[00:01] <RainCT> csilk: here you have an example of how such a rule looks (this one is to package a bzr snapshot instead of repackaging, though): http://paste.ubuntu.com/68134/
[00:02] <csilk> Yeah that looks simple
[00:02] <csilk> much cleaner than making manual changes
[00:04] <RainCT> well, I'm off
[00:04] <RainCT> see you tomorrow
[00:34] <Yasumoto> RAOF: so I'm using the grab-merge.sh script to pull miro
[00:34] <Yasumoto> and the .patch files seem empty
[00:35] <Yasumoto> should I gunzip the diffs and compare those?
[00:38] <RAOF> Yasumoto: Looking on merges.ubuntu.com there are conflicts in the merge; thus you'll need to actually look at the various diffs and unpacked tarballs, yes.
[00:38] <Yasumoto> cool
[00:38] <Yasumoto> and for the bug I'm filing, something like "Please merge miro 1.2.8-1 from Debian unstable" would work?
[00:40] <RAOF> Yeah.  You could possibly title it as "I'm merging miro 1.2.8-1 from Debian unstable" and retitle it once you're done, but that title looks fine.
[00:40] <Yasumoto> will do
[00:41] <Yasumoto> RAOF: thanks :)
[00:50] <csilk> If source comes from CVS should I remove CVS specific dirs and files before packaging?
[00:50] <csilk> if so, do I just do this by rm'ing the said failes/dirs
[00:52] <ajmitch> cvs export is cleaner than running through with rm
[00:55] <csilk> ajmitch, by export do you mean a specific flag that doesn't include cvs specific files?
[00:55] <ajmitch> iirc the command is just cvs export
[00:55] <ajmitch> it's been a long time since I've used it
[00:56] <zul> people still use cvs?
[00:57] <csilk> I did a simple export, as axpected, it included all the cvs files
[00:57] <csilk> zul, yeah sourceforge do
[00:57] <ajmitch> zul: apparantly
[00:57] <csilk> *expected
[01:12] <csilk> come to think of it the version control system used makes no difference as they all leave their own dirs and files in the source
[02:01] <csilk> Anyone awake?
[02:01] <ajmitch> sort of
[02:04] <csilk> "Non-native packages must have verifiable cryptographic path to upstream source "
[02:04] <csilk> Could you possibly elaborate on that?
[02:05] <csilk> it's form the new package review guidelines
[02:05] <csilk> *from
[02:05] <lifeless> lol
[02:05] <lifeless> like upstream have a monopoly on safety?
[02:06] <james_w> verifiable? how?
[02:06] <StevenK> That strikes me as overly paranoid
[02:06] <wgrant> Verifiable by checking the md5sum of the tarball, perhaps.
[02:06] <james_w> do I have to drive and check the upstream author's passport?
[02:06] <ajmitch> james_w: it may help
[02:06] <csilk> wgrant, if an md5sum isn't provided by upstream then what?
[02:06] <StevenK> wgrant: But then you need check the signature on the md5sum, and have a trust path to his key
[02:07]  * ajmitch is surprised that it's written as 'must have'
[02:07] <wgrant> csilk: Then your upstream needs to be hit with something very spiky.
[02:08] <NCommander> hey wgrant
[02:08] <wgrant> Hi NCommander.
[02:08] <csilk> wgrant, I'm sure alot of apps have this issue in the repositories, that's alot of upstream beating ;)
[02:09] <wgrant> Doesn't mean we need to add more.
[02:09] <csilk> That takes away alot of potential software then
[02:10] <lifeless> everything packaged from svn becomes inadmissible
[02:10] <lifeless> and cvs
[02:10] <csilk> even then, StevenK had a good point about untrusted sigs
[02:10] <lifeless> and rcs
[02:10] <lifeless> etc etc
[02:10] <ScottK> Well given the current state of DNS technology believing you got what you asked for when DNS is involved is optimistic.
[02:10] <lifeless> true
[02:10] <lifeless> so
[02:11] <ScottK> If you pull via ssh and know the distant end's key, you still have a good trust path.
[02:11] <lifeless> we can only package content with either a gpg web of trust signed md5 of the content or dnssec end to end to identify the web host + https w/ good certificate
[02:11] <lifeless> ScottK: only if the far end key was given to you securely
[02:11] <ScottK> True.
[02:12] <lifeless> do these guidelines get reviewed?
[02:12] <csilk> lifeless, so package A, a requested package, maintainer manages to get upstream to include signed md5sum, this signiture is not part of a web of trust, would this app have a chance?
[02:13] <ScottK> Where are the guidelines?
[02:13] <wgrant> I think that they should remain as prohibitively difficult as possible.
[02:13] <james_w> csilk: we don't normally go nearly as far as that to check
[02:13] <lifeless> csilk: sounds like it wouldn't because you can't be sure that upstream made the signature
[02:13] <lifeless> csilk: only someone that claimed to be upstream
[02:14] <lifeless> its also more than slightly insane that this rule only apply to non-native packages
[02:14] <lifeless> native is *not* special
[02:14] <ScottK> So it sounds like we need to write a better rule.
[02:14] <wgrant> lifeless: There is no other upstream for native packages...
[02:14] <csilk> It sounds like this rule is probably ignored for n anount of current packages
[02:14] <ScottK> It'd also be handy if all the source in our own archive were signed.
[02:14] <csilk> i dont believe all current packages have verifiable links to upstream
[02:15] <lifeless> wgrant: you misunderstand what native really means I think. It really means 'a tarball is uploaded on every change'
[02:15] <lifeless> wgrant: it has *no* deeper implications than that
[02:15] <lifeless> wgrant: for all that some people may wish it idid
[02:15] <ScottK> csilk: I think it's more important recently because it's easier to fake stuff than it used to be.
[02:15] <wgrant> lifeless: I'm aware, but if there is another upstream then being native is *wrong*.
[02:15] <wgrant> And should be punishable.
[02:15] <ajmitch> which is where we get things like the wxwidgets packaging from
[02:15] <ScottK> wgrant: It happens though.
[02:15] <lifeless> wgrant: which has nothing to do with the security/relevance here
[02:16] <csilk> ScottK, so this pretty much invalidates a large portion of package-requests
[02:16] <lifeless> wgrant: also, under that approach, nothing in ubuntu that is native in debian should be native in ubuntu
[02:16] <lifeless> wgrant: because, there is another upstream - debian.
[02:16] <ScottK> csilk: I think we need a reasonable definition of what needs to be done.
[02:16] <wgrant> lifeless: True.
[02:16] <lifeless> the brutal reality is that native is just a bad way to upload any package, but its enshrined due to history
[02:17] <wgrant> ScottK: Yes, "Go to Debian"
[02:17] <csilk> ScottK, are we going to get that any time soon?
[02:17] <ScottK> Dunno.
[02:17] <lifeless> csilk: this discussion is probably the start of one
[02:17]  * ScottK only volunteers here.
[02:17] <ajmitch> ScottK: so does just about everyone else
[02:18] <csilk> I have two packages I would like to submit for REVU very soon, they suffer from this issue, shall I just not bother submitting them then?
[02:18] <lifeless> I do, thats for sure
[02:18] <lifeless> csilk: submit them
[02:18] <ScottK> ajmitch: Sure, but don't turn to me to be the authority on what'll happen when.
[02:18] <lifeless> csilk: in general, ignore insanity in the process
[02:18] <csilk> haha
[02:18] <csilk> ok
[02:18] <ScottK> Odds are most other people are too.
[02:20] <csilk> While people have their eyes on irc.... When packaging something pulled from cvs/svn etc I assume all version control based files and dirs are to be removed from the source?
[02:21] <lifeless> csilk: its inefficient to include a lot of metadata
[02:21] <lifeless> so yes
[02:21] <lifeless> see the $vcs-buildpackage scripts, which know how to do that for you
[02:21] <csilk> Any prefered method or can I just rm?
[02:21] <csilk> ok
[02:21] <csilk> thanks
[02:21] <RAOF> Also, a generally better plan is to package a release rather than a random VCS snapshot.
[02:22] <ajmitch> RAOF: depending on sanity of upstream
[02:22] <csilk> yeah I agree with that RAOF but sometimes that's not possible/desirable
[02:22] <RAOF> Right.
[02:22] <RAOF> We'd be waiting a _long_ time to package ffmpeg, for example :P
[02:22] <ajmitch> when did it last release?
[02:22] <RAOF> Never?
[02:23] <ajmitch> heh, fun
[02:23] <lifeless> releases are more important the more destabilising changes outside a release may be
[02:23] <ajmitch> when did it ever have a stable API?
[02:23] <lifeless> for instance libraries are a problem
[02:23] <wgrant> A[PB]I stability in ffmpeg? Hahahaha.
[02:24] <RAOF> "If you are looking for a formal release, stop now, there are none. Maybe we will have some in the future, but don't hold your breath."
[02:24] <ajmitch> I think this is why there have been so many copies of ffmpeg source bundled
[02:24] <RAOF> Abolutely.
[02:24] <wgrant> I really wish that there was an alternative to ffmpeg.
[02:24] <RAOF> That's the way the ffmpeg devs recommend, since providing API/ABI stability would inhibit their ability to perform micro-optimisations.
[02:25] <wgrant> That way we could tell upstream go to fsck themselves and get out of our distro.
[02:25] <RAOF> wgrant: You can have a pretty reasonable gstreamer-based system without a trace of ffmpeg.
[02:25] <wgrant> RAOF: Right, but lots of apps need ffmpeg.
[02:25] <lifeless> its a complete strawman though
[02:25] <lifeless> change api - bump soname
[02:25] <lifeless> change abi - bump soname
[02:26] <lifeless> ITS NOT THAT HARD
[02:26] <wgrant> lifeless: These are ffmpeg developers...
[02:26] <RAOF> lifeless: Also, if they made a release they'd feel obliged to support it in some way.  They don't want to do that.
[02:26]  * RAOF spent an instructive year or so on the ffmpeg-devel list.
[02:27] <lifeless> well, thats in their heads
[02:27] <lifeless> :P
[02:27] <RAOF> There's something wrong with multimedia that rots people's brains.
[02:28] <RAOF> There's a lot of overlap between mplayer & ffmpeg developers, and mplayer famously changed 1/3 of their codebase (or something like 300KLOC) between rc1 and rc2 of mplayer 1.0 :)
[02:28]  * StevenK whispers "Quicktime"
[02:29] <lifeless> yah
[02:29]  * wgrant murders StevenK.
[02:30] <lifeless> there is a multimedia fragments http wg
[02:30] <wgrant> RAOF: It was more then 300KLOC... I did that merge.
[02:30] <lifeless> more than slight oddity sometimes in their thinking
[02:30] <wgrant> That was insane.
[02:30] <ajmitch> RAOF: because 300KLOC was obviously all release-critical fixes
[02:30]  * StevenK burns an Anhk and self-resurrects
[02:30] <lifeless> StevenK: :P
[02:30] <wgrant> They rewrote so much stuff it wasn't funny.
[02:30] <ajmitch> heh
[02:30] <wgrant> Shifted things around, embedded more upstream projects.
[02:30] <wgrant> It was a wonderful release candidate.
[02:32]  * ajmitch wonders if ubuntu could learn from such releases
[02:32] <wgrant> It's like Gentoo, but without masking.
[02:32] <StevenK> Only if the lesson is "How NOT to do things"
[02:32] <ajmitch> have the jaunty RC be a nice, normal release
[02:33] <ajmitch> & then a week later put out an untested desktop with E17 & the hurd
[02:33] <RAOF> I think a year's gap between RC1 and RC2 would allow for a significant increase in bugfixing, yes :P
[02:34]  * RAOF watches as gnome-do slowly but surely inches its way to the top of mem usage.
[02:34] <wgrant> Hmm.
[02:34] <wgrant> It has been almost a year since rc2.
[02:34] <wgrant> I wonder what the diff is now.
[02:34] <RAOF> So it's about time for rc3 to drop? :)
[02:35] <wgrant> Yep.
[02:35]  * RAOF will leave that little bundle of joy right where it lies.
[02:35] <ajmitch> 1.0 will be upon us RSN?
[02:35] <wgrant> I presume they did it just to stop people from complaining they never get close to a release...
[02:36] <ajmitch> obviously they're going to commit to a 1.0 release at some point, right?
[02:36] <RAOF> They should just have the courage of their convictions and tell everyone to run from SVN.
[02:46] <ScottK> wgrant: Any suggestions on where I find the binaries for this upload: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/libspf2/1.2.9-0ubuntu0.1
[02:48] <wgrant> ScottK: Ahahahaha. 3 links that look like they might go somewhere, but all link to that page. Let's see if it's possible to get there without going via /ubuntu
[02:49] <wgrant> ScottK: Aha. You can click on "Intrepid" in the SPP section, then look down the bottom.
[02:49] <wgrant> But that's only because it's currently published in Intrepid.
[02:49] <wgrant> If you wanted an old one, you'd need to click on Intrepid, click on a release in the portlet, click on a build, click on a resulting binary.
[02:51] <wgrant> You know, I would report bugs on this, but I could just wait 8 months and fix them in an hour myself when LP is Freed. That will get them fixed faster.
[02:52] <ScottK> ;-}
[02:52] <ScottK> wgrant: In 8 months you can make patches.  It doesn't mean they'll actually get used.
[02:53] <wgrant> ScottK: True.
[02:59] <ajmitch> wgrant: you're optimistic if you think that it'd only take 1 hour to fix :)
[03:00] <wgrant> ajmitch: It's just shuffling around a few links in the TAL.
[03:00] <ajmitch> it's still zope
[03:00] <wgrant> Heh.
[03:01] <ajmitch> I shouldn't be such a pessimist, but it comes from having worked with plone again this week
[03:02] <wgrant> Fortunately LP is not Plone. Nor Zope 2.
[03:02] <ajmitch> I know
[03:19] <wgrant> james_w: That UEHS change shouldn't take too much code, but I won't be able to get to it for a couple of weeks
[03:20] <ajmitch> what is the change needed?
[03:20] <wgrant> ajmitch: See http://jameswestby.net/weblog/ubuntu/04-revu.html
[03:21] <james_w> wgrant: yeah, didn't think it would, and I would be happy to do it, but I would want to talk to you first.
[03:22] <wgrant> It could even easily be done just by running two instances, only changing a couple of lines.
[03:22] <ajmitch> running two instances seems like a bit of a waste
[03:22] <wgrant> ajmitch: Why?
[03:23] <ajmitch> just more duplication
[03:23] <wgrant> Slightly.
[03:23]  * ajmitch is still reading through to see just what changes james_w wants made to UEHS
[03:26] <ajmitch> bother, hard to do test builds of syncs & merges on this laptop
[03:27] <ajmitch> the infamous "No space left on device" problem
[03:27] <wgrant> Aha.
[03:29] <lifeless> ajmitch: bind mount to /dev/null
[03:31]  * ajmitch just deleted some old WoW patches instead
[03:31] <cyphermox> hi. I'm trying to package concordance, which is a library and utility to manage Logitech Harmony remotes, and I'd like to add a udev rules file (not provided from upstream), so that using sudo to run the utility wouldn't be necessary.. is that the right way to do things? also I'm wondering just how to add the file...
[03:34]  * StevenK still has 2.5GB free on his WoW partition
[03:35] <StevenK> I suspect the WotLK installer will want a fair bit more
[03:36] <ajmitch> I don't run it on the laptop
[03:37] <lifeless> StevenK: the 3.0.2 patch should be the bulk of it
[03:37] <StevenK> lifeless: BC was still 4 CDs
[03:37] <lifeless> StevenK: yes, but it could upgrade direct from 1.x
[03:37] <StevenK> Ah
[03:38] <lifeless> if you didn't buy BC you got the net upgrader to 2.0, which was a couple gb
[04:38] <kc8tad> I'm not sure if this is an MOTU question but here goes. A buddy of mine installed his printer, a Toshiba eStudio2500c, and the driver that Ibex downloads has some dependencies. One of them being lsb-core which has postfix as a dependency. Is it *right* that postfix is installed and listening after installing a simple printer driver?!
[04:54] <Yasumoto> So would something like meld be useful for visualizing changes to merge?
[05:13] <pangloss> man, #ubuntu is wild
[06:20] <SUNWjoejaxx> hello persia :)
[06:26] <persia> Hi SUNWjoejaxx
[06:28] <SUNWjoejaxx> persia: do you have a minute for a pm?
[06:30] <SUNWjoejaxx> well actually an email would probably be better
[06:38] <persia> If an email would be better, just send an email :)
[06:42] <SUNWjoejaxx> persia: which email address would be best? your default one on lp?
[06:43]  * persia checks LP
[06:44] <persia> SUNWjoejaxx, The first listed would be fine.
[06:44] <SUNWjoejaxx> alright
[06:44] <SUNWjoejaxx> persia: i will send you an email off tomorrow :D i am going to retire for the evening
[06:44] <SUNWjoejaxx> persia: goodnight
[08:35] <persia> james_w, Just FYI, UEHS contains not only Ubuntu-local packages, but also packages orphaned in Debian.
[08:39] <wgrant> persia: His blog post says "The
[08:39] <wgrant> UEHS page also lists packages maintained by the Debian QA team "
[08:39] <wgrant> Without that bad linebreak/
[08:40] <persia> But my brain failed to process that bit :)
[09:12] <huats> morning
[09:12] <verwilst> hi
[09:13] <verwilst> i'm looking for a sponsor
[09:13] <verwilst> :)
[09:17] <persia> verwilst, In what sense are you seeking a sponsor?
[09:17] <NCommander> morning persia
[09:17] <persia> evening NCommander
[09:17] <NCommander> persia, how goes it?
[09:17]  * NCommander is looking for a toolchain guru
[09:17] <huats> morning persia and NCommander
[09:18] <verwilst> persia: well, i'm maintaining a zabbix package in my ppa
[09:18] <verwilst> and the "official" zabbix package kinda sucks.. bigtime..
[09:19] <verwilst> so i would like to get my package into ubuntu
[09:19] <persia> verwilst, OK.  How different is your package now?
[09:20] <verwilst> well, it seems that the debian guys just did a "cp 1.4 1.6"
[09:20] <verwilst> while a few new subpackages were introduced
[09:20] <verwilst> i also updated the config files, and reworked the rules a bit to take the new subpackages into account
[09:21] <persia> So you have the same upstream version, with just some packaging changes?
[09:21] <verwilst> yeah
[09:21] <verwilst> it's not from scratch :)
[09:22] <persia> In that case, prepare a version for upload to jaunty (mostly just changelog adjustments: you want to clean up the PPA versions, etc.).  Collect a debdiff between that and the current version in Jaunty, and attach it to a bug against zabbix describing the improvements.
[09:23] <verwilst> persia: excellent
[09:23] <verwilst> persia: thanks, i will do tht
[09:23] <verwilst> that
[09:24] <persia> Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug, and someone will review it.  The queue is often reviewed in FIFO order, so it may be a while.
[09:31] <verwilst> persia: 1.6 isnt in ubuntu yet though
[09:31] <verwilst> only 1.4
[09:32] <verwilst> persia: do i need to debdiff the debian 1.6 then?
[09:32] <persia> verwilst, It would be better to debdiff against the Debian one then.  In that case, process it also as a merge.
[09:32] <persia> !merge
[09:35] <verwilst> persia: hm, the jaunty package is rejected
[09:36] <verwilst> Rejected: Cannot build any of the architectures requested: any
[09:36] <verwilst> i don't see it on my ppa
[09:36] <verwilst> and it's identical to my intrepid and hardy packages, only the changelog is changed
[09:37] <wgrant> None of Jaunty's archs are enabled for PPAs yet.
[09:37] <verwilst> that explains it :)
[09:37] <wgrant> Needs an ~admin to flip a checkbox on a couple of DAS.
[09:37] <persia> verwilst, Don't worry about not being able to upload to the PPA, just attach the debdiff.
[09:39] <verwilst> persia: it's 2.5M
[09:39] <verwilst> persia: is that big or normal? :)
[09:39] <verwilst> (uncompressed )
[09:42] <persia> verwilst, That's a *lot* of changes.  Is all of that intentional?
[09:44] <verwilst> well it's a new version..
[09:44] <verwilst> 1.6 > 1.6.1
[09:44] <verwilst> maybe that has something to do with it?
[09:44] <verwilst> and new sql files
[09:44] <verwilst> and so on
[09:47] <persia> Yeah.  That would do it.  If you're packaging 1.6.1, just attach your diff.gz to the bug.  Make sure the watch file works, so your sponsor can download the tarball from upstream.
[09:50] <verwilst> hm, i don't have a diff.gz actually
[09:50] <verwilst> zabbix_1.6.1~hardy2.dsc and zabbix_1.6.1~hardy2.tar.gz
[09:50] <verwilst> same for intrepid
[09:51] <verwilst> built it with debuild -S -sa
[09:52] <verwilst> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zabbix/+bug/294604 looks fine to you?
[09:54] <persia> verwilst, Well, we don't import directly from PPAs, except in very unusual circumstances.
[09:54] <verwilst> oh
[09:55] <persia> You'll want to attach your diff.gz, and I'd recommend titling the bug "Please upgrade zabbix to 1.6.1"
[09:55] <verwilst> persia: any idea why i don't have a diff.gz?
[09:56] <persia> verwilst, Did you create the orig.tar.gz file in the parent directory before you built the source package?
[09:56] <verwilst> yeah
[09:56] <verwilst> maybe it's the -sa?
[09:57] <persia> Also, looking at your debdiff, you'll want to use 1.6.1-0ubuntu1 as the version, and consolidate all the PPA changelog entries into one changelog entry for inclusion.
[09:57] <persia> Cold be the version number : you don't have a hyphen in your versions.
[09:58] <verwilst> i don't have a hyphen(~)?
[09:58] <persia> Right.
[09:58] <verwilst> 1:1.6.1~intrepid2 ?
[09:59] <persia> Typically, package versions in Ubuntu consist of $(upstream_version)-$(Debian revision)ubuntu$(Ubuntu revision)
[09:59] <verwilst> yeah
[09:59] <persia> When there's no hyphen, I think dpkg-source thinks you're building a native package.
[09:59] <verwilst> but not for ppa's i guess
[10:00] <verwilst> hm, so i should create another package ( outside of my ppa ) with -0ubuntu1
[10:00] <verwilst> and attach that debdiff to the bugreport
[10:00] <persia> Well, for PPAs, it's usually $(upstream-version)-$(Debian revision)ubuntu$(ubuntu-revision)~ppa$(PPA revision) or something.
[10:00] <verwilst> oh
[10:00] <persia> Right.  Don't upload this version to your PPA : it's for the primary repository.  Clean up the changelog, and when you get the diff.gz, attach that.
[10:01] <directhex> gah @ ~ppa
[10:01] <directhex> don't use ~ppa, people!
[10:02] <verwilst> directhex: i switched from ppa to ~intrepid/... :)
[10:02]  * directhex hands verwilst cake
[10:02] <verwilst> directhex: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[10:02] <verwilst> directhex: i guess this is the culprit then
[10:02] <verwilst> it says "To do this, increase the Ubuntu version number and add a suffix of ~ppan (where n is your package's revision number). "
[10:02] <persia> That's just bad advice.
[10:03] <verwilst> "For example: you're creating an experimental version of the myapp_1.0.1 package. Your PPA package would be named myapp_1.0.2~ppa1. "
[10:03] <directhex> it's filled with WRONG!
[10:03] <persia> Well, the text is good, but the example is poor.
[10:03] <persia> Just changing "myapp_1.0.1" to "myapp_1.0-1" would probably address 90% of the confusion.
[10:04] <verwilst> which is the versioning i kept :)
[10:04] <verwilst> yeah apparently
[10:04] <directhex> ~ppa1 will be an acceptable suffix only when Quaint Quail is released
[10:04] <directhex> after that, ~ppa1 is fine
[10:05] <verwilst> doc FAIL?
[10:05] <verwilst> :)
[10:06] <persia> directhex, Um, are you confusing '-' and '~' ?
[10:06] <directhex> persia, what version is given to ubuntu-backports versions?
[10:07] <directhex> foover~${CODENAME}1
[10:07] <persia> directhex, anyone who enables PPAs presumably prefers a PPA to a backport.
[10:08] <directhex> persia, for the same foover?
[10:09] <directhex> persia, if someone's using a PPA to try out a backport, before that backport goes "official", i'd take an official backport of the same version for preference. obviously the ppa would take precedence if it had genuinely newer packages
[10:10] <directhex> ppa new ver > ubuntu backport > ppa backport > ubuntu update > ubuntu release
[10:10] <persia> directhex, I guess.  Personally, I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone using a PPA.
[10:10] <persia> I find it useful for complex build-dependency chains to detect packages that won't build if a library is updated, but end-user installation is fraught with peril.
[10:11] <persia> verwilst, Documentation marginally improved.  Thanks for pointing that out.
[10:12] <directhex> persia, strictly speaking, isn't an experimental version of myapp_1.0-1 a job for myapp_1.0-1+ppa1, snice your package is NOT based on myapp_1.0-2?
[10:14] <persia> directhex, That's a fairly convincing argument.
[10:16] <directhex> bureaucrat directhex, you are technically correct. the best kind of correct!
[10:16] <persia> directhex, Actually, thinking about it, no, I don't think it's a job for +ppa1.  I might have thought so had you suggested that last year, but with so much time of people using  ~ppa1, it's probably hard to change now.
[10:16] <persia> Consider that it's a ppa candidate for 1.0-2.
[10:17] <directhex> persia, if it's a genuine candidate, then i agree
[10:17] <persia> While this is exceedingly rarely actually true, but let's pretend.
[10:17] <directhex> persia, if you're not in Uploaders:, then i agree rather less
[10:17] <directhex> given we're talking about a debian versioned package here, Uploaders is relevant ^_^
[10:18] <directhex> god, i'm such an asshole :)
[10:20] <sebner> !ohmy | directhex
[10:20] <sebner> :P
[10:20] <directhex> sebner objects to donkeys?
[10:20] <directhex> the rare burrowing donkey of kuala lumpur, which lives in holes?
[10:20] <sebner> lol
[10:23] <NCommander> o_o;
[10:24] <NCommander> directhex, +1 on how explaining asshole is not indeed fowl language
[10:24]  * NCommander runs from the horrible pun
[10:25] <directhex> NCommander, added bonus: the avatar i use on forums is a feral chicken
[10:25] <NCommander> Well, thats just foul
[10:25] <NCommander> :-)
[10:26] <persia> directhex, Yeah, well, let's ignore Debian/Ubuntu for PPAs for now :)
[10:30] <sebner> NCommander: I think you won't be added as long as the official announcement is missing
[10:31] <NCommander> -ENOCONTEXT
[10:32] <persia> sebner, Well, it's more waiting on two more of us to send comments.  One of those should be there in the next few hours.  I don't know about the other.
[10:33] <sebner> persia: dunno, NCommander said that the got this final +1 :P
[10:33] <NCommander> persia, three, unless the MOTU council has five members
[10:35] <sebner> NCommander: but don't worry I never thought something else than everybody gives you a +1
[10:35] <NCommander> sebner, you are much more optimistic than I am ;-)
[10:36] <sebner> NCommander: not optimistic but realistic ;)
[10:38] <persia> MOTU Council does have 5 members.
[10:38]  * NCommander thought it was six
[10:39] <NCommander> SInce TB - 5 = 1
[10:39] <NCommander> er
[10:39] <NCommander> TB + 5 = 8
[10:39] <NCommander> But there are 9 active members in the group
[10:41] <persia> No, it's 5.
[10:43] <NCommander> 3 + 5 = 8, but the team has 9
[10:43] <NCommander> Am I missing something?
[10:47] <wgrant> NCommander: The team itself counts.
[10:47] <wgrant> A subteam counts as a member in that count,
[10:48] <persia> So $(MC members) + TB + $(TB members) = 9.
[12:36] <stefanlsd> A package has deviated from Debian wrt an init script, which may be ok for Ubuntu. Should we just sync for now to align with Debian and fix problems after, or should I test deb package and try merge?
[12:38] <persia> It's always best to preserve any change in Ubuntu unless you are 100% certain that it has no end-user effect.
[12:39] <persia> I'd recommend merging.  If the change is an improvement that would also be useful in Debian, it's worth checking the BTS to make sure there's already a bug filed with a patch for that improvement.
[12:40] <persia> Note that some sponsors will expect you to work with the Debian maintainer to get it into Debian before accepting the merge if the fix is useful in Debian.  I'm not sure how strongly that attitude will prevail while Debian is mostly frozen though.
[12:40] <stefanlsd> persia: mm. in this case the package upstream went from 1.1.2 to 1.2.3 - i have a feeling that things changed with the program internally and the debian script is not that far off. but ok, i think i'll just test the .deb as is against the old bug and see if they address the same things
[12:40] <persia> (note for those with an interest in new packages : fixing RC bugs in Debian is the fastest way to get new upstreams right now).
[12:41] <persia> stefanlsd, Ah, if you've two separate changes to the same code, then yes, check against the bug, and if it's fixed, prefer the Debian solution to the Ubuntu solution.
[12:41] <stefanlsd> persia: all of my merge packages, if its useful to debian i've been in contact with maintainers to fix and upload into unstable so we can sync.  Would way rather do that then do the same silly merges every cycle :)
[12:42] <stefanlsd> especially so early in the cycle
[12:43] <persia> stefanlsd, Then you've learned the secrets to having a small set of changes to merge :)
[12:43] <stefanlsd> hehe.  does anyone have those need to merge maintained in bzr packages i could look at. I would like to start playing with those...
[12:44] <persia> james_w claimed to have most packages in bzr a couple days ago.  Dunno if it's somewhere accessible.  If you just want to play, you might look at some of the packages that are bzr-maintained.
[12:45] <james_w> they are not accessible yet, and unfortunately you won't be able to merge in bzr this cycle
[12:46] <persia> james_w, The former I understand.  The latter confuses me.  As much as bzr doesn't match my personal workflows very closely, is there some reason that one can't merge a bzr-maintained package where there is a vcs.imports branch in LP?
[12:47] <james_w> because there is no shared revision history yet
[12:48] <james_w> next cycle the aim is to be able to merge from Debian, but you won't be able to merge from upstream
[12:48] <james_w> that is a cycle 3 or 4 target
[12:50] <persia> james_w, Hrm?  If I look at a package like grub-installer, it's maintained in bzr.  There's a vcs.imports branch that comes from alioth SVN.  The ubuntu branch is based off the alioth branch.  Why can't this merge?
[12:50] <james_w> well you can do that now
[12:50] <james_w> I'm talking about the general case
[12:51] <persia> Ah, so it's about having it for every package, as opposed to the current 30-40 packages already set up?
[12:51] <james_w> yeah
[12:51] <stefanlsd> james_w: ok, so with packages already in bzr, we can branch - manually merge, push, debuild and then debdiff like normal?
[12:51] <persia> OK.  Now I understand why I was confused :)
[12:51] <james_w> those 30-40 packages took a reasonable amount of effort each to set up
[12:52] <james_w> scaling that to 15000 packages hasn't worked, so we're working the other way round
[12:52] <persia> Yeah.  Took me a few hours to organise one of them a couple months ago.  Not something I'd like to repeat.
[14:26] <rrittenhouse> I'm not sure if this is the correct place but I noticed when I installed a Toshiba driver in ubuntu Ibex 64bit. I noticed that I later had postfix installed on my box and listening.
[14:26] <ScottK> rrittenhouse: That's because lsbbase requires it and that's one of the requirements of your driver.
[14:27] <rrittenhouse> =x thats horrible
[14:27] <persia> Well, it's at least a bug worth filing.  Probably not that hard to fix : it just requires determining what LSB features the driver actually needs.
[14:33] <RainCT> hey
[14:33]  * RainCT is happy as he may get a proper Internet connection soon \o/
[14:35] <rrittenhouse> ScottK, persia: i'm not over-reacting but isn't it dangerous for the unsuspecting user to have postfix installed just because they need to print? =/
[14:35] <persia> RainCT, Really?  Congratulations!
[14:36] <persia> rrittenhouse, that's why it's worth filing a bug :)
[14:36] <rrittenhouse> haha, ok :)
[14:36] <rrittenhouse> I just wanted to make sure I wasnt over-reacting or something.
[14:38] <RainCT> persia: yep, there's now WiMAX available in our town :)
[14:38] <rrittenhouse> RainCT: Nice. We all deserve a proper Internet connection :P
[14:38] <persia> RainCT, Ah.  That makes more sense.  I didn't think you were likely to get a cable.
[14:39] <persia> rrittenhouse, Well, I'm not sure about the severity.  I think the default postfix configuration is pretty safe, and it seems to have good security coverage, but it's definitely a bug.
[14:39] <rrittenhouse> persia: Ok. I will write up a bug report. Thanks :)
[14:40] <RainCT> persia: I don't really mind how it works, as long as it works better than 3G :)
[14:40] <rrittenhouse> Actally, should it be assigned to the lsbcore package or ?
[14:40] <persia> To the driver package.
[14:40] <rrittenhouse> oh ok.
[14:51] <jfcgauss_1> valkyrie (new version), a gui tool for valgrind 3.3.x, http://www.open-works.net/projects/valkyrie.html, is not present in ubuntu repositories. how/where do i make a request for inclusion? :)
[14:55] <persia> http;//wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[15:32] <Skiessi> lmms package needs updating
[15:32] <joaopinto> Skiessi, there are no updates for the current release except for SRUs
[15:33] <joaopinto> Skiessi, check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[15:34] <Skiessi> I meant jaunty
[15:38] <persia> Skiessi, The plan is to try to get stuff into Debian first, which means getting Debian to release first.
[15:38] <persia> If that doesn't cause lmms to be updated through autosync by the end of December, we'll probably pull a new version.
[15:40] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:40] <sebner> hi bddebian
[15:41] <bddebian> Hello sebner
[15:43] <NCommander> morning DktrKranz
[15:43] <sebner> DktrKranz: ~õ~
[15:44] <DktrKranz> g'noon NCommander, sebner
[15:44] <NCommander> DktrKranz, how goes it?
[15:44] <NCommander> Does anyone here use dupload over dput? (and is there any advantage?)
[15:45] <persia> dput is easier to type.
[15:45] <sebner> xD
[15:45]  * NCommander falls over
[15:45] <NCommander> dput runs lintian. and I'm seeing what check version does
[15:45] <sebner> persia: but you are right. you only use dput *.sources_changes so no need for options etc .. right?
[15:46] <persia> Well, no, I run dput $(target) ...
[15:46] <NCommander> my dput target is to my PPA
[15:46] <NCommander> I figure I can't do any hard that way
[15:46] <sebner> NCommander: GOOD point
[15:46] <persia> I disabled the default target after pushing something by accident.
[15:47]  * NCommander has uploaded Ubuntu packages to mentors, and Debian packages to REVU
[15:47] <NCommander> -_-;
[15:48] <RainCT> lol
[15:48] <dfiloni> NCommander: congrats
[15:48] <huats> NCommander: congrats !
[15:48]  * DktrKranz has a dput alias: where_upload_matters
[15:49] <NCommander> THat didn't take long
[15:49]  * NCommander hugs geser
[15:49] <DktrKranz> NCommander: a BAD day, definitely!
[15:49] <NCommander> DktrKranz, what, I can upload to universe. It will be FTBFS free in a week ;-)
[15:49] <geser> NCommander: congrats
[15:50] <NCommander> \o/
[15:50] <NCommander> yay
[15:50] <DktrKranz> NCommander: whoa! just noticed! congrats
[15:50]  * NCommander watches his first upload get rejected to LP lameness
[15:50] <porthose> NCommander: congrats
[15:50] <NCommander> I will bet!
[15:50] <nxvl> NCommander: congrats
[15:50] <DktrKranz> NCommander: push crack! or automatix, your choice
[15:50] <sebner> NCommander: now go and break stuff :P
[15:54] <NCommander> woooooooooo
[15:54] <NCommander> I'm in MOTU
[15:54] <sebner> xD
[15:54] <NCommander> I need to sponsor something or otherwise now use my GPG keys
[15:54] <NCommander> for good that is
[15:55] <sebner> NCommander: you can sponsor me :) or is DktrKranz still interested in audacious?
[15:55] <DktrKranz> NCommander: progress in your NM?
[15:55] <DktrKranz> sebner: go and kill someone else, thanks ;)
[15:55] <sebner> hrhr
[15:56] <NCommander> If my NM application moves today
[15:56] <NCommander> I think I'll die of shock
[15:56] <NCommander> oooh
[15:56] <NCommander> its pretty
[15:56]  * NCommander notes his list of teams gets longer ... and longer ...
[15:57] <sebner> NCommander: well, If I would have your skills mentioned in your application I wouldn't be that worried/crazy xD
[15:57] <DktrKranz> NCommander: "two is meigl che one" (italian reclame saying two is better than one)
[15:57] <NCommander> DktrKranz, a person is smart, people are stupid
[15:57] <NCommander> ;-)
[15:58] <NCommander> So
[15:58] <NCommander> Something to upload
[15:58] <NCommander> ...
[15:58] <NCommander> something to upload
[15:58] <DktrKranz> steal something from sebner
[15:58] <NCommander> -ENOUPLOAD
[15:58] <NCommander> sebner, need a sponsor?
[15:58] <sebner> NCommander: bug #294072
[15:58] <sebner> thx =)
[15:58] <sebner> ahoi mighty jono =)
[15:59] <DktrKranz> and remember "-v" ;)
[15:59] <NCommander> -v?
[15:59] <NCommander> on dput?
[15:59] <sebner> NCommander: debuild
[15:59] <DktrKranz> debuild
[15:59]  * NCommander acts dense
[15:59] <NCommander> what does that do to debuild
[15:59]  * NCommander never used it
[15:59] <DktrKranz> it adds debian changelog entries
[16:00] <RainCT> NCommander: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New :)
[16:00] <sebner> RainCT: \o/
[16:00] <sebner> NCommander: you never used debuild!?!? O_o
[16:00] <DktrKranz> e.g. ubuntu has 0.1-1ubuuntu1 and you want to upload 0.1-2ubuntu1, you have to do debuild -S -v0.1-1ubuntu1 to include changes from 0.1-2
[16:01] <RainCT> sebner: he never used -v, I guess
[16:01] <sebner> ah
[16:01]  * NCommander actually uses dpkg-buildpackage
[16:01] <NCommander> DktrKranz, that sounds like a way to make my lifer easier
[16:01] <NCommander> sebner, how did you test this patch?
[16:01] <azeem> dpkg-buildpackage accepts that option as well
[16:02] <sebner> NCommander: I already made a SRU with it :P
[16:03] <NCommander> and is there a handy option to pull debian revisions ;-)?
[16:03]  * NCommander feels like he's going to have to manage his sources.list
[16:05]  * NCommander finds his key ID so I can actually sign the changes
[16:06] <NCommander> sebner, if it builds, and is installable, I'll upload it
[16:06] <NCommander> (and it runs and I don't see any major regressions)
[16:06] <NCommander> The changelog checks out, every change in your debdiff matches what you says is left
[16:06] <sebner> NCommander: MOTU don't trust anybody so don't trust me =)
[16:06] <NCommander> I didn't say I trusted you ;-)
[16:07] <sebner> heh
[16:07] <DktrKranz> good boy, don't trust him at all
[16:07] <sebner> xD
[16:07] <DktrKranz> or make him pay you
[16:07] <DktrKranz> trust is priceless, unless you give it a higher one
[16:08] <NCommander> urgency=critical?
[16:08] <DktrKranz> does LP care about urgency?
[16:08] <geser> NCommander: if you are out of merges you can have mine, I'm currently too busy to look after them myself
[16:08] <sebner> NCommander: remember. All of my stuff is critical :P
[16:09]  * NCommander has the XUbuntu set, but he's waiting on cody-somerville on those
[16:09] <NCommander> geser, I may take a look, no promises however
[16:09] <geser> DktrKranz: no (not really)
[16:09] <sebner> NCommander: how did you get this 80 lines thing with your application? That's terrible xD
[16:09] <DktrKranz> sebner: really? mh... wasn't there "deserves-U.N.-attention" ?
[16:09] <NCommander> sebner, what 80 lines thing?
[16:09] <sebner> DktrKranz: U.N?
[16:09] <DktrKranz> sebner: united nations
[16:10] <sebner> DktrKranz: he?
[16:10] <DktrKranz> sebner: your merges are so critical UN must approve a resolution to fix them ASAP :)
[16:10] <sebner> NCommander: Did you let break your Mailapp your sentences? Because your application only shows 80 chars per line
[16:11] <sebner> lol
[16:11]  * NCommander uses gmail ...
[16:11] <NCommander> so I'd say no
[16:11] <sebner> DktrKranz: but hey, I made this merge ASAP
[16:11] <NCommander> I just am very punctuational
[16:11] <sebner> NCommander: kay
[16:11] <DktrKranz> sebner: if you had superpowers...
[16:12] <sebner> DktrKranz: It would have been uploaded already, right
[16:12] <NCommander> sebner, it built
[16:12] <NCommander> testing
[16:13] <sebner> NCommander: of course I did both too, just for the record
[16:13] <NCommander> I never upload without test building
[16:13] <DktrKranz> mh... could someone please close my xml-utils sync request? pitti synced it right now, and I lack a browser...
[16:13] <NCommander> (exception: uploads to a PPA)
[16:14] <NCommander> sebner, why does audicious depend on audicous plugins
[16:14] <NCommander> (is it a true dependency?)
[16:14] <RainCT> DktrKranz: does that package even exist? :P
[16:15] <sebner> NCommander: because *-plugins are important. both together are great but audacious without them ...
[16:15] <NCommander> sebner, it doesn't work, no MP3s play
[16:15] <NCommander> MADPlug-Message: failed to open audio output: XMMS reverse compatibility output plugin
[16:15] <sebner> O_o
[16:15] <sebner> NCommander: plugins installed?
[16:15] <persia> DktrKranz, bug number?
[16:15] <NCommander> sebner, installed
[16:16] <NCommander> Setting up audacious-plugins (1.5.1-2ubuntu2) ...
[16:16] <sebner> NCommander: O_o, working here. crazy. let me check later
[16:16] <NCommander> sebner, ok, when I changed the setup in preferences to ALSA, it worked
[16:16] <NCommander> I think PulseAudio is just broken on my machine
[16:17] <sebner> NCommander: well audacious has a patch to set output to pulseaudio default
[16:17] <NCommander> Right
[16:17] <NCommander> Since Ubuntu uses PA by default
[16:17] <NCommander> sebner, is there an actual depends on pulseaudio?
[16:17] <NCommander> (or at least a recommends?)
[16:18] <sebner> NCommander: AFAIK pulseaudio stuff was moved to *-plugins
[16:18] <NCommander> sebner, strange
[16:19] <NCommander> I think its a quirk on my system
[16:19] <NCommander> It worked fine once I changed it to ALSA
[16:19] <sebner> ^^
[16:19] <NCommander> I'm hestiant to upload it if there is a chance its broken on PA
[16:21] <persia> sebner, Erm, you might need to fiddle with the defaults.  I remember nenolod messing with things quite a bit to cleanly handle both Ubuntu and Debian.
[16:22] <NCommander> sebner, sorry, I can't sponsor an upload that doesn't work out of the box
[16:22] <NCommander> (pulseaudio is working, I just tried another app)
[16:22] <sebner> persia: ah O_o, at least it's working here
[16:22] <sebner> NCommander: ok, I'll recheck
[16:22] <NCommander> sebner, here != everyone else
[16:22] <NCommander> sebner, I'll dump the package onto my PPA, if someone else wants to test it
[16:22] <sebner> NCommander: but better than nowhere :P
[16:23] <NCommander> actually
[16:23] <NCommander> can't do that since its a jaunty changelog
[16:23] <NCommander> bah
[16:23] <NCommander> I'll put it aside
[16:23] <NCommander> if you can retest and redetermine
[16:23] <NCommander> I'll reconsider uploading ;-)
[16:23] <NCommander> directhex, morning
[16:24] <sebner> NCommander: sure, I'll check that later and let you know what's going on
[16:24] <persia> sebner, Dunno.  That's a package I've been avoiding looking at in detail, so I'm just going by memory of backscroll.
[16:24] <NCommander> who else had a NEEDSUPLOAD?
[16:24] <sebner> persia: kk, thx anyway
[16:24] <sebner> NCommander: look at u-u-s subscriptions :P
[16:24] <james_w> NCommander: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[16:24] <NCommander> I'm looking
[16:25] <directhex> i'm back!
[16:25]  * sebner would ACK a sync when he gets a MOTU
[16:25]  * NCommander sees an FTBFS fix
[16:25] <persia> james_w, Is that reliably up-to-date now?  Used to generally be 6-12 hours out.
[16:25] <dfiloni> persia: what do you think about moving packages that depend on wx2.6 to wx2.8 for jaunty?
[16:25] <james_w> persia: works fine for me
[16:26] <persia> dfiloni, I think it's a beautiful idea.  You'd get super-extra-bonus-points if you managed to move ctsim to 2.8 as your first candidate.
[16:31] <bddebian> heh
[16:35] <persia> bddebian, "heh"?  You know you want to wave your pom-poms and sing when dfiloni does his magic.
[16:35] <bddebian> Hells yeah, I just played with ctsim for a while myself. :)
[16:35] <bddebian> Of course, I'm not too bright so...
[16:36] <persia> I haven't looked at it since mid-September.  Have you heard anything more from upstream?
[16:36] <bddebian> No, last I talked with them, they were still struggling (Of course at the time 2.8 was in Debian).
[16:37] <dfiloni> wxwidgets2.4?! WTF?!
[16:37] <persia> It's a pity.  There's probably 50 excited users of the software, and they *really* need it, but it's just not a large enough base that many can help.
[16:37] <persia> dfiloni, See, that's why I mention it :)
[16:38] <persia> It's the last one, or at least the last one anyone cares about.
[16:38] <bddebian> Hmm, it was removed from testing
[16:38] <NCommander> Wooo
[16:38] <persia> But it shipped in intrepid.  I'm not tempted to drop it, although we'll follow Debian if nobody can fix it.  Porting to 2.6 or 2.8 would get it back into Lenny probably.
[16:38] <NCommander> my first upload, and first sponsoring have been uploaded
[16:39] <bddebian> dfiloni: If you could get it going you would be my hero.  Of course it's a very specialized app so testing might be a struggle.
[16:43] <sebner> NCommander: I purged audacious completly away and installed it. Everything is working. Maybe someone else should test it!? (Be uses a freshly installed intrepid btw)
[16:43] <sebner> btw, did the languagepacks break the build machines (intrepid) ^^
[16:44] <persia> No, they're just clogging them.
[16:44] <nenolod> audacious and ubuntu is not so great
[16:44] <sebner> persia: kay
[16:45] <sebner> nenolod: I use it without problems but right in the past there were some trouble
[16:45] <nenolod> well, ubuntu used to apply a bunch of insane patches to it
[16:45] <NCommander> sebner, it might be breaking on Jaunty
[16:45] <NCommander> <- *is running jaunty*
[16:46] <nenolod> sebner: i'm running audacious2 anyway.
[16:46] <sebner> nenolod: heh
[16:46] <sebner> NCommander: /me should upgrade
[16:46] <nenolod> the packaging is different in audacious2
[16:46] <nenolod> audacious2-plugin-pulseaudio, and so on.
[16:46] <sebner> nenolod: well audacious2 is pretty svn right ;)
[16:46] <nenolod> sebner: svn?
[16:47] <nenolod> audacious presently have no website either
[16:47] <nenolod> hostile coworker wiped out my server and then promptly got fired
[16:47] <sebner> nenolod: yep but version 2 isn't released yet
[16:48] <nenolod> sebner: we use hg, not svn
[16:48] <sebner> nenolod: ah right, sry, but yeah, under heavy development
[16:48] <NCommander> hey directhex
[16:48] <directhex> NCommander, hm?
[16:49] <NCommander> directhex, I just did my first upload ;-)
[16:49] <directhex> yay!
[16:49] <directhex> NCommander, debian, ubuntu main, or ubuntu universe?
[16:50] <sebner> directhex: first uploads usually don't go to main  ^^
[16:50] <NCommander> ubuntu universe
[16:50] <NCommander> argh
[16:50] <NCommander> I should have uploaded to multiverse
[16:50] <directhex> NCommander, i'll keep you in mind as a pet universe sponsor then. how about some silverlight goodness? ^_^
[16:51] <NCommander> I thought silverlight was in main
[16:51]  * Laney wibbles
[16:51] <nenolod> sebner: audacious2 has a long ways to go, but both the audacious1-like interface plugin and minimal interface (built in) are fairly mature.
[16:51] <Laney> congrats NCommander
[16:51] <sebner> NCommander: I'll update now to jaunty (though I think that it doesn't differ that much already from intrepid)
[16:51] <sebner> nenolod: nice =)
[16:51] <directhex> NCommander, nah. nothing other than the rather unhelpful 2.1 classlib is in mono yet anyway - i.e. the plugin isn't
[16:51] <directhex> NCommander, at any rate, nice work
[16:52] <nenolod> sebner: the minimal interface presently looks like http://nenolod.net/~nenolod/audacious2-minimal-20081025.png
[16:52] <NCommander> directhex, normal sponsoring rules apply
[16:52] <directhex> NCommander, beer or spirits?
[16:53]  * NCommander doesn't drink
[16:53] <NCommander> Try again
[16:53] <NCommander> bbl
[16:53] <sebner> nenolod: cool =) final time of all tracks is missig :P
[16:53] <sebner> *missing
[16:53] <nenolod> sebner: it's provided by a tuplez script
[16:53] <nenolod> sebner: but i don't have the status bar enabled where you would attach such a script
[16:54] <sebner> nenolod: kay
[17:00] <bddebian> \o/ Congrats NCommander
[17:00] <geser> Hi bddebian
[17:00] <bddebian> Heya geser
[17:02] <DktrKranz> RainCT: persia, already done. thanks anyway
[17:27] <sebner1> bad jaunty. broke my system xD
[17:28] <DktrKranz> sebner1: n00n
[17:28] <sebner1> DktrKranz: can't make query (live cd). read it? what do you think (speaking secretly)
[17:28] <NCommander> wow, lpia just hosed itself
[17:28] <persia> sebner, Remember, the rule when upgrading to development releases is that you get to assemble the pieces any way you like.
[17:29] <stefanlsd> NCommander: Congrats!!!!!!!
[17:29] <NCommander> stefanlsd, thank you
[17:29]  * geser updated only his development chroot to jaunty
[17:29] <sebner1> persia: grrr -.- pulseaudio is broken and the fix upload is since two days on "dependency wait"
[17:29]  * NCommander discovered how todo rebuilds
[17:30] <sebner1> NCommander: pulse in jaunty is b0rken. upload audacious :P
[17:30] <DktrKranz> sebner1: and most of all, do not install packages you touched
[17:30] <NCommander> sebner, it is?
[17:30] <persia> sebner, Surely you can build packages locally, no?  The order the buildds choose might not be the one that's best for you.
[17:30] <sebner1> persia: well, wlan-internet is still only working with gui (maybe a intrepid reinstall is faster?)
[17:31] <sebner1> NCommander: totally. broke my system
[17:31] <NCommander> sebner1, are you sure we won't have to binary rebuild audacious after its uploaded?
[17:32]  * persia points out the lack of binary rebuilds in Ubuntu and stares pointedly at the recently anointed
[17:32] <sebner1> NCommander: well, I'd upload it but we can also wait until pulseaudio situation is fixed
[17:33] <NCommander> persia, I know that, when I say binary upload, I mean no-changes changelog upload
[17:33] <NCommander> (or the do-bin-rebuild script I may write for ubuntu-dev-tools)
[17:33] <sebner1> NCommander: well, pulseaudio is not a rebuild thing for audacious
[17:34] <NCommander> sebner, no, I mean will audacious have to be rebuilt later?
[17:34] <sebner1> NCommander: because of pulseaudio? I don't think so
[17:34] <NCommander> (aka, is the change to pulseaudio a transition)
[17:34] <NCommander> Think, or know ;-)? *is teaching you to think like an MOTU*
[17:34] <sebner1> hrhr
[17:35] <persia> NCommander, Please don't create such a script.  There are several floating about already, but they are all unsafe in one way or another, and making it safe isn't worth it considering that there's about 15 of us who do anything about NBS intentionally.
[17:35] <sebner1> NCommander: I ask the guys who broke my system
[17:35] <NCommander> sebner, well, here are the handy hints for the future
[17:37] <NCommander> if pulseaudio's upload had an ABI bump, or created an NBS, or soname change, that means if I upload now, and its build before the current pulseaudio, it could be bad (its unlikely, but when you do an upload, you need to think on how changes will affect the archive)
[17:38] <sebner1> NCommander: Ah, you are right, haven't dealed with that stuff yet. I'll keep that in mind for future (and if I have a working system again)
[17:39] <NCommander> Well, reviewing the changelog of pulseaudio, it doesn't say anything transitions so its safe
[17:39] <NCommander> (and I don't see anything in the debdiff to suggest it will break)
[17:39] <RainCT> NCommander: btw, how can I tell pg_dump to use the revu user?
[17:40] <NCommander> pg_dump -u revu1
[17:40] <NCommander> sebner1, so given the information I've given you. Upload [y|n]?
[17:41] <sebner1> NCommander: y with a hug
[17:42] <RainCT> NCommander: ah, I had tried that but misspelled "revu" :P. thx
[17:43]  * NCommander mulls it over to make sure he's not overlooking something
[17:43] <ScottK> NCommander: Congratulations.
[17:43] <NCommander> Hey ScottK
[17:44] <ScottK> NCommander: Heya.  So the answer is no.  I won't sponsor your upload.
[17:44] <NCommander> ScottK, but I have a main one :-)
[17:45]  * sebner1 also asks himself why lilo got installed xD
[17:47] <NCommander> sebner1, ok
[17:47]  * NCommander breaks out the GPG key
[17:48]  * sebner1 hugs NCommander and reinstalls intrepid
[17:48] <NCommander> sebner1, uploading
[17:48] <sebner1> nice to have a seperated /home ^ ^
[17:50] <jdong> sebner1: you don't need a separate /home to reinstall preserving /home :)
[17:51] <sebner1> jdong: I heard about that but I'm and old man :P
[17:51] <jdong> :)
[17:51] <NCommander> sebner, accepted
[17:52]  * sebner1 ^5 NCommander =)
[17:52] <NCommander> ^5
[17:52] <sebner1> BAD BOY
[17:53] <sebner1> NCommander: it seems you forgot the -v option!?
[17:53] <NCommander> What did I do?
[17:53] <persia> Failed to include the debian changelog in the .changes file?
[17:53] <sebner1> NCommander: debuild -v :P
[17:53] <NCommander> Uh oh
[17:53] <sebner1> persia: exactly
[17:54]  * NCommander assumes the position
[17:54] <persia> NCommander, That's twice.  Please take extra care, as that means that people are getting unannounced changes on their systems.
[17:54] <sebner1> jdong: but tell me. how to preserve home without /home :)
[17:54] <NCommander> persia, I did the -v on the mtd-utils upload O_O;
[17:54] <NCommander> debuild -S -v
[17:54]  * persia should actually read -changes rather than trusting backscroll
[17:55] <jdong> sebner1: in the live installer, use the filesystem as / but don't check format
[17:55] <jdong> sebner1: the installer will tell you it wants to rm -rf everything but /home
[17:55] <sebner1> jdong: what a nice feature =) but me feels more save with /home nevertheless
[17:56] <NCommander> oh
[17:56] <NCommander> I see the change in .changes now w/ -v
[17:56] <NCommander> ok
[17:56] <NCommander> (-v is not in debuild's manpage)
[17:57] <sebner1> but on RainCT's wikipage \o/
[17:57] <Laney> NCommander: It's part of dpkg-buildpackage
[17:57]  * NCommander never saw that on the wiki :-/
[17:58] <sebner1> I should have asked sabdfl if we plan to make ubuntu install faster (I heard foresight installs in 8 minutes)
[17:58]  * NCommander finds something else to merge and upload so I can redeem myself
[17:59] <sebner1> lol
[17:59] <ScottK> NCommander: Go do spambayes.  I'm sick of it.
[17:59] <NCommander> is it a merge, or?
[17:59] <ScottK> NCommander: Merge
[18:00]  * NCommander grumbles
[18:20] <RainCT> NCommander: Do you know how I can get that entry with the highest upid when I do "SELECT DISTINCT sid"?
[18:21] <NCommander> SELECT DISTINCT max(sid)
[18:21] <NCommander> or something like that
[18:23] <RainCT> NCommander: tried with that and now it says   ERROR:  column "upload.upid" must appear in the GROUP BY clause or be used in an aggregate function
[18:23] <RainCT> not sure how to fix that :S
[18:23] <NCommander> I dunno remember enough SQL to fix that offhand
[18:24] <dfiloni> persia: I'm unable to fix ctsim :(
[18:25] <persia> dfiloni, Do you understand how it's broken?  I couldn't get it to produce output I could use to even dig in much.
[18:27] <dfiloni> persia: I haven't tried it, I've tried to make it using wx2.6/2.8
[18:28] <persia> Yeah.  I got it to compile against 2.6 with a bit of fussing, but it segfaulted in ways I didn't understand.
[18:29] <dfiloni> persia: debian bug 462189 ?
[18:30] <persia> Well, I've been periodically trying to port ctsim since Feisty, but it's the same sort of issue.
[18:30] <persia> The only reason I'm interested in WX at all is because I wanted to drop wxwindows2.4
[18:31] <persia> The newer versions aren't as exciting to me, mostly because they mostly work.  2.4 is broken in UTF-8 locales, holds up the gtk1.2 purge, is unsupported upstream, is packaged in a spectacularly unique fashion, and is generally buggy.
[18:31] <dfiloni> persia: I'm interested in wx because it was my first package, but I don't use it
[18:32] <persia> Yes, but you actually have a working relationship with upstream, and a decent sense of how it should be organised :)
[18:33] <dfiloni> however ctsim is evil...
[18:34] <persia> Well, it's special.  It uses WX in a different way.
[18:36] <ScottK> Looks like the Debian solution was to kick it out of Lenny.
[18:37] <dfiloni> persia: http://lists.b9.com/pipermail/ctsim-users/2007-August/000075.html
[18:39] <persia> dfiloni, I didn't get that last time I tried it.  Are you getting it now?
[18:39] <dfiloni> I actually get views.cpp:396: error: ‘class wxWindow’ has no member named ‘GetTitle’ etc...
[18:40] <persia> ScottK, Yes, but removal of a working package just because it uses a buggy library hasn't generally been supported in Ubuntu, as long as the package remains in Debian.  ctsim works, and doesn't seem to trigger most of the standard WX bugs, it just fails when ported, which is the frustrating bit.
[18:42] <sebner> back guys ^^ on solid intrepid
[18:42] <NCommander> wb sebner
[18:42] <sebner> NCommander: ty
[18:43] <NCommander> is there a way I can make debuild -v the default?
[18:43] <ScottK> NCommander: How would it know what number to put after the v?
[18:43] <ScottK> NCommander: grabmerge.sh includes a script that'll do that for you.
[18:44] <NCommander> so I want to do -v*last upload?*
[18:45] <persia> -v$(current version in jaunty)
[18:48] <NCommander> hey emgent
[18:50] <emgent> NCommander: welcome and congrats
[18:50] <NCommander> emgent, thanks :-)
[18:51]  * sebner winks ember
[18:51]  * sebner winks emgent
[18:52] <emgent> lol
[18:52] <emgent> :)
[18:52] <emgent> hi setanta
[18:52] <emgent> s/setanta/sebner/
[18:52] <setanta> ops
[18:52] <setanta> :)
[18:52] <sebner> ember: lol :P
[18:53]  * dfiloni thinks that this is the ping war
[18:54] <sebner> dfiloni: thanks for your comment on audacious ;D
[18:54] <dfiloni> there is a my comment?
[18:55] <dfiloni> :P
[18:55] <sebner> sure :P
[18:58]  * sebner currently installs 737MB, maybe I should install nexuiz later (~350MB) ^^
[18:59] <homy> hi, I have a question about making debian packages: Whenevery I try to change a binary file, like an image, I get an error when running debuild that tells me it can't represents the binary change.
[19:00] <homy> Of course, this makes sense, but how *can* you change/add a binary file?
[19:00] <dfiloni> homy: you can encode and during build decode it, you can use uuencode and uudecode
[19:00] <dfiloni> in order to do this
[19:01] <RainCT_> homy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/BinaryFilesInDiff
[19:02] <homy> RainCT_: thanks, thats exactly what I wanted to do!
[19:02] <homy> Thanks dfiloni, you also answered my question :)
[19:02]  * RainCT_ prepares to break REVU *evil grin*
[19:04] <gouki> If I want to copy a folder (irssistats) on debian/ to /var/www/ - cp $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats/var/www/
[19:04] <gouki> Would this do it?
[19:04] <RainCT> gouki: no, you can't move a directory into itself :P
[19:04] <gouki> True! :)
[19:05] <RainCT> gouki: if they had different names then yet, but it's better to use dh_install for this :)
[19:05] <RainCT> argh, s/move/copy/.. why do I keep saying "move"? XDD
[19:05] <gouki> RainCT so could it be this?  cp $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats /var/www/
[19:06] <RainCT> gouki: no, you can't have a directory named irssistats in debian/ if the binary package is called the same
[19:06] <nxvl> gouki: can't you just untar that into the folder
[19:06] <nxvl> instead of cping?
[19:06] <gouki> RainCT, ohh, OK.
[19:06] <nxvl> gouki: where is the source of that package
[19:06] <nxvl> also, have you already some debsource i can take a look at
[19:07] <nxvl> to have the whole picture
[19:07] <RainCT> gouki: if you had debian/stuff/irssistats then yes, you could do   cp $(CURDIR)/debian/stuff/irssistats $(CURDIR)/debian/irssistats/var/www/
[19:07] <gouki> nxvl, untar? That would result in allot of unneeded stuff.
[19:07] <nxvl> oh, ok
[19:07] <RainCT> gouki: but I'd be better to use    dh_install debian/stuff/irssistats var/www/
[19:07] <gouki> nxvl, I have it almost ready, but this cp thing is preventing me from putting it on REVU
[19:07] <nxvl> upload it
[19:07] <gouki> RainCT, OK. I'll read the man for dh_install
[19:07] <nxvl> just to give a look and have the whole picture of what are you trying to achieve
[19:08] <gouki> nxvl, like it is now, without the cp fule or dh_install?
[19:08] <nxvl> and what's what you have
[19:08] <gouki> OK
[19:08] <gouki> RainCT, didn't know dh_install was that simple to use :)
[19:08] <nxvl> actually revu is a package-draft repo, not a package repo
[19:08] <nxvl> so it won't hurt
[19:08] <gouki> nxvl, OK
[19:08] <nxvl> debhelper ROCKS!
[19:08] <gouki> Turning VM on now.
[19:09] <nxvl> lunch time
[19:09] <nxvl> brb
[19:09] <gouki> Just one more thing ... Another package I would like to upload but can't is hydra, mostly because of this:
[19:09] <gouki> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=258057
[19:10] <gouki> That first post about LICENCE.HYDRA.
[19:10] <gouki> What do you guys recommend?
[19:10] <RainCT> that should be OK for multiverse
[19:10] <RainCT> ah, wait
[19:11] <RainCT> you can't
[19:12] <gouki> I've read it can't be distributed even in non-free, in Debians case, but why, RainCT
[19:12] <gouki> ?
[19:12] <RainCT> gouki: because the GPL and OpenSSL licenses are incompatible
[19:13] <gouki> Ohh, that.
[19:13] <RainCT> gouki: so if I understood that correctly you may have a chance to get it into multiverse if you ask upstream to add an exception to make it compatible with the OpenSSL
[19:14] <azeem> if upstream adds an exception, it can go into universe I'd say
[19:14] <persia> Well, either that, or compile it without OpenSSL support, although that might annoy users.
[19:14] <gouki> persia, yes, I thought about that, but the application loses quite a few useful features.
[19:14] <gouki> I didn't packaged it with SAP support, but that's a minor thing.
[19:16] <RainCT> azeem: it doesn't allow commercial use, so no
[19:16] <RainCT> Er, I'm stupid today xD. It doesn't allow to sell it except of low fees the transmission medium. Not sure if that's considered free
[19:17] <azeem> oh, I only read "GPL", sorry
[19:17] <RainCT> azeem: it adds custom clauses
[19:17] <ScottK> RainCT: No commercial use can go in Multiverse.
[19:17] <RainCT> ScottK: that's what I said :)
[19:17]  * ScottK reads the rest of the scrollback ...
[19:18] <ScottK> Yeah.
[19:18] <ScottK> srry
[19:18] <gouki> So, long story short ... No way to include it.
[19:18] <gouki> Ohh well, was worth the try. Learned a few things :)
[19:18] <RainCT> gouki: if upstream doesn't add a clause for it to be compatible with OpenSSL, no
[19:20] <gouki> Ok, before submitting it to REVU ...
[19:20] <gouki> A configuration file. Can it be cp'ed or is there a another way?
[19:21] <RainCT> gouki: dh_install :P
[19:21]  * gouki is starting to like dh_install allot
[19:21] <gouki> Thanks RainCT :)
[19:21] <gouki> BTW ... Used it for /var/www ... Didn't gave me any output and I don't see anything changed ... Normal?
[19:22] <RainCT> gouki: dpkg-deb --contents *deb
[19:22] <RainCT> gouki: does that list the files in /var/www?
[19:22] <gouki> RainCT, I still haven't build the package, but I'll check.
[19:22] <RainCT> gouki: where are you looking then? dh_install is only executed when you build it
[19:23] <gouki> I'm manually doing dh_install source targe
[19:23] <gouki> Inside the folder which is going to be built.
[19:28] <joaopinto> talking about REVU, is anyone looking at it ?
[19:30] <RainCT> persia: Do you happen to know in how many hours tomorrow's REVU Day starts? :P
[19:31] <joaopinto> I have a package sitting around since August, it did not go into Intrepid, and at the current review rate, it will not get into Jaunty either
[19:32] <RainCT> joaopinto: yeah, intrepid was a pretty bad cycle, wrt new packages
[19:33] <RainCT> joaopinto: if you stay around on IRC and ask for your package to be reviewed from time to time (especially on Fridays) you should have relativelly good chances of getting it into Jaunty :)
[19:34] <persia> RainCT, which day is "tomorrow" for you?
[19:34] <joaopinto> RainCT, I did that, several days, it was not sufficient, and that is not pratical either
[19:34] <persia> Friday started about 9 hours ago.
[19:34] <persia> Maybe 10.
[19:34] <RainCT> persia: 7th
[19:34] <RainCT> oh
[19:34] <persia> Yeah.  It started 9-10 hours ago.
[19:35]  * persia checks the real time
[19:35] <RainCT> joaopinto: but it will be different this cycle (or at least that's what I hope :))
[19:35] <geser> RainCT: you should know that REVU days are around 48 hours long (or so)
[19:35] <persia> Yeah, it's 9:35am in Kiritimati
[19:35] <persia> 49:30 :)
[19:35] <RainCT> geser: I know they are long, but not how long :)
[19:36] <RainCT> persia: thanks
[19:36]  * persia discovers that it's 10:36 in Enderbury, which is even better.
[19:37] <joaopinto> RainCT, sure, judging from the discussion on the ML, I will not be able to upload, which is probably less frustrating than waiting :)
[19:37] <persia> UTC+14 is such a handy timezone, and one I previously didn't know existed.
[19:37] <RainCT> joaopinto: lol. for now, that's just a discussion :P
[19:38] <persia> joaopinto, Are you not an Ubuntu Member yet?  You've been fiddling with Ubuntu packaging for a while now.
[19:38] <persia> Mind you, it's not all been here, but we're glad to have you more involved :)
[19:40] <joaopinto> I have applied for mentorship a few months ago, I was told since I have packaging experience I just need to get more involved, my attempt was REVU since my main work is with new packages
[19:40] <persia> I thought you also did a lot of stuff with new upstreams for existing packages.
[19:40] <persia> And I'm sure the backporters team would welcome some help.
[19:43] <jpds> Evening.
[19:44] <NCommander> and I'm back
[19:44] <NCommander> and my lunch is suffering from a FTLBS, or a dep-wait
[19:44]  * NCommander can't figure out which
[19:44] <joaopinto> I am not aligned with the backporting scope/process, I will keep trying on new packages :P
[19:44] <persia> jpds, Good evening.  Some time ago, I promised to twit you about the irssi firmware workaround, but it's since been discussed enough that there's no point in adding to it.
[19:45] <persia> joaopinto, Fair enough.
[19:45] <RainCT> hey jpds
[19:45] <NCommander> I'm curious who from here will be attending the Cruft classroom
[19:45] <jpds> persia: Yes, I saw - I couldn't add to the discussion at the time as I just got back by net connection.
[19:46] <persia> jpds, Wow!  That's a while without a net connection.
[19:46] <iulian> G'evening, jpds.
[19:46] <jpds> persia: About a month... yeah.
[19:46] <jpds> Hey iulian.
[19:50]  * NCommander needs to find something he can use as a transition example
[19:50] <jcastro> NCommander: 10 minute warning!
[19:50] <NCommander> wait
[19:50] <NCommander> Damn it
[19:51] <NCommander> My workshop is going to be semi-suck because I didn't get a chance to find a good cruft example in the archive
[19:51] <NCommander> and I haven't had time to make one
[19:51] <persia> NCommander, wxwindows2.4 is the ultimate example of cruft.
[19:51] <laga> NCommander: so what? we had a ubuntu install party today and nobody showed up :)
[19:51] <NCommander> persia, do you know anything in universe that can simply go 2.4 -> 2.6
[19:52] <NCommander> ctsim
[19:52] <NCommander> Why is that broken?
[19:52] <persia> We already did all the ones that work.  ctsim is broken.
[19:52] <NCommander> What's wrong w/ ctsim?
[19:52] <persia> That's a question nobody has yet been able to answer.
[19:53] <NCommander> Does it even compile?
[19:53] <persia> It compiles against 2.6, and segfaults when you run it.
[19:53] <NCommander> Oh
[19:53] <NCommander> Well
[19:53] <persia> It doesn't segfault if you compile against 2.4.
[19:53]  * NCommander is going to be debugging and teaching at the same time
[19:53] <nxvl> NCommander: are you a DD already?
[19:53] <NCommander> nxvl, no, but I can get something in the Debian archive in a pitch if needbe
[19:53] <NCommander> nxvl, what do you need
[19:53] <nxvl> NCommander: so you can sponsor a package?
[19:53] <nxvl> NCommander: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=augeas
[19:53] <nxvl> NCommander: it's a package update
[19:54] <NCommander> Oh, its an update?
[19:54] <NCommander> nxvl, does it fix an RC bug?
[19:54] <nxvl> nop, but it's going to sid
[19:54] <NCommander> asac, ping
[19:54] <NCommander> nxvl, I'll ping my debian sponsors and see who's feeling in a favorable upload mood
[19:54] <nxvl> ok
[19:54] <nxvl> :D
[19:54] <nxvl> thank you
[19:54]  * nxvl HUGS NCommander
[19:54] <persia> nxvl, The best way to get it in is to fix an RC bug and then ask for a sponsor :)
[19:55] <NCommander> who here is going to be attending my cruft lesson?
[19:55]  * RainCT after dinner
[19:55] <nxvl> persia: that's why we are organizing a RC bug squashing party on sunday
[19:56] <persia> Why wait?
[19:56] <nxvl> cause i'm quite busy right now
[19:56] <nxvl> :D
[19:56] <persia> Ah.
[19:56] <nxvl> i update that package while i'm waiting for another package to upload
[19:58] <fabrice_sp> NCommander: It is in #ubuntu-meeting, right?
[19:58] <nxvl> fabrice_sp: ubuntu-classroom
[19:58] <RainCT> fabrice_sp: #ubuntu-classroom
[19:58] <NCommander> #ubuntu-classroom
[19:59] <NCommander> sebner, you should attend
[19:59] <fabrice_sp> thanks :-)
[19:59] <NCommander> persia, ctsim doesn't even build with 2.6 here
[19:59] <sebner> NCommander: hmm? what? Sry, I didn't read here
[19:59] <NCommander> sebner, I'm teaching a cruft lesson
[19:59] <NCommander> You may want to attend
[19:59] <sebner> NCommander: I love cruft
[19:59] <sebner> =)
[20:00] <sebner> NCommander: Thx for the hint, I'll participate (besides writing/sending MOTU application) xD
[20:00] <NCommander> sebner, 1 minute
[20:00] <persia> NCommander, Oh, yeah, but the patch to make it build with 2.6 is floating about.  I think there's a copy in the BTS, if you don't see it in LP.
[20:00] <RainCT> sebner: have you packaged something already? *g*
[20:16] <persia> Packaging something from scratch isn't a requirement for MOTU.  I certainly hadn't when I became MOTU.  On the other hand, doing a few difficult things is, and sometimes packaging something new can be a good example.
[20:17]  * sebner hugs persia
[20:17] <sebner> persia: you got a mail btw :P
[20:17]  * ScottK knows at least one person who got core-dev without doing a new package.
[20:17] <sebner> ScottK: you also have a mail
[20:17] <sebner> :P
[20:18] <ajmitch> good morning
[20:18] <sebner> ajmitch: hi =) Though here it's evening =)
[20:18] <persia> sebner, I'll carefully put it with the 10,000 others in the queue, but I promise yours will get more priority than most.
[20:18] <geser> Hi ajmitch
[20:18] <sebner> persia: because it's MOTU or because of me :P
[20:18] <ajmitch> persia: #4,999 in the queue?
[20:18] <RainCT> persia, ScottK: yeh I know. I just like it to annoy sebner :D
[20:19] <sebner> therefore RainCT also got a mai
[20:19] <sebner> +l
[20:19] <sebner> ^^
[20:19]  * geser finished today two applications just to see two new applications appear :/
[20:19] <sebner> Many got a mail
[20:19] <sebner> geser: you also got a mail
[20:19] <sebner> xD
[20:19]  * sebner is just crazy now
[20:19] <sebner> sry
[20:19]  * ajmitch is glad to not receive email
[20:19] <sebner> hrhr
[20:19] <RainCT> sebner: wow, nice CC list
[20:20] <sebner> RainCT: I need +1's :P
[20:20] <sebner> persia: I also sent one to norsetto, maybe he replies so we see that he is alive :)
[20:20] <sebner> RainCT: *fanboys*
[20:20] <ScottK> ajmitch: But you like bitter, so maybe we should arrange some then.
[20:20] <ajmitch> ScottK: why do you think I like bitter?
[20:21] <ScottK> ajmitch: Dunno.  Maybe that was me.
[20:24] <RainCT> sebner: the second point in the future goals list is a direct -1 :D
[20:24] <ScottK> Spamassassin is an interesting pacakge.  It looks like it takes longer to build the documentation than the actual package.
[20:24] <sebner> RainCT: what's that again? ^^
[20:24] <RainCT> sebner: C# ^^
[20:24] <sebner> RainCT: I won't steal gbrainy =)
[20:25] <sebner> geser: I hope it's ok that I CC'ed you though you are member of MC
[20:25] <woody86> jdong- Hey, thanks for the name change :)
[20:25] <RainCT> sebner: I only maintain gbrainy because I hope for its author to be enlighed some day and redo it in a proper language *g*     (</jk)
[20:26] <sebner> RainCT: ahahahahahahaha! xD xD xD
[20:26] <RainCT> now that's a scary laughter!  /me hides
[20:26] <ScottK> OK.  6 uploads and two backports requests later, I think I'm done with Spamassassin.
[20:26] <ajmitch> yes, sebner is a scary individual
[20:26]  * sebner hides
[20:27] <RainCT> sebner: btw, how many things do you have tp sponsor? :P
[20:27] <ajmitch> time to try & get this jaunty pbuilder working
[20:27] <sebner> RainCT: a lot = +1 , nothing = -1? ^^
[20:27] <RainCT> sebner: you got it
[20:27] <DktrKranz> sebner, I'd say the opposite
[20:27] <ajmitch> how many have you tested & for how many merges have you pushed the patches upstream?
[20:28] <sebner> ajmitch: are you talking to me?
[20:28] <ajmitch> yes
[20:28] <geser> sebner: no problem
[20:28] <sebner> ajmitch: patches -> debian. That reminds me that I have to forwad 1,2 to debian. Thx
[20:32] <RainCT> sebner: what's YRB?
[20:32] <sebner> RainCT: I can't say that without getting a ohmy  ^^
[20:35]  * quadrispro is away: Away
[20:35]  * sebner also for a while
[20:37] <DktrKranz> ScottK, NCommander: could you please have a look at bug 294180 and give an opinion about it?
[20:38] <NCommander> DktrKranz, I'm in -classroom ATM
[20:38] <DktrKranz> whoops :(
[20:40] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, did you read my email?
[20:40] <DktrKranz> quadrispro, which one
[20:40] <DktrKranz> I think I've lost it ;)
[20:41] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, about afbackup
[20:41] <DktrKranz> quadrispro, no, probably I've got it in office, could you re-send it?
[20:42] <quadrispro> yes, of course
[20:42] <ajmitch> ScottK: is there much functional difference in using pbuilder from hardy compared to the one you've backported?
[20:43] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, another thing: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
[20:43] <DktrKranz> quadrispro, ah, finally :)
[20:44] <quadrispro> yes :)
[20:46] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, I've just re-send the mail
[20:46] <RainCT> quadrispro: I've just had a fast look at it. Looks pretty good, but perhaps the description could be improved a bit (I don't understand what it's supposed to do only by reading it)
[20:48] <ScottK> ajmitch: I've just used it the same way I always do.  Looking at debian/changelog I think it's mostly bug fixing/minor improvements.
[20:49] <quadrispro> RainCT, you're right, I'm trying to write a more accurate description
[20:49] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Needs testing before I can do anything with it.
[20:49] <DktrKranz> ScottK, I'll ask reporter to provide common use cases, just to make sure it works
[20:53] <DRebellion> Hey! Unfortunately, I'm getting an error whilst trying to create my jaunty pbuilder chroot: "E: No such script: /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/jaunty". I have intrepid-backports enabled, but it seems I'm not getting a recent enough version of debootstrap?
[20:54] <chrisccoulson> i don't think a newer version has been backported yet has it?
[20:54] <chrisccoulson> oh, it has
[20:54] <DRebellion> chrisccoulson, =/
[20:55] <chrisccoulson> DRebellion - bug 294153
[20:56] <DRebellion> chrisccoulson, packages.ubuntu.com says its not in intrepid-backports
[20:56] <NCommander> DktrKranz, care to look at this? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mtd-utils/+bug/294428
[20:58] <chrisccoulson> DRebellion - it's still queued for building
[20:58] <DRebellion> chrisccoulson, ah, thank you.
[20:58] <DktrKranz> NCommander, applying such patch won't harm, but avoid implementing a patch system if there isn't one already
[20:58] <NCommander> DktrKranz, I was just going to take the jaunty package and tweak it for proposed
[20:59] <DktrKranz> better applying it inline
[20:59] <NCommander> :-P
[20:59] <NCommander> k
[20:59] <DktrKranz> no harm, but changes introduced are much lower
[20:59] <persia> Note that this applies for packages also in Debian.  For Ubuntu-local packages, if they aren't maintained in a VCS somewhere, adding a patch system is considered a good thing.
[21:00] <DktrKranz> not for SRUs, we usually avoid touching how packages are built
[21:01] <persia> Oh, yeah.  Adding a patch system is never right for an SRU :)
[21:01] <DktrKranz> there are exceptions, of course, but usually it's better not impementing a patch system while doing SRUs
[21:01] <NCommander> ah
[21:01]  * NCommander nods
[21:01] <persia> What would be an exception?
[21:01] <NCommander> DktrKranz, I assume I still however do update-maintainer on an SRU
[21:02] <DktrKranz> e.g. .orig.tar.gz which contains a .tar.bz2 archive which get uncompressed at build-time
[21:02] <NCommander> -1 -> -1ubuntu0.1 w/ the new maintainer, right?
[21:02] <persia> Ah, right.  I suppose it's unavoidable in that circumstance.
[21:02] <NCommander> Or do I not even touch the maintainer for SRUs?
[21:02] <DktrKranz> plr for feisty (IIRC) was a good example of it
[21:03] <DktrKranz> NCommander, you have to mangle it
[21:03] <NCommander> ok
[21:03] <NCommander> Just making sure (I figured as much since it is policy, but I wasn't sure if SRUs were different)
[21:04] <NCommander> which brings up the second question
[21:04] <NCommander> How do you specifically use debuild -v?
[21:04] <NCommander> What do I give as the changelog?
[21:04] <DktrKranz> you can always use it
[21:04] <NCommander> I'm sorta confused on what I give it as an arguement
[21:05] <DktrKranz> latest ubuntu version
[21:05] <NCommander> So 1ubuntu0.1?
[21:05] <persia> Do we do maintainer-mangling for SRUs to Dapper?  I'd think not, as the maintainer change didn't happen until feisty.
[21:05] <NCommander> (in this case?)
[21:05] <DktrKranz> persia, maintainer mangling is for >= gutsy
[21:06]  * persia remembers mangling maintainers for feisty, but as it's EOL now, I suppose it doesn't matter
[21:06] <DktrKranz> yes
[21:06]  * NCommander thinks he managed the one SRU he did to dapper and whistles innocently
[21:06] <DktrKranz> it was included in feisty, but feisty is old now
[21:07] <persia> NCommander, Your public wants you.
[21:07] <NCommander> persia, I saw
[21:10] <ajmitch> let the world burn in flames...
[21:12] <Laney> soren, geser: Do you know if the patch 0900-compile-against-linux-libc-dev.patch in iptables is needed?
[21:13] <persia> Laney, Does it compile without it?  Does the result work?  With a name like that, I'd suspect you'd get a build failure if you skipped it.
[21:13] <Laney> It doesn't even apply
[21:13] <Laney> and I can't find where it was introduced
[21:14] <Laney> it might have been 012-2.6.22-headers-fix.patch
[21:15] <Laney> nope..
[21:16] <persia> ((ntohl(a->in6_u.u6_addr32[(l) / 32]) >> (31 - ((l) & 31))) & 1) -> ((ntohl(a->__in6_u.__u6_addr32[(l) / 32]) >> (31 - ((l) & 31))) & 1) looks like it could be a significant change though : I'd expect a compilation failure without it if it7s still needed.  If it compiles, you probably don't need it.
[21:17] <Laney> Right, I haven't got that far yet
[21:19] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, new upload -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
[21:22] <quadrispro> RainCT, what do you think about this? -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/installation-report-generator-0811062218/installation-report-generator_0.1.6-0ubuntu1.diff
[21:25] <RainCT> quadrispro: have you changed anything beside the license headers?
[21:26] <iulian> emgent: Hi, are you working on gkrellm merge?
[21:26] <quadrispro> RainCT, I'm looking to those errors, but no, I didn't change anything
[21:26] <ajmitch> can someone kindly stab gcc for me, please?
[21:26]  * iulian kindly stabs gcc.
[21:27] <ajmitch> thank you
[21:27] <lifeless> stabbing you softly forever
[21:27] <iulian> Don't mention it.
[21:28] <emgent> iulian: feel free to take it
[21:28] <quadrispro> RainCT, ah! does every file have to contain license header?
[21:28] <lifeless> its up the to the upstream authors
[21:28] <quadrispro> *every .py*
[21:28] <iulian> emgent: Cool, thanks.
[21:28] <lifeless> recommended practice by the FSF for the use of the GPL is to put it in every file
[21:28] <emgent> iulian: np, thanks to you
[21:29] <lifeless> but it probably depends on the definition of 'work' in copyright law whether that is pragmatic or required in a particular region
[21:30] <quadrispro> ah
[21:30] <iulian> emgent: By the way, I made a diff between the old ubuntu .dsc file and the new one and it has ~47,000 of lines (it's a new upstream release). I guess there is no problem attaching it to LP, right?
[21:30] <ScottK> iulian: Not much point is there?
[21:30] <lifeless> iulian: yeah, it's fine.Might want to zip it if its getting big
[21:31]  * ScottK doesn't imagine anyone is actually going to manually review a 47K lines diff.
[21:31] <iulian> Yea, that's what I thought...
[21:35] <lifeless> a interdiff might be more useful
[21:35] <lifeless> what was the patchset carried, and whats the new patchset carried
[21:36] <persia> For  new upstream, we generally recommend attaching a diff.gz.  It's easy enough to reconstruct the package from the diff.gz, and the sponsor can produce their favorite comparison format.
[21:37] <iulian> OK, thanks persia.
[21:37]  * iulian files a bug and attaches the diff.gz.
[21:37] <pochu> DktrKranz, nxvl: hi, would you mind having a look at bug 292870 for an Intrepid SRU? There's a debdiff attached, and the fix is 2 lines :)
[21:39] <DktrKranz> pochu, do you plan to fix it for hardy too?
[21:40] <pochu> DktrKranz: there's no -dbg package in hardy, so no conflict there
[21:40] <DktrKranz> ah, cool ;)
[21:40] <pochu> :)
[21:40] <DktrKranz> go ahead
[21:41] <pochu> DktrKranz: thanks
[21:43] <pochu> uploaded
[21:48] <soren> Laney: I don't think it is needed, no.
[21:48] <Laney> awesome
[21:49] <soren> persia: It's not actually a patch to fix an ftbfs. It was a patch to make sure iptables was compiled against linux-libc-dev rather than a random set of kernel headers.
[21:51] <RainCT> quadrispro: btw, could you add a watch file?
[21:51] <persia> soren, Given the content of the patch, and that description, I'm confused, but as I've never looked at that code, I'll trust you :)
[21:52] <soren> persia: I agree it's rather spethial :)
[21:55] <quadrispro> RainCT, yes
[22:01] <DktrKranz> fta, regarding bug 272959, is it OK to upload revisions to fix it if firefox-3 compatibility is confirmed, or it's better wait for firefox-2 removal?
[22:02] <fta> DktrKranz, firefox-2 has been removed already
[22:03] <DktrKranz> oh, I didn't notice it
[22:04] <DktrKranz> so I guess it's fine
[22:04] <fta> !info firefox-2
[22:25] <pochu> DktrKranz: bug 292644 has a patch for an SRU too, it's a one liner :) if you have one minute
[22:25] <pochu> DktrKranz: I've just uploaded the fix to Jaunty, and Debian has the fix in svn (not in the archive yet, otherwise I'd have synced)
[22:26] <DktrKranz> pochu, done
[22:27]  * pochu hugs DktrKranz :)
[22:27]  * DktrKranz hugs pochu back and blames himself for not noticing that in time for the release
[22:29] <pochu> DktrKranz: don't blame yourself, the bug was reported after the release and noone noticed it before
[22:29] <pochu> luckily it's in a dbg package, so few people is affected
[22:29] <DktrKranz> I like upgrade path failures
[22:29] <DktrKranz> but I have no chance to get them sorted
[22:29] <pochu> if it was in the real plugin package, we would have had tons of duplicates ;)
[22:30] <DktrKranz> definitely
[22:39] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, are you MOTU-SRU? I remember well? ;)
[22:39] <DktrKranz> quadrispro, you know it perfectly ;)
[22:40] <quadrispro> DktrKranz, bug 292696
[23:17] <Laney> YES
[23:17] <Laney> EAT THAT, IPTABLES
[23:59] <Laney> soren: Bug #294220 for you


[05:53] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Alternate amd64 [Artful Alpha 2] (20170725) has been added
[05:53] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Alternate i386 [Artful Alpha 2] (20170725) has been added
[06:19] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Artful Alpha 2] (20170725) has been added
[06:19] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop i386 [Artful Alpha 2] (20170725) has been added
[06:45] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Next Desktop amd64 [Artful Alpha 2] (20170725) has been added
[06:45] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Next Desktop i386 [Artful Alpha 2] (20170725) has been added
[16:40] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Alternate amd64 [Artful Alpha 2] has been updated (20170725.1)
[16:40] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Alternate i386 [Artful Alpha 2] has been updated (20170725.1)
[17:27] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Artful Alpha 2] has been updated (20170725.1)
[17:27] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop i386 [Artful Alpha 2] has been updated (20170725.1)
[18:30] <rko> Hi, I am trying to boot Lubuntu into mode 3, but adding "3" at the end of the linux boot command doesn't work for reason. So I tried to disable service "lightdm" by deleting S01lightdm from /etc/rc3.d directory, but if I do that the system doesn't boot properly..
[18:34] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Next Desktop amd64 [Artful Alpha 2] has been updated (20170725.1)
[18:34] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Next Desktop i386 [Artful Alpha 2] has been updated (20170725.1)


[20:56] <xytis> Hello, I'm trying to set up a preseeded install on computers with windows. Is it possible to automate ntfs partition resizing?


[00:27] <bazhang> Sary was banned in #ubuntu IdleOne ?
[00:30] <Flannel> bazhang: doesn't look like it
[00:30] <bazhang> not seeing him in the bantracker. talking to him in PM about incursions into -women and posting offtopic nonsense in #ubuntu
[00:30] <bazhang> Flannel, thanks.
 And I was wondering how to compile IE8?
[07:42] <elky> Is he serious?
[07:43] <bazhang> he also wondered why he had to pay for Firefox
[07:43] <bazhang> I PM'd him and suggested he stop and join -ot
[07:58] <elky> Well, trolling isn't really on topic there either
[16:04] <elky> Um. #f.
[16:56] <knome> juxindawoods @#x, please watch him
[16:56] <knome> i'm ircing w/ phone atm
[19:07] <oCean_> Hi, please see <Guest1057> in #u
[19:35] <jpds>