[12:05] <setuid> Well that was fun... seems the fglrx module doesn't built at all, and nothing I can find contains it, nor radeon or r300 modules for the kernel, so it all dies after I try to log in.
[12:06] <setuid> I get the gdm login/graphics/etc. but after I log in, it just recycles gdm, no X at all after login.
[12:06] <setuid> Is there some magical mojo to get the fglrx kernel module built for a custom kernel?
[12:21] <jbailey> benc, airlied: I noticed that the kernel from today has more r300 bits in it.
[12:21] <jbailey> So I'm trying it again. =)
[12:21] <BenC> jbailey: yeah, I'm hoping that will help you
[12:34] <setuid> hrm, r300 you say? ;)
[12:38] <BenC> well, he goes a git-pull from latest kernel
[12:43] <jbailey> BenC: *lol*
[12:43] <jbailey> I'd say "sheesh, you barely stopped for a smoke", except I'm sure that's not true ;)
[12:57] <BenC> this merge is getting ugly :)
[01:01] <jbailey> Do you cherry pick changesets, or create new diffs when you do backports?
[01:09] <BenC> jbailey: a little of both
[01:10] <jbailey> I'm really not looking forward to merging glibc with Debian again.
[01:10] <BenC> some of the stuff can't be cherry picked, especially things that made the semphore -> mutex switch
[01:10] <jbailey> Right.
[01:10] <jbailey> Assuming you're targetting .17 for edgy?
[01:10] <jbailey> I'm wondering if glibc should have support for the new syscalls.
[01:10] <BenC> man, I know I've seen atleast 50 conflicts pass by so far
[01:10] <BenC> yeah, maybe even .18
[01:10] <jbailey> 'k
[01:11] <BenC> if .17 released within 4 weeks of edgy opening, then we'll target .18
[01:11] <jbailey> You're brave.
[01:11] <jbailey> Aren't we theoretically still aiming for an October edgy release?
[01:11] <BenC> Linus has been sticking with his 3 month release cycles pretty closely
[01:11] <BenC> are we??!
[01:12] <BenC> wow, that sounds like it will be a little insane
[01:12] <jbailey> I haven't seen anything that says we're not.
[01:12] <crimsun> yeah, we're shooting for a shortened one to get back on track
[01:13] <crimsun> 6.06, 6.10, 7.04, 7.10, ...
[01:14] <jbailey> Anyhow, off to the gym.
[01:52] <BenC> shit, this merge is going to take a few days
[01:55] <desrt> oh man
[01:55] <desrt> edgy kernel already?
[01:57] <BenC> 360 files conflicting
[02:16] <cjb> This is for edgy?  I think Fedora does things pretty well by rebasing to Linus every day.
[02:16] <cjb> But I guess they stay closer to upstream than you guys.
[02:17] <desrt> it takes a lot of guts to be as cool as benc :)
[02:17] <cjb> he doesn't feel the peer pressure, huh :)
[02:22] <cjb> Of course, Fedora also introduces weird bugs that break things that they then ignore the bug report on for a month, and then continue to ignore it after I find out what they've done wrong and give them a patch to fix it.  *sigh*
[02:23] <desrt> BenC; got a sec to explain something to me?
[02:23] <airlied> cjb: kernel bugs? or other things?
[02:24] <desrt> (or anyone who knows, really)
[02:24] <cjb> airlied: Yeah, kernel, I was thinking of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=190128 .
[02:24] <desrt> when building a new kernel config, how do i decide if it needs a new ABI number and how do i affect the change?  is this somehow automated?
[02:24] <cjb> (Which is still broken in Rawhide.)
[02:25] <airlied> I haven't seen davej online lately, he might be away.. :-)
[02:25] <cjb> He's posting to lkml and pushing new kernels, so I think he is around, but I've heard that he's pretty swamped.
[02:27] <airlied> they should have a hey I fixed this flag in bugzilla..
[02:27] <crimsun> desrt: yes, it's in debian/rules.
[02:28] <desrt> crimsun; does kpkg automatically deal with it?
[02:28] <crimsun> desrt: it's sed, grep, wc, and shell magic.
[02:30] <cjb> airlied: That's a really good idea.  I wouldn't have privileges to change state to it, though, unless they make it so that anyone can.  Which would also be a good idea.
[02:36] <jbailey> cjb: Every distro has their own approaches to kernel, toolchain, etc.
[02:36] <jbailey> It's what makes us all interesting ;)
[02:37] <desrt> jbailey; is there more of a formal office in montreal these days?
[02:37] <cjb> Yeah.  And then there's Xen, which rebases against -stable guaranteeing that *no* distro will be in a position to merge it, no matter how often they rebase to Linus.  :)
[02:39] <desrt> crimsun; i guess the thing that confuses me -- you have to know the kernel version number before you start building it
[02:39] <desrt> crimsun; but it doesn't seem like you'd know the ABI version number until after building
[02:40] <BenC> desrt: If you do the debian/rules build, it will tell you the ABI changed
[02:40] <BenC> and if it does do: debian/rules bumpabi
[02:40] <BenC> and be sure to edit the version in debian/changelog
[02:40] <desrt> then i have to rebuild?
[02:40] <BenC> debian/rules binary-debs
[02:40] <BenC> is the target I use
[02:40] <BenC> desrt: yeah
[02:40] <desrt> crikey
[02:40] <BenC> desrt: it will only build the first target though
[02:41] <BenC> not the whole thing
[02:41] <desrt> ok.  if i'm fairly sure the ABI is gonna change then i can just bumpabi first?
[02:41] <BenC> desrt: apt-get install ccache
[02:41] <desrt> good call.
[02:41] <BenC> yeah
[02:41] <desrt> does that setup automagically?
[02:41] <BenC> you have to add /usr/lib/ccache to the front of your PATH
[02:41] <desrt> done & done
[02:42] <desrt> so first, build
[02:42] <BenC> maybe even set CCACHE_DIR to some place you want
[02:42] <BenC> debian/rules binary-debs
[02:42] <BenC> if the ABI changes, run debian/rules bumpabi
[02:42] <desrt> erm....
[02:42] <desrt> there is no debian/ directory here?
[02:42] <BenC> edit debian/changelog to reflect the ABI change
[02:42] <BenC> then how can you have an existing ABI? :)
[02:43] <desrt> where do i get debian/ from?
[02:43] <jbailey> desrt: Yeah, we take possesion of it next week.
[02:43] <BenC> apt-get source linux-source-2.6.15
[02:43] <desrt> oh.
[02:43] <desrt> i thought install == source for linux-source
[02:43] <BenC> well, it is, minus the debian directory that we use to build the packages
[02:43] <desrt> ok.  this actually makes quite a bit more sense now :)
[02:44] <desrt> what of make-kpkg?
[02:44] <desrt> jbailey; that's pretty sweet.  where is it?
[02:44] <chuck_> bleah...
[02:46] <desrt> BenC; so i take it the bump-abi rule just copies the new abi info into the debian/ directory?
[02:50] <BenC> desrt: it just sed's the files needed to reflect the new version
[02:50] <desrt> there's a stored copy of the 'old' abi information somewhere in debian/ for purposes of comparison, right?
[02:54] <desrt> ok... so the -23 source package has a copy of the abi's for -22 but not for -23
[03:04] <jbailey> desrt: Near Lucien L'alier.
[03:04] <jbailey> (mtro)
[04:21] <desrt> jbailey; cool.
[04:42] <jbailey> BenC: X spun out and kill -9 didn't solve it.
[04:42] <jbailey> So still some sort of problem  Ah well.  post-dapper problem.
[04:44] <airlied> jbailey: still nothing causes the spin?
[04:44] <airlied> just general usage?
[04:44] <BenC> jbailey: that sucks
[04:45] <jbailey> airlied: In this case it was in a screensaver.
[04:45] <jbailey> I was afk, so I don't have more details.
[04:45] <jbailey> In a screensaver, I can't really tell if it's thatit's changing, was about to DPMS, etc.
[04:45] <airlied> hmm I'll probably have to run more screensavers.. you on 64-bit or SMP?
[04:45] <jbailey> It's unfortunately a very poor testcase.
[04:45] <jbailey> both. =)
[04:46] <airlied> ah lovely... I've always wondered if we might have some SMP issues..
[04:46] <jbailey> airlied: If you have some sort of assault test that you want me to run, I can cheerfully do so.
[04:46] <airlied> my only SMP machine has an X1300 in it, so I can't use it yet..
[04:46] <jbailey> Although perhaps not tonight.
[04:46] <airlied> jbailey: I'd love to have one that's the problem we don't so finding these things is a real pita..
[04:50] <airlied> I might put a PCI radeon in my SMP box for a test...
[04:53] <jbailey> YEah, I'm sure.
[04:53] <jbailey> I don't know how to start troubleshooting this sort of thing.
[04:54] <jbailey> If it's at all significant, kill -9 wouldn't take out Xorg
[04:54] <airlied> yeah nothing will take it out once the GPU crashes..
[04:55] <airlied> it's also like playing whack a mole, you smack one bug, another bug the exact same pops up, it could be 5 bugs all different having the same symptoms..
[04:58] <jbailey> heh.
[04:58] <jbailey> Are you part of upstream for this?
[05:01] <airlied> jbailey: I'm the DRM maintainer for upstream..
[05:02] <jbailey> Ah, cool.
[05:02] <jbailey> You seemed excessivly clueful for a random observer. =)
[05:03] <airlied> I also try and fix r300 things because I hate ATI. :-P
[05:08] <fabbione_> morning guys
[05:08] <jbailey> airlied: Eh, you express hatred in a way with which I am not familiar ;)
[05:08] <jbailey> Heya Fabio!
[05:08] <fabbione> hey Jeff
[05:09] <fabbione> touch: cannot touch `/root/glibc-2.3.6/stamp-dir/check_sparc64': No space left on device
[05:09] <fabbione> WTF
[05:09] <fabbione> infinity: i need your binaries.. sort of now
[08:07] <BenC> airlied: When I sync to 2.6.17-git, I can just revert and merge conflicts in drm to match Linus' tree, right?
[08:10] <airlied> BenC: yes there should be nothing in your tree that isn't in Linus..
[08:54] <infinity> mjg59: Too late to do anything about it now, but I think your "switch to 640x480 on some machines" hack could be circumvented with just tweaking the 640x400 timings instead.
[08:55] <infinity> mjg59: If I'd known you were looking at doing that, I would have worked with you to test some stuff.  I didn't have access to any hardware where the current (admittedly not-quite-right) timings didn't work, so I couldn't test better ones. :/
[09:31] <bluefoxicy> whew.
[09:31] <bluefoxicy> that is ugly as shit.
[09:33] <bluefoxicy> trivial but 1) i don't understand the code really so I may be off by 1; 2) I shoved two additions, a subtraction, a bit shift, and a modulus in one statement.
[09:33] <bluefoxicy> at least the code appears robust enough to handle it even if I screw up.
[02:38] <infinity> BenC: Hrm, the CONFIG_RTC=y thing didn't go in, did it?
[02:42] <Keybuk> oh, hurrah
[02:42] <Keybuk> pleeeease put that in
[02:42] <Keybuk> and GENRTC=y
[02:42] <Keybuk> let more pointless modules bite the dust <g>
[02:44] <infinity> It's less about pointless modules and more about SMP machines *requiring* the RTC driver to manipulate the hwclock in any sane fashion.
[02:45] <BenC> infinity: damnit...that's two config options I forgot to add
[02:45] <infinity> So hwclock and ntp don't blow up, among others.
[02:45] <Keybuk> hwclock wouldn't blow up now anyway
[02:45] <BenC> I forgot HUGEPAGES for PPC64 aswell
[02:45] <BenC> I'll sneak it into the first update
[02:46] <desrt> Keybuk; try to convince BenC to release a -24 for dapper :)
[02:46] <BenC> no no
[02:46] <BenC> -23.36 if anything :)
[02:46] <desrt> fwiw i have a sneaky suspicion that hugepages changes the abi
[02:46] <Keybuk> desrt: that wouldn't be an ABI change
[02:47] <desrt> you certainly get new functions
[02:47] <infinity> BenC: When you say "first update", you mean "the first update before release", not "after", right? :)
[02:47] <Keybuk> yeah, let's have ANOTHER kernel ABI change before release
[02:47] <Keybuk> they're SO MUCH FUN
[02:47] <infinity> BenC: I suspect the RTC change especially won't fly after release.
[02:47] <BenC> if HUGEPAGES changes the ABI, then powerpc will get an ignore file
[02:47] <infinity> (Doubly-so, since we seem to build some udebs with rtc drivers in them?... Feh)
[02:47] <BenC> I don't think it would affect modules anyway
[02:48] <desrt> ignore file?
[02:48] <BenC> desrt: echo "Yes" > debian/abi/powerpc.ignore
[02:48] <BenC> so I don't have to bump the ABI
[02:48] <desrt> ah.  i see.  cheater file :)
[02:48] <infinity> Of course, we put those udebs in universe, so we know d-i isn't using them ANYWAY.
[02:48] <BenC> if it only adds functions, it would ignore it anyway
[02:48] <BenC> since new != important
[02:49] <BenC> wait a second
[02:49] <desrt> plus... the normal modules get upgraded along with -image and you don't really have a whole lot of linux-restricted-modules kicking around on ppc
[02:49] <BenC> I'm not working...I don't have money in my budget for extraneous beer-to-super expenses
[02:49] <Keybuk> BenC: fabbione promised to wipe clean the irc logs :)
[02:49] <infinity> BenC: I'll cover your drink requirement.  I'm sure I already owe several.
[02:49] <BenC> lol
[02:50] <infinity> Hell, I actually UPLOADED on my day off.
[02:50] <infinity> So, I'm a lost cause.
[02:50] <Keybuk> infinity: and it wasn't exactly a subtle package either ;)
[02:50] <BenC> I'm at 73 files remaining of 360 for the edgy 2.6.17 git merge
[02:50] <zyga> hi
[02:51] <zyga> I've got a kernel panic just a moment ago
[02:51] <zyga> I've got pictures if anyone is interested
[02:51] <desrt> BenC; btw.. is it normal that the kernel doesn't build-dep on kernel-wedge or m4?
[02:51] <BenC> zyga: you're too late...all oopses are not considered features, which enable breaks to prevent hyper-tension and repetitive syndromes
[02:52] <jbailey> s/not/now/ ?
[02:52] <zyga> ? :D
[02:52] <BenC> yes
[02:52] <zyga> duh.. I need to run now
[02:52] <zyga> I'll post the pictures and come back in 5 hours
[02:52] <zyga> bbl
[02:52] <BenC> desrt: the kernel, or the kernel source?
[02:52] <desrt> BenC; source
[02:53] <desrt> oh man i'm a dumbass.  i did apt-get build-dep linux-source.  disregard.
[02:53] <BenC> apt-get install linux-kernel-devel
[02:53] <BenC> that'll help a little too :)
[02:54] <BenC> http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2006/05/ubuntu_linux_dapper.html
[02:54] <desrt> so i'm still trying to figure out the abi thing
[02:54] <BenC> and, our install is easier than MacOSX, which I think says a lot more
[02:54] <desrt> the -23 source i downloaded contains the -22 abi files.... how does the build check if my build is the same as -23?
[02:54] <BenC> desrt: it doesn't
[02:55] <BenC> we have to add the -23 files in afterwards, they aren't important in that source file
[02:55] <desrt> ah.  so if you were building a kernel, you'd have them kicking around in there
[02:55] <infinity> desrt: Grab the -23 ABI file from /boot/ :)
[02:55] <desrt> ahah.  truth revealed
[02:56] <desrt> infinity; thx. i've been wondering :)
[02:56] <BenC> desrt: debian/bin/getabis 2.6.15 23
[02:56] <BenC> that will get them _all_
[02:56] <infinity> BenC: Actually, that's a fair point.  Maybe our shipping kernel source should contain the ABI files, for people trying to mangle derivative kernel builds.
[02:56] <BenC> in the process, downloading a few hundred megs of .debs :)
[02:56] <infinity> BenC: Which makes a good excuse for one last upload. :)
[02:56] <desrt> FAILED
[02:56] <desrt> :)
[02:57] <BenC> desrt: debian/bin/getabis 2.6.15 23.35
[02:57] <infinity> BenC: The process is confusing enough for people to understand without also wondering where the files are. :)
[02:57] <desrt> to hell with it
[02:57] <BenC> infinity: Nah, ppl love a good file hunt :)
[02:58] <jbailey> BenC: I'm vaguely amused at comparisons between Linux distros and Vista.
[02:58] <BenC> jbailey: I'm ammused that our TCP/IP stack needs optimizing
[02:58] <jbailey> With a target release of midwinters, the likelyhood of xgl being stable is high.
[02:59] <jbailey> Did davem just plan a redo of a large part of the IP stack?
[03:00] <jbailey> I thought I saw something about doing channels and some other optimisation.
[03:00] <infinity> Our IP stack has needed optimisation for eons, this is no surprise.
[03:00] <jbailey> But just that all the flashing zing that Vista can pump out will probably be matched in every aspect that an end user will care about.
[03:00] <infinity> The WinNT IP stack was lifted nearly verbatim from BSD, and has been very performant from day 1.
[03:01] <infinity> But, yeah, most users don't give a hoot about a slightly better IP stack.
[03:01] <infinity> And most server scenarios don't push data from RAM fast enough for those benchmarks to mean anything to them.
[03:01] <infinity> (Some few here and there actually do, but most machines aren't bottlenecked elsewhere)
[03:02] <infinity> s/aren't/are/
[03:05] <desrt> heh
[03:06] <desrt> this dapper review has an entire paragraph devoted to "we should have shipped networkmanager by default"
[03:08] <infinity> Yeah, WiFi is either not important at all, or THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER.  It's a rather polarising thing.
[03:08] <infinity> I'm still in the "not important at all" camp, despite having a small wireless network at home.
[03:08] <desrt> it depends on if you have a laptop or not
[03:09] <infinity> Mostly because when I want to get any real work done, I still switch to copper (and probably always will, since copper is always a few steps ahead)
[03:11] <desrt> my laptop's inability to get onto my wireless network without me invoking a shellscript is sort of a sore spot
[03:12] <desrt> it doesn't hurt me too much....
[03:12] <desrt> but it hurts my "look how awesome ubuntu is!" credibility :p
[03:12] <infinity> Mine seems to do well anywhere with NM now.
[03:12] <infinity> WEP, WPA, etc, etc.
[03:12] <desrt> nm is terribly buggy on bigendian
[03:13] <infinity> So are many wireless drivers. :/
[03:15] <desrt> the opensource broadcom ones seem to work fairly well
[03:15] <desrt> and the latest upgrade massively improved the range i get
[03:16] <desrt> i used to barely be able to connect from the far corner of my office... now i get flawless signal from across the hall
[03:22] <BenC> linux-source-2.6.15 (2.6.15-23.36) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
[03:22] <BenC>   Changes by Ben Collins
[03:22] <BenC>   * powerpc64: Enable HUGETLB
[03:22] <BenC>   * x86: Build-in rtc and genrtc on all but the 386 kernel.
[03:22] <BenC> I'll try to get this in for dapper release, but no guarantees
[03:23] <desrt> :)
[03:23] <infinity>   * amd64: Same as above
[03:23] <infinity> ?
[03:23] <BenC> good call
[03:23] <infinity> I have no idea about RTC drivers on PPC, so I can't comment there, sadly.
[03:23] <infinity> If you have an SMP G5, you could do some hwclock testing.
[03:23] <desrt> what's the issue with having the driver built-in?
[03:24] <desrt> kernel gets correct initial time without having to use hwclock in the initscript?
[03:24] <infinity> But on amd64, we know we want it (heck, the installer does "echo rtc >> /etc/modules" on amd64, doesn't it?)
[03:24] <infinity> desrt: No.
[03:24] <infinity> desrt: hwclock and ntp (and other hwclock-using things) just plain don't work right on SMP systems without an rtc driver.
[03:25] <infinity> desrt: So having it modular on our kernels that are now all SMP-enabled is just plain silly.
[03:25] <desrt> btw: there is no 'rtc' module on ppc
[03:25] <desrt> infinity; why not just load the module on boot?
[03:28] <infinity> desrt: Because loading it on boot unconditionally it no different from having it built in?
[03:28] <desrt> fair enough :)
[03:28] <infinity> desrt: s/it no/is no/
[03:28] <infinity> Simplicity++
[03:28] <desrt> i thought the ubuntu kernel policy was "make everything a module that is humanly possible"
[03:28] <infinity> I dislike adding more moving parts without a good reason.
[03:29] <infinity> No, that's the Herbert Xu kernel policy.
[03:29] <desrt> that's my kernel policy too :p
[03:29] <infinity> Ours is more like "make things modular if there are conflicting ways to set up a system"
[03:29] <desrt> or my pre-ubuntu-feeding-my-kernel policy
[03:29] <infinity> You'll note we don't modularise the IP stack, for instance.
[03:29] <infinity> Which CAN be done.
[03:30] <infinity> But it's insane.
[03:30] <desrt> wait.. the true test
[03:30] <desrt> brb
[03:30] <desrt> ok
[03:30] <desrt> unix domain sockets -- not a module
[03:30] <desrt> good job :)
[03:31] <infinity> Yeah, I vaguely recall Xu building that one modular.
[03:31] <desrt> who is Xu?  i think i'd like this chap.
[03:32] <infinity> Herbert Xu.. Was a Debian kernel maintainer for ages, worked for us on the kernel back in the warty and hoary days, and did some contract work for us in the breezy timeframe.
[03:33] <infinity> Has nothing to do with us recently.
[03:56] <fabbione> BenC: what about HUGEPAGE for sparc?
[03:56] <fabbione> HUGETLB i mean
[03:56] <BenC> I can do that too
[03:56] <fabbione> is it worth?
[03:56] <fabbione> or are we going to destabilize *?
[03:56] <BenC> probably best to ask davem
[03:57] <fabbione> i know he enables it in his kernels
[03:57] <BenC> fabbione: might be a good idea then
[03:57] <jbailey> BenC: 10 files?!?
[03:57] <jbailey> slacker ;)
[03:58] <BenC> it'd be a lot more if my perl skillz weren't soo good :P
[04:40] <fabbione> BenC: cool :)
[05:43] <BenC> yay, first 2.6.17-git build started!
[05:43] <BenC> if this works on the first try, I'll be worried
[05:44] <crimsun> I expect it to break horribly in sound/  ;-)
[05:47] <BenC> I reverted most of sound/
[05:47] <BenC> it's pretty much stock 2.7.17-git
[05:47] <crimsun> oh excellent.
[05:47] <BenC> except for my snd-power-mac forward port
[05:48] <BenC> crimsun: do you go both ways...like if I send you patches can you submit them to alsa? :)
[05:48] <crimsun> BenC: oh sure
[05:48] <BenC> good, I need to get the snd-powermac changes merged
[05:48] <BenC> benh has been bugging me to get it done for awhile
[06:39] <infinity> BenC: Stop hitting on our volunteer contributors.     I forgot and now in dapper its linux-source?
[10:54] <bluefoxicy> woot!
[10:55] <bluefoxicy> I wrote a patch to let me shift around entropy for mmap() and stack bases via kernel command line!  ... now to build and test.
[11:12] <zyga> back
[11:17] <zyga> anyone awake?
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> I'm awake
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> And very bored.
[11:24] <bluefoxicy>   LD [M]   drivers/media/video/zr36067.o
[11:24] <bluefoxicy>   CC [M]   drivers/media/video/videocodec.o
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> It seems I have much more boredom to come.
[11:25] <zyga> I've got pictures of a kernel panic
[11:25] <zyga> interested? :)
[11:25] <bluefoxicy> ocrap, i have it set to build for like 59 different architectures
[11:25] <bluefoxicy> abort, abort!
[11:25] <zyga> (fspot is still working on that part though :)
[11:25] <zyga> 59? :)
[11:26] <bluefoxicy> didn't clean antyhing out
[11:27] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ImsI6i74.html  <-- this is what I'm doing
[11:28] <zyga> checking
[11:28] <zyga> I'll post the pictures in a moment
[11:28] <bluefoxicy> gotta love how I replace 2 lines of code with 23 lines ;)
[11:29] <zyga> holy sh... :-)
[11:29] <bluefoxicy> random_factor = get_random_int() % (4096 << (mmap_random_bits - 1));  <-- this is wrong :)
[11:29] <zyga> I had just plugged an USB mic+headphones
[11:29] <zyga> and a notification popup asked me to configure it...
[11:29] <zyga> when did linux distros get that good!
[11:30] <bluefoxicy> lol
[11:30] <infinity> The more interesting thing isn't that it asked... It's whether or not it workes afterward. :)
[11:30] <infinity> s/workes/worked/
[11:31] <zyga> good point
[11:31] <zyga> well gstreamer seems to see it
[11:32] <zyga> hmm, bDeviceClass - 0
[11:32] <zyga> I don't know usb :P
[11:32] <zyga> nyway
[11:32] <bluefoxicy> lsusb
[11:32] <zyga> pictures are ready
[11:32] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I did use lsusb
[11:32] <bluefoxicy> what'd you panic this time?
[11:33] <zyga> bluefoxicy: probably right
[11:34] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  next april I should send a patch to lkml to fix panic()
[11:34] <bluefoxicy> it occurs to me the kernel doens't actually panic
[11:34] <zyga> #define panic() BUG()
[11:34] <zyga> http://ubuntu.suxx.pl/2006--1/bugs/kernel-panic-0
[11:35] <zyga> (tla has left its marks on my soul)
[11:35] <bluefoxicy> I'll fix this by having it mdelay() for a few seconds and then randomly printk() one of {"My mind is going","I'm scared, Dave; will I dream?","Daisy, daisy....","HELP ME!!!!!!} in a loop.
[11:36] <zyga> hehe
[11:38] <zyga> hrumpf... gnome-sound-properties doesn't remember the default sound device setting
[11:41] <zyga> whoooa
[11:41] <zyga> it works
[11:42] <zyga> are my photos of any use?
[11:43] <bluefoxicy> I see lots of numbers.
[11:43] <bluefoxicy> so not to me :)
[11:43] <zyga> there is a backtrace...
[11:44] <zyga> http://ubuntu.suxx.pl/2006--1/bugs/kernel-panic-0/DSCN5461.JPG
[11:44] <bluefoxicy> I know


[00:41] <Pici> ...
[00:41] <gpc> » » »
[00:42] <rww> dear lord richthegeek is not good at the concept of "stop"
[00:42] <rww> (and yes, that appears to have been a significant factor last time around too)
[00:43] <Pici> (I had a feeling)
[01:24] <maco> Pici: do i banforward avenge now?
[01:24] <Pici> maco: I don't know what that was
[01:49] <rww> it was unamerican activities.
[01:54] <gpc> wish the loco channels were all +F
[01:55] <bazhang> naming debian after soap products?
[01:55] <gpc> Debian Snuggles
[01:56] <gpc> Debian Tide w/Bleach
[01:56] <bazhang> debain wretch
[01:57] <Jordan_U> Did anyone else just see kolo able to talk after being quieted in #ubuntu?
[01:57] <bazhang> nope
[01:57] <gpc> nope
[01:57] <bazhang> preceded it by a few nanoseconds
[01:57] <Jordan_U> I wonder why it appeared so in my client.
[01:57] <bazhang> laaaaag
[02:01] <Jordan_U> Lag in my connection would explain why my +q happened so late after I actually /aq'd, but doesn't quite explain why messages from kolo came after the message that he'd been quieted.
[02:01] <bazhang> I saw none, just one letter somewhat nearby
[02:01] <gpc> best to not dwell on such things
[02:02] <gpc> will only drive you crazy
[02:02] <rww> lag between servers, not lag between your client and the server
[02:02] <gpc> see what it has done to rww
[02:02] <gpc> he actually knows the reason
[02:03] <Jordan_U> "If it wasn't for my horse I never would have made it through that year in college"
[02:03] <maco> how long do you boil udon?
[02:03] <gpc> udon boil it
[02:03] <gpc> what is udon? /me googles
[02:03] <rww> @lart gpc
[02:03]  * gpc forces me to use /me on me
[02:04] <maco> gpc: noodles
[02:04] <gpc> oh
[02:04] <gpc> till they are done, I would assume much like pasta
[02:05] <maco> looking for a ballpark though...
[02:05] <rww> udone **
[02:05] <gpc> if they are fresh (not frozen or dry) not for very long 1-2 minutes
[02:05] <rww> you cook pasta for 2 minutes?!
[02:05] <bazhang> if that
[02:05] <gpc> fresh pasta yes
[02:05] <rww> what
[02:05] <gpc> if the water is at a rolling boil
[02:05] <bazhang> roiling
[02:05] <gpc> roiling lol
[02:06] <maco> these are dry
[02:06] <bazhang> 'gan mien'
[02:06] <gpc> maco 5-7 minutes ball park
[02:06] <maco> stopped at the korean market on "get stuff to stock brand new apartment" the day i moved in
[02:06] <maco> gpc: ok thanks
[02:06] <maco> its been like...6mo since i last made udon
[02:06] <rww> oh, not dry. huh.
[02:06] <gpc> but soon as they look done, try one and you will know
[02:06] <maco> i know soba is 5 minutes
[02:07]  * persia tends to soak it in boiled (not boiling) water for 3 minutes
[02:09] <maco> apparently putting the bullion cube in after the water boils makes it sputter
[02:09] <maco> i wont be doing that again...
[02:09] <rww> This conversation is confusing me. I'm going back to my harry potter fanfiction.
[02:09] <gpc> hehe
[02:09] <maco> huh. why have i never bought miso paste? this doesnt make sense.
[02:10] <gpc> well look at that, roiling.
[02:10]  * gpc learned me something new today.
[02:10] <bazhang> you doubted?
[02:11] <gpc> I didn't
[02:11] <gpc> I needed explaining
[02:11] <rww> I keep trying to read gpc as "General Protection F... meh".
[02:12]  * persia idly wonders if it makes sense to have a special channel to discuss debian naming conventions, japanese cooking, and people's nicknames
[02:13] <rww> if only there were an offtopic channel for the Ubuntu namespace... >.>
[02:13] <Jordan_U> #ubuntu-optopic?
[02:13] <maco> but the person who lives in japan *looks at persia* isnt in the offtopic channel
[02:13] <maco> (i think)
[02:14] <persia> There's a reason for that :p
[02:14]  * maco tries to tab him
[02:14] <maco> right yeah, not there
[02:14] <rww> gpc: anyways. I kinda wished they were too, except that then I realized that that would be yet another rule being pushed on LoCo channels, and also easily-abusable.
[02:14] <rww> although, was the old freenode behavior essentially all channels being +F? I forget.
[02:15] <marienz> I think so, yes
[02:15] <gpc> rww: yeah, but there has to be some way of making it so a Parent Channel can forward to Child Channel. something like a namespace forward I guess
[02:15] <persia> I'm really not sure that's ideal.
[02:16] <persia> There's many times when we want to send someone to a LoCo channel, but forcing them there seems less freindly.
[02:16] <gpc> there would be less abuse I would hope
[02:16] <gpc> there are many times that no matter how much we try to explain how to get to the LoCo channel the user just does not get it
[02:16] <rww> persia: more friendly than +qing them because they don't understand the concept of "no $lang in #ubuntu" after 10 minutes of trying :(
[02:17] <persia> rww, I don't think so.  I think the /query has a personal flavour which folk appreciate.
[02:17] <persia> I also think the wealth of !cc factoids help direct folk
[02:17] <gpc> I forced forward will be "unfriendly" at first but then the user will realize where they are and I hope understand.
[02:17] <bazhang> unless its usuario
[02:18] <gpc> s/I/A/
[02:18] <persia> Consider that the user may be using IRC for the first time, and Ubuntu for the first time, and have no idea what happened: force-forwarding them may cause them to expect that to happen again, which ends up for more work for #ubuntu ops.
[02:19] <gpc> so us being forced to +q the user where all they see is a message in English telling them They can't send to channel is better?
[02:19] <rww> persia: good point
[02:19] <gpc>  a gentle kick in the butt to the correct channel is less annoying then not understanding why they aren't getting any help at all
[02:20] <rww> reminds me of the people that think the way to get to their channel is to /join #ubuntu, type #ubuntu-cc, and then click it.
[02:20] <persia> gpc, Well, if we've done the l10n work correctly in the clients, the message isn't in English.
[02:20] <persia> rww, Some of those folk are autojoining #ubuntu because of default client config
[02:21] <persia> Might be worth trying to define some master list of #ubuntu-cc channels, and configuring all the clients to reference this list to send people to appropriate local channels rather than #ubuntu by default.  Of course, this presupposes the channels are staffed, etc.
[02:21] <rww> persia: either way, typing channels and clicking the typed name is suboptimal. is why I'm glad that an increasing number of !cc factoids have "type /join #ubuntu-cc to join"
[02:21] <gpc> why can't the client config be set to join the proper -country channel?
[02:21] <persia> gpc, Staffing, reliability, coverage, etc.
[02:22] <rww> also, I believe that LP bug on #ubuntu being too big had part of this discussion
[02:22] <persia> Some LoCo channels only get traffic a couple hours a week.
[02:22] <gpc> or join both #ubuntu and -loco
[02:23] <persia> Might be confusing for new folk for some clients, especially folk who are connecting the first time, and may not understand there are two channels.
[02:24] <gpc> So we are back to a new user being forced to an English channel where they get hit with !cc and don't understand what to do with it.
[02:24] <maco> i keep reading !cc as being a factoid about the Community Council
[02:24] <bazhang> hah
[02:25] <maco> oh good the power came back on
[02:25] <persia> Fine.  Is "!${CC}" better?
[02:27] <persia> gpc, Unfortunately, there's no good solution, really.  The best I've ever heard involves 1) creating some staffing requirements catalog to be on a whitelist of LoCo channels, 2) refactoring the code of every IRC client to use a shared whitelist for first login, and 3) maintaining and monitoring this mess in a way that keeps everyone motivated.
[02:27] <persia> Even that only covers a subset
[02:29] <gpc> there is a good solution. add a feature to the ircd where all ops of channels in namespace can forward to any other channel in namespace
[02:29] <gpc> the ops can be trusted to not abuse this feature right?
[02:30] <persia> Not all ops for all channels, sadly.
[02:30] <persia> And further, it doesn't help the users to learn how not to require operator time
[02:30] <rww> I'm an op in #trollpit. I /join #ubuntu-rginoigfno, register it, +f it to #ubuntu, op up, and +f #trollpit to #ubuntu-rginoigfno
[02:30] <rww> assuming +f is transitive. I've never checked
[02:31] <gpc> group contact of namespace has to approve creation of #ubuntu-trollpit
[02:31] <persia> No it doesn't.
[02:31] <gpc> to prevent abuse
[02:31] <persia> group contact of namespace may request uncreation of #ubuntu-trollpit
[02:31] <gpc> yes it should
[02:31] <bazhang> that's a channel rww ?
[02:31] <rww> bazhang: probably not. I pressed random keys.
[02:32]  * persia has created 5 or 6 #ubuntu-foo channels, and never had to go through any approval procedures (although they were all justified, and I informed the IRCC, etc.)
[02:32] <gpc> to avoid problems you stop it at the source, you don't wait for it to become an issue and then fix it.
[02:32] <gpc> persia: I am saying if there were such a feature as I described above
[02:32] <persia> Having to go through namespace contacts would so hugely get in my way for some things.
[02:33] <rww> and also be yet another hoop/rule for LoCo channels to have to deal with. we're trying to encourage them, not scare them off with orders.
[02:33] <persia> The last channel I created, I created to stop an argument: any delay would have been bad.  It now usually has a population of 30-50, and is relatively calm.
[02:34] <gpc> ok so #channel-foo can be created but can't forward until approved
[02:34] <persia> I still don't think forwarding most users really helps them.
[02:35] <gpc> you don't issue !cc 60 times a day
[02:35] <gpc> perhaps
[02:35] <bazhang> there are only a tiny number of users that refuse knowingly to join their respective channels
[02:36] <persia> Indeed (and no, I only issue !cc 3-5 times a week)
[02:36] <bazhang> so imo, /msg the ordinary ones , as the channel scrolls by so fast for many to read
[02:36] <gpc> correct, but for that tiny few who don't "get it" it would be useful
[02:37] <bazhang> the really hardcore abusers usually get killed by idoru anyway
[02:38] <bazhang> kolo never did join #ubuntu-pl from what I can see
[02:39] <bazhang> he seems to be /msg'ing floodbot1 though
[04:35] <gpc> DaGeek247: How can we help you?
[04:35] <DaGeek247> oh, i dont need help
[04:36] <gpc> ok, then
[04:36] <gpc> ...
[06:46] <Hobbsee> knome: as for why i'ts allowed in our repos, it's
[06:46] <Hobbsee> "because no one has complained loud enough in debian for it to be removed"
[06:47] <persia> Erm, that's not the only reason.
[06:47] <persia> There's oodles of stuff in the repos that was never in Debian.
[06:48] <Hobbsee> true that, but it's an autosync from debian
[06:50] <persia> Yeah, well.
[06:53] <elky> it's pretty much a guarantee that the complaints after its removal will be much greater.
[06:58] <persia> The trivial solution is some string changes to avoid worrisome words.
[06:59] <persia> Much like the hotbabe applet ended up being renamed and getting skinnable graphics, and then being acceptable.
[07:19] <topyli> there are probably numerous packages to change/remove if we go that route. what about jack the ripper for example?
[07:19] <topyli> very useful, and can be misused
[07:20] <topyli> where does it end? emacs?
[07:20] <bazhang> hehe
[07:20] <persia> topyli, You mean the "jack" package?  The description there seems perfectly reasonable.
[07:20] <Tm_T> emacs is evil
[07:21] <topyli> grr i typed !jack in my shell. i irc too much
[07:21] <elky> lol
[07:22] <topyli> persia: apparently i don't mean jack
[07:23] <persia> What is "jack the ripper" then?
[07:23]  * persia thought it was the old name of the "jack" package, before it was cleaned up
[07:23] <topyli> john :)
[07:23] <Jordan_U> persia: Jack the Ripper: nothing appropriate.
[07:23] <topyli> !info john
[07:24] <bazhang> john the ripper
[07:24] <persia> topyli, That clearly states "... a tool designed to help systems administrators to find weak ... passwords ...", which is key to ensuring your systems are secure.
[07:24] <topyli> it does say admin yes
[07:25] <persia> The key is phrasing and presentation.  The same code can be a 1337 7001 or a systems management essential.
[07:25] <elky> You can't approach things differently to black hat and think you're going to succeed as a white hat
[07:26] <persia> Yes you can.  The PR team for white hats describe things clearly.  The PR team for black hats provide obfuscation and deniability.
[07:26] <persia> Mind you, the code and engineering practices are the same.
[07:26] <elky> that's not approach...
[07:26]  * topyli goes through packages mentioning 'crack' :)
[07:31] <topyli> the description of fcrackzip is neutral. 'able to crack password protected zip files with brute force...' ophcrack is similar, just tells you what it does. sipcrack is similar
[07:32] <topyli> aircrack-ng actually has the most whitehatted description :)
[08:02] <bazhang> Garzooka, hi
[08:03] <Garzooka> hello
[08:03] <bazhang> Garzooka, thanks for joining; you are currently +q in #ubuntu after being repeatedly asked to stay on topic, and not doing so.
[08:03]  * Garzooka is only 14 years old
[08:03]  * rww sighs
[08:03] <Garzooka> I have established that
[08:04] <bazhang> Garzooka, and  you know that #ubuntu is support only, correct?
[08:04] <Garzooka> correct
[08:04] <bazhang> Garzooka, so why continue on with the offtopic chat when repeatedly asked to stop
[08:06] <Garzooka> I was going to stop after that last off topic line that I said
[08:06] <bazhang> Garzooka, you stated clearly in the channel that you don't even use Ubuntu.
[08:06] <Garzooka> yeah but I like to help or attempt to help
[08:06] <bazhang> Garzooka, and as you don't use Ubuntu, and are only offtopic in #ubuntu , was a reason you needed to join there?
[08:07] <bazhang> Garzooka, being offtopic constantly is not a help, nor even an attempt to help. it's a busy channel and that just creates more noise.
[08:08] <Garzooka> to be able to use #ubuntu freely, because sometimes I do actually solve peoples issues
[08:08] <bazhang> Garzooka, I have yet to see an instance of you solving anyone's issues.
[08:08]  * Garzooka is autistic and is 14
[08:09] <rww> neither of which in any way excuse your behavior
[08:10] <Garzooka> well a few days ago in #freenode I helped someone, and in #windows I have helped people
[08:10] <bazhang> Garzooka, thats fine.
[08:11] <bazhang> Garzooka, as you no longer use Ubuntu, and cannot credibly stay on topic in #ubuntu , then is there a real reason for you to join there?
[08:11] <bazhang> gah
[08:11] <rww> popey: If I remember correctly, the above conversation is relevant to #ubuntu-uk's ops.
[08:12] <Tm_T> yup
[08:12] <bazhang> well I tried; first PM then asked him to come here.
[08:12] <Tm_T> also, I fail to see anything "autistic" on his behaviour
[08:12] <bazhang> his response to why he was offtopic constantly: "I wanted to see what would happen"
[08:13] <Garzooka> sorry I lost signal
[08:14] <hypatia> Garzooka: you're plenty old enough at 14 to understand that when someone asks you to stop something because it's outside the rules for a channel, that you should stop it
[08:14] <Garzooka> its what I do, I help people and sometimes forget what channel I am in
[08:15] <Garzooka> I know you see sometimes I just want to send one more off topic line then I stop
[08:15] <hypatia> Garzooka: so slow down, check what channel you're in
[08:16] <Garzooka> thats what I did right after I got +q
[08:18] <Garzooka> and now I feel realy annoyed
[08:19] <Garzooka> and need to come to a solution
[08:20] <bazhang> Garzooka, thats fine.
[08:20] <bazhang> Garzooka, as you have trouble knowing what channel you're in, now would be a good time to take a break from #ubuntu
[08:20]  * Garzooka has a bad feeling that his #ubuntu-uk ban may take longer then he wants it to
[08:21] <Garzooka> I have I am not even in the channel
[08:21] <bazhang> Garzooka, okay that's fine.
[08:22] <Garzooka> I am starting to get fed up
[08:22] <Garzooka> with all this +q you banned stuff
[08:22] <bazhang> Garzooka, then best learn to follow channel rules.
[08:22] <Garzooka> its annoying,
[08:22] <hypatia> Garzooka: you might want to consider modifying the behavior which got you banned, then
[08:22] <rww> this ^
[08:23] <bazhang> okay, I'm stepping back, thanks.
[08:23] <Garzooka> you see I want to be able to use irc freely and come to a solution todat
[08:24] <Garzooka> taday
[08:24] <Garzooka> today
[08:24] <rww> At some point, instead of dodging responsibility for your actions by ban-evading or mentioning your demographics or claiming you have a vast array of scripts that mimic problematic user behavior, etc., you should consider actually changing your behavior.
[08:24] <Garzooka> be sides I am aproching school now
[08:24] <Garzooka> I HAVE changed
[08:24] <Garzooka> you just dont know that
[08:25] <rww> The scrollback in #ubuntu does not agree with this claim.
[08:25] <Garzooka> anyway at school now seeya this afternoon
[08:25] <rww> Anyway, it's my bed time. 'night.
[09:00]  * popey sighs
[09:02] <Tm_T> somehow I feel happy that I didn't used IRC in my early years (:
[09:06] <jussi> As per my -irc ML post of about 30 seconds ago....
[09:06] <jussi> !+ubuntu+1
 $curDevelLong is the codename for Ubuntu $curDevelNum - $curDevel is NOT released and is NOT stable - Discussion and support only in #ubuntu+1
[09:06] <jussi> New bot features FTW :)
[09:12]  * popey chuckles at jussis mail
[09:12] <popey> every time someone uses the phrase "went ahead" or "go ahead" it just makes me think of Office Space
[09:12] <popey> personal issue, sorry :)
[09:20] <Tm_T> popey: we love other's personal issues (:)
[09:20] <popey> \o/
[09:25] <jussi> :D
[09:57] <popey> Further to the recent discussions about askubuntu and its "officialness" for mentioning in topics / factoids. I just noticed whilst filing a bug on launchpad that in the dialog where you put a description it suggests that if it's not a bug but a question then use answers.lp.net or askubuntu.com
[09:59] <tsimpson> for me "official" (generally) means it's listed on http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community
[10:02]  * popey files a bug to get that done
[10:05] <Tm_T> jolly good
[10:05] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/708540
[10:05] <popey> done
[10:39] <ikonia> where is the change control and discussion about implimenting new features in ubottu
[10:40] <Tm_T> #ubuntu-bots-devel I would suppose
[10:40] <Tm_T> or -team
[10:40] <ikonia> unacceptable
[10:40] <ikonia> unacceptable
[10:40] <ikonia> it should be discussed on the mailing list and at council meetings before being put live into the ubuntu name space
[10:41] <ikonia> I disagree with the feature add, I am fed up of the double standards
[10:41] <ikonia> I "don't" disagree with the feature add I should say
[11:15] <topyli> ikonia: how does this feature make your life harder?
[11:17] <topyli> all developers are required to contact you if they add features their software. if you're interested in bot development, you're free to pay attention to what the developers do
[11:17]  * persia prefers separation of oversight of tool users and tool developers, to create implicit tension and incentives to meet targets.
[11:18] <topyli> if a change fundamentally affects our work, i'm sure it'll be discussed
[11:23] <persia> Indeed, and the fear of that makes the bot devs more likely to choose implementations of new features so that we don't notice any regressions.
[11:28] <BajK_> eh, what's this again -.-
[11:35] <topyli> apparently bajk is forwarded here from #ubuntu by maco, for an inappropriate quit message
[11:41] <Tm_T> yup
[11:41] <ikonia> topyli: sorry was away from keyboard, it doesn't make my life harder at all, I fully support it, I just don't agree with the implimentation to live without consultation, everything else has to go through the council, through the mailing lists, why is the bot features different
[11:41] <ikonia> topyli: it was agreed that bot features would not go live without agreement again after the ubottu messaging the channel feature that got put in and then removed
[11:42] <jrib> but I just saw bajk in #ubuntu
[11:42] <jrib> actually, he's there now
[11:43] <ikonia> BajK_: be with you in just a moment
[11:43] <topyli> jrib: #kubuntu, sorry
[11:43] <jrib> topyli: ah
[11:43] <BajK_> okay
[11:43] <ikonia> topyli: won't hurt to explain either
[11:43] <ikonia> BajK_: just wanted to ask you to change your quit/part message, you got ban forwarded from the #kubuntu channel as it's a bit offensive
[11:44] <ikonia> hence why you ended up here and then had to join #ubuntu instead of #kubuntu
[11:44] <BajK_> ikonia: my quit message? doesn't this revert to default?
[11:44] <BajK_> when I use the uttons to part/quit?
[11:44] <ikonia> 15:56 -!- BajK_<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [Quit: Stupid IRC and fucking Bots.]
[11:44] <ikonia> that one
[11:44] <ikonia> if you could remove that from your setup / not use that sort of language/content again, it would be appreciated
[11:45] <BajK_> I did that manually using /quit since those stupid floodbots are so damn annoying and I couldnt do anything about it since this stone-age IRC protocol splits long messages up into other ones which triggers the spambot and, yeah.
[11:45] <BajK_> but it should be "Quassel - chat comfortably, anywhere" since this is the default setup then
[11:45] <ikonia> ok - so could you please not use that sort of language or content in any form in the Ubuntu IRC name space please.
[11:46] <BajK_> sure
[11:46] <BajK_> sorry for boterhing
[11:46] <ikonia> ok, I'll remove the ban forward from #kubuntu for you
[11:46] <BajK_> thx
[11:46] <ikonia> you're welcome to re-join #kubuntu now, but please try to keep your language and content in mind
[11:49] <ikonia> BajK_: you're also welcome to leave this channel now, but thank you for joining and resolving this
[11:50] <BajK_> yep, was just busy writing a bug report, bye
[12:13] <bazhang> ugh my chanserv py chokes on death^
[12:15] <bazhang> if someone else wants to take a look, feel free
[12:16] <bazhang> death^> bazhang, sorry what is the topic again ? yesterday i smoked some kind of heavy buds, it was like rm -rf
[12:21] <bazhang> may want to keep an eye on -ot as its moved there
[12:40] <Tm_T> ...that didn't go well
[12:40] <ikonia> topyli: if you want him back in the channel, you can remove the ban at your lesure
[12:47] <gp5st> why was i banned from #ubuntu?
[12:47] <gp5st> last i as there i asked a question, then realized i was told wrong and i had a debian vm not an ubuntu one and moved over to the right irc channel
[12:58] <ikonia> I thought I'd removed that, apologies
[12:59] <ikonia> fixed now
[14:37] <bazhang> ugh
[15:01] <h00k> bazhang: I concur
[16:29] <ikonia> can we please look at closing #ubuntu-uds ?
[16:31] <Pici> ikonia: Is it active?
[16:31] <ikonia> it's open to join with people in, but no activity
[16:32]  * jpds files under 'Mostly Harmless'.
[16:32] <ikonia> it's not the end of the world
[16:32] <ikonia> totally harmless, just seems right to close it until use
[16:44]  * Pici talks to biiter
[16:46] <charlie-tca> just got to open #ubuntu-uds again in a couple of months ;-)
[21:28] <bazhang> trolling multiple channels
[21:30] <Pici> bazhang: then I won't waste my time with him.  Thanks.
[21:30] <bazhang> Pici, -v in #defocus then went on a rampage
[21:31] <guntbert> just for your info: natt got himself quieted in #freenode and devoiced in #defocus....
[21:31] <bazhang> guntbert, yep thanks! :)
[21:32] <guntbert> you're welcome :-)
[21:33] <bazhang> * natt has quit (K-Lined)
[21:43] <bazhang> windows releases in iso?
[21:46] <Jordan_U> bazhang: MSDN network (legally)
[21:46] <bazhang> Jordan_U, yep. wonder if thats where philip_ got his
[21:46] <Jordan_U> Doubt it ;)


[05:17] <major> hi, i want to run localapps on ltsp, but there is lot of wiki for ltsp on ubuntu... can som1 point me to the last reference on the topic or just tell me generally how it works?
[05:18] <major> do i have to add something to the tftpboot/lts.conf?
[05:18] <major> do i have to chroot and install them?
[05:46] <HedgeMage> major: I'm afraid I'm no LTSP expert, you may try again in a few hours when more people have woken up.
[13:32] <major> hi, i want to run localapps on ltsp, but there is lot of wiki for ltsp on ubuntu... can som1 point me to the last reference on the topic or just tell me generally how it works?
[13:32] <major> do i have to add something to the tftpboot/lts.conf?
[13:32] <major> do i have to chroot and install them?
[13:53] <alkisg> major: you need something like that: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSPKarmicLocalAppsFirefox
[15:52] <Gieltjev> hi


[04:43] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: released 2.2.1... soon as released bugs show up :P
[04:46] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: We did kindof expect that, did we not?
[04:46] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  to make things worse, the person who had the bug installed from git to /usr/local and still can't figure things out. They are kubuntu20.04 with Studio on top. they have now tried to remove 2.2.0 which has tried to (or has) remove installer
[04:46] <OvenWerks> I just wish they had waited for the package to arive
[04:47] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: They didn't ask for help first, thought they knew better than the system.
[04:47] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I may remove most of convert and instead duplicate that code in both autojack and controls
[04:48] <OvenWerks> The problem they describe shouldn't be able to happen
[04:48] <OvenWerks> I have fixed it brute force :P
[05:39] <Eickmeyer> Hehe
[05:44] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Building now, I'll backport in the morning. We hiked a fairly difficult trail by Mt. Rainier today, so I'm a bit exhausted.
[05:52] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: anything outside is... exhausting
[05:52] <OvenWerks> We seem to have started to get the smoke here
 "OvenWerks: Well, when it's not..." <- A kernel module should be able to be as fast as static kernel code. If it's slower being a module shouldn't be the reason.


[00:55] <ToStItOs> will any external dial up modem work with Xubuntu?
[01:04] <Darth_Tux> ToStItOs, probably the ones that will work with any linux
[01:28] <ToStItOs> thanks Darth Tux
[02:46] <Happy-Dude> hiya: I have a question with the partition manager: http://imgur.com/qKzcW.png -- what do I select for the "Mouse point" option?
[02:47] <th0r> hehe you mean MOUNT point.
[02:48] <Happy-Dude> [>.<] my mistake
[02:48] <th0r> is this going to be your only linux partition?
[02:48] <Happy-Dude> mhm
[02:49] <th0r> a suggestion....create three partitions...the first will be the linux OS...and needs about 10-15GB. The second is swap, and should be 1 to 1.5 times your memory size. The third, is the rest of the space for linux. The first mounts to / ... the second is swap and has no mount, the third mounts to /home
[02:50] <th0r> The first mount point is just / no dots
[02:51] <Happy-Dude> this is actually what the person I'm also talking to on #crunchbang is suggesting :)
[02:51] <th0r> as for the file system, I have been using ext4 with no problems, but have heard a few that have had trouble, so you might want to use ext3
[02:51] <Happy-Dude> what would the effect of tweaking vm.swappiness do?
[02:52] <th0r> if you have plenty of ram you don't really need swap. I monitor my system with gkrellm and have never seen the swap space used...I have 2GB ram
[02:52] <th0r> so the short answer is on modern computers swapiness has little to no effect
[02:52] <Happy-Dude> 384 MB, so x3 would be about ... I'll just set it to 1.2 GB
[02:52] <th0r> I wouldn't think you would need more than about 512MB
[02:53] <th0r> too much swap is just wasted hard drive space.
[02:54] <th0r> wait a minute while I type that info into #crunchbang <smile>
[02:54] <Happy-Dude> so, a fair swap size ... since I do have little ram, I should just keep with 1GB, right? (I don't store that much data anyway)
[02:55] <th0r> I would only make the swap about 512MB for 384MB ram....no need for much more.
[02:55] <th0r> unless you are trying to do cad or graphics editing...in which case you really should buy another computer
[02:55] <th0r> or at least more ram
[02:56] <Happy-Dude> heh, alright, I got it ^^
[02:56] <Happy-Dude> what would the swap's partition be: logical?
[02:57] <th0r> no...it is just swap....there is no filesystem or partition...just swap
[02:58] <Happy-Dude> oohh okay -- sry, I'm a bit new to this [>.>]
[02:58] <th0r> np
[02:58] <th0r> I was new to it once.....then all the dinosaurs died....
[02:58] <Happy-Dude> x)
[03:01] <Happy-Dude> for the Linux OS (the / partition) -- is it supposed to be logical or primary?
[03:02] <th0r> primary if possible
[03:02] <th0r> are you sharing the drive with windows or osx?
[03:02] <Happy-Dude> got it (swap is also assigned to primary -- is that a problem?) --- no, complete fresh install
[03:02] <Happy-Dude> well, over ubuntu 9.04
[03:03] <th0r> shouldn't be a problem..../home can be a logical partition, but I think you can have three primaries.
[03:03] <Happy-Dude> what is the difference between logical and primary?
[03:04] <th0r> I am not a hard drive expert...but I know the number of primary partitions is limited., I also know that windows must be in a primary partition, but thinnk it is possible to run linux from a logical if necessary
[03:06] <Happy-Dude> alright, sounds cool: no windows parition, and the 3 paritions can be primary
[03:07] <th0r> if you have to reinstall or want to do a fresh install for the next upgrade, do NOT format the /home partition...keep it. That way all your configs and personal data are intact even if you do a totally fresh install
[03:07] <th0r> and it is almost always a good idea to do a fresh install when you upgrade a distro
[03:07] <Happy-Dude> (I don't believe I had a /home partition)
[03:08] <th0r> most new users make one partition and mount it to / but then if you want to reformat and reinstall you lose everything.
[03:08] <Happy-Dude> yeah -- something kinda messed up when moving from Intrepdi to Jaunty [~_~] (faster, but some stuff didn't work quite right)
[03:08] <th0r> if you have a separate /home, everything can remain intact even though you reformat the / partition
[03:08] <Happy-Dude> so, that's why I'm making one now right?
[03:08] <th0r> yeah...my point exactly.
[03:09] <Happy-Dude> does the order of partitioning matter?
[03:09] <th0r> yeah....by making one now, when you upgrade to karmic you can do a fresh install but not lose any of /home
[03:09] <th0r> order isn't really an issue
[03:10] <Happy-Dude> well, I've learned at space at the end of the drive runs faster, so swap should be at the end ?
[03:10] <th0r> faster? You got a cray?
[03:10] <Happy-Dude> (dunno -- it's just what I've learned from Windows and its defragging behaviors)
[03:10] <th0r> modern drive speeds are such that the order of the partitions is not really an issue
[03:11] <th0r> used to be...but not much anymore
[03:11] <Happy-Dude> for ATA, perhaps it is?
[03:11] <th0r> yeah...but you are in the real world now...where things work like they are supposed to <smile>
[03:11] <th0r> although not always the way we THINK they should
[03:11] <Happy-Dude> lol
[03:12] <Happy-Dude> the Linux OS should be the '/' Mount Point, right?
[03:12] <th0r> right
[03:12] <th0r> you will find the OS there /usr , /var , /etc , and so on
[03:12] <Happy-Dude> (would this impact me in anyway during typical file operations?) -- like, would I have to know anything in advance when browsing/ saving/ editing/ moving?
[03:12] <th0r> everything but /home
[03:13] <th0r> nope....partitions and drives are totally transparent in linux. When you mount a usb drive, for instance, it is just another folder in the tree
[03:13] <th0r> there is no C and D like in windows...it is all folders
[03:14] <th0r> when you plug in an mp3 player, or a usb drive, or a thumb drive, it will show up as a folder in /media
[03:14] <Happy-Dude> I see -- looks like I've got some learning to do with Linux and Windows filesystem differences :)
[03:15] <th0r> check out the linux documentation project (tldp.org) and this link.....http://www.ubuntupocketguide.com/index_main.html
[03:15] <Happy-Dude> so, the Linux OS is a 20 GB partition (though it doesn't appear as one -- is 19.1 close enough?)
[03:15] <Happy-Dude> ah, I've saved that up too -- going to look at it... when I have time [>.>] ...
[03:15] <th0r> oh yeah...I left 35GB for / and am sorry I did. With my install (lots of stuff) I am using less than 7GB
[03:15] <BenBurch> Good evening!
[03:16] <Happy-Dude> I'm guessing since this is a minimal install, I should just do 15 GM ?
[03:16] <Happy-Dude> GB*
[03:16] <th0r> 15 will be plenty
[03:16] <th0r> save the rest for /home so you can take more pictures or rip more CDs
[03:17] <Happy-Dude> gotcha, sounds good
[03:17] <th0r> EVERYTHING that is yours should go in your home directory...it will be /home/<username>
[03:17] <Happy-Dude> mhm
[03:17] <th0r> save all your docs, manuals, pictures, etc there...nowhere else
[03:17] <Happy-Dude> and thusly, I can manipulate Linux installs while preserving my data, right?
[03:18] <th0r> except, of course, for the removable stuff in /media that I mentioned earlier <smile>
[03:18] <th0r> right
[03:18] <th0r> all your configs for programs and stuff like that will be there too...so when you change the OS your login for email stays, as does  your config for irc, etc
[03:19] <BenBurch> I have a question about X11 setup.  I have a netbook that has a 1024x600 display.  Is there a way to get X to create a virtual desktop larger than the hardware display and slide about in it somehow?
[03:19] <th0r> I am the wrong person for that question BenBurch, hopefully someone else is watching who can help
[03:20] <th0r> I believe it is possible, but don't know how
[03:20] <BenBurch> I know it used to be possible.  But xorg.conf is an empty file on Xubuntu, so the condiguration must be elsewhere
[03:22] <th0r> ubuntu changed to xorg in a recent release and things have changed. That is why I said...I am not the person to ask...too much OLD info in the attic here
[03:23] <th0r> BenBurch: you can get multiple desktops in xfce.
[03:24] <th0r> BenBurch: and I just discovered that if you set the pager to have TWO rows you can drag a window either to the right or down...never knew that before <smile>
[03:24] <Happy-Dude> th0r: this looking good? http://imgur.com/qxGGa.png
[03:25] <th0r> looks good. The only caveat is again...ext4 might give you a problem. I am using it and love it, but have heard some comments on #ubuntu about others having problems
[03:25] <BenBurch> Th0r yeah, I tried that, but the window is displayed in one or the other only.
[03:25] <th0r> I am running jaunty
[03:25] <th0r> BenBurch: yeah...I thought about that when I was answering you earlier
[03:25] <BenBurch> SO, you cannot look to the screen below you to see the rest of it
[03:26] <BenBurch> yep
[03:26] <Happy-Dude> th0r: I wouldn't think it'd be a major problem, not doing any major file operations on the PC -- it's just a hobby PC (my Windows PC is still my main)
[03:26] <th0r> then give it a go...good luck
[03:27] <th0r> and btw...I always suggest to new people if possible to run linux on a second computer...keep their important stuff on the other computer until they are comfortable with linux...so good move
[03:28] <BenBurch> Doing it in a VM is a good choice too
[03:29] <th0r> if you have a vm, yes. I have seven different OSs in my vm
[03:29] <th0r> but for the life of me I cannot get osx working!
[03:29] <Happy-Dude> th0r: though, would you think that ext4 would conflict with some of the classic ext3 optimizations? (like those in http://kmandla.wordpress.com/projects/set-up-ubuntu-for-speed/)
[03:29] <BenBurch> I have Parallels on my mac, and have everything on there.  Even Solaris X86
[03:30] <th0r> I have solaris...but not osx...would love to tinker with a mac...never had the money for one
[03:30] <BenBurch> These days I am a Solaris engineer.  Not by choice!
[03:30] <BenBurch> Th0r, you can install OSX on a PC.
[03:31] <BenBurch> http://www.osx86project.org/
[03:31] <th0r> Happy-Dude: those tweaks should stilll work. I do the preload and profile, and have taken a look with hdparm. I don't get too carried away though...those tweaks can prove deadly and I would rather not take the risk
[03:32] <Happy-Dude> cool -- that's good to know :) thanks
[03:32] <th0r> BenBurch: I am trying to get it into a vm...and from what I have read on the web I am not alone in my misery
[03:32] <Happy-Dude> everything check out? http://imgur.com/U2mLk.png
[03:33] <th0r> Happy-Dude: so long as you are sure there is nothing on the drive you want...next step will totally destroy existing data on the drive
[03:35] <Happy-Dude> all backed-up and ready to go (my morning activity [-_-] ... gahh that took a long time [~_~])
[03:35] <th0r> good luck
[03:35] <th0r> it may have taken a while...but look how much smarter you are <smile>
[03:36] <Happy-Dude> 1 last question: the files/ things I saved on the live cd session won't get ported or anything like that to the install, right?
[03:36] <th0r> shouldn't
[03:36] <Happy-Dude> cool
[03:36] <Happy-Dude> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP :D !!
[03:37] <th0r> np Good luck
[03:45] <caocheng> how can i merge the menu file in ~/.config/menu/applications-merged
[03:45] <th0r> caocheng: what release of xubuntu?
[03:46] <caocheng> jaunty
[03:46] <th0r> caocheng: I believe in jaunty all the menu items come from .desktop files in either /usr/share/applications or ~/.local/share/applications
[03:47] <th0r> caocheng: I am running xfce in jaunty and have no ~/.config/menu
[03:49] <caocheng> but i do have
[03:49] <caocheng> i installed wine
[03:49] <caocheng> and a windows progran
[03:49] <caocheng> and then it appears
[03:50] <caocheng> its a menufile
[03:50] <th0r> indeed. I have several programs installed under wine, but don't have that folder.
[03:50] <th0r> caocheng: I recognize the filename...I think it is a holdover from the old way of doing things in xfce
[03:51] <th0r> caocheng: there may be a way to merge the info, but I don't know it. I have had to add several things to the menu, and always had to create a .desktop file for each menu item
[03:55] <Happy-Dude_> th0r: darn, something failed while formatting (or something) for dev/sda3 -- the swap
[03:58] <Happy-Dude_> what is this error? The attempt to mount a file system with type swap in SCSI1 (0,0,0), partition #3 (sda) at none failed.  You may resume partitioning from the partitioning menu.
[03:58] <th0r> Happy-Dude_: the only thing I can think is ... swap is swap...I don't remember ever having to make it primary or logical...it is a separate section of the drive without a mount point
[04:00] <th0r> swap isn't mounted....my mount command doesn't show it at all
[04:00] <th0r> so the reason that failed is, as it indicates, it is trying to mount swap...and shouldn't
[04:01] <Happy-Dude_> hm [~_~]
[04:01] <th0r> here is my mount info.....http://pastebin.com/f11de6b71
[04:02] <Happy-Dude_> is there a terminal command to check my mounts
[04:02] <Happy-Dude_> and to unmount all (unecessary) devices?
[04:02] <th0r> mount
[04:02] <th0r> and sudo umount /dev/??? to unmount
[04:03] <th0r> Happy-Dude_: the install aborted right? I would start over and pay particular attention to the file system and mount point for swap this time
[04:03] <Happy-Dude_> what's the mount point?
[04:03] <Happy-Dude_> yeah, install aborted, clicked continue, and returned to the partition screen
[04:04] <Happy-Dude_> here is my mount data (live cd session) http://pastebin.com/m28e053ae
[04:04] <th0r> right....that is where you want to be...redo the partitioning
[04:04] <th0r> at least the swap portion
[04:04] <th0r> paste the screen again for the partitioning...the one where you define a partition
[04:05] <Happy-Dude_> alright, gimme a moment (while I delete all and do it again)
[04:06] <Happy-Dude_> here we go (i set it to the end and made it a logical this time)
[04:07] <Happy-Dude_> getting link right now ...
[04:07] <Happy-Dude_> http://imgur.com/3IvoF.png
[04:07] <Happy-Dude_> is this what you asked for?
[04:08] <Happy-Dude_> th0r: I'll wait for a response before I continue with the install
[04:08] <th0r> yeah....looks like the only thing that could have gone wrong is the logical/primary checkbox...so give it a go
[04:09] <Happy-Dude_> alright, let's check this out :D
[04:11] <Happy-Dude_> th0r: LOOKS LIKE A SUCCESS :D
[04:11] <th0r> learn something new every day <smile>
[04:12] <Happy-Dude_> (no error messages, that's good)
[04:12] <th0r> nah...without error messages how will we know what is going wrong?
[04:13] <th0r> get used to the idea....linux is already failing...you just haven't gotten the error message yet
[04:13] <Happy-Dude_> (is that sarcasm :P ?)
[04:14] <th0r> there are two types of people in the world...optimists and realists
[04:15] <Happy-Dude_> well, then everything could be argued that its failing [>.>]
[04:15] <Happy-Dude_> (or am I missing the point?)
[04:15] <th0r> of course. I live on a sailboat...cruising is defined as fixing your boat in exotic places.
[04:15] <th0r> and the secret to successful cruising is to always carry an extra boat
[04:16] <Happy-Dude_> similar to how I like to own multiple PCs of different platforms?
[04:16] <th0r> yeah. I call them habits....HAlf Baked Implementations of Technology
[04:16] <Happy-Dude_> (oh, and I now understand why IRC support is important: http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic/4016/how-do-i-install-with-ext4/ -- no replys from this entire ordeal -- though one reason might be because I already found help here ^^)
[04:17] <Happy-Dude_> lol good one ;)
[04:17] <th0r> cell phones, computers, digital tv...all habits
[04:20] <Happy-Dude_> thats actually pretty good ... i'll use that :)
[04:20] <th0r> careful....being honest can get you in trouble
[04:22] <Happy-Dude_> lol looks like there'll never be any escaping that (realism)
[04:22] <th0r> hehehe....yeah...but too much gets identified as 'not a team player'
[04:23] <th0r> how is the install going? should be installing the OS now, right?
[04:23] <Happy-Dude_> 94% right now, configuring hardware
[04:23] <th0r> is this an xubuntu install?
[04:24] <Happy-Dude_> nope, crunchbang linux: www.crunchbanglinux.org
[04:25] <Happy-Dude_> (xubuntu got a bit bloated + slow for my tastes -- though the IRC is still amazing since it contains the knowledge of Ubuntu, but with less rowdy people ^^)
[04:25] <Happy-Dude_> (have you tried it before?)
[04:25] <th0r> I have heard that xfce is actually faster than openbox, so if you get adventurous install xubuntu-desktop and try xfce...thunar is, I think, the best file manager on the planet
[04:26] <Happy-Dude_> i like thunar too
[04:26] <th0r> I agree about the rowdy people. That is why I am here and not #ubuntu
[04:27] <Happy-Dude_> thou, i just find xubuntu's implementation of xfce 'slower' than what I'd expect -- (there was a tuxradar article of where debian+xfce performed faster than xubuntu)
[04:27] <th0r> may have to try openbox...never used it
[04:27] <Happy-Dude_> similar to fluxbox
[04:27] <th0r> yeah....ubuntu has done a few things i am not in total agreement with
[04:27] <th0r> never used fluxbox either <smile>
[04:27] <Happy-Dude_> works wonders on old hardware (256MB ram live cd sessions are very good)
[04:28] <Happy-Dude_> thou, certainly, if you have more than a gig of ram, its being wasted if you go too minimal
[04:28] <th0r> well, I am an old systems analyst...anal about performance
[04:28] <Happy-Dude_> lol, sounds good ;)
[04:28] <th0r> like I mentioned...I have gkrellm on the desktop and maintain a continuous watch on system parameters
[04:29] <Happy-Dude_> as always, just burn a live cd and give it a go :) -- but be weary -- there is no desktop and the menu is a bit weird
[04:29] <Happy-Dude_> (took some trial months before I finally decided to move) - learned to configure things on the system a lot prior to the jump
[04:29] <th0r> well, I will be leaving the marina in a couple of weeks and won't have internet on a regular basis until next summer...so doubt I will try it any time soon.
[04:30] <Happy-Dude_> also, try out linux mint 6 fluxbox Community Edition -- i found it also performs as nicely
[04:30] <Happy-Dude_> aw, shame
[04:30] <th0r> I have heard a lot about mint...and have to admit the website sure makes it look appealing
[04:31] <Happy-Dude_> just note: desktop managers (gnome, xfce) are vastly different [and fully featured] than windows managers (fluxbox, openbox)
[04:31] <th0r> oh yeah. I have been tinkering with linux since slackware 1.0....am quite familiar with minimal desktops and wm's <smile>
[04:32] <Happy-Dude_> I was actually able to configure my desktop on liveCDs to this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33129560@N08/3750756163/sizes/o/
[04:33] <Happy-Dude_> just be sure to check #! out when you got the chance, its amazing ^^
[04:33] <Happy-Dude_> and my install is done right now -- shall we continue to chat or should I proceed to reboot ;) ?
[04:34] <th0r> well, even now I have not seen anything that looks as good as the old enlightenment 16...too bad they moved on
[04:34] <th0r> go ahead....I need to shut down and get some sleep anyway...good luck
[04:35] <Happy-Dude_> thanks a lot th0r hope to see you around :)
[18:01] <oly562> i can't ping a wireless printer server. it's ip is 192...104/24 and my ip is .90. simple network, used to work, but after loading 9.04 i can not ping it anymore from this wireless nic. my gw is standard, .1/24 and my nic is intel running wicd. UFW is off, and all other computers wired can ping that device and access it. there are no restrictions on the print server yet. Any suggestions?
[18:20] <proq> where are the apt packages stored after xubuntu installs them?
[18:21] <Darth_Tux> proq, i would guess somewhere in /etc/apt/
[18:22] <proq> oh, looks like /var/cache/apt/archives/
[18:23] <Darth_Tux> or there :p
[18:23] <oly562> i can't ping a wireless printer server. it's ip is 192...104/24 and my ip is .90. simple network, used to work, but after loading 9.04 i can not ping it anymore from this wireless nic. my gw is standard, .1/24 and my nic is intel running wicd. UFW is off, and all other computers wired can ping that device and access it. there are no restrictions on the print server yet. I switched from 8.04 LTS to 9.0 and i just noticed this happening
[19:44] <cemunal> hi
[19:44] <Darth_Tux> hello
[19:46] <cemunal> i can't install midori from ppa
[19:46] <cemunal> can somebody help me?
[19:47] <cemunal> i added webkit_team and midori ppa but it says me:
[19:48] <cemunal> midori: Depends: libsoup2.4-1 (>= 2.27.2) but 2.26.0-0ubuntu3 will not install
[19:48] <cemunal> *will install
[19:49] <cemunal> Depends: libwebkit-1.0-2 (>= 1.1.6) but will not install
[20:13]  * cemunal away
[21:59]  * cemunal back
[22:03] <cemunal> (21:46:44) cemunal: i can't install midori from ppa
[22:03] <cemunal> (21:46:50) cemunal: can somebody help me?
[22:03] <cemunal> (21:47:32) cemunal: i added webkit_team and midori ppa but it says me:
[22:03] <cemunal> (21:48:29) cemunal: midori: Depends: libsoup2.4-1 (>= 2.27.2) but 2.26.0-0ubuntu3 will not install
[22:03] <cemunal> (21:48:43) cemunal: *will install
[22:03] <cemunal> (21:49:04) cemunal: Depends: libwebkit-1.0-2 (>= 1.1.6) but will not install
[23:12] <GavinMcG> I've got Xubuntu on a headless server, and I'm logged into it over SSH with X forwarding enabled. I'm using Xming and PuTTY on a Windows machine. When I log in, I'm told ~/.Xauthority is not writable, and when I try to run an X application, I'm get "PuTTY X11 proxy: wrong authentication protocol attempted" and "Error: Can't open display"
[23:12] <GavinMcG> Could anyone suggest what I need to change?
[23:31] <moonside> hi
[23:31] <moonside> can anyone help me with a problem?
[23:36] <cody-somerville> moonside, not if you don't tell us what your problem is :-)
[23:36] <moonside> ok
[23:36] <moonside> Im trying to install flashplayer 10 on xubuntu, the guide I am using says to enter the following command
[23:37] <moonside> cp /home/moonside/desktop/libflashplayer.so .
[23:37] <moonside> but when I do that
[23:37] <moonside> I get permission denied
[23:37] <cody-somerville> Where is this guide?
[23:38] <moonside> randomconsultant.blogspot.com/2009/08/installing-flash-for-firefox-in-xubuntu.html
[23:39] <moonside> im very green to linux
[23:39] <moonside> ;s
[23:39] <cody-somerville> moonside, just download it from http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
[23:39] <cody-somerville> Select .deb for Ubuntu 8.04+
[23:39] <cody-somerville> moonside, Be sure to uninstall flashplugin-nonfree first
[23:40] <moonside> ok
[23:40]  * cody-somerville goes and gets some dinner.
[23:44] <moonside> when I try to open the package
[23:44] <moonside> I get
[23:45] <moonside> error dependency is not satisfiable
[23:45] <moonside> libnspr4-dev
[23:59] <moonside> OUAHAHA
[23:59] <moonside> I made it work
[23:59] <moonside> in that guide the guy typed "sudu su" but it was supposed to be "sudo su"


[00:12] <mamarley> Yeah, the patches don't seem to make any noticeable difference in stuttering, output lag, or framerate compared to 5.18 beta without the patches. :/
[00:50] <mamarley> (with Intel swap events on, in both cases)
 The 5.18 beta is now hitting the 20.04 archive release pocket!
 I will try to get an ISO respun when things settlem and look at doing some announce on it.
 HJey Folks, I've been working on leveraging our existing advantages. We would very much like to get published on Slashdot soon.  Please upvote this story, and share everywhere  so we can get front page coverage :) … https://slashdot.org/submission/11032320/kubuntu-focus-laptop-now-available-to-order
 https://kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5-18-lts-beta-5-17-90-available-for-testing/
[12:38] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
 https://twitter.com/kubuntu/status/1218153853939601410


[00:09] <mwhudson> vorlon: thanks for looking at the ubuntu-cdimage stuff
[00:10] <mwhudson> vorlon: when you say "We'll have to subject this to testing to figure out in the end if it's correct." do you mean before landing?
[00:53] <vorlon> mwhudson: I mean that landing it and making images that get community testing is the only way to figure out if e.g. we've fixed LP: #1886148
[00:53] <mwhudson> vorlon: yeah ok
[00:53] <mwhudson> makes sense to me
[00:59] <vorlon> lol I guess I should update my debian-cd bzr checkout to stop pushing to nusakan
[01:10] <mwhudson> vorlon: bonus points for merging on my friday
[01:20] <vorlon> hah
[07:42] <slyon> I have some problems with autopkgtests, using the "needs-reboot" restriction and triggering a reboot during a (new) test via "/tmp/autopkgtest-reboot", introduced in "netplan.io 0.100-0ubuntu2".
[07:42] <slyon> On ppc64el the test seems to be spinning in a loop (started over and over again) since 2 days. While for amd64 and arm64 the test fails with a broken SSH connection to nova "<VirtSubproc>: failure: Timed out on waiting for ssh connection".
[07:43] <slyon> I think somebody must manually cancel the ppc64el infinite loop... Also I'm wondering if there are other tests using the "needs-reboot" restriction, which I could compare my new test to (which is working just fine in my local qemu setup)?
[08:17] <cpaelzer> slyon: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/d/dbus/groovy/amd64 is an example
[08:18] <cpaelzer> or any of https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=Restrictions.*needs-reboot&literal=0
[08:19] <cpaelzer> the ppc test is only running since 2h 27m 49s
[08:19] <cpaelzer> only submit date is from 2020-09-09 15:12:50
[08:24] <slyon> cpaelzer: thanks I'll look at those and compare what they're doing differently.
[08:25] <slyon> The ppc test was uploaded 2020-09-09 and I'm observing it since then. I think it always runs for a couple of ours, until the last (reboot) test appears. Then it (probably) reboots, resets the time and starts over. I've seen it executing the same tests over and over again since the last 2 days
[08:25] <slyon> *couple of hours
[08:30] <aleb> Until when can we make a new Pitivi release https://packages.ubuntu.com/groovy/video/pitivi so it's included in Groovy?
[08:33] <cpaelzer> aleb: as-is until some weeks ago :-/
[08:33] <cpaelzer> aleb: you'll need https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[08:33] <cpaelzer> aleb: release schedule is here https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/groovy-gorilla-release-schedule/15531
[08:34] <aleb> I saw the release schedule. Ok, I'll file a bug in launchpad after we release. Thanks!
[08:35] <cpaelzer> while that is the right way - to be clear the remaining schedule is tight, no promises that everything is ready and accepted
[08:36] <cpaelzer> aleb: if I might ask, will that be a 1.0 then?
[08:36] <cpaelzer> as it is 0.99 into 0.999 so far?
[08:45] <aleb> The "1.0" turned into focusing that the GES backend is stable, and the app is as stable as possible. We do have lots of tests also for the app (UI). The decision of not including new features just to keep the app stable was not good for the health of the project though.  We'll include lots of features introduced in GSoC projects the past years. The next releas
[08:45] <aleb> will be "20.09" etc, we'll never release "1.0".
[10:27] <cpaelzer> doko: I was seeing a few more armhf gcc-10 segfaults like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/497142982/buildlog_ubuntu-groovy-armhf.dpdk_20.08-1ubuntu1~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[10:27] <cpaelzer> doko: is there anything already in the queue that could adress this?
[10:30] <cpaelzer> I added it to 1890435 but I can't reliably recreate it yet
[10:30] <cpaelzer> so not much new isight
[10:30] <cpaelzer> insight
[12:44] <jibel> bdmurray, hi, there is a string fix needed for https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/390185 then I'll merge it as soon as you pushed the change.
[13:31] <coreycb> icey: about python3-dnspython 2.0.0 breaking python3-eventlet in groovy
[13:32] <coreycb> I think this summarizes most of the known issues? https://github.com/eventlet/eventlet/issues/619
[13:33] <icey> coreycb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/designate/+bug/1895285 is a different dnspython2 issue
[13:33] <icey> but yes, with regards to eventlet, that's a good bug
[13:36] <coreycb> upstream openstack tried to move to 2.0.0 but had to move back to 1.16.0 due to all the issues with eventlet + dnspython 2.0.0 - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/741986/
[13:36] <coreycb> icey: ^
[13:40] <coreycb> icey: upstream is actively working on a fix but at this point in groovy I don't see this getting resolved, and openstack heavily uses eventlet unfortunately
[13:41] <icey> indeed
[14:07] <slyon> cpaelzer: I think I found the root cause for the SSH timeout issue in my autopkgtest: The management network interface seems to be down after playing with netplan during the test. I set up a local qemu autopkgtest VM, which is accessed via the autopkgtest-virt-ssh runner and was able to "reporduce" the problem. (Well... its not actually on nova/openstack).
[14:08] <slyon> cpaelzer: I came up with this debdiff, which fixes the problem in my local "fake ssh runner": https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/46VrKmfH6Z/
[14:08] <slyon> is there any way how to test that in the real nova/openstack environment, without uploading it to the archive?
[14:11] <bdmurray> jibel: updated, thanks
[14:21] <ahasenack> hi, is there an easy way to inject a ppa into debootstrap, so it considers the packages from the ppa in addition to the ones from the archive?
[14:21] <ahasenack> I guess via the script argument?
[14:23] <ahasenack> or hacking /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/groovy (in the groovy case) directly?
[14:35] <ahasenack> I need to test the first-time installation of base-files
[14:36] <ahasenack> without uploading it to groovy first
[17:57] <sem2peie> good evening, is a developer present who deals with linux-image-generic-hwe-20.04 / ath10k and WLAN cards?
[18:07] <sem2peie> I have created a ticket, maybe someone can take a look https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1895333


[15:04] <alecu> hello!
[15:07] <didrocks> hey alecu
[15:07] <didrocks> alecu: the session has been moved apparently
[15:07] <alecu> ah, I'm in the wrong irc channel
[15:07] <alecu> didrocks: thanks
[15:08] <didrocks> :)


[09:54] <lordievader> Good morning.
[12:02] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[23:35] <Alkalino> Hello there, I'm having problems installing ubuntu 15.04, it says : could not write bytes broken pipe while choosing try ubuntu or install ubuntu
[23:35] <Alkalino> anyone would please help me? sorry for my english.
[23:36] <penguin42> Alkalino: 15.04 is the current release, so that's in #ubuntu
[23:36] <penguin42> Alkalino: But could not write bytes sounds like the disk isn't large enough/is full
[23:36] <penguin42> or broken
[23:39] <Alkalino> well i was on #ubuntu and the say : Alkalino: wily werewolf is the codename for Ubuntu 15.10 - Support only in #ubuntu+1
[23:40] <k1l_> that was a mistake by that user. he already said you can ask in äubuntu
[23:40] <penguin42> you said you were having problems with 15.04
[23:40] <Alkalino> and then  i say :well I said 15.04, is that still okay, sorry I'm new
[23:40] <k1l_> *#ubuntu
[23:40] <Alkalino> and they say yes
[23:41] <Alkalino> sorry i'm confused #ubuntu say go to #ubuntu+1 and #ubuntu+1 say go to #ubuntu
[23:42] <penguin42> Alkalino: If you're doing 15.04 it's in #ubuntu, if you're doing 15.10 it's in here
[23:42] <k1l_> that was a mistake. that user thought 15.04 was still the alpha version. but it is not. so just ask in #ubuntu
[23:43] <Alkalino> sorry :)
[23:43] <Alkalino> again
[23:43]  * penguin42 has sympathy, sometimes I don't know what month it is
[23:44] <ObrienDave> month? we have months? ;P
[23:45] <penguin42> ObrienDave: Yes, there's January at the start of the year when you still write the previous year number, and December at the end of the year when you're winding down, and there's a few others in between
[23:45] <ObrienDave> dang, i knew i was missing something ;P
[23:47] <penguin42> ObrienDave: actually a fun read is copernicus's writings where he converts between different calenders


[02:09] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/spec-names-are-not-unique-vocab/+merge/190849
[02:10] <wgrant> StevenK: Could be a while
[02:10] <wgrant> but yay
[02:13] <mwhudson> yay vocabularies
[04:28] <jelmer> yay zope
[08:32] <wa5qjh> Hey yall, can somebody tell me if that section between the USB connector and the Launchpad user section is anything besides  a USB to serial adapter,  or is it a sort of jtag or similar?
[08:34] <cjwatson> You're still in the wrong channel, sorry :-)
[08:52] <wa5qjh> weird!! was on a TI launchpad site and it referred me here ( I thought)
[08:53] <wa5qjh> what command do you use on irc to exit just one channel ?
[08:55] <cjwatson> I am REALLY not awake
[08:55] <cjwatson> /part
[08:55] <wgrant> Heh
[08:56] <wa5qjh> Ah.  thanks!! odd word for that function :)  Tried bye and exit.  not what I wanted :)
[08:57] <wa5qjh>  Thanks guys. you dont have any knowledge of an IRC channel for  the Texas Instruments Launchpad Development tool do you?
[09:00] <cjwatson> Afraid not, never heard of it before you asked last night
[09:01] <wa5qjh> OH, ok, well it was worth asking. what is  this channela ll about then ?
[09:02] <cjwatson> The only one I find from Google is #43oh
[09:02] <cjwatson> Dunno if that's close enough
[09:02] <cjwatson> Development of https://launchpad.net/ which is a platform for collaborative free software development
[09:02] <cjwatson> And the main infrastructure for the Ubuntu OS among others
[09:05] <wa5qjh> Yeah, been there. still got it bookmarked, and one of a couple dozen windowes I have up in my browser at the moment.
[09:05] <lifeless> wa5qjh: yeah, TI folk turn up here from time to time, univerally confused ;)
[09:05] <lifeless> wa5qjh: it was very odd when TI released a product with the same name :)
[09:06] <wa5qjh> Heh,  not too surprised,  That's why  I went ahead and asked if youd become aware of the right name of the ir irc if they have one.
[09:06] <wa5qjh> so what are yall,  then ?
[09:07] <lifeless> sorry no
[09:07] <lifeless> wa5qjh: as cjwatson said : Development of https://launchpad.net/ which is a platform for collaborative free
[09:07] <lifeless>                   software development
[09:07] <lifeless> wa5qjh: And the main infrastructure for the Ubuntu OS among others
[09:08] <wa5qjh> interesting!!  cause the other thing I've been looking for as a 1K "Tiny Forth"  nobody these days has a clue what that is.
[09:09] <wa5qjh>  you ever heard of it ?
[09:09] <lifeless> Forth ? yes.
[09:11] <wa5qjh> I been playing with it since some time in Mid 80's but never really got proficient with it.
[09:12] <wa5qjh>  But I'm basically bass-ackards anyhow so maybe that's why it facinates me so much.
[09:15] <wa5qjh>  I tried  to install eclipse into my Ubuntu 11.04  but they didnt seem to want to supo my old unsupported 11.04rt in any way,  even with archives,
[09:15] <wa5qjh> my od unsupported 11.04
[09:16] <StevenK> Archives for 11.04 are around, but you should really really upgrade.
[09:28] <wa5qjh> I wanted to when I managed to crash 11.04 last year. but when I tried to put 12.04 in,  it did not want to go in at all. and I would up having to p=map out about4GB of a 100MB partition just so I could get 11.04 back in.  that's an oversimplification of everything  but a digest of it.
[09:29] <wa5qjh> I've also tried Kubuntu 11.10 as well. had it running till a blackout here finally took its toll.
[09:30] <wa5qjh> one blackout too many.