[12:02] <zul> heylo
[12:06] <LaserJock> hi zul
[04:10] (crimsun/#ubuntu-motu) bddebian: do you mind uploading http://sh.nu/~crimsun/uploads/* if you get a chance, please?
[04:18] <bddebian> alsa-tools isn't main?
[04:18] <crimsun> no, it's very much universe.
[04:18] <bddebian> OK, give me a sec
[04:20] <bddebian> Hmm, can I just dput your .changes file or is it going to expect my key?
[04:20] <crimsun> you can, but hold a sec, please
[04:22] <ajmitch> bddebian: it's best to re-sign them with debsign
[04:23] <ajmitch> well it's best to always review, build & check what you're uploading, too ;)
[04:23] <ajmitch> though I think we can probably trust crimsun by now
[04:24] <bddebian> I would trust crimsun over myself d00d :-)
[04:34] <crimsun> I love how I keep triggering these corner cases in qprocd
[04:36] <bddebian> :-)
[04:37] <bddebian> You're special :-)
[04:37] <zakame> hi all
[04:37] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[04:37] <zakame> hi bddebian ! :D
[04:38] <crimsun> yeah, for values of 'special' that mean "ARGH"
[04:39] <bddebian> :-)
[04:39] <ajmitch> yay, spethial
[04:40] <bddebian> No, that's me :-)
[04:41] <ajmitch> heh
[09:10] <Hobbsee> hi everyone
[09:42] <dholbach> good morning motu world
[09:43] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach
[09:43] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[09:44] <Hobbsee> dholbach: you busy at all?
[09:44] <dholbach> Hobbsee: yes - dapper status update meeting in 15
[09:44] <Hobbsee> dholbach: gotcha. i'm looking for someone to do some uploading for me again :)
[09:44] <dholbach> Hobbsee: you got a question?
[09:45] <dholbach> pass me the links to stuff I'll do it later, if nobody else did it
[09:45] <Hobbsee> okay...i might poke zakame about it :)
[09:45] <crimsun> I'd upload them, but apparently uploads are broken for me yet _again_
[09:45] <Hobbsee> :(
[09:46] <Hobbsee> hehe welcome back dholbach
[10:13] <imbrandon> wb dholbach ;)
[10:14] <imbrandon> heya crimsun
[10:14] <dholbach> hey crimsun, hey imbrandon
[10:14] <dholbach> Hobbsee: If you could PM the links to me?
[10:14] <Hobbsee> dholbach: they're sitting on my hard drive.  i can email them to you if you like..
[10:14] <dholbach> Hobbsee: ok, sounds cool.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> otherwise i'll find someone else to upload, if you're a bit busy...
[10:15] <Hobbsee><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:17] <dholbach> yes
[10:18] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[10:18] <Hobbsee> dholbach: let me format my hard drive first, and reinstall.  then i'll email them.  IIRC, there are about 10 - i try to send them to people in reasonable blocks
[10:19] <dholbach> hu?! why reinstall?
[10:19] <dholbach> you seem to be reinstalling a lot, no?
[10:19] <Hobbsee> no...i havent reinstalled since about january...
[10:20] <Hobbsee> got so much dev stuff on my machine, and i've discovered that i can build with a pbuider on my home dir...which means that i might not run out of space so quickly...
[10:20] <dholbach> ok
[10:21] <Hobbsee> pre-edgy stuff :P
[10:21] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i seem to have a slight problem with only a 40 gb hard drive...
[10:21] <Hobbsee> and >=2 OS' on it
[10:22] <dholbach> Hobbsee: ok, I see.
[10:22] <Hobbsee> :P
[10:23] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: buy an external USB2 drive?  They're not that expensive last time I checked.
[10:23] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: true...that does require me taking it wherever i happen to go though...
[10:23] <Mithrandir> or just chuck media , etc on it?
[10:24] <Hobbsee> machine's gotten so slow for some reason...
[10:24] <Hobbsee> true...could do that
[10:24] <Mithrandir> so you won't _have_ to, but you might want to
[10:24] <Hobbsee> true...
[10:25] <Hobbsee> dholbach: @ the meeting - and add your screenshot/blog to ubotu...
[10:25] <Hobbsee> in the upgrade link
[10:26] <dholbach> ubotu? #ubuntu bot?
[10:26] <dholbach> I'll talk to Seveas about that
[10:26] <Hobbsee> dholbach: anyone can add to the bot...
[10:26] <Hobbsee> but yes, Ubotu
[10:26] <ogra> Hobbsee, dont say that to loud ;)
[10:27] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:27] <imbrandon> hehe
[10:27] <Hobbsee> ogra: i know :P i dont :P
[10:27] <ogra> :)
[10:27] <Hobbsee> ogra: then again, most wonderful people who add rubbish to the bot dont read -motu
[10:27] <ogra> heh, true
[10:27] <Hobbsee> stupid question - how many flights are we having?
[10:27] <imbrandon> heh 26
[10:28] <imbrandon> maybe 27
[10:28] <imbrandon> ;) j/k
[10:28] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:28] <imbrandon> probbly only one more considering its less than a month to release
[10:28] <imbrandon> thats just a guess though
[10:28] <Hobbsee> they're talking about a flight 8 in the meeting, hence the question
[10:29] <imbrandon> ahh
[10:29] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: /j ubuntu-meeting
[10:29] <Hobbsee> just dont talk :P
[10:29] <Hobbsee> they're very busy
[10:29] <imbrandon> yea i'll behave promis ;)
[10:29] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: also, kubuntu meeting in just over 12 hours, if you're interested
[10:29] <imbrandon> yea i'd be more interested in kubuntu
[10:30] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: that one that's there now is a status update meeting - of interest is riddell's stuff for kde...and the other stuff can be useful too...
[10:30] <imbrandon> yea *qt4* w00t
[10:30] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:31] <Hobbsee> man it takes a while to bz2-ify the entire home dir...
[10:32] <imbrandon> lol yea
[10:32] <imbrandon> i just cp it to a nfs share , i dont worry about taring it up
[10:33] <imbrandon> thats just me though
[10:33] <imbrandon> i should setup a rsync backup or something for a regular backup
[10:33] <imbrandon> just been lazy the last week or so
[10:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:34] <Hobbsee> i dont usually backup
[10:34] <Hobbsee> unless i intend to reformat
[10:43] <Hobbsee> grrr...wish i had a remote way to turn on a computer...
[10:47] <siretart> morning motus!
[10:47] <imbrandon> they make telnet-able power switches but that dosent help you now
[10:47] <siretart> qt4?
[10:47] <imbrandon> morning siretart
[10:47] <siretart> heyho imbrandon
[10:48] <imbrandon> yea just waiting on something from upstream to fix a few ( ok alot ) of qt4 bugs riddell said
[10:48] <imbrandon> last night
[10:49] <imbrandon> i think a sync for 4.1.2 ?? dont quote me
[10:51] <siretart> imbrandon: look in malone, Riddell already requested a sync from unstable
[10:51] <Riddell> I don't know how often those sync happen
[10:52] <siretart> Riddell: I think it has to do with poking the ubuntu-archive team members. there about 40 open syncs the last time I looked there
[10:53] <siretart> chninkel: around?
[10:54] <siretart> chninkel: since your last package, this is the debdiff
[10:54] <siretart> chninkel: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=2320&upid2=2326
[10:55] <siretart> chninkel: what are these *.cmd files? They look like cruft to me
[10:57] <zakame> hi all
[10:57] <zakame> hi siretart
[11:01] <persia> siretart: Is there a reason OpenAL defaults to OSS?  Alternatives have been posted to a bug: it seems worthwhile to migrate to SDL or ALSA.
[11:05] <siretart> persia: as I understand it, upstream is quite overworked
[11:06] <siretart> persia: there are in fact 3 openal implementations: the creative (windows centric) one, the apple (macos centric) one, and the loki rooted one, sometimes called 'portable'
[11:06] <siretart> persia: portable was recently (like in, last week) renamed to OpenAL-Sample
[11:06] <persia> siretart: Upstream supports it: it's a configuration adjustment.  I'll upload a patch to bug #5362 to implement Vytas' suggestion for your review.
[11:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5362 in torcs "Torcs crashed (because it has no sound?)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5362
[11:07] <siretart> persia: since Loki is dead, there are only 2 or 3 ppl working on the portable tree
[11:07] <siretart> persia: sven already said that he is willing to change the default on linux to alsa and keep oss for the bsd variants
[11:07] <siretart> persia: until then, we can perhaps install a config file in /etc to use alsa
[11:07] <siretart> but I havn't looked into this yet
[11:08] <persia> siretart: OK.  I'll assign to you once I put up a patch?
[11:08] <siretart> persia: yes please. this way it shows up on my list
[11:08] <persia> siretart: Thank you.
[11:12] <imbrandon> dholbach, i use kpilot ( but can test gnome stuff if needed  )
[11:12] <dholbach> imbrandon: I'll try to get gnome-pilot new tarball rolled into a package to see how that works for us
[11:12] <ajmitch> evening
[11:13] <imbrandon> kk dholbach i got all the hardware so if you need a guinie pig ;)
[11:13] <dholbach> Thanks a lot!
[11:21] <ajmitch> ah, missed the status meeting
[11:21] <ajmitch> a shame
[11:21] <Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
[11:21] <ajmitch> hi Mithrandir
[11:21] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[11:25] <Mithrandir> fine, setting up a test environment for casper since I get to play with that today.
[11:26] <ajmitch> ah, good to see some things coming through NEW
[11:39] <persia> If I put a file in /etc, and I don't want people to edit it unless they know what they are doing, I should mark it a conffile, right?
[12:54] <siretart> right
[01:29] <TomaszD> hello, how can I make a "diffstat" ?
[01:37] <TomaszD> nevermind, I've cracked it myself
[01:37] <TomaszD> you do this on purpose don't you. Wait it out until someone figures it out for himself.
[01:37] <TomaszD> :)
[01:39] <freeflying> TomaszD:  diff -ruN oldsource newsource | diffstat > outputfile
[01:40] <TomaszD> freeflying, yeah I did it very similarly, documentation is quite good
[01:40] <TomaszD> thanks anyway, this makes it shorter
[01:58] <Hobbsee> why oh why does ndiswrapper hate me today????
[02:14] <Hobbsee> how odd.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> dholbach: sending now
[03:17] <dholbach> Hobbsee: super
[03:23] <Toadstool> hi MOTUs
[03:25] <Hobbsee> dholbach: you should have it :)
[03:29] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:29] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[03:29] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
[03:29] <Hobbsee> hey...that sound is in tune!  it's not flat!!!!
[03:29] <Hobbsee> yay!
[03:31] <`6og> hehe.
[03:31] <`6og> took you a while :D
[03:32] <Hobbsee> mostly.  how odd.
[03:55] <zakame> hi all
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[03:55] <zakame> hi bddebian
[03:56] <tuxmaniac> bddebian:
[03:56] <bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
[03:57] <tuxmaniac> Hi
[03:57] <tuxmaniac> Hey can apt-get update not work saying command not found? What could be the reason.. Sudo included.. One of my friends is facing this problem!
[03:57] <tuxmaniac> sudo
[03:58] <bddebian> Is apt installed? :-)
[03:58] <tuxmaniac> yes bddebian
[03:58] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: What's the exact error?
[03:58] <tuxmaniac> It seems Command not found :)
[03:59] <bddebian> For apt-get?
[03:59] <tuxmaniac> yes
[04:01] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: :)) That idiot copied line numbers from pastebin into sources.list file
[04:01] <tuxmaniac> bddebian: :)) Sorry for the stupid disturbance!
[04:02] <bddebian> :-)
[04:14] <trappist> what are the odds that a new package would be uploaded with the patch that triggered the upload not applied, *twice*?
[04:14] <trappist> debdiff sometimes only diffs the changelog for me - I wonder if it's a bug in the packaging tools
[04:14] <azeem> non-zero
[04:14] <trappist> bug #41207
[04:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41207 in libast "Eterm built against libast on amd64 has its buffer filled with garbage" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41207
[05:13] <Kyral> hey motuish people
[05:13] <bddebian> Heya Kyral
[05:13] <Kyral> Hello HURDFreak :P
[05:17] <bddebian> heh
[05:20] <nomed> hi all
[05:22] <nomed> Riddell, i've seen in SOC2006 wiki page ..
[05:22] <nomed> Kat Desktop Search Environment
[05:22] <nomed> would u be interested on having Recoll too ?
[05:23] <Riddell> I didn't add the Kat entry
[05:23] <Riddell> what's recoll?
[05:25] <nomed> Riddell, http://www.lesbonscomptes.com/recoll/devel.html
[05:25] <nomed> it is based on xapian ..
[05:25] <nomed> instead of mono stuff ..
[05:25] <nomed> xapian depends just on c++
[05:26] <nomed> and it may be of some interest even for
[05:26] <nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006#head-e2fba1deba799ae550e9afe765e57b7a5019f1f8
[05:27] <nomed> i'm asking this as i have xapian pkges on revu ..
[05:27] <nomed> but i hadn't time to fix them ..
[05:27] <nomed> xapian devel is now at #xubuntu ..
[05:27] <nomed> and he told me xapian will be in etch soon
[05:27] <nomed> i'd like to know if it's possible to get those pkge un dapper universe ..
[05:28] <nomed> so i'll spend some time on that this evening
[05:28] <nomed> i even think it would be nice to have them in ..
[05:28] <nomed> as soc2006 devel apps ..
[05:29] <nomed> so mainly the question are ..
[05:30] <nomed> am i going to throw my time on pkging  that stuff ?
[05:30] <nomed> should i pkge recoll too ?
[05:38] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[05:39] <bddebian> Hello MacSlow
[05:39] <MacSlow> I have an "issue" -> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=173760 and would like to provide help (my customly done .debs) for the mentioned packages... namely gtkglext-1.2.0, gtkglextmm-1.2.0 and glew-1.3.4
[05:42] <persia> MacSlow: Open UVF exception requests in Malone with your patches.  A description of the process can be found from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html.
[05:43] <MacSlow> persia, thx... looking into that now
[05:45] <MacSlow> persia, btw... uvf abbreviates what?
[05:46] <persia> MacSlow: Upstream Version Freeze.  For a period of time right before a release (like now), there is a freeze on new upstream versions, as it is typically easier to ensure fewer bugs by patching the existing version than by upgrading (and possibly introducing new bugs).  Search the Wiki for Release Process for more information.
[06:07] <Whoopie> Hi, although really OT, I hope you can help me: I'd like to listen to the HAL ButtonPressed events with a script and then launch another script. I don't find any docu or examples. Could you give me a hint?
[06:10] <ogra> man dbus-monitor ?
[06:42] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if people ever get banned from *lists.ubuntu.com
[06:44] <trappist> hopefully the admins reserve the right, but I haven't seen a lot of posts that just beg for a ban
[06:44] <trappist> LaserJock: could I talk you into taking a look at bug #41207
[06:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41207 in libast "Eterm built against libast on amd64 has its buffer filled with garbage" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41207
[06:44] <LaserJock> trappist: what about it
[06:45] <trappist> LaserJock: I wonder if it's related to my occasional problem where debdiff only diffs the changelog - here apparently only the changelog is getting patched
[06:45] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:46] <LaserJock> zul: around?
[06:47] <zul> LaserJock: kind of
[06:48] <LaserJock> zul: trappist says that the latest libast upload had a changed changelog and that was it
[06:48] <trappist> and the upload before it :)
[06:48] <zul> i didnt touch libast all i touched was eterm
[06:49] <trappist> yeah eterm doesn't need a patch, just built against a patched libast
[06:49] <zul> is there a patch send it to me and ill fix it otnight
[06:49] <trappist> zul: not for eterm, but the libast patch is attached to bug #41207
[06:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 41207 in libast "Eterm built against libast on amd64 has its buffer filled with garbage" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41207
[06:50] <zul> ok..
[06:50] <zul> ill do it tonight when i get home
[06:51] <LaserJock> zul: great, thanks dude
[06:51] <trappist> awesome, thanks
[06:52] <bddebian> hehe
[06:52] <trappist> if I knew how to make konsole transparent, borderless and decorationless I'd switch
[06:52] <LaserJock> trappist: in my Gentoo days I used eterm quite a bit
[06:52] <LaserJock> trappist: oh, that's not too hard
[06:53] <LaserJock> trappist: gnome-terminal would be much more difficult
[06:53] <bddebian> Heya highvoltage
[06:53] <highvoltage> hey mr dennis!
[06:54] <bddebian> Mr Dennis?
[06:54] <highvoltage> bddebian: sorry, mr Barry!
[06:54] <bddebian> heh :-)
[06:54] <LaserJock> Dennis, Barry, same thing ;-)
[06:54] <highvoltage> occasionally i think you're dennis kaarsemaker. have no idea why though :)
[06:54] <bddebian> Show's how much I'm loved ;-P
[06:55] <highvoltage> bddebian: i'm not a huggy person, you can check through the logs i never hug anyone.. but
[06:55] <bddebian> heh
[06:55] <ivoks> bddebian: remeber the time when you said no one likes you? :)
[06:55] <bddebian> ivoks: Just the main folks :)
[06:55] <LaserJock> highvoltage: you can also sign the fan page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
[06:55] <bddebian> Stop that
[06:56] <persia> Could anyone point me to a good reference on trapping thrown exceptions in C++?
[06:56] <ivoks> bddebian: main guys like no one :)
[06:56] <bddebian> :-)
[06:57] <highvoltage> LaserJock: i've signed the Bddebianisagod page AGES ago!
[06:57] <ivoks> there, i said it :)
[06:57] <LaserJock> highvoltage: doh, I see you now
[06:57] <highvoltage> hehe: last edited 2005-10-13 14:26:27 by JonathanCarter
[06:58] <ivoks> last edited 2006-05-11 18:57:20 by AnteKaramatic
[06:58] <ivoks> :)
[06:58] <highvoltage> :)
[06:58] <ivoks> now it's fresh :)
[06:58] <ivoks> time to go...
[06:58] <ivoks> see you guys
[06:58] <bddebian> WTF? :-)
[06:58] <bddebian> Later ivoks
[06:58] <highvoltage> cheers ivoks
[06:59] <LaserJock> last edited 05/11/2006 08:58:42 AM by JordanMantha
[06:59] <bddebian> Sick people
[07:00] <LaserJock> bddebian: we have to have a hero, that Mark dude is a slave driver ;-)
[07:00] <bddebian> hehe
[07:01] <LaserJock> I managed to snag a dedicated Ubuntu box at the lab yesterday
[07:02] <LaserJock> our postdoc who just left left a 1.3Ghz P4 with 256MB Rambus RAM and a 20GB hard drive :-)
[07:04] <LaserJock> the start of my pbuilder farm ;-)
[07:05] <bddebian> heh
[07:31] <siretart> hi folks
[07:32] <siretart> no back to my UVF backlog (its way too big :( )
[07:33] <dholbach> :-/
[07:33] <dholbach> yeah
[07:33] <bddebian> Heya siretart
[07:34] <bddebian> Yeah, you and dholbach get to work.. ;-P
[07:34] <dholbach> pffft
[07:34] <bddebian> :-)
[07:34] <bddebian> I just gave you a few more today :-)
[07:34] <bddebian> Hoary is no longer officially supported correct?
[07:35] <azeem> warty got EOL'd, but not hoary, AFAIK
[07:35] <persia> bddebian: I thought it was 18 months, so finishing this September.
[07:35] <bddebian> Ah, hmm
[07:36] <LaserJock> I really wonder what officially supported means
[07:36] <siretart> LaserJock: supported by canonical. and only packages in 'main'
[07:37] <LaserJock> siretart: but what does supported mean? Sorry for the newb question.
[07:38] <LaserJock> Does that mean they stop doing security and updates?
[07:39] <siretart> LaserJock: I think this includes stopping uploading anything to $dist-{security,updates,backports}
[07:40] <siretart> LaserJock: at some point, I think this will include also dropping the dist from the archive. but I don't know when excatly
[07:40] <LaserJock> hmm, ok.
[07:43] <LaserJock> dang, 39 bugs assigned to motu-uvf
[07:43] <dholbach> LaserJock: and 1348 mails in my uvf box
[07:44] <dholbach> just so you guys know, how much siretart and slomo do for you guys :-)
[07:44] <LaserJock> dholbach: oh my goodness
[07:44] <LaserJock> you guys rock for sure
[07:44] <LaserJock> dholbach: do you think it has been helpful to do it this way via LP?
[07:45] <dantje> hi there
[07:45] <dholbach> LaserJock: yes
[07:45] <dholbach> LaserJock: we finally have an overview
[07:45] <LaserJock> great, from my end it has been great
[07:46] <LaserJock> hi dantje
[07:48] <bddebian> dholbach: pfft, pittence
[07:48] <Tonio_> hello
[07:48] <dholbach> hey Tonio_!
[07:48] <Tonio_> hey dholbach ;) we didn't have a lot of time to speak during linuxtag.... :)
[07:48] <Tonio_> dholbach: will you be in paris in june ?
[07:48] <dholbach> yeah - next time :-)
[07:48] <dholbach> Tonio_: sure will! :)
[07:49] <Tonio_> dholbach: then it'll be easier ;)
[07:49] <dholbach> super :)
[07:49] <dholbach> I look forward to it
[07:49] <Tonio_> hehe, me too
[07:49] <Tonio_> it'll be my latest month in paris
[07:52] <LaserJock> bddebian: maybe we should rename your wiki page to MotuUvfIsGod ;-)
[07:53] <LaserJock> no whinning in here, only fixing :-)
[07:53] <bddebian> LaserJock: Good plan :-)
[07:53] <dantje> I'd like to do some small bug fixing and coding for ubuntu (or open source projects in general) -- where do I start?
[07:54] <bipolar> LaserJock: bddebian :D
[07:54] <siretart> some requests really eat up enormous time to process
[07:54] <Spec> dantje: a goo dplace to start is in #ubuntu-bugs
[07:54] <LaserJock> dantje: well, this channel is great for learning how to package and get stuff into Universe
[07:54] <siretart> I wonder if we should think about restricting these requests to devs only.. :/
[07:54] <bipolar> do we have "permission" to upgrade qt4 in dapper?
[07:55] <Spec> dantje: there's also lots of bug-related information is available on the wiki
[07:55] <siretart> bipolar: look in malone, there is a bug about that with current status
[07:58] <bipolar> siretart: the ones I found have no data about upgrades, just asking for it.
[07:58] <bipolar> ahh.. there is a new
[07:58] <bipolar>  one
[07:58] <siretart> bipolar: Riddell already requested a sync. we are waiting for the archive team
[07:59] <bipolar> thanks guys :)
[07:59] <LaserJock> siretart: I can imagine that the UVFe requests take a long time, but I think Dapper will be greater for it. Thanks for the work!
[08:00] <siretart> LaserJock: :)
[08:00] <bipolar> yeah... quite a few bugs in 4.1.0
[08:01] <siretart> and it makes the lastfm package work!
[08:01] <siretart> :)
[08:01] <bipolar> heh
[08:02] <siretart> thats bug #43693, btw
[08:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43693 in qt4-x11 "UVF exception for qt 4.1.2" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43693
[08:03] <zul> wouldnt that affect kubuntu?
[08:03] <bipolar> now if only the mysql server package supported ssl.... :P
[08:03] <bipolar> zul: no. kde is built on qt3, not qt4
[08:04] <bipolar> zul: when KDE 4 comes, it will use qt4. it's going to rock too
[08:04] <LaserJock> bipolar: is there any idea of a release date for KDE 4?
[08:04] <bipolar> LaserJock: let me see....
[08:05] <LaserJock> lol, ubugtu just /msged me to tell me that there is not Bug no. 4 in KDE :-)
[08:05] <bipolar> me too
[08:05] <bddebian> It would be damn nice if we have a Universe dedicated archive admin
[08:06] <siretart> bddebian: no. that would be only extra work, which we should put in the universe itself
[08:07] <bipolar> wikipedia says early 2007 for release of kde4
[08:08] <bddebian> siretart: ??
[08:10] <siretart> bddebian: archive maintenance isn't that much fun. if you want to learn, I'd suggest playing around with dak. I cannot imagine that launchpad is more fun
[08:10] <siretart> bddebian: there is however a launchpad spec for SyncSources. That would be fun if we had that!
[08:10] <zul> bddebian = BOFH
[08:10] <zul> :)
[08:11] <LaserJock> so maybe we need a BddebianForUniverseArchiveAdmin petition ;-)
[08:12] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:12] <bddebian> Gah
[08:13] <bddebian> siretart: I have an archive box running here at my office
[08:14] <bddebian> It just seems that most people that are fairly involved with main put universe sync and UVF requests at a lower priority (Which makes sense of course).
[08:15] <siretart> bddebian: what archive software are you using? reprepro? dak?
[08:16] <bddebian> I was using reprepro
[08:18] <alexr> siretart: Hi, I'm one of the co-developers of gramps
[08:19] <siretart> hey alexr
[08:19] <Spec> What is archive maintenance?
[08:19] <alexr> If you guys package 2.0.11 and want testing, please let our users know about the package.
[08:19] <bddebian> Spec: Adding/removing/etc packages from the archive
[08:19] <alexr> siretart: We have a lot of ubuntu users and they can try your package before it is released.
[08:20] <Spec> like a deb repository?
[08:20] <siretart> alexr: cool. good to hear
[08:20] <siretart> alexr: do you know carsten, the person who requested this exception?
[08:20] <alexr> siretart: he came to our #gramps channel a couple of times.
[08:20] <alexr> siretart: why?
[08:21] <siretart> alexr: do you know if he has the package already prepared?
[08:21] <siretart> alexr: or can you perhaps prepare a test package?
[08:21] <alexr> siretart: we do.
[08:21] <alexr> siretart: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gramps/gramps_2.0.11-2ubuntu_all.deb?download
[08:21] <bddebian> Spec: Exactly
[08:21] <alexr> siretart: this is all on the bug page.
[08:22] <Spec> How does dak and reprepro compare with mini-dinstall?
[08:22] <alexr> siretart: taking the 2.0.9 ubuntu source and re-using debian dir works just fine with one change:
[08:22] <alexr> man page moved from doc to doc/man
[08:22] <alexr> siretart: and this is also on the bug page.
[08:23] <alexr> siretart: I think I put everything there.
[08:23] <siretart> alexr: cool. do you know how to upload to revu?
[08:23] <LaserJock> Spec: apt-cache show mini-dinstall :-)
[08:23] <siretart> or hm..
[08:23] <alexr> siretart: have no idea what this is.
[08:23] <siretart> alexr: ok. no problem
[08:23] <siretart> alexr: I need a source package, you pointed me to a binary package what I cannot review
[08:24] <alexr> siretart: I can get you a source package later today.
[08:24] <alexr> I don't have an ubuntu system myself.
[08:24] <siretart> alexr: it would really help us if you could attach an updated source package to bug #42270, so that we can review the changes
[08:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42270 in gramps "Upstream Version Freeze exception for 2.0.11" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42270
[08:25] <siretart> chninkel: around?
[08:25] <alexr> siretart: so do you want 3 files as a source package?
[08:25] <alexr> siretart: orig, ubuntu.diff, and ubuntu.dsc?
[08:25] <Spec> LaserJock: i've read that, ?
[08:26] <siretart> alexr: right. that 3 files make a debian source package
[08:26] <siretart> alexr: the orig should be byte identical to the 'regular' upstream release (sometime also called 'pristine')
[08:26] <alexr> siretart: I know, I'm a debian guy
[08:26] <alexr> siretart: just was not sure what you want attached.
[08:26] <siretart> ok
[08:27] <alexr> I'll try to get it attached in about 10 hours, maybe less.
[08:27] <alexr> siretart: so would you take it from that point on?
[08:27] <Spec> LaserJock: ah, so dak >> mini-dinstall, in scale
[08:28] <siretart> alexr: I still have tons of other requests, but whoever will work on that request, such a package will surely help to prepare an upload
[08:28] <siretart> alexr: I currently still have about 100 uvf request mails to process :(
[08:29] <alexr> siretart: sorry, won't take up more of your time.
[08:29] <alexr> siretart: thanks
[08:29] <siretart> alexr: you're welcome
[08:59] <LaserJock> siretart: bug #6266 was turned into a UVF request, would you rather have a new bug?
[08:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6266 in xcircuit "UVF Exception: xcircuit" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6266
[09:00] <siretart> LaserJock: this xcircuit thing is really confusing me. this looks rather like an update requiring an uvf exception to me
[09:01] <LaserJock> yes, the new Upstream version that tuxmaniac has packaged fixes many bugs
[09:01] <LaserJock> and so we are asking for a UVFe for it
[09:02] <LaserJock> so tuxmaniac is going to provide the diffstat and changelog, but bddebian changed the bug into a UVFe request
[09:03] <LaserJock> siretart: would a link to the package on REVU help?
[09:04] <bddebian> I linked REVU
[09:04] <LaserJock> oh
[09:04] <LaserJock> ah, I see it, doh
[09:05] <LaserJock> and my pbuilder farm isn't up and running yet ;(
[09:05] <LaserJock> the livecd doesn't work so well on 256MB of RAM, or maybe it just is reeeealy slow
[09:05] <siretart> thanks bddebian
[09:07] <siretart> I'm currently running revu-report on it
[09:08] <bddebian> NP, thx siretart
[09:08] <bddebian> slomo: What's your issue with festival-freebsoft-utils?
[09:10] <slomo> bddebian: please give me the bugnumber again :) then i'll tell you
[09:10] <chninkel> siretart: i am here
[09:10] <bddebian> slomo: Bug #42442
[09:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42442 in festival-freebsoft-utils "UVF Exception: festival-freebsoft-utils" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42442
[09:15] <siretart> chninkel: your latest lirc package FTBFS!
[09:15] <siretart> chninkel: I cannot upload it
[09:16] <chninkel> siretart: I found the build logs
[09:16] <chninkel> siretart: i am looking at it
[09:17] <siretart> chninkel: I assume it's just a matter of build depends
[09:18] <chninkel> siretart: i think, i am looking at the configure to watch exactly what it's looking for
[09:23] <chninkel> siretart: can we use virtual package in build depends ?
[09:24] <siretart> chninkel: this is a #launchpad question, but as far as I remember, sbuild is pretty picky :(
[09:24] <siretart> pbuilder is way more permissive. so a real package seems way more safe to me
[09:25] <siretart> chninkel: try this: realpkg | virtualpkg. this should be safe
[09:26] <siretart> dholbach: I hope you are not upset that I assign random bugs to you
[09:27] <bddebian> hehe
[09:27] <jabra> anyone ever setup dual head on a laptop ?
[09:27] <siretart> jabra: works for me [tm]
[09:28] <jabra> really?
[09:28] <dholbach> siretart: um, my todo list is very long already - I'll have a look and decide what i can do
[09:28] <jabra> can you explain how
[09:28] <jabra> or know of a good tutorial
[09:28] <siretart> dholbach: it was a uvf request you requested yourself ;)
[09:28] <siretart> jabra: the problem is that it really depends on what xorg driver module you are using
[09:29] <jabra> k
[09:29] <siretart> jabra: the configuration differ on all drivers
[09:29] <dholbach> siretart: I thought you'd assign other crazy stuff to me as well
[09:29] <siretart> dholbach: hehe.  I'm using twinview
[09:30] <dholbach> i'll pick a day when I'm in an especially bad mood
[09:30] <jabra> what is the difference
[09:31] <siretart> jabra: twinview allows both heads 3d accelerated. you can even move opengl applications from one head to the other
[09:31] <jabra> that's awesome
[09:31] <siretart> jabra: but it doesn't really support non rectangular virtual desktopsizes very well.
[09:31] <jabra> and xinerama?
[09:31] <siretart> does it perfectly
[09:33] <jabra> but..doesn't handle opengl
[09:35] <siretart> I think it does, on the first head only
[09:35] <siretart> but I never really used it
[09:35] <chninkel> siretart: so how do I build depend on the last kernel headers ?
[09:36] <jabra> siretart: can you nopaste your xorg config or something?
[09:36] <siretart> jabra: I can mail it to you
[09:36] <jabra> k
[09:36] <jabra> jabra @ccs.neu.edu
[09:37] <jabra> appreciate it
[09:37] <siretart> chninkel: I don't think you can. please ask the kernel team to be sure
[09:37] <siretart> jabra: done
[09:38] <jabra> ok i'll give it a try
[09:38] <chninkel> siretart: who is in the kernel team ?
[09:38] <jabra> which nvidia driver are you using?
[09:38] <siretart> jabra: nvidia
[09:39] <jabra> version?
[09:39] <siretart> chninkel: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-kernel-team or #ubuntu-kernel, I think
[09:41] <zul> chninkel: we hang out on #ubuntu-kernel
[09:44] <dholbach> good night fellas
[09:44] <crimsun> 'night daniel
[09:44] <dholbach> night daniel!
[09:44] <zul> nighty night
[09:44] <dholbach> night chuck
[09:54] <jabra> siretart: so I have it working
[09:54] <jabra> but some chars dont work
[09:58] <jabra> fixed the issue
[09:59] <jabra> I suggest you add the Option "NoLogo" anywhere you use the nvidia driver
[10:11] <chx> may I ask whether mplayer-amd64 will work on a 32 bit system? I have a K8 Sempron CPU
[10:12] <slomo_> chx: it's only for transitional purposes... just install the mplayer package, it has everything you want and mplayer-amd64 would pull it in anyway
[10:13] <chx> well, i wanted the most optimized mplayer possible, that's why I asked
[10:13] <slomo_> chx: so get 'mplayer', it has autodetection for cpu features and uses the best possible for your cpu
[10:14] <chx> slomo_: ahhhhhh that's fantastic
[10:15] <chx> thanks
[10:49] <nawty> Howdy
[10:49] <bddebian> Hello nawty
[10:50] <nawty> I've got a question, ( the ever faithfull sentance that every person says when joining a # related to software )
[10:50] <bddebian> Heh
[10:51] <nawty> where would i find iformation on specifically what i need to maintain a package, and what the rules, regs and such would be for adding a package
[10:51] <bddebian> The Debian New Maintainers guide and/or the Ubuntu wiki pages are probably a great start
[10:52] <nawty> I'm alittle confused about somthing.
[10:53] <nawty> There's a package that doesn't seem to be maintained in ubuntu, could i update it ?
[10:53] <nawty> i'm not sure how the whole who does what thing fits in where in regards to packages.
[10:53] <nawty> here's the package : http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/mail/postfix-policyd
[10:53] <nawty> I believe it's an upstream debian package.
[10:56] <siretart> nawty: of course you can update it
[10:56] <siretart> nawty: I'd suggest filing bugs against the package, describing the issues you found, and link from there to the upload you prepared
[10:57] <nawty> siretart: did that a few weeks ago ;)
[10:57] <siretart> nawty: revu is a good place to present your upload candidates
[10:57] <siretart> nawty: ah, even better :)
[10:57] <nawty> siretart: the problem is that upstream ( debian ) seems to have the latest versions already.
[10:57] <nawty> siretart: and the dapper one's a LOT behind
[10:58] <nawty> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/postfix-policyd/+bug/36823
[10:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36823 in postfix-policyd "Update ? debian upstream much higher version..." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[10:58] <siretart> nawty: the thing is that we are soo late in the dev cycle that we require good reports for updating exceptions
[10:58] <nawty> siretart: aah, ok, would i rather want to investigate this more towards post-release time ?
[10:58] <bddebian> Later folks
[10:59] <nawty> later.
[11:00] <siretart> nawty: if there isn't anything really serious, let's defer that when edgy opens. that's the right time to fix upgrades to latest version
[11:00] <siretart> right now we want to stabilize dapper and fix things
[11:01] <nawty> siretart: it's just that the old version ( which is VERY old ) has none of the usefull features.
[11:01] <nawty> siretart: mind helping me work out which bugs are worth a patch?
[11:03] <siretart> nawty: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06 for a start
[11:03] <nawty> siretart: one of the packages i'm using is actually 'broken', what would one do about that ?
[11:05] <siretart> nawty: which bug are you referring to?
[11:05] <nawty> siretart: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dspam/+bug/39918
[11:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39918 in dspam "bug's in libdspam-drv-mysql package." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[11:32] <dudus> hello
[11:32] <dudus> I just built a package that I wanted to upload to the repos
[11:33] <dudus> this package fixes the bug #27904
[11:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 27904 in php5 "mysqli driver missing" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27904
[11:33] <dudus> never did it before... how should I proceed
[11:34] <zul> heylo
[11:35] <dudus> anyone?
[11:37] <LaserJock> dudus: can you attach a debdiff to the bug report?
[11:37] <dudus> this is a new package
[11:37] <dudus> I'll try
[11:59] <dudus> how do I upload packages to the REVU??
[12:00] <siretart> dudus: it involves reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU, and telling me your keyid


[08:39] <ricotz> Noskcaj, btw you might want to look into a proper libgtop2 update
[08:39] <Noskcaj> ...
[08:40] <Noskcaj> I'll look into it after dinner.
[08:40] <ricotz> no pressue
[08:40] <ricotz> no pressure
[08:40]  * darkxst wonders what happened there? haven't really looked, but noticed it was quickly reverted!
[08:41] <ricotz> ignoring lintian with waving flags ;)
[08:44] <darkxst> ricotz, I see, yet someone still sponsored the upload?
[08:45] <ricotz> yes
[08:46] <ricotz> this screams for a symbols file
[08:50] <Noskcaj> darkxst, I assumed a small merge because of the tiny upstream changelog, then didn't lintian my pbuilder result, then someone sponsored my crappy upload
[08:54] <Noskcaj> I'll try and get to it eventually, but it seems upower is more pression
[08:54] <Noskcaj> *pressing
[08:59] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Are the patched ucc and gcc ready for the transition?
[09:05] <darkxst> Noskcaj, they work, although I think it might be better to backport entire power plugin for (g|u)-s-d
[09:05] <Noskcaj> ok
[09:05] <Noskcaj> So now we wait for the phone and desktop teams
[09:05] <Noskcaj> And i should probably contact gilir
[09:07] <darkxst> more info from kubuntu guys would be good also
[09:08] <darkxst> since I don't understand how device management could be affected by systemd vs logind
[09:09] <darkxst> systemd vs upstart even
[22:52] <darkxst> Noskcaj, can you do bug 1283551
[22:53]  * Noskcaj looks
[22:55] <darkxst> Noskcaj, the one marked glib is actually gobject-introspection
[23:08] <Noskcaj> So i package both patches?
[23:14] <darkxst> Noskcaj, yes, one in g-i and the other in gjs
[23:14] <darkxst> make gjs depend on the new g-i
[23:20] <darkxst> <darkxst> Noskcaj, yes, one in g-i and the other in gjs
[23:20] <darkxst> <darkxst> make gjs depend on the new g-i
[23:20] <Noskcaj> ok


[12:05] <IdleOne> op spam!
[13:12]  * h00k forwards LjL2 to ##fix-your-connection
 I wish linux hadn't turned into windows 95
[13:12] <Pici> h00k: do it
[13:12] <bazhang> #ubuntu-windows95
[13:15] <h00k> Pici: if I could
[13:16] <h00k> I need to alias that, the banforward to ##fix-your-connection
[13:16] <h00k> I've never actually forwarded someone there ;)
[14:13] <bazhang> augh LINT
[14:22] <ikonia-remote> cast an eye over arjunshayk when you get chance, he's just randomly pm'd me asking me to teach him hacking as he's from Nigeria, if he's pm'ing me with that sort of request I suspect he's also doing others
[14:23] <Myrtti> oh good grief
[14:25] <ikonia-remote> %100 worth keeping an eye on, maybe having a word with arjunshayk - just informed me he's a "spammer" and wants to spam people with emails
[14:26] <ikonia-remote> asking me to help him find and setup the tools for him to spam people
[14:26] <bazhang> no response via my PM to him
[14:26] <ikonia-remote> doesn't seem to take "no" for an answer
[14:26] <ikonia-remote> I'll leave you to it as I can't really deal with it on here,
 LXDE has windows 3.1 fuctionality, so I don't want to use it yet
[15:15] <bazhang> more nonsense from him
[15:23] <bazhang> * [lolcat] (~xae8koo@unaffiliated/energy-/x-7653247): xae8koo
[15:23] <Pici> lolcat is a troll.
[15:24] <bazhang> he cursed out the floodbots in -unregged a while back
[15:24] <Pici> Hes in #freenode all the time being annoying.
[15:24] <bazhang> and #defocus
[17:43] <Corey> And many others.
[17:43] <Pici> I wasted my time the other day trying to help another user in #freenode, and on a whim I whoised and it turned out to be him :(
[17:44] <mneptok> Pici: get an IRC client with something better than Windows 3.1 functionality
[17:47] <Myrtti> hm?
[17:52] <Corey> Myrtti: Yeah, I'll second that hm.
[17:54] <h00k> yep.
[17:55] <h00k> got it.
[18:03] <mneptok> scrool wasn't so long the joke got lost.
[18:03] <mneptok> was it?
[18:53] <Myrtti> !floodbots > Karesz
[20:16] <guntbert> can someone have an eye on philipp__ in #u please?
[20:28] <guntbert> nvm
[20:36] <h00k> @login
[20:36] <h00k> @btlogin
[23:50] <bazhang> PerfieM, hi
[23:54] <bazhang> PerfieM, was there something you needed help with?


[08:32] <FirePowi> Hi
[10:34] <knome> astraljava, hah. :)
[10:34] <knome> astraljava, thanks for the mail to -users!
[10:56] <astraljava> No worries, I'm just taking the first steps for the upcoming release. Trying to take a bigger role.
[11:05] <knome> \o/
[11:06]  * knome is cleaning up the house
[11:18] <astraljava> You're a strange man.
[11:21] <knome> how?
[11:23] <astraljava> No questions. You just are.
[11:23] <knome> aha
[13:19] <ochosi> knome: i think i've more or less figured out the xfdesktop label setting
[13:20] <ochosi> knome: the only oddity that remains is a selected label when the desktop doesn't have focus. i'm not sure whether it's important or not, but that's something that is already not very nice with our current/default solution
[13:20] <knome> so how does it look then?
[13:21] <ochosi> oh, wait, i just figured that out too
[13:21] <knome> hah
[13:21] <knome> astraljava, damn, everything in popparienkeli is -70% now..
[13:22] <knome> astraljava, (didn't go there yesterday though, but it's open only until friday)
[13:22] <ochosi> i'll provide a few screenshots later
[13:22] <knome> great
[13:22] <ochosi> the font will have to stay bold for desktop-items
[13:23] <ochosi> it really improves readability
[13:23] <knome> yeah
[13:23] <ochosi> i think it might generally be a good thing
[13:23] <astraljava> knome: Soo... I don't see the problem. Help me spot it. :D
[13:24] <astraljava> ochosi: You might be on to something there. *grin*
[13:24] <knome> astraljava, well, i was just wondering if you had any interests to join me someday
[13:25] <astraljava> Oh, certainly. Not tomorrow, though, unless I get out from work early enough. Jyp plays the 5th final tomorrow.
[13:25] <knome> hehe
[13:25] <astraljava> But that's 18:30, so could do before that, time permitting.
[13:25] <knome> better to go with time
[13:26] <astraljava> Right, might be better.
[13:26] <knome> though i still don't know if i'll find anything to buy there :(
[13:26] <astraljava> Oh wait, on Tuesday a friend brings some boxes for the move, so that's bad too.
[13:26] <astraljava> Will that be too late then to go on Wednesday?
[13:27] <knome> of course not
[13:27] <astraljava> Okay, so could that work?
[13:27] <knome> as said, i'm not looking for anything specific
[13:27] <astraljava> Right.
[13:27] <knome> wednesday sounds good
[13:27] <astraljava> Excellent.
[13:27] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-032735pm.php
[13:28] <knome> ochosi, that's pretty good.
[13:28] <astraljava> Shall we say around 5-ish?
[13:28] <knome> ochosi, what about trying it against the cloud-wallpaper we saw earlier?
[13:28] <knome> astraljava, yeah, worksforme :)
[13:28] <knome> astraljava, at kamppi i suppose? :)
[13:28] <astraljava> ochosi: Yeah that looks sweet!
[13:29] <ochosi> thanks :)
[13:29] <astraljava> knome: Well either that, or at the store itself, up to you.
[13:29] <astraljava> Or of course somewhere else if you have a better idea.
[13:29] <knome> kamppi works well, because i'm going to have to come there first too
[13:29] <astraljava> I doubt it, mine are usually superior.
[13:29] <astraljava> *grin*
[13:29] <knome> har
[13:29] <knome> so, wed, 17 @ kamppi
[13:30] <astraljava> Will mark it on the calendar.
[13:30] <knome> that's actually super
[13:30] <knome> if they have ordered the new kent album, they'll have it
[13:30] <knome> if not, then i'll just buy it elsewhere
[13:30] <knome> but getting -70% would be great
[13:30] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033034pm.php
[13:30] <knome> though i suppose they haven't been getting much new stuff in...
[13:30] <ochosi> this time you can also see how a selection currently looks
[13:30] <astraljava> Probably not, but we'll see.
[13:31] <astraljava> You guys are magicians.
[13:31] <ochosi> who?
[13:31] <knome> ochosi, me, and me
[13:31] <ochosi> hah
[13:32] <ochosi> as you can see the shadow changes when an item is selected
[13:32] <knome> it's very subtle though
[13:33] <knome> i'm actually even thinking that might be a bit bad.
[13:33] <ochosi> it's because the whole implementation is a hack (combining the shadow-option of xfdesktop [set to top-left] and murrine [set to bottom-right])
[13:33] <knome> i mean, isn't it a bit weird to have two different "light sources" ?
[13:33] <ochosi> there is no "surrounding" shadow
[13:33] <ochosi> the only thing i can do is make the other shadow appear (bottom-right)
[13:33] <astraljava> knome: Shush... that's genious.
[13:34] <ochosi> i have to combine two "diagonal" shadows, if you know what i mean
[13:34] <knome> hah :)
[13:34] <knome> ochosi, yup
[13:34] <knome> ochosi, what if you tried the "normal" way?
[13:34] <knome> (shadow at bottom-right)
[13:34] <knome> that's somehow more natural looking
[13:34] <ochosi> yeah, wait, actually give me a sec, i might still be able to figure it out
[13:34] <knome> :)
[13:37] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033659pm.php
[13:37] <ochosi> done :)
[13:37] <knome> humm
[13:37] <ochosi> xfdesktop has an amazing amount of theming switches...
[13:37] <knome> what if you tried just one shadow in the bottom-right?
[13:37] <ochosi> meh
[13:38] <ochosi> i'm not a big fan, because then i have to switch shadows (murrine/xfdesktop) :/
[13:39] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-033913pm.php
[13:39] <ochosi> i can't tweak that shadow-color btw
[13:39] <ochosi> murrine doesn't distinguish between selected and normal
[13:39] <knome> i think that's better than the other version
[13:39] <ochosi> rly?
[13:39] <ochosi> i think the shadow is too bright
[13:39] <knome> yeah
[13:40] <knome> i can live with the other too, but i think this works better than the other
[13:40] <ochosi> and as i said, i can't change it
[13:41] <ochosi> i'll think about it, but i think the rest of the settings is fine as is
[13:41] <ochosi> bbiab
[13:41] <knome> yup, agreed on that
[14:25] <astraljava> knome: re: Release Notes, why does it say to use `do-release-upgrade -d`, isn't that supposed to go out when it's no longer a dev release?
[14:36] <knome> astraljava, that's something kate or smb else has put in there
[14:39] <astraljava> Oh... so, it hasn't had a comb-through yet?
[14:39] <knome> no, not completely
[14:39] <astraljava> We should probably do it tonight. Got spare time?
[14:40] <knome> sure.
[14:40] <knome> now? :)
[14:40] <astraljava> Why not, I'll just make a sandwich first.
[14:40] <knome> ok
[14:40] <knome> actually, it looks like upgrading is the only section that needs updating
[14:43] <astraljava> Oh ok, so then it's going to be quick.
[14:44] <knome> yeah. no need for sandwiches to survive
[14:45] <astraljava> Heh. :)
[14:46] <knome> so i suppose it's just s/-d// ?
[14:47] <astraljava> Yeah. And is it really that is shows Ubuntu?
[14:47] <knome> huh?
[14:47] <astraljava> Have the window manager shortcuts really changed?
[14:47] <knome> yes, they should have
[14:48] <astraljava> (it shows as Ubuntu, but updates Xubuntu);
[14:48] <knome> i'm not sure if that's true for upgrades
[14:48] <knome> hmm.
[14:48] <knome> i've no idea.
[14:49] <knome> i think stgraber has been testing xubuntu upgrades too, should ask him, or anybody else who actually did that
[14:50] <astraljava> I'll give it a go in virt.
[14:50] <knome> i suppose that's works as well :)
[14:57] <astraljava> "This makes Ubuntu more consistent the upstream implementation and with Debian." Shouldn't it be "...more consistent with the upstream implementation and Debian."?
[14:58] <astraljava> But I can't find it in the edit mode.
[14:58]  * astraljava scratches head
[14:58] <knome> it's probably just included
[14:58] <knome> look for <<Include
[15:01] <astraljava> Yeah that was it, thanks.
[15:01] <knome> np
[15:03] <knome> i think some porcupine tree stuff could work.
[15:04] <astraljava> I need something heavier to keep me going.
[15:04] <astraljava> Pagan's Mind will do nicely.
[15:04] <knome> i was referring to the PE-excursion :)
[15:06] <astraljava> Hmm... well now you lost me completely.
[15:06] <knome> wednesday?
[15:06] <astraljava> Right.
[15:06] <astraljava> Got it.
[15:07] <knome> :)
[15:10] <astraljava> Yeah I won't object if you insist on buying some PT stuff for me.
[15:10] <knome> haha. :)
[15:10] <knome> i don't have too much myself, and i don't think i like all of their stuff.
[15:14] <knome> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/04/10/1639252/kubuntu-to-be-sponsored-by-blue-systems-rather-than-canonical
[15:14] <knome> that's interesting news.
[15:16] <astraljava> Yes indeed.
[15:17] <astraljava> Isn't it "sticky window" instead of "stick window"?
[15:17] <knome> i think the verb is "stick(ing) window"
[15:17] <knome> not stickying
[15:17] <knome> maybe "make the window sticky"
[15:17] <astraljava> Ok.
[15:18] <astraljava> "...moving and resizing [a window|windows]"?
[15:19] <knome> windows
[15:19] <knome> if you're doing changes to the "new shortcuts" -section, they should be updated to the article on xubuntu.org too
[15:20] <ochosi> knome: i can also "double" the shadow in selected items on the desktop: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-052051pm.php
[15:21] <ochosi> it's very pronounced though, not exactly elegant...
[15:21] <knome> huh
[15:21] <knome> no
[15:21] <ochosi> otoh it's visually very clear
[15:22] <knome> sure
[15:22] <knome> what if the "first" shadow was white?
[15:22] <ochosi> i can only tweak the outer-shadow
[15:22] <knome> aha
[15:22] <astraljava> knome: Can we really update with using a Desktop CD nowadays? Where has this line come from?  Stable releases are found at http://releases.ubuntu.com
[15:25] <astraljava> Should that be changed, or do we know if that pattern will work later on, as well?
[15:25] <knome> i'd ask skaet
[15:25] <astraljava> Ok.
[15:28] <astraljava> So you just wanted to see whether I do my job or not?! ;D
[15:29] <knome> no, i really just noticed that :P
[15:29] <astraljava> Suuuure. :D
[15:29] <knome> O:)
[15:31] <astraljava> A rum-stained halo, for sure.
[15:32] <knome> who knows...
[15:33] <astraljava> Have I already asked; does it really require 5GB space these days?
[15:33] <knome> i don't think you have
[15:33] <knome> i don't know the answer either, though
[15:33] <knome> i copied that from help.ubuntu.com
[15:37] <astraljava> Ok, well, I'll see it pretty reliably once I upgrade from oneiric.
[15:38] <knome> mmh
[15:44] <astraljava> Hmmm... I thought aptitude got multiarch support just recently?
[15:45] <astraljava> We have ARM images?!
[15:57] <knome> yes, multiarch isn't that old
[15:58] <knome> xubuntu probably doesn't have the arm images, that's probably included too
[16:02] <astraljava> Yeah, bug #831768 seems to say it landed in March already.
[16:03] <astraljava> hrm... not sure whether it is actually usable, still.
[16:04] <knome> again, i think people in -release will know better
[16:07] <astraljava> Already asked.
[16:07] <knome> just noticed :)
[16:20] <astraljava> knome: Ok, I think I can live with the Release Notes now. I didn't realize at first that the ARM reference came from Common Infrastructure, too.
[17:14] <knome> astraljava, yep, thanks for the work
[17:15] <astraljava> knome: I accidentally vanilla.
[17:15] <astraljava> *sigh*
[17:18] <knome> i chocolate
[17:19] <astraljava> I invited a friend for the PE trip, but when he heard of the sales, he said he'd likely try to go tomorrow already. We'll see. :)
[17:19] <knome> awwh :)
[17:19] <ochosi> hm, what would you think, xubuntu or debian+xfce for my homeserver?
[17:19] <knome> i'd say debian
[17:19] <ochosi> mhm, why?
[17:20] <ochosi> tradition?
[17:20] <knome> not so much unnecessary stuff
[17:20] <astraljava> CentOS
[17:20] <ochosi> CentOS? what's that again, something debian-based?
[17:20] <ochosi> ah, right, yeah, the unnecessary stuff is a good argument
[17:21] <knome> astraljava, that isn't one of the options in "xubuntu" and "debian+xfce" :)
[17:21] <ochosi> haha
[17:21] <astraljava> Nah, Community ENTerprise OS. Based on RH.
[17:21] <astraljava> knome: There's always the third, hidden option.
[17:21] <astraljava> I always take that.
[17:21] <ochosi> yeah, well it should play flash etc, it's a multimedia server
[17:21] <ochosi> the thing is that i like debian packaging, that's what i'm used to
[17:21] <astraljava> Then choose one of those new-fangled spin-offs of Ubuntu with lots of ZZ's in their names.
[17:22] <knome> otoh, if you want newer packages... then maybe xubuntu
[17:22] <ochosi> yeah, or debian unstable?
[17:22] <knome> but even then, i'd maybe go with the minimal installation
[17:22] <ochosi> i also don't really know which debian version i should go with
[17:22] <ochosi> yeah, maybe ubuntu minimal is a good choice
[17:22] <knome> i thought even unstable had older packages than ubuntu
[17:22] <knome> but maybe i'm wrong
[17:23] <ochosi> i think it does
[17:23] <astraljava> This may have been the case until recently, when people really started to pay attention to the 'New packages into Debian first' mentality.
[17:23] <knome> that being said, i also think the new stuff gets to ubuntu quicker than debian
[17:23] <knome> astraljava, yeah, maybe. that makes sense tho
[17:24] <astraljava> It may not have change completely, but it's going to be better. And in some cases sid still is ahead of Ubuntu dev.
[17:24] <astraljava> changed*
[17:24] <ochosi> the nice advantage of ubuntu are the ppas
[17:24] <astraljava> Especially when Ubuntu is nearing towards the end of the dev cycle.
[17:25] <ochosi> being able to easily manage additional software sources isn't as manifold and simple in debian (status of when i last tried it)
[17:25] <knome> yeah, that's the bad side
[17:25] <astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, that's right. jussi for instance made me realize there's this awesome service called sopcasting. Probably totally illegal, but it's in a PPA. :D
[17:25] <ochosi> hehe
[17:25] <knome> yes, totally illegal.
[17:25] <astraljava> knome: Ok, please wipe this from the logs.
[17:26] <knome> but really useful for following cycling
[17:26] <ochosi> lol
[17:26] <astraljava> *smirk*
[17:26] <knome> damn, the eurosport player doesn't even work on linux
[17:26] <knome> even if i wanted to give them my money
[17:26] <ochosi> astraljava: so why CentOS?
[17:26] <astraljava> ochosi: Not really, I just installed it the first time yesterday evening.
[17:26] <knome> doesn't people say centos is really secure?
[17:26] <astraljava> ochosi: Not for fun, mind you. Work-related.
[17:26] <knome> though i think it has the same issue with not having new packages
[17:27] <ochosi> mhm
[17:27] <ochosi> right, so i guess i could take the server images of ubuntu then...
[17:27] <astraljava> knome: Yeah, it's like Red Hat, but not company-backed.
[17:27] <knome> ochosi, no!
[17:27] <knome> i mean, uh
[17:27] <ochosi> knome: why not?
[17:27] <knome> i've heard the ubuntu server is not too good
[17:27] <ochosi> oh
[17:28] <ochosi> a-ha
[17:28] <knome> but otoh, what do i know, never run it myself
[17:28] <astraljava> knome: Playing the spin doctor here?
[17:28] <knome> but some weird defaults, i hear
[17:28] <ochosi> ah, hmm
[17:28] <knome> maybe it's okay for you
[17:28] <ochosi> well i don't know what ubuntu-minimal has as defaults
[17:28] <knome> i mean, it's probably all taste...
[17:28] <ochosi> i mean server-relevant defaults
[17:28] <knome> ochosi, probably the same stuff though ;)
[17:28] <knome> but you can select which packages you're getting
[17:29] <knome> i mean, better granularity
[17:29] <ochosi> you mean with minimal?
[17:29] <knome> on a server, i'd probably remove install-recommends
[17:29] <knome> yeah
[17:29] <ochosi> ok
[17:29] <knome> you can always install the recommended packages manually if something seems not to work
[17:29] <ochosi> we'll see, i'll dl both versions now (server,alternate) and then decide
[17:30] <knome> not the minimal? :)
[17:30] <ochosi> yeah, i hate the fact that recommends==depends in ubuntu
[17:30] <knome> well, they are not!
[17:30] <knome> they just appear the same
[17:30] <ochosi> wait, i thought with alternate i can install minimal, no?
[17:30] <knome> no
[17:30] <knome> minimal is really minimal
[17:30] <knome> !minimal
[17:31] <ochosi> what about 12.04?
[17:32] <knome> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[17:32] <knome> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[17:32] <knome> try those :P
[17:32] <ochosi> woot, 30mb? :)
[17:32] <knome> yeah.
[17:32] <knome> minimal.
[17:33] <knome> it doesn't install X if you don't tell it to.
[17:33] <ochosi> mhm, sounds ideal
[17:33] <ochosi> i think i want X though :)
[17:33] <knome> or, if you don't tell it to install something that needs X
[17:33] <knome> but remember to remove the install-recommends at the beginning ;)
[17:34] <knome> otherwise you'll quickly end up installing half of gnome ;)
[17:35] <ochosi> meh, somehow the mini.iso doesn't seem to work with usb-startup-disc creator
[17:35] <knome> yes, because the startup creator only support desktop images anyway
[17:35] <ochosi> argh
[17:35] <knome> (not even alternative)
[17:35] <ochosi> ok, so how do i create a startup-disc with that?
[17:36] <knome> i'm not sure.
[17:36] <ochosi> i don't have a cd drive in my server :)
[17:36] <knome> i did that once, but i don't remember
[17:38] <ochosi> ok, unetbootin seems to be the way to go
[17:38] <knome> the weirdest thing i did was a bootable cd with grub that loaded usb drivers and thus allowed booting from usb on a laptop that didn't support booting from usb
[17:38] <ochosi> lol
[17:38] <ochosi> that's a pretty spiffy trick
[17:38] <knome> but that worked! instant win
[17:39] <ochosi> i'll try to remember that (if i ever meet a pc again without usb-booting)
[17:39] <knome> hehe :)
[17:39] <knome> probably won't see many
[17:43] <knome> what a lovely spring night.
[17:45] <ochosi> hmright, as soon as the
[17:45] <ochosi> argh
[17:46] <ochosi> unplugged the router .)
[17:46] <knome> hehe
[17:46] <ochosi> ... installer is running i'll try to fix the desktop icon stuff
[17:46] <ochosi> at least one more thing that's dealt with
[17:47] <knome> hah, yeah, even before the cycle has started
[17:47] <knome> or are you trying to get that in precise? :P
[17:47] <ochosi> yeha, it#s something for proposed
[17:47] <knome> sounds better ;)
[17:48] <astraljava> knome: Too true. Too bad I don't yet feel well enough for a stroll outside, I'd totally love to take one.
[17:48] <knome> mmh :/
[17:54] <jussi> I deny everything!
[17:55] <knome> jussi, that's what the guilty people usually do, you're correct
[17:55] <jussi>  lol
[17:55] <Unit193> Yep, he's bad.
[17:56] <astraljava> I actually rather like that one fella's nick on one of these channels, I forget which exactly.
[17:56] <astraljava> IAmNotThatGuy
[17:57] <astraljava> Sort of reminds of that jussi's outburst. :)
[17:57] <knome> s/'s outburst//
[17:58] <astraljava> Hahah.
[17:58]  * astraljava ^5's knome
[17:59] <knome> that's a lot of mass
[18:01] <astraljava> Massive Attack?
[18:01] <knome> nah.
[18:01]  * knome is listening to explosions in the sky
[18:01]  * astraljava wants to go see Iron Sky
[18:01]  * knome not so much
[18:01] <astraljava> You're no fun.
[18:01] <astraljava> I was just about to ask whether you'd go with me on Wed.
[18:01] <knome> i suppose it can be relatively entertaining, but maybe on a dvd someday.
[18:02] <knome> hehe :)
[18:02] <astraljava> bah
[18:02] <knome> i'll think about it. we should have a few spare tickets left.
[18:02] <knome> i'll let you know tomorrow, ok? :)
[18:02] <knome> i was personally thinking some nhl11 at ours.
[18:03] <knome> btw, where's your temporary residence?
[18:04] <knome> at the cleaning room in the office? :P
[18:05] <astraljava> It's two doors down from where I will move to on the eve of 1st of May. :)
[18:06] <knome> ohh, you got an apartment? :)
[18:06] <astraljava> Which reminds me, what are you doing on that afternoon?! *grin*
[18:06] <knome> congrats.
[18:06] <astraljava> It's 99% finalized.
[18:06] <knome> nothing that i know of, yet
[18:06] <astraljava> But should get done one of these days, probably tomorrow. Työsuhdeasunto, too.
[18:06] <knome> great. :)
[18:07] <astraljava> Alright, then you're helping me move. EOD.
[18:07] <knome> ok. :)
[18:07] <knome> i've already promised to do the same stuff on 2nd of may. :)
[18:07] <knome> remind you, i don't have a driver's license
[18:07] <astraljava> Well in all fairness, the more friends I'll have here, the sooner you're free to celebrate. If there's, say, four of us, I bet the heavy stuff are in in less than half an hour or so.
[18:08] <knome> hehe, yeah
[18:08] <astraljava> No, it's the eve of 1st of May.
[18:08] <ochosi> humm, any filesystem advice?
[18:08] <astraljava> 30.4.
[18:08] <ochosi> btrfs? ext4?
[18:08] <knome> astraljava, yeah, but i'm moving an another friend in 2nd of may :)
[18:08] <astraljava> My iPhone is haunted.
[18:08] <astraljava> Sure, sure.
[18:09] <astraljava> ochosi: I have no idea, so I'd go with ext4.
[18:09] <astraljava> There are probably better ones for server usage, though. JFS? *shrug*
[18:09] <knome> i don't know much about that either
[18:09] <knome> google.
[18:10] <astraljava> Err... sorry, it was XFS that I was thinking of.
[18:11] <astraljava> ...though, it seems that extX handles power losses better.
[18:12] <astraljava> But, this is just a quick glimpse. Better not give you any FUD. Just RTFM.
[18:20] <ochosi> hmyeah, i went with ext4
[18:20] <ochosi> even though ext2 might be better when trying to reduce write-cycles
[18:23] <astraljava> ochosi: I just read that XFS is better for huge files, which that being a media server, might host DVD or even blu-ray images at some point, no?
[18:23] <ochosi> humwell, the media-files are all on external harddrives
[18:23] <astraljava> Yea ok.
[18:23] <ochosi> for internal use (system, torrent-cache) i have a 60gb ssd
[18:23] <knome> yeah, i don't think ochosi is rich enough to buy a BIG ssd ;)
[18:24] <ochosi> heh
[18:24] <ochosi> well, yeah, "BIG" :)
[18:24] <knome> well, to host bluray discs...
[18:27] <astraljava> Yeah well, I didn't think you'd need SSD for serving those, the data stream isn't _that_ huge. :D
[18:28] <knome> no, but i knew ochosi had bought an SSD
[18:28] <astraljava> Ahh... ok.
[18:28] <ochosi> i have 2TB of external hdds
[18:29] <ochosi> which will partly raid (via rsync) and use the rest as media storage
[18:29] <knome> i don't have that much HDD space altogether :)
[18:29] <knome> though, i don't need that much either...
[18:29] <ochosi> mhm, i've never had so much before
[18:34] <knome> astraljava, viekkain eläin kettu on ja sen röyhkeys on uskomaton - luulin koiraani ketuksi ja sen ammuin, oijoijoi... niin ovela vain kettu olla voi
[18:34] <ochosi> finnish is a weird language :)
[18:34] <knome> astraljava, i know you like animals, so i had to paste you those nice song lyrics
[18:34] <astraljava> knome: Lay off the rum for today, will ya?
[18:35] <knome> astraljava, no, that's an actual recorded song
[18:35] <astraljava> Hehehe. Yeah but winning my heart over shooting dogs is a task too hard even for you. :D
[18:35] <knome> haha
[18:35] <knome> but it was the fox!
[18:35] <knome> or, at least, its fault...
[18:36] <astraljava> Yes. It really wasn't the fox.
[18:36] <astraljava> Which makes me a sad panda, now.
[18:36]  * astraljava made an awesome animal bridge there, no?
[18:36] <knome> no
[18:36] <knome> :D
[18:37] <ochosi> knome: ok, i can control the inner-shadow on xfdesktop's selected items
[18:37] <knome> ochosi, quick translation: fox is the craftiest animal and its impudence is unbelievable - i thought my dog was a fox and i shot it, ohnono... only a fox can be so sly
[18:37] <ochosi> i think yellow might be the way to go: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-04222012-083737pm.php
[18:38] <ochosi> heh
[18:38] <knome> uhoh! NO!
[18:38] <knome> that's horrible
[18:38] <ochosi> ;)
[18:39] <ochosi> so i think i probably won't set a second shadow for the selected shadow
[18:40] <astraljava> knome: I'm just using this channel as a pad, but oneiric install eats 3.0GB according to du.
[18:41] <knome> k :)
[18:43] <astraljava> knome: And update-manager -d won't even mention of a devel release, so can't check that part of the Notes.
[18:43] <knome> huh?
[18:43] <knome> how can that be
[18:43] <astraljava> No idea.
[18:44] <knome> weird.
[19:52] <knome> damn. i really want to go out, so maybe i should.
[20:20] <ochosi> ok, managed to setup my homeserver as wlan router now
[20:21] <knome> heh
[22:21] <knome> i'm off for today, see you later
[22:28] <ochosi> see ya


[02:02] <Danni-33> hello, is anyone here familiar with the kubernetes-core bundle? it keeps failing to install easyrsa for me and I am unsure how to debug...
[02:02] <Danni-33> seems to stop with this: 2016-11-14 01:07:33 INFO client-relation-changed error: could not download resource: HTTP request failed: resource#easyrsa/easyrsa not found
[08:01] <kjackal> good morning juju world
[10:08] <Mmike> Hello, guys. Do  you know when 1.25.7 is going to hit trusty archives? (or at least stable juju ppa?) I see that 1.25.7 got release almost two weeks ago: https://launchpad.net/juju-core/+milestone/1.25.7
[10:22] <magicaltrout> kjackal: its a shame you're not here, i need someone to laugh at!
[10:22] <magicaltrout> .. i mean with
[10:42] <kjackal> magicaltrout: :)
[10:53] <kjackal> magicaltrout: so what are the highlights from apache big data?
[10:56] <magicaltrout> kjackal: admcleod 's shiny head, SaMnCo 's campness and my sobriety so far.....
[11:03] <magicaltrout> marcoceppi: when you wake up, i spun up a bunch of stuff the otherday, then did apt-get update which amazingly removed everything from my /home directory
[11:03] <magicaltrout> so I can't shut the nodes down
[11:04] <magicaltrout> so when you clean stuff up, i've got a bunch of crap running doing nothing cause I can't access them
[11:04] <marcoceppi> magicaltrout: I'm in EU time zones
[11:04] <magicaltrout> or that
[11:04] <magicaltrout> fair enough
[11:04] <marcoceppi> magicaltrout: so I'll do tha tnow
[11:04] <magicaltrout> i have some nodes running :P
[11:05] <marcoceppi> magicaltrout: in eu-west-1?
[11:05] <magicaltrout> sounds correct
[11:08] <marcoceppi> magicaltrout: cleaned up, you may need to kill-controller to reset
[11:08] <magicaltrout> i have no home directory, it's as reset as it comes :P
[11:08] <magicaltrout> thanks
[11:20] <admcleod> i wonder if the code of conduct specifies 'cant slap tom' explicitly
[11:22] <magicaltrout> doubt it, but as you're a woman i'm not allowed to retort either which is deeply unfair admcleod
[11:23] <admcleod> excellent
[11:32] <magicaltrout> admcleod: one of you chaps should sit down with Rich Bowen and do a quick interview about why juju works well with Apache projects
[11:32] <magicaltrout> i'm sure you wont, but just a thought
[11:32] <magicaltrout> send petevg along to talk nonsense
[11:35] <admcleod> *cut* *paste*
[11:38] <petevg> I can talk nonsense. Sounds fun.
[11:39] <magicaltrout> well we're wanting more projects other than Bigtop to upstream charms
[11:39] <magicaltrout> so chatting with Rich about it in an audio blog thing wouldn't be a bad way to get the message out a bit
[11:49] <petevg> magicaltrout: has Rich established a base of operations somewhere, or is it a matter of bumping into him?
[11:51] <magicaltrout> he'll just be milling around petevg
[11:52] <magicaltrout> I asked him earlier he said the best bet is getting him whilst sessions are on as it'll be a quiet period
[11:52] <petevg> Cool. Thx, magicaltrout
[12:00] <rock> Hi all.  We need to know the answer for one question. This is very important for us. In order to interact with charm store we need Ubuntu SSO account and we need to login to launchpad even once right. We created Ubuntu SSO account with Mail ID<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and username is "kaminario". We had account authentication issue. So without deactivating launchpad account unknowingly we deleted Ubuntu SSO account perm
[12:00] <rock> Then we tried to create Ubuntu SSO account  using the same mail ID and username. But we got an issue like "kaminario" username already in use. Probably "kaminario" username has stored somewhere in server cache. So please provide me the way to get "kaminario" username back. Because we want "kaminario" username account to push our charm store. How can we delete "kaminario" username from ubuntu server cache?
[12:00] <rock> We raised the bug. But didn't get reply. https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/jujucharms.com/issues/372
[12:54] <axino> rock: hi, please email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with your request and we'll sort it out
[14:14] <rock> axino: OK. Thanks.
[14:28] <rock> axino: We will put mail very soon. Please provide me the resolution as soon as possible. Thanks.
[16:10] <pascalmazon> Hello, I'm developping a charm that takes control replaces the standard network driver to use our own userland one.
[16:10] <pascalmazon> To do so, it performs an `ifdown -a` then `ifup -a` to re-record the interfaces configuration.
[16:10] <pascalmazon> Unfortunately, the lxd-bridge is not registered in /etc/network, and lxdbr0 ports to my containers are lost.
[16:10] <pascalmazon> I have to manually re-add veth ifaces into lxdbr0.
[16:10] <pascalmazon> Do you people have a suggestion on how to deal with that properly?
[16:14] <pascalmazon> I tried `systemctl restart lxd-bridge` just in case. didn't change the situation
[16:28] <jproulx> is there a complete reference for the YAML I can use in specifying a private OpenStack cloud?  specifically now I'm trying to define what network to use but seems like a full reference would be quite handy
[17:06] <rick_h> jproulx: I believe you just need --config network=$uuid
[17:08] <bloodearnest> marcoceppi, many thanks for charm-tools 2.1.6 \o/, works for me on trusty
[17:11] <marcoceppi> bloodearnest: thanks for the confirmation. Can't wait for snaps on trusty then i can boot out these debs and dep management
[17:11] <bloodearnest> marcoceppi, looking forward to it! :)
[17:22] <cory_fu> marcoceppi, mbruzek, aisrael: Please take a look at https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/issues/276
[17:23] <mbruzek> cory_fu:  on it
[17:23] <mbruzek> cory_fu: Do you mean: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/pull/282
[17:23] <aisrael> cory_fu: ack, I ran into that problem as well
[17:24] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Yes, the PR not the issue.  Thanks
[17:25] <cory_fu> aisrael: I believe the PR should resolve both issues, as I believe they were both due to the venv not being used and it instead trying to upgrade pip on the system.  I'm not 100% certain about it fixing #274, though
[17:26] <cory_fu> aisrael: Hrm.  On second thought, I think it probably won't, since that's failing in load_entry_point
[17:32] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Comments addressed or replied to
[17:33] <mbruzek> cory_fu:  OK. I had another one just now. I think venv parameter is unused.
[17:34] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Hrm.  It's not exactly unused, but I agree that it's confusing
[17:35] <mbruzek> cory_fu:  oh? let me take another look then.
[17:35] <cory_fu> I changed it to a state var because we had multiple levels of passing it through now.
[17:35] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Take a look now.  param removed entirely
[17:35] <mbruzek> cory_fu: How/where does __call__ get invoked?
[17:36] <cory_fu> mbruzek: That's the main entry point for the tactic.  It's invoked by the build system
[17:37] <mbruzek> Ok thanks cory_fu
[17:37] <cory_fu> mbruzek: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/blob/master/charmtools/build/builder.py#L448
[17:37] <cory_fu> That's the initial call, and the call within WheelhouseTactic.__call__ is recursion
[17:38] <cory_fu> (Sort of)
[17:42] <cory_fu> mbruzek: I added a clarification to my explanation about the difference between the 1.x and 9.x pips and why each is needed.  I think the verison pin in the PR is needed, but I am a little worried that it is a bit "hidden" in the code.
[17:42] <cory_fu> But having it should prevent breakages due to newer versions being released in the future.
[17:43] <jproulx> rick_h: thanks --config network=$uuid was the next puzzle piece
[17:43] <mbruzek> cory_fu: Yes I am trying to verify the .join logic, then you get my +1
[17:43] <rick_h> jproulx: so you should be able to stick that in the cloud file via nested yaml
[17:43] <rick_h> config: <newline and indent>network=$uuid
[17:44] <rick_h> jproulx: you were the one on the mailing list thread?
[17:44] <jproulx> thanks it was the 'config:' section I was missing
[17:44] <jproulx> rick_h: yup that's me
[17:45] <mbruzek> cory_fu: When I make a local path _venv I tried this command: 'bash', '-c', ' '.join(('.', _venv / 'bin' / 'activate', ';', 'pip3') + args)
[17:45] <mbruzek> I get: TypeError: can only concatenate tuple (not "list") to tuple
[17:46] <rick_h> jproulx: k, I'll reply to the thread as well to make sure it's documented. thanks for fighting through it
[17:46] <cory_fu> mbruzek: def foo(*args): comes in as a tuple.  If you defined it as a list, it won't wokr
[17:46] <cory_fu> mbruzek: i.e., use args = ('foo',) instead of args = ['foo']
[17:47] <mbruzek> oh
[17:47] <cory_fu> I never really understood why Python rejects tuple + list or list + tuple.  They seem like reasonably compatible types
[17:47] <cory_fu> I mean, list.extend(tuple) works fine
[17:48] <mbruzek> TypeError: can only concatenate tuple (not "dict") to tuple
[17:48] <cory_fu> As does a_tuple + tuple(a_list)
[17:48] <cory_fu> mbruzek: lolwut
[17:48] <mbruzek> I made args['foo']='bar'
[17:49] <cory_fu> mbruzek: Yeah, a dict is not a tuple
[17:49] <mbruzek> my mistake
[17:49] <mbruzek> I see the error of my ways now
[17:49] <mbruzek> thanks
[17:49] <cory_fu> :)
[17:51] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: Can you take a look at https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/pull/282 and include that in the release?
[18:01] <sk_> Hi, I have a query related to juju relations. When we add a relation say juju add-relation Service A Service B, the relation is added at service level.So if Service B has multiple units deployed, each and every unit of Service B will connect to Service A.
[18:02] <sk_> But I have this requirement where I want relations to be added at unit level, can we achieve this ?
[18:03] <magicaltrout> what does the unit stuff achieve sk_ ?
[18:03] <magicaltrout> for example you could detect if it was the leader unit and act on that I guess, or pick out other unit specifics
[18:04] <sk_> the scenario is that unit1 of Service A gets connected only to unit1 of Service B and similarly unit2 of Service A gets connected to unit2 of Service B and so on
[18:06] <magicaltrout> sk_: but how would you ensure the same number of units existed in each?
[18:06] <magicaltrout> that said, when the relation is joined you could ask for a list of units from the other side
[18:07] <magicaltrout> and use some logic to pick the one you want, no?
[18:07] <rick_h> sk_: I think you'd have to basically allow juju to manage the juju relation data, but work with the leader to coordinate exact to exact requirements
[18:07] <rick_h> sk_: the issue would be that what happens when unit 3 goes down and you add unit 9 and you want A9 to work with B3
[18:08] <magicaltrout> you could setup some config based hash to maintain the connection list, not sure what happens if machines go missing though
[18:10] <sk_> ok, thanks I would try out these options and see it works for my requirement
[18:10] <magicaltrout> demoed some juju stuff to some folk from JPL today rick_h they have plans to upstream a Solr Cloud charm and some other bits hopefully
[18:11] <rick_h> magicaltrout: <3 awesome, solr the fulltext tool or something different?
[18:11] <magicaltrout> yeah they make use of solr a lot instead of elasticsearch. I believe they have some spark <-connector->solr platform
[18:11] <magicaltrout> so were looking to use the spark charms with some solr stuff
[18:12] <magicaltrout> they were trying to do it in docker so we ran through the juju stuff and quickly got them converted
[18:13] <rick_h> nice
[18:42] <marcoceppi> cory_fu: that didn't fix it
[18:45] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: I'm getting a different error now: Command 'lsb_release -a' returned non-zero exit status 1
[18:45] <marcoceppi> cory_fu: yeah
[18:45] <marcoceppi> because you're using bash
[18:45] <cory_fu> It is using the venv pip, though
[18:45] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: Why is using bash a problem?
[18:45] <marcoceppi> well, maybe not
[18:46] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: File "/tmp/tmpJDK3hF/bin/pip3", line 11, in <module>
[18:46] <marcoceppi> pip 9.0 i using lsb_release
[18:46] <marcoceppi> ugh, I hate software
[18:46] <cory_fu> It is using the venv pip correctly.  I don't understand why lsb_release would fail
[18:46] <marcoceppi> because it's a sap
[18:46] <marcoceppi> snap*
[18:46] <cory_fu> Snaps can't see what system they're running on?
[18:47] <marcoceppi> no
[18:47] <marcoceppi> it's confined. /etc/lsb-release just doesn't exist (really, practically) for snaps
[18:47] <marcoceppi> why does pip need to query lsb_release
[18:47] <cory_fu> I have no idea
[18:47]  * marcoceppi angrily digs into code
[18:56] <marcoceppi> cory_fu: so, it's just doing distro detection, which, whatever
[18:56] <marcoceppi> I'll update the snap, angrily
[18:57] <cory_fu> marcoceppi: How can you work around that in the snap?
[18:58] <marcoceppi> cory_fu: ANGRILY
[18:58] <marcoceppi> not sure, but I'm going to try
[19:15] <MotherDuckingNew> Salutations.
[19:16] <MotherDuckingNew> I was following THIS video tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxvCkPnC53U, but it seems he already has some clouds set up on his first video, so I can't really follow along, since I have zero clouds set up. What's a really good beginner tutorial on juju?
[19:19] <MotherDuckingNew> p-please reply guys. :3
[19:34] <tvansteenburgh> MotherDuckingNew: https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/getting-started
[19:57] <andrey-mp> Hi! I have a question about bundles. Is it right place to ask it?
[19:59] <skay_> I am trying to debug hooks. I don't have the commands listed here, https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/developer-debugging#debugging-reactive
[19:59] <skay_> did I not install everything?
[20:04] <cory_fu> skay_: Those commands must be run on the deployed unit, in a hook context, and will only be available if your charm is reactive.  Also, if your charm specifies use_venv in layer.yaml, then you will have to activate the venv from /var/lib/juju/agents/unit-<app>-X/.venv/bin/activate
[20:05] <cory_fu> skay_: So, the main two questions are: Are you in a debug-hooks session, and does your charm use_venv?
[20:05] <skay_> cory_fu: hi, I started off by running juju dhx, which starts up tmux then eventually drops me to a window for the hook
[20:06] <skay_> cory_fu: my charm doesn't use venv, I wonder if that would be helpful?
[20:06] <cory_fu> Ok, good, so you're already in a debug-hooks session
[20:06] <skay_> cory_fu: do I have to do anything special when I've got a charm with layers? I'm not clear from reading the docs
[20:06] <cory_fu> skay_: It's recommended for subordinate charms, and it is probably better for all charms but does add a step when debugging hte charms
[20:07] <cory_fu> skay_: Nothing other than building the charm with `charm build`.  Can you point me to, or pastebin your layer.yaml file?
[20:08] <cory_fu> The only other thing I can think of is that maybe you forgot to add 'layer:basic' to your includes: list
[20:08] <andrey-mp> question about bundle: In juju 1.25 I can use prepared machines for bundle. But Juju 2.0 ignores created machines even they have same "names". Is it a bug?
[20:09] <rick_h> andrey-mp: no, it's a difference in the built in bundle deploy vs the deployer tool
[20:09] <rick_h> andrey-mp: the goal of the built in bundle deploy is to use bundles that are portable for all users and to leave it to the deployer to do special case things that only work locally
[20:11] <skay_> cory_fu: done
[20:11] <andrey-mp> rick_h: thank you for answer. I made this solution because bundle didn't support disks for machines. Is it possible to specify disks for each machine in 2.0?
[20:11] <cory_fu> skay_: That seems fine.  You should be able to run charms.reactive from the command line in your dhx session.  What do you get when you type that?
[20:13] <skay_> cory_fu: I get 'command not found' https://paste.ubuntu.com/23477174/
[20:14] <skay_> cory_fu: perhaps I missed something when building my charm?
[20:15] <cory_fu> skay_: That's very strange.  Check the wheelhouse/ directory in the built charm and see if it has the charms.reactive wheel in there
[20:16] <skay_> cory_fu: I do not see a wheelhouse directory (I didn't build this one with a venv enabled)
[20:17] <skay_> cory_fu: where would a wheelhouse directory go, or is it only around when someone uses a venv
[20:21] <cory_fu> skay_: When you do `charm build`, one of the first lines output by that command says what directory it's building into.  The wheelhouse directory will be there.  Alternatively, it will be on the deployed unit in /var/lib/juju/agents/unit-<app>-X/charm/wheelhouse
[20:22] <skay_> cory_fu: it's not in /var/lib/juju/agents/unit-<app>-X/charm/wheelhouse
[20:22] <skay_> cory_fu: I'm going to rebuild
[20:24] <skay_> (I can't remember what to put in metadata.yaml to use a venv and I don't remember where the docs are for valid metadata entries)
[20:24] <lazyPower> skay_ - its layer.yaml, virtualenv: true  as a layer option
[20:25] <lazyPower> https://github.com/juju-solutions/layer-basic#layer-configuration - to anyone following along at home
[20:25] <skay_> lazyPower: thanks, that was driving me to distraction
[20:25] <lazyPower> np skay_  :)
[20:36] <skay_> thnks lazyPower and cory_fu. I've rebuilt my charm, and I have access to the commands I didn't have before (and I also am using a venv now)
[20:47] <lazyPower> \o/ nice
[21:12] <brandor5> Hello everyone: quick question, how can i map a juju machine to the maas system it lives on?
[21:22] <brandor5> anyone?
[21:22] <marcoceppi> brandor5: in Juju, it lists the instance-id, which is the ID for the MAAS node
[21:23] <brandor5> marcoceppi: oh, i wasn't aware. thanks !
[21:23] <marcoceppi> np!
[21:51] <MotherDuckingNew> I'm feeling kind of nervous and jittery. Can someone tell me everything will be alright?
[21:54] <Walex> MotherDuckingNew: difficult to do that in the #Juju channel :-)
[21:55]  * rick_h passes juju juice around for calming effect
[21:55] <Walex> but most things will be allright
[22:11] <skay_> I'm unable to install snap with the snap-layer. it fails on grabbing ubuntu-core
[22:11] <skay_> systemctl pastebin https://paste.ubuntu.com/23477593/
[22:11] <skay_> journalctl pastebin https://paste.ubuntu.com/23477594/
[22:12] <skay_> I'm trying to install a snap via  resource file
[22:13] <skay_> it failed, then I started up a debug session and tried running a snap install command directly to see the output
[22:17] <skay_> it's actually called layer-snap https://github.com/stub42/layer-snap
[22:18] <skay_> stub: hi, have you seen a problem where someone is unable to install ubuntu-core when trying to install a snap?


[15:21] <lkhn> I want to set static ip with the meta-data file on the NoCloud datastore but workaroung is not wotking on RHEL 8.4: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html-single/configuring_and_managing_cloud-init_for_rhel_8/index
[15:21] <lkhn> Section: 3.9. Setting up a static networking configuration with cloud-init
[15:22] <lkhn> RHEL 7 version of this page is pointing https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1225922 bug here.
[15:24] <lkhn> It seems bootcmd module at the end is not executing at all. I need to ifup eth0 manually.
[15:45] <lkhn> Current Workaround:  "bootcmd: ifdown eth0, ifup eth0 " in User-Data file. If you get any idea please, let me know.


[09:07] <Monona> How do I temporarily end package manager updates during audio sessions?
[09:13] <ailo> Monona: You should disable any automatic updates. Have you done this?
[09:16] <Monona> ailo: I'm on Hardy for my desktop, just installed Lucid on my laptop.
[09:19] <Monona> I don't know how to do that for either.
[09:19] <ailo> Cant say for sure what steps are required :(, but at least try unchecking everything dealing with automatic updates in "Update Manager -> Settings.
[09:19] <ailo> Hopefully this should be enough.
[09:20] <Monona> Easy enough to do. :)
[09:22] <Monona> The realtime kernel in Lucid isn't working well with jack.  Is there some known problem, or do I just need to troubleshoot?
[09:22] <ailo> Monona: What seems to be your problem?
[09:24] <ailo> I'm not on Lucid Myself, since 1/2 year, so I don't have the fresh experience. Did you try aboganis ppa https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid?
[09:25] <ailo> I mean: https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid
[09:25] <Monona> Get error messages when jack's in realtime and it won't start.  Kernel is 2.6.31-11-rt
[09:25] <ailo> Try aboganis kernel instead. See where that takes you..
[09:25] <Monona> No, I had seen some other PPA also.  What is PPA, exactly?  Source for software that's not in the repositories, right?
[09:26] <Monona> Ah, better rt kernel there?
[09:26] <ailo> It's an Ubuntu realtime kernel, but not in the main repo.
[09:26] <ailo> Used to be
[09:27] <Monona> I'm trying a work around with my MAudio Ozone now, and it seems to work.  Just upgraded to Lucid from Hardy yesterday, and still working out the whatnots.
[09:27] <ailo> PPA is usually a way for some software to be able to distribute a fresh update on the program, or a development version, without having to build it from source.
[09:28] <Monona> Took me awhile to get everything working on Hardy, so I've been biding my time.
[09:28] <ailo> Monona: I would think Lucid is the best way to go for now.
[09:28] <Monona> I just have to add the PPA to my available repositories, right?
[09:29] <ailo> Yeah. You can do it from Synaptic.
[09:30] <ailo> Let me know if it works for you. I haven't tried that myself. Do you have a nvidia or ATI graphics?
[09:30] <Monona> Alright.  I've done that before, from the command line.
[09:30] <ailo> Monona: the way to do it might have changed, but perhaps the old way still works?
[09:31] <Monona> nvidia on the desktop.  Haven't even tried to get that working since I played with it in Hardy and couldn't boot up.  Don't really need high end graphics, anyways.
[09:32] <Monona> Yeah, I'm going to add the PPA on the laptop.  Might hang out with the kernel I've got for now, but it's good to know where another option is.
[09:32] <ailo> Otherwise, just copy the line deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/abogani/ppa/ubuntu lucid main , and place it in "Synaptic Package Manager -> Settings -> Repositories -> Other software -> Add"
[09:33] <ailo> It should start with deb ... :)
[09:33] <ailo> Nvidia should work, though rt kernels have often made that hard.
[09:34] <Monona> Rather have rt kernel than Nvidia, if it comes down to it.
[09:35] <ailo> Were you able to add it?
[09:37] <Monona> For now, I want the audio out from the ozone, since it's got a better soundcard than my laptop.  I'm trying to get a working setup for some jams tomorrow, so I'm going to spend some time tweaking it later.
[09:38] <ailo> Monona: What type of device is that?
[09:39] <ailo> M-audio midi board?
[09:39] <Monona> Yeah, little two octave deal.
[09:39] <ailo> Ah, it has audio too.
[09:39] <Monona> Yup.
[09:40] <ailo> Were you able to add the PPA?
[09:40] <Monona> I'm going to try to run that from my laptop, with the audio out into the audio box on my desktop.
[09:40] <ailo> This is the link to the page, if not: https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid
[09:42] <Monona> Here, let's see...
[09:42] <ailo> Monona: So you use one machine solely as an instrument?
[09:47] <Monona> Trying a new setup, yeah.
[09:47] <Monona> Laptop solely for puredata, then recording into ardour on desktop.
[09:48] <ailo> Puredata is my first choice for most things these days..
[09:49] <Monona> Yup.  I'm still feeling my way around it, but I've gotten some good sounds with taking apart samples.
[09:50] <Monona> I'd like to get some realtime processing on instruments and mics next.
[09:51] <ailo> Monona: Only tried jack-rack a little bit, but use puredata for all of that now. Reverbs and good compression might be a bit hard, but luckily for me, that is not as important.
[09:52] <Monona> Jack-rack is what I'm using now.
[09:52] <Monona> Seems like puredata could get real interesting.
[09:52] <Monona> What do you do to the incoming audio in pd?
[09:52] <Monona> BTW, the PPA added.
[09:53] <ailo> For control, puredata is hard to replace. For the actual effects, easier to do with plugins, than with puredata, I suspect.
[09:53] <Monona> Control as in what?
[09:55] <ailo> Controlling multiple parameters, like whatever you want with puredata. You can either use midi, audio or graphics to control either midi, audio or graphics.
[09:55] <Monona> Also, the PPA in this thread has Abogani's rtkernel.
[09:56] <ailo> Monona: That's the one.
[09:56] <Monona> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1350304&highlight=music+ppa+lucid
[09:56] <Monona> And a bunch of stuff.
[09:56] <Monona> I've mostly used it for audio controlled by midi.  Haven't gotten into GEM yet.
[09:57] <ailo> Right. Falk uses the same kernel as I proposed. Namely, abogani's.
[10:17] <Monona> Ah, nice.
[10:17] <Monona> Setup working a-ok.
[10:26] <ailo> Monona: Did you try installing the nvidia driver?
[10:27] <Monona> Nah, I don't feel like messing with that tonight.
[10:28] <ailo> Monona: Well, let us know if you do, and it didn't work.
[10:28] <Monona> Things are working currently.  I'll give it a day or two before I break it again. :)
[10:29] <Monona> Yeah, I'm stoked with the setup now.  I'll have to try that PPA as well.  Lucid seems to work pretty well, with some tweaking.
[10:29] <ailo> Monona: Usually, if you install the driver while on the rt kernel, it should work on the rt kernel at least (abogani's ppa includes a nvidia driver).
[10:31] <Monona> Good to know.  I'm going to get everything worked out on the laptop before I upgrade the desktop and try Nvidia.  Will that increase my performance for things like vimeo, etc?
[10:33] <ailo> Monona: It should make 3d stuff possible. Somethings, like Flash, I think are the same. You'll notice that the desktop does less frames/time. Don't know any hard stuff, though.
[10:34] <Monona> Yeah, I'm pretty much 2d these days.