[00:00] <haz3lnut> Maybe this is a question for a diff channel, but I'll try it out.  If I install 12.04 in a virtualbox, then use remastersys to create a bootable iso, can I take that iso and install it on main physical machine after the bugs are worked out?
[00:02] <haz3lnut> maybe if I uninstall the guest additions first?
[01:12] <trippeh> Can the hud be disabled somehow? I've killed global menu/appmenu so its not doing anything useful.
[01:13] <trippeh> (global menu works so badly on 3840x1200)
[01:13] <Daekdroom> trippeh, you could try changing it shortcut to nothing.
[01:13] <trippeh> Hmmm!
[01:14] <Daekdroom> It's not available in gnome-control-panel, I think. So you have to install ccsm or edit it through gconf.
[01:15] <trippeh> Yeah, figured
[01:19] <trippeh> Yay HUD is gone
[01:20] <trippeh> Too bad, its kinda neat. But appmenu is just too annoying on large screens.
[01:21] <trippeh> Drives me bonkers
[01:22] <trippeh> Needs an "only be global if maximized" option ;-)
[01:23] <Daekdroom> Something on that regard is being planned for 12.10
[03:20] <etfb> Interesting little bug with 12.04 and Emacs - when the window opens, it rolls up like a window shade.  Works fine maximised, so it's no biggie.
[03:20] <etfb> Where is the bug tracker so I can see if it's been reported?
[03:30] <imnichol> I'm looking for a way to remove a library location from rhythmbox in precise.  When I look in gconf-editor, there is no entry for rhythmbox, so I can't remove it that way
[03:43] <Bluefoxicy> what the living
[03:43] <Bluefoxicy> ok
[03:43] <Bluefoxicy> whatever who broke
[03:44] <Bluefoxicy> the altgr on my right alt is now just noormal alt
[03:44] <Bluefoxicy> and my rigth windows key is now just meta
[03:44] <Bluefoxicy> I mean
[03:44] <Bluefoxicy> what the hell
[03:44] <Bluefoxicy> I can't even find the settings for this, it's like they were stripped
[03:44] <Bluefoxicy> so you can't type grossen or graves or umlaut
[03:48] <atpa8a> why would ubuntu say 'Starting OpenSSH Server [OK]' followed by 'Stopping OpenSSH Server [OK]' for every NIC or alias during boot?
[03:48] <atpa8a> any remedy?
[03:53] <snadge> you're on your own buddy.. upstart is voodoo witchcraft to me ;)
[03:54] <snadge> so ssh server is not running on any of your interfaces? .. i havn't encountered this problem myself
[03:54] <Bluefoxicy> uuuuuuuuuugh
[03:54] <Bluefoxicy> scheisse
[03:54] <atpa8a> snadge: it is running, and if i set its IP in sshd_config it's all kosher, just annoying messages :P
[03:55] <atpa8a> and it does seem related to upstart
[03:56] <atpa8a> i tried allow-hotplug instead of auto in /etc/network/interfaces and it would report openssh starting only once...
[03:56] <jbroman> Hello all; is there any reason why gnome-panel transitively depends on multiple large packages, including pulseaudio, accountsservice and network-manager*? The GNOME session appears to exist fine without these, but the panel seems necessary for a sane desktop environment (I could be wrong on this; GNOME is not my desktop environment).
[03:56] <atpa8a> but then the alieases won't come up
[03:56] <jbroman> It seems like it should be possible to have a GNOME session available without requiring that the system include a specific audio subsystem, network configuration system, and account service.
[03:57] <jbroman> (The last of which is most troubling, as it appears to interfere with LightDM's dmrc caching functionality when user homedirs are unavailable.)
[04:04] <micahg> jbroman: try with --no-install-recommends
[04:05] <jbroman> micahg: Hmm. Looks good via SSH; will have to wait until tomorrow until I have physical access to verify that the shell works.
[04:05] <jbroman> I'd forgotten that recommended packages were pulled along by default (but not suggested).
[04:06] <jbroman> I thought I'd changed that it my apt conf, but this is a new machine, so I guess not.
[04:06] <imnichol> So does anyone know how to remove a library from rhythmbox?
[04:06] <imnichol> I tried using gconf-editor, but there's no rhythmbox entry
[04:06] <jbroman> Is there a good way to mark a package as "don't install this unless I explicitly ask you to", akin to holding an installed package at a particular version?
[04:10] <gnomefreak> anyohne able to scroll in gnome-terminal using the roller on the mouse?
[04:15] <gnomefreak> s/anyohne/anyone
[04:30] <DanaG1> jbroman: look into apt preferences / pins.
[04:30] <jbroman> DanaG1: Yeah, found that.
[04:30] <jbroman> Thanks.
[04:57] <scootero1211> My 12.04 installation from LiveCD seems to be stuck at "Configuring Target System...". Should I skip this stage?
[04:59] <gnomefreak> is there a way to print a web page that wont allow me to print for some messed up reason. ther opton i get is prin to file. lasst week i was ablet o print from all my browsers now nothing
[05:28] <orionsonofneptun> hey
[05:29] <orionsonofneptun> any body alive
[06:43] <alkisg> Hi, I'm on a 3 months old Precise installation and I don't have ubuntu-desktop installed... I guess it got lost on some package upgrade or removal, and I should reinstall it, right?
[06:45] <alkisg> Heh, fun, I was missing unity too
[07:45] <number_one_1> hello
[08:00] <UrB> help confirming this bug would be much appreciated: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/950413
[08:00] <UrB> so if anyone has the same bluetooth chip on their computer, test the same thing - it'll only take few minutes to do :)
[10:19] <bluefrog> how do you create a launcher?
[10:23] <bluefrog> besides creating a .desktop file and filling it in. not every user will do that
[10:47] <jo-erlend> I'm drowning in fresh regressions. Unity is so slow it's almost unusable. Keyboard shortcuts like super to open the dash, doesn't work anymore. :/
[10:48] <jo-erlend> Precise has been so nice to me until now. Then after going into beta, lots of regressions appear. Not good.
[10:52] <Fujk> can you remove the new left menu in ubuntu?
[10:53] <jadahl> the dock? or the hud?
[10:53] <Fujk> the transparent dock thing
[10:53] <Fujk> I want to use gnome do instead
[10:53] <jadahl> System settings -> Appearance -> Behavior -> Auto-hide
[10:54] <jadahl> won't make it go away, but at least you won't see it
[10:54] <jadahl> if you want it to go away completely, I suppose you have to run something else than Unity
[10:54] <Fujk> what part is unity? the menu or the WM?
[10:55] <jadahl> both, AFAIK
[10:56] <Fujk> I think I will go back to previous version
[10:57] <UrB> jo-erlend: just installing 180MB of updates, hope nothing breaks down (using gnome-shell instead of unity) :S
[11:33] <kylen> what U think about new ubuntu is faster then previous version ?
[11:34] <kylen> on 11.10 on Sony Vaio E350 Unity sloooooooowly
[11:34] <kylen> i know te 12.04 is devel at this momment and debug options is on
[11:35] <kylen> but unity maybe a little faster then 11.10
[11:35] <kylen> :(
[11:36] <Daekdroom> Unity got faster in 12.04, indeed.
[11:36] <ironhalik> kylen: check your video drivers
[11:37] <ironhalik> unity is ok on my old GMA950, which is like fifty times slower then enything E350 has
[11:38] <notify> unity is a bit divisive, despite the name
[11:40] <kylen> ironhalik: thx, i have newest ati driver. At this time i use lubuntu on this netbook and all is oki
[11:41] <kylen> glxgears shows 2600 frames
[11:41] <kylen> this is good resaults
[11:41] <kylen> :)
[11:41] <Daekdroom> glxgears is not a benchmark.
[11:43] <kylen> i know, but this app good show power of GPU
[11:43] <Daekdroom> No, it doesn't.
[11:43] <kylen> Daekdroom: what do U suggest ?
[11:43] <kylen> Daekdroom: why ?
[11:44] <ironhalik> kylen: LXDE is much less gpu intensive then Unity, and also, there may be problems that wont show in glxgears
[11:44] <Daekdroom> I remember there's a whole page in X wiki telling why.
[11:44] <ironhalik> like for me, binary nvidia drivers make scrolling PITA, causes Xorg to jump to 100% cpu usage
[11:44] <ironhalik> while glxgears shows decent numbers
[11:44] <Daekdroom> Oooh. It wasn't X wiki
[11:44] <notify> glxgears _is_ a benchmark, but not a wholly reliable one
[11:45] <Daekdroom> Nope. It's not a benchmark at all.
[11:45] <Daekdroom> All it tells you is whether you have vsync on and it might - suggest - you don't have 3D Accel.
[11:45] <Daekdroom> http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Glxgears_is_not_a_Benchmark
[11:45] <ironhalik> its boolean benchmark - shows that opengl either works or not ;>
[11:45] <Daekdroom> 'So to summarize, glxgears only tests a small part of what you typically see in a 3D game. You could have glxgears FPS performance increase, but your 3D game performance decrease. Likewise, you could have glxgears performance decrease and your 3D game performance increase. '
[11:46] <notify> yeah yeah
[11:46] <notify> However, it is a very limited 'test'.
[11:46] <notify> the title of a blog is not a substitute for reality btw
[11:47] <notify> opinion masquerading as absolute reality
[11:47] <Daekdroom> But it isn't a benchmark.
[11:47] <Daekdroom> It's not about the title of something.
[11:47] <brendand> of course it's a benchmark
[11:48] <Daekdroom> Anyone can clearly see it does almost nothing a game does.
[11:48] <Daekdroom> It doesn't even have textures.
[11:48] <ironhalik> it has polygons, though :>
[11:48] <kylen> partly shows the power of the gpu card
[11:48] <brendand> just because it's not a good one for the purpose some people use it for doesn't make it not a benchmark
[11:48] <Daekdroom> How many, compared to OpenArena?
[11:48] <ironhalik> Daekdroom: hard to say, you could squeeze a lot into those cogs
[11:48] <Daekdroom> It shows you whether you can run OpenGL without crashing X.
[11:48] <Daekdroom> ironhalik, they don't.
[11:48] <kylen> Daekdroom: u have right, this is not fully benchmark, but partly show about strengh of gpu
[11:49] <kylen> :)
[11:49] <Daekdroom> It doesn't show strength of GPU
[11:49] <Daekdroom> It is limited by a lot of other bottlenecks.
[11:49] <Daekdroom> Including CPU
[11:49] <notify> brendand: you are right, of course. now glxgears isn't a very good benchmark, but that is beside the point
[11:49] <Daekdroom> Even the compositing manager you are using can change the results there.
[11:50] <notify> "glxgears is not a very good benchmark". done :)
[11:50] <brendand> it tells you perfectly well how good different systems are at running glxgears :)
[11:51] <ironhalik> guys, stop freting about it ;>
[11:51] <kylen> i know when my gpu card show 300frame, then  compiz doesn`t work smoothly, but when i see 1200frame i know the compiz work good :) glxgears is a very littttle benchmark heh
[11:51] <brendand> it wouldn't be a benchmark if it didn't tell you, for example, how many fps were achieved
[11:51] <ironhalik> it uses gpu and has a number output, it is _some_ kind of benchmark :P
[11:51] <notify> it also tells you whether vsync is on or not
[11:51] <ironhalik> but who cares ;>
[11:51] <brendand> if it was just spinning cogs and no data then it would not be a benchmark
[11:51] <brendand> and now i'm done!
[11:52] <ironhalik> so, lets compare resaults! :D
[11:52] <kylen> hehe:)
[11:52] <kylen> oki :D
[11:52] <notify> so are we all agreed, unity and glxgears _must_ go
[11:52] <ironhalik> Ive got ~2100 on GF8600 and nouveau drivers, ~5000 on nvidias drivers
[11:52] <ironhalik> ;>
[11:53] <kylen> Sony Vaio E350 ATI 6300 (APU) - on 2399 with out compiz ( on LXDE lubuntu)
[11:53] <notify> about 2800 here. crappy 64-bit gpu memory bus
[11:54] <notify> nvidia 210
[11:55] <brendand> i get 300, but vsync is on?
[11:55] <kylen> we see the benchmark show difference between nouveau drv / nvidias
[11:55] <kylen> this test show the glxgears is a little benchmark :D
[11:55] <kylen> hehe
[11:55] <kylen> when vsync is on glxgears show 60frame max
[11:58] <kylen> what benchmark U suggest  ?
[11:59] <kylen> to compare speed unity between unity 2D
[11:59] <kylen> ehh
[11:59] <kylen> maybe 12.04 run oki on APU vaio
[11:59] <kylen> will see what be ...
[11:59] <notify> kylen: yeah or whatever your monitor max sync rate is. mine is 150 but i run it at 85, to save the tube. yes that's right crt monitor
[11:59] <ironhalik> sure, check it out
[11:59] <ironhalik> and also, try opensource drivers
[12:00] <brendand> ah, see with vblank_mode=0 i get closer to 1900 fps
[12:01] <notify> anything over 1000 and you can relax
[12:01] <kylen> kylen@VAIBUNTU:~$ glxgears
[12:01] <kylen> 11295 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2258.922 FPS
[12:01] <kylen> 11972 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2394.256 FPS
[12:01] <kylen> 11573 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2314.490 FPS
[12:01] <kylen> :)
[12:02] <kylen> Sony VAIO VPC-EB1S1E
[12:05] <kylen> notify: right :)
[12:24] <mischasworld> hello
[12:24] <mischasworld> I recently updated to precise kubuntu beta, suspend to ram via settings in kde settings is not working, if i call pm-suspend via sudo its working any iedas to fix this?
[12:27] <mischasworld> almaxorife: is sudo pm-suspend working for you?
[12:28] <almoxarife> mischasworld: normal suspend works, hibernate does not
[12:28] <almoxarife> mischasworld: have you looked at the logs?
[12:29] <htorque> do you guys know if this really is the new gtk color chooser? http://img.xrmb2.net/images/709325.png
[12:29] <mischasworld> almoxarife: is your swap partition big enough ? also i found this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-desktop-privileges/+bug/812394
[12:31] <almoxarife> mischasworld: 4gig swap, 4gig mem
[12:31] <mischasworld> almoxarife: I looked in the logs, didn't find errors, my problem seems to be pm-suspend not being called from kde
[12:32] <mischasworld> almoxarife: do you have this file on your pc /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla
[12:33] <almoxarife> mischasworld: no, file not there
[12:33] <mischasworld> almoxarife: if not try to create it (with root privilegs)  and insert this content
[12:34] <mischasworld> [Re-enable hibernate by default]
[12:34] <mischasworld> Identity=unix-user:*
[12:34] <mischasworld> Action=org.freedesktop.upower.hibernate
[12:34] <mischasworld> ResultActive=yes
[12:35] <mischasworld> anyone got an idea, for solving my problem?
[12:39] <mischasworld> almoxarife: did it work?
[12:40] <almoxarife> mischasworld: didn't try it yet, why can't the same be used for 'suspend'?
[12:43] <mischasworld> almoxarife: cause suspend isnt deactivated by (k)ubuntu by default, my suspend is working but only if i call it manualy via pm-suspend oder via the power button. It isn't called by the activated time in kdes systemsettings
[12:55] <kylen> to use suspend must have big swap ?
[13:09] <Ian_Corne> no
[13:09] <Ian_Corne> suspend is to memory
[13:09] <Ian_Corne> hibernate puts all memory in swap
[13:12] <tomodachi> Ian_Corne: all memory as in ram + gfx ram?
[13:13] <mischasworld> suspend to disk is hibernate, suspend2ram is suspend
[13:54] <ironhalik> hmm, @hibernation and big swaps
[13:54] <ironhalik> devs could do something to make hibernation work without swap >= ram
[13:54] <ironhalik> sth like hibersys file
[13:55] <patdk-wk> heh
[13:55] <patdk-wk> compressed ram -> disk
[13:55] <patdk-wk> would make hibernation faster
[13:55] <patdk-wk> and even restores
[14:03]  * yofel_ agrees with patdk-wk
[14:03] <yofel_> uswsusp does compress on hibernate though I think
[14:03] <patdk-wk> ya I think it does
[14:03] <yofel> but last time I used a swap file for hibernation it was a bit tricky to set up
[14:04] <patdk-wk> I haven't had working hibernation or sleep for years
[14:04] <patdk-wk> so I just don't bother
[14:04] <yofel> I got it to work for a while a few months ago, but then it just broke for no reason and I couldn't find out what's wrong
[14:05] <patdk-wk> technically what I wanted working hibernation for, is vmware :)
[14:05] <yofel> and since I put a SSD into this notebook I don't use hibernate at all anyway
[14:05] <patdk-wk> it takes so long to put my vm's to suspend on my laptop, even with my ssd
[14:05] <patdk-wk> compression on that would be nice :)
[14:09] <ironhalik> dunno if uswusp compresses, but it fails if swap is smaller then the ram size
[14:09] <ironhalik> ram is cheap, ssd space is premium and swap on secondary HDD is slow :>
[14:12] <yofel> well, I guess you could create a swap file on hibernation, but I believe even windows creates a file as large as your memory as you can't accurately calculate how much space you'll need
[14:12] <ironhalik> yeah, the hibersys file
[14:12] <ironhalik> but AFAIK, its more optimal, dumps only the used ram
[14:13] <yofel> uhm, from what I've seen, uswsusp only writes what's used either
[14:13] <ironhalik> and with, lets say 8 gig of ram, you wont go to sleep in the middle of some heavy encoding job :)
[14:13] <yofel> at least hibernating with 1GiB was faster than with 8GiB used
[14:14] <ironhalik> yeah, but currently it seems to check the worst case confition - if swap is smaller then the ammout of ram, it wont work
[14:14] <c3sso> hello
[14:14] <yofel> well, I don't know what checks upower does to figure that out TBH
[14:15] <yofel> for me it says: 'can-hibernate: no', but KDE's powermanagement says I can
[14:15] <c3sso> can somebody tell me why my changes to /etc/sudoers in precise work only for 1 reboot?
[14:15] <yofel> and for all practical purposes I have enough swap to hibernate
[14:15] <c3sso> I mean I reboot the machine and then It asks for password again for things I do not want it to
[14:16] <ironhalik> yofel: for me, it may be a bug as well
[14:16] <yofel> true
[14:16] <c3sso> but sudoers file is  correct and I can see the entries I made there are there
[14:16] <tomodachi> ironhalik: when writing ram to swap, does one have to have enough space for gfx ram?
[14:16] <c3sso> tux ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/ubiquity
[14:16] <yofel> tomodachi: I don't think that's saved at all
[14:17] <ironhalik> tomodachi: no idea
[14:17] <tomodachi> ok  i guess it can be regenerated from ram
[14:17] <tomodachi> but wasnt sure
[14:17] <ironhalik> yofel is prolly right, though
[14:17] <doda1> hi folks
[14:18] <rye> anybody knows whether susppending calls fsync() ?
[14:18] <rye> sorry, wrong channel
[14:18] <doda1> i have an integrated nvidia gpu and both 12.04 daily build from like a week ago and 11.10 don't work fine from the livecd because of faulty drivers
[14:18] <c3sso> anybody? I am using precise and this seems to be a serious issue
[14:18] <doda1> where can i report that ?
[14:19] <yofel> c3sso: that looks right...
[14:20] <yofel> c3sso: where in sudoers do you set that? below or above the %admin/%sudo settings?
[14:20] <yofel> last time I edited sudoers the group permissions overwrote the user settings
[14:20] <c3sso> # Members of the admin group may gain root privileges
[14:20] <c3sso> %admin ALL=(ALL) ALL
[14:21] <c3sso> same where I defined them in maverick
[14:21] <yofel> hm, no idea then
[14:21] <c3sso> has that changed? I do not think so...
[14:22] <c3sso> hm
[14:22] <c3sso> I am not really shure whats going on either....
[14:22] <c3sso> I have precise in a  virtual machine..
[14:24] <c3sso> when I reboot it, and then open a terminal, enter sudo reboot (which is also defined in /etc/sudoers to not ask for password
[14:24] <c3sso> it asks it.
[14:25] <c3sso> when I then open the file in gedit (I know, one should not do that...but just open, not edit anything...) and close it, then issue again the sudo reboot
[14:25] <c3sso> then is reboots without asking....
[14:26] <c3sso> strange
[14:28] <c3sso> where to ask for that?????
[14:32] <Pici> What is the question exactly?
[14:32] <Pici> c3sso: ^
[14:32] <c3sso> uhm
[14:33] <c3sso> I have defined  /sbin/reboot  to not ask for password in /etc/sudoers
[14:33] <rye> c3sso: it caches the authorization for some time
[14:33] <c3sso> but when I freshly reboot?
[14:34] <Pici> c3sso: Is the entry changed in /etc/sudoers ?
[14:34] <rye> c3sso: so sudo cmd1; sudo cmd2 will ask for the first time only
[14:34] <Pici> er s/Is/Has/
[14:34] <c3sso> ?
[14:35] <c3sso> first time?
[14:35] <c3sso> I have exactly the same made in maverick
[14:35] <c3sso> and it would always reboot, without asking me
[14:36] <Pici> c3sso: Okay. So you edit /etc/sudoers.  It works for a little bit.  You reboot, it doesn't work anymore.  Has the entry that you made in /etc/sudoers changed or disappeared?
[14:36] <c3sso> no
[14:37] <c3sso> and thats what I do not understand
[14:37] <Pici> c3sso: Can you pastebin your sudoers file?
[14:37] <c3sso> ok
[14:38] <c3sso> paste.ubuntu.com/893684
[14:40] <c3sso> have the same entries on maverick, and there it just works as it should...
[14:40] <Pici> c3sso: And the user in question is in the tux group?
[14:42] <yofel> the use is tux
[14:42] <yofel> or it would be %tux
[14:42] <yofel> *user is
[14:42] <c3sso> true
[14:43] <c3sso> anyways, If there would be some dbus commands to shutdown the machine, I would be glad, too
[14:43] <Pici> er, right, user.
[14:45] <c3sso> hmm
[14:45] <c3sso> I try to remove the entrys but just leave reboot... maybe that helps...
[14:49] <c3sso> nope...
[14:49] <c3sso> can somebody try that out?
[14:52] <c3sso> what would be the dbus shutdown /reboot/ hibernate commands  for precise? I am trying to shutdown precise from openbox running....
[14:54] <Ian_Corne> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3696644/linux-shutdown-with-dbus-send
[14:55] <c3sso> are you shure that this works with precise?
[14:55] <yofel> I doubt that as it has "Hal" in it
[14:57] <c3sso> true..
[14:57] <Ian_Corne> :)
[15:00] <c3sso> I thought there would be a standarized dbus call to org.Freedesktop to do that
[15:01] <yofel> me too, but for PowerManagement all I can find is Hibernate() and Suspend()
[15:01] <c3sso> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=58094 looks promising...
[15:08] <c3sso> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ConsoleKit#Use_dbus_for_power_operations  works
[15:17] <glosoli> Anyone else got the problem that LightDM Wallpaper is not changed when you change your desktop wallpaper ?
[16:01] <zerwas> When using the Dash to start applications, every applications is started twice. This only happens for a specific user. What could be the reason for this bug?
[16:02] <zerwas> and this *only* happens when i type the name of the application and press enter. If i click on the application icon the dash, it works fine
[16:05] <zerwas> Trying to delete .config/dconf/user
[16:07] <zerwas> That didn't help.
[16:23] <pg345>  I'm trying to install ubuntu 12.04 with preseeding, here's my config based from the example. As it is, the installation works but the keyboard is not setup correctly. Also, when i replace « ubuntu-desktop » with « lamp-server » the installation just hangs after installing a lot of stuff.
[16:31] <bluefrog> is, creating manually a .desktop file, the only way to create a shortcut on the desktop for example?
[16:31] <Captain_Proton> if it does not have one on install
[16:32] <bluefrog> to create a brand new shortcut
[16:32] <bluefrog> I don't a "create shortcut" menu anymore anywhere
[16:32] <bluefrog> don't see
[16:33] <Captain_Proton> If you are not aware you can create them .local/share/applications
[16:33] <bluefrog> well that's the point of my question. only way then
[16:35] <Captain_Proton> you may be able to main menu to create them. I create them manually
[16:35] <bluefrog> main menu? where?
[16:35] <Captain_Proton> search main menu it will not remove icons like in the old days but it should create one for you
[16:35] <Captain_Proton> windows key > main menu
[16:37] <bluefrog> there's no "create schorcut" menu in there
[16:38] <Captain_Proton> you may have to install it sudo apt-get install alacarte
[16:39] <bluefrog> ok will do without create shortcut. alacarte is universe
[17:09] <ryanprior> I just tried to install Ubuntu+1 and grub failed to install. I see a bug open in Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/899213) which says it should be an "easy fix" but I'd like a workaround so I can try my installed system. Any ideas how I can get my grub working?
[17:27] <allain> Hello. About twice a day, I get a white bar in the top left of my desktop that obscures whatever is behind it but doesn't stop me from clicking on them. Rebooting removes it, but I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem?
[17:50] <ryanprior> I just tried to install Ubuntu+1 and grub failed to install. I see a bug open in Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/899213) which says it should be an "easy fix" but I'd like a workaround so I can try my installed system. Any ideas how I can get my grub working?
[17:58] <kash> how did you lot get around the gconf2 bug?
[18:02] <Captain_Proton> anyone know how to make message menu turn color on all new emails? I found it once in a bug report, I had to set a perm in thunderbird > prefs.js to show_all or something
[18:03] <kash> okay, so gconf-service is not listed as a dependency for whatever reason, once that is installed then the system upgrade continues
[18:08] <topyli> ooh i have window decorations again :)
[18:08] <kash> that's usually good :)
[18:08] <topyli> it's nice, yes
[18:09] <Captain_Proton> found it > 'user_pref("extensions.messagingmenu.attentionForAll", true);'
[18:34] <ryanprior> I just tried to install Ubuntu+1 and grub failed to install. I see a bug open in Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/899213) which says it should be an "easy fix" but I'd like a workaround so I can try my installed system. Any ideas how I can get my grub working?
[18:55] <kbroulik> hmm since kernel 3.2.0-18 and now 3.2.0-19 I cannot load kernel modules, it always says "kernel does not have kernel module"; it works fine with the 3.2.0-17 though
[19:10] <roasted> did gconf-editor go buhbyes?
[19:14] <Pici> roasted: things should be transitioning to dconf.
[19:14] <moonshadow> Hello
[19:14] <moonshadow> I'm testing Ubuntu Precise Beta 1, and can't use sudo because it appears to freeze.
[19:14] <roasted> Pici: oh? Haven't heard of dconf. I'll have to look into it. I'm just trying to enable advanced permissions within nautilus.
[19:15] <roasted> Pici: I assume dconf-editor?
[19:15] <Pici> roasted: I guess.  I haven't actually upgraded anything here to precise myself.
[19:16] <nischayn22> hi I am having problems setting phpunit in ubuntu 12.04
[19:16] <ironhalik> roasted: gconf is working for me
[19:17] <roasted> ironhalik: in 12.04? I type it, I can see it come up in unity, but if I click it nothing happens... it's like it's a dead link
[19:17] <topyli> gconf still works for apps who haven't migrated to gsettings and dconf. the transition is ongoing
[19:19] <roasted> topyli: all I'm aiming to do is enable advanced nautilus permissions. Why nautilus doesn't do it by default like kde/dolphin do is beyond me, but that's all I'm looking to do on this box... is gconf still the way for that task?
[19:20] <topyli> roasted: i think nautilus is dconf-editor land now
[19:20] <roasted> topyli: I see. I assume needs installed?
[19:20] <topyli> yes
[19:20] <roasted> unable to locate package
[19:20] <roasted> hm
[19:20] <roasted> sudo apt-get install dconf-editor ??
[19:21] <topyli> and as to why nautilus doesn't have a ton of buttons and sliders, it's not how we do things in gnome land :)
[19:21] <topyli> roasted: yes
[19:21] <roasted> topyli: makes zero sense, but we'll agree to disagree on that one. :)
[19:22] <roasted> dconf-editor isn't available to install. oh well.
[19:22] <topyli> roasted: it's yes i'm wondering about that too right now
[19:22] <topyli> somehow, i have it installed
[19:23] <roasted> how old is your build?
[19:23] <topyli> since alpha 2 or so
[19:23] <ironhalik> the package is dconf-tools
[19:23] <topyli> oh yes
[19:23] <ironhalik> also, try launching gconf-editor from terminal
[19:23] <ironhalik> and see what happens
[19:24] <roasted> ironhalik: nothing happened if I recall, one sec
[19:24] <ironhalik> anyone noticed 'Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap'
[19:24] <roasted> not installed
[19:24] <ironhalik> well then, install it :) apt-get install gconf-editor
[19:24] <topyli> roasted: does apt give you a suggestion?
[19:24] <topyli> gconf-editor is not going to help here
[19:25] <ironhalik> Package: gconf-editor
[19:25] <ironhalik> Priority: optional
[19:25] <roasted> got dconf installed... not seeing nautilus anywhere though...
[19:25] <ironhalik> Section: universe/utils
[19:25] <topyli> nautilus should be somewher in org/gnome/...
[19:26] <topyli> yes, there it is
[19:26] <ironhalik> in gconf, its in /apps/nautilus :P
[19:26] <topyli> gconf is not relevant
[19:26] <roasted> oh helloo there advanced permissions
[19:26] <roasted> SO nice to see you again
[19:27] <ironhalik> hmm, I need gconf to change setting for terminal
[19:27] <ironhalik> also, dconf could use a search feature
[19:27] <roasted> now, I'm a little confused. was gconf included by default before in the install? I don't recall ever having to install it like I had to do with dconf just now
[19:28] <topyli> sure gconf is still around, but not for those gnome apps who have already made the transition
[19:28] <topyli> roasted: gconf was always around, otherwise gnome would not work. the same thing with dconf now. but the editors are a different matter
[19:29] <roasted> topyli: but I don't recall needing to install gconf-editor to show advanced perms before. Maybe I did and I forget, but it crossed my mind
[19:30] <topyli> you did install it, gconf-editor was never installed by default on any distribution i know of
[19:30] <topyli> maybe gentoo or something :)
[19:30] <roasted> okay, just curious :)
[19:31] <roasted> one last curios question... what does sticky do in advanced perms? I see it changes the output to rwxrwxrwt
[19:31] <ironhalik> Hmm, I just lost eth0 on my desktop, after the latest update
[19:32] <ironhalik> hmm, 'the microsoft patch' fixed it :>
[19:33] <topyli> roasted: look up 'sticky bit' on wikipedia, i bet they have an article on it
[19:33]  * topyli looks himself
[19:37] <DropsOfSerenity> does anyone know when the compiz patch is coming in that fixes the rebinding of the HUD  key problem with alt-tab?
[19:41] <DropsOfSerenity> the bug page says the fix is in compiz-core revision 3057, ubuntu is on 3035 at the moment, I'm wondering when 3057 will be included with the updates
[19:43] <glosoli> Anyone got the problem that lightdm wallpaper is not being updated when you change desktop wallpaper ?
[19:44] <c3sso> ok, what happened to /usr/share/nautilus/ui/nautilus-directory-view-ui.xml  ?
[19:45] <c3sso>  its missing in ubuntu precise... I mean its missing in newest nautilus package itself....
[19:45] <c3sso>  can somebody tell me If I can still remove items from rightclick menu in nautilus, without recompiling it?
[19:45] <c3sso>  http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=precise&arch=any&mode=exactfilename&searchon=contents&keywords=nautilus-directory-view-ui.xml
[19:46] <acnot> Hi there all I sorted out my Ubuntu 12.04  shutting down upon playing any type of video in any type of media play.
[19:47] <acnot> As I suspected it was the ATI proprietary video card driver
[19:48] <acnot> So I just disabled that for now and as it is promised that that particuler bug will be squashed by the release of 12.04
[20:04] <treebear> hello
[20:05] <treebear> is  linux kernel 3.3 going to be shipped with ubuntu 12.04 lts?
[20:05] <itaylor57> i don't believe so
[20:05] <treebear> or is canonical going to stick with  linux kernel 3.2.x ?
[20:06] <Dulak> 3.2 is where they froze, so no
[20:06] <treebear> kernel freeze is due to 5th april
[20:06] <treebear> if i'm not mistaken
[20:06] <kklimonda> it's only for changes to the config and backporting patches
[20:06] <Dulak> Hmmm, I thought everything was frozen already...
[20:06] <kklimonda> kernel has been choosen months ago
[20:07] <itaylor57> treebear, look at the link http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/precise/beta1 it discusses the kernel info for the release
[20:07] <kklimonda> treebear: you'll get newer kernel when 12.10 is released. they'll backport it for 12.04 after that
[20:07] <treebear> will i be able to install kernel 3.3 and remove 3.2.x version of the kernel?
[20:07] <kklimonda> treebear: why do you need 3.3?
[20:07] <treebear> what do you mean by "backporting" it?
[20:08] <kklimonda> prepare an official package for 12.04 (supported until 12.10 is EOL)
[20:09] <treebear> will i be able to install kernel 3.3 and remove the 3.2.x version of the kernel on 12.04 LTS?
[20:09] <johnjohn101> i'm guessing compiling your own kernel for your ubuntu version isn't a good idea.
[20:09] <Dulak> security and bug fix patches get ported to older kernels when possible,  it's called backporting.
[20:09] <treebear> not compiling, but installing from apt sources
[20:10] <treebear> that won't be possible in ubuntu 12.04 for the kernel, right?
[20:10] <itaylor57> treebear, no it won't
[20:11] <treebear> i see
[20:11] <kklimonda> treebear: you'll be able to install it after 12.10 is released, but why do you need it?
[20:11] <treebear> well, the main reason i would like to move to kernel 3.3 is the new features
[20:11] <treebear> and bugs being fixed
[20:12] <kklimonda> bugs are being fixed in 3.2 too
[20:13] <johnjohn101> treebear, i found this on the net.  http://www.howopensource.com/2011/08/how-to-compile-and-install-linux-kernel-3-0-in-ubuntu-11-04-10-10-and-10-04/  but I would use at own risk.
[20:14] <kklimonda> mainline kernels have their own ppa
[20:14] <kklimonda> so you can just use it
[20:14] <micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
[20:14] <Dulak> He said without compiling though, so I'd assume he means use a package from a later ubuntu
[20:15] <kklimonda> but it's not worth it most of the time unless you are hitting some actual bug or need better hardware support
[20:15] <johnjohn101> i agree, i've never had to swap out a kernel. but then again i don't use cutting edge hardware either
[20:16] <treebear> that's exactly what i need
[20:16] <treebear> thanks johnjohn101
[20:17] <johnjohn101> treebear: i found this as well   http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1915324.html
[20:24] <treebear> if i'm not mistaken, this  kernel 3.3 is not an RC anymore but a final version
[20:24] <treebear> am i right or am i right?
[20:24] <treebear> :)
[20:25] <itaylor57> treebear, if you are dead set on using the latest bleeding edge kernel, you might consider another distro than ubuntu
[20:27] <kklimonda> treebear: yes, it's been released few days ago
[20:28] <johnjohn101> treebear: you can check here.   http://www.kernel.org/
[20:38] <c3sso> or use liquoriz kernel
[20:40] <c3sso> what actually are these messages when starting up with plymouth disabled:  these Starting... Stopping... messages. they seem to be annother system startup mechnism?
[20:41] <treebear> yeah i get annoyed by this plymouth messages, too
[20:41] <treebear> how can they be turned off?
[20:43] <c3sso> is theis plymouth who produces that messazges? starting and right after that stopping the same thing?I mean I can alter the color of the [ ok ]  messages of classic startup items in /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh
[20:43] <c3sso> but not for these items
[20:43] <treebear> whenever i suspend my system, i see two plymouth messages
[20:43] <treebear> what is plymouth anyway?
[20:45] <treebear> i see the  plymouth  mountall command failed
[20:45] <treebear> why is this plymouth so annying?
[20:45] <c3sso> I doubt plymouth is the problem, it draws the nice ubuntu graphics at startup, I disabled it. I see onle the text messsages then. Also, they seem to randomly show up...
[20:46] <yofel> plymouth is what shows you the boot and shutdown splash, and handles and communication between system services and you during that time
[20:46] <yofel> *and handles the communication
[20:47] <treebear> i see
[20:48] <yofel> c3sso: the [ ok ] comes from sys-v-init if I remember correctly, and from the compatibility mode that's used these days, but we use upstart now for service management
[20:48] <treebear> why do i _always_ get the  plymouth mountall failed  message at startup?
[20:49] <mongo> yofel: one bit of documentation i've been looking for is how upstart chooses it's order, openvswitch is very broken, it is started way too late and I'd like to just fix that but I can't find good docs on how to set startup order
[20:49] <yofel> hm, you shouldn't - mountall is what handles mounting drives from fstab on boot
[20:49] <mongo> treebear: you have NFS volumes in /etc/fstab?
[20:49] <mongo> treebear: upstart is doing a mountall before the network is up
[20:50] <yofel> mongo: there is no startup "order". you tell a service which services need to be up before it can start
[20:50] <treebear> so why can't plymouth mount all things in fstab?
[20:50] <yofel> and disks need to be mounted before network IIRC
[20:50] <treebear> at boottime
[20:50] <yofel> uhm, check the logs for drive failures? "mountall failed" is too generic of an error
[20:51] <mongo> yofel: see, taht is not always true, which is one of the things they need to flesh out on upstart
[20:51] <treebear> where can i find this specific log?
[20:52] <yofel> mongo: well, true, currently mountall handels both local and remove filesystems, which doesn't quite work
[20:52] <mongo> yofel: root in ro is enough to bring up the network and you could have a network mounted disk that is needed for full boot
[20:52] <yofel> s/remove/remote/
[20:52] <mongo> the real problem is that network manager is years behind on debian too
[20:53] <mongo> I think that is the problem, network manager interfaces come up in the correct order but /etc/network/interfaces doesn't
[20:54] <treebear> and so plymouth can't mount all network interfaces at that particular time at the boottime?
[20:54] <mongo> oh ya mountall is pretty simple too
[20:55] <yofel> well, can't say anything there as the only system where I don't use network-manager doesn't have any NFS mounts
[20:55] <treebear> what's nfs again?
[20:55] <mongo> treebear: really it looks like it just calls mount -a multiple times
[20:55] <yofel> network file system
[20:55] <mongo> which means you can ignore that error
[20:55] <treebear> oh got it
[20:55] <mongo> if it is from NFS/SMB shares
[20:55] <yofel> if mountall would *really* fail, it wouldn't even continue to boot
[20:56] <treebear> so how many times is the command  mountall  fired then?
[20:56] <treebear> once?
[20:56] <yofel> no idea
[20:56] <treebear> and then it persistently mounts things as it boots the OS?
[20:57] <treebear> ubuntu in our case
[20:57] <yofel> mountall is run once, but I don't know what exactly it does then
[20:57] <kklimonda> I think it's launched once and then, when network interfaces are up, it get send signal
[20:57] <mongo> well there is a mountall and a mountall-net
[20:58] <treebear> i guess i see the error because the network interface is not *immediately* mounted when  plymouth mountall command is fired
[20:58] <kklimonda> I'd actually use autofs to mount nfs share only when they are accessed
[20:58] <mongo> with iscsi/nfs etc....it would be hard to catch all network mounts
[20:59] <yofel> hm, mountall-net does seem to send mountall a retry for network drives
[20:59] <kklimonda> yes, but mountall quits after we reach rcS
[20:59] <mongo> kklimonda: autohome can cause other issues
[20:59] <yofel> this is a mess
[20:59] <kklimonda> so if you don't get network up soon enough you won't get network shares mounted
[20:59] <treebear> rcs?
[20:59] <mongo> is there any way to get logging to work to catch what is preventing shutdown
[21:00] <mongo> I have that on several systems
[21:00] <treebear> what is rcs?
[21:00] <mongo> it unmounts and hangs, if I do ctrl-alt-delete it say it is writing the clock but it requires a hard power off
[21:00] <treebear> i'm not so familiar with these acronyms
[21:00] <mongo> treebear: i'm guessing single mode run level
[21:00] <yofel> as mongo said
[21:01] <kklimonda> yeah, but something definitely kills mountall at some point
[21:01] <yofel> run levels are from sys-v-init days though
[21:02] <treebear> yeah... but what?
[21:02] <kklimonda> well, it's theory - in practice we won't really get rid of sysvinit scripts for quite a while
[21:02] <mongo> didn't fedora must announce they are moving to some brand new init thing?
[21:02] <yofel> which would be systemd
[21:02] <yofel> haven't looked much into it yet
[21:03] <mongo> oh cool it actually looks intresting if it works as they claim
[21:03] <mongo> http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
[21:04] <kklimonda> heh, this table is very inacurate
[21:04] <c3sso> uhm and the Starting / Stopping messages I get, whats that?
[21:04] <mongo> the LSBInit support would fix most of the updstart migration issues
[21:04] <kklimonda> there is a lot of fud between debian, ubuntu, upstart and systemd developers
[21:05] <mongo> kklimonda: ya, and us users take the brunt
[21:05] <kklimonda> but I'd still love ubuntu to use it so we could limit differences
[21:05] <treebear> isn't grub the one that spits out those  plymouth mountall failed   messages?
[21:05] <mongo> I would like a real way to say "I want openvswitch to start before failsafeboot
[21:06] <yofel> yeah, I'll be happy to get rid of sys-v-init, but then please with something everybody uses
[21:06] <mongo> right now I have to go edit the silly "sleep" entries in failsafe to reduce my boot time by 120 seconds
[21:06] <yofel> treebear: grub only takes care to load the kernel, mount the initramfs and then launches init, and init is upstart for us
[21:06] <mongo> if upstart had honered LSB headers it would be a lot less of a problem too
[21:07] <mongo> soon for PC users grub will be gone too
[21:07] <mongo> well on single boot machines
[21:07] <yofel> well, iirc ubuntu doesn't particulary care about lsb
[21:07] <yofel> mongo: to be replaced by what?
[21:07] <yofel> uEFI?
[21:07] <mongo> yofel: yes, but ubuntu uses a ton of upstream debian packages
[21:08] <mongo> yofel: yes direct EFI boot
[21:08] <yofel> k
[21:08] <kklimonda> yofel: this is pretty much impossible
[21:08] <kklimonda> yofel: for example debian is pretty much set on supporting "toy projects" like kfreebsd or hurd
[21:09] <kklimonda> and neither upstart nor systemd work on them
[21:09] <yofel> well, good point
[21:09] <mongo> and ubuntu is about pretty :) where sysv init doesn't work
[21:09] <yofel> sys-v-init has no problem with pretty, it has a problem with speed
[21:10] <mongo> yofel: yes but with failsafe ubuntu has no claim to boot speed
[21:11] <yofel> uh, failsafe isn't meant to be fast, really, it's supposed to work, that's all
[21:11] <mongo> go look at those sleep statements in /etc/init/failsafe.conf
[21:11] <kklimonda> mongo: well, there are quite a lot server developers for ubuntu
[21:12] <mongo> kklimonda: yes but those patches never make it into the release, I have dozens of KVM boxes running ubuntu
[21:12] <mongo> I have to deal with the nm not supporting bridges mess
[21:12] <kklimonda> mongo: well, nothing does it by itself
[21:12] <kklimonda> server folks are not really interested in the desktop
[21:13] <mongo> kklimonda: ya I am looking at fixing nm with ovpenvswitch
[21:13] <mongo> my main problem with upstart is there is no easy way to fix order problems
[21:14] <yofel> you can edit the start requirements for the services
[21:14] <kklimonda> mongo: well, you just have to stop thinking about it as "order" ;)
[21:14] <yofel> other than that you can only rewrite the scripts
[21:15] <mongo> kklimonda: when I get shoved into failsafe because of order it matters :)
[21:15] <mongo> yofel: how to I say start this script before thisone?
[21:15] <kklimonda> mongo: it's not about order though, but dependencies
[21:15] <yofel> mongo: by telling the other not to start before this is finished
[21:16] <mongo> kklimonda: same thing in this case, you are stuck in syntax
[21:16] <mongo> kklimonda: openvswitch-switch and openvswitch-controller should start before failsafe
[21:17] <mongo> unfortunatly they are in apt but maintained upstream so they are LSB
[21:17] <yofel> then tell failsafe to start on started penvmswitch-switch...
[21:18] <yofel> ok, that's pretty impossible then -.-
[21:18] <yofel> other than porting stuff to upstart
[21:18] <kklimonda> mongo: why do they have to start before failsafe?
[21:18] <mongo> yofel: ya, this is where ubuntu needs to push back more upstream
[21:18] <mongo> kklimonda: because I don't like to wait 120 seconds for a machine to boot for no reason
[21:18] <yofel> mongo: they're in universe, so feel free to push upstream, canonical won't do a thing
[21:19] <mongo> yofel: I know, it is just a pitty because the package is pretty critical to the virtual server bit
[21:20] <mongo> yofel: I'm not anti ubuntu but these things are fustrating :)
[21:20] <yofel> file a bug and find someone that fixes it, I fear you can't do more
[21:20] <kklimonda> mongo: shouldn't it be enough to configure network with /etc/network/interfaces ?
[21:20] <mongo> the past several release have been about UI and have ignored the rest it seems
[21:20] <kklimonda> mongo: failsafe should quit once both filesystem and static-network-up are emitted
[21:20] <mongo> kklimonda: openvswitch is a virtual switch, way past /etc/network/interfaces
[21:21] <kklimonda> mongo: what do you mean?
[21:21] <mongo> yofel: well if they bump wheezy up to the latest qemu-kvm/libvirt we will probably just migrate to wheezy when it is released
[21:22] <mongo> kklimonda: you don't configure the interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces, it is a complete ethernet soft switch
[21:22] <yofel> mongo: as I'm not familiar with openvswitch, what do you need to have up for the system to boot?
[21:22] <yofel> hm
[21:23] <mongo> yofel: to have network
[21:23] <mongo> yofel: once they go back to the /etc/rc.? scripts it does come up
[21:23] <mongo> but after 120seconds of sitting doing nothing due to sleep 60's
[21:24] <kklimonda> mongo: if it completely replaces debian/ubuntu network config then you have to modify its init scripts to emit signals that upstart expects
[21:24] <yofel> you could probably throw the "and static-network-up" condition out of the start requirements for rc-sysinit
[21:24] <mongo> kklimonda: it works fine with ifup
[21:24] <mongo> yofel: I have those
[21:24] <kklimonda> mongo: that's pretty much what ifup -a does
[21:24] <mongo> but 12.04 starts static entries after failsafe
[21:24] <kklimonda> erm, networking.conf
[21:25] <kklimonda> but I guess it's too early because some daemon is not yet running
[21:25] <mongo> kklimonda: I do have to add in an up and down line in interfaces because there is not a physical device
[21:25] <kklimonda> mongo: have you tried editing init scripts so they emit static-network-up when network is actually up?
[21:25] <mongo> kklimonda: how do I get upstart to do an init job for network?
[21:25] <kklimonda> (upstart nor failsafe really care what handles network - it just waits for this signal to continue)
[21:26] <kklimonda> mongo: there is initctl emit
[21:26] <kklimonda> man initctl
[21:26] <uyaffe_> Hi, need some help. can't fine MySQL Query Browser after upgrading my Ubuntu to version 12.04
[21:26] <yofel> true, so either /run/network doesn't exist soon enough, or ifup -a hangs
[21:26] <mongo> ls
[21:27] <mongo> it is a pitty that it didn't make it into the ltr
[21:28] <kklimonda> well, it's not too late
[21:28] <mongo> isn't it all GUI now
[21:28] <kklimonda> but universe packages are maintained by people who care about it
[21:28] <mongo> the packages are in universe though
[21:28] <kklimonda> them*
[21:28] <mongo> kklimonda: this is a base kernel function now as of 3.3 though
[21:28] <kklimonda> so it's up to you to prepare a patch and push it if you really need it
[21:28] <mongo> or just move to debian
[21:29] <mongo> kklimonda: this is a big thing, not some random package like xsnow
[21:29] <yofel> uyaffe_: was removed:
[21:29] <yofel> Deleted on 2011-11-28 by Colin Watson, requested by clint-fewbar; EOL upstream; fails to link against MySQL 5.5; LP: #896463
[21:29] <mongo> although to be honest the libvirt version is too old to take advantage of it
[21:29] <kklimonda> mongo: it's in universe so it's not really a matter of a size/importance but who is responsible for it
[21:30] <kklimonda> as it's a complicated package it should be fixed by someone who can actually test the fix and see if it works
[21:30] <mongo> kklimonda: well the upstream is debian
[21:31] <mongo> kklimonda: there are lots of debian maintained packages that are not universe
[21:32] <mongo> kklimonda: e.g. network manager is not ubuntu
[21:32] <uyaffe_> yofel- But I downloaded it 4 days ago...
[21:32] <kklimonda> mongo: I don't see the point
[21:32] <mongo> kklimonda: ubuntu pulls base functinality packages in all the time
[21:32] <kklimonda> mongo: what I mean is that someone has to fix it
[21:32] <yofel> uyaffe_: not from precise I would say
[21:32] <kklimonda> mongo: Canonical isn't interested in it because no one has paid them for it
[21:32] <yofel> it's avaliable in all older releases
[21:32] <kklimonda> mongo: most community developers can't fix it because they don't use it
[21:33] <uyaffe_> yofel: I downloaded it from the Ubuntu Software Center
[21:33] <mongo> kklimonda: yes but the depricated package is, bridge-utils
[21:33] <yofel> uyaffe_: using which release?
[21:33] <kklimonda> mongo: you can ask people for help (I'd try #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-server) but if you really want to see it fixed then you'll have to get your hands dirty
[21:33] <kklimonda> or switch a distribution
[21:33] <yofel> uyaffe_: see bug 896463 for more information
[21:33] <kklimonda> I don't see any other option - it won't get fixed by itself
[21:33] <bearded-sully> I have a dual boot set up with a shared storage partition, Win xp and Ubuntu Precise, I'm trying to change the default file locations of ubuntu to be in the storage partition, which I have auto mounting on boot already. any pointers? It's not how it used to be before unity...
[21:34] <mongo> kklimonda: really no, I just want to figure out how to get to go in the right order
[21:34] <kklimonda> mongo: I've already told you what I'd try to do
[21:34] <mongo> kklimonda: and i'm trying to free up a physical to try it right now
[21:34] <kklimonda> great :)
[21:34] <uyaffe_> yofel: so what can I do now? is it possible to get it from somewhere?
[21:35] <bearded-sully> was my question too long winded?
[21:35] <kklimonda> uyaffe_: you can still download a tar.gz and install it by yourself
[21:35] <yofel> uyaffe_: well, the bug says it doesn't work with mysql 5.5, so I doubt getting it from somewhere else will help you
[21:35] <mongo> kklimonda: are there tools to parse the order upstart events happen?
[21:35] <yofel> unless you downgrade mysql
[21:35] <kklimonda> bearded-sully: what do you mean by "default file locations"?
[21:36] <uyaffe_> How can I downgrade? I alsoow to install it found the MySQL GUI Tools.tar.gz but I don't have a clue on h
[21:36] <uyaffe_> I'm new to Ubuntu and Linux
[21:37] <mongo> really both /etc/network/interfaces and this should be an net-device-up event
[21:38] <bearded-sully> my "video" "pictures" etc folders that show up in the left side of nautilus
[21:38] <guntbert> uyaffe_: no offense: but why do you work with a beta system if you are new ?
[21:38] <kklimonda> uyaffe_: downgrading isn't supported
[21:38] <bearded-sully> I may have found something though
[21:38] <bearded-sully> symlinks?
[21:38] <yofel> mongo: well, networking.conf runs ifup -a and emits static-network-up
[21:38] <kklimonda> mongo: well, you can run upstart with --verbose afair and then you'll see all events in the log (I don't remember which one)
[21:38] <yofel> and net-device-up
[21:38] <jinjorge> uyaffe: not sure you are going to get a tutorial here on how to install a software package
[21:38] <kklimonda> there is no graph, but the log is quite readable
[21:38] <jinjorge> may want to google it
[21:38] <kklimonda> bearded-sully: you can edit $HOME/.config/user-dirs.dirs
[21:40] <uyaffe_> Ok, Thanks all.
[21:41] <mongo> kklimonda: I need to do that with shutdown, the refusing to reboot without a power cycle is a bigger problem
[21:41] <bearded-sully> thank you! Much easier than what I was looking at!
[21:42] <treebear> where are the logs for drive failures?
[21:42] <guntbert> treebear: all logs are under /var/log
[21:42] <treebear> ah
[21:42] <treebear> thanks
[21:43] <mongo> really I just just make upstart scripts and shove this in my PPA
[21:44] <mongo> my poor PPA, tried to get a arm cross compiler to upload there forever but I couldn't figure out bootstrap on the build  servers
[21:49] <mongo> hrm, upstart uses udev events for this, so that is probably what needs to happen, udev rules?
[21:54] <mongo> hrm yes, starting it earlier should work, this may be an easy conversion as it does shove it out as a net device in udev
[21:56] <metaph> hi evrybody
[21:58] <metaph> was forced to shut down when trying gnome-shell and after rebooting cannot go through the login screen!
[21:59] <treebar> hey guys
[21:59] <treebar> i did a terrible mistake
[21:59] <treebar> i removed  vmlinuz  file from my system
[21:59] <treebar> completely
[21:59] <treebar> even the  vmlinuz.old
[21:59] <treebar> what would happen if i reboot my machine now?
[21:59] <yofel> boot a live disk, chroot to the system and reinstall the kernel image package
[21:59] <metaph> now can only login as guest, even creating a new user with useradd doesnt work
[21:59] <yofel> treebar: it won't boot without a kernel
[22:00] <treebar> the initrd.img was not removed though
[22:00] <yofel> treebar: if you have the system still running just reinstall the kernel image
[22:00] <treebar> yeah it's still running
[22:00] <yofel> treebar: that's the initramfs, you still need the kernel itself (vmlinuz)
[22:00] <treebar> i'm on it right now
[22:00] <treebar> shit
[22:01] <treebar> is there a quick wy to reinstall the kernel now?
[22:01] <yofel> then reinstall linux-image-3.2.0-19-generic or what's current
[22:01] <treebar> i'm on Lubuntu 11.10
[22:01] <treebar> got any idea what the command would be?
[22:01] <yofel> wrong channel then, this is only for 12.04 support - but there it would be 3.0.0, and same procedure
[22:02] <yofel> apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-3.2.0-19-generic
[22:02] <DropsOfSerenity> does anyone know when the compiz patch is coming in that fixes the rebinding of the HUD  key problem with alt-tab?
[22:02] <DropsOfSerenity> the bug page says the fix is in compiz-core revision 3057, ubuntu is on 3035 at the moment, I'm wondering when 3057 will be included with the updates
[22:02] <yofel> using your kernel though - look at how initrd is named
[22:02] <yofel> treebar: wait though, *what* did you remove
[22:02] <yofel> ?
[22:03] <yofel>  /vmlinuz, or /boot/<something> ?
[22:03] <metaph> is there a way to restore the session without creating a new user?? dont know what happened, but cannot login. Even chrooting the partition from recovery mode to run upgrade & upgrade, in case there was some broken packages, didnt solve it
[22:03] <treebar> yofel: just /vmlinuz
[22:03] <treebar> and  /vmlinuz.old
[22:04] <yofel> treebar: those are just symlinks
[22:04] <yofel> for example: /vmlinuz -> boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-19-generic
[22:04] <yofel> for me
[22:04] <yofel> but reinstalling your kernel package should fix that too
[22:04] <treebar> so i can safely reboot my machine?
[22:04] <yofel> probably
[22:05] <yofel> I would still fix it though
[22:05] <treebar> will that file vmlinuz be recreated at the reboot?
[22:05] <yofel> no
[22:06] <yofel> treebar: what's the highest vmlinuz version in /boot ?
[22:08] <treebar> yofel: it's 3.0.0-16
[22:09] <yofel> treebar: sudo ln -s /boot/vmlinuz-3.0.0-16-generic /vmlinuz
[22:09] <treebar> thanks mate
[22:09]  * yofel isn't sure what even uses those files though
[22:10] <kklimonda> does anything actually use /vmlinuz ?
[22:10] <treebar> yofel: yuo are the best
[22:10] <kklimonda> grub is configured to point to /boot/vmlinuz-* directly
[22:10] <treebar> now vmlinuz is restored in /
[22:10] <treebar> thanks again
[22:47] <bandit5432> could some point me in the right direction for mainline kernel version 3.3  discussions?
[22:51] <kklimonda> bandit5432: what discussions do you have in mind?
[22:51] <bandit5432> kernel v3.3-precise does not recognize my ide optical drives any thoughts? v3.3-rc7-precise works fine
[22:53] <bandit5432>  as precise is still looking at shipping with 3.2 I was not sure where to ask
[22:54] <kklimonda> bandit5432: mainline kernels have bugzilla https://bugzilla.kernel.org/ and you can probably report the bug there
[22:54] <kklimonda> LKML is also a possibility, but first you'd have to do a git bisect to track a problem
[22:55] <bandit5432> well i always do bug reports like an idiot so i wanted to ask some where first
[22:57] <kklimonda> at this point it's an upstream problem and given a number of patches between rc7 and final release it should be rather simple to track it down
[22:58] <bandit5432> i will search the LKML and see if any one else is having issues
[22:58] <bandit5432> for a smart person yes
[22:59] <kklimonda> well, it's really a matter of doing a git bisect - it's not hard, but takes some time to learn and do that
[22:59] <bandit5432> git bisect i will go look that up
[23:12] <bandit5432> kklimonda,  thanks for the information I will see how this git bisect works although at the rate i am downloading it will be a while
[23:14] <kklimonda> bandit5432: in the meantime you can contact kernel devs on lkml, i think http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/lkml/reporting-bugs.html should still be an accurate description of what the report should have
[23:15] <bandit5432> kklimonda, will do
[23:27] <Dbm> Hello guys, ive need help. When i'm trying to install ubuntu 12.04 LTS i bootup via USB, all works fine till i get in narea to clear whole HDD and install fresh system. I got some Warning about /dev/sda msdos or something.
[23:31] <Dbm> anyone?
[23:41] <ironhalik> hmm, my intek 945 runs a whoopin 30 fps in glxgears
[23:41] <ironhalik> intel
[23:46] <Daekdroom> ironhalik, vsync
[23:48] <ironhalik> it would be at 60 with vsync
[23:48] <ironhalik> I guess
[23:48] <ironhalik> :>
[23:48] <Daekdroom> Unless it missed every single vblank while rendering.
[23:48] <Daekdroom> i.e. every frame takes two vblanks to render.
[23:49] <Daekdroom> Which is weird for glxgears, but might happen.
[23:49] <Daekdroom> Are you using the default 300x300 for the glxgears window?
[23:49] <ironhalik> yeah
[23:50] <kklimonda> there is a way to disable it
[23:50] <kklimonda> (vsync that is)
[23:51] <kklimonda> but I can't remember the correct name for the variable to set
[23:51] <ironhalik> yeah, Ill check it out when I resore my Xorg :>
[23:51] <Daekdroom> Why disable vsync?
[23:51] <ironhalik> just for testing
[23:52] <kklimonda> to see how slow is glxgears really running
[23:52] <ironhalik> if its vsync or some driver issue etc
[23:52] <ironhalik> you mean how _fast_ it is really running ;>
[23:52] <Daekdroom> I'd check glxinfo | grep OpenGL to see whether you're using software fallback for 3D rendering.
[23:52] <kklimonda> ah, it's vblank_mode=0
[23:52] <kklimonda> vblank_mode=0 glxgears will work
[23:52] <Daekdroom> It's the most straightforward way to see if there's anything wrong.
[23:53] <ironhalik> kk sec
[23:54] <ironhalik> well, it says it uses mesa 8.0.1
[23:54] <ironhalik> Mesa DRI Intel 945GM, 1.4 Mesa
[23:54] <ironhalik> without any extensions
[23:55] <kklimonda> I get whole 360 fps on this netbook
[23:55] <kklimonda> sounds about right
[23:55] <FernandoMiguel> kklimonda: p/
[23:55] <kklimonda> FernandoMiguel: wow, haven't seen you around in a while :)
[23:55] <kklimonda> FernandoMiguel: hey :)
[23:55] <FernandoMiguel> yeah
[23:55] <ironhalik> yup, with vblank overriden, glxgears gives 360 frames too
[23:57] <kklimonda> bah, my gpu isn't even strong enough to run unity :/
[23:57] <kklimonda> well, I guess an entire configuration is to blame
[23:58] <kklimonda> at least it gives me a reason to play with unity-3d
[23:58] <kklimonda> unity-2d even
[23:58] <FernandoMiguel> LOL
[23:58] <ironhalik> mine manages unity
[23:58] <ironhalik> somewhat manages ;>
[23:58] <bandit5432> depends on who you ask some would say that not running unity is a blessing
[23:58] <FernandoMiguel> even my Intel is more then enough
[23:59] <ironhalik> I'm wondering if I can squeeze some more apparen performance out of it


[12:18] <Valandil> hi Pygi :-)
[12:19] <Pygi> hi hi valandil
[12:21] <Pygi> what's up?
[12:22] <Unfun> I rolled out 40 ubuntu servers on friday.
[12:22] <Unfun> Running in production.
[12:22] <Pygi> hehe, good ;)
[12:22] <Unfun> Replacing debian sarge
[12:23] <Pygi> heh, good
[12:51] <maswan> Unfun: We did 100 last week. :)
[01:02] <Pygi> maswan: good ;)
[01:03] <Pygi> great job in promoting ubuntu server ;)
[01:03] <Pygi> just wait 'till dapper ;)
[01:03] <Pygi> ubuntu server will rock the world ;)
[01:03] <Pygi> hehe
[01:04] <maswan> Well, I'm already running dapper on a workstation
[01:05] <maswan> It's pretty buggy though
[01:05] <Pygi> heh, I know :/
[01:06] <Pygi> I will get better
[01:06] <Pygi> and the server edition won't be like the one in current version
[01:06] <Pygi> it will have much modifications
[01:06] <Pygi> but I can't tell you all, it wouldn't be a suprise then, wouldn't it? ;D
[01:14] <Valandil> Hi all :)
[01:15] <Valandil> sorry, had to carry around baby ;)
[01:17] <Pygi> hehe,np
[01:17] <Valandil> sometimes I hate user-interfaces
[01:18] <Valandil> this crappy 'nice looking of program-output' :-(
[01:18] <Pygi> heh
[01:19] <Valandil> Pygi: You know a clean clearsreen in c?
[01:19] <Valandil> +c
[01:19] <Valandil> I used  printf("\033[2J")
[01:20] <Valandil> but it just 'scrolls up' the console
[01:20] <Pygi> heh
[01:21] <Valandil> I never needed something like this before :(
[01:22] <Valandil> bah - be it as it may, I leave this liek that
[01:23] <Pygi> heh
[02:34] <troy> the ubuntu brown doesn't look half bad in KDE :P
[03:28] <Unfun> anyone know what cards raidutil supports for actual controller maintenance?
[03:41] <Pygi> hi hi
[07:55] <dim> hiall
[07:55] <Unfun> hi
[07:55] <dim> is there any info anywhere about how the specific server distro is different than normal breezy installed with the server option?
[07:56] <Unfun> i don't think it is different
[07:56] <Unfun> but i could be wrong
[07:56] <dim> hmm
[07:56] <spike> dim: 5.10 won't be any different, differences will come with dapper (devel only atm)
[07:57] <Unfun> whats the eta on dapper?
[07:57] <Unfun> dapper-server that is
[07:58] <spike> depends on what u expect to see in it I guess. ie, I doubt grsec will be included, or things like that
[07:58] <spike> and to me, that won't be really finished untill all that stuff gets in
[07:58] <spike> but afaik april 2006 is the scheduled date for a stable release, not sure what will be in
[08:01] <Pygi> hehe, there will be a *lot* of differences in dapper server
[08:06] <dim> so ubuntu is basically forking its server and desktop distros right now?
[08:06] <Pygi> not actually, it will still be a same project, just with *differences*
[08:13] <Pygi> matt, welcome ;)
[09:04] <Pygi> welcome zenrox
[09:47] <neuralis> Pygi: a lot of differences? like what? different kernel configuration, different set of default packages on the cd, and a metapackage.
[09:47] <neuralis> unless there's something else that i don't know about, that's certainly not a lot of differences.
[09:48] <Pygi> neuralis: see the "*" ?? And I ceartinly ain't gonna argue with you *once* again
[09:49] <neuralis> Pygi: yes, the asterisks make it seem like it's an even bigger 'lot' of differences.
[09:50] <neuralis> Pygi: every time i ask about a claim you make, you see it as arguing, but don't answer my question. that's not productive communication.
[09:50] <neuralis> for all practical purposes, other than the different kernel configuration, ubuntu server is much like kubuntu or xubuntu: just a different set of installed packages.
[09:52] <Pygi> ...
[09:56] <neuralis> precisely.
[09:56] <Pygi> k
[10:00] <Pygi> welcome fabian


[03:51] <thumper> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~thumper/launchpad/fix-mailman-excessive-queries/+merge/39335 anyone?
[04:03] <bac> hi thumper, i'll look at it
[04:03] <thumper> bac: thanks
[04:03] <thumper> check out this: 6278  OOPS-1759XMLP1  MailingListApplication:MailingListAPIView
[04:03] <thumper> 6278 statements
[04:47] <bac> hi thumper -- really interesting branch...amazing savings
[04:48] <thumper> bac: should be
[04:48] <bac> i got a little caught up with  acknowledgeMessagesWithStats thinking it updated all in the message_set
[04:48] <bac> but then i figured it out
[04:48] <bac> only one issue.  i think you meant  acknowledgeMessagesWithStats to be  acknowledgeMessagesWithStatus
[04:49] <thumper> ah... yeah
[04:49] <thumper> copy and paste FTW, at least the code is consistent
[04:51] <thumper> fixed typo, and pushing
[04:52] <thumper> bac: thanks
[12:13] <jtv> adeuring: perhaps you could review my branch?  I'd prefer not to wait for an OCR because I believe the next OCR is me.  :-)
[12:17] <adeuring> jtv: give me 30-40 minutes for lunch, then I'll look
[12:17] <jtv> adeuring: that's wonderful, thanks!
[12:50] <jtv> leonardr: I'm expecting Abel back in a few; he says he can look at mine if needed.
[12:50] <leonardr> jtv: ok, thanks
[13:35] <leonardr> StevenK, which branch do you want reviewed? i don't see it
[13:35] <StevenK> leonardr: It already has been, sorry.
[13:35] <leonardr> ok, np
[13:35] <leonardr> jtv, want me to take care of yours?
[13:36] <jtv> leonardr: time is short now, so yes please!
[13:36] <StevenK> I threw it at ec2 from davidm's hotel room, but was then unable to connect to IRC from my own room
[13:36] <leonardr> jtv: ok
[13:36] <jtv> thanks
[13:36] <adeuring> leonardr, jtv: I'm more or less done with the review
[13:36] <jtv> ah!
[13:37] <jtv> In that case, thanks leonardr but your services are no longer required.  :-)
[13:37] <leonardr> great
[13:38] <adeuring> jtv: only a minor issue: doc/potmsgset.txt has the new text "+The "suggestive templates" cache is up to date." (line 21). shouldn't this be something like "update the cache"?
[13:39] <jtv> adeuring: well it's supposed to be narrative, not code comments.  (And for a code comment, that would be a bad one. :-)
[13:39] <jtv> It's really just stating the expected situation, not anything interesting that the test does.
[13:40] <adeuring> jtv: well, ok. But I inderstand this as a statement "the cache indeed up to date", while you define a helper function which does an update. What about a comment inside the definition od the function?
[13:41] <jtv> adeuring: any ideas on what it should say?
[13:41] <jtv> adeuring: ah, this is the one doctest where I need the function more than once.
[13:41] <adeuring> jtv: argh, I missed the existing doc string... never mind. Let's leave it as it is
[13:42] <jtv> Well _of course_ there's a docstring.  :-)
[13:42] <adeuring> jtv: yeah... doesn'r seem to be my best day...
[13:42] <jtv> Well you're helping me out with a review.  That's definitely a good deed for the day.
[13:43] <adeuring> anyway, r=me then. Just a parnoid question: This cache is already populated via cron job or whatever?
[13:51] <leonardr> jcsackett, i'm going to review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/hidden-project-configuration-636000/+merge/39306
[13:52] <jcsackett> leonardr: sounds good. i was going to throw it in the queue sometime this morning anyway. :-)
[13:54] <leonardr> all right
[13:55] <jtv> adeuring: thanks again
[13:56] <adeuring> jtv: welcome. just a paranoid question:; this cache is updated in production on a regular basis, I assume?
[13:56] <jtv> adeuring: yes, daily.
[13:57] <jtv> We had a replication problem with it last cycle, so good thing we phased it.
[13:57] <jtv> Turns out if you don't have foreign keys pointing into the replication set (or the other way, I guess) your table is not replicated by default.
[13:57] <adeuring> interesting
[13:58] <jtv> Not the word I used at the time.  :-)
[14:25] <leonardr> jcsackett: i'm sure you have a good reason (?), but i'm honor-bound to ask why you seem to have copied a bunch of javascript into pillar.js. is there any way we can refactor more than toggle_collapsible?
[14:26] <jcsackett> leonardr: you mean refactor more than activate_collapsibles? toggle_collapsible was the one i didn't touch and simply sought to use with divs.
[14:27] <leonardr> jcsackett: i think we're saying the same thing. you're reusing Y.lp.toggle_collapsible
[14:27] <leonardr> but that code is at the end of a huge chunk of code that looks copied from somewhere else (eg. it's got a gmb XXX from over a year ago in it)
[14:28] <leonardr> what changes did you make to the code after copying it? can we refactor those changes?
[14:30] <jcsackett> leonardr: there's another function called simply activate_collapsible in lp.js that this is borrowed from; i tried refactoring it initially, but it's very specific to one set of expectations and my attempts to refactor led to horror.
[14:30] <jcsackett> the majority of changes in this are to set it to work with divs, not fieldsets, and then simplify based on the small set of expectations this has. much of the comments were left b/c they were still applicable.
[14:31] <leonardr> i well know the horror of refactoring javascript
[14:31]  * jcsackett smiles.
[14:32] <jcsackett> it reached the point where i had a choice of two similar and parsible functions or one terrifying (to me at least) one.
[14:33] <leonardr> jcsackett: at the least, we should track the technical debt. can you file a bug mentioning the two places where there's similar code, and add an XXX? that way if we figure out how to refactor in the future it'll be clear where the work lies
[14:34] <jcsackett> leonardr: certainly i can do that; i'll probably assign myself the bug for honor's sake too--i wasn't satisfied with this, but it seemed the best of bad alternatives.
[14:53] <leonardr> jcsackett: indulge my laziness and tell me what tal:condition="view/configuration_links" does? why would that condition be false?
[14:57] <leonardr> jcsackett: it looks like it would be false if you had a view of a pure IPillar rather than anything more specific?
[14:57] <jcsackett> jcsackett: predates this branch; i can't return false but it can return none--it provides the configuration links if you can see them. if you can't see them then you can't edit things, i think.
[14:57] <jcsackett> or actually not None, but an empty list.
[14:57] <jcsackett> i think it also sets up some stuff about what you should see (e.g. configuration status).
[14:59] <leonardr> ok, permission, that makes sense
[15:01] <leonardr> jcsackett, similar refactoring question about head_epilogue. how much work is it to reuse the collapsible and collapsed styles (making them general styles instead of <div>-specific)?
[15:02] <jcsackett> leonardr: ah, that shouldn't be too hard; i just thought based on some other pages if it only applied to one page that's where we put it. i'll move it.
[15:03] <leonardr> jcsackett: it won't apply to one page if you reuse it for the fieldset collapsing code?
[15:03] <leonardr> if i'm wrong, then don't move it
[15:03] <jcsackett> leonardr: the fieldset already has styles set that aren't quite the same.
[15:04] <leonardr> jcsackett: ok, don't bother, but add it to the bug so we can take another look later
[15:04] <jcsackett> leonardr: dig.
[15:08] <benji> leonardr: the exception you showed me on the keyring branch yesterday also happens on launchpadlib trunk
[15:08] <leonardr> benji: well, damn
[15:08] <leonardr> i'll look into it after i finish this review
[15:13] <leonardr> jcsackett: this question may expose my ignorance more than anything else, but...
[15:13] <leonardr> lines 387-388
[15:14] <leonardr> client.click(link=u"Configuration links") triggers some javascript. does it then do anything to call waits.forPageLoad? surely the page has already loaded?
[15:14] <leonardr> or does forPageLoad do something else?
[15:17] <leonardr> maybe mars knows better than me -^
[15:19] <leonardr> jcsackett: i had a question while you were out
 jcsackett: this question may expose my ignorance more than anything else, but...
 lines 387-388
 client.click(link=u"Configuration links") triggers some javascript. does it then do anything to call waits.forPageLoad? surely the page has already loaded?
 or does forPageLoad do something else?
[15:20] <leonardr> also, do the windmill tests run in a deterministic order? can you be sure that test_configured_starts_collapsed runs after test_not_fully_configured_starts_shown?
[15:21] <jcsackett> for the first question: so, there's no generic "wait" thing in windmill that i could find, and the test would fail because the class wasn't actually removed (or added depending on test) when it then went to test it.
[15:21] <jcsackett> there's wait.sleep() but that's documented as pausing the browser, which isn't really appropriate.
[15:22] <jcsackett> i can add a comment explaining that it's a generic wait, and as i look at it i should decrease the timeout.
[15:22] <leonardr> jcsackett: sounds good. i bet mars has the answer
[15:23] <jcsackett> for the second question: it doesn't matter (or it shouldn't) which order they run in; since the product is created in setup, each test should start with a product that's not configured.
[15:25] <leonardr> jcsacket: if that's the case, it looks like both products are created with the same name ('hidden-configs'). how is that possible?
[15:28] <jcsackett> leonardr: in my experience all tests seem to have a built in teardown that destroys things created in setUp.
[15:28] <leonardr> jcsackett: ok, as long as it works
[15:28] <jcsackett> it works in many other unittests; i'm not sure about windmill.
[15:28] <jcsackett> would mars be the person to check that with?
[15:32] <leonardr> mars: i guess. my concern, now that i've dug through the code, is that the windmill testing layer doesn't inherit from FunctionalLayer, which is where i'd imagine such cleanup code to be
[15:33] <leonardr> it's not in TestCaseWithFactory, unless the act of creating a LaunchpadObjectFactory() in setup obliterates any objects created by any other factory
[15:33] <leonardr> jcsackett: sorry, misaddressed to mars -^
[15:34] <jcsackett> leonardr: i can add a teardown method to be sure.
[15:34] <lifeless> leonardr: old objects are cleaned up by the db reset at the end of the test
[15:34] <jcsackett> score.
[15:34] <lifeless> so DatabaseLayer
[15:35] <leonardr> jcsackett: and i've confirmed that setUp is run before each test
[15:35] <leonardr> so you're fine
[15:35] <lifeless> jcsackett: btw tearDown is (roughly speaking) deprecated
[15:35] <lifeless> jcsackett: its generally much better to use addCleanup (but not always - explore them both, use your judgement)
[15:36] <jcsackett> lifless: dig. in my experience so far it's all just nicely taken care of.
[15:36] <jcsackett> lifeless, rather. ^
[15:36] <leonardr> jcsackett: this is the kind of thing you get when i review launchpad branches because most of the time i'm off in my own little world
[15:37] <jcsackett> leonardr: all good. it helps to have someone examining my assumptions. :)
[15:49] <leonardr> jcsackett: r=me with minor changes
[15:49] <jcsackett> leonardr: cool, thanks!
[15:49] <jcsackett> i'll make those changes shortly.
[15:50] <leonardr> mars, do you want a review of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mars/launchpad/add-profiling-feature-flag/+merge/39179 or do you need to do some work to address lifeless's comment?
[17:04] <bigjools> leonardr: hi, I've got a small branch up for review that exposes /builders on the API if you can take it?
[17:05] <leonardr> bigjools, sure
[17:07] <bigjools> leonardr: thank you
[17:22] <leonardr> bigjools: "(usually a member of the buildd-admins team)" that seems specific to the way we use launchpad rather than the code itself. is that okay?
[17:34] <bigjools> leonardr: buildd-admins are a celebrity in LP
[17:34] <leonardr> bigjools: ok, you're good then
[17:34] <leonardr> i just have some minor wording suggestions
[17:35] <bigjools> sure thing
[17:42] <leonardr> bigjools: r=me with very minor changes, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/launchpad/api-expose-builders/+merge/39379
[17:42] <bigjools> leonardr: great, thanks
[17:43] <bigjools> leonardr: can you mark your review approved, I think you just landed a comment only.
[17:44] <leonardr> oops
[17:44] <bigjools> thanks for the suggestiond
[17:47] <bigjools> leonardr: FWIW it looks like lp_attributes already sorts in a good way
[17:47] <leonardr> bigjools: oh, i guess i used to be smarter than i am now
[17:47] <bigjools> :)
[17:47] <bigjools> it puts the boilerplate stuff first then the sorted attributes
[18:58] <leonardr> rockstar, can i get a quick review from you?
[18:58] <leonardr> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~leonardr/launchpadlib/fix-token-authorization/+merge/39391
[18:58] <rockstar> leonardr, it may be lossy, as I'm at UDS.
[18:59] <leonardr> rockstar: ok, if mars responds in the next 5 minutes and says he can do it never mind. otherwise, it doesn't have to be super quick
[18:59] <leonardr> (or if someone else can take it)
[18:59] <rockstar> leonardr, the code looks good, reading the description now.
[18:59] <mars> leonardr, ?
[19:00] <leonardr> mars, just seeing if you want to take a review, since i don't think you're at uds
[19:00] <mars> leonardr, sure
[19:00] <mars> I'm in and out, but I'll look - 38 lines, that's a good size :)
[19:01] <rockstar> mars, I've got it.
[19:02] <rockstar> (If it was any bigger, I would just get it now)
[19:02] <leonardr> ok, rockstar has it
[19:02] <mars> k
[19:02] <mars> thanks rockstar
[19:02]  * rockstar high fives mars and yells "TEAMWORK!"
[19:03] <mars> rockstar, btw, if you see Martin Pool, ask him if he has a moment to review my Feature Flags Test Fixture branch - people would love to see that land
[19:03] <rockstar> mars, okay.  I'll keep an eye out.
[19:03] <mars> thank you
[19:29] <benji> sounds good
[20:56] <benji> leonardr: almost forgot: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~benji/wadllib/missing-files/+merge/39400
[20:59] <leonardr> benji: r=me
[20:59] <benji> leonardr: cool; shall I do a release?
[20:59] <leonardr> benji: yes, please. let me know if you're missing anything from the process
[20:59] <benji> k
[22:03] <benji> leonardr: I've responded to your keyring question/issue.
[22:03] <leonardr> benji, thanks
[22:04] <leonardr> benji: that makes a lot of sense, thanks
[22:04] <leonardr> i'm eod but i'll review your changes in a bit
[22:28] <leonardr> benji: how tough would it be to test the storage and retrieval of the same application name w/two different service roots?
[22:29] <benji> leonardr: trivial; shall I add that?
[22:29] <leonardr> benji: yes please
[22:34] <benji> leonardr: test added
[22:36] <benji> leonardr: oh, I need to be granted access to wadllib on PyPI to complete the release
[22:40] <leonardr> benji: sure
[22:49] <leonardr> benji, you are benji on pypi?
[22:50] <benji> leonardr: yep
[22:55] <leonardr> benji, the role is yours
[22:55] <benji> thanks, the upload worked
[22:59] <leonardr> benji, i can't parse "(this assertion is of the test mechanism, not a test assertion)."
[23:00] <leonardr> this assertion is veriyging the test mechanism?
[23:00] <benji> exactly; I'm verifying my assumption that there will only be two sets of credentials stored in the fake keyring
[23:00] <leonardr> benji: let me run some additional assertions by you
[23:00] <leonardr> 1. the fake keyring starts out empty
[23:01] <leonardr> 2. the application key has a specific form incorporating the application name and the hostname (?)
[23:02] <leonardr> i was hoping for #2 but i'm willing to be convinced it's not necessary/ not appropriate to test here
[23:02] <benji> 1 seems reasonable
[23:04] <benji> at first I thought 2 was overconstraining things, but we do want to be sure the keys remain reable between releases of launchpadlib, so it makes sense
[23:04] <benji> I also want to add an assertion that the application name is include in the key
[23:05] <leonardr> isn't that part of 2?
[23:06] <benji> indirectly, but I think all three (app name, server name, overall structure) are important
[23:06] <benji> and it's cheap to test them all, so...
[23:07] <leonardr> ok, go for it
[23:11] <benji> leonardr: done
[23:14]  * leonardr looks
[23:20] <leonardr> benji: r=me, though i don't think we should merge this yet
[23:21] <benji> leonardr: k


[09:30] <cccangel> hello.
[09:31] <cccangel> im in my first semester of college going to school to be a software programmer and I am trying to specialize and put emphasis on learning stuff that would better help linux technologies and help me find a job in the field supporting linux technology.
[09:37] <JanC> hello, cccangel, nice goal ☺
[09:38] <cccangel> im in both  this dev channel and ubuntustudio mainly because i expressed curiousity in learning some new things so i can contribute
[09:39] <cccangel> i learned Visual C# and Java along with web dev but now I love ubuntu as a replacement and see its potential and ...
[09:39] <cccangel> btw i am doing a speech project and its going to be an advocate speech for ubuntu 12.04
[18:43] <commandoline> Hi. I'm currently writing an open-source PyQt4 application. It uses gettext for translations (because Qt's system isn't supported by Launchpad). As far as I understand, the 'default' way in Ubuntu is to store them into /usr/share/locale/ . Does that mean I also need to place the files there while developing? And how to maintain compatibility with other OS's (i.e. mainly windows and mac)?
[18:44] <commandoline> another question behind it is: What's 'the recommended' file structure for a project like this?
[18:49] <jalcine> Which other files are you referring to?
[18:50] <commandoline> well, the mo files normally go in /usr/share/locale
[18:50] <commandoline> but when I'm developing and want to test some translations, where should I store them then?
[18:52] <commandoline> somewhere inside my project, or is it 'normal' to just put them inside the /usr/share/locale dir?
[18:57] <jalcine> After installing and what-not, they should go within /usr/share/locale, but if you're just trying to test it out in the app, use QTranslator to switch the app's language.
[18:57] <jalcine> It should pick it up.
[18:58] <commandoline> I'm using gettext, but yes, gettext would see the files in that directory. So while testing, I should just place the mo files manually into /usr/share/locale?
[19:17] <JackyAlcine> Sorry for my latency, but yes.
[19:18] <commandoline> ok, thanks JackyAlcine :)