[00:02] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: I know it's not your department, but do you have any inkling when Canonical plans to start actually paying attention to LoCos again, particularly with regard to web hosting?
[00:10] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: you should ask Jono
[00:11] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: I did.  He said he'd "look into it", a few weeks ago.
[00:11] <tonyyarusso> Hopefully that means things might happen, but I'm getting a tad frustrating, as Canada has been working on getting a web site since January.
[00:11] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: MagicFab tells me a LoCo Council is in the offing
[00:12] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: That'd be nice.
[00:12] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: where is ubuntu.ca now?
[00:13] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: It's on Canonical servers now - but we can't edit it.  (Post content yes, edit the actual site no.  Note the broken links, which I keep having to field e-mails from users about.)
[00:14] <tonyyarusso> Shoot, I'm going to be late for choir.  /me runs out
[00:18] <ardchoille> Does anyone remember seeing this ip in the ban list for #ubuntu <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[00:19] <LjL> ardchoille: nope, never been there
[00:19] <PriceChild> gah bantracker barfed
[00:19] <LjL> PriceChild: was probably me :)
[00:19] <ardchoille> LjL: ok, thanks
[00:19] <PriceChild> LjL, does it have huge problems with multiple users then?
[00:19]  * PriceChild never bothered to nose into the reason
[00:20] <Pici> PriceChild: the bantracker?
[00:20] <LjL> PriceChild, sqlite doesn't really handle concurrency. as i understand it, it waits 5 seconds to complete a query, and if it's not completed after that time, it barfs
[00:20] <Pici> Probably due to using sqlite instead of a real database, pgsql/mysql
[00:20] <PriceChild> Pici, never seen the bantracker?
[00:20] <Jack_Sparrow> If people have 1 gig of ram are we telling them to not setup swap partitions.. I know they will most likely not be used...
[00:20] <PriceChild> hehe
[00:20] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: we're not
[00:20] <Pici> PriceChild: I mean are you re ferring to the bantracker.
[00:20] <PriceChild> Jack_Sparrow, we're not suggesting that
[00:21] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: a swap partition *is* important to have.
[00:21] <Pici> And, I use it every day.
[00:21] <PriceChild> Pici, yes :)
[00:21] <Jack_Sparrow> wols has suggested it repeatedly
[00:21] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: 1) no swap partition (or a swap partition smaller than the RAM) doesn't let hibernation work
[00:21] <Jack_Sparrow> including the person he is helping right now..
[00:21] <Pici> Not that hibernation is working anyway... but thats not the point.
[00:21] <Jack_Sparrow> agreed.. but he has jumped me a couple of times over the issue
[00:22] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: 2) even if you have enough RAM to fit all your applications, the kernel may rightfully decide that it prefers to cache a huge amount of files into RAM *and swap some programs out*. that's desired behavior.
[00:22] <Jack_Sparrow> I always suggest it...   just pointing it out that some others are not
[00:22] <ikonia> Jack_Sparrow: I have a machine with 8 GB of ram and it uses swap well
[00:22] <Jack_Sparrow> read back with eagle and wols...
[00:23] <ikonia> what is wols on about
[00:23] <ikonia> there is no need for iftab use udev
[00:23] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: my scrollback is short... but i see him talking about *swapfiles* over swap partitions
[00:23] <ikonia> udev won't create /dev device nodes
[00:24] <wols_> si?
[00:24] <LjL> wols_, we were chatting about the merits (or lack of) of having swap
[00:25] <LjL> wols_: i think as a rule, it shouldn't be recommended to deactivate swap, even if one has a quite big amount of RAM
[00:25] <Jack_Sparrow> [15:56] <Jack_Sparrow> Eagleray: Wont he need to make a swap partiton too.     [15:57] <Eagleray> Jack_Sparrow: only if he's lacking in ram
[00:25] <LjL> 1) no swap partition (or a swap partition smaller than the RAM) doesn't let hibernation work   2) even if you have enough RAM to fit all your applications, the kernel may rightfully decide that it prefers to cache a huge amount of files into RAM *and swap some programs out*. that's desired behavior
[00:25] <wols_> I run fine without on this 256MB box. will soon need it if/when wine works as intended (some autoit program which gives me grief)
[00:26] <wols_> yes, but with 1GB depending what you do (video stuff?) you don't really need swap
[00:26] <ikonia> I disagree
[00:26]  * mneptok does, too
[00:26] <LjL> wols_, but then people complain that hibernation doesn't work, and you're left wondering why, until you realize they don't have swap because they've been recommended to disable it
[00:27] <Pici> I have 1gb of ram, not doing any media creation and routinely I see swap being used.
[00:27] <LjL> also, ikonia noted earlier: I have a machine with 8 GB of ram and it uses swap well
[00:27] <LjL> it certainly does depend on what you do
[00:27] <ikonia> kswap is your friend :)
[00:27] <mneptok> deactivating swap is a definite no-no. if it was unnecessary, the distro team wouldn't auto-create a partition at install time.
[00:27] <LjL> but even on a "normal desktop system" (if such a thing exists), you can end up doing things, like, say, copying a large amount of files, which the kernel may judge will be helped by swapping out some processes
[00:28] <wols_> LjL: I agree. mine is a headless server. no hibernation.
[00:28] <ikonia> thats good memory managment
[00:28] <wols_> hibernation is a valid point on a notebook especially
[00:28] <Jack_Sparrow> My only prupose for bringing it up is to provide consistent information and support
[00:28] <wols_> LjL: what do you do in those 8GB?
[00:29] <ikonia> thats my machine
[00:29] <mneptok> wols_: it's not about what users do. it's about what the kernel wants to do.
[00:29] <ikonia> and it will swap out stuff that's not being used
[00:29] <ikonia> even when it's not doing anything
[00:29] <wols_> Jack_Sparrow: essentially it's an extreme version of "how much swap should I use" with the infamous 1.5x your ram rule which is stupid in the age fo 2GB machines
[00:29] <LjL> wols_: yup, i see it may be a perfectly valid setup for you... i'm just talking about what should and shouldn't be recommended to users in #ubuntu - if they feel comfortable with deactivating swap, it's their prerogative, but they shouldn't be given the impression it's generally a good thing. if they know it works for them, then they'll do it without asking
[00:29] <wols_> ikonia: my (debian sid) desktop has swap. never seen it used
[00:30] <mneptok> !WFM | wols_
[00:30] <ubotu> wols_: Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[00:30] <LjL> wols_: that you should ask ikonia, it was his comment. but... 8GB is less than the size of any hard drive of today, so i think it's perfectly possible that the kernel may decide to fill up the RAM with cache
[00:30] <Jack_Sparrow> I am happy to go with whatever is the official response....
[00:30] <ikonia> depends how your machine is setup
[00:30] <wols_> LjL: as I said, swapfiles are (imho) fine
[00:30] <ikonia> everything has it's place
[00:30] <ikonia> swapfiles for average joe/mass majority desktop users arn't a great call
[00:30] <wols_> but they're harder to setup of course
[00:30] <Pici> ikonia: took the words right out of my mouth... or is it fingers?
[00:31] <ikonia> chooses not to progress that discussion
[00:31] <ikonia> ;)
[00:31] <LjL> wols_, swapfiles may do i suppose, i've never really investigated them. i'd merely prefer it weren't recommended to attempt things like deactivating swap or, for that matter, using a swapfile, since i don't think it's officially "supported". if someone explicitly asks "how do i use a swap file instead of a partition", i suppose that's fine to answer them
[00:32] <wols_> LjL: supported by whom? the kernel once upon a time )2.2 or so) a bias against them but to the best of my knowledge not anymore
[00:32] <Jack_Sparrow> Sorry guys.. didn't mean to poke the bear.. again...
[00:33] <LjL> wols_: supported by Ubuntu itself, i.e. recommended by the kernel team for instance
[00:33] <ikonia> wols_: that was due to a limit with the gnu tools, not actually the kernel
[00:33] <wols_> ikonia: which tools?
[00:33] <ikonia> off the top of my head, no idea
[00:33] <ikonia> 2.0 was a long time ago
[00:33] <wols_> Jack_Sparrow: discussions like that are what makes it interesting
[00:33] <Jack_Sparrow> guys..  my head is killing me.. I need to take some meds and go lay down.. cya tomorrow....
[00:34] <wols_> answer "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" or "show me your xorg.log all day gets booooring
[00:34] <Jack_Sparrow> wols.. take care..  and thanks
[00:34] <Jack_Sparrow> :)
[00:34] <Jack_Sparrow> goodnight
[00:34] <LjL> wols_: i think i can understand that :)
[00:34] <LjL> good night Jack_Sparrow
[00:34] <mneptok> the default Ubuntu install creates a swap partition, not a swap file, and certainly no swap at all. users should not be encouraged to stray too far from default behaviors.
[00:35] <wols_> mneptok: you're right. for ubuntu a swappart by the installer is the best and only way
[00:35] <ikonia> it's mass majority over more advanced users
[00:35] <ikonia> if your advanced to know the benifits of no swap over the draw backs, you won't be asking about it
[00:35] <ikonia> to an extent anyway
[00:35] <LjL> ikonia: users who are advanced enough to do it, know how to do it ;)
[00:36] <ikonia> exactly
[00:36] <mneptok> more advanced users don't ask questions about basic partitioning schemas in Freenode's #ubuntu. trust me. ;)
[00:36] <ikonia> ..............how do you do it ;)
[00:36] <LjL> although... i have no idea how to use a swap file. but i suppose google would help - or if i made it *very* clear in #ubuntu that i'm not confused, and that i *really* want a swap file, and know the advantages&drawbacks...
[00:37] <ikonia> LjL: then you don't get "please give me the exact commands to type"
[00:37] <mneptok> i'd actually pull that convo to a PM or another channel at that point
[00:37] <mneptok> otherwise it's like talking about wolves at a deer convention
[00:37] <ikonia> the danger is that someone reads it
[00:37] <LjL> perhaps. #ubuntu-classroom what the common choice at one point, but a desire has been expressed to keep it a bit more clean
[00:37] <ikonia> and then thinks "he said it's better, I want it! I don't know why, but I want it!"
[00:38] <mneptok> ikonia: that's usually when i say "homosexual sex is *awesome*"
[00:38] <mneptok> >:)
[00:38]  * ikonia craves
[00:38] <ikonia> I don't know why
[00:38] <ikonia> but I want it !
[00:38] <mneptok> omg. it's like he *knew*

[00:38] <mneptok> and HI GARY!
[00:39] <LjL> mneptok, that was a double violet highlight you know
[00:39] <ikonia> mneptok: Gary's ears where pricked up
[00:39] <Pici> wow
[00:39] <Gary> hey
[00:39] <Gary> knew what
[00:39] <mneptok> LjL: is "Situation: Double Violet" the new code term for "mnep just became active" ?
[00:39] <ikonia> it's like the shop keeper from Mr Ben, say "homosexual sex" 3 times and <someone> appears ;)
[00:39] <Gary> oi
[00:40] <LjL> mneptok: no, just pretty convincing evidence
[00:40] <mneptok> floodlet for Gazzypantaloons:
[00:40] <ikonia> Gary: I think "Mr Ben" is wasted on our USA friends
[00:40] <mneptok> 19:34 < ikonia> and then thinks "he said it's better, I want it! I don't know why, but I want it!"
[00:40] <mneptok> 19:34 <+mneptok> ikonia: that's usually when i say "homosexual sex is *awesome*"
[00:40] <mneptok> 19:34 <+mneptok> >:)
[00:40] <mneptok> 19:34  * ikonia craves
[00:40] <mneptok> 19:34 < ikonia> I don't know why
[00:40] <mneptok> 19:34 < ikonia> but I want it !
[00:40] <mneptok> 19:34 -!- Gary<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #Ubuntu-Ops
[00:40] <ikonia> I said Gary's key word
[00:40] <ikonia> "I want it"
[00:40] <LjL> !pony
[00:40] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pony - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[00:41] <LjL> bleah
[00:41] <ikonia> mneptok: how is your nick pronounced
[00:41] <mneptok> "sir"
[00:41] <ardchoille> haha
[00:41] <Gary> ikonia, w e i r d o
[00:41] <LjL> it's not, in most circumstances
[00:42] <ikonia> it's a typed one, rather than spoken one
[00:42] <Pici> I can honestly say, that I pronounce it completely wrong in my head.
[00:42] <ikonia> it always sounds like "menp tock" on my head
[00:42] <ikonia> I know that's not how it's said
[00:42] <TheSheep> click click click click click click click click
[00:42] <Pici> ikonia: me too
[00:43] <ikonia> Pici: I feel less silly now
[00:43] <Pici> But like I said, I knwow thats wrong.
[00:43] <ikonia> agreed
[00:43] <Gary> if I ever talk and mention him, I say that weird geezer who works for canonical
[00:43] <Gary> then say, no, not mark, the other one :p
[00:43]  * Gary hides
[00:44] <LjL> the one with empty pockets
[00:44] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[00:44] <Gary> those pockets cannot be empty, as he is always playing with something in them...
[00:45] <ikonia> right, I'm going back to playing with perl 5.10
[00:45] <Gary> probably a good thing
[00:45] <ikonia> as the conents of mneptok's pockets and his own busines
[00:45] <somerville32> And I'm going to go back to hacking on Python 2.6! :D
[00:51] <wols_> so how big should the swap be for a 1GB RAM machine. fast suggestions needed :)
[00:51] <wols_> is 1GB exact enough for hibernation?
[00:51] <somerville32> 1GB should be good for swap
[00:52] <LjL> wols_: i'd make it at least a bit in excess of 1GB, just to be sure, but yes
[00:52] <LjL> there's certainly no need to follow any weird "2x RAM" or "2.5x RAM" rules
[00:52] <wols_> was thinking of 1.2. or is 1.1 enough?
[00:52] <LjL> 1.1 should be fine
[00:53] <LjL> wols_: only, careful with GB vs GiB
[00:53] <somerville32> I read it should be 1x RAM
[00:53] <LjL> somerville32: for hibernation to work, yes. but making it a little more than that won't hurt surely
[00:54]  * somerville32 nods.
[00:54] <LjL> now how much is a GB and how much is a GiB... /me gets calculator
[00:55] <LjL> yes, 1.1 "GB" should be OK even with decimal
[00:56] <LjL> 1GiB is<PHONE_NUMBER> bytes, so<PHONE_NUMBER> bytes will fit it
[01:18] <ubotu> soundray called the ops in #ubuntu (fabio abusive)
[02:43] <somerville32> If someone sees gouki, can you let me know that some of the channels on stats don't seem to be getting rebuilt?
[02:43] <somerville32> Oh, he is online
[03:25] <Tm_T> QMario: hi?
[03:37] <Tm_T> deuryte: hi how are you?
[03:37] <Tm_T> :(
[03:38] <ardchoille> What's the issue with deuryte ?
[03:38] <Tm_T> ardchoille: nickspam, trolling
[03:38] <ardchoille> Ah
[03:38] <Tm_T> 0438.08 < Tm_T> 0419.06 -!- deuryte_ is now known as allah
[03:38] <Tm_T> 0438.14 < Tm_T> 0428.04 -!- allah is now known as one_true_God
[03:39] <ardchoille> How silly
[03:39] <Tm_T> just for small example
[03:40] <ardchoille> Tm_T: Can you teach me how to ban+forward? I know how to ban. kick and +q
[03:40] <Tm_T> ardchoille: just !#channel to the end of banmask
[03:41] <ardchoille> Tm_T: Ah, thank you
[04:00] <QMario> Hello Tm_T.
[04:11] <tonyyaru1so> ...
[04:11] <tonyyaru1so> oh, not ID
[04:12] <Pici> tonyyarulso?
[04:12] <Pici> Interesting place to stick a 1
[04:12] <tonyyarusso> Pici: Got confused about why I'd lost a channel access.
[04:12] <Pici> Ah..
[04:13]  * tonyyarusso blames comcast
[04:24] <Tm_T> QMario: may I ask your being here?
[04:31] <QMario> Tm_T, I automatically log in here.
[04:31] <QMario> Tm_T, I am not in trouble or anything.
[04:32] <Tm_T> QMario: you know this is not casual chat room?
[04:32] <QMario> Tm_T, I know.
[04:32] <Tm_T> as in, if you don't need to be here, don't be here ;)
[04:33] <QMario> Then I would never have met you, Tm_T. Okay, goodbye. Thank you for the chat.
[04:33] <Tm_T> heh
[04:33] <Tm_T> and welcome to ubuntu community
[04:33] <Pici> I thought he was an op somewhere...
[04:34] <Tm_T> apparently not
[04:34] <Tm_T> who knows
[04:34] <Pici> Hmm... someone is #ubuntu is asking a question regarding a situation about the CoC...
[04:34] <Tm_T> Pici: ?
[04:35] <Pici> oh... /me reads -offtopic
[04:35] <Tm_T> :)
[04:37] <tonyyarusso> who are they talking about Pici ?
[04:37] <Pici> Hobbsee: if you're joining -offtopic because of my above comment, I asked the user to join here.
[04:37] <Hobbsee> ahh
[04:37] <Pici> tonyyarusso: kharytan (spelling?)
[04:37] <Hobbsee> yeah, and general sanity
[04:37] <tonyyarusso> ah
[04:37] <Hobbsee> urgh.
[04:37] <Hobbsee> him again?
[04:37] <Pici> 23:34:44 <kitofhawaii> bazhang: well...it's a lot more complicated than that...apparently the person that's helping me start a  loco has turned out to have a huge reputation as a troll
[04:37]  * Hobbsee wonders how he even got in -offtopic then
[04:38] <Pici> Its a different person, this guy/gal just has a CoC question/issue.
[04:38] <Hobbsee> heya kitofhawaii
[04:38] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: hey there :)
[04:39] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: what's up?
[04:39] <kitofhawaii> Pici: yah apparently everyone else knows about him...i'm kind of surprised and confused about the best thing to do about our team
[04:39] <kitofhawaii> should i just be frank about it?
[04:39] <Hobbsee> based on the emails that i've had with him, do your team without him :)
[04:40] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: unsure if you know this, but the person in question doesn't believe in authorities, and if they don't side with him, they're biased, and incredibly rude.
[04:40] <kitofhawaii> well he's pretty much cybersquatted much of the team...but part of the problem is more personal because he's moving here, and he's going to be living less than half a mile away
[04:40] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: if he can't work as part of the team, and you guys know that, then cut him out for the good of the team.
[04:41] <Hobbsee> and i'd suggest not handing out your address :)
[04:41] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: i've gathered that quite a bit...quite a few times i've been accused that he feels i am taking over the team...but i mean, i was under the impression we were going to work together
[04:41] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: bad idea.  don't do it
[04:41] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: oh he doesn't know beyond that i live down in the same town :)
[04:41] <Pici> kitofhawaii: I'm not exactly sure how to say this.. but the comments that he has made in here regarding his situation leads me to believe that he is very paranoid.
[04:42] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: his impression of "working together" means "workign together, as long as you agree with him on all issues"
[04:42] <Hobbsee> and i'm sad to have found this out, with recent emails
[04:42] <kitofhawaii> pici: i have gathered that...i mean i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. he is really excited about this and i think he would be valuable if we were able to mentor him here
[04:43] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: yah, i know. i mean this process just started so i mean i didn't have any idea. most of the reason i was working with him on it was because he went and registered the irc team so he's owner currently
[04:43] <Pici> nalioth (was going to avoid a ping, but oh well), was probing him the other day about his involvement in the hawaii loco team. I think he was kind of concerned that someone not living there was one of the co-leaders.  Or he could have just been curious.
[04:44] <kitofhawaii> now it's like wow i mean if he's this odd towards me...there's been some odd things said (frankly very nasty) but i have an iron backbone. other team members probably won't
[04:44] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: it wouldn't be hard to get hte irc council to hijack it to you
[04:45] <tonyyarusso> Aargh, why are chocolate truffles so addicting..
[04:45] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: i would expect the irc council to make a judgement on what's good for the hawaii team, and so hijack the channel, and give ownership to you
[04:45] <kitofhawaii> Pici: yah, he's fully aware what nalioth is in there for. today i made the decision i'm not going to talk to him about team activities outside of the irc channel, since he, as you said, is so paranoid about ops
[04:46] <Pici> Hobbsee: I thought that 'we' were leaving irc stuff to the loco teams.
[04:46] <Pici> er, loco team managment. Or I may be missing something.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> Pici: unless there's a very good reason not to, yes.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> Pici: however, the name *does* fall in our namespace, so it is hijackable.
[04:46] <Pici> Hobbsee: Right, I see how this could be an extenuating circumstance.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: are you the alternate team contact for the hawaii team?
[04:46] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: if that's what is best for the team, i'd consider it. but that's why i'm coming to you guys to ask about it :) i want to do what's right
[04:47] <Hobbsee> well, it's a bit hard, as the council isn't here right now, but..
[04:47]  * tonyyarusso added UbuntuIrcCouncil to his team's access list to remove any doubt
[04:47] <Pici> From what I remember from the other day, theres a single gmail address as the contact which you both share?
[04:47] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: i believe so, kahrytan cybersquatted that and out of the interest of being polite i didn't complain...but i'm pretty sure it's been changed since then yes
[04:47] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: access list != team ownership
[04:47] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: *nod*
[04:47] <kitofhawaii> Pici: there is, yes, i finally have access to that account :)
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Yeah, I know.  Helps for most normal things though, in the same sense as freenode/staff/*
[04:48] <kitofhawaii> Pici: but he didn't use that to list the team
[04:48] <tonyyarusso> speaking of addresses.../me pops to #launchpad
[04:48]  * Hobbsee pokes elkbuntu
[04:49] <kitofhawaii> Pici: honestly i don't know 100% what he's done so far. he went on a mass registering/etc trip to pretty much get ownership of everything. at the time i just viewed it as someone being very helpful, but as of late i'm not so sure
[04:49] <Hobbsee> if it were me, i'd just get as much stuff transfered over to !him as possible, asap
[04:49] <Myrtti> plirpp
[04:49] <Hobbsee> which sovles a mass leadership debate later
[04:49] <Myrtti> <3
[04:49] <Myrtti> moin
[04:49] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, back, just walked in actually
[04:49] <elkbuntu> reading backlog
[04:50] <tonyyarusso> Myrtti: plorrp
[04:50] <Pici> kitofhawaii: I'm not sure what his intentions are either...
[04:50] <Myrtti> /me hugs everyone
[04:50] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: to !him?  :) to kahrytan?
[04:51] <Pici> to him? or from him?
[04:51] <no0tic> /me hugs Myrtti
[04:51] <elkbuntu> well, considering he is a troll and has proven he doesnt understand the CoC... something can be done, however since this goes beyond IRC, it needs more than just our mediation
[04:51] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: to not kahrytan
[04:51] <Hobbsee> kitofhawaii: didn't you ever do electronics?  :)
[04:52] <Pici> Hobbsee: I thought it was some weird factoid reference.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: no point shoving it to the CC, though
[04:52] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: oh...yes yes sorry i missed the reference =))
[04:52] <Pici> elkbuntu: I honestly didn't know where else to send kitofhawaii..
[04:52] <Hobbsee> Pici: nah.  boolean electronics
[04:52] <kitofhawaii> Hobbsee: i guess i'm just used to seeing !topic in regards to ubotu
[04:52] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, no, i know. i'm referring to the impending LoCo council which is still not established
[04:52] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: ah right
[04:52] <Pici> Ah, okay.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: no point sending it there either, though
[04:52] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, which leaves us with Lord Bacon
[04:52] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: well, okay, i guess there could be
[04:53] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: he won't trust lord bacon either.
[04:53] <elkbuntu> which would probably incite him to get the LoCo Council finished off
[04:53] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: still, for a hijack, kah...tan doesn't actually *need* to be happy with the end result, as he won't get the stuff back.
[04:53] <tonyyarusso> Oh, the day Jono gets a title will be the end of England...
[04:53]  * Hobbsee can never spell that nick
[04:53] <Pici> Me either.
[04:54] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, he's not going to trust the CC either, so we're at a no-win situation if you take that as a reason to not bother
[04:54]  * tonyyarusso wouldn't mind having a hot coal under some people to get a LoCo Council up and running
[04:54] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: was thinking of it from his POV only there
[04:54] <Pici> 'he' = ktan?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> wasn't exactly saying "he won't accept any of it.  therefore, do nothing"
[04:55] <Hobbsee> i'm more saying
[04:55]  * Pici is confused.
[04:55] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, then dont bother with what he will or will not accept
[04:55] <Hobbsee> "any of the reasonable bodies can do it, as he won't trust any of them regardless"
[04:55] <kitofhawaii> i'll follow whatever you guys recommend in this situation. maybe transferring everything to a third party of some sorts? i really have no concern about my personal ownership of anything, just incredibly concerned about his
[04:55] <Hobbsee> Pici: yes
[04:55] <Pici> I was lost in a sea of pronouns.
[04:56] <elkbuntu> kitofhawaii, as are we, hence the monitoring nal's been doing
[04:57] <kitofhawaii> elkbuntu: yah i'm really appreciative of all that has come out from this. :) regardless of him, the concern that's been shown has been really nice
[04:58] <elkbuntu> kitofhawaii, he's a poisonous person, that's for sure
[04:58] <elkbuntu> we just dont want him to make the loco into a troll recruiting ground
[04:59] <Pici> Or turn people away from Ubuntu for bad experiences in your loco team
[04:59] <Pici> Sorry, Potentially bad experiences.
[05:00] <kitofhawaii> i agree fully with you both. i haven't recruited anyone to join up even though there's interest because of this situation
[05:00] <kitofhawaii> i'm really concerned about bringing people in and there being a flame-out in the channel
[05:01] <kitofhawaii> or his opinion about ops and whatnot being so negative telling other members what he thinks of you guys :) it's just not productive
[05:03] <kitofhawaii> i just wish he could keep his personal opinions about things to himself, but i discovered that he can flame up and just say some really nasty things when the wrong button is pushed
[05:06] <elkbuntu> yep
[05:13] <nalioth> all of his actions re the hawaiin ubuntu team on LP and here are suspect after his behavioral history
[05:17] <nalioth> he has not shown any desire to help Ubuntu before he went and registered the hawaii parts of Ubuntu irc and launchpad....
[05:17] <kitofhawaii> yes, i have learned that. at least at minimum i made a decision today to stop talking to him in pm regarding team affairs or in general and only communicate in the channel, since it gave him an avenue to say things that just didn't seem right.
[05:19] <kitofhawaii> yeah. i didn't have a history with him so i didn't know what was going on. i just assumed he was doing his best to help and i still feel that's probably correct in his own way.
[05:20] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: what are those mails you did refer to?
[05:20] <nalioth> kitofhawaii: have you seen the logs of this channel?
[05:20] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: i mailed him about his conduct, etc
[05:20] <kitofhawaii> so like registering the channel and launchpad, it seemed like he was being ambitious (probably true) and i liked that about him. :) but his ambition isn't what concerns me so much as the part about having that power will do
[05:21] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: possibility to see his answers?
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> Does Planet Ubuntu's config.ini have a way to specify the base URL of the site separately from the feed URL?  For instance, I want the feed of http://tonyyarusso.com/taxonomy/term/73/0/feed, but for my name to link to http://tonyyarusso.com/, not http://tonyyarusso.com/taxonomy/term/73/0
[05:23] <nalioth> you may ask uncle google "kahrytan site:http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/" and get a eyefull, kitofhawaii
[05:23] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: i have not. i did want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't repeat whatever past history was there
[05:24] <nalioth> check out the logs, kitofhawaii
[05:24] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: ok :) *checking now*
[05:24] <nalioth> people who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it and all that good stuff
[05:25] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: :) that is true. but if he was able to get over what he found out about my personal life and still work with me, i thought there was hope :)
[05:27] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: "clean slate" and whatnot. but that is still no justification for not looking you are right :)
[05:43] <Tm_T> stdin: YAY!
[05:43]  * Tm_T hides
[05:43] <stdin> :)
[05:44] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: i guess uncle google's not helping me much tonight. :)
[05:49] <nalioth> http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF8&q=kahrytan+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Firclogs.ubuntu.com%2F   kitofhawaii check out the logs from #ubuntu-ops
[05:54] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: i have checked them twice. but the only thing i saw was in one log about how he was a known troll re riotkittie, and him apologizing for being upset in here one time. after that, i don't see anything that would've brought this much attention on him. certainly indications something happened, but not what happened if that makes sense
[05:54] <nalioth> it is unfortunate that most of his feelings have been made known in PM or other channels
[05:55] <nalioth> all of the irc council has logs from him with this persecution complex evident
[05:56] <kitofhawaii> that is true. i saw in forums he tried to ask about reporting irc ops
[06:03] <kitofhawaii> so what you recommend i do with this now? it's really evident to me that you all are universally against him co-running/co-leading the loco and i agree with that. what should i do now?
[06:05] <nalioth> whatever _you_ do, is gonna put you on his 'bad list'
[06:05] <nalioth> even if you do nothing
[06:08] <kitofhawaii> lol that's a mighty big pickle yes :)
[06:09] <kitofhawaii> i don't have a problem being on his bad side. i have forced my opinion in certain cases with him, and i have managed worse in real life at work.
[06:09] <Tm_T> aye
[06:09] <Tm_T> kitofhawaii: problem is, if he is "leader", everyone is in his backside, and will suffer
[06:09] <kitofhawaii> so i am willing to do whatever is necessary to see to the success of this team
[06:09] <Tm_T> when he is not in any leadership-kind of state, his backside cant hurt
[06:10] <Tm_T> backside/bad side
[06:10] <kitofhawaii> yah :)
[06:10] <Tm_T> there will be damage, now its only matter of how much and for who
[06:11] <kitofhawaii> it's now become a question so much of what to do but be able to abide by the CoC because i want to make things are done correct from the community's perspective
[06:11] <kitofhawaii> and to be honest i have found the situation mildly humorous for many reasons :) so i'm not under a lot of stress about it, because i know it'll work out one path or another
[06:12] <kitofhawaii> i do have a thick skin :) and people like this, i do feel sorry for, and i definitely don't take it personally.
[06:14] <kitofhawaii> after all, i do represent so many things he is against. that he has worked with me at all has been impressive
[06:15] <nalioth> freenode staff had a helper back in the day that was one of the best users to be inducted into the staff
[06:16] <nalioth> the best most hard working staffer until he used his access to dump the network  :(
[06:16] <no0tic> o.o
[06:16] <Tm_T> nalioth: whatta...
[06:19] <Tm_T> oh yes, I think I'll go now, see you all later ->
[06:20] <kitofhawaii> Tm_T: bye :)
[06:24] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: he is really insistent about chatting in pm
[06:25] <nalioth> kitofhawaii: i have adopted a rule for myself.  i don't discuss any #ubuntu* business outside of #ubuntu* channels
[06:26] <nalioth> this protects everyone, as there will be public logs
[06:26] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: that's what i'm telling him...it's going over like a lead brick but i will keep doing so
[06:27] <nalioth> if he has nothing to hide, he should have no problem with that
[06:40] <kitofhawaii> how do i block whois btw? he's been using that to track me...
[06:41] <nalioth> kitofhawaii: /umode +i
[06:41] <kitofhawaii> i don't care about what people see me doing in channels or where..just he tends to get well...touchy about that :)
[06:41] <nalioth> there is no way to block a /whois, but +i will hide any channels you don't share with the inquisitor
[06:42] <kitofhawaii> nalioth: that's perfect thank you :)
[06:42] <Myrtti> /whois nick nick is even scarier ;-)
[06:44] <no0tic> Myrtti, what's the difference?
[06:44] <Myrtti> it tells you the idle time and away reason
[06:44] <Myrtti> I use it to stalk people too ;-)
[06:44] <no0tic> Myrtti, ;)
[06:44] <Myrtti> that and notify :-D
[06:45] <no0tic> nalioth, is it true that staffers can see whom is whois-ing them?
[06:45] <nalioth> no0tic: not really, no
[07:02] <jdong> no0tic: can see _who_.
[07:04] <Myrtti> /me starts to rape nalioth
[07:04] <Myrtti> 's wii
[07:04] <Myrtti> :-P
[07:05] <Myrtti> bad typo
[07:05] <Myrtti> :-<
[07:05] <nalioth> 0_o
[07:05] <Myrtti> I've always hated the position of the ' -key in Finnish layout
[07:05] <Myrtti> it sucks.
[07:05] <Myrtti> and so does my laggy Internet connection too
[07:06] <Myrtti> hrmph
[07:06] <no0tic> jdong, thanks for helping out with my bad english
[07:06] <jdong> Myrtti: haha :D
[07:06] <jdong> no0tic: lol I just like being a grammar nazi when I'm bored :)
[07:07] <no0tic> jdong, me too, and I hate doing errors
[07:07] <Myrtti> /me backs up to the excuse that I just moisturized my hands
[07:07] <Myrtti> :->
[07:07] <jdong> Myrtti: is that related to the first statement at all? :D
[07:07] <Myrtti> /me backs away silently
[07:07] <Myrtti> buhbye :-P
[07:08] <no0tic> jdong, and I love grammar nazis (LjL sorry for the hilights)
[07:08] <jdong> :)
[07:08] <jdong> he has nazis on highlight?
[07:08] <no0tic> jdong, he had some days ago
[07:08] <somerville32> LjL is a guy? :P
[07:09] <Myrtti> /me facepalms
[07:09] <jdong> somerville32: every geek has a little guy inside him
[07:09] <jdong> err wait.... that phrasing was bad....
[07:09] <somerville32> 0_o
[07:09] <no0tic> jdong, something about some trolls around, "nazi" spamming #ubuntu channel
[07:09] <jdong> ah
[07:09] <somerville32> I remember that
[07:10] <somerville32> They complained to every mailing list available, lol
[07:10]  * somerville32 wishes ops didn't have to exist and everyone just simply got along nicely :(
[07:10] <Myrtti> fat chance
[07:10] <somerville32> Pfft.
[07:10] <somerville32> Not with an attitude like that :P
[07:11] <Myrtti> even the romans had operators in senate
[07:11] <Myrtti> :-P
[07:11] <Myrtti> mwahaha
[07:12] <somerville32> Btw, I was just wondering, is fubar taboo?
[07:17] <jdong> I wouldn't think so, it's a pretty common term used in speech that the (b)acronym is not all that obvious
[07:21] <no0tic> jdong, I'd like you to correct me whenever I'm wrong :)
[07:22] <jdong> haha I will do so then :)
[07:57] <jussi01> morning all
[07:58] <jussi01> kitofhawaii: can we help you?
[07:58] <somerville32> kitofhawaii is cool
[07:58] <jussi01> oh ok
[07:59] <jussi01> :)
[07:59] <somerville32> :)
[07:59] <nalioth> jussi01: kitofhawaii is a member of the hawaii loco team
[07:59] <jussi01> nalioth: ahhh ok.
[07:59] <kitofhawaii> jussi01: :) i was returning in after having dropped out :) apparently all i need to mention in this channel is kahrytan and everyone understands :)
[08:00]  * jussi01 wishes more people who are supposed to be in here would have voices...
[08:00] <jussi01> kitofhawaii: hehe, yeah :)
[08:04] <Gary> but kitofhawaii you mentioned that nick in another channel and everyone there understood too :p
[08:06] <kitofhawaii> Gary: that's true :) honestly if he didn't cybersquat everything it would've been fine, but i had no idea. i was trying to organize this stuff in an orderly fashion and when he showed up it was like a fire drill honestly. :)
[08:06] <Gary> haha
[08:07] <somerville32> I wonder if he'll ever read the things we say about him when he isn't logged in
[08:09] <elkbuntu> kitofhawaii, he's trying to get status to spite us, and he's going it at the disregard of everyone else
[08:09] <jussi01> hmmm, is it only seveas who can give access to bt?
[08:10] <Gary> jussi01, yeah, :-(
[08:10] <jussi01> hmmm, anyone know when the great man is likely to drop  by?
[08:11] <somerville32> jussi01, e-mail is most likely a better idea
[08:11] <kitofhawaii> elkbuntu: i have come to understand that seriously. luckily he hasn't acted on things he's said at least for his sake
[08:11] <somerville32> jussi01, get him to transfer control to the IRC Council or something :P
[08:11] <Gary> or a flight over to ams?
[08:12] <somerville32> @now amsterdamn
[08:12] <jussi01> Gary: that would be nice :)
[08:12] <somerville32> @btlogin
[08:12]  * jussi01 goes off to email seveas...
[08:13] <Gary> jussi01, can you include me on the email?
[08:13] <jussi01> Gary: yeah, what do you want about you?
[08:13] <jussi01> :P
[08:14] <Gary> a btlogin :p
[08:14] <Myrtti> jussi01: and me?
[08:14] <Myrtti> :-P
[08:14] <Myrtti> though I haven't tried
[08:14] <Myrtti> @btlogin
[08:14] <Gary> @btlogin
[08:14] <Gary> yay failed :p
[08:14] <jussi01> ok, ok, anyone else want bantracker access? Ill send a big group email...
[08:14] <jussi01> @btlogin
[08:14] <Myrtti> /me checks
[08:15] <somerville32> You can put my name in there.
[08:15] <Myrtti> If I had access, how would ubotu act?
[08:15] <jussi01> ardchoille: Ill pop you in as well ;)
[08:15] <Myrtti> and how if not?
[08:15] <jussi01> Myrtti: if not, it will give authenticaion failed or similar
[08:15] <somerville32> Myrtti, if you did have access, it would not say: Error: Authntication failed
[08:15] <ardchoille> jussi01: Pop me in where?
[08:15] <Myrtti> oh, then I have access to it
[08:15] <Gary> Myrtti, if it fails it pm's you ubotu> Error: Authntication failed (spelling mistakes FTW)
[08:15] <Myrtti> the site is just damn laggy
[08:15] <somerville32> Myrtti, check your pm
[08:15] <jussi01> ardchoille: the request for bt acccess
[08:16] <Myrtti> waiting and waiting
[08:16] <somerville32> @login
[08:16] <somerville32> @whoami
[08:16] <ubotu> I don't recognize you.
[08:16] <ardchoille> jussi01: Ah, great. I was waiting for seveas to add me but he isn't here.
[08:16] <somerville32> :(
[08:16] <ardchoille> jussi01: Can you teach me how to use it?
[08:16] <Myrtti> @login
[08:16] <ubotu> OK
[08:17] <Myrtti> whoa!
[08:17] <jussi01> ardchoille: hehe... better you ask someone else ;)
[08:17] <jussi01> @login
[08:17] <ardchoille> @login
[08:17] <no0tic> anyone could tell me how to add to our local supybot this fantastic bantracker plugin? :)
[08:18] <ardchoille> jussi01: Thank you muchly :)
[08:18] <Gary> no0tic, the bantracker is a custom written thingy which ties into a website
[08:19] <Gary> so I think it only works with ubuntu channels, but maybe seveas released the source?
[08:19] <no0tic> Gary, I'm an #ubuntu-it op, so I'll need it to track ban on #ubuntu-it with our ubot-it :)
[08:20] <no0tic> Gary, I'll ping seveas on that
[08:20] <Gary> could you get ubotu into -it?
[08:21] <somerville32> !search bot
[08:21] <ubotu> Found: etiquette-#ubuntu-offtopic, kernel, 11:57] <ubotu> strigi, ubotu, logs, etiquette, bot, meetings, thunderbird, ops-#kubuntu
[08:21] <no0tic> Gary, we used another supybot because our foctoids are all in italian, just to not mess with yours
[08:21] <somerville32> What is "11:57] <ubotu> strigi"?
[08:21] <no0tic> *factoids
[08:21] <somerville32> !"11:57] <ubotu> strigi"
[08:22] <jussi01> could someone test if I need to whack our company's ISP? (check if www.navicron.com works...)
[08:22] <jussi01> !11:57] <ubotu> strigi
[08:22] <Gary> jussi01, forwards to navicron.fi and times out
[08:22] <jussi01> Gary: ok, thanks. Ill go kick someone
[08:29] <Myrtti> hmmm
[08:32] <jussi01> Myrtti: ??
[08:33] <Myrtti> nothing
[08:33] <jussi01> :)
[08:33] <Myrtti> I hate having old bans around that are assigned to dynamic hostnames
[08:33] <Myrtti> but I'm not sure if it's wise to remove them either
[08:34] <jussi01> ahhh, yeah...
[08:34] <jussi01> hmmm, I am about to embarass myself im sure, but....
[08:34] <jussi01> why is unregged here: [10:33] [jussi01(+ei)] [7:freenode/#ubuntu(+JLcfntz 2,5 #ubuntu-unregged)] [Act: 2,8,11,12,13]
[08:35] <Gary> Myrtti, I leave them for a month, then remove
[08:37] <ardchoille> jussi01: same thing in #kubuntu for me
[08:38] <no0tic> jussi01, I advice you adv_windowslist.pl
[08:38] <jussi01> no0tic: I am ;)
[08:38] <Myrtti> well, that about does it.
[08:38] <no0tic> ;)
[08:38] <jussi01> no0tic: I still have that bar tho
[08:38] <Myrtti> removed some really old bans
[08:51]  * elkbuntu peers into -offtopic and notices it is like a borderline-troll party
[08:51] <somerville32> Quick. Shut the door before they get out :P
[08:51]  * somerville32 groans - he just stubbed his toe on his computer
[08:53] <kitofhawaii> y'ouch
[08:57] <ardchoille> somerville32: hahaha
[09:08] <Myrtti> heads are going to roll
[09:08] <Tm_T> not mine
[09:09] <Tm_T> but now I'm seriously away ->>
[09:14] <somerville32> Myrtti, I hope you're not really as stressed as you sound
[09:16] <no0tic> Myrtti, I was hoping to see some rolling heads...
[09:17] <Myrtti> no0tic: I dislike kicking and removing
[09:18] <no0tic> sometimes it's enough becoming @
[09:18]  * somerville32 shrugs
[09:18] <Myrtti> yup
[09:18] <no0tic> to stop troll-parties
[09:18] <somerville32> It is just -offtopic anyhow
[09:18] <somerville32> :]
[09:18] <no0tic> :)
[09:18] <Myrtti> and a start a total nonsense discussion instead
[09:19] <somerville32> I love the word nonsensical :)
[09:19] <Myrtti> somerville32: I dislike sexist and sex related discussions there
[09:19] <somerville32> Myrtti, me too
[09:19] <Myrtti> as on any #ubuntu- channel
[09:19] <TheSheep> thre shuld be a /nuke command ;)
[09:19] <Myrtti> so had to do something
[09:19]  * somerville32 just had heart palpitations
[09:26] <no0tic> why does latest kernel update overwrite the old one? it can lead to big problems...
[09:27] <Myrtti> it does?
[09:27] <Myrtti> o_____0
[09:27] <no0tic> Myrtti, yes, it terribly does
[09:27] <no0tic> Myrtti, same build version
[09:29] <mc44> because it's not got an ABI bump
[09:30] <mc44> which means lots of peoples binary drivers won't break, which is nice.
[09:31] <no0tic> mc44, I found an user with audio driver broke
[09:33] <no0tic> mc44, you're right, anyway. vmware just works, I didn't need to recompile kernel drivers for it
[10:50] <Myrtti> erhmh
[10:51] <Myrtti> I just got a strange message
[10:51] <elkbuntu> from who about what?
[10:51] <Myrtti> [12:45] <BaBY`17`> Hadi Bekliyorum msn de Ekle ||| cansu_senem18@hot
[10:51] <elkbuntu> spam, nice
[10:57]  * jussi01 is loving having a dedicated irc server :)
[10:57] <jussi01> screen ftw!!
[10:58] <Myrtti> /me loves her myrtti.fi virtual server and domain <3
[10:59] <Gary> Myrtti, just ignore it, they are being dealt with
[10:59] <Myrtti> Gary: I am
[10:59] <Gary> ummm bacon sarnie was nice
[11:13] <jussi01> hmmm, whats the plural of criteria ??
[11:14] <Myrtti> there is none I think
[11:14] <Myrtti> it's substance noun
[11:14] <Myrtti> :-P
[11:14] <jussi01> bleh
[11:14] <Myrtti> check on some native
[11:14] <Myrtti> :-P
[11:14] <jussi01> Myrtti: I am a native...
[11:14] <jussi01> :P
[11:14] <Myrtti> lolz
[11:14] <Myrtti> this is the first :-D
[11:14] <Myrtti> OMG
[11:14] <Myrtti> hahaha
[11:14] <Myrtti> ROFL
[11:15] <Myrtti> But I think it's a substance noun like water or news
[11:16] <Myrtti> criteria sounds like a plural to me already
[11:16] <Gary> spam from <LxRooT> in #ubuntu
[11:16] <Myrtti> derivate from criterium or like in latin I think
[11:16] <mc44> criteria is the plural. Criterion is the singular
[11:17] <jussi01> hehehehe
[11:17] <jussi01> and this is supposed to be part of my job... :P
[11:17] <jussi01> sigh
[11:17] <jussi01> we need a factoid for sigh
[11:17] <jussi01> !sigh
[11:17] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sigh - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[11:18] <Myrtti> jussi01: I don't know should I be proud for myself or... :-P
[11:19] <jussi01> Myrtti: I have an excuse... Im australian - we speak funny there - or so Ive been told
[11:19] <jussi01> :D
[11:21] <jussi01> and why is it that finns always use only about half of the "the and is a" that are required? :P
[11:21] <Myrtti> jussi01: examples, plz
[11:23] <Myrtti> bots incoming
[11:23] <ubotu> FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join)
[11:24] <ikonia> looks like someone just did a router-style attack
[11:24] <jussi01> Myrtti: whats wrong with this sentence? For these reasons GTK+ was selected to be base of our software.
[11:25] <elkbuntu> jussi01, it's lacking context for one
[11:25] <Myrtti> to be the
[11:25] <Mez> well I had fun getting to work today
[11:25] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/archives/103
[11:26] <Myrtti> did I pass the test?
[11:26] <jussi01> Myrtti: jeps :D
[11:27] <Myrtti> maybe the Finns in question haven't been infused with the English language as much as I've been
[11:27] <jussi01> Myrtti: yeah, irc'll do that to you :P
[11:28] <Myrtti> and sister living in the US for 12 years and telly
[11:28] <Gary> is shizuo worthy of a /remove for bot abuse?
[11:29] <Gary> ahh, nm
[11:29] <ubotu> Juhaz called the ops in #ubuntu (atamer privspam)
[11:29] <Myrtti> jussi01: I'd hardly call monitoring leet kids and idiots in IRC infusion
[11:29] <Myrtti> :-P
[11:29] <ikonia> Hmmm ubotu is lagging in here
[11:29] <ikonia> doesn't appear to note someone has called the ops
[11:36] <jussi01>   ikonia ???
[11:37] <jussi01> [13:28] < ubotu> Juhaz called the ops in #ubuntu (atamer privspam)
[11:39] <jussi01> good morning PriceChild
[11:40] <PriceChild> Morning :)
[11:42] <jussi01> PriceChild: all yours... sigh...
[11:43] <PriceChild> jussi01, answer him 8-)
[11:44] <jussi01> PriceChild: I dont wanna say anything now... I might make him sad... :P
[11:44] <PriceChild> :)
[12:15] <jussi01> Myrtti: could you grab me that union page for marketing people again? I seem to have lost it :(
[12:16] <elkbuntu> bwahaha, email subject of an email that just hit my inbox: "**SPAM**  Now all best Medical Directory, anesthesiology,	23k Hospitals, 17k physicians email"
[12:17] <elkbuntu> i think this is the first spam i've noticed that even advertises that it is spam
[12:17] <jussi01> heeheh
[12:21] <Myrtti> you've got a spam filter somewhere
[12:21] <Myrtti> jussi01: http://tradenomi.fi/direct.aspx?area=page&prm1=52
[12:24]  * jussi01 hugs Myrtti THANKS!!!!
[12:24] <jussi01> "bookmarked" :D
[12:24] <Myrtti> jussi01: bookmark it ;-)
[12:24] <jussi01> lol
[12:40] <jussi01> hmmm, how do you see who has ops in a certain channel?
[12:41] <Pici> /msg chanserv access #channel list
[12:41] <Pici> Of course, you'll need to know what access number means what, but its a good start
[12:44] <PriceChild> /msg chanserv level #channel list
[12:44] <PriceChild> to sort that out
[12:46] <Pici> Ah, /me looks
[12:47] <jussi01> Pici: + PriceChild thanks :D
[12:48] <jussi01> hmmm, ubotu doesnt like me today
[12:48] <jussi01> anyway, can someone add this ops factoid?
[12:48] <jussi01>   - !ops-#ubuntustudio is <reply>Help! jussi01, joejaxx, luisbg, tsmithe or _MMA_
[12:49] <PriceChild> !ops-#ubuntustudio is <reply>Help! jussi01, joejaxx, luisbg, tsmithe or _MMA_
[12:49] <ubotu> I'll remember that, PriceChild
[12:49] <jussi01> thanks PriceChild
[12:49] <Pici> His name underlines on my client.
[12:49] <jussi01> Pici: whose?
[12:50] <Pici> _MMA_
[12:50] <jussi01> Pici: mine also
[12:55] <Myrtti> irssi <3
[13:00] <jussi01> hmmm, I think we can take !website away now...
[13:03] <Pici> !website
[13:03] <ubotu> Yes, the www.ubuntu.com web site will be changing throughout the day as the webmasters prepare it for Gutsy release.  This is NOT in any way an indication that the release has happened.  See also !f5
[13:04] <jussi01> and: ubuntu-restricted-extrasis <reply> ubuntu restricted extras
[13:04] <jussi01> !ubuntu-restricted-extrasis <reply> ubuntu restricted extras
[13:05] <Pici> !no ubuntu-restricted-extras is <alias> restricted
[13:05] <ubotu> I'll remember that Pici
[13:07] <jussi01> hmmm, there are many out dated factoids... maybe we should have a "factoid day" and clean them up sometime
[13:15] <jussi01> hehe, I love all of the ops factoids :P
[13:15] <jussi01> !pici
[13:15] <ubotu> pici is stuck in a factoid factory! Help!
[13:15] <Pici> :D
[13:17] <Myrtti> /me feels vain
[13:19] <jussi01> !myrtti
[13:19] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about myrtti - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:19] <jussi01> Myrtti: you need to have one!
[13:34] <PriceChild> !forget website
[13:34] <ubotu> I'll forget that, PriceChild
[13:34] <PriceChild> !f5
[13:34] <ubotu> Remember that every time you hit refresh, Canonical is wasting money, bandwidth, and CPU time serving your request instead of doing useful things like uploading the image or paying for ShipIt disks.  Please do so sparingly.
[13:39] <PriceChild> Hi NeT_DeMoN_, how can I help?
[13:40] <NeT_DeMoN_> is there a way i can stick ubotu in a channel i created?
[13:40] <PriceChild> What channel is it?
[13:40] <NeT_DeMoN_> ##NeT_DeMoN
[13:40] <NeT_DeMoN_> its registered
[13:40] <PriceChild> Ok so its not any sort of Ubuntu channel.
[13:41] <PriceChild> ubotu has limited resources and we have to be careful how much we tax it sorry.
[13:41] <NeT_DeMoN_> nope, its a private channel, so i guess thats a no then?
[13:41] <PriceChild> You're welcome to get the source yourself and use that for whatever purposes.
[13:41] <NeT_DeMoN_> ok, thanks any ways
[13:41] <NeT_DeMoN_> ok
[13:42] <NeT_DeMoN_> i was just wandering for information purposes
[13:42] <PriceChild> wols, can I help you?
[13:43] <NeT_DeMoN_> are you all staff?
[13:43] <PriceChild> No
[13:43] <NeT_DeMoN_> oh, ok
[13:43] <PriceChild> Anyone with voice is an operator somewhere in ubuntu.
[13:44] <PriceChild> A few without voice are also.
[13:44] <NeT_DeMoN_> oh, ok
[13:44] <NeT_DeMoN_> is that what the green block is for?
[13:44] <PriceChild> probably, on my client, voiced people have yellow circles
[13:45] <Pici> They get plusses on mine
[13:45] <jussi01> and mine has little +'s
[13:45] <jussi01> heh
[13:45] <NeT_DeMoN_> i use konversation
[13:45] <Hobbsee> NeT_DeMoN_: shift+f1, and click on the list of names
[13:46] <NeT_DeMoN_> Hobbsee: ah, ok, thanks
[13:49] <NeT_DeMoN_> well, i have no more questions so i guess i'll leave
[13:49] <NeT_DeMoN_> thanks for yalls help :)
[13:49] <PriceChild> Have fun.
[13:49] <NeT_DeMoN_> you too :)
[13:51] <jussi01> could someone please explain to me what auto_bleh.pl commands /aq /arn /amb and /at do?
[13:51] <Pici> PriceChild: I think wols is still in here from our discussion on swap files yesterday.
[13:52] <PriceChild> jussi01, remove, remove and name ban, something, 10 minute ban
[13:53] <Myrtti> mute ban
[13:54] <Myrtti> I guess
[13:54] <Myrtti> *shrug*
[13:54] <PriceChild> thought that was /am
[13:54]  * PriceChild finds the source
[13:56] <PriceChild> jussi01, arn is actually remove with a notice to them
[13:56] <jussi01> ok
[13:57] <Hobbsee> does someone feel like doing some hacking on ubotu?
[13:57] <PriceChild> i think amb is ban with a message, not sure
[13:57] <jussi01> ok
[13:57] <jussi01> 'Provides /ak /aq /ab /abr /abrn /arn /amb /amr /at'
[13:57] <PriceChild> jussi01, test it on me somewhere
[13:57] <jussi01> PriceChild: please join #dib5sn
[13:58] <jussi01> hmmm
[13:58] <PriceChild> hmm :/
[14:00] <jussi01> PriceChild: can you join again?
[14:01] <PriceChild> no?
[14:02] <jussi01> hmmm
[14:03] <jussi01> ok, thats just weird
[14:04] <jussi01> ahh, now I think I fixed it...
[14:22] <NeT_DeMoN_> im sorry to bother you all again but i have a question
[14:22] <jussi01> NeT_DeMoN_: go ahead?
[14:23] <NeT_DeMoN_> i left my channel, still logged in but im not the operator anymore, is there a way i can become the ower again?
[14:23] <LjL> NeT_DeMoN_: that would be a question for #freenode - but anyway, did you register the channel?
[14:23] <PriceChild> Is it registered? (This is more of a #freenode question, this channel deals with ubuntu irc disputes)
[14:24] <NeT_DeMoN_> yes it is
[14:24] <NeT_DeMoN_> ok, i will go there the
[14:24] <NeT_DeMoN_> n
[14:24] <LjL> then what's the problem? ask chanserv to op you
[14:24] <NeT_DeMoN_> ok
[14:24] <NeT_DeMoN_> thanks
[14:24] <jussi01> someone please keep an eye on #k-offtopic - kroatia
[14:32] <ikonia> jussi01: he's pain a pain in #ubuntu before
[14:33] <jussi01> ikonia: ok... I just redirected him from #kubuntu... sigh
[14:33] <jussi01> he was mildly talking piracy
[14:34] <ikonia> jussi01: he normally pushes the line in general on any topic
[14:34] <ikonia> not seen him in #ubuntu for a while
[14:34] <jussi01> hmmm, ok
[14:35] <jussi01> is there a command from here to add something to hilights? or do i need to do it manually (for irssi)
[14:36] <ikonia> not sure with irssi
[14:36] <ikonia>  "/?" doesn't list anything
[14:36] <jussi01> hmmm, that gives me unknown command...
[14:37] <ikonia> oops
[14:37] <ikonia> it's /help
[14:37] <ikonia> silly irssi
[14:39] <jussi01> heheehehe... its /hilight
[14:39] <jussi01> :PP
[14:44] <ikonia> ooh thats handy
[14:44] <ikonia> thanks
[14:46] <Pici> hehe, a pain in the ubuntu.
[14:49] <ikonia> Pici: that's not leet
[14:49] <ikonia> it ubun2
[14:49] <ikonia> ....apprantly.
[14:50]  * ikonia is not down with the l33t crews
[14:50] <jussi01> !1337 | ikonia
[14:50] <ubotu> ikonia: 1337 i5 nigh-inc0mpr3h3n5ib13 70 u5 n00bs, 4nd n0b0dy c4r35 if UR 4 1337 h4x0r. Giv3 i7 4 r357.
[14:50] <jussi01> :P
[14:50] <ikonia> genius
[14:50] <ikonia> one of the best factoids I've seen
[14:50] <jussi01> hehe
[17:40] <PriceChild> Yay the card that I sent my grandma for her birthday just arrived.
[17:40] <TheSheep> nic?
[17:40] <PriceChild> The card I sent from 3 1/2 hours drive away.... first week in December.
[17:49] <jussi01> PriceChild: LOL... it takes that long?
[17:50] <jdong> PriceChild: lol so your post service is no better than ours :)
[17:51] <nalioth> jdong: it's christmas time
[17:51] <jdong> PriceChild: how many US Postal Service employees does it take to screw in a light bulb? 3. 1 to put it in a box, 1 to toss it into the warehouse, and 1 to open a query as to why it has not been screwed in.
[17:51] <jussi01> nalioth: so, its still on time here :P
[18:04] <TheSheep> silly artifical bottleneck, come to think of it, they could spread it aover several months to make it more manageable
[18:04] <TheSheep> like with birthdays
[18:05] <jdong> yeah likewise, I don't mind getting presents on ANY day of the year :)
[18:07] <jdong> ugh the air is so dry in here
[18:07]  * nalioth sends jdong an alien egg to moisten things up....
[18:07] <jdong> :D
[18:09]  * PriceChild thinks it best not to ask where nalioth got that from
[18:10] <PriceChild> Hey Ariel_Eran, how can I  help?
[18:10] <nalioth> he is here to discuss irseeks presence in #ubuntu
[18:11] <Ariel_Eran> Hi PriceChild, we would like to talk to you and the other ops here about logging the #ubuntu channels
[18:11] <nalioth> !logs
[18:11] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ - See also « /msg ubotu ircstats »
[18:11] <nalioth> Ariel_Eran: can you not parse this site?
[18:12] <Ariel_Eran> we can if you prefer that we do that, however, we prefer, if possible, to have a common infrastructure to log channels. We've spoken to Christel and she's about to announce Freenode's support for our service
[18:12] <jussi01> hmmm, kroatia has just showed up in #k-ot if someone wants to keep an eye o him
[18:12] <Ariel_Eran> (following adjustments to our service)
[18:13] <nalioth> Ariel_Eran: for the most part, #ubuntu* channels are logged already.  we have our own log bot that publishes them.
[18:14] <PriceChild> several even
[18:14] <PriceChild> ubuntulogbot, then the locobots
[18:15] <nalioth> i suspect irseek would better utilize its resources on channels that do not have public logging (with those channels operators in agreement, of course)
[18:15] <Ariel_Eran> our service will hopefully log several other important channels and we'd like to have it under one umbrella, rather than have to parse multiple source types (our service allows active browsing of the content)
[18:15] <PriceChild> This is for the irseeks site right? Why do you want to duplicate content?
[18:16] <Ariel_Eran> Yes, this is for IRSeek. We think that using our service, it would be easier to search through/browse the logs...
[18:16] <Ariel_Eran> (our bots will have distinct names, and will be quiet the entire time)
[18:17] <nalioth> asking google "pricechild site:irclogs.ubuntu.com" gets all hits on pricechild in quite a few #ubuntu channels
[18:17] <PriceChild> a pretty obvious place to look if you want ubuntu help.... not the best, but more obvious than irseek
[18:18] <PriceChild> tbh, I'm ridiculously unconvinced about the usefulness of these logs...
[18:18] <Ariel_Eran> This query will result in very long flat text file, but we'd like to have a better approach to browsing/searching the content
[18:19] <PriceChild> If I want an answer... trawling irc logs is painful :/
[18:20] <ardchoille> I know I am new to ops, but may I add my input?
[18:20] <Ariel_Eran> I think that in a sense you are right, and that is why we want to provide a different sort of service where the search/browse experience would be improved (and hopefully further improved down the line) so that it would be useful, rather than painful
[18:20] <PriceChild> ardchoille, of course
[18:20] <ardchoille> Ariel_Eran: Just speaking as a community member, I feel that the Kubuntu/Ubuntu community is doing a great job of this already and in a way that is quite easy for people to use. I have come to trust the Kubuntu/Ubuntu community and I don't even know who IRSeek is.
[18:21] <Myrtti> hmmm
[18:21] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, like the system grepping to extract single conversations amid the chaos??
[18:21] <nalioth> i don't get how your search will be more useful than googling 'enlightenment site:irclogs.ubuntu.com'
[18:21] <nalioth> ardchoille: ask Uncle Google about irseek
[18:21] <Myrtti> hmmm
[18:22] <Myrtti> irseek could work as a "fallback"
[18:22] <Ariel_Eran> PriceChild: had you had a chance to use our service before it was taken down?
[18:22] <Myrtti> I'm not saying I'm approving
[18:22] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, no
[18:23] <Myrtti> but if irseek picks up and is used by people, they're bound to ask why we're not logged there too
[18:23] <Ariel_Eran> among other things, it allows easy highlighting/removing messages from a certain nick in order to allow easy browsing of conversations
[18:23] <PriceChild> I'm of no opinion either way yet...
[18:23] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, any eta to its return?
[18:24] <Ariel_Eran> hopefully, Christel will announce her support in the upcoming days and we will bring it back shortly after
[18:24] <Ariel_Eran> part of the problem is that we need to bootstrap the service and we need important channels like the #ubuntu family
[18:25] <Ariel_Eran> once we have a few important channels logged, it would be easier to understand the usefulness of the service that we're hoping to provide
[18:25] <nalioth> Ariel_Eran: there is no reason that we cannot wait a month or two after you restart the service.  that will give folks here a chance to see how it works and if it would benefit all concerned
[18:25] <PriceChild> How could irseek logging us be bad for Ubuntu?
[18:26] <PriceChild> So far I've only considered it to be near useless.
[18:26] <ardchoille> Ariel_Eran: Will your bots be able to distinguish between private and public conversation in channels?
[18:26] <PriceChild> ardchoille, pardon?
[18:26] <nalioth> there are other large channels to be logged, on many networks
[18:26] <Ariel_Eran> nalioth: that's exactly the bootstrap issue that we're referring to, we need to be able to log important channels so that the service attract further channels
[18:27] <jdong> could anything bad happen from logging just #ubuntu for IRSeeK's bootstrap?
[18:27] <Ariel_Eran> nalioth: true, and the #ubuntu channels are probably few of the most important ones so we're hoping to log those as a first priority by getting your support
[18:27] <ardchoille> PriceChild: I feel that private conversations shouldn't be logged and open to the public. Channels like #kubuntu are fine, but pm, to me anyway, means "somewhat private" and that is taken away when it is logged to a site open to the public.
[18:27] <Jack_Sparrow> Did I read right that hotplug was removed from gutsy?
[18:27] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, Ubuntu definitely doesn't gain anything from you logging. And I think its the same for any other channels. You can't attract us, this is a service purely for the user.
[18:27] <somerville32> Why can't they just parse the existing logs?
[18:27] <PriceChild> ardchoille, you don't understand :)
[18:27] <ardchoille> PriceChild: Ah, ok.
[18:27] <PriceChild> ardchoille, bots are just users... they can't read pms.
[18:28] <PriceChild> ardchoille, not even freenode staff can read pms...... or can they? ;)
[18:28] <PriceChild> They can't.
[18:28] <jdong> I mean, #ubuntu is already logged by us, it's not gonna hurt us in any way if #ubuntu is logged by IRSeek.
[18:28] <PriceChild> But can they really?!</boosh>
[18:28] <jdong> I do think the logbot should be clearly distinguishable though and NOT under a tor connection
[18:28] <Ariel_Eran> somerville32: we can do that too, but it's better from our perspective to have a single source for our content rather than monitor multiple types of sources. It's easier and more reliable.
[18:29] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, do your logs show join/part/mode changes?
[18:29]  * PriceChild still hasn't had a reply from rt about that.
[18:29] <somerville32> Ariel_Eran, Why not just use the logs at irclogs.ubuntu.com - all channels of interested are logged there
[18:29] <Ariel_Eran> jdong: sure, we understand that now. That is part of what we've spoken to Christel about, and we're going to apply that in our new implementation.
[18:29] <jdong> somerville32: that has already been answered
[18:29] <Ariel_Eran> pricechild: nope
[18:29] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, grr :)
[18:29] <jdong> somerville32: they would like one centralized source input for logs and not a million parsers for each project that has a log site
[18:30] <somerville32> jdong, Okay. I didn't understand the scope.
[18:30] <PriceChild> I don't see much benefit to this for "the user" or irseek, but also no bad side effects on Ubuntu.
[18:30] <jdong> I don't have any authority on this issue of course, but as a bystander and member of the community I don't see a major problem with allowing IRSeek to log one #ubuntu channel for now until we understand more about the service
[18:30] <ardchoille> Hmm.. christel seemed to be against irseek in the past. I wonder what made her change her mind.
[18:31]  * PriceChild wonders if LjL or elkbuntu are awake
[18:31] <PriceChild> ardchoille, no permission was asked
[18:31] <ardchoille> Ah
[18:31] <PriceChild> ardchoille, they just appeared, tor'd, and logged.
[18:31] <jdong> ardchoille: the bots came on under generic nicks and tor masks
[18:31] <jdong> ardchoille: it was quite subversive the way it was done
[18:31] <nalioth> ardchoille: read the news that Uncle Google showed you
[18:31] <ardchoille> ok
[18:32] <jdong> PriceChild: as far as end benefits, I think IRSeek might provided a cooler/more interactive log browsing interface than what we currently provide
[18:32] <jdong> PriceChild: at any rate neither of us has seen the service before.... so this is all speculation :)
[18:32] <Ariel_Eran> ardchoille: we've spoken to Christel several times after we had taken the service down and she sees a lot of benefits to the user as long as we follow the rules that we've discussed, such as using easily identifiable bot names, opt-in, etc...
[18:33] <nalioth> jdong: i _have_ seen the service.
[18:33] <ardchoille> Understood
[18:34] <nalioth> Ariel_Eran: i still do not see why you'd want to replicate what is already done.  i think your service and resources might be appreciated more by the smaller or less irc savvy projects
[18:34] <Ariel_Eran> we better understand the concerns at this point and that is also the reason we have decided to take the site so quickly after people responded to it
[18:34] <somerville32> nalioth, I'm getting spammed :(
[18:35] <somerville32> [14:34] <BaBY`25`> Gelll msn yalnýzca sen gel ekle caným ||| melisa_sude28@hot
[18:35] <jdong> nalioth: regardless of whether or not we see value in the service, is there any reason why having #ubuntu logged by someone else is a problem?
[18:35] <PriceChild> gah not again
[18:35] <PriceChild> somerville32, how long was that ago?
[18:35] <somerville32> Just now
[18:35] <somerville32> I got one earlier too
[18:36] <jdong> nalioth: I do, however, see the value in a centralized IRC logging engine... I mean it's like saying Google shouldn't index my site because I have a search engine feature built in to it.
[18:36] <Ariel_Eran> nalioth: we are trying to improve the current search/browse experience by providing additional features, providing a more interactive approach to reading the logs. We think that both IRC and non-IRC users will find these logs much more accessible. We hope that the site will provide a centralized source for many IRC logs
[18:36] <Ariel_Eran> jdong: :)
[18:37] <PriceChild> Eyes on #ubuntu please... they're back, being d-lined. I set a ban on most common username.
[18:38] <PriceChild> nalioth, there are still a few left... with n=sobetch
[18:39] <nixternal> Gelll msn yalnýzca sen gel ekle caným ||| melisa_sude28@hot
[18:39] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, There are 4 "leaders" to ubuntu-irc and currently only two are present. Would it be ok if you came back tomorrow after they, and other ops have had time to weigh in? (Many timezones)
[18:39] <nixternal> anyone know what that says?
[18:40] <Gary> this has been going on since 10am ish, ouch
[18:40] <nixternal> SeKeR^^ is pm'ing that stuff
[18:40] <Ariel_Eran> PriceChild: sure, when would be a good time?
[18:41] <nixternal> thanks whoever klined him
[18:41] <nixternal> hehe
[18:41] <PriceChild> nixternal, the guy is banned so can't disrupt the channel, not sure whether to remove them all or not.
[18:41] <nixternal> he just got klined
[18:41] <nixternal> that is ownage, god I love this country
[18:41] <nixternal> IRC country that is!
[18:41] <PriceChild> Ariel_Eran, whenever is good for you, probably 24 plus a couple of hours from now is good?
[18:42] <Ariel_Eran> Is there any chance they'll be online a few hours from now?
[18:43] <PriceChild> Probably. I think we would appreciate a day at least though to get everyone's thoughts on the matter.
[18:43] <ardchoille> I just got spammed from caIvin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:45] <PriceChild> I think most just left....
[18:45] <Ariel_Eran> PriceChild: Ok, I'll do my best to log in tomorrow night (that is ~24 hours from now)
[18:45] <PriceChild> maybe not with that d-line
[18:45] <PriceChild> Thanks Ariel_Eran.
[18:45] <Ariel_Eran> I must leave now, Thanks for your time.
[18:47] <PriceChild> Right I'm off climbing.
[18:53] <tomaw> 121
[19:22] <LjL> [20:21:39] <SeTam> Baksana Evde Yalnýzým Webcamda ne Gostercem Ekle msn Ye ||| sudenaz_camda_sx@hot
[19:23] <Pici> I dont even know what language that is
[19:24] <nalioth> LjL: timestamp?
[19:24] <tonyyarusso> Turkish?
[19:25] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: we're on 'em
[19:25] <LjL> nalioth: 19:21:39 UTC
[19:26] <Pici> User's host is in turkey... which doesnt necessarily mean anything.
[19:26] <LjL> nalioth: they're not stupid. they target ljl-temp (they did the same yesterday, or the day before, or what it was), but never ljl
[19:27] <nalioth> LjL: i'm seeing that
[19:27] <LjL> possibly they /cs access list and ignore those
[19:27] <LjL> ljl-temp is also identified as ubuntu/member/ljl, so i guess they go by nickname
[19:27] <LjL> and we do have nicknames in our access list
[19:28] <Pici> LjL: I was getting them yesterday... and I'm on the access list
[19:28] <LjL> Pici: *shrug*... might be chance. today ljl-temp got two of them. but the other day it got 4... and ljl got none
[19:31] <crdlb> 14:30 <banu19> Baksana Evde Yalnýzým Webcamda ne Gostercem Ekle msn Ye ||| sudenaz_camda_sx@hot
[19:33] <Pici> You know.. if I wanted to look at their webcamdas, I'm not sure how I'd do that with that address.
[19:38] <nixternal> [   banu19] Baksana Evde Yalnýzým Webcamda ne Gostercem Ekle msn Ye ||| sudenaz_camda_sx@hot
[19:38] <nixternal> lovely, another one
[19:49] <Pici> nixternal: ping
[19:49] <nixternal> yo yo
[19:50] <Pici> Hey, atoponce was just asking about your recent blog post about Kubuntu
[19:50] <nixternal> yes
[19:50] <Pici> Just to clarify, Kubuntu will not be LTS, but Ubuntu will, right?
[19:50] <nixternal> correct
[19:51] <tonyyarusso> wait, what?
[19:51]  * tonyyarusso hits the planet
[19:51] <Pici> tonyyarusso: http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.12.20/kubuntu-804-featuring-kde-4/
[19:52] <atoponce> nixternal: see all the commotion you caused now with your post? :)
[19:52] <tonyyarusso> So Kubuntu has to wait another two years for an LTS?
[19:52] <atoponce> way to go
[19:52] <atoponce> i thought canonical backed kubuntu. i guess not?
[19:53] <nixternal> they never have, but I won't get into that
[19:53] <tonyyarusso> Does that mean that Kubuntu 6.06 users will be completely out of luck?  (As I'm assuming we won't have another LTS before June of '09)
[19:53] <Pici> perhaps we should move this into +1
[19:54] <atoponce> heh. and i just pointed nalioth to here from +1 :)
[19:55] <tonyyarusso> How'd it get to be 2 already....  /me runs out to attempt that awful ordeal commonly known as "Christmas shopping"
[19:56]  * nalioth hands tonyyarusso knee and elbow pads
[19:59] <somerville32> LTS doesn't really make a different for me anyhow. I certainly did use dapper long than I had to :P
[20:00] <somerville32> but you should know that if Ubuntu is LTS, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc. are inherently LTS too
[20:00] <Pici> somerville32: we're in +1 now ;)
[20:00] <somerville32> #ubuntu+1 ?
[20:00] <tonyyarusso> ya
[20:00] <somerville32> *didn't
[20:02] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: You seem to actually be happy about this.  Care to /j #ubuntu+1 and explain why this is a good thing?
[20:02] <Pici> @now
[20:02] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: December 20 2007, 20:02:41 - Next meeting: MOTU meeting in 15 hours 57 minutes
[20:10] <Jack_Sparrow> tonyyarusso: One year I dressed like a hobo.. people cleared the isles trying to get away from me...  Just a ratty old jacket and some dirt on my sneekers...
[20:11] <tonyyarusso> lol, that's a great idea
[20:12] <Jack_Sparrow> Someone called security..  I flashed em my gold card and ID.. they laughed and left me alone
[20:12] <Jack_Sparrow> It was the best $5 I ever spent in a thrift store.. and sorry for the ot......
[20:29] <Jack_Sparrow> [12:27] <elektronik123> ROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTERROUTER
[20:29] <jdong> looks like Steve Ballmer's Cisco job application.
[20:29] <Jack_Sparrow> thanks
[21:06] <jussi01> !botabuse
[21:06] <ubotu> Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Don't use commands in the public channels if you don't know if they really exist. Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids.
[21:06] <jussi01> do we really need the last part of that?
[21:07] <jussi01> I mean really, only ops have access to add factoids...
[21:07] <LjL> jussi01: not really, people can still "add" them and they get forwarded to here
[21:07] <LjL> and we get quite a few garbage spit out
[21:07] <jussi01> LjL: perhaps we need to reword it or something?
[21:08] <jussi01> LjL: yeah, I cant remember how many times I have seen !foo is bar
[21:08] <jussi01> sigh
[21:08] <LjL> jussi01, even the wiki page i think still says you can "add" factoids. it's true from the user's point of view - it's just a moderated system of adding
[21:08] <jussi01> heh
[21:09] <jussi01> I suppose.
[21:18] <fukizzat> #list
[21:20] <jussi01> fukizzat: can we help you?
[21:20] <LjL> jussi01: by telling him how to change an ident
[21:21] <jussi01> LjL: heh..
[21:21] <Myrtti> fukizzat: change your ident
[21:21] <Myrtti> ;-D
[21:22] <Gary> or change your ident or else :p
[21:23] <Myrtti> or I'll...
[21:23] <Myrtti> poke you with a pink fluffy pen!
[21:23] <mneptok> tinkle in your Pepsi!
[21:23] <Gary> oww, can I have that Myrtti ?
[21:24] <Myrtti> MINE! NOT YOURS!
[21:24] <Myrtti> *hrmp*
[21:25] <mneptok> fukizzat: is there something you wanted?
[21:30] <LjL> now
[21:30] <LjL> now *this* is weird
[21:30] <LjL> i'm seeing...


[00:02] <aguitel> penguin42, me too in some new machine ,but in old ....this is the question
[00:03] <penguin42> aguitel: Yeh, xubuntu is probably a good bet - xfce is quite nice
[00:05] <aguitel> yes
[00:06] <FernandoMiguel> Happy New Year !!!
[00:07] <aguitel> feliz 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[00:08] <yofel> happy new year ;)
[02:56] <FernandoMiguel> nite ! ill go now enjoying my 1st 2012 sleep
[04:07] <Fudge> hi all
[11:20] <atvr> i need a link for ubuntu 12.04 beta, i need to make some test on my machine beceaus 11.10 dosnt work
[11:27] <oCean> atvr: not beta, still apha 1 at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/precise/alpha-1/
[11:30] <micahg> atvr: it won't exist until March
[12:08] <aguitel> why in 10.04 glxgears run 600 FPS and in 12.04 are 60 FPS ?
[12:10] <Stanley00> aguitel: did you install video driver, and/or use the same resolution when run glxgears?
[12:11] <aguitel> Stanley00, i have intel video card
[12:12] <aguitel> Stanley00, no drivers need and same resolution
[12:12] <aguitel> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
[12:12] <Stanley00> aguitel: I mean the resolution of the gear?
[12:13] <aguitel> Stanley00, how control this ?
[12:14] <Stanley00> aguitel: with "-geometry" parameter, I think
[12:14] <aguitel> monitor resolution?
[14:49] <scotty^> Where can I download the Precise daily builds?
[14:54] <Ampelbein> scotty^:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[14:54] <scotty^> Thanks
[14:55] <Ampelbein> if you need the live cd, s/daily/daily-live/
[14:59] <scotty^> Ah yes, that would be better.
[15:00] <scotty^> What's the full URI for that one?
[15:02] <Ampelbein> scotty^: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[15:04] <scotty^> Awesome, thanks.
[16:39] <ultrav1olet> where can I download development packages (deb) for 12.04?
[16:39] <ultrav1olet> I just need a link, nothing else
[16:40] <ultrav1olet> I mean just deb packages
[16:42] <penguin42> ultrav1olet: you can get it from your normal mirror
[16:43] <penguin42> ultrav1olet: The easiest way is to go to packages.ubuntu.com, use the package search and select precise
[16:43] <ultrav1olet> my mirror has ubuntu ubuntu-cdimage and ubuntu-releases directories and none of them have the package I'm interested in
[16:44] <ultrav1olet> ubuntu/pool/universe/a has it, but a very outdated version
[16:46] <Ampelbein> ultrav1olet: What mirror is that?
[16:46] <ultrav1olet> penguin42: damn http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=aircrack-ng&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
[16:46] <yofel> ultrav1olet: *which* deb? from an archive perspective the devel release is a release like any other
[16:46] <ultrav1olet> no package for Precise Pangolin
[16:46] <penguin42> ah, look like it's been removed from pp
[16:46] <ultrav1olet> WTF??
[16:46]  * yofel looks up why
[16:46] <jtaylor> unmaintained and buggy is my guess :)
[16:47] <ultrav1olet> I don't want to build it from the sources :(
[16:47] <ultrav1olet> v1.1 is maintained and well-built :)
[16:47] <yofel> yeah, by pitti:
[16:47] <yofel> (From Debian) RoQA; unmaintained, RC-buggy, NPOS; Debian bug #642934
[16:48] <yofel> ultrav1olet: you can upload the oneiric package to a PPA then
[16:48] <ultrav1olet> Please remove aircrack-ng. It has unresolved license problems, is
[16:48] <ultrav1olet> not part of stable and genereally unmaintained. Better alternatives
[16:48] <ultrav1olet> exist.
[16:49] <ultrav1olet> alternatives? Fsck me :)
[16:49] <keffie_jayx> Could anyone help me with a lsb_release error on 12.04?
[16:49] <keffie_jayx> bash: /usr/bin/lsb_release: /usr/bin/python3: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
[16:49] <keffie_jayx> python3 is not installed maybe?
[16:49] <jtaylor> probably
[16:49] <jtaylor> since when is python3 part of lsb :O
[16:51] <jtaylor> ah the script itself is py3
[16:51] <jtaylor> probably due to the py2 removal from the cd
[16:51] <keffie_jayx> well python3 is installed for obvious reasons
[16:52] <penguin42> keffie_jayx: Can you run /usr/bin/python3 ?
[16:52] <keffie_jayx> yep... python3.2
[16:52] <penguin42> yofel: You'd hope that a bug that said 'there are better alternatives' would list them
[16:53] <yofel> penguin42: yeah, I just read the whole report, but nothing to be found there :/
[16:53] <keffie_jayx> penguin42: 3.2, but I guess the script references python3
[16:53] <yofel> hm, lsb_release works fine here
[16:54] <penguin42> keffie_jayx: but you actually have the file /usr/bin/python3   ?
[16:55] <keffie_jayx> penguin42: no.
[16:56] <keffie_jayx> penguin42: is that some sort of ln?
[16:56] <yofel> it's part of python3-minimal
[16:56] <penguin42> keffie_jayx: Yes it is a symlink
[16:57] <keffie_jayx> somehow it was not created
[16:58] <jtaylor> reinstall python3-minimal
[16:58] <keffie_jayx> ok
[16:58] <keffie_jayx> thanks
[17:00] <keffie_jayx> jtaylor penguin42 yofel thanks, works now. happy new year to you
[17:00] <penguin42> HNY keffie_jayx
[17:00] <yofel> np, you too
[17:01]  * penguin42 wonders how that broke
[19:49]  * BluesKaj trusts that the latest upgrades won't break his setup :|
[19:50]  * FernandoMiguel checks for updates
[19:51] <BluesKaj> <--- hasn't updated in a while
[19:52] <penguin42> seems ok here
[19:52] <FernandoMiguel>   firefox firefox-globalmenu firefox-gnome-support firefox-locale-en firefox-locale-pt libvlc5 vlc vlc-nox vlc-plugin-notify vlc-plugin-pulse
[19:52] <FernandoMiguel> meh
[19:54] <BluesKaj> happy New Year gentlemen !
[19:54] <penguin42> HNY BluesKaj
[19:58] <FernandoMiguel> enjoy all 366 of it
[19:59] <BluesKaj> leap yr eh ?
[20:07] <guntbert> how can I (in CLI) find out which of my packages will be the"1 not upgraded" by aptitude safe-upgrade?
[20:08] <jtaylor> apt-get dist-upgrade, the package thats listed under kept back
[20:09] <jtaylor> no only upgrade
[20:10] <jtaylor> not dist upgradeobviously :)
[20:10] <guntbert> jtaylor: good idea, I forgot that upgrade still asks "want to continue?"
[20:19] <Ampelbein> And you probably shouldn't use aptitude anymore, it has troubles with multiarch IIRC.
[20:21] <robin0800> jtaylor: use the update manager that will show and also propt to do a partial install don't do this of course
[20:21] <BluesKaj> yeah, I used to like aptitude alot but , apt-get has caught up and passed it in terms of resolving dependencies.
[20:21] <FernandoMiguel> meh
[20:21] <FernandoMiguel> I love aptitude too mcuh
[20:21] <FernandoMiguel> *much
[20:27] <guntbert> Ampelbein: any references to support your statement?
[20:28] <Ampelbein> Gunni: sure, bug 831768
[20:28] <Ampelbein> sorry, guntbert ^^
[20:30] <guntbert> Ampelbein: thx for the heads up
[20:32] <guntbert> follow up question: how can I find out why software-center is not upgraded to 5.1.4 for almost a week now?
[20:32] <jtaylor> what does dist-upgrade say?
[20:34] <guntbert> jtaylor: I have to try...
[20:36] <guntbert> jtaylor: it would remove python-gobject-cairo and install python-gi-cairo
[20:37] <jtaylor> probably makes sense
[20:38] <jtaylor> see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/<IP_ADDRESS>
[20:39] <bjsnider> also the developers are on holiday
[20:49] <guntbert> bjsnider: of course - there is nothing urgent I was only curious
[20:51] <guntbert> jtaylor: the dist-upgrade went ok - with a somewhat crazy report:  dpkg: python-gobject-cairo: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested: software-center depends on python-gobject-cairo. (I don't need futher help...)
[23:02] <Fudge> hi all
[23:05] <jacobw> hi Fudge
[23:05] <Fudge> jacobw  howdy
[23:06] <Fudge> figured out that the floppy in fstab and a non existent swap since i removed it was  causing major delays in boot time
[23:34] <penguin42> Fudge: Ah I reckon Ubuntu is rarely tested with floppies these days
[23:35] <Resistance> heh
[23:35] <Resistance> i dont think they even still produce floopy drives...
[23:36] <Resistance> do they?
[23:37] <penguin42> I suspect they do - for replacements in machines built ages ago
[23:38] <Daekdroom> Not only for replacements but for those who stored a huge amount of data in floppies.
[23:38] <Daekdroom> Same way it happens with VHS.
[23:44] <Fudge> penguin42  its that the header is not disabled in the bios i think
[23:44] <Fudge> it was also causing gparted to take for ever to scan for partitions
[23:46] <Fudge> still is actually, not sure how to disable it at os level
[23:48] <robin0800> Fudge: comment it out in fstab and blacklist the floppy in modprobe.d
[23:49] <Fudge> ah i hadnt blacklisted it
[23:51] <robin0800> Fudge: update initramfs and grub the you can delete the floppy in /media
[23:51] <Fudge> robin0800  in blacklist.conf? what would the entry be blacklist fd0?
[23:52] <robin0800> Fudge: blacklist floppy
[23:52] <Fudge> too easy
[23:55] <Fudge> yay thats much better
[23:56] <penguin42> Fudge: I'm curious; do you purely use a screen reader - do you use anything else like readers hung off serial etc?
[23:57] <Fudge> penguin42  yes just rely on speech, i do have  a dectalk express but i am missing the pty cable which is similar to rj45 - serial
[23:57] <Fudge> i can see screens pop up but no chance to read any content
[23:57] <penguin42> Fudge: OK, reason I ask is that if you have serial you should be able to get grub and kernel messages to go to it (and on some bioses the bios)
[23:58] <Fudge> oh grub as well? wasn't aware of that
[23:58] <penguin42> Fudge: Yeh, not done it for a while, but they do it for things like server farms and embedded stuff quite often
[23:59] <Fudge> i get speech-dispatcher to start with pulse so i get most of the bootup messages through soft synth
[23:59] <Fudge> there is always something simple that can throw a spanner in the works though like at bios level
[23:59] <Fudge> some weeks ago i could not boot from cd because after pushing f8 to getmy boot media up i was not aware of an error and having to push f2 to reload defaults


[02:35] <rbasak> cfs: I commented in the bug
[03:58] <cfs> rbasak: I see, I've replied.  I'm not sure what is required other to say that trusty-security/universe/source/Sources is not parsable on trusty anymore because of the bad restriction formulas.
[03:59] <cfs> And that is bad if you depend on being able to do so on trusty.
[03:59] <cfs> Rather parsing the build dependencies *
[05:02] <rbasak> cfs: parseable by *what*? For example, if you showed that rebuilding Trusty on Trusty was no longer possible, that's reasonable.
[05:02] <rbasak> cfs: but if rebuilding works, then normally we need to understand *actual user impact* before considering fixing something in a stable release.
[05:03] <rbasak> If you don't want to explain further, your issue may not get fixed.
[05:03] <rbasak> Though in this case it might well just get fixed the next time a new version needs to be backported for security