[04:51] <roasted> is anybody else noticing that their task tray icons (some of them anyway) disappear when locking screen + coming back into session? I had quassel, nextcloud, and telegram up there. CTRL L'd, screen went dark, authenticated to session again and nextcloud + telegram are gone.


[04:53] <inetpro> good mornings
[05:38] <Kilos> morning all
[05:53] <inetpro> good morning Kilos, you are late
[05:57] <Kilos> ohi inetpro ya man bad head day feels like
[05:57] <Kilos> didnt want to open eyes this morning
[05:59] <Kilos> het jy gesien die outjie se lappy werk met 12.04
[05:59] <Kilos> maar soos hier, moes 3 keer instaleer
[06:22] <inetpro> yep and I noticed you getting into trouble as well
[06:23] <inetpro> for giving the man a customised rather than the official version
[06:24] <inetpro> hmm....
[06:55] <Kilos> hi Gotango
[06:55] <Gotango> Hi Kilos
[06:55] <Gotango> I booted into an older version, it said 3.2 kernel
[06:56] <Gotango> The first one had 3.5 kernel
[06:57] <Gotango> Its a small bit less hot , but still uncomfortable
[06:59] <Kilos> whew you will need to get help from the clever guys
[06:59] <Kilos> but it cant be running hotter than win7
[07:00] <Kilos> once you have data and do update/upgrade everything will work better
[07:00] <Gotango> The linux graphics drivers for this lappy are for linux mint. And i dont understand this thread it gives alot of routes that will give me headaches http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2118873
[07:00] <Kilos> linux isos arent a complete install of the os like windows is
[07:00] <Gotango> Yes its hotter and loader than win7
[07:01] <Kilos> to get the drivers you run additional and let it look for the correct ones from the correct place
[07:02] <Gotango> That will require me to have adsl
[07:02] <Kilos> linux always needs the update and first upgrade to be at its best
[07:02] <Kilos> or more data
[07:02] <Gotango> Man i wish i had a backup win7, linux works best on desktops
[07:03] <Kilos> nope all the guys run it on lappys
[07:04] <Kilos> all business peeps use lappies so they can take their work with them
[07:04] <Kilos> no one on linux channels carries a win7 lappy around
[07:05] <Kilos> your only restriction is the data prob
[07:05] <Gotango> Well they got compatible hardware ofcours
[07:05] <Kilos> grame has ubuntu running on an old hp like yours
[07:05] <Gotango> hmm , no one seems to know the true size of ubuntu
[07:06] <Kilos> your not having data is whats restricting things
[07:06] <Gotango> I guess
[07:06] <Kilos> the original cd was 730m
[07:07] <Kilos> in my understanding ubuntu installs the basic os, and then the update/upgrade completes everything
[07:08] <Kilos> if you can go plug in on someones adsl or uncapped mobile you can do it
[07:08] <Gotango> Just this one issue i got with the heat/noise, everything else works
[07:09] <Kilos> it will improve when you have the correct drivers
[07:09] <Kilos> did you type in additional in the dash
[07:09] <Kilos> dash=launcher thing
[07:10] <Kilos> then let it look for what is needed but dont install just give the info here
[07:10] <Gotango> It wants to download
[07:10] <Gotango> oh
[07:10] <Kilos> nope it will first look what is needed then give you the choice to go ahead
[07:11] <Gotango> Downloading package indexes failed, please check your network status. Most drivers will not be available.
[07:11] <Kilos> thats because you have done sudo apt-get update
[07:11] <Kilos> havent
[07:12] <Gotango> So i do it now ?
[07:12] <Gotango> I got 80MB left i think
[07:13] <Kilos> its 20m or a bit less
[07:13] <Gotango> Ok will do it now
[07:16] <Gotango> It says : Reading package lists... Done , and nothing after that
[07:16] <Kilos> i didnt think. if you had have told me what you needed for web work i could have installed them here before making the dvd
[07:17] <Kilos> ok now do additional and see what drivers are needed
[07:17] <Gotango> yeah and included a windows backup too. But we cant go back
[07:17] <Gotango> okay
[07:18] <Gotango> Downloading package indexes failed, please check your network status. Most drivers will not be available.
[07:18] <Kilos> now you will see mysql in synaptic
[07:18] <Gotango> Still the same
[07:19] <Kilos> but the first upgrade is needed to make everything work kiff
[07:19] <Kilos> but thats gonna be 100m or so
[07:19] <Kilos> what the same no mysql?
[07:20] <Kilos> i told you last night the update only sees what is available. it doesnt update and running apps
[07:20] <Kilos> upgrade will upgrade everything needed
[07:20] <Kilos> s/and/any
[07:21] <Gotango> I dont care about mysql and php runtime now, i just want ubuntu to use less of what its using now
[07:22] <Gotango> I disabled upgrades
[07:22] <Kilos> yes but one can see how big they would be in cli
[07:23] <Kilos> run sudo apt-get upgrade and it will tell you how much data will be used
[07:23] <Kilos> then you say no
[07:24] <Kilos> you have the basic os running there now
[07:24] <Kilos> like with a car that should have a turbo
[07:24] <Gotango> Reading package lists... Done
[07:24] <Gotango> Building dependency tree
[07:24] <Gotango> Reading state information... Done
[07:24] <Gotango> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[07:24] <Kilos> the turbo only comes with upgrading
[07:25] <Gotango> lol , i dont want a turbo , i want a family car
[07:25] <Kilos> hasnt there been a popup of update manager
[07:26] <Gotango> Nope
[07:26] <Kilos> ok its like a basic car without the brakes connected then
[07:27] <Gotango> lol, more like an engine without oil atm
[07:27] <Gotango> Can blow at anytime
[07:27] <Kilos> do additional lets see
[07:27] <Kilos> it wont blow its not windows
[07:28] <Gotango> Downloading package indexes failed, please check your network status. Most drivers will not be available.
[07:28] <Gotango> I guess
[07:28] <Kilos> maybe the repo isnt good
[07:28] <Kilos> there are many
[07:29] <Kilos> open synaptic
[07:29] <Gotango> ok
[07:30] <Kilos> then tick settings repositories
[07:30] <Gotango> ok
[07:30] <Kilos> what does it say by download from
[07:31] <Gotango> Main Server
[07:31] <Kilos> what does it show i should say
[07:31] <Kilos> lemme just check if its down
[07:31] <Gotango> ok
[07:32] <Gotango> Btw i unchecked everything in that list yesterday
[07:33] <Kilos> no man i told you only to change the update one to never
[07:33] <Kilos> nothing else
[07:33] <Kilos> youve killed something that sees the repos
[07:33] <Gotango> Oops
[07:33] <Gotango> Should i check them
[07:33] <Kilos> open update manager
[07:34] <Kilos> and go settings at the bottom
[07:34] <Gotango> ok
[07:34] <Kilos> wait im opening it to see
[07:35] <Kilos> in updates at the top
[07:35] <Kilos> install updates from
[07:36] <Kilos> tick the top 2 and bottom one
[07:36] <Gotango> ok
[07:36] <Gotango> I cant its disabled
[07:36] <Kilos> where it says automaticcaly check use never
[07:37] <Kilos> ok go to ubuntu software
[07:37] <Gotango> The 4 checkboxes are disabled
[07:37] <Kilos> top left
[07:37] <Gotango> ok
[07:37] <Gotango> All boxes there are unchecked
[07:37] <Kilos> tick the first 4
[07:38] <Gotango> ok done
[07:38] <Kilos> then go toother software
[07:38] <Gotango> Ok
[07:39] <Kilos> tick first 4
[07:39] <Kilos> then go see if updates is enabled again
[07:39] <Gotango> there are 6 already ticked
[07:40] <Gotango> the 5th is remastersys and the 6th is opera stuff
[07:40] <Kilos> where?
[07:40] <Gotango> in Other Software
[07:40] <Kilos> untick the remastersys and the last one
[07:40] <Gotango> ok
[07:41] <Gotango> Done
[07:41] <Kilos> remastersys is used to make dvds of your running os
[07:41] <Gotango> yes updates are enabled
[07:41] <Gotango> ok
[07:41] <Kilos> ok and check for updates must be never
[07:42] <Kilos> you will do the checking for updates via cli
[07:42] <Gotango> Yes already set. What about the 4 checkboxes and the other stuff in Updates
[07:43] <Kilos> you must just go mad and tick and untick stuff that you dont know what its for
[07:44] <Gotango> lol, i looked for things that will save me system resources sorry
[07:44] <Kilos> the first second and 4th must be ticked
[07:44] <Kilos> np most new peeps make mistakes
[07:44] <Kilos> but rather ask here before you do things
[07:45] <Kilos> linux and windows arent the same
[07:45] <Gotango> Will do
[07:45] <Kilos> ok if you done there close update manager
[07:45] <Gotango> ok
[07:45] <Kilos> the do sudo apt-get update
[07:45] <Kilos> update manager is the gui for it
[07:47] <Gotango> Seems to be working
[07:49] <Kilos> hi theblazehen
[07:49] <theblazehen> hey kilos :)
[07:50] <theblazehen> that was fast, lol
[07:52] <Kilos> ok now do sudo apt-get update
[07:53] <Kilos> but dont say yes to upgrading
[07:54] <Kilos> it must have told you how much it fetched and in how much time
[07:54] <Gotango> Its already downloading stuff packages in terminal
[07:55] <Gotango> Didnt give options
[07:55] <Kilos> eeek
[07:55] <Kilos> pull the modem
[07:56] <Kilos> didnt it even say how much it must get?
[07:56] <Gotango> I did sudo apt-get update
[07:56] <Kilos> you have done that
[07:56] <Gotango> and it started downloading
[07:56] <Kilos> thats to see what is available
[07:56] <Gotango> Isnt that the 20mb one?
[07:56] <Kilos> it will go quicker
[07:57] <Kilos> yes
[07:57] <Kilos> should tell you fetched so much in so long
[07:58] <Gotango> Biggest number i see here is 4709 kb
[07:58] <Kilos> why did you do sudo apt-get update again?
[07:58] <Gotango> Its downloading 4 packages now
[07:59] <Kilos> in update they dont get downloaded
[08:00] <Kilos> upgrade downloads them and installs
[08:00] <Gotango> huh , should i disconnect ?
[08:00] <Kilos> dont get mixed up with update upgrade
[08:00] <Gotango> dunno upgrade and update sounds similar
[08:01] <Kilos> if you did update then you can leave it
[08:01] <Gotango> Its almost at 100%
[08:01] <Kilos> you must concentrate when you are given commands
[08:02] <Kilos> easiest is to copy paste them
[08:03] <Gotango> Now it keeps on going , should i disconnect ?
[08:03] <Kilos> what does it say it is doing
[08:03] <Kilos> if its at 100% downloads its now installing
[08:04] <Gotango> First it loaded some packages , now its loading translations
[08:04] <Kilos> you got your commands mixed somewhere
[08:04] <Kilos> oh the language stuff
[08:04] <Kilos> thats also helps it run better
[08:05] <Gotango> Isnt the Update to show the packages in synaptics
[08:05] <Kilos> yes
[08:06] <Kilos> but you only need to do it once for starters
[08:06] <Gotango> So i should be doing sudo apt-get update right
[08:06] <Kilos> then once a month to keep up with security upgrades
[08:07] <Gotango> I am doing it once now
[08:07] <Kilos> have you not done sudo apt-get update already
[08:07] <Kilos> you were supposed to do that after we fixed update manager
[08:07] <Gotango> Is the Upgrade command the 20mb one
[08:07] <Kilos> no
[08:08] <Kilos> that will fetch everything that needs upgrading
[08:08] <Gotango> Never did Update , got errors you helped fix
[08:08] <Kilos> update sees what is available
[08:08] <Kilos> upgrade fetches what the pc needs
[08:09] <Gotango> I'm confused , what is the 20mb one Upgrade or Update ?
 the do sudo apt-get update that was at 9.45
[08:09] <Kilos> the was meant to be then
[08:10] <Kilos> update
[08:10] <Gotango> Thats what i am doing now
[08:10] <Kilos> ok let that run through
[08:11] <Kilos> it shouldnt fetch and  install stuff
[08:11] <Kilos> it just sees what is available
[08:12] <Kilos> and the 20m is to put that info in your synaptic and update manager
[08:13] <Gotango> If it wont fetch and install stuff , why let it waste data
[08:13] <Gotango> I'm gona disconnect the modem
[08:14] <Kilos> because you need that info so you can see stuff in synaptic
[08:15] <Kilos> its not wasted
[08:16] <Kilos> and info about additional drivers
[08:17] <Kilos> with windows you buy cds to install the extra programs you need
[08:17] <Kilos> ubuntu downloads them
[08:17] <Kilos> ai!
[08:19] <Kilos> and now?
[08:20] <Gotango> disconnected
[08:22] <Gotango> I'm confused, dunno whats what here. Got a headache from this fan noise
[08:25] <Kilos> did it finished apt-get update?
[08:25] <Kilos> relax and take 10 deep breathes
[08:26] <Kilos> just remember linux is completely different to windows
[08:26] <Gotango> Nope i pulled the plug
[08:26] <Kilos> so forget or put aside everything you use to do on windows and learn the linux way of doing things
[08:27] <Kilos> just remember when it is busy installing dont pull the plug you will crash it because of some half installed package
[08:28] <Kilos> did you take 10 deep breaths?
[08:28] <Kilos> tell me when you have
[08:28] <Gotango> I'm used to knowing the size of whatever i'm installing.
[08:28] <Kilos> you will
[08:29] <Kilos> if you install anything in synaptic it first tells you how much it needs to download before you accept
[08:29] <Gotango> Why will it crash, ubuntu should delete the old downloded stuff and load the new ones like any other OS
[08:29] <Kilos> forget used to for starters
[08:30] <Kilos> its like with windows when there is a registry file missing because of a bad install or something
[08:30] <Gotango> ok
[08:30] <Kilos> write down this command
[08:30] <Gotango> What now
[08:30] <Kilos> sudo touch /forcefsck
[08:31] <Kilos> write it down
[08:31] <Gotango> ok
[08:31] <Kilos> if something isnt running lekker then you do that command and reboot and ubuntu does a file system check to fix the errors
[08:32] <Kilos> same as chkdsk
[08:33] <Kilos> ok now go mow someones lawn or something so you can make some bucks and get more data
[08:34] <Gotango> That command does nothing
[08:34] <Kilos> see you must listen
[08:35] <Gotango> I thought you meant type it in terminal
[08:36] <Kilos> yes thats right
[08:36] <Kilos> but i told you on rebooting it will check
[08:37] <Kilos> that command is now in the memory so will run on reboot
[08:37] <Gotango> Oh i thought it will automatically reboot
[08:37] <Kilos> no
[08:37] <Gotango> So now i reboot
[08:37] <Kilos> to make the pc reboot you can type in sudo reboot
[08:37] <Kilos> you dont have to now
[08:38] <Kilos> everything is working still
[08:38] <Gotango> ok, anyway i downloaded ubuntu-tweak last night
[08:38] <Kilos> for interests sake you can open update manager and it will tell you how many megs are needed and what it will upgrade
[08:39] <Gotango> I want a Xubuntu type theme, or old gnome 2 type theme
[08:39] <Kilos> you can do that in synaptic by install
[08:39] <Kilos> um
[08:39] <Kilos> lemme see
[08:39] <Gotango> I hate this transparent theme
[08:40] <Kilos> i dont know what that is
[08:40] <Kilos> you can most likely change it in system settings
[08:41] <Gotango> I mean i hate the transparency effect and glowing icons in the base unity theme
[08:41] <Gotango> Animations too
[08:41] <Gotango> Nope i cant change it there
[08:41] <Kilos> hi henkj_
[08:42] <Kilos> Maaz, google how to turn off animations in 12.04
[08:42] <Maaz> Kilos: "12.04 - disable animation - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/152392/disable-animation :: "How to disable all Unity animations? - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/138622/how-to-disable-all-unity-animations :: "12.04 - How to change the level of animation in Ubuntu 12.10? - Ask ..." http://askubuntu.com/questions/211300/how-to-change-the-
[08:42] <Maaz> level-of-animation-in-ubuntu-12-10 :: "How to Disable GTK Animations in Ubuntu 12.04.1 - S…
[08:42] <Gotango> ok thanks
[08:43] <Kilos> you can install xubuntu-desktop but thats gonna be many megs
[08:44] <Kilos> over 100 im sure
[08:44] <Kilos> 301
[08:45] <Kilos> thats a completely differnt gui
[08:45] <Gotango> lol, compiz are for the 3D unity. I dont want that
[08:45] <Gotango> Yes i wanted Xubuntu
[08:46] <Gotango> A basic windows xp style UX is all i want
[08:46] <Kilos> 301m download and it will install there and you can choose which one to boot from
[08:47] <Kilos> with ubuntu you can install a few different guis and choose at boot time which one
[08:47] <Gotango> Can it be compressed in a zip to say 150mb ?
[08:48] <Kilos> it is already zipped
[08:48] <Gotango> okay
[08:48] <Kilos> installing does the extraction andinstall
[08:48] <Gotango> Which GUIS are there to choose from
[08:50] <Kilos> kubuntu xubuntu lubuntu
[08:51] <Kilos> but around 300m download for each one
[08:51] <Gotango> And all .deb programs will work with Xubuntu
[08:51] <Kilos> yes
[08:51] <Gotango> Good
[08:52] <Gotango> Will try to get my hands on Xubuntu then in a month or two
[08:52] <Kilos> first try disable animation and the transparecies things and give unity a fait trial
[08:52] <Kilos> fair
[08:53] <Gotango> they say one can only disable animations in some file in ubuntu then that file has to be recomplied to make the changes permanent
[08:53] <Kilos> you like someone that has a fiat and buys a ferrari but then wants to buy something else immediately because you arent used to it
[08:54] <Kilos> what animations do you see?
[08:54] <Gotango> lol true
[08:54] <Gotango> The dash animations and window and workspaces animations
[08:55] <Gotango> plus the icons animations
[08:55] <Kilos> those show you what is working at the moment
[08:55] <Kilos> or what needs attention
[08:55] <Kilos> if one starts flashing go see whats happening there
[08:56] <Kilos> it means something
[08:56] <Gotango> Why cant it just flash in a different color instead of having to move the world
[08:56] <Kilos> lol
[08:56] <Kilos> maybe they can be changed some i havent bothered
[08:57] <Gotango> No luck in the forums on that
[08:57] <Kilos> i hated unity to start with but after setting my mind to give it a fair trial for 2 weeks i started enjoying it
[08:58] <Gotango> So i want a basic theme i can install using ubuntu-tweak
[08:58] <Kilos> i dont use that tweak
[08:58] <Kilos> you need to read up on it
[08:58] <Kilos> but be careful just changing lots of stuff at once
[08:59] <Kilos> do one thing at a time
[09:00] <Kilos> i go cut hair quick
[09:00] <Gotango> I already registered at http://gnome-look.org , lots of themes there but dunno a theme thats similar to Xubuntu like
[09:00] <Gotango> Okay take care
[10:21] <Kilos> back on win 98 to make a bootable floppy with 2tb firmware
[10:43] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[10:43]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[10:47] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[10:48] <Kilos> Maaz, ty
[10:48] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[10:49] <Gotango> Wb Kilos , how was the hair cut
[10:50] <Kilos> ty. all gone!  beard moustache and everything
[10:51] <Gotango> Haha , you feel like a new man now
[10:51] <Kilos> nearly
[10:52] <Gotango> Its good to freshen up every now and then . Does wonders for the soul
[10:52] <Kilos> lol
[10:54] <Gotango> Well i will always feel like crap until Xubuntu i hope calms this lappies heat
[10:54] <Kilos> and with win7 it didnt get hot as well?
[10:55] <Kilos> find that hard to believe
[10:55] <Kilos> 12.04 runs better here than win7
[10:55] <Kilos> dont forget you havent got the graphics drivers yet
[10:56] <Kilos> so no benefit from graphics memory
[10:56] <Gotango> Only the fan blew a bit fast , but not produce as much heat as ubutnu does, the heat is insane
[10:57] <Gotango> I dont think graphics drivers will work
[10:57] <Kilos> run additional in dash and see what is available
[10:57] <Kilos> might be more than just graphics needed
[10:58] <Gotango> It found drivers
[10:59] <Kilos> give me the file names let me see if they in the repos and how big they are
[11:01] <Gotango> ok
[11:02] <Gotango> ATI/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics driver
[11:03] <Gotango> ATI/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics driver (post-release updates)
[11:04] <Gotango> 3D-accelerated proprietary graphics driver for ATI cards.
[11:04] <Gotango> This driver is required to fully utilise the 3D potential of some ATI graphics cards, as well as provide 2D acceleration of newer cards.
[11:06] <Kilos> i dont see them
[11:06] <Kilos> Maaz, google ATI/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics driver for 12.04
[11:06] <Maaz> Kilos: "BinaryDriverHowto/ATI - Community Ubuntu Documentation" https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI :: "12.04 - Cannot install "ATI/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics driver ..." http://askubuntu.com/questions/193140/cannot-install-ati-amd-proprietary-fglrx-graphics-driver-systemerror :: "ati - FLGRX (AMD Catalyst) driver issues in Ubuntu 12.04 -
[11:06] <Maaz> Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/142627/flgrx-amd-catalyst-driver-issues-in-ubunt…
[11:06] <Gotango> Thats what is shows
[11:07] <Kilos> the best is always to let the additional tool do the work
[11:07] <Kilos> getting stuff from sites often causes probs
[11:08] <Kilos> normally the additional tools thing doesnt try an install and fail
[11:08] <Kilos> but i cant see the size for you sorry
[11:09] <Gotango> Damn, i wanted the size
[11:09] <Kilos> most likely 100m or so
[11:10] <Kilos> or even bigger
[11:10] <Gotango> ok
[11:11] <Gotango> I see fglrx in synaptics but no ATI with it
[11:12] <Kilos> fglrx-updates is 51 meg
[11:12] <Kilos> you should see sizes there
[11:14] <Kilos> if you tick on the file you get readout below of what it does
[11:16] <Kilos> looks like ati are still developing lots of stuff
[11:30] <Gotango> Damn, i cant even run java apps, ubuntu crashes
[11:31] <Kilos> they arent installed or you have something that runs them not installed
[11:31] <Kilos> look in synaptic at java stuff
[11:32] <Gotango> Open JDK was preinstalled.  Atleast i will know i'm in a less graphics intensive environment
[11:48] <Kilos> the xubuntu-desktop adds the gui. everything else is the same
[11:48] <Kilos> but as i say at the cost of 301m data
[11:50] <Gotango> Thats about R40 in data
[11:50] <Kilos> ah
[11:51] <Kilos> i get the 8ta 2+1 bundle and stretch it for 2 months
[11:51] <Gotango> Is Xubuntu like the unity 2D shell program
[11:51] <Kilos> do upgrades after 11pm with the +1
[11:51] <Kilos> completely different interface
[11:52] <Kilos> my son uses kubuntu which he prefers over all other
[11:52] <Gotango> okay, i dunno what that pricing is
[11:52] <Kilos> and works full time with windows
[11:52] <Kilos> R149 for the 2+1
[11:53] <Gotango> So thats for a gig
[11:53] <Kilos> the smaller bundles you buy the more you pay per meg
[11:53] <Kilos> 2g +1g after 11pm till 5am
[11:54] <Kilos> so 3gig in all
[11:54] <Gotango> Hmm interesting, i dunno if 8ta got 3g towers here
[11:54] <Kilos> telkom must have
[11:55] <Gotango> Only vodacom pics up 3g here
[11:55] <Gotango> I will see if i can get a telkom mobile sim card and check if i pick up 3g
[11:56] <Kilos> there is a special on with the telkom sims now
[11:56] <Kilos> R49 and free 200m data monthly for a year
[11:57] <Gotango> Is that a monthly rate of R49
[11:57] <Kilos> nope once of
[11:57] <Gotango> oh ok
[11:57] <Kilos> for the sim
[11:57] <Kilos> best deal out methinks
[11:57] <Gotango> probably at special stores
[11:58] <Kilos> all the peeps have them like checkers clicks etc
[11:58] <Kilos> post office as well
[11:59] <Gotango> If i buy a telkom mobile sim and i dont pick up 3g i will be withou internet for a month lol
[12:00] <Gotango> Btw why are the upgrades so large
[12:03] <Kilos> you can check the telkom coverage map or fone them and they will tell you
[12:04] <Kilos> because there are lots of security upgrades and new kernels and so on
[12:05] <Kilos> dont forget with win you buy another dvd to install office. libreoffice is included in your install. but needs upgrading to make it a full package
[12:05] <Kilos> and all it costs is data
[12:06] <Kilos> look at windows prices and see what it costs to equal what ubuntu supplies at the cost of some data
[12:06] <Gotango> Ya , i guess open source aint so free afterall lol
[12:06] <Kilos> data costs
[12:07] <Kilos> peeps with uncapped internet score heavy
[12:07] <Kilos> its only mobile peeps that suffer
[12:07] <Kilos> i think mweb offers uncapped mobile for R149 or something
[12:08] <Gotango> yeah the adsl guys are rolling in data dollers
[12:09] <Kilos> if you already are paying for a phone line then adsl is good with mweb bundles
[12:09] <Kilos> mobile is the killer
[12:09] <Gotango> That must be on contract
[12:10] <Gotango> Phone lines been cut for years here. Mobile is the only option here
[12:10] <Kilos> Maaz, google mweb prepaid mobile
[12:10] <Maaz> Kilos: "••• MWEB 3GB Prepaid ADSL ADSL Account - Hellkom.co.za" http://www.hellkom.co.za/isp-prices/adsl-9645-MWEB-3GB-Prepaid-ADSL-R79-per-month.htm :: "MWEB mobile data prices revealed - MyBroadband" http://mybroadband.co.za/news/broadband/90875-mweb-mobile-data-prices-revealed.html :: "Mobile data – cheapest prepaid, month to month products"
[12:10] <Maaz> http://mybroadband.co.za/news/broadband/91727-mobile-data-cheapest-prepaid-month-to-month-products.ht…
[12:10] <Kilos> yeah here too
[12:10] <Kilos> Maaz, google Mobile data – cheapest prepaid, month to month products
[12:10] <Maaz> Kilos: "200 MB of Free Mobile Data for the new Google Nexus 7 Tablet ..." http://www.t-mobile.com/landing/free-mobile-internet-data.html :: "Prepaid Cell Phone Plans - Unlimited Prepaid Wireless | Boost Mobile" http://www.boostmobile.com/shop/plans/monthly-unlimited/50/ :: "Mobile data – cheapest prepaid, month to month products"
[12:10] <Maaz> http://mybroadband.co.za/news/broadband/91727-mobile-data-cheapest-prepaid-month-to-month-products.html :: "Prepaid Phones…
[12:15] <Gotango> I think thats mostly for existing adsl customers though
[12:15] <Kilos> they have sim cards as well
[12:15] <Kilos> mobile isnt adsl
[12:16] <Gotango> I mean they only give those sims to there existing customers
[12:17] <Gotango> MWEB released its mobile data prices today, which start at R79 per month for 2GB of data on a month to month basis for existing Mweb customers.
[12:17] <Kilos> there you go
[12:17] <Kilos> oih existing
[12:17] <Gotango> Would be the same for Afrihost
[12:18] <Gotango> Those are some insanly cheap prices, makes sense they will only give it to existing customers
[12:26] <Gotango> Now the big problems starts
[12:27] <Gotango> Have to turn the lappy off for a few hours. I cant do anything on this OS now
[12:28] <Gotango> The heat is too much
[12:51] <Symmetria> sup
[15:35] <Kilos> hmm...
[16:04] <Kilos> wb Gotango
[16:06] <Gotango> Ty Kilos
[16:07] <Kilos> have you and the lappy cooled down now?
[16:07] <Kilos> i dont understans the getting hot thing
[16:07] <Kilos> normally its from dirty fans and so on. blocked heatsink on cpe cooler etc
[16:08] <Gotango> I found a way to open the lappy. Blew out some dust and cleaned around the fan, but couldnt open the whole thing. I didnt study rocket science
[16:08] <Kilos> can one see a fan in a lappy?
[16:09] <Gotango> Its a bit softer now , still hot though
[16:09] <Kilos> can one remove the keyboard and blow in there with compressed air
[16:09] <Gotango> Yes
[16:09] <Kilos> you need to get compressed air at a garage then or have you got a compressor
[16:09] <Gotango> But i dont have that , rolled some paper into a tube and blew out what i could
[16:10] <Kilos> with your mouth?
[16:10] <Gotango> Yes with my mouth
[16:10] <Gotango> Nope dont got compressed air
[16:11] <Kilos> you just go to a garage ask them for an old valve from a bust tube and put that in the airline and use that
[16:11] <Kilos> thats how i do mine
[16:11] <Kilos> but i have my own compressor
[16:12] <Kilos> your lungs dont have the power to do a good job
[16:13] <Gotango> lucky you then. I cant do that though taking the lappy out like that, will maybe find a bicycle pump and see what happens
[16:13] <Kilos> no garage nearby?
[16:14] <Kilos> oh another thing
[16:14] <Gotango> Nope, about 2 miles away
[16:14] <Kilos> dont libraries let you use their internet
[16:14] <Kilos> they should have wifi and adsl connections
[16:15] <Kilos> you got a bicycle?
[16:15] <Kilos> or even a spurs or coffee shop
[16:16] <Kilos> pay for a cup of coffee and get their wifi password and use it to do the upgrade'
[16:16] <Gotango> Its not a peaceful place to carry around something like a laptop
[16:17] <Kilos> peceful in what way?
[16:17] <Gotango> I dont know about places like that
[16:17] <Kilos> peaceful
[16:17] <Kilos> my sister goes to a coffe shop with her tablet and download stacks for the price of a cup of coffee
[16:18] <Gotango> Alot of crime here
[16:18] <Kilos> aha
[16:20] <Gotango> Damn, i was so stupid, lost almost everything i had for this
[16:21] <Kilos> like what?
[16:22] <Gotango> Took me 7 months to collect all the runtimes and programs needed to run and create my apps. I lost that
[16:26] <Gotango> With adsl one could probably download the same amount of stuff in 2 hours
[16:28] <Kilos> whew
[16:29] <Kilos> i thought you were saving it to your sisters cell
[16:29] <Kilos> but you will only need them if you go back to windows
[16:29] <Kilos> they dont work on linux
[16:30] <Kilos> linus systems have their own
[16:30] <Gotango> Yes i did save my apps to the memory card its now on the pc again. I mean the mysql, php, appengine kind of programs that made them
[16:31] <Gotango> They will work on linux , its made with the same programming language
[16:32] <Gotango> Like a program written in python on windows will work with the python interpreter on linux aswell
[16:51] <Kilos> ah
[16:54] <not_found> good evening irc
[16:55] <Kilos> ohi not_found lost again
[16:55] <not_found> aren't we all?
[16:55] <Kilos> na
[16:55] <Kilos> you only lost when no one loves you
[16:55] <Gotango> Hey not_found
[16:57] <Gotango> True Kilos many are riding that boat
[16:58] <not_found> alo Gotango
[17:04] <Kilos> hi psychicist
[17:04] <Kilos> not_found, hows things young man
[17:05] <psychicist> hi Kilos
[17:05] <psychicist> hi not_found
[17:05] <Gotango> hi psychicist
[17:08] <not_found> alive... slightly better than yesterday
[17:09] <psychicist> hi Gotango
[17:10] <not_found> o/ psychicist
[17:13] <Kilos> ai! neelsie i told you what to do
[17:13] <Kilos> eat less dates and drink less camel milk
[17:16] <not_found> didn't have time today to poison myself was in bed sleeping mostly :p
[17:16] <Kilos> ai!
[17:32] <Kilos> you the one with the bad connection tonight
[17:33] <Gotango> Kilos do you know how to install plugins in Gedit
[17:33] <not_found> seems so
[17:33] <Kilos> what you need plugins for Gotango
[17:34] <Kilos> you do funny things hey
[17:34] <Kilos> WAYTTD
[17:35] <Gotango> Its for syntax highlighting and auto-tabs . I want a similar editor to windows notepad++
[17:35] <Kilos> have a look at nano
[17:35] <Gotango> WAYTTD ? whats that
[17:36] <Kilos> what file do you want to edit
[17:36] <Kilos> what are you trying to do
[17:36] <Gotango> All web developers programming languages, like javascript, php, html, css etc
[17:36] <Kilos> what file do you want to edit
[17:37] <Kilos> you use sudo nano "path to file"
[17:37] <Kilos> type in terminal man nano
[17:37] <Gotango> okay
[17:38] <Kilos> normally man pages are difficult to understand for some peeps
[17:38] <Gotango> No thats command line i want a gui
[17:38] <Kilos> man type in man nano
[17:38] <Kilos> that is the manual page
[17:39] <Kilos> user guide thing
[17:39] <Gotango> man nano ?
[17:39] <Gotango> oh
[17:39] <Kilos> yes
[17:39] <Kilos> man stands for manual
[17:39] <Kilos> but normally gedit does everything
[17:40] <Gotango> I want the syntax highlight plugin for Gedit though. I cant see where to install plugins
[17:41] <Kilos> someone else must help you with that . i thought gedit did it
[17:42] <Kilos> maybe gedit needs upgrading
[17:42] <Kilos> sudo aptitude reinstall gedit
[17:43] <Gotango> Okay
[17:44] <Kilos> but i use nano for the stuff i need to modify
[17:44] <Kilos> and need help always with what to do
[17:44] <Kilos> like you can change the boot splash screen to show text
[17:45] <Gotango> I think thats something different than what i wana do though
[17:45] <Gotango> I just wana color my code so its easy to read
[17:46] <Kilos> yeah but i think nano can do them programming files
[17:46] <Kilos> ya nano shows all that funny stuff
[17:47] <Kilos> not_found, you clever okes must help me man
[17:47] <Gotango> Does nano have a gui
[17:47] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[17:47] <Kilos> yes
[17:47] <Kilos> shows coloured stuff with funny commands and characters
[17:47] <Gotango> how to open the gui
[17:48] <Kilos> sudo nano and the path to the file
[17:48] <Kilos> like /home/tango/Desktop/filename
[17:48] <Gotango> Hmm , i just wana right click on the file and set the default program to open it
[17:48]  * not_found isn't one of the clever ones :p
[17:48] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[17:49] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[17:49] <magespawn> howdy all
[17:49] <Gotango> not type in a path to the file , besides i got many files
[17:49] <Gotango> Hi magespawn
[17:49] <not_found> afaik gedit will highlight correctly if it knows what type of file it is... so if it sees .py at the end it knows it is python and syntax highlighting for python will work etc
[17:49] <Kilos> ok then right click and choose open with then look for nano and select it . i know gedit is there
[17:50] <Gotango> Wait it works now in Gedit after i reinstalled it  :)
[17:51] <Gotango> My python file is highlighted
[17:51] <Kilos> see thats one of the reasons you need to do sudo apt-get upgrade
[17:51] <Kilos> lots of things needed upgrading
[17:51] <Kilos> reinstall with aptitude gets the bit extra thats needed
[17:51] <Gotango> lol i guess so Kilos
[17:52] <Gotango> Thanks too not_found
[17:52] <Kilos> not_found, magespawn Gotango is new to ubuntu. 3 days now
[17:53] <Gotango> Well i wish i can know the size of that upgrade first
[17:53] <not_found> apt-get has super cow powers
[17:53] <Kilos> im not sure but there has been an 80m update here since i made the dvd
[17:54] <Gotango> That i can live with Kilos
[17:54] <magespawn> i thought that was so funny the first time i ran up against tthat
[17:54] <Kilos> not_found, apt-get is a long command for reinstall
[17:54] <Kilos> yeah the super cow thing
[17:55] <Kilos> not_found, aptitude is safer for new peeps imo
[17:55] <Kilos> and more user friendly
[17:55] <Kilos> and gives you the y or n choice to go ahead
[17:55] <not_found> I doubt is is safer or more user friendly
[17:55] <Kilos> superfly, help
[17:56] <not_found> and this discussion has happened before and will happen again
[17:56] <Kilos> also if you want to upgrade aptitude does kernels too where apt-get doesnt
[17:56] <not_found> afaik if you sudo apt-get upgrade you get to say y/n and it tells you how big the download is etc
[17:56] <not_found> apt-get does upgrade kernels
[17:57] <Kilos> great then Gotango
[17:57] <Kilos> sudo apt-get upgrade
[17:57] <not_found> indeed after installing 13.10 the first updates installs a newer kernel
[17:57] <Kilos> and when it shows how much you need to download you can choose no if its too much
[17:57] <not_found> yes...
[17:58] <not_found> if you install a specific application and there are additional dependencies it does the same
[17:58] <not_found> you can see what and how much and you can say NO!!
[17:58] <Kilos> no man apt-get upgrade doesnt do kernel on 12.04 your update manager then opens
[17:59] <not_found> >.<
[17:59] <Kilos> good then he can use apt-get upgrade and it wont want to do kernels
[17:59] <Kilos> he dont have data to play with
[17:59] <not_found> with the update packs for 12.04 because it is LTS it works differently
[17:59] <Kilos> ah
[17:59] <not_found> just because there is a new kernel doesn't mean you want or need it
[18:00] <not_found> if your system works on the old kernel and there isn't a security reason it doesn't update by default
[18:00] <Gotango> I booted from kernel 3.5 first , then chose kernel 3.2 to boot from , cause i thought its less heavy on the system
[18:00] <Kilos> well we got him on 12.04 because of longer support and being stable with fewer updates
[18:00] <not_found> but you can with sudo apt-get dist-upgrade if you want
[18:00] <Kilos> no he dont need newer kernel
[18:00] <Gotango> Do i really need a bigger kernel
[18:00] <not_found> just saying
[18:00] <Kilos> no data
[18:01] <not_found> and 12.04 isn't neceserally more stable than any other release, just gets supported longer
[18:01] <Kilos> not bigger just newer and more efficient
[18:01] <not_found> if someones wants stable install debian
[18:01] <not_found> :p
[18:01] <Kilos> when you upgrade to newer kernel the old one becomes redundant
[18:01] <Kilos> grrrr 12.04 rocks
[18:02] <Kilos> traitor
[18:02] <magespawn> what is the command to remove the old kernels automatically
[18:02] <magespawn> ?
[18:02] <not_found> autoremove
[18:02] <not_found> in apt-get
[18:02] <Kilos> aiaptitude removes them for you
[18:02] <Kilos> aptget clears you archives
[18:03] <not_found> then again if you have the old kernel available and you can't boot it is nice to have the old kernel available ins't it ;)
[18:03] <not_found> if the new one is not good
[18:03] <Kilos> if you do any app install with aptitude it will tell you there are kernels not needed anymore
[18:03] <not_found> apt-get also gives info when there are things that can be removed ;)
[18:04] <not_found> anyway
[18:04] <not_found> to each his own
[18:04] <Kilos> in grub boot menu you have the choice of using earlier version
[18:04] <not_found> apt-get is more than is needed and that is why you will find it in every wiki, blog and book about ubuntu as the default way to do stuff in ubuntu
[18:04] <Kilos> something in the words supercow makes peeps think apt-get is better
[18:05] <not_found> only if the kernel is still available uncle Kilos, if you remove it then it is gone
[18:05] <Gotango> I'm using earlier version kernel, will that be an issue
[18:05] <not_found> nope
[18:05] <not_found> Gotango: should not be an issue
[18:05] <magespawn> i have a few old kernels cluttering up boot
[18:05] <Gotango> okay
[18:06] <Kilos> they are there to give you a choice to recover from an earlier kernel if one of your fancy programs crashes something
[18:06] <Kilos> but normally the latest one showing is the best
[18:07] <Kilos> linux doesnt just bloat stuff it improves things
[18:07] <Gotango> So how do i get the 3.5 kernel back. It only gives me lots of 3.2 kernels now
[18:08] <not_found> very often a new kernel has regressions, ask anyone that tried the early 3.x kernels with laptops that became so hot :p
[18:08] <Kilos> on boot you choose
[18:08] <Kilos> ah not_found his lappy cooks
[18:09] <Kilos> where you been
[18:09] <magespawn> brb got a restart
[18:09] <Kilos> ok
[18:09] <Gotango> Huh? not_found you mean my hot lappy is a result of the 3.2 kernel aswell ?
[18:10] <not_found> don't think it was the 3.2 kernels, ones before them...
[18:10] <not_found> but it isn't impossible
[18:10] <Gotango> oh okay
[18:10] <Gotango> Kilos i'm gona make more vents for the hot air to escape, it seems to help
[18:11] <Kilos> good
[18:11] <not_found> hmmm
[18:11] <Kilos> dont drill through the mobo
[18:11] <Gotango> lol its a second hand lappy :P
[18:12] <not_found> if the system is creating more heat it means it is consuming more power and that means less battery and the shortening of the life of components...
[18:12] <magespawn> back again
[18:13] <Kilos> wb magespawn
[18:13] <Gotango> Hmm interesting not_found
[18:14] <Gotango> So the correct software to compliment the hardware is the answer i guess
[18:14] <Kilos> tell him how to see whats causing it not_found
[18:14] <Kilos> ya additional drivers
[18:15] <Gotango> Where do i check cpu temperature
[18:15] <Kilos> Maaz, google checking cpu temp in 12.04
[18:15] <Maaz> Kilos: "monitoring - How do I get the CPU temperature? - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/15832/how-do-i-get-the-cpu-temperature :: "Check CPU Temperature in Ubuntu 12.04 - YouTube" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOuJcaD4OBI :: "Install Temperature Sensors Indicators in Ubuntu 12.04/11.10/Linux ..." http://www.noobslab.com/2012/06/install-hardware-
[18:15] <Maaz> sensors-indicators-in.html :: "Monitor Hardware Temperature In Ubuntu With Psensor ... - Web Upd…
[18:15] <Gotango> Thanks Kilos
[18:15] <Kilos> but dont forget everything extra running uses more cpu
[18:15] <Kilos> np
[18:16] <Gotango> yeah thats true Kilos i wana disable java runtime aswell
[18:16] <Kilos> does is run all the time
[18:17] <Kilos> i dont know about these things
[18:18]  * not_found doesn't know to much about this linux thing... he just shoots the breeze in the IRC channel...
[18:18] <Gotango> It used to be a startup process running all the time on windows.
[18:21] <Kilos> http://askubuntu.com/questions/4719/what-are-benefits-of-aptitude-compared-to-apt-get
[18:21] <Kilos> hee hee
[18:21] <Kilos> flame wars coming
[18:23] <not_found> :) as long as we don't debate GNU/Linux vs Linux, or vim vs emacs or linux vs *nix vs bsd it is ok I guess :p
[18:24] <not_found> or wayland vs mir
[18:24] <Kilos> haha
[18:24] <Kilos> i wonder what mir is gonna be like
[18:24] <not_found> end user won't notice a difference
[18:24] <Kilos> when do we start using it
[18:24] <not_found> or that is the idea
[18:24] <Kilos> oh
[18:25] <Kilos> isnt it supposed to be more efficient
[18:25] <not_found> sure
[18:25] <Kilos> thats all that is important
[18:25] <not_found> but how you going to notice it now if your system is already keeping up :p
[18:25] <Kilos> magespawn, what are you doing?
[18:26] <Kilos> lol
[18:26]  * not_found goes and reads more conspiracy stuff cause it is funny!
[18:26] <Kilos> efficiency is important
[18:27] <Kilos> one sees the difference in kde between 12.04 and 13.10 in install time
[18:27] <Kilos> 13.10 installs in half the time
[18:27] <Kilos> 1 min less than 1/2 actually
[18:28] <Kilos> i hope 14.04 is as good or even better then i might go kubuntu full time
[18:28] <Kilos> someone else can help unity peeps
[18:32] <Gotango> I cant seem to get a cpu temperature reading from those link Kilos
[18:33] <Gotango> I get pci adapters temperatures only
[18:34] <Kilos> aw
[18:35] <Gotango> ~$ sensors
[18:35] <Gotango> acpitz-virtual-0
[18:35] <Gotango> Adapter: Virtual device
[18:35] <Gotango> temp1:       +256.0°C  (crit = +105.0°C)
[18:35] <Gotango> temp2:        +30.0°C  (crit = +105.0°C)
[18:35] <Gotango> k10temp-pci-00c3
[18:35] <Gotango> Adapter: PCI adapter
[18:35] <Gotango> temp1:        +77.8°C  (high = +70.0°C)
[18:35] <Gotango>                        (crit = +100.0°C, hyst = +95.0°C)
[18:35] <Kilos> i had a cpu temp thing here one time. little icon in top panel but it used cpu so i removed it
[18:36] <Gotango> that tut in the link should output the cores temperatures, but it wont show it
[18:37]  * Gotango gets another grandpa for his ubuntu headace
[18:38] <Kilos> Gotango, make sure you always eat something before a grandpa
[18:38] <Kilos> i have no valves in my stomach from grandpas
[18:39] <magespawn> always good to eat something before taking medicine
[18:39] <magespawn> Kilos in what regard?
[18:39] <Gotango> Yes i had something. Thanks will remember that Kilos
[18:40] <Kilos> magespawn, ?
 magespawn, what are you doing?
[18:40] <Kilos> that new job has corrupted you
[18:40] <Kilos> you used to chat lots
[18:40] <Kilos> and help when i got stuck
[18:40] <Kilos> now you a semi lurker
[18:41] <magespawn> bit tired now, drove to Volksrust to get fish from the grandparents
[18:41] <Kilos> aha
[18:41] <Kilos> long way
[18:42] <magespawn> going into work tomorrow to sort out cabling for the wireless network
[18:42] <Kilos> did you get that mail about cabling
[18:42] <Kilos> i didnt read up on it
[18:42] <magespawn> not sure
[18:43] <magespawn> let me check, on the list?
[18:43] <Kilos> i mailed it to you man look for mail from me
[18:43] <Kilos> forwarded
[18:43]  * Kilos cries
[18:44] <Kilos> downloaded a 40m iso of freedos and it dont boot
[18:44] <Kilos> im still trying to fix that 2tb drives firmware magespawn
[18:46] <magespawn> might be a lost cause?
[18:46] <magespawn> right just read your mail now, i am already a subscriber, thanks
[18:46] <Kilos> yeah but what an achievment it will be if it comes right
[18:47] <Kilos> cool
[18:47] <magespawn> indeed it will be
[18:47] <magespawn> one of epic proportions
[18:47] <Kilos> maybe i can try replacing platters too. that might cure the i/o error
[18:48] <Kilos> its near a year i been working on and off on it now. but found a new way to try today
[18:48] <magespawn> that is a tricky thing to do, they are not very dust tolerant
[18:48] <magespawn> do tell
[18:49] <Kilos> last was with firmware patch now its flash firmware and install new frimware
[18:49] <Kilos> i just dunno where to get platters
[18:50] <Kilos> and no one from the lists sent me even one scrap drive
[18:50] <Kilos> grrrr
[18:51] <Kilos> to repair drives you need lots of spares
[18:52] <Kilos> have to use parts from same models on each other
[18:54] <magespawn> that is always that problem
[19:06] <magespawn> I am busy having a look at these two projects Commotion https://commotionwireless.net/ and Volatility https://code.google.com/p/volatility/
[19:10] <Kilos> i could enjoy doing networks like that
[19:10] <Kilos> dish and mesh antenna
[19:11] <Kilos> something you can see
[19:12] <Kilos> and with modern test equipment it makes life so much easier than the old guys had it
[19:12] <Kilos> also modern software that does the thinking for you
[19:13] <magespawn> or a lot of it. there are several online tools to help align your equipment
[19:13] <Kilos> yeah so lekker
[19:19] <magespawn> back again
[19:19] <Kilos> wb
[19:20] <Kilos> oh thats why i asked what you doing with the reboot
[19:20] <Kilos> inetpro, ping
[19:21] <magespawn> tried to play a dvd with vlc and laptop stopped responding
[19:21] <Kilos> ill get a pong for breakfast looks like
[19:21] <Kilos> oh magespawn found a kiff tool to fix cd/dvds
[19:21] <Kilos> dvdisaster
[19:22] <Kilos> gets the info off dvd/cd fixes it and make a new iso
[19:24] <magespawn> for scratched disks?
[19:24] <Kilos> yip supposed to be for damaged cds or cds that are corrupt
[19:25] <Kilos> had a xp cd that didnt boot anymore and made a new one that works
[19:25] <Kilos> in the repos too
[19:25] <magespawn> cool beans
[19:26] <Kilos> yeah
[19:26] <Kilos> costs you one blank cd/dvd
[19:27] <magespawn> looks like this machine has a problem with playing DVD
[19:27] <Kilos> ai!
[19:27] <magespawn> old second hand machine so no worries
[19:27] <Kilos> i had to get a new dvdwriter to replace my old one too
[19:27] <Kilos> just stopped working
[19:29] <magespawn> they do that unfortunately
[19:30] <magespawn> have you heard of portableapps.com
[19:30] <magespawn> ?
[19:30] <Kilos> R149 + vat and couriers
[19:30] <Kilos> nope what are they
[19:33] <Kilos> i have made a bootable ubuntu installed fully updated upgraded stick with everything i use on it
[19:33] <Kilos> so can boot from it and feel at home apart from being slower
[19:35] <Kilos> cloud stuff uses data
[19:35] <magespawn> this is for win only as far as i know, but it is a bunch of apps like firefox and thnderbird that will run from a flash when plugged into a booted machine but store all the data on the flash drive so you can take it with you
[19:35] <Kilos> aha
[19:37] <magespawn> http://portableapps.com/
[19:39] <Kilos> yeah i went there
[19:40] <Kilos> oh have you sorted the password prob?
[19:46] <Kilos> magespawn, ?
[19:58] <Gotango> Kilos do i always have to enter password after doing sudo ?
[19:58] <Kilos> yessir
[19:58] <Gotango> oh okay
[19:58] <Kilos> its so other users cant mess with serious tuff
[19:58] <Gotango> thats good
[19:59] <Kilos> yeah so basically you can have others use your pc but not change your system
[19:59] <Kilos> unless you actually give them admin tights
[20:00] <Gotango> lol i dont want anyone wearing my tights :p
[20:00] <Kilos> lol
[20:00] <Kilos> rights sorry
[20:01] <Kilos> eye dont see kiff so late at night
[20:01] <Gotango> Yeah and past your bed time :)
[20:01] <Kilos> waiting for 11pm to get http://sourceforge.net/p/drbl/feature-requests/2/
[20:01] <Kilos> 153m
[20:03] <Gotango> oh that sounds good
[20:03] <Kilos> i dunno what im doing wrong but cant get the 40m version to boot from usb stick
[20:04] <Kilos> says it has a kernel missing
[20:04] <Kilos> grrr
[20:04] <Kilos> thats so doff. .iso are supposed to be bootable as far as i know
[20:05] <Kilos> and no where do they say add a kernel before making a boot stick
[20:06] <Gotango> yeah thats true
[20:06] <Gotango> Dunno about that Bios stuff
[20:06] <Kilos> oh i play lots in bios
[20:07] <Kilos> have had a very sick pc with virus in bios
[20:07] <Kilos> flashing was the only cure
[20:08] <Kilos> i try fix scrap pcs
[20:08] <Gotango> Flashing cures alot but has its bad sides too
[20:08] <Gotango> Yeah knowing about BIos helps alot when working with different pc's
[20:09] <Kilos> if you do it wrong yeah then you brick it
[20:09] <Gotango> lol thats the fun part
[20:09] <Kilos> so good to get all your upgrade software in place first
[20:10] <Kilos> the hassle is some ar only doable with floppies
[20:10] <Kilos> others like more modern ones have the bios upgrade utility built in
[20:12] <Gotango> Newer is better but when you fix old pc's its hard to make things work since most parts are deprecated
[20:12] <Kilos> all i have is old stuff
[20:12] <Kilos> 1 out of 7 not working yet
[20:13] <Kilos> 1 out of 8 actually
[20:13] <Gotango> oh , do you know there agaes
[20:13] <Gotango>  ages*
[20:14] <Kilos> i have 386 486 p2 p3  and p4's of different years
[20:14] <Kilos> latest is dual core but still with ddr ram
[20:15] <Kilos> so a ral fast pc is still a dream
[20:15] <Kilos> real
[20:16] <Gotango> Wow! you collected 386 486 pc's :0
[20:16] <Kilos> thats what i started with
[20:16] <Kilos> in 2006 i think
[20:16] <Gotango> That should be a guiness world record i think
[20:17] <Kilos> didnt know what pcs were for before that
[20:17] <Kilos> no man
[20:17] <Kilos> lol
[20:17] <Gotango> Thats alot man, wow.
[20:17] <Gotango> What made you decide to collect pc's and fix them
[20:17] <Kilos> was given a scrap 386 to give me something to do then the bug bit me
[20:18] <Kilos> and the need for speed grew
[20:18] <Kilos> red alert wouldnt play on 386 once i got it going
[20:18] <Kilos> oh in dos only
[20:18] <magespawn> sorry Kilos, password?
[20:19] <Gotango> Aah that is a good bug
[20:19] <Kilos> then 486 was a bit better
[20:19] <Kilos> your site magespawn
[20:19] <magespawn> yes that was not too much of a problem in the end
[20:19] <Kilos> then p3 with win 95
[20:19] <Kilos> cool magespawn
[20:19] <magespawn> just a matter of asking those who know
[20:20] <Kilos> hope you taken full control
[20:20] <magespawn> yup of the one site but there is so much to cover
[20:20] <Kilos> the it guy must have full admin rights
[20:21] <Kilos> Gotango, that freedos is not only for bios. you can do hdd firmware as well
[20:21] <magespawn> that would be the normal way of doing things, normally there would also be some sort of hand over, with the info you need etc
[20:22] <Kilos> thats right magespawn but the previous oke walking out cant be good
[20:22] <magespawn> kind of makes you wonder why, and what exactly i am getting myself into
[20:23] <Kilos> thats why employers must learn to keep employees happy so when they leave they leave with a smile on the face and no hard feeling
[20:23] <magespawn> that would be a smart thing to do
[20:23] <Gotango> That sounds cool Kilos , nifty tool that
[20:23] <magespawn> happy employees work harder too
[20:24] <Kilos> yip
[20:25] <magespawn> Kilos i am actually mostly using this for the experience, and i am getting truck loads of it at the moment
[20:25] <Gotango> I think the only place i saw happy employees was at google :)
[20:25] <magespawn> nah happens in other places too
[20:26] <Kilos> ian says the same magespawn because he is struggling financialy to make ends meet but he says the knowledge makes up for it
[20:26] <Gotango> Ya magaspawn, that was 10 years ago
[20:26] <magespawn> if you gather the knowledge now, then sooner or later you can make it start to pay for you
[20:26] <Gotango> Must be many places by now
[20:27] <magespawn> i must be off to bed, have to get up early tomorrow, good night all
[20:27] <Kilos> Gotango, when you type in nicks type first 3 letters and hit tab to complete it
[20:27] <Kilos> it sorts caps too
[20:27] <Kilos> night magespawn sleep tight
[20:28] <Kilos> have a good week
[20:28] <Kilos> ty for the chats
[20:28] <Gotango> take care magespawn
[20:29] <Gotango> Kilos i'm using opera chat in the browser
[20:29] <Kilos> ai!
[20:29] <Kilos> my opera uses more cpu than anything else
[20:29] <Gotango> Xchat is too hard to figure out
[20:29] <Gotango> I'm used to Opera chat
[20:29] <Kilos> but then there are a few open tabs
[20:30] <Kilos> ai!
[20:30] <Kilos> all you need to do is ask man
[20:30] <Kilos> nothing beats a true irc client
[20:30] <Gotango> My fan has been running at one speed since the dust blowout
[20:31] <Kilos> yay
[20:31] <Kilos> sorry ubuntu
[20:31] <Gotango> Yeah , but i dont use the commands in chat
[20:31] <Kilos> what commands
[20:31] <Gotango> still the heat is there though
[20:32] <Gotango> The chat commands
[20:32] <Kilos> there is most likely more dust deep inside
[20:32] <Kilos> you dont need chat commands you can configure xchat lekker
[20:33] <Kilos> scroll back as far as you like etc
[20:33] <Gotango> I guess so, i just cant figure out how to totally open this things arrg!
[20:33] <Kilos> have a sound when your nick is mentioned
[20:33] <Kilos> just ask man
[20:34] <Kilos> you are in a new world now on linux
[20:34] <Kilos> you wont be asked for $49 for help
[20:35] <Gotango> i know irc apps are great, but i like the irc client in opera, then i dont have to switch again to open facebook and a website , the tabs are handy
[20:35] <Kilos> ai! facebook wastes data
[20:35] <Gotango> lol yeah its good to volenteer :)
[20:36] <Kilos> do you tweet as well?
[20:36] <Gotango> Nope i use a mobile user agent and facebook gives the mobile version
[20:36] <Kilos> ah
[20:37] <Gotango> The full site will waste alot of data
[20:37] <Gotango> yeah but hardly use it
[20:37] <Kilos> im not a facebook fan. but go there now and agin'
[20:37] <Kilos> we have ubuntu page there too
[20:38] <Kilos> and a mailing list
[20:39] <Gotango> I got the ubuntu group and fan page there, mostly noobs asking stuff then people get upset cause they keep answering the same queastions
[20:39] <Kilos> lol
[20:39] <Gotango> Dont know about the mailing list on facebook
[20:39] <Kilos> yeah peeps need to be able to scroll back and see what has been asked before
[20:40] <Gotango> lol
[20:40] <Kilos> or be told to come ask here
[20:40] <Gotango> or the forums
[20:40] <Gotango> Many places
[20:40] <Kilos> the forums get too busy at times for me to keep up
[20:41] <Gotango> They make sticky topics for newbies with similar queastions but they never notice that
[20:41] <Kilos> and they arent as personal as here
[20:41] <Kilos> and they dont tell you when to use sudo and why
[20:42] <Gotango> lol yeah , this way is the best way :)
[20:42] <Gotango> Fun to interact in realtime
[20:42] <Kilos> they dont seem to appreciate that moving from windows to ubuntu is a major step for some peeps
[20:44] <Kilos> my daughter in aus changed to ubutu and loves it but needs to use 7 to use her drawing tools
[20:45] <Gotango> Thats nice, she sounds very talented in that
[20:45] <Kilos> she does anime drawings
[20:45] <Gotango> yeah not many programs have been made yet for ubuntu to support that
[20:45] <Kilos> i think thats what it is called
[20:46] <Gotango> Awesome , must be the Dragonball z type animations
[20:46] <Kilos> yes ubuntu supports the wacom tablet i think its called but she had bought a different one that didnt work on ubuntu
[20:47] <Gotango> or the japanese anime
[20:47] <Kilos> she also does portrate type things for peeps
[20:47] <Kilos> i dunno about that stuff
[20:48] <Gotango> thats great shes using her full talent to make a living
[20:48] <Kilos> http://kaiverta.deviantart.com/journal/Commission-Prices-Homebase-240323253
[20:49] <Kilos> i think thats it
[20:49] <Kilos> aw you cant see anything there
[20:52] <Kilos> she draws well
[20:52] <Gotango> Yeah cant see anything, i thought it was hers
[20:53] <Gotango> I bet she does
[20:53] <Kilos> she has her site there somewhere
[20:53] <Kilos> she also sings
[20:53] <Kilos> but that eats data , she lives on youtube
[20:54] <Kilos> i make her send me the songs. so i dont have to go to youtube
[20:54] <Gotango> Ah you must be a proud dad to have such a talented daughter
[20:55] <Kilos> yeah
[20:55] <Kilos> and ive never met her
[20:55] <Kilos> hehe
[20:55] <Kilos> only online
[20:56] <Gotango> huh ? like her mom left with her to Aus when she was small
[20:56] <Kilos> we split before she was born
[20:57] <Kilos> was only a short 4 month relationship
[20:57] <Gotango> oh okay
[20:57] <Gotango> glad you are in contact with her
[20:58] <Kilos> yeah after 26 years
[20:59] <Gotango> tjo thats long, both of you gona be very emotional when you meet f2f
[20:59] <Kilos> lol
[21:01] <Gotango> I have to start building a boat now, SA will be flooded with tears :)
[21:01] <Kilos> haha i dont know if we ever gonna get together. airfares so far are expensive
[21:02] <Gotango> yeah true. Its a once in a lifetime experience though
[21:03] <Kilos> yeah
[21:11] <Kilos> whew download speed of 525 kB/s
[21:13] <Gotango> lol my maximum is 20 k/bs
[21:14] <Kilos> thats like an edge connection not 3g
[21:14] <Gotango> Yeah its 2G ,Cellc dont pick up 3G here
[21:15] <Kilos> well your data last longer that way
[21:15] <Gotango> Will try find out if Telkom mobile got that
[21:15] <Kilos> telkom mobile is good and if you have slow connection they sort it for you
[21:15] <Gotango> last longer the 3G way ?
[21:16] <Kilos> no 2g way
[21:16] <Gotango> oh
[21:16] <Gotango> Thats good
[21:16] <Gotango> Always thought telkom gave bad service since it government
[21:17] <Kilos> no man i would go mad at that speed
[21:17] <Kilos> nope telkom mobile are actually quite good
[21:17] <Kilos> and very helpful
[21:17] <Kilos> cellc sucks and mtn is the worst
[21:18] <Gotango> haha, yeah but i usually find someting else to do while something downloads
[21:18] <Gotango> Then i will prefer telkom mobile then
[21:19] <Gotango> Ya mtn is the worst and too damn expensive
[21:19] <Kilos> yeah
[21:20] <Kilos> i struggle with mtn and cellc then went voda and it was a bit better but since 8ta came out im happy
[21:20] <Gotango> I use a vodafone port server to connect with cellc internet. theyre servers are buggy and cuts oout alot
[21:20] <Kilos> eish
[21:20] <Kilos> look for a telkom sim
[21:21] <Kilos> anyway im gonna crash now
[21:21] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[21:21] <Kilos> see ya tomorrow
[21:21] <Gotango> thanks i will try that :)
[21:21] <Gotango> Sleep well Kilos
[21:21] <Kilos> ty
[21:21] <Gotango> yw


[03:52] <arraybolt3[m]> From what I've seen, it appears we have either too few channel ops or we've distributed them poorly. The !ops trigger is sometimes called and nothing that I can see is ever done about it. Other times it takes a very long time for anything to happen when the events that are occurring are severe.
[03:52] <arraybolt3[m]> One idea to fix this would be to make operators of any one official Ubuntu channel be operators of all of them. That would spread out the power evenly and make an !ops call in any one channel more likely to be dealt with in a timely fashion.
[03:52] <arraybolt3[m]> Another idea might be to recruit more channel ops.
[03:53] <arraybolt3[m]> (One particular incident I noticed was an argument between Eickmeyer and "I am the human 1" in #kubuntu. (Eickmeyer is the Ubuntu Studio team lead and the operator of #ubuntustudio and the Telegram part of #kubuntu.) "I am the human 1" was obviously acting out of line, and after repeated warnings, Eickmeyer finally called !ops... and nothing happened AFAICT.
[03:54] <arraybolt3[m]> If ops in one channel were ops everywhere, Eickmeyer could have issued an immediate kick at that point, keeping any further trouble from occurring.)
[04:27] <arraybolt3[m]> (This may not actually be a good or necessary idea - further conversation in #ubuntu-discuss has revealed that I might be overreacting (ok nevermind I'm almost certainly overreacting). So maybe this doesn't need to be changed at all.)
[09:51] <lotuspsychje> testing webchat Fallen|tmp ?
[09:53] <Fallen|tmp> just testing how things look from actual IRC :)
[09:53] <Fallen|tmp> (other nick is using the Matrix bridge)
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> cool
[12:09] <alkisg> Creating a matrix space with bridges to all the ubuntu irc channels would be cool too ;)
[12:09] <ravage> is there more than one with actual users in it?
[12:10] <alkisg> IRC channels? Sure
[12:10] <ravage> matrix channels
[12:10] <ravage> im not sure if a matrix space of IRC channels is useful
[12:10] <ravage> but it can be created of course
[12:11] <alkisg> I see several people using matrix to access IRC
[12:11] <ravage> yes. i linked them in the matrix room already
[12:12] <alkisg> Sure, "add room" and searching for the exact room name also works, but if instead of the Ubuntu matrix channel, we had the #ubuntu bridge, I believe it would help increase the audience
[12:12] <alkisg> IRC is fine for older users, Matrix is more close to newer users but doesn't have enough users yet; bridges can bridge the gap and help both
[12:13] <alkisg> E.g. #ubuntu-mate moved on to discord, so its IRC users were lost
[12:13] <ravage> that really is a shame
[12:13] <alkisg> While an official Matrix blessing would make moves to telegram or discord etc more rare
[12:14] <ravage> if you have a list we can start with then why not
[12:15] <alkisg> A list of the irc channels on libera? I believe they can be listed with some irc /list command
[12:15] <ravage> oh channels that could be useful for the space
[12:16] <ravage> *of
[12:16] <alkisg> Not sure about that, which are the most active wrt community
[12:16] <alkisg> I'm only on #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #ubuntu-mate, but others are also on #ubuntu-discuss and lots of others
[12:23] <lotuspsychje> i like that idea too
[12:23] <lotuspsychje> on the meeting with Fallen i was already stating 2 ways to improve our user count towards ubuntu
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/simplify-irc-community-support-process/23220
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> this
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hexchat/+bug/1831220
[12:24] <lotuspsychje> and my wishlist
[12:25] <lotuspsychje> imagine ubuntu desktop would have an irc client by default, and user could even come get support from a live
[12:28] <ravage> i would prefer to include element as a default snap. but i guess alkisg would not be so pleased :D
[12:28] <ravage> but there are other matrix clients
[12:29] <ravage> more modern and the IRC channels can be reached via the space too
[12:30] <lotuspsychje> its not about hexchat really
[12:30] <lotuspsychje> just use a default one so the users can find us
[12:32] <ravage> my idea was to include a matrix client instead of an IRC client :)
[12:32] <lotuspsychje> anyway would be cool
[12:32] <lotuspsychje> now its like 2 dead ends right
[12:32] <lotuspsychje> try yelp==>get more help==>community support to find a channel
[12:33] <lotuspsychje> its so messy atm
[12:39] <Fallen> More modern synchronous communication is one of the pieces in my strategy on lowering the barrier of entry. Matrix is certainly a favorite, but I think we need to assess what the different options are and the pros and cons of each.
[12:39] <Fallen> I'd like to have one "main" platform that holds most of the communication channels and is the authoritative place to communicate about Ubuntu. We can bridge other platforms through a somewhat more narrow bridge, but I'd like to avoid fragmentation.
[12:40] <lotuspsychje> sounds good
[12:41] <ravage> something like https://matrix.to/#/#ubuntu-space:xentonix.net
[12:41] <Fallen> Regarding Matrix itself, before we promote spaces on the exiting libera bridge, I think we should find out what the best option is regarding homeservers, e.g. should there be chat.ubuntu.com, vs something on libera, etc. If we promote a space on one server the migration will be even more confusing.
[12:41] <ravage> a room can have multiple names
[12:41] <ravage> they are federated
[12:41] <ravage> so its no problem to add a name to the space on a new homeserver
[12:42] <ravage> only the room id matters really
[12:43] <Fallen> Right, but IIUC federated means we can access the room through a different homeserver, like I am doing now with my own. I see some importance on deciding where the actual physical room is hosted.
[12:43] <ravage> there is no such thing in matrix
[12:43] <ravage> rooms do not belong to a homeserver
[12:45] <Fallen> But a room has a main address?
[12:46] <Fallen> I've run in to issues before on the Mozilla homeserver, where some people participated via matrix.org, and they weren't able to do all the things to a room because it was on the Mozilla homeserver. I don't quite recall what that was though.
[12:46] <ravage> yes. it can have multiple published addresses and you can set a main one
[12:47] <ravage> but if you would create an ubuntu homeserver then you could set your own address as the published one in your homeserver directory
[12:49] <ravage> there is also a bridge to discord. i never used it myself
[12:50] <ravage> so i think matrix is a good place to connect everyone
[12:51] <Fallen> Thank you for the insight, I will keep that in mind! I need to head off to a meeting, see you later all :)
[12:52] <ravage> "enjoy" the meeting :)
[14:37] <ravage> https://i.imgur.com/U4gnnaX.png
[15:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Can I just chime in and say, despite how cool Matrix is, I don't think we should make it the default chat app for getting help in Ubuntu? Not everyone can get an email address easily (they may not know about things like ProtonMail), and you can't use Matrix without an email address AFAIK.
[15:05] <arraybolt3[m]> IRC, you just plug in a nickname and you're live, which makes it much more easy for a user who just needs some help to get help without having to also register for yet another service, if they're able to register at all.
[15:06] <ravage> there is a way of using matrix as a guest
[15:06] <ravage> but i havent looked into that much yet
[15:06] <ravage> and its totally fine to offer IRC and Matrix
[15:09] <ravage> https://github.com/vector-im/chatterbox seems to be a way to allow users to join but as i said i have not looked into it yet
[15:10] <ravage> im pretty sure IRC will be around for a long time anyway
[15:15] <arraybolt3[m]> ravage: Hey, I like the Ubuntu space!
[15:15] <arraybolt3[m]> Maybe that will let me clean up my Matrix some (it's gettin' a tad messy over here).
[15:15] <ravage> :)
[15:21] <lotuspsychje> screenshot looks tight
[15:22] <lotuspsychje> i agree with arraybolt3[m] also, just plug in a user that joins directly into support without hassle, should be our end goal
[15:29] <leftyfb> there are web irc clients that do just that using just a link
[15:31] <lotuspsychje> do you mean our existing webchat for ubuntu leftyfb ?
[15:32] <leftyfb> Yeah, I’m not sure how much easier you can get than that
[15:32] <leftyfb> Also, thunderbird has an irc client built in
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> ah yeah, i forgot about that
[15:34] <lotuspsychje> leftyfb: the problem with our webchat its 6 clicks away from; https://ubuntu.com/support/community-support
[15:34] <leftyfb> Then we need to fix that
[15:34] <lotuspsychje> yeah i reported that on discourse and now to Fallen aswell
[15:35] <lotuspsychje> the thunderbird idea is neat
[15:35] <lotuspsychje> just testing you dont need to setup email to join irc
[15:37] <ravage> on the thunderbird note: when k9 mails becomes thunderbird the chat option for support would be a nice feature on mobile devices ;)
[15:37] <lotus|thunder> hi i need support asap :p
[15:37] <ravage> :D
[15:38] <lotuspsychje> >lotus|thunder< CTCP VERSION
[15:38] <lotuspsychje> -lotus|thunder- VERSION Thunderbird 91.11.0
[15:38] <lotuspsychje> +1 for leftyfb
[15:39] <lotuspsychje> just not all users would be aware to ask for support via thunderbird
[15:42] <arraybolt3[m]> The webchat is far less than ideal IMO. It disconnects you if you're idle too long, which means that by the time someone's there to help, the person who needs help may have vanished. How do we expect users to have patience if the software they use is in a hurry?
[15:42] <lotuspsychje> is there a time cap on dc on webchat arraybolt3[m] ?
[15:42] <ravage> i will look into some alternatives if i have the time
[15:43] <arraybolt3[m]> I dunno, I'll open the webchat and join here and we'll find out the time cap. I'm pretty sure it will happen though.
[15:43] <ravage> but i have seen guest users on the support channel that stayed a long time
[15:44] <Aaron|webchat> Hello? Help? HELP!
[15:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, looks like it works.
[15:44] <arraybolt3[m]> Now let's see how long it takes for me to get auto-disconnected.
[15:45] <lotuspsychje> lol !patience
[15:46] <lotuspsychje> looking at my wishlist, the flavour team leads seem to use quassel a lot https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hexchat/+bug/1831220
[15:46] <ravage> Fallen, what are the chances you have time to travel to Bonn on the 20th and/or 21st of August? :D
[15:46] <arraybolt3[m]> ravage: Can we make #ubuntu-devel not part of the Ubuntu space? And maybe add #ubuntu-next to it.
[15:47] <ravage> let me make you mod. maybe you can add them yourself then :D
[15:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (All the other devel channels aren't in the space, and I use them all.)
[15:48] <ravage> try.
[15:48] <ravage> im not sure which level is needed
[15:48] <ravage> it looks like mod is enough
[15:49] <arraybolt3[m]> Let's see if I can figure out what I'm even doing here :D
[15:50] <arraybolt3[m]> Looks like it worked!
[15:53] <arraybolt3[m]> Maybe it's just the Lubuntu webchat link that auto-disconnects like crazy - I should have gotten unplugged from the webchat long ago, yet I'm still here. Or maybe it's just that I'm also in an active room there and so it's keeping it alive?
[15:54] <arraybolt3[m]> OK now I'm only in #lubuntu with the webchat, we'll see how that goes.
[17:12] <arraybolt3[m]> Welp, turns out the webchat doesn't auto-disconnect when you come in through the IRC channel list! Good to know, also makes me wonder why it kept disconnecting me before.
[18:49] <Fallen> ravage: what's going on in Bonn?
[18:51] <Fallen> arraybolt3: why not include #ubuntu-devel ?
[19:02] <ravage> Fallen: froscon.de
[19:05] <Fallen> Ah yes, I had heard about that but forgot it was Bonn. I might be able to make it, I'm checking to see what additional conferences might fit into our conference strategy for this year.
[19:17] <ravage> Would be great :)
[19:17] <ravage> You should check a room soon though
[19:17] <ravage> Always a little crowded there over the weekend
[19:18] <ravage> But you can get there quick even directly from Bonn
[19:18] <ravage> It's at the University
[19:22] <ravage> we stay at https://www.euro-park-hotel.de/
[19:38] <arraybolt3[m]> Fallen: I didn't want #ubuntu-devel included in the Ubuntu Space since all the other channels were support channels or discussion channels, and I keep my development life and support life separate. (I also am joined to virtually all the support and development channels and didn't like having one devel channel in with all the support channels - I'd like to keep all the -devel thingies in one spot.)
[19:38] <arraybolt3[m]> (Like, I do development and support at the same time, but the conversations are entirely different in many/most instances.)
[19:39] <Fallen> That is fair, more spaces then :-)
[19:40] <arraybolt3[m]> Fallen: OK, I like that idea. Want me to see if I can figure out how to throw together an Ubuntu Workshop space where all the development-related channels go?
[19:41] <Fallen> Sure, go ahead :) Spaces are cheap!
[19:49] <arraybolt3[m]> OK, that's a start. If the icon I made isn't OK, let me know (I figured we were OK with the icon for the other Ubuntu space so I turned the CoF logo into another logo with fire in the center, sort of like that space being the forge where Ubuntu is made).


[14:50] <vila> elopio: 4 years at Canonical said LinkedIn ? Happy birthday :) (Only 4 years ?)
[14:50] <elopio> 4 years, a lifetime :)
[14:50] <elopio> thank you
[14:51] <vila> elopio: It seems to me I know you for far longer ;)
[15:13] <balloons> hey vila and elopio! Been far to long.  Still working on it...
[15:16] <balloons> elopio, I was thinking about the next open house again this week actually
[15:18] <balloons> any idea on when that might happen? should be able to showcase snapcraft
[15:19] <balloons> *fingers crossed*
[15:27] <brendand> elopio, happy anniversary :)
[15:27] <brendand> elopio, my 5 years is coming up in december
[15:31] <vila> balloons: o/
[15:31] <vila> brendand: o/
[15:32] <elopio> brendand: wow 5 years.
[15:33] <elopio> this is the first time I don't get bored after a year and a half.
[15:33] <elopio> maybe it's even a little too exciting working here with you, the brain is never idle :)
[15:34] <elopio> last night I literally dreamt about subunit streams.
[15:34] <brendand> elopio, yeah, half a pitti/cjwatson/ogra just :)
[15:35] <elopio> lol. Great measurment unit.
[15:35] <pitti> heh -- /me has 11 years under the belt now
[15:35] <pitti> elopio: happy anniversary!
[15:36] <elopio> thanks.
[15:39] <brendand> pitti, ok so not quite half a pitti
[15:39] <pitti> but it will be in 2 years!
[15:39] <balloons> you almost measure up brendand :-)
[15:39] <balloons> you are half a dholbach!
[18:58] <balloons> ping DanChapman
[20:57] <ianorlin> For ubuntu server for wiley for http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1458/info I am getting 1.1 gigs of spaced used for amd64 for a minimal virtual machine but I am not sure what to file the bug agaisnt
[21:11] <ianorlin> It seems that gcc 5 is taking up a lot of the space


[02:37] <hyperair> hmm what's this canonical contributor agreement?
[02:37] <spikeb> a bit of stomach turning legalese.
[02:47] <hyperair> it looks slightly dubious
[02:47] <hyperair> i mean it's not that i don't trust canonical to act responsibly, but i don't feel comfortable with clause 3
[02:48]  * spikeb isn't very comfortable with it either
[02:48] <hyperair> 3. The term "Software" refers to all computer programs created as part of a Canonical programme listed at http://
[02:48] <hyperair> canonical.com/contributors as amended from time to time (including, without limitation, all source code, object
[02:48] <hyperair> code, and screen displays in the user interface) and related documentation including the copyright which I
[02:48] <hyperair> acknowledge is owned by Canonical Ltd ("Canonical").
[02:48] <hyperair> "as amended from time to time"
[02:49] <hyperair> which means it can be amended from tiem to time without my knowledge, and my signing of this agreement will automatically apply to the new projects added there
[02:49] <hyperair> i don't think i'm comfortable with that at all.
[02:50] <spikeb> there's already been an outcry on the internet over the contributor agreement and they canonical didn't budge, so you're basically stuck signing it or not contributing too much.
[02:50]  * spikeb sighs
[16:18] <ion> Meh. Inserting appmenu to unity-2d-panel’s list of indicators to be loaded causes it to crash.
[16:19] <ion> (I’m probably doing it wrong™.)
[16:27] <ion> kaleo: You said you have appmenu working in unity-2d. I take it it’s okay for panel/applets/indicator/indicator.c:380 not to have appmenu? const gchar *indicator_names[] = { "application", "messaging", "soundmenu", "datetime", "me", "session", 0 };
[16:43] <nysosym> hi there
[17:00] <ion> kaleo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/706183
[17:16] <Kaleo> hi ion
[17:16] <ion> Hi :-)
[17:17] <Kaleo> ion: the appmenu is supposed to be there and you should not have to touch the code at all
[17:17] <Kaleo> ion: if it's not there it's a bug somewhere
[17:17] <Kaleo> ion: it works for me on Maverick
[17:17] <Kaleo> ion: are you on Natty?
[17:17] <Kaleo> ion: (it was working on Natty last week but something might have broken it)
[17:17] <ion> Natty, yes.
[17:18] <ion> bzr get lp:unity-2d && grep -r appmenu unity-2d
[17:18] <ion> The only place it’s even mentioned in the source seems to be the indocator_order array which doesn’t seem to be connected to what gets loaded at all.
[17:19] <Kaleo> ion: it's in the appname applet
[17:19] <Kaleo> ion: unity-2d/panel/applets/appname/
[17:19] <Kaleo> menubarwidget.h
[17:21] <ion> Ah, ok.
[17:23] <ion> Where are the maverick packages for unity-2d? I could try them.
[17:25] <ion> Ah, https://launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/+archive/unity-2d-daily
[17:28] <ion> Meh, those are named and versioned differently than the packages in natty. The -default-settings package has a significantly lower version number in the PPA, and unity-2d is split into multiple packages in natty.
[17:34] <Kaleo> ion: no you are reading things wrong
[17:34] <Kaleo> ion: what you see on that webpage is the list of source packages
[17:35] <Kaleo> ion: which is unity-2d and unity-2d-default-settings essentially
[17:35] <ion> Ah, indeed, my bad.
[17:35] <Kaleo> ion: the binary packages resulting from them are numerous
[17:35] <Kaleo> ion: the content of the maverick and natty packages are quite synchronised
[17:38] <ion> For instance, unity-2d-launcher in natty: 3.2-0ubuntu1; in the PPA: 0.4-0ubuntu1~bzr378. *That’s* why it wouldn’t upgrade.
[17:41] <Kaleo> ion: upgrade?
[17:42] <Kaleo> ion: what upgrade?
[17:43] <Kaleo> ion: it's different version numbers but the content for now is mostly the same
[17:43] <ion> I just expected the PPA to have daily snapshots, i.e. most likely newer code than what’s in natty. Thus, i expected adding the PPA and doing an aptitude safe-upgrade to switch to the PPA packages. My expectations were wrong.
[17:43] <Kaleo> ion: right
[17:43] <Kaleo> ion: the ppa is for Maverick only atm
[17:44] <Kaleo> ion: daily builds for natty will come soon
[17:44] <Kaleo> ion: in the same ppa
[17:44] <ion> Alright
[17:44] <Kaleo> ion: unity-2d has been in Natty for 9 days :)
[17:56] <Kaleo> ion: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/706184 I replied there
[17:57] <ion> I’m not encountering that bug.
[17:58] <ion> Ah, i see your reply to the other one. :-)
[17:58] <ion> Thanks
[17:59] <Kaleo> ion: you are welcome
[19:07] <vocx> Eto... this doesn't really concern Unity, but anybody lives in Europe, Germanay perhaps? I know there was a recent sprint in Dallas, TX, so I was wondering if somebody could talk to me about their experience taking a flight from Dallas or Houston to Germanay. I wanna go to Munich, specifically.


[19:56] <LongLiveCHIEF> Odd_Bloke: idk if you or rharper had something to do with it, but there are now groovy builds for preinstalled image, and there wasn't 3 days ago
[19:56] <LongLiveCHIEF> whoever did that... thank you


[05:08] <kaushal> micahg: hi
[05:10] <kaushal> can someone please guide me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-June/245771.html
[05:13] <micahg> kaushal: that's a question for #ubuntu
[05:14] <kaushal> ok
[05:14] <kaushal> micahg: Any ideas ?
[05:14] <micahg> kaushal: I'll answer in #ubuntu
[05:14] <kaushal> sure
[12:25] <tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: yay, I was just about to ask you about doing another vtk transition :)
[16:47] <fabrice_sp> Hey tumbleweed! :-)
[16:48] <fabrice_sp> I was going to check which packages are still using vtk 5.4, but if you already have the list, that's great!
[17:04] <tumbleweed> it's only a handful. Laney: care to set up a tracker? libvtk5.4 -> 5.6
[17:05] <Laney> could you propose a merge? :-)
[17:05]  * tumbleweed supposes he could
[17:06]  * Laney is trying to encourage people to learn the syntax
[17:06] <tumbleweed> the syntax is pretty straight forward
[17:06] <Laney> actually ou don't even need to propose a merge
[17:06] <Laney> yes, quite
[17:08] <tumbleweed> Laney: +junk branches arne't really amenable to merging...
[17:12] <Laney> 'propose' in an informal sense, then
[17:12] <Laney> but no need: just do it directly
[17:12] <Laney> we ought to get a better branch really
[17:12] <tumbleweed> I think with the new permission model I'd have to join the team first
[17:12] <tumbleweed> owners != members
[17:15] <Laney> the intention was that the RT be able to manipulate it
[17:15] <Laney> so that's fine
[17:16]  * Laney is too busy playing with olduse.net to be useful :-)
[17:24] <tumbleweed> Laney: a readme file with a list of build-deps would be handy :)
[17:25]  * tumbleweed supposes he can write it now
[17:26] <Laney> from my history I can see I had at least ocaml-nox libocamlgraph-ocaml-dev libpcre-ocaml-dev libocsigen-ocaml-dev menhir
[17:26] <Laney> s/had/installed/
[17:26] <tumbleweed> yup
[17:27] <paissad> hello guys, i would like to use an environment variable during the run of the start-stop-daemon command !
[17:27] <paissad> start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --background --oknodo \
[17:27] <paissad>         --exec $DAEMON -- $DAEMON_OPTS
[17:27] <paissad> the env var is XXX
[17:28] <paissad> i did read the manpage of start-stop-daemon, but unless i did not read carefully, i don't see anything related to env vars
[17:28] <paissad> i'm not really sure that doing "export $XXX" before the use of 'start-stop-daemon' is a good idea
[17:29] <paissad> how should i proceed ?
[17:39] <Laney> you can do VARIABLE=value start-stop-daemon ...
[18:04] <tumbleweed> Laney, fabrice_sp: that was relatively painless: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/vtk.html
[18:04] <Laney> tumbleweed: yay, nice one
[18:05] <fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, nice one, yes!
[18:06] <fabrice_sp> binariy packages are still in NEW, so better wait before uploading packages for that transition :-)
[18:06] <tumbleweed> of course, need them to get through NEW (and armel building) first
[18:07] <fabrice_sp> armel is at 37% after 7 hours...
[18:29]  * Laney clogs up the buildds some more ;)
[18:30] <micahg> Laney: I think you're fine, they're pretty empty ATM
[18:30] <Laney> yep, I have the whole of i386 now :)
[18:31] <Laney> +amd64
[19:15] <paissad> i have a problem about a makefile, i don't know how to set a variable into the IF statement
[19:15] <paissad> here is the related target from my MakeFile http://pastebin.com/JQ7Scdw7
[19:16] <paissad> at line 7, i expected an echo of "HEAD" ... but i have nothing onto the terminal
[19:16] <paissad> and you can see at line 6 that i did SVN_REVISION="HEAD";
[19:17] <paissad> what am i doing wrong ? ... how must i set that variable ?
[19:20] <paissad> here is the output http://pastebin.com/NjN3T9WN
[19:55] <geser> paissad: I'm not fully sure but my guess would be that you set a shell variable in line 6 but access a Makefile one in line 7
[19:56] <paissad> geser, finally, i did something like this
[19:56] <paissad> ifeq ($(USE_STABLE), true)
[19:56] <paissad>     DOWNLOAD_SITE := http://ps3mediaserver.googlecode.com/svn/tags/$(TAG_VERSION)
[19:56] <paissad>     SVN_REVISION := HEAD
[19:56] <paissad> endif
[19:56] <paissad> outside of any kind of target
[19:57] <paissad> and i also removed the check-if-use-stable target which no more needed
[19:57] <geser> here you set a Makefile variable
[19:57] <paissad> indeed
[19:59] <geser> your line 6 from that paste is part of a subshell execution ('echo "$$SVN_REVISION"' might work in line 7, not sure if () are needed or not)
[19:59] <paissad> ok
[20:08] <m4n1sh> I am having issues building a package. The packaging code has been provided by gilir and the error is here
[20:08] <m4n1sh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/619350/
[20:08] <m4n1sh> the code is present here
[20:09] <m4n1sh> I think there is some screwed up rules file
[20:09] <m4n1sh> anyone can help?
[20:18] <geser> m4n1sh: is mozilla-devscripts in Build-Depends?
[20:19] <m4n1sh> geser: it is there
[20:19] <m4n1sh> but I am using debuild
[20:19] <m4n1sh> so I need to isntall mozilla-devscripts right
[20:19] <m4n1sh> I missed that part
[20:19] <m4n1sh> thanks'
[20:19] <geser> do you have it also installed?
[20:20] <geser> yes, you need it installed for calling the clean target (but you might don't need to have all build dependencies installed to build the source package)
[20:20] <m4n1sh> didnt have it installed
[20:20] <m4n1sh> but debhelper might need the xul-ext addon
[20:20] <m4n1sh> right?
[20:21] <micahg> m4n1sh: mozilla-devscripts provides dh_xul-ext
[20:21] <m4n1sh> geser: did that. Works :)
[20:21] <m4n1sh> micahg: yes. works
[20:21] <m4n1sh> I was not able to make out from which package that addon comes from
[20:22] <micahg> m4n1sh: apt-file search dh_xul-ext should've helped
[20:22] <m4n1sh> micahg: thanks for the tip
[20:23] <geser> m4n1sh: or you search on packages.ubuntu.com for files named "xul_ext.pm" (see your failure message)
[20:24] <m4n1sh> hmm
[20:24] <m4n1sh> never ever tried doing searches for files on p.u.c
[20:24] <m4n1sh> only tried package name search
[20:24] <geser> "Search the contents of packages" on that page
[20:24] <m4n1sh> hmm. Thanks
[20:24] <m4n1sh> learnt a lot :)


 OvenWerks / Erich when you guys get the chance. I am trying to connect a Zoom H1 via usb to use as a live mic/sound card. I know I have done this before, but I can't for the life of me get the ubuntu studio to see the card (aplay -l doesn't list it, but i see it under lsusb devices) using 18.04 with backport repository. any idea wha
[14:57] <studiobot> t might be going pearshaped, or how I can get the computer to recognize it manually. (I know I used to run a command to get it to work, but I can't find it in my notes xD)
 @azbulutlu [OvenWerks / Erich when you guys get the chance.  I get it. I was working on my computer last night, came up with a task, and couldn't remember what I was doing after the first stop.
 studio-user340 I believe it is something like you need to disable fast boot. or a windows setting that keeps those folders locked.
 I'll look it up and get back to you unless someone else beats me to it
 Eickmeyer I normally note stuff like this in a nice zim-wiki somehow completely forgot to do it for this. Going to amend that now xD
[15:07] <Eickmeyer> studio-user340: Which version of Ubuntu?
[15:09] <Eickmeyer> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[15:09] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: azbulutlu = eylul-
 @azbulutlu [studio-user340 I believe it is something like you need to disable fast boot. or …], They left, ping time-out.
 :))