[03:28] <Hobbsee> morning all
[03:29] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee!!!
[03:29] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:30] <Hobbsee> darn.  koffice ftbfs
[03:30] <Hobbsee> awww
[03:31] <Jucato> I'm not a geek, so I have no idea what that is all about :)
[03:32] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:32] <Hobbsee> silly Jucato :)
[03:32] <claydoh> me, neither, I think,l but I am a big Hitch hikers guide to the Galaxy fan
[03:32] <Jucato> I am neither :)
[03:32] <claydoh> Douglas Adams was a mad genius
[04:22] <DaSkreech> damn No manchicken -(
[04:23] <Hobbsee> :(
[04:23] <DaSkreech> FSF has gone nuts
[04:24] <DaSkreech> hi Hobbsee
[04:24] <DaSkreech> What's wrong?
[04:24] <Hobbsee> hey DaSkreech :)
[04:24] <Hobbsee> FSF?  no idea.  how's it gone nuts?
[04:28] <DaSkreech> they want google to release their code
[04:29] <Hobbsee> ahh
[04:29] <Jucato> er?
[04:30] <DaSkreech> that's kinda undermining a lot of stuff that's been built up
[04:30] <Jucato> "[The title is horribly off-base - makes it seem like the GPLv3 will require Google, et. al., to distribute their in-house modified libre software. The article makes it clear this is untrue, but the title is very misleading. - dcparris] " (from an LXer.com editor)
[04:30] <DaSkreech> they aren't mandating it
[04:31] <DaSkreech> well to be more specific Moglen wants them
[04:32] <DaSkreech> Stallman isn't for it
[04:32] <DaSkreech> didn't Moglen step down recently?
[04:34] <DaSkreech> and Google of all people...
[04:34] <DaSkreech> It's kinda boggling
[04:35] <DaSkreech> in other news :-) What would it take for disks to mount on the desktop in Kubuntu?
[04:36] <Jucato> don't they do that already automatically?
[04:38] <DaSkreech> Not on my box :-(
[04:39] <DaSkreech> hal does that right?
[04:41] <DaSkreech> how are you Jucato ?
[04:41] <DaSkreech> I missed my manners:)
[04:46] <Jucato> hi DaSkreech :)
[04:46] <Jucato> (was out)
[04:46] <DaSkreech> Oh out of the house
[04:46] <Jucato> DaSkreech: but it does mount them properly right?
[04:47] <DaSkreech> I read that as passed out...
[04:47] <DaSkreech> Jucato: If i mount them
[04:48] <Jucato> DaSkreech: right-click on the desktop -> COnfigure Desktop -> Behavior -> Device Icons ?
[04:48] <DaSkreech> Hmm I'll try that tomorrow
[04:54] <DaSkreech> I should play with those more I tragically ignore my desktop
[05:02] <n8k99> hi Jucato
[05:02] <Jucato> hi n8k99!!!! :)
[05:02] <n8k99> nice looking monitor!
[05:02] <Jucato> hehe thanks :)
[05:03] <DaSkreech> ?
[05:03] <n8k99> hehe
[05:04] <Jucato> hm... looks like I could survive Sans size 8 fonts :)
[05:05] <n8k99> you know now that i have a nifty monitor like you
[05:07] <Jucato> heheh :)
[05:07] <Jucato> I don't think my eyes can stand size 6 :D
[05:07] <n8k99> i only do it for code
[05:07] <Jucato> all the more reason :)
[05:08] <Jucato> omg this is just crazy :)
[05:16] <Hobbsee> anyone else in gutsy atm/
[05:16] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/116771 - anyone else get this?
[05:16] <Hobbsee> myself and freeflying dont, but it seems various people, including forums people are
[09:52] <mhb> good morning
[12:02] <marseillai> Riddell: i've make a debdiff for kopete gutsy with this patch http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Kopete+Emoticons+Manager?content=54968 build is ok and apps works fine now. i send it to you or I upload to revu ?
[12:03] <Riddell> marseillai: revu is good
[12:10] <marseillai> Riddell: is it possible to upload a debdiff or i have to upload kdenetwork_3.5.7-1ubuntu2_source.changes ?
[12:29] <Riddell> marseillai: you have to upload the whole thing
[12:30] <Riddell> marseillai: which is fine, I just download it, compare to the old version and upload.  saves having to apply the diff myself :)
[01:08] <marseillai> Riddell: i don't understand
[01:11] <marseillai> the patch is ok for gutsy and nothing more to do ?
[01:27] <mhb> got a link for everyone interested in kdesu features:
[01:27] <mhb> http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thenewupdaterjo1.png
[01:28] <mhb> too bad manchicken isn't around
[01:30] <mhb> Riddell: do you think the kdesu's ability to display a custom message instead of "Insert your password." is a security risk?
[01:30] <mhb> Riddell: we talked about it a while ago, I've had a few minutes time, so I coded those few lines.
[01:31] <mhb> Riddell: one particular use case is when a user clicks on the adept_updater's tray icon ... the new dialog seems better to me
[01:31] <mhb> (the new comment, that is)
[01:33] <Hobbsee> hey all
[01:34] <marseillai> yop Hobbsee
[01:34] <marseillai> Hobbsee: you ask me to keep you aware for kdenetwork : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5278
[01:34] <Hobbsee> :)
[01:35] <marseillai> tested
[01:35] <marseillai> works fine
[01:35] <Hobbsee> marseillai: did you have a debdiff of your changes, as it was only a patch you were adding?
[01:35] <Hobbsee> it's often easier to see with a debdiff
[01:35] <marseillai> Hobbsee: yes i have
[01:35] <Hobbsee> cool
[01:36] <marseillai> Hobbsee: but Riddell told me something about it i didn't understand (english comprehension)
[01:36] <Hobbsee> what was it?
[03:02] <Hobbsee> Jucato: which version of kdevelop were you after?
[03:02] <Jucato> er not me. 3.4.1
[03:03] <Jucato> just a question/request from users in #kubuntu and KFN... just echoing it
[03:03] <Hobbsee> ah right
[03:03] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison kdevelop
[03:03] <Hobbsee>   kdevelop | 4:3.4.1-0ubuntu2 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Packages
[03:03] <Hobbsee>   kdevelop | 4:3.4.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages
[03:03] <Hobbsee>   kdevelop | 4:3.4.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources
[03:04] <Jucato> kool :)
[03:04] <Jucato> thanks Hobbsee :)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> yep :)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> all of kde 3.5.7 is done - woo!
[03:05] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you are (one of) the best! :)
[03:05] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:06] <Hobbsee> i tend to test build half or so - what i'm confident with, i wont, and then find that they fail.  and of course, the ones that i test build usually pass.  it's unfair.
[03:07] <Jucato> :)
[03:29] <rbrunhuber> Is it a bug that kdepim and kdevelop overwrite each others files?
[03:30] <rbrunhuber> This one I mean: E: /var/cache/apt/archives/knode_4%3a3.5.7-1ubuntu2_i386.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/services/kontact/knodeplugin.desktop', which is also in package kontact
[03:30] <Hobbsee> rbrunhuber: yes, known
[03:30] <Hobbsee> rbrunhuber: test building a fix at the moment
[03:30] <Hobbsee> rbrunhuber: bug is filed
[03:31] <rbrunhuber> Hobbsee: Cool
[03:31] <rbrunhuber> Does anybody know when ipw2200 firmware is due for kernel 2.6.22?
[03:32] <Hobbsee> ask in #ubuntu-kernel, on a weekday
[03:34] <rbrunhuber> is powertop planned to be packaged for ubuntu?
[03:35] <Hobbsee>   powertop |      1.2-1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Packages
[03:35] <Hobbsee>   powertop |      1.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages
[03:35] <Hobbsee>   powertop |      1.2-1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Sources
[03:35] <Hobbsee>   powertop |      1.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources
[03:35] <Hobbsee> packages.ubuntu.com will tell you that
[03:48] <Hobbsee> rbrunhuber: fixed in gutsy
[03:49] <Jucato> !kde
[03:49] <ubotu> KDE (http://kde.org) is the !desktop environment used natively in !Kubuntu. To install from Ubuntu:  sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop , or see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingKDE . Latest KDE version is 3.5.6 for Feisty and Edgy, and 3.5.5 for Dapper. See http://kubuntu.org for more information.
[03:49] <Hobbsee> that's out of date..
[03:52] <Jucato> yeah
[03:53] <Jucato> !no kde is <reply> KDE (http://kde.org) is the !desktop environment used natively in !Kubuntu. To install from Ubuntu:  sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop , or see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingKDE . Latest KDE version is 3.5.7 for Feisty, 3.5.6 for Edgy, and 3.5.5 for Dapper. See http://kubuntu.org for more information.
[03:54] <Hobbsee> Jucato: where's gutsy in there?
[03:55] <Jucato> we usually don't put the KDE version for ubuntu+1
[03:56] <rbrunhuber> Hobbsee: What is fixed in gutsy?
[03:57] <Hobbsee> rbrunhuber: kdepim breakage, with the file overwrite
[03:57] <Hobbsee> Jucato: true dat.
[03:57] <rbrunhuber> Hobbsee: Mirror is not up to date then latest update did not bring anything new
[03:58] <rbrunhuber> See you.
[03:58] <Hobbsee> it has to build and be published first, yes....
[04:26] <Hobbsee> morning Riddell
[04:27] <Riddell> mhb: that looks fine, it's the hiding of the command that I was worried about
[04:27] <Riddell> hola Hobbsee
[04:27] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:27] <Hobbsee> kdepim is fixed ;)
[04:32] <Riddell> ooh?
[04:32] <Riddell> in which way?
[04:32] <Hobbsee> file conflicts, and networkstatus-dev back
[04:32] <Jucato> Riddell: can't we have both? I mean the command and the custom message? (although it might make the dialog box a bit bigger)
[04:32] <Hobbsee> koffice be broken though.
[04:33] <Hobbsee> (damn, i didnt test build the rebuild-only)
[04:33] <Riddell> Jucato: yes, that seems to be what mhb has done
[04:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: does knetworkmanager work in gutsy?  and networkstatus generally?
[04:34] <Jucato> Riddell: ah. nice :)
[04:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: fdoving did that
[04:35] <Hobbsee> Riddell: knetworkmanager plays nice if it knows i have a wired connection as a backup.  it's got a sixth sense, i think.
[04:35] <Hobbsee> or at least my wifi card
[04:35] <Hobbsee> knetworkmanager is mostly playing fine, when aforementioned network card is not being a pain, yes.
[04:35] <Hobbsee> ie, yes.   seems that the problems that i'm having with wifi are elsewhere.
[04:37] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i dont know what networkstatus does, apart from beign required by knm, so appears to be working too
[04:38] <Hobbsee> yay, i'm a dodgy proposed-core-dev for nto always test building, and not knowing everything.
[04:39] <ryanakca> Jucato: ping, about the kmilo patch
[04:39] <Jucato> ryanakca: pong
[04:40] <Jucato> (you should really be pinging mhb though... he just asked me to put up the agenda for him, since he already had one... and I pointed him to the patch)
[04:40] <ryanakca> Jucato: about the kmilo patch... hmmm. Couldn't that be a simple thing to set up?
[04:41] <Hobbsee> how's it sunday already?
[04:41] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: dunno, Saturday here
[04:41] <Jucato> ryanakca: mhb has tested it. said it worked fine
[04:42] <ryanakca> Jucato: ah, so he already has the packages for it ready?
[04:42] <Jucato> that I don't know :(
[04:42] <mhb> not really
[04:42] <Jucato> oh there :)
[04:43] <mhb> ryanakca: feel free to make the packages
[04:43] <ryanakca> mhb: okies
[04:43] <mhb> ryanakca: I like the "compact" style
[04:43] <mhb> but that is what we should discuss :o)
[04:43] <ryanakca> ah
[04:44] <ryanakca> well, shouldn't take very long... I'll make a package for each, and then we can discuss which one is best liked, I guess?
[04:44] <mhb> ryanakca: yeah, but screenshots should be fine too, as long as the patches work
[04:46] <ryanakca> okies
[04:54] <mhb> Hobbsee: what about the meeting?
[04:54] <mhb> Hobbsee: are we waiting for more topics? Or something else?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> we're waiting for me to throw my brain into gear, and actually know when i'll be around
[04:54] <Hobbsee> which requires work to stop changing my roster.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> i think it's concrete now
[04:55] <Hobbsee> so then we're just pending my brain, as i've got 2 meetings to set up
[04:55] <Hobbsee> and have to know when i can be alive for both of htem.
[04:55] <Hobbsee> + get assignments done.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> i hear 1200 UTC isnt such a bad time.
[04:56] <Hobbsee> mhb: are you around then?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ^ ?
[04:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: I have completed my final exams, so it's up to you to choose the time, I'll be there :o)
[04:57] <Hobbsee> great
[04:57] <Hobbsee> okay
[04:57] <Hobbsee> my brain doesnt really work at 6/7 am, so it's pretyt pointless having meetings then.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> it's certainly not creativ
[04:58] <Hobbsee> e
[05:00] <Hobbsee> then it would be easy.
[05:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115470 in kubuntu-meta ""system", "settings" and "utilities" menus need refinement & other kmenu observations" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115470
[05:05] <Jucato> 2, 3, and 4 are quite invalid...
[05:07] <ryanakca> is this safe to ignore?
[05:07] <ryanakca> W: kdeutils source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
[05:07] <ryanakca> W: kdeutils source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 4:3.5.7-1ubuntu2
[05:07] <nixternal> Hobbsee: just set a time, it is understandable that everyone can't make it. you can also make a table where people can put their best times rated with a 1 or a 0, the column with the highest number wins
[05:07] <Jucato> well, Settings is a K Menu-specific menu, like Recent Documents, that can only be enabled or disabled, not moved afaik
[05:08] <Jucato> Terminal emulators have always been considered as system tools in KDE (they changed that in GNOME I think)
[05:08] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i cant really set a time and then find *i* cant make it
[05:08] <nixternal> 12:00 UTC, is 7am here, that means I would have to set my alarm, and I don't do that :)
[05:08] <Hobbsee> which is the current problem
[05:08] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:08] <Hobbsee> 1300 UTC also works
[05:08] <ryanakca> 7am I'm on my way to school here...
[05:08] <Hobbsee> 1300 better?
[05:08] <Hobbsee> if it's your 8am?
[05:08] <nixternal> see, just set the time, let everyone complain...there will be mroe meetings :)
[05:09] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I don't have to be there, so don't set it around me
[05:09] <nixternal> hehe
[05:09] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:09] <Hobbsee> point
[05:09] <nixternal> I will set my alarm for a kubuntu meenting now :)
[05:09] <ryanakca> at school... but, I'm not really bringing anything to the meeting, mhb can just give a link to the kmilo packages
[05:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: dont ask how many classes i made at uni this week...
[05:09] <Hobbsee> vs how many i didnt...
[05:09] <Jucato> :/
[05:09] <nixternal> uh oh..gimme the numbers?
[05:09] <nixternal> I start back on tuesday ;(
[05:10] <Hobbsee> i would have made less than 25% this week, i think.
[05:10] <ryanakca> ouch
[05:10] <nixternal> 10 hours in classes, programming classes...Java, C/C++, and ASP.NET/C#
[05:10] <Hobbsee> probably about 10%, maybe?
[05:10] <nixternal> wow
[05:10] <Hobbsee> it's....not good.
[05:10] <nixternal> hehe, it gets better...so they say
[05:10] <nixternal> ;)
[05:11] <Hobbsee> it had better - else i'll fail
[05:11] <Hobbsee> which will make it very hard for me to go to another UDS.
[05:11] <nixternal> nah, you don't want that now
[05:11] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: depends what they are.  probably
[05:12] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: what what are? I pasted them a couple of minutes ago, nmu stuff
[05:12] <nixternal> I still pulled 2 A's and 2 B's (90%+ = A, and 80%+ = B) last semester with barely cracking a book
[05:12] <nixternal> this semester I feel will be a little different
[05:12] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: ahh.  can be ignored
[05:12] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:12] <Hobbsee> it's second year, it's nto first
[05:12] <ryanakca> okies :)
[05:12] <Hobbsee> so it's harder
[05:12] <Hobbsee> i cant rubbish what i have no idea about
[05:13] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: what courses you taking again? C++ ?
[05:13] <Hobbsee> no c++
[05:13] <Hobbsee> optoelectronics - so optoelectronics x2, maths, electronics, physics
[05:13] <nixternal> hehe, Hobbsee I know exactly what you mean about "I can't rubbish what I have no idea about"
[05:13] <nixternal> I got lucky as hell though my 2nd year with anthropology and did it :)
[05:14] <Hobbsee> i can rubbish what i have *some* idea about jsut fine, though
[05:14] <mhb> Jucato: about that bug: truth is, I can't reject it - I always end up thinking that those menus are bad indeed
[05:14] <nixternal> but when it comes to the computer classes, ya, you definitely can't try and hide it
[05:14] <Hobbsee> like i did in elec last semester.  NFI how.
[05:14] <Hobbsee> got a credit for it
[05:14] <nixternal> electronics is fun
[05:14] <Hobbsee> if you understand it
[05:14] <Jucato> mhb: maybe make them a wishlist. but 2, 3, and 4 is not something we can do something about
[05:15] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I understand enough electronics to be dangerous
[05:15] <Hobbsee> oh dear
[05:15] <nixternal> I grew up around it, my dad is an electronics engineer
[05:15] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: cool
[05:15] <nixternal> plus they taught it to me in the military
[05:15] <Hobbsee> ahhh...
[05:15] <nixternal> and no, they didn't teach me how to hook someone up to a car battery and torcher them, although it seems popular these days
[05:16] <Jucato> mhb: 2) the Settings menu only takes it's entries from KControl. 3) System Menu and Settings are KDE given names. they also correspond to the kicker applet names of the same function. 4) System Settings is our own app. maybe that we could change. but I doubt it
[05:18] <mhb> Jucato: System settings is pretty neat, better than kcontrol definitely (my 2 cents). However, having a menu called "System" and "System Settings" might be confusing.
[05:19] <DaSkreech> mhb: Bah!
[05:19] <Jucato> mhb: unfortunately, we can technically only change System Settings
[05:20] <Jucato> mhb: btw, in the K Menu on vanilla KDE, it's called "Control Center"
[05:20] <Jucato> kcontrol has just become the nickname, since it's the executable name, and shorter :)
[05:20] <mhb> Jucato: that's kcontrol
[05:20] <DaSkreech> Show me Keyboard navigation or rescind!
[05:20] <Jucato> I know, I'm just saying the formal name is "Control Center" on the K Menu in vanilla KDE
[05:23] <DaSkreech> Finds it really annoying that hecan't browse the System settings by keyboard
[05:23] <mhb> true
[05:24] <Jucato> DaSkreech: wasn't fixed unfortunately for feisty. maybe in gusty
[05:24] <mhb> Jucato: how come we can't change the menus' names?
[05:24] <DaSkreech> Which menu?
[05:24] <Jucato> mhb: not Settings or System Menu. unless you want to patch those
[05:25] <Jucato> "Settings" -> special kicker menu for KControl. "System Menu" -> special kicker menu for "places"
[05:25] <Jucato> then you'd most probably have to patch the names of the corresponding kicker applets
[05:25] <mhb> Jucato: no, I meant the kmenu ones
[05:25] <DaSkreech> night
[05:26] <Jucato> night Hobbsee
[05:26] <Jucato> mhb: didn't say you can't. I just specifically mentioned the special kicker menus
[05:26] <mhb> Jucato: those are fine, at least for me
[05:27] <mhb> Jucato: the one I dislike is the "System" kmenu item
[05:27] <mhb> Jucato: because "System" doesn't say much to you
[05:27] <Jucato> I guess it's more by "tradition" (GNOME has it too...)
[05:28] <mhb> Jucato: GNOME's System is basically System Settings
[05:28] <Jucato> er no
[05:28] <Jucato> Applications -> System
[05:29] <Jucato> not the top level System
[05:29] <Jucato> (which is more confusing come to think of it)
[05:29] <mhb> Jucato: now tell me it's not confusing :D
[05:30] <Jucato> mhb: but GNOME has 2 "System" menus. we only have one plain "System" menu
[05:30] <mhb> Jucato: well, we have "System" and "System settings"
[05:30] <Jucato> one is System Settings, one is System apps
[05:30] <Jucato> although System Menu is the least logical name imho
[05:30] <Jucato> or least relevant
[05:31] <mhb> Jucato: it doesn't say "System apps"
[05:31] <mhb> Jucato: it says just "System", which is kind of confusing
[05:31] <Jucato> it's quite implied by the "All Applications" at the top
[05:31] <DaSkreech> call it Configuration?
[05:32] <mhb> Jucato: but still, what system tools out of that menu do you use?
[05:32] <mhb> and how can one define a system app?
[05:32] <mhb> I mean - konsole is not an app you need root access for
[05:32] <mhb> OTOH, adept is
[05:32] <Jucato> KSysGuard, KInfoCenter, Konsole, Adept
[05:32] <ryanakca> I'd call it System Utilities, or Administration
[05:33] <Jucato> Administration is probably better. System Utilities will conflict with Utilities
[05:33] <Jucato> Utilities, being the KDE counterpart of Accessories
[05:33] <ryanakca> I had my teacher try to add a new user in feisty, and his eyes went strait to System, without even seeing System Settings
[05:33] <ryanakca> I had to point him to System Settings
[05:34] <Jucato> (which is why it would probably be better to change the latter's name :P)
[05:34] <mhb> Jucato: for example, doesn't Ubuntu have synaptic in the System (main System) menu?
[05:34] <Jucato> mhb: and Add/Remove in the Applications menu
[05:34] <ryanakca> Add it to the meeting's agenda?
[05:35] <DaSkreech> mhb: it does
[05:35] <Jucato> based on my experience in #kubuntu, System Settings is the most confused name of all :)
[05:35] <mhb> Jucato: really?
[05:35] <Jucato> specially if they have the Settings menu enabled
[05:36] <DaSkreech> Jucato: In mine it's adept :-(
[05:36] <ryanakca> I would put Konsole under Utilities as well...
[05:36] <mhb> Jucato: well I think it's confusing because there are other menus there implying "System"
[05:36] <ryanakca> yeah
[05:36] <DaSkreech> people keep seeing reference to adept and when the open install applications it doesn't follow the instructions they read online
[05:36] <Jucato> but it's not the System's fault. it's SYstem Settings hehe
[05:36] <Jucato> :)
[05:37] <mhb> it's quite hard to define what belongs in system settings and what doesn't (when we skip the fact that some stuff is kcmshell-embedable and some isn't)
[05:37] <ryanakca> Add/Remove Programs can be confused with Adept as well. How do people know that they will probably want Adept, or vice versa
[05:38] <Jucato> mhb: it's simple. none of the kcontrol modules are ordinarily accessible except through system settings.
[05:39] <ryanakca> A new user doesn't know what a package is, most likely, and so, will ignore an app with "Manage Packages" in it's menu name
[05:39] <mhb> Jucato: but if you don't know what kcontrol module is
[05:39] <mhb> Jucato: (pretend you forgot that)
[05:40] <ryanakca> Jucato: a new user has no clue what KControl is
[05:40] <Jucato> mhb: what's the point? the Settings menu isn't enabled by default.
[05:40] <Jucato> ryanakca: so they use system settings
[05:40] <mhb> Jucato: you have a Boot Manager, a Wine Manager and a Package Manager - which one does belong in the "System" menu and which in the "System settings" application?
[05:40] <Jucato> anyway, not my decision/point to make. better raise it up in the meeting
[05:40] <ryanakca> Ok, will add
[05:41] <DaSkreech> Jucato: the real issue is the user being able to do things right the first time
[05:42] <Jucato> mhb: kcontrol modules belong in System Settings. since adept isn't, it belongs outside. but I can only speak for Kubuntu who's system settings is just a modified shell for kcontrol (nothing like yast or drakconf)
[05:46] <ryanakca> Jucato: mhb: feel free to add more confusing things to the Agenda
[05:46] <Jucato> lol
[05:46] <Jucato> I just finished one :)
[05:46] <ryanakca> ah
[05:47] <ryanakca> well... have some more :P
[05:47] <Jucato> :)
[05:48] <Jucato> mhb, ryanakca: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
[05:49] <Jucato> unless you guys want to go against kde and fd.o :)
[05:50] <mhb> Jucato: I don't
[05:50] <Jucato> I guess that doc kinda clarifies the distinction between Settings and System
[05:51] <Jucato> and that "System" is for "System applications"
[05:51] <Jucato> maybe we could rename it as System Tools if you want :)
[05:51] <DaSkreech> Like adminsitration?
[05:51] <mhb> Jucato: nah
[05:52] <Jucato> anyway, those are just the Categories, not the menu names. but I guess it's implied that the menu names should be slightly similar
[05:54] <mhb> Jucato: I still think it's confusing. Not all standards are crystal clear. OpenXML anyone?
[05:54] <DaSkreech> Hey anyone seen the Gnome menu on kde-apps ?
[05:54] <Jucato> OpenXML is a standard now? thought it wasn't approved yet
[05:55] <Jucato> although I'm still not sure that it is confusing in the first place anyway... we need more opinions :)
[05:55] <DaSkreech> Or some one to read through the massive spec floated through ECMA
[05:56] <mhb> Jucato: not an ISO standard yet,
[05:56] <Jucato> er referring to the menu name. not to OXML :)
[05:56] <DaSkreech> of course you are :)
[05:57] <mhb> Jucato: I think adept is way too buried
[05:58] <Jucato> btw, if you want buried, you should try mandriva :)
[05:58] <Jucato> mandriva free (not one)
[05:58] <DaSkreech> I don't mind Add/Remove I'd ust like it to work
[05:59] <Jucato> I've had problems with it before, packages not showing up, like kword. so I don't trust it that much
[06:00] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[06:00] <mhb> I'd like to see One Adept For All as well
[06:00] <DaSkreech> !info mixxx
[06:00] <ubotu> mixxx: Digital Disc Jockey Interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.5.0svn~20070130dfsg-0ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 435 kB, installed size 1388 kB
[06:00] <mhb> simple, fast, configurable
[06:00] <ryanakca> ah
[06:00] <DaSkreech> I can never get that to turn up in add/remove
[06:00] <DaSkreech> whereas my friend FOUND it though synaptic add/remve and now doesn't trust Kubuntu
[06:01] <ryanakca> hmmm
[06:04] <mhb> DaSkreech: eh?
[06:05] <mhb> DaSkreech: you mean a gnome-like menu in default applets?
[06:05] <DaSkreech> I mean an empty Menu that holds all Gnome apps
[06:05] <DaSkreech> So if someone has Ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop It will still look neat
[06:06] <mhb> DaSkreech: there are several issues with that
[06:06] <DaSkreech> It logically seperates them and allows the user to not have a messy menu
[06:06] <mhb> DaSkreech: like having two pop-ups on every CD insert, USB disk insert ...
[06:06] <DaSkreech> mhb: Lets hear them
[06:06] <DaSkreech> Eh?
[06:06] <DaSkreech> Why?
[06:07] <mhb> DaSkreech: why what? That does happen on my Feisty box with ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop
[06:07] <DaSkreech> two different handlers?
[06:07] <mhb> DaSkreech: two different pop-ups, one GNOME and one KDE
[06:07] <mhb> no clue why
[06:10] <DaSkreech> so why do you think that has something to do wih the menu?
[06:10] <mhb> DaSkreech: I didn't say that
[06:11] <mhb> DaSkreech: it's just another bug that's related to having both those -desktops installed
[06:11] <DaSkreech> Fine
[06:11] <DaSkreech> well I still propose having a Gnome menu
[06:16] <DaSkreech> we have a debian menu
[06:16] <DaSkreech> :-)
[06:16] <nixternal> I already have it installed :)
[06:17] <nixternal> one of the first things I install...it helps fill up Katapult :)
[06:17] <DaSkreech> yeah I just use it to open kcontrol from katapult
[06:22] <Riddell> kcontrol isn't in katapult
[06:22] <nixternal> Riddell: if you install Debian menu it will be
[06:27] <Riddell> right
[06:40] <fdoving> Riddell: did hobbsee experience problem with unmounting?
[06:44] <Riddell> fdoving: not sure, she didn't say
[06:47] <fdoving> ok, i didn't see her saying anything about it either..  but ".. and if it works for anyone else"  makes it sound like something is wrong.
[06:48] <fdoving> she might not have the extra package needed. kio-umountwrapper that is.
[06:48] <fdoving> it's not in the archives yet.
[06:49] <fdoving> the changes to kdebase might look strange if she doesn't have that.
[06:56] <mhb> how does the desktop manager (kdm) handle the cursor?
[06:57] <mhb> I mean - in gdm, you get the ubuntu (white) cursor in gdm, but in kdm you get the black cursor before you log in
[07:00] <fdoving> you can control that via the XCURSOR_THEME environment variable iirc.
[07:00] <fdoving> and some magic symlinking
[07:00] <fdoving> s/and/or
[07:01] <mhb> thanks fdoving
[07:01] <fdoving> there is actually an /etc/alternatives/x-cursor-theme too.
[07:02] <fdoving> so update-alternatives --config x-cursor-theme
[07:02] <mhb> fdoving: hmm, although I have that set up, kdm displays the black cursor first
[07:03] <mhb> fdoving: does your kdm work fine?
[07:03] <mhb> fdoving: it may be a bug
[07:03] <fdoving> work fine as in?
[07:03] <fdoving> it works, i don't remember what cursor it uses.
[07:03] <mhb> fdoving: the "Kubuntu" cursor from the beginning
[07:03] <fdoving> i much prefer the default black xorg cursor.
[07:03] <fdoving> not sure, my defaults are set to the black core.theme
[07:04] <mhb> oh
[07:04] <mhb> thanks
[07:21] <marseillai> Riddell: did you have time to take a look at kopete ?
[07:38] <jjesse> afernoon
[07:39] <jjesse> d'oh afternoon
[08:48] <jdong> anyone doing KTorrent 2.2-beta packages yet?
[08:48] <jdong> I am thinking about doing some right now...
[08:49] <jdong> meh I'll first get the SRU updated, then do that
[08:49] <jdong> cheers :)
[09:01] <paran> jdong: that would be nice. then I can stop using my own packages with 2.1.4 + some svn patches :)
[09:36] <jdong> paran: building right now :)
[09:53] <mschiff> Hey all
[09:53] <mschiff> while compiling kdebase I get this error: http://phpfi.com/237170
[09:53] <mschiff> Any hints somebody?
[09:54] <mschiff> (using 3.5.7 package source)
[10:07] <mschiff> ok, how can I recompile the kdebase 3.5.7 package?
[10:12] <marseillai_> arf
[10:12] <marseillai_> the ast MAJ makes me loose my kwallet .... :(
[10:38] <ryanakca> mhb: jucato: ping. KMilo built fine for gutsy, lintian spit out a couple warnings that I have no clue about thogh
[10:38] <ryanakca> s/thogh/though
[10:39] <Lure> Riddell, imbrandon: if you can sponsor upload of arts: http://muse.19inch.net/~lure/gutsy/arts.debdiff
[10:40] <Lure> this fixes wakeups/power usage - see http://vir.homelinux.org/blog/index.php?url=archives/41-PowerTOP-and-aRts.html
[10:41] <\sh> Lure, I could do it as well
[10:41] <Lure> \sh: right, forgot that you are also kde-friendly core-dev ;-)
[10:41] <\sh> lol
[10:42] <Lure> \sh: it works here without side-effects and there are several positive reports in blog comments
[10:42] <\sh> lure I'll check :)
[10:42] <Lure> \sh: also listed under known issues: http://www.linuxpowertop.org/known.php
[10:42] <Lure> \sh: thanks
[10:42] <\sh> but why do we need arts anyways? I thought we wanted to get rid of it...
[10:43] <Lure> \sh: knotify uses it (it looks like) :-(
[10:44] <\sh> yeah, kopete is evil...same applies to gaim sorry pidgin
[10:44] <\sh> pigdin?
[10:52] <\sh> just taking hours to update my pbuilder on this t43...umts sucks
[10:56] <Lure_> bluetooth sucks...
[10:57] <Lure_> it generates 100 interrupts/sec when turned on (but not connected)
[10:57] <ryanakca> Should I add this to the agenda? http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/K+Menu+Gnome+%28source%29?content=31025 DaSkreech was talking about Ubuntu-Desktop apps cluttering up his kmenu earlier, and suggested having it installed by default
[11:00] <ryanakca> Lure_: ouch
[11:02] <Lure_> Riddell: thanks
[11:02] <Lure_> \sh: ^^
[11:04] <\sh> Riddell, argl...
[11:04] <\sh> just because i'm on umts ;)
[11:04] <\sh> pbuilder-guts-i386 update > 30mins
[11:04] <Lure_> \sh: ;-)
[11:05] <jjesse> nice
[11:05] <Riddell> \sh: doesn't that cost a fortune?
[11:06] <\sh> Lure, it's company card with 5 GB traffic on it...but it's a lowspeed card..(384kBit/s)
[11:07] <Riddell> ryanakca: can't say I'm a fan of separating apps into sub-menus
[11:07] <\sh> Riddell, hehe..but thanks for uploading :)
[11:07] <\sh> Riddell, btw...will you come to berlin for a day or two?
[11:10] <_StefanS_> hey..
[11:10] <ryanakca> Riddell: ah, okies.
[11:11] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I'm planning to have that kdesu with fade done for gutsy, if its still relevant ofcourse (?)
[11:11] <\sh> did anybody tested OTPs with kdm? (apt-get install opie-client opie-server)?
[11:12] <ryanakca> Riddell: and I don't suppose there could be a way to make it an option? (give users the choice of having all their gnome apps in a gnome submenu in KMenu, or having them dispersed and mingling with the KDE apps in the respective kmenu submenus)
[11:12] <fdoving> on gnome the fade effects are config keys in gconf.
[11:13] <fdoving> we should make them configurable too.
[11:13] <\sh> fdoving, yeah, but having it in somewhere where you can switch it off easily without reading the whole gconf system ;)
[11:14] <fdoving> \sh: i grep irclogs when i need it. :)
[11:15] <\sh> fdoving, cool, that's a nice faq ;) "how do I switch of fading in gnome?" "grep "switch of fading in gnome" ~/irclogs/#ubuntu ,-)
[11:15] <\sh> s/of/off/g
[11:15] <fdoving> 'gconf-editor /apps/metacity/general' reduced_resources or something.
[11:15] <fdoving> not up2date on gnome things.
[11:16] <\sh> fdoving, hmm...MS is greeting...
[11:17] <_StefanS_> \sh: I see your point about those fades, but I was planning to make them configurable through system-settings
[11:18] <_StefanS_> \sh: just didn't make it for feisty
[11:18] <fdoving> make them configurable via some magic keys in some magic config file.
[11:18] <fdoving> then make a kcm module later.
[11:18] <_StefanS_> fdoving: already configurable
[11:19] <_StefanS_> fdoving: using settings in ksmserverrc
[11:19] <fdoving> _StefanS_: oh. nice.
[11:20] <_StefanS_> fdoving: although the kdesu thingy needs some more work
[11:20] <_StefanS_> fdoving: trouble is that qt3 is not really that good with large fullscreen bitmaps, so its hard to get good speed
[11:20] <fdoving> ok.
[11:21] <fdoving> back to the config thing.
[11:21] <_StefanS_> uhm maybe it just messed up whatever you two was talking about :)
[11:21] <fdoving> if it's already configurable, making a online .sh script to toggle it's state would be easy with 'kwriteconfig'
[11:21] <_StefanS_> sorry
[11:21] <fdoving> _StefanS_: no, not at all :)
[11:22] <_StefanS_> oh ok :)
[11:22] <fdoving> _StefanS_: i was saying that to you.. kwriteconfig is nice for managing those rcfiles from the commandline.
[11:22] <_StefanS_> fdoving: oh ok - I wasn't aware of that
[11:23] <fdoving> including scripts like "kdesu-disable-fade.sh" and "kdm-disable-fade.sh" and their enable versions would be very easy.
[11:24] <fdoving> it's not like something a user will want to change often.
[11:24] <_StefanS_> fdoving: true
[11:24] <fdoving> (if ever at all)
[11:24] <_StefanS_> fdoving: well, its something we could always refine - I'll try first to get good speed on that fullscreen fade (and the rest ofcourse) before we finalize it
[11:25] <fdoving> yep, good luck :)
[11:25] <_StefanS_> thnx
[11:26] <_StefanS_> fdoving: btw, the cdbs-edit-patch thingy; you can edit an existing patch aswell I figure, by just naming it exactly (?)
[11:27] <fdoving> _StefanS_: yes. you can.
[11:27] <_StefanS_> fdoving: and good work on that audiocd eject ;)
[11:27] <_StefanS_> fdoving: ok, that was really valuable, because I always fight with the apply-patches, and always end up doing a regular diff
[11:28] <fdoving> _StefanS_: i have http://frode.kde.no/misc/cdbs-edit-diff for .diff files.
[11:28] <fdoving> not 100% sure if it's needed anymore or not, cdbs-edit-patch might support .diffs now,  it works for me though.
[11:29] <_StefanS_> fdoving: so say you have finished whatever changes you have to an existing patch; you would just distribute that one I guess, and not create a debdiff (?)
[11:30] <_StefanS_> hmm I guess you would need debdiff anyways
[11:30] <fdoving> well.. if you want your name in the changelog-entry for the package.. you would make a debdiff.
[11:30] <fdoving> with that changelog entry.
[11:30] <_StefanS_> dch -i
[11:31] <_StefanS_> I get it, but other than that its not nessecary then ?
[11:31] <fdoving> if not, the debian/patches/ patch contains all the changes you did niside the shell.. so yeah.. that would be enought.
[11:31] <fdoving> -spellingmistakes
[11:31] <_StefanS_> fdoving: gotcha
[11:32] <_StefanS_> fdoving: I commited that patch for knetworkmanager, so I'm really curious if they
[11:32] <_StefanS_> fdoving: 're going to accept it
[11:34] <ryanakca> any gutsy people willing to test the compact kmilo patch? http://packages.ryanak.ca/pool/ryan-gutsy/kde/kmilo_3.5.7-1ubuntu2_i386.deb
[11:36] <fdoving> still on feisty and kde 3.5.6...
[11:37] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: I can test it, what should I try?
[11:40] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: it should look slightly different. I haven't managed to test it, http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KMilo+-+Customizable+DefaultSkin?content=56287
[11:40] <ryanakca> http://downloads.guillermoamaral.com/linux/kde/kmilo/kmilodrc ... is the config file
[11:40] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: ah thats nice
[11:40] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: Im just testing it on a vm
[11:41] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: I'll build myself a feisty one and test it here
[11:43] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: seems like my vm dies
[11:43] <_StefanS_> dies/died
[11:45] <ryanakca> ouch
[11:45] <fdoving> ryanakca: which of the patches did you apply?
[11:45] <fdoving> standard or compact?
[11:47] <ryanakca> fdoving: compact
[11:50] <ryanakca> for running gutsy in vmware, I should get vmware workstation?
[11:51] <\sh> ryanakca, vmware-server is enough
[11:52] <_StefanS_> seems like the last gutsy kernel broke my vm ..
[11:52] <\sh> use feisty and install vmware server, then install feisty in a vm and upgrade to gutsy
[11:53] <_StefanS_> oh well it works now
[11:53] <ryanakca> \sh: ok
[11:53] <ryanakca> \sh: and then vmware-server-console to view?
[11:54] <\sh> ryanakca, the standard tools .. so vmware server console
[11:54] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: you could just download the trial of vmware-workstation also, might be faster
[11:54] <ryanakca> \sh: okies.
[11:54] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: to setup i mean
[11:54] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: ah
[11:55] <_StefanS_> I just bought the latest 6.0, it really kicks some serious butt..
[11:56] <fdoving> ryanakca: you can also consider virtualbox.org
[11:58] <ryanakca> fdoving: any idea which is faster/less ressource hogging? (virtualbox or vmware)
[11:58] <_StefanS_> fdoving: is it good ?
[11:58] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: might be just about the same I think
[11:58] <fdoving> ryanakca: there was some blogging about virtualbox beeing better.. i haven't used any of them yet.
[11:59] <_StefanS_> fdoving: can you dig up that blog entry?
[11:59] <_StefanS_> fdoving: would like to read the comparisons
[11:59] <ryanakca> sme
[11:59] <ryanakca> *same
[11:59] <fdoving> http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/05/13/its-a-virtual-world/
[11:59] <ryanakca> I have to install vmware-server-console anywais...
[12:00] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: I got the package and free key somewhere if its faster for you
[12:02] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: for? virtalbox? vmware-server-console is free, isn't it? or are you talking about the vmware-workstation
[12:02] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: vmware server and the console for it
[12:02] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: vmware server needs a serial even though its free
[12:04] <ryanakca> hmmm
[12:06] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: could you send me the package & key for the console?
[12:07] <ryanakca> I don't need the server one now, since I'm going to try out virtualbox first...
[12:07] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: well I guess you mean both vmware server + console + key, right?
[12:09] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: sure, please
[12:12] <_StefanS_> ryanakca: look at the pm
[12:15] <ryanakca> thanks