[14:13] <cyberanger> http://richardhartmann.de/blog/posts/2015/08/24-Tor-enabled_Debian_mirror/
[14:43] <bwmaker> I wonder how long it an apt-get upgrade would take over Tor.
[16:14] <cyberanger> depends how much there is to upgrade
[16:30] <bwmaker> True, but I was thinking relatively. :) a 2 min upgrade could turn into a 4 min upgrade. May not be much, but installing large packages could be tedious if one is already on a slower connection. It's a great option if you need it though. I don't mean to diminish the significance of the contribution.
[16:50] <cyberanger> bwmaker: also, running it as a two step at night wouldn't hurt
[16:50] <cyberanger> sudo apt-get update;sudo apt-get -d dist-upgrade
[16:50] <cyberanger> then come back in the am, run part two
[16:50] <cyberanger> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[16:51] <cyberanger> that'll make it feel faster, you'll be asleep on the download
[16:53] <cyberanger> I do see your point, but if you need every extra inch of security, couldn't hurt
[16:54] <cyberanger> personally I was using an https mirror over tor (keep in mind, the whole setup already is secured with gpg too, so it was triple secure)
[16:54] <bwmaker> Yeah, I don't know that I need to go that far. But then, I didn't think FDE was really necessary 2+ years ago.
[16:54] <cyberanger> I don't think it is for me, but I also try to keep my attack surfaces low
[16:55] <cyberanger> as much as I like absolutes, nothing is ever 100%
[16:57] <cyberanger> I see a benift when the hotspot doesn't know who I am, who I'm talking to, the services don't know who they're talking to
[16:57] <bwmaker> I agree. The effectiveness of FDE is purely contextual, as are many of the precautions. At least, that's my own perception. I've been wrong before. :)
[16:57] <cyberanger> they're talking securely with my gear, so nobody can easedrop
[16:58] <cyberanger> and nobody knows what's installed on my systems
[16:58] <bwmaker> Yeah, that's a really good point.
[16:59] <cyberanger> problem with FDE is, is it truely full disk
[17:00] <cyberanger> can I modify your boot code, snatch your password, upload it later in the boot process to somewhere and come back and use it
[17:01] <cyberanger> Can I migitate that attack, sure, I can two ways, never leave my laptop around, away from me
[17:02] <cyberanger> and never put my unencrypted /boot on the hard drive, use a flash drive and install there (also, make sure the MBR code goes to the flash drive too)
[17:02]  * cyberanger isn't paranoid, it's just that....well.... you see....everybody is out to get me....that's all
[17:03] <cyberanger> bwmaker: ^
[18:03] <bwmaker> :-) I'm paranoid. I'll admit that. But  I think it's reasonably so, if there is such a thing as a reasonable amount of paranoia.
[18:07] <bwmaker> But I do believe it's a mistake to believe one's digital life and belongings are completely secure. There's always a flaw in the system.
[20:16] <cyberanger> Indeed
[20:54] <bwmaker> https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/08/26/way-gchq-obliterated-guardians-laptops-revealed-intended/
[22:57] <Unit193> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/uk-surveillance-worse-than-1984-says-new-un-privacy-chief/
[23:34] <aeden__d> I hear a lot of people talking about tunneling certain programs thru ssh. I've read up on this but I'm not sure of the benefits. what are the benefits to installing openssh-server?


[00:00] <ScottK> Hopsa: Why do you think all of Ubuntu server is my personal problem?
[00:00] <ScottK> I agree it's bad, just not that I'm required to be the one that fixes it.
[00:01] <Hopsa> You tried to defend "n0a1ias" and then you started talking to me.
[00:02] <Hopsa> n0a1ias is at best a bot at worst a failed experiment to code a bot.
[00:02] <n0a1ias> what?
[00:02] <n0a1ias> no
[00:02] <n0a1ias> im not a bot
[00:02] <Hopsa> 1/3 = ?
[00:03] <n0a1ias> 1 sec
[00:03] <Hopsa> ok
[00:03] <n0a1ias> 0.3333333333
[00:03] <n0a1ias> repeating
[00:04] <n0a1ias> im sorry i was mean, but wow.
[00:04] <n0a1ias> jear
[00:04] <n0a1ias> jerk**
[00:05] <Hopsa> 3,1592 ... is ?
[00:05] <n0a1ias> pie
[00:05] <n0a1ias> waitno
[00:05] <n0a1ias> a number?
[00:05] <n0a1ias> idk the question
[00:05] <Hopsa> 3.141592653589793... ?
[00:06] <Hopsa> Its PI
[00:06] <n0a1ias> oh, the missing 4 threw me off
[00:06] <Hopsa> lol
[00:07] <n0a1ias> so yea
[00:07] <n0a1ias> not a bot
[00:08] <Hopsa> If you scroll up and explain why i could have thought you're then i can accept any outcome of this discussion :)
[00:08] <n0a1ias> yea i just did
[00:09] <n0a1ias> hah
[00:09] <Hopsa> Accepted
[00:09] <Hopsa> Where in europe do you live, what country ?
[00:10] <n0a1ias> USA....
[00:11] <Hopsa> North or south ?
[00:16] <Hopsa> So what ive learned about #ubuntu-server so far is this: ScottK thinks dhcpd is: "It's not a package I personally pay a lot of attention to". n0alias likes the shiny shiny colors (joking) and the rest of the channel is out partying ?
[00:16] <n0a1ias> south
[00:17] <Hopsa> Thanks!
[00:17] <n0a1ias> yep
[00:17] <n0a1ias> haha
[00:18] <Hopsa> n0a1ias: Is it always this quiet here ?
[00:18] <n0a1ias> yea
[00:18] <n0a1ias> unfortunitly
[00:21] <Hopsa> I feel that some shouldnt be here at all given that regard and respect it deserves. Do you require new staff ?
[00:25] <Hopsa> Its very important to care.  /What kind of "member are you" ?
[00:58] <Psi-Jack> Ahhh.. Hopsa. A known troll.
[01:00] <Hopsa> Really ? Please provide intel on this ?
[01:01] <Psi-Jack> Lets see.. moatbuilder, Dionysos, Manjula, Ballefjon, Jusfication, Melkerscrollan, even GayAnankePsi.
[01:01] <Hopsa> What ?
[01:02] <Psi-Jack> Always coming from that VERY specific IP you're on now, plus ip-*-*-179-93.dialup.ice.net
[01:02] <IdleOne> Psi-Jack: you forgot bermanrules
[01:02] <Hopsa> [Hopsa] anthony.freenode.net :Irvine, CA, USA
[01:02] <Hopsa> * [Hopsa] is connecting from<EMAIL_ADDRESS><IP_ADDRESS>
[01:02] <Psi-Jack> IdleOne: I haven't logged that one yet apparently.
[01:02] <Hopsa> ???
[01:03] <Hopsa> psi-jack: ?
[01:03] <Psi-Jack> Cut the crap, troll.
[01:04] <Hopsa> Thanks then i guess. How rude.
[01:04] <Psi-Jack> Anyway.
[01:05] <Psi-Jack> I found an issue with Ubuntu 10.04's lsb/init-functions that might should be looked into. Basically when using status_of_proc -p PIDFILE DAEMON, it passes it to pidofproc which cares nothing for DAEMON if -p PIDFILE is given so if the PIDFILE doesn't exist it returns rc=4 instead of checking the pidof DAEMON and determining if it's actually running regardless of the pidfile.
[01:06] <Psi-Jack> Kinda breaks LSB a bit by returning rc=4 when it could in fact return 0 or 3 as expected.
[01:08] <Hopsa> PIDFILE=`cat Location_Of_Pidfile` has worked the best and is the recommended aquireing of PIDS for programs
[01:08] <Psi-Jack> Hopsa: Shut it already.
[01:09] <Psi-Jack> My fix for it was to alter line 94 of lsb/init-functions to: if [ -x /bin/pidof -a -n "$1" ]; then  -- So if DAEMON is passed to it, it assumes since it's already shifted $OPTIN, that it at least has a daemon name.
[01:10] <Psi-Jack> That whole check for $specified is really kinda lame. ;)
[01:12]  * Hopsa Has nothing to say and i bet your question will go unanswered.
[01:13] <kuttan_> Have a bad package entry in my systems apt database, and the name persists despite the removal  of the package . How can I get rid of this entry
[01:16] <kuttan_> synaptic show post_install script failure ..
[01:21] <kuttan_> Have a bad package entry in my systems apt database, and the name persists despite the removal  of the package . How can I get rid of this entry
[01:21] <kuttan_> synaptic show post_install script failure ..
[01:22] <Psi-Jack> And.. Why... prey tell...  I only have a couple issues left to resolve with my pacemaker + drbd + dlm + clvmd + IPaddr2 + iSCSI stuff.
[01:50] <biodegabriel> Heyall, Does anybody know of a good tutorial on setting Postfix with Ubuntu 10.04? The ones at help.ubuntu.com are way way too wordy and complicated.
[01:51] <Psi-Jack> and, what exactly are you trying to do with postfix?
[01:51] <Hopsa> http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html
[01:51] <Psi-Jack> biodegabriel: And https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix is too wordy and complicated?
[01:51] <biodegabriel> thx Hopsa!
[01:51] <Hopsa> biodegabriel: Np!
[01:52] <biodegabriel> Psi-Jack: I was using this one "https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/postfix.html" and it started explaining stuff about paying Certificate Authorities to certify you... I was like... WTF?!
[01:53] <Psi-Jack> That looks about the same thing.
[01:53] <Psi-Jack> Still.. Not very complicated, compared to past documentation basic guides. :p
[01:54] <biodegabriel> Psi-Jack: Step 2 sends you to another page where they lecture you on certiifcates.
[01:54] <Psi-Jack> Which you don't have to follow that part. :p
[01:55] <biodegabriel> Psi-Jack: Yeah, but the "note"s come after the instructions. It's totally a-linear. Not what I need in instructions/tutorials.
[01:55] <Psi-Jack> Instead, the alternative, creating a self-signed certficiate, or flat-out skipping the sections 2-4
[01:55] <biodegabriel> Psi-Jack: Want to setup my Postfix install for me?
[01:55] <Psi-Jack> Nope
[01:56] <Psi-Jack> I want you to RTFM and follow it as it's written because that guide is actually really fricken nice. :)
[01:56] <biodegabriel> Psi-Jack: Nice for people who've installed Postfix 12 times before. Not for n00bs like me.
[01:57] <Psi-Jack> Actually, it's exactly for "n00bs" like you.
[01:57] <biodegabriel> Psi-Jack: How many users pay for certified certificates?
[01:58] <Psi-Jack> biodegabriel: Millions. However you don't need to get a certified certificate, or even follow the steps 2-4, as I've said already.
[01:58] <biodegabriel> Psi-Jack: If only you were sitting beside me ten minutes ago...
[01:58] <Psi-Jack> You wouldn't want that. ;)
[01:59] <Psi-Jack> I uses a sheleighly on my students. ;)
[02:00] <Hopsa> Shenanigan ?
[02:21] <Hopsa> A very funny game i played --- Monkey Bubble --- Absolutely love it, check it out!
[02:25] <Hopsa> uvirtbot: *__GI_abort () at abort.c:92 is not aborted properly you say ? ;)
[02:26] <Hopsa> Interresting /yawn
[02:26] <Hopsa> Now thats interresting, Married with children is on! :)
[02:33] <biodegabriel> Hey all, How do i find out if I have have sendmail installed? (I'm not joking, i really don't know).
[02:34] <gtpeacock> I just installed 10.04 server.  One partition is mounted on installation as type ntfs in fstab.  Is there any reason not to use ntfs-3g?
[02:37] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: use dpkg to query what's installed or just look for the sendmail binary
[02:37] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: thx
[02:37] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: 'dpkg -l *sendmail*' or 'which sendmail'
[02:38] <pmatulis> respectively
[02:38] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: i was typing 'sendmail which'. LOL
[02:38] <pmatulis> hmmm, a sendmail witch, nasty thing
[02:50] <Hopsa> biodegabriel: ls /usr/sbin/sendmail
[02:50] <Hopsa> Install sendmail-cf if you intend to use it.
[02:51] <biodegabriel> Hopsa: cool
[02:51] <Hopsa> :)
[03:37] <WinstonSmith> hi everybody. my server 8.04 wont reboot anymore. i give it a reboot or shutdown -r now and just nothing happens... i get the message that it will reboot but nothing
[03:38] <dschuett> anyone running squid on 10.04?
[03:38] <WinstonSmith> which log should i look at?
[03:39] <progre55> hi guys! anyone knows if "setfacl" works on ubuntu?
[03:41] <Hopsa> WinstonSmith: I would urge you to upgrade because ive seen indications on that 8.04 isnt prioritized anymore. An odd decition, but nevertheless perhaps a fact.
[03:43] <Hopsa> WinstonSmith: If you run servers and they work ok, then upgrading atm isnt a good option if you rely on a dhcp server as the one in Ubuntu Lucid isnt working as far as i can tell.
[03:43] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa, thx for responding. the server belongs to a friend of mine and runs a website blog etc and he does not want to upgrade without me being there and thats 3000 km away :(
[03:43] <Hopsa> httpd is ok
[03:43] <Hopsa> in Lucid
[03:44] <WinstonSmith> yes but can you tell me anything about my question plz?
[03:44] <pmatulis> 8.04 server will receive security fixes and critical fixes until April 2013
[03:45] <WinstonSmith> cause i just upgraded the kernel and then tried a "reboot" (uptime was 100 days) and it just doesnt reboot
[03:45] <WinstonSmith> which log this kind of command would be logged to?
[03:45] <WinstonSmith> yes 8.04 is LTS thats why we chose it
[03:46] <Hopsa> WinstonSmith: I do know that one of my friends Ubuntu-8.04 Firefox stopped working. Perhaps due to an upgrade he did, but the result was he had no browser anymore. "ns_loginit()" problem, possibly due to different versions of xulrunnel.
[03:47] <Hopsa> "shutdown -h now" ?
[03:47] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa, yes but im talking about a headless server no GUI or FF
[03:47] <Hopsa> "shutdown -r now" ?
[03:47] <Hopsa> -r     Requests  that  the system be rebooted after it has been brought
[03:47] <Hopsa>               down.
[03:48] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa,  as i said above "shutdown -h now" or reboot produce the message that system is going down for reboot and then nothing happens
[03:48] <WinstonSmith> reboot just being an alias to  "shutdown -h now"
[03:48] <Hopsa> Yep
[03:49] <Hopsa> or ... -r now
[03:49] <WinstonSmith>  i have no entry in dmesg or /var/log/messages related to my reboot try
[03:49] <Hopsa> -h means shut down or (halt)
[03:49] <WinstonSmith> oh yeah typo sry
[03:49] <Hopsa> np
[03:50] <Hopsa> So, nothing happens ?
[03:50] <WinstonSmith> is there any other log that i could look at ... this behavior is really strange
[03:50] <Hopsa> also check /var/log/secure
[03:51] <WinstonSmith> the machine had a load of 3x for weeks cause we had a runaway msql and a gameserver who ate all resources ... maybe related to that?
[03:51] <EvilPhoenix> lol
[03:52] <WinstonSmith> i have no /var/log/secure
[03:52] <EvilPhoenix> is there a way to see how you're doing on disc space on VPS systems in openvz?
[03:52] <Hopsa> ls /var/log
[03:52] <WinstonSmith> yes i just moved from portugal to germany so i wasnt really on top of things ... no internet
[03:52] <Hopsa> some dists call it "security" etc
[03:52] <WinstonSmith> yes i know
[03:53] <Hopsa> reboot it and see if setjmp will work correctly then.
[03:53] <WinstonSmith> nothing with that name around
[03:54] <dschuett> does anyone run squid on ubuntu 10.04
[03:54] <Hopsa> Yep
[03:55] <biodegabriel> Hey all, What do I do when a package I'm trying to install can't be found? Do I try another source? http://pastie.org/1121778
[03:57] <Hopsa> dschuett: squid-2.7STABLE7
[03:57] <dschuett> Hopsa: does it run ok?
[03:58] <dschuett> i can't stop start or reload, i get this: reload: Unknown instance:
[03:58] <Hopsa> Yes, but watch out for the switch to Squid 3. Then you must remove acl "all" because its been built in.
[03:58] <Hopsa> For some unknown reason.
[03:59] <dschuett> ah, ok thanks for the heads up
[03:59] <Hopsa> Np. Stop it then start it... ?
[03:59] <dschuett> Hopsa: when i do a squid stop...i get: squid is already running!
[03:59] <dschuett> same with start and reload
[04:00] <Hopsa> Hmm, hmm...
[04:00] <Hopsa> killall -9 squid
[04:00] <dschuett> if i do this: /etc/init.d/squid reload stop or start i get unknown instance
[04:01] <Hopsa> it could have a lingering .lock file in /var/lock/squid.lock or so
[04:01] <Hopsa> Perhaps due to a powerfailure or so
[04:02] <dschuett> Hopsa: that killed it...i was able to start it, but on squid stop or reload it says "squid is already running!"
[04:02] <dschuett> are you on ubuntu 10.04?
[04:02] <Hopsa> Yes, i have one of those running beside me
[04:02] <WinstonSmith> anyone else an idea why shutdown -r now does not work anymore?
[04:03] <dschuett> damn, i googled the error, and a lot of people are having this issue...but no solutions
[04:03] <EvilPhoenix> you tried shutdown -h?
[04:03] <EvilPhoenix> er
[04:03] <EvilPhoenix> nevermind
[04:04] <EvilPhoenix> ah to restart
[04:04] <EvilPhoenix> one sec
[04:04] <Hopsa> dschuett: Try to start and stop squid manually and see if its the scripts that call squid the wrong way.
[04:04] <Hopsa> call = try to start
[04:04] <WinstonSmith> EvilPhoenix, i have to reboot the server is offsite ~3000km away :|
[04:05] <Hopsa> I wonder if winston could signal the init process to make a reboot somehow...
[04:06] <EvilPhoenix> shutdown -r worked for me on both my servers
[04:06] <dschuett> Hopsa: not sure how to do what you are asking
[04:06] <EvilPhoenix> not sure if its just your system
[04:06] <EvilPhoenix> WinstonSmith:  ^
[04:07] <Hopsa> Init should have a process id of "1". Does it have that winston ?
[04:07] <WinstonSmith> EvilPhoenix, the server is running fine for 2.5 years. every 2 month or so i make all the updates and reboot. never had a single problem wiith it rocksolid :)
[04:07] <WinstonSmith> hopsa 1 sec
[04:08] <WinstonSmith> yes it does
[04:08] <Hopsa> dschuett: Your scripts try to start and stop servers one way, perhaps they are not doing it correctly. Try stopping squid and then starting it manually. "squid -k start" maybe (cant remeber atm)
[04:10] <Hopsa> squid -k reconfigure | rotate | shutdown | interrupt | kill | debug | check |
[04:10] <Hopsa>        parse
[04:11] <Hopsa> squid -k shutdown && squid
[04:11] <dschuett> k, did that
[04:11] <Hopsa> squid -k shutdown && squid || echo "I have failed to stop and start squid"
[04:11] <Hopsa> Worked ok ?
[04:11] <Hopsa> then id suspect the sysinit script
[04:12] <dschuett> yeah, it killed it
[04:12] <Hopsa> and started ok ?
[04:12] <dschuett> just try squid start?
[04:12] <Hopsa> k
[04:12] <dschuett> says squid is already running
[04:13] <dschuett> any easy way to upgrade to 3.0?
[04:16] <biodegabriel> Hopsa: Do you know what I'm doing wrong here? http://pastie.org/1121802
[04:17] <Hopsa> dschuett: use the debian versions
[04:17] <Hopsa> checking
[04:17] <Hopsa> isnt itr libsasl ? ... use a "*" if unsure
[04:18] <WinstonSmith> biodegabriel, do you have all the repos enabled?
[04:18] <Hopsa> itr/it
[04:18] <Hopsa> bbiaw
[04:18] <WinstonSmith> cause my apt-cache gives me libgsasl7 - GNU SASL library
[04:19] <biodegabriel> WinstonSmith: here are my repos: http://pastie.org/1121808
[04:22] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: just what are you trying to do?
[04:22] <WinstonSmith> biodegabriel, hmmm thats really strange because the package is in the universe repos which you have enabled
[04:22] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: install mailutils. i'm following this tutorial: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixBasicSetupHowto
[04:24] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: your answer doesn't correspond to what you just pastebin'd
[04:25] <pmatulis> (libgsasl)
[04:25] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: i know, but when i try and install mailutils, it installs some other packages, one of which is libgsasl, and that's the one that fails.
[04:25] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: did you provide that error output?
[04:26] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: yup http://pastie.org/1121778
[04:28] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: error shows astromirror.uchicago.edu but your system shows mirror.ne.gov
[04:28] <Hopsa> INSTALL this first: http://altruistic.lbl.gov/mirrors/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gsasl/libgsasl7_1.4.4-1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
[04:29] <WinstonSmith> so does anybody else an idea on how to reboot a machine if reboot, shutdown -r and init 6 dont work?
[04:29] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: try 'reboot'
[04:29] <WinstonSmith> pmatulis, please read my msg
[04:30] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: oh
[04:30] <WinstonSmith> ;)
[04:30] <pmatulis> 'shutdown -r now' ?
[04:30] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: well?
[04:31] <WinstonSmith> pmatulis, in my msg i said : reboot, shutdown -r and init 6 dont work
[04:31] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: just a sec.
[04:31] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: but not 'shutdown -r now'
[04:31] <WinstonSmith> yes but thats just the timer
[04:32] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: try it then
[04:32] <WinstonSmith> i tried all that for quite some time now.... thats wjy im asking
[04:32] <WinstonSmith> why*
[04:32] <WinstonSmith> if theres any other way to reboot
[04:33] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: any output from these commands?
[04:33] <WinstonSmith> i give it a reboot or shutdown -r now and just nothing happens... i get the message that it will reboot but nothing
[04:33] <WinstonSmith> no entry in dmesg or /var/log/messages
[04:33] <biodegabriel> sorry pmatulis, i'm doing something wrong. is this the right command? http://pastie.org/1121824
[04:33] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: anything in the logs?
[04:33] <WinstonSmith> no entry in dmesg or /var/log/messages
[04:34] <WinstonSmith> is there any other log you could point me to?
[04:34] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: your're thrashing, please stop
[04:34] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: type 'dmesg'
[04:34] <biodegabriel> thrashing?
[04:35] <Hopsa> WinstonSmith: "reboot -f" ?
[04:35] <Hopsa> force
[04:35] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa, ok will try that
[04:35] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: answer my question re discrepency between your sources.list file and the error output
[04:37] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: i was using another source cause i tried 4 other ones and they all said that the package couldn't be found. should i edit my sources list everytime i want to try a different source?
[04:37] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: just stop thrashing like that.  use the official mirrors
[04:37] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa, thats seems to have helped :D. i have to wait a bit now to see because it will fsck at boot and has over 2 TB so takes some time
[04:38] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: what are the official mirrors? i got my mirrors from this list https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[04:38] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa, pmatulis thank you for your time & have a nice day (or night whereever you are)
[04:38] <Hopsa> WinstonSmith: May the force be with you, always! ... Ill wait until it comes up, gotta go catch some shut eye myself :)
[04:38] <Hopsa> Np!
[04:39] <WinstonSmith> i am your father luke!!!
[04:39] <Hopsa> Haha! :)
[04:40] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa, since you ate still here... ;) do you have a clue what caused this kind of behavior?
[04:41] <WinstonSmith> are*
[04:41] <Hopsa> Maybe /dev/initctl was hosed by something. Its what i can come up with atm.
[04:42] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: use archive.ubuntu.com for now
[04:42] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: did dmesg command show anything?
[04:42] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: OK
[04:42] <Hopsa> You can test that later by removing it and trying to reboot. Perhaps some other device file could also do it.
[04:43] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: i had stopped using it cause it was taking hours to download packages....
[04:43] <WinstonSmith> pmatulis, no thats what i found really odd. it gave the : the system will reboot now! msg and then nothing... fell into the black hole
[04:43] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: pastebin your edited file
[04:43] <pmatulis> WinstonSmith: odd, never seen that
[04:44] <WinstonSmith> pmatulis, me nether in all my linux life
[04:44] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: http://pastie.org/1121839
[04:44] <WinstonSmith> pmatulis, i thought that it was related to the heavy load the machine had in the last weeks?
[04:44] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: anything under /etc/apt/sources.list.d ?  if so, pastebin it's contents
[04:45] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: http://pastie.org/1121843
[04:46] <WinstonSmith> success : 04:45:36 up 9 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.21, 0.19
[04:46] <Hopsa> mknod -m 622 /var/new-dist/dev/console c 5 1
[04:46] <Hopsa> mknod -m 666 /var/new-dist/dev/ptmx c 5 2
[04:46] <Hopsa> chown root:tty /var/new-dist/dev/{console,ptmx,tty}
[04:46] <WinstonSmith> thank you all for your time !
[04:46] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: ok, now 'sudo apt-get clean'
[04:46] <Hopsa> switch /var/new-dist for /dev/*
[04:46] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: done
[04:46] <pmatulis> now 'sudo apt-get update'
[04:47] <Hopsa> Laters!
[04:47] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: it fetched 24 packages
[04:47] <WinstonSmith> Hopsa, wish u a good shut-eye & cya :D
[04:47] <pmatulis> now 'sudo apt-get -f install'
[04:47] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: ^^
[04:48] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: "0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 37 not upgraded."
[04:48] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: now 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade'
[04:49] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: working......
[04:49] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: 37 upgraded
[04:49] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: now 'sudo apt-get --reinstall install mailutils'
[04:50] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: perfect! so changing my sources was messing everything up? is that what's called "thrashing"?
[04:51] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: thrashing refers to trying anything in the hopes that it will work, going berzerk really
[04:51] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: you haven't seen me thrash then... :D
[04:52] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: so you're all set?
[04:52] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: thanks for your help. i can keep on with my postfix setup now. what was i doing wrong, though, specifically?
[04:52] <biodegabriel> wrong source?
[04:53] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: i don't know  :)  maybe didn't update your package index?
[04:54] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: you mean i needed to do "apt-get update"?
[04:54] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: yes
[04:54] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: but the other commands could have played a role too
[04:55] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: (cleaning out your cache)
[04:55] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: the general package upgrade
[04:55] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: i don't see anything  :)
[04:56] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: cool, thanks again. i nearly drowned there.
[04:56] <pmatulis> biodegabriel: nice. keep on truckin' - and good night
[04:56] <biodegabriel> pmatulis: night
[05:30] <Andre_Gondim> how may I change the hostname of my server?
[05:31] <Andre_Gondim> hmm I used hostname command
[05:31] <WinstonSmith> any experiences with upgrading 8.04 to 10.04 while SSH'ing into the box?
[05:33] <WinstonSmith> because do-release-upgrade throws a big fat warning that it shouldnt be done over SSH but how do you do it if the box is offsite?
[05:42] <strax> I got that warning, did it anyway
[05:42] <strax> 9.10 to 10.04
[05:42] <strax> worked fine
[05:44] <WinstonSmith> strax, no problems at all? did you had to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst ?
[05:45] <strax> No, but again I was just doing one release to the next, not lts to lts
[05:45] <WinstonSmith> because the box is ~3000 km away a bit far to plug in a monitor and KB ;)
[05:45] <strax> heh
[05:46] <WinstonSmith> strax, ok thank you . i think i will ponder that for some more time
[05:46] <WinstonSmith> you know never change a running system etc  heheh
[05:46] <strax> Apparently a second ssh connection is opened up on another port, just in case
[05:47] <strax> Although I don't see how that helps things
[05:48] <WinstonSmith> yes it said so but still ... at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LucidUpgrades it says that you may have to edit the menu.lst etc. that would not be a problem but still if it MAY not run smoothly im done for it
[05:49] <strax> Is there a pressing reason to upgrade?
[05:56] <WinstonSmith> sry was afk. more ore less ... just to have a homogeneous environment
[05:57] <Jordan_U> WinstonSmith: Make sure you run it in screen, and be prepared to completely lose remote access to it if something goes wrong.
[05:57] <WinstonSmith> and since the new LTS is out...
[05:57] <WinstonSmith> Jordan_U, thanks for the tip will do !
[05:57] <Jordan_U> WinstonSmith: You're welcome.
[05:58] <WinstonSmith> Jordan_U, if i lose remote then does it reboot automatically at the end or do i gain remote again and reconnect to screen?
[05:59] <Jordan_U> WinstonSmith: I don't think it will reboot automatically.
[06:18] <arvind_khadri> Hi, I am unable to see the statistics of a windows client. I get a message telling that -l parameters are missing and also Socket connection is being timed out.
[07:54] <dulmandakh> hello, I need help on virtualization+bridge
[07:57] <dulmandakh> seems bridge setup working fine, because I can ping to the IP
[07:58] <dulmandakh> it's static
[07:59] <dulmandakh> libvirt bridge config is same as on official ubuntu documentation
[08:12] <dulmandakh> seems working, thanks
[08:23] <qiyong> how to upgrade from 10.04 to 10.04.1 ?
[09:19] <alex88> morning..i've a updated ubuntu install, i have to let my friend download the updates from my pc instead of archived..cause we have atm slow internet.. apt-mirror when installed downloads the full repositories right?
[09:20] <joschi> alex88: you're probably looking for something like apt-cacher or approx
[09:22] <alex88> joschi: what about just copy /var/cache/apt/archived?
[09:22] <alex88> *archives
[09:23] <joschi> alex88: you could do that
[09:23] <alex88> nice..i think is the faster way..then when synaptic tryies to update find there the packages..or i have to do some cache refresh or something similar to make it find those?
[10:35] <Nafallo> mmmm quagga
[14:56] <xmaxmex> fala marciopanto ;)
[14:56] <marciopanto> Hi Claudemir
[14:56] <Fabricio-Magalha> hello word !!!
[15:02] <RoyK> hi all. if I install a VM using virt-manager, the host is running Lucid and so is the guest - will this be setup using paravirt or hwvirt?
[15:06] <Patrickdk> you can do either
[15:08] <RoyK> Patrickdk: from virt-manager, how do I check if a VM is PV or not?
[15:09] <Patrickdk> dunno, I never use virt-manager
[15:09] <RoyK> ok, from the command line, then?
[15:09] <Patrickdk> dunno I never use the command line
[15:10] <Patrickdk> I only do xen and esx vm's
[15:10] <Patrickdk> I assume your doing kvm based
[15:10] <RoyK> it is
[15:10] <RoyK> I gave up paravirtualizing ubuntu with xen
[15:16] <Patrickdk> all of my linux xen's are paravirtual
[15:18] <RoyK> Patrickdk: xen told me the .iso file didn't contain a known linux install - I asked around and couldn't find how to do things properly....
[15:18] <Patrickdk> xen? iso files?
[15:18] <Patrickdk> not sure how you did it
[15:18] <RoyK> ubuntu-10.04 iso
[15:18] <Patrickdk> but then again, I never installed a xen guest from an iso
[15:18] <RoyK> never mind - kvm works well
[15:19] <Patrickdk> just used deb builder
[15:19] <RoyK> it's somehow quite understandable that ubuntu has and now redhat will move to kvm
[15:54] <SpamapS> RoyK: I believe maverick will be much more friendly to xen btw.
[15:55] <RoyK> SpamapS: doesn't really matter so long as kvm works well :)
[15:56] <SpamapS> RoyK: right, I agree. I think though, there is some desire to make it work better w/ xen because of some EC2 stuff.
[15:59]  * SpamapS realizes he has wandered into completely unfamiliar territory at this point.
[15:59] <Patrickdk> yep
[16:04] <RoyK> operating ubuntu is quite boring, really
[16:05] <RoyK> there's lots of more action with certain other platforms
[16:12] <JamesHarrison> Here's an interesting one: How the heck do I get the scst module into the kernel, preferably without doing the compile-from-source dance?
[16:33] <RoyK> JamesHarrison: a kernel module must be compiled for a compatible kernel - if you, say, download a redhat kernel module, it will probably use symbols not in the ubuntu kernel
[16:33] <JamesHarrison> RoyK: I found https://launchpad.net/~ast/+archive/scst which is a precompiled pae kernel with the scst module, which has worked a treat now I've actually booted into it. :)
[16:34] <RoyK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/scst
[16:34] <RoyK> I guess you've been there already, though :)
[16:34] <JamesHarrison> yeah, that too- the fact that you reboot and ofc it doesn't boot into the new kernel confused me :)
[16:35] <JamesHarrison> Too used to gentoo, heh :)
[16:35] <RoyK> running Lucid?
[16:35] <RoyK> with grub2?
[16:35] <JamesHarrison> Updated /etc/defaults/grub.conf to have the correct default, now works fine
[16:35] <RoyK> grub2 is a PITA imho
[16:35] <RoyK> k
[16:35] <JamesHarrison> Beats grub1/lilo :D
[16:36] <RoyK> grub1 works well
[16:36]  * Patrickdk hasn't had any issues with grub2, on >20 systems
[16:36] <RoyK> lilo is something that belongs in the ninetees
[16:36] <RoyK> Patrickdk: well, it works, but I find the configuration easier in old grub1
[16:37] <Patrickdk> ya, cause the old grub didn't do much, well actually didn't do anything :)
[16:37] <Patrickdk> grub2 is a mini-os
[16:38] <RoyK> perhaps I'm just being overly conservative here :)
[16:38]  * RoyK wants to bomb Oracle
[16:38] <RoyK> closing down opensolaris was evil
[16:43] <bobnn> Hello.  I have a routing issue on server 8.04 - is this the right place?
[16:45] <bobnn> The LARTC list seems to be gone :(
[16:55] <arrrghhh> hey all.  not really an ubuntu question, more of  a networking question... netmasks confuse me, if i just want the netmask to include one ip, do i set the mask to 0?
[16:55] <arrrghhh> so <IP_ADDRESS>/0 would just include that one IP?
[16:59] <shauno> I think /32 would
[17:00] <arrrghhh> because that's how many bits are borrowed...?
[17:00] <arrrghhh> netmasks confuse the hell out of me.
[17:00] <shauno> I'm not sure /0 is a legal operand.  if you look at an IP as binary rather than decimal, you get something like 11111111.11111111.11111111.11111111   .. the /n tells you how many bits of that aren't allowed to change
[17:01] <arrrghhh> oh i see
[17:01] <arrrghhh> so /32 would say no bits can change basically.
[17:01] <shauno> so /8 covers every IP under the first quad, /16 everything under the first and second, etc
[17:01] <shauno> yeah.  /32 would allow no bits to vary from what you gave
[17:01] <arrrghhh> i had that backwards then.
[17:01] <arrrghhh> ok
[17:02] <shauno> in theory; never tried it because that's a very odd use for netmasks :)
[17:02] <arrrghhh> so <IP_ADDRESS>-255... would /24 work for that...?
[17:02] <arrrghhh> lol
[17:02] <arrrghhh> i'm trying to do QoS on my dd-wrt router.
[17:02] <shauno> /24 would give you 192.168.0.*
[17:03] <arrrghhh> even if i specify the mask starting at <IP_ADDRESS>?
[17:03] <shauno> I believe so, because 24 (3*8) is the first three quads
[17:03] <arrrghhh> hrm
[17:04] <arrrghhh> i took a class that was supposed to teach me this stuff.  blargh.
[17:04] <arrrghhh> it helped me with understanding how it pieces together at a high level, but building netmasks still confuses me.
[17:05] <shauno> after that, every 1 you add halves the space, so /25 would give you xxx.xxx.xxx.0-127 and xxx.xxx.xxx.128-255
[17:05] <arrrghhh> i see.
[17:05] <shauno> /26 would be 0-65, 64-127, 128-19... something.  191?
[17:05] <arrrghhh> perhaps i should change my dhcp range to match the netmask.
[17:06] <shauno> netmasks make complete sense when you look at it as being 4 8bit binary numbers, rather than just 4 decimal numbers.  it's going between the two that confuses everyone :)
[17:06] <arrrghhh> yes!
[17:07] <arrrghhh> that's exactly the problem.  the conversion in my head gets lost somewhere.
[17:08] <shauno> I dunno if it's just me, but taking the first 4 bits off 11111111 is much easier to picture, than taking the first 4 bits off 255
[17:09] <shauno> but just halving the available addresses every time /n increments seems a pretty usable shortcut
[17:11] <arrrghhh_> well hopefully my QoS works right now.
[17:12] <arrrghhh> that's better.
[17:14] <arrrghhh> sweet!  QoS appears to be working.  hopefully the router doesn't freak out again.
[17:14] <arrrghhh> last time i set this up based on port numbers, and the router couldn't handle it.  kept resetting and freakin out, had to turn it off entirely.
[19:27] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm. By chance there any pacemaker people here that might could help me?
[19:51] <ruben23> hi guys are there programs can recover deletd files on ubuntu-server .?
[19:51] <IdleOne> !recover | ruben23
[20:47] <crunchbang> lkjkk
[21:07] <dominicdinada> keep getting problems with apache2 and fqdn and i followed this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
[21:08] <dominicdinada> Invalid command 'diab', perhaps misspelled or defined by a module not included in the server configuration                                                                         [fail]
[21:21] <shauno> where does 'diab' appear in your config?  the term doesn't appear on that page
[21:22] <shauno> ah, he's already left, nm
[21:23] <jca1981> Please help me with system recovery, tried to upgrade to lucid via ssh and my connection died, now it wont boot. i can get in via install cd and run dpkg --configure -a but if fails with "could not find image (/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-24-server"
[22:31] <cloakable> jca1981: apt-get -f install
[23:58] <John> hello there.  I am looking for someone who can help me with mounting windows vista shares with cifs  (they are very slow for some reason)  I'm using jaunty server


[00:08] <delinquentme> http://pastie.org/4722903  QUESTION on this one.
[00:08] <delinquentme> so it now seems that the "trunk" mentioned here is kind of akin to a branch in git
[00:08] <delinquentme> like in this example ... you're initializing a project ... as well as a subset of that project with specific code
[00:38] <delinquentme> silly question: is bazaar named after the practices in "the cathedral and the bazaar" ?
[01:20] <delinquentme> when we're talking the information which is returned by the command " bzr info <repo> "
[01:20] <delinquentme> this will be determined FIRSTLY by if there is a .bzr file within that directory
[01:20] <delinquentme> right?
[01:23] <SamB_MacG5> delinquentme: depending on plugins, .git and whatever SVN uses can also matter
[01:23] <fullermd> info will find the nearest branch upward from where you are, and talk about stuff relative to that.
[01:24] <delinquentme> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch:
[01:24] <delinquentme> so if i get that ....
[01:24] <delinquentme> bzr is actually checking the parent dir to my current one ?
[01:24] <delinquentme> and finding nothing?
[01:25] <fullermd> No, it'll check . then ../ then ../../ then ../../../ then...
[01:25] <fullermd> Not a branch means it found its way up to / without hitting one.
[01:29] <delinquentme> thats interesting.
[01:29] <delinquentme> also does anyone in here have a diagram of which they are confident
[01:29] <delinquentme> in how it portrays a correct usage of bzr branches / trunks with regards to directory structure?
[01:30] <delinquentme> basically im after:
[01:30] <delinquentme> " Are branches parallel directories with the same files which happen to vary only slightly ? "
[01:30] <fullermd> I think you're trying to assign _way_ too much intrinsic meaning to "trunk".  Unless you're running a telco, maybe.
[01:30] <delinquentme> I'm just not sure about how branches work haha
[01:31] <fullermd> "trunk" isn't a technical term in any modern VCS.  It's purely a _social_ term used to refer to specific branches with social meaning.
[01:31] <delinquentme> like project_main/branch_1
[01:31] <delinquentme> project_main/branch_2
[01:31] <delinquentme> ok check
[01:31] <delinquentme> where branch_1 and branch_2 are very close in their history
[01:31] <fullermd> A branch is abstractly just a particular set of files with a particular history, and concretely an instance of that in the filesystem.
[01:32] <fullermd> It may be closely related to some other branch, distantly related, or completely unrelated.
[01:32] <delinquentme> so wait. branches dont intrinsically map to different directories??
[01:32] <delinquentme> because it seems then I've got that all wrong when it comes to bzr
[01:33] <fullermd> In bzr usage (leaving aside exotic or experimental stuff), a branch exists as a single dir (tree).
[01:33] <SamB_MacG5> delinquentme: well, generally they actually do have directories associated with them, but those directories need contain nothing besides .bzr ...
[01:34] <delinquentme> fullermd, Ok so if I want to work on multiple branches from a single project
[01:34] <delinquentme> I could possibly have a primary project dir ... and within that a dir corresponding to each branch?
[01:34] <fullermd> Then you would generally have a dir for each branch.
[01:34] <fullermd> Right.
[01:35] <fullermd> Often, that project dir would also be a shared repo, so as to avoid extra space/IO usage.  But that doesn't change anything semantically in your operations.
[01:36] <delinquentme> fullermd, in this case ... what does a shared repo mean?
[01:36] <delinquentme> are you saying shared with other users?
[01:36] <fullermd> No, shared between the branches.
[01:37] <delinquentme> ah! ok
[01:37] <delinquentme> YESSSSSSSSs
[01:37] <delinquentme> I UNDERSTAND!!!!!
[01:37] <fullermd> What's your VCS background (if any)?  You were talking git earlier?
[01:37] <delinquentme> git =]
[01:37] <delinquentme> yar
[01:37] <delinquentme> right now im seeing no real issues with bzr
[01:37] <delinquentme> id looove something to allow me to edit commit history
[01:37] <delinquentme> but other than that im OK with it
[01:38] <fullermd> 'k.  In git, "repo" is the term for the main visible thing you deal with.  You've got your working tree there, and the branches and revisions are abstract 'hidden' stuff inside it.
[01:38] <delinquentme> yeah
[01:38] <delinquentme> whereas in bzr branches actually have visible locations
[01:38] <fullermd> In bzr, "branch" is the main visible thing you deal with, which contains the working tree, and also the branch metadata internally.
[01:38] <delinquentme> OHHHHH  (tentative )
[01:39] <fullermd> "repo" refers to an interal thing that holds the revisions.  In the simplest setup, that's hidden away inside each branch.
[01:39] <fullermd> A "shared repo" allows a single repo to be used simultaneously by multiple branches.
[01:39] <fullermd> So if you have 2 branches that are identical, with 100 revisions, and then each branch adds 1 new one:
[01:39] <fullermd> - With "standalone" branches, you're storing 101 revs in one place, and 101 in another, for 202 total.
[01:40] <fullermd> - With a shared repo, you're storing 100 common revs once, and 1 new one from each side, for 102 total.
[01:40] <delinquentme> fullermd, you're good hahah
[01:40] <fullermd> That saves disk space and IOPS and filesystem cache and inodes and blah blah blah.
[01:40] <delinquentme> OK so when youve got code that you've pulled down from the main project
[01:40] <delinquentme> and you're about to start on a big new feature
[01:40] <fullermd> But it doesn't directly affect anything you do at the UI level; you never interact with the repo itself, just the two branches the same as if they were standalone.
[01:40] <delinquentme> in git you'd make a new branch
[01:41] <delinquentme> in bzr what would you do?
[01:41] <SamB_MacG5> fullermd: except, of course, to set things up in the first place
[01:41] <fullermd> Same thing.  Just that the branch would be another dir in your filesystem, instead of a 'name' in your existing dir.
[01:41] <SamB_MacG5> and that things like qlog will care ...
[01:41] <delinquentme> awesome!
[01:41] <delinquentme> SamB_MacG5, I was about to jump in and ask just that
[01:41] <fullermd> delinquentme: You may find http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs/PiecesInBrief useful.
[01:42] <delinquentme> so the separation between shared and standalone happens basically in how you initalized the directory
[01:42] <fullermd> (and possibly some of the other stuff under http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs)
[01:42] <fullermd> There's a little stuff at the end of the PiecesInLength page that tries to do some cross-VCS comparisons of the terminology/subdisions.
[01:43] <delinquentme> fullermd, can I ask what you do?
[01:43] <fullermd> Or change it afterward.  You can take a standalone branch and adjust it to use a shared repo, and vice versa.  But yeah, the only time you really do anything directly to/with a shared repo is in setting one up.  The rest of the time, you just deal with branches, and bzr does the repo stuff internally.
[01:43]  * fullermd shrugs.
[01:44] <fullermd> Programming, sysadmin, sit on IRC and make bad puns.  What everyone else does.
[01:44] <delinquentme> like im curious how you got good wit both bzr and git
[01:44] <delinquentme> are you a rails programmer?
[01:44] <fullermd> Ghod no.  I have standards  ;p
[01:44] <delinquentme> hahaha
[01:44] <SamB_MacG5> snakes on a plane?
[01:44] <delinquentme> @_@ you made that movie?
[01:45]  * delinquentme calmed humility
[01:45] <SamB_MacG5> what?
[01:45] <fullermd> I'm good with bzr 'cuz I've been using it for...   uh...  god, like 7 years now?
[01:45] <delinquentme> which do you use more?
[01:45] <delinquentme> git / bzr
[01:45] <delinquentme> and why?
[01:45] <fullermd> I'm good with git 'cuz...  well, I'm not.  I just know enough about its general structure to make reasonably good bzr comparisons.
[01:46] <fullermd> Only time I use git is when I deal with other projects that are in git.  Ditto with hg and monotone etc.
[01:46] <fullermd> git just isn't confident enough to use more often.   See 'git --help'.
[01:46] <fullermd> % bzr rocks
[01:46] <fullermd> It sure does!
[01:46] <delinquentme> the docs are scaring me
[01:47] <fullermd> break-lock is one of those escape-hatch sorta commands.  You should probably never need to know it.
 SamB says: [<lambdabot> emertens says: screw ruby on rails, I'm using snakes on a plane] <SamB> is that a Python web framework?
[01:48] <delinquentme> so im thinking that if the file isn't setup as a bzr repo ... then this could be a possible reason im getting this:
[01:48] <delinquentme> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir
[01:48] <delinquentme> when attempting to push
[01:48] <delinquentme> haha
[01:49] <fullermd> Mmm, could mean something is odd with the filesystem or something on the server, not letting it do something it thinks it should be able to.
[01:49] <fullermd> Or possibly something like a half-setup branch, where there's enough that bzr thinks it's a branch (otherwise it would be trying to create one), but not enough that the lock dir is where it should be.
[01:49] <delinquentme> well actually nm it has to be a bzr repo because I fetched a branch from it
[01:50] <fullermd> Oh, or just some kinda permission thing, of course.
[01:52] <delinquentme> ok so i've got a project_dir and within in that a trunk dir
[01:52] <delinquentme> ( thats what they called it .. im not trying to make problems =P )
[01:52] <delinquentme> so that should be a bzr branch
[01:52]  * fullermd nods.
[01:53] <delinquentme> probably what they're using as i guess you could call the "main storage branch"
[01:53] <delinquentme> and then I need to fork off of that branch and create new ones to edit / test / run needle-pokey-like experimentation on
[01:54] <SamB_MacG5> delinquentme: trunk is the conventional name for that sort of branch, yes
[01:54] <SamB_MacG5> it's just that bzr doesn't know that
[01:54] <delinquentme> YESSSSSS
[01:54] <delinquentme> ( learning )
[01:54]  * delinquentme 5 year old grin
[01:55] <fullermd> So you'd do something like `cd $project_dir ; bzr branch trunk needle-pokey-like ; cd needle-pokey-like ; *grab needle*`
[01:57] <delinquentme> ok so I think... they made a dir and didn't actually set it up
[01:57] <delinquentme> so they've got a production env running at /usr/local/derp
[01:58] <delinquentme> i want to copy whats in derp ... into the /home/shared/sources/derpdb/trunk
[01:58] <delinquentme> cp /usr/local/derp /home/shared/sources/derpdb/trunk
[02:00] <SamB_MacG5> derp?
[02:01] <fullermd> derpdb.  It's the newest Web Scale NoSQL craze.  Get with the program, man.
[02:01]  * SamB_MacG5 grumbles about dict(1) not getting urban dictionary defs
[02:03] <delinquentme> lolol
[02:03] <delinquentme> LISTEN gais its in development OKE?
[02:03] <delinquentme> its a social integration specific solution.
[02:03] <delinquentme> facebook meets databases for cat owners
[02:05] <SamB_MacG5> do I have to sign an NDA now?
[02:06] <fullermd> No need.  Your cat has already done so on your behalf.
[02:08] <SamB_MacG5> darn them and their windows-only anti-cat-typing software!
[02:09] <delinquentme> SamB_MacG5, have a facebook?
[02:09] <delinquentme> ever looked a a cat pic online?
[02:09] <delinquentme> then you've already agreed.
[02:49] <delinquentme> oh.
[02:49] <delinquentme> where relative to the branches ...
[02:49] <delinquentme> should the .bzr file b e?
[02:49] <delinquentme> they should be siblings right?
[02:49] <mgrandi> should be inside the branch folder
[02:50] <mgrandi> there is a .bzr folder per branch
[02:50] <delinquentme> kk
[02:50] <mgrandi> hidden if you are on mac and linux
[02:50] <mgrandi> windows too
[02:50] <delinquentme> so what might be happening if im getting "not a branch"
[02:50] <delinquentme> when I attempt to branch a dir which clearly contains a .bzr file
[02:50] <mgrandi> are you in the repository directory?
[02:51] <mgrandi> instead of the branch dir
[02:51] <delinquentme> well let me step back
[02:51] <delinquentme> im trying to copy whats on the main repo
[02:51] <delinquentme> to local machine
[02:52] <delinquentme> is branch the right command?
[02:52] <mgrandi> yeah, that will branch the entire history for that branch
[02:52] <delinquentme> ok so yeah somethings wrong them
[02:52] <delinquentme> then
[02:53] <delinquentme> Umm when i do bzr info within that branch
[02:53] <delinquentme> it lists a parent branch
[02:53] <mgrandi> is this just a normal branch?
[02:53] <mgrandi> does it have a repository?
[02:53] <delinquentme> would that prevent me from being able to branch a child from the parent ... if a grand parent exists?
[02:54] <delinquentme> so I just made the repository .. by copying what was in production
[02:54] <delinquentme>  a straight cp
[02:54] <delinquentme> operation
[02:54] <mgrandi> i mean on the server
[02:54] <fullermd> No, parent is a cosmetic thing, really.  Just a default location.
[02:54] <mgrandi> was it Repo / branch
[02:54] <delinquentme> oh and the server has both production and the main repo
[02:54] <delinquentme> ( I know not safe )
[02:55] <mgrandi> so trying to branch fromt he server is not working?
[02:55] <delinquentme> yeah
[02:55] <delinquentme> ditto
[02:55] <delinquentme> ALSO another question ... when I go to push :parent
[02:55] <delinquentme> in this situation
[02:55] <mgrandi> can you do a 'du -hac' for the server directory you are trying to branch from?
[02:55] <mgrandi> and paste that to pastebin or something
[02:55] <delinquentme> that will push to whatever dir I branched from right?
[02:55] <delinquentme> sure
[02:56] <mgrandi> if you saved the push directory (by doing like bzr push --remember) then bzr push will push it to the remembered directory
[02:56] <delinquentme> its large haha
[02:56] <mgrandi> yeah its fine
[02:56] <delinquentme> ok it overflowed my history in bash
[02:56] <fullermd> "du -hac"?  Is that a Rammstein song?
[02:56] <delinquentme> lol smh
[02:56] <mgrandi> xD
[02:57] <mgrandi> it can be
[02:57] <delinquentme> so like theres just a ton of images
[02:57] <delinquentme> was there something specific you were after?
[02:57] <mgrandi> just do it on the .bzr directory then
[02:57] <mgrandi> du -hac /repo/branch/bzr
[02:57] <mgrandi> du -hac /repo/branch/.bzr
[02:57] <delinquentme> http://pastebin.com/1U1M831m
[02:58] <mgrandi> ok
[02:58] <delinquentme> I think thats what you want :D
[02:58] <mgrandi> so that seems fine
[02:58] <delinquentme> aweso
[02:58] <mgrandi> so
[02:58] <mgrandi> branching from that directory
[02:58] <mgrandi> says its not a branch?
[02:59] <delinquentme> branching from trunk yeah
[02:59] <mgrandi> so this is from a server -> local machine?
[02:59] <delinquentme> from my local machine through sftp
[02:59] <mgrandi> try doing it on the server itself (through ssh or something)
[02:59] <delinquentme> bingo
[02:59] <mgrandi> just make a tmp branch or something
[02:59] <delinquentme> so make a local branch
[03:00] <mgrandi> ?
[03:00] <mgrandi> well just to see if that works
[03:00] <delinquentme> do I have any options if the repo is huge?
[03:00] <mgrandi> could try a lighweight branch
[03:01] <mgrandi> this is just to see if it bzr thinks its a branch
[03:01] <fullermd> info would be quicker.
[03:01] <mgrandi> he says info was working but its  not branching?
[03:01] <mgrandi> try info then
[03:03] <delinquentme> yeh info works
[03:03] <fullermd> Well, if info shows a branch there, branch'ing from it should work.  If it doesn't, there's probably something pretty deep going wrong somewhere.
[03:03] <fullermd> And branch'ing from that same location fails?
[03:03] <mgrandi> try posting your .bzrlog
[03:03] <mgrandi> maybe its throwing an error
[03:03] <delinquentme> http://pastebin.com/BmT6mdD4
[03:04] <fullermd> 'k, and what's the 'branch' command you're trying to run and its output?
[03:05] <delinquentme> soo I dont have a .bzrlog file within the trunk
[03:05] <fullermd> No, it would be in ~
[03:06] <delinquentme> http://pastebin.com/wDxaBiZS
[03:06] <delinquentme> oic
[03:07] <delinquentme> nothing in ~/ either
[03:07] <mgrandi> its a hidden file
[03:07] <mgrandi> .bzrlog
[03:07] <fullermd> 'k, do an info on that URL you're trying to branch from.
[03:07] <fullermd> .bzr.log actually.
[03:07] <fullermd> But there's probably enough in UI output to track things down.
[03:08] <fullermd> (also, if you have sufficient access on the server and it's got bzr, using bzr+ssh will be better than sftp as a rule.  But almost certainly not germane to the "getting things working" level)
[03:09] <delinquentme> you lost me after germane
[03:10] <fullermd> It's like silic except with a lower forward voltage drop.
[03:10] <fullermd> 's mostly just an aside, so ignore it for the moment.
[03:10] <delinquentme> lol ok
[03:11] <delinquentme> so I should try bzr+ssh
[03:11] <delinquentme> i get a command not found
[03:12] <fullermd> It'll generally be faster (often a _lot_ faster).  But so far, that probably means it'll fail faster.
[03:12] <delinquentme> $ bzr branch bzr+ssh://nacho
[03:12] <delinquentme> bash: bzr: command not found
[03:12] <fullermd> That probably means bzr isn't installed on the far end.
[03:12] <fullermd> Which does mean that bzr+ssh won't work, and you'd need to use sftp.
[03:13] <fullermd> But also makes one step back and ask if there really is a bzr branch on the server at all...
[03:13] <delinquentme> here is the log file https://gist.github.com/3726216
[03:13] <delinquentme> well bzr info wouldn't work if it wasn't installed right?
[03:14] <fullermd> Yeah, that doesn't tell us anything; 's all about your local stuff, which presumably is fine.
[03:14] <delinquentme> and IDK what having a /trunk/.bzr file means ... but I THINK that means its a bzr branch right?
[03:14] <fullermd> bzr doesn't require anything bzr-ish on the server side over dumb transports (which sftp is)
[03:14] <fullermd> It's entirely possible to have bzr branches hosted via those methods on servers that don't themselves have bzr installed.
[03:14] <delinquentme> oh no im sshed in and running "bzr info"
[03:14] <delinquentme> ive got ssh access as well as trying to setup the remote pushes for bzr
[03:15] <delinquentme> so I can do like bzr push :parent
[03:15] <delinquentme> and move it localmachine >> server
[03:15] <fullermd> OK, I think we're (at least I'm) getting a bit overloaded with multiple questions at once here.
[03:16] <delinquentme> ok so 1) I think it has bzr installed on the server
[03:16] <fullermd> Let's split 'em out.  First off, the "bzr branch sftp://..." leaving to "Not a branch" error.
[03:16] <mgrandi> so, have you pushed the branch locally into the server yet?
[03:16] <delinquentme> I have not mgrandi
[03:16] <mgrandi> so there is no branch at /nacho/whatever/trunk?
[03:16] <fullermd> Why is that happening?  The most obvious is "well, there's no branch there".  Are you expecting one to be so?
[03:17] <delinquentme> but I've verified that there are infact files in the dir that im attempting to branch from
[03:17] <delinquentme> externally ( via ssh )
[03:17] <delinquentme> so I know the files are there ... I know bzr is installed on the server
[03:17] <delinquentme> and I know there is a trunk/.bzr directory
[03:18] <delinquentme> mgrandi, I've not yet pulled down anything locally from *this* server
[03:18] <delinquentme> they have another dev server that I managed to pull from but thats within another directory all together
[03:18] <fullermd> What does bzr info sftp://nacho......   tell you?
[03:19] <delinquentme> https://gist.github.com/3726216
[03:19] <delinquentme> nacho was a replacement name -- this is the actual machine and links and all that action
[03:20] <delinquentme> SHIT. you can see this is a rails project =P
[03:20] <mgrandi> we all hate you now. (just kidding)
[03:20] <fullermd> 'k.  You can ssh into the server, right?  And it does have bzr installed?
[03:21] <fullermd> 's cool.    It's only polite.
[03:21] <delinquentme> yeah .. I mean I think it has it installed because Im running "bzr info trunk/"
[03:21] <delinquentme> and getting solid output
[03:21] <delinquentme> hahah
[03:21] <delinquentme> i dont wear tight pants
[03:21] <delinquentme> ... all the time
[03:21] <delinquentme> but it isss friday nightttt
[03:22] <fullermd> 'k.  Do an 'info' on the server, using the full path, and paste that.
[03:23] <delinquentme> https://gist.github.com/3726216
[03:25] <fullermd> 'k, well something doesn't match up.  You're in /home/share/source/BETYdb/ when you run that command?
[03:25] <delinquentme> yar
[03:25] <fullermd> Is sftp chroot'ing you somewhere?
[03:25] <delinquentme> HMMMM
[03:25] <delinquentme> good question
[03:26] <delinquentme> well it could be .. but im giving it the full system path sooo
[03:26] <delinquentme> ( when sftping in )
[03:26] <fullermd> Well, if you were chroot'd, the full path would be the path under that root, which would be sure to be wrong.
[03:26] <delinquentme> so that should negate that right?
[03:26] <fullermd> I'd hope not.  If it did, chroot would be useless  ;p
[03:27] <delinquentme> me google
[03:27] <delinquentme> ah!
[03:27] <fullermd> Oh no, you can probably just test it manually by sftp'ing in and ls'ing around.
[03:27] <delinquentme> oh is that a real ...
[03:27] <delinquentme> whats the word?
[03:27] <delinquentme> http ftp ssh
[03:27] <fullermd> "thingy"
[03:28] <delinquentme> ROFL
[03:28] <delinquentme> it might be chrooting me to my user dir
[03:28] <delinquentme> fullermd, you might have just won
[03:28] <fullermd> Sweet.  I'd like to thank the Academy...
[03:29] <delinquentme> yarp.
[03:29] <delinquentme> nailed it
[03:29]  * delinquentme dances
[03:29] <fullermd> I'm a little curious about bzr+ssh not working, since bzr is obviously installed.
[03:29] <delinquentme> obvi-rus-ree
[03:29] <fullermd> Maybe it's in a weird place your $PATH is covering in an interactive session?
[03:34] <delinquentme> OK new question all together
[03:34] <delinquentme> hopefully one substantially simpler
[03:35] <delinquentme> How do you guys setup your development from your production servers
[03:35] <delinquentme> and how do you deploy
[03:35] <delinquentme> in rails ( sorry ) theres all kinds of plugins to do things on deploy and hooks and needles and spears
[03:35] <delinquentme> what does a deploy look like for you guys on bzr
[03:35] <fullermd> I'm old school.  I use Makefile's.
[03:36] <fullermd> (well, except for the things where I use my embryonic make(1) replacement, but philosophically the same)
[03:36] <fullermd> In ruby I guess you'd use rake.
[03:36] <mgrandi> i wish python had rake.
[03:36] <mgrandi> but installing stuff from pip is super hit or miss.
[03:37] <fullermd> There's some [im]moral equivalent.
[03:37] <delinquentme> so you kind of compile stuff
[03:37] <delinquentme> and then shove it to the server
[03:37] <delinquentme> yeah
[03:37] <fullermd> No, just use make as a way to wrap the deployment stuff.
[03:37] <delinquentme> rake it basically the dingo that hops everything along
[03:37] <delinquentme> ^ intelligible
[03:37] <fullermd> Could about as easily use a shell script for 95% of it, since it doesn't really rely on much dependancy tracking.
[03:38] <fullermd> But make's there, and already provides me targets and chaining and suchlike, so..
[03:40] <delinquentme> fullermd, could I see one of your makefiles?
[03:40] <delinquentme> im familiar with shell scripts but not make files
[03:40] <delinquentme> Makefiles*
[03:41] <fullermd> For web app deployment?  Mmm.  They're mostly pretty abstracted for all the flexibility we use; not a good template to learn from.
[03:43] <fullermd> (plus the incredibly nasty Stupid Tricks they do to get around the weakness of make and/or sh as languages.  Part of the reason for my replacement...)
[03:44] <fullermd> Eep, didn't realize how late it was getting.  I better get back to work...
[03:45] <delinquentme> yeah i need to shower
[03:45] <delinquentme> THANKS A TONNNNNNNNNNNN
[03:47] <mgrandi> anytime
[04:05] <delinquentme> Oh... now If when I sftp into the server
[04:05] <delinquentme> and I can access root FROM the sftp
[04:05] <delinquentme> erm not root
[04:05] <delinquentme> i mean I can access /
[17:19] <SamB_MacG5> soo .. bzr bisect doesn't use the terms "good" and "bad" ...
[18:10] <SamB_MacG5> gah, I hate imperative code
[18:48] <delinquentme> ok talk to me about the central repo
[18:48] <delinquentme> it doesnt have files in it??
[18:57] <delinquentme> also which development method is closer to git? centralized?
[18:58] <ScottK> No.
[19:00] <SamB_MacG5> delinquentme: not much point having a checkout in a published branch
[19:00] <SamB_MacG5> generally
[19:01] <SamB_MacG5> er, I should say working tree
[19:01] <SamB_MacG5> checkout means something a bit strange here
[19:03] <delinquentme> ok so if a central repo doesnt have files
[19:03] <delinquentme> when you branch from the central repo
[19:03] <delinquentme> where are the files coming from?
[19:03] <SamB_MacG5> what is it that you think a version control system does?
[19:04] <delinquentme> Im used to git ... so like im thinking the files are in a central origin
[19:04] <ScottK> Branches are branches.  There in nothing that bzr considers a mster.
[19:04] <delinquentme> and git is controlling the modification to that
[19:04] <ScottK> You can do checkouts, but that's more like svn than git.
[19:04] <SamB_MacG5> where do the files come from when you clone a bare git repository?
[19:04] <ScottK> (no offline commits for example)
[19:04] <delinquentme> im not sure I know what a bare git repo is...
[19:05] <delinquentme> like when you clone a repo ... all of the files are in that repo
[19:05] <delinquentme> and you then copy them from the repo to your local
[19:05] <delinquentme> hence why im confused about where the files reside in a bzr setup
[19:05] <SamB_MacG5> delinquentme: have you never seen a plain-http-published git repository?
[19:05] <delinquentme> sure
[19:06] <SamB_MacG5> normally those have names ending in .git, and are bare
[19:06] <delinquentme> hmm
[19:06] <delinquentme> what does bare mean?
[19:06] <SamB_MacG5> in git, bare means there is no working tree, it's just what would go in the .git directory
[19:07] <SamB_MacG5> anyway, in bzr, the files come from the branch
[19:07] <SamB_MacG5> regardless of whether or not there is a working tree
[19:08] <delinquentme> ok ok yeah so you're not saying that there are no files ... by bare you mean that there are no modifications which lie outside of commits
[19:08] <delinquentme> so there should infact be files within the branch?
[19:09] <SamB_MacG5> basically, the files are hidden inside a database
[19:09] <delinquentme> OH.
[19:09] <delinquentme> so then it IS empty
[19:09] <delinquentme> and when i pull from a central repo
[19:09] <delinquentme> it spits out stuff from that DB
[19:09] <delinquentme> to allow me to populate the branch i just made
[19:10] <SamB_MacG5> that's actually where it always gets the files ;-)
[19:12] <delinquentme> so is this like a special bzr DB?
[19:12] <delinquentme> orrrr is it a mysql DB? or what
[19:12] <SamB_MacG5> yeah, special bzr db
[19:13] <delinquentme> So should the main repo be completely naked?
[19:13] <delinquentme> devoid of files?
[19:13] <delinquentme> not even a hidden .bzr
[19:13] <SamB_MacG5> the .bzr directory is where the database is kept
[19:14] <delinquentme> kk
[19:15] <SamB_MacG5> (although, with shared repositories, the database with the actual file contents would be in the repo's .bzr dir)
[19:17] <SamB_MacG5> (the branch's .bzr dir would then mostly serve to tell bzr which commit in the repository was the last one on this branch)
[19:19] <delinquentme> you guys dont usually have a server displaying the primary repo to incoming traffic do you?
[19:21] <SamB_MacG5> Many things have trunk at lp:~<user|group>/<project>/trunk
[19:22] <SamB_MacG5> so, um, depends on the project
[19:30] <delinquentme> so the distinction to pick --trees or --no-trees
[19:30] <delinquentme> is whether you're going to be editing files within that directory?
[19:44] <delinquentme> "One of the main reasons we don't want to create a working tree is that the tree needs to be updated by each push leading to potential problems where the workign tree checked out is out of date compared to the actual repository."
[19:44] <delinquentme> does that make sense?
[22:19] <SamB_MacG5> wow the bzr bisect tests run slowly with --coverage ...