[00:00] <Nubae-laptop> aaaaarghh... damn u xorg
[00:01] <Nubae-laptop> http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education
[00:01] <Nubae-laptop> check that out
[00:01] <Nubae-laptop> its from someone doing a usb spin for edu materials, most kde
[00:02] <LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: what part?
[00:02] <Nubae-laptop> whacha mean?
[00:06] <Nubae-laptop> LaserJock: just thought itd be an interesting article
[00:06] <Nubae-laptop> i talked to the guy involved and he was intrigued by edubuntu which he had strangely not heard of
[00:21] <LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: involved with what?
[00:21] <LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: that link is just a wiki page
[00:31] <Nubae-laptop> http://pastebin.be/16413
[00:36] <Nubae-laptop> it was an email sent to the sugar list, talking about making a unified learning environment on a usb stick
[00:36] <Nubae-laptop> something for everyone, not just kids 5-12
[00:37] <Nubae-laptop> also did u get my mail about the guy that wanted to package blender?
[00:38] <LaserJock> oh, the Fedora Education guys
[00:38] <LaserJock> I know them a bit
[00:38] <Nubae-laptop> yeah right
[00:38] <LaserJock> yeah, i did get the email about blender
[00:38] <LaserJock> not sure what to think about it
[00:38] <Nubae-laptop> me either, but though, if he wants to do it... its one less thing to worry about
[00:39] <Nubae-laptop> or one more thing, depending on how u look at it :d
[00:39] <LaserJock> well yeah
[00:40] <LaserJock> if you're not familiar with Ubuntu processes getting Blender into Main will not be trivial
[00:40] <Nubae-laptop> yeah but we have to start somewhere
[00:41] <Nubae-laptop> but I understand u dont want to take on all the workload
[00:41] <Nubae-laptop> i get that
[00:46] <LaserJock> well, certainly if people want to push for things that's awesome
[00:47] <Nubae-laptop> hows the uni stuff going anyway?
[00:56] <LaserJock> oh, decent
[00:56] <LaserJock> lots to do
[00:57] <Nubae-laptop> hopefully u've had some time to advance...
[01:01] <LaserJock> a little
[01:01] <LaserJock> had a lot of teaching to do
[01:01] <LaserJock> and my parents came for a visit
[01:13] <nothingman> hi, all
[01:18]  * Nubae-laptop  is about to throw his wacom cintiq tablet out the window...
[01:19] <Meshezabeel> heya nothingman
[01:28] <guntur_roxx> hey Ahmuck .. i'm just woken up..sorry
[01:28] <guntur_roxx> r u there?
[01:28] <Ahmuck> yes
[01:29] <guntur_roxx> how's my problem?
[01:29] <guntur_roxx> i haven't try with the safe graphics mode
[01:29] <guntur_roxx> coz i fell a sleep..haha
[01:29] <Ahmuck> at the keyboard i bet :)
[01:30] <guntur_roxx> but maybe i think it won't work too, coz the linux mint that already installed goes blank screen too
[01:30] <guntur_roxx> haha nope, on my bed of course..LOL..:)
[01:32] <Ahmuck> there is a xorg repair option when you boot.  when grub starts, u'll notice "esc" for grub menu, and then a repair option.  this will allow you to repair xorg
[01:32] <Ahmuck> which should set it to a safe graphics mode
[01:32] <guntur_roxx> owh
[01:32] <guntur_roxx> so i must press esc for entering safe graphics mode?
[01:33] <Ahmuck> to get to a grub menu with options
[01:33] <guntur_roxx> is this about this? http://i34.tinypic.com/a1sns.jpg
[01:34] <guntur_roxx> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Common%20Boot%20Options ?
[01:34] <guntur_roxx> i don't really understand those..:(
[01:35] <Ahmuck> yes
[01:37] <guntur_roxx> should i choose the recovery mode after pressing esc?
[01:37] <Ahmuck> yes, and it will boot.  it's the second option on the list
[01:37] <guntur_roxx> n what is the vga=771 for?
[01:37] <guntur_roxx> owh okay
[01:39] <Ahmuck> eventually a menu will com up, with an option at the bottom, try to fix xorg, or xfix
[01:39] <guntur_roxx> okay..
[01:39] <guntur_roxx> after that?
[01:39] <guntur_roxx> it starts to boot with the safe graphics mode?
[01:40] <Ahmuck> it'll write a customized xorg and backup your current one.  then it'll loop you back to the menu and you can select the first option, to resume a normal boot
[01:41]  * guntur_roxx is remembering...
[01:41] <guntur_roxx> :)
[01:43] <Ahmuck> r u on the system that is borken?
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> yeah
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> it's my pc
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> now i'm using windows xp
[01:43] <Ahmuck> ah, i thought you were working from another system
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> nope
[01:43] <Ahmuck> so ur using wubi?
[01:43] <Ahmuck> or dual boot?
[01:43] <guntur_roxx> using wubi
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> for linux mint
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> n after installation finished
[01:44] <Ahmuck> ah, then that might be a different story.  i've never used wubi
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> it does the same problem
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> nope
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> wait
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> before that
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> i do boot
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> from ubuntu 8.10 cd
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> then clicked "Install Ubuntu"
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> but after it finished loaded
[01:44] <guntur_roxx> it goes blank screen
[01:45]  * Ahmuck is confused now
[01:45] <guntur_roxx> that's the problem.. after that i tried to install linux mint too, i boot from cd, n there's the same problem
[01:45] <Ahmuck> so first you tried wubi, then tried the live cd?
[01:45] <Ahmuck> why don't we move to another channel
[01:45] <Ahmuck> this channel is more for edubuntu
[01:46] <guntur_roxx> argh
[01:46] <Ahmuck> join #Ahmuck
[02:24] <Nubae-laptop> man I wish they would stick to some conventions at least... getting my wacom board to work was like having to relearn linux...
[02:25] <sbalneav> Evening all
[02:45] <Ahmuck_Jr> no kidding
[02:45] <Nubae-laptop> man u know before intrepid... most xorg based stuff just worked... now its tweaking for everything
[02:46] <Ahmuck_Jr> which is why on my production ssytem i moved back to hardy this week
[03:15] <nubae> god... I reverted to my old install of ubuntu (still intrepid, but with fewer backports) and the cintiq works perfectly
[16:31] <lulemurfan> hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork
[16:44] <Ahmuck> edubuntu 8.10 ?
[16:45] <lulemurfan_> can anyone help me? - hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork
[16:47] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: I think the answer you got was that it would be easier with e recent version, like 8.04 LTS or 8.10
[16:47] <lulemurfan_> my laptop won't accept it
[16:47] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: the wifi drivers and network stack have seen a lot of work since 5.10
[16:47] <lulemurfan_> is there anyway?
[16:47] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: 5.10 is the _most_ recent version you can use?
[16:48] <lulemurfan_> yes
[16:48] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: what's the problem with newer version? I don't think 5.10 is supported anymore
[16:49] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: 6.04 was LTS, so it's still supported for a few more month
[16:49] <lulemurfan_> won't install proberly, the laptop as memory of about 128mb and hard drive space of about 3 gb
[16:49] <Ahmuck> xubuntu with ltsp ...
[16:50] <loic-m> lulemurfan_: hd space should be enough. For the memory, are you sure xubuntu on alternate install mode wouldn't install?
[16:50] <Ahmuck> lspci to find out what wireless chip u have
[16:50] <lulemurfan_> which exubuntu shall i download
[16:50] <Ahmuck> iirc, xubuntu requirements went to 256 in 8.10
[16:51] <loic-m> Ahmuck: do you think xubuntu 8.04 would install with 128mo ?
[16:51] <Ahmuck> as i recall it installs in 128
[16:51] <Ahmuck> but one should really use 8.04
[16:52] <Ahmuck> for that small mem.
[16:52] <Ahmuck> er, yes, what you said.  i'm misreading
[16:52] <lulemurfan_> ok, i'll download that, then it should work
[16:52] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan u need the alternate install
[16:52] <loic-m> "You need 128 MB RAM to run the Live CD or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM at install time." that's for Xubuntu 8.04
[16:53] <lulemurfan_> ok, i'll do that - thanks
[16:53] <Ahmuck> Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM.
[16:53] <loic-m> http://www.xubuntu.org/get strangely they also have the same requirements for xubuntu 8.10
[16:53] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan there are other options if you want something ubuntu flavored
[16:53] <Ahmuck> loic-m: yes, but i've tried both
[16:53] <loic-m> lulemurfan_ it depends if you have illimited bandwith, or if dl of a big iso is painful for you
[16:54] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan one option is crunchbang
[16:54] <Ahmuck> it uses openbox
[16:54] <Ahmuck> but has the repository strenght of ubuntu
[16:54] <lulemurfan_> ok, will that be ok using wi-fi?
[16:55] <Ahmuck> http://crunchbang.org/
[16:55] <Ahmuck> it's all ubuntu, just with different desktops
[16:55] <lulemurfan_> ok, i'll try that
[16:56] <Ahmuck> http://crunchbanglinux.org/
[16:57] <Ahmuck> there is the "lite" version as well
[16:57] <Ahmuck> but i'd recommend either crunchbang or xubuntu.  some people like e for a desktop, and it is very fast, but it took me a while to get used to it coming from windows
[16:58] <Ahmuck> the e version of ubuntu would be opengeu
[16:58] <Ahmuck> http://opengeu.intilinux.com/Home.html
[16:58] <Ahmuck> so now you have three choices :)
[16:59] <Ahmuck> but i think you might enjoy crunchbang on that laptop.  you may still need to work at getting the things working properly.  btw, do u know what wireless chip you have?
[16:59] <Ahmuck> i'm curious, why are you interetested in edubuntu?
[17:01]  * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan
[17:04] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: how's school?
[17:06]  * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan_
[17:08] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: ok
[17:08] <Ahmuck> lulemurfan_: i'm using crunchbang now
[17:09] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: u get ur masters yet?
[17:09] <LaserJock> I spent ~5 hrs solid teaching on Thursday
[17:09] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: no, I won't have a Masters
[17:09] <LaserJock> only PhD
[17:19] <LaserJock> anybody want to test Jaunty out?
[17:20] <Ahmuck> i'll give it a shot
[17:20] <Ahmuck> in a vm
[17:21] <Ahmuck> or r u wanting a full blown test?
[17:21] <Ahmuck> what's different about it?
[17:21] <LaserJock> just want to see if everything works
[17:22] <LaserJock> one of the problems we have is that we essentially release without having tested all the apps out
[17:25] <Ahmuck> yes, untested apps make me grumpy, but testing apps makes me grumpy as well
[17:25] <Ahmuck> when does jaunty get released?
[17:25] <Ahmuck> what's the status for management utilties in edubuntu?
[17:26] <loic-m> I tested tuxtype in a vm ;)
[17:26] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: Jaunty will be released in April
[17:27] <nubae> evening folks
[17:27] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: but we need testing pretty soon, we'll start freezing
[17:27] <LaserJock> loic-m: and how did that go?
[17:27] <LaserJock> loic-m: did you do a .desktop fix?
[17:27] <LaserJock> nubae: hola senor
[17:27]  * Ahmuck get's thaw thawmoto out
[17:28] <nubae> u know... I spent 6 hours trying to get my wacom cintiq pad working on intrepid yesterday... It had taken me 30 minutes under hardy
[17:28] <loic-m> LaserJock https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxtype/+bug/293397
[17:28] <nubae> and all because of stupid X's autoconfiguration screwing up yet again
[17:28] <loic-m> nubae did you use the wiki guide?
[17:28] <nubae> ye
[17:28] <nubae> yes
[17:28] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah, I know what you mean
[17:28] <Ahmuck> nubae: that's cause intrepid is now HAL rather than xorg.conf iirc
[17:29] <loic-m> nubae - I've got a cintiq too, but haven't installed jaunty (except in a vm)
[17:29] <nubae> the problem was that the hal .fdi file for the cintiq pad is screwed
[17:29] <nubae> meaning, everything was screwed
[17:29] <Ahmuck> iirc, jaunty is supposed to fall back to xorg.conf
[17:29] <loic-m> nubae the .fdi doesn't allow pad anyway if you already use the pen
[17:29] <nubae> thank god!
[17:30] <loic-m> nubae just configure in xorg.conf
[17:30] <nubae> well, I did like a millionn different things, and in the end, I ended up just doing it with specially modified wacom drivers
[17:30] <nubae> I wrote it up on my site
[17:30] <nubae> what should have been 5 minutes of work was 6 hours
[17:30] <nubae> sad sad
[17:30] <loic-m> nubae the fdi file should still be there in jaunty, but it doesn't get in the way of the xorg.conf anyway
[17:31] <nubae> I deleted it just in case
[17:31] <nubae> and then it all worked
[17:31] <loic-m> nubae: just write the right entries in xorg.conf, and should be ok
[17:31] <nubae> well the drivers from the repos were broken
[17:31] <Ahmuck> heh, i tried that and am using a generic video drive, got tired of messing with it
[17:31] <loic-m> nubae must say I also delete it just in case ...
[17:32] <nubae> iI had to use a special PPA to install
[17:32] <LaserJock> loic-m: so did tux type not need the icon in /usr/share/tuxtype/ as well?
[17:32] <LaserJock> loic-m: sometimes apps use it for an in-app icon
[17:32] <loic-m> nubae did the repo drivers work for you in intrepid?
[17:32] <nubae> anyway, my point is about xorg and its autcrappy configuration
[17:32] <nubae> I had similar problems with my graphics card
[17:32] <nubae> and with my thin clients
[17:33] <nubae> just ridiculous+
[17:33] <loic-m> LaserJock I corrected the desktop file. I can do a grep for the string, but I didn't notice anything not in place
[17:33] <nubae> whoever came up with the idea that xorg.conf was no longer needed was a total baboon
[17:33] <loic-m> LaserJock the icon was in debian/ so shouldn't be needed by the program
[17:33] <LaserJock> loic-m: oh
[17:33] <LaserJock> loic-m: the icon was in debian/ and they installed it to /usr/share/tuxtype??
[17:34] <nubae> ah.... rant over... I feel better now :-)
[17:34] <loic-m> nubae i can tell you who... just look in xorg mailing list for who proposed the .fdi file and advocated it on his blog
[17:34] <Ahmuck> nubae: ur not the only one that feels that way
[17:34] <nubae> well essentially they tried to fix a working system
[17:35] <Ahmuck> normally people don't like change, and if there is change, people expect it to be smooth
[17:35] <nubae> well, there was NO benefit to this change
[17:35] <nubae> non
[17:35] <LaserJock> sure there has
[17:35] <nubae> like?
[17:35] <loic-m> LaserJock: Yes, the packaging is... really old (had trouble understanding the rules)
[17:35] <LaserJock> for a lot of people X just works
[17:35] <LaserJock> loic-m: yeah. Thanks for the fixing, I'll upload it soon
[17:36] <loic-m> nubae there is a benefit, just that someone should have noticed it wouldn't work for wacom devices...
[17:36] <nubae> LaserJock: I don't know anyonw where they havent had to tweak x a little... just take a look at the ltsp mailing list and ull see what I mean
[17:36] <loic-m> LaserJock thx
[17:36] <LaserJock> nubae: ok, but you're pointing to LTSP, which is very much a corner case
[17:36] <nubae> no its just another example
[17:36] <nubae> alongside properitary video card drivers
[17:36] <LaserJock> right, but it simplified a lot of stuff
[17:37] <nubae> and wacom tablets
[17:37] <LaserJock> there are certainly regressions
[17:37] <nubae> are all those users just no important? are we really that experminental?
[17:37] <LaserJock> no, not unimportant
[17:37] <Ahmuck> my wacom tablet works, but if i have to redo xorg, it's essentially dead
[17:37] <LaserJock> it's just impossible to please everybody all the time
[17:38] <Ahmuck> wacom tablets adn nvidia and ai cards are fairl aminstream
[17:38] <nubae> Ahmuck: problem is this is a cintiq tablet, the kind that is a screen too
[17:38] <nubae> thats why it totally messes with X
[17:38] <Ahmuck> mine is wacom bamboo
[17:38] <Ahmuck> well, it works sorta
[17:38] <Ahmuck> the presure isn't right
[17:38] <nubae> yeah bamboo should auto work
[17:38] <Ahmuck> and the erasure doesn't work
[17:38] <nubae> ah... except pressure of course
[17:39]  * LaserJock hates to think what nubae thinks of Ctrl-Alt-Backspace going away :-)
[17:39] <Ahmuck> it is ?
[17:40] <LaserJock> yes
[17:49] <loic-m> Btw, does anyone know how one goes to request short translations (like for a desktop file) in different languages?
[17:50] <LaserJock> loic-m: is the package in Main
[17:50] <LaserJock> ?
[17:51] <loic-m> yes
[17:51] <loic-m> I asked sistpoty why, he said it might be because it's used in edubuntu. I didn't check edubuntu dependencies though, but the package was like that already
[17:52] <loic-m> LaserJock: were you talking about tuxtype or the question about desktop entry?
[17:52] <LaserJock> loic-m: the .desktop translation issue
[17:53] <loic-m> I've got .desktop files for both main (tuxtype) and universe
[17:54] <loic-m> the only one for main is tuxtype. No I think of it, maybe I shouldn't have used an [fr] entry since main packages have their translations in a separate pkg
[17:55] <LaserJock> yeah, we have Rosetta magic for Main packages
[17:56] <loic-m> LaserJock but how do I get informed of the translations and get the .desktop file back to send upstream+Debian?
[17:57] <loic-m> LaserJock: (since it was a new file I guess the [fr] lines aren't a pb. Also, french desktop entries can be... special)
[17:57] <LaserJock> loic-m: once the .desktop template is in Rosetta you can download the .po files and recreate the .desktop
[17:58] <loic-m> I'll have to try that. And do you know what the process is for unuverse pkg?
[17:59] <LaserJock> well ... you might email ubuntu-translators
[17:59] <LaserJock> you might be able to manage the translation manually
[17:59] <loic-m> For translations, I hate how most applications go from the English Name_desription to the French description_Name and you always spend hours trying to find the app you're looking for :( (Kubuntu program trads are better)
[18:00] <loic-m> LaserJock: ubuntu-translators is a list where people from different language are able to provide translations?
[18:00] <LaserJock> loic-m: it's the general list for translators
[18:01] <LaserJock> loic-m:  a "heah, can you email with your translation of ...." might work
[18:01] <LaserJock> loic-m: to have LP do it you might ask launchpad-users list
[18:01] <loic-m> LaserJock: thanks a lot. I've been trying to find a solution like that for a few days
[18:02] <LaserJock> for an existing LP project you can upload a .pot of the .desktop and let translators do their thing, then download the .po files
[18:02] <LaserJock> but I know that the LP devs want to make .desktop translation specifically easier
[18:02] <loic-m> Do they also use po files for simple lines in .desktop files?
[18:03] <LaserJock> po files
[18:03] <LaserJock> Launchpad works in po files
[18:03] <loic-m> o.v.e.r.k.i.l.l.
[18:03] <LaserJock> that's part of the problem
[18:03] <LaserJock> you have to generate a  .pot and then a script to go from .po to .desktop
[18:03] <LaserJock> I've done it a few times, but it's not so fun to maintain
[18:04] <loic-m> LaserJock: and for man pages, if I translate a man page in french or get some translations, for pkg in universe, I just put the .po files in the pkg, no?
[18:05] <LaserJock> loic-m: I'm not sure
[18:08] <Ahmuck> submit the .po files to the package maintainer iirc
[18:09] <nubae> LaserJock: ctrl alt backspace is going away!!?
[18:11] <loic-m> Ahmuck: I am the pkg mainainer
[18:13] <loic-m> If there's any doc on that, I'll be happy to read it, but the MOTU doc doesn't really address translation topics
[18:13] <nubae> wow, have u guys taken a look at diigo.com?
[18:13] <nubae> its an awsome tool for educators, teachers and students
[18:13] <loic-m> nubae it's going away in default Xorg release, so it will be the same in most distributions
[18:14] <nubae> I guess X is just intent on making my life miserable... boy will it be fun in the LTSP labs without a alt, cntrl backspace
[18:15] <nubae> anyway... diigo.com
[18:15] <nubae> totally awsome... thats what facebook SHOULD be like
[18:16] <alkisg> nubae: huh? an example, please?
[18:16] <nubae> have u loooked at the site?
[18:16] <alkisg> I.e. you give a url which highlights a specific paragraph into a page?
[18:17] <LaserJock> loic-m: yes, generally for Universe we send people upstream
[18:17] <nubae> no its kind of a bad intro page
[18:17] <LaserJock> loic-m: since we don't have the lang-packs, etc.
[18:17] <nubae> take a look at this: http://groups.diigo.com/browse?cg_id=16
[18:17] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah, there has been lots of discussion about ctrl-alt-backspace in the last few days
[18:17] <nubae> one has groups and communities of people either by subject or area, but for education based stuff there is really a lot
[18:18] <nubae> so u can create your own group for a particular education project there
[18:18] <LaserJock> nubae: upstream xorg has turned it off by default, but apparently there is a xorg.conf switch to turn it back on
[18:18] <nubae> then have people visit/bookmark/follow it
[18:18]  * alkisg is watching the diigo video intro...
[18:19] <nubae> welp.... then we know what I'll be doing
[18:19] <nubae> I'll tweet the instructions across the net
[18:19] <Ahmuck> what's the purpose of swtiching it off?
[18:19] <nubae> :-)
[18:19] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: apparently people hit it accidentablly and lose data
[18:19] <LaserJock> *accidentally
[18:19] <nubae> yeah and maybe security
[18:20] <nubae> another step towards making ubuntu idiot proof, and more windows like...
[18:20] <nubae> or better said X in general
[18:20] <Ahmuck> i don't have a real problem with it bieng windows like on the gui, but underneath is getting to be a problem
[18:20] <LaserJock> well, I don't know that I'd say idiot proff necessarily
[18:21] <Ahmuck> i know they were looking at LUK
[18:21] <Ahmuck> which i thought was great,b ut also had concerns about
[18:21] <nubae> LUK?
[18:21] <LaserJock> one of the people who it happens to is a kernel hacker and former Debian Project Leader ;-)
[18:21] <Ahmuck> Linux Unified Kernel
[18:21] <Ahmuck> wil run windows programs natively
[18:22] <nubae> we should be looking at microkernels
[18:22] <Ahmuck> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Unified_Kernel
[18:22] <Ahmuck> This kernel imports all the key features of the Windows operating system kernel into the Linux kernel to support both Linux and Windows applications and device drivers.
[18:22] <loic-m> LaserJock: indeed, but knowing how to do that is still useful (since I can always translate at least in my language, and for "pet" packages it's interesting)
[18:23] <LaserJock> loic-m: yeah
[18:23] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: that sounds like a real mess
[18:25] <nubae> it sounds like wine on top of a linux kernel
[18:25] <nubae> customised kernel
[18:26] <nubae> LaserJock: did u take a look at diigo.com?
[18:26] <Ahmuck> it's not wine. but it's coming.  and rest assured if it does what it says it can, many distros will change
[18:26] <Ahmuck> and if it comes down to supporting linux/windows i'll quite support for sure
[18:27] <Ahmuck> it's user utopia
[18:27] <nubae> they have 2 sections for education and a collection of thousands of education related groups and projects
[18:27] <nubae> http://groups.diigo.com/groups/educators
[18:27] <nubae> there is an example
[18:28] <nubae> its the perfect place to put projects after they have been kinda accepted into brainstorm
[18:28] <LaserJock> nubae: I looked at it when i was looking for a good Google Notebook type app
[18:28] <LaserJock> nubae: it didn't seem very useful for me personally, but I can see how it could be good for education
[18:28] <nubae> well, I see the strength in its communities
[18:29] <LaserJock> yeah, I just wanted a place to put my stuff
[18:29] <nubae> not the note taking stuff... not interested in that, take a look at the link I sent and ull see what I mean
[18:30] <nubae> it would be a great way to recruit people for projects
[18:30] <LaserJock> yeah, I've just already got information overload and am trying to lower my amount of social networking :-)
[18:30] <nubae> manage them
[18:30] <nubae> right, but for anyone needing contacts
[18:30] <nubae> in education
[18:30] <nubae> we can send them here
[18:31] <nubae> there is more edu content there than I have seen anywhere else
[18:31] <nubae> with real authors that one can connect with
[18:31] <nubae> seems like the facebook for educational institutions
[18:31] <nubae> anyway, I signed up and intend to find out some more on how to get involved with communities
[18:32] <LaserJock> would be good for a resources page
[18:32] <nubae> I'll create an edubuntu link there if there isnt one already
[18:32] <nubae> well resources, people, communities
[18:34] <nubae> it synchs with delicious too for your bookmarks
[18:34] <nubae> so thats really neat
[18:34] <LaserJock> mhm
[18:35] <LaserJock> we just need to figure out how to deal with information overload
[18:36] <nubae> well... like all these sites, its selective
[18:37] <LaserJock> too many mailing lists, too many RSS feeds, too many sites, etc.
[18:37] <nubae> u can make your dashboard as simple or as complex as u like
[18:37] <LaserJock> but they're all really good
[18:37] <nubae> I dont agree... its actually very organised when u link them all together
[18:37] <nubae> for example... from my site, I syndicate through to the rest
[18:37] <nubae> my tweets to twitter, to identi.ca
[18:37] <LaserJock> right, but my problem is just too much coming at me
[18:37] <nubae> my bookmarks to delicious
[18:38] <LaserJock> it's like trying to drink from a firehose
[18:38] <nubae> concentrate on the outgoing ;-)
[18:38] <nubae> u are a producer
[18:38] <Ahmuck> diarrhea?
[18:38] <LaserJock> but I'm not just a producer
[18:38] <Ahmuck> drinking is incoming
[18:38] <nubae> well, when u have the time to consume?
[18:38] <LaserJock> I can spend 4 hrs/day just keeping up with what Ubuntu is doing
[18:39] <LaserJock> let alone upstreams, Debian, Education in general, etc.
[18:39] <LaserJock> there's just so much stuff flying at me
[18:40] <nubae> yeah I hear ya... so digest and let out a fine misty spray of quality bite sized info
[18:40] <nubae> ;-)
[18:41] <nubae> I actually enjoy the interlinkedness of it all... I have my identi.ca linked to my phone, which is linked to twitter, linked to facebook status, linked to my website, including diggs from digg
[18:41] <LaserJock> having the different technologies just makes it time consuming
[18:42] <nubae> no.... link em all up
[18:42] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't like all that stuff
[18:42] <nubae> then u just have one place to hit send and voila syndicated
[18:42] <LaserJock> I want to look at certain things at certain times
[18:42] <LaserJock> for instance, I use twitter and identica for different things
[18:42] <nubae> well that choice is always there
[18:42] <nubae> actually, so do I
[18:43] <nubae> though I link them when I advertise a blog
[18:43] <nubae> I love it... I think people havent seen have the potential out there with all these sites along side each other
[18:44] <nubae> with xmpp support in these apps, we are going to be able to do some might fun stuff
[18:44] <nubae> cross all communication streams
[18:44] <nubae> in the whakiest of ways
[18:46] <nubae> I get identi.ca's gtalk bot to tweet me
[18:46] <LaserJock> yeah, I turned that off
[18:46] <nubae> specially cause sugar bugsquad is a member there
[18:46] <nubae> so I get to see what comes through
[18:46] <LaserJock> I just have issues with just *too* much
[18:46] <nubae> seee... thats pretty neat use
[18:47] <nubae> although email works just as well :p
[18:47] <LaserJock> neat, yes
[18:47] <LaserJock> easy to get into trouble with, definately
[18:47] <nubae> trouble?
[18:47] <LaserJock> it's just so easy to get too much information
[18:48] <LaserJock> and you end up spending enormous amounts of time trying to digest information
[18:48] <nubae> well its about getting info in a different format, we still take in the same amount
[18:48] <nubae> just instead of TV and radio
[18:48] <nubae> its a tweet here and there
[18:49] <at0m|c> i dont feel the urge to know when people are tired or getting a beer
[18:49] <nubae> at0m|c: twitter rarely has that kind of info
[18:50] <nubae> depends on your contacts i suppose, but facebook is MUCH more time wasting
[18:50] <nubae> as is myspace etc
[18:50] <at0m|c> i just see that at friend's places... even them using it are annoyed by it eh
[18:50] <nubae> the new gen are better
[18:51] <at0m|c> yea guess all their contacts feel like the need to let everyone know most trivial things
[18:51] <at0m|c> s/the/they
[18:51] <nubae> it all depends how u use the technology..
[18:51] <nubae> like anything it can be used for good or bad
[18:51] <LaserJock> nubae: if it was the same amount it wouldn't be so bad
[18:51] <at0m|c> sure, i'm just not taking the risk :>
[18:52] <nubae> but say u have a blog or a website, and u want to get it marketed or promoted... these services are perfect for that
[18:52] <LaserJock> but I get lots and lots more informationn through these newer technologies
[18:52] <at0m|c> nubae, sure, for professionals that's different
[18:52] <LaserJock> microblogging alone can double the amount of time I spend dealing with things
[18:52] <at0m|c> but didn't like myspace start of as a musicians site to show off new material
[18:52] <nubae> come one, a microblog takes less than a minute to write
[18:53] <nubae> at0m|c: yes, but it sucked
[18:53] <nubae> the difference is the interconnectedness of all these new gen technologies
[18:53] <nubae> myspace was never collaborative in the same way
[18:54] <nubae> it was just a place for kids to experiment with filling out forms and seeing their writing online
[18:55] <nubae> LaserJock: hah! finally got a picture of u....
[18:55] <nubae> :-)
[18:55] <LaserJock> nubae: uh oh
[18:56] <LaserJock> nubae: I don't produce that much information
[18:56] <LaserJock> nubae: it's the reading and integrating that's so time consuming
[18:56] <nubae> yeah, I hear ya
[18:56] <nubae> I try and avoid that
[18:57] <LaserJock> so I can go through several hundred emails a day
[18:57] <LaserJock> similar amounts of dents and tweets
[18:57] <nubae> man... it would sure be a good time to build a nice data mining robot for people
[18:57] <LaserJock> something like 50 blog posts
[18:57] <nubae> yeah... have u thought about putting ads on your blog yet?
[18:57] <LaserJock> and then a lot of that stuff can require resposnes
[18:58] <nubae> yeah the responses are the bitch
[18:58] <nubae> but still, I'd rather have a responsive blog than one no one reads
[18:58] <LaserJock> nubae: I've thought about it some. My blogs are on wordpress.com right now, which doesn't let you do advertising so much
[18:59] <nubae> bah... so move to habari
[18:59] <nubae> far better anyway
[18:59] <LaserJock> moving around isn't trivial
[18:59] <nubae> the stats engine I have piwik, is the shiznit...
[18:59] <nubae> sure it is
[18:59] <nubae> u can export from wordpress to habari with button presses
[19:00] <LaserJock> right, but I'm hosted on wordpress.com so the URL would change
[19:00] <nubae> and habari is totally open and u can advertise as much as u want
[19:00] <nubae> plus plugins for adsense et all already exist
[19:00] <nubae> oh....
[19:00] <LaserJock> I can't afford to host my own blog generally
[19:00] <nubae> u have a wordpress url?
[19:00] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:01] <nubae> that kinda sucks, but guess u could redirect
[19:01] <LaserJock> I have a domain name, but wordpress.com handles getting dugg much much better ;-)
[19:01] <nubae> I pay I think it is 60$ for a virtual dedicated server
[19:01] <nubae> where I currently host 4 sites
[19:02] <nubae> the ltsp bot
[19:02] <LaserJock> yeah, I pay $0 and I'm not sure I can really afford to pay for hosting
[19:02] <nubae> and get a decent amount of traffic... and never have a problem...
[19:02] <stgraber> nubae: I pay 30$ for a dedicated server with 100Mbit/s unmettered internet :)
[19:03] <nubae> well, u have collaueges and friends
[19:03] <nubae> stgraber: lucky bastard :-)
[19:03] <stgraber> nope, that's a regular offer from an hosting company
[19:03] <nubae> stgraber: was talking to LaserJock
[19:03] <nubae> mentioning he could get free hosting from u or me for example
[19:03] <stgraber> hehe
[19:04] <LaserJock> well, I'm already doing that now, that's where I park laserjock.us
[19:04] <LaserJock> but one digg or slashdot can use the bandwidth pretty fast
[19:04] <nubae> mine is 100mb unlimited too
[19:04] <stgraber> I also have a spare DELL 750 (rackmount 1U) here, if someone wants to pay for the DC hosting :)
[19:05] <LaserJock> I've been wanting to do dreamhost for a while
[19:05] <nubae> although the other day my server ran out of ram during a digg spike
[19:05] <nubae> lol
[19:05] <LaserJock> but just haven't worked up to forking over the money for it
[19:05] <nubae> its of course nice to have your own machine, gives u piece of mind
[19:06] <LaserJock> for my work on *buntu it'd be nice to have a decent host for things
[19:06] <nubae> I had 2 dedicated ones before, debian boxes in Germany, but was paying $50 per month
[19:06] <stgraber> nubae: http://www.kimsufi.co.uk/ though it's better from the french website as the euro prices are lower
[19:06] <LaserJock> where I can run scripts, etc.
[19:07] <nubae> LaserJock: really, u should be allowed to do that at edubuntu.org
[19:07] <LaserJock> we're eventually supposed to be able to use people.ubuntu.com, but I'm not sure we're going to get cron access there
[19:07] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah, well, only a few Canonical people can get on edubuntu.org
[19:07] <stgraber> nubae: http://www.isgenug.de/ 25.99 here 19.99 on the french website :)
[19:08] <nubae> ironic seeing as no one actually works on the site :-)
[19:08] <nubae> I got mine from webtropia.com
[19:08] <LaserJock> after some machines got hacked into they tightened up a bit
[19:08] <LaserJock> I think most all machines are Canonical-only
[19:08] <stgraber> fun, they are doing root servers with Atom CPUs :)
[19:09] <stgraber> LaserJock: yeah, what's in DC is canonical-only for shell access, code access requires security review of all code uploaded
[19:09] <nubae> stgraber: those are root dedicated or virtual?
[19:10] <nubae> kimsufi
[19:10] <stgraber> root
[19:10] <nubae> ok, thats a really good deal then
[19:10] <stgraber> yeah
[19:10] <nubae> might change, I'm on godaddy right now
[19:10] <nubae> silly choice, but i had to pick something
[19:11] <LaserJock> I'm looking for like $5-$10/month :-)
[19:11] <LaserJock> can't get much that's decent
[19:11] <nubae> LaserJock: I'll gladly give u space and shell access to my server if u want it without payment
[19:12] <LaserJock> nubae: nah, that's ok
[19:13] <nubae> stgraber: funny thing is, a while back I told them it was strange I couldnt get onto port 6667 with my shell irc client, to which they responded
[19:13] <nubae> no we've blocked irc access
[19:13] <nubae> so I changed the port number and voila got through
[19:13] <stgraber> ovh blocks IRC as well but you can unlock it through the web UI
[19:13] <LaserJock> my school blogs 6667 only
[19:13] <nubae> scares me a little to think that they have such a limited sense of security
[19:13] <stgraber> it's to avoid worms using IRC for communication, you have to give the IRC server IPs and they'll unlock theme
[19:14] <stgraber> *them
[19:14] <stgraber> or just use IRC over SSL :)
[19:14] <nubae> if they knew I was not only running irc scripts, but a full time bot on there, I'm sure they'd freak
[19:14] <stgraber> or even connect on 6667 but using IPV6 (OVH/kimsufi provides a /64 native IPV6) that's unfiltered
[19:15] <nubae> yeah theres lots a of ways to get around
[19:15] <nubae> proxies too
[19:16] <nubae> like plugging gushing water holes with kleenex
[19:16] <stgraber> only thing they really don't like is P2P, I used to have a torrent client to seed Ubuntu .iso but they asked me to stop it ...
[19:17] <stgraber> now I just moved it to another dedicated server I manage in Germany :)
[19:17] <stgraber> (seeding 2TB or so of Ubuntu .iso / month)
[19:17] <nubae> yeah I ran rtorrent on my webtropia account, but the are known to turn a blind eye
[19:17] <LaserJock> well, I'm not a fan of P2P so I'd be ok without it ;-)
[19:17] <nubae> p2p is the only real way to us the full capacity of a 100mb line
[19:18] <LaserJock> it's always so darn slow for me I just don't bother
[19:18] <nubae> LaserJock: no private sites?
[19:18] <LaserJock> I think I've used a torrent maybe 5 times
[19:19] <nubae> what kinda stuff do u like, tv or films?
[19:19] <LaserJock> I've only ever done .isos
[19:19] <LaserJock> I don't watch TV or movies generally, no time
[19:19] <LaserJock> it's either work or Ubuntu
[19:20] <nubae> hmmm... how about knoweledge like manuals
[19:20] <nubae> docus, ebooks
[19:20] <nubae> self learning materials
[19:20] <LaserJock> never used them
[19:20] <LaserJock> ebooks that is
[19:20] <LaserJock> I've just never found a use for torrents
[19:25] <nubae> i tend to download tv shows since we cant get them at all in Europe
[19:25] <nubae> these private sites download at the maximum bandwidth so u have a series in a couple of minutes
[19:33] <nubae> stgraber: so did u say u have a host that wouldnt mind the use of rtorrent?
[19:36] <stgraber> nubae: yes, klein-edv.de as long as they don't receive complaint from the publisher :)
[19:38]  * LaserJock renames seeds yet again
[19:39] <nubae> heh, I doubt they'd know anything is even running, other than massive traffic spikes
[19:39] <nubae> rtorrent can encrypt its connections
[19:41] <nubae> ooof but they're not cheap
[19:41] <nubae> webtropia is cheaper
[19:43] <stgraber> indeed, klein is quite expensive :) but they provide gigabit over 7-8 different providers so that's hyper-fast :)
[19:43] <stgraber> and they don't really care what you're doing with your internet
[19:43] <stgraber> cheap hosters usually care because they are looking for a reason to break the contract :) (they don't like people using all the bandwidth)
[19:44] <nubae> heh yeah
[19:44] <nubae> Laserjock on twitter:   3     Following                          34     Followers
[19:45] <nubae> info hub u are
[19:46] <LaserJock> nubae: not so much, I stopped following people who were on identica
[19:46] <LaserJock> I was planning to use twitter for politics ;-)
[19:47] <LaserJock> since most of the FLOSS people don't appreciate my politics
[19:48] <nubae> lol
[19:48] <nubae> yeah I heard through the grapevine u were a right wing fascist :p
[19:48] <nubae> j/k....
[19:49] <LaserJock> right wing, yes
[19:49] <LaserJock> fascist, I don't *think* so at least ;-p
[19:49] <nubae> I was just kidding
[19:49] <nubae> bad European humour
[19:50] <nubae> its good though, so u split your tagged blogs and send them off in 2 directions
[19:51] <LaserJock> well, there's no reason to be obnoxious
[19:51] <LaserJock> but I want to be able to just talk without getting a bunch of hate mail every time
[19:51] <nubae> yeah was a bad thoughtless comment
[19:51] <LaserJock> that wasn't meant towards you
[19:52] <LaserJock> :-)
[19:52] <nubae> oh
[19:52] <nubae> :-)
[19:52] <LaserJock> I was saying "there's no reason why blogging needs to be obnoxious for people, so it's good to categorize if you're going to be controversial"
[19:52] <nubae> ah yes
[19:53] <nubae> thing is.... open source seems to kinda go with left wing politics
[19:53] <LaserJock> it does in general
[19:53] <LaserJock> so I try to provide a little balance without being annoying :-)
[19:53] <nubae> obama seems to be reneging on all his promises anyway
[19:54] <LaserJock> of course, he's a politician
[19:54] <nubae> yeah but he has such conviction with his change speeches
[19:54] <LaserJock> he's already running for 2012 elections
[19:55] <nubae> for once I wish they'd just do what they say they're going to instead of pretending they just found out a whole bunch of impossible obstacles
[22:20] <Ahmuck> oss is going to have to close in part to be mainstream.  how else would brother be able to snoop?
[22:23] <nubae> What to Britney Spears and Obama have in common?
[22:30] <LaserJock> nubae: what?
[22:35] <nubae> they both tweet about great changes that never happen
[22:35] <nubae> :p
[22:35] <nubae> i totally just made that up... just thought it was funny they both actually do use twitter
[22:38] <LaserJock> yeah, lots of politicians and famous people are on twitter
[22:38] <LaserJock> it's kinda odd
[22:41] <nubae> sheeple
[22:42] <nubae> problem with identi.ca is its name
[22:42] <LaserJock> anybody got any thoughts on the long descriptions for edubuntu-desktop?
[22:42] <nubae> twitter is just much more fun
[22:42] <nubae> long descriptions?
[22:43] <LaserJock> each package has a short and long description
[22:43] <LaserJock> the current long description isn't very descriptive
[22:43] <nubae> oh right
[22:44] <nubae> how man chars?
[22:44] <nubae> about a tweet in lenght?
[22:44] <nubae> :p
[22:44] <LaserJock> there's no limit really
[22:45] <nubae> hmm its hard to lengthen that out
[22:47] <nubae> the set of packages that makes up the educational addon applications known as edubuntu, which include applications for children from ages 4-9, teenagers frin 10-16, and young adults from 16-21
[22:47] <nubae> something like that?
[22:47] <LaserJock> right now it says "This package depends on all of the packages in the edubuntu desktop system"
[22:48] <LaserJock> hmm
[22:50] <nubae> no?
[22:51] <LaserJock> well, that spends a lot of time talking about ages, etc.
[22:52] <nubae> well thats important, to understand its split into age groups
[22:52] <nubae> we could take out the ages I guess
[22:52] <LaserJock> yeah, but that doesn't really do anything for edubuntu-desktop
[22:52] <nubae> and add somehting more
[22:53] <nubae> well its a metapackage, but we cant really say that
[22:53] <LaserJock> we can point to ubuntu-edu-*
[22:53] <nubae> how about what I wrote above and then inclusion of something like, it also includes the artwork, icons, and edubuntu color and style
[22:54] <nubae> I think I'm too tired to be giving good answers on that right now... didnt sleep at all last night, and its now 11.54 pm here
[22:54] <LaserJock> go to bed!
[22:54] <nubae> waiting for my classmate to upgrade... damn thing is slow as molasses
[22:55] <nubae> cant, have to finish a website too
[22:55] <nubae> I snowed myself under
[22:55] <nubae> also doesnt help Im an insomniac
[22:57] <nubae> http://twitter.com/strjstrjkyufk  <--- didnt take them long to start spamming twitter


[01:59] <hggdh> oh. time for netsplits. So far, not many affected
[06:39] <elky> done
[08:06] <k1l> done
[08:07] <DJones> 1st trolling attempt was kicked by el k y
[08:08] <DJones> Looks to have been removed from -ot in the past for posting links as well
[08:08] <k1l> i am just grep'ing my logs
[08:09] <k1l> ok, if the bantracker already got autocomplete for that nick,....
[08:25] <ikonia> DJones: thanks for the trusty correction yesterday, my mind was thinking about something else and my alphabet went out of the window
[08:25] <bazhang> got superjoe in PM
[08:26] <DJones> ikonia: No worries, with the short lifespans now I keep having to think about whats still supported
[08:27] <DJones> bazhang: Do they seem reasonable or irate
[08:28] <bazhang> DJones, drunk and looking for *friends*
[08:28] <DJones> Right, maybe they should be in defocus
[08:28] <bazhang> heheNO
[08:29] <bazhang> whichever offtopic channel I suggest they will just start making issues
[08:29] <bazhang> so I suggested none
[08:30] <DJones> Probably the best policy, rather than transfering the issue
[08:30] <bazhang> he's taken to trolling multiple other support channels instead
[15:25] <IsaacTBest> Ok?
[15:25] <IsaacTBest> what is this Node?
[15:26] <Pici> hmm?
[15:26] <IsaacTBest> OMG
[15:26] <IsaacTBest> is this disame as the last irc too?
[15:27] <Pici> This is an IRC channel on freenode.  It is the home of the IRC operator team.
[15:27] <Pici> Is there something we can help you with?
[15:27] <IsaacTBest> Oh..
[15:28] <IsaacTBest> can you tell me how ubuntu start?
[15:28] <Pici> If you're here because of what ubottu told you, you can feel free to ignore it.
[15:28] <Pici> #ubuntu-offtopic should be able to help you with that.
[15:29] <IsaacTBest> thanks :)
[16:11] <IsaacTBest> thanks :)
[16:11] <IsaacTBest> Ubuntu corrupt my windows
[16:11] <Pici> IsaacTBest: Please keep in mind that #ubuntu-ops is not a support channel. We are here to facilitate issues with the channels themselves.
[16:12] <IsaacTBest> ok
[16:15] <hggdh> IsaacTBest: if there is nothing else we can do for you, please /part this channel


[16:02] <seb128> hey
[16:03] <seb128> ogra_, hey
[16:03] <seb128> sorry I'm a bit late
[16:03] <seb128> did you guys start?
[16:03] <ogra_> nope
[16:03] <ogra_> i totally forgot about it
[16:04]  * ogra_ is knee deep in debugging the broken images ...
[16:04] <ogra_> so thats the first thing i have to report
[16:04] <seb128> ogra_, let's start with that then
[16:04] <seb128> how is the debugging going?
[16:04] <ogra_> all available images are currently broken :(
[16:04] <seb128> do you need help? what did you figure so far?
[16:05] <ogra_> well
[16:06] <ogra_> what i figured is that X doesnt start ... i can hack around it by adding break=top to the kernel cmdline ... then ...'
[16:06] <ogra_> remounting the disk rw and making g-s-d unexecutable
[16:06] <ogra_> so i suspect there are two distinct bugs
[16:06] <seb128> so it's a g-s-d issue?
[16:07] <ogra_> one is surely g-s-d
[16:07] <seb128> in the new rotation code?
[16:07] <ogra_> but the other seems to be filesystem related or mountall or so
[16:07] <seb128> should we drop the feature and see if that makes tomorrow's daily work?
[16:07] <ogra_> not yet
[16:08] <ogra_> i wont stop hitting it until i know whats going on ... probably g-s-d is just fallout of filesystem issues
[16:08] <seb128> ok
[16:08] <ogra_> could also be mountall (seems /tmp isnt cleaned up)
[16:08] <seb128> desktop is having a sprint next week
[16:08] <seb128> I hope we have a working image monday
[16:08] <ogra_> yeah, i'll have it working one way or the other for you on the weekend
[16:08] <seb128> thanks
[16:08] <ogra_> or latest monday
[16:09] <seb128> let me know if I can help
[16:09] <ogra_> is that a physical sprint (TZ)
[16:09] <seb128> yes, physical in London
[16:09] <seb128> going to see the new Canonical office ;-)
[16:10] <ogra_> bah
[16:10] <ogra_> envy !
[16:10] <seb128> hehe
[16:10] <seb128> ok, on that note, what else happened this week?
[16:10] <ogra_> so beyond the breakage ...
[16:10] <seb128> we got the rotation feature moved in g-s-d
[16:10] <ogra_> g-s-d grep rotation code :P
[16:10] <ogra_> and i dropped the stuff from the ubuntu=-defaults-nexus7 package
[16:11] <ogra_> s/grep/grew/
[16:12] <ogra_> well, beyond that not much happened i think
[16:12]  * seb128 is looking at raring-changes and his blueprints' email folder
[16:12] <ogra_> we have a dedicated builder now ...
[16:12] <seb128> upstart session job is getting there
[16:12] <ogra_> for the images
[16:12] <ogra_> yeah
[16:12] <seb128> so I hope we can jump on that soon
[16:12] <ogra_> yup, that should save us another lot
[16:12] <seb128> I didn't have time to update the wiki for "how to contribute", still on my list for next week though
[16:13] <ogra_> i cant currently provide any ram measurements or so ...
[16:13] <ogra_> since my device is stuck in the installer :)
[16:13] <seb128> ok
[16:14] <seb128> so it was somewhat of a slow progress week, but that's ok, we had some good action in the previous ones, it can't always be at this level
[16:14] <seb128> some of us as sprinting with a focus on the next next week
[16:14] <seb128> I will try to do daily updates one way or another
[16:14] <ogra_> great
[16:14] <seb128> e.g blog post of email to ubuntu-devel
[16:14] <seb128> or*
[16:15] <ogra_> right, we didnt even announce today
[16:15] <seb128> oh, there was also some activity upstream on the "button get stucked" bug
[16:15] <seb128> but it seems that's not enough to fix the issue yet
[16:15] <ogra_> yeah, didnt go forward
[16:15] <seb128> it's moving though, so with some luck we will get it fixed soon
[16:16] <ogra_> but there were some test packages
[16:16] <ogra_> yeah, lots better than for the recent weeks
[16:16] <seb128> oh
[16:16] <seb128> I almost forgot
[16:16] <seb128> Qt5 got uploaded and we managed to get most of it through source and binary NEW
[16:17] <seb128> it's in raring-proposed
[16:17] <seb128> qtbase failed to build on powerpc
[16:17] <seb128> so it will not move to raring yet
[16:17] <seb128> but that's getting close
[16:17] <ogra_> yeah
[16:17] <seb128> which means the phone sdk will be easy to install in raring soon, without ppa ;-)
[16:17] <ogra_> wohoo
[16:19] <ogra_> well ... is anone else here who wants to speak up ?
[16:19] <seb128> I hope that the news of steam being available in the software-center doesn't ruin productivity around in the next weeks :p
[16:19] <ogra_> haha
[16:19] <ogra_> it surely will
[16:19] <vibhav> :D
[16:19] <ogra_> we should talk to valve if they could put something in that only allows you to play after you helped with nx7 work
[16:19] <ogra_> should also raise our awareness
[16:19] <ogra_> :)
[16:20] <ogra_> doesnt look like we have much community coverage today
[16:20] <ogra_> xnox, anything new and exciting about the installer (apart from the fact that it doesnt work)
[16:21]  * xnox shakes fist at ogra_
[16:21] <ogra_> heh
[16:21] <xnox> not much on nexus7 front. upstart-desktop session seems to be almost complete.
[16:22] <ogra_> yeah, seb said so above
[16:22] <ogra_> plars, are there regular test installs happening for the nexus7 ?
[16:23]  * ogra_ wonders why nobody noticed the current breakage
[16:23] <plars> ogra_: not automated because we haven't been able to make the preseeding stuff work so far, but manual as time allows. I think psivaa was complaining about something on nexus7 today in fact?
[16:24] <plars> ogra_: we do have some automated tests, but they update each day for now
[16:24] <ogra_> well, it would be good to have a test around mid-week regulary
[16:24] <plars> ogra_: why mid-week? is there something that happens early-mid week?
[16:25] <ogra_> so we still have old images to compare with that possibly worked (which we dont now since the breakage dates back a  week it seems)
[16:25] <ogra_> and still some days to fix it before the weekend
[16:25] <ogra_> plars, we only keep three images
[16:25] <ogra_> and due to the fact that we dont build milestones there is no functional image at all now
[16:25] <plars> ogra_: I'll see what we can set up, also mine is still out for repair but I hope to have it back "soon"
[16:26] <ogra_> k
[16:26] <seb128> plars, do you know what's happening also about the daily measures for ram usage?
[16:27] <plars> seb128: those are the automated jobs I mentioned, I have those going on desktop as well as nexus7, graphing should land for those in the dashboard sometime next week
[16:27] <plars> seb128: eventstat wakeups per second too
[16:27] <seb128> plars, excellent!
[16:27] <plars> seb128: those are both currently tested on an idle, freshly booted system at the moment. If there are some other workloads you think would be interesting, we can add them
[16:27] <seb128> looking forward having that
[16:28] <plars> seb128: if you just want the raw data for now, I can point you at that
[16:28] <seb128> yes, didrocks had a document with some scenarios
[16:28] <seb128> plars, let's talk next week, I'm interested by not today (friday 5:30pm ;-)
[16:28] <plars> seb128: understand
[16:29] <seb128> plars, but we should probably have some scenarios like "use the dash 100 times"
[16:29] <plars> for anyone who might be, the jobs are at: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-amd64-install-idle-vm/ and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-armhf-upgrade-idle-nexus702/
[16:29] <plars> (forgive the missing ones in the first link, recently modified the job to make it run 3 times instead of 1 and had some things to fix)
[16:31] <seb128> ok
[16:31] <seb128> plars, thanks
[16:31] <seb128> anything else?
[16:31] <ogra_> nope
[16:32] <ogra_> so lets shut down then
[16:33] <seb128> right
[16:33] <seb128> have a good w.e everyone!
[16:33] <ogra_> going once ...
[16:33] <ogra_> twice ...
[16:33] <ogra_> adjouorned
[16:33] <ogra_> enjoy your weekends
[16:33] <seb128> ogra_, let me know if I can help debugging the installer issues
[16:33] <seb128> I'm just going to reboot
[16:33] <ogra_> seb128, well, probably g-s-d stuff later
[16:33] <ogra_> i'm still poking on the filesystem
[16:33] <seb128> my video driver is out of order
[16:34] <seb128> I can't restart unity, I get intel flush locking errors
[16:34] <seb128> ok
[16:34] <seb128> brb
[16:34] <ogra_> bye
[18:03] <tgm4883> meeting time?
[18:04] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I just got here myself
[18:04] <tgm4883> is there an agenda?
[18:05]  * bobweaver needs to  ake coffee he was up all night last night hacking a new webbrowser for TV
[18:05]  * bobweaver will be back in 5 min
[18:05] <CrestedNewt> hiya guys
[18:07] <tgm4883> Doesn't look like there is much agenda
[18:07] <tgm4883> #startmeeting
[18:07] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 15 18:07:30 2013 UTC.  The chair is tgm4883. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:07] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:07] <CrestedNewt> I don't have anything really
[18:07] <tgm4883> #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883
[18:07] <meetingology> Current chairs: CrestedNewt tgm4883
[18:08] <tgm4883> I'll let CrestedNewt lead this meeting
[18:08] <CrestedNewt> OK, I had a Google hangout with bobweaver last sunday which was great
[18:08] <CrestedNewt> 'after' he had his coffee - so hopefully he will be back in a minute
[18:09] <bobweaver> 3 min
[18:09] <bobweaver> OK
[18:09] <bobweaver> #Topic arm port
[18:10] <bobweaver> we are ready and have a img
[18:10] <tgm4883> #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883 bobweaver
[18:10] <meetingology> Current chairs: CrestedNewt bobweaver tgm4883
[18:10] <tgm4883> #Topic arm port
[18:10] <bobweaver> thing is I am trying to get virtual arm set up
[18:10] <bobweaver> I got a letter from canonical saying that there going to get me some hardware to test on
[18:10] <bobweaver> (will )
[18:11] <bobweaver> we will see how that works out
[18:11] <CrestedNewt> OK, Bobweaver, I have contacted ARM in the UK looking for a good match for you in the USA to get you a board. I have had no response as yet so I am planning on talking to them on Monday.
[18:11] <bobweaver> cool CrestedNewt
[18:11] <bobweaver> any more questions about arm?
[18:12] <CrestedNewt> #action CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA
[18:12] <meetingology> ACTION: CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA
[18:12] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  needs to stay in touch with canonical
[18:12] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  needs to stay in touch with canonical
[18:12] <bobweaver> #topic Qt5/qml2
[18:13] <bobweaver> so I am porting weverything over to qt5/qml2
[18:13] <bobweaver> this is a big thing and is going to take me some time
[18:13] <bobweaver> good news about this is though I almost have all the tools that are needed for unity 2d to be running on qt5/qml2
[18:14] <bobweaver> then on the 21 (if I get done by then) I will be porting it all to the Phone
[18:14]  * tgm4883 tries to not make a comment about duke nukem
[18:14] <bobweaver> #action  keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:14] <meetingology> ACTION: keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:15] <bobweaver> #action keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:15] <meetingology> ACTION: keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:15] <CrestedNewt> Is the phone OS still due out the end of this month or has that date lapsed doe we know?
[18:15] <bobweaver> feb 21
[18:15] <tgm4883> bobweaver, you're suppose to put your nick in there as well
[18:16] <bobweaver> woops
[18:16] <bobweaver> there is 3 of us lol
[18:16] <bobweaver> any more questions about qt5/qml2 ?
[18:16] <CrestedNewt> #action  bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:16] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:17] <CrestedNewt> #action bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:17] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:17] <CrestedNewt> I have none
[18:17] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  ?
[18:17] <tgm4883> I have no questions
[18:17] <bobweaver> #topic wayland
[18:17] <bobweaver> one can run wayland (if they have the hardware) and qt5 lets us do this
[18:18] <CrestedNewt> OK, apologies for being a bit backward here - what is wayland?
[18:18] <bobweaver> I will be pushing a example of this after porting of qt5 is done
[18:18] <bobweaver> !wayland
[18:18] <bobweaver> stupid bot
[18:18] <bobweaver> !X
[18:18]  * tgm4883 wonders why were worrying about wayland
[18:19] <bobweaver> because it is cool
[18:19] <bobweaver> and I like the idea
[18:19] <tgm4883> bobweaver, ah, so Ubuntu TV is going to be the new Duke Nukem Forever?
[18:19] <bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  if wayland is a  servre just like X
[18:20] <CrestedNewt> I've just looked it up :D
[18:20] <bobweaver> But that said I want 3 different ports
[18:20] <bobweaver> 1)  wayland 2) X    ok only 2 at the moment
[18:21] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  it is not that I am going to target wayland it is more that it works so why not show it off :)
[18:21] <mhall119> I don't see why it should matter, as long as the toolkit supports the underlying display server (which Qt does)
[18:21] <bobweaver> and (I dont know what Duke Nukem is
[18:21] <mhall119> bobweaver: it's a game that's been in development for like 20 years
[18:21] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I would like to have a downloadable, supported ISO at some point
[18:22] <tgm4883> mhall119, it was released after 15 years of development
[18:22] <mhall119> tgm4883: they released it?
[18:22] <mhall119> when did that happen?
[18:22] <bobweaver> then make it what does that have to do with wayland or display server ?
[18:22] <tgm4883> bobweaver, mhall119 and the reason it was in development for 15 years, was because they'd get close to releasing it then see a new cool technology that was out that they had to use
[18:22] <tgm4883> mhall119, yes, it got pretty bad reviews
[18:22] <bobweaver> ahh I see
[18:23] <mhall119> bobweaver: it's usually a reference made when software is in a constant state of "almost ready to release" and they goes back for more changes
[18:23] <bobweaver> #action tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking
[18:23] <meetingology> ACTION: tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking
[18:23] <tgm4883> bobweaver, mhall119 the length of time something is in development is directly proportional to what the community expects from it
[18:23] <CrestedNewt> Basically what tgm4883 is saying is that we need to concentrate on getting an image out that works currently. Am I correct?
[18:23] <bobweaver> there is one image out there that works
[18:23] <tgm4883> so the longer it takes to make something, the more perfect it better be
[18:23] <mhall119> the good news is that bobweaver will soon have all the Phone code available
[18:24] <tgm4883> I don't know of a single supported ISO for Ubuntu TV
[18:24] <tgm4883> Yea I don't see Ubuntu TV listed at http://releases.ubuntu.com/
[18:24] <bobweaver> only on 12.04 but it is something. Or people can use 11.10 and the crazy old one
[18:24] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  want to be incharge of that  ?
[18:24] <mhall119> tgm4883: it's not an official release so it won't be hosted there
[18:24] <bobweaver> #topic ISO
[18:24] <bobweaver> See
[18:24] <tgm4883> mhall119, why not
[18:25] <bobweaver> everything that I do gets roadblocked
[18:25] <mhall119> tgm4883: technical and legal reasons, really
[18:25] <bobweaver> or "Duke Nukemed "
[18:25] <tgm4883> mhall119, Mythbuntu is listed there
[18:25] <mhall119> isn't mythbuntu a supported flavor?
[18:25] <tgm4883> mhall119, define supported
[18:25] <pleia2> it is
[18:25] <bobweaver> so lets just tell people to install that for now
[18:26] <pleia2> and "recognised flavor" is the term
[18:26] <bobweaver> I could make a iso or see if orga will elp me
[18:26] <mhall119> definition: what pleia2 says :)
[18:26] <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, if our aim isn't to become a recognised flavor, then what is the point of this project?
[18:26] <mhall119> tgm4883: the aim is to be fully integrated into Unity itself
[18:26] <bobweaver> +1
[18:26] <bobweaver> then hire unity developers
[18:27] <bobweaver> I am sick and tired of all this talk
[18:27] <mhall119> we're working on that
[18:27] <bobweaver> port to this No port to tha t
[18:27] <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, at one point there were even paid developers for Ubuntu TV, which is far more than Mythbuntu has
[18:27] <mhall119> bobweaver: I understand the frustration
[18:27] <bobweaver> All I want is a working TV and I have that
[18:27] <bobweaver> I dont care if it is part of Ubuntu
[18:27] <bobweaver> But it does say things about Ubuntu
[18:27] <mhall119> tgm4883: Ubuntu TV wasn't every supposed to be a separate installation though, it was just supposed to be "Ubuntu" with a TV-friendly configuration of Unity
[18:27] <bobweaver> I am so confued
[18:28] <bobweaver> I get emails from canonical people telling me that qml2 is the future
[18:28] <bobweaver> then I hear that Nux is the future
[18:28] <tgm4883> mhall119, what you just said is far more information that was said to the public
[18:28] <mhall119> tgm4883: it is?  I thought we were clear on that from the get-go
[18:28] <mhall119> if not, I apologize, we should have been
[18:28] <bobweaver> again lets see how the phone is tied in
[18:29] <tgm4883> mhall119, my understanding is that it was going to be preloaded on TV's
[18:29] <tgm4883> mhall119, which is one of the reasons I'm here, to prevent that from being the only option
[18:29] <mhall119> the intent is to eventually have just one "Unity" codebase that can change between desktop, mobile and TV layouts
[18:29] <tgm4883> I'm getting a bit pessimistic about this project :/
[18:29] <bobweaver> what ever it does not matter that I code 100's of hours
[18:29] <bobweaver> and port all this stuff
[18:29] <CrestedNewt> OK, I have come to the game late in the day... I need to pull together everything that I can so that we can have a 'route plan' to get this working AND to keep everyone happy.
[18:29] <bobweaver> all I care about is a working tv at my house
[18:29] <bobweaver> you all can use it if you like
[18:30] <tgm4883> This has all the markings of a Canonical project, without any of the canonical backing it seems
[18:30] <mhall119> tgm4883: pre-loading on TVs was the distribution plan, since providing installers for TVs wasn't a very attractive option
[18:30] <bobweaver> Until canonical makes up there mind I am not doing anyuthing more for TV
[18:30] <tgm4883> mhall119, personally, IMO it was a bad plan
[18:30] <CrestedNewt> OK, bobweaver, send me the names of people I can meet face to face in London
[18:30] <bobweaver> #action make iso and
[18:30] <meetingology> ACTION: make iso and
[18:31] <tgm4883> mhall119, should have targeted a arm chip that you could plug into an HDMI port
[18:31] <bobweaver> LOL
[18:31] <mhall119> tgm4883: the target was any hardware that could run Ubuntu
[18:31] <mhall119> which included a variety of ARM devices with HDMI out
[18:31] <tgm4883> mhall119, all that aside, it doesn't help that "canonical" says "unity unity unity", then bobweaver does all the work
[18:32] <bobweaver> and CANONICAL IS NOT SAYING UNITY UNITY UNTIY
[18:32] <mhall119> tgm4883: I agree, and bobweaver knows I've been doing everything in my power to get more resources available
[18:32] <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, I like unity, but at this point i'd rather ask bobweaver to work on mythfrontend since it doesn't change so much
[18:32] <bobweaver> or at least that is the emails that I get
[18:32] <tgm4883> bobweaver, when this project started, that is exactly what was being said
[18:32] <mhall119> tgm4883: I do share your frustrations, I really do
[18:32] <CrestedNewt> I can get to the Canonical London offices easy enough. Who do I need to meet up with?
[18:32] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: for what?
[18:33] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I know, because a few of us asked why we aren't using projects that are already existing
[18:33] <CrestedNewt> to get some backing or whatever you guys NEED from them
[18:33] <bobweaver> #aaction bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
[18:33] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
[18:33] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
[18:33] <IdleOne> CrestedNewt: What you going to do when you get to the office?
[18:33] <tgm4883> mhall119, I just wish this wasn't a project that canonical was half into
[18:34] <bobweaver> I like how CrestedNewt  is busness minded somethin g that I am not
[18:34] <tgm4883> either be in or get out
[18:34] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: it wouldn't be someone in London
[18:34] <bobweaver> ok no more Unity fights please
[18:34] <mhall119> tgm4883: we all wish that
[18:34] <bobweaver> If they want to use unity then that is up to them
[18:34] <bobweaver> bottom line !
[18:34] <CrestedNewt> I need to talk to tgm4883, bobweave and mhall119 offline to pull together an agenda. If the problems are 'blockages' let me see if I can unblock these
[18:34]  * tgm4883 is unsure who CrestedNewt represents
[18:35] <CrestedNewt> the TEAM
[18:35] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  set up google hangout with CrestedNewt  and tgm4883  and anyone else that wants to work on this team
[18:35] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  set up google hangout with CrestedNewt  and tgm4883  and anyone else that wants to work on this team
[18:35] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: the main problem is resources, or rather the finite nature of them
[18:35] <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, bobweaver and I are community. mhall119 is canonical. I'm unsure which you are
[18:35] <bobweaver> Any more questions about ISO ?
[18:35] <bobweaver> !topic
[18:35] <CrestedNewt> I am community
[18:35] <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, ok
[18:35] <mhall119> I can help manually roll an ISO if need be, but that's about all the experience I have
[18:36] <bobweaver> well that did not work out like I liked
[18:36] <bobweaver> #topic
[18:36] <bobweaver> ERGHHH
[18:36] <bobweaver> sorry
[18:36] <bobweaver> Ok if no one else has questions about ISO lets move on
[18:36] <bobweaver> #topic remote
[18:37] <bobweaver> I have made a qml2 remote that controls mythfront ends from other devices
[18:37] <bobweaver> so that remote can be phone or tablet
[18:37] <bobweaver> it uses mythtv services api
[18:37] <bobweaver> quesstions comments ?
[18:38] <CrestedNewt> I want to make a youtube vid for you on something that someone else uses
[18:38] <CrestedNewt> it won't be today but hopeully over the weekend
[18:38] <bobweaver> cool
[18:38] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  is there anything in the remote that the services dont offerer that you think it should ?
[18:38] <bobweaver> ssh
[18:38] <bobweaver> ect
[18:38] <tgm4883> hmm
[18:39] <CrestedNewt> #action CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system
[18:39] <meetingology> ACTION: CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system
[18:39] <tgm4883> I'd have to look at the services APi for the frontend
[18:39] <bobweaver> #action tgm4883  look at services for front end and find more cool stuf
[18:39] <meetingology> ACTION: tgm4883  look at services for front end and find more cool stuf
[18:40] <bobweaver> any more questions about the remotes ?
[18:40] <tgm4883> I mean, I don't exactly know what we're using the mythfrontend for, but we'll need some sort of interface anyway for remotes
[18:40] <bobweaver>  because this is not Ubuntu TV anymore
[18:40] <tgm4883> mhall119, can you say anything about what saviq was working on with remotes?
[18:41] <bobweaver> that is what people say
[18:41] <bobweaver> see that is the shit that I am talking about ^^^^
[18:41] <bobweaver> #topic  Name and keeping bob from ripping his hair out
[18:41] <CrestedNewt> OK bobweaver, let's keep frustration low atm please. We will get there.
[18:42] <bobweaver> I am done dealing with do this no do that I am just going to do what I love
[18:42] <bobweaver> I am no longer part of the Ubuntu TV priject
[18:42] <mhall119> tgm4883: sorry, I don't know anything about remote work
[18:42] <bobweaver> as they (canonical ) has all the people they need for this
[18:43] <mhall119> we reallydon't
[18:43] <bobweaver> and they do not talk to me about remotes and stuff like that so I waste my time over and over again
[18:43] <CrestedNewt> OK, change of tack then.... how about a web front end built into the TV which can be controlled from any device?
[18:43] <bobweaver> If They do not like what I am doing then they can use the many people that are developing this in house
[18:44] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray
[18:44] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray
[18:44] <bobweaver> that is up to canonical and not me
[18:45] <bobweaver> untill they make that choice and until they can make a choice on how they are going to do things I am out
[18:45]  * tgm4883 wonders where this meeting went off track
[18:45] <CrestedNewt> me too!
[18:45] <bobweaver> I am done developing things for hours to be told what I am doing isnot some "designers" Idea
[18:46] <bobweaver> sorry guys but this is huge
[18:46] <bobweaver> either this is part of Ubuntu TV or it is not
[18:46] <bobweaver> this needs to be talked about
[18:46] <mhall119> bobweaver: I made clear from the outset that things had to follow the design spec in order to be accepted for inclusion
[18:46] <tgm4883> mhall119, who is the PM of Ubuntu TV
[18:46] <bobweaver> we as a community can not be working at this with no idea of what some "designer is going to do "
[18:46] <mhall119> that's what the "product" was supposed to be
[18:46] <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - I think that this is destined to be integrated fully into Ubuntu
[18:47] <mhall119> tgm4883: Will Cooke is the development manager
[18:47] <bobweaver> Ok so let me tell you all this
[18:47] <bobweaver> 1) ubuntu tv has been in unity 3d fro 2 cycles now
[18:47] <mhall119> there isn't a separate "PM" necessarily, that I know of anywya
[18:47] <bobweaver> sence 11.10
[18:47] <tgm4883> mhall119, nothing against will cooke, but I haven't seen him at any of these meetings. Indicating to me that what we are doing is pointless
[18:47] <CrestedNewt> +1
[18:47] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  I talk to will all the time
[18:48] <bobweaver> well not all the time
[18:48] <mhall119> tgm4883: Will and his team were tasked with getting the multi-media bits of the Phone done
[18:48] <bobweaver> 1 or twice a week
[18:48] <tgm4883> mhall119, if he's the development manager, he should be managing the developers of Ubuntu TV at some point. AFAIK, that is bobweaver
[18:48] <mhall119> which is why they haven't been actively engaged with the TV work
[18:48] <mhall119> tgm4883: well, yes and no
[18:48] <bobweaver> So back to unity go ahead and open up dconf editor and use Unity 3d TV that is ubuntu TV
[18:48] <bobweaver> LOL
[18:49] <mhall119> to a large extent that's my job, as a community manager, to work between Canonical and Community
[18:49] <bobweaver> Ubuntu TV is for now that and that is what it will stay until I get something in writing
[18:49] <mhall119> Will is responsible for his direct reports and his official tasks from Canonical
[18:49] <tgm4883> mhall119, unless there are developers at canonical working on this, then IMO it's a community project
[18:50] <mhall119> tgm4883: at the moment that is the case, yes
[18:50] <bobweaver> Will and jhodpp are awesome and willing to take and anwser emails
[18:50] <bobweaver> So again I am going to change all the wiki to tell people to use 11.10 or Ubuntu TV via Unity 3d
[18:50] <tgm4883> mhall119, then at some point, the community is going to get tired of Canonical being half in this and either take over the project or dump it
[18:50] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver change all the wiki stuff
[18:50] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver change all the wiki stuff
[18:50] <CrestedNewt> OK.... Let us take a step backwards and let's get all our ducks in a row so to speak.
[18:51] <mhall119> tgm4883: I would encourage the community to take the initiative on development, but to try and follow the provided design spec
[18:51] <CrestedNewt> mhall119 - could you send me the original remit please?
[18:51] <mhall119> remit?
[18:52] <bobweaver> community does not want to develop in NUX
[18:52] <CrestedNewt> what was expected from this project, the framework it has to adhere to, etc etc
[18:52] <tgm4883> mhall119, basically, from a comunity POV, canonical said "here is the design spec, make it happen"
[18:52] <mhall119> bobweaver: undestood
[18:52] <bobweaver> community does not want to do alot of things that "Designers" are talking about
[18:52] <mhall119> bobweaver: programmers rarely do ;)
[18:52] <bobweaver> community does not want to be told one thing then 2 weeks later something else
[18:52] <tgm4883> mhall119, my understanding is that things keep changing too much
[18:53] <mhall119> bobweaver: if it's any comfort, community are not the only ones suffering that
[18:53] <bobweaver> community does not want to be told that qml2 is the future then they come to meetings and hear different
[18:53] <mhall119> bobweaver: there are many voices with many opinions in Canonical
[18:53] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open
[18:53] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open
[18:54] <mhall119> bobweaver: the most official answer I have for you on that is that Qt5/QML2 is the future for our app development SDK
[18:54] <bobweaver> mhall119,  you know that this is killing the TV today right ?
[18:54] <mhall119> but that doesn't necessarily many anything for the future of Unity's foundations
[18:54] <CrestedNewt> mhall119, but if bobweaver & tgm4883 have been working on something, according to original remit, and the goal posts change.... there is a problem that needs to be sorted
[18:55] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: I will try and find the design spec that was provided
[18:55] <CrestedNewt> mhall119, thanks :D
[18:55] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: but for the technology, the direction was to use Unity3d and Nux
[18:55] <bobweaver> oh designers
[18:55] <bobweaver> :)
[18:55] <mhall119> which has not been easy
[18:55] <mhall119> I understand
[18:56] <bobweaver> #action get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash
[18:56] <meetingology> ACTION: get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash
[18:56] <bobweaver> er I forgot my name again sorry
[18:56] <bobweaver> mhall119,  then find a community that wants to do that
[18:57] <mhall119> bobweaver: I've tried :)
[18:57] <bobweaver> as I have said like a broken record TV mode is on unity 3d
[18:57] <bobweaver> tell people to use it
[18:57] <bobweaver> see what they thing :D
[18:57] <mhall119> TV mode is available on Unity 3d?
[18:57] <bobweaver> YEAH @ cycles NOW
[18:57] <bobweaver> 2 *
[18:58] <mhall119> does it look different from desktop Unity?
[18:58] <bobweaver> try it
[18:58] <mhall119> how?
[18:58] <bobweaver> change the dconf formfactor
[18:58] <CrestedNewt> ok ladies and gents, time is short.I think that certain frustrations have come to light today, which although not great, means that we have a reference point with which to work from and move forwards.
[18:58] <mhall119> my understanding was that your work was all being done on Unity 2d
[18:58] <bobweaver> no it has not mhall119
[18:59] <bobweaver> I have been told 4 different tthings at 4 different points
[18:59] <bobweaver> mhall119,  let me try to explain something that happened at UDS
[19:00] <CrestedNewt> we are about to over-run
[19:00] <CrestedNewt> lets take this to the TV channel
[19:00] <CrestedNewt> agreed?
[19:00] <bobweaver> so I went to will and Jim and said hey I know that you all can not talk to me about things that are happening in the uture but if you see soething just email me saying "that is not a good idea "
[19:00] <mhall119> bobweaver: we can talk in #ubuntu-tv so as not to take up this channel
[19:00] <bobweaver> agreeded
[19:00] <bobweaver> #endmeeting
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 15 19:00:35 2013 UTC.
[19:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-15-18.07.moin.txt
[19:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-15-18.07.html


[04:34] <mup> Bug #1597318 changed: xenial containers on trusty host need lxc packages from trusty-backports <cdo-qa-blocker> <landscape> <sts> <juju:Invalid> <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.25:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1597318>


[00:02] <skellat> Sure.
[00:02] <Cheri703> ok, thanks
[00:02] <Cheri703> forum too!
[00:02] <skellat> At least we've got a bit of lead time this time.
[00:02] <Cheri703> yeah
[00:02] <skellat> Yes ma'am.
[00:02] <Cheri703> thanks :)
[00:03] <skellat> I'll be setting the educational meeting for the following Monday so I have a little more prep time
[00:04] <Cheri703> ok
[00:12] <skellat> Cheri703: See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12465495
[00:13] <Cheri703> perfect, thanks
[05:13] <skellat> Burning Circle 98 is up: http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/131
[23:50] <Cheri703> General question for everyone: if you were buying a laptop, and ALL features were equal, would you purchase Dell, HP, Toshiba, Lenovo, or Asus?
[23:51] <skellat> Dell
[23:52] <Unit193> Dell, then HP.
[23:55] <Cheri703> hmm
[23:55] <Cheri703> k


[00:14] <tiagoscd> hello... i just like to divulgate our team work (ubuntu-br-sc): http://www.ubuntubrsc.com
[00:14] <tiagoscd> we released a blog to promote ubuntu at Brazil
[00:15] <pleia2> looks nice :)
[00:15] <pleia2> congrats
[00:16] <tiagoscd> great... i like to request if loco council can help us to divulgate the work
[00:16] <tiagoscd> akgraner will publish it into UWN and her blog
[00:16] <CrazyLemon> the page looks quite nice indeed
[00:17] <tiagoscd> pleia2, CrazyLemon  thanks :)
[00:20] <tiagoscd> czajkowski, itnet7, greg-g if you could help us to promote our job would be great.
[00:20] <tiagoscd> well
[00:20] <tiagoscd> i'll go to watch a movie now
[00:20] <tiagoscd> bye
[00:20] <tiagoscd> :)
[07:38] <YoBoY> bonjour
[07:44] <dholbach> good morning
[09:21] <AlanBell> hello lovely loco-council people
[16:32] <bkerensa> Hello SergioMeneses
[16:32] <SergioMeneses> bkerensa, hi!
[16:32] <SergioMeneses> how are you?
[16:32] <bkerensa> Good
[16:33] <SergioMeneses> :)
[16:33] <bkerensa> So I'm having our Asst. Lead present our application to LoCo Council for the most part today although I will be present
[16:37] <SergioMeneses> bkerensa, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[16:39] <czajkowski> bkerensa: either you're leading the session, or can you updat with the contact person as they will be the one that is pinged
[16:40] <SergioMeneses> czajkowski, hi!... meeting today
[16:41] <czajkowski> SergioMeneses: yup dont forget to join the council channel
[16:41] <paultag> o/ czajkowski
[16:41] <SergioMeneses> czajkowski, sure... but I'm working right now...
[16:43] <czajkowski> paultag: hi got your mail just been a  bit busy
[16:43] <paultag> czajkowski: I was just saying hi :)
[16:43] <bkerensa> okie dokie
[16:43] <mhall119> paultag misses us already :)
[16:44] <paultag> mhall119: :)
[16:44] <bkerensa> czajkowski: If the council prefers I can lead the session however I just wanted to get our asst lead and other members faces out there ;)
[16:44] <bkerensa> do you guys prefer either way? If not I will update wiki
[16:44] <paultag> mhall119: what's new, champ?
[16:44] <czajkowski> bkerensa: wel usually the team lead leads it and then folks join in
[16:44] <mhall119> paultag: still procrastinating on finishing up my qimo-launcher package for debian :(
[16:44] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, same here for python-icalendar :(
[16:44] <mhall119> got distracted by lenses
[16:44] <bkerensa> ok then Ill lead it and let other join in
[16:44] <paultag> upstream had some issues and stuff
[16:45] <paultag> mhall119: hey, want to write some lenses for me?
[16:45] <mhall119> paultag: for what?
[16:45] <paultag> mhall119: Well, I was thinking of playing with some more of our openstates data - it'd be cool if we could get a lens working for .us folks :)
[16:46] <paultag> be able to lens search for state legislation and stuff, or put in someone's name and get information about their politics
[16:46] <mhall119> paultag: sounds interesting, do you have a nice API for me?
[16:46] <paultag> mhall119: I have about 20 billion
[16:46] <paultag> mhall119: but this would be the coolest (imho) - http://influenceexplorer.com/
[16:46] <mhall119> one would be better
[16:46] <paultag> mhall119: after that would be http://openstates.org/
[16:47] <mhall119> paultag: sounds like a good use case for Singlet to target
[16:47] <mhall119> I'm in, let's do it (notice the plural)
[16:48] <paultag> mhall119: you rock. I'll help! :)
[16:48] <mhall119> I automatically see categories for "People" and "Legislation", as well as filters for federal and per-state
[16:48] <paultag> totally :)
[16:48] <paultag> sweet
[16:48] <mhall119> Politics lens, here we come!
[16:49] <paultag> muhaha :)
[16:49] <bkerensa> mhall119: I have a very cool Lens idea
[16:49] <bkerensa> :)
[16:50] <bkerensa> Popvox Lens
[16:50] <bkerensa> :D
[16:50] <mhall119> popvox?
[16:50] <paultag> mhall119: I'm stoked :)
[16:51] <bkerensa> yeah its a site that lets people get involved in bills that are introduced in congress
[16:51] <paultag> mhall119: I can spend some work tim on it if we get it rockn'
[16:51] <bkerensa> one of Maco's friends works for them and I happen to use it
[16:53] <mhall119> paultag: cool, I'll need to add Scope and Filter support to Singlet for this, but I'll get something started for you
[16:54] <paultag> mhall119: I love you, man. I'll blag it like crazy if we can get some goodies going
[16:56] <mhall119> paultag: can you find me an icon to use for the lens in the dash?
[16:58] <mhall119> paultag: lp:~mhall119/onehundredscopes/politics-lens
[17:01] <paultag> mhall119: yeah, gimme a sec. I'm sure I can get one of our graphics folks to do something if it's not urgent
[17:01] <paultag> mhall119: in the meantime, we have a cool sunlight one
[17:02] <paultag> mhall119: actually, for now, let's just put a placeholder in. I'll ask one of the designers. How big should the logo be?
[17:24]  * paultag kicks back
[17:42]  * czajkowski hugs paultag
[17:43]  * paultag hugs czajkowski
[17:43] <paultag> I've missed y'all :)
[17:43] <czajkowski> I miss you and your antics :)
[17:43] <paultag> :)
[17:46] <paultag> me and my antics are still around
[17:46] <paultag> just more mild and now mostly software :)
[18:22] <mhall119> paultag: svg is best, that way it can scale it to whatever size it needs
[18:24] <paultag> kk


[01:20]  * NCommander keeps finding Ubuntu channels :-P
[13:33] <jbailey> doko, g'm =)
[13:46] <doko> jbailey: hi, long time no see :)
[13:47] <jbailey> doko, Yeah.  Keeping busy?
[13:47] <doko> a bit ...
[14:03] <jbailey> heh
[14:03] <jbailey> doko, glibc upstream is moving to git.
[14:03] <jbailey> I found myself thinking again the other day about eglibc and seeing how many of the patches we could just get upstreamed.
[14:03] <jbailey> And then have a nice stable not-heavily-patched tree to work from.
[14:28] <doko> jbailey: yes, debian does have packaging for eglibc
[14:29] <jbailey> Nice.  Did they figure out how to do all the replacing bit so it can just be slid in and tested?
[14:29] <doko> didn't look yet


[00:31] <pleia2> Unit193: link check? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue396
[01:01] <Unit193> pleia2: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org seems a bit broken, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Security/20141221 is dead, and "Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo: S07E37 – The One on the Last Night" has broken formatting.
[01:01] <Unit193> Otherwise looks fine. :P
[01:03] <pleia2> thanks


[14:54] <airurando> afternoon
[14:54] <zmoylan> hi
[14:55] <airurando> hi zmoylan
[14:55] <airurando> ment to ask
[14:55] <airurando> why the addition of the Z?
[14:56] <zmoylan> in a chat room where one person kept sending messages to other person when he meant me and to me when he meant the other.  both our handles started with mo.  so by adding z it eliminated the problem
[14:56] <zmoylan> and as the person is 50 i could have a sly dig at his age with helping the aged.  :-)
[14:58] <airurando> :)
[14:58] <airurando> thanks for the clarification
[15:01] <czajkowski> keep 6/7 october free folks
[15:01] <czajkowski> confernece in Limerick happening
[15:01] <czajkowski> more details coming early next week
[15:01] <czajkowski> special guest speaker
[15:01] <czajkowski> Mark shuttleworth
[15:02] <airurando> oh
[15:02] <airurando> wow
[15:02] <airurando> well done you
[15:03] <zmoylan> sounds like we need a road trip :-)
[15:03] <airurando> and for once I'm actually scheduled off work on 6/7 October
[15:03] <airurando> hope top make it
[15:04] <tdr112> hey airurando
[15:04] <airurando> roadtrip indeed zmoylan
[15:04] <airurando> hi tdr112
[15:04] <tdr112> czajkowski: he will talk any where there is an airport
[15:06] <czajkowski> nope he wont :)
[15:11] <ebel> fancy pants
[15:14] <czajkowski> :)


[12:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Clapper is My New Go-To Linux Video Player @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/07/clapper-gtk-video-player-for-linux (by Joey Sneddon)


[04:16] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::UbuntuOnAir:: Ubuntu Desktop Team Indaba - May 16, 2023 @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s9Q4ica_y4 (by Ubuntu OnAir)
[07:36] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: A brief history of MicroStack @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/k8s-native-microstack
[10:34] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Docker vs Snaps: a side by side comparison @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/docker-vs-snaps-a-side-by-side-comparison
[18:13] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Lutris Update Adds Proton Support, Itch.io Integration & More @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/05/lutris-0-5-13-released (by Joey Sneddon)