[00:16] <amurray> RAOF bdmurray: I asked tjaalton on Friday about sponsoring my libseccomp SRU in LP: #1891810 but I can't see it in the queue... would either of you be willing to sponsor this to unapproved?
[04:49] <tjaalton> amurray: oh, i misunderstood then..i can sponsor it
[05:59] <amurray> tjaalton: awesome, thanks - apologies for confusing things the other day, but I think I finally understand how the queues / -proposed etc all fit together now - also I had subscribed ubuntu-sponsors to the bug, so is pinging someone in here redundant then in that case to just get it uploaded to unapproved? Or is that still a useful step in this case to make sure it gets seen?
[06:00] <tjaalton> amurray: pinging potential sponsors would help, sru team members generally have other things on their plate
[06:00] <tjaalton> the sru team is a small subset of core-dev
[06:00] <amurray> cool - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't creating extra noise - thanks again for your help with this
[06:02] <tjaalton> so if your team has (a) core-dev(s), they might be the first one(s) to ask ;)
[06:03] <amurray> ooh ok I'll bother m_deslaur next time instead then
[06:03] <amurray> :)
[06:20] <amurray> tjaalton: so just to confirm, are you happy to take a look at this one and sponsor it to unapproved for me or should I go to marc instead?
[06:21] <tjaalton> amurray: I can do it now. where was it?
[06:21] <tjaalton> oh the lp bug above
[06:21] <amurray> debdiff's are attached in the bug, and I have uploaded them to the security-proposed PPA as well at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-proposed/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/ if that's easier to work with
[06:51] <tjaalton> amurray: hmm now I see that you're actually backporting 2.5.1 to every release.. why is that needed?
[06:54] <amurray> it adds support for new system calls plus some fixups for issues on various architectures as well - so without support for these new syscalls, applications that use libseccomp can't effectively sandbox themselves as they can't even specify a filter to say limit access to one of the new syscalls that get added in later kernels - this is important for things like snapd to make sure that snaps can't inadvertentl
[06:54] <amurray> call and hence bypass an intended access restriction
[06:55] <tjaalton> ok, I see that 2.4.3 was backported earlier, so it's not the first time
[06:55] <tjaalton> that a full backport is proposed
[06:56] <amurray> yep this is 'normal' for libseccomp :)
[07:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libseccomp (bionic-proposed/main) [2.4.3-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 2.5.1-1ubuntu1~18.04.1] (core)
[07:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libseccomp (xenial-proposed/main) [2.4.3-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 2.5.1-1ubuntu1~16.04.1] (core)
[07:08] <tjaalton> amurray: uploaded
[07:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libseccomp (focal-proposed/main) [2.4.3-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 2.5.1-1ubuntu1~20.04.1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[07:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: libseccomp (groovy-proposed/main) [2.4.3-1ubuntu4 => 2.5.1-1ubuntu1~20.10.1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[07:10] <amurray> tjaalton: thank you :)
[09:47] <jibel> sil2100, Laney could one of you review bug 1918613
[09:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted oem-somerville-bronn-meta [source] (focal-proposed) [20.04~ubuntu1]
[10:02] <sil2100> jibel: on it!
[10:02] <sil2100> Laney: ...in the meantime, could you review the netplan FFe for Lukas? Since I guess it's in 'bad taste' to review and approve FFe's of a project I'm heavily involved in:
[10:02] <sil2100> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netplan.io/+bug/1919453
[10:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: oem-somerville-bronn-meta [amd64] (focal-proposed/none) [20.04~ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[10:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted oem-somerville-bronn-meta [amd64] (focal-proposed) [20.04~ubuntu1]
[10:07] <jibel> sil2100, thanks!
[10:21] <sil2100> Done o/
[10:34] <tintou> Hi there! Can someone look at bug 1915529 (bileto: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4442 )
[10:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Added oem-somerville-bronn-meta to canonical-oem-metapackages in bionic
[10:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Added oem-somerville-bronn-meta to canonical-oem-metapackages in focal
[10:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Packageset: Added oem-somerville-bronn-meta to canonical-oem-metapackages in xenial
[11:01] <rbasak> Laney: ^ first script action seen
[11:01] <rbasak> (I think?)
[11:07] <Laney> yup
[11:07] <Laney> rbasak: and the mail worked too, woohoo
[11:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (bionic-proposed/main) [1.167~18.04.0 => 1.167~18.04.1] (core)
[11:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: grub2-signed (xenial-proposed/main) [1.167~16.04.0 => 1.167~16.04.1] (core)
[11:29] <xnox> vorlon: no change backports ftbfs because they want too new debhelper =( uploaded using compat 9 in hirsute, and just doing .1 bumps for bionic & xenial ^^^^
[11:29] <xnox> next time we do SRUs it should be better.....
[13:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted debian-science [amd64] (hirsute-proposed) [1.14.1ubuntu1]
[13:05] <doko> ogra: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hirsute/+queue?queue_state=0  are all these syncs wanted for hirsute? because the ppa doesn't have any hirsute packages ...
[13:05] <ogra> doko, yeah, it is all for hirsute
[13:06] <ogra> (well, eventually for focal SRUs )
[13:06] <doko> I'm not going to review these, no time
[13:07] <ogra> doko, no, it is all planned and agreed with sil2100 already, there wer multiple meetings around these syncs
[13:07] <ogra> *were
[13:07] <doko> so source reviews were already done?
[13:08] <ogra> i dont think so
[13:19] <doko> Laney: where can I find better information, why bazel-bootstrap/riscv64 doesn't migrate?
[13:52] <sil2100> ogra: well, to be fair it was never mentioned that those builds were done for focal
[13:53] <sil2100> ogra: I didn't look at the packages themselves, but since we targeted hirsute I assumed those were built against hirsute - how can we know if the packages build correctly in hirsute then?
[13:53] <ogra> sil2100, i thought you had taken a look at the PPA ...
[13:53] <ogra> abeato, ^^^ could you do re-builds for hirsute
[13:54] <ogra> and ping me after ... then i can re-import
[13:54] <sil2100> No, I wasn't involved in the sponsoring parts
[13:54] <sil2100> Guess I shouldn't have assumed stuff
[13:54] <sil2100> oh well
[13:54]  * ogra notes that he's not actually here ...
[13:55] <abeato> ogra, ack, will do
[13:55] <ogra> thx
[13:56] <xnox> ogra:  also source archive is private, so non-AAs can't see what you are trying to copy in =)
[13:56] <xnox> direct uploads would be nice, or like make the source that things are copied from public. Or like copy to a public PPA first, then into the archive. Although maybe even then things will still be hidden.
[13:56] <ogra> xnox, which is fine i guess ? since the reviewer will be AA ?
[13:59] <abeato> sil2100, is it possible to copy binaries to hirsute directly? or a rebuild is needed?
[14:00] <cjwatson> Most things become public once they've been copied to some kind of public archive, but this case will still be problematic because the team that owns the PPA is private.
[14:01] <cjwatson> Such copies (from PPAs owned by private teams) have historically caused problems because the original build location is invisible even after they're copied into the primary archive.
[14:02] <ogra> which is why only source packages got copied ...
[14:02] <cjwatson> I think most of those issues are fixed now, but it's only even been possible to avoid some of the problems within the last year or so, so there may be further problems.
[14:02] <cjwatson> Ah, only copying sources will probably help, yes.
[14:02] <cjwatson> The publication history will still look a bit odd for people who can't see that team.
[14:13] <xnox> abeato: we do allow binary copies from bileto.ubuntu.com => public one. But there are many requirements on the built binaries. I.e. built devirt, with pkgbinarymanger, with debug symbols, such that the end copy look correct "just like it was built in the archive"
[14:13] <xnox> but the source PPA had to be setup correctly before the builds were done.
[14:14] <xnox> built with -security/-proposed enabled, as appropriate
[14:14] <abeato> xnox, hm, I see, looks like it will be easier if I upload a new version for hirsute
[14:18] <xnox> abeato:  yeah....
[14:23] <Laney> doko: nowhere special, use chdist or something to see why it's not installable I guess
[14:23] <Laney> (from update_output)
[14:27] <kanashiro_> sil2100: bdmurray do you have any comments about the backport of the container stack I am doing? LP #1919322
[14:27] <kanashiro_> I am working on runc regressions and it'd be great to know if any issue will arise with containerd and docker.io
[15:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1068.76~16.04.1] (kernel)
[15:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.15.0-1096.109~16.04.1] (kernel)
[15:37] <sil2100> Laney: hey hey! Did you have a moment to take a look at ze netplanz FFe?
[15:39] <juliank> ubuntu-archive please remove some rust cruft: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rust-num-rational/+bug/1920947
[15:48] <falcojr> bdmurray: cloud-init SRU uploads have been queued for X, B, F, and G. Can you review so we can get them into proposed?
[15:51] <juliank> more removals: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rust-proc-quote/+bug/1920957
[15:51] <juliank> next trying to figure out if we can remove rust-diesel
[15:51] <juliank> $ reverse-depends -b src:rust-diesel
[15:51] <juliank> b'
Package not published in specified release
'
[15:51] <juliank> reverse-depends me no likes
[15:51] <sil2100> bdmurray: once you're around, since Laney is busy busy, could maybe you take a look at the netplan FFe? Link to it is here:
[15:52] <sil2100> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netplan.io/+bug/1919453
[15:52] <sil2100> (since I don't want to self-ACK a project I'm active in)
[15:52] <juliank> Ooh, rust-derive-more can go too
[15:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gcp [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-1096.109~16.04.1]
[15:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-1068.76~16.04.1]
[15:53] <juliank> removal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rust-derive-more/+bug/1920959
[15:54] <sil2100> bdmurray: in the meantime, even though it's not my SRU day, I'll take a look at your SRU uploads o/
[15:55] <bdmurray> falcojr: noted
[15:55] <bdmurray> sil2100: thanks!
[15:58] <sil2100> bdmurray, vorlon, Laney: another uh, small FFe for ubuntu-image - late and a really small release, but it's for the DTB UC20 stuff:
[15:58] <sil2100> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-image/+bug/1920955
[15:59] <sil2100> It actually only really matters for focal, but I want to keep the chain of releases proper
[16:09] <doko> bah, removed perl 5.32.1-3 from hirsute-proposed. not built on amd64, and b0rking -proposed
[16:17] <Laney> sil2100: sorry, I'll look soon
[16:17] <Laney> in 20 minutes or so
[16:18] <bdmurray> falcojr: bug 19118303 referenced in the changelog seems to be private so the SRU of cloud-init cannot be accepted. Additionally, bug 1908548 is missing SRU information although the test case seems obvious.
[16:25] <falcojr> bdmurray: Thanks. Can you clarify what you mean by "bug 1908548 is missing SRU information" ?
[16:28] <bdmurray> falcojr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#SRU_Bug_Template
[16:39] <bdmurray> kanashiro_: Looking at docker.io for Groovy there seem to be some packaging changes that aren't documented in the changelog e.g. OOMScoreAdjust=-500. Could you double check the diff and update the SRU bug?
[16:43] <kanashiro_> bdmurray: ok, I will double check that. Would a new comment in the bug be enough? Like I did for containerd
[16:46] <Laney> sil2100: done
[16:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted corosync [source] (groovy-proposed) [3.0.3-2ubuntu3.1]
[16:47] <bdmurray> kanashiro_: I think an "Other Info" section in the bug description would be best.
[16:48] <kanashiro_> bdmurray: ack
[16:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted corosync [source] (focal-proposed) [3.0.3-2ubuntu2.1]
[16:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted corosync [source] (bionic-proposed) [2.4.3-0ubuntu1.2]
[16:56] <sil2100> Laney: <3
[16:56] <sil2100> Laney: thank you!
[17:11] <falcojr> bdmurray: re: SRU of cloud-init...1918303 is now public and I have added the SRU template to 1908548
[17:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted exo [source] (groovy-proposed) [0.12.11-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[17:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted exo [source] (focal-proposed) [0.12.11-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[17:17] <bdmurray> falcojr: great, thanks!
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: at (focal-proposed/main) [3.1.23-1ubuntu1 => 3.1.23-1ubuntu1.1] (core)
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: at (groovy-proposed/main) [3.1.23-1ubuntu2 => 3.1.23-1ubuntu2.1] (core)
[17:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted s390-tools [source] (groovy-proposed) [2.14.0-1ubuntu1.2]
[17:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools (groovy-proposed/main) [2.14.0-1ubuntu1.1 => 2.14.0-1ubuntu1.2] (core)
[17:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted s390-tools [source] (focal-proposed) [2.12.0-0ubuntu3.3]
[17:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: lg-gpio (hirsute-proposed/primary) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected lg-gpio [source] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted lg-gpio [source] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected bootgen-xlnx [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [2020.2]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected libegl-mali-xlnx [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [9p0.01rel0-0ubuntu3]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected u-boot-xlnx [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [2020.2-0ubuntu3]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected vitis-ai [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [1.3-1ubuntu2]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected xilinx-vcu-ctrl [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [2020.2-0ubuntu1]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected xlnx-firmware [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [0.1ubuntu13]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected fpga-manager-xlnx [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [2020.2ubuntu1]
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected vitis-ai-dnndk [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [1.3]
[17:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected xilinx-vcu-omx [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [2020.2-0ubuntu1]
[17:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected linux-firmware-xilinx-vcu [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [2020.2-0ubuntu0xlnx1]
[17:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected xrt [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [202<IP_ADDRESS>6-0ubuntu2]
[17:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected xf86-video-armsoc-endlessm [sync] (hirsute-proposed) [1.4.1-0ubuntu1]
[17:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted python-rtslib-fb [source] (groovy-proposed) [2.1.73-1ubuntu4.1]
[17:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: s390-tools (focal-proposed/main) [2.12.0-0ubuntu3.2 => 2.12.0-0ubuntu3.3] (core)
[17:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lg-gpio [s390x] (hirsute-proposed/none) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lg-gpio [amd64] (hirsute-proposed/none) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lg-gpio [ppc64el] (hirsute-proposed/none) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lg-gpio [arm64] (hirsute-proposed/none) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lg-gpio [armhf] (hirsute-proposed/none) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted lg-gpio [amd64] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted lg-gpio [armhf] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted lg-gpio [s390x] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted lg-gpio [arm64] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted lg-gpio [ppc64el] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[17:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lg-gpio [riscv64] (hirsute-proposed/universe) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[18:21] <kanashiro_> bdmurray: I just added the "Other Info"  section as you requested
[19:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ceilometer (groovy-proposed/main) [1:15.0.0-0ubuntu2 => 1:15.0.0-0ubuntu3] (openstack)
[19:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted landscape-client [source] (groovy-proposed) [19.12-0ubuntu5.1]
[19:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted landscape-client [source] (focal-proposed) [19.12-0ubuntu4.2]
[20:11] <xnox> is perl broken?
[20:11] <xnox> Can't locate IO/Compress/Gzip.pm in @INC
[20:11] <xnox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/529442668/buildlog_ubuntu-hirsute-armhf.rustc_1.50.0+dfsg1+llvm-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
[20:13] <xnox> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[20:13] <xnox>   build-essential* dpkg-dev* libdpkg-perl* perl*
[20:13] <xnox> lol
[20:26] <doko> xnox: was out of sync across archs. should be fine now
[20:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted lg-gpio [riscv64] (hirsute-proposed) [<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1]
[20:57] <xnox> doko:  ack.
[21:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sosreport (groovy-proposed/main) [4.0-1ubuntu2.2 => 4.1-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
[21:29] <mwhudson> ah i saw that failure too, was confusing
[22:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cloud-init [source] (groovy-proposed) [21.1-19-gbad84ad4-0ubuntu1~20.10.1]
[22:49] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cloud-init [source] (focal-proposed) [21.1-19-gbad84ad4-0ubuntu1~20.04.1]
[23:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cloud-init [source] (bionic-proposed) [21.1-19-gbad84ad4-0ubuntu1~18.04.1]
[23:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted cloud-init [source] (xenial-proposed) [21.1-19-gbad84ad4-0ubuntu1~16.04.1]
[23:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted docker.io [source] (groovy-proposed) [20.10.2-0ubuntu1~20.10.1]
[23:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected ceilometer [source] (groovy-proposed) [1:15.0.0-0ubuntu3]
[23:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ceilometer [source] (groovy-proposed) [1:15.0.0-0ubuntu3]


 Happy Wednesday, and happy Day Of Hope! 😃 🌱
[12:31] <directhex> is something screwy going on with ports.ubuntu.com? i'm getting hash sum mismatches in my xenial armhf CI
[13:41] <diplo> Anyone alive in here today ?
[13:42] <zmoylan-pi> .....brains.....
[13:42] <diplo> See if I can get some suggestions. We support customers with software etc I'm sorting ssl certs out for our erp system
[13:42] <diplo> so i can resolve software.domain.tld and LE SSL works etc
[13:43] <diplo> We use Draytek ( as do a lot of our customers ) and I want to be able to resolve software.domain.tld across all subnets/vpn's whatever on our sites
[13:44] <diplo> I really just think I'm buggered and I'll have to add a manual entry on each router unless I setup a bind or dnsmasq on the main site and get all the others pointing to it, which is way past my remit
[14:14] <diplo> Think I may have got around it with some routing \o/
[17:27] <acheronuk> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
[17:36] <acheronuk> Unity & Mir - RIP
[17:36] <acheronuk> Gnome shell for 18.04 LTS as ubuntu default it seems
[17:39] <ali1234> about time
[17:48] <ali1234> convergence was a terrible idea from the start
[17:49] <zmoylan-pi> i think there's a place for convergence... i'm just not sure anyone will do it right
[17:49] <ali1234> there are basically two types of users, people who don't need a desktop PC, and people for whom a phone isn't anywhere near powerful enough to replace their desktop
[17:49] <ali1234> as a result, convergence is good for nobody
[17:50] <zmoylan-pi> there is a 3rd group... people who can get by with very low spec systems and just want a docking station to add a decent screen and keyboard when not out and about
[17:50] <ali1234> you can do that on android, it works fine
[17:50] <zmoylan-pi> i've wanted such a system since a company played around with one for psion 5's back in the day
[17:50] <ali1234> there's no need for convergence
[17:50] <zmoylan-pi> android is an os i just don't trust
[17:51] <zmoylan-pi> ditto chromeos
[17:51] <ali1234> then you shouldn't trust ubuntu phones either, since they run on the same backend
[17:51] <zmoylan-pi> true and i wouldn't have
[17:51] <ali1234> did you read that story about hacking broadcom's baseband?
[17:51] <ali1234> that's the danger zone, not the android UI
[17:52] <knightwi1e> hey everyone
[17:52] <ali1234> i just hope that canonical can knock some sense into the gnome desktop
[17:53] <ali1234> i might finally be able to use it if they can
[17:54] <ali1234> i'll probably just keep on using xfce though :)
[17:55] <acheronuk> I'm not shifting from KDE ;)
[18:36]  * zmoylan-pi will stick with xubuntu
[18:37]  * brobostigon sticks with either xmonad oe i3wm, :)
[18:38] <brobostigon> i3 is prefferred.
[18:39]  * zmoylan-pi seems to be spending more time in tmux these days... :-)
[18:39] <brobostigon> :D
[18:39] <zmoylan-pi> none of this namby pamby wishy washy fluffy wuffy guis.... :-P
[18:40] <foobarry> wow big news
[18:40]  * brobostigon likes zmoylan-pi :)
[18:40] <zmoylan-pi> it is a real pity if not unexpected for the ubuntu phone
[18:40] <foobarry> i was discussing with a colleague the other day. how much time had been spent on disruptive projects
[18:41] <foobarry> and they should can mir, unity and align more closelyon making something awesome
[18:41] <foobarry> gnome3 is the only thing that sucks harder than unity though :P
[18:42] <brobostigon> infact, gnome-shell does the tiling which i like from i3wm.
[18:44] <foobarry> how many man-years have just been binned that could have been spent on working together on stuff?
[18:45] <zmoylan-pi> it's not linux unless you fork early and often :-)
[18:45] <foobarry> while i agree its a good decision , decisions along the way such as mir have made this more seismic
[18:46] <foobarry> canonical will surely have much more resources free to make a great desktop that were being wasted on making slow progress
[18:46] <zmoylan-pi> aren't they just redirecting all their efforts into the current fad of iot?
[18:47] <brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: there might be a reason why my fiance convinced me to test out an openbsd install on her, after her doing her own reser
[18:47] <brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: there might be a reason why my fiance convinced me to test out an openbsd install on her, after her doing her own research.
[18:47] <zmoylan-pi> i do intend at some point to give slaceware a spin...
[18:48]  * brobostigon likes a simplest debian install.
[18:50] <foobarry> unity sent me away from ubuntu. hopeful for what happens next
[18:51] <zmoylan-pi> unity sent me running screaming towards xubuntu.  it was a short sprint... :-)
[18:51] <foobarry> realising you have made a mistake is beginning of wisdom
[18:52] <foobarry> and acting on it takes balls
[18:53] <foobarry> what happened to that debian on phone project?
[18:53] <foobarry> maru os
[18:54] <foobarry> shuttleworth's page has melted
[18:55]  * zmoylan-pi holds out for emacos for phones :-P
[19:02] <foobarry> the funny thing is, the cheapest solution is also the best in terms of making most linux desktop users happy. don't alienate
[19:03] <daftykins> yip, so going out on their own with new projects all the time harms things
[19:03] <foobarry> provide some nice tweaks to the common desktop and push them upstream, and provide the best theme etc that everyone will want to use
[19:12] <foobarry> anyone heard from popey ?
[19:14] <daftykins> seen him speak today, definitely alive :>
[19:16] <popey> hello
[19:16] <popey> mostly been chatting on telegram where every channel has been on fire
[19:17]  * brobostigon has been following ubuntu phone pebble on telegram.
[19:19] <brobostigon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzORnRVZDkM
[19:19] <brobostigon> :)
[19:27] <foobarry> are there any more insights in addtiion to what shuttles has revealed?
[19:28] <foobarry> will they make gnome3 suck less or just stick with defaults?
[19:30] <foobarry> and why not 17.10?
[19:31] <foobarry> since it's usually considered the beta for the LTS
[19:31] <popey> i would imagine 17.10 would be similar to 18.04
[19:31] <popey> doesn't make sense to land all the new stuff in the LTS
[19:36] <sebsebseb> WOW at the breaking news!
[19:42] <foobarry> i guess the question is will there be new stuff, or mostly stock gnome
[19:43] <foobarry> aren't you mainly doing phone stuff popey atm? you safe?
[19:45] <sebsebseb> foobarry: without unity less of a reason to run ubuntu much less of one, there are other distros that do gnome better
[19:46] <foobarry> au contraire
[19:47] <foobarry> we haven't seen what ubuntu have produced yet. they could do waht they did in the early days and provide compelling reason to use ubuntu over other OS by havng nice tweaks etc
[19:49] <sebsebseb> foobarry: uh the old GNOME 2 patching they used to do, mostly sucked
[20:02] <ali1234> do people actually still run ubuntu for the desktop environment?
[20:02] <ali1234> only reason i still run it is for the archive and the support
[20:03] <ali1234> i'm not going anywhere near fedora
[20:03] <diddledan> so with unity going away, does that mean mir is, too?
[20:03] <brobostigon> debian and openbsd on mine and martners machines.
[20:03] <ali1234> i see ubuntu as debian without the attitude
[20:03] <brobostigon> diddledan: gnome-shell is moving towards using wayland.
[20:03]  * diddledan flames ali1234
[20:04] <ali1234> mir is kind of pointless without unity
[20:05] <sebsebseb> ali1234: I read a blog post bofore about how it could be used by other htings
[20:05] <sebsebseb> but yeah
[20:05] <ali1234> it could be, but why?
[20:05] <sebsebseb> exactly
[20:06] <sebsebseb> ali1234: I am running ubuntu for unity
[20:06] <sebsebseb> in more recent years
[20:06] <sebsebseb> otherwise nope
[20:06] <sebsebseb> GNOME works better in other distros, debatably
[20:06] <sebsebseb> all other interfaces run else where to etc
[20:06] <ali1234> but nothing else does
[20:06] <sebsebseb> some of them debatably are really more user freindly than ubuntu to
[20:07] <ali1234> using proprietary software sucks in any other distro
[20:07] <ali1234> nvidia drivers, skype, steam... ubuntu does them all way better than any other distro
[20:08] <zmoylan-pi> it's kinda the lowest common denominator for linux
[20:08] <zmoylan-pi> if it's gonna only work on 1-2 distros 90% of the time it'll be ubuntu
[20:08] <diddledan> I vote gentoo
[20:08] <diddledan> :-p
[20:09] <daftykins> XD
[20:09] <ali1234> yes, and the other 10% of the time its RHEL 6.2
[20:09] <zmoylan-pi> you have shares in intel diddledan? :-P
[20:09] <daftykins> intel o0
[20:09] <ali1234> anyway, maybe the community will take over unity, and rip out all the bad stuff
[20:09] <diddledan> I wonder whether AMDs neural net branch predictor will benefit or hinder compilation
[20:10] <zmoylan-pi> what would be left? :-P
[20:10] <diddledan> to be fair, though, I don't really understand low-level stuff
[20:10] <ali1234> the launcher is nice
[20:11] <diddledan> the lawn chair? :-p
[20:11] <ali1234> indicators are really good
[20:11] <foobarry> did gnome3 ditch the minimise button?
[20:11] <ali1234> probably
[20:12] <zmoylan-pi> or changed it to a stealth button that appears as far away from the mouse as possible...
[20:13] <ali1234> thinking about it, they'll have to rip out the dash, because it won't work wihtout the server
[20:13] <ali1234> the online bits that nobody likes, anyway
[20:18] <ali1234> the big problem with gnome is it has zero capability to be extended in any way
[20:20] <foobarry> you mean the extensions that crash the system and are generally imcompatible
[20:20] <m0nkey_> In a weird way, I like Unity.
[20:20] <m0nkey_> Never could get on with Gnome3
[20:21] <diddledan> ^ ditto
[20:21] <ali1234> also the lack of multimonitor support
[20:21] <ali1234> but unity is not much better in that respect
[20:22] <sebsebseb> m0nkey_: I ike unity 7 and 8
[20:22] <m0nkey_> Never used multi-monitor in Linux, always a pain to configure.
[20:22] <sebsebseb> but prefer GNOME 3 GNOME Shell really :d
[20:22] <sebsebseb> but been using unity 7 a lot this past year or so
[20:22] <ali1234> i like unity 7 more than i like gnome
[20:22] <sebsebseb> when not on ntablet
[20:23] <sebsebseb> then its 8
[20:23] <ali1234> but i like gnome more than i like unity 8
[20:23] <sebsebseb> unity 7 is easy to use
[20:23] <sebsebseb> a menu down the side on left
[20:23] <sebsebseb> a few idcons on top right
[20:23] <sebsebseb> yep
[20:23] <sebsebseb> GNOME 3 is more flashy but its good like that :)
[20:23] <ali1234> unity 8 is just nonsense
[20:23] <sebsebseb> and unity 8 is good as well,  when you give it apps
[20:23] <sebsebseb> etc
[20:23] <sebsebseb> like on the tablet or on deskto pwith snaps
[20:24] <ali1234> the tablet version of unity 8 is just awful
[20:24] <sebsebseb> no its good
[20:24] <ali1234> everything is done with swiping, there's zero discoverability of anything
[20:24] <sebsebseb> good enough for me
[20:24] <sebsebseb> been using that as my main device for about a year in fact
[20:24] <sebsebseb> but only mostly doing web browisng and email and basic things so yep
[20:24] <ali1234> and all the apps are just web containers
[20:24] <sebsebseb> well there have been some good native apps to
[20:24] <ali1234> half of them are broken because the underlying websites changed etc
[20:25] <sebsebseb> but yes stuff like that caused ssues app problems
[20:25] <ali1234> there's no consistency in the UI
[20:25] <sebsebseb> they should have supporte d android apps really
[20:25] <sebsebseb> like salifsih and tizen
[20:25] <sebsebseb> probably
[20:25] <ali1234> not even in the native bits is there any consistency
[20:26] <ali1234> its half material design, half something that looks like blackberry OS from 2003
[20:26] <ali1234> there was never a convincing developer story wrt SDKs and docs
[20:28] <ali1234> i've said it about a million times before, but they should never have dropped unity 7 Qt version
[20:28] <ali1234> that should have been the main version, and drop compiz
[20:29] <ali1234> unity 7 had loads of problems, but they could have been fixed, instead of wasting time on convergence, that was already proven to be unwanted in the market
[20:29] <ali1234> (multiple times)
[20:30] <zmoylan-pi> it has never been done right in the market...
[20:30] <ali1234> android has a better "convergence" system and all they did was make it support USB mouse and keyboard
[20:30] <zmoylan-pi> convergence feels at the moment like tablets in the 90s
[20:31] <ali1234> zmoylan-pi: yes, literally
[20:31] <ali1234> because it is trying to force things into a wrong UI
[20:31] <zmoylan-pi> technically possible but done so badly as to be useless except for niche applications
[20:31] <sebsebseb> ubuntu tablet and logitech k480 is nice
[20:31] <ali1234> meanwhile android tablets and ipads are amazing now
[20:32] <ali1234> and the reason for this is because they understood that people use tablets for different things than they use desktop PCs for... and therefore its pointless to run the same software on them
[20:32] <zmoylan-pi> tablets sales are shrinking atm aren't they?
[20:32] <ali1234> yes, but only because literally everyone has one
[20:32] <daftykins> a shrink from a lot is a lot
[20:32] <daftykins> *still a lot :D
[20:32] <ali1234> smartphone sales are not shrinking
[20:33] <zmoylan-pi> i'm not so sure... when i game i meet with a bunch of people who all have laptops and keyboards but still drag heavy hardback manuals as they are far superior to any ebook experience
[20:33] <daftykins> those aren't your average folks though, by the sounds
[20:33] <ali1234> manuals, who even uses those any more?
[20:34] <zmoylan-pi> yet the biggest social media reports from last mwc was the nokia 3310 reboot :-)
[20:34] <ali1234> i can't remember the last time i bought something that had more than 2 pages of english instructions
[20:34] <zmoylan-pi> d&d manuals are super important to gamers... i have the pdfs but still read the paper copy as it's faster easier
[20:34] <ali1234> they're generally out of date before the product even ships anyway
[20:36] <ali1234> paper is kill
[20:36] <ali1234> the only time i even use a pen is when i'm writing a christmas or birthday card
[20:37] <zmoylan-pi> even ebook sales are down in some stories i've seen as readers choose paper over ebook.
[20:37] <ali1234> or rolling a cigarette
[20:37] <ali1234> wait, i don't use a pen for that, but you get the idea
[20:37] <zmoylan-pi> but that might be down to ebooks been a pain with drm more than anything else
[20:38] <ali1234> yeah those people buying books are like hipsters buying vinyl
[20:38] <zmoylan-pi> i think i was using a palm device when i first encountered not been able to move a book between devices :-)
[20:38] <ali1234> normal people just don't have the time or space to deal with a large collection of physical media
[20:38] <zmoylan-pi> vinyl sales are doing very well :-)
[20:39] <ali1234> yeah they have a niche market
[20:39] <ali1234> bet most of it never gets played
[20:39] <zmoylan-pi> books are nice when you're in someones place as you can read the titles on the shelves
[20:39] <ali1234> bookshelves are nice to put in the background of your youtube videos, to make yourself look clever :)
[20:40] <zmoylan-pi> won't that block the national flags showing your patrioism?!
[20:42] <ali1234> you can just get loads of books about nationalism, and kill two birds etc
[20:42] <ali1234> but anyway
[20:42] <ali1234> if ubuntu is going all-in on IoT and the cloud, does that mean we can finally get ubuntu for all models of raspberry pi? since that is pretty much the defacto board for linux IoT now?
[20:43] <zmoylan-pi> hmmmmmm. i could get ones with green, white and orange dust jackets and place them so they make a flag...


[01:31] <holmanb> rbasak: Reseting machine-id at runtime would force boot order requirements on all services (present and future) that use machine-id. Do we have an idea of which/how many services this might affect?
[01:46] <lunatiq> in regard to postfix/mailutils to enable mail() on dedicated machine. Do I select Internet Site for each domain or do I create a domain for it?
[01:47] <lunatiq> can I just use local and use it for local use only?
[01:47] <lunatiq> Would that enable scripts on local machine to use mail() ?
[01:59] <blahdeblah_> lunatiq: If all you want is mail on local machine then you can choose local
[03:48] <lunatiq> blahdeblah_ does that mean PHP can use mail() function?
[03:55] <blahdeblah_> lunatiq: I don't know enough about the PHP mail() function to answer that, but if it can be configured to use localhost as its SMTP server, or /usr/bin/mail as its local mailer, then I'd think it would work.
[08:23] <effendy[m]> holmanb: systemctl -t service | nc -l for instance? Services is a broad word.
[08:23] <effendy[m]> broad idea*
[16:09] <Odd_Bloke> holmanb: I guess my response would be that those services doing the wrong thing earlier in boot (due to a stale machine-id) is not a desirable outcome, so it seems irrelevant how many/which services would be affected.
[16:13] <Odd_Bloke> Having said that, I don't see a systemd level dependency on /etc/machine-id in any units on my system, so I don't know if there will be an _easy_ way to do that.
[16:13] <Odd_Bloke> s/do that/determine that set of services/
[16:14] <Odd_Bloke> As a data point, DigitalOcean already have vendor-data to handle resetting machine-id on first boot, because not doing so causes problems.
[16:18] <holmanb> Odd_Bloke: Which services seems relevant in that any that are ordered before cloud-init would have to be restarted with the new machine-id - and really any that use it should probably be explicitly ordered after whichever cloud-init unit would be made to do the runtime rewriting of machine-id.
[16:19] <holmanb> Odd_Bloke: How many services was just a question of the scope that such a change would affect.
[16:22] <Odd_Bloke> holmanb: Ack, understood, thanks!
[17:33] <ahasenack> rbasak: did we ever plan or think about extracting detached orig tarball signatures, if they exist in lp or pristine-tar, when running git ubuntu export-orig ?
[19:37] <rbasak> ahasenack: I was not aware that they exist
[19:38] <ahasenack> I don't know if they are handled by pristine-tar (i.e., ingested), or LP
[19:38] <ahasenack> but every now and then I see a dpkg warning during build that a gpg key exists in the source, but no detached signature
[19:38] <ahasenack> and I think this could be improved, if the .sig files are stored somewhere
[19:38] <rbasak> Sounds reasonable, if they work everywhere else through the pipeline
[19:39] <ahasenack> dpkg-buildpackage seems to check it when building it seems
[19:39] <ahasenack> but I haven't verified. I just saw the warning


[01:31] <lifeless> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/faq.html#is-it-possible-to-deploy-multiple-services-per-machine might need updates
[01:32] <lifeless> links at the bottom of https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/faq.html are broken,obolete too - https://www.jujucharms.com/ and https://juju.ubuntu.com/kanban/dublin.html
[01:33] <lifeless> is there an elasticsearch charm ?
[01:36] <imbrandon> yea
[01:36] <imbrandon> its not in the store yet
[01:37] <imbrandon> but its in the review que
[01:37] <imbrandon> not tried it myself
[01:37] <imbrandon> but i think jorge may have
[01:37] <imbrandon> he was talking about it
[01:37] <imbrandon> there are elb and rds ones as well
[01:37] <imbrandon> both need a tiny bit of polish but function
[01:38] <imbrandon> if you can handle rough edges :)
[01:38] <imbrandon> lifeless: ohh i read that as elasticache
[01:38] <imbrandon> not elasticsearch
[01:38] <imbrandon> no i dont think so
[01:38] <imbrandon> not that i ahve seen tho i havent looked specificly
[01:39] <lifeless> imbrandon: I would love ones for elasticsearch and opentsdb; it may be time for me to get into it :.
[01:39] <imbrandon> btw i found whay looks to be all the info i need for the osx stuff ealier , not time to go over it yet but it looked completish
[01:40] <imbrandon> so ty
[01:40] <imbrandon> hehe yea, elasticsearch would likely be a good starter charm
[01:40] <imbrandon> as its probably going to be simple. most external services that are charmed are
[01:41] <imbrandon> you could see my newrelic charm or clints elb charm as examples
[01:41] <imbrandon> of two and they are both pretty simple
[01:41] <imbrandon> well mine is VERY , like 10 lines of code
[01:41] <imbrandon> but his not much more but still relates etc
[01:43] <imbrandon> but yea to be your first one, thats actually a good idea, a total beginner i might not say that but you have a solid progmatic head on you and are semi familiar with it already ( via just interaction is all i mean )
[01:43] <imbrandon> so i think you should be able to seriosuly pick it upa nd even have it done in an hours time or so
[01:44]  * imbrandon afk
[02:19] <lifeless> btw
[02:19] <lifeless> https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/user-tutorial.html
[02:19] <lifeless> fails to talk the user through environments.yaml config
[02:20] <lifeless> first time I was looking into this stuff, it was -painful- as a result. Fear and confusion all around.
[02:41] <lifeless> https://juju.ubuntu.com/Charms is a little incoherent on 'starting a new charm' - it says to push before describing how to init-repo etc :> {I figured it out, others may be more puzzled}
[03:06] <lifeless> hazmat: your branch generates configs like: Acquire::HTTP::Proxy "{'apt-proxy': 'http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/'}";
[03:06] <lifeless> hazmat: this isn't quite what you intended, I think :)
[03:06] <lifeless> hazmat: not sure if its the cloud-init support, or the juju code yet, looking into it.
[03:12] <lifeless> metadata service claims - 'apt_proxy: {apt-proxy: 'http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/'}'
[03:12] <lifeless> so I think juju
[03:14] <lifeless> definitely: (Pdb) print machine_data
[03:14] <lifeless> {'apt-proxy': {'apt-proxy': 'http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/'}, 'machine-id': '0', 'constraints': <juju.machine.constraints.Constraints object at 0x348c190>}
[03:14] <lifeless> hazmat: also, it looks like you override it if not set, which breaks images with that preconfigured. I will see about fixing that too
[03:38] <lifeless> hazmat: and done - https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/juju/apt-proxy-support/+merge/111763 - for merging into your WIP branch
[04:24] <imbrandon> lifeless: coool ( re: the env.y thing, i'll see if i cant get some clarification there and be a bit more verbose about some of the things that yea it looks to barely touch if at alll even for getting started
[04:24] <imbrandon> ty
[04:25] <imbrandon> if not i'm minimally add a trello task for it so someoe will ( hopefully heh )
[04:26] <lifeless> :)
[04:27] <lifeless> imbrandon: I haven't gotten to actually doing the charm yet, more yak shaving happened.
[04:29] <lifeless> imbrandon: is there a howto for charms? e.g. step-by-step including deploying from local tree ?
[04:36] <imbrandon> 100% complete i'm not sure or optimistic
[04:36] <imbrandon> but i do bet that there is a recorded charm schoool
[04:36] <imbrandon> that does tho
[04:36]  * imbrandon looks for where they are storeed
[04:40] <lifeless> thanks
[04:43] <imbrandon> yea , there are a few listed there it looks like
[04:43] <imbrandon> https://juju.ubuntu.com/CharmSchool
[04:43] <imbrandon> in the webinars
[04:43] <imbrandon> ( skip to the end of the first one to get a list
[04:43] <imbrandon> of all the current and upcomming ones )
[04:44] <imbrandon> after a once over they look to be fairly complete
[04:44] <lifeless> this stuff -really- needs to be in the main docs
[04:44] <lifeless> since we want folk doing it easily.
[04:44] <imbrandon> yea , i am workingf on that , so is jorge and mims
[04:44] <lifeless> cool
[04:44] <lifeless> I realise folk are working hard
[04:44] <lifeless> I guess I'm ensuring that this is on the radar
[04:44] <imbrandon> trying to move EVERYTHING to the docs
[04:45] <imbrandon> yop yup
[04:45] <imbrandon> many and big docs importvements are on most of ours
[04:46] <imbrandon> i know mine and jorges for sure, but client and mims and kapil i know all spend copious ammounts of time on them too at times
[04:46] <imbrandon> heh
[04:46] <imbrandon> i think this last thursday we had clint me kapil mimms jorge and there was one more , or juan
[04:46] <imbrandon> all working on them at the same time
[04:47] <imbrandon> for a good solid 4 to 6 hours
[04:47] <imbrandon> lots done, still lots to do tho :)
[04:47] <imbrandon> hehe
[04:47] <imbrandon> definatly was an intresting time to see that many all at once on a docs setup like we have
[04:47] <imbrandon> :)
[04:48] <imbrandon> jujucharms.com/docs is much more updated thanks to that day too compared to the normal docs
[04:49] <imbrandon> we have a IS ticket in to fix the packages on the one with the main docs but its not completed yet so they are a week or so outdauted but that week saw a metric ton of updates
[04:50] <imbrandon> so hopefully someone can fix it up tomarrow ( just needs -backports enabled and then packages updated that are already installed ) [ if you had a lil weight to get er done quicker that would be awesome and I could fix more faster :P heheh ]
[04:50] <lifeless> whats the RT # ?
[04:50] <imbrandon> umm i need to look in the irc back log, clint filed it
[04:51] <imbrandon> but he told us in the chan about ~18 hours ago
[04:51] <imbrandon> or so
[04:51]  * imbrandon looks quickly
[04:51] <imbrandon> lastlog rt
[04:51] <imbrandon> bah
[04:52] <lifeless> aiee
[04:55] <lifeless> imbrandon: http://jujucharms.com/docs/ is a 403
[04:55] <lifeless> 'fobidden'
[04:56] <imbrandon> nice
[04:56]  * imbrandon pulls the branch to see if its building
[04:57] <imbrandon> not sure wherer the output of the cron build for juju.ubuntu.com/docs is either
[04:57] <imbrandon> if there is one :)
[04:58] <imbrandon> but i know its supose to build them evert 15 min on cron and did for a long time till we broke 0.6.4 and need 1.0+ 1.1.3 is current
[04:58]  * imbrandon checks the build currently uploaded
[05:00] <imbrandon> thurs day we considered "dogfooding" it like mmims brought up ( and good idea i think personally ) to charm ( and this cleanup too ) juju.ubuntu.com and then just redirect the page to it on ec2/hpcloud etc
[05:00] <imbrandon> heh
[05:01] <imbrandon> not sure how far it would "actually" fly if it was attempted
[05:01] <imbrandon> but its worth a thought later :)
[05:34] <imbrandon> lifeless: http://jujucharms.com/docs/ fixed up
[05:36] <imbrandon> made a typo in my last commit :) but that is what the official stite will also look like as soon as builds resume on a newer sphinx than Lucid default ships
[05:36] <imbrandon> :)
[05:37] <imbrandon> and hopefully shuffling some of the content to the docs form juju.ubuntu.com its self also so its all central in one place
[05:38] <imbrandon> ( as well as sexu looking too I think, but just a tad bias, definately easier to read/navigate )
[05:38] <imbrandon> :P
[05:38] <lifeless> did you file the rt #?
[05:38] <imbrandon> clint did
[05:38] <lifeless> s/file/find/
[05:38] <imbrandon> not yet
[05:39] <imbrandon> i am actively looking tho
[05:39] <lifeless> heh
[05:39] <imbrandon> :)
[05:39] <lifeless> ok http://jujucharms.com/docs/write-charm.html is *much* better
[05:39] <lifeless> kudos
[05:40] <imbrandon> :) ty
[05:40] <lifeless> http://jujucharms.com/docs/write-charm.html - uses oneiric
[05:41] <imbrandon> yea there are still many oneiric refs
[05:41] <imbrandon> i am affraid to sed them out
[05:41] <imbrandon> bit mostly that can be done
[05:42] <imbrandon> providers is my next section to hit up hard i think
[05:42] <imbrandon> lots of pain ares there esp with env.y config options etc
[05:43] <lifeless> http://jujucharms.com/docs/write-charm.html doesn't know that revision is a separate file yet either.
[05:44] <imbrandon> nice, so VERY out dated
[05:44] <bkerensa> SpamapS: I think I borked your merge
[05:44] <imbrandon> fixes that one now
[05:44] <imbrandon> bkerensa: nice going slick heh
[05:44] <imbrandon> bkerensa: j/k , something i can help sort ?
[06:01] <imbrandon> your golden, once overed the commit and it looks correct, i'll look closer when i make my next docs commit here in a few myself too
[06:01] <imbrandon> but i'm fairly certain your solid :)
[13:25] <sidnei> SpamapS, added a comment on #920454, seems like precise might be missing some patches on libvirt
[13:25] <_mup_> Bug #920454: juju bootstrap hangs for local environment under precise on vmware <local> <juju:Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/920454 >
[13:43] <SpamapS> sidnei: ahh! good sleuthing.. maybe its already reported in precise?
[13:44] <sidnei> SpamapS, couldn't find a !juju bug for precise no
[13:55] <imbrandon> SpamapS: do you now what these corospond to for HPcloud
[13:55] <imbrandon>     project-id:
[13:55] <imbrandon>     nova-uri:
[13:55] <imbrandon>     auth-mode:
[13:55] <imbrandon> ?
[13:55] <SpamapS> imbrandon: no, I don't even know what that is. :)
[13:55] <imbrandon> openstack hpcloud ( not openstack_s3 ) gonna try pure first ( i hope )
[13:56] <imbrandon> env.y settings
[13:56] <SpamapS> imbrandon: ohhh
[13:56] <imbrandon> i pulled them from conf
[13:56] <imbrandon> but its the only ones i couldent match up
[13:56] <imbrandon> to something i knew
[13:56] <SpamapS> sidnei: Well I do think thats a libvirt problem, and it looks like there might be a patch
[13:56] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I'd suspect auth-mode is sort of an enum
[13:57] <imbrandon> said proj id is a int, wonder if its the tennant id
[13:57] <imbrandon> thats and int
[13:57] <SpamapS> imbrandon: perhaps HPCLOUD will give you those when you get your account?
[13:57] <SpamapS> I've still never signed up
[13:57] <imbrandon> yea i got a whole screen of creadentials
[13:58] <SpamapS> tho with the new ostack provider maybe I will :)
[13:58] <imbrandon> but not sure what they map to, as the name are slightly off, so i was hoping to at leaste get bootstrap wortking doe i could document them
[13:58] <imbrandon> heh
[13:58] <imbrandon> yea i'm trying the ostack provider now
[13:59] <imbrandon> when you do let me know and i'll pastebin my whole env.y and give ya a head start
[13:59] <imbrandon> err if
[13:59] <SpamapS> it shouldn't be this hard
[13:59] <SpamapS> perhaps the provider needs better docs
[14:00] <imbrandon> yea
[14:00] <SpamapS> or HPcloud needs a good slapping if they aren't using the standard terms
[14:00] <imbrandon> there is -0- now, i;'m reading code
[14:00] <SpamapS> oh wtf?
[14:00] <SpamapS> nothing in docs?
[14:00] <imbrandon> well i think they do, i think the provider is off
[14:00] <imbrandon> its a bitdiff than ec2 as well
[14:00] <imbrandon> but yea
[14:00] <imbrandon> -0- docs
[14:00] <sidnei> SpamapS, yes, i agree. so mark the bug as affecting libvirt, invalid in juju? :)
[14:00] <imbrandon> i'm reading source to fig this stuff out
[14:01] <SpamapS> sidnei: I'm not 100% sure its invalid in juju, so I'm waiting to do that
[14:01] <SpamapS> sidnei: there may be a workaround we could apply after all
[14:04] <sidnei> oki
[14:09] <imbrandon> SpamapS: http://cl.ly/HdVH
[14:09] <imbrandon> for your ref too, so you have an idea should you need it in a pinch
[14:10] <SpamapS> imbrandon: I bet tenant-id is project-id
[14:10] <imbrandon> you'll likely have to click it to zoom to read anything and it should be safe to not have to worry about hoarding ( got bits blured )
[14:10] <imbrandon> kk
[14:10] <SpamapS> I remember hearing that the name in the API was up for consideration to be renamed
[14:10] <imbrandon> heh
[14:11] <imbrandon> that page should stay there indefinately too if you wanna bookmark that
[14:11] <imbrandon> for ref later or something
[14:11] <SpamapS> No I think I'll just sign up :)
[14:11] <imbrandon> its actaly my upload account
[14:11] <imbrandon> kk
[14:11] <imbrandon> kool, cuz those other two are optional
[14:12] <imbrandon> so with that i *should* have a full stanza
[14:12] <imbrandon> of pure OSAPI on hpcloud
[14:12] <imbrandon> *crosses fingers and prepares to fail*
[14:13] <SpamapS> Have they at least moved up from Diablo to Essex yet?
[14:13] <imbrandon> no idea
[14:14] <imbrandon> i prettu sire its essex
[14:14] <imbrandon> but dunno how to tell
[14:14] <imbrandon> i'm prtty ignorant on openstack
[14:14] <imbrandon> only have the absolute minimum in my head for uit so far
[14:14] <SpamapS> I don't know how to tell either
[14:14] <imbrandon> really not even  that
[14:14] <imbrandon> heh
[14:15] <imbrandon> thats one reason i'm using hp and not rak, zomg their rest api is the suxors
[14:15] <SpamapS> well, its OSTACK now IIRC
[14:15] <imbrandon> 8 rest calls to create one mysql db on the new mysql service
[14:15] <imbrandon> at rak
[14:15] <imbrandon> nah
[14:15] <imbrandon> not all of it
[14:16] <SpamapS> Oh they're not using red dwarf?
[14:16] <imbrandon> they have joey on half and half , mine only has db access
[14:16] <imbrandon> then i got a toy acct that only has new access
[14:16] <imbrandon> yea no, its all helter skelter in their control pannel right now, feels like aws but with 2 competing back ends
[14:16] <imbrandon> heh
[14:17] <imbrandon> presonaly i would avaoid rak for like a nother month id say and let them settle some dust
[14:17] <imbrandon> heh
[14:19] <imbrandon> btw i do those "full page screenshots + annotations on save" with a BA chrome extension "Awesome Screenshot" heh its perfect to get a whole page when it s like like that
[14:20] <imbrandon> with one click
[14:24] <imbrandon> nova_project_id == tennant name
[14:24] <imbrandon> woot
[14:25] <imbrandon> bah, these forum are such a pita to use, then o grok some of the source to see why, its d7 heh non-custom d7 at that , heh no wonder
[14:26] <imbrandon> :)
[14:26] <imbrandon> these forums == help docs at hpcloud , d7 == drupal 7
[14:27]  * imbrandon gets ready to bootstrap env hpc.1-az.1-regon-a.geo1
[14:27] <imbrandon> wow
[14:30]  * robbiew senses a disturbance in the cloud force...velocity and google IO this week.
[14:30] <imbrandon> heheh
[14:31] <imbrandon> i always love IO but i always like it like 3 weeks late as videos
[14:31] <imbrandon> :)
[14:42]  * m_3 sad to be missing out on both events :(
[15:36] <hazmat> morning
[15:46] <m_3> o/
[16:58] <jimbaker`> SpamapS, , i took a look at the failing test on buildd, juju.lib.tests.test_format.TestPythonFormat.test_dump_load. this test normally takes on the order of 0.001s on my laptop and involves no resources other than a json serializer/deserializer. i just ran it for 10000 loops and i didn't see it explode
[17:00] <jimbaker`> SpamapS, just looking at the test and the code it exercises, i would not expect resource starvation failures. maybe in similar code in test_invoker, which involves processes. but not here
[17:09] <SpamapS> /wi/win 7
[17:10] <SpamapS> arghhh!!
[17:11] <SpamapS> bursty network.. yargh
[17:11] <SpamapS> jimbaker`: So perhaps it is a race of some kind?
[17:12] <jimbaker`> SpamapS, in this specific code, no. twisted can report problems in the wrong place, so that could be the problem
[17:13] <jimbaker`> in terms of the twisted trial test runner
[17:13] <jimbaker`> SpamapS, i assume this failing test is stable?
[17:14] <jimbaker`> as reported on buildd?
[17:17] <SpamapS> jimbaker`: I'm not sure, I'll retry a few of the builds.
[17:18] <SpamapS> jimbaker`: it may have been transient. quantal succeeded on retry
[17:19] <SpamapS> jimbaker`: I'm retrying all the others. If they succeed, we can chalk this up to a buildd problem I think
[17:20] <jimbaker`> SpamapS, again, this is not a test i would expect to fail transiently, since it's not async. but again, it's completely possible for twisted trial to point the wrong finger from some other transient bug
[17:20] <jimbaker`> so given that, i think this is the best strategy for now
[17:20] <sidnei> uhm, is there a 'juju scp' counterpart to 'juju ssh'? if not, it could be handy
[17:21] <jimbaker`> there was one other error reported, which was a zk closing connection problem
[17:21] <jimbaker`> sidnei, yes
[17:22] <jimbaker`> sidnei, just to be clear, juju scp exists, not that would be hypothetically handy ;)
[17:22] <sidnei> ah, i totally missed it in juju --help
[17:33] <SpamapS> sidnei: its quite useful for pulling down modified hooks actually. :)
[17:33] <sidnei> SpamapS, im trying to figure out if i can get rsync to work with that, using 'juju ssh' as the remote shell, but service name has '/' so it gets interpreted as a path instead of a machine name
[17:35] <SpamapS> sidnei: IMO we need a 'juju get-public-hostname' so you can just do rsync `juju get-public-hostname foo/3`:/path/to/file
[17:35] <SpamapS> sidnei: I think juju-jitsu might have that actually
[17:35] <sidnei> ah, that could work too
[17:44] <SpamapS> bkerensa: Hey
[17:45] <SpamapS> bkerensa: that was a pretty MASSIVE merge proposal you merged into lp:juju/docs
[17:45] <SpamapS> bkerensa: I'd have liked to hear more than just your +1 ;)
[19:08] <lifeless> SpamapS: hazmat: morning guys; hope my spam overnight wasn't an issue ;)
[19:09] <imbrandon> heya
[19:09] <imbrandon> SpamapS: whats the rt# for that docs ticket? lifeless would like to know :)
[19:09] <lifeless> hey!
[19:17] <hazmat> lifeless, no that was awesome
[19:17] <hazmat> lifeless, i'm running around today at velocity conf with meetings, i'm going to try and circle back to your branches/bugs this evening.
[19:17] <lifeless> cool, thanks!
[19:17] <lifeless> hazmat: the main one I'd like info on is the use of ip; that could be contentious for reasons other than code.
[19:18] <hazmat> lifeless, yeah.. that changes the display in status as well.
[19:18] <hazmat> lifeless, ideal would be to capture both, and use the appropriate one if the other is missing
[19:18] <lifeless> hazmat: in a good way IMNSHO :)
[19:18] <lifeless> hazmat: <IP_ADDRESS> is much more useful than 'server-2345'
[19:18] <hazmat> lifeless, so do you have a a valid dns name in your context, or is it just ip
[19:18] <hazmat> hmm.. so you have invalid dns names
[19:19] <lifeless> hazmat: I assert that noone running openstack outside of rackspace and perhaps hp has valid public DNS names.
[19:19] <lifeless> hazmat: its not even part of the deploying openstack guidelines yet.
[19:19] <lifeless> let alone labs etc
[19:19] <hazmat> lifeless, but everyone running in a public cloud or maas probably does
[19:20] <hazmat> and for them i would posit its better to have things displayed by name then ip
[19:20] <lifeless> hazmat: public cloud will, maas *may* (if they route DNS to the maas controller)
[19:20] <lifeless> hazmat: maas seed clouds though won't, same issue as openstack.
[19:20] <lifeless> dns will be usable w/in the cloud, but not by machines outside it.
[19:21] <hazmat> lifeless, i've seen and assisted with several maas demos where dns does work fwiw
[19:21] <lifeless> hazmat: from a machine that isn't the cloud controller ?
[19:21] <lifeless> hazmat: because, that machine will be specially configured to use the dnsmasq instance on the controller.
[19:21] <hazmat> lifeless, yes, its a machine on the same network though
[19:22] <hazmat> lifeless, probably
[19:22] <lifeless> I'll match your probably and raise you an almost certainly ;)
[19:22] <lifeless> anyhow, we can gather data if we care.
[19:22] <hazmat> lifeless, no takers :-)
[19:22] <lifeless> I'm not sure that we -care- about the dns name though; what does it offer the user?
[19:23] <hazmat> a nicer symbolic name
[19:23] <hazmat> lifeless, think about configuring a vhost in apache
[19:23] <lifeless> hazmat: have you seen the public names ec2 uses ?
[19:23] <hazmat> or browsing to an app..
[19:23] <hazmat> lifeless, true
[19:23] <lifeless> these are not the same as symbolic names
[19:23] <lifeless> they are bulk loaded static mappings
[19:24] <lifeless> per region
[19:24] <lifeless> such as ec2-184-73-10-99.compute-1.amazonaws.com
[19:25] <hazmat> agreed realistically, true dns management  for services is already separate than the provider dns entries
[19:26] <hazmat> er. a separate concern
[19:30] <hazmat> lifeless, okay i'm convinced
[19:39] <lifeless> hazmat: cool, thanks for taking the time; chat more when you're done @velocity
[19:48] <SpamapS> lifeless: I'm with you on this. The DNS causes more problems than it solves.
[20:04] <negronjl> SpamapS: ping
[20:05] <negronjl> SpamapS: can you give me the commands that you use to run gource with jitsu ?
[20:05] <negronjl> SpamapS: I am trying to show the "pretty deploying stuff screen"
[20:12] <SpamapS> jitsu gource --run-gource
[20:14] <jimbaker`> the gource integration definitely demos well, i used it as part of my demo for usenix two weeks ago. nothing like seeing some good pictures of what's going on
[20:15] <SpamapS> Yeah I really think a web app showing a network diagram will play even better.. if we can ever get such a thing :)
[20:15] <jimbaker`> SpamapS, yes, i'm sure that will be quite nice :)
[20:17] <jimbaker`> it might be nice to also demo the checking off of expectations of jitsu watch, here's how service orchestration happens
[20:38] <lifeless> does one need to wait for a deploy to complete (via status) before doing add-relation ?
[20:39] <lifeless> or will it Just Work if you run add-relation immediately that the deploy returns ?
[20:42] <jimbaker`> lifeless, you can do juju add-relation as soon as you have deployed the two services
[20:42] <lifeless> jimbaker`: as soon as the juju cli returns, you mean ?
[20:43] <jimbaker`> it just works because add-relation records this setup in zookeeper; it's the responsibility of the agents to carry out this policy
[20:43] <lifeless> jimbaker`: right, but deploy returns before the agents are even running
[20:43] <jimbaker`> yes, as soon as the juju cli returns
[20:43] <lifeless> jimbaker`: which is why I'm probing for specifics ;)
[20:43] <jimbaker`> yes, even in that case
[20:43] <lifeless> cool
[20:43] <lifeless> thanks
[20:43] <jimbaker`> because the agents carry out the policy, as recorded as it is in ZK
[20:44] <lifeless> how can one recover from a wedged node ?
[20:44] <lifeless> by which I mean
[20:44] <jimbaker`> lifeless, basically what you see with the juju cli returning is that the update to zk has been made
[20:44] <lifeless> when I run 5 or 6 deploys in quick succession, openstack is throwing a tanty and gets an unspecified 'error' on one of the nodes - it gets an instance id and never comes up
[20:45] <lifeless> How can I tell Juju 'btw that machine, it didn't, so toss it away and start clean'
[20:45] <jimbaker`> lifeless, sounds like a bug with the provider and possibly the provisioning agent
[20:46] <jimbaker`> lifeless, so if you can get the provision agent log (on machine 0), that would be helpful. or use juju debug-log
[20:46] <lifeless> jimbaker`: I'm sure its accentuated for me here and now, local openstack install. *but*, it can happen in e.g. ec2, when service disruption happens, that a reservation request goes into limbo or even fails asynchronously.
[20:46] <lifeless> jimbaker`: the API call to provision the instance fails.
[20:46] <lifeless> bah
[20:46] <lifeless> succeeds*
[20:47] <lifeless> its a cloud backend failure. Async.
[20:47] <jimbaker`> lifeless, it should eventually succeed
[20:47] <jimbaker`> it's a bug if it doesn't
[20:47] <lifeless> To a degree, I agree. Ideally we could say 'its a bug over there, go fix that'
[20:47] <jimbaker`> so some sort of occasional failure is expected
[20:47] <lifeless> but, ^^ that.
[20:47] <lifeless> how do I recover without wiping the whole juju environment of 10 instances
[20:47] <jimbaker`> we just tried to engineer the provisioning agent so that it does appropriate retries
[20:48] <lifeless> jimbaker`: but it doesn't retry if the API call succeeds?
[20:48] <jimbaker`> lifeless, iirc, it does do dead machine detection for cases like that
[20:49] <lifeless> how long does it wait? Perhaps I wasn't patient enough
[20:49] <jimbaker`> lifeless, without logs, i'm afraid i can only speculate :)
[20:49] <lifeless> ok, well I didn't capture any (didn't konw how)
[20:49] <lifeless> juju debug-log; how do I get the provision agent log ?
[20:50] <jimbaker`> lifeless, it should just be there, see https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/user-tutorial.html#starting-debug-log
[20:51] <lifeless> jimbaker`: how do I get the whole log though?I mean, this is some time back presumably... I don't notice instantly.
[20:53] <jimbaker`> lifeless, you can also just grab it from the machine 0 box
[20:53] <lifeless> jimbaker`: thats what I was asking
[20:54] <lifeless> where on the box :)
[20:54] <jimbaker`> lifeless, regrettably i don't have it committed to memory, but i am looking right now
[20:54] <lifeless> thanks; Perhaps a doc patch :>
[20:55] <jimbaker`> /var/log/juju/provision-agent.log
[20:55] <lifeless> cool
[20:55] <lifeless> I will look there next time it happens and see what I can see
[20:55] <lifeless> thank you
[20:56] <jimbaker`> lifeless, sounds good
[20:56] <lifeless> \o/ finally apparently have hdfs + hadoop up, ready to iterate on stuff using it ;>
[20:56] <lifeless> super not-simple
[21:08] <jimbaker`> lifeless, i did check juju debug-log; two things, 1) the check against the flag it sets in ZK executes too late for the provisioning agent upon first install; 2) the PA still does not seem to use debug logging even if restarted. so for now, /var/log/juju/provision-agent.log seems to be the way to go
[21:09] <jimbaker`> also this doesn't mix output, which is probably why i actually use the file when debugging the PA
[21:09] <lifeless> first install - of a new service, or first install of the environment ?
[21:09] <jimbaker`> first install of the environment
[21:09] <jimbaker`> specifically the bootstrap node
[21:09] <jimbaker`> (aka machine 0)
[21:10] <lifeless> that seems hard to avoid, as the zk runs on that node
[21:11] <lifeless> if it fails to come up, ....
[21:16] <jimbaker`> lifeless, actually i'm going to backout that earlier statement. you are going to miss some changes to agent log, but there is a watcher in place for such global en settings (currently only debug log). so it appears to be just a fault of logging the PA log
[21:17] <jimbaker`> lifeless, not certain why, the log setup is fairly generic in terms of adding handlers
[22:22] <lifeless> oh, lalalalalala
[22:22] <lifeless> hazmat: SpamapS: you'll love this:
[22:22] <lifeless> 2012-06-26 10:21:39,616 INFO Connecting to unit hbase-regioncluster-01/0 at server-10.novalocal
[22:22] <lifeless> ssh: Could not resolve hostname server-10.novalocal: Name or service not known
[22:22] <lifeless> (juju ssh)
[22:22] <lifeless> novalocal is the local search domain on the instance, not globally resolvable.
[22:23] <lifeless> INSTANCE        i-0000000a      ami-00000004    server-10       server-10       running         0               m1.small        2012-06-25T20:36:32.000Z        nova                            monitoring-disabled     <IP_ADDRESS>        <IP_ADDRESS>                       instance-store
[22:23] <lifeless> is what the EC2 API returns :>
[22:28] <lifeless> has anyone here worked with the hbase charm? I want to create a table from a different charm, which requires running the hbase binary (which is only on hbase units...)
[22:38] <SpamapS> lifeless: double doh on the IP vs hostname
[22:41] <lifeless> SpamapS: the rabbit hole gets deeper :) To me, this validates my first point :> Also, split view DNS sucks.
[22:45] <SpamapS> lifeless: split view DNS is just a relic of the way EC2 has done things..
[22:46] <SpamapS> lifeless: you know, there's an openstack provider in review right now..
[22:46] <SpamapS> lifeless: have you been able to try it out?
[22:46] <lifeless> SpamapS: nope
[22:47] <lifeless> SpamapS: I'm not actually trying to hack on juju at all, just use it ;)
[22:47] <lifeless> SpamapS: so I'm running precise, etc; just keep hitting yak shave events.
[22:47] <lifeless> SpamapS: what I *want* to do, is try out opentsdb
[22:47] <lifeless> and logstash (with elasticsearch)
[22:47] <SpamapS> oh right
[22:48] <SpamapS> lifeless: but you're also trying it against a local openstack.....
[22:48] <SpamapS> which.. complicats matters. :)
[22:48] <lifeless> SpamapS: a little
[22:48] <lifeless> but shouldn't break charms as inside the stack dns work
[22:48] <lifeless> s
[22:49] <lifeless> its just the outside thing, exactly like canonistack
[22:49] <SpamapS> yeah
[22:51] <lifeless> e.g.
[22:51] <lifeless> ubuntu@server-8:~$ host server-8.novalocal
[22:51] <lifeless> server-8.novalocal has address <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:51] <lifeless> and
[22:51] <lifeless> ubuntu@server-8:~$ host server-9.novalocal
[22:51] <lifeless> server-9.novalocal has address <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:51] <lifeless> so hbase's tools decided they couldn't find the master.
[22:53] <SpamapS> lifeless: I assume the relationship sets up the necessary configs for that?
[22:53] <lifeless> http://jujucharms.com/charms/precise/hbase
[22:53] <lifeless> I followed the bouncing ball there
[22:54] <lifeless> juju deploy hbase hbase-master
[22:54] <lifeless> juju deploy hbase hbase-regioncluster-01
[22:54] <lifeless> juju deploy zookeeper hbase-zookeeper
[22:54] <lifeless> juju add-relation hbase-master hbase-zookeeper
[22:54] <lifeless> juju add-relation hbase-regioncluster-01 hbase-zookeeper
[22:54] <lifeless> juju deploy --config example-hadoop.yaml hadoop hdfs-namenode
[22:54] <lifeless> juju deploy --config example-hadoop.yaml hadoop hdfs-datacluster-01
[22:54] <lifeless> juju add-relation hdfs-namenode:namenode hdfs-datacluster-01:datanode
[22:54] <lifeless> juju add-relation hdfs-namenode:namenode hbase-master:namenode
[22:54] <lifeless> juju add-relation hdfs-namenode:namenode hbase-regioncluster-01:namenode
[22:54] <lifeless> juju add-relation hbase-master:master hbase-regioncluster-01:regionserver
[22:54] <lifeless> ^ is exactly what I ran
[22:54] <lifeless> with a minute or so between deploys
[22:54] <lifeless> and nothing between relation adding
[22:54] <lifeless> (sorry for the Spam)
[22:56] <SpamapS> why minutes between deploys?
[22:56] <SpamapS> You should have been able to run all of the deploys all at once
[22:56] <SpamapS> and all the relations
[22:56] <SpamapS> and then wait for everything to finish. :)
[22:58] <lifeless> SpamapS: see my chat with jimbaker` above about vagaries of local stack deploys with one compute node
[22:59] <lifeless> something whinges when I allocate 32GB of ram etc all in one batch
[23:01] <SpamapS> lifeless: I see. Thats a bit disappointing given how "scalable" openstack is supposed to be...
[23:01] <lifeless> well
[23:02] <lifeless> I mean, I have one node here with 16GB ram
[23:02] <lifeless> but yes, there is some glitch in there, and I've already shaved enough yaks on this exercise.
[23:02] <lifeless> the local install is v useful considering latency to canonistack, f'instance
[23:03] <SpamapS> indeed
[23:03] <SpamapS> lifeless: I think a native OpenStack provider, and more people banging on OpenStack's with juju, will help this go a lot more smoothly.
[23:04] <lifeless> well, I'm beyond that bit, workarounds R us.
[23:06] <lifeless> SpamapS: whats a good charm that knows how to create db's on demand ?
[23:07] <lifeless> I presume the wordpress <-> mysql pair does that ?
[23:09] <jimbaker`> lifeless, that pairing would be a good choice
[23:11] <lifeless> jimbaker`: my suspicion/concern is that it does that using the network protocol
[23:11] <lifeless> hmmm
[23:11]  * lifeless needs to know more hbase ops
[23:13] <jimbaker`> lifeless, i'm not certain what you mean by that re "network protocol".  i will say that it does an exchange of relation settings to accomplish the desired service orchestration
[23:15] <lifeless> hah
[23:15] <lifeless> so schema details
[23:15] <lifeless> I'd be surprised if schema migrations were passed via zk
[23:15] <lifeless> rather than directly.
[23:15] <lifeless> where directly == connect to the mysql network port.
[23:17] <jimbaker`> lifeless, the theory of juju, if there is one ;), is that this is outside of the scope of the charm, unless orchestration is required
[23:17] <jimbaker`> not trying to reinvent how mysql coordinates, just solve certain issues
[23:17] <lifeless> jimbaker`: sure
[23:17]  * hazmat pauses from juju talk to catchup
[23:17] <lifeless> its orchestration though
[23:17] <lifeless> schema application + upgrades is a massive orchestration issue
[23:18] <jimbaker`> lifeless, then i can see that under the scope of the charm
[23:18] <lifeless> including the trivial-enough first-bringup case.
[23:18] <lifeless> the charm needs to facilitate it
[23:18] <lifeless> which is what I'm trying to figure out for hbase :
[23:18] <lifeless> >
[23:19] <jimbaker`> so if the services need to coordinate on add-relation/remove-relation or add-unit/remove-unit, then sure, use juju there
[23:20] <lifeless> I think we're talking past each other
[23:21] <SpamapS> lifeless: the charm gets you credentials and a place to connect to. But no doubt, if a relationship is more specific, schema details and dependencies across multiple charms could be orchestrated very easily.
[23:21] <SpamapS> lifeless: such a thing just has yet to surface yet.
[23:22] <jimbaker`> lifeless, in particular, this can be done through an advanced form of service orchestration, which orchestrates with respect to relations. adam_g has been doing this for the openstack charms fwiw
[23:23] <jimbaker`> lifeless, you might need to do this. i guess we just need to settle on something concrete to say one way or the other :)
[23:25]  * hazmat gets back to the audience questions
[23:55] <zirpu> velocity talk went well. woot
[23:57] <m_3> whoohoo!


[15:43] <hannie> hi hobgoblin
[15:43] <hobgoblin> hi hannie - how's things
[15:44] <hannie> working hard ;)
[15:44] <hannie> A question:
[15:44] <hobgoblin> go on :)
[15:44] <hannie> Is this the latest verson: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ForumWikiTeam/ImportTool
[15:45] <hobgoblin> yes
[15:45] <hobgoblin> unless bodhi has updated it and not told me
[15:45] <hannie> ok, thanks
[15:46] <hannie> It was a while ago since I last used it, so I just wanted to check
[15:46] <hobgoblin> it's certainly the version I am using here :)
[15:46] <hobgoblin> aah - ok - nothigng recent has changed
[15:46] <hannie> right
[15:47] <hobgoblin> how goes it in manual land? due out soon is it?
[15:48] <hannie> yes, June 30. Finishing touch now, checking comments from proofreaders
[15:48] <hannie> and if they are valid I make the changes and push them to Launchpad
[15:48] <hobgoblin> cool
[15:49] <hannie> Kevin is "out of town", but he said he will release the Precise version on time
[15:49] <hobgoblin> :)
[15:49] <hannie> how's the forumstowiki going?
[15:50] <hannie> I was just going to start reading some tutorials from the forums
[15:50] <hannie> Is that still useful, or have they all been wikified by now?
[15:50] <hobgoblin> going well - I'm still behind like the proverbial
[15:50] <hobgoblin> there's not much left on the import list now
[15:51] <hannie> ok, but there are tutorials to be put on the import list I guess
[15:51] <hobgoblin> time for a trawl of the forum again I'd say
[15:51] <hobgoblin> yea
[15:51] <hannie> ok, back to work then :)
[15:51] <hobgoblin> :)
[15:52] <hannie> When you hear me sigh it's because I do not know what to do with a certain tutorial ;)
[15:55] <hobgoblin> LOL]
[15:56] <hobgoblin> flag it on the import list = put a note against it or in here or something :)
[15:56] <hannie> will do
[15:56] <hobgoblin> or even the m/list of course
[16:00] <hannie> Do I have the right Pages For Import: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pages%20For%20Import
[16:03] <hobgoblin> yep
[16:04] <hannie> ok, thanks
[16:04] <hobgoblin> you might not be aware of a change on the forum - people can only edit posts for a week - which means that they can't update tutorials anymore
[16:04] <hannie> aha, didn't know that
[21:24] <Sofox> Hello everyone, due to the change in edit status, I need to move my list of crowdefunded Linux games into the Wiki: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1945254
[21:25] <cortman> Not a problem Sofox
[21:25] <Sofox> That's great, but I'm not sure whereabouts to put it.
[21:26] <Sofox> So are there guildlines I need to follow with where to put it?
[21:27] <cortman> Would you want to do the converting yourself or have one of us on the team do it?
[21:28] <cortman> I may be able to get it converted this evening (1 hour) and give you a link to edit it
[21:28] <Sofox> Oh that would be awesome!
[21:28] <Sofox> Would you really do that?
[21:28] <cortman> Absolutely. :)
[21:28] <cortman> I get off of work in about an hour- can have it done then.
[21:30] <Sofox> Thank you so much, as long as it's not too much trouble.
[21:31] <cortman> None at all. I'll also send you links on how to edit with moinmoin- it's a little more tricky than the forums, but quite manageable.
[21:31] <cortman> I'll PM you the links- could I have a link to your forums profile?
[21:32] <Sofox> I've edited a few wikis before so I shouldn't be too out of my depth. Thank you so much for this.
[21:32] <Sofox> Sure: http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=1083482
[21:33] <cortman> Thanks- sounds great. :)
[21:33] <cortman> Thanks for being willing to do the transfer.
[21:35] <Sofox> No problem, I figure it's best to do this and keep the list going then... well, the alternative..
[21:37] <cortman> For sure.
[23:55] <bodhi_zazen> wb cortman