[00:00] <mlester> yup
[00:00] <Odd-rationale> is it a good idea to suggest that a person move his/her feature request to brainstorm?
[00:00] <mlester> no luck there
[00:00] <mlester> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=879360
[00:00] <mlester> thats the thread
[00:01] <mrooney> Odd-rationale: when you speak of a feature request, are you speaking of a wishlisted bug report on launchpad?
[00:01] <Odd-rationale> mrooney: more like one that should be listed as wishlist...
[00:01] <Odd-rationale> but yes
[00:06] <mrooney> Odd-rationale: which specific bug report are you referring to?
[00:07] <Odd-rationale> mrooney: well, i cam across this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/254173
[00:08] <Odd-rationale> i want him to put it in brainstorm so that i can vote it down... :P
[00:13] <mlester> man this is ridiculous I am been trying to fix this for over a week now
[00:14] <mlester> -cli
[00:14] <mlester> sorry wrong window
[00:15] <mlester> well thanks for trying to help
[00:15] <greg-g> mlester: paste your sources.list somewhere along with any other files in the sources.list.d directory
[00:16] <greg-g> paste.ubuntu.com works
[00:16] <mlester> ok
[00:18] <mlester> http://paste.ubuntu.com/35694/  thats my sources.list
[00:19] <mlester> amd there is nothing in the sources.list.d directory
[00:19] <bdmurray> mlester: some log files like /var/log/apt.log would help
[00:20] <mlester> ok I get those too
[00:22] <mlester> I dont seem to have the log file and in /var/log/apt/term.log
[00:22] <mlester> there is nothing in there
[00:23] <mlester> do u guys want to see my syslog
[00:24] <bdmurray> perhaps the output of 'sudo apt-get update' in a terminal would help
[00:24] <mlester> ok
[00:26] <mlester> http://paste.ubuntu.com/35695/
[00:38] <mlester> so is it safe to report a bug
[00:38] <mlester> and if so how would I report this I have never reported a bug report
[00:45] <mlester> oh well thanks for trying to help
[02:34] <anakron> HI all!
[02:35] <schakrava> hey
[02:47] <anakron> mrooney
[02:49] <mrooney> anakron: hi!
[02:49] <anakron> Im Gabriel Ruiz
[02:50] <mrooney> hm yes please poke my memory as to why I know that name
[02:50] <anakron> XD
[02:50] <anakron> i sent a email to ubuntu-bugsquad
[02:51] <anakron> reason: interview with Brian Murray
[02:51] <anakron> i need you to transcribe it
[02:51] <anakron> remember?
[02:51] <mrooney> anakron: ahh yes yes, sorry
[02:51] <mrooney> now I remember :)
[02:51] <anakron> xD
[02:52] <mrooney> I was playing around with the `transcriber` package in Ubuntu today
[02:52] <mrooney> I couldn't really figure anything out
[02:55] <anakron> mm ok
[02:55] <mrooney> I will play around with it more or just do it the "hard" way
[02:55] <anakron> yeaha
[02:55] <mrooney> sounds like someone has done the first quarter, that's nice
[02:55] <anakron> ill try to do it in hardy way too
[02:56] <anakron> cause we need to show it at least tommow
[02:56] <anakron> tomorrow
[02:56] <mrooney> oh, what does "at least tomorrow" mean
[02:56] <mrooney> at the latest?
[02:56] <anakron> xD
[02:56] <anakron> im so nervous xD
[02:58] <anakron> We must to do it fast
[02:58] <anakron> cause Tomorrow(for me) will be Ubuntu Global Bug Jam
[04:08] <blahdeblah-lap> Hi.  I've got totem segfaulting on startup in the latest hardy release.  I can't see any obvious matches for it in launchpad.
[04:08] <blahdeblah-lap> What do i need to do - just log a new bug in launchpad?
[04:34] <m_newton> Ok... great news... i got a buddy to teach python .... Sunday, August 10 at 12:00 PM EST ##beginners-help -- Python 101 {}^^^ it will be hands on help   |||Join all if u want to learn |||spread the word
[05:51] <st33med> night all
[05:52] <st33med> and remember, My tutoring for python is on Sunday on ##beginners classroom at noon EST
[06:28] <tuxmaniac> good morning
[06:41] <tuxmaniac> hello all. I am triaging bug 144856 and find that the gnumeric in Hardy has these keyboard accelerators. For.e.g Pressing "Alt + S" saves the file. So can we close the isusue or ask the OP to check in Hardy and wait until he reverts back to close it?
[07:15] <techno_freak> tuxmaniac, yes, ask him to check that on Hardy, put the bug as incomplete
[07:46] <willwill> BINGO!
[07:47] <tuxmaniac> bloody hell for some reson this bingo card is not generating for me. May be I should file a bug and get one up ;)
[07:48] <techno_freak> BINGO!
[10:18] <techno_freak> ok, if a bug got fixed released in intrepid and not in hardy, what should be the bug status? fix-released?
[10:26] <persia> techno_freak: Yes, Fix Released.  If you think it's important enough to also fix in hardy, nominate it for hardy (which opens a new task, with a separate staus)
[10:27] <techno_freak> persia, can you check the latest comment in bug #243828? I closed it as fix released after asking it here a month ago.
[10:28] <techno_freak> it says "Nominated for Hardy"
[10:29] <Monk-e> bug 256277 can someone put this on wishlist for intrepid? thanks
[10:29] <persia> techno_freak: Is it true that without simplejson the application won't even start?
[10:30] <persia> Monk-e: Set to Wishlist
[10:30] <Monk-e> persia: I can't change status
[10:31] <Monk-e> A wiki page referred me to here to ask.
[10:31] <persia> Monk-e: Yes.  It is now set to Wishlist.  Refresh.
[10:31] <Monk-e> persia: thanks. :)
[10:32] <Monk-e> persia: how come I can't change status?
[10:33] <persia> Monk-e: It's a restricted permission, or we'd end up with too many critical bugs.  The bugcontrol team can change the status (and many are often here).
[10:33] <persia> If you've triaged a bunch of bugs, you can apply to join bugcontrol.
[10:33] <persia> (see the wiki page)
[10:33] <Monk-e> persia: thanks again. :) see ya
[10:36] <techno_freak> persia, the ganti googlecode page mentions no simplejson requirement
[10:36] <techno_freak> ganeti*
[10:37] <persia> techno_freak: Hmm.  I'm just not sure whether it needs the hardy task approved or not: I'm not tempted to increase the load on the SRU folk unless we know it is broken (but have no idea about ganeti )
[10:38] <techno_freak> hmm ok
[11:00] <wgrant> persia: By status you do mean importance, right?
[11:00] <techno_freak> wgrant, right, setting the importance of a bug
[11:22] <persia> wgrant: Err.  Yes.  Thank you.
[12:33] <anakron> HI all!!
[12:33] <anakron> its already Ubuntu global bug jum there in England?
[12:46] <steve555> Hi every one.
[12:50] <steve555> I found a bug with synaptic,It will download packages and install them for me,but after it has finished doing it for me,it will just hang when I try and use the close button.
[12:51] <steve555> So I have to issue the command with Konsole "sudo killall synaptic.I'm currently using Kubuntu Intrepid Ibex Alpha 3 to test it out.
[12:51] <steve555> Can anybody help me with this?
[13:00] <techno_freak> steve555, so you are using synaptic within KDE?
[13:00] <steve555> Yeah I am.
[13:06] <techno_freak> steve555, in Synaptic, after you get into the situation where you can't close the window, can you access the help menu? if so, try Help > Report a Problem
[13:06] <steve555> Ok Techno_freak,I'll give that a try.
[13:06] <techno_freak> steve555, as an additional note, the is an Adept package managed that comes with KDE which you can try instead
[13:06] <techno_freak> there*
[13:07] <techno_freak> manager*
[13:08] <steve555> I can't use Adept_Manager at the moment,as it is broken since Alpha 1.I'm just waiting for them to fix it eventually,as it is a known problem with it.#
[13:09] <techno_freak> steve555, oh you are using intrepid alpha, ok, didn't notice it before :)
[13:11] <persia> steve555: You might try aptitude, it's an ncurses UI only, but it's fairly resistant to problems.
[13:12] <steve555> No worries,I've just fired up synaptic,and downloaded a package called kgrab.It has downloaded and installed,but the Applying Changes dialogue is frozen and the main application is greyed out.I will try out the aptitude GUI,as I already use it thorugh Konsole.
[13:15] <dholbach> HAPPY GLOBALBUGJAM DAY!
[13:17] <steve555> A happy bugjam to you as well dholbach,Techno_Freak,I've just used konsloe with the earlier command to kill synaptic again.
[13:19] <techno_freak> dholbach, to you too! :)
[13:19] <dholbach> :-)
[13:26] <Hew> Hey guys, I'm trying to triage bug #252174 by getting a backtrace. Whenever gvfsd-trash dies, it gets spawned again within a few seconds. How can I find out which process is doing this? I need to stop it so I can run it with gdb.
[13:26] <dholbach> guys... use 5-a-day with a global-august-08-<city> tag, please! :)
[13:26] <dholbach> check this out: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/bugjam.png
[13:32] <anakron> Hi all
[13:38] <steve555> Hi anacron
[13:48] <Hew> If I'm getting ?? in a stacktrace, how do I work out which debug symbols I need?
[13:50] <dholbach> Hew: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[13:57] <Hew> dholbach: that doesn't say which packages to use, apart from the one for the program in question. I'm trying to get a complete stacktrace for gvfsd-trash; I have gvfs-backends-dbgsym, gvfs-dbgsym, gvfs-fuse-dbgsym, libdbus-1-3-dbgsym, and I'm still seeing the first two lines as ??
[14:00] <dholbach> did you restart gdb afterwards?
[14:06] <dholbach> hi warp10!
[14:19] <hggdh> Hew, also -- if you look to the right of the '??' lines, you should see what library/program it is in. Then it is just a question of finding the respective install package
[14:21] <Hew> dholbach: I'm catching the crash with apport atm, as gvfsd-crash seems to automatically start, and I have no idea how to stop it so I can run it in gdb. I'm just looking at the stacktrace section in apport.
[14:22] <hggdh> Hew, if it is an apport-generated trace, then you should have a crash file under /var/crash
[14:22] <dholbach> you can use apport-retrace then
[14:22] <hggdh> with a -g for gdb
[14:23] <dholbach> but I can't really remember how to use it, it's been a while
[14:23] <dholbach> but it's good stuff
[14:23] <hggdh> apport-retrace --help ;-)
[14:24] <Hew> yea, I've been looking at the .crash files, trying to add dbgsym packages and see if the ?? gets fixed up
[14:25] <Hew> http://paste.ubuntu.com/35846/ is part of the latest .crash I've got
[14:25] <dholbach> apport-retrace can download them for you
[14:25] <hggdh> you can have apport-retrace automagically add the -dbgsym
[14:25] <Hew> oh excellent, I'll check it out
[14:25] <Hew> thanks guys
[14:26] <hggdh> sudo apport-retrace -o new.crash /var/crash/_usr_whatever_etc
[14:26] <gnomefreak> i fied a bug on gvfs crash and IIRC apport retraced it fine
[14:26] <gnomefreak> filed
[14:27] <warp10> heya dholbach!
[14:27] <Hew> I'm working on bug #252174
[14:28] <gnomefreak> ah i marked it as a dupe
[14:29] <hggdh> hah! this is the one I opened...
[14:32] <hggdh> no, not me
[14:32] <hggdh> Hew, you still get the crash, with up-to-date gvfs?
[14:33] <Hew> hggdh: yes
[14:33] <Hew> I didn't realise I was still getting it, but I found out that if a .crash file already exists, it's just that apport doesn't bug you about it so I didn't notice
[14:37] <hggdh> do you have any ideas on how to reproduce?
[14:37] <Hew> hggdh: It seems to crash on startup most of the time
[14:37] <Hew> I'm able to reproduce it atm, which is why I'm trying to grab this stacktrace
[14:37] <Hew> argh, apport-retrace is telling me to install -dbgsym packages which don't exist though..
[14:38] <hggdh> disregard FTM, it will try to install all dbgsyms related to the packages even if they are not being directly used
[14:39] <Hew> oh, will it do it automatically if I run it as root?
[14:40] <Hew> one way to find out..
[14:40] <hggdh> yes
 sudo apport-retrace -o new.crash /var/crash/_usr_whatever_etc
[14:44] <Hew> yep, got all possible packages now, just run into a gpg issue so grabbing seb128's key
[14:48] <Hew> haha, it STILL has those ?? lines..
[14:48] <Hew> see http://paste.ubuntu.com/35846/
[14:49] <Hew> hggdh: do you know how I can resolve them, or if they're even relevant? (I'm a tracing noob)
[14:58] <mrooney> hmm, my class schedule is set up quite poorly for hug days
[14:59] <mrooney> the two days I have classes are Tuesdays and Thursdays
[15:05] <hggdh> Hew, well, you cannot, at least not automagically via apport
[15:06] <hggdh> most of the times, missing dbgsyms are caused by a brand new package version being put available. The dbgsym generation runs behind, and might take a while to catch up
[15:08] <hggdh> what apport-gtk runs, it list all packages related to the one failing (rdepends, I guess). Not all of them are directly related to the issue
[15:09] <hggdh> but apport-retrace will try to load dbgsyms for all...
[15:10] <hggdh> the only reall way to know if they are relevant for a specific crash is by looking at the BT, and checking the unresolved symbols ...
[15:10] <Hew> ok
[15:10] <persia> For ?? in apport retraces, it might be nice to determine for which library the dbgsym is corrupt.
[15:11] <Hew> I just saw the title of this crash I'm tracing, and it's actually a different issue haha, oh well
[15:11] <persia> Often a rebuild will generate proper dbgsyms, and if not, then it can be done with packaging changes.
[15:11] <hggdh> persia -- and ping pitti on them?
[15:11] <Hew> but hopefully I have the dbgsym packages in case I catch the crash again
[15:11] <persia> hggdh: No need: just file a bug on the package.  Tag it "bitesize packaging".
[15:11] <hggdh> thanks
[15:14] <mrooney> what is the proper wiki page for debugging kernel lockups? say, at login
[15:16] <persia> kernel lockup at *login*  That's odd.  Usually it's boot or something.
[15:16] <hggdh> mrooney, the current is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies
[15:16] <mrooney> persia: I assume it isn't just X since caps lock and magic sys req keys don't work, correct?
[15:17] <hggdh> mrooney, out of sheer dumb curiosity -- would you be running with the Radeon video driver?
[15:17] <persia> mrooney: X can eat the keyboard too: you might try running an sshd and seeing if you can get in that way.
[15:18] <persia> Alternately, it might be a graphics driver, but that usually hits at ?dm start.
[15:18] <mrooney> hggdh: I am using the restricted ati fglrx driver
[15:18] <mrooney> so, yes?
[15:18] <hggdh> k. I have found mesself with a X lockup, and this would happen on GTK and Radeon
[15:18] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies might help.
[15:18] <mrooney> persia: thanks
[15:19] <hggdh> since this is my laptop, I got really hit while on the road
[15:19] <hggdh> but ssh would still work
[15:19] <mrooney> hggdh: oh, interesting
[15:19] <mrooney> did you ever...fix it?
[15:19] <hggdh> could not, not on the road
[15:19] <hggdh> I moved temporarily to radeonhd, and this seemed to bypass
[15:19] <hggdh> ah yes, running KDE with *no* GTK applications seems to work also
[15:20] <hggdh> as soon as I am back home I will go back to it
[15:26] <hggdh> mrooney, another thing: when this happened, the only local option was a hard reboot (force power-off). Remotely I could stop X, but the keyboard would still be locked
[15:27] <mrooney> interesting; right now I am just hard rebooting as well when it happens
[15:27] <hggdh> another symptom was X eating up one and a half CPU
[15:27] <mrooney> I don't know if it is related but in a seemingly equally probable percent of the time (33-50%), it locks up at logOUT too, just leaving me at a completely black screen
[15:28] <mrooney> basically once I am logged in on this computer, I try to stay that way :)
[15:28] <hggdh> try SSHing in, if you have another system you can use
[15:34] <hggdh> Hew, at least one of the unresolved lines in the stacktrace is from libpthread -- libc. So I guess we could follow persia's suggestion to open a bug on libc, and tag it bitesize packaging
[15:36] <persia> heh.  libc is rarely bitesize :)  Are you sure it's not calling out again?
[15:36] <hggdh> :-)
[15:37] <hggdh> no, I am not... one of the addresses at the top (see http://paste.ubuntu.com/35846/) is a low address, perhaps kernel-related?
[15:37] <Hew> hggdh: libc6-dbg and libc6-dbgsym already exist, I'm not sure what requires packaging.
[15:37] <Hew> btw, I had -dbg installed, but apport-retrace removed it and installed -dbgsym instead
[15:38] <hggdh> that's OK, only one of them can stay installed
[15:38] <hggdh> the issue is libpthread is not resolving the symbols
[15:44] <persia> I'd like to propose a new tag for a class of bugs: is there a procedure for that, or do I just add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags ?
[15:46] <hggdh> persia, probably the best would be to email bug-control, and propose it here
[15:46] <persia> hggdh: Thanks.
[15:47] <crimsun> chuckf: will you guys be in an irc channel, too?
[15:47] <chuckf> crimsun, for a while, yeah
[15:47] <persia> Also, on the ?? : there's one low address, and then it bounces out again: it's the bounce out part that gets interesting.  Frame 3 is likely not so important, but without frame 0, it's hard to debug :/
[15:48] <hggdh> persia -- yes... and the address of the ) frame seems to be out of the code so far
[15:48] <persia> Err, Frame *2* is likely not so important
[15:49] <hggdh> s/\)/0/
[15:49] <persia> hggdh: Yeah: it's probably that the application is exposing a bug somewhere else (or is using the API in a maner other than that documented).  It's hard to tell from what we have.
[15:50] <hggdh> persia -- re. the new tag: if you think it will be good, go ahead and do it -- you could still send an email to the list explaining why
[15:51] <persia> hggdh: I've started using it already, but I'm sending a mail as you suggest.  Better to not annoy people :)
[15:51] <hggdh> well, I am not annoyed ;-)
[15:52] <persia> hggdh: Surely, but I still remember the fuss about people wishlisting sync bugs.  I'd rather be careful.  Also, the mail helps introduce it so that people start to use the tag.
[15:53] <hggdh> yes, this is why I suggested it (and I also remember the fuss...)
[16:30] <chuckf> under bugs.launchpad.net when you search a package like 'seahorse' I get 9 results that are mostly unknown/new. But when I get the bug itself those are the status' for the upstream project and the ubuntu distro is a different satus.
[16:30] <hggdh> chuckf, and?
[16:30] <chuckf> Is there a way to change what I see on that first list to reflect the ubuntu status rather than upstream?
[16:31] <persia> chuckf: How are you seeing the list?
[16:31] <chuckf> go to bugs.launchpad.net and search seahorse
[16:31] <persia> You might want https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse/+bugs
[16:31] <persia> That probably takes you to https://launchpad.net/seahorse/+bugs
[16:32] <chuckf> persia, that's it, thanks
[16:33] <hggdh> (it is worth noting this is highly confusing for the new user)
[16:33] <persia> hggdh: Confusing enough to have been filed as a bug?  I've been doing it too long to notice the confusion, but if you're able to support the case, filing a bug against Malone might help.
[16:35] <chuckf> persia, is there a way to search a package and get to that?
[16:37] <hggdh> persia, I am not sure this is a Malone bug... if you look at the Overview on https://launchpad.net/seahorse/+bugs, you will notice this is an old project (last updated for Edgy)
[16:38] <hggdh> what we might need to do is some sort of cleanup. Also, the bugs reported there should probably have been reported against ./ubuntu/+source/seahorse instead
[16:39] <dholbach> hey chuckf
[16:40] <persia> hggdh: Maybe.  I think that it's a bug that we need to redefine the upstream association for each source package each release.  That's just *way* too much work for far too little benefit.
[16:40] <persia> If that bug gets fixed, I'd be willing to associate upstream links again.
[16:40] <chuckf> hey there dholbach
[16:58] <effie_jayx> Hey all, cheers from venezuela,  I was asked about this bughttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/almanah/+bug/256347
[17:00] <effie_jayx> I am a bit puzzled... this package was done someone, and it appears as if the a mantainer is claiming he mantains the pacakge
[17:01] <dholbach> effie_jayx: if you check out the patch linked in the bug report, you will notice that the Original-Maintainer was changed to somebody else
[17:01] <dholbach> -Maintainer: Angel Abad (Ikusnet SLL<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:01] <dholbach> +XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Stefan Ebner<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:01] <dholbach> that's a mistake
[17:01] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  ahhh cool
[17:01] <dholbach> effie_jayx: and sebner is on it
[17:01] <dholbach> so it's all good
[17:01] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  great
[17:02] <blastermaster_> saludos
[17:02] <sebner> dholbach: yes, sir :)
[17:02] <dholbach> :-)
[17:03] <effie_jayx> dholbach, thanks for the pair of eyes there :D
[17:03] <effie_jayx> blastermaster_, epa,
[17:03] <dropknee_> oye es aqui o no Blaster?
[17:03] <dholbach> effie_jayx: np
[17:03] <persia> effie_jayx: dholbach: Just as background, that package history is complex: the version in Ubuntu came from REVU prior to the preparation of the version in Debian, and there has been no merge or sync.
[17:04] <dholbach> ah ok
[17:04] <dholbach> it's just what I could guess from looking at it :)
[17:04] <persia> Yeah.  That "patch from ubuntu" is a little misleading, and incredibly huge.  I'm not sure where the impression was created that one was based on another.
[17:05] <effie_jayx> persia,  I see
[17:06] <effie_jayx> C3s4r,  hey C3s4r :)
[17:06] <C3s4r> effie_jayx ;)
[17:06] <C3s4r> effie_jayx bueno ya hice lo que tenia que hacer
[17:06] <effie_jayx> persia,  so what is the solution then ?
[17:07] <C3s4r> effie_jayx sigo buscando mas bugs
[17:08]  * pedro_ hugs the whole channel
[17:08] <pedro_> hello guys, everybody enjoying the GBJ ?
[17:08] <effie_jayx> pedro_, yep... in maracaibo we are meeting later today
[17:08] <effie_jayx> but we are already ircing the basics
[17:09] <pedro_> effie_jayx: nice!, yeah almost the same here at Chile ;-)
[17:09] <pedro_> effie_jayx: remember to use 5-a-day to see your job reflected here: http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/
[17:10] <dholbach> pedro_: absolutely :)
[17:10] <dholbach> pedro_: and here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/bugjam.png :-)
[17:10] <effie_jayx> pedro_, I haven't submited any yet ;), I am working on my 5 first
[17:10] <pedro_> yay!!
[17:10] <effie_jayx> I am trying to reproduce a bug that C3s4r reported
[17:11] <persia> effie_jayx: The Ubuntu packager and the new Debian Maintainer will coordinate, and collaborate to take the best of each for a sync.
[17:12] <effie_jayx> persia,  ahh cool
[17:16]  * yuriy is looking for a good bug to use as an example
[17:16] <effie_jayx> yuriy, example for?
[17:16] <yuriy> for teaching people at bug jam
[17:17]  * effie_jayx is looking for bugs as well
[17:19] <dholbach> pick a few Triaged bugs of a package that people know well
[17:23] <chuckf> is staging.lp.net a fair place to use for examples?
[17:30] <tuxmaniac> hi. Some of these compiz bugs are related to a particular applications behaviour (e.g. firefox) when compiz is turned on. This misbehaviour is not seen when it is off. So is this a firefox bug or compiz assignment is correct?
[17:30] <tuxmaniac> hope I made myself clear
[17:41] <effie_jayx> tuxmaniac,  I understand your wording ;)
[17:42] <effie_jayx> tuxmaniac,  however I think it is compiz related..., Firefox for example would not respond at times.. but compiz eanbles the no response effect and that doesn't help either
[17:42] <tuxmaniac> effie_jayx: wwell I had that doubt, because when I read it again, I banged myself for having such bad english :-)
[17:56]  * greg-g waves from Michigan
[17:56]  * RoAkSoAx waves from Perú :D
[17:56]  * greg-g really waves from California, but I am representing Michigan today :)
[17:58]  * RoAkSoAx really waves from Arequipa, but the Peruvian Bug Jam is done in Lima, that Peruvian City capital :P
[17:58] <greg-g> cool
[17:58] <Odd-rationale> Doesn't xubuntu use the gnome-power-manager as well?
[17:59] <RoAkSoAx> :=)
[17:59] <xander21c> Hello ;) Peru getting ready
[18:02]  * tuxmaniac waves from India. Its already 1 day over here :-)
[18:12] <effie_jayx> hehehee, It feels like open day for the olympics...
[18:12] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[18:17] <doctormo> Hello all
[18:17] <nxvl> peru reporting!
[18:17] <doctormo> Ubuntu-us-ma also reporting ;-)
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, was about time :P
[18:18] <nxvl> i was fighting with the network
[18:18] <nxvl> :P
[18:18] <Yasumoto> bright and sunny here in california :)
[18:18] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, hahaha yeah xander21c mentioned something about that
[18:18] <tuxmaniac> aah teh americas have awakened. India is reaching the fag end of the day
[18:20] <RoAkSoAx> indeed
[18:21] <effie_jayx> that makes it better then :D
[18:21] <effie_jayx> we can work 24 hours
[18:22] <persia> What?  A global day is 49 hours long.  No shirking!
[18:22] <nxvl> persia: that's why it's 2 day long jam
[18:27] <persia> Two global days is 73 hours :p
[18:28] <nxvl> 8:D
[18:28] <nxvl> persia: a lot of bug work
[18:34] <persia> nxvl: That's why we're here.
[18:35] <persia> Now we just need to get complete workflow: New -> Confirmed, Confirmed -> Triaged, Triaged -> In Progress, In-Progress -> Fix Released for as many as possible.
[18:35] <persia> (but it's not the right time on this side of the world now)
[18:35] <nxvl> heh
[18:36] <nxvl> persia: it's late out there
[18:38] <chuckf> cool, one of our guys reported a bug in the last hour and he's already been notified it's being worked on:)
[18:38] <tuxmaniac> 3 of the bugs I have triaged, the OPs have reported back that it isnt seen anymore and one can close it :d
[18:39] <chuckf> now my question, how does the 5-a-day-applet work in hardy? I can't seem to get it running
[18:39] <tuxmaniac> chuckf: use the CLI. its much simpler
[18:39] <tuxmaniac> or I feel more comfortable with it
[18:39] <nxvl> chuckf: just drag and drop your bug tabs into it
[18:39] <chuckf> nxvl, how do I start it?
[18:40] <Odd-rationale> right-click panel --> add to panel ?
[18:40] <chuckf> I ran the install via the wiki page instructions and it shows installed
[18:40] <chuckf> ah, there it is
[18:41] <chuckf> it wasn't showing up before
[18:43] <techno_freak> chuckf, the applet been working fine for me till now, a bit easier to add to my 5-a-day
[18:44] <chuckf> I don't know if I didn't wait long enough or what, but I didn't see it in the add to panel menu until just now, some time after installing it
[18:48] <persia> chuckf: There's a refresh bug with applet installation: it's often easiest to log out and log in again after installing applet packages (although there is another way to do it, I don't know it)
[18:50] <techno_freak> persia, regarding bug 243828, got reply that python-simplejson is very much a dependency for ganeti and would like to update the package in hardy (the latest is available with simplejson dependency in intrepid)
[18:50] <nxvl> join the dholbach huggers team: https://edge.launchpad.net/~dholbach-huggers
[18:50] <chuckf> persia, yeah I was probably being too impatient
[18:51] <techno_freak> nxvl, approve me ;)
[18:51] <pedro_> nxvl: why is the team moderated?
[18:52] <persia> techno_freak: OK.  Approving nomination.  Please appropriately set the tasks.
[18:52] <nxvl> pedro_: because i create it at 2 am, opened now
[18:52] <pedro_> nxvl: alright, thanks ;-)
[18:52] <tuxmaniac> me me me . I already commented on your blog with a +1
[18:52] <tuxmaniac> nxvl: ^
[18:53] <techno_freak> persia, what should i do for "appropriately set the tasks"? :)
[18:53] <neosergio> o/ from peru
[18:53] <nxvl> pedro_: you probably want to join the ~we-love-pitti team too
[18:53] <nxvl> :P
[18:53] <persia> techno_freak: Well, intrepid is Fix Released.  You'll want to triage the Hardy task as you would for any possible stable update.
[18:53] <persia> !sru
[18:54] <techno_freak> persia, ok, will check that out
[18:54] <nxvl> pedro_: https://edge.launchpad.net/~we-love-pitti
[18:54] <pedro_> nxvl: haha saw it the other day, pitti didn't even know about it :-P
[18:55] <nxvl> pedro_: yes, he knows :D
[18:55] <nxvl> pedro_: he told me: don't post about it it's to emabaring how it is now
[18:55]  * nxvl searchs logs
[18:55] <pedro_> lol!
[18:56] <manishtech> I have just installed intrepid,But first time since 6.06, my touchpad vertical scroll doesnt work out of box.. Any guidance?
[18:56] <persia> techno_freak: Ask if you have questions (but I've just finished the thing I'm staying up for, so probably won't be be the person who answers)
[18:56] <techno_freak> persia, ok :)
[18:57] <nxvl> pedro_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/06/%23ubuntu-devel.html <- 07:50
[18:57] <persia> manishtech: wait: the new input for the new X is still under heavy adjustment.
[18:57] <manishtech> Has anyone faced any problems with touchpad in 8.10?
[18:57] <manishtech> persia: thanks... how long will i have to wait :D
[18:58] <persia> manishtech: Weeks maybe.
[18:58] <alemcito> lç
[18:58] <manishtech> persia: In next Alpha release can i expect it to be in? Still by that time, any tweaks to make it running?
[18:58] <pedro_> nxvl: ah yeah, that was last week i was referring to a few more days ago, but yeah :-P
[18:59] <pedro_> ubuntu people is so nice
[18:59] <nxvl> pedro_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/08/%23ubuntu-devel.html <- 08:03
[18:59] <nxvl> pedro_: no, that was 4 days ago
[18:59] <pedro_> nxvl: is diego already there at the university ?
[18:59] <persia> manishtech: I'm not sure if it will make the next Alpha.  It ought be sorted by FeatureFreeze.
[19:00] <nxvl> pedro_: not, the lazy it's on his way
[19:01] <pedro_> slacker :-P
[19:02] <nxvl> pedro_: yep
[19:11] <greg-g> wow, the new/nopackage bugs will go below 2000 before we are done this weekend
[19:20] <pwnguin> crowdsourcing ftw
[19:22] <greg-g> yep
[19:23] <pwnguin> ive been thinking about setting up a crowdsourcing blog like site for various things
[19:32] <_stink_> i'm trying to use the 5-a-day command line thing on gutsy... it complains that "ValueError: User 'ajlincoln' not found in launchpad", but ajlincoln is my launchpad ID (i'm signed in right now). any advice?
[19:33] <pwnguin> spell check?
[19:33] <pwnguin> _stink_: gimma a link to your lp profile
[19:33] <_stink_> never mind. figured it out. i'm *dumb*
[19:34] <greg-g> GO MICHIGAN! ;)
[19:34] <_stink_> yay! we da bst
[19:35] <greg-g> werd
[19:36] <tuxmaniac> can someone check and see whether bug 254740 is reproducible?
[19:38] <greg-g> oo, gcalc bugs, I like them
[19:38] <nellery> hi everyone
[19:40] <greg-g> tuxmaniac: I can't reproduce the issue
[19:40] <Flannel> greg-g: I can
[19:40] <techno_freak> tuxmaniac, me too, can't reproduce, reverse conversion works fine
[19:40] <Flannel> yeah, 512000d converts to 7D000h which converts back to 512000d (should be
[19:40] <tuxmaniac> I meddled with quit a few options. I just cant figur out how it gets reproduced for the OP :S
[19:41] <greg-g> if the reporter still has an issue ask for a detailed steps to reproduce
[19:41] <Flannel> oh wait
[19:41] <Flannel> 512000 is 7d000.  How coincidental.
[19:41] <tuxmaniac> what is coincidental in that?
[19:42] <tuxmaniac> greg-g: I have done that already. lets wait and see
[19:43] <greg-g> that is like saying 2 is 10 is coincidental ;)
[19:43] <anakron> HI ALl
[19:43] <greg-g> hello
[19:43] <anakron> Hi All
[19:45] <greg-g> anyone know the infamous "copy paste doesn't work after you close the original application" bug?
[19:45] <greg-g> don't spend too much time trying to find it, not worth it
[19:46] <greg-g> found it, brainstorm was useful for somethign!
[19:46] <greg-g> bug 106644
[19:54] <nxvl> where is the list of standard answers for the bugs?
[19:55] <jpds> nxvl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[19:56]  * nxvl HUGS jpds
[19:56]  * jpds abraza nxvl
[19:58] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[19:58] <jpds> RoAkSoAx: Solo estas celoso.
[19:59] <RoAkSoAx> jpds, not really.. :P
[20:00] <RoAkSoAx> jpds,  no soy de "abracitos" :P xD
[20:00] <nxvl> plz!
[20:00] <nxvl> we are huggie developers
[20:00] <jpds> RoAkSoAx: Hugs from a FUNDAMENTAL part of Ubuntu development.
[20:00] <nxvl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzGIaZcGcM
[20:01] <RoAkSoAx> hahah i know i know, nxvl loves to hug
[20:01] <RoAkSoAx> hahaha
[20:51] <emma> What is the difference between the package rhythmbox and the package rhythmbox-applet ?
[20:51] <Traveler2> I think bug # Bug 256445 should be set to wishlist
[20:53] <pedro_> emma: those are different projects, rhythmbox is the whole music management program while the rhythmbox applet (which is not officially part of the rhythmbox project) is just an applet for controlling rhythmbox, change the song and so on
[20:53] <emma> Okay thanks pedro
[20:53] <pedro_> you're welcome
[21:01] <Odd-rationale> Is there a way to find out who contributed to a certain 5-a-day tag? or how many people contributed?
[21:15] <jcastro> pedro_: the stock reply that tells people to submit to brainstorm needs to be fleshed out better I think
[21:16] <jcastro> I've ran into two bugs where someone was told to go to brainstorm, they submit in brainstorm and then get told to submit it in launchpad.
[21:16] <Odd-rationale> lol
[21:16] <crimsun> I was under the impression that brainstorm isn't for bugs.
[21:17] <Odd-rationale> i thought people should submit there "wishlist" items to brainstorm
[21:17] <jcastro> it isn't for bugs
[21:17] <emma> Is there any general package that's most likely for problems of the form: I have some key on my keyboard that doesn't work right
[21:17] <crimsun> simple, get people to stop submitting feature requests and work on bugs instead!  *cackle*
[21:18] <jcastro> crimsun: heh, if only. :)
[21:18] <crimsun> emma: linux or hal-info, among others
[21:19] <effie_jayx> bbl
[21:20] <Odd-rationale> emma: sometimes X
[21:20] <Odd-rationale> sometimes the keyboard...
[21:25] <emma> Could an expert give their advice about which package this one affects -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/251806
[21:26] <emma> Let me rephrase that.. :)
[21:27] <emma> Could someone who knows more than me (any of you) give their advice about which package this one affects -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/251806
[21:31] <pedro_> jcastro: blaah yeah just saw the evince bug (bug 256445), the title in the response page tend to confuse people i think, i'll take a look to it
[21:32] <emma> How can something be 'wishlist confirmed' ?
[21:32] <emma> "I tried it too and I found this person really does wish to have this feature"
[21:33] <greg-g> basically, yes, it isn't availabel at this time (confirmed by someone) then a triager can set it to wishlist
[21:33] <pedro_> well yeah, if you think it's worth to be Wishlist, it's ok to mark it as confirmed
[21:33] <pedro_> btw greg-g, please mark it as triaged if you sent it upstream, thanks ;-)
[21:34] <nxvl> pedro_: diego is already here
[21:34] <greg-g> pedro_: will do, I forget that since I don't forward that often ;)
[21:34] <nxvl> pedro_: fighting with the network as all of us :D
[21:34] <pedro_> nxvl: send him a hug from me!
[21:36] <pedro_> bbl5
[21:36] <nxvl> pedro_: he said: "tell him i will give him one back in a very heterosexual way in a bit"
[21:36] <nxvl> :P
[21:38] <greg-g> "Note: If it is a request to add a feature to a specific program it should be forwarded to the upstream developers instead. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Forwarding%20upstream"
[21:38] <greg-g> jcastro: hows that? ^
[21:38] <greg-g> jcastro: added to the Bug/Responses page for the brainstorm copy/paste
[21:39] <greg-g> bdmurray: thoughts ^
[21:39] <greg-g> (that would obviously be nicely linkified, of course)
[21:43] <bdmurray> greg-g: sounds good to me
[21:49] <snap-l> Any thoughts on this bug and how to handle it: 149524
[21:50] <snap-l> bug 149524
[21:53] <hggdh> snap-l, I think it is an issue indeed, but I am not sure who would tackle it
[21:53] <hggdh> I know *I* experience it every so often with US
[21:53] <snap-l> Me too
[21:56] <greg-g> geez, that took long enough, had to fix a syntax error with the bold (''') text
[21:57] <greg-g> I wonder if we should subscribe ubungu-mirrors-admin to that bug snap-l / hggdh
[22:00] <hggdh> greg-g, I did not even know this group existed... and I have no idea who they are. But certainly, if they administer the mirrors, they should be involved
[22:01] <hggdh> but perhaps we should subscribe ubunTu-mirrors-admin ;-)
[22:01] <greg-g> eh, whichever you prefer ;)
[22:01] <hggdh> sorry, but it was begging for it ;-)
[22:02] <emma> Guys would this be a bug to classify as affecting the kernel -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/154648
[22:04] <snap-l> I'll subscribe them
[22:04] <emma> this bug that I just posted a link to?
[22:05] <Odd-rationale> no, other one. scroll up...
[22:05] <Azazel8> I think bug # 256384 should be in the wishlist
[22:05] <hggdh> bug 256384
[22:07] <hggdh> amazing -- s/he said s/he thinks it should be wishlist, and vanishes... For those that do not know about it: sync requests are not dealt by bugsquad
[22:08] <greg-g> and should not be suggested to be discussed at brainstorm, btw
[22:10] <hggdh> for details, please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Special%20types%20of%20bugs
[22:10] <emma> hggdh: what is a sync request?
[22:11] <hggdh> emma, when someone asks for a package to be upgraded to a new upstream version
[22:11] <emma> greg-g: It is not good to suggest in a reply to a bug report that they take the idea to brainstorm?
[22:11] <crimsun> 256384 requries very, very special handling.
[22:11] <crimsun> requires*
[22:11] <hggdh> emma, no. please see the link I just pointed out
[22:11] <greg-g> emma: not when they are asking for a sync
[22:12] <crimsun> it requires a corresponding upgrade of both alsa-lib and alsa-plugins to 1.0.17, and on top of that we would need git patches for alsa-lib
[22:12] <emma> Okay. I have never done any such thing, just to clarify, just curious.
[22:12] <greg-g> emma: yeah, understand.  it is different.
[22:12] <hggdh> emma, I am actually glad you asked. It gave us a chence of explaining
[22:12] <emma> cool :)
[22:12] <greg-g> crimsun: figured it a bit more than a simple sync request :)
[22:12] <hggdh> s/chece/chance/
[22:12] <jpds> emma: Sync requests are when Ubuntu developers ask for packages to be upgraded using Debian sources.
[22:13] <hggdh> greg-g, yes, I worded it badly
[22:13] <crimsun> it's actually very, very convoluted
[22:13] <greg-g> yeah
[22:13] <crimsun> if you think the breakage in hardy for pa was bad, this would make it nearly worse.
[22:13] <emma> This is nothing to do with anything really but I also surely hope that pulseaudio works differently some time in Hardy or hopefully in Intrepid.. It's been .. difficult.. for me.
[22:13] <hggdh> to us, to us... count me in
[22:14] <jpds> emma: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess has info on the process.
[22:14] <crimsun> well, no one had the spine to step up and accept my recommendations during post-hardy
[22:14] <emma> okay cool.
[22:14] <greg-g> crimsun: not sure what you are refering to, but it sounds like it was a "fun" time ;)
[22:15] <crimsun> greg-g: 192888 documents it.
[22:16] <crimsun> I have to stress that "simply" upgrading to the required versions of alsa-lib and alsa-plugins is /not/ an option for an LTS, and we've seen demonstrated breakage when that was attempted for hardy-proposed.  Much as I stated.
[22:16] <greg-g> gotcha
[22:17] <emma> crimsun: bug 192888 is definitely a bug that affects me directly, also there are strange things where mplayer cannot work if youtube was used first.
[22:18] <crimsun> emma: those are largely fixed in multiple ways in intrepid.  Some of those ways are backportable to hardy-backports but only for the x86_64 arch.
[22:19] <crimsun> the /only/ non-regressing method is the conffile changes to pulseaudio
[22:19] <emma> crimsun: maybe you could write a script that people could execute and it would fix everything.
[22:20] <crimsun> uh yeah, that would be about as good as automatix.
[22:20] <crimsun> "here's a happy script"
[22:21] <emma> I suppose maybe so, but I know you are a pulseaudio expert.
[22:21] <crimsun> I'm not an expert in anything.,
[22:21] <crimsun> I just happen to know systematic breakage and its workarounds for sound.
[22:23] <crimsun> the necessary change is in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/pulseaudio/hardy
[22:29] <greg-g> pedro_: I updated the bug/responses page to include a note about the distinction between brainstorm and a feature request that should be forwarded upstream
[22:33] <pedro_> greg-g: great!, thanks you
[22:34] <emma> Is this guy Kevin Mitnik -- https://launchpad.net/~abedzaben-89
[22:35] <nxvl> emma: nah! random guy using a known name
[22:35] <hggdh> emma, probably not...
[22:39] <emma> I kind of thought it was a long shot :)
[22:40] <hggdh> :-) as a general rule of thumb, one should not look at nick and associate to real persons (well, with a nick like hggdh, it is easy for me to say that ;-)
[22:46] <pjbroad> hi, anyone looked at bug #254423 its for a package ramlog which I din't think is in ubuntu.  What's the norm when this happens?
[22:47] <Odd-rationale> pjbroad: it is not in the repos, but you can download the .deb from the website
[22:48] <pjbroad> from a ubuntu website?
[22:48] <hggdh> no
[22:48] <Odd-rationale> http://tofu3.szm.sk/ramlog/
[22:49] <greg-g> then the problem should be reported to the people who made the package (.deb)
[22:49] <pjbroad> indeed
[22:49] <jibel> pjbroad: if it's not from an official Ubuntu repo, we do not support it
[22:49] <hggdh> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Packages%20not%20provided%20by%20Ubuntu
[22:49] <hggdh> and please close it invalid
[22:50] <pjbroad> ok, thanks
[22:50] <greg-g> np
[22:50] <hggdh> welcome. Thank you for helping
[22:50] <pwnguin> all that said, I wish we had a way of helping projects integrate their work
[22:50] <hggdh> +1
[22:50] <crimsun> we do, it's called #ubuntu-motu
[22:50] <pwnguin> i know
[22:51] <crimsun> jcastro: 17:50 < pwnguin> all that said, I wish we had a way of helping projects integrate their work
[22:51] <pwnguin> it's not mentioned in the canned response though, and
[22:51] <crimsun> pwnguin: there are paid Canonical employees who work to improve that; I just pinged one.
[22:51] <greg-g> the bug reporter isn't the one we need to reach out to to integrate the work of others
[22:52] <nellery> is the 5-a-day applet by any chance supposed to count down from 5 upon adding bugs to it?
[22:52] <pwnguin> the bug reporter's one more person motivated to make it happen
[22:52]  * greg-g is curious to see the results from the survey that jorge sent out
[22:52] <hggdh> and this is why I do not think the canned response is the best place (but perhaps with a suggestion to tell the developers to use it?)
[22:52] <hggdh> hum
[22:53] <crimsun> or you could take red hat's approach and just hire upstream
[22:53] <greg-g> pwnguin: kinda, other times they don't care who "maintains" that software, they just want it fixed.  it is the developers of the software and the people who are already packaging it
[22:53] <crimsun> (j/k)
[22:53] <hggdh> nellery, what do you mean?
[22:53] <greg-g> heh
[22:53] <nellery> hggdh, do you know what the applet is?
[22:54] <hggdh> the 5-a-day, yes
[22:54] <pwnguin> crimsun: no joke. i know fedora people / users who are almost angry Canonical doesn't operate like that
[22:54] <nellery> the icon is like a sticky note, with the number 5 on it
[22:54] <crimsun> pwnguin: not my decision :)
[22:54] <nellery> Wouldn't that be awesome if, upon adding a bug, it counted down?
[22:55] <hggdh> indeed...
[22:55] <hggdh> ping dholbach on it
[22:56] <greg-g> and when it hits 0 it should refresh to 5 (no 10!) otherwise people will just stop ;)
[22:56] <nellery> hggdh, it was made by Markus Korn
[22:56] <nellery> so I shall bother him about it :)
[22:56] <emma> For learning purposes could one of you tell me which package this affects https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/155669
[22:56] <pwnguin> http://jldugger.livejournal.com/1968.html is a small bit i wrote about the situation
[22:57] <hggdh> so it is thekorn, sorry
[23:00] <nellery> emma, it's an old Gutsy bug
[23:00] <nellery> you should ask if it still exists in Hardy
[23:00] <nellery> and if so, if it would be possible to test on Intrepid
[23:01] <emma> Is that a good technique for many such bugs that were filed a long time ago in Gutsy? Ask for more information/if it is still a problem in Hardy and then mark as incomplete?
[23:01] <hggdh> emma, the reporter never identified the issue
[23:01] <emma> How do bugs like this ever 'evaporate' ?
[23:01] <jibel> emma: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Old%20untouched%20bugs
[23:02] <jibel> set it "incomplete" and close it in 4 weeks if you've got no answer.
[23:02] <crimsun> another thing to note about 155669 that may not be immediately obvious:  it's cluttered by unrelated comments by users (Stephen and Dianne) who do not have the same hardware
[23:02] <hggdh> also -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Not%20described%20well
[23:03] <greg-g> oh the joys of "random crashes" bugs
[23:03] <hggdh> if the user was able to SSH in, then the machine did not really froze
[23:03] <crimsun> my guess is the ati X.Org driver
[23:03] <hggdh> right now, it is difficult to say *what* happened -- might be X
[23:03] <hggdh> crimsun, heh :-)
[23:03] <crimsun> however, which ATI video card?
[23:04] <crimsun> it's FUN guessing.  really.
[23:04] <hggdh> majority vote? Anyone?
[23:04] <crimsun> "I bet your automobile's collant caused your computer to freeze"
[23:04] <crimsun> coolant*
[23:04] <emma> When marked incomplete they eventually automatically delete themselves?
[23:06] <hggdh> they will, after 60 days
[23:06] <hggdh> crimsun, OTOH, an automotive collant would be a sight to see ;-)
[23:07] <emma> To me this sounds like not a bug but just running compiz on a system that is too slow to handle it -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/155364
[23:07] <Odd-rationale> just say: upgrade your hardware
[23:08] <emma> No that's bad I think.
[23:08] <hggdh> emma, please ask for a ' sudo lspci -vvn'
[23:09] <Odd-rationale> i was joking of course...
[23:09] <emma> okay, that way you can see what their specs are.
[23:09] <emma> hggdh: is that a good thing to ask for in all cases like this where it may well be insufficient hardware?
[23:09] <nellery> hggdh, really?  They set themselves to invalid automatically?
[23:09] <nellery> I thought they just joined the really really really long list of bugs marked for expiry
[23:09] <peanutb> Does anyone have the 5-a-day app working?
[23:09] <hggdh> yes. You caould also ask the reporter to run, say, htop, when this is happening, and look at the top CPU process
[23:09] <nellery> peanutb, I do
[23:09] <hggdh> nellery, yes, they should
[23:10] <nellery> ah ok
[23:10] <peanutb> we are getting some really weird errors
[23:10] <greg-g> hggdh: they aren't set to invalid automatically, they are jsut "marked for expiration" and a person has to manually do it
[23:11] <Odd-rationale> peanutb: i have got it working
[23:11] <hggdh> oh really? What a waste of effort...
[23:12] <peanutb> FireRabbit was having trouble with it
[23:12] <peanutb> im gonna try and get it working
[23:12] <Odd-rationale> greg-g: where can we see all those marked for expiration
[23:12] <Odd-rationale> ?
[23:13] <Odd-rationale> peanutb: did he ask recently? i don't find his/her question in my scroll back...
[23:13] <greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+expirable-bugs
[23:13] <greg-g> it is linked from https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[23:13] <nellery> I think  better one to use
[23:14] <nellery> would be an advanced search with 'Incomplete without a reponse'
[23:14] <nellery> and ordered by 'least recently changed'
[23:14] <pwnguin> hggdh: it's supposed to expire automatically, but that's a bug in lp itself ;)
[23:14] <greg-g> nope
[23:14] <greg-g> they decided to not do that after a bunch of people didn't like it
[23:14] <greg-g> it happened once then never again
[23:15] <pwnguin> well a bunch of people didnt look at bugs, yes
[23:15] <hggdh> it is a question of human power and amount of bugs
[23:15] <pwnguin> which is why today is about :)
[23:16] <hggdh> indeed
[23:17] <nellery> Here's a more appropriate list
[23:17] <nellery> http://tinyurl.com/expirablebugs
[23:17] <nellery> it doesn't have bugs that have responses from the reporter, but no reply from the triager
[23:19] <hggdh> this can be something to look at and work on BUT: (1) if it is assigned to somebody, leave it be; (2) carefully read the issue before taking action
[23:21] <Odd-rationale> So if a bug can be expired, and you read in the comments that "yeah, thanks, that solved my issue", it is quite some to close it?
[23:22] <pwnguin> Odd-rationale: is it reproducable out of the box, or a matter of user error?
[23:23] <hggdh> another view, with just "incomplete-without-response" , no assignee: http://tinyurl.com/5aqah2
[23:23] <hggdh> and sorted least recently changed
[23:24] <hggdh> Odd-rationale, sometimes what solved the reporter's issues was a bypass, not a solution.
[23:24] <Odd-rationale> i see
[23:24] <peanutb> okay from 5-a-day im getting some weird errors
[23:25] <Odd-rationale> peanutb: like?
[23:25] <Yasumoto> I'm having bzr issues with 5-a-day
[23:25] <Yasumoto> something about ctypes 1.0.2 instead of 1.0.3
[23:25] <peanutb> pastebinning it
[23:25] <peanutb> http://pastebin.ca/1097433
[23:26] <emma> Is this a bug with xorg? -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/156480
[23:27] <emma> Or is that bug old enough to ask if it is still a problem and mark incomplete?
[23:28] <pwnguin> emma: it might be an x driver thing. until its clear its xorg, I'd refile it against xserver-xorg-video-something
[23:28] <pwnguin> and ask if it's fixed in hardy / intrepid
[23:28] <emma> Okay.
[23:28] <peanutb> Odd-rationale: im getting a bzr error about branches not existing
[23:29] <Odd-rationale> peanutb: did you tell 5-a-day what your LP id is?
[23:29] <peanutb> yeah
[23:29] <peanutb> Odd-rationale: http://pastebin.ca/1097433
[23:29] <nellery> peanutb, I think that happened to me
[23:29] <pwnguin> emma: the one trick is, it's restricted; that's fglrx
[23:29] <nellery> reinstall 5-a-day
[23:29] <nellery> delete your ~/.5-a-day file
[23:29] <peanutb> i installed it like 5 min ago
[23:29] <emma> pwnguin: I don't get you, what do you mean by restricted?
[23:30] <nellery> peanutb, and delete .5-a-day-paul-bartell
[23:30] <nellery> it's happened twice to me, and that worked
[23:30] <pwnguin> emma: ati has different drivers. the closed binary ones (restricted) and the free ones
[23:32] <pwnguin> anyone know the right package to assign fglrx bugs to?
[23:32] <emma> pwnguin: ahh I understand now. Yes that would be a problem.
[23:33] <Odd-rationale> pwnguin: well, you have to download the fglrx binaries from ati.com
[23:33] <pwnguin> emma: ati is one of the open ones =/
[23:33] <pwnguin> no you dont
[23:33] <Odd-rationale> i don't think it is in any of the repos...
[23:33] <pwnguin> i know theres some parts in -restricted-modules
[23:34] <Odd-rationale> oh, wait. ditch that...
[23:34] <pwnguin> dont worry, i already did :)
[23:34] <Odd-rationale> linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r`
[23:36] <Odd-rationale> downloading from ati.com is the other way to get the drivers...
[23:36] <pwnguin> this is true
[23:36] <pwnguin> but not very user friendly, or supported
[23:36] <Odd-rationale> less recommended but sometimes works better
[23:37] <pwnguin> when it doesn't work, dont file in LP ;)
[23:37] <Yasumoto> sweet, 5-a-day works
[23:37] <Yasumoto> i forgot to uncomment the repo after upgrading to intrepid from hardy..
[23:37] <Odd-rationale> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI
[23:38] <Yasumoto> for packages from debian, the difference between a merge and a sync is
[23:39] <Yasumoto> a merge is for a new package not in Ubuntu, and a sync is for one already in the ubuntu repos, right?
[23:40] <peanutb> Odd-rationale: getting rid of the .5-a-day file fixed it. thanks
[23:41] <effie_jayx> Yasumoto,  a merge is for a package that has changes compared to the original debian package
[23:42] <Odd-rationale> peanutb: wasn't my idea... but was going to suggest it... :)
[23:42] <Yasumoto> effie_jayx: ah, thanks
[23:43] <Yasumoto> (I was thinking "merge this package into the Ubuntu repo")
[23:43] <effie_jayx> Yasumoto,  those are requests to MOTU's
[23:43] <pwnguin> Yasumoto: it is a merge, it's merge the changes ubuntu has with the changes debian has
[23:44] <pwnguin> sometimes ubuntu changes make it upstream, so we can drop patches etc, and if there's no changes left, we can just sync from then on
[23:45] <pwnguin> Yasumoto: http://jldugger.livejournal.com/8866.html has a quick treatment on the subject =/
[23:46] <pwnguin> it doesn't cover what a sync is versus a merge though
[23:47] <effie_jayx> pwnguin,  there is cool docs in the wiki
[23:47]  * effie_jayx fetches for them
[23:49] <effie_jayx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing is a nice one
[23:50] <pwnguin> no pictures, and a wall of text ;)
[23:50] <pwnguin> anyways
[23:51] <nxvl> hello from peru in a new location: Starbuck cafe!
[23:52] <effie_jayx> nxvl,  :D
[23:53] <nxvl> no more proxys finally!
[23:56] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[23:56] <emma> Is there a certain common package for reports of the form: "My resume/suspend don't work"
[23:57] <Odd-rationale> i think it is acpi
[23:59] <Odd-rationale> another one might be pm-utils


[08:26] <praisethemoon> good morning o/
[08:35] <elacheche> o/
[08:36] <praisethemoon> elacheche, good day :D
[08:36] <elacheche> Good day praisethemoon :)
[08:36] <praisethemoon> how is it going?
[08:37] <Naeil> morning everyone
[08:37] <elacheche> Good good :) I managed to install X on my Gentoo box, then awesome wm and SLiM..
[08:40] <elacheche> hey Naeil
[08:42] <praisethemoon> KDE next? :D :D
[08:43] <elacheche> In an other life maybe..  But, maybe, becasue back to the days when I start using Linux I used it once or twice and was very very bugy.. And ungly comparing it to Gnome2 and GTK
[08:54] <elacheche> Also, hated it because whenever I'm about to install 1 software who starts with K it grab a whole banch of K deps and softwares with it.. That's too much..
[08:56] <elacheche> however, I only Like Konsole.. Becasue I can use my irc client to join #linuxac and still can read Arabic messages without issues.. xTerm & Terminator dn't support Arabic
[09:00] <praisethemoon> elacheche, i was joking about the hate thingy xD
[09:00] <praisethemoon> KDE is build around Qt framework
[09:01] <praisethemoon> Which is a bunch of C++ to build crossplatform gui application.
[09:01] <praisethemoon> So yeah, KDE WILL BUG. WILL EAT A LOT OF SPACE
[09:01] <praisethemoon> but now it looks cool ^^"
[09:01] <elacheche> I know praisethemoon.. Qt wasn't that cute back to the days I started using Linux :p
[09:01] <Naeil> Alright, I may disagree with you in some points like KDE is not buggy anymore, I tested it last week the Plasma version and it was very cool but you know I like awesome wm more than KDE so I switched back
[09:02] <praisethemoon> and it comes with alot of high quality software like Konsole, KDevelop, ..
[09:02] <praisethemoon> omg xD
[09:02] <Naeil> For terminator I don't know where I saw that but I remember it supports Arabic with some dep packages?
[09:02] <praisethemoon> but it still bugs, i use it daily ;)
[09:03] <Naeil> well, honestly praisethemoon I used it for 10 minutes I liked the new icons and their package manager dolphin but I didn't saw any bug :p
[09:03] <elacheche> Yeah Naeil, you should install Bicon 1st, I couldn't do it on my Ubuntu, for some reason, maybe I'm so dumb that I couldn't compile it the right way..
[09:04] <Naeil> yep Bicon I was trying to member it :p I will try it on my arch and let you know if I succeeded :D
[09:04] <praisethemoon> Naeil, did you know that dolphin can be used as ftp client
[09:04] <praisethemoon> xD
[09:04] <Naeil> haha praisethemoon yep it have many features that are useless :P
[09:04] <elacheche> praisethemoon: What I hate in KDE too, it the Windows like philosophy, you use KDE so you have specifique apps that you're supposed to use.. That's good for end-users.. Not me :p I like to be in controle.. That's why, I love those 5 hours that I lost installing Gentoo
[09:05] <elacheche> praisethemoon: Do you have that you should not use FTP anymore! :p
[09:05] <elacheche> Hosting companies should drop FTP support and offr SFTP or FTPS ones
[09:06] <elacheche> Naeil: On arch it should works.. I don't remember what was the problem, but maybe in was a dep not found in Ubuntu.. Or some dep conflicts..
[09:07] <elacheche> praisethemoon: Do you know what's really weird!
[09:07] <praisethemoon> hit ùe
[09:07] <praisethemoon> me*
[09:07] <praisethemoon> :D
[09:08]  * Naeil likes weird things xD
[09:08] <elacheche> My 1st Linux installation was for a KDE version of the last Mandrake version.. x) When I saw the GNU duringthe boot screen I fall in LOVE with it x)
[09:09] <elacheche> http://linux-blog.org/uploads/Reviews/snapshot3.png
[09:09] <praisethemoon> XD
[09:09] <praisethemoon> was that back in 2007? XD
[09:09] <praisethemoon> 2005 ..
[09:09]  * praisethemoon looks at the date
[09:09] <elacheche> Yeah! April 2007 @class.. Wanna know a mucc more weird story?
[09:09] <praisethemoon> hit me :D
[09:11] <elacheche> I knew Ubuntu and fall in Love for it after a Month or so becasue of WINDOWS VISTA review in a magazine x) They had more thna 10 pages explaining features of the new comming Windows Vista and how beautiful it was, and 2 or 3 pages about Ubuntu 07.04 x)
[09:14] <praisethemoon> lel vista
[09:14] <praisethemoon> biggest fail
[09:14] <praisethemoon> i never installed that shit
[09:14] <elacheche> There was a FreeCD with it.. But the friend who gave me the magazine lost it before he share the mag with me x) They presented the new Live CD / GUI installer.. So what should I do, go and download Ubuntu.. I didn't knew what was all the names in the download links, I only knew that I should get i386 version.. I did and it was an Alternate version, not a live one x) But I managed to nstall it anyway.. And
[09:14] <elacheche> that was awwesome x)
[09:14] <praisethemoon> oh XDD
[09:14] <praisethemoon> yeah
[09:15] <praisethemoon> i got the first CD by requesting it to be shipped to me
[09:15] <praisethemoon> for free :D
[09:15] <praisethemoon> i lost both CDs ..
[09:15] <praisethemoon> :(
[09:16] <elacheche> I migrated 100% to Linux becasue of Vista too.. I had it preinstalled on my laptop, was too buggy, 2 things I couldn't live with, he was eating too much disk space, and it had a weird bug that even M$ support couldn't fix or know what was it.. It was stop surfing the  net after a random time.. With all browsers..
[09:17] <elacheche> I still have my old CDs x)
[09:19] <praisethemoon> :(
[09:40] <elacheche> praisethemoon: did Akira helped you?
[09:40] <praisethemoon> who's that? :3
[09:42] <elacheche> Ismail
[09:56] <praisethemoon> oh xD
[09:56] <praisethemoon> akira is from an anime
[09:57] <praisethemoon> and I saw him one day wearing that anime's shirt XD
[09:57] <praisethemoon> elacheche, i haven't yet, I am not improving much at work, got stuck on a config for like a week :/
[09:59] <elacheche> hahaha :D
[10:00] <elacheche> I know it's from anime.; But wich one?
[10:09] <nzoueidi> I think I will stick with this nickname, it is much better x)
[10:15] <elacheche> :D
[10:21] <nzoueidi> elacheche: wdyt http://superuser.com/questions/243625/any-irc-clients-with-vi-key-binds :D
[10:23] <nzoueidi> git clone https://github.com/shabble/irssi-scripts
[10:23] <nzoueidi> git clone git clone https://github.com/shabble/irssi-scriptshttps://github.com/shabble/irssi-scripts.git
[10:24] <elacheche> irssi is good, I use weechat.. The default key binds are good for me..  :S
[11:35] <praisethemoon> What is this Whois (masqué) +5dt per year
[11:36] <praisethemoon> elacheche, think i'm gonna buy from webhost.tn :3
[11:55] <elacheche> praisethemoon: .tn or .org it's the same.. whatever you like
[11:55] <praisethemoon> and the whois stuff :O
[11:55] <praisethemoon> i dont enough money to go for it
[11:57] <elacheche> When someone go to whois.com forexample or use the command whois domain.tld.. He can get all informations about the domain, including the owner details(name, mail, postcode, address, phone numbers, etc..) You can ask them to hide it
[11:57] <praisethemoon> +5dt ..
[11:58] <elacheche> :)
[11:58] <praisethemoon> I barely have 49.5dt in my edinar
[11:58] <praisethemoon> i'll just i'll leave it for later
[11:58] <praisethemoon> dat english
[11:59] <nzoueidi> praisethemoon: elacheche check that nzoueidi.com
[11:59] <nzoueidi> elacheche: I know that you will like the design :D
[12:00] <elacheche> nzoueidi: you're copiying rms website's design x)
[12:00] <praisethemoon> DUDE
[12:00] <praisethemoon> ur an HTML5 CSS3 JavaScript monster :O
[12:00] <nzoueidi> hahahaha :D
[12:01] <elacheche> lool.. all sysadmins are ninjas in evetrything praisethemoon ;)
[12:01] <praisethemoon> XD
[13:05] <elacheche> Salam!  Nothing to do with that :p
[13:08] <elacheche> Omar__: how are you doing today :)
[13:08] <elacheche> Oops
[13:12] <praisethemoon> elacheche, XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
[13:12] <praisethemoon> oh boy x'D
[13:12] <praisethemoon> gonna day of laughs
[13:12] <praisethemoon> die*
[13:12] <praisethemoon> XD
[13:13] <praisethemoon> pavlushka, you didn't see that okay?
[13:13] <elacheche> x)
[13:13] <elacheche> He got a timeout praisethemoon :p That's not his fault :p
[13:14] <praisethemoon> Time shows no mercy :(
[13:15] <praisethemoon> ubuntulog, kick pavlushka !
[13:15] <praisethemoon> elacheche, how do you control this bot?
[13:15] <praisethemoon> ubuntulog #kick($pavlushka)!
[13:16] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: it just a logging bot, lol
[13:17] <elacheche> praisethemoon: afaik, ubuntulog only log our conversation :) He can't kick anyone..
[13:17] <elacheche> Salam nizarus :)
[13:18] <praisethemoon> elacheche, we need a bot that can do stuff
[13:18] <praisethemoon> like say nizarus is not online
[13:18] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: you do it :p
[13:19] <praisethemoon> you can leave him a message when he's not here
[13:19] <praisethemoon> and one he joins the bot will tell him your message
[13:19] <praisethemoon> pavlushka, you think i can do it? xD
[13:19] <elacheche> praisethemoon: MemoServe can do that :)
[13:19] <pavlushka> u-la-la: tell praisethemoon only when he will not be around to be around :p
[13:20] <u-la-la> pavlushka: Righto, I'll tell praisethemoon on freenode
[13:20] <elacheche> You can use /msg MemoServ send <nick> Your message here
[13:20] <praisethemoon> ;-;
[13:20] <u-la-la> praisethemoon: By the way, pavlushka on freenode told me "tell praisethemoon only when he will not be around to be around :p" 57 seconds ago
[13:21] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: yep, you can do that too :)
[13:21] <praisethemoon> uhhmh
[13:21] <praisethemoon> u-la-la, tell elacheche only when he will not be around to be around :D
[13:21] <u-la-la> praisethemoon: Got it, I'll tell elacheche on freenode
[13:21] <praisethemoon> but wait, elacheche is always around ..
[13:22] <elacheche> x)
[13:22] <u-la-la> elacheche: By the way, praisethemoon on freenode told me "tell elacheche only when he will not be around to be around :D" 26 seconds ago
[13:22] <elacheche> I'm  bot x)
[13:22] <elacheche> a*
[13:22] <praisethemoon> wait, is u-la-la a bot?
[13:22] <praisethemoon> u-la-la, tell u-la-la  only when he will not be around to be around
[13:22] <u-la-la> praisethemoon: I can't deliver messages to myself
[13:22] <praisethemoon> D:
[13:31] <praisethemoon> u-la-la, what is your purpose?
[13:31] <u-la-la> praisethemoon: Not a clue, sorry
[13:31] <praisethemoon> u-la-la, who made you?
[13:31] <u-la-la> praisethemoon: Sorry...
[13:34] <praisethemoon> u-la-la, say hi
[13:34] <u-la-la> hoe gaan dit
[13:34] <praisethemoon> u-la-la, good bot
[13:34] <u-la-la> :)
[13:48] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: u-la-la is compiled from https://code.launchpad.net/iterum, an ibid bot variant .
[13:50] <praisethemoon> pavlushka, you deployed him here?
[13:52] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: I deployed it in my pc to connect to freenode and on irc, it listens to me :)
[13:52]  * pavlushka giving some instance
[13:52] <pavlushka> u-la-la: leave #ubuntu-tn
[13:55] <praisethemoon> pavlushka, awesome :D
[13:55] <praisethemoon> cool stuff man
[13:55] <praisethemoon> what else can you do with this bot?
[13:55]  * pavlushka nods
[13:55] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: thanks :)
[13:55] <pavlushka> u-la-la: help
[13:56] <u-la-la> pavlushka: I can help you with: administrative functions, bot accounts and permissions, debugging me, looking things up, remembering things, delivering messages, decisions, games, monitoring things, browsing the internet, conversions, silly fun stuff, calculations, system administration, software development and south african stuff.
[13:56] <u-la-la> Ask me "help me with ..." for more details.
[13:56] <praisethemoon> silly fun stuff xDD
[13:56] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: its not complete yet, and need to configure more, I just configured some basics.
[13:57] <praisethemoon> that's awesome xD
[13:57] <praisethemoon> but ...
[13:57] <praisethemoon> may i suggest a different name
[13:59] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: actually. I didn't named it, we have a small FB group of linux users, there I asked for a name for a bot for #ubuntu-bd channel, and this name came up :)
[13:59] <praisethemoon> well too many '-'
[13:59] <praisethemoon> XD
[14:00] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: actually it was a trick to get them involved, as it is necessary to make them feel that they are involved
[14:00] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: and to attract them to IRC :p
[14:01] <pavlushka> I am working on it still :)
[14:01] <praisethemoon> alrighty :)
[14:02] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: as I prefer less gui and more performance/work :), and to me, it is a smarter way :)
[14:03] <praisethemoon> XDDDD
[14:03] <praisethemoon> tell me ur not using a console based irc client xD
[14:03]  * pavlushka actually forced to use cli tbh for his more than 10 year old machine and now loving it.
[14:04] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: Hexchat, as it appears light and much more configurable :)
[14:04] <pavlushka> to me specially
[14:08] <praisethemoon> same here :)
[14:08]  * pavlushka gives high five to praisethemoon
[14:09]  * praisethemoon gives high live to pavlushka  :D :D
[14:09] <praisethemoon> o/
[14:12] <pavlushka> \o
[15:17] <praisethemoon> nuuu
[15:42] <praisethemoon> pavlushka, welcome back
[15:43] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: thank you :)
[15:43] <praisethemoon> so what are you up to?
[15:45] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: I am looking for a crap source of income atm, and on online, exactly right now after completed grocery task :p
[15:46] <praisethemoon> you wanna work online?
[15:46] <praisethemoon> why don't you take some cs course
[15:49] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: I need money for that, that's why I have to work first :)
[15:50] <praisethemoon> no you don't
[15:50] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: show me how.
[15:50] <praisethemoon> coursera
[15:50] <praisethemoon> edx
[15:50] <praisethemoon> udacity
[15:50] <praisethemoon> that's about 100hours of free high class CS materials XD
[15:55] <pavlushka> praisethemoon: will look into those, thanks :)
[15:55] <praisethemoon> you're welcome <3
[15:55] <praisethemoon> and you may ask me for any question regarding cs
[15:55] <praisethemoon> you can ask elacheche for any questions regarding life and the universe
[15:58] <elacheche> Sure, I have the answer for that
[16:00] <elacheche> It's 42
[16:24] <praisethemoon> XD
[16:24] <praisethemoon> what's that elacheche?
[16:25] <pavlushka> I think his age :)
[16:26] <praisethemoon> no, elacheche is 34
[16:26] <elacheche> You have no idea about life and universe pavlushka praisethemoon so I gave you the answer ;)
[16:26] <elacheche> It's 42
[16:26] <elacheche> nzoueidi & nizarus will confirm that too
[16:27] <praisethemoon> 42 planets
[16:27] <praisethemoon> you live 42 times
[16:27] <nizarus> yep it's 42
[16:27] <praisethemoon> in each life you install ubuntu 42 times
[16:30] <elacheche> praisethemoon: The answer is always 42 :)
[16:30] <pavlushka> rofl
[16:38] <praisethemoon> 32 version of ubuntu have been released so far
[16:38] <praisethemoon> \o/
[16:38] <praisethemoon> 42 *
[16:40] <nizarus> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life.2C_the_Universe.2C_and_Everything_.2842.29
[16:51] <elacheche> :)
[18:08] <praisethemoon> GUESS WHOS BACK
[20:10] <Omar> Slm
[20:14] <AcidNinjaFWHR> Salut
[20:26] <praisethemoon> AcidNinjaFWHR, salut :)
[20:26] <praisethemoon> je suis content de te voir ici :D
[20:26] <praisethemoon> tu dois nous rejoindre le jour aussi :D
[20:29] <AcidNinjaFWHR> ouais sauf que le jour je suis au boulot
[20:29] <AcidNinjaFWHR> et au boulot je peux pas faire ça
[20:29] <AcidNinjaFWHR> mais je pourrai mettre un znc + kiwi irc sur mon serveur :D


[11:19] <mup> Issue operator#1097 opened: Pods are restarted because of a WebSocketBadStatusException in Pebble <Created by darkalia> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1097>