[22:34] <el> i did not miss having to smack this nonsense at all
[22:39] <genii> That was a pretty quick kline
[22:43] <el> his second in under 3 minutes
[22:45] <el> apologies, under 8 minutes


[00:00] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo everyone :)
[00:01]  * Hobbsee is here & watching
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> I am hoping this session can be more interactive then the last ;)
[00:01] <bodhi_zazen> Otherwise I was going to discuss a little on encryption
[00:02] <HymnToLife> sounds like fun
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> Here is the pastebin from 2 weeks ago
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/133993/
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> we covered some of the basics and I demoed apparmor in a shared ssh session
[00:02] <Snova> bodhi_zazen: I tried to log in just now, got errors regarding screen profiles.
[00:02] <bodhi_zazen> which I can do again if you wish
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> yes Snova , the shared screen session is kaput at the moment, but I can fix it if you wish
[00:03] <bodhi_zazen> I think ;)
[00:04] <bodhi_zazen> I updated the system for ecryptfs, and it borked the shared screen session
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> OK, try to join the shared session Snova ;)
[00:08] <bodhi_zazen> sorry this was not working
[00:09] <DasEi> bodhi_zazen: do you have the link of the last session ( I missed ?)
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> Let me ask if anyone has any questions then ?
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> DasEi: I do not know off the top of my head where the logs are
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> I can find them
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: do you know ?
[00:10] <Snova> Still broken.
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> :(
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> too bad
[00:11] <cprofitt> know what?
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> I can try one more thing ..
[00:11] <bodhi_zazen> cprofitt: where logs of these sessions are posted ?
[00:11] <cprofitt> the logs should be on the wiki page
[00:12] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Events
[00:12] <cprofitt> I did not get any for your last session though bodhi_zazen
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> oic, lol
[00:12] <HymnToLife> bodhi_zazen: I have a question
[00:12] <bodhi_zazen> please HymnToLife :)
[00:12] <HymnToLife> should I use DSA or RSA for my SSH keys? *evil grin*
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> to be honest I am not sure it matters
[00:13] <bodhi_zazen> That is like asking DROP or REJECT with iptables
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> If you use RSA (I think) use 1024 bits (whick is now default)
[00:14] <bodhi_zazen> do you have a preference ?
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> try again Snova ;)
[00:15] <bodhi_zazen> Lets talk a bit about encryption then ;)
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> do people know encryption options on Ubuntu ?
[00:16] <Snova> bodhi_zazen: Looks like the same thing again.
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> kk Snova :(
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> thanks
[00:16] <HymnToLife> bodhi_zazen: I prefer RSA
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> yes, in general I do too
[00:16] <HymnToLife> DSA has been developed by the NSA, and they have had shady practices
[00:16] <bodhi_zazen> it seems 70% prefer RSA
[00:17] <HymnToLife> also, since SSH-2 uses DSA only for host keys encryption
[00:17] <bodhi_zazen> Encryption options on Ubuntu are LUKS and ecryptfs
[00:17] <HymnToLife> using is also for user keys is kind of putting all your eggs in the same basket
[00:18] <HymnToLife> using it*
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> One can use truecrypt and other tools such as encryptfs and gpg
[00:18] <bodhi_zazen> To install an encrypted system, meaning / and swap are encrypted , use the Alternate CD
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> By default this will give you a /boot partition, and LVM + LUKS
[00:19] <bodhi_zazen> Post install or during the install, if you wish, you can use ecryptfs to encrypt your /home/user directory, swap, or a private (or other) directories
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> I posted a how to on ecryptfs here : http://bodhizazen.net/Tutorials/Ecryptfs/
[00:20] <bodhi_zazen> It still needs a bit of work, but the basic information is there
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> encryption is used basically to protect your personal data if your laptop or hard drive is stolden
[00:21] <bodhi_zazen> IMO things like password protecting yoru BIOS and GRUB is a minor deterrent if someone has physical access
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> Some people like those tools, and yes it may stop a casual intruder, but they are easily defeated
[00:22] <HymnToLife> also, if it comes down to it, some encryption tools can make encryption plausibly deniable
[00:22] <bodhi_zazen> The disadvantage of encryption is there is a, IMO, minor performance hit
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> +1 HymnToLife
[00:23] <HymnToLife> meaning that the police, government, etc. cannot *prove* you have encrypted stuff
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> he he he ...
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> Encryption can be defeated by a $ hammer applied to the solar plexus >:)
[00:23] <bodhi_zazen> * $10
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> Sometime you need to apply the hammer a few times for it to work
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[00:24] <bodhi_zazen> The other disadvantage of encryption would be if you lost your password or wanted to re-install preserving /home for example
[00:25] <bodhi_zazen> It can be done, but none of the installers will preserve /home automatically , even if it is on a separate partition and so you would need to take casre to configure the encryption manually post install
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> Frankly, IMO, it is easier to back up you data, re-install with the defaults, and then restore your data
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen>  /end rant on encryption
[00:26] <bodhi_zazen> :)
[00:26] <DasEi> also a more complicared access in case of harddrive-trouble can be added to the disadvantages
[00:27] <Hobbsee> actually, if you set a partition as /home, the installer won't try to auto-format it
[00:27] <Hobbsee> or at least, not on recent ubuntu releases.
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> Oh, one more thing, you can use keys with some encryption tools to automate decryption
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> No it will not Hobbsee , but I will not set up LUKS or encryptfs either
[00:27] <Hobbsee> that's true
[00:27] <bodhi_zazen> so post install you may not be able to decrypt it
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> :(
[00:28] <Hobbsee> that may not still be true for jaunty, btw.
[00:28] <bodhi_zazen> You need to take care with encryptfs if you encrypted /home/user_name because the information was stored on the root partition
[00:28] <maxb> Isn't all the "setup" for ecryptfs contained within the homedir anyway?
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> maxb: It depends on how you setup encryptfs
[00:29] <Snova> Is encryption only to protect if somebody gets physical access to the HD?
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> If you used encryptfs-setup-private you will be OK
[00:29] <maxb> bodhi_zazen: Are you talking about ecryptfs? If so, spell it's name right to avoid confusing us!
[00:29] <maxb> oops. I fail at apostrophe usage
[00:29] <bodhi_zazen> If you encrypted your home directory during installation, no , the key is on the root partition and linked back to $HOME
[00:30] <HymnToLife> Snova: in the case of ecryptfs, yes
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> so you will loose the config info if you install over the top of root
[00:30] <HymnToLife> however, there are other kinds of encryption
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> sorry, yes ecryptfs
[00:30] <bodhi_zazen> :p
[00:30] <HymnToLife> Snova: for example, you can encrypts files using GnuPG to send them by email
[00:31] <HymnToLife> (or to store them for later use)
[00:31] <maxb> Ah, right, I'm only using ecryptfs in private-subdir setup, because I disagree that encrypting the entire homedir makes sense
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> If your data is sensitive enough to encrypt -
[00:31] <Snova> I am fairly familiar with encryption in general, just wondering if there is any point to an encrypted *hard drive* (should have mentioned that previously) beyond physical access.
[00:31] <bodhi_zazen> 1. Know that if the data is decrypted, ie you mounted your Private directory or LUKS partition, or truecrypt
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> the data is available to the root user
[00:32] <HymnToLife> Snova: that the only one I can think of right now, but it's a pretty big one
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> or any other users allowed by your permissions
[00:32] <HymnToLife> especially nowadays when laptops are getting smaller and smaller, thus easier to lose/steal
[00:32] <bodhi_zazen> and 2. you should take care to encrypt your back ups as well :p
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> Snova: Only the paranoid would encrypt the entire installation
[00:33] <Snova> bodhi_zazen: Any amount of it, really.
[00:33] <bodhi_zazen> This would be to prevent someone for say installing a rootkit from a live CD
[00:33] <HymnToLife> bodhi_zazen: there are many good reasons to be paranoid nowadays
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> The two potential vulnerabilities with encryption are :
[00:34] <DasEi> and even then you'll need extra partitions or containers to avoid online-access
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> 1. Someone , in theory, could recover the key from RAM
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> 2. Your /boot partition is not encrypted so someone could replace your kernel
[00:34] <bodhi_zazen> +1 HymnToLife re paranoia
[00:35] <bodhi_zazen> Snova: for others , encrypting your private directory in /home , or a data partition, or removable device may be sufficient
[00:36] <bodhi_zazen> I guess my point is to raise awareness of the vulnerabilities of physical access and encryption as the best solution, IMO
[00:36] <HymnToLife> s/best/only/
[00:37] <HymnToLife> encryption is based on math, math never cheats ;)
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> Well, you could wipe the drive or smash it very fast as they are breaking down your door ;)
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> melt it
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> questions on encryption ?
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> hint - this is your chance to ask questions
[00:38] <bodhi_zazen> It sounds as if we have a few people here now who use encryption
[00:39] <HymnToLife> no, I don't!
[00:39] <HymnToLife> you can't prove anything!
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> Guilty by association
[00:39] <bodhi_zazen> Off with his head
[00:40] <DasEi> I just wonder how f.e. us-gpg needs a backdoor for nsa-related stuff, it is on ubuntu ?
[00:40] <bodhi_zazen> We could talk a bit about iptables, root kits, antivirus
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> I know antivirus is boring to some, but it is a FAQ on the forums
[00:41] <bodhi_zazen> Did anybody take a look at AppArmor ?
[00:42] <DasEi> too less, let's talk
[00:42] <HymnToLife> DasEi: if I understand your question, it's because the NSA doesn't like it when people use encryption they can't break :p
[00:42] <bodhi_zazen> too less ?
[00:43] <HymnToLife> well, they won't admit it, of course, but there's strong suspicion that the NSA-approve"d cryptosystems are the ones they can break
[00:43] <DasEi> I recognized appamor f.e. restricts file access of an apache, but are not familiar with it
[00:44] <HymnToLife> (hence why I don't use DSA for my SSH keys)
[00:44] <DasEi> HymnToLife: pm ? don't stop bod..
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> no, this is an open discussion
[00:44] <HymnToLife> well, you asked the question here, so I answer here :p
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> Or at least I hope so
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> DasEi: Apparmor can be used , and is most often used to "confine" network aware applications
[00:45] <HymnToLife> or really any application
[00:45] <DasEi> k, what I saw when mentioning harddrive encryption where different solutions ( I'm german), and from the same app, there are different releases, some of them are not legal in us
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> It has not been as popular as it *should* be , IMO
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> I posed a how to here : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1008906
[00:46] <HymnToLife> but the network-related ones are the one it makes most sense confining
[00:46] <HymnToLife> since they basically process untrusted data all the time
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> and I am starting to post some example profiles here : http://bodhizazen.net/aa-profiles/
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> Looking for contributions in face
[00:46] <bodhi_zazen> *fact
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> Apparmor vs SElinux is another issue sometimes debated
[00:47] <bodhi_zazen> Apparmor is easier to learn, but IMO takes more time to maintain
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> For example , you need to revise your profile when firefox is updated from 3.0.6 to 3.0.7
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> ;)
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> You have to keep an eye on apparmor, and there are no GUI tools in Ubuntu, although SUSE has some
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> Any questions / comments please jump in >:)
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> Shifting gears a little ...
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> Antivirus
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> IMO the biggest problem with antivirus is the sheer numbers of false postitives
[00:50] <bodhi_zazen> If you use antivirus and you do not want to simply delete detected files, you will have to do a fair amount of detective work
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> Example : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1106160
[00:51] <bodhi_zazen> Snova: can you try to connect again please ?
[00:51] <Snova> Ok. :)
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> nvr mind, it is still borked
[00:52] <Snova> bodhi_zazen: Yep. :)
[00:52] <bodhi_zazen> I had to update for ecryptfs , but it broke screen
[00:53] <HymnToLife> well, you can always experiment with AA by yourself in a virtual machine (so you don't get locked off your real system)
[00:53] <HymnToLife> the basic concepts are really not hard to grasp
[00:54] <HymnToLife> Novell advertises it as requiring only 1-2 days of training, I don't think they're very far from the truth
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> I agree with that
[00:54] <bodhi_zazen> I would say I am still learning, but it took me about 4 hours to become comfortable with it
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> The advantage of apparmor, it has the potential to stop zero day exploits
[00:55] <bodhi_zazen> We have 5 minutes left in this session ;)
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> I will run a session on this channel, same time, every 1-2 weeks depending in interest
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> From last week there was the suggestion we discuss permissions
[00:56] <bodhi_zazen> Now I know most of you know basic permissions, but we can review sticky bits and if you wish acl
[00:58] <DasEi> I#ve got a question to the initialization of apparmor
[00:58] <HymnToLife> basic SSH configuration might be a good topic too
[00:59] <HymnToLife> I'm thinking about Issues like that: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1107057
[00:59] <DasEi> what does this 'connecting to repository mean ? isn't this a local mechanism ?
[00:59] <HymnToLife> for those who want a bit more control than basic usernames/passwords
[00:59] <HymnToLife> DasEi: it means downloading a few pre-made profiles for common applications, IIRC
[01:00] <bodhi_zazen> DasEi: and HymnToLife we could have sessions on apparmor or ssh in more depth
[01:00] <bodhi_zazen> I happen to like ssh ;)
[01:01] <DasEi> HymnToLife: and it does for every app Iagain ?
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> DasEi: AppArmor was developed my Novell
[01:01] <HymnToLife> but now they fired all the aa devs :p
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> And I think the idea was to have a central repository for profiles
[01:01] <DasEi> deeper sessions.. gotta get coffeine.. great
[01:01] <HymnToLife> I heard some of them were working for Microsoft now
[01:01] <bodhi_zazen> for things such as say apache or what not
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> I do not think it has been developed, but it still comes up when you generate a profile
[01:02] <bodhi_zazen> aa was then added to Ubuntu and we will need to see how much it is used / developed
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> Otherwise we will be back to SELinux :p
[01:03] <HymnToLife> Mandriva uses AA too
[01:03] <DasEi> sry when bein annoying; apparmor follows an given app in the inital , then asks additional quests and then creates the profile, which can be altered manually again, so no need for external request..
[01:03] <HymnToLife> I think that's all
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> no DasEi
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> Most profiles need to be personalized anyways
[01:03] <bodhi_zazen> PCLinuxOS ?
[01:04] <bodhi_zazen> I have not tried that lately, but I though they were Mandriva based.
[01:04] <HymnToLife> I think so too, but I don't go in the RPM world often
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> OK, I will stay for a while if there are additional questions, otherwise 2 weeks
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> Any interest in having weekly sessions ?
[01:05] <DasEi> k, reading shall heal me for now, many thanks, bodhi_zazen and all the others
[01:05] <bodhi_zazen> topics : add them here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Proposals
[01:06] <bodhi_zazen> put my name by the topic and I will try to announce and cover them as we go
[01:06] <DasEi> bodhi_zazen: nothing bad, nice would be to follow up missed ons at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[01:06] <DasEi> *ones
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> In the long run the Beginners Team is hoping to do continued and more focused in depth sessions, perhaps using something such as Moodle
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> yes DasEi I thought ubuntu-classroom was going to post sessions, I will look into that
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> I do not have a way right now to log sessions
[01:07] <bodhi_zazen> as I am @ work and accessing over mibbit
[01:08] <DasEi> bodhi_zazen:they do, but last isn't there by now
[01:08] <bodhi_zazen> We shall look into it then DasEi
[01:08] <bodhi_zazen> but yes the intention is to post logs
[01:08] <bodhi_zazen> and grow these sessions
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> I am hoping to spread the word and get some discussion and education going.
[01:09] <DasEi> date -u was the greatest tip on UTC, writes this bold, lol
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> lol
[01:09] <bodhi_zazen> Thank you everyone for coming
[01:10] <DasEi> thank you for rowing
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> I shall spam channels with future meetings, but this time works out for most people, although not all
[01:10] <bodhi_zazen> I hope these sessions help educate people ;)
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> we should learn from each other, some people know very much
[01:11] <bodhi_zazen> we are planning to do sessions on wiki and development (packageing)
[08:14] <_Purple_> hi
[08:14] <_Purple_> is the Q and A still going on?
[10:48] <sanzilla> hi
[10:49] <sanzilla> is this is a newbie channel ?
[10:49] <pleia2> sanzilla: we use this channel for hosting classes (see the /topic for our resources), you want to use #ubuntu for tech questions
[10:50] <sanzilla> is other than ubunthu isn't welcome ?
[10:55] <_Purple_> sanzilla, looking for a channel for newbies?
[10:55] <sanzilla> yes
[10:56] <_Purple_> try #ubuntuforums-beginners
[10:56] <sanzilla> I mean a channel for general linux
[10:56] <sanzilla> I loving the xfe windows manager and not KDE
[10:56] <sanzilla> so I can't install ubunthu
[10:58] <pleia2> sanzilla: xubuntu is based on xfce
[10:59] <sanzilla> I will give up a try


[06:41] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[06:42] <MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
[06:43] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[07:42] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
[07:45] <diplo> Morning all
[08:13] <mungbean> i appeared to have accidentally drawn a picture of popey while prolifically doodling
[08:13] <mungbean> want to see it?
[08:13] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: time to put it online ;)
[08:13] <mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/RD9Tfbf.jpg
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: surprised popey even
[08:14] <mungbean> any resemblance to characters living or dead is entirely coincidental
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> Wheeeee
[08:35] <MartijnVdS>    2560x1080      60.0*+
[08:36] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:37] <MooDoo> morning bigcalm
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> http://martijn.vandestreek.net/~martijn/screenshot-huge.png
[08:43] <bigcalm> That's a rather wide screen
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it is :)
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> 21:9
[08:50] <mungbean> i have that but with a bezel inbetween
[08:51] <mungbean> cos i have 2 monitors :D
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> I don't like bezels
[08:52] <mungbean> and actually it is 2560x1024 10:4 on mine
[08:52] <AlanBell> nice MartijnVdS
[08:52] <AlanBell> is that a strandbeast on the beach?
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> no
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> just a some people walking
[08:58] <ivanka> hi MartijnVdS
[08:58] <ivanka> MartijnVdS, you know yesterday you said you look at website logs - does this mean you might know someone who is good at making wordpress sites run fast?
[08:59] <ivanka> hello Daviey
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> ivanka: not really, sorry
[08:59] <ivanka> MartijnVdS, okie dokes
[09:00] <neuro_> lol
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: you know how to speed up wordpress?
[09:01] <neuro_> yup
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> ivanka, neuro_; neuro_, ivanka 8-)
[09:02] <neuro_> haha
[09:02] <neuro_> long winded introduction and conversation unnecessary
[09:02] <neuro_> ivanka: http://wordpress.org/plugins/w3-total-cache/
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: "Reducing downward times!"
[09:04] <neuro_> indeed
[09:19] <BigRedS> neuro_, ivanka, we reccomend WP Super Cache. I've not yet been interested enough to know why we'd recommend that over something else
[09:20] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Kitchen Debate Day! :-D
[09:20] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Kitchen Debate Day?
[09:21] <JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> Wut?
[09:21] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Debate
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> ah, so it's not a discussion about what's for lunch
[09:22] <MooDoo> salad for me :)
[09:48] <mgdm> something to do with 24/7 ?
[09:49] <mgdm> oh, /me scrolls
[09:49] <mungbean> gumtree appears to be a site for chavs and chancers in life
[09:50] <MooDoo> mungbean: don't go on it then ;)
[09:51] <mungbean> but it haz the stuff ebay doesn't have :(
[09:51] <mungbean> = deals
[09:51] <MooDoo> then be a chav or a chancer in life ;)
[09:52] <mungbean> or unsuccessful at both
[09:52] <mungbean> i've never successfully made a purchase
[09:56] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:17]  * davmor2 randomly prods czajkowski just cause
[10:17]  * MartijnVdS deploys an infinite number of parachutes, just cause 2
[10:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: you being brave again this morning?
[10:19] <davmor2> MooDoo: It's a go day to be me.  Well for now at any rate, so I'm making the most of it by annoying czajkowski it just seemed like the thing to do :)
[10:19] <czajkowski> davmor2: boo
[10:22] <MooDoo> davmor2: awww leave the poor lass alone :)
[10:23]  * davmor2 prods Moodoo instead
[10:23] <MooDoo> davmor2: oi i'm not your abuse pole
[10:24] <davmor2> MooDoo: I'll go back to czajkowski then and stop complaining :P
[10:24] <MooDoo> yes boss
[10:27] <davmor2> so czajkowski how's life hows the new hens and is piripiri still putting them in their place?
[10:33] <czajkowski> so nugget is missing a chunk of feathers around her tail
[10:33] <czajkowski> but they seem to be a bit better today
[10:34] <MooDoo> czajkowski: getting snowed with eggs yet?
[10:35] <czajkowski> nope
[10:35] <czajkowski> had 1 a day so far since they arrived
[10:35] <czajkowski> not sure from which ones and it could take some time to settle after the move
[10:42] <CALAV3R4> I have 32 GB of RAM on a Server .... does anyone know how to go about the swap? 64GB and 32GB swap seems to much... any suggestions?
[10:43] <MooDoo> is it's normally about 2/3x the amount of ram?
[10:43] <MooDoo> then again it depends on what the server is doing
[10:44] <CALAV3R4> MooDoo, thank you... we really don't want any swapping but just in case.
[10:45] <MooDoo> yw!
[10:46] <mungbean> what's the best way for tab completion for favourite hostnames?
[10:46] <directhex> CALAV3R4, swap is not useful to you.
[10:47] <directhex> CALAV3R4, you don't want to suspend your server to disk, so that's not useful
[10:47] <SuperMatt> mungbean: it should automatically tab complete if it's in /etc/hosts or ~/.ssh/config
[10:47] <mungbean> .ssh/config it is then, cheers
[10:47] <SuperMatt> np
[10:47] <SuperMatt> .ssh/config is your friend
[10:47] <mungbean> (they are in DNS otherwise)
[10:47] <directhex> CALAV3R4, and by the time your server has swapped 32 or 64 or whatever gig of stuff out, it would have been faster to drive to the datacenter and press reboot, than wait for it to become responsive again under swap death conditions like that
[10:48] <SuperMatt> I've got mine set up detailing usernames, aliases, identity file to use, etc
[10:48] <SuperMatt> very handy
[10:48] <directhex> the old rules for swap size are only relevant for desktop/laptops, due to suspend to disk. even desktop/laptops have too much ram now for swapping to be helpful for actual "extra memory" reasons
[10:48] <mungbean> i should def do that, i've been lazy
[10:48] <SuperMatt> so I just type ssh live and I'm on my live server
[10:48] <SuperMatt> once you've done it once, of course, you need only add to it over time
[10:49] <mungbean> where's the man page?
[10:49] <mungbean> same as ssh_config?
[10:49] <mungbean> ~/.ssh/config This is the per-user configuration file.  The format of this file is described above.
[10:49] <mungbean> looks like it
[10:49] <SuperMatt> yup
[10:56] <MartijnVdS> New Computerphile video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6bDA5FK6gs
[10:56] <Laney> haha
[10:57] <Laney> these are all academics / students in the nottingham CS school
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> Laney: yeah, they are :)
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> Laney: some people from a local hackerspace, it seems
[10:57] <Laney> don't know why they haven't talked to anyone from the FP / theory group yet :(
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> Laney: ask Brady :)
[10:59] <ivanka> hey MartijnVdS, BigRedS and neuro_ I was in a meeting...I will check it out and get back to you. It's not for me directly, it is for my husband and it is potentially a paid gig
[10:59] <neuro_> ah, ok
[11:00] <neuro_> wp total cache definitely solves a lot of the constantly-dynamic issues that wp suffers from
[11:00] <neuro_> just need to be careful that it's tuned correctly for the required load and content
[11:04] <ivanka> neuro_, pm?
[11:15] <neuro_> looks like edge funding is slowing way down
[11:15] <mungbean> what is it now
[11:15] <neuro_> less than 200k in the last 8 hours
[11:15] <neuro_> 3.864m
[11:15] <mungbean> they screwed up with the double trouble offer
[11:15] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: rewards have been restructured
[11:15] <MooDoo> I'm not sure it'll hit 5
[11:15] <mungbean> if fully funded with double troubles, then phones at $700
[11:16] <neuro_> they've gone mad
[11:16] <mungbean> so why not just offer phones at $700
[11:16] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're offering phones at 625 now
[11:16] <mungbean> orly?
[11:16] <neuro_> you can get it at $625, $675, $725, $830 and 2x @ $1400
[11:16]  * mungbean checks
[11:17] <mungbean> hmm..this makes them look a bit unprepared/unplanned
[11:17] <neuro_> unless i'm missing something, there is absolutely no difference between any of them, other than the 1400 one being for 2 phones
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge?c=activity
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> ^ the plan
[11:17] <neuro_> why buy 100 for 80,000 when you can buy 100 for 62,500
[11:17] <mungbean> also, the enterprise bundle is not economic
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> but you also get support with that bundle
[11:18] <mungbean> just stop being silly and offer all phones @ 630
[11:18] <mungbean> customers need to know where they stand
[11:18] <neuro_> "You told us you want more opportunities to get the Ubuntu Edge at a lower contribution level, so we went back to our spreadsheets and came up with a solution."
[11:18] <neuro_> the solution is to just leave it alone
[11:19] <mungbean> Hundreds of you have already contributed $830 for an Ubuntu Edge, but don’t worry. We’ll refund the difference at the end of the campaign so you won’t lose out.
[11:19] <mungbean> this makes them look silly tbh
[11:19] <neuro_> WHAT!
[11:19] <neuro_> i didn't notice that
[11:19] <neuro_> this is sheer confusion
[11:19] <mungbean> who decided this?
[11:20] <MooDoo> isn't it all really just a test of the water to see if people are really interested?  I could never seeing them make 30m
[11:20] <mungbean> MooDoo: it's 40,000 phones, which could happen if the price was $5-600 or thereabouts
[11:20] <neuro_> this is a poor way to test the water
[11:21] <neuro_> these "perk levels" should have been implemented from the start
[11:21] <mungbean> look at the funders list
[11:21] <neuro_> or not at all
[11:21] <mungbean> some are paying 655, others 625
[11:21] <mungbean> confusion reigns
[11:21] <MooDoo> at least they can then say "ah well we tried and people weren't interested"
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> 655 = 625 + 30 int. shipping
[11:21] <mungbean> ah
[11:24] <neuro_> but people obviously are interested
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> but are enough people interested for it to be a real thing
[11:24] <MooDoo> 32m is too high imo
[11:25] <AlanBell> the enterprise bundle has more problems than just being more expensive than buying them individually
[11:25] <mungbean> i like to see people having a plan
[11:25] <mungbean> this does not look like a plan
[11:25] <neuro_> AlanBell: yeah, we were talking about this yesterday
[11:25] <MooDoo> but then again I read somewhere that orange or someone similar did a similar thing and to produce a new phone it actually takes 50m so they are doing it a lot cheaper
[11:26] <neuro_> you're supposed to get a capex and deployment approval for something based on a) whether or not it actually gets manufactured and shipped, and b) meets its release date, and it's 10 months away ...
[11:27] <neuro_> oh and if your deployment is successful, you can never buy any more
[11:27] <neuro_> and if one of them is dropped and smashes beyond repair, you can never buy a replacement
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> or just have a rich employer who likes to gamble and give away toys
[11:28] <neuro_> in which case the included workshops and 30 days of support are useless
[11:28] <neuro_> you'd be cheaper off just buying a bunch of them at the lower tiers
[11:28] <mungbean> is the weather nice out?
[11:28] <neuro_> no
[11:28] <mungbean> blue sky in london, unsure if warm
[11:29] <neuro_> it's too warm/cold/sunny/cloudy/dry/wet/blue/green/fishy
[11:29] <MooDoo> oi it's never to fishy ;)
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://www.weeronline.nl/Europa/Groot-Brittannie/Londen/4163337
[11:29] <neuro_> hehe
[11:29] <neuro_> GROOT!
[11:29] <neuro_> STROOPWAFEL!
[11:30] <mgdm> mmmm stroopwaffels
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> hmmm stroopwafels
[11:30]  * mgdm ^5 MartijnVdS
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> ^5
[11:30] <neuro_> since when did ^ = 5?
[11:31] <neuro_> err, s/5/high/
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> since forever/
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> ?
[11:31] <neuro_> never mind
[11:31] <neuro_> don't care
[11:31] <neuro_> just opened a pack of french crisps
[11:31] <neuro_> Saveur Bolognaise
[11:32] <neuro_> om nom
[12:10] <HoT|2fC^> hey up everyone :)
[12:12] <HoT|2fC^> I got my DL380 G3 today it has a 36GB SCSI Hard Drive, now in the BIOS at POST screen it detects it but when I go to boot from CD/ROM on Windows XP Pro 32Bit, it says to me no Hard Drive detected please check its connected and make sure its setup via BIOS.
[12:12] <HoT|2fC^> I have phoned the company where I got it from he said does the light come on the BAY, I said yes, so he then said what color is it I said its "Green" he said OK thats working then and its detecting it in the BIOS/POST Screen!
[12:13] <AlanBell> how is that an Ubuntu question?
[12:13] <HoT|2fC^> he then said it should install XP no problem, I said I am about to try Ubuntu 13.04 Server edition he said try that an it should boot and install, if not let him know he will find out why and he said it might be something to do with where the SCSI is connecting to.
[12:13] <AlanBell> ah, thats how :)
[12:14] <HoT|2fC^> yeah AlanBell lol, its more of a BIOS / BOOT / ANY OS tbh lol I just need it to work hhaa.
[12:14] <AlanBell> so, does it work in Ubuntu?
[12:14] <DJones> Could be that win xp cd hasn't got the right driver for the scsi hardware
[12:15] <HoT|2fC^> DJones sounds so true :) it is a copy off Torrent as a .iso already activated. but yeah hopefully it boots off the ubuntu in a minute when I burn it to disc.
[12:15] <HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, not as yet :)
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: there's a "Have driver disk" prompt at install time for a reason ;)
[12:16] <AlanBell> !piracy
[12:16] <HoT|2fC^> oops sorry.
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> just stick to Ubuntu :)
[12:17] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, yeah it detects it as Compaq 36.6GB's (SCSI)
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: I just got off the phone with the stone age. They want their machine back.
[12:17] <HoT|2fC^> It's formatted I can't see it not installing to be honest, it boots fine!
[12:17] <HoT|2fC^> :O
[12:18] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, whos machine :D
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: Gnork the caveman
[12:18] <DJones> HoT|2fC^: You have your answer then, install Ubuntu & relax
[12:19] <HoT|2fC^> DJones, I hope so yeah :)
[12:19] <davmor2> HoT|2fC^: for windows xp there is an option during the initial cd run like F1 or something to install 3rd party drivers if it is a scsi device these are almost always needed.
[12:19] <HoT|2fC^> the guy even said it on the phone lol, it says in BIOS (OS Type) and a list of OS/S... shell I select "Linux"
[12:20] <HoT|2fC^> davmor2: Ahhh yes I always noticed that at the start lol, always wondered what that F6 or something or other does LOL
[12:20] <HoT|2fC^> you are a lifesaver :D
[12:21] <HoT|2fC^> I just let it scan all that at the start an wait then it comes up with the detected hard drive thing saying F3 to reboot.
[12:22] <HoT|2fC^> right brb :D
[12:22] <HoT|2fC^> wish me luck!!
[12:23] <davmor2> quick everyone hide
[12:23] <davmor2> :D
[12:27] <Azelphur> If you delete a rm, it doesn't delete the files it points to, right?
[12:30] <mungbean> huh?
[12:35] <Myrtti> yeah that would sound about the right reaction to that question
[12:37] <MooDoo> Azelphur: can you be a little clearer?
[12:37] <MooDoo> Azelphur: do you mean a symlink?
[12:37] <Azelphur> wow, haha
[12:37] <Azelphur> I really mangled that sentence didn't I
[12:37] <MooDoo> yeah
[12:38] <MooDoo> :)
[12:38] <Azelphur> but yea, I did mean a symlink, and I figured it out, couldn't delete it because it wasn't a symlink :)
[12:38] <MooDoo> i'm impressed i interpreted rm as symlink lol
[12:39] <Azelphur> haha
[12:39] <Azelphur> does anyone else do that? you go to type something, then you make a correction, but you mess it up and just end up with a totally mangled sentence that makes no sense.
[12:39] <Azelphur> I do it occasionally \o/
[12:39] <DJones> I was trying to work out how you delete something if you'd deleted the rm command
[12:40] <Azelphur> hahaha
[12:41] <mgdm> /bin/unlink
[12:41] <mgdm> or write a python script :-)
[12:42] <Azelphur> DJones: mv file /dev/null? ;)
[12:43] <MooDoo> format and reinstall Azelphur that'll definately delete the file.
[12:43] <Azelphur> haha
[12:43] <MooDoo> It's what I do ;)
[12:43] <Azelphur> MooDoo: funny enough, that's what I'm actually doing, just taking backups at the moment ;)
[12:44] <MooDoo> Azelphur: backups?  you a man or a mouse ;)
[12:45] <Azelphur> a mouse, full drive backups >.<
[12:45] <Azelphur> in multiple locations, too
[12:45] <MooDoo> lol I can't talk, I'm paranoid about backups :D
 quick everyone hide
 :D
[12:55] <HoT|2fC^> Tuttut ;)
[12:56] <mungbean> resize2fs of ext4 ? umount first?
[12:56] <SuperMatt> yup
[12:56] <SuperMatt> always
[12:56] <SuperMatt> personally, I tend to do my stuff with gparted running off a usb or cd
[12:56] <SuperMatt> because I don't trust my fingers
[12:57] <mungbean> it does work though...
[12:57] <HoT|2fC^> Well im back so best get out of your hiding places haha, well I have tried booting Windows XP, pressed F6 for third party SCSI drivers and what do you know no luck at all I get a message asking me to put a Disk in but A? thats floppy lol I dont have a floppy with drivers on it so I dont know why its not letting me get them off the disc, anyway says about the SCSI wont work with Windows XP,
[12:57] <HoT|2fC^> so I tried Ubuntu and what do you know its on a DVD :( I have a CD/ROM not DVD/ROM.
[12:57] <HoT|2fC^> I am going to burn the Ubuntu 13.04 Server.iso to a CDR now.
[12:58] <HoT|2fC^> Then I should be able to boot linux !
[12:58] <mgdm> HoT|2fC^: will your machine boot off a USB stick?
[12:59] <neuro_> i'll boot YOUR stick
[12:59] <HoT|2fC^> mgdm, no as its old :(
[12:59] <HoT|2fC^> I have ILO :/
[12:59] <neuro_> 13.04 server?
[12:59] <HoT|2fC^> I can boot from CD/ROM only :(
[12:59] <neuro_> *boggle*
[12:59] <HoT|2fC^> neuro_, yes.
[13:00] <neuro_> y u no install lts?
[13:00] <HoT|2fC^> ubuntu-13.04-server-amd64 <-- that one for my Xeons.
[13:00] <HoT|2fC^> LTS? Whats that one about, isnt it a Beta or something \o/
[13:00] <neuro_> you jest, yes?
[13:00] <HoT|2fC^> jest? :o
[13:01] <HoT|2fC^> I haven't tested it no, hence why I am here lol.
[13:01] <HoT|2fC^> I need to get it installed!
[13:01] <HoT|2fC^> brb
[13:06]  * HoT|2fC^ is burning Ubuntu 13.04 Server to a non-DVD disc :)
[13:09] <HoT|2fC^> Whats difference with LTS and normal Ubuntu 13.04 Server ?
[13:09] <neuro_> oh, you were being serious
[13:09] <neuro_> sorry, i thought you were making a joke :)
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: 12.04 is LTS, 13.04 isn't
[13:09] <neuro_> LTS is Long Term Support, it's supported longer
[13:09] <neuro_> 8.04, 10.04, 12.04 are all LTS
[13:10] <neuro_> 14.04 will be as well
[13:10] <neuro_> they are supported for 7 years
[13:10] <neuro_> iirc non-LTS releases are only supported for 18 months
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> i.e. one internet century
[13:10] <neuro_> shush
[13:10] <HoT|2fC^> :O
[13:10] <HoT|2fC^> I see ok ok :D
[13:10] <neuro_> so basically you'll get longer support for package updates for security etc with an LTS release
[13:10] <MooDoo> and lts doesn't use cutting edge versions of the software
[13:10] <HoT|2fC^> I will just use this for now to test if it works then I will go for 13.04 LTS thanks there neuro_
[13:10] <neuro_> downside is "poorer" hardware support
[13:10] <neuro_> 13.04 is not LTS
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: well, it's cutting edge at the time of release
[13:10] <neuro_> 12.04 is
[13:11] <HoT|2fC^> LoL
[13:11] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: well yes but 12.04 isn't now :ed
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: and they do "hardware support upgrade" now, with newer kernels and X
[13:11] <neuro_> oh yeah
[13:11] <neuro_> quantal kernels
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> raring kernels even
[13:11]  * MooDoo doesn't need anything other than LTs
[13:11] <HoT|2fC^> Ok ok, thats enuff now just help me get it installed on my server using SCSI hard drive lol
[13:11] <neuro_> burn disc, put disc in optical drive, boot
[13:12] <MooDoo> neuro_: behave it can't be that easy ;)
[13:12] <neuro_> that's how i do it :)
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the "Server" doesn't install the GUI bits, but does offer several server-specific options
[13:12] <MooDoo> neuro_: you're magical we're only human ;)
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: the "Desktop" ISOs install the Ubuntu desktop you know and love
[13:12] <neuro_> if no optical drive, go to currys, buy cheap usb dvd drive, put disc in cheap usb dvd drive, install
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> 'Yer a wizard, neuro_'
[13:12] <neuro_> abracadabra
[13:13] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, ah ok ok so easy 7 steps then? till I get to the GUI bit :D
[13:13] <MooDoo> shhhhhhh all he's at the burn the disk stage, it's a difficult one that ;)
[13:13] <neuro_> no GUI in server install
[13:13] <HoT|2fC^> :(
[13:13] <neuro_> text mode
[13:13] <neuro_> it's easy
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> \o/ text mode
[13:13] <neuro_> \o/
[13:13] <HoT|2fC^> is it all command ?
[13:13] <neuro_> server is text mode by default
[13:13] <HoT|2fC^> I dont know any commands well I do..
[13:13] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: yes unless you install a gui
[13:13] <HoT|2fC^> sudo get makeme a butty
[13:14] <HoT|2fC^> MooDoo, damn :(
[13:14] <neuro_> i would stop right now
[13:14] <neuro_> if you don't know what you're doing
[13:14] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: why do you need a gui?
[13:14] <HoT|2fC^> MooDoo, I want a easy install all I want is to get a distro on my server.
[13:14] <MooDoo> cd and vi are your friends ;)
[13:14] <HoT|2fC^> using SCSI.
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> emacs runs fine in text mode
[13:14] <HoT|2fC^> mmm
[13:14] <neuro_> don't worry about scsi
[13:14] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: then you don't need a gui
[13:14] <neuro_> ubuntu treats everything as scsi ;)
[13:14] <HoT|2fC^> good! :D
[13:15] <HoT|2fC^> when I install ubuntu server now when do I need to do ??
[13:15] <MooDoo> I'm talking to you now from a server running command line irc :D
[13:15] <HoT|2fC^> is it easy
[13:15] <HoT|2fC^> lol MooDoo
[13:15] <neuro_> HoT|2fC^: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server/install-ubuntu-server
[13:15] <neuro_> READ
[13:15] <HoT|2fC^> OK
[13:15] <HoT|2fC^> :D
[13:15] <MooDoo> HoT|2fC^: get the iso and burn it to a cd, then boot the server with it in the drive, and follow the on screen prompts easy :d
[13:16] <HoT|2fC^> Seems easy :)
[13:16] <HoT|2fC^> ok here goes..
[13:16] <HoT|2fC^> be right back
[13:16]  * HoT|2fC^ runs to the basement
[13:17] <MooDoo> should we have told him about the crickets? ;)
[13:17] <MartijnVdS> and the spiders
[13:17] <neuro_> I'M RARED RAGGY!
[13:18] <neuro_> Me too, Scoob!
[13:18] <mungbean> online resize went ok
[13:19] <mgdm> brave :)
[13:20] <mungbean> i don't have control of the VMware to snapshot it
[13:22] <mungbean> 4.25M ...
[13:22] <mungbean> sold quite a few more phones today
[13:23] <directhex> mungbean, price dropped a lot too
[13:23] <directhex> sliding scale now
[13:24] <mungbean> pay what you want ;)
[13:24] <mungbean> humble indie phoe
[13:25] <bigcalm> neuro_: I'm still unable to get my head around routing for this project, but the good news is that the buck has been passed to the client to sort out :D We've got the VPN set-up, now they can deal with routing
[13:25] <neuro_> \o/
[13:26] <bigcalm> That's what I did when I call the call about it from my boss
[13:26] <neuro_> the fobbed off happy dance :)
[13:26] <bigcalm> s/call/got
[13:26] <bigcalm> Heh
[13:26] <neuro_> humble indie phone, lol
[13:27] <neuro_> hmm, i'm just firing in my shopping into tesco.com and i note on their front page, they think i'm some sort of english picnicking mentlar
[13:27] <neuro_> half price ice cream! half price cheese! 2 for £1 on salad!
[13:27] <neuro_> and the kicker
[13:28] <neuro_> PIMMS 1l ONLY £16!
[13:28] <neuro_> uh, ok
[13:28] <neuro_> i think i've drunk pimms twice in my whole life
[13:28] <neuro_> albeit once for an extended session
[13:28] <mgdm> I don't think I've ever had Pimms
[13:28] <neuro_> it is a silly drink
[13:29] <MooDoo> it tastes like barley sugar sweets if you add it to lemonade
[13:29] <neuro_> but when you're at a work event in brighton, and people keep handing you glasses of it, you tend not to say no
[13:29] <mgdm> MooDoo: that doesn't sound too bad actually, I like barley sugars :)
[13:30] <neuro_> this stuff is epic, by the way: http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=266352446
[13:30] <neuro_> copella apple juice
[13:35] <neuro_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/23/ubuntuforums_cracker_promises_no_password_release/
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: sure, "promise"
[13:37] <mungbean> oh we're supposed to think he's great now?
[13:38] <Myrtti> pimms is nice if you make it into proper nice ginger ale
[13:38] <Myrtti> not Schweppes, mind you
[13:39] <diddledan> pimms is evil
[13:39] <diddledan> I don't like it
[13:39] <mungbean> doesn't bother me either way
[13:39] <mungbean> its ok in a cold drink
[13:40] <mungbean> not particularly exciting though
[13:47] <diddledan> $360,440 has been raised through the $20 founder perk?!
[13:48] <mungbean> cool
[13:48] <diddledan> that's if everyone at that level only contributed $20
[13:48] <mungbean> some did $100, others $1 others $30
[13:48] <diddledan> 1822 claims @ $20 = $360,440
[13:49] <diddledan> this campaign is getting crazy!
[13:49] <diddledan> <3
[13:49] <mungbean> caught someone on camera going into my office reading confidential docs
[13:49] <diddledan> oops
[13:49] <mungbean> unsure how to proceed
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: where I work, I'd notify the internal security team
[13:50] <diddledan> "forged aboud id"
[13:51] <diddledan> are they employed by your company or just a random stranger?
[13:51] <mungbean> employee
[13:51] <mungbean> he will say he was looking for something
[13:51] <diddledan> that actually helps. you can follow disciplinary procedures.
[13:51] <mungbean> its a locked room
[13:52] <diddledan> perhaps he accidentally unlocked it, accidentally opened the door, and accidentally found a confidential piece of paper, and accidentally read it thoroughly
[13:53] <mungbean> yes
[13:53] <mungbean> think i will sit on it for a bit
[13:53] <davmor2> he didn't realise he was employed there as he gets a paycheck from the nsa
[13:53] <diddledan> lol
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: tripped, fell on the key, tumbled onto the lock, and then hit the handle
[13:57] <bigcalm> Steak T-4.5 hours
[13:57] <MartijnVdS> 0xDEADBEEF?
[13:58] <bigcalm> Best kind
[14:00] <diddledan> 0xDEADBEEFCAFE
[14:00] <diddledan> that's a steakhouse
[14:00] <MartijnVdS> 0xDEADBEEFCAFEBABE is the waitress
[14:00] <diddledan> lol
[14:01] <HoT|2fC^> damn :( when I try and boot Ubuntu 13.04 Server I get this for ages and I have to press the power button on the server to turn it off and power back up again for further attemps :( http://i40.tinypic.com/5fm59g.jpg
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: looks like it doesn't like your CD
[14:02] <neuro_> mungbean: it's a potential security and confidentiality breach
[14:02] <neuro_> it's gross misconduct and possibly criminal
[14:02] <HoT|2fC^> But with windows it boots :/ I have tried selecting the Operating System Type to Linux and also tried Other OS, and Windows XP seems to boot under Windows 2000, 2003 etc..
[14:02] <neuro_> call the guy's boss and your HR department now
[14:04] <mungbean> this is all true but kicking up a stink often ends with a game of politics
[14:04] <HoT|2fC^> My uncle says for Windows I need the driver for the controller card and probably be "Adaptec Controller" or "Texas Instruments".
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: forget about Windows
[14:04] <mungbean> he'll say "i thought the office had been vacated"
[14:04] <HoT|2fC^> But it gets me why it won't boot my Ubuntu Discs, I tried Ubuntu 13.04 Desktop that run fine on my PC I have it on here.
[14:05] <HoT|2fC^> I have burnt a new one and still no luck :/
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: don't second-guess what he'll say
[14:05] <mungbean> but politics...
[14:05] <HoT|2fC^> Im doomed.
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: but security
[14:08] <mungbean> but nobody has ever been disciplined for anything here ever
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Poison his coffee.
[14:09] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: or just make it look (to him) like you did ;)
[14:09] <HoT|2fC^> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodNameId=3288130&prodTypeId=0&prodSeriesId=316529&swLang=13&taskId=135&swEnvOID=1005#113214
[14:10] <HoT|2fC^> Do I need this MartijnVdS the HP ProLiant 64-Bit/66-Mhz Dual Channel Wide Ultra3 SCSI Controller Driver for Windows Server 2003
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: what happened when you tied?
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> tried*
[14:11] <HoT|2fC^> tried to what install XP
[14:11] <HoT|2fC^> Asked for a floppy disc drive A: lol
[14:11] <diplo> HoT|2fC^: You're not even getting that far, it's not booted the server disc yet..
[14:11] <HoT|2fC^> when I hit F6
[14:11] <HoT|2fC^> diplo, gatherd that.
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you can put the drivers onto the Windows CD I think
[14:12] <diplo> All the drivers that you probably require are built into the kernel
[14:12] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, ah I see ok..
[14:12] <diplo> Issue with the disc or cd/dvd drive maybe..
[14:12] <davmor2> no you just need to put the drivers onto a floppy disk
[14:13] <HoT|2fC^> yeah davmor2 like I have any of those \o/
[14:13] <HoT|2fC^> I don't even have a floppie disc drive to write a floppy disc.
[14:13] <diddledan> I've got hundreds of the buggers
[14:13] <HoT|2fC^> Only on my server that I got today!
[14:13] <diddledan> I really want to archive all my 5.25" floppies
[14:14] <directhex> windows NT 5 - i.e. XP, 2000, and 2003 - can only add extra drivers either from a floppy diskette in drive A:, or via modifying the install CD to include the extra driver directly
[14:14] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS I will have to do it the way you said, Do I just burn the files to the disc with the .iso :/
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: Microsoft has a huge knowledge base which contains answers to that question
[14:14] <diplo> diddledan: that's what minions at work are for, got one of ours to do all ours a few years ago
[14:14] <directhex> you can't just put the driver files on the CD, you need to use a tool to mangle all the driver databases on there to see the new driver
[14:14] <directhex> nLite is one such tool
[14:15] <mungbean> go to the dump
[14:15] <mungbean> throw them in
[14:15] <diddledan> aha, burn the iso as a file is the wrong way
[14:15] <diddledan> you don't "put the iso on the disc"
[14:15] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[14:15] <diddledan> you "write the disc FROM the iso"
[14:16] <HoT|2fC^> ok I will use the nLite directhex :)
[14:17] <HoT|2fC^> What do you say is good burning tool for Windows? :o
[14:17] <neuro_> aaaaaaaaaargh
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: ##windows
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: we're the Ubuntu channel
[14:17] <HoT|2fC^> Been there no reply off anyone :)
[14:17] <neuro_> sorry, just rattled some more bolognaise crisps :)
[14:17] <neuro_> TASTY!!!!
[14:17] <HoT|2fC^> I know you are, but I use Ubuntu also and I dont see the problem :D
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: THen please try google first :) Most of your questions are page-one google answers
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> are/have
[14:18] <AlanBell> HoT|2fC^: the problem is we probably don't know
[14:18] <HoT|2fC^> lol
[14:18] <HoT|2fC^> Ok thanks :)
[14:18] <diddledan> HoT|2fC^: you need to right-click the downloaded iso and click "burn disc image"
[14:18] <neuro_> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/burn-a-dvd-on-windows
[14:18] <AlanBell> if windows has not got a support community around it then use an operating system that does
[14:18] <neuro_> no, actually, this is a fair question
[14:19] <HoT|2fC^> It's on CDR :) I dont have a DVD ROM on my server its CD ROM :)
[14:19] <neuro_> because how do you install ubuntu if you don't have it
[14:19] <AlanBell> maybe one day Windows will be popular enough that there will be answers to questions
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: magic
[14:19] <neuro_> and that's why there's a page on how to burn the disc
[14:19] <mungbean> ubuntu-edge could hit £5M today?
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> well there's http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/burn-a-cd-or-dvd-from-an-iso-file
[14:19] <neuro_> HoT|2fC^: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/burn-a-dvd-on-windows
[14:19] <diddledan> mungbean: I hope
[14:19] <HoT|2fC^> thanks :D
[14:19] <diddledan> I want my phone already
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: wait a year
[14:19] <diddledan> how long is the development gonna take? :-p
[14:20] <neuro_> minus two months
[14:20] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: plus delays
[14:20] <neuro_> DOES NO-ONE READ ANYTHING ANY MORE?!
[14:20] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: 1) read indiegogo page
[14:20] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: 2) enlightenment
[14:20] <diddledan> 3) profit?
[14:21] <neuro_> 3<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:21] <neuro_> mungbean: 5m?
[14:21] <neuro_> mungbean: doubt it
[14:21] <neuro_> it was at 3.4m at 4am
[14:21] <diddledan> neuro_: shut up and take my money! :-p
[14:21] <neuro_> diddledan: you can give your money to me, certainly
[14:21] <diddledan> lol
[14:22] <mungbean> and its 4.2m 12hrs later
[14:22] <diddledan> mungbean: 4.480
[14:22] <neuro_> oh, i hadn't refreshed for a while
[14:23] <mungbean> wowzer
[14:23] <davmor2> man the 625 batch is nearly sold out
[14:24] <mungbean> should be a lesson to them
[14:24] <mungbean> keep the price at that point
[14:25] <ivanka> I like this view: http://ubuntu-edge.info/
[14:25] <czajkowski> aloha
[14:25] <ivanka> People do like a bargain
[14:25] <ivanka> hi czajkowski
[14:25] <mungbean> i expect 25% of funds are raised on 1st and last day
[14:26] <neuro_> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5031267/ubuntu-seeks-crowd-funding-for-ubuntu-edge-smartphone.html
[14:26] <neuro_> "boffins"
[14:26] <czajkowski> ivanka: hows the travels going ?
[14:27] <mungbean> neuro_: most dumbed down article ever. how many readers?
[14:27] <ivanka> neuro_, the sun?
[14:27] <neuro_> how should i know? :)
[14:27] <mungbean> 2-3M
[14:27] <ivanka> has ubuntu ever been mentioned in the sun before?
[14:28] <ivanka> czajkowski, not really travelling - going away in september though
[14:28] <ivanka> czajkowski, mostly resting, kayaking, and doing bits of work
[14:28] <neuro_> "Your search returned 0 results"
[14:28] <ivanka> how are you?
[14:28] <neuro_> which is interesting since there's an article today
[14:28] <ivanka> neuro_, heh
[14:28] <ivanka> more reasons not to trust the sun
[14:30] <czajkowski> ivanka: oh nice, working away here in the new job
[14:30] <czajkowski> popping to the bluefin in abit to see some folks
[14:30] <ivanka> what new job?
[14:31] <ivanka> something exciting?
[14:31] <neuro_> MONNNNNGGGOOOOOOOOOOOO!
[14:33] <SuperMatt> db
[14:34] <SuperMatt> I am getting the strangest results on a webserver test I'm doing
[14:34] <SuperMatt> so, I'm doing an apache benchmark of the website, and recording the results
[14:35] <SuperMatt> I then do the same thing again, but with the website behind a mod-proxy instance
[14:35] <SuperMatt> naturally the response times go up, by about 200ms on average
[14:35] <SuperMatt> so far so good
[14:36] <SuperMatt> *then* I enable mod-security on that proxy server, and the response times are not only lower that that of just the proxy on it's own, but it's *lower* than the original results of no proxy, no mod-sec
[14:38] <diddledan> maybe cached file reads
[14:38] <diddledan> ?
[14:39] <SuperMatt> nope, there's no caching
[14:39] <diddledan> I don't know if linux caches at the filesystem layer or not
[14:39] <SuperMatt> even so, with mod-security enabled, *everything* should take longer
[14:39] <SuperMatt> because it should be scanning all the requests
[14:44] <mungbean> how do i read a base-64 email?
[14:44] <SuperMatt> isn't that just an attachment?
[14:44]  * SuperMatt doesn't know
[14:44] <MartijnVdS> decode it ;)
[14:44] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: put it in python, .decode('base64') it
[14:45] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: uudeview package contains a command line decoder
[14:45] <mungbean> chars
[14:47] <diddledan> 4.618M
[14:47] <diddledan> it's got to slow down soon, right?!
[14:47] <MooDoo> already is i'm guessing
[14:48] <mungbean> slows looks like 5M easily by midnight then
[14:49]  * davmor2 pictures neuro_ in his best blazing saddles impression saying that Mongo earlier
[14:49] <diddledan> "candygram for mongo"
[14:50] <davmor2> Mongo like candy
[15:01] <czajkowski> ivanka: community manager in EMEA for MongoDB
[15:01] <czajkowski> ivanka: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
[15:05] <davmor2> sheriff mongo is coming!
[15:42] <popey> $morning
[15:43] <SuperMatt> hullo
[15:43] <davmor2> popey:
[15:43] <davmor2> popey: How's oscon treating you?  I am setting up the live stream as we type
[15:48] <mungbean> 1309 out of 1250 claimed
[15:48] <diddledan> that's clever
[15:49] <mungbean> but at laest they've got the SOLD OUT sign up now
[15:52] <diplo> Can someone tell me if this is accesible ?
[15:52] <diddledan> only 240k till 5M
[15:52] <diplo> http://<IP_ADDRESS>
[15:53] <diddledan> diplo: timeout
[15:53] <diplo> kk ta
[15:54] <diplo> aha, lot's of stuff been played with on router
[15:54] <diplo> Should work now ?
[15:54] <diddledan> It works!
[15:54] <diplo> ta fanx
[15:54] <diddledan> I wonder how many webservers leave that page up?
[15:55] <diddledan> I believe all the servers at my work will be displaying that page for HTTP/1.0 and IP-based and incorrect hostname access
[15:57] <diplo> heh, fresh install for me, trying DMZ setup on the router rather than port forward ports everywhere
[15:58] <diplo> Seems to work ok atm, and instead of changing the IP each time on each port I can just change the IP of the VM I'm testing
[15:58] <diddledan> true DMZ or fake-DMZ? :-p
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> run-dmz
[15:59] <diddledan> most commercial routers call NAT to a single LAN IP as DMZ but it's fake - a true DMZ has a separate network segment
[15:59] <bigcalm> Steak T-2.5 hours
[16:00] <diplo> true-dmz
[16:01] <diplo> Well so it says on the web page :)
[16:05] <neuro_> "please enter the first, fourth and thirteenth characters of your password"
[16:06] <neuro_> when it comes to verified by visa, i don't mess around :)
[16:06] <diddledan> thirteenth?!
[16:06] <diddledan> bloody nora
[16:06] <neuro_> you don't use long passwords?
[16:06] <diddledan> I can't remember a password that long
[16:07] <diddledan> I've got lastpass for most of my passwords
[16:07] <diddledan> but verified by visa requires that I remember it myself
[16:07] <diddledan> 'cos they insist on segments
[16:07] <neuro_> my passwords are usually two or three words mashed together with some letters numberised
[16:07] <neuro_> and random capitalisation if i'm feeling particularly sadistic
[16:08] <davmor2> neuro_ 's password is "It's_a_wee_timorous_beastie_with_big_pointy_teeth"
[16:08]  * diplo uses keepassx
[16:08] <diplo> Around 16characters for all mine
[16:09] <neuro_> underscores make touch typists cry
[16:09]  * SuperMatt uses keepassx too
[16:09] <SuperMatt> it's useful
[16:13] <neuro_> woot
[16:13] <neuro_> dns migrated from old clapped out 10.04 vm to funky 12.04 dual xeon
[16:13] <neuro_> on both v4 and v6
[16:13] <neuro_> *bounce*
[16:14] <SuperMatt> my experiments in to v6 have left my brain dripping out of my ears
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ipv6?
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: what do you want to know? :)
[16:14] <SuperMatt> how to stop my brain from hurting ;)
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: It's like IPv4, but with longer addresses.. nothing more
[16:14] <SuperMatt> but seriously, I understand much of it
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> oh and autoconfiguration, which is nice
[16:15] <neuro_> tis
[16:15] <neuro_> i use it at home
[16:15] <neuro_> well, *here*
[16:15] <neuro_> since i am at home
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> my ISP even does DHCPv6-PD over PPPoE to send me a prefix
[16:16] <neuro_> shush
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> so I get a /48 at home
[16:16] <neuro_> so my question is
[16:16] <neuro_> what the heck are you gonna do with a /48? :)
[16:17]  * neuro_ is quite happy with a /64
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: yeah.. I'm still sort of wondering
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: I get 64k /64s 8-)
[16:17] <neuro_> and even that is kinda frivolous when you think about it
[16:17] <neuro_> hehe
[16:17] <neuro_> annoyingly though, my new dns server is sitting on a /128 :(
[16:18] <diddledan> my reason for a /48 would be to allow me to give hotspot users a /64, but no hotspot software currently works with ip6
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: coovachilli does, I think
[16:18] <neuro_> i thought m0n0wall supported v6
[16:19] <diddledan> it needs to be compatible with hotspotsystem.com, so I've not been able to get m0n0wall or pfsense (preferred over m0n0) working with it
[16:19] <diddledan> I think I had issues with the whitelisting
[16:19] <diddledan> I can't remember now tho, tbh
[16:19] <neuro_> i always forget pfsense does portal
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: so basically I have 64k * (v4 space * v4 space).. which does seem like a lot
[16:20] <neuro_> you'd run out of space for machines before you ran out of IPs
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: coovachilli seems compatible, accordsing to the "Installation guide"
[16:20] <neuro_> MartijnVdS: i care not :)
[16:20] <neuro_> wasn't me asking ;)
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> oh wait
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: ^
[16:23] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: link?
[16:23] <diddledan> can't find any mention here: http://www.coova.org/CoovaChilli/Documentation
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://hotspotsystem.com/en/hotspot/install_guide_openwrt.html
[16:24] <diddledan> oh right, yeah, I know coova is compatible with hss, but coova doesn't do ip6
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.coova.org/CoovaChilli/ChangeLog it does (experimentally)
[16:27] <diddledan> the documentation for coova is seriously scant
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> it is :(
[16:27]  * MartijnVdS runs a network for a camping on it
[16:32] <HoT|2fC^> Still no luck :(
[16:33] <HoT|2fC^> I can't beleave windows will boot but not detect my scsi drive, then when I try and boot Ubuntu or any Linux distro it just fails an does not boot at all :(
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: are you using the 32-bit Ubuntu? Because your machine seems a bit old for 64-bit software
[16:35] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS, I use 32Bit with Windows and Ubuntu is 32bit ? I think.
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: depends on the .iso you download
[16:36] <HoT|2fC^> MartijnVdS: First Linux distro I tried to boot was this one "ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386"
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: how did you burn it to CD?
[16:37] <HoT|2fC^> Using Nero?
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: as a file on the CD, or as a disc image?
[16:38] <HoT|2fC^> I burnt both ways
[16:38] <AlanBell> if you put the disk in the computer you used to burn it, does it open a folder containing a file called ubuntu-13.04-desktop-i386.iso?
[16:38] <HoT|2fC^> I have a copy here and it boots from my PC.
[16:38] <AlanBell> because if it did, then you are doing it wrong
[16:39] <AlanBell> ok, so you have a known good CD that boots on another computer
[16:39] <AlanBell> is the bios on the computer that doesn't work set so that it will boot from CD?
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> is the CD drive IDE or SCSI?
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> oh wait, you can boot Windows off the same drive
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^> AlanBell, The CD I have tried to boot just says "ubuntu-13.04-server-amd64"
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^> ISO Burn :/
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^> then www.isoburner.com
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^> when you highlight it
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> but.. -amd64 is not -i386
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> which one is it?
[16:41] <HoT|2fC^> Thats the server one must be wrong that
[16:42] <HoT|2fC^> the Desktop one is i386 an when I put it in my PC now it loads up Ubuntu Menu to install!
[16:42] <HoT|2fC^> but this is a DVD-R so wont work in my CDROM and I think its SCSI.
[16:42] <HoT|2fC^> I cant do usb booting either :(
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: OK, so get the i386 alternate or server CD image
[16:42] <AlanBell> ah, no it wont' work in a CD only drive
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: and burn the image to a *cd*
[16:43] <AlanBell> the desktop image is too big to go on CD
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> then you should be able to boot it
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> the server one isn't
[16:43] <HoT|2fC^> Yeah true I didnt think of that :o
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> and the 12.04 one might fit on CD as well, still
[16:43] <AlanBell> yup, server should be fine, and as MartijnVdS says, it must be CD media
[16:43] <HoT|2fC^> Ok so, I need the server i386 CD image.
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: releases.ubuntu.com
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: you want 12.04 for a server -- longer / better support
[16:43] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: NOT 13.04
[16:44] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[16:44] <HoT|2fC^> I have 12.04 desktop on disc :D
[16:44] <HoT|2fC^> its from ubuntu
[16:44] <HoT|2fC^> but amd64 :/
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: yes.. get the 12.04 SERVER i386 ISO
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> not the desktop one
[16:44] <AlanBell> depends what you want, 13.04 is newer stuff, depends if you care
[16:44] <neuro_> why i386?
[16:44] <neuro_> do we know what the cpu is?
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: because it's a machine from the neolithic
[16:45] <AlanBell> if you are running stuffs that depends on openoffice headless for PDF rendering then you probably want 13.04 rather than 12.04
[16:45] <neuro_> AlanBell: i doubt that's even a concern
[16:45] <HoT|2fC^> Im using my Server for hosting a Dedicated game server.
[16:45] <neuro_> HoT|2fC^: what is the CPU?
[16:45] <neuro_> or CPUs?
[16:46] <AlanBell> possibly not :) but there are perfectly valid reasons to want a newer server than LTS
[16:46] <HoT|2fC^> It's a x2 Dual Intel Xeon 2.4Ghz
[16:46] <neuro_> what kind of xeon
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: which generation xeon?
[16:46] <neuro_> model number pls
[16:46] <HoT|2fC^> Not sure.
[16:47] <neuro_> what make and model is the server?
[16:47] <HoT|2fC^> http://reviews.cnet.com/soho-servers/hp-proliant-dl380-g3/4505-3125_7-30475074.html
[16:47] <neuro_> yikes
[16:47] <HoT|2fC^> :/
[16:49] <neuro_> that server shipped with Windows 2000
[16:49] <neuro_> get the i386 installer
[16:49] <neuro_> "amd64" is 64-bit, which that class of machine will not (and did not) support
[16:49] <HoT|2fC^> http://www.andovercg.com/datasheets/hp-proliant-dl380-server.pdf
[16:49] <HoT|2fC^> More info on it
[16:49] <neuro_> don't need more
[16:49] <neuro_> get the i386 installer
[16:49] <HoT|2fC^> :o
[16:49] <HoT|2fC^> Ok ok :)
[16:49] <neuro_> lol
[16:50] <HoT|2fC^> shame I have ran out of blank discs :(
[16:50] <HoT|2fC^> what a bummer
[16:50] <neuro_> shops will still be open :)
[16:50] <neuro_> and this is a prime example of why you should plan stuff out before you do it
[16:51] <HoT|2fC^> :(
[16:51] <HoT|2fC^> I know.
[16:51] <HoT|2fC^> Hey so I have here Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS 32Bit
[16:51] <HoT|2fC^> Correct neuro_?
[16:51] <neuro_> server?
[16:51] <HoT|2fC^> yes!
[16:51] <neuro_> hurrah
[16:52] <neuro_> have fun
[16:52] <HoT|2fC^> i386
[16:52] <HoT|2fC^> haha have fun, I wouldnt say that its fun tbh :p
[16:52] <HoT|2fC^> I will have fun later when I play a few games!
[16:52] <neuro_> depends on your perspective
[16:52] <neuro_> what game servers are you planning to run on it?
[16:52] <HoT|2fC^> Doom 3 :)
[16:52] <neuro_> cool
[16:53] <HoT|2fC^> and maybe Quake 4
[16:53] <HoT|2fC^> It will not be on 24/ 7 it will only be odd weekends.
[16:53] <HoT|2fC^> also its for me to learn a bit about a Enterprise server :)
[16:54] <neuro_> well
[16:54] <neuro_> a midrange server, certainly
[16:54] <neuro_> albeit a 9 year old one
[16:55] <HoT|2fC^> :)
[16:55] <HoT|2fC^> So is my server junk then
[16:55] <neuro_> nope
[16:55] <neuro_> looks like i've found your cpu as well
[16:55] <neuro_> http://ark.intel.com/products/27269/Intel-Xeon-Processor-2_40-GHz-512K-Cache-400-MHz-FSB
[16:55] <HoT|2fC^> ah nice one nice 1 :)
[16:56] <HoT|2fC^> so is it x2 2.4ghz each core ?
[16:56] <neuro_> single core
[16:56] <HoT|2fC^> ouch
[16:56] <HoT|2fC^> whats the x2 Dual mean ?
[16:56] <neuro_> two packages
[16:56] <HoT|2fC^> oh
[16:57] <neuro_> xeon number 1, xeon number 2
[16:57] <HoT|2fC^> okok so its pushing 4.8ghz
[16:57] <neuro_> nope
[16:57] <HoT|2fC^> yes its named :)
[16:57] <HoT|2fC^> no :O
[16:57] <neuro_> it's 2x 2.4GHz
[16:58] <neuro_> there are two separate single core CPUs
[16:58] <HoT|2fC^> an that makes it ?
[16:58] <neuro_> and that makes it 2x 2.4GHz
[16:58] <neuro_> it's not a multiplier :)
[16:58] <HoT|2fC^> so eg: if I have SMP
[16:58] <HoT|2fC^> oh fuck
[16:58] <neuro_> language
[16:58] <HoT|2fC^> mind my french!
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> HoT|2fC^: "merde"
[16:58] <HoT|2fC^> \o/
[16:59]  * HoT|2fC^ starts to pull his hair out...
[16:59] <neuro_> as far as the OS is concerned, it doesn't matter if it's 1 CPU with dual core, or 2 CPUs with single cores
[16:59] <neuro_> or 1 CPU with 1 hyperthreaded core
[16:59] <HoT|2fC^> true
[16:59] <neuro_> which these are not
[16:59] <HoT|2fC^> so if I get ubuntu server 32bit going id be able to get a kick arse game server running?
[16:59] <HoT|2fC^> thats all I care about :D
[16:59] <neuro_> no idea
[17:00] <neuro_> last time i ran a game server was about 5 years ago
[17:00] <HoT|2fC^> wow lol
[17:00] <neuro_> wolfenstein enemy territory on a dual pIII
[17:00] <neuro_> ran quite nicely actually
[17:01] <neuro_> actually 6 years ago sounds more accurate
[17:01] <neuro_> dates, pfff
[17:01] <HoT|2fC^> nice one, haha yeah while back now mate.
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> one internet century agi
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> ago*
[17:01] <neuro_> not *that* far back, jeez
[17:01] <HoT|2fC^> I loved that game wolfenstein
[17:01] <HoT|2fC^> hehe:)
[17:01] <neuro_> woah
[17:01] <neuro_> hey
[17:01] <neuro_> why do i have an underscore?
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: because reasons
[17:02]  * neuro_ sees a neuro
[17:02] <neuro_> time to engage
[17:02] <HoT|2fC^> oh you know like you said neuro_ that shops are open still, well not where I live in the middle of no where in the sticks with sheep and cows,... my nearest local shop for milk and bread is 4miles away! \o/
[17:02] <neuro_> "has been idle for 5hr 13min 16s"
[17:02] <neuro_> dammit
[17:02] <HoT|2fC^> LoL
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> neuro_: blame christel?
[17:03] <neuro> i'd blame christel for anything on freenode, but since she's not here ...
[17:04] <mgdm> have you got neuro registered?
[17:04] <neuro> yeah
[17:04] <mgdm> surely you can not-ghost-but-the-other-one
[17:04] <neuro> do you not remember? i had waited years to get it
[17:04] <mgdm> I do remember, which is why I was asking
[17:04] <neuro> after ryan murray decided not to log in for a few months
[17:04] <neuro> <-
[17:04] <neuro> it's done
[17:04] <neuro> i ghosted em
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> whoa
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> energy companies have too much money
[17:05] <bigcalm> Gah, LUG members are dropping out like flies. Tonight's going to be a lonely time
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> (electricity/gas)
[17:05] <mgdm> there's another one that bounces them to a Guest5425245 nick
[17:06] <neuro> yeah, i keep meaning to figure that out
[17:06] <neuro> cba tho
[17:06] <neuro> anyway, mister sean mulvenon from nebraska, cheeky sod using my nick, is no more
[17:06] <neuro> at least is no more using my nick
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> silly yanks
[17:07] <DJones> Heh, just reading http://www.omgchrome.com/google-announce-chromecast-chromekey/ and like this line "Any device running Chrome will be able to take advantage of Chromecast, regardless of operating system or device" Does that mean Chrome browser or Chrome OS
[17:08] <MartijnVdS> lots of googly anouncements tonight it seems
[17:09] <neuro> "Chromecast will cost $XX"
[17:09] <neuro> 20 bucks? awesome!
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> $35
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> still awesome
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> (according to the ars livecast)
[17:09] <neuro> new nexus 7 at end of month for $229
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZzS6BxHEns
[17:10] <neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZzS6BxHEns
[17:10] <neuro> jinx
[17:12] <neuro> just in time for it to finish ;)
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[17:13] <neuro> "Comments are disabled for this video." Even Google knows that the people who post YouTube comments aren't quite human
[17:14] <MartijnVdS> great.. now I wait for the firmware push on my phone
[17:59] <ali1234> my god the spelling on that article
[18:29] <AlanBell> ooh I like that chromecast thing
[18:33] <arc__> hi is there any visualisation programs in ubuntu execpt virual box
[18:35] <AlanBell> arc__: do you by any chance mean virtualisation?
[18:35] <arc__> yes sorry for the bad spelling
[18:36] <AlanBell> heh, that is a different word, not a bad spelling!
[18:36] <arc__> sorry
[18:36] <AlanBell> virtualbox is good for desktop virtualisation, kvm is good for server stuff
[18:36] <arc__> what is kvm
[18:36] <arc__> never heard of it before
[18:37] <AlanBell> it is kernel level virtualisation, you can control it with libvirt and the virt-manager gui
[18:37] <arc__> so how do i install it using terminal
[18:37] <AlanBell> good if you want to run and monitor a dozen or so VMs per host, and a few hosts
[18:37] <AlanBell> !kvm
[18:37] <ali1234> virtualbox is perfectly fine for server virtualization too
[18:37] <arc__> apt-get (what)
[18:38] <ali1234> it can even use kvm
[18:38] <AlanBell> arc__: read the link above :)
[18:38] <arc__> yeah i have checked it
[18:39] <arc__> my laptop does not support hardware virtualization
[18:40] <AlanBell> can virtualbox manage remote hosts ali1234?
[18:40] <ali1234> define "manage" and "remote"
[18:40] <ali1234> and "host"
[18:40] <AlanBell> heh
[18:40] <AlanBell> headless server, with a bunch of VMs on it, and I want the management gui on my laptop
[18:40] <ali1234> virtualbox has a command "VBoxHeadless" which you can use over ssh to manage guests
[18:41] <arc__> has anyone ported virtual pc 2007 for ubuntu
[18:41] <AlanBell> arc__: that isn't open source is it?
[18:41] <arc__> i don't know that is why i am asking
[18:42] <AlanBell> it is a microsoft product, it can't be ported by anyone but microsoft
[18:42] <AlanBell> why do you want that specific product?
[18:43] <arc__> it is very good for old windows os's like 3.11 and ms-dos and other stuff without crashing
[18:43] <ali1234> AlanBell: actually, just use xhost if you want to remote the gui. that's what it is for
[18:44] <ali1234> though the gui isn't really that useful once you have configured the vms
[18:44] <AlanBell> ali1234: but then I have a separate GUI for each host
[18:44] <ali1234> true
[18:44] <AlanBell> I get your point, but KVM has one GUI that will ssh to multiple hosts and give me little graphs of all the VMs
[18:44] <AlanBell> http://virt-manager.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/virt-manager-vm-list.png
[18:44] <AlanBell> like that
[18:45] <AlanBell> but not all localhost :)
[18:45] <ali1234> well considering the virtualbox can use kvm... that will probably continue to work
[18:45] <arc__> i am now installing ubuntu server in vbox right now
[18:46] <ali1234> maybe it can't use kvm actually
[18:46] <AlanBell> it can use *disks* that kvm uses
[18:46] <ali1234> well
[18:46] <ali1234> put it this way
[18:47] <ali1234> if the kvm kernel modules are loaded, and you make a linux virtualmachine in virtualbox, it will only continue to work if the kvm kernel modules are loaded
[18:47] <arc__> some how my p4 2.9ghz 1.5gb  ram pc is bad is vm's compared to my crap laptop with 712mb of ram
[18:47] <ali1234> however, if the kvm module is loaded and you create or run a windows vm, it will always work
[18:47] <ali1234> and if you make a linux vm with the kvm module unloaded, it won't work if the kvm module is loaded
[18:47] <ali1234> to me this suggests that virtualbox uses kvm for linux vms
[18:47] <ali1234> if it is available
[18:48] <AlanBell> ok
[18:48] <ali1234> it could just be that one or the other is horribly broken
[18:48] <ali1234> or more likely both
[18:48] <AlanBell> the big deal for me with virtualbox is that GUI accelleration is passed through with the guest extensions
[18:48] <arc__> no it run faster in the host than the laptop
[18:48] <arc__> host os (xp
[18:49] <AlanBell> are you typing on a phone arc__?
[18:49] <ali1234> anything less than 4GB is not even enough to run a single operating system
[18:50] <arc__> no it is i am a bad at using the keybord really fast
[18:50] <arc__> no that is not true
[18:50] <ali1234> 1GB was considered entry level in about 2006
[18:50] <arc__> i can run 4 vm's of win 2000 all at the same time
[18:50] <arc__> and 3 vm's of xp
[18:50] <ali1234> and they are all extremely slow
[18:51] <ali1234> XP was released in what, 2001?
[18:51] <arc__> xp is medium but 2000 runs fast
[18:51] <ali1234> 2000 is the previous generation
[18:52] <shauno> or idle. depending on the platform you can oversubscribe VMs like crazy.  and it'll look convincing when they're just sitting there doing nothing useful
[18:53] <arc__> no they can all play videos  at above good quality
[18:54] <ali1234> especially if you don't have hardware virtualization
[18:54] <arc__> my pc can do a lot with vm's
[18:55] <arc__> don't under estimate it
[18:55] <ali1234> i'm not particularly happy about how memory hungry modern OSs - it's just the way it is
[18:56] <arc__> why does microsoft have to leave it's p4 costumer when it can't run win 8
[18:57] <arc__> even win 7 run's on it
[18:57] <ali1234> they stopped making P4s 5 years ago
[18:57] <arc__> yes but win 7 supported p4
[18:58] <arc__> ubuntu run really well on it
[19:02] <directhex> arc__, many operations are incredibly slow when you don't have virtualization-specific instructions in your CPU. which is something not found in pentium 4.
[19:09] <shauno> they're pretty horrible processors for most uses, but it felt a bit mean saying that to his face
[19:22] <directhex> they're irrelevant, in 2013
[19:24] <AlanBell> that is raspberry pi class computing
[19:24] <AlanBell> but with a touch more memory perhaps
[19:29] <directhex> you overestimate raspberry pi.
[19:30]  * AlanBell installed OpenERP on a raspberry pi
[19:30] <AlanBell> granted it wasn't the fastest ERP platform I have ever used
[19:44] <Azelphur> did the way of using multiple IP addresses change with the dawn of "ip" instead of ifconfig?
[19:44] <Azelphur> or do I still just add stuff to /etc/network/interfaces
[19:47] <diddledan> 5.1meelion!
[19:53] <shauno> heh.  my finger's been hovering over the button all day, but I just can't do it
[19:53] <mungbean> neuro: 5M *cough*
[19:54] <mungbean> i feel bad about spending £15 on toys today
[19:54] <mungbean> :P
[19:55] <shauno> I really wish projects that large wouldn't use the kickstarter model.  £500 is into the realm of purchases I need to plan out, not be given a deadline
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> shauno: you have one month
[19:56] <diddledan> shauno: I done it
[19:56] <diddledan> shauno: be with the "in" crowd :-p
[19:57] <shauno> one month is irrelevant to me, the deadline is before my next payday
[19:57] <mungbean> credit card ftw
[19:58] <mungbean> up to 56 days to pay
[20:01] <shauno> I really hope it works.  just bummed because I really can't swing it this month :/  I blew this month's toy budget in 2 hours
[20:01] <diddledan> ooh, what'd ya buy?
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> "toys"
[20:02] <diddledan> sextoys?
[20:02] <davmor2> diddledan: ahum
[20:02] <diddledan> scuse me :-p
[20:02] <davmor2> diddledan: he bought shiny toys
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: those can be shiny too you know
[20:03] <shauno> shiny toys <3  new phone & a mac mini
[20:03] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I'm not even going to ask how you know that :P
[20:03] <diddledan> mac mini.. is it running ubuntu yet?
[20:03] <mungbean> how much is your fun budget?
[20:03] <shauno> lol, no
[20:03] <davmor2> shauno: see should of held out on the new phone :D
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I used to work in the same office as a credit card clearinghouse for adult sites, and they had a few people regularly checking if those sites complied with their TOS
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: they had to cycle out those people every 2 weeks because of the mind-numbingness of watching pron 40 hours a week
[20:04] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeah, yeah :D
[20:04] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: sounds horrid
[20:05] <mungbean> sounds grim
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> there's weird stuff out there
[20:05] <diddledan> I suppose there's only so much "fun" you can have in one block, and 8hours straight probably comes close
[20:06] <diddledan> I'd imagine it to be exhausting work
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> it's worse than you'd initially think
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> hence the two-weeks-at-a-time temps
[20:06] <diddledan> lol