[05:31] <tjaalton> bdmurray: thanks, I'll move it to x-x-v-ati-lts-xenial
[05:36] <tjaalton> and uploaded ^
[08:49] <happyaron> hi, anyone can look at the SRU queue of xenial for network-manager?
[09:35] <LocutusOfBorg> any archive admin, please remove gitit on arm64 (will be probably removed in Debian too, to let haskell migrate) same failure here
[09:35] <LocutusOfBorg> and also please accept haskell-yesod-auth-oauth2
[10:21] <alf_> Hi! unity-system-compositor is blocked in proposed due to autopkgtest build problems in unity8 (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/yakkety/update_excuses.html#unity-system-compositor). The problems are not related to unity-system-compositor. Is there a way to unblock this without waiting for unity8 to fix its test?
[11:15] <alf_> Laney: Hi! Is ^^ something you could help with?
[11:17] <Mirv> ^ needs rerun with --all-proposed
[11:18] <Laney> ok
[11:18] <alf_> Laney: Mirv: thanks!
[11:18] <Laney> it is running
[14:38] <dbarth_> hey bdmurray, are you the vanguard for the verification process today?
[14:39] <dbarth_> i have this patch siloed with an SRU fix; went through the citrain qa: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1669
[14:40] <dbarth_> i'm re-running the automated tests for it, after a rebuild and manual check
[14:40] <dbarth_> my question: do i need a verification-needed tag? or can proceed with -done thanks to citrain/qa ?
[14:47] <bdmurray> dbarth_: I don't see anything in xenial-proposed fixing that so verification seems premature.
[15:26] <dbarth_> bdmurray: ok thanks; so it needs to land there; i'll see with the ci process
[15:50] <Mirv> I think that one armhf is more like stuck than in progress http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#ffmpeg ?
[15:50] <Mirv> stuck / stale lock file or such
[16:05] <Mirv> hmm it seems I can craft the request url too. I don't know however why the armhf was run with "versionless" package
[16:05] <Mirv> a missing dpkg-dev (from the test log) is a bit suspicious too
[16:07] <infinity> Mirv: Rerunning.
[16:48] <bdmurray> slangasek: Could you review that update-manager upload since its mine?
[17:00] <slangasek> bdmurray: yes
[17:09] <slangasek> bdmurray: your bug ref is marked as a duplicate of another bug, do you want to swap them in LP?
[17:10] <slangasek> hmm probably not swap, probably un-dupe?
[17:13] <bdmurray> slangasek: yeah, I forgot I'd referenced that bug.
[17:18] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok, accepted. the test case should also verify that if you didn't have a libwayland-egl1-mesa before, hwe-support-status doesn't try to pull it in?
[17:20] <bdmurray> slangasek: yeah, that'd make sense
[17:23] <Mirv> ok the webp transition is now complete and ffmpeg works too, which were according to Laney the blockers for migration. could US timezone see to fixing any remaining issues, or at least identifying them?
[17:24] <Mirv> or if some extra migration hints for example would be needed. I remember that in the past some manual hinting of "try all of these together" was eventually needed.
[17:39] <Mirv> ok one thing at least: please ignore kopete tests for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-runtime - it's part of the webp transition
[17:40] <Mirv> I mean, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#kde-runtime
[17:40] <Mirv> maybe kdevelop too but I restarted the ppc64el
[17:42] <Mirv> slangasek: ^
[17:48] <Mirv> after those, please stare at the update_output.txt
[17:48] <Mirv> good night
[17:54] <bdmurray> slangasek: there is also an update-notifier SRU for Trusty that could use a review
[17:55] <slangasek> Mirv: so I'm not seeing how the webp (which I assume is libwebp) transition is complete, or how kopete should be ignored because it's part of it given that there is no kopete package in yakkety-proposed
[18:00] <slangasek> bdmurray: I'm confused by the test case - why wouldn't "log in" be sufficient to get you the updated motd?
[18:00] <slangasek> and what is 4) "observe a message"  - observe it where?
[18:02] <bdmurray> slangasek: on the terminal you ran the update in, there is a cat of the stamp file which contains the message
[18:02] <slangasek> ah
[18:02] <slangasek> fwiw I think you should be able to do just step 5) without 3) or 4)
[18:03] <slangasek> anyway, accepted
[18:04] <bdmurray> slangasek: what would call the hwe-eol script? just the process of logging in?
[18:11] <Mirv> slangasek: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/auto-libwebp.html this had four items earlier. so kopete tests under kde-runtime: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#kde-runtime (kde-runtime itself is no-change rebuild)
[18:11] <slangasek> bdmurray: yes, pam_motd triggers the call to update-motd
[18:12] <slangasek> Mirv: so you're asking to bypass the kopete failure as a least-bad option for unblocking the transition, not because the kopete test is a false-positive caused by the transition?
[18:12] <Mirv> slangasek: and we're talking about the transition of ~everything (Qt, KDE, webp, ...) which we've been trying to get done for two weeks now, and it's all interlinked with each other
[18:12] <Mirv> slangasek: I'm asking because generally yofel has asked to ignore all failing Kubuntu tests at the moment since they don't have manpower to debug them. it seems like a recompilation error they'd need to investigate latest when they want to upgrade it.
[18:13] <Mirv> slangasek: it's not likely that is enough to unblock the transitions, there have been tens of earlier fix uploads and all kde tests ignored that were failing
[18:14] <Mirv> but at least it might get a better update_output.txt again
[18:14] <slangasek> ugh. ok.
[18:16] <slangasek> kopete overridden
[18:16] <Mirv> any help in getting the transition done and touch landings for all teams less painful would be appreciated, but we'll continue tomorrow again
[18:54] <tedg> So the libwebp transition page says that it's good, but it is still in proposed.
[18:54] <tedg> Is there something that needs to be done there?
[18:54] <tedg> Or, more importantly, is there a way that I should know something needs to be done there?
[19:03] <slangasek> tedg: the transition page tells you that all the binaries have been rebuilt for the new library name in -proposed; for knowing why they're still in -proposed instead of in devel requires parsing http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html, which Mirv already did some analysis of.  Currently the known blocker is kde-runtime needing to get past some failing
[19:03] <slangasek> tests
[19:04] <slangasek> (audiocd-kio test got a bit wedged on ppc64el, I've retriggered it now)
[19:09] <tedg> slangasek: Ah, so the deps under a package on excuses are not recursive, just the package itself. Then you have to click on those to see if all their deps are building.
[19:10] <slangasek> there's no recursion there, yes.  Not sure what you mean wrt "building" though
[19:10] <tedg> I mean passing, not building. Sorry.
[20:10] <kirkland> slangasek: remind me...where did we end up on the request to restore the symlink from /etc/motd to the motd?
[20:26] <yofel> slangasek: if you see any kde packages versioned 15.12.3 broken by the migration, please just accept those getting broken. We'll update all applications to 16.04.3 once the current transition patch is done
[20:27] <yofel> and fix any remaining issues at that point
[20:27] <yofel> *transition batch
[20:31] <slangasek> kirkland: I think we didn't reach a conclusion because we had a set of mutually incompatible requirements, and the only way to resolve this was by getting a consensus together with Debian?
[20:31] <slangasek> yofel: ack
[20:31] <kirkland> slangasek: ah, okay
[20:31] <kirkland> slangasek: where's the best place to document such a discussion?
[20:35] <slangasek> kirkland: a page on wiki.debian.org to document a design, and then a discussion on<EMAIL_ADDRESS>might be the path forward
[20:35] <kirkland> slangasek: what could possibly go wrong?  :-P
[20:36] <kirkland> slangasek: okay, I can do that, and will if that's the right approach.  pardon me if it feels heavy handed for, literally creating a symlink, as a distro package :-)
[20:37] <slangasek> kirkland: I mean a design for the whole shebang, not just for the symlink :)
[20:38] <kirkland> slangasek: ah -- that includes update-motd, or is that already sufficiently designed?
[20:38] <slangasek> including update-motd
[20:38] <kirkland> slangasek: ah, you mean pam_motd
[20:38] <slangasek> which is designed, but not documented for Debian's purposes
[20:38] <kirkland> slangasek: defining what pam_motd *should* do
[20:38] <slangasek> so Debian people keep changing things on the edges and fraying
[20:38] <kirkland> slangasek: got it
[20:39] <kirkland> slangasek: okay, let me document my thoughts in a google doc, first
[20:39] <kirkland> slangasek: then we can move to debian wiki
[20:39] <kirkland> slangasek: reminder, I've got no privs (and probably negative karma) in the Debian community
[20:40] <xnox> kirkland, like everyone in debian community =) in general =)
[20:40] <kirkland> xnox: LoL :-)
[21:08] <xnox> slangasek, valgrind-mpi needs to be placed into universe somehow please =)
[21:08] <xnox> (similar to boost-mpi bits, source in main, most things in main, that package into universe)
[21:11] <slangasek> xnox: done
[21:12] <xnox> tah
[21:21] <ginggs> hi! any archive-admins around to remove some binaries blocking migration please? LP: #1606469 and LP: #1612180
[21:28] <bdmurray> infinity: Review pending SRUs I notice wily is still active in LP
[21:55] <ginggs> thanks slangasek
[22:03] <ginggs> slangasek: could we also look at removing all packages that build with free pascal on powerpc? LP: #1562480
[22:06] <slangasek> hmm, I thought someone was working on fixing that
[22:12] <ginggs> slangasek: i chatted to infinity briefly about it at debconf; my understanding is that even if the problem did get fixed, fpc would need to be re-bootstrapped and all the packages rebuilt on powerpc anyway - at the moment none of the packages are usable on powerpc
[22:12] <slangasek> ah
[22:19] <cjwatson> bdmurray: Some builders are still on wily (RT#92640), so we need to retain the capability to build updates for them.
[22:24] <bdmurray> cjwatson: ah, okay


[01:41] <BugeyeD> _marx_: if i'm in town (questionable at this point), i'll suck down some java sure
[01:41] <BugeyeD> MarkB1: wow, biggers ... haven't seen that name in awhile. :)
[01:42] <BugeyeD> MarkB1: i work in winston at 5-points (stratford/1st/miller/country club). i'm a sysadmin among other things, and use python daily.
[01:42] <_marx_> you don't do any python eh BugeyeD
[01:42] <BugeyeD> MarkB1: doesn't make me good at python necessarily, and i certainly don't consider myself a developer. i just write my own tools.
[01:43] <BugeyeD> _marx_: love python. just saw in the scrollback someone mentioning folks not complaining about python if they'd come from another language.
[01:44] <BugeyeD> _marx_: i was a perl captive for years. i now *hate* dealing with perl. python has me somewhat spoiled.
[01:44] <BugeyeD> of course there's nothing necessarily wrong with perl - but python does seem to fit me better.
[01:45] <BugeyeD> _marx_: i'm wearing a morningdew shirt today. didn't get a chance to walk into a starbucks. :)
[01:46] <_marx_> ah that would have been cool :)
[01:46] <_marx_> hell were it to krankies; i think there's a rift there
[01:47] <BugeyeD> i visit krankies sometimes, but mostly just the airstream and the owner of that is an old friend. i do downtown when you call mostly. :)
[01:48] <_marx_> the airstream on reynolda?
[01:48] <BugeyeD> MarkB1: were you one of the friends-of-zope awhile back? if so, you still doing that? and is that why you asked about python devs?
[01:48] <BugeyeD> _marx_: yup. tommy priest runs that thing. at least i think he does. he seems to be in charge, and i think he does the facebook page too.
[01:49] <_marx_> oh i guess that is easy to get to from where you work
[01:49] <_marx_> i hit the dt one when working in old salem or at gateway
[01:50] <BugeyeD> MarkB1: i tried getting into plone, and loved it but skinning it for customers was rediculously intricate (5 books later, i know that it takes something like 5 languages to do a good job of it - or at least it used to).
[01:50] <BugeyeD> MarkB1: despite my hatred/distrust for php, i've been using concrete5 cms for customers and have been happy so far.
[01:52] <BugeyeD> _marx_: yeah, it's like a 2 minute drive including stoplights. i still get the same thing - a double macchiato sweetened a bit. good stuff. not at all what starbucks sells.
[02:06]  * BugeyeD is settling down with a little vino now, and will contemplate a krankies' macchiato tomorrow morning ... caffeine and python. num num num.


[05:56] <yiannis94> hello! i'm trying to install lubuntu from usb but whenever i hit next to the "connect to network step" it just hangs there for hours! could someone help me?
[09:16] <leszek> hi
[17:15] <pepee> so, how do I tell lxde not to suspend the machine when closing the lid in my laptop?


[08:18] <ubuntucloud702> how can i reinstall the image from the store
[08:20] <ubuntucloud702> how can i reinstall the image from the store
[14:12] <smoser> flaccid, awake?
[15:06] <Dori922> im getting a "Read from Socket failed: Connection reset by peer // Connection closed by 172.19.1.x" when i try to SSH into my UEC node.. my router doesnt have a firewall though so i dont know whats wrong
[16:12] <TeTeT> Dori922: did you open the port via euca-authorize?
[16:13] <Dori922> yeah and my router doesnt even support firewalls which was odd :/ so im reinstalling the sustem..just to see if that fixes the problem
[16:13] <Dori922> TeTeT: :P
[21:29] <flaccid> smoser: am now
[21:29] <smoser> you get what you needed ?
[21:31] <flaccid> oh yes thanks, i was going to reply to your mail today :)
[21:32] <flaccid> much appreciated. now its just about finding more time hehe
[21:32] <smoser> the thig that is needed for debian i think largely are sysv init scripts
[21:40] <flaccid> yeah and can do like Depends: sysvinit | upstart
[21:44] <smoser> yeah.. one thing.. you should plan on using a snapshot i think for any development
[21:44] <smoser> ie, start working towards 0.6.2
[21:45] <flaccid> oh i've made the build so it pulls in the src with bzr
[21:46] <flaccid> also wonder if you can browse the source in bzr lp on the web like you would on github or similar ?
[21:46] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk
[21:48] <flaccid> ah i missed the browse the code link, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/files thanks!
[21:49] <flaccid> trying to remember, did cloud-init do the generate new ssh host key? currently we only do this with the rightlink agent when it attaches to rs
[22:32] <SpamapS> erichammond: hey, isn't traffic from a VPC -> nat instance -> real IP of ubuntu mirror going to incurr bandwidth charges? (re bug 824947)


[00:01] <OmarEl-Mohandes>  Hey , I am new here .. Is there any packages for beginner that I can start with ?
[07:54] <jarl> Hi. Is anyone here?
[07:55] <jarl> I have a question regarding use of Launchpad...
[07:56] <jarl> Some time ago, it was possible to nominate bugs for specific releases... Now this is no longer possible, or at least I don't know how to do this...
[07:56] <jarl> Can anyone tell me how to nominate a bug for a release?
[14:11] <AbhiJit> vish, u wnt diasopora invttn?
[14:34] <Bipul`> Guys i am unable to open my Network folder when i try to click it ,says "Unable to mount location Failed to retrieve share list from server"
[14:34] <Bipul`> is it a bug or something ?
[14:52] <vish> AbhiJit: if you have plenty of invites, sure.. i was thinking about checking it out at some point.
[14:52]  * vish bbiab
[14:52] <AbhiJit> not plenty
[14:52] <AbhiJit> only 3 remains
[16:03] <Bipul`> i am am newbi
[16:04] <Bipul`> hellow people i am new here
[16:06] <rork> welcome Bipul`
[16:06] <Bipul`> if i contribute my work to ubuntu ? will it boost to my career ? i am just a student of Information technology
[16:06] <Bipul`> Can any one tell me the importance of it
[16:07] <AbhiJit> Bipul`, you mean workingin bug squad team?
[16:07] <Bipul`> yes AbhiJit
[16:08] <gobbe> Bipul`: it depends what you would like to do on your career, some companies like opensource-contributions, some companeis are not interested at all :)
[16:09] <Bipul`> may i know which companies are not interested? except Mircosoft corp.
[16:09] <gobbe> there's no such list
[16:09] <kklimonda> MS is actually pretty interested in OS
[16:09] <gobbe> Bipul`: well anyway it won't hurt your career
[16:10] <Bipul`> aha cool
[16:29] <Bipul`> actully i was trying to report to ubuntu about bugs and there was a option for Other problem when i click on the other problem i got this message"You need to specify a package or a PID. See --help for more
[16:36] <Bipul`> ?
[16:40] <yofel> yeah, that has been reported by others too
[16:41] <yofel> Bipul`: see bug 654928 as an example
[16:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 654928 in apport (Ubuntu) "application does not allow to report bugs concerning ubuntu in general (asks for PID if you try to report "other problems") (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 51)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/654928
[16:42] <Bipul`> but how shud i report this one
[16:42] <Bipul`> i have been pasted my problem to every channels of ubuntu
[16:42] <Bipul`> so that i know what is happening
[16:43] <yofel> Bipul`: which one?
[16:43] <Bipul`> this one
[16:43] <yofel> the ubuntu-bug one? that's already reported as you see
[16:44] <Bipul`> and also i can't able to install ubuntu 10.04 on my guest machine
[16:44] <Bipul`> how could i report this
[16:45] <yofel> where does it fail?
[16:45] <Bipul`> on installation
[16:46] <yofel> Bipul`: do you remember the error you got? (was there one?)
[16:47] <Bipul`> nops
[16:47] <charlie-tca> what is the virtual system in use?
[16:47] <Bipul`> wait let me report it 1st
[16:47] <charlie-tca> Is the VMware, VBox, ??
[16:53] <Bipul`> yes it's VMware :p
[16:53] <Bipul`> Sory VirtualBox OSE
[16:54] <charlie-tca> and the error you get when trying to install?
[16:55] <charlie-tca> If you remember what is was...
[16:56] <charlie-tca> I would suggest reporting it from the live cd, using ubuntu-bug ubiquity if you don't the actual error
[17:02] <daker> Bipul`, bug 695137 ?
[17:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 695137 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashes under Lucid 10.04 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/695137
[17:03] <Bipul`> daker, sory ?
[17:03] <Bipul`> i dont get you
[17:04] <yofel> Bipul`: is that the bug that you're seeing?
[17:04] <Bipul`> nops
[17:04] <Bipul`> not this one
[17:04] <daker> Bipul`, ok
[17:05] <Bipul`> Can not mount /dev/loop0 (/cdrom/casper/filesystem.squashfs) on //filesystem.squashfs
[17:05] <Bipul`> this one
[17:05] <Bipul`> i am getting
[20:09] <wagle> 10.10 is causing my notebook's fan to run all the time, unlike 10.04..  anyone else have this?
[20:14] <kklimonda> wagle: if you are using unity it may put more strain on your notebook, making it run hotter
[20:15] <elopio> wagle, take a look at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Debugging/HighTemperatures
[20:16] <wagle> kklimonda: no process with "unity" in it
[20:17] <wagle> .. the notebook is actually warm to the touch
[20:17] <wagle> but i see nothing chewing cpu or pound disk
[20:17] <wagle> looking into that temperature url
[20:18] <nigelb> charlie-tca: hey
[20:18] <nigelb> charlie-tca: you up for participating in user days this time around?
[20:18] <charlie-tca> huh?
[20:18] <charlie-tca> nigelb: I don't know anything about how to do that
[20:18] <nigelb> charlie-tca: Ubuntu User Days :)
[20:18] <nigelb> charlie-tca: just takl about stuff a normal user would find good to know :D
[20:19] <charlie-tca> When and what do you want to me to try to do?
[20:19] <gobbe> :)
[20:20] <nigelb> charlie-tca: 29th Jan
[20:20] <nigelb> charlie-tca: that weekend
[20:20] <nigelb> charlie-tca: you can take your time and come up with a topic
[20:21] <nigelb> charlie-tca: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/CourseSuggestions https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/lucid https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/Logs/January2010
[20:21] <nigelb> charlie-tca: those links will help pick a topic :)
[20:21] <charlie-tca> Alright. If you really want me to, I can try to do something
[20:21] <nigelb> \o/
[20:22] <nigelb> charlie-tca: just talk to me or pleia2 in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage when you decide on a topic :)
[20:23] <charlie-tca> Great! I don't see much I know anything about, though ;-)
[20:25] <wagle> hmm..  i have a radeon video card..
[21:44] <njin> hello, is migration-assistant by-passed today ?
[23:35] <^arky^> Is there wiki for wifi debugging and bug reporting ?
[23:38] <greg-g> ^arky^: depending on the issue: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingNetworkManager and http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Documentation/Reporting_bugs (which is linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LinuxWireless )
[23:38] <bdmurray> micahg: do you know anything about python-gtkmozembed?
[23:38] <^arky^> greg-g, thx
[23:39] <micahg> I looked at it briefly last year and promised BlackZ I'd look at the failure later this week
[23:39] <greg-g> ^arky^: no problem
[23:39] <bdmurray> micahg: failure?
[23:39] <micahg> pytrainer (probably due to python-gtkmozembed)
[23:40] <bdmurray> wow it's like ESP
[23:40] <micahg> it was your bug :)
[23:40] <bdmurray> but who looks at pytrainer? ;-)
[23:40] <micahg> blackZ apparently ;)
[23:41] <bdmurray> heh
[23:41] <micahg> it'll probably be tomorrow night
[23:42] <bdmurray> I was looking at a different pytrainer bug with a patch and realized I couldn't do much testing...
[23:43] <bdmurray> this week would be great, thanks! let me know what you find out.
[23:44] <micahg> bdmurray: ok, np


[02:02]  * NCommander is convienced he has no life
[10:09] <NCommander> ok, this makes sense
[16:09] <tedg> mpt: Are you running Intrepid?
[16:10] <mpt> tedg, not right now, why?
[16:10] <mpt> (Intrepid ignores my trackpad at the moment)
[16:10] <tedg> mpt: I was curious if you'd had a chance to look at the fusa applet.
[16:11] <mpt> How long has it been in?
[16:11] <tedg> mpt: I just fixed my trackpad on Intrepid... PITA... I still don't have it perfect.
[16:11] <tedg> 3 days.
[16:11] <tedg> I have on quick question though, what to do when there is no IM client.
[16:11] <mpt> I have the Aug 26 daily live
[16:12] <mpt> then don't show the status items
[16:12] <tedg> Right now I default to "Offline"
[16:12] <tedg> Don't show them at all, or make them insensitive?
[16:12] <mpt> don't show them at all
[16:12] <tedg> Doesn't that equate to "disappearing" functionality?
[16:12] <tedg> Menus that appear and disappear and users not knowing why?
[16:13] <mpt> but they don't appear and disappear
[16:13] <mpt> (What did I say?:-)
[16:14] <mpt> tedg, having something insensitive usually implies that there's something you can do to make it sensitive
[16:14] <tedg> mpt: Sorry, apparently unplugging my tablet causes X to crash...
[16:14] <tedg> I probably missed your last couple messages.
[16:14] <mpt> I don't think it's reasonable to have insensitive items dependent on software that isn't even installed
[16:14] <mpt> (You didn't miss anything)
[16:15] <tedg> Well, in theory it'd be installed.  Just not running.
[16:15] <tedg> Pidgin is in the default install.
[16:15] <mpt> Oh, sorry, by "no IM client" I thought you meant "no IM client installed"
[16:15] <mpt> If installed but not running, then sure, "Offline"
[16:15] <tedg> No, no IM client running.
[16:16] <mpt> and setting any other status should launch it.
[16:16] <mpt> (And set that status once it's launched.)
[16:16] <tedg> Hmm, that may be tricky.  We don't really know which IM client the user is using.
[16:17] <mpt> Presumably the same one that you treat as Canonical if Pidgin and Empathy are both open and set to different statuses. :-)
[16:17] <tedg> There's no "Preferred Application" for IM.
[16:17] <mpt> er, "canonical" with a small c
[16:17] <tedg> I actually, in that case, report the "most available".
[16:18] <mpt> durnit
[16:18] <tedg> I'm thinking that we should hide the icon on the bar, and make the menu items insensitive.
[16:19] <tedg> That way if folks only run IRC in a terminal window, they get the panel space back.
[16:19] <tedg> And if they want the menu space, they can set the GConf setting.
[16:19] <mpt> So, default to Pidgin (since that's the one in the default install), falling back to Empathy if Pidgin's not there and Empathy is, and report a bug asking for IM client to go in Preferred Applications.
[16:21] <crevette> tedg, you're the one that did the FUSA thingy with IM integration
[16:21] <crevette> ?
[16:21] <mpt> crevette, yes, that's what we're discussing
[16:21] <tedg> Hmm, I'm thinking that the only way we could start Pidgin is to hard code the path to it's desktop file... kinda messy.
[16:21] <asac> you could also look which profile was last used (if both are installed, but not running)
[16:21] <tedg> crevette: yes.
[16:22] <tedg> asac: Profile?
[16:22] <crevette> tedg, good job, just one thing, could you use more tangoish icons, as pidgin use for status ?
[16:22] <asac> config folder
[16:22] <asac> in home directory ... (if they have)
[16:23] <tedg> crevette: Yeah, I threw in GTK+ stock icons for FF to get the features in.  I'm discussing the icons with the art team, though I'll probably steal some for the short term to make it prettier.
[16:23] <crevette> okay
[16:24] <kwwii> tedg: can you send me a list of the icons it uses? Maybe I'll find some time to make them
[16:24] <kwwii> tedg: I'm not promising anything but having the information can't hurt :-)
[16:24] <tedg> asac: They seem to have folders, but atleast with Empathy, it doesn't seem to be touching them.  I could look at their log files maybe.
[16:24] <tedg> kwwii: Okay, will do.
[16:25] <tedg> mpt: I guess my question comes down to, should "offline" and "no client" be different states?
[16:25] <asac> tedg: usually history files are regularly touched
[16:26] <mpt> tedg, logging is off in Pidgin by default, but when seb128 got back I was going to ask him if he could turn it on by default, because upstream are interested in knowing whether anyone will scream if that happens
[16:26] <mpt> (they're skittish about turning it on by default for everyone)
[16:27] <andreasn> crevette: the presence icons are already set in the naming-spec, so maybe we can just put the pidgin icons into gnome-icon-theme and refer to those names
[16:27] <tedg> Hmm, so there might not be any files they touch regularly :)
[16:27] <kwwii> asac: I have a couple of teams working on themes...to do anything really nifty they also have to include a chrome file for FF, so my question is how should I install that?
[16:27] <tedg> andreasn: Really, I couldn't find anyone who'd implemented them.. what are their names?
[16:27] <kwwii> andreasn: so they are in the spec but the icons do not exist right?
[16:27] <mpt> tedg, certainly "no client" should be a different state, because in that case you have very little idea whether someone is offline or not. They might (for example) be online in Skype and not care about anything else.
[16:27] <asac> kwwii: what kind of chrome file is that?
[16:28] <andreasn> kwwii: yes, exactlu
[16:28] <andreasn> exactly I mean :)
[16:28] <kwwii> andreasn: sounds like a good place for me to start making gnome icons :p
[16:28] <andreasn> the names are user-away, user-idle, user-offline and user-online
[16:28] <tedg> andreasn: Well someone should be yelling at Empathy of not using them now that they're a GNOME App.
[16:29] <andreasn> tedg: yeah, and someone should yell at me for not including them in gnome-icon-theme :/
[16:29]  * andreasn sneaks away....
[16:29] <tedg> ANDREASN!!!  Oh, darnit, he got away.   ;)
[16:30] <tedg> mpt: Okay, so in the "no client" state -- panel icon is "Offline" or "else" or hidden?
[16:31] <kwwii> asac: it changes the text color of the menus (since FF doesn't seem to do that right from the gtk theme) as well as the status bar text color
[16:31] <kwwii> asac: so it is something we don't want to set at installation as these will not be the default themes
[16:31] <mpt> tedg, just show the person's name I think
[16:31] <mpt> since it's just an account switcher + quit-mode-chooser at this point
[16:32] <asac> kwwii: ok. would it be appropriate to make a complete skin extension out of that?
[16:32] <asac> maybe with more contributions?
[16:32] <tedg> mpt: Okay.
[16:32] <Zdra> andreasn, tedg: I'm all for using icon naming spec for status icons... but dobey can't understand provided names are wrong
[16:33] <crevette> andreasn, hey
[16:33] <tedg> mpt: I've built GConf keys to disable all the features we've added.  So the people who don't want us to ever change anything can return it to before.  Should I throw those in the prefs dialog, or just leave them as things people can edit in gconf-editor?
[16:33] <kwwii> asac: yes, what does that involve? how does that work?
[16:33] <crevette> andreasn, presence icons is in naming-spec ?? cool, so we can has theme
[16:33] <crevette> :)
[16:33] <mpt> tedg, there's a prefs dialog??
[16:34] <Zdra> andreasn, tedg, crevette: we need icons corresponding to those statuses: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec.html#type-Connection_Presence_Type
[16:34] <andreasn> crevette: sure, under standard status: http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html
[16:34] <tedg> mpt: Yeah, for whether you want your name or "Users" or a couple other things.  Pretty sparse.
[16:35] <andreasn> Zdra: ah, and pretty much all of thoee are used by regular apps like pidgin and empathy, right?
[16:35] <mpt> tedg, how is it accessed?
[16:36] <Zdra> andreasn: the problems with the icon spec are: 1) user-idle is the same as user-away. 2) user-busy does not exists. 3) user-hidden does not exists
[16:36] <tedg> mpt: Right click on the FUSA applet.  Should work on Hardy also.
[16:36] <mpt> tedg, that's not forward-compatible
[16:36] <crevette> Zdra, yeah I was looking for 3) too
[16:37] <tedg> I'd have to say, I've never understood hidden.
[16:37] <tedg> It seems like a "I trust everyone else's client not to lie" mode.
[16:38] <Zdra> tedg: when you set your presence to hidden to server tells all users you are offline
[16:38] <tedg> mpt: What do you mean, we can keep those keys to disable the features forever -- even if makes less and less sense.
[16:38] <asac> kwwii: basically its getting the chrome files in a .xpi ... and then let it package by our extension team
[16:38] <mpt> tedg, I mean, right-clicking on a panel applet isn't :-)
[16:38] <andreasn> Zdra: I would personally don't get the distinction between user-idle and user-away, but I certainly agree that the naming-spec and telepathy should use the same stuff, because them being incompatible is like, weird
[16:38] <mpt> tedg, but sure, put them in there if you like, I don't really care about that
[16:38] <tedg> Zdra: I don't that ICQ implemented it that way, perhaps Jabber is better :)  (/me is old school :) )
[16:39] <kwwii> asac: so doing it that way would allow one to choose it (or we could set it on install of theme itself)
[16:39] <kwwii> ?
[16:39] <andreasn> Zdra: anyway, I better run now, I'll bring it up with some other artists and see if I _might_ be able to get dobey to change his mind (but don't count on it :/ )
[16:39] <tedg> mpt: Okay, I was just curious if you had thoughts.  My initial thought was yes, but then I was thinking that we might not want to make it easy for people to avoid our new features :)
[16:40] <mpt> The better designed something is, the fewer options it needs
[16:41] <asac> kwwii: i think switching the default globally would be trickier. in any case, the user would be able to choose/switch back
[16:41] <Zdra> andreasn: right, telepathy is fd.o like the icon naming spec. So I think they both should provide the same set of status types. If you can change the spec I'll use those names for empathy icons for sure ;)
[16:41] <asac> kwwii: however, on first restart the addons manager pops up and highlights the new theme
[16:41] <mpt> tedg, it would be much easier to not show them now and introduce them later, than to introduce them now and remove them later
[16:41] <tedg> mpt: We just need one flag in the user's account "I hate change" and they can flip that, all in one place :)
[16:41] <asac> kwwii: so its not like the user doesnt have a chance to know how to select it
[16:43] <mpt> tedg, it concerns me (and this is a general problem) that early adopters may end up with a nasty-looking clumsy-to-use OS because we never brought them up to date with the new hotness.
[16:43] <kwwii> asac: excellent, that sounds like what we want to do
[16:43] <kwwii> asac: I'll probably be in touch about this soon
[16:44] <asac> kwwii: welcome.
[16:44] <tedg> mpt, yeah, we kinda need a "Revert to distro defaults" button that would reset things like the panel and such.  So that people could run that every few updates.
[16:44] <tedg> mpt: That way they won't loose their app settings, but could get different things on the panel for instance.
[16:44] <mpt> tedg, right, soon we'll need to start designing not just features, but also sensitive upgrades to those new features.
[16:46] <vuntz> tedg: I'd never use a "revert to distro defaults" for the panel -- I'd lose my panel changes...
[16:46] <Zdra> andreasn: I think it's important to note the way telepathy works: we have a string describing each possible status, depending on the protocol you could have "gone-eating", "phone-call", etc... For each presence string that can be anything, the backend gives the presence's category. So "gone-eating" and "phone-call" are both in the "busy" category. Categories are protocol-independent so we need one icon for each. Of course more icons can be ad
[16:46] <Zdra> ded later for special presence of particular protocols but it's not required since we can use the generic icon of the presence type.
[16:46] <tedg> Perhaps that's a place of an external utility.  We could have a GConf key for "Ubuntu UI Version" and then when that gets incremented it could pop up and say "The Ubuntu UI has been upgraded, would you like to update your settings?"
[16:46] <tedg> vuntz: Yes, but I'll put you the class of "Experienced Panel User" ;)
[16:47] <vuntz> tedg: okay, so your issue is mainly that the way the panel config is described is inherently broken when it comes to default settings
[16:47] <vuntz> I would fix this first :-)
[16:47] <vuntz> (not saying I will do it soon)
[16:48] <tedg> vuntz: Yes, that's one problem, but the other is that people might have removed something like the fast-user switch applet because they didn't want fast user switching.  Now we've added IM support and they may want it back.  How do they know?
[16:49] <vuntz> by reading the "what's new" page about the new release?
[16:49] <vuntz> they don't want it back if they don't know about it ;-)
[16:49] <tedg> I was also talking about this with kwwii about new themes.  Let's say we add a new theme to the ubuntu-themes package, how do they know they have a new theme to choose?
[16:50] <tedg> vuntz: I'm from America, no one reads here ;)
[16:50] <tedg> vuntz: We have Fox News to read things for us.
[16:50] <vuntz> interesting to think about all this, though
[16:52] <tedg> What I had talked about with kwwii was perhaps we have the package touch a file somewhere in var, and then a little listener can know the date of the file last time, it looked and notice an updated touch of that file.  It'd be simple, but probably work.
[16:52] <tedg> For the theme case, I'm not sure it'd work for the large "UI Change" issue.
[17:31] <kwwii> asac: can you point me to the original theme files (I assume in the firefox package, which I luckily have on my machine)
[17:34] <asac> kwwii: most is native, but there are themes files in xulrunner-1.9*/chrome/classic.jar and same for firefox-3.0*/chrome/classic.jar
[17:35] <kwwii> asac: excellent, I'll check it out, thanks
[17:41] <tedg> kwwii: Oh, BTW, this bzr branch "lp:~ted-gould/inkscape/devbuild" should install a separate binary and desktop file and use your icon.  I haven't had a chance to package it or anything like that.  But it does work.
[17:41] <tedg> kwwii: Thanks for the icon!
[20:32] <RainCT> Hi
[20:33] <RainCT> Can someone have a look at bug #262723?


 how to move every window apps opened on the hdmi monitor to edp one?
[02:16] <chieta> xrandr?
 @ctisme [how to move every window apps opened on the hdmi monitor to edp one?], If you are in extended monitor setup. You will just have to drag them to this monitor.
[21:02] <Lizardman> Ah I've got everything running great in my fresh Lubuntu install, but the PulseAudio Mixer icon in the system tray has become blank - known issue?  Anyone have experience with the bug and potentially some suggestions?
[21:08] <wxl> `pulseaudio -k` do anything for you?
[21:09] <Lizardman> I shall try
[21:10] <Lizardman> Regretfully no, good sir wxl
[21:10] <wxl> what version of lubuntu?
[21:11] <Lizardman> Should be latest, always forgot how to check that as opposed to kernel version
[21:11] <wxl> `lsb_release`
 @The_LoudSpeaker [If you are in extended monitor setup. You will just have to drag them to this mo …], how to do that automatically... let's say i have many apps open... when using the extended monitor... i want to all apps opened on edp one rather on hdmi wan
[21:11] <Lizardman> "No LSB modules are available."
[21:12] <wxl> ugh that whole thing. so stupid. try `lsb_release -d`
[21:12] <The_LoudSpeaker> ctisme: set the edp one as the primary monitor
[21:12] <Lizardman> Ubuntu 19.04
[21:13] <wxl> ok well 19.10 just came out. you might want to try an upgrade as you'll want to do one anyways.
[21:13] <Lizardman> For Lubuntu, what's the official upgrade procedure?
[21:14] <diogenes_> !upgrade
[21:14] <The_LoudSpeaker> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[21:14] <The_LoudSpeaker> ^ Lizardman:
 @The_LoudSpeaker [<The_LoudSpeaker> ctisme: set the edp one as the primary monitor], i won't
[21:16] <wxl> it may be that some application is using your hardware and so pulse is just ignoring that. you can do `lsof /dev/snd/* | tail -n +2 | grep -v pulse` to figure out if anything is there
[21:16] <wxl> ^ Lizardman
[21:17] <Lizardman> wxl: I will check that, I am doing a dist upgrade at the moment, which will kick me offline here (Linux box is router using iptables)
[21:17] <The_LoudSpeaker> Then sorry mate. Can't help! 🤷🏻♂
[21:17] <The_LoudSpeaker> ^ @ctisme
[21:17] <wxl> worst case scenario, you can try deleting (or moving) the config files and then restarting
 @The_LoudSpeaker [<The_LoudSpeaker> Then sorry mate. Can't help! 🤷🏻♂], no worries, nice tries
[21:19] <wxl> btw ~/.config/pulse
[21:21] <wxl> `pactl list` might be instructive if there are still issues
[21:21] <Lizardman> wxl: Thank you wxl, you've been much helpful - just waiting for the packages to be upgraded and hopefully a sane restart (might need to re-install the NVIDIA drivers, I use the ones from their site)
[21:22] <Lizardman> It's just that dang icon in the system tray being blank, it tasks me!  It tasks me!  Everything else is working so well, best I've seen LXQt
[21:22] <wxl> 19.10 is better so XD
[21:24] <Lizardman> I cannot ignore the advice of a good ser
[21:24] <chieta> still on 19.04 with openbox here
[21:25] <wxl> 19.10 still has openbox
[21:25] <Lizardman> My first Linux distro was Mandrake, all the way back, let's see, 21 years ago roughly
[21:25] <wxl> oh jeez i don't even remember mandrake XD but i began on slackware
[21:25] <chieta> 21 years with linux then?
[21:26] <chieta> i forgot the logos of mandrake
[21:26] <chieta> knoppix i rememberred
[21:26] <wxl> i remember having to hack a device driver for something... it was a laptop and there wasn't much in the way of resources for linux on laptops back then
[21:26] <chieta> my first impression is suse
[21:27] <chieta> sound driver is a mess
[21:31] <Lizardman> Yeah, I was the coolest hatchling in class, I setup a remote access terminal and used a bunch of ncurses-based programs to chat on ICQ, IRC, etc
[21:31] <Lizardman> And I'm back on with 19.10
[21:31] <Lizardman> And Pulse has an icon!
[21:31] <wxl> horray
[21:31] <wxl> most likely that is circumstantial
[21:31] <wxl> so don't get the idea that pulse sucks in 19.04 or anything. but you've got newer software and that's a Good Thing™
[21:32] <Lizardman> And I almost lost my Vulkan code due to where I put it!  Woops!
[21:33] <Lizardman> Gotta reinstall the NVIDIA driver
[21:36] <Lizardman> wxl: What's the default window manager for logging in? wddm?  Wasn't lightdm, trying to find the process
[21:37] <wxl> Lizardman: one key lower— sddm
[21:37] <wxl> and fwiw "login manager" would be the words you are looking for
[21:37] <Lizardman> wxl: Hm, killing it only brought it back
[21:37] <wxl> they all end in "dm" for "display manager" but especially in the age of wayland, that's super confusing
[21:38] <wxl> yeah it autospawns (just like pulseaudio, actually). what are you trying to accomplish?
[21:38] <Lizardman> Install NVIDIA's driver
[21:39] <wxl> wouldn't that involve kernel modules, so you're just reloading them basically?
[21:39] <wxl> see `modprobe`
[21:40] <Lizardman> Back again
[21:40] <wxl> if you're trying to essentially restart x, killing the display/login manager is what actually does it
[21:40] <Lizardman> I need to stop sddm from loading so Nouveu doesn't load so I can load NVIDIA's kernel driver
[21:41] <Lizardman> Basically a fresh boot with no X
[21:41] <wxl> oh just blacklist nouveau and kill sddm
[21:41] <wxl> !blacklist
[21:42] <Lizardman> NVIDIA's installer already made a blacklist file in that location
[21:43] <wxl> so if nouveau is there, it shouldn't load
[21:43] <Lizardman> ...and yet lsmod shows it
[21:43] <wxl> did you completely reboot?
[21:44] <Lizardman> Yes'ser
[21:44] <wxl> what's `lsmod | grep nouveau`?
[21:45] <Lizardman> https://pastebin.com/FeBxGUV2
[21:46] <Lizardman> https://pastebin.com/zkBBSZjS - NVIDIA's file
[21:46] <wxl> so everything except the first line shows modules that are loaded that are using nouveau.. they might be the issue
[21:47] <Lizardman> nano /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-installer-disable-nouveau.conf - Good path
[21:48] <Lizardman> Those modules look rather generic-y for Xorg-y
[21:49] <wxl> i know.. just observing
[21:49]  * Lizardman hands wxl some binoculars
[21:53] <Lizardman> Probably stopping sddm from loading will fix this
[21:56] <wxl> anything except comments in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules?
[21:57] <wxl> is nouveau mentioned anywhere in /etc/modules-load.d/*?
[21:57] <wxl> is the nvidia driver (for some weird reason? i don't know) blacklisted in /etc/modprobe.d/*?
[21:58] <Lizardman> Check for that, it wasn't
[21:59] <wxl> also look for either in /etc/X11/xorg.conf (you shouldn't have one) or /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf/*
[22:00] <wxl> oh there's some fun ideas here https://askubuntu.com/questions/110341/how-to-blacklist-kernel-modules
[22:01] <wxl> i like the last one, which is rename all the driver files X'''''''''D
[22:01] <wxl> the `install module /bin/false` directive is new
[22:02] <wxl> passing the blacklist to the kernel right in GRUB is a nice touch
[22:07] <Lizardman> wxl: Ugh, got the driver installed, X starts for a second, see the cursor, it drops
[22:07] <Lizardman> Gonna get the Xorg log
[22:08] <Lizardman> What, the
[22:09] <Lizardman> Now it's sddm that seems to be preventing it from running
[22:09] <wxl> ?
[22:09] <Lizardman> [   146.842] (EE) Failed to open authorization file "/var/run/sddm/{e0243e52-2eca-494a-87f7-7b2c23eba320}": No such file or directory
[22:10] <Lizardman> I also see BOTH Nouveau AND NVIDIA references in the log
[22:10] <Lizardman> https://pastebin.com/ye9DDPdj
[22:10] <wxl> yeesh
[22:10] <wxl> can i make a crazy suggestion?
[22:11] <Lizardman> Yes'ser
[22:11] <Lizardman> Reinstall?
 what happens in a live session?
[22:11] <wxl> no.. roll back your driver
[22:12] <Lizardman> Hm, need to check the command line options on the NVIDIA installer for that
[22:12] <wxl> i'm not sure it will allow you that option
[22:12] <wxl> you might have to literally go pick an older version and install it
[22:13] <wxl> i know this is gentoo but kind of interesting https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1097502.html
[22:13] <wxl>  * rolling back drivers helps
[22:13] <wxl>  * the file exists though it says it doesn't
[22:13] <wxl>  * for some, wiggling the mouse/typing keys and it works like normal (so might be a red herring)
[22:17] <Lizardman> wxl: All working
[22:18] <Lizardman> wxl: Next thing, a menu editor, since I don't seem to have a built-in one
[22:21] <wxl> Lizardman: what are you talking about? you said earlier you had nano XD
[22:22] <Lizardman> wxl: I love nano!  I use it all the time!  But both LXQt have a GUI for editing the menu?
[22:22] <wxl> oh you want a GUI boooooo
[22:22] <Lizardman> (I have to sell this distro to some people at the company)
[22:22] <Lizardman> (well, make them like it)
[22:23] <wxl> surprisingly, the LXQt project has been relatively unfriendly about the idea of a desktop entry editor, let alone a menu editor
[22:23] <kc2bez> nano has some gui-like features XD
[22:23] <wxl> oooooooh but i think i may have found a really good solution
[22:23] <wxl> let me go test this out
[22:23] <wxl> meanwhile i'll show you the two i know of
[22:23] <wxl> !info alacarte
[22:23] <wxl> !info menulibre
[22:23]  * wxl kicks the bot
[22:24] <wxl> wth? we default to bionic here? ugh
[22:24] <wxl> !info alacarte eoan
[22:24] <wxl> !info menulibre eoan
[22:24] <wxl> there, still there :)
[22:24] <wxl> and apparently getting smaller in the case of alacarte. not sure if that's a good sign or not XD
[22:26] <wxl> ok the idea's good but not great
[22:27] <wxl> you can edit the Desktop Entries by using pcmanfm-qt and going to Applications, then right click, open with, your editor, etc.
[22:27] <wxl> however you wouldn't necessarily know all the categories
[22:40] <wxl> or if you don't mind flatpak and ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww gtk3 https://github.com/donadigo/appeditor
[23:08] <kc2bez> fwiw I vote menulibre. it doesn't pull in too much and it just works.
[23:08] <wxl> yeah except when it doesn't
[23:08] <wxl> when you try to get fancy (more than just moving categories) it's problematic