[00:09] <dhillon-v10_> starcraftman: hi how are you
[00:09] <starcraft-ntbk> hi there dhillon-v10_
[00:10] <starcraft-ntbk> not bad, working on my backup wiki section, I seem to have singlehandedly volunteered to maintain the HUCs backup docs.
[00:11] <dhillon-v10_> I am working on some of the debian stuff like this one of their to-do list
[00:11] <dhillon-v10_> just a sec.
[00:12] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DriveImaging My current work, part of backupyoursystem. Still rough, have to clean it up.
[00:13] <dhillon-v10_> nice I am making a poll for people who use various parts on documentation and then submitting it so people can improve quality of stuff that's being used the most
[00:14] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: ah, I see, got a draft somewhere?
[00:15] <dhillon-v10_> http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dE9DWlpOQ1hwVlhWTm5Ca2ZFejJBR2c6MA..
[00:15] <dhillon-v10_> the dot part is in the link
[00:15] <dhillon-v10_> .. one
[00:16] <dhillon-v10_> no nevermind
[00:17] <dhillon-v10_> so what do you think
[00:18] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: neat, shouldn't ya have multiple choices though in a poll? Say wiki, man pages, additional docs, built in help? Also, debian eh, poll just for them or also Ubuntu?
[00:19] <dhillon-v10_> well that was in their to-do list do you guys want that too I can make one it take about 3 mins.
[00:22] <dhillon-v10_> so should I make one for Ubuntu and submit it to the docs mailling list
[00:24] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: Oh I wouldn't know, I'm not a senior doc member ya know, might wanna ask mdke the lead or rocket, they kinda run the show and set priorities. We got a to do list, lemme find ya....
[00:25] <dhillon-v10_> do you think it is a good idea to just make one and then email rocket
[00:27] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: I dunno, don't think it was requested at any meeting I attended... I'd ask first. Also, this is one of the to do pages I believe, > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/WikiCleanup
[00:27] <dhillon-v10_> I found it :) I think I can actually do the indicator-applet part
[00:28] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: ah, link so I know which one? We got it kinda spread out.
[00:28] <dhillon-v10_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks
[00:30] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: ah good yes, thats one page. Wiki team has another page for community docs work, but you prefer system docs eh?
[00:31] <dhillon-v10_> I don't know anyone would work
[00:31] <dhillon-v10_> * anything
[00:33] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: It's part of beginners team pages, but ya don't need to join, we overlap with docs team. > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki
[00:34] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: see current happenings. On keep track of work page, we post pages in real need of rewrite, or use tags to narrow it down.
[00:34] <dhillon-v10_> alright, thanks
[00:34] <dhillon-v10_> right now I got some homework so talk to you later
[00:34] <dhillon-v10_> bye
[00:34] <starcraft-ntbk> dhillon-v10_: later
[08:01] <yeager> why do some ubuntu-docs link to library.gnome.org for certain information? that information is already in user-guide-xx
[19:41] <dhillon-v10> j1mc: hi
[19:55] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: hey there, not much atm, relaxing, been doing wiki work.
[19:55] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: my idea had a really bad start
[19:56] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: Ah, no biggie, and I'm on ml, I watch most exchanges, guess I do more talking on IRC so not a huge sender on them.
[19:56] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: yah I didn't think properly about the idea before putting it up
[19:58] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: plenty of other ways to get started, just pick any task on doc or wiki list and get going. Or maybe make a proposal for something based on rockets feedback, some sort of button or simple feedback means like reddit up down. Most people don't wanna fill huge survey when just using wiki for a bit.
[19:58] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: yah I learned that the hard way :) I am writing documentaiton for indicator applet as there wasn't any preset
[19:58] <dhillon-v10> * documentation
[20:00] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: yeah, do most pages by hand, but will learn faster that way. Wiki doesn't have it much better, the templates don't seem to be maintained by any person in particular.
[20:01] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: I have learned a lot from you thanks
[20:01] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: no worries, that's what I'm here for :)
[20:01] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: how should I present ideas without making a fool out of myself
[20:03] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: most people write up a proposal page on a wiki for an idea. Lemme find an example...
[20:03] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/starcraft.man/Sandbox/Secret > My proropsal for beginner team, not part of docs separate.
[20:04] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: that was definitely smart I didn't think of anything like that
[20:04] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: another nice example > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation/Proposal
[20:05] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: putting on a wiki lets other contribute, put a discussion section at end, see source of either for pointers.
[20:05] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: then ya can always point people to link, either on ml or IRC.
[20:05] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: so wiki is the right place to write proposals alright I will do that from now
[20:06] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: ensure the name is descriptive and indicates what section it belongs to, or simply use a sandbox of your homepage like, starcraft.man/Sandbox as url.
[20:06] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: okay, I think that the polling idea wasn't liked by anyone here so I will modify it to something that is more suitable
[20:07] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: can you give me any ideas on that
[20:11] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: read connor's mail, had good ideas, some sort of built in + or - button that users could easily use to rate pages, would be nice. Might be a bit more involved, don't exactly know how it'd be worked. I just use markup, not edit backend.
[20:11] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: I have a coding for that did that for my school website a little time ago would that work
[20:13] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: put it ina  proposal then, though you might want to consult rocket and mdke before posting to ml. The backend I know is MoinMoin, so look it up and see.
[20:15] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: thanks again for your help, you can solve difficult problems easily :)
[20:16] <starcraftman> dhillon-v10: I'm in an engineering program, I'd hope I'm good at problem solving.
[20:16] <dhillon-v10> starcraftman: nice I didn't know that I am in my junior year in high school


[12:04] <zxmpi_> truss might be going for 2 in 1 week. pound at 37 year low https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2022/sep/23/uk-consumer-confidence-economy-recession-mini-budget-tax-cuts-kwasi-kwarteng-business-live?filterKeyEvents=false
[12:09] <penguin42> I wonder what the simplification of IR35 will bring
[12:16] <zxmpi_> if truss is involved a plague of locusts i would suspect :-P
[16:40] <daftykins> wow that second dental practice that i haven't started at yet, they forwarded some emails from their existing IT provider today
[16:41] <daftykins> they tried to make out that Microsoft are suddenly springing a change on them - and they need to pay for them to investigate the impact - but it's been known about for well over 3 years (M365 disabling basic authentication)
[16:41] <daftykins> and the second was Draytek publishing an RCE fix for their routers
[17:26] <penguin42> my dentists made a lot out of me this week taking stuff out
[17:26] <penguin42> but very very good drugs
[17:26] <daftykins> lol, ooh my
[17:27] <daftykins> someone we just added to our pool team showed me the other night he has only 4 left, i suggested he get a third opinion from my client :D
[17:28] <penguin42> I'm not quite that low yet
[17:41] <davef> Draytek, they were a DSL router legend back in the day
[17:47] <daftykins> competitors put them everywhere, they're quite capable from a feature standpoint but i don't get on with their UI design at all
[17:54] <davef> Ui was terrible, but the cli made it easy to deploy and could be scripted


[10:11] <vinod777> Is there any place to add a wishlist for ubuntu interface designs
[10:11] <vinod777> small things like percentage bar position, alignment etc.
[18:11] <mrmcq2u> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1455845
[18:11] <mrmcq2u> any thoughts?


[02:25] <J_P> hi all
[03:01] <J_P> anyone are using with sucess KVM on 7.4 ?
[03:06] <foo> Hm, what is a better scenario for better IO throughput: a server with 6 500GB drives on RAID5, or 6 separate 500GB drives?
[03:06] <foo> We're going to try the former with the dell 2950
[03:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> foo, i'd go with raid
[03:09] <foo> That's what I thought. Someone is telling me he thinks 6 drives without RAID and storing files across all the drives and what not will result in better throughput, but I'm not too sure
[03:09] <foo> But, I'm not too sure
[03:10] <foo> Any input is appreciated, thanks
[03:10] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm asuming scsi, but i dont think 6 drives would be better
[03:11] <foo> oh, SATA, I think
[03:11] <foo> Yeah, pretty sure it's SATA
[03:11] <foo> Yeah, I don't think so either
[03:11] <foo> Thanks
[03:16] <Impaque> foo: the RAID5 is not the speed king
[03:17] <Impaque> foo: RAID1 is ;)
[03:18] <foo> Hm, you're kidding - right?
[03:18] <foo> heh
[03:20] <Impaque> sorry, 0
[03:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> 0=striped?
[03:21] <Impaque> yep
[03:21] <Impaque> 1 is mirrored
[03:21] <foo> Right
[03:21] <foo> 0 does not have redundancy
[03:21] <Impaque> but still, raid5 should be faster than n independent drives
[03:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> 0 is fast to write, but reading theres no speed gain is ther?
[03:22] <foo> We do more reads than writes as well
[03:22] <Impaque> Kamping_Kaiser: hm, the reads should also be alleviated via striping, so reads should be faster as well
[03:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> Impaque, but on mirroring it can read both discs, for any data, with striping it has to read set bits of each disc
[03:28] <Impaque> the data is read in parallel from several discs, less seeking occurs
[03:30] <foo> Impaque: Are you still implying RAID0 is faster than RAID5 ?
[03:31] <foo> Only difference between RAID0 and RAID5 is that RAID5 has data redundancy, IIRC
[03:32] <Impaque> but that also means you use n-1 drives (the capacity of one drive, spread across all of them, is used for parity only. thus, data "spreading" is less than RAID0 with same amount of drives, where even less seeking occurs while reading)
[03:34] <Impaque> RAID0 is used in video/audio production a lot
[03:36] <Impaque> take a look: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storage/display/400gb-raid0510.html
[04:00] <mralphabet> does anybody here have any experience with the arco ide products? specifically, installing the linux module / app?
[04:31] <burner> anyone having problems with mysql being unable to start?
[04:32] <foo> burner: That's pretty vague
[04:32] <foo> burner: Check the error log
[04:32] <foo> burner: /var/lib/mysql/*err IIRC
[04:33] <foo> Impaque: Makes sense, interesting.
[04:52] <burner> foo: disregard, seems i never tried it since feisty became final :)
[04:53] <foo> burner: oh, hehe :D
[05:51] <yashton> question: I'm running Ubuntu server 7.04, on original install, i selected dvorak keyboard layout, thinking i'd want to try it, but now i want a regular qwerty setup. I've tried to install console-data and run dpkg-config on that. Also tried to use loadkeys, but i can't find where ubuntu stores keyboard layouts.
[06:00] <dj-fu> lol
[06:00] <dj-fu> owned by dvorak
[06:09] <nictuku> :-)
[06:10] <nictuku> I don't use 7.04 so I don't know. usually dpkg-reconfigure -plow console-data should work
[06:21] <yashton> why the -plow?
[06:22] <yashton> hokay, so i did that, is it going to need a reboot?
[06:58] <Yakshaver> Anyone have serial consoles working on feisty server i386?  I have grub output, and boot messages, but no login prompt...
[01:08] <coNP> Hey, does anyone know how to fix squirrelmail address books after an edgy -> feisty server upgrade?
[01:08] <coNP> I am told "Address book is corrupted. Required fields are missing."
[01:10] <r00tintheb0x> eeh... eek.
[01:41] <shawarma> coNP: If you fetch the squirrelmail source, there's an UPGRADE file that might be helpful.
[01:41] <shawarma> coNP: I don't use squirrelmail, though, so I don't know if it actually *is* helpful, but it seems like a sensible place to start.
[01:44] <shawarma> coNP: It's interesting though that noone reported this. Neither to us, nor to Debian. Do you have a very specialised setup?
[01:49] <coNP> shawarma: no, actually it is very basic
[01:50] <shawarma> coNP<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:52] <coNP> shawarma: thanks I guess I got the answer
[01:53] <coNP> I converted the address books with a script and was not aware that all fields are mandatory now
[01:53] <coNP> shawarma: thanks for helping
[01:54] <shawarma> np
[05:58] <Yakshaver> Has anyone actually gotten a serial console working on feisty?  I have grub output, and boot messages, but I don't get a login prompt.
[06:02] <flowolf> hi all
[06:15] <Impaque> compared to LTS version, what are the pitfalls of upgrading the non-LTS server versions (like Feisty) ?
[06:15] <Impaque> some general experience hints would be appreciated, because i don't know whether to stick with LTS and it's prolonged EOL, or to grab the bleeding edge
[06:16] <ivoks> upgrading to...?
[06:16] <Impaque> new version which appears after 18mo
[06:16] <ivoks> 6, not 18
[06:16] <ivoks> new version is every 6 months
[06:17] <ivoks> and you can upgrade step by step
[06:17] <ivoks> so... you can upgrade 6.06 to 6.10, and then 6.10 to 7.04
[06:17] <ivoks> you can't upgrade 6.06 to 7.04
[06:17] <ivoks> it really depends on what your server will do
[06:18] <ivoks> i have only one server on Edgy (will promote it to Feisty soon), and all others are on LTS
[06:18] <flowolf> is anyone using software raid in ubuntu server?
[06:18] <ivoks> (others ~ 30)
[06:18] <ivoks> flowolf: yes
[06:18] <flowolf> ivoks: could you take a look on my bug report? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mdadm/+bug/108971
[06:19] <ivoks> so, you don't have devices listed in mdadm conffile
[06:20] <flowolf> that file is auto created
[06:20] <ivoks> your /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf is empty?
[06:20] <flowolf> no
[06:20] <flowolf> it is attached
[06:20] <flowolf> check it :)
[06:20] <flowolf> http://librarian.launchpad.net/7386866/mdadm.conf
[06:20] <ivoks> oh, sorry :)
[06:21] <ivoks> looks ok
[06:21] <flowolf> mmm
[06:21] <flowolf> looks like it isn't always working
[06:22] <flowolf> it just failed to init the system
[06:23] <ivoks> what does vol_id -u /dev/md0 says?
[06:23] <ivoks> (as root)
[06:24] <flowolf> let me reboot
[06:24] <flowolf> it's on the (initramfs) now
[06:24] <ivoks> eh...
[06:24] <ivoks> i have to go now, so i don't have time...
[06:25] <ivoks> check if uids are correct and status of /proc/mdstat
[06:25] <ivoks> bye
[06:42] <h4wk> Getting a very nice error :/
[06:43] <h4wk> checking for libpq++.h... configure: error: Unable to find libpq++.h
[06:43] <h4wk> Got all the postgre packages
[08:53] <foo> Hmm, looks like the tech had issues installing ubuntu 6.06 on the dell 2950, and 6.10 ... so he installed 7.04 and he said it worked like a charm. Is this ok for production use?
[08:53] <h4wk> I dont see why not :)
[08:54] <h4wk> (However you will need to upgrade as support isnt as long as 6.06)
[08:55] <h4wk> Im just getting annoying postgresql doesnt have libpq++.h anymore
[09:03] <foo> h4wk: hmm, upgrade... yeah. Odds are that will be a dist-upgrade and won't be too bad, right?  Those are the kind of things you keep to yourself.
[09:04] <foo> :D
[09:04] <foo> Do they fix up 6.06 with better hardware support?
[09:06] <h4wk> Keep to myself :P
[09:06] <h4wk> id get asked to many questions if i had ubuntu on my laptop!
[09:06] <foo> hehe
[09:06] <foo> Ubuntu + beryl
[09:06] <foo> :)
[09:33] <benlake> anyone having issues with fiesty needing to have the network modules reloaded to work?
[09:33] <benlake> after a reboot, I should say.
[09:44] <h4wk> Humm
[09:45] <h4wk> indeed foo unbuntu+beryl ftw
[09:51] <benlake> anyone have MD arrays showing [fail]  to stop on reboot in Fiesty?
[10:06] <foo> h4wk: :)
[10:20] <h4wk> foo
[10:21] <h4wk> Im having a problem with ubuntu 7.04, beryl and emerald :(
[10:21] <foo> ah
[10:21] <foo> #beryl, hm, there are some good guides online
[10:21] <foo> I have it on 6.06
[10:21] <foo> :D
[10:59] <okaratas> hello
[11:40] <benlake> anyone have network module issues after an upgrade to fiesty?
[11:41] <benlake> bI have to rmmod then modprobe my network modules for them to work after a reboot. They are loaded on boot but simply dont work.
[11:55] <benlake> ....
[11:55] <Burgundavia> fresh install or udpate?
[12:03] <benlake> upgrade
[12:06] <Burgundavia> hmm
[12:06] <Burgundavia> from 6.10?