatson> the different variables interact in subtle ways
[13:16] <cjwatson> oh, I have an idea
[13:17] <lool> Did you find where lpia was being renamed?  I didn't so far
[13:17] <cjwatson> it isn't being renamed, in d-i
[13:17] <cjwatson> you need to look at the kernel-image udeb, not at the linux-image deb
[13:17] <lool> ahhhh
[13:17] <cjwatson> lp_archive@cocoplum:/tmp/cjwatson$ dpkg -c /home/lp_archive/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/kernel-image-2.6.28-11-lpia-di_2.6.28-11.41_lpia.udeb | grep /boot/
[13:17] <cjwatson> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2009-04-08 06:20 ./boot/
[13:17] <cjwatson> -rw-r--r-- root/root   2810416 2009-04-08 06:20 ./boot/vmlinuz
[13:17] <cjwatson> -rw-r--r-- root/root   1225020 2009-04-08 06:20 ./boot/System.map
[13:17] <cjwatson> lp_archive@cocoplum:/tmp/cjwatson$ dpkg -c /home/lp_archive/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/kernel-image-2.6.28-11-imx51-di_2.6.28-11.41_armel.udeb | grep /boot/
[13:17] <lool> But we're past kernel freeze
[13:17] <cjwatson> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2009-04-08 12:13 ./boot/
[13:17] <cjwatson> -rw-r--r-- root/root   1005417 2009-04-08 12:13 ./boot/System.map-2.6.28-11-imx51
[13:17] <cjwatson> -rw-r--r-- root/root   1949080 2009-04-08 12:13 ./boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-11-imx51
[13:17] <cjwatson> I *think* there's going to be one last upload
[13:18] <lool> It's my impression as well, but that's quite a bet :)
[13:18] <cjwatson> the place where this is controlled is in debian/d-i/kernel-versions.in
[13:18] <lool> I'll find out in the release meeting
[13:18] <cjwatson> the last field
[13:20] <cjwatson> see kernel-wedge/REAMDE
[13:20] <cjwatson> README
[13:20] <cjwatson> in the meantime, I'll revert that d-i change so that it can build
[13:22] <CIA-28> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1085 ubuntu/ (build/config/arm.cfg build/config/armel.cfg debian/changelog):
[13:22] <CIA-28> debian-installer: Revert arm KERNELVERSION change for now; this needs to be done in sync
[13:22] <CIA-28> debian-installer: with a change in debian/d-i/kernel-versions.in in the kernel.
[13:23] <lool> So -.+ has a special meaning in this file, but "-" alone doesn't mean anything
[13:23] <lool> However an empty value like on lpia doesn't seem to be a good idea
[13:23] <CIA-28> debian-installer: cjwatson * r1086 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20081029ubuntu33
[13:23] <cjwatson> what would be wrong with "-"?
[13:24] <cjwatson> that makes it impossible to build multi-subarchitecture images - but we never try to do that anyway
[13:24] <cjwatson> indeed, "-" would be my recommendation
[13:24] <cjwatson> unless you're seeing something I'm missing
[13:24] <lool> I didn't say there's anything wrong with -, it's what we should use (or n or anything really)
[13:24] <lool> Just not y or -something
[13:25] <lool> I'm saying the lpia line doesn't look good
[13:25] <cjwatson> oh, I see what you mean, lpia actually leaves out the field
[13:25] <lool> Because it doesn't even have the -
[13:25] <lool> Yes
[13:25] <cjwatson> as it happens, that's harmless
[13:25] <lool> Hmm I wonder why tabs work
[13:26] <cjwatson> the reason "-" is there is that there's space for a build-dependency field after that, which is used when udebs are being built outside the kernel packaging
[13:26] <lool> I think it would cause a perl warning in kernel-wedge if it were to use these
[13:26] <cjwatson> why so?
[13:26] <lool> (Hmm it does, perhaps in strict mode then :)
[13:27] <lool> cjwatson: Because $suffix would be undef and it's used in tests
[13:27] <lool> Ah the split with 6 probably avoids that; damn I'm at bad perl
[13:28] <lool> Anyway, will recommend moving from y to -
[13:28] <lool> cjwatson: Only imx51?
[13:28] <cjwatson> no, split(,,6) doesn't avoid that. In fact it probably will generate a warning, but will continue successfully anyway
[13:29] <cjwatson> we should do it consistently for all subarchitectures, for minimum confusion
[13:29] <lool> Ok
[13:29] <cjwatson> well, the only concern is whether booting will still work
[13:29] <cjwatson> if you want to minimise retesting time, then just imx51
[13:29] <lool> We need to test all anyway
[13:30] <cjwatson> ok
[13:30] <lool> (Why wouldn't booting work?)
[13:30] <cjwatson> bootloader configuration would need to point to the right kernel ...
[13:30] <cjwatson> anyway, off to do housework
[13:30] <lool> Indeed
[13:31] <lool> cjwatson: What about -imx51?
[13:31] <lool> Sorry, that was stupid
[13:36] <lool> Actually it wasn't
[13:37] <lool> cjwatson: Using -imx51, -ixp4xx etc. would allow us to do multi-flavours images in the future if we ever needed to (which was actually an idea we had for a single armel livefs)
[13:37] <lool> So there's the same risk of regressions, but we only lose the possibility of having different kernel versions for the same arch
[13:38] <lool> or subarch
[13:42] <persia> lool, The trick is that one needs to mangle the image to make the multi-flavour image bootable on the target flavour.
[13:43] <persia> Probably saves space over pushing images for each flavour to cdimage, but still.
[13:43] <lool> persia: It's already useful if we can do a single buildlive and host a single livefs for all flavours
[13:44] <persia> /lib/modules/* aside, yes.
[13:44] <persia> nevermind: seems we already have cooperative kernels.
[13:47] <lool> I had the /vmlinuz link in mind personally
[13:47] <lool> Bug #359049
[13:49] <persia> Um, images for *every* arch are built on cdimage.ubuntu.com.  MInd you, the live images for some arches fail so miserably that they are commented out (I think).
[13:50] <persia> But anyway, I think vmlinuz-2.6.28-11-imx51 maps nicely to vmlinuz-2.6.28-11-generic, and that it's just the target of the symlink that needs changing.
[13:50] <persia> Although your option D sounds interesting.
[13:52] <persia> It might be interesting to check the ports kernel udebs, and see what happens there as well.
[13:52] <persia> I'd think powerpc would be the most interesting, as we do two flavours of powerpc images.
[13:53] <lool> persia: There's no vmlinuz-2.6.28-11-generic currently
[13:54] <lool> PPC doesn't change anything, because the two flavours are in two images
[13:54] <lool> It's only of interest when we want to build a single image with a single livefs, but booting two kernels
[13:54] <persia> Hrm.
[13:54] <lool> ps3 has a different livefs
[13:55]  * persia blesses d-i for supporting emacs keybindings
[13:55] <lool> Full images for every arch are built on cdimage, but d-i images are built by debian-installer
[14:09] <persia> lool, I see the issue now.  I agree that it's a bug.  I'm not sure which of option B or option D is correct, although I still prefer option D.
[14:09] <persia> s/B/C/
[14:11] <lool> I fear that changing linux + d-i + cdimage is too much before release
[14:13] <persia> I share your fear.  The risk of having d-i not work during this time of greatest testing is too high.
[14:39] <cjwatson> lool: up to you
[14:39] <cjwatson> I'm about to go out to church so don't really have time to think about it now
[14:40] <cjwatson> "-imx51" as the suffix sounds pretty reasonable to me
[14:40] <cjwatson> livefses are not directly relevant here since we're talking about the udebs
[14:50] <lool> I think I'm going to recommend only renaming imx51 to -imx51 or not doing anything this cycle
[14:51] <lool> Based on the fact that probably all flavours except imx51 and perhaps versatile will be dropped next cycle
[16:06] <lool> cjwatson: So we don't touch anything and we keep the names with the version for jaunty
[16:08] <xivulon> cjwatson I will be away next week, I am not aware of any annoying bug left (there are a couple of ui glitches only), feel free to send me an email if anything turns up
[16:08] <xivulon> r120 is the one that should be used
[17:16] <cjwatson> lool: ok
[17:26] <davmor2> cjwatson: wubi-r120.exe works very well infact :)
[18:57] <shtylman> cjwatson: while fixing the bug, I think I have found another (not cause by me). .. I run ubiquity (kde or gtk one...doesn't matter) and even though I select "No" to unmount my current disk, that disk still shows up as both the resize choice and the use entire disk choice...I am thinking that is not the desired behavior..??
[19:13] <shtylman> cjwatson: lp:~shtylman/ubiquity/autopartition <-- fix for the partition bug, I want to do some more cleanup to make the kde side match the gtk side a bit more, but I went ahead and pushed that branch for the bugfix
[19:23] <davmor2> shtylman: did you make a change to the colour of the default kubuntu partition?
[19:23] <shtylman> davmor2: not exactly sure what you mean...but no...not that I am aware of... (change from what version?)
[19:23] <davmor2> shtylman: the grey that is currently displayed makes it look like an empty drive.
[19:25] <shtylman> Daviey: I see...what would you recommend? I can change it very easily...
[19:26] <shtylman> davmor2: ^ my bad
[19:26] <davmor2> shtylman: ubuntu got changed to orange so the obvious would be blue
[19:27] <shtylman> davmor2: ok...you don't happen to know the rgb? for that blue do you :)
[19:29] <davmor2> shtylman: rgb or html code?
[19:29] <shtylman> davmor2: either or...they are the same
[19:29] <davmor2> try 1125e7 see what you think
[19:30] <davmor2> shtylman: it might be a bit dark
[19:35] <shtylman> davmor2: seems a bit off...I will ask in the kubuntu-devel channel for the official color...I am sure someone knows...
[19:36] <davmor2> shtylman: probably a better move :)
[20:42] <kwwii> for those interested, here is the latest design of the time zone map http://sinecera.de/time_zones.png  ...not signed off yet though
[21:06] <shtylman> kwwii: nice
[21:13] <charlie-tca> I like that, kwwii
[21:19] <kwwii> thnx, hopefully that will be accepted and included in jaunty :-)
[21:26] <cjwatson> shtylman: mm, it's sort of questionable because if the mounted filesystem is something other than the installation medium (which it must be, I think, otherwise you wouldn't see this behaviour) then the user might well choose to unmount it
[21:26] <cjwatson> shtylman: I don't think I'll risk changing this for jaunty, but do file a bug on partman-base with more details if it bothers you
[21:28] <shtylman> cjwatson: will do...my only concern was that even though I said no to unmount, it seems like the installer will install onto my main disk. This was not how it behaved before and would never use the main disk that currently has root on it
[21:29] <cjwatson> well, it doesn't do anything unless you tell it that it can
[21:30] <cjwatson> this was a response to a number of other bugs and the balance is rather delicate, which is why I don't just want to go ahead and fix it
[21:30] <cjwatson> happy to review it for karmic
[21:30] <shtylman> cjwatson: I understand...so what will happen if I proceeed with the install even though I didn't unmount? will it install over or error out?
[21:31] <cjwatson> it'll change the partition table and then error (unfortunately)
[21:31] <cjwatson> you should use manual partitioning if you don't like the available automatic choices
[21:32] <cjwatson> shtylman: the resize choice is known to only offer one disk, but surely the "use entire disk" choice should have a drop-down or radio button or something that lets you pick a disk
[21:33] <cjwatson> thanks for the branch; I'll merge that now
[21:33] <CIA-4> ubiquity: cjwatson * r3210 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/frontend/kde_ui.py): merge from lp:~shtylman/ubiquity/autopartition
[21:34] <shtylman> cjwatson: right...ok, cool, I guess it will be something to think about for karmic
[21:34] <cjwatson> shtylman: assuming that you have more than one disk in your test setup, does the "use entire disk" option let you select a disk in Kubuntu?
[21:35] <shtylman> cjwatson: yes
[21:35] <cjwatson> ok, phew
[21:35] <cjwatson> that's something, at least
[21:35] <shtylman> cjwatson: currently it uses radio buttons like we did before, but I think I might change it to drop down like in the gtk one, thoughts?
[21:35] <shtylman> cjwatson: yea...I make sure to test in virtual machines with many disks to try and catch weird outlying behaviors
[21:36] <cjwatson> the change to drop-down was to work better with smaller screen sizes
[21:36] <shtylman> as I figured
[21:36] <cjwatson> so up to you but generally consistency between the frontends seems like a good idea, unless local HIGs say otherwise
[21:36] <cjwatson> IMO
[21:36] <cjwatson> I wouldn't change it for jaunty though
[21:37] <shtylman> thats why I asked...probly a bit late in the game for such a change
[21:37] <cjwatson> kwwii: so is this purely colour changes?
[21:38] <cjwatson> kwwii: any chance I could have a branch with updates to the images in pixmaps/timezone/ in lp:~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk ?
[21:38] <cjwatson> I've not touched this before and Evan is away ...
[21:39] <kwwii> cjwatson: yes, these are color changes and some slight tweaks to the local time overlay (the placement of the dot in respect to the box and the exact color of the box as well as, if it is not hard to do a slight shadow behind the box
[21:39] <kwwii> cjwatson: sorry to bug you on a holiday but this was important to me
[21:40] <kwwii> this version is my design so I want to wait until mark signs off on it. I sent him an email earlier this evening
[21:40] <cjwatson> kwwii: I haven't touched this code *at all* and really have no clue how to do so - I'm happy to merge a branch but can't realistically do it myself
[21:40] <kwwii> I think I will go ahead and make the 30 or so pics in case he does
[21:40] <cjwatson> (plus this is the main religious holiday of the year, I'm definitely not doing any serious work even if it is a Mark request)
[21:41] <kwwii> well, I made the last pics and I assume that just updating them would be enough...I can look at the stuff in bzr and figure that out pretty easy
[21:41] <kwwii> cjwatson: right, that has been quite hard for me to explain to my wife as well
[21:41] <cjwatson> just updating the pictures should be fine for the colours; the box stuff requires code
[21:42] <kwwii> I might look into the cairo code to see how he is offsetting the dot...it is probably not rocket science and I've seen this stuff before...maybe I can be of help in that respect as well
[21:42] <cjwatson> it's in either ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py or ubiquity/segmented_bar.py, probably spread across both
[21:43] <kwwii> or offsetting the box, as the case may be
[21:43] <cjwatson> oh, or else ubiquity/timezone_map.py
[21:43] <cjwatson> right, look for "def do_expose_event" in the latter
[21:44] <cjwatson> and "def rounded_rectangle" in ubiquity/segmented_bar.py, would be my guess
[21:44] <kwwii> excellent, thanks for the help
[21:44] <kwwii> is there some easy way to build this and test it?
[21:45] <cjwatson> TBH the easiest way by far is to boot a live CD and make the changes on the fly (in /usr/lib/ubiquity/) before starting the installer
[21:45] <kwwii> I can do a lot of stuff, but it has been a while since I built a whole distribution :p
[21:45] <cjwatson> since it's all Python that's a lot easier than building yourself a custom live CD
[21:46] <cjwatson> I think Evan actually makes most of his code changes that way and then copies them out, which does occasionally mean he loses stuff when his live CD crashes ;-)
[21:46] <kwwii> so if I boot into it and make the necessary changes before starting the install process it will apply without any extra effort?
[21:46] <kwwii> lol, I can imagine
[21:46] <superm1> that's the same way i make changes too, but i've learned to scp it out regularly when possible
[21:47] <kwwii> in this case, it is the perfect way to test these changes without bogging down in extra work
[21:54] <cjwatson> I make the changes outside and then copy them in, largely
[21:54] <cjwatson> kwwii: without any extra effort> right
[21:55] <cjwatson> kwwii: if you need to test how it looks in "Install Ubuntu" mode as well, running 'ubiquity --only' from the command line is a not entirely terrible approximation
[21:55] <kwwii> cjwatson: excellent, thanks for the info and sorry again for interupting good friday...it would be a really good friday if mark replied and said he liked it :p
[21:55] <cjwatson> should at least deal with fullscreening it, anyway
[21:56] <cjwatson> kwwii: but that would be convenient ;-)
[21:56] <cjwatson> it's not your fault, I know
[21:57] <cjwatson> kwwii: fortunately (from your POV) there are a couple of other changes we need to make to ubiquity anyway before release, so there is an opportunity for piggybacking
[21:57] <kwwii> great. I will work on making the pixmaps tonight and then on the other bits tomorrow
[21:57] <kwwii> cjwatson: that is the best news all day :)
[21:58] <shtylman> I have found that mounting my non-virtual drive in ssh in the live environment and the making symlinks works great to prevent data loss :)
[21:59] <kwwii> I assumed I could make a backup, then change things, see if it worked, do a diff if it does, copy that to a USB stick, apply it to my bzr branch
[22:00] <kwwii> erm, well, pixmaps don't diff well
[22:00] <kwwii> but you get the point
[22:00] <kwwii> are the pixmaps UU encoded or such?
[22:01] <kwwii> guess not
[22:03] <cjwatson> no, just plain png files
[22:03] <cjwatson> I assumed you'd want to change the pixmaps outside the live environment anyway, to save you having to install your favourite image editor inside the live CD
[22:03] <cjwatson> it'd probably be a lot faster
[22:06] <kwwii> cjwatson: right, that was a stupid question and I would have figured it out myself anyway...thanks for the all the info and help. I will be in touch :-)
[22:24] <shtylman> cjwatson: you going to UDS?
[22:25] <cjwatson> yes
[22:25] <shtylman> cool