[12:43] <Satoris> With new daily builds, gestures work out of the box. Three fingers is still too fast, though.
[12:46] <Satoris> Then again network is broken on my laptop. You win some, you lose some.
[14:01]  * tvoss notes that green is the new black :)
[14:13] <cnd> Satoris, I just merged a fix into geis last night that should make the three touch drag more appropriately fast
[14:13] <cnd> I wonder if the daily builds have run yet...
[14:13] <bregma> nope
[14:13] <tvoss> iterated chromium patch and commented on feedback from devs, jenkins work and an itv
[14:14] <cnd> tvoss, itv?
[14:14] <tvoss> cnd, interview
[14:14] <cnd> ahh
[14:15] <bregma> I have a nice little geis merge request pending if someone is looking for something to do
[14:15] <cnd> bregma, yeah, will get to that soon
[14:15] <cnd> I will be reviewing bregma's patch today :), and then helping dandrader with anything he needs to get unity gesture fixes merged
[14:16] <cnd> and when the archive freeze lifts, I'll be pushing packages
[14:16] <bregma> will the freeze lift or is it staying in release freeze until release?
[14:16] <cnd> Satoris, dandrader: standups!
[14:17] <cnd> bregma, it will lift
[14:17] <cnd> bregma, final freeze is in 2 weeks
[14:17] <dandrader> I'm updating my patch that fixes the dragging of windows with 3 fingers in unity according to the review comments it received
[14:17] <bregma> are you planning to do all the packages or should we divide and conquer?
[14:17] <dandrader> Then I'll work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/utouch-geis/+bug/967605
[14:18] <cnd> bregma, we can divide and conquer
[14:18] <cnd> I'm fine either way
[14:18] <cnd> bregma, oh, I was also thinking of trying to fix make distcheck on as many packages as possible too
[14:19] <bregma> I didn;t realize it was broken
[14:19] <cnd> it is on grail and frame at least
[14:19] <cnd> or it was on grail
[14:19] <cnd> it might work now that jussi fixed the recording path issue
[14:19] <cnd> I suspect geis is broken too
[14:20] <bregma> not last time i checked
[14:20] <bregma> I'll check all the packages today, I don't want to start any new bugfixes until after release
[14:21] <bregma> anyone know if #940308 is still an issue after the recent frail changes?
[14:21] <bregma> s/frail/grail/
[14:21] <cnd> heh
[14:21]  * bregma thinks there are too many different keys on the keyboard
[14:21] <cnd> bregma, I'm guessing it's fixed now
[14:21] <bregma> I'm sure all our recent changes were robust
[14:22] <cnd> but someone needs to verify for sure
[14:22] <bregma> hmm, OK, I'll check that too
[14:23] <Satoris> Sorry for the delay, was talking with olli.
[14:24] <bregma> dandrader, do you think you'll have #967605 fixed today (ie. before the geis-2.2.8 release)?
[14:24] <Satoris> Did the script thingie. Also tested somewhat.
[14:25] <dandrader> bregma, yes. I have it fixed on my test application, using std stuff from C++. Now it's just a matter of adapting it to pure C for the grail backend in utouch-geis
[14:26] <bregma> how hard can it be? %}
[14:28] <dandrader> :) just a bit frustrating
[14:39] <cnd> Satoris, for the bug counter stuff, we want: all bugs that are for projects with a structural subscription for utouch-bugs, and all ubuntu package bugs subscribed by utouch-bugs
[14:39] <cnd> we don't need to manually specify the projects we care about because launchpad can get all that info for us
[14:40] <bregma> er, what's a "structural subscription"?
[14:41] <cnd> bregma, it's when you subscribe a team to all the bugs for a project
[14:41] <cnd> rather than directly subscribing to each individual bug
[14:42] <Satoris> cnd: you mean this https://bugs.launchpad.net/~utouch-bugs/+packagebugs
[14:43] <cnd> Satoris, no, for packages we can search for all the bugs we are directly subscribed to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=utouch-bugs
[14:43] <cnd> it should be possible to do the same thing that search query does, but in launchpadlib
[14:44] <cnd> look at the ls-team-subscribed-package-tasks.py script in arsenal
[14:44] <Satoris> The script already does that as far as I can see.
[14:44] <Satoris> In addition it will add all bugs from specified projects, because utouch-bugs is not subscribed to those.
[14:47] <cnd> Satoris, oh! I think I see what's going on
[14:47] <cnd> you found a way to get all direct subscriptions for all bugs
[14:48] <cnd> I had thought that was impossible due to a bug in lp that was timing everything out
[14:48] <Satoris> For utouch-bugs? Yes.
[14:48] <cnd> yeah
[14:48] <cnd> Satoris, however, we're still missing the piece that gets all the bugs from the structurally subscribed packages
[14:48] <cnd> basically, you manually listed the packages
[14:48] <Satoris> Olli asked me to put the script to helipad, so I will do that once it's good.
[14:48] <cnd> but we should be querying for what packages are structurally subscribed
[14:48] <cnd> helipad?
[14:48] <Satoris> lp:helipad
[14:49] <cnd> hmm
[14:49] <Satoris> So where in lp do you get the structural subscription info? A web page is enough to get me started.
[14:50] <cnd>  look at the ls-team-subscribed-package-tasks.py script in arsenal
[14:50] <Satoris> Will do. But there isn't a web page that shows it directly?
[14:50] <cnd> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~arsenal-devel/arsenal/master/view/head:/scripts/ls-team-subscribed-package-tasks.py
[14:51] <cnd> and we'll want to do the same for projects if possible
[15:15] <cnd> bregma, just reviewed your MP
[15:17] <cnd> bregma, fyi, the jenkins build isn't running the integration tests
[15:17] <cnd> need to figure out why that is...
[15:19] <cnd> oh, it's run with ./configure --without-integration-tests...
[15:21] <cnd> bregma, we should remove the --without-integration-tests from the geis packaging
[15:22] <cnd> it should be automatically set to no in the archive because xorg-gtest isn't installed
[15:22] <cnd> but it is on jenkins
[15:22] <cnd> I'll remove it right now :)
[15:24] <bregma> please test in a pbuilder to make sure the distro builds do not break
[15:24] <bregma> I really hate that
[15:25] <cnd> will do
[15:27] <cnd> bregma, I wasn't aware of the dh --parallel flag
[15:27] <cnd> we should add that to all our stuff :)
[15:27]  * cnd sings "The more you know..." tune from the nbc commercials
[15:27] <bregma> you know it breaks dh_install, right?
[15:27] <cnd> oh?
[15:27] <cnd> bregma, how does it work for geis?
[15:28] <bregma> actually, I'm wrong
[15:28] <bregma> dh_install ignores it, "make install" fails with -jN where N > 1
[15:28] <cnd> ahh
[15:28] <bregma> a lot of Debian sponsors strongly suggest you use it in all your packaging
[15:29] <cnd> makes sense
[15:30] <bregma> the dh sequencer and all its little dh_friends is the greatest thing since sliced bread
[15:30] <bregma> even if joeyh is a bit sructy sometimes
[15:30] <bregma> um, crusty
[15:30] <cnd> heh, structy
[15:31] <bregma> I used to accidentally type integer where I means in after doing too much fortran programming
[15:31] <bregma> my fingers would just keep on going
[15:33] <cnd> heh
[15:33] <cnd> bregma, I see you filter out the jquery.js file at install time for geis
[15:33] <cnd> has the system-installed jquery been updated so it doesn't break the docs?
[15:37] <bregma> cnd, yes, the system jquery.js work fine with the docs, and lintian is happy with the packaged one removed
[15:37] <cnd> cool
[15:38] <cnd> we need to update that too in the other packages :)
[15:38] <bregma> yep
[15:39] <bregma> Debian sponsors like zero non-pedantic lintian warnings unless there is a really good reason for overrides, and jquery.js is not one of the good reasons
[15:40] <bregma> lintian -EviL +pedantic is a good mnemonic ("Debian sponsors are evil and pedantic")
[15:40] <cnd> heh
[15:43] <cnd> bregma, the geis configure.ac stuff for integration testing is broken
[15:43] <cnd> I'm going to copy over the stuff from grail
[15:56] <cnd> bregma, just submitted MP
[15:59]  * tvoss is back from tax-hell
[16:41] <cnd> gah, whoever maintains bzr-builder needs to be shot
[16:41] <cnd> not only do they not push updates to their ubuntu package
[16:41] <cnd> but now they say they have a ppa
[16:42] <cnd> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/BzrBuilder
[16:42] <cnd> but it's private!
[16:42] <cnd> why?
[16:42] <bregma> the started drinking too early in the day
[16:43] <cnd> tvoss, will our jenkins stuff move to the public qa.ubuntu.com site at any point?
[16:43] <tvoss> cnd, ack, the move is scheduled already
[16:43] <cnd> ok, cool
[16:44] <tvoss> cnd, cannot give you an eta yet but larry is working on it
[16:44] <cnd> ok
[16:45] <tvoss> cnd, but my hope is that he starts moving over the jobs once they have done their update
[16:45] <cnd> tvoss, update to jenkins?
[16:45] <tvoss> cnd, just forwarded you an email
[16:46] <cnd> k
[16:49] <cnd> bregma, I can't get dailydeb to work
[16:50] <cnd> any issues if I push the changes to the geis ubuntu packaging branch and kick of a daily ppa build
[16:50] <cnd> to see if it all works properly?
[16:51] <cnd> oh, too late
[16:51] <cnd> already pushed :)
[16:55] <bregma> what errors are you getting from dailydeb?
[16:57] <cnd> I got around the errors, but nothing was output
[16:57] <cnd> bregma, have we not fixed geis for daily builds?
[16:58] <bregma> it built yesterday
[16:58] <cnd> I thought we did, but m4/xorg-gtest.m4 doesn't exist upstream
[16:58] <cnd> yeah, but that was likely because it was built with --with-integration-tests=no
[16:59] <cnd> I guess we only fixed grail and frame
[16:59] <bregma> but if it was built --with autoreconf that shouldn;t matter
[16:59] <cnd> bregma, libxorg-gtest-dev isn't a build-dep
[16:59] <cnd> so it's missing xorg-gtest.m4
[17:00] <bregma> --with autoreconf should force configure to get regenerated, which requires the m4 macro, so I can;t explain why  the daily PPA succeeded yesterday (or my pbuilder builds, for that matter)
[17:01] <cnd> true...
[17:03] <bregma> I seem to be getting failures in my geis test sute due to incorrect window IDs coming from grail, I'm investigating
[17:04] <cnd> ok
[17:05] <cnd> bregma, new MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~chasedouglas/utouch-geis/fix-daily-builds/+merge/99980
[17:24] <olli_> did you guys see the uTouch question on unity-dev?
[17:25] <cnd> olli_, yeah, but I wasn't subscribed to unity-dev before then, so I couldn't respond :)
[17:25] <olli_> which ted tried to route to multi-touch-dev
[17:25] <olli_> cnd, ok
[17:25] <cnd> hopefully they send it over to multi-touch-dev
[17:25] <cnd> yeah
[17:30] <bregma> hmm, my test suite problem seems to be pointer trouble somewhere in geis
[17:40] <cnd> uhoh
[18:17] <cnd> bregma, I hope you like reviewing MPs, because I have another: https://code.launchpad.net/~chasedouglas/utouch-geis/fix-gtest-includes/+merge/99993
[18:17] <cnd> :)
[18:19] <cnd> My goal is to get the integration tests running on jenkins
[18:19] <cnd> and I think this is the last bug
[18:22] <bregma> I'm getting integration test fails due to some invalid state with X, so until I fix that I would expect failures
[18:22] <bregma> obviously something missing in geis
[18:23] <bregma> the most recent test leaves the connection in a weird state, or something, so subsequent tests all fail
[18:23] <bregma> randomizing test order can reveal much
[18:25] <cnd> interesting
[18:29] <bregma> ... heh, the bad X state is a red herring, I was missing a geis_subscription_delete() at the end of my test case
[18:29] <bregma> I dunno what the bad X state is, but it doesn't hurt anything
[18:33] <cnd> yay?
[18:34] <cnd> hrm... another jenkins failure...
[18:34] <cnd> make[4]: *** No rule to make target `/src/xorg-gtest-all.cpp', needed by `libgtest_geis_a-xorg-gtest-all.o'.  Stop.
[18:34] <cnd> but it found it in configure:
[18:34] <cnd> checking for /usr/src/gtest/src/gtest-all.cc... yes
[18:34] <cnd> so the prefix isn't being used properly...
[18:35] <cnd> oh wait, it can't find xorg-gtest-all.cpp, but configure found gtest-all.cc
[18:35] <cnd> which are different files
[18:43] <bregma> gotta run an errand, biab
[18:52] <dandrader> cnd,  do all utouch projects follow the same coding style?
[18:52] <cnd> dandrader, geis was created before we had a standard coding style
[18:52] <cnd> so it's different :(
[18:52] <cnd> basically, two spaces indents and curly braces on new lines
[18:53] <cnd> everything else is fairly similar
[18:53] <dandrader> ok
[18:56] <cnd> I guess two space indents is common for all our projects now
[18:56] <cnd> it wasn't in the beginning
[19:46] <cnd> bregma, I *think* I've got the jenkins builder working
[19:47] <bregma> I'm running a pbuilder right now
[19:48] <cnd> bregma, it was a problem with the jenkins build script
[19:48] <bregma> OK
[19:49] <cnd> bregma, this is what we need to fix now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/906168/
[19:51] <cnd> bregma, the recordings moved yesterday :)
[19:51] <cnd> if your test was working, you were probably using a stale branch
[19:51] <cnd> I'm just going to commit a fix with the path prefix addition of ../recordings
[19:51] <bregma> yep
[19:52] <bregma> if you pass the tests locally no need for a MR
[19:57] <cnd> ok, committed
[19:58] <cnd> I still get one geis1 test failure
[19:58] <cnd> I'm running builds in jenkins
[19:58] <cnd> we'll see if it confirms
[19:59] <cnd> bregma, do know how to reach jenkins?
[20:02] <cnd> bregma, hmm, it passed on i386
[20:03] <cnd> 83 passing tests :)
[20:03] <cnd> hmm... 1 failure on amd64
[20:04] <cnd> [ RUN      ] Geis1AttributeTests.tap_touch_count
[20:04] <cnd> gtest_attrs.cpp:123: Failure
[20:04] <cnd> Value of: saw_four_tap
[20:04] <cnd>   Actual: false
[20:04] <cnd> Expected: true
[20:04] <cnd> [  FAILED  ] Geis1AttributeTests.tap_touch_count (3084 ms)
[20:04] <cnd> could be a timing issue, I'll rerun to see if it is
[20:05] <cnd> hmm... the gtest tests aren't being accounted for in the jenkins results
[20:06] <cnd> probably an oversight in the jenkins script
[20:06] <cnd> I'll see if I can fix it
[20:35] <bregma> man, I keep getting launchpad timeouts
[20:35] <bregma> it's harshing my mellow
[20:36] <cnd> odd
[20:36] <cnd> bregma, we got that same tap_touch_count failure on amd64
[20:37] <bregma> only on amd64?
[20:38] <cnd> yeah
[20:38] <cnd> I'm wondering if it's a timing issue due to running geis1 then geis2 gtests in rapid succession
[20:38] <cnd> the geis1 dummy server hasn't fully shut down
[20:39] <cnd> oops, other way around
[20:39] <cnd> the geis 2 dummy server hasn't fully shut down
[20:39] <cnd> before the first geis 1 gtest test is executed
[20:39] <cnd> we really should be compiling all the tests together anyways
[20:41] <cnd> I'll attack that after lunch
[20:41] <cnd> since the archive freeze hasn't lifted yet
[20:41] <bregma> OK, I gotta run, too, be back later
[20:41] <cnd> oh wait, it has
[20:41] <cnd> :)
[21:57] <cnd> bregma, what do you do when you need to mix linker flags and archives in automake
[21:57] <cnd> and they have to be in the right order
[21:58] <cnd> if you put them in LDFLAGS, it rearranges all flags in front of libs, which is wrong
[21:58] <cnd> and if you put it in LDADD, it errors out
[22:01] <cnd> hmm.. starting to think it won't work
[22:24] <cnd> bregma, I'm trying to build and link the gtest tests in each geis* directory
[22:24] <cnd> and then link both static libs into one gtest executable
[22:24] <cnd> the problem is that this breaks gtest test registration
[22:27] <cnd> because the tests in the static libs have global constructors that aren't referenced by anything
[22:27] <cnd> so they aren't pulled in to the executable
[22:28] <cnd> the --whole-archive linker option would fix things, but it's non-portable and requires intermixing the flag with the libraries
[22:28] <cnd> I think I'm going to give up for today
[22:28] <cnd> and move on to other work
[22:37] <dandrader> are utouch-geis tests all passing on your machines?
[22:40] <cnd> dandrader, I get a failure in the second geis1 test
[22:41] <cnd> [ RUN      ] Geis1SubscriptionTests.basic
[22:41] <cnd> gtest_subscription.cpp:65: Failure
[22:41] <cnd> Value of: geis_subscribe(geis(), ((GeisInputDeviceId)0), gestures, &callbacks, this)
[22:41] <cnd>   Actual: -999
[22:41] <cnd> Expected: GEIS_STATUS_SUCCESS
[22:41] <cnd> Which is: 0
[22:41] <cnd> [  FAILED  ] Geis1SubscriptionTests.basic (2010 ms)
[22:41] <cnd> I don't know why
[22:41] <cnd> it works fine in jenkins
[22:41] <dandrader> cnd, same with me
[22:41] <cnd> hmm
[22:41] <dandrader> (the error)
[22:41] <cnd> ok
[22:41] <dandrader> but the funny thing is that with lp:~dandrader/utouch-geis/lp967605 I get a failure in some other test instead
[22:42] <cnd> which test?
[22:43] <dandrader> [ RUN      ] GeisSubscriptionTests.duplicate_window_subscription
[22:43] <dandrader> gtest_subscriptions.cpp:91: Failure
[22:43] <dandrader> Expected: (GEIS_STATUS_SUCCESS) != (geis_subscription_activate(sub2)), actual: 0 vs 0
[22:43] <dandrader> mistakenly activated subscription 2
[22:43] <dandrader> [  FAILED  ] GeisSubscriptionTests.duplicate_window_subscription (2128 ms)
[22:43] <cnd> dandrader, so I think I know what's wrong with the subscription test
[22:46] <cnd> the previous test is subscribing, but not unsubscribing is my guess
[22:46] <dandrader> hmm. well, I gotta go. see you tomorrow
[23:41] <bregma> ho! I have returned!
[23:42] <bregma> cnd, are you running the most recent, shiniest, up-to-date geis (with my fix for the device-removed test case that caused subsequent tests to fail)?
[23:42] <cnd> bregma, it's a combo of a bug in geis and a bug in the xserver
[23:43] <cnd> ungrabbing a touch grab is not synchronous, unlike grabbing a touch grab
[23:43] <cnd> you have to call XSync or XFlush afterwards so the request actually is sent to the server
[23:43] <cnd> so from one test to the next, the window grab wasn't actually getting ungrabbed
[23:43] <bregma> I have a visceral dislike of gotches
[23:43] <cnd> but on top of that, it turns out that we forgot to implement touch ungrab upstream :)
[23:43] <bregma> the fix I put in was ungrabs were never getting executed at all
[23:44] <cnd> what fix?
[23:44] <bregma> the last commit for #944822
[23:44] <bregma> my test cases started to fail, so I dug in to it
[23:45] <bregma> found I was returning a bad pointer from a call that caused the ungrab to never get executed
[23:45] <cnd> ahh
[23:45] <bregma> that, and I never called geis_subscription_delete() from the test case, which cause the XClose() to not becalled, which messed things up
[23:46] <cnd> so it was a perfect storm of bugs :)
[23:46] <bregma> yes, and randomizing the test run order was a good thing


[12:42] <doko> jbicha: txzmq failing it's autopkg tests after the forced sync
[14:30] <jbicha> doko: I'm thinking it just needs to depend on python3-pytest but I haven't sat down to test that…


[02:10] <wertyhj> i am read-only in ubuntu channel
[02:13] <IdleOne> That is how you will stay, you have had more than enough warning about being off topic and constant nonsense in #ubuntu.
[02:14] <wertyhj> I visit that channel once in a year
[02:15] <wertyhj> this is a support channel, so I would like to have support, and not power-trip racist moderators
[02:15] <IdleOne> How was I being racist?
[02:15] <chu> Not a particularly good way of pleading your case.
[02:16] <wertyhj> people with .com or .net hostnames can do whichever they want
[02:16] <IdleOne> not true
[02:17] <wertyhj> point just one time I used that channel without a support issue
[02:17] <IdleOne> anyway, thank you for proving with your usual trolling that you are Lint. You will not be unmuted.
[02:17] <IdleOne> if you don't like my decision you are welcome to appeal.
[02:17] <IdleOne> !appeal
[02:17] <wertyhj> of course I will
[02:21] <chu> I have a feeling "power-trip racist moderators" was a dig at bazhang for some reason. I just seem to recall bazhang mentioning that he can't have an actual conversation with Lint because he just degrades into calling bazhang racist or something.
[02:22] <IdleOne> he calls anyone who doesn't do what he expects that
[02:22] <chu> Ahh, I see. Fortunately I've not had the displeasure of having to deal with him.
[02:24] <IdleOne> I'm surprised he isn't banned
 whats offtopic?im a bewbie
[02:38]  * elky chortles at that typo
[06:05] <Tm_T> good morning
[10:12] <knome> g'day Tm_T
[12:09] <bkerensa> ZzZzz
[15:26] <k1l_> hi, just to inform you.   I thought you were saying that his realname was questionable.  Rather than questionable belonging to the second half of the mark
[16:08] <bazhang> yep sorry
[16:10] <bazhang> jrib is moving to Oregon?
[16:13] <jrib> :x
[16:14] <bazhang> s/oregon/colorado/
[16:47] <bazhang> * [Goauld] (~dude@46-126-175-104.dynamic.hispeed.ch): fnordistus
 darmok and jalad at tanagra
[16:47] <bazhang> mernilio?
[16:49] <AlanBell> Temba, his arms wide
[16:50] <Pici> !fail-#ubuntu-offtopic
[16:51] <IdleOne> that factoid is incorrect
[16:51] <IdleOne> "Shaka, when the walls fell." means that he understood
[16:51] <IdleOne> please to correct
[16:52] <AlanBell> Sokath, his eyes uncovered/opened
[16:54] <bazhang> why do people exclude UNITY from gnome3...
[16:54] <AlanBell> Kiteo, his eyes closed
[16:54] <bazhang> presumably they mean gnome-shell
[16:54] <AlanBell> I should stop now
[16:55] <Myrtti> oh man.
[16:59] <mneptok> AlanBell: Shaka, when the walls fell.
[17:00] <IdleOne> properly used ^
[17:00] <mneptok> IdleOne: "shaka" is failure. "Sokath" is understanding.
[17:00]  * IdleOne hugs the mneptok
[17:00] <IdleOne> is not
[17:00] <IdleOne> and gimme back my hug
[17:00] <AlanBell> is too
[17:00] <IdleOne> naught
[17:01] <mneptok> IdleOne: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tamarian_language
[17:01] <IdleOne> wiki's are never wrong
[17:01] <IdleOne> :)
[17:02] <AlanBell> The river Temarc in winter | IdleOne
[17:02] <IdleOne> that's right. I am rigid and set in my ways
[17:02] <mneptok> Kiteo, his eyes closed.
[17:02] <bazhang>  "Shaka, when the walls fell" - failure
[17:02] <bazhang> "Sokath, his eyes uncovered/opened" - understanding/realization
[17:03] <bazhang> "The river Temarc in winter"  = +q
[17:20] <Myrtti> you guise need to check your medication levels.
[17:25] <IdleOne> I doubled it last week
[17:30] <mneptok> it is very, very refreshing to give a presentation to an audioence that you don't really have to care about impressing.
[17:31] <mneptok> my neighbor convinced me to speak at his Kiwanis club, and i just did a talk on FLOSS concepts. some slides required lengthy explanation. so i slipped this into the middel of the deck, just to be sure ...
[17:31] <mneptok> http://mneptok.com/Screenshot.jpg
[17:34] <knome> mneptok, ideally, don't you have to care to impress any and every audience?
[17:36] <mneptok> knome: so when Mark asks you to do a keynote, i can ask you to wear bicycle racing pants and a halter top?
[17:36] <mneptok> viperhoot: 'sup
[17:36] <viperhoot> mneptok: o/
[17:37] <knome> mneptok, is that the only way you think i can impress the keynote audience?
[17:37] <knome> or, s/i/somebody/
[17:38] <mneptok> knome: no, i'm saying that if you do not care about impressing people ....
[17:38] <knome> mneptok, i was saying that you always should care
[17:39] <knome> oh, right. you said you didn't need to care
[17:39] <mneptok> knome: there's a rheostat there, though.
[17:39] <knome> well, i don't think i agree :)
[17:39] <Myrtti> viperhoot: whazzup?
[17:39] <knome> the deployment is wrong if you don't need/want to impress ;)
[17:40] <mneptok> knome: i suspect you would spend more time preparing to bried the National Security Council than you would Mr. Palmer's kindergarten. so there's a scale there.
[17:40] <mneptok> *breif
[17:40] <mneptok> bleh.
[17:40] <knome> mneptok, well sure. nonetheless, if you have no motivation/need to impress, why do a presentation?
[17:40] <mneptok> viperhoot: do you need something from the ops team?
[17:41] <viperhoot> Myrtti: nothing really, just I have a question, a friend of ubuntu-qa has op privileges, he puts a welcome message on his channel, but this message disappears when he closed sessión
[17:42] <mneptok> knome: "Hi, neighbor. Will you help me out and come speak to my Kiwanis group? I have to schedule speakers for November."
[17:42] <viperhoot> is there a way to get the message to stay permanently?
[17:42] <tsimpson> viperhoot: how did they set the message?
[17:42] <knome> mneptok, either pick a topic that you want to impress the audience with or don't do a presentation.
[17:42] <mneptok> viperhoot: if the channel is registered, a topic lock can be set with services. but this is better asked in #freenode.
[17:43] <knome> mneptok, if somebody is doing presentations just because they used to, but nobody has anything that they really want to talk about anymore, something's wrong with the setting.
[17:43] <viperhoot> kaziweb: how you set the message on #ubuntu-qa ?
[17:44] <viperhoot> mneptok: thank you, i will ask in #freenode ;)
[17:45] <kaziweb> viperhoot, I know that. But I need to fix it permanently. I hv set it for two times but it get removed automatically.
[18:01] <mneptok> knome: i think you're WAY overthinking this.
[18:02] <knome> mneptok, not really:)
[18:02] <knome> mneptok, it's a no-brainer
[18:08] <mneptok> knome: there are audiences where i care less about formality and impressions than others. WFM.
[18:08] <knome> :)
[18:09] <mneptok> knome: a local Kiwanis breakfast meeting does not get the same output as POTUS.
[18:09] <knome> heh
[18:09] <mneptok> knome: this is called "crafting your message and approach for the audience."
[18:10] <mneptok> today was "i can add a snarky slide" day.
[18:11] <knome> snarky slides are fine
[18:16] <bazhang> he has gnome classic and is saying that Unity is too big?
[18:16] <bazhang> uh what?
[20:20] <bazhang> why do people think #ubuntu is #helpforeverythingincludingthekitchensink
[20:21] <bioterror> I love clearing the drains of kitchen sink
[20:22] <bazhang> coll2 is using RH 5.6 yet asks in #ubuntu
[20:22] <bazhang> hah
[20:23] <bioterror> I used RH 5.2 back in the 1998
[20:23] <bioterror> so I think he talks about RHEL?
[20:24] <bazhang> he asked in #freenode , I told him #rhel and he said "they're all the same"
[20:24] <bazhang> yep rhel 5.6
[20:25] <Pici> I remember 5.2
[20:25] <Pici> It was the first linux I used
[20:25] <bioterror> Pici, same here
[20:25] <bazhang> scary
[20:25] <bioterror> I dont want to remember it
[20:25] <bioterror> it was horrible
[20:25] <bazhang> hehe
[20:25] <Pici> the only thing I remember is being horribly confused by `find`
[20:25] <bioterror> if you wanted to install something "new", you had to find all the dependencies yourself
[20:26] <AlanBell> dependency chasing for hours and hours
[20:26] <Pici> yep, no real package management
[21:28] <bazhang> @mark #ubuntu [MelRay] (~quassel@c-76-30-29-239.hsd1.tx.comcast.net): Mel Herndon     offtopic, asking for MINT support, rude part
[23:25] <physically_fit> is everything ok?
[23:34] <physically_fit> why no one talks to me? am i devoiced in #ubuntu or something?
[23:37] <physically_fit> :'(
[23:39] <IdleOne> #ubuntu is for actual support questions
[23:39] <IdleOne> not opinion polling
[23:39] <IdleOne> if there is nothing else, please part this channel.
[23:40] <physically_fit> i want to hang out with my ubuntu friends to talk about other subjects
[23:40] <physically_fit> i don't know where else to go
[23:40] <IdleOne> you can try #defocus, freenode's social channel.
[23:40] <physically_fit> they talk dirty there
[23:41] <physically_fit> i want something a bit moderated and nerdy
[23:41] <IdleOne> try /msg alis help
[23:41] <IdleOne> #freenode can help you further if you need help with alis
[23:42] <physically_fit> thanks, i'll try that. bye-bye.
[23:42] <physically_fit> say bye to me
[23:43] <IdleOne> bye
[23:43] <IdleOne> want a hug also?
[23:43] <physically_fit> yeah
[23:43] <IdleOne> Please part the channel now.
[23:44] <physically_fit> jesus ok ok ok. bye bye  u_u


[05:12] <achiang> anyone around and familiar with valgrind?
[05:49] <DNS> heya :) i have a question about the ubuntu linux kernel source... is in general all in ubuntu/ and include/uapi on a free license or is there something unfree in it?
[05:58] <DNS> looks for like all is on free license but i want to be sure
[05:58] <DNS> *looks for me
[09:46] <dontknow> i cant enter http://kernel.ubuntu.com  could you verify
[09:48] <mitya57> dontknow, I can confirm that it doesn't work
[09:48] <mitya57> dontknow, maybe you can get the info you need from some other service?
[09:48] <dontknow> mitya57: thanks. where can i download ubuntu kernel patches
[09:54] <mitya57> dontknow, it seems that that there are no mirrors of their git... You may ask tomorrow when there will be some kernel team members here...
[09:55] <mitya57> dontknow, or you can download the .tar.gz from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
[09:59] <dontknow> mitya57: thanks a lot
[13:08] <benJIman_> Hi. Is there an API/machine readable listing of all PPAs on http://ppa.launchpad.net/ ?
[13:59] <jtaylor> benJIman_: launchpadlib probably has something
[14:00] <benJIman_> Ta
[14:00] <jtaylor> benJIman: https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html


[16:52] <bschaefer> hello, having an issue where pushing to a launchpad branch just seems to hang indefinitely?
[16:53] <bschaefer> the branch in question: https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/miral/trunk
[16:53] <bschaefer> after it fails, ive to break the lock (not sure what was the starting issue)


 simon: Dan's your contact for the gittea teams/repos/etc. config
 i'm still working on Drone
 and still working on other stuff
 but work has me running ragged this week so
 "[telegram] <teward001> simon..." <- Yup, I will get to it soon Simon Quigley (Developer)
 Yeah that's a good idea.. I've used the *landing of a new LXQt* before, but mainly Ubuntu Testing Week etc to try and drum up QA-testing, via posts on discourse/forum. I've usually concentrated on testing itself, providing the link to the LXQt upstream 'what's new/release' post only though (eg. https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/lubuntu-jammy-jellyfish-22-04-beta-testing-week/3163).    If I start on release notes, I'd use notes.lubuntu.me
[02:12] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Hi, I'm around, just that one PR?
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> No, two.
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> One for the synced with Debian libqtxdg, one for...
[02:12] <tsimonq2> Links?
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> pavucontrol-qt.
[02:12] <arraybolt3[m]> One moment...
[02:13] <arraybolt3[m]> https://github.com/lubuntu-team/libqtxdg-packaging/pull/1 https://github.com/lubuntu-team/pavucontrol-qt-packaging/pull/1 Simon Quigley (Developer)
[02:13] <tsimonq2> And can I get a link to that wallpaper + that license we can use it under one more time?
[02:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, easy.
[02:13]  * arraybolt3[m] stumbles around looking for Google Drive
[02:14] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, hold on, waiting for Slowggle to load
[02:15] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: For the first one, I'd say merge into Kinetic to start and *then* merge into Backports.
[02:15] <tsimonq2> Otherwise seemingly LGTM
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, picture: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KEVNBnKCPtxMpjyKQENPGwHCnGbIwla-/view?usp=sharing
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> License https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
[02:16] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: That was because of a goof on my end, I can fix that with another force push.
[02:18] <arraybolt3[m]> (I thought the way I did it worked, but was a bit wasteful, I'll fix it.)
[02:18] <tsimonq2> Second one is uploading now
[02:19] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Thanks.
[02:26] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Two more sbuilds for just in case, then this thing should be ready to merge.
[02:32] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): libqtxdg should be ready now. Diff is clean, build is Lintian clean. Thanks for bearing with me while I'm figuring this out.
[02:41] <tsimonq2> That's where I'm at right now
[02:41]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (1026KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/gXQlUfzeJTeRekaFdaxyiDLy/image.png >
[02:42] <tsimonq2> Any more suggestions on UI?
 "Simon Quigley (Developer..." <- Cool. No problem.
[02:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Pretty good. I'd shrink the "Would you like to try or install Lubuntu" words a bit and shift them down so they dodge everything on the screen, and maybe also move the buttons away from the center so they don't cover the ring (if they can dodge the swirls on either side that would be even cooler).
[02:43] <arraybolt3[m]> My idea is to make the UI elements dodge around the background. Also, maybe remove the Lubuntu logo at the top since it's already in the middle of the screen.
[02:44] <arraybolt3[m]> I also had some other ideas, let me see if I can get Google Slides to do something that doesn't look like an April Fools day joke.
[02:44] <arraybolt3[m]> (Like my last mockup did.)
[02:45] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Logo gone, you think the buttons should go up more or just slightly out on either side?
[02:45] <arraybolt3[m]> I was originally thinking out to the side, but now I'm thinking down, and add some logos above them that convey the ideas of "Try" and "Install", I'll show you in one sec...
[02:47] <arraybolt3[m]> Hmm, my idea might not be so good, lemme see...
[02:49]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (1071KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/wSsCoEHbMHABNIWgSQEUyGux/image.png >
[02:49] <tsimonq2> Does that look better?
[02:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, I like it! That's really nice.
[02:50] <tsimonq2> Yeah, I think we're finally getting somewhere
[02:50] <tsimonq2> Would you call that shippable as a 0.1.0 release?
[02:50] <tsimonq2> I mean, the buttons don't work yet ;)
[02:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Pretty close, there's one change I'm thinking of.
[02:50] <tsimonq2> BUT WHEN THEY DO
[02:50] <tsimonq2> :)(
[02:50] <tsimonq2>  * :)
[02:50] <tsimonq2> Oh?
[02:51] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm thinking of adding icons below the buttons that convey the ideas of "Try" and "Install" like Ubiquity does.
[02:52] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm gonna see if I can do it in Gimp and make something.
[02:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Mind if I use random free clipart from off the Internet just for the mockup?
[03:07] <tsimonq2> Go for it
[03:11]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1086KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/lfGJgTWaIxkPOtxQjNpnOVJG/reallybadmockup.png >
[03:12] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, this is a VERY ROUGH draft, and I didn't check licensing before using the clipart here, so this isn't usable as-is, but you get the idea.
[03:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Pinging with above really bad mockup.
[03:12] <arraybolt3[m]> (I dunno, looking at this, I think it was better the way you had it.)
[03:15] <tsimonq2> Dan Simmons: What happened to our Calamares theming?
[03:15] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I love it
[03:15] <tsimonq2> I'd say just iterate on that png file, I can merge in changes
[03:16] <arraybolt3[m]> One of the pieces of clipart I used isn't free for commercial use, so this is strictly for concepts, we can't actually use it.
[03:16] <arraybolt3[m]> But we get the idea, I can make clipart we can use, it would just take me a bit.
[03:18] <arraybolt3[m]> Si
[03:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Another idea might be to round the corners of the buttons and increase the amount of bevel.
[03:19] <arraybolt3[m]>  * (enter instead of tab strikes again!)
[03:19] <tsimonq2> Install Qt Creator, I take PRs :)
[03:19] <tsimonq2> Not sure how to do that part.
[03:19] <arraybolt3[m]> Me neither, I thought you would :)
 "Dan Simmons: What happened to..." <- Yes
[03:24] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh no.
[03:25] <kc2bez[m]> It was what prompted my question the other day in the Calamares channel.
[03:27] <kc2bez[m]> I only had a brief moment to look after  but I don't still don't understand what happened.
[03:49] <tsimonq2> I do...
[03:50] <tsimonq2> Nope. No I don't
[03:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, I'm going ahead and installing Qt Creator. Hopefully that will at least let me design UI even if I can't code C++.
[03:58] <tsimonq2> You'll catch on really quickly, as it's still a small project
[03:58] <tsimonq2> Anyway
[03:58] <tsimonq2> I'm going to go put in a few hours for $sidejob
[03:59] <tsimonq2> `tools/boot/kinetic/common.sh` in `debian-cd`...
[03:59] <tsimonq2> (personal note)
[03:59] <tsimonq2> tl;dr we're going to need to have LOTS of fun to get this to autolaunch only on a live session
[03:59] <tsimonq2> I'm looking forward to it :P
[04:02] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Package it, throw it in Universe, make it always autolaunch, and then just add it to the packages to be removed on the installed system.
[04:03] <arraybolt3[m]> A systemd unit should be able to launch it for us.
[04:31] <tsimonq2> I mean... maybe?
[04:42] <tsimonq2> Something good to understand if you're looking at this from a different point of view would be the stack that gets LXQt launched on the live ISO
[04:43] <tsimonq2> I suspect we're going to have to patch LXQt a bit for this. Currently when you disable e.g. starting Desktop and Panel by default, there's no option to re-enable them later or similar
[04:44] <tsimonq2> It may even just involve a complete replacement to Lubuntu.desktop in xsessions to launch our special session which in turn launches the prompt screen
[04:44] <tsimonq2> We could also do this via bare openbox but likewise, it's hacky
[04:45] <tsimonq2> I'm just spitballing but I'd expect this to take a few months
[04:45] <tsimonq2> I could see quite a few race conditions that would occur by simply using a systemd unit. I'd favor that for installed user applications
[04:46] <tsimonq2> For the installer stack though we can patch it a little bit. Write some custom stuff to make it work the way we want it to...
[04:46] <tsimonq2> Anyway, I'm going away from my computer for the rest of the night. Patches and pings will be responded to async
[04:48] <tsimonq2> We may need a systemd unit that runs between the system init and sddm to copy over an openbox autostart.sh which will accomplish what we want to with minimal hassle
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]> How are we launching LXQt now? What if we just made our app launch after X is launched, and then have our app launch LXQt if the Try button is clicked?
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]> (And if Install is clicked, we don't even bother loading LXQt and just go straight for Calamares.)
[04:49] <tsimonq2> (Any time I touch this stack I feel like I'm just hacking around with a saw :P)
[04:49] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: That's the basic concept
[04:50] <tsimonq2> Use Openbox for the minimal "hey just install this thing" screen and run startlxqt if the user wants to try it first
[04:50] <arraybolt3[m]> OK.
[04:51] <tsimonq2> Openbox to provide X. Very lightweight. (Let's just freaking port to Wayland already, come on now.)
[04:51] <arraybolt3[m]> 'Cause Openbox is still there, right?
[04:51]  * arraybolt3[m] tries to launch openbox
[04:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Yeah
[04:51] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Black screen, you will need to right click
[04:51] <tsimonq2> And a bunch of legacy shortcuts
[04:51] <tsimonq2> So you can't log out
[04:51] <tsimonq2> Log in
[04:51] <tsimonq2> Or launch a terminal
[04:51] <tsimonq2> It's garbage it needs fixing :P
[04:51] <arraybolt3[m]> It didn't do it, it didn't want LXQt running at the same time 🅰
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> (???)
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> :-P != 🅰
[04:52] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Log out and log back in with the Openbox session and you'll see real quick
[04:52] <arraybolt3[m]> If we know it's there, there's no need to.
[04:53] <arraybolt3[m]> (I mean, I don't need to try and launch it if we know it's there.)
[04:53] <tsimonq2> LXQt, at least as shipped in Lubuntu, ships openbox. We are taking candidates for a very light replacement that supports Wayland and LXQt. :P
[04:53] <tsimonq2> (And that looks basically the same.)
[04:53] <tsimonq2> I mean, you can use LXQt with KWin...
[04:53] <tsimonq2> I really don't like the look of it as a default
[04:53] <tsimonq2> Makes it look like KDE
[04:53] <arraybolt3[m]> It's KWin, GNOME, or bust last I checked.
[04:54] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: There's others. They're just hiding. :P
[04:54] <tsimonq2> ™
[04:55] <arraybolt3[m]> Why do we want Wayland in the first place? To me, replacing X with Wayland is similar to forcing Snap down everyone's throats. I'm happy with X, thank you.
[04:56] <arraybolt3[m]> s/, thank you//
[05:10] <tsimonq2> Wayland is coolnewshiny
[05:11] <tsimonq2> And apparently more secure according to the brochure I took 30 seconds to read :P
[05:11] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): How do I build that installer-prompt? "cmake ./CMakeLists.txt" isn't doing it.
[05:11] <tsimonq2> Jk
[05:11]  * arraybolt3[m] expects to hear, "Oh brother, you really have no idea what you're doing, do you?"
[05:12] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: And sadslowbuggy last I tried to use it, plus from reading many people's experience of it.
[05:12] <arraybolt3[m]> s/many/some/
[05:13] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: This will do the trick:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/11873fe0f229f8e86a676070e64a21ba5d5b0e1b)
[05:13] <tsimonq2> * This will do the trick:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c15f471290f32acd0991fc6d8290a71d0bbf5b70)
[05:13] <tsimonq2> * This will do the trick:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/7c54c992a1de71299fdb2be5f3b5ca77646b9776)
[05:14] <tsimonq2> -jFIXME = -j8 for me since I have 8 processor cores
[05:14] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope. Throws a fit over Qt6, maybe I'm missing build deps.
[05:14] <tsimonq2> Or just build it in Qt Creator :)
[05:14] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Probably
[05:14] <arraybolt3[m]> There's no project file, so I dunno how to do that. (re: build it in Qt Creator)
[05:15]  * arraybolt3[m] is used to Visual Studio-like stuff
[05:15] <tsimonq2> Shouldn't need one. Just select the CMake file or similar
[05:15] <tsimonq2> It will probably make you a CMakeLists.txt.user
[05:16] <tsimonq2> I'll be back at my computer around 3 and can send screenshots
[05:16] <tsimonq2> Just know that it works for me :)
[05:23] <arraybolt3[m]> Ooooh, building in Qt Creator worked! Gives me a black screen with the buttons, though.
[05:23] <arraybolt3[m]> (My Internet cut out, sorry for the slow response.)
[05:36] <arraybolt3[m]> (Figured out the problem, now it's working just fine.)
[05:45] <tsimonq2> Cool!
[06:00] <tsimonq2> Well, it just died down so I'm calling it a night with $sidejob already
[06:00] <tsimonq2> How's it going arraybolt3 @arraybolt3:matrix.org?
[06:00] <arraybolt3[m]> No clue how to round buttons or increase bevel.
[06:00] <arraybolt3[m]> I know it's possible somehow because I had the button look I was thinking of universally in Kubuntu 14.04 (KXStudio).
[06:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Remind me how to apply a debdiff to the packaging.
[06:01] <arraybolt3[m]> (I could dig it up with the search, but you're right here.)
[06:01] <arraybolt3[m]> (Doing a sync from archive,)
[06:02] <tsimonq2> patch -p1 < PATH
[06:02] <arraybolt3[m]> Thanks.
[06:04] <tsimonq2> https://groups.google.com/g/python_inside_maya/c/_gOUTGcCWl0
[06:04] <tsimonq2> Of course
[06:05] <tsimonq2> https://forum.qt.io/topic/41771/solved-setstylesheet-to-qpushbutton-rounded-corners/2
[06:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Hey, nice! I was fiddling with the stylesheets (total newb to Qt), I got some cool gradients.
[06:05] <tsimonq2> https://falsinsoft.blogspot.com/2015/11/qt-snippet-rounded-corners-qpushbutton.html
[06:06] <arraybolt3[m]> I got frustrated and went back to backporting.
[06:06] <tsimonq2> I think that last link is the jackpot
[06:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Yeah, looks like.
[06:06] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: All good :)
[06:06] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll definitely be looking at it some more tonight (I think).
[06:28] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3:
[06:28]  * tsimonq2 uploaded an image: (1071KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/linuxdelta.com/azFKeQOwiOJZxZEVgRZKxkYO/image.png >
[06:28] <tsimonq2> The last thing we really need are some icons I think
[06:28] <tsimonq2> imo that looks perfect
[06:30] <tsimonq2> I think that should be good for a 1.1.0 tbh
[06:30] <tsimonq2> gimme a sec I'll test it and then perhaps you can package it ;)
[06:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, that looks really nice. Better than what I had come up with.
[06:37] <arraybolt3[m]> I'll come up with some clip art and send it to you momentarily.
[06:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, I made an Install logo, I think you'll like it.
[06:46]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (11KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jGJbbMrZeFQBCCgREovQyimv/Install.png >
[06:48] <arraybolt3[m]> * made an "Install, * Install" logo,
[06:57] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): And here's my try at a "Try" logo.
[06:57]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (58KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/unMyflzlmFckbzjuULQRDQtE/Try.png >
[06:58] <tsimonq2> Okay, so how would those look on the buttons?
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> (I guess they're not logos, but you get what I'm saying.)
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Not on the buttons, but underneath them, in the empty space below.
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> With the arrows pointing toward them.
[06:58] <arraybolt3[m]> (Or something like that, sorta like how Ubiquity has the stuff above the Try and Install buttons.)
[06:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Here, this should be easy to mock up in Gimp now that it's made.
[07:02]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1235KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/BoOOFIsADqQDyKaUOPxsPMaK/DevelopIter.png >
[07:02] <arraybolt3[m]> (I don't know if that even needs arrows.)
[07:02] <tsimonq2> I'm thinking like icons above the text
[07:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Like, much smaller and above rather than large and below?
[07:03] <arraybolt3[m]> That would look nice too, but I think the buttons should be shifted out and down a bit more if we want to do that (the buttons might look nicer shifted out a bit anyway, just my opinion).
[07:07]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1194KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TgOGDIvwqBschvYfrZFOMkMC/DevelopIter.png >
[07:07] <arraybolt3[m]> (Sans the painfully obvious fuzzy select - move - patch stunt I did to move stuff around in GIMP.)
[07:08] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great, I put the icons the wrong way around.
[07:09] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, there we go, right way around.
[07:09]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1194KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vXVrOPWDkfjjpQwkZRzksdjM/DevelopIter.png >
[07:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Meh, the try icon needs to be a touch bigger IMO, but is that sorta what you were thinking?
[07:10] <tsimonq2> There we are. Just make sure Erich is cool with the left logo, he'll be able to tell you why :)
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Do I need to change it?
[07:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Er, would it be better if I changed it?
[07:26] <arraybolt3[m]> (Wow, you sure were right about Matrix being awesome. It's like someone took IRC and added collaboration and sharing features.)
 "Er, would it be better if I..." <- Make it look less like the Ubuntu Studio logo :)
[07:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, you're right. I can see the logo right in the upper-left corner of my desktop screen since I'm using Ubuntu Studio as my host. I see what you're saying.
[07:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): OK, that took me longer than it should have, but how's this?
[07:43]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (1165KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/fSazFuBByJbaHXIuEgsOuSAm/DevelopIter.png >
[07:44]  * arraybolt3[m] uploaded an image: (2KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TsYapDFDmYuqRBQebEuvkYwo/Try2.png >
[07:44] <arraybolt3[m]> New "Try" icon.
[08:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Also, I'm happy to try and package this thing once it's done.
[08:34] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Hi sorry, you go to bed yet?
[08:34] <tsimonq2> I think that looks great.
[08:34] <arraybolt3[m]> Still here.
[08:34] <tsimonq2> I have it all working now, functionally speaking.
[08:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Nice. Ready for packaging?
[08:38] <arraybolt3[m]> (Right now I'm going back over my earlier backporting work to make sure that the Copyright files are all correct, since I realized I didn't quite do a totally thorough check, then I'm going to finish backporting qtermwidget and then we'll be done with Stage III.
[08:39] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Not quite yet, that's probably a tomorrow thing.
[08:39] <arraybolt3[m]> * Stage III.)
[16:08] <Eickmeyer> It never ceases to amaze me how far out-of-touch xnox is with the flavors: "also tsimonq2 upload is nowhere to be seen in git" (wrt ubiquity) *facepalm*
[16:09] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: https://github.com/lubuntu-team/installer-prompt Is this what you were looking for?
[16:09] <Eickmeyer> arraybolt3[m]: No, this was in #ubuntu-meeting in the foundations team meeting.
[16:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh. Yet another channel I'm not joined in. (will stick to reading not talking there)
 sorry for the delay, but I'm still working on it
 https://github.com/Roberalz/lubuntu-global-applications
 "It never ceases to amaze me..." <- First off, hey bro, this channel is logged and someone could send this over to him ;) also I don't have commit access there so I linked him to the PR
[17:05] <tsimonq2> I don't talk shit in public channels unless I'm very angry and justified or it's teward :P
[17:05] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Fair.
[17:06]  * tsimonq2 throws 10 million cats at teward all at once followed by the litterboxes
[17:09] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer @eickmeyer:matrix.org: BTW, in -desktop you're technically sound. You've been around for a bit too, remember the TB discussion on channels with default snaps?
[17:09] <tsimonq2> Literally what you're suggesting happen :)
[17:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, exactly. They consider everything in the snap store fair game as long as it's not "classic" containment, so the stuff that needs to happen to make that happen is a fair request.
[17:13] <tsimonq2> I'd do two things right now if I were you...
[17:13] <tsimonq2> Or one of two
[17:13] <tsimonq2> A) submit an email to the TB suggesting a streamlined process
[17:13] <tsimonq2> B) submit your request to devel-permissions, even if solved, as sort of a template... so the DMB knows what's up
[17:14] <tsimonq2> If diddledani is asking, while they're still going through the Canonical hiring process, they may not be intimately familiar with that
[17:14] <tsimonq2> I dunno, just my opinions :)
[17:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> There is a streamlined process, so long as the required snap deps also have the required track, which just requires a little coordination. It's a matter of adding "* snap:${snapname}" to the seed, plain and simple, and if a dependency is discovered (such as I found), the same for its dependency.
[17:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, I'm in the coordination phase.
[17:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> Basically, no other flavor has tried this before.
[17:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> And I'm a little more adventurous than some. :)
 I mean how will switching to wayland mean for say using obs-studio for window capture?
[17:22] <arraybolt3[m]> > * <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> throws 10 million cats at teward all at once followed by the litterboxes
[17:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Wow. The visual that just gave me...
 "[telegram] <lynorian> I mean how..." <- You need pipewire installed for sure, beyond that I think obs handles it, but I'm no expert.
[17:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: It's a whole new meaning to poo-flinging.
 "You need pipewire installed..." <- I think you are spot on, OBS uses Pipewire for the video capturing in Wayland.
[17:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> kc2bez[m]: As does any video capture, such as when you're doing video conferencing in the browser with Google Meet, Zoom, or whatever.
[17:35] <arraybolt3[m]> Seriously, though. X works. X has worked for years. If there's anything AES should have taught us, it's that stuff that's ancient, actively maintained, and works, is better than stuff that's brand-new, actively maintained, and almost works. KDE also is a good example of this.
[17:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3[m]: Although, KDE has stopped active development or bug fixing on X and any new features are done on Wayland and backported to X only if possible.
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> No.
[17:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> I got that from the horse's mouth.
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> What?
[17:37]  * arraybolt3[m] is somewhat horrified
[17:37] <kc2bez[m]> Everyone is migrating
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Last I saw, KDE Wayland was still experimental.
[17:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> It is, and it's a long migration process.
[17:37] <kc2bez[m]> For sure
[17:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Even bug fixes aren't backported to X now?
[17:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> They are, but only if possible.
[17:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh, I thought only feature requests or something like that.
[17:38] <kc2bez[m]> Only critical fixes now
[17:38] <Eickmeyer[m]> You're talking the difference between a server and a protocol/compositor.
[17:39] <Eickmeyer[m]> Not everything is a 1:1 fix.
[17:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't even get the point behind Wayland. They say it's more secure, so far what I've seen is it causes problems with its security features, and IMO, if you do something to your system that needs Wayland's security, you've already messed up your system to the point where you need to wipe clean and start over.
[17:40] <arraybolt3[m]> (By the time something that tries to spy on your screen gets on your system, from an InfoSec standpoint, you're already sunk, whether the thing can record your screen or not. Who knows what else it's able to do?)
[17:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (It being something that spies on your screen.)
[17:41] <kc2bez[m]> There is more to it than that. The screen reading is only one aspect of security.
[17:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I guess I've not looked into it super closely, so I see what you're saying, but... sigh. I wonder how they're going to replace SSH X Forwarding. That's a feature I'm using heavily right now.
[17:45] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, for a dedicated server, X is going nowhere. xwayland is still a capable client and can receive forwarded X.
[17:51] <arraybolt3[m]> Eickmeyer: So even once my desktop eventually switches to Wayland, I'll still be able to "ssh -X -C" into it and have it work?
[17:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> arraybolt3: I haven't tried it, but that's what I've been told.
 Sorry, I don't think I explained the process well, my fault for that. We will need to find out which package each of those .desktop files belong to and submit pull requests for each package or find where the upstream translations come from and translate there. I know where upg-apply.desktop is https://github.com/lubuntu-team/lubuntu-update-notifier (re @Roberalz: https://github.com/Roberalz/lubuntu-global-applications)
 Hans did some initial work towards other languages and I now notice there is a PR sitting there to add Japanese.
 Nothing happens, the work in principle is done at least in part, it would only be necessary to make some additional contributions, unless the work has to be done in another way that is not a .desktop and I have to start over (re @kc2bez: Hans did some initial work towards other languages and I now notice there is a PR sitting there to add Japanese.)
 Am I wrong or does lxqt directly read the .desktop files from the directory instead of using the .mo or .po files?
[20:07] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: https://github.com/lubuntu-team/installer-prompt/releases/tag/0.1.0
[20:07] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3: Give it your best shot, let me know if you need help. :)
[20:22] <tsimonq2> s/1.0/20/
[20:22] <tsimonq2> s/1/2/
[20:49]  * tsimonq2 goes afk for a few hours
 @tsimonq2 What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail? , the menus, or complete programs? What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail, the menus, or complete programs? What would they be?.
 Yes. :) (re @Roberalz: @tsimonq2 What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail? , the menus, or complete programs? What kind of translations were you referring to in the mail, the menus, or complete programs? What would they be?.)
 Yes to what?  xD (re @tsimonq2: Yes. :))
 *
 XD
 No more info :p ? (re @tsimonq2: XD)
 Ohhh, I understand now
 Okay so two things...
[21:53] <tsimonq2> A) At what point in the release can we no longer upload translations?
[21:54] <tsimonq2> B) Could the Global Team evaluate the translations updates and provide a section for the release notes outlining e.g. additional support and coverage?
 What type, can you give an example?
[21:57] <tsimonq2> Please excuse my talk to texans I'm driving but if you look at the upstream repositories the individual ones there should be websites commits in each one of the commit histories so and histories so for example feather pad well probably not feather paths probably not a good example maybe PC man of them cute possibly has Lee has translations that are showing up as website commits and just take a look at those and see what's updated from
[21:57] <tsimonq2> there
[21:57] <tsimonq2> If that translates to garbage to you just let me know and I can type it out more concisely in a little bit
[22:00] <tsimonq2> I guess one of the things I'm asking as well is, how comfortable are you working with translation files directly and reading git diffs?
 I'd have to look at that carefully, but I think it would be possible.  We should start with one in particular and see how it is done. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> I guess one of the things I'm asking as well is, how comfortable are you working with translation files directly and reading git diffs?)
 "Please excuse my talk to..." <- Not quite garbage, but PCManFM-Qt turned into "PC man of them cute".
 "arraybolt3: Give it your best..." <- Thank you, wish me luck!
[22:26] <kc2bez[m]> arraybolt3[m]: I liked his talk to Texans.
 "Please excuse my talk to..." <- Translation: Please exuse my talk to text, I'm driving. But if you look at the upstream repositories, the individual ones, there should be Weblate commits in each one of the commit histories, for example FeatherPad. Well, probably not FeatherPad, that's probably not a good example, maybe PCManFM-Qt. Lee has translations that are showing up as weblate commits, and just take a look at
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> those and see what's updated from there.
[22:28] <arraybolt3[m]> s/exuse/excuse/
 I think I understand you, but we can specify it a little more. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> Please excuse my talk to texans I'm driving but if you look at the upstream repositories the individual ones there should be websites commits in each one of the commit histories so and histories so for example feather pad well probably not feather paths probably not a good example maybe PC man of them cute possibly has Lee has translatio
 The global team does not have much power to evaluate, the team only has one member.  :p (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <tsimonq2> B) Could the Global Team evaluate the translations updates and provide a section for the release notes outlining e.g. additional support and coverage?)
[23:10] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): SInce I'm packaging brand-new software, just a question - I am supposed to be writing all the packaging files by hand, right? Or is there some magic tool that generates them for me to begin with?
[23:10] <tsimonq2> When I get home in a bit, I can write some tooling to make this very easy for you. Might flex some C++ skills. :P
[23:10] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: I think there's a magic tool but on the first go use an existing, similar package as a reference, closely consult Debian Policy, and write it all from scratch
[23:11] <arraybolt3[m]> That's what I'm doing. Fantastic, this looks easy enough, at least to begin with.
[23:11] <tsimonq2> For your first package I do plan on giving it an extremely thorough review (which means grilling for you :P) so I would be very very sure it's completely Lintian clean and kosher before passing it over.
[23:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Makes very good sense to me. I'd expect this to be a rough first run. Hit me with all the criticism you've got, this is probably the most vital part of learning to package.
[23:13] <tsimonq2> Yeah, this one is probably going to be more frustrating than symbols, fair warning :)
[23:13] <tsimonq2> (This package doesn't need a symbols file, it's not a library)
[23:13] <arraybolt3[m]> Makes sense to me.
[23:28] <tsimonq2> First question to guide you: what's a source package vs a binary package?
[23:28] <tsimonq2> Also, can a binary exist without a source? In what cases may this occur?
[23:29] <arraybolt3[m]> Hold on, fighting with GPL v3 in the copyright file (I don't think Debian systems have it installed by default if I'm understanding the Debian Wiki, so I'm copypasting THE WHOLE THING and formatting it to work in the file).
[23:30] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Don't do that bro, you're not understanding the Debian Wiki correctly ;)
[23:30] <arraybolt3[m]> Yay and crud.
[23:30] <tsimonq2> https://github.com/lubuntu-team/liblxqt-packaging/blob/8e9612ab899df21ea2fb318d1e107a0568c3dafd/debian/copyright#L19
[23:30] <tsimonq2> Good example of this.
[23:30] <arraybolt3[m]> (It looked like the wiki said only 2.0 was installed, argh!)
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Yes, but that's LGPL 2.1, not GPL 3. Where is GPL 3 installed on a Debian system?
[23:31] <tsimonq2> I don't think that's the case :)
[23:31] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Check that dir
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Confusing wiki page: https://wiki.debian.org/GPL
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (Oh yeah, because Ubuntu and Debian should be similar enough to be compatible...)
[23:31] <arraybolt3[m]> (In this regard.)
[23:31] <tsimonq2> You can probably also check around for a copyright file that includes GPL 3 to get that short text
[23:32] <arraybolt3[m]> There it is. Yay!
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> > <@tsimonq2:linuxdelta.com> First question to guide you: what's a source package vs a binary package?
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> >
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> > Also, can a binary exist without a source? In what cases may this occur?
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> Source package is the package that contains all the packaging for the source code, so that you can "sbuild -d <release>" and have everything work. Binary package is the thing with all the actual files that you install into the system. If you're doing it with Debian tools, I don't think a binary can ever exist without a source package to make it.
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> (So I'm working with source packages, when I do sbuild it makes a binary package.)
[23:34] <arraybolt3[m]> (And you upload source packages to a PPA and download binary packages.)
[23:36] <arraybolt3[m]> Was that close to right?
[23:37] <tsimonq2> Correct. Where are source packages defined? Also, let me give you an example of something called NBS, Not Built (from a) Source. They exist in e.g. package renames where the old package has to be manually removed from the archive.
[23:37] <tsimonq2> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html
[23:38] <arraybolt3[m]> "Where are source packages defined?" I'm missing something, I don't know what that means.
[23:38] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: How do you define a binary package and source package?
[23:38] <tsimonq2> Which file do you do that in?
[23:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): debian/control?
[23:39] <tsimonq2> Yep, cool. Next question, are .install files mandatory? When are they useful and do we need one in this case?
[23:39] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh great. This one I have no clue. I have to go afk, hold on...
[23:40] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, back.
[23:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I think they're mandatory, and they define where files build from the source are to be installed into the system.
[23:41] <arraybolt3[m]> (This is just a guess, I didn't consult the docs for this one.)
[23:41] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley (Developer): Back again, pinging with above potentially wrong reply.
[23:43] <tsimonq2> Consult the docs and answer again :)
[23:43] <arraybolt3[m]> Doing that right now.
[23:45] <arraybolt3[m]> Nope, not mandatory, they only describe where things go that "make install" doesn't specify. I do not know if we need one in this case, since I've not gotten that far into packaging.
[23:45] <arraybolt3[m]> (I'd guess we probably don't, though.)
[23:46] <arraybolt3[m]> (And this is why you read the docs when you're unsure rather than taking wild guesses. At least this is a quiz and training session, not a published package!)
[23:47] <arraybolt3[m]> * don't, though. Depends on how smart the makefile CMake generates is.)
[23:54] <arraybolt3[m]> How close is that to right? The document I looked at was https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dother.en.html Section 5.11, since the Debian Policy Manual didn't seem to have info about the .install files.
[23:57] <tsimonq2> Correct
 "Nope, not mandatory, they only..." <- make install does specify them
[23:58] <tsimonq2> cmake just makes literally all the files
[23:59] <tsimonq2> The job of the install file is to separate them out according to policy


[00:11] <anakron> HI all
[00:11] <anakron> hi persia
[00:12] <anakron> i have one question
[00:12] <anakron> if a package is not assigned to ubuntu motu developers
[00:13] <anakron> and it doesnt have any ubuntu version and it make that update-maintainer got useless
[00:13] <anakron> what i can do?
[00:18] <anakron> if a package is a 'Git' version
[00:20] <Hobbsee> get it fixed in debian?
[00:22] <anakron> if a package is a 'Git' version, what it means?
[00:24] <azeem> anakron: it's not a made from a release tarball, but from a git snapshot
[00:24] <anakron> so
[00:24] <anakron> how i can make a patch for it
[00:24] <anakron> it doesnt have any ubuntu version
[00:24] <azeem> what kind of patch?
[00:25] <azeem> what is the version?
[00:25] <anakron> change in .desktop file
[00:25] <anakron> 1-9.1
[00:25] <azeem> 9.1 would be the ubuntu version then, no?
[00:25] <azeem> what's the package name?
[00:25] <anakron> qtpfsgui
[00:26] <azeem> looks like "1.9.1-1build1" is the version, rather?
[00:26] <anakron> jeje si
[00:26] <anakron> yes
[00:26] <azeem> so why do you think there is no Ubuntu version?
[00:27] <anakron> nono
[00:27] <anakron> i must add it into control file?
[00:27] <azeem> add what?
[00:27] <anakron> ubuntu version?
[00:27] <azeem> for which field in control?
[00:28] <anakron> ops
[00:28] <anakron> dont worry, i was reading bad
[00:28] <anakron> the problem was
[00:29] <anakron> that the source package that i've downloaded doesnt have the same info that the package that you can see with "apt-cache show qtpfsgui"
[00:30] <azeem> that is expected, the apt-cache show info is assembled from different sources
[00:30] <anakron> so, when i tried to make an update-maintainer it cannot be done because it doesnt have a ubuntu version
[00:31] <azeem> what is "it"?
[00:31] <azeem> well
[00:31] <azeem> I never used update-maintainer, so I guess I won't be able to help you anyway
[00:31] <Hobbsee> azeem: it complains if you try to use it to update the maintainer, when it's not an ubuntu version in debian/changelog
[00:32]  * Hobbsee has no idea why anakron doesn't forward the desktop patch to debian, rather than making it require merging all the time
[00:32] <anakron> yes
[01:00] <emgent> heya
[01:50] <cody-somerville> ScottK, hey
[01:50] <ScottK> cody-somerville: Hey.
[01:51] <cody-somerville> ScottK, do you want to give me a little bit of archive admin love? ;]
[01:51] <cody-somerville> ScottK, (more specifically, sion in the new queue)
[01:51]  * ScottK isn't an archive admin.
[01:51]  * ScottK thinks you're thinking of StevenK.
[01:52] <cody-somerville> I thought they made you one too
[01:52] <ScottK> Nope.
[01:52] <ScottK> Or if they did, they forgot to tell me.
[01:55] <cody-somerville> :]
[02:54] <pythonic> hi. i dput a package, but i did not get a confimation email, and it doesn't show on revu.ubuntuwire.com
[02:54] <pythonic> how long does that take usually?
[03:00] <vorian> not long
[03:00] <vorian> pythonic: when did you upload it?
[03:01] <pythonic> maybe 15 minutes ago
[03:02] <vorian> what package?
[03:02] <pythonic> bucardo
[03:02] <pythonic> an asynchronous replication system for PostgreSQL
[03:02] <pythonic> it has Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:03] <vorian> hrm, i've uploaded to revu just now while we are chatting and it went through
[03:03] <vorian> do you have your keys synced etc...
[03:03] <vorian> ?
[03:04] <pythonic> i uploaded my key to launchpad, and logged in to revu
[03:05] <vorian> i think you need to be a member on the revu-uploader team on lp
[03:05] <vorian> maybe NCommander can comment on that :)
[03:05] <nhandler> vorian: That team is obsolete now
[03:05] <NCommander> what nhandler said
[03:05] <vorian> ah
[03:05] <nhandler> If your gpg key is in LP, and you sign into revu, it should work
[03:05] <vorian> twnhs?
[03:05] <nhandler> vorian: I'm making that a VoteBot factoid ;)
[03:05] <vorian> awesome!
[03:06] <NCommander> I don't see it in the rejection pool
[03:06] <NCommander> nor is it in incoming
[03:07] <vorian> since y'all are awake, mind looking at kwin-dekorator-kde4? (fresh on revu)
[03:07] <pythonic> i'm using the dput configuration from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[03:07] <NCommander> pythonic, it never made it to REVU it seems
[03:07] <NCommander> I can't find a rejection log, or anything in REVU-incoming
[03:07] <pythonic> dput now says Already uploaded to revu.ubuntuwire.com
[03:07] <vorian> pythonic: did you do "dput revu pythonic_special.package ?
[03:08] <vorian> ah
[03:08] <NCommander> wait, found it
[03:08] <NCommander> You did a full upload
[03:08] <pythonic> dput revu foo-0ubuntu1_amd64.changes
[03:08] <pythonic> ok.. is that bad?
[03:08] <NCommander> You need to do a source only upload or REVU will REJECT
[03:08] <NCommander> Do debuild -S -sa
[03:08] <NCommander> then upload the _source.changes
[03:09] <NCommander> (you'll probably have to give dput the -f option to force it)
[03:09] <ScottK> or just rm the .upload file.
[03:10] <ScottK> vorian: Why kde4 in the package name?  It's all kde4 now.
[03:10] <vorian> ScottK: well, it seems there is a kwin-style-dekorator still in archives
[03:10] <vorian> and it's a completely different license
[03:11] <ScottK> vorian: Then maybe just shove the new package under the old name.  If it's kde3 it's not gonna work anyway.
[03:11] <ScottK> vorian: Same upstream or a different one?
[03:11] <vorian> different, it's a port to kde4
[03:12] <ScottK> I'd still replace it.
[03:12] <vorian> ScottK: it's by the same author who did nixternal's love "skulpture"
[03:12] <vorian> ScottK: okie dokie
[03:12] <ScottK> Hmmm.  OK.
[03:12] <vorian> ScottK: sorry for pinging you so much :P
[03:12] <ScottK> Yeah.  No point in keeping broken KDE3 stuff around.
[03:12] <ScottK> No problem.
[03:12] <vorian> :)
[03:12]  * ScottK will ignore you if it gets to be too much.
[03:12] <vorian> :o
[03:12] <vorian> how rude
[03:13] <ScottK> The pinging to much or the ignoring?
[03:13] <ScottK> ;-)
[03:13] <vorian> the pinging of course
[03:17] <nhandler> vorian: I thought closing a needs-packaging bug was a requirement
[03:18] <ScottK> nhandler: Not really.  Is it written down as required anywhere?
[03:18] <NCommander> ScottK, in Debian or Ubuntu?
[03:19] <ScottK> Ubuntu
[03:19] <NCommander> THen no, its not
[03:19] <NCommander> AFAIK
[03:19] <ScottK> If it was Debian it'd be an ITP, not a needs-packaging bug.
[03:19] <ScottK> Ohhh.  Very shiny.  New lintian check: latest-debian-changelog-entry-changed-to-native
[03:19]  * ScottK thinks he'll merge lintian.
[03:20] <nhandler> ScottK: I think it is mentioned in a few other locations, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/CheckList
[03:20] <nhandler> ScottK: There is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FPackages%2FNew
[03:20] <nhandler> There it says "if there is no needs-packaging bug, file one"
[03:21] <vorian> NCommander: that little icon off to the right on a package line is the "archive" button?
[03:22] <NCommander> yeah
[03:22] <vorian> coolio
[03:26] <pythonic> NCommander: thanks, the package is uploaded now: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bucardo
[03:27] <ScottK> NCommander or vorian: Got a Kubuntu Jaunty installation handy?
[03:27] <NCommander> I can install kubuntu desktop if that's what you mean
[03:27] <NCommander> Why do you ask?
[03:36] <vorian> ScottK: yep
[04:07] <ScottK> There's some discussion about if kdenlive should require ffmpeg as a hard depends, recommends, or suggests.
[04:08] <ScottK> NCommander and vorian^^ (had to go retrieve $MIDDLE_CHILD from the mall).
[04:08] <NCommander> Recommends is best
[04:08] <NCommander> IMHO
[04:08] <ScottK> There was some discussion it wouldn't work at all without it.
[04:08] <vorian> haha
[04:09] <vorian> hrm
[04:09] <ScottK> Someone else said it was just needed for capturing on firewire.
[04:09] <ScottK> So I was hoping one of you might fire it up and see if you can use it at all without ffmpeg.
[04:09] <vorian> sure thing
[04:10] <ScottK> Thanks.
[04:11] <vorian> ScottK: what bug has the fella's finished package?
[04:11] <ScottK> vorian: I'll look, but it's uploaded, so just test with what's in the archive now.
[04:12] <vorian> ok
[04:12] <vorian> i fogot how much fun dekorator is :)
[04:12] <vorian> and with a killer kwin, it's really nice
[04:13] <ScottK> vorian: It's  Bug #269191.  Please put a comment in there once you've tested.
[04:14] <vorian> starts fine..
[04:14]  * vorian needs to find a clip
[04:21] <vorian> ScottK: this build is w/out ffmpeg? if so, it works fine.  Looking at the site however, FFmpeg does appear to be a strong recommends
[04:24] <vorian> ScottK: if you would like, i can fix it (i pulled the source)
[04:24] <ScottK> Sure thing.
[04:33] <vorian> ScottK: MLT relies on FFmpeg compilation parameters. If your distribution ships with an outdated FFmpeg version, it may not be able to use the audio and video codecs like h264 or AVCHD. In this case, recompile FFmpeg with all needed options or ask FFmpeg packager to upgrade.
[04:33] <vorian> I would say that qualifies as a Depends
[04:34] <vorian> (I was just reading further into it)
[04:34] <ScottK> Were you able to edit video without it?
[04:34] <ScottK> vorian: ^^^
[04:35] <vorian> i havent gotten that far yet
[04:35] <ScottK> vorian: OK.  If you can edit video without it, then I go recommends.  If you can't then depends.
[04:37] <vorian> roger that
[04:43] <vorian> ScottK: yep, it's required as far as i can tell
[04:43] <vorian> without it, you can't even pull up the clip
[04:44] <ScottK> OK.  Debdiff me and I'll sponsor you.
[04:44] <ScottK> vorian: Thanks for testing.
[04:44] <vorian> ScottK: i can upload it :)
[04:44] <ScottK> vorian: Right.  Forgot.  Go for it.
[04:44] <ScottK> vorian: Thanks again for taking care of it.
[04:44] <vorian> no problem \o
[04:45] <vorian> /
[07:03] <RAOF_> crimsun: Are you still planning to review nouveau-kernel-source?
[07:08] <crimsun> RAOF: yep
[07:08] <crimsun> just running through a list of (unrelated) bugs first, then i'll pop over
[07:09] <RAOF> Ta
[10:46] <AnAnt> Hello, I am intending to package a python software, can someone give me an example of a simple package for python software ?
[10:49] <RainCT> AnAnt: does it have a setup.py file?
[10:49] <AnAnt> yup
[10:49] <AnAnt> RainCT: yup
[10:49] <RainCT> AnAnt: you could have a look at fusion-icon then
[10:50] <RainCT> AnAnt: it's pretty easy, you just have to use one of the methods described on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[10:50] <AnAnt> problem is that I dont know python
[10:51] <pochu> AnAnt: that doesn't matter
[10:51] <pochu> AnAnt: have a look at emesene too
[10:51] <pochu> AnAnt: and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
[10:53] <AnAnt> emesene uses cdbs too ?
[10:55] <RainCT> AnAnt: yes - apt-cache showsrc emesene | grep Build-Dep
[10:57] <RainCT> nhandler: I've moved the perl Depends on ubuntu-dev-tools to Recommends as they are only being used by your script (and some of the other existing Depends should probably also moved there now that recommends are installed by default)
[11:01] <AnAnt> hmm, what if I just use debhelper ?
[11:02] <RainCT> AnAnt: then look at the debhelper example on the wiki. it's basically the same but you'll have to call setup.py and dh_pycentral/pysupport manually
[11:02] <pochu> I think debhelper 7 will do that for you
[11:03] <pochu> RainCT: ^
[11:04] <AnAnt> dh_pycentral ?
[11:04] <AnAnt> nevermind, that question
[14:21] <AnAnt> Hello, is there a command to convert svg to png ?
[14:22] <pochu> you can probably do that with imagemagick, but I don't know the exact command line
[14:23] <AnAnt> convert ?
[14:23] <pochu> possibly
[14:23] <AnAnt> didn't know that imagemagick supports svg
[14:39] <loic-m>  inkscape filename.svg --export-png=filename.png
[14:40] <loic-m> (if imagemagick doesn't work, or if the .svg has special inkscape properties. I'm not sure if imagemagick supports blur or transparency)
[15:08] <nhandler> RainCT: ping
[15:46] <bigon> ssmping is currentfy FTBFS (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20535239/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.ssmping_0.9.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz) if I declare __USE_GNU it builds correctly, is it an acceptable solution?
[16:20] <pochu> ScottK: the work is almost done :-) http://www.emesene.org/trac/ticket/1955
[16:25] <CarlFK> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2  http://dpaste.com/101269/
[16:26] <handschuh> CarlFK: its your remove-rules
[16:27] <handschuh> CarlFK: the make file tries to delete something out of a non-existing directory
[16:28] <soot> Anybody know of a tool that will produce colorful diffs in PDF or PS format?
[16:29] <handschuh> CarlFK: so try to create these dirs (manually, at the beginning) and see if everything wokrs
[16:29] <CarlFK> soot: here is a list I made a few years ago http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~DiffPrograms~SoftwareEng
[16:30] <pochu> You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
[16:30] <pochu> been automatically rejected.
[16:30] <pochu> nice<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:40] <CarlFK> ah, looks like export_divx4 is now ...5
[16:58] <CarlFK> rules has "-rm foo" which errors "rm: cannot remove `foo': No such file or directory" but "make: [install] Error 1 (ignored)".  is the - before the rm what ignores the error?
[17:01] <pochu> CarlFK: yes
[17:01] <pochu> CarlFK: you could also do `rm -f foo`
[17:01] <pochu> -f will ignore errors too
[17:01] <pochu> (in rm)
[17:02] <CarlFK> is the - prefix being recognized by dpkg-buildpackage ?
[17:02] <pochu> I think it should
[17:03] <pochu> that's from make
[17:03] <pochu> and dpkg-buildpackage should run "make debian/rules clean" or something like that
[17:03] <pochu> or that's what I think :)
[17:04] <CarlFK> oh yeah, it is make that says "(ignored) "
[17:35] <ScottK> pochu: Great.
[17:37] <sebner> ScottK: you christmas present arrived (kdenlive) \o/
[17:37] <sebner> *your
[17:42] <ScottK> Yep.
[17:42] <ScottK> I didn't even have to package it.  ;-)
[17:43] <CarlFK> why does the s/f in "aptitude -s -f build-dep" cause  "Would download/install/remove packages." instead of installing?  http://dpaste.com/101297/
[18:06] <nhandler> NCommander: Aren't you a REVU admin?
[18:06] <RainCT> nhandler: pong
[18:07] <nhandler> RainCT: Is there any reason you changed the name on the changelog entry for u-d-t?
[18:08] <RainCT> nhandler: no, dch does that automatically
[18:08] <nhandler> RainCT: Ok. I wanted to push a new change, and just wanted to make sure.
[18:09] <nhandler> Also, do you really think it is worth having listing "Add foo to Depends" and "Move foo from Depends to Recommends" in the chnagelog entry? I can understand having it in the bzr commit log, but is it really needed in the package changelog?
[18:09] <RainCT> nhandler: for ubuntu-dev-tools, usually when someone uploads a new version to the archives (s)he changes it to himself anyway
[18:09] <RainCT> nhandler: and no, feel free to remove that
[18:10] <nhandler> Ok, thanks.
[18:17] <serialorder> anyone want to sponsor a really easy merge for me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icedove-nostalgy/+bug/303702
[18:17] <nhandler> serialorder: I'll take a look at it
[18:19] <nhandler> serialorder: Your changelog entry has a few minor issues
[18:20] <nhandler> 1) You have an extra *
[18:20] <nhandler> 2) For the change to the description, move the "debian/control" line so it is either at the beginning of the previous line or before the previous line
[18:21] <nhandler> And is it even worth doing the merge? The Ubuntu->Ubuntu debdiff is pretty much empty
[18:22] <nhandler> The one change that they made in Debian was changing thunderbird to icedove in the description. Since we revert the change in the merge, I don't see any point in merging this version
[18:25] <serialorder> ok well just leave it for when the next version gets merged then
[18:29] <Turl> hello
[18:29] <Turl> do you package flashplugin-nonfree ?
[18:32] <Turl> if you do, may I ask why sbdy marked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/310031 as invalid?
[18:34] <pochu> crimsun: ^ you closed that bug without a comment
[18:35] <sebner> does there already exist a 64bit flashplugin?
[18:35]  * sebner winks pochu =)
[18:37] <pochu> sebner: yes :P http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
[18:38] <sebner> pochu: well, alpha
[18:41] <pochu> sebner: your question was wether it existed or not; the answer is yes ;)
[18:42] <sebner> pochu: true so we also have the answer why this bug was marked as invalid ;) we don't ship alpha software
[18:42] <pochu> anyway, I think the bug should have been closed with a comment
[18:44] <ScottK> sebner: Sure we do.    In the case of Flash that would be redundant though.
[18:48] <sebner> heh
[18:48] <sebner> pochu: sure
[19:02] <mrooney> if anyone wants to help me out and review a simple cdbs packaging of a python distutils app "wxbanker", I would greatly appreciate any comments or feedback :)
[19:02] <loic-m> flashplugin-nonfree already installs 64bits flash. Why was the bug submitted?
[20:33] <crimsun> pochu: i closed that bug because 1) the existing flashplugin-nonfree does precisely what the summary requests; 2) i spoke with bug reporter in #ubuntu+1 immediately
[20:34] <crimsun> pochu: while i agree that an explanation in the bug report would have been icing on the cake, i felt it was unnecessary to recap what has been wasted in not so many words over the past several days in several irc channels, forum posts, mailing lists, ad nauseum.
[20:35] <pochu> crimsun: ah, good :) sorry if I was picky
[21:18] <loic-m> I've updated the bug description. If the question comes back in the next few days, maybe we can edit the title too...
[21:26] <CarlFK> I need a gui to display a .diff so that I can see what really changed...
[21:27] <CarlFK> wish the guy that was looking for that was still around...
[21:33] <crimsun> wow, ucf's ncurses/dialog diff viewer is uh, pretty difficult to read
[21:34] <cody-somerville> ScottK, In your e-mail, did you mean ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-devel merge?
[21:35] <crimsun> loic-m: thanks
[21:39] <CarlFK> kompare has "open diff" - exactly what I need
[21:40] <ScottK> cody-somerville: For motu specific stuff (of which there isn't much any more) keep either MC or MOTU list and then all the development stuff would go to ubuntu-devel.
[21:40] <CarlFK> and it's flowy graphics stuff is pretty useful
[21:46] <CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/i386/libavcodec-dev/filelist  /usr/include/ffmpeg/avcodec.h
[21:46] <CarlFK> what puts that file there?
[21:47] <CarlFK> libavcodec-dev comes from ffmpeg, and ffmpeg puts it in  /usr/local/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h
[21:50] <ScottK> If it's from the packaged ffmpeg, it better not put it in /usr/local.
[21:51] <CarlFK> ScottK  ffmpeg trunk defaults to  /usr/local/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h
[21:52] <CarlFK> something is changing that.  I want to point to that for why something else should follow
[21:53] <crimsun> your "that"s are ambiguous =)
[21:54] <crimsun> keep in mind that the pkgconfig file that ships with libavcodec-dev provides the preprocessor with the path
[21:54] <CarlFK> damm.. I am noramly pretty good about avoiding pronows
[21:54] <crimsun> so just look for libavcodec.pcs scattered across your FS
[21:55] <crimsun> e.g., do you have a /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/libavcodec.pc ?
[21:56] <CarlFK> yup. looking ...
[21:57] <CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/101371/
[21:58] <crimsun> right, as expected. but, do you in fact want the ffmpeg in /usr/local to be used?
[22:01] <CarlFK> well, I want there to be only one.  http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/jaunty/ffmpeg2theora currently patches this include lines to look for it .. oh crap... I got confused.
[22:01] <CarlFK> the patch is +#include "ffmpeg/avformat.h"
[22:01] <CarlFK> let me rewind and track down avformat.h
[22:03] <crimsun> well, of use to you may be $PKG_CONFIG_PATH and --define-variable=prefix somepath
[22:03] <CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/i386/libavformat-dev/filelist /usr/include/ffmpeg/avformat.h
[22:03] <CarlFK> I have gotten everything installed and working, but it took some futzing
[22:03] <crimsun> alternately, simply remove the system-wide packages generated from ffmpeg source
[22:04] <CarlFK> trying to figure out what should be updated so the next person (maybe me) doesn't have to futz
[22:05] <loic-m> I'm trying to package a really simple application (command line, only 2 binaries, one for compression the other for decompression)
[22:05] <loic-m> using dh_make
[22:06] <loic-m> However it comes with no makefile, no configure
[22:06] <loic-m> I'm at the stade where I edit debian/rules
[22:07] <loic-m> build-stamp: should I make a makefile, or can i just write a gcc name_of_the_source_file?
[22:08] <CarlFK> loic-m: i would make a make file.
[22:08] <CarlFK> I would rather have a simple makefile than have to figure out why there is no makefile
[22:09] <CarlFK> but that;s just me, and generally I don't know what the heck is going on :)
[22:13] <loic-m> Should i learn how to write one, or is there a generic one or a tool to generate one?
[22:15] <CarlFK> autotools will generate it, and maybe that would follow my "provide the expected files" approach...
[22:16] <crimsun> loic-m: it's really up to you (the maintainer) regarding what to put into debian/rules, but i, too, recommend creating a Makefile(s)
[22:16] <crimsun> loic-m: the syntax for Makefiles is pretty straightforward
[22:17] <crimsun> (of course there are people who argue that make and Makefiles, recursive or otherwise, are Bad)
[22:19] <loic-m> Is there a simple documentation on how to write makefiles? I'm trying using google, but the makefile I'm writing doesn't work when I type make
[22:20] <loic-m> Makefile:20: *** commands commence before first target. Stop.
[22:20] <directhex> what's the normal length of time between a sync ack and an archive admin making it happen?
[22:21] <crimsun> http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/make/Simple-Makefile.html
[22:21] <mgdm> loic-m: in an instance of extraordinary levels of "WTF", Makefiles differentiate between tabs and spaces
[22:21] <mgdm> it might be something to do with that
[22:21] <crimsun> yes, beware the tab requirement
[22:22] <CarlFK> that's pretty complex for simple-makefile
[22:22] <crimsun> directhex: probably on the order of a couple days
[22:22] <crimsun> really depends who's on holiday/asleep/building death ray machines
[22:30] <loic-m> thanks, the other pages explains it too
[22:31] <directhex> bloody death rays. always keepin' me down
[22:37] <loic-m> however when I use cc foo.c it produces the binary, but names it a.out
[22:38] <loic-m> how do I tell it to name it foo instead?
[22:38] <DRebellion> loic-m, cc foo.c -o foo
[22:38] <loic-m> thanks
[22:39] <loic-m> since it only produces the binaries, I don't need a clean target?
[22:41] <DRebellion> loic-m, in your makefile? make clean should return the tarball to the state before you called make. ie. it should delete the binaries
[22:43] <loic-m> ok, so no need for it in makefile
[23:14] <CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/101391/ /usr/include$ cd ffmpeg =  No such file or directory
[23:14] <CarlFK> "Setting up libavformat-dev" - shouldn't that have installed /usr/include/ffmpeg/avformat.h http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/i386/libavformat-dev/filelist
[23:20] <nhandler> Anyone feel like reviewing plasmoid-spellcheck on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=plasmoid-spellcheck
[23:21] <loic-m> To install files, I use in debian/rules the command: install -m 755 -t /usr/bin ecm unecm
[23:22] <loic-m> However when I run pbuilder-intrepid (testing if it works) I get the error: install: cannot create regular file `/usr/bin/ecm': Permission denied
[23:39] <cody-somerville> Anyone here familiar with Valgrind?
[23:40] <cody-somerville> It doesn't appear to be able to build in Jaunty due to the new glibc version
[23:40] <cody-somerville> configure: error: Valgrind requires glibc version 2.2 - 2.7
[23:42] <ScottK> I know the existing one works on Jaunty.  I've used it.
[23:42] <cody-somerville> Weird, the news file says 3.3.1 adds support for glibc 2.8
[23:42] <ScottK> Did you look in Experimental for a newer one?
[23:43] <cody-somerville> ScottK, yes
[23:44] <cody-somerville> ScottK, I imagine valgrind would FTBFS in Debian too under experimental but not unstable since it still has 2.7
[23:47] <loic-m> I manage to build a package, but it contains no binaries :(
[23:47] <loic-m> in debian/rules for install: , after the lines generated by dh_make I've got
[23:47] <loic-m>         $(MAKE) prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr
[23:48] <loic-m> 	install -m 755 ecm $(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr/bin
[23:48] <loic-m> (one of the two binaries is ecm, I'm trying with one first)
[23:49] <loic-m> if I just put install instead of install -m 755 ecm $(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr/bin it's the same result
[23:53] <cody-somerville> ScottK, ah
[23:53] <cody-somerville> ScottK, it appears there is a debian patch that sets the version
[23:54]  * WelshDragon test
[23:54]  * WelshDragon asd
[23:58] <cody-somerville> ScottK, (or there was in the past, it doesn't get applied anymore)