[23:03] <dieki> It's been almost a month now since 10.04 and the new branding, but all the Ubuntu sites (ubuntu.com, wiki.ubuntu.com, ubuntuforums.org, etc.) all seem to still be using the old branding. Why is that? Will they be updated? Or will that not happen until Maverick?
[23:13] <newz2000> dieki: soon.
[23:14] <dieki> Cool, I'm eagerly looking forward to it. :)


[16:00]  * slangasek waves
[16:01] <sil2100> o/
[16:01] <rbalint> o/
[16:01] <cyphermox> o/
[16:02] <philroche> o/
[16:02] <Odd_Bloke> \o
[16:03] <philroche> Damn it Odd_Bloke! we're waving with our left hand this week
[16:03] <slangasek> sorry, running late on a prior meeting
[16:03]  * slangasek shuffles papers
[16:03] <Odd_Bloke> philroche: I'm facing the other way.
[16:03] <cyphermox> philroche: wasn't that our right hand?
[16:03] <xnox> "the other side of the hangout" =)
[16:04] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb  8 16:04:03 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:04] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
[16:05] <gaughen> o/
[16:05] <slangasek> doko mwhudson juliank cyphermox rcj rbalint xnox sil2100 philroche Odd_Bloke slangasek infinity bdmurray tdaitx fginther tribaal
[16:05] <slangasek> doko: hello!
[16:05] <doko> oops
[16:05] <doko> - FOSDEM Free Java track
[16:05] <doko> - spent most of the time working on migration ...
[16:05] <doko> - GCC 8 uploaded, binutils fixed (arm64 kernel builds)
[16:05] <doko> - some phone calls this week
[16:05] <doko> (done)
[16:06] <slangasek> juliank:
[16:06] <juliank> merges / syncs:
[16:06] <juliank> - wget: just a new upstream minor release
[16:06] <juliank> - dash: dropping the profiled guiding patches, as there's no measurable gain anymore with systemd booting us
[16:06] <juliank> uploaded fixes / features:
[16:06] <juliank> - multipath-tools: fixed kpartx regression breaking image builds (bug 1747044)
[16:06] <juliank> - ubuntu-release-upgrader: only add valid releases (bug 1744722)
[16:06] <juliank> - util-linux: backported lscpu fixes, but blocked by other upload stuck in proposed (bug 1732865)
[16:06] <juliank> - software-properties: run apt-get update
[16:06] <juliank> needs review:
[16:06] <juliank> - ubuntu-release-upgrader: double check source release https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/ubuntu-release-upgrader/double-check-source-release/+merge/337258 (bug 1725359)
[16:06] <juliank> - grub2: show shorter version on screen, hide complete one in variable https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/grub/+git/ubuntu/+merge/337338 (bug 1723434)
[16:06] <juliank> - socat, pv: MIRs. socat might be hard - it overlaps a lot with netcat, previous attempt was cancelled (bug 1746891 [pv])
[16:06] <juliank> WiP stuff (upstreams):
[16:06] <juliank> - apt: (1) Make it check that 'Date' is not from the future; (2) Switch to C++14, and some cleanup
[16:06] <juliank> - multipath-tools: Forwarding the patches for the regression upstream, needs some rework
[16:06] <juliank> I guess I should get that stuck apt SRU from last year forward too.
[16:06] <juliank> (done)
[16:07] <sil2100> This mwhudson guy, always missing our weekly meetings...
[16:07] <sil2100> Shame on him
[16:07] <xnox> juliank, the overlap is known.... is it possible to use netcat on the images that use socat, per chance?
[16:07] <cyphermox> - debugging grub2 tftp with slangasek
[16:07] <cyphermox> - netplan: added bash completion
[16:07] <cyphermox> - netplan: upstream systemd work to support keeping an interface offline but configured at boot
[16:07] <cyphermox> - debugging ubuntu-server:live build w/ preinstalled subiquity snap
[16:07] <cyphermox> - juju-core SRU of 2.3.2 to xenial
[16:07] <cyphermox> - MIR: reviewing libfastjson
[16:07] <cyphermox> - various cat herding / administrativia
[16:07] <cyphermox> (done)
[16:08] <juliank> xnox: I guess somebody else knows more about that :)
[16:08] <rbalint> (short week)
[16:08] <rbalint> * fix opengcs FTBFS (upstreamed): LP: #1746697
[16:08] <rbalint> * fixed tests for mtd-utils (#889868), now it is in proper shape for MIR
[16:08] <rbalint> * internal image testing and testbed setup follow-ups
[16:08] <rbalint> (done)
[16:09] <bdmurray> xnox: your turn
[16:09] <xnox> #HIGHLIGHT openssl1.1.0 is landing in Ubuntu
[16:09] <xnox> Upgrading opencryptoki to 3.8.2
[16:09] <xnox> Upgrading systemd to 237 (autopkgtests fixing stage)
[16:09] <xnox> Ubuntu-keyring now ships more keys - e.g. cloud images, simplestreams, dbg
[16:09] <xnox> Keyboard step moved earlier in ubiquity (with sil2100)
[16:09] <xnox> (done)
[16:10] <bdmurray> sil2100:
[16:10] <sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
[16:10] <sil2100> - Stable kernel reviews and releases (retpoline incoming)
[16:10] <sil2100> - Fixing and testing autopilot tests for the early-keyboard ubiquity branch
[16:10] <sil2100>   * Released by xnox
[16:10] <sil2100> - Fixing the ppp FTBFS after the openssl1.1 rebuild
[16:10] <sil2100> - walinuxagent:
[16:10] <sil2100>   * Preparing, testing and releasing for bionic
[16:10] <sil2100>   * Backporting to stable series, pre-SRU testing, getting approved
[16:10] <sil2100>   * Phil prepared test images, waiting for MS to do their testing
[16:10] <sil2100> - Fixing the packageset refreshing scripts for bionic
[16:10] <sil2100> - Updating the kubuntu packageset as per request
[16:10] <sil2100> - Clean-up of unverified xenial language-packs from -proposed
[16:10] <sil2100> - Preparing branch for KPI metrics for canonical-foundations bugs
[16:10] <sil2100> - Some ubuntu-image discussions with Loic
[16:10] <sil2100> (done)
[16:11] <bdmurray> sil2100: Are you using Influx DB?
[16:11] <philroche> * Cloud image build system Vanguard
[16:11] <bdmurray> philroche:
[16:11] <philroche> * Cloud image build system maintenance & development
[16:11] <philroche> * walinuxagent testing
[16:11] <philroche> * Released ubuntu-watch-packages snap
[16:11] <philroche> (done)
[16:11] <Odd_Bloke> * (POTENTIAL HIGHLIGHT) Backported upstream code to move Vagrant from using Atlas to Vagrant Cloud for boxes, due to Atlas API endpoints being shut down (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1747426); community testing of the fixes strongly encouraged
[16:11] <bdmurray> Odd_Bloke:
[16:11] <Odd_Bloke> * Spent some time helping the MAAS team fix a bug with deploying precise images (for ESM customers)
[16:11] <Odd_Bloke> * Filed a bug I found while using bionic: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1748029
[16:11] <Odd_Bloke> * A variety of partner work
[16:11] <Odd_Bloke> (done)
[16:11] <sil2100> bdmurray: no, the old prometheus thing as with all the original metrics - is that not a thing anymore?
[16:11] <Odd_Bloke> slangasek:
[16:12] <bdmurray> sil2100: that's not the new hotness
[16:12] <xnox> Odd_Bloke, +!
[16:12] <sil2100> Damn...
[16:12] <xnox> Odd_Bloke, +1
[16:12] <bdmurray> sil2100: lets talk after this
[16:12] <Odd_Bloke> xnox: +1 to...?
[16:12] <xnox> mutter bug about dragging things
[16:12] <rbalint> Odd_Bloke: it is for you, personally :-)
[16:13] <Odd_Bloke> xnox: I think I'm on X, not Wayland.
[16:13] <slangasek>  * proposed-migration: trying to unstick the world
[16:13] <slangasek>  * autopkgtests: shepherding the infrastructure
[16:13] <slangasek>   * BOS01 compute moved to BOS02 for a redeploy of BOS01 region
[16:13] <slangasek>   * Tracked various glitches that were causing test runners to die
[16:13] <slangasek>   * Optimized the arm64 runners to give them a boost, now the runner setup takes < 3m per dispatch instead of 8+m
[16:13] <Odd_Bloke> Because we aren't shipping Wayland as the default in bionic.
[16:13] <slangasek>  * closed out on grub2 tftp (LP: #1743249)
[16:13] <slangasek>  * discussions around retpoline in 18.04
[16:13] <slangasek>  * discussions around openjdk security support in 18.04
[16:13] <slangasek> (done)
[16:13]  * xnox needs to doublecheck what i am running
[16:13]  * fginther wishes he knew about that BOS01 thing yesterday
[16:13] <bdmurray> irc discussion with web ops re: mojo spec and certs and sm-cert
[16:13] <bdmurray> irc discussion with webops regarding sm-cert and its usage
[16:13] <bdmurray> tested sm-cert with daisy.staging.u.com errors.staging.u.com
[16:13] <bdmurray> modified mojo spec to use certs created by sm-cert
[16:13] <bdmurray> submitted RT re review of latest ET mojo spec MP
[16:14] <bdmurray> modified (and tested) mojo spec MP after reviewer feedback
[16:14] <bdmurray> submitted RT re request for pagerduty account
[16:14] <bdmurray> setup pagerduty account for ET monitoring
[16:14] <bdmurray> submitted RT regarding ET mojo spec setup in CI
[16:14] <bdmurray> dug into apport test failure w/ new gdb and fixed it (string change)
[16:14] <bdmurray> bug triage of apport bug LP: #1746874
[16:14] <bdmurray> modified bug-bot to tag bugs v-failed-$release for slangasek
[16:14] <bdmurray> modified w.u.c/EndOfLifeProcess for fixing rmadison
[16:14] <bdmurray> created an image sizes KPI and submitted a PR for it
[16:14] <bdmurray> irc dicsussions w/ OddBloke and powersj re: Influx DB vs prometheus
[16:14] <bdmurray> submitted RT re: Influx DB credentials
[16:14] <slangasek> fginther: how do you mean?  I saw MPs last week requesting to move the cloud tests from BOS01 to BOS02 and I thought they landed
[16:14] <bdmurray> modified cloud image sizes KPI to use Influx DB and then to use special time field
[16:14] <bdmurray> submitted PR re: jenkins job for cloud image sizes KPI
[16:14] <bdmurray> backfilled cloud image sizes in Influx DB
[16:14] <bdmurray> done
[16:14] <bdmurray> made a pretty graph of cloud image sizes
[16:14] <bdmurray> investigation into fetchmail, dnscrypt-proxy for LP: 1713803
[16:14] <tdaitx> Short week: half-days this week, out tomorrow [1] flying back home
[16:14] <tdaitx> * At Fosdem in the  free java sessions
[16:14] <tdaitx> * Sorting out what Oracle means about OpenJDK support
[16:14] <tdaitx> * Testing the armhf port for 8u161
[16:14] <tdaitx> * Checking openjdk 9/10 support for packages on main (libreoffice/tomcat)
[16:14] <tdaitx> * Started investigating possible sources of binary incompatibilities between java packages build with 8 and running on openjdk 9 and/or 10
[16:14] <tdaitx> [1] Note: the domestic leg got moved to the next day, I might be taking new flights altogether
[16:14] <tdaitx> (done)
[16:14]  * juliank runs gnome session on X and it hangs a lot for a few seconds each.
[16:15] <fginther> slangasek, those MP only moved one of the arches over, there was still one left on BOS01 this week
[16:15] <slangasek> fginther: mm.
[16:16] <slangasek> fginther: you can tell us more about it now, it's your turn
[16:16] <fginther> * Out sick Monday
[16:16] <fginther> * Cloud-image vanguard
[16:16] <fginther> * Debugged a bionic image build issue: lp: #1747044
[16:16] <fginther> * Updated cloud tests to tolerate a specific platform anomaly
[16:16] <fginther> * Shared some jenkins best practices in a discussion with three other teams doing CI and test automation
[16:16] <fginther> * Writing tests for partner cloud image publication code
[16:16] <fginther> * Investigating work needed for a new image build
[16:16] <fginther> * feeling sad about BOS01
[16:16] <fginther> (done)
[16:16] <tribaal> * Snowboarding most of the week. Mountains <3
[16:16] <tribaal> * Still upgrading our build infrastructure to use snaps.
[16:16] <tribaal> (done)
[16:17] <slangasek> questions on status?
[16:19] <bdmurray> nope
[16:19] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:19] <slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[16:20] <doko> snowboarding!
[16:20] <bdmurray> I tagged 3 bug reports this week for that list
[16:20] <slangasek> so there's a 6-digit bug marked critical
[16:20] <Odd_Bloke> Snowboarding is a feature, not a bug, doko. ;)
[16:20] <bdmurray> bug 940030
[16:21] <juliank> Interesting. We should check what the somewhat-blocked 8.32 does
[16:22] <slangasek> I call shenanigans on that bug, my rsyslog is working fine post-rotation
[16:22] <juliank> I don't have a /var/log/syslog
[16:22] <xnox> slangasek, hmmm.... why do we default to rsyslog, instead of syslog-ng with the journal plugin?
[16:22] <juliank> did we drop it?
[16:22] <slangasek> oh, but *not* /var/log/syslog
[16:22] <juliank> What no, I do
[16:22] <cyphermox> rsyslog and /var/log/syslog work well here.
[16:22] <slangasek> bdmurray: +1 for sorting this out, it should be a quick fix
[16:22] <xnox> slangasek, or why have rsyslog, if journald provides /var/log/syslog facility by itself too
[16:23] <slangasek> xnox: why not bikeshed?
[16:23] <juliank> If we could get rid of rsyslog in main
[16:23] <juliank> it would solve our problem with it depending on fastjson now :D
[16:23] <slangasek> xnox: you mean the syslog-ng that's been stuck in -proposed for a release cycle, right?
[16:23] <cyphermox> juliank: replacing it with something else with still requiring MIRing something
[16:23] <xnox> slangasek, heh
[16:23] <slangasek> anyway, taking 940030 for the stack; yes it wants follow-through
[16:23] <juliank> cyphermox: yeah, but hopefully not a second library, a fork of something we have
[16:24] <cyphermox> juliank: meh
[16:24] <cyphermox> slangasek: was there another bug?
[16:24] <slangasek> bdmurray: what else?
[16:24] <bdmurray> bug 1089195
[16:24] <xnox> ouch
[16:25] <juliank> I think there's a more general autoremoval thing for that
[16:25] <rbalint> imo we should take that, i'm working on update-manager to remove newly unused packages
[16:25] <slangasek> that sounds like a straight duplicate of the kernel autoremoval bug
[16:25] <cyphermox> +1
[16:25] <rbalint> slangasek: yes, mostly
[16:25] <juliank> It is precisely the bug rbalint is working on, yes
[16:26] <juliank> well headers instead of kernels, but that makes no difference
[16:26] <slangasek> not mostly, if the work on kernel autoremovals doesn't exactly fix this bug then the work on kernel autoremovals is incomplete
[16:26] <rbalint> it is almost the same, because the existing headers are not newly unused, but i would like to covert that, too, yes
[16:26] <juliank> I also have that stuff on my apt auto-auto-removal idea thing
[16:26] <slangasek> can someone who knows where the lead bug is for that work dupe this to it?
[16:27] <juliank> rbalint: that applies to the kernel images too
[16:27] <slangasek> juliank, rbalint: can one of you find the bug to dupe this to, and we'll move on?
[16:27] <rbalint> juliank: yes
[16:28] <slangasek> bdmurray: next?
[16:28] <bdmurray> bug 1746874
[16:28] <juliank> slangasek: done
[16:29] <bdmurray> "Xwayland and gnome-shell are co-dependent processes. If one crashes then the other will also crash. So we need apport to be capable of handling both crashes simultaneously.
[16:29] <rbalint> juliank: done by, me, too :-)
[16:29] <juliank> rbalint: lol
[16:29] <slangasek> bdmurray: huh
[16:30] <cyphermox> wow
[16:30] <bdmurray> because apport is already running it aborts
[16:30] <slangasek> bdmurray: that's an interesting symptom, yes let's follow up
[16:30] <slangasek> (claiming)
[16:31] <cyphermox> weird, I would have thought you'd just have a second apport running in that case
[16:31] <bdmurray> Its trying to stop the system from being dos'ed
[16:31] <slangasek> cyphermox: bug suggests that because core_use_pid isn't set, something (kernel or apport) treats them as identical
[16:31] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:31]  * juliank pretends its a kernel bug
[16:31] <slangasek> anyway, claimed
[16:31] <bdmurray> What no
[16:32] <bdmurray> ERROR: apport (pid 1946) Mon Feb 5 12:05:58 2018: another apport instance is already running, aborting
[16:32] <cyphermox> slangasek: yes
[16:32] <juliank> bdmurray: so it's an apport feature :D
[16:32] <cyphermox> well, I'm surprised at that, because you could conceivable have more than one process crash very close to each other.
[16:32] <juliank> it should queue them up I guess
[16:32] <slangasek> xnox: LP: #1739672 is still in 'incoming' and only marked triaged, is that fix-committed yet or not?
[16:32] <bdmurray> "This avoids bringing down the system to its knees if there is a series of crashes"
[16:32] <cyphermox> and all that it's doing is the pipe thing to start apport
[16:32] <juliank> but you probably do want some crash dropping?
[16:33] <bdmurray> So it was deliberate choice by that guy
[16:33] <slangasek> man, that guy
[16:33] <cyphermox> heh
[16:33] <xnox> slangasek, i have been pinged to fix that in person at fosdem too. I have removed the tag, does that make it off the list?
[16:34]  * juliank blames the guy they shot up into space in a tesla
[16:34] <slangasek> xnox: are you telling me it's NOT fix committed yet?
[16:34] <bdmurray> maybe just disabling that check on devel releases is good enough
[16:34] <xnox> slangasek, there are autopkgtests failures in systemd that i'm fixing it.
[16:35] <xnox> slangasek, (umockdev + udisks mis-compat with udev)
[16:35] <slangasek> xnox: that doesn't actually answer my question
[16:35] <xnox> slangasek, it is not fix committed, as in, it is not in bionic-proposed.
[16:35] <slangasek> xnox: if it's committed to the package vcs, it's fix-committed
[16:35] <slangasek> and we should mark it as such so you can take it off my nag list ;)
[16:35] <cyphermox> bdmurray: I wonder if queueing the crashes would be so bad
[16:37] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything else on bugs?
[16:37] <bdmurray> slangasek: Not from me
[16:37] <slangasek> ok, anyone else? :)
[16:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:38] <slangasek> aaaand anything else?
[16:39] <xnox> done
[16:39] <gaughen> no
[16:39] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:39] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb  8 16:39:42 2018 UTC.
[16:39] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-02-08-16.04.moin.txt
[16:39] <slangasek> thanks!


[01:47] <OvenWerks> zequence: starting with Xubuntu-core and then starting to add studio to it. jackd2 sure pulls a lot of other stuff in, but we would normally get it anyway.
[01:49] <OvenWerks> I added the audio and kernel then started looking at our themes and desktop. I installed -backdrops... and none of those are current :) But they do go well with the default xubuntu theme. So I thought maybe the backdrop is in -look...
[01:55] <OvenWerks> -look pulls in more stuff than we need if we are basing off xubuntu-core.
[01:59] <OvenWerks> What is ubuntustudio-sounds? Do we use this? elementary-icon-theme... we could just as easy put our icon theme on top of the -Xfce-darker theme xubuntu uses. gnome-icon-theme-full? xubuntu uses the gnome default. Murrine-themes... I think we have been using greybird for 4 years now, maybe not pull this stuff in.
[02:00] <OvenWerks> zequence: what I am saying is maybe we should base Studio more solidly on Xubuntu so that their testing covers almost everything besides our audio/video tweaks and metas.
[02:09] <OvenWerks> I don't have a problem with extra wallpapers, but aligning our themes with xubuntu just makes sense. We have had more than one bad iso just based on theme changes. Really, take xubuntu and put our backdrop in and it changes the whole look. They have a corrected default applications menu that works with the Studio menu stub with no editting. Both in the applications menu as well as wisker... wisker just needs three more clicks to get at a
[02:17] <OvenWerks> zequence: I think I will DL the full xubuntu and see if there is anything that needs to be taken out for our use. we may be better basing off of that.
[08:03] <zequence> OvenWerks: We are supposed to make our stuff desktop agnostic, which goes against basing our stuff more closely on Xubuntu
[08:04] <zequence> PA will autload modules that are set to be autoloaded in PA settings
[08:06] <zequence> ubuntustudio-sounds is an old package from gnome2 days. It should be removed from the archive
[08:07] <zequence> Theming should change at least each LTS. And we change at least the wallpaper. As for the DE theme, that will depend on the DE we are using.
[08:08] <zequence> My though is we should try to use a dark variant for theming, as it is the standard for multimedia production - especially video and graphics
[08:08] <zequence> But, don't think there are good ones for all DEs.
[08:09] <zequence> Gnome has a dark variant for Adwaita, which is not bad actually.
[08:25] <zequence> Unity is only half-dark. The panels, but not the content
[08:25] <zequence> Same with a few other themes
[08:32] <zequence> astraljava: If you want to get up to speed with how we do planning nowadays, check out this page in the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CoreTeamDocumentation
[08:44] <zequence> I'm making blueprints for the X release (16.04). That is the end goal. For 15.10, we'll include whatever is finished, except for theming which I think we should not change until 16.04 (only the backdrop - if someone makes one for us)
[10:33] <zequence> OvenWerks: About jack_control, it makes more sense to study the dbus implementation that jackdbus uses. Been a while since I was working on it, but you can look at the jack_control script for some clues.
[10:33] <zequence> Also, you'll probably want to look up how dbus works.
[10:34] <zequence> Basically, you can both control and get status changes from dbus, depending on what jackdbus is programmed to do
[10:35] <zequence> One can find out the interface for jackdbus by talking to dbus
[12:30] <zequence> I'm calling out for contributors on G+, fb and twitter today
[12:30] <zequence> As well as the mail list
[12:38] <elfy> zequence: I'll be about for testcases if that helps
[12:38] <zequence> elfy: Alright, thanks
[12:38] <elfy> if you intend to use them of course :)
[12:39] <zequence> I'm still planning on writing some test cases. Would be more fun if someone was available to test them as well :)
[12:39] <elfy> tell me about it ;)
[12:40] <zequence> DalekSec: Anything special you would like to contribute with the coming one or two cycles?
[12:42] <elfy> zequence: all I would say more at this point is that the decision to use them and then the bulk of that testcase work to be done in the next cycle, by the time LTS starts you'll have fun trying to get things done in time to use them
[12:43] <zequence> elfy: I'm hoping we can get as much done within this cycle, so we can just relax and focus on polishing for the LTS
[12:44] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TestingTeamPage/Testcases
[12:44] <elfy> is where we got to
[12:45] <zequence> elfy: Yep. Thanks.
[12:45] <elfy> I'll likely have more time during this coming cycle than the LTS one
[12:45] <elfy> just ping me - or send people my way if that helps
[12:45] <zequence> elfy: Will do
[12:59] <astraljava> zequence: Ok, will do. Thanks!
[14:09] <OvenWerks> zequence: I was also talking about DE themes. We ship the murrina themes which we don't even use
[14:12] <OvenWerks> I think there is only one icon in the icon theme too. so if we could add it on the fly having it depend on whatever the user is using... or make it's name unique enough to just add it to high color like we do with the rest.
[14:13] <OvenWerks> zequence: what I am saying is that there seems to be a lot fo stuff we are shipping that we don't need to.
[14:13] <OvenWerks> if we were to ship a DE theme, we have to make sure ti works with all the DEs.
[14:14] <OvenWerks> This means it should work just as well with kde and unity.
[14:15] <OvenWerks> If we can make our ISO easy, then we have more energy left for doing a DE agostic setup.
[14:17] <OvenWerks> zequence: Speaking of DE agnostic, I don't suppose it is possible (or makes sense) to use the ISO as a package repo for adding workflow packages to other DEs?
[14:32] <zequence> OvenWerks: If we ever go back to having our own theme, then yes, it will need to support all DEs.
[14:32] <zequence> OvenWerks: I haven't paid much attention to the theming details as I'm not the one who has been involved in implementing them
[14:33] <zequence> I have no idea about the last one.
[14:33] <zequence> Problem with the last one is still RT privilege.
[14:33] <zequence> (all though we could arrange that with a script in our audio-core meta
[14:36] <OvenWerks> zequence: RT may be needed for video as well... though possibly only for those who use both video and audio anyway (which should probably be all of them)
[14:41] <OvenWerks> zequence: is the Liquorix Kernel in debian http://liquorix.net/ any better than our lowlatency? Should we be trying to use something like it? Can we use it as is from the debian repo?
[14:42] <OvenWerks> Actually it says it is compatible with ubuntu
[14:45] <OvenWerks> Video meta should at least contain the availablility to put cpu in performance. Some users of laptops may want to preserve their battery at slower speed for some things, but I have talked with some people who say that performance mode makes a large difference in render speed.
[14:46] <OvenWerks> Graphics may find the same.
[14:55] <OvenWerks> zequence: under core-topic-x we need -installer. I don't know if it would be part of the DE-agnostic BP or in core itself. I can see it being used two ways 1) add more sw to our install 2) add Studio to another preinstalled DE.
[14:55] <cub> zequence, I hoping to be around a lot more now for the next cycles. Should try to catch up and install 15.04. Hmm and Debian Jessie perhaps...
[14:57] <zequence> OvenWerks: If you mean ubuntustudio-installer, that's under applications
[14:57] <OvenWerks> zequence: it would be really nice to bring the GUI for ubiquity to the desktop.
[14:57] <OvenWerks> ok, that is fine
[14:57] <OvenWerks> -installer that we have is not very nice
[14:58] <OvenWerks> (it also chokes on Jackd2 install right now)
[15:00] <OvenWerks> The new installer has never been uploaded, but a) I don't know if it fixes this, b) the ubiquity code is much nicer so I don't want to spend time on it.
[15:01] <OvenWerks> Ah, Applications makes sense now.
[15:04] <OvenWerks> zequence: we will use the same bluprints for w as well as x?
[15:09] <zequence> OvenWerks: Same blueprints, yes. We just do the same thing twice, until we have got all of our stuff in.
[15:25] <OvenWerks> zequence: makes sense. It would be nice to have the main work done for w and refine for x. But more realisticly, anything we get done in w will be great. Movement at all will be great. (V has been very slow)
[15:37] <OvenWerks> zequence: looking at -icon-theme there is literally only one icon in there that needs to be (or should be). That is distributor-logo.png (in a number of sizes). The rest can be a part of -menu where the rest are.
[15:40] <OvenWerks> changing the index.theme to point at a DE specific theme would make this package work with any DE. I am not sure if this means we need to make 5 themes or if we can make just one theme based on the installed DE at install time.
[15:43] <OvenWerks> In the same package we could have ubuntustudio-xfce, ubuntustudio-kde, etc. using the smae icons (symlink) with just a different index.theme that Inherits a reasonable DE specific icon theme.
[15:46] <OvenWerks> Or, if there will be a default-settings package per DE, this could be dropped in there... I don't know what makes sense.
[15:49] <zequence> We shoud use one theme for all, if possible
[15:50] <zequence> The symlinks sounds good
[15:52] <holstein> i was thinking, it may be ideal to clarify contributions.. and maybe the team roles
[15:53] <holstein> if we can just pull in most or all of the desktop,etc, from xubuntu, which, would be a nice way to do it, since they are already doing that work, and doing it well..
[15:53] <holstein> we could let folks know that contributing upstream to xubuntu would help US, and exactly how.. and not be duplicating efforts, hopefully
[15:54] <holstein> and also, clarify what it is that this team is responsible for
[15:58] <OvenWerks> holstein: I am actively working on bassing an ISO from xubuntu-core.
[16:01] <elfy> OvenWerks: could be :D
[16:02] <OvenWerks> However, I am hoping that the work I do there will help with other DEs as well.
[16:02] <holstein> it could be attractive on many levels.. support, etc
[16:02] <OvenWerks> elfy: :)
[16:02] <holstein> i like the idea of making sure things "just work" on other DE's.. as well
[16:04] <OvenWerks> holstein: the little bit I have done with xubuntu-core just works.. the only thing being setting up RT permissions has to be done manually still. but ubuntustudio-controls will fix that.
[16:05] <OvenWerks> kubuntu in the past has been the same.
[16:07] <OvenWerks> lubuntu also has a broken menu file problem... bugged with fix attached but considered a non-problem "won't fix"
[16:07] <OvenWerks> gnome3 has the same menu file bug and unity doesn't have a menu anyway really.
[16:08] <OvenWerks> gnome doesn't reall have a menu unless one takes extra steps to add one as well.
[16:09] <OvenWerks> Effectively, all tyhe DEs except maybe Lubuntu, are moving away from menus anyway.
[16:13] <OvenWerks> KDE maintains the classic menu as well as a whisker-like menu, but also has a more unity/gnome/android like mode. This is fine for most computer uses, but Studio ships so many apps that we need to have some way of organizing the apps so the user a) knows what they have available b) knows what apps are apropriate for what tasks (audacity should not be used for tracking) c) doesn't have to scroll down forever looking for zita-at1.
[16:22]  * OvenWerks wonders how hard writing an xfce panel aplet that host either whisker or the appmenu would be. This would allow switching between the two without removing one and installing the other.
[16:38] <elfy> it really is only a small point I make here
[16:42] <elfy> and it acan wait
[16:43] <OvenWerks> elfy: :)
[16:43]  * OvenWerks is off to play some music
[16:46] <holstein> personally, i think we should also have a talk about the suggestion of *not* having a distro
[16:47] <holstein> having more just the packages that you add to whatever distro you are using
[16:47] <holstein> at the beginning of one of the cycles would be the best time to discuss this..
[16:47] <holstein> i thought it was a great idea when someone proposed it, but, it was like 3 weeks before the release of one of the distros ;)
[16:58] <zequence> As long as there's interest in maintaining an ISO, I think it will endure
[16:58] <zequence> It's up to those who do the work
[16:58] <zequence> Doesn't mean we should make Ubuntu Studio work easily on any flavor, which is exactly what we're planning to do now
[16:59] <zequence> One doesn't replace the other. They can co-exist
[17:00] <zequence> Sorry, I miswrote. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make Ubuntu Studio easily work on any flavor...
[17:00] <zequence> holstein: Frankly, I'd like to see more ideas on what to do, rather on what not to do :)
[17:08] <holstein> zequence: its not like that
[17:08] <holstein> i seriously think its a constructive idea to consider
[17:09] <holstein> covering adaptation into any DE, for example
[17:09] <holstein> im not saying they cant coexsist, and as you are making perfectly clear, its your boat.. steer it as you please
[17:21] <zequence> Didn't realize mythbuntu is only doing LTS releases
[17:21] <holstein> i didnt realize it was an official flavor
[17:22] <holstein> yeah.. "community supported add on"..
[17:22] <zequence> It's an official flavor
[17:23] <zequence> http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/flavours
[17:23] <zequence> Ubuntu Mate is missing from that list. They just started out
[17:24] <holstein> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFlavors is where i read "community supported addon"
[17:26] <holstein> its all "community supported".. so, whatever
[17:26] <holstein> i havent looked at it in ages to know if they included something outside the repos..
[17:27] <holstein> looks like they have a google sites page..
[17:27] <holstein> i dont know anyone from that project AFAIK..
[17:27] <zequence> Think they are pretty quiet on IRC
[17:31] <zequence> 12k likes on our facebook page. That's probably about 10k in the past two years or so, since we became more active with it
[17:31] <zequence> On Twitter, we have 254 followers. Twitter, I don't get
[17:32] <zequence> Less than 2k have us in their circles in G+
[17:33] <zequence> Xubuntu has 12k likes on their fb page, as comparison. So, we're not doing too bad
[17:39] <holstein> assuming thats a correlation, sure
[17:43] <zequence> On G+ Xubuntu has almost 7k followers.
[17:50] <DalekSec> Liquorix does work in Ubuntu, not sure how well with LTS releases though (as you could guess, I may know a couple things about it. :P )  I'm not sure how it ranks in lowlat, as I don't use it for that.  As far as anything special for US?  No idea, zequence, my media needs aren't high.
[18:00] <holstein> OvenWerks: so, were you around when someone suggested *not* having a release?
[18:01] <holstein> how do you feel about that? or the LTS only?
[18:01] <holstein> DalekSec: are there any "gotchas" as far as hardware support?
[18:08] <DalekSec> holstein: dkms worked fine for nvidia and vboxhost modules at least, all other hardware tends to work fine.  Weirdly, plymouth's bootsplash only works for Liquorix, not the stock kernels on one computer.
[18:09] <holstein> DalekSec: interesting. you think thats GPU related?
[18:09] <holstein> i have nvidia, and it used to act quite odd with rt kernels with the boot splash.. under 10.04, and also 12.04
[18:10] <DalekSec> I couldn't say what it is, both right now are the same upstream version.
[18:10] <holstein> sometimes, its challenging to isolate, and know
[18:10] <DalekSec> Also, Liquorix isn't rt, just preempt.
[18:10] <holstein> yup
[18:12] <DalekSec> Uses bfq as well.
[18:12] <holstein> mhm.. i have installed it in the past
[18:12] <holstein> and i had used a distro that shipped it.. i cant remember what one that was.. years ago..
[18:12] <DalekSec> IMO, it's the best out of repo kernel there is, and a good option.  I suppose you could mention it.
[18:12] <DalekSec> holstein: Sidux?
[18:13] <holstein> DalekSec: likely sidux.. i do remember looking specifically as sidux
[18:13] <holstein> at*
[18:16] <DalekSec> (Great option, as someone that doesn't need a lowlat or rt kernel, that is.)
[18:16] <holstein> what do you use it for?
[18:17] <holstein> you use it for getting lower latency? correct?
[18:17] <holstein> i always saw it as something with the side effect of being similar to RT
[18:17] <holstein> similar effects
[18:20] <DalekSec> I use it as an alternative kernel, but have zero need for low latency.
[18:37] <DalekSec> holstein: Only thing to be aware of, repos also contains: sopcast-player sp-auth vmtouch wine1.7 xen-linux-system-3.19-4.dmz.1-liquorix exfalso quodlibet wine
[22:36] <OvenWerks> holstein: I have been quiietly and not so quietly trying our metas, kernels amd menus with different DE ISOs.
[22:38] <OvenWerks> I think even if we do an ISO as Studio on top of xubuntu, it is worth having our own ISO.
[22:40] <OvenWerks> The big thing we need for being able to do "on top of" installs is an installer that can actually install jackd2 properly and a controls package that can deal with RT priv.
[22:41] <OvenWerks> holstein: as you may have read above, I am looking at making our icon package/theme work with all the DEs.
[22:44] <OvenWerks> holstein: as I have also mentioned, we provide a lot of packages and need to make as organized a presentation to users as possible. We came up with a menu stub that should work with any (XDG compliant) DE. (even FVWM has ways to fake this)
[22:45] <OvenWerks> holstein: however, the DE world seems to be in a rush towards the android style of things with just favourite apps available easily and search through the whole bunch for anything else using a search engine.
[22:48] <OvenWerks> It works really well for the average user who uses less than 10 applications in day to day computing or those who are keyboard search literate (I'm not). The world the win95 menu was built for is still there, but is a smaller percentage of the computing population.
[22:50] <OvenWerks> holstein: Studio needs to find a way to organize our apps so the user does not get lost in the large number of applications to do with media.
[22:51] <OvenWerks> *media creation
[22:55] <OvenWerks> The one common thing to all the DEs (for now) is that there is a systray (or it`s new counterpart). It is possible to put a workflow applet or menu in there for all DEs ... one package that should just work.
[22:55] <DalekSec> Well, unity only has indicators, no tray.
[22:56] <OvenWerks> indicators was the word I was looking for. I think there is a tool kit that will look for both and use indicators if it can
[22:58] <OvenWerks> Indicators are supposed to be more system integrated and more flexable.
[22:59] <OvenWerks> There are some panels that can not see indicators though, so looking also for system tray is a backup.
[23:00] <OvenWerks> DalekSec: indicators is technology we have to get used to if we are thinking cross DE.
[23:01]  * OvenWerks needs to install vanilla and see what works/not
[23:02] <DalekSec> Likely.  Some things don't support them, thus don't show up in Unity but work just about everywhere else. :P
[23:02] <DalekSec> Also, trayicons can well have more features still.
[23:03] <OvenWerks> What is the applet we use for audio? I thought that was an indicator.
[23:04] <OvenWerks> (it seems to be pretty featureful)
[23:04] <DalekSec> You use indicator-sound, that's slightly different.  There's indicators and application indicators.
[23:04]  * OvenWerks looks blank :)
[23:05] <OvenWerks> I guess I am asking if it works with unity.
[23:05] <OvenWerks> I expect qjackctl's tray icon ay not.


[00:17] <inscw00table> Any netplan wizards know the syntax/tricks (if any) for requesting multiple dhcp4 addresses on the same interface?
[00:23] <sarnold> that's an interesting question, I can't recall seeing it raised before
[00:42] <inscw00table> I'm pretty sure I could do it if I used vlans, but don't really need that kind of separation.
[00:43] <tomreyn> can this actually work (without vlans), since dhcp uses arp addressing initially?
[00:43] <sarnold> I poked around the systemd-networkd docs a bit and couldn't spot anything that looked like it would get you there :( maybe I just don't know how to drive it..
[00:44] <sarnold> it looks easy enough to get systemd-network to assign multiple static addresses to an interface, but dhcp? I didn't see it :(
[00:44] <sarnold> I assume (without knowing) that you'd have to take some steps to get the one nic to do multiple MACs, and I haven't got a clue how you'd configure that
[00:45] <tomreyn> https://serverfault.com/questions/223601/multiple-mac-addresses-on-one-physical-network-interface-linux
[00:46] <tomreyn> says the internet
[00:46]  * inscw00table nods.
[01:09] <blahdeblah> macvlan seems like the most promising of those options...
[01:13] <sarnold> is 'vlan' is 'macvlan' at all related to 'vlan' the network segmentation tool?
[01:17] <tomreyn> https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2018/10/22/introduction-to-linux-interfaces-for-virtual-networking looks useful for telling these apart
[01:18] <inscw00table> After dinner I will dive down the vlan rabbit hole.
[01:19] <tomreyn> now i'm not sure whether macvlan are only useful / usable with netns
[01:19] <tomreyn> if only they'd taught me networking at school...
[01:21] <sarnold> "Please see the commit message."  -- aka "here be dragons"? :)
[01:21] <tomreyn> :)
[01:22] <sarnold> tomreyn: so, this page here has more than doubled my knowledge on the matter :) buuuut I think the netns in the macvlan section is strictly about making it *easy* to use the different addresses, rather than having to tell the applications which interfaces or addresses to use
[01:23] <tomreyn> if i would be able to remember what i read, this would apply to me as well.
[01:24] <sarnold> :D
[01:24] <tomreyn> so you're saying the macvlan section on this document is strictly about making it *easy* to use the different MAC or IPv4 addresses?
[01:25] <sarnold> you can do ip addr add all you want to add multiple IPs to an address, but they'll all use the same mac
[01:26] <sarnold> the macvlan thing lets you give each ip address their own arp addresses, too
[01:27] <tomreyn> yes, that's what the goal was, wasn't it?
[01:27] <sarnold> I think the bridge *might* let you do the same thing, I'm less sure there :( -- but I think using the tap or veth devices requires something like a netns or vm to use the other half of it..
[01:27] <sarnold> yeah
[01:27] <sarnold> I think blahdeblah's right, the macvlan thing seems most likely to work
[01:31] <tomreyn> i mean the second image at https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2018/10/22/introduction-to-linux-interfaces-for-virtual-networking#macvlan looks as it it should be possible to communicate with multiple MACs on a single physical network interface by using MACVLAN, without a network bridge, and without the network switch (or the other endpoint) being aware of it. but it could also be oversimplified.
[01:32] <sarnold> I think the opening paragraph takes that away "With MACVLAN, you can create multiple interfaces with different Layer 2 (that is, Ethernet MAC) addresses on top of a single one."
[01:32] <tomreyn> the commit message still refers to "VLAN", which makes it sound you would actually need to tag packets, though, so not sure
[01:33] <tomreyn> yes, i liked that first sentence, too, sounds nice and simple :)
[01:33] <inscw00table> Always a good idea to stop reading after the first sentence.
[01:33] <tomreyn> :)
[01:35]  * sarnold nods
[01:35] <sarnold> maybe even just skim it!
[01:36] <tomreyn> chatgpt: make it work for me!
[01:39] <sarnold> :D
[04:24] <ladeda> I have a fresh installation of Ubuntu 22.04 server minimal install, I have the network configured and a default route set but when the host comes up and the network interface comes up it's not arping it's default gateway so no host not on the same subnet can connect to it, how can I fix this?
[04:41] <blahdeblah> ladeda: Put your network configuration along with 'ip route' and 'ip addr' output in a pastebin and we'll be able to help better.
[04:42] <ladeda> Sure, I'll also include the arp table as well.
[04:42] <blahdeblah> sarnold, inscw00table, tomreyn: My understanding of macvlan is that it allows you to set up virtual networking in such a way that the traffic is segregated simply by its MAC address and doesn't need any specific VLAN tags.
[04:42] <blahdeblah> ladeda: good plan :-)
[04:44] <blahdeblah> ladeda: 'ip neigh ls' is the better way to do that nowadays, BTW.
[04:44] <ladeda> Actually just thinking, I can't copy and paste I dont have access to a shell or anything I am accessing the host over KVM...
[04:45] <blahdeblah> Links to screenshots are OK, as long as the text is clearly legible.
[04:46] <ladeda> Both those commands pull from the same data in /proc right? so no difference really.
[04:54] <blahdeblah> I believe iproute2 uses the netlink API under the covers rather than reading from /proc, but don't quote me on that.  The important thing is that iproute2 isn't deprecated, whereas the traditional commands like arp, ifconfig, netstat, route, etc. are.
[04:55] <ladeda> Ahh, understood. Thank you for the information.
[05:07] <ladeda> blahdeblah: where do you recommend I upload the screen shots?
[05:08] <blahdeblah> Wherever works for you; imgur or just google "image pastebin"
[05:11] <ladeda> Alright here it is. Just to restate the problem even though the interface is properly configured and has a default gateway set when the interface comes up it never does a gratuitous arp to populate it's arp table with the mac address of it's gateway. https://pasteboard.co/jQXR8foi2I27.png
[05:23] <blahdeblah> Should it be doing a gratuitous ARP by default?  I wouldn't have thought so, but it has been a long time since I've read any RFCs on the matter.  I would normally expect a normal ARP for the gateway MAC, followed by a normal ARP from the gateway for its MAC.  Can you ping the default gateway and then run 'ip neigh ls' again?
[05:23] <ladeda> I can ping the default gateway
[05:24] <ladeda> but that will initiate an ARP and populate the arp table.
[05:24] <blahdeblah> Which is correct..
[05:24] <ladeda> What I can't do is ping the host from outside of the subnet
[05:24] <blahdeblah> Can you grab a packet capture of a ping for the default gateway followed by a ping for a remote host?
[05:24] <ladeda> well let me step back.
[05:24] <ladeda> so I am spinning up this Ubuntu 22.04 through an automated provisioning workflow I am testing
[05:25] <ladeda> so Ill spin it up and then tear it down
[05:25] <ladeda> so the IP it gets is getting a new mac address associated with it every time.
[05:25] <ladeda> my switches are keeping the old mac address and IP in their arp table.
[05:26] <ladeda> so when I spin up a new host with the same IP address but different mac address I can't connect to it until it sends out an garp so the switches know the update their arp table.
[05:27] <blahdeblah> So the switch is the default gateway?
[05:27] <ladeda> every other template I use in this provisioning workflow never have this issue CentOS 7, Rocky, RHEL, not even Ubuntu 18.04 and 20.04 they all send out a garp when the interface comes up, but Ubuntu 22.04 is not
[05:27] <blahdeblah> OK, that's weird
[05:28] <ladeda> and yes the switch would be its default gateway
[05:28] <blahdeblah> But regardless, it shouldn't matter; an ARP who-has for the default gateway address from its IP address should be enough to get the gateway to flush its ARP cache.
[05:29] <blahdeblah> (because the IP/MAC combo doesn't match what's in the gateway's cache)
[05:29] <ladeda> but it never does that
[05:29] <ladeda> It never does any kind of ARPing when the interface comes up
[05:29] <blahdeblah> even when you ping something?
[05:29] <ladeda> bare minimal it should at least being arping the default gateway
[05:29] <ladeda> That would be enough to make this problem not happen, but it is not
[05:29] <ladeda> no
[05:30] <ladeda> if I ping that will trigger the ARP and the problem will resolve.
[05:31] <ladeda> but other distros even other versions of Ubuntu do the arp when the interface comes up they don't wait for some type of network activity internally to happen
[05:31] <ladeda> It would break things like its doing for me :(
[05:34] <blahdeblah> That's definitely not expected; feels like something else is not quite right, like a missing NIC driver or busted config.
[05:34] <blahdeblah> What are you using for network configuration?  Netplan?  ifupdown?
[05:37] <ladeda> Enabling arp_notify doesn't even fix this issue which is unusual.
[05:37] <ladeda> Yes netplan
[19:31] <sarnold> blahdeblah: cool, thanks ;) (re macvlan, vlan tagging)
[19:48] <ladeda> blahdeblah: you think it's a driver issue? I mean once I talk to my gateway then things resolve and the host can be accessed from outside the subnet
[22:39] <rfm> ladeda, I've been doing some poking, and here's what I think:  the key is arp_notify=1 sends a garp when the interface comes up and when the hardware (mac) address has changed, but not when an IP address is added.
[22:40] <rfm> ladeda, interfaces are brought up by the kernel very early (to set up the IPv6 link local address and start looking for router advertisements).
[22:42] <rfm> ladeda, I believe at some point networkd , using the network units created by netplan, started just adding the IP address, not bringing up the interface again since it was already up.
[22:44] <rfm> ladeda, I suspect the other versions that are sending an arp are either bringing up the interface anew (ifup would probably do that) or are doing  something (like fetching the time) which generates a packet going to the gateway, forcing an ARP request to find it.
[22:47] <rfm> ladeda, I see three things you could do: set a MAC address in the netplan, run something at boot that would send something to the gateway, or run a garp (9) command sometime late, like in a oneshot unit dependent on the network unit.
[22:50] <rfm> ladeda, https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=194879 was interesting, and googling on various combos of "arp_notify" and "gratuitous arp" pops up quite a few people who've tripped over this.
[22:50] -ubottu:#ubuntu-server- bugzilla.kernel.org bug 194879 in Networking "arp_notify does not send grace ARP on ip address add" [Low, Resolved: Will_not_fix]
[22:56] <rfm> ladeda, oh- one more thing (which is actually what I do and is why I never see this problem) -- if your gateway is also a dhcp server (as most small-network ones are), configure the interface as dhcp and add the static address you need (probably to port-forward to.)  This works fine, nothing in Linux cares about having multiple IP addresses configured on an interface.
[22:58] <rfm> ladeda, the dhcp transaction would automatically create some traffic on the gateway address and force the ARP query which would clear the poison from the gateway's ARP cache.
[22:59] <rfm> ladeda, and after that burst, I'm gonna take a nap.  Should be back later...
[23:45] <ladeda> rfm: Thank you for looking into it... so you think the interface is coming up before it's actually configured and then netplan is configuring it so no garp goes out?


[01:36] <Sl4y3r1> im trying to install some themes in xfce of xfce-look
[01:36] <Sl4y3r1> and none of them show up in the user interface
[01:36] <Sl4y3r1> any ideas anyone?
[01:37] <Sl4y3r1> ?
[01:40] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: what theme?
[01:40] <Sl4y3r1> LiNsta Black Plastic
[01:40] <Sl4y3r1>
[01:41] <Odd-rationale> !changethemes
[01:41] <Sl4y3r1> moved ive done this
[01:41] <Sl4y3r1> repeatedly
[01:41] <Sl4y3r1> -moved 0.)
[01:42] <Sl4y3r1> and they never show up in the user interface thing
[01:42] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: do you have th link?
[01:42] <Sl4y3r1> http://www.xfce-look.org/content/show.php/LiNsta+Black+Plastic?content=43023
[01:42] <Sl4y3r1> i havent gotten any themes to work
[01:43] <Sl4y3r1> unzipping to the /.themes folder
[01:43] <Odd-rationale> k brb...
[01:53] <Sl4y3r1> ?
[01:58] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: sry, had some troubles with our sink...
[01:58] <Sl4y3r1> lol its ok
[01:59] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: so you have a folder called ~/.themes/                                                                                [58]
[02:00] <Odd-rationale> whoops...
[02:00] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: so you have a folder called ~/.themes/LiNsta-Black-Plastic
[02:00] <Odd-rationale> ?
[02:00] <Sl4y3r1> yeah
[02:00] <Odd-rationale> it is a xfmw4 theme. not a gtk theme...
[02:01] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: so chek the wm settings... not ui settings...
[02:01] <Sl4y3r1> not there either
[02:02] <Odd-rationale> hmm...
[02:06] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: try moving the LiNsta-Black-Plastic folder and all it's contents to /usr/share/xfwm4/themes
[02:06] <Odd-rationale> you need to do it as root...
[02:06] <Sl4y3r1> sec
[02:06] <Odd-rationale> like: sudo cp -fdr ~/.themes/LiNsta-Black-Plastic /usr/share/xfwm4/themes/
[02:10] <Sl4y3r1> nope
[02:10] <Sl4y3r1> nothing
[02:11] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: well, it doesn't look like you are the only one with issues... http://forum.xfce.org/index.php?topic=874.0
[02:11] <Sl4y3r1> yeah
[02:12] <Sl4y3r1> ;s
[02:12] <Sl4y3r1> just found that about 30 secs ago
[02:12] <Sl4y3r1> XD
[02:12] <Odd-rationale> Sl4y3r1: tried #xfce ?
[02:12] <Sl4y3r1> didnt know there was one
[02:21] <LuYu> i need help with mouse cursor themes
[02:22] <LuYu> on a previous install, i was able to change them easily
[02:22] <LuYu> now, no matter what i do, i cant seem to find the website or technique i used to do it
[02:22] <Sl4y3r1> didnt know you could install mouse themes XD im just trying to figure out why none of the desktop themes i use work
[02:22] <Sl4y3r1> XD
[02:23] <Odd-rationale> LuYu: try looking in xfce-look.org
[02:23] <LuYu> i have
[02:23] <LuYu> they have tons of themes
[02:23] <LuYu> but no explanation on how to get them to work
[02:23] <Odd-rationale> LuYu: extract it to ~/.themes
[02:23] <LuYu> ive downloaded a couple of themes
[02:24] <Odd-rationale> LuYu: like which one?
[02:24] <LuYu> i tried that, they didnt show up
[02:24] <LuYu> blueillusion2 is the one ive been trying to make work
[02:24] <LuYu> dont tell me . . . ive been working with a broken theme
[02:24] <Odd-rationale> LuYu: i'm sorry, my mistake. extract to ~/.icons
[02:24] <LuYu> right
[02:24] <LuYu> did that, too
[02:24] <LuYu> didnt work either
[02:25] <Odd-rationale> umm. post the link to the cursos theme... and i'll take a look when i come back...
[02:25] <Sl4y3r1> LuYu whats the link to blue illusion two
[02:25] <Odd-rationale> i need to fix this sink...
[02:25] <LuYu> hold on
[02:25] <LuYu> ill find it
[02:25] <Sl4y3r1> i want a working theme!
[02:25] <Sl4y3r1> XD
[02:26] <LuYu> i cant get the theme to work, so if it works for you then thats one of us
[02:27] <LuYu> http://www.xfce-look.org/content/show.php/BlueIllusion+2?content=88323
[02:27] <LuYu> today is your lucky day
[02:27] <LuYu> i didnt configure galeon to delete all history yet
[02:28] <LuYu> so, i still had the link
[02:28] <LuYu> B-)
[02:29] <LuYu> i think xfce-look.org really needs a tutorial section
[02:30] <LuYu> many people may be unfamiliar with the quirks in its theme behavior
[02:30] <LuYu> i still dont understand why mouse themes go in .icons
[02:30] <Sl4y3r1> i finally got one theme to work
[02:30] <LuYu> they arent really icons
[02:31] <LuYu> :)
[02:31] <LuYu> thats more than i have
[02:31] <Sl4y3r1> but now all my icons i had place in the task bar remain diff colors
[02:31] <Sl4y3r1> x.x
[02:31] <LuYu> well, thats not true
[02:31] <LuYu> the display themes all work
[02:31] <LuYu> its the mouse cursors that dont
[02:31] <Sl4y3r1> ive only had luck with 1 i downloaded
[02:31] <Sl4y3r1> and thats the mac os x one
[02:32] <Sl4y3r1> but my system info on my taskbar still stays the same color it was before applying the theme lol
[02:32] <Sl4y3r1> so i get half of a real nice blue taskbar then boom shit off-white colored buttons
[02:32] <Sl4y3r1> lol
[02:35] <LuYu> hmmm
[02:36] <LuYu> i dont get it
[02:36] <LuYu> this just worked the first time
[02:37] <LuYu> f#$@!ing suspend destroyed my good install, and now i cant figure out what i did
[02:38] <LuYu> anyway, im out of time, so ill have to leave the addition of expletives off for another day
[02:38] <LuYu> thanks for the help
[06:04] <JinKazama> hi all. how a I can to lock my screen when I desire. without wait screensaver .
[06:04] <Odd-rationale> JinKazama: gnome-screensaver-command -l
[06:05] <Odd-rationale> JinKazama: or xscreensaver-command -l if you are using xscreensaver...
[06:06] <JinKazama> is there some way to set thish command on keyboard shortcut ?
[06:06] <JinKazama> *this ...
[06:07] <maxamillion> ctrl+alt+l
[06:07] <Odd-rationale> JinKazama: yep, go to settings --> keyboard
[06:07] <Odd-rationale> yeah, it might already be set...
[06:07] <JinKazama> ctrl+alt+l not work here ...
[06:08] <Odd-rationale> JinKazama: or ctrl+alt+esc
[06:09] <JinKazama> yes I foud it ... its ctrl+alt+delete
[06:09] <JinKazama> xflock4 ..
[06:09] <JinKazama> thanks all :)
[06:09] <Odd-rationale> np
[06:41] <yesitisjustme> can you have 2 gmail email accounts per person or they only allow 1 gmail email account per person?
[13:57] <JinKazama> hi all . how to add a shortcut icon in the menu? In the menu editor there is simply green text that says include and the command is listed as system. I won't to add shortcut in menu Other. how to do this ?
[14:01] <knome> !.desktop
[14:02] <knome> not that
[14:03] <knome> JinKazama, i can't think of any other way than creating a .desktop file
[14:05] <JinKazama> I found in forums something about this but it was very complicated explanation. I can get it :) .
[14:05] <JinKazama> I read for this problem here : http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/how-to-edit-xfce-menu-612491/
[14:06] <knome> JinKazama, so what do you want to add? an application icon?
[14:07] <knome> JinKazama, if so, is the application available in the ubuntu repository?
[14:15] <JinKazama> its form repositiry , byt ntere is no icon in menu. the application is Gisomount
[14:16] <JinKazama> I installed it from the repository
[14:17] <knome> i see
[14:17] <knome> other would possibly not be the right place for it, though
[14:18] <knome> let me make a .desktop file for it, i'll ping you back in a minute
[14:18] <JinKazama> ok :)
[14:18] <knome> or actually check first if it's just hidden
[14:18] <JinKazama> how to find it ?
[14:19] <knome> i'll check it
[14:19] <knome> i just installed it
[14:29] <knome> ok, the .desktop i ready
[14:29] <knome> now just upload it
[14:30] <knome> JinKazama, http://emonk.fi/open/gisomount.desktop
[14:30] <knome> JinKazama, copy to /usr/share/applications
[14:30] <JinKazama> ok
[14:31] <knome> the icon/menu item will be at "system"
[14:35] <JinKazama> just exelent !!!! thank you knome :)
[14:36] <JinKazama> is there some more simple way for this ? :)
[14:38] <knome> not really, if you want to add it in the "normal" menu
[14:38] <knome> but if you look at the file i sent you, it's really quite easy...
[14:40] <JinKazama> yes. I read it. I think that I will make by my self in future if needit :)
[14:40] <JinKazama> thanks knome :)
[15:26] <maestrolinux> hola
[15:26] <Odd-rationale> !hi | maestrolinux
[15:28] <maestrolinux> alguno habla español!!!
[15:28] <Odd-rationale> !es | maestrolinux
[16:21] <lxxlxxl> hi all
[16:21] <lxxlxxl> I need help with my gfx card
[16:23] <lxxlxxl> please
[16:23] <TheSheep> !ask | lxxlxxl
[16:24] <lxxlxxl> ok :)
[16:24] <lxxlxxl> i upgraded my old pc from 7.04 to 8.04 xubunut
[16:25] <lxxlxxl> everything is ok
[16:25] <lxxlxxl> expecpt the video playback
[16:25] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: how did you upgrade from 7.04 to 8.04?
[16:25] <lxxlxxl> firsh install
[16:25] <Odd-rationale> fresh install? ok... good..
[16:26] <lxxlxxl> the vido play pack was great in 7.04
[16:26] <lxxlxxl> now when I use the fullscreen mode
[16:26] <lxxlxxl> it give me pixles
[16:26] <lxxlxxl> and flickers
[16:27] <lxxlxxl> I think i have problem with my x.org file
[16:27] <Odd-rationale> sounds like...
[16:27] <lxxlxxl> I didnt customize it when I used 7.04
[16:27] <Odd-rationale> the new xorg relies more on autodetection...
[16:27] <lxxlxxl> but now i think I have to
[16:28] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: if you still have a copy of your old xorg.conf, you might want to try using it in 8.04
[16:28] <lxxlxxl> :( I dont
[16:29] <lxxlxxl> what if i used the 7.04 liveCD x.org file ?
[16:30] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: that if it works, then you might want to try to copy it...
[16:32] <lxxlxxl> the Q is: I rembber that 7.04 x.org was ok with me; is it possible that during the instlation the x.org chnged from the intial one?
[16:33] <lxxlxxl> if it is the same. I can use the LiveCD one.
[16:34] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: it is possible that th xorg file change after the install, but not always....
[16:35] <lxxlxxl> if i gvre
[16:35] <lxxlxxl> my card {01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: ATI Technologies Inc Rage 128 PF/PRO AGP 4x TMDS [1002:5046]}
[16:36] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: pastbin your current xorg.conf file please...
[16:36] <lxxlxxl> here?
[16:36] <Odd-rationale> no. pastebin
[16:37] <Odd-rationale> !pastebin
[16:38] <lxxlxxl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55684/ you can notice that I tried to edit it
[16:39] <Odd-rationale> ah, you are using the vesa drivers?
[16:39] <lxxlxxl> i tried r128 & ati
[16:39] <Odd-rationale> try running: sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
[16:40] <Odd-rationale> vesa is kinda slow... but rather failsafe...
[16:40] <lxxlxxl> xserver-xorg postinst warning: overwriting possibly-customised configuration
[16:40] <lxxlxxl>    file; backup in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.20081009184029
[16:40] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: ok that's fine...
[16:41] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: now pastebin your new xorg.conf file...
[16:41] <lxxlxxl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55685/
[16:42] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: ok. now try restart x (log out) and see if it is any better...
[16:42] <lxxlxxl> this is the defulat one
[16:43] <lxxlxxl> it didnt work wwith me. so, i tried to chnage it
[16:43] <Belovedmonster> can I use emerald themes without using compiz? seems the only time they get mentioned is when people are using compiz
[16:43] <lxxlxxl> the resulaiton is ok after the change
[16:43] <Odd-rationale> ok. what are you using to play the video?
[16:43] <lxxlxxl> vlc
[16:44] <Odd-rationale> Belovedmonster: afaik, emerald is used only with compiz.
[16:44] <knome> Belovedmonster, confirm
[16:45] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: does this happen only with one certain video? have youtried other videos of other fomarts?
[16:45] <Odd-rationale> formats?
[16:45] <knome> wow, serious typoing ;)
[16:46] <Belovedmonster> :-( bummer, i wanted to add the siki colors theme to my xubuntu as I love it on my gnome computer, but it needs emerald according to xfce look
[16:46] <lxxlxxl> divx xvid
[16:47] <lxxlxxl> this happen with all videos in the fullscreen mode
[16:48] <lxxlxxl> i use my old machine to download & watch videos
[16:50] <knome> Belovedmonster, http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php/New+Wave?content=87134
[16:52] <Belovedmonster> thats not as nice as siki, but as a next best thing its quite pretty :) thanks, i might give it a go
[16:53] <knome> Belovedmonster, np. it's is/was candidate for the default xubuntu 8.10 look
[16:53] <knome> *-s
[16:53] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: have you tried mplayer?
[16:54] <lxxlxxl> i tried totem. mplayer didnt work with me
[16:59] <lxxlxxl> using default xorg can I be sure that the gfx card is confegred properly ?
[17:00] <Odd-rationale> usually, yes...
[17:00] <lxxlxxl> can I find the 7.04 default xorg online ?
[17:01] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: i doubt it...
[17:02] <lxxlxxl> i dont think the problem is related to the codec or the palyer.
[17:02] <lxxlxxl> how can I know if my gfx card is conferged
[17:02] <lxxlxxl> is there any commands for cheking ?
[17:08] <knome> *configured*
[17:08] <lxxlxxl> :-D
[17:12] <mojjog> Hi All. I've just installex xubuntu-desktop , but can't manage to add more workspaces. Via properties, it shows that I have just one row, but nothing more. What could be the problem?
[17:14] <lxxlxxl> go to application > setting > setting manager > workspaces
[17:14] <bytor4232> mojjog: Go to Applications then Settings Manager then Workspaces
[17:14] <bytor4232> lxxlxxl: curses!  I couldn't type fast enough!
[17:14] <lxxlxxl> hehe!
[17:14] <mojjog> :) Thank you bytor4232 ! >:D<
[17:15] <bytor4232> Thank lxxlxxl too!
[17:15] <mojjog> and lxxlxxl also thanks!!!
[17:16] <lxxlxxl> :P
[17:17] <lxxlxxl> too many thanks
[17:20] <lxxlxxl> Ralfi: from Sopranos ?!
[17:22] <lxxlxxl> I will leave now. thanks Odd-rationale for you help :)
[17:23] <Odd-rationale> lxxlxxl: k. soory i couldn't help more...
[18:10] <Pisagor> hi
[18:11] <Zero____--_> hey, is it possible to install gnome without installing the ubuntu-desktop metabackage
[18:12] <Odd-rationale> Zero____--_: yes. just insall the gnome-desktop meta-package instead... :P
[18:13] <Zero____--_> what packages does ubuntu-desktop have that gnome-desktop doesnt have, Odd-rationale ?
[18:14] <Odd-rationale> Zero____--_: sorry my bad. it is called the metapackage is called gnome...
[18:14] <Odd-rationale> compare:
[18:14] <Odd-rationale> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/ubuntu-desktop
[18:14] <Odd-rationale> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/gnome
[18:15] <Zero____--_> thank you
[18:16] <Odd-rationale> Zero____--_: or this one: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/gnome-desktop-environment
[18:18] <Odd-rationale> Zero____--_: but if you are going to install gnome without ubuntu, you might as well use debain, sidux, archlinux, slackware, or something instead... :P
[18:20] <Zero____--_> yeah, i was just looking at the package difference, and i need ubuntu, i just dont need EVERYTHING in it, i just wanted to install gnome (using xfce currently) without all that bloated crap (such as openoffic) without manually getting rid of stuff
[18:58] <Zero____--_> can you have awn in xubuntu?
[19:01] <cody-somerville> sure
[19:03] <Pisagor> i wanna install xubuntu in my old HDD which has 4.3 GB space
[19:03] <Pisagor> and will i have an access to files in my other NTFS drive  ?
[19:04] <cody-somerville> sure
[19:04] <Pisagor> and do i need to do something special for that ?
[19:04] <Pisagor> or will i have this option defaultly ?
[19:04] <cody-somerville> it'll work by default
[19:04] <Pisagor> tremendous
[19:05] <Pisagor> then its time to migrate ...
[19:05] <Pisagor> c u
[19:12] <Zero____--_> I want the dock from Dreamlinux in Xubuntu, is this possible?
[19:13] <cody-somerville> Its called AWN, yes.
[19:26] <wormsxulla_> hello. does anyone remember off-hand the location of the xubuntu "splashscreen" file (the first screen to show at boot)?
[19:26] <wormsxulla_> or can help me to find it
[19:27] <cody-somerville> wormsxulla_, dpkg -L xubuntu-artwork-usplash
[19:27] <wormsxulla_> cody-somerville: thank you
[20:09] <DCPom> hey, will desktop drapes work with xubuntu?
[20:11] <not_myself> It's hard to say.
[20:11] <not_myself> I'm not familiar with the project.
[20:11] <DCPom> it says it's for gnome, so probably not?
[20:12] <not_myself> sudo aptitude install drapes
[20:12] <not_myself> Actually quite a few gnome programs work great in xubuntu.
[20:12] <not_myself> I've never noticed a difference to be honest.
[20:13] <not_myself> I think I'll look up drapes and see what it does.
[20:17] <not_myself> I guess it's not compatible.
[20:17] <DCPom> yeah
[20:17] <DCPom> it doesn't seem to be working
[20:17] <DCPom> :'(
[20:17] <not_myself> Write your own ...
[20:18] <DCPom> yeah, I thought about that
[20:18] <DCPom> I don't really have the bash skills to do that
[20:18] <not_myself> I guess I'm too much of a do it yourself-er.
[20:19] <not_myself> Anyone know where/how to set your screen brightness.  My laptop keeps dimming after x minutes of no activity, and I can't seem to locate it.
[20:21] <not_myself> There's a box under screensaver power management that is unchecked, alas ... this doesn't stop it from dimming.
[20:21] <not_myself> Oh well maybe I fixed it ... maybe I didn't.
[20:24] <goddamnallthenic> man, getting network shares under xfce is a chore
[20:24] <knome> why not woman?
[20:25] <goddamnallthenic> ...
[20:25] <knome> gotcha.
[20:28] <not_myself> what are you doing nfs?
[20:29] <goddamnallthenic> so is there an easy way to veiw my windows shares through thundar?
[20:30] <Myrtti> !fusesmb
[20:30] <goddamnallthenic> i cant see my network
[20:31] <goddamnallthenic> fusesmb is installed
[20:32] <not_myself> I usually do all my ftp/sftp stuff through knoqueror I don't know if it works with smb:// though.
[20:32] <Myrtti> no it doesn't
[20:33] <goddamnallthenic> ok, so what is the best file manager to use in xfce if i want to veiw my windows shares?
[20:34] <not_myself> I just did a quick search on google, it appears that konqueror will do samba.
[20:35] <not_myself> goddamnallthenic: Is your windows machine on the same subnet as your current machine?
[20:36] <not_myself> Sometimes having <IP_ADDRESS> and then <IP_ADDRESS> for ips is enough to make windows crap out.
[20:36] <goddamnallthenic> yes, its all on the same network, i just want to view my roomates shared vids
[20:36] <not_myself> ok
[20:36] <not_myself> Do you have his ip?
[20:37] <goddamnallthenic> yeah
[20:38] <not_myself> can you reach it with smbclient?
[20:38] <goddamnallthenic> smbclient?
[20:38] <not_myself> smbclient is a command line program with the samba package.
[20:38] <not_myself> To be honest I just don't know enough about this.
[20:39] <not_myself> It's been sooo lonng since I tried connecting to a windows share.
[20:39] <not_myself> I usually just sftp in and copy stuff here.
[20:39] <not_myself> But that's not going to do it.
[20:41] <not_myself> http://grumpymole.blogspot.com/2006/10/xubuntu-and-browsing-samba-network.html
[20:43] <not_myself> smbclient -L -I=<IP_ADDRESS>
[20:43] <not_myself> Seems to be all you need to do.
[20:43] <not_myself> Then again I could be wrong.
[20:44] <not_myself> From there you'll need to figure out how to mount them, after that you'll probably need to add something to fstab to mount them automatically.
[20:44] <not_myself> or ... you could just sudo apt-get install konqueror; run konqueror then type smb:/ in the address bar.
[20:47] <not_myself> maybe it's smb://
[20:48] <goddamnallthenic> i dont have konqueror, i have xubuntu
[20:48] <goddamnallthenic> not kubuntu
[20:49] <Myrtti> goddamnallthenic: did you read that fusesmb guide?
[20:50] <goddamnallthenic> yeah, it didnt work :(
[20:53] <xav22> des francais ?
[20:53] <xav22> hello world
[20:53] <xav22> I need help on xubuntu (xfce)
[20:53] <xav22> any on to help me ?
[20:54] <cody-somerville> !ask
[20:58] <xav22> ubottu> ok
[20:58] <xav22> cody-somerville> ok, thanks
[20:58] <xav22> sorry for my bad english
[20:59] <xav22> i try to join shared folders on a W2000 server, in a domain, from xfce with thunar
[20:59] <xav22> I tried with fusesmb
[21:00] <xav22> it works well , i can see the W2000 domain, the server and can see the shared folders
[21:00] <DFlame> but?
[21:00] <xav22> But when i try to access one of those shared folders
[21:00] <xav22> i get an error message
[21:01] <DFlame> do you have the text of the error message?
[21:01] <xav22> like "folder unreachable : access refused, no permissions" ????
[21:01] <xav22> like "folder unreachable : access refused, no permissions" ????
[21:03] <DFlame> you *could* try a program called pyNeighborhood. it scans and mounts network shares. I believe it is in Synaptic Package Manager
[21:03] <DFlame> that is what I use to mount my shares anyway...
[21:04] <xav22> ok, thanks, I ll try
[21:04] <DFlame> no promises, though remember to run it as root (as it involves mounting)
[21:07] <xav22> DFlame> ok
[21:07] <xav22> I really dont understand why the use of fusesmb doesnt works
[21:08] <DFlame> neither do I. I go with what works and dont question why
[21:11] <shirish> hi all, how do I know status of sticky keys in xubuntu?
[21:12] <xav22> by by everybody
[21:12] <xav22> thanks a lot
[21:13] <DCPom> what's the CL to change the desktop image?
[21:43] <DaveDixonII> can someone help me?
[21:43] <DaveDixonII> its just a quick question
[21:44] <charlie-tca> !anyone
[21:44] <charlie-tca> It depends on the question
[21:44] <charlie-tca> ask please
[21:45] <DaveDixonII> if you compile an app, to remove it, do you just delete the folder or remove threw terminal?
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I don't know about compiling apps.
[21:46] <vinnl> charlie-tca, I need to remember that one :)
[21:46] <vinnl> DaveDixonII, you can do "make uninstall" I believe, but I recommend you to compile using checkinstall so you can remove it through Synaptic
[21:48] <DaveDixonII> k. ty
[21:54] <oklinux> hello
[21:55] <oklinux> any one use lxde in xubuntu ?
[21:55] <vinnl> I have, for a moment
[21:55] <vinnl> To give it a try
[21:55] <vinnl> !anyone
[21:55] <vinnl> charlie-tca, ;-)
[21:56] <charlie-tca> :)
[21:56] <charlie-tca> It took me a long time to learn and remember it, vinnl
[21:57] <vinnl> charlie-tca, I guess I'll recall it if I see the use of that word again, and if not, I might if you use it ;-)
[21:57]  * charlie-tca nods
[21:57] <knome> i must say that pcmanfm is *bad*
[21:58]  * vinnl didn't like it either
[22:32] <DCPom> hey, how do you make a shortcut or alias for a folder?
[22:33] <vinnl> DCPom, right click, then select "Make link"
[22:34] <DCPom> ah thanks
[22:35] <vinnl> np :)
[22:42] <mini-man> just installed xubuntu with wubi, and my headphones don't work, but my speakers do. Ideas? (yes I did google, and no that topic on the forums was of no help whatsoever0
[22:42] <vinnl> mini-man, did you plug in the headphones in the correct location? Have you tried the headphones with another OS or other device?
[22:43] <mini-man> vinnl: they work perfectly on windows
[22:43] <vinnl> OK
[22:43] <mini-man> i checked alsamixer and they aren't muted, but I can't raise or lower the volume
[22:43] <vinnl> mini-man, and they're plugged into the same thing as the speakers?
[22:43] <mini-man> vinnl: no, i have speakers built in to my monitor
[22:44] <vinnl> Right... Ehm, you could check using xfce4-mixer
[22:45] <mini-man> I see no headphones there :o
[22:46] <vinnl> That's odd... Perhaps you could run alsamixer as root and then edit them, but I have zero experience on this area so I'm probably not the right person to be giving advice...
[22:49] <mini-man> well in alsamixer I do see headphones
[22:49] <mini-man> but i'm unable to adjust it
[22:49] <mini-man> and I do hear feedback in my headphones...
[22:49] <mini-man> but the sound comes out the monitor speakers
[22:49] <vinnl> Perhaps ubottu  has some advice...
[22:49] <vinnl> !sound
[22:49] <vinnl> !headphones
[22:49] <vinnl> :(
[22:51] <mini-man> hmm wtf, reducing mic volume reduces the "volume" of the feedback in my headphones :D
[22:51] <mini-man> <-- utter nub at this, in case you haven't noticed yet
[22:56] <mini-man> brb dinner
[23:03]  * vinnl off, sleep
[23:12] <DCPom> what bash command can you use to get an array of all the files (or file paths) in a folder?
[23:12] <charlie-tca> ls
[23:12] <DCPom> ls > VAR?
[23:13] <charlie-tca> no, cd to the folder and type ls in a terminal. If you want a text file use ls > text_file_name
[23:14] <DCPom> does that give the actual files or file paths, or just the name?
[23:14] <DCPom> names*
[23:15] <charlie-tca> just the names of files in that folder/directory
[23:15] <DCPom> ah
[23:15] <charlie-tca> ls --help gives all the options
[23:17] <DCPom> thanks
[23:18] <charlie-tca> np
[23:48] <yesitisjustme> can you have 2 gmail email accounts per person or do they only let you have 1 gmail email account per person?
[23:52] <yesitisjustme> anyone knows
[23:53] <charlie-tca> You might need to check on google, but I thought the limit was one per person
[23:54] <yesitisjustme> oh ok
[23:55] <yesitisjustme> thanks
[23:55] <charlie-tca> Good luck
[23:56] <yesitisjustme> :)


[00:23] <ScottL> hi troy_s
[00:33] <troy_s> ScottL: Greets sir.
[03:17] <Kokito> howdy
[03:40] <holstein> Kokito: o/
[03:41] <holstein> ailo ScottL did you guys get that UI email?
[03:44] <ailo> holstein, Seems like someone is making an effort to get US to work with Unity
[03:45] <holstein> ailo: im replying
[03:45] <holstein> asking for a screey
[03:45] <holstein> screenie*
[03:45] <holstein> and suggesting to come here
[03:47] <ailo> It's been a while since I used the cairo dock. I remember it being very configurable and good looking, but not the greatest when it came to get it working right away and not the best performance
[03:47] <holstein> i didnt like it
[03:47] <holstein> jumpy and glitchy for me
[03:47] <holstein> but, again, i dont want any dock :)
[03:48] <ailo> I used to use docks, but got tired of them
[03:48] <ailo> docky was the best so far
[03:48] <ailo> It's been a while, since I tried the rest, though
[03:48] <holstein> i set up AWN before
[03:49] <holstein> its like fluxbox for me
[03:49] <holstein> i cant stop messing with it
[03:49] <holstein> i was using gnome-do as a dock
[03:49] <holstein> but, now i just use gnome-do
[03:49] <holstein> as is
[03:49] <holstein> on my netbook*
[03:49] <ailo> gnome-do seemed like a great tool, but I never got into it
[03:50] <holstein> on ubuntustudio, i just have the icons around where ever makes sense at the time
[03:50] <ailo> It's not too hard to make your own custom menus either, and add them separately to the gnome2 panel
[03:50] <ailo> Just that doing a fresh install means you need to save settings
[03:51] <holstein> i usually just rebuild it
[03:51] <ailo> Now, I only do configurations that I am backing up, mostly
[03:51] <holstein> i always have a better idea
[03:51] <holstein> *or think i do
[03:52] <ailo> I used to spend a lot of time tweaking the desktop, trying desklets, dual monitor, compiz, and all that.
[03:52] <holstein> i only recently tried compiz with dual monitors
[03:52] <holstein> like 2 months ago
[03:52] <ailo> Now I'm using a 15 inch monitor, and I'm fine with it
[03:53] <ailo> holstein, You have drivers? With nvidia I get dual monitors from nvidia-settings
[03:54] <ailo> I also have HD composite, which I've tried a couple of times with a HD lcd TV. Pretty awesome.
[03:54] <holstein> ailo: i dont have the hardware for it
[03:54] <ailo> Don't own a TV, so I don't really use that a lot :)
[03:55] <holstein> nice
[04:02] <ScottL> hi all :)
[04:02] <ScottL> missed kokito
[04:03] <ScottL> holstein, i haven't seen that email apparently, i'll check in a minute
[04:03] <ScottL> ailo, i did my testing again, playing back music and recording while compressing data and opening gimp
[04:03] <ScottL> ailo, got the same results
[04:03] <ScottL> but i did notice something strange
[04:03] <ailo> ScottL, Yeah?
[04:04] <ScottL> if i open meterbridge it caused jackd to stay open, even after i closed everything!
[04:04] <ScottL> i had to run top, find the PID, and kill PID
[04:04] <ScottL> very strange i thought
[04:04] <ailo> Sounds like a bug to me
[04:05] <ScottL> there might be more email coming holstein, i checked listadmin and saw several emails from luke
[04:05] <ScottL> they're approved now
[04:06] <ScottL> ailo, when i install the latest vanilla ubuntu with unity i'll check to see if it happens there too, if so i will file a bug
[04:09] <ScottL> the screenshot with the email looks like gnome3 with a dock at the bottom
[04:11] <ailo> ScottL, Yeah. Seems like Luke has been spending sime time with both Gnome3 and Unity
[04:11] <ailo> ScottL, It would be great to hear about his opinions
[04:11] <ScottL> i wonder who luke is, have we heard from him before?
[04:11] <ailo> I barely know anyone :)
[04:13] <ScottL> heh ;)
[04:14] <holstein> ScottL: i dont hate it
[04:14] <holstein> i just dont know why the unity dock is gone
[04:14] <holstein> why not just use it?
[04:15] <holstein> its not heavy
[04:18] <ailo> I think he's showing that cairo works with all of them
[04:19] <ailo> Seems like he's pushing for a dock, anyway
[04:19] <holstein> whatever, i know how to get rid of it :)
[04:20] <ailo> I know that dock used to have a 2d and a 3d version, so it should work on all systems
[04:21] <ailo> Got to try it now, just out of curiosity. Don't be mad holstein
[04:21] <holstein> nah, im not mad
[04:22] <holstein> just wondering why we gotta have a doc
[04:22] <ailo> It's not that bad, actually.. :|
[04:23] <ScottL> holstein, it looked like they were all gnome3 to me, did i miss something?
[04:23] <holstein> alright... i gotta run BBL
[04:24] <ailo> ScottL, I'm not sure myself. Seemed that way to me too
[04:26] <ailo> ScottL, The cairo dock is in deed configurable. And seems to work a little better now.
[04:39] <ailo> ScottL, The problem with this dock is that it feels messy for me. The question is, as holstein stated, why use this, when there already is a panel for Unity. Would be better to improve the unity panel instead
[04:41] <ailo> ScottL, Though, doing what you planned to do may perhaps be easier to do on one dock first, and later you can use the ideas to code into another dock later.
[04:44] <ScottL> ailo, perhaps, but there is a lot to do in such a sort amount of time
[04:44] <ScottL> i'm going to try to get in touch with cory this weekend and see if he made any progresss
[04:44] <ScottL> hi Kokito
[04:44] <Kokito> hi ScottL & holstein
[04:44] <Kokito> and everybody else :)
[04:44] <ScottL> ailo, if cory doesn't make appreciable progress soon we probably should see about having a backup plan with unity
[04:45] <ailo> ScottL, I wouldn't be in a hurry with your idea of the dock. It's a great idea, that should be developed, sooner or later.
[04:45] <ailo> No matter which UI
[04:46] <ScottL> ailo, my original thought was that if cory could decide which dock he really wants then we talk to that developer
[04:46] <ScottL> cairo just has so many dependencies, but i think it's the best as well
[04:47] <ailo> ScottL, What to do if the backup plan fails?
[04:47] <ailo> :P
[04:47] <ScottL> ailo, ah, i don't really know
[04:48] <ailo> Well, I'm just kidding.
[04:48] <ScottL> but hopefully within a month or so we know which direction we are heading and can approach any obstacles that present themselves
[04:48] <ScottL> a month or so after natty is released
[04:49] <ailo> ScottL, My plan is to go through everything that falktx has done, and do some kind of assessment on what Ubuntu Studio is lacking that he is doing, and think about how we could add that. Also, I will try to get the basic stuff working first, so we have a working package of a program that at least fixes the basic things, like my -controls did
[04:50] <ScottL> ailo, that sounds like a really good plan :)
[04:51] <ScottL> i'm going upstairs for a few minutes and then i'm going to bed
[04:51] <ailo> ScottL, GN
[06:12] <Kokito> re
[06:13] <holstein> Kokito: RE:
[06:13] <Kokito> hey holstein
[06:14] <holstein> hey
[06:14]  * Kokito is eating dinner at 10:15PM...
[06:15] <holstein> hehe
[06:15] <holstein> im having a snackish-dinner at 1:15am
[06:15] <Kokito> where are you located holstein ?
[06:15] <holstein> northcarolina US
[06:16] <Kokito> I'm in Tracy, CA
[06:16] <Kokito> about 40 miles east of the Bay Area
[06:16] <holstein> OK
[06:17] <holstein> i was thinking the other way
[06:17] <holstein> in timezones
[06:20] <Kokito> hopefully no tornadoes in your area
[06:21] <holstein> no, but there were some not too far from here
[06:21] <holstein> ive checked in with most everyone i know over there though
[06:21] <holstein> my girlfriend was driving home in the crazy rain the other day from them
[06:47] <Kokito> that sounds scary
[06:47] <ailo> Looong Friday today
[06:53] <Kokito> TGIF! :)
[06:53] <Kokito> oh oh... spilled a few drops of water on the mousepad, and the mouse is now acting weird :/
[18:22] <ckontros> ScottL: Throw me back on the LP -dev team.
[18:23] <holstein> ckontros: o/
[18:23]  * ckontros waves.
[18:23]  * holstein heading out to lunch... bbl
[18:24] <ckontros> ScottL: If you grant me admin, I'll spruce up some of the LP graphics as well.
[18:49] <ScottL> ckontros, right, will do that now
[18:50] <ScottL> ckontros, add you to the team, where is it that i give you admin
[18:50] <ckontros> IDK. They moved stuff round since last I did it. :P
[18:51] <ScottL> nevermind, done
[18:51] <ScottL> how'
[18:51] <ScottL> how's the xfce stuff coming along
[18:52] <ckontros> ScottL: I spent a bit of time today looking at how settings are done there. I'm going to start making some local branches to work in. I think I'll wait till 11.10 opens up to post them.
[18:53] <ckontros> I'll also have to get you to play with the seeds at some point.
[18:55] <ScottL> right, that's expected :)
[18:56] <ScottL> ckontros, as far as you can see, are there an severely critical issues that might prevent us from moving towards xfce?  as far as you can see?
[18:56] <ckontros> I think I'll try to see if TheMuso can gimmie a crash-course with the seeds.
[18:57] <ckontros> Um, No. It's all package selection.
[18:57] <ckontros> Biggest thing will be the work on live disks and task selection.
[19:11] <ckontros> ScottL: Initially, I'm simply going to set up Studio's look, over Xubuntu. (i'm sure Ill tweak a few other minor things)
[19:14] <ckontros> ScottL: Downloading the source pkg for "xubuntu-default-settings" will show you some of what I'm looking at. (though I think i didnt grab the most current one)
[20:00] <ScottL> sorry, been in and out (mostly out) all day, my wife bought a 4' x 18' diameter above ground pool so i'm leveling edging bricks and having sand delivered
[20:00] <ScottL> ckontros, i agree that getting the look right first, if we don't get live disk this release...oh well, there's always next
[20:01] <ScottL> ckontros, but i truly believe creating a live disk is a good PR move
[20:02] <ScottL> i believe that we "lose" more new users because of not having a live disc than how many we would "lose" due to poor performance of the live disc
[20:02] <ScottL> of course that is pure speculation
[20:02] <ScottL> but even the speculated "poor performance" is argumentative...some think the performance wouldn't be that bad, just loading apps would be slow
[20:06] <holstein> the performance of the puredyne live CD is bangin
[20:06] <holstein> thats based on ubuntu
[20:06] <holstein> more that adequate for testing hardware
[20:11] <ScottL> oh, i should also add the she only spent $300 on the pool :)   that's pretty bangin' too ;)
[20:12] <ScottL> hi holstein, how are you doing?
[20:12] <holstein> day off :)
[20:12] <holstein> watching TV
[20:12] <holstein> good times
[20:12] <ScottL> holstein, i'm still very, very interested in doing some music together with gman and whoever else wants to
[20:12] <ScottL> maybe pipeman will play drums
[20:15] <holstein> i cant wail til internet speeds make netjack easy
[20:35] <ailo> holstein, What's the speed of light over the Atlantic?
[20:35] <ailo> holstein, Maybe we can jam some time
[20:40] <holstein> hehe
[20:48] <ScottL> holstein, i would be happy enough ftp'ing or sending .wav files or whatever, as long as we work on a song together
[20:48] <holstein> yeah, thats totally fine
[20:48] <holstein> im just looking forward to realtime
[20:58] <ScottL> i've got this funky, bluesy riff that i've been kicking around and i'll try to record it this weekend and make it available to you and guitarman
[20:58] <ScottL> holstein, ^^^
[20:59] <holstein> w00t


[00:04] <tsimonq2> !lococouncil
[00:05] <tsimonq2> is this still a thing? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto#Summarizing_Your_Meetings
[07:04] <ASIF> Sir i am using ubuntu 14.04
[07:04] <ASIF> and m unable to run plugin in chrome
[08:40] <dholbach> good morning


[13:02]  * lamont plans to freshen the oneiric chroot tarballs later today (in say an hour) unless someone screams at him.
[13:05] <cjwatson> sounds good to me
[13:25] <lamont> cjwatson: good. done.
[19:20] <Laney> pitti: how do the pygobject regressions manifest? build or runtime failures?
[19:22] <pitti> Laney: erm, runtime -- python isn't built, unless there are test suite runs
[19:22] <Laney> ah, ok --- thought there might be a static pass.
[19:32] <Laney> wait, what? I was thinking of gir. Sorry.
[23:10] <ScottK> Sigh. Options:
[23:11] <ScottK> 1.  Release Oneiric with kdelibs (KDE3) that's unbuildable.
[23:11] <ScottK> 2.  Port kdelibs to work both with openssl1.0 and without avahi.
[23:11] <ScottK> 3.  Post FF removal of all KDE3 stuff (Debian has already done this).
[23:11] <ScottK> So we get no help from Debian on #1 or #2.
[23:12] <ScottK> Thoughts?
[23:12] <stgraber> do we still have a lot of kde3 stuff around?
[23:16] <ScottK> It's all in universe.
[23:17] <ScottK> Actually we may not.
[23:17] <ScottK> It looks like most of it got auto cleaned up from when Debian did removals.
[23:18]  * ScottK votes removal then.
[23:18] <stgraber> rdepends gives me around 5 software actually using the old kdelibs, so option 3 would seem reasonable then
[23:21] <slangasek> +1