[07:54] <mmrazik> didrocks: morning
[07:54] <didrocks> hey mmrazik
[07:54] <mmrazik> didrocks: the unity-team staging PPA seems to be in shape for raring
[07:54] <mmrazik> didrocks: and we (sort of) achieve the same fail rate as on quantal
[07:55] <mmrazik> http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/view/autopilot/job/ps-unity-autopilot-raring/17/testReport/
[07:55] <mmrazik> didrocks: the issue on intel is that we added a second monitor which retrospectively wasn't a great idea
[07:55] <mmrazik> didrocks: we first need to try that somewhere else
[07:56] <mmrazik> didrocks: I'll ask somebody in Lexington to disconnect it today
[07:56] <didrocks> mmrazik: ah ok, so we can count on ~20/25 failures for real?
[07:56] <didrocks> mmrazik: ack on trying that somehwere else :)
[07:56] <didrocks> ok, so I guess we are rather in a good shape to have that wired this week
[07:56] <mmrazik> didrocks: I would hope so. The only difference is the 2nd monitor. Even the number of executed tests on Intel is much higher (>100 tests)
[07:57] <mmrazik> didrocks: I'm looking into the nvidia box. For some reason autopilot didn't even start there.
[07:57] <didrocks> mmrazik: yeah, it seems to be the latest blocker
[07:57] <didrocks> mmrazik: thanks for the update :)
[09:23] <dholbach> hiya
[09:23] <dholbach> when is a new nux release upload planned for raring?
[09:24] <didrocks> hey dholbach, when autopilot tests are stable enough on all archs to have daily landing
[09:24] <dholbach> ah, ok
[09:25] <dholbach> https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/nux/nux.depth-texture-detection-support/+merge/134729 was for the nexus7 bug, right?
[09:25] <dholbach> I just realised that it's still 'needs review'
[09:29] <dholbach> it'd be great to get the MP reviewed and landed
[09:29] <dholbach> as it's blocking things on the nexus7
[09:29] <sil2100> dholbach: it's still being tested, this branch
[09:30] <sil2100> dholbach: currently it diverged from trunk anyway, so I think Jay needs to re-merge it with lp:nux
[09:30] <dholbach> go go go go go! :)
[09:30] <sil2100> dholbach: since anyway it cannot be approved, as there are text conflicts ;)
[09:32] <sil2100> dholbach: I have no nexus7, but I was able to test-build it on my pandaboard and send the whole re-built unity stack it to people responsible
[09:32] <sil2100> dholbach: so I think we might have it reviewed soon
[09:32] <dholbach> you are heroes
[09:33] <dholbach> if you want anything tested on the nexus7, let me know
[09:38] <mmrazik> didrocks: FYI -- we have a compiz crash on all machines :-/ AFAICS its 1:<IP_ADDRESS>+bzr3412-0ubuntu1 or something around bzr3412
[09:38] <mmrazik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1083491
[09:39] <didrocks> mmrazik: ping bregma about it
[09:39] <didrocks> mmrazik: adding to the list, thanks :)
[10:34] <didrocks> Mirv: hey! I don't understand the versionning of the precise bamf. The current one is 0.2.118, and you are releasing 0.2.124, why this jump?
[10:34] <didrocks> Mirv: also it seems that ~ubuntu-desktop/bamf/precise is up to date
[10:34] <didrocks> so can you base on that one?
[10:35] <didrocks> Mirv:     - removed symbols that were wrongly exported upstream before (private
[10:36] <didrocks>       symbols)
[10:36] <didrocks> this is not backportable though
[10:36] <didrocks> (I already removed it when you proposed the previous SRU btw)
[10:36] <didrocks>   * Bump gobject-introspection build-dep to 0.10.2
[10:36] <didrocks> -> this is borderline, I would prefer we don't change it if possible
[11:22] <mhr3>   110 signal com.canonical.indicator.application.service.ApplicationTitleChanged
[11:22] <mhr3>   110 signal com.canonical.indicator.application.service.ApplicationLabelChanged
[11:22] <mhr3>   110 signal com.canonical.indicator.application.service.ApplicationIconChanged
[11:22] <mhr3> larsu, ^ y u spam my dbus? :(
[11:24] <larsu> mhr3, haha, I'm guessing it does that *very* often?
[11:24]  * larsu didn't write that code
[11:26] <Mirv> didrocks: hi! the jump is to catch with upstream fixes instead of just cherry-picking fixes.
[11:26] <mhr3> larsu, the good news is, i see a simple way to send 3 times fewer signals :)
[11:26] <Mirv> didrocks: which means that 0.2 upstream branch should then have the symbol commit reverted - I guess that was done at a time that 0.2 was used for quantal and 0.3 wasn't branched yet
[11:27] <larsu> mhr3, that's exactly what unity.indicator will be doing (well, once I have time to work on that again :( )
[11:27] <mhr3> larsu, wonderful :) then the only thing that's spamming like crazy is bamf
[11:28] <larsu> mhr3, why am I not surprised by that?
[11:28] <larsu> :P
[11:28] <Mirv> didrocks: that's a bit complicated, though, since the other 0.2 backports have been made on top of your commit that removed the symbols
[11:29] <didrocks> Mirv: you can just revert it I guess
[11:29] <didrocks> basically, we don't want to change the symbols
[11:30] <didrocks> Mirv: ok with the version
[11:30] <didrocks> Mirv: or as there are few commits cherry-picks, we can just think about doing distro-patch
[11:30] <mhr3> larsu, everything should just use dee, it's doing good job at minimizing the number of transactions ;)
[11:31] <mhr3> like i just did 140 search requests to lenses and dee emitted a dbus signal 48 times
[11:32] <Mirv> didrocks: I'll wade through the conflicts that come from reverting it, nothing too scary, and do <IP_ADDRESS> after reverting.
[11:32] <didrocks> Mirv: excellent! thanks a lot, for testing, just be light about it, install and ensure it matches apps :)
[11:32] <larsu> mhr3, nice, I should definitely look into dee once I work on something non-menu related ;)  (for which GMenuModel is excellent btw)
[11:33] <Mirv> didrocks: sure, we'll do some more testing before handing it over again. I'll be back later on.
[11:33] <mhr3> larsu, true glib people do think about these things too.... as opposed to bamf :P
[11:33] <didrocks> Mirv: thanks :)
[13:07] <mvo> Trevinho: hi, how is https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/unity/sc-launcher-integration-fixes/+merge/134931 look now? any further suggestions :) ?
[13:13] <mmrazik> can somebody have a look: https://code.launchpad.net/~mrazik/unity/coverage-support/+merge/136345
[13:19] <didrocks> mvo: Trevinho will only be around tonight FYI
[13:24] <mvo> thanks didrocks
[13:44] <didrocks> fginther: hey, how are you?
[13:48] <fginther> didrocks, morning
[13:49] <didrocks> fginther: I wanted to know if you've made any progress on the oif stack for autolanding with packaging inline? I saw a reject on one project and nothing else
[13:51] <vibhav> Are there any parts of Unity written in C?
[13:51] <fginther> didrocks, yes, I was able to just get to one yesterday. The rest will be done today
[13:52] <fginther> didrocks, as long as jenkins cooperates :-)
[13:52] <didrocks> fginther: ok (the one from yesterday wasn't merged successfully, isn't it?). So you think you'll get all done today? Nice :) I'll be able to enable the oif stack tomorrow then for autolanding in ubuntu
[13:53] <fginther> didrocks, yes, I don't have anything higher priority at the moment.  The merge from yesterday failed from a missing commit message I believe
[13:53] <didrocks> fginther: yeah, but as you didn't get back to it just to set it, I thought you saw other problem :)
[13:54] <didrocks> fginther: feel free to put "merge packaging inline" in those btw :)
[13:54] <fginther> didrocks, ah ok, I can do that for the remainder if necessary.
[13:54] <didrocks> fginther: that would be excellent, thanks :)
[13:54] <fginther> didrocks, yw
[14:12] <didrocks> pstolowski: hey, do you need help with you MP?
[14:12] <didrocks> your*
[14:12] <didrocks> for the symbol files
[14:14] <pstolowski> didrocks: hey, no, I should manage this, did it before for another MP. but thanks for asking!
[14:14] <didrocks> pstolowski: just ensure that the version is 0replaceme that you set
[14:14] <didrocks> in case you don't know that yet :)
[14:15] <pstolowski> didrocks: yep, I know :)
[14:15] <didrocks> \o/
[14:28] <fginther> bregma, would you like the oif project autolanding jobs to dput into ppa:oif-team/oif-daily?
[14:28] <fginther> or any ppa?
[14:28] <bregma> we already have a daily build into that PPA, but shutting that down and instituting an autoland would be swell
[14:29] <fginther> bregma, in that case, I'll enable it.  dput to precise, quantal and raring?
[14:30] <bregma> exactly
[14:31] <fginther> I'll have autolanding jobs for evemu, frame, grail, geis and libgrip.  should I add any others?
[14:42] <bregma> fginther, that's the list
[14:42] <fginther> bregma, thank you
[14:48] <mmrazik> bregma: FYI -- with the latest compiz in staging PPA we are getting segfaults on all 3 (ati/intel/nvidia) machines.
[14:48] <mmrazik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1083491
[14:49] <mmrazik> its probably going to block the unity release
[14:49] <bregma> ooh, ouch
[14:49] <mmrazik> (srry for crappy bug report; chris will update it morning his time; he was reporting it late in the night)
[14:50] <mmrazik> bregma: the autopilot job running few hours ago was fine so we should be able to (roughly) tell the bzr version which introduced it (should be in the attachment in the end)
[14:50] <bregma> *$%&@# animations in unity
[14:50] <bregma> must. kill. slowly.
[14:51] <didrocks> bregma: between that and tests failing, I can +1 your comment :)
[15:02] <bregma> mmrazik, the most recent nux had an ABI change in the animator class, which is where the unity plugin crashes are happinging -- is there possibly a mismatch between the nux binaries and the unx dev package in the PPA build environment?
[15:03] <didrocks> bregma: wasn't the version bumped in nux? for the ABI?
[15:03] <mmrazik> fginther: ^^^
[15:04] <bregma> no version bump (not standard practice) but if the unity plugin is built with a different header than the library binary in the compiz build, there's a broken dependency somewhere along the track
[15:06] <didrocks> bregma: well, they should have bumped the version which prevents and will tell immediately that unity can't be installed without a rebuild :)
[15:06] <bregma> could be a newer nux and older unity or a newer unity and older nux
[15:06]  * fginther looks
[15:06] <didrocks> bregma: where is the ABI break btw? I only see addition, no prototype change or struct size changing? (but as the ABI in C++ is always a mistery… ;))
[15:08] <bregma> two new virtual functions were added to the base class, in the middle of the vtable
[15:08] <bregma> the segfault is on a call to Restart(), which goes off into neverland because its offset within the vtable has changed
[15:08] <didrocks> oh, I missed they are virtual
[15:09] <didrocks> yeah makes sense
[15:09] <didrocks> let's make a MR first for the ABI break
[15:12] <fginther> mmrazik, if there was no version bump, then it's possible the autopilot machines picked up a new nux before the new unity was built (best theory at the moment)
[15:13] <didrocks> fginther: there is never a version bump FYI in nux
[15:13] <mmrazik> fginther: the nux version installed on the system should be in the report. Do we know which one is the right?
[15:13] <didrocks> but at least the virtual package is there to tell you can't install unity and nux that doesn't match
[15:13] <didrocks> (when the right string is changed)
[15:14] <mmrazik> let me try to kick-off a new build then
[15:14] <fginther> mmrazik, that should work, the unity in the ppa is much newer then nux
[15:14] <didrocks> bregma: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/nux/abi-breakage/+merge/136443
[15:15] <mmrazik> fginther, didrocks: the intel box has one monitor now as well.. so lets see
[15:15] <didrocks> mmrazik: ah sweet! real data :)
[15:22] <bobweaver> things that do not launch } unity-standalone (seg fault)  unity-dash (seg fault ) wait this is easy. Every binary there is but build/bin/unity
[15:24] <bobweaver> unity 6.12 ,nux 4.0 ,, compiz  <IP_ADDRESS>,libunity-core-6.0.5    6.12.0bzr2934pkg0raring0
[15:25] <bobweaver> which is kinda funny because raring and stagging are getting all mixed up
[15:26] <didrocks> bregma: thanks :)
[15:26] <bobweaver> raring has newer versions of libunity one can not install unity on 13.04 (build that is) with out staging because there is no nux >= 4.0
[15:27] <bobweaver> plugins/unityshell  == broken 100%
[15:27] <bobweaver> cmakelist.txt will not build
[15:27] <bregma> bobweaver, I believe we're working on this as you type
[15:27] <bobweaver> can I help ?
[15:28] <bregma> well, you might have to wait for all the latest things to land in raring, but the staging PPA issue is getting resolved sooner
[15:28] <bregma> mmrazik, do you know when all the current changes will get flushed through into raring-proposed?
[15:29] <bobweaver> I have stagging ppa installed (only place that I could find nux 4.0 for build )
[15:29] <mmrazik> bregma: it probably depends on the results from the jenkins job which is running right now
[15:29] <mmrazik> if it is good then I would assume soon. Like in a few days. Right, didrocks?
[15:29] <bregma> excellent, thanks
[15:29] <didrocks> mmrazik: I can enable that within a day
[15:30] <bregma> bobweaver, do use use jhbuild to build the unity stack, or just the staging PPA?
[15:31] <bobweaver> bregma,  I use cmake  and or qt creator
[15:31] <bobweaver> bzr then  mkdir <source>/build
[15:32] <bobweaver> cd build  then    cmake ../ -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX:PATH=/<source>/build/      then  make -j4 then sudo make install
[15:33] <bobweaver> I have never used jhbuild
[15:33] <bobweaver> not in wiki looks cool though
[15:34] <bobweaver> I am just a qt/qml / c++ /c / hacker new to unity 3d
[15:34] <bregma> bobweaver, I recommend using https://launchpad.net/unity-jhbuild (which runs cmake for you) because it pulls in and builds all the latest dependencies
[15:35] <bregma> it's a meta-build system
[15:38] <bregma> bobweaver, if you have more questions, feel free to ping me
[15:42] <bobweaver> bregma,  cool and thanks I will give it a shot for sure
[16:00] <bobweaver> bregma,  here is a question about Lensview  I changed it so that ( if renderer_name == "tile-horizontal" ) <then I change to be coverflow for both the if and else> But after build nothing changes  here is file   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tv-developers/ubuntutv/trunk/view/head:/dash/LensView.cpp       Lines 329 -- 449
[16:02] <bobweaver> I want to do if render_name = titl.... & formfactor = tv  then ..... But I can not figure out form-factor
[16:04] <didrocks> bregma: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-unity
[16:05] <didrocks> bregma: same, just give a quick status before EOW please :) (feel free to comment/ammend directly)
[16:06] <bobweaver> the render thingy in LensView use to work here is a video example :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcepB1E1lX0&feature=context-gau
[16:07] <bobweaver> I want to kinda set the formfactor of tv to look and act like that but. 1 I can not figure out formfactor in 3d it is not like 2d , and 2 even hardcoding in still dosent work
[16:08] <bobweaver> of course SimpleLauncher(moded lensbar / lensbaricon) and  Slider for filters and also ChannelView also need to be made .......Again :)
[16:12] <bregma> bobweaver, your best bet is to get the standalone tools working first, then it's much much easier to isolate such problems and track down their cause
[16:13] <bobweaver> bregma,   85%] Building CXX object
[16:13] <bobweaver> I need a i7 this thing overheats also
[16:14] <bregma> I had to blow a cloud of dust out of my vent so my computer wouldn;t keep shutting down while building
[16:15] <bobweaver> =)  you have a air compressor ?
[16:15] <bobweaver> << is lucky to have one for working on cars in garage
[16:16] <bobweaver> Also takes about 2X as long because I have "? stacked ?" code meaning dash/ff-tv  ect
[16:17] <bobweaver> I want to work with all you so that we can really get these formfactors Rocking
[16:17] <bobweaver> esp tv and phone
[16:19] <bobweaver> IT IS WORKING !!! Thanks a million bregma  you are awesome !!! I was missing deps
[16:20] <bobweaver> I will add deps to debian/control and push branch ?
[16:32] <bregma> bobweaver, I believe the debian/control file(s) have the correct deps, but they're ignored unless you're building the packages
[16:32] <bregma> and the staging PPAs can be a little out of synch at times as changes work their way through the system
[16:32] <bobweaver> ahh Yeah that is something that I often wonder about build-deps I do not understand it fully
[16:33] <bregma> the only way you can really guarantee stability for developing from trunk is to use jhbuild or manually do the equivalent
[16:33] <didrocks> tedg: thanks!
[16:34] <tedg> Oh, this is still CDBS...
[16:35] <didrocks> tedg: you should turn to dh9, --fail-missing and so on! :-)
[16:35] <didrocks> tedg: the other indicators projects are all on this new trend!
[16:35] <didrocks> again if you need any help, do not hesitate :)
[16:40] <tedg> We should really require every package that needs an override_* to have a bug tracking why they need it.
[16:40] <tedg> Either it's a bug in debhelper or a bug in the project.
[16:40] <didrocks> tedg: TBH, I would be in favor of having --fail-missing by default
[16:40] <didrocks> thoughts on that?
[16:41] <tedg> didrocks, Not sure what it does, which is that one?
[16:41] <didrocks> it's dh_install --fail-missing
[16:41] <didrocks> so, if you forgot to ship a file
[16:41] <didrocks> it will fail
[16:41] <didrocks> you can exclude some files for sure, like .la or .a with -X
[16:42] <didrocks> (all files installed by make installed should be explicitely treated IMHO)
[16:42] <tedg> Uhm, the only case I'd say that'd be tricky is things like gtk-doc where you might not want to have a doc package for internal docs.
[16:42] <tedg> But then you'd have to modify gtk-doc to not install it.
[16:43] <didrocks> right or just --disable-doc… or a switch to not build them
[16:43] <didrocks> I'll enroll you in the cabale then! (what? it doesn't exist ;))
[16:46] <tedg> alesage, Do you want me to hand merge this into trunk?
[16:47] <alesage> tedg, please suffer one more manual merge for me :)
[16:48] <tedg> alesage, Done
[16:49] <mmrazik> didrocks, bregma: seems the staging PPA is ok now: http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/ps-unity-autopilot-raring/label=master,machine_name=dx-autopilot-intel/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
[16:49] <mmrazik> the nvidia box still has the Xorg crash :-/
[16:49] <didrocks> mmrazik: sweet, with a sane number of failures :)
[16:49] <bregma> the only sane number is zero
[16:49] <didrocks> so only nvidia is remaining has the bad guy now
[16:49] <mmrazik> didrocks: and ati finished as well right now
[16:50] <didrocks> bregma: well, compared to where we started…
[16:50] <bregma> so we are still insane
[16:50] <mmrazik> didrocks: I think he is talking about set theory...
[16:51] <mmrazik> didrocks: I'm quite bad with crash analysis and I'm unable to get any meaningful stack trace out of the Xorg dump
[16:51] <didrocks> bregma: depends, on my previous big/famouse company software, you are never to 0. But yeah, we'll get the number down
[16:51] <didrocks> mmrazik: I can give a hand tomorrow on that if needed
[16:51] <didrocks> famous*
[16:51] <mmrazik> didrocks: if tomorrow is OK then I'll ask veebers to have a look
[16:51] <didrocks> mmrazik: good :)
[16:51] <didrocks> mmrazik: btw, are you only testing with free driver?
[16:52] <didrocks> mmrazik: I think we want the proprieratery one for the tests results, as it's what we support officially AFAIK
[16:52] <mmrazik> didrocks: we only do free AFAICS
[16:52] <didrocks> mmrazik: maybe it's something we need to change, bregma thoughts? ^
[16:52] <mmrazik> didrocks: proprietary instead or in addition to the free?
[16:52] <didrocks> mmrazik: I think instead first
[16:52] <mmrazik> (addition is going to be a bit tricky due to lack of HW)
[16:53] <bregma> ideally we need both
[16:54] <bregma> can we overcome the hardware problem by doing sequential runs?
[16:54] <bregma> or is change turnover too high for that?
[16:55] <didrocks> bregma: I think starting with 1 is acceptable for daily landing, but having on target both is wanted
[16:55] <mmrazik> bregma: we can do sequential runs but it takes ~1.5 per run
[16:55] <mmrazik> 1.5h
[16:56] <bregma> I think we really need both free and non-free since the difference can be substantial, 1.5h isn't too bad for a daily build
[16:57] <mmrazik> Ok. I'll drop veebers an e-mail. He had some issues with installing the proprietary from preseed..
[16:58] <didrocks> fginther: seems evemu is still failing
[16:58] <mmrazik> bregma: not sure if I was clear but its going to be 3 hours if we do sequentially
[16:58] <mmrazik> probably close to 4
[16:59] <bregma> is the hardware used for other builds?
[16:59] <fginther> didrocks, :-) I missed a configuration copy&paste error.  I'm watching the results and will keep trying until it lands
[16:59] <didrocks> great :)
[17:00] <mmrazik> bregma: you mean other projects? Not currently but I need that HW. Its not currently being used just because I really want to release unity and don't want to mess up with the setup.
[17:01] <mmrazik> but 4h is still fine with me
[17:01] <mmrazik> in theory :)
[17:01] <mmrazik> (the issue is that sometimes an installation on the ati box fails for mysterius reasons and if we need to restart after 2 h then the total time will be more like 2+4=6h)
[17:02] <bregma> we really should not land in Ubuntu if it fails on any of free or non-free (for a reasonable definition of fail)
[17:02] <mmrazik> makes sense to me. I'm just saying what the implications might be.
[17:02] <didrocks> yeah, I agree, let's see how deep the configuration is needed, but first, let's have one working at least :p
[17:03] <bregma> yes
[17:04] <mmrazik> didrocks, bregma: I'm just writing an e-mail to Chris to 1. figure out what is the bug# for the current XOrg carsh on nvidia and 2. try to provision the machine with proprietary drivers (and file an utah bug if utah doesn't support this out of the box)
[17:04] <didrocks> mmrazik: thanks a lot! Happy to see we are nearly done :)
[17:44] <didrocks> bregma: I would love enhancing if you give me edit rights on the doc :)
[17:46] <bregma> didrocks, you should have them now, assuming you reload
[17:46] <didrocks> bregma: good assumption :)
[18:03] <bobweaver> I would like to invite all the Unity team members to are Ubuntu TV meeting it is on Friday right before your meeting . It is on the fridge
[18:06] <bobweaver> We need more Unity people in are team. Seems Like I am the only one that is integrating all the old unity 2d code too the Unity 3d. And I am swamped. Could use other developers to come to meeting and get Unity team and Ubuntu TV team on the same page as to where they are going in the future and where things are right now. I for one would like to see a large amount if not all this go together (code). Thanks for considering it. And if yo
[18:06] <bobweaver> u have any question for me about what I am doing with Unity (tv-related) I am more then happy to talk about it. in fact there are many things that I do not know what to do. Thanks again for considering it.
[18:08] <aepound> Where would I send emails about misspellings on the ubuntu websites?  I find one every now and then , and just want to let someone know.... Thanks
[18:10] <bobweaver> aepound,  you have tried   #ubuntu-website ?
[18:10] <aepound> Nope, I hadn't found that yet.  Thanks,
[18:12]  * bobweaver is dyslexic , you should see some of my comments in my code . =) j/k I try to make them spelled right .
[19:08] <fginther> cyphermox, did you see didrocks comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/libgrip/inline/+merge/135806?
[19:49] <cyphermox> fginther: guess that one got lost in the noise, I think it was working but I'll build and install the package locally now to be sure
[19:50] <fginther> cyphermox, no worries, let me know if it checks out and I'll make sure it gets merged.


[15:17] <lifeboy> Is there a dedicated channel for support with compiling your own kernel (10.04 in my case)?
[15:21] <Ian_Corne> I guess you could try #ubuntu-kernel
[15:23] <lifeboy> Ian_Corne: I'll go ask there, thanks
[18:39] <BluesKaj> BBL, stuff to do


[05:59] <jibel> Good morning
[06:49] <pitti> hey jibel
[07:11] <jibel> Hi pitti, comment ça va?
[07:17] <pitti> jibel: ça va bien, merci ! et toi ?
[07:32] <jibel> pitti, ça va bien également.
[08:55] <jamespage> jibel, whats the magic feature to make autopkg tests ignore stderr as errors?
[09:02] <jibel> jamespage, allow-stderr in the restrictions
[09:02] <jamespage> jibel, ta
[09:31] <DanChapman> good morning all :-)
[10:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[15:03] <balloons> howdy DanChapman
[15:30] <DanChapman> howdy balloons o/ how are you?
[15:33] <balloons> DanChapman, good how's about yourself/
[15:33] <balloons> I was chatting with senan yesterday
[15:34] <DanChapman> Yeah I'm good thanks just been really bogged down with studying the last week or so.. nearing the end now. Oh right how's senan been getting on?
[15:39] <DanChapman> balloons: ^^ also is it still planned for the 13th to review the ubiquity tests?
[15:40] <balloons> DanChapman, mmm indeed. We should get an actual meeting on the calendar for that
[15:40] <balloons> DanChapman, he was having trouble so I told him to look at the branch and leave his comments on the MP
[15:43] <DanChapman> balloons: ok i will go see if he left a comment :-)
[15:44] <DanChapman> balloons: Yeah we should get a date set, should also see when is good for jibel aswell
[15:44] <balloons> DanChapman, he didn't sadly; https://code.launchpad.net/~senan/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/DiskUsageAnalyser/+merge/193087
[15:44] <balloons> jibel, you still around?
[15:44] <DanChapman> balloons: well I will be hanging around tonight so will try and catch him if he appears
[15:50] <balloons> Man, look at the dashboard today :-) http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/
[16:42] <senan> balloons,DanChapman : Good Evening
[16:43]  * balloons waves to senan
[16:43] <balloons> just chatting about you..
[16:43] <DanChapman> hey senan :-)
[16:46] <senan> :)
[16:52] <DanChapman> senan, balloons was saying you were having some troubles?
[16:52] <jibel> balloons, I'm there
[16:53] <senan> DanChapman; yea the same issue we discussed earlier..But I didnt check the code you sent
[16:54] <DanChapman> senan yeah take a look through that branch and see what you can come up with :-) there is some bits in there you will find useful
[16:54] <senan> DanChapman: What the emulator does ? I didnt understand the purpose
[16:58] <senan> DanChapman, But when I am running autopilot run Disk... its working fine
[16:59] <DanChapman> senan, basically the emulators just bolt on additional utillity functions to the object you are interacting with, it takes the pain out of doing some of the tricky bits with writing the tests
[17:05] <DanChapman> senan so for instance your test currently is blindly clicking the treeview in the GtkFileChooserDialog and then you have to try and do the hardwork of getting to a certain directory (making sure the file chooser entry is visible/has focus/text is entered correctly and so on...) so you can open it, the emulator basically takes the tricky work out of it. All you have to do is select the GtkFileChooserDialog, then use say GtkFileCHooserDialog
[17:05] <DanChapman> .go_to_directory('/home') and it will do it all for you
[17:08] <DanChapman> balloons: I cancelled that gtk emulator MP as I wanted to rework it plus I have some extra functions to add, and it seemed like it wasn't going to get looked at :-) Its almost ready for a new MP though
[17:09] <balloons> DanChapman, :-) Things are calmed down. I would suggest pinging thomi directly once it's ready
[17:09] <balloons> I can ask as well
[17:11] <DanChapman> balloons: yep sure will :-)
[17:33] <senan> DanChapman: Is the test failing because it selects multiple items ?
[17:41] <senan> DanChapman, Does it mean there is multiple elements with same attributes exists ?
[17:43] <dkessel> good evening :)
[17:46] <senan> Good Night All :)
[17:52] <balloons> dkessel, evening
[18:59] <syfhvbgos7> WARNING       WARNING      WARNING,                       WARNINGWARNING             WARNING              WARNING,     WARNING         WARNING YOU MAY BE WATCHED    YOU MAY BE WATCHED                YOU MAY BE WATCHEDDo usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?Do
[18:59] <syfhvbgos7> they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!?هل تستخدم امريكاواسرئيل الشات والفيس بوك للتجسس!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!  YOU MAY BE WATCHED WARNING       WARNING      WARNING,                       WARNINGWARNING             WARNING              WARNING,     WARNING         WARNING YOU MAY BE WATCHED    YOU MAY BE WATCHED                YOU MAY BE
[18:59] <syfhvbgos7> WATCHEDDo usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!?هل تستخدم امريكاواسرئيل الشات والفيس بوك للتجسس!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!		YOU MAY BE WATCHED WARNING       WARNING      WARNING,
[18:59] <syfhvbgos7>                      WARNINGWARNING             WARNING              WARNING,     WARNING         WARNING YOU MAY BE WATCHED    YOU MAY BE WATCHED                YOU MAY BE WATCHEDDo usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?Do they record &analyse everything we
[18:59] <syfhvbgos7> type?!?!?!?هل تستخدم امريكاواسرئيل الشات والفيس بوك للتجسس!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!  YOU MAY BE WATCHED WARNING       WARNING      WARNING,                       WARNINGWARNING             WARNING              WARNING,     WARNING         WARNING YOU MAY BE WATCHED    YOU MAY BE WATCHED                YOU MAY BE WATCHEDDo usa&israel use chat&social
[18:59] <syfhvbgos7> communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!?هل تستخدم امريكاواسرئيل الشات والفيس بوك للتجسس!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!


[00:00] <wgrant> arand: Should be updated in an hour or so.
[00:00] <wgrant> Bah.
[00:00] <wgrant> ari-tczew, who is no longer here.
[00:00] <arand> :)
[00:09] <tumbleweed> Laney: played around with ubuntu_upload_history a little this evening: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
[00:09] <tumbleweed> more universe uploads than I expected
[00:09] <tumbleweed> would be interesting to compare canonical vs community uploads :P
[00:39] <sladen> tumbleweed: indeedy
[03:17] <MaximLevitsky> I notice that both avidemux and gddcontrol disappeared from ubuntu repos
[03:17] <MaximLevitsky> launchpad does they that they are in 10.04
[03:18] <MaximLevitsky> is there a problem with main server or what?
[03:19] <wgrant> MaximLevitsky: Disappeared how?
[03:19] <MaximLevitsky> I don't have it in apt cache
[03:19] <MaximLevitsky> I updated it and that doesn't help
[03:19] <wgrant> Ah, it was removed because it fails to build.
[03:19] <wgrant> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/i386/avidemux
[03:20] <wgrant> https://launchpad.net/bugs/831096
[03:20] <MaximLevitsky> I am sorry that I ask here, its not 100% ontopic
[03:20] <MaximLevitsky> Apt-get doesn't let me install it
[03:20] <MaximLevitsky> And I am quite sure I have everything right here
[03:20] <MaximLevitsky> Maybe a problem with servers?
[03:20] <wgrant> Right, it was removed because it no longer builds successfully.
[03:21] <MaximLevitsky> And i guess gddccontrol too :-(
[03:21] <MaximLevitsky> It has optional gnome-panel applet
[03:22] <MaximLevitsky> Its really sad as I use it often
[03:22] <MaximLevitsky> I know its not maintained
[03:22] <wgrant> It was also removed, as it's a GNOME 2 panel applet.
[03:22] <MaximLevitsky> nope, its not an applet
[03:22] <MaximLevitsky> it has optional applet
[03:22] <wgrant> "old gnome-panel 2 applet, unmaintained"
[03:23] <MaximLevitsky> app itself is normal gnome2 app
[03:23] <wgrant> Hm, let's see...
[03:24] <MaximLevitsky> It controls lots of monitors
[03:24] <MaximLevitsky> Sad that nobody maintains it
[03:25] <MaximLevitsky> Maybe I should...
[03:25] <wgrant> Looks like it could reasonably be revived if someone ports/removes the GNOME 2 dep from it.
[03:25] <MaximLevitsky> I'll take a look
[03:46] <MaximLevitsky> wgrant: and last question
[03:46] <MaximLevitsky> what about KDE3 libraries?
[03:46] <MaximLevitsky> I suspect they got removed too?
[03:52] <wgrant> MaximLevitsky: I'm not sure about the KDE situation, sorry. But Qt3 is still around.
[03:53] <MaximLevitsky> kdelibs4 got removed, that what I see
[03:54] <MaximLevitsky> and I have app (kscope) also abadoned that I use very often
[03:54] <MaximLevitsky> I compiled it from source
[03:56] <MaximLevitsky> Sorry for trolling, but peoples say that windows breaks support for apps, and linux not... So much for that....
[03:58] <sladen> MaximLevitsky: sorry, I can't quite follow.  What's the question?
[03:58] <MaximLevitsky> ubuntu 10.04 removed some packages
[03:58] <wgrant> 11.10, you mean?
[03:59] <MaximLevitsky> including as I see kde3 libraries
[03:59] <wgrant> kdelibs was last in 11.04.
[03:59] <MaximLevitsky> but why?
[03:59] <wgrant> (also, Windows has probably the best backward application compatibility of any operating system... I don't see many people saying otherwise)
[03:59] <MaximLevitsky> wgrant: agree. sorry for trolling :-)
[04:00] <MaximLevitsky> Anyway, please consider not removing support for legacy apps
[04:00] <wgrant> Bug #794513
[04:00] <wgrant> IIRC we moved to KDE4 3 years ago now...
[04:01] <MaximLevitsky> Agreed, but there are always apps that aren't ported
[04:01] <wgrant> And upstream dropped support for all that *long* ago.
[04:01] <MaximLevitsky> GTk1 I think is still included
[04:01] <wgrant> There's only so much that it's practical for distributions to do, once upstream drops support.
[04:01] <MaximLevitsky> or at least was for such long time
[04:02] <wgrant> I believe libgtk1.2 was kept around mostly because there were proprietary applications that used it.
[04:03] <wgrant> Applications that could not be ported.
[04:03] <wgrant> Whereas, for KDE3 apps, it's more that nobody can be bothered to port them in the three years that they have been using deprecated libraries.
[04:03] <MaximLevitsky> wgrant: but even if app is open source who has time to port it?
[04:03] <MaximLevitsky> kscope was abadoned I know
[04:04] <MaximLevitsky> but its only IDE with sane browsing support
[04:04] <MaximLevitsky> I use it for all developing
[04:04] <wgrant> If KDE upstream maintained the KDE3 libraries then we might have kept them around.
[04:04] <MaximLevitsky> fair
[04:05] <MaximLevitsky> But why there is need to maintain it?
[04:05] <MaximLevitsky> the package from 10.04 does work just fine
[04:05] <wgrant> Packages fail to build due to toolchain changes, or need security fixes, or whatever.
[04:05] <sladen> MaximLevitsky: if an application is important, somebody will port or maintain it.  The problem comes when nobody maintains it (in which case it's not being used much)
[04:05] <wgrant> Right.
[04:05] <wgrant> For most FOSS applications it's not a problem, because someone will care enough to port it.
[04:06] <wgrant> Apparently that's not the case for kscope.
[04:06] <MaximLevitsky> There was attempt for Qt4 version, but it didn't work out
[06:05] <alkisg> If I want a package of mine to be more compatible with Debian, I'd better use sysv init.d scripts and not upstart, right? Or should I have different packages for Debian/Ubuntu?
[06:14] <sladen> alkisg: it sounds like you're not relying on any of the advanced features of upstart, in which case, just install sysV init.d scripts
[06:14] <alkisg> My upstart jobs now starts on (filesystem and started networking), so will do, thank you :)
[06:15] <sladen> alkisg: if you were /relying/ on upstart, then you'd be using functionality that would not be possible to replicate in init.d scripts (* without basically reimplementing upstart)
[09:59] <Laney> tumbleweed: cool!
[10:00] <Laney> maybe it could also show the freeze dates?
[10:01] <tumbleweed> yeah, I was also thinking that
[10:01] <Laney> i started to write the lplib importer
[10:01] <Laney> but then i got bogged down parsing the changelog and urgh
[10:02] <tumbleweed> you can steal the bug closing regex from lp
[10:02] <Laney> i was just using vendor profiles to get launchpad-bugs-fixed
[10:03]  * tumbleweed finishes making http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/oldmerges/ prettier and faster
[10:03] <tumbleweed> ah yeah if you are parsing .changes files, you can do that
[10:03] <tumbleweed> you'll miss bugs closed in lp by syncs, though
[10:04] <Laney> dpkg-parsechangelog gives you it too
[10:04] <tumbleweed> oh, I see
[10:05]  * tumbleweed doesn't want to even think about how slow an initial import will be
[10:05] <Laney> erk
[10:05] <Laney> I didn't consider doing that
[10:21] <alkisg> I'm getting "update-rc.d: warning: /etc/init.d/epoptes-client missing LSB information" when I install my package that contains this sysvinit script, any hints? http://paste.ubuntu.com/709472/
[10:29] <alkisg> Hmm it seemed like a temporary error, I somehow had some dpkg-new entries in init.d/
[12:46] <geser> micahg_: is bug #670659 still valid or is this fixed in the current FTBFS pages?
[12:47] <tumbleweed> geser: just busy working on incorporating my historical graph into the FTBFS page (at the end of the page, rather than on a separate page)
[12:47] <tumbleweed> Laney: I added some milestones http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
[12:48] <Laney> nice
[12:48] <geser> tumbleweed: I didn't had time yet to review your MP. Does it work with the multi-archive support of the script?
[12:49] <tumbleweed> geser: haven't looked at all. Also, with the current state of the MP, it just spits out JSON, but doesn't generate the (previously static) html page that draws the graph
[12:51] <tumbleweed> Laney: for oneiric, it looks suspiciously like it's including syncs before DIF. I tried to exclude that with WHERE signed_by != 'N/A'. That's about the best I can do, right?
[12:52] <geser> tumbleweed: you could put the static files directly into the top-directory (I should probably move the css and the .js files there too and let the source link point to the LP project now that it exists)
[12:52] <tumbleweed> my merge will update the source link
[12:53] <tumbleweed> problem with the static pages as they stand is that we need to generate one per release
[12:53] <tumbleweed> also, I don't think having that many graphs is useful. One, with the right configuration options, should suffice
[12:56] <geser> could the graph be updated through JS to load the matching JSON data file?
[12:57] <tumbleweed> well, right now you can add and remove series. I'll ad a dropdown to select architecture http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html instead of one graph per arch
[12:57] <tumbleweed> it can all come from one json file
[12:58] <jtaylor> that page does nto work with opera :(
[12:58] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: any idea why?
[12:59] <tumbleweed> geser: actually, I'll probably just dump the json into the generated html
[13:00] <jtaylor> what happened on sep 1? :)
[13:01] <tumbleweed> don't know
[13:02] <tumbleweed> the logs didn't show anything unuual
[13:02] <jtaylor> this is the error I'm getting with opera http://paste.ubuntu.com/709642/
[13:03] <tumbleweed> thanks
[13:05] <tumbleweed> jtaylor: fixed?
[13:05] <jtaylor> yes thanks
[13:21] <alkisg> So my problem (much) above seems to be that dh_installinit makes symlinks in init.d for upstart jobs, but it doesn't remove them before upgrading. So to migrate my app from upstart to sysvinit I had to put a preinst script and remove the symlinks manually :(
[13:23] <geser> why do you migrate from upstart to sysvinit?
[13:23] <alkisg> (09:05:02 πμ) alkisg: If I want a package of mine to be more compatible with Debian, I'd better use sysv init.d scripts and not upstart, right? Or should I have different packages for Debian/Ubuntu?
[13:23] <alkisg> Mainly for debian compatibility
[13:24] <stgraber> alkisg: you can have both in your package. debian/<binary package name>.init is for sysvinit and debian/<binary package name>.upstart is for upstart
[13:24] <stgraber> alkisg: that way you can provide both, you'll have sysvinit on Debian and Upstart on Ubuntu
[13:24] <alkisg> stgraber: yes, but I can't have one package for both distros
[13:24] <geser> if it's not to much work provide both a sysvinit and upstart file. If I'm not mistaken Debian's dh_installinit will install the sysvinit and Ubuntu's dh_installinit prefers the upstart file
[13:24] <alkisg> (binary)
[13:25] <stgraber> alkisg: indeed, but all the packages get rebuilt when syncing from Debian, so that's not a problem
[13:25] <stgraber> alkisg: assuming you plan on actually uploading that package to Debian
[13:25] <alkisg> Any downsides for providing only a sysvinit script?
[13:25] <geser> so this is for an external repository?
[13:25] <alkisg> Currently it's being built on launchpad and uploaded on a PPA
[13:26] <stgraber> if that's for a PPA/external repository, I'd suggest building two separate packages. If that's for actual archive upload, then provide both in debian/ and let the Debian and Ubuntu builders do the needed magic
[13:26] <alkisg> I want to try if the same .deb works on debian, so that I can minimize the things I need to do for each release (now I only click on a recipe)
[13:26] <alkisg> stgraber: Ubuntu won't be running both script on boot, right? Only the upstart one...
[13:27] <alkisg> (the sysvinit and the upstart one)
[13:27] <stgraber> alkisg: if the sysvinit script is a symlink autogenerated by the builder, then it'll only start it once
[13:27] <geser> alkisg: only one will get installed during package building by dh_installinit
[13:27] <alkisg> Ah, so dh_installinit is clever and only takes the upstart one
[13:27] <stgraber> alkisg: if your binary package contains both a valid (non-symlink) sysvinit script + and upstart job, then both will start
[13:27] <alkisg> Gotcha
[13:27] <alkisg> Thank you guys
[13:29] <alkisg> stgraber: the main reason I include a sysvinit/upstart script anyway, is because ltsp clients don't receive an if-up event, so I'll remove it completely if/once we fix that part in ltsp...
[13:29] <alkisg> So I only use that script to fake an if-up event
[13:32]  * tumbleweed doesn't quite get the ARB poll. We are selecting 3 from 3?
[13:32] <stgraber> alkisg: ah, yeah, not quite sure I want to fix that "bug" to be honest ;) as quite a lot of stuff can get triggered by the if-up event that we always handle another way
[13:32] <stgraber> tumbleweed: yeah, that's a bit weird ;) it's basically some kind of confirmation vote but with no way of selecting "I don't want him" :)
[13:32] <stgraber> anyway, got to run, flight is boarding!
[13:32] <tumbleweed> stgraber: yeah, it either needs a NOTA or more applicants
[13:33] <alkisg> stgraber: I think we only handle ntpdate, and it doesn't matter much if it gets called a second time. E.g: avahi-autoipd  avahi-daemon  ethtool  ntpdate  openssh-server  postfix  upstart  wireless  wpasupplicant
[13:33] <alkisg> Let's think about it at BTS
[13:34] <alkisg> It might even be better to remove our ntpdate handling
[13:34] <alkisg> (as it's even ran synchronously now)
[13:44] <Laney> hmm
[13:44] <Laney> you get publication records when a new series is initialised from an old one
[14:45] <tumbleweed> geser: done: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/lp-ftbfs-report/historical
[14:46] <geser> looks great
[14:47] <geser> will it do the right thing also when used on the archive rebuilds?
[14:47] <tumbleweed> haven't tested that :P
[14:48] <geser> does it list all package sets with a current count > 0 or also those which had in the past at least one FTBFS? (or even all available package sets?)
[14:49] <tumbleweed> every time it runs, it records the packages with failed builds in a per-series-per-archive sqlite db
[14:50] <tumbleweed> then it mines that db to produce aggregate failures per packageset per arch per day
[14:50] <tumbleweed> yeah it just lists all package sets that appear in the data, so >0 failures
[14:52] <geser> some cosmetic issues: can you configure the min step size and min value of the y-axis? try selecting only xubuntu or mythbuntu or utouch or netbook
[14:52] <tumbleweed> right, I think we need to include 0s everywhere
[15:00] <geser> I guess adding "yaxis: { min: 0; minTickSize: 1;}" would solve it
[15:04] <tumbleweed> that still wouldn't be quite right
[15:05] <geser> why?
[15:06] <geser> there is nothing like -1 FTBFS or a fraction of a FTBFS (0.5 FTBFS)
[15:07] <tumbleweed> the problem is that we are not displaynig data points where we know there were 0 failures
[15:07] <tumbleweed> I do agree about adding those options, though
[15:07] <geser> ah, that's an other issue
[15:07] <geser> I was just looking at the y-axis
[15:38] <tumbleweed> geser: there. My js-fu isn't great, took me a while...
[15:49] <tumbleweed> and regenerated my demo
[15:53] <Rhonda> huhm, my neighbour called me for upgrade issues to oneiric - and now I'm stuck. :)
[17:17] <micahg> geser: I think it's fixed now
[19:40] <Laney> ffs
[19:41] <Laney> the lplib method is rather annoying
[19:43] <nigelb> to do what?
[19:43] <Laney> list uploads
[19:43] <nigelb> Ah.
[19:44] <nigelb> I'm tempted to suggest screen scraping, but people will shoot me for that.
[19:46] <Laney> http://paste.debian.net/137132/
[19:51] <ajmitch> nigelb: yes, you would be shot for that
[19:51] <ajmitch> Laney: that's ugly
[19:51] <nigelb> indeed.
[19:51] <ajmitch> isn't there something in python-debian you can use instead of calling out to dpkg-parsechangelog?
[19:51] <nigelb> ajmitch: I know. Which is why I was careful not to suggest.
[19:52] <Laney> dunno
[19:52] <Laney> fix it?
[19:52] <ajmitch> "patches welcome"
[19:52] <ajmitch> or get nigelb to add something to the API so you don't have to do this
[19:52] <Laney> i filed a bug asking for them to expose the changelog url
[19:52] <nigelb> drat, should keep a low profile of my lp hacking :P
[19:52] <Laney> that would be nice
[19:53] <ajmitch> nigelb: too late for that
[19:53] <Laney> and the closed bugs, indeed
[19:53] <nigelb> But then, I'm careful not to touch Soyuz.
[19:53] <ajmitch> so you still have a tenuous grasp on sanity?
[19:53] <nigelb> Yep!
[19:53] <nigelb> Mostly I like solving UI things that irritate me.
[19:54] <nigelb> Like the the one about mouseovering a bug and getting the bug title.
[19:54] <nigelb> That's my proudest fix :D
[19:54] <Laney> i definitely looked at python-debian
[19:54] <Laney> some reason it didnt do what i wanted
[19:54] <ajmitch> hm
[19:55] <Laney> currently mainly need a way to ignore the spphs that you get when intialising a new release
[19:55] <Laney> any ideas?
[19:56]  * ajmitch hasn't dealt with that part of lplib
[19:58] <nigelb> Neither have I.
[19:58] <geser> nigelb: beware, you might get hired if you work to much on LP, happened to wgrant :)
[19:59] <nigelb> geser: haha, I'll take that as positive outcome :P
[20:04] <tumbleweed> Laney: I guess you have no choice but to keep track of versions you've already visited
[20:05] <tumbleweed> Laney: for ubuntu upload history, can't you get changes files in the vast majority of cases?
[20:05] <Laney> i am searching for Published spphs with the same version
[20:05] <Laney> seems like it would be easier to just use the same method for everything
[20:05] <nigelb> I suggest asking wgrant in the morning. He'd know better than all of us.
[20:05] <nigelb> (in *his* morning)
[20:05] <ajmitch> it is his morning, just 7AM there
[20:06] <nigelb> Oh right. Timezones. Gah.
[20:06] <ajmitch> yeah, wonderful things
[20:06] <ajmitch> means that I'm already at work on a monday morning now :(
[20:07] <nigelb> aww :(
[21:35] <Laney> erm, well I think it works, but it is pretty much the slowest thing ever
[21:37] <ajmitch> how long does it take to run?
[21:37] <ajmitch> and are you tracking what you've checked in the past, so that you don't have to look up all of precise-changes for every run?
[21:40] <Laney> that is why we have created_since_date
[21:42] <Laney> oh it's not that bad if you give it a more recent date
[21:43] <ajmitch> going to run it from a cron job locally, or do you want to put it somewhere like qa.ubuntuwire.org?
[21:45] <Laney> i'll run it on samosa
[21:45] <Laney> if they install lplib for me
[21:46] <ajmitch> useful if you need access to udd as well, I guess
[21:47] <Laney> given that importing into udd is the whole point, seems to make sense
[21:48] <ajmitch> the one advantage of ubuntuwire is that it's about 3ms away from LP
[21:49] <tumbleweed> Laney: I see you've just NMUed hp-ppd which is at the top of oldmerges (thanks to the NMU versions being lower than the ubuntu one). I hope you'll merge it :)
[21:49] <tumbleweed> ajmitch: yeah, it is impressively quick for lplib
[21:49] <Laney> erm erm erm
[22:42] <udienz> tumbleweed, i think xmem need to sync instead of merge
[22:42] <udienz> bug 876032
[22:46] <tumbleweed> udienz: agreed
[23:24] <udienz> does only rebuild package is approved to -proposed/-updates?
[23:25] <udienz> bug 873984 seems like proftpd-dfsg need to rebuild again cureent openssl
[23:26] <micahg> udienz: if the package is currently broke, sure


[06:05] <darkxst_> jbicha, so hit that lock screen failure
[06:05] <darkxst_> restarting gnome-shell is enough to fix it
[06:06] <darkxst_> btw did you file a bug?
[06:08] <jbicha> darkxst_: no
[06:10] <darkxst_> probably it should retry when it fails ;)
[13:55] <jbicha> ricotz: how long should I wait before I drop the duplicate packages from the staging PPA?
[13:56] <ricotz> jbicha, please dont delete them
[13:56] <ricotz> jbicha, hi ;)
[13:56] <ricotz> and the deps on gnome-documents are not sufficient
[13:56] <jbicha> ricotz: I don't like the clutter and it's confusing
[13:56] <ricotz> i guess you should delete it again
[13:58] <ricotz> (if you are copying packages from one ppa to another, there is normally no need to wait much after it)
[13:58] <ricotz> (in this it has been made clear to enable both)
[14:02] <ricotz> jbicha, i guess  alacarte - 3.7.90-0ubuntu1~raring1 ended up in the wrong ppa?
[14:14] <jbicha> ricotz: thanks, it was gnome-menus that I didn't push to the right place
[14:18] <ricotz> jbicha, gnome-documents actually requires tracker
[14:18] <ricotz> no i am not sure you really want it there
[14:18] <ricotz> no/so
[14:21] <jbicha> ricotz: but raring has tracker 0.14 so it's ok, right?
[14:21] <ricotz> it depends on 0.16
[14:23] <jbicha> I can just fix it so that it doesn't, right?
[14:24] <ricotz> no
[14:25] <ricotz> (maybe by patching configure.ac and hoping the best)
[14:26] <ricotz> (and some of the js files)
[14:27] <jbicha> any reason we shouldn't copy tracker 0.15 then?
[14:31] <ricotz> jbicha, seems reasonable since it needs e-d-s/evolution to be compatible so, rebuilding the failed 0.15.1 in gnome3 should work


[12:58] <troy_s> mhz www.gnome-look.org
[12:59] <troy_s> is probably the best place to get exposure.
[12:59] <mhz> hmm
[12:59] <mhz> troy_s: thx
[01:12] <beshy> or art.gnome.org
[01:13] <mhz> how long will a.u.c be down for submission?
[03:12] <Viper550> Hello everyone
[07:29] <kwwii_> moin
[07:31] <Madpilot> hi
[07:31] <kwwii_> hi Madpilot
[07:31] <kwwii_> kinda early here...think I might go back to bed for a while
[07:32] <kwwii_> not sure though, the silence is nice
[07:35] <nixternal> hiya kwwii_, i heard you are gonna be in town, Antioch?
[07:35] <kwwii_> nixternal, I'll be coming in Janesville and Edgerton
[07:35] <kwwii_> coming up to...
[07:36] <nixternal> janesville, as in wisconsin?
[07:36] <kwwii_> yupp
[07:36] <kwwii_> that is where my family is from
[07:36] <nixternal> ahhh, ok...so you won't be near chicago then
[07:36] <kwwii_> well, half of it
[07:36] <kwwii_> well, I will be spending a few days in Morris
[07:36] <kwwii_> south of Chicago
[07:36] <nixternal> heh, all around the city ;)
[07:37] <kwwii_> yeah, I used to live in the chain of lakes area
[07:37] <nixternal> i don't know if i have evern been to Edgerton, janesville once when my sister lived there
[07:37] <nixternal> ya i remember talking blarney's island with ya
[07:38] <kwwii_> hehe, exactly
[07:38] <kwwii_> I forgot that
[07:38] <kwwii_> edgerton is about 10 min from Janesville
[07:38] <kwwii_> my dad has a summer home there
[07:39] <nixternal> ahhh, ok, so it is in the general vacinity then
[07:39] <kwwii_> and two of my sisters live in Janesville, the other in Footville
[07:40] <nixternal> good ol' footville
[07:40] <nixternal> your family is in the sticks
[07:40] <kwwii_> no shit
[07:40] <nixternal> and then again so is mine that live in michigan
[07:40] <kwwii_> after 11 years in germany it takes a day or two for me to get the accent back
[07:41] <nixternal> my family has about 1500 acres that butt up against ted nugents property in lake county michigan..they are all militia type scarry hillbillies ;)
[07:42] <nixternal> ya, i need to send my x-wife back to europe where she was raised..i need that accent back as well ;)
[07:42] <kwwii_> hehehe, my brother in law took the inheritance from his grandmother and chromes both his Harley and the engine from his Jeep
[07:42] <nixternal> yeeeeehaw
[07:42] <kwwii_> s/chromes/chromed
[07:42] <nixternal> that is my type of people right there
[07:42] <kwwii_> you can only do that with enough bratwursts and pork steaks, I think
[07:43] <nixternal> hah
[07:47] <kwwii_> although perhaps venison sausage would be better (a big favorite in my family)
[07:48] <kwwii_> it's like eating squirrels to prove that you are a true hick
[07:48] <nixternal> lol
[07:49] <kwwii_> actually, in germany we eat venison a lot
[07:49] <kwwii_> and it is quite good
[07:50] <kwwii_> although it is more like eating bambi...the meat is much softer
[07:51] <nixternal> lol
[07:51] <nixternal> mmm deer
[07:52] <nixternal> deer 'n beer
[07:52] <nixternal> excellent combo
[07:52] <nixternal> actually anything + hacker pschorr == love for me
[07:53] <kwwii_> hehe
[07:53] <kwwii_> schmelt
[07:53] <kwwii_> (spelling?)
[07:53] <nixternal> schmelt, like the nasty fish?
[07:53] <kwwii_> fried fish you eat whole
[07:53] <kwwii_> wonderfull
[07:53] <nixternal> ewww
[07:53] <kwwii_> hehe
[07:53] <nixternal> oh, fried yes
[07:53] <kwwii_> I grew up on that
[07:53] <nixternal> whew
[07:54] <nixternal> schmelt is nothing more then fish bait
[07:54] <kwwii_> beer and schmelt
[07:54] <nixternal> you know you are a hillbilly then ;)
[07:54] <kwwii_> yepp, exactly
[07:54] <kwwii_> lol
[07:54] <nixternal> omg, my dad would bust a gut on this conversation
[07:54] <nixternal> he used to talk about cooking schmelt on a camp fire when he was a boy scout many years ago
[07:55] <kwwii_> rotfl
[07:55] <kwwii_> beautiful
[07:58] <kwwii_> Although I lived in Missouri (and couldn't drink beer at that age) when we went home to Wisconsin I could drink the bars with as long as my Dad was with me (per law, of course)
[07:58] <kwwii_> s/drink the/drink in the
[08:04] <nixternal> heh
[08:41] <kwwii_> time to cook breakfast now, get my son up, etc....be back later
[10:22] <lapo> moin
[10:32] <Madpilot> waky, do you ever do anything but nickspam?
[10:33] <Madpilot> hi lapo
[02:33] <troy_s> greets bersace
[02:33] <bersace> troy_s: hello !
[06:08] <msikma> I wish that sound engineer would visit here more often
[11:18] <lapo> hi


[09:33] <rvba> bigjools: I think the logic inside reserve() (w.r.t. your branch api-reserve-user-ip) should be done inside a form.  Better encapsulation = easier testing, easier reuse (in the UI someday).
[09:52] <dimitern> hey guys
[09:52] <dimitern> i've just filed a wishlist bug for an api/networking changes juju needs from maas
[09:52] <dimitern> https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1336217
[10:05] <breakum-binns> jtv, allenap, rvba: In the case of guess_server_address(), what do we want to do when an interface has multiple addresses?
[10:05] <gmb> Grr
[10:06]  * gmb looks at the usage…
[10:06] <bigjools> rvba: I knew you were going to say that
[10:06] <gmb> Emphatically not, actually…
[10:19] <jtv> gmb: it might be best to prefer IPv4 if there is an IPv4 address, and use an IPv6 address otherwise.
[10:20] <gmb> jtv: Right, that’s what I think too.
[10:20] <jtv> There's not all that much we can, or need to, do about policy on top of that.
[10:20] <gmb> Agreed. Thanks.
[10:23] <dimitern> gmb, jtv, bigjools, what do you think about that bug? ^^
[10:24] <gmb> dimitern: “As the Juju networking model gets closer to completion, we realized for it to work with MAAS, some changes are needed:” Doesn’t look very wishlist :)
[10:25] <dimitern> gmb, it's not :) but usually such bugs get triaged as wishlist
[10:25] <jtv> "Should"
[10:26] <gmb> dimitern: Ah, cynicism :) You’re learning…
[10:26] <bigjools> dimitern: "Juju model assumes..."  There's your bug.
[10:26] <gmb> jtv: I noticed that too.
[10:27] <dimitern> bigjools, we have a fallback for uncooperative providers or those yet to implement a way to discover the default private network - using <IP_ADDRESS>/0 as CIDR
[10:27] <jtv> dimitern: the bug isn't very clear to me... it's all things you want us to do, which may or may not fit with maas design.  Better to start with what the actual problem is.
[10:27] <dimitern> but that kinda sucks and it's best to avoid it
[10:27] <bigjools> dimitern: this is bare metal, it cannot conjure a network like you can in openstack
[10:28] <dimitern> bigjools, jtv, so let me try to explain
[10:28] <bigjools> and what jtv said - please state the problem, not the solution :)
[10:28] <dimitern> bigjools, jtv, you always *have* at least one network all nodes are on and get their IPs for br0, right?
[10:29] <bigjools> it depends on how the network admin configured it
[10:29] <jtv> I don't know about br0, but all allocated nodes will be on a network.
[10:29] <bigjools> not necessarily the same network
[10:29] <dimitern> jtv, right - the request is to make this explicitly accessible over the API
[10:29] <bigjools> this is why networks are a placement constraint
[10:29] <jtv> Make what exactly accessible over the API?
[10:29] <jtv> What aspect of the networks?
[10:30] <dimitern> i can simulate this now but creating a network with the same CIDR  MAAS uses for the instances' IPs
[10:31] <dimitern> and connect each node's primary interface's mac to it
[10:31] <dimitern> then, i can use the api to get that network's info from maas
[10:31] <AskUbuntu_> Adding Nodes to MAAS without internet connection | http://askubuntu.com/q/490297
[10:32] <jtv> Can we take a step back and go into what the assumption is that juju needs to be able to make?
[10:32] <dimitern> bigjools, jtv, so all i'm asking is for better ux, maas to create this network automatically
[10:32] <jtv> Wow, I didn't get that from the bug report.
[10:32] <bigjools> dimitern: maas is unable to make physical networks automatically
[10:32] <jtv> I think this means "discover networks automatically."  Right?
[10:33] <dimitern> i'm not talking about *creating* networks, just *describing* what's already there
[10:33] <bigjools> there is an api for that then :)
[10:33] <bigjools> anyway I am EOD
[10:34] <dimitern> bigjools, have a good evening then :)
[10:34] <jtv> dimitern: so is what you want simply "automatically discover networks"?
[10:34] <dimitern> jtv, ideally, yes
[10:34] <bigjools> dimitern: thanks :
[10:34] <bigjools> )
[10:34] <dimitern> jtv, but we don't need all of them to be created automatically, just the default one
[10:35] <jtv> "The default" is hard to tell... there may be several.
[10:35] <dimitern> jtv, so that juju can know what IP range instances get their addresses from and what network id to use when starting instances
[10:36] <jtv> You can use the API to see what networks are available.
[10:36] <jtv> Including IP ranges.
[10:36] <jtv> Right?
[10:36] <dimitern> we're moving towards being explicit about networks, without breaking the UX (now we just assume there is a private and perhaps public network, we just don't know for sure)
[10:37] <dimitern> jtv, right, but if the admin did not create any networks, while in fact there is at least one
[10:37] <dimitern> jtv, juju won't know about it and must resort to some ugly hacks
[10:37] <jtv> Well what you need for this is the NodeGroupInterface class.
[10:38] <jtv> Its naming suffers from Legacy, but the information is already available.
[10:38] <dimitern> jtv, let me check that quickly
[10:38] <jtv> Under nodegroups/<uuid>/interfaces/
[11:29] <dimitern> jtv, great! it seems that's what juju needs - we can list what interfaces are there in a nodegroup, and assume there is always at least one node group, possibly named default?
[11:35] <dimitern> erm.. named with some random uuid
[11:42] <rvba> dimitern: right, there is always at least one nodegroup;  so you can always fetch the list of get the first one.
[11:43] <dimitern> rvba, does maas distribute instances by default across node groups? (i.e. when starting an instance without placement specified)
[11:44] <rvba> dimitern: no, when there are multiple matches, one at random is selected.
[11:44] <dimitern> rvba, and more importantly, are all node groups' primary network interface (eth0) guaranteed to be on the same subnet?
[11:45] <dimitern> rvba, right, ok
[11:45] <rvba> dimitern: there is no guarantee, remember this is a view of existing physical networks.
[11:45] <rvba> But of course, if you want your nodes to be able to talk to each other, you need proper routing setup.
[11:46] <dimitern> rvba, that's what I thought yeah
[11:46] <jtv> dimitern: the admin gets to choose what networks there are, and on which clusters.  Each cluster can manage multiple networks.  A network can only be managed by one cluster.
[11:47] <dimitern> rvba, so for all sane deployments we can assume nodegroups are on the same (or mutually accessible) subnets
[11:47] <dimitern> aah
[11:48] <dimitern> "a network can only be managed by  one cluster", means for Juju different clusters can be like different  regions/AZs
[11:51] <dimitern> this might have some interesting implications..
[11:51] <jtv> Could be.  Though we also have "physical zones" which are not tied to the topology in any way.
[11:51] <jtv> But you can think of a maas of "containing" a set of clusters (a.k.a. nodegroups), and each of those "containing" some networks.
[11:52] <jtv> This doesn't tell you which networks actually have nodes, of course.  To do that, I think you'd have to match node IP addresses to networks.
[11:53] <jtv> Unfortunately we have two kinds of network that still live completely separate lives: "nodegroupinterfaces" are basically network definitions, with optionally the settings to control a DHCP server on that network.  And "networks" are user-defined entries that are only used for constraints.
[11:53] <jtv> Yes, we would like to unify those — but that'd take time to do, so has to be scheduled in.
[12:05] <dimitern> thanks for the detailed explanation jtv
[12:06] <dimitern> it definitely helps me to understand the internals and map them better to juju's model
[14:18] <jtv> I wonder how I tell South to add a required field whose value defaults to another field's value (with perhaps a backstop for blanks).
[14:18] <jtv> The only way I can think of so far is:
[14:18] <jtv> 1. Schema migration to add field, but optional.
[14:18] <jtv> 2. Data migration to populate field.
[14:18] <jtv> 3. Schema migration to make field required.
[14:23] <jtv> rvba, any ideas?  ^
[14:30] <jtv> Ah, this blog post has advice: http://www.brankovukelic.com/2013/02/south-migration-with-dynamically.html
[14:30] <jtv> Basically "lie to South."
[14:48] <rvba> jtv: the solution with the data migration seems good to me.  (I think we've done that in the past.)
[14:49] <jtv> Looks like I can combine migrations.
[15:25] <jtv> Argh.  WHY does the NodeGroup constructor still create a NodeGroupInterface?  Now there are two parameters called "name"!
[15:34] <luflores> Hi all, is there is a way I have a managed interface with DHCP that I can nailed the IPs that particular MAC ?
[15:34] <luflores> I want to have a deterministic way to assign IP address via DHCP
[15:58] <schegi_> someone here who cloud help with an cloud-inint problem during machine boot??
[16:02] <jtv> schegi_: smoser is the one who knows about cloud-init.  Doesn't seem to be here just now though.
[16:05] <schegi_> actually maybe some already encounter this issue. i got a maas master installend and then a juju node bootstrapped. when i now change the network settings on the juju knode. especially changing the main interface (putting it into a bond) manually and then reboot the system it always stucks for a couple of minutes in cloud-init-nonet[16.98]
[16:05] <schegi_> Finally it aborts with cloud-init-nonet[136.98]: gave up waiting for a network device. But afterwards all networks are up and the machine is reachable
[16:23] <schegi_> jtv, any idea where else i can ask for a solution. to me it seems like cloudinit still tries to do something with the old interface and that just does no work.
[16:49] <lutostag> does trusty maas support installing utopic as a deployment distro yet?
[16:56] <jtv> schegi_: it does sound like it...  people in #juju would know more about how juju drives cloud-init.
[16:57] <jtv> lutostag: I don't think we've tried that yet, but you'd have to import images with the "daily" label.
[16:58] <lutostag> jtv: thanks, I thought all I would need is the correct streams
[17:01] <jtv> You need the right stream, but then AFAIK we only import releases by default.


[02:14] <Pendulum> TheMuso: do you have a preference between a meeting at 2100UTC and 2200UTC (Wednesday)
[02:15] <TheMuso> Pendulum: 2200 would be much preferable, ut I can make 2100 if absolutely necessary.
[02:16] <TheMuso> Its worth noting that I am now UTC +10.
[02:16] <Pendulum> okay, so 2200 is 8AM for you?
[02:16] <TheMuso> Yes.
[02:16] <Pendulum> (I've never been quite sure what timezone you were in so that is very helpful, thanks!)
[02:16] <TheMuso> I am usually close to the point of being at the computer by then.
[02:17] <TheMuso> So actually getting to the computer and attending the meeting is no proble, :)
[02:17] <Pendulum> :)
[11:05] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/brandedonboard.png
[11:05] <AlanBell> Pendulum: ^^ like that?
[11:05] <Pendulum> ?
[11:06] <Pendulum> AlanBell: sorry, I'm missing context here
[11:08] <AlanBell> onboard with the ubuntu font and orange branding
[11:09] <Pendulum> the orange hurts
[11:09] <Pendulum> otherwise it's fine
[11:10] <Pendulum> although I suspect that people who really need high contrast (since *gasp* some people have mobility and vision problems) might not like the black on grey either
[11:10] <AlanBell> hmm, ok, I toned it down on the keys
[11:10] <Pendulum> btw, the gasp was not aimed so much at you
[11:10] <Pendulum> just the general brain parts of people that makes them assume that if you have one impairment you won't have others
[11:10] <AlanBell> yeah
[11:11] <AlanBell> I just had a thought that bringing this into the branding might unlock more Canonical people
[11:11] <Pendulum> *nods*
[11:11] <AlanBell> make it an ivanka issue
[11:11] <Pendulum> haha
[11:12] <Pendulum> I think part of the problem is that by and large the branding isn't great for disabled people
[11:12] <Pendulum> the aubrigine isn't a horrid colour choice, but I know I'm not the only person with orange issues
[11:13] <AlanBell> I would like to see more aubergine anyway
[11:14] <Pendulum> I think that's true for most people other than czajkowski ;-)
[11:14]  * AlanBell is in the same room as czajkowski
[11:15] <Pendulum> hi czajkowski! o/
[11:16] <AlanBell> sat in a dull presentation
[11:17] <Pendulum> :(
[11:20] <AlanBell> so the colours are tweakable quite easily
[11:31] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboard.png
[11:33] <AlanBell> more aubergine, but still orange on keys with nothing important on them (shift and space)
[11:33] <Pendulum> can you make the aubrigine paler?
[11:34] <Pendulum> I know that makes it not quite conform to norms for keyboard shading, but right now it doesn't have great contrast with the black
[11:34] <AlanBell> yes
[11:34] <AlanBell> which one, the one on the numbers?
[11:34] <AlanBell> or tab, return etc?
[11:37] <Pendulum> bah, I meant orange
[11:37] <Pendulum> the aubrigine is fine for me
[11:37] <AlanBell> yes, I can do
[11:37] <Pendulum> (I guess this says how good my brain function is this morning :-/ )
[12:04] <AlanBell> this isn't programming or any special magic
[12:05] <Pendulum> *nods*
[12:06] <AlanBell> just editing /usr/share/onboard/layouts/Default-Alpha.svg with Inkscape
[12:06] <AlanBell> just select keys and change the keycap colours
[12:06] <AlanBell> I wanted to do fancier stuff, but that doesn't seem to work
[12:07] <AlanBell> blending and shading and rounded corners etc
[12:07] <AlanBell> but that doesn't get rendered in onboard
[12:09] <AlanBell> I want to get the letters centered on the keycaps but I can't figure out how to do that yet
[12:10] <Pendulum> *nods*
[12:13] <AlanBell> what else needs to be done to onboard to make it look awesome?
[12:15] <AlanBell> the things at the side to switch layouts are pretty confusing
[12:15] <Pendulum> for me, the rounded corners is the biggest thing I can think of visually that would help
[12:16] <AlanBell> and when an overlay layout pops up it looks a bit of a mess
[12:16] <Pendulum> and, yes
[12:16] <Pendulum> I didn't even realise those were supposed to do that!
[12:17] <Pendulum> learn something new every day!
[12:20] <Pendulum> I'd really like some labeling on those side layouts
[12:23] <AlanBell> yeah, that should be possible
[12:24] <Pendulum> I honestly assumed they were random blobs of colour
[12:24] <Pendulum> because they don't contrast enough either
[12:25] <JanC> assuming that most people will already change their theme to something that fits their vision, ideally Onboard would use system colours somehow...?
[12:26] <Pendulum> JanC: I don't change my theme that much from default because most things the default is fine for me. It's specific colours (like the orange) that I have issues with most of the time
[12:27] <Pendulum> maybe a GUI way of changing colours
[12:27] <AlanBell> JanC: I kind of agree, however I think that requires more major surgery than I want to do right now
[12:27] <JanC> well, there is support for that in GNOME, if the theme supports it...
[12:27] <Pendulum> although I think it's probably solvable for most people without needing that
[12:27] <AlanBell> right now it is a nasty dated brown
[12:28] <Pendulum> yeah
[12:28] <JanC> AlanBell: yes, I understand that it's not simple the way Onboard works now
[12:28] <Pendulum> AFAIK, it's a semi-abandoned project that was a GSOC
[12:28] <Pendulum> (which is also why it's Ubuntu-only)
[12:28] <AlanBell> I want to update it and get it adopted properly by the design team
[12:28] <JanC> is tehre a better alternative?
[12:28] <AlanBell> really a new keyboard would be good
[12:29] <AlanBell> there is no better alternative that is *already* on the CD
[12:29] <AlanBell> not sure if there is a better alternative at all
[12:29] <Pendulum> that's something that was discussed at the last UDS
[12:29] <Pendulum> no one was sure about that
[12:29] <AlanBell> yup
[12:30] <Pendulum> I should find the person who ran that session and get him in here
[12:30] <Pendulum> (I can't remember who ran it, will look at the blueprint)
[12:30] <JanC> I guess replacing it might still be an option *if* it's proven to be better
[12:30] <AlanBell> well right now, we might be able to get new colours and font through and in to Natty
[12:31] <AlanBell> replacing it can go on the UDS agenda again
[12:31] <Pendulum> I'm planning on picking TheMuso's brain about whether the fixes to a11y in Unity that will come next cycle will get onBoard working with everything in Unity or if there's going to need to be massive stuff done to onBoard
[12:31] <AlanBell> right now the keyboard is out of scope for the design team
[12:31] <Pendulum> yeah
[12:32] <AlanBell> I want to show them that it is a brandable element
[12:32] <Pendulum> I'm all for that idea :)
[12:32] <Pendulum> john lea is supposed to be our design team contact (yes, we have one assigned to a11y)
[12:32] <Pendulum> (except for on the website stuff, obviously)
[12:33] <AlanBell> that is why I want to get the colours OK visually and I want to get some #dd4814 in there to make the design team think it belongs to them
[12:34] <Pendulum> AlanBell: can you use it for the outlines of the keys?
[12:35] <Pendulum> also, it could be used for one of the side layouts
[12:35] <Pendulum> as in, to denote one of them
[12:35] <Pendulum> because they'll be noticeable that way!
[12:36] <Pendulum> maybe use #dd4814 for one of them and one of the stand-out aubrigines for the other?
[12:37] <AlanBell> it seems to ignore stroke colours for the outlines of the keys :(
[12:38] <AlanBell> trying to figure out how it loads the SVG
[12:38] <JanC> what does it use to render SVG?
[12:38] <JanC> hm, Cairo ?
[12:41] <AlanBell> it does it key by key
[12:41] <AlanBell> load_pane_svg function in KeyboardSVG.py
[12:42] <Pendulum> JanC: yeah, it looks like it uses Cairo
[12:43] <AlanBell> it is using cairo
[12:47] <JanC> judging from the module you point to, it parses the XML itself and changes it because it has to adapt to keyboard layouts & such
[12:47] <AlanBell> KeyGTK.py does the drawing of keys
[12:48] <AlanBell> it reads positions and sizes from the XML and colours and the #ID of the key image
[12:49] <AlanBell> yay, I have the stroke colour changed
[12:54] <AlanBell> and it is now Ubuntu Orange
[12:57] <AlanBell> what is really needed is an awesome on screen keyboard that is better than whatever the iPad had which is built in to the unity layer
[12:58] <AlanBell> this is a short term improvement with the goal of getting the design team excited about on screen keyboards
[14:59] <AlanBell> Default.onboard in the layouts directory is where to tweak the background colours of the three panes
[15:26] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/onboard
[15:47]  * AlanBell has rounded rectangles \o/
[15:48] <AlanBell> full. of. awesome.
[15:52] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png
[15:52] <AlanBell> Pendulum: ^^
[15:59] <erkan^> wow!
[15:59] <erkan^> nice
[16:10] <erkan^> I want pasta this picture on my keyboard, because that is easy contrast, but how, AlanBell ?
[16:12] <AlanBell> erkan^:  https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/onboard
[16:12] <AlanBell> bzr branch that
[16:12] <AlanBell> and run ./onboard in the directory it creates
[16:13] <erkan^> ok
[16:13] <erkan^> i try
[16:13] <erkan^>     bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?
[16:13] <AlanBell> yeah
[16:14] <AlanBell> which will create an onboard folder with an executable in it which should just run
[16:17] <erkan^> and now, AlanBell ? after bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?
[16:17] <erkan^> i have installed --> bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard ?
[16:17] <erkan^> @acer-laptop:~$     bzr branch lp:~alanbell/+junk/onboard
[16:17] <erkan^> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
[16:17] <erkan^> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
[16:17] <erkan^> Branched 245 revision(s).
[16:17] <meetingology> erkan^: Error: "acer-laptop:~$" is not a valid command.
[16:22] <AlanBell> ok, good so far
[16:22] <AlanBell> cd onboard
[16:22] <AlanBell> ./onboard
[16:23] <AlanBell> I have to go get on a train in a sec
[16:23] <erkan^> very nice!!! (-: AlanBell
[16:23] <erkan^> laterss
[16:40] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I like it!
[20:10] <Pendulum> in about 50 minutes is EMEA board meeting where UndiFineD is going for membership, it would be great if we could get some people from here to cheer him on!
[20:10] <charlie-tca__> Certainly would! I gave him an endorsement
[20:11] <Pendulum> I did too :)
[20:11] <charlie-tca__> I will be there today
[20:12] <charlie-tca__> Pendulum: congratulations on your board seat!
[20:12] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: thanks :)
[20:12] <UndiFineD> Pendulum, with all the new hardware, when will you get your mecca suit ?
[20:12] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: haha. no plans for that yet. although there may be some titanium rods in my future
[20:13] <UndiFineD> I saw you had walked to the store see
[20:13] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: used my powerchair
[20:14] <Pendulum> it's just easier to say 'walked' :)
[20:14] <UndiFineD> ah
[20:14] <UndiFineD> http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/010/2/0/Mecca_Suit_Girl_by_wayner8088.jpg
[21:22] <AlanBell> bug 751891
[21:24] <charlie-tca__> Doesn't seem that important unless it becomes usable, does it?
[21:24] <AlanBell> it is
[21:25] <charlie-tca__> Will the dev update it with ubuntu-font if it is not an ubuntu specific project?
[21:25] <AlanBell> I have done it charlie-tca__
[21:25] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/awesomeonboard.png
[21:25] <AlanBell> that could be an Ubuntu patch
[21:26] <AlanBell> however the thing was created as an Ubuntu project in the first place
[21:26] <AlanBell> no idea if any other distro uses it
[21:26] <charlie-tca__> It was?
[21:26] <AlanBell> upstream is here: https://launchpad.net/onboard
[21:26] <charlie-tca__> Okay, I will confirm the bug then. I like onboard, and it would look good with an update. Just not orange, please!
[21:27] <AlanBell> charlie-tca__: I want the design team to take ownership of it
[21:27] <AlanBell> and make it work with Unity
[21:27] <charlie-tca__> ouch
[21:27] <charlie-tca__> I haven't really seen much out of them that m
[21:28] <charlie-tca__> akes me think they will do it right for accessibility
[21:28] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: onBoard was a GSOC thing that AFAIK is only used on Ubuntu
[21:28] <Pendulum> from what I can tell it was created specifically for Ubuntu
[21:28] <charlie-tca__> honestly, des
[21:28] <charlie-tca__> design team does not seem to care for accessible at all
[21:28] <Pendulum> I occasionally get questions from the gnome a11y folks about it
[21:29] <AlanBell> I don't care *why* they do it right, but if I can make the design team want a great on screen keyboard for tablets or whatever then that is great
[21:29] <Pendulum> they actually sent an e-mail to phillw and me asking about a11y on the website redesign
[21:29] <Pendulum> (today)
[21:29] <Pendulum> but I'm not sure if phillw is actually doing any Ubuntu stuff anymore
[21:30] <AlanBell> phillw has not been seen on IRC or mailing lists for over a week
[21:30] <charlie-tca__> Pendulum: if only they listened when we give input
[21:30] <Pendulum> yeah
[21:30] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: well, they're hoping to set up a skype call, so I'm hoping
[21:30] <Pendulum> AlanBell: can I copy you on my reply to them?
[21:30] <AlanBell> of course Pendulum
[21:30] <charlie-tca__> guess I better leave this alone now.
[21:33] <Pendulum> AlanBell: you should have mail
[21:33] <Pendulum> charlie-tca__: well, since they're trying now rather than after launching the site or even showing mock-ups, I am going to be hopeful
[21:34] <charlie-tca__> good luck with them
[21:35] <Pendulum> UndiFineD is up in the meeting :)
[21:41] <Pendulum> whoo hoo! well done UndiFineD!
[21:42] <UndiFineD> :)
[21:42] <charlie-tca__> Well, that was easy!
[21:42] <AlanBell> yay
[21:42] <charlie-tca__> You did it!
[21:43] <charlie-tca__> AlanBell: I have to ask, wishlist or low importance? I can get either one
[21:43] <charlie-tca__> Hard to push it too high, though
[21:46] <AlanBell> low
[21:47] <AlanBell> A cosmetic/usability issue that does not limit the functionality of an application
[21:47] <charlie-tca__> Agreed. Thanks
[22:01] <hajour_> for info.i have contact whit jmarsden he do a lot for lubuntu.i have also give trough on him what i heard what was missing for info.he had take action whit that.also jmarsden checks also on speechcontrol wiki or it is good and stay good useble for light weight programs.i also know phillw have made or still is busy whitlast part to make whole sii wiki so accessible as possible and put much time in it
[22:02]  * hajour_ always hears a lot  of info from people :)
[22:02] <hajour_> charlie-tca__,  Pendulum  AlanBell ^
[22:03] <Pendulum> ok
[22:03] <charlie-tca__> ack
[22:05] <hajour_> so he is very busy whit setting up the whole site from sii .that's what i have heard whit help from a few others
[22:37] <hajour> Pendulum,  wanted to inform you about something. i not know what ischanged by or flash programs or firefox or chromium but chromium is most worst .frame in frames causes grey squares and screen freeze and much slow down connecting.this is bad .because in netherland  and most in europe banking and task/btw go s with a system what use frame in frame.in netherland all banking is going with internet.so if people cant banking wh
[22:37] <hajour> it out problems they have no choice to go over on a other.and its not only by lubuntu also my daughters have it and they use ubuntu
[22:37] <Pendulum> hajour: can you work with UndiFineD to file bugs about that?
[22:38] <hajour> yes we can. think screenshots would most good thought
[22:39] <hajour> sorry for so long story btw
[22:39] <hajour> Pendulum, ^
[22:41] <hajour> but because i not know the technical names for it and not speak very good english i needed to  describe it to let you know
[22:41] <Pendulum> I know. You can attach screenshots to the bug report
[22:42] <AlanBell> http://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/55373759716139009
[22:43] <hajour> ok UndiFineD  go help me but he better report it i just discovered a mail from a bug i never answered to. i struggle to much with the reading.
[22:43] <Pendulum> AlanBell: eep!
[22:43] <AlanBell> indeed, I thought they were going to leave it to the last minute again
[22:43] <Pendulum> I was hoping by the end of the week
[22:43] <Pendulum> but now I'm just nervous
[22:44] <hajour> so till i have a program what works bugs report better be done by others
[22:44] <hajour> i tto Pendulum
[22:45] <hajour> -t
[22:46] <hajour> but i hope you have understanding for it.about mail the bugs it will be done by UndiFineD  .i have discovered more time bugs and UndiFineD  have mailed the bugs reports and responded
[22:46] <Pendulum> *nods*
[22:47] <hajour> because i not want it go wrong because my worse reading
[22:47] <Pendulum> hajour & UndiFineD if you file bugs that are accessibility related and are against Ubuntu, do feel free to add me to the bug
[22:47] <UndiFineD> ok
[22:47] <Pendulum> as a subscriber, I mean
[22:48] <hajour> well this one is important to all users seams to me anyway
[22:48] <hajour> that very long story i was 20 minutes busy whit typing that
[22:48] <hajour> with
[22:49] <hajour> and i hope i was enough clear btw i have done my very best on it
[22:50] <hajour> Pendulum, ^
[22:50] <Pendulum> yes
[22:51] <hajour> Pendulum, that rings you using.i wonder which way i have to take (doctors)to get that to
[22:51] <hajour> i now typing always with only 1 finger you see
[22:52] <hajour> sometimes 2 if i need shift
[22:52] <hajour> but its difficult
[22:52] <Pendulum> hajour: www.silverringsplints.com is where I got mine from, but you need to be evaluated by a type of physiotherapist for them
[22:53] <hajour> o god just walked a big spider close to me
[22:54]  * hajour is afraid of all spiders what is bigger then half size of a mouse
[22:54] <hajour> brrr
[22:55] <hajour> UndiFineD,  have catch it and thrown away the house
[22:55] <hajour> out of the house i mean
[22:56] <hajour> :S there are more
[22:59] <UndiFineD> I just threw out its partner as well, who lost 2 legs
[23:00] <UndiFineD> lets watch a movie, arachnafobia
[23:00] <hajour> grrr
[23:19] <hajour> just have read back.ok thanks for info Pendulum
[23:20] <hajour> i already had get the link from you Pendulum but not new how to get it
[23:20] <hajour> have ad the link in favourites
[23:21] <Pendulum> hajour: you might try e-mailing the company and seeing if they know of anyone in The Netherlands who they've worked with before
[23:22] <hajour> a ok yes i can do that whit help from UndiFineD thanks for the info Pendulum