[00:00] <brousch> looks about the same for local stuff
[00:00] <rick_h> yea, but it's built for remote
[00:00] <rick_h> and doesn't have the built in dep checking/etc
[00:01] <rick_h> rake in ruby and paver scons are probably closer
[00:01] <rick_h> paver/scons in python
[00:14] <brousch> I am liking Fabric. I can replace my usual scripts dir with one fabfile
[00:14] <brousch> And it's python
[00:15] <rick_h> yea, I ran half of morpace with fabric
[00:15] <rick_h> I didn't do makefiles nutil joining canonical
[00:15] <rick_h> anmd
[00:15] <rick_h> and then came around that they're better for what I wanted to do
[00:15] <brousch> I like to stick with pure python whenever possible. Makes it easier when I have to touch Windows
[00:18] <rick_h> yea, it's a good in theory
[00:19] <rick_h> but shell ispowerful, make can call python scripts, and one less dep to install, installing fabric can be a pita
[00:27] <brousch> Why is that?
[00:27] <brousch> I did have to install python-dev for it
[00:28] <rick_h> yea, you need python-dev and some ssl stuff for the ssh client
[00:28] <rick_h> and it takes time to compile/etc
[00:29] <rick_h> nice thing is that with the makefile, you can wget that, and run make all and it'll setup the virtualenv, git clone the rpo, install all deps, copiy all settings/etc files, one command, one time
[00:29] <rick_h> I love fabric though, good guys. I've got commits in there
[00:39] <brousch> paver seems much messier
[00:46] <MaskedDriver> brousch: thanks for approving me on Launchpad
[00:48] <brousch> Ah-ha! Flask has it's own script thingy http://packages.python.org/Flask-Script/
[00:49] <rick_h> this is like django management commands
[00:49] <rick_h> not like make
[00:50] <rick_h> or even fabric to an extent
[00:52] <brousch> I can see why you like Make. It's a lot cleaner than these Python alternatives
[00:53] <rick_h> the big thing is that make can detect if a file has changed, and only run a command if it needs to
[00:53] <brousch> I need a pure Python Makefile runner ;)
[00:53] <rick_h> so let's say you want to minify js, bookie's make commands only minify if the original .js files change
[00:54] <rick_h> it's much smarter about things and has some cool concepts/shortcuts
[00:54] <rick_h> shoot, I only barely know enough to make it useful, I
[00:54] <rick_h> 've still not gone through half my make book
[00:55] <rick_h> sweet, laptop is stateside, AK to KY now
[00:55] <rick_h> might make it by wed yet
[00:57] <MaskedDriver> which lappy did you get rick_h?
[00:57] <rick_h> x230
[00:57] <MaskedDriver> Thinkpad?
[00:57] <rick_h> yea, the one true laptop
[00:58] <MaskedDriver> lol
[00:58] <MaskedDriver> that's debatable
[00:58] <rick_h> ready when you are :)
[00:58] <MaskedDriver> what are we laptopping for? what purpose?
[00:59] <rick_h> work, it's my machine I rnu my work/life on
[00:59] <MaskedDriver> so hacking?
[00:59] <rick_h> I have a dock, etc
[00:59] <rick_h> yea, I work from home so my laptop is my work machine, play machine, etc
[00:59] <rick_h> you should come down to CHC weds
[00:59] <MaskedDriver> gotcha... The machine I'd really like is an MSI GT70
[01:00] <MaskedDriver> or one of the new Alienware ones with dual Radeon 7970s
[01:00] <MaskedDriver> ... if only it weren't alienware :(
[01:00] <rick_h> ugh
[01:00] <rick_h> gaming I guess?
[01:00] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[01:00] <rick_h> only reason for that stuff I can think of
[01:00] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[01:00] <rick_h> lol 17" display
[01:01] <MaskedDriver> my boss just bought one with an 18.4" display
[01:01] <MaskedDriver> dumbest thing I've ever seen
[01:03] <MaskedDriver> but yeah... I want something I can also play games on
[01:03] <widox> yikes, 18" laptop display. that sounds to painful to be portable
[01:04] <MaskedDriver> widox: yeah... that'll sit right next to his machine with 64GB RAM, 2 512GB SSDs, 3rd gen i7 and dual Geforce 680's
[01:04] <MaskedDriver> he may or may not make too much money ;)
[01:05] <MaskedDriver> I'm perfectly happy with my 1st gen i7, 12gb ram, and Radeon 6850
[01:05] <Blazeix> i bet that runs solitaire really well
[01:05] <MaskedDriver> Blazeix: naw.. kinda laggy
[01:05] <rick_h> lol
[01:07] <MaskedDriver> he's actually never used it except for the day he built it. He didn't have any room in his house for it
[01:07] <MaskedDriver> my co-worker is borrowing it until he gets moved in to his new place
[01:11] <rick_h> greg-g: you sucker
[01:13] <rick_h> greg-g: got me into this typing game :P
[01:16] <rick_h> http://www.phoboslab.org/ztype/
[01:16] <rick_h> 91% woot
[01:28] <derekv> 2099 91.99 on normal
[01:42] <derekv> 3554 expert
[01:42] <derekv> and it was a bit more intense
[01:58] <rick_h> much better on the desktop keyboard, 96% 24k on normal
[01:58] <rick_h> I'll have to try on the kenisis sometime
[02:01] <MaskedDriver> 3980, 95.5% on normal
[02:02] <rick_h> woot!
[02:02] <MaskedDriver> it's not me.. it's the daskeyboard
[02:02] <MaskedDriver> mechanical keyboard supremecy
[02:02] <rick_h> yea, unicomp model m here
[02:02] <MaskedDriver> very ncie
[02:03] <rick_h> banging the keys sounds like real shots getting fired!
[02:03] <MaskedDriver> agreed
[02:03] <MaskedDriver> are those cherry blue?
[02:03] <rick_h> no, model M buckling spring
[02:03] <MaskedDriver> oooh right
[02:03] <MaskedDriver> I haven't typed on one of those in awhile
[02:03] <rick_h> I've got blue and browns in some leopold 10less keyboards here, not as big a fan as teh springs
[02:03] <rick_h> the kensis uses browns as well I think
[02:03] <MaskedDriver> not a fan of brown
[02:03] <MaskedDriver> I prefer the blue, I'll have to type on the springs again to see how I like that
[02:04] <rick_h> yea, got brown because of the noise in the office when I worked in the office two days a week
[02:04] <rick_h> springs ftw imo, but I tend to swap out keyboards every now and again
[02:04] <MaskedDriver> ah right, way to be considerate :)
[02:04] <MaskedDriver> the day I got the daskeyboard I got it shipped to work and I used it all day
[02:04] <MaskedDriver> folks were NOT happy
[02:04] <MaskedDriver> they'd walk over and yell "CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK!!!!"
[02:05] <derekv> i watched a video, about how that means your pressing down further than you need to
[02:05] <MaskedDriver> anyway, now that I've sufficiently given myself carpel tunnel, I'm going to bed
[02:06] <rick_h> yea, definitely pressing farther than I need to for it to pick it up, but the feel is awesome
[02:06] <rick_h> actually had sore fingers the first week with the unicomp, more muscles ftw! :)
[02:06] <MaskedDriver> derekv: the springs or the cherry's?
[02:06] <MaskedDriver> I guess either
[02:06] <MaskedDriver> but it still increases precision and speed
[02:07] <MaskedDriver> after typing on a mechanical, I'll never go back if I have the choice (I don't at work)
[02:08] <MaskedDriver> not the best for gaming, but that's what I have my Naga and Logitech G13 for. Keyboard is for typing
[02:08] <MaskedDriver> anywho.. have a good night, all. Catch you all tomorrow
[02:09] <MaskedDriver> rick_h: toss me a link in Twitter with info on CHC, I'll try to make it if I can
[02:10] <MaskedDriver> nvm found it on the site. Caribou Coffee
[02:11] <derekv> MaskedDriver, all of them I think
[02:11] <derekv> there's two clicks
[02:11] <derekv> one is softer, indicates you've pressed far enough to register
[02:11] <derekv> the second is louder, its the keycap hitting the bottom of the board
[02:12] <MaskedDriver> I'd say there's three
[02:12] <derekv> kinesis has a modified switch where the first click is softer but they enhance it with an electronic click which you can disable
[02:12] <MaskedDriver> actuating, keycap and retracting
[02:12] <derekv> sure
[02:12] <MaskedDriver> nothing feels better than having the keys push your fingers back up to go straight to the next key
[02:12] <derekv> if your trying to be loud
[02:12] <derekv> =p
[02:12] <MaskedDriver> derekv: I'll take loud over slow and unresponsive any day ;)
[02:13] <MaskedDriver> I doubt those around me would agree, but screw 'em, I say!
[02:13] <MaskedDriver> I'm outtie.. later
[02:17] <derekv> if they can notice you they aren't working hard enough
[03:10] <derekv> you know if I didn't know any better
[03:10] <derekv> i'd say its getting hotter
[03:35] <derekv> typing tutor
[11:11] <snap-l> rick_h: Hope your pup has a speedy recovery.
[11:41] <shakes808> morning all
[11:41] <MaskedDriver> morning
[11:41] <brousch> yes
[11:53] <rick_h> snap-l: thanks, same here poor girl
[11:55] <rick_h> so boy came to me asking to get a tool from the garage because his wooden Thomas train is broken and he needs to fix it
[11:55]  * rick_h is so proud
[11:55] <rick_h> gave him a small screwdriver and told him to get to work lol
[11:56] <MaskedDriver> :)
[11:56] <MaskedDriver> even if he can't fix it.. it's the initiative that counts
[11:56] <rick_h> oh yea, there's nothing wrong with it. I just gave it to him yesterday
[11:57] <rick_h> he's just in an "I've got to fix it" mode
[11:57] <brousch> Nice
[11:57] <rick_h> and figured out dad gets the tools from the garage
[11:59] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[12:42] <brousch> http://slo.craigslist.org/bik/3050996290.html
[12:44] <rick_h> hate the handlebars, but funny
[12:46] <MaskedDriver> fixie don't stop
[12:55] <snap-l> Nuts, I forgot an Ethernet cord for the wireless router I'm bringing tonight
[12:55] <snap-l> anyone got a spare they can put in their backpack?
[12:56] <rick_h> snap-l: sure thing
[12:56] <snap-l> Thanks
[12:58] <rick_h> ~138447
[13:04] <Milyardo> Is CHC tonight or something?
[13:05] <rick_h> MUG is
[13:06] <rick_h> CHC is wed nights
[13:10] <shakes808> about MUG, they guy who tapes the meetings, where does he post those at? I won't be able to make it tonight but would like to watch it.
[13:14] <brousch> rick_h: One less reason to hate JQuery https://github.com/jquery/jquery#modules-new-in-18
[13:15] <rick_h> man, I'm so happy today. Finally an ssh-agent again. Life is sooo ogood
[13:15] <rick_h> brousch: getting closer, now you only need to have node, npm, and grunt installed to tweak your JS usage :P
[13:16] <MaskedDriver> rick_h: lol ofc you find fault with it
[13:16] <rick_h> let me know when I'm wrong and I'll fess up :P
[13:17] <rick_h> what I <3 about the YUI combo loader stuff. By default if you load the right base file, it'll deduce the location of the rest from that and works without running anything
[13:18] <MaskedDriver> but YUI was built by Yahoo! :(
[13:18] <rick_h> yep, clearly they've never had a site with large traffic in their life
[13:18] <MaskedDriver> depends on when those developers started
[13:18] <MaskedDriver> :p
[13:19] <rick_h> le sigh: douglas crockford worked for Yahoo until just recently (last couple of weeks) so they must know nothing of JS now hehe
[13:19] <MaskedDriver> lol
[13:19] <snap-l> What the heck is the point of Two-Factor auth if every application I have needs it's own app-specific password.
[13:19] <snap-l> Sheesh.
[13:20] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: told ya.. you'll have that turned off by week's end
[13:20] <rick_h> it's two factor, not replace everything with one new factor
[13:20] <MaskedDriver> rick_h: doesn't make it any less annoying
[13:21] <rick_h> lastpass, 2-factor to that, and have it auto fill the diff password in each service
[13:22] <brousch> snap-l: Welcome to Google 2-factor hell. Enjoy your stay.
[13:30] <jrwren> rick_h: wtf, how were you without ssh-agent?
[13:30] <jrwren> and for how long?
[13:30] <rick_h> jrwren: about a year
[13:31] <rick_h> jrwren: so there was an update so that the way I ran ssh-agent when I started Awesome broke
[13:31] <jrwren> built by yahoo! is not a :(  yahoo doesn't know how to make money, but they build excellent tech.
[13:31] <jrwren> rick_h: omg, I don't think I could live.
[13:31] <rick_h> and I couldn't figure out how to fix it, so it was started but not before the WM so I lost it on every new terminal
[13:31] <rick_h> if I ran it in a tmux session, that session seemed to keep it
[13:31] <rick_h> so it wasn't that bad, but let's just say I'll never forget my ssh key
[13:32] <rick_h> but today got thinking it must be something in lightdm I could do and found our there's a new .xsessionrc that's run (.xinit isn't I guess)
[13:32] <rick_h> from /etc/X11/Xsession.d scripts
[13:32] <jrwren> export SSH_AUTH_SOCK=`find /tmp/ssh*  -type s -printf "%T+ %p\n" 2>/dev/null | head -1 | cut -f 2 -d " "`  in my PROMPT_COMMAND to fix my agent post-screen reconnection
[13:32] <rick_h> added that and only had to enter my ssh key once in the last hour
[13:33] <rick_h> oh, yea don't know why I didn't see/think of that :P
[13:33] <derekv> i've wasted time being ssh'd to the wrong machine a few times... for a while i had a card in my wallet with fingerprints on it
[13:34] <derekv> ssh is one of my avorite things ever
[13:34] <jrwren> +1
[13:34] <rick_h> yea, agent back is so nice...bzr pull without another key entry, git push without another entry...
[13:35] <rick_h> don't realize how much stuff runs over ssh
[13:35] <derekv> its the more other ssl
[13:35] <derekv> re
[13:35] <jrwren> -R, -L, -D, ControlMaster, ForwardAgent and so on. they are awesome.
[13:35] <derekv> its the other ssl
[13:35] <derekv> ( even more other? )
[13:35] <derekv>  ( otherer?)
[13:36] <jrwren> its at a layer higher than ssl.
[13:36] <derekv> perhaps
[13:36] <jrwren> definite
[13:36] <derekv> and 802.1x is lower
[13:37] <jrwren> i'm not sure what 802.1x is :)
[13:37] <derekv> layer 2(?) authentication
[13:37] <derekv> need to double check, but I think layer 2
[13:37] <jrwren> port based NAC
[13:38] <derekv> that'd be layer 1
[13:38] <derekv> its what enterprise wifi security is based on
[13:38] <derekv> but it predates wifi
[13:38] <derekv> you can run it on wired networks
[13:38] <jrwren> layer1 is the cable
[13:39] <derekv> layer one is physical eg ethernet, layer 2 is like ... the mac addresses ... shiii now i'm not sure
[13:39] <derekv> layer two is like what happens on your subnet
[13:39] <derekv> nah
[13:40] <derekv> the network segment? whats the word i'm looking for... everything behind the router
[13:40] <derekv> often but not nessisarily one subnet
[13:40] <derekv> arp
[13:40] <derekv> switches and hubs
[13:41] <derekv> 802.1x is at that leveel, the switches have to understand it
[13:41] <derekv> you need a radius server
[13:41] <derekv> it encrypts traffic and authenticates
[13:41] <derekv> so you can have encryption over the wire on your lan
[13:41] <derekv> for the paranoid
[13:41] <jrwren> hehe.
[13:41] <jrwren> well, the answer is "it depends"
[13:41] <jrwren> but i KNOW :)
[13:41] <derekv> then they adopted it for wifi
[13:41] <jrwren> *nod*
[13:42] <derekv> =]
[13:42] <derekv> I like explaining stuff
[13:42] <derekv> :p
[13:42] <derekv> gtg
[13:42] <jrwren> wifi mucks it up a bit, because it has its own link layer for doing things like connecting to an SSID
[13:42] <jrwren> yes, its how we learn.
[13:42] <jrwren> just remember, OSI is a MODEL and all models are inaccurate
[13:43] <derekv> yea
[13:44] <derekv> not surprising if wifi modifies 802.1x a bit but its still called 802.1x if you look at the way its spec'd out... the AP surves the same function as a switch...
[13:44] <jrwren> yup.
[13:44] <derekv> I set up a radius AD server for some APs once it was slick
[13:44] <derekv> got it all working cause I was leaving that job
[13:44] <derekv> then my replacement came in and instantly turned it off
[13:44] <derekv> made me sick
[13:45] <jrwren> i've never used an 802.1x lan
[13:45] <derekv> it was working fine, he said, we are going to get some new devices, we don't know if they suport enterprise wlan yet
[13:45] <derekv> i was like, my fucking android supports it
[13:45] <jrwren> you should take pride in your work, but not let your work define you.
[13:45] <derekv> and these will be enterprise devices
[13:45] <derekv> also, then never got these devices
[13:45] <derekv> =[
[13:45] <derekv> they
[13:45] <derekv> yea
[13:46] <derekv> well, I do ... its a shame I can't still be there making everything perfect but I couldn't have stayed there and continued to grow and I can't do everything
[13:46] <derekv> I tried for a bit though
[13:47] <derekv> bbl
[14:00] <rick_h> man I <3 esata "backup this 15GB...ummm...ok....done"
[14:08] <jrwren> if you have really fast disks its even faster than gigabit :)
[14:09] <jrwren> rick_h: what is your position on testing state of private variables. I'd like to change some things to _ private to relay intent, but I want ot test their values too.
[14:18] <rick_h> jrwren: so generally I find it a no-no
[14:18] <rick_h> if I want to test it, I try to test it indirectly
[14:18] <rick_h> that some method does some default thing which might be using that private var
[14:18] <rick_h> jrwren: but it has been done and will be done again I'm sure
[14:27] <jrwren> rick_h: yeah, i agree, i was just looking for someone to tell me it is OK so that I don't do the RIGHT thing and extract a new class with more singular behavior and have those values be public there where it makes sense
[14:28] <rick_h> jrwren: hah, sorry. If the 'right' thing is apparent I say go for it, but I think we've all done the shortcut and as long as it's tested and it changes the breakage is obvious
[14:28] <rick_h> and then you just move the 'right thing' downstream to some poor schmuck who'll do it wrong anyway :)
[14:59] <jrwren> i don't have a downstream
[15:01] <brousch> What an unholy mess
[15:01] <brousch> Working with a n00b on a website, and he started with Dreamweaver.
[15:01] <MaskedDriver> is he a designer?
[15:02] <rick_h> *sigh* getting my django mess from yesterday code reviewed
[15:03] <rick_h> "django has a thing for this, just use that there..." "but the docs say it doesn't" "trust me, it does what you need there"
[15:03] <brousch> No, he is nothing right now
[15:03] <MaskedDriver> ah
[15:03] <brousch> He was going to pay for software to make a javascript slideshow
[15:03] <rick_h> oh geeze
[15:05] <MaskedDriver> lol
[15:05] <MaskedDriver> that's awesome
[15:05] <MaskedDriver> let him do it
[15:05] <brousch> Yeah, I decided to mentor him on this project instead of just doing it myself. Good karma and all that
[15:05] <MaskedDriver> brousch: that's nice of you
[15:06] <snap-l> brousch: When you kill yourself, the gods will smile on your good deeds
[15:06] <brousch> Community building you know
[15:06] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: was about to say something about the same
[15:06] <MaskedDriver> I only have a certain amount of mentoring I can do before I start throwing things
[15:06] <MaskedDriver> someone wanting to BUY a javascript slideshow is where I draw the line
[15:07] <brousch> He just didn't know free stuff was out there
[15:10] <brousch> He had 1 external stylesheet, 3 sections of style in the header, and a bunch of inline styles
[15:10] <brousch> Also bits and pieces of a reset in the header
[15:14] <jrwren> wtf is wrong with buying a slideshow?
[15:14] <jrwren> yeah, its just ignorance, and besides, you buy, you get support.
[15:14] <jrwren> they'd probably hold his hand to code its use.
[15:14] <jrwren> then you don't have to!
[15:16] <brousch> There are 10,000 slideshow frameworks for free. Why would you pay for one?
[15:18] <jrwren> because you are not comfortable suporting a free one and want the security of support for a paid for.
[15:18] <jrwren> same with all dev software.
[15:19] <jrwren> i'm not saying that I would do it. It is a valid reason.
[15:23] <Milyardo> There are people who sell javascript framworks?
[15:23] <brousch> If you're not comfortable using a little javascript slideshow, you have no business trying to make a website
[15:24] <brousch> You will end up buying every little widget
[15:27] <Milyardo> God forbid if you must implement any DSL in javascript
[15:28] <brousch> My guess is he was going to buy a Flash slideshow, not Javascript
[15:31] <jrwren> its not bad at all if you are in the widget selling business
[15:33] <snap-l> It's not bad if people buy from whatever business you're selling. :)
[15:33] <snap-l> If someone buys one of my buggy-whips, I can claim 100% increase in sales
[15:34] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: what was that game we were playing last night? the typing one... do you remember the URL?
[15:34] <snap-l> doesn't hail the return of the horse and buggy
[15:34] <MaskedDriver> my boss wants to check i tout
[15:34] <MaskedDriver> it
[15:34] <snap-l> MaskedDriver: Wrong george.
[15:34] <MaskedDriver> who was it?
[15:34] <snap-l> (ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nRboFgu8Tc)
[15:35] <MaskedDriver> lol
[15:35] <MaskedDriver> http://www.phoboslab.org/ztype/
[15:35] <MaskedDriver> found it
[16:01] <greg-g> g'morning
[16:02] <rick_h> morning greg-g
[16:02] <brousch> Wrong!
[16:02] <brousch> https://github.com/brousch/flask-boilerplate.git
[16:02] <brousch> blah, sorry
[16:02] <brousch> That's not wrong, greg-g is wrong
[16:02] <rick_h> ruh roh, someone fired up brousch
[16:02] <brousch> (12:01:43 PM) greg-g: g'morning
[16:02] <brousch> I don't know if the Flask boilerplate is wrong yet ;)
[16:03] <greg-g> sorry for being a west coast lazy  :)
[16:03] <rick_h> :P
[16:03] <rick_h> are you 3 or 4 hours back. 9am starting time seems a bit slacker :P
[16:04] <Blazeix> 8am is for crazies. ideally that's when you should be thinking about getting up.
[16:04] <rick_h> hah
[16:05] <greg-g> 3
[16:05] <greg-g> hours
[16:05]  * brousch was awakened at 5:20 this morning
[16:05] <greg-g> 9am at the office, been on the train since 8:04
[16:05] <greg-g> I was awake at 5:30 myself :)
[16:05] <rick_h> yea, I got the carbon monoxide detector waking up...tore every fire alarm in the ohuse down doing the "WTF IS BEEPING!" scene you'd expect from a movie
[16:33] <rick_h> ugh, come on EOD
[16:34] <rick_h> widox: check out the end of http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=103983 :)
[16:36] <jrwren> noticed that django source is not 80column limited.
[16:36] <jrwren> i'm really hating python right now.
[16:36] <jrwren> I don't know if i really hate it or if it is just learning pains.
[16:44] <rick_h> django source is crap, no pep8 <3 in there
[16:44] <rick_h> and there's 10 ways to do things
[16:44] <rick_h> I've spent all morning getting told to do it another more django way, only to find that it's broken and there's a 3rd django way I can use instead, if I do all this extra crap
[16:45] <Milyardo> Clearly you should meditate more on way that is Django
[16:46] <rick_h> I'm going to throttle someone is what I'm going to do
[16:46] <MaskedDriver> rick_h: you talking about paul?
[16:46] <MaskedDriver> lol
[16:46] <rick_h> hah
[16:47] <MaskedDriver> I'll let him know, so he can avoid you at the next python convention you're both at
[16:49] <rick_h> just ask him how he feels about django static files, I can't help but think even django fans have to know this is BS
[16:51] <jrwren> so unittest doesn't follow pep8.
[16:51] <jrwren> python is a ghetto
[16:51] <rick_h> yes...it can definitely be
[16:51] <rick_h> now the question is, is unittest2 pep8?
[16:51] <jrwren> maybe I should use testify :)  its the "pythonic" test framework
[16:51] <rick_h> because theyhad a chance to fix it there since it's new and in py3
[16:51] <jrwren> good question.
[16:51] <rick_h> oh freak no
[16:52] <jrwren> testify!
[16:52] <rick_h> nope, damn java naming conventions
[16:53] <rick_h> unittest2 that is
[16:53] <jrwren> so what i've learned from this: pep8 is just a cute idea that no one, not even python core follows, and I can ignore it
[16:53] <rick_h> nooooooooo
[16:54] <rick_h> looks like only a handful of violatoins in unittest2, I can live...but ugh
[16:54] <rick_h> I should submit a damn patch
[16:54] <Milyardo> Style guides were made to be ignored in every language
[16:55] <jrwren> Milyardo: i mostly agree :)
[16:55]  * rick_h goes to lunch...this django bs is making me too damn cranky
[16:55]  * jrwren knows its not really django, but python itself that makes rick_h cranky
[16:56] <rick_h> yea, but every time I try to go to a diff lang...I come back to python
[16:56] <rick_h> says something I guess
[16:56] <MaskedDriver> you're afraid of change?
[16:56] <MaskedDriver> :D
[16:57]  * rick_h looks down at stack of books including R, erlang, haskell, perl, php, JS, mono...
[16:57] <Milyardo> It just means he hasn't gone to emacs LISP yet
[16:57] <rick_h> don't think it's that :P
[16:57] <jrwren> ruby
[16:57] <rick_h> yea, got some of that too
[16:57] <rick_h> but it's like python...just done poorly
[16:58] <MaskedDriver> don't tell that to Google
[16:58] <jrwren> right now I feel python is ruby done poorly
[16:58] <jrwren> i sure hope I come around.
[16:58] <rick_h> heh, as much as python packaging sucks, ruby world sucks more, and at least python is getting better
[16:58] <jrwren> but, prefer list comprehension to use of map just drives me mad!
[16:58] <rick_h> untitest2, virtualenv, mock in 3.3 std lib
[16:59] <snap-l> Python packaging is a lot better imh
[16:59] <snap-l> imho
[16:59] <rick_h> right
[16:59] <rick_h> but still sucks
[16:59] <MaskedDriver> rick_h: paul is fine with static files
[16:59] <snap-l> used to be the Perl packaging was the gold standard, but frankly I'd rather deal with the warts of Python anyday.
  You never serve through django, though
[16:59] <rick_h> MaskedDriver: you do in dev, then have to do magic command BS in production
[17:00] <rick_h> and there's only 15 ways to setup dev/etc routes for static...ugh
[17:00] <MaskedDriver> MaskedDriver: the way it works is, use static for testing viadjango. Once you push to prod, change the static url in the settings to point to static.domain.tld, and host that via nginx and a proxy cache
[17:00] <snap-l> MaskedDriver: ++
[17:01] <MaskedDriver> one sec.. he's telling me how he does it
[17:01] <snap-l> Even just nginx should suffice
[17:01] <rick_h> right, but then you've got to use the magic "congregate" crap to pull all the various static files up to root for nginx to serve
[17:01] <rick_h> what I don't like is all the diff in production/deploy
[17:01] <rick_h> whole codebase is littered with "if settings.debug" crap
[17:02] <rick_h> don
[17:02] <MaskedDriver> he's showing me what he does in dev and production
[17:02] <rick_h> 't do it wrong to start with and quit mucking it up
[17:02] <rick_h> yea, ask him if he's using django.contrib.staticfiles or django.conf.urls.static or django.views.static...
[17:02] <MaskedDriver> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/694/
[17:03] <snap-l> oh good grief
[17:03] <MaskedDriver> I love how I'm the official middleman between you and paul lately
[17:03] <MaskedDriver> lol
[17:03] <rick_h> :) all good
[17:03] <rick_h> anyway, lunch...
[17:04] <MaskedDriver> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/695/
[17:04] <MaskedDriver> edited
[17:04] <MaskedDriver> those are the finders at the top (at the bottom of the paste)
[17:08] <greg-g> w00t, typed my new gpg passphrase flawlessly the first time on the kinesis :)
[17:09] <snap-l> greg-g: congratulations on learning to use a keyboard. ;)
[17:14] <greg-g> man, it is tough!
[17:15] <greg-g> that dang middle finger on my left hand always messing up (as in, apparently I used it wrong for all these years)
[17:16] <MaskedDriver> rick_h: paul says you can join his channel #whube if you wanna talk to him about django stuff
[17:25] <snap-l> paul also says that he would like all payments for services rendered to be made through his agent, snap-l, in small, unmarked bills
[17:25] <snap-l> wherein they will be dispersed into the economy at large.
[17:30] <brousch> rick_h: Staticfiles are a PITA, and it seems like they change how it's done every release
[17:30] <brousch> Which is probably why you end up with outdated info
[17:38] <shakes808> rick_h_: are you running chome canary for your "bleeding edge"-ness?
[17:38] <shakes808> or a beta ver of Chrome
[17:40] <rick_h> shakes808: dev yea
[17:40] <rick_h> bleeding edge
[17:40] <rick_h> MaskedDriver: thanks
[17:40] <rick_h> snap-l: if you want my payments I have for Django, I think you might want to take some motrin first
[17:40] <rick_h> there won't be many $$ going around for my thanks :)
[18:03] <widox> rick_h: haha re thinkpad battery
[18:56] <nullspace> anyone play with voyager yet?
[18:57] <brousch> My 7 of 9 inflatable is well-worn if that's what you mean
[19:00] <nullspace> http://voyager.legtux.org/
[19:00] <nullspace> it's a uhh... blend of xfce
[19:04] <greg-g> brousch: duuuude, come on!
[19:04] <greg-g> if
[19:04] <greg-g> if this channel wasn't welcoming to non-stereotype geeks before....
[19:05] <brousch> Oh fine. My Tuvok inflatable is well worn if that's what you mean
[19:09] <Milyardo> a Voyager fan? Didn't know those existed
[19:09] <nullspace> brousch: serious what's wrong with you, if it's anything other than picard I don't want to talk to you
[19:10] <MaskedDriver> we have a guy here at work that is dead-set on learning java
[19:10] <MaskedDriver> I died a little inside
[19:10] <Milyardo> What's wrong with Java?
[19:10] <MaskedDriver> ick
[19:10] <brousch> MaskedDriver: There's no problem with wanting to learn something. It should always be encouraged
[19:10] <MaskedDriver> it's ugly as hell
[19:11] <MaskedDriver> brousch: he doesn't code at all
[19:11] <nullspace> well that's your opinion, I know plenty of people who would say the same about python and I tell them hey to each their own
[19:11] <brousch> So when he gets into it a little ways, you whip out the Python and show him how it can do the same thing in 1/4 the lines of code and without a bloated IDE
[19:12] <MaskedDriver> yeah
[19:12] <MaskedDriver> that's what I plan on doing
[19:13] <nullspace> I'd suggest not leading into the conversation bad mouthing java
[19:14] <brousch> Java is useful for Android development, if nothing else
[19:15] <rick_h> java's good to at least understand
[19:15] <rick_h> 3/4 of the design books out there are java based
[19:15] <Milyardo> I dunno, I'm a fan of AOP styled java applications
[19:15] <rick_h> and tons of useful tools are in it, lucene, jenkins, solr, hadoop, etc
[19:16] <nullspace> java doc is really nice
[19:16] <rick_h> yea, I use yuidoc for my JS which is much like it
[19:17] <MaskedDriver> I think Android development is the only reason he wants to learn it
[19:17] <rick_h> that's a good reason
[19:17] <rick_h> though I'll be saying web > native for 75% if apps forever
[19:17] <MaskedDriver> rick_h: I'm with you on that
[19:18] <MaskedDriver> I said I'd rather develop a high-functioning web app that works across the board than having to port you app to support the different systems
[19:18] <MaskedDriver> having to tweak it every 2 days when a new Android version gets pushed out
[19:19] <brousch> Send him to PyOhio where I'll (hopefully) talk about programming for Android with Python
[19:19] <MaskedDriver> which IDE do you prefer? I'm partial to eclipse, personally
[19:20] <brousch> For Java or Python?
[19:20] <MaskedDriver> java
[19:20] <brousch> I like Eclipse
[19:20] <MaskedDriver> is it bad that I don't use an ide for python?
[19:20] <brousch> Free, open source, no Oracle taint of evil
[19:20] <Milyardo> I use eclipse for Java development, though only because maven make using it convient
[19:21] <Milyardo> Speaking which, maven is a pretty awesome tool
[19:21] <MaskedDriver> Apache Maven?
[19:21] <Milyardo> Yep
[19:22] <MaskedDriver> never heard of it.. I'll look at it
[19:22] <nullspace> http://maven.apache.org/
[19:22] <Blazeix> it's basically pypi for jvm
[19:22] <MaskedDriver> gotcha
[19:23] <rick_h> I thought maven was more ant/make/etc
[19:23] <nullspace> check out the rest of the java based apache foundation projects
[19:24] <Milyardo> rick_h: that's true as well
[19:24] <Blazeix> it is a build tool too, but the killer feature is lib management
[19:24] <rick_h> ok, I just consider pypi the web app that hosts/serves built python packages
[19:25] <Milyardo> Yeah well you have maven repositories as well
[19:25] <Blazeix> rick_h: really? just the web app?
[19:25] <rick_h> Blazeix: yea
[19:25] <Blazeix> i always thought it was used to describe the entire infrastructure
[19:25] <Milyardo> that maven will go to and fetch what ever depedencies you want
[19:25] <rick_h> the rest is setuptools, etc
[19:26] <rick_h> no, that's why there's so many pypi replacements that allow for serving/etc via the pypi api
[19:29] <Milyardo> Anways with Java, it's strength lies in computational reflection, just describe a model and and you can use reflection to alot of different things with your model
[19:29] <rick_h> http://wiki.python.org/moin/CheeseShopDev
[19:32] <Blazeix> ok, the confusion is that maven hosts their own repositories
[19:32] <Blazeix> you could download maven and host your own packages if you really wanted to
[19:33] <Milyardo> Yeah if you don't define your own repo it looks for jars in Maven's repo be defualt
[19:33] <Milyardo> *default
[19:35] <Blazeix> i know languages like scala and clojure both support maven-style dependencies
[19:36] <Milyardo> That's because Clojure and Scala run in the JVM IIRC
[19:36] <Blazeix> i think they set up their own repos, and use whatever the maven protocol is
[19:36] <Blazeix> right
[19:37] <Milyardo> Yeah, I thought it was a feature in both languages to be able to use any Java library
[19:39] <Blazeix> right, but each language tends to prefer their own libraries
[19:39] <Blazeix> since java-style code would look ugly in scala and clojure
[19:43] <Milyardo> Clojure and Scala both seem to me like you're just neutering yourself by adding fuctional features to a language that can't be it's own meta language
[19:44] <Blazeix> i played with scala for a bit, and i liked it. it's still imperative, but makes it a lot easier to do functional-style dev
[19:45] <Blazeix> it was more functional than c#, but not enough more to make me love it.
[19:49] <Milyardo> There's also the model impedence between structured objects in Java and immutable state in functional languages
[19:52] <Blazeix> you can write ugly mutable code in scala, but it's frowned upon
[19:53] <Blazeix> same sort of way the set! functions in scheme exist
[19:54] <Blazeix> scala has something called 'case classes' which are immutable models
[20:00] <Milyardo> Yeah objects and functional programming just doesn't mix
[20:00] <Milyardo> *don't mix
[20:06] <Blazeix> i'd agree that object mutation doesn't mix
[20:07] <Blazeix> i'm not so sure about objects in general. there's some pretty cool stuff wrt pattern matching immutable objects in scala
[20:08] <snap-l> I think absolutes re absolutely wrong.
[20:10] <jrwren> for a java ide: Jetbrains IDEA
[20:12] <jrwren> Clojure is a full lisp, so it can be its own meta language, AFAIK
[20:12] <jrwren> CLOS would disagree with that statement :)
[20:13] <jrwren> and CLOS has been around for a while.
[20:13] <Milyardo> In CLOS all object are immutable, when working with Clojure and Scala that isn't tha case
[20:13] <jrwren> yup
[20:44] <MaskedDriver> has anyone used owncloud or sparkleshare?
[20:44] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/uyhbx/comc_first_post_here_my_shelfes_finally_filled_up/ <- I have some catching up to do.
[20:46] <rick_h> MaskedDriver: checked out sparkleshare. Just git with gnome bindings afaik
[20:46] <rick_h> snap-l: so when did the wife permit you to take over the living room?
[20:47] <snap-l> rick_h: 4th of never
[20:48] <rick_h> hah
[20:50] <snap-l> She's already talking about moving my skillfully concealed video game stuff from the living room
[20:51] <rick_h> ruh roh
[20:51] <rick_h> guess now's a good time to bring up the annex you've got planned to biuld out to the garage
[20:51] <snap-l> Yeah, apparently I don't play enough Saturn and Dreamcast games to justify the real-estate
[20:52] <rick_h> I feel a resurgance in the force
[20:52] <snap-l> rick_h: I told her we need to build a furnished bomb shelter
[21:06] <llua> @MaskedDriver, i've used owncloud for awhile, personally didn't have a need for it tho
[21:20] <greg-g> I like owncloud, but yeah, it isn't replacing anything yet
[21:21] <greg-g> I can't wait for the git-annex work to produce some fruit


[02:43] <CIA-116> [ubuntu] Alessandro Ghersi<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/ (9 files in 2 dirs) (log message trimmed)
[02:43] <CIA-116> kdenetwork (4:4.5.2-1ubuntu1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low * Merge with Debian git
[02:43] <CIA-116> remaining changes: - debian/control: - Build against libboost1.42-dev - Don't
[03:05] <CIA-116> [ubuntu] Alessandro Ghersi<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/ (21 files in 2 dirs) (log message trimmed)
[03:05] <CIA-116> kdesdk (4:4.5.2-1ubuntu1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low [ Alessandro Ghersi ] * Merge
[03:05] <CIA-116> with Debian git remaining changes: - Build against libboost1.42-dev - kdesdk-dbg
[03:10] <CIA-116> [ubuntu] Alessandro Ghersi<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/ (5 files) (log message trimmed)
[03:10] <CIA-116> kdetoys (4:4.5.2-1ubuntu1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low [ Alessandro Ghersi ] * Merge
[03:10] <CIA-116> with Debian git remaining changes: - Don't add kweather.install (kweather is not
[03:24] <CIA-116> [ubuntu] Alessandro Ghersi<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/ (6 files) kdewebdev (4:4.5.2-0ubuntu1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low [ Alessandro Ghersi ] * Merge with Debian remaining changes: - Build against libboost1.42-dev [ Jonathan Riddell ] * New upstream release
[03:47] <CIA-116> [ubuntu] Alessandro Ghersi<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/ (6 files in 2 dirs) (log message trimmed)
[03:47] <CIA-116> kdeutils (4:4.5.2-0ubuntu1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low [ Alessandro Ghersi ] *
[03:47] <CIA-116> Merge with Debian git remaining changes: - Add libzip-dev,
[07:11] <apachelogger> :O
[07:11] <apachelogger> apparently tonight was merge night
[07:14] <apachelogger> valorie: congrats on membership :)
[07:50] <markey> wow, getting this in kubuntu would be awesome:
[07:50] <markey> http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/parallel
[07:50] <markey> basically, it replaces xargs, and does the same thing with multiple cores
[07:50] <markey> can't find it in the repos, though
[08:06] <persia> markey, Might package it up then, if you like.
[08:06] <markey> persia: that'd be great :)
[08:06] <persia> GNU stuff tends to be easy.  I suspect you can get away with a rules.tiny solution.
[08:13] <valorie> thanks, apachelogger!
[08:13] <valorie> I look forward to meeting y'
[08:13] <valorie> all
[08:13] <valorie> soon
[08:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 662005 likely is caused by bogus packaging
[08:23] <apachelogger> me@logos:~$ dpkg -L okteta | grep designer
[08:23] <apachelogger> /usr/lib/kde4/plugins/designer
[08:23] <apachelogger> /usr/lib/kde4/plugins/designer/oktetadesignerplugin.so
[08:23] <apachelogger> that is pretty wrong right there....
[09:28] <apachelogger> hm
[09:29] <apachelogger> IMHO kdm nees some major reinventing
[09:29] <apachelogger> *needs
[09:29] <valorie> IMO, kubuntu needs to clone apachelogger
[09:29] <valorie> :-)
[09:30] <valorie> you keep finding things that need total rebuilding or reinventing
[09:30] <apachelogger> going to happen at UDS :P
[09:30] <valorie> \0/
[09:30] <valorie> then you'll have time for Disneyland!
[09:32] <valorie> there is a movie about that, though
[09:32] <apachelogger> about cloning?
[09:32] <valorie> watch out when your clones start going crazy and taking over your life
[09:32] <valorie> indeed
[09:33]  * apachelogger wouldnt have a problem with that either
[09:33] <valorie> in fact, probably a disney movie, lol
[09:33] <apachelogger> leaves 100% time for disney
[09:33] <apachelogger> or sleeping
[09:33] <valorie> rofl
[09:35]  * apachelogger notes that actually pretty decent concerts seem to be the week of UDS
[09:35] <apachelogger> next time I need to check that in more timely manner
[09:35] <apachelogger> on 23 there are the toasters
[09:35] <valorie> wow, like who is playing?
[09:36] <apachelogger> mgmt on monday
[09:36] <apachelogger> phoenis on tuesday
[09:36] <apachelogger> massive attack on wednesday
[09:36] <apachelogger> bad religion on saturday
[09:36] <valorie> I would like to see mgmt
[09:37] <valorie> I've seen bad religion, and they are awesome in concert
[09:37] <apachelogger> http://www.thesocial.org/details/?tfly_event_id=12745
[09:37] <valorie> that video link to mgmt you posted earlier is still freaking me out
[09:37] <Sput> apachelogger: isn't kdm in the process of being plasmafied?
[09:38] <apachelogger> Sput: yes, though it needs reinventing under the hood too
[09:38] <Sput> you could make it all pink and fluffy inside!
[09:38] <apachelogger> though I suppose plasmafication makes most of the user visible wrongness disappear
[09:38] <apachelogger> if it should ever land in trunk
[09:38] <apachelogger> Sput: yus, reusing the plasma theme :D
[09:38] <apachelogger> less effort == splendid
[09:39]  * apachelogger notes that ticketmaster.com is quite the bad on usability
[09:39] <valorie> massive attack - eh
[09:39] <apachelogger> valorie: $40 for mgmt it seems
[09:39]  * valorie listens to the toasters on last.fm
[09:39] <valorie> that isn't bad
[09:40] <valorie> although small clubs are more to my liking
[09:41] <valorie> that does involve seeing some bands that are less than cool
[09:41] <valorie> but I've found some awesome ones as well
[09:41] <apachelogger> wikitravel says there is generally good night time entertainment in orlando... even illegal one in the sorta red light district ...
[09:41] <valorie> like Murder by Death
[09:41] <valorie> whom I love
[09:44] <valorie> last.fm's recommendations are pretty darn good!
[09:48] <apachelogger> hm
[09:48] <apachelogger> pam face authentication's qt gui needs
[09:48] <apachelogger> ehm
[09:48] <apachelogger> well
[09:48] <apachelogger> cuteness
[09:48] <apachelogger> in fact I wonder if however made it read the documentation for the widgets do not have layouts assigned to them messing up line wrapping
[09:48] <apachelogger> -.-
[09:50] <Sput> valorie: always a question of the right seed :) plus last.fm sometimes has bad days where it keeps giving me crappy songs
[09:51] <valorie> sure, but I was looking at suggested shows in my area
[09:51] <valorie> helps that Seattle has lots of little clubs
[09:51] <valorie> and the remains of a music scene
[09:52] <Sput> ah, I thought you meant the song suggestions
[09:52] <valorie> I do scrobble to last.fm so it knows what I like
[09:52] <Sput> yeah, I've been scrobbling for years and years
[09:53] <Sput> scrobbled 56707 songs :)
[09:54] <valorie> 44K, behind you
[09:54] <Sput> \o/
[09:54] <valorie> but I do listen to the radio, and that doesn't scrobble
[09:54] <valorie> lol
[09:54] <valorie> sput wins!
[09:54] <Sput> yes I listen to the radio as well, and it scrobbles!
[09:54] <Sput> (mainly because I use amarok as last.fm player)
[09:55] <valorie> right, but i'm listening to NPR
[09:55] <valorie> lol
[09:55] <Sput> NPR?
[09:55] <valorie> National Public Radio
[09:55] <valorie> npr.org
[09:55] <Sput> ah
[09:55] <Sput> I listen to last.fm radio :)
[09:55] <valorie> they are actually good for music
[09:56] <valorie> but mostly news and analysis
[10:10] <DarkwingDuck> valorie: ping
[10:13] <valorie> DarkwingDuck: pong
[10:13] <valorie> I hear you are a Doc person too
[10:13] <valorie> :-)
[10:13] <DarkwingDuck> valorie: Dave Wonderly. Pleased to meet you
[10:13] <DarkwingDuck> :)
[10:13] <valorie> ah!
[10:14] <DarkwingDuck> Aye
[10:14] <valorie> indeed, and soon we'll get to meet in person
[10:14] <valorie> :-)
[10:14] <DarkwingDuck> That we will. We have some work to do
[10:14] <valorie> I was looking through some of the site info
[10:14] <valorie> and it looks..... OLD
[10:15] <valorie> but I assume this means documentation at the app level, not just the site(s)
[10:15] <DarkwingDuck> at doc.kde.org?
[10:15] <DarkwingDuck> Aye
[10:16] <DarkwingDuck> in the help center
[10:16] <DarkwingDuck> help:/kubuntu/index/
[10:17] <valorie> do we have different people working on the site, or is it all one team effort?
[10:17] <DarkwingDuck> most of it wasn't updated to reflect 4.5
[10:17] <DarkwingDuck> seperated
[10:17] <DarkwingDuck> I work with system docs.
[10:17] <DarkwingDuck> Hows your XML and DocBook?
[10:18] <valorie> I've not really used it
[10:18] <valorie> but I've done markup
[10:18] <valorie> so I'm sure I can learn what's necessary
[10:18] <valorie> I'm a writer, that's my strength however
[10:18] <DarkwingDuck> *nods* awesome. its always a start. Hows your english editing?
[10:19] <valorie> good to very good
[10:19] <DarkwingDuck> timezone?
[10:19] <valorie> so, you know that userbase is becoming a landing place for docs
[10:20] <valorie> right?
[10:20] <valorie> Pacific time
[10:20] <valorie> I live south of Seattle, Washington USA
[10:20] <valorie> you?
[10:20] <DarkwingDuck> San Diego
[10:20] <valorie> for instance, our Amarok Handbook is being created on Userbase
[10:21] <valorie> then being translated, and finally being put into Docbook
[10:21] <valorie> I believe they want to become the preferred work method
[10:21] <DarkwingDuck> hmmm.
[10:22] <valorie> in that way, docs are available on the web and in the apps
[10:22] <valorie> identically
[10:22] <valorie> mostly
[10:22] <DarkwingDuck> *nods*
[10:22] <valorie> that doesn't necessarily help with Kubuntu-specific stuff
[10:23] <valorie> but how much of that do we have?
[10:23] <DarkwingDuck> :) We dont go too far into apps
[10:23] <DarkwingDuck> mostly sys docs
[10:23] <valorie> ok, so KDE does the apps
[10:23] <DarkwingDuck> yes
[10:23] <valorie> and we (on the sites) focus on use
[10:23] <DarkwingDuck> and within the khelpcenter
[10:24] <valorie> k, I'm just trying to scout around and figure out how everything is organized
[10:24] <valorie> khelpcenter is within the apps, correct?
[10:25] <DarkwingDuck> Im slowly organizing everything
[10:25] <DarkwingDuck> Alt F2 > help
[10:25] <DarkwingDuck> Everything under Kubuntu Documentation
[10:25] <DarkwingDuck> we hold everything in a BZR branch
[10:26] <DarkwingDuck> lp:kubuntu-docs
[10:26] <valorie> I understand I'm going to have to learn some BZR
[10:26] <valorie> ::sigh::
[10:26] <valorie> lol
[10:26] <DarkwingDuck> a bit :)
[10:26] <valorie> hoping my small git experience helps, instead of confuses
[10:27] <DarkwingDuck> i was svn n picked up bzr in an hour
[10:27] <DarkwingDuck> myself, jjesse and nixternal have commit access
[10:28] <apachelogger> +</style>
[10:28] <apachelogger> +
Really in need of a UI wizard! =P
</string>
[10:28] <apachelogger> srsly
[10:28]  * DarkwingDuck thwaps apachelogger
[10:28] <apachelogger> why does the ubuntu font come after you and eat your puppies
[10:28] <DarkwingDuck> lol
[10:28]  * apachelogger is pissed and switches to bad music
[10:28] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: you at uds?
[10:28] <DarkwingDuck> will you rather
[10:29] <apachelogger> I shall annoy everyone at uds so hard that they will pay me to join opensuse, for opensuse does not have a stupid font that creeps up in your ui files
[10:29] <valorie> that is some horrible html "styling" apachelogger
[10:29] <apachelogger> how is ubuntu a font family anyway
[10:29] <apachelogger> ...
[10:30] <apachelogger> valorie: tell that to Qt
[10:30] <DarkwingDuck> valorie: nixternal stepped down, jjesse will be limited in helping he said so i kinda inharited everything... glad i have more help
[10:30] <apachelogger> why people use qt designer is a mystery to me
[10:30] <valorie> sec
[10:30] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: dont hold back... tell us what you really think
[10:30] <apachelogger> especially if they evidently have no idea of what is going on under the hood - hence the missing layouts in the pam-face-authentication stuff
[10:30]  * apachelogger takes his keyboard and throws it after uninformed programmers
[10:31] <DarkwingDuck> :D
[10:32] <DarkwingDuck> And, i have class in the morning. goodnight. valorie, looking forward to working with you.
[10:32] <apachelogger> nini DarkwingDuck
[10:32] <apachelogger> oh
[10:32] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: you will be at uds?
[10:32] <apachelogger> that reminds me, I have algorithms magic in like 30 minutes
[10:32] <apachelogger> oh dear oh dear
[10:32] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: yes
[10:32] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: see you there
[10:33] <valorie> nixternal stepped down?
[10:33] <valorie> sad
[10:33] <DarkwingDuck> aye, he taught me most of what i know
[10:34] <valorie> but he'll be around enough to ask questions of?
[10:34] <valorie> I'm not afraid to ask and appear stupid
[10:34] <valorie> since sometimes I am
[10:34] <valorie> lol
[10:34] <DarkwingDuck> I have his number. but ive been doing a couple years now :)
[10:35] <valorie> OK, well at UDS, I guess we will have a chance to do a review of what needs doing
[10:35] <valorie> prioritize, etc.
[10:35] <valorie> seems like maybe we need to recruit a few more people?
[10:35] <DarkwingDuck> thats part of the plan
[10:37] <apachelogger> brrr
[10:37]  * apachelogger is looking forward to florida temperatures
[10:38] <apachelogger> flipping cold here
[10:39] <valorie> getting cold here too
[10:39] <valorie> was sunny, but brrrr
[10:41] <valorie> well folks, I'm running out of steam
[10:41] <valorie> niters
[11:09] <Mamarok> pavucontrol lacks icons when installed in Kubuntu. Does that mean I have to install Gnome icons as well?
[11:17] <davmor2> Mamarok: Some items won't show up until a reboot has been performed,  Failing that try running it from the CLI or from Alt-F2 to see if it has been install correctly
[11:20] <debfx> I wonder why qtcreator fails to build on arm with: libqtwebkit-dev : Depends: libqtwebkit4 (= 2.0.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
[11:24] <Mamarok> a reboot? You are kidding, this is linux after all
[11:24] <Mamarok> I did start it from krunner
[11:31] <al> debfx: maybe because qt4-dev-tools and libqtwebkit-dev depend on conflicting versions of libqtwebkit4?
[11:32] <al> (just guessing)
[11:32] <debfx> al: no, qt4-dev-tools : Depends: libqtwebkit4 (>= 2.0~week31)
[12:29] <apachelogger> meh
[12:29] <apachelogger> that pam-face-authentication gui is in need of design
[12:30] <apachelogger> ...and I dont mean the artworky design
[12:31] <apachelogger> also their wizard is made out of annoyance
[12:47] <jussi> apachelogger: let me know when you are done..
[12:47] <jussi> apachelogger: oh and btw, where is my memenu!! ? :F
[12:47] <apachelogger> youmenu
[12:47] <apachelogger> oh
[12:47] <apachelogger> they are discussion wemenu I heared ^^
[12:48] <apachelogger> that is like the nearby-foo plasmoid just more integrated
[12:48] <apachelogger> and called menu
[12:49] <jussi> hehe
[12:50] <jussi> ok, lets hope its cool
[12:54] <apachelogger> jussi: certainly not as cool as leaning over to my cam to get apt-get kicking ^^
[12:58] <jussi> apachelogger: true
[13:01]  * apachelogger is a terrible bug reporter
[13:49] <CIA-116> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1187144 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/worker/worker.cpp Speed up the construction of the main Worker class by one blank QVariantMap construction. We always initialize it before use, so we don't need to construct it in the class initializer.
[14:39] <apachelogger> inkscape is broken \o/
[14:39] <apachelogger> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'Gtk::IconThemeError'
[14:39] <apachelogger> theme errors are certainly most fatal
[15:33] <ximion_> apachelogger: see bug #651678 - very annoying
[17:23] <apachelogger> http://www.moby.com/journal/2010-10-17/heres-where-i-spend-my-days-it-looks-nas.html
[17:23] <apachelogger> ehehehe
[17:24] <shadeslayer> kewl site btw
[17:24] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: im not getting a new phone ... infact .. i dont have a phone now :'(
[17:25] <shadeslayer> time to run to knut i suppose :P
[17:26] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: coming to the pizza+movie thing?
[17:27] <apachelogger> what pizza+movie thing?
[17:27] <debfx> knut the polar bear?
[17:27] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/242/detail/
[17:27] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: also about phones, thiago surely could get some n900 :P
[17:28] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: we should poke him hard then :P
[17:28] <apachelogger> ohm
[17:28] <apachelogger> ehm
[17:28] <apachelogger> ahm
[17:28] <apachelogger> xls == excel, no?
[17:28] <shadeslayer> yus
[17:28] <shadeslayer> also ... pdf ..
[17:29] <apachelogger> well, nothing wrong with pdf
[17:29] <apachelogger> but xls
[17:29] <apachelogger> ...
[17:29] <shadeslayer> fdf!!!
[17:29] <shadeslayer> debfx: knut.. the awesome guy who gives away N900's :P
[17:29]  * apachelogger should drop one of those "please do not send me office files" replies just of the lolz of it
[17:29] <shadeslayer> heh...
[17:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: he is also awesome for other reasons :P
[17:30] <apachelogger> like dancing the electonic boogie
[17:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yes, but giving away N900's tops the list
[17:30] <apachelogger> nah, electro boogie does :P
[17:30] <shadeslayer> never seen him dance :)
[17:30] <apachelogger> ask the youtubez
[17:31] <shadeslayer> too many polar bear results :P
[17:31] <shadeslayer> oh wait
[17:31] <shadeslayer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzXtRtH8OBI
[17:32] <shadeslayer> i think i saw that on CNN sometime ago
[17:32] <debfx> how can I convince bzr-buildpackage to build my uncommitted package? :(
[17:33] <shadeslayer> debfx: erm.. you can commit and then uncommit if theres a issue, as long as you dont bzr push
[17:33] <apachelogger> by impl0ment0ring the true idea of bzr driven development
[17:33] <apachelogger> branch branch branch
[17:34] <debfx> shadeslayer: I could but I don't want to
[17:34] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ok.. i agree, electronic boogie tops the list
[17:34] <apachelogger> *nod*
[17:34] <apachelogger> so
[17:34] <apachelogger> about the pizza movie and free love thing
[17:34] <shadeslayer> hmm
[17:35] <apachelogger> from a community building POV we should attend, of course I would rather have the whole kubuntu crew attend, so we probably should consider this at large
[17:35] <apachelogger> also, I think monday is the day valorie and I are going to the MGMT gig :P
[17:35] <shadeslayer> MGMT ?
[17:35] <apachelogger> youtubez
[17:35] <shadeslayer> ooohh rock
[17:36] <apachelogger> youtubez is the new lord google
[17:36] <apachelogger> disturbing video take 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe4EK4HSPkI&ob=av2n ^^
[17:37] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: This video contains content from Vevo, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.  << lulz
[17:37] <apachelogger> haha
[17:37] <apachelogger> clearly too disturbing for india
[17:37]  * apachelogger wished the same for austria
[17:37] <apachelogger> it is is sorta like amnesia - the dark decent as a music video
[17:37] <apachelogger> that said
[17:37] <apachelogger> I still did not finish amnesia
[17:38]  * apachelogger can only play like 30 minutes at a time before running danger of passing out
[17:39] <shadeslayer> comments on bug 565376 welcome
[17:39] <apachelogger> desktopcouch
[17:39] <apachelogger> surely that thing still does not support kwallet :P
[17:39] <shadeslayer> yes ..
[17:39] <shadeslayer> dont think so :P
[17:39] <apachelogger> also I am not entirely sure I patched it to
[17:39] <sheytan_> Quintasan hey dude. What about the PN logo. Do you want it still? :D
[17:40]  * apachelogger points sheytan_ towards a presentation template :P
[17:40] <shadeslayer> sheytan_: id say yes :)
[17:40] <apachelogger> that said
[17:40] <apachelogger> what do you people think about porting the you bun too one to kubuntu blue&logo?
[17:40]  * sheytan_ is proud to announce that the Join Us page is now complete redesigned and waits for development :D
[17:41] <sheytan_> apachelogger is there a how to to create that template?
[17:41] <sheytan_> i mean, how do i put stuff to one file
[17:41] <apachelogger> via the master slide
[17:41] <shadeslayer> hmm... i should one of my pending assignments ...
[17:41] <apachelogger> sheytan_: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/talks/Ubuntu%20in%2050%20minutes.odp if you can make me such a background I can put together the template
[17:42]  * apachelogger is not entirely sure if the style fits kubuntu though....
[17:45] <apachelogger> oggy oggy oggy!
[17:46] <shadeslayer> hmm... for some reason i dont have pinentry update
[17:46] <shadeslayer> and im on the main mirror
[17:46] <shadeslayer> Published 18 hours ago ... -.-
[17:46] <apachelogger> oh oh oh
[17:47] <apachelogger> W: pam-face-authentication: non-standard-dir-in-usr usr/kde/
[17:47] <apachelogger> W: pam-face-authentication: file-in-unusual-dir usr/kde/4/bin/xwindowFaceAuth
[17:47] <apachelogger> E: pam-face-authentication: file-directly-in-usr-share usr/share/haarcascade.xml
[17:47] <apachelogger> E: pam-face-authentication: file-directly-in-usr-share usr/share/haarcascade_eye.xml
[17:47] <apachelogger> E: pam-face-authentication: file-directly-in-usr-share usr/share/haarcascade_eye_tree_eyeglasses.xml
[17:47] <apachelogger> E: pam-face-authentication: file-directly-in-usr-share usr/share/haarcascade_nose.xml
[17:47] <apachelogger> at times I wonder
[17:47] <apachelogger> I REALLY DO
[17:47] <apachelogger> do developers actually think before doing thing
[17:47] <apachelogger> s
[17:49] <nixternal> apachelogger: haha, knut is god!
[17:49] <apachelogger> fullack
[17:56] <sheytan_> apachelogger http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6811/basej.jpg
[17:58] <apachelogger> sheytan: png would be better?
[17:59] <sheytan> apachelogger this is only a demo :D
[17:59] <sheytan> sure, just a sec :D
[17:59] <apachelogger> oh
[17:59] <apachelogger> me likes the demo
[18:00] <apachelogger> sheytan: need a different dimension too
[18:01] <apachelogger> something like 11 inch to 8 inch
[18:02] <sheytan> apachelogger give me few minutes, todo list is endless :D
[18:02] <ScottK> shadeslayer: What release are you running?
[18:02] <shadeslayer> ScottK: maverick!
[18:03] <apachelogger> 11.02" by 8.27"
[18:03] <ScottK> Not published then.
[18:03] <ScottK> It needs review by the SRU team.
[18:03] <apachelogger> sheytan: ^
[18:03] <ScottK> shadeslayer: If you can't wait, it's in my PPA.
[18:04] <shadeslayer> ScottK: nah.. i have a local deb here ... but what i dont understand is... if its published, is it stuck in SRU queue?
[18:04] <shadeslayer> or rather the upload queue
[18:04] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Not stuck.  Waiting for review.
[18:04] <shadeslayer> ohk
[18:04] <ScottK> A member of ubuntu-sru reviews the diff for every SRU before approving it.
[18:07] <shadeslayer> i thought you just upload it in proposed and your done :)
[18:07] <sheytan> apachelogger 300ppi?
[18:08] <apachelogger> what are ppi?
[18:08] <sheytan> apachelogger pixels per inch ;)
[18:09]  * apachelogger only knows dpi
[18:09] <apachelogger> and there I would go for 600+
[18:09] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot71.png
[18:10] <sheytan> apachelogger dpi is the same as ppi i thin k
[18:11] <sheytan> apachelogger: from wiki " Some digital file formats record a DPI value, or more commonly a PPI (pixels per inch) value, which is to be used when printing the image"
[18:12]  * apachelogger only knows DPI
[18:12] <apachelogger> so much for common :P
[18:12] <apachelogger> surely some artist wrote that article
[18:12] <ScottK> shadeslayer: You're done, but the SRU team is not.
[18:12] <shadeslayer> ok
[18:13] <apachelogger> sheytan: btw, I doubt the subtle surface of the header will be visible on most projectors
[18:13] <sheytan> apachelogger yeah, that's why i put there a light gradient ;)
[18:14] <apachelogger> still not sure it would be noticable
[18:14] <apachelogger> most projectors out there are utter crap
[18:14] <sheytan> apachelogger, don't worry :D
[18:19]  * apachelogger is too old to not worry :P
[18:20] <apachelogger> with regards to bug 655646 I am wondering if the indicator plugin will turn on the tray icon if no indicator is around...
[18:26] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: do we think we could just copy moby's site and use it for kubuntu? ^^
[18:26] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure you have to turn it back on yourself.
[18:26] <ScottK> It's not a bug in any case.
[18:26] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: is it GPLv* licensed? :P
[18:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: IMHO it is an upgrade issue
[18:27] <shadeslayer> ScottK: yeah you can turn it on
[18:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: What's the upgrade issue?
[18:27] <apachelogger> upon upgrade we should make sure the indicator is active, and if not add it
[18:27] <apachelogger> ScottK: that now kopete will close on close whereas before it did not and with indicator it does not either
[18:27] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: does dh have a --with qt option?
[18:27] <ScottK> If we're going to take the systray icon away, I agree.
[18:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no, why?
[18:28] <apachelogger> what for?
[18:28] <shadeslayer> just wondering
[18:28] <apachelogger> dh will figure out the build system itself
[18:28] <shadeslayer> and what if the pro file is in src/
[18:28] <apachelogger> the only reason we have with kde is because debian likes to do fancy stuff :P
[18:28] <shadeslayer> and not in top level of source
[18:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: just override auto_dh_configure
[18:28] <apachelogger> or what the target is called
[18:28] <apachelogger> man dh
[18:28] <apachelogger> invoke qmake manually
[18:28] <shadeslayer> right it wont pick that itself right?
[18:29] <apachelogger> also I think you can pass arguments directly to dh
[18:29] <apachelogger> though I think for qmake you need to cd into the dir to make it work, so...
[18:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: dunno, maybe, I wouldnt count on it
[18:30] <ScottK> dpkg-buildpackage -S for boost finishes on my laptop or heat death of the univerise: Which comes first?
[18:30] <shadeslayer> ScottK: id say heat death
[18:30] <shadeslayer> unless you cool it somehow
[18:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: so no to pizza+movie thing?
[18:30] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Heat death of the Universe is something different.
[18:31] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: depends on a) whether valorie is getting MGMT tickets and b) whether the rest of the crew is interested
[18:31] <shadeslayer> hmm
[18:31] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ask rest of the crew then?
[18:32] <apachelogger> aye
[18:32] <sheytan> apachelogger http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3365/base2x.jpg
[18:33] <shadeslayer> what are those ugly splotches
[18:34] <shadeslayer> looks like ubuntu's just-before-release-wallpaper-fiasco
[18:35] <sheytan> shadeslayer these are extra for those who don't like them :D
[18:35] <sheytan> i knew someone will not :D
[18:35] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot72.png
[18:35] <neversfelde> sheytan: hi, you are working on our website?
[18:36] <apachelogger> sheytan: now I wonder if the background gear would be visible on bad projectors :)
[18:36] <sheytan> neversfelde yep, but the main dev is some kind of busy  and thhe development stops now. but we already have some work done :)
[18:36] <shadeslayer> ok cya guys
[18:36] <sheytan> apachelogger it should, but if not, they'll think there's nothing there :D
[18:36] <apachelogger> which is also bad :P
[18:37] <apachelogger> hence I think the canonical design team added the dots
[18:37] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: you were talking about data loss in rekonq yesterday, what happened?
[18:37] <sheytan> apachelogger well, not that bad :D
[18:37] <neversfelde> sheytan: all links for local language support are broken
[18:37] <apachelogger> though IMHO the dots disturb
[18:37] <neversfelde> http://www.kubuntu.org/community
[18:37] <apachelogger> sheytan: well, not awesome either ;)
[18:37] <shadeslayer> splotches! theyre called splotches! :>
[18:37] <neversfelde> sheytan: I cannot report a bug, because I have no access to launchpad
[18:37] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: it did the crashy
[18:37] <shadeslayer> did it not ask to restore stuff?
[18:37] <sheytan> neversfelde i didn't work on the current page. I'm working on a whole new project from top to bottom :)
[18:38] <neversfelde> sheytan: ah ok
[18:38] <neversfelde> we will change the default design again?
[18:38] <sheytan> apachelogger so, should i make he logo more visable/ :D
[18:38] <shadeslayer> i have such a full time table :(
[18:38] <sheytan> neversfelde i think yes
[18:38] <apachelogger> sheytan: no
[18:38] <apachelogger> sheytan: come up with something else :P
[18:38] <apachelogger> dots for example :P
[18:38] <neversfelde> we probably should not do this so often :)
[18:39] <sheytan> apachelogger dots sucks :D
[18:39] <apachelogger> fullack
[18:39]  * apachelogger slaps apachelogger for dotting around
[18:39] <apachelogger> ......
[18:39] <apachelogger> there
[18:39] <apachelogger> muhahaha
[18:39] <apachelogger> :P
[18:39] <sheytan> neversfelde this one isn't that cool, is it? :P Our new will have manuals, videos, lots of information and cool screenshots. See my blog for some shots ;)
[18:39] <neversfelde> sheytan: so I have to talk to ofirk about these links?
[18:39] <sheytan> yes
[18:40] <shadeslayer> bye
[18:40] <neversfelde> sheytan: k, I like our page, but if it is better, I am looking forward :)
[18:40] <apachelogger> sheytan: seriously though, I think we need something... how about an alternative version without the background gear and instead a bottom border thingy (like with the header)
[18:40] <apachelogger> should one deem it necessary one can easily switch and fancy head and bottom certainly make for a good visual balance too
[18:40] <sheytan> apachelogger lets try
[18:41] <sheytan> neversfelde http://madsheytan.blogspot.com/2010/08/nowosci-z-poligonu-strona-domowa.html  http://madsheytan.blogspot.com/2010/09/wiesci-z-prac-nad-strona-kubuntu.html
[18:42]  * apachelogger thinks sheytan really should blog in the english :P
[18:42] <apachelogger> ...I sort of feel forced to learn polish...
[18:43]  * sheytan thinks about new blog in english but learning polish isn't that hard :D Me knows german :D
[18:43] <apachelogger> well, I do not blog in german either, do I :P
[18:43] <apachelogger> the occasional german or french microblog post aside ;)
[18:44] <sheytan> apachelogger i meant when i can learn german you can learn polish :D
[18:44] <apachelogger> sure, but just to read a blog... seems a bit of a strange rationale :P
[18:45] <sheytan> apachelogger you're not limited to the blog :D
[18:46] <apachelogger> right, I could do a talk in front of the UN in polish :D
[18:46] <neversfelde> sheytan: not enough free traffic to view the internet :)
[18:46] <apachelogger> not sure they would let me though
[18:47] <sheytan> apachelogger what's UN? :D
[18:48] <apachelogger> united nations
[18:49] <apachelogger> oh noes
[18:49] <apachelogger> bug 662824
[18:49] <apachelogger> the amarok is the broken
[18:49] <sheytan> doesn't happen to me ;D
[18:49] <sheytan> i mean Works For Me (TM) :D
[18:50] <apachelogger> I dont use it(tm)
[18:50] <apachelogger> banshee ftw o/ o/ o/
[18:50] <sheytan> aahahah :D
[18:50] <sheytan> win :D
[18:50] <sheytan> but well, me doesn't like gtk stuff in a qt environment ;D
[18:50] <sheytan> apachelogger http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7671/base2t.jpg
[18:51] <apachelogger> the best thing about banshee is that it is written in the mo-no, which in turn is to-slo
[18:51] <apachelogger> sheytan: can you please remove the your name here?
[18:51] <apachelogger> sheytan: makes it hard to demo test it ^^
[18:51] <sheytan> apachelogger demo :D, now let me send you png
[18:52]  * sheytan has new idea :D
[18:52] <apachelogger> oh noes
[18:52] <apachelogger> ...those creative people...
[18:52] <neversfelde> rofl
[18:52]  * apachelogger skansk with neversfelde meanwhile since Nightrose is MIA
[18:53] <apachelogger> also that typo is free as in free beer
[18:53] <apachelogger> feel free to keep it
[18:54]  * neversfelde hides
[18:54] <neversfelde> and is in panic
[18:54] <sheytan> apachelogger 4Gigs of ram isn't enough for me when i'm gimping ;D
[18:55] <apachelogger> hm
[18:55] <apachelogger> gimping
[18:55] <apachelogger> that sounds dirty
[18:55]  * apachelogger better leaves
[18:56] <shadeslayer> ok ... im back
[18:56] <shadeslayer> no paper to write my assignment on -.-
[18:56] <sheytan> shadeslayer had bad dreams that he didn't done some stuff :D
[18:56] <shadeslayer> sheytan: heh... the last thing i care about are these assignments :P
[18:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: lets make a browser for meego
[18:57] <shadeslayer> webkity browser
[18:57]  * apachelogger has a fear of falling off chairs, hence he preferrs sitting on benches
[18:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I am certain there already is one :P
[18:57] <shadeslayer> :O
[18:57] <shadeslayer> where!
[18:57] <apachelogger> also I am now phonon co-maintainer as per order of markey
[18:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: part of standard distribution?
[18:58] <apachelogger> almost certainly nokia will not deploy an intartubes enabled device without browser, so there is bound to be one, or at least be one in production
[18:58] <markey> apachelogger is now a lieutenant of Phonon :)
[19:02] <apachelogger> uhh, that is a fancy title \o/
[19:02] <apachelogger> good news everyone
[19:02] <apachelogger> I am going out to get wasted :P
[19:02] <sheytan> apachelogger http://www.sendspace.com/file/fd5zdt
[19:02] <apachelogger> one must celebrate a promotion properly
[19:03] <neversfelde> apachelogger: ok, so why does my laptop stop playing sound,  when I am not moving the cursor :)
[19:03] <apachelogger> likely pulseaudio/audio driver problem
[19:04] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I removed pulseaudio, same problem, but I did a lot of testing with this system, probably it is time to reinstall it
[19:04] <neversfelde> so, at least I would do so, if I every will be connected to the internet again
[19:06]  * sheytan wonders if the upgrade to 11.04 will be the same smooth as to 10.10 :D
[19:07]  * apachelogger shall make sure that it is not
[19:07] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot73.png
[19:08] <apachelogger> sheytan: I think that looks pretty decent
[19:08] <apachelogger> sheytan: could you also send me a png of the backgrounded version?
[19:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: You going out to get wasted isn't news.  News is when something unusual happens.
[19:08] <apachelogger> neversfelde: well, it still can be a problem with the alsa driver
[19:09] <sheytan> apachelogger what backgrounded you mean, with the logo but without footer?
[19:09] <apachelogger> aye
[19:09] <sheytan> sure
[19:09] <apachelogger> sheytan: no rush though
[19:09]  * apachelogger is leaving now
[19:10] <sheytan> apachelogger it's few clicks away ;)
[19:10] <apachelogger> ScottK: I see :P
[19:10] <neversfelde> apachelogger: sure, it works with Lucid kernel, but I did not have enough time to have a closer look
[19:24] <sheytan> apachelogger http://www.sendspace.com/file/rqoir8
[19:28] <shadeslayer> nooo
[19:28] <shadeslayer> hmm
[19:28] <shadeslayer> i cant remove qtwebkit :|
[19:28] <shadeslayer> wth
[19:30] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: we must supply nightly webkit packages as well.. or is that covered under nightly qt?
[19:31] <sheytan> shadeslayer is tehre a plan to build kde trunk in next few days for neon?
[19:31] <shadeslayer> its already built
[19:31] <shadeslayer> we just need to fiddle out the details and some minor packaging details
[19:32] <shadeslayer> all the major stuff is done anyways
[19:32] <Lex79> debfx: are you planning to do kdebase and edu merges?
[19:32] <sheytan> shadeslayer me wish the ppa :D
[19:32] <shadeslayer> sheytan: launchpad.net/~neon
[19:32] <shadeslayer> see the ppa  ;)
[19:32] <debfx> Lex79: yes, i'll push kdebase in a minute
[19:32] <Lex79> ok thanks
[19:35] <shadeslayer> no qtwebkit nightly builds
[19:35] <shadeslayer> :|
[19:37] <shadeslayer> atleast they have a code import on lp \o/
[19:39] <shadeslayer> Lex79: is webkit on in qt4-X11 or as a seprate package?
[19:41] <Lex79> shadeslayer: in a separate package, qtwebkit-source package
[19:41] <shadeslayer> ah i was looking in the right place then
[19:42] <shadeslayer> ah that package is a transitional package
[19:42] <shadeslayer> libqt4-webkit: transitional package for Qt 4 WebKit module
[19:43] <Lex79> yeah
[19:45] <shadeslayer> why is this :         rm -f imports/QtWebKit/libqmlwebkitplugin.so JavaScriptCore/release/libjscore.a
[19:45] <shadeslayer> thats a clean rule
[19:45] <shadeslayer> hmm... suppose it cant hurt for a nightly package ....
[19:51] <shadeslayer> i think i might have to kill lp
[19:52] <ScottK> Get in line.
[19:53] <shadeslayer> theres a line? i thought everyone is so bloodthirsty we just stab it all together
[19:53] <ScottK> It's more fun to draw it out.
[19:54] <shadeslayer> ah
[19:54] <al> also it's been open sourced, so patches welco&"#!§NO CARRIER
[19:54] <shadeslayer> al: theres no patch for lp timing out :P
[19:54] <al> i'm afraid if you'd track it down there even might be ;)
[19:55] <ScottK> al: It's open source, but not really free software IMO.
[19:55] <Riddell> other way around
[19:56] <ScottK> I don't consider AGPL as truly free since it forces distribution.
[19:57] <al> regardless of license and policy - nothing with that installation procedure should ever qualify as "free"
[19:57] <ScottK> So I'm only "free" to modify and use code after I set up an distribution mechanism for it.
[19:57] <ScottK> That too.
[19:58] <ScottK> I understand it's getting easier.
[19:58] <al> you can keep your dns zone now? :>
[19:59] <al> ok, i even get the part with the internal host names…
[19:59] <ScottK> No idea.  I just heard that.
[20:00] <ScottK> Anyone packaging kdepim 4.4.7 when it gets rolled later this week?
[20:03] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ill do it probably
[20:03] <shadeslayer> as well as kdevelop .. but that has to wait till tomorrow
[20:03] <ScottK> shadeslayer: OK.  Good.  I wanted t make sure someone was queued up to look at it.
[20:03] <shadeslayer> ok
[20:04] <shadeslayer> hmmm... i caught build queue at a good moment.. its empty right noq
[20:04] <shadeslayer> we need more builders, amd should sponsor some :P
[20:04] <shadeslayer> or intel
[20:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ok so i poked around, meego only has chromium and fenneck
[20:06] <shadeslayer> fennec
[20:06] <shadeslayer> uhhh
[20:07] <shadeslayer> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/builders/samarium
[20:07] <shadeslayer> why does it say ~kubuntu-members/qtwebkit/trunk ..
[20:07] <shadeslayer> .... possibly because webkit is under ~kubuntu-members
[20:46] <nixternal> I expect a TODO list in my inbox, msg'd to me, or whatever for nutty :p
[20:52] <shadeslayer> nixternal: natty :P
[20:52] <shadeslayer> nutty narwhal ... lol
[20:52]  * shadeslayer puts World Domination at top of TODO
[20:54] <shadeslayer> ->sleep
[21:24] <rbelem> I got the visa! \o/
[21:25] <jussi> congrats rbelem!!
[21:25] <rbelem> :-D
[21:26] <rbelem> that was hard!
[21:26] <jussi> peoples, whoever is responsible for this netbook edition....
[21:26] <jussi> should be congratulated! very useable and very very good!!
[21:35] <apachelogger> hullos
[21:36] <jussi> hiya apachelogger!!
[21:36]  * apachelogger sings the pub with no beer
[21:36] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: and fennec is no good?
[21:36] <jussi> btw, anyone know a way I can put something in the netbook panel for quick acess to the menu/desktop area - show desktop doeesnt help...
[21:37] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: http://maemo.nokia.com/features/maemo-browser/
[21:37] <apachelogger> jussi: isnt there an activity bar already?
[21:38] <jussi> apachelogger: activity bar?
[21:38] <apachelogger> well the thing where you ahve search&launch and page1
[21:39] <jussi> lol...duh! thanks
[21:39] <jussi> hehe
[21:52] <apachelogger> sheytan: maybe a title page background would also be useful?
[21:52] <sheytan> apachelogger sure, give me few minutes ;)
[21:58] <ScottK> jussi: I passed that on to the main plasma-netbook developer.  Agateau gets credit for the app menu stuff.
[21:58] <ScottK> That helps a lot.
[21:59] <jussi> ScottK: excellent!
[22:00] <jussi> ScottK: I do have one little complaint, when clicking on the activity bar, it changes straight away, so I have to click again to get back from page one - I just want it to show me search and launch...
[22:01] <ScottK> Then click on that part of the activity bar, right?
[22:01] <ScottK> I usually click on the app control widget in the panel to get present windows and click on the one I want.
[22:03] <jussi> yes, I click on the search and launch and it slides over to the page one...
[22:03] <jussi> although it doesnt happen everytime... its a bit strange
[22:04] <sheytan> apachelogger ready? :D
[22:04] <apachelogger> Always ^^
[22:05]  * ScottK doesn't ask "for what".
[22:05] <sheytan> ScottK Don't ask :D
[22:05]  * apachelogger thinks that is a good idea
[22:08] <sheytan> apachelogger http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/338/startpage.jpg
[22:08] <apachelogger> fancy
[22:08]  * apachelogger tries
[22:09] <apachelogger> sheytan: do you think one should place font on that?
[22:09] <sheytan> apachelogger on what?
[22:09] <apachelogger> on the background ^^
[22:09] <sheytan> Yeah, why not
[22:09] <apachelogger> sheytan: what color would you use for that?
[22:09]  * apachelogger thinks something greyish maybe
[22:10] <sheytan> white, only white here :D
[22:10] <sheytan> gray + blue != goodness :D
[22:10] <sheytan> i mean, not in this case :D
[22:14] <apachelogger> hm
[22:14] <apachelogger> not suited for large amounts of text
[22:14] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot74.png
[22:16] <apachelogger> sheytan: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot75.png
[22:16] <apachelogger> I do not think text fits there at all
[22:16] <apachelogger> sheytan: maybe removing the gear would help?
[22:17] <sheytan> apachelogger first you shouldn't put that much text into a presentation. And if you have to, like in this case you quote someone, use smaller font :)
[22:17] <sheytan> And i'll try  to remove the gear
[22:17] <apachelogger> people *will* use loads of text :P
[22:17] <apachelogger> they always do
[22:18] <sheytan> apachelogger they shouldn't
[22:18] <sheytan> if you put the same thing you will say into a presentation, it is useless
[22:18] <apachelogger> they also shouldn't use deprecated software, yet there are quite a few of them using gnome...
[22:19] <sheytan> anyway, make the font smaller :D
[22:20] <apachelogger> well, it wouldn't help the issue of the gear disturbing :P
[22:21] <sheytan> apachelogger this one will http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/338/startpage.jpg
[22:23] <apachelogger> better
[22:23] <apachelogger> though
[22:23]  * apachelogger still doesnt quite like how it looks
[22:23] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/avatar/snapshot76.png
[22:24] <sheytan> apachelogger why not? :P
[22:24] <apachelogger> not sure
[22:24] <apachelogger> it just looks a bit odd IMHO
[22:24] <apachelogger> then again I am not much of  fan of start pages anyway
[22:25]  * apachelogger would just use the first startpage background as empty page that is on before the talk actually begins, just looking nice, but not having any use
[22:26] <sheytan> apachelogger i can add stuff there, but simple looks better imho
[22:26] <sheytan> it's not a wallpaper :D
[22:26] <apachelogger> yeah
[22:26] <apachelogger> sheytan: just leave it, can you get me a png of both versions?
[22:26] <sheytan> sure
[22:26] <apachelogger> I think then the template is pretty much done :D
[22:27] <sheytan> apachelogger will this be the kubuntu default one? :D
[22:27] <apachelogger> I shall hope so
[22:28] <sheytan> Cool :D
[22:28] <sheytan> Btw, any plans to put libre office instead of open office?
[22:28] <sheytan> to 11.04
[22:29] <apachelogger> that is up to ubuntu
[22:30] <sheytan> they will replace it
[22:30] <sheytan> apachelogger if you decide, use that one without a gear :D
[22:31] <apachelogger> we will just provide both ;)
[22:31] <apachelogger> recommend the one without gear for pages with text, and the one with for text-less use
[22:32] <sheytan> sounds good
[22:33] <apachelogger> file:///home/me/Kubuntu.pdf
[22:33] <apachelogger> ehm
[22:33] <apachelogger> http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/Timelord/Kubuntu.pdf
[22:35] <sheytan> apachelogger http://www.sendspace.com/file/7h9qyi
[22:37] <sheytan> apachelogger http://www.sendspace.com/file/j5yevp
[22:38] <sheytan> brb
[22:38] <apachelogger> sheytan: thanks
[22:43] <sheytan> apachelogger share the template when you make it ;D
[22:43] <sheytan> and you're welcome ;)
[22:44] <apachelogger> opinions on the example pdf?
[22:46] <sheytan> apachelogger for pdf, the top and bottom parts should be 2 different files.
[22:46] <sheytan> but, well, looks nice :D
[22:47] <apachelogger> yeah, just showcasing all options
[22:48] <sheytan> looks good :D
[23:05] <sheytan> kI'm kGoing kTo kSleep. kBy kGuys :D
[23:09] <apachelogger> hm
[23:09] <apachelogger> maybe I should have compressed them pngs, the otp is 11 MiB ^^
[23:15] <apachelogger> oh
[23:15] <apachelogger> the png is rather largely exported
[23:18] <apachelogger> anyone still around?
[23:26] <apachelogger> well, then I shall go to bed ^^
[23:26] <apachelogger> o/
[23:42] <Sput> I'm still here, apachelogger!


[12:09] <JRodDynamite> Hey, I'm pretty new to this. I have a server with an existing cloud-init cfg in it and was trying to understand it. There are some modules that are configured and I wanted to understand where the underlying source code for it resides. Eg: in `cloud_init_modules` I have `update_hostname`. I wish to understand how that updates the machines hostname.
[12:10] <minimal> JRodDynamite: look in cloudinit/config/cc_update_hostname.py
[12:13] <JRodDynamite> minimal: How can I find it's absolute path?
[12:14] <JRodDynamite> minimal: Never mind I found it. Thanks!
[13:55] <paride> Slightly OT: I'm preparing a new upstream snapshot of simplestreams
[13:55] <paride> the main reason is releasing a fix for: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/simplestreams/+bug/1908452
[13:56] <paride> (which will likely need a SRU at least to Focal)
[13:57] <paride> Here is the MP against ubuntu/devel https://code.launchpad.net/~paride/simplestreams/+git/simplestreams/+merge/402896
[14:00] <paride> blackboxsw ^^
[14:05] <paride> As always I'm a bit confused by how we maintain the packaging :-) But hopefully I got used to it
[14:56] <otubo> Hey guys, I have a quick question about python-jsonschema on cloud-init.
[14:56] <otubo> I'm reading through cloudinit/config/schema.py and there's a try-except on line 88 for when the package is not installed.
[14:58] <otubo> How much harm it is to remove python-jsonschema from the dependency list? On RHEL (CentOS 9, Fedora) we're removing some unwanted packages, and python-jsonschema needs pyrsistent that needs a whole chain of stuff.
[14:58] <otubo> Is it ok to remove it? Or we're gonna loose too much functionality in there?
[15:00] <otubo> perhaps smoser or Odd_Bloke can have an idea on this
[15:09] <smoser> i'll leave it to Odd_Bloke to comment. xenial (16.04) does not have it. i think that the fallout would be only present on bad-input .
[15:10] <smoser> jsonschema is going to give better errors telling what is wrong with data.
[15:11] <smoser> blackboxsw did a lot of the jsonschema work.
[15:13] <otubo> smoser: well if someone files a bug for those distros, who's gonna read the logs would be me, so... I'm ok with that :D
[15:24] <smoser> well... yeah, but wouldn't it be nice if instead of having an incomprehensible log message , the user saw something like:
[15:24] <smoser> cloudinit.config.schema.SchemaValidationError: Cloud config schema errors: write_files.0: 'path' is a required property, write_files.0.append: 'false' is not of type 'boolean'
[15:24] <smoser> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hHCn8y7PmG/ <-- from that.
[15:26] <smoser> but i fully understand the pain of dependencies.
[15:40] <otubo> smoser: the problem with the dependencies at the moment is: If your package needs it, you own it.
[15:41] <otubo> smoser: so there's a bunch os cloud-init dependencies that no one else needs, so I have to maintain it as well.
[15:42] <otubo> smoser: right now I have 6 python packages on my list. One less would be wonderful :-D
[15:43] <paride> smoser, any change you can review/sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~paride/simplestreams/+git/simplestreams/+merge/402896 ?
[15:43] <paride> *chance
[15:43] <otubo> smoser: and it's not gonna be one less, if I can't remove pyrsistent from jsonschema, that's gonna be mine too.
[15:43] <otubo> Anyway. I'm leavcing for today. My bot will listen for the input of others on this matter. Thanks again!
[16:02] <blackboxsw> hi otubo: jsonschema is an optional dependency in cloud-init because it still only has coverage for a fraction of the cloudint.config modules and we didn't get a chance last cycle to spend any time getting  that jsonschema coverage complete.
[16:03] <blackboxsw> otubo: We probably won't make it a strict mandatory dependency because of other distros that may not have it available. If we plan on making that dependency strict, we'll email cloud-init mailinglist before hand. I expect that won't happen for a year.
[16:05]  * blackboxsw otubo: without JSONSchema cloud-init the only "loss" from a distro perspective would be that /var/log/cloud-init.log would be unable to provide a specific error messages about invalid lines/keys/values in userdata.
[16:05] <blackboxsw> so, not critical feature, but nice to have to aid in triage
[16:14] <smoser> paride: it looks like you need jamespage or powersj to ACK that. i'll comment that it LGTM.
[16:16] <powersj> done
[16:24] <smoser> blackboxsw: unable to provide specific error message, and subsequent seemingly arbitrary failures as a result.
[16:24] <smoser> like tracebacks with KeyError or TypeError or some such due to attempted use and assumption that data is valid.
[16:25] <smoser> jsonschema allows you to check once and then assume valid.
[16:30] <blackboxsw> smoser: correct, and more clear. otubo: the lack of jsonschema errors means that your distro will get hard-to-triage failures in config modules as well as potentially silent successes on userdata keys/values with typos or invalid types that may get silently ignored by various config modules.
[16:30] <blackboxsw> ... and here we are again at a stale community status meeting. Let's get this back on track and kick one off for today
[16:32] <blackboxsw> #startmeeting cloud-init bi-weekly office-hours
[16:32] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:32:21 UTC.  The chair is blackboxsw.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:32] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:32] <paride> smoser, thanks, merged!
[16:33] <paride> but as it's not in the server packageset I'll need sponsorship for the upload...
[16:33] <blackboxsw> community-notice: Let's get back to a more regularly scheduled cloud-init office hours. Every two weeks, feel free to watch the channel topic for the next scheduled time. We'll ensure to have a couple of sets of eyes on this IRC  channel.
[16:35] <blackboxsw> Next office-hours meeting is set for June 1, 17:15 UTC. It is worth us having this recurring meeting to give anyone a chance to drive-by #cloud-init if they have questions, discussions, bugs or PRs that need attention.
[16:36] <blackboxsw> Prior to the office hours, we will continue to generate a post with the latest commits to land in cloud-init:master as well as any notable features in progress https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/cloud-init-status-05-18-2021/22349
[16:41] <blackboxsw> From upstream standpoint,  we were able to cut the time-based release 21.2 on May 6th. And for Ubuntu, we have queued the StableReleaseUpdate (SRU) for 21.2 into Bionic, Focal and Hirsute for which falcojr and Odd_Bloke have been going through verification.
[16:41] <blackboxsw> Think we need to update the topic for the 21.2 upstream release too.
[16:42] <smoser> paride: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/y3N7wjCG3n/
[16:44] <smoser> fudge.
[16:44] <smoser> but i just noticed your changelog didn't have LP: #1908452
[16:45] <smoser> because the commit message said 'Fixes LP:1908452' rather than just 'LP: #1908452'
[16:46] <blackboxsw> 'Fixes LP:1908452'  almost github; almost LP :/
[16:48] <paride> smoser, argh :/ will update the bug status manually
[16:48] <paride> thanks for the upload
[16:50]  * blackboxsw falcojr: do we have a trello board for the SRU 21.2 created?
[16:50] <falcojr> yep, https://trello.com/b/tBP3Jrwp/sru-cloud-init-212 (just made it public)
[16:51] <blackboxsw> Thanks a lot
[16:55] <blackboxsw> Great, I was originally looking at the older trello board for the 21.1. Ok, so I'll grab Softlayer testing as you mentioned at standup today. If you want me to run through other clouds just let me know or hit me up for reviews.
[17:26] <blackboxsw> Alright, I think that about wraps today's office hours. Next round in two weeks. Thanks for tuning in.
[17:26] <blackboxsw> #endmeeting
[17:26] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 17:26:17 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/cloud-init/2021/cloud-init.2021-05-18-16.32.moin.txt


[20:33] <locodir-user> hi guys
[20:34] <locodir-user> im rodel from the ph, an ubuntu ser for 5 days now.


[03:03]  * larsks figured out dependent merge requests in launchpad
[03:03] <larsks> Yay!
[03:11] <larsks> I don't know what to do with the error from launchpad:
[03:11] <larsks> Launchpad encountered an internal error during the following operation: emailing a reviewer requesting a review.  It was logged with id OOPS-fa154f4726bb5e94f22e09b5ea7fd2e0.  Sorry for the inconvenience.


[19:39] <bcurtiswx> maco, what neckbeards incident.. ?
[19:46] <maco> bcurtiswx: the rant on omgubuntu where humphrey called the linux a bunch of neckbeards holding linux back
[19:47] <maco> erm, called the linux community...
[19:48] <bcurtiswx> LOL, shows they know nothing..
[19:54] <maco> gay marriage bill in MD passed committe. goes to House floor today
[19:56] <maco> on the accuracy front, i hear they've been improving since now people are feeding them info instead of them trying dig stuff up
[20:26] <bcurtiswx> great for MD, still confused about what's going on in Wisconsin