[00:00] <_Techie_> GFX card
[00:00] <_Techie_> depends on the motherboard
[00:02] <_Techie_> was thinking abotu this
[00:02] <_Techie_> http://www.asrock.com/MB/overview.asp?Model=4CoreDual-VSTA
[00:05] <knome> i know quite a little about hardware, tbh
[00:22] <retour_eu> _Techie_: be sure your MB doesnt use electrolitic capacitors from China
[00:30] <_Techie_> retour_eu, why?
[00:31] <_Techie_> retour_eu, most components come from china
[00:38] <retour_eu> hmmm I could type it here but it would be spamming this channel. In short China stolen receipe for eco friendly water based electrolitic caps from Japan but it was not complete one. Water elecrrolizes after voltage is applied and they leak, etch/short traces or explode spraying acid all around. Google "wiki capacitor plaque" etc
[00:39] <_Techie_> you could have just said they were semi water based and the water elecrrolizes, i dis pass science in school and studied electronics
[00:41] <retour_eu> gee u r touchy. I never questioned you - only the mb since I had bad experience with older Asrock and other products affected by this like routers etc
[00:45] <retour_eu> anyway thank you Cody and Techie for help! Everything works now! Great channel and great support! But I have to educate myself more in all the new things like this xrandr etc
[02:50] <goppp> hi how come I don't see anything with wubi installed in c::\ubuntu\disks\boot\grub
[02:50] <goppp> folder
[02:57] <_Techie_> because theres nothing in there i think
[02:57] <oorah> the new theme rocks compared to the previous ones
[02:57] <oorah> whats up with the wallpaper though? not very pretty
[03:00] <oorah> ?
[03:01] <oorah> anyone else staring at their monitor?
[03:03] <cody-somerville> err... sorta, yea
[03:03] <cody-somerville> lol
[03:23] <_Techie_> that was ummm, weird
[03:49]  * rr72_ sets off the WEIRD ALARM! WWWWWWWWWooooooooooooo EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[05:09] <magic_ninja> hmm
[05:09] <magic_ninja> hmm
[05:09] <magic_ninja> so i have an interesting project underway
[05:10] <magic_ninja> putting my win7 and ubuntu installers  on external hdd and using a boot loader (prob grub) to launch the installers
[05:11] <_Techie_> dangit, i had a tut for that awhile back
[07:16] <ImJJames> High
[07:18] <ImJJames> Hi
[07:18] <ImJJames> anyone alive in here
[07:22] <_Techie_> no, were all zomies
[07:22] <_Techie_> we manage to help people with their xubuntu problems, all while trying to take over the world
[07:23] <ImJJames> lol
[07:33] <ImJJames> so would you say xubuntu is better for surfing the net than ubuntu?
[07:33] <ImJJames> video streaming etc...
[07:34] <_Techie_> as far as video streaming it would be the same
[07:34] <_Techie_> both ubuntu and xubuntu use the exact same version of firefox with the exact same plugins
[07:35] <ImJJames> ah ok
[07:35] <ImJJames> ty
[07:35] <_Techie_> providing you meet the specs for both version the above applies
[07:36] <ImJJames> 850mhz
[07:36] <ImJJames> 256mb
[07:36] <_Techie_> however if you meet the requirements for xubuntu but not ubuntu your browsing may be hindered in ubuntu
[07:37] <ImJJames> xubuntu faster than windows 2000?
[07:37] <ImJJames> lol
[07:37] <_Techie_> depends on how you use it
[07:37] <ImJJames> web...
[07:37] <ImJJames> dats it
[07:37] <ImJJames> strictly web
[07:37] <ImJJames> and porn video's
[07:37] <ImJJames> LOL
[07:37] <_Techie_> atleast your not ashamed to say that
[07:37] <_Techie_> brb
[07:38] <Tesssa> i have both xubuntu and win7 home premium on my puter must admit i prefer xubuntu
[07:39] <Tesssa> just thought i would mention that
[07:40] <Tesssa> for what it's worth
[07:40] <_Techie_> it all depends on the user and what they do with their machine
[07:40] <Tesssa> yep
[07:40] <_Techie_> i play a fair amount of games so im anchored to windows
[07:40] <_Techie_> however i have substantial linux knowledge
[07:42] <Tesssa> well time to go duty calls bye for now
[07:43] <ImJJames> yeah
[07:43] <ImJJames> no games will be played on this laptop
[07:43] <ImJJames> just strictly web
[10:26] <SAngeli> I run xubuntu what software can you advice me to download to convert divx to avi?
[10:29] <_Techie_> divx uses the avi container
[10:34] <_Techie_> goodnight everyone
[11:41] <Benkinooby> hi got a small request... i want to find out about remote desktop, so i shared my desktop with krfb
[11:41] <Benkinooby> just want to find out if everything is configured correctly
[11:41] <Benkinooby> is some1 willing to try to connect to my pc?
[11:41] <_Pete_> that can happen
[11:42] <cheeko> is ther any linux alternatives for teracopy which increases the speed of copy in windows
[11:42] <_Pete_> no
[11:43] <cheeko> cant we increase the speed of copying in linux
[11:43] <cheeko> coz what tera copy does is instead of copying just one block it copies 5-6 blocks it boosts up the speed
[11:44] <_Pete_> yes you can
[11:44] <_Pete_> buy faster discs / more memory
[11:44] <cheeko> so how do i do it
[11:44] <_Pete_> actually first is enough
[11:44] <_Pete_> beoynd that there's nothing you can do
[11:44] <cheeko> listen what im talking abt is pendrives
[11:44] <_Pete_> according to my experience
[11:45] <cheeko> i get speed of 7mbps in windows
[11:45] <_Pete_> copying is done as much it is possible
[11:45] <_Pete_> as fast
[11:45] <cheeko> while in linux i only get 1 mbps while transfers
[11:45] <cheeko> but that aint the limit right
[11:45] <_Pete_> that might be some usb-kernel issue then?
[11:46] <cheeko> in linux ??
[11:46] <Sysi> or windows measures wrong?
[11:46] <_Pete_> yes
[11:46] <cheeko> or with the hardware
[11:46] <_Pete_> I remember there was some issues like that
[11:46] <_Pete_> with certain kernel versions
[11:46] <cheeko> nope the file is been verified for its intergrity
[11:47] <cheeko> and the measuring is perfect
[11:47] <_Pete_> what perfect measuremnt tool uses mbps as unit?
[11:47] <cheeko>  i actully copied the same file from both os this was the difference between them
[11:48] <cheeko> Mbps
[11:48] <Sysi> did you measure the time?
[11:48] <cheeko> yup
[11:48] <_Pete_> bps = bits per second?
[11:48] <cheeko> windows took 10 mins while kubuntu took 25 mins
[11:49] <cheeko> yes bits per second
[11:49] <Sysi> this isn't kubuntu channel, did you got ban to there or why you're here?
[11:49] <cheeko> nope this was the typo error my bad
[11:50] <_Pete_> 8 Mbits / s is slow indeed
[11:50] <_Pete_> = 1MB/s about
[11:51] <cheeko> so any solution guys
[11:51] <cheeko> can i contact anywhere
[11:51] <_Pete_> what did google say when you contacted it?
[11:53] <cheeko> it just gaveme spams to win applications
[11:53] <_Pete_> cheeko: what kernel version are you using?
[11:53] <cheeko> 9.04
[11:53] <_Pete_> kernel
[11:53] <_Pete_> uname -a
[11:53] <_Pete_> will tell that
[11:55] <cheeko> 2.6.27
[11:55] <_Pete_> average bandwidth: 4.45 MiB/s
[11:55] <_Pete_> total: 697.51 MiB (731389952 bytes)
[11:55] <_Pete_> hmm
[11:55] <_Pete_> that's slow also
[11:56] <_Pete_> try google: 2.6.27 kernel usb speed problems
[11:56] <_Pete_> or sumething like that
[11:57] <cheeko> thanks guys
[12:59] <syrius> I have problem with webcam xubuntu 9.10 ekiga 3.2.6 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1719295
[13:53] <ablomen> syrius, try changing the "Default input" section under gstreamer-properties or try installing v4l-conf and running that
[13:55] <syrius> where is gstreamer properties ablomen ?
[13:58] <ablomen> type gstreamer-properties in your terminal, but hang on a sec, im googling a bit
[13:58] <ablomen> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-670510.html << did you try this?
[13:59] <ablomen> and this.. https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/33965
[17:35] <Balsaq> dadgum computer can't seem to keep the correct time anymore....
[17:36] <Balsaq> or date...
[17:37] <likemindead> I've never had a time/date problem in Linux. :-\
[17:37] <knome> Balsaq, have you tried using ntp?
[17:45] <Balsaq> well i am on my xp computer now, my linux computers never have time issues
[17:46] <knome> right. then it's possibly the bios battery ran out of power
[17:46] <Balsaq> hmmmm....prolly my 6 years old battery
[17:48] <knome> probably
[18:00] <retour_eu> cody-somerville: Are you here? Still problems with display res
[18:00] <cody-somerville> retour_eu, oh?
[18:04] <retour_eu> do you know a simple way to dump all this latest gizmos and revert my graphic system under 9.10 back to Xorg set up manually and not being able to be modified by HAL and other junk?
[18:04] <retour_eu> our yesterdays trick is not working most of the time anyway.
[18:09] <cody-somerville> retour_eu, just remove the modification made to the startup script and create a xorg.conf
[18:14] <retour_eu> cody-somerville: hmm that is what I tried before entering this room yesterday and as you remember even with your xorg.conf settings were ignored. The gdm trick works most of the time but is still modified pretty often. I.e. when monitor is powered off and I turn on PC system starts in 800x600 on a user2 created after the mod. User 1 that was setup at the system install is still unaccessible.
[18:14] <cody-somerville> Are you ever able to login to user1?
[18:19] <retour_eu> cody-somerville: yes if I only delete mods and let the system force itself back to default 1280@60Hz. No problem - system boots directly into User1 which is setup into autologin. If ther is any mod to resolution to this user it works only 1-st time (right after switching from 1280 to 1024) and after 1-st reboot system tries to autolog, X crashes and dumpes User1 into login screen. During failing login screen flickers showing how systems starts
[18:19] <retour_eu> from login screen forced to 1024 than switches to 1280 than flicker some distortions and back to login screen
[18:21] <cody-somerville> retour_eu, I'm unfortunately busy in the middle of the work day. If you're still having problems later, I'll be more than happy to help you then. Sorry :(
[18:22] <retour_eu> how many hours from now?
[18:23] <cody-somerville> Its only 1:30pm here unfortunately.
[18:23] <retour_eu> For me it's still not too late - should I downgrade back to my old trusty 8.04?
[18:23] <retour_eu> not too late as 9.10 is not a production machine
[18:28] <cody-somerville> retour_eu, I can't make that decision for you. I think 9.04 has a lot of good improvements myself.
[18:44] <mclur3> hm. I have a ixus 70 digital camera. however not able to get it to work in xubuntu. not plug'n'play? anyone know how to fix this? missing drivers?
[18:45] <mclur3> have to remove the SD media card and mount it separately
[18:51] <retour_eu> mclur3: there is a software to detect cameras, download photos etc but I forgot name for it
[18:53] <mclur3> hm..
[18:54] <retour_eu> search synaptic for camera or photo camera etc
[18:54] <cody-somerville> I don't recommend installing random packages to try and get it to work.
[18:55] <cody-somerville> mclur3, Have you used your camera on Windows? Does it show up as mass media or require some special software?
[18:56] <mclur3> don't even use windows. have a external device for mounting sd cards. that thing works
[18:58] <mclur3> trying to find a solution for it on forums etc
[18:59] <retour_eu> listen to cody-somerville but this is what I was using for a long time. If you find driver there to your cam and everything else fails maybe give it a try http://www.digikam.org/
[19:00] <cody-somerville> mclur3, Can you plug in your camera and then pastebin the output of: dmesg | tail -n30
[19:10] <mclur3> *back*
[19:10] <mclur3> I'll give it a try
[19:10] <mclur3> thanks for the help btw
[19:12] <mclur3> cody-somerville: http://pastebin.com/d4185c3a7
[19:12] <mclur3> guess it's the last one. doesn't say much
[19:13] <mclur3> retour_eu: ok. thanks
[19:14] <mclur3> digikam comes with (regular) ubuntu? think I've seen it before when I had ubuntu. but it wasn't working very well
[19:14] <retour_eu> mclur3: be sure your cam is plugged directly to the PC USB hub. Not through the keyboard or USB on the monitor - sometimes makes a difference
[19:16] <mclur3> it's plugged directly into the PC itself. nothing in between
[19:17] <boscop> how can I show the recursive size of folders in the "size" column in thunar?
[19:18] <boscop> maybe with cached values for optimization?
[19:18] <cody-somerville> mclur3, Can you pstebin the output of lsusb?
[19:19] <cody-somerville> boscop, I don't think thats a feature Thunar has
[19:19] <mclur3> cody-somerville: just 'lsusb'?
[19:19] <cody-somerville> mclur3, aye
[19:19] <boscop> cody-somerville: is it possible with a plugin?
[19:19] <cody-somerville> boscop, Maybe but there is none that exist.
[19:19] <cody-somerville> boscop, There is a tool for this though
[19:20] <mclur3> cody-somerville: http://pastebin.com/d711818a8
[19:20] <boscop> cody-somerville: what tool?
[19:20] <cody-somerville> boscop, trying to remember the name :)
[19:21] <mclur3> thunar shows the recursive size only if you select 'properties'
[19:21] <mclur3> on a folder itself
[19:21] <boscop> cody-somerville: you mean on cmd line?
[19:22] <cody-somerville> boscop, oh, you can just use du -hcs on a directory on the command line
[19:22] <cody-somerville> boscop, gdmap is a graphical tool to help visualize disk usage
[19:22] <cody-somerville> boscop, try that
[19:23] <cody-somerville> There is another better one but I can't remember the name right now
[19:24] <cody-somerville> boscop, aye, mclur3's suggestion might work for you
[19:24] <cody-somerville> mclur3, is your camera still plugged in?
[19:27] <mclur3> cody-somerville: nope. have to get the pizza I ordered now. back later. thanks!
[21:14] <darkdigitaldream> hello, I just set up a new system and I cant get the monitor to the resolution I want. There is no xorg.conf to be found, and a dpkg-reconfigure does nothing. Has anyone experienced this?
[21:15] <djura-san> did you installed drivers for your graphic card?
[21:15] <djura-san> *driver
[21:15] <vinnl> !resolution
[21:17] <darkdigitaldream> djura-san: its an integrated intel card. I have not put in a driver myself, but in the past ubuntu has been good with supporting these 'out of the box' so to speak.
[21:17] <djura-san> okay
[21:17] <djura-san> so you need to add your desired resolution in xrog config
[21:18] <djura-san> or try xfce4-display-manager
[21:18] <djura-san> or try xfce4-display-settings (sorry)
[21:18] <darkdigitaldream> display manager has it locked at 800x600. xorg.conf does not exist, and my attempts at placing one in /etc/X11 were pretty disasterous
[21:18] <djura-san> nows that?
[21:19] <darkdigitaldream> needed a rescue disk to boot and remove the file. It wouldnt even start on its own.
[21:19] <djura-san> aha
[21:19] <djura-san> use slax or something smaller
[21:19] <djura-san> for rescue
[21:19] <vinnl> darkdigitaldream, have you checked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution?
[21:20] <darkdigitaldream> vinnl: looking at it now
[21:20] <vinnl> :)
[21:21] <darkdigitaldream> djura-san: well I got it running again, but only by taking out the xorg.conf file, which brings me back to square one.
[21:21] <djura-san> okay then
[21:22] <djura-san> so did you tried xrandr?
[21:22] <_Techie_> darkdigitaldream, we were working on a very similar problem last night, can you please pastebint he output of xrandr
[21:22] <_Techie_> !pastebin
[21:23] <darkdigitaldream> _Techie_, http://pastebin.com/m218e270b
[21:23] <_Techie_> hrmm
[21:24] <_Techie_> youll need to create a new resolution
[21:24] <_Techie_> unfortunately i cant guide you through that as im not in linux and im focusing on xbox modding stuff
[21:25] <_Techie_> what was the desired resolution?
[21:25] <darkdigitaldream> vinnl, the 'add undetected resolution' in that link you gave me is giving me issues. I dont know enough about xrandr at the moment to know whats wrong, but it is a good lead
[21:25] <darkdigitaldream> 1024 at least.
[21:25] <darkdigitaldream> I just want to get off the 800x600
[21:25] <_Techie_> the command that your gonne and up with in the end will be xrandr --output VGA1 --mode 1024x768
[21:26] <vinnl> darkdigitaldream, what issues?
[21:26] <darkdigitaldream> 'cannot find mode 1024x768'... hmm
[21:26] <_Techie_> darkdigitaldream, thats because we havent created the mode yet
[21:26] <vinnl> See the command after "If the mode doesn't yet exist, you'll need to create it first by specifying a modeline: "
[21:28] <darkdigitaldream> yeah, I see it. I'm gonna check out the xrandr man page to wrap my head around the command needed. The guide doesnt work as copy-paste verbatim
[21:33] <darkdigitaldream> http://pastebin.com/m1d4d5a66 Okay. A little closer
[21:36] <djura-san> does xubuntu alternate disk still inclueds openoffice?
[21:36] <djura-san> anyone?
[21:36] <Sysi> no
[21:36] <Sysi> but abiword and gnumeric
[21:36] <djura-san> not anymore?
[21:37] <vinnl> djura-san, I believe it still did, wait, there might still have been recent bugreports about that
[21:37] <vinnl> It might just have been removed before the final release of 9.10
[21:38] <djura-san> where to check out vinnl ? i like text install so i would like to try it (and with opeoffice as before)
[21:39] <vinnl> I'm afraid it still is... See bug 437368
[21:39] <vinnl> djura-san, it doesn't matter which CD you use I believe
[21:39] <vinnl> Hey ubottu, I said bug #437368 dammit
[21:39] <djura-san> :)
[21:39] <vinnl> LP 437368 then?
[21:39] <vinnl> *sigh* OK here's the link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/437368
[21:39] <vinnl> I'll never get ubottu :(
[21:40] <darkdigitaldream> vinnl, djura-san, _Techie_ : Thanks for the help. Between the xrandr man page, your words, and the wiki link you gave me, it worked. Perfect!
[21:40] <vinnl> Great :)
[21:40] <djura-san> yay
[21:40] <djura-san> another happy ending
[21:40] <djura-san> :)
[21:41] <djura-san> vinnl, i cant se here info about removing!?
[21:41] <darkdigitaldream> http://pastebin.com/m1f107079 Heres what I did specifically, if the information is useful to anyone
[21:41] <vinnl> djura-san, oh, you can just uninstall it after installation, that's no problem :)
[21:42] <djura-san> no its not a problem but what ybuto netless systems?
[21:42] <djura-san> *but what about
[21:43] <vinnl> Netless?
[21:43] <djura-san> without net
[21:43] <djura-san> any net
[21:43] <vinnl> You mean without internet? You can still uninstall it there
[23:20] <djura-san> so
[23:20] <djura-san> why is update manager (and apt) showing firefox package as security update even when i errase firefox? its forsing me to install firefox
[23:21] <djura-san> im not against xul but firefox (as binary for firefox browser) is something that i download from mozilla site manually
[23:24] <djura-san> anyone?
[23:25] <Sysi> do it actually install firefox, have you tried?
[23:26] <djura-san> havetn tried yet
[23:26] <djura-san> *have not
[23:26] <Sysi> for example i get updates to openoffice
[23:26] <djura-san> are you saying that its dummy package?
[23:29] <Sysi> idk
[23:29] <djura-san> idk?
[23:29] <Sysi> i currently have centos, this is awesome :)
[23:29] <Sysi> i don't know
[23:29] <djura-san> aha
[23:30] <djura-san> i googled it
[23:30] <djura-san> :)
[23:30] <djura-san> yeah 7y of support. sounds nice
[23:30] <Sysi> everything working sounds nice
[23:30] <Sysi> and i like yum
[23:31] <djura-san> "everything working sounds nice" thats why im using xubuntu :>
[23:32] <Sysi> if everything just would worke :/
[23:32] <Sysi> it did in 9.04
[23:32] <djura-san> anyway can i just use xubuntu without firefox?
[23:32] <Sysi> of course
[23:33] <djura-san> (works at my place)
[23:33] <djura-san> so how to avoit updates for it?
[23:33] <djura-san> *avoid
[23:33] <djura-san> (other then to manually deselect them)
[23:37] <djura-san> anyone?
[23:38] <Sysi> why do those updates bother you?
[23:38] <djura-san> yes
[23:38] <djura-san> there are stupid since i dont use firefox
[23:38] <djura-san> (not the one from ubuntu anyway)
[23:39] <djura-san> so why do i have to donwload 7mb of something that i dont want?
[23:39] <djura-san> sound a little nonsece to me
[23:39] <djura-san> *nonsense
[23:40] <djura-san> also pining program is not a solution either


[15:10] <madnick> http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter.png
[15:10] <madnick> knome:
[15:10] <madnick> comments?
[15:11] <madnick> The < > are for iterating through users and sessinos
[15:11] <charlie-tca> madnick: how will the user know that means that?
[15:12] <charlie-tca> That is about as intuitive as the gear unity is using
[15:12] <madnick> So it should cleary state
[15:12] <charlie-tca> please
[15:12] <madnick> Sessions:
[15:12] <madnick> okay
[15:16] <madnick> charlie-tca: how would you want it presented? Usability wise, a list that is always visable?
[15:17] <charlie-tca> I don't care if the list itself is always there, but the identity of what the list is needs to be there.
[15:17] <madnick> ah
[15:17] <charlie-tca> The idea that new users will not know anything anyway is fine for unity. That is their goal. Mine is users need to know what anything we put up means
[15:18] <charlie-tca> If the user has to click everything on the page to guess what anything is, it fails
[15:19] <charlie-tca> right now, since unity login defaults to the original user of the system, I get password failed on every login
[15:19] <charlie-tca> There is nothing easy to show who is logging in, what session they are picking, where to pick a session, etc.
[15:20] <charlie-tca> There is not even a blinking cursor to say you actually managed to select the password bos
[15:20] <charlie-tca> s/bos/box
[15:20] <madnick> nope, they hide that
[15:20] <madnick> ok
[15:20] <madnick> So usability is priority 1 :)
[15:20] <madnick> Ill see what I can do
[15:20] <charlie-tca> yes
[15:21] <charlie-tca> If we have a pretty interface that is horrible to use, it fails
[15:22] <madnick> yeah
[15:22] <charlie-tca> I would rather stay with the gtk greeter than have something remotely resembling unity right now
[15:22] <charlie-tca> Sorry. I know that doesn't sound right, but usability is everything
[15:23] <madnick> Maybe I should explain what I was thinking :) I thought "default session -> default user -> enter password -> login"
[15:23] <madnick> I was thinking that was a clean way for new users not to poke around too much
[15:24] <madnick> But I do understand that It lacks explainatory features, and I will fix them
[15:24] <charlie-tca> That works, but if a user doesn't know what to do to change a session???
[15:25] <madnick> Yeah it must state Session there, I wouldnt understand it myself tbh when i think about it :P
[15:25] <charlie-tca> Users do not know by tele-kinesis what we expect them to, even if Unity thinks they do
[15:26] <TheSheep> you mean tele-cognition?
[15:26] <madnick> i guess i could make a panel like in 11.04
[15:26] <TheSheep> kinesis is when things move
[15:26] <charlie-tca> More and more, designers are planning things that users "can learn to do", instead of "using it should not take learning"
[15:26] <madnick> for session selection
[15:26] <charlie-tca> Thanks, TheSheep
[15:26] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: everything takes learning
[15:27] <madnick> on the bbottom :)
[15:27] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: the only intuitive interface is the nipple
[15:27] <charlie-tca> TheSheep: does that mean we can't make it easy to learn?
[15:27] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: you can make it similar to other things you have learned
[15:27] <charlie-tca> Obviously, you haven't tried the unity-greeter lately?
[15:27] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: but new people will find *that* awkward, as they will lack your exposure to windows 95 user interface
[15:28] <charlie-tca> huh?
[15:28] <charlie-tca> what did windows 95 have?
[15:28] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: unity is horrible, but not because of reinventing things
[15:28] <charlie-tca> I liked the windows 3.1 login
[15:28] <charlie-tca> heh
[15:28] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: it's horrible because of a really bad process of inventing and testing them
[15:28] <charlie-tca> and no, I am not opposed to change :)
[15:29] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: no, I didn't see unity greeter, but I can imagine it
[15:29] <charlie-tca> They have a gear now, which might be hidden by having too long a name, to click on to change sessions
[15:30] <TheSheep> why would you want to change sessions? ;)
[15:30] <charlie-tca> You can have about 20 letters in name only now
[15:30] <TheSheep> I was thinking about switching to haiku
[15:30] <TheSheep> it has a nice and well thought out user interface
[15:30]  * charlie-tca slaps head. never occurred to him they don't want the user changing sessions
[15:31] <charlie-tca> Hopefully, Xubuntu will have a nice, well thought out interface, too.
[15:32] <TheSheep> it's breaking down slowly
[15:32] <madnick> how do i see what version of lightdm is in the repo?
[15:32] <madnick> (using the channel bot) :P
[15:32] <charlie-tca> madnick: we do still have crt users, too. Not everyone has high-quality, high-definition lcd or plasma displays yet.
[15:32] <charlie-tca> !info lightdm
[15:32] <madnick> thanks
[15:32] <charlie-tca> If you need the oneiric one, use
[15:32] <charlie-tca> !info lightdm oneiric
[15:33] <charlie-tca> Since oneiric is development only at this time, it takes extra work to see the package
[15:34] <charlie-tca> but that is a big jump in versions
[15:35] <charlie-tca> I have to order another motherboard, I guess. This latest used computer I picked up just keeps failing
[15:35] <charlie-tca> I guess that is what $10.00 US dollars buys now
[15:38] <madnick> http://madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/xubuntu-greeter-draft.png
[15:38] <madnick> quick change
[15:38] <madnick> ill do something about users also
[15:38] <madnick> But something like that (even tho it wont look like that, but you get the idea:))
[15:38] <madnick> Sessions and keyboard settings at bottom
[15:46] <charlie-tca> That's the idea.
[15:46] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[15:46] <charlie-tca> Don't let anyone tell you we don't want that, though
[15:47] <charlie-tca> You can't make everyone happy, I know that. Trying to get all of us to agree will result in no display at all
[15:49] <madnick> speaking of that, the plymouth stuff; you wanted a package on monday? knome said he get back to me before friday, so i will have ~2 days :P
[15:49] <madnick> ochosi still not here
[15:49] <madnick> :(
[15:49] <charlie-tca> If I was you, I would have a package ready or close to it.
[15:49] <madnick> charlie-tca: i do already ;)
[15:49] <madnick> I just have not built it yet
[15:50] <charlie-tca> User interface freeze is August 25. We have to have it in before that
[15:50] <madnick> But all scripts etc are in place to just hit "build"
[15:50] <charlie-tca> I see ochosi isn't here yet. Maybe he is on holidays this week too?
[15:51] <charlie-tca> You can always ask TheSheep too. He is very good with critique of the work
[15:51] <madnick> :)
[15:56] <micahg> is it possible to set the background with the gtk greeter using lightdm-set-defaults?
[15:59] <charlie-tca> I can't even seem to get rid of the unity-greeter here. Without it, lightdm won't start
[15:59] <micahg> charlie-tca: heh, I said that the other day :)
[16:00] <charlie-tca> Got to have a new install, I guess
[16:00] <charlie-tca> desktop images working today
[16:01] <charlie-tca> Lightdm is working good with lightdm-gtk-greeter on fresh installs and live sessions
[16:02] <charlie-tca> Guess I will remove it from this machine completely, and then reinstall it
[16:02] <charlie-tca> I really dislike unity-greeter
[16:03] <charlie-tca> I have reached the point of really, really not liking the way it works
[16:06] <micahg> I think lightdm needs package triggers
[16:07] <micahg> charlie-tca: can you try dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings?
[16:07] <charlie-tca> to get rid of unity-greeter?
[16:09] <charlie-tca> $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure xubuntu-default-settings
[16:09] <charlie-tca> [sudo] password for charlie:
[16:09] <charlie-tca> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME missing
[16:09] <charlie-tca> dpkg-maintscript-helper: warning: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_PACKAGE missing
[16:09] <micahg> \o/
[16:09]  * charlie-tca nods
[16:10] <micahg> charlie-tca: not to get rid of unity, but it should reconfigure lightdm to use the gtk greeter
[16:10] <charlie-tca> I see
[16:10] <charlie-tca> It doesn't run
[16:10] <micahg> in theory
[16:10] <charlie-tca> heh
[16:10] <charlie-tca> at least I don't think it did
[16:13] <micahg> well, mr_pouit made xubuntu-default-settings set certain env settings for lightdm IIRC
[16:15] <charlie-tca> It seems very difficult this cycle to get the already installed stuff at the same place as the fresh installs
[16:15] <charlie-tca> And I don't mean just us, either
[16:20] <charlie-tca> I will be doing a fresh installation here for beta1, if not sooner
[17:37] <mr_pouit> o hai (sorry for being silent for a week, but i've been a bit bored but all these lightdm issues, so I took a "forced" break until they did something :/)
[17:38] <mr_pouit> micahg: dpkg-reconfiguring won't do, because the maintainer scripts only change lightdm's config if nothing is already defined
[17:38] <mr_pouit> s/but/by/
[17:39] <mr_pouit> you can run manually: sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --session=xubuntu
[17:39] <mr_pouit> and sudo /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm-set-defaults --greeter=lightdm-gtk-greeter
[17:39] <mr_pouit> (if you don't want to override any existing settings, add --keep-old
[17:39] <micahg> mr_pouit: cool, thanks
[18:23] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the only problem I have with that is the "they" decided lightdm was finished and working, and I had to figure out what to push hard to get it fixed.
[18:24] <charlie-tca> But anyway, it seems we got it done!
[21:06] <madnick> Seems a bit late for this mutliarch things :)
[21:06] <madnick> i mean ia32 wont live much longer :P
[21:32] <micahg> madnick: multiarch has been in progress since last cycle and will continue for a few more
[21:40] <madnick> :)


[01:31] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/drop-populate-specification-aag/+merge/143627
[01:42] <wgrant> StevenK: Self-review?
[01:44] <StevenK> wgrant: Happy to do, wondering if you agree with deciding to not run it against sampledata.
[01:45] <wgrant> StevenK: I forget -- will it un-null access_grants if it's public?
[01:45] <wgrant> If it will, then it's not a no-op and should be run
[01:45] <wgrant> But IIRC it leaves access_grants null in that case, so it will be a no-op
[01:49] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1540007/
[01:50] <wgrant> Right, no-op
[02:30] <wgrant> StevenK: Need any help with the model branch?
[02:41] <StevenK> wgrant: Yes
[02:41] <wgrant> Push branch, show test failures :)
[02:41] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1540093/ is the diff; test failures are http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1536679/
[02:45] <StevenK> wgrant: I can push the branch if you'd prefer that to a diff.
[02:46] <wgrant> StevenK: Have you replicated the Product.active check that was in visible_specification_query?
[02:46] <StevenK> Oh god
[02:47] <StevenK> That's so not the place for it
[02:47] <wgrant> Mmm, it was not unreasonable
[02:47] <wgrant> Given that the spec search stuff isn't in a single place, like bugtasksearch is
[02:48] <StevenK> Now I will have to revert the tables bit :-(
[03:47] <StevenK> My query seems to fail
[03:47] <StevenK> It won't return distribution specs :-(
[03:48] <wgrant> StevenK: You failed to left join properly
[03:49] <wgrant> You need to left join product and then say (product.active IS NULL or product.active)
[03:58] <wgrant> StevenK: Did you see danilos' confirmation of my suspicion this morning?
[03:58] <wgrant> The deps thing is indeed a regression from the privacy work, so your rewrite will fix it
[03:58] <StevenK> I'm not sure if my rewrite is brutal enough for that yet
[03:59] <StevenK> Anyway, looking at that next.
[04:00] <StevenK> wgrant: And yes, I saw it because Curtis asked me about it.
[04:01] <wgrant> Well
[04:01] <wgrant> The rewrite involves reverting all the previous changes
[04:01] <wgrant> So it will be :)
[04:01] <StevenK> It does not
[04:01] <wgrant> :(
[04:02] <StevenK> There are fair amount of changes which are required, like passing users around
[04:02] <wgrant> Ah, of course
[04:09] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/use-specification-aag/+merge/143630
[04:16] <wgrant> StevenK: r=me with a comment, but please check performance on DF first
[04:20] <StevenK> wgrant: I think I need a LeftJoin in sharingjob, too
[04:21] <wgrant> StevenK: Ah, yes, so you do
[04:21] <StevenK> wgrant: So http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1540213/
[04:21] <wgrant> In fact sharingjob shouldn't be considering product.active at all
[04:22] <StevenK> wgrant: I can change it to only append privacy_query[-1], but that's a bit horrid
[04:23] <wgrant> Yeah, that's not a solution :)
[04:23] <wgrant> I guess do the left join but otherwise leave it as it is
[04:24] <StevenK> I can shift out the product stuff out of get_specification_privacy_filter and do it all callsites bar that one, but I like that even less
[04:34] <StevenK> wgrant: DF has been patched, and has actually swapped back in enough to render pages.
[04:39] <StevenK> wgrant: The main query of blueprints.dogfood.l.n/~ takes 240ms
[04:41] <StevenK> The old query on prod is roughly the same, but prod is a lot faster than DF
[04:45] <StevenK> For https://blueprints.dogfood.launchpad.net/nova , the query is 10ms
[04:46] <wgrant> StevenK: Grab an explain analyze of the slow query
[04:47] <StevenK> On DF, or prod?
[04:48] <wgrant> DF
[04:48] <wgrant> We know that prod's is terrible :)
[04:49] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1540253/
[04:50] <StevenK> wgrant: And the query http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1540256/
[04:52] <wgrant> StevenK: Right, that looks fine.
[04:53] <wgrant> It's terrible, but that's not the fault of your changes
[04:53] <StevenK> Heh
[04:54] <StevenK> Distribution is quick, but that doesn't involve the new columns at all, Product is like 10ms
[04:54] <wgrant> Hm, it should involve the new columns
[04:55] <StevenK> Distribution doesn't filter at all
[04:55] <StevenK> By access_policy/grants, I mean
[04:55] <StevenK> No private distributions, ergo no private blueprints for any distribution.
[04:56] <wgrant> :/
[04:56] <wgrant> It just assumes that they're all public
[04:56] <wgrant> Doesn't even check
[04:56] <StevenK> I can fix that, if you wish
[04:57] <StevenK> Which would involve Storm-ifying it
[04:57] <wgrant> Which is not a bad thing at all :)
[04:57] <wgrant> Ideally we'd unify blueprint search like bug search is
[04:58] <StevenK> Well, I can do that too ...
[04:58] <wgrant> That's probably a bit more of an effort
[04:58] <wgrant> But maybe
[05:06] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1540277/
[05:09] <wgrant> StevenK: orlf
[05:09] <wgrant> have you looked at the query log for Person:+specs?
[05:09] <StevenK> Yeah, I glanced it
[05:10] <wgrant> First it checks if there are any specs
[05:10] <wgrant> Then it gets the specs
[05:10] <wgrant> Then it counts the specs
[05:10] <wgrant> Then it checks if there are any specs
[05:10] <wgrant> StevenK: You could get ops to check the new query on prod
[05:11] <StevenK> Haha
[05:11] <wgrant> Given it's all populated there now
[05:11] <StevenK> wgrant: The EXPLAIN or just run the query for timing?
[05:11] <wgrant> explain analyze
[05:11] <wgrant> but oh god have you tried the old query on DF?
[05:11] <wgrant> Your eyes may burn
[05:11] <StevenK> Show me?
[05:12] <wgrant> 1.4s with tonnes of merge joins
[05:12] <StevenK> Haha
[05:12] <wgrant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1540286/
[05:12] <wgrant> The new one could be considered to be a marginal improvement
[05:13] <StevenK> Haha
[05:13] <StevenK> Did you spot your typo in the name field?
[05:13] <wgrant> yes, before I submitted but I'm sick enough that I really couldn't be bothered fixing it
[05:14] <StevenK> wgrant: So, specificationsearch, or leave it?
[05:14] <wgrant> Depends on what sort of callsites we have
[05:31] <StevenK> Bah, is_not_in doesn't exist
[05:37] <wgrant> Not(...is_in)
[05:37] <StevenK> Yeah
[05:37] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1540315/ works, do you want it in the branch?
[05:38] <wgrant> StevenK: Can Specification.completeness_clause now be Stormified?
[05:38] <wgrant> Not sure what other non-Storm callsites there would be
[05:39] <wgrant> +                clauses.append(
[05:39] <wgrant> +                    SQL('Specification.fti @@ ftq(%s)' % quote(constraint)))
[05:39] <wgrant> fti_search is a helper for that, IIRC
[05:39] <StevenK> wgrant: Yeah, I just switched to that
[05:40] <StevenK> Distribution, DistroSeries, Product and ProductSeries want it
[05:41] <wgrant> Are they all stormified?
[05:41] <StevenK> Sorry, DistroSeries, ProductSeries and ProjectGroup
[05:41] <StevenK> And all three are not
[05:43] <wgrant> Hee hee
[05:43] <wgrant> I'll leave the explanation of that to the reader
[05:44] <StevenK> "When we get around to specificationsearch"
[05:44] <StevenK> Which I'm getting dangerously close to just starting
[05:44] <StevenK> Because this is just pathetic
[05:50] <wgrant> Ah
[05:50] <wgrant> Not actually exploitable, sadly
[05:51] <wgrant> Since permissions for private specs don't seem to be precached
[05:51] <wgrant> So you just get a 403
[05:51] <wgrant> (but that also means there's probably a timeout bug on any page that lists lots of private specs)
[05:51] <wgrant> StevenK: So, how do you feel about doing specificationsearch? :)
[05:52] <wgrant> 'cause what we have today is sort of buggy as shit
[05:52] <StevenK> wgrant: So, guess what I started about 5 minutes ago
[06:01] <wgrant> StevenK: Bug #1100617 is relevant
[06:01] <_mup_> Bug #1100617: Blueprint searches don't precache permission checks <blueprints> <fallout> <private-projects> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1100617 >
[08:19] <czajkowski> morning
[10:40] <stub1> link to online help on the recipe page seems to have disappeared
[14:22] <gmb> benji, gary_poster, bac: So, in a fit of giddiness I tried to get around the only-one-external-link-in-a-card problem; if you have time to look at it, see https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/lp2kanban/cards2workitems/+merge/143543 for the latest update. If not, I'll just land yesterday's work and make a new branch for the new stuff.
[14:23] <benji> gmb: cool; I may have time later today to look at it
[14:24]  * gary_poster on call
[14:29] <gmb> benji, Okay; in that case I'll land yesterday's work (I'm hoping to be able to show this off to people in Austin) and make a fresh branch and merge proposal.
[14:29] <benji> k
[14:38] <gmb> benji, New merge proposal is here for your delectation when you get a chance: https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/lp2kanban/dont-rely-on-external_system_url/+merge/143700
[14:38] <benji> gmb: cool
[16:47] <cjwatson> Hm - is it just me or is lib/lp/soyuz/templates/binarypackagepublishinghistory-listing-detailed.pt dead?  I can't actually see a way to get at it, short of URL-hacking to add +listing-details
[16:56] <cjwatson> Maybe it is there somewhere and I'm just too stupid to find it.
[17:00] <czajkowski> I'd hardly think you could you of all people cjwatson are stupid !
[17:18] <deryck> cjwatson, my approach to that if I can't find any real reference to it is to remove the zcml that hooks up the template, run tests, and see what breaks. you're probably right.
[19:30] <lifeless> czajkowski: LP sets a pretty high bar on smarts-needed-to-tell-whats -used :)
[23:13] <wgrant> cjwatson: I think DASBPR:+index used to use it, but hasn't since 3.0
[23:14] <wgrant> It's unused now, and I think the only callsite of its source counterpart is DSSPR:+index
[23:14] <wgrant> Everywhere else uses +listing-archive-extra
[23:14] <wgrant> IIRC
[23:36] <cjwatson> Argh, you know unused code is old when bzr log goes back to a Mark commit
[23:36] <cjwatson> (Not the same thing)
[23:37] <wgrant> Heh, yes.
[23:37] <wgrant> cjwatson: What was it?
[23:38] <cjwatson> lib/lp/soyuz/browser/publishedpackage.py - removing it as part of my current branch
[23:40]  * cjwatson wonders if database/schema/launchpad.html still has a useful purpose
[23:40] <cjwatson> Aside from indicating that publishedpackage was once "a very large view"
[23:41] <cjwatson> wgrant: How do I actually get to a BinaryPublishingRecordView in the webapp?  I can't come up with a suitable URL
[23:43] <wgrant> Huh
[23:44] <wgrant> How has publishedpackage survived...
[23:44] <wgrant> I deleted some related bits years ago
[23:44] <wgrant> But apparently missed the browser stuff
[23:44] <wgrant> I guess I didn't think it existed :)
[23:44] <wgrant> Ah
[23:44] <wgrant> And it doesn't actually mention 'publishedpackage' anywhere in it, so a grep would have failed
[23:45] <wgrant> launchpad.html can probably die
[23:45] <cjwatson> $ wc -l database/schema/launchpad.html
[23:45] <cjwatson> 30685 database/schema/launchpad.html
[23:46] <wgrant> Indeed
[23:46]  * cjwatson removes :)
[23:46] <wgrant> cjwatson: Also, https://launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive/ppa/+binarypub/25603241/+record-details
[23:49] <cjwatson> Ah.  Are there no more polished paths that use stuff from there?
[23:49] <cjwatson> This is in aid of trying to figure out which bits of the webapp I need to update to show phased_update_percentage
[23:49] <wgrant> cjwatson: That's the only URL, but ZCML could reference those views.