[05:57] <MTecknology> So this is what happens when spam hits you intermittently and you don't put enough effort in to find the actual cause of the high traffic.... http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8265/graphs.png
[21:59] <stas> newz2000: i don't like the new planet
[22:00] <stas> it looks like that guys didn't even checked my updates :/


[05:02] <Nixus> anyone having an issue where some icons aren't changing in the alt-tab menU?
[10:00] <Meerkat> I have a problem with xfdesktop that was not fixed with 4.11.8-0ubuntu0.1. When I log out/log in my desktop icons are moved to the top left, ignoring whatever placements I had before. In ~/.config/xfce4/desktop/ there is a new .rc file that doesn't seem to be used. And the one I do use has been updated with incorrect data.
[10:49] <brainwash> Meerkat: does this particular problem occur more often now with the new version?
[10:52] <Meerkat> I do not remember. I upgraded to this version a while back before it was added to the repos.
[10:53] <brainwash> there is https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11266
[10:54] <brainwash> which targets version 4.11.8
[11:05] <Meerkat> what does that mean?
[11:08] <brainwash> well, please read the bug report comment :)
[11:11] <Meerkat> I read all comments. Someone writes that they will revert commit where the bug was introduced. That was 2 weeks ago.
[11:14] <brainwash> you could add a comment yourself and ask how things are going
[11:23] <Meerkat> nah, I'll just wait another 6 months. I don't feel like creating new email addresses and remembering yet another account.
[11:28] <brainwash> we will contact the xfdesktop maintainer and try to resolve the issue soon (as fast as possible hopefully)
[13:14] <inerkick> Hi friends. How to connect to Mobile broadband. Is it possible through network manager? or any other app
[13:15] <inerkick> when I connect my modem(dongle) it not shows options to connect hence ask
[13:41] <xubuntu360> Hello.
[13:58] <spicypixel> is XFCE ever going to get an update?
[13:59] <cfhowlett> spicypixel, best ask the #xfce channel
[13:59] <spicypixel> I guess so :(
[13:59] <spicypixel> guess xubuntu will be running 4.10 for the foreseeable
[14:00] <Luyin> use gentoo, there you can have xfce 4.11. but I don't see the point in that yet.
[14:02] <Luyin> http://packages.gentoo.org/category/xfce-base
[14:03] <spicypixel> yeah arch has the packages too
[14:04] <spicypixel> get a feeling lxqt will be done first
[14:10] <brainwash> spicypixel: but xubuntu does use xfce 4.11
[14:10] <spicypixel> any improvements worth mentioning over 4.10?
[14:10] <brainwash> only the about dialog is still showing 4.10
[14:12] <brainwash> many things have changed, but mostly little things have been fixed
[14:12] <spicypixel> ah nice
[14:13] <brainwash> for example http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/tree/NEWS
[15:54] <recon_lap> hi all, trying to install xubuntu onto an old rack sever, getting a black screen after selecting the install language, any tips?
[15:54] <recon_lap> 14.04 btw
[16:06] <xubuntu150> Hi, I need some help copying files and whole directories from a windows HD to a DVD
[16:06] <xubuntu150> I have a DVD drive and writable DVDs
[16:07] <xubuntu150> And I can access the windwos HD from the file manager
[16:07] <xubuntu150> No one there?  OK Thanks!
[16:18] <rosaecaeruleae> would this work? sudo apt-add-key E6A17451DC058F40
[16:20] <recon_lap> is apt-add-key even a command?
[16:21] <rosaecaeruleae> i dont know, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9939248/ << thats what I need to fix
[16:23] <recon_lap> rosaecaeruleae: you can probably make it ignore the error and force the install.
[16:36] <rosaecaeruleae> Failed to fetch http://archive.getdeb.net/ubuntu/dists/trusty-getdeb/apps/binary-amd64/Packages  403  Forbidden << how do I fix that?
[16:43] <recon_lap> rosaecaeruleae: not sure, but forbidden means the server replied but will not allow you access, maybe it's a problem on the mirror,
[16:43] <recon_lap> rosaecaeruleae: maybe you should try a different mirror
[16:45] <rosaecaeruleae> trying that
[16:53] <rosaecaeruleae> how do I find a list of all unauthenticated sources? all I see is 2 403 errors
[16:53] <rosaecaeruleae> but nothing regarding an unauthenticated source
[16:53] <holstein> rosaecaeruleae: try using the officially supported repositories
[16:54] <holstein> rosaecaeruleae: if you have issues with "getdeb.net", you'll have to ask them how that works..
[16:54] <holstein> them being, the providers/supporters of getdeb
[16:56] <holstein> rosaecaeruleae: wow.. you are mixing sources.. utopic sources and trusty sources. thats a bad idea
[16:56] <rosaecaeruleae> holstein, how do you know that?
[16:56] <recon_lap> right, going to try the text only install :)
[16:57] <holstein> rosaecaeruleae: i suggest, remove/clean-up any packages you have installed from unsupported sources, and get "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to complete without error.. then, address  your needs with repo packages when possible.. then, move on to ppa's or building from source.. etc
[17:29] <recon_lap> so much for that text installer, the one i downloaded it the same as the live cd
[17:32] <holstein> recon_lap: should end up with the same
[17:32] <holstein> let me look back to find your specific issue..
[17:33] <holstein> recon_lap: on a "rack server", could be as simple as the GPU drivers..
[17:33] <holstein> recon_lap: can you get a minimal, no x, server, headless install?
[17:33] <holstein> !mini
[17:34] <holstein> recon_lap: thats where i will start with an install on hardware that "Fails" to run a live environment, after i test the hardware
[17:34] <recon_lap> holstein: no internet connection to use here with it, might try that at another location though.
[17:34] <holstein> recon_lap: sure.. *dont* use the internet
[17:35] <holstein> recon_lap: just install the minimal environment, or the server, no-x environment.. try and isolate the system components out, and test them..
[17:35] <recon_lap> holstein: it's a question of not having the correct wires/plugs to connect it with
[17:36] <holstein> recon_lap: ok.. xubuntu wont be able to supplement the need for proper cables in any way.. expecting it to will just waste time
[17:37] <recon_lap> holstein: well, it is what it is, wish the bloody thing would just work though
[17:39] <holstein> recon_lap: if you want it to "just work", consider purchasing a product that promises linux support.. when you take hardware that is not intended to run linux, and not intended to be a desktop, and try "Re-purposing" it, it can be a challenge
[17:39] <holstein> !nomodeset | recon_lap
[17:40] <holstein> recon_lap: i assume you have tried all the boot modes in that menu.. i will try all of them when trying to boot hardware i am unfamiliar with.. i want to see that live environment ASAP
[17:41] <recon_lap> holstein: I'm trying, takes forever to boot and easy to miss the option screens
[17:41] <holstein> recon_lap: sure.. i wouldnt expect this process to be time saving in any way..
[17:42] <holstein> you are fighting with something that potentially may not promise linux support, and, you are fighting the basic design of the product by trying to make it a desktop.. you will need a lot of hands-on troubleshooting and testing
[18:18] <sjoshi> Hello, I am facing a very weird problem, My Xubuntu logsoff whenever i open opera browser second time...
[18:18] <sjoshi> opera version - 27
[18:18] <sjoshi> Xubuntu - 141.0
[18:18] <sjoshi> 14.10*
[23:27] <dchilano> hi guys
[23:27] <knome> hello
[23:28] <xubuntu24w> Hello. I have never asked for help in here, but here we go. The battery notification is greyed out in my panel. You guys know a fix?
[23:28] <dchilano> I just downloaded NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-346.35.run
[23:28] <dchilano> how do I install it?
[23:29] <xangua> dchilano: it is recommended to install the packages from ubuntu official repositories
[23:29] <knome> dchilano, why don't you use the drivers from the repository?
[23:29] <dchilano> how do I do that?
[23:30] <xubuntu24w> http://askubuntu.com/questions/18747/how-do-i-install-run-files
[23:30] <knome> dchilano, in the settings manager, check out additional drivers
[23:30] <slickymaster> xubuntu24w: If its greyed out, it means it must still be on a panel somewhere.
[23:30] <dchilano> thank you Knome
[23:30] <slickymaster> xubuntu24w: how many panels do you have? Have you checked the Items tab for each panel that you have to see if its there?
[23:31] <xubuntu24w> i only have one panel
[23:31] <xubuntu24w> here is an image to reference
[23:31] <xubuntu24w> http://postimg.org/image/x9jyczqm1/
[23:32] <dchilano> Knome: in settings manager it says no additional drivers available
[23:32] <knome> dchilano, ok... so why do you think you need an additional driver?
[23:33] <dchilano> Knome: I thought I had to manually install it for my nvidia gt740
[23:33] <knome> dchilano, if your system is working well (with the open source driver), you're good as is :)
[23:33] <xubuntu24w> Slickymaster -: the problem is not that it is greyed out in the panel manager, but the actual background of it is grey :S sorry for my bad explanation
[23:34] <knome> xubuntu24w, looks like a theme that doesn't support the gtk version you are running
[23:36] <slickymaster> xubuntu24w, what knome said ^^
[23:36] <xubuntu24w> hmmm, it is just standard Numix, i think xubuntu comes with it. I also tried changing the theme, and it didn't seem to fix it :/
[23:37] <dchilano> Knome: I was watching a youtube video and it was choppy...So I thought it might be the video driver
[23:37] <xubuntu24w> Is there something i'm missing? btw thanks for the help hehe
[23:37] <dchilano> but now I realize thats how the video was encoded :P
[23:37] <dchilano> I just pulled up some 4k videos and they play splendidly
[23:39] <knome> dchilano, yeah... and while i think youtube does that by default now, you can make sure you are using the html5 player whenever possible at http://youtube.com/html5
[23:40] <xubuntu24w> bump*
[23:40] <knome> xubuntu24w, no need to do that.
[23:40] <xubuntu24w> okay sorry, first time i'm in here :)
[23:41] <dchilano> Knome: I believe youtube implemented html5 player by default now
[23:42] <dchilano> or am i thinking of https with gmail?
[23:42] <knome> dchilano, as i said, i believe it's doing it already... but just to make sure.


[11:48] <smoser> is the DMB meeting in 10 minutes ?
[11:49] <smoser> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ says so, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda says 13:00 UTC
[11:52] <Laney> smoser: I believe it is in 70 minutes
[11:55] <nigelb> ha, UTC != BST.
[11:56] <Laney> for half of the year :-)
[11:56] <Laney> anway, must conserve battery on phone so i can attend the meeting
[11:56] <Laney> toodles
[11:58] <smoser> Laney, so you think the google calendar shows BST
[11:58] <nigelb> smoser: Its easier to look at iceland on a clock :)
[11:59] <smoser> i guess that make ssense, but it squite confusing, and i dont see a way to tell that.
[12:00] <smoser> i'm just surprised that the calendar there doesn't have an option to show what time zone its showing in.
[12:00] <nigelb> I wonder if the calender is wrong.
[12:02] <nigelb> smoser: calender is wrongly saying 12:00 UTC when it should be 13:00 UTC
[12:21] <cody-somerville> sigh. I thought I had fixed that.
[12:25] <cody-somerville> wtf
[12:25] <cody-somerville> I keep setting it to 1300 and Google changes it
[12:28] <nigelb> cody-somerville: are you setting your time zone to iceland before you do that?
[12:29] <cody-somerville> to something like that yea
[12:29] <nigelb> bah, google fail.
[13:00] <smoser> o/
[13:01] <soren> cody-somerville: "something like that"?
[13:01]  * Daviey raises a pair of pompoms for smoser
[13:01] <soren> cody-somerville: What are you *actually* setting it to?
[13:02] <iamfuzz> smoser, always assumed you already were core-dev
[13:04] <smoser> no, iamfuzz, i am mere mortal.
[13:04] <iamfuzz> for a few more short minutes
[13:07] <cody-somerville> bdrung, persia, Laney, maco, stgraber: ping
[13:07] <stgraber> pong
[13:15] <cody-somerville> Unfortunately, it appears we don't have quorum today and will be unable to move forward with the meeting. My apologies.
[13:15] <Daviey> :(
[13:16] <cody-somerville> In other news, McDonalds charged me for two hashbrowns but only gave me one. :-(
[14:10] <highvoltage> how *dare* they!
[14:40] <maco> cody-somerville: wah sorry. i need to send that mail about this meeting time being bad for me :(
[15:00]  * skaet waves
[15:01]  * skaet looks around to see if we have quorum for an SRU meeting.
[15:03] <jibel> Hey skaet :)
[15:03] <skaet> hiya jibel
[15:03] <brendand> skaet - i'm here
[15:03] <skaet> brendand
[15:03] <skaet> ok,  and sconklin, and bjf have joined.
[15:03] <skaet> ok,  quorum
[15:03] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is skaet.
[15:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:04] <skaet> SRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.
[15:04] <skaet> [TOPIC] Release overview - skaet
[15:04] <skaet> .
[15:04] <skaet> 10.04.3
[15:04] <skaet> Thanks to all who helped putting out the release on July 21.  Appreciate everyone's flexibility to pull it together,  and get that last kernel update pushed out in expedited fashion.
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release overview - skaet
[15:04] <skaet> .
[15:04] <skaet> There is a new old-releases server,  so the space issues should be resolved for a bit.
[15:04] <skaet> .
[15:04] <skaet> I still haven't gotten all the folks lined up for a Tuesday time.  In progress.
[15:04] <skaet> ..
[15:04] <skaet> Moving in to round table then....
[15:05] <skaet> [TOPIC] HW certification - brendand
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - brendand
[15:05] <brendand> == Hardware Certification SRU Report ==
[15:05] <brendand> • Tested Lucid kernel (2.6.32-33.71): http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/wk29_2011/lucid-proposed.html
[15:05] <brendand> ...
[15:06] <skaet> ..?
[15:07] <skaet> brendand,  are the fails issues with the test infrastructure or something to worry about?
[15:08] <brendand> skaet - it was established they were infrastructure/test issues. i put my 'pass' on the tracking bug, so no issues to worry about
[15:08] <skaet> brendand, thanks!
[15:08] <skaet> any other questions for brendand?
[15:09] <skaet> [TOPIC] QA status - hggdh or jibel
[15:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - hggdh or jibel
[15:09] <jibel> 10.04.3 testing report is available at
[15:09] <jibel> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/LucidPoint3TestReport
[15:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/LucidPoint3TestReport
[15:09] <jibel> 2 noticeable issues are :
[15:09] <jibel> were
[15:09] <jibel> bug 650703
[15:10] <jibel> the problem with that one, is that the fix has not been ported to lucid on time.
[15:10] <jibel> bug 588861
[15:10] <jibel> which was a regression
[15:11] <jibel> Kernel testing:
[15:11] <jibel> * Tested lucid kernel 2.6.32-33.71
[15:12] <jibel> * Lucid linux-lts-backport-maverick: 2.6.35-30.56~lucid1
[15:12] <jibel> * Maverick 2.6.35-30.56
[15:13] <jibel> And that's all from QA.
[15:13] <jibel> ..
[15:14] <skaet> Thanks jibel!
[15:14] <skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf
[15:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf
[15:14] <sconklin> everything we have now is waiting for archive copies
[15:16] <skaet> ok,  am seeing lucid, and natty there.   will copy both over today.
[15:16] <skaet> jibel, brendand - what is the outlook on having slots to do the runs on them?
[15:17] <brendand> skaet - sure, we were really expecting natty soon
[15:17] <brendand> skaet - we'll have the time
[15:18] <skaet> brendand,  thanks. :)
[15:18] <jibel> skaet, I'll tell you after the meeting as hggdh is not around.
[15:19] <skaet> jibel,  fair enough.  A3 will probably be a resource confict I expect.
[15:19] <hggdh> huh
[15:19] <hggdh> we should be able to run the kernel regressions in a few, the machines are being set up
[15:20] <skaet> hggdh,  good to know.   thanks.
[15:20] <skaet> any other questions about the upcoming kernels?
[15:20] <skaet> [TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof
[15:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof
[15:21] <vanhoof> hi skaet
[15:21] <skaet> :)
[15:21] <vanhoof> skaet: currently we look good overall, everything of importance is targetted towards the current natty -proposed
[15:22] <vanhoof> skaet: we'll be focusing in on the remaining bugs we have open for oneiric, but nothing critical for stable releases this week
[15:22] <vanhoof> ..
[15:22] <skaet> thanks vanhoof!  :)
[15:22] <skaet> [TOPIC] any other business,  remaining questions/comments?
[15:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  any other business,  remaining questions/comments?
[15:23] <skaet> pitti is on vacation this week,   so am working with other members of the Archive Admin team to backfill as best as possible.
[15:24] <skaet> please flag things to me in the interim if they're lagging longer than you think, and I'll try to help.
[15:24] <skaet> ..
[15:24] <skaet> anyone else?
[15:25] <skaet> Thanks brendand, jibel, pitti, sconklin, hggdh, vanhoof
[15:25] <skaet> #endmeeting
[15:25] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:25.
[15:25] <vanhoof> thanks skaet
[15:31] <jibel> Thanks skaet
[17:01] <mdeslaur> \o
[17:01] <kees> o/
[17:02] <mdeslaur> who want to lead?
[17:02] <micahg> kees has bot experience
[17:02] <kees> #startmeeting
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is kees.
[17:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:02] <kees> [topic] stand-up
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  stand-up
[17:03] <mdeslaur> kees: make sure it speaks bocce
[17:03] <kees> okay, so, I'll be at blackhat/defcon this week, so mostly I'll be taking lots of notes
[17:03] <kees> mdeslaur: but *whine whine* </skywalker>
[17:03] <mdeslaur> hehe
[17:04] <kees> while on planes, I'll be trying to continue working on the LP/UCT sync tools
[17:04] <kees> that's in from me!
[17:04] <kees> mdeslaur: you're up
[17:05] <mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
[17:05] <mdeslaur> and will probably be doing community as well
[17:05] <mdeslaur> I have some samba updates to test and release
[17:05] <mdeslaur> and plan on working on the hplip/foomatic stuff
[17:05] <mdeslaur> that's it
[17:05] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're next
[17:06] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: if you want, I can take community this week
[17:06] <sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week, so I'm planning on catching up on work items.
[17:06] <sbeattie> mostly apparmor related stuff
[17:06] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: sure
[17:07] <sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me; micahg?
[17:07] <micahg> webkit, patch piloting, release team meeting, and uploading next round of mozilla updates for testing close to EOW
[17:08] <micahg> also chromium if it ever surfaces
[17:08] <micahg> ..
[17:09] <micahg> done
[17:09] <mdeslaur> who's next?
[17:10] <micahg> the rest of the meeting?
[17:10] <kees> yes! er...
[17:10] <kees> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[17:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
[17:10] <kees> had none....
[17:10] <kees> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[17:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Highlighted packages
[17:10] <kees> I'm not sure how these are chosen. :)
[17:11]  * micahg would guess repeating last week's if they haven't been fixed yet wouldn't be a bad idea
[17:11] <mdeslaur> +1
[17:11] <sbeattie> kees: I *think* it's $UCT/scripts/report-todo-recommend
[17:11] <kees> sbeattie: ah!
[17:12] <kees> one moment... processing
[17:12] <kees> openjdk-6: CVE-2005-1080  *snicker*
[17:12] <kees> bozohttpd: CVE-2010-2195 CVE-2010-2320
[17:12] <kees> icinga: CVE-2011-1523 CVE-2011-2179 CVE-2011-2477
[17:12] <kees> freebsd-sendpr: CVE-2008-5142
[17:12] <kees> dimp1: CVE-2010-3693
[17:13] <kees> I will leave the openjdk-6 CVE out, I think :)
[17:13] <kees> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:13] <kees> anything we need to cover and haven't yet?
[17:13] <sbeattie> kees: sadly, it needs fixing upstream
[17:14] <kees> sbeattie: yeah :(
[17:14] <kees> okay, then I think that's it!
[17:14] <kees> thanks everyone!
[17:15] <mdeslaur> thanks kees
[17:15] <kees> #endmeeting
[17:15] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:15.
[18:33]  * negronjl is away: out to lunch


[00:02] <nhandler> I may or may not be at the meeting this weekend. Is it ok if I add an item to the agenda to be discussed?
[00:55] <Kangarooo> hello.. could ubuntu loco teams template made more  info?
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> hi Kangarooo
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> what exactly are you talking about? do you have a link?
[08:02] <mdke> nhandler: yes, absolutely
[14:04] <KelvinGardiner> Hi, what is the correct way to reference a menu item such as File -> new in a wiki page, using → or -> ?
[14:32] <LjL> in a minute i'm reverting the latest 3 changes to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat?action=diff&rev1=331&rev2=334 - as i don't really think it's appropriate to put such a prominent notice on how to report bugs on an unrelated help page. besides, i really suspect the source of user confusion was not that page but https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pidgin (which also had that notice added, but which is probably ill-convceived in my opinion)
[16:02] <bencrisford> I'm a little confused about adding images to the community documentation wiki
[16:02] <bencrisford> how would I go about doing it?
[16:25] <jpds> I'm not sure, but you should be able to add it vi Attachments and then {{image.png}} on the page.
[16:26] <bencrisford> ok, i didnt find an attatchments bar :-/
[16:26] <bencrisford> would i be able to do {{http://www.picture.com/picture.jpg}}?
[16:36] <jpds> bencrisford: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation?action=AttachFile for example.
[16:37] <jpds> You have to click: "Show editing options".
[16:43] <bencrisford> ooo...  thanks :)
[21:34] <mdke> DougieRichardson: is your playbook on the wiki already? If not, could you upload it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation and link it from the "Getting Started" section?
[21:38] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I just changed the page with a link to it on my site, I've got it in a bzr branch on LP - can we integrate it into the teams docs? I'd like to keep it centralised to the team so only one copy needs maintained
[21:40] <mdke> DougieRichardson: the wiki is the right place for it really - we can then maintain the copy that is there
[21:40] <mdke> DougieRichardson: I think it's better to have it on the Ubuntu wiki rather than your site, no?
[21:41] <mdke> DougieRichardson: how is the document created, by the way?
[21:41] <DougieRichardson> mdke: you misunderstand me - I'm not bothered about keeping it on my site but it and the ODF its generated from as well as associated images is in a BZR brancg already
[21:41] <mdke> ok, I see
[21:42] <mdke> I think ideally we could keep the odf in a bzr branch, and the published pdf on the wiki
[21:42] <mdke> do you agree?
[21:43] <DougieRichardson> yes entirely happy with that - can we not link directly from the wiki to the copy of the PDF on LP?
[21:45] <DougieRichardson> man the openweek session that's running at the moment has totally dropped into chaos
[21:47] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I've changed it to a link to the copy on LP
[21:49] <mdke> ok, I don't know if that link changes or not, let's give it a go for now
[21:49] <philip_> how do you guys deal with copyrights and credits? for example, this pdf contains dougie's name... is it common here to do such things?
[21:50] <DougieRichardson> philip_:mdke knows a _bit_ about law, lol
[21:51] <philip_> i'm used to using vcs history as the credits and no inserting author names into the documents themselves
[21:52] <philip_> but am not sure what's best, like maybe this decreases peoples motivations to contribute
[21:53] <philip_> so sorry DougieRichardson for picking on you, but it's easy for an outsider to do :)
[21:54] <DougieRichardson> philip_: in the system documentation, we link to the contributers page where everyone's name is.
[21:54] <DougieRichardson> this being a new idea and me having written it and (without blowing my own trumpet) being a highly vocal entity on the Planet and other places I'm happy to be the POC for this new initiative.
[21:55] <philip_> okay, so i'm looking at: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/internet/C/disconnecting-wireless.html
[21:55] <DougieRichardson> This is something that if sucessful, should be under the doc teams control
[21:55] <DougieRichardson> philip_:I wrote that, lol
[21:55] <philip_> is "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam" the link you refer to?
[21:55] <philip_> i see no author names or links to commit history
[21:56] <mdke> we tend to use "Ubuntu Documentation Team" as the author details for documents
[21:56] <philip_> oh, it does link to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
[21:56] <mdke> in due course if the playbook is contributed to by other members, I'd like to see that there as well, although obviously it's up to Dougie
[21:56] <DougieRichardson> philip_: No there's a seperate section
[21:57] <mdke> in theory copyright in documentation belongs to each person who contributes
[21:57] <DougieRichardson> mdke: its cc so i'm cool
[21:57] <mdke> philip_: this is what we do with docs - https://help.ubuntu.com/legal.html
[21:58] <philip_> ah
[21:58] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I propose with the playbooks, once we've settled in to them to move them to the team and change the author to the team
[21:58] <philip_> it's a tough topic, something that's been on my mind for about 7 years
[21:59] <mdke> DougieRichardson: yes, it would be good to have the bzr branch under the ~ubuntu-core-doc team
[22:00] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I'm happy with that, I'd like to be POC for it at present if no one has any objections
[22:00] <mdke> DougieRichardson: what's meant by POC? Personally I like people always to go to the mailing list for contacting anything about the team
[22:00] <DougieRichardson> point of contact
[22:01] <mdke> that way if someone isn't around, someone else can answer
[22:01] <mdke> I know what it stands for :)
[22:01] <DougieRichardson> i know
[22:01] <philip_> i didn't and was looking it up :)
[22:01] <bencrisford> same :), but im looking up playbook as well?  what is it :S?
[22:02] <mdke> I mean, what do you have in mind in terms of contact - off-list contact?
[22:02] <DougieRichardson> I think that's valid but not until after this weekend's meeting where we have defined and agreed what direction to take with them
[22:02] <philip_> they seem like quick guides to me
[22:03] <philip_> bencrisford: i think playbook is a term relating to a book of plays, like a sports team might have... specific plays to perform specific tasks on a specific topic
[22:03] <DougieRichardson> philip_: they are but its part of a bigger push to make contribution as easy as we can
[22:03] <mdke> DougieRichardson: ok... although i don't think anyone can say that it's not a good idea to produce those quick guides - certainly no one has objected on the list
[22:03] <bencrisford> hmm, cool :)
[22:04] <philip_> someone asked how to check out something from bzr recently... i am new to bzr so don't feel comfortable but that wiki page should include examples
[22:05] <bencrisford> is bzr like svn?
[22:05] <DougieRichardson> mdke: not off list
[22:05] <philip_> this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Repository
[22:05] <bencrisford> ah nice :)
[22:05] <philip_> should include copy-n-paste examples for ubuntu-docs
[22:06] <philip_> currently it assumes we know that bzr magically knows about the ubuntu domain, and that we know what branches are
[22:06] <bencrisford> ah it looks alot like svn
[22:06] <bencrisford> which im familiar with
[22:07] <philip_> a little different, but yeah... it's a version control system (although distributed instead of centralized like svn is)
[22:07] <bencrisford> ah ok
[22:07] <bencrisford> im really eager to get involved with the documentation now :D
[22:08] <bencrisford> i have been sitting on the fence for a while, but after docs day i have been inspired :)
[22:08] <philip_> see if you can figure out how to check it out :)
[22:08] <DougieRichardson> actually, I have a sheet for Bazaar available
[22:08] <bencrisford> :)
[22:08] <bencrisford> a pdf sheet?
[22:09] <philip_> a cheat sheet / quick guide i reckon
[22:09] <bencrisford> cool =]
[22:09] <DougieRichardson> yes a single a4 sheet
[22:09] <bencrisford> nice, is it available for download at all?
[22:10] <philip_> with all these different guides and howtos, just promise to now allow some to get out of date ;)
[22:10] <philip_> s/now/not
[22:10] <DougieRichardson> http://www.lynxworks.eu/files/BazaarPlaybook.pdf
[22:11] <bencrisford> great :D, thanks
[22:11] <philip_> this assumes we know what an ADDRESS is
[22:11] <philip_> bzr newbies have no clue
[22:12] <philip_> branches too
[22:12] <bencrisford> which is why this channel is here
[22:12] <DougieRichardson> mdke: I'll change the attribution to doc team at some point over the weekend, can we merge my branch into the teams?
[22:12] <mdke> DougieRichardson: you can just change the branch owner in Launchpad
[22:12] <DougieRichardson> mdke: OK
[22:13] <bencrisford> is CIA-18 a bzr bot?
[22:13] <mdke> bencrisford: it can be, but we don't use it at the moment
[22:13] <bencrisford> oh :), i was just wondering
[22:13] <bencrisford> because we have a CIA-12
[22:13] <bencrisford> which does svn
[22:14] <mdke> yeah, CIA does almost everything
[22:14] <bencrisford> by we i mean spux project
[22:14] <bencrisford> #spux (freenode)
[22:14] <philip_> one nice thing about github is clicking a button gives you a CIA bot automagically
[22:17] <mdke> we can't really use CIA effectively because we can't install it on LP
[22:17] <mdke> although if every team member used it, it would work
[22:17] <mdke> the ubuntu installer team does that
[22:20] <mdke> philip_: I'll add some example commands to the Repository page
[22:21] <philip_> cool
[22:21] <bencrisford> mdke: what do i have to do to start contributing sysdocs?
[22:22] <bencrisford> do i just submit some patches on LP or what?
[22:22] <philip_> pretty sure that is addressed in the guide
[22:22] <DougieRichardson> mdke: what happened with being able to set bug importance?
[22:23] <philip_> bencrisford: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/ has words, then links to "Submitting"
[22:23] <bencrisford> oh cool, thank you
[22:23] <bencrisford> :)
[22:24] <philip_> btw, last month i blogged about the greatness behind the ubuntu "get involved" page so in case you're interested:
[22:24] <philip_> http://blog.roshambo.org/archives/Learning-how-to-help-people-contribute-to-the-PHP.net-Project.html
[22:24] <philip_> basically, i love the ubuntu get involved howto specifically for the docs
[22:24] <bencrisford> nice =]
[22:25] <bencrisford> i have been doing the documentation for spux project, which is a ventrilo client for linux
[22:25] <bencrisford> im loving learning all the docbook :)
[22:25] <bencrisford> brb - bath
[22:26] <philip_> and plan to steal ideas from the ubuntu guide while working on: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Teaching_Get_Involved
[22:26] <philip_> so anyway, enough rambling, i'll let everyone get back to work :)
[22:33] <bencrisford1> my internet :'(
[22:34] <bencrisford1> i upgraded to jaunty and suddenly my internet doesnt work properly, and my display drivers are broke
[22:34] <bencrisford1> not to mention the general performance
[22:40] <mdke> DougieRichardson: I've been going back and forth a bit with the bug guy about it, the bottom line is that people are likely to have to apply to the bug control team in the usual way in order to set bug importance - although i'm trying to convince him to accept a "fast-tracked" procedure
[22:41] <DougieRichardson> mdke:cool, i don't understand why the project driver can't set it within their own packages
[22:42] <bencrisford1> i applied to the bug control team like ages ago, i forgot all about returning my application :S
[22:42] <bencrisford1> gosh im so forgettful at times
[22:42] <nhandler> mdke: Would they be willing to make the core-doc team a subteam of bug control?
[22:43] <nhandler> I know that they do that for MOTU
[22:43] <bencrisford1> night
[22:48] <mdke> nhandler: I don't think so - unles the core-doc team guarantees to apply their requirements for membership
[22:48] <mdke> DougieRichardson: they are a bit careful about it because members can see private apport bugs which may contain sensitive data
[22:49] <nhandler> Yeah, I forgot about that privilege mdke. I guess it is best if they apply separately to the bugcontrol team
[22:52] <DougieRichardson> Fair enough
[22:57] <mdke> right, let's get an upload to karmic on the board
[22:57] <nhandler> mdke: You haven't done a karmic upload yet? What's taking you so long ;)
[22:58] <Rocket2DMn> lol nhandler , nothing has really changed yet, why upload new docs?
[22:58] <mdke> nhandler: I should have uploaded last weekend
[22:59] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: lots of bugs fixed in this upload, mostly by your good self
[22:59] <Rocket2DMn> :)
[22:59] <Rocket2DMn> i need to start learning how to use bzr
[23:00] <Rocket2DMn> guess i should figure out how to check out my own branch and keep it in sync with the main one
[23:00] <mdke> your patches have been great so far
[23:00] <mdke> haven't you used bzr for them?
[23:00] <Rocket2DMn> well, i kept a local copy of the main branches with bzr
[23:00] <Rocket2DMn> for instance, some users have branches here - https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc
[23:01] <mdke> ah, that's very much optional
[23:01] <mdke> it's for pushing specific fixes and making a merge request
[23:01] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i figured, it would be a good learning exercise though
[23:01] <mdke> it's kinda an alternative to posting patches
[23:02] <Rocket2DMn> ok, well, i'll figure it out at a later time, i need to go make dinner
[23:03] <nhandler> Rocket2DMn: I would be glad to show you if you want
[23:03] <Rocket2DMn> thanks nhandler , perhaps later this evening
[23:04] <nhandler> Sure thing ;)
[23:06] <mdke> awesome
[23:06] <mdke> Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed:<PHONE_NUMBER>72<PHONE_NUMBER>45<PHONE_NUMBER>08<PHONE_NUMBER>44<PHONE_NUMBER>52
[23:09] <mdke> 10 bugs fixed in the first week of karmic
[23:39] <mdke> philip_: I've played with the Repository page a bit, ee if that helps
[23:40] <mdke> damn this keyboard
[23:40] <mdke> this laptop is getting prehistoric


[13:18] <Aeefire> hey guys.
[16:01]  * ogra_ waves
[16:01] <seb128> ogra_, dholbach: is there a meeting today?
[16:01] <seb128> hey
[16:02] <dholbach> I'm in a separate meeting right now
[16:02] <dholbach> ogra_ announced it before, so I'd assume that yes
[16:02] <ogra_> seb128, well, at least for a quick status run-down, yes
[16:02] <seb128> who is leading?
[16:02] <janimo> hi
[16:02] <seb128> is there an agenda?
[16:02] <ogra_> nope
[16:02] <ogra_> we could make one up for next week though
[16:02] <ogra_> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan 25 16:02:49 2013 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:03] <ogra_> hey everyonw, this is the nexus7 status meeting
[16:03] <kyleN> hi
[16:03] <ogra_> i'll give a quick summary of what happened this week ...
[16:03] <ogra_> so thanks to jani who wrote a prototype in GO, we now have auto-rotation working !
[16:03] <ogra_> as well as the ambient light sensor
[16:04] <ogra_> (i took the prototype and implemented it in shell, as an interim solution)
[16:04] <ogra_> togather with the autorotation, an xorg fix landed that makes touch input in portrait mode work
[16:04] <janimo> if we are to integrate with gnome-system-daemon we need changes to the kernel so we expose an input interface as that daemon expects
[16:05] <janimo> we may get it this cycle or we may just stick with the shell daemon, not sure yet
[16:05] <ogra_> right, the question is if we will keep g-s-d in this form on the later tablet setup
[16:05] <janimo> I have been looking into it the past few days though and I'd like to get it done properly
[16:05] <ogra_> right, the shell daemons are really just interim solutions
[16:05] <janimo> no idea. What is the later tablet setup - related to ubuntu phone?
[16:05] <seb128> g-s-d is being discussed
[16:05] <ogra_> i found it important for testing the features to have it in asap
[16:06] <seb128> we want to reduce its scope for sure
[16:06] <ogra_> so we can see how the UI reacts to rotation etc
[16:06] <seb128> so if it's as easy to implement those feature in other places feel free
[16:06] <janimo> seb128, well it is certainly easier but at the cost of extra footprint that a separate daemon brings
[16:06] <janimo> something we keep ignoring and that got us into this bloated mess in the first place :)
[16:06] <seb128> right
[16:07] <seb128> well, we should perhaps implement those feature in unity itself for example
[16:07] <ogra_> well, i wouldnt mind a small daemon in C
[16:07] <janimo> we were supposed to have a push for reducing memory footprint this cycle, at leats not add extra stuff if we can't make it lower :)
[16:07] <ogra_> depending on the feature though
[16:07] <seb128> the issue is that the higher number of process, the higher cost in context switches, wakeups, memory usage, etc
[16:07] <ogra_> janimo, as long as the new extra stuff is smaller i dont care :)
[16:08] <ogra_> janimo, btw, did tvoss talk to you ?
[16:08] <janimo> this daemon is by far not among the high footprint daemons but everything adds up
[16:08] <janimo> nope
[16:08] <ogra_> he seems to work on an API for sensor stuff
[16:08] <janimo> nice, I'll follow up after the meeting
[16:08] <ogra_> so if there is something in the works we could use, that might help
[16:09] <ogra_> i pointed him to you ... hm
[16:09] <ogra_> (days ago)
[16:09] <janimo> well I discovered g-s-d covers accel and screen rotation, but only with a paritcular type of accelerometer in the kernel
[16:09] <janimo> there's no unifying interface
[16:09] <ogra_> right
[16:09] <seb128> seems better to build on that codebase
[16:09] <ogra_> though the question is, will we stay with g-s-d at all for sensors
[16:09] <seb128> rather than to write a new one
[16:09] <janimo> also discovered by accident while poking in sysfs that my x86 laptop has an accelrometer
[16:10] <janimo> which also does not work with g-s-d
[16:10] <seb128> ogra_, no immediate plan to replace g-s-d, and we can easily move bits of code out of gsd to some other source later if needed
[16:10] <ogra_> ok
[16:10] <seb128> ogra_, it's not like the work would be wasted
[16:10] <seb128> I would improve g-s-d as a start
[16:10] <seb128> seems the less work path
[16:10] <janimo> well sensors are not that separate from settings, it makes sense imo to have light sensor integrated in backlight settings and other screen related stuff
[16:10] <ogra_> right, making g-s-d actually generic deinitely helps
[16:11] <ogra_> definitely
[16:11] <janimo> so from what limited knowledge I have g-s-d seems the place for it - if we plan on keeping g-s-d that is
[16:11] <ogra_> right
[16:11] <seb128> we do plan to keep it in the near futur
[16:11] <ogra_> i'm just careful because i heard we might not ... but what seb128 said, it helps in general
[16:11] <seb128> we might move some bits out to small "on-demand" services
[16:11] <ogra_> ++
[16:12] <ogra_> once upstart can handle it :)
[16:12] <janimo> I hope those are not written in python though
[16:12] <seb128> like if "rotation" can be an upstart daemon we could span the helper from an upstart script
[16:12] <seb128> and take it down again
[16:12] <ogra_> yeah
[16:12] <ogra_> thats what i do atm
[16:12] <seb128> upstart daemon->signal
[16:12] <ogra_> but for the session side it uses Xsession.d
[16:12] <janimo> rotation does not seem like an on-deman thing though, I expect people want it on all the time with a tablet
[16:12] <ogra_> instead of upstart ...
[16:12] <seb128> well, if the rotation triggers an upstart signal we can bind a script to it
[16:12] <ogra_> janimo, in android i dont :)
[16:13] <seb128> that would avoid having the code running all the time to poll for the rotation event
[16:13] <ogra_> if i read a book and lie on the side in bed i dont want it rotating all the time
[16:13]  * seb128 always turn off autorotate
[16:13] <seb128> it's more annoying than useful
[16:13] <ogra_> seb128, well, the polling is the biggest issue atm, yeah
[16:14] <ogra_> the daemon is like 20 lines of shell :)
[16:14] <ogra_> wouldnt eat much if it wouldnt have to poll every second
[16:14] <ogra_> in the current state its one of the biggest CPU consumers though
[16:14] <janimo> we could fix that by doing the poll in the kernel and firing off uevents when things change
[16:14] <seb128> can we make xorg/the kernel to send a signal?
[16:14] <ogra_> yeah
[16:14] <janimo> needs some coding but can be done - not sure if it's the right place though
[16:15] <ogra_> kernel
[16:15] <seb128> it might be worth dropping an email on ubuntu-devel list?
[16:15] <lool> Apparently gsd reads an ID_INPUT_ACCELEROMETER_ORIENTATION property via gudev
[16:15] <seb128> to get input from kernel people?
[16:15] <janimo> seb128, but we also need to add code to interpret the raw data and keep track of orientation in the kernel then - moving the shell code to kernel C code
[16:15] <ogra_> lool, rhight, which only very few accelerometers seem to trigger
[16:16] <lool> If I understand what you folks are saying: 1) this doesn't work on N7 2) we would like to change this from poll to event-based
[16:16] <janimo> seems a bit crazy - but this sensor does not have an orientation even itself unless loaded with proprietary firmware which we do not have
[16:16] <lool> so on 1), do we know what to do to set this property right?
[16:16] <ogra_> lool, right, but 0.5) we only have the free part of the driver
[16:16] <janimo> lool, I am looking into this now. The nexus7 sensor is dumb
[16:16] <lool> and 2), do we have a way to trigger something in the active session based on udev events?
[16:16] <janimo> and only provides raw accel data
[16:16] <ogra_> lool, which doesnt give us 100% of the features
[16:17] <lool> I think there's an udev bridge for upstart, can we use it?
[16:17] <janimo> lool, g-s-d listens to udev events from accel devices
[16:17] <ogra_> right, we just need the events
[16:17] <janimo> so that part is covered if we make our kernel side similar to what is already handled
[16:17] <ogra_> yeah
[16:17] <lool> janimo: ah so it's not poll, it's already uevent based
[16:17] <janimo> so an input device with uevents, polling
[16:17] <janimo> lool, right.
[16:18] <ogra_> our current driver doesnt even provide a device
[16:18] <lool> so we only miss a correct kernel path for this
[16:18] <janimo> when the currenlty handled (asus-laptop pega I think) accel fires off an ACPI even saying rotation changed
[16:18] <ogra_> so these bits need adding
[16:18] <janimo> the driver emits an uevent
[16:18] <janimo> a udev helper is called that reads the raw data and calculated orientation - again, as uevents cannot carry metadata
[16:18] <janimo> and exports that as env -var
[16:18] <janimo> udev property I mean
[16:19] <janimo> and g-s-d reads it
[16:19] <ogra_> that sounds like a really slow process
[16:19] <ogra_> compared to what we do atm
[16:19] <janimo> lool, the rewason I am not sure about the kernel part is that there is no standard kernel way of exposing accels, g-s-d uses one of the existing approaches
[16:19] <ogra_> i wonbder if we couldnt have that with less players involved
[16:20] <janimo> but for instance it does not work with my acer accelerometer either, that too does things a bit differently
[16:20]  * xnox realises it's meeting time.
[16:20] <janimo> ogra_, well g-s-d as our shell script could just read raw data and handle everything, but would need to have a lot of sensor specific code
[16:20] <janimo> and would need to do detection
[16:20] <janimo> udev handles detection of device at least
[16:20] <ogra_> and would need to poll
[16:21] <ogra_> right, i just wonder if that cant be done more direct ... udev->xorg
[16:21] <janimo> so the g-s-d stuff seems ok to me, just that restrict all sensor to the input subsystem (nexus is on IIO does not even provide an input device)
[16:21] <ogra_> and have g-s-d only intercept if the user actually switches it off
[16:21] <janimo> and a specific devnode with input_struct layout as a joystick (X, Y, X values)
[16:22] <ogra_> yeah
[16:22] <janimo> it is doable, I'll keep at it for a few more days
[16:22] <ogra_> well, lets not go to much into detail
[16:22] <ogra_> we'll see what you come up with ;)
[16:22] <ogra_> xnox, want to give an update ?
[16:22]  * xnox also thought that udev is ought to be generating the events from accelorometer and then g-s-d or whatever can piggy back on top. Gives us the most flexibility to consume those events.
[16:23] <janimo> and take into account the galaxy nexus too which has a sensor from the same family but different
[16:23] <ogra_> same but different ... yay
[16:23] <janimo> I'd rather we not have to add code to every sensor if upstream decides they are all going to be IIO and not input devices
[16:23] <xnox> I finished usb-creator support for flashing nexus7 tablets using .img + .bootimg files.
[16:23] <ogra_> wohooo
[16:23] <janimo> so maybe changing g-s-d is better long term
[16:23] <ogra_> janimo, yeah
[16:23] <xnox> Currently it only "recognises" nexus7 ID_VENDOR_ID and ID_MODEL_ID
[16:24] <ogra_> thats enough for a start
[16:24] <ogra_> we can add a big database over time :)
[16:24] <xnox> so if there are other devices please send me their VENDOR_IDs / MODEL_IDs
[16:24] <seb128> janimo, maybe drop a summary email to ubuntu-devel@ about the rotation/g-s-d/kernel topic? might be better for discussion
[16:24] <janimo> xnox, nexus devices you mean?
[16:24] <ogra_> once we switch to nexus4 and nexus10 :)
[16:24] <ogra_> seb128, ++
[16:24] <janimo> seb128, I will follow up to the original thread once I have a bit more info
[16:24] <xnox> janimo: yeah, i do want ids of the nexus range to be in the usb-creator.
[16:24] <xnox> janimo: but I don't have them.
[16:24] <seb128> janimo, thanks
[16:25] <janimo> xnox, so galaxy nexus phone too?
[16:25] <ogra_> [action] jani to mail ubuntu-devel about accelerometer plans
[16:25] <meetingology> ACTION: jani to mail ubuntu-devel about accelerometer plans
[16:25] <xnox> janimo: yes please.
[16:25] <xnox> janimo: we don't have images for those devices yet, but I'd like usb-creator to know about them already.
[16:26] <xnox> (.img + .bootimg style images that is)
[16:26] <janimo> xnox, one thing I remember is that both nexus 7 and galaxy report different USB IDs depending on whether they booted in recovery mode or regular android
[16:26] <ogra_> note though that the phone installation functions differently from our installation procedure
[16:26] <xnox> janimo: currently I trigger on two ID_MODEL_IDs
[16:26] <kyleN> ogra, when appropriate, I have a short topic.
[16:26] <ogra_> (i assume we can adjust that though)
[16:26] <ogra_> kyleN, well, we dont have an agenda atm. feel free to just start when its quiet
[16:27] <ogra_> i.e. now :)
[16:27] <xnox> ogra_: yeah. =/ given enough demand we can add additional types of flashing. the *.bootimg and *.img backend took only have a day to code in the end.
[16:27] <kyleN> Before the holidays there was some discussion of using valgrind to find memory leaks and thereby improve Ubuntu for resource constained devices.
[16:27] <kyleN> I worked on apport-valgrind, which was released into raring as part of apport.
[16:28] <ogra_> nice !
[16:28] <kyleN> This allows you to run valgrind for an executable (to find memory leaks) while first populating a temporary directory with available debug symbols for the executable, which makes the resulting valgrind log file more complete and useful (because more symbols names are filled in, making the stack traces clearer)
[16:28] <kyleN> Alex Chiang submitted a needed patch for this that landed in valgrind.
[16:28] <kyleN> and in Ubuntu/R
[16:28] <kyleN> This is a first step. There are many aspects to this. I started a blog to cover some of this: http://kylenubuntu.blogspot.com/
[16:28] <ogra_> you need to blog about that, that extends far beyond nexus7
[16:28] <kyleN> I expect to add more blog posts soon on this topic.
[16:29] <kyleN> DONE
[16:29] <ogra_> and sounds helpful everywhere
[16:29] <ogra_> time you get onto planet !
[16:29] <seb128> I was going to say
[16:29] <seb128> nobody is going to read those if they are not on planet
[16:29] <kyleN> do I need a rocket ship to get there? ;)
[16:29] <seb128> no offense to your blog popularity ;-)
[16:29] <ogra_> just ubuntu membership
[16:29] <janimo> BTW, nexus 7 testers please http://people.canonical.com/~jani/linux-image-3.1.10-8-nexus7_3.1.10-8.21_armhf.deb
[16:30] <kyleN> ack
[16:30] <ogra_> note that this will break your touchscreen :P
[16:30] <janimo> for me this deb fixes sound on boot without having to do a suspend. I'd like other opinions too
[16:30] <janimo> well log in via ssh and install http://paste.ubuntu.com/1570120/ over /usr/bin/acceld :)
[16:31] <ogra_> janimo, is that need ? i would just drop the "Rotatet "right"" from xorg.conf
[16:31] <ogra_> *Rotate
[16:32] <ogra_> anyway, the current nx7 looks pretty good already ... we have one big showstopper bug left though
[16:32] <ogra_> bug 1068994
[16:32]  * ogra_ pokes the bot
[16:33] <janimo> ogra_, it needs to correlate xrandr names to xinput rotation matrix. The latter get shifted with the kernel 90 degree rotation
[16:33] <janimo> so it is needed
[16:33] <ogra_> and after the fix for portrait mode i must say that i clearly suspect compiz to be at fault, not xorg
[16:33] <ogra_> if the bug occurs to me, i can still hit the ubuntu key on onboard to switch apps, and i can interact withj the app content
[16:34] <ogra_> what doesnt take any input are window frames, panel and launcher
[16:34] <ogra_> all therr are compiz
[16:34] <ogra_> *three
[16:34] <ogra_> so i start to suspect compiz itself has an issue here
[16:35] <ogra_> what we are also still missing is bluetooth
[16:35] <ogra_> is cyphermox around ?
[16:36] <ogra_> the quantal image has some hacks to push the binary firmware into the driver when BT starts ... we dont have that in raring atm (and i'm not sure we want it)
[16:37] <ogra_> so it would be good to know the plans here, can we get it to work without the binary bits, if not, ho do we integrate them properly
[16:37] <ogra_> *how
[16:37] <ogra_> seb128, could you forward that question ?
[16:38] <seb128> ogra_, sure
[16:38] <ogra_> (probably also better discussed by mail=
[16:38] <seb128> yeah, sounds like something for ubuntu-devel@ as well
[16:38] <ogra_> what else did i miss ?
[16:38] <seb128> is anyone working on collecting the valgrind datas from the community?
[16:38] <ogra_> do we have anyone from QA  around ?
[16:39] <ogra_> plars, ?
[16:39] <seb128> what about optimizing processes running?
[16:39] <ogra_> oh, definitely
[16:39] <seb128> who?
[16:39] <seb128> I want to start organizing those better
[16:39] <seb128> so I want to get everybody in touch
[16:40] <ogra_> how about we make a task table and people can pick from it ...
[16:40] <lool> Gema and Paul Larson both mentioned activities related to collecting smem output in QA labs
[16:40] <seb128> we have started doing a table with lool
[16:40] <ogra_> unclaimed tasks will then be forcefully assigned
[16:40] <seb128> we need to publish it
[16:40] <ogra_> great
[16:40] <seb128> we have also some blueprints
[16:40] <ogra_> lool, yeah, i know plars wroks on nexus stuff
[16:40] <ogra_> (thus the ping)
[16:41] <plars> ogasawara: hi, I'm here
[16:41] <ogra_> i implemented preseeding support for him last week
[16:41] <plars> grr
[16:41] <ogra_> hehe
[16:41] <plars> ogasawara: sorry
[16:41] <plars> ogra_: yes, I'm here, but in about 30 different irc windows at the moment :)
[16:41] <ogra_> plars, so anything you want to tell us about nx7 work ?
[16:42] <ogra_> seb128, for collecting stuff from the community it sounds like balloons might be the right guy
[16:42] <plars> ogra_: just that I got your email about preseeding and I am anxious to try it, but I was off yesterday and haven't gotten to it yet today
[16:42] <plars> ogra_: assuming that works, we should be able to automate installs on the nexus in the lab and have automated tests running pretty soon
[16:42] <ogra_> ok, i'm not sure it works 100% yet, please bug me if there are issues
[16:43] <seb128> ogra_, ok, I think I will try to draft a "status update/summary/how we organize a bit better going forward" email early next week
[16:43] <seb128> ogra_, I will run the draft through you, lool and some others before sending
[16:43] <plars> ogra_: if you have an example preseed or script for munging it into the image already, that would streamline things considerably
[16:43] <ogra_> seb128, great, lets turn that (or parts of it) into our meeting agenda
[16:44] <ogra_> plars, heh, no, i dont, i used to abuse tobin as a preseed stoirage in the past :)
[16:44] <ogra_> oh, btw, do we have anyone from the kernel team here ?
[16:45] <ogra_> cking used to work on power management on the nx7
[16:45] <ogra_> and it got really really bad since we switched to raring
[16:45] <janimo> ogra_, it's the same kernel though right?
[16:46] <ogra_> from battery values <50% on i get a battery popup every second until the device shuts down (3-4h long)+
[16:46] <ogra_> janimo, nope, it was re-based on the later android release
[16:46] <janimo> ah right
[16:46] <ogra_> i got these issues since the first raring kernel landed
[16:46] <janimo> so a quantal kernel has no such issues ?
[16:47] <Aeefire> hey guys.
[16:47] <janimo> could be a raring userland policy bug as well
[16:47] <cking> ogra_, has a bug been filed so we can track that?
[16:47] <ogra_> percentage and time are totally off all the time and i get weird power messages on charging or after a few hours of usage
[16:47] <ogra_> cking, sure
[16:47] <ogra_> janimo, yeah, could be, i also noticed that upower shows an additional usb charger
[16:47] <ogra_> i dont think that was there in quantal
[16:49] <ogra_> cking, bug 1093543
[16:49] <ogra_> (sorry, tootk a moment to find it)
[16:50] <cking> ogra_, thanks, i'll look at that one
[16:50] <ogra_> great
[16:50] <ogra_> i think we talked about it before btw
[16:50] <ogra_> but didnt find any cause
[16:51] <ogra_> ok ...
[16:51] <ogra_> anyone from the community around with questions etc ?
[16:51] <ogra_> doesnt look like
[16:52] <ogra_> doesn anyone want to bring something up before i close ?
[16:52] <ogra_> going once
[16:52] <seb128> ogra_, do we know if the pointer/grab lock issue is being worked or making any progress?
[16:52] <seb128> it's pretty much a blocker if you want to use the nexus
[16:52] <ogra_> seb128, tjaalton sent it upstream
[16:52] <ogra_> seb128, its not as bad as you think
[16:52] <seb128> is it just sitting there or did somebody pick itup?
[16:53] <ogra_> i use the nx7 all day, if you use it carefully you can get through with only having the issue once a day
[16:53] <seb128> lol
[16:53] <ogra_> i think it rots upstream
[16:53] <seb128> "if you use it carefully"
[16:53] <tjaalton> seb128: upstream knows about it, pinged him earlier this week but no new patches to try
[16:53] <janimo> ogasawara, are you using a mouse?
[16:53] <seb128> like explain to users to not use the indicators? ;-)
[16:53] <ogra_> there was quite some activity in the beginning
[16:53] <ogra_> but that died
[16:53] <ogra_> janimo, indeed not :)
[16:54] <ogra_> tjaalton, did you try with the latest fixes, its really only compiz that freezes
[16:54] <stgraber> "if you make sure not to use the touchscreen on your tablet, you're fine"
[16:54] <tjaalton> ogra_: hm, no
[16:54] <ogra_> tjaalton, i can interact with everything else on the desktop just fine
[16:54] <tjaalton> oh
[16:54] <tjaalton> sweet
[16:54] <ogra_> just not panel, launcher and *window frames*
[16:54] <seb128> lol, because who needs to use a panel or launcher? ;-)
[16:55] <ogra_> but firefox content, terminal, onboard etc work fine
[16:55] <ogra_> seb128, well, if i just read a long article in FF, all i need is the grab'n drag extension to work ;)
[16:56] <ogra_> and switching apps works fine via onboard (_hit the ubuntu key, pick the number of your app)
[16:56] <ogra_> tjaalton, so i think it would be worth taking a second look with focus on compiz
[16:57] <ogra_> 3 min left ... anything else ?
[16:58] <tjaalton> ogra_: update the lp bug and I'll ask peter again where the bug is. the previous logs we had did show that the grab state was fooked, but.. we'll see
[16:58] <ogra_> tjaalton, well, there were a bunch of issues with input fixed in the last xorg upload
[16:58] <ogra_> so i would suspect we might have cleared the xorg side now
[16:58] <tjaalton> oh the patch bryce put back in? yeah sorry about that, it was a bad merge by me :)
[16:59] <tjaalton> mistakenly dropped a patch that fixed the rotation
[16:59] <ogra_> well, i think bryce and danien van vugt added patches
[16:59] <tjaalton> when merging new bugfix release
[16:59] <ogra_> *daniel
[16:59] <tjaalton> xserver only got this one back
[16:59] <tjaalton> also a point release before that
[16:59] <ogra_> well, todays raring  works pretty well for me
[17:00] <ogra_> apart from the compiz hang
[17:00] <ogra_> no other input issues here
[17:00] <ogra_> ok, time is up
[17:00] <ogra_> going once
[17:00] <ogra_> going twice
[17:00] <ogra_> #endmeeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jan 25 17:00:41 2013 UTC.
[17:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-25-16.02.moin.txt
[17:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-25-16.02.html
[17:00] <tjaalton> could be that the apps that are working are using XI1 and it's the multitouch-aware clients (XI2) that are busted
[17:00] <ogra_> thanks everyone, see you next week :)
[17:00] <kyleN> cheers
[17:01] <seb128> thanks
[17:01] <ogra_> tjaalton, yeah
[17:01] <tjaalton> I'll verify that next week
[17:01] <tjaalton> .au is well past beer-o-clock already
[17:01] <tjaalton> :)
[17:08] <ogra_> tjaalton, oh, are you at LCA ?
[17:11] <tjaalton> ogra_: no, but upstream is from there
[17:11] <ogra_> heh, ok
[17:59] <Pajn> Just checking, the ubuntu-tv meeting will start soon, right?
[18:00] <mhall119> Pajn: yes
[18:00] <Pajn> thanks!
[18:00] <mhall119> tgm4883: whenever you're ready
[18:03] <tgm4883> I'm here
[18:03] <tgm4883> bobweaver, are you here too?
[18:04] <mhall119> he may not be here for this one
[18:05] <tgm4883> #startmeeting Ubuntu-TV Community Meeting
[18:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan 25 18:05:06 2013 UTC.  The chair is tgm4883. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:05] <tgm4883> #chair tgm4883 mhall119
[18:05] <meetingology> Current chairs: mhall119 tgm4883
[18:05] <tgm4883> So since this is our first community meeting, it's a bit unstructured
[18:06] <tgm4883> #topic Community Questions
[18:06] <tgm4883> Are there any questions from anyone in the community?
[18:06] <steve_fi> I have a few, can just fire them all out?
[18:06] <tgm4883> fire away
[18:07] <tgm4883> I'll make subtopics for them, so it's well organized
[18:07] <steve_fi> according to the wiki, you still need unity 2d to get UbuntuTV to work, but it seems that Ubuntu is moving from that ... is there any plans to support it in unity3d any time soon?
[18:08] <tgm4883> #subtopic according to the wiki, you still need unity 2d to get UbuntuTV to work, but it seems that Ubuntu is moving from that ... is there any plans to support it in unity3d any time soon?
[18:08] <tgm4883> hmm, I'm assuming that meetingology got that
[18:08] <tgm4883> I've got no input on that question. mhall119?
[18:08] <mhall119> steve_fi: yes, since last year the efforts have been focused on re-writing everything in Nux and Unity 3d, but it's not been a very easy process
[18:09] <tgm4883> AFAIK, bobweaver works on most of that. Unfortunately he isn't here
[18:10] <mhall119> yeah, he's been the only one working on it
[18:10] <tgm4883> jhop said he'd be a little late as well, although IDK if he knows any more
[18:10] <mhall119> various issues with the compexity of compix and the lack of good Nux documentation has been holding it back
[18:10] <tgm4883> lastly, I also pinged willcooke about the meeting, but didn't hear back
[18:10] <steve_fi> ah ok, next is just does anyone know if the current build of UbuntuTV works at all on Raring?
[18:11] <tgm4883> #subtopic does anyone know if the current build of UbuntuTV works at all on Raring?
[18:11] <tgm4883> I'd say it's doubtful. But again, a question for bobweaver
[18:11] <mhall119> I think bobweaver has the unity2d version working in Quantal now, and available in PPA that makes it easier to install and try
[18:11] <bobweaver> steve_fi,  no I or at least I dont.  also the phone uses qml so once the phone code is released then there is that
[18:11] <tgm4883> o/
[18:11] <bobweaver> everything that I have is 12.04
[18:11] <steve_fi> ah ok, thanks for the information!
[18:11] <bobweaver> yo
[18:12] <mhall119> hi bobweaver
[18:12] <bobweaver> hello
[18:12] <tgm4883> steve_fi, more questions?
[18:13] <steve_fi> Nope, that's all for now thanks
[18:13] <tgm4883> ok
[18:13] <tgm4883> anyone else have any questions?
[18:13] <tgm4883> Lets move on to status updates, and we'll ask for questions again at the end
[18:14] <tgm4883> #topic Status Updates
[18:14] <tgm4883> bobweaver, any updates?
[18:15] <bobweaver> as far as ?
[18:15] <tgm4883> bobweaver, anything you want to update
[18:16] <bobweaver> nope maybe that I will be just doing things(coding) for fun and the "heck" of it . until the phone goes public. maybe I have a lot of personal things going on
[18:17] <tgm4883> ok
[18:17] <tgm4883> mhall119, anything to update
[18:18] <mhall119> no, but hopefully we'll have more to report once the Phone code is public and we can start getting an idea of how it will integrate with desktop and TV
[18:18] <tgm4883> ok
[18:18] <tgm4883> DVR/Guide update
[18:19] <tgm4883> I made a large push this week with the guide scope. I'd say it is 95% done.
[18:19] <tgm4883> I still need to get a guide lens written, as I'm still using the videos lens for it
[18:19] <tgm4883> It also needs packaged
[18:20] <tgm4883> I'll need to figure out how to package a python library as well. The library for accessing the mythtv services is probably only 30% done, but it's the 30% we need :)
[18:21] <mhall119> tgm4883: I can try and help with that
[18:21] <tgm4883> 100% done would mean supporting everything the services API allows, but we won't use most of that for Ubuntu TV so we can consider that portion complete
[18:21] <tgm4883> mhall119, that would be very helpful :)
[18:21] <tgm4883> I was going to do a video this morning showing off the features, but that didn't happen
[18:21] <tgm4883> I will do one soon though
[18:22] <tgm4883> now that the guide scope is mostly finished
[18:22] <tgm4883> #action tgm4883 to make video showing mythtv features
[18:22] <meetingology> ACTION: tgm4883 to make video showing mythtv features
[18:22] <tgm4883> The DVR scope is as it was last week. 95% done
[18:23] <tgm4883> The last 5% on both scopes will come after packaging and user testing
[18:23] <tgm4883> #action tgm4883 mhall119 package mythtvservices library and both mythtv scopes
[18:23] <meetingology> ACTION: tgm4883 mhall119 package mythtvservices library and both mythtv scopes
[18:23] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  what are you targetin for that lens ?
[18:24] <tgm4883> bobweaver, what do you mean?
[18:24] <tgm4883> what version?
[18:24] <bobweaver> version of Ubuntu ?
[18:24] <tgm4883> well, we'll need an update from mhall119 on that
[18:24] <tgm4883> mhall119, did that bug get sorted?
[18:24] <mhall119> tgm4883: the gobject dee stuff?
[18:25] <tgm4883> yea
[18:25] <tgm4883> bug 1096708
[18:25] <mhall119> I pinged some folks about it, but I guess they haven't looked into it yet
[18:25] <tgm4883> bobweaver, to answer your questions, the scopes currently work on 12.10 and above. If that bug gets fixed, then it will work on 12.04 and above
[18:27] <tgm4883> For anyone unaware, Unity lens/scopes work across platforms. So these lens/scopes I'm writing can be used in a regular Ubuntu Unity Desktop
[18:28] <tgm4883> That's about all the update I have
[18:28] <tgm4883> Any other updates from anyone?
[18:29] <tgm4883> Guess not
[18:29] <tgm4883> In that case, I'm going to open it back up for questions
[18:29] <tgm4883> #topic Community questions/comments/concerns
[18:29] <mhall119> thanks tgm4883!
[18:29] <tgm4883> If anyone has any questions/comments/concerns/ideas/etc, now is the time to shout them out
[18:32] <zuric> Hi, what the status of Unity 3D portage ?
[18:33] <mhall119> zuric: stalled for now, we're waiting to see what is going ot happen with the QML Phone shell
[18:33] <tgm4883> zuric, that was answered earlier and will be available in the logs. But a short recap... what mhall119 said
[18:33] <zuric> ok thanks
[18:34] <Pajn> Is any community effort wanted at this time?
[18:34] <mhall119> Pajn: absolutely
[18:34] <steve_fi> is help wanted on a specific version of Ubuntu?
[18:35] <steve_fi> with regards to testing and submitting bugs?
[18:35] <tgm4883> Community help is always wanted. I'd say we're at a point where we can actually accept help now
[18:35] <tgm4883> previously, we weren't really in a position to accept community help, as there wasn't a whole lot to test
[18:36] <mhall119> steve_fi: there isn't a whole lot to test atm, you can try tgm4883's MythTV scopes if you have a MythTV backend
[18:36] <tgm4883> at least for me, I'll get the mythtv stuff packaged this week with mhall119's help
[18:37] <bobweaver> for every one that would like to try out the newest code that I have been making you can it is built almost daily
[18:37] <bobweaver> the ppa is u2t
[18:37] <bobweaver> I will get link
[18:37] <bobweaver> https://launchpad.net/~u2t/+archive/bleedingedge
[18:37] <mhall119> also anybody who wants to hack on that
[18:37] <mhall119> it's Qt/QML right?
[18:38] <bobweaver> that in no way is going to be the UBuntu TV but I am sure that there is going to be things that are intergrated
[18:38] <bobweaver> yeah that is unity 2d
[18:38] <bobweaver> there is all sorta beta code up in there
[18:38] <mhall119> so anybody who wants to experiment with some UI stuff, you can use that branch
[18:38] <bobweaver> but that is like a playground
[18:39] <bobweaver> yeah I have not pushed branch
[18:39] <bobweaver> latest things that I have done to that are as follows
[18:40] <bobweaver> made so one can switch launcher to rght or left, added previews , made new lens view and a full dbus settings changer
[18:40] <bobweaver> add welcome screen mock up (what I think is going to be phone )
[18:41] <bobweaver> that will be nice to look at
[18:41] <bobweaver> but if there is anyone that wants to write into 3d have at it But I want nothing to do with NUX or compiz besides in unity2d spread
[18:42] <bobweaver> there is alot things that need to be know about the phone only time will tell
[18:43] <bobweaver> but if qml will be real easy to tie in
[18:44] <bobweaver> but if anyone wants to hack at that with me have at it.
[18:45] <bobweaver> I gotta run thanks mhall119  and tgm4883  and everyone else.  sorry about early this week (I have a lot going on (personal))
[18:45] <tgm4883> If anyone has any questions/comments/concerns/ideas/etc, now is the time to shout them out
[18:51] <tgm4883> ok, since we're getting toward the end of our time and nobody has asked any more questions I'm going to wrap this up in about 2 minutes
[18:51] <tgm4883> so if anyone has any questions/comments/concerns/ideas/etc, now is the time to shout them out
[18:53] <tgm4883> #endmeeting
[18:53] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jan 25 18:53:17 2013 UTC.
[18:53] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-25-18.05.moin.txt
[18:53] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-25-18.05.html
[22:13] <solarcloud_3srcn> Guess there's no App Review Board Meeting at 10pm till 11pm UTC today ...


[16:57] <sakrecoer[b]> <OvenWerks "徒 𝖘𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔 セット: perhaps try se"> thanks OvenWerks ! :) When ffado modules are in use, i have no options under Jack Master Device, neither under USB-device...
[17:02] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer[b]: And?
[17:03] <OvenWerks> If you change the device driver from firewire to alsa that should change
[17:03] <OvenWerks> device driver = JACK backend
[17:04] <OvenWerks> JACK can only have one JACK master device (unless a multi is set up)
[17:05] <OvenWerks> so being able to set up alsa devices while using a firewire device is not possible. However, extra devices would still work to add alsa devices
[17:52] <teetch> Hi, I just downloaded Ubuntu Studio and I cant find where the sorftware download market is
[17:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> !yymm | teetch: Which version?
[17:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> !yy.mm
[17:56] <teetch> 20.04 I think
[17:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> teetch: You said you just downloaded it. Please confirm.
[17:57] <teetch> Im trying to find the version number
[17:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> It would tell you in the .iso file name you downloaded.
[17:58] <teetch> 20.04.1


[03:04] <bluesabre> if anybody is interested in checking out the next menulibre and looking for any annoying bugs... https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/ubuntu/daily :)
[03:04] <Unit193> Yer up late.
[03:05] <bluesabre> trying not to be
[03:05] <bluesabre> :D
[03:05] <bluesabre> summary of changes: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master/revision/290#NEWS
[03:09] <bluesabre> tomorrow I'll start poking folks for lo-style-elementary as an alternative to tango/human themes
[03:09] <bluesabre> bed time now
[07:46] <ochosi> cjbayliss: not sure, that is not a very standard location for such a button
[07:46] <ochosi> morning everyone
[07:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: i suggest we link all the bugs you tackle with the new menulibre release to the bugs blueprint, that way we can more meaningfully trace what happened during the cycle
[07:47] <ochosi> linked that one you marked "fix committed" yesterday
[07:49] <ochosi> oh, and a few others :)
[08:24] <ochosi> knome: btw, for the community funded server space for our tracker, i could approach david planella again (you remember, my affirmed/rejected application for community donations fund)
[08:25] <ochosi> lemme know what you had in mind there
[08:35] <knome> sure
[08:35] <knome> basically, i had nothing in specific in mind there
[08:36] <knome> remind you, hardware/servers for me are "i don't care as long as it works"
[08:36] <knome> practically, i need a server that can do php, sqlite/mysql and cron
[08:37] <knome> and ssh...
[08:37] <knome> :P
[08:38] <knome> it can be a webhotel-like setup - as long as it does what is mentioned above
[08:38] <Unit193> Bummer, there goes that.  I only have telnet.
[08:38] <knome> and what comes from cron, it'd better be unrestricted than "you can do one cron job a day"
[08:39] <knome> be back in 15-30
[08:42] <ochosi> knome: right, but i meant whether you had any plans wrt financing, so i know whether it makes sense to ask david. also an estimated annual cost would be good to have before i get in touch with him
[08:43] <ochosi> fwiw, the automated testing initiative by nicholas skaggs and others will be community-hosted too (i don't think they have settled on a provider yet, but it's clear it's not going to be canonical-based)
[08:45] <ochosi> not sure whether there is any potential (or wish or openness or... benefit) for cooperation on any side
[08:59] <knome> i'm sure we can cooperate, but otoh, i don't know what the performance would be on that, considering it would make sense to take up all resources when testing
[09:00] <knome> pleia2 and Unit193 would likely have better ideas of hosting costs (outside finland), but it's likely to be less than 100 euros per year anyway
[09:00] <knome> even if you had a small virtual server completely controlled by yourself
[09:01] <knome> what i'm trying to say is that i don't know enough of the options to pick and ultimately, i don't care :]
[09:03] <ochosi> okeydokey :)
[09:11] <knome> i guess at the same time, there is this question whether the whole xubuntu.org domain should be hosted on that server
[09:11] <knome> maybe not
[09:11] <knome> because i don't think the SSL stuff is so easy then
[09:11]  * knome sighs and shrugs
[09:12] <ochosi> i guess if we get our own hosting, the question arises whether we want to set up our own (less laggy) wiki
[09:14] <knome> yep, i've been thinking about that too
[09:15] <knome> anything that does under the "dev." subdomain would be fine with that hosting
[09:15] <knome> to keep some kind of guidelines for the scope
[09:15] <knome> then it's also easier to rationalize
[09:15] <ochosi> i really wouldn't mind getting that stuff more integrated in our website through that
[09:16] <knome> in what way would that be?
[09:16] <ochosi> currently even the general color-scheme (and i know that sounds petty) suggests the stuff on the wiki is somehow different
[09:16] <knome> sure
[09:16] <ochosi> i dunno, e.g. by keeping the header of the website even in the wiki
[09:16] <knome> if we set up our own wiki, then it definitely should be integrated with at least the devel area
[09:16] <ochosi> not so much "open link in new tab" feeling
[09:18] <knome> if/when we set this up
[09:18] <knome> we might want to consider another menu bar for the website
[09:18] <knome> which would have links like
[09:18] <knome> website  developers  launchpad  ...
[09:18] <knome> whatever
[09:18] <knome> and then integrate them all with that
[09:18] <knome> well, we can't integrate lp with that
[09:18] <knome> but anyway...
[09:19] <knome> because i don't think the same idea for layouting goes for the devel area than the user facing website
[09:19] <knome> or practically: the same theme won't work well with both
[09:20] <knome> which is why i haven't tried to mimic the website theme on the tracker
[09:22] <ochosi> hm, yeah you're prolly right there
[09:23] <ochosi> but then again, the tracker feels so much more "xubuntu" than the ubuntu wiki or the old tracker or lp ftm...
[09:23] <ochosi> also, it's just really nicely balanced, +1 on the colorscheme
[09:24] <knome> of course
[09:24] <knome> thanks
[09:24] <knome> i mean, sure, i'll try to make it more xubuntu, that's for sure
[09:25] <knome> and if/when we set up the developer area (with wiki perhaps), i'll likely take even more time to make it look integrated
[09:25] <knome> add a xubuntu logo etc...
[09:26] <knome> didn't want that stuff to take time/motivation away from getting the features right
[09:26] <ochosi> yeah, totally makes sense
[09:26] <ochosi> (and obviously paid off)
[09:32] <knome> ffff, 20+°C here
[09:32] <knome> not my favorite
[09:33] <dkessel> hmmm, i frequently have thunar crashing after renaming files (in wily) - is that a known "feature"?
[09:33] <ochosi> dkessel: doesn't sound like one
[09:34] <ochosi> but is it reproducible on v?
[09:34] <dkessel> do i have V? :)
[09:34] <ochosi> i dunno :) do you? (v for vivid, not vendetta)
[09:34] <dkessel> i am renaming files in a way that they will change order in the folder afterwards
[09:34] <dkessel> no i am only running trusty and wily
[09:35] <ochosi> have you tried to use the same thunar version on trusty (e.g. via PPA)
[09:35] <dkessel> the rename is successful, but the thunar window just disappears afterwards. no crash notification either
[09:35] <ochosi> (just to exclude that it's a bug in gvfs or something like that)
[09:35] <ochosi> heh, so that's why you said "feature" :)
[09:36] <dkessel> mh. not yet. got to go back to work. taking a note to investigate further...
[09:36] <ochosi> thanks!
[10:59] <bluesabre> thanks ochosi
[10:59] <ochosi> np
[11:00] <ochosi> felt it would be valuable so i just went ahead and did it ;)
[11:00] <bluesabre> :D
[11:00] <ochosi> also, i like to feed the tracker now that i enjoy it
[11:00] <bluesabre> I'm working on getting VMs up for each desktop environment to test with... just to make sure that 2.0.7 is that last 2.0.x release :)
[11:01] <ochosi> :)
[11:01] <ochosi> sounds awesome
[11:01] <ochosi> i wonder btw whether there's any clear rationale as to why e.g. gedit has the "new" button with a label in the headerbar
[11:01] <ochosi> instead of just using the document-new icon
[11:02] <ochosi> guess i'd have to skim the HIG a bit
[11:02] <bluesabre> probably
[11:02] <bluesabre> I've noticed that gnome apps present their headerbars all a bit differently... so if I had to guess I'd say the rules are not too specific there
[11:03] <ochosi> hmm
[11:03] <ochosi> soo....
[11:04] <ochosi> one takeaway for me is that headerbar controls should be dynamic
[11:04] <ochosi> i.e. change or update depending on the selection/view
[11:04] <ochosi> so i guess it doesn't make sense to show the undo/redo buttons initially
[11:04] <ochosi> especially when there's nothing to undo/redo
[11:04] <ochosi> and no "delete" button when nothing is selected
[11:04] <ochosi> that one should only appear when it would work
[11:05] <bluesabre> I'm not a huge fan of dynamic controls
[11:05] <ochosi> seems like the HIG suggests not to put insensitive items in the headerbar normally
[11:05] <bluesabre> imagine if icons appeared and disappeared in libreoffice
[11:05] <bluesabre> :D
[11:05] <ochosi> yeah, obviously menulibre!=libreoffice
[11:05] <ochosi> libreoffice with headerbar is quite unthinkable
[11:05] <bluesabre> indeed
[11:06] <ochosi> btw, the "new" button also is a label in the HIG: https://developer.gnome.org/hig/stable/header-bars.html.en
[11:06] <ochosi> that page is not a bad read tbh
[11:07] <bluesabre> ah, there's not really multiple views in menulibre though
[11:07] <bluesabre> it's always in editor view
[11:09] <bluesabre> gedit's open button https://i.imgur.com/9exSoYk.png
[11:09] <bluesabre> the new tab button next to it is the "new" button
[11:11] <bluesabre> I can see hiding/showing the delete button, but any other button would be revealed if the app was used at all
[11:14] <ochosi> right
[11:15] <ochosi> the "new" button somehow makes sense as a combobox btw
[11:15] <ochosi> like in gedit
[11:15] <ochosi> since you open a popup with multiple options
[11:19] <ochosi> instead of executing a single action
[11:19] <bluesabre> yeah, makes sense
[11:20] <bluesabre> don't want the headerbar to become too cluttered though
[11:20] <bluesabre> app icon, app controls, search bar, window controls
[11:20] <bluesabre> it starts getting a bit messy
[11:22] <bluesabre> but really, that'd only be an extra button's width, so I shouldn't whine :)
[11:23] <bluesabre> I'll make that change later today (unless you want to go ahead and play with it)
[11:25] <ochosi> :)
[11:26] <ochosi> dunno, i guess the current menu would have to be converted to a popover for this to really work, no?
[11:26] <ochosi> also, what's the rationale behind the label next to the delete icon?
[11:26] <bluesabre> ochosi: no particular reason, I just copied geary's design on that
[11:27] <bluesabre> I'll probably drop that label
[11:27] <bluesabre> it's fairly useless :D
[11:27] <bluesabre> and yeah, the plan is to replace the menu with a popover
[11:27] <bluesabre> make things more consistent
[11:28] <ochosi> right, i'd rather use the label for the "new" combobox tbh ;)
[11:28] <bluesabre> mhm
[11:30] <ochosi> anyway, can probably poke that part a bit
[11:30] <ochosi> what's the "refresh" button good for?
[11:31] <ochosi> and, shouldn't that really go into the menu or is that something ppl would use regularly enough to take up so much space?
[11:31] <ochosi> oh wow, that's "revert"?
[11:33] <bluesabre> yeah, that's revert
[11:33] <bluesabre> is there a better standard icon for revert?
[11:33] <ochosi> i'll take a look
[11:33] <ochosi> but refresh really doesn't work for me
[11:34] <ochosi> what's the exact usecase though?
[11:34] <ochosi> resetting a complete desktop file?
[11:34] <bluesabre> yes
[11:34] <bluesabre> undo all my changes to last saved state
[11:35] <ochosi> humm
[11:35] <bluesabre> document-revert-symbolic?
[11:35] <ochosi> yeah
[11:35] <ochosi> that sounds ok
[11:35] <ochosi> but i hope that doesn't conflict too badly with "undo"
[11:36] <ochosi> somehow i'd rather have that somewhere else tbh
[11:36] <ochosi> idea: make the "undo" a combobox as well with either the previous steps listed (like history) and as a last step "revert to initial state" or something
[11:36] <ochosi> too much work?
[11:37] <bluesabre> probably
[11:37] <ochosi> :)
[11:37] <bluesabre> I have the history stored as a stack, but it would be ugly to do something like that
[11:37] <ochosi> or make it a combobox and say "go back 1 step" and "go back to step 1" :D
[11:37] <bluesabre> ew ew ew
[11:38] <bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/C8EtKbA.png
[11:38] <ochosi> hehe
[11:38]  * ochosi likes to appal bluesabre
[11:39] <ochosi> right, that icon is much better
[11:40] <ochosi> what is somehow fun is that the "move up" and "-down" buttons are also affecting the same items like the buttons in the headerbar, but they're in a totally different place :)
[11:40] <ochosi> then again, pushing all of this to the inline toolbar is probably fugly
[11:40] <ochosi> btw, where are you standing on flipping the switch back for gtk overlay scrollbars? still no likey with greybird's better theming?
[11:41] <bluesabre> I'll have to take a look again
[11:41] <bluesabre> are the mini-scrollbars transparent?
[11:41] <ochosi> it'd be best for you to try yourself
[11:41] <ochosi> i can screenshot them, then again i guess handson is better
[11:42] <bluesabre> I'll test it tonight
[11:42] <bluesabre> re: move icons, the context is slightly different, editing the menu as opposed to the launcher
[11:42] <ochosi> greybird1.6 already should have the theming for it
[11:43] <bluesabre> right
[11:44] <ochosi> so flipping the switch should be enough to test immediately
[11:44] <ochosi> in wily
[11:44] <bluesabre> yup
[11:44] <bluesabre> just moving quickly this morning to get ready for work
[11:44] <bluesabre> :D
[11:44] <ochosi> :)
[11:44] <ochosi> i think i'll do a new greybird release soon btw
[11:45] <ochosi> i guess no progress on getting shimmer-themes back under our umbrella
[11:45] <ochosi> i might actually try to get the CSD shadow to match the xfwm4 shadow more
[11:45] <ochosi> that's one last thing that bugs me
[11:46] <bluesabre> :)
[11:47] <bluesabre> committed the revert icon
[11:47] <ochosi> k nice
[11:53] <flocculant> knome: thanks for pinging that mail from Adam to the list
[11:54] <flocculant> dkessel: if that crash on rename is a feature - then I'm missing it
[12:03] <ochosi> bluesabre: oh meh, changing that to a combobox is not that easy, that's a menu...
[12:05] <ochosi> pleia2, knome: about hosting the xubuntu tracker somewhere community-funded, i have talked to dpm about that briefly today and he said that if we were to apply for that, he'd +1 it and that he thinks this'd be great. so i guess our chances of getting the funding for the hosting are pretty good.
[12:06] <ochosi> pleia2: since you seem to be the hosting guru around here, what would you recommend? or can you just put together an offer for that at a company/provider you can recommend? i guess asking for ~100€ p.a. should be fine
[12:06] <ochosi> pleia2: would be great if you could get back to me on that so we can split the work into workitems somehow
[12:12] <bluesabre> ochosi: a combobox is probably not the right way to go either... we're not making a selection, but performing an action... right?
[12:12] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[12:13] <bluesabre> in the case of the combobox, it'd be difficult to create the same type of thing twice without resetting the combo... which just makes it a button
[12:26] <ochosi> right
[12:28] <ochosi> so what is it in gedit then?
[12:36] <pleia2> ochosi: I have capacity right now on the ubuntu-us.org server
[12:36] <pleia2> that's a linode that has been donated to the community
[12:37] <pleia2> I could also ask gandi.net to hook us up, but if I don't need to manage another system, I'd be happy :)
[12:38] <pleia2> if knome can get me his ssh key in the next 40 minutes, I can set up an account (otherwise airplanes all day)
[12:48]  * pleia2 sends msgs to knome
[12:49] <knome> pleia2, but you already have my ssh key...
[12:49] <pleia2> knome: I grabbed from launchpad :)
[12:49] <knome> yep
[12:49] <knome> thanks
[12:58] <ochosi> pleia2: oh ok, that sounds perfect as well!
[12:58] <ochosi> thanks for setting that up then! :)
[12:58] <pleia2> sure :)
[12:59] <ochosi> so is that pro bono or shall we apply for community funds still?
[13:00] <ochosi> knome, pleia2: also, dpm said they "generally recommend to host externally for more flexibility and to avoid blocking on Canonical IS"
[13:00] <pleia2> this is the server that runs ubuntu-us.org and a couple other state team blogs
[13:00] <ochosi> knome: in case you're still considering moving the x.org site as a whole
[13:00] <pleia2> gandi.net is super supportive and I have a contact over there, so they could likely give us a free VPS if we want one
[13:00] <knome> ochosi, yep, i still am
[13:01] <knome> pleia2, ^
[13:01] <pleia2> noted
[13:01] <knome> but heh, we just asked for SSL
[13:01] <knome> go us
[13:01] <ochosi> :>
[13:01] <pleia2> heh :)
[13:01] <knome> i don't know how *that* works out on external hosting
[13:01] <ochosi> well, live and learn ;)
[13:01] <ochosi> dunno, we can ask i guess
[13:02] <ochosi> or do you know anything about the ubuntu-us server and SSL?
[13:02] <knome> i mean
[13:02] <knome> the technical issues likely aren't the issue
[13:02] <knome> the social/funding issues might be
[13:02] <knome> or "how do we use a SSL certificate paid by canonical on a gandi hosted site" type of things
[13:02] <knome> but then i don't know much of that...
[13:03] <ochosi> i guess we can always ask
[13:03] <knome> does it echo in here?
[13:03] <ochosi> but if canonical encourages the community folks to move to external hosting...
[13:03] <ochosi> does it echo in here?
[13:03] <knome> :D
[13:04] <pleia2> we could also use community funding to pay for our own cert, they renew every year anyway so we wouldn't always need to use the associated private key that canonical may not wish to part with
[13:04] <knome> right, that's an option
[13:05] <ochosi> yeah
[13:05] <knome> right now i'm hungry and grumpy
[13:05] <ochosi> i guess dpm would be fine with that too
[13:05] <knome> but really, i'd just like somebody else to take care of this
[13:05] <knome> i can handle the migration from server to server
[13:06] <knome> and things associated with it
[13:06] <pleia2> I'd rather not volunteer to run a whole 'nother server right now ;)
[13:06] <knome> i understand that
[13:06] <ochosi> :)
[13:06] <pleia2> so we can chat about all that later
[13:06] <knome> yes, likely the best way to go
[13:06] <knome> let's let IS set up SSL
[13:06] <ochosi> shall we put it in a workitem though or throw it on the meeting agenda not to forget?
[13:06] <knome> and use this server for the tracker for now
[13:06] <knome> i can add a work item
[13:07] <ochosi> k, thx
[13:07] <ochosi> so basically this: /dev goes to ubuntu-us for the tracker, the rest remains where it is?
[13:07] <ochosi> or did you mean: migrate to ubuntu-us with x.org and everything that belongs to it and sort out SSL with IS?
[13:07] <knome> huh
[13:07] <knome> no
[13:07] <pleia2> just setting up tracker for now
[13:08] <knome> let's keep IS hosting for xubuntu.org for now
[13:08] <knome> and let them set up SSL there
[13:08] <knome> as requested
[13:08] <knome> then just move the tracker over the -us server
[13:08] <knome> and let dust settle
[13:08] <ochosi> ok, sounds ok to me
[13:12]  * pleia2 wanders over to airplane
[13:12] <knome> have fun flying
[13:13] <ochosi> +1
[13:32] <knome> pleia2, once you're around, we'll need sqlite3 for php..
[13:36] <knome> bbl
[15:57] <flocculant> ochosi: upowerd crash coming back from lock, need that reported?
[18:19] <davmor2> Hey xubuntu people, are you guys taking part in the testing of 14.04.3? If so who is the best person to talk to please
[18:19] <knome> davmor2, flocculant
[18:19] <davmor2> flocculant: ah hello :)
[18:19] <davmor2> knome: thanks
[18:20] <knome> no problemo
[18:35] <davmor2> flocculant: you might want to join #ubuntu-release incase there are any critical issues you discover.
[18:47] <flocculant> davmor2: yep - I know about -release and will be sure to if there's a need. Actually only got 2 testers on .3 and not got any critical issues that have been seen or reported
[18:48] <jarnos> how can you log in to sessi
[18:48] <davmor2> flocculant: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/344/builds is the current 14.04.3 are they reporting their findings to daily still?
[18:49] <flocculant> 'they' are me and one other team member - he's US time and probably hasn't seen rebuild
[18:49] <jarnos> ..on after resume from suspend to RAM in the live session of the development xubuntu?
[18:50] <flocculant> jarnos: not sure - never seen the need to suspend a live session
[18:51] <davmor2> flocculant: ah okay cool :)
[18:51] <flocculant> just about to check them actually
[18:52] <flocculant> davmor2: they'll be marked on the tracker one way or the other tomorrow :)
[18:52] <flocculant> keep getting zsync issues ...
[18:52] <davmor2> flocculant: awesome thanks
[18:53] <davmor2> flocculant: the guy on ubuntu-gnome is saying the same
[18:53] <jarnos> flocculant, I know neither username nor password.
[18:53] <flocculant> jarnos: try xubuntu or Xubuntu and no password
[18:54] <flocculant> davmor2: that's zsyncing wily daily
[18:54] <jarnos> flocculant, thanks
[18:55] <flocculant> davmor2: our cdbuild log has for the last 2 days had "ssh: connect to host goldenapple.canonical.com port 22: Connection timed out"
[18:56] <flocculant> anyway - finished zsync now without error
[19:03] <ObrienDave> \o/
[19:36] <davmor2> flocculant: goldenapple appears to be dead so if you get that one it times out IS is informed so hopefully this will go away soonish
[19:37] <flocculant> davmor2: ok :)
[19:40] <ochosi> flocculant: upowerd crashes? i guess yeah, we should report that. not sure it's really our fault though
[19:41] <flocculant> ochosi: ok - I'll let apport do it's thing then
[19:43] <flocculant> ochosi: should have got a complete set of vm tests done shortly - I'll manage a couple of hardware ones by the morning - then not much more I can do for trusty .3
[19:45] <ochosi> nice, thanks flocculant
[19:45] <ochosi> sorry i haven't been able to test much myself, am usually out of the house during the day
[19:48] <flocculant> yep I know :)
[22:36] <bluesabre> evening all
[22:37] <knome> hello
[22:37] <ochosi> hey
[22:37] <ochosi> about to go to bed though
[22:37] <ochosi> so sorta "hi and bye" :)
[22:37] <knome> heh
[22:37] <knome> night ochosi
[22:37] <ochosi> LO 5.0 is available for testing from their PPA
[22:38] <ochosi> so all of those who use the iconset, please upgrade
[22:38] <ochosi> i've pushed a first fix to it today
[22:38] <ochosi> also, i'll be away all day tomorrow
[22:38] <ochosi> so hf everyone!
[22:38] <knome> you too
[22:39] <ochosi> ty
[22:50] <bluesabre> cool
[22:50] <bluesabre> thanks ochosi