[21:42] <frdmn> can someone help me out with an issue on my 18.04 installation? whenever I try to resolve one of my LAN (.local) hostnames, I get a "Temporary failure in name resolution" error
[21:43] <nisankhindia> @frdmn can you resolve it by using IP address
[21:45] <FortKnight> frdmn: you could just use the "numerical" IP, instead of trying to have perfect forward/reverse  name resolution as that could be rather complex
[21:46] <frdmn> @nisankhindia no, but I think that's because of it's a zeroconf address
[21:47] <frdmn> do I need some kind of client installed to support this?
[21:48] <nisankhindia> @frdmn can you please infrom us about your environment details like server platform , apache , ngnix , DNS , DHCP etc etc
[21:48] <nisankhindia> we dont know anything about your configurations
[21:49] <pinkyboo> last question before I go :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RpyM6qnX56/ these comes when I do " sudo apt update "
[21:51] <nisankhindia> @pinkyboo simply You can ignore them ..
[21:53] <Bashing-om> oijeeboo: That PPA is not supported in 18.04: http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/ubuntu .
[21:54] <Bashing-om> pinkyboo: Sorry oijeeboo - fat finggering .. not paying attention . pinkyboo see above that the PPA is not supported.
[21:55] <pinkyboo> oh still this wine thing! I hate it!
[21:56] <pinkyboo> nisankhindia: helped me to get ride of it but it don't know what that is left there Bashing-om
[21:56] <nisankhindia> @pinkyboo as i see you are curious to know things more , so better take rest and https://doc.lagout.org/operating%20system%20/linux/ view these all so that you can practice things and learn by yourself before goint to commit some works o=with UNIX alike systems
[21:57] <pinkyboo> nisankhindia: I noted that link and will read it everyday! so curious abuout the linux.. thank you for your patient help!
[21:58] <Bashing-om> pinkyboo: Chances are the source is in that 3rd party directory " tail -v -n +1 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* " to know .
[22:00] <pinkyboo> Bashing-om:  I don't know what to do with them or get ride of them. You may have being tired while you try to help me. I can just ignore it as nisankhindia  says as I do not know what to do or even worth to do anything...
[22:02] <nisankhindia> @pinkyboo simply run command sudo add-apt-repository --remove ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa
[22:02] <Bashing-om> pinkyboo: nothing hurt to ignore, as nothing is done - but if ya want to address the situation -- well we can :)
[22:03] <nisankhindia> @pinkyboo you need to remove that PPA use the command ::
[22:03] <nisankhindia> sudo add-apt-repository --remove ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa
[22:04] <pinkyboo> nisankhindia: DONE
[22:04] <pinkyboo> Bashing-om: You see, nisankhindia  just saved an hour of yours :p
[22:04] <Bashing-om> pinkyboo: nisankhindia If ya want to keep wine (updated ) why not ppa-purge instead ?
[22:04] <Bashing-om> !ppa-purge
[22:05] <pinkyboo> Bashing-om: no no. I want Wine go to *ell.. nisankhindia spend 15 minutes with me to get ride of those files/folders left after I uninstall it...
[22:06] <Bashing-om> pinkyboo: :) .. then Yeah .. follow his direction :) me late to the discussion .
[22:06] <nisankhindia> @pinkyboo ignore , answer and suggestion is target oriented , you have removed the pacakage so you dont need the updates , i know that
[22:07] <pinkyboo> Responde of sudo apt update | pastebinit: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Sqvvxs5Yd7/
[22:07] <pinkyboo> nisankhindia:  yes I follow u :p
[22:10] <nisankhindia> and ppa-purge need to be installed before it is used , by default ubuntu do not comes with this package installed
[22:10] <pinkyboo> My fan might use the fan more than Windows OS does when I am on ubuntu cause of these update maybe https://prnt.sc/kv5p8r
[22:11] <pinkyboo> I am not even sure if that is an graphic card update that I should run!
[22:13] <nisankhindia> signing off now
[22:13] <pinkyboo> Good night everyone. Thanks billion times nisankhindia
[22:13] <nisankhindia> time for work now
[22:13] <binaryhermit> that is possible, you could have more cpu load or heat released by the gpu because of either unimplemented or poorly implemented features
[22:14] <pinkyboo> binaryhermit: How would I make sure?
[22:14] <binaryhermit> No clue
[22:14] <pinkyboo> :)
[22:34] <firelegend> Must say
[22:34] <firelegend> After fixing all issuesd
[22:34] <firelegend> ubuntu works splendidly on my laptop
[22:35] <firelegend> I only wonder if I update the kernel, whether modules will be rebuilt with dkms, such as those for graphics drivers and various others
[22:39] <firelegend> Other than that, I installed hundreds of packages
[22:39] <firelegend> for development and many others
[22:40] <firelegend> Anything I could think of, docker, wine, steam(proton), aircrack
[22:40] <firelegend> radare
[22:44] <pragmaticenigma> firelegend: what graphics card?
[22:45] <firelegend> gtx 1050
[22:45] <pragmaticenigma> firelegend: What source did you use for installation?
[22:45] <pragmaticenigma> of the graphics drivers
[22:46] <firelegend> The nvidia ppa and nvidia-390 drivers
[22:46] <pragmaticenigma> firelegend: Do you mean the graphics team ppa?
[22:46] <firelegend> ppa:graphics-drivers
[22:48] <pragmaticenigma> firelegend: I use the same one, haven't experienced any issues with upgrades. So far, it appears on kernel updates trigger a rebuild. and haven't had any issues so far
[22:49] <firelegend> I guess I'll experiment tomorrow
[22:50] <firelegend> How does ubuntu handle
[22:50] <firelegend> multiple gpus?
[22:51] <firelegend> Dedicated and integrated?
[22:52] <firelegend> I did a test and the dedicated one is used, the gtx 1050, the glxgears demo runs at 22k frames
[23:03] <hans_> to whoever thought it was a good idea to make the default behaviour: "hide the grub bootloader menu while waiting for the timeout and give no indication whatsoever as to why bootup is so slow" - that was a bloddy stupid idea. someone should undo that
[23:04] <hans_> (Ubuntu 18.04 does that by default, apparently. 16.04 doesn't)
[23:05] <hans_> (the problem is how /etc/default/grub is set up, at least if using the netinst installer)
[23:05] <pragmaticenigma> what specifically is wrong?
[23:07] <pragmaticenigma> the timeout is set for 10 seconds, the menu is hidden. if you hold shift during boot it overrides the hidden and grub displays
[23:07] <hans_> pragmaticenigma, specifically the netinst installer set up GRUB_TIMEOUT=10  and GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=hidden in /etc/default/grub, those are bad defaults.
[23:08] <FortKnight> of course a end user could simply change them and move on with life
[23:08] <hans_> then people who don't know it's waiting for a timeout wonders why it's so slow at booting up..  the default should be GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=menu - this will show the menu and the counter, and will make it easy to see why the bootup is so slow
[23:10] <hans_> FortKnight, sure, but that doesn't help solve https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1  when people go `windows 10 is much faster at booting up than ~~`
[23:10] <pragmaticenigma> hans_: while apples to oranges... Microsoft Windows wait 5 seconds silently before booting
[23:11] <hans_> pragmaticenigma, no it doesn't
[23:11] <hans_> well, at least windows 7 doesn't do that, idk about win10 really
[23:18] <pragmaticenigma> hans_: I agree though, I never liked that the decision was made to hide grub boot
[23:21] <hans_> i guess the reasoning was "my mom thought the grub boot menu looked scary, so i thought it was a good idea to hide it" .. but does anyone know?
[23:22] <esotericnonsense> hm, is there any reason debootstrap might be ridiculously slow?
[23:22] <jcdutton> What is wrong with hiding grub menu ?  Just press SHIFT during boot and it appears again
[23:23] <hans_> jcdutton, makes it difficult to debug why the bootup is so slow, maybe not for you or me but for most non-tech-savvy users at least
[23:24] <hans_> while the old menu with timeout made it obvious
[23:25] <jcdutton> hans_, with the shift option, you normally also set the menu timeout to 0
[23:25] <hans_> jcdutton, the netinst installer sets it to 10 seconds..
[23:25] <hans_> ( http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic-updates/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso )
[23:28] <hans_> if the default timeout was 0 (or 1? or 2?) seconds, i wouldn't be complaining  tho
[23:33] <Benzelio> Hi. Are there any software like GProFTPD for ubuntu 18.04? I'm looking to run a server on my laptop in order to access it's files from other devices in my studio.
[23:37] <s0x> hey guys, does anyone have experience with socat and named pipes? I'm just playing around with it trying to make use of a remote device (i.e. /dev/urandom). Doing socat PIPE:mypipe SYSTEM:"ssh remote socat - /dev/urandom". Pipe is created but reading the pipe blocks until socat is closed and then printing about 2000 bytes. Seems to me a bit like an buffering issue :-/
[23:40] <hans_> Benzelio, a FTP file server?
[23:42] <hans_> > GPROFTPD is an excellent GUI FTP server for people who want an easy to use and easy to configure FTP server.
[23:43] <hans_> Benzelio, only GUI ftp server i can think of atm is FileZilla, but idk if that's `easy to use` or not.
[23:46] <hans_> Benzelio, probably not supported here but hfs+wine is a very easy to use file server, but it uses http for serving files, not ftp
[23:46] <A|an> Is there no 32 bit Virtualbox package available now?
[23:47] <hans_> Benzelio, ( http://www.rejetto.com/hfs/ )
[23:47] <hans_> A|an, x86?
[23:48] <A|an> Is there any downside to installing a 32 bit Virtualbox deb intended for 17.04, but I'm running 18.04?
[23:48] <A|an> yes
[23:48] <A|an> It's intended for an old Dell laptop, 32 bit
[23:48] <A|an> I'm running Mate on it
[23:49] <hans_> actually seems like 18.04 doesn't have a 32bit virtualbox package - but you *might* be able to run the 17.10 32bit virtualbox, if you're lucky. https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/5.2.18/virtualbox-5.2_5.2.18-124319~Ubuntu~zesty_i386.deb
[23:49] <A|an> I had it installed and I don't know what happened exactly, I think bleachbit whacked it, mistakenly
[23:49] <hans_> bleachbit?
[23:49] <A|an> yes, I suspected that...is it "okay" to run the previous version?
[23:50] <A|an> yes, it's a tool that goes through your system and removes extraneous stuff...
[23:50] <hans_> A|an, if you're lucky, the 17.10 package will work. if not, you'll probably get some `dependency not satisfiable` error during installation
[23:50] <A|an> recovers disc space
[23:50] <hans_> kk
[23:51] <A|an> okay
[23:51] <A|an> thanks
[23:51] <A|an> it's all I can do...it must;ve been *that* version I had installed...
[23:53] <Bashing-om> A|an: xubuntu still maintains a 32 bit install: http://mirror.us.leaseweb.net/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/
[23:53] <A|an> ah! thanks
[23:55] <hans_> if the question is how to install a 32bit ubuntu, the netinstaller (but on old hardware you probably want xubuntu instead of ubuntu anyway) - but the question is how to install a 32bit VirtualBox
[23:55] <folorn> hello folks i had a quick question in regards to is there any way for people who use this distro to get a .deb or from cache dsd 1.7.0?
[23:55] <folorn> and if so how a person go about doing it ...if anybody can help it be huge :)
[23:57] <hans_> dsd?
[23:57] <folorn> yep hans
[23:58] <folorn> digital speech decoder for gqrx
[23:58] <hans_> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=dsd g2g
[23:58] <folorn> g2g is the package ?
[23:58] <kus_ubuntui686> hi guys, df -h shows loop 1 through 6 is 100% use is this normal? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nkZscXN9FJ/
[23:58] <folorn> one sec hans


[00:16] <JontheEchidna> this pisses me off to no end: http://imgur.com/eimg6
[00:16] <JontheEchidna> I created a new image exactly the same size as what I selected from the source image, but gimp #@@!'s it up
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> so, all wiki images replaced except for the maverick-netbook.png/wee variant and the ubiquity images, for which I am downloading the latest CD image
[00:31] <JontheEchidna> k-d-s changing default font in approval queue, going to to gtk2-engines-qtcurve
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> erm, please reject k-d-s. It only affected the General font, and the rest of the non-monowidth fonts are sans serif
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> ScottK, Riddell^
[00:45] <JontheEchidna> gtk2-engines-qtcurve should be good, though
[01:03] <lex79> JontheEchidna: did you change something in gtk2-engines-qtcurve?
[01:03] <JontheEchidna> lex79: patched the kdeglobals
[01:03] <lex79> just curiosity
[01:04] <lex79> oh neat
[01:05] <lex79> if you can also update the bzr branch since we can't sync anymore the package now...
[01:39] <lex79> why kpackagekit checks update weekly and not daily?
[01:40] <lex79> from the kubuntu feedback page
[01:47] <maco> Riddell: i think debfx was just saying that to make qtcurve do the right thing, we set the font in its package instead of using the modifications i did in k-d-s
[01:48] <jjesse-netbook> this is interesting doing a full upgrade with muon and not getting a process indicator, so do i just wait ?
[02:44] <dantti> lex79: does it check at all? afaik there are patches disabling it..
[02:49] <Sput> Riddell: don't worry, I a) know exactly that Gentoo is superior, b) know that I can install a full system within a day with spending like 5 minutes at the computer, and c) know that I save soooo much time because updates don't break and configuration is much more easier because I don't need to use random GUI tools, and d) don't really care what others use, as I'm fully aware of me being a crazy person that's incompatible to binary distros :)
[02:50] <nigelb> lol
[03:02] <Sput> I'm certainly not gonna leave because of some bashing :)
[03:04] <lex79> dantti: kpk here in my installation checks update weekly and it's confirmed by the last comment there: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MaverickMeerkat/RC/Kubuntu/Feedback
[03:07] <dantti> lex79: funny the page says he was using KPackageKit since '06 but I started to write in in 2008 :P
[03:07] <dantti> s/in/it
[03:08] <lex79> that is another comment I think from another user
[03:08] <lex79> there's this patch btw kubuntu_06_no_automatic_updates.diff
[03:09] <dantti> well anyway would be good to see what Riddell thinks about this, since the combo to select the updates interval is hidden by some patch
[03:11] <lex79> the combo to select the updates? it's not hidden here
[03:11] <lex79> http://imagebin.ca/view/cx0Kndw.html
[03:12] <dantti> hmm I think they were hidden :P
[03:13] <lex79> :)
[03:13] <dantti> well the default can be easily changed, but I guess Riddell would be better to answear that
[03:13] <lex79> ok
[03:14] <dantti> I have to go work late night now :( cya
[03:34] <shadeslayer> what? Huh?
[03:34] <shadeslayer> i wasnt working on liblastfm
[03:34] <shadeslayer> IIRC lex79 was
[03:34] <lex79> nope
[03:35] <shadeslayer> i didnt take it up surely
[03:35] <shadeslayer> i have kdelibs merge and another bug to fix first :P
[03:35] <shadeslayer> also, im off to college, its 8 AM already :D
[03:35] <lex79> liblastfm is already uploaded anyway
[03:35] <lex79> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liblastfm/0.4.0~really0.3.3-0ubuntu1
[03:35] <shadeslayer> ok....
[04:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I'm going to reject your k-d-s as requested.
[04:20] <JontheEchidna> Thanks
[04:20] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: You might also look at the amount of hinting.  Ubuntu, IIRC, went with Slight and there was pushback about doing more.
[04:20] <ScottK> No problem.
[04:21] <JontheEchidna> pushback, as in slight being too much?
[04:21] <JontheEchidna> or pushback about the hinting *not* being stronger?
[04:22] <ScottK> About not doing more.
[04:23] <ScottK> Discussion is in Bug 629622
[04:23] <ScottK> qapt accepted, BTW.
[04:23] <ScottK> skrooge too
[04:26] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Also they bumped to 11 point because 10 point is smaller in the Ubuntu font than in whatever it's replacing.
[04:26] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Does gtk2-engines-qtcurve need to be rejected too?
[04:26] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: no, that's fine. It's actually what made me catch the k-d-s bug
[04:27] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: OK.  I'll let it sit until there's a new k-d-s to go with it.
[04:27] <JontheEchidna> I'm afraid I let myself get distracted with FTBFS fixing ;-)
[04:28] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:28] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: BTW, there's no need to wait for the reject before re-uploading.  The queue can hold more than one package of the same version in unapproved.  Just only one can ever make it in.
[04:28] <JontheEchidna> aah, ok
[04:29] <JontheEchidna> once I finish up with ktoon I'll get back to k-d-s
[04:30] <ScottK> Cool.
[04:32] <ScottK> BTW, chromium and KDE should be able to agree that it's the default browser in Maverick again.  FTA backported some stuff to make that possible today.
[04:32] <JontheEchidna> nice. I told it to stop asking me
[04:36] <JontheEchidna> I, personally bumped my font settings up from 8 to 8.5 when I switched to the Ubuntu font
[04:36] <JontheEchidna> stray , in there
[04:36] <JontheEchidna> we default to 9 point currently
[04:38] <JontheEchidna> I think 9 looks fine: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MaverickMeerkat/RC/Kubuntu?action=AttachFile&do=view
[04:39] <JontheEchidna> hmm, that link probably won't work
[04:39] <JontheEchidna> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MaverickMeerkat/RC/Kubuntu?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=kpk4.png
[04:39] <JontheEchidna> but we can bump things up by one if there is a need
[04:39] <JontheEchidna> If we make this the last upload of k-d-s, it'll be k-d-s 1:10.10ubuntu10
[04:49] <JontheEchidna> turns out we're already using medium hinting
[04:50] <CIA-116> [ubuntu] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (debian/changelog debian/control share/config/kdeglobals) * Switch to the Ubuntu font as the default font, as approved by the Kubuntu Council * Add a dependency on ttf-ubuntu-font-family for the above
[05:00] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1181452 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (2 files in 2 dirs) SVN_SILENT: Krazy2 fixes
[05:43] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Both accepted.
[07:34] <markey> is this bad:
[07:34] <markey> W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/ppa/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404  Not Found
[07:54] <jussi> Hrm, bug 651050 affects me, on a normal kubuntu install, but has been marked as invalid. what to do?
[08:05] <markey> thanks for LibLastFM update, seems to work fine :)
[08:17] <yao_ziyuan> when you release an alpha or beta, you're supposed to build apps with more debugging information, and therefore they would run slower than a final release, right?
[08:19] <Riddell> one can do
[08:22] <yao_ziyuan> thanks
[08:32] <agateau> Riddell: morning, this is your daily reminder for https://code.launchpad.net/~agateau/plasma-widget-message-indicator/fix-text-overlap-in-systemtray/+merge/37106 :)
[08:32] <Riddell> yep, I'll get onto that momentarily, thanks agateau
[08:32] <agateau> Riddell: great
[08:33] <apachelogger> yay, it is always a good thing to start a new semester with calculus \o/
[08:33] <apachelogger> I will derive!
[08:34] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9dpTTpjymE
[08:35]  * ulysses passed calulus 1 and 2 \o/
[08:37] <apachelogger> ulysses: congrats
[08:38] <ulysses> 2 years ago, in my first year
[08:38] <apachelogger> ulysses: still congratuatable, no?
[08:38] <ulysses> yes, some of my friends still doing it
[08:39] <apachelogger> maybe they like it so much, I personally do
[08:39] <ulysses> :D
[08:39] <apachelogger> not that I would be paritcularly good at it, but I like it ;)
[08:40]  * apachelogger builds his own vlc thinking that maybe the packages might be what broke his paintaing code so badly
[08:56] <ulysses> Beautiful: http://imagebin.ca/img/D4HbWF9.png
[09:04] <valorie> good lord, what is that?
[09:04] <valorie> eek
[09:05] <ulysses> Kubuntu 10.10 RC in Virtualbox, right after installing guest additions
[09:05] <persia> Is that some sort of AA rendering environment?
[09:06] <valorie> wow
[09:06] <apachelogger> sweet baby jesus!
[09:06] <valorie> looks like a nightmare
[09:06]  * persia is impressed that aalib can handle that sort of environment
[09:13] <Mamarok> ulysses: beautiful is different, but nice POC
[09:13] <Mamarok> too many colors in the text, though, makes it unreadable
[09:16] <debfx> ulysses: how did you install the guest additions?
[09:19] <ulysses> sudo /media/VBoxGuestAdditions/VboxLinuxadditions-x86.run
[09:20] <debfx> ulysses: you should install the package virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 instead
[09:20] <ulysses> Didn't know that, thanks
[09:21] <debfx> yeah the guest additions are packaged
[09:23] <ulysses> good news
[10:07] <nigelb> Riddell: Um, were you able to find someone for kubuntu in open week?
[10:08] <Riddell> nigelb: not given the matter much thought
[10:10] <nigelb> oh, ok
[10:19] <debfx> apachelogger: do you know a workaround for the openoffice crash when using the raster graphicssystem?
[10:22] <Riddell> use KOffice :)
[10:23] <valorie> lol
[10:25] <nigelb> heh
[10:37] <lucidfox> Well
[10:38] <lucidfox> Last I tried, KWord was slow and had eye-burning font rendering
[10:40] <Riddell> but now that it defaults to the Ubuntu font it'll be nice and smooth
[10:42] <lucidfox> Is that sarcasm?
[10:42] <lucidfox> I mean on the page, actually. The documents I tried to edit used Verdana. The fonts were much crisper in AbiWord and OOo
[10:43] <lucidfox> it seems to me that KWord just ignores the full hinting setting, and always did since early 2.0 beta
[10:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/screencasts/phonon+proper-qgraphicitem.ogv check this out
[10:46] <apachelogger> ohw it is so beautiful and nice and and omg
[10:47] <apachelogger> debfx: kApp->setGraphicsSystem("native");
[10:47] <apachelogger> debfx: whereever kapp gets constructed
[10:47] <apachelogger> I did not find out where also I found ooo code scary so I did not bother to look closer
[10:48] <apachelogger> if you cannot find where the kapp comes from then just do that before every K* function does things
[10:49] <apachelogger> also FTR: that is not even a workaround but the proper way to do it, because shtylman told me ooo hands the KDE integration foo a widget to paint on, which is of course dependent on X11 and hence native paintaing *must* be enforced globally via setGraphicsSystem
[10:50] <debfx> apachelogger: I was thinking about a workaround that doesn't involve recompiling OO.o :)
[10:50] <apachelogger> also FTR: one can manually swap the system on a per-painter basis, so say only a minor part of your software requires X11 foo and the painting is reasonable accessable one can (or maybe even should) just swap the graphicsengine for that particular painter
[10:51] <apachelogger> also FTR: graphicssystem == graphicsengine (when one browses the painting docu usually they talk about the engine, which is synonymous to the system)
[10:51] <debfx> I guess setting QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM=native in /usr/bin/ooffice should fix it
[10:51] <apachelogger> debfx: yep
[10:51] <apachelogger> just wanted to say that
[10:51] <apachelogger> however, that really is a workaround ;)
[10:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: ooh pretty
[10:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: that is native painted now, rather than the thing I did the other day (which asked Phonon::VideoWidget to do the painting)
[10:55] <apachelogger> also FTR again: Phonon::Experimental contains about all the stuff that currently sets QtMultimediaKit apart from phonon so once more I am  not sure why the kit is even existing
[10:55] <apachelogger> (most importantly QtMultimediaKit does have a graphicsitem already ;))
[10:58] <Riddell> nobody outside Brisbane knows that
[11:05] <howlymowly> hi poeple.. shor question abot maverick: my plasama effects right now are turned off by default... my default settings do not matter in this case. I always have to turn them on manually (using the keaboard shortcut for example) is this supposed to be like this?
[11:06] <Riddell> you probably have a blacklisted driver
[11:06] <howlymowly> Riddell: will this change, until the release of maverick?
[11:07] <howlymowly> (i got an intel graphics chipset btw...)
[11:17] <debfx> apachelogger: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages/go-openoffice-qt-native/go-openoffice-qt-native/qt-use-native-backend.diff
[11:17] <apachelogger> ...ah, yeah, why upstream fixes...
[11:17] <Riddell> howlymowly: probably not, how well does it work with effects?
[11:18] <howlymowly> Riddell: I have not seen the slightest problems..  In fact on maverick it runs better than ever
[11:18] <howlymowly> its an intel 965gm chipse
[11:18] <howlymowly> *chipset
[11:19] <Riddell> hmm, I have "Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics" and when I turn on effects it works much of the time but e.g. konsole has notable refreshing problems and the systray has funny colours
[11:35] <debfx> apachelogger: there is an upstream bug with a link to that patch: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=113246
[11:35] <debfx> filing a bug against libreoffice might be more promising
[11:39] <Tm_T> Riddell: I remember there has been discussion and bugfixing related to konsole drawing, there were some technical reason why it is/was slow
[11:39] <Tm_T> ...during the KDE4 developmet
[11:39] <ScottK> Riddell or JontheEchidna: Does kubuntu-netbook-default-settings need an upload for the font?
[11:41] <debfx> ScottK: yes
[11:44] <ScottK> Riddell: Can you do it?
[11:44] <ScottK> debfx: Thanks.
[11:45] <Tm_T> ScottK: any images incoming that needs some testing?
[11:45] <Tm_T> (PPC)
[11:46] <ScottK> Tm_T: If you could take the latest daily for a spin and see how it goes, that would be good.
[11:46] <Tm_T> wi l look at it today then (:
[11:50] <Riddell> ScottK: keeping the eye wateringly small size?
[11:51] <ScottK> Riddell: I'd knock it up one point from what we had since allegedly this font renders smaller.
[11:52] <apachelogger> debfx: Ic
[11:52] <apachelogger> shtylman: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=113246
[12:07] <mokush> hey, I've updated to 10.10 beta, and completly lost wifi support. any way to kickstart it manualy?
[12:11]  * Riddell uploads kubuntu-netbook-default-settings
[12:12] <Riddell> mokush: try installing the RC?
[12:12] <mokush> I was hopeing to be able to update the beta to the rc, without burning a disc
[12:32] <ScottK> Riddell: k-n-d-s accepted.
[12:32] <ScottK> Thanks.
[12:34] <davmor2> mokush: is your machine unplgged?
[12:35] <mokush> unplugged as in network plug?
[12:38] <davmor2> mokush: as in no power goning into the machine
[12:39] <mokush> davmor2: is this some kind of joke?
[12:40] <davmor2> mokush: nope pm-utils causes some wifi cards to not connect if the machine is not connect to power.  if that was the case there is a work around you can try
[12:42] <davmor2> mokush: try "sudo pm-powersave false" then try to connect again
[12:42] <mokush> I'm on a toshiba l300 laptop, always plugged. Atheros AR5007EG wireless card. The network manager does not start at all.
[12:43] <davmor2> mokush: Ah okay that's something completely different then
[12:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: did we reach conclusion on the font?
[12:46] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's in.
[12:46] <apachelogger> as default?
[12:46] <Riddell> yes
[12:47] <apachelogger> cool
[12:47] <Riddell> shadeslayer and 999 million other Indians will be most happy
[12:49] <apachelogger> hm
[12:50] <apachelogger> dolphin has some serious scaling issues
[12:50] <apachelogger> 11k files and dolphin goes wocka
[13:02] <shadeslayer> 0_o
[13:03] <shadeslayer> whuh..
[13:03] <apachelogger> updateMetaData(): artist: Apollo 440
[13:03] <apachelogger> updateMetaData(): title: Stop The Rock
[13:03] <apachelogger> those were good times
[13:03] <apachelogger> the 1990's werent so bad after all ^^
[13:03] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what font? :P
[13:03] <shadeslayer> the ubuntu font?
[13:04] <shadeslayer> i hates it now ..
[13:04] <apachelogger> the supreme master font that fell from the heaven after devine intervention by sabdfl
[13:04] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yeah, so mainstream, horrible
[13:04]  * apachelogger shall use gnuunicode or what it was called
[13:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: it looks all squashed on my LCD now
[13:04] <shadeslayer> dunno what happened
[13:04] <shadeslayer> the beta one was awesome
[13:05] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Try changing the hinting from medium to slight.
[13:05] <apachelogger> well, open source -> degrading quality right there
[13:05] <apachelogger> ScottK: should that not be defaulted?
[13:05] <apachelogger> if it makes the system look better?
[13:05] <shadeslayer> ScottK: is hinting enabled?
[13:05] <sabdfl> it should, yes
[13:05] <shadeslayer> ( by default )
[13:05] <ScottK> That was part of yesterday's discussion.
[13:05] <shadeslayer> because it is *necessary* for the ubuntu fonts
[13:06] <shadeslayer> ah ok ..
[13:06] <ScottK> Currently Ubuntu is defaulting to slight and we are defaulting to medium
[13:06] <ScottK> (which is what we had before)
[13:06]  * shadeslayer has autohinting
[13:06] <ScottK> Given we have not very long to make changes, if people aren't happy with it as it is, I'd like to know soon if that helps.
[13:06] <apachelogger> couldnt that be set on fontconfig level?
[13:07] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's in k-d-s/k-n-d-s.
[13:07] <ScottK> No idea if it could or not.
[13:07] <shadeslayer> oh wait.. its says medium.. weird
[13:08] <shadeslayer> also K/Ubuntu is catching up in my university.. finally
[13:08] <apachelogger> not here
[13:08] <apachelogger> we are all diehard debian fanbois
[13:08] <shadeslayer> hehe ..
[13:08]  * apachelogger has a debian install just so he does not stick out when he is @ university ^^
[13:08] <shadeslayer> my university is all pro-MS
[13:09] <Riddell> 10 year old debian in my case
[13:09] <shadeslayer> good to see people poking me about k/ubuntu these days
[13:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: so what, the 3 minor versions more up-to-date kernel does not change much :P
[13:10] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/503863/ is it me or does that function look like something you would not want to call every day?
[13:11] <shadeslayer> ScottK: still squashed :(
[13:12] <ScottK> OK.  No idea then.
[13:12] <shadeslayer> ScottK:  http://imgur.com/vJ1xz
[13:12] <shadeslayer> just to show how it looks like
[13:12] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ ?
[13:13] <yofel> that looks fine to me, at least it looks like that here too (slight hinting set in fontconfig and KDE to system settings)
[13:13] <shadeslayer> yofel: ill show it with droid sans font
[13:14] <yofel> the ubuntu font is more slim than other fonts, but that's not bad..
[13:14] <shadeslayer> http://imgur.com/CQWgb
[13:14] <shadeslayer> compare those side by side :>
[13:15]  * apachelogger starts singing
[13:15] <ScottK> I like the Ubuntu one better.
[13:16] <shadeslayer> ScottK: dont the ubuntu ones seem squashed to you?
[13:16] <yofel> right, it's smaller, but it doesn't look different from the beta one, just takes some getting used to
[13:16] <ScottK> The problem with fonts is that your opinion is largely colored by what you're used to.
[13:16]  * yofel misses a mono version though :/
[13:16] <shadeslayer> its alot different than beta
[13:16] <shadeslayer> from what i observed
[13:16] <ScottK> shadeslayer: No, but I don't use either of those fonts, so they are both new to me.
[13:16] <apachelogger> ScottK: hence I would have +1'd on setting a mono font default
[13:16] <apachelogger> muhahaha :D
[13:17] <apachelogger> mono spaced fonts are the uberawesome
[13:17]  * ScottK was voting for delivering the features before feature freeze.
[13:17] <yofel> well, I couldn't really compare them, as my font settings got messed up for a while when I switched them
[13:17] <yofel> I only use monospace for IRC and Konsole
[13:17]  * ScottK will let the people who wanted the font figure it out.
[13:19] <shadeslayer> annyyways
[13:23]  * shadeslayer wants better graphics for installer
[13:31] <apachelogger> I rather have someone findout why my kmix is broken since I removed pulse
[13:34] <al> other way around for me since 4.5
[13:35] <al> kmix started simulating some kind of pulse support, but went from working fine to doing all kinds of weird stuff
[13:37] <apachelogger> not nice at all
[13:58] <debfx> the font settings in k-d-s and k-n-d-s are broken (has a dot instead of comma)
[14:00] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^
[14:00] <ScottK> They seem to be doing something as I have the new font.
[14:01] <debfx> yes, but the size is set to 12
[14:06] <ScottK> Where do I check that?
[14:07] <ScottK> Mine are Ubuntu 7 or * on netbook.
[14:07] <ScottK> */8
[14:07] <ScottK> Which means the new size didn't take effect.
[14:10] <Tm_T> huh, is there any way to disable spell checking entirely? The fact that Konqueror keeps it enabled no matter what I have set for it, keeps crippling my system in time to time
[14:18] <debfx> ScottK: have you changed the fonts in the kcm before?
[14:20] <ScottK> debfx: I had not.
[14:21] <shtylman> apachelogger: will do
[14:49] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Coming to US?
[14:49] <ScottK> Oops.  I know you are.
[14:49] <ScottK> shtylman: Coming to UDS?
[15:04] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Now that I've got the font on my netbook, I agree it looks squashed, but maybe I'll get used to it.
[15:06] <Riddell> debfx: tsk, I knew that didn't look right
[15:07] <ScottK> Riddell: Bumping the font up one size in netbook like we agree was definitely the right choice.
[15:20] <ScottK> claydoh_: Please have a look at the proposed release note in Bug #651294 and add it to ours too.
[15:35] <debfx> Riddell: do you want me to fix the font settings?
[15:38] <shadeslayer> ScottK: :D
[15:38] <shadeslayer> <3 the beta fonts, the final release is squashed :(
[15:39] <shadeslayer> ScottK: also, everything depends on the Visa
[15:39] <shadeslayer> i hope i get it, but cant say
[15:39] <ScottK> Right.
[15:43]  * shadeslayer notes amarok is all broken
[15:49] <debfx> markey: any news on the applet width bug?
[15:49] <shadeslayer> yeah thats the one i have i think ^
[15:52] <zanoi> are there any plans to add some installation instructions to the Kubuntu website, similar to the ones the Ubuntu website has?
[15:52] <zanoi> my girlfriend tried to install kubuntu but didnt know what to do after the download
[15:52] <ScottK> ryanakca: ^^^
[15:53] <zanoi> when i showed her the ubuntu website it worked out fine
[15:53] <ulysses> zanoi: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall/Kubuntu
[15:53] <ulysses> I guess the screenshots should be updated
[15:54] <zanoi> ulysses: cool, now if that page could be linked to where one download the iso it would be great
[15:54] <zanoi> ulysses: also the way the ubuntu website does it is unbelievable user friendly
[15:54] <zanoi> (except that it doesn't work with konqueror)
[15:55] <ulysses> I don't know how they do, but I'll look at
[15:55] <zanoi> ulysses: http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download
[15:55] <ulysses> aham, I see
[15:56] <ulysses> Not bad
[15:56] <zanoi> they let you choose which os you're on and whether you want a cd or usb and then present simple steps on how to install
[15:56] <ScottK> agateau: Do we have a messaging indicator or a messaging menu in Kubuntu?
[15:57] <agateau> ScottK: mmm, what's the difference?
[15:57] <agateau> ScottK: we have a Plasma widget
[15:57] <ScottK> agateau: I want to describe it correctly.
[15:57] <ScottK> (it being the plasma widget)
[15:58] <agateau> ScottK: ok, the widget is named plasma-widget-message-indicator so I would go for "indicator"
[15:58] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:04] <debfx> ScottK: I've fixed k-d-s, could you upload it?
[16:05] <ScottK> Perhaps in a bit if Riddell doesn't get to it first.
[16:05] <ScottK> debfx: Are you doing k-n-d-s too?
[16:06] <ScottK> debfx: Does gtk2-engines-qtcurve need fixing too?
[16:06] <debfx> ScottK: yes, it doesn't have a bzr branch, right?
[16:06] <ScottK> No idea.
[16:06] <debfx> ScottK: qtcurve is fine
[16:06] <ScottK> Cool.
[16:07] <debfx> ScottK: http://people.ubuntu.com/~debfx/kubuntu-netbook-default-settings_10.10.6.debdiff
[16:19] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you mind doing Bug #624512 so I can say it's done when we get to the MOTU section of the release meeting.
[16:36] <markey> debfx: pong. you asked about news regarding applet sizes? in 2.3.2 I applied a (very hacky) patch shortly before tagging that gets around the issue
[16:36] <markey> calling resize() on the MainWindow right after startup
[16:36] <markey> seems to work for most people
[16:36] <markey> it would however be nice to have this solved for real
[16:36] <markey> the bug is in Plasma and/or Qt
[16:36] <markey> noone knows...
[16:36] <dantti> Riddell: I generated the patch here, but as I renamed some .png files they do not appear in the patch, isn't it better just to resync? since the patch would be the same thing?
[16:37] <dantti> I can send you the patch so that you see what changed, mostly bug fixes and a few speedy improvements
[16:37] <debfx> markey: it doesn't work for shadeslayer and me
[16:37] <markey> debfx: which KDE and Qt version?
[16:38] <debfx> markey: 4.5.1 and 4.7.0
[16:38] <markey> interesting
[16:38] <markey> I have the same setup
[16:38] <debfx> does it work for you on maverick?
[16:38] <markey> I only heard about issues with KDE trunk now
[16:38] <markey> yes, it does
[16:38] <markey> but I suspect this is timing sensitive. my patch simple resizes 1500ms after Amarok is shown
[16:38] <Riddell> ScottK: but I should be paying attention to the meeting not processing bugs!
[16:39] <markey> I guess that time could be too short in some situations
[16:39] <debfx> maybe it's a problem if the window is still hidden?
[16:39] <ScottK> Riddell: I know you're a king of multi-tasking
[16:39] <markey> debfx: aaah, absolutely. that could very well render the patch useless
[16:39] <markey> I never thought of this
[16:40] <markey> but we don't have any other solutions anyway...
[16:41] <debfx> calling resize when the window is first shown might do the trick
[16:41] <markey> debfx: Plasma in KDE 4.5 brought so many regressions for us, it's not even funny
[16:41] <markey> we had to deal with 4 different bugs
[16:41] <markey> debfx: that might work, if you can figure out when it is actually rendered on the screen, for real
[16:41] <markey> polish() doesn't suffice
[16:42] <markey> maybe waiting for a showEvent()
[16:42] <markey> or similar
[16:42] <markey> debfx: my patch is very small, it's in App::resizeMainWindow()
[16:42] <Riddell> ScottK: done
[16:42] <markey> if you look at the code, you'll see instantly how it works
[16:42] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[16:44] <shadeslayer> markey: its pretty randomn
[16:44] <markey> shadeslayer: this sucks :(
[16:44] <shadeslayer> it works when you start amarok, but then when you restore it, it from systray it sometimes doesnt show it properly
[16:45] <markey> I spent like 10 hours working around all those Plasma bugs
[16:45] <markey> at this point, I'd rather switch to Qt Quick at some point
[16:45] <debfx> shadeslayer: for me it only happens when amarok is started hidden to tray
[16:45] <shadeslayer> debfx: how does one do that?
[16:46] <debfx> shadeslayer: close amarok when it's hidden
[16:46] <debfx> it remebers the hidden/shown state
[16:47] <Riddell> ScottK: I'm a bit short of things to say in the meeting, we don't have enough problems this release, anything I should say?
[16:47] <ScottK> Riddell: Wax poetic about the font.
[16:47] <shadeslayer> oh yus
[16:47] <shadeslayer> markey:  debfx: confirmed : http://imgur.com/bSDjD
[16:47] <ScottK> KDM still crashing on logout for me, but workaround in a proposed release note
[16:48] <markey> shadeslayer: you started it hidden in the tray?
[16:48] <shadeslayer> markey: yes
[16:48] <markey> yeah, that was to be expected
[16:48] <markey> the way my patch works
[16:48] <markey> I could try to make an improved version, but not tonight
[16:48] <markey> could we get it into maverick still, say, on Monday?
[16:49] <markey> also, for crying out loud, it would be nice to get some help from the Plasma folks...
[16:50] <ScottK> Riddell: The X/KDM thing is Bug 651294
[16:50] <shadeslayer> markey: #plasma is _that_ way :P
[16:50] <ScottK> I didn't milestone it since I knew it wouldn't be fixed.
[16:51] <shadeslayer> markey: ive just started getting my hands dirty with plasma, simple stuff for now :)
[16:52] <markey> shadeslayer: hehe, they focus on the KDE Plasma desktop. Amarok's use case is rare, there are hardly any apps that usee LibPlasma
[16:52] <markey> so it gets little testing
[16:52] <shadeslayer> markey: use something else then... why use something that breaks stuff :(
[16:52] <markey> lol
[16:53] <markey> as I said, I want to experiment with Qt Quick. but we can'T depend on Qt 4.7 just yet :)
[16:53] <shadeslayer> ah
[16:54] <shadeslayer> markey: maybe it needs another  App::resizeMainWindow() somewhere?
[16:54] <ScottK> markey: Why not?  It's been released for a week now hasn't it?  It's practically obsolete.
[16:54] <shadeslayer> lol
[16:55] <markey> haha
[16:55] <markey> shadeslayer: I think the patch should work like this: detect when Amarok is actually _shown_ (which is not so easy), and then trigger the resize()
[16:56] <shadeslayer> hmm
[16:56] <markey> it's the hackiest patch ever:
[16:56] <markey>     m_mainWindow->resize( m_mainWindow->width(), m_mainWindow->height() - 1 );
[16:56] <markey>     m_mainWindow->resize( m_mainWindow->width(), m_mainWindow->height() + 1 );
[16:56] <markey> :p
[16:56] <shadeslayer> yeah :D
[16:57] <shadeslayer> ok now i really need to finish kdelibs merge or ScottK will come after me :P
[16:57] <markey> kk
[16:58] <markey> apachelogger: you're a big fan of hacks that make baby jesus cry, right? see above ^
[16:58] <markey> :D
[16:59] <apachelogger> :O
[16:59] <dasKreech> It's an opportunity
[16:59] <apachelogger> you just topped the way I triggered painting of a whole graphicsscene to get a video ....
[16:59] <apachelogger> by like a 1000000 times
[17:00]  * apachelogger needs a cigarette
[17:01] <markey> smoking is bad, m'kay? I stopped long ago, and  here I'm sitting with a nice tasty cigar
[17:01] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: drugs + KDE == fluffy ? :)
[17:02] <markey> can't stop loving cigars.... screw cigarettes though
[17:03] <dasKreech> Outside of Soviet Russia. Ciggies screw you!
[17:04] <shadeslayer> hehe ...
[17:04]  * shadeslayer gets 2 tickets for Russia and gives one to apachelogger
[17:05] <shadeslayer> ScottK: how did you sync control and control.in in the last merge? i dont understand
[17:05] <shadeslayer> ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/4:3.5.10.dfsg.1-3ubuntu1 :: specifically
[17:05] <ScottK> shadeslayer: control.in should rebuild control if it's changed when you build the source package, IIRC.
[17:06] <ScottK> I may have in fact just hand edited them both to be sure.  I don't recall.
[17:07] <shadeslayer> ScottK: hmm... right now the diff between control and control.in is http://paste.ubuntu.com/503992/ , i dont think it needs any work, can you tell me if im right?
[17:07] <shadeslayer> im working with control.in only for the second time i think
[17:07] <dasKreech> shadeslayer: nice airlines :) they have tickets for Russia and separate ones for Soviet Russia? :)
[17:07] <ScottK> shadeslayer: line 26 you want to fix
[17:08] <shadeslayer> dasKreech: hahaha :P
[17:08] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ah ok ..
[17:09] <shadeslayer> 18 too i guess?
[17:17] <ScottK> Yes, but less important.
[17:28] <shadeslayer> ScottK: erm.. i find 2 patches in debian/patches that have not been documented ( 17_kdelibs_rubberband.diff and 19_debianize_useragent.diff )
[17:28] <shadeslayer> from debian package
[17:29] <ScottK> As long as they aren't new, I wouldn't worry about it.  That's a VERY old package.
[17:29] <shadeslayer> hmm... yeah i noticed :(
[17:30] <shadeslayer> but since the changelog doesnt mention them...
[17:31] <ScottK> I'm reasonabyl sure 19 isn't needed, but I really wouldn't change more than I have to in that package.
[17:32] <JontheEchidna> if I had to guess, I'd think that the package would be almost as old as debian itself
[17:32] <shadeslayer> hehe ...
[17:33] <shadeslayer> then theres 68_support_khelpcenter4.diff
[17:33] <shadeslayer> dunno where that came from either
[17:43] <shadeslayer> ScottK: do we want debian/tmp/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kspell/* ?
[17:44] <ScottK> I don't remember.
[17:45] <shadeslayer> hmm... debian has them...
[17:45] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: No, KDE didn't get to Debian until ~2000 IIRC.  Debian is considerably older.
[17:45] <shadeslayer> but we didnt for last release
[17:45] <shadeslayer> also ... its that time of the year again :D
[17:55] <Riddell> ScottK: the KDE packages have been around almost as long as Debian, I think they were even in Debian before they got kicked out
[17:55] <ScottK> Ah. I did not know that.
[17:55] <Riddell> anyway, why is shadeslayer looking at the kde 3 libs package?
[17:56] <DarkwingDuck> Hey Riddell, ScottK
[17:56] <ScottK> Riddell: Security fixes in a merge from Debian.
[17:56] <ScottK> Hello DarkwingDuck
[17:56] <shadeslayer> im almost done
[17:56] <shadeslayer> need to test build after this
[17:56] <DarkwingDuck> Making the move back to california
[17:58] <Riddell> hi DarkwingDuck
[17:58] <Riddell> "I just finished uploading the first set of KDE 4.5.2 tarballs."
[17:58] <jjesse> hello DarkwingDuck
[17:58] <Riddell> ~ninjas
[17:58] <Riddell> or something like that
[17:58] <shadeslayer> !ninjas
[17:58] <jjesse> DarkwingDuck i thought you were moving to indiana?
[17:58] <shadeslayer> Riddell: we does not have kubotu :(
[17:59] <jjesse> wow only getting 4.6 kb/s down on the torrent of the rc :(
[17:59] <shadeslayer> and i forgot about !kubuntu :P
[17:59] <DarkwingDuck> Job fell through
[17:59] <jjesse> bummer
[17:59] <shadeslayer> jjesse: zsync++
[17:59] <rgreening> yo
[17:59] <shadeslayer> rgreening: to the bat cave!
[17:59] <jjesse> shadeslayer: can't figure out zsync on my windows 7 box i'm on
[17:59] <jjesse> :(
[17:59] <bulldog98> shadeslayer: what’s up?
[18:00] <shadeslayer> hehe :P
[18:00] <rgreening> na-na na-na na na...
[18:00] <DarkwingDuck> Aye but, cali is where I belong
[18:00] <maco> rgreening: batman?
[18:00] <shadeslayer> bulldog98: 4.5.2 on ktown ...
[18:00] <shadeslayer> haz fun.. i have to finish kde 3 libs first :P
[18:00] <rgreening> maco rul3z
[18:01] <txwikinger> ninja time?
[18:01] <shadeslayer> oh oh oh oh
[18:01] <rgreening> maco == batgirl
[18:01] <shadeslayer> Riddell: 0.6.1 rekonq out in a few days.. can we haz in final release ?
[18:01]  * txwikinger wonders if rgreening wants to be Robin
[18:01]  * ScottK makes a note to let rgreening's wife know he's making advances on young women on IRC.
[18:01] <rgreening> no one wants to be robin
[18:01] <Riddell> shadeslayer: unlikely
[18:02] <shadeslayer> SRU?
[18:02] <rgreening> not even robin
[18:02] <bulldog98> shadeslayer: the problem is that I don’t have acces to ktown
[18:02] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ^
[18:02] <Riddell> bulldog98: we can fix that, where's your ssh key?
[18:02] <ScottK> Riddell can fix that.
[18:02]  * txwikinger has to prepare for his presentation tomorrow: Kubuntu Hacking
[18:03] <Riddell> txwikinger: where's that?
[18:03] <shadeslayer> ScottK: what is ksvntopng? :P
[18:03] <txwikinger> Southern Ontario Hackerspace Conference Riddell
[18:03] <Riddell> sounds fun
[18:03] <ScottK> shadeslayer: No idea.
[18:03] <shadeslayer> mmmkay
[18:03] <txwikinger> Riddell: yeah.. the name badge is a pcb board with microcontroller for prototyping
[18:04] <txwikinger> I am trying to build a free toolchain working on Kubuntu for this
[18:04]  * txwikinger is wondering about Hackers and their dependency on proprietary software
[18:08] <txwikinger> Riddell: how difficult is it to use kdevelop with a specialised gcc toolchain?
[18:08] <Riddell> I've no idea
[18:09] <Riddell> I've never used either
[18:09] <Riddell> I've never used e
[18:09] <txwikinger> :D
[18:09] <txwikinger> maybe I just present the hwo to hack Qt stuff
[18:09] <shadeslayer> \o/ kdelibs done
[18:10] <txwikinger> oh this is interesting: kdevelop: symbol lookup error: kdevelop: undefined symbol: _ZN8KDevelop4Core10initializeENS0_5SetupE
[18:11] <shadeslayer> txwikinger: broken packages :S
[18:11] <shadeslayer> txwikinger: which release ?
[18:11] <txwikinger> shadeslayer: lucid
[18:11] <shadeslayer> txwikinger: i mean which kdevelop version ?
[18:13] <txwikinger> ah.. I think it is still the old kdevelop-kde4 package lingering around
[18:14] <txwikinger> what is the ninja time for... maverick or preparing for m+1?
[18:14] <Riddell> shadeslayer: do you know why rekonq seems to not pick up our font settings?
[18:14] <Riddell> it seems to like Liberation over Ubuntu
[18:14] <shadeslayer> hmm
[18:14] <shadeslayer> i think it uses its own config files
[18:14] <shadeslayer> there was a discussion about that IIRC
[18:15] <txwikinger> ok.. this kdevelop is better :D
[18:16] <shadeslayer> Riddell: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/rekonq/2010-May/001316.html ?
[18:17] <shadeslayer> lemme confirm
[18:19]  * markey huggles apachelogger
[18:19] <markey> apachelogger: you gonna come to Dornbirn?
[18:21] <jjesse> heres a question whenever i go to start the 386 rc download torrent i get a message the file is missing
[18:22] <jjesse> "errors file missing please recheck"
[18:24] <bulldog98> Riddell: https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Ebulldog98/+sshkeys the JonathansRechner one
[18:25] <bulldog98> shadeslayer: can you remind adjam that the translation for documentation has to be includet into the next tarball
[18:25] <Riddell> bulldog98: ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:25] <Riddell> hmm, documentation translations
[18:25] <shadeslayer> bulldog98: i think he already mentioned it
[18:25] <bulldog98> shadeslayer: ok
[18:27] <shadeslayer> i hate these patches :S
[18:29] <shadeslayer> Riddell: do you guys still have some 10.04 Kubuntu CD stock left over?
[18:29] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I think we do
[18:29] <Riddell> shadeslayer: want to take them off canonical's hands?
[18:29] <shadeslayer> yeah sure :)
[18:29] <Riddell> how many?
[18:30] <shadeslayer> Riddell: not for me, one of my friends wants them, he will mail you the details :D
[18:30] <shadeslayer> ( he will distribute them in his tech fest )
[18:31] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I need a postal address where someone will be in to collect them and a phone number
[18:31] <shadeslayer> sure ..
[18:33] <maco> hmm i suspect the dc loco could use some too. i think there are more kde users than gnome users among us, so we tend to give out the kubuntu cds pretty quickly
[18:34] <Riddell> same rules then
[18:43] <debfx> markey: this patch seems to work: http://people.ubuntu.com/~debfx/amarok_resize_window_hack.diff
[18:44] <markey> debfx: looking now
[18:46] <Riddell> dantti: was there a patch for kpackagekit updates?
[18:49] <shadeslayer> bahahaha ... archive skew
[18:49] <shadeslayer>   bzip2: Depends: libbz2-1.0 (= 1.0.5-4) but 1.0.5-4ubuntu1 is to be installed.
[18:52] <lex79> in pbuilder?
[18:52] <shadeslayer> lex79: yus
[18:52] <shadeslayer> Riddell: did you get the mail?
[18:52] <lex79> just login into pbuilder and run the upgrade
[18:53] <shadeslayer> ok ... lets see :)
[18:55] <shadeslayer> lex79: great works :D
[18:55] <lex79> :)
[18:58] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yes thanks
[19:00] <ScottK> Riddell: The font fixes for the various default settings packages are accepted.
[19:03] <Riddell> thanks
[19:03] <Riddell> silly mistake that
[19:05] <lex79> so finally we have the right font ;)
[19:05] <Riddell> go go ninjas https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging
[19:06] <shadeslayer> i wonder when the wiki gets a new theme
[19:06] <lex79> since we broken the rules yesterday, today we can upload 4.5.2 in the archive?
[19:06]  * lex79 giggles
[19:06] <shadeslayer> hehe.. i dont think so
[19:07] <lex79> why not? :)
[19:07] <shadeslayer> IIRC we are supposed to release with 4.5.1
[19:07] <Riddell> that'll annoy both ubuntu people (for breaking freezes with stuff we havn't sufficiently tested) and upstream (for releasing packages before they do)
[19:08] <lex79> I know I'm just kidding :P
[19:08]  * maco checks the setting on Riddell's Humour Detector
[19:08] <maco> oh or maybe you have an imbalance of the humours?
[19:11]  * lex79 takes the hand of maco for a dance
[19:13] <maco> im thinking of a Doctor Who episode now
[19:13] <lex79> :)
[19:18] <nixternal> just reformat/reinstall maverick. hot! only issue thus far is the stupid ass intel/mesa/whatever issue that prevents and/or corrupts the display
[19:18] <nixternal> prevents compositing that is
[19:20] <shadeslayer> lex79: issue still present :(
[19:20] <shtylman> apachelogger: out of curiosity, how does office fail when using the raster engine?
[19:20] <lex79> shadeslayer: where?
[19:20] <shadeslayer> lex79: when running pdebuild
[19:21] <lex79> did you say that it worked before?
[19:21] <shadeslayer> yes, but as in, when i logged in -> ran dist-upgrade it worked fine
[19:22] <lex79> did you run sudo pbuilder login with --save-after-login ?
[19:23] <shadeslayer> no ... :S
[19:23] <lex79> eh
[19:32] <debfx> shtylman: openoffice crashes right after starting it
[19:38] <shtylman> nice
[19:39] <howlymowly> hi poeple...  I am using ubuntu on my laptop... my soundcard works, but the maximum volume level is very low (even though i have turned everything to 100% with alsamixer). does anyone know how to configure the maximum sound level?
[19:41] <Riddell> oh, nixternal gone
[19:42] <shadeslayer> !support | howlymowly
[19:44] <shadeslayer> lex79: v
[19:44] <shadeslayer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/504082/
[19:45] <shadeslayer> hmm..libart...
[19:46] <lex79> this means you didnt' save the changes when you exit from pbuilder chroot
[19:47] <shadeslayer> erm.. im running pdebuild, im not in pbuilder chroot
[19:47] <shadeslayer> apparently control.in wasnt edited to remove arts
[19:47] <lex79> I don't know about pdebuild
[19:49] <shadeslayer> hmm im sleeping, too tired to continue this...
[19:53] <Riddell> control.in files are evil
[20:11] <ScottK> You'd love updating python-defaults then.
[20:56] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ooo going down
[20:57] <apachelogger> markey: possibly, still not sure about it
[21:06] <dantti> Riddell: I thought there was a patch for that, wasn't it?
[21:10] <ScottK> Rats.
[21:11]  * ScottK wanted to point agateau at my latest blog post, but he's not here.
[21:14]  * bulldog98 managed to get out what patches were included into kdelibs 4.5.2
[21:16] <bulldog98> does someone knows if FAM should be used for kdelibs? cause kdelibs says that FAM and aspell weren’t found
[21:18] <ScottK> bulldog98: It's in Universe.  No.
[21:19] <ScottK> IIRC aspell is on purpose too.
[21:19] <bulldog98> ScottK: ok
[21:25] <debfx> ScottK: middle-click would be much more convenient than shift-click
[21:25] <ScottK> debfx: Not on my laptop.
[21:25] <ScottK> I could see having both though.
[21:25] <Riddell> dantti: what what?
[21:26] <Riddell> dantti: I don't know if it needs patches or not
[21:27] <dantti> Riddell: me neither, yesterday lex79 was asking why weekly is the default check for updates
[21:28] <debfx> ScottK: yeah I guess both wouldn't hurt
[21:28] <ScottK> debfx: I'd suggest chat with agateau about it when he's around.
[21:28] <dantti> Riddell: and btw how will we update kpk ? I can send you that patch but it has the .pngs problem
[21:29] <ScottK> (but don't bother with a patch unless you are going to do the Canonical copyright assignment.)
[22:13] <lex79> a new fresh bug 653274
[22:14] <lex79> if someone is affected, click on "this bug affects you"
[22:14] <lex79> this is a regression from Lucid
[22:50] <bulldog98> Do I have to write into changelog if I added some files to .install?
[22:53] <bulldog98> And if I fixed that errors must I rebuild it completly?
[22:58] <ScottK> bulldog98: Yes and depending how you build it probably.
[22:59] <bulldog98> ScottK: I tryed it via debuild
[22:59] <ScottK> If you've got the partial build available you can add -nc to your dpkg-buildpackage or debuild invocation to avoid clean and recomopling everything.
[22:59] <ScottK> You should talk to apachelogger about his hooks so you can have the pbuilder run fail open so you can have access to the build in progress.
[22:59] <bulldog98> ScottK: ok thanks for that info
[23:00] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[23:02] <bulldog98> ScottK: do you know what this means: E: libkdecore5: symbols-file-contains-current-version-with-debian-revision on symbol _ZN6Sonnet17BackgroundChecker7restoreEP7KConfig@Base
[23:03] <ScottK> bulldog98: Run lintian with -i for a detailed explanation.
[23:03] <ScottK> If that isn't enough, ask again and we can discuss.
[23:04] <bulldog98> ScottK: is debuild using as many treads as possible?
[23:05] <ScottK> No.
[23:05] <ScottK> You need to feed is something like -j $asmanycoresasyouhave
[23:08] <bulldog98> ScottK: Ok that’s really helpfull cause it will speed up everthing (4 times the treads before)
[23:11] <apachelogger> well, then, great
[23:12] <apachelogger> I am going to take a break
[23:12]  * apachelogger is not doing terribly well
[23:12] <apachelogger> o/
[23:18] <Riddell> dantti: yo, what needs updated in kpackagekit?
[23:18] <Riddell> PNG diffs are ok, those can be handled in debian packaging these days
[23:26] <dantti> Riddell: well you could update everything, since kpk is a svn snapshot
[23:26] <dantti> svn diff showed a message instead of a png diff
[23:28] <dantti> There are still a few png with quetion marks but I didn't had time to investigate that, cause sometimes the icon is showed and when you pass your mouse over it it shows the question mark... weird enough
[23:28] <dantti> sounds like a bug in kdelibs
[23:32] <Riddell> ok I'll just take a
[23:32] <Riddell> an svn snapshot
[23:39] <dantti> perfect, if found any issues just poke me
[23:42] <lex79> how to add Affects Ubuntu release notes in a bug?
[23:53] <Riddell> lex79: if it's kubuntu add a "kubuntu" tag and milestone to 10.10
[23:53] <Riddell> there's a rag for release notes which I forget now
[23:53] <Riddell> check with skeat
[23:53] <lex79> I already did in these days, but they can't fix this bug 653274
[23:54] <lex79> so it should go in release note


[00:12] <thefinn93> bkerensa (reading scrollback) maybe door-to-door isn't the best of ideas, but if you give me some flyers I'll go put them up at the nerdy hangouts
[00:12] <thefinn93> free geek, backspace, brainsilo, etc
[00:12] <thefinn93> i'm sure there are more that I can think of
[00:12] <bkerensa> thefinn93: It was said in humor :P
[00:12] <thefinn93> yeah i know
[00:12] <thefinn93> but posters *would* be good
[00:12] <bkerensa> thefinn93: We will surely be doing some flyer distro though
[00:12] <thefinn93> cool
[00:13] <bkerensa> I wanna setup a day next month that me and you hit up Portland
[00:13] <bkerensa> all the cool spots
[00:13] <bkerensa> small cafes, freegeek, PSU, everywhere
[00:13] <bkerensa> :D
[00:13] <thefinn93> alright
[00:14] <thefinn93> we should decide where to go ahead of time
[00:14] <thefinn93> wait for it...
[00:14] <thefinn93> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
[00:14] <thefinn93><PHONE_NUMBER>01122896006.0004aa8024f52a830687f
[00:15] <thefinn93> sign in to edit, bkerensa
[00:21] <thefinn93> http://j.mp/osk2JB
[00:24] <bkerensa> Oh Darn
[00:24] <bkerensa> Hmm
[00:24] <bkerensa> I might have to go do a speech on the 22nd
[00:24] <bkerensa> at Nedspace
[00:24] <bkerensa> :D
[00:24] <bkerensa> Wordpress Portland asked me to come talk about Ubuntu
[00:24] <bkerensa> -.o
[00:24] <thefinn93> cool
[00:56] <thefinn93> this could be interesting
[01:13] <bkerensa> =o
[01:26] <shantorn_> hows the evening
[01:27] <thefinn93> tis good
[01:27] <thefinn93> i got my magstripe reader
[01:27] <thefinn93> and my barcode scanner
[01:27] <shantorn_> what are you up to?
[01:27] <thefinn93> working
[01:27] <shantorn_> great, what do you use them for
[01:27] <thefinn93> and now i'm watching Game of Thrones
[02:58] <el_seano> you should definitely hit up the CS lounge at PSU, and the Linux and Intel Labs
[02:58] <el_seano> oh whoa
[02:58] <el_seano> responding to scrollback
[02:58] <el_seano> my bad :p
[02:59] <thefinn93> lol
[02:59] <thefinn93> i do that all the time
[02:59] <thefinn93> where is that?
[02:59] <thefinn93> like, what intersection?
[03:00] <thefinn93> gtg, i'll put it in the list tho
[03:00] <thefinn93> good idea
[03:41] <el_seano> It's in the basement of the Engineering Building (although technically it's considered part of the Fourth Avenue Building), on 4th and Hall
[03:41] <el_seano> (I think it's Hall.  Maybe Harrison.  Across from all the food carts)
[05:45] <Epitrope> I seem to have been called out on my lurking (like 12 hours ago)... hi!
[05:46] <Epitrope> I met some of you guys at OSCON a few weeks ago
[05:46] <Epitrope> I was one of the volunteers at the Free Geek booth
[07:22]  * el_seano throws FG gang signs.
[07:24] <bkerensa> thefinn93: ping
[15:17] <shantorn> hi all, so what does the bot do?
[15:42] <el_seano> dunno!
[15:42] <el_seano> thefinn93|bot: help
[15:42] <el_seano> .help
[15:42] <el_seano> $help
[16:07] <el_seano> :/
[16:12] <shantorn> i put 11-10 in a virtual and boy its a slug with 1.5gb of ram and 2 cores
[16:13] <shantorn> and for some reason i couldnt turn unity off
[16:17] <el_seano> :(
[16:20] <MarkDude> Unity does not want to be turned off
[16:20] <MarkDude> it is becoming self -aware
[16:20] <MarkDude> It knows better then humans it thinks
[16:21] <el_seano> and so began the Gnome Wars.
[16:21] <MarkDude> btw, the bot stores info- to give to our soon to be robot overlord masters
[16:21] <MarkDude> once Skynet becomes aware
[16:22]  * MarkDude for one salutes our soon to be Supy-bot supervisors
[16:22] <MarkDude> Please dont make me mine salt once humans become slaves
[16:22] <el_seano> psh, mine salt.  They'll get all the salt they need from our precious bodily fluids.
[16:27] <MarkDude> Well they still will need us as slaves
[16:28] <MarkDude> they have been programmed to understand IRONY
[16:28] <MarkDude> just for craps and giggles
[16:28] <el_seano> heh
[16:29] <el_seano> trinary!  I, O, IRONY
[16:29] <MarkDude> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukeHdiszZmE Stop Dave- Im afraid
[16:49] <bkerensa> hello all :)
[16:51] <el_seano> hola
[18:29] <shantorn> hi guys
[21:14] <shantorn> how goes the day?


[00:00] <igc> morning
[00:02] <cjwatson> igc: fast-import is awesome
[00:03] <mwhudson> hello igc
[00:03] <cjwatson> igc: I'm importing an svn archive at the moment with a vendor-branch-like arrangement for upstream, and trying to arrange that the resulting bzr branch has native merge commits for each upstream merge. It's working amazingly well
[00:03] <cjwatson> (james_w gave me the last necessary clue in the form of import-marks)
[00:04] <james_w> cjwatson: I'm glad it's working for you
[00:11] <igc> thanks cjwatson
[00:20] <lifeless> jelmer: ping
[00:20] <jelmer> lifeless, ponggg
[00:20] <lifeless> bug 250480
[00:20] <lifeless> I agree with john that this is critical
[00:20] <lifeless> I don't understand quite where the issue is re non-lhs parents and the error
[00:21] <lifeless> from my analysis I thought that there were two inventories with different values and the same revid
[00:21] <lifeless> which is also known as 'corrupt distributed DB'
[00:21] <lifeless> but you seem to think its something else
[00:21] <lifeless> ?
[00:22] <jelmer> No, I agree with that analysis (for values == "file parent ids")
[00:22] <lifeless> parent ids are not stored in the inventory
[00:23] <lifeless> so I don't understand what you mean when you say you agree :)
[00:24] <jelmer> The actual error suggests that bzr can't find the revision of a file text
[00:24] <jelmer> however, that file text is a ghost in the branch fetched by bzr-svn
[00:25] <lifeless> so there are three revisions bzr will look for
[00:25] <lifeless> (and need)
[00:25] <lifeless> and some N that it will need when fetching IFF the revision is also present
[00:25] <lifeless> the three it needs are left/right/base
[00:26] <lifeless> but another possibility is that the change rev in the inventory in the target repo is actually bogus; its a change that the repository does have and can't get hold of
[00:26] <lifeless> or something along those lines
[00:27] <lifeless> back in 30, got to do some stuff here
[00:27] <lifeless> I guess I'm really saying: lets pin down *exactly* why bzr is asking for that revision, and whether there are *any* differences in data between the repositories
[00:27] <lifeless> *other* than ghosts. Ghosts are ok, different xml-inventories or revision-xml's etc are not.
[00:30] <jelmer> as far as I can tell, the particular revision it was asking for doesn't occur in svn or the svn-based branched *anywhere*
[00:51] <markh> I thought I heard that bzrtools has been incorporated into 1.6 - is that true, or only some parts have been incorporated?
[00:52] <markh> ultimately I'm trying to work out if the windows binary should package it?
[00:53] <Peng_> Um, it hasn't been.
[01:00] <spiv> markh: it hasn't been incorporated, no.  So please do package it.
[01:03] <markh> spiv: ok, thanks
[01:04] <igc> jam: wrt export masking, do you think plugins should use another pattern if they want their magic stuff exported?
[01:05] <igc> jam: I could put the rule in a function that plugins could monkeypatch over to tune it *but* that feels pretty fragile myself
[01:05] <lifeless> I think there are two use cases
[01:06] <lifeless> one is adding arbitrary data (e.g. version-info output) during export
[01:06] <lifeless> the other is masking data that shouldn't be in the user tree (e.g. .bzrignore)
[01:06] <lifeless> I'd *prefer* we fix the latter by just not putting in the users tree
[01:06] <lifeless> the former seems genuinely useful though
[01:07] <igc> lifeless: I'm not changing the former, just generalising the latter so that anything starting with .bzr is not exported
[01:08] <lifeless> igc: yes, I saw the patch.
[01:09] <jelmer> spiv: --rich-root is not an alias at the moment, were you assuming it was?
[01:10] <spiv> jelmer:
[01:10] <spiv> $ bzr init --help | grep -A1 -- "--rich-root "
[01:10] <spiv>     --rich-root         New in 1.0.  Better handling of tree roots.
[01:10] <spiv>                         Incompatible with bzr < 1.0
[01:11] <mwhudson> beuno: awake?
[01:11] <spiv> jelmer: so I wasn't just assuming, I checked :)
[01:12] <jelmer> spiv: that's not an alias, it's a knits-based format
[01:12] <spiv> Ah :(
[01:14] <jelmer> it may be a good idea to get rid of it though, in favour of an alias...
[01:17] <spiv> jelmer: thanks for noticing my mistake
[01:26] <beuno> mwhudson, yeap, evening'
[01:27] <beuno> just got home
[01:27] <lifeless> hi
[01:27] <mwhudson> beuno: hi, thanks for fixing loggerhead :)
[01:28] <beuno> mwhudson, I felt a bit responsible  :)
[01:28] <mwhudson> beuno: so i am a little confused though
[01:29] <mwhudson> beuno: will the loggerhead we're running break with current bzr.dev ?
[01:31] <beuno> mwhudson, no, it works with bzr.dev
[01:32] <beuno> a few commits after b2
[01:32] <mwhudson> beuno: good
[01:32] <beuno> when lifeless's enourmous patch landed it broke
[01:32] <mwhudson> so why did this method change?
[01:32] <mwhudson> oh right
[01:32] <mwhudson> then bzr.dev became more compatible again?
[01:32] <beuno> "versioned files" and the likes
[01:33] <beuno> compatible relative to what?  :)
[01:33] <mwhudson> well
[01:33] <beuno> one of the things I was thinking of, is having that part patched in LH for a few versions, where it tried both methods
[01:33] <mwhudson> wasn't the patch you gave kiko reverting the change that was made to this method?
[01:34]  * mwhudson attempts to make sense
[01:34] <mwhudson> the loggerhead we're running does this:
[01:34] <mwhudson> w = self._branch.repository.weave_store.get_weave(file_id, self._branch.repository.get_transaction())
[01:34] <mwhudson> rather than existing_keys = self._branch.repository.texts.get_parent_map(possible_keys)
[01:34] <beuno> mwhudson, yes, because you're running b2 in code host
[01:35] <lifeless> mwhudson: the former won't work in b3 and abot
[01:35] <mwhudson> because .texts doesn't work with b2
[01:35] <beuno> and it works from b3+
 beuno: will the loggerhead we're running break with current bzr.dev ?
 mwhudson, no, it works with bzr.dev
[01:35] <beuno> mwhudson, ah, my mistake
[01:35] <beuno> it will
[01:35] <mwhudson> is this actually what you meant to say?
[01:35] <beuno> I warned matsubara
[01:35] <beuno> that it would
[01:35] <mwhudson> ah, ok
[01:35] <beuno> I misunderstood
[01:36] <beuno> I just bought a Wii and got distracted   :)
[01:36] <mwhudson> ok, so this isn't ideal but at least i understand what's going on now :)
[01:37] <beuno> yeah, I offered to put together a patch that would probe one, and go to the other if it failed
[01:37] <beuno> but they chose reverting
[01:37] <mwhudson> okidoke
[01:38] <beuno> I still think it makes sense to do that for trunk
[01:38] <beuno> so we can be compatible with older bzr versions
[01:40] <mwhudson> yeah i guess so
[01:43]  * beuno is off to dinner
[02:00] <tsculpt> anybody have trouble saving commit message with emacs as editor?
[02:01] <tsculpt> I get: vc-bzr-registered: IO error reading c:/bzrfun/home/main/.bzr/checkout/dirstate: Permission Denied, when tring to save
[02:02] <tsculpt> bzr 1.5
[02:04] <lifeless> tsculpt: bzr will have an exlusive lock on the dirstate file
[02:04] <lifeless> tsculpt: sounds like some emacs thing is trying to read that file directly (not such a great idea btw :P)
[02:05] <tsculpt> well, just trying to use emacs as commit editor
[02:05] <tsculpt> bzr commit
[02:06] <tsculpt> emacs comes up with the modified listing
[02:06] <tsculpt> I write my message, and try to save, and I get the error.
[02:07] <tsculpt> The vc-bzr-registered part makes me think emacs is doing something with it's built in vcs stuff?
[02:10] <tsculpt> ah, I notice it loads vc-bzr
[02:36] <markh> hrmph - "bzr help commands" will list 94 commands by default on Windows!!
[02:50]  * igc lunch
[05:20] <lifeless> igc: ping
[05:20] <igc> hi lifeless
[05:20] <lifeless> I'd like to chat about .bzrrules some
[05:20] <igc> fire away
[05:20] <lifeless> if you're up for it I could give you a ring
[05:21] <lifeless> or else drop you a mail
[05:21] <lifeless> or IRC works for me too
[05:21] <igc> email might be best today
[05:21] <lifeless> k
[05:22] <lifeless> I will drop some thoughts to you directly
[05:22] <igc> sure
[07:01] <gambler> I read that limbo post from http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsGit and I realised thats a big problem for me
[07:01] <gambler> has anything been done about it in bzr?
[07:02] <luks> what is a big problem for you?
[07:03] <bob2> which part?
[07:03] <bob2> you can alias 'commit' to 'commit --strict' if you don't want to forget to commit new files
[07:03] <gambler> the files that remain in limbo...those in a directory that aren't explicitly added to the repo to track
[07:03] <gambler> bob2, yeah but i prefer to automate alot of that
[07:04] <bob2> as in you want bzr to run 'bzr add .' before every commit?
[07:04] <gambler> i suppose
[07:05] <gambler> would that work?
[07:05] <gambler> <-- not a current bzrer
[07:11] <RAOF> gambler: That would work, but is probably not a good idea.
[07:11] <RAOF> gambler:
[07:12] <RAOF> gambler: In particular it would mean that you wouldn't want to build in your working tree, since subsequent commits would then add the results of the build (plus random autotools files, etc).
[07:12] <luks> you can `bzr ignore` those
[07:12] <bob2> well, you would ignore that .o configure.ac etc
[07:13] <RAOF> bzr doesn't do globbing in .bzrignore, right?
[07:13] <bob2> it does
[07:14] <luks> it supports full filenames, globbing and regexes
[07:14] <bob2> it optionally does res
[07:14] <RAOF> Of course; my shell's being too smart for its own good.
[07:14] <gambler> so bzr add . bzr ignore *.class for my android project and I get automatic adds?
[07:15] <bob2> no
[07:15] <luks> gambler: commit --strict is really a better idea
[07:16] <luks> automating things is nice and all that, but some things are better to review
[07:16] <bob2> hey, you'll get a chance to review in the commit editor ;)
[07:17] <luks> that's way too late, IMO :)
[07:17] <gambler> luks: thats how it starts...then why dont I write some unit tests, and X and Y and Z....and my productivity drops like a rock
[07:17] <spiv> If you do bzr alias commit="commit --strict" then bzr will automatically tell you if there are new files you haven't added or ignored yet.
[07:18] <gambler> ok..maybe ill try that
[07:18] <spiv> At which point you can decide what to do about them, and get on with work.  That satisfies the criterion for "automated" pretty well for me :)
[07:19] <gambler> meh, the problem with all VCS is that it would be nice if all their interfaces were pure method calls, then I could design my workflow around them instead of the other way
[07:19] <gambler> I could script but then you run into problems making it robust
[07:19] <gambler> i script now
[07:19] <spiv> More automatic would probably mean automatically guessing what to do with individual files, which wouldn't make me comfortable.  I can imagine that working fine for some people, though.
[07:20] <spiv> Well, bzr is completely scriptable in Python.
[07:20] <gambler> hmmm good point
[07:20] <spiv> It's even pretty easy to write a plugin to add new commands or extend existing ones.
[07:25] <gambler> im looking at bzrlib now...but im not really a python dude
[07:35] <Ryan52> Is there any way to go through a projects history and change my name everywhere? Right now it's just <email>, but I want it to be 'Name <email>'.
[07:36] <Jc2k> beuno: i hit a bug so i reverted
[07:36] <Jc2k> beuno: its not finding css/imagery again..
[07:37] <luks> Ryan52: no, revisions are immutable
[07:38] <luks> Ryan52: something like that would need to create a completely new branch with different revision IDs
[07:38]  * Ryan52 thinks he would get in trouble for doing that :)
[07:38] <Ryan52> okay, thanks.
[07:42] <gambler> meh too much work
[07:42] <gambler> what is the status of the bzr plugin for eclipse...anyone here using it?
[07:42] <lifeless> it works quite well
[07:43] <lifeless> Verterok: is the main developer
[07:43] <Verterok> gambler: I'm about to release a new build (with bunch of improvements)
[07:44] <gambler> Verterok, will it mind my adding and deleting of files?
[07:45] <Verterok> gambler: it handle moves/deletes/renames
[07:46] <Verterok> gambler: but the delete is equivalent to 'bzr rm --keep' (to avoid removing non-recoverable files)
[07:47] <luks> (all files deleted by `bzr rm` are recoverable)
[07:49] <lifeless> yay firefoxfail
[07:49] <gambler> if you could add in auto-adding of files that would be pure sex
[07:51] <Verterok> luks: but if you have added (not yet committed) bzr rm --force delete them in a non-recoberable way :)
[07:51] <luks> ugh
[07:52] <luks> but why --force?
[07:52] <lifeless> I'm not entirely happy with rm today
[07:53] <lifeless> the basic tension is that unversion and rm are different operations
[07:53] <lifeless> but we only have one command, because people usually want both operations to be undertaken
[07:53] <Verterok> gambler: I don't fully understands the "auto-adding" thing :P
[07:53] <luks> I don't think rm should be handled by a VCS
[07:54] <luks> the old behavior (rm --keep) was my favorite
[07:54] <gambler> Verterok, auto-add any newly created files in the root directory, unless they are in the bzr ignore list.
[07:55] <gambler> Verterok, for renames....improvise :)
[07:55]  * fullermd has rm aliased to rm --keep.
[07:55] <gambler> Verterok, actually you can tie into Eclipse->Refactor-Rename
[07:55] <luks> yeah, me too
[07:56] <Verterok> gambler: mmm, there was a bug/feature request some time ago (java specific), about auto-adding newly reated classes.
[07:56] <gambler> and?
[07:56] <Verterok> gambler: if I can provide an option so it can be enabled/disable, I'll be glad to add this feature
[07:57] <Verterok> but I don't want that behaviour as default
[07:57] <Verterok> gambler: renames are handled by the plugin
[07:57] <Verterok> :)
[07:57] <gambler> i will love you forever
[07:58] <gambler> cant wait to try it. i am an insane refactorer and I need that
[08:00] <Verterok> Verterok: if you find any glitches (or missing feature), please fill a bug so I can track and plan the features for the next milestone :)
[08:00] <Verterok> s/Verterok/gambler/ :P
[08:02] <gambler> np..when will you release your next version
[08:03] <Verterok> gambler: if all keep going as planned, in ~ 20hs :)
[08:03]  * Verterok need to sleep a few hours
[08:04] <gambler> ok...no rush. i've written myself a note to download it
[08:04] <Verterok> I just finished a build from trunk, and testing it ATM
[08:15] <Verterok> all for today, seeya later
[08:15]  * Verterok heads to bed
[08:16] <gambler> c u
[08:31]  * igc dinner
[10:25] <cjwatson> igc: hmm, so having said that I had a really good import (an svn branch for a Debian package which I'm gluing onto the side of the existing bzr branch for upstream) with bzr-fastimport, I realised that all my file-ids are screwed
[10:26] <cjwatson> igc: is there any way to get fast-import to say "this commit has 'from' or 'merge', therefore all files added in this revision should take their file-ids from that other branch"?
[10:35] <igc> cjwatson: hi, I can't stay and chat sorry but a few things ...
[10:36] <igc> how did you generate the stream? By hand?
[10:36] <cjwatson> igc: slightly hacked version of svn-fast-export.py
[10:36] <igc> See the spec. You can certainly say 'get the file-ids' from another branch *assuminh* that branch is also in the stream already
[10:36] <cjwatson> (I stuck in a dictionary of commit identifiers to marks that I wanted to be merged)
[10:37] <cjwatson> hmm, did I miss it? I thought I looked
[10:37] <cjwatson> the other branch is not in the import stream; I'm referencing it by means of import-marks
[10:38] <james_w> fast-import won't look at the those revisions, it will just add the extra parents you request.
[10:38] <james_w> I believe we could extend fast-import to optionally look for them and import the file-ids.
[10:38] <igc> cjwatson: spec is http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-fast-import.html
[10:39] <cjwatson> yeah, I'm reading that
[10:39] <james_w> hi igc
[10:39] <igc> hi james_w
[10:39] <cjwatson> it seems to have a way to reference existing content from elsewhere, but not existing file-ids
[10:40] <igc> cjwatson: so I won't be around but james_w knows the fastimport code pretty well and it's pretty hackable imo
[10:40] <cjwatson> yeah, I certainly don't mind hacking it (and already have done), but wanted to know if this was in place already
[10:40] <cjwatson> if it's not, I can always beat it up until it is
[10:41] <cjwatson> it does seem like it's what you'd want to be the default behaviour when 'merge' commands are present in the stream though
[10:42] <james_w> cjwatson: for a quick hack, around line 513 of processors/generic_processor.py could be extended to also look at all the revision ids listed in the marks
[10:43] <james_w> _gen_file_ids_cache
[10:44] <cjwatson> hmm, right, might have to do something interesting in the case where you have file added in svn branch, then deleted and copied-over-the-top
[10:44] <cjwatson> since then there'll be multiple file-ids to choose from for a given path
[10:44] <james_w> yeah, the cache should actually be replaced with something else as I understand it
[10:45] <lifeless> personally; I'd just let bzr do all the heavy lifting
[10:45] <james_w> however, I think the replacement would actually be harder for you to hack to get what you want
[10:45] <james_w> hey lifeless
[10:45] <lifeless> but apparently there were performance implications in doing that
[10:45] <cjwatson> I have the feeling I want to special-case it at the cache user end, since I only want this check in the cases of certain commits
[10:46] <james_w> bzr_file_id_and_new
[10:46] <cjwatson> like bzr_file_id_and_new(self, path, sourcerev=None)
[10:46] <cjwatson> snap :)
[10:49] <nazgjunk> hi, do ignore files stack? I seem to have a global ignore file somewhere, can I assume that it'll still be checked when I add one to the branch I'm working in?
[10:49] <james_w> nazgjunk: ~/.bazaar/ignore, and yes
[10:50] <nazgjunk> thanks
[10:57] <lifeless> right
[10:57] <lifeless> bug fixed
[10:57] <lifeless> -> off
[10:59] <Jc2k> ahh that reminds me
[10:59]  * Jc2k goes to read gnome-bzr log
[12:46] <lifeless> igc: got busy on a bug; I'll try to mail you tomorrow; or perhaps voice would work better then; something
[12:46] <lifeless> gnight all
[12:46] <igc> sure lifeless; night
[15:47] <pfctdayelise> hi, I'm trying to use bzr on a shared webhost. 'python' -> 2.3.4, which has the bz2 module, but there is also 'python2.4' which does not.
[15:47] <pfctdayelise> can I get bzr to use python 2.3? or should i try to install the bz2 module?
[15:48] <dennda> Hi. How can I fix this? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/80707/
[15:48] <dennda> Doesn't work with bzr push lp:~dennda/memaker/experimental either
[15:48] <dato> pfctdayelise: bzr will definitely not work with python 2.3
[15:49] <andrea-bs> dennda: bzr launchpad-login "your-launchpad-id"
[15:49] <luks> dennda: bzr launchpad-login <your-username>
[15:50] <luks> or just use a ssh+bzr url directly
[15:50] <luks> bzr+ssh I mean
[15:53] <mlh> I suppose people have read http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/DarcsEvaluation
[15:53] <mlh> ?  haskell is moving away from darcs  - interesting discussion of git vs hg vs bzr
[15:55] <jelmer> mlh, that page only lists git and mercurial as serious contenders
[15:56] <jelmer> do you know why that is?
[15:57] <luks> weird how 'Cherry-picking isn't very "native" to the data model' is a disadvantage of bzr, but not hg and git
[16:04] <mlh> jelmer: that's what one line says, but the rest of the page seems to contradict it
[16:04] <mlh> so .. not clear
[16:05]  * mlh sleeps
[16:10] <gour> have you seen  http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/DarcsEvaluation  ?
[16:11] <gour> new potential customer...
[16:12] <james_w> heh :-)
[16:14] <gour> ghc is not so small project and has (potential) influence on the whole haskell community
[16:15] <arnarl> what are the commands for resetting/changing related branches (as listed in bzr info)
[16:17] <arnarl> is it only available in locations.conf?
[16:17] <james_w> arnarl: you can either edit ~/.bazaar/locations.conf, or you can use --remember on the appropriate commands
[16:18] <james_w> so "pull --remember" will change the parent branch, "merge --remember" will change the submit branch
[16:18] <arnarl> james_w: thnx! :-)
[17:21] <jam> chadmiller: Ping, would you like to discuss the new issue privately?
[17:21] <chadmiller> Sure.
[18:59] <beuno> jelmer, around?
[19:27] <evanton> hello, how can one force bzr to make a file executable?
[19:28] <luks> chmod a+x file
[19:28] <evanton> luks: let me explain
[19:28] <evanton> I have to assume somebody submits a text file containing a python script from windows
[19:29] <evanton> when I check out the branch, that file has 644 permission
[19:30] <evanton> I would like it to have 755 instead, so there must be probably a way to tell bzr that it shall set certain permissions during a commit
[19:30] <luks> evanton: on windows it's more complicated, since bzr itself doesn't support it
[19:30] <luks> there is a plugin that can be used to swith the executable flag on windows
[19:31] <luks> https://launchpad.net/bzr-x-bit
[19:31] <evanton> do you think that chmodding the file in linux and commiting it into the branch from there instead would work?
[19:31] <luks> evanton: of course
[19:32] <evanton> thank you
[19:51] <rexbron> hey would any of the bzr-svn guys be able to look at bug 253376
[19:57] <jelmer> rexbron: just replied
[19:59] <rexbron> jelmer: As I mentioned, if you remove the dir your checking into and re-run the command, it will pick up where it left off. So it's not that serious. Perhaps it is worth a mention on the bzr-svn known issues section
[20:06] <jelmer> rexbron, I think it's worth mentioning, but rather in the bzr docs than in bzr-svn since neither the bug nor the workaround are specific to bzr-svn.
[20:06] <rexbron> ok
[20:32] <beuno> jelmer, I'm working on a branch to fix loggerhead's setup, can you take a look at it and see if you need anything changed for Debian?
[20:33] <beuno> lp:~beuno/loggerhead/fix_setup
[20:34] <jelmer> beuno, sure, give me a few minutes
[20:34] <beuno> jelmer, thanks  :)
[21:29] <theuiguy> Is there any kind of plugin for bzr that allows you to modify history? Specifically, to change email/names of committers?
[21:29] <theuiguy> Or perhaps some way to modify check in dates?
[21:30] <NfNitLoop> theuiguy: not to my knowledge...  modifying history is not really possible in a distributed system.
[21:30] <NfNitLoop> You could modify *your* history, but then you don't sync up w/ everyone else.
[21:30] <NfNitLoop> which could cause problems.
[21:30] <theuiguy> NfNitLoop: I see your point... in this particular case, there's only one branch right now
[21:31] <NfNitLoop> ah.  Well then you could in theory do it, but my guess is that nobody has bothered to write/distribute code to do so for the above reasons.
[21:32] <james_w> theuiguy: there's nothing specifically for it
[21:32] <james_w> there's two things which could, but don't yet, bzr-rebase and fast-export/fast-import
[21:32] <theuiguy> How about a plugin to merge commits?
[21:33] <james_w> that would probably be the same tool
[21:33] <theuiguy> james_w: I was thinking bzr-rebase might do something like it, but I thought you needed to do it before your commit
[21:34] <james_w> interactive rebase can do the latter, I don't know if that's available yet though
[21:36] <theuiguy> Perhaps you could give me an alternative solution -- I'm told I can open source some code, but need to scrub email addresses that expose internal server names.
[21:36] <theuiguy> It already in bzr, with a relatively short revision history -- I think around 25 revisions.
[21:37] <theuiguy> I suppose I could just create a new branch with the latest code and go from there, but it's a shame to lose the history
[21:39] <james_w> theuiguy: ok, to change that I would suggest bzr-fast-export and bzr-fastimport.
[21:39] <james_w> you can export to a text file, sed the file to clean up the names as you wish, and then import again
[21:39] <james_w> it should work nicely
[21:40] <james_w> but the new branch will have absolutely no relation to the old one in bzr's eyes
[21:40] <james_w> it sounds like that shouldn't be a problem for you though
[21:41] <theuiguy> james_w:  no, that sounds like it would work... just cleaning up the email addresses would be great.
[21:41] <theuiguy> Thanks!
[21:54] <mathiaz> Hi - I'm using the loom plugin to manage one my packaging branch. The HOWTO outlines how-to combine a thread (case where the code has been merged upstream), but I don't get how to delete a thread (the code is no longer relevant because upstream fixed it differently). How do I delete a thread ?
[21:55] <james_w> hey mathiaz
[21:55] <mathiaz> If I try to combine a thread, it still shows up in the thread above
[21:55] <mathiaz> james_w: Hi ! :)
[21:55] <james_w> I believe that's the same thing
[21:56] <james_w> you mean the code that you want to get rid of is still in the thread above?
[21:56] <mathiaz> james_w: I'm working on an openldap merge and the debian maintainer fixed a bug using a different patch
[21:56] <mathiaz> james_w: yes
[21:56] <lifeless> mathiaz: you un merge it
[21:56] <lifeless> mathiaz: go to the thread above and do bzr merge -r -1..thread:
[21:56] <lifeless> erm no
[21:56] <lifeless> go to the thread you want to cancel
[21:56] <lifeless> then do that
[21:57] <mathiaz> lifeless: ok - good to know for the next time. As of now, I've already combine the thread
[21:57] <mathiaz> lifeless: so I guess I'll have to fix it manually
[21:58] <james_w> you can resurrect the thread I assume
[21:58] <james_w> hey lifeless
[21:58] <mathiaz> also pushing the branch to LP doesn't work
[21:59] <mathiaz> I get the following message: http://paste.ubuntu.com/32335/
[21:59] <lifeless> hi james_w
[22:00] <james_w> mathiaz: I think that's fixed if you update your loom plugin to a newer version
[22:00] <mathiaz> james_w: I just did that
[22:00] <mathiaz> james_w: that's when I started to see that message
[22:02] <mathiaz> I'm at revision 86 for the loom pluging
[22:05] <chadmiller> Hi all.  A bzr user in my group complains that "annotate" is much slower in 1.6b4 than in 1.5.  For his example file it goes from 19 sec to 645 sec.
[22:05] <AmanicA> which branch format?
[22:05] <AmanicA>  (bzr info)
[22:10] <lifeless> ah damn I knew I'd forgotten something; get_matching_blocks acceleration
[22:10] <lifeless> chadmiller: I'll whip up a patch today
[22:10] <chadmiller> lifeless: Cool.  Thanks!
[22:11] <rexbron> hey jelmer, I have a new problem related to the bug you looked at earlier
[22:11] <lifeless> chadmiller: make sure he is running with the C extensions though
[22:12] <lifeless> chadmiller: that will still matter even after my patch
[22:12] <chadmiller> Okay.  I will.
[22:14] <mwhudson> mornings
[22:14] <beuno> goooooooood mornin' mwhudson
[22:15] <thumper> beuno: morning
[22:15] <thumper> beuno: I've been trying to marry the gnome-loggerhead with the new trunk
[22:15] <beuno> hey thumper
[22:15] <beuno> oh, cool, I was going to ping you about that
[22:15] <thumper> beuno: with limited success
[22:16] <cszikszoy> does anyone know what this error means: bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "Host empty in: http://:8080/"
[22:16] <beuno> thumper, that's odd
[22:16] <thumper> beuno: I might push what I have and get you to look where it's screwing up
[22:16] <thumper> beuno: we have mixed css
[22:16] <cszikszoy> or possibly how to fix it?
[22:16] <beuno> thumper, have you changes anything to it, or is it what I originally pushed?
[22:17] <thumper> beuno: and I was trying to fit some loggerhead tabs into the gnome tab area
[22:17] <james_w> cszikszoy: hi, what command did you run to get that error?
[22:17] <thumper> beuno: there are changes
[22:17] <thumper> beuno: but fairly limited
[22:17] <beuno> thumper, ah, ok. If you can push or give me access to, I can resolve and re-push
[22:17] <cszikszoy> bzr branch lp:do-plugins
[22:18] <james_w> mathiaz: how are you finding using loom for packaging?
[22:18] <thumper> beuno: I'll actually spend some time writing up what has changed as ISTR there was some heading hackery
[22:18] <james_w> cszikszoy: oh, that's odd
[22:18] <thumper> beuno: so you might get something in the next 8 hours
[22:18] <thumper> beuno: but not too soon
[22:19] <lifeless> cszikszoy: thats very strange
[22:19] <mathiaz> james_w: well - up to now, I think it's ok - I classify it as yet-another-patch-system - but I like the merge help
[22:19] <cszikszoy> i thought so too :)
[22:19] <lifeless> cszikszoy: it means there is no hosy
[22:19] <lifeless> *host*
[22:19] <mathiaz> james_w: there are still some rough edges (such as unable to push to lp)
[22:19] <beuno> thumper, cool.  Another thing you may want to try, is start from the gnome branch I pushed with the new theme, and merge into that one
[22:19] <mathiaz> james_w: and I've just figured out how to delete a patch rather than combine it
[22:20] <james_w> mathiaz: that's true, I guess it is another patch system, but hopefully a better one.
[22:20] <mathiaz> james_w: hopefully there will such a command added to the loom plugin soon
[22:20]  * thumper nods to what beuno says
[22:20] <frej> hmm, i'm having problems with converting a cvs repo (cvsps) with filenames in latin1 encoding :/
[22:20] <james_w> mathiaz: would you file a bug for that command?
[22:20] <mathiaz> james_w: it seems that the difference comes with the merging support
[22:20] <frej> is this supported in any wya?
[22:20] <james_w> mathiaz: also, "bzr -Derror push" would be useful to find out why you can't push.
[22:20] <lifeless> cszikszoy: cszikszoy it works for me
[22:21] <lifeless> cszikszoy: could you file a bug please, with a transcript? file it on launchpad-bazaar
[22:21] <mathiaz> james_w: there aren't many patch system that come with a proper merge support
[22:22] <beuno> sounds like a proxy tweaking things, doesn't it?  8080 port seems fishy
[22:22] <cszikszoy> i'm not behind any proxy that I know of
[22:22] <cszikszoy> unless my isp blocks it
[22:22] <cszikszoy> i'm in Germany, if it somehow matters
[22:22] <cszikszoy> but i didn't think that it would
[22:23] <james_w> mathiaz: yeah, hopefully it's a killer feature
[22:26] <cszikszoy> i'll file a bug report, as for a transcript, what would be helpful to include?
[22:27] <beuno> cszikszoy, can you re-run the command, and add  -Dhpss
[22:27] <beuno> then, file the bug, attaching your  ~/.bzr.log   file
[22:30] <cszikszoy> will do, thanks
[22:40] <cszikszoy> n
[22:42] <lifeless> I swear
[22:42] <lifeless> time to update my fail filters
[22:45] <jelmer> lifeless: 'morning
[22:46] <lifeless> hi jelmer
[22:46] <jelmer> lifeless: wrt backslashes - bzr will error out when trying to add a file with a backslash in the name
[22:46] <lifeless> yes
[22:46] <lifeless> this is deliberate
[22:46] <lifeless> we also error on 0x01
[22:47] <lifeless> and many other characters
[22:47] <jelmer> you mention encoding - what sort of encoding?
[22:47] <jelmer> (bug 81844)
[22:47] <lifeless> you could urlescape it
[22:47] <lifeless> (for instance)
[22:48] <jelmer> lifeless: that means an opportunity for paths to clash
[22:49] <jelmer> also, it means having to determine which paths were meant to be escaped when pushing back into svn
[22:49] <jelmer> bzr-svn currently just checks for backslashes and raises an exception if it encounters them
[22:49] <jelmer> which works pretty well, except that there are a few rare repositories out there that contain backslashes (the lintian one, for example)
[22:54] <jelmer> lifeless: is there any reason to not support \ other than the fact it means it won't be possible to create a working tree on Windows?
[22:55] <lifeless> so there are two groups of characters that we don't support: Those easy to support but undesirable; and those hard to support
[22:55] <lifeless> things that won't go into xml cleanly, or are separate characters for our disk formats makeup thelatter group
[22:56] <lifeless> For the former group, its mainly that they aren't really consistent with bring a sccs
[22:56] <lifeless> they're more 'be a unix file system'
[22:57] <lifeless> dunno
[22:57] <lifeless> I don't really have a strong opinion
[22:59] <james_w> http://technomancy.us/113
[23:01] <lifeless> cool
[23:05] <lifeless> jelmer: does the file id limit matter to you as well ( the \\ is banned in ids because it would break on windows with early stores)
[23:07] <jelmer> lifeless: no, file ids are generated using a checksum if they contain certain characters or exceed a certain limit
[23:08] <lifeless> ok
[23:09] <jelmer> lifeless: the only two characters in filenames I'm aware of that are problematic when importing from svn are \ and newline
[23:54] <lifeless> jml: bit strange to close 124570 if I can't actually use it yet...