[00:17] <ianorlin> that isn't quite nesecary for intel integrated graphics
[00:21] <Meerkat> ianorlin, that laptop has AMD graphics
[00:39] <n-iCe> uhm
[00:39] <n-iCe> installed ubuntu
[00:39] <n-iCe> and the same
[00:39] <n-iCe> I don't see that additional drivers though
[00:42] <Meerkat> n-iCe, are you not using lubuntu?
[00:43] <n-iCe> I just installed ubuntu
[00:43] <n-iCe> I was using lubuntu
[01:13] <Datz_> Hi, I keep getting crashes everytime I try to install something.
[01:15] <Datz> I think that unless something is being installed with the package manager, everything is fine.
[01:17] <Datz> I took a picture of the calltrace: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgq9m7czqbrap6c/2014-03-09%2016.43.46.jpg
[01:17] <Datz> I was thinking the kernel was crashing or something
[01:18] <Datz> not sure what to do.
[01:19] <FuuqUmiist> how do you change the menu icon to say menu to make it more user friendly
[01:25]  * Datz moves his question to #ubuntu
[01:50] <FuuqUmiist> how do you hide the menu bar in gnome-mplayer to make more efficient use of space?
[02:01] <FuuqUmiist> Lubuntu or Linux Mint XFCE? which do you think is more user friendly for people who don't know how to use computers and only have experience with Windows
[02:01] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: mint is not supported here
[02:02] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: both are free and easy to try for yourself on your hardware
[02:03] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: most applications have a full screen mode.. but, i dont see any in gnome-mplayer
[02:04] <holstein> i see settings in the preferences menu for "interface".. but none to address removeing the menubar
[02:04] <holstein> nothing about gnome-mplayer makes me want to use it over one of the more 'attractive' alternatives, if aesthetics were important
[02:11] <FuuqUmiist> holstein if you have launcher with icons in the panel how do you change the name of the icon when the mouse is over it
[02:12] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: i would refer to the documentation for the launcher
[02:12] <FuuqUmiist> if i change the application name in the menu will it mess anything up?
[02:15] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: it will change the name in the menu
[02:16] <holstein> i usually mess around with the UI and settings in a live CD or as another user.. to see the effects without breaking anything
[02:17] <FuuqUmiist> so do you know how to change the menu icon in the panel to say "menu" to make it more user friendly
[02:18] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: when i right click on mine, i am faced with an option to edit the menu
[02:18] <holstein> when i click on that, i can point to a custom icon location
[02:20] <FuuqUmiist> is there a standard custom "menu" icon that says menu?
[02:20] <holstein> http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXDE:Questions#I_would_like_to_change_the_LXDE_icon_in_the_start_menu._How_do_I_do_it.3F
[02:20] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: you can use *anything* you like
[02:21] <holstein> you can make your own.. grab anything from the internet
[02:21] <holstein> http://www.qagoma.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0018/136017/menu_button.png for example
[02:22] <holstein> or start.. or whatever the user expects
[02:22] <holstein> or, just tell them
[02:22] <FuuqUmiist> yeah, but i don't have those images
[02:23] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: what are you saying? friend? you dont have what images?
[02:23] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: the one i linked? i google searched for "menu icon button" and found that and many others
[02:23] <FuuqUmiist> something that says "menu" or "start"
[02:23] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: you can make your own, or get one from *anywhere*
[02:23] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: i used google image search to find the one i linked above
[02:23] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: there were several thousand that came up
[02:24] <FuuqUmiist> oh so i just save that and direct to it and it will resize everything naturally?
[02:24] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: you can try it, and see.. and edit as needed
[02:24] <FuuqUmiist> i will copy the windows "start" icon :P
[02:24] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: there are many windows themes
[02:25] <holstein> but, i find its not constructive to try and clone windows
[02:25] <holstein> there are many distros that are catering to cloing the windows UI
[02:25] <FuuqUmiist> but it will be easier to help people who are not familiar with linux
[02:25] <FuuqUmiist> i can just tell them to go to the "start" menu
[02:25] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: sure.. i just disgree with you
[02:26] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: i think it will be easier to educate the new user with the new system
[02:26] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: but, as i stated, there are many ways to do what you are trying to do.. many have already been done for you
[02:40] <FuuqUmiist> when is Lubuntu LTS going to be released?
[02:41] <holstein> !lts
[02:41] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: 14.04 is planned to be AFAIK, the first LTS for lubuntu
[02:41] <holstein> though, the core is supported upstream
[02:41] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: so.. april
[02:42] <FuuqUmiist> i wish it was this week
[02:42] <holstein> FuuqUmiist: you can go and download it anytime you like
[03:25] <FuuqUmiist> this should be a default theme option for Lubuntu http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php/Lubuntu+XP+three+flavors?content=162880
[03:39] <Random832> FuuqUmiist: no it shouldn't.
[03:44] <FuuqUmiist> why
[03:45] <Unit193> 1. Why mimic Windows?  2. No GTK3 support.
[03:45] <ianorlin> I wouldn't want to use that at a linux conference
[03:47] <FuuqUmiist> more people would be willing to use Lubuntu with that theme
[03:49] <FuuqUmiist> btw, how much HDD space would you need for a new Lubuntu install?
[03:51] <Unit193> I had one in 10G, 5G free.
[03:51] <ianorlin> 10G will work
[04:26] <FuuqUmiist> is it more lightweight to use flash or html5?
[04:45] <ianorlin> flash has problem on some old video cards not sure about html5
[04:46] <FuuqUmiist> i know in the past flash in linux used a lot of CPU to play videos and stuff, but how about now? is Flash better than html5?
[04:48] <ianorlin> I think they both use a lot not sure of exact usage of both
[09:12] <guest0292> Using Lubuntu 12.04 and 13.04.    When I install pulseaudio and pavucontrol,  it tells me pavucontrol can't access the /home/user1 folder, so I have to manually chown -R user1 /home/user1 to give pavucontrol access.
[09:13] <guest0292> Is this a bug in Lubuntu/Pulse/Pavucontrol,  or has my OS corrupted to cause this?
[09:14] <guest0292> alsamixer works fine without having to chown but pavucontrol requires me to chown /home/user1.  strange
[09:26] <serranellus> hi everybody, I was trying to run the Lubuntu livecd but it does’t work because of a graphic problem.  Is there a way to fix it and to run this livecd properly?
[17:01] <sailorcire_alt> Hey, I for sent here from #suse. In LXDE control center, my icons are showing, but the text underneath them is gone. Any ideas on how to reset this?
[18:15] <Meerkat> sailorcire_alt, I am not familiar with a 'LXDE control center'. Where is it?
[18:17] <ianorlin> I think it isn't in recent versions of lubuntu
[18:17] <ianorlin> Meerkat what are you looking for?
[18:18] <Meerkat> I was trying to help the user above.
[18:30] <ianorlin> ah thanks for helping out
[19:23] <pc-problem> Is there a way I can lock the desktop icons in place, so they can't be moved by dragging them?
[19:23] <pc-problem> Lubuntu 13.10 - LXDE - PCManFM
[19:37] <sailorcire_alt> Meerkat should be under Launcher -> System -> LXDE Control Center.


[22:32] <mup> PR operator#659 opened: Add a method to set planned unit count in the testing harness <Created by petevg> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/659>
[22:59] <mup> Issue operator#571 closed: [storage] Expand StorageEvent to provide details of disk by default <enhancement> <Created by phvalguima> <Closed by rbarry82> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/571>
[22:59] <mup> PR operator#648 closed: Add storage details to StorageEvents <Created by rbarry82> <Merged by rbarry82> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/648>


[00:17] <dobey> BUGabundo: we're working on some performance issues that need to be fixed before we fulfill many more invites. should happen in the next few days though.
[00:19] <dobey> BUGabundo: btw, you've updated karmic from today? does going full screen in anything crash your X session?
[00:19] <dobey> (i'd recommend starting another failsafe session to test with)
[00:24] <BUGabundo> I use a bunch of full screen apps
[00:24] <BUGabundo> and haven't noticed it yet dobey
[00:24] <BUGabundo> just put Pidgin on full screen
[00:24] <BUGabundo> worked okay for me
[00:24] <dobey> pidgin, full screen?
[00:25] <dobey> i mean full screen, not maximized
[00:25] <dobey> ie, hit F11 in gnome-terminal, firefox, totem, or eog
[00:27] <BUGabundo> dobey: SuperL + F11
[00:27] <BUGabundo> on Compiz
[00:27] <BUGabundo> makes any app Full Screen
[00:27] <BUGabundo> preaty handy
[00:29] <dobey> oh
[00:29] <BUGabundo> I use it a lot on kmail
[00:29] <BUGabundo> so I get Full Focus on mail and forget IM
[00:29] <dobey> i don't know that i'd call that handy though :)
[00:29] <BUGabundo> I used to use it even more on my previous 12" laptop
[00:29] <dobey> although on my new laptop it might be
[00:30] <BUGabundo> now I have an 13.3" lol
[00:30] <BUGabundo> dobey: netbook?
[00:30] <dobey> no
[00:30] <dobey> my current laptop is 10.3"
[00:30] <dobey> my new laptop is 5.6" (should be here sometime next week)
[00:32] <BUGabundo> 5.6"??
[00:32] <BUGabundo> that's NOT an Laptop
[00:32] <BUGabundo> that's a MID
[00:34] <dobey> no, it's a laptop
[00:34] <dobey> it has a 300dpi screen (1280x768)
[00:35] <BUGabundo> damn
[00:35] <BUGabundo> send me a pic of it latter
[00:37] <dobey> oh, it will definitely be blogged about :)
[00:38] <BUGabundo> humm some OEM with ubuntu?
[00:38] <BUGabundo> or N97?
[00:39] <dobey> it will be interesting to see if my workflow changes on it
[00:39] <dobey> no, it comes with vista sadly enough
[00:39] <dobey> it's a fujitsu u820
[00:39] <BUGabundo> don't know ut
[00:39] <BUGabundo> *it
[00:40] <BUGabundo> any good link about it?
[00:40] <BUGabundo> or are you going to make me google it ?
[00:40] <BUGabundo> ehe
[00:41] <dobey> http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=U820
[00:50] <dobey> oh, 1280x800 even
[00:51] <BUGabundo> dobey: can't you request a refound of Vista, if you don't use it?
[00:53] <dobey> probably
[00:54] <BUGabundo> so why don't you ?
[00:54] <BUGabundo> and you are lucky
[00:54] <BUGabundo> Here its very hard to get it
[00:54] <dobey> i've never used vista
[00:55] <BUGabundo> and even worse for OEM installs
[00:55] <BUGabundo> dobey: heheh I did.... for a full morning on a former job
[00:55] <dobey> might as well keep the license in case i want to install it on something :)
[00:55] <BUGabundo> then I booted my laptop to test the network
[00:55] <BUGabundo> Vista was awful for it
[00:55] <BUGabundo> dobey: you can't... its an OEM license
[00:56] <BUGabundo> only legally valid for that HW
[00:56] <dobey> i have lots of OEM laptops
[00:56] <dobey> i don't think it comes with media for it anyway
[00:56] <BUGabundo> and you strip the MSFT license ?
[00:57] <BUGabundo> some allow you to make a bootble dvd
[00:58] <dobey> well, the laptop doesn't have an optical drive at all
[01:00] <dobey> part of the reason it only weighs 1.3lbs :)
[01:01] <BUGabundo> and that is in KGs?
[01:01] <BUGabundo> I had the same prob on the site
[01:01] <dobey> like 2.5Kg i think
[01:02] <BUGabundo> ah
[01:02] <BUGabundo> my 13.3 is 2KG plus battery
[01:02] <BUGabundo> so your math is wrong
[01:02] <BUGabundo> eheh
[01:03] <dobey> almost all the weight is in the battery
[01:03] <dobey> speaking of which... 7+ hr of battery life will be nice too :)
[01:07] <BUGabundo> don't count on it using Linux
[01:07] <BUGabundo> windows still does a better job on power managing
[01:07] <BUGabundo> you can extend yours using a few tricks
[01:07] <BUGabundo> like using PowerTop
[01:07] <BUGabundo> and changing the disk state (for rotatory ones, of course)
[01:08] <BUGabundo> from 254 to 128 or lower
[01:08] <BUGabundo> turning off BT and wifi when not needed
[01:08] <BUGabundo> set a good brigth display
[01:08] <BUGabundo> I tried to file a bug upstream on GNOME to create Energy Power Profiles
[01:09] <BUGabundo> it was closed, just saying the discussing had already happened
[01:09] <BUGabundo> n0k11 ja vais no 11 ?
[01:09] <dobey> eh, i get 3+ hours on my current laptop which is 3 years old
[01:09] <BUGabundo> mine doesn't last more then 2h
[01:09] <BUGabundo> and that with everything OFF
[01:10] <BUGabundo> playing a movie only lasts me 1-1:30
[01:10] <dobey> i'm not getting the HSUPA card, so that won't eat up all my battery
[01:10] <BUGabundo> its a 6 cell battery
[01:10] <n0k11> BUGabundo: lol
[01:11] <dobey> i got the 4 cell for this one
[01:11] <dobey> (hooray for free upgrades)
[01:11] <dobey> a 6 cell on it would probably get around 12 hours
[01:11] <dobey> BUGabundo: do you have a core duo or something?
[01:12] <dobey> atom is much better at not using up battery :)
[01:13] <Ng> am I being incredibly dumb, or is there no way to upgrade from a free account to a paying account?
[01:13] <Ng> (at the moment)
[01:13] <BUGabundo> dobey: yes. C2D at 2.4GHz T8300
[01:13] <dobey> well, there's your problem
[01:14] <BUGabundo> n0k11 ou e' codigo binario ?
[01:14] <dobey> Ng: i think that's a bug that is being fixed, yes :)
[01:14] <dobey> ok, notify-osd is officially not particularly useful for me
[01:14] <BUGabundo> dobey: but at idle it can just use 1.2 GHz
[01:14] <dobey> i just saw a notification and didn't have time to read it
[01:14] <n0k11> BUGabundo: nao
[01:14] <Ng> dobey: fair enough :)
[01:14] <jcastro> Ng: I couldn't find a way either
[01:15] <n0k11> BUGabundo: a luz foi a baixo e o meu desktop k faz de router tb foi a baixo
[01:15] <Ng> jcastro: I'm not in a huge hurry to do it, but I don't want to miss out on the good stuff when it starts to appear ;)
[01:15] <Ng> I mean the even better stuff
[01:15] <n0k11> BUGabundo: e o irc nao desconectou devidamente e ainda ta la o n0k1 ligado
[01:15] <BUGabundo> n0k11 one word (no pun intended) UPS
[01:16] <BUGabundo> Ng: I'm sure the sleepy dobey or any other coredev can upgrade you
[01:16] <n0k11> BUGabundo: e com a trovoada k tem estado eu já me lembrei disso lol
[01:16]  * BUGabundo if U1 had referals as DP as, I would already have a 20GiBs account
[01:16] <dobey> i don't have ng's credit info, unfortunately
[01:17] <Ng> yeah I'm not going to start giving out my credit card details willy nilly ;)
[01:17] <BUGabundo> n0k11 so se for de Sol
[01:17] <BUGabundo> Ng: LOL
[01:17] <dobey> ng, jcastro: bug #375312
[01:17] <Ng> ta
[01:17] <n0k11> BUGabundo: na semana passada esteve
[01:18] <dobey> BUGabundo: eh, my current laptop on powersave is 600MHz... new one will probably be at 800 on powersave :)
[01:18] <BUGabundo> eheh
[01:18] <Ng> aha, jdobrien's comment in there answers exactly the question I had, if I cancel and switch that way, I shouldn't lose any data \o/
[01:18] <BUGabundo> you do know some Kernel/power Gurus don't advice other state other then On Demand, right dobey?
[01:18] <BUGabundo> they even removed it from some applets
[01:19] <dobey> BUGabundo: i suppose that's why it always changes to that when i resume from suspend
[01:19] <BUGabundo> yep
[01:19] <BUGabundo> its on the kernel now. it defaults to Ondemand
[01:19] <dobey> Ng: yeah, we don't actively delete data (yet)
[01:20]  * BUGabundo points to apw
[01:22] <dobey> anyway, i'm sure i'll get the full 7+ hours
[01:23] <BUGabundo> let me know next week
[01:23] <BUGabundo> ehe
[01:25] <dobey> not sure when my free usb flash drive that came with it will show up though
[01:26] <BUGabundo> so much free stuff
[01:26] <BUGabundo> lol
[01:27] <BUGabundo> how much did it cost?
[01:27] <dobey> after i get a rebate check back, i think the total will be $1249 USD
[01:28] <dobey> the hard disk upgrade to 120G wasn't free
[01:28] <dobey> and the vga/ethernet adapter cable wasn't free
[01:31] <BUGabundo> so going with rotatory and not SSD?
[01:31] <dobey> SSD is still too slow/expensive
[01:32] <dobey> the 64GB SSD option is +$1100 :(
[01:32] <dobey> it's a 1.8" drive also
[01:32] <dobey> so it's really expensive
[01:33] <dobey> 2.5" would be relatively cheap, comparitively :)
[01:35] <dobey> i don't really want to pay twice as much for the machine, for only 4GB more :)
[01:36] <dobey> if it was 1TB SSD, then maybe... :)
[05:09] <imadering> hi all
[05:12] <imadering> I have a problem. I can not delete files in its ubuntuone. I identify the file (Uploaded by me earlier) and click the "Delete", but nothing happens. What would it be?
[08:00] <leoquant> After closing ubuntuone the syncdeamon stay's on "aler"?
[08:01] <leoquant> i' am not able to create a new subfolder
[08:01] <leoquant> the ubuntuone webpage keeps on loading....
[08:02] <leoquant> (thats all ) ツ
[10:00] <repete> hi all
[12:50] <refic> hello
[13:59] <artir> something new in the last U1 update?
[14:07] <refic> dunno, wish I got my invitation
[14:15] <toros> artir: new U1 update?
[14:17] <toros> I don't see here anything new: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/beta
[14:17] <toros> or you mean the nightlies? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/nightlies
[14:20] <artir> I just had an update
[14:20] <artir> probablt a nighlty
[16:50] <webm0nk3y> mattgriffin: skype or irc?
[17:21] <dogsthat> greets peeps, is there any info about how to _sync_ with ubuntuone?
[17:25] <dogsthat> or do I have to use something like Grsync?
[21:43] <BUGabundo> guud evening


[06:01] <nigelb> eeee233
[06:02] <nigelb> bah
[08:18] <popey> Morning all
[08:18] <czajkowski> ello
[08:19] <czajkowski> popey: hows your first sprint going?
[08:21] <popey> excellent
[08:21] <czajkowski> popey: have you seen anything like http://twitpic.com/85czwx  on P machines?
[08:23] <popey> ooer
[08:23] <czajkowski> so thats happen a lot on this as of yesterday
[08:24] <czajkowski> when I open things it gets corrupted the images
[08:24] <czajkowski> irc flashes to white or I can see my desktop instead of irc - very anoying when that happens
[08:26] <popey> i may have a similar issue
[08:27] <popey> screen doesn't always refresh
[08:27] <popey> is that terminal window running irssi in screen? the corrupted one?
[08:27] <czajkowski> yes
[08:27] <czajkowski> but look along the side dash bar
[08:27] <czajkowski> all the icons are corrupted
[08:27] <AlanBell> snowy icons
[08:28] <czajkowski> gordonjcp has similar issues also
[08:41] <popey> oh hang on
[08:41] <popey> is this your new ultrabook?
[08:42] <czajkowski> popey: yes
[08:43] <popey> what video card is it?
[08:43] <czajkowski> whats the line to get that again
[08:44] <popey> lshw -C video
[08:45] <czajkowski> *-display                description: VGA compatible controller product: 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller vendor: Intel Corporation physical id: 2 bus info: pci@0000:00:02.0 version: 09 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: msi pm vga_controller bus_master cap_list rom configuration: driver=i915 latency=0
[08:45] <czajkowski>  resources: irq:4 memory:c0000000-c03fffff memory:b0000000-bfffffcff ioport:2000(size=64)
[08:47] <popey> what cpu is it?
[08:47] <popey> grep Intel /proc/cpuinfo
[08:48] <czajkowski> 1.6
[08:48] <czajkowski> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2467M CPU @ 1.60GHz
[08:52] <popey> probably nothing we can do
[08:53] <popey> i have the same issue on my desktop which has a similar CPU/GPU
[08:53] <popey> I get corruption when playing minecraft
[08:53] <popey> I spoke to the kernel guys at the airport on sunday, and they basically laughed at me
[08:54] <czajkowski> :/
[08:54] <czajkowski> always helpful to have laughing enginners :/
[08:55] <czajkowski> popey: any reasons why am seeing it some days and not others?
[08:55] <popey> file a bug against the kernel
[08:55] <popey> ubuntu-bug linux
[08:56] <popey> and poke cking with the bug number and tell him if he laughs I'll come over and give him a chinese burn
[08:57] <czajkowski> ok
[08:57] <popey> or apw, they were the two who laughed at me, doubt they'd laugh as much for you.
[08:57] <czajkowski> apw - andy
[08:57] <czajkowski> he bloody well better not
[08:59] <czajkowski> The problem cannot be reported:
[08:59] <czajkowski> This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again
[08:59] <czajkowski> bah
[09:01] <czajkowski> popey: any idea how I go around that issue to log the bug?
[09:03] <popey> eh
[09:04] <popey> oh, ubuntu-bug linux-image
[09:04] <popey> my bad
[09:04] <czajkowski> hardly your bad you're helping
[09:05] <bkerensa> :D
[09:06] <popey> it was suggested to me that I should not have bought an intel based device this year, but should wait for the next generation, or buy the previous generation
[09:07] <popey> current gen Intel stuff is 'tick', next will be 'tock'.
[09:08] <czajkowski> popey: thanks for the help - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/914167
[09:08] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 914167 in linux "application images on system seem corrupted " [Undecided,New]
[09:09] <popey> can you try logging in using unity 2d instead?
[09:10] <czajkowski> hmm need to install that
[09:10] <popey> its installed by default
[09:10] <czajkowski> hmm how do I change to it so
[09:10] <czajkowski> lemmie go have a look
[09:11] <popey> logout, when you login click the cog and choose unity 2d
[09:11] <czajkowski> done
[09:11] <czajkowski> now in 2d
[09:12] <popey> see if you get corruption
[09:12] <czajkowski> hmm
[09:12] <czajkowski> doesnt seem to be
[09:13] <czajkowski> shall try and move things around
[09:13] <czajkowski> popey: thanks for the help
[09:14] <czajkowski> nope it happens to a lesser extent
[09:14] <czajkowski> dasher icons so far are ok
[09:15] <popey> ok, another thing you can do...
[09:15] <popey> http://marianochavero.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/a-simple-gui-for-unity-2d-settings-ubuntu-11-04/
[09:15] <popey> install that
[09:16] <popey> and then untick the 'Enable compositing'
[09:16] <czajkowski> ahh ok
[09:16] <czajkowski> will do thanks
[09:17] <czajkowski> gonna lie down for a bit and come back, need to rest back and turn
[13:43] <nigelb> lol http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/12/14
[13:49] <Pendulum> jussi: CONGRATS!
[13:50] <nigelb> OH
[13:50] <nigelb> where are the details?
[13:50] <nigelb> ha
[13:50] <nigelb> facebook
[13:51] <nigelb> jussi: CONGRATULATIONS!
[13:58] <Pici> jussi: congrats :)
[13:58] <Pici> to your wife too :)
[14:14] <snap-l> Bah, Facebook is not OSS, and plays fast and loose with your data, so no congratulations for using Facebook. </sarcasm>
[14:14] <snap-l> That said, Congratulations jussi on whatever awesomeness just happened. :)
[14:14] <mhall119> jussi +1'd
[14:15] <mhall119> congrats jussi
[14:40] <mhall119> jono: jcastro: dpm: balloons: dholbach: good morning
[14:40] <dholbach> mhall119, hello! :)
[14:40] <dpm> hey, good morning mhall119
[14:40] <dholbach> how are you doing?
[14:40] <mhall119> good
[14:40] <mhall119> dholbach: did you get my email about the bug stats graphs?
[14:41] <dholbach> mhall119, yes, but I got<PHONE_NUMBER>0 other emails as well since I left for Morocco :)
[14:41] <dholbach> looking into it now
[14:41] <dpm> mhall119, we might need to start the hangout later on, as jcastro and his dedicated hangout tablet are not in the room right now
[14:41] <mhall119> ah yes, the post-vacation inbox explosion
[14:41] <dholbach> it's madness
[14:42] <mhall119> dpm: I'm not going to do a hangout full time, since it crashed my laptop pretty hard yesterday
[14:42]  * MrChrisDruif feels left out
[14:42] <dpm> mhall119, no worries, I was just mentioning in case you felt like it - I hope the laptop survived!
[14:43] <mhall119> dpm: had to reboot it again for it to remember that I have a sound card
[14:44] <mhall119> which had me worried that there was permanent damage for a bit yesterday
[14:44] <dpm> ouch
[14:44] <mhall119> yeah
[14:44] <mhall119> I may get jcastro to just pull be up on skype audio, since it's the video that kills me
[14:45] <jono> hey mhall119 :-)
[14:55] <balloons> hey mhall119!
[14:55] <mhall119> jono: I shared a doc with you
[14:55] <jono> thanks mhall119
[14:55] <mhall119> I've also got one of the sumo devs helping me identify what all the apps do
[14:55] <jono> awesome
[14:55] <jono> which doc is it? I don't see the share
[14:55] <dholbach> mhall119, I PMed you
[14:55] <mhall119> sent to jono<at>u.c
[14:56] <jono> mhall119, got it
[14:56] <jono> one sec, wrapping up an email
[14:56] <james_w> hey dholbach, how was the vacation?
[14:56] <dholbach> james_w, NICE
[14:56] <dholbach> loved it, especially the days in the desert
[14:56] <james_w> great
[14:57] <mhall119> dholbach: did daker give you a tour?
[14:57] <dholbach> when the dust settles a bit, I'll upload a few pictures
[14:57] <james_w> are we going to be hunting out Moroccan restaurants at the next UDS?
[14:57] <dholbach> mhall119, yes, we met him in Rabat, he took off half a day to show us around
[14:57] <dholbach> it was great
[14:57] <dholbach> james_w, I'm totally up for it
[14:58] <daker> hello ツ
[14:58] <dholbach> hey daker
[14:58]  * dholbach hugs daker
[14:58]  * dholbach hugs daker
[14:58]  * dholbach hugs daker
[14:59]  * daker hugs dholbach back
[15:07] <scott-work> good morning everyone
[15:07]  * scott-work had been having trouble getting over sickness but is feeling more himself now :)
[15:15] <scott-work> jono: just read your blog about LTS, should ubuntu studio be worried about this?
[15:18] <popey> scott-work: i dont think so, the others are going LTS because the specifically requested it
[15:22] <scott-work> popey: jono and i had talked specifically about this at uds :/   although i admit that i didn't specifically request this as such.....hmmmmm
[15:24] <scott-work> maybe i'm being touchy or sensitive, but i'm pretty dedicated to getting and keeping ubuntu studio at a certain level of quality
[15:25] <mhall119> scott-work: it could just be due to the nature of the apps that would have to be supported in studio
[15:26] <mhall119> since the support is back-porting fixes into older versions of the app
[15:31] <scott-work> from another perspective, here's my larger concern (moving my personal feelings aside)....
[15:32] <scott-work> i feel strongly about having an LTS version of ubuntu studio simply because i believe a majority of our users need (nay, crave) stability
[15:32] <scott-work> i'm at work, so i'll pursue this during lunch though
[15:35] <jono> scott-work, nothing to worry about
[15:35] <jono> derivs and flavors need to apply to the TB to be an LTS
[15:36] <jono> Canonical does not provide LTS support to them
[15:37] <AlanBell> wouldn't they get LTS support for most of the plumbing for free just because they share the repos though?
[15:52] <czajkowski> jussi: congrats!!!
[15:53] <cprofitt> congrats?
[15:53] <cprofitt> did the baby arrive?
[15:53] <czajkowski> yes
[15:53] <cprofitt> Woohoo!! Congrats jussi
[16:00] <jono> mhall119, so I just opened up that spreadsheet
[16:00] <jono> not entirely sure what it is
[16:00] <jono> can you explain?
[16:00] <jono> jussi, baby arrived?
[16:00] <jono> nice!
[16:01] <jono> congrats Jussi!
[16:01] <jono> I am sure you will be a rocking dad :-)
[16:01] <mhall119> jono: it's the list of django apps used by sumo
[16:01] <jono> mhall119, gotcha
[16:01] <mhall119> jono: I'm using it to identify what each one does, and whether we need it/can reuse it or not
[16:02] <jono> so what I am keen to understand is given the default installation of Sumo, how well does it meet our needs for help.ubuntu.com, and where it doesn't, what work would be required for it to meet our needs?
[16:02] <jono> kind of like a spec
[16:02] <mhall119> jono: yeah, this is step 1 of getting to there: knowing *what* sumo does
[16:03] <jono> mhall119, ahhh gotcha
[16:03] <jono> mhall119, thanks for doing this
[16:03] <jono> mhall119, is there any way I can play with the instance you set up?
[16:07] <mhall119> jono: I only get it setup on my laptop, but I can install it on canonistack if you want
[16:14] <jono> mhall119, yes please
[16:14] <jono> mhall119, maybe ask jcastro how much work would be involved in writing a Charm too
[16:16] <mhall119> ok
[16:16] <mhall119> is jcastro back in the room now?
[16:21] <dholbach> nope
[16:23] <dholbach> he just came back
[16:23] <dholbach> mhall119, ^
[16:24]  * mhall119 waves at jcastro
[16:38] <mhall119> jono: are you available to /join #sumodev on mozilla?
[16:38] <jono> mhall119, one sec
[16:38] <mhall119> thanks
[16:40] <jono> mhall119, struggling to get connected
[16:40] <jono> too many hosts from my IP apparently
[16:42] <mhall119> jono: no worries, someone's asking for more specifically what we want to get out of using sumo that we don't get from wiki.u.c and forums.u.c
[16:42] <mhall119> since a lot of what sumo provides is a wiki and forums
[16:43] <jono> mhall119, I think we want a more integrated experience, easier editing, integrated translations, better structure for the content, better search etc
[16:44] <mhall119> ok
[16:45] <mhall119> so we're okay with having duplicate functionalty from wiki.u.c, forums.u.c, launchpad karma and askubuntu?
[16:47] <jono> dholbach, https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html
[16:49] <dholbach> nice
[17:25] <mhall119> wow, that's a long list of requirements
[17:27] <mhall119> cable guy is here, time for *another* new DVR
[17:27]  * mhall119 wants an Ubuntu TV set-top box so bad
[17:27] <cjohnston> lol
[17:27] <cjohnston> there is a ppa mhall119
[17:28] <mhall119> I know, but the ppa doesn't come with hardware
[17:29] <cjohnston> lol
[17:29] <mhall119> dang, everyone' done already
[18:02] <daker> hey mhall119, small question pls
[18:02] <daker> is this http://pastebin.com/AjeFMaEV good or bad ?
[18:02] <daker> the CPU usage of java process
[18:02] <mhall119> daker: what are you running in java?
[18:02] <daker> openfire
[18:03] <mhall119> it's been years since I've played with openfire, but I don't remmeber it doing that
[18:03] <mhall119> it certainly doesn't *look* good to me
[18:03] <daker> it's always between 99% & 103%
[18:04] <mhall119> how many clients are connecting to it?
[18:04] <daker> only one
[18:05] <daker> it's just pushing infos to openfire every 3/4mins
[18:07] <mhall119> wow, it shouldn't be that high then
[18:07] <mhall119> daker: what kind of server is it on?
[18:08] <daker> webserver
[18:08] <mhall119> it's not an Amazon EC2 micro is it?
[18:08] <daker> no
[18:08] <mhall119> ok
[18:12] <daker> thanks mhall119
[18:12] <mhall119> np
[19:33]  * JanC remembers some friends who ran an Openfire server several years ago; they had to restart it every couple of days because it leaked memory like hell...
[19:33] <JanC> they didn't complain about CPU though
[20:32] <doctormon> pleia2: Could you have a look over my blog http://doctormo.org/2012/01/10/3706/ before I post it?
[20:36]  * pleia2 has a look
[20:38] <pleia2> doctormon: that's good :)
[20:39] <doctormon> Thanks, no suggestions or confusions?
[20:40] <pleia2> it does leave a wide open question of "ok, so this is what we want to do, but how?" but I think that can be answered in a later post :)
[20:43] <doctormon> Good point, I still have some cleaning up and some drawings to do. But perhaps a to be continued...
[20:47] <mhall119> doctormon: you mention the ability of word of mouth to cross teh chasm, but also the fact that word of mouth has slowed down or stopped being effective at increasing mindshare
[20:48] <JanC> it hasn't stopped being effective to increase mindshare, but it has stopped to be new...
[20:48] <mhall119> have you considered the possibility that we're running up against the limit or word-of-mouth?
[20:48] <mhall119> limit *of*
[20:48] <JanC> which means less attention in the press   ;)
[21:02] <JanC> doctormon: what exactly do you refer to with "But the message got old over the years, the faith and the vitality has waned and public relations issues have made the message of spreading Ubuntu to everyone you know less appealing and seem more risky"
[21:02] <doctormon> mhall119: just the limit of those involved to tell the same stories
[21:04] <JanC> because I know that we lost a lot of enthusiasm with Canonical pushing half-finished projects onto unsuspecting users...
[21:04] <mhall119> doctormon: good point, I guess the 'chasm' then is to get people outside of our FLOSS groups talking about it
[21:05] <doctormon> mhall119: If we can just get people inside FLOSS groups to talk about it ;-)
[21:05] <mhall119> they aren't?
[21:06] <doctormon> Not really, some are, but it's not a culture of story telling.
[21:06] <JanC> I guess that depends on what FOSS group
[21:12] <mhall119> bkerensa: you're in Oregon right?
[21:13] <czajkowski> I really hate the word FLOSS
[21:14] <czajkowski> prefer the word FOSS to be used
[21:14] <mhall119> FLOSS is AWESOME!
[21:14]  * mhall119 knows you love me ;)
[21:14] <czajkowski> hard to get new people involved when they heard the word floss, they assume it;s to do with cleaning ones teeth
[21:14] <doctormon> agreed
[21:14] <czajkowski> mhall119: dont press my buttons this week :)
[21:15] <mhall119> this is the best time, it's not like you can do anything to me
[21:15] <mhall119> it's when you're healthy that I'll have to watch out
[21:15] <czajkowski> mhall119: course there is, one word to the higher being
[21:15] <czajkowski> mhall119: http://twitpic.com/85koay
[21:15] <czajkowski> it's been a long few days
[21:16] <mhall119> ouch
[21:16] <doctormon> that looks medical...
[21:16] <czajkowski> aye had surgery on my back last friday
[21:16] <mhall119> czajkowski: how long did they say the recovery period will be?
[21:16] <czajkowski> much better now and at home
[21:16] <czajkowski> 4-6 weeks
[21:16] <doctormon> congratulations on I pressume sucessful surgury?
[21:17] <mhall119> any surgery you wake up from...
[21:17] <czajkowski> hhope so
[21:17] <czajkowski> feel better but sore
[21:17] <mhall119> czajkowski: I can't imagine going through that...
[21:18] <bkerensa> mhall119: Correct
[21:18] <czajkowski> mhall119: so no using the word floss and setting me off shall we :)
[21:18] <mhall119> bkerensa: you know there guys? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/a-first-look-at-ctls-ubuntu-product-lineup/
[21:18]  * doctormon gives czajkowski a rare but pain free hug
[21:18] <mhall119> czajkowski: I'll do my best
[21:19] <czajkowski> right and back to Sherlock
[21:19] <czajkowski> toodles
[21:19] <czajkowski> <---- offline
[21:20] <JanC> czajkowski: you *will* recover before FOSDEM, right?  :P
[21:20] <bkerensa> mhall119: Yes I know them
[21:21] <bkerensa> they invited me to a corporate BBQ last summer
[21:21] <doctormon> Is the new sherlock out yet?  They have a Mac guy doing it right now :P I declined though
[21:25] <bkerensa> apparently they are planning to get Ubuntu Certified
[21:26] <bkerensa> and also considering becoming a corporate member of Linux Foundation and they asked my thoughts on whether it would benefit them
[21:26] <doctormon> bkerensa: Who is this they?
[21:26] <bkerensa> CTL's Director of Business Development and their Exec VP and COO
[21:27] <bkerensa> a Laptop, Tablet, Server and TV manufacturer
[21:29] <doctormon> bkerensa: Huh and they have an Ubuntu job going spare? :-)
[21:30] <bkerensa> Yeah if you live in the U.S. but they asked me to shop my colleagues for someone qualified to handle the role and I asked Benjamin Kero at Mozilla if he wants the gig and I think he is going to hop on it
[21:30] <bkerensa> :D
[21:30] <bkerensa> It requires being Portland based
[21:30] <bkerensa> :P


[06:01] <herve> do we?
[06:01] <ogra> yep
[06:01] <dholbach> yes
[06:01] <ogra> HELLOO MOTUs
[06:01] <dholbach> who of the MOTU crew or MOTU interests is here?
[06:01] <ogra> me
[06:01] <dholbach> me too
[06:02] <dholbach> nice :-)
[06:02] <dholbach> hey tseng|work
[06:02] <ogra> hey tseng|work
[06:02] <tseng|work> heya daniel
[06:02] <dholbach> can you think of anything else not put on MOTUMeeting?
[06:02] <ogra> next meeting date
[06:02] <tseng|work> hi ogra, herve
[06:02] <dholbach> it's on there :-)
[06:03] <ogra> we should put it there as a standard entry
[06:03] <herve> hi tseng|work, seb128
[06:03] <seb128> Hi herve
[06:03] <ogra> dholbach, do you want to lead this time ?
[06:03] <dholbach> ok... shall we just start from the top?
[06:03] <ogra> as you like :)
[06:04] <dholbach> ogra: ok, i'll take notes of it as well
[06:04] <dholbach> 1) MOTUTeams - who's interested? What do we do? When do we start?
[06:04] <ogra> we have logs ;)
[06:04] <tseng|work> MOTUMONO!
[06:04] <tseng|work> we rock so hard.
[06:04] <dholbach> ok... i think we REALLY need teams soon and make the idea public
[06:04] <herve> I think I'm already in python & zope teamns
[06:04] <ogra> yeah
[06:04] <herve> (teams)
[06:04] <dholbach> and gather interested people
[06:04] <herve> with ajmitch & doko where appropriate
[06:05] <dholbach> who can have heads up, squash bugs and whatever
[06:05] <herve> I think teams are important for running projects
[06:05] <herve> because squashing bugs... we already do it
[06:05] <dholbach> i want to fix a date with koke, seb128 and jdub for the MOTUGNOME team
[06:05] <dholbach> and collect ideas
[06:05] <dholbach> and announce them to the public real soon now
[06:06] <dholbach> because poor seb128 is overrun by the amount of bugs
[06:06] <ogra> dholbach, oh, the bugday is missing from the agenda, i'd like to talk about it at the end...
[06:06] <dholbach> ogra: ok, if you'd put it on
[06:06] <dholbach> can you think of stuff we should do to make this process of team building fluent and rocking?
[06:06] <ogra> if mozilla lets me log in without crash ;P
[06:06] <dholbach> :-)
[06:07] <herve> dholbach, what kind of tools?
[06:07] <dholbach> tools in what sense?
[06:07] <dholbach> i already wrote http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto, but i'm not sure, if that's all we'd have to do to get going
[06:07] <herve> to assist the work
[06:08] <tseng|work> if you have an idea for a tool
[06:08] <tseng|work> write it up please
[06:08] <dholbach> it'd be lovely if we could drag in the talented, patient and gifted people into the motu team
[06:08] <tseng|work> i am getting pretty good at webapps in php/mysql
[06:08] <tseng|work> and shell scripting
[06:08] <tseng|work> ogra rocks at python
[06:08] <ogra> heh, i'm still learning :)
[06:09] <dholbach> but there are things that each team needs to sort out individually
[06:09] <dholbach> i mean there are loads of tasks, like enhancing, fixing, ...
[06:09] <dholbach> what ideas do you have to get teams going?
[06:09] <dholbach> you can start with the ideas for your team
[06:10] <dholbach> they could serve as a good example for all of them
[06:10] <dholbach> or is it too early/late for a braindump? :-)
[06:10] <ogra> we just do it .... in the mono team
[06:11] <dholbach> don't you plan to "go live", make it public? attract the masses? :-)
[06:11] <herve> ogra stole my words
[06:11] <ogra> but there is no extensive planning, meeting or coordination except what we talk on IRC
[06:11] <herve> yo \sh!
[06:11] <\sh> just in time
[06:11] <\sh> woke up 3 mins before start
[06:11] <dholbach> from what i know, you could really do with some additional hands on deck, right?
[06:12] <ogra> but mono is a special case, i think with the amount of packages we ont need more then 3 ppl
[06:12] <ogra> but testers ar fine
[06:12] <dholbach> but for fixing? getting new stuff in? the nice and cozy feeling in the team?
[06:12] <ogra> sure, but there are other teams that are in a more worse state
[06:12] <dholbach> of course
[06:13] <ogra> or havent even started to exist
[06:13] <dholbach> i just wanted to ask everybody "as a team member"
[06:13] <dholbach> and collect ideas and plans
[06:13] <dholbach> to make it as easy as possible for everyone
[06:13] <ogra> ure
[06:13] <dholbach> i already wrote http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto, but i'm not sure, if that's all we'd have to do
[06:14] <herve> sadly, the python and zope teams don't really exist, so no experience to share here
[06:14] <dholbach> herve: any plans to make it happen?
[06:14] <ogra> yeah, take the lea
[06:14] <ogra> d
[06:15] <herve> I wonder for the need, first
[06:15] <dholbach> there are loads of packages the python team could take care of :-)
[06:15] <dholbach> and steer whatever is to be done
[06:16] <dholbach> we could even divide UniverseCandidates into sections
[06:16] <dholbach> and get stuff in on a team basis
[06:16] <dholbach> ok, if you feel this is the wrong topic or there's nothing to discuss yet, shall we just proceed?
[06:16] <\sh> i think it's a nice idea
[06:16] <\sh> and a good one :)
[06:17] <dholbach> to proceed?
[06:17] <ogra> dholbach, first target should be to get more people in, teams will start to form themselves (see siretart and Burgundavia.... )
[06:18] <dholbach> ogra: of course, but i think we should announce the building of teams on all of our mailing lists with a variety of ideas and plans to attract people and show them a place where they could fit into
[06:18] <herve> dholbach, if we need to coordinate work between doko, ajmitch, d3vic3 and myself, then the team will exist
[06:18] <dholbach> not dicatingly but just to show what's going on
[06:18] <herve> for now, we just handle work as it happens
[06:18] <\sh> ogra: well...I think the most difficult thing is to get the people in anyways. they need to know where they should start
[06:19] <\sh> there r a lot of people working for kde stuff, gnome stuff, but don't bother to take workloads from others..(new packages, fixing packages etc.)
[06:20] <dholbach> i agree with you, \sh
[06:20] <\sh> to address them we should have things like teams settled down. and yes, right now, everybody takes everything like it comes :) how many motus are there at all :)
[06:20] <dholbach> \sh: just not enough :-)
[06:21] <\sh> i can only speak for me right now, cause I experienced the problems to start with "something".
[06:21] <ogra> 16 are on the wikipage... but thats not up to date afaik
[06:21] <ogra> \sh, there is always a transition to start with ;)
[06:21] <\sh> "with what do I start? new packages, fixing bugs in packages etc. pp"
[06:21] <ogra> and afterwards you will feel useles... and just form a team :)
[06:21] <\sh> ogra: but not everybody has a nice "pusher" like u :)
[06:21] <dholbach> i think promoting a team spirit would help people a lot
[06:22] <ogra> dholbach, go ahead, i already wrote several mails to the ML about the teams.... the response was always very silent....
[06:22] <dholbach> ogra: i will
[06:22] <dholbach> ogra: no it isnt
[06:23] <\sh> to explain what i mean: for many people there is no such thing like a "tutoring device" like ogra was for me, or the rest of my experiences in OSS at all
[06:23] <dholbach> but we need visions, plans and ideas to let the message sink into people
[06:23] <ogra> \sh, there is....
[06:23] <ogra> \sh, thats what the cannel is for ;)
[06:23] <dholbach> "fix a random bug" - "take care of a random package" is not the warm welcoming feeling we want to give to people
[06:23] <\sh> dholbach: that's what I mean
[06:24] <\sh> and we know all, there r people who r not shy and start working on "something" like ivoks
[06:24] <ogra> many of them come with NEW packages... we should encourage more to go for bugfixes
[06:24] <tseng|work> do people who can fix bugs need a warm feeling?
[06:24] <dholbach> tseng|work: yes they do :-)
[06:24] <ogra> since starting with a NEW package from scratch is not easy...
[06:24] <ogra> tseng|work, dont you ?
[06:25] <tseng|work> i fixed a bug in tcl binding linking in rrdtool
[06:25] <dholbach> to be honest, i didn't want to join the #ubuntu-devel crowd at first, because i was a bit afraid, i "couldnt do it"
[06:25] <tseng|work> i did not feel "warm"
[06:25] <tseng|work> :)
[06:25] <dholbach> and i needed a bit of persuasion :-)
[06:25] <\sh> ogra: e.g. cxx transitions .. i was a little bit scared to try something new for me :) but I'll tried and there r others who r not like me "to try" they need a guiding hand (this is also an idea for a team ;)))
[06:25] <ogra> tseng|work, because you didnt fix it for ubuntu ?
[06:26] <\sh> "the ubuntu work primary school"
[06:26] <ogra> \sh, i dont say teams are bad (in fact i was the creator of the wiki page) i just think it will work by itself...
[06:26] <dholbach> would it help, if we announced "team founding meetings"?
[06:26] <tseng|work> ogra: i fixed it in gentoo.. its not broken in ubuntu atm
[06:27] <ogra> people come in and look for a place....
[06:27] <ogra> tseng|work, you see, thats why ;)
[06:27] <tseng|work> k
[06:27] <dholbach> ogra: you're right, it will happen - nobody will be forced into it
[06:27] <ogra> a fixed ubuntu package has a builtin "warm feeing factor"
[06:27] <herve> dholbach, the harder is to make people come into #ubuntu-motu, then we can guide them where appropriate
[06:28] <ogra> dholbach, thats not what i meant...forced :)
[06:28] <dholbach> ogra: of course
[06:28] <dholbach> herve: what do you mean?
[06:29] <herve> nothing special
[06:29] <herve> just to make people involved
[06:29] <herve> not necessarly make them sign in a team
[06:29] <\sh> herve: that is :) one of the problem all projects have
[06:29] <dholbach> ah ok
[06:30] <dholbach> the feeling of "there's something happening" and "people instantly got things done" is what we need to promote
[06:30] <dholbach> and ideas and plans can help with that
[06:30] <dholbach> not everybody fights his way into the python team on day 1
[06:30] <\sh> we need more PR and marketing...buttons, caps, cups, mousepads ;)
[06:30] <dholbach> hahahaaa :-)
[06:31] <dholbach> that's topic 4)
[06:31] <dholbach> ;-)
[06:31] <\sh> well, it sounds funny :)
[06:31] <dholbach> ok, shall we draw a line here?
[06:31] <ogra> yep
[06:31] <dholbach> ok
[06:31] <ogra> you make an announcement ?
[06:31] <dholbach> 2)  current status of things
[06:31] <herve> \sh, thongs too? :-)
[06:31] <dholbach> herve: yes!!! :-)
[06:31] <ogra> heh
[06:31] <dholbach> ogra: i will take care of it
[06:31] <ogra> yeah, its getting summer
[06:31] <\sh> herve: sure why not for hot MOTU chicks ;)
[06:32] <dholbach> do you feel things in general should change?
[06:32] <dholbach> how do you feel towards ubuntu, motu and the universe atm?
[06:32] <herve> fine!
[06:32] <ogra> i feel very small facing the universe :)
[06:32] <herve> except I'd like malone would be ready
[06:32] <ogra> AND ITS EXPANDING !!
[06:33] <dholbach> herve: shall we fix a date for another meeting in ... say ... 2 weeks?
[06:33] <ogra> give it time... at least searching works...
[06:33] <dholbach> herve: just to insist on certain items on the list and hear about their status?
[06:33] <herve> dholbach, as you wish, I have no special requirement atm
[06:33] <dholbach> any other opinions?
[06:34] <herve> hmm...
[06:34] <ogra> let brad do his job, i think he has the list and has the prios
[06:34] <dholbach> of course, ogra, i won't be a pain in the neck
[06:34] <ogra> just check it from time to time
[06:34] <herve> ogra, I don't put pressure on him, just share my feeling
[06:34] <dholbach> i think i'll ask bradb to give me a status update in 2 weeks - i'll report to you
[06:35] <dholbach> everybody ok with that?
[06:35] <ogra> 2 weeks
[06:35] <ogra> isnt that the estimated 1.0 release date anyway ?
[06:35] <dholbach> i thought it was a bit later
[06:35] <\sh> one question more: who is in charge to upload anyways? I think we should point out who can be pinged for those things at all.
[06:35] <\sh> there is little information about this...;)
[06:35] <dholbach> \sh: all motus can
[06:35] <ogra> 6th or 9th of june ? i'm not sure
[06:35] <dholbach> ogra: i'll ask him
[06:35] <ogra> yep
[06:36] <\sh> dholbach: u have an updated list of motus? i could do some update on this page
[06:36] <ogra> dholbach, we have a meeting anyway, after this one ;)
[06:36] <dholbach> \sh's question leads to the next point which is related to 2):    3) feedback on current processes
[06:37] <dholbach> hrmbl i can't seem to be able to open the MOTU wiki page
[06:37] <ogra> heh, get a i386 :)
[06:37] <dholbach> \sh: i think the list is complete
[06:37] <ogra> was herve the last one ?
[06:37] <dholbach> herve and tritium
[06:37] <ogra> oh, sure, there were no TB meetings...
[06:38] <dholbach> "feedback on current processes"
[06:38] <dholbach> we have a lot of processes: NewMotu, NewPackages, MorguePackages, ReviewStuff ... - do you think we need to change stuff?
[06:39] <ogra> i dont like the wiki lists :) (as long as ff doenst allow searching in textinput fields)
[06:39] <herve> I think we need better tools than editing long wiki pages
[06:39] <\sh> I think the "NewPackages" and "ToReview" process via wiki is quite weired
[06:39] <herve> I think this issue is clear :-)
[06:39] <\sh> using malone or bugzilla is making more sense here
[06:39] <dholbach> herve: i think everybody would be delighted to hear plans of you on this one
[06:40] <ogra> probably a task for the zope/python team.... write a list managingt component for zope ;)
[06:40] <herve> I thought of a workflow driven application for reviews
[06:40] <dholbach> me included :-)
[06:40] <dholbach> oh yes
[06:40] <dholbach> that sounds rocking
[06:40] <ogra> isnt malone supposed to be exactly this ?
[06:40] <\sh> tseng said that he was fixing things in gentoo :)
[06:40] <\sh> and new stuff will go into bugzilla (in gentoo)
[06:40] <dholbach> can we open bugs on UNKNOWN stuff?
[06:41] <\sh> will be reviewed by the "devs"
[06:41] <\sh> and after reviewing it goes into the tree
[06:41] <dholbach> we could switch the review-thing over to malone
[06:41] <seb128> don't use a bug tracker for packages reviews
[06:41] <ogra> dholbach, not sure...
[06:41] <dholbach> seb128: we have proposed patches for c++ stuff in bugzilla atm
[06:41] <seb128> the bug flow is important enough
[06:41] <dholbach> seb128: that got me thinking
[06:41] <\sh> so malone/bugzilla is a good way also as workflow engine for reviewing
[06:42] <seb128> dholbach: imho you should really not use a bug tracker for that
[06:42] <\sh> seb128: request tracker can make also sense
[06:42] <seb128> these are not bugs
[06:42] <dholbach> seb128: doesnt debian handle it the same way?
[06:42] <seb128> better to use a mailing list
[06:42] <seb128> debian use the lists
[06:42] <dholbach> ah ok
[06:42] <dholbach> ubuntu-motu@ was more or less denied
[06:42] <herve> we won't have a mailing list?
[06:43] <dholbach> some folks feel it would be too much of separation
[06:43] <herve> seb128, yeah, "why debian would have *another* wiki engine!" :-)
[06:43] <\sh> well, i would favour more a webtoolized application
[06:43] <dholbach> seb128: mailing lists would be absolutely fine with me
[06:43] <herve> dholbach, but we need offline communication too
[06:43] <herve> I mean, asynchronous
[06:43] <dholbach> a mailing list would be cool for that
[06:44] <dholbach> we'd tell the guys to sign up for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to get their review status
[06:44] <ogra> hmm, why not web driven...
[06:44] <dholbach> because it would need another bit of code that's not there yet
[06:44] <ogra> just with a usable tool instead of a wiki....
[06:44] <herve> ogra, it could be web driven with notifications in a list, rss, etc.
[06:44] <seb128> dholbach: debian has http://bugs.debian.org/wnpp too
[06:44] <\sh> RT
[06:45] <ogra> herve, yep, thats what i thought of
[06:45] <dholbach> seb128: that's what i meant
[06:45] <Kamion> bugs.debian.org/wnpp is a bad hack
[06:45] <\sh> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/
[06:45] <seb128> dholbach: but the BTS doesn't handle the bugs the same way as bugzilla, ie: they is not list of bugs with that on the middle
[06:45] <Kamion> it works, but it creaks
[06:46] <herve> Kamion, only the result counts ;)-
[06:46] <dholbach> Kamion: do you think a mailing list for package reviews (maybe on a yet-to-com MOTU lists) would be more feasible?
[06:46] <\sh> a normal request tracker can do the work....email communication support, web driven, too and easy to adjust to send out jabber messages
[06:46] <Kamion> sure, but if you're implementing something new you should learn from previous mistakes
[06:46] <Kamion> dholbach: I don't really have an opinion, just replying to the debbugs thing
[06:46] <seb128> dholbach: my concern is that bugs are not going to be handled on the middle of the bug flox
[06:46] <seb128> flow
[06:46] <dholbach> Kamion: ok
[06:47] <Kamion> dholbach: (I'm not really here) it seems reasonable though
[06:47] <dholbach> :-)
[06:47] <\sh> well, i think the problem is what priority has "new packages and/or reviewing (bugfixed packages)"
[06:47] <ogra> there are hundrets of webdriven ticketsystems....
[06:47] <seb128> dholbach: if you want to be efficient on package review you need a way to make the distinction clear
[06:47] <dholbach> ok, i can make another call on the MOTU list topic and add the need for review stuff (maybe only as an interim solution)
[06:47] <herve> do someone listens to \sh's idea? :-)
[06:48] <\sh> ogra: I used an example i'd use in the past
[06:48] <dholbach> \sh: a high one
[06:48] <ogra> \sh, both have high prio
[06:48] <dholbach> seb128: i absolutely see your point
[06:49] <dholbach> ok... how do you feel towards a mailing list until we have a webticket-system?
[06:50] <dholbach> or review traffic on a mailing list
[06:50] <herve> but reviewing bugfixes occurs when a bug has patch included?
[06:50] <\sh> ok...thats cleared and are there any "review rules" at all, how the debian/ directory should be structurized? i mean, packaging is one thing, reviewing the other, it needs more wisdom to review then to package ;)
[06:50] <Kamion> fwiw, elmo already uses RT internally for admin, I imagine it wouldn't be hard to set up another instance
[06:50] <dholbach> \sh: i started ReviewingTips on the wiki, but it's far from complete
[06:50] <ogra> \sh, there are rules.... un the NM guide
[06:50] <ogra> in even
[06:50] <Kamion> not that I'm volunteering other people's time or anything
[06:51] <ogra> Kamion, RT, cool
[06:51] <herve> ogra, and debian policy I guess?
[06:51] <ogra> yep
[06:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion: setting up multiple queues is trivial.
[06:51] <\sh> Kamion: it's a nice tool, and u need only one instance of RT to support different queues
[06:51] <Kamion> \sh: that depends on firewall policy
[06:51] <Kamion> the world cannot access @admins.warthogs.hbd.com, not even sure if they can get at that machine
[06:52] <ogra> but setting up a world reachable one should be possible
[06:52] <\sh> ok...there r policies outside the ubuntu space :) so we should make them as "standard reading" for newbies :)
[06:52] <dholbach> i can investigate on that one, if you like the plan as a whole
[06:52] <dholbach> the RT one, that is
[06:52] <\sh> Kamion: ah I see right, i didn't know the infrastructure behind it
[06:52] <ogra> \sh, rather help tseng writing the MOTU book ;)
[06:53] <ogra> dholbach, RT is perfectlya what we need....
[06:53] <\sh> ogra: :)
[06:53] <dholbach> alright, i put it on my todo list
[06:53] <ogra> dholbach, its a workflow dedicated ticket system
[06:53] <dholbach> ok... do you feel there are any other processes we need to tweak or make comprehensible?
[06:53] <\sh> "once there was a time, when the MOTUs came out of the dark, into the light...more then 1000 years last the piece in the Ubuntu Universe and the Masters are not tired to..."
[06:54] <ogra> \sh, yeah
[06:54] <dholbach> :-)
[06:54] <\sh> you see, I watched "Star Wars III" yesterday ;)
[06:54] <ogra> ok, can we move on, dholbach and me have another meeting afterwards :)
[06:54] <ogra> (in ~10mins)
[06:55] <dholbach> arg
[06:55] <dholbach> ff crashed again
[06:55] <ogra> welcome to the club :)
[06:55] <dholbach> t-shirts was the next?
[06:55] <ogra> yep
[06:55] <\sh> t-shirts, thongs and 1 litre coffee mugs
[06:55] <dholbach> shall i send a mail to the whole crew where we call for other alternatives to the one design we have?
[06:55] <ogra> i liked burgundavias design... (havent got the url)
[06:56] <\sh> what design?
[06:56] <herve> yes, I'd like to see it again
[06:56] <ogra> \sh, i think he created a wikipage with it
[06:56] <dholbach> ok... i will ping burgundavia about it again :-)
[06:57] <\sh> It should make a nice flat stomach and it must be something like spiderman ;)
[06:57] <dholbach> we should really make the t-shirt happen :-)
[06:57] <ogra> yep
[06:57] <herve> about merchandising
[06:57] <dholbach> herve: hm?
[06:57] <\sh> well...but a tshirt
[06:57] <herve> I want you to know french pay quite much for buying stuff in the usa
[06:57] <herve> customs and the like
[06:58] <\sh> i would propose something like a "fedora" (c) by redhat
[06:58] <\sh> that was really a difference to other linux competitors
[06:58] <herve> and we may not be an exception :-)
[06:58] <dholbach> herve: sabdfl offered the t-shirt shipping to the MOTU club - i will ask him, if he still likes the idea, when we have agreed on a design :-)
[06:58] <herve> cool then :-)
[06:59] <dholbach> ok, i will summon up burgundavia again and ask everybody if we there are additional ideas on it
[06:59] <herve> coo... er? I don't know if it could include customs taxes
[06:59] <dholbach> ogra: want to to introduce us to the fly flap day?
[06:59] <ogra> yeah....
[06:59] <herve> dholbach, about just the logo or some sentence on it?
[06:59] <herve> animal crualty!
[07:00] <ogra> THE UBUNTU FlyFlapDay !
[07:00] <dholbach> herve: all of it :-)
[07:00] <ogra> its a weekly summit where everybody iun the community shall help fixing bugs
[07:00] <herve> well, it's just a bugfix sprint I guess :-)
[07:00] <\sh> ogra: hmm?
[07:00] <ogra> but it shall not be just another bugday
[07:01] <ogra> we want to categorize bugs by the skill level you need to fix them
[07:01] <ogra> there will be three categoies...
[07:01] <ogra> 1. community bugs
[07:01] <ogra> thats for the new kids on the block, that wna to help out or..
[07:02] <dholbach> hahahaa.... :-)
[07:02] <ogra> just want to see their favorite bugs fixed
[07:02] <ogra> (trivial ones though)
[07:02] <ogra> the second category shall be MOTU bugs
[07:02] <\sh> "new kids?" what about me? "old farts"?
[07:02] <\sh> anyway ;)
[07:02] <ogra> bugs hwere you need a decent skill level or have to know the basics of packaging etc
[07:03] <ogra> the third part are the normal distro bugs tat are fixed by the distro team
[07:03] <ogra> we will have a special bug channel for this and i'll write weekly announcements
[07:04] <herve> aren't we fly flapping everyday? :-)
[07:04] <\sh> hmm....what about upstream bugs? are they included in 3)
[07:04] <dholbach> herve: publicity! :-)
[07:04] <ogra> the bugs will be listed on a wikipage ?? (or RT)
[07:04] <ogra> once a month we will do something special...
[07:05] <ogra> the community has to vote for the BOTM
[07:05] <\sh> ogra: wiki is here ok...cause RT needs special perms for resolving/closing
[07:05] <\sh> ogra: and the bug itself should be in malone
[07:05] <ogra> \sh, its not about resolving/closing
[07:05] <ogra> just about tracking the work thats been done for the voting
[07:05] <\sh> ogra: that was for RT :)
[07:05] <\sh> oh ok..then RT
[07:06] <\sh> RT++
[07:06] <ogra> ok, the BOTM will recieve merchandise of any kind from ubuntu, this is backed by canonical....
[07:07] <\sh> what if one guy/gal will be every weeks no. 1?
[07:07] <dholbach> ogra: what will we have to do? categorize those bugs? do we need to feed lists in a yet-to-have RT?
[07:07] <ogra> (i also try to alk with mark about electing a BOTY who gets free sponsoring for a conference, but that may be to expensive)
[07:07] <ogra> dholbach, i asked kiko about a special field in bugzilla/malone
[07:08] <dholbach> and what about the categorizing stuff?
[07:08] <dholbach> B = bug or bugsquasher?
[07:09] <ogra> Bugfixer Of The Month
[07:09] <dholbach> ok
[07:09] <ogra> Bugfixer Of The Year
[07:09] <dholbach> just to clarify :-)
[07:09] <herve> dholbach, we're not sending merchandise to a bug :-)
[07:09] <ogra> heh
[07:09] <dholbach> ogra: ok, but what about the categorizing?
[07:09] <dholbach> who will do it?
[07:10] <ogra> dholbach, but anyway, we'll have to do the categorizing by ourselves.... i think this should happen while we do the first review of a bug
[07:10] <dholbach> ah ok
[07:10] <ogra> (i.e. while you are looking for duplicates etc)
[07:10] <dholbach> ah ok
[07:10] <ogra> since you have to touch it anyway
[07:10] <dholbach> i like the idea very much
[07:11] <\sh> and it can be quite good to encourage people to work for motu at all
[07:11] <ogra> its very important to involve the community here .... so they get in tight contact with their devs
[07:11] <ogra> and they are the ones that vote the BOTM
[07:11] <dholbach> yes
[07:11] <ogra> so both rely on each other :)
[07:11] <dholbach> rocking! :)
[07:12] <ogra> ok, thats the fly flap day :) you'll see the first announcement soon ...
[07:12] <dholbach> i will not include this in the wrapup on the list
[07:12] <\sh> and it's possible to encourage some local UGs to have meetings at these special days ;)
[07:12] <dholbach> just drop a FlyFlapDay somewhere, to make people curious :)
[07:12] <ogra> yeah
[07:13] <dholbach> maybe it should be wiki.ubnutu.com/NoNameYet  ;)
[07:13] <\sh> TheFreezer ;)
[07:13] <ogra> fridge
[07:13] <\sh> nono
[07:13] <\sh> fridge is news site
[07:13] <\sh> freezer is more scary ;)
[07:13] <dholbach> ok... shall we now fix a new date and time?
[07:14] <ogra> yep
[07:14] <dholbach> 3 weeks from now?
[07:14] <ogra> four weeks ? or do we need something earlier ?
[07:14] <ogra> heh
[07:14] <dholbach> maybe a different time?
[07:14] <dholbach> to make sure our australian/.nz friends are here?
[07:14] <\sh> 4 weeks should be ok, or?
[07:15] <ogra> dholbach, so 5h later ?
[07:15] <ogra> or 6
[07:15] <dholbach> that's 24:00 for us :-)
[07:15] <ogra> yep
[07:15] <dholbach> ok
[07:15] <dholbach> 19.06.05 22:00 UTC
[07:15] <ogra> oki
[07:16] <dholbach> could somebody with a not-upgraded firefox do that? ;-)
[07:16] <dholbach> PLEASE :-)
[07:16] <ogra> i'll do it from the other machine
[07:16] <dholbach> on MOTUMeeting and Calendar :-)
[07:16] <dholbach> kthxbye
[07:16] <ogra> (later.... lets meet salgado)
[07:16] <\sh> ok...thx for the meeting
[07:16] <dholbach> thanks for joining us, herve, \sh and tseng|work :-)
[07:17] <ogra> yeah
[07:17] <\sh> cu around :)


[01:38] <cjohnston> knome: its there
[01:40] <knome> cjohnston, awesome!
[01:41] <knome> cjohnston, i don't know if other flavors have been using the work items tracker as much as we have done, but you might want to poke them as well
[01:41] <cjohnston> I'm looking right now, the only one I see with a topic is studio
[01:42] <knome> i'm pretty sure they want their topic up
[01:42] <knome> zequence, ping
[01:48] <cjohnston> I fixed it
[11:40] <zequence> cjohnston: thanks
[11:40] <zequence> knome: pong
[18:23] <ScottK> Ubuntu Package Importer (~package-import) expired from ubuntu-core-dev (on 2013-07-11) <-- I don't imagine that's a good thing.
[18:25] <Laney> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ebook-tools.html#2013-07-14 16:12:32.809688
[18:25] <Laney> is it causing that?
[18:26] <Laney> & co
[18:26]  * Laney re-adds
[18:27] <Laney> OK, done.
[18:28] <Laney> xnox: ^ could you retry the failures caused by this maybe?
[21:30] <TheLordOfTime> anyone know who produces the file for installing 13.04 with jigdo?  (the file in question: http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ubuntu-13.04-server-i386.jigdo )
[21:33] <infinity> We do...
[21:33] <TheLordOfTime> infinity:  then you need to revise that
[21:34] <TheLordOfTime> if you don't mind me giving you a specific code change.
[21:34] <infinity> Or, hint at the bug/problem you're seeing?
[21:35] <infinity> To be fair, I haven't used jigdo since we stopped producing alternate images, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bit broken somehow.
[21:35] <TheLordOfTime> infinity:  line 323: vr9GHh8dalA8qMblfXNdtA=Debian:pool/main/f/finish-install/finish-install_2.42_all.udeb  <-- refers to a file that 404s.  the correct file is finish-install_242ubuntu1_all.udeb
[21:36] <TheLordOfTime> http://askubuntu.com/questions/320048/missing-package-problem-when-installing-ubuntu-desktop-13-04-with-jigdo/320070#320070  <-- was where it got reported
[21:37] <infinity> Oh dear.  That's actually a more funamental issue that the server CDs appear not to have been respun after that last-minute change to finish-install.
[21:37] <infinity> But we're not likely to do so now either.
[21:37] <TheLordOfTime> so therefore the CDs are broken and it's an oversight that may or may not have critically broken images?
[21:38] <infinity> (The jigdo manifest isn't wrong, the CD has finish-install_2.42_all.udeb on it)
[21:38] <infinity> The CDs aren't broken.
[21:38] <TheLordOfTime> ah
[21:38] <TheLordOfTime> i see
[21:39] <TheLordOfTime> so the jigdo manifest fails because it can't find a package that was on the CD images and is included on the CD images.
[21:39] <TheLordOfTime> ... makes sense.
[21:39] <infinity> An unfortunate oops, but we don't tend to respin CDs post-release for non-LTSes, except in extreme cases, and this probably doesn't qualify as extreme.  Removing the jigdo files would probably be the better option.
[21:40] <infinity> Or maybe I could re-do the jigdo-file run against the current archive, so the old finish-install lands in the .template blob.
[21:40] <infinity> But given that no one complained for 3 months, I imagine not many people use that download method anymore.
[21:41] <TheLordOfTime> infinity:  i leave that to you guys, because you know more of the inner workings better than I, and you guys have final say
[21:41] <TheLordOfTime> however, i did want to report that this has been found as a bug and to do whatever.
[21:41]  * infinity nods.
[21:41] <infinity> Thanks for the heads-up.
[21:41]  * TheLordOfTime doesn't particularly care since the ISOs still isntall and no pre-fabricated VM images are affected.
[21:41] <TheLordOfTime> infinity:  yeppers.
[21:41] <infinity> I'll do something about it (either delete the jigdo files, or see if I can mangle them) tomorrow.
[21:42] <TheLordOfTime> infinity:  awesome.  i assume there's no need for a bug report about this since i've already poked you all here?
[21:42] <infinity> TheLordOfTime: A bug report to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage wouldn't hurt.
[21:42] <TheLordOfTime> will do, thanks.
[21:43] <cjwatson> Should be mangleable without too much fuss.
[21:43] <infinity> My, that list needs cleaning up.
[21:43] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, I'm assuming a fresh jigdo-file run would just land the old finish-install in .template, since it's not findable in the archive, right?  If it's smart enough to notice that.
[21:44] <cjwatson> I think so
[21:44] <infinity> cjwatson: But I'm not sure how smart it actually is.  If it doesn't compare in anyway way and just assumes everything under /pool/ lives on a mirror, then it would need some hand guidance.
[21:44] <cjwatson> Test in a temporary directory :-)
[21:44] <infinity> s/anyway/way/any way/
[21:45] <infinity> Er.
[21:45] <cjwatson> I'm pretty sure .template == "all the stuff I couldn't find".
[21:45] <infinity> I can't type even when correcting my typos.
[21:45] <infinity> Evidence that my "I'll look at this tomorrow" is the way to go.
[21:45] <cjwatson> Do be careful to get the jigdo headers right; if you're generating by hand then they may need hand-editing.
[21:46] <TheLordOfTime> infinity: bug filed at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1201197
[21:46] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, it shouldn't be too much fuss to fake it.
[21:46] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1201197 in Ubuntu CD Images "Ubuntu Server 13.04 jigdo manifest out of date, errors with 404 Package Not Found" [Undecided,New]
[21:46] <infinity> TheLordOfTime: Danke.
[21:46] <TheLordOfTime> yeppers
[21:48] <infinity> The prospect of testing CD downloady things from BlueFin has me positively giddy.
[21:48] <infinity> Sometimes, it's really easy to make a nerd happy.
[21:49] <TheLordOfTime> cjwatson:  infinity:  thanks again!


[12:11] <Adri2000> hi
[12:12] <Adri2000> I guess you know that malone bugmail is broken, any idea when it will come back?
[12:13] <LarstiQ> eh, how so?
[12:15] <Adri2000> I haven't received any bugmail since yesterday afternoon (CET time), and have seen many people in that case