[08:28] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:34] <sgclark> morning
[08:36] <lordievader> Hey sgclark, how are you?
[08:37] <sgclark> pretty good. tired lol, new schedule taking some getting used to
[08:39] <lordievader> Whoo, Beta one is still up for testing. Should do some testing today :)
[08:40] <Riddell> yes please lordievader :)
[08:40] <valorie> oh my gosh, you are on euro-sched, sgclark?
[08:40] <sgclark> yeah valorie
[08:40] <valorie> woman of iron
[08:41] <valorie> I can't do that
[08:41] <sgclark> bedtime @ 4pm lol
[08:41] <valorie> until I get there
[08:41] <sgclark> kinda works actually , my husband works nights
[08:41] <valorie> I hope that works for ya
[08:41] <sgclark> hardest part is staying asleep 8 hours
[08:42] <valorie> my way works for me....
[08:45] <sgclark> either way we are both up in the middle of the night lol
[08:46] <valorie> yes, but I'm about to head to bed
[08:46] <sgclark> ahh gotcha
[08:49] <lordievader> Riddell: Will do ;)
[09:09] <shadeslayer> Riddell: might want to revert ubiquity for the time being bte
[09:09] <shadeslayer> *btw
[09:10] <Riddell> shadeslayer: oh?
[09:10] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yeah, you can't get past ubiquity-dm now
[09:11] <shadeslayer> At least I could not last night
[09:14] <shadeslayer> Riddell: sorry :(
[09:15] <shadeslayer> ScottK: why is a FFe required for the IO scheduler change, its a bug fix release
[09:15] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yep I agree, just comes back to ubiquity-dm
[09:16] <Riddell> hmm
[09:16] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yeah, so you could spend some time investigating that, or revert and postpone for after
[09:17]  * apachelogger points out that this could be a sign sddm crashing
[09:17] <shadeslayer> Riddell: alternatively we ask people to boot without maybe-ubiquity
[09:18] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: no logs in /var/log/sddm
[09:19] <Riddell> nothing in the logs about ubiquity-dm
[09:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: doesn't that make it even more likely :P
[09:20] <shadeslayer> True :p
[09:20] <apachelogger> hm
[09:21] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: actually, fix the sddm upstart unit
[09:21] <apachelogger> it appears to me that'll also fix the issue t hand
[09:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what's wrong?
[09:21] <apachelogger> as I said in the past: it should be a slightly adjusted copy of lightdm
[09:22] <apachelogger> in fact I am reasonable certain the loop hapens because the exec sddm is inside an if which is molto wrong
[09:24] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: no it's not
[09:25] <shadeslayer> atleast indentation indicates it's not
[09:26] <shadeslayer> oh
[09:26] <shadeslayer> oh
[09:26] <shadeslayer> I see
[09:26] <shadeslayer> lets see
[09:33] <shadeslayer> argh
[09:33] <shadeslayer> stupid sddm
[09:33] <Riddell> what's it doing?
[09:33] <shadeslayer> not starting
[09:33] <shadeslayer> i.e. sudo service sddm start doesn't work
[09:33] <yofel> intel?
[09:33] <shadeslayer> vbox
[09:33] <yofel> hm
[09:35] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the version I see has it in the if
[09:36] <apachelogger> also random noting: a) clearing tty7 while sddm always starts on tty1 is a bit pointless b) since ubiquity-dm runs on tty7 (presumably) switching to tty1 for sddm might very well involve substantial flickering and mode setting
[09:44] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: the clear stuff is for plymouth
[09:45] <shadeslayer> plymouth is on tty7
[09:46] <yofel> why is sddm on tty1 again?
[09:46] <shadeslayer> yofel: no clue, that's the default, and I dont see a way to change it
[09:47] <yofel> maybe talk to upstream? AFAIK there's a bunch of things that expect X/DM to run on tty7
[09:47] <shadeslayer> d_ed: ^^
[09:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging-next/sddm/revision/42
[09:48] <shadeslayer> does that look right now
[09:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: though I can't test because sddm doesn't really start after I stop it and edit the upstart conf -.-
[09:49] <yofel> if 'sudo sddm' doesn't do anything either you have greeter problems
[09:50] <yofel> or driver whatever
[09:51] <shadeslayer> sudo sddm works
[09:52] <shadeslayer> but thats useless
[09:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: better, plymouth quit apparently needs a runlevel check btw
[09:57] <apachelogger> or so lightdm does
[10:01] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: will do, but first
[10:01] <shadeslayer> Riddell: want to rebuild the ISO's?
[10:01] <shadeslayer> after sddm builds
[10:03] <Riddell> shadeslayer: ooh?
[10:03] <Riddell> you fixed it?
[10:03] <shadeslayer> maybe
[10:03] <shadeslayer> I can't really test
[10:04] <shadeslayer> upstart job doesn't want to restart for some reason
[10:04] <Riddell> mm, testing ubiquity-dm is very faffy
[10:04] <shadeslayer> ^^
[10:04] <Riddell> how do you even switch from X to a linux console in virtualbox?
[10:04] <shadeslayer> Riddell: anyway, package should be up in ~10 minutes at which point you can rebuild ISO's
[10:04] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you need to forcefully kill ubiquity
[10:05] <apachelogger> and X
[10:05] <shadeslayer> host key + F1
[10:05] <apachelogger> and sleep somewhere in between
[10:05] <Riddell> looks like it's up now
[10:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: in the init script?
[10:05] <apachelogger> no before you can restart ubiquity-dm
[10:06] <apachelogger> Riddell could grep his logs, I told him the command at some point
[10:07] <apachelogger> why is there no kdev ruby
[10:07] <shadeslayer> there is
[10:07] <apachelogger> what sort of evil ploy is this
[10:07] <shadeslayer> it's not packaged
[10:07] <apachelogger> not packaged there isnt
[10:08] <shadeslayer> yeah
[10:08] <shadeslayer> anyway, I am off to the doctor, Riddell plz test if the sddm fix works, because force killing Xorg and ubiquity-dm doesn't work for me ( after updating the init script )
[10:09] <shadeslayer> cya after lunch
[11:04] <Riddell> shadeslayer: doesn't seem to help :(
[11:11] <shadeslayer> Riddell: revert ubiquity then
[11:11] <BluesKaj> HI all
[11:12] <alvin> I'm sorry for bothering you guys with this, but someone here will probably know it. I'm trying to use the program backportpackage from  ubuntu-dev-tools, but launchpad  rejects my upload because packages 'username@hostname' can't be identified. I tried setting DEBEMAIL and UBUMAIL in ~/.devscripts, but those values are ignored. (whilst DEBSIGN_KEYID is accepted). Any idea where I have to set my email for this?
[11:13] <shadeslayer> alvin: needs exporting
[11:13] <shadeslayer> Put it in your bashrc or equivalent
[11:13] <alvin> shadeslayer: Thanks, but I actually already tried that. Those 2 are in my environment. (I can do echo $DEBEMAIL)
[11:14] <shadeslayer> Hm
[11:14] <shadeslayer> No clue then
[11:14] <alvin> And strange enough, it all works on another Kubuntu machine, where the values are not exported, so I'm guessing the other computer uses ~/.devscripts
[11:14] <shadeslayer> Odd
[11:15] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8168085/ xD
[11:15] <shadeslayer> alvin: try passing them to backportpackage via the command line?
[11:15] <alvin> Indeed. Been searching for hours. I just copied the .devscripts file from the other computer too.
[11:15] <alvin> shadeslayer: Well, that should work. I'll try it. But I would really like to know what's different here.
[11:16] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: is it a spaceship
[11:16] <apachelogger> a jenkins+lxc based spaceship
[11:16] <shadeslayer> Yeah, much cool
[11:18] <shadeslayer> Riddell: Better Together - Luke Wright on Scottish Indepen…: http://youtu.be/g_1ugSSiqsE
[11:32] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ubiquity reverted yet ?
[11:58] <BluesKaj> seriously considering reverting to plasma 4 on my desktop pc ... plasma 5 isn't configurable enough even for testing. I don't like the look at all. It's extremely bland and I don't consider myself any more visually oriented than the norm.
[12:01] <apachelogger> BluesKaj: reckon one should file bugs and/or send mails
[12:02] <BluesKaj> apachelogger, the bugs are obvious ..nothing works in terms of colours or themes except the defaults
[12:03] <apachelogger> obvious != reported
[12:03] <sgclark> hmm I can select colors otherr than default
[12:04] <sgclark> Are you using the new ISO, just curious?
[12:04] <BluesKaj> you can select but do the colours change ?
[12:04] <sgclark> yup
[12:04] <BluesKaj> sgclark, yes
[12:04] <BluesKaj> theyt don't here
[12:05] <apachelogger> reckon one should be filing a bug
[12:05] <sgclark> BluesKaj: ok, perhaps something there, I am not, I tossed it after no power settings
[12:05] <sgclark> what apachelogger said ^
[12:06] <sgclark> something is definitely not right
[12:06] <BluesKaj> some things are not right :)
[12:07] <Riddell> shadeslayer: no I think we can just release note that you need to remove maybe-ubiquity, it's the first beta of a tech preview so that's fine for me
[12:07] <shadeslayer> I dont think that's acceptable , but you are the release manager
[12:08] <shadeslayer> No one reads the release notes
[12:08] <apachelogger> look how professionally I abused cppcheck to get lintian data into jenkins xD http://i.imgur.com/547rtVR.png
[12:08] <shadeslayer> Fact
[12:08] <Riddell> sgclark, apachelogger: straw poll for plasma 5, revert ubiquity or tell people to remove maybe-ubiquity from boot line?
[12:08] <apachelogger> revert
[12:08] <sgclark> IMO telling people to remove things from bootline can end badly
[12:08] <apachelogger> testing really shouldn't be *more* of an effort than it already is :P
[12:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: not upworthy enough
[12:09] <Riddell> ok I'll revert and rebuild
[12:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what is an upworthy?
[12:10] <shadeslayer> http://www.upworthy.com/
[12:11] <apachelogger> internet weird
[12:11] <shadeslayer> Yes
[12:13] <apachelogger> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED
[12:13] <apachelogger> patching file startkde/CMakeLists.txt
[12:13] <apachelogger> god I love patches
[12:23] <shadeslayer> "patches are awesome" apachelogger circa 2014
[12:27] <apachelogger> that's not what I said now is it
[12:42] <apachelogger> uh
[12:43] <apachelogger> the patch has a fuzz
[12:43] <apachelogger> omg
[12:43] <apachelogger> world will end right here right now
[13:27] <Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Beta1/Kubuntu ← proofreaders needed!
[13:34] <jmux> Riddell: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-plasma5/releases/utopic as the KDE5 link is broken
[13:35] <Riddell> jmux: right I'm hoping that's where it'll appear once it's published but nothing is published yet
[13:35] <Riddell> still testing for now
[13:38] <jmux> My 6 students started development with "EasyHacks" on LO this week, so I hope I can find one starting on the KDE5 backend in two weeks...
[13:38] <Riddell> jmux: ooh nice
[13:38]  * jmux + 2 collegues + the students will be on the LLOconf in Bern next week
[13:38] <Riddell> jmux: probably the easier way to start will be with the breeze icon theme
[13:39] <Riddell> jmux: then the widgets for the brave
[13:39] <Riddell> jmux: do you know how themes get set for libreoffice?  We have the oxygen theme installed on the kubuntu-plasma5 image but it doesn't get picked
[13:40] <jmux> Riddell: I know there was a bug regarding icon themes a few weeks ago changing the theme pickup - sek - have to check the ML.
[13:41] <jmux> They dropped a bunch of defaults and changed some stuff to fix it on MS Win
[13:46] <jmux> Riddell: Guess this'll take a little buit longer, as I have to leave for a call. I'll check after the call and report back.
[14:13] <shadeslayer> Riddell: did the ISO rebuilds go through?
[14:14] <shadeslayer> Last one I see has 2.19.3
[14:14] <shadeslayer> Ubiquity  that is
[14:15] <Riddell> shadeslayer: 2.19.4 just landed and I started a rebuild
[14:15] <Riddell> should appear shortly
[14:15] <shadeslayer> Okie
[14:15] <Riddell> not a fast process this
[14:15] <shadeslayer> Keep a eye on those basis
[14:15] <Riddell> shadeslayer: do you think the permissions issues we saw will have gone?
[14:16] <shadeslayer> *beasties
[14:16] <shadeslayer> Riddell: should go away
[14:16] <Riddell> shadeslayer: was that something up in sddm ?
[14:16] <shadeslayer> I think so
[14:16] <shadeslayer> We will find out soon enough :p
[14:17] <Riddell> :)
[14:17] <shadeslayer> Riddell: good news,  I don't have a cold
[14:17] <Riddell> umm..
[14:17] <shadeslayer> Though I still have to take drugs to keep my throat from exploding
[14:17] <Riddell> but if you're ill that means you have something else?
[14:17] <shadeslayer> Yeah,  throat inflammation
[14:18] <Riddell> but not caused by a cold virus?
[14:18] <shadeslayer> Yep
[14:18] <Riddell> that sounds like a symptom rather than a diagnosis
[14:18] <Riddell> I know.. I've seen House enough times
[14:19] <shadeslayer> :P
[14:19] <shadeslayer> Well they gave me drugs and sent me home,  good enough for ne
[14:19] <shadeslayer> *me
[14:20] <shadeslayer> Riddell: could be a general inflammation from something in the air
[14:20] <Riddell> ..like a cold virus :)
[14:21] <Riddell> maybe it's lupus?
[14:21] <Riddell> (there's always a suggestion of lupus in House)
[14:21] <shadeslayer> *shrug* could be that I had a cold....
[14:21] <shadeslayer> Lol
[14:21] <shadeslayer> Yeah lupus :p
[14:21] <shadeslayer> I know :p
[14:21] <Quintasan> Hi
[14:21] <Riddell> Michael!
[14:22] <Quintasan> It is I!
[14:22] <Riddell> what's going on here? http://paste.kde.org/povko21ly  why can't I run cmake to compile this qt5 app?
[14:23] <Riddell> Quintasan: just in time to test the plasma 5 images?
[14:23] <Quintasan> plasma 5 you say?
[14:23] <Quintasan> I'm downloading the regular image as we speak
[14:23] <Quintasan> Might as well as test the new one.
[14:25] <Riddell> Quintasan: great, new one should appear shortly so zsync that when it appears, current one is dead
[14:26] <Riddell> or you mean the plasma4 image? that needs testing too :)
[14:27] <Quintasan> I'll test both
[14:28] <Riddell> yay
[14:28] <Riddell> oh and upgrade on i386 still needs tested :)
[14:42] <BluesKaj> ok plasma4 back on the desktop. I'll stick to testing this since it's more to my taste.
[14:46] <apachelogger> did you file bugs?
[14:50] <Riddell> oh I've started logging plasma5 bugs under kubuntu-ppa and tagged plasma5
[14:51] <apachelogger> xD
[14:51] <apachelogger> I just did a solid build from jenkins
[14:51] <apachelogger> muhahaha
[14:52] <kdeuser56> is it decided yet if neon has a future?
[14:52] <Riddell> why is that worthy of a muhahaha?
[14:53] <apachelogger> why wouldn't it be?
[14:54] <Riddell> well doesn't jenkins build solid all the time?
[14:54] <Riddell> along with everything else?
[14:54] <Riddell> or is this a special package of solid from CP?
[14:55] <apachelogger> CP
[14:57] <apachelogger> " Wrapper around checkUpload for the web service API. " such documentation
[15:00] <jmux> Riddell: Current Icon theme is read from KDE4 global config: http://paste.debian.net/118013/
[15:01] <Riddell> ah so the oxygen theme looks for what to set the icon theme?
[15:01] <Riddell> maybe oxygen theme not working because oxygen qt4 theme isn't installed stops it finding the icon theme
[15:06] <jmux> Riddell: This is the LO internal settings. AFAIK you need to place a ZIP file with the icons. This doesn't use any system icons.
[15:07] <jmux> In my development installation I have instdir/share/config/images_oxygen.zip.
[15:08] <jmux> My Debian Wheezy has the zips in /usr/share/libreoffice/share/config/
[15:10] <jmux> AFAIK current master LO (4.4) dropped the "image_" prefix of the zips. Just saw that the LO oxygen style is in pkg libreoffice-style-oxygen in trusty
[15:11] <Quintasan> Christ the USB creator is so horrible
[15:11] <jmux> Riddell: Path to lo oxygen zip in trusty is /usr/lib/libreoffice/share/config/images_oxygen.zip
[15:11] <yofel> fix it? ^^
[15:11] <yofel> Jonathan wanted to remove it from the seed
[15:12] <Quintasan> Horrible I say
[15:12] <Quintasan> It's pythj
[15:12] <Quintasan> python
[15:12] <yofel> well, that's bad, not horrible...
[15:13] <Quintasan> I can take a look at that but don't expect anything
[15:13] <yofel> rather ask for more pressing things to waste your time on
[15:16] <Riddell> Quintasan: I did remove it from the plasma5 seed but since it's horribly broken (both gtk and qt frontends) I guess it should be removed entirely
[15:16] <Riddell> or fixed
[15:16] <Quintasan> I'd say the latter
[15:16] <Quintasan> If the gtk is broken as well then let's just say lol nope
[15:16] <Quintasan> I use mkusb anyways
[15:16] <Riddell> I do think it's important to fix so that would be much appreciated if you could look at it
[15:16] <Riddell> what's mkusb?
[15:17] <Quintasan> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1958073
[15:17] <Riddell> hmm, a shell script
[15:17] <Riddell> hardly something I'd be keen to advocate to our users
[15:19] <Riddell> but it makes me really sad to be shipping broken software or telling people to use dd :(
[15:21] <Riddell> especially where that software is needed to install the OS at all
[15:23] <Quintasan> Riddell: Funny thing is that dd has the higest success rate if you manage to choose the device wisely
[15:23] <Quintasan> It just works
[15:24] <yofel> highest success and highest danger rate ^^
[15:26] <Riddell> I noticed myself typing of=/dev/sdb yesterday, good thing I did as that's the new SSD disk I installed
[15:28] <Quintasan> hmm
[15:28] <Quintasan> the installer fails here
[15:28] <Quintasan> (plasma 5)
[15:28] <Riddell> Quintasan: what language?
[15:28] <Quintasan> Polish
[15:29] <Riddell> yeah known bug, non-english is broken :(
[15:29] <Quintasan> I'll just install utopic plasma 4 and work on top of that
[15:29] <Riddell> it's just as broken there
[15:29] <Riddell> that obviously needs fixed
[15:29] <Riddell> bug 1182784
[15:32] <Quintasan> Christ.
[15:35] <Quintasan> There are virtually no logs for this
[15:35] <Quintasan> Bloody hell all those people +1'ing it
[15:37] <Riddell> shadeslayer: yay premissions issue fixed in plasma5
[15:37] <Riddell> Quintasan: seems there are people out there who don't speak english
[15:37] <Quintasan> Riddell: Yes, but +1'ing it in comments without any backtrace is not very useful
[15:38] <Riddell> shrug, it makes people happy, look how popular the Like button is on facebook
[15:38] <yofel> there's an affects me button at the top...
[15:38] <yofel> maybe we should make that neon yellow
[16:24] <Riddell> hmm powerdevil not great https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337674
[16:40] <kdeuser56> Riddell: yeah :-(
[16:40] <kdeuser56> Riddell: makes utopic-plasma5 no pleasure
[17:02] <Riddell> so bugs for plasma5 images.. in kubuntu-ppa product and tagged plasma5 ?
[17:29] <Riddell> uh, plasma5 i386 has the permissions problem :(
[17:29] <Riddell> what the heck?
[17:29] <Riddell> shadeslayer: any idea why i386 would but not amd64?
[17:35] <Riddell> wait.. it does work in virtualbox
[17:35] <Riddell> maybe I got my dd command wrong!
[17:35]  * Riddell checks he still has a functioning hard disk
[17:35]  * apachelogger has failing jenkins jobs when the launchpad build fails \o/
[17:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: sweet!
[17:43] <Riddell> anyone used unetbootin? should we use it instead of usb-creator-kde?
[17:43] <Riddell> Quintasan: ↑
[17:45] <apachelogger> someone could like fix usb-creator maybe
[17:49] <Riddell> sudo dd if=kubuntu5-201408281428-x86_64.iso of=/dev/sde
[17:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: u using uefi maybe?
[17:50] <apachelogger> actulaly
[17:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: did you try in vbox simply?
[17:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes it's using uefi
[17:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: that iso wouldn't support uefi
[17:52] <Riddell> my virtualbox is busy with plasma5 tests but should be free in a bit
[17:52] <apachelogger> kthx
[17:52] <Riddell> meh but I still can't get kubuntu-plasma5 i386 to work on real hardware, this is weird
[17:54] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I think I can hear your heartbeat
[17:59] <Riddell> I take it back about unetbootin, I can't work out how to copy the ISO to my usb drive
[18:02] <Riddell> sgclark: I don't suppose you can test kubuntu-plasma5 i386 ISO?
[18:02] <Riddell> or anyone else?
[18:07] <sgclark> I am fixing packaging for powerdevil atm and half asleep, only got 4 hours sleep :(
[18:08] <Riddell> sgclark: fair enough then
[18:08] <Riddell> sgclark: you think there's a packaging issue?
[18:08] <Riddell> apachelogger: your iso boots into plasma 5 all good
[18:08] <sgclark> yup, we had d-bus file in -dev package
[18:09] <Riddell> hmm, dbus files are tricksy, there's a few different types
[18:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: want me to check anything?
[18:09] <sgclark> I went through that thread
[18:09] <sgclark> and this one needs to be around at runtime
[18:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: that's it thanks
[18:14] <Riddell> kubuntu-plasma5 iso definately busted on i386
[18:15] <sgclark> Riddell: and I don't know that this will end all issues, it sounds like there is more to that story
[18:15] <Riddell> yeah I don't think it will but let's see what happens
[18:16] <Riddell> kubuntu-plasma5 iso definately works on amd64
[18:16] <Riddell> that is weird
[18:16] <Riddell> mega weird
[18:17] <d_ed> on different machines or the same iso in two places?
[18:17] <d_ed> let me try again..
[18:17] <d_ed> on different machines or the same machine with two ISOs
[18:20] <Riddell> d_ed: virtualbox and real hardware
[18:20] <Riddell> weird permissions issue exists on i386 but not on amd64
[18:21] <Riddell> and that's after I reverted the ubiquity-dm not being able to transition to sddm issue (so it doesn't load ubiquity-dm now)
[18:40] <Riddell> sgclark: I reported bug 1362756 and bug 1362751
[18:44] <sgclark> Riddell: ok. I don't seem to have second issue. As for the first yeah all the logs say powermanagement loaded successfully...
[18:44] <ahoneybun> hey Riddell sgclark
[18:44] <sgclark> hey ahoneybun
[18:44] <Riddell> hi ahoneybun, you're just in time for the first beta release featuring plasma5 images
[18:45] <ahoneybun> Riddell: am I ?
[18:45] <Riddell> and to fix the 12 bugs I just reported :) http://goo.gl/B527rj
[18:46] <sgclark> Riddell: I will download the new images and test first thing in the morning err night err whatever I am lol. I should hopefully get more than 4 hours sleep
[18:46] <ahoneybun> Riddell: I think you know I know nothing of bug fixing
[18:48] <Riddell> sgclark: we'll be releasing in an hour or so, so it's not urgent after that but more testing always good
[18:49] <sgclark> Riddell: ahh ok my apologies then, new schedule was going fine till last night.
[18:51] <sgclark> maybe I will try my hand at a bug or two :)
[18:54] <Riddell> ahoneybun: but you can.. proofread! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Beta1/Kubuntu
[18:55] <ahoneybun> Riddell: is there anything else to do for the Docs>
[18:56] <ahoneybun> Riddell: there are doubles of (1362598) No Install icon on desktop  and (1362599) ubiquity-dm does not run on kubuntu plasma5 images
[18:57] <ahoneybun> plus the kde plasma 5 link is dead
[18:57] <Riddell> sgclark: bug 1362752 will test your shell scripting :)
[18:57] <Riddell> ahoneybun: plasma5 link should come alive once it's published
[18:57] <ahoneybun> ok
[18:58] <Riddell> ahoneybun: duplicate links killed thanks
[18:58] <ahoneybun> Riddell: sweet
[18:58] <Riddell> ahoneybun: I don't think docs have been touched this cycle
[18:58] <ahoneybun> they have not
[18:58] <ahoneybun> I wish that docs.kubuntu.org could look better
[18:59] <sgclark> I thought we moved to wiki?
[18:59] <Riddell> the kubuntu-docs document is still docbook generating html for khelpcenter and docs.kubuntu.org
[18:59] <sgclark> Riddell: challenge accepted
[19:01] <sgclark> tomorrow that is, off to relax a few and get some sleep.
[19:06] <Riddell> sleep well
[19:44] <MichaelP> I downloaded a ISO the otherday. that was to supose to be plasma5 but it turned out to be kde 4.14.... is kubuntu using the ppa repo or it's own for that ?
[19:48] <Riddell> MichaelP: the use our own PPA for plasma 5
[19:49] <Riddell> MichaelP: you just downloaded the wrong ISO, the right one will have plasma 5 on it
[19:50] <MichaelP> Riddell: i clicked on the plasma 5 32 bit....
[19:50] <Riddell> but the md5 you posted was for the plasma 4 image :)
[19:51] <MichaelP> maybe the iso on the 32 bit was mixed up in the directory on the server
[19:52] <kdeuser56> Riddell: how can I checkout the source for the kubuntu ubiquity installer? simply check out ubiquity?
[19:53] <MichaelP> So it still using the ppa:kubuntu-ppa/next repo
[19:53] <kdeuser56> Riddell: nevermind
[19:54] <Riddell> MichaelP: yep
[19:58] <MichaelP> Riddell: i notice on kde site it says apt update ...apt install kubuntu-plasma5-desktop ... apt full upgrade..... another site says... apt update ... apt dist-upgrade ... apt install kubuntu-plasma5-desktop  .... whats the right way
[19:58] <MichaelP> the dist-upgrade or full-upgrade
[20:00] <yofel> only aptitude has full-upgrade, apt would be dist-upgrade (they both pretty much do the same thing)
[20:01] <yofel> er
[20:01] <yofel> apt does have full-upgrade actually (when did they add that...)
[20:01] <yofel> so it doesn't really matter what you use, both ways get you to the same destination
[20:03] <MichaelP> just woundered... cause i done apt apt full-upgrade before.. and ended up having to still upgrade plasma-desktop in order to have plasma in login screen
[20:06] <Riddell> apt full-upgrade  or  apt-get dist-upgrade
[20:06] <Riddell> I like the new "apt" over "apt-get" now
[20:06] <Riddell> except it doesn't do everything
[20:07] <Riddell> MichaelP: what sites are you looking at?
[20:07] <MichaelP> http://www.sysads.co.uk/2014/08/kubuntu-plasma-5-14-10-utopic-unicorn-daily-build-released/     ....    https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Packages#Kubuntu
[20:20] <Riddell> oh he left
[20:21] <MichaelP> finaly power management working in plasma5
[20:24] <Riddell> oh?
[20:24] <Riddell> maybe sgclark did some magic for it
[20:27] <kdeuser56> where is dolphin now in frameworks? (not the kde version)
[20:27] <kdeuser56> is there a git repository?
[20:28] <kdeuser56> (not the kde4 version I meant:-)
[20:28] <shadeslayer> kde-baseapps I think
[20:28] <shadeslayer> use the frameworks branch
[20:30] <Riddell> #
[20:31] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: whats the name of the frameworks branch exactly?
[20:31] <shadeslayer> frameworks
[20:32] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: I don't get it ... git clone git://anongit.kde.org/frameworks.git does nothing
[20:32] <shadeslayer> what
[20:32] <shadeslayer> I said branch?
[20:32] <shadeslayer> git clone kde:kde-baseapps --branch frameworks
[20:33] <kdeuser56> shadeslayer: oh damn, sorry thanks
[20:33] <shadeslayer> cheers
[20:53]  * Riddell spots http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-plasma5/releases/utopic/beta-1/
[20:58] <shadeslayer> :3
[20:58] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yofel Quintasan be proud : "Yep all I see it called is KDE 5 or KDE plasma 5 or even KDE Neon."
[20:58] <shadeslayer> from http://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/2egdof/kde_releases_in_the_future_albert_astals_cid/
[20:58] <shadeslayer> we have a brand around Neon :3
[20:58] <yofel> :D
[20:58] <yofel> we're amazing \o/
[20:58] <shadeslayer> ^^
[21:07]  * Riddell spots http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/utopic/beta-1/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-plasma5/releases/utopic/beta-1/ with content
[21:11]  * Riddell publishes http://www.kubuntu.org/news/14.10-beta-1
[21:15] <shadeslayer> Riddell: shouldn't we be waiting for the ubuntu-announce to go through
[21:15] <Riddell> shadeslayer: stgraber gave us the all clear so I pushed
[21:15] <Riddell> and I need to cook tea for nim
[21:15] <shadeslayer> cool
[21:18] <MichaelP> 14.10 beta1... whats the version.. the one person asked me to help test the otherday ?
[21:18] <Riddell> proably a beta 1 candidate
[21:18] <MichaelP> i know it's utopic
[21:19]  * Riddell snoozes
[21:24] <ahoneybun> oh
[21:27] <MichaelP> Do we have to get skype from skype site... onlything i see in repo is empathy-skype and pidgin-skype
[21:33] <yofel> !partner
[21:33] <yofel> ^ has skype
[21:33] <MichaelP> ok thanks
[21:37] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: ping
[21:40] <MichaelP> guess all i had to do was put check mark for partner repository from muon
[23:56] <valorie> errors on upgrading the utopic laptop: http://paste.kde.org/poz1qs9LL


[03:42]  * slangasek starts posting ISOs for everyone's smoketesting enjoyment
[07:23] <ara> good morning all!
[07:23]  * ara syncs
[10:59] <davmor2> morning all
[11:01] <ara> morning davmor2!
[11:07] <primes2h> morning ara, we are ready to test Beta2 ;-)
[11:08] <ara> primes2h, morning! great! :-)
[11:13] <primes2h> ara: BTW, we prepared a wiki page about zsync, in our opinion this could replace the rsync one, .zsync files are into ISO images archives.
[11:13] <primes2h> http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/FabioMarconi/prove2
[11:14] <dholbach> hola
[11:15] <primes2h> ara: hold on, I'm reading you email...
[11:21] <primes2h> ara: you mention dl-ubuntu-test-iso script.
[11:21] <ara> hey dholbach :)
[11:21] <ara> primes2h, yes, dl-ubuntu-test-iso is a script that uses zsync (or rsync if zsync is not installed)
[11:22] <ara> primes2h, your wiki page is OK. You can mention the script there in a subsection
[11:23] <primes2h> ara: I just need to update the script in it because I saw it has been updated in the rsync wiki page.
[11:23] <primes2h> ara: and I'll mention that other script as well
[11:26] <primes2h> ara: thank you very much. :-)
[11:26] <ara> primes2h, thanks to you!
[11:27] <persia> There's also the ubucdimage script from the ubumirror package.  We probably ought pool all the scripts and have one known good one that is flexible enough to meet needs.
[11:30] <ara> persia, I don't know about that script, but the dl-ubuntu-test-iso is well maintained by sbeattie, rewritten recently in python and widely used by the qa team
[11:30] <persia> I figured as much, which is why I mention the other, which is the current recommendation to mirrors.  I suspect that there exists an opportunity for integration.
[11:31] <ara> persia, agree
[11:32] <primes2h> ara: When wiki page will be finished, could I replace the old one?
[11:33] <primes2h> or it's better to wait?
[11:33] <ara> primes2h, where is the original one?
[11:34] <primes2h> ara: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RsyncCdImage
[11:34] <primes2h> linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
[11:35] <ara> primes2h, I agree, but do not delete the old page, as there might be other people pointing at it
[11:36] <ara> primes2h, you can update the old one with a note "zsync is a better system now, bla, bla, bla" and pointing to the new one, but keeping the old contents as well
[11:36] <primes2h> ara: I can create a new one, linked from the ISO page.
[11:37] <ara> primes2h, yes, I think it is safer, but you can add the note to the old one as well
[11:37] <primes2h> ara: and link it from the old one as well
[11:37] <primes2h> yes
[11:37] <primes2h> :-)
[11:37] <ara> :)
[11:37]  * ara hugs primes2h
[11:40] <persia> The wiki also supports #redirect if you want to just auto-forward a page that has external references
[11:45] <primes2h> ara: :-)
[11:46] <primes2h> persia: I think it would be nice.
[11:46] <primes2h> persia: new zsync page has all info about rsync as the old one
[11:46] <persia> I know.  But that's still more complicated than having ubucdimage in a crontab for now :)
[11:47] <primes2h> so we just need a redirect from rsync to zsync.
[11:47] <persia> Oh, right.  Yeah, look into #redirect in the moin help
[11:47] <primes2h> ara: what do you think?
[11:48] <ara> primes2h, it looks good to me
[11:49] <primes2h> persia: I'll have a look at ubucdimage.
[11:49] <primes2h> :-)
[11:50]  * primes2h -> lunch
[13:15] <fader_> schwuk, davmor2: Hey dudes, how was the long weekend?
[13:16] <schwuk> fader_: nice and long :) How was your short weekend? :)
[13:17] <fader_> schwuk: Way too short :/
[13:38] <davmor2> fader_: Sound thanks how's you?
[13:46] <fader_> davmor2: Hanging in there :)
[13:47] <davmor2> I'm sure we can put an end to that for you ;)
[13:50] <cr3> davmor2: what's that word you use to describe a "slacker"... other than "fader", of course, it sounded more British :)
[13:53] <davmor2> cr3: fader_  is more of a general testing localisation for being a sciving git,
[13:53] <cr3> davmor2: aha, I think "sciving" is the word I was looking for!
[13:54] <fader_> I prefer to be called a "derelict" or "goldbricker", thanks
[13:54]  * persia doesn't see how those terms are synonyms
[13:55] <cr3> persia: both of them are irresponsible, I guess
[13:55] <persia> Why is a derelict irresponsible?
[13:56] <persia> I'd say more the result of irresponsibility, but with no implication of the current state of affairs.
[13:57] <davmor2> persia: sounds like fader_ to me :D
[13:58] <persia> But it's *different* than goldbricking, which is the practice of setting things aside to look lovely, at the expense of everything else.
[13:58] <persia> Both may apply, but I think the conjunction should be "and" rather than "or" in that case :)
[13:58] <fader_> persia: They can both apply to me without meaning the same thing ;)
[13:58] <persia> fader_: Indeed.  In that case, I'm nitpicking your grammar :p
[14:00] <gotunandan> hello, if I would like to test the alternate-i386 iso, what would be the steps to follow ?
[14:01] <davmor2> persia: yeah the or in fader_ 's statement should of been an and :)
[14:01] <persia> gotunandan: Make sure your iso.qa.ubuntu.com account is current, make sure you have the latest image, boot it on real or virtual hardware, follow one of the test cases, report the results.
[14:01] <fader_> It's not an XOR :P
[14:01] <cr3> persia: isn't there a wiki page somewhere about that?
[14:02]  * cr3 is really bad at finding/remembering wiki pages
[14:02] <fader_> gotunandan: The test cases are on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all
[14:02] <cr3> fader_: I need to start using that in conversations
[14:02] <persia> cr3: You mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO ?
[14:03] <cr3> persia: that page points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures which I think gotunandan might like
[14:03] <cr3> gotunandan: ^^^
[14:03] <gotunandan> thanks, downloading the latest image right now
[14:03] <persia> I guess.  I like dialogue.  I think it brings us closer together as a community.
[14:03] <persia> (or maybe I just don't remember all the URLs anymore)
[14:05] <cr3> persia: in the above wiki page, there are nice pictures which also help. I suspect ara had something to do with it :)
[14:05]  * persia shares that suspicion
[14:09] <schwuk> cr3: don't forget http://qa.ubuntu.com :)
[14:31]  * charlie-tca waves
[14:31] <davmor2> hello charlie-tca
[15:40] <gotunandan> done with the download... am installing it in virtual machine for now and following the steps mentioned here: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateManual
[15:48] <ara>      gotunandan, nice :)
[15:50] <gotunandan> where do I get the links for the images... say I would like to test the netbook image ?
[15:50] <gotunandan> i know they are present on cdimage.ubuntu.com but its slightly confusing what lies where
[15:52] <persia> gotunandan: cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/daily-live/current/ is the current Ubuntu Netbook image. Simiarly, cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-netbook/daily-live/current/ is the current Kubuntu Netbook image (assuming i386).
[15:52] <persia> Basically, except for Ubuntu Desktop, all the flavours have their own trees.
[15:53] <gotunandan> ok got it :) thanks !
[16:16] <hggdh> do we have the beta2 isos now?
[16:16] <persia> Well, candidates for most of them.
[16:16]  * persia suspects that respins are a given at this stage
[16:17] <davmor2> hggdh: look at iso.qa.ubuntu.com for the current list ;)
[16:19] <marjo> hggdh: please consider subscribing to one or more test cases, then you'll get an email notification
[16:24] <hggdh> marjo: then, since I did not receive any emails, I understand the server ISO is not ready
[16:25] <charlie-tca> I am subscribed to all of xubuntu tests, but never get an email
[16:27]  * fader_ got a mythbuntu email late last night...
[16:27]  * marjo got ubuntu studio email overnight
[16:27] <davmor2> charlie-tca: are you sure you're subscribed I got some
[16:28] <charlie-tca> yes, I am pretty sure. If I click on subscriptions, all of them are there
[16:30] <davmor2> charlie-tca: have you gone into My Profile and selected email me?
[16:30] <charlie-tca> nope
[16:30] <charlie-tca> huh
[16:30] <davmor2> charlie-tca: that'll be why then
[16:30] <charlie-tca> got it. Thanks
[16:31] <davmor2> hggdh: same to you ^
[16:32] <hggdh> done
[16:32] <hggdh> but this is non-intuitive
[16:33] <persia> The UI has branches ... :)
[16:33] <charlie-tca> I agree
[16:33] <charlie-tca> I never knew that was there even. I just watch the tracker for the iso dates
[16:34] <davmor2> hggdh: it can't be enabled by default as I understood it for various reasons we might be able to get around by added to unsubcribe goto http://...... and uncheck the receive mail notification box
[16:35] <davmor2> ara: I've done what I can for now but I need to do some other stuff now I'll hit some more after.
[16:35] <hggdh> at least we sound state on the subscriptions page that one must set this
[16:35] <ara> davmor2, sure, no worries
[17:05]  * ara calls it a day, but leaves IRC opened to read backlog
[20:27] <sbeattie> erk, fglrx fails on upgrade?
[20:31] <marjo_> fader, bladernr: i shutdown the system and restarted; now the system boots fine
[20:32] <marjo_> i expected it to boot properly right after the installation, without having to shut it down first
[20:32] <fader_> marjo_: Roger; I'll do an install and see what happens
[20:32] <fader_> I'm using ubuntustudio 64-bit at the moment... what were you using?
[20:32] <marjo_>  ok, the test case is: let it reboot WITHOUT shutting down first
[20:33] <marjo_> ubuntustudio i386
[20:33] <marjo_> no problem w/ non-encrypted LVM installs
[20:34] <fader_> marjo_: Argh, I missed the 'encrypted' part.
[20:34]  * fader_ starts the install over.
[20:34] <marjo_> fader: Alternate Encrypted LVM Drive (d-i/debian-installer package)
[20:41] <bladernr> marjo, fader, Alternate Encrypted 64 was just fine
[20:42] <bladernr> no problem on reboot, though I am doing it on a VM so there may be a difference between a warm boot on a VM and a warm boot on bare metal
[20:44] <marjo_> bladernr: so you did NOT have to shutdown the "system" first, right?
[20:44] <bladernr> correct... I let the installer soft-reboot the VM and had no problems when it came back up
[20:45] <bladernr> marjo_: I'll try one on the netbook after I get back from the vet though, just in case there's a difference between VM and bare metal soft reboots
[20:46] <marjo_> bladernr: yes, that would be good
[20:47] <marjo_> what happened to mine was: i just got a bunch of vertical blue lines while it was trying to boot
[20:47] <marjo_> and got stuck there
[20:47] <marjo_> but after i shut it down, it booted fine
[20:48] <fader_> marjo_: Were you doing yours on a VM or bare metal?
[20:49] <marjo_> fader: acer aspire one
[20:50] <marjo_> with external USB CD drive (FWIW)
[21:00] <fader_> marjo_: Works perfectly for me on ubuntustudio 64-bit in virtualbox
[21:01]  * sbeattie can try to reproduce on live hardware...
[21:01] <marjo_> sbeattie: go for it!
[21:02] <marjo_> sbeattie: the test case is: let it reboot WITHOUT shutting down first
[21:02] <sbeattie> okay.
[21:20] <sbeattie> erk, okay, I can
[21:20] <sbeattie> erk, okay, I can't wipe the whole disk on that machine.
[21:20] <sbeattie> trying to manually set up lvm volumes is failing.
[21:22]  * sbeattie wonders why edubuntu's networking applet icon looks like it's unplugged even though it's working and says it's enabled.
[22:03]  * sbeattie steps away to grab some lunch
[22:05] <slangasek> a series of liveCD respins just finishing up, for some ubiquity bugs
[22:05] <slangasek> kubuntu/ubuntu DVD respins still outstanding, should be all done in a couple of hours
[22:31]  * fader_ starts zsyncing DVD images
[22:35] <bladernr> fader_:  it took me 3 hours to zsync everything this morning... heh...
[22:35] <fader_> bladernr: Heh, if it looks like it's taking me that long I'll just get back to testing tomorrow :P
[22:36] <bladernr> by the way, when I was looking at marjo's test a while ago, I was somewhat amused that I can do an encrypted LVM and then encrypt /home inside of that.
[22:38] <fader_> bladernr: Yeah, why not? :)  You could also have an encrypted ZIP containing an encrypted text file inside that... it's turtles all the way down!
[22:39] <bladernr> wow... I haven't heard that in a long time: turtles all the way down
[22:47] <chains_> I noticed the QA blog had the comment spam cleaned up, but new spam comments have already started: http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/80#comments
[22:48] <hggdh> this is really weird... it seems the ATI driver and KVM are not living well together
[23:05] <bladernr> Hrmmm... philosophical question: should it be considered a bug if the installer fails to initialize the network device, if the device requires restricted drivers to function (e.g. Broadcom B43 wireless cards)
[23:09] <bladernr> or more importantly, is there a way to get the d-i installer to load the restricted stuff like you can in the live env?
[23:12] <hggdh_> I do not know about the second Q, but the first one gives the user a real bad experience
[23:12] <hggdh> I *think* this has been discussed before
[23:15] <bladernr> yeah... from an open source standpoint, I can understand why they aren't included by default, but from a "just works" point of view... :(
[23:16] <bladernr> then again, if someone's running the alternate disk, they probably know enough already to not be too surprised
[23:46] <hggdh> maybe
[23:46] <hggdh> still...


[00:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> *yawn*
[05:33] <Kilos> morning inetpro Squirm- nuvolari_ and others
[05:47] <Squirm-> morning
[06:29] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning all
[06:29] <nuvolari_> o/ oh hi
[06:44] <Squirm> hey
[06:45] <Squirm> Maaz: coffee on
[06:45]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[06:45] <Squirm> Maaz: largest
[06:45] <Maaz> Sorry Squirm, We have had a limit placed on coffee use.
[06:45] <Squirm> :/
[06:45] <Squirm> Maaz: large
[06:45] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you Squirm
[06:45] <Squirm> Maaz: larger
[06:45] <Maaz> inna bucket for you Squirm
[06:45] <Squirm> Maaz: largest
[06:45] <Maaz> Sorry Squirm, We have had a limit placed on coffee use.
[06:45]  * Squirm eyes Maaz
[06:45] <Squirm> Maaz: you don't want to stand between me and my coffee
[06:45] <Maaz> Squirm: Excuse me?
[06:45] <Squirm> :/
[06:46] <Squirm> Is it Friday? I think I need to go to bed. talking to a bit :/
[06:46] <Squirm> bot
[06:49] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Squirm!
[06:56] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/microsoft-minecraft1.jpg?w=738
[06:56] <ThatGraemeGuy> lol
[06:59] <Squirm> yeah, I saw that :P
[07:13] <inetpro> good mornings everyone
[07:41] <ThatGraemeGuy> so according to ps, i have a server with a kernel worker thread that has been running since 584 years ago
[07:41] <ThatGraemeGuy> 125962 root     Sep14 213503-23:34:43 [kworker/3:2]
[07:52] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[07:53] <ThatGraemeGuy> 'lo
[07:59] <Kilos> hmm...
[07:59] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[07:59] <Kilos> morning nlsthzn
[08:04] <Squirm> lol ThatGraemeGuy
[08:04] <Squirm> and the uptime on that server?
[08:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> 83 days
[08:07] <ThatGraemeGuy> I've accidentally invented timetravel :)
[08:18] <nlsthzn> alo
[08:18]  * nlsthzn goes to sleep zzzzzz
[08:20] <Kilos> hehe
[09:17] <bduk> Morning everyone
[09:17] <magespawn> good day all
[09:59] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[10:00] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[10:04] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[10:04] <magespawn> to answer the questions about cat6 cable, it is faster than cat 5
[10:04] <Kilos> aha ty magespawn
[10:05] <magespawn> not much difference between cat6 and cat5e though
[10:05] <superfly> hi
[10:24] <Squirm> it has a higher bandwidth capacity
[10:26] <Squirm> so you can run more along the same cable
[10:33] <Kilos> ty
[10:45] <Kilos> wbb
[10:46] <nuvolari_> o/ oh hi
[10:46] <nuvolari_> lunch
[10:59] <Squirm> hmm
[10:59] <Squirm> it is lunch
[10:59] <Squirm> awesome
[11:24] <Kilos> lol
[11:53] <Kilos> hi jpmeijers__  hoe gaan dit?
[12:14] <jpmeijers__> o
[12:14] <jpmeijers__> is dit my naam?
[12:14] <jpmeijers__> wow
[12:15] <jpmeijers__> goed dankie oom kilos, en self?
[12:15] <magespawn> Kilos here you go http://www.broadbandutopia.com/caandcaco.html
[12:16] <Kilos> lekker dankie jp
[12:16] <Kilos> aha its kerby
[12:51] <Kerbero> ;)
[13:32] <Kilos> hi Private_User
[13:39] <Private_User> hey Kilos
[16:28] <Kilos> si-ilence
[16:28] <Kilos> silence is go-olden
[16:29] <charl> good evening
[16:29] <Kilos> hi charl
[16:29] <charl> hi Kilos
[16:30] <charl> inetpro: you must update that topic man, it still says next meeting is in august
[16:30] <Kilos> oh my he did
[16:30] <Kilos> i wonder why it reverted
[16:30] <Kilos> inetpro  fix it
[16:30] <Kilos> hehe
[16:31] <Kilos> and tell me what happened
[16:43] <Kilos> oh my the web just hit the brakes
[16:52] <Kilos> na just the 8ta site
[17:31] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:32] <Kilos> charl  you good at reading logs
[17:32] <Kilos> check yesterday , im sure the pro changed the topic
[17:33] <Kilos> Maaz  coffee on
[17:33]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[17:37] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[17:37] <Kilos> Maaz  thanks
[17:37] <Maaz> Kilos: No problem
[18:10] <nuvolari> bah!
[18:10] <nuvolari> help
[18:10] <Kilos> whats happening?
[18:11] <nuvolari> what does it mean if I get a "Sorry domain not found" when requesting an update form from ZA Central Registry/CO.ZA?
[18:11] <nuvolari> oh hi oom Kilos
[18:11] <Kilos> lol
[18:11] <Kilos> it means they are resting
[18:12] <Kilos> hi gremble
[18:12] <nuvolari> I'm trying to take ownership of a domain name that's been registered at an ISP - I want to manage it myself through ZA Central Registry directly
[18:24] <Kilos> hi Vince-0  wb
[18:25] <Vince-0> haai oom
[18:25] <Vince-0> kark busy ek se
[18:25] <Vince-0> here's a loco news item: http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2014/09/16/new-subloco-policy/
[18:28] <Kilos> nuvolari  ask maaz if they are down
[18:29] <Kilos> oh yeah Vince-0  im getting them emails
[18:30] <Vince-0> oh I see Hilton posted it on ubuntu-za list
[18:30] <Kilos> yip
[18:30] <superfly> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i2X9BiHOyLU/VBbUyykfF9I/AAAAAAAAJfc/b4Nwp-bOiFs/w1000-h750/Seems%2Blegit%252C%2Bhaha%2521.png
[18:30] <Kilos> hehe peeps dont like apple
[18:31] <Vince-0> I thought the watch looked pretty sweet
[18:31] <Kilos> almost edible
[18:31] <Vince-0> no man, the real device
[18:31] <Vince-0>  /almost made me want to take a look at one - almost
[18:31] <Kilos> and you can time how long it takes
[18:37] <superfly> I have an LG G Watch right now, and from what I've seen of the Apple Watch, I'll take Android Wear over that any day. It look like Google has done it's research on this one better than Apple has.
[18:37] <Vince-0> moar devices! I'm just tired of taking my phone out my pocket
[18:38] <Vince-0> how's the battery on that lg watch?
[18:38] <superfly> It depends a lot on how you use it, but so far when I take it off and put it on charge at night it's usually sitting at around 40-something %
[18:38] <Vince-0> that's plenty
[18:38] <superfly> and I get up at 6am and am only in bed after 11 pm
[18:38] <Vince-0> I've found never to buy the first release of a device
[18:39] <superfly> I'm borrowing this one from my boss, who got it when he went to Google I/O
[18:39] <Vince-0> yaw
[18:39] <inetpro> hmm
[18:39] <inetpro> good evening
[18:39] <Kilos> hi inetpro  what happened
[18:39] <superfly> hi inetpro
[18:40] <Kilos> you did change the topic didnt you??
[18:40] <inetpro> 13/09 23:39:20 [rajaniemi.freenode.net] [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
[18:40] <Kilos> or am i going more mad than usual
[18:41] <Kilos> eish again
[18:41] <inetpro> 15/09 09:59:10 * rajaniemi.freenode.net has changed topic for #ubuntu-za to: "Ubuntu South Africa http://ubuntu-za.org || MList: http://bit.ly/MCOujZ || PBin: http://slexy.org/ || Logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com || Next Meeting: Tue, 26 August 20:30, Agenda: http://bit.ly/1uGIsqG || Twitter: https://twitter.com/ubuntuza"
[18:42] <Kilos> i was sure you did it
[18:42] <Kilos> charl  take note
[18:43] <Kilos> ty inetpro  sorry to bug you
[18:43] <Kilos> happy you found the prob
[18:43] <inetpro> Kilos: yes I did it on 15/09 at 09:55
[18:44] <Kilos> so its them bad peeps that crashed something
[18:44] <inetpro> staffers probably restored from backups
[18:44] <Kilos> must be ya
[18:45] <Kilos> should i go ask them to apologise to you?
[18:45] <inetpro> no man
[18:45] <inetpro> no reason to jump up and down
[18:45] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:45] <Kilos> gotcha
[18:46] <Kilos> jou beurt is jou beurt remember
[18:46] <ThatGraemeGuy> lo peeps
[18:46] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[18:47] <gremble> hey Kilos
[18:47] <inetpro> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[19:28] <Kilos> Maaz  google ZA Central Registry/CO.ZA
[19:28] <Maaz> Kilos: "ZACR - ZA CENTRAL REGISTRY" https://www.registry.net.za/ :: "ABOUT THE ZACR | ZACR - ZA CENTRAL REGISTRY" https://www.registry.net.za/content.php?gen=1&contentid=100&title=About%20Us :: "co.za Domain Homepage" http://co.za/ :: "ZA Central Registry CO.ZA Accounts Schedule" http://co.za/schedule.shtml :: "Banking Details / Payments - co.za"
[19:28] <Maaz> http://co.za/banking.shtml :: "Legal FAQ - co.za" http://co.za/legal-FAQ.shtml :: "Contact Details - co.za"…
[19:32] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:38] <charl> ty inetpro
[20:38] <charl> nn all
[23:57] <Joe_knock> Maaz: coffee
[23:57] <Maaz> Joe_knock: coffee is liquid code


[02:06] <mhall119> belkinsa: summit.ubuntu.com?
[02:06] <mhall119> seems okay to me
[02:06] <mhall119> is it only on login that it's having an issue?
[09:44] <belkinsa> mhall119, yup, just log in.
[10:35] <silverlion> hey there. anybody there from canonical?
[10:35] <czajkowski> silverlion: post release day could be a bit quiet
[10:36] <czajkowski> and many are sprinting this week in the uS
[10:36] <silverlion> czajkowski : thanks for the hint
[10:36] <silverlion> I am trying to verify a company which says to be a partner of canonical
[10:37] <czajkowski> silverlion: http://partners.ubuntu.com/find-a-partner
[10:42] <silverlion> ok, that's odd
[10:43] <silverlion> czajkowski : do you know how canonical reacts of a company claims to be a partner of them but seems not to be?
[10:43] <czajkowski> silverlion: site may nt be up to date
[10:43] <czajkowski> silverlion: not sure of their process
[10:44] <czajkowski> silverlion: If you feel it's not correct why not fill in the form and let them know http://partners.ubuntu.com/contact-us
[10:46] <silverlion> thanks. I might do that.
[10:46] <silverlion> because i have a suspicious feeling that something might not be correct
[10:48] <czajkowski> meh some people are just not on the site
[10:48] <czajkowski> don't worry
[10:48] <silverlion> wilco
[13:52] <jcastro> silverlion, which company?
[13:52] <silverlion> jcastro : hang on a sec pls
[13:54] <silverlion> jcastro : http://www.zyxware.com/ claims to be a partner of canonical and wishes to implement Lubuntu in their shop and being registrated on our webpage
[13:55] <jcastro> hmm, I am not sure.
[13:55] <jcastro> Can you send me a mail and I can pass it along?
[13:55] <jcastro><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:55] <silverlion> if you like I can forward the original mail with all contact details of one of their employees
[13:56] <jcastro> yeah that would be awesome, thanks
[13:57] <silverlion> jcastro : you should have incoming email
[13:57] <jcastro> got it.
[13:58] <silverlion> jcastro : copy that. for your info: we did a little digging on that company on ourselves and got suspicious about them.
[13:59] <silverlion> they emailed our email-list. if you wish I can try to digg out the original mail as well and forward them
[13:59] <jcastro> this is fine
[13:59] <jcastro> I just need to convert it to plaintext
[13:59] <silverlion> ups ^^ my bad
[14:00] <jcastro> no worries, I get this enough times to know what to do, heh
[14:01] <silverlion> I'll be idling in the background for the rest of the day from now on. so if anything is needed from your end, just ping me ;)
[14:01] <jcastro> actually this one is particularly horrible, can you copy and paste in plaintext?
[14:02] <silverlion> jcastro : on it ;)
[14:04] <silverlion> jcastro : incoming txt file ;)
[14:04] <jcastro> \o/
[14:04] <jcastro> ok the guys I'm mailing are in london, so hopefully they haven't left yet
[14:05] <silverlion> jcastro : I'll advice our admins to stall them as long as possible ;)
[14:05] <jcastro> can you mail me what exactly they asked for? Just in case  I need it
[14:05] <jcastro> whatever they sent to the list I guess
[14:05] <silverlion> jcastro : as soon as our Mailing-List admin is available you'll get the original email
[18:13] <popey> dholbach__: hey, come sit here, we can share charger?
[18:15] <dholbach__> popey, I'm still fine for a while, but want to charge a bit before I fly out tonight - should be fine
[18:15] <popey> well, i'm 100% and mike isn't on a hangout yet
[18:18] <popey> dholbach__: mike's battery is dead, he won't be coming, so you can have your power ☻
[18:19] <elfy> blimey - don't they pay you enough for a charger each :p
[18:19] <popey> heh
[18:20] <popey> no. please donate.
[18:20] <elfy> ha ha ha
[18:20]  * elfy sends popey etherelectrickery
[18:24] <silverlion> o/ popey & dholbach__
[18:24] <dholbach__> hi silverlion
[19:36] <mhall119> elfy: my problem was with my car, not my laptop :(
[19:37] <elfy> oh - that's worse - can't send enough etherelectrickery for that - sorry ;)
[19:55] <mhall119> elfy: that's okay, turns out it wasn't the battery afterall, the shift cable broke
[19:57] <elfy> oh dear
[19:57] <elfy> I don't have that problem - no car :)
[19:58] <mhall119> well you and I are currently in very similar situations then :)
[19:58] <elfy> ha ha ha
[19:58] <elfy> mhall119: kind of - you do *have* one - it's probably worse than not having one at all though lol
[20:00] <mhall119> yeah, a broken car is worse than no car
[20:00] <mhall119> I'm hoping for a cheap/easy fix
[20:01] <elfy> I would be too :)


[00:51] <sadmac> Keybuk: around?
[03:03] <iamthelostboy> hello :)  is it possible to start an x application from upstart?
[03:04] <iamthelostboy> im trying to do an `exec xinit <application>`, when `xinit <application>` works from the command line, though not from upstart
[03:05] <iamthelostboy> the job starts another application prior to the exec command, which isnt preceeded with exec, just not the x command..
[03:09] <sadmac> iamthelostboy: what's the error?
[03:09] <iamthelostboy> doesnt seem to be anything..
[03:09] <sadmac> check your system logs
[03:09] <iamthelostboy> im just trying to start it on the command line... start <job>
[03:14] <iamthelostboy> doesnt seem to be much happening in syslog..
[03:14] <iamthelostboy> just a job main process killed by TERM signal.. from when I stop the job, i assume
[03:21] <sadmac> hmm
[03:21] <sadmac> what about in your xorg logs?
[03:23] <iamthelostboy> its not getting written..
[03:23] <sadmac> hmm
[03:23] <iamthelostboy> x doesnt appear to be starting at all
[03:23] <iamthelostboy> should that command work ?
[03:23] <sadmac> after you do start foojob what does initctl list say?
[03:23] <iamthelostboy> do i have the direct the console in some way ?
[03:23] <sadmac> X gets its own console
[03:24] <iamthelostboy> sorry.. how do i use initctl? im still a little new at some of this stuff
[03:25] <sadmac> initctl list
[03:25] <iamthelostboy> that particular job is running with a pid..
[03:26] <sadmac> but no X session?
[03:26] <iamthelostboy> in ps -A the pid is shown as sh, with the following pid as the first executable in the job
[03:26] <sadmac> which is?
[03:27] <iamthelostboy> our own executable
[03:27] <sadmac> ok, so apparently that's hanging :)
[03:27] <iamthelostboy> well.. its running
[03:27] <iamthelostboy> the second executable relies on it
[03:28] <sadmac> I'll need to see your job definition
[03:28] <iamthelostboy> and i can run the second outside the job
[03:29] <iamthelostboy> its not too big, so ill just type it here...
[03:29] <iamthelostboy> start on aksusbd 5
[03:29] <iamthelostboy> stop on runlevel [!5]
[03:29] <iamthelostboy> respawn
[03:29] <iamthelostboy> script
[03:30] <iamthelostboy> `/dir/app1
[03:30] <iamthelostboy> exec /usr/bin/xinit /dir/app2
[03:30] <iamthelostboy> end script
[03:30] <iamthelostboy> without the ` on app1
[03:31] <sadmac> comment out app1, and put twm in for app2. see if you get a twm session
[03:36] <iamthelostboy> something happened then.. but im not sure what..
[03:36] <iamthelostboy> ill check what was going on...
[03:42] <iamthelostboy> yeah.. i can get a simple x app started without app1
[03:43] <iamthelostboy> but i still see nothing about x in initctl
[03:43] <sadmac> probably because it forks off.
[03:44] <iamthelostboy> so my job is getting stopped at app1, right? how do i make is run the first app, leave it running, and continue onto the second..
[03:44] <iamthelostboy> i thought it was going to run anything it could, and then pretty much wait at the exec
[03:44] <sadmac> iamthelostboy: its a bash script
[03:44] <sadmac> iamthelostboy: it runs the bash script and monitors the bash script as a service
[03:45] <iamthelostboy> so.. if the 2 apps weren't in the script tags it would run differently
[03:45] <sadmac> iamthelostboy: you exec so that your service replaces the bash script and steals its pid and parentage
[03:45] <sadmac> iamthelostboy: no, the job wouldn't work.
[03:45] <iamthelostboy> oh
[03:48] <iamthelostboy> i read somewhere that if i background an app in a job, upstart will see the job as complete and exit?
[03:48] <sadmac> no...
[03:48] <iamthelostboy> or could i simply run app1 & -- xinit app2
[03:48] <sadmac> not if there's further scripting
[03:48] <sadmac> yeah. that'd do it
[03:56] <iamthelostboy> of course, now that i have seen it working...
[03:56] <iamthelostboy> when i stop the job, only app2 ends, which makes sense now..
[03:56] <sadmac> yep
[03:56] <iamthelostboy> but isnt really right
[03:56] <sadmac> put in another job
[03:57] <sadmac> and give it start on starting app1job
[03:57] <iamthelostboy> yeah.. i think ill have to
[03:57] <iamthelostboy> do i have to put anything special into the app1 job file to emit the event?
[03:59] <sadmac> if you want a special event then yes. starting app1 is emitted automatically
[04:00] <iamthelostboy> thanks :) will try it out
[15:47] <sadmac2> Keybuk: ping
[15:47] <Keybuk> hey
[15:48] <sadmac2> Keybuk: remember when we talked about objects with no parents being "parented to NULL"?
[15:48] <Keybuk> vaguely
[15:48] <Keybuk> that's the way things work
[15:49] <sadmac2> Keybuk: ok, so suppose we actually maintained a child list for NULL, and nih_free(NULL) freed all of NULL's children
[15:50] <sadmac2> Keybuk: and suppose we ditched nih_local and made nih_unref behave like nih_unref_only
[15:50] <sadmac2> Keybuk: and suppose we called nih_free(NULL) at the end of nih_main_loop_iter
[15:50] <sadmac2> Keybuk: see where I'm going?
[15:50] <Keybuk> err, wouldn't that make things die in a great big fire
[15:50] <Keybuk> you have to have some top-level objects
[15:51] <Keybuk> you'd free them every main loop iteration
[15:51] <Keybuk> and you make nih_local depend on the main loop
[15:51] <Keybuk> whereas now, it's actually limited to the C context, which is better
[15:51] <sadmac2> nih_local would just go away
[15:51] <Keybuk> and this is a good thing, because?
[15:52] <sadmac2> completely, utterly impossible to have forget-to-free errors
[15:52] <sadmac2> we've written 9/10 of an automatic garbage collector. why not finish it?
[15:54] <Keybuk> well, ignoring the fact you're over-freeing everything
[15:54] <sadmac2> fixable...
[15:55] <Keybuk> I don't see that it buys anything?
[15:55] <Keybuk> things like initctl don't necessarily have a main loop
[15:55] <Keybuk> so nothing would be freed
[15:55] <Keybuk> and it's not the kind of thing you want to do in a main loop _anyway_
[15:55] <sadmac2> they can call it manually.
[15:55] <sadmac2> nih_free (NULL); or perhaps a more descriptive macro. NIH_GC_CHECKPOINT;
[15:56] <Keybuk> I prefer nih_local
[15:58] <mbiebl> sadmac: seen your nice man pages for events
[15:58] <mbiebl> would you care to submit that upstream
[15:59] <sadmac2> mbiebl: notting wrote those.
[15:59] <sadmac2> Keybuk: want em?
[15:59] <Keybuk> sure, send to ML
[15:59] <mbiebl> sadmac: is there other nice stuff hidden in the fedora package ;-)
[16:41]  * cwillu pokes sadmac with a stick
[16:42] <sadmac2> cwillu: yes?
[16:42] <cwillu> nothing it particular beyond the nice man pages :)
[16:42] <cwillu> s/it/in/
[16:43] <cwillu> (in response to 'yes?', not in response to 'is there other nice stuff')
[16:43] <sadmac2> he
[16:43] <sadmac2> +h
[16:46] <Keybuk> there's several patches in there that casey hasn't told me about ;)
[16:48] <sadmac2> Keybuk: I did tell you about that guy contributing the state-transfer stuff, right?
[16:55] <Keybuk> yes
[16:56] <sadmac2> Keybuk: ok, and you know about the force-on-shutdown-reboot one (I think you commented on the bug...)
[16:56] <sadmac2> what else is in here you might be missing...
[16:57] <sadmac2> shit. sent from the wrong email address. Now I'm being moderated.
[16:57] <sadmac2> damnit thunderbird!
[16:58] <Keybuk> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/upstart/upstart-force-on-shutdown-reboot.patch?view=markup
[16:59] <Keybuk> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/upstart/upstart-gcc43.patch?revision=1.1&view=markup
[17:03] <sadmac2> Keybuk: I'm pretty sure you commented on the bug for #1. Thought the patch got in there
[17:19] <mbiebl> hm, maybe it would make sense to release a 0.3.10 with those patches?
[18:31] <sadmac2> Keybuk: you want to approve my message to upstart-devel with the manpage in it? (I used my school email by mistake, which isn't subscribed)


[00:05] <dutchie> godbyk: going to dike out the \listoftodo at some point?
[00:06] <godbyk> dutchie: I don't have to.  I just add a 'suppress' option when loading the todonotes package and it suppresses the notes and list of notes.
[00:07] <dutchie> coo
[00:07] <dutchie> l
[00:07] <dutchie> hmm, po4a hasn't updated the pot file
[00:07] <dutchie> I'll sort it in the morning
[00:08] <godbyk> yeah, so the notes can hang around for people who are starting to work on the lucid-2e branch.
[00:08] <godbyk> 'kay.
[00:10] <dutchie> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.   So I'm just gonna diff it locally and manually update my stuff. :-/
[00:12] <dutchie> I'm going to bed
[00:13] <dutchie> it's going to be a long morning :(
[00:13] <godbyk> 'kay. see ya in the morning. :)
[00:23] <daker> should i work on the main branch or what ?
[00:23] <daker> godbyk,
[00:24] <godbyk> daker: yeah, you can work on that branch for now.
[00:26] <ubuntujenkins> night again all
[00:49] <daker> godbyk, if i upgrade my karmic to lucid, that will cause something ?
[00:50] <godbyk> daker: upgrading went smoothly for me, but you should definitely back up your data first, just in case.
[00:51] <daker> thanks
[02:53] <donri> They will change back default search engine to Google so if you're covering that or have Firefox screenshots ...
[03:34] <godbyk> donri: yep. I've fixed the translation branch. dutchie is going to update the pot file when he wakes up.  (bzr was giving him some grief earlier.)
[03:35] <donri> Is Bazaar any good?
[03:35] <donri> I plan to migrate from Git to Bazaar but haven't had a project to try it with yet.
[03:38] <godbyk> I don't know enough about the various DVCSs to judge.
[05:36] <jaminday> godbyk: ping
[05:36] <godbyk> jaminday: pong
[05:37] <jaminday> godbyk: hey there, what's the word on the change back to google for lucid
[05:37] <jaminday> will we be breaking writing freeze?
[05:37] <godbyk> jaminday: already did.  I fixed those strings in the lucid-1e branch and pushed the changes.  dutchie is going to update the pot when he wakes up.  (bzr was giving him some fits earlier.)
[05:38] <godbyk> I also fixed the window control buttons order in the manual (since that's been rearranged, too).
[05:38] <jaminday> ah great, that was my next question
[05:38] <jaminday> fantastic
[05:39] <jaminday> so the lucid 1e-branch, is that 2nd edition?
[05:39] <godbyk> It'd make my life easier if people would stop switching things around on me at the last minute. :)
[05:39] <godbyk> the lucid-1e branch is the first edition (hence the 1e)
[05:39] <godbyk> there's a lucid-2e branch for the second edition.
[05:39] <jaminday> ah of course
[05:39] <godbyk> feel free to start jamming on that.
[05:39] <jaminday> yeah i will
[05:39] <godbyk> there's also a maverick branch that we don't need to worry about quite yet, probably.
[05:39] <jaminday> are you updating the style guide in 2e?
[05:40] <jaminday> ok
[05:40] <godbyk> I've created a separate lucid-1e-english branch to tidy up the formatting on the english edition.  that way my rearranging of some strings won't hurt the translations.  (just adjusting the positioning of things, mostly.)
[05:40] <godbyk> I think the style guide is in 2e, yeah. there should be a style-guide.tex file in the root.
[05:40] <jaminday> ok
[05:41] <godbyk> (I've got too many branches now, so I may have tossed it in the wrong one accidentally. double-check me! :-))
[05:41] <godbyk> feel free to start adding content to the style guide, too.
[05:41] <jaminday> hehe yeah it's getting confusing!
[05:41] <jaminday> ok i'll take a look
[05:41] <jaminday> so in lp, what does the ~ mean in front of some branch names
[05:41] <godbyk> some links that may help re: style guide:
[05:41] <godbyk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/
[05:41] <godbyk> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-style-guide/2.30/index.html.en
[05:41] <godbyk> http://oreilly.com/oreilly/author/stylesheet.html#typography_and_font_conventions
[05:42] <godbyk> typically, in lp, the ~ in front of a name refers to a team name or a user name.
[05:42] <jaminday> ok
[05:42] <godbyk> (btw, lucid-2e should be linked to lp:ubuntu-manual, but I haven't tested that yet. you can also do lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-2e)
[05:43] <godbyk> (and it's either 2e or e2.. the branch and the series names don't match. that's why people shouldn't leave it to me to set these things up. ;-))
[05:43] <godbyk> brb.. need some water.
[05:43] <jaminday> heh
[05:43] <jaminday> no prob
[05:45] <jaminday> godbyk: so to make sure i get this straight - all editing should now be done on lp:ubuntu-manual (which is linked to e2), whereas lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1 is currently in writing freeze so content shouldn't be touched
[05:46] <jaminday> is that the right way round?
[05:47] <godbyk> back now.
[05:47] <godbyk> jaminday: yep, you got it!
[05:48] <jaminday> godbyk: great, I would hate to start making changes to the wrong one!
[05:48] <godbyk> and 'writing freeze' is apparently a misnomer.. it's frozen unless and until Canonical et al. changes something again. <grumble>
[05:48] <jaminday> hehe
[05:48] <jaminday> that's right
[05:48] <jaminday> so what is in the maverick branch?
[05:48] <godbyk> the maverick branch is just a copy of 2e. we'll probably have to wipe out what's there and pull in 2e when it's time to start working on maverick.
[05:49] <jaminday> ah ok...
[05:49]  * jaminday just remembered that maverick = 10.10
[05:51] <jaminday> godbyk: one other thing - will the changes RE order of buttons and default search provider make it into e1 or just stay in e2?
[05:52] <godbyk> they should make it into e1.  I've updated the e1 source and dutchie will update the pot so the translators can fix their strings when he wakes up.
[05:52] <jaminday> ok great
[05:53] <jaminday> you probably said that earlier
[05:54] <godbyk> I think so, but I can't keep track of what I've said to whom. :-)
[05:55] <godbyk> We should have someone go through the bugs spreadsheet and mark all the bugs that have been fixed so we know what's left from there.
[05:55] <jaminday> agreed
[05:56] <jaminday> if i can get some time i'll sit down and have a look
[05:56] <godbyk> cool
[05:57] <godbyk> if we haven't already, we should start a to-do list of things to fix, add, improve, etc. for the second edition.
[05:57] <jaminday> yeah and then begin allocating some tasks to people
[05:59] <jaminday> for now i'll probably focus on adding what i can to the style guide (still haven't really had a chance to take a proper look) and going through the bug spreadsheet
[06:16] <godbyk> cool
[06:16] <godbyk> the style guide so far is pretty much just the LaTeX handout I made for those training courses we did a while back.
[06:16] <godbyk> We should look at Ilya's notes for his course and incorporate those in, too.
[06:26] <jaminday> godbyk: ok - is there somewhere I can access Ilya's notes from?
[06:26] <godbyk> jaminday: Check the Help/ dir in the branch. I think all the slides are in there.
[06:26] <jaminday> ok no worries
[06:28] <godbyk> I don't know if we'll have time to pull it off for 2e, but I think we should create a dossier and sample data and use that throughout the manual (examples and screenshots).
[06:29] <jaminday> godbyk: you lost me there... a dossier?
[06:29] <godbyk> Basically, create a fake user that has some emails, a job, a full name, a username, a password, a life, the whole works.
[06:30] <godbyk> Then we use that persona throughout the manual when we're explaining things.
[06:30] <jaminday> ah ok... yeah that makes sense
[06:30] <godbyk> The screenshots currently are of windows with empty text fields.
[06:30] <jaminday> give people a scenario to follow
[06:30] <godbyk> That's not nearly so informative as a screenshot of the window with the text fields filled in with realistic data.
[06:30] <jaminday> yes i agree
[06:30] <godbyk> It provides an example to the reader.
[06:31] <jaminday> we could have a couple of different hypothetical users with different backgrounds/needs etc that might use and set up ubuntu in different ways
[06:32] <jaminday> and refer back to 'joe' or 'mary' in relevant places
[06:32] <godbyk> maybe. as long as it's constructive and not confusing.
[06:32] <jaminday> yep
[06:33] <jaminday> could be worth doing a dummy run at least to see whether it works
[06:33] <godbyk> yeah
[06:35] <godbyk> jaminday: if you're editing the style guide, something that should go in there someplace: chapter headings are title case, all other headings are sentence case.
[06:36] <jaminday> godbyk: noted!
[06:36] <jaminday> i'll add it to my list
[08:33] <ubuntujenkins> hello o/
[09:57] <dutchie> morning
[10:00] <ubuntujenkins> morning dutchie
[10:23] <godbyk> hey, dutchie. ready to tackle those translations?
[10:24] <godbyk> dutchie: I just downloaded the latest .po files and dropped them into the lucid-e1 branch and pushed. might take a few minutes for them to show up elsewhere.
[10:24] <godbyk> dutchie: can you update the translation files for the website (per the mailing list request)?
[10:24] <godbyk> dutchie: and, of course, update the lucid-e1 pot file?
[10:24] <godbyk> I think that'll keep you busy for a while.
[10:25] <godbyk> dutchie: Good morning, btw! ;-)
[10:25] <dutchie> :)
[10:25] <godbyk> (and with that, I'm headed to bed!)
[10:25] <godbyk> feel free to slap bzr around if it's being a pain.  (I think it secretly likes to be slapped around.)
[10:26] <dutchie> heh
[12:23] <dutchie> ffs
[12:24] <dutchie> po4a doesn't work on the netbook, and doesn't update the pot file on the laptop
[12:28] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: is there any thing i can do to help?
[12:30] <dutchie> you can try running this:  po4a --verbose --no-translations --package-name=ubuntu-manual --copyright-holder="The Ubuntu Manual Team" --package-version=`bzr revno` --master-charset=UTF-8 po4a.conf
[12:30] <dutchie> I've got to go now
[12:30] <dutchie> I won't be around much for a week or so
[12:30] <ubuntujenkins> kk
[12:30] <ubuntujenkins> ok I will rember that command
[12:31] <ubuntujenkins> if i have the old main is that now edition 1?
[12:31] <dutchie> dunno
[12:31] <dutchie> I just deleted everything and started again
[14:44] <jaminday> godbyk: you still around?
[14:51] <ubuntujenkins> jaminday: he is asleep can i help in anyway?
[14:56] <jaminday> ubuntujenkins: yes you probably can - do you know much about apache?
[14:59] <ubuntujenkins> jaminday: I know basically nothing on apache i am afraid, kevin is usually awake in about 5 hours. sorry
[14:59] <jaminday> hehe no worries, thanks for the offer though!
[15:00] <ubuntujenkins> all i know is i have it installed :-)
[15:00] <jaminday> hehe yeah me too. i'm getting stuck trying to figure it out and figured i should ask someone wiser than i!
[15:01] <ubuntujenkins> I would like to find out too. I want to be able to do what ben does and give links to people
[15:01] <ubuntujenkins> I could use dropbox but this way would be cooler
[15:01] <jaminday> yeah having a home server is much nicer than dropbox
[15:02] <jaminday> although dropbox is great
[15:02] <ubuntujenkins> I konw i have two of them running at once
[15:02] <jaminday> on the one computer?
[15:03] <ubuntujenkins> yep in my user http://wiki.dropbox.com/TipsAndTricks/MultipleInstancesOnUnix along with a script that means they update very 15 minutes rather than seeing the icons
[15:04] <jaminday> wow i didn't know that was possible. I'll check it out
[15:04] <ubuntujenkins> I didn't untill the other day this is also useful.  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1321847
[15:05] <ubuntujenkins> I don't ususally use scripts form random places but that one ^ is simple to understand.
[15:06] <jaminday> yeah nice, i like it
[15:24] <jaminday> well, off to bed. Night ubuntujenkins
[15:52] <danyR> hey guys. I've detected a somewhat big mistake in Ubuntu Manual. You refer that in order to adjust the volume, people shoud lef-click. It's wrong. As of Lucid, volume indicator has benn converted into an app indicator and is functions are acessible trough right-click
[15:53] <danyR> ups, forget. my bad
[15:53] <danyR> it's right. sorry, sorry :|
[15:53] <danyR> gotta get some sleep...
[15:55] <ubuntujenkins> night danyR, nice to see you are checking the manual in detail
[20:14] <daker> godbyk here ?
[20:44] <dutchie> ooh, po4a has decided to work
[21:08] <dutchie> right, pushed
[21:09] <dutchie> my last action until about wednesday :)
[21:44] <ubuntujenkins> evening hows things?
[21:44] <dutchie> I hate packing
[21:44] <dutchie> that is all
[21:45] <ubuntujenkins> i did all mine at 2.30am in the morning, last time
[21:46] <dutchie> I'm leaving at 7, so I don't fancy doing that
[21:48] <ubuntujenkins> I was up at seven that day, have a fun time away
[22:17] <godbyk> I'm back now.
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
[22:17] <godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins. how goes it?
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> not bad thanks family is back home now so more revision distractions, how are you?
[22:20] <godbyk> I hear ya.  Not doing too bad. Had a slower start to the day as my shower head broke.
[22:20] <godbyk> I figured that was a good excuse to take a nice, relaxing bath. :)
[22:20] <ubuntujenkins> sounds like a good idea to me. I like baths
[22:20] <dutchie> I have no idea what is in that suitcase
[22:21] <dutchie> I am beyond caring
[22:21] <ubuntujenkins> If you are going somewhere nice can you fit the team in?
[22:21]  * godbyk screams, "Take me with you!"
[22:22] <dutchie> it's only belgium
[22:22] <dutchie> for 4 days of intense rowing training
[22:22] <ubuntujenkins> right team all to dutchie's! :P
[22:23] <ubuntujenkins> we will all sight see and do team building stuff
[22:23]  * ubuntujenkins silly fly in my room
[22:42] <godbyk> Hey, guys. humphrebc has an etherpad set up here: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/interviewswithhumphreybc
[22:42] <godbyk> If you can think of some points that he should mention during his podcast interviews this weekend, add 'em to the list.
[22:42] <godbyk> (or feel free to just brain-dump into the pad. he's going to read it when he gets home in a few hours.)
[22:47]  * ubuntujenkins writes random thought
[22:47] <ubuntujenkins> *thoughts
[22:57]  * godbyk thinks we should've just written the manual in an etherpad!
[22:58] <dutchie> heh
[22:58] <dutchie> that would have been fun
[22:58] <ubuntujenkins> I was thinking about some of the quickshot stuff in etherpad
[23:08]  * Daker is fighting with a roolkit
[23:08] <dutchie> nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
[23:08] <ubuntujenkins> whats a roolkit Daker ?
[23:08] <dutchie> (assuming he means rootkit)
[23:09] <ubuntujenkins> I thought he may have ment toolkit
[23:09] <Daker> yeah rootkit
[23:10] <ubuntujenkins> how can you get them?
[23:10] <Daker> stupid WintoZ
[23:10] <Daker> ubuntujenkins: on Windows Sp2
[23:10] <ubuntujenkins> i see makes more sense
[23:11]  * dutchie goes to bed
[23:11] <dutchie> night
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> night dutchie
[23:11] <Daker> a fucking systr.dll
[23:11] <Daker> night dutchie
[23:19] <Daker> ubuntujenkins: is there any software for radio automation on ubuntu ?
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> Daker: not as far as i know. you do mean radio as in the thing you listen too right?
[23:21] <Daker> yes
[23:22] <Daker> the only one i know is http://www.rivendellaudio.org/
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> I am not aware of raido software, out of interest what are you trying to do?
[23:22] <Daker> but i think it works only on OpenSuse
[23:23] <Daker> nothing just a fan of webradio
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> Daker: you could try rpm to deb to convert it
[23:24] <Daker> oki i'll try
[23:24] <ubuntujenkins> worth a shot, i am unsure how it works i used it once a long time ago
[23:25] <Daker> ubuntujenkins: one of projects http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs496.snc3/27087_427983093711_121189603711_5412257_715279_n.jpg
[23:26] <ubuntujenkins> nice :-)
[23:27] <Daker> http://power-beat.sf.net
[23:29] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[23:31] <Daker> thnx
[23:40] <Daker> ubuntujenkins: quickshot.org still free
[23:43] <ubuntujenkins> Daker: we are unsure on that yet there is a small discusion on the etherpad on that
[23:44] <ubuntujenkins> sorry my laptop locked up
[23:44] <Daker> no problem
[23:44] <Daker> night all
[23:44] <ubuntujenkins> night Daker
[23:58] <ubuntujenkins> night all


[08:14] <darkxst> roasted, re your comment the other day, ubuntu is now a cycle behind gnome. so Saucy will be 3.8, but we will have 3.10 on the ppa
[08:55] <jemadux> what version has 13.04 on ubuntu ?
[09:34] <darkxst> jemadux, 3.6
[09:34] <darkxst> jemadux, and 3.8 on ppa
[09:34] <darkxst> ricotz, hi
[09:34] <jemadux> i see ;)
[09:35] <ricotz> darkxst, hi
[09:36] <darkxst> ricotz, so what happens with clutter now? it should be bumped to clutter-2.0?
[09:36] <darkxst> (given the api bump?)
[09:36] <ricotz> clutter doesnt break api
[09:37] <ricotz> and there will be no 2.0 release afaik
[09:37] <ricotz> clutter 1.16 is the current dev branch
[09:38] <ricotz> cogl is the problem
[09:38] <darkxst> oh right, I was looking at clutter master
[09:39] <ricotz> they current release situation is a bit problematic since clutter 1.15.2 doesnt build against cogl 1.15.2 (with enabled wayland backends)
[09:40] <ricotz> darkxst, for both cogl and clutter the 1.16 branches are the current ones
[09:41] <darkxst> ok
[09:41] <ricotz> darkxst, sorry, so it seems wise to wait for the next clutter/cogl round for the ppa, so don't wait for them in staging
[09:42] <darkxst> right, theres no actual dependency on the yet anyway, right?
[09:43] <ricotz> no, not yet
[09:47] <ricotz> darkxst, do you know why jbicha pushed gvfs to the "normal" ppa?
[09:48] <ricotz> (while it is systemd enabled)
[09:48] <darkxst> ricotz, he had a gvfs mp for enabling goa
[09:49] <ricotz> this is not what i asked ;)
[09:49] <ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+sourcepub/3363736/+listing-archive-extra
[09:50] <ricotz> this was probably meant for the staging/raring ppa
[09:59] <darkxst> yeh perhaps, but the one in staging has goa enabled and this new one doesnt?
[09:59] <darkxst> so  i have no idea really
[15:26] <roasted> hello friends
[15:38] <ricotz> jbicha, hi
[15:38] <ricotz> :)
[15:39] <ricotz> did you intend to upload gvfs (systemd enabled) to gnome3-team/gnome3 instead of the gnome3-staging?
[15:39] <jbicha> ricotz: oh
[15:41] <jbicha> no I was just uploading for goa support but it looks like seb128 wants that in a separate package if possible
[15:44] <ricotz> jbicha, hmm
[15:44] <ricotz> let's see where the screams come from if it breaks things
[15:45] <jbicha> I'll do another upload later today at least
[15:45] <jbicha> thanks for letting me know :)
[15:46] <roasted> do you guys actively work for Ubuntu/Gnome, or are you guys hangin out on the back porch at home doing this?
[15:46] <ricotz> jbicha, yw
[15:46] <ricotz> jbicha, i am not objected to push the systemd enabled stack to gnome3-ppa if it only breaks unity stuff
[15:51] <jbicha> ricotz: well it's not needed until g-s-d 3.8 is ready for the gnome3 ppa
[15:53] <ricotz> jbicha, fair enough
[16:01] <jbicha> roasted: Ubuntu GNOME is a volunteer project, there aren't any paid positions if that's what you're wondering
[16:02] <roasted> jbicha: I kind of thought so. I just wasn't sure. :)


[05:25] <ojwb> does anyone know somebody useful at citylink to prod about their mirroring?
[05:26] <ojwb> it seems they're using a really old version of ftpsync which leaves long windows when the mirror isn't consistent (at least for ftp.nz.debian.org)
[20:08] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:09] <ibeardslee> ojwb: I saw a comment in irc that we've started syncing out internal (debian) mirror off ftp.au.debian.org
[20:40] <ajmitch> morning
[21:47] <G> morning
[21:48] <thumper> morning
[22:02] <olly_> morning
[22:15] <hads> morning
[22:29] <chilts> morning
[23:07] <Atamira> morning


[08:01] <mup> Issue operator#455 opened: JUJU_MODEL_NAME not initialized by harness <Created by stub42> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/455>
[08:20] <mup> Issue operator#455 closed: JUJU_MODEL_NAME not initialized by harness <Created by stub42> <Closed by stub42> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/455>
[09:39] <Chipaca> i'm not half asleep, *you're* half asleep
[09:41]  * bthomas wonders if Chipaca is talking in his sleep
[09:43] <Chipaca> bthomas: too little sleep is indeed the problem
[09:43] <bthomas> Indeed. I recently read it can contribute to build of beta-amyloid plaques in the brain too.
[09:44] <Chipaca> ooh! are they blue plaques?
[09:45] <bthomas> Don't know their color. But I have redshift installed on all my devices so when I try to read and fall asleep the blue light of devices does not disrupt my sleep cycle.
[09:46] <Chipaca> my wifi cuts out at 11pm, but i still didn't get to sleep until past 2 :-(
[09:46] <bthomas> Oh no. I am surprised though since you have a healthier lifestyle than me, going for runs and all that.
[09:47] <Chipaca> heh, maybe i should've gone for a run yesterday
[09:47] <Chipaca> i was still sore from running saturday though 🙂
[09:48] <bthomas> Also latent stress can disrupt sleep. I learn't from a BBC documentary that sleep can be induced by a drop of body temperature. So having a hot shower before going to bed one gets sleep when body temperature drops.
[09:49] <Chipaca> showers wake me up though
[09:49] <Chipaca> anyway, it's not too bad
[09:49] <Chipaca> used to be i'd be weeks on end like this
[09:49] <Chipaca> now it's only once a week or two
[09:50] <Chipaca> so the running has helped
[09:50] <bthomas> That sounds better.
[09:57] <mup> Issue operator#456 opened: Test harness relations missing Juju managed data <Created by stub42> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/456>
[10:04] <mup> Issue operator#457 opened: Test harness relations cannot be initialized with data <Created by stub42> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/457>
[12:01] <mup> Issue operator#458 opened: a charm with an empty actions.yaml trips up the framework <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/458>
[13:54] <bthomas> Is there a specification or standard on what data *must/will* be provided for each event type. In particular relation_departed and relation_broken. I presume for the former it is at least unit name. Though the latter could be relation name it does not seem necessary.
[14:04] <Chipaca> i don't think there is, hence my suggestion to look at what juju does IRL
[14:08] <Chipaca> tests pass! woo. time for a break.
[14:30] <bthomas> Not related to my changes but I am seeing "KeyError: 'google'" at "operator/test/test_infra.py", line 86, in test_pep257 on my system. Could be a pydocstyle version issue but "requirements-dev.txt" does not specify which minimal version of pydocstyle is required. If I switch from "google" to "pep257" convention then the test runs but fails because it detects many violations of D200, D204, D205, D400, D401 and D413.
[14:31]  * bthomas goes to make some coffee
[14:41] <bthomas> If no one has any objection I would like to switch from google to PEP257 convention, add the violations to the current ignore list, create a issue to fix all PEP257 violations, and undertake to do so myself in a future PR.
[14:42] <bthomas> Chipaca: ^
[15:21] <bthomas> yay! first remove relation test passed
[15:35] <bthomas> Looks like now one is objecting to ^ :-). Changes made. Will be part of my PR. Too late now :-).
[15:44] <Chipaca> bthomas: -1 to switching docstyle conventions
[15:48] <bthomas> Chipaca : hmm OK. I am not hung up on it. Any ideas why I am seen the error mentioned above.
[15:49] <Chipaca> bthomas: no 🙂 what changed at your end?
[15:49] <bthomas> nothing changed. It is not related to my changes. I can stash them and still see the error.
[15:51] <bthomas> Also I would +1 for PEP257 official standard. They violations are all silly and easy to fix but kind of enforce formatting consistency like linkbreaks and full stops etc. If you change you mind I can fix them after this PR.
[15:53] <Chipaca> bthomas: I might be misunderstanding, but if I am not, you're suggesting changing from a convention from 2011 (google's) to one from 2001 (pep257)
[15:55] <bthomas> Chipaca: that I am not sure about the date. I tried the switch from `.google` to `.pep257` because I was getting a KeyError `.google`. I think this may be because of pydocstyle version. I think requirements-dev needs a minimal version for pydocstyle.
[15:55] <bthomas> Can look into it once I get all my unit tests in place.
[15:56] <bthomas> PEP257 seems to be stricter than google though.
[15:56] <Chipaca> bthomas: what version pydocstyle do you have?
[15:56] <Chipaca> bthomas: i'm not certain about those dates either
[15:56] <Chipaca> bthomas: but, we should discuss this when facu is around
[15:56] <Chipaca> not sneak it in while he's away :-D
[15:57] <Chipaca> certainly let's discuss it
[15:57] <Chipaca> but meanwhile let's unblock you
[15:57] <bthomas> Ok, Got it. Will discuss with facu. My docstyle is version is 2.1.1
[15:57]  * bthomas promises to be good and not sneaky :-)
[15:57] <Chipaca> bthomas: how?
[15:57] <Chipaca> bthomas: i have 5.1.1 here; how do you have 2.1.1? :)
[15:57] <bthomas> Chipaca: I am not unblocked
[15:57] <bthomas> opps meant blocked
[15:58] <bthomas> no big deal.
[15:58] <bthomas> So it is indeed version, issue. I will update. I used ubuntu package.
[15:58] <Chipaca> ahhh
[15:58] <Chipaca> also, aaah
[15:58] <bthomas> did not realize tit was that old
[15:58] <bthomas> I am on focal fosa 20.04
[15:58] <Chipaca> i cannot comment on the age of tits
[15:58] <bthomas> :-)
[15:58] <bthomas> oops
[15:58] <bthomas> NSFW
[15:59] <Chipaca> probably pretty old, as passerines are a very large family
[15:59] <bthomas> he he
[15:59] <Chipaca> and speciation takes time
[16:00]  * bthomas rofl
[16:04] <bthomas> Chipaca: Should we remove_relation_unit(self, relation_id: int, remote_unit_name: str) OR remove_relation_unit(self, relation_name: str, remote_unit_name: str) ?
[16:04] <bthomas> Note first argument and type
[16:06] <bthomas> It is all a question of if we expect client to retain relation id through their workflow.
[16:06] <bthomas> s/through/through out/
[16:08]  * bthomas tries to do a quick tea before standup
[16:26] <bthomas> Current it is implemented as relation id for first argument
[16:38] <Chipaca> bthomas: sorry was in a meeting
[16:39] <Chipaca> answered in the standup now
[16:41] <bthomas> agreed. leaving as is for now.
[16:59] <mup> PR operator#459 opened: Treat empty actions.yaml as no actions.yaml <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/459>
[17:00] <Chipaca> bthomas: ^ if you have a mo'
[17:02] <bthomas> having a look.
[17:05] <bthomas> done
[17:06] <Chipaca> bthomas: thanks 🙂
[17:06] <Chipaca> the meat of the change is two lines, the rest of the diff is tests 🙂
[17:06] <Chipaca> maybe i should've lead with that
[17:06] <Chipaca> anyway, thanks
[17:11] <bthomas> saw that.
[17:20] <bthomas> Chipaca: forgot to mention in standup, for the remove relation tests I need to do harness.begin() because the removing implementation in harness uses self._charm to emit events. Can I presume that a client in a test (or not ?) will not try to remove a relation or unit without doing harness.begin(). I can ofcourse defend against _charm is None but will not be able to emit events, at least as implemented now.
[17:21] <Chipaca> bthomas: emiting events should be guarded for _charm being None and events being disabled
[17:21] <bthomas> got it thanks
[17:21] <Chipaca> bthomas: as in the 'if self._charm is None or not self._hooks_enabled' guards you'll see
[17:21] <bthomas> indeed
[17:22] <Chipaca> that's what those are about 🙂
[18:10] <mup> PR operator#460 opened: Remove relation test <Created by balbirthomas> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/460>
[18:11] <bthomas> Chipaca: https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/460 Just draft for now. Will sleep over it tonight, think it over again, self review tomorrow and create PR.
[18:11] <mup> PR #460: Remove relation test <Created by balbirthomas> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/460>
[18:12] <bthomas> However if you have a need for a catharsis and can't find a punching bag, feel free to do get youre release :-)
[18:13]  * bthomas is tempted to call it a day for now
[18:20]  * bthomas EODs but is still around for a bit