[12:26] <jsimp2006> hello
[08:55] <jsgotangco> brb
[10:22] <onkarshinde> When is the meeting supposed to start?
[10:22] <ajmitch> which one?
[10:22] <Seveas> first meeting in the schedule is tuesday
[10:23] <onkarshinde> Oops. I really missed the date
[10:52] <Whatsisname> not till the 14th\
[01:00] <sivang> hi all
[01:03] <cusco> hi
[01:42] <Seveas> test
[01:43] <kbrooks> Seveas, hi,.
[01:43] <Seveas> hi
[01:43] <kbrooks> Seveas, whats new?
[01:43] <highvoltage> Seveas: didn't work :/
[01:43] <Seveas> I'm testing something - didn't work indeed
[01:43] <highvoltage> :P
[01:43] <Seveas> test
[01:43] <Seveas> great
[01:43] <kbrooks> Seveas, are you in #ubuntu-desktop
[01:43] <Seveas> yes
[01:44] <Seveas> hmm
[01:44] <Seveas> ok, test successful
[01:46] <highvoltage> Seveas: you're starting to sound like someone who found a new irssi theme :)
[01:46] <Seveas> nope
[01:47] <Seveas> I expect quite some people in the tuesday meetings and am preparing for measures in case it goes wrong
[02:03] <Chousuke> hmm :)
[02:06] <Mez> Seveas, how do you make that smily ?
[02:06] <Seveas> Mez, x-chat autoreplace
[02:06] <Mez> ah
[02:06] <Mez> lol
[02:07] <Mez> it doesnt do it for me
[02:09] <kbrooks> Seveas,
[02:09] <kbrooks> Mez,
[02:09] <Seveas> kbrooks, ?
[02:10] <kbrooks> a ubuntu faq entry recommends the marillat repo
[02:10] <Seveas> hrm
[02:10] <Seveas> BAD
[02:10] <Mez> BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD
[02:10] <Seveas> it was also present in the Ubuntu book
[02:10] <kbrooks> "How can I do Flash, Java or mp3 ?"
[02:10] <kbrooks> this one.
[02:10] <Seveas> kbrooks, URL?
[02:10] <kbrooks> search for it.
[02:10] <jsgotangco> Seveas, it was???
[02:10] <kbrooks> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq
[02:11] <Seveas> jsgotangco, yes
[02:11] <jsgotangco> crap
[02:11] <Seveas> in one of jonos chapters
[02:11] <jsgotangco> we have -ugly
[02:11] <kbrooks>  search for that without the quotes
[02:11] <jsgotangco> ah so its jono's write up
[02:11] <Seveas> kbrooks, poke heno / Henrik Nilsen Omma
[02:11] <jsgotangco> i would be shocked if it was corey's
[02:11] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:11] <Seveas> that should be corrected asap
[02:12] <kbrooks> Seveas, poke him? ... k
[02:12] <kbrooks> wheres he
[02:12] <jsgotangco> or send email
[02:12] <jsgotangco><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:13] <kbrooks> k.
[02:13] <kbrooks> i'll do.
[02:15] <kbrooks> What ubuntu book?
[02:15] <Seveas> official Ubuntu book currently beign written
[02:15] <Seveas> my comment on the marillat thing was "NONONONONON, bad jono, no cookie!"
[02:15] <kbrooks> dont understand.
[02:15] <kbrooks> a ubuntu book?
[02:16] <jsgotangco> kbrooks, there's an official ubuntu book coming out in time of dapper's release
[02:16] <kbrooks> show me
[02:16] <jsgotangco> it'll be released in a free doc license
[02:16] <kbrooks> jsgotangco, show me!!!
[02:17] <Seveas> Me is reviewing appendix A today
[02:17] <jsgotangco> ah cool
[02:18] <kbrooks> Seveas, show me the book.
[02:18] <Seveas> it's not out yet
[02:18] <kbrooks> Seveas, i'd like to preview it...
[02:19] <Seveas> well, you can't
[02:19] <Seveas> I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to forward what I received and thus I won't
[02:19] <kbrooks> why>
[02:19] <jsgotangco> its currently being on technical review
[02:19] <kbrooks> you suck. :P
[02:20] <Seveas> language...
[02:20] <jsgotangco> kbrooks, doing that won't help
[02:20] <kbrooks> what is the ubuntu book about, anyways?
[02:20] <Seveas> waht do you think?
[02:20] <Seveas> Ubuntu of course..
[02:21] <jsgotangco> we;re not even in the right channel to discuss this lol
[02:21] <kbrooks> Seveas, and why the ubuntu bok? theres good documentation, no?
[02:21] <Seveas> A book is good
[02:21] <kbrooks> ok.
[02:22] <kbrooks> *drops it*
[02:22] <kbrooks> anyway, about those nmeetings on tuesday.
[02:22] <kbrooks> why the community meeting?
[02:22] <jsgotangco> email
[02:22] <Seveas> because of the proposed delat
[02:22] <kbrooks> jsgotangco, what?
[02:22] <Seveas> delay*
[02:23] <kbrooks> jsgotangco, i sent a email to him already.
[02:23] <jsgotangco> kbrooks, no, the proposed delays are explained by mark on email
[02:23] <kbrooks> i saw the mailing list entry for it.
[04:15] <oasick> hi
[04:15] <sorush20> hi
[04:15] <sorush20> this is for meetings only but ask..
[04:16] <oasick> sorry for my english.. i'm spanish
[04:16] <oasick> xD
[04:16] <oasick> i recently read that ubuntu dapper, probably out last six weeks..
[04:18] <Seveas> oasick, please see the url in the topic
[04:18] <Seveas> (the tinyurl url)
[04:19] <oasick> thanxs seveas
[04:19] <oasick> ;)
[04:25] <sorush20> how do I find out which meetings to bring up my issues up on?
[04:27] <sorush20> bye guys
[09:07] <enyc> meep moop
[11:49] <Eleaf> yes
[11:50] <Eleaf> Is that one meeting still planned for the 14th?
[11:50] <Fujitsu> The two about the delay?
[11:50] <Eleaf> yes
[11:50] <Fujitsu> Check the topic.
[11:51] <Eleaf> lol
[11:51] <Fujitsu> 0900 and 1800.
[11:51] <Eleaf> what?
[11:51] <Eleaf> sorry, my mouse was in the topic..
[11:51] <Eleaf> ok thanks Fujitsu
[11:51] <Fujitsu> Mmmhm'ar
[11:51] <Eleaf> oh lol
[11:52] <Eleaf> I'll fix it
[11:52] <Eleaf> ;)
[11:53] <Fujitsu> Better :)
[11:59] <cusco> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=143334
[11:59] <cusco> god damn
[12:01] <cyphase> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Administrator_root_password_readable_in_cleartext_on_Ubuntu_Breezy
[12:03] <Eleaf> yes
[12:03] <Eleaf> I just pointed that out to others as well


[06:02] <didrocks> good morning
[06:39] <jhenke> hi any firefox involved people here?
[08:03] <Laney> hey hey!
[08:04] <seb128> hey Laney,  how are you?
[08:04] <Laney> tea, sun, #ubuntu-desktop
[08:04] <Laney> what more could anyone need?
[08:05] <Laney> you?
[08:05] <Laney> oh, and fake friday!
[08:05] <seb128> coffee, blue sky, nothing to complain about today!
[08:06] <seb128> yeah, it's between troll day and troll day
[08:08] <Laney> chpe even applied my patch
[08:08] <Laney> what a world we live in
[08:08] <didrocks> good morning Laney
[08:09] <Laney> hey didrocks
[08:09] <Laney> what's happening?
[08:10] <didrocks> Laney: normal Thursday for me ;)
[08:11] <didrocks> happy that we found the systemd autopkgtests issue and now reverted in experimental
[08:11] <Laney> oh yes, let's see if my container has network this morning ;-)
[08:19] <Laney> nope!
[09:09] <darkxst> hey laney, seb128 didrocks
[09:10] <darkxst> can someone take a look at bug 1437150, more fallout from the adwaita-icon-theme switch
[09:12] <Laney> ok
[09:12] <Laney> what package does it try to install?
[09:15] <seb128> Laney, I'm unsure about your nautilus question from yesterday, why what got used?
[09:16] <seb128> Laney, the new .desktop? because I guess that's what upstream use as an autostart or is dbus activated
[09:16] <seb128> that's not something I did/know about, you did that update iirc :-)
[09:17] <darkxst> Laney, it tries to install some part of samba for the sharing
[09:18] <Laney> yes - you've done some changes around this area recently so I thought you might know
[09:20] <seb128> well, I though we ought to use the new name
[09:20] <seb128> so I migrated the unity config, default&upgrade to use that
[09:20] <Laney> darkxst: I just wanted to know what to uninstall to reproduce this
[09:20] <seb128> which makes the launcher matching work now with the running nautilus
[09:20] <seb128> but it creates an issue still with the dash
[09:21] <seb128> unsure what to do next
[09:22] <Laney> does it work if you swap the NoDisplay?
[09:28] <darkxst> Laney, probably just uninstall samba
[09:28] <darkxst> not sure if this affects the ubuntu themes though, they may still have the legacy icons
[09:29] <seb128> Laney, I didn't try, but I guess, it would make the dash list the one used in the launcher/by nautilus
[09:30] <Laney> if so, then maybe you can make nautilus.desktop be NotShowIn=Unity and org.gnome.Nautilus.desktop be OnlyShowIn=Unity
[09:31] <Laney> which should keep compatibility with panel/xfce/whateveritwas and work with your new stuff
[09:33] <seb128> Laney, hum, right
[10:18] <Laney> hmm
[11:36] <didrocks> Laney: I'm happy to use g_clear_error(), even if it doesn't match what other part of the code is doing
[11:37] <didrocks> Laney: I'm wanting to avoid using initctl for now, as it seems those things can be slow on the bq device (that's what I was doing first, when asking people with a bq to test)
[11:40] <Laney> really?
[11:42] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, I have this issue as well when using invoke-rc.d status already
[11:42] <didrocks> and as it's dbus sync call (apparently…)
[11:42] <didrocks> Laney: I'm rebuilding with g_clear_error
[11:43] <didrocks> Laney: reuploaded
[11:44] <Laney> seems fast enough here
[11:44] <Laney> meh
[11:44] <Laney> it's really shit that we can't do correct solutions
[11:44] <didrocks> Laney: well, ask seb, he did the test
[11:44] <Laney> thanks for the other fix
[11:44] <didrocks> (on bq)
[11:44] <didrocks> Laney: TBH, the systemd one is the correct solution, and I hope the phone will switch to it soon enough
[11:45] <Laney> it's about using the best interface available for the job
[11:46] <didrocks> the best interface would have been to have a dbus one
[11:46] <didrocks> instead of grepping on tools output or reading files
[11:46] <Laney> doesn't exist though does it
[11:46] <Laney> best interface *available*
[11:46] <didrocks> I disagree that grepping on output is better than reading a file
[11:47] <Laney> if I edit this file and comment out the manual line
[11:47] <Laney> then you give the wrong answer now
[11:48] <didrocks> Laney: well, it was giving the wrong answer before as well (the fact to create the file would have given the wrong answer)
[11:48] <didrocks> and same with the enabled even before
[11:51] <Laney> I'd choose right over less wrong
[11:51] <Laney> but okay
[11:56] <larsu> Laney, the idealist
[12:09] <GunnarHj> infinity: Thanks for rescuing me yesterday. Embarrassing mistake this late in the cycle. :(
[12:15] <Laney> larsu: is there an enviornment variable to change the icon theme à la GTK_MODULES?
[12:16] <Laney> can't see anything in the docs, so I guess not
[12:36] <larsu> Laney: XDG_DATA_DIRS
[12:39] <Laney> and copy the one I want to use?
[12:40] <larsu> oh wait, I misread sorry
[12:40] <larsu> you want a different theme, not a different search path
[12:40] <larsu> that's a xsetting, no?
[12:40] <Laney> ye
[12:41] <Laney> just wanted to override it once
[12:41]  * larsu looks at the source
[12:42] <larsu> Laney: no such thing exists. You could set it in the overrides key of the xsettings g-s-d plugin
[12:43] <larsu> but then, you might as well change the icon-theme key itself
[12:43]  * Laney nods
[12:43] <Laney> I just did that
[12:43] <Laney> thanks for checking!
[12:44] <larsu> maybe it makes sense to add that?
[12:44] <larsu> I've never felt a need for it myself though
[12:44] <Laney> I use GTK_THEME from time to time
[12:44] <Laney> probably would use an icon one less frequently
[12:46] <larsu> we have kind of changed the definition of theme anyway
[12:46] <larsu> it includes icons now
[12:46] <larsu> at least in the user-facing ui
[12:47] <larsu> maybe it makes sense to formalize that and make GTK_THEME respect it?
[12:47] <Laney> you mean our UI sets both?
[12:47] <larsu> yes. It sets a lot of things
[12:47] <Laney> how does this work?
[12:47] <Laney> does the theme say what its matching icon theme is?
[12:48] <larsu> there are files somewhere in /usr/share that describe a full theme
[12:48]  * larsu tres to find them
[12:48] <Laney> ya index.theme has this
[12:49] <larsu> indeed
[12:49] <larsu> not saying we should teahc gtk about that file
[12:49] <larsu> but we could think about it
[12:50] <Laney> what does consume it now?
[12:51] <larsu> a myriad of things from xsettings, gsettings, and env variables
[13:01]  * Laney feels hungry and realises he hasn't eaten yet
[13:03] <didrocks> Laney: quick, go eating! :)
[14:08] <Laney> got to eat outside
[14:08] <Laney> SPRING!
[14:16] <ogra_> in the snow yu mean ?
[14:16] <Laney> don't curse me
[14:16] <Laney> sunny, no wind
[14:16] <Laney> it was at least 10°!
[14:16] <ogra_> nah, i cant blame you that it snows in germany since two dasys :)
[14:16] <ogra_> *days
[14:17] <Laney> you need to get yourself a jet stream
[14:18] <ogra_> heh, my house is that tall
[14:18] <ogra_> *isnt
[15:51] <Laney> seb128: do you know if https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744282 got looked at further?
[15:54] <seb128> Laney, no, desrt never got back to me here
[15:57] <Laney> that guy!
[16:09] <seb128> desrt, ^ can you comment on that please?
[16:10] <desrt> interesting
[16:11] <desrt> iirc that conversation was quite old
[16:13] <desrt> seb128: i'd be interested to know if gedit is installed in ~/.local/share or ~/.config somehow
[16:13] <seb128> desrt, yeah, well it's making apport files open in gedit rather than being sent to launchpad
[16:13] <desrt> like in a mime config file
[16:13] <seb128> no it's not
[16:13] <desrt> not even in the mimeapps?
[16:13] <seb128> it's just that glib prefers a default handler for a subtype than an handler for that exact type
[16:13] <desrt> oh.
[16:14] <seb128> text/x-crash has only one handler, apport-gtk.desktop
[16:14] <seb128> but it's a subtype of text/plain
[16:14] <desrt> but it's not in defaults.list
[16:14] <seb128> which has gedit as default handler
[16:14] <seb128> no
[16:14] <desrt> right
[16:14] <desrt> okay
[16:14] <desrt> that's a different issue from what i think i was talking to teuf about
[16:14] <seb128> but it's the only handler for that exact type
[16:14] <desrt> and i'm not 100% sure i agree that the behaviour is wrong
[16:14] <seb128> I don't think so
[16:14] <seb128> so if you have 1 handler for the exact type that should not be the one used?
[16:15] <seb128> lot of types subclass text/plain
[16:15] <desrt> not if you explicitly listed a default for the less specific type
[16:15] <seb128> it seems wrong to prefer gedit rather than the "native" handler
[16:15] <desrt> well, you could just as well add the native handler to the defaults list
[16:15] <seb128> that's a workaround
[16:15] <desrt> i'd say it's the correct solution
[16:15] <desrt> but to be honest, i'm not sure
[16:15] <desrt> and i don't think the spec says one way or the other
[16:16] <seb128> so you say it's normal that .ui files open in gedit rather than glade if glade is not set default
[16:16] <seb128> or apport files in gedit rather than apport
[16:16] <seb128> that seems backward to me
[16:16] <desrt> gimme a sec.  reading the spec.
[16:16] <seb128> thanks
[16:17] <desrt> the spec is totally oblivious to inheritence and aliasing :(
[16:17] <seb128> well to me it would make sense to pick an handler for the exact type if possible, whatever the case is
[16:17] <desrt> the patch to make the spec do what you want would be smaller than the patch to make the spec do the other thing
[16:17] <desrt> so let's assume you're right :p
[16:17] <seb128> lol
[16:18] <desrt> i'll look into it today
[16:18] <seb128> thanks
[16:23] <nrosvall> Hi, I'm working on a quite big software project. Now when Unity 8 is coming and all that new stuff I'm wondering how much Unity 7 and 8 api will be different
[16:23] <nrosvall> say indicators? will indicators written for unity 7 work with unity 8?
[16:24] <nrosvall> (not sure if this is the right place to ask)
[16:32] <desrt> new favourite bug summary: " many aspects of human life have no main category. "
[16:33] <desrt> along with a bunch of other bugs advocating the creation of main categories for things like "farm management"
[16:34]  * desrt doesn't even know what a main category is, but is pretty sure 'farm management' isn't one
[17:21] <desrt> seb128: aside: how goes the migration from defaults.list?
[17:37] <seb128> desrt, we didn't do anything for that, I've it somewhere on my list of things we should look at but forgot the detauls so needs to sit down and read what we said on that topic back then
[17:39] <desrt> basically, it ought to be renamed to gnome-mimeapps.list
[17:40] <desrt> or unity-mimeapps.list, accordingly
[17:40] <desrt> ie: defaults depend on which desktop is logged in
[17:43] <seb128> desrt, oh, right, that's good, we need to do that next cycle ... or maybe while in London ;-)
[17:43] <desrt> it is also (theroetically) supported by qt
[17:43] <desrt> defaults.list has never been
[18:03] <desrt> seb128: you've thrown me into some fun territory here
[18:03] <desrt> the "consider each type separately logic" obvious logic gets non-obvious with negative results
[18:03] <desrt> like if i have an app that is listed as both text/html and text/plain
[18:04] <desrt> and someone has removed the text/html association
[18:04] <desrt> that app could still end up opening the file on the basis of the text/plain association, if that one was not also explicitly blacklisted
[18:05] <desrt> in that case, this "handle the subtype before moving up to the supertype" logic breaks down a bit
[18:07] <desrt> seems the spec will need some deeper clarifications...
[18:08] <desrt> it gets extra hard when the super-type match comes from the defaults list but the "removed" association was made via the more specific type.  the code has absolutely no way of dealing with this possibility, at present
[18:11] <larsu> desrt: do people even use all those features? Nautilus only lets you change associations, no? Not explicitley remove them
[18:11] <seb128> I don't think we have any UI that let you remove associations
[18:12] <seb128> we just have a way to set defaults
[18:12] <larsu> right
[18:12] <larsu> and that makes this whole thing *a lot* easier
[18:12] <seb128> indeed
[18:12] <seb128> in practice you just want to say "open that type of file with this software"
[18:12]  * larsu knows that desrt likes to solve the tricky problems
[18:12] <larsu> seb128: ya...
[18:16] <seb128> mitya57, thanks for sponsoring those u-s-d/gnome-desktop3 SRUs
[18:17] <desrt> you can definitely remove associations
[18:17] <seb128> desrt, how/where?
[18:17] <seb128> you can in the spec, I just don't think we have an UI for it
[18:17] <desrt> nautilus
[18:17] <desrt> right click a file, open properties
[18:17] <desrt> go to the "open with" tab
[18:17] <desrt> right click an app
[18:17] <desrt> "forget association"
[18:17] <larsu> dude, install ubuntu
[18:18] <seb128> right click doesn't do anything here
[18:18] <desrt> well, it does on upstream nautilus
[18:18] <larsu> hm/
[18:18] <desrt> (or at least nautilus as packaged by debian)
[18:18] <larsu> seb128: right click / propeerties works for me
[18:18] <seb128> new feature in 3.16?
[18:18] <seb128> larsu, I don't have a context menu on right click here?
[18:18] <larsu> desrt: in any case, that's a questionable feature
[18:18] <desrt> i don't think so
[18:19] <desrt> if a user doesn't like an app they may very well want to break an association made at the system level
[18:19] <larsu> seb128: you don't have a context menu in nautilus?! Craziness
[18:19] <desrt> larsu: i think he means on the apps in the open-with tab
[18:19] <larsu> desrt: no, more likely they'll want to set a different app
[18:19] <desrt> seb128: it doesn't work for the default app -- only the others
[18:19] <desrt> under "recommended applications"
[18:19] <larsu> oh
[18:20] <larsu> hm, it works for *some* of the others
[18:20] <desrt> anyway
[18:20] <larsu> meh, it's neither discoverable nor useful
[18:20] <desrt> i can see what you mean
[18:20] <larsu> seb128 and I didn't even know it existed
[18:20] <desrt> removing apps is a bit weird
[18:20] <desrt> but it's something that we have in the spec since prehistoric times
[18:20] <larsu> and considering that it makes the implementation considerably simpler
[18:20] <larsu> ...
[18:20] <desrt> since before it was a spec, frankly
[18:21] <larsu> nothing we can't change
[18:21] <desrt> dunno
[18:21] <desrt> the ability to remove associations is also API
[18:21] <desrt> although we could redefine that to "this is used for breaking incorrect associations that the user made themselves"
[18:21] <desrt> not for blacklisting stuff made at a different level
[18:21] <larsu> the most sacred asset we have. API. We never break or deprecate any of it!
[18:21] <desrt> ie: if you say that gedit can open jpegs
[18:21] <desrt> and later you decide that this wasn't a good idea after all
[18:22] <desrt> then you can fix it
[18:22] <desrt> but if gedit claims MimeType=image/jpeg in its desktop file, it is there forever
[18:22] <desrt> doing this would simplify things a fair bit....
[18:23] <larsu> if gedit claims it's name is GEdti in its desktop file, it is there forever
[18:23] <desrt> larsu: where were you when we were discussing this? :p
[18:23] <larsu> desrt: glad to save you some man-hours by dropping by this channel and quipping about something I have no business in
[18:23] <desrt> i guess none of us at the table, at the time, really considered just axing that part of the spec
[18:23] <larsu> desrt: not sure. When did you discuss this?
[18:24] <larsu> in NUR?
[18:24] <desrt> ya
[18:24] <desrt> (NUE, btw)
[18:24] <larsu> oh. thanks.
[18:24] <desrt> you were there :p
[18:24] <larsu> drunk maybe? Sleeping? Talking to rishi?
[18:24] <desrt> maybe
[18:24] <desrt> it was mostly david and i arguing over it
[18:24] <desrt> i guess we could say that handling of removed apps is optional
[18:25] <larsu> sounds good to me :)
[18:25]  * desrt is not yet convinced
[18:25] <larsu> I bet KDE is of a different opinion
[18:25] <desrt> :)
[18:25] <larsu> I don't know enough to convince you all the way I'm afraid
[18:25] <desrt> i'll open a bug and see if anyone says anything
[18:25] <larsu> maybe seb128 can help
[18:26] <larsu> desrt: I love how this works sometimes... I didn't even think much when typing this into here
[18:26] <larsu> was eating some bread and idly reading the last few lines of backlog
[18:29] <desrt> ya... having some outside-the-box stuff injected is often helpful
[18:29] <desrt> unfortunately i don't think it's actually helpful for today
[18:29] <desrt> since i'm certainly not making this change in glib now
[18:29] <desrt> so i'll still have to implement this mess
[18:29] <larsu> why?
[18:29] <desrt> but the one benefit is that i can tell myself that i don't have to bother trying to explain it consistently in the spec
[18:30] <desrt> because seb wants a bug fixed now, and this 'kill remove' thing is going to take some discussion
[18:30] <larsu> what's the bug?
[18:30]  * larsu does like a five-year old and asks all the whys
[18:30] <desrt> we prefer a default app for text/plain over a non-default (but available) app for a more specific type
[18:31] <desrt> like if gedit handles text/plain and we have firefox installed, but not marked as a default for text/html
[18:31] <desrt> then gedit would be picked as the default for text/html
[18:31] <desrt> since there is no "default" for text/html
[18:31] <larsu> that's a bug indeed, but I don't see how that's related
[18:31] <larsu> hm, I think I can imagine cases where you don't want this
[18:32] <larsu> ah no, should be fine
[18:32] <desrt> the problem comes when we have gedit with its association explicitly broken for text/httml, but still capable of handling text/plain
[18:32] <desrt> do we consider the text/html "removed association" as effecting gedit's ability to handle text/plain for a file that happens to be html?
[18:32] <desrt> or do we say "well, no... we didn't find anything for text/html, and it still handles text/plain... so let's do it!"
[18:33] <desrt> ie: we move towards a place where we consider each mimetype separately, in sequence, from most specific to least specific
[18:33] <larsu> hard to say
[18:33] <desrt> but it seems that there is a reason to want this process to be not-entirely-separated
[18:33] <larsu> I think if we don't have any other app, we should let gedit open it
[18:33] <larsu> but then, I think this whole removal thing is stupid
[18:33] <desrt> ya...
[18:34] <desrt> killing off remove would solve so many open questions like this
[18:34] <desrt> and you're right -- it's pretty borderline, as far as features go
[18:37] <desrt> it solves another more general annoying problem as well
[18:37] <desrt> with respect to user intent
[18:37] <desrt> if i right click on a html file and say "remove association for gedit"
[18:37] <desrt> am i intending to do that for html files, or for all text files?
[18:37] <desrt> since gedit doesn't really explicitly list text/html
[18:37] <desrt> it's sort of a random detail that the file that i used to open that dialog happened to be html
[18:38] <desrt> what if it was something even more texty, like a desktop file, but still had its own mime entry?
[18:38] <desrt> so now i have to take care to find a real 'text/plain' text file in order to do the operation i want?
[18:38] <larsu> haha yeah
[18:39] <larsu> that's a problem with mime types anyway: some of them are more "alike" than others
[18:41] <desrt> also reduces some of the complexities in dealing with mime aliases


[13:17] <mgariepy> Hello, i saw that netplan is using https://github.com/al45tair/netifaces but the repo has been archived in 2021. is there plan to move away or take over the lib ?
[14:03] <slyon> mgariepy: right. Do you know if there's a recommended replacement for netifaces?
[14:04] <slyon> The netifaces python module is still suppored by Linux Distros like Debian or Ubuntu. But I agree we should consider switching to something more actively maintained for the upstream project.
[14:05] <slyon> mgariepy: would you mind creating a bug report about it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/netplan/+filebug and add any context/replacement that you can find? This way we won't loose track.
[17:09] <mgariepy> sure i'll open the issue.
[17:10] <mgariepy> i did saw the issue because i encounter a weird issue on 22.04 netplan. when configururing bond on top of renamed interfaces ..
[17:11] <mgariepy> and i found this.. https://github.com/al45tair/netifaces/issues/66
[17:14] <mgariepy> slyon, https://bugs.launchpad.net/netplan/+bug/2017585


[04:40] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:44] <Bashing-om> \o lotuspsychje :) Things must be settle'n down .. see ya the more often lately .
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: hey Bashing-om
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yep, house getting done bit by bit
[04:46] <Bashing-om> And Business little details taken care of ?
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: my business room needs lil more shape, tables, showroom, paint job
[04:55] <Bashing-om> not to mention a ground plane ?
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: whats a plane?
[04:58] <Bashing-om> level copper plait as the working surface :)
[04:59] <lotuspsychje> the floor?
[05:01] <Bashing-om> Kinda hard on the back and knees to work on the floor . ( but I have, I have )
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:12] <ducasse> good morning!
[07:18] <Bashing-om> ducasse: My My how time flys when having fun .
[07:19] <ducasse> yup! been busy?
[07:22] <Bashing-om> so so busy .. seems to be picking up presently .
[07:24] <ducasse> still not awake enough to be of much use, will be better after some caffeine and a smoke :)
[07:25] <Bashing-om> Uh Huh ! When you are prepared :)
[08:17] <Bashing-om> sleepy bye time for me = good nite .
[08:55] <horsewhip> So, I've got an XPS 13 with Ubuntu anda HiDPI display - anyone sorted the scaling issue with multiple monitors?
[08:56] <ducasse> maybe better to ask in #ubuntu?
[08:56] <horsewhip> Yeah, I expect so. :/
[12:12] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:13] <OerHeks> good morning BluesKaj
[12:13] <BluesKaj> 'Morning OerHeks
[14:10] <OerHeks> and .. another fix for the fix, next tuesday https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-announce/2017-February/000095.html


[08:32] <dahlia> my kubuntu box has a intel integrated gpu and a nvidia gtx 660. I want to use the nvidia for a qemu guest and the intel for kubuntu. I've been following https://davidyat.es/2016/09/08/gpu-passthrough/ and I got it so the nvidia is disabled for kubuntu and is ready to use in a VM but I can't get the x server work with the intel gpu. Any suggestions?
 Happy Kubuntu user since years here, just to thank you all girls and guys for you work.
 👍
[10:49] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[18:40] <sixpack> I added the backports ppa but in my sources in Discover it shows the ppa and also another backports... https://photos.app.goo.gl/BeKch1kbhwqaQCeQ9
[18:40] <sixpack> hope all are well and have a great day
 The 2nd backports is the Sources (non-compiled packages) ppa.


[22:03] <cody-somerville> We just released Xubuntu 9.04 last week which I'm happy to say is definitely our best release yet.
[22:03] <cody-somerville> Xubuntu 9.04 includes the latest major release of the Xfce desktop environment 4.6
[22:04] <cody-somerville> Lots of great improvements in 4.6 thanks to the hard work of the Xfce development team
[22:05] <cody-somerville> If you're interesting in taking a tour of some of these great new features, I encourage you to drop by http://www.xfce.org/about/tour
[22:06] <cody-somerville> Other notable improvements with 9.04 include: samba browsing, support for access remote network shares, a new user session switcher applet, and some really fantastic artwork.
[22:06] <GaBo> .info
[22:06] <cody-somerville> You can read more about the Xubuntu 9.04 release at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/JauntyJackalope/Final
[22:06] <cody-somerville> So, what do we have on the go for Karmic?
[22:07] <cody-somerville> Xubuntu has been getting a lot of attention with the netbook folks.
[22:08] <cody-somerville> We want to continue to make Xubuntu a great operating system to run on your netbooks so we're going to get serious about examining what makes up Xubuntu. We're going to try and skim away some of those excess libs, we're going to re-evaluate the stack of applications we offer on the desktop such as the image viewer, and we're going to be looking at processes running by default.
[22:09] <cody-somerville> We're also going to be working with upstream developers to improve the login experience by making it zippier and quicker than ever.
[22:10] <sirdiego> <3
[22:11] <cody-somerville> Another area we're going to focus on in improving offline documentation - improving not only content but also localization
 QUESTION: What about Xfce's session opening ? it's quite slow at the moment
[22:11] <cody-somerville> This is a known issue. There appears to be a regression which we hope resolve shortly.
[22:12] <cody-somerville> Finally, For Karmic, I believe we should continue to be the best looking flavour of Ubuntu ;]. We'll be updating our usplash theme, tweaking our icon theme, and possibly using a new custom gtk theme which is in the works.
[22:13] <MadGab> great :D!
[22:13] <cody-somerville> I encourage everyone to get involved and help make this all possible.
[22:14] <cody-somerville> UDS is coming up very quickly and I look forward to seeing you there or working with you remotely.
[22:14] <cody-somerville> Xubuntu is a great project to get involved in.
[22:14] <daskreech> cody-somerville: usplash still exists for Koala?
[22:14] <cody-somerville> daskreech, Thats yet to be decided.
 QUESTION: I used xubuntu a long time ago, is gdm still the one? are there plans to change to, maybe slim, in xubuntu?
[22:15] <cody-somerville> sirdiego, There may be some changes in karmic. Unfortunately, I don't have much details on this yet.
[22:16] <sirdiego> i think for xubuntu it'll be nice to have a fast dm
[22:16] <cody-somerville> I agree :)
[22:17] <JPohlmann> Being fast is not everything. Slim lacks important usability features and AFAIR it can only be controlled via keyboard shortcuts. gdm is much better at that.
 QUESTION: Did you read todays Distrowatch Weekly? Any comments?
[22:18] <cody-somerville> I have briefly read the article.
[22:19] <cody-somerville> Debian Xfce definitely has been able to develop a very light weight desktop
[22:21] <cody-somerville> However, I feel Xubuntu offers a desktop that enables a wider audience of users to be productive
[22:22] <cody-somerville> The other thing to keep in mind is that Xubuntu 9.04 comes with a much newer kernel and includes numerous booting speed improvements, while Debian does not.
[22:23] <cody-somerville> As I said, we'll be looking to improve in the area of performance and memory usage for Jaunty
[22:23] <knome> for Karmic.
[22:23] <cody-somerville> Right, thanks knome :)
[22:23] <daskreech> +1
[22:24] <cody-somerville> Anyhow, I'd now like to pass the floor to knome
[22:24] <knome> ok, so let's get forward
[22:24] <cody-somerville> knome is going to chat with us about how we can help share Xubuntu with others and get involved in marketing and artwork and all that good stuff
[22:25] <knome> in they jaunty and partly in intrepid cycle already, we have given xubuntu and it's branding a huge facelift.
[22:26] <knome> just by looking http://xubuntu.org/ you can totally say it's not something antiqueish.
[22:26] <cody-somerville> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/JauntyJackalope/Final?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=main-screenshot.png <-- screenshot of desktop
[22:26] <cody-somerville> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/JauntyJackalope/Final?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=jaunty-gdm.png <-- screenshot of gdm login screen
[22:26] <knome> and the looks, branding, and how we shout out things to people *matter* a lot on how to get people using or trying xubuntu
[22:27] <knome> on the links cody-somerville pasted you can see the artwork for xubuntu jaunty
[22:27] <knome> that artwork has gotten very much positive feedback and i'm really glad about it
[22:27] <knome> however, we do need more people.
[22:28] <knome> we ran out of time pushing a new gtk theme and a new usplash theme into jaunty.
[22:28] <knome> what we need is people telling about xubuntu for other people
[22:29] <knome> and to tell our developer community what the users really want
 QUESTION: Xubuntu seems likea good base for Schools have you looked at working with the Edubuntu project?
[22:29] <knome> cody-somerville, ^ ?
[22:29] <cody-somerville> daskreech, We have indeed. I imagine once Edubuntu gets on its feet again, we'll continue discussions with them.
[22:30] <cody-somerville> I'm also happy to report that Xubuntu is indeed already used in a number of schools around the globe.
[22:30] <knome> So, back to marketing.
[22:30] <knome> What do we have in mind for Karmic?
[22:31] <knome> first of all, we are determined to be the best looking *buntu again.
[22:31] <knome> that means we will refresh and rethink our artwork completely
[22:32] <knome> new gtk theme, new gdm theme, new wallpaper, new usplash, maybe a new icon set, ... whatever you can imagine
[22:32] <knome> and we need people for that
[22:32] <knome> to get that work done, i need help. :)
[22:33] <knome> just join #xubuntu-devel and ask about marketing.
[22:33] <knome> there is *lots* of low hanging fruit in the marketing team
[22:33] <knome> there is *lots* of things you can do and it only takes at most an hour of your week
[22:33] <knome> and what's most important
[22:34] <knome> there is *lots* of people who haven't heard of xubuntu or the amazing lightness and features of xfce
[22:34] <knome> or who think it's only for old computers or sucky monitors.
[22:34] <knome> it's not. it's for everybody.
[22:35] <knome> if you'd like to hear more from xubuntu marketing and artwork, join our session on thursday where i speak about artwork quality assurance as well OR join our irc channel #xubuntu-devel which is always warm and welcoming.
[22:35] <knome> i'll pass it to JPohlmann now, thanks for listening.
[22:36] <JPohlmann> Hey everybody
[22:36] <basajaun> hi
[22:36] <JPohlmann> I'm one of the Xfce developers and I'll be talking a bit about the 4.6 release which is part of Jaunty but I'll also discuss some of its problems and what we're planning to do in 4.8.
[22:36] <charlie-tca> basajaun: #ubuntu-classroom-chat for questions and comments
[22:37] <JPohlmann> So, we released 4.6 at the end of February after almost two years of development.
[22:37] <JPohlmann> That's a pretty long release cycle and as you might guess, 4.6 brings a lot of new features and revamped components.
[22:38] <JPohlmann> I don't know how many of you are familiar with earlier releases of Xfce but these are probably the most important changes in 4.6:
[22:38] <JPohlmann> First of all, 4.6 introduces a new configuration system called xfconf. It sounds similar to gconf and indeed it is, it's just a lot simpler in its design.
[22:39] <JPohlmann> I won't bore you with the details here (D-Bus etc.)
[22:39] <JPohlmann> However, changing the config system had a lot of implications for the rest of Xfce.
[22:39] <JPohlmann> We have improved most of our settings dialogs.
[22:40] <JPohlmann> They follow the same design guidelines now and some have been simplified a lot.
[22:40] <JPohlmann> For instance we've removed confusing things such as keyboard shortcut themes.
[22:41] <JPohlmann> But not just the settings dialogs have been improved. A lot of our applications now look much cleaner and are more usable.
[22:41] <JPohlmann> These are the appfinder, the mixer, the panel for instance.
[22:42] <JPohlmann> We also improved the standards compliance in 4.6 with libxfce4menu which is an implementation of the XDG menu specification.
[22:42] <JPohlmann> And, last but not least, session management has been improved a lot.
[22:42] <JPohlmann> For instance, you'll hardly lose your panels nowadays.
[22:42] <JPohlmann> They'll be restarted by the session maanger on crashes.
[22:43] <JPohlmann> 4.6 also has a few problems though, which most of you will directly notice.
[22:43] <JPohlmann> First of all, we had this long release cycle which means that you all had to wait for improvements for quite a while.
[22:44] <JPohlmann> QUESTION: Is XFCE a good forum for someone to learn/relearn C/C++?  Does XFCE need more devs?
[22:44] <JPohlmann> We're only six active core developers at Xfce, so we definitely need more hackers!
[22:44] <JPohlmann> Xfce is entirely written in C, so if you want to learn C and GUI programming with GTK+, it's definitely a good chance to get started.
[22:45] <JPohlmann> Ok, more problems of 4.6: menu editing support is missing. We have a few very young components such as libxfce4menu and xfce4-settings.
[22:45] <JPohlmann> And no samba shares for instance.
[22:45] <JPohlmann> (Xubuntu has that though ;))
[22:45] <JPohlmann> So in 4.8 we'll try to fix those things.
[22:45] <basajaun> and no usb support
[22:46] <JPohlmann> What exactly do you mean?
[22:46] <JPohlmann> We'll hopefully be able to release 4.8 within one year.
[22:46]  * cody-somerville hopes for six months. :P
[22:46] <JPohlmann> We also have a number of nice features in the pipes:
[22:47] <JPohlmann> I'm currently working on migrating Thunar, our file manager, to GIO/GVfs which means it'll have native (optional) support for handling Samba, SFTP, FTP etc. in the future.
[22:47] <basajaun> up to now any ntfs usb stick or drive was automatically mounted not so now
 QUESTION: Is the xfce project considering moving to a time-based release model (e.g. ubuntu)?
 QUESTION: Is the xfce project considering moving to a time-based release model (e.g. ubuntu)?
[22:47] <JayFo> jinx
[22:47] <JPohlmann> We'd like to but we suck pretty bad at being predictable ;)
[22:48] <JPohlmann> We'll try our best.
[22:48] <basajaun> lool
[22:48] <JPohlmann> Ok, more for 4.8: libxfce4menu will have menu editing support. I'm cooperating with one of the Alacarte authors on that one.
[22:49] <JPohlmann> The panel is being rewritten at the moment and will feature nice (and long missing) features like creating launchers via drag and drop.
[22:50] <JPohlmann> That's just a few things though. We're currently slowing down a bit because we're moving our development from SVN to Git and stuff like that.
[22:50] <JPohlmann> As soon as that's sorted out there will probably be more features that we're going to work on.
[22:51] <cody-somerville> w00t
[22:51] <cody-somerville> Thanks JPohlmann :)
[22:51] <cody-somerville> 4.8 sounds like its going to be a blast
[22:51] <JPohlmann> I'll let charlie-tca handle Q&A from here ;)
[22:51] <JPohlmann> Stay tuned for new features via blog.xfce.org!
[22:52] <cody-somerville> We're going to wrap up now with some final Q&A.
[22:52] <NCommander> Hey all
[22:52] <cody-somerville> oh!
[22:52] <cody-somerville> Lucky us
[22:52] <cody-somerville> NCommander is going to share with us some news and info about Xubuntu Ports
[22:52] <NCommander> as well as information on Debian-Xubuntu collaboration :-)
[22:52] <cody-somerville> Ever wondered about running Xubuntu on your playstation 3?
[22:53] <cody-somerville> NCommander is going to answer those questions
[22:53] <cody-somerville> :)
[22:53] <NCommander> Thank you cody-somerville
[22:53] <NCommander> New with 9.04 is the ability to directly run Xubuntu on your PowerMac/PowerBook, or PowerPC based iBook, as well as some IBM PowerPC desktops
[22:54] <NCommander> This also includes the Sony PlayStation 3, a platform that Xubuntu is well suited for with its lower memory requirements, and lower processor requirements
[22:55] <NCommander> For normal PowerPC based Desktops, normal LIveCDs and alternate CDs are available, as is an installation manual. Once installed, Xubuntu/powerpc is pretty much the same as Xubuntu/i386 or Xubuntu/amd64
[22:55] <NCommander> For the PlayStation 3, alternate CDs are available, which, once installed provides the same Xubuntu experience across all architectures.
[22:55] <NCommander> For general PowerPC port discussion, I recommend visiting #ubuntu-powerpc, and for PS3 discussion, visiting #ubuntu-ps3
[22:56] <NCommander> Which brings us to our final topic, collaboration between Debian and Xubuntu
[22:57] <NCommander> We enjoy a good working relationship with the Debian pkg-xfce group, with several of the Xubuntu Developers holding commit rights to pkg-xfce, and we pull from their SVN branches
[22:57] <charlie-tca> 2 minute warning
[22:57] <NCommander> As well as merge many of our bug fixing patches into their uploads; the upshot is that both Debian-Xfce and Xubuntu benefit by having more eyes review our work, and reducing our deltas from Debian (with the added bonus that many Xfce packages can simply be synced)
[22:59] <NCommander> This collaboration allowed pkg-xfce to test their 4.6 packages in a production environment (since Xubuntu based off their SVN repo for 4.6), and helped both distributions improve greatly
[22:59] <NCommander> Any questions?
[22:59] <charlie-tca> Where do I download xubuntu for the ps3?
[22:59] <NCommander> AH, good question
[23:00] <NCommander> Its available on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ports/ (which is running slow at the moment)
[23:00] <knome> We'll continue with the Q&A part in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and #xubuntu and #xubuntu-devel, if you still have something to ask.
[23:00] <charlie-tca> A big thanks to cody-somerville, knome, JPohlmann, NCommander for a great presentation!
[23:00] <jcastro> thanks everyone!
[23:00] <knome> thanks jcastro! :)
[23:00] <thegrieve> thanks all
[23:00] <NCommander> Torrents also available here: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[23:00] <NCommander> :P-)
[23:00] <NCommander> *:-)
[23:00] <basajaun> thanks
[23:00] <jcastro> mathiaz: take it away!
[23:01] <mathiaz> jcastro: thanks
[23:01] <sirdiego1> thanks, guys (=
[23:01] <mathiaz> after NCommander introduction to Xubuntu, I'll make another presentation about the Ubuntu Server Team
[23:02] <mathiaz> I'll go through who are the members of the Ubuntu Server team, what are interests.
[23:02] <mathiaz> Then I'll outlines the different hats one can wear in the Ubuntu Server Team
[23:03] <mathiaz> and I'll finish by giving practical tips on getting started in the Ubuntu Server Team
[23:03] <basajaun> bye thanks
[23:03] <mathiaz> So Who are we ?
[23:03] <mathiaz> We are a group of people that have an interest in server related software.
[23:03] <mathiaz> As an extension we tend also to deal with setups found in corporate environments, such as directory services (ldap, AD) web services, or network authentication.
[23:04] <mathiaz> Some of us are working for Canonical in the Server team, lead by Rick Clark (dendrobates on IRC).
[23:04] <mathiaz> Others have services and businesses running on Ubuntu and are interested in fixing bugs.
[23:04] <mathiaz> Regular contributors takes on important tasks and lead them to completion.
[23:04] <mathiaz> Here is a short (and incomplete) list of the features that have been developed during the last release cycle:
[23:05] <mathiaz> Dustin Kirkland (kirkland) added the possibility to create encrypted home directories. The implementation is based on the ecryptfs project. Dustin is also one of the leader in the upstream project.
[23:05] <mathiaz> For Karmic he is looking into adding this feature as an option to all users installing Ubuntu as well as a migration mechanism for saying "I didn't encrypt my home at install, but i would like to do so now!".
[23:06] <mathiaz> Help in designing, coding and testing this feature is welcome. Interested? Contact Dustin Kirkland.
[23:06]  * kirkland waves o/
[23:06] <mathiaz> Soren Hansen (soren) and Thierry Carrez (ttx) integrated Eucalyptus helping Ubuntu users to build their own EC2-like cloud.
[23:07] <mathiaz> In the domain of cloud computing official Ubuntu Server machines are available from Amazon EC2 thanks to the work of Chuck Short (zul).
[23:08] <mathiaz> Ante Karamatić (ivoks) lead an effort to improve the mail server stack in Ubuntu: postfix and dovecot are now better integrated through the dovecot-postfix package providing seamless SASL authentication.
[23:08] <mathiaz> If you're interested in helping out implementing this feature get in touch with Ante!
[23:09] <mathiaz> Adam Sommer (sommer) is our documentation guru. He reviewed and updated the Server Guide.
[23:09] <mathiaz> The virtualization section has been revamped to closely follow what has been done in the virtulization stack while the section about network authentication has been augmented to cover kerberos and its integration with openldap.
[23:09] <jcastro> (sorry, I can't tell time)
[23:10] <mathiaz> So you can see that we are a diverse group that have different interests. We're also involved in other teams from the Ubuntu project.
[23:10] <mathiaz> This is one of the characteristics of the Server Team: we all share a common interest in server technologies, but have different skills.
[23:10] <mathiaz> Being part of the team often means representing the Server Team in other areas of the Ubuntu project and the Free Sofware ecosystem in general.
[23:11] <mathiaz> Being a contributor to the server team can be taken under different roles:
[23:11] <mathiaz> The helpers answers questions on the ubuntu-server mailing list, the #ubuntu-server irc channel and the server forums.
[23:12] <mathiaz> Triagers dig into bugs the ubuntu-server LP team is subscribed to.
[23:12] <mathiaz> Our LP team is a bug contact for a list packages, such as samba, openldap, mysql or apache2.
[23:13] <mathiaz> The current list of packages can be found in Launchpad (https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+packagebugs) and is growing every release.
[23:13] <mathiaz> A mailing list gathers all the bugs related to the ubuntu-server team<EMAIL_ADDRESS>To get started in triaging signup here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server-bugs
[23:13] <mathiaz> This is a great way to start with the LP bug tracker and doesn't require any knowledge of programming languages.
[23:14] <mathiaz> We're working closely with the BugSquad team - triagers participate on the bugsquad mailing list https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/
[23:14] <mathiaz> And once in a while with have the honor of having our own HugDay where the whole bug triaging community helps us.
[23:14] <mathiaz> Once bugs have been triaged, it's time to fix them. This is when the packagers come into the game.
[23:15] <mathiaz> This role requires an interest in packaging.
[23:15] <mathiaz> We maintain a list of bugs that are easy to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+mentoring
[23:15] <mathiaz> Fixes can make their way into the ubuntu repositories via the sponsorship process as described in the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[23:16] <mathiaz> Doing work on the packaging front leads to a close a collaboration with the MOTU team and is a great way to gain experience to become a MOTU - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[23:16] <mathiaz> Testing is another way to take part of the Server Team activity. This role doesn't require a lot of deep technical knowledge.
[23:17] <mathiaz> We work with the Ubuntu QA team - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam.
[23:17] <mathiaz> Testers are taking a more and more important role the more we advance in the release cycle:
[23:17] <mathiaz> We're responsible for ensuring that the ubuntu-server isos are working correctly, which involves performing a dozen of tests for two isos.
[23:17] <mathiaz> The list of tests can be found in the wiki: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/
[23:18] <mathiaz> Results are tracked via the Iso testing tracker located at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/.
[23:18] <mathiaz> Server hardware support is another area where testing is welcome.
[23:18] <mathiaz> We're trying to make sure that ubuntu can be used on the main server hardware, so if you have access to such hardware, popping a cd into the machine, installing a standard ubuntu server and reporting whether it has successfully installed or failed is an easy way to contribute to the server team.
[23:18] <mathiaz> This work is coordinated in the ServerTesting Team wiki pages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam
[23:19] <mathiaz> rowsing the ubuntu-server mailing list archive, lurking in the #ubuntu-server irc channel or going through the forum posts shows patterns in user's questions.
[23:20] <mathiaz> Recurring themes are identified and turned into documentation. A wiki page in the community section of help.ubuntu.com is first created. Once the quality has improved, a new section is added to the server guide.
[23:20] <mathiaz> All this work is undertaken by the Documentors of the Server Team.
[23:21] <mathiaz> Collaboration with the Documentation team is done on a daily basis to achieve consistency with other help resources.
[23:21] <mathiaz> More information about the Documentation team can be found on their website located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[23:21] <mathiaz> Adam Sommer (sommer) leads the update and review of the Ubuntu Server guide. The source document is maintained in a bzr tree. Helping Adam will introduce you to docbook and distributed versioning with bazaar.
[23:22] <mathiaz> Getting started involves following 3 steps outlined in the Server Team Knowledge base: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Ubuntu%20Server%20Guide
[23:22] <mathiaz> There is also the option to go over server related wiki pages on the community help pages. A good starting point is the Server page that has links to lots of other howtos. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Servers
[23:23] <mathiaz> Another hat you can wear in the Server Team is the Developer one.
[23:23] <mathiaz> They develop new features usually specified during the Ubuntu Developer Summit that takes place at the beginning of each release cycle. Tracked by a blueprint we have around 3 months to get a new feature into Ubuntu.
[23:24] <mathiaz> As we are at the beginning of a release cycle most members of the Server Team are thinking about new features that could be implemented for Karmic. These ideas should be added to the Server Team IdeaPool page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/IdeaPool.
[23:24] <mathiaz> Anyone is welcome to give input on existing ideas and help out refining them.
[23:25] <mathiaz> As you can see, contributing to the Server Team can be undertaken in more than one way. It usually involves a lot of interaction with other teams from the Ubuntu project.
[23:25] <mathiaz> It's also a good way to show your contribution to Ubuntu and helps getting Ubuntu membership.
[23:26] <mathiaz> The GettingInvolved page gives an overview of the roles I've talked about above: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved
[23:26] <mathiaz> So how do we work ?
[23:26] <mathiaz> We track our progress on the Roadmap and meet once a week to discuss outstanding issues.
[23:27] <mathiaz> Our current work can be tracked on the Roadmap wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[23:27] <mathiaz> We use the ubuntu-server mailing to coordinate our activities, discuss policy change in the team as well as helping out users.
[23:28] <mathiaz> You can subscribe to the mailing list here: Join our mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server.
[23:29] <mathiaz> There is also an Ubuntu Server blog maintained by some members of the Server Team. Minutes of the meeting as well as other topics related to the Ubuntu Server Team activities are regularly posted there: http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/
[23:30] <mathiaz> How to join the Server Team and start contributing ?
[23:31] <mathiaz> Joining the ubuntu-server team on LP is as simple as subscribing to the ubuntu-server mailing list and applying for membership on LP https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/
[23:32] <mathiaz> If you already know which role you'd like to contribute as, you can find a list of tasks in the Roadmap. Don't hesitate to ask one of the team members involved in your area of interest.
[23:32] <mathiaz> Most of the information related to the ServerTeam can be found in the ServerTeam wiki pages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam.
[23:33] <jcastro> mathiaz: you might want to open it up for questions soon, people are getting antsy. :)
[23:33] <mathiaz> If you're overwhelmed by all the available information and you're lost, come talk to me. You can find me in #ubuntu-server amongst other channels. I'll help get out of the mist and we'll find a way you can get involved in the Server Team.
[23:34] <mathiaz> Allright - I'm going to answer the questions from -chat.
[23:34] <mathiaz> I'm sorry that I haven't specified this at the begining of my session.
[23:35] <mathiaz> 18:12 < somnoliento> QUESTION: Jono asked a while back about a possible tighter integration between client and server. Is this a current area of interest/development?
[23:35] <mathiaz> somnoliento: yes. We're looking at ways to get better integration.
[23:36] <mathiaz> It depends on the applications considered and especially the environment in which the Ubuntu infrastructure will be deployed.
[23:37] <mathiaz> Some things such as Single Sign On support is looked at: so that you can use your evolution mail client and connect to the mail server without having to enter a username and password for your IMAP accounts or for sending email.
[23:38] <mathiaz> Another example would be for intranets where a user using firefox would authenticate automatically to internal web servers.
[23:39] <mathiaz> 18:13 < pwnguin> QUESTION: Does the server team have a preferred tool for backing up servers and desktops?
[23:39] <mathiaz> pwnguin: one of the official package (ie in main) for backup is bacula
[23:40] <mathiaz> pwnguin: backuppc is also in main and can be used for backups.
[23:40] <mathiaz> pwnguin: however bacula support tapes and robotic libraries which are often used in corporate environements.
[23:41] <mathiaz> 18:14 < RoAkSoAx> QUESTION: What about packages like Heartbeat, Keepalived, ipvsadm, ldirectord, etc, why is server team not suscribed to them?
[23:42] <mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: we aren't subscribed to every possible package. We tend to add them whenever we come across them.
[23:42] <hal14450> cprofitt, at least i can time shift irc easily enough ;-)
[23:43] <mathiaz> There are thousands of packages in the archive - we haven't conducted an exhaustive review of which packages should be server related.
[23:44] <RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, But, for example, i do think those packages are importante since companies tend to use, or at least are trying to handle clusters, so those packages should be important for the server team.
[23:44] <mathiaz> We should also be careful about adding too many packages - doing so would increase the number of bug mails, which usually means that people tend to ignore them
[23:45] <mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: agreed.
[23:45] <RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, i do think they are important.. and i do offer myself to implement howtos for the server guide on most of them :)
[23:45] <mathiaz> The specific packages you gave are more oriented towards high-availibilty. May a team could be created to gather people interested in that specific area
[23:46] <mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: awesome! thanks for the offer.
[23:46] <saketh> when is the next session in pacific time?
[23:47] <mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: you should get in touch with sommer - I'm sure he'll gladly accept more sections to the server guide
[23:47] <RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, that's an awesome Idea! you guys should discuss that in the next UDS (since i'm not attending) and I offer myself to colaborate in High availability related stuff
[23:49] <mathiaz> 18:15 < somnoliento> QUESTION: Could you explain Eucalyptus in about ten words? (none of them being EC2?) in other words, who could do what with it?
[23:49] <mathiaz> an open-source software infrastructure for implementing "cloud computing" on clusters
[23:50] <mathiaz> Based on virtualization technology (such as kvm) it supports starting, stoping guests on a multiple machines.
[23:51] <mathiaz> 18:50 < pwnguin> QUESTION: how many nodes should I have before eucalyptus makes sense?
[23:52] <mathiaz> pwnguin: I don't have a specific number.
[23:52] <pwnguin> wags are acceptable :)
[23:52] <mathiaz> I think what matters is how many users would be serviced.
[23:52] <mathiaz> eucalyptus makes it simple to deploy and manage new guests on nodes.
[23:53] <mathiaz> whether you run one, five or hundreds of nodes isn't so important
[23:53] <mathiaz> (by node I refer to the physical systems that are running hypervisors)
[23:55] <mathiaz> If there are more questions ask them in ubuntu-classroom-chat and I'll try to answer them in the remaning minutes
[23:55] <jcastro> 5 minute warning!
[23:56] <mathiaz> 18:55 < pwnguin> QUESTION: what's the most important next step to take if someone wants to participate with the ubuntu server team?
[23:56] <mathiaz> The GettingInvolved page gives an overview of the roles I've talked about above: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved
[23:57] <mathiaz> If you already have an are of interests, start looking at bugs for the relevant packages.
[23:58] <mathiaz> Allright - if there aren't any questions anymore I'd like to thank you all for attending.
[23:58] <jcastro> thanks Mathias!
[23:58] <mathiaz> If you have any questions you can stop by #ubuntu-server or email me
[23:59] <jcastro> cprofitt: we'll give everyone a 2 minute break, then you can begin!
[23:59]  * cprofitt nods


[08:36] <sakrecoer> brainstorm request: what happens with motion in the second part here? http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/graphics0001-0120.avi
[08:37] <sakrecoer> likr.. different spin?,  bouncing icon? :D
[08:40] <sakrecoer> likr.. different spin?,  bouncing icon? :D ↑
[08:41] <sakrecoer> argh... tried to make a ping to geirdal and automna with a utf8 arrow upward :D
[09:04] <sakrecoer> wb back cub! :)
[09:34] <cub> hi sakrecoer
[09:39] <sakrecoer> cub: can i borrow some of your brain power? :) what happens to the second part in here? sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/graphics0001-0120.avi how should the workflow logo and text be animated?
[09:39] <sakrecoer> now clickable: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/graphics0001-0120.avi
[11:23] <cub> sakrecoer: not sure what you mean? I think it looks very good as it is
[11:25] <sakrecoer> cub: i'm not sure either :D i feel like there could be something sexier going on... just not sure what.. i've made it slower tho, 8 seconds instead of 4
[11:26] <sakrecoer> greidal (aka Guest45743 ) OvenWerks autumna, what do you think about this theme? http://killhellokitty.deviantart.com/art/DeLorean-Dark-1-55-318612217 maybe too dark? it works with everything as far as i can see...
[11:27] <cub> yeah it was quite fast the one I saw
[11:42] <sakrecoer> so you don't need to install the theme: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_13-39-35.png the sliders aren't the best i think... but i like it overall..
[11:43] <sakrecoer> qt looks nice too... but.. maybe that is normal :D
[11:44] <sakrecoer> oh... but kdenlive looks really bad in it...
[11:45] <sakrecoer> no, actauly, when kdenlive is set to its dark theme it works very well...
[11:51] <sakrecoer> but its sometimes too hard to find the border of a window, i think that breaks it for us... check this out, kdenlive on the left and 2 gnome apps on the right, try to figure out where gnome software ends and where fontmanager starts... http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_13-48-12.png
[12:03] <sakrecoer> yeah... gnome windows have now shadow beneath...
[12:03] <sakrecoer> *no shadow
[12:09] <sakrecoer> fixed in a later version apparently.. i like this, but it's risky... http://killhellokitty.deviantart.com/art/DeLoreanDark3-10-8-05232014-408652063
[12:11] <sakrecoer> this killhellokitty person is good at dark themes.. http://killhellokitty.deviantart.com/gallery/
[12:39] <autumna> sakrecoer: I like the image
[12:40] <autumna> I would need to try it out through
[12:41] <autumna> question when we package things, can we create defaults for the software? e.g. have the kdenlive be using the dark theme when ubuntustudio is installed?
[12:47] <autumna> sakrecoer: re the titlecard  I don't think you need any more motion, I would slow down a bit the ubuntu studio and the title scenes in all your title cards through, just to give a moment for the watcher to read
[12:52] <sakrecoer> cool! i'll upload it slowed-down. i also added a sample from the ubuntu-sound pack.
[12:52] <sakrecoer> autumna: i wish to know that too, that would be awsome! (kdenlive defaults)
[12:52] <sakrecoer> i settled for this one: http://thearakattack.deviantart.com/art/Unite-the-3rd-Release-539669420
[12:53] <sakrecoer> but i use "daloa" for the window style. it's blue very close to ubuntstudio blue. makes it easier to know what window is in focus
[12:53] <sakrecoer> i think i'm going to reach out to the author
[12:58] <autumna> sakrecoer: personally I like the square style
[12:59] <sakrecoer> autumna: you mean the window style?
[12:59] <sakrecoer> if yes: its nice, but so big!
[12:59] <autumna> window style of the theme yes
[12:59] <autumna> heh
[13:00] <sakrecoer> autumna: also, its one of those where it almost impossible to grab the edge
[13:01] <autumna> ugh
[13:01] <sakrecoer> almost all window style i find are like that... but daloa works fine
[13:01] <autumna> I have my custom window style for xfce
[13:01] <autumna> which I adjusted to be easier to grab, but then again it isn't exactly for public consumption
[13:02] <autumna> (too decorated)
[13:02] <autumna> I am not sure how to theme the gtk through
[13:02] <sakrecoer> autumna: nice! something you have done yourself?
[13:02] <autumna> yeah, I just used one of the default window themes as template, and worked up from it
[13:03] <sakrecoer> care for a screenshot share? :)
[13:03] <autumna> doing so. one sec
[13:08] <autumna> (this would go easier if I hadn't misplaced my ftp password *sighs* one sec)
[13:08] <sakrecoer> hehe :)
[13:12] <sakrecoer> so the resolution is still crap, and the sampling of the ray tracer is low, hence very dirty... but it gives the idea.. http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/graphics0001-0240.avi
[13:12] <sakrecoer> (just a sketch render basicaly)
[13:14] <autumna> http://autumnus.net/temp/windowstyle.png
[13:15] <autumna> that looks good, if I wanted to nitpick, the ubuntustudio bit can go a tiny tiny bit faster
[13:15] <autumna> whoops forgot to tag sakrecoer
[13:15] <autumna> ;D
[13:20] <sakrecoer> interesting style autumna ... it's like mix between old and nu-school
[13:20] <sakrecoer> i kindof like it...
[13:21] <autumna> if I wanted to make this for other people I would probably make the inner bit pure black so that it fit with a variety of color setups
[13:21] <sakrecoer> or transaparent :p
[13:21] <sakrecoer> (if by "inner bit" you mean the green and the brown line)
[13:21] <autumna> it works for me, but probably not for everyone ;D (and as I said, no gtk (I think) window styling, because I need to sit down and figure out how
[13:22] <autumna> not transparent. if you make it transparent then you run into the "cannot grab the edge" problem.
[13:22] <autumna> yes that is what I mean
[13:23] <sakrecoer> transparency becomes a hole?
[13:23] <autumna> (it also doesn't have a distinction between active and inactive windows which I don't mind, but then again, can bother people)
[13:23] <autumna> yes
[13:23] <sakrecoer> the color has no alpha-channel?
[13:23] <sakrecoer> :'(
[13:23] <autumna> yeah, same reason as far as I could tell, you cannot do partial transparency
[13:25] <sakrecoer> hmm... i'm pretty sure gtk3 has partial transparency, but it seems to be a jungle... like, to create theme that makes a desktop uniform, you pretty much have to lern 345196k different themes layout syntax :D
[13:25] <autumna> yeah
[13:25] <autumna> it is one of those "I have been meaning to finish this one day" projects (You can tell by now that I have many of them)
[13:26] <autumna> I might however actually finish this one, because gtk default window style really looks strange when put together with this
[13:26] <sakrecoer> (^^,)
[13:30] <autumna> :)
[13:31] <sakrecoer> what i struggle to find is a monochrome icon theme that i like...
[13:32] <sakrecoer> that ghost.icon thing is nice, but so many are missing, and its a bit... fat...
[13:33] <autumna> *nods*
[13:39] <sakrecoer> http://www.noobslab.com/2013/07/nouvegnome-color-and-gray-icon-sets-for.html but again... so many missing, the point is lost :D
[13:39] <sakrecoer> also kindof... fat
[13:43] <autumna> I try to not do too much customization of that sort.
[13:43] <sakrecoer> interesting: http://pobtott.deviantart.com/art/Any-Color-You-Like-175624910
[13:43] <autumna> there will always be a program that is missing its icon
[13:44] <sakrecoer> this program applies filters to any icon-set
[13:44] <autumna> nice
[13:44] <sakrecoer> last commen was 4h ago and well... it says a lot :D
[13:44] <sakrecoer> no source... wtf... :D
[13:46] <sakrecoer> oh.. but... doesnt' look like it has binaries...
[13:53] <sakrecoer> well.. it says "gnome-panel: no process found" but it works...
[13:59] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: Re: theme... which window is in focus?
[14:01] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: sorry, i moved forward to this one http://thearakattack.deviantart.com/art/Unite-the-3rd-Release-539669420
[14:01] <sakrecoer> but i use daloa so the focused window becomes visible
[14:02] <sakrecoer> just a sec, i'll show you..
[14:07] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_16-06-09.png
[14:07] <sakrecoer> now... never mind them orange icons :D
[14:10] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: looks ok, how easy is it to grab a side or a corner for resize?
[14:10] <sakrecoer> with daloa: super easy
[14:10] <sakrecoer> much easier then our current default actualy
[14:11] <OvenWerks> Then I am fine with it.
[14:11] <OvenWerks> For me the two usability things are easy to tell focus and window handle access.
[14:12] <sakrecoer> \(^^,)/ and i agree! anyways, we still have little time to fiddle arround and try stuff. i will try reach out to the author of that theme... see what can happen :)
[14:13] <OvenWerks> How do the dialog windows in Ardour look? (and the meter bridge?)
[14:14] <sakrecoer> they look good...
[14:14] <sakrecoer> as far as i have tried...
[14:14]  * OvenWerks is trying to remember any ardour complaints that were solved by changing theme.
[14:14] <sakrecoer> import, plugins, atc...
[14:14] <sakrecoer> *etc...
[14:15] <OvenWerks> Those ones if one works they all will. Meter bridge is important as many people want to be able to see that from some distance.
[14:15] <OvenWerks> Ardour 5.* will have themes again.
[14:16] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: meterbridge...?
[14:16] <sakrecoer> you mean... the mixers... ehm... VU bars? :D
[14:16] <OvenWerks> window->meterbridge
[14:16] <sakrecoer> yeah, looks good
[14:16] <OvenWerks> it uses a different set of colours than the mixer strips.
[14:17] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_16-17-14.png
[14:18] <OvenWerks> :) :) that is the tiniest meter bridge I have ever seen...
[14:19] <OvenWerks> (but it does work fine)
[14:19] <sakrecoer> :) i haven't enabled my monster card, nor my MB 8 outputs :D
[14:19] <sakrecoer> most of all,, its an empty project :D
[14:20] <sakrecoer> (i've never seen it before, this meterbridge :D)
[14:20] <sakrecoer> will sure take advantage of it in the future <3
[14:20] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I rarely use more than two Audio inputs. But even for something with no drums or keyboard I use 9 to 15 tracks.
[14:20] <sakrecoer> ya.. i saw later that it displays the tracks :)
[14:21] <OvenWerks> my standard test session is three audio tracks, 3 midi tracks, one audio bus, one midi bus and one VCA. these days.
[14:22] <OvenWerks> The other application to try is qtracktor.
[14:24] <sakrecoer> hm... plugin window is empty...
[14:24] <sakrecoer> ... in qtractor
[14:24] <sakrecoer> anyways, here is how it looks: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_16-24-00.png
[14:25] <OvenWerks> try it with View->Options->Display->Color Theme Wonton Soup and Motif
[14:26] <OvenWerks> If that is without any internal changes that is fine.
[14:27] <sakrecoer> doesn' look as good (more win95)
[14:27] <sakrecoer> but it seems to work
[14:27] <sakrecoer> here is the mixer (with defult theme)  http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_16-25-10.png
[14:27] <OvenWerks> If the default picks up the system that is fine.
[14:30] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: here with wonton...
[14:30] <sakrecoer> http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_16-28-37.png
[14:30] <sakrecoer> oh... but that is not what you asked for... wait a sec
[14:30] <sakrecoer> that is not wonton.. its motif.. the theme. not the colors...
[14:32]  * OvenWerks likes motif window handles :)
[14:32] <OvenWerks> (if nothing else)
[14:33] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: this time with wonton colors: http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/Screenshot_2016-06-07_16-32-11.png
[14:33] <sakrecoer> (default theme tho :D)
[14:34] <OvenWerks> either way... the more I see the more I think I am not so picky as other people about colours.
[14:35] <sakrecoer> is qtractor non-destructive?
[14:36] <OvenWerks> I don't really know. It is not my favourite tool, so I don't use it much. I am more of a tape recorder person.
[14:38] <sakrecoer> hm... with wonton colors, the text in the labels when hovering over a button disapears... in default colors its is fine tho...
[14:40] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: no one will go changing colours if the default looks right.
[14:45] <sakrecoer> :)
[19:51] <Guest45743> hi :) why am I Guest43
[19:56] <geirdal> Hi again
[20:00] <OvenWerks> geirdal: I think your irc client needs to know how to log in...
[20:00] <geirdal> ?
[20:01] <geirdal> Ilogged out and back in
[20:01] <OvenWerks> seems to have worked.
[20:01] <geirdal> know  Im geirdal again
[20:01] <geirdal> :)
[20:04] <geirdal> Sacrecoer: I like the theme this is something that I was takling about. Ilike ghost icons because theyare flat and simple ofcourse it can be better.
[20:08] <geirdal> it does not even need to be that dark, just darker than what is by default!
[20:09] <geirdal> I will do some mockups of icons
[20:18] <geirdal> And yes I will draw all of them by hand If there is no better way!
[20:47] <geirdal> Dont like NOX theme makes me sleepy, looks like it is in fog and has light (main areas?)
[20:55] <geirdal> What is the most complete icon them for ubuntustudio? Do you know?
[21:23] <geirdal> theme
[22:03] <OvenWerks> geirdal: there really isn't one.
[22:03] <OvenWerks> geirdal: the icons for the menu are in -menu
[22:05] <OvenWerks> geirdal: the rest (maybe three) are in -icon-theme
[22:07] <geirdal> Inkscape do not have dark theme, but a global theme makes it dark!ok. But the icons look like something from my little pony, it almost got all the colors that is available it looks like a toy! It is not possible to take it serious.I take Inkscapes icons and open them with Inkscape, put them to grayscale and save them. Only this is so much better.
[22:08] <OvenWerks> geirdal: the icon theme has the distro icon and a couple of application icons that are missing (hexter and hdspmixer maybe?)
[22:09] <OvenWerks> geirdal: the menu icons are in the menu package because the icones have to be there even if the user chooses another icon theme.
[22:09] <geirdal> ok thanks
[22:11] <OvenWerks> geirdal: the menu icons can be replaced inside the menu package... or if different (light and dark) Studio icon themes are envisioned, they can be put in the theme package and they will override the ones in the menu package
[22:14] <geirdal> ok
[22:24] <geirdal> Can you post the directions? Iam looking here /usr/share/menu no luck :/
[22:26] <geirdal> but I finde icons there
[22:28] <OvenWerks> :)
[22:28] <OvenWerks> you want to find the icons in an istalled system? or in the package?
[22:29] <geirdal> I have installed system? yes
[22:31] <OvenWerks> I guess same place anyway. /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/categories
[22:31] <geirdal> installed system
[22:31] <OvenWerks> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-menu/trunk/files/head:/usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/categories/
[22:31] <OvenWerks> Hmm, also: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-menu/trunk/files/head:/usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/categories/
[22:33] <OvenWerks> The thing to remember is that all icons themes are supposed to inherit the hicolor theme at some point... it may be a theme inherits hicolor which is then inherited by another. etc.
[22:33] <geirdal> ok this is some point to start with :) thanks
[22:34] <OvenWerks> So, most applications install their icons to hicolour.
[22:34] <OvenWerks> Then the theme can inherit and override.
[22:34] <OvenWerks> Any icons that you don't redo just show from hicolor.
[22:36] <OvenWerks> As a last resort... pixmaps is checked. (some applications still put stuff in there :P  )
[22:38] <geirdal> ok hehe this is alot but I will start frome here :)
[22:43] <OvenWerks> geirdal: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/0.6/
[22:43] <OvenWerks> there is a Directory Layout.
[22:43] <geirdal> Iam reading this https://specifications.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-latest.html
[22:44] <OvenWerks> That should be the same
[22:44] <OvenWerks> Oh maybe not. yes that is the better one.
[22:45] <geirdal> :)
[22:47] <OvenWerks> It is funny there is both a .11 and a .12, both say .11 inside
[22:48] <OvenWerks> However .12, even though it says it is .11, does have .12 in the change log.
[23:16] <geirdal> I have to start somewhere! Right?
[23:38] <geirdal> Also category Graphic design should be visual Production! makes more sence, graphic artist are not all graphic designers!


[18:59] <Jul> Hi there, I ve got an issue after updating edubuntu : ask for an "MSI login" but I don't known what is that !
[19:01] <Jul> I tried edubuntu login but it's not working


[02:01] <bjsnider> i'm getting stuck uploading the last 1k of a source package
[02:25] <Exbte> Launchpad is publishing email addresses to Google
[02:26] <mwhudson> Exbte: where
[02:26] <Exbte> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/
[02:26] <mwhudson> that's not launchpad
[02:26] <Exbte> everything on launchpad is archived there
[02:27] <Exbte> along with email addresses
[02:27] <Exbte> I've never posted to a mailing list yet
[02:27] <Exbte> I've never posted to a mailing list*
[02:27] <mwhudson> er, the launchpad mailing lists aren't there
[02:28] <mwhudson> (the ones hosted on launchpad i mean, some of the lists there are launchpad-related)
[02:28] <Exbte> Well a Google search for my email returns launchpad entries I made, my email address+launchpad username
[02:30] <mwhudson> got a link?  you can privmsg it to me if you don't want to paste it publically?
[09:21] <mok0> I am considering creating an LP project, that tracks the developers svn distribution on Google code. Merely as a convenient way to work with it, so I can use a bzr branch to work on the packaging. Does someone have an example of a project that functions in a similar way?
[09:22] <mok0> (I know there are lots, just need a specific example)
[09:23] <bigjools> I know that mythtv does that but they just switched to git
[09:26] <mok0> bigjools: thanks I'll check it out
[09:27] <mok0> (I also prefer git as a DVCS, but LP is really a useful tool for a project. Now if LP used git... *pinch arm* :))
[09:29] <maxb> half of my related projects are ones I've registered just to have a vcs-import :-)
[09:29] <mok0> maxb, examples?
[09:30] <mok0> maxb: I'd like to spy on what you've done :-)
[09:30] <mok0> Mostly I need inspiration on how to write a proper project description
[09:30] <maxb> I leave them blank or copy text from the project's upstream homepage
[09:33] <mok0> maxb, thanks for your input
[09:53] <mok0> how long does it take for LP to import the project?
[10:05] <bigjools> I've seen git, and it made me itch
[10:05] <mok0> bigjools: in a good or a bad way?
[10:05] <bigjools> in an STD kind of way
[10:05] <mok0> heh
[10:05]  * Tak agree
[10:06] <bigjools> I don't know how long project import takes, mrevell?
[10:07] <mok0> It just says  "This branch has not been imported yet" and I am unsure if I need to do more, or just wait
[10:07] <mrevell> Importing a git branch? I think we run the imports once an hour or so
[10:07] <mrevell> mok0, Do you have a link to the branch overview page?
[10:07] <mok0> mrevell: it's an svn module from google code
[10:07] <mok0> mrevell https://code.launchpad.net/coot
[10:08] <mrevell> mok0, Leave it an hour or two and it the import should begin, I believe.
[10:08] <mok0> mrevell: great thanks!
[10:09] <mrevell> mok0, Ping if you have no luck.
[10:09] <mok0> mrevell: will do
[10:12] <mok0> It's not obvious to me how to register the Google code bug tracker
[10:14] <mok0> Ah
[10:16] <soren> mok0, mrevell: Git imports start almost immediately. The one for https://code.launchpad.net/coot already ran once (32 minutes ago according to https://code.launchpad.net/~mok0/coot/trunk).
[10:16] <soren> ...and failed.
[10:17] <soren> mok0: It looks a bit odd that it's a git import, but the URL has "svn" in it.
[10:17] <soren> mok0: Is that accurate?
[10:17] <mok0> soren: yes
[10:17] <mok0> I don't get it
[10:17] <mrevell> Thanks soren
[10:17] <mrevell> jelmer, are you able to help?
[10:17] <soren> mok0: What makes you think it's git? http://code.google.com/p/coot/source/checkout only mentions svn.
[10:18] <mok0> soren, I didn't configure anything, just gave it the URI
[10:18] <soren> mok0: One of the things you choose on the vcs import page is the revision control system.
[10:18] <mok0> I believe I did tell it somewhere that it is an svn module
[10:18] <soren> mok0: You can't skip it :)
[10:18] <mok0> soren: indeed
[10:19] <soren> mok0: This is likely your problem. You accidentally chose git.
[10:19] <mok0> Hm /me is puzzled
[10:19] <soren> mok0: I'd just remove that import again and create a new one, making sure to choose svn.
[10:19] <glen> does launchpad ticket system have irc bot? one that could spam my irc #channel about new tickets?
[10:19] <soren> Mind you, svn imports need to be reviewed before they start, so it may take a while.
[10:19] <soren> glen: no
[10:20] <glen> soren: but any script i could use?
[10:20] <soren> glen: Ubottu (the Ubuntu IRC bot) does it quite well. The code is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bots/ubuntu-bots/devel
[10:24] <mok0> Is there a way to put bold text in the description? HTML tags are just quoted
[10:33] <mok0> soren, svn imports reviewed, by a human?
[10:34] <soren> mok0: Yes.
[10:34] <mok0> soren, is there a technical reason for that, or what gives?
[10:34] <mok0> (just curious)
[10:34] <soren> mok0: 15:01 < jelmer> tumbleweed, soren: with svn some users register the root of the repository rather than a separate directory/branch which can result in huge load and disk usage on the importers and heavy network load on the repository
[10:35] <mok0> ah, of course
[10:35] <mok0> soren, it is not obvious that you need to give the URL of the module. In the subversion way, you'd pass the base URL + a module name
[10:36] <mok0> (AFAIR)
[10:36] <wgrant> That's CVS.
[10:36] <wgrant> SVN is a single URL.
[10:36] <mok0> wgrant: you are probably right. It's been a while since I last used svn
[10:37]  * mok0 shakes head in the hope the loose pieces fall into place...
[10:37] <jelmer> we have some code in bzr-svn that should be able to tell with reasonable certainty that the specified path refers to a branch and not to e.g. a repository root
[10:37] <jelmer> that code still needs to be hooked up with the new imports page
[10:37] <jelmer> s/with/to/
[10:38] <mok0> jelmer: that would be a nice improvement
[11:00] <mok0> jelmer, thanks for approving, looks like it's importing now
[12:33] <geser> is it possible to derive from bug importance a rough estimate when it might get fixed? so I can judge better if I should wait for the fix (e.g. if it will get fixed within a few weeks) or work-around it somehow (if it takes longer)
[12:53] <deryck> geser: it's hard to judge from importance when a bug will be fixed.
[12:53] <deryck> geser: do you mean across all projects on Launchpad, or just for launchpad's own bugs?
[12:54] <geser> deryck: for Launchpad's own bugs, more precisely: bug 690356
[12:55] <deryck> geser: so bigjools could probably speak to that bug particularly, but generally, given how many bugs are open against Launchpad, low bugs can go a long time before being fixed.  unless a dev is working in that area of the code.
[12:55] <bigjools> geser: unless it's obviously a large impact bug it gets a low priority
[12:56] <bigjools> geser: you could talk nicely to wgrant or StevenK and they might fix it for you this week :)
[12:56] <geser> thanks, will try it
[12:57] <bigjools> or you could fix it!
[12:57] <wgrant> I will probably get to it this week or next if you don't.
[12:57] <wgrant> But I would strongly encourage you to try.
[12:58] <geser> I planned to start looking at LP code but didn't find time for it in the last months. This would be a good opportunity.
[12:59] <wgrant> It's a rather nice trivial bug to start with.
[13:00] <geser> I guess I need a lucid VM to run the launchpad code in it to be able to test a fix, right?
[13:00] <wgrant> It runs fine on Maverick too. I haven't tested Natty.
[13:00] <wgrant> But most of the developers run it on Maverick.
[13:01] <geser> ok, then a maverick VM
[13:01] <geser> is it suggest to use a VM or do most devs run it on the "normal" system?
[13:02] <wgrant> A VM is easy and clean.
[13:02] <wgrant> I normally run it on my real system, though.
[13:03] <wgrant> Hard to say.
[13:03] <wgrant> Either way works.
[13:04] <geser> I give it a try on my natty system and switch to a maverick VM if that fails
[13:05] <wgrant> Sounds like a plan.
[13:08] <wgrant> 'night all.
[15:40] <CarlFK> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/software-properties/natty/annotate/head%3A/debian/changelog
[15:40] <CarlFK> why is "for" hilighted?
[15:41] <tsimpson> probably using python highlighting for some reason
[15:41] <CarlFK> and "use", "80", "and", " gtkbuilder" and a few other
[15:41] <CarlFK> tsimpson: that was my guess.
[15:41] <benji> CarlFK: looks like syntax highlighting gone awry
[15:42] <CarlFK> weird: /software-properties/gtkbuilder
[15:43] <CarlFK> I wonder why it chopped the g from gtkbuilder
[15:43] <CarlFK> it is having a nervous breakdown
[15:44] <benji> some crazy hungarian notation flashbacks?
[15:44] <tsimpson> maybe because /.../g is regex
[15:44] <tsimpson> g, i, and x would do the same iirc
[15:45] <CarlFK> hungarian... wow, I remember that.   and I remember thinking I would not be able to live without it.
[15:47] <CarlFK> I know some python, and I don't think
[15:47] <CarlFK> yeah, I don't think any  more.. lets try that again..
[15:48] <CarlFK> I know some python, and I don't think "last" or "new"  are keywords
[15:48] <tsimpson> maybe it's perl
[20:22] <bjsnider> i'm being stopped from uploading any orig tarball to any ppa. it always freezes at the last 1k
[20:23] <bjsnider> i've tried upload.ubuntu.com as well
[20:27] <radii> hi, I can't create a new account on launchpad.net for my primary email address because apparently my email somehow got associated with a throwaway account i created years ago.
[20:28] <radii> so when I try to "create a new account", LP sends the throwaway account an email saying "Launchpad Login Service: Warning  We've received a request to create a new account with your email address."
[20:29] <radii> if I log into the throwaway account, I can't find the relevant email address mentioned anywhere in the UI.
[20:46] <mwhudson> why does https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+package/u-boot-linaro-omap3-beagle have three links to the same published version?
[21:48] <CarlFK> radii: there has to be an option to change email.. I am looking for it
[21:48] <CarlFK> im just a user, so don't take my word for anything
[21:49] <radii> CarlFK: thanks :)
[21:49] <CarlFK> https://login.launchpad.net "Manage email addresses" -> https://login.launchpad.net/+emails
[21:50] <CarlFK> "Enter your email address, and we will send you instructions on how to verify it."  oh oh.
[21:50] <CarlFK> oh, maybe it will send to the new addres
[21:50] <CarlFK> either way, that's all I got
[21:51] <radii> CarlFK: awesome, yes the offending email was listed there
[21:51] <CarlFK> woot!  i'm helping!
[21:51] <radii> I logged in to the old account and removed the "unverified" address
[21:51] <radii> now opefully I can create a new account using the correct address
[21:51] <radii> sweet
[21:51] <radii> but first I ahve to go to 3 meetings for $REALJOB :(
[21:52] <radii> thanks CarlFK
[21:53] <CarlFK> good luck with the j o b.
[22:56] <AJenbo> Hi i haven't been able to use BZR to get any projects for months now
[22:56] <AJenbo> last time i was told to wait a bit till some bug was fixed, i that can't be the issue here
[22:56] <AJenbo> Permission denied (publickey).
[22:57] <AJenbo> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message.
[22:57] <AJenbo> bzr branch lp:~dpm/ubuntu-translations/ul10n-stats
[22:59] <mwhudson> that suggests your local ssh key setup isn't right
[23:01] <AJenbo> mwhudson, that my ssh key isn't uploaded to my lp account?
[23:01] <mwhudson> that's one possible reason, yeah
[23:05] <AJenbo> ok seams to work now, thanks