[00:14] <racarr> got a failing acceptance test for touch input picking (i.e. multiple visible clients stacked, such as the launcher and an application)
[00:14] <racarr> and a plan...lots of steps though
[00:14] <racarr> hopefully should finish by tomorro
[08:21] <alf__> alan_g: Good morning!
[08:21] <alan_g> alf__: Good morning!
[08:22] <alf__> alan_g: @message-processor-report-lttng, can you please paste(bin) the full (detailed) output of the failing test runs
[08:22] <alf__> alan_g: (when you get the time)
[08:23] <alan_g> alf__: I can, but there's nothing that looks more useful than I pasted to the comments. Would it be a better use of our time for me to try debugging for an hour or so?
[08:35] <alf__> alan_g: Probably :) The error from lttng indicates that the communication threads that lttng uses to communicate with its daemon have either died or never started. I was wondering if there were any other error messages, perhaps at the beginning of the tests, that would give us more hints about what happened.
[08:36] <alan_g> alf__: I woudln't expect lttng to be doing anything unless asked. (which it wasn't)
[08:37] <alan_g> alf__: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5686305/
[08:37] <alf__> alan_g: it opens a connection to its daemon as soon as the lttng-ust shared object is loaded (through a shared object "constructor" function)
[08:38] <alan_g> Hmm is that a cost we want in "normal" operation?
[08:41] <alan_g> alf__: without having dived into the code is lttng waiting for a connection to its daemon? And might a timeout there cause a problem with our test setup timeouts?
[08:43] <alan_g> alf__: I'll see if I can track down exactly what the failure mode is...
[08:43] <alf__> alan_g: @cost, if it turns out to be a problem, we can work around it by loading liblttng-ust dynamically at runtime when an lttng reporter is constructed
[08:44] <alan_g> alf__: ack.
[08:45] <alf__> alan_g: also, looking at the lttng-ust man page, there are the following env. variables:  LTTNG_UST_DEBUG and LTTNG_UST_REGISTER_TIMEOUT which may help debug the problem
[08:53] <alf__> alan_g: I think I should go with dlopen anyway, and hopefully that will fix the problem you are seeing, too
[08:54] <alan_g> alf__: the env variables don't affect the test failure (or output)
[08:54]  * alan_g would like to understand the problem, not just avoid it
[08:56] <alf__> alan_g: Interesting, I can know reproduce the failures you are seeing! I have no idea what changed :/
[08:57] <alan_g> alf__: :/
[08:58] <alf__> alan_g: ok, so make test passes, but ctest (or running e.g. bin/integration-tests directly) fails
[08:59] <alan_g> alf__: I never run "make test" - but you're right, it passes
[09:00]  * alan_g thinks that is unreasonable
[09:00] <alf__> alan_g: I think I found the problem:
[09:01] <alan_g> \o/
[09:01] <alf__> From the manpage: "Some extra care is needed when using liblttng-ust with daemon applications that call fork(), clone(), or BSD rfork() without a following exec() family system call. The library "liblttng-ust-fork.so" needs to be preloaded for the application (launch with e.g. LD_PRELOAD=liblttng-ust-fork.so appname)"
[09:01] <alf__> alan_g: and doing this solves the problem for me
[09:02] <alan_g> alf__: me too. (How does running via cmake do that?)
[09:06] <alan_g> alf__: In any case, I think we should be dynamically loading lttng - not requiring it regardless.
[09:07] <alf__> alan_g: Agreed, I will give dynamic loading a spin and see what comes of it
[09:09] <alan_g> alf__: I wonder if you can dynamically load liblttng-ust-fork.so in the test configuration or if it needs to be preloaded.
[09:11] <alf__> alan_g: no idea, I will experiment
[09:11] <alan_g> Good luck!
[09:41] <hikiko> alf__, ping :)
[09:42] <alf__> hikiko: pong
[09:45] <hikiko> hello, question: what exactly the vt does? you said I don't need it to run the render_to_fb example but without it I get runtime errors: Failed to find the current VT, so I guess I have to add it to my display...
[09:46] <hikiko> (or maybe I should just add it and have only one vt active? I am not sure I got 100% what it does :))
[09:49] <alf__> hikiko: The vt is an abstraction for the linux virtual terminal, which is not needed for SDL. 1. are you sure render_to_fb is using the sdl backend when you run it 2. do you use the vt in the sdl platform/display code?
[09:51] <hikiko> 1. I guess so, I configured cmake to use sdl, I would get a compile error if it didn't isn't it? 2. no
[09:51] <hikiko> shall I use it?
[09:56] <alf__> hikiko: you shouldn't use it, SDL doesn't care about VTs
[09:56] <alf__> hikiko: but you need to find out why you end up in VT code
[09:57] <hikiko> yes I will :) I just asked you to get sure I don't need the vt!
[09:57] <hikiko> thanks :)
[09:57] <alf__> hikiko: sure, np :)
[13:49] <alan_g> alf__: do you know why OverlayRenderer::render() needs a graphics::DisplayBuffer?  (As opposed to, say, a ViewArea)  I can't find any code that justifies it - and it would simplify some refactoring if it needed less.
[13:57] <alf__> alan_g: I guess it depends on how generic we would want to make OverlayRenderer. For example an overlay could need to render to an offscreen buffer first (=the display buffer would lose its "current" rendering target status) and then the overlay would need to make the display buffer current again, so it needs some access to the display buffer (or perhaps we could provide it with a std::function<> make_display_buffer).
[13:58] <alf__> alan_g: but these are only assumptions... For now I don't think anything but the software cursor uses the overlay
[13:59] <alf__> alan_g: Also I would argue that we don't the overlay at all: whoever needs a special compositing strategy with overlays or whatever, should just create their own new strategy...
[14:00] <alan_g> alf__: I was wondering what was special about overlays. I didn't find any code using them - where's the software cursor stuff?
[14:02] <alf__> alan_g: probably hidden in one of racarr's branches :)
[14:03]  * alan_g thinks "if it isn't on trunk I can break it"
[14:04] <kgunn> alan_g: alf__ at least on the phone, the hwc api is supposed to be the support mechanism
[14:04] <kgunn> for overlays
[14:04] <kgunn> because, everyones hw is a bit weird
[14:04] <kgunn> e.g. caveats
[14:05] <kgunn> on things like i can't support bgr mixed with rgb formats
[14:05] <kgunn> at any rate, overlays are there
[14:10] <alf__> kgunn: If the OverlayRenderer was indeed meant as an abstraction for the HW overlay, it makes more sense. But I always thought it was just a mechanism to provide an easy way for examples or the shell to draw over the display.
[14:11] <alan_g> kgunn: you're saying that we need overlay support separately from other surfaces because they don't even go via the DisplayBuffer (and don't need it)
[14:11] <alf__> alan_g: kgunn: Let's hear what racarr's intention was for it
[14:12] <kgunn> alf__: ack on that
[14:13] <alan_g> yep, sorry. (I optimistically hoped for someone that's around would know.)
[14:14] <kgunn> alf__: not sure i think about it correctly...but yeah, overlays head for a "specialized" piece of hw
[14:14] <kgunn> and that special hw is really a composition engine
[14:15] <kgunn> of 2d nature
[14:16] <kgunn> that's why hwc is attempted to be used....but can result in the "overlay stack" being sent back to the gpu
[14:16] <kgunn> in order to get composed
[14:17] <alf__> kgunn: sure, I am just not sure if the particular OverlayRenderer we are talking about was meant for this, or the term "overlay" was used in the more general sense.
[14:18] <kgunn> alf__: right...i'm tracking, may or may not have been intended for this
[14:18]  * alan_g sees that he's right: in lp:~robertcarr/mir/demo-software-cursor-junk SoftwareCursorOverlayRenderer just uses the DisplayBuffer to get the size of the view area.
[14:22] <alan_g> kgunn: alf__ : as far as trunk goes OverlayRenderer is pointless.  FWIW SoftwareCursorOverlayRenderer doesn't use hwc.
[14:23] <kgunn> alan_g: right...i would think so too because of the name "sw cursor"
[14:23] <kgunn> whereas a "hw cursor" might try to get an overlay
[14:26] <alan_g> The implication being that OverlayRenderer is not intended for hardware overlays.  Anyway, I feel confident I can make my changes and we can figure out if there is anything we need OverlayRenderer for later.
[14:29] <kgunn> alan_g: sure...still a qood ques for racarr later
[14:53] <kgunn> hikiko: ping
[14:57] <kdub> good morning, status, updating my android builds, working on getting glmark to run on mir under android drivers
[15:06] <kdub> if we wanted to add some graphics performance benchmarks that are runnable on both mir and say... surfaceflinger, seems benchmarks/graphics would be a good place for that
[15:06] <kdub> but we might have to put an Android.mk makefile in there...
[15:08] <kgunn> kdub: +1
[15:08] <kgunn> oem's will like that
[15:09] <kdub> yeah, not super pumped about the Android.mk in there  though... the other option is to have a separate project
[15:10] <kgunn> right....but seems overkill
[15:10] <kgunn> ah...maybe a seperate proj is the right thing tho
[15:10] <kgunn> its for sure the most sanitary
[15:12] <kdub> i somewhat am leaning towards a separate project... that way we can instruct 'download the ndk...' without re-polluting lp:mir with that
[15:13] <kgunn> yeah...let's do that
[15:13] <kgunn> kdub: the main thing is having a nice pointer for the oem's to see
[15:14] <kgunn> & play with
[15:15] <alf__> status: debugging lttng issues (also see: https://bugs.lttng.org/issues/538)
[15:16] <alf__> status: ... and trying to make our lttng reporting work despite those issues
[15:16] <alan_g> status: refactoring code that's in the way of composition bypass.
[15:16] <alf__> alan_g: s/refactoring/deleting/ ;) ?
[15:16] <kdub> alan_g, anything i can help with?
[15:16] <alan_g> alf__: no
[15:17] <alan_g> kdub: not for now - I've the next few steps planned out
[15:18] <alf__> alan_g: too bad, I was in a mood for deletions today :)
[15:18] <kdub> i might have a deletion! :) there's a class i want to get rid of in src/server/graphics/android
[15:19]  * alf__ will be right back
[16:21] <kgunn> alan_g: kdub racarr any of you on saucy?
[16:21] <alan_g> kgunn: not yet
[16:21] <kdub> raring for me
[16:36] <racarr> morning
[16:36] <racarr> lept in a little late because I am always super tired for the 11 pm weekly :p
[16:36] <racarr> still on raring...hould be in saucy probably
[16:36] <alan_g> afternoon
[16:37] <racarr> alan_g: Reading one of your emails. I think SurfaceCreationParameters belongs in shell
[16:37] <racarr> or mf::SurfaceCreationRequest (does not feature a top_left)
[16:37] <racarr> and msh::SurfaceCreationParameters (features a top left)
[16:37] <racarr> placement strategy takes Request->Parameters
[16:37] <alan_g> Make it so Mr Carr
[16:42] <racarr> :)
[16:59] <kgunn> racarr: was chatting with gerry earlier, as to platform-api changes we're "waiting" on
[16:59] <kgunn> is it just these 2?
[16:59] <kgunn> https://code.launchpad.net/~ricmm/platform-api/new_api_with_lifecycle/+merge/160691
[16:59] <kgunn> https://code.launchpad.net/~robertcarr/platform-api/mir-client-and-server/+merge/163616
[17:10] <racarr> kgunn: Yes. I am syncing up with ricmm today
[17:10] <racarr> at 1:30 to figure out how to land them
[17:11] <kgunn> racarr: great! let me know if you need review "volunteers" (mmwwhaahaha)
[17:12] <racarr> :) Thanks. I think it's mostly just a matter of everything lining up right
[17:12] <racarr> i.e. to land my changes we need to introduce some more modularity
[17:12] <racarr> so it's possible to have say, mirclient for implementing ubuntu_application_ui_*
[17:12] <racarr> but still get at the GPS via hybris
[17:12] <kgunn> right
[17:12] <racarr> and I think some of riccm's refactoring involves this
[17:13] <racarr> god the amount of time I spend renaming classes...
[17:14] <racarr> why can't clang do this yet
[17:17] <racarr> moved surface creation parameters to shell in enable-surface-placement
[17:19] <kdub> racarr, yeah.. seems something automagical should exist for renaming classes
[17:19] <racarr> Sometimes deep in the caves of refactoring
[17:19] <racarr> I wonder if it is worth righting a tool that does common tasks, even if say it only worked on our code tree haha
[17:20] <racarr> then I tell myself if it were someone would have already done it and to focus
[17:20] <racarr> then I look at pictures of cats on the internet.
[17:20] <racarr> writing a tool*
[17:24] <kdub> we should probably have a FindMirClient.cmake module...
[17:27] <kgunn> racarr: cracking me up
[17:47] <racarr> about...30% through getting rid of setInputWindows and having the dispatcher controller use the surface model directly
[17:48] <racarr> has the nice side effect of enabling input for more than one urface at a time
[18:40] <racarr> out for 20 minute to take a walk, back soon
[19:23] <kdub> kgunn, have some numbers for startup cost on the meeting doc
[19:24]  * kgunn scurries away to read
[19:26] <kgunn> kdub: well that's interesting, altho double, the value is so small...it shouldn't bother us
[19:26] <kdub> yeah, thats what i thought too...
[19:27] <kdub> the cost is probably that we fire off more threads
[19:27] <kgunn> kdub: its kind of just on the edge of nuisance
[19:27] <racarr> the most interesting cost-effect for startup time is probably
[19:27] <racarr> recovering when mir crashes
[19:27] <racarr> on boot we are drowned in a giant mess of things that take forever to start
[19:27] <racarr> and I doubt we really show up as a blip
[19:27] <kgunn> racarr: even on phone?
[19:28] <kgunn> also....this should be new client, post startup
[19:28] <racarr> I dunno
[19:28] <racarr> on the desktop qml-phone-shell for example noticeably takes a second or so to load
[19:28] <racarr> after the hardware cursor appears
[19:29] <racarr> we dont do much disk IO is the thing
[19:29] <racarr> we do start a lot of threads though XD
[19:52] <kdub> well, firing up qml-phone-shell is more akin to starting a Launcher.apk than it is to starting /system/bin/surfaceflinger
[19:54] <kgunn> kdub: and i think racarr is talking about system start...not client start
[19:54] <kgunn> altho i might be wrong
[20:07] <thomi> morning all
[20:07] <thomi> I see nobody was brave enough to reply to my email on mir-devel?
[20:07] <kgunn> thomi: alf did actually
[20:07] <kgunn> ( i thot)
[20:08] <thomi> hmmmm, maybe my mail client is bring dumb then
[20:08]  * thomi restarts thunderbird
[20:08] <kgunn> thomi: answer was...yes, it should be thread safe
[20:08] <kgunn> and he was able to repro
[20:09] <kgunn> so...hooray....plan worked! we found a bug
[20:09] <kgunn> we = you :)
[20:09] <kgunn> so thank you
[20:09] <thomi> he == ?
[20:11] <thomi> kgunn: ^
[20:12] <kgunn> thomi: he == alf
[20:12] <thomi> ahhh
[20:12] <kgunn> thomi: i spoke with him earlier...he said not as frequent, but definitely seeing race cond of some sort
[20:12] <thomi> kgunn: it could be because I have a pretty beefy laptop perhaps.
[20:13] <kgunn> thomi: yep
[20:13] <thomi> kgunn: any idea when a fix is in the works? I'm wondering if it's worth postponing further development on mir-stress until this first issue is fixed
[20:13] <thomi> since I can't really exercise the mir erndering stuff until I can reliably connect...
[20:14] <kgunn> thomi: if he shows to the team meeting you might ask him
[20:14] <kgunn> otherwise i'll ping him in the morning
[20:14] <thomi> good point
[20:15] <kgunn> thomi: btw, are you on saucy or raring
[20:15] <thomi> kgunn: both :)
[20:15] <thomi> kgunn: my main laptop is on raring, I have a test laptop that's running saucy + mit-team staging PPA
[20:16] <thomi> since the PPA sometimes breaks the desktop
[20:16] <kgunn> thomi: yeah, i was curious....how is the saucy + mir ?
[20:16] <thomi> kgunn: seems fine to me
[20:17] <kgunn> thomi: cool
[20:17] <thomi> kgunn: it builds fine, tests all pass
[20:17] <thomi> we need to get to the point where it's easy to start unity8 + mir though
[20:18] <kgunn> yeah, hopefully racarr can push some key platform-api changes through...then he & gerry can create their unity-mir project
[20:46] <racarr> Lunnnch!
[20:59] <thomi> brrrreakfast!
[21:27] <racarr> and back
[23:14] <racarr> Effective C++ said to provide raw access functions in your resource management classes so there can't be an ything dangerous about adding a .get()/.surface() to msh::Surface right? ;)
[23:16] <kdub> better cast to void and XOR it with a known constant first :P
[23:16] <kdub> just kidding :)
[23:30] <racarr> error: ‘void {anonymous}::FocusNotifyingInputTargeter::focus_changed(const std::shared_ptr<mir::input::SurfaceTarget>&)’ marked override, but does not override
[23:30] <racarr> god I love that kekyword
[23:30] <racarr> keyword*


[00:16] <mup> Bug #1731075 opened: [2.3, HWTv2] Rogue test results when machine fails to commission for the first time <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731075>
[01:55] <shadoxx> Narrowed it down. I can't get the cloud-init to succeed. The MaaS boot keeps saying No datasource found
[07:44] <mup> Bug #1731162 opened: Unable to deploy Artful on maas 2.2.1 <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731162>
[07:53] <mup> Bug #1731162 changed: Unable to deploy Artful on maas 2.2.1 <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731162>
[07:59] <mup> Bug #1731162 opened: Unable to deploy Artful on maas 2.2.1 <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731162>
[09:56] <mup> Bug #1731188 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] When a test has failed the expanded panel should have information about the failure (instead of metric info) <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731188>
[09:56] <mup> Bug #1731191 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] The padding of the icons in hardware testing is not right <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731191>
[10:05] <mup> Bug #1731188 changed: [2.3rc2, UI] When a test has failed the expanded panel should have information about the failure (instead of metric info) <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731188>
[10:05] <mup> Bug #1731191 changed: [2.3rc2, UI] The padding of the icons in hardware testing is not right <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731191>
[10:08] <mup> Bug #1731188 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] When a test has failed the expanded panel should have information about the failure (instead of metric info) <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731188>
[10:08] <mup> Bug #1731191 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] The padding of the icons in hardware testing is not right <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731191>
[10:38] <mup> Bug #1731206 opened: [2.3rc2]  The hardware tests list doesn't update without a refresh when running tests again <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731206>
[10:46] <kukacz> hi, can a storage layout be applied on a "Ready" machine without re-running commissioning?
[11:00] <kukacz> forgot to say I'm thinking of CLI
[11:00] <kukacz> just found it: maas ${PROFILE} machine set-storage-layout ${SYSTEM_ID} storage_layout=lvm
[11:00] <kukacz> solved
[11:08] <mup> Bug #1731210 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] The padding of the metrics/ error text in the expanded hardware testing row is smaller than guidelines <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New for deadlight> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731210>
[11:11] <mup> Bug #1731214 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] Consider removing the day from the standard date format <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731214>
[11:26] <mup> Bug #1731214 changed: [2.3rc2, UI] Consider removing the day from the standard date format <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731214>
[11:38] <mup> Bug #1731214 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] Consider removing the day from the standard date format <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731214>
[11:56] <mup> Bug #1731243 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] I clicked map subnet (while Network discovery was disabled) and I didn't get a warning or information message <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731243>
[11:56] <mup> Bug #1731244 opened: - [ ] [2.3rc2] Subnet details; the Save button doesn't save my changes or change the state of the section from Edit mode to Read mode <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731244>
[12:08] <mup> Bug #1731243 changed: [2.3rc2, UI] I clicked map subnet (while Network discovery was disabled) and I didn't get a warning or information message <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731243>
[12:08] <mup> Bug #1731244 changed: - [ ] [2.3rc2] Subnet details; the Save button doesn't save my changes or change the state of the section from Edit mode to Read mode <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731244>
[12:11] <mup> Bug #1731243 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] I clicked map subnet (while Network discovery was disabled) and I didn't get a warning or information message <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731243>
[12:11] <mup> Bug #1731244 opened: - [ ] [2.3rc2] Subnet details; the Save button doesn't save my changes or change the state of the section from Edit mode to Read mode <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731244>
[13:42] <mup> Bug #1731162 changed: Unable to deploy Artful on maas 2.2.1 <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731162>
[13:45] <mup> Bug #1731162 opened: Unable to deploy Artful on maas 2.2.1 <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731162>
[13:51] <mup> Bug #1731162 changed: Unable to deploy Artful on maas 2.2.1 <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731162>
[14:48] <mup> Bug #1731243 changed: [2.3rc2, UI] I clicked map subnet doesn't work (while Network discovery was disabled) <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731243>
[14:48] <mup> Bug #1731244 changed: [2.3rc2] Save button doesn't work in Subnet Details page. <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731244>
[14:51] <mup> Bug #1731243 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] I clicked map subnet doesn't work (while Network discovery was disabled) <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731243>
[14:51] <mup> Bug #1731244 opened: [2.3rc2] Save button doesn't work in Subnet Details page. <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731244>
[15:12] <mup> Bug # changed: 1722903, 1727548, 1731243, 1731244
[15:12] <mup> Bug #1731284 opened: [2.x, UI] Subnet details page takes a long too lon when multiple IP addressed (observed) <performance> <ui> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731284>
[15:57] <mup> Bug #1731292 opened: [2.3, UI, regression] Hardware testing / commissioning table doesn't fit in a small screen but there's a lot of whitespace <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731292>
[15:57] <mup> Bug #1731293 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] Previous results should be sorted by most recent first <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731293>
[16:06] <mup> Bug #1731292 changed: [2.3, UI, regression] Hardware testing / commissioning table doesn't fit in a small screen but there's a lot of whitespace <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731292>
[16:06] <mup> Bug #1731293 changed: [2.3rc2, UI] Previous results should be sorted by most recent first <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731293>
[16:12] <mup> Bug #1731292 opened: [2.3, UI, regression] Hardware testing / commissioning table doesn't fit in a small screen but there's a lot of whitespace <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731292>
[16:12] <mup> Bug #1731293 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] Previous results should be sorted by most recent first <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731293>
[16:27] <mup> Bug #1731298 opened: [2.3rc2, UI] When I see the log of a test and I click on Back to machine details, back doesn't take me to the tab I came from <2.3qa> <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731298>
[23:00] <mup> Bug #1731350 opened: [2.3, HWTv2, UI] Aborting commissioning (+ testing) of a machine never commissioned before, leaves 'pending' icons in the UI <MAAS:Triaged by ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731350>
[23:10] <mup> Bug #1731353 opened: [2.3, HWTv2] Re-running commissioning + testing of a NEW machine that was previously manually aborted results on tests not run <MAAS:Triaged by ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731353>
[23:22] <mup> Bug #1731353 changed: [2.3, HWTv2] Re-running commissioning + testing of a NEW machine that was previously manually aborted results on tests not run <MAAS:Triaged by ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731353>
[23:31] <mup> Bug #1731353 opened: [2.3, HWTv2] Re-running commissioning + testing of a NEW machine that was previously manually aborted results on tests not run <MAAS:Triaged by ltrager> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731353>


 It seems flavors are doing blog posts to let people know that 19.04 is reaching end of life.
[20:06] <RikMills> yes. I thought this yesterday that we should
 Y a
 Yea
[21:12] <mparillo> https://kubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=4306&action=edit
[21:18] <mparillo> Could somebody review and post, please.
[22:27] <valorie> on it, mparillo
[22:31] <valorie> and published
[22:31] <valorie> thanks so much
[23:04] <keithzg[m]> "Users of 19.04 can follow the Kubuntu 18.10 to 19.04 Upgrade [2] instructions." well the instructions linked to seem to be right, but!
[23:24] <mparillo> Great eyes. Can you refresh?
[23:28] <keithzg[m]> mparillo: Looks good now :)
[23:32] <mparillo> Thanks to you, hawkeye.
[23:33] <keithzg[m]> Puttin' my English minor to work! ;)
[23:34] <valorie> lol
[23:35] <valorie> sorry for not catching that


[23:35] <wgrant> cjohnston: Do you want me to have a look at the queries in your publisher branch?
[23:35] <wgrant> Bah
[23:35] <wgrant> cjwatson: ^^
[23:36] <cjwatson> wgrant: Oh, if you can, yes please.  I'm not going to have time before tomorrow morning, and possibly not tomorrow in general as I'm on landing team duty.
[23:37] <wgrant> doing
[23:37] <cjwatson> wgrant: I did wonder whether it would be better to just leave the release-pocket-updates checks out of the query and just exclude those after the fact
[23:37] <cjwatson> Since hopefully they're fairly uncommon
[23:38] <wgrant> cjwatson: Not just fairly uncommon, but probably something that should be noticed.
[23:39] <cjwatson> (Do you use EXPLAIN ANALYSE for this kind of thing?)
[23:39] <wgrant> Z, but yes
[23:39] <cjwatson> ANALYZE, sorry.  Bah, Americans
[23:39] <wgrant> Well, EXPLAIN (ANALYZE ON, BUFFERS ON) nowadays.
[23:40] <wgrant> BUFFERS tells you exactly how many pages are read, so you can see if it's just working because of hot caches etc.
[23:40] <cjwatson> Oh, nice


[09:35] <pef> hello
[09:39] <\sh> morning pef
[10:14] <pef> JRe: hi ;)
[10:15] <JRe> pef: hi :)
[10:15] <JRe> pef: how are you?
[10:17] <pef> JRe: fine and you ?
[10:17] <JRe> pef: fine too ;)
[10:17] <JRe> pef: i am packaging kat0.6.0beta1
[10:17] <JRe> ;) ;) ;)
[10:20] <pef> JRe: no longer libxrender.la issue ?
[10:20] <JRe> pef: kat is not katapult
[10:21] <pef> I have a problem I don't know how to handle :/
[10:22] <pef> I'm packaging k9copy, which needs a specific vamps version provided by the author of k9copy
[10:22] <JRe> what is a vamps ?
[10:23] <pef> a command line tools to work on mpeg strams
[10:24] <JRe> ok
[10:24] <JRe> so you have to first package the command line tool
[10:24] <JRe> and after k9copy, is it that?
[10:25] <pef> wrong way :)
[10:25] <pef> k9copy needs the modified version of vamps
[10:25] <\sh> xrender issues should be fixed
[10:25] <\sh> xbase-clients is next ,-)
[11:11] <pef> Riddell: ping
[11:11] <Riddell> pef: hi
[11:11] <pef> Riddell: hi :)
[11:12] <pef> Riddell: building kdepim stops with /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXfixes, maybe missing dependency ?
[11:13] <pef> Riddell: #12799, if you can have a look ;)
[11:17] <\sh> Riddell: did u say yesterday, everything what is not build-depending on kdebase can be compiled?
[11:20] <Riddell> \sh: actually first thing is to sort out amd64
[11:20] <Riddell> anyone got an amd64 going spare :)
[11:21] <\sh> Riddell: mithrandir has ravel ,-)
[11:21] <\sh> is amd buildd working again???
[11:22] <\sh> woot...it's alive
[11:22] <Riddell> it's alive and arts hasn't built :(
[11:23] <\sh> ay
[11:24] <\sh> libXrender.la
[11:24] <Riddell> which means qt probably needs stricter build-deps somewhere
[11:25] <\sh> lemme check
[11:28] <\sh> ok..tightend the build-deps for xrender and xcursor
[11:30] <\sh> but he pulls in Setting up libxrender-dev (0.9.0-1) ...
[11:30] <\sh> Setting up libxcursor-dev (1.1.4-0ubuntu3) ...
[11:30] <\sh> in the amd64 buildd...hmmm
[11:31] <\sh> and this is correct from the build-deps u gave for arts
[11:32] <Riddell> are those the latest versions of libxrender and libxcursor?
[11:32] <\sh> yes..but xorg is quite -36
[11:32] <\sh> s/quite/still/
[11:33] <Riddell> xcursor (1.1.4-0ubuntu4) * Make the xrender build-dep versioned, to rid us of libXrender.la.
[11:34] <\sh> hmm...so it wasn't in the archive
[11:34] <\sh> so kicxcursor_1.1.4-0ubuntu4_20050719-0615-amd64-successful.gz
[11:34] <\sh> there it is
[11:35] <\sh> another kick should be ok...
[11:36] <\sh> and the time fits ,-) arts was ready before xcursor
[11:55] <pef> Riddell: needs to add libxfixes-dev to kdepim build-depends, no ?
[12:01] <Riddell> pef: looks like it, will do that too
[12:04] <pef> Riddell: should I fill a bug on malone ?
[12:06] <Riddell> pef: bugzilla I think if you want
[12:06] <pef> Riddell: when should I use malone or bugzilla ?
[12:06] <JRe> pef: good question :)
[12:07] <pef> JRe: ;)
[12:08] <Riddell> pef: malone for universe, bugzilla for main
[12:08] <Riddell> as far as I know anyway
[12:08] <pef> thanks :)
[01:14] <\sh> Riddell: I think we kick back arts to the amd64 buildd
[01:14] <Mez> hmmles
[01:15] <\sh> looks like it was compiled at the wrong time
[01:15] <Mez> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[01:15] <Mez>   xbase-clients: Depends: xdpyinfo but it is not installable
[01:15] <Mez> Package xdpyinfo is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[01:15] <Mez> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[01:15] <Mez> is only available from another source
[01:15] <Mez> E: Package xdpyinfo has no installation candidate
[01:16] <\sh> mez: at least u hit breezy xorg break
[01:16] <\sh> come in and sit down :)
[01:16] <Mez> ah
[01:16] <Mez> so when's the planned fix/
[01:16] <Riddell> \sh: yeah, I'm playing with some other qt patches but I'll upload it soon
[01:16] <Mez> cause I'm trying to fix kdepim
[01:17] <\sh> Riddell: lamont can kick them back...no upload needed
[01:17] <\sh> actually we need a complete rebuild of everything ,-)
[01:17] <\sh> to see what is breaking
[01:17] <Riddell> I should add tighter dependencies on qt I think
[01:17] <\sh> .oO(after daniels is send back by god and give us a real Xorg to work with)
[01:18] <Mez> so... er...
[01:18] <Mez> why is xorg broken?
[01:19] <Riddell> Mez: daniels stopped xbase-clients from compiling temporarily
[01:19] <Riddell> so it's just an empty package
[01:19] <Mez> whyyyy .?
[01:21] <Riddell> dunno, it's a temporary step until all the xbase-clients are split into their own packages
[01:21] <\sh> questions over questions...please switch on your irssi next week to see how Mez bashed his head ,-)
[01:38] <\sh> mez: problem is really: we have to w8 for daniels...really..I can't type any umlauts, at signs, can't use my alt-gr and some other keys...
[01:39] <\sh> right now i'm feeling just like sitting in a timemachine back to 1994
[01:43] <pef> \sh: problem with dead keys ?
[01:50] <pef> \sh: same problem with french accents, please have a look at bugzilla #12799
[01:51] <JRe> \sh: lol
[01:57] <Mez> yeah - I just saw tha pef
[02:00] <\sh> pef: I'm w8ing :)
[02:03] <JRe> ^a
[02:04] <\sh> nodeadkeys? ,-)
[02:04] <\sh> but I'm talking about serious problems like alt-gr+q for an at sign
[02:04] <\sh> or ctrl+alt+f1 for switching to console
[02:14] <pef> \sh: xbk issue, no ?
[02:14] <\sh> pef: yes.
[02:14] <pef> \sh: have you xkb related errors in xorg.log ?
[02:15] <\sh> pef: back to plain xkb ... no german layout bla
[02:15] <\sh> anyways..I
[02:15] <\sh> 'm waiting for daniels fix...
[02:15] <pef> \sh: same problem, have you tried to install xkeyboard-config ?
[02:15] <pef> I _had_ the same problem :)
[02:16] <\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~$ sudo apt-get -s install xkeyboard-config
[02:17] <\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~$ sudo apt-get -s install xkeyboard-config
[02:17] <\sh> The following packages will be REMOVED: akregator amarok amarok-arts amarok-engines amarok-gstreamer amarok-xine ark artsbuilder dcoprss gdm gksu gnome-applets gnome-applets-data gnome-control-center gnome-netstatus-applet gnome-panel
[02:17] <\sh> and this is only one line of packages
[02:18] <\sh> The following packages will be upgraded: xkeyboard-config
[02:18] <\sh> funny
[02:18] <pef> \sh: rdepends on this package returns me only 4 packages, strange...
[02:20] <\sh> for me as well
[02:20] <\sh> 3
[02:20] <\sh> Reverse Depends: edubuntu-desktop xserver-xorg-core ubuntu-desktop
[02:20] <\sh> anyways...lets try :)
[02:21] <\sh> I have some time *adventure
[02:21] <\sh> if I'm not responding anymore...then I have a problem :)
[02:22] <pef> \sh: don't forget your irssi copy :)
[02:22] <\sh> i think my memory will be removed as well
[02:23] <pef> it took me a moment with xlibs debs to get my x working again :/
[02:26] <pef> have to go out
[02:31] <Riddell> community council in a bit, anything we need brought up?
[02:32] <\sh> grmp
[02:32] <\sh> when is CC?
[02:32] <Riddell> "fix X" doesn't count :)
[02:32] <Riddell> 1.5 hours
[02:32] <\sh> 14:UTC?
[02:32] <\sh> actually I broke my X again ,9
[02:33] <Riddell> 14:00 yes
[02:33] <\sh> does anybody has a xbase-clients -39?
[02:34] <\sh> aeh xlibs
[02:35] <Riddell> bottom of http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~jr/tmp/
[02:36] <\sh> no..i need at least -39
[02:36] <Riddell> why?
[02:36] <\sh> everything else is not compatible with xkeyboard-config
[02:37] <Riddell> oh, dunno.  british keyboards still work
[02:37] <Riddell> well, until I want to write a pound sign
[02:37] <\sh> I can't write a at sign..and this is really important :)
[02:37] <Riddell> you could use british keyboard layout
[02:38] <\sh> right now I fcked everything
[02:38] <\sh> just close again to install hoary ,-)
[02:45] <Mez> Riddell: why is there an ubuntu gnome team, but not an ubuntu KDE team?
[02:48] <Riddell> Mez: because you havn't put your name on https://wiki.ubuntu.com//MOTUKDE ?
[02:49] <Mez> I'm not a MOTU
[02:49] <Mez> and I was on about like - core team
[02:50] <Mez> btu wait  you're the only full upload Kubuntu dev arent you?
[02:50] <insanekane> hello all
[02:50] <insanekane> Riddell: any progress on using Qt-embedded in the installer ?
[02:51] <Riddell> insanekane: debian-installer is text only
[02:51] <insanekane> hmm ... amu said there was going to be some effort in the direction of a GUI installer
[02:52] <\sh> ok...reinstall time *grmpf
[02:52] <Riddell> not sure the progress on that, ubuntu-express is in the archives
[02:53] <\sh> brb
[02:57] <insanekane> hmm its quite funny ... ubuntu-express
[02:57] <insanekane> anyway
[02:58] <insanekane> Riddell: im making some wizards to go with the media:/ renaming script ... hope to submit it soon
[02:58] <insanekane> until then ... ciao
[02:58] <Riddell> insanekane: media renaming script?
[02:59] <insanekane> yeah ..
[02:59] <Riddell> insanekane: what does that do?
[02:59] <insanekane> dunno if you have followed the discussion on the devel mailing list
[02:59] <Riddell> which devel mailing list?
[02:59] <insanekane> gives sane names to the devices in media:/ ioslave
[02:59] <insanekane> kubuntu-devel
[02:59] <insanekane> sane names = Windows A1, Linux B2 etc
[03:00] <JRe> insanekane: it would be nice to contact kevin ottens for that!
[03:00] <JRe> insanekane: it's him who has developped the media kioslave
[03:00] <insanekane> JRe: for what ? Qt-embedded in the installer ?
[03:00] <JRe> insanekane: for media names
[03:00] <insanekane> JRe: well, i have talked to the person who developed it (didn't know his name) on #kde-devel ... but he is not interested in such things i believe ... atleast not now
[03:01] <JRe> insanekane: ervin ?
[03:01] <insanekane> yeahthats him
[03:01] <insanekane> erwin i think
[03:01] <JRe> ok
[03:03] <JRe> insanekane: if ervin told you that he would make something don't worry! but to be sure of the state of his work, you should post a bug report on http://nugs.kde.org
[03:03] <JRe> s/nugs/bugs/
[03:04] <JRe> insanekane: i know that ATM is heavily working on system:/
[03:10] <insanekane> hmm ..
[03:10] <insanekane> so am i
[03:11] <insanekane> JRe: he didnt say he would make something ... but he said it was out of the scope of media:/
[03:12] <JRe> insanekane: ok! so it's because of HAL ?
[03:12] <insanekane> JRe: anyway, i am making only some simple pyqt wizards for new internet connection, media:/ renaming, K-Menu complexizer, etc
[03:12] <insanekane> JRe: no, i solved the problem using HAL
[03:13] <insanekane> so, my wizards are for silly things like that ... i will contribute it, but i doubt it will reach the quality expected
[03:13] <insanekane> anyway, i have to go, ciao
[03:13] <JRe>  insanekane: a piu tardi ;)
[03:39] <\sh> back
[03:40] <insanekane> \sh: hello :)
[03:40] <insanekane> \sh: how are you ?
[03:40] <\sh> just reinstalled hoary after destroying breezies X completly
[03:41] <insanekane> hrmm
[03:41] <\sh> doesn't matter
[03:42] <pef> \sh: sh 0 - xorg 1 ;)
[03:42] <\sh> hehe
[03:42] <\sh> no
[03:43] <\sh> \sh 0 - xorg 5
[03:43] <pef> :/
[03:44] <insanekane> Riddell: still no reply from Martin Pitt on the pmount question ... wonder is he is too busy/unavailable for general queries
[03:44] <\sh> no I'm staying with hoary until I see an announcement of daniels *grmpf*
[03:46] <Mez> insanekane, he's just emkailed the dev list about dropping mozilla to universe
[03:46] <insanekane> oho
[03:46] <insanekane> Mez: is that kubuntu-dev ? or ubuntu-dev ?
[03:47] <Mez> ubuntu-devel
[03:47] <insanekane> hmm ... am not subscribed to that ..
[03:47] <Mez> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-July/009107.html
[03:50] <insanekane> Mez: maybe my question was stupid
[03:54] <insanekane> Mez: do you know where hal gets the hard disk information from ?
[03:56] <Mez> no idea
[03:59] <sebas> insanekane: Probably somewhere in /proc/, /proc/scsi/scsi and /proc/ide/hda/model for example.
[04:02] <seth_k> CC meeting starting now
[04:04] <Riddell> insanekane: he does say he's busy, what's the question
[04:04] <Riddell> insanekane: /sys I'd imagine
[04:12] <insanekane> Riddell: the question is ... why the extra security for mounting harddisks ?
[04:13] <insanekane> Riddell: the same security should be applicable to USB pen drives also right ?
[04:17] <insanekane> Riddell: because of this pmount problem, the media:/ ioslave is unable to mount harddisks
[04:22] <insanekane> sebas, Riddell : the properly i am interested in is "volume.partition.msdos_part_table_type" ?
[04:23] <insanekane> Riddell: but it is available only if HAL doesn't drop priveleges ... i wonder why it is a privileged information (and how to change it not to be so)
[04:26] <sebas> insanekane: What's in there?
[04:26] <sebas> We're reading that sort of information directly from /proc in guidance
[04:39] <insanekane> sebas: it returns stuff like 0x83 (== ext3), 0x82 (== swap) for each partition ..
[04:39] <insanekane> bbl
[05:52] <fromoze> Hi, I'd like to make a question I've see many times on #kubuntu-es: Why there's not i18n package for amarok?
[05:54] <Riddell> fromoze: because langpacks and KDE are a bit broken in hoary
[05:54] <fromoze> it'll be on breezy?
[05:55] <Riddell> fromoze: when main packages are uploaded any language files generated get sucked out and into rosetta
[05:55] <Riddell> fromoze: then another script takes the lanuguage packs for ubuntu and puts them in the ubuntu language packages
[05:55] <Riddell> which means KDE ones get a bit lost
[05:55] <fromoze> I see...
[05:55] <Riddell> fromoze: jolly well better be sorted out for breezy
[05:56] <fromoze> Well, thanks, now I can defend the miss package ;)
[05:57] <fromoze> And I'll say people to help in Rosetta...
[06:50] <allee> Riddell: bit OT: your kolab blog confuses me: '..not providing RPMs as their Debian packages could have..'.  Sounds like debs are available but I could not find them :(
[06:51] <Riddell> allee: they provide RPM packages for debian
[06:52] <allee> Riddell: 'k those I used ;)   but it's a mess (almost 1 GB of additional software :(  )
[06:52] <Riddell> yep
[06:52] <allee> but 'everyone' seems to be afraid to debianize them ;)
[06:52] <Riddell> yep
[06:53] <Riddell> because they use their own little file heirarchy
[06:53] <Riddell> and don't use the existing apache or imap server
[06:54] <allee> I hope to find the time to check their install script to get rigt at least of 'standard' pkgs that are not don't need customized config files
[06:54] <allee> s/rigt/rid/
[06:55] <allee> apache and imap are especially problematic.  They need special conf setup to play wel together.  I don't see an
[06:55] <allee> easy way to get this properly into debian pkgs system.
[06:57] <Riddell> just have a Include kolab.conf in httpd.conf ?
[06:59] <allee> I've not look into the config changes yet. After bootstrapping kolab2, find /kolabl -mtime -1 listed more than a dozend of modified config files.
[07:09] <Riddell> well they used the autopkg stuff to avoid caring about anyone's packaging system
[07:09] <Riddell> so it's presumably not designed for it :(
[07:13] <allee> yep.  But no word prominently placed word about security (updates).  That scares me.
[07:13] <Riddell> hmm, yes
[07:14] <allee> Better a bit harder install and instead easy (security) updates ;)
[07:15] <Riddell> well I don't think their installation is any easier than having an apt archive, it's just easier from their view as programmers and packagers
[07:15] <Riddell> commercial software that's the problem, it's designed for their customers not for random debian users
[07:18] <allee> not the software is commercial but the support.  Having huge ammount of software help to sell support ;)
[09:25] <fromoze> Hi, may be I must do it may it's done. Are there any web where're linked kubuntu apps on rosetta?
[09:29] <fromoze> I'll like to help a little more on translations; but I'm going to disappear for some weeks (finally the hollydays are coming). Is Rosetta a good way to do it?
[09:30] <sebas> fromoze: You could better ask the local KDE teams for that, only they if Rosetta is a good point to start *in your language*.
[09:30] <fromoze> Because new people on #kubuntu-es wants to help and I'm thinking to push them to help in translations, but I'd like to know if the rosettas is a good option.
[09:30] <sebas> What's your mother tongue?
[09:30] <fromoze> gallician ;)
[09:31] <fromoze> my second is better: spanish
[09:32] <sebas> Ah, are you already involved with kdehispano.org ?
[09:32] <fromoze> no
[09:33] <sebas> Well, that's a good place to start. The locatlization / translation stuff is done per language.
[09:34] <sebas> On that webpage you can find the people / lists to contact, just say that you'd like to help translating and someone will probably pick you up.
[09:39] <allee> fromoze: a general link for everyone interested in KDE translations: http://i18n.kde.org/teams
[10:03] <fromoze> Excuses, allee and sebas, I'd a phone call. I'll try to get into a localteam, but bettet after hollydays. I was interested on rosetta to push newbies in, but I understand isn't a really good way to help to kubuntu.
[10:05] <sebas> fromoze: Ok, welcome (in advance) to KDE :)
[10:06] <fromoze> sebas: I won't go so far sebas, welcome me better when I show you some translations done ;)
[10:06] <sebas> Ok :)
[10:06] <sebas> You're not visiting aKademy?
[10:07] <fromoze> don't remember me that... I can't :(
[10:08] <sebas> Ah, bummer.
[10:08] <fromoze> I've exams in september, 1,3 and 5
[10:09] <fromoze> Is a really bad luck strike; normally I've exams later. If they started 5 I'll try to be on Malaga for the first days.
[10:10] <fromoze> Is known where is the 2006 akademy? or is biannual?
[10:11] <fromoze> May be is better to try to go to an akademy in a foreinger country and travel a little ;)
[10:16] <fromoze> Pleased to met you, see you later; dinner time :)
[10:16] <sebas> It's annual, bon appetit!


[04:45] <sithfm>  thunderbird?
[08:08] <surfn> hi
[09:01] <surfn> anyone around?
[09:05] <valdur55> hi
[09:05] <surfn> hi valdur55
[09:05] <valdur55> !ask surfn
[09:06] <valdur55> !help | surfn
[09:06] <valdur55> :) What is your problem?
[09:07] <surfn> don't really have one...
[09:07] <surfn> What firewall prog should I use?
[09:07] <surfn> (it's more advice seeking than a problem isn't it)
[09:46] <Mkaysi> !ufw | surfn
[15:47] <joossee> is there a trick to getting the openvpn plugin to 'take' in lubuntu 12? I isntealled it through synaptics but the network manager doesnt see it...
[15:56] <joossee> nm figured it out. needed to add another package for nm
[16:04] <loga> hi there
[16:15] <loga> hello again. I'd like to install lubuntu in an old pc but i have lost of doubts. Navigating through the official webpage hasnt helped cause ive found confusing info and im missing other info too. Can anybody help? thanks
[16:16] <loga> lots* of doubts
[16:19] <loga> nobody?
[16:20] <daker> loga: just ask your question(s)
[16:22] <loga> first of all, im unsure about what installation (desktop or alternate) i should use. My pc has 384 ram, and some pages says it is enough for desktop version and others say it isnt
[16:33] <Karnovo> Hello
[16:33] <Karnovo> Can anyone here help me?
[16:34] <Karnovo> I have a problem with lubuntu
[17:05] <loga> obviously this is not a lubuntu help channel...
[17:05] <loga> bye and thank you for nothing
[17:15] <SkippersBoss> !patience
[18:46] <Ineedhelp_> Hello?
[18:47] <Ineedhelp_> I stuck some fonts in my home/.fonts directory, but Openbox won't display them properly on my windows
[19:04] <joossee> How do I mount an encrypted home directory stored on a USB stick? I've tried the "Access your private information.dekstop" link and the ecryptfs-mount-private from the command line but nothing happens. It is an encrypted home directory that I need to mount from my current machine. Any help greatly appreciated.
[20:00] <subman> How do I install the pae enabled kernel?  I assume that Lubuntu comes with the non-pae kernel?
[20:04] <Unit193> Correct.
[20:05] <Unit193> !info linux-image-generic-pae
[22:16] <john_rambo> lxterminal is not completing commands when tab is pressed. Is this normal?
[22:17] <Unit193> Nope, should do it.  Try double tapping tab.
[22:18] <john_rambo> Unit193: That worked. Thanks


[00:04] <sean> autojack.lock? should that be in the same folder?
[00:06] <krytarik> Should be "~/.config/autojack/autojack.lock"
[00:09] <sean> ok...there's an autojack.json and autojack.lock present.
[00:09] <sean> and lock is empty
[00:25] <sean> wahay- I just tried deleting the lock file then starting jack again from studio controls. It has created a new lock file and a new studio-ciontrols file and has lsuccesfully started jack :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) THANKS THANKS
[00:29] <krytarik> Yeah, I stopped short of mentioning the manual deletion of the lock file as a workaround, because I found it was sufficiently obvious.  But you did find an edge case where the script could be improved! :)
[00:31] <sean> :)
[00:31] <sean> Well..the edge case was me accidentally deleting half the system :)) and then reinstalling it all
[00:33] <sean> Thanks so much again. I'll have to go now - half past midnight in the UK and got to be up early doors for works. Thank you SO much again :)
[00:34] <krytarik> Thanks as well! :)
[01:33] <OvenWerks> Ah he has gone... but it should not be machine dependant... sounds more like two different versions.


[01:11] <diddledan> clocks just changed
[01:11] <diddledan> it's now 2am
[01:11] <penguin42> give me my damn hour back!
[01:11] <daftykins> indeed! happy BST
[01:12] <daftykins> penguin42: ooh i have an update on that banking thing btw
[01:12] <daftykins> turned out the guy used barclays wealth corporate which used this USB PIN entry device to login - and that relied upon 32-bit Firefox ESR so that the credential handling software plugins worked
[01:12] <daftykins> so... legacy fun
[01:13] <penguin42> ewww
[01:13] <daftykins> had to reinstate it once i'd done the RAM and SSD upgrade in the iMac
[01:13] <daftykins> then they gave me some 1984 floppies to recover data from :D
[01:13] <penguin42> 5.25 ?
[01:14] <daftykins> nah 3.5" - i had one drive from 2004 that wasn't reading, but a quick scrub to the heads got it listing files again
[01:14] <penguin42> oh, they can't have been '84 then
[01:14] <daftykins> that's the date stamp on the packet at least
[01:15] <daftykins> still doesn't read everything, but did get a word document recovered of some guys 84 page autobiography
[01:16] <penguin42> 84 is pretty early; I was still using 5.25 at the time and I thought most stuff was;  the Acorn machines started using 3.5 in 87 I think (at least that was the public release)
[01:17] <penguin42> wikipedia says 84 was the date that double sided 3.5 floppy drives first shipped
[01:18] <daftykins> nice :D let's see what it was
[01:18] <daftykins> 170984 in an orange sticker on the front
[01:20] <diddledan> I think we got a 3.5 incher (DD only, not HD-capable) in about 1989 or 1990
[01:20] <penguin42> what format are they in - standard PC  720k ?
[01:21] <diddledan> maybe as early as 1987 but that might be pushing a bit
[01:24] <daftykins> packet claims 2MB ones (so 1.44 of course)
[01:25] <penguin42> now that's really confusing
[01:25] <daftykins> harping on about Sony 2DD
[01:25] <daftykins> oh actually the disks inside are mixed a bit
[01:25] <daftykins> the ones that actually match the packet don't read so well
[01:25] <penguin42> DD is double isn't it rather than high - i.e. 1MB?
[01:27] <penguin42> daftykins: http://www.obsoletemedia.org/3-5-inch-microfloppy-extended-density/3-5-inch-microfloppy-identication-notches/  see the notch position (or absence) on the right hand side between teh 3
[01:27] <diddledan> DD is 720kB and HD is 1.44MB
[01:28] <daftykins> ah yeah so one has none - and the other is like the one in the middle
[01:29] <penguin42> please tell me the oldest one is the DD
[01:29] <daftykins> yip
[01:29] <penguin42> ok, that could have got confusing
[01:29] <daftykins> i didn't at any point look at the size on the disks, just touched files only
[01:29] <daftykins> as those more often than not didn't even work well - dunno if that's down to my drive or not now though
[01:31] <penguin42> daftykins: It's possible they're having problems with single density - I'd have imaged the disk rather than let a normal filesystem at it - I wouldn't want to let it write
[01:31] <penguin42> daftykins: I wonder, also, it's possible they were written ona  Mac given the age, in which case they may be single sided?
[01:31] <daftykins> i figured the write protect tabs would be enough for that
[01:31] <penguin42> yeh probably
[01:32] <daftykins> mmm well the main document seems to have been written by MS Word 2 apparently - though the lady mentioned something about an Olivetti PC and hrmm one other software name
[01:32] <daftykins> yeah 'First Choice' software
[01:33] <diddledan> digital archeology at work
[01:35] <penguin42> hmm, the Amiga and ST was '85 and that was 3.5
[01:35] <daftykins> given the amount of faff i had to do to even get the drive to show up to start with, it won't be coming cheap :)
[08:21] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:26] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[08:27] <zmoylan-pi> plans for today, go to city centre and have a walk around...
[08:28] <brobostigon> o/
[08:28] <brobostigon> maybe sample a beer or two.
[08:32] <zmoylan-pi> teetotaler
[08:33] <brobostigon> ginger beer? :)
[08:33] <zmoylan-pi> still a bit cold for a cold drink
[08:34] <brobostigon> i think the forecast here says about 12c this afternoon, so not too bad i think.
[08:52] <zmoylan-pi> true but if you are out walking for 2-3 hours it can feel colder
[08:53] <brobostigon> very true.
[08:58] <brobostigon> i just noticed something cool in starfinder, in one of the classes as a class bonus, you can have a technological item that stores spells and allows you to cast extra known spells.
[09:09] <zmoylan-pi> a loophole \o/
[09:12] <brobostigon> no loophole, there by good design, :)
[09:18] <knightwise> good morning peeps
[09:19] <knightwise> any of you guys know why Ubuntu runs so sluggishly in a Vm (virtualbox) I'm giving it plenty of ram and resources to play with through
[09:19] <knightwise> thoguh
[09:19] <knightwise> though (srry)
[09:20] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[09:20] <brobostigon> compositing wM? inadequate graphics?
[09:41] <knightwise> morning
[09:41] <knightwise> I think so , I think i also need to install the guest addons and see what that does
[09:41] <knightwise> reminds me to push more ram to the videocard too
[09:42] <brobostigon> ok,
[09:44] <brobostigon> i finally gave my android in starfinder some clothes, so now he isnt walking around questing naked, although he is an android so it doesnt matter too much. :)
[10:03] <knightwise> Yep , that did the trick :)
[10:04] <knightwise> naked androids do seem tempting
[10:04] <brobostigon> :)
[10:04]  * knightwise finally got 2 25 inch screens for my setup
[10:04] <brobostigon> :D
[10:05] <knightwise> Gnome interface on ubuntu takes some getting used to :)
[10:05] <knightwise> still want to treat it like unity because it looks like unity
[10:05] <brobostigon> i was going to ask how close it was to standard gnome-shell, and that answers my question.
[10:07] <knightwise> looks like unity, acts like gnome
[10:07] <knightwise> very confusing
[10:08] <brobostigon> odd, i will see it when i upgrade in about a months time.
[10:12] <knightwise> yeah , the beta is out for the derivatives, right ?
[10:13]  * knightwise things this is because they just haven't quite got it working for ubuntu propper
[10:14] <knightwise> ok , giving it plenty of video ram fixed the issue , vm running smooth now
[10:16] <brobostigon> :)
[13:37] <penguin42> hmm, this sensation is odd....I think I'm actually warm
[14:03] <SuperEngineer> time to change that nappy, penguin42
[14:07] <penguin42> haha, no I turned the radiator down :-)
[14:34] <DJones> Doesanybody have experience of a HP7612 A3 printer/scanner,are they any good, reviews I'm reading are mixed.  I need to get a new printer, A3 printing and duplex needed, would prefer to stick with HP by choice, and the 7612 seems the best option
[15:51] <diddledan> apparently the BBC owns Channel 4 (according to this page): https://archive.org/details/channel4bits&tab=about
[15:51] <diddledan> I've emailed them. no response yet
[15:52] <diddledan> it'ld be nice if they allowed public edits
[15:58] <diddledan> I didn't know that. IDE was just the ISA pumped down a wire. The drive controller was exactly the same as the old separate controller cards running on ISA
[15:58] <diddledan> ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjJUgmn-9Do
[16:00] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I'd heard that before; protocols keep moving around
[20:38] <daftykins> diddledan: one thing i read was that in most cases the cards were just allowing a PATA port to be connected to the system bus (when you found a port on an unrelated device, like a soundcard)


 :D
[12:07] <Kilos> good
[12:07] <Kilos> try wake them up
[12:07] <zaki> now they replied to me this like this. what can i say to them now?
[12:08] <Kilos> no one on fb can ever become an ubuntu member without using irc
[12:08] <zaki> reply: Hi Zaki, unfortunately we don't get enough volunteers to keep the motion. Most of the people do volunteer some time but sooner or later they have to look after they day jobs and due to lack of volunteers this community suffers from frequent halts. However, this is a community effort and isn't owned by anyone. If you are interested in volunteering then we can take you on board.
[12:08] <Kilos> thats a good message from them
[12:09] <zaki> hmm.
[12:09] <zaki> now what to tell them?
[12:09] <Kilos> get pavlushka involved as well then you two can get that loco going again
[12:09] <Kilos> yes , tell them that you would be honoured to help them out
[12:10] <zaki> ok i will tell them.
[12:11] <zaki> but at first you help me
[12:11] <Kilos> ok
[12:12] <Kilos> what can i help you with
[12:12] <zaki> how can i convince him to organize a community meet up for ubuntu users.
[12:13] <zaki> or some campus guys
[12:13] <zaki> tell me some effective way.
[12:14] <zaki> oky i'm figuring it out.
[12:16] <Kilos> first get use of the group
[12:16] <Kilos> dont try run before you can walk
[12:16] <Kilos> get on the board first
[12:16] <Kilos> them make somre friends there
[12:16] <zaki> yap.
[12:17] <Kilos> then orgsanise a get together
[12:17] <Kilos> are you far from pavel?
[12:17] <zaki> yap.. like earth and pluto. :D
[12:18] <Kilos> oh my
[12:18] <Kilos> difficult
[12:18] <Kilos> we in za have the same problem
[12:18] <zaki> but we both are in bangladesh. :)
[12:18] <Kilos> from capetown to pretoria is over 1500 ks
[12:18] <zaki> same here man. :3
[12:18] <Kilos> thats why we all use irc.
[12:19] <zaki> (y)
[12:19] <Kilos> keep in touch and then have get togethers in the different areas and feed back with photos etc on irc
[12:20] <zaki> thats for whom? we or those pakistani?
[12:22] <zaki> by the way, you know, i don't like em much. whatever i will try.
[12:23] <Kilos> pakistan forms groups in their close by areas and you do the same in your area, but all feed back to common irc channels
[12:24] <zaki> hmm.
[12:24] <Kilos> they can even use fb
[12:25] <Kilos> but ultimately irc is the home of all ubuntu business
[12:27] <zaki> yap. thats why, i'm just invited that guy to irc.
[12:27] <Kilos> good
[12:28] <Kilos> i will help where i can and so will pavel
[12:28] <zaki> replied him that, if it is possible, use irc. #ubuntu-pk or #ubuntu-bd :D
[12:28] <Kilos> pavel has found his way into many ubuntu groups so can be a big help
[12:30] <zaki> in our country our ubuntu community is in good form . many active volunteer.
[12:30] <zaki> hmm.
[12:30] <Kilos> yes but they all sit on facebook
[12:31] <zaki> sadly thats right
[12:31] <zaki> but this irc channel has much activity back than. 2013.
[12:32] <zaki> i used to come here some time.
[12:32] <Kilos> thats fine if they only want to be part of that group but useless to get involved in the whole ubuntu community
[12:33] <Kilos> they need to understand that ubuntu isnt only bangladesh, its world wide
[12:34] <zaki> hmm.. :(
[12:34] <Kilos> i have made friends from russia to australia
[12:34] <Kilos> and most places in between
[12:35] <Kilos> and the whole african continent
[12:35] <zaki> yoy are you. :D (y)
[12:35] <zaki> http://forum.linuxdesh.net/
[12:36] <zaki> did you seen this? its our forum. it's a big community effort.
[12:36] <zaki> but sadly last post in there is from 2014. :3
[12:37] <Kilos> i see it yes
[12:37] <Kilos> they need new blood to wake them up
[12:39] <zaki> may be.
[12:39] <Kilos> also ubuntu is getting better all the time so not so much help needed
[12:40] <Kilos> in 2008 many needed help to get going
[12:53] <pavlushka> QA tell zaki I'll be off for 4-5 days, but I'll try to peek in whenever possible, :), Its the Ubuntu-release-party.
[12:53] <QA> pavlushka: Okay, I'll tell zaki on freenode
[12:55] <zaki> hey pavlushka ?
[12:55] <pavlushka> Hello zaki !
[12:56] <zaki> are you going to release party?
[12:56] <pavlushka> zaki: planning to.
[12:56] <zaki> good. i will come too some day. :D
[12:57] <zaki> we will meet than. :D
[12:58] <zaki> Kilos, ?
[12:58] <pavlushka> zaki: sure, I'll be very happy that day, :)
[12:58] <Kilos> yes
[12:58] <zaki> hmm. :)
[12:59] <zaki> pavlushka, did yoy talked with those pakistani?
[12:59] <pavlushka> zaki: tried a bit, ask Kilos !
[12:59] <zaki> hmm said that.
[13:00] <zaki> i talked with one.
[13:00] <pavlushka> with whom?
[13:01] <zaki> https://www.facebook.com/ubuntupakistan/
[13:01] <zaki> admin may be.
[13:02] <pavlushka> admin is Mr. Fouad
[13:03] <zaki> hmm. did you talked with him?
[13:04] <pavlushka> He is a bigshot IT expert, Big Data Expert, ex-Yahoo.
[13:04] <zaki> oh.
[13:05] <pavlushka> So, you can just say hi and expect a reply, :)
[13:05] <zaki> hmm..
[13:05] <pavlushka> but you can try and might got lucky, cant guarantee
[13:06] <zaki> আমিতো পেজ এ মেসেজ দিছিলাম, কাল রাত এ। রিপ্লাই ওঃ দিছে।
[13:06] <pavlushka> congrats!
[13:07] <pavlushka> keep building up that way, thumbs up.
[13:07] <zaki> mr.fouad না কে সেটা তো সিওর না। :D
[13:07] <pavlushka> lol
[13:08] <zaki> ha.
[13:10] <zaki> so waht are you doing right now?
[13:11] <pavlushka> wrapping up to go, check your mail please, :)
[13:12] <zaki> good!
[13:12] <zaki> alone?
[13:13] <pavlushka> work on it, it might help you for #ubuntu-pk
[13:13] <pavlushka> With my mom, :)
[13:15] <zaki> hmm, reading.
[13:16] <pavlushka> bye, gotta go. see ya.
[13:18] <zaki> bye bye.
[16:42] <zaki> hi rakib!
[16:46] <zaki> Kilos, what are you doing man?
[16:47] <Kilos> watching a serial on tv
[16:47] <Kilos> hi msa-rakib
[16:47] <zaki> which one?
[16:47] <Kilos> 7th avenue
[16:47] <zaki> i do like serial. :D
[16:47] <Kilos> local za serial
[16:48] <Kilos> in afrikaans
[16:48] <zaki> oh.
[16:50] <zaki> some time i watch some holywood serial game off throne, blindspot,the vampire diaries,the originals, :D
[16:50] <Kilos> game of thrones was good
[16:51] <Kilos> my sister watches vampire diaries
[16:51] <Kilos> oh and blindspot is great
[16:52] <msa-rakib> hi.....
[16:52] <zaki> i love vampire diaries. :D watching that show since 2012
[16:52] <Kilos> lol
[16:52] <zaki> blind spot is new.
[16:53] <zaki> hello rakib. :)
[16:56] <zaki> msa-rakib, are you from pavluskas area?
[16:57] <msa-rakib> i'm from thakurgaon............
[16:57] <zaki> oh. how is your day?
[16:59] <msa-rakib> not bad.......i'm new in ubuntu & also in irc......
[16:59] <zaki> wb kilos!
[16:59] <Kilos> ty
[16:59] <Kilos> some connection prob here today
[16:59] <zaki> oky.
[16:59] <msa-rakib> pavluskas said me.......for this irc
[16:59] <zaki> how is your bandwidth?
[17:00] <Kilos> msa-rakib feel at home and if you need help just say what the problem is
[17:00] <Kilos> i have to go eat
[17:01] <zaki> go then.
[17:01] <msa-rakib> thanks............bro
[17:01] <zaki> i eated too much. :( now can't walik.
[17:01] <Kilos> lol
[17:01] <zaki> ha ha . :D
[17:04] <zaki> rakib i'm from chittagong. :)
[17:04] <zaki> hey Kilos to day will be the last episode off vampire diaries season 7. :( it make me sad.
[17:08] <zaki> time to go.
[17:09] <zaki> good night  :)
[17:09] <msa-rakib> zaki vai..........what is the best download manager for ubuntu
[17:11] <zaki> hey i'm just back, chenged my mind. :#
[17:13] <msa-rakib_> hello..........
[17:15] <msa-rakib_> এখানে সবাই কি বাংলাদেশী
[17:24] <Kilos> why dont you chat to the new guy
[17:24] <Kilos> make him feel happy to be online


[02:18] <callmepk> good morning
[02:53] <donfede> o/
[05:21] <jibel> Good morning
[05:54] <bittin> good morning
[05:59] <didrocks> good morning
[06:17] <jibel> salut didrocks
[06:17] <jibel> hi bittin
[06:17] <didrocks> hey jibel
[06:19] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:19] <oSoMoN> happy Friday!
[06:19] <ricotz> good morning everyone
[06:20] <oSoMoN> hey ricotz
[06:21] <didrocks> hey oSoMoN
[06:21] <didrocks> morning ricotz
[06:22] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[06:27] <jibel> salut oSoMoN ricotz
[06:30] <callmepk> hi jibel bittin didrocks oSoMoN ricotz
[06:31] <didrocks> hey hey callmepk
[06:35] <jibel> Hi callmepk
[06:48] <ricotz> heya oSoMoN didrocks jibel callmepk
[06:58] <oSoMoN> salut jibel, hey callmepk
[07:46] <seb128> goood morning deskopers
[07:49] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:49] <seb128> didrocks, lut, bon vendredi ! en forme ?
[08:02] <laney> \0\
[08:05] <seb128> hey laney, happy friday! how are you?
[08:07] <ricotz> hello seb128 laney
[08:08] <seb128> hey ricotz, happy friday! how is it going for you?
[08:09] <seb128> ricotz, oh, just saw your libreoffice upload, nice to see that gcc-8 workarounds the armhf issue
[08:09] <laney> hahahaHAHAHAH
[08:09] <laney> next we'll be bundling a snapshot of gcc
[08:10] <seb128> :)
[08:10] <laney> that's not entirely a joke really
[08:10] <bittin> :D
[08:10] <seb128> I'm sure Matthias is going to be pleased with that solution :p
[08:10] <laney> we can't just keep rolling back compilers
[08:10] <laney> because that bug isn't being worked
[08:10] <laney> hoepfully we can sort out some armhf access for ricotz
[08:11] <seb128> right, let's see if we can escalade to foundations to get the gcc issue investigated
[08:11] <seb128> or that
[08:11] <laney> both :p
[08:11] <laney> also hey and happy friday!
[08:12] <ricotz> seb128, thanks, yeah, this is clearly a workaround
[08:13] <ricotz> without a proper way to debug I don't have a better solution :(
[08:14] <seb128> ricotz, do we have a testcase smaller than 'rebuild libreoffice'?
[08:14] <ricotz> what bugs me is that this doesn't happen in debian where the toolchain is kind of identical
[08:15] <ricotz> seb128, a minimized package is possible and you can see the failure in the build log
[08:15] <ricotz> test failures are only fatal on amd64 and arm64
[08:16] <oSoMoN> salut seb128, morning laney
[08:18] <seb128> ricotz, if you could get a smaller testcase I could try to help doing a gcc bisect
[08:18] <ricotz> I assume armhf won't be dropped any time soon, like i386? ;P
[08:18] <laney> 早上好 oSoMoN
[08:18] <seb128> it's just that if the test case is building gcc + libreoffice then it's going to take a day for each iteration
[08:18] <seb128> not likely no
[08:19] <seb128> and even if it was this cycle that's impacting SRU to older releases now
[08:19] <seb128> weird that it doesn't happen in Debian though
[08:20] <seb128> do we have difference of toolchain default flags? maybe we could try to see if one of those creates the issue?
[08:20] <ricotz> that would be a question for do_ko
[08:20] <ricotz> or how different are the armhf builders
[08:21] <sil2100> ricotz, seb128: hey! Sorry for not getting to you yesterday - let's maybe try going the Updates-only binary-copy-from-bileto approach for now
[08:22] <sil2100> But ultimately I'd just love figuring out what is busted in the new gcc-9 version
[08:22] <ricotz> sil2100, hi, the mentioned workaround is using gcc-8 on armhf which would work for hirsute too, if that is acceptable for a SRU
[08:26] <ricotz> sil2100, correct, I would have hoped that there might be a suspicious commit, which targets armhf, in the upstream log of that gcc update
[08:31] <sil2100> hm, I don't know about that, I'm always a bit weary as gcc-8 is in universe
[08:31] <didrocks> seb128: ça va :)
[08:31] <didrocks> hey laney
[08:34] <laney> おはようございます didrocks!
[08:37] <didrocks> laney: pronounce it 'aaaaaaaaaas' :)
[08:38] <laney> :D
[08:41] <GunnarHj> Good morning all!
[08:41] <GunnarHj> Wondering if someone can shed some light on a "missing build on" issue.
[08:41] <GunnarHj> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#ibus-keyman
[08:41] <GunnarHj> Short story:
[08:41] <GunnarHj> - Previous version: "Architecture: any", but s390x failed.
[08:41] <GunnarHj> - Now the maintainer stated all Debian's official archs except for s390x.
[08:41] <GunnarHj> - It complains since riscv64 built successfully previously and is now excluded.
[08:41] <GunnarHj> I can probably fix it by adding riscv64 to the "Architecture:" list (or return to "any").
[08:41] <GunnarHj> But are there other options? Would removing the present riscv64 build from impish help?
[08:44] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey, that would be an option but we are going to want a working desktop on riscv64 maybe at some point if that package is useful I would just ask if Debian would be wanting to add riscv64 archs list
[08:47] <GunnarHj> seb128: I'm sure the latter is an option, and will do so. Just curious about how it works. Would it have possible to add some kind of exception to britney?
[08:47] <GunnarHj> s/have/have been/
[08:48] <seb128> GunnarHj, no, but it would be up to any archive admin to delete the riscv64 binaries from impish (if there is no rdepends blocking removal)
[08:48] <GunnarHj> seb128: I see. Thanks for your advice!
[08:49] <seb128> GunnarHj, I could do that for now if you want to see it unblocked but please still try to get riscv64 added
[08:50] <GunnarHj> seb128: I'll do. The package is team maintained, so I can do a team upload.
[08:57] <laney> jamesh: do you know offhand if xdp_portal_set_wallpaper() works for us?
[08:57] <laney> nautilus has optional support to use it, wondering whether to enable that
[08:57] <laney> would require MIRing libportal ...
[09:05] <jamesh> laney: I'll have a look after the meeting
[09:05] <laney> ack
[09:05] <laney> I think it's alright to keep it off for now, the current way should be OK
[09:06] <jamesh> laney: wouldn't that only make sense for Nautilus running within a sandbox?
[09:07] <laney> It's mainly for that
[09:07] <laney> just that they enabled it by default, so if it works we could build with it too
[09:09] <jamesh> there has definitely been some motion towards using xdg-desktop-portal for unconfined apps, as it provides desktop-neutral APIs
[09:10] <jamesh> e.g. Firefox doing screen sharing on Wayland
[09:11] <jamesh> I'd imagine the xdg-desktop-portal-gtk backend should be fine for our GNOME install
[09:13] <laney> thanks
[09:13] <laney> I'll turn it off for now. If they stop having 'traditional' fallbacks then we'll need to reconsider
[09:14] <jamesh> It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to bring in libportal.  IIRC, most of the xdg-desktop-portal tests aren't built if it isn't available.
[09:18] <laney> we can certainly add build-depends, runtime depends in main would require a MIR
[09:23] <jamesh> I'm pretty sure xdg-desktop-portal's libportal deps don't leak past the tests
[09:36] <jamesh> laney: so thinking more about it, Nautilus's use of libportal probably aligns closer with e.g. Firefox's screen sharing use: they want a cross desktop API to set the wallpaper so that they don't need to support N desktop environments
[09:37] <jamesh> laney: xdg-desktop-portal-gtk should definitely handle our default Ubuntu desktop, so it is probably makes sense to enable the Nautilus code (if it is an optional feature)
[09:40] <laney> jamesh: good point. the fallback code is writing to a GSetting so it is GNOME specific
[09:40] <laney> I'd prefer not to block the update on the MIR but we can file it and then enable once that's all approved
[09:41] <seb128> laney, I can do the MIR paperwork if you wish
[09:41] <jamesh> so if you wanted to run Nautilus on KDE Plasma, it would be able to set the background in the appropriate way via xdg-desktop-portal-kde
[09:41] <laney> seb128: sure
[09:42] <laney> it's the approving side that might take some time though :p not as long as in the past with the #newandimprovedmirteam
[09:44] <jamesh> I wouldn't be surprised to see more apps use libportal as time goes by, so it doesn't seem like wasted effort
[09:44] <laney> indeed
[09:44] <laney> alright we have a plan!
[09:47] <seb128> laney, jamesh, the MIR might get blocked on https://github.com/flatpak/libportal/issues/33 to get resolved
[09:47] <gitlab-bot> flatpak issue 33 in libportal "Is the API/ABI stable?" [Open]
[09:47] <seb128> that's the reason Debian didn't move it out of experimental
[09:49] <jamesh> seb128: ah. I hadn't realised that.
[09:52] <seb128> also no tests which the MIR team isn't going to like
[09:54] <jamesh> seb128: the tests in xdg-desktop-portal are effectively libportal tests too
[09:54] <seb128> jamesh, they are not part of the libportal build though so wouldn't catch a regression in an update
[09:54] <jamesh> any tests in libportal that depended on xdg-desktop-portal would represent a circular dependency
[09:55] <jamesh> I'm not sure what the best option here is
[09:55] <seb128> ok, opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libportal/+bug/1932485
[09:55] <seb128> unsure if we should wait for the API stability question to be resolved before subscribing ubuntu-mir though
[09:55] <seb128> laney, ^ opinion?
[09:58] <seb128> jamesh, xdg-desktop-portal does have its tests set up as an autopkgtest but it doesn't depends on libportal? I'm unsure why the depends is not there, the tests do use libportal
[09:59] <jamesh> seb128: because we configure xdg-desktop-portal to not build with libportal
[09:59] <jamesh> (because it isn't in main)
[09:59] <seb128> ah
[09:59] <seb128> alright, so if it's promoted and we enable the option then the autopkgtest should cover libportal
[09:59] <laney> The -tests package could depend on it; that is in universe
[09:59] <seb128> which would block migration from a buggy package
[10:00] <seb128> the reason is probably that we sync from debian and libportal is not in unstable for the reason mentioned before
[10:00] <laney> if someone wanted to try a build with libportal turned on and check the Depends only ends up on x-d-p-tests, we could do that in experimental
[10:00] <jamesh> presumably we could enable libportal support in xdg-desktop-portal now
[10:00] <seb128> let me try
[10:01] <jamesh> as the test binaries end up in the xdg-desktop-portal-tests package, which is in universe
[10:01] <laney> It's probably OK for those two since they'll be developed closely together anyway
[10:01] <laney> but for random other packages I'd be less confident
[10:01] <laney> (in terms of API)
[10:01] <seb128> anyone upstream we know that we could ping to get a reply to the github issue?
[10:01] <jamesh> and I'd be more confident in main xdg-desktop-portal package if the extra tests are built and run
[10:13] <seb128> bah, so the package has a profile to build with libportal
[10:13] <seb128> $ DEB_BUILD_PROFILES=pkg.libportal.enable dpkg-buildpackage
[10:13] <seb128> xdg-desktop-portal I mean
[10:14] <seb128> but tests seem to hang? or taking ages
[10:15] <seb128> it's blocked on PASS: test-doc-portal 4 /db/create_docs for like 5 minutes now
[10:16] <laney> :(
[10:20] <seb128> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TydQJdBdHy/
[10:20] <seb128> in the journal
[10:20] <seb128> kernel problem?
[10:38] <jamesh> seb128: looks like there's some activity on the libportal bug
[10:39] <seb128> 👍
[11:18] <KGB-0> nautilus pristine-tar 27ec19d Iain Lane nautilus_40.2.orig.tar.xz.delta nautilus_40.2.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for nautilus_40.2.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/eYls
[11:19] <seb128> new nautilus \o/
[11:19] <KGB-0> nautilus upstream/latest ae9da8a Iain Lane * pushed 257 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3a3aU
[11:19] <KGB-0> nautilus upstream/latest 885de25 António Fernandes (5 files in 2 dirs) * uncrustify: Enforce single space after control flow keywords * https://deb.li/rixA
[11:19] <KGB-0> nautilus upstream/latest 3c5c9d4 Dušan Kazik po/sk.po * Update Slovak translation * https://deb.li/3fCmi
[11:19] <KGB-0> nautilus upstream/latest b3d68fb Ondrej Holy data/meson.build * ci: Specify test dependencies to fix pipeline * https://deb.li/M7E0
[11:19] <KGB-0> nautilus upstream/latest cba5bee Ondrej Holy src/gtk/nautilusgtkplacesview.c * gtkplacesview: Update to the latest code * https://deb.li/i41u2
[11:19] <KGB-0> nautilus upstream/latest baf799d Ondrej Holy src/nautilus-file-operations.c * file-operations: Fix crashes when extracting encrypted archives * https://deb.li/77bV
[11:20] <KGB-0> nautilus tags 78aadd8 Iain Lane upstream/40.2 * Upstream version 40.2 * https://deb.li/3FYUg
[11:20] <KGB-0> gtk2 tags e3ec140 Sebastien Bacher ubuntu/2.24.33-2ubuntu1 * gtk+2.0 Debian release 2.24.33-2ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/aC5N
[11:20] <KGB-0> gtk2 ubuntu/master 2d2dc3f Sebastien Bacher * pushed 6 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3u5Fx
[11:20] <KGB-0> gtk2 ubuntu/master 04bf214 Simon McVittie debian/ control control.in * Increase dependency on librsvg2-common from Suggests to Recommends * https://deb.li/3PAnI
[11:20] <KGB-0> gtk2 ubuntu/master c21af4e Simon McVittie debian/rules * d/rules: Build udeb with extra CPPFLAGS * https://deb.li/iUmRD
[11:20] <KGB-0> gtk2 ubuntu/master e51b069 Simon McVittie debian/patches/ series d-i/textlayout-Clamp-width-to-the-value-we-asked-for-as-a-hac.patch * udeb: Clamp text layout width to no more than was requested * https://deb.li/YrW1
[11:20] <KGB-0> gtk2 ubuntu/master 18375f8 Simon McVittie debian/changelog * Release to unstable * https://deb.li/3QNo2
[11:20] <KGB-0> gtk2 ubuntu/master 3407fba Sebastien Bacher debian/ (6 files in 3 dirs) * Merge branch 'debian/master' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/f59y
[11:22] <seb128> oSoMoN, sorry I only saw your ping from yesterday late ... what was the changes in gedit you asked about?
[11:23] <KGB-0> nautilus Iain Lane 244926 * commented merge request !10 * https://deb.li/3k3XM
[11:25] <KGB-0> gnome-shell-extension-gamemode tags 52aab5e Jonathan Carter upstream/5 * https://deb.li/p71R
[11:35] <seb128> oSoMoN, oh, probably require to update libtepl which isn't used anymore now?
[11:35] <seb128> in which case yes we should probably wait for a 41 tarball
[12:32] <oSoMoN> seb128, yes, that was my thinking
[12:33] <seb128> oSoMoN, +1
[12:33] <seb128> I just saw the trello comments
[13:03] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey, would you be interested to do the g-t/vte updates, or at least merge the current debian versions?
[13:07] <GunnarHj> seb128: Sure, I can do it if it can wait until sometimes next week.
[13:07] <seb128> GunnarHj, no hurry, thanks
[14:47] <KGB-2> pygobject tags 82762ee Sebastien Bacher upstream/3.40.1 * Upstream version 3.40.1 * https://deb.li/6I6h
[14:48] <KGB-2> pygobject upstream/latest c56c0ef Sebastien Bacher * pushed 44 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/39IyR
[14:48] <KGB-2> pygobject upstream/latest 1dd6dfd Christoph Reiter tests/test_gtk_template.py * gtk4: Skip template test for now * https://deb.li/3xDcD
[14:48] <KGB-2> pygobject upstream/latest d6e029c Christoph Reiter gi/overrides/Gtk.py tests/test_ossig.py tests/test_overrides_gtk.py * tests: various fixes for gtk4 * https://deb.li/il84z
[14:48] <KGB-2> pygobject upstream/latest 2ab352a Christoph Reiter gi/overrides/Gtk.py tests/test_overrides_gtk.py * Clean up Widget overrides * https://deb.li/iCR
[14:48] <KGB-2> pygobject upstream/latest d1221d0 Christoph Reiter gi/overrides/Gtk.py tests/test_overrides_gtk.py * overrides: Remove various overrides for gtk4 * https://deb.li/3xCMv
[14:49] <KGB-2> pygobject upstream/latest 0453702 Jean Felder gi/overrides/Gtk.py tests/test_overrides_gtk.py * gtk overrides: Make GTK4 widgets iterable * https://deb.li/b7Gz
[14:49] <KGB-2> pygobject pristine-tar 63c3df7 Sebastien Bacher pygobject_3.40.1.orig.tar.xz.delta pygobject_3.40.1.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for pygobject_3.40.1.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/39Yjs


 wxl: If the lxqt-globalkeys code doesn't read XDG variables for us to load in our own config, go shriek at agaida and patch it in globalkeys. If it does, default settings in the normal XDG path
[00:29] <wxl> @tsimonq2: maybe it didn't at the time, but i'm not sure we didn't fix it that way
[00:29] <wxl> ^^ @The_LoudSpeaker that said, hold up a second
[01:41] <tsimonq2> Another nightly kicked off to confirm that we can call i386 officially "dead".
 @tsimonq2 well now that we fixed that CI ssl problem :P
[01:47] <tsimonq2> People on Twitter are freaking out.
 about i386 death?
[01:48] <tsimonq2> I had to clarify that this doesn't mean archive builds will stop.
 them freaking out on Twitter is old news 😛
 people need to read better
[01:48] <tsimonq2> People were thinking their 18.04 i386 machines will be broken.
[01:48] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[01:48] <kc2bez> Squashed some concern on Telegram earlier too.
 well 18.04 still has i386 support
[01:48] <tsimonq2> I kind of lol'ed at https://twitter.com/ontobelli/status/1145811906441035777
 it won't lose it
[01:50] <tsimonq2> Right.
 TH
 TBH*
 Lubuntu works great on some older x64 systems
[01:50] <kc2bez> Should I tell that person on twitter I run Lubuntu on a Ryzen 2700X with 32G of RAM?
 we have some older amd64 systems that can't run standard Ubuntu but run Lubuntu
 Lubuntu now runs those research systems
[01:50] <tsimonq2> Exaaaactly.
 @wxl [<wxl> ^^ @The_LoudSpeaker that said, hold up a second], Sure. I will just make changes @tsimonq2 mentioned and wait. Won't arc diff.
[05:53] <lynorian> is manual partitioning borked on calamares currently?
[06:02] <lynorian> alright apport is borked on the actual calamares installer live environment
[06:08] <lynorian> alright saving this vm to disc
[08:21] <guiverc> lynorian, O
[08:22] <guiverc> sorry ..
[08:23] <guiverc> lynorian, s/ToDesktoaToLeft/ToDesktopToLeft/ in https://manual.lubuntu.me/F/keyboard_shortcuts.html - openbox_keyboard.rst   (I'll have to learn to do this myself)
[08:24] <guiverc> though tasks D17/D18 will cause this item not to work as documented, so it could be changed then maybe..
 @lynorian [<lynorian> is manual partitioning borked on calamares currently?], I am not sure if any of us has tested that since we got the image to install again.
 @guiverc [<guiverc> though tasks D17/D18 will cause this item not to work as documented, s …], Yeah. It will need to be changed. I will do it once we are clear about D18.
[16:10] <lynorian> thanks for the headsup
[16:25] <apt-ghetto> teward: You have read today the messages in the support channel concerning the keyfile?
[16:25] <apt-ghetto> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/07/02/%23lubuntu.html#t10:26
 That guy made a nice solve actually. Has he filled a bug report?
[16:27] <apt-ghetto> I don't know, but I am actually writing one
[16:28] <teward> apt-ghetto: i have now
[16:28] <teward> but as I don't use LUKS I'm not susceptible.  (my disks are actually hardware encrypted by another mechanism)
[16:28] <apt-ghetto> Against which package should I file the report? lubuntu-meta? initramfs-tools?
 you could file it against both and see what sticks.
[16:29] <apt-ghetto> And I check "This is a a security vulnerability"?
[16:29] <teward> does it have a CVE yet?
[16:30] <teward> if not you should mark it Private Security
[16:30] <teward> and probably prod #ubuntu-hardened
[16:30] <apt-ghetto> I didn't make a research
[16:30] <teward> given they stated it here
[16:30] <teward> let me make an inquirty amongst Security
[16:30] <teward> ]standby
[16:30] <apt-ghetto> Thanks
[16:38] <tsimonq2> i386 is gone in the CI
[16:38] <tsimonq2> What I did worked \o/
[16:38] <tsimonq2> apt-ghetto: Nice catch, by the way
[16:39] <apt-ghetto> Which one?
[16:39] <tsimonq2> LUKS
[16:40] <apt-ghetto> Yeah, this might be a real big problem or only a configuration issue
[16:40] <apt-ghetto> I didn't have the time to dig into
[16:41] <apt-ghetto> Maybe TJ- could say more about it
[16:47] <tsimonq2> apt-ghetto: Could you report this upstream too?
[16:47] <tsimonq2> To Calamares.
[16:47] <tsimonq2> They should be aware of it as well.
[16:49] <apt-ghetto> Yes, will do after submitting the launchpad bug
[16:54] <teward> apt-ghetto: so, this is only an issue if you have multiple users on-machine.  remotely you still can't breach it unless you have access to the machine anyways
 I think the OP reported it in cala yesterday.
[16:54] <teward> so the "risk" is lower
 I had trouble following at first but I get it now.
 I think you nailed it teward
 Someone already has machine access at that point.
[16:58] <teward> from a CVSS score perspective, it requires AV:L (local or physical access at least), AC:H (the complexity of the attack is not necessarily "simple" (I'd call it High Complexity)), PR:L (low privs necessary i.e. system access), UI:R (requires user interaction), S:C (it can affect everyone), C:H (high impact on confidentiality), I:H (high integrity impact), A:H (high availability impact)
[16:58] <teward> it comes to 7l.5, which is a higher risk, but exploitability of the risk is very low
[16:58] <teward> (0.8 by NIST standards)
[16:59] <teward> with a temporal score of 6.5, which comes to 7.2 overall, so to be fair, while the risk is 'higher' than some, it requires actual access somehow
[16:59] <teward> either remote access or physical access to the machine
[17:00] <teward> with a user on system (privreq: low, av: local/phsyical)
[17:00] <teward> so I'd say that while this IS a risk as it requires physical or otherwise pre-established access to the machine, THIS specific issue wouldn't go past a Medium in CVE importance
[17:00] <teward> and even then you have to be careful messing with LUKS :P
[17:01] <teward> i'd say this is a problem because of Cala but i can't deduce that specifically
[17:01]  * teward uses hardware level encryption rather than software disk encryption via LUKS
[17:02] <apt-ghetto> My DREAD rating:
[17:02] <apt-ghetto> Damage: HIGH => This attack allows to get the keyfile
[17:02] <apt-ghetto> Reproducibility: HIGH => Works every time with access to the system
[17:02] <apt-ghetto> Exploitability: MEDIUM => You must have access to a shell and the unencrypted device
[17:02] <apt-ghetto> Affected users: MEDIUM => Every user which uses Lubuntu 18.10 or newer in combination with FDE, maybe also other users
[17:02] <tsimonq2> FDE didn't work in 18.10.
[17:02] <tsimonq2> Only 19.04.
[17:02] <apt-ghetto> Discoverability: HIGH because it is logged publicly
[17:02] <tsimonq2> Anyway...
[17:03] <teward> so this is a 19.04+ issue only?
[17:03] <apt-ghetto> With end of support in july, I'd say, yes
 The init image is the issue. The keyfile itslf has the right permissions
 *itself
[17:04] <apt-ghetto> With any exploit in Firefox or Falkon or whatever, you can execute the attack and send the cryptofile to pastebin or something else
[17:05] <tsimonq2> teward: How do you do hardware encryption ooc?
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> teward: How do you do hardware encryption ooc?], +1
 everything that is sensitive sits on an external hardware-encrypted USB drive, it maintains its own crypto keys in its own internal chip storage not accessible outside of the device itself, and when in encrypted state before proper decryption codes are properly entered on the device itself, it is unreadable.
 i don't keep 'sensitive' info on the system itself
 Isn't BIOS password much easier and better? It will ask password on boot after POST. Won't even start any software. I like that.
[17:11] <teward> BIOS password doesn't necessarily provide encryption to the disk
[17:11] <apt-ghetto> @The_Loudspeaker =>  https://bios-pw.org/
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://i.imgur.com/XjMFKFN.jpg I meant setting all these.
 Supervisor, user and hdd. Also enable password on boot.
 @apt-ghetto> @The_Loudspeaker = [<apt-ghetto> @The_Loudspeaker =>  https://bios-pw.org/], What this? Which code is it asking?
 *it is
[17:15] <apt-ghetto> Does this encrypt your data? Does your UEFI has set a default password? Where is the password saved?
[17:16] <apt-ghetto> There are lists of default passwords for quite every BIOS
 @apt-ghetto [<apt-ghetto> Does this encrypt your data? Does your UEFI has set a default passw …], Idk.
 @apt-ghetto [<apt-ghetto> There are lists of default passwords for quite every BIOS], You mean there is a default supervisor password?
[17:19] <apt-ghetto> No, I mean there could be a default password for the version you use, but there might be also a design flaw or vulnerability in your UEFI, which is surely quite complex
 It doesn't encrypt. The passwords are stored on the same place where secure boot keys are stored I guess.
[17:33] <apt-ghetto> The bug report is sent
 I have a friend who likes to take pictures of where we live. Photos that unfortunately do not have the best resolution, because otherwise they could be used for some secondary wallpaper for free. They are here: … https://costadacaparica.wordpress.com/ … I can ask my son to try to take some picture like that in Full HD. But not in 4
[17:36] <lynorian> I am kind of sad that apport is borked
[17:46] <lynorian> in the installer
 @lynorian [<lynorian> I am kind of sad that apport is borked], Hi lynorian, could you please create a phab task or share the link, if there is one?
 I am not sure if it is broken in all ubuntu flavors though
 @lynorian is that the initramfs tools ou're talking about?
 1835095?
[18:34] <lynorian> don't think so
[18:35] <teward> bleh I meant apt-ghetto i can't read
[18:35]  * teward shoots self
[18:35] <teward> someone filed a bug on that sec risk issue
[18:35] <teward> it's being discussed in #ubuntu-hardened
 Yes, that‘s my bug report
[18:37] <teward> @aptghetto OK it seems this is an Lubuntu specific issue if i'm reading hardened right
 No, it should be 1835096
[18:37] <teward> hmm probably invisible
[18:38] <teward> but it LOOKS like this issue was reported in 1835095
[18:38] <teward> private sec would be Sec Team only though
 I think, it is from the original poster
[18:40] <teward> indeed.  came in a little late though if it was
[18:45] <teward> @aptghetto yours was duped to 1835095 :P
[18:45] <teward> @aptghetto it sounds more and more like this is a Calamares issue
[18:45] <teward> at least as I read the discussion in -hardened
[18:46] <wxl> you going to dig farther re: apport @lynorian ?
 I hope it is only a config issue, so that we can rely on FDE
[18:48] <wxl> @tsimonq2: re: teleirc, are images somehow not working on #lubuntu where they are here? i don't see the image that "David Groves" posted that @The_LoudSpeaker replied to
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: re: teleirc, are images somehow not working on #lubuntu where t …], It's not an image. It's his message. He has a system without great specs but lubuntu is very unresponsive he says.
 message copied to IRC manually
[18:51] <wxl> i'm referring to the image
[18:51] <lynorian> wxl I was thinking of trying the main  ubuntu  iso
 there  was no image wxl
 there was a .txt file
 @lynorian [<lynorian> wxl I was thinking of trying the main  ubuntu  iso], Trying Main ubuntu image for?
 @teward001 [there was a .txt file], With his pc specs listed.
[18:52] <wxl>  @David Groves [<reply to image>], The specs are sound. There should be no problem. But wait for sometime. Others might be able to help. wxl: @kc2bez @aptghetto @teward001  ?
[18:52] <lynorian> see if apport works there
 but it was a txt not a file
[18:52] <wxl> that's what i mean
 s/file/image/
 wxl: it was a .txt file attachment
[18:52] <wxl> oh.
[18:52] <wxl> dumb.
 as i said twice now.
 *passes a cup of coffee to wxl to wake him up*
[18:56] <wxl> @lynorian: let me know what you find out
[18:59] <lynorian> wxl for what it is worth at elast apport works on the installed system
[18:59] <lynorian> doesn't work during the installer
[19:00] <wxl> @lynorian: not so good from a testing standpoint. is it installed in the live system?
[19:01] <lynorian> yes it is not recognizing any package as part of ubuntu
[19:02] <wxl> what about `dpkg-reconfigure` or maybe just an uninstall and reinstall?
[19:07] <lynorian> wxl wierd news the main ubuntu desktop doesn't have apport broken
[19:14] <wxl> @lynorian: same verion of apport and the dependencies of apport?
[19:16] <lynorian> yes same version of apport on both
[19:17] <tsimonq2> wxl: tl;dr two Cala CVEs found. See -hardened.
[19:17] <tsimonq2> wxl: FDE with Cala on 19.04 is messed up a bit.
[19:22] <wxl> @lynorian: what about the dependencies?
[19:23] <lynorian> depencies are the same
[19:23] <wxl> @tsimonq2: soooooooooooooo fix CVEs and we're fixed or what?
[19:23] <wxl> @lynorian: same versions though, right?
[19:23] <tsimonq2> wxl: Talking in #cala with [ade]
[19:23] <lynorian> yes
[19:23] <wxl> ok that's weird
[19:23] <wxl> @lynorian: let's check other flavors, please
[19:26] <teward> wxl: FWIW the CVE IDs were just requested from MITRE by me
[19:26] <teward> it'll take a day or more for them to get to it
[19:26] <teward> i know their CVEForm gets a lot of cruft
 glad I got the 2TB ssd now
[19:31] <lynorian> I tried the new daily from today and now reporting bugs on calamares works
[19:32] <lynorian> I am quite confused not sure what changed
[19:34] <teward> gremlins
[19:42] <wxl> weird
[22:55] <teward> tsimonq2: re: cala, CVEs CVE-2019-13178 and CVE-2019-13179
[22:57] <teward> yes we know ubot, these were just issued :p


[08:04] <dholbach> good morning
[17:00] <teward> i assume that the PPU application process is how an upstream software maintainer would gain access to upload their package to Ubuntu?
[17:01] <teward> or rather, upload directly, while their 'access' to upload for Debian is pending