[00:01] <bjsnider> good thing he stayed around long enough for someone to answer
[00:03] <itaylor57> hes busy griping in ubuntu channel
[00:20] <penguin42> Daekdroom: You mean you don't get paid....
[00:20] <Daekdroom> penguin42, well, there are people getting paid to work on Ubuntu, but not specifically to answer questions in here.
[00:21] <penguin42> Daekdroom: I know! I was only joking!
[01:46] <Hobart> Just did an install from the Precise Beta image onto a completely-zero'ed new SSD, telling it to use the whole disk.  Moved the SSD to a new computer, trying to boot off of it, I get Grub loading to a menu fine, grub's "ls" is able to see the ...
[01:46] <Hobart> ... partition fine. But the kernel boots, and gets timeout waiting for root device, and drops me to a completely worthless initramfs busybox that has no keyboard driver loaded (kernel diag msgs show it sees USB keyboard removal/attachment, but no ...
[01:46] <Hobart> ... keystrokes go to busybox)
[01:59] <Hobart> any suggestions where to start troubleshooting?  Haven't found anything relevant in Google yet.
[03:06] <Bobbeh> Hello
[03:06] <Bobbeh> I need help or at least confirmation
[03:08] <Bobbeh> I have been having trouble getting unity 3d to work, so about a week ago I completely removed 11.10 and installed 12.04. I installed the latest ati catalyst driver and set everything up and it still didnt work. Then i left it and went back to windows. 2 days ago I came back to see if it got updated or anything, and i saw that catalyst updated to 12.2 so i installed it. After installing it and rebooting. Unity finally worked, I was
[03:09] <Bobbeh> I played with it all day but I cant rememebr what exactly broke it, but i think installing the updates from update manager did
[03:09] <Bobbeh> so I completely removed it and tryed again, and again, and again. For the past 2 days I have been trying everything I possibly could to get it to work again but its not
[03:10] <Bobbeh> Do i have a chance at it working or did updates break it for good until its fixed again?
[03:11] <Bobbeh> Anyone there?
[03:11] <TheToff> Bobbeh, I was in here earlier trying to get help
[03:11] <TheToff> Nothing
[03:11] <Bobbeh> Wait what?
[03:12] <Bobbeh> I dont know what to try anymore to get it working
[03:12] <TheToff> I hear you
[03:12] <Bobbeh> My exact problem is that after logging onto it, about 10 seconds in
[03:12] <Bobbeh> The panels and everything show, but clicking does nothing, I cant open programs or anything its just frozen
[03:12] <TheToff> No one is here to answer.  Is that right?
[03:15] <log> Bobbeh: Hi. :P
[03:15] <TheToff> You can copy the terminal output
[03:15] <TheToff> or if you know the name of the file, you can grep it
[03:15] <Bobbeh> Its in tty1
[03:15] <TheToff> log: lol
[03:15] <TheToff> Okay.  It broke the entire graphics.
[03:22] <Bobbeh> lol
[03:22] <log> Had to clean install Ubuntu just to be able to use it again.
[03:22] <Bobbeh> it loves my card
[03:23] <Bobbeh> makes everything much faster
[03:23] <Bobbeh> maybe i have an old open source driver version?
[03:23] <log> Hmm, what's the package name?
[03:23] <Bobbeh> i have no clue
[03:23] <Bobbeh> xorg or something
[03:24] <Bobbeh> i have to walk my dog real quick brb
[03:24] <log> !package ati
[03:24] <log> !package radeon
[03:24] <log> Er.
[03:24] <log> !info ati
[03:24] <log> !info radeon
[03:24] <log> Weird.
[03:25] <log> Oh.
[03:25] <log> !info xserver-xorg-video-ati
[03:25] <log> Bobbeh: ^ Latest version.
[03:27] <log> The open source drive works perfectly on my laptop. However, I don't do gaming in Ubuntu. I have a 6630M.
[03:29] <Bobbeh> k im back
[03:29] <Bobbeh> checking what verison now
[03:30] <Bobbeh> hey how do i check?
[03:31] <log> dpkg -s xserver-xorg-video-ati
[03:31] <Bobbeh> i have latest
[03:31] <log> Hmm, weird. Which card do you have?
[03:31] <Bobbeh> hd xpress 4200
[03:32] <Bobbeh> do you know what bgcachefile is, cause its the only error i get
[03:32] <log> Where do you get that error?
[03:32] <log> Upon boot?
[03:33] <Bobbeh> no when i run unity --reset
[03:33] <Bobbeh> on my frozen unity screen
[03:33] <Bobbeh> in tty1
[03:33]  * log checks if he gets any errors.
[03:34] <log> I get that also.
[03:34] <log> ERROR 2012-03-10 22:33:31 unity.bghash BGHash.cpp:554 could not open file (/home/logan/.cache/unity/bgcachefile): Failed to open file '/home/logan/.cache/unity/bgcachefile': No such file or directory
[03:34] <Bobbeh> hmm
[03:34] <Bobbeh> yeah thats it
[03:34] <Bobbeh> I also get a warnign about hud
[03:34] <Bobbeh> and about glib-gobject
[03:35] <Bobbeh> Im gonna try using the open source driver one time
[03:35] <Bobbeh> since i actually havent tryed in a while
[03:35] <log> Ok.
[03:35] <log> It might be worth a shot.
[03:35] <log> Since the AMD drivers technically aren't supported.
[03:35] <log> And you can report a bug for the open source one if you have issues. :)
[03:38] <phunyguy> is there a way to add music to your library in rhythymbox and have it actually copy the music to your library via rhythymbox?
[03:38] <phunyguy> i select import, and it just adds the music to the db
[03:41] <Bobbeh> k ima reset and try
[03:41] <Bobbeh> brb
[03:41] <log> Ok.
[03:46] <phuckit> !nick
[03:46] <phuckit> !register
[03:47] <phuckit> !register /nick JesusChristSuperstar
[03:47] <phunyguy> wow
[03:48] <Bobbeh> k im back
[03:48] <Bobbeh> it gave me pretty much the exact same thing as the ati drivers
[03:49] <Bobbeh> except right after running unity --reset, it gave me like 6 gtk errors
[03:49] <Bobbeh> warnings* sorry
[03:51] <Bobbeh> log u still there?
[03:51] <log> Yeah.
[03:51] <log> Ah.
[03:51] <log> So it froze up, you're saying?
[03:51] <Bobbeh> it did the same thing as with the driver
[03:51] <Bobbeh> so im guessing it doesnt matter if i use ati's or open source
[03:51] <Bobbeh> except i had 6 gtk warnings
[03:52] <Bobbeh> but the panels showed up and froze just like ati's driver
[03:52] <Bobbeh> everything was generally the same
[03:52] <Bobbeh> im starting to think compiz is to blame
[03:53] <Bobbeh> hey how did you copy that error that one time, where is the log?
[03:53] <Bobbeh> or how do i copy tty1?
[03:53] <log> I'm here.
[03:53] <log> Wait, what?
[03:54] <snadge> unity window decorator is broken
[03:54] <log> Bobbeh: It was in Terminal.
[03:54] <snadge> so i use unity2d
[03:54] <Bobbeh> oh
[03:54] <log> Bobbeh: You might want to try a different GUI, like snadge suggested.
[03:54] <Bobbeh> what you mean?
[03:54] <log> s/GUI/DE/
[03:55] <Bobbeh> Im using unity2d right now
[03:55] <log> Oh, it's happening in 2D also?
[03:55] <Bobbeh> but its boring and i hate it
[03:55] <Bobbeh> no it dosnt happen in 2d
[03:55] <snadge> its a bit like that
[03:55] <log> Try KDE if you want "not boring."
 :P
[03:58] <snadge> haha
[03:58] <Bobbeh> me too
[03:58] <log> Probably because bugs/crashes are fixed more quickly.
[03:58] <Bobbeh> 12.04 has my mouse working correctly, I had unity working at one point, and just feels less buggy
[03:59] <damo22> can someone tell me is unity gone in 12.04 i dont want to download it just to find out
[03:59] <Bobbeh> its not
[03:59] <log> damo22: Still there. Not going away any time soon.
[03:59] <Bobbeh> still here
[03:59] <phunyguy> you are more than welcome to contribute some working code.
[03:59] <Bobbeh> haha you're phuny
[03:59] <damo22> unity is such a pos i am considering moving to debian
[03:59] <log> damo22: There are other DEs available for Ubuntu.
[03:59] <log> You don't have to use Unity.
[04:00] <phunyguy> you can also use regular gnome3 in ubuntu
[04:00] <Bobbeh> oh log, does gnome work for you?
[04:00] <Bobbeh> I get the same thing as unity
[04:00] <log> gnome-shell?
[04:00] <Bobbeh> yeah
[04:00] <damo22> i have tried doing that but the default themes look crap in gnome shell
[04:00] <Bobbeh> the newest one
[04:00] <phunyguy> so dont use the default theme
[04:00] <log> gnome-shell looks like crap on my computer.
[04:00] <log> Like, nothing like the Gnome3 screenshots.
[04:01] <log> I think Ambience doesn't work or something.
[04:01] <Bobbeh> it deos the same thing as unity for me, the top bar shows but i cant click anything
[04:01] <damo22> something is broken in gnome shell its sluggish and looks awful
[04:01] <Bobbeh> kde is huge, taking forever
[04:01] <log> damo22++
[04:01] <log> Bobbeh: Yes, yes it is. Would you rather have something more lightweight?
[04:01] <log> There's also XFCE, LXDE...
[04:01] <Bobbeh> idk
[04:02] <log> xubuntu-desktop and lubuntu-desktop, respectively, are the package names for those
[04:02] <Bobbeh> I like unity but obvioiusly thats not wokring
[04:02] <log> Very lightweight DEs.
[04:02] <Bobbeh> I hate lubuntu
[04:02] <Bobbeh> Ill try xubunut
[04:02] <log> Try XFCE, you might like it.
[04:02] <Bobbeh> k
[04:02] <phunyguy> meh xfce gave me problems
[04:02] <phunyguy> lol
[04:02] <phunyguy> especially when customizing the look
[04:02] <Bobbeh> its beta
[04:02] <Bobbeh> deal with it...lol jk
[04:03] <damo22> i dont feel the need to downgrade to a lightweight release just because gnome minus unity doenst work properly in ubuntu.... debian will let me install gnome3
[04:03] <Bobbeh> whats the diff between debian and ubuntu
[04:03] <Bobbeh> im  not going to try it cuz i dont have cds or flash drives
[04:04] <Bobbeh> and as far as i know there is no wubi like installer for it
[04:04] <damo22> different distro, more flexibility
[04:04] <log> The two are very similar.
[04:04] <Bobbeh> thats what i thought
[04:04] <log> Debian releases are more spread apart.
[04:04] <Bobbeh> I cant even tell a difference
[04:04] <phunyguy> i'm not talking about the beta... lol
[04:05] <log> Debian doesn't coddle you as much.
[04:05] <log> Less hardware support by default, I believe.
[04:05] <Bobbeh> that sucketh
[04:05] <Bobbeh> ive known ubuntu too long
[04:05] <log> I could be wrong, though... It's just based on my friends' experiences with it.
[04:05] <Bobbeh> if it had a wubi like installer to dual boot with windows
[04:05] <Bobbeh> i would try it
[04:05] <phunyguy> i started as a red hat guy, and now fedora is a pile.
[04:06] <phunyguy> :)
[04:06] <log> Bobbeh: I've tried switching from Ubuntu, but I've just become so accustomed to APT, etc., that I can't get away from it.  I always get help when I need help, and I never feel scared to comment on bugs, etc.  :P
[04:09] <Bobbeh> being 17 sucks
[04:09] <Bobbeh> life just sucks in general
[04:10] <Bobbeh> Ok, when you think about childhood memories do you get this unique feeling?
[04:10] <Bobbeh> Remember when 5 minutes felt like an hour?
[04:10] <phunyguy> i was 16 in 1996...
[04:10] <Bobbeh> i was born in 1996
[04:10]  * phunyguy feels old
[04:11] <phunyguy> and yes 16-17 sucks.   no freedom.
[04:11] <log> Well, I have a car.
[04:11] <Bobbeh> phuny, have you turned into an adult yet?
[04:11] <Bobbeh> Im too poor to afford a car
[04:11] <Bobbeh> hah!
[04:11] <Bobbeh> lol jk
[04:11] <Bobbeh> sucks for the people who really are too poor
[04:11] <Bobbeh> but i havent gotten my liscense yet
[04:12] <phunyguy> meh... adult-hood is overrated
[04:12] <phunyguy> the only good thing is if you have a good career.
[04:12] <Bobbeh> honestly true adults are different
[04:12] <phunyguy> I got lucky and do.
[04:12] <Bobbeh> children live, and take in everything as a new experience
[04:12] <phunyguy> did some Navy time, etc.
[04:12] <Bobbeh> teens want to be children again
[04:13] <Bobbeh> QUICK, kdm or lightdm?
[04:13] <log> ?
[04:13] <phunyguy> for KDE, kdm
[04:13] <Bobbeh> the install of kubuntu just finished
[04:13] <Bobbeh> and its asking whicih
[04:13] <log> Oh.
[04:13] <Bobbeh> ok thanks
[04:13] <phunyguy> sucker...
[04:13] <log> "LightDM will probably replace KDM in Kubuntu 12.04"
[04:13] <Bobbeh> ...
[04:13] <Bobbeh> too late now
[04:14] <log> Haha. I'm sure both are fine.
[04:14] <log> KDM is probably more stable.
[04:14] <Bobbeh> lol
[04:14] <Bobbeh> k
[04:14] <phunyguy> :)
[04:14] <Bobbeh> http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/
[04:15] <Bobbeh> dont read that, waste of your time
[04:16] <Bobbeh> omg 90% of the chat is bobbeh
[04:16] <Bobbeh> ima slow down on the talking
[04:16] <phunyguy> it happens
[04:16] <phunyguy> because this is a support channel.
[04:16] <phunyguy> there is an off-topic variant...
[04:16] <Bobbeh> ikr, im just blabbing
[04:17] <Bobbeh> this one time i was playing an online game, and i started talking to some random, and he ended up telling me he had a wife
[04:17] <Bobbeh> and i was like, does it feel nice to have sex with her?
[04:18] <phunyguy> tread lightly
[04:18] <Bobbeh> and at first he gave me a lecture about how its personal
[04:18] <Bobbeh> and then he was like, yes it is nice
[04:18] <Bobbeh> true or not?
[04:18] <Fyodorovna> Bobbeh, this is a family channel, and precise support #ubuntu-offtopic is for chatter.
[04:19] <phunyguy> I would imagine if it wasnt, then there would be an iminent divorce
[04:19] <Bobbeh> ok fyodo
[04:19] <Bobbeh> kde just finished also so ill brb
[04:19] <phunyguy> cya in quassel
[04:19] <phunyguy> or whatever kde has now
[04:23] <phunyguy> so since the new default media player for ubuntu is rhythymbox, I need some help.  I like Banshee, but I like to stay with what is 100% supported.  Is there a way to import music to your library with rhythymbox and have it actually copy the files to your library folder?
[04:24] <phunyguy> currently it only adds the music to the database, keeping it in the original path
[04:35] <almoxarife> who used to use dnsmasq who knows how to make the changes needed to 12.04 to get dnsmasq running as previous? kubuntu edition
[04:35] <almoxarife> I like the idea of builtin dnsmasq, I just want my old config back
[04:36] <magn3ts> Will Precise have Shell 3.3 or will we be stuck with 3.2?
[04:37] <micahg> well ,it'll be 3.4 or 3.2, some people are trying for 3.4, but it's not certain yet
[04:37] <magn3ts> oh, are odd numbereds unstable?
[04:37] <micahg> yep
[04:38] <magn3ts> Cooliolio, didn't realize that.
[04:38] <magn3ts> Well, I'll be in the hoping for 3.4 :) though it is an LTS
[04:38] <phunyguy> this seems to be a non-conventional LTS release
[04:38] <phunyguy> adding a couple new things
[04:39] <micahg> magn3ts: you can track bug 941755
[05:53] <Bobbeh> hello im back
[05:53] <Bobbeh> log u still there?
[05:54] <log> Yes.
[05:54] <Bobbeh> i installed kde
[05:54] <Bobbeh> all the effects and everything worked, so im gonna go out and say that unity not working is purely a bug and will be fixed soon
[05:55] <Bobbeh> then again, i dont think it uses compiz. so compiz being the problem is still valid
[05:55] <Bobbeh> also, i hate kde
[05:55] <Bobbeh> its ugly, even with its theming engine, i hate the layout, the design, everything. Too windows like.
[05:56] <Bobbeh> now i dont know how in the world to uninstall
[05:56] <Bobbeh> I could just remove my ubuntu and reinstall it, but it takes really long and for the 21st time, its starting to get anoyying
[05:57] <Bobbeh> when i try to uninstall it using a command I found online, it says
[05:57] <Bobbeh> Virtual packages like 'kdepim-groupware' can't be removed
[05:57] <Bobbeh> Virtual packages like 'plasma-widget-kimpanel-backend-ibus' can't be removed
[06:01] <log> Bobbeh: You're trying to remove Kubuntu?
[06:01] <Bobbeh> yeah
[06:01] <Bobbeh> by runnning this long command
[06:01] <Bobbeh> http://askubuntu.com/questions/105888/how-to-completly-uninstall-kde-and-its-packages-from-12-04
[06:02] <log> You might want to clean install. Removing a DE gets messy.
[06:03] <Bobbeh> ugh
[06:03] <Bobbeh> gonna take fo eva
[06:03] <Bobbeh> but ok
[06:03] <Bobbeh> what was that other DE you were talking about
[06:03] <Bobbeh> was it xubuntu?
[06:06] <Bobbeh_> brb
[06:14] <Bobbeh> hey log
[06:14] <Bobbeh> which do you reccomend, the beta 1 of precise, or the current build?
[06:14] <log> Same thing, basically.
[06:15] <Bobbeh> k
[06:15] <Bobbeh> im so tired
[06:15] <Bobbeh> its 115
[06:16] <Bobbeh> what kind of music do yo listen to?
[06:16] <log> It's 1:16 AM for me. :P
[06:16] <log> Ubuntu startup sounds, naturally.
[06:16] <log> They're bangin'.
[06:16] <Bobbeh> lul
[06:17] <Bobbeh> thisll work right?
[06:17] <Bobbeh> http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=3075
[06:18] <Bobbeh> even though its like 5 years old?
[06:19] <Bobbeh> wup gotta reboot
[06:19] <Bobbeh> brb
[08:16] <pasodj> hi, anyone here?
[09:52]  * valdur55 is away: I'm busy
[10:00] <hot_wheelz> hi guys
[10:00] <hot_wheelz> will https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/644198 be fixed soon?
[10:01] <bazhang> hot_wheelz, as the link shows, a fix has been released
[10:04] <hot_wheelz> bazhang, I tried installing 11.1o from livecd earlier today no joy with blue-tooth detection
[10:04] <almoxarife> ok, so now that everyone finds 'dnsmasq' the sexy answer to caching I was wondering where I am suppose to make the changes to dnsmasq.conf (does not exist)?
[10:05] <almoxarife> ok, so now that everyone finds 'dnsmasq' the sexy answer to caching I was wondering where I am suppose to make the changes to dnsmasq.conf (does not exist)? kubuntu 12.04
[10:06] <almoxarife> where it seems like one might (/var/run/nm-dnsmasq.conf) any changes made don't stick
[10:06] <bazhang> hot_wheelz, its been fixed in precise, which is what this channel is for 12.04
[10:08] <hot_wheelz> noted the fix sorry
[10:13] <jokerdino> bug 9577757
[10:14] <jokerdino> bug 957757
[10:14] <jokerdino> bug 947757
[10:22] <bazhang> !find php
[10:23] <bazhang> info php5
[10:23] <bazhang> whoops
[10:23] <bazhang> !info php5
[10:42] <eruditehermit> hey, does anyone know a workaround for the gnome-shell battery meter problem?
[11:33] <ironhalik> hmm guys, Ive got a problem
[11:33] <ironhalik> I want to bind a script to fn key
[11:33] <ironhalik> and it wont let me :)
[11:35] <dr_willis> make the key do somthing like 'xterm -e /path/to/script'    perhaps? to see if its working
[11:40] <ironhalik> hmm, binding it like that make no difference
[11:41] <ironhalik> the original function of the key, is to change the aspect ratio from 16/10 to 4/3
[11:41] <ironhalik> when I usi it, the cursor blinks and nothing happens
[11:42] <glosoli> working fine here
[11:42] <glosoli> :)
[11:42] <glosoli> you do chmod +x that script ?
[11:42] <ironhalik> sure
[11:42] <ironhalik> of I bind it to, lets say, ctrl + alt + shift + s
[11:42] <ironhalik> it works
[11:43] <glosoli> what are you trying to bind it to ?
[11:43] <ironhalik> fn + display
[11:43] <ironhalik> its a dells thing
[11:44] <glosoli> does it even finds your key
[11:44] <glosoli>  ?
[11:44] <ironhalik> well, yeah
[11:44] <ironhalik> it says its 'Display'
[11:44] <ironhalik> and the keycode is 233
[11:45] <glosoli> Strange are you sure you made it executable ?
[11:45] <ironhalik> yeah
[11:45] <ironhalik> I got it aliased too
[11:45] <ironhalik> I think it has some hardcoded function
[11:45] <ironhalik> and since my script uses dpms force off
[11:46] <ironhalik> which faiels when theres other input
[11:46] <ironhalik> then the hardcoded function brakes the script
[11:47] <ironhalik> btw, anyone noticed situation when the PC completely freezes, all CPU cores at full, and disk reading/writing constantly?
[11:47] <ironhalik> it may be related to google chrome
[11:59] <atengesdal> Hello, running 12.04 and I can't get inSSIDer to work, can anyone help?
[11:59] <atengesdal> Unhandled Exception: System.TypeLoadException: Could not load type 'MetaGeek.inSSIDer.Extensions.Graphs.View.ChannelView' from assembly 'MetaGeek.inSSIDer.Extensions.Graphs, Version=<IP_ADDRESS>9, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'.
[11:59] <glosoli> ironhalik: nah didin't noticed that
[12:02] <ironhalik> yeah, Im not sure of its something with Ubuntu, or with my ghetto ssd
[12:02] <ironhalik> considering it causes, or is caused by, constant drive activity
[12:02] <atengesdal> Hello, running 12.04 and I can't get inSSIDer to work, can anyone help?
[12:03] <glosoli> ironhalik: heard there are some problems with SSD yesterday some person was calling for help :)
[12:04] <ironhalik> oh, I should look around the launchpad
[12:09] <ironhalik> hmm, I realised I forgot to add discard to my desktop pc
[12:09] <ironhalik> linux could do that by default
[12:09] <ironhalik> since, like, three years ago
[12:11] <atengesdal> anyone here knows anything about inSSIDer?
[12:11] <ironhalik> used it once or twice, but thats it
[12:27] <almoxarife> anyone else caught in the dnsmasq dilemma? can't configure it anymore in 12.04? if you have any info I would appreciate it
[12:29] <dr_willis> never really used dnsmasq
[12:29] <dr_willis> !info dnsmasq
[12:29] <penguin42> almoxarife: 12.04 has an autoconfigured one that runs just on the local interface autostarted by network manager
[12:32] <almoxarife> penguin42: that's the problem, I can't find where to re-configure it to my settings, settings I have tweaked for about 3 yrs
[12:33] <penguin42> almoxarife: I think it might be possible to turn the automatic one off
[12:33] <almoxarife> penguin42: if you know how please share brother, I don't see it
[12:33] <penguin42> almoxarife: I've not tried it, but...... in /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf on 12.04 is the line    dns=dnsmasq      that wasn't there in older ones
[12:34] <penguin42> almoxarife: I'd try taking it out and reboot and see what happens
[12:34] <almoxarife> penguin42: I saw that
[12:34] <dr_willis> so dnsmasq is being used by default?
[12:34] <penguin42> dr_willis: Yeh
[12:34] <almoxarife> dr_willis: yeap
[12:35] <almoxarife> which is sweet if one can have it suit their purposes too
[12:35] <dr_willis> id be happy if it just made finding samba shares on the LAN work better. :P
[12:36] <almoxarife> penguin42: I am trying to configure the running process, if I remove it I am thinking I am not going to get anywhere
[12:37] <penguin42> almoxarife: Well in stuff before 12.04 there wasn't anything running already, so what I'm guessing is if you stop NetworkManager starting it's own (by the thing I suggested) then you would do what you did previously
[12:38] <almoxarife> I installed 'dnsmasq' after the install, I kept getting a 'port 53 already being used', never thought dnsmasq would have gone default, and the conf file I do see is vapor-ware like making changes to 'resolve.conf' in 11.10
[12:39] <dr_willis> how did you install it.. if it was allready installed? :)
[12:39] <almoxarife> penguin42: your idea is as good as any right now
[12:39] <dr_willis> or is it an alternative to dnsmasq thats using the same name?
[12:39] <penguin42> dr_willis: No, it's really dnsmasq
[12:40] <penguin42> dr_willis: Started by NetworkManager, which generates it's own config file in a tmp directory
[12:40] <almoxarife> dr_willis: the installed package is 'dnsmasq-base', you can install 'dnsmasq'
[12:40] <dr_willis> holey dynamic dns masqs batman! :P
[12:41] <almoxarife> but then you got a deamon trying to use a port 12.04 does not allow
[12:43] <almoxarife> penguin42: you might have the right idea, I am going to try it
[12:51] <almoxarife> penguin42: you the man/woman, remarking the line keeps dnsmasq from starting and I still have dns from ??? don't care, I can install my version back, I assume now, thanks for the help
[12:52] <penguin42> almoxarife: No problem; and there is this page I just found linked from the Beta release notes that suggests the same: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
[12:56] <almoxarife> penguin42: sort of leaves you hanging (the link), I am one of those people who want to use a local cache, but good info, thnks
[12:57] <penguin42> almoxarife: Well, the bottom question/answer gives the same one I just gave you - I guess they could tweak their question a bit - but same answer :-)
[14:27] <airtonix> http://dpaste.com/714956/ < My system can not see the 4 2TB sata drives connected to the 88SE6145 SATA II PCI-E controller
[14:27] <airtonix> it can when i enter the bios setup, and when it progresses to through the POST screens. however entering the kernel.... it disapears because i can not force it to use ahci driver
[14:28] <airtonix> bios is setup to use ahci btw
[14:34] <penguin42> airtonix: Please bug report it - can you boot off cd/thumb drive and get to the installer?
[14:39] <airtonix> i can boot from usb on that machine, yes
[14:43] <legodude> hi everyone, my laptop is no longer suspending when I close the lid, any hints for debugging?
[14:47] <JohnNapster> hello
[14:48] <JohnNapster> we all know about  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[14:48] <JohnNapster> it would be wonderful to have  sudo apt-get dist-downgrade
[14:48] <JohnNapster> do you agree?
[14:49] <JohnNapster> i'm on Ubuntu 12.04 Beta 1  and I find it very unstable, so instead of reinstalling the whole 11.10 version, I would just like to do a little  sudo apt-get dist-downgrade
[14:50] <JohnNapster> but since this command (dist-downgrade) does not exist (yet?), i would love to know what's the easiest way to downgrade to Ubuntu 11.10   ??
[14:54] <tsimpson> you find a BETA unstable, stop the presses!!
[14:55] <tsimpson> short answer is, grab a 11.10 install CD and reinstall
[14:55] <tsimpson> long answer is, don't use development software when you want stability. dual-boot or use a VM if you don't have a test machine you're willing to have not working for a while
[14:58] <penguin42> JohnNapster: There is no downgrade
[14:59] <penguin42> JohnNapster: If you need to downgrade you'll have to reinstall - however, can you explain in what way it's unstable - those need filing as bugs so they can have a chance of being fixed for release
[14:59] <penguin42> tsimpson: Well it's a beta not an alpha
[15:00] <tsimpson> and it's beta not stable
[15:03] <Shubham> hey can anyone provide me link to download ubuntu 12.04
[15:03] <oCean> Shubham: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview/Beta1
[15:04] <Shubham> ocean thanks :)
[15:05] <Shubham> oCean, :) thanks
[15:06] <Shubham> oCean, so is it stable can i use it now only?
[15:06] <oCean> Shubham: no, it's beta, not stable
[15:06] <oCean> expect trouble
[15:06] <Shubham> oCean, ohh kk but it release date is close so can i expect some stability fron it? :P
[15:08] <oCean> Shubham: it still 7 weeks to release date. Yes it's beta, yes it's supposed to be more stable than Alpha, but that's why there is a beta testing period
[15:11] <FernandoMiguel> anyone knows how to fix the alt+tab problem ?
[15:12] <penguin42> When people say 'it's not stable' - please be more specific - does it crash? Does it misrender stuff? Does something specific not work
[15:14] <airtonix> penguin42: when i do eventually boot into a liveusb was there something specific you would have me run in order to submit usefull information
[15:15] <penguin42> airtonix: OK, have you got a launchpad account? If you have then in a terminal   run    ubuntu-bug linux     and follow the instructions
[15:15] <airtonix> penguin42: ok
[15:15] <penguin42> airtonix: That'll record all your machine details into launchpad
[15:16] <FernandoMiguel> when I was just finally liking Unity
[15:16] <airtonix> penguin42: but jsut so i'm sure on this, the pastebin i provided was supposed to disable pata-marvel and use ahci instead right?
[15:17] <airtonix> FernandoMiguel: there's a problem with alt+tab?
[15:17] <penguin42> airtonix: Sorry, I missed that pastebin - where?
[15:17] <FernandoMiguel> airtonix: I can't alt+tab anymore
[15:17] <airtonix> http://dpaste.com/714956/
[15:17] <airtonix> gah
[15:18] <airtonix> penguin42: http://dpaste.com/714958/
[15:18] <almoxarife> http://torrentfreak.com/piratebox-takes-file-sharing-off-the-radar-and-offline-for-next-to-nothing-120311/
[15:18] <almoxarife> wrong channel, sorry
[15:18] <airtonix> not yet you're not
[15:19] <oCean> it's not stable because of quite a long list of all sorts of issues (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04)
[15:19] <penguin42> airtonix: OK, so I've not seen that rune before
[15:20] <ironhalik> Hmm, theres something really wrong with precise right now, for me at least
[15:21] <ironhalik> every couple of minutes, it completely freezes for abourt 30 seconds
[15:21] <ironhalik> it may be Unity
[15:22] <FernandoMiguel> ironhalik: what GPU?
[15:23] <penguin42> ironhalik: can you pastebin the output of dmesg after a hang
[15:23] <ironhalik> FernandoMiguel: Intel IGP, 950 c
[15:23] <ironhalik> sorry, one was right now
[15:23] <ironhalik> 950 chipset
[15:24] <ironhalik> so kinda oldish, but worked nice on 11.10
[15:24] <ironhalik> sec, ill paste dmesg, theres something there
[15:25] <ironhalik> http://paste.ubuntu.com/879023/
[15:25] <penguin42> ironhalik: Is that it - could you pastebin the whole dmesg?
[15:26] <penguin42> ironhalik: If you're getting one of those on every time it pauses, then there seems to be a disagreement with your disc controller
[15:26] <ironhalik> yeah, I hqad some problems when formatting the drive
[15:26] <ironhalik> couldnt remove swap partition
[15:27] <ironhalik> its flashbased, without trim, so when I was installing 64 bit, I zeroed it via dd
[15:27] <ironhalik> like when you do with the old SSDs
[15:29] <FernandoMiguel> alt+f4 isn't working either
[15:29] <FernandoMiguel> but the key is set
[15:29] <penguin42> ironhalik: Can you pastebin a full dmesg?  I don't know much about SSDs but lets see what we can see
[15:33] <ironhalik> sorry, had to reboot this time
[15:34] <ironhalik> penguin42: theres no point, other parts of dmesg are regarding my wifi only
[15:35] <penguin42> ironhalik: Odd, it normally contains all the kernel boot info
[15:36] <ironhalik> well, ok Ill paste the whole output
[15:37] <ironhalik> http://paste.ubuntu.com/879053/
[15:40] <ironhalik> can I run fsck on mounted filesystem?
[15:41] <ironhalik> oh, I can but I shouldn't
[15:42] <penguin42> ironhalik: it doesn't give sane results when it's mounted and you really mustn't let it try and fix anything
[15:43] <penguin42> ironhalik: So, those boot messages look OK, normal Intel ATA controller - although I've never seen anyone running off a compact flash before
[15:44] <penguin42> ironhalik: I'd probably try using something like hdparm to see if I could knock it down one UDMA speed
[15:44] <ironhalik> it runs at full speed, 80 megs read and ~20 write
[15:44] <penguin42> ironhalik: except when it goes wrong!
[15:45] <ironhalik> but the write is acting funny, the first 1/3 of the test it runs at 30meg, then drops to 20
[15:45] <penguin42> ironhalik: that fragment from when it goes wrong shows a timeout (which is probably why everything hangs for 30seconds)
[15:48] <ironhalik> ok, bbl, Ill work on it with my desktop around :)
[15:48] <ironhalik> thanks
[16:20] <Siarom> hen-files e hud are redundant operations? hud can find files also!
[16:20] <Siarom> no?
[16:51] <FunnyLookinHat> Anyone else have a problem where closing their laptop lid won't initiate suspend?  It's set to do so within my power settings.
[16:51] <FunnyLookinHat> I wasn't sure if I should submit a device-specific regression bug.
[17:20] <itaylor57> just upped my system from 4 G to 8G
[17:38] <penguin42> I thought suspend on 12.04 only got enabled on a small set of machines - but I don't know the details
[17:39] <itaylor57> penguin42, i think that is hibernate,have to be whitelisted
[17:39] <itaylor57> suspend works fine for me
[17:39] <penguin42> oh ok
[17:40] <FernandoMiguel> oh really?
[17:45] <itaylor57> but i could be wrong, i just know that hibernate is not an option on my install
[17:58] <Hobart> ...welp, if anyone else should report the same issue/behavior I did, booting off a live CD, mounting and chrooting to the install, mounting /dev /sys and /proc, then doing a full apt update/upgrade/dist-upgrade fixed it, fwiw.
[18:20] <FunnyLookinHat> Suspend works fine for me when I choose it from the gear icon - it just doesn't do it automatically when I close my screen.
[18:22] <itaylor57> FunnyLookinHat, did you set it to suspend in the power settings?
[18:23] <itaylor57> i.e. when lid is closed
[18:28] <FunnyLookinHat> itaylor57, Yeah
[18:29] <FunnyLookinHat> I think it's this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/862813
[18:32] <itaylor57> well mine works
[18:40] <sima_> Hello all!
[18:45] <FunnyLookinHat> itaylor57, What brand/model laptop?
[18:45] <FunnyLookinHat> Howdy sima_
[18:46] <sima_> Hi
[18:46] <sima_> Who what may say about mine problem?
[18:48] <FunnyLookinHat> Just ask away - if someone knows an answer they'll respond :)
[18:48] <sima_> Ok, another question
[18:49] <sima_> Who use custom GTK theme s
[18:49] <sima_> themes on 12.04 ?
[18:55] <pangolin> sima_ : just ask your actual support question and if someone can answer they will.
[18:55] <sima_> Oh
[18:57] <sima_> When I using GTK theme Ambianse DS Blue in Settings windows background are gray and text color - white.Therefore it merges
[19:01] <the-penguin> Anyone have trouble logging in with LighDM?
[19:02] <sima_> I have troubbles with random-time logout
[19:02] <the-penguin> hmm, It's just my admin account and just LightDM
[19:03] <the-penguin> if I launch gdm via tty interface everything works fine
[19:03] <jbicha> sima_: the theme probably needs to be updated for GTK 3.3/3.4, you can ask the theme developer about it
[19:03] <the-penguin> maybe, the odd thing is that I can still log into the guest accounts with LightDM, it's just my admin account
[19:04] <sima_> Thanks
[19:04] <trism> the-penguin: what sort of trouble? do you notice anything strange in the logs in /var/log/lightdm/ ?
[19:04] <sima_> Who use Cinnamon?
[19:05] <sima_> What there with translations? Who knows?
[19:05] <the-penguin> hmm, as of now the lightdm.log file is empty, I did a backtrace earlier and submitted a bug on launchpad
[19:06] <the-penguin> If I read it right there seems to be a kernel issue when ever lightdm crashes
[19:08] <trism> the-penguin: what's the bug number?
[19:09] <the-penguin> just one second
[19:11] <trism> the-penguin: no rush, just curious to see the backtrace
[19:16] <the-penguin> Bug #952442 or #951794
[19:16] <the-penguin> they're both the same problem, with different packages target by apport
[19:17] <trism> the-penguin: thanks
[19:18] <penguin42> the-penguin: There are a whole bunch of files in /var/log/lightdm - x-0.log might be interesting if you think it's the X dying
[19:18] <the-penguin> okay, just one second, i'll check it out
[19:18] <the-penguin> i've been looking at the auth.log and the problem seems to appear there as well
[19:19] <the-penguin> sessions opening and closing for both my account and for lightdm
[19:19] <penguin42> the-penguin: If you check there is no actual password in there then it's probably best to just attach the lot from there
[19:19] <the-penguin> withing several seconds
[19:21] <ActionParsnip> Any guake user here. I'm missing the new tab button in the bottom right and wondered if I was alone?
[19:21] <trism> the-penguin: did you try any other sessions other than the xterm session?
[19:21] <the-penguin> yes, all sessions won't launch with the admin account, including the xterm
[19:21] <the-penguin> everything launches fine though if gdm is used
[19:23] <itaylor57> FunnyLookinHat, lemur system76
[19:25] <ActionParsnip> System76 ftw
[19:26] <andrewaclt> Is OpenJDK included by default in 12.04? Or some other JRE?
[19:26] <ActionParsnip> andrewaclt: yes openjdk
[19:26] <andrewaclt> I've searched for "openjdk" "java runtime" "java jre" "jre" and I don't see anything in the ubuntu software center
[19:27] <ActionParsnip> !find java
[19:28] <andrewaclt> I guess I want default-jdk
[19:28] <ironhalik> apt-get install default-jdk
[19:28] <andrewaclt> lol yep thanks
[19:29] <ironhalik> apt-get install openjdk-7-jdk, too
[19:29] <ironhalik> :>
[19:29] <andrewaclt> heh
[19:30] <ActionParsnip> ironhalik: will need sudo ;-)
[19:31] <the-penguin> are there no debugging symbols for lightdm?
[19:35] <trism> the-penguin: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/l/lightdm/
[19:35] <the-penguin> trism: thanks
[20:07] <FunnyLookinHat> itaylor57, Well of course the Lemur works! ( I work at System76 )
[20:11] <itaylor57> FunnyLookinHat, i really like it
[20:19] <ActionParsnip> do any guake users have the new tab button missing in the bottom right of the window?
[20:45] <FunnyLookinHat> itaylor57, sweet!  I'm glad you do!
[21:26] <FernandoMiguel> anyone can test this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/896547?comments=all
[21:27] <decaf> is your aptitude blue too?
[21:28] <FernandoMiguel> ?
[21:32] <ActionParsnip> FernandoMiguel: the deb will need tweaking to use the 64bit one
[21:34] <FernandoMiguel> ActionParsnip: :-\
[21:34] <Roasted> hi
[21:34] <Roasted> where are groups at in 12.04?
[21:34] <FernandoMiguel> ?
[21:34] <Roasted> I want to add myself to a group but I don't see how
[21:34] <ActionParsnip> Roasted: /etc/group as always...
[21:35] <ActionParsnip> Roasted: sudo usermod -a -G groupname user
[21:35] <Roasted> ActionParsnip, no, it used to be in the gui
[21:35] <Roasted> ActionParsnip, it was just removed?
[21:35] <FernandoMiguel> AFAIK we no longer support groups :)
[21:35] <ActionParsnip> Roasted: no idea, always used the cli as its so simple
[21:35] <FernandoMiguel> at least for desktop level
[21:35] <ActionParsnip> FernandoMiguel: why would we not?
[21:35] <Roasted> ActionParsnip, simple is besides the point. Point is I'm questioning why certain functionality was removed.
[21:36] <Roasted> FernandoMiguel, why?
[21:36] <FernandoMiguel> it's all done by apport or what ever is called
[21:36] <Roasted> that makes absolutely no sense
[21:36] <ActionParsnip> Roasted: then report a bug
[21:36] <bjsnider> just use the frigging command line
[21:36] <Roasted> ActionParsnip, that's why I'm here, to see if it's expected behavior or not.
[21:36] <FernandoMiguel> it's not a but, it's a feature
[21:36] <Roasted> bjsnider, see above.
[21:36] <ActionParsnip> Roasted: i'd report it anyway
[21:36] <Roasted> ActionParsnip, well sometimes they move options around. I didn't want to report it if it was simply moved elsewhere.
[21:36] <Roasted> FernandoMiguel, how is that a feature.
[21:36] <Roasted> FernandoMiguel, that's a feature being removed.
[21:37] <Roasted> FernandoMiguel, that is in no way shape or form a feature.
[21:41] <jbicha> Roasted: install gnome-system-tools
[21:43] <jbicha> Roasted: most people will be fine with User Accounts which lets you set a user as Administrator or not
[21:44] <jbicha> FernandoMiguel: please don't file bugs against ubuntu-docs unless they're actually ubuntu-docs bugs
[21:46] <FernandoMiguel> jbicha: it used to be the proper way to add notes to documentation
[21:46] <jbicha> FernandoMiguel: what documentation mentions the Android SDK?
[21:47] <FernandoMiguel> :|
[21:48] <FernandoMiguel> we do have wiki/help pages for it
[21:48] <FernandoMiguel> but!
[21:48] <FernandoMiguel> release notes need to contain the alert if it's "broken" on release date
[21:51] <Roasted> jbicha, gnome-system-tools provides a gui way to manage groups?
[21:51] <Roasted> hm, it's already installed....
[21:51] <jbicha> Roasted: yes, it will installs users-admin which is the old tool you're used to
[21:52] <Roasted> what's it listed in the menu as?
[21:52] <Roasted> ah, users and groups?
[21:52] <Roasted> wow
[21:52] <Roasted> that's pretty stupid
[21:52] <jbicha> FernandoMiguel: the wiki is editable with only a Launchpad account ;-)
[21:52] <Roasted> a whole other gui with only that as the difference?
[21:52] <Roasted> that's a fail
[21:53] <jbicha> Roasted: no, from a UI perspective it's "deprecated" but it still works
[21:53] <FernandoMiguel> jbicha: I can edit the wiki, but I can't edit the release notes :)
[21:54] <Roasted> jbicha, so what's the future for gui's that manage groups?
[21:54] <Roasted> jbicha, is there none?
[21:54] <Roasted> I just don't see why you'd make another gui for that and remove functionality. That screams Mac so badly to me. :(
[21:55] <bjsnider> that would be of questionable value
[21:55] <jbicha> FernandoMiguel: actually that's a wiki too, but it's already mentioned (maybe not clearly) as part of the multiarch switch
[21:55] <jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview/Beta1#Upgrades
[21:55] <bjsnider> most people who edit group settings are doing so from the cli
[21:55] <FernandoMiguel> thank you
[21:56] <FernandoMiguel> jbicha: the limitation remains: google's android SDK won't run if user doesn't install a i386 lib :\
[21:56] <Roasted> bjsnider, again, still stupid
[21:56] <Roasted> very disappointing
[21:57] <bjsnider> i don't see why
[21:57] <bjsnider> there are already 2 different ways to edit groups without a gui
[21:57] <Roasted> at least on mac I have an acl sort of listing for the folder
[21:57] <Roasted> I can just say, these 3 people, you have access to this folder without giving 777 rights
[21:57] <Roasted> and that works on mac
[21:57] <Roasted> without giving all 3 users a gruop, then assigning that group to the folder
[21:58] <Roasted> but in ubuntu, that doesn't exist. there is no acl, so the group thing was a nice work around.
[21:58] <Roasted> don't get me wrong, I'm a terminal junkie, but this creates a nightmare for me when training at work on this stuff.
[21:58] <jbicha> FernandoMiguel: my opinion is that that is a Google problem since it's not part of Ubuntu
[21:58] <FernandoMiguel> I agree
[21:58] <FernandoMiguel> hence why I filed on their BTS too
[21:59] <FernandoMiguel> and why I would like our release-notes to refer it
[21:59] <FernandoMiguel> but ill restest on a clean system and add to ubuntu wiki android page about it, instead
[21:59] <jbicha> I don't think there is a bug tracker for the release notes
[21:59] <FernandoMiguel> so how do we track what is needed to be added to it ?
[21:59] <FernandoMiguel> :)
[22:00] <FernandoMiguel> a tag?
[22:00] <bjsnider> Roasted, you're really asking for a feature that we probably should have
[22:00] <bjsnider> forget about the groups part of the argument. that is weak
[22:01] <jbicha> FernandoMiguel: it's a wiki so you either do it yourself or ask in #ubuntu-release
[22:02] <Roasted> bjsnider, I'm not understanding your angle. Are you saying we should have some sort of ACL ability like Mac has?
[22:02] <bjsnider> Roasted, yes
[22:02] <jbicha> that's just my opinion, the Ubuntu Docs team is so small that we can't really take care of other stuff too
[22:02] <Roasted> bjsnider, I agree.
[22:02] <Roasted> bjsnider, I used the groups as a work around, hence my frustration when ti was removed since we didn't have the ACL type of setup to begin with.
[22:03] <bjsnider> another workaround is 777 permissions
[22:03] <Roasted> lol
[22:03] <Roasted> because that's a logical solution
[22:04] <bjsnider> no, i said it's a workaround, not a solution
[22:04] <FernandoMiguel> bjsnider: http://blog.dreamhost.com/2012/03/08/pesky-permissions/
[22:37] <airtonix> Roasted: re : group management > i agree.
[22:53] <leftyfb> I put 12.04 back to classic gnome ... how do I enable right-clicking items in the Applications menu so I can add them to the desktop and/or panel?
[22:53] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: in the mean time if you copy the files from /usr/share/applications to the desktop, it will work
[22:53] <leftyfb> yep, I know that
[22:54] <leftyfb> and 4 other ways of accomplishing the same goal .. none of which are user friendly
[22:55] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: was only a workaround til you get an answer. I'm not a mind reader so I wasn't aware you knew other ways. Jeez
[22:56] <FernandoMiguel> leftyfb: it's not meant to be user friendly. it's meant for users to use Unity :)
[22:56] <leftyfb> Unity is not user friendly
[22:56] <leftyfb> or productive
[22:56] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: could just use xfce, no unity there and it feels a lot like Gnome2
[22:56] <FernandoMiguel> to me it is
[22:56] <FernandoMiguel> after 3 cycles of getting better
[22:57] <FernandoMiguel> I used to feel it wasnt
[22:57] <FernandoMiguel> you just need to tweak it a bit to your way! ccsm to the rescue
[22:57] <leftyfb> FernandoMiguel: sorry, I don't like the coolaid
[22:58] <FernandoMiguel> give it a good try
[22:58] <FernandoMiguel> took me 18 months too :)
[22:58] <leftyfb> I have
[22:58] <leftyfb> many times
[22:58] <FernandoMiguel> in 12.04 ?
[22:58] <leftyfb> yes
[22:58] <leftyfb> it's garbage
[22:58] <FernandoMiguel> cause 11.x sucked
[22:58] <FernandoMiguel> I would disagree
[22:58] <FernandoMiguel> but you are intile to your opinion :)
[22:58] <leftyfb> good thing this is a linux community
[22:58] <leftyfb> or used t obe
[22:58] <ActionParsnip> FernandoMiguel: 'entitled'
[22:59] <FernandoMiguel> yeah, I noticed the typo :)
[22:59] <FernandoMiguel> uncommon word on my vocabulary :P
[22:59] <leftyfb> so ... right-clicking the Applications menu is another feature removed from Ubuntu?
[23:00] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: in gnome, maybe
[23:00] <FernandoMiguel> it was already in 11.10 I think
[23:00] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: works here in LXDE
[23:01] <ActionParsnip> leftyfb: so not removed from Ubuntu, as you say
[23:05] <FernandoMiguel> I don't want to start a word war, but using another WM/DE isn't exactly the aim of Ubuntu (for human beings)
[23:06] <FernandoMiguel> it's more of an option of linux
[23:06] <ActionParsnip> FernandoMiguel: why not? Kubuntu and Xubuntu exist and are equally supported
[23:09] <bjsnider> ActionParsnip, you know what he meant when he said "ubuntu" and it wasn't lxde
[23:09] <FernandoMiguel> :)
[23:14] <trism> either way, it wasn't ubuntu that removed, it was removed upstream http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-panel/commit/?id=c1ab7e84f6478a826a746d5999d95f2fcbe13d4f
[23:22] <jbicha> by the way, you can just drag shortcuts from the Applications menu to the panel or the desktop
[23:24] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: ubuntu is the distro, you can use all manner of desktops in ubuntu
[23:24] <bjsnider> not the point
[23:25] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: I am using ubuntu, and I can right click the menu and add icons to the desktop. That's the point
[23:26] <bjsnider> he didn't come in here to ask about lxde
[23:27] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: he said the functionality was 'removed from linux' which it's not
[23:27] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: removed from gnome.....maybe so
[23:28] <bjsnider> removed from ubuntu
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: its not
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> ok removed from ubuntu
[23:28] <ActionParsnip> but its not removed from ubuntu as I can do it and I am using ubuntu
[23:29] <bjsnider> you're using lubuntu
[23:29] <FernandoMiguel> is he ?
[23:29] <FernandoMiguel> did he change DE?
[23:29] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: its ubuntu minimal + lxde
[23:29] <FernandoMiguel> or just WM ?
[23:30] <FernandoMiguel> I guess neither :P
[23:30] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: i didn't install the lubuntu metapackage so my system still says ubuntu
[23:30] <ActionParsnip> ubuntu!= gnome
[23:31] <bjsnider> it really is
[23:31] <bjsnider> to be honest
[23:31] <bjsnider> it's unity with gnome underneath
[23:31] <FernandoMiguel> no, its unity :)
[23:31] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: its not, ubuntu is the OS, gnome is just the default DE in the gnome based ubuntu
[23:31] <FernandoMiguel> the OS is GNU/Linux :D
[23:32] <ActionParsnip> yeah, but ubuntu is still the distro, no matter which DE you choose
[23:32] <FernandoMiguel> ahah
[23:32] <bjsnider> mark shuttleworth's own definition of ubuntu is that it is based on gnome
[23:33] <FernandoMiguel> or at least it was.... in the past
[23:33] <ActionParsnip> but the underlying OS is 100% identical. The gui on top does not transform it into something drastically differet
[23:33] <FernandoMiguel> I'm sure his view on the distro has changed a lot in the last 3 cycles
[23:33] <FernandoMiguel> ActionParsnip: I would disagree
[23:33] <bjsnider> no, he still says it's gnome with a different shell
[23:33] <FernandoMiguel> since it's being made to be used with touch
[23:33] <ActionParsnip> its the same X server, drivers and kernel
[23:33] <FernandoMiguel> and cross devices
[23:34] <ActionParsnip> 100% identicl
[23:35] <ActionParsnip> changing some default apps and the DE doesn't make it a whole lot different
[23:35] <ActionParsnip> its still ubuntu
[23:35] <yofel> if ubuntu is gnome with a different shell, then I wonder when "gnome" became "a shell, file manager and some other software that don't have much in common with each other than the gui toolkit developed by the same people"
[23:35] <bjsnider> i think that's an impossible case to make
[23:36] <bjsnider> yofel, you use kubuntu
[23:36] <yofel> well, I used gnome in the past, and that ^ definition definitely wasn't was gnome was back then
[23:37] <yofel> *what gnome was
[23:37] <bjsnider> back when?
[23:37] <yofel> jaunty?
[23:38] <yofel> something like that
[23:38] <ActionParsnip> its like when people say "I hate oneiric" and when asked why it's because they dislike Unity (which is fine) but Unity is only default installed in one of the 4 fully supported variants of ubuntu available...
[23:38] <ActionParsnip> so they don't hate oneiric, they hate unity
[23:38] <bjsnider> yofel, what are you trying to say? i don't understand
[23:38] <bjsnider> gnome used to be less ambitious?
[23:39] <FernandoMiguel> lefty has left :) you guys can relax again :D
[23:39] <bjsnider> i don't really care
[23:39] <ActionParsnip> I'm glad gnome did something bold tbh :)
[23:39] <yofel> I'm not saying that, gnome by itself is fine - but mark saying that ubuntu is gnome with "just" a different shell doesn't make sense
[23:39] <bjsnider> i want to argue about it anyway
[23:40] <bjsnider> yofel, but you're not arguing that he said it?
[23:40] <FernandoMiguel> aahha
[23:40] <bjsnider> because i can go out and get the quote
[23:40] <FernandoMiguel> I'll be on the sidelines ;)
[23:40] <yofel> I'm not, I know he said it
[23:44] <bjsnider> in earlier distros the default apps were gnome and the shell was gnome
[23:46] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: I thought the shell was a new thing in Natty and later.. Is there a 'shell' in Lucid for example?
[23:46] <bjsnider> yes
[23:46] <bjsnider> gnome-panel
[23:46] <ActionParsnip> I thought it was Gnome DE + Metacity/Compiz WM..
[23:46] <ActionParsnip> ahhhhh
[23:46] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: makes sense now
[23:46] <ActionParsnip> bjsnider: thanks :)
[23:47] <bjsnider> metacity is gnome's wm. metacity 3 is now called mutter. gnome-shell replaced gnome-panel as the shell
[23:48] <bjsnider> you used to be able to replace metacity with compiz but still use gnome-panel as the shell
[23:48] <ActionParsnip> is mutter still developed?
[23:48] <bjsnider> most definitely
[23:48] <bjsnider> very much so
[23:48] <ActionParsnip> not heard much of it personally
[23:49] <bjsnider> it's very advanced
[23:49] <ActionParsnip> i'll look into it :)
[23:49] <bjsnider> it's tear-free by design, for example
[23:50] <bjsnider> it uses clutter for compositing
[23:50] <bjsnider> unity was based on it at first
[23:51] <bjsnider> i imagine that will happen again in the future
[23:51] <ActionParsnip> i only got into unity in Oneiric, lxde rules the roost here
[23:51] <ActionParsnip> its not bad
[23:59] <Roasted> hello!
[23:59] <Roasted> bjsnider, that's what gnome shell is based on, right?