[02:10] <doodlestroke> dood
[02:10] <doodlestroke> dood
[07:15] <nick__> Hi i am trying to log into a server with remmina am logged in with terminal but can't with remmina
[07:34] <nick__> got in with remmina but i land up at terminal i want to get into terminal which has windows
[10:29] <pawel09> hey everyone! just a quick "thank you" for the product! i love ubuntu mate!
[10:30] <pawel09> i hope the developmetn will continue and support for GTK3, 4... whatever it may be will be available :
[10:30] <pawel09> :)
[11:11] <hetii> 82
[11:11] <hetii> hi :)
[11:58] <gebruiker> anyone know how to enable panel shadows when using compiz?
[12:07] <Akuli> if you can't think of anything else you could make a wallpaper that shadows like that
[12:08] <Akuli> i found this https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1550264
[12:14] <gebruiker> I tried the delay suggestion from the github issue tracker suggestion and the arch wiki. it is a bug from 2014 still not fixed in 2017
[12:14] <gebruiker> shocking
[12:14] <gebruiker> going to try xfce
[12:20] <popo> hi
[12:21] <popo> hi have this errore ubuntu mate 16.10
[12:21] <popo>  vdpauinfo
[12:21] <popo> display: :0   screen: 0
[12:21] <popo> Failed to open VDPAU backend libvdpau_i965.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Error creating VDPAU device: 1
[12:21] <popo> thank for help
[22:50] <Guest51101> name  is  softvar


[00:06] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Linux Mint 20 Beta is Now Available to Download @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=180712 (by Joey Sneddon)
[02:29] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Linux Mint 20 Blocks Snap App Installs, So Here’s the Workaround @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=181765 (by Joey Sneddon)
[03:57] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Linux Mint 20 Beta Download Links Are Now Live @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-mint-20-beta-download-links-are-now-live-530240.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)
[04:20] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: elementary OS Now Coming Pre-Installed on Several Laptops @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/elementary-os-now-coming-pre-installed-on-several-laptops-530241.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)
[06:52] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Ouch: Linux Monster Laptop Powered by AMD, Not Intel @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/ouch-linux-monster-laptop-powered-by-amd-not-intel-530244.shtml (by Bogdan Popa, Microsoft News Editor)
[07:05] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Security:: Episode 78 @ https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/episode-78/
[11:29] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Productivity is but a snap away – useful applications for your everyday needs @ https://ubuntu.com/blog/productivity-is-but-a-snap-away-useful-applications-for-your-everyday-needs


[18:01] <FernandoMiguel> $ google-chrome
[18:01] <FernandoMiguel> /usr/bin/google-chrome: error while loading shared libraries: libcups.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[18:01] <FernandoMiguel> HALP
[18:04] <micahg> library is in the same place it was in precise
[18:05] <FernandoMiguel> I know.... cups has been acting up
[18:05] <FernandoMiguel> I just reinstalled it
[18:05] <FernandoMiguel> and now , chrome won't start
[18:07] <FernandoMiguel> open("/opt/google/chrome/libcups.so.2", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[18:07] <FernandoMiguel> missing a sym link
[18:11] <micahg> FernandoMiguel: sounds broken :)
[18:11] <FernandoMiguel> a lot
[18:11] <FernandoMiguel> I only have 32 bits, not 64
[18:12] <micahg> shouldn't matter
[18:12]  * micahg would suggest filing a bug at crbug.com
[18:12] <FernandoMiguel> it's not a chrome bug
[18:13] <FernandoMiguel> it's something with cups
[18:13] <FernandoMiguel> or with my setup
[18:13] <FernandoMiguel>  google-chrome
[18:13] <FernandoMiguel> /usr/bin/google-chrome: error while loading shared libraries: libcups.so.2: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32
[18:13] <FernandoMiguel> if I use the 32 bits version, I get this
[18:15] <FernandoMiguel> I guess ill do a clean install
[18:15] <FernandoMiguel> I was hoping I could get this quantal to release :|
[18:20] <micahg> htm
[18:20] <micahg> hrm
[18:20] <micahg> so you're running 32 bit chrome on 64 bit quantal?
[18:20] <FernandoMiguel> no
[18:20] <FernandoMiguel> 64bits
[18:20] <FernandoMiguel> google-chrome-unstable:
[18:20] <FernandoMiguel>   Installed: 21.0.1163.0-r140240
[18:20] <FernandoMiguel>         500 http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable/main amd64 Packages
[18:21] <micahg> no, if you use 32 bit, you need libcups2:i386
[18:22] <micahg> so if google isn't DTRT, you should file a bug
[18:22] <FernandoMiguel> I have both libcups2:i386 and libcups2
[18:22] <micahg> then it's a google bug
[18:22] <FernandoMiguel> I dought I can reproduce this on another system
[18:23] <FernandoMiguel> I'm pretty sure my system got borked along the way in quantal updates
[18:23] <FernandoMiguel> cups has been failing to upgrade for over a month
[18:23] <FernandoMiguel> chrome only broke after I reinstalled cups
[18:23] <FernandoMiguel> but ill test tomorrow at the office. I have another quantal laptop running fine
[18:24] <FernandoMiguel> let me see if I can symlink the proper libcups
[18:24] <FernandoMiguel> $ mlocate libcups.so.2
[18:24] <FernandoMiguel> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libcups.so.2
[18:24] <FernandoMiguel> that doesn't help!
[18:25] <micahg> that's the 32 bit version
[18:25] <FernandoMiguel> yep
[18:25] <micahg> idk
[18:26] <FernandoMiguel> I might be missing some multiarch lib besides this
[18:26] <micahg> what does ldd /usr/bin/google-chrome show?
[18:26] <micahg> pastebin please
[18:27] <FernandoMiguel> 	not a dynamic executable
[18:27] <FernandoMiguel> fernando@Bostro:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu$ ll /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcups.so
[18:27] <FernandoMiguel> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Mai 23 14:19 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcups.so -> libcups.so.2
[18:27] <FernandoMiguel> is broken.... fuuuuu
[18:28] <FernandoMiguel> so now I need /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcups.so too
[18:28] <FernandoMiguel> I don't get it :(
[18:28] <micahg> sounds like a google bug
[18:29] <FernandoMiguel> if I can reproduce it tomorrow, ill file it as such.... right now, I don't have enough data to support that :\
[18:33] <FernandoMiguel> I wish it was easier to revert a package like cups :(
[18:36] <micahg> unfortunately, I still can't build any chromium releases 19 or higher
[18:36] <micahg> hoping to have time to look at it this week
[18:40] <FernandoMiguel> sudo ionice -c3 zsync -i /boot/quantal-desktop-amd64.iso -o ~/quantal-desktop-amd64.iso http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/quantal-desktop-amd64.iso
[18:40] <FernandoMiguel> reinstall time


[00:53] <UBuxuBU> has anyone seen jackyalcine
[04:58] <topher5000> hello
[05:30] <david> please i need help
[08:48] <oo> Hey. Is there anyway to unlock the desktop? When moving a file to a specific area on the desktop it always moves back..
[22:11] <oo> Hey what's the easiest way to set up screen locking on lubuntu?
[22:22] <szczur> oo, open the ~/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml and add this lines in keybinds section.
[22:22] <szczur> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/590973/
[22:22] <szczur> for example put these before <keybind key="A-Tab"> line
[22:24] <szczur> this will make Ctrl+Alt+L work as screenlocker
[22:24] <bioterror> i would use super-l ;)
[22:26] <szczur> then change C-A-l to W-l
[22:27] <bioterror> :)
[22:49] <oo> thanks szczur, works a charm :D
[23:00] <szczur> :)
[23:21] <oo> I'm trying to mount a cd but i'm just getting location is unmountable, any suggestions?
[23:27] <semitones> oo, why are you doing it manually?
[23:28] <oo> I insert the cd, it tries to load up and comes up with Location is unmountable
[23:30] <semitones> weird -- take a look here, this guy seems to have the same problem
[23:30] <semitones> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=9&sqi=2&ved=0CGcQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Faskubuntu.com%2Fquestions%2F21618%2Funable-to-mount-audio-disc-location-is-unmountable-error&ei=6jqeTd_ZAuOX0QH4rpXYBA&usg=AFQjCNED1T9oq4doTT8epZ-N-Dgwz41KyQ
[23:31] <oo> Yeah i cam accross that, no help really as no-one answered
[23:32] <oo> I can give you the output of mount if you like
[23:32] <oo> Also, my home folder is encrypted with ecryptfs
[23:36] <semitones> alright -- i think you could probaby ask in #ubuntu too -- more people will have a chance to see it there too.
[23:36] <semitones> Nothing is really coming to mind for me, unfortunately
[23:39] <oo> Ok cheers, i'll ask :)


[00:09] <Ankhwatcher> anyone use MythExport? I want to export hidef under a bit more compression
[00:10] <Ankhwatcher> I'm wondering if there is any way to change the settings, or add different codecs
[02:35] <Shadow__X> tgm4883: the fix is in and mythvidexport works again
[02:35] <Shadow__X> thanks again
[10:23] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: I think I've screwed up mythExport, how can I get debug info?
[15:56] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: http://www.mythbuntu.org/wiki/MythExport
[15:56] <Zinn> [www.mythbuntu.org] MythExport | Mythbuntu
[15:56] <rhpot1991> search for debug
[16:50] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: is there lenght limit to what can be transcoded?
[16:52] <Ankhwatcher> I'm trying to transcode 215 minutes of HD footage
[17:04] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: what would cause this? http://pastebin.com/EKu8uCMf
[17:04] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] MythExport Problems - Pastebin.com
[17:28] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: what version of mythbuntu/ubuntu and what version of mythexport?
[17:30] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: I gotta run I'll check back in a few, if you are on 11.10 try these updated configs: http://www.baablogic.net/mythexport/
[17:30] <Zinn> [www.baablogic.net] MythExport
[19:29] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: I had installed those, but it just occurred to me that I forgot to give them permissions so myth could use them
[19:54] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: all good then?
[20:11] <mishehu> hmm I suppose I should update my box sometime...  anyway, I've got something that really annoys me...  I've got my mythtbuntu box which is a bit older (still identifies as Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS), that when I watch a video on my tv via hdmi, it randomly gives black screens for 1-2 seconds each and then resumes rendering
[20:11] <mishehu> I can't discern a pattern to it, so I'm not sure if it's HDMI encryption handshaking issues or what
[20:12] <mishehu> it's using the radeon driver, not fglrx
[20:47] <mishehu> I guess many people are here in the USA and thus out with families and friends.  heh.
[20:49] <Steve-Goodey> mishehu: I'm no expert but I think the first question they would ask is anything in the logs?
[21:31] <oletechie11> hi, newbie here. What is the best way to run mythtv on win7 and access my BE?
[21:55] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: not so far I seem to have something stuck in my queue
[21:56] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: is there a way to force it?
[21:56] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: delete the job, or restart the daemon
[21:57] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: what version of ubuntu/mythbuntu?
[21:57] <Ankhwatcher> what's the command for version?
[21:58] <rhpot1991> lsb_release -a
[21:58] <Ankhwatcher> I'm on kubuntu 12.10 I think, I'll check
[21:59] <Ankhwatcher> http://pastebin.com/mE2PAi4p
[21:59] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] version - Pastebin.com
[22:00] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: the commands in 12.04 should work just fine
[22:00] <rhpot1991> in 12.04 you shouldn't be using ffmpeg anymore, its replaced by avconv I think the command is
[22:01] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: also this bug might bite you https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythexport/+bug/982241
[22:01] <Zinn> [bugs.launchpad.net] Bug #982241 “mythexport daemon cannot start - no permission to w...” : Bugs : “mythexport” package : Ubuntu
[22:02] <tgm4883> Ankhwatcher, out of curiosity, what is the output of 'cat /var/log/installer/media-info'
[22:03] <Ankhwatcher> tgm4883: Kubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Release amd64 (20110427.1)
[22:04] <tgm4883> ok
[22:04] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: no, it seems to write to the log okay most of the time
[22:05] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: I suspect that bug only hits new releases
[22:06] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: does it interrupt the recording of the log to look at it?
[22:06] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: ok so if you replaced your configs with the ones from my site, you will want to purge mythexport  and reinstall
[22:06] <rhpot1991> the ones in the package there will use avconv which is what you want in 12.04
[22:06] <Ankhwatcher> Can't use an undefined value as a symbol reference at /usr/bin/mythexport-daemon line 178.
[22:07] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: what configs are you working with now?
[22:07] <Ankhwatcher> the new ones from your site
[22:07] <Ankhwatcher> so sudo apt-get purge mythexport?
[22:08] <rhpot1991> I think it might be --purge there
[22:08] <rhpot1991> sudo dpkg --purge mythexport
[22:08] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: I'm the idiot with the misnamed mythdatabase, will it ask me for the name and login?
[22:08] <rhpot1991> should do it
[22:08] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: I fixed that bug so it should work now
[22:08] <rhpot1991> I think
[22:09] <Ankhwatcher> this is a good thing, right: dpkg: warning: while removing mythexport, directory '/usr/share/mythexport/configs' not empty so not removed.
[22:09] <rhpot1991> go nuke that by hand now
[22:09] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: thanks
[22:10] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: but that's where the new configs are, don't we want to keep those?
[22:10] <rhpot1991> you want the ones in the package
[22:10] <rhpot1991> not the ones from my site
[22:10] <Ankhwatcher> oh okay
[22:10] <rhpot1991> those are for pre 12.04
[22:10] <rhpot1991> I'm updating my site to say that now
[22:11] <Ankhwatcher> rm -rfv /usr/share/mythexport/configs
[22:11] <rhpot1991> might need to sudo that
[22:11] <Ankhwatcher> will do
[22:11] <Ankhwatcher> done
[22:11] <Ankhwatcher> reinstall?
[22:12] <rhpot1991> ya now sudo apt-get install mythexport
[22:12] <rhpot1991> then you will need to set everything up as normal
[22:12] <rhpot1991> try a test job, and see what happens
[22:12] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: and make sure that log bug doesn;t bite you this time now
[22:13] <rhpot1991> I still need to push a fix for that
[22:16] <Shadow__X> tgm4883: thanks for the build. Its mostly working now but am having some unicode issues and issues with the internal metadata
[22:17] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: i've given it a job to do, but I don't see mythtranscode or mythexport-daemon in top
[22:17] <Ankhwatcher> mythbackend is towards the top of the list
[22:19] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: check that log bug
[22:19] <rhpot1991> it will kill the daemon
[22:19] <rhpot1991> so the job will never get picked up then
[22:19] <rhpot1991> you should see avconv pop up and eat cpu when it processes
[22:22] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: I can see it complaining that the mpeg config is gone in the log
[22:22] <Ankhwatcher> I think that's because it tried to do some previously scheduled jobs
[22:23] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: delete those from the web interface
[22:23] <rhpot1991> Ankhwatcher: I gotta run, I'll check back later
[22:24] <Ankhwatcher> rhpot1991: okay, thanks for your help
[22:25] <Ankhwatcher> it's working
[22:25] <Ankhwatcher> I restarted it and it's working
[22:27] <Ankhwatcher> now I will feed it the Gran Prix and leave it overnight
[22:57] <swerve> ok, I got this far, but now I'm stuck. can anyone tell me how to proceed? http://pastebin.com/MZj49p6h
[22:57] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] Setting up mythtv-database (0.25-dmo3) ... Failed to connect to database: Acces - Pastebin.com


[15:03] <slashd> o/
[15:03] <ddstreet> o/
[15:04] <rbasak> o/
[15:04]  * ddstreet coffee before start
[15:06] <slashd> I'll give another 5-10 minutes for other DMB to join. Otherwise, I will call it a day for today.
[15:06] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco is around
[15:06] <rafaeldtinoco> im here leaving at 12:30
[15:06] <rafaeldtinoco> o/
[15:06] <rafaeldtinoco> (in 20 min from now)
[15:08] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco i think you mentioned you would chair today right?
[15:09] <ddstreet> or not anymore?
[15:09] <rafaeldtinoco> I did ?
[15:09] <ddstreet> in -dmb channel
[15:09] <rafaeldtinoco> i dont recall
[15:10] <ddstreet> as teward couldn't make it today
[15:10] <rafaeldtinoco> sorry, I have a doc appt soon
[15:10] <rafaeldtinoco> yep, i might have forgotten
[15:10] <rafaeldtinoco> can u take it ?
[15:10] <ddstreet> np, i'm up next on the list
[15:10] <ddstreet> yep
[15:10] <rafaeldtinoco> thanks dan!
[15:10] <ddstreet> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[15:10] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 24 15:10:34 2020 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:10] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:10] <ddstreet> should be a short mtg today i think
[15:11] <ddstreet> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
[15:11] <rafaeldtinoco> carry over again pls
[15:11] <rafaeldtinoco> almost freeze date, no free time lately
[15:11] <ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
[15:11] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
[15:11] <ddstreet> #subtopic slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal
[15:14] <ddstreet> checking the pkgset, looks like it's not done, i'll carry over
[15:14] <ddstreet> #action slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal (carried over)
[15:14] <meetingology> ACTION: slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal (carried over)
[15:14] <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset
[15:14] <ddstreet> not done yet, carrying over again
[15:14] <ddstreet> #action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:14] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:14] <ddstreet> #subtopic rbasak to take care of the canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation
[15:15] <rafaeldtinoco> give him a min
[15:15] <rafaeldtinoco> he is talking in a meeting
[15:15] <rbasak> Done, though I need to reply to the ML I think to confirm
[15:15] <rbasak> So please carry over for me to write it up
[15:16] <ddstreet> #action rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:16] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:16] <ddstreet> that appears to be all that's on the agenda
[15:16] <ddstreet> #topic aob
[15:16] <ddstreet> anything else?
[15:16] <rafaeldtinoco> not from me
[15:17] <ddstreet> unless i missed anything from the ML
[15:17] <rafaeldtinoco> I did the ubuntustudio changes
[15:17] <rafaeldtinoco> so yep, looks like we are done
[15:18] <ddstreet> awesome, so last item
[15:18] <ddstreet> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
[15:18] <ddstreet> i'll move myself to the back, leaving teward and rafaeldtinoco at the top for next mtg
[15:18] <rafaeldtinoco> sounds good
[15:18] <ddstreet> i think we're done!
[15:18] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[15:18] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 15:18:58 2020 UTC.
[15:18] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-24-15.10.moin.txt
[15:19] <ddstreet> thanks all o/
[15:19] <rafaeldtinoco> thanks ddstreet o/


[12:09] <RobinShepheard> greetings all
[12:09] <Amaranth> nm
[01:19] <LaserJock> hi RobinShepheard
[01:21] <HedgeMage> hi, all
[01:23] <LaserJock> hi HedgeMage
[02:11] <bddebian> Hi HedgeMage
[02:19] <LaserJock> ogra: CD diet, lol
[02:21] <ogra> :)
[02:23] <HedgeMage> :)
[02:53] <opitwin> How do the games work in Edubuntu?
[02:54] <opitwin> Do they work good?
[02:54] <opitwin> Are they good for kids?
[02:54] <bddebian> Yes
[02:54] <opitwin> bddebian: Do they have good graphical layout?
[02:56] <ogra> opitwin, just grab a liveCD and test it out ;)
[02:57] <mhz> ogra: hi
[02:57] <opitwin> ogra: I'll do that
[02:57] <mhz> ogra: the setting of keyboards did work, so did the 'sesion' manager. Thx.
[02:58] <mhz> ogra: however, I have noticed this issue twice:
[02:58] <mhz> Clients do turn the server off :(
[03:00] <bddebian> Heya ogra
[03:00] <ogra> mhz, yes, thats an xfce bug they didnt address for dapper
[03:00] <ogra> hi bddebian
[03:01] <mhz> ogra: hmmm, they were in gnome :(
[03:01] <mhz> oh, you mean, it overrides defaults?
[03:07] <bddebian> ogra: Do you have a second for a /query?
[05:36] <LaserJock> ogra: those LTSP specs are looking nice!
[07:08] <cbx33> wiki wiki wah, good mornin all
[07:09] <LaserJock> cbx33!
[07:10] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[07:10] <cbx33> you're still awake?
[07:10] <LaserJock> for a sec
[07:10] <cbx33> heheh
[07:10] <cbx33> sorry about last night
[07:10] <LaserJock> it's really only 10:10 here
[07:10] <LaserJock> but the wife says it's time fore bed
[07:11] <LaserJock> I"m actually looking at gisomount
[07:11] <cbx33> well that's what happened yesterday
[07:11] <cbx33> :p
[07:11] <cbx33> oooooh
[07:11] <cbx33> looking good?
[07:11] <LaserJock> and reading pygtk tutorial
[07:11] <cbx33> oh wow
[07:11] <cbx33> excellent
[07:12] <LaserJock> well, I don't know any gtk so it's greek to me ;-)
[07:12] <cbx33> i managed to package it up, so that it installs properly ;p
[07:12] <cbx33> pygtk is EASY trust me
[07:13] <cbx33> ther reference section of the docs
[07:13] <cbx33> is particularly helpful
[07:13] <cbx33> the most rouble Ive had so far was with the treeview widget in the info window
[07:15] <LaserJock> <-bed time
[07:16] <LaserJock> sorry, I'll talk to you in the morning
[07:17] <cbx33> well, when the missus says jump
[07:17] <cbx33> you gotta jump
[09:22] <crimsun_> (yep, crickets)
[09:26] <HedgeMage> heh
[09:30] <spacey> thunderbird?
[09:33] <HedgeMage> (on my gentoo box)
[09:33] <HedgeMage> my edubuntu lappy is in need of medical attention
[09:37] <spacey> thunderbird is in the top of my most hated apps (that i use)
[09:37] <HedgeMage> lol
[09:37] <HedgeMage> it has a few features I'm addicted to
[09:44] <HedgeMage> I really need to start distributing these compiles over the network again
[09:45] <crimsun_> good ole ccache+distcc
[09:46] <HedgeMage> :D
[09:47] <HedgeMage> just a few more packages and I'm done... yay!
[09:53] <cbx33> mornin all !
[09:53] <HedgeMage> hey, cbx33
[09:54] <cbx33> hey HedgeMage
[09:54] <HedgeMage> cbx33: may I /msg you?
[09:54] <cbx33> sure
[10:26] <cbx33> mornin pygi
[10:26] <pygi> hey cbx33
[10:27] <cbx33> howz it going
[10:27] <cbx33> when did you say the scp meet was?
[10:29] <pygi> cbx33, next week, not yet sure when
[10:29] <pygi> when would you like it to be be?
[10:30] <cbx33> are you good for 20:00 UTC ish?
[10:30] <pygi> that's good, what day?
[10:30] <cbx33> hmmm dunno
[10:30] <pygi> We have cookbook stuff tuesday
[10:31] <cbx33> right yes
[10:31] <cbx33> what time?
[10:31] <pygi> 20:00 UTC :P
[10:31] <cbx33> cool
[10:31] <cbx33> i shuld be ok for those next week
[10:31] <pygi> hm, what about monday 20:00 UTC?
[10:32] <cbx33> hmm....should be ok
[10:32] <pygi> oki :)
[10:33] <cbx33> we'll see if ogra is av ailable for that to
[10:34] <pygi> indeed
[10:47] <spacey> cookbook stuff today?
[10:47] <spacey> uh
[10:47] <spacey> tuesday
[10:48] <HedgeMage> yep, tuesday
[10:48] <spacey> pygi: you should announce that on list or something
[10:48] <pygi> hey HedgeMage
[10:48] <spacey> its quite hard to stay involved without reading it on irc accidently
[10:49] <HedgeMage> hi pygi
[10:49] <pygi> hey HedgeMage
[10:50] <RobinShepheard> hello all
[10:50] <HedgeMage> hi RobinShepheard
[10:50] <pygi> spacey, I am not sure how will we go with this cookbook stuff, but sure, I'll announce
[10:50] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: Hiya
[10:50] <HedgeMage> pygi: good thing you set the cookbook meeting for Tuesday, I'm going to be useless until then... had an urgent project come up
[10:51] <pygi> HedgeMage, no worries ;)
[10:51] <RobinShepheard> Anybody mind if I join you for the cookbook meeting
[10:54] <cbx33> no sure
[10:55] <cbx33> would be great RobinShepheard
[10:56] <RobinShepheard> what channel will the meeting be on??
[10:56] <pygi> RobinShepheard, some which we'll create probably
[10:57] <RobinShepheard> ahh, will you let us know via this channel or will it be sent by email??
[10:57] <RobinShepheard> email = dev list
[10:57] <pygi> RobinShepheard, mail
[10:57] <pygi> I'll be writing it now
[10:57] <RobinShepheard> cool, good enough
[10:57] <pygi> o yes, we have ubuntu-cookbook channel registered :)
[10:58] <cbx33> cool
[10:58] <cbx33> I can't join it here
[10:58] <cbx33> but I can at home :p
[10:58] <RobinShepheard> just wanted to check as I have never work like this before, I am a bit of a newbie when ir comes to things like this
[10:58] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: it's great working like this
[10:58] <cbx33> :D
[10:58] <cbx33> what was the overall feel
[10:59] <pygi> cbx33, we must get complete chapters layout at the meeting tuesday
[10:59] <cbx33> from hte lug
[10:59] <cbx33> pygi: i agree
[10:59] <cbx33> and it's going to be bigger
[10:59] <cbx33> MUCH bigger :p
[10:59] <pygi> cbx33, indeed, considering we are to publish it :P
[10:59] <cbx33> i can see it
[11:00] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: well, most seemed to be fairly supportive in principal but no one really commited as yet as they thought we should try to tap mark shuttleworth/cononical first
[11:00] <cbx33> of course
[11:00] <jsgotangco> :/
[11:00] <cbx33> that's my next stop
[11:00] <cbx33> now that the dapper frenzy has quietened down
[11:00] <pygi> raekism, this book is great accomplishment anyway
[11:01] <pygi> ergh, RobinShepheard *
[11:01] <cbx33> I'll be finishing up the proposal
[11:01] <jsgotangco> so its all about funding then eh?
[11:01] <pygi> jsgotangco, nothing is about funding
[11:01] <cbx33> jsgotangco: mostly yeh
[11:01] <pygi> cbx33, ergh, why is that?
[11:01] <jsgotangco> HAH
[11:01] <RobinShepheard> pygi: you lost me with the ergh
[11:02] <jsgotangco> you don't need funding to publish just do it with lulu
[11:02] <cbx33> sorry we're talking at cross purposes
[11:02] <RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: no we are on about the BETT2006 show
[11:02] <jsgotangco> ahh that's different
[11:02] <cbx33> 2007 :p
[11:02] <jsgotangco> feel free to ask canonical for sponsorship =)
[11:03] <cbx33> else we need to invent a time machine first
[11:03] <cbx33> jsgotangco: that's the plan but we need a watertight proposal first
[11:03] <jsgotangco> feel free to register the time machine product in LP
[11:03] <jsgotangco> =)
[11:08] <RobinShepheard> what can I say, I am still lcaking in coffee this morning, got in the office and have been ponced upon, I shall be back in a mo, just going to get caffeine dose :)
[11:09] <HedgeMage> night night all
[11:09] <cbx33> ok
[11:13] <jsgotangco> horayy another 4AM meeting for me
[11:13] <pygi> jsgotangco, hm? :)
[11:13] <pygi> the cookbook?
[11:13] <jsgotangco> yes =_
[11:14] <pygi> ah, sorry about that :-/
[11:18] <jsgotangco> no worries, I just say to myself i live in the wrong timezone
[11:19] <jsgotangco> =)
[11:19] <cbx33> sorry jsgotangco
[11:19] <cbx33> I'm ok to reschedule
[11:20] <jsgotangco> nah don't think about me
[11:23] <pygi> eh :-/
[11:23] <pygi> cbx33, how's python? :)
[11:24] <RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: night night
[11:30] <RobinShepheard> pygi: Just got the emails with the meeting details in, cheers
[11:32] <cbx33> pygi: really good
[11:32] <cbx33> managed to get treeviews working
[11:32] <pygi> cbx33, congrats ;)
[11:32] <cbx33> broke some functions out of some classes to neaten up today :D
[11:33] <cbx33> yeh they're not too bad once you get to know them
[11:33] <cbx33> pygi: can i ask you opinion
[11:34] <cbx33> we want to make it so that when we click a button it opens the mounted folder in something like nautilius
[11:34] <cbx33> but what if the user doesn't have nautilius
[11:34] <cbx33> i know we're writing fro ubuntu but I'd like it to be portable
[11:35] <pygi> ergh, every gnome installation has nautilus? :)
[11:35] <cbx33> yeh but what about kde users
[11:36] <pygi> well, you'll have a different UI for KDE,and you could add-in functionality needed for kde in backend
[11:36] <cbx33> can kde not use gnome libs like gnome can with kde?
[11:37] <pygi> well, it can, but then it would mean you need gnome libs on KDE
[11:37] <pygi> not many people are willing to do that
[11:37] <cbx33> right ok
[11:42] <pygi> talk to you later
[11:42] <cbx33> thanks pygi
[11:42] <cbx33> i was gonna put it in the packager that would do an auto config
[01:31] <pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)
[01:41] <pygi> highvoltage, you around?
[01:42] <highvoltage> pygi: yep
[01:43] <pygi> who's gonna implement that xfce for Edubuntu?
[01:43] <ogra> pygi, *somebody* :)
[01:44] <pygi> ogra, hehe, nice ;)
[01:44] <pygi> basicly, it needs to use existing package, and overwrite configuration with our custom one, right?
[01:45] <ogra> well, first we should decide if its feasable at all, then we need to look if we want xubuntu or just plain tweaked xfce ...
[01:46] <ogra> there are a lot of variables that first need the BOF discussion at the summit
[01:46] <pygi> Why not blackbox desktop? Even more lighter then xfce ;)
[01:46] <pygi> Yup, indeed
[01:46] <highvoltage> blackbox isn't developed upstream anymore
[01:46] <ogra> usually spces are not assigned to somebody for implementation before they are written :)
[01:46] <ogra> *specs
[01:47] <pygi> highvoltage, ergh, why is that :P
[01:47] <highvoltage> fluxbox isn't very intuitive, and would need plenty of plugins and work before being user friednly to the level that Xfce and Gnome are.
[01:47] <pygi> ogra, I saw a written spec, but yes, discussion is needed :)
[01:47] <ogra> we could switch ti ion3
[01:47] <ogra> pygi, where on the wiki did you see such a spec ?
[01:49] <pygi> nowhere on wiki :)
[01:49] <ogra> you see :)
[01:49] <ogra> all we currently have are drafts and a summary on the spec tracker ...
[01:50] <pygi> hehe :)
[01:50] <ogra> the implementation details will be in the wikipage
[01:50] <pygi> 'fcorse, as always :)
[01:50] <ogra> and only if the wikipage got signed off by the reviewers we'll have a spec
[01:51] <ogra> after the summit we have a big pot full with specs that then get assigned to their implementers
[01:51] <ogra> (indeed if you propose a spec and work on it from the beginning its liekly that you also are the implementer)
[01:52] <ogra> but thats not mandatory
[03:03] <cbx33> ogra: who picks implementors?
[03:05] <ogra> last time assignment was done by mdz and JaneW for the specs that had no self appointed implementors
[03:05] <cbx33> i see
[03:05] <cbx33> and they'd pick on people they knew could do the task :p
[03:05] <cbx33> cool
[03:21] <pygi> cbx33, you wanna implement something? :)
[03:26] <cbx33> pygi: I'd love to
[03:26] <cbx33> but not sure I'm up to that level yet
[03:26] <cbx33> I'll be helping all I can on scp though
[03:26] <pygi> ofcourse :)
[03:29] <pygi> ogra is assignee on s-c-p spec :)
[03:29] <pygi> so he implements it, and we watch from side :0
[03:29] <pygi> :)
[03:29] <ogra> :P
[03:29] <ogra> surely not
[03:30] <ogra> i'll maintain the branch, review the patches and might care for the packaging ... implementation can be done by others :)
[03:31] <pygi> ergh :P
[03:31] <ogra> ergh ?
[03:31] <pygi> nothing, don't worry :)
[03:32] <ogra> just say if you think something is wrong with that
[03:32] <pygi> just joking around while resting from that Diva stuff, no worries :)
[03:32] <ogra> oki :)
[03:33] <pygi> There is a release scheduled for today I think :P
[03:33] <ogra> :)
[03:33] <cbx33> nice
[03:34] <pygi> ogra, about replacing kdeedu with gnome apps, can't we just find people willing to do some porting, or write some educational applications?
[03:35] <cbx33> hmmm
[03:35] <cbx33> I'm sure some people wil be willing to help out there
[03:35] <ogra> "some porting"
[03:35] <cbx33> I'll do what I can
[03:35] <ogra> HA HA HA
[03:35] <pygi> ogra, just you laugh :)
[03:35] <ogra> did you ever prot a kde app to gnome ?
[03:35] <ogra> *port as well
[03:35] <pygi> once, yes :)
[03:36] <pygi> Not very big one tho :)
[03:36] <ogra> i think we wont get around rewrites ...
[03:36] <cbx33> me either
[03:36] <ogra> but if there are apps with data (like a vocabulary trainer), we should reuse the data
[03:36] <cbx33> of course
[03:37] <pygi> Agreed
[03:37] <ogra> (which again implies to have kdeedu langpacks)
[03:37] <cbx33> hmm
[03:38] <cbx33> KBruch wouldn't take much rewriting
[03:41] <cbx33> hey Yagisan
[03:41] <Yagisan> G'day cbx33
[03:42] <DanielC> Does anyone know of a web page explaining the difference between "virtual size" (memory) and "resident size"? Also an description of the stack vs data parts of VM, etc. I used to know this, but I studied it several years ago.
[03:42] <cbx33> wikipedia?
[03:42] <DanielC> tried that :(
[03:43] <Yagisan> DanielC: virtual size = how much ram the app allocated, resident size = how much its actually using (very simplified)
[03:43] <Yagisan> cbx33: did you ever run reportbug deng ?
[03:44] <cbx33> I'll do it when I et home
[03:44] <cbx33> playing doom II now
[03:45] <bddebian> Howdy folks
[03:45] <Yagisan> G'day bddebian, jsgotangco
[03:45] <cbx33> hiya bddebian
[03:45] <Yagisan> cbx33: nice isn't it :)
[03:45] <cbx33> yeh
[03:46] <jsgotangco> g'day mate
[03:46] <Yagisan> had a bit of a drama tonight
[03:46] <Yagisan> my daughters hand got caught in the lift doors at the train station
[03:46] <cbx33> oh?
[03:46] <bddebian> Heya Yagisan, cbx33, jsgotangco
[03:46] <cbx33> oh no
[03:46] <cbx33> is she ok?
[03:46] <Yagisan> had to force it open
[03:47] <DanielC> Yagisan: So both VSZ and RSS cover both the stack and the application data? (e.g. if we're talking about firefox it'd include both Firefox itself and the HTML page you have in open). Right?
[03:47] <Yagisan> she got cut, and has a swollen hand, but I got there in time to prevent her fingers from being broken
[03:47] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: Has your machine stayed fix after a reboot??
[03:47] <Yagisan> DanielC: yes
[03:47] <DanielC> RobinShepheard: I haven't rebooted it, I should try that.
[03:47] <DanielC> Yagisan: thanks
[03:48] <Yagisan> DanielC: no worries
[03:48] <cbx33> phew...good going Yagisan
[03:49] <Yagisan> yeah, they are big heavy doors, and the gap is just big enough for a 2 year old to get her fingers in
[03:49] <Yagisan> she touched the door while it was moving, and it just sucked her hand straight in
[03:49] <bddebian> Ugh :-(
[03:50] <DanielC> Yagisan: She going to be alright?
[03:50] <Yagisan> I'll take her to the doctor tomorrow morning, but she seems ok.
[03:51] <Yagisan> It's amazing how strong a geek can be when they have to be
[03:52] <Yagisan> we use a variety of different video cards here ?
[03:53] <DanielC> RobinShepheard: It doesn't work after a reboot. But running modprobe again fixes it. I guess I should add modprobe to one of the init scripts. Any idea which one?
[03:54] <Yagisan> I would appreciate some assistance. I'm trying to get some opengl info from a wide variety of cards for a project.
[03:55] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: If you add the pcmcia and pcmcia-core into /etc/modules they should load by default on boot
[03:55] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I have an ATI mobility 9000
[03:55] <cbx33> Yagisan: I'd help if I knew something
[03:55] <Yagisan> If you don't mind, could you run 'glxinfo -l > opengl.txt' and email or dcc it to me
[03:55] <cbx33> what can I do
[03:56] <cbx33> Us geeks have super powers
[03:57] <DanielC> I have on-board video.
[03:57] <Yagisan> DanielC: doesn't matter. the command will identify it
[03:57] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: what email address do you want it sent to??
[03:57] <Yagisan><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:57] <cbx33> already sent
[03:58] <Yagisan> thanks guys. it will help tracking down many "graphics look strange" issues I'm working on
[03:58] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: arrival imminent
[03:59] <cbx33> sent another one too Yagisan
[04:00] <DanielC> Yagisan: I just sent the results for my desktop and my laptop.
[04:02] <cbx33> RobinShepheard: i see your post about AD authentication
[04:02] <Yagisan> excellent. thanks guys. a quick glance at some of the emails that have already arrived is very enlightening
[04:03] <cbx33> mind if I use it as backup that AD authentication would be great for edgy
[04:03] <DanielC> AD == Active Directory?  If so, I would love to have that on Edubuntu LTSP. So that the students could access their Windows files from the Linux thin clients.
[04:04] <cbx33> DanielC: I'm working on it
[04:04] <cbx33> I have it working
[04:04] <DanielC> You rock man :)
[04:04] <cbx33> but, not over graphical login
[04:05] <DanielC> ah
[04:05] <cbx33> there are some things that need ironing out
[04:05] <ogra> note that AD auth is a part of the network authentication SoC project
[04:05] <cbx33> oh is it?
[04:05] <ogra> so we'll get it anyway from ubuntu
[04:05] <cbx33> will it work with LTSP
[04:05] <cbx33> that's my problem
[04:05] <ogra> why shouldnt it ?
[04:05] <cbx33> well, actually I lie
[04:05] <cbx33> I have it working on text mode
[04:05] <cbx33> just people can't login via the gui
[04:06] <cbx33> because as they are logging in, it's setting up their home dir to be the network share
[04:06] <cbx33> so that even their linux home dir is stroed on the windows file server
[04:06] <cbx33> but it's proving to have som dificulties, and I'm not sure why
[04:06] <cbx33> but if it's an SoC project I'll wait and see what happens with that
[04:06] <cbx33> authentication is EASY
[04:06] <ogra> well, i'm not sure the network auth spec covers mounting homedirs
[04:06] <cbx33> it's home dir mapping that screws it up
[04:07] <cbx33> for some reason, gnome just doesn't like it, I've forgotten a lot of what I did, but locking of files was a problem
[04:08] <cbx33> gnome wanted to lock a file and you can't do that over smbfs/cifs
[04:08] <cbx33> but i got round that, by making the lock file get stored on the local machine
[04:08] <cbx33> but there was another issue
[04:08] <cbx33> I'll look at it on monday and see if I can let you jknow what I did
[04:09] <ogra> tell your findings to ajmich, he's working on the SoC implementation
[04:09] <cbx33> oh ok
[04:09] <ogra> i think Mithrandir is his mentor
[04:10] <cbx33> ok
[04:12] <DanielC> cbx33: Putting /home/* in the Windows server would be a problem. It's not just Gnome. Firefox and OpenOffice will lock files (I think).
[04:12] <cbx33> hmmm possibly
[04:14] <RobinShepheard> cbx33: you could possibly get round the locking, by using unix services under windows and share with nfs
[04:14] <RobinShepheard> homes shares over nfs are sound, I have used them here
[04:15] <RobinShepheard> but you must mount them with fstab
[04:15] <RobinShepheard> well , i say must it seemed to work best
[04:15] <cbx33> hmmm
[04:16] <cbx33> mqaybe I'll investigate that
[04:16] <cbx33> I'll let you guys know what I find
[04:16] <cbx33> on the whole though the authenticatino is weasy
[04:16] <cbx33> see you guys soon
[04:21] <Yagisan> sorry - had to run out. daughters hand was hurting again
[04:22] <Yagisan> damm
[04:22] <Yagisan> I was about to say, IIRC samba supports locking
[04:23] <Yagisan> oh well. he'll be back later. hopefully I'll remember to tell him
[04:24] <pygi> Yagisan, I hope your daughter is all right :)
[04:24] <RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: so what is amarula??
[04:25] <jsgotangco> this wonderful liqueur from south africa
[04:25] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I must admit I thought it did as well, but I know nfs does
[04:26] <RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: bit tasty is it??? I have never gotten around to trying it
[04:26] <jsgotangco> its has a hint of caramel
[04:26] <RobinShepheard> I seem to remeber someone mixing it with milk but not quite sure
[04:27] <RobinShepheard> *remember
[04:27] <ogra> doesnt it have enough cream already ?
[04:27] <jsgotangco> its like bailey's but not that sweet
[04:27] <RobinShepheard> sounds pretty good to me
[04:28] <Yagisan> pygi: thanks mate. she's going to sleep now, but her hand is a bit of a mess. it was her right hand, so when she tries to pick things up etc, she cries out in pain.
[04:29] <RobinShepheard> spacey: thank you, I thought I remembered someone mixing it with milk
[04:29] <pygi> Yagisan, ugh :(
[04:29] <spacey> RobinShepheard: i don't know amarula
[04:29] <spacey> what i descibed is called a "white russian".
[04:30] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: poor kid, she has my sympathy
[04:30] <spacey> watch the movie "The Big Lebowski" and you will know :)
[04:30] <RobinShepheard> sorry my mistake spacey
[04:30] <Yagisan> RobinShepheard: when I last deployed it I'm sure samba did, but since then I've become an all Ubuntu shop (well mostly - some boxes run my custom Ubuntu work)
[04:30] <RobinShepheard> not paying enough attention
[04:31] <RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I am in the process of trying to get the authentication handled by our win2k3 servers as it will be easier to persuade people it is so little work to get into the local schools
[04:32] <RobinShepheard> Most of them have windows domains for authentication already, then just gradually move bits over a part at a time untill......
[04:32] <RobinShepheard> all linux
[04:33] <Yagisan> ah, I'm smaller. I did the radical thing - wiped the lot
[04:33] <Yagisan> shoved debian on, then worked out what was missing
[04:34] <Yagisan> changed to ubuntu around hoary
[04:41] <DanielC> Should I make the swap partition the first partition or the last?
[04:44] <Yagisan> DanielC: old (pre 1999) or new pc ?
[04:44] <DanielC> new
[04:45] <ogra> put it in the middle
[04:45] <DanielC> Ok.
[04:45] <Yagisan> DanielC: doesn't matter. to much. middle = less seeks, front = faster read
[04:45] <ogra> since its likely that the head moves between the other partitions, it can write to the swap space while moving between them
[04:45] <ogra> (if you put it in the middle)
[04:46] <DanielC> This will be a RAID1 if that makes any difference.
[04:46] <ogra> swap is only a safety net anyway
[04:46] <DanielC> The disks are 80GB. I don't see the pupils using a lot of disk space. But the system shouldn't grow much either (right?). So I guess it doesn't really matter how I set it up.
[04:46] <ogra> it will make the server very slow if it starts swapping, but at least you'll have te opportunity to saver open documents
[04:47] <ogra> *save
[04:47] <Yagisan> I use swap as a backing store for tmpfs
[04:47] <DanielC> Maybe I'll do this: 10GB (/home) -> 2GB (swap) -> 72GB (/)
[04:48] <ogra> erm, why would you want 72GB for / ?
[04:48] <ogra> i'd flip that
[04:48] <DanielC> I don't know what to do with all the space.
[04:48] <ogra> 72GB (/home) -> 2GB (swap) -> 10GB (/)
[04:48] <DanielC> Ok.
[04:48] <DanielC> In that order?
[04:48] <ogra> your users will fill /home, dont worry ;)
[04:49] <ogra> i dont think that order really matters if you run RAID
[04:49] <DanielC> Some people recommend making /boot a 50MB partition, but I don't see how that can really help.
[04:49] <Yagisan> hmm. might get a microscopic speed increase if the position of / and home is swapped
[04:50] <ogra> at least it wont have noticeable effects ...
[04:50] <ogra> (probably measurable, but well)
[04:50] <DanielC> Ok, so it won't be noticeable.
[04:50] <Yagisan> DanielC: older pcs canit boot if the boot files are located past certain points on the disk
[04:50] <Yagisan> s/canit/can't
[04:51] <Yagisan> I have a separate /boot on ext2, while the rest of my system is jfs
[04:51] <DanielC> Yagisan: Ok. So the 50MB /boot partition is only for old PCs.
[04:51] <RobinShepheard> DanielC: only hting that may be adding as a partition is /var as all your logs are stored there, and in theory could fill the disk
[04:51] <DanielC> RobinShepheard: Ok. How much would you allocate for logs?
[04:51] <DanielC> With today's disks I seriously don't know what to do with the space.
[04:52] <RobinShepheard> I well I use 5Gb as it is more than enough but means it cant overflow if you get a ddos or anything like that
[04:52] <ogra> well, i'd just let logrotate do its work :)
[04:52] <Yagisan> DanielC: I'll paste my partition setup for you to look at as a guide in a pastebin
[04:52] <RobinShepheard> ogra: I always figure better safe than sorry
[04:53] <DanielC> Yagisan: thanks
[04:53] <ogra> RobinShepheard, sure ... but usually logrotate should suffice (unless you have evil users doing weird stuff that populates the logs)
[04:54] <RobinShepheard> ogra: it is a school, I remember what I was like at school
[04:54] <RobinShepheard> we changed novell addresses so we could play games and all sorts of things, I would have hated to have to check the log files
[04:55] <RobinShepheard> all the addresses where on a map, so they would see what was running on each address then rollock the person at that point on the map
[04:56] <RobinShepheard> just we weren't there, we had swapped with another workstation on the opposite side of the room
[04:56] <DanielC> Does it really matter what filesystem I pick? I plan to just go for ext3.
[04:57] <Yagisan> DanielC: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15399
[04:57] <DanielC> *click*
[04:57] <RobinShepheard> ext3 is great for recovery because of the journal, I don't really think that the speed difference is really noticeable between filesystems, but there is the thought of the number of files
[04:58] <Yagisan> DanielC: it can. what is the systems role ?
[04:58] <jsgotangco> hmmm germany vs. costa rica
[04:58] <DanielC> Edubuntu server.
[04:58] <ogra> ltsp server i guess
[04:58] <DanielC> Yes. Edubuntu LTSP seve with 15-20 thin clients.
[04:58] <ogra> ext3 isnt very fast but very reliable
[04:58] <RobinShepheard> ext systems have a finite amount of inodes, so can only hold that number of files, where as reiser and others use a btree system so are not limited
[04:59] <DanielC> I've never seen anyone run out of inodes :)
[04:59] <dan_young> ext3 is bulletproof; I'd use it unless you've got a good reason not to...
[04:59] <Yagisan> DanielC: ext3 would be a fine choice. ignore claims it's not fast - on a general purpose system ext3 is just behind jfs and xfs in average speed.
[04:59] <RobinShepheard> I use ext3 as I don't reckon I will hit the file limit, but as a server in a school i dont know, I am not sure what the max number is
[05:00] <Yagisan> reiserfs is good for lots of small files, but delete speed is dog slow
[05:00] <DanielC> Ok. Stability is important to me (not that the system is critical - I just like stability). I'll go for ext3.
[05:00] <DanielC> Thanks for the help.
[05:00] <Yagisan> jfs and xfs are roughly same speedwise, but jfs has less cpu overhead
[05:02] <Yagisan> it eat your data ogra ?
[05:02] <ogra> nope
[05:03] <ogra> but it ate whole companies i knew back when SuSE defaulted their first release on reiser
[05:03] <Yagisan> ogra: then you have missed out on the essential reiserfs experience
[05:04] <Yagisan> 3.6 is ok now. won't go to 4 though.
[05:04] <ogra> since that time i have a lot respect for hans reiser and his work on unstable filesystems he tends to call stable
[05:05] <ogra> especuially since you dont need to zero out the partition after it wiped itself ... a really handy feature if you have to reinstall everything on ext3 afterwards
[05:05] <ogra> (not that i would want to sound bitter or something :) )
[05:06] <Yagisan> after my next full www backup, I'll try an in-place conversion to ext3
[05:08] <DanielC> For a RAID-1 do the disks have to be identical? Can I have one 80GB disk and one 82GB disk and just forget about the last 2GB?
[05:09] <Yagisan> DanielC: linux raid ? no. fake raid, or real hardware raid ? yes
[05:09] <DanielC> :(
[05:10] <jsgotangco> ogra: have you gotten time to read the specs on amenity and pike (or SoC quiz project)
[05:10] <DanielC> I was thinking of the RAID option that comes with Edubuntu, so that's Linxu raid.
[05:10] <Yagisan> DanielC: linux raid is a) faster and b) more reliable then bios fakeraid
[05:11] <Yagisan> DanielC: notice something about my setup ? the disk types ?
[05:11] <DanielC> Yagisan: How similar do the disks have to be? Do they have to be identical or just the same size? (is it even possible to find two identical disks)
[05:11] <DanielC> Yagisan: I see several "Linux raid auto" entries.
[05:11] <dan_young> DanielC: for software RAID, you just need partitions of the same size; the disks don't matter...
[05:11] <Yagisan> DanielC: edubuntu raid = linux raid. the disks just need the same size partition
[05:12] <DanielC> Ok, but that's just the partition, not the disk, right?
[05:12] <Yagisan> DanielC: I have a mixture of IDE and SATA drives
[05:12] <Yagisan> DanielC: I could raid together gmailfs and usb sticks if the partitions are the same size on linux
[05:13] <DanielC> :)
[05:13] <DanielC> Thanks for the info.
[05:13] <Yagisan> hmm. gmailfs + 300 invites + linux raid. could be fun
[05:14] <ogra> jsgotangco, nope, not yet, do you have a link ?
[05:14] <jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-amenity
[05:14] <ogra> thanks
[05:14] <jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-pike
[05:15] <ogra> wow, nice mockups
[05:15] <jsgotangco> yes we worked on it last weekend
[05:18] <pygi> jsgotangco, yup, nice mockups indeed
[05:20] <ogra> pygi, do you thing tuesday 20:00 UTC is really a good time for a meeting ? its very likely that CC is at the same time
[05:20] <pygi> ogra, that will not be on #u-m anyway, but if you think we should change it...
[05:20] <ogra> well, it gets a bit busy to attend both
[05:20] <pygi> I am willing to do so :)
[05:21] <pygi> oki, monday fine for s-c-p then and saturday for cookbook?
[05:21] <pygi> ergh
[05:21] <pygi> wednesday
[05:21] <ogra> i'm fine with either ... just make sure to not clash with other meetings
[05:22] <pygi> oki
[05:23] <pygi> ogra, ergh, xubuntu  meeting is wednesday
[05:24] <ogra> the whole day ?
[05:24] <ogra> :)
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hey you're talking to super mario
[05:24] <pygi> ogra, ah :)
[05:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: ok so going back, are you the one approving this or i am expected to do so?
[05:25] <ogra> jsgotangco, approving for what ?
[05:25] <ogra> do you want to discuss it in paris ?
[05:26] <jsgotangco> well it is an Edubuntu SoC project
[05:26] <ogra> yes, but you are the mentor, feel free to decide yourself, i trus your judgement
[05:26] <ogra> *trust as well
[05:28] <LaserJock> pygi: why are all these meetings in different channels?
[05:29] <pygi> LaserJock, because it's nothing officialy and not many people will attend it
[05:29] <LaserJock> so why not do it here for everybody to see ;-)
[05:29] <pygi> last time we held cookbook meeting in #u-m and we got thousand of trolls
[05:30] <pygi> ok, you go ahead and suggest that on the list if you want :P
[05:30] <pygi> We already have registered #ubuntu-cookbook channel ages ago :)
[05:30] <jsgotangco> heh but we have the logbot here
[05:30] <LaserJock> right
[05:30] <ogra> yeps
[05:30] <LaserJock> is it really Ubuntu and not Edubuntu?
[05:31] <ogra> i agree, that we should have meetings in the official channels
[05:31] <pygi> ok, ok, go ahead and suggest that on the list Laser ;)
[05:31] <pygi> LaserJock, it is edubuntu :)
[05:31] <LaserJock> ok, that confused me
[05:31] <LaserJock> I thought you were starting an Ubuntu cookbook
[05:31] <pygi> hehe :)
[05:32] <LaserJock> I thought you were just being ambitious :-)
[05:32] <pygi> LaserJock, I'll write to the list that we can hold meeting here
[05:32] <pygi> hehe, wait, there is time for ubuntu cookbook as well :)
[05:33] <pygi> xubuntu, and kubuntu one as well, while we're at it :)
[05:43] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:44] <pygi> ogra, ofcourse, we will
[05:44] <pygi> it's now scheduled to be in #edubuntu
[05:44] <pygi> I don't know how to post to fridge just yet tho, so I'll poke someone to do it :)
[05:45] <ogra> pygi, not #edubuntu :)
[05:45] <ogra> but ext time
[05:45] <ogra> *next
[05:45] <pygi> yes, next time will be #ubuntu-meeting with fridge, and stuff :P
[05:45] <pygi> ogra, omg, why not #edubuntu now? :P
[05:46] <ogra> if i ask you about something regarding S-C-P in 8 months and you tell me "but we decided about it in this or that meeting" i want to be able to find it in the #ubuntu-meeting logs without having to dig my way through "where did we hold that meeting ?"
[05:47] <ogra> thats the purpose of #ubuntu-meeting, for the whole of all ubuntu distros ...
[05:48] <pygi> indeed, but I don't know how to register meeting for that stuff in fridge
[05:49] <ogra> you mail fridge-devel i think
[05:49] <ogra> jdub or whiprush will know
[05:49] <ogra> (they run the fridge)
[05:49] <pygi> so I am supposed to change the meetings to #ubuntu-meeting now, right?
[05:50] <pygi> ok, I'll talk with jdub
[05:50] <pygi> thanks :)
[05:50] <ogra> for the future meetings, yes
[05:50] <ogra> for now leave it as is ...
[05:51] <pygi> ok
[05:51] <pygi> sorry about that :-/
[05:51] <ogra> dont worry :)
[05:52] <pygi> :)
[05:53] <DanielC> Hmm... is the screen supposed to go black half-way through the LTSP configuration?
[05:54] <DanielC> It sure looks like the installer just crashed.
[05:54] <ogra> yes, its supposed to
[05:55] <DanielC> Why does the screen go black? It looks like it died. Especially since that step takes several minutes.
[05:55] <ogra> the xserver package does its autoconfig magic even thats not needed on thin clients because its repeated on bootup for them
[05:56] <DanielC> Ok. So I can cross my fingers and hope that it comes back up later.
[05:56] <ogra> i'll look into that, we can probably add a preseed option to the package to skip that
[05:56] <ogra> it usually comes back within a second
[05:56] <DanielC> Oh, it's been a lot more than a second. I'm talking 10min and counting.
[05:57] <DanielC> I hear the disk spinning, so it's doing something.
[05:57] <ogra> it only starts the X server and waits for it to exit again to determine the valuews for the currently connected monitor and graphics card
[06:04] <DanielC> Still not back on. It's been another 5min. I hear the disk spinning, but there's noting on the screen.
[06:04] <DanielC> It looks like it's dead.
[06:04] <DanielC> This happened yesterday too (same computer).
[06:05] <DanielC> Yesterday I ended up just doing a hard power off.
[06:05] <ogra> looks like your graphics card does something weird then ...
[06:06] <DanielC> Possible. But if this box worked with Edubuntu Breezy, why would it not work with Edubuntu Dapper?
[06:06] <DanielC> If it worked before, then it looks like a problem with Dapper.
[06:06] <DanielC> I can also boot a Dapper LiveCD into this computer.
[06:06] <ogra> do you happen to have a liveCD around to check if it happes theer as well ?
[06:08] <ogra> that was my question :)
[06:08] <DanielC> :)
[06:08] <ogra> hmm, then its very strange, since the initial xorg setup doesnt differ from the liveCD
[06:08] <DanielC> LiveCD works fine (tired yesterday).
[06:08] <ogra> and the packages are identical
[06:08] <DanielC> :(
[06:09] <ogra> the only idea i have now would be to install the workstation version, install edubuntu-server on top and run sudo ltsp-build-client manually
[06:10] <DanielC> Ok, I can try that.
[06:10] <ogra> if you do: sudo mount /cdrom before, you can use sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
[06:11] <DanielC> ok
[06:11] <ogra> instead of having it downloading half the world
[06:24] <sbartleylinux> ogra: Hey there.  Is there a way to disable the "Hybernate" button from displaying when a thin client quits?
[06:26] <bundat> hey
[06:27] <ogra> sbartleylinux, try setting /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate to false
[06:30] <sbartleylinux> ogra: thx. will do.
[06:33] <sbartleylinux> ogra: hmmm.  k.  Where do I do that?
[06:33] <ogra> in gconf.-editor
[06:33] <ogra> s/.//
[06:34] <sbartleylinux> k
[06:41] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ok.  So, that makes it so that by user, the button does not get displayed.  Is there a way to specify so that it knows that if it is a thin client, regardless of user, to not display?
[06:47] <sbartleylinux> ogra: in other words, we see that when the client exits, it does not show the shutdown or restart buttons, but is still showing hibernate.  We are trying to figure out how to make it not show hibernate on any thin client to prevent the issue of a user on a thin client hibernating the server.
[06:51] <bundat> is anyone here using edubuntu on a p3 600mhz or lower?
[06:52] <Yagisan> bundat: client or server ?
[06:52] <bundat> the live cd. ver 606.
[06:53] <bundat> i just want to know how it is, performance wise.
[06:53] <bundat> i tried ubuntu breezy and it was slow.
[06:53] <Yagisan> bundat: oh. no then. 750Mhz is the slowest server I've tried on, 233Mhz slowest client
[06:53] <bundat> p3 557mhz /128mb ram.
[06:53] <bundat> p3 667 i mean
[06:54] <Yagisan> bundat: you have a lack of ram. xubuntu may be quicker
[06:55] <bundat> how was it on the 233mhz pc?
[06:55] <bundat> how much ram do you have on that 233mhz?
[06:56] <Yagisan> bundat: 256MB. works ok. bit slow at times when launching an app. faster as a thin client, so that's what it boots to by default, but I left a disk in for when I want to run local apps
[06:59] <bundat> ok. i just finished the burning the iso. thanks yagisan. i'll see you later.
[06:59] <bundat> or maybe not.
[07:03] <Yagisan> night all
[07:06] <LaserJock> ack, cbx33
[07:07] <cbx33> hey
[07:07] <cbx33> hiya LaserJock
[07:08] <cbx33> made some more changes
[07:08] <LaserJock> of course you did ;-)
[07:10] <sbartleylinux> ogra:  Welcome back.  So, the system seems to have some gnome default config that says "if remote connection is made, do not allow shutdown or restart button".  However, it does allow hibernate button.  We want to change the default, wherever that is, to not allow any of the three that could cause the server to be brought down by a thin client click.
[07:16] <bundat> !seen yagisan
[07:16] <ubotu> yagisan<EMAIL_ADDRESS>was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 12m 45s ago, saying: 'night all'.
[07:54] <babygirl> hey there, I recently upgraded from edubuntu 5.10 to 6.06 and openoffice has disappeared, is this normal?
[07:55] <LaserJock> yikes, I don't think so
[07:56] <babygirl> it's happened on more than one machine so what could be the problem?
[07:57] <babygirl> it has been removed from the Applications->Office menu, and doesn't appear in /usr/bin/ooffice2
[07:58] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't have an edubuntu install in front of me
[07:58] <LaserJock> can you check to see if the packages are installed
[07:58] <LaserJock> in synaptic
[08:02] <babygirl> it looks like some of the packages are installed, but not all of them, though I'm not sure if I need all of them
[08:02] <LaserJock> probably not
[08:03] <LaserJock> ok, now use the menu editor in  Applications->Accessories to see what items are in the Office menu
[08:04] <babygirl> only scribus and evolution (there is a second evolution but it's not set to visible)
[08:04] <LaserJock> hmm, weird
[08:04] <LaserJock> babygirl: well, I'd probably try to just reinstall openoffic
[08:05] <babygirl> ok, thanks for your help :), guess I'll have to do that to all the machines that I upgrade :(
[08:06] <LaserJock> hmm, sorry I'm not much help
[08:06] <LaserJock> I haven't heard of that happening before
[08:06] <babygirl> np, maybe I'm doing something wrong in the upgrade
[08:07] <LaserJock> just a sec, let me check for open bugs
[08:07] <babygirl> ok, tx :)
[08:08] <LaserJock> ah, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/48124
[08:09] <LaserJock> is edubuntu-desktop installed on the machines?
[08:09] <babygirl> yes
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:11] <babygirl> er, what is edubuntu-desktop?
[08:11] <babygirl> :)
[08:11] <LaserJock> it is the meta-package that pulls everything together
[08:11] <babygirl> probably not, if I had to install it extra then
[08:11] <LaserJock> no, it should be there by default
[08:12] <LaserJock> that is how the desktop gets installed
[08:12] <babygirl> ok, I installed 5.10 from install cds, so assume it should be there then
[08:13] <babygirl> looks like I'm having the same problem as this other guy though
[08:13] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:13] <LaserJock> I just haven't upgraded from 5.10 for a long time
[08:16] <babygirl> it looks like I have edubuntu-desktop installed on the 5.10 machines I haven't upgraded yet. But it is no longer installed on the machines that I have upgraded to 6.06.
[08:16] <LaserJock> oh, now that's interesting
[08:17] <LaserJock> that would cause that kind of problem
[08:17] <LaserJock> how did  you upgrade?
[08:18] <babygirl> I upgraded a couple directly from apt-get dist-upgrade,   a couple more, I also upgraded with apt-get in cooperation with the files on the install cd
[08:18] <babygirl> both ways of upgrading have caused this problem
[08:20] <babygirl> i.e. I updated the sources.list for dapper, then did "sudo apt-cdrom add", then "sudo apt-get update", then "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
[08:20] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:20] <babygirl> the first two I tried I didn't add the cdrom, but they still have the same problems
[08:21] <LaserJock> there is an upgrade tool I believe
[08:21] <babygirl> yeah, I saw that but assumed this way would work too, maybe that is the problem?
[08:22] <LaserJock> well, dist-upgrading from release to release can have it's problems
[08:23] <babygirl> so the "Update Manager" doesn't use the standard dist-upgrading?
[08:24] <LaserJock> it tries to do it better :-)
[08:24] <LaserJock> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUpgrades
[08:24] <babygirl> ok thanks, maybe I will give it a try :)
[08:25] <LaserJock> I hope it helps
[08:25] <LaserJock> you can at least install edubuntu-desktop on the already upgraded ones to make sure everything is installed
[08:26] <babygirl> ok, thanks, I will give that a try too.
[08:27] <babygirl> I prefer using command line, so didn't bother with the Update Manager, guess I have to accept we live in a GUI world :)
[08:28] <LaserJock> hehe, I'm a terminal kind of guy myself
[08:31] <babygirl> ok, thanks LaserJock, going to head for lunch now, but will try that Update Manager, hopefully it will work :)
[08:32] <LaserJock> babygirl: ok, I hope it works too
[08:33] <babygirl> looks like that edubuntu-desktop will work on the new systems too, it is going to remove a few openoffice files, and replace them with other openoffice files
[08:34] <LaserJock> good
[08:34] <babygirl> that makes me happier :)
[10:04] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
[10:06] <Burgwork> hye pygi
[10:06] <pygi> hey Burgwork, how are you? :)
[10:06] <Burgwork> not bad
[10:06] <pygi> :)
[10:07] <Burgwork> killing time waiting for a client to contact me
[10:09] <ron_o> is the live version different from the desktop?
[10:09] <Burgwork> ron_o, not really, at the user level
[10:09] <ron_o> some of the other ubuntu's are combining both a live cd with an install.
[10:10] <ron_o> I have ubuntu already and am familiar with it.
[10:11] <ron_o> from the d/l speed of the torrent, it looks like edubuntu is pretty popular.
[10:37] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
[10:40] <sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
[10:56] <pygi> sbartleylinux, can someone else perhaps assist you? :)
[11:05] <sbartleylinux> pygi: maybe. ogra is familiar with our system and configuration.   the system seems to have some gnome default config that says "if remote connection is made, do not allow shutdown or restart button".  However, it does allow hibernate button.  We want to change the default, wherever that is, to not allow any of the three that could cause the server to be brought down by a thin client click.
[11:07] <pygi> sbartleylinux, I don't see how that is a problem if correct permissions are set?
[11:08] <sbartleylinux> pygi: does not seem to be permission oriented.  For remote connections, we want to remove the hibernate button from the logout screen the same way the shutdown and restart button were removed.
[11:08] <sbartleylinux> Does not seem to matter what user is logged in remotely, hibernate button is there but restart and shutdown are gone.
[11:09] <sbartleylinux> I can remove it on a per user basis through gnome-editor but cant figure out where to make the change a global one like appears to have been done for the restart and shutdown.
[11:09] <pygi> Also, that might be matter of modifying the package which is in charge of logout screen
[11:10] <pygi> tried gconf-editor?
[11:10] <sbartleylinux> sorry. that is what i meant when i said gnome-editor.
[11:10] <pygi> ah,oki
[11:11] <sbartleylinux> modification of the package may be the issue.  our original testing was on breezy with ltsp-server-standalone and the hibernate button did not come up.  once we moved to dapper, it seems to have started.
[11:11] <sbartleylinux> further testing shows that it is there with freenx as well as with ltsp thin clients.
[11:13] <pygi> sbartleylinux, hm, interesting
[11:14] <sbartleylinux> yep.  was hoping that someone using thin clients might have dealt with this issue before.  Seems to us that this would be a very big issue for thin clients to have the ability to hibernate the server and knock all the users off the system.
[11:15] <sbartleylinux> might be able to fix it with permissions of whatever hibernate is calling so user's get the button but dont have the ability execute the app.
[11:15] <sbartleylinux> dont know what it is calling though.
[11:16] <sbartleylinux> And, this would not, obviously, remove the button from view, just break it so the user could not break the system.
[11:16] <pygi> indeed
[11:16] <pygi> that's what I was reffering to when talking about permissions
[11:16] <sbartleylinux> our preference would be to simply not have the button appear to any remote connection.
[11:16] <pygi> indeed
[11:17] <DanielC> Edubuntu doesn't like me. The installation always fails. At one point in the installation the screen goes black and never recovers.
[11:17] <DanielC> I've tried both the server and workstation installations. It's all the same.
[11:17] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: which video card is in your system?
[11:17] <sbartleylinux> Does the black screen have 2 little white boxes on it?
[11:17] <DanielC> It's an on-board video which works fine with the LiveCD.
[11:17] <DanielC> yes it does!
[11:17] <sbartleylinux> :)
[11:17] <DanielC> Youv'e seen this before?
[11:18] <sbartleylinux> OH Yes.
[11:18] <DanielC> Is there any hope for getting Edubuntu on this box? It seems odd that this would work with the plain Ubuntu LiveCD.
[11:18] <sbartleylinux> Should be.  just a sec.
[11:19] <sbartleylinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xresprobe/+bug/43722
[11:19] <DanielC> *click*
[11:19] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: that is the bug we filed for it.
[11:19] <ron_o> can the liveCD be installed?
[11:19] <sbartleylinux> We have just today hacked a fix for it in our kickstart/install.
[11:19] <dan_young> sbartleylinux: what is the per-user gconf key for disabling hibernate?
[11:20] <DanielC> ron_o: I haven't tried. I got as far as the partitioning and I couldn't setup a RAID system.
[11:20] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: If you simply wait once the screen goes black,  at some point, the cd should eject.  Once it does, simply remove the cd and hit Enter.
[11:20] <ron_o> don't care about raid..
[11:20] <ron_o> but live wasn't meant to be installed..
[11:20] <sbartleylinux> dan_young: /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate
[11:20] <ron_o> that's what it seems like on the d/l page.
[11:21] <ron_o> The other distros are having dual live/install features.
[11:21] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: When the system reboots, it should come up fine.
[11:21] <DanielC> sbartleylinux: I did that with the workstation install, but when I restarted the computer it wouldn't boot. It said it couldn't find vmlinuz :(
[11:21] <DanielC> I forget the full file name, but it was the Linux kernel.
[11:21] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: did you hit the power button or hit enter when the cd ejected?
[11:22] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: our testing shows that if you hit the power button, it messes up grub.
[11:22] <DanielC> sbartleylinux: I must have hit Enter, but I'm willing to try again in case I didn't.
[11:22] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: hitting enter in our case works every time.
[11:22] <DanielC> Ok, I'll install again and this time I'll make sure I hit Enter.
[11:22] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: could be diff hardware and other problems on your system.
[11:23] <sbartleylinux> Give it a try though.  it may be worth it. best of luck.
[11:23] <DanielC> Question: Will this work with both the workstation and server install?
[11:23] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: seems to only be broke in the workstation.  The server install does not install the gui and so does not do the xresprobe I believe.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> could be wrong on that as I have not personally tested the server install.
[11:24] <DanielC> The screen goes black in both cases for me. With the server install it goes black during the LTSP setup.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> ah.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> sure.
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> it does the xresprobe as part of the client config on the edubuntu server build.
[11:24] <pygi> sbartleylinux, please wait, I am looking into the issue
[11:24] <sbartleylinux> pygi: np.
[11:24] <DanielC> Well, I'll do a workstation install and later upgrade it to LTSP server.
[11:25] <sbartleylinux> DanielC: is your onboard an intel chip?
[11:25] <DanielC> sbartleylinux: That would be my guess.
[11:25] <sbartleylinux> yep. same here. just wanted to verify i was pointing you in the right direction.
[11:25] <sbartleylinux> good luck.
[11:25] <DanielC> thanks
[11:28] <pygi> sbartleylinux, poke?
[11:29] <pygi> please change /apps/panel/global/upstream_session key to true with gconf-editor
[11:29] <pygi> and lemme say what you get
[11:29] <sbartleylinux> k.
[11:29] <sbartleylinux> brb
[11:30] <dan_young> sbartleylinux: my try at hibernate removal on this pastebin: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15415
[11:30] <dan_young> seems to work
[11:31] <dan_young> just use /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> dan_young: does that remove it for all users including when at console?  or just for remote connected users?
[11:33] <dan_young> sbartleylinux: all users
[11:33] <dan_young> including console
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> yes, thought sl.
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> so.
[11:33] <sbartleylinux> hm.
[11:34] <sbartleylinux> trying to figure out how it is done for restart and shutdown.  those appear at the console but not on remote connections.
[11:34] <sbartleylinux> pygi: hm.  seems to have slowed down the quit screen being displayed but still hibernate exists.
[11:34] <sbartleylinux> what is upstream_session?
[11:35] <pygi> sbartleylinux, hibernate still exists? ergh :-/
[11:35] <sbartleylinux> yep.
[11:35] <pygi> That's the logout dialog from gnome...it shouldnt have neither hibernate, nor sleep if I am not mistaken
[11:36] <sbartleylinux> pygi: wait.
[11:37] <sbartleylinux> hm.  seems again this only affected the user who ran gconf-editor.  the system menu changed to have log out and shutdown in the menu and no longer goes to the choice screen where hibernate was.
[11:37] <sbartleylinux> let me log in as that user on a remote connection and see what happens.
[11:38] <pygi> sbartleylinux, well, run it in server chroot?
[11:38] <pygi> oki
[11:38] <sbartleylinux> :)
[11:39] <pygi> what? :P
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> ok.  so, login from the remote client as the user who I made the change as has changed the logout from the default gnome choice screen to a simple logout/switch user screen.  no more hibernate and no shutdown/restart either.
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> :)
[11:40] <pygi> see? congrats :)
[11:40] <pygi> Now try changing the key in server chroot
[11:40] <pygi> that should perhaps affect all users
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> console login shows shutdown as an option for that user.  Now I will test a lower user to see what they get on console.
[11:40] <sbartleylinux> pygi: k. over my head there.
[11:41] <sbartleylinux> how does one "changing the key in server chroot"?
[11:41] <pygi> ergh, cannot really explain that :-/
[11:42] <sbartleylinux> :)  k.  cannot really understand it so now I dont feel so bad.
[11:42] <pygi> go test that "lower user" of yours first
[11:42] <sbartleylinux> lol.
[11:44] <sbartleylinux> pygi: ok.  so lower user same results.  So, it is working at least at that level.  Now.....
[11:44] <sbartleylinux> next question would be what else does upstream_session change other than the logout screen display?
[11:44] <pygi> nothing
[11:45] <sbartleylinux> will upstream_session be something that changing in the future or what does upstream mean?
[11:46] <pygi> upstream means "gnome" in this meaning
[11:46] <sbartleylinux> ah.
[11:46] <Amaranth> Burgwork: Have you ever looked at the code for RedHat's pygtk g-s-t replacements? It's horrible.
[11:46] <sbartleylinux> so, the default gnome uses "this" way.  Ubuntu uses the original panel setting.
[11:46] <pygi> what? :P
[11:47] <pygi> yup
[11:47] <sbartleylinux> k.
[11:47] <Amaranth> ubuntu adds some panel launchers and applets
[11:47] <Amaranth> but otherwise it's the same
[11:47] <pygi> there is logout, switch and cancel
[11:47] <sbartleylinux> yep.
[11:47] <pygi> sbartleylinux, thats good enough I hope?
[11:48] <sbartleylinux> So, is the inclusion of hibernate for remote users in the ubuntu tools not an issue for users of ltsp?
[11:48] <sbartleylinux> pygi: yes, if there is no way to modify the ubuntu tool configuration to meet the need, this will work for us I think.
[11:49] <pygi> sbartleylinux, I could play around with package responsible for that to remove the hibernate dialog perhaps
[11:49] <pygi> If only I knew which package was that :)
[11:49] <sbartleylinux> :) same issue I am having.
[11:49] <pygi> Amaranth, poke? :)
[11:49] <Amaranth> pygi: ouch
[11:49] <pygi> what package is responsible for logout screen?
[11:50] <Amaranth> I have absolutely no idea.
[11:50] <pygi> joy, nobody has an idea :)
[11:50] <Amaranth> But I know /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate is the gconf key you're looking for
[11:50] <pygi> sbartleylinux, does that remove that button?
[11:50] <Amaranth> i tried looking in gnome-session and gnome-panel for the patches for the ubuntu logout dialog
[11:50] <sbartleylinux> Yep, but it is on a per user basis, not a global change for remote users.
[11:50] <pygi> ergh. Amaranth *
[11:51] <Amaranth> sbartleylinux: Let me find the page that tells you how to make it system wide.
[11:51] <sbartleylinux> cool.
[11:51] <pygi> Amaranth, basicly change configuration in chroot
[11:51] <sbartleylinux> Amaranth: as long as it is system wide for remote only, not for console users.
[11:51] <Amaranth> http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/2.14/gconf-7.html
[11:52] <Amaranth> sbartleylinux: it's everyone or no one
[11:52] <pygi> if I am not mistaken
[11:52] <Amaranth> why would you hibernate the ltsp server?
[11:52] <sbartleylinux> Amaranth: exactly.  thus, the question of why is the hibernate button displayed on remote users logout screen?
[11:53] <Amaranth> late in the dapper cycle the logout dialog changed to use gnome-power-manager
[11:53] <Amaranth> i guess no one from edubuntu realized what that would do
[11:54] <sbartleylinux> that is what I think too.  Trying to figure out how they have it so it does not display restart and shutdown for remote users but does for console users.  Want to mimic that for hibernate.
[11:54] <sbartleylinux> thus, so it would not be everyone or no one if I could figure that out.
[11:55] <Amaranth> heh
[11:55] <pygi> I guess the solution I gave is kinda good, but just kinda...
[11:55] <Amaranth> lots of regular (non-ltsp) users can't get restart or shutdown either
[11:55] <Amaranth> that dialog is a buggy *deleted*
[11:55] <sbartleylinux> pygi: sorry but true.  in a perfect world, I would be able to use the default tool and simply configure it the way i need instead of changing to the upstream tool.
[11:56] <sbartleylinux> I can live with it if I cant find the way to fix the default but I have to try to find the default if I can.
[11:56] <sbartleylinux> pygi: it is good to know there is at least a workaround as a fall back.
[11:57] <pygi> perhaps you could find out the name of package from #ubuntu-devel
[11:57] <sbartleylinux> i will ask.
[11:58] <pygi> sbartleylinux, you might try to explain the problem also, they might be able to help
[11:58] <sbartleylinux> gnome-session.
[11:59] <pygi> saw that
[12:00] <pygi> sbartleylinux, try asking for solution perhaps
[12:01] <sbartleylinux> doing now.
[12:01] <pygi> saw :P
[12:03] <francoisb> Is dan young here ?
[12:04] <dan_young> francoisb: hi
[12:04] <francoisb> hello, the irc is not installed by default on dapper
[12:05] <dan_young> francoisb: I just sent a reply to the edubuntu-users list on your tftp question


[05:29] <pitti> Good morning
[05:40] <hikiko> hi
[07:17] <desrt> moin!
[07:17] <desrt> hikiko: you're up early :)
[07:17] <pitti> hey Allison, good morning!
[07:17] <desrt> 'sup pitti
[07:17] <pitti> desrt: are you already full of sausages and Sauerkraut by now? :-)
[07:17] <desrt> nope.  had none of either since i got here.
[07:18] <desrt> had some nice sauerbraten last night though
[07:18] <desrt> and lots of kölsch, of course :)
[07:18] <pitti> good choice!
[07:18] <desrt> and kartoffelklöße
[07:18]  * pitti likes Sauerbraten
[07:19] <pitti> desrt: and Rotkraut, I hope
[07:19] <desrt> ya.  obviously :p
[07:19] <desrt> although mascha ate most of it.  it's not really my thing :/
[07:19] <pitti> well, it's an art to cook it really well
[07:19] <pitti> in most restaurants it's not that good indeed
[07:19] <desrt> this one was cooked fairly well, i'd say.  i hated it less than usual :)
[07:19] <pitti> haha
[07:20] <desrt> i also figured out something really funny.....
[07:20] <desrt> i think i'm a german citizen
[07:21] <pitti> isn't that something that involves paperwork rather than thinking? :)
[07:21] <desrt> turns out in 2015 they passed some new regulation that makes it so that the mother's line is also valid, retroactively
[07:22] <desrt> well, it involves a fair deal of thinking, too.  they want you to have C1 language skills to claim your passport.  that's going to take a while :)
[07:24] <pitti> uh, indeed -- but I guess someone will be eager to practice with you :)
[07:24] <desrt> indeed
[07:24] <desrt> his name is Duo :p
[07:24]  * pitti relocates to rolling office (aka ICE train), going to Dresden today
[07:24] <pitti> desrt: Duo and Mascha together, I figure :)
[07:24] <desrt> :)
[07:25] <desrt> enjoy your 300km/h-scenery-flying-by office :)
[07:25] <pitti> more like 150 km/h, but all the same :)
[07:25] <pitti> laterz
[07:40] <flexiondotorg> pitti, desrt Morning
[07:40] <desrt> flexiondotorg: hihi
[07:40] <desrt> flexiondotorg: looking forward to the sprint?
[07:40] <flexiondotorg> Very much :-)
[07:40] <desrt> your first, right?
[07:41] <flexiondotorg> Not quite.
[07:41]  * desrt raises eyebrow
[07:41] <flexiondotorg> I was invited to the Snappt Sprint in Heidelberg earlier this year as a community contributor.
[07:42] <flexiondotorg> Snappy even.
[07:42] <desrt> ah. very nice.
[07:42] <flexiondotorg> Yep, it is great.
[07:43] <flexiondotorg> I'm looking forward to meeting everyone from their and everyone else I haven't met yet :-)
[08:00] <willcooke> o/
[08:00] <davmor2> Morning all Congratulations
[08:02] <willcooke> cheers davmor2 - couldnt have done it without you
[08:02] <willcooke> thanks for all your help
[08:04] <davmor2> no worries it's what I here for, causing headaches, trying to break the minds and will of the developers....I mean software honest ;)
[08:08] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:08] <willcooke> howdy seb128
[08:08] <seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
[08:09] <willcooke> Not great, woke up with a sore throat this morning.  I think I caught Laney's cold by spending too much time in the release channel
[08:09] <flexiondotorg> seb128, Morning.
[08:09] <flexiondotorg> willcooke, o/
[08:10] <willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
[08:10] <flexiondotorg> seb128, I'm working on a theme fix for yakkety.
[08:10] <flexiondotorg> I assume a merge-proposal tp lp:ubuntu-themes is still correct right now?
[08:10] <seb128> yes
[08:10] <flexiondotorg> Thanks.
[08:10] <seb128> yw
[08:10] <seb128> in any case it needs fixing in trunk first
[08:11] <seb128> so that's always right
[08:11] <seb128> then we might need to backport/SRU
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> seb128, And it need an SRU to Xenial.
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> So here?
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-themes/16.04
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> For another merge proposal?
[08:11] <Sweet5hark> moin
[08:11] <flexiondotorg> Sweet5hark, o/
[08:12] <seb128> I guess so
[08:12] <seb128> hey Sweet5hark, how are you?
[08:12] <flexiondotorg> Cheers.
[08:14]  * Sweet5hark is still sorry he didnt immediately shut down IRC and disappeared to the bahamas or something the second willcooke said we should take a break yesterday. ;)
[08:14] <willcooke> :D
[08:21] <davmor2> Sweet5hark: willcooke just wanted a KitKat that is the universal signal
[08:53] <flexiondotorg> davmor2, Morning
[08:53] <flexiondotorg> willcooke, Here's the MPs for dimming icons https://bugs.launchpad.net/wireshark/+bug/1578810
[08:54] <willcooke> flexiondotorg, that's awesome, nicely done
[08:54] <willcooke> flexiondotorg, any ideas why it works for me (at least I think it does)
[08:55] <flexiondotorg> You fixed it?
[08:55] <willcooke> no it was never broken here
[08:55] <flexiondotorg> It is reproducibly busted on clean installs of X and Y.
[08:55] <willcooke> I think seb128 said it was ok for him too
[08:55] <willcooke> meh
[08:55] <willcooke> either way - nicely done
[08:55] <flexiondotorg> So if text is displayed next to the icon, the text is dimmed.
[08:55] <flexiondotorg> But the icon not.
[08:56] <davmor2> willcooke: it loves you and hates flexiondotorg, you have a witch doctor protecting you, solar flares, I could go on but you get the drift ;)
[08:56] <flexiondotorg> But those apps that default to icon only, the icons are now dimmed.
[08:56] <willcooke> aliens
[08:56] <flexiondotorg> *not
[08:56] <flexiondotorg> Also, eclipse from the archive works.
[08:56] <flexiondotorg> Because it uses GTK2+ for styling hints.
[08:57] <flexiondotorg> You have to download Eclipse to exhibit the issue.
[08:57] <flexiondotorg> Because that uses GTK3+
[08:57] <flexiondotorg> But gtk3-widget-factory can be used to demonstrate the issue and the fix.
[08:57] <davmor2> willcooke: Wee timorous beastie with big pointy teeth
[08:58] <willcooke> davmor2, what? behind the rabbit?
[09:20] <willcooke> errrrrrrr
[09:20] <willcooke> oh dear
[09:20] <willcooke> seb128, about?
[09:24] <seb128> yes?
[09:24] <willcooke> Can you try this:
[09:24] <willcooke> (On your Y test machine first I think)
[09:24] <willcooke> Log in to U7
[09:25] <willcooke> System Settings -> Users ->
[09:25] <willcooke> Change your user to login without a password
[09:25] <willcooke> Close System Settings
[09:25] <willcooke> reboot
[09:25] <willcooke> From lightdm click on "login" to log the user in without a password
[09:25] <willcooke> System Settings -> Users
[09:25] <willcooke> correction:
[09:26] <willcooke> System Settings -> Users -> **UNLOCK**
[09:26] <willcooke> in the first step ^
[09:26] <willcooke> then unlock
[09:26] <willcooke> then tell me what happens :))
[09:27] <willcooke> davmor2, if you have a Y test box can you try it too ^
[09:33] <seb128> that's a known/reported bug
[09:35] <willcooke> seb128, is it a PAM thing?
[09:35] <willcooke> seb128, and is it the underlying cause of:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1630156
[09:39] <seb128> no, it's a nopasswd group special case in accoountsservice
[09:45] <davmor2> willcooke: I hate you, but you can fix it with unity8 :D
[09:46] <davmor2> willcooke: Login to unity8 you can now set a password from system-settings→security→lock and then login to unity7 and you now have a password
[09:47] <willcooke> \o/
[09:53] <seb128> going to drop offline for some hours, bbl
[09:53] <willcooke> see ya seb128
[10:38] <Fudge> hi guys, how long honestly do we have to put up with reading this long winded trolling thread on ubuntu-dev mailing list!!
[10:54] <ogra_> Fudge, it isnt ubuntu-dev (luckily) ... there is a -discuss on the name ... (seems thats kind of an invitation to such threads )
[13:17]  * flexiondotorg goes for a late lunch
[13:47] <qengho> Good morning, team. Gettin' my coffee, when there comes an enormous boom outside my house, across the street. Something was brighter than the sun for a moment. I think some critter bridged the electrical contacts of something.
[13:47] <flexiondotorg> qengho, o/
[13:48] <qengho> I was halfway under my desk when all quieted down again.
[13:48] <qengho> That was better than coffee. For me. Not for the critter.
[14:03] <willcooke> BBQ for dinner?
[14:57] <dobey> qengho: you are going via iceland?
[15:01] <qengho> dobey: Yep!
[15:02] <willcooke> dobey, I just remember something - did you see Robert Ancell's libsnapd?  I wondered if it might help you with some snap scope work
[15:03] <willcooke> dobey, http://bobthegnome.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/introducing-snapd-glib.html
[15:03] <dobey> qengho: ah, cool. arrival time is the same, so wasn't quite sure if it might be a re-badged version of the same flight from atl
[15:03] <dobey> willcooke: yeah. the snappy scope is written in golang.
[15:03] <willcooke> ah
[15:03] <willcooke> as you were
[15:03] <willcooke> :)
[15:43] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, oh, it looks like we're on the same flight on sunday
[15:44] <willcooke> chrisccoulson, from City?
[15:44] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, yeah
[15:44] <willcooke> chrisccoulson, plan is to meet there about 1400ish for an ale first if you fancy it?
[15:44] <willcooke> popey & ahayzen are on that too ^
[15:44] <popey> o/
[15:44] <ahayzen> \o/
[15:44] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, yeah, I could do
[15:45] <willcooke> I haven't looked at train times yet, but I'm expecting that to be easy
[15:45] <willcooke> unless the dreaded engineering works are on
[15:46] <willcooke> which they are no
[15:46] <willcooke> t
[15:47] <chrisccoulson> Yeah, I need to sort trains out
[15:47] <willcooke> chrisccoulson, will you end up in KGX?
[15:48] <willcooke> looks like my best option is one that gets to KGX at 13:01
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, yeah, I'm travelling from peterborough
[15:49] <willcooke> I'll be on the crappy little train from Sandy, gets in at 13:01 - if that works for you, maybe I'll meet you at the station
[15:53] <willcooke> Northern Line to Bank, DLR -> Airport
[15:53] <willcooke> bagsy front seat
[15:54] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, yeah, I've just booked a ticket to arrive at KGX at just before 13:00
[15:54] <willcooke> chrisccoulson, awesome!  I'll ping you on Telegram when I get in
[15:54] <popey> 2 hours for me from fnn to lcy via WAT!
[15:55] <willcooke> 2 hrs for me too
[15:55] <willcooke> Seb said we are wise to go to Rotterdam
[15:58] <popey> I made a telegram group for the sprint if you wanna invite people.
[16:14]  * ogra_ waves ... me please !
[16:15] <seb128> back
[16:16] <willcooke> ogra_, msg me your telegram username
[16:16] <willcooke> hey seb128
[16:16] <ogra_> willcooke, the_ogra
[16:16] <willcooke> done
[16:16] <ogra_> (no need to keep it secret ... i probably get more friends that way ;) )
[16:16] <ogra_> thanks !
[16:17] <seb128> willcooke, sorry was offline longer that expected, drove to north of France for the w.e but we were not alone doing that
[16:17] <seb128> how was the afternoon around here?
[16:17] <willcooke> seb128, nice and quiet
[16:17] <seb128> like fridays should be!
[16:38] <willcooke> ok, calling it a week.
[16:39] <willcooke> Feeling a bit fluey so going to get an early night
[16:39] <willcooke> see y'all on Sunday \o/
[17:05] <qengho> Did willcooke just admit to being patient zero?
[22:59] <Fudge> ogra_:  I believe you are correct mate :) thanks for clarification


[09:11] <BrianHechinger[m> Erich Eickmeyer: that's annoying about the FTBFS. Glad i have a workaround. 😜
[14:30] <Eickmeyer> BrianHechinger[m: Yeah, I'm going to continue working on the FTBFS with falktx.
[14:34] <BrianHechinger[m> Oh, definitely. That's a really important bugfix that should get pulled in if at all possible. Even if I'm not using Carla anymore
[15:02]  * OvenWerks wishes he would finish Catia a much lighter application
[16:01] <Eickmeyer> Looks like he needs a few days to get this sorted on 22.04 anyhow.


[07:39] <bryce> hmm, playing around with 3 tablets I have on hand, all three show up in lshal.  one genius shows up with driver 'usb' which I think is wrong, the other two wacom tablets show up with driver 'wacom'.  The genius also shows up in gimp and inkscape but the wacom's don't.  None of them seem to function though.
[07:51] <tjaalton> nice
[08:49] <tjaalton> seb128: hey, now that evdev produces sane names for the multimedia keys (XF86AudioNext etc.) the shortcuts should be updated. ok if I make a patch for gnome-c-c?
[08:50] <seb128> tjaalton: no need to do a patch, we just need to drop the one we had, I'll do that now
[08:50] <tjaalton> also, the default keyboard model should probably be forced as evdev
[08:50] <tjaalton> seb128: ah cool :)
[16:20] <tjaalton> bryce: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/dpkg/intel.diff
[16:20] <tjaalton> neil young concert! ->
[18:05] <bryce> * changelog: bring back old entries lost during an old merge (ahem..).
[18:05] <bryce>  -- was that my bad?
[18:07] <bryce> anyway, diff looks good
[19:05] <tseliot> bryce,federico1: I have fixed a bug in X-Kit and finished "xrandr-capplet.c". The Python part is almost complete as the dialogs don't load the right icon yet, however it works well.
[19:07] <tseliot> the code is all here: https://code.launchpad.net/screen-resolution-extra
[19:08] <tseliot> I'm still uploading it though
[19:50] <federico1> tseliot: cool, thanks :)  I'm setting up my build environment (yet again) to continue working on the randr stuff
[19:55] <bryce> tseliot: cool thanks.  Might not be until early next week before I have time to work on it; doing i-h testing and stuff today and friday
[21:33] <federico1> does anyone remember the i965 bug where it would say that the VGA output was connected when in fact it wasn't?
[21:53] <tjaalton> bryce: no, my bad :)
[21:54] <tjaalton> not that those are hugely useful anymore, but still
[21:58] <bryce> tjaalton: ah ok
[23:24] <tormod> can we please make it more difficult to install the evil fglrx drivers? plenty of bug reports from people who think they do the right thing when installing "ATI drivers" in Hardware Drivers.
[23:25] <tormod> especially when their card is not supported by fglrx, or they still try to use radeon or radeonhd
[23:26] <tormod> There should be some big fat warnings
[23:26] <tormod> oh it's already big, just not fat enough.
[23:27] <tormod> At least, the lamp should be green when it's not installed and red when you have impested your computer with it.
[23:29] <tormod> At the very least, it should mention "fglrx" so they see the devil's name for educational purposes.


[07:54] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[17:02]  * penguin42 drips from Brian
[18:05] <daftykins> ooh daubers you disconnecty fellow you
[18:05] <daftykins> suspiciously on a 6 minute window