[02:51] <rufus> hey
[03:19] <blahdeblah> sarnold: Thanks; my only wonder was whether there were some special things the desktop installer did with cryptsetup & such that would be missing if I went the server install route.
[07:02] <vcxza> Hello. I have to use gcc inside a docker container of an ubuntu 20.04 image, in order to build a program with it. Ubuntu 20.04 has gcc 9 as default and I wonder what can be side effects of installing gcc 10 ( https://ahelpme.com/linux/ubuntu/install-and-make-gnu-gcc-10-default-in-ubuntu-20-04-focal/ ) on it, instead of using 9, after it reaches EOL.
[07:09] <weedmic> vcxza: you need to have the gcc inside the container - the container should be contained in a way so as to have almost zero affect on the host - unless you specifically setup things like shared internet, folders, etc.  you also can probably find a container that is already setup to work out of the box the way you want.  you should cotnact the poc for the product.
[07:10] <vcxza> weedmic: of course I need gcc inside the container. I wonder if there can be disadvantages of installing gcc 10 on an EOL version
[07:11] <alkisg> Hi, does anyone know what the little icons in some of the folders in this screenshot mean? https://imgur.com/a/0trFkpb
[07:11] <alkisg> Are they from tomboy? How can we remove them? It even seems that caja crashes when trying to enter one of these dirs...
[07:16] <guiverc> alkisg, no clues if you `stat` them?
[07:17] <guiverc> (ie. I'd expect to guess what it's trying to show by what is similar between them, contrasted with other entries in that directory)
[07:18] <alkisg> guiverc: they're the same as other dirs; and, renaming them removes the icon; so it's probably handled by some file manager plugin, but I don't see anything related in `ps`, I guess it's in-process plugin
[07:18] <alkisg> I tried grepping the tomboy dirs for the directory names to no avail; I'll test more, but it would help if someone already knew what's all this about...
[07:19] <guiverc> no idea sorry alkisg, all I could think of (don't recall seeing what you showed before)
[07:19] <alkisg> Thanks! Let's see if anyone else happens to know...
[07:20] <hamood> Broadcom PCB Wifi Not Working In ubuntu 22.04.2 LTS
[07:21] <guiverc> looking at my own ~ from within caja; only unusual icon there (notepad like without pen in your diagram) appears for non-local directories (ie. network shares)
[07:22] <alkisg> Hmm, all of ~ is an sshfs mount... so if that was the case, all of them should have the icon...
[07:30] <weedmic> vcxza: only if it conflicts with something you rely on or is not supported by your package manager - but... i have successfully used newer items with paitence and a lot of symbolick links.
[07:32] <vcxza> weedmic: https://ahelpme.com/linux/ubuntu/install-and-make-gnu-gcc-10-default-in-ubuntu-20-04-focal/ <--- this is the installation procedure. I don't understand if it relies on something not directly done by the package manager
[07:33] <vcxza> I see "apt upgrade" (which I presume is bad on an EOL) and "update-alternatives" inside it
[07:35] <vcxza> I don't want to make newer gcc work by adjusting stuff with patience...
[07:35] <weedmic> 20.04 is quite old, but still has life on the support cycle.  i cannot help you.  but, this kammer is full of smart ppl,many using 20.04.
[07:36] <hamood> well wifi on ubuntu 22 is not working
[07:37] <vcxza> so the question becomes: what can be problematic, with this installation procedure of gcc-10 (  https://ahelpme.com/linux/ubuntu/install-and-make-gnu-gcc-10-default-in-ubuntu-20-04-focal/  ) on ubuntu 20.04 when it goes EOL ?
[08:14] <hid3> Greetings everyone. I am preparing linux builds based on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS in my company. However, web developers demand "latest stable releases" for software they use. To name a few, it would be PHP, MariaDB, Nginx, etc. My vision was to use everything from official Ubuntu repositories. However, developers say that versions are outdated, no security and feature upgrades for them, so they want to tahev some custom/additional repos for each product
[08:14] <hid3> in this example it would be nginx, php, mariadb
[08:15] <hid3> Question: is this really a good idea to have such setup? I like and trust Ubuntu, I know that if you use Ubuntu packages, security and compatability is guaranteed
[08:15] <hid3> however, not sure what scenario will be with software installed from custom repos
[08:16] <hid3> e.g. php. php doesn't have it's official repo for Ubuntu 22.04. So that random/custom repo would be owned by someone else rather than by php.net officials. Nobody knows what quality of software is provided there, also, nobody can guarantee that repo will be still alive/reachable after 2-3-5 or so years...
[08:16] <hid3> these are my main concerns
[08:19] <ravage> all the software you mention gets security updates
[08:20] <ravage> Ubuntu will never have the latest versions. Especially not on LTS releases
[08:21] <ravage> i think your "web developers" aka devops should work with the PHP version available
[08:21] <ravage> Ubuntu 22.04 comes with PHP 8.1 and most project work just fine with it
[08:21] <ravage> i dont know a single web project that needs 8.2
[08:23] <ravage> nginx seems to have some strange behaviour. i used a PPA when i ran into problems here. for both, PHP und nginx  the sury.org repos are a good sourc
[08:23] <ravage> e
[08:23] <ravage> but as you said you rely on security and maintenance on this repo then
[08:25] <hid3> I pointed out to them basically same info. And their reply was that 'php 8.1 will be EOL sometime this November and after that, there will be NO security updates, because php themselves are not releasing them and backporting it is not possible'
[08:25] <toddc> LTS =latest stable vs latest testing is not always better and may have new bugs still present   as ravage said they are maintaied  so unless there is a certain feature in a newer verstion that is needed I avoid the latest
[08:27] <toddc> eol on PHP means they still maintained but developed stops at EOL date
[08:28] <ravage> debian and ubuntu backport php security fixes for years
[08:28] <ravage> so they have no idea what they are talking about
[08:28] <ravage> im sure most websites on this internet run on packages provided by the distributions. which is alomost never "latest"
[08:29] <ravage> but devops usually have no idea about the real world outside docker
[08:36] <akik> hid3: if you absolutely need newer versions, you can get them via containers but that complicates the setup
[08:43] <hid3> points taken. Thanks a lot
[10:06] <myway__> Hi, I booted my Ubuntu fine until today, now I'm getting a black screen which is like blinking from no video input to input. The screen is working fine up to the initial disk decryption. Only thing I did yesterday is updating packages (maybe something related to Nvidia?) and adding fuse2 for appimage manager. Any idea what can I do since even safe mode doesn't boot?
[10:49] <william_> My Firefox browser is corrupt how do I go about restoring it?
[10:55] <BedMan> william_: corrupt how? it won't start, or throws errors when you start it, or what?
[10:57] <BedMan> william_: it's doubtful that the binary is corrupt (although it could be) more likely you config files are borked.  To test that, you can move the .firefox directory in your home dir to something different and try starting it again.  Then if that works, either you're good to go, or put files back from the old dir to the new one until you find out what broke it...
[11:01] <crst> Hi, really stupid question. I have a running system, it was setup with 4 disks in a RAID (/boot/efi:esp:256M,/boot:ext3:1G,/:ext4:all). I don't want to mess with anything. Is it still possible have a zpool on this system?
[11:18] <weedmic> hid3: if you want bleeding edge, but mostly well tested, I suggest you try opensuse tumbleweed.  lts is more like leap.  stable, trustworthy, dependable - but not bleeding edge.
[11:22] <BedMan> crst: zfs is a filesystem, raid is a hardware solution.  You can use them together, or separately, but moving from one to the other is not possible on a running system without backing everything up, switching things and restoring it again.
[11:23] <weedmic> well, one could add the zfs drive and use rsync to move the data to it and remove the raid - but I have doubts there is added value in that.
[11:25] <BedMan> crst: it's also dependent if you have your boot disk on the raid volume...
[11:25] <BedMan> possible to move things if not, if so then backup, and rebuild with zfs
[11:26] <crst> BedMan: Gotcha! So it's not possible to have ZFS virtually on top of another FS. Since my filesystem is already set to something else an option would be to add new disks and make those ZFS, right?
[11:26] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[11:26] <BedMan> crst: yep
[11:26] <BedMan> hi BluesKaj
[11:42] <BluesKaj> hi BedMan
[12:41] <gareppa> hi, I'm trying to install xubuntu on an older machine, the live usb works perfectly, but when I reboot I get the blinking cursor on the upper left corner, cannot access any shell terminal. suggestions?
[12:41] <gareppa> it's bios, not uefi if it helps
[12:42] <gareppa> also on installation it cannot start snapd/unpack chromium
[12:43] <ioria> gareppa, what about Recovery ?
[12:43] <gareppa> maybe it's because i'm trying to use lvm with fulldisk encryption?
[12:43] <gareppa> mh...
[12:44] <ioria> lvm+luks it's a standard install, should not be a problem
[12:44] <lotuspsychje> gareppa: what kind of old machine is it
[12:46] <gareppa> pentium dual core e5200, motherboard this one https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/G31M-GS/
[12:48] <lotuspsychje> gareppa: what tool did you use to burn xubuntu on usb?
[12:48] <ioria> ram ?
[12:48] <gareppa> 2gb for now, more soon
[12:48] <gareppa> i used dd from the docs on ubuntu website
[12:48] <ioria> gareppa, again what about Recovery ?
[12:49] <gareppa> https://ubuntu.com/download/iot/installation-media
[12:49] <gareppa> you mean recovery from the livecd on the installation?
[12:49] <ioria> gareppa, nope, from Grub menu
[12:49] <ioria> gareppa, pressesc, if you don't see it at bootup
[12:49] <ioria> ESC
[12:50] <lotuspsychje> recovery mode ioria means gareppa
[12:51] <ioria> gareppa, i mean 'Advance Options' : https://linuxhint.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/image3-35.png
[12:51] <gareppa> that's the thing, the grub menu is still far away, as soon as the bios goes away, I have the blinking cursor. also, the disk does not seem to be reading anything
[12:51] <gareppa> nope, i do not get to the point of advanced options
[12:52] <ioria> gareppa, so you don't have Grub correctly installed, maybe ?
[12:53] <gareppa> maybe
[12:54] <ioria> gareppa, in this case, you need the installer, openluks, mount bind ,chroot and reinstall grub (or just reinstall)
[12:55] <gareppa> ok, I'll try that, thanks
[14:24] <jhutchins> !fixgrub
[14:24] <jhutchins> There is no need to reinstall.  That's for Windows.
[14:25] <jhutchins> gareppa: What sometimes happens is grub gets installed to a partition (/dev/sda1) when it needs to be installed to a device (/dev/sda).
[14:33] <jhutchins> ioria: I see you actually meant to reinstall grub, which is what the instructions above do.
[15:22] <Magissia> Hello, I have trouble using a thunderbolt 2 dock on a ThinkPad W540, connecting the dock adds "DSL4410 Thunderbolt Bridge [Redwood Ridge 2C 2013]" to the results of lspci, but DSL4410 Thunderbolt Bridge [Redwood Ridge 2C 2013] remain empty. dmesg |grep thunderbolt only shows thunderbolt is part of the boot commandline "Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-5.4.0-150-generic root=/dev/mapper/vgroot-lv_root ro rootflags=subvol=@ cryptdevice=UUID=801516
[15:22] <Magissia> c2-0263-4b2c-816c-2d3b24b16a64:root thunderbolt"
[15:25] <lotuspsychje> Magissia: can you explain what happens exactly after connecting the dock, and wich ubuntu release are you on?
[15:27] <Magissia> I'm on 18.04 (no upgrade in sight for me yet, kernel 5.4). What happens when connecting the dock is the whole interface freeze for 2 seconds, then new lines are shown if I do an lspci. there are few dmesg lines I do not understand
[15:27] <Magissia> Nothing else after that
[15:27] <Magissia> here's the dmesg lines https://kpaste.infomaniak.com/2iRegxk53Ywt3Rw5wAsANhMGoZhBZuaX#CgiapEksdJZyX264ryDFzHA12JZzmmSPnvZqKT1j46Ak
[15:28] <oerheks> what happens when you boot with the dock connected?
[15:28] <oerheks> 18.04 is EOl btw
[15:28] <Magissia> oerheks: Nothing
[15:28] <Magissia> oerheks: EOL hardware, cannot move forward AFAIK
[15:28] <Magissia> nvidia propreitary drivers wouldn't like it
[15:29] <oerheks> hmm run a memtest86 job
[15:29] <Magissia> passmark memtest didn't return errors last week, my issue isn't new I never managed to get this thunderbolt thing working
[15:30] <oerheks> oke, so it could be a failing dock
[15:30] <Magissia> I would need another thunderbolt 2 device to test then
[15:30] <Magissia> Correct ?
[15:31] <oerheks> yes
[15:31] <oerheks> or other 540
[15:31] <Magissia> Might be easier to get another W540 actually
[15:33] <Magissia> Not sure how you determined i'm using a 540
[15:33] <oerheks> Hello, I have trouble using a thunderbolt 2 dock on a ThinkPad W540, connecting the dock a
[15:33] <Magissia> Yes, forgot that part
[15:33] <oerheks> afaik that combo passed here before without issues
[15:34] <oerheks> so i wonder, is it the dock failing..
[15:34] <lotuspsychje> we do have a lot of thunderbolt/dock bugs around on LP
[15:35] <Magissia> I'm using a startech TB2DOCK4KDHC
[15:42] <Fantastic777> I'm in trouble...My Ubuntu 20.04 system shows static for a second on the left side of the screen, then the screen shifts. The image is clipped vertically from the left and shown on the left. ie, battery% and wifi icon, etc shows up on the left. https://ibb.co/YcRp4ZR See here(right side of the screen is shown on the left). Also mark the line of dots at the top left. After freezing, the capslock key doesnt register a light. the keyboard Fn keys
[15:42] <Fantastic777> don't work.
[15:42] <Fantastic777> Please help.
[15:43] <Magissia> Should the spec sheet specifically mention linux support for the TB2 dock ? (It is the case for the startech one, but i'd rather try a completely different brand while we are at it, and most only say macos)
[15:43] <thrice> Fantastic777: can you not update versions?  20.04 is pretty old
[15:43] <Magissia> Fantastic777: Are you able to reproduce the issue from the livecd ?
[15:43] <Fantastic777> See full image here: https://ibb.co/mbHdD98
[15:44] <thrice> or, boot a newer release via. USB and see if it goes away
[15:44] <Fantastic777> See gist here: https://gist.github.com/Ativerc/9ff73a1d0f3209e640c2fe08b7fcac94
[15:45] <Magissia> Fantastic777: It fails to fetch update atm, could you try to reproduce it from a livecd to exclude a configuration error?
[15:45] <Fantastic777> I don't have a liveusb at the moment. Also, reproducing the problem is hard since I don't know what causes it.
[15:46] <Fantastic777> Magissia, could you check my github gist link and see the nvidia packages that are being held back. Could that be causing the problems?
[15:48] <Magissia> Honestly i'm only good with servers and we don't have display issues over ssh. You're using gdm and I never used that (i'm using lightdm)
[15:49] <Fantastic777> thrice, Is upgrading without a fresh install AFTER making a backup of the home folder in another partition, safe?
[15:49] <Magissia> It's always safe if you have a working backup since you can restore
[15:50] <Magissia> Backup your whole system if installing the system back could be difficult for you
[15:51] <thrice> by no fresh install, you mean upgrading from 20.04 to 22.04?
[15:51] <Magissia> Honestly, you have the obs ppa, verify if restoring the packages from there to their default canonical provided version helps
[15:52] <Magissia> Also you're using snaps and I have no idea how it works, i remove snapd on my installations
[15:53] <Fantastic777> thrice, yes from 20.04 to 22.04
[15:54] <Fantastic777> i wanted to switch to popOS rather than upgrading this ubuntu 20.04
[15:55] <Magissia> You will have a different kernel and DE, would be a different experience
[15:55] <Magissia> Won't be an inplace upgrade there
[15:55] <Fantastic777> Magissia, hence trying to make sure i have 20,04 -> 22.04 as an upgrade otion for now.
[15:56] <Fantastic777> Okay I removed obs
[15:56] <Magissia> Make a full backup and go for it, if you're using btrfs you can make a snapshot, if you're using ext4 you can use timeshift
[15:56] <Fantastic777> i installed afew things yesterday and this didn't freeze up before that...
[15:57] <Fantastic777> Let's see what i did.
[15:57] <Magissia> Start by verifying that then
[15:59] <Fantastic777> installed programs: bat, aria2, gping, tldr
[16:00] <Fantastic777> removed bat and tldr
[16:00] <Fantastic777> keeping gping and aria2
[16:00] <Fantastic777> for now
[16:05] <Fantastic777> bye for now
[16:53] <db`> 12/ns identify Dondon
[16:54] <db`> fail
[16:58] <Zumo> hello all, quick question does any had an issue  were you delete a printer and it keeps showing up. I've checked lpstat its not listed, removed cups restarted PC and still is showing
[16:59] <Zumo> any ideas?
[17:04] <jhutchins> Zumo: How is the printer connected?
[17:20] <Zumo> wifi
[17:35] <jhutchins> zumba_addict: If you turn it off, does it stay deleted?  Where are you deleting it?  Gnome Printer Management?  CUPS?
[18:02] <xMopx> i have a ubuntu mirror via debmirror, and every few weeks clients using it see errors like E: Failed to fetch http://<my_domain>/ubuntu/dists/jammy-updates/main/cnf/Commands-amd64.xz  Hash Sum mismatch
[18:03] <xMopx> i think whats happening is the mirror im pulling from is updating at the same time as i'm updating, so i end up with a mismatched InRelease/Release files, which has the hash for the url above
[18:03] <xMopx> i've tried shifting what time i update by +/- 4 hours with no luck. How do I avoid this issue?
[18:07] <oerheks> a few fixes, but no prevent for such event, xMopx
[18:07] <oerheks> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1434130/hash-sum-mismatch-local-mirror
[18:09] <oerheks> and a curl --silent "thought", https://github.com/rsslack/fix-apt-mirror-hash-sum-mismatch/blob/master/update-zips.sh
[18:20] <xMopx> thanks oerheks, i like the look of that script. I was doing something like that but manually when i was debugging this
[18:32] <ogra> xMopx, i think there is also an IRC channel dedicated to ubuntu mirrors, perhaps other admins have hints 😉
[18:35] <boy> hello
[18:35] <sarnold> I think I'd avoid that update-zips.sh script
[18:35] <sarnold> hi boy
[18:35] <boy> hi
[18:36] <sarnold> xMopx: debmirror is just going to do that. rsync mirrors are far more reliable (though not perfect)
[18:36] <boy> hello
[18:36] <boy> help
[18:36] <boy> how i use browser
[18:37] <xMopx> hmm that sounds like a good idea too sarnold
[18:37] <xMopx> not super happy with how debmirror spend like an hour grinding through parsing metadata lol
[18:37] <boy> tell me
[18:38] <xMopx> although, with rsync mirrors, i think it is not possible to omit distros/components? Since all the debs end up in the one `pool` dir...
[18:38] <sarnold> boy: try running "firefox https://wiki.debian.org/GettingHelpOnIrc &"  in a terminal
[18:39] <sarnold> xMopx: pretty much :(
[18:48] <ravage> xMopx: if you have limited space maybe a proxy with cache (nginx for example) is enough?
[18:49] <ravage> set the cache size to the space you have and you should get almost the same result as with a complete mirror
[18:50] <ravage> i do that for steam. i dont have enough space to mirror steam :D
[18:58] <JJLOc> How to install mmc-utils on latest ubuntu ????
[18:58] <xMopx> that would probably work for my use case too.
[18:59] <ravage> cool. if you need help with the config let me know. but i think nginx + cache should give enough results
[18:59] <oerheks> !info mmc-utils
[18:59] <oerheks> enable universe
[18:59] <oerheks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mmc-utils
[19:01] <mmiller> hello everyone. since today I cannot boot my ubuntu 23.04 any longer without setting nomodeset in grub2 before booting. I suspect something is wrong with the amdgpu driver, as this is the last syslog line I get before the boot process finally is stuck (prior to even being able to show the password dialog for the LUKS encryption): amdgpu 0000:0d:00.0: [drm:jpeg_v4_0_early_init [amdgpu]] JPEG decode is enabled in VM mode
[19:01] <mmiller> the Xorg log file btw says "(EE) AMDGPU(0): [drm] Failed to open DRM device for pci:0000:0d:00.0: No such file or directory" before telling me that it unloaded the amdgpu module. It then goes on trying to load the ati_drv module, which doesn't seem to be compatible with my GPU.
[19:02] <mmiller> Yesterday I installed an upgrade for the package "linux-firmware" which I somewhat suspect to be the culprit, honestly. however, I have no idea what to do now honestly and I'd be happy if someone could maybe point me into the right direction :)
[19:02] <JJLOc> oerheks, thanks
[19:02] <JJLOc> i had it installed but only source
[19:02] <JJLOc> how to build i t
[19:02] <ayjay_t> What's the go to package for backlight brightness management?
[19:02] <JJLOc> sudo apt install gcc . gcc mmc.c -o mmc ??
[19:03] <gordonjcp> JJLOc: that looks about right
[19:04] <ravage> mmiller: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware/+bug/2029396 this one maybe?
[19:04] <gordonjcp> JJLOc: "sudo apt install gcc && gcc mmc.c -o mmc"
[19:04] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2029396 in linux-firmware (Ubuntu) "20230323.gitbcdcfbcf-0ubuntu1.4 borks amdgpu" [Undecided, New]
[19:04] <gordonjcp> JJLOc: what are you trying to do?
[19:04] <JJLOc> gordonnjcp, change cid on mmc card
[19:04] <mmiller>  @ravage: hah, I guess that's it. gpu matches :D
[19:05] <ravage> so downloading the old package and install it should solve it for now
[19:05] <ogra> JJLOc, and why do you not just use the binary package for this ?
[19:05] <ravage> mmiller: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-firmware/linux-firmware_20230323.gitbcdcfbcf-0ubuntu1.2_all.deb
[19:05] <JJLOc> ogra, where are they ?
[19:05] <mmiller> I will try. basically just getting the right .deb and install via "dpkg -i"?
[19:06] <ogra> JJLOc, sudo apt install mmc-utils
[19:06] <ravage> mmiller: yep
[19:06] <JJLOc> ogra, not working
[19:06] <mmiller> cool. I will give it a try soon and will report back. thanks!
[19:06] <oerheks> enable universe?
[19:06] <ogra> JJLOc, thats not an error description 😉 ...
[19:06] <oerheks> they are there
[19:07] <ogra> JJLOc, what did you try, what happened, what did you expect when you tried ?
[19:07] <ravage> mmiller: if that works please mark yourself as affected and maybe add a comment too
[19:07] <JJLOc> oerheks, can you share universe mirror link ?
[19:08] <oerheks> sudo add-apt-repository universe
[19:08] <ogra> JJLOc, it should be in your sources.list already ... depending on how you installed your system it might be commented out, just edit the sources.list in this case and enable it
[19:08] <ravage> JJLOc: sudo add-apt-repository universe
[19:08] <oerheks> or your guig
[19:08] <ogra> or do what the others said 😉
[19:08] <oerheks> =g
[19:09] <mmiller> @ravage: sounds like a good idea, for sure :)
[19:10] <JJLOc> ogra, thanks i google that and add-apt-repository universe add it in source.list :)
[19:10] <ogra> great ... now just install it and be done 🙂
[19:12] <JJLOc> mmc <cmd> --help
[19:12] <JJLOc> yep it works thanks 10x
[19:12] <mmiller> @ravage: it's fixed \o/ thanks for saving me so much time!
[19:12] <ravage> \o/
[19:13] <mmiller> you're my personal hero of the day :D
[19:13] <mmiller> now I just need to create an account and +1 on the ticket :)
[20:13] <ztane> hngh, I wonder if anyone else is having snap firefox killing cookies, local storages *every week*
[20:14] <tarzeau> no more: https://github.com/alexmyczko/autoexec.bat/blob/master/config.sys/ubuntu-remove-snap-firefox
[20:14] <ztane> tarzeau: yea so about to. :(
[20:14] <tarzeau> well i'm going a step further and replacing all our ubuntu 22.04 w/ debian 12 :)
[20:15] <tarzeau> on-the-fly
[20:15] <ztane> sounds even better.
[20:15] <ztane> I feel this is a plot to try to get last users of firefox to that google garbage
[20:15] <oerheks> ...
[20:16] <thrice> spoiler, debian ships oooold FF
[20:16] <ztane> it is never anything else but the entire session/cookie storage gone then I need to relogin to these 2000 sites again.
[20:16] <thrice> there is a good ubuntu PPA for debs
[20:17] <ztane> I don't what's happening any more
[20:17] <oerheks> maybe the cookies itself are limited in time
[20:17] <ztane> no, it clears *all* at once.
[20:17] <ztane> every single website where I've logged in.
[20:18] <oerheks> Firefox 91 Introduces Enhanced Cookie Clearing
[20:18] <ztane> browser crashes, all gone :P
[20:18] <oerheks> lolz
[20:19] <oerheks> Strict Tracking Protection https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/08/10/firefox-91-introduces-enhanced-cookie-clearing/
[20:20] <ztane> can't be that :(
[20:20] <ztane> it doesn't happen e.g. the windoze that I unfortunately need to use occasionally
[20:21] <oerheks> see if it happens with the deb version
[20:22] <ztane> yea going to :( cookies + site data says all these sites are storing loads of data.
[20:23] <ztane> fortunately I've got yubikey for MFA :d using TOTP would make me totally insane
[20:29] <ayjay_t> What's the go-to package for backlight brightness management? Using a monitor on a server install.
[20:32] <ravage> ayjay_t: https://pod.haxxors.com/posts/1131210
[20:32] <thrice> brightnessctl, perhaps?
[20:40] <highrate> latest bitchx on latest ubuntu compile for anyone else?
[20:40] <highrate> i think its newer gcc versions
[20:43] <UndrWater> Is it possible to install Ubuntu server from a standard Ubuntu install USB?
[20:44] <thrice> that's a vague question, but "ubuntu-server" is a metapackage
[20:44] <thrice> n
[20:45] <oerheks> not sure bitchx is SALS compatible
[20:45] <ravage> UndrWater: you install it from the ubuntu server iso
[20:46] <oerheks> highrate, of no use with #libera https://libera.chat/guides/sasl
[20:46] <oerheks> latest version 2014 🤣
[20:47] <UndrWater> ravage: so that means no go with the graphical iso?
[20:48] <oerheks> UndrWater, sure, but you loose cpu power to a desktop.
[20:48] <oerheks> if you want so, use a lightweight one like xubuntu, standard is gnome
[20:49] <UndrWater> oerheks: just hoping there was a way to install server from the USB I already had running. I'll create a server USB.
[20:50] <oerheks> No, after install you would need to remove the desktop metapackage.. easier to start over with server iso indeed
[20:51] <UndrWater> Ok. I was hoping for some kind of "secret handshake". Thanks!
[21:03] <cbreak> you can install stuff manually via debootstrap
[21:03] <cbreak> but it's very inconvenient
[21:16] <UndrWater> cbreak: so...easier to use the server iso. it's writing now. appreciate the help folks.
[21:16] <cbreak> indeed
[21:16] <cbreak> UndrWater: do you know ventoy?
[21:17] <UndrWater> cbreak: sounds familiar, but not sure why
[21:17] <cbreak> I've tried it a few times and it seems quite convenient
[21:17] <cbreak> it's a boot usb software that allows you to boot from any iso or other image that you copy to it
[21:17] <cbreak> no need to make a separate usb stick for each system
[21:18] <UndrWater> i see. looks useful.
[21:18] <cbreak> I have a stick that can boot various kubuntu versions, stock ubuntu, server ubuntu, some other linuxes, and even windows.
[21:18] <cbreak> (at least they claim it supports windows, I've not tried that)
[21:18] <UndrWater> i made something like that a few years ago.
[21:18] <UndrWater> but the images get outdated so quickly
[21:20] <cbreak> ubuntu lts seems to stay relevant for some time, and some of the tool images (memtest, ...) as well.
[21:21] <cbreak> but I mostly use it to not have to deal with etcher or what ever
[21:24] <oerheks> basicly when grub is installed ..
[22:09] <floogy> Hi, I somewhat pushed nano in a mode that I don't know, now it doesn't react on ctrl+ cmds like ^X
[22:10] <floogy> I can't quit it.
[22:11] <jax> ctrl+D and ctrl+C don't do anything at all?
[22:12] <Aavar_> floogy: escape?
[22:12] <floogy> It shows: [ Zeile 33/66 (50%), Spalte 43/52 ( 82%), Zeichen 1049/1991 (52%) ] above the cmds on bottom. (de->en: Zeile:line, Spalte: column, Zeichen: char)
[22:12] <oerheks> one of these ? https://www.nano-editor.org/dist/v2.1/nano.html#Feature-Toggles
[22:12] <jax> are you sure it's nano?
[22:12] <floogy> No, ESC, CTRL+Z, CRTL+D or the like do nothing.
[22:13] <jax> ctrl+G should show help info
[22:13] <Aavar_> floogy: if it's a one time deal you kan kill it from another terminal.
[22:13] <floogy> I don't know the meta key
[22:13] <jax> meta key?
[22:14] <floogy> oerheks, Meta-Z should do the trick
[22:15] <floogy> jax, none of the CTRL+ cmds are functional in this mode
[22:16] <jax> and it shows nothing in the first row, and  no commands at the bottom?
[22:16] <floogy> Aavar_, okay. I'll log into another ssh.
[22:17] <jax> btw, from nano's help: Meta-key sequences are notated with 'M-' and can be entered
[22:17] <jax>  using either the Alt, Cmd, or Esc key, depending on your keyboard setup.
[22:17] <jax> pressing F2 should quit nano as well
[22:17] <floogy> jax, thank you. I'll try esc then ...
[22:19] <floogy> nothing works, I'll ssh into another console and killall nano
[22:19] <floogy>   GNU nano 6.2
[22:20] <floogy> Puffer in config/config.php.save geschrieben (wrote buffer into ...)
[22:22] <floogy> Ah, I think it's more an issue of GNOME-Terminal, because thea terminal isn't functional.
[22:31] <floogy> Terminal>read only is set. I unselected that. Now it works. What's the short-key for that? It seems, I used CRTL+S. In a Terminal CRTL+Q or C seems to unfreeze it. I#m not sure though https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/12107/how-to-unfreeze-after-accidentally-pressing-ctrl-s-in-a-terminal
[22:59] <Guest8481> hi
[23:55] <Thejox> hi


[13:35] <jose> mhall119: ping
[13:35] <mhall119> jose: pong
[13:35] <jose> mhall119: I saw an event change in my inbox, what was it?
[13:35] <jose> I can't seem to track it
[13:36] <mhall119> jose: for the UE Live!?
[13:37] <jose> yeah
[13:37] <mhall119> not that I made...
[13:37] <jose> oh well
[13:37] <jose> maybe it was an update for an unchanged event
[13:37] <jose> happens sometimes
[13:38] <mhall119> maybe, we don't have it this week anyway, since we're on alternating weeks now
[13:38] <mhall119> jose: you should ask jono if he's doing his Q&A though, since we're at a sprint
[13:38] <jose> mhall119: oh, I know, he cancelled it in our call last week :)
[13:38] <jose> thanks for the heads up, though :)
[13:54] <mhall119> no
[13:54] <mhall119> problem


[07:20] <dpm> good morning all
[07:26] <dholbach> good morning
[07:30] <dpm> morning dholbach
[07:31] <dholbach> hola dpm
[07:34] <nigelb> hello dpm, dholbach, and ara :)
[07:34] <dholbach> hey nigelb - happy birthday
[07:35] <nigelb> dholbach: Thanks. Its been a great day so far. Spontanous party planned over twitter :P
[08:03] <kim0> Morning all
[08:04] <nigelb> hello kim0
[08:04] <kim0> nigelb: hey o/ how's it going
[08:07] <nigelb> kim0: Pretty good :) Turned 23 today :)
[08:07]  * kim0 brings the cake :)
[08:07] <kim0> nigelb: Happy B-day man :) \o/
[08:13] <dholbach> salut huats
[08:13] <dholbach> comment ça va?
[08:13] <huats> hello dholbach !
[08:13] <huats> I am fine thanks  ! how are you ?
[08:14] <dholbach> bien bien :)
[08:15] <dholbach> kim0, huats est le gens qui a travaillé avec bbb!
[08:15] <huats> kim0, you speak french too ?
[08:16] <huats> dholbach, regarding bbb it is really interesting, but the version we have tried (the latest one) is a bit buggy with the sound (there is a 2 sec delay)
[08:17] <huats> it is a know bug and it willbe fixed in the next release
[08:17] <huats> so we are waiting for it to test it more and start using it widely
[08:17] <dholbach> huats, kim0 works with ensemble - and thought it'd be awesome to have an ensemble formula for it
[08:18] <huats> oh ok
[08:18] <huats> I know he is working with ensemble
[08:18] <huats> indeed it is a good idea
[08:18] <huats> kim0, I might be interesting in doing it
[08:18] <huats> I have never done that kind of stuff (and I was thinking to do it)
[08:19] <dholbach> huats, you might have just become the next new best friend of kim0 and jcastro :)
[08:19] <huats> :)
[08:19] <huats> dholbach, you mean that I wasn't already ? ;)
[08:22] <dholbach> if you weren't you have good chances now :)
[08:34] <kim0> oh crap .. no irssi terminal beeps under unity .. reading up
[08:34] <kim0> lol
[08:34] <kim0> huats: Indeed you are :)
[08:35] <kim0> huats: can I file a bug and assign to you ? what's ur LP name
[08:39] <huats> christophe.sauthier
[08:39] <huats> and yes you can
[08:39] <huats> :)
[08:40] <huats> kim0, go ahead
[08:42] <kim0> huats: bbb doesn't seem to need a DB ?!
[08:42] <huats> bbb it needs one
[08:42] <huats> (afair)
[08:43] <kim0> bug 809186
[08:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 809186 in principia "Formula needed: BigBlueButton" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809186
[08:43] <kim0> huats: done ^
[08:43] <huats> kim0, great
[08:43] <huats> :)
[08:43] <huats> I have a look at it early next week
[08:43] <huats> (or before but it seems complicated)
[08:43] <kim0> huats: once you start working on it, ping me .. I think it's gonna be pretty easy for ya
[08:44] <huats> kim0, I will
[08:44] <kim0> might just be copy/pasting those installation instructions into ensemble's install hook et voila
[08:44] <huats> :)
[08:44] <kim0> cool :)
[09:32] <czajkows1i> aloha
[13:17] <jcastro> omg huats
[15:22] <jcastro> kim0: holla at me when you're back
[15:23] <kim0> jcastro: I am
[15:23] <kim0> was editing a bit on the ensemble report
[15:24] <jcastro> ok, where do you get the new info from?
[15:24] <jcastro> I was reading the trunk changelog
[15:24] <jcastro> but it seems like you got most of that last week
[15:24] <jcastro> so are you just integrating from the pending merge proposals?
[15:37] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek Day 2 starting in 23 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[15:38] <dholbach> hey jono
[15:38] <jono> hey dholbach
[16:00] <dholbach> UDW day 2 started and I need to rush out, so have a great rest of your day everyone - see you tomorrow
[17:51] <jcastro> http://ubuntuone.com/p/1487/
[17:51] <jcastro> today is a good day!
[18:55] <jcastro> jono: there should be a list of events that robbie and I went through in your inbox
[18:56] <jono> jcastro, yup, got it
[18:56] <jono> will respond soon
[18:56] <jono> just in calls
[18:56] <jcastro> \m/
[21:18] <czajkowski> evening chaparoos
[21:28] <paultag> howdy doodie czajkowski
[21:32] <czajkowski> paultag: didnt get yesterdays job which was part 2 of interview :(
[21:32] <paultag> czajkowski: :(
[21:32] <czajkowski> but did get date for injections into my back
[21:32] <paultag> czajkowski: you'll pull through
[21:32] <czajkowski> I hope so, hate not working and getting so disheartened
[21:32] <czajkowski> hae community week stuff to prepare as well for next week
[21:32] <czajkowski> should keep me occupied
[21:33] <paultag> yar


[02:08] <sarnold> Bashing-om: I'm not sure he's in a graphics environment
[02:10] <Bashing-om> sarnold: I am only sure he is not all there :P running the Wayland protocol - maybe :D
[02:10] <sarnold> Bashing-om: hehehe
[02:10] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Be aware I have so much I could learn :D
[05:55] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:24] <tomreyn> !crosspost
[12:02] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:53] <pragmaticenigma> !bodhi
[14:01] <EoflaOE> Hello BluesKaj
[14:01] <lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
[14:01] <EoflaOE> Hello lotuspsychje. How are you?
[14:01] <lotuspsychje> all good here
[14:01] <BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE
[14:02] <EoflaOE> All fine too, lotuspsychje
[14:02] <EoflaOE> BluesKaj, How are you
[14:02] <BluesKaj> fine here too EoflaOE
[14:03] <EoflaOE> Yes. All is fine.
[14:04] <EoflaOE> Have you seen the new changes about design and GNOME that Ubuntu made?
[14:04] <lotuspsychje> url EoflaOE ?
[14:05] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: I will get links. In my blog.
[14:06] <EoflaOE> https://eofla.wordpress.com/2019/08/28/ubuntu-19-10-eoan-ermine-gets-new-beta-version-of-gnome-with-bug-fixes/
[14:07] <EoflaOE> https://eofla.wordpress.com/2019/08/26/ubuntu-19-10-eoan-ermine-is-updated-with-the-new-yaru-design-changes/
[14:18] <EoflaOE> How is it lotuspsychje?
[14:18] <lotuspsychje> looking nice EoflaOE
[14:19] <EoflaOE> Thanks lotuspychje
[14:21] <lordcirth_> EoflaOE, the purple lines are on top of the text for me
[14:21] <lordcirth_> Or at least, they make it quite hard to read
[14:22] <EoflaOE> lordcirth_: I will fix it soon.
[14:23] <lordcirth_> EoflaOE, ok. Also, "some users might not appeal it" is incorrect
[14:23] <lordcirth_> "might not find it appealing", perhaps?
[14:23] <EoflaOE> lordcirth_: Sounds better.
[14:25] <EoflaOE> lordcirth_: Fixed it. The incorrect "might not appeal it"
[15:00] <lordcirth_> cool
[15:04] <EoflaOE> Thanks lordcirth_, and hello marcoagpinto
[15:04] <marcoagpinto> hello EoflaOE!
[15:04] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:05] <marcoagpinto> I had a date this morning and I updated the GB speller before heading for it
[15:05] <EoflaOE> Nice, so how are you? And how is the date?
[15:06] <marcoagpinto> well, my girlfriend arrived 30 minutes late but it's okay
[15:06] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:06] <marcoagpinto> any news?
[15:06] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: There has been recent design changes about Ubuntu, and I am finishing KS 0.0.7.
[15:06] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: what? For 19.10?
[15:06] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:07] <marcoagpinto> are there any screenshots?
[15:07] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: I had screenshots in my blog.
[15:07] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:07] <marcoagpinto> I forgot the link
[15:08] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: The first two blog posts should explain. It's https://eofla.wordpress.com
[15:08] <marcoagpinto> let me check
[15:12] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: It looks good. I am glad it went back to the old trash-bin image on the desktop :)
[15:13] <marcoagpinto> and why does the "key" image on authentication keeps changing in every version?
[15:13] <EoflaOE> ? In my screenshots I have modified the icons in Tweaks, marcoagpinto. Unsure of why would they change the key icon
[15:14] <marcoagpinto> well, in the last few years the key image has changed
[15:14] <marcoagpinto> but always ugly
[15:14] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:14] <marcoagpinto> sorry for telling my opinion
[15:15] <marcoagpinto> https://eofla.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/ubuntu1910_alpha_newlook9.png
[15:15] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: OK. By the way, in my screenshots, I have changed the icon theme to the old one.
[15:15] <marcoagpinto> at least in 19.10 it will look nicer
[15:15] <marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhh
[15:16] <EoflaOE> Yes, and have you seen the newest GDM style?
[15:16] <marcoagpinto> I don't know what a GMD is?
[15:16] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:17] <EoflaOE> GMD? No, it's GDM3.
[15:17] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:17] <marcoagpinto> I still don't know what it is
[15:17] <marcoagpinto> :p
[15:18] <marcoagpinto> is it "Gnu something"?
[15:18] <EoflaOE> GDM3 is the GNOME display manager. It's a login screen. Ubuntu used it by default since the transition to GNOME 3.
[15:18] <marcoagpinto> ahhhhhhhh
[15:18] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:19] <marcoagpinto> basically I only use Ubuntu to compile my dictionary tool :)
[15:19] <marcoagpinto> I don't have deep knowledge of it
[15:20] <EoflaOE> OK.
[15:21] <marcoagpinto> talking about it, I was very stressed and copied to the shared folder the Windows version of PureBasic instead of the Linux version...
[15:21] <marcoagpinto> when I ran Ubuntu to try it, it was an .exe file in the shared forlder
[15:21] <marcoagpinto> folder*
[15:21] <marcoagpinto> :(((((((((((
[15:21] <marcoagpinto> I have been so stressed
[15:22] <marcoagpinto> a new version of PureBasic was released last week
[15:22] <marcoagpinto> or was it two weeks ago? I can't really remember right now
[15:22] <EoflaOE> Nice. Can you copy the Linux version?
[15:23] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: copy? It is in my PureBasic account for Windows, Linux and Mac
[15:23] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:24] <marcoagpinto> so, I copied to a pen drive, turned on the other machine, installed the Windows version and copied the Linux version to the shared folder
[15:24] <marcoagpinto> then, ran VirtualBox and when I tried to access the file, it was an .exe :(
[15:24] <marcoagpinto> (Windows)
[15:25] <EoflaOE> How did you install the Windows version?
[15:26] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: with a double-click in the .exe file
[15:26] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:26] <marcoagpinto> I copied both 32- and 64-bit to the desktop and clicked on them
[15:26] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:27] <marcoagpinto> but I was so stressed that I didn't notice the pen drive had the "windows" folder open instead of "linux"
[15:27] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:27] <marcoagpinto> so, I copied the wrong file to the shared folder :)
[15:28] <EoflaOE> Try again but copy the correct file to the shared folder. Double check the Windows and Linux versions to ensure that you are copying the correct version.
[15:28] <marcoagpinto> I know :)
[15:29] <marcoagpinto> the Linux is a gzip
[15:29] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:29] <marcoagpinto> I was stressed and didn't notice the file extension
[15:29] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:30] <marcoagpinto> I mean: "tgz"
[15:30] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:30] <marcoagpinto> I was just checking
[15:30] <EoflaOE> OK. Is it copying?
[15:30] <marcoagpinto> I have the 14'' laptop turned off
[15:30] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:31] <marcoagpinto> so, right now it is not doing anything
[15:31] <marcoagpinto> :p
[15:31] <marcoagpinto> I will try it tomorrow or so
[15:31] <marcoagpinto> I only wanted to test the latest PureBasic to see if they fixed two Linux bugs:
[15:31] <marcoagpinto> 1) using "&" in pop-up menus get a "_"
[15:32] <marcoagpinto> 2) the emoji text are always displayed in black
[15:32] <EoflaOE> OK.
[15:33] <marcoagpinto> the damn emoji colour used to work in Ubuntu 16.04
[15:33] <marcoagpinto> now the emoji are always black
[15:34] <EoflaOE> And you can't change the color?
[15:34] <marcoagpinto> SetGadgetColour(#TEXT,#Red)
[15:34] <marcoagpinto> it changes the text colour but not the emojis that are in the text
[15:35] <marcoagpinto> the emojis are displayed in black
[15:36] <EoflaOE> OK. If you can, test the latest version, and if the problem is not fixed, tell me.
[15:41] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: thanks
[15:41] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:41] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: You are welcome
[15:41] <marcoagpinto> I am not sure if it is a GTK3 issue since I used GTK2 in the past
[15:41] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:44] <EoflaOE> OK
[15:44] <marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: https://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72512
[15:44] <marcoagpinto> here is my bug report
[15:44] <marcoagpinto> :)
[15:46] <EoflaOE> I saw it.
[16:10] <marcoagpinto> bbl
[16:10] <marcoagpinto> :)
[20:48] <OerHeks> yay, https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/opensource/2019/08/28/exfat-linux-kernel/
[20:49] <OerHeks> now ext3/4 standard in ms windows ,,,
[21:00] <tomreyn> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/exfat-specification#11-documentation-change-history 2010 -> 2019
[21:03] <tomreyn> so that's CC-BY-SA 4.0 Intl. apparently. now "just" someone needs to write the code and submit patches to linux.
[21:03] <tomreyn> + maintain it.
[21:06] <tomreyn> or maybe we can now use samsungs'
[21:10] <OerHeks> If i could code, i would.
[21:13] <leftyfb> OerHeks: your 2nd comment above was meant to be "now we just need ext3/4 standard in ms windows" right? Because that's not what the article says
[21:25] <tomreyn> hmm it doesn't even support hard or symbolic links, no block journalling. no FS encryption, no data checksumming
[21:28] <tomreyn> also no offline or online resizing, no sparse files
[21:31] <OerHeks> leftyfb, yes, that would make it coplete
[21:31] <OerHeks> c/complete
[21:34] <tomreyn> basically, exfat seems to lack any form of journalling (other than through the texfat extension, which is hardware specific, and was apparently only used in windows CE)
[21:36] <tomreyn> so unless they drive the spec and code further i don't see how it helps much other than maybe for a scary data exchange platform with linux.
[21:36] <OerHeks> azure, kubernetes, lots in my mind for this
[21:40] <tomreyn> in its current state it's useless for that.
[22:54] <tomreyn> OerHeks: i guess it'd indeed be good to have ubuntu declare the signing key fingerprints for the default apt sources in sources.list.
[22:54] <OerHeks> for each one a key?
[22:56] <tomreyn> i.e.   deb [signed-by=F6ECB3762474EDA9D21B7022871920D1991BC93C] http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic main restricted
[22:57] <tomreyn> this would prevent any mirror servers from injecting packages
[22:58] <tomreyn> (which could be signed by keys your system also happens to trust)
[22:58] <sarnold> but they have complete root on your system
[22:59] <sarnold> with whatever package they *do* have
[23:00] <tomreyn> sarnold: you mean a diffierent package you already have installed?
[23:00] <OerHeks> hoi KOLANICH
[23:01] <KOLANICH> >the problem the script solves is the following. Let's assumme there are several repos added into sources.lists and several keys. Let's assume that some repos are accessed via an insecure channel and/or hosted on a rogue hosting (but signing InRelease is beyond adversary access because he doesn't know private key). Let's assume that adversary has managed to get access to private key of some other repo installed into system. If all the repâ
[23:01] <OerHeks> i was looking at debsums too
[23:01] <sarnold> tomreyn: yeah; eg you install a repo for google to let you install hangouts.. the hangouts pre/post inst/rm scripts have full root. they can do anything. whoever controls that private key has complete control over your computer. you have to trust them. completely.
[23:01] <KOLANICH> >…os are not bound to public keys he can combine compromised key with compromised connection and get RCE. If they are bound, he cannot.
[23:01] <KOLANICH> >So I wonder why doesn't Ubuntu bind keys to sources by default. It is a trivial to do, I don't see any good reason not to do that.
[23:02] <tomreyn> sarnold: yes, that's a systemic problem. and not one we can easily solve, i think.
[23:02] <sarnold> tomreyn: definitely. :) I've thuoght for many years that it'd be nice to have something like apparmor confined apt/dpkg/rpm/zypper etc but .. it's just not the way those tools are written.
[23:03] <sarnold> tomreyn: snap is close, it was designed with this problem in mind, so it doesn't have full unconfined root pre/post inst/rm scripts. (or at least it didn't, I hope it hasn't gained them since the last time I looked)
[23:05] <tomreyn> i couldn't tell about snaps, i only know there is a concept of different 'trust' levels there, defaulting to confed, but unconfined is possible if allowed by snap shop operaters.
[23:05] <tomreyn> s/confed/confined/
[23:06] <tomreyn> snaps and other similar concepts may be a solution to *this* problem (while introducing others) for 3rd party software repositories.
[23:08] <tomreyn> KOLANICH: discussion here before you joined the channel https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Mv84RfGPs2/
[23:08] <sarnold> yes, unconfined snaps are available; I don't know much about the criteria we use when deciding to allow/forbid those
[23:08] <OerHeks> unconfined, for offline install?
[23:08] <KOLANICH> the problem of all self-sufficient packages is overhead. I feel like we need something better, like fine-grained permissions to overwrite certain files. And we definitely should get rid of bash in apt packages and replace them with a declarative manifest.
[23:09] <KOLANICH> tomreyn: thank you
[23:10] <tomreyn> https://snapcraft.io/docs/snap-confinement https://snapcraft.io/blog/demystifying-snap-confinement
[23:11] <tomreyn> KOLANICH: if you're happy to help debian design apt v2, by all means, please do!
[23:11] <KOLANICH> BTW, Debian manual says to prefer key files over fingerprint. Probably as a mitigation against insecure hash functions.
[23:15] <tomreyn> sarnold: indeed, documenting criteria for such pretty relevant decision making processes are not the snap ecosystems' strong part.
[23:16] <tomreyn> this specific part is described here, though: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/process-for-reviewing-classic-confinement-snaps/1460