[09:13] <switchtehbeat> I know I keep asking questions but I'm still learning. how do I take a screenshot of a window in Lubuntu? instead of the whole screen?
[09:17] <JohnDoe_71Rus> http://shutter-project.org/ http://code.google.com/p/screengrab-qt/  scrot -s file.png then click to window
[09:20] <testdr> switchtehbeat: sometimes in lubuntu (lxde) is the hotkey already configured, its  alt+print to make a screenshot of the acitve window
[09:23] <switchtehbeat> testdr, that worked! you're awesome. :D
[09:23] <switchtehbeat> JohnDoe_71Rus, thanks
[09:29] <testdr> switchtehbeat: there are a lot of links with usage-storys about lxde, openbox, lubuntu - just use google to search for those keywords and you get the points, where to look in your local conifg-files or how to change some things --- and dont forget, create a test-user to play with desktopsettings and use it for your main-user only after such tests.
[09:44] <switchtehbeat> thanks m8, I do have 1 more question....is there something like rainmeter on windows but for lubuntu?
[09:45] <testdr> conky .. or ?grell (name a bit different - dont remember right)
[09:46] <testdr> for conky check: http://conky.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html
[09:47] <testdr> and there are a lot more with really fancy desktop-settings, like in circles, on background, in bar-style etc.
[09:50] <switchtehbeat> thanks
[09:50] <switchtehbeat> looks good :) conky that is :)
[09:55] <JohnDoe_71Rus> http://gkrellm.srcbox.net/
[09:59] <testdr> danke JohnDoe_71Rus, wusste den Namen nicht mehr genau
[12:05] <akis> hi all. what is the usual size of a freshly install 14.04 lubuntu system?
[12:07] <testdr> around 3-4 GB
[12:08] <testdr> its less than 3GB if no updates or special languages
[12:09] <akis> fine. and how can i check this siza? i mean is there special command for it?
[12:10] <testdr> no - and yes - this depends on the used filesystem - like for the live-version, there is all in a compressed filesystem in less than 1GB
[12:13] <akis> testdr: can i give a terminal's command to check the size of my file system to check if it is under 4gb?
[12:16] <testdr> akis: this sounds to me, like you have no idea about partition-size, filesystem-size and commands like df or du
[12:18] <testdr> akis: last there is a slight difference in size between the i386 and 64bit-amd versions
[12:19] <akis> testdr: i read about df -h. i would like to know just my /root size,nothing else beyond this. to find out partition size, or the of whole disk is very easy and they are many tools to help me. is df -h enough to give this information?
[12:19] <testdr> akis: yes and no - i doubt you want to do something completely different and dont say it
[12:21] <akis> testdr: i want to check the usual size to exclude the possibility that a big dir (4g) was moved by mistake in /root
[12:24] <testdr> akis: sudo  du  -s   /root
[12:25] <testdr> and check:   man   du
[12:25] <testdr> for more infos
[12:26] <akis> ok thanks for your advises.
[12:31] <akis> testdr: i check my xubuntu system (lubuntu runs in another system and i will check it later) and the command sudo  du  -s   /root returns: 44	/root. what does it mean?
[13:14] <akis> !screenshots
[13:17] <akis> hi all. how is this explained? http://imgur.com/Nhweqih,djpdhgf . the whole used size of disk is 38GB and /home alone is 41 ! what happens here?
[13:24] <testdr> akis: one posssible solution, you check what links are.
[13:31] <akis> testdr: what you mean?
[13:34] <akis> testdr: could you please explain to me whta you mean?
[13:36] <testdr> akis: sorry, im no computer-lesson-teacher, only dumb user, you may check:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparse_file  and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ln_%28Unix%29
[13:39] <akis> testdr: i beg your pardon if i bothered you. as i 20+ years chat user, i know that here we are discussing if we want. if we dont we just dont. this better than trying to "teach" each other. have a nice day my friend.
[13:40] <testdr> opps - this is a discussion channel, sorry
[13:42] <akis> this is a chat chennel where many times no experts ask more expert if they can kindly explain and give solutions. i am very sorry if i asked something not in the right way.
[13:44] <testdr> im very sorry, that i have no clue what you store in your home-directory and how - maybe the nsa knows more?
[13:44] <akis> and i think that noone is obliged to answer to any help request. if he know and if he can help, he answers.
[13:46] <akis> i am not an expert but i am just wondering how /home is bigger than the whole system. maybe in pc's and OS's world there is an explanation. i am looking for this explanation because i have a special reason.
[13:52] <testdr> akis: do you think (i try to read brain) you have deleted files and the free space did not show up for those files?
[13:53] <testdr> akis: then it could be those files are only gone to the wastebasket and you have to empty this
[13:53] <akis> testdr: first of all thank you for your time today. yesterday on my freshly installed system i had a problem. do you have more time to explain it here?
[13:54] <akis> testdr: (my basket is empty) but maybe we 're close to find something. can i explain to you?
[13:54] <testdr> akis: you ask and if someone has an answer or tip - you will get one
[13:59] <akis> testdr: you have right. well...have a look here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8233669/
[14:10] <testdr> akis: first check the usage, like this: 1.  du  -sh   /home          and 2.   du   -sh    /home/*
[14:13] <akis> testdr: do i have to use sudo. i have more than one accounts and the system returns me 'access denied'
[14:13] <testdr> and only to not forget it, your used "mv-command" was wrong, cause the usage of "*" does not take the hidden-files (aka dot-files).
[14:13] <testdr> akis: then you have to use sudo
[14:14] <akis> testdr: i used it already. it gaves me 21g for 1st account, 4,7g for 2nd and hanged on 3rd for unknown reason but i know that is 1,8 g counted with pcmanFM
[14:16] <testdr> akis: pls. exec those two commands and paste the result in the pastebin
[14:16] <testdr> akis:and if the command cannot run (you say lasts forever), then there is something wrong with this part
[14:16] <akis> testdr: i used it already. it gaves me 21g for 1st account, 4,7g for 2nd and hanged on 3rd (finished after some secs) 1,9 g= total 27,6g
[14:17] <akis> testdr: ok i will past them soon, wait
[14:17] <testdr> akis: you still missed the first command
[14:18] <akis> testdr: i gave it. it returned me (with sudo) 55g !!!
[14:19] <akis> testdr: paste.ubuntu.com/8233810/
[14:24] <testdr> akis: now try another du, that may produce a long list, so for the second run, you can pipe it into less.   The command is:   sudo  du  -Sh  /home
[14:25] <testdr> akis: or first do a      sudo    ls   -la   /home
[14:27] <akis> testdr: the first command returns all dirs?
[14:28] <akis> and theri size?
[14:28] <testdr> yes - therfore you may first try the second - we may need the first one so you can see where is what
[14:29] <testdr> if you use encrypted user-home-dirs, there should/could be some hidden files, like .ecryptfs in the /home
[14:30] <akis> i run the 1st with  sudo  du  -Sh  /home/* and i took infos for the other accounts too. as fas as i can see there is no where double files (the missing ones).
[14:30] <testdr> akis: that was not my command -- you did add an * asterisk
[14:30] <testdr> and a slash
[14:30] <akis> yes, i did!
[14:30] <testdr> and why?
[14:32] <testdr> an asterisk in the shell will only work for non-hidden-files and if we look for hidden files, we would never notice those
[14:33] <akis> look i count...sudo du -sh /home/* gives me 21+4,7+1,9=27,6 * 2 (encryption)= 55,2 = what gives sudo du -sh /home. have i right?
[14:34] <akis> sudo  du  -Sh  /home/* returned me hidden too!
[14:44] <testdr> akis: you are the user-name "user"?
[14:45] <akis> yes i am
[14:46] <testdr> akis: then its possible you cannot see the duplicate date as long as you logged in, because the later copied data is mounted over the old one. You should use a ubuntu-live-version and mount the partition and do the checks from there
[14:46] <testdr> s/date/data/
[14:47] <testdr> akis: another solution is, you create a second admin-user and use this account to do the checks for your "user" home-directory, when it is not de-encrypted
[14:48] <testdr> akis: you have to logout as the user to have the data only in the normal encrypted - not-readable way
[14:48] <akis> hmm. i thought about this (to use a live usb) but how can i access the encrypted accounts?
[14:49] <testdr> akis: you dont -- create now another user (name it "admin2") with admin-rights, then logout and login with this user-name. Then your home-directory is not over-mounted with the encrypted data
[14:52] <akis> is it maybe a solution to delete all accounts and re-configure them? i have all my data in a sd card.
[14:52] <testdr> akis: for explanation:  if i have a subdirectory with 4GB data in it and i do a mount of another disk-part on this subdirectory, then the old data seems to be gone, but it is not, it will still use the space but will only visible if the mount is not active. For your encrypted home-directory, as long as you logged in the over-mounted (old data from wrong mv) could not be seen.
[14:53] <testdr> akis: no (and yes - its not easy), if you use encrypted filesystems ecryptfs -- there should be a in deeper explanation about it in the wiki
[14:54] <akis> testdr: i understand. you are on this! i was near but i could understand what is happening. you explain to me.
[14:55] <testdr> ecryptfs is nice, but a pain if you change usernames and have to move it around, because you have to take into account if it is encrypted or not and you cannot mix those
[14:55] <akis> testdr: is there any other way to see on my /home beyond the possibility to make a new account?
[14:56] <testdr> like you already thougt - from a live version you may see the files from the mv-command and those from the later cp-command
[14:56] <testdr> but only encrypted
[14:58] <akis> explain me something. i got that the all 3 accounts have 27 g . The missing are counting on this amount?
[14:58] <testdr> akis: i would suggest, use a second admin-user and with your old user logout, check with the second admin-user the diskusage of the home/directory
[15:01] <akis> when i choose to delete the new account it will be deleted with no remains?
[15:01] <akis> no left over i mean?
[15:01] <testdr> i dont understand - again, you have to check the pure filesystem and not the one encrypted for your user - that is annother mount and may hide data
[15:02] <testdr> akis: yes and no -- there is an option to delete the home-dir-data and all data that the user owns (last is risky because a lot of users are never aware where they store data)
[15:05] <akis> i am creating a new user: user_test. how can i give the admin privileges?
[15:08] <akis> ok i founfd it
[15:08] <testdr> akis: (i get tired typing the wiki) you create a new user with the graphical user-administration and change the account type to admin
[15:09] <holstein> you can search for and remove whatever files you choose
[15:09] <holstein> the users /home should be left there
[15:11] <akis> ok. i am trying to fix it. i will need your help soon.
[15:15] <holstein> akis: fix what?
[15:16] <akis> testdr: i am in user's account but i dont see something unusual
[15:16] <holstein> akis: i think you are misunderstanding how i am trying to respond to your requests for a "fix", friend.. if you remove a user, the files stay.. there is no need for a fix for that
[15:16] <akis> holstein: sorry not fix, create
[15:17] <holstein> akis: create what? a new user? sudo adduser is what i use
[15:17] <testdr> akis: what das the "sudo du -sh /home" now shows
[15:18] <testdr> akis: and how can you see into the user-home-directory, when it now should be encrypted?
[15:18] <akis> testdr: type them on user_test terminal?
[15:18] <testdr> yes
[15:19] <akis> "sudo du -sh /home" now shows 55 g. the same as before. i changes the privileges of user so i can see it form user_test. am i right?
[15:21] <holstein> i dont
[15:21] <holstein> if i want to "see" some users files, i'll just use sudo momentarily..
[15:23] <testdr> akis: do a:    sudo   du  -sh    /home/\.??*
[15:24] <akis> testdr: 28 g /home/.ecryptfs
[15:24] <testdr> akis: now do a:    sudo   du  -sh   /home/*
[15:25] <testdr> and count the sum of both -- different directorys
[15:26] <akis> 21g+4,7g+1,9g+476k=28 the same as before plus the new account
[15:26] <testdr> akis: arghh -- is the .ecryptfs in this list? ..
[15:27] <akis> command not found!
[15:28] <holstein> !paste | akis
[15:28] <testdr> akis: you have already typed the command and posted some lines above the size of .ecryptfs
[15:29] <akis> ah ... not just the accounts. 3+1 accounts. no .ecryptfs
[15:29] <testdr> akis: if you use an ecrypted user-home-directory and it is not decrypted (the user not logged in), then there should be not very much - only a few fiels with text-hint that this is encrypted data
[15:31] <akis> you mean that the accounts aren't encrypted?
[15:31] <testdr> akis: you have around 28GB in different user-home-directorys and again around 28GB in the /home/.ecryptfs directory  -- thats a sum of about 56GB
[15:31] <akis> thats right. i mentioned already.
[15:32] <testdr> akis: i dont know - i dont sit at your computer - you only tell me you used another admin-account and then you should not be able to view the encrypted data of other users (if this is encrypted)
[15:32] <holstein> akis: the accounts are encrypted if you encrypt them
[15:32] <holstein> !encryption
[15:33] <testdr> and encryption is done with the login of this user and they are viewable as long as the user is active(and did not logout)
[15:34] <akis> if i use a live cd to see them i cannot. i can see on these account because i changed the privileges of the account. i dont know if this is right or not
[15:34] <testdr> encryption is not the same like to have no privileges!
[15:36] <akis> ok understand that, but if where encrypted and there was not possibility to have any access on them why i create the new account?
[15:36] <holstein> akis: you are not *supposed* to be able to see them..
[15:36] <testdr> akis: if your user "user" (why did you select this name? To make riddles) is not logged in - then you should see only the hint-files like: Access-Your-Private-Data.desktop -> /usr/share/ecryptfs-utils/ecryptfs-mount-private.desktop
[15:39] <akis> when i am trying to access the "encrypted" accounts through a live-cd i can see the /home but no access is permitted on it. is that a sign of encryption?
[15:39] <testdr> akis: no! Use sudo
[15:40] <holstein> akis: you are not *intended* to access those
[15:40] <testdr> akis: why do you think the stupid-ubuntu-live-user has default admin-right like superuser root?
[15:40] <holstein> akis: http://www.howtogeek.com/116297/how-to-recover-an-encrypted-home-directory-on-ubuntu/
[15:41] <holstein> depending on what is the intended purpose, i would just login to the user account and get the data i need.. i would have an unencrypted copy on a *seperate* external hard drive
[15:41] <akis> testdr: sudo and what to access them?
[15:41] <testdr> akis: you should take a brake and read the last link from holstein - maybe you get the trick and why you sometimes move in circles
[15:42] <holstein> akis: its not only sudo.. its *quite* involved. you encrypted your /home to prevent the access you are trying to facilitate
[15:42] <testdr> akis: sudo is a command to execute other command with different rights
[15:42] <holstein> !sudo
[15:44] <akis> so what is the result of all these?
[15:44] <testdr> holstein: from what i did understand - it looks like akis has moved data (around 20GB) into his encrypted home-directory and later after login, the data was gone, because the encrypted data is mounted over his home.
[15:45] <holstein> testdr: oh, i remember now.. the first i heard about this days ago there was no encryption envolved with the process
[15:45] <holstein> testdr: i dont mean to step on your toes at all, i just noticed the circling around
[15:46] <testdr> but the data is still there - it is only not visible as long as he is logged in.  He has du about 21GB of his not decrypted home-directory and over 20GB of the .encryptfs-dir, that is used if he logs in
[15:46] <holstein> akis: this may just be a learning experience for you.. you seem to be having issues with encyption.. i suggest not using it
[15:46] <akis> i reboot the system and now i dont have permission to user although i gave the privileges.
[15:46] <holstein> akis: if i wanted to "recover" data, i would try the tool i suggested before.. testdisk.. i would use the guide i linked above to get into the encrypted /home from a live CD, or just install testdisk in the installation
[15:47] <holstein> akis: yo udont *need* permission like that.. thats not the problem
[15:47] <akis> the first time i used encryption was manually on 12.04 . now on 14.04 i choosed auto but you return me that it doesnt work
[15:47] <holstein> akis: no one has returned you that it doesnt work
[15:48] <holstein> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step is what i would use if files were freshly deleted
[15:48] <testdr> akis: it works - but you broke your setup - you did data-change without taking the encryption into account.
[15:48] <akis> dear friend during installation the user (exxpert or not) he just make a click. then everything is automatic. isnt it?
[15:48] <holstein> but, in the future, you need to have backups.. and on different drives.. you should have that *before* moving any data like that
[15:48] <testdr> no - nothing is automatic.
[15:48] <holstein> and, dont move the data.. just copy
[15:49] <akis> testdr: why ? because i gave a mv commad?
[15:50] <testdr> akis: yes - the mv did not move into the encrypted home-directory
[15:50] <holstein> akis: that is correct.. you *dont* move your files like that.. its why you lost them
[15:51] <holstein> akis: you dont need to move them.. you should, in the future, *not* move them, but, just copy them, to a seperate drive
[15:51] <testdr> akis: it did mv into a user-directory like it is without encryption - thats why you as user cannot see the data.
[15:52] <holstein> sudo doesnt "break" that encyption..
[15:52] <holstein> akis: everything is working properly..
[15:53] <akis> holstein: dear friend. the other days i complain about slow internet and many of you told me that something is not right in my system. finally you to go to a chat room for my native language. i google enough and i found many usesrs they complain for slow internet and the problem was ipv6. and i can report that the same problem i had on both my systems under xubuntu and lubuntu and i solve it googling.
[15:54] <holstein> akis: that could have also been taken care of on your network..
[15:55] <holstein> akis: still, im glad you got your system internet working.. the fact here is, sudo doesnt break encryption.. and you dont have anything that is functioning improperly to fix
[15:55] <holstein> akis: you have *many* suggestions above to try to access the information you mv'd incorrectly
[15:55] <akis> holstein: ok, i cannot say no, but i didnt have the problel running 12.04 on the same machines and the same network and provider and router. so what?
[15:56] <holstein> akis: this is just volunteer support, friend.. there are no guaratnees or promises.. i am a volunteer
[15:57] <akis> i am glad too i make my machine running fast. i appreciate your voluntiaring efforts (excuse me for my english)
[15:57] <holstein> akis: your machine was *always* running fast
[15:58] <akis> i appreciate them very very much and thats why i am here.
[15:58] <holstein> akis: may i suggest a native language channel/community for you?
[15:58] <akis> running internet fast if you want
[15:59] <akis> i prefer this channel because i am here for years (from suse and when ubuntu was not well known) and because they are loggin many users
[16:00] <testdr> akis: are you german?
[16:01] <akis> if the problem is the language i wish you could learn my language which is one of the most ancient in this planet and for just 1 vote isnt the USA language!
[16:01] <akis> testdr: I am GREEK !!!
[16:02] <akis> testdr: well now what? i created the new account? and now what?
[16:02] <holstein> akis: you read above, and choose what you would like to do
[16:03] <holstein> !encryption
[16:03] <holstein> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step
[16:03] <akis> why encryption is involving to space problem?
[16:03] <holstein> akis: what space problem?
[16:03] <akis> should i go for a new installation?
[16:04]  * ianorlin also recommends if you do use encryption a safe deposit box is a secure enough place to write down password and keep it as it is in a secure place
[16:04] <akis> should or not to tick encryption if i choose encryption?
[16:04] <holstein> akis: i already state, you should reinstall *not* using encyption
[16:04] <holstein> akis: i would read about its use for longer before using it
[16:06] <akis> any way i give up. i think i create new account for no reason.
[16:06] <holstein> akis: i think it was due to the volunteers here not understanding your questions or issues
[16:07] <testdr> akis: i hope from what you did see, you understand that in the encryption-"store" - the directory  /home/.ecryptfs - there is the data of your main-user-account and in the user-home-directory again. But if you login as this user, only the encrypted data is used and thats why you cannot delete the other data.
[16:09] <testdr> akis: cause you said you have your backup of the data -- you can as the second admin-user delete some directorys in the /home/user directory and you will see the data-usage get lower
[16:10] <holstein> if i had a backup, i would just start over, and be aware of what encryption is, or not use it..
[16:10] <akis> i think that after so many hours here is a little complicated for even i am an almost 30 years PC users for the days of Amstrad 8086!!! never mind. i give up dear friends. thank you for you time today appreciating your efforts to help e. i hope on next days i will find a solution ggogling the problem otherwise i reinstall my system. once again have a nice day and be happy!
[16:16] <Glorfinde1> HELP!
[16:16] <Glorfinde1> lol
[16:16] <Glorfinde1> every thing is green tinted on my moniter
[16:16] <Glorfinde1> and I'm not sure why
[16:16] <holstein> Glorfinde1: i would start by testing the hardware, since, when i have seen that in the past, it has been failing monitor/graphics card
[16:17] <Glorfinde1> 'k
[16:17] <holstein> then, i would try the bios screen.. and a live CD.. to remove the installed operating system from the equation.. then move on to drivers in use, and what updates have been done when..
[16:17] <Glorfinde1> I was having problems with the port
[16:17] <Glorfinde1> ok
[16:17] <wxl> thaaaaaaaaaaat sounds bad
[16:17] <Glorfinde1> yeha
[16:17] <holstein> Glorfinde1: well, linux is not magic, so, if the port is bad, the operating system cant address that
[16:18] <Glorfinde1> *yeah, come to think of it the grub screen was bad too
[16:18] <wxl> what about the bios splash?
[16:18] <holstein> then, if grub is "bad", its not the drive in linux.. if the bios screen is "Bad", then, my money is on hardware failure..
[16:18] <holstein> driver*
[16:18]  * wxl nods
[16:19] <Glorfinde1> ok
[16:20] <Glorfinde1> first I better unplug a few things :D
[16:20] <wxl> like your usb rocket launcher?
[16:20] <Glorfinde1> IDK what is it?
[16:20] <holstein> the bus powered vga disruptor ;)
[16:20] <wxl> https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/8a0f/
[16:21] <Glorfinde1> mk
[16:22] <Glorfinde1> it isn't the moniter itself
[16:22] <wxl> therre's also the usb pet rock https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/c208/?pfm=Search&t=pet%20rock
[16:22] <Glorfinde1> maybe the cable
[16:23] <Glorfinde1> LOL
[16:23] <Glorfinde1> that stuff is FUNNYU
[16:23] <Glorfinde1> -U
[16:23] <wxl> thinkgeek is the best but i digress. replace both cables with known good ones.
[16:24] <wxl> do you have dvi as well as vga?
[16:25] <ianorlin> also check that the pins are not bent
[16:25] <ianorlin> if it is dvi or vga
[16:25] <Glorfinde1> is DVI a white connecter?
[16:25] <wxl> yep
[16:25] <Glorfinde1> yes
[16:25] <Glorfinde1> but I don't have it on my pc
[16:26] <Glorfinde1> I'm using VGA
[16:28] <wxl> well nevermind that then. no hdmi right? :)
[16:28] <Glorfinde1> n
[16:28] <Glorfinde1> o
[16:28] <Glorfinde1> I'm ancient in tech
[16:28] <Glorfinde1> :D
[16:29] <wxl> hey, you've got dvi man
[16:29] <wxl> it's not THAT old :)
[16:29] <wxl> anywho, let us know what happens when you get some other cables
[16:29] <ianorlin> he said he doesn't have that
[16:29] <wxl> ianorlin: he has it on the monitor, but not on the video card
[16:29] <Glorfinde1> I have DVI on my moniter, not pc
[16:29] <ianorlin> ah
[16:29] <Glorfinde1> vidcard is intel integrated
[16:30] <Glorfinde1> not sure if you would call that a video card :P
[16:30] <wxl> let's say "gpu"
[16:30] <Glorfinde1> that works
[16:31] <Glorfinde1> testing other cable
[16:31] <Glorfinde1> be back in a few
[16:33] <Glorfinde1> Darn
[16:33] <Glorfinde1> no diff
[16:33] <Glorfinde1> :(
[16:34] <wxl> you don't have another monitor do you?
[16:34] <Glorfinde1> no
[16:34] <wxl> because i think if you have problems with the port, i'd want to check to see if that's not your problem
[16:34] <Glorfinde1> well
[16:34] <Glorfinde1> I do
[16:34] <Glorfinde1> but the moniter isn't the problem
[16:34] <wxl> i'm not thinking about the monitor
[16:35] <wxl> if you have another monitor which you know works, you can plug it in and if there's still a problem, especially at the bios screen, it's your port
[16:36] <Glorfinde1> I umplugged the VGA cable and the 'check video cable' screen shows fine
[16:36] <Glorfinde1> *unplugged
[16:36] <wxl> did you check the bios screen?
[16:37] <Glorfinde1> no
[16:37] <Glorfinde1> but seems it was a funny color when I started it
[16:37] <Glorfinde1> IIRC
[16:37] <wxl> i'd check that
[16:38] <wxl> i'm not sure if "check video cable" actually interacts with the port or not
[16:38] <wxl> seems like it should but i don't know…
[16:38] <Glorfinde1> which port do you mean? the one on the pc or the one on the moniter
[16:39] <Glorfinde1> *monitor
[16:39] <wxl> well i assume your problem you said you had was with the monitor?
[16:39] <wxl> oops
[16:39] <wxl> s/monitor/pc/
[16:41] <Glorfinde1> the monitor was not displaying correctly but IDK if it is the pc or the screen
[16:41] <Glorfinde1> but I am thinking it is the pc
[16:42] <wxl> 0917 < Glorfinde1:#lubuntu> I was having problems with the port
[16:42] <wxl> ↑ which port did you mean?
[16:42] <Glorfinde1> the one on the moniter
[16:42] <Glorfinde1> or
[16:42] <Glorfinde1> grr
[16:42] <Glorfinde1> *monitor
[16:43] <wxl> then i doubt the check video cable screen would even work right
[16:43] <wxl> so check that other monitor
[16:51] <Glorfinde1> ;k
[16:51] <Glorfinde1> *'k
[16:56] <Glorfinde1> nope
[16:56] <wxl> didn't work or did work?
[16:56] <Glorfinde1> that monitor will not display anything
[16:56] <Glorfinde1> res was to high or someting
[16:56] <wxl> bummer
[16:56] <wxl> did you restart the computer?
[16:57] <wxl> i mean it should display the bios screen
[16:57] <Glorfinde1> not yet
[16:57] <Glorfinde1> I
[16:57] <wxl> yeah i would restart the computer when you test the monitor
[16:57] <Glorfinde1> man the enter key is awefully close to the ' key
[16:58] <Glorfinde1> ok
[16:59] <Glorfinde1> I will do so when the updates are installed
[17:06] <Glorfinde1> thx for the help
[17:06] <wxl> np
[22:24] <Ahmuck> i like to tackle the periodic double power icons in systray.
[22:29] <Ahmuck> what channel do i need to connect to for help with the panel, systray, and sequence of startup options for basic services (power, network, wireless, etc.)  i'd like to have an understanding as i began tracking down icon differences and posibly multiple utlities or startup processes for the same piece of hardware
[22:29] <Ahmuck> where would i find documentation on this?
[23:13] <wxl> Ahmuck: if you `ps aux | grep -i power` do you see multiples of the same process running?


[01:48] <BluesKaj> howdy all
[05:52] <FunnyLookinHat> Anyone here not able to boot the latest daily?  It hangs once the mouse cursor shows up...
[12:51] <BluesKaj> HI folks
[12:54] <penguin42> Hey
[15:43] <yellabs> hello mister popey
[15:43] <yellabs> have you got 5 minutes ?
[15:43] <yellabs> or are you working at the moment ?
[15:44] <yellabs> popey
[15:50] <popey> yellabs, please don't randomly send me files
[15:51] <yellabs> okey
[15:51] <yellabs> its more of an idea
[15:51] <yellabs> and pictures often say more then words
[15:52] <yellabs> dont be afraid its nothing bad
[15:53] <yellabs> hmm, if you have some time to talk just let me know..
[16:03] <popey> yellabs, stick it on imgur?
[16:11] <FernandoMiguel> is there any nautilus replacement that doesn't suck or looks it was made in 1994 and that a tree file that gnome choose to remove in 3.8? kde alternatives aren't worth it, since it means pulling half of KDE :)
[16:12] <yellabs> popey
[16:12] <yellabs> http://imgur.com/E1dHt
[16:19] <yellabs> is that an good option ? add an globe icon in the bottum icons , when choosing the 'globe' the online search kicksin, when choosing the 'home'  icon , it would do an local search instead of the online version, keeps its separeted and gives users more control..
[16:19] <yellabs> that was the idea
[18:56] <bjsnider> FernandoMiguel, you're not still using pidgin are you?
[18:58] <penguin42> and what's wrong with pidgin?
[18:58] <bjsnider> it's so, like, not empathy
[18:59] <penguin42> I *HATE* empathy
[19:05] <bjsnider> empathy is an integral part of gnome
[19:05] <bjsnider> it demands to be used
[19:08]  * penguin42 has no empathy for it
[19:09] <penguin42> bjsnider: Seriously, the UI screws me up completely; 1st time I tried to get to irc on empathy I was swearing at it for half an hour
[19:09] <bjsnider> xchat is what irc is for
[19:09]  * penguin42 suspects it might be better these days
[19:09] <penguin42> I use pidgin for it
[19:11] <BluesKaj> penguin42, aren't you a KDE user?
[19:11] <penguin42> yes, but I still use pidgin (on both my KDE and gnome systems)

[19:12] <yofel> then use kde-telepathy! Sure, that's basically empathy, but it's not empathy!
[19:13] <BluesKaj> telepathy sucks too
[19:13] <BluesKaj> try to find irc on it
[19:21] <bjsnider> xchat is what should be used for irc
[19:21] <bjsnider> more features
[19:25] <BluesKaj> konversation works well here ...xchat would be my 2nd choice
[19:32] <penguin42> bjsnider: I mostly treat my desktop environment and apps separately; if an app works I'll use it in either
[19:32] <penguin42> I've sometimes used xchat, but I like having multiple windows for irc, and pidgin lets me do that
[19:34] <penguin42> I do use Konsole, dragon and k3b on KDE, but there again I'd happily use k3b and dragon on Gnome since they just seem to work for what they do
[20:06] <FernandoMiguel> bjsnider: always! can't find anything better
[20:07] <FernandoMiguel> it will be PITA when twitter kills 3rd party apps :(
[20:07] <bjsnider> gnome has supplied something
[20:07] <FernandoMiguel> I like pidgin cause of the integration
[20:07] <FernandoMiguel> I have all my SNs in it
[20:08] <FernandoMiguel> and all the same settings cross several PCs
[20:08] <FernandoMiguel> if there was pidgin for android and/or pidgin WEB I would use that too
[20:20] <BluesKaj> penguin42 , how does one set up separate windows for each chat on pidgin?
[20:38] <FernandoMiguel> BluesKaj: enable Pane plugin, and drag it out
[20:41] <BluesKaj> FernandoMiguel:  where do I find pane plugins?
[20:43] <FernandoMiguel> sec
[20:44] <FernandoMiguel> bah... hud is messing with me
[20:44] <FernandoMiguel> I should just disable it
[20:45] <FernandoMiguel> BluesKaj: if you have plugin pack installed, in Tools>plugins you can find "Separate And Tab 2.7.0"
[21:03] <BluesKaj> FernandoMiguel:  installed the pidgin plugin pack , but don't see it in tools, the only pane is the infopane
[21:04] <FernandoMiguel> you have to enable that plugin
[21:09] <BluesKaj> yup , got it


[00:00] <CIA-60> wubi: Agostino Russo * r58 trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs):
[00:00] <CIA-60> wubi: * More precise progress reporting
[00:00] <CIA-60> wubi: * Fixed automatic version string generation
[00:00] <CIA-60> wubi: * Preseed user-setup/encrypt-home (thanks Evan Dandrea)
[10:03] <evand> lfaraone: any luck getting usb-creator to build and run last night?
[11:07] <evand> cjwatson: What are your thoughts on wrapping a preseed file that does ubiquity-preserve-home in a CD boot option for "recover my system"?  I somewhat recall mentioning this before, but I cannot for the life of me remember the conversation.
[11:07] <evand> It could parse fstab for the mountpoints and if they weren't specified by UUID, bail out.
[11:10] <cjwatson> it would need to be described a bit better than "recover my system"
[11:10] <cjwatson> in principle it sounds OK but we need to be aware that people who aren't expecting it may regard it as data loss
[11:11] <evand> sure, considering it, among other things, would effectively upgrade you if you used a newer version
[11:11] <evand> I'll spec it out for Jaunty+1 then
[11:11] <evand> if you think it's a reasonable goal, that is
[11:14] <cjwatson> I'd almost prefer a more sophisticated rescue mode with a number of options
[11:15] <cjwatson> dropping you into a UI on the ubiquity side
[11:15] <cjwatson> sometimes "recover my system" just means "reinstall my bootloader"
[11:16] <evand> Sure, that equally works for me
[12:16] <evand> Last crazy idea for the day, I promise:
[12:16] <evand> I was speaking with someone at UDS who ran into the problem whereby the install failed partway through and left a ghost system on their computer.  Ideally they wanted ubiquity to detect on a follow up run that it had already tried to install previous and failed, and that it should offer to wipe out the failed install attempt.
[12:16] <evand> I thought we could easily accomplish this by ubiquity writing a hint file to the system at the start of the install containing the partitions it's added. It would then delete this file as its last step in the install.  Alternatively, we could set the status flag of each partition to an undefined (but understood by ubiquity) value.
[12:16] <evand> Either way, if ubiquity detects the presence of this file or flag at the partitioner screen, it offers to delete the partitions in question, then reload partman.
[12:17] <evand> ^ cjwatson, does that sound like a worthwhile effort for a future release?
[12:17] <cjwatson> where would it write it (to which partition)?
[12:17] <evand> any one created by ubiquity
[12:18] <evand> in the 0 bit for each partition that it creates
[12:18] <evand> err byte
[12:21] <cjwatson> which means it would have to mount all partitions, which potentially means replaying journals (we have an os-prober bug about this)
[12:21] <cjwatson> it's an interesting and worthwhile idea, I think, and we certainly have some bugs that it would help with
[12:21] <cjwatson> but I think it has some hidden assumptions we need to examine carefully
[12:22] <cjwatson> a related suggestion would be making sure that log files end up on the target system earlier, to make it easier to diagnose bugs after a user reboots following an installer crash
[12:22] <cjwatson> so maybe we should have a general look at the handling of installer crashes, including your suggestion?
[12:28] <evand> indeed, I think so
[12:33] <evand> ok, I'll make a skeleton specification for that as well, just so it doesn't get lost before the next UDS.
[13:37] <lfaraone> evand: havn't had a chance to look into it, sorry :(
[13:38] <evand> no worries, was just curious if you got any further since we spoke last
[13:38] <evand> do let me know if you have any questions
[14:17] <cjwatson> I wish my test cycle were shorter
[14:17] <cjwatson> having to get through base-installer and apt-setup before the relevant code runs is annoying
[14:24] <evand> indeed
[14:27] <cjwatson> 31283 execve(...) = -1 EFAULT (Bad address)
[14:27] <cjwatson> oh dear
[14:29] <cjwatson> oh, I forgot to terminate argv. idiot
[14:29] <DogWater> oh, and for some reason the 8.10 installer spews a bunch of busybox errors when it is starting up
[14:29] <DogWater> at least here it does.
[14:31] <cjwatson> DogWater: fairly sure it doesn't do that as standard - I'm sure people would have screamed at me during testing
[14:32] <DogWater> maybe only the pxeboot image does it?
[14:32] <DogWater> err netboot?
[14:34] <cjwatson> maybe it would be easier if I saw the errors :-)
[14:35] <DogWater> I can put it on a KVM if you want, if that would make it even easier
[14:35] <DogWater> ;-)
[14:35] <DogWater> but yeah i'll start with the bug report you requested
[14:35] <cjwatson> KVM => keyboard video mouse or kernel virtual machine?
[14:35] <DogWater> sorry, i meant KVM-IP ;-)
[14:36] <cjwatson> a screenshot would probably be less fiddly
[14:38] <DogWater> hrm, not sure how to pause it during the pre-boot phase to see exactly what busybox is complaining about, it looks like it is saying invalid option -i about 20 times
[14:39] <DogWater> but it moves pretty fast
[14:41] <davmor2> DogWater: is this actually 8.10 or 9.04 netboot that your on about?
[14:42] <DogWater> I downloaded the 8.10 iso and moved the netboot directory onto my tftpserver
[14:42] <DogWater> so whatever version that is
[14:42] <DogWater> its 8.10 server
[14:42] <DogWater> dont know if that matters
[14:45] <DogWater> also, just a general question about the installer, is there any way to instruct it to blow away whatever is on the disk so that you don't run into the LVM limitation where you have to manually partition the disk, and/or is there a way to automatically partition the disk?
[14:45] <DogWater> i'm coming from the redhat/fedora/centos kickstart
[14:45] <DogWater> and i guess i'm a little spoiled
[14:46] <cjwatson> invalid option -i> hmm, that sounds like something I remember fixing
[14:47] <cjwatson> yes, there is at least a preseeding option to do that
[14:47] <cjwatson> and you can certainly automatically partition the disk, even via the usual kickstart methods
[14:47] <cjwatson> although LVM partitioning is not yet provided via kickstart, unfortunately
[14:47] <DogWater> i use clearpart --all and it still hangs up if there is already a LVM partition on the drive
[14:47] <cjwatson> but it can be done directly via preseeding
[14:47] <cjwatson> if you look at the installation guide, there's a preseeding directive for that
[14:47] <DogWater> oh, well i dont need LVM partitions, i just want regular partitions, but for some reason even though i use clearpart --all it still complains about LVM
[14:48] <DogWater> cjwatson: it is complaining about busybox -l sorry, not i
[14:49] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/installation-guide/i386/preseed-contents.html and search for device_remove_lvm
[14:49] <cjwatson> that transforms into 'preseed partman-lvm/device_remove_lvm boolean true' in a kickstart file
[14:50] <DogWater> ah, i guess i didn't get that you could use preseed commands in a kickstart
[14:50] <cjwatson> (https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/installation-guide/i386/automatic-install.html)
[14:50] <cjwatson> yeah, https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/installation-guide/i386/automatic-install.html documents our extensions and things we don't yet support
[14:53] <DogWater> ah okay i think i've nailed down the problems i'm having, essentially the rootpw and the
[14:53] <DogWater> user directives dont appear to work
[14:54] <DogWater> in kickstart anymore, looking at /etc/shadow there is no pw set for root and it doesn't create the user i have specified
[14:54] <DogWater> (and asks to create a user manually)
[14:54] <cjwatson> I really just need the kickstart file
[14:54] <cjwatson> I can take it from there
[14:54] <DogWater> no problem
[14:56] <DogWater> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kickseed/+bug/320053
[14:57] <cjwatson> ok, great; let me finish up the other thing I'm working on and I'll have a look at that
[15:03] <DogWater> cjwatson: I realize you're busy but regarding auto-partitioning the documentation you refered to indicates that folks should refer to the redhat documentation, the redhat command for autopartitioning is autopart in the ubuntu installer this command doesn't appear to work.
[15:03] <cjwatson> it wasn't when I wrote that :-)
[15:03] <cjwatson> and it does link specifically to the RHL 9 docs
[15:04] <cjwatson> which do not list autopart
[15:04] <cjwatson> autopart is a new addition since I last updated kickseed to match Anaconda, I suppose
[15:04] <cjwatson> do you have a current documentation link?
[15:05] <DogWater> oh, okay i'll go back and look at the rhl 9 docs then ;-)
[15:06]  * cjwatson finds http://www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/5/html/Installation_Guide/ch-kickstart2.html
[15:07] <cjwatson> ok, you should probably just look at the preseeding documentation and translate it to kickstart in the usual way to get automatic partitioning
[15:07] <DogWater> yeah, thats for RHEL 5 not rh 9 ;-)
[15:07] <DogWater> you're right autopart doesn't show up in the rh 9 docs ;-)
[15:09] <cjwatson> I've filed bug 320062
[15:11] <DogWater> autopart actually goes back as far as rhel 3
[15:11] <DogWater> just so you're aware
[15:11] <cjwatson> right, I wrote kickseed for Ubuntu 5.04 though
[15:11] <cjwatson> it's had some updates since then but not major ones
[15:12] <DogWater> so the preseed commands i just remove the d-i and pop them in the kickstart?
[15:13] <cjwatson> d-i FOO BAR BAZ => preseed FOO BAR BAZ; anything-else FOO BAR BAZ => preseed --owner anything-else FOO BAR BAZ
[15:14] <DogWater> thanks sir
[15:14] <DogWater> if only debian would backport your kickstart enhancements ;-)
[15:15] <cjwatson> the relevant code is already in Debian's d-i repository
[15:15] <DogWater> so then a command like this: preseed partman-auto/disk string /dev/sda shouldn't "break" the kickstart process?
[15:16] <cjwatson> however, there is some contention about the extra space required to add the necessary busybox modules
[15:16] <cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=348314
[15:16] <cjwatson> (and subsequent stuff on debian-boot somewhere
[15:16] <cjwatson> )
[15:16] <cjwatson> DogWater: clearpart --all should already do that partman-auto/disk change (effectively)
[15:17] <cjwatson> and in fact I think it's roughly equivalent to the stuff you need for autopart
[15:17] <cjwatson> the only things you'd need to add would be:
[15:17] <DogWater> ah, i added some preseed commands to the kickstart and now its asking me what kind of keyboard i am using ;-)
[15:18] <cjwatson> preseed partman/choose_partition string finish
[15:18] <cjwatson> preseed partman/confirm boolean true
[15:18] <cjwatson> that's odd, since your keyboard command is correct
[15:18] <DogWater> I just pasted what I added
[15:18] <DogWater> to your pm
[15:19] <cjwatson> oh, your getopt -l bug is bug 293586
[15:19] <cjwatson> I guess I should backport that
[15:19] <cjwatson> and indeed that explains your other bug
[15:20] <cjwatson> that bug has a link to an initrd I put together as a temporary measure
[15:20] <cjwatson> just i386 at the moment
[15:20] <DogWater> thanks, I guess not many people do the completely hands off server installs
[15:20] <DogWater> wee bit important for a hosting company ;-)
[15:21] <DogWater> is the syntax on my new preseed commands okay or is that all blown? i believe that comes right out of debian
[15:23] <cjwatson> partman-auto/purge_lvm_from_device is outdated - you need to work from the installation guide for your release as preseeding syntax does sometimes change
[15:23] <cjwatson> I suspect you're using documentation for Debian etch there
[15:24] <cjwatson> partman-lvm/device_remove_lvm is the one you want nowadays
[15:25] <DogWater> I see the patch is there a built initrd linked?
[15:25] <cjwatson> ignore the patch, it isn't necessary if you follow the link in a different comment to my initrd build
[15:25] <DogWater> I think i'll have to make a public mirror for ubuntu since you're being so helpful
[15:25] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/intrepid-busybox-fix/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/
[15:26] <cjwatson> I've started the stable update process for that busybox change now
[15:27] <davmor2> cjwatson: would it be worth setting up a testcase for this process?
[15:27] <cjwatson> it was my fault that took so long
[15:27] <cjwatson> davmor2: yes
[15:27] <cjwatson> it's a sin that we don't test kickstart
[15:28] <DogWater> I guess its this line that ks doesn't like.
[15:28] <DogWater> preseed partman-auto/choose_recipe \
[15:28] <DogWater>        select All files in one partition (recommended for new users)
[15:28] <DogWater> i'll read the docus for preseed on 8.10
[15:29] <cjwatson> that line should be fine
[15:29] <DogWater> ah it complains about the ( when it goes to read the ks file
[15:29] <cjwatson> ah, hmm, that's possible
[15:29] <cjwatson> more current syntax is:
[15:29] <cjwatson> preseed partman-auto/choose_recipe select atomic
[15:30] <cjwatson> we instituted that a little while back to avoid all the problems with preseeding the verbose versions
[15:30] <DogWater> i'm just trying to get it so that no matter what it doesn't ask me anything ;-) if i can do that i'll be pleased
[15:31] <DogWater> thanks for taking care of that. if you need any test servers or anything i can help
[15:31] <cjwatson> shouldn't, as this is pretty system-independent, but thanks anyway
[15:32] <DogWater> nice, it skipped right over the partitioner this time
[15:33] <DogWater> well i must say this was alot easier than getting a bug in Dell's PERC 6i for windows x64 driver fixed ;-)
[15:34] <DogWater> cjwatson: the last nitpicky question i had is there a way to use a local source as the install media (http) and then have it automatically put the apt sources to their defaults for updates and installs?
[15:36] <cjwatson> not quite out of the box, but you can always rewrite the sources.list in a preseed/late_command script
[15:36] <cjwatson> sed -i 'whatever' /target/etc/apt/sources.list; in-target apt-get update
[15:36] <cjwatson> or something like that
[15:36] <DogWater> i could just wget the original from the http server, too?
[15:36] <cjwatson> wget the original what?
[15:37] <DogWater> the distribution version of sources.list
[15:37] <cjwatson> which is built programmatically - it's not on an Ubuntu mirror in plain form
[15:37] <cjwatson> you can of course fetch it from somewhere if you happen to have a version you'd like
[15:37] <DogWater> ah i meant i could put it up in my local http server and then at the end of the install replace the old one
[15:37] <cjwatson> sure
[15:38] <DogWater> hm i wonder which way would be proper as the version stored locally would be static
[15:38] <cjwatson> I'd use the sed approach if I were doing it
[15:38] <cjwatson> but either is fine
[15:40] <DogWater> hrm, i'm not sure i understand your syntax in that sed line, does apt-get update provide the mirror list?
[15:41] <cjwatson> apt-get update tells apt-get to fetch index files from the servers listed in sources.list, and is necessary after changing sources.list
[15:42] <DogWater> ah so the 'whatever' would be new content
[15:42] <DogWater> I could also use sed to just replace the current listed URL with a new URL
[15:42] <DogWater> everywhere it appears
[15:42] <DogWater> in that file
[15:47] <DogWater> like preseed/late_command sed 's/mirrors.domain.com/ubuntu/whatevermirror.domain.com/ubuntu/g' /target/etc/apt/sources.list; in-target apt-get update
[15:48] <DogWater> obviously i'll need to escape the /'s in the url
[15:51] <cjwatson> yes, that was the kind of thing I meant
[15:54] <DogWater> cool, i'll give it a shot i'm installing centos on this machine now to make sure it wont choke on lvm
[16:03] <davmor2> cjwatson: I'll have a chat with you after alpha 4 and see if we can't get a kickstart testcase together
[16:03] <cjwatson> ok
[16:06] <DogWater> cjwatson: so preseed partman-lvm/confirm boolean true  should make it automatically confirm the removal of an LVM partition, correct?
[16:06] <evand> hrm, now that we have ext4 support, perhaps making fallocate calls in copy_all would be worthwhile.
[16:07] <cjwatson> DogWater: believe so
[16:07] <DogWater> hrm, its asking me to confirm, i'll check the docs, thanks
[16:07] <cjwatson> would need to see the text of the confirmation dialog
[16:09] <DogWater> in general is it normal for the installer to request a bunch of files that aren't available on the CD?
[16:10] <cjwatson> in general you should be using the netboot installer against a proper archive mirror, not against a mounted CD image. The latter is not really supported.
[16:14] <DogWater> hm, so i will just need to create an archive mirror for the dists im using
[16:18] <cjwatson> debmirror makes it not too bad assuming you have reasonable bandwidth
[16:18] <DogWater> yeah but my tftpserver is centos
[16:18] <cjwatson> I maintain a limited mirror for stuff I care about behind a sub-megabit ADSL line
[16:18] <DogWater> oh we have 5Gbps across 6 connections here
[16:19] <cjwatson> debmirror's just a perl script and should be easy to run on centos
[16:19] <DogWater> ah
[16:19] <DogWater> i was thinking it was a pkg
[16:20] <cjwatson> it's a package containing a perl script ;-)
[16:27] <CIA-59> ubiquity: evand * r2985 ubiquity/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
[16:27] <CIA-59> ubiquity: Modified the keyboard setup page to produce a more visually obvious
[16:27] <CIA-59> ubiquity: suggestion.
[16:28] <evand> ^ That could probably use some more work, and needs the Qt end done, but I wanted to get it committed so it can be further discussed.
[16:36] <DogWater> cjwatson: sed 's/http:\/\/<IP_ADDRESS>\/Ubuntu8.10/http:\/\/ubuntu.osuosl.org\/ubuntu/g' /target/etc/apt/sources.list; this command should actually edit the file right? it seems to just output the changes
[16:38] <cjwatson> note that I said sed -i
[16:38] <cjwatson> -i => in-place edit
[16:39] <DogWater> my bad you're right im not much on sed yet
[16:40] <DogWater> or reading apparently
[17:20] <cr3> cjwatson: how would you feel if I replaced preseeds with kickstarts in my testing rig? would that be a preferable way of testing automated installs considering I believe kickstart is the officially supported technology?
[17:39] <cjwatson> cr3: kickstart is not the only officially supported approach. both kickstart and preseeding are supported, with different audiences.
[17:39] <cjwatson> I would appreciate you adding at least one kickstart test case
[17:39] <cjwatson> but please don't drop preseeding
[17:39] <cr3> cjwatson: ok, I got overly excited with nijaba's whitepaper on automated installs
[17:40] <cjwatson> pointer?
[17:40] <cr3> cjwatson: it would be complicated for me to perform one install with preseed and another with kickstart, for the same image. how about I use preseed for alternate images and kickstart for server images, might that be a decent compromise?
[17:40] <cr3> cjwatson: https://wiki.canonical.com/WhitePapers/AutomatedInstall
[17:40] <cjwatson> I don't mind; there are other sensible ways for us to test Kickstart
[17:49] <DogWater> cjwatson bah my damn sed has a syntax error ;-) love it
[18:05] <DogWater> cjwatson: is it preseed preseed/late_command or just preseed late_command?
[18:08] <evand> the former
[18:12] <DogWater> that explains that
[18:12] <DogWater> :D
[18:14] <evand> https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-advanced.html
[18:14] <evand> ^ gives the exact format of the line
[18:14] <evand> erm actually
[18:15] <evand> nevermind that, you're using kickstart
[18:15] <evand> just as you said, preseed preseed/late_command :)
[18:16] <evand> so: preseed preseed/late_command string echo success
[18:20] <DogWater> preseed preseed/late_command sed -i 's/http:\/\/<IP_ADDRESS>\/ubuntu/http:\/\/ubuntu.osuosl.org\/ubuntu/g' /target/etc/apt/sources
[18:20] <DogWater> .list; in-target apt-get update
[18:20] <DogWater> is there some reason why that wouldn't run?
[18:21] <DogWater> ah, maybe i need to add string
[18:22] <evand> yes
[18:22] <evand> you need string in there
[18:23] <DogWater> ah, the final question i had is does anyone know how to prepare a gpg keyring for debmirror but on centos?
[18:26] <DogWater> i guess i'll have to copy the archive keyring from an ubuntu box
[18:26] <DogWater> and hope for the best ;_)
[18:28] <DogWater> ah, for some reason getopt is saying -i is not a valid option
[18:29] <DogWater> i must need to escape the command line or something
[18:29] <DogWater> on those preseed/late_commands
[18:36] <DogWater> hrm, that is odd yeah getopt says invalid argument -i when it goes to issue those commands
[18:47] <cjwatson> you sure it's getopt not sed?
[18:47] <cjwatson> erm, sorry, busybox sed doesn't support -i. Use   chroot /target sed -i '...' /etc/apt/sources.list   instead
[18:48] <DogWater> would in-target also work there?
[18:50] <cjwatson> it would, but it's overkill
[18:51] <cjwatson> in-target is chroot /target wrapped in a bunch of other stuff you don't need for just running sed -i
[18:52] <DogWater> ah, are you familiar with debmirror? how do you make it get two arches and more than one release at a time?
[18:53] <DogWater> i'm trying to get amd64 and i386 on 8.04 server, 8.10 server and the latest 7
[19:04] <DogWater> nevermind figured that out, still can't get sed to run ;-) lol
[19:07] <DogWater> seems like it just doesn't want to do it ;-)
[19:10] <DogWater> cjwatson: still says getopt: invalid option -- 'i'
[19:11] <DogWater> even with the darn chroot
[19:12] <DogWater> here i'll try it without the auto reboot to see if i can run the command myself
[19:20] <DogWater> yeah, it works if i just type out the command, but not from preseed/late_command
[19:22] <DogWater> argh
[19:24] <DogWater> i commented those commands out to see if the getopt -i error is coming from that, i assume it is, but who knows at this point
[19:35] <DogWater> yeah no getopt error when i remove those, now im going to try in-target
[19:38] <DogWater> yeah, doesnt work regardless of what i do
[19:38] <DogWater> crikey
[19:40] <DogWater> let me know if you have any ideas please
[19:46] <cjwatson> does the error show up in /var/log/syslog? if so, could I have the full syslog please?
[19:46] <DogWater> cjwatson: do i need to call a different shell somehow to get away from busybox?
[19:46] <cjwatson> no
[19:46] <cjwatson> chroot /target ... will use dash in the chroot
[19:47] <cjwatson> it actually sounds like it may not be from preseed/late_command at all, which is why I'm asking for logs
[19:47] <DogWater> ah, i tried both chroot /target and in-target ...
[19:47] <cjwatson> because, well, preseed doesn't use getopt at all
[19:47] <DogWater> oh, okay well when i comment those two lines out it doesn't show that message
[19:47] <cjwatson> sure, but please check the logs anyway
[19:47] <cjwatson> the installer is a complex system
[19:48] <DogWater> i did a grep -R getopt * in /var/log and it just says popt was heavily influenced by the getopt() and getopt_long() functions
[19:50] <DogWater> is there a way to get a copy of the kickstart file as the system interpreted it?
[19:52] <cjwatson> err, that's a very confusing question
[19:52] <cjwatson> it implies there's such a thing :)
[19:53] <DogWater> well, i am trying to determine what the installer thinks the command after 'string' is
[19:53] <cjwatson> you could run 'debconf-get preseed/late_command' from tty2
[19:53] <DogWater> i mean it is kind of a crazy command
[19:54] <DogWater> so maybe it isnt intrepreting it like i expect it to
[19:54] <DogWater> cjwatson: it returns a newline
[19:54] <cjwatson> I think you're barking up the wrong tree here, TBH
[19:55] <DogWater> okay, well what would you consider the issue then?
[19:55] <cjwatson> I don't know, I'm going to need to reproduce it myself I think
[19:55] <cjwatson> could you put the most recent copy of your preseed file in bug 320053?
[19:55] <cjwatson> (passwords removed again)
[19:55] <DogWater> sure
[20:02] <cjwatson> preseed preseed/late_command string in-target sed -i 's/http:\/\/<IP_ADDRESS>\/ubuntu/http:\/\/ubuntu.osuosl.org\/ubuntu/g' /etc/$
[20:02] <cjwatson> preseed preseed/late_command string in-target sed -i 's/http:\/\/<IP_ADDRESS>\/Ubuntu8.10\//http:\/\/ubuntu.osuosl.org\/ubuntu/g'$
[20:02] <cjwatson> is the $ there a cut-and-paste error (from vi maybe)?
[20:02] <DogWater> Yeah try the 2nd one
[20:03] <cjwatson> and you know that only the last one will take effect?
[20:03] <cjwatson> the last one is cut off too
[20:03] <DogWater> i posted another comment without the $$
[20:03] <cjwatson> gotcha
[20:03] <DogWater> sorry
[20:03] <DogWater> it kind of wrapped it funny
[20:03] <cjwatson> though it's just cut off with no $ :-P
[20:04] <cjwatson> does it go "sed -i '...' /etc/apt/sources.list; in-target apt-get update"?
[20:04] <cjwatson> I really need an accurate copy here
[20:04] <DogWater> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/busybox/+bug/320053/comments/3
[20:04] <cjwatson> oh, it's wrapped not cut off
[20:04] <cjwatson> ok
[20:04] <DogWater> yeah, sorry the text box wrapped it
[20:05] <cjwatson> I can cope with the wrapping, as long as it isn't wrapped in your original file
[20:05] <DogWater> no its not that is why it had the $ in the original file because i copied it from the editor
[20:05] <DogWater> err the original comment
[20:05] <DogWater> i should say
[20:08] <DogWater> and the busybox in the installer has sed -i at least according to it's help
[20:08] <DogWater> so i have no idea where those getopt: messages are coming from
[20:10] <DogWater> the exact message is getopt: invalid option -- ' i'
[20:11] <DogWater> and it does it once for each preseed/late_command line in the kickstart
[20:11] <cjwatson> yes, you're right, it does support -i - sorry
[20:12] <cjwatson> confirm that you're using the fixed netboot image posted in the other bug?
[20:13] <DogWater> well, yes I have to be right because otherwise the root user wouldn't have a password and it would ask me to create a user
[20:17] <cjwatson> just making sure
[20:18] <cjwatson> test running
[23:22] <cjwatson> DogWater: gah, my test didn't seem particularly useful; I didn't get your error, though ran into a different one just before the end of the installation
[23:23] <cjwatson> DogWater: I'd appreciate a copy of your syslog anyway; you can extract it from the installer environment by running 'anna-install openssh-client-udeb' and then using scp. Make sure to copy the syslog from the installer root, *not* from /target
[23:29] <cjwatson> DogWater: you said that the exact message was: getopt: invalid option -- ' i'. I don't think that space can be there - I've tracked down the relevant code and it only ever prints one character between the quotes?
[23:30] <cjwatson> I'll have to look further tomorrow :-/


[05:59] <kamo> Hey!
[06:00] <cfhowlett> Ho!
[06:01] <kamo> So, after I enter my password onto the lockscreen, I get greeted with a lock logo with "you'll be redirected to the unlock dialogue automatically in a few second" but nothing really happens. How do I go back to my desktop?
[06:01] <cfhowlett> version?
[06:01] <kamo> 18.04
[06:02] <cfhowlett> try this:  https://www.linuxslaves.com/2016/05/3-ways-fix-ubuntu-gets-stuck-login-loop.html
[06:04] <kamo> Yeah, but that requires me to reboot, and I have a ton of applications opened on my desktop. Ctrl+alt+f7 doesn't work.
[06:17] <cfhowlett> that seems a bit irrelevant as you can't presently login.  Am I missing something?
[06:24] <kamo> So I can't spawn a shell
[06:24] <kamo> Cfhowlett: yes, I'm not able to login
[06:25] <cfhowlett> then your open apps don't matter much.  try one of the solutions I sent you.
[06:37] <kamo> Okay Thanks
[06:37] <kamo> And also my xubuntu machine keeps freezing every now and then
[06:38] <kamo> I don't know why
[06:38] <cfhowlett> insufficient data for the most wildest guess
[09:48] <sm0rux> I've tried to search on DuckDuckGo but don't find the answer. Maybe someone here remember. There is a way to get vertical scrolling smother in all programs. If I remember correctly it was something in the GTK2 or GTK3 config. Anyone here that can help?
[10:07] <mubarak> sm0rux: synclient? enable two finger scrolling will be like this: $ synclient VertTwoFingerScroll=1 | $ synclient -l for all the options
[10:10] <sm0rux> mubarak: That might work, but it's really not what I'm looking for. It was a oneliner in ~/config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini (if I recall correctly).
[10:15] <sm0rux> mubarak: Found it. It was "gtk-primary-button-warps-slider = false" but I forgot to add a line "[Settings]" before the actual line.
[10:15] <sm0rux> Now it work!
[10:15] <sm0rux> *works
[16:08] <kaladin> I'm kind of new to xubuntu and I'll be able to run StarCraft 2 on it.
[16:08] <kaladin> Any advice?
[17:10] <APoliTech> hey all! i have a quick question. Xubuntu have the new minimal install?
[17:11] <krytarik> No.
[17:11] <APoliTech> :( thx :((
[17:11] <krytarik> (There is Xubuntu Core though.)
[17:13] <APoliTech> sadly not the same
[17:13] <krytarik> Yes, ours is better. :P
[17:14] <Unit193> The "new minimal" install still contains the full desktop so the ISO is no smaller, and just uninstalls a few things after install.  So yes, they aren't the same. :>
[17:15] <APoliTech> but why xubuntu did not provide minimal install?
[17:16] <Unit193> Given what I stated, why should it?
[17:17] <APoliTech> fist to have fully working uefi suport?
[18:06] <nova_> This is going to sound crazy...but I want to edit a file as root using a GUI editor.  I'm just not a huge fan of vi, nano, etc.  Sure some people will say login as root or just sudu mousepad, but we all know thats crazy.  Some others will say use gksu/gksudo or pkexec....but it seems that is also crazy.  I even tried to confgigure pkexec to work and it stopped me with one final warning about how it was a bad idea before
[18:06] <nova_> giving me an arguement to override and allow it.  I guess my question is if there is a safe and correct way to use a gui text editor to modify files requiring root privledges
[18:58] <Iolo> sudoedit, perhaps?
[18:58] <Iolo> That's the closest thing I can think of.
[19:09] <flocculant> nova_: you shouldn't need to muck about - pkexec mousepad is provided default
[19:11] <nova_> flocculant: Oh!  SO it is.  I should have been more specific I guess and not given such a generic answer assuming that mousepad would work the same as what I wanted to use.  I'm actually interested in using Notepadqq
[19:13] <flocculant> then you'll have to muck about ;)
[19:15] <nova_> flocculant: I made an action file for it and run with with pkexec notepadqq, but I got a warning about the perils of using root with it but it said use -allowroot or something to override it
[19:16] <nova_> I'm worried about mucking about too much...I felt like i was too far into the muck
[19:56] <flocculant> mmm - well never seen that warning here
[19:57] <krytarik> Yes, because it's specific to that app.
[20:19] <nova_> The people who make notepadqq seem to like snap, and I understand that snap wont be able to use root anyway.  I had to use the PPA install method to get as far as I did and they say they want to eventually just use snap...so I guess running as root isn't going to ever be a priority for them
[20:20] <nova_> I'll just stick to nano or mousepad I guess..thanks for the input
[20:54] <m00n_urn> Hey! My xubuntu machine keeps freezing every now and then (today alone: 4 times). I have to restart it everytime to get it to work again. I've lost all my xubuntu settings the last time I restarted due to it freezing. Xubuntu 18.04.
[20:55] <m00n_urn> I had to*
[20:57] <Javabean> for reference, what programs were running during these freezes.  what kind of pc is it.
[20:57] <Javabean> for reference, what programs were running during these freezes.  what kind of pc is it.
[20:58] <m00n_urn_> What do you guys think is causing it?
[20:59] <m00n_urn_> Javabean, it's a Thinkpad E450. Many. A torrent client, XMPP client, FF, a few text files, a terminal.
[21:01] <Javabean> i am not someone who can help, but i do know that they needed a bit more information before they could start to figure out what might be wrong.  patience is a virtue, someone in this room might be able to help, but it may take a while before they see the question
[21:02] <m00n_urn_> Javabean, understood. Thanks. :)
[21:03] <Javabean> sorry i can't help more, that sounds like an annoying issue
[21:05] <m00n_urn_> No worries. :) The thing is I wanted to move to lighter distro before moving to Xubuntu from Ubuntu trusty. But, this happens so often it's just plain annoying.
[21:11] <m00n_urn_> Do I have to provide any system logs to rectify this issue?
[21:19] <m00n_urn> google doesn't return anything, atleast not specific to my issue. :\
[21:20] <Javabean> sure it couldn't hurt the diagnosis to go ahead and paste the logs to https://paste.ubuntu.com and then posting the link here
[21:20] <m00n_urn> but where would I collect them from?
[21:21] <Javabean> good question... i don't even know which ones might be relevant
[21:21] <m00n_urn> hah, okay
[21:28] <Javabean> i just thunk, do you have temperature monitoring setup on that laptop?? as a far left field idea, maybe it overheated and thermal shutdown messily