[21:07] <andi3> hallo
[21:09] <andi3> I'm looking for a way to run/monitor process, which is accessible for 'normal' users
[21:10] <andi3> Is Upstart only for 'root' users?
[21:11] <andi3> Is it possible to have /home/USER/init directory?
[21:11] <andi3> where users can put their own config files
[21:13] <ion> It’s in TODO, but not implemented yet.
[21:15] <andi3> There is something running: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/upstart-devel/2010-December/001345.html
[21:19] <andi3> ion: thanks!
[21:21] <andi3> ion: do you know, is there a bug/task for it in launchpad?
[21:31] <andi3> it may happen between 0.5 an 1.0 :-), as per https://answers.launchpad.net/upstart/+question/5219


[20:52] <ernstp> started testing Trusty now!
[20:53] <ernstp> after the upgrade the xfce panel show above mythtv
[20:59] <tgm4883_> ernstp, that is on a default mythbuntu install?
[20:59] <ernstp> tgm4883_, it's an upgrade from precise
[21:02] <ernstp> compiz not installed
[21:15] <ernstp> xbmc doesn't have the same problem
[21:49] <tgm4883_> ernstp, can you file a bug?
[22:12] <ernstp> tgm4883_, sure, will tomorrow


[15:51] <JustCurious> hello, I am trying to install the package PageEdit on Ubuntu Mate 20.04, but it's not in my repositories why?
[15:52] <JustCurious> accordint to https://www.faqforge.com/linux/how-to-install-pageedit-xhtml-editor-on-ubuntu/ it should be available, simply typing sudo apt install pageedit
[16:53] <tomreyn> is anyone aware of a public statement that Ubuntu MATE LTS releases are moving to a 5 year support lifecycle? I saw a 2025 EOL for 20.04 noted on the English language Wikipedia, but there's no reference there to back it up (so I added a 'citation missing' there for now).
[16:56] <superkuh> Seems unlikely that Ubuntu MATE would change it's lifecycle to be different from Ubuntu's.
[17:00] <tomreyn> well ubuntu's is 5 years for LTS. i think most flavors have 3 years for LTS
[17:00] <superkuh> It's 4.
[17:00] <superkuh> Holy shit. I'm wrong.
[17:00] <superkuh> It's been 5 all this time?
[17:00] <superkuh> Huh.
[17:03] <tomreyn> superkuh: 3y for 18.04 LTS https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/ubuntu-mate-18-04-lts-reaches-end-of-life/23966
[17:03] <superkuh> With the 4 year cycles between lts's I always thought it was 4.
[17:04] <superkuh> Although I still use an Ubuntu 14.04 with MATE desktop machine under Canonical's ESM program today. Nice that ESM support/bug fixes extend so long.
[17:05] <tomreyn> it's been 5y (free, public support) for Ubuntu LTS releases for as long as i can think, 4y to cover the time until the next LTS, then another year to have time to migrate.
[17:05] <tomreyn> 14.04 ESM covers select packages, probably not those used by the MATE desktop
[17:06] <superkuh> Yes.
[17:06] <sixwheeledbeast> I always recall it as 1 year less but maybe that changed over the years.
[17:06] <superkuh> But it's not like MATE has changed a lot in the last decade.
[17:08] <tomreyn> so, unless we learn differently, i'd expect Ubuntu MATE to stick to the 3y LTS lifecycle.
[17:12] <tomreyn> s/until the next LTS/until the next but one LTS/


[03:32] <pitti> Good morning
[06:58] <jasoncwarner_> morning everyone!
[06:58] <RAOF> Aloha!
[06:58] <jasoncwarner_> hey RAOF ! how are things?
[06:58] <RAOF> Pretty good.
[06:59] <RAOF> Just getting down to some xserver hacking.
[06:59] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: saw the nexus running ubuntu! super awesome :)
[06:59]  * desrt is wondering if he should make the jump...
[07:00] <RAOF> Yeah; and it turns out you only need to disable some nux functionality that Unity doesn't use!
[07:04] <jasoncwarner_> desrt: DO IT!
[07:05] <RAOF> desrt: To Quantal? You're not already there? :P
[07:05] <desrt> to ubuntu on my nexus 7...
[07:05] <desrt> i've been on quantal for months :p
[07:06] <RAOF> Yeah, I though so.
[08:41] <pgraner> RAOF, I'm getting consistent segfaults in X just moving windows around on 12.10 running in KVM      http://paste.ubuntu.com/1299571/
[08:41] <pgraner> RAOF, have you seen this one before?
[08:42] <didrocks> RAOF: hey!
[08:56]  * RAOF feels popular
[08:56] <RAOF> didrocks: Yo!
[08:57] <RAOF> pgraner: I've not seen that one before; you should have an apport bug to report though, which will get it retraced. Looks like it's a bug in xf86-video-cirrus.
[09:04] <didrocks> RAOF: you are popular indeed :) (but I'm interested TBH :p) did you see that there is a long awaiting super awesome unity/compiz/all the world upload waiting desperatly for being approved in -proposed
[09:05] <kenvandine> Ursinha, can you add some packages to your gravity report?
[09:05] <RAOF> didrocks: I have not seen that, but I'll get to it when I do my SRU sweep tomorrow morning!
[09:06] <didrocks> RAOF: that is excellent! thanks :)
[09:06] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: FYI ^
[09:06] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, didrocks and RAOF
[09:09] <Laney> mmm SRUs
[09:10] <Laney> a sign to dist-upgrade to raring if there ever was one ;-)
[09:15]  * mlankhorst still on precise!
[09:41] <pgraner> RAOF, apport never triggered :(
[09:42] <pgraner> RAOF, so it left a X crash in /var/crash, I'll file a bug with it
[10:50] <jasoncwarner_> hey pitti , around? Have an apport issue.
[10:51] <pitti> hey jasoncwarner_
[10:52] <jasoncwarner_> hey pitti ! hey, here at the ps sprint and I have seen this a couple of times from various people (I've experienced it myself) pgraner got it as well. basically, apport seems to crash when trying to report a bug. don't have much more information b/c it doesn't seem to create a crash file or anything
[10:53] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: what you can try is to run it again using "ubuntu-bug /var/crash/..." on the file that it previously tried to report
[10:53] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: this should at least give some error on the terminal
[10:53] <jasoncwarner_> pitti: did that and it just ended. no crash file and didn't report it either. didrocks saw it so I'm not crazy ;)
[10:54] <jasoncwarner_> nothing was outputed in the terminal either
[10:54] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: so when did it crash?
[10:54] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: were you trying to report a crash or a bug?
[10:54] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: what did you see exactly?
[10:55] <jasoncwarner_> pitti: the bug was in gwibber daemon. apport window popped up, clicked continue and it did nothing (went away etc)
[10:55] <jasoncwarner_> then tried ubuntu-bug at command line, it just returned (no output on terminal)
[10:55] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: sounds fine to me :)
[10:56] <jasoncwarner_> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/1070286
[10:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1070286 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Gwibber Daemon crash, lens issue" [Undecided,New]
[10:56] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: that's what it should look like in a stable release, where we only send bugs to errors.u.c., not to LP
[10:57] <didrocks> pitti: I think that jasoncwarner_ and pgraner are talking about apport (the ui) itself crashing
[10:57] <pitti> didrocks: yes, but I need to know how; I have a hunch that it's behaving as expected
[10:58] <pitti> what jasoncwarner_ described above is the correct behaviour
[10:58] <didrocks> pgraner told that the apport ui was crashing, then apport triggers again for reading the stacktrace and so on and so on…
[10:58] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'm not sure he got a crash, let me check in a sec
[10:58] <pitti> that sounds like something different then, thuogh
[10:58] <pitti> if you get a .crash for apport itself, please send it to me
[10:59] <jasoncwarner_> pitti: ah, ok...no .crash file so you are probably right
[10:59] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, he has no crash file
[10:59] <didrocks> so different from pgraner's :)
[10:59] <jasoncwarner_> we'll wait for errors.u.c to update and look
[10:59] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, pitti !
[10:59] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: you can check at: firefox http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/`printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid)|sha512sum
[10:59] <pitti> err, missing tail `
[11:00] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: those are the crash reports that you sent
[11:00] <pitti> pgraner: ^
[11:02] <didrocks> pitti: the list seems not to be ordered
[11:03] <pitti> no, it's not (ev knows about this)
[11:03] <pitti> it shuold also show you the package/program
[11:04] <didrocks> pitti: you need to click on them to see that
[11:05] <didrocks> quite not handy when you have tons of them :)
[11:05] <pitti> yes, I know
[11:05] <pitti> ev might know a better way, I don't unfortunately
[11:10] <jasoncwarner_> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1070296
[11:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1070296 in unity (Ubuntu) "Need a way to tell activity is happening in (Gwibber) Lens" [Undecided,New]
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> tmux, WHY U SO SLOW????
[14:17] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson: ? runs fine here?
[15:12]  * Laney is still ridin' high on GNU screen
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, STEAK!
[15:21] <Laney> I was confused
[15:21] <Laney> then I got email
[15:21] <Laney> now I am hungry
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> perhaps i'll need to bring 1 pair of oversize trousers and an oversize t-shirt with me, just for the team dinner
[15:25] <mdeslaur> suicide by team dinner
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> lol @ Sweetshark ;)
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> "Do they also have fish or vegan food for Jason?"
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[15:31] <gema> hi guys, I have having trouble to run konsole from the launcher, is it just me?
[15:31] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: oh, you think that's funny? you should have see me at lunch today...epic meat was eaten
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> heh, i'm jealous now ;)
[15:35] <seb128> kenvandine, didrocks, chrisccoulson, Ursinha, Laney, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, tkamppeter, robru: it's meeting time, if anyone has a topic (none on the wiki so far), also please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-10-23 with things you worked on this week for those who didn't write anything yet
[15:36] <seb128> hey from Copenhagen btw ;-)
[15:36] <cyphermox> seb128: hey
[15:36] <cyphermox> how is it?
[15:36] <cyphermox> cold?
[15:36] <mvo> hey seb128
[15:36] <mterry> seb128, hi
[15:36] <mterry> seb128, that wiki page doesn't even exist yet
[15:36] <seb128> not cold
[15:36] <chrisccoulson> seb128, has anyone turned up in shorts yet? ;)
[15:37] <mterry> So I'm guessing not much to talk about  :)
[15:37] <seb128> mterry, yeah, I just arrived there like 1 hour ago, was offline travelling today
[15:37] <seb128> mterry, right, after release I guess not :p
[15:38]  * cyphermox is having happy fun time going through NM patches to make daily builds work again
[15:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not yet ;-)
[15:38] <chrisccoulson> cyphermox, i feel your pain ;)
[15:38] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson:  ;)
[15:38] <cyphermox> it's not too too bad, but some of the patches look like they need to be brought out to a back alley and shot.
[15:39] <Laney> I refuse to believe we would ever ship a bad patch
[15:40] <cyphermox> ;)
[15:41] <cyphermox> upstreaming with extreme prejudice.
[15:41] <Laney> :>
[15:41] <Laney> are you upstream at NM?
[15:41] <cyphermox> nm and nm-applet
[15:41] <cyphermox> oh wait
[15:41] <cyphermox> I'm not upstream no
[15:42] <cyphermox> but no big issues with sending patches and having them accepted
[16:50] <dupondje> Got a really strange issue with LightDM, sometimes when I boot, I see the console cursor on tty7 (trough the lightdm window). If I then switch to tty1 for example, I still see lightdm visible (only partly)
[16:51] <dupondje> Is this a known bug or?
[19:27] <gema> I have problems starting konsole from unity, I raised bug 107512, please let me know which logs you need
[19:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 107512 in Ubuntu "firefox causes system to return to GDM" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107512
[19:28] <gema> wrong bug number, bug 1070512
[19:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1070512 in unity (Ubuntu) "The launcher in unity won't start konsole" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070512
[20:51] <attente> desrt: ping
[21:05] <jdstrand> desrt: hey, assuming you are going to be at UDS (I thought I remembered you said you would be), I took the liberty of marking your participation essential in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings (based on our conversation from several weeks (months?) ago
[21:05] <jdstrand> desrt: is that a session you can (and want to) attend?
[22:51] <desrt> jdstrand: yes.  of course.
[22:51] <desrt> i'm in copenhagen already, btw
[22:51] <desrt> attente: pong
[22:51] <jdstrand> desrt: great, thanks! :)
[22:52]  * jdstrand heads out
[22:52] <attente> desrt: i'm getting a crash on menubar re-realization :(
[22:53] <desrt> tricky.
[22:53] <desrt> i'm about to go to bed, unfortunately :(
[22:54] <attente> ah, right
[22:54] <attente> it's like some ungodly hour there
[22:54] <desrt> 1
[22:56] <desrt> g'night
[22:59] <attente> g'nite
[23:26] <doomlord> is it possible to make clicking on the taskbar icon show windows of an app from *all* desktops instead of just the current one.. i think its a useful option, you can search by app or by desktop
[23:30] <RAOF> Someone's uploaded an SRU for geary? Really?
[23:36] <jbicha> RAOF: I guess seb128 really cares about it, I wonder if he uses it
[23:37] <RAOF> It's pretty neat, but it's really, really rough.
[23:37] <mlankhorst> not the point :P
[23:43] <RAOF> Vala question: is adding an extra checked exception to a method declaration an ABI break?


[02:42] <pleia2> sf ubuntu hour \o/
[02:42] <pleia2> (actually wrapping up in a few minutesZ)
[04:26] <philipballew> can anyone help with installing a driver into the kernel?
[04:27] <seidos> philipballew: hey how's it going?  i can try
[04:28] <philipballew> well i just bought a sd card and come to find out my sd card doesnt work out of the box but my digging lead me here
[04:28] <philipballew> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=429416&action=edit
[04:28] <philipballew> i think this is what i need
[04:29] <seidos> how funny, my sd card reader doesn't work either
[04:29] <seidos> it used to
[04:29] <seidos> i think the hardware may have failed
[04:30] <philipballew> thats ironic. perhaps someone attacked all linux users computers
[04:30] <seidos> philipballew: you can do lscpi, find your card reader, then search for the module you need.  and, do sudo lshw to check if a driver is already loaded
[04:30] <seidos> philipballew: that's an interesting evaluation
[04:30] <seidos> maybe an sd card reading manufacturer :P
[04:31] <philipballew> they think we need to go to windows!!!!!
[04:31] <seidos> it's not what you know though, it's what you can prove!
[04:32] <seidos> for some reason, i feel like watching a star wars flick.  revenge of the sith is probably my favorite now.
[04:33] <seidos> anyway, good luck getting your card reader working philipballew.  there may not be a decent enough driver to get it going, though
[04:33] <akk> An SD card generally doesn't require a driver -- it's the reader that requires a driver.
[04:33] <akk> What reader are you using?
[04:34] <philipballew> alright. if i cant figure it out ill post here again and someone will figure it out if i dont
[04:35] <seidos> philipballew: may i ask why you need the sd card?  did you get a camera or something?
[04:35] <seidos> maybe someone wants everybody to use usb memory sticks
[04:36] <akk> A separate USB SD card reader is typically just the same as a USB stick ... a generic USB-storate device.
[04:36] <philipballew> i am gonna put by boot loader on it and make my laptop more secure
[04:36] <akk> storage
[04:36] <akk> but if you're trying to read it from a built-in drive on a laptop, sometimes those use screwy drivers.
[04:37] <seidos> perhaps an external usb card reader, my internal usb card reader uses the pci bus i'm pretty sure
[04:37] <seidos> indeed it does
[04:39] <seidos> philipballew: hey, i'm using the same sdhci-pci driver.  do lsmod | grep sdhci-pci to see if it's loaded (though if it shows up in lshw i'm pretty sure it already is)
[04:39] <akk> A lot of the common SD readers built in to laptops use a TI chip that works, but only sort of -- like it can't survive a suspend
[04:39] <akk> and the OS may lock up if you try to suspend with the SD card mounted, or might refuse to suspend.
[04:40] <seidos> ah, well the sd card reader is dead now
[04:40] <seidos> i wasn't able to wake it up last time i had an sd card to play with
[04:42] <philipballew> there cool for music and their small i find
[04:43] <akk> I was trying to use mine for that, but once I found out I couldn't suspend, I moved the music to a USB stick instead.
[04:45] <seidos> usb sticks work for me.  they are rock solid.  and they can be used to boot from.  sd card on pci bus, not so sure
[04:45] <philipballew> the kernal says its loaded. i probably have a different chipset then you
[04:46] <seidos> what does lshw say philipballew ?
[04:47] <MarkDude> akk informative post on your blog. Interesting to see devs remove stuff without giving a new way to do it
[04:47] <seidos> this is mine:                  product: R5C822 SD/SDIO/MMC/MS/MSPro Host Adapter
[04:47] <seidos>                 vendor: Ricoh Co Ltd
[04:47] <seidos> hey MarkDude
[04:47] <akk> MarkDude: They do that pretty often, sadly.
[04:49] <MarkDude> I remember lurnin' all those dpkg ways to fix video- in time for it to be removed
[04:49] <MarkDude> hello seidos
[04:50] <philipballew> dont you mean lspci?
[04:50] <seidos> philipballew: either way i think
[04:50] <seidos> i just happened to have lshw still up
[04:51] <philipballew> 06:00.0 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd Device e822 (rev ff) (prog-if ff)
[04:51] <philipballew> 	!!! Unknown header type 7f
[04:51] <philipballew> 	Kernel driver in use: sdhci-pci
[04:51] <philipballew> 	Kernel modules: sdhci-pci
[04:51] <Eureka> philipballew: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[05:07] <seidos> lol weird, why did Eureka do that
[05:07] <seidos> curioser and curioser
[05:07] <seidos> curious too
[05:07] <philipballew> seemes weird!
[05:07] <seidos> philipballew: i suspect our devices need a specific driver to function properly
[05:08] <seidos> if you figure out how to write one, let me know
[05:08] <philipballew> schools keepin my to busy
[05:08] <philipballew> but its easter break now
[05:08] <philipballew> im about to drive to sac all night
[05:12] <seidos> why are you going to sac?
[05:12] <seidos> political business?
[05:12] <seidos> philipballew: ^
[05:13] <philipballew> i live there
[05:13] <philipballew> kinda
[05:13] <philipballew> well... when im not in school
[05:13] <philipballew> sorry for delay, im packin
[05:14] <seidos> no worries
[17:15] <akk> I wish the loco pages could learn to recognize launchpad, so logging in didn't always get the "you are trying to sign in from an unrecognized service" confirmation screen.
[17:19] <pleia2> it's probably on the launchpad side (which can be difficult to work with), but is there a loco directory bug about it?
[17:19] <iheartubuntu> Epic FAIL - Sergio Ramos of Real Madrid drops the trophy... http://youtu.be/tqU0BK4uxHM
[17:25] <akk> I don't see a bug if I search for launchpad.
[17:26]  * akk files one
[17:30] <akk> filed, 768441
[17:37] <pleia2> :)
[23:39] <kdub> http://partmaps.org/era/unix/guis.txt
[23:48] <akk> kdub: hallelujah brother! :)
[23:48] <kdub> i'm learning all sorts of fun things on the old usenet posts
[23:48] <akk> That way lies madness! (usenet)
[23:49] <kdub> haha, thanks for heading me off at the pass then, akk
[23:49] <akk> wait, did I say madness was bad? :)
[23:49] <sn9> is badness mad?
[23:51] <kdub> heh guess you didnt say that akk. its almost like reading throguh the unix sage's writings of old


[00:00] <Sarvatt> not worried about the sauce at all, i'd end up pulling nouveau drm-radeon-testing and drm-intel-next into it each time probably anyway :D
[00:07] <Sarvatt> oh sweet, good post on the kernel update procedure on the kernel-team list now
[00:19] <RAOF> Hooray!  Nouveau on PPC
[00:20] <Sarvatt> funny we got nouveau there but radeon KMS still isn't enabled (last I looked) :D
[00:20] <Sarvatt> been using radeon KMS on my powerpc machine since jaunty
[01:11] <Sarvatt> ok the blob is *totally* busted for me right now
[01:12] <Sarvatt> plus nv absolutely does not work on nv50+ with novueau KMS in use, I think you're lucky you're on NV40 RAOF :)
[01:12] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Hm.  I thought I'd *tried* that on my nv96.  Maybe I didn't :)
[01:12] <Sarvatt> i get a screen full of lovely colored ansi characters no matter what I do with nv, forgot I had xserver-xorg-video-nouveau purged before
[01:14] <Sarvatt> activating compiz with the blob completely kills the system here, corruption all over the place and sysrq keys dont even work
[01:14] <RAOF> :(
[01:15] <Sarvatt> it kind of worked without compiz, i got black horizontal line corruption all over the notification area, and indicator-applet-session icons
[01:16] <Sarvatt> no idea what killed it, updated with the past 3 days worth of updates and rebooted and the wifes laptop was completely messed up :D nothing in the logs, should have tried the -17 kernel again before i purged it
[01:16] <RAOF> That's not very promising; what card is that?
[01:17] <Sarvatt> 05:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: nVidia Corporation G86 [GeForce 8400M GS] [10de:0427] (rev a1)
[01:17] <Sarvatt> 	Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device [103c:30cf]
[01:17] <Sarvatt> dang, g-p-m is constantly dying and respawning still
[01:19] <RAOF> That's not even a particularly crazy card.
[01:21] <Sarvatt> nope one of the more common laptop GPU's
[01:21] <Sarvatt> was one step up from integrated for a long time :D
[01:21] <johanbr> I have that card and it's working fine with the blob
[01:21] <johanbr> (on lucid)
[01:21] <Sarvatt> how recently did you reboot?
[01:22] <johanbr> yesterday
[01:22] <Sarvatt> i'll try reinstalling it now that I actually got back into the desktop :D
[01:23] <Sarvatt> hmm, should nvidia-current call update-initramfs on removal? imagine that novueau blacklist is still in the initrd
[01:24] <RAOF> Sarvatt: Yes, it should.
[01:28] <Sarvatt> sheesh, 50% battery used in about 30 minutes of text mode and 10 minutes of having a desktop up with nouveau
[01:35] <Sarvatt> nvidia-current won't install :D
[01:35] <Sarvatt> 2010-03-30 20:30:05,913 DEBUG: XorgDriverHandler device sections ({0: ['\tIdentifier\t"Default Device"\n', '\tDriver\t"nvidia"\n']})
[01:35] <RAOF> You're rather at the mercy of the bios' default settings.
[01:36] <RAOF> My nv96 (+ intel) netbook doesn't sap power particularly with nouveau.  Power management support would be nice, though!
[01:36] <Sarvatt> think the nvidia/jockey stuff is messed up with xorg.conf.d
[01:38] <Sarvatt> yepyep just installed xserver-xorg-core (2:1.7.6-2ubuntu1) and can't activate the blob
[01:39] <Sarvatt> err, well it installed but gave the error and said it failed, it did install the /etc/X11/xorg.conf though
[01:58] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: no xorg.conf.d directory getting installed
[01:59] <Sarvatt> had to add my own inputclass stuff to xorg.conf, that was my problem
[02:01] <RAOF> Anyone want to sponsor an upload for G200EH support to x-x-v-mga?
[02:18] <bryceh> RAOF, hit me
[02:18] <RAOF> git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/pkg-xorg/driver/xserver-xorg-video-mga
[02:18] <bryceh> Sarvatt, btw if you can associate lp bug #'s with any of those redhat patches you emailed me, it would be a huge help
[02:19] <bryceh> RAOF, mind doing a debdiff?
[02:19] <RAOF> Not at all.
[02:21] <bryceh> actually nevermind, I got the git tree
[02:21] <RAOF> Well, and there's a debdiff attached to the bug now :)
[02:25] <bryceh> RAOF, upload sponsored
[02:25] <RAOF> bryceh: Thanks!
[02:28] <Sarvatt> ahh ok the evdev rules were in xserver-xorg-input-evdev, no wonder I didnt have any
[02:29] <Sarvatt> should put a BIG warning somewhere not to update packages yet because things are broken :)
[02:29] <Sarvatt> i did a catchall evdev InputClass section in my nvidia xorg.conf to catch all /dev/input/event devices and that totally screws up the blob
[02:39] <bryceh> Sarvatt, the trace on bug #532530 looks extremely familiar to me but I can't place it... do you recognize it?
[02:39] <bryceh> wasn't there a mess of bugs involving libpixman in their backtrace?
[02:42] <Sarvatt> the ones i was looking at were all with the blob continuing rendering after a VT switch and screwing up, thats a different one.. wish that person would attach the real logs instead of a tarball of /var/log/
[02:43] <bryceh> yeah I know
[03:01] <Sarvatt> ahh crap - <tjaalton> [17:39:04] -looks like it'll take hours before the xserver is published on the main archs, so I'll upload the drivers in the morning..
[03:02] <Sarvatt> well I'm passing around this link for people that already upgraded and need to reboot.. http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xorg.conf.d/
[03:03] <bryceh> Sarvatt, maybe mail that to ubuntu-devel@
[03:41] <Sarvatt> bryceh: sorry I was swamped there trying to fix the wifes machine, you know how it goes I'm sure :D responding to your patch mail now
[03:46] <bryceh> heh yep
[03:46] <bryceh> meanwhile I've gotten the -ati .192 merge done
[03:47] <bryceh> several nice fixes in it
[03:47] <bryceh> one thing I'm unsure about though - it has a conf from debian to enable kms, but not sure if that's going to interfere with our kms enablement
[03:48] <bryceh> guessing it won't
[03:48] <Sarvatt> that EXA backport was totally just me saying I'm doing it in xorg-edgers
[03:49] <Sarvatt> no reason to install that, just revert http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/driver/xserver-xorg-video-ati.git;a=commit;h=f62daf71011a40aa37802b6abd726b731985174b
[03:52] <bryceh> rats I *just* uploaded it
[03:54] <bryceh> well, I don't think it's going to hurt anything
[04:45] <Sarvatt> bryceh: can you release http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/driver/xserver-xorg-input-evdev.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu and http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/driver/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu ?
[04:46] <Sarvatt> xserver is borked at the moment, the old udev rules aren't working for me at least and theres no xorg.conf.d snippets to load the drivers without those
[05:11] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: whaat? things busted?
[05:14] <tjaalton> sigh, thought I tested that
[05:14] <tjaalton> anyway, evdev & synaptics uploaded
[05:15] <Sarvatt> yeah things were totally busted on upgrade and reboot here, maybe because I had a nvidia xorg.conf already?
[05:15] <Sarvatt> sweet! thanks tjaalton
[05:15] <tjaalton> hmm, dunno.. maybe
[05:16] <tjaalton> right, 5-7h queue
[05:17] <tjaalton> should've just uploaded them earlier
[05:32] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: yeah we dont have snippets loading the quirks for those tags, those mini 10v's need quirking
[05:32] <Sarvatt> doh nevermind yes you did that already!
[05:32] <tjaalton> untested, but I think they should work..
[05:34] <Sarvatt> sounds like it worked for him at least! would be nice to figure out why it broke so badly here
[05:35] <tjaalton> hmm, and seems to work here too
[05:37] <tjaalton> yeah :)
[05:37] <tjaalton> *phew*
[05:40] <Sarvatt> working here on 2 of my other machines too, just the laptop with the blob had major trouble
[05:41] <tjaalton> got a log?
[05:42] <Sarvatt> i stupidly overwrote the one i was trying to save from the first failed boot
[05:42] <tjaalton> well you should be able to reproduce it by moving xorg.conf.d away?
[05:47] <Sarvatt> you're right, will do that in the morning, wifes using that laptop now
[05:48] <tjaalton> and it failed to start?
[05:48] <tjaalton> the symptom should be that there was no mouse/kbd
[05:50] <Sarvatt> no mouse/keyboard yeah
[05:51] <tjaalton> alright then
[05:51] <tjaalton> well, no-one uses the blob anyway.. oh, wait
[05:51] <tjaalton> :)
[05:53] <Sarvatt> if i could just force nouveau to use the lowest performance state always i'd never look back :)
[06:13] <Sarvatt> whoops - make[3]: *** No rule to make target `wcmTilt2Rotation.lo', needed by `wacom_drv.la'.  Stop
[06:14] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: you need to run autoreconf firtst
[06:14] <tjaalton> first
[06:23] <Sarvatt> yeah i remember you having that problem the other day and i still forgot :D
[06:24] <tjaalton> the package is a mess..
[06:25] <tjaalton> too bad ron won't like the idea of running autoreconf on build
[06:25] <tjaalton> *doesn't
[06:25] <tjaalton> thinking about forking it properly, but maybe not :)
[06:39] <Sarvatt> lp:ubuntu/xf86-input-wacom maybe? :)
[06:40] <Sarvatt> (since he doesn't want it in pkg-xorg?)
[07:05] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: nah, pkg-xorg is fine, even if he'd maintain it in his own repo
[10:23] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: edgers needs to merge the xorg-server changes, or people using the edgers version will end up with no kbd/mouse :)
[10:26] <tjaalton> asac: what's up with the armel buildd's? every build that generates a dbgsym-package fails
[10:33] <tjaalton> asac: and for instance xorg-server failed to build because of that
[10:35] <tjaalton> asac: hmm, it might be ok now..
[10:35] <tjaalton> asac: right, false alarm.. it's built now :)
[10:52] <tjaalton> there, evtouch and joystick uploaded
[10:53] <tjaalton> hum, joystick rejected, need to fakesync it
[10:55] <tjaalton> there
[15:09] <tseliot> Sarvatt: would you like to test my nvidia-settings with -173?
[15:42] <asac> tjaalton: our builders are unfortunately not stable ... retrying a few times helps often
[15:42] <asac> we are in process of adding new builders .... so there is hope
[15:53] <tseliot> jcristau: do you know if/where XSERVER_LIBPCIACCESS is defined in xserver 1.7.x?
[15:53] <tjaalton> asac: oh ok. i was just worried that the xserver didn't build the first time, but then noticed that it was retried and succeeded
[15:53]  * jcristau hands grep to tseliot
[15:54] <tseliot> jcristau: I did that already
[15:54] <jcristau> then you have your answer
[15:55] <tseliot> ok, it's not defined then
[15:55] <jcristau> wrong.
[15:57] <tseliot> libpciaccess-dev is installed here
[15:58] <tseliot> and here it says that it should be defined in xorg-server.h: http://www.x.org/wiki/PciReworkHowto
[15:59] <jcristau> s/should be/is/
[16:00] <tseliot> I don't have any xorg-server.h here
[16:01] <tseliot> never mind, I was convinced that xserver-xorg-dev was already installed
[16:52] <tedg> Hey guys.  We're trying to bind to Super+Esc but can't seem to.
[16:52] <tedg> I can't find an application doing that.
[16:52] <tedg> Is that a key combo that X is grabbing?
[16:53] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: http://pastebin.com/nxnnfP4p -- should we just be matching event devices in synaptics too?
[16:56] <Sarvatt> btw tseliot did you see the problem I had last night trying to activate the blob? Jockey says it fails to activate (even though it activates fine) if I try to activate it - 2010-03-30 20:30:05,913 DEBUG: XorgDriverHandler device sections ({0: ['\tIdentifier\t"Default Device"\n', '\tDriver\t"nvidia"\n']})
[16:57] <tseliot> Sarvatt: can I see the full log and your xorg.conf, please?
[16:57] <Sarvatt> not sure if you know whats up with that, just started since the xorg.conf.d xserver
[16:58] <Sarvatt> let me see if my wife left that machine on for me to ssh into, one sec
[16:59] <Sarvatt> there was no xorg.conf at the time, it still created one though but it said the process failed
[17:00] <Sarvatt> http://pastebin.com/AJiKWr08
[17:02] <tseliot> Sarvatt: it doesn't say that it failed (at least in the log)
[17:06] <Sarvatt> i'll redo it later and get you a screenshot of the gui dialog
[17:06] <Sarvatt> the gui said it failed even though it worked
[17:07] <tseliot> ok
[17:54] <Sarvatt> hmm, evdev is claiming the touchpad for a lot of people without the synaptics upgrade
[17:58] <Sarvatt> man, the bug number just does not want to stay under 300 - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-lucid.svg
[18:19] <bryceh> Sarvatt, heh
[18:20] <bryceh> wow, that's sad, our 'workqueue' stats are just barely below that...  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-lucid-workqueue.svg
[18:21] <bryceh> that means almost all the lucid bugs are blocked on us needing to do something with them
[18:48] <rickspencer3> Sarvatt, fyi ... my quirks kicked in as you said
[18:48] <rickspencer3> (after updating today)
[18:48] <rickspencer3> thanks
[18:53] <Sarvatt> no worries, tjaalton is the one that did all the work porting the quirks over and deserves the thanks :) glad it worked out though, thanks for the update about it
[19:53] <DBO> is the issue where closing a clutter app == x crash known?
[20:33] <Sarvatt> DBO: yep https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/550218
[21:10] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: Hey :) Do you remember my problem before? :P That video output problem ... I wonder it still doesnt work after updated several possible candidates recently and I wonder, do you know which packages that is required for video output in Kaffeine and Dragonplayer for instance? Or if you know any site I can check on?
[21:34] <Sarvatt> Oxymoron: I'd suggest starting by googling xine XvShmPutImage nvidia :)
[21:35] <Sarvatt> your X error was a BadMatch in the Xvideo extension in XvShmPutImage
[21:36] <Sarvatt> Oxymoron: have you tried fiddling with the nvidia-settings control panel Xv options?
[21:42] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: yeah not checking for /dev/input/event* is an oversight, I'll fix it tomorrow
[21:42] <Sarvatt> Oxymoron: try seeing if whatever player you're using has a --debug option and run it from a terminal so you can get more info on whats happening
[21:48] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: Smart ideas, thanks man :) And well I havent fiddling around with nvidia-settings
[22:12] <bjsnider> i don't think that would really do it, but it's worth a shot
[22:12] <bjsnider> what would really help is a new graphics card
[22:28] <Oxymoron> bjsnider: You and youre new graphics card talk ...
[22:28] <Oxymoron> My Graphic card is perfectly fine ;)
[22:30] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: Hmm interesting output from dragon in command konsole: ""
[22:30] <Oxymoron> InotifyFileSystemWatcherEngine::addPaths: inotify_add_watch failed: Filen eller katalogen finns inte
[22:30] <Oxymoron> QFileSystemWatcher: failed to add paths: /home/oxymoron/.config/ibus/bus
[22:30] <Oxymoron> Bus::open: Can not get ibus-daemon's address.
[22:30] <Oxymoron> IBusInputContext::createInputContext: no connection to ibus-daemon
[22:41] <Sarvatt> Oxymoron: no output giving details on what output method is being used and such? all that stuff isnt related
[22:41] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: How do I retrieve that kind of info then?
[22:44] <Sarvatt> you're asking someone who doesn't use KDE.. :)
[22:47] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: Alright, I will ask someone who does :)
[23:08] <Sarvatt> Oxymoron: run the player with --help, it'll give you a list of extra options you can use..
[23:10] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: Yes, but I cant find any debug option parameter in there and not in --help-kde or --help-qt either
[23:12] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: Do you know what ibus is btw?
[23:12] <bryceh> merged 2.9.1-3 plus cherrypicks
[23:12] <bryceh> (for -intel)
[23:13] <Sarvatt> do you really not have a multimedia configuration option in the KDE system menus somewhere?
[23:22] <RAOF> Sarvatt, Oxymoron: There certainly is a multimedia configuration option; Look for “Phonon” somewhere .
[23:25] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: No, I tried remove ~/.kde before and problem still persist ... It must be something else.
[23:26] <Oxymoron> RAOF: Look for Phonon somewhere? :P More specific please ... Phonon settings in systemsettings isnt anything, but maybe some phonon settings somewhere else though'
[23:27] <RAOF> Oxymoron: Phonon settings in systemsettings should be where you're looking.  I'm sure there's *something* there :)
[23:29] <RAOF> Look for xine engine options.
[23:31] <RAOF> Sarvatt: That intel fix has hit lucid-kernel git!  Yay!
[23:32] <Oxymoron> RAOF: You cant setup anything there, you can only change between gstreamer and xine, no settings at all ...
[23:33] <RAOF> There's *definitely* some form of options around in that sort of area; I remember being able to change the deinterlacer used for DVD content, at least...
[23:34] <Sarvatt> RAOF: yeah i closed a ton of bugs about it already since the -19 kernel with it has already been uploaded
[23:35] <Oxymoron> RAOF: Yeah, but those options are also removed in latest kde ... so cant even change that and those settings isnt worth anything anyway so.
[23:40] <Oxymoron> Sarvatt: I ll be damn, I installed ibus restarted xserver and then it worked :D
[23:40] <Sarvatt> tell the KDE people that :)
[23:41] <Oxymoron> #kde-devel I guess
[23:54] <ernstp> my plymouth boot is still flickering a lot
[23:55] <ernstp> is everyone elses doing that also?
[23:59] <Sarvatt> ernstp: guessing you have a mobilie x1300-x1600 ati gpu? :)


[01:22] <noogenesis> so the best argument for tabs is that it allows for this:  lets say everyone on a project agrees on the basic indentation/style/formatting but disagrees only on how many spaces each indentation level should be
[01:22] <noogenesis> in theory with tabs its easier to adjust your display of the code
[01:23] <rick_h_> noogenesis: == derekv?
[01:25] <noogenesis> yea...
[01:25] <noogenesis> one sec
[01:26] <derekv> weird
[01:26] <derekv> somewhere I have that set as a fallback nick
[01:28] <derekv> I guess I don't care that deeply about how much its indented.  8 would be way to much
[01:28] <derekv> I think just about everyone uses 4 anyways... can't remember having worked with 2
[01:29] <rick_h_> two is popular in ruby, coffeescript/js (ruby-ists) and html
[01:31] <derekv> I'm not totally groking the arguments against tabs, but I really don't care ... I just want to configure my editor some way and save that in my dotfiles
[01:31] <derekv> and go back to not thinking about it.
[01:32] <derekv> But I don't want to be writing files that look like ass when other people open them.
[01:32] <derekv> It looks like more people fall in the spaces camp
[01:33] <derekv> here's the thing, i'll use emacs when I can but i'm often forced to use eclipse or xcode
[01:33] <derekv> and I work with other who don't use the same editor, they will use eclipse or xcode or notepad++ or something,
[01:34] <rick_h_> so the space thing comes down to looking right everywhere
[01:34] <rick_h_> pastebin, other editors, terminal
[01:34] <derekv> and not everyone is really aware of formatting issue ie not really aware of how their own editor works
[01:34] <rick_h_> if I use 4 spaces, it'll always be 4 space
[01:34] <derekv> Yea
[01:34] <rick_h_> tabs just vary all over the place
[01:34] <rick_h_> and then you get into the mixed tabs/spaces in files and have to deal with that
[01:34] <rick_h_> in vim I can set it up (and most editors) to just use spaces, replace tabs with spaces, etc
[01:34] <rick_h_> and never notice it again
[01:35] <rick_h_> I hit the tab key, and all the editors enter 4 spaces for it, it's become the standard that tabs might have been
[01:35] <derekv> yea it isn't default though
[01:35] <derekv> eclipse is horrible
[01:35] <derekv> and so is xcode
[01:35] <derekv> the default settings just are all over the place
[01:36] <rick_h_> yea
[01:36] <rick_h_> fortunately I dont' tend to mess with devs using default things so I'm lucky that way
[01:36] <rick_h_> and things like pylint/etc will get angry if you break things
[01:36] <derekv> yea
[01:36] <rick_h_> even python will get fussy if you mix tabs/spaces in a file so I don't tend to notice it muych
[01:37] <derekv> So either I'm just going to find some settings that don't upset anyone for say xcode and emacs that don't cause whitespace wars
[01:38] <derekv> eg ideally a file formatted in one, opened in the other and processed with a "correct formatting" command should have no changes
[01:38] <derekv> it'll be spaces
[01:40] <derekv> or just use this http://uncrustify.sourceforge.net/
[01:46] <rick_h_> derekv: you're not in #bookie, but looking for opinions from users on favicon support: http://uploads.mitechie.com/favicon_sample.png
[01:51] <rick_h_> ugh, this prod db migration thing is going to take forever.
[02:14] <jrwren> AND, tabs aren't really eaiser. a good editor makes it easy either way.  << and >> in vim for example.
[02:29] <derekv> ugh the thing is I whipped up this thing this week and didn't do much to the default eclipse config
[02:30] <derekv> its not like really bad, but suddenly i'm annoyed with myself for not fixing that
[02:30] <derekv> going over 80 chars etc
[02:33]  * derekv looks
[02:33] <derekv> great it mixes tabs and spaces
[02:33] <derekv> maybe I should fix this
[02:33] <derekv> trying to decide which is worse
[02:39] <derekv> its worse to leave it I think
[02:39] <derekv> i found some of their code and its clean
[02:55] <jrwren> is it python? python really does not like mixed spaces and tabs
[02:58] <derekv> no no
[02:58] <derekv> java
[02:58] <derekv> its what eclipse does out of the box
[03:00] <derekv> you know how they say you should be in touch with the people who actually use your software
[03:01] <derekv> you can imagine the sorts of things that'd happen if the developers had no clue about the actual needs or wants of the people who were using the software, no understanding of the problem domain etc
[03:01] <derekv> eclipse strikes me as that sort of software
[03:01] <derekv> which makes it a sort of paradox
[10:42] <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/ayBZIxIx5wpKRWzrQQk4/ <- They're definitely getting more creative
[10:43] <snap-l> half-tempted to reply: "Oh yes, which of my vast number of industrial design posts caught your fancy?"
[10:52] <snap-l> Funny enough, mug.org got the same thing
[10:53] <snap-l> must be my strong undercurrent of industrial design hidden in my otherwise otherwise inane postings about life as a FLOSSie
[11:47] <rick_h_> ok, so a little bit funny http://goo.gl/OWY1B
[11:55] <shakes808> Morning
[11:58] <rick_h_> party
[12:02] <brousch> on
[12:59] <brousch> snap-l: How the heck did you get first comment on that Maddog post?
[12:59] <rick_h_> snap-l: is crazy like that
[13:04] <snap-l> That wasn't first comment
[13:04] <snap-l> it's in descending order.
[13:06] <brousch> ah
[13:12] <jrwren> lol
[13:12] <jrwren> maddog Hall? what is he talking about?
[13:14] <brousch> http://www.linux-magazine.com/content/view/full/55727
[13:24] <rick_h_> widox: this mouse is kind of crazy.
[13:25] <rick_h_> the scrolling haptic is cool, but still funny because it's not a straight pad like it looks like in the pic online
[13:30] <rick_h_> snap-l: you're killing the bmark.us favicon flow :P get those sites to update!
[13:32] <widox> rick_h_: oh, because it has a slight curve to it?
[13:32] <rick_h_> no, it's like two split rectangles with a line in the middle that's like a visible sensor
[13:32] <rick_h_> so you slide over this little slit in the middle and it detects it as 'scrolling'
[13:32] <rick_h_> and middle click is to dbl click on that sensor
[13:41] <widox> ah
[13:50] <snap-l> rick_h_: Which sites?
[13:50] <rick_h_> snap-l: all the music ones
[13:50] <snap-l> Hah, bandcamp? :)
[13:50] <rick_h_> check out the front page right now
[13:51] <snap-l> Oh, nice.
[13:51] <rick_h_> the first 4, and then the next 14 or so after that
[13:51] <snap-l> sorry, mate.
[13:51] <snap-l> bandcamp has a favicon, though
[13:52] <rick_h_> hmm, looking
[13:52] <rick_h_> ah, but skagos.bandcamp doesn't
[13:52] <snap-l> I'm seeing one
[13:52] <rick_h_> bah, http://s2.googleusercontent.com/s2/favicons?domain=bandcamp.com
[13:53] <rick_h_> google doesn't know about it
[13:53] <snap-l>     <link rel="shortcut icon" href="http://f0.bcbits.com/z/36/20/3620060950-1.jpg">
[13:53] <rick_h_> http://bandcamp.com/favicon.ico
[13:54] <rick_h_> hmm, wonder why they have rel=shortcut
[13:55] <snap-l> Probably simpler than trying to stuff everyone's favicon into some rewrite rules.
[13:55] <rick_h_> no, I get the icon bit, but not sure what shortcut is for
[13:55] <rick_h_> and not sure you can have multiple values for rel
[13:56] <snap-l> I'm seeing the shortcut being rendered as a favicon under Chrome
[13:56] <snap-l> Maybe that could be a fallback rendering path?
[13:56] <rick_h_> not sure, looking.
[13:57] <rick_h_> in the offical favicon the rel='icon' is supported, but not seeing what supports rel='shortcut' and wonder if that why it fails
[13:57] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon#Standardisation
[13:58] <snap-l> The popular rel="shortcut icon" theoretically identifies two relations, shortcut and icon, but shortcut is not registered and is redundant. In 2011 the HTML living standard[15] specified that for historical reasons shortcut is allowed immediately before icon;[16] however shortcut does not itself have a meaning.
[14:09] <jrwren> snap-l: great comment.
[14:12] <snap-l> jrwren: Thank you.
[14:37] <snap-l> I love the "it's time for the Linux Desktop" mindset now that MIcrosoft is making it's own tablet.
[14:38] <snap-l> It's as if there will be a Holy-Ghost revival of the OEMs as they SEE THE LIGHT!
[14:39] <snap-l> And not the usual OEM machinations of "it must be a day ending in Y when Microsoft moves the goalposts"
[14:39] <snap-l> That said, I think it'll be interesting times ahead if one of the majors threatens Linux.
[14:40] <snap-l> but I'm not holding my breath
[14:42] <krondor> snap-l:  well MS making a tablet I don't think is the big kick to the OEMs.  I'm actually thinking Apple eating MS lunch kind of opens the floodgate for Linux to an extent
[14:43] <krondor> people willing to break that lock in maybe.. but yeah next years should be interesting anyway.  Using Win8 metroUI feels bad to me.
[14:44] <krondor> I'm hardly the target market though, so there's that
[14:44] <snap-l> Just seems like we're constantly looking something to grab onto in order to open the clamshell lock-in of the desktop
[14:56] <jrwren> snap-l: actually, i was thinking about canonical's position with respect to 'tablet' why doesn't canonical enter the hardware market?
[14:57] <brousch> Can I install KDE on the Unity Tablet?
[15:03] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm not sure
[15:03] <snap-l> Maybe because they don't have the hardware partners lined up yet
[15:04] <snap-l> or maybe that's part of the plan
[15:04] <snap-l> Frankly, I'd be wary of releasing hardware. Hardware is expensive, and depreciates rapidly.
[15:09] <jrwren> yes, but it also makes $
[15:09] <jrwren> but then that speaks to canonical's goals as a corporation. They surely must be more than just bug#1
[15:10] <jrwren> hrm... how does upstart relate to collaboration?  http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/overview
[15:21] <jrwren> pretty simple answer afaict, its not a place where canonical wants to play.
[15:22] <rick_h_> the landscape isn't exactly full of success there
[15:22] <rick_h_> and there's work there with the TV/android that shows I think canonical is interested in working with existing hardware partners
[15:24] <jrwren> paramiko or conch?
[15:24] <rick_h_> paramiko has been superceeded (maybe it's back) from the fabric guys into just 'ssh'
[15:25] <rick_h_> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ssh/1.7.14
[15:25] <rick_h_> he's basically got an approved paramiko fork used in fabric
[15:25] <rick_h_> and is working on getting full permissions to paramiko since the original dev/etc are done with it
[15:26] <jrwren> thanks.
[15:27] <snap-l> There's still releases of paramiko
[15:27] <snap-l> 2012-05-17
[15:27] <rick_h_> yea, but I think they've comed from patches from the fabric team
[15:28] <rick_h_> not 100% sure though
[15:28] <jrwren> https://github.com/bitprophet/ssh/
[15:28] <rick_h_> yea, bitprophet is the head fabric guy and was working around/fixing a lot of paramiko bugs
[15:29] <snap-l> Yeah, the paramiko page is pretty lagged
[15:29] <rick_h_> https://github.com/robey/paramiko/
[15:29] <rick_h_> lol, linked from the front page of the paramiko site
[15:29] <snap-l> Yeah, sar that
[15:30] <jrwren> i updated http://wiki.python.org/moin/SecureShell to reflect it :)
[15:30] <rick_h_> https://github.com/paramiko/paramiko
[15:30] <rick_h_> see the last commit :)
[15:30] <rick_h_> https://github.com/bitprophet/ssh/commits/master
[15:30] <rick_h_> anyway, that's the story these days. It's a mess and hopefully the two will merge back into one and rule the world
[15:31] <jrwren> doesn't seem too bad to me.
[15:31] <rick_h_> well, it's been forever that paramiko was the game in town, and with bitprophet committing to both, life would be simpler if there was just one package to refer to
[15:33] <snap-l> That's not pythonic. ;)
[15:33] <snap-l> You have to have at least two compelling ways to do anything
[15:49] <jrwren> i like diversity and choice. i love more than one way to do something.
[15:50] <jrwren> i shall now refer to these differences between pragmatism and pythonicism as the idiocy of the pythonic or just pythonidiot
[16:02] <jrwren> bsides videos are up https://www.youtube.com/user/BSidesDetroit
[16:13] <krondor> jrwren: ++ thanks, I wanted to go to that but wasn't able
[16:14] <rick_h_> when was this? totally missed it happened
[16:16] <krondor> Weekend of June 1st at the RenCen I believe, twas free to I think
[16:16] <rick_h_> hmm, just missed it I guess
[17:01] <snap-l> ttp://arstechnica.com/security/2012/06/securid-crypto-attack-steals-keys/
[17:01] <snap-l> add appropriate h in there
[17:01] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/06/securid-crypto-attack-steals-keys/
[17:32] <krondor> it's been a rough ride for RSA lately.  Other tokens are impacted too, but it doesn't look like yubikey is impacted w/o pkcs#11
[18:06] <snap-l> Nice. Moved from And Justice For All to to Frizzle Fry.
[18:06] <snap-l> earlier today it was Limbomaniacs
[18:06] <snap-l> Apparently the Squeezebox wants to remind me of college.
[18:07] <snap-l> (and an elbow-to-the-throat to the first person who says "those were released when I was in middle school / elementary school / before I was born")
[18:08] <brousch> How about, "I have no idea who that is?"
[18:08] <snap-l> brousch: Metallica: ...And Justice For All
[18:08] <snap-l> brousch: Primus: Frizzle Fry (first studio album)
[18:08] <brousch> Yeah, onbviously I meant the other ones
[18:09] <brousch> Ah, Primus
[18:09] <snap-l> brousch: Limbomaniacs: Butt Funkin'
[18:09] <brousch> If I had my druthers, I'd screw a chimpanzee
[18:09] <snap-l> (Features Brain, later the drummer from Primus during the Brown era)
[18:10] <snap-l> songs / videos NSFW
[18:10] <snap-l> but one of my favorite out-of-print albums
[18:10] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guitarists/Buckethead_task_force/Limbomaniacs
[18:11] <snap-l> Bah, I meant Stinky Grooves.
[19:44] <krondor> snap-l: alice cooper fan?
[19:50] <snap-l> krondor: Not a huge fan. I have a greatest hits album
[19:50] <snap-l> just haven't gotten around to getting the rest.
[19:50] <snap-l> Have tons of respect, though
[19:50] <krondor> I watched an insane movie recently with a rant by a girl on how Alice Cooper is responsible for all metal including Punk, was kind of neat.
[19:50] <snap-l> That's an interesting take on it. :)
[19:51] <krondor> Movie was called God Bless America (indie film) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1912398/
[19:51] <snap-l> Will add to Netflix
[19:52] <snap-l> I'd probably put Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin in that category, but Alice Cooper definitely shaped the horror aspects of metal
[19:52] <snap-l> Rob Zombie has admitted as much
[19:54] <snap-l> Alice's interview on Metal: A headbanger's journey is pure gold
[19:54] <krondor> hmm, I'll have to look that up.  I haven't listened to much Alice Cooper but I was thinking maybe I should
[19:55] <snap-l> He's a Detroit native, and was on Frank Zappa's label fro a time
[19:57] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Cooper#1960s
[19:58] <krondor> yeah I knew he was from here, I actually saw him when I was eating lunch in Royal Oak once walking around with Gene Simmons.  That was kind of odd.
[19:58] <krondor> I have to say I don't particularly like Gene Simmons (not knowing him but seeing him on interviews and junk)
[20:00] <snap-l> his public persona is that of a smug jackass, but I think underneath it is someone who genuinely would take a bullet for people.
[20:00] <snap-l> That said, I also think if given an alternative, he'd shove other folks under a bus.
[21:36] <jrwren> omg, loving my job today. i used this as a reference to write 15 lines of code to implement scp on top of 'ssh' https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jbardin-deactivatedaccount/paramiko/paramiko_scp/view/head:/paramiko/scp.py
[21:36] <jrwren> that was fun
[22:58] <rick_h_> jrwren: :) awesome


[05:23] <rrittenhouse> Are there any issues with using the Atheros 5k driver with my AR242x on my aspire one?
[05:23] <rrittenhouse> I was using wireless for 2 days and all of a sudden it lost all networks under the network manager applet but they came back and now I can
[05:24] <rrittenhouse> Can't connect, sorry
[05:24] <rrittenhouse> It will pop up the authentication dialog and if I hit show password it has a long string of random letters/numbers and not my key
[06:38] <rrittenhouse> nm driver update today killed ath5k and i had to shut down completel


[05:01] <Ubugtu> New bug: #34776 in mplayer "mplayer with xv crashes system on specific file" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/34776
[08:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #70382 in xli (universe) "x11-common update breaks because of xli files in /usr/X11R6/bin (dup-of: 67996)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70382
[08:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #71915 in update-manager "subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 (dup-of: 67996)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/71915
[03:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #52192 in Ubuntu "Kubuntu 6.10 max sound volume is too low compared to 5.10 (dup-of: 49824)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/52192
[03:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83571 in xorg (main) "[Feisty]  Middle click fails with no action" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83571
[08:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #53216 in linux-source-2.6.15 (restricted) "BUG() report in getnstimeofday: soft lockup" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53216


[01:14] <tmkt> Helllo Hello
[01:29] <tmkt> hey hey, anyone having any problems with their Videos(not recordings) only playing back at dolby 2.0 with Myth 0.23?
[01:29] <tmkt> Seems the pass through options are gone in the General Settings
[02:24] <olskolirc> i have the control center and the mythtv-setup who want to help me set up my server?  says something about a 4 digit number somewhere that I have to put in the sql box on the control center help please?
[02:24] <olskolirc> do I need an sql server?  I don't want anyone to connect to my mythtv
[03:03] <superm1> olskolirc, you using lucid?
[03:04] <superm1> i suppose that box might be confusing to someone new how it is
[11:57] <gbee> whenever I press the eject button on a DVD-Rom drive I get an error dialog (gnome) telling me it failed, 'eject' from a shell works, any idea how I disable gnomes' media handler so that the eject button works again?
[12:38] <gbee> nevermind, decided to upgrade the distro anyway which may fix it
[14:02] <Jay2k1> !help
[14:02] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[14:04] <tmkt> Another nice fix would me to add m4v as a video extension for jamu
[14:13] <Jay2k1> fyi: the Zinn help entry contains a broken link at FAQ, is mythbuntu.org/FAQ, should be mythbuntu.org/wiki/faq
[14:13] <Zinn> Hi Jay2k1, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[15:48] <cr3> I just noticed apt-setup/cdrom/failed popping up today, known problem?
[15:48] <cr3> as part of the installation for the latest lucid image
[15:48] <cr3> at 76% of the installation
[15:50] <cr3> this problem seems to apply across other flavours as well, strange
[16:02] <mrand> thanks Jay2k1.
[16:02] <mrand> @delete faq
[16:06] <superm1> cr3, i noticed that the other day too, but i think it's only if you are installing from !cdrom
[16:06] <superm1> eg usb, network, etcs
[16:06] <superm1> cr3, did you see if today's logic to skip the last page worked for you?
[16:06] <superm1> i added something in that should skip it in --automatic mode
[16:07] <Jay2k1> so, the auto builds thing lets me upgrade from the mythtv 0.22 pre-release that came with mythbuntu 9.10 karmic to 0.22-fixes? because I don't want trunk updates
[16:07] <superm1> Jay2k1, sure they well
[16:07] <superm1> it should explain it all on the faq section on the auto-builds link
[16:07] <Jay2k1> well, it was a bit confusing for me, sure I've read that page
[16:08] <Jay2k1> but then again, I had a look at the sources.list afterwards, and saw something with "trunk" in it
[16:08] <superm1> well we should certainly clarify that text then on that page
[16:08] <superm1> it says trunk-0.22 probably
[16:09] <Jay2k1> yes that
[16:09] <superm1> its because launchpad doesn't allow renaming PPAs
[16:09] <superm1> its only 0.22 builds on that PPA
[16:09] <Jay2k1> couldnt look it up because the partition is unmounted, doing a partimage now before apt-get upgrade just to be sure
[16:09] <cr3> superm1: I've seen some systems with mythbuntu automatically installed, so it seems to have worked
[16:09] <superm1> cr3, awesome :)
[16:09] <Jay2k1> ah ok that explains
[16:10] <cr3> superm1: do you have a bug open for that fix? I could take the opportunity to attach my preseed to that bug which I totally forgot to do last week
[16:10] <superm1> cr3, i just fixed it without a bug report
[16:10] <cr3> superm1: ok, I'll open a quick bug report and you can immediately mark it as fix released :)
[16:11] <superm1> so just file a new bug for that against mythbuntu-live-autostart and attach
[16:11] <superm1> i'll probably install it to /usr/share/doc/mythbuntu-live-autostart/examples or something, need to figure out the right place
[16:12] <cr3> superm1: I've been talking with mathiaz, from the server team, about finding a way to formalize where preseeds could be located across ubuntu flavours
[16:12] <cr3> superm1: it doesn't seem like there's an obvious solution, especially if we potentially consider templating in the mix
[16:12] <cr3> maybe a good topic of conversation/debate for uds
[16:13] <Jay2k1> and - now that I'm here anyway - let me express my appreciation for all your people's work on this project
[16:13] <superm1> cr3, well the primary purpose would be for people to do daily testing or such right?  so maybe it's just best to pick a path and then have testdrive know to try to load from that path
[16:13] <superm1> Jay2k1, thanks!
[16:14] <superm1> cr3, i'm not sure i'm coming yet.  i've got new management, and on the new team i'm not sure we have the budget to send me to brussels, so we'll see
[16:15] <cr3> superm1: what if we sponsored you? could you spare the week?
[16:16] <superm1> cr3, probably
[16:16] <cr3> superm1: by the way, might it be possible that the --automatic fix you applied skips the late_command/success part of the installation?
[16:16] <cr3> superm1: I'll propose your name to my manager then
[16:17] <superm1> cr3, cool thanks.  i'll discuss it with my manager next week and see what he says about this quarters budget too
[16:17] <superm1> i doubt that fix would cause it to skip the late_command
[16:17] <superm1> did it work with earlier images?
[16:19] <cr3> superm1: I don't remember unfortunately, I just noticed that for some of the systems I noticed with mythbuntu magically installed, the late command stuff did not seem to have run like installing ssh for example.
[16:19] <cr3> it is possible that earlier parts of the late command failed, which could've prevented the remaining commands to run, haven't had time to investigate yet
[16:19] <superm1> cr3, do you have both a success and fail late command defined?
[16:20] <superm1> it's a different preseed than you use for alternates, which only supports a single late command
[16:20] <superm1> you might consider also that there are ways to run package installs "during" the install provided the package is available on the pool you are using during install via an ubiquity plugin
[16:21] <superm1> for 10.04 work stuff that's what we're gonna start doing for our factory installs
[16:22] <superm1> oh, but considering you mentioned it was supposed to install ssh, remember ssh is normally installed by default on mythbuntu, and it is controlled by an additional preseed
[16:22] <cr3> superm1: I couldn't find mythbuntu-live-autostart, so I reported bug #533875 with my preseed against the mythbuntu project
[16:22] <Zinn> Bug 533875 in mythbuntu "Mythbuntu prompting to configure backend during installation cannot be automated" [Undecided, New] http://www.launchpad.net/bugs/533875
[16:22] <superm1> cool, works for me
[16:23] <superm1> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dell-team/dell-recovery/trunk/annotate/head:/ubiquity/dell-bootstrap.py
[16:23] <Zinn> [bazaar.launchpad.net] ~dell-team/dell-recovery/trunk : contents of ubiquity/dell-bootstrap.py at revision 244
[16:23] <superm1> there's a lot of logic there you don't need to worry about, but take a look at the "Install" class
[16:23] <superm1> by defining something like that you're able to mark additional packages during install as the plugin is processed
[16:24] <cr3> superm1: In my particular context, when I install Ubuntu flavours, this is for testing purposes rather than convenience purposes. So, one implication is that I want the initial install to be as vanilla as possible and not be poluted by other repositories.
[16:24] <superm1> ah, right
[16:24] <cr3> superm1: If I need packages from other repositories, I add the repository and only install the necessary packages explicitly at the very end in the late_command
[16:24] <cr3> superm1: this has been a humbling lesson to learn when reporting false positive bugs :(
[16:25] <superm1> yeah, then that way makes much more sense, and helps to avoid false positives indeed
[16:29] <Jay2k1> Another thing, the auto builds site says "Builds are produced from both the latest "stable" and "trunk" branches from upstream MythTV". Doing dpkg-reconfigure mythbuntu-repos, it asked me to which version I wanted to upgrade, 0.22 or 0.23. Is it correct that 0.22 equals the latest stable here and 0.23 would be trunk then? If so, wouldn't it be a good idea to clarify this in the dpkg-reconfigure text? like, if it'd let you choose between "
[16:29] <Jay2k1> (latest stable)" and "0.23 (trunk - use on your own risk)" or something like that
[16:31] <superm1> Jay2k1, yeah that's correct.
[16:31] <superm1> tgm4883, ^ that's a good recommendation to clarify
[16:32] <superm1> Jay2k1, i've updated the text on the website too, so once the cache expires you should be able to to see it
[16:32] <superm1> cr3, some of the commands you are using for early and late, i'm not sure i'd expect to work on desktop media.  httpd and in-target I thought were specifics to d-i installs only
[16:33] <cr3> superm1: yeah, that's why I check for [ -e /usr/bin/httpd ]
[16:33] <superm1> ah, i see
[16:34] <cr3> I find it unfortunate that this command is not available in the live environment, it's very useful
[16:34] <superm1> on the alternate media what provides it?  surely no full apache install, it's probably a wrapper for something like nc right?
[16:34] <cr3> it's installation specific though, so it would not really make sense to provide in a live environment which is a combination of installation and real environment
[16:35] <cr3> superm1: exactly
[16:35] <superm1> might want to ask cjwatson about pulling it into the live media via casper or something
[16:35] <cr3> I kinda asked a question to that effect in #ubuntu-installer, but perhaps a bug report or an email would be more effective during the weekend :)
[16:35] <superm1> ah yeah just looked at bt there
[16:36] <superm1> i've been seeing him poke around over the weekend now that he has an n900
[16:36] <superm1> but it does sound like it would be incredibly useful for debugging purposes, even in the live env
[16:40] <cr3> superm1: especially since ubiquity has been preseedable, we don't have much of an environment to work from apart from the command line. so, being able to troubleshoot from remote is even more revelant now
[16:43] <superm1> cr3, well i can forsee two logical ways to go about adding that script, take a look at lp:ubuntu/lucid/casper . 1) in the bin/ directory some useful shell scripts live 2) in the scripts/casper-bottom directory, a collection of items that get ran during the boot process.
[16:43] <superm1> i'd probably think the former is the way to go
[16:45] <cr3> superm1: is nc already available in the casper environment?
[16:45] <superm1> Jay2k1, take a look now at http://mythbuntu.org/auto-builds (cache has expired).  does that make more sense now?
[16:46] <Jay2k1> yes, that's better I think.
[16:47] <superm1> cr3, hmm.  you'd have to unpack the initrd to see for sure
[16:48] <superm1> if not, it's on the live system already, so the latter solution of providing a casper script that runs on some flag on /proc/cmdline or some preseed would be sufficient
[16:49] <superm1> Jay2k1, cool thanks.   feel free to point out anything else that is confusing on the site.  people who are new always best at pointing out the stuff that we all take for granted when writing
[16:49] <cr3> superm1: nope, nc is not in initrd.lz
[16:50] <Jay2k1> sure, at least this is something that I could give in return :)
[16:50] <superm1> cr3, you can refer to it as /root/bin/nc at that time instead though probably
[16:50] <superm1> since on the live media, you do have full access to the mounted squashfs at the time of the early command in /root
[16:52] <Jay2k1> I'll explain what led me to all this, perhaps it's nice to know for you: I wanted to build a htpc, looked at several programs/distris and finally decided to use mythtv because of its look and features. I wanted to use a distribution with mythtv preinstalled because I wanted to have as much out-of-the-box working stuff as I could get, and ubuntu, being debian based and yet very up-to-date, seemed to me as the best choice. I downloaded the
[16:52] <Jay2k1> karmic ISO and installed it. After three weeks or so it all ran smoothly.
[16:53] <Jay2k1> now today I found a bug, googled but couldn't find a solution, explained it on #mythtv-users and they told me it has been fixed 8 wks ago  (http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/23110/)
[16:53] <Zinn> [svn.mythtv.org] Changeset 23110 – MythTV
[16:53] <superm1> Jay2k1, so you started from a mythbuntu karmic, or ubuntu karmic?
[16:53] <Jay2k1> sorry, mythbuntu.
[16:53] <superm1> Ok.
[16:54] <superm1> so how did you discover autobuilds then?
[16:54] <Jay2k1> they also told me to upgrade to get rid of this, and that I was "using the pre-release, not 0.22 version they put in just so they could get 0.22-fixes into Karmic"
[16:54] <superm1> ah okay, so the folks in there pointed you to auto-builds then, that's good
[16:55] <Jay2k1> and I should not worry, upgrading to 0.22 stable wouldnt break anything, I should just not upgrade to a trunk version
[16:55] <Jay2k1> "You need to enable the repo that has the current 0.22-fixes branch.  I don't know how.  Someone using *buntu could tell you."
[16:56] <Jay2k1> "#mythbuntu likely has someone who could help you enable the repo to get it.  Just make sure you don't enable the trunk repo if you don't want to upgrade to trunk (it's a one-way path, so once you do, you're stuck on trunk until 0.23)"
[16:56] <Jay2k1> this is what they told me.
[16:56] <superm1> so perhaps we need to find a way to make that more discoverable to people if they run into problems
[16:56] <Jay2k1> yes
[16:56] <mrand> Jay2k1: Yeah, the 0.22-trunk is just an unfortunate name - it was left over from when 0.22 WAS trunk.
[16:56] <Jay2k1> I googled for "mythbuntu sources.list" and somehow ended up on the auto builds page, not really sure if that was what I wanted
[16:57] <Jay2k1> so I asked here to be sure.
[16:57] <superm1> mrand, so what i'm thinking is we need a landing page for anyone that has a bug on mythbuntu.org
[16:57] <superm1> and in there reference autobuilds
[16:57] <superm1> and the launchpad tracker
[16:57] <mrand> superm1: good idea.   Also, when was the repo selection added to MCC?
[16:57] <superm1> and the rest of the support page
[16:57] <superm1> mrand, it's only if you have mythbuntu-repos installed that you get that
[16:58] <mrand> Ah.  That could be another pathway to explain about bugs and -fixes
[16:58] <mrand> Even if the repo plugin isn't installed by default, it could have a screen about bugs in MCC
[16:58] <superm1> so once we get a page like that up and running, we need to find a way to make it higher on google searches
[16:59] <superm1> mrand, i think we can do even better than that... if we get this landing page up, we'll just put something in the Applications menu for Mythbuntu help that directs to the webpage
[16:59] <superm1> it allows us to then retroactively update it even on stable releases
[16:59] <mrand> superm1: true.
[17:00] <Jay2k1> now after all this, I think it's a bit suboptimal that a) my mythbuntu ISO contained a pre-release (my bug was minor stuff, but still) and b) that it was not that beginner-friendly to figure out how to be able to update to the latest stable, I thought the repos needed would be enabled already
[17:00] <mrand> superm1: should we expand/rework http://www.mythbuntu.org/testingandreporting since it is already pretty in google results?
[17:01] <Jay2k1> now you could think that enabling the stable repo by default would be the best to do, on the other hand theres the "if its working, dont fix it" rule, and users might have a stable system which might show unwanted behaviours with these kind of auto updates
[17:01] <superm1> a) was unfortunate, but it's how the timing worked out for the release cycle for upstream mythtv versus the ubuntu release cycle we followed.  hopefully they should sync up nicer this time around
[17:02] <superm1> b) is a technical reason, you aren't allowed to enable third party repos by default from ubuntu packages, and yes since they are automated, there is always the chance something can break in that chain (if its working dont fix it is definitely at play here)
[17:03] <Jay2k1> I see
[17:03] <superm1> so i think if we get a /help landing page together for people, that should hopefully alleviate problems with b)
[17:03] <Jay2k1> yes, maybe
[17:04] <superm1> mrand, well that's from our development wiki site for people wanting to contribute
[17:04] <mrand> yeah, It's not a perfect match
[17:04] <superm1> and it's quite wordy right now
[17:04] <superm1> i'm thinking probably a new page would be better
[17:05] <superm1> if we link to it from the front page, it will make it up onto google's pretty links after a short time period
[17:05] <mrand> cool.
[17:08] <mrand> superm1: I'm trying to think of an idea name.   /bugs or maybe reportingbugs is somewhat close, and could also list common known problems (like the release notes page... maybe move that stuff to this page).   I don't care for /help for some reason, although I can't justify it well.
[17:08] <Jay2k1> what would have helped me would have been a note that says "mythbuntu 9.10 users: from default install, you are using a pre-release of mythtv 0.22 that still contains some minor bugs (click here to see why). We recommend that you upgrade to the final version 0.22 by following these three steps: [explain enabling auto builds here]"
[17:09] <superm1> mrand, i'm open to anything, but considering it will probably be linked to from a help menu item in Applications, /help made sense to me
[17:09] <superm1> Jay2k1, yes that sounds like a great recommendation for the release notes on 9.10
[17:09] <mrand> Jay2k1: did you encounter the 9.10 release notes page in your reading/searching?
[17:10] <Jay2k1> touché heh
[17:10] <Jay2k1> (that's a no)
[17:10] <cr3> superm1: are you sure in-target is not available from the ubiquity success_command? I rely on that command and haven't noticed any problems, which doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any problems :)
[17:11] <mrand> Jay2k1: That's perfectly fine.   Just trying to figure out what a user ends up finding.
[17:11] <superm1> mrand, so maybe on download page we should link to release notes too then
[17:11] <superm1> eg "While you're downloading, you may care to read over the <link>"
[17:11] <mrand> superm1: for sure!  I'll do that.
[17:12] <superm1> cr3, well from a live cd booted up, does "which in-target" work?
[17:12] <Jay2k1> well you know, I'm sysadmin, most of my servers are linux, I'm not a noob and usually I'm the one that tells others to rtfm, I feel a bit shitty about this
[17:12] <mrand> hahaha Jay2k1.  think nothing of it.
[17:12] <Jay2k1> :)
[17:13] <superm1> cr3, i'm not aware what would be providing it, since it's normally in the initrd for alternate media
[17:13] <mrand> We know that our stuff is kinda fragmented, and that we have some semi-special situations that are difficult to capture in an easy to find way.  Your case is a perfect example.
[17:13] <cr3> superm1: I'll have to look into that, thanks for the heads up though
[17:14] <superm1> and it's especially difficult to know what the habits are of people that are new to the project (linux experience or not), so a lot of times we're just fishing in murky waters
[17:15] <Jay2k1> I have to admit that I regard release notes as a place where I can mainly see what has changed since the previous version (the most important stuff from the changelog). Of course release notes may also contain important stuff about that particular release
[17:16] <superm1> cr3, ah just checked ubiquity changelog. debian/changelog:  * Install chroot-setup.sh and in-target from debian-installer-utils
[17:16] <superm1> so yes it's included in ubiquity, how nice :)
[17:17] <superm1> be careful with it though, I don't think a debconf frontend is really running at that point still necessarily
[17:17] <cr3> superm1: man, you had me worried for a while there :)
[17:21] <superm1> cr3, does your preseed normally stack on top of the one on the media, or replace it?
[17:22] <superm1> there are a few specifics that are on the media's preseed that you'll want in here still wrg to language support
[17:22] <cr3> superm1: replace it
[17:23] <cr3> superm1: like d-i     pkgsel/install-language-support boolean false and d-i     pkgsel/language-pack-patterns   string?
[17:23] <superm1> exactly, yup
[17:24] <cr3> I've been considering having my preseed override the media preseed, because I think the preseed parser supports redefining keys which get overwritten if they exist already
[17:24] <cr3> that would be a good use case. I wonder if the default preseed name is consistent throughout all flavours
[17:25] <superm1> it should be consistent throughout all flavors
[17:25] <superm1> and as of casper for lucid i added support to use multiple preseeds
[17:26] <cr3> yep, looks like it: xubuntu.seed, mythbuntu.seed, ubuntu.seed, ie authoritative flavour name dot seed
[17:26] <cr3> superm1: man, I should stop joining this channel, more work on my plate now :)
[17:26] <superm1> haha
[17:29] <gbee> so trunk-0.22 is actually the -fixes repo?
[17:30]  * gbee asks before configuring it
[17:34] <gbee> hmm, it's unable to install half the packages for some reason, keeps asking if I want to do a partial install (which I don't since that will break badly)
[17:34] <Spanner3003> hi is interactive tv working the the latest mythbuntu autobuild?
[17:35] <gbee> Spanner3003: mheg?
[17:36] <Spanner3003> yes
[17:36] <gbee> no reason it shouldn't be, at least not one that I'm aware of
[17:36] <gbee> unless someone backported a patch which broke it and no-one has noticed yet
[17:37] <mrand> gbee: , yes trunk-0.22 is actually -fixes
[17:37] <mrand> That unfortunate naming will be avoided in the future.
[17:37] <superm1> gbee, yeah, 0.23 is already named "0.23", 0.24 will be 0.24 etc
[17:37] <gbee> superm1: cool
[17:38] <gbee> did the partial upgrade thing anyway and it turns out to have been misleading, it just wanted to uninstall a couple of conflicting nvidia packages
[17:38] <superm1> gbee, yeah i was just gonna say, that's probably what it was
[17:38] <superm1> because we switched to an nvidia driver that supports an external libvdpau library
[17:39] <superm1> which is the default for 10.04, but wasnt supported on the repos for 9.10
[17:39] <Spanner3003> ok so what am i doing wrong i looked at the myth frontend out put on dmcc and mheg and its dowloading the mheg app but nothing in mheg
[17:39] <gbee> the upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10 went remarkably smoothly, I'm impressed, I would have done it much earlier if I'd known ;)
[17:40] <gbee> Spanner3003: which country?
[17:40] <mrand> gbee: a decent fraction of people had trouble with sound.  Good to hear you aren't one of them!
[17:40] <Spanner3003> uk
[17:40] <gbee> freesat or freeview?
[17:40] <gbee> and which channel
[17:40] <Spanner3003> freesat
[17:40] <Spanner3003> bbc1
[17:41] <Spanner3003> well any bbc channel
[17:41] <Jay2k1> so I'm not the only one who stumbled upon this :)
[17:42] <gbee> mrand: I had to change to unmute the digital output _again_ which was odd, obviously a package insists on muting it when installed, but other than that
[17:44] <gbee> Spanner3003: heh, I was about to say it's working fine in trunk but it's not, seems to have been broken, possibly by the ffmpeg resync a couple of weeks ago, are you using 0.22-fixes or trunk?
[17:45] <gbee> Daniel won't be pleased, that's a new blocker for the 0.23 release
[17:45] <Spanner3003> 0.23 a mythbuntu autobuilb
[17:46] <mrand> gbee:  :-(
[17:46] <Spanner3003> 0.23 a mythbuntu autobuild
[17:46] <gbee> trunk then, yeah, confirmed that it is broken, that's for bringing it to my attention
[17:46] <superm1> Spanner3003, can you file a bug on svn.mythtv.org with this information so that this can be tracked?  also provide the rev # of the autobuild you're on right now
[17:46] <Zinn> [svn.mythtv.org]
[17:47] <gbee> superm1, Spanner3003: don't bother, I'll do it
[17:47] <Spanner3003> how please i've never done one
[17:47] <superm1> Ok.
[17:47] <superm1> Spanner3003, apt-cache policy mythtv-common will tell us the autobuild you're on
[17:48] <superm1> would be useful to verify you are running a build after the sync
[17:48] <gbee> more expedient as I'd only end up being the one to triage it anyway
[17:49] <Spanner3003> what patest bin do you use
[17:49] <superm1> !pastebin
[17:49] <Zinn> when pasting more than 5 lines of data please use http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com so you don't flood the channel.  Then please post the link in the channel.
[17:52] <Spanner3003> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/3t4nsptb
[17:52] <Spanner3003> that is the autobuild revition i'm on
[17:52] <superm1> cool thanks, quite recent then
[17:53] <Spanner3003> yep sorry did say i updated today
[17:53] <Spanner3003> did'n
[17:54] <Spanner3003> did'nt***
[18:00] <gbee> superm1: the mythfrontend/backend wrappers don't pass through --version?
[18:01] <gbee> well the mythfrontend wrapper, since the backend doesn't have one as I though
[18:01] <gbee> t
[18:03] <superm1> gbee, huh?  the frontend wrapper should
[18:03] <superm1> it calls         exec /usr/bin/mythfrontend.real "$@"
[18:03] <superm1> which should pass all arguments
[18:03] <gbee> the output is captured?
[18:05] <superm1> if it's started from a non terminal, then it's captured into /var/log/mythtv/mythfrontend.log
[18:06] <superm1> if it's started from a terminal, it goes to stdout
[18:07] <gbee> must be a ssh/ubuntu thing then, guess it's not that important
[18:07] <mrand> gbee:  I have the same setup as you, and it wfm.   puzzling....
[18:07] <superm1> what's happening exactly?
[18:08] <gbee> nothing ;)
[18:08] <superm1> weird...
[18:08] <gbee> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/iXjpxa0i
[18:08] <mrand> I do get xprop:  unable to open display ''  (that is two single quotes), but otherwise it does output
[18:09] <gbee> mythfrontend.real --version does work, as expected
[18:09] <superm1> well i'd like to ditch that wrapper script for 10.10, but there are a bunch of problems with doing so still
[18:09] <superm1> what's in your /etc/mythtv/session-settings?
[18:09] <superm1> anything non-standard?
[18:09] <superm1> oh, do you have mythfrontend running?
[18:09] <superm1> there is a pidof mythfrontend.real 2>&1 >/dev/null && wmctrl -a "MythTV Frontend" 2>/dev/null && exit 0
[18:10] <gbee> afaik I've never modified that, and without an original to diff against I could say what is or isn't standard
[18:10] <gbee> superm1: ahh, yes it's running
[18:10] <superm1> that's exactly why then
[18:10] <gbee> right, solved then :)
[18:10] <superm1> its in that script to people don't launch mythfrontend multiple times
[18:10] <superm1> which causes some weird behaviors
[18:12] <mrand> that reminds me that I was going to submit an option to allow for that.
[18:14] <gbee> heh, I've just deleted the session cache because exactly that was happening to me, two instances of mythfrontend were running and I'm guessing the second was there because the xfwm session was starting it
[18:15] <gbee> just a theory, but it was in the session file so that was probably it
[18:15] <greenwom> Hello, Hauppauge hvr-1950  Mythbuntu 9.10    can't get it working.  Have it set as dvb and bound to a source.
[18:15] <greenwom> where should I look first?
[18:16] <gbee> and that's my queue to leave, thanks for the help guys
[18:16] <gbee> err, cue
[18:17] <mrand> greenwom: I don't have dvb, but the first place I'd check is /var/log/dmesg and verify that the device is being initialized successfully.
[18:20] <greenwom> It's hard to tell... the device shows up out of the box as /dev/dvb/frontend/  ** if I add firmware that I extractr I get a /dev/video0
[18:22] <greenwom> either way I can't get it to start :)\
[18:22] <greenwom> !help
[18:22] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[18:22] <mrand> greenwom: have you tried cat /dev/video0 > filename.mpg
[18:23] <greenwom> I'll add the firmware and try
[18:29] <greenwom> brb, reboot
[18:33] <greenwom> back
[18:34] <greenwom> well I lost my /dev/video0, I am at square one with the hvr-1950
[18:35] <greenwom> !help
[18:35] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[18:35] <mrand> greenwom: did you check dmesg log?
[18:36] <mrand> greenwom: also try: lsusb
[18:38] <greenwom> it shows up is lsusb,  under dmesg I am still sifting through it (I'm guessing not from all the junk).
[18:38] <greenwom> ya its not loading properly
[18:39] <greenwom> I'm not sure if I should be using the out of thebox support that gives my the /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend or adding the firmware I extracted....
[18:42] <mrand> greenwom: not sure.  Looks like there was a problem in the past, but I'd expect that to have been resolved by now.   http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=994566 Might search the forums for more info.
[18:42] <Zinn> [ubuntuforums.org] [SOLVED] Can't Get Hauppauge hvr-1950 to install - Ubuntu Forums
[18:48] <greenwom> Zinn: I've tried adding the firmware via those instructions...  not haveing any luck
[18:48] <Zinn> Hi greenwom, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[19:41] <greenwom> mrand: I now have it back as DVB...  but still no luck
[19:42] <greenwom> now I get configuratio #1 chosen from 1 choice (in dmesg)
[19:43] <greenwom> but when I scan for channels card does not start, and there is another firmware error?
[19:47] <greenwom1> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com
[19:47] <greenwom1> any help?
[19:48] <greenwom1> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/Ua2pimfa
[19:51] <greenwom1> hvr-1950 mythbuntu 9.10
[20:44] <dorgan> hello all
[20:44] <dorgan> maybe someone in here can help I have gotten no help on the mythtv mailing list
[20:44] <dorgan> i am trying to get sound working via HDMI with my GT 220 card
[20:45] <dorgan> i have followed: http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=HOW-TO_set_up_HDMI_audio_on_nVidia_GeForce_G210,_GT220,_or_GT240#Before_You_Begin.2FNotes
[20:45] <Zinn> [wiki.xbmc.org] HOW-TO set up HDMI audio on nVidia GeForce G210, GT220, or GT240 - XBMC
[20:45] <dorgan> and in alsamixer I have unmuted S/PDIF but still i have no sound
[20:49] <dorgan> Zinn: didnt you see I followed that
[20:49] <Zinn> Hi dorgan, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[20:50] <dorgan> No
[20:50] <dorgan> lol
[20:52] <dorgan> anyone else around
[21:05] <benomatic> anybody have suggestions for a theme that makes the commercial editing coloring easy to see?  so far i'm having little luck finding a good one...
[21:05] <greenwom> wish I could help.  I am still waiting on some help for my hvr-1950.....
[21:06] <greenwom> http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/Ua2pimfa
[21:24] <dorgan> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=39135&d=1263249229
[21:24] <Zinn> [www.nvnews.net]
[21:24] <dorgan> hello all
[21:24] <dorgan> 3:44
[21:24] <dorgan> maybe someone in here can help I have gotten no help on the mythtv mailing list
[21:24] <dorgan> 3:44
[21:24] <dorgan> i am trying to get sound working via HDMI with my GT 220 card
[21:24] <dorgan> 3:45
[21:24] <dorgan> i have followed: http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=HOW-TO_set_up_HDMI_audio_on_nVidia_GeForce_G210,_GT220,_or_GT240#Before_You_Begin.2FNotes
[21:24] <Zinn> [wiki.xbmc.org] HOW-TO set up HDMI audio on nVidia GeForce G210, GT220, or GT240 - XBMC
[21:25] <dorgan> and in alsamixer I have unmuted S/PDIF but still i have no sound
[21:40] <gbee> I spoke too soon earlier, between upgrading to Karmic and installing the latest 0.22-fixes weekly builds, the remote stopped working - lirc is correctly configured and working (tested with irw) and mythfrontend can see the socket and is reading the correct lircrc, so I'm stumped
[21:59] <davisc> I've just installed Mythbuntu karmic clean on my system. The internal video player is stretching videos to fill the screen instead of letterboxing in them. Any suggestions?
[22:02] <gbee> davisc: are you now, or have you ever used mythtv on a two monitor (twinview/xinerama) setup?
[22:03] <gbee> I'm not sure if it's even displayed otherwise, but in multi-monitor setups there is a Monitor Aspect Ratio setting in the 'Screen settings' page of the appearance settings
[22:05] <gbee> if it's there you should check that it's correct, SD TVs will be 4:3, widescreen TVs will be 16:9, monitors normally 16:10
[22:05] <davisc> gbee: No, this is a clean mythtv install. Wiped the disk from my previous mythbuntu gutsy install
[22:06] <davisc> gbee: And it's a 19" LCD monitor connected by DVI
[22:08] <gbee> davisc: have you modified the x config? Changed DisplaySize? If a DisplaySize lie exists in xorg.conf, then try removing it
[22:11] <davisc> gbee: There isn't even an xorg.conf. Everything else shows fine, just the videos are causing a problem
[22:12] <gbee> pastebin the output of xdpyinfo
[22:18] <davisc> http://pastebin.ca/1827753
[22:20] <dorgan> EUREEKA….apparently i needed to create /etc/asound.conf and add the following:pcm.!default hdmi:NVidia
[22:20] <dorgan> pcm:iec958 hdmi:NVidia
[22:23] <gbee> davisc: that looks fine, I'm out of ideas but you might want to ask the question in #mythtv-users where they are bound to think of something I haven't
[22:24] <davisc> Thanks
[22:24] <gbee> there is a video aspect override setting that might be worth looking at, but again that should only be a problem if you'd modified the defaults, not on a clean install
[22:32] <superm1> gbee, try ircat
[22:33] <superm1> just to check for any errors in the lircrc itself
[22:34] <superm1> that's a really weird upgrade bug though, especially if it's working w/ irw and was working fully before
[22:54] <gbee> ircat shows everything working too, and I've found I can make things work again if I edit lircrc while the frontend is running ... which is bizarre
[22:55] <gbee> I'm going to change .mythtv/lircrc from a symlink and see whether that has any relationship
[23:00] <superm1> that is the weirdest thing i've ever heard
[23:06] <gbee> yeah, because it's not true, I've figured it out as a myth_system locking bug that I thought had been fixed in -fixes
[23:07] <superm1> do you have a reference to a commit by chance?
[23:07] <gbee> it prevented lirc working for the first two to three minutes after a frontend start
[23:08] <gbee> so editing the file didn't fix anything, it's just that the locks had been released coincidently just as a saved
[23:08] <gbee> s/a/I/
[23:08] <gbee> superm1: I'll dig them up and try to find out why the fix wasn't backported
[23:10] <gbee> doesn't seem the fix was backported after all, http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/23314  was the trunk commit, http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7921  was the ticket
[23:10] <Zinn> [svn.mythtv.org] Changeset 23314 – MythTV
[23:11] <gbee> heh, Zinn only checks the first link
[23:11] <Zinn> Hi gbee, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[23:11] <gbee> Zinn: do you want to play a game?
[23:11] <Zinn> Hi gbee, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[23:12] <gbee> aww, he has obviously never seen War Games
[23:17] <gbee> superm1: I've just backported the fix, any idea when the weekly build script runs?
[23:19] <superm1> gbee, 4:40 central time from what i can tell
[23:19] <superm1> Daviey can tell you for sure
[23:21] <gbee> Daviey: ^^, on Sunday, so we've missed it by a couple of hours?
[23:24] <Spanner3003> hi i'v asked this before but i can work out why
[23:24] <gbee> well, less than an hour in fact
[23:25] <Spanner3003> i have mythbuntu the latest autobuild
[23:25] <Spanner3003> and a hauppauge nova-s
[23:27] <superm1> gbee, for some reason it looks like 23670 just got queued up somehow on the PPA
[23:27] <superm1> either Daviey manually did that one, Zinn grew smarter than i ever thought, or there is some magic logic going on for when they're getting queued
[23:27] <Zinn> Hi superm1, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[23:28] <Spanner3003> i have pulse audio and alsa installed and they seem to work fine but in myth backend i have alsa, pulse audio, /dev/dsp1 and /dev/dsp2 but only /dev/dsp2 gives me sound in tv
[23:28] <gbee> superm1: heh
[23:29] <jolaren> Any swede here using boxer?
[23:32] <Spanner3003> did i explain my-self clear another?
[23:33] <Spanner3003> as i am admittedly not good at explaining my-self
[23:34] <jolaren> Is it okay to discuss cam modules within the own household? my operator required me to have a card to view my channels and I can only get the freechannels to work (i pay for them ofcourse)
[23:37] <jolaren> I do understand if its not allowed.. I guess
[23:38] <Daviey> superm1: I blame Zinn
[23:38] <Zinn> Hi Daviey, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[23:38] <superm1> Daviey, so did you manually queue that one, or is the cron just running late then?
[23:40] <Daviey> superm1: Zinn logged in and did it manually, with my help
[23:40] <Zinn> Hi Daviey, something I can help you with today?  I am a bot, use !help to see what I can do.
[23:40] <superm1> Daviey, how come cron didn't run it earlier then?
[23:40] <superm1> there were changes to 0.23 earlier today that should have caused a 0.23 build
[23:41] <Daviey> superm1: I changed the time
[23:41] <superm1> oh
[23:41] <Daviey> superm1: do you have any preference on time?
[23:41] <superm1> what's the new time then?
[23:43] <Daviey> superm1: 6:00 AM UTC, unless you think a different time matters
[23:44] <superm1> that's probably fine
[23:45] <Daviey> superm1: urk, lucid failure
[23:45] <superm1> on 0.22, which shouldnt be building on lucid anyway
[23:45] <superm1> i'll disable that
[23:54] <jolaren> superm1: :-) I followed ur guide the first time I installed mythtv
[23:54] <jolaren> =)
[23:55] <Daviey> superm1: i just did a push to mythbuntu-weekly-build.. My hands are left dirty.
[23:57] <superm1> oh god that's dirty
[23:57] <superm1> but i guess it works for now
[23:58] <superm1> cool jolaren, things have come a long way since those old guides :)
[23:58] <superm1> as for discussing cams, soft cams are off limits, hardware cams are fine


[00:21] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
[12:14] <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
[23:47] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.