 I haven't found how to access other channels via Telegram without direct links, so I post it here: there appears to be a regression in several Distros other than Neon, including Kubuntu 19.04, please see https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=161532
 it's not a very frequently used function, but apparently has escaped people's vigilance
 @Mamarok, I don't know that posting a link to a forum post in the Council channel about a bug is going to do much
 well, somebody can forward it, for example?  So go on, forward  it!
 dev*
 as I said, I don't have found a way to #kubuntu-devel from Telegram, and my IRC bouncer doesn't connect anymore
 gosh my English is bad tonight, "I haven't found a way", of course
[22:50] <valorie> I'll try to invite you, @mamarok
[22:51] <valorie>  done


[22:17] <holstein> Prock81: you mean, the config for compiz?
[22:17] <MonkeyDust> holstein  or you can symlink everything to your /home, if it is not on a different drive
[22:17] <Prock81> yes
[22:17] <Prock81> correct
[22:17] <holstein> Prock81: so, what are you saying? you are fine now?
[22:17] <hylian> Dr_Willis: well, I waste a lot of time waiting for Ubuntu to install all my apps again. I have done everything I can to automate it using bash scripts, but it still is slow. (And I like to tinker with other systems natively to see how they will run)
[22:18] <Prock81> yes
[22:18] <holstein> Prock81: enjoy.. i have nothing to add, then
[22:18] <Dr_Willis> hylian:  so you.. err. make a clone of what you got and you are going to save that clone to restore later? or what exactly
[22:18] <Prock81> thanks
[22:18] <reisio> hylian: okay, let's take a step back
[22:18] <reisio> hylian: why would you reinstall the OS at all
[22:18] <reisio> this is not something that you need to do
[22:18] <wiehan> I can't get the little app fslint to start I get the error pygtk2.0-libglade yet python and python-gtk2 and python-glade is installed
[22:19] <hylian> Dr_Willis: right, the idea is to get back to my normal desktop (xfcer or lxde + ubuntu) quickly. that way I can mess around with the least amount of pain.
[22:19] <Dr_Willis> hylian:  use clonezilla to make an image somewhere.
[22:19] <Dr_Willis> hylian:  no need to 'reinstall' you would use clonezliia to 'restore' the image
[22:19] <holstein> hylian: snapshots in VM... "mess around" on a live CD
[22:20] <reisio> except using clonezilla would be the slow way
[22:20] <hylian> Dr_Willis: hmm, ok. I was torn between that and reisio's idea of just tarballing /.
[22:20] <Dr_Willis> hylian:  i imagine clonezilla will be easier.
[22:20] <reisio> clonezilla is magic, you won't know what it's doing
[22:20] <reisio> and it'll probably waste your time with more than a file copy
[22:20] <hylian> holstein: I have one machine, and vm sucks. I want to see how these distro's would work if they where on the hd. only one way I know of to do that.
[22:21] <jago25_98> If I go to type my email address in a signup page in firefox and somebody else's email is autocompleted for me... have i been hacked?/
[22:21] <hylian> Dr_Willis: ok, that helps greatly, thanks!
[22:21] <holstein> hylian: then, choose a method, friend.. there are lots of options here..
[22:21] <Dr_Willis> I have no issues with testing disrtos in virtualbox.
[22:21] <MonkeyDust> jago25_98  it's probably gone after you erased firefox history
[22:21] <hylian> holstein: i think i have, thanks. Dr_Willis gave me some good pointers for why clonzilla is the liekyl best way to go.
[22:22] <Prock81> there is one thing i would love to see changed in the unity launcher... the say way Alt+Tab gets reordered as you switch applications, I would love to see that happen the the unity launcher, active or most recently opened thats in the background, there icons be at the top, in the same order as Alt+Tab menu. CAN THAT BE DONE!!!!!
[22:22] <hylian> thanks again all! off i got to clonezilla my machine.
[22:22] <holstein> hylian: i keep my data /home backed up as i said.. and i use virtualbox snapshots and live CD's.. cloning is a great way to clone..
[22:22] <hylian> holstein: thanks, i will do that.
[22:22] <holstein> Prock81: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/Wishlist
[22:23] <Prock81> thanks !
[22:23] <Dr_Willis> Prock81:  compiz has other plugins and settings to tweak your alt-tab fetishes
[22:23] <jago25_98> MonkeyDust: somebody elses email address is offered as if someone else has been using it, an address I don't recognise
[22:24] <MonkeyDust> jago25_98  i can't explain it, but i've also never heard or read linux being hacked
[22:25] <jago25_98> MonkeyDust: the FBI put javascript on the Tormail servers but I think that was only effecting Windows. The puzzle I still have is... what are these email addresses doing in my autocomplete..
[22:25] <holstein> jago25_98: maybe try a security channel
[22:25] <Prock81> Dr_Willis, im talking more about the launcher, just using that menu as a reference to make my point for the feature
[22:28] <loin> good news failmaster
[22:28] <failmaster> loin, ?
[22:29] <loin> the error message is no longer no cuda compatible device detected
[22:29] <loin> now it's the installed NVIDIA CUDA driver is older than the CUDA runtime library. This is not a supported configuration. Users should install an updated NVIDIA display driver to allow the application to run
[22:29] <loin> so nvidia current works, but it's too old i'm afraid
[22:30] <loin> failmaster, brb reboot
[22:30] <holstein> loin: well, thats not true, necessarily
[22:31] <failmaster> yeah i wouldn't hurry with conclusions seeing such error messages
[22:32] <misterx> hi there
[22:32] <misterx> can you tell me where gwibber stores it's data?
[22:32] <misterx> it's not ~/.gwibber as far as i can see
[22:32] <Dr_Willis> misterx:  commonly is in .config these days
[22:32] <holstein> misterx: what "data 'are you looking for?
[22:33] <Dr_Willis> misterx:  try ls -R | grep gwibber
[22:33] <failmaster> i have a problem with switching passphrase luks auth on boot to key file based, extra details: http://askubuntu.com/questions/330660/what-is-the-correct-way-to-use-key-file-luks-authorization anyone?
[22:33] <daftykins> failmaster: heh still that one eh?
[22:33] <misterx> holstein: config, tweets
[22:33] <failmaster> daftykins, yup, not a word from anyone still lol
[22:33] <daftykins> :(
[22:34] <holstein> misterx: tweets? those will be in twitter
[22:34] <misterx> holstein: no download?
[22:34] <loin> failmaster, if i use the ubuntu repository nvidia-current i get that the cuda driver is too old, if i use nvidia's nvidia-current, i get no cuda capable device, this stinks
[22:34] <holstein> misterx: what did you download?
[22:34] <holstein> loin: i would relax, and give it some time.. about 10 minutes ago, you had no driver support
[22:34] <johnny_123> Has anyone installed openvpn on ubuntu server with openvz?
[22:34] <failmaster> loin, i see the situation clear, it's in the wrong state in context of optimus switch(es)
[22:35] <holstein> jago25_98: yes
[22:35] <holstein> jago25_98: sorry .. johnny_123 ^^
[22:35] <loin> holstein, i've been trying for the past months to get this running
[22:35] <misterx> holstein: nothing so far. just wanted to check what i'd need to synchronise between my desktop and netbook
[22:35] <johnny_123> Jeez, Ive had so much trouble I cant even tell you. For some reason I can get the certificates set up and everything but its routing the traffic
[22:35] <johnny_123> Do you know any good guides by any chance?
[22:35] <piovisqui> Hi folks, will Ubuntu Edge work on Brazil's 4G at 2.5GHz???
[22:36] <holstein> loin: well, you came here about 10 minutes ago running the open driver and now you have the proprietary one
[22:36] <holstein> loin: what are you trying to do?
[22:36] <loin> holstein, i was running the proprietary one all the way
[22:36] <johnny_123> Tun/TAP is enabled on rocketvps, which is the VPS provider I have
[22:36] <daftykins> !touch | piovisqui
[22:36] <loin> holstein, just the experimental one, not the current one
[22:36] <piovisqui> daftykins: thanks
[22:36] <holstein> loin: no.. thats the issue you had when you came here.. that the driver wasnt installed
[22:36] <loin> holstein, program cuda i suppose
[22:36] <holstein> loin: no supposing, at all. what *exactly* are you trying to do
[22:37] <loin> holstein, get cuda running so i can program it
[22:37] <holstein> loin: are you using https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Cuda ?
[22:37] <misterx> kay, thanks for the info ;)
[22:37] <misterx> gnight
[22:37] <holstein> loin: how and from where did you "get" cuda?
[22:37] <holstein> loin: i would ask that source for one that supports the driver that is supporting your device
[22:38] <loin> holstein, developer.nvidia.com
[22:38] <holstein> loin: cool.. have you asked them why the product isnt working with the driver you are using?
[22:38] <johnny_123> holstein: sorry to bother you, but have you got any info on setting up openvpn on ubuntu server with openvz virtualization?
[22:39] <holstein> johnny_123: actually, i didnt use openvz.. i just set it up from the wiki pages
[22:39] <holstein> !vpn
[22:39] <loin> holstein, nope
[22:39] <holstein> johnny_123: and ive since taken it down
[22:40] <holstein> loin: they are providing the package.. i would ask them for support.. otherise, the ubuntu supplied proprietary driver is doing what is intended
[22:40] <johnny_123> ill definately check out the wikis for this and try my best, but routing my traffic is where everything just goes. Thanks for the link ubottu, but I want a vpn server with assymetric encryption
[22:41] <loin> holstein, maybe you're right
[22:41] <failmaster> before going on with whatever is end goal i would check if discrete nvidia adapter is even working at all in terms of it's direct functions
[22:41] <failmaster> i have a problem with switching passphrase luks auth on boot to key file based, extra details: http://askubuntu.com/questions/330660/what-is-the-correct-way-to-use-key-file-luks-authorization anyone?
[22:42] <holstein> yeah.. im assuming you have testing the driver loin
[22:44] <SunTsu> Somehow NetworkManager seems to want to use dhcp on my 3g dialup interface despite being configured for ppp - which doesn't make too much sense. wvdial does the right thing and uses IPCP and gets its IP quickly while NetworkManager hangs in dhcp forever.
[22:44] <johnny_123> Also do any of you guys know how to get network-manager-openvpn on ubuntu client to use a configuration file?
[22:44] <sasha|> O hai
[22:45] <failmaster> johnny_123, there should be an import dialog somewhere, can't be precise on that due to the fact i don't have one installed
[22:45] <sasha|> I was just wondering, would it be easier to wireshark traffic from my tablet over wifi using an OpenWRT router with a mirrored port, or a laptop with it's own access point through a wifi card?
[22:45] <sasha|> The later sounds easier for me but I don't know if it would work
[22:45] <SunTsu> Is there a way to make NetworkManager use ppp/IPCP? The strange thing is, it it creates a "wwan0" interface instead of a "ppp0" one, like it used to
[22:46] <IdleOne> sasha|: probably best to ask that in ##networking
[22:46] <sasha|> k cheers
[22:46] <johnny_123> failmaster: thanks for the help, Im giving it one last go. The worst thing is that I am a system admin for a very large webhosting company but this VPS environments are a whole different game
[22:46] <failmaster> sasha|, you could tcpdump the session on openwrt router if there is enough space and look through it using wireshark later
[22:47] <geri_> hi, i tried to mount /dev/sdb1 but got the message: mount:unknown filesysyem type 'LVM2_member
[22:47] <geri_> what does it mean?
[22:47] <sasha|> nah it's massive… I'm trying to get RTMP stream urls, by the time I find the HTTP requests, several dozens of mb's have already been transfered
[22:47] <bekks> geri_: Whats the entire command you are using?
[22:47] <SunTsu> geri_: it means hat you're trying to mount an lvm partition, you need to mount /dev/mapper/...
[22:48] <SunTsu> geri_: use lvs to see what volumes are there and mount them the ways you need to
[22:48] <failmaster> johnny_123, you could make openvpn working as system service along with dhcp/static network configuration without network manager stuff or if it's nevessary, there is an alternative wicd tool, i experienced problems with network-manager while trying manually tune network things
[22:49] <geri_> SunTsu: http://pastebin.com/FTSj4Fe0
[22:50] <Dr_Willis> !lvm
[22:50] <geri_> bekks:
[22:50] <bekks> geri_: sudo blkid -g; sudo blkid
[22:51] <seth> Hello!
[22:52] <geri_> bekks: http://pastebin.com/2Eq9C4j9
[22:53] <geri_> bekks: its already mounted? to which target?
[22:53] <bekks> geri_: Who says its already mounted?
[22:53] <geri_> bekks: no its not
[22:53] <bekks> geri_: It cant be. :)
[22:54] <geri_> bekks: so how can i mount /dev/sdb1 now?
[22:54] <bekks> geri_: You cant, because sdb1 is part of a logical volume group, and you have to mount the logical volume, not the physical volume.
[22:54] <bekks> geri_: sudo lvdisplay -C
[22:55] <geri_> bekks: http://pastebin.com/SGF0tC3p
[22:55] <bekks> geri_: -C not -c
[22:56] <geri_> ok
[22:56] <geri_> bekks: http://pastebin.com/9qrs9CQv
[22:57] <geri_> bekks: but its part of LVM2 ?
[22:57] <bekks> geri_: Its not part of LVM2, its a member of a LVM2 volume group called "VolGroup". Btw, that looks like a RHEL layout - correct?
[22:58] <geri_> bekks: yeah
[22:58] <bekks> geri_: Then how is it related to ubuntu? :D
[22:58] <daftykins> omw wrong distro - cast him OUT!
[22:58] <geri_> bekks: ^^
[22:58] <OerHeks> geri_ this is the 3th day you keep fooling us :-D
[22:58] <failmaster> loool
[22:58] <daftykins> he's a slippery eel
[22:58] <geri_> OerHeks: i dont fool u :)
[22:58] <bekks> geri_: Just mount it like this: sudo mount /dev/VolGroup/lv_home /mnt/myhome   -- e.g.
[22:59] <bekks> OerHeks: He instantly admitted - thats not fooling ;) OK, he didnt tell us all he knew, so lets send him to Fort Meade. :>
[23:00] <geri_> bekks: that was not the right partition ^^
[23:00] <bekks> geri_: LVM does not have partitions, but logical volumes only. You have two logical volumes, lv_root and lv_home which can be mounted.
[23:01] <bekks> geri_: You cannot mount a physical LVM2 member.
[23:01] <failmaster> i have a problem with switching passphrase luks auth on boot to key file based, extra details: http://askubuntu.com/questions/330660/what-is-the-correct-way-to-use-key-file-luks-authorization anyone?
[23:01] <geri_> bekks, and /dev/sdb1 is part of it?
[23:01] <geri_> bekks:
[23:02] <bekks> geri_: sudo pvdisplay -C (yes, capital C again).
[23:02] <geri_> i cant see someth with 2GB
[23:02] <geri_> bekks:
[23:02] <bekks> geri_: And we have to guess what you are seeing? :)
[23:04] <geri_> bekks: http://pastebin.com/XwFeVsX1
[23:05] <bekks> geri_: I said: sudo pvdisplay -C
[23:06] <geri_> bekks: here: http://pastebin.com/6DkFiUAf/
[23:06] <bekks> geri_: /dev/sdb1 is a physical LVM2 volume, but it isnt assigned to a volume group.
[23:07] <geri_> bekks: how to mount sdb1?
[23:07] <bekks> geri_: read: you cannot mount a physical LVM2 volume.
[23:07] <bekks> geri_: I told you two time already.
[23:07] <geri_> bekks: oh...
[23:08] <daniel_> hi!/j #rails
[23:09] <Sling> I'm getting repeated errors about 'file:///cdrom/pool/main/e/expat/libexpat1_2.0.1-7.2ubuntu1.1_amd64.deb' being corrupted during base install
[23:09] <geri_> bekks: can you explain me more details about?
[23:09] <bekks> geri_: I already did, please read the backlog. :)
[23:09] <Sling> mounted the ISO directly in a vsphere environment
[23:09] <Sling> downloaded again, just to be sure, same issue
[23:09] <geri_> bekks: why would u use a physical LVM2 volume?
[23:09] <bekks> geri_: For building a logical volume group.
[23:09] <Aelius> ok all I want to do is install "flashrom"
[23:10] <Aelius> I enabled the universe package
[23:10] <Sling> this is the 12.04.2 LTS 64-bit version
[23:10] <Aelius> its stil not found
[23:10] <Aelius> whats going on
[23:10] <bekks> geri_: A VG (volume group) consists of one or more PV (physical volume), and you can create LV (logical volume) in the VG as you like.
[23:10] <bekks> !lvm | geri_
[23:14] <Wytshadow> can anyone help me with an install issue?
[23:14] <daftykins> ask away
[23:14] <daftykins> what's happening?
[23:14] <Wytshadow> so i'm trying to run a live cd or live usb on an hp pavilion g6. however it keeps getting stuck on the ubuntu splash page
[23:15] <daftykins> Wytshadow: nvidia graphics?
[23:15] <Wytshadow> the dots under the logo move for a sec then everything stops.
[23:15] <bekks> !nomodeset | Wytshadow
[23:15] <holstein> !nomodeset | Wytshadow
[23:15] <Sling> are there any MD5 hashes of the iso's on the ubuntu.com site?
[23:15] <holstein> Sling: yes
[23:16] <Aelius> someone please explain why, from the bootable environment, flashrom is not showing up in the software center and is "not found" from cmd
[23:16] <failmaster> Sling, http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[23:16] <Aelius> from the terminal
[23:17] <holstein> !flashroom
[23:17] <holstein> !info flashrom
[23:17] <holstein> Aelius: apt-get update? maybe
[23:17] <Sling> failmaster: ah, nice
[23:17] <Sling> also found some now @ http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cdimages/12.04.2/release/
[23:17] <Aelius> holstein: list of sources could not be read
[23:17] <Aelius> malformed line 5
[23:17] <holstein> Aelius: is the machine online?
[23:17] <Wytshadow> daftykins: its not nVidia its AMD radeon
[23:18] <Aelius> holstein: yes
[23:18] <holstein> !md5 | Aelius i would confirm the iso
[23:19] <pilinha> hey
[23:19] <daftykins> Wytshadow: ah well give the nomodeset advice a go, should help out
[23:20] <pilinha> hey
[23:20] <pilinha> why doesnt fern wifi open
[23:20] <failmaster> Sling, sorry, i'm not sure that the table i provided refers to control sums, better look through sums provided from your link and that Aelius thing
[23:20] <litropy> join ##vapers
[23:20] <litropy> whoops :D
[23:20] <holstein> pilinha: fern wifi?
[23:20] <pilinha> yes
[23:20] <Sling> failmaster: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes#A12.04_LTS
[23:21] <holstein> pilinha: what is "fern wifi"
[23:21] <Sling> my download does not match that md5sum though
[23:21] <pilinha> Its a "security cracker"
[23:21] <Sling> so it is indeed corrupt
[23:21] <pilinha> if you know what I mean
[23:21] <holstein> pilinha: i would ask in a security channel
[23:21] <pilinha> Fern Wifi Cracker
[23:21] <pilinha> it doesnt open
[23:21] <pilinha> just says opening fern
[23:21] <pilinha> but it doesnt
[23:22] <pilinha> the installation was okay
[23:22] <pilinha> but the software does not open
[23:22] <wilee-nilee> pilinha, wifi does not need cracking just the packages captured from what I understand, the channel does not support actual use but only installation.
[23:23] <holstein> pilinha: did you install fern from the repos? i dont find it in the default repos
[23:23] <pilinha> No
[23:23] <pilinha> I installed with wget
[23:23] <pilinha> i believe its a python app
[23:23] <holstein> pilinha: then, you will get support from where you obtained the packages
[23:23] <bekks> wget cant install anything, wget just downloads things.
[23:23] <failmaster> pilinha, it would be better to get some support on #backtrack or other kali distribution support channels
[23:23] <pilinha> k
[23:23] <holstein> pilinha: i would try a security channel
[23:24] <pilinha> thank you
[23:25] <cartusia> How am i supposed to modify a file that does not give me permissions? For example I want to add a line specifically or change and delete something
[23:26] <holstein> !sudo | cartusia
[23:26] <cartusia> I have been reading a lot to figure out. But nothing so far that solves my particular problem.
[23:26] <Micko113> Connected to Ubuntu 12.04 via remote desktop and when I start Teamviewer it stays open for couple of seconds and it closes, what could it be?
[23:26] <cartusia> that wont help me
[23:26] <holstein> cartusia: sudo nano /path/to/file for example
[23:26] <cartusia> hmmm I think that might help :)
[23:26] <Lectus> Hello! I have Ubuntu  13.04 installed. I want to install XFCE along with xubuntu artwork, basically xubuntu without the apps and keeping my apps. Will "sudo apt-get install xfce4 xubuntu-artwork" do it?
[23:27] <holstein> cartusia: sudo, to open with permission.. and "nano" is a text editor..
[23:27] <holstein> !gksudo
[23:27] <cartusia> yes I know its a text editor :)
[23:27] <holstein> cartusia: gksudo gedit to open from a GUI, for example
[23:28] <failmaster> i have a problem with switching passphrase luks auth on boot to key file based, extra details: http://askubuntu.com/questions/330660/what-is-the-correct-way-to-use-key-file-luks-authorization anyone?
[23:28] <cartusia> and can I just be able to overwrite the file and save the changes then?
[23:29] <holstein> cartusia: yes
[23:29] <bigbadben> everytime I try to use quickly to run a app I get a error http://pastebin.com/wCUpaT3T
[23:29] <cartusia> appreciate it wow, it was really stupid I tried with vi but I never thought of opening it with sudo also :(
[23:29] <Sling> lets see if my 3rd download has the right md5sum...
[23:29] <Sling> feels like im downloading over udp
[23:29] <wilee-nilee> failmaster, Do you really need luks, is what I ask.
[23:29] <failmaster> wilee-nilee, yep
[23:29] <holstein> cartusia: sudo is just for permissions.. you can open the file with whatever you want
[23:30] <bigbadben> I googled around but it seems to be a bug in python, is there a easy way to just get a clean start of all python and python related packages?
[23:30] <Wytshadow> thanks for the help guys! but i have another question, Since i had to set the nomodeset option to off to run the liveCD, do i have to permanently turn that off when i install ubuntu?
[23:30] <wilee-nilee> failmaster, I doubt that but carry on, might be a flawed core value.
[23:30] <daftykins> Wytshadow: no, you'll be able to install a graphics driver and avoid it eventually
[23:30] <holstein> Wytshadow: you dont have to do anything.. you can choose to use that option to install, and then add whatever proprietary driver you might need
[23:31] <cartusia> love you bro :)
[23:31] <failmaster> wilee-nilee, you may continue doubt it without bothering me with it lol
[23:31] <wilee-nilee> failmaster, It will be my pleasure to do so. ;)
[23:32] <Micko113> Connected to Ubuntu 12.04 via remote desktop and when I start Teamviewer it stays open for couple of seconds and it closes, what could it be?
[23:32] <wilee-nilee> !info Teamviewer
[23:32] <holstein> Micko113: using the same "protocol" maybe... why do both?
[23:33] <fommil> hi all, which package contains the gfortran static library?
[23:33] <wilee-nilee> Micko113, What release are you running, and where did you get Teamviewer?
[23:33] <Micko113> software center
[23:33] <failmaster> wilee-nilee, it works actually with key script, but i don't like mine for example and i'm not sure it will stop working once upon a time due to how it works keeping the key in initrd image which requires from me giving and additional hook for it's rebuilding
[23:33] <holstein> i think the issue is, the dual remote desktop setup
[23:33] <failmaster> so yeah i really need it working
[23:33] <Micko113> !info Teamviewer
[23:33] <failmaster> won't stop*
[23:34] <holstein> teamveiwer is not in the repos
[23:34] <reisio> fommil: ask apt-file
[23:34] <Micko113> http://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/linux.aspx
[23:35] <Micko113> so it can't be run?
[23:35] <holstein> Micko113: i would try *only* teamviewer
[23:35] <holstein> Micko113: i use it
[23:35] <Micko113> holstein: please explain *only*
[23:35] <holstein> Micko113: dont be connected via remote desktop *and* teamviewer
[23:35] <fommil> reisio: cool, never knew about that
[23:36] <Micko113> how do I know ID and pass then?
[23:36] <Sling> So I downloaded the 12.04.2-amd64 iso three times now, with 3x incorrect hashes, from http://www.ubuntu.com/start-download?distro=server&bits=64&release=lts
[23:36] <Sling> any way to find out which mirror it picks so i can at least debug it networkwise?
[23:36] <Micko113> it closes fast I don't have time to configure and set pass
[23:36] <Dr_Willis> slig try the torrents perhaps?
[23:36] <MoPac> Hello - I'm looking for support with keyrings. I'm trying to figure out how to (1) get my PGP password to timeout, as per Enigmail instructions, and (2) set the "unlock this keyring at login" box to UNchecked by default when unlocking a secondary keyring
[23:37] <holstein> Micko113: i would do whatever it takes to test with *only* teamviewer.. you can set a static password.. and connect via your accoung online AFAIK
[23:37] <cartusia> why is glipper not integrated into Unity?
[23:37] <reisio> fommil: :D
[23:37] <holstein> Micko113: if yuo are asking me "why is teamviewer not working?" im saying, it might be becuase you are using remote desktop already
[23:37] <failmaster> Sling, consider as option to download it from torrents link i gave you, look into iso contents for sums and make sure it's all in there
[23:38] <wilee-nilee> Sling, I would torrent it or try the alternative maybe.
[23:38] <fommil> reisio: and turns out I have it already. That was an expensive way to do a locate
[23:38] <Micko113> ok, let me close current session and try
[23:38] <wilee-nilee> Sling, Posting the actual download is not really a good way to get help,
[23:39] <cartusia> never mind, it is working its just not launching from the other but it works from a terminal
[23:39] <Sling> wilee-nilee: I understand, but that's pretty much all I have
[23:39] <reisio> fommil: :)
[23:39] <Sling> im trying the torrent as we speak, but it doesn't really solve the issue
[23:39] <reisio> fommil: you're supposed to try locate first, heh
[23:40] <nutman> I have a problem with my samsung TV not recognising the VGA output of my laptop with ubuntu installed on. Before i installed ubuntu I had win xp on it and the tv detected it fine so I'm assuming it's a ubuntu setting I'm missing? anyone know anything about this?
[23:40] <failmaster> Sling, do you suspect that issue is related to network problems?
[23:40] <Sling> failmaster: only because I assume that not *everybody* downloading the ISO has this issue
[23:40] <Sling> otherwise I wouldn't be the only person complaining here, I bet
[23:40] <wilee-nilee> Sling, Try the torrent downloads. http://www.ubuntu.com/download/alternative-downloads
[23:41] <Sling> wilee-nilee: yes, torrent is running
[23:41] <Dr_Willis> you could even move one of the isos into the torrent download dir.. restart the torrent and it 'should' verify and correct the bad iso. ;)
[23:41] <ss_haze> nutman:  you still had xp, when it's 2013, it's nuts
[23:42] <fommil> two compiler questions: how can I get gcc4.8 in raring, and is there a nice wrapper for using dragon egg?
[23:42] <wilee-nilee> sometimes the iso needs renaming is all to link the torrent
[23:42] <failmaster> ss_haze, it's not btw due to software back-compat issues
[23:42] <ss_haze> nutman: I have two monitors, guess which has better resolution on ubuntu, than on win 7
[23:42] <Wytshadow> so when i try to install ubuntu it spits out the CD and freezes... wtf?
[23:43] <Sling> and yup the iso from torrent has the correct hash
[23:43] <nutman> its an old laptop I use just to stream tv from.
[23:43] <fommil> ouch, libgfortran.a is not compiled with -fPIC !!!
[23:43] <nutman> any idea on a fix ss_haze?
[23:43] <Sling> which makes me think that one of the main ubuntu repo's has a corruption issue
[23:43] <ss_haze> Wytshadow: it could be anything, from monsters to aliens, but you should check md5 hash.. or how it is called
[23:43] <cartusia> wow glipper sucks why is the history so small only 100? klipper allows up to 2000
[23:43] <Sling> apparently my network or system is not the culprit :)
[23:43] <cartusia> is there anyway I can increase it?
[23:44] <wilee-nilee> ss_haze, have you run sudo update-grub?
[23:44] <ss_haze> nutman: use other version of ubuntu, version of driver, or use windows
[23:44] <Wytshadow> lol fair nuff
[23:44] <Dr_Willis> cartusia:  look in its settings? or perhaps the code..  its a rather old app i recall
[23:44] <failmaster> Sling, not necessary, most probably it's a network related issue, but i'll try to check it myself later! :D
[23:45] <Sling> im going to give it a shot on a couple of other machines behind different networks
[23:45] <Sling> just to be sure
[23:45] <Sling> but because of the loadbalancing behind the download, hard to pinpoint on this end
[23:46] <failmaster> besides i'm sure there are ways of keeping an eye on it over some kind of autocheck routines
[23:46] <MoPac> ss_haze: Do you have a manual switch to detect monitors?
[23:46] <MoPac> Sorry, I mean nutman:
[23:46] <wilee-nilee> Wytshadow, You want to be careful on language use her acronyms are no better that the actual words and against channel policy. ;)
[23:46] <wilee-nilee> here
[23:47] <Wytshadow> word
[23:47] <plustax> I keep getting an error when I go to install teamviewer in order for someone to help me fix a myriad of other issues. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2066611/Screenshot%20from%202013-08-10%2019%3A44%3A18.png anyone tell me what the issue could be?
[23:47] <MoPac> nutman: Have you tried the "detect displays" option in the Ubuntu settings menu?
[23:47] <failmaster> i have a problem with switching passphrase luks auth on boot to key file based, extra details: http://askubuntu.com/questions/330660/what-is-the-correct-way-to-use-key-file-luks-authorization anyone?
[23:48] <wiehan> how can I delete ALL EMPTY directories in a specific path recursively through the terminal?
[23:48] <wilee-nilee> plustax, Technically not supported, however does not mean no one will help, I would find there forum if there is one.
[23:48] <nutman> MoPac, ubuntu detects the display. It's my TV that doesn't seem to recognise the laptop output and allow me to change to the 'PC' input
[23:49] <ss_haze> nutman: does Samsung runs Android besides it's smart display?
[23:49] <MoPac> nutman: Are you able to manually change it on the TV?
[23:49] <ss_haze> then why linux compability would be problem
[23:49] <nutman> there's a hack where if u press on pin 10 of the VGA lead with a metal object it 'shorts' it and allows you to change to the PC channel on the TV and then you can see the ubuntu output.
[23:49] <jrib> wiehan: easy, kludgy way: just call rmdir on every directory :)
[23:50] <wiehan> jrib, automatically for let's say a music or pictures dir with hundreds of empty folders
[23:50] <MoPac> nutman: Surely there's a "VGA in" input option on the normal non-hack menu?
[23:50] <nutman> its greyed out until u hack it
[23:50] <jrib> wiehan: I just gave you my suggestion
[23:51] <nutman> when i was on XP i detected the input and just allowed you to change to the PC input
[23:51] <nutman> it*
[23:51] <wilee-nilee> nutman, Instructing someone to do a short is way out of channel allowances.
[23:51] <nutman> im not instructing anyone
[23:51] <plustax> im having trouble downloading and installing packages
[23:51] <plustax> nothing is working
[23:51] <wilee-nilee> nutman, really what would you call t then, think about it.
[23:52] <MoPac> wilee-nilee: He is explaining what he already did to this point; he is not advising anyone to follow
[23:52] <Sling> 73d595b804149fca9547ed94db8ff44f  ubuntu-12.04.2-server-amd64.iso
[23:52] <wiehan> jrib, I don't understand your suggestion as it would entail hundreds of cd and rmdir commands in terminal
[23:52] <MoPac> wilee-nilee: He is the one with the question
[23:52] <nutman> i would call it explaining my situation and what ive tried so far
[23:52] <Sling> also wrong hash on a completely different machine behind a different network
[23:52] <Sling> something's dodgy :)
[23:52] <jrib> wiehan: use find.  For the proper way use -empty with find
[23:52] <nutman> wilee-nilee, read better
[23:52] <rreed> plustax, you're missing a package you need to install TeamViewer.
[23:52] <MoPac> wilee-nilee: His "you" was a generic "one" in English, as in, "it is greyed out until one hacks it"
[23:52] <plustax> rreed it seems i cant install anything
[23:53] <plustax> my dependencies etc are broken I think :(
[23:53] <wilee-nilee> nutman, Fine, still out of any responsible channel allowances read the COC.
[23:53] <plustax> I dont know what package I need
[23:53] <rreed> plustax, Try installing this the ia32-libs package.
[23:53] <plustax> how do i do that?
[23:53] <wiehan> jrib, I used find . -type d -empty -delete but it certainly didn't go through all the directories, it seemed to have only checked the folders directly under the parent dir
[23:54] <plustax> rreed think you can walk me through it?
[23:54] <rreed> plustax, Try "sudo apt-get install ia32-libs"
[23:54] <MoPac> nutman: Anyway, so you're sure that the signal is being sent out of the Ubuntu machine, right? (before the TV is told to switch the channel on)?
[23:54] <plustax> rreed, plustax@ubuntu:~$ sudo apt-get install ia32-libs
[23:54] <plustax> [sudo] password for plustax:
[23:54] <plustax> Reading package lists... Done
[23:54] <plustax> Building dependency tree
[23:54] <plustax> Reading state information... Done
[23:54] <plustax> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these:
[23:54] <FloodBot1> plustax: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:55] <jrib> wiehan: give an example of something that wasn't deleted that you expected to be
[23:55] <nutman> yep. if you move the mouse off the right of the screen its clearly going to the 2nd display
[23:55] <plustax> sorry for the flood
[23:55] <plustax> you get all that though?
[23:55] <wiehan> is this a "safe" command find . -empty -type d -exec rmdir {} + to delete only Empty dirs in a path?
[23:55] <Sling> wiehan: try it without the rmdir but a ls instad?
[23:55] <Sling> instead*
[23:56] <rreed> plustax, Try running the "sudo apt-get -f install"
[23:56] <wiehan> Sling, ty
[23:57] <plustax> rreed i ran that
[23:57] <failmaster> i have a problem with switching passphrase luks auth on boot to key file based, extra details: http://askubuntu.com/questions/330660/what-is-the-correct-way-to-use-key-file-luks-authorization anyone?
[23:57] <plustax> rreed should I now try to install the deb package again?"
[23:57] <MoPac> nutman: Are you using the generic Xorg driver or a proprietary one?
[23:58] <wilee-nilee> plustax, Pastebin all of running sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade   hit the n for no on the ask.
[23:58] <nutman> oo i have no idea. im a ubuntu noob. how do I check?
[23:59] <MoPac> nutman: go to your software sources
[23:59] <MoPac> nutman: "software and updates"


[12:51] <dgroos> Good Morning
[18:18] <Lns> Morning all!
[18:28] <alkisg> Good evening Lns
[18:28] <alkisg> Lns, I've been looking at this quide you wrote: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LockdownHomeDirs
[18:30] <Lns> hey alkisg
[18:30] <Lns> ok
[18:30] <alkisg> So you're putting teachers in the admin group?
[18:30] <alkisg> If they're in the admin group, so they can use sudo, can't they already access the files?
[18:32] <Lns> alkisg: where does it say teachers are in the admin group?
[18:32] <alkisg> (only teachers and/or system administrators/techs should be a member of  the "admin" group, as it is used for system administration purposes)
[18:32] <Lns> my setups have a 'teachers' group and a separate 'admin' group
[18:32] <alkisg> So, can teachers access user's files?
[18:33] <Lns> well
[18:33] <Lns> i guess i could elaborate since my setups are a bit more than just on that page now
[18:33] <Lns> you can choose for teachers to have access
[18:33] <Lns> See i wrote that before i got into ACLs
[18:34] <Lns> so i was just looking at group permissions
[18:34] <alkisg> Ah, you're using ACLs now?
[18:34] <Lns> yeah
[18:34] <Lns> they work pretty well for situations like that =)
[18:34] <Lns> i also genearally separate student homedirs from other teachers/admin staff
[18:34] <Lns> so i usually put students in /home/students
[18:34] <Lns> and then ACL that branch
[18:34] <alkisg> So you're using ACLs in some production school and you had no major complains? Maybe I should also look into those then :)
[18:35] <Lns> alkisg: oh man you haven't been using ACLs? they're awesome =)
[18:35] <Lns> no, no complaints, just praise
[18:35] <Lns> i made a video on acls on youtube
[18:35] <alkisg> Nah, in my own schools I never needed any permissions at all, but some fellow teachers are asking for them
[18:35] <Lns> gotcha
[18:35] <alkisg> Oooh link link?! :)
[18:35] <Lns> hahaha
[18:36] <Lns> should be linked in the ACL tutuorial on the ubuntu wiki at the top..
[18:36] <Lns> lemme find it
[18:36] <Lns> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ACLSupport
[18:36] <Lns> youtube vid is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6piQXXHTmqk
[18:37] <alkisg> Merci!
[18:38] <alkisg> Ah, it's easy to listen to your video. I heard stgraber over skype once and I had a hard time understanding what he was saying.
[18:39] <Lns> hehe
[18:39] <Lns> yeah i used xvidcap for that video
[18:39] <Lns> very nice software
[18:39] <alkisg> Have you tried gtkrecordmydesktop?
[18:40] <Lns> i don't recall, sounds familiar
[18:42] <Lns> hmm looks nice!
[18:43] <Lns> i think xvidcap is better suited for me though because i run VMs in a window and i can select the window only to record instead of the whole desktop
[18:43] <Lns> so that way i can show me logging out/in, rebooting, etc.
[18:45] <alkisg> Hmmm I think gtkrecordmydesktop also supports that, but I haven't tried xvidcap yet. I will now :)
[18:46] <alkisg> (btw adduser is proposed instead of useradd)
[19:02] <dissident> hi everyone
[19:02] <alkisg> Hello
[19:14] <Ahmuck> how do you put students into /home/students?
[19:14] <Ahmuck> aren't all users created under /home?
[19:16] <Ahmuck> so users' are still created under /home, but are controlled by acl
[19:16] <Lns> Ahmuck: you can modify /etc/adduser.conf to make it default, specify home dir during user creation, or manually move already created ones and update /etc/passwd
[19:17] <Ahmuck> ah, so you are creating a sepearte directory, /home/students
[19:17] <Ahmuck> are users students unable to view each other's directories
[19:26] <dissident> does anyone have any ideas why an ltsp-client would get stuck at the Edubuntu boot splash
[19:26] <dissident> seems stuck in a loop
[19:33] <Lns> Ahmuck: my own students can't go into each others' dirs, no
[19:33] <Lns> dissident: have you gone through the troubleshooting steps?
[19:33] <Lns> dissident: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
[19:34] <dissident> thanks for that Lns
[19:37] <dissident> plymouth
[19:55] <dissident> Lns: working now thanks
[19:56] <dissident> Lns: are you running LTSP? can you perhaps tell me a bit about your setup?
[19:57] <Lns> dissident: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_SuccessStories#Logical_Networking_Solutions_-_Northern_California.2C_USA
[19:57] <dissident> ta
[20:02] <dissident> Lns: are you more involved in the infrastructure side of things, or the software (or rather, usage thereof) side of things
[20:02] <dissident> um, the education side i guess
[20:03] <Lns> dissident: I'm basically a sysadmin, not a coder - I run my business by installing and maintaining Linux/LTSP networks in schools.
[20:03] <dissident> Lns: k
[20:09] <alkisg> dissident: did you see any error messages after removing quiet/splash?
[20:09] <dissident> alkisg: strangely enough
[20:10] <dissident> i got a message about plymouth being killed
[20:10] <dissident> um, i hit enter and it booted
[20:10] <dissident> oO
[20:10] <dissident> so i think the update to the image made the difference
[20:10] <dissident> even though i'd previously done it
[20:10] <alkisg> Heh, well if it works.. :)
[20:10] <dissident> it does now hehe ta
[20:12] <dissident> okay, question for main (highvoltage helped put me on the right track a week or so ago) - only thing, downloading a mirror would just ahve taken too long hehe.
[20:13] <dissident> our funder came and gave the green flag for our Education centre today. I need to get this server back to the farm (200km from here) by Thursday, its currently at my house on an ADSL connection. I want to put as much useful softwaare onto the server before i return it (no internet at all on the farm the Lab is located at)
[20:14] <dissident> Thursday I want to be able to demo whats possible. I know my way around the regular KDE based educational packages, as well as a few of the non-kde oriented ones.
[20:14] <dissident> the primary goal of this lab is to narrow the digital divide to people from an impoverished rural community. at least 30% of the users will be functionally illiterate.
[20:15] <dissident> i was hoping that you guys could share some of the tools you're using (and maybe how you're using them) at your labs?
[20:15] <alkisg> dissident: you can pass "--download-only" to apt-get to retrieve packages without installing them.
[20:15] <mhall119> wow, sounds like a really worthy endeavor
[20:16] <alkisg> So e.g. if you think tuxpaint will be needed, but you're not sure, you can download it and install it locally afterwards, without any internet connection
[20:17] <mhall119> you can use Keryx to create Apt-CDs for various packages
[20:18] <dissident> oo, ta
[20:18] <dissident> the project would be great, but people need to see what linux can offer
[20:19] <dissident> what i'm really keen on knowing is which software packages are most commonly being used by the LTSP projects
[20:19] <dissident> as a point of departure
[20:20] <Lns> dissident: why not just burn Edubuntu CDs with the software on them to install later if you need to?
[20:21] <dissident> Lns: do you mean the add on CDs as specified on the website?
[20:21] <dissident> Lns: or do you mean with the specific software intended for the install?
[20:22] <Lns> dissident: the CD/DVD images
[20:22] <Lns> those contain all of the software, and you can install via CD/DVD later in apt
[20:22] <dissident> i used the edubuntu dvd
[20:22] <dissident> 10.04
[20:22] <dissident> and did the standard installation (with LTSP installation afterward)
[20:22] <Lns> ok
[20:22] <dissident> via the script on the desktop
[20:25]  * dissident hits the LTSP wiki
[20:29] <dissident> maybe i should rephrase... in your LTSP deployments, which are your top 5 most used / most effective/ software packages?
[20:30] <dissident> we'll be doing OpenOffice courses
[20:30] <dissident> running an "offline" wikipedia as a basic encyclopedia
[20:32] <Lns> dissident: mainly our students use Firefox, Open Office, a typing tutor, games.. younger students use things like GCompris (very good for learning computers)
[20:33] <dissident> Lns: k, thanks. I see these are installed by default
[20:33] <dissident> the -edu* packages
[20:33] <Lns> right
[20:33] <dissident> i'm assuming
[20:35] <Ahmuck> Lns: where r u located?
[20:35] <Ahmuck> scribus is a good package for ubuntu
[20:35] <Lns> Ahmuck: northern california
[20:36] <Ahmuck> however, it may not work well on ltsp, because of the imges
[20:36] <Ahmuck> lns, interesting.  i'd think n cali would have went the ms way
[20:36] <Lns> Ahmuck: they usually do. It's a struggle to get open source in around here - but people are starting to catch on like wildfire
[20:37] <Lns> specially since our local economy is in the crapper =p
[20:38] <alkisg> Here the economy is even worse; I wonder thought why the only stores that have people in them are the cafeterias... :D
[20:40] <Lns> alkisg: that's right you're in greece?
[20:45] <Lns> California is pretty close behind you as far as economic turmoil
[20:46] <dissident> hehe
[20:46] <dissident> no, here the government commits to open source
[20:46] <dissident> but then the dept. of education offer a laptop subsidy to teachers (but only if they run windows)
[20:47] <dissident> oO
[20:47] <Lns> nothing like vendor lock-in via charity
[20:47] <dissident> yup
[20:47] <Ahmuck> that's because the subsidy is coming from ms
[20:47] <Ahmuck> it's the same here
[20:48] <Ahmuck> if you get your computers and software for free, then you start looking at compatibility, and training issues
[20:48] <Lns> if MS wants to really be a charitable source for technology, why not offer the choice of OS installation?
[20:48] <dissident> purely out of curiosity
[20:48] <dissident> what do you think of Google's new OS?
[20:48] <alkisg> Here they gave about 120.000 netbooks to students, and fortunately we manage to convince them to be dual boot (edubuntu/windows)
[20:48] <dissident> supposed to be being released soon
[20:48] <dissident> rather, their vision for their OS
[20:49] <Lns> dissident: i wouldn't touch it until it's been out for a while
[20:49] <Lns> alkisg: that is great
[20:49] <dissident> ms gave the netbooks?
[20:49] <alkisg> Nope
[20:49] <dissident> k
[20:49] <alkisg> Mostly a european fund, and also 25% local funds
[20:49] <dissident> k
[20:50] <mhall119> Lns: the reason MS wants to be charitable is because it benefits them
[20:50] <Lns> mhall119: i know..i guess it was more of a rhetorical question
[20:50] <mhall119> it's not just MS either, that's why any corporate gives to charity
[20:50] <mhall119> it improves their "corporate image"
[20:50]  * dissident should probably hit up BP for a donation sometime soon
[20:51] <Lns> lol
[20:51] <mhall119> but they won't undermine their products to boost their image
[20:51] <mhall119> dissident: they're currently donating millions of gallons of oil to my shoreline, aren't they wonderful?
[20:52] <Lns> hopefully BP will become a charity to renewable energy after this is over
[20:52] <dissident> they're the best :-P
[20:52] <dissident> ja, hopefully
[20:53] <dissident> read something recently
[20:53] <mhall119> Lns: I think BP has already been heavily investing in alternative fuels
[20:53] <Lns> mhall119: that's good! they're smart
[20:53] <dissident> should probably follow it up :-P
[20:53] <mhall119> Lns: they are
[20:53] <mhall119> they wouldn't be multi-billion dollar a year companies if they weren't
[20:53] <Lns> i know cheveron has been doing solar powered gas stations out here a lot
[20:54] <Lns> kinda paradoxical, but none the less a good gesture ;)
[20:54] <mhall119> not really, solar is good for large stationary objects like stores
[20:54] <mhall119> not so good for small, mobile objects like cars
[20:54] <Ahmuck> google's os is cloud tech
[20:54] <Ahmuck> vaporware i hope
[20:54] <Lns> mhall119: true
[20:55]  * Lns wonders if any electric cars employ wind turbines in their bumpers to re-power batteries
[20:55] <dissident> Ahmuck: thats what i don't like about it
[20:56] <Ahmuck> seriously, i don't want my personal info on the cloud
[20:56] <dissident> exactly
[20:56] <dissident> yet, you average user is going to be conned into doing just that
[20:56] <dissident> because its "better", "easier" etc
[20:56] <Lns> cloud computing has good use cases
[20:57] <Lns> it's just not going to replace desktops and traditional server/client networks
[20:57] <dissident> agreed
[20:57] <mhall119> Lns: only if you properly define what "cloud computing means"
[20:57] <Lns> its probably best for 'casual users' who don't work a lot on a computer
[20:57] <dissident> i think for organizations its great
[20:58] <Lns> cloud computing is usually defined as a service provider hosting everything.
[20:58] <Lns> there are private clouds, but...i mean, really.
[20:58] <mhall119> Lns: you need a definition that's different from a VPS in some way
[21:00] <dissident> anyone here using schooltool?
[21:04] <Ahmuck> outside of ltsp is there really a good server/client platform for edu?
[21:05] <alkisg> Ahmuck: you mean like skolelinux?
[21:10] <Lns> Ahmuck: DRBL
[21:11] <Lns> i hear people talk about zero-clients and 4-to-1 stations here and there
[21:12] <Lns> but LTSP, in my research anyway, has been the best of those choices
[21:14]  * alkisg tried to use DRBL and had to reinstall Ubuntu afterwards :-/
[21:14] <Ahmuck> has used drbl
[21:15] <Ahmuck> have also heard of 1 machine, 4 clients
[21:15] <Ahmuck> but i'm not sure i'd use ltsp either
[21:59] <dissident> thanks for you inputs guys
[21:59]  * dissident has his work cut out for him
[21:59] <dissident> hehe
[21:59] <dissident> night
[21:59] <alkisg> Ahmuck: have you tried the LTSP fat client support in Lucid?
[22:01] <alkisg> It's completely different, it doesn't transfer screens over the network...
[23:13] <dgroos> alkisg: how come I can't find the 'install-LTSP' script on my desktop after install of edubuntu?
[23:13] <dgroos> hmmmm...
[23:14]  * alkisg has not tried to install ltsp from the edubuntu dvd yet...
[23:15] <dgroos> Is there some way documented somewhere?
[23:23] <dgroos> Would someone list the steps/commands for me?  I'll try it out, recording the details as it goes along and write them up on the ubuntu wiki.


[00:55] <igc> morning
[03:30] <mwhudson> lifeless, spiv : how close is lp:~spiv/bzr-builder/refactor to landing?
[03:32] <spiv> mwhudson: hmm
[03:32] <mwhudson> also, what does it do?
[03:35] <lifeless> mwhudson: james_w needs to get back from UDS :)
[03:36] <mwhudson> lifeless: that makes sense i guess
[03:36] <spiv> mwhudson: that branch has some simple refactoring on top of lp:~lifeless/bzr-builder/bug-469874 that is used by lp:~spiv/bzr-builder/merge-subdirs-479705
[03:37] <mwhudson> sounds like a fun stack of not-landed branches
[03:37] <spiv> mwhudson: basically a replaces a list of 2-tuples where (*, None), (None, *) and (None, None) all mean different things, and replaces them with objects
[03:38] <spiv> mwhudson: and replaces case statements about that with good ol' polymorphism
[03:38] <lifeless> mwhudson: why do you ask?
[03:38] <mwhudson> lifeless: just poking at bzr-builder
[03:39] <spiv> The names I gave to the objects and methods can be improved, but the shape is certainly much nicer (and made merge-subdirs-479705 fairly straightforward).
[03:40] <spiv> Hmm, I guess I should make some merge proposals for those, not sure why I hadn't done that yet.
[03:42] <lifeless> spiv: you get to use the new dependent branches feature ;)
[03:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> does bzr have something like gits add --interactive? (allows commiting chunks of your current diff)
[03:45] <spiv> lifeless: indeed :)
[03:46] <spiv> Merge requests filed.  That should keep james_w busy for a while :)
[03:46] <spiv> Kamping_Kaiser: "bzr shelve", you can shelve the parts you don't want to commit yet, then bzr commit, then bzr unshelve.
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> spiv: thanks, I'll have a go
[03:58] <poolie> igc: still around?
[03:58] <poolie> hi spiv, mwh
[03:58] <mwhudson> poolie: hello
[03:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> spiv: that works a treat, thanks.
[04:14] <lifeless> spiv: so you proposed the branch to my branch, not to trunk?
[04:14] <lifeless> spiv: oh nevermind, LP confused me
[04:19] <poolie> !!!
[04:19] <poolie> :-)
[04:26] <lifeless> yeah, news @ 11
[04:40] <bob2> lol
[04:44]  * GaryvdM is back (gone 07:00:57)
[08:14] <RenatoSilva> is there a way to bzr diff all non .xyz files?
[08:17] <bob2> you can use filterdiff (not part of bzr)
[08:19] <RenatoSilva> ok thanks anyway
[09:30] <tumbleweed> so, I've got a bot that's polling bzr branches on lp, and I'm getting RevisionNotPresent exceptions sometimes http://paste.pocoo.org/show/nHK9f5k22Vt40innuE6i/
[09:30] <tumbleweed> code in question: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Estefanor/ibid/icecast/annotate/head%3A/ibid/plugins/bzr.py
[09:31] <tumbleweed> should I just ignore the exception and try again in a bit?
[09:43] <lifeless> tumbleweed: yes, I guess.
[09:48] <MvG> Hi! Trying to push a branch to lp failed at fist try ("different serializers") but succeeded at second try: http://pastebin.com/m27e603bb
[09:48] <MvG> Is this a bzr issue or a launchpad issue?
[09:59] <Peng> That's clever! The failure on the first push leaves enough around that the second push doesn't try to auto-stack. I'll have to remember that!
[10:00] <Peng> MvG: *Probably* a bzr bug, but I'm not going to set something equivalent up off-LP to verify it.
[10:01] <Peng> Note to self: File a bug about stacking being broken on staging...
[10:02] <MvG> So basically it is known current behaviour that auto-stacking doesn't work (due to some difference in repo formats?), and the fact that it worked the second time is more like a bug? Should I file anything?
[10:02] <Peng> MvG: What format is your local branch? If it's 2a, than yes, it's known behaviour that stacking fails.
[10:03] <Peng> MvG: Err, I mean, *not* 2a.
[10:03] <MvG> Format is 2a, according to "bzr info ..", where .. is the shared repository.
[10:04] <Peng> MvG: Oh, my mistake. You're using 2a, but lp:~trac-bzr-team/trac-bzr/trunk is on an older format.
[10:04] <Peng> MvG: What happened is that the first push created some of the control directories before it realized the format difference and exited. On the second push, since they existed, it didn't try to stack, so you didn't run into the format issue.
[10:05] <MvG> I understand.
[10:05] <Peng> MvG: Umm, I think it's worth filing, although I'm not sure it's worth fixing. :P
[10:06] <MvG> OK. will do so.
[10:10] <MvG> Peng: How do you tell lp:~trac-bzr-team/trac-bzr/trunk is older format? bzr info doesn't seem to help me there.
[10:18] <Peng> MvG: The error message said it was a KnitPackRepository. 2a is CHKInventoryRepository.
[10:18] <MvG> Ah, I see.
[10:20] <Peng> MvG: FYI, in bzr.dev, "bzr info -v" gives useful format information for branches accessed over the smart server.
[10:20] <Peng> MvG: In older versions, you can prepend "nosmart+" to the URL to force VFS access, e.g.: bzr info nosmart+lp:~trac-bzr-team/trac-bzr/trunk
[10:20] <Peng> MvG: (I mean, you can do it in bzr.dev too, you just don't need to...)
[10:21] <MvG> All of these give me info about the branch, but not about the repository format...
[10:22] <Peng> MvG: It included all of it.
[10:23] <MvG> In the Format section it says "repository: bzr remote repository"
[10:23] <MvG> Ah, works now...
[10:23] <MvG> Had been using an older bzr setup here without realizing it...
[10:24] <MvG> filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/484685
[10:32] <Glenjamin> hi guys, after running the bzr check command, i'm told there are ghost revisions and inconsistent parents
[10:33] <Glenjamin> is there a way to resolve these somehow?
[10:33] <Glenjamin> did those messages get blocked by the network for not being registered?
[10:34] <bob2> no
[10:34] <Glenjamin> ah good, the freenode error message isn't all that clear :)
[10:34] <bob2> 'bzr reconcile' should fix the inconsistent parents, I think (backup your branch/repository first)
[10:36] <Glenjamin> right, is there anything i can do about ghost-revisions? (and what are they?)
[10:44] <Peng> Glenjamin: Ghosts are revisions that your repo doesn't actually have a copy of.
[10:45] <Glenjamin> i was having issues with bzr-svn in a 2a repository
[10:45] <gioele> Glenjamin: what kind of branch is that? A git or svn import?
[10:45] <Glenjamin> i started again with 1.14-rich-root and it seems fine now
[10:45] <Glenjamin> i did checkout(from svn) branch(locally) push(to svn), and it have an error about parent revisions
[10:46] <gioele> Glenjamin: is it happening every time?
[10:46] <Glenjamin> it was with the 2a format, yes
[10:56] <Glenjamin> cheers for the help guys :)
[11:13] <bialix> hi, any core devs here?
[11:15] <spiv> I half am
[11:16] <bialix> ho! spiv!
[11:16] <bialix> hello spiv
[11:16] <bialix> I have 2 problems
[11:16] <spiv> Good evening :)
[11:16] <bialix> for you evening, for me afternoon :-)
[11:17] <bialix> 1) We have a problem with reconfigure of light checkout of bzr:// branch
[11:17] <bialix> spiv: I've fwd'd mail from qbzr ML about this problem
[11:17] <bialix> spiv: if you have any ideas how to debug this problem I'll be very appresiated
[11:17] <bialix> spiv: if you have any ideas how to debug this problem I'll be very appreciated
[11:18] <bialix> 2) it seems 2a (or rich-roots) broke merge -r0..-1 when files have the same file-id
[11:19] <spiv> 1) Interesting!  That seems quite weird.
[11:21] <spiv> As for 2), I would have expected that would get conflicts with or without 2a, or does it fail worse than merely conflicting?
[11:22] <bialix> spiv: 2) doesnot happens with pack-0.92 aka poor-rootsz
[11:23]  * bialix pastebins
[11:23] <bialix> spiv: see Makefile: http://pastebin.com/m1324b1ae
[11:24] <bialix> spiv: with 2a format I've got path conflict
[11:24] <bialix> with pack-0.92 I've got good merge
[11:26] <bialix> and with rich-root-pack too
[11:26] <bialix> rich-rot-pack -> conflict
[11:28] <bialix> bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/484706
[11:29] <spiv> Yeah, I think it's a rich-root thing.  I think a conflict is reasonable in that case, I'm not sure why non-rich-root wouldn't conflict (in fact I'm tempted to think that's the bug, not the rich-root case).
[11:31] <spiv> I don't see a good reason for it to be inconsistent, so there's certainly some sort of bug there.
[11:33] <bialix> spiv: I think non-rich-root behavior is *right* actually
[11:33] <bialix> there is good reason to split big branch into 2 and then merge between them
[11:34] <bialix> spiv: if you have any ideas about 1) I'd like to get some hints
[11:34] <spiv> Well, I cna see an argument for allowing it, for the same reason we treat a merge that applies the exact same change as being clean.
[11:34] <spiv> I don't have a strong opinion either way, but my initial expectation was that it should conflict.
[11:35] <bialix> spiv: all this file-ids thingy is good only for 1 reason -- to track renames. But there is a lot of other reasons when file-ids only bad thing
[11:35] <bialix> parallel imports et al
[11:35] <spiv> And if the content isn't identical it certainly should.
[11:37] <bialix> should -> what?
[11:37] <spiv> Should conflict.
[11:37] <bialix> if content is not identical it produce text conflict (for pack-0.92 format) and this is very good
[11:38] <bialix> but path conflict is not good
[11:41] <spiv> For 1), I think I see the bug in remote.py
[11:42] <spiv> It doesn't look like RemoteRepositoryFormat.initialize copes properly with a non-RemoteBzrDir argument, even though there's some code to try handle that case.
[11:44] <spiv> It's getting late here, but I'll send an email summarising what I see.
[11:47] <bialix> ok, thanks
[11:58] <RenatoSilva> is there any work/registered idea anywhere about "semantic/smart" diffs?
[11:58] <RenatoSilva> for example, diff ignoring white spaces
[11:58] <RenatoSilva> another example, CSS diff
[11:58] <bob2> already possible
[11:58] <bob2> bzr diff --using=whatever
[11:59] <bob2> '--using=diff --diff-options=-w' will ignore whitespace
[12:00] <RenatoSilva> great :) but that's just an example
[12:01] <bob2> sure
[12:01] <bob2> if a semantic css diff program exists, bzr can use it
[12:01] <RenatoSilva> I have had trouble with comparing css, and I thought it would help me if the diff algorith was "smart"
[12:02] <RenatoSilva> bob2: ok I'm being sort of offtopic because I don't know a right channel to ask, as the subject is cross-channel
[12:02]  * RenatoSilva trying to remember a use case for a "semantic" css diff
[12:02] <RenatoSilva> * recall
[12:04] <RenatoSilva> hum, ordering, for example p {\n color: #333;\n margin: 0px; \n} should be considered the same as p {\n margin: 0;\n color: #333;\n}
[12:04] <spiv> bialix: sent
[12:06] <spiv> RenatoSilva: sure, but bob2's answer still seems applicable
[12:06] <RenatoSilva> this becomes annoying when you have a lot of stuff like this and among these lines only 1 or 2 that really matter
[12:06] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ok sorry, will stop now :)
[12:07] <spiv> RenatoSilva: that is, bzr can already cope with that, you just need to tell it to use a diff program that knows how to do the diff you want.
[12:07] <spiv> And if that diff utility doesn't exist yet that isn't exactly a bzr issue :)
[12:08] <spiv> (Although if there's some way in which bzr might help, then that would be worth discussing, but from what I see so far probably not)
[12:08] <spiv> Anyway, bedtime for me.
[12:08] <RenatoSilva> spiv: ok, actually I want those programs, which I'm afraid to exist
[12:11] <RenatoSilva> I'm afraid to not exist
[12:13] <bialix> spiv: many thanks
[14:42] <jam> morning all
[14:45] <bialix> hello jam
[15:09]  * bialix akways enjoys reading jam's articles
[15:09]  * beuno remembers jam's "this week in bazaar"
[15:10] <jam> beuno: blame statik, he left me and TWiB fell apart
[15:12]  * beuno looks at statik with disapointment
[15:14] <bialix> beuno: ya, this week journal was very cool
[15:21] <henninge> Hi! I am using bzr-pipline for the first time.
[15:22] <jam> wadesworld: ping if you get some time to help debug the sftp stuff
[15:22] <henninge> I had made some changes in the last pipe and then switched to another pipe w/o committing the changes.
[15:23] <henninge> Now show-pipeline displays the "U" next to this pipe.
[15:24] <henninge> I returned to that pipe (so show-pipeline show "*U") but I don't see the uncommitted changes, at least not with "status" or "diff". Do I need to restore them somehow?
[15:26] <gioele> henninge: try "bzr shelve --list", maybe the uncommited changes have been shelved
[15:27] <henninge> gioele: "No shelved changes"
[15:27] <henninge> gioele: rockstar also explained to me last week that pipelining is different from shelving.
[15:28] <rockstar> henninge, bzr unshelve
[15:28] <rockstar> henninge, when you change to another pipe, bzr automatically shelves the changes for you.
[15:29] <henninge> rockstar: but does not automatically unshelve when I return?
[15:29] <jam> henninge: I believe that is true
[15:29] <gioele> rockstar: but "bzr shelve --list" says that there is nothing to unshelve
[15:29]  * henninge hasn't used shelve/unshelve before either
[15:29] <jam> switch-pipe shelves but does not unshelve
[15:29] <rockstar> henninge, so shelving is part of pipelines, but last week, the discussion was about shelving doing the same as pipelines, which is untrue.
[15:29] <jam> partially because "bzr merge --uncommitted ..." is able to pull stuff out of the shelf
[15:29] <henninge> ah
[15:30] <rockstar> henninge, I use shelves when I have some changes I'd like to keep instead of revert, but I need to commit something else before I commit those changes.
[15:31] <rockstar> It's kind of like limbo for changes.  Not heaven or hell.
[15:31] <henninge> rockstar: bzr unshelve also says, there is nothing on the shelve.
[15:31] <henninge> rockstar: ;)
[15:31] <rockstar> henninge, when you do bzr pipes, what does it say?
[15:31] <rockstar> Er, bzr show-pipeline
[15:31]  * rockstar always forgets that he has aliases
[15:32] <henninge> pipes works, too ...
[15:32] <henninge> rockstar: "*U pipename"
[15:32] <rockstar> henninge, and bzr status
[15:32] <henninge> rockstar: nuttin'
[15:33] <rockstar> abentley, ^^
[15:33] <henninge> rockstar: I have to say that I added and deleted a pipe and had a conflict which I resolved
[15:33] <rockstar> henninge, that shouldn't affect your changes that should have been shelved.
[15:33] <rockstar> henninge, I must consult the pipeline gods.
[15:34] <abentley> jam: switch-pipe also unshelves.
[15:34] <henninge> I also tried "merge --uncommitted" (because I read that in the help somewhere) and it failed
[15:34] <rockstar> abentley, I thought it did.
[15:34] <jam> abentley: would make sense to be symmetric
[15:34] <jam> what if you have multiple shelved patches?
[15:34] <jam> just the last one?
[15:34] <abentley> jam: There's only one.
[15:34] <rockstar> abentley, it sounds like something's wrong with how changes got shelved.
[15:35] <jam> abentley: so 'bzr shelve' doesn't interact with the actual 'shelf' that is being used?
[15:35] <henninge> here is the failure: http://paste.ubuntu.com/321609/
[15:35] <abentley> jam: Indeed.
[15:35] <henninge> oh, that is mostly explanatory text
[15:35] <abentley> jam: The shelved changes are stored in the branch, not the working tree.
[15:36] <rockstar> Ah, that's clever.
[15:36] <rockstar> So bzr unshelve shouldn't actually unshelve the changes.
[15:36] <henninge> here is the crash file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/321612/
[15:36] <abentley> rockstar: Right, and I also try to avoid referring to it as shelving.
[15:36] <rockstar> henninge, try switching away from the pipe and switching back.
[15:37] <rockstar> abentley, yes, I can see why now.
[15:37] <abentley> henninge: doing "switch-pipe" to return to the pipe with the stored changes should restore them.
[15:38] <abentley> henninge: The crash you're getting is because you didn't specify a pipe to merge from.
[15:38] <henninge> rockstar: yup, that helped
[15:38] <rockstar> henninge, so it's working now?
[15:39] <henninge> rockstar: yes, bzr status show my changed files again
[15:39] <henninge> show
[15:39] <henninge> s
[15:39] <rockstar> henninge, great
[15:39]  * rockstar scurries off to find a quiet hacking place
[15:39] <henninge> rockstar: thanks
[15:39] <henninge> rockstar: go to your room!
[15:39] <henninge> ;-)
[15:40] <henninge> abentley: thanks, too.
[15:42] <abentley> henninge: I have filed bug #484846 about the merge issue.
[15:45] <abentley> rockstar: btw, "pipes" is an automatic alias for show-pipeline now.
[15:45] <rockstar> abentley, hooray!
[15:45] <abentley> henninge: Is it possible that when you originally returned to the pipe, you used "switch", not "switch-pipe"?
[15:46] <rockstar> abentley, actually, I found out last week that basically everyone at the lazr-js sprint using pipes were using my aliases.  I thought about submitting a patch to make those aliases official.
[15:47] <abentley> rockstar: Well, I'm not sure about all of them, but just submit your aliases and I'll look them over.
[15:47] <henninge> abentley: "history | grep switch" only return switch-pipe ...
[15:47] <henninge> rockstar: pdiff and pstatus? Very useful.
[15:48] <rockstar> abentley, cool.  Well, now that I see the aliases I use, they shouldn't all go up, but EVERYONE was using next and prev.
[15:48] <rockstar> ...as well as pipes, which is now upstream anyway.
[15:49] <henninge> rockstar: where do I find "your" aliases?
[15:49] <abentley> henninge: Okay, I'll look into why it didn't restore the changes.
[15:50] <abentley> rockstar: I don't get "next" and "prev".  I use switch-pipe :last at least as often as switch-pipe :next.  So I've aliased "switch-pipe" to "swp".
[15:50] <rockstar> henninge, http://theironlion.net/blog/2009/08/26/5-must-have-aliases-bzr-pipeline/
[15:50] <rockstar> I have a few more now, but they aren't anything special.
[15:50] <rockstar> And send-pipe is silly to have now anyway, since Launchpad ignores the bundle you send through email now.
[15:51] <rockstar> abentley, maybe there should be a bzr last then as well.
[15:51] <abentley> rockstar: Anyhow, "next" and "prev" can't be automatic aliases.  Only command name abbreviations can be automatic.  But they could go in "help pipelines".
[15:51] <rockstar> abentley, ah, yeah.  You're right.
[15:52] <rockstar> abentley, okay, so it's more a doc patch now.  I can live with that.
[15:52] <abentley> rockstar: It doesn't ignore the bundle.  It just has a tendency to fail to apply it correctly.
[15:53] <abentley> rockstar: i.e. to give an incomprehensible oops.
[15:53] <rockstar> abentley, well, as far as the UI is concerned, it ignores it, because the preview diff is what's displayed.
[15:53] <rockstar> abentley, it's a moot point with pre-req branches though.
[15:54] <abentley> rockstar: The diff was never part of the bundle, it's part of the merge directive.
[15:54]  * rockstar facepalms
[15:54] <rockstar> That's what I meant.  I blame UDS and lack of sleep.
[15:55] <abentley> rockstar: actually, I tell a lie.  In bundle format 0.9 and earlier (bzr 0.18 and earlier), the diff *was* part of the bundle.
[15:57] <abentley> rockstar: Anyhow, there's a new lp-submit in the very latest pipelines that uses the LP API to create merge proposals.
[15:57] <abentley> rockstar: You get prerequisite branches automatically.
[15:57] <rockstar> abentley, wonderful.
[15:57] <rockstar> abentley, and the diff is generated correctly?
[15:58] <abentley> rockstar: Yes.
[15:58] <rockstar> Niice!</borat>
[16:07] <Peng> Is there a 2a copy of MySQL somewhere for those too impatient to spend 2 days converting it? :D
[16:07] <henninge> abentley: I have another crash for you ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/321629/
[16:07] <Peng> (I don't really care what branch; I just want it for testing.)
[16:08] <brmassa> guys, show can i create a patch between 2 revisions?
[16:08] <Peng> brmassa: What for?
[16:08] <abentley> henninge: Your bzr C extensions are not up to date with your bzr.
[16:09] <henninge> abentley: how do you see that and how do I fix that?
[16:10] <abentley> henninge: You're running bzr from a package, right?  If so, only the packager can fix it.
[16:10] <henninge> abentley: from the nightly ppa.
[16:11] <brmassa> Peng: well... i created a branch for each x.x.x, 1.x.x and 1.1.x version of my app. now i submited some some to the minor branch (1.1.x), i want to generate a patch to apply into higher levels/versions
[16:11] <abentley> henninge: I know that it's a C extension problem only because I've experienced it myself, and since I run from source, I did "make" and it fixed it.
[16:11] <henninge> Woa! bazaar-vcs got a new look!
[16:11] <Peng> brmassa: You should have done it the other way around so you could "bzr merge".
[16:12] <Peng> brmassa: Make the change to the oldest branch, then "bzr merge" it into the newer branches.
[16:12] <abentley> jam: henninge's running from the nightly PPA, but his StaticTuple is incompatible with his bzr.  Who takes care of that packaging?
[16:13] <jam> Peng: I don't believe there is. I think they've talked about upgrading, and I believe 'drizzle' has switched to 2a, but I'm not sure if drizzle is the full mysql history, etc.
[16:13] <abentley> henninge: Perhaps you can switch to the bzr beta PPA temporarily?
[16:13] <jam> abentley: the daily just needs to be rebuilt, there was a fix for that which has been around since 2.1.0b3
[16:13] <jam> I thought james_w was doing dailies
[16:14] <jam> afaik, none of the 2.1 series was built into bzr-beta-ppa
[16:14] <jam> johnf didn't have enough tuits
[16:14] <Peng> jam: Thanks.
[16:14] <abentley> jam: I suspect james_w will be busy this week...
[16:14] <henninge> abentley: that is not 2.1 yet, I tried that first. bzr-pipeline only works with 2.1, so it told me ...
[16:14] <Peng> jam: MySQL's history is about 2000 revisions longer than Drizzle's, so I guess it doesn't. Darn.
[16:14] <henninge> abentley: I am running bzr-pipeline from source
[16:15] <brmassa> Peng: well... at one point all 3 branches were the same, but since 1.1.x is focused on bug fixing only and the other 2 includes new features, the codes might diverge...
[16:15] <henninge> maybe I should just run bzr from source, too
[16:15] <abentley> henninge: lp:bzr-pipeline/stable works just fine with 2.0
[16:15] <jam> Peng: well, you really need to compare via "bzr ancestry" and not "bzr revno"
[16:15] <jam> but yeah, they might have started with a fresh codebase
[16:15] <henninge> abentley: ah, I could change that
[16:15]  * Peng didn't know about "bzr ancestry".
[16:15] <Peng> jam: Ehh, true.
[16:16] <Peng> brmassa: OK, um, commit your changes to the bugfix branch, then "bzr merge" that branch into your newer branches.
[16:16] <jam> brmassa: you can alwyays do "bzr diff -c REVNO" or "bzr merge -c REVNO", or .. create a daggy fix as Peng mentions
[16:17] <brmassa> thanks guys... its just matter of getting used to the commands and concepts.
[16:17] <Peng> "bzr merge -c" does a cherrypick?
[16:20] <CoffeeIV> how can I tell what will change from a bzr up command before actually doing it ?  bzr up doesn't seem to take the --dry-run option
[16:22] <brmassa> Peng: its working. now, is there a way to use the same commit messages used in the original branch while commiting the merge?
[16:25] <brmassa> of course without manually writting it...
[16:28] <Peng> brmassa: You can copy and paste... :D
[16:28] <brmassa> Peng: yep. i was wondering about a parameter to to this automatically
[16:47] <skx> what do I need to install to get bazaar explorer? I'm on ubuntu
[16:48] <skx> got it
[16:48] <skx> wow, you really managed to hide that info ;)
[16:50] <LarstiQ> we did?
[19:29] <Peng> Augh! "bzr pull" on MySQL died after almost 2 hours and 200-300 MB of bandwidth, losing all of hte progress it had made! :(
[19:38] <mrooney> hey, I ran into an initially confusing situation, I just wanted to see if it was a bug or expected behavior
[19:38] <mrooney> if I have a directory under VC foo, and I do bzr mv foo bar/baz when bar doesn't exist, I get the error "bar is not versioned"
[19:39] <mrooney> so I spent a while trying to figure out what that means, because it was obvious to me it wasn't versioned since it doesn't exist
[19:39] <LarstiQ> mrooney: while correct, I agree
[19:39] <LarstiQ> "bar doesn't exist" would be more helpful
[19:40] <mrooney> yes it would have been much more helpful
[19:40] <LarstiQ> mrooney: mind filing a request for that?
[19:40] <mrooney> sure
[19:40] <LarstiQ> thanks
[19:40] <mrooney> it would be great if there was an option to create the directories if needed
[19:42] <mrooney> I keep hitting it over and over when restructing projects, "oh this file needs to be in a directory"
[19:43] <LarstiQ> what kind of restructuring is that?
[19:44] <LarstiQ> in my use I usually need a directory when I have multiple files already
[19:45] <mrooney> what is your fear of automatically creating directories? people typoing a mv when they expect the dir to exist, and silently getting a new one?
[19:45] <LarstiQ> I haven't thought it through
[19:45] <LarstiQ> but my fear is overloading mv even more than it already is
[19:45] <mrooney> any sort of cleaning up a project, where I accumulate too many files in a directory and want to mv them to new directories
[19:46] <LarstiQ> mrooney: do you move more than one file at once to a directory that doesn't exist?
[19:46] <mrooney> it isn't obviously that painful to bzr mkdir first, it is just a thing I have to keep in my head
[19:46] <LarstiQ> right
[19:46] <mrooney> no just one in these cases
[19:46] <LarstiQ> mrooney: it's an alien proces to me :)
[19:47] <LarstiQ> mrooney: how would the ui look?
[19:47] <mrooney> the ui?
[19:49] <LarstiQ> mrooney: of mv making dirs that don't exist
[19:50]  * LarstiQ checks mkdir -p behaviour
[19:50] <LarstiQ> mrooney: so one question that arises
[19:51] <LarstiQ> mrooney: `bzr mv file non/existing/path`
[19:51] <LarstiQ> mrooney: would that be non/existing/path/file or non/existing/path ?
[19:51] <LarstiQ> hi LenzGr
[19:52] <LenzGr> Hi!
[19:52] <mrooney> LarstiQ: haha yes, that is ambiguous, I assume it becomes non/existing/path unless you did bzr mvfile non/existing/path/
[19:52] <mrooney> I'd follow 'mv' there
[19:53] <mrooney> though mv doesn't have a -p option like mkdir does
[19:55] <LarstiQ> mrooney: right
[19:55] <mrooney> LarstiQ: I got bug 484985 for you :)
[19:55] <LarstiQ> mrooney: thank you :)
[19:56] <mrooney> that would definitely at least make it obvious to the user what they need to do
[21:41] <ibrandt> Greetings All.  I'm having an issue with bzr join.  I started a repo in /etc/httpd some time back.  Now I'd like to version /etc as a whole.  I ran bzr init in /etc, and added and committed everything but /etc/httpd.  Now I'm trying to join /etc/httpd by running bzr join httpd from the /etc directory.  I get "bzr: ERROR: An inconsistent delta was supplied involving u'httpd', 'tree_root-20091113022148-a0u1zuvcke3o9vtb-1' reason: Path alread
[21:41] <ibrandt> versioned".  Am I misunderstanding how join is supposed to be used?  Bzr 2.0.1 and repo formats are both 2a.
[21:42] <gioele> ibrandt: add https to .bzrignore
[21:42] <gioele> s/https/httpd
[21:46] <ibrandt> Thanks for the help.  I just ran bzr ignore and got, "Warning: the following files are version controlled and match your ignore pattern: httpd These files will continue to be version controlled unless you 'bzr remove' them.", so apparently my statement that I added everything but httpd was incorrect.
[21:47] <ibrandt> Looks like I need a "bzr forget"
[21:48] <gioele> ah, no, wait. I don't think you can't you can do what you think
[21:49] <ibrandt> Ah, "bzr remove --keep httpd"?
[21:49] <gioele> "bzr join" can only join branched created with bzr split
[21:49] <ibrandt> Oh, I see.
[21:50] <ibrandt> Any way to push the root of httpd up one dir, keeping history?
[21:50] <gioele> from the help of join «Such trees can be produced by "bzr split", but also by running "bzr branch" with the target inside a tree.»
[21:50] <gioele> ibrandt: I don't know
[21:51] <ibrandt> I saw that.  Okay, thanks, I'll keep poking at it.
[21:51] <gioele> I already asked for a new join (and a new split) that could do what you want but that proposal did not find the support of the core devs.
[21:51] <gioele> while you are at it, could you expose your case to the mailing list?
[21:52] <ibrandt> Sure, do you have a thread link or a Launchpad bug I could comment on?
[21:55] <ibrandt> I got my ignores in order, and remove --keep'd httpd, and you're right, still no luck with join.
[21:58] <gioele> ibrandt: I will try to find the link to a gmane thread later
[21:58] <ibrandt> It's strange because how is bzr branch into an unversioned subdir of a parent tree all that different from bzr init on the same?
[21:58] <gioele> now I'd like to understand why it does not work
[21:58] <gioele> ibrandt: what about /etc/httpd/.bzr*?
[21:59] <gioele> do you have just .bzr or also a .bzr.retired directory?
[21:59] <ibrandt> just /etc/httpd/.bzr
[21:59] <ibrandt> My thought was the join was all about merging the history for that into /etc/.bzr
[21:59] <gioele> ibrandt: I see the problem
[22:00] <gioele> ibrandt: join is not the culprit
[22:01] <gioele> ibrandt: when you first added the files in /etc (including /etc/httpd) some paths have been stored in /etc/.bzr. Now that you are trying to join it, bzr sees conflicts between the recorded paths and the new paths
[22:01] <ibrandt> makes sense
[22:01] <gioele> ibrandt: can you start with a brand new /etc branch?
[22:02] <ibrandt> I can, just getting started, so no history there yet.
[22:02] <gioele> ibrandt: so just remove /etc/.bzr
[22:02] <gioele> and do a bzr check in /etc/httpd, just to be sure
[22:04] <gioele> abentley: I am using git to contribute to a project. Now I really appreciate bzr-pipeline behavior of shelving local uncommited changes when switching pipe
[22:05] <abentley> gioele: Cool.  I certainly find it handy.  There might be a way to automate it in git.  Don't think they have a concept like shelving, but you could do temporary commits, I expect.
[22:07] <gioele> abentley: "pipe" switching is basic part of git. Shelving is called stashing. and it must be done manually when switching branch
[22:07] <gioele> obviously the command to switch branch is called "checkout"...
[22:10] <Peng> \o/ I have a ~375 MB "upload" file that hasn't been touched for 1.5 hours. What are the chances this pull crashes and burns?
[22:11] <abentley> gioele: Ah, I'll remember that it's called "stashing".
[22:11] <abentley> gioele: The git stuff with colocated branches is similar to the pipeline thing, but pipes are ordered, while git uses "stacked git" to do an ordered series of patches.
[22:13] <gioele> abentley: I know. Luckily in this case I am working on parallel branches, not stacked branches so I didn't try stgit (or any of its relatives).
[22:14] <mwhudson> Peng: what project is that for?
[22:16] <gioele> I wonder whether the future branch colocation feature of bzr will suffer of the same problem (no auto shelving): http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/developers/colocated-branches.html
[22:17] <ibrandt> gioele: Huh, same problem.  bzr check in httpd reported no errors.  I rm'd /etc/.bzr and .bzrignore.  In /etc did bzr init, bzr ignore ./httpd, bzr add *, bzr commit (which I verified didn't include httpd this time).  But then bzr join gives the same error.
[22:17] <dahoste> wow -- that's how awesome #bzr is.  I came in here prepared to ask a question, and I solved it without even asking.   woot!
[22:19] <dahoste> Shine on, you crazy diamonds!
[22:19] <jelmer> :-)
[22:20] <gioele> ibrandt: did you use exactly "bzr add *"?
[22:20] <gioele> ibrandt: well, I can replicate your problem
[22:21] <ibrandt> I did, assuming httpd would be ignored
[22:21] <ibrandt> I'm trying join now prior to adding anything
[22:22] <gioele> ibrandt: the * got expanded by the shell and bzr sees that you are _explicitly_ adding an ignored file so it lets you add it :)
[22:22] <gioele> ibrandt: if you used bzr add . it would be ignored correctly
[22:22] <ibrandt> Ah, makes sense
[22:24] <Peng> mwhudson: Trying to "bzr pull" nearly all of lp:mysql.
[22:24] <mwhudson> Peng: ah
[22:24] <Peng> mwhudson: And yes, I am doing an on-the-fly conversion. :D
[22:24] <mwhudson> Peng: oh
[22:24] <mwhudson> Peng: how long has this been going for?
[22:24] <Peng> Oh, I suppose this is the incredibly-long "convert everything" step.
[22:24] <jam> Peng: I really wouldn't do it on-the-fly
[22:24] <Peng> I had assumed the downloading was stuck.
[22:25] <jam> 48hrs is a bad thing to have fail
[22:25] <Peng> jam: Luckily I don't care that much! :D
[22:25] <jam> ISTR that bzr branch foo; cd foo; bzr upgrade
[22:25] <jam> will probably be faster
[22:32] <lifeless> poolie: adsl will benefit from http://staff.psc.edu/mathis/MTU/index.html#pmtud
[22:32] <lifeless> jam: it shouldn't be any faster
[22:32] <lifeless> jam: we stream deltas over the network, with common code
[22:32] <jam> lifeless: the converter is different
[22:32] <jam> the tests I had done with spiv
[22:32] <lifeless> jam: spiv put a lot of time into unifying them
[22:33] <jam> showed that while his new streaming code was a lot faster when streaming
[22:33] <Peng> Oh aye?
[22:33] <jam> it was still much slower thna converting locally
[22:33] <lifeless> jam: even the final version?
[22:33] <jam> lifeless: ISTR there was a problem with still extracting too many full texts and comparing them over-the-wire
[22:33] <jam> yeah, I believe so
[22:33] <jam> at least for the "bzr serve ; bzr branch bzr://localhost" style of conversion
[22:34] <jam> maybe that was only for push ?
[22:34] <jam> bzr serve; bzr push bzr://localhost/2a/repo
[22:34] <lifeless> Dunno. I will note that that is still one-machine :)
[22:35] <jam> sure, but doing "bzr upgrade" locally was faster than doing it over the loopback
[22:35] <Peng> mwhudson: FYI, I just checked cache speed with LP's graph in my LH StaticTuple branch. Set is about the same speed, but I slowed get down from ~277 ms to ~1.4 secs. :(
[22:35] <jam> hence, shuold be faster than doing it over the network
[22:35] <lifeless> jam: how many cores do you have in your test machine?
[22:35] <jam> 2
[22:35] <mwhudson> Peng: boo
[22:36] <mwhudson> i have some other thoughts but they are incoherent and a bit angry :)
[22:36] <mwhudson> and there are emails to write
[22:36] <jam> mwhudson: can you check for me if 'lp:bzr-svn' is accidentally stacked on itself on the http side?
[22:37] <jam> I just got a very strange recursion failure
[22:37] <jam> lifeless: I thought we had a fix for not trying to open self if you screwed up the stacking rules
[22:37] <jam> 'bzr info lp:bzr-svn' hangs indefinitely for me
[22:37] <jam> well, probably until stack depth is exhausted
[22:38] <lifeless> jam: We fixed creation of that I believe
[22:38] <lifeless> and have a bug open for handling
[22:38] <mwhudson> jam: it's stacked on ~jelmer/bzr-svn/1.0 i think
[22:38] <mwhudson> ah
[22:38] <mwhudson> which is stacked on lp:bzr-svn
[22:38] <jam> and then 1.0 is stacked back on the other?
[22:39] <jam>  /cry
[22:39] <mwhudson> is one of them a mirrored branch, i wonder
[22:39] <mwhudson> jam: yes
[22:39] <jelmer> I just changed bzr-svn to be hosted on launchpad
[22:39] <jelmer> but pushing with --no-stacked didn't seem to have much effect
[22:39] <jam> jelmer: just to let you know, nobody can branch it now :)
[22:39] <mwhudson> jelmer: bzr reconfigure --unstacked lp:bzr-svn maybe?
[22:39] <jam> well, except for you, probably
[22:40] <mwhudson> or i can do that
[22:40] <jam> mwhudson: would that trigger an update to the mirrored side?
[22:40] <mwhudson> jam: probably
[22:40] <jam> I'm wondering if the hosted side is fine, but the mirrored side is broken
[22:40] <mwhudson> :)
[22:40] <jam> note that you can't actually "Branch.open()" the mirrored side
[22:40] <jam> because it goes into infinite recursion
[22:40] <jam> so the branch puller may be dead as well
[22:41] <jam> at least that doesn't mean I configured the EC2 machine incorrectly :)
[22:42] <jelmer> I'll change it back to the original branch for now
[22:43] <lifeless> jelmer: just run bzr reconfigure --unstacked lp:bzr-svn
[22:43] <lifeless> or sftp in and zerg the setting ;)
[22:43] <jelmer> lifeless: reconfigure doesn't work,  maximum recursion depth
[22:43] <lifeless> mwhudson: does mirroring know to propogate stacking changes?
[22:43] <jam> mwhudson: On ~bzr-svn/bzr-svn/1.0 I see: stacked_on_location = /~jelmer/bzr-svn/1.0
[22:43] <lifeless> mwhudson: bzr pull doesn't :)
[22:43] <mwhudson> lifeless: yes
[22:43] <jam> same for ~bzr-svn/bzr-svn/trunk
[22:44] <mwhudson> jam: suggests the puller isn't coping too well
[22:44] <mwhudson> lifeless: the puller does a possibly surprising amount more than just 'bzr pull'
[22:44] <jam> and then in ~jelmer I see /~bzr-svn/bzr-svn/1.0
[22:44] <jam> so it isn't trunk => 1.0 it is 1.0 => jelmer/1.0 => 1.0
[22:44] <jelmer> jam: ~jelmer/bzr-svn/1.0 is mirrored, the original is not stacked
[22:45] <jelmer> jam: but perhaps the lp mirror is
[22:45] <jam> jelmer: mirrored branch are auto-stacked IIRC
[22:45] <jam> so that theydon't have to download the whole history versus the dev focus
[22:46] <mwhudson> i think i see what happened
[22:46] <mwhudson> jelmer/1.0 was the dev focus, and mirrored
[22:47] <mwhudson> jelmer pushed bzr-svn/1.0 which was stacked on the dev focus, jelmer/1.0 at the time
[22:47] <mwhudson> then bzr-svn/1.0 was made the dev focus
[22:48] <mwhudson> the next time the puller  processed jelmer/1.0 it restacked it on bzr-svn/1.0
[22:48] <mwhudson> --> pain and suffering
[22:49] <mwhudson> jelmer: i think you can probably unset the dev focus, delete bzr-svn/1.0, push it again and reset the dev focus
[22:49] <jam> bug #485069
[22:49] <mwhudson> as to how to stop this happening again, pfffff
[22:49] <mwhudson> no real idea :(
[22:50] <lifeless> jam: I thought there was a bug already. ce la vie
[22:50] <jam> lifeless: I had only seen one about a branch stacked on itself
[22:50] <jam> this is a bit more complex
[22:50] <jam> mwhudson: fail early with an exception rather than failing late
[22:51] <mwhudson> jam: yes, but my brain is refusing to think about how to do that
[22:53] <jam> mwhudson: well it is easy to do it for "Branch.open()" as you could just pass down 'seen_branches = [url1, url2]'
[22:53] <jam> I'm not sure how to do that for "set_stacked_on_location" unless we open that location, and check its fallbacks
[22:53] <jam> or we make "set_stacked_on..." always take a real Branch to start with.
[22:54] <mwhudson> that last feels a bit sane, at least
[22:58] <ibrandt> gioele: Hit another road block.  So I started fresh in /etc with just bzr init, bzr join httpd.  No errors, so I tried to commit that before adding everything else in /etc.  I get, "Committing to: /etc/ ; renamed  => httpd ; bzr: ERROR: An inconsistent delta was supplied involving 'httpdconf', 'conf-20091113022153-bk8us11fvhuf0cre-1' ; reason: working tree does not contain new entry"
[23:00] <lifeless> jam: http://staff.psc.edu/mathis/MTU/index.html is worth a read
[23:00] <lifeless> jam: I /really/ think upping the send and receive buffer size is important
[23:00] <jam> lifeless: Some interesting "hasattr() is evil" traceback: http://paste.ubuntu.com/321940/
[23:00] <lifeless> before changing the orderinging and compression logic
[23:00] <jam> This is the error I got trying to branch bzr-svn
[23:00] <jelmer> mwhudson: lp:~jelmer/meta-lp-deps/bzr-svn-reqs adds libapr1-dev and libsvn-dev to the dependencies (required for subvertpy)
[23:01] <jam> My guess is that hasattr() is suppressing the StackOverflow exception
[23:01] <lifeless> yes
[23:01] <jam> and it ends up as an attribute error failure
[23:01] <mwhudson> jelmer: ah
[23:01] <mwhudson> jelmer: can you propose a merge?
[23:01] <jelmer> mwhudson: Sure - Should I do that already, before the bzr-svn code has landed?
[23:01] <jam> lifeless: so I feel like I might have a handle on how to possibly do it on the client side, I don't have a good feel for what to do on the server
[23:02] <mwhudson> jelmer: i don't really know how launchpad-dependencies works right now
[23:02] <mwhudson> jelmer: now is good
[23:02] <mkanat> mwhudson: Just wanted to let you know that I'm on the loggerhead stuff today.
[23:02] <mwhudson> i guess i should file an rt asking for it to be installed on the slaves...
[23:02] <lifeless> jam: well, if we start with bzr:// and test on that we can eliminate ssh interactions
[23:02] <mwhudson> mkanat: woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
[23:02] <Peng> Loggerhead stuff?
[23:02] <gioele> ibrandt: I have no clue about that :( especially so late at night ;)
[23:02] <mkanat> Peng: I was contracted to fix some loggerhead issues.
[23:03] <gioele> ibrandt: but many devs are here, fell free to bug them ;)
[23:03] <Peng> Coool.
[23:03] <mkanat> One's the memory leak issue, the other one I have to go look up to remember.
[23:03] <ibrandt> Sure thing.  Thanks for the help.  Definitely made some headway.  Either join isn't baked, or more likely I'm just not understanding how it is supposed to be used.
[23:04] <Peng> mkanat: I love you.
[23:04] <mkanat> lol
[23:05] <mkanat> Oh, right, the other one is bug 118625.
[23:05] <Peng> Ah.
[23:05] <mkanat> mwhudson: Could you assign that bug and bug 156453  to me?
[23:05] <jelmer> mwhudson, done
[23:06] <Peng> mkanat: lp:~mkanat?
[23:06] <mkanat> PengYep.
[23:06] <mkanat> *Yep
[23:06] <mwhudson> mkanat: done
[23:06] <mkanat> mwhudson: Thanks!
[23:07] <Peng> mwhudson: You're quick. :)
[23:07] <mwhudson> mkanat: you could probably join ~loggerhead-team i guess
[23:07] <lifeless> jelmer: still around?
[23:07] <mkanat> mwhudson: Yeah, possibly. Let's see how these two bugs go first, I think.
[23:08] <jelmer> lifeless, jep
[23:08]  * mkanat tends to be very conservative about being assigned privileges or responsibilities. :-)
[23:08] <lifeless> jelmer: did you see the reviews I did?
[23:08] <mwhudson> mkanat: does https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/118625/comments/12 make sense to you?
[23:08] <lifeless> jelmer: bzr-gtk doesn't have ~bzr as a member, or something - I can't actually approve or land things there.
[23:08] <mwhudson> also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/118625/comments/13
[23:08] <jelmer> lifeless: ah, yes
[23:08] <mwhudson> mkanat: basically i think the problems revolve around the revision graph cache
[23:09] <lifeless> jelmer: so you need to land em :)
[23:09] <jelmer> lifeless: I thought we made you a member of bzr-gtk some time back ?
[23:09] <mkanat> mwhudson: Yeah, that makes sense.
[23:09] <jelmer> or was that just in bundlebuggy?
[23:09] <mwhudson> mkanat: if you can confirm that, it would be great to make building it and accessing it less all or nothing things
[23:09] <mkanat> mwhudson: I'm going to do my best to reproduce it, yeah.
[23:09] <mkanat> mwhudson: Okay.
[23:09] <lifeless> jelmer: bb I suspect
[23:09] <lifeless> jelmer: I'd add ~bzr
[23:10] <lifeless> unless you really want a partition
[23:10] <mwhudson> mkanat: cool
[23:10] <jelmer> lifless: My main reason for not doing that yet is that everybody in ~bzr-gtk can commit directly to lp:bzr-gtk
[23:10] <mkanat> I'm already pretty sure I can repro the memory leak, because it happens on my own servers.
[23:10] <mwhudson> mkanat: let me know if you want some logfiles to poke at
[23:10] <jelmer> lifeless, and I wasn't really sure what the membership policy for ~bzr was
[23:10] <mwhudson> mkanat: although local reproduction would be better of course
[23:10] <lifeless> jelmer: you could ask :)
[23:10] <mkanat> mwhudson: Yeah, I totally will. Do you have a logfile analyzer for loggerhead or anything (since they get pretty big)?
[23:10] <lifeless> jelmer: also, I hear you can uncommit things that shouldn't be landed
[23:11] <lifeless> there is also a '~bzr-core' team, I believe
[23:11] <jelmer> lifeless: Yes, but that would have taken *effort* :-)
[23:11] <lifeless> though ~bzr-core includes bzr
[23:11] <lifeless> which is odd/inverted
[23:11] <mwhudson> mkanat: i've written a bunch of crappy python scripts over the years :)
[23:11] <mwhudson> they're big but not totally crazy
[23:11]  * mkanat nods.
[23:12] <jelmer> lifeless: Wasn't either one invented because people didn't want to receive email about other projects than lp:bzr ?
[23:12] <lifeless> yes, I think that is -core
[23:12] <lifeless> its not core in the sense that other projects use -core
[23:13] <lifeless> jelmer: https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/+members#active looks fairly sane
[23:13] <lifeless> nevertheless, I don't really care. I've reviewed all outstanding bzr-gtk merges, you need to land em :)
[23:14] <jelmer> lifeless: I've added ~bzr to ~bzr-gtk
[23:14] <lifeless> cool
[23:24] <mwhudson> mkanat: have you seen the launchpad-loggerhead glue?
[23:25] <mkanat> mwhudson: No, I haven't.
[23:25] <mwhudson> mkanat: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad-loggerhead/devel
[23:25] <mkanat> mwhudson: README should mention pygments too, shouldn't it (just as a side note)?
[23:25] <mkanat> mwhudson: Thanks.
[23:25] <mwhudson> mkanat: i guess so
[23:27] <mwhudson> mkanat: do you have a launchpad dev environment?
[23:27] <mkanat> mwhudson: I don't, at the moment, no.
[23:27] <mkanat> mwhudson: I may need to set that up for the hangs one.
[23:28] <mkanat> mwhudson: The memory leak one is independent of launchpad, for sure (since I experience it), so I can test that one separately.
[23:28] <mwhudson> mkanat: i don't _expect_ either to be launchpad specific
[23:28] <mwhudson> mkanat: although we do have scary thread killing code on launchpad
[23:38] <mkanat> mwhudson: Do you know about this? AssertionError: Attempt to set headers a second time w/o an exc_info
[23:38] <mkanat> mwhudson: I get that a LOT if I htdig a local loggerhead.
[23:39] <mwhudson> you get that if rendering fails somehow
[23:39] <mwhudson> and oh man getting simpletal to tell you where something went wrong is ****ING ANNOYING
[23:39] <mkanat> lol
[23:40] <mkanat> Yeah, I'm getting various tracebacks for that assertion.
[23:40] <mkanat> I seem to be reliably making the process grow, though.
[23:40] <mwhudson> mkanat: we stream the output so the headers are set by the time rendering is happening
[23:40] <mwhudson> (and we don't want to change that)
[23:41] <mwhudson> mkanat: time to break out meliae!
[23:41] <mkanat> mwhudson: Indeed!
[23:41] <mkanat> I'm just taking a bit of time to see if I can get it as big as it was on my servers, or if it's just going to hit a ceiling and stop (which wouldn't seem like a leak to me).
[23:42] <igc> morning
[23:45] <lifeless> hi igc
[23:46] <igc> hi lifeless


[15:12] <bhearsum> chrisccoulson: is Fx15 released in Ubuntu yet?
[15:12] <bhearsum> i just got a report that someone is still getting 145
[15:12] <bhearsum> 14
[15:13] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, yeah, it's there already :)
[15:13] <bhearsum> huh, ok
[15:14] <bhearsum> i'll see if i can figure out what's up
[15:15] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, yeah, it's been there for 8 hours or so now
[15:15] <bhearsum> hmm, i think he said he's on the nightly ppa actually o_O
[15:15] <bhearsum> i don't know why that'd give him 14
[15:16] <chrisccoulson> me neither :/
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, how are you, anyway?
[15:19] <bhearsum> i'm doing alright, so damn busy though :)
[15:19] <bhearsum> how about you?
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> yeah, pretty much the same :)
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> and struggling along with an unreliable internet connection too
[15:21] <bhearsum> oh yay =\
[15:22] <bhearsum> that makes a job that requires the internet.....interesting
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it was even worse when i discovered that my 3G modem had stopped working too ;)
[15:22] <bhearsum> ouch!!
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> although, that's working again now
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> m_conley_away, seen a stack like this before? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1171850/ :)
[15:26] <bhearsum> are you involved at all with some of the new stuff you guys are doing? i heard something about a crazy mobile phone project awhile ago
[15:29] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, no, i'm not involved with anything like that
[15:30] <bhearsum> ahhh
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> it seems i work with quite a few people who like to do crazy stuff
[15:32] <bhearsum> i hear you!
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, you're not going to be in poland for mozcamp by any chance, are you?
[16:18] <bhearsum> nope :(
[16:18] <bhearsum> probably going to MozCamp Asia though
[16:18] <bhearsum> John Hopkins, another RelEng person will be there
[16:18] <chrisccoulson> ah, cool
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, do you know if the source code for the addon validator on addons.mozilla.org is available anywhere? (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/developers/addon/validate)
[18:06] <bhearsum> hmmm, i'm not sure
[18:06] <bhearsum> #developers might be a better place to ask
[18:06] <bhearsum> btw, that person who wasn't getting 15...turned out he had manually installed 14.0.1 ;)
[18:07] <chrisccoulson> aha, that makes sense :)
[18:07] <bhearsum> yeah :)
[18:10] <silverarrow> hi
[18:10] <silverarrow> does anyone know about firefox 15 and powerpc?
[18:11] <silverarrow> html5 worked fine upuntil 14.01, and sound disapeared on html5 videos
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> bhearsum, ah, https://github.com/mozilla/amo-validator
[18:12] <bhearsum> woot!
[18:14] <silverarrow> luckily flash video repalcer and mplayer still works halfway still
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> silverarrow, i've no idea. i don't think anyone is actively testing whether powerpc works. it's not officially supported
[18:17] <silverarrow> halfheartedly supported?
[18:18] <silverarrow> or  upkeep is done in larger intervals ?
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> silverarrow, i think there's basically just one community member who's actively working on powerpc support for the whole of ubuntu
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> nobody else works on it, or supports it
[18:19] <silverarrow> ooh
[18:20] <silverarrow> so we are very dependend on a single individual
[18:20] <silverarrow> he is doing a good job then
[18:20] <silverarrow> I mean, i can boot and install, most things work
[18:20] <silverarrow> major issue with different medias in browser though
[18:27] <silverarrow> he or she should have a companion at least, a team of two can releave the work load