[06:38] <waffl3x> I am trying to figure out the best way to set up pulseaudio to work with jackaudio, I was previously using QJackCtl to run scripts on startup, but it's unreliable, I am thinking of just using default.pa to achieve what I need now, any suggestions? I also am having trouble understanding the default config in default.pa and the docs don't help very much
[08:57] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) ubuntu studio sets up bridge between pulse and jack automatically. You can setup tour jack interface from studio control gui
[08:58] <MauroGaspari[m]> I have been using ubuntu studio as daily driver on desktop and laptop for a while now. Everything works out of the box once you do initial setup.
[09:01] <waffl3x> hmm, I actually hadn't realized this was a different distro, I was pointed here from #ubuntu
[09:02] <waffl3x> while it would be nice to have everything work out of the box my system has other priorities, audio is second to them so I don't think I will use ubuntu studio
[09:13] <MauroGaspari[m]> You can do that really on any ubuntu flavor
[09:13] <MauroGaspari[m]> Ubuntu studio works out of the box but it is quite easy to apply the same to any ubuntu. Let me link a tutorial i wrote about that
[09:14] <MauroGaspari[m]> https://frontpagelinux.com/tutorials/easily-install-jack-audio-with-ubuntu-studio-installer/
[09:18] <waffl3x> I imagine it will be pretty useful, ill read through it for sure
[09:19] <waffl3x> would you happen to know why default.pa refuses to load my module-jack-source s
[09:31] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) what i know is that jack and jack/pulse bridges done by hand are very complex to get up and running and not very well documented. I know it does not help  much. But you will just be able to skip all the trouble by using the studio installer tools.
[09:31] <MauroGaspari[m]> Just make sure that, if you have a separate boot partition,  you have enough space for another kernel  as the studio tools will install lowlatency kernel.
[09:34] <waffl3x> thats good to know actually as I was planning on installing another kernel
[09:46] <waffl3x> do you happen to have a guide to setting up the audio filters you are using in that guide MauroGaspari[m] ? I am used to reaplugs and the calf ones are considerably more complex
[10:43] <rgh> waffl3x: as the calf plugins are being removed from the iso as they are a cause of trouble, better find other processing filters
[10:44] <rgh> LSP plugins are of high quality, but IMHO a bit involved to set up.
[10:45] <waffl3x> yeah calf seemed really jank to me so im not shocked
[10:45] <waffl3x> which version of the LSP plugins do you suggest?
[10:45] <waffl3x> thats a general question too I suppose
[10:45] <waffl3x> oh to be clear I mean like, VST versus LV2 versus whatever else there is
[10:45] <rgh> On Linux always lv2
[10:46] <waffl3x> sounds good
[10:46] <rgh> If the host has lv2 support, use that .
[10:47] <waffl3x> if I dont want to use carla, how would I go about hosting the plugins?
[10:48] <rgh> Ardour?
[10:48] <rgh> Use carla. It's the best .
[10:48] <rgh> There's Element and Synthpod, but afaik only carla is supported in ustudio
[10:48] <waffl3x> mm, I had some trouble with carla the first time I was setting stuff up
[10:48] <waffl3x> I think the issues were mainly with ladish though
[10:49] <rgh> Oh, don't use ladish
[10:49] <rgh> Obsolete
[10:49] <waffl3x> good to know
[10:49] <rgh> Nsm. New Session Managed
[10:49] <rgh> Manager
[10:49] <waffl3x> it certainly felt obsolete
[10:50] <rgh> Or use non session manager if that's available. New Session Manager is the way forward though.
[10:50] <waffl3x> I was under the impression carla used ladish like the other kxstudio applications
[10:51] <waffl3x> does it just use NSM by default and I was mistaken?
[10:51] <waffl3x> come to think of it, maybe thats what was causing the problems was using both at the same time
[10:51] <waffl3x> and I hadnt realized it
[10:51] <rgh> Oh ...
[10:51] <waffl3x> because I was using uhh, catia/claudia as well
[10:51] <rgh> Oh no
[10:52] <waffl3x> that explains a lot honestly, it was a huge headache
[10:53] <rgh> I haven't used session managers really .
[10:53] <rgh> I'm about to though, for the Libre Music Challenge \o/
[10:53] <waffl3x> whats that?
[10:54] <rgh> It's awesome
[10:54] <rgh> Hold on
[10:55] <rgh> https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=22105
[10:56] <waffl3x> neat
[10:56] <waffl3x> I imagine thats going to prove the capabilities of linux audio dev
[11:00] <rgh> That's part of the evil plan behind it.
[11:01] <rgh> Also, to stop people from endlessly configuring their system and just make a damn track :-P
[11:02] <rgh> Also, since there's scoring/voting involved, you are sure your music is going to be listened to.
[11:03] <rgh> And now. I gotta deliver mail in the rain/storm.
[11:04] <rgh> Thanks to covid-19 I'm no longer a full time musician. Huzzah.
[11:22] <waffl3x> yeah I can imagine people are tempted to endlessly config, I certainly feel like thats what I'm doing
[11:23] <waffl3x> I just spent about 20 minutes following this https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=44862
[11:23] <waffl3x> only to realize that pulseaudio isnt going to be handling that if I'm using jack
[11:23] <waffl3x> it also occurred to me that I maybe shouldnt have pulse be real time, but im not actually certain
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) sorry i got busy with work. Luckily [rgh](https://matrix.to/#/@rghvdberg:matrix.org) rgh already replied all your questions.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> My advice is if you are not sure and want to see how studio installer and/or ubuntu studio work, install ubintu studio groovy gorilla on a separate ssd or computer. Take it for a spin and see how easy it is.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> I am going to publish a few nore articles and tutorials as soon as groovy gorilla is released. Including small script to autostart carla and minimize it on login.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> * [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) sorry i got busy with work. Luckily [rgh](https://matrix.to/#/@rghvdberg:matrix.org) rgh already replied all your questions.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> My advice is if you are not sure and want to see how studio installer and/or ubuntu studio work, install ubuntu studio groovy gorilla on a separate ssd or computer. Take it for a spin and see how easy it is.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> I am going to publish a few more articles and tutorials as soon as groovy gorilla is released. Including small script to autostart carla and minimize it on login.
[11:26] <waffl3x> yeah no worries, I think I have it all figured out now anyway
[11:26] <waffl3x> I'll be looking forward to guides for setting up compressor and gate
[11:27] <waffl3x> I had a hard enough time with reacomp and it was massively simple
[11:27] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) if you want to laugh a bit at my misadventures in linux audio, and maybe quickly see how pulseaudio or jack can help you, i have a wrap up article here, with links to both pulse and jack tutorials.
[11:27] <MauroGaspari[m]> What a huge rabbit hole!
[11:27] <MauroGaspari[m]> https://frontpagelinux.com/articles/pulseaudio-vs-jack-adventures-in-linux-audio/
[11:29] <waffl3x> my main issue turned out to be I had a second default.pa file which is why my changes werent applying (the weird thing is it looked like they were applying some of the time but in reality it was probably just bugging out a little)
[11:29] <waffl3x> if I knew about ubuntu studio a few days ago I woulda probably picked it up tho
[11:31] <waffl3x> does ubuntu studio just have really good defaults for buffer size and periods
[11:31] <waffl3x> or do you have to set those up yourself too
[11:32] <waffl3x> ah yeah I got to the section on your guide
[11:32] <waffl3x> guess ill just have to do some more research
[11:36] <waffl3x> I have a alc1220 I believe
[11:38] <waffl3x> hmmm, maybe im just stuck with mediocre quality, I'm seeing a few threads of people with problems
[11:56] <waffl3x> I seem to have been able to fix my xrun problem by increasing to 3 periods
[11:57] <waffl3x> just kidding just got one but im suspecting it might have to do with CPU load and frequency not scaling in time
[12:04] <MauroGaspari[m]> Overall to my audionoob surprise,  it seems that any cheap-ish audio usb intrlerface beats any high end motherboard's integrated audio.
[12:06] <MauroGaspari[m]> Usb interfaces will need 3 period, and then you can set latency to 256, see if woeks well, eventually try and reduce it
[12:34] <kaeru> waffl3x: yeah that has been my experience as well with onboard, 256 buffers 2 periods was about as low as I can get, 512 and 2, and you would have no xruns
[12:35] <waffl3x> I wish that was the case for me, I get xruns every 6 minutes at 1024 and 2
[12:35] <waffl3x> well
[12:35] <waffl3x> as far as I could tell it gives me xruns regardless
[12:35] <waffl3x> also if it tried to run in 6 channel mode (default) it would just stutter and stop working at all
[12:35] <waffl3x> right now im dealing with something even more bizarre though
[12:36] <waffl3x> with jack dbus enabled QJackCtl loses the ability to stop the server
[12:37] <waffl3x> ok its working again
[12:37] <kaeru> have not seen that issue with  ubuntustudio for past few ubuntu releases
[12:37] <waffl3x> idk man
[12:38] <waffl3x> this program is turbojank
[12:38] <waffl3x> but the good news is when I dont have to keep restarting it it will be fine
[12:38] <kaeru> studio-controls
[12:38] <waffl3x> the bizarre thing was that QJackCtl seemed to think it was shutting off the server despite not doing so
[12:38] <waffl3x> yeah im feeling like
[12:38] <waffl3x> I should just use the distro
[12:39] <waffl3x> whats the word on sample rate
[12:40] <kaeru> I have Motu M4 and it's OK at 128 buffers and 2 periods for me
[12:41] <waffl3x> nah I mean sample rate
[12:41] <kaeru> 48k
[12:43] <waffl3x> thinking about it
[12:43] <waffl3x> I probably would have issues on ubuntu studio as well just because of my onboard card
[12:58] <MauroGaspari[m]> I think test on a fresh install are better. If you followed previous scripts or installs that modified some comfiguration files, that could clash with studio controls
[12:58] <waffl3x> its a pretty fresh install
[12:59] <waffl3x> I know pretty much everything I have done
[14:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> waffl3x: So, the question is, are you complaining or do you have an actual support question?
[14:23] <Eickmeyer[m]> This entire discussion looks like it didn't belong here. #ubuntustudio-offtopic is for general discussion, not this channel.
[14:52] <OvenWerks> The backscroll goes back to 2330 and then goes all night :)
[14:53] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: studio-controls will set up jack and pulse for you.
[14:53] <OvenWerks> qjackctl will appear to be unable to stop jack if some other application started it as jackd rather than jackdbus
[14:54] <OvenWerks> basically the only application that can stop jackd is the one that started it.
[14:54] <OvenWerks>  That is a limitation of jackd
[14:55] <OvenWerks> if you have ever used cadence (it sounds like you have) then removing it is difficult. It does add is own pulse config... and in fact recreates it every time it starts
[14:56] <OvenWerks> I am guessing they missed all of that ;)
[15:06] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: If you have ever use cadence, it will A) auto start itself at session start B) create a new pulse config file each time as well
[15:07] <OvenWerks> that is why we don't suport cadence. It is not an easy apt remove, one has to find it's extra files it has installed and remove them
[15:08] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: also, many applications will auto start jackd if it is not running when you start that application.
[15:09] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: if this happens, qjackctl will not be able to stop that instance of jackd... it will require a kill or killall -9
[15:10] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: I have found the best thing is to have jackdbus start at session start so that this never happens
[15:11] <OvenWerks> though it is also possible to chmod -x jackd I guess.
[15:13] <OvenWerks> it is also possible to add JACK_NO_START_SERVER to your environment.
[15:14] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: ^^^ perhaps we should do so by default
[15:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: That's possible (not this release). Would that get stuck in /etc/environment.d somewhere?
[15:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> Actually, I already know the answer is yes.
[15:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> We'll talk in -devel about this.
[15:27] <rgh> waffl3x: I never had good audio performance with onboard gear
[15:27] <rgh> I just don't even try any more
[15:28] <rgh> I had a potato laptop, added a behringer USB mixer (Xenyx 1404 USB) , bam .. running (pretty) low latency without xrun
[15:30] <rgh> OvenWerks: people said they prefer Cadence over Studio Controls because they could easily switch on/off services and also decide what to auto-run on start-up
[15:30] <rgh> any comments on that ?
[15:31] <rgh> besides : why the hell would you want to do that ? (that's what I think)
[15:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> rgh: Services are easy to turn-off using Studio Controls. With Pulse, for instance, you just need to remove all bridges and hit "Apply" and it's done; no more PulseAudio.
[15:34] <rgh> that's not easy
[15:34] <rgh> that's not a [x]
[15:34] <rgh> ^^^ awesome ascii art for a tick box
[15:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> rgh: I think he's working on a checkbox.
[15:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Probably for next version.
[15:35] <rgh> cool
[15:35] <rgh> well cool for the people who need that :-)
[15:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Would still require the "apply" button, which isn't beyond imagination.
[15:39] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWerks: I used both and Studio Controls wins for me. It is very easy to understand, well presented, and has easy icons to access carla, qasmixer, jack controls. I really think it is the best especially for new users. I did not feel lost when I started with Studio Controls.
[16:20] <kaeru> +1 on Studio Controls having everything I need and is straightforward
[16:27] <kaeru> MauroGaspari[m]: I wrote a rather lengthy article with screenshots https://medium.com/@kaerumy/audio-and-midi-controller-on-ubuntu-linux-1058e00bc7d0
[16:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> kaeru: Such discussion belongs in #ubuntustudio-offtopic if you wouldn't mind. :)
[16:30] <kaeru> aah ok, I didn't know about that channel
[16:30] <Eickmeyer[m]> kaeru: ubuntustudio.org/community tells about it.
[16:30] <kaeru> cool, sorry for the noise
[18:02] <sakrecoer[m]> oh no! calf is going away from the iso? haha! too bad if they cause trouble. 😞 i understand but i will miss them (as in investigate how to install them myself 😅) the compressor, reverb, mono-synth... 💥 i think the only one I've never used is the vocoder, because i don't manage to wrap my head around it.
[18:04] <sakrecoer[m]> multi-band compressor is so tasty... limiter so powerful!
[20:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> 徒 𝖘𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔 セット🕸🏴: We do have dragonfly-reverb, the LSP plugins, and more that might even be better. Calf is still in the repos, though.
[21:01] <OvenWerks> rgh: I have no problem with people using Cadence at all. The big thing that Cadence did not take care of was those horrible USB mic things.
[21:02] <OvenWerks> rgh: studio-controls makes using a USB mic pretty much automatic
[21:03] <OvenWerks> rgh: it is on my list (probably after a Cadence refresh) to make studio-controls able to work with cadence either when Cadence is turned off or even if it has started jack.
[21:05] <OvenWerks> rgh however, I know falktx considers Cadence in it's current form pretty much depricated. It is on his list for a refresh, I would prefer to see where things are after that.
[21:05] <OvenWerks> rgh: of course pipewire will change the whole mess as well.
[21:10] <OvenWerks> rgh: about your comment on auto-runing things. I am not sure what you mean. studio controls does autorun jack, a2jmidid, zita-ajbridge, pulse modules and jack_connect already, do mean more than that? What services would you like to easily switch on and off?
[21:15] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer[m]: calf is substandard in almost anyway that you look at it. WHile it is still in the repo, we do not want budding engineers to get used to the way calf sounds as somehow correct. Many people who use ubuntustudio for sound production have never used even a FOH mixer for some sort of reference as to how things work. We want ubuntustudio to have the best packages, Calf does not meet that
[21:15] <OvenWerks> requirement.
[21:16] <OvenWerks> (the srcews don't even work to remove the rackmounted modules  ;)


[09:22] <penguin42> hmm pretty empty
[09:23] <penguin42> I've got a 6 minute hang during edgy boot - is there anything I can do to get the boot process to spit out any diags?
[09:23] <penguin42> (Yes minute!)
[09:24] <makx> remove quiet from grub boot args
[09:24] <makx> also splash
[09:25] <penguin42> already done that ; it shows nothing during the pause that happens just after detecting a usb flash card reader and between starting RAID - and it still happens if I remove the flash card reader
[09:26] <penguin42> I've got a sysrq-t in the bug report I filed: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/68888
[09:27] <makx> hmm seems more like an mdadm bug than a kernel one
[09:27] <makx> but you might want to ask on a week day on #ubuntu-kernel
[09:28] <makx> also you could add a set -x to the mdadm boot script and see what's taking so much time
[09:29] <penguin42> makx: I'm confused how far the boot has got at that point - am I out of initrd at that point?
[09:29] <makx> can't tell from your snipps
[09:30] <makx> if you see a call to init before the pause yes
[09:31] <makx> Running /scripts/init-bottom is the last message from initramfs
[09:34] <penguin42> I'm not sure I do - but let me see what I've got in the logs
[09:38] <penguin42> makx: I don't see anything like that in the /var/log/messages - and that trace still shows a lot of busybox calls which make me wonder if its still in the initrd
[09:44] <makx> the messages from the initramfs don't land in /var/log/messages
[09:44] <makx> what i told you can see it on boot :)
[09:44] <penguin42> yeh but only if I'm quick and watch very carefully!
[09:45] <penguin42> but what about the fact that busybox is still running - that surely sounds like it is the initrd?
[09:48] <makx> busybox is not running it's not a damon, what do you mean?
[09:48] <makx> s/damon/daemon/
[09:49] <penguin42> makx: Look at my sysrq-t trace - it shows some busybox processes running
[09:49] <penguin42> I assume that busybox is used by the initrd but nothing else?
[09:49] <makx> yes it's inside
[09:50] <penguin42> ok, are there any good ways of debugging a bad initrd or is it just a case of scattering echo's around the scripts?
[09:51] <makx> you should have an mdadm script in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/ just add an set -x and see what is the troubeling cmd
[09:52] <makx> then the next time you can boot with break=top and try to issue the same to double check..
[09:53] <makx> ah when you change that mdadm script don't forget to rebuild initramfs with update-initramfs -u
[09:53] <penguin42> ok, I think I can see it possibly - there is a thing called 'slumber' in local-top/md and its something to do with sleeping but I can't quit esee what its trying to do
[09:55] <penguin42> makx: Can you see that script - can you see htf it isn't supposed to wait for a few minutes?
[09:56] <makx> the slumber is waiting for your devices to appear afais
[09:56] <penguin42> ok - but how does it get out of that loop when it does? I can't see anything that breaks out of the while
[09:56] <makx> are you booting with lilo?
[09:56] <penguin42> no
[09:56] <makx> ok
[09:58] <makx> +while [ "$configureduuids" ]
[09:58] <makx> this seems the wrong way
[09:59] <penguin42> yeh there is something then which removes the uuid's if it found it
[10:00] <penguin42> and that script provides *no* feedback for something that could wait for 10 minutes
[10:01] <makx> i need sleep, pls add feedback to bug report :)
[10:01] <makx> only a guest here..
[10:01] <penguin42> hey thanks :-)
[10:02] <penguin42> hmm I think I know why this happens - that script assumes the UUID= is the last thing on the line in the mdadm.conf


[14:14] <mgedmin> gnome software keeps complaining "Got unknown content type text/html from reviews.ubuntu.com" when I click on flatpacks in search results
[14:15] <mgedmin> https://bugs.launchpa
[14:15] <mgedmin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1721049
[14:22]  * mgedmin forwards the bug upstream


[16:58] <blackboxsw> community notice: hi cloud-init. Now that 20.4 upstream is "released" and in Hirsute (21.04), we are looking to follow the StableUpdateRelease (SRU) process for Ubuntu to release to Xenial (16.06), Bionic (18.04), Focal (20.04) and Groovy (20.10) .
[16:58] <blackboxsw> community notice: The SRU validation will be starting today. Given the US holidays and the amount of work associated with the SRU validation of new features and bug-fixes, this effort will take us > 1 week. Updates will be reported in channel and an SRU process bug will be created for this
[17:00] <blackboxsw> community notice: We will be tracking our SRU validation efforts on this trello board, clicking check boxes on cards to show completion. as we go. https://trello.com/b/hP1KfPeU/sru-cloud-init-204.
[17:06] <blackboxsw> falcojr: when we perform new-upstream-snapshot into Groovy/focal/bionic/xenial branches let's provide commitish 47f4229ebcef9f83df8b549bb869a2dbf6dff17c to make sure we are syncing just your release 20.4 commit
[17:06] <blackboxsw> I'm creating the SRU bug now
[17:12] <blackboxsw> falcojr: also looks like we'll have to sort the quilt patch regeneration for the ds-identify changes too
[17:13] <blackboxsw> you'll notice the failure when you new-upstream-snapshot on ubuntu/xenial
[17:13] <falcojr> oh, blackboxsw: I already created the bug
[17:13] <falcojr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1905599
[17:13] <blackboxsw> excellent thanks. I was grabbing the changelogs now. will forget that then thank you
[17:13] <falcojr> sorry, didn't see your message till now
[17:14] <blackboxsw> no worries
[17:14] <falcojr> groovy branch here https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/695
[17:15] <blackboxsw> falcojr: we probably only want to new-upstream-snapshot the specific commit though 47f4229ebcef9f83df8b549bb869a2dbf6dff17c giving you a 20.4-0 version
[17:16] <blackboxsw> falcojr: otherwise you and I have to re-release into hirsute again with those two extra commits before SRUing that content back to keep Ubuntu policy that you can only SRU changesets that are published to later Ubuntu series
[17:16] <falcojr> gotcha, makes sense
[17:16] <blackboxsw> falcor we *could* re-release to hirsute current tip of master if you'd like. I'd sponsor that upload if you want
[17:16] <falcojr> nah, I think they're just test changes anyway
[17:16] <blackboxsw> your choice. but I know we may run out of time on the imminent turkey-day approaching
[17:17] <blackboxsw> +1 let's gen based on the commitish then
[17:17] <blackboxsw> no extra upload to hirsute
[17:21] <blackboxsw> falcojr: I re-added the missing TODOs from the general SRU template for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CloudinitUpdates as its used for paperwork/checking
[17:21] <blackboxsw> it got lost in the bug creation I think
[17:22] <falcojr> ah, right thanks
[17:22] <falcojr> new groovy pushed
[17:37] <falcojr> blackboxsw: so the quilt patch...
[17:38] <falcojr> do I just commit it to ubuntu/xenial on top of the previous head, then run new-upstream-snapshot on top of that?
[17:43] <blackboxsw> falcojr: you and I need this I think https://github.com/canonical/uss-tableflip/pull/68
[17:43] <blackboxsw> to provide new-upstream-stanpshot --first-sru
[17:43] <blackboxsw> otherwise the changelog includes bug numbers and doesn't prompt for SRU_BUG
[17:45] <blackboxsw> falcojr: as the debian package version in groovy should not be  cloud-init (20.4-0ubuntu1) groovy; urgency=medium
[17:45] <blackboxsw> but  cloud-init (20.4-0ubuntu1~20.10.1) groovy; urgency=medium
[17:45] <blackboxsw> falcojr: this always happens only on our --first-sru to a recently stable Ubuntu release
[17:46] <blackboxsw> falcojr: with that PR above I can regenerate the groovy branch with the following cmd:  neww-upstream-snapshot --first-sru --sru-bug 1905599 47f4229ebcef9f83df8b549bb869a2dbf6dff17c
[17:47] <falcojr> blackboxsw ok...trying to get the xenial quilt patch thing in before I do that
[17:48] <blackboxsw> +1 falcojr that groovy reference can wait. and note as well in groovy when you get to it. that someone we will need to manually redact  LP: #1900837  from the debian/changelog
[17:48] <blackboxsw> checking your quilt comment
[17:49] <falcojr> blackboxsw: also, I think I'm gonna have to get going in a minute here
[17:50] <blackboxsw> falcojr: +1 you apply the quilt patches in the quilt shell you get dropped into, then exit 0
[17:50] <blackboxsw> like here https://github.com/canonical/uss-tableflip/blob/master/doc/ubuntu_release_process.md#when-the-daily-recipe-build-fails
[17:51] <blackboxsw> and falcojr we can forget about xenial and we will sort that one since it's unique
[17:51] <blackboxsw> if the quilt stuff is a PITA.
[17:51] <blackboxsw> if you get groovy/focal/bionic then we are good. I'm checking those now
[17:52] <falcojr> ok, I think this is what the diff should be
[17:52] <falcojr> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2FKbKPSyPs/
[17:53] <blackboxsw> that seems reasonable falcojr
[17:53] <blackboxsw> whitespace and one line replacement
[17:53] <blackboxsw> I'm checking bionic/focal right now
[17:54] <falcojr> wait, there were 3 lines :D
[17:54] <falcojr> it should be a simple diff though
[17:56] <falcojr> blackboxsw pushed a new groovy
[17:57] <blackboxsw> falcojr: thanks a ton! and have a good one
[17:59] <blackboxsw> groovy is excellent. will upload that
[18:08] <blackboxsw> groovy upload complete.
[18:23] <blackboxsw> any upstream committers, I'd like to upload latest bits into hirsute https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/698 for review
[18:23] <blackboxsw> then we can reflect those commits into the SRU as well
[18:41] <blackboxsw> bionic queued and uploaded
[20:11] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: if there is a chance today/tomorrow: xenial upload (which required a quilt manual refresh/fix) https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/699
[20:11] <blackboxsw> I'd like to get that last upload queued as we didn't get a chance with falcojr
[20:12] <blackboxsw>  bionic focal and groovy are already queued uploads for cloud-init 20.4
[20:27] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Ack, looking now.
[20:35] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/699/files#r530630179
[22:11] <blackboxsw> that would have been bad Odd_Bloke thanks for the catch. I've updated and pushed and my diff against upstream/ubuntu/xenial:debian/patches/ds-identify matches your suggestion.
[22:18] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Thanks, LGTM now, +1.
[22:20] <blackboxsw> thanks Odd_Bloke I'll push and publish
[22:32] <blackboxsw> I pinged in SRU team #ubuntu-release  to let those uploads into -proposed. if nobody is available this week, we can pick it up again next week
[22:37] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Yep, sounds good.  I'd be surprised if we're ready to release 7 days from now anyway (given the testing we need to do plus holidays) so not getting that clock ticking isn't a major issue.
[22:37] <Odd_Bloke> I'll chase for the rest of the week regardless.
[22:54] <blackboxsw> thank you sir
[22:56] <meena> what, what
[22:56] <meena> are you done with SRU validation??
[23:29] <blackboxsw> meena: sorry for confusion there. just uploading to a test queue called xenial-proposed/bionic-proposed/focal-proposed
[23:30] <blackboxsw> these are the ubuntu packaging queues https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=cloud-init
[23:30] <blackboxsw> it needs to get accepted into proposed, then we can *start* test validation


[18:11] <mkonecny> Hi all.I'm having trouble adding a PPA to my Ubuntu 14.04 server, and have tracked it down to my server not able to connect to launchpad.net - its IP address appears to be blacklisted. Any ideas on how to get this resolved?
[18:14] <mkonecny> This only happens on one of my server, and running "telnet launchpad.net 80" hangs indefinitely. Other servers will immediately connect using telnet


[02:16] <mikubuntu> help!  bought a toshiba qosmio laptop at a garage sale today that is eaten up with viruses.  when i enter the bios boot sequence i set to boot first from the cd, but it skips to windows anyways.  it doesn't appear to want to boot from usb stick either.
[02:20] <mikubuntu> the choices it lists in boot priority are  HDD   FDD   CDROM AND LAN
[02:28] <evilbug> mikubuntu: you should make CDROM be the first option and then it'll boot from cd.
[03:34] <UBUXUBU> mikubuntu, did u fix it
[03:46] <xubuntu909> Any idea why ubuntu/xubuntu don't like to boot with Millenium G200 video card?
[04:10] <mikubuntu> evilbug and UBUXUBU, i did set the boot priority to cdrom, but it still won't boot from the cd.  i have 10.10 on a usb to, but the bios doesn't seem to offer that as bootable (sorry took me so long to answer had to run someone home)
[04:15] <mikubuntu> also, in the bios somewhere it indicates that it has two hard drives, one 80 gb and one 75gb
[04:15] <mikubuntu> i don't know if thats significant
[04:20] <mikubuntu> i notice on the second page of the system setup of ACPI BIOS version 1.30 there is an entry titled 'Configuration' and is set to = Setup by OS, the other option is to set it to ALL DEVICES
[04:27] <mikubuntu> i'm getting neurotic, i keep setting the bios to boot from cd and it bypasses and goes to xp .... and riddled with virus ... god i hate microsucks
[04:48] <mikubuntu> my search for http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ubuntu+toshiba+qosmio+g35+AV600 doesn't provide any very current posts, but it seems like it must be a beast to get ubuntu on this machine .. never had so much trouble getting to boot
[05:52] <mikubuntu> my search for http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ubuntu+toshiba+qosmio+g35+AV600 doesn't provide any very current posts, but it seems like it must be a beast to get ubuntu on this machine .. never had so much trouble getting to boot
[05:57] <mikubuntu> somebody must have had some experience with this machine.  i wonder where that somebody is tonite! :)
[06:44] <krisgb> Hi, I need some help on backing up settings.
[06:44] <krisgb> I've installed all the drivers and applications I need, and I want to make a LiveCD off my current setup
[06:44] <krisgb> I've seen remastersys and sysreccd
[06:45] <krisgb> but I'm not sure which of these is appropriate, and I can't seem to find anything if it's been tested on Maverick
[06:46] <mikubuntu> omg. this machine is going to drive me crazy.  i still can't get buntu on it and on top of that the damned iternet explorer won't respond (and of course its the only browser on here)   is there some kind of terminal way to install firefox on xp?
[06:48] <Sysi> mikubuntu: if there's no linux driver for that gpu, you should maybe reinstall that xp
[06:50] <mikubuntu> sysi, i bought it at a garage sail, so i don't have any reinstall disks,
[06:51] <mikubuntu> aand of course my goal is to get microsoft OFF MY PROPERTY
[06:51] <Sysi> does it have boot device selection menu, other than bios?
[06:52] <mikubuntu> i notice on the second page of the system setup of ACPI BIOS version 1.30 there is an entry titled 'Configuration' and is set to = Setup by OS, the other option is to set it to ALL DEVICES
[06:52] <mikubuntu> also, in the bios somewhere it indicates that it has two hard drives, one 80 gb and one 75gb
[06:52] <mikubuntu> my search for http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ubuntu+toshiba+qosmio+g35+AV600 doesn't provide any very current posts, but it seems like it must be a beast to get ubuntu on this machine .. never had so much trouble getting to boot
[06:53] <mikubuntu> evilbug and UBUXUBU, i did set the boot priority to cdrom, but it still won't boot from the cd.  i have 10.10 on a usb to, but the bios doesn't seem to offer that as bootable (sorry took me so long to answer had to run someone home)
[06:53] <evilbug> mikubuntu: ah. interesting then.
[06:53] <evilbug> mikubuntu: is it a win7 comp>
[06:53] <evilbug> ? **
[06:54] <mikubuntu> no, xp ... beautiful (old) machine for $40 if i can just get mockmesoft off of it
[06:55] <evilbug> that's odd.
[06:55] <evilbug> does the cd boot on another computer?
[06:56] <mikubuntu> i don't know why ie is not responding.  i installed a usb wifi receiver, and the machine is definitely connected to internet because then it offered me an upgrade of myspace im, and downloaded it, etc.
[06:57] <mikubuntu> yes, i've used that cd before
[06:57] <mikubuntu> the choices it lists in boot priority are  HDD   FDD   CDROM AND LAN
[06:58] <mikubuntu> so it doesn't appear to give option to boot from usb
[06:58] <evilbug> isn't FDD flash drive?
[06:59] <mikubuntu> somewhere in there said it was floppy something something
[06:59] <evilbug> ah. right.
[06:59] <mikubuntu> i did try it, i'll try it again tho, because i am neurotic
[07:00] <evilbug> but. have you tried the boot cd on another computer?
[07:00] <evilbug> if it works on another comp then i don't know what to tell you.
[07:02] <mikubuntu> and the toshiba qosmio has two hard drives, and it says that the bios is a windows program, so if you eliminate windows you lose bios .... is that POSSIBLE?
[07:03] <mikubuntu> its toshiba qosmio g35 AV600
[07:04] <Sysi> bios updates can be offered as .exe, but i really doubt it would be EFI windows machine
[07:04] <evilbug> bios should be separate from windows.
[07:05] <mikubuntu> is there any way of me installing ANY other browser through a windows terminal?
[07:06] <evilbug> mikubuntu: why do you need that?
[07:06] <mikubuntu> http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ubuntu+toshiba+qosmio+g35+AV600  look what it says in the first result about that .. i never heard of such a thing
[07:06] <evilbug> i thought your goal was to install xubuntu on this comp.
[07:07] <mikubuntu> yes, but it won't take it
[07:07] <mikubuntu> hold on, i'm gonna try the stick again
[07:07] <evilbug> if the comp can't take it then it won't work.
[07:07] <Sysi> if it's old it propably don't do usb
[07:08] <mikubuntu> it's really not all that old i think 06 or something
[07:10] <mikubuntu> it really burns me up that they don't just open source xp, and let the community take it over ... dirty bastards
[07:11] <Sysi> it wouldn't make it less horrible.. and business still uses it a lot
[07:11] <krisgb> okay, I'll try asking again: how do I make a LiveCD off a current install of Maverick?
[07:12] <evilbug> krisgb: download the .iso and burn to cd.
[07:13] <krisgb> I mean, I already have a current install of maverick, I've put in all the needed applications and proprietary drivers, and i now want to make a LiveCD off it
[07:13] <krisgb> I've seen remastersys, but I can't find if anybody's tried it on maverick
[07:13] <evilbug> ah.
[07:13] <evilbug> can't help you there.
[07:14] <krisgb> evilbug: thanks anyway :)
[07:15] <evilbug> krisgb: maybe you didn't download the computer right :D
[07:15] <mikubuntu> does anybody know how i can update ie without opening it?  cause when it opens, it is immediately unresponsive
[07:16] <evilbug> mikubuntu: you can download the exe from microsoft's site and run it.
[07:16] <evilbug> if you can open another browser.
[07:16] <mikubuntu> i haven't used windows ANYTHING since 98
[07:16] <evilbug> mikubuntu: you didn't miss anything.
[07:16] <krisgb> evilbug: yes I suppose :D
[07:16] <krisgb> "you didn't miss anything" - lmao
[07:17] <evilbug> i know, i was there.
[07:17] <mikubuntu> wait, so what would i do, download the .exe onto my linux machine, then burn it, and run it in the xp?
[07:17] <evilbug> mikubuntu: sure. or usb stick, network transfer, etc.
[07:18] <mikubuntu> couldn't i do that with firefox?  or any other suggested browser?
[07:20] <evilbug> mikubuntu: that's what i said.
[07:21] <evilbug> 23:16  evilbug> if you can open another browser.
[07:22] <evilbug> i'm away for a few minutes.
[07:23] <mikubuntu> ok, thx  ... downloading firefox.exe now
[07:27] <evilbug> back.
[07:48] <mikubuntu> arrrgh.  can't figure out how to burn this firefox.exe file ... i opened cd/dvd creator and when i click on the firefox setup it subdivides into several files ... first is 'localized' 1.6 mb, then nonlocalised 26.1 mb, optional 0 bytes, removed-files.log  19.6 mb, and setup.exe 476 kb ... yes, it sounds like a setup
[07:51] <evilbug> make an archive of it and burn it?
[07:53] <mikubuntu> hmmm.  don't really know how to do that either.  whenever i download a new version of the buntus, i just right click and 'write to disc'  ... this is not giving me that option
[07:56] <evilbug> so can't you make a zip of that exe?
[07:57] <mikubuntu> don't know how, brain is fried, i guess i come back to that question tomorrow ... appreciate all your help for last three hours guys
[07:59] <evilbug> mikubuntu: sorry i can't be of more help. you can also try #ubuntu
[08:01] <mikubuntu> i like this channel better, always have .. i use all the flavors on different machines that i end up giving away mostly
[08:02] <mikubuntu> need to try that lubuntu on some REALLY old boxes i have in the garage
[08:02] <evilbug> i wish i had a dedicated linbox.
[08:03] <evilbug> something fairly new and powerful though.
[08:05] <evilbug> mikubuntu: have a good night, i'm off as well.
[08:07] <mikubuntu> nito, then
[10:21] <dimension_775> hi there.  my month old xubuntu 10.10 system keeps logging me out at random intervals..is there a command i can run, or log files i can look at to try and figure out what is happening?
[10:55] <Slammmmmmm> halp
[11:13] <TheSheep> dimension_775: yes, check the ~/.xsessionerrors file
[11:13] <TheSheep> dimension_775: also the files in /var/log/
[11:13] <TheSheep> dimension_775: one common reason for such behavior is low disk space in user home directory
[11:14] <dimension_775> TheSheep: thanks, i'll will have a look at that now.  thanks.  oh wow while i was typing to you it just happened! lol there is only 11GB remaining, and i've a bunch of torrents going, so maybe you are right about low disk space
[11:15] <TheSheep> dimension_775: 11GB is plenty
[11:16] <dimension_775> yea, i have 2 40GB HDD's.  one is 100% full (file storage) and the other is 71% full (/home)
[11:17] <TheSheep> may be something else, check those files
[11:23] <Skaps> hello there
[11:24] <Skaps> so ive got xubuntu 9.10 on my pc, how do i go about up[dating to 10.10
[11:24] <Sysi> through 10.04 or reinstall
[11:25] <Skaps> so redownload is the best option?
[11:25] <Skaps> wait, how can i update to 10.04
[11:25] <Sysi> update manager / do-release-upgrade
[11:26] <Skaps> so like in my update manager there are 250 updates
[11:26] <Skaps> do i just download all them
[11:27] <Skaps> wait
[11:27] <Skaps> nevermind
[11:28] <Skaps> theres a large button at the top asking me to upgradfe to 10.04
[11:29] <TheSheep> yay for lorge buttons :)
[11:29] <TheSheep> larg*
[11:34] <dimension_775> TheSheep: i looked through all those logs but didn't notice any straightforward explanation..can you take a look when you get a chance? http://pastebin.com/WNVcmXJ3  i copied the last few lines of each log file and their names are highlighted
[11:37] <dimension_775> i'll give you some more info: the logouts happen when i'm looking at the machine (which is is another room) through my laptop's VNC viewer.  and when it logs out, and i sign back in, there is a small black cursor-thing in the upper left corner of the screen that flickers when i hover the mouse cursor over it
[11:38] <TheSheep> dimension_775: check ~/.xsessionerrors too
[11:38] <dimension_775> oh yea almost forgot that, be right back
[11:42] <dimension_775> TheSheep: here are the .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/JvfT9eS7  also, i should tell you the only things i use on that box are: deluge, moblock + mobloquer, mail-notification, and X11vnc server
[11:43] <dimension_775> so maybe it's one of those things?
[11:45] <TheSheep> dimension_775: have you tried -noxdamage with vnc?
[11:45] <TheSheep> dimension_775: there is a warning about it in that log
[11:48] <dimension_775> TheSheep: thanks, i'll try that.  going to reboot and try to reproduce the bug
[13:05] <nicofs> in xterm, commands are not completed with tab... how can i change that...?
[13:05] <TheSheep> nicofs: . /etc/bash_completion
[13:07] <nicofs> TheSheep: sorry, but what do i do about that?
[13:20] <TheSheep> nicofs: you tupe it in the terminal
[13:21] <nicofs> TheSheep: permission denied or as sudo command not found
[13:22] <dimension_775> nicofs: try pressing Tab twice
[13:23] <nicofs> dimension_775: changes to "bash_completion.d/" and returns "... is a directory!"
[13:24] <Kathrin> Can someone tell me how to provide grub with a parameter to boot a different OS in a multiboot environment?
[13:24] <charlie-tca> nicofs, Uncomment the bash completion lines in /etc/bash.bashrc and restart
[13:24] <Kathrin> Unfortunately I can't go into the data center and manually select the OS and the GRUB fallback option is not really an option.
[13:26] <nicofs> charlie-tca: they look roughly like what?
[13:27] <charlie-tca> #if [ -f /etc/bash_completion ] && ! shopt -oq posix; then
[13:27] <charlie-tca> #    . /etc/bash_completion
[13:27] <charlie-tca> #fi
[13:27] <dimension_775> nicofs: mine are on lines 32 - 34
[13:27] <nicofs> charlie-tca: thanks... i somehoe oversaw that...
[13:27] <dimension_775> just remove the #'s
[13:42] <Kathrin> charlie do you have a clue?
[13:43] <charlie-tca> Kathrin, I don't enough about to grub for that
[13:55] <discharge> Hey, anyone know how to put the suspend button in the xfce logout menu? The keybinding i have for suspending on power button press works...
[13:56] <TheSheep> dimension_775: you need to use settings->settings editor
[13:56] <TheSheep> dimension_775: go to xfce4-session -> shutdown
[13:56] <TheSheep> dimension_775: and enabled ShowHibernate and/or ShowSuspend
[13:57] <discharge> lol yes, that works, were you explaining it to some1 else who asked before me? :O
[13:57] <TheSheep> dimension_775: no, I wanted to have it myself
[13:58] <TheSheep> ah, tab-completion fail
[13:58] <TheSheep> sorry
[13:58] <dimension_775> lol np
[13:58] <discharge> yes ;)
[13:58] <Sysi> cool, need to remember that
[13:58] <discharge> thanks, now i have one big suspend button :)
[13:58] <TheSheep> Sysi: there are many settings in there that are not available through normal gui
[13:58] <Sysi> TheSheep: i could explorer that some day.. even if it looks like gconf-editor
[13:59] <dimension_775> TheSheep: everything is good so far with the -noxdamage switch.  i'll keep testing and let you know if it happens again.  thanks again
[13:59] <TheSheep> dimension_775: it says "don't damage my X' ;)
[14:00] <dimension_775> TheSheep: lol my x was damaged, now shes ok
[17:10] <charlie-tca> Is there anyone using the Xubuntu ppc port?
[20:04] <Snapshot> Anom01y - are you there?
[20:04] <n2diy> are fonts platform dependent? I'm salvaging my old Win 3.0 laptop, and I'm wondering if I should preserve the fonts?
[20:08] <charlie-tca> Most windows fonts are owned by microsoft specifically
[20:08] <charlie-tca> however, they can be used if in the correct font format
[20:11] <charlie-tca> Example, ttf-mscorefonts-installer   will install microsoft fonts into Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu
[20:20] <xubuntu590> does Xubuntu provide RDC server?
[20:39] <nicofs> Who can help me get my 3G-Modem (Huawei EM770W) to work? It worked just fine until recently. I reinstalled Xubuntu in the meantime - and tried various SIM cards of various providers.
[22:39] <Thermi> gn9
[22:39] <Thermi> *gn8


[03:29] <paultag> james_w: Hey, are you around?
[03:32] <james_w> hi paultag
[03:33] <paultag> james_w: Howdy. I'm playing with recipies, and I have a non-std source directory. Just wanted to bounce it off you, if you have time
[03:34] <james_w> sure
[03:35] <paultag> james_w: my upstream is http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/fluxbox.git, I have it mirrored at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~paultag/p5/debian-fluxbox
[03:35] <james_w> P5?
[03:36] <paultag> james_w: Paul's un-Paralleled Personal Project Pile
[03:36] <paultag> james_w: just my local mirror of random stuff
[03:39] <paultag> james_w: so the issue is that the source is not in the top level, the debuild -s goes on in the fluxbox-* dir under the root, and that pulls the tar files from ../
[03:40] <james_w> that's certainly not standard
[03:40] <maco> paultag: oh youre trying to do funny things with source packages and VCS too???
[03:40] <paultag> james_w: :)
[03:40] <paultag> maco: yeah, P.S. I just got this version of flux uploaded :)
[03:40] <maco> i had james_w confused with what im doing for gally, but its how the lp recipe stuff suggests!
[03:40] <maco> paultag: yay
[03:40] <paultag> maco: hahaaha
[03:40] <paultag> maco: :)
[03:41] <paultag> james_w: it's far from standard, but we can't ship binaries in the debian/ dir, and this is a mirror from git.debian, so I can't do a merge
[03:41] <paultag> or a nest, rather
[03:41] <paultag> ( the second tar.gz has our branding in it )
[03:41] <maco> by the way, i <3 firefox all-in-one-sidebar and tabmix. *really awesome* for vertical screen real estate
[03:41] <paultag> maco: yeah?
[03:42] <maco> paultag: my browser is not recognised as firefox by others :P
[03:42] <paultag> maco: thats when you know it's right :)
[03:43] <paultag> I've been playing with uzbl lately
[03:43] <paultag> it's pretty cool
[03:45] <paultag> james_w: any bits of wisdom for me?
[03:45] <james_w> paultag: nope, I'm not sure how to deal with that
[03:46] <paultag> james_w: is the backend using debuild -s ?
[03:46] <paultag> or dpkg-buildsource
[03:46] <paultag> or something else like that
[03:49] <james_w> debuild, yes
[03:49] <paultag> james_w: that will complete with success if the recipie allows me to cd before the build
[03:50] <paultag> james_w: is there any way of having it debuild from a child directory?
[03:52] <james_w> no
[03:52] <paultag> james_w: so, no solution, wontfix ?
[03:52] <paultag> ( that's not that much of an issue, this is a special case )
[03:53] <james_w> you can file a bug
[03:53] <james_w> there's no way to do that cd now
[03:53] <paultag> james_w: would it be worth it to do so?
[03:53] <paultag> I'm just not sure this would ever happen in an LP native package
[03:54] <paultag> and I don't think that what I'm doing is "right"
[03:54] <paultag> OK. Thanks james_w :)
[03:57] <paultag> night maco :)
[07:46] <ara> good morning all!
[07:49] <jussi> Huomenta Ara!
[07:51] <ara> hey jussi :)
[07:52] <dpm> good morning all!
[07:52] <dpm> morning ara, morning jussi
[07:53] <jussi> Hei dpm
[08:00] <dholbach> good morning
[08:02] <dpm> good morning dholbach, kim0
[08:03] <dholbach> hey dpm, kim0
[08:03] <ara> morning dholbach, dpm, kim0
[08:03]  * ara reboots after upgrading her laptop
[08:08] <dholbach> hola ara
[08:08] <ara> hey dholbach
[08:09] <dholbach> nigelb: seems we only made a bit of a dent: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/patches/
[08:14] <kim0> dpm: dholbach morning folks
[08:14]  * kim0 waves morning to all
[08:14] <kim0> morning ara :)
[08:24] <nigelb> dholbach: \o/
[08:24]  * nigelb hugs dholbach
[08:24] <dholbach> nigelb: more patch review days
[08:25] <nigelb> dholbach: definitely.
[08:25] <nigelb> If we can get it to <500 I would be very happy
[08:25] <dholbach> we should talk to the guys from yesterday and see what their experience was like
[08:25] <dholbach> and maybe we can do something for UGJ
[08:27] <nigelb> dholbach: OMG!
[08:27] <nigelb> 19% !!!!!!
[08:27] <nigelb> \o/
[08:27]  * nigelb pops the champange
[08:27] <nigelb> dholbach: Yes, we should talk to the bug squad guys/gals to know what their experience was like.
[08:36] <dholbach> nigelb: thanks for looking into this! :)
[09:40] <dholbach> hola randa_
[09:40] <randa> hola dholbach
[09:41] <dholbach> ara: do you think we need to prepare much for the berlin jam? I think I could download all the ISOs in the office again, so we could get folks to upgrade and test
[09:46] <ara> dholbach, that would be great, yes
[09:47] <dholbach> ara: and I guess we should use squid-deb-proxy again :)
[09:47] <dholbach> ok, looks like you have everything sorted out already :)
[09:49] <ara> do I?
[09:49] <dholbach> ara: well, there's nothing on your todo list for it, is there? :)
[09:50] <ara> ah, OK, it looks like it
[10:55] <dpm> kim0, where did you add the ignoreabi option for your nvidia driver?
[10:56] <kim0> dpm: add this line to xorg.conf ServerLayout section =>   Option  "IgnoreABI"     "true"
[10:56] <jussi> http://pastebin.com/pzWyg9W1
[10:56] <jussi> theres an example xorg ;)
[11:00] <dpm> that's what confuses me, in one instance it is under ServerLayout, and on the other under ServerFlags. In any case, neither works for me.
[11:00] <dpm> thanks kim0 and jussi
[11:01] <jussi> dpm: you do have the ppa added...?
[11:02] <jussi> dpm: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
[11:04] <dpm> yeah, and the latest nvidia driver installed
[11:08] <dpm> according to man xorg.conf it should go under ServerFlags - not that it makes a difference on my system
[11:09] <kim0> dpm: that's nvidia-current version for me => 256.44-0ubuntu0sarvatt3
[11:09] <kim0> dpm: might wanna join #ubuntu+1
[11:10] <dpm> same here
[11:10] <dpm> I should probably ask on the x guys channel
[12:37] <paultag_> nigelb: where do I file debdiffs for syncs to?
[12:58] <czajkowski> morning aloha
[12:59] <paultag> czajkowski: heyya :)
[13:11] <nigelb> paultag: no need of debdiff for  a sync
[13:12] <paultag> nigelb: I asked in motu and got a response. sorry for the ping
[13:12] <nigelb> just have a bug.  there is a synctool or something in ubuntu-dev-tools AFAIK
[13:12] <paultag> in devscripts,  yeah
[13:20]  * nigelb hugs paultag :)
[13:20]  * paultag hugs nigelb
[13:20] <paultag> nigelb: it looks good, and it's almost done https://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=fluxbox
[13:21] <nigelb> paultag: woohoo!
[13:21] <paultag> nigelb: http://i.imgur.com/qsrT4.png <-- debian build, http://i.imgur.com/9JYf8.png <-- ubuntu build
[13:26] <nigelb> paultag: ROCKING!
[13:27] <paultag> nigelb: it should be nice to rid the debian swirl from the ubuntu release
[13:37] <nigelb> paultag: well, its subjective.
[13:37] <nigelb> I, for one, do not mind.
[13:43] <nhandler> nigelb: AFAIK, that script still hasn't gotten the official OK from the archive admins. I would still use requestsync for now
[13:43] <paultag> nigelb: it just looks rank amateur to look like you've not even put 10 minutes of work into the package :)
[13:43] <paultag> nhandler: that's the one I'm using :)
[14:09] <nigelb> nhandler: wait, requestsync is what I was talking about.
[14:10] <nhandler> nigelb: Ah, ok. There is another script (not sure if it is in u-d-t yet) that basically allows developers to actually perform a pseudo-sync
[14:37] <akgraner> Good Morning :-)  and Happy Happy Friday!
[14:38] <nhandler> Hello akgraner
[14:39] <akgraner> nhandler itnet7 pointed out the formating on the NC team reports and how it was appearing on the wiki page
[14:40] <akgraner> I fixed it on the newsletter but I wanted to show a couple people who help with the reports on the NC team why a little different formating was needed - so I'll fix the team reports page once I show them the example
[14:41] <nhandler> akgraner: What was the issue with that team again? (I can't keep the various problems straight)
[14:42]  * czajkowski hugs nhandler
[14:42] <czajkowski> nhandler: just think if we had all 142 teams doing them!
[14:42] <akgraner> it's just not lining up with the other US team reports
[14:42] <akgraner> it just needs a == NC Team Report == above the include
[14:43] <akgraner> so it will line up when you run your script otherwise it's not indented correctly
[14:44] <nhandler> akgraner: Well, it might be worht mentioning that the TeamReport page already includes a title for their report. By including "Ubuntu North Carolina LoCo Team" in the report itself, it shows up twice
[14:44] <nhandler> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/July2010#Ubuntu%20North%20Carolina%20LoCo%20Team
[14:44] <akgraner> we can fix it :-) we can just delete it from the include
[14:45] <nhandler> :)
[14:45] <akgraner> just wanted to let you know we were aware of it
[15:12] <akgraner> AlanBell, ping
[15:15] <AlanBell> hi
[15:17] <akgraner> AlanBell, daviey got it - someone wanted mootbot-uk added to a channel ;-)
[15:17]  * akgraner <3's mootbot-uk
[15:18] <AlanBell> okies
[15:18]  * AlanBell will get back to work on the voting feature of the python one this weekend
[15:19] <akgraner> :-)
[16:28] <dholbach> ok my friends - I'm heading out for the weekend - have a good one and see you soon!
[16:28] <paultag> dholbach: before you go --
[16:28] <paultag> dholbach: I got my package in Debain, it builds the theme as you suggested, thanks for talking me off the ledge :)
[16:30] <dholbach> paultag: ROCK ON
[16:30] <dholbach> have a great WE
[17:06] <dpm> hey, any wiki experts around? I'm trying to find out why this page redirects to a pdf attachment: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Surveys/TeamsHealthcheck (at least on my firefox it does)
[17:06] <paultag> dpm: not that page?
[17:06] <paultag> dpm: let me test with FF
[17:07] <paultag> dpm: yeah, nothing here that redirects to a PDF
[17:07] <paultag> dpm: are you sure you don't have an ?attachment at the end of your url ?
[17:08] <dpm> paultag, I'm pretty certain, I've tried it several times. In any case, if that works for you, that's a great help, as now I know it's a problem on my side, so thanks :)
[17:09] <paultag> dpm: sure, I'll see if I can't reproduce some other way
[17:10] <paultag> dpm: Ah, I see why
[17:10] <paultag> dpm: the pdf is embedded. Is it this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com//Translations/Surveys/TeamsHealthcheck?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SurveySummary.pdf
[17:11] <paultag> dpm: might want to change  * {{attachment:SurveySummary.pdf}} to be a [[  ]]
[17:11] <paultag> dpm: the {{ }} is for images IIRC ( showing them in-page ) and it's trying to render it as an object in the browser. Mine failed because it does not have the plugin, but I could see it redirecting to try and save face
[17:11] <dpm> paultag, right, but why can that possibly cause the redirect?
[17:11] <paultag> dpm: see above :)
[17:11] <paultag> dpm: it's throwing it in <object> tags
[17:12] <paultag> I'm pretty sure FF would freak out at that
[17:12] <dpm> paultag, ok, great, thanks. Yeah, I had installed adobereader for some testing, and the plugin loads the embedded document. Let me change it to [[]]
[17:12] <paultag> dpm: let's try and duplicate, one sec
[17:14] <paultag> dpm: http://me.pault.ag/test.html
[17:14] <paultag> dpm: does that do the same thing?
[17:15] <dpm> paultag, yeah, it does exactly the same thing in FF
[17:15] <paultag> dpm: OK, if you look at the source, that's the exact line from the page. Looks like a FF / MoinMoin issue, I'd file a bug if that's something you were expecting -- might want to [[ ]] to work around it
[17:19] <dpm> paultag, changing {{}} to [[]] did it, thanks a lot!
[17:19] <paultag> dpm: sure thing :)
[17:39] <cjohnston> howdy
[19:28]  * nigelb goes what in the.... http://www.impactlab.net/2010/07/29/amazing-miniature-pencil-sculptures-by-dalton-ghetti/
[22:30] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/08/13/going-headless/
[22:30] <AlanBell> would appreciate feedback on that one


[14:19] <Darxus> Okay, so, I created this ppa, which worked yesterday, and people have been excited about:  https://code.launchpad.net/~darxus/+archive/ubuntu/linux-firmware-amdgpu-daily https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/jg6ivb/i_created_a_ppa_to_automatically_upgrade_amd/g9qy88n/
[14:26] <Darxus> It starts with the ubuntu linux-firmware package, merges in a delete of the amdgpu directory, then nest-parts the amdgpu directory from upstream.  That merge to delete seems extremely messy.  And the same merge does not work with groovy, because it's trying to delete updated versions.  Can we just have a delete command for recipes?  Pass the argument to rm -rf?  This seems like a common problem, with an
[14:27] <Darxus> obvious solution.
[14:41] <Darxus> run?  There's a run?!  I can just run a command?  Why is that not on https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes?
[14:44] <Darxus> "Error parsing recipe:3:1: The 'run' instruction is forbidden."
[14:44] <Darxus> You're just making my life hard on purpose, right?
[14:48] <tomwardill> Darxus: sorry, we've been opening the release for the HH series, so I've been moderately distracted today
[14:49] <tomwardill> we don't allow run, as recipe builds shouldn't allow code execution in the build farm
[14:49] <tomwardill> unfortunately, I'm also not very good with recipe packaging so don't have an ideal solution for you (our team member who I'd usually ask is on leave today)
[14:52] <Darxus> tomwardill: I appreciate the response.  I totally understand being distracted today.  And I can understand not allowing run.  Do you think there is any harm in having a delete?
[15:19] <Darxus> I think I just had a build failure that might be related to changes in the launchpad build system today.  One of my automated builds just failed.  The linux-firmware package I'm basing it on, upstream, and the repo I'm merging to delete haven't changed.  The only recipe change was in package versioning.  And the failure seems unrelated to anything I've done.
[15:19] <Darxus> install: cannot stat '/<<BUILDDIR>>/linux-firmware-1.187.3+20201023~ubuntu20.04.1/debian/linux-firmware/lib/firmware/atmel_at76c504_2958.bin': No such file or directory
[15:23] <tomwardill> there's been no code changes to the LP or the builders today, so that's interesting
[15:25] <Darxus> I'm still digging....
[15:56] <Darxus> Yup, I was mistaken.  That was a different recipe that automatically failed to build.  Sorry.
[16:58] <cjwatson> Darxus: Honestly I think you might be better off uploading source packages directly rather than using recipes; they aren't necessarily intended to cover all possibilities
[16:58] <cjwatson> Darxus: Recipes are an optional add-on to PPAs, not the only way to do it
[22:37] <Darxus> cjwatson: Weird, I think recipes are amazing.
[23:00] <cjwatson> Darxus: They're definitely useful in a lot of cases, but I do sometimes see people running off the edge of their capabilities and the barrier to extending them is pretty high


[12:55] <otubo> smoser: what about adding an exception to cloud-init so user can still resize the LV? https://github.com/otubo/cloud-init/commit/1ce765d75f144c22814221bd9c16ae90a0e4e757
[12:56] <otubo> smoser: sorry force push to fix a typo https://github.com/otubo/cloud-init/commit/8cc6c035dea62f02cc82f655d2f118e3ab670c8b
[13:41] <smoser> otubo: what od you mean adding an exception?
[13:56] <otubo> I mean, if the user configued a single device for growpart to grow, than we grow it (LV included), otherwise we fail with that log.
[13:56] <otubo> smoser:
[13:57] <otubo> smoser: I'll address those two comments, write the unittest and create a PR.
[14:39] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: falcojr: We had specifically avoided raising on failure on initial boot of (all) instances so that our test assertions would run even if a failure case happened ("WARN found in cloud-init.log: ..." is a lot more useful than a traceback because cloud-init status exited non-zero).  I think the change in #712 makes sense, but wanted to flag up that this is not intended to "hide" errors.
[14:40] <falcojr> yep, I think we were agreed that was the right change. We just decided it was good to have the option when doing restarts in the middle of tests
[14:41] <Odd_Bloke> (I wonder if we should modify restart (and perhaps launch?) to perform some asserting themselves; that guarantees that we don't miss breakage on subsequent boots, but gives us better fidelity on such errors.)
[14:41] <Odd_Bloke> AnhVoMSFT: Still seeing that bionic tox failure?  Pastebin the error?
[16:23] <AnhVoMSFT> @Odd_Bloke yes error is still there https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GXwYj33XgX/
[16:53] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: I agree that the default makes sense to avoid non-specific failure cases due to warnings in general as we should be specifically asserting a given specific failure .   The upgrade test in this James' case was hoping to fail on any unexpected errors/warnings.
[16:53] <blackboxsw> Will look over that PR now
[17:00] <Odd_Bloke> blackboxsw: Right, I'm wondering if we should write some more specific assertions in the cloud-init codebase, rather than just relying on the exception raised by `cloud-init status --wait`; I guess now we capture logs on error, it's less important to have the assertions describe the problem accurately, however.
[17:00] <otubo> smoser: PR in https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/714 hopefully we can merge it until Friday, which is when I leave for vacation :-D
[17:01] <otubo> Odd_Bloke: your patch regarding the CA Cert tests are also in https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/715
[17:01] <blackboxsw> @Odd_Bloke I agree we should probably develop that specific error handling to avoid the generic exit code failure.
[17:03] <Odd_Bloke> AnhVoMSFT: Hmm, so I think the problem you're hitting is that the new pip dependency resolver isn't allowing httpretty 1.0.2 to be installed; that version fixes the error you're seeing there.
[17:04] <Odd_Bloke> So some other dependency is declaring an httpretty dependency which excludes 1.0.2 (and the new resolver is smart enough to therefore not install 1.0.2).
[17:04] <Odd_Bloke> But 1.0.1 is broken in a way which kills the resolver, it looks like.
[17:14] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: I'm probably going down the wrong path related to your assertion comment. But, I do think we should grow the cloud-init status --wait error handling/assertions etc for better error handling and better user experience when failures occur. I think our 'cloud-init status --long' failures are cryptic at best and force folks to go spelunking into /var/log/cloud-init.log. It'd be nice to classify failures a
[17:14] <blackboxsw> bit better.
[17:14] <blackboxsw> and potentially give better warning handling there too
[17:14] <blackboxsw> falcojr: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/693#discussion_r537675513
[17:14] <Odd_Bloke> AnhVoMSFT: We'll have to root cause exactly what's going on, but I think http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FjCyFJTXZm/ applied locally should unblock you for now.
[17:15] <AnhVoMSFT> thanks @Odd_Bloke, let me try
[17:43] <blackboxsw> Odd_Bloke: smoser rharper , falcojr so we've cut SRU as of a week+ ago and uploaded cloud-init into Ubuntu -proposed pockets. I just wanted to notify folks that we are looking to land PRs that are not intended for SRU. So, if we see regressions during SRU validation, we will have to follow cloud-init's cherry-pick  process to pull down specific changes into the ubuntu/* release branches. Does that sound ok to
[17:43] <blackboxsw> all?
[17:44] <blackboxsw> I'm thinking about this PR[1] , but I know there are other feature-full changes (like VMware too) that we wouldn't want to incidentally pull in if we find a regression during cloud-init SRU testing. [1] https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/647
[18:02] <blackboxsw> falcojr: upgrade test merged https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/693
[18:02] <blackboxsw> thanks
[19:00] <rharper> blackboxsw: yeah, that sounds fine;
[23:58] <blackboxsw> got a rewiew in for vmware supporting cloud-config userdata & metadata for xiaofeng https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/691. that'll be fun when it landds


[02:37] <drkokandy> Good evening!
[02:37] <Unit193> Howdy.
[02:38] <PCLine_> Evening   drkokandy
[12:28] <jrgifford_> morning
[22:03] <Unit193> jrgifford_: Howdy!
[22:35] <jrgifford_> Unit193: how goes things?
[22:39] <Unit193> Hopefully alright.  You?


[15:59] <dsmythies> For the doc tream meeting, please go to #ubuntu-doc.
[16:00] <kees> \o
[16:00] <mdeslaur> o/
[16:00] <infinity> o/
[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:01] <pitti> o/
[16:01] <pitti> infinity: so, your turn today?
[16:01] <infinity> Yep.
[16:01] <infinity> Just waiting for more hands to go up. :P
[16:02] <pitti> i. e. stgraber's?
[16:02] <infinity> We'll live without him, I guess.
[16:02] <infinity> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  1 16:02:50 2015 UTC.  The chair is infinity. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:03] <infinity> [TOPIC] Action review
[16:03] <infinity> slangasek: Looks like you had two.
[16:03] <infinity> ACTION: slangasek to forward complaint to Canonical legal
[16:03] <infinity> ACTION: slangasek to document maas, juju, docker exceptions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Special_Cases
[16:04] <slangasek> infinity: both carried over
[16:04] <infinity> pitti: ACTION: pitti to propose amendment to general SRU policy for new features in LTS
[16:05] <pitti> yay! done
[16:05] <pitti> (after some 4 times bouncing)
[16:05] <pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2015-September/thread.html
[16:05] <infinity> \o/
[16:05] <mdeslaur> \o/
[16:05] <pitti> I also used the opportunity to propose and clean up the SRU policy at large
[16:05] <pitti> the actual "new features" amendment is rather small
[16:06] <pitti> but admittedly I only sent this an hour or so ago, so I don't expect anyone to have read it yet and thought about it
[16:06] <pitti> so maybe replies on the list?
[16:06]  * stgraber waves
[16:06] <pitti> ça va stgraber !
[16:06] <mdeslaur> I skimmed it, but haven't thought it through yet
[16:06] <infinity> Right, let's take that to the list, and if we don't get anywhere, discuss it at the next meeting.
[16:07] <infinity> [ACTION] Everyone to review pitti's SRU policy ammendments and +1/-1 on-list.
[16:07] <meetingology> ACTION: Everyone to review pitti's SRU policy ammendments and +1/-1 on-list.
[16:07] <stgraber> pitti: très bien, merci! Sorry for being a bit late, was changing location.
[16:07] <mdeslaur> pitti: this basically removes the need to get an explicit tech-board ack for SRU microreleases, right?
[16:07] <slangasek> hadn't seen the mail until just now
[16:08] <infinity> Do we need to tackle jcastro's driver update stuff in the meeting, or is the healthy list debate working for everyone.
[16:08] <infinity> ?
[16:08] <pitti> mdeslaur: that's the intention -- as we basically always ask the same question etc.
[16:08] <mdeslaur> pitti: ok, was just making sure I parsed it correctly
[16:08] <pitti> so I'd rather generalize the principles, and stop this (IMHO rather unmaintainable) list
[16:08] <mdeslaur> infinity: I think jcastro was ok with the discussion
[16:08] <pitti> Alberto had some followup with some new points (short-lived drivers)
[16:09] <pitti> but I'm still firmly opposed to enabling random PPAs with some driver GUI
[16:09] <infinity> Ditto.
[16:09] <stgraber> yup
[16:09] <infinity> I had some rather strong opinions off-list about that.
[16:09] <mdeslaur> yeah, I'd rather see more driver updates in the actual archive
[16:10] <slangasek> full agreement
[16:10] <stgraber> short-lived test drivers can go to a PPA. Production-ready drivers can go in as SRUs.
[16:10] <infinity> Alright, let's keep this discussion on-list, since there's plenty there already, and it's nice to keep the discussion in the same spot.
[16:10] <stgraber> and said PPA would have to be manually added by any user/tester of said driver
[16:10] <pitti> yeah, nothing wrong with having PPAs, just don't use them as SRU bypasses
[16:10] <jcastro> yes the plan is for us to iterate in the PPA, and then people can steal that into distro as necessary
[16:10] <mdeslaur> I have no objection to perhaps making the SRU waiting period shorter in the future if we're trying to get day-one drivers for specific games in though
[16:11] <jcastro> just in case people missed my email withdrawing the PPA proposal
[16:11] <infinity> mdeslaur: Given past quality of those updates, I object to that until there's a better history.
[16:11] <pitti> I do belive that we have stalled SRU/NEW queues, but enabling PPAs by default doesn't sound like the answer
[16:11] <infinity> mdeslaur: They introduce packaging regressions often.
[16:11] <jcastro> pitti: agree 100%
[16:11] <mdeslaur> infinity: yes, I agree. hence the "in the future"
[16:11] <slangasek> I didn't get a chance to point this out on the list yet, but one factor in NEW being slow for SRUs is that it's a different queue
[16:12] <slangasek> I think for jcastro's use case the packages should be continuous SRUs of a single source package, to avoid this
[16:12] <pitti> yeah, hardly ever looked at
[16:12] <slangasek> (technical details etc)
[16:12] <pitti> or at least we need to plant the "look at NEW" idea into ~ubuntu-sru's habits
[16:12] <infinity> I'm training a couple of new AAs to try to help the queue depth issue, but it might help to get formal about driver updates, much like I did for kernel SRUs when they were having issues a few years ago.
[16:12] <stgraber> right, that'd also mean getting potentially reviewable diffs instead of the unreviewable monstrosity we get today
[16:12] <slangasek> pitti: planting in habits won't change the problem of multiple queues + queue starvation, really
[16:13] <pitti> TBH, the nvidia driver is comparatively hard to source-NEW, as it's such a complex package (both license-wise and packaging-wise)
[16:13] <slangasek> anyway, the TB doesn't need to micromanage this part I think, sorry for bringing it up :)
[16:13] <infinity> Heh.
[16:13] <infinity> [TOPIC] Mailing list archives
[16:14] <pitti> nothing new aside from the driver thingies that I can see
[16:14] <infinity> Anything else interesting that we've been missing?
[16:14]  * pitti pats his mutt filters marking TB email green
[16:15] <infinity> [TOPIC] Community bugs
[16:15] <infinity> Nada.
[16:15] <infinity> [TOPIC] Next chair
[16:15] <pitti> next time: me, then slangasek ?
[16:15] <infinity> The wiki claims pitti, which is oddy out of order if today was me.
[16:15] <infinity> But sure, pitti, then slangasek.
[16:16] <slangasek> infinity: was yours a catch-up?
[16:16] <pitti> hm, can't remember the history; we might have swapped due to non-attendance or whatnot
[16:16] <slangasek> anyway
[16:16] <infinity> slangasek: Might have been.
[16:16] <infinity> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:16] <infinity> Anybody have any OB?
[16:16] <pitti> nothign from me
[16:17] <mdeslaur> nope
[16:17] <stgraber> nope
[16:17] <slangasek> no
[16:17] <infinity> Alright, off to edit the wiki.
[16:17] <infinity> #endmeeting
[16:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  1 16:17:23 2015 UTC.
[16:17] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-09-01-16.02.moin.txt
[16:17] <mdeslaur> thanks everyone!
[16:17] <mdeslaur> thanks infinity
[16:17] <pitti> thanks folks
[16:17] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:18] <kees> thanks all


[04:21] <Cantide> hello~
[04:36] <Cantide> I want to donate for Kilos, but I need to use a PayPal account to do so and GoFundMe doesn't have a PayPal option. If anyone has a solution, please send me a PM. Thanks.
[04:52] <paddatrapper> Hey Cantide. If you hang around someone with the answer should wake up soon
[06:36] <Kilos> hi all, has something happened to port 7070. 2 days i cant get in on secure connection
[06:36] <Kilos> wbb
[07:54] <superfly> Cantide: I have paypal, so if you want, you can send me the money, and then I'll donate on your behalf?
[07:55] <superfly> hi Kilos
[07:56] <superfly> Cantide: are you in SA? Cause then you can do an EFT to me instead of PayPal too
[08:15] <superfly> hi deegee
[08:53] <Kilos> hi superfly inetpro and everyone else
[08:54] <Kilos> just got out the bath, so lekker warm
[08:54] <Kilos> all ok in za land?
[08:55] <Kilos> im playing doc for some days, Debs had an AS flare up, and tara went to her grans funeral far away today. so the old peeps are along
[08:55] <superfly> Kilos: all good
[09:13] <Kilos> will try sort the secure connection thing another time
[09:13] <Kilos-> 16.04 kde is too pretty for me
[09:45] <sakhi> Hello ubuntu-za, I need to centrally manage all windows machines on the network, I would like to get the following informaiton: update status(patching), packages installed, cve status, Windows OS version installed per machine, is there a free tool I can use to achive this? Preferably open source.
[09:46] <superfly> sakhi: I haven't worked with Windows in over 10 years, I really don't know. Has Google been unfruitful?
[09:51] <sakhi> superfly: Not too fruitful on this one, last time I worked on Windows was in 2003 (MCSA-2k) let me see if I can put together something that will use snmp.
[10:09] <thatgraemeguy> sakhi: WSUS
[10:09] <thatgraemeguy> or whatever its modern equivalent is called, I've been out of that game for a fair while now
[10:10] <superfly> ah yes, that's the one I was thinking of. couldn't remember its name
[10:16] <sakhi> thatgraemeguy: thanks, not sure if WSUS is free, I will check it. The thought of managing Windows machines status through a Windows management system scares me :) RHN-Satelite(not free), Chef/Puppet or any other *nix Orchastration system would be great.
[10:16] <thatgraemeguy> its free
[10:17] <thatgraemeguy> managing a significant amount of windows infrastructure is best done using the native tools, you just aren't going to do it properly otherwise
[10:17] <sakhi> thatgraemeguy: wow Windows has free stuff too ;) the world will end.
[10:17] <sakhi> true
[10:19] <Kilos-> lol
[11:05] <Kilos> roabish2 do you ever chat to the guys here
[11:05] <Kilos> paddatrapper whats up lad
[11:43] <paddatrapper> Kilos: not much. I'm at work. Ho are you doing?
[11:43]  * superfly wonders what "work" is for paddatrapper
[11:43] <superfly> hi magespawn
[11:43] <magespawn> hi superfly
[11:45] <magespawn> Would you like some money?
[11:46] <paddatrapper> Lol. superfly it depends on what hat I'm wearing. Currently it is radio
[11:46] <superfly> magespawn: ah yes
[11:46] <superfly> paddatrapper: do you get paid for it?
[11:47] <paddatrapper> Nope. Student organisation...
[11:48] <paddatrapper> superfly: I realised I'm paid for very little of what I do...
[11:48] <superfly> paddatrapper: then it's not work, it's volunteering ;-)
[11:48] <superfly> magespawn: I sent you my bank details on Telegram
[11:49] <paddatrapper> superfly: I use work to describe most things I do that aren't me studying, doesn't yet have the negative connotation
[11:58] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[11:59] <Kilos> paddatrapper just keep doing things that teach you more
[12:10] <paddatrapper> Kilos: I certainly am. Friend of mine has a sysadmin job for me part time during Dec/Jan which I'm quite looking forward to.  Everyone seems sleepy
[19:21] <kulelu88> paddatrapper: yeah, nobody likes chatting here
[19:22] <paddatrapper> It's so quiet without Kilos
[19:22] <superfly> hi
[19:22]  * superfly is busy fixing stuff
[19:22] <superfly> well, writing tests, at the moment
[19:23] <kulelu88> unit tests ? :D
[19:23] <paddatrapper> Seems like people like chatting. Just it seems to be short
[19:23] <superfly> yup
[19:23] <paddatrapper> Hey superfly
[19:23] <superfly> hi kulelu88, paddatrapper
[19:23] <paddatrapper> OpenLP?
[19:23] <superfly> paddatrapper: yup
[19:23] <kulelu88> apparently for 1 of the testing libs you have to write OOP code to test other code
[19:24] <superfly> kulelu88: I like nose2 these days. you can either use unittest, or just plain test functions
[19:24] <superfly> a colleague likes pytest, but it's too magic for me
[19:24] <kulelu88> which lib allows the writing of tests as functions?
[19:25] <superfly> kulelu88: technically, you don't even need a test runner or a library write and run tests... it just makes it easier
[19:26] <superfly> kulelu88: I'm using http://nose2.readthedocs.io/
[19:26] <kulelu88> I like a bit of hand-holding :D
[19:26] <paddatrapper> OOP makes unit test building easier
[19:26] <superfly> paddatrapper: and slower. I've been writing test functions at work and it's actually simpler and easier
[19:26] <kulelu88> paddatrapper: you write OOP code mostly?
[19:27] <superfly> kulelu88: if you write any python it's OOP
[19:27] <superfly> whether you use classes or not is up to you
[19:27] <paddatrapper> kulelu88: yup. Started my programming journey with Java and I'm now so used to OOP that anything else just feels like scripting
[19:28] <superfly> paddatrapper: I'll help you unlearn that nonsense that Java teaches
[19:28] <superfly> paddatrapper: Java is not true OOP, Java is more COP
[19:28] <paddatrapper> Even c/c++ I just OOP for almost everything. It just makes more sense
[19:28] <kulelu88> My first experience with OOP was C++ and I'll never go back to it
[19:29] <superfly> kulelu88: oooo, C++ can be very pretty
[19:29] <superfly> especially if you use C++11 or C++14
[19:30] <paddatrapper> superfly: lol, it certainly is very verbose and now I wouldn't use it for anything outside of assignments and the occasional tomcat Java EE app
[19:30] <superfly> paddatrapper: no, seriously, Java dents your brain
[19:30] <superfly> it twists everything so badly that you have to unlearn what things like references are
[19:30] <kulelu88> I think most varsities still use Java in 2nd/3rd year
[19:31] <paddatrapper> I do like c++, though lately I'm having to deal with C projects which take OOP and throw it out the window
[19:31] <kulelu88> superfly: I tried to understand how functional code is different to writing functions and gluing them together and apparently, it is very very different :D
[19:31] <kulelu88> paddatrapper: have you tried imperative Go code?
[19:32] <paddatrapper> kulelu88: yup, at least at UCT second semester of first year is Java and so is first semester of second year. Then it's c++
[19:32] <paddatrapper> kulelu88: I haven't messed around with the newer languages really
[19:32] <kulelu88> #nim seems cool, but there's too much syntax magic going on.
[19:33] <paddatrapper> superfly: I really enjoyed moving to c++ from Java because of things like that. No more magic hidden behind the compiler
[19:33] <paddatrapper> kulelu88: never heard of it
[19:34] <kulelu88> paddatrapper: http://nim-lang.org/
[19:37] <kulelu88> reading through nim code again, it makes a lot more sense in 2016 then it previously did
[20:00] <MaNI> don't confuse the 'function' part in functional with typical programming functions, the function there refers more to function in the mathematical sense
[20:02] <kulelu88> MaNI: do you have a nice example showing how a function will look in: Python vs. Haskell ?
[20:03] <MaNI> I've never used haskell, functional languages I've had (minor) experience with include prolog and XSLT with only the second one being business world experience (i.e. not university junk)
[20:05] <kulelu88> aah. examples are sparse on the nets
[20:07] <MaNI> it's all about not having side effects basically, and most things are then recursive as a result
[20:07] <MaNI> i.e. if you call 'foo(5)' the output will always be the same, because there are no internal side effects to change the result - while in a language like python 'foo(5)' could return something different every time
[20:09] <MaNI> examples are sparse - because generally it makes no sense for regular programming, it's most heavily used in academia
[20:09] <MaNI> with a few rare exceptions
[20:10] <kulelu88> so recursive is critical to functional coding?
[20:10] <MaNI> pretty much
[20:12] <MaNI> e.g. see https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#Prolog for a fibonacci generator in prolog - it should remind you a lot of the actual mathematical way of showing such a dequence
[20:12] <MaNI> *sequence
[20:13] <MaNI> whereas in a language like c++ one would tend to avoid the recursion https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#C.2B.2B
[20:15] <MaNI> I tried very hard to like prolog in university, at some level it seems like a better way of thinking, but I couldn't for the life of me find any practical real world uses where c++ was not better, hehe
[20:22] <kulelu88> MaNI: as they say: functional code makes hard problems easy and easy problems hard
[20:22] <kulelu88> :P
[20:24] <MaNI> I found XSLT a bit better - but thats because it isn't pure functional, also it has a very niche purpose though I mean not general purpose
[20:24] <kulelu88> Elixir is quite nice MaNI
[20:28] <superfly> kulelu88: RabbitMQ and Wings3D are written in Erlang, take a look at them
[20:29] <kulelu88> superfly: as most programmers/hobbyists suffer from, jumping between projects is the issue
[20:31] <superfly> kulelu88: thankfully, I have one main project.
[20:32] <superfly> but yes, I'm still interested in a few sideline projects
[20:33] <kulelu88> I'm learning about async programming currently superfly . what is your main project?
[20:34] <superfly> kulelu88: OpenLP
[20:34] <superfly> https://openlp.org/
[20:34] <kulelu88> link?
[20:34] <kulelu88> cool
[20:50] <kulelu88> you plan on adding some funding model to it? superfly looks very polished
[20:51] <superfly> kulelu88: it's been around since 2004, but it could use more polish. we're not actively seeking funding, but we have paypal and gratipay
[20:51] <kulelu88> oh it's 12 years old. thought it was new
[20:51] <superfly> and the income from gratipay covers the server costs
[20:51] <superfly> kulelu88: it's been through a few iterations, but the current one has been around since 2008
[20:52] <kulelu88> python2?
[20:52] <superfly> started 2, now on 3
[20:52] <superfly> we moved to 3 at version 2.2
[20:52] <superfly> and moved to Qt5 at 2.4
[20:54] <kulelu88> what's the stats on the project? how many churches using it?
[20:56] <superfly> I don't know precisely. We have over 3000 fans on Facebook, so I'd say we probably have easily twice that using it?
[20:56] <superfly> a lot of people will just download, install, and then move on because it works
[20:56] <superfly> it's like using PowerPoint. you don't get all excited, you just use it
[20:59] <kulelu88> the man years to build it must be quite a bit by now
[21:00] <superfly> https://www.openhub.net/p/openlp
[21:01] <superfly> kulelu88: scroll down to "In a nutshell"
[21:02] <superfly> kulelu88: https://www.openhub.net/p/openlp/estimated_cost
[21:03] <superfly> that site is not all that accurate, because it's not really tracking all the code we have, but it gives you a good idea
[21:07] <kulelu88> yeah 2 million is about a low-level guesstimate
[21:09] <superfly> yup. I estimate my US-based salary would be about 100k per year, which ups the amount to 4 mil
[21:09] <kulelu88> what is your years experience as a python programmer?
[21:10] <superfly> about as long as OpenLP 2.x has been around, so about 8 years
[23:37] <Kilos> ai!