[12:20] <merriam> yes.  any suggestions?  -->  <cliebow> gnome-settings-maNAGER?
[12:21] <cliebow> trhat  is what plagues me..seems associated with having an nic enabled..
[12:21] <merriam> The desktop's unusable when I log in on the server.
[12:21] <merriam> enabled?
[12:22] <cliebow> if i have dhcp set for hte nic and there is no dhcp server...i've never found any help for it
[12:23] <merriam> You don't need dhcp for the server.  It should have a fixed address and provide dhcp to the clients.
[12:24] <cliebow> i have to switch back and forth on the laptop..
[12:24] <cliebow> sometimes it is ltsp server sometimes not
[12:26] <merriam> You're running a laptop as an edubuntu server?
[12:26] <cliebow> sure..
[12:26] <cliebow> i do my expting at home with it..
[12:27] <cliebow> both powerpc and i386
[12:27] <cliebow> i use single nic "system"
[12:28] <merriam> So you expect it to work properly with two nics?
[12:28] <jgedeon_> Running a single nic Edubuntu Server here too.  DHCP is being done by Endian firewall.
[12:29] <cliebow> course ltsp works just fine..just gnome-settings things slows things down..sometimes
[12:30] <cliebow> im feeding a hundred clients at school single nic
[12:30] <cliebow> with dhcp on port 1001
[12:30] <merriam> I can easily add a nic.  I just don't understand why it's necessary.
[12:30] <cliebow> it is not..all im saying is my prob seems associated with no addy on my eth0
[12:31] <merriam> strange
[12:31] <jgedeon_> Can't just static eth0?
[12:32] <cliebow> i can..until i want to use the lappie normally..i service 12 different networks so i cant hard code it
[12:32] <jgedeon_> Can't use just use different location profile?
[12:33] <cliebow> err..probably could..but network-mangler has been so fluky lately i havnt tried
[12:33] <jgedeon_> cliebow: your running 7.04?
[12:33] <cliebow> yes..both ppc and i386
[12:34] <cliebow> my ibook has been Rocking since Sat update
[12:34] <jgedeon_> OK...  Thought so.  Tried the 7.04 last night and this morning and was just running into too many problems to get it up before the wife got up and wanted to use a computer so I went back to 6.10
[12:35] <cliebow> i understand.ive borked mine over and over..but managed to recover..one day i had three of em borked
[12:37] <jgedeon_> Oh yesterday wasn't good.  Lost HDD in main server and thier edubuntu server had the next biggest hdd that I could grab....  LOL
[12:37] <jgedeon_> cliebow: did I read right earlier that you are running at school?
[12:37] <cliebow> yes sir
[12:38] <cliebow> 12 actually
[12:38] <jgedeon_> How are you doing the printers and who can print to which printer?
[12:39] <cliebow> not very sophisticated..ltsp only prints to printers students can use
[12:40] <cliebow> never tackled it'
[12:40] <jgedeon_> Hmmm...  Ok.. I need to figure something out so that it can be assigned so students aren't printing to the printer in the classroom next door.
[12:41] <LaserJock> hehe, they'd never do that ;-)
[12:41] <jgedeon_> LMAO  Yea and they would never steal the balls from the mouse and leave our mouses balless.
[12:42] <jgedeon_> Or move the keys around on the keyboards.
[12:42] <LaserJock> heavens no
[12:42] <LaserJock> kids are just sweet little creatures :-)
[12:42] <cliebow> one thing i do is use a nonexistent printer as default..called "pickanother"
[12:42] <jgedeon_> But then again would I have done them things in school??????  You bet your @rse I would have.
[12:43] <cliebow> and throw out print jobs once in a while
[12:45] <cliebow> three school have their own server..with cups only offering printers oin that building..but otherwise connected to the entire system network..
[12:45] <cliebow> dhcp on port 1001 wont cross our maned switch..so they only get ips in their native environment
[12:46] <cliebow> from ther ltdp server
[12:47] <cliebow> and printers in that school
[01:13] <jgedeon_> HMM  Might have to look into lpadmin
[02:09] <LaserJock> sbalneav: pingy pingy, ringy ringy, dingy dingy
[02:36] <tovella> i want to continue testing feisty, but pulseaudio has not been working on my thin clients.  how can i switch back to whatever sound system was used with edgy?
[04:01] <sbalneav> LaserJock: hello
[04:19] <LaserJock> sbalneav: hi, did you write up some stuff on updating for the Handbook?
[04:20] <sbalneav> Working on some stuff now.
[04:20] <sbalneav> When's my deadline?
[04:22] <ajmitch> hi sbalneav
[04:22] <sbalneav> Hello ajmitch
[04:39] <LaserJock> sbalneav: now :-)
[04:39] <sbalneav> erk
[04:39] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I asked HedgeMage about some images we seem to be missing
[04:39] <LaserJock> she said she doesn't have them
[04:39] <LaserJock> they are update*
[04:39] <LaserJock> do you have them?
[04:39] <sbalneav> No, I don't.
[04:40] <sbalneav> LaserJock: The handbooks also on the web, yes?  Generated from the XML regularly?
[04:40] <LaserJock> kinda
[04:40] <LaserJock> on doc.ubuntu.com
[04:41] <LaserJock> but I don't think it's being updated :(
[04:42] <Burgundavia> doc should update daily
[04:42] <Burgundavia> ping mdke if it isn't
[04:43] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I'm not going to get done what I wanted tonight, that's pretty clear to me.  However, if I can update some more stuff by go-live, and it's on the web, that will help us.
[04:46] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I think maybe website building broke, and since it's long after string freeze probably nobody bothered to fix it
[04:46] <LaserJock> in fact, now that I think of it, I might have broke it
[04:47] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you have the doc team repo though right?
[04:47] <sbalneav> Yeah, I update from there.
[04:47] <sbalneav> It's the one you gave me, right?
[04:48] <LaserJock> the feisty branch
[04:48] <LaserJock> give me one sec though, I need to commit some stuff
[04:54] <LaserJock> ok, commited
[05:00] <LaserJock> oh doh
[05:00] <LaserJock> I figured it out
[05:01] <LaserJock> doc.ubuntu.com is built from trunk
[05:01] <LaserJock> I've been working in the feisty branch
[05:13] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, I've synced everything up, tomorrow the version on doc.ubuntu.com should be the latest
[05:20] <LaserJock> sbalneav: so you didn't do the "Keeping your Edubuntu server in shape" section of server.xml?
[06:34] <narutosan> may I know how many proposals are rated for the gsoc,
[06:34] <LaserJock> it's still pretty early
[06:35] <narutosan> LaserJock: Hello !!
[06:47] <narutosan> ??
[09:48] <RichEd> morning
[09:50] <cbx33> hey RichEd
[09:50] <RichEd> hi pete
[09:51] <cbx33> pm?
[09:51] <ajmitch> hi RichEd, cbx33
[09:51] <RichEd> hi ajmitch
[09:51] <cbx33> hey ajmitch
[10:05] <juliux> hi RichEd
[10:05] <RichEd> hi juliux, ogra
[10:06] <ogra> hey RichEd
[10:06] <cbx33> hey ogra, juliux
[10:06] <ajmitch> hi ogra, how's it going?
[10:07] <juliux> hi cbx33 how are you?
[10:08] <ogra> ajmitch, fighting bugs
[10:09] <ajmitch> ah yes
[10:09] <ogra> i just found a stray sleep(5) in ldm :)
[10:09] <ajmitch> that'd be annoying
[10:09] <ogra> and i always wondered why it takes so long to start :P
[10:10] <ajmitch> s/Z/X/
[10:10] <cbx33> ogra: oooh do i not recall that being there?
[10:10] <cbx33> hmm
[10:10] <cbx33> mybe now
[10:10] <cbx33> not
[10:10] <ogra> not in the greeter code
[10:10] <cbx33> ahh
[10:10] <cbx33> ok
[10:10] <cbx33> my mistake
[10:10] <ogra> its hidden in the ldm code itself
[10:11] <ogra> i also statred hacking on a greeter in C/gtk ...
[10:11] <cbx33> i thought you hated C
[10:11] <cbx33> :p
[10:14] <ogra> i do
[10:15] <ogra> but the resulting binary is 19k big ...
[10:15] <ogra> thats quite tempting
[10:15] <cbx33> heheh
[02:01] <maccam94> anybody on? i have a question about large-scale maintenance
[02:12] <RichEd> maccam ? fire away ... let me see if I can direct you
[02:13] <maccam94> ok
[02:14] <maccam94> i'm wondering how one would manage updates and changes to hundreds of computers on a network
[02:15] <jsgotangco> oh that
[02:15] <RichEd> maccam94: i'm open to correction, but from what I understand, you can set up the workstations to point to a single "update server" which would then be the only machine needing to connect to the net
[02:16] <RichEd> you can also create a group of people who would be allowed (through their usuual login/pass to be allowed to accept updates from this central machine.
[02:16] <maccam94> RichEd, so it would be possible to get all of the computers to duplicate the configuration of one machine?
[02:17] <jsgotangco> maccam94:  are you saying similar to WSUS?
[02:17] <RichEd> maccam94: strictly speaking, that would be LTSP FAT client, which will be in 7.10 ... i.e. identical single image. But the method I described above will essentially give the same (if not identical) config state to all machines.
[02:18] <maccam94> fat client
[02:18] <maccam94> exactly
[02:18] <maccam94> 7.10? :-\
[02:18] <RichEd> version 7.10 = 2007 October
[02:18] <ogra> well, a fat client is actually diskless
[02:18] <maccam94> well these machines all have disks
[02:18] <jsgotangco> it uses the hardware of the machine
[02:19] <maccam94> they're powerful enough to run an OS, but network authentication, networked /home, and mass updates (and program installations) would be desired
[02:20] <maccam94> i'm writing up a proposal to a committe in charge of deciding the technology plan for a high school for the next 5 years
[02:20] <ogra> what yu want is rather having a package proxy i your network and distributing packagelists via dpkg --get-selections/--set-selections to the different workstations
[02:21] <maccam94> ogra, so then all of the machines would have to download the files on their own? or would they use a local apt-mirror?
[02:21] <ogra> and then have the workstations run a script once a day to rsync the lists and upgrade from the package proxy accordig to the packagelist
[02:21] <maccam94> ok
[02:21] <ogra> thats how i would do it ;)
[02:22] <maccam94> ogra, so it is simple to push that dpkg command to all of the machines at once?
[02:22] <ogra> i'm sure there are thousands of solutions for mass maintenance on debian based systems :)
[02:22] <maccam94> ogra, haha i'm just looking for one that's simple and easy to explain
[02:22] <ogra> you run dpkg --get-selections > packagelist,txt
[02:22] <ogra> (on your master machine)
[02:23] <RichEd> ogra: this is worth documenting as a how to ... it will be a significant requirement this year. we may even want to run a small tutorial on this at UES ?
[02:23] <ogra> then you copy packagelist.txt to the client and run: dpkg --set-selections < packagelist.txt
[02:23] <ogra> after that apt-get upgrade ...
[02:23] <ogra> RichEd, thats documented a million times ....
[02:23] <maccam94> ogra, how would you copy it to the client and get it to do that without manually logging into each client?
[02:24] <maccam94> i'm trying to find a solution that will help the one school IT administrator manage 700 computers
[02:25] <RichEd> ogra: on our site(s) or just debain for now ?
[02:25] <RichEd> *debian
[02:26] <ogra> #!/bin/sh \n rsync rsync://server/tmp/packagelist.txt /root/packagelist.txt \n apt-get update \n dpkg --set-selections < /root/packagelist.txt \n apt-get upgrade
[02:26] <ogra> something like that ...
[02:26] <ogra> as cronscript on the client
[02:26] <ogra> RichEd, surely anywhere in the server docs
[02:27] <RichEd> okie.
[02:27] <ogra> and i'm sure in several debian documentations as well ...
[02:27] <ogra> its as common as "howto setup network authentication" ;)
[02:28] <maccam94> ogra, so that is something that has to be included in the initial installation? there's no way to just send some sort of command over the network to all of the clients?
[02:28] <ogra> no
[02:29] <ogra> ubuntu workstation installs dont listen on any ports to the outside world ... you need to set up soemthing yourself, but its usually something you never touch again after you set it up once in your life
[02:29] <ogra> apart from that there might be tools ...
[02:30] <ogra> i never looked, since that script slution is the easier way
[02:34] <ogra> maccam94, http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/doc/maint/ probably you find some other suggestions there
[02:34] <maccam94> k
[02:35] <ogra> even though thats for debian, the principles will be the same in ubuntu
[02:37] <maccam94> ok
[02:38] <maccam94> unfortunately the guides seems to be mainly about administering a single machine
[02:39] <ogra> ah, sorry then
[02:39] <ogra> but there are tons of such howtos even for mass maintenance
[02:40] <maccam94> that's what I figured, I just can't seem to find any this morning ;-)
 i'm writing up a proposal to a committe in charge of deciding the technology plan for a high school for the next 5 years <- when is your deadline ? it may be an idea to try to work together on knocking some of the generic stuff into a "Edubuntu / Ubuntu" doc
[02:42] <ogra> right
[02:42] <ogra> or scripts something easy together
[02:42] <ogra> *script
[02:42] <maccam94> i said I would have it for the next meeting, which is on (or around) april 24th
[02:43] <maccam94> i'd be happy to help brainstorm, for the next couple of weeks i'll be spending at least an hour a day on this
[02:43] <RichEd> maccam94: I'm quite busy until wed/thu, but would be interested in helping ... as this will be useful for me as well. can you pop me an email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:43] <maccam94> sure thing
[02:44] <knix_> !network-manager
[02:44] <ogra> knix_, got NM problems ?
[02:45] <RichEd> maccam94: can you see my /msg window to you ?
[02:45] <maccam94> got it
[02:45] <stormchas3r> ogra, just seeing if NM is fixed for feisty
[02:46] <ogra> edubuntu is waiting for that one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/100021
[02:46] <stormchas3r> great, and so am I
[02:46] <ogra> heh
[02:46] <ogra> anybody is it seems *g*
[02:47] <ogra> i was pondering to drop NM completely ... but then we'd miss it on workstation installs
[02:47] <jsgotangco> please drop NM
[02:47] <ogra> its evil crappy software
[02:48] <ogra> jsgotangco, i dont want to differ to much from ubuntu :) but then it needs to support our setup ...
[02:48] <ogra> just hope it doesnt get fixed for release, then i have to drop it ;)
[02:48] <jsgotangco> i would prefer KDE's wlassistant than NM
[02:48] <ogra> well
[02:49] <jsgotangco> only if for wireless access
[02:49] <ogra> we just dropped all the kde libs from the main CD :)
[02:49] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:49] <jsgotangco> booohooo
[02:49] <stormchas3r> I hope it gets fixed.  I wanna get this in my school
[02:49] <ogra> make them write a proper gtk frontend ;)
[02:49] <jsgotangco> NM or edubuntu?
[02:49] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:49] <stormchas3r> edubuntu
[02:50] <ogra> well, easy fix if you run ltsp just remove it after install for now ...
[02:50] <stormchas3r> ok
[02:52] <stormchas3r> will I still be able to boot to the server w/o ltsp?
[02:52] <ogra> sure
[02:52] <ogra> err
[02:52] <ogra> i meant to uninstall NM
[02:53] <ogra> not ltsp :)
[02:53] <stormchas3r> gotcha
[02:53] <cliebow__> knetwrokmanager is working super on this ibook in feisty 8~)
[02:55] <ogra> really ?
[02:55] <ogra> even with ltsp ?
[02:55] <ogra> i thought they use the same backend
[02:56] <cliebow__> im not running the ibook as ltsp server..or client for that matter..assuming last was meant for me
[02:57] <ogra> yeah it was :)
[02:57] <ogra> NM breaks static interface configs and only accepts one interface running ... which in turn tears down all ltsp services
[02:57] <ogra> (as long as you have a two NIC setup:))
[02:59] <stormchas3r> what are the differences betweem edgy edu and feisty edu?
[03:00] <jsgotangco> well having a newer version of gnome for starters
[03:00] <ogra> two CDs
[03:00] <ogra> instead of one
[03:00] <jsgotangco> and 2 cds
[03:00] <stormchas3r> so should I use edgy for the time being till NM gets fixed?
[03:00] <ogra> for ltsp we have a new sound architecture that emulates alsa in the session (fixes tons of sound probs)
[03:01] <stormchas3r> i c
[03:01] <ogra> a new pinting architecture
[03:01] <ogra> lost of speedups
[03:01] <stormchas3r> kewl
[03:01] <ogra> a new ltsp session managemet tool (thin-cliet-manager)
[03:01] <ogra> *client
[03:01] <stormchas3r> do you remember me ogra?
[03:01] <cliebow__> ogra:Wow..then cant wait to pull the other laptop out
[03:01] <ogra> thats the main changes ... apart from that many many bugfixes indeed and all chages you see in ubuntu
[03:23] <SiCk> hey guys, just wondering if anyone could help with a little autologin problem on the clients im having?
[03:27] <ogra> SiCk, tell us about it
[03:29] <SiCk> well, i have pretty much everything set up for it, but they dont login at all
[03:29] <SiCk> i did the kiosk setup that you wrote at one point if i recall
[03:29] <SiCk> and it worked once, that was a good while ago, but i've had no luck since
[03:30] <SiCk> they have their custom .xsessions , and the account is setup with disabled password etc.
[03:30] <ogra> you want a webkiosk mode or plain autologin to a desktop ?
[03:30] <SiCk> webkiosk
[03:30] <ogra> well, what did you change with the existing webkiosk mode ? since you say it worked once, why did it stop ?
[03:31] <SiCk> I'd reloaded the machine a few times since that
[03:31] <SiCk> from various problems and other people wanting to use the machine.. heh
[03:31] <SiCk> now i have something dedicated and i cant get it going on it
[03:32] <ogra> so you recreate your client setup with ltsp-build-client --kiosk ?
[03:32] <ogra> (or was it --webkiosk ?, cant remember)
[03:32] <SiCk> it was --kiosk, but i went through and did it pretty much manually
[03:32] <ogra> ah
[03:32] <SiCk> so i've maybe missed something there?
[03:32] <ogra> well, --kiosk should work, try using it and make your modifications later :)
[03:33] <ogra> one by one, so you can see when it breaks :)
[03:33] <SiCk> heh, true... i'll have a go at that then... ill just run through that wiki tutorial
[03:34] <ogra> no, thats not proper
[03:34] <SiCk> oh?
[03:34] <ogra> its just about how to write a plugin geerally
[03:34] <ogra> *generally
[03:34] <SiCk> so is that possibly where i'm going wrong then
[03:34] <ogra> the proper mode is builtin in ltsp-build-client
[03:35] <ogra> it does some more stuff the example plugin doesnt have
[03:35] <SiCk> ah, right.. well the only thing i've installed after that plugin-esque thing is opera realy
[03:35] <SiCk> really*
[03:36] <SiCk> and the custom .xsession
[03:36] <ogra> check the difference :) /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-kiosk
[03:37] <SiCk> i dont have a 030-kiosk :s
[03:37] <ogra> ah
[03:37] <ogra> you dot run feisty :)
[03:37] <SiCk> edgy im afraid
[03:38] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13511/
[03:38] <ogra> :)
[03:40] <SiCk> this is okay to do manually?
[03:41] <ogra> yes
[03:41] <SiCk> cool, i'll let you know how it goes!
[03:41] <SiCk> thanks again ogra
[03:41] <ogra> but you ca also copy it into the plugin dir and just let it run ... the only change you need to make is drop the pulseaudio line ... that didnt exist in edgy
[04:27] <bddebian> heya
[04:41] <kenthomson> Is someone awake? I have a long question which would help me whether to use edubuntu or not? Is anyone experienced enough listening? Only than i would type the whole situation to illustrate my problem
[04:42] <kenthomson> *decide
[04:42] <kenthomson> Hellooo....?
[04:42] <rockprincess> hello kenthomson! I don't know if I can helpp you, but i'll try
[04:42] <kenthomson> rockprincess, thats enough motivation, So listen...
[04:42] <rockprincess> hello kenthomson! I'm using Edubuntu myself, but I'm no developer!
[04:43] <rockprincess> upppps typed the hello bit again lol
[04:43] <rockprincess> ok, i'm listening ;)
[04:43] <ogra> kenthomson, just shoot :)
[04:44] <rockprincess> kenthomson: orga is your man! he's the man in the know ;)
[04:44] <kenthomson> I need to set up a lab with 8-10 boxes. I need to coach kids on it. They will do simple stuff like paint-programs/draw/logo/simple document editing/games. So what is better a DAMN SMALL LINUX on the thin client itself (you see this would eliminate the need of the server) or a full fledged edubuntu with a central server a switch and thin clients? I think if i can run DSL on thin clients itself (without the server) than that would be a lot of cost-sa
[04:44] <kenthomson> ving...but as you can see i don't know much, please pragmatise and illustrate a solution for me. Thanks for listening
[04:44] <kenthomson> ogra, there you go!
[04:45] <ogra> maintenance wise a thin client solution is always the best
[04:45] <ogra> simply because you only need to care for a single machine
[04:46] <ogra> having a to of workstations means you also need to care for each one individually
[04:46] <kenthomson> ogra, but If i can simply pop-in a live-cd in each of the machines (the supposed to be-thin clients) than DSL can comfortably run
[04:46] <ogra> *ton
[04:46] <ogra> sure
[04:46] <RichEd> hi kenthomson : Are you the Ken we met at the dinner with maddog in SF last year ?
[04:46] <kenthomson> ogra, without any maintenance issues! Despite kids can't run much havoc
[04:46] <ogra> but you need to care for the liveCDs etc ...
[04:47] <kenthomson> RichEd, I hope we could have, but unforunately no ;-)
[04:47] <kenthomson> ogra, right!
[04:47] <kenthomson> ogra, what would you recommend as the hardware configuration of a typical thin client
[04:47] <ogra> what if a kid wants to do somethig thats not provided by the CD for example
[04:48] <kenthomson> ogra, hardware configuration for a typical thin client, please
[04:48] <ogra> a tyical thin client should have 300-800Mhz, 64-256 MB, at least 2Mb graphics memory and a network card thats capable of doing netbooting
[04:48] <kenthomson> ogra, no HDD needed? not even little?
[04:49] <ogra> no
[04:49] <kenthomson> ogra, If i have a HDD to spare for each machine can i enable cache/something similar to speed up the process
[04:49] <ogra> you need a rather beefey server for that .... 256M to run the server itself and ~128M per connected client
[04:50] <kenthomson> ogra, i am not talking about RAM but HDD for each seperate TCs
[04:51] <kenthomson> ...?
[04:51] <ogra> well, you could fiddle something yourself to bot from the HDs, but i doubt thats wrth the amount of time you need to put into it over a default edubuntu
[04:51] <kenthomson> right!
[04:51] <kenthomson> ogra, and could please be kind enough to tell me about the hardware configuration of a server capable of supporting such 8-10 TCs?
[04:51] <ogra> you ca use the HDs as storage space though
[04:51] <ogra> yeah, see above for the server
[04:51] <ogra> you should have a decent CPU alog the memory requs ...
[04:52] <ogra> *along
[04:52] <ogra> and if you plan to extend that setup a gigabit NIC on the server makes sense as well
[04:52] <kenthomson> CPU = ****MHZ?
[04:52] <ogra> up to 10 cliets a 100MBit one should do though
[04:53] <ogra> well, something decent ... a current intel CPU
[04:53] <kenthomson> ogra, could you put that statement into numbers?
[04:53] <ogra> i never thsted the lower end here ...
[04:53] <ogra> so i cant tell numbers
[04:53] <kenthomson> ogra, as in...say above 3.0GHZ or a rough idea?
[04:54] <ogra> should be fine, yes
[04:54] <ogra> around or above 3ghz is surely working ...
[04:54] <ogra> the server cpu totally depends on the apps you run ...
[04:54] <kenthomson> a)<2.0GHZ b)2,0-2.5GHZ c)2.5-3.0-GHZ d)>3.0ghz. please select a appropriate one for my needs ;-)
[04:55] <kenthomson> ogra, not interested anymore? ;-(
[04:56] <ogra> well, i cant tell you much more abut that and need to get my work done here else we wont have a 7.04 release
[04:56] <ogra> something around 3 ghz should suffice ...
[04:56] <ogra> if you run no apps 1ghz will be ok
[04:56] <kenthomson> MEM = 512MB or greater or lesser?
[04:56] <ogra> if you start firefox and openoffice get 3.5ghz or something
[04:57] <kenthomson> ogra, ok
[04:57] <ogra> it *totally* depends o the usage
[04:57] <ogra> mem as i said above
[04:57] <kenthomson> ogra, i told you my usage, simple apps for little kids
[04:57] <kenthomson> ogra, nothing at all heavy but i would like decent performance anyways
[04:57] <rockprincess> kenthomson: i can tell you what i'm using here
[04:58] <kenthomson> rockprincess, i am all ears (| - -|)
[04:58] <kenthomson> rockprincess, changed your mind?
[04:59] <rockprincess> kenthomson: i'm using a amd athlon 3800+ (single core), 2gb ddr2 ram
[04:59] <kenthomson> HDD:?
[04:59] <rockprincess> kenthomson: 320gb hdd
[04:59] <kenthomson> and how many TCs does this server support?
[04:59] <rockprincess> at the moment connected to 6 thinclients
[04:59] <SiCk> hey ogra, when you have a couple minutes, the kiosk thing still aint workin.. grr , still no autologin, its like it's not even trying...
[04:59] <kenthomson> How's the performance
[04:59] <ogra> SiCk, hmm
[04:59] <kenthomson> rockprincess, how's the performance? Is there room for any more TCs or something
[05:00] <rockprincess> well, the performance is ok so far, but the start up process is a bit tricky so far....i can only boot up one machine after another...not all at the same time :(
[05:00] <SiCk> though one thing i did notice.. when it tries the first time, it gives the little drum noise that a password is incorrect?
[05:00] <rockprincess> but when it's all up, it runs smoothly
[05:00] <ogra> SiCk, you used the plugin with ltsp-build-client ?
[05:00] <SiCk> no, i manually did it.. is it worth trying the plugin, yeah/
[05:01] <ogra> well
[05:01] <cliebow_> kenthomson, i regularly run 35 clients on a dual opteron 1800 with 4 gig ram
[05:01] <kenthomson> rockprincess, can you please enlighten me about your network setup? (cables, hub/switches, routers)
[05:01] <ogra> did you replace $ROOT everywhere in the commandds etc ?
[05:01] <kenthomson> cliebow, what is a deal opteron clicked at?
[05:01] <kenthomson> cliebow, *clocked
[05:02] <tovella> i want to continue testing feisty, but pulseaudio has not been working on my thin clients.  how can i switch back to whatever sound system was used with edgy?
[05:02] <rockprincess> i'm not sure what switch is used, the network admin at school set it up for me, but i'll have a look after the eastern holidays....
[05:02] <ogra> tovella, whats not workinfg with it ?
[05:02] <cliebow_> 3579 bogomips if thst means anything
[05:02] <ogra> not really :)
[05:02] <SiCk> ogra: yeah, i had set EXPORT ROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386 beforehand
[05:03] <kenthomson> cliebow, unfortunately not
[05:03] <tovella> ogra: no sound on the thin clients
[05:03] <ogra> SiCk, well, make sure that was actually used
[05:03] <kenthomson> cliebow, can you please tell me about your network setup (cables, hub/switches, routers)
[05:03] <ogra> tovella, what did you do to check that pulse isnt runing ?
[05:03] <rockprincess> kenthomson: i think it
[05:03] <cliebow_> gig nics in ldapserver fileserver ltspserver..100 meg switches..
[05:04] <rockprincess> kenthomson: i think it's a 100mbit switch for 8 thinclients (although i'm only using 6), dont know the brand/model yet
[05:05] <tovella> ogra: about a week ago i switched to tty1, mounted proc, used 'ps'  also tried several ways of loading it - to no avail (all sorts of error messages).
[05:05] <ogra> tovella, if pulse doesnt start or work, i'D like to know about it and fix it
[05:05] <kenthomson> cliebow, rockprincess can you tell me about the type/configuration of my NIC on the server? I need 8-10 simple TCs
[05:05] <SiCk> ogra: it was definatly used... something just hates me in ltsp heh
[05:05] <ogra> tovella, ca you set a rootpw in your client: sudo /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
[05:05] <SiCk> well, gdm even
[05:05] <ogra> tovella, then switch to tty1 on a booted cliet and log in
[05:06] <kenthomson> ogra, what kernel version would i need for my Core 2 Duo?
[05:06] <tovella> ogra: sure, just a moment while my thin client machine starts.
[05:06] <ogra> then check if pulse is running and i'd also like t see the output of "dpkg -l ldm"
[05:06] <ogra> (check if its runing with: ps ax|grep pulse)
[05:07] <ogra> kenthomson, the oe we ship :)
[05:07] <ogra> *one
[05:08] <kenthomson> ogra, please don't humuor a confused beginner, is it the generic-kernel or something else? I heard AMD-guys(64-bit) need a special kernel
[05:08] <ogra> right
[05:08] <ogra> but since you didnt ask which kernel version to use with an amd64 the one we ship by default is right
[05:08] <ogra> (which would be -geeric, yes)
[05:08] <ogra> *generic
[05:09] <kenthomson> ogra, that is better ;-)
[05:09] <kenthomson> and by that we mean that i can simply pop-in a std. edubuntu cd and carry on installation as usual, and the generic-kernel would utilise the full potential of my PC (c2d)?
[05:09] <rockprincess> kenthomson: i'm using a amb64 processor as well, but decided against the 64bit edubuntu version
[05:10] <ogra> yes
[05:10] <kenthomson> rockprincess, and the reason?
[05:10] <kenthomson> rockprincess, don't the rest of the pipelines go waste?
[05:10] <tovella> ogra: "ps|grep pulse" shows me nothing, and "dpkg -l ldm" shows 5.0.4
[05:10] <ogra> unless you start using funy amounts of memory (>4Gig on a 32bit system for example) you should always be fine with the -generic kernel
[05:11] <ogra> tovella, is that a newly created feisty client chroot  or is that an upgrade ?
[05:12] <tovella> ogra: created about 2 days ago
[05:12] <ogra> weird
[05:12] <ogra> what happens if you try running pulseaudio manually ?
[05:12] <ogra> (should at least give some errors)
[05:13] <KING_DON> Hey folks, quick question regarding artwork/splash screens... how would one go about customizing the orange Edubuntu splash screen? i.e. put in a home-made one
[05:13] <ogra> KING_DON, i think there is a guide on the wiki somewhere
[05:13] <ogra> btw we dropped the orange splash in feisty :) its black again, to many complaints
[05:14] <tovella> ogra: failed to open cookie file '/root/.esd_auth': Read-only file system
[05:14] <tovella> failed to load module "module-esound-protocol-unix" (argument: ""): initialization failed.
[05:14] <ogra> cool
[05:15] <ogra> so pulse is istalled :)
[05:15] <ogra> thats already good ...
[05:15] <ogra> now why doest it start ...
[05:15] <kenthomson> ogra, thank you, i shall leave now
[05:15] <KING_DON> ogra; Ack, I forgot that I need to update my systems to feisty. Well I suppose I should put aside a few hours and do that today or tomorrow...
[05:15] <KING_DON> thanks a lot.
[05:16] <tovella> ogra: i'm not sure.  we (you and i) did some troubleshooting on this problem about a week ago.
[05:16] <ogra> ah, i remember
[05:17] <ogra> your soundcard worked in edgy ?
[05:17] <tovella> ogra: i ended up changing the sound card, reinstalling the server software - got no results.
[05:17] <tovella> ogra: yes - sound edgy.
[05:17] <ogra> which card was that again ?
[05:18] <tovella> ogra: at first a sound-blaster-live, switched to a c-media cm8738
[05:19] <ogra> well, i fixed the issue with the module loadig, so your sb with the module options should work ...
[05:20] <ogra> hmm
[05:20] <ogra> c-media should be supported by snd-cmipci
[05:20] <ogra> can you check thats loaded with lsmod|grep snd
[05:21] <tovella> doesn't appear to be loaded...
[05:21] <ogra> aha
[05:21] <tovella> i just noticed something interesting...
[05:21] <ogra> try to modprobe it
[05:23] <tovella> ogra: sorry - i overlooked it - it was loaded, already.
[05:24] <crimsun> (it may help to use `lsmod |grep ^snd_ |head -3' )
[05:25] <tovella> i noticed that "lspci" from a terminal window shows the correct card...
[05:25] <tovella> the same command from tty1 shows an intel 82801ca/cam.
[05:26] <tovella> is this some sort of "emulation" done by ltsp, or is it my crappy dell-poweredge-2300's bios/mainboard?
[05:26] <ogra> crimsun, i saw you saying to someone he'd need to have esdcompat for pulse on the server ... ESPEAKER is set there pointing to the client, so that shouldnt be needed on the server, right ?
[05:26] <crimsun> ogra: ah, true.
[05:27] <ogra> tovella, *dont* do *anything* in X
[05:27] <ogra> we're only working on the client at tty1
[05:27] <ogra> (in X you will only see server hardware)
[05:27] <tovella> ogra: gotcha, i was only looking for the card there.  everything else has been done from tty1.
[05:28] <tovella> ogra: so the intel card is the thin-client's sound device?
[05:29] <ogra> whatever lspci on the client tty says
[05:29] <tovella> oh, i see.
[05:29] <ogra> so its an intel card ?
[05:30] <tovella> ogra: exactly.
[05:30] <tovella> intel 82801ca/cam ac' 97 (rev 02).
[05:30] <ogra> the only intel soundcard module i know is snd-intel8x0 .... not sure thats the right one though
[05:30] <crimsun> (probably driven by snd_intel8x0)
[05:31] <crimsun> `amixer|more' on the client tty1 would help
[05:31] <ogra> well tere is no trace of 82801ca/cam in modinfo
[05:32] <ogra> it lists AA and AB
[05:32] <ogra> give that pulse didnt start i'd guess there is no sounddevice
[05:33] <crimsun> CA == ICH3
[05:33] <crimsun> sound/pci/intel8x0.c:52:                "{Intel,82801CA-ICH3},"
[05:33] <ogra> ah
[05:34] <ogra> tovella, do you see that module loaded ? (snd_intel8x0)
[05:34] <tovella> ogra: yes, it's loaded.
[05:35] <ogra> ok, what about the above command crimsun gave
[05:35] <ogra> (amixer|more
[05:35] <ogra> )
[05:35] <tovella> hang on.
[05:37] <tovella> ogra: yes i see about 2 pages of output from that.
[05:40] <crimsun> if you could copy and paste that output onto http://pastebin.ca , that would help
[05:40] <tovella> crimsun: will do.
[05:40] <ogra> thats tricky from a thin client
[05:40] <ogra> you can scp it to the server though
[05:43] <tovella> ogra: not sure how...when i try "amixer > amixer.txt", i get ...'read-only file system'.
[05:43] <ogra> amixer > /tmp/amixer.txt
[05:43] <ogra> ;)
[05:43] <tovella> ahh.
[05:43] <ogra>  /root isnt writeable :)
[05:47] <tovella> http://pastebin.ca/421041
[05:49] <crimsun> tovella: is that all of it?
[05:49] <tovella> i think so, let me double check.'
[05:50] <crimsun> (you may have more beyond the page mark)
[05:50] <tovella> that's all of it.
[05:51] <crimsun> on the client, is `aplay -Dplughw:0 /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav' audible?
[05:52] <tovella> let me check.
[05:53] <tovella> yes, i hear the file play.
[05:53] <crimsun> excellent, so it's a pA issue.
[05:54] <ogra> meh
[05:54] <ogra> do you have an lts.conf you created yourself ?
[05:54] <tovella> no it was created by 'ltsp-build-client'
[05:55] <ogra> have a look at /etc/init.d/ltsp-client
[05:55] <ogra> there is the snippet to start pulse
[05:56] <ogra> if you copy it and run it manually from the commandlie that should give us sme insight
[05:56] <ogra> (you need to copy it with all the subsequent lines with \ in them)
[05:57] <cliebow_> ijust cant figger why my wireless card wont work in kernels after <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:57] <tovella> ok.
[06:29] <tovella> ogra: ok, i've manually entered the pulseaudio commands  - http://pastebin.ca/421089
[06:30] <sbalneav> Morning all
[06:30] <ogra> thats weird ...
[06:30] <sbalneav> Hey ogra!
[06:31] <ogra> hey scott
[06:31] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav and ogra
[06:32] <tovella> ogra: wait - on one of the lines i spelled protocol wrong, let me try again.
[06:32] <ogra> tovella, dont worry
[06:32] <ogra> oh, you mean in the input
[06:34] <tovella> ogra: yeah. looking at the part that couldn't find the module file, i saw "protocAl".  now there are different errors - copying.
[06:34] <ogra> the funny stuff is that module-native-protocol-tcp is i the oulseaudio package
[06:34] <ogra> ok
[06:45] <tovella> ogra: alrighty, i've finished copying the output from pulse audio - http://pastebin.ca/421107
[06:48] <ogra> are yiz sure you had the -n in your command ?
[06:48] <ogra> (the last bit of the command from te initscript)
[06:48] <tovella> ogra: yes, but i left off the "&"
[06:49] <ogra> right
[06:49] <ogra> that would only drop pulse into the background
[06:49] <ogra> but your output looks like its reading the default config ...
[06:49] <ogra> which --n should avoid
[06:49] <ogra> only one dash indeed (-n)
[06:50] <tovella> i also ommitted the 'log to syslog' part 'cause it didn't show any output that way.
[06:51] <ogra> well, important are --system and -n
[06:55] <ogra> try if: pulseaudio --system -n --disable-shm -L module-detect
[06:55] <ogra> starts it
[06:55] <ogra> (it shouldnt return ot the prompt if it did start)
[06:55] <tovella> ok.
[06:56] <ogra> thats the very basic set op args to get it running ...
[06:56] <ogra> *of
[06:56] <ogra> if it starts this way we ca add option by option and see when it breaks
[06:58] <tovella> it gives the 44100 changed to 48000 Hz message, but seems to have started.:)
[06:58] <ogra> cool
[06:58] <ogra> ctrl-c it
[06:58] <ogra> and lets first add --no-cpu-limit, --resample-method=trivial and --high-priority
[06:59] <ogra> and see if it still starts
[07:00] <tovella> yes, it starts
[07:00] <ogra> ok
[07:00] <ogra> now to the modules
[07:00] <ogra> first try with -L "module-native-protocol-tcp auth-anonymous=1"
[07:00] <ogra> that should start it with an open tcp port for the desktop session
[07:02] <tovella> yes, but i get the error message "socket(PF_INET6): Address family not supported by protocol".
[07:02] <tovella> perhaps just a warning?
[07:03] <ogra> yes, thats fine, as long as the server runs
[07:04] <ogra> add: -L "module-esound-protocol-tcp auth-anonymous=1"  to it now
[07:04] <ogra> and try again ... (you will very likely get the warning twice this time)
[07:05] <tovella> still starts.
[07:06] <ogra> well, then it either breaks on module-volume-restore or on rescue-streams ...
[07:06] <ogra> so add -L module-volume-restore as well
[07:07] <ogra> you should now nearly have the same commandline in front of you as the initscript writes
[07:07] <tovella> both added, still works.
[07:07] <ogra> both ?
[07:07] <tovella> yes.
[07:07] <ogra> now thats weird
[07:08] <ogra> s you have all lines the initscript has but it starts ?
[07:08] <tovella> also added ...protocol-unix...still starts
[07:08] <ogra> (apart from the syslog)
[07:10] <ogra> your lts.conf has SOUND=True ?
[07:10] <tovella> yes.
[07:10] <ogra> (and no line for SOUND_SERVER)
[07:10] <tovella> no, but i think i've found the problem.
[07:11] <ogra> what is it ?
[07:12] <tovella> i used bash history to try what i typed again - failed again.  i noticed that what you gave me had module-detect once.  the script i printed has module detect twice. getting rid of the second instance makes it load.
[07:12] <ogra> oh, ok
[07:13] <ogra> i remember i dropped one of the module-detect lines recently
[07:13] <tovella> i'm going to comment it out, then reboot.
[07:13] <ogra>  ltsp (5.0.5) feisty; urgency=low
[07:13] <ogra>  .
[07:13] <ogra>    * move printserver startup, localdev helperscripts and soundserver
[07:13] <ogra>      startup after start of X to speed up booting (should partially
[07:13] <ogra>      help with LP #97456)
[07:13] <ogra>    * add pulseaudio-esound-compat to ltsp-server-standalone recommends
[07:13] <ogra>      (for people feeling the need to still use esddsp with apps)
[07:13] <ogra>    * drop duplicated module-detect option from pulseaudio startup to
[07:13] <ogra>      avoid warning in client bootlogs
[07:13] <ogra> ;)
[07:13] <ogra> uploaded today *g*
[07:14] <ogra> i didnt now it braks things, on my test clients it only spilled a warning
[07:14] <ogra> *breaks
[07:17] <tovella> aha, login sound works - thanks ogra.
[07:18] <ogra> YAY
[07:18] <ogra> great to know i already fixed it, thanks for helping tracking that...
[07:38] <max_898z> I have a 700mhz 256ram 20gig hd is it worth runing edubuntu or should I Xubuntu or some less demanding distro and then install indervidual packages?
[07:39] <ogra> 700/256 should be fine with edubuntu
[07:39] <ogra> even though xubuntu will leave you more free ressources
[07:39] <max_898z> great will give it a spin, thanks...
[07:51] <ogra> sbalneav, i wrote a C/gtk greeter over the weekend
[08:06] <sbalneav> ogra!!
[08:06] <sbalneav> Cool!
[08:06] <sbalneav> Faster?
[08:06] <ogra> no
[08:06] <ogra> the slowdown isnt the greeter
[08:07] <ogra> well, might be faster, but since the delay happens elsewhere you dot notice it
[08:07] <ogra> sbalneav, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13546/
[08:07] <ogra> gcc -o c_greeter -g c_greeter.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0`  `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0`
[08:07] <ogra> ...
[08:07] <ogra> still crashes in plain X i need more debugging time
[08:08] <ogra> but you can run it from a terminal to test it
[08:08] <ogra> (gnome-terminal i mean)
[08:08] <ogra> sadly the delay sits somewhere deeper in /usr/sbin/ldm ...
[08:09] <ogra> if you have any idea why it takes *eaxctly* 15secs between starting X and getting the greeter up i'd owe you beer until the end of my life
[08:10] <ogra> i mean if you look at the code, there is a xauth call with a waitpid between these two events ... even if i comment out all xauth stuff nothing changes ... still 15secs
[08:11] <sbalneav> ok, tell you what.  I can't look at it now, but I'll look at it tonight.
[08:11] <ogra> i tried the breezy greeter we had (two plain gtk entry widgets, not even a window) which should starts breezingly fast ... 15secs
[08:11] <sbalneav> You owe me nothing, however.  I feel we're far, FAR in your debt.
[08:11] <ogra> so it apparently never was the greeter that was slow, but the ldm python script
[08:12] <ogra> i cant fork properlyin shellscripts and for a C rewrite its to late ...
[08:12] <sbalneav> This cycle I feel I really let you down, because my own huge project consumed almost all of my time, and I didn't get much time to work on LTSP at all.  I will make up for it in feisty + 1 I promise.
[08:12] <ogra> nah
[08:12] <sbalneav> I'll track it down tonight.
[08:12] <ogra> you didnt let me down
[08:13] <ogra> you helped a lot and i know you have a day job
[08:14] <sbalneav> Yeah, but I normally spend much more time on LTSP/Edubuntu.  But the last 5 months have been ugly here.  I'll tell you over a beer, and bring code samples of what I've been dealing with :)  You'll laugh/barf/scream in horror.
[08:14] <ogra> heh
[08:14] <sbalneav> Say, BTW, meant to ask, got a new doggie yet?
[08:17] <ogra> nope
[08:17] <ogra> and i'm not sure i want one
[08:17] <ogra> still
[08:18] <ogra> a young dog will demand a lot more ... and i already had probs freeing enough time for an old fart who only needs one walk a day
[08:18] <sbalneav> Oh, you've still got a god?
[08:18] <sbalneav> Yipe, dog
[08:18] <ogra> i'm not sure i could copy ...
[08:18] <ogra> nope, fred was the last one
[08:19] <sbalneav> Oh, I see.  Thought you meant you were STILL walking one.  Sorry.
[08:19] <ogra> s/copy/cope
[08:19] <ogra> no, still meant "i'm still not sure i want one"
[08:20] <ogra> i'm thinking about it since he's gone
[08:20] <ogra> especially since it hurts heavily to meet any dogs
[08:20] <ogra> but susie wants one ... urgently ...
[08:21] <ogra> and i wouldnt want a single dog to be alone ...
[08:21] <ogra> so if she gets one i'll get one too ;)
[08:21] <sbalneav> Wants a dog, or a pet?  Kitties are nice, too, and demand less attention.  And if you get a goofy one like mine, they'll come when they're called, and sit on your lap all night while you're programmning :)
[08:21] <LaserJock> ogra: did you have a chance to look over the Edubuntu Handbook?
[08:22] <ogra> no, sorry, will look tonight
[08:22] <LaserJock> ogra: ok
[08:22] <LaserJock> sbalneav: where are you at with the Handbook?
[08:22] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey, I noticed yelp got fixed, and the handbooks listed right from the main screen.
[08:22] <sbalneav> Bonus.
[08:22] <LaserJock> yep ;-)
[08:22] <LaserJock> I pulled some strings :-)
[08:22] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I can have a few more things in it for you by tonight.  Say 10:00 PM?
[08:23] <sbalneav> I was going to work on it as soon as I got home.
[08:23] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, great.
[08:23] <sbalneav> LaserJock: I notice NONE of the screencaps from TCM are included.
[08:24] <sbalneav> They're in the repo, but didn't make it into the package.
[08:24] <LaserJock> we need to make sure the "Keeping your Edubuntu server in shape" section of chapter 4 is ok. the xml includes links to images we don't have
[08:24] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ah, yes. I forgot to install the images. That will be fixed in the next release, I've commited it to svn.
[08:24] <sbalneav> ok, I'll go over that tonight, then.
[08:25] <sbalneav> I'll capture images of the update manager.
[08:25] <LaserJock> cbx33 is supposed to send me new TCM screenshots
[08:25] <LaserJock> he already gave me the updated text
[08:25] <sbalneav> Ah, good, was just going to ask that.
[08:25] <sbalneav> stuper dooper
[08:25] <cliebow_> i want to see tcm..
[08:26] <sbalneav> cliebow_: running edubuntu feisty?
[08:26] <cliebow_> actually see it then rip into the code to see how it is put together
[08:26] <cliebow_> well ubuntu feisty..i guess
[08:26] <cliebow_> id install edubuntu-desktop in a heartbeat
[08:27] <cliebow_> matter of fact i just am
[08:31] <intengu> hello everyone
[08:31] <intengu> how would one create login profiles for the clients
[08:36] <sbalneav> intengu: How do you mean, login profiles?
[08:36] <sbalneav> Like, different icons/menu picks, etc?
[08:37] <cliebow_> sblaneav: that yaboot stuff is borking install of edubuntu-desktop
[08:38] <ogra> cliebow_, just move the ppc chroot out of the way during upgrade ...
[08:38] <cliebow_> k
[08:38] <ogra> i.e. mv /opt/ltsp/powerpc /opt/
[08:38] <ogra> and move it back later
[08:40] <cliebow_> Cool
[09:04] <ogra> sbalneav, btw, did you see bug 97456 ?
[09:04] <ubotu> Malone bug 97456 in ltsp "eBox 2300 boots VERY slow with Ubuntu/LTSP-5" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97456
[09:04] <ogra> :(
[09:10] <sbalneav> yeah.
[09:10] <sbalneav> That's ok.  We just need to fix it.
[09:10] <sbalneav> Everything is fixable.
[09:11] <ogra> well, not in time for feisty :/
[09:11] <ogra> besides ldm its a kernel issue
[09:13] <sbalneav> We'll spend some hacking time on it in Seville
[09:14] <ogra> right, but i'm still not after being kernel maintainer :/
[09:25] <sbalneav> Oh, C'mon. You KNOW you want to be kernel maintainer.  Thats the job that gets all the sexy groupies.   :)
[09:25] <ogra> well, suzie wont scream :)
[09:26] <ogra> if i start spending even more time on work :)
[09:28] <ogra> LaserJock, i'm not through the last two toplevel sections, but got the following: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13562/
[09:28] <ogra> thats beyond what i already found ... no biggies
[09:30] <sbalneav> ogra: I was going to update printing a bit tonight.  Don't drop it.
[09:30] <ogra> good
[09:30] <ogra> well
[09:30] <ogra> dont forget we dont have most of the options in jetpipe ... and no serial printing support at all atm
[09:30] <sbalneav> And in the boot process, do I have ltsp-client where I should have \1-setup?
[09:30] <ogra> yep
[09:30] <ogra> ltsp-client only starts services ...
[09:30] <sbalneav> ok, I'll look, I wrote/updated that section.
[09:31] <ogra> i.e. ldm :)
[09:31] <ogra> since today it also starts the localdev scripts, sound and printing ... (i moved that from -setup)
[09:31] <sbalneav> As for backup, does fiesty have the "make a cd backup tool" in it?
[09:31] <ogra> no
[09:32] <sbalneav> hubackup isn't included?
[09:32] <ogra> but you can install hupbackup from universe as in edgy
[09:32] <ogra> i dont think its done yet
[09:32] <ogra> sivan isnt the fastest ... he might even have dropped it
[09:33] <sbalneav> I could just talk about using tape drives or rsync.  I feel we should have SOME mention about backup of user data.
[09:33] <ogra> i dont think tahts urgently needed for a first release of the book ... even though its a nice to have :)
[09:35] <sbalneav> I'll throw something in there.
[09:36] <sbalneav> Next year: you NEED to talk to rocket-man about letting you come to FISL in Brazil.  I bet if you did a talk on Edubuntu, you'd have the biggest attendance of the whole show.
[09:37] <ogra> heh
[09:37] <ogra> lets tell him in seville
[09:37] <sbalneav> Sure.
[09:37] <ogra> south america and asia are still missing from my travel list
[09:38] <sbalneav> What, you've been to Antarctica?
[09:38] <ogra> ah, no
[09:38] <ogra> indeed
[09:38] <ogra> and not to africa either
[09:38] <sbalneav> OK then.  We need a conference there, too.
[09:38] <sbalneav> Sell Linux to Penguins. :)
[09:38] <Burgwork> sbalneav: I remember doing a talk about Ubuntu in April 2005, thought it would be a small audience, because I was up against Chris DiBona. Turns out I had more people than Chris did
[09:38] <ajmitch> morning :)
[09:38] <ogra> given that i use to live on atlantis time we should have one there
[09:39] <sbalneav> You lived in Atlantis?
[09:39] <sbalneav> :)
[09:39] <ogra> only in its TZ
[09:39] <ogra> its ~4h past CEST
[09:40] <sbalneav> AtlantiS or AtlantiC ?
[09:40] <ogra> a bit ahead of new york time :)
[09:40] <sbalneav> Where were you living then?
[09:40] <ogra> atlantis :)
[09:40] <sbalneav> lol
[09:40] <ogra> i *am* living on atlantis TZ
[09:41] <ogra> only on its timezone :)


[00:57] <steved_> Hello... I just got a Hauppauge <spelling> 860 USB tuner so I installed a fresh copy of mythubuntu 10.10... took awhile but I got the Os to finally see the card.. however Mythtv never shows any channels or upcoming tv schedules.  I downloaded tvtime and it's showing all my channels blank.  any ideas?
[00:57] <steved_> 850* not 860
[13:09] <_Nuetron_> I bought a new tv tuner USB card (Hauppage <spelling> 850) and did a fresh install of mythubuntu 10.10.  I downloaded all the stuff from kernellabs and got them compiled (finally) and now dmesg shows my card and is using the cx231xx driver. TVTime and MythTV see my capture card but no channels are coming in.  Any ideas?
[14:10] <mycosys> _Nuetron_ hav a look here - last poster has had some success under 10.10,
[14:28] <_Nuetron_> have a look where?  I just found something saying the version of the 850 I have requries kernel 2.6.37 so i'm downloading and compiling now
[14:34] <mycosys> oops lol http://www.kernellabs.com/blog/?p=1445 _Nuetron_
[14:34] <Zinn> [www.kernellabs.com] Hauppauge USBLive2 and new HVR-850 support – KernelLabs.com
[14:34] <mycosys> last poster got round the 2.6.35 issue it seems, and some others
[14:35] <mycosys> "went into the \v4l directory and edited (as sudo) the .config file to search for the “firedTV=m” line and change to “firedTV=n” and then reran “sudo make” and “sudo make install” " seems to be the thing?
[14:35] <_Nuetron_> yeah I saw that one last night and tried the same steps... didn't work.
[14:36] <_Nuetron_> I'm wondering if the model he has is different than mine
[14:37] <_Nuetron_> I found on linuxtv.org "Note there is three different devices being sold under the same name "HVR-850" brand name. All three versions are supoorted, but the newest version (USB ID 2040:b140) requires kernel 2.6.37" --- I have 2040:b140.
[14:37] <mycosys> the other 2 dont have the conexant chip
[14:38] <mycosys> if you follow the 2 links on that page
[14:38] <mycosys> can you take it back? would be easier to start with something that is initially well supported
[14:39] <mycosys> i went thru all that with a couple of my early tuners, wish i had just got ones tht worked off the bat from the start
[14:39] <_Nuetron_> yeah, I could lol.. I'm going to try the latest kernel.. if that doesn't work then I'll return it.. but man this sucks lol.. plus the next one I buy, there is no real way of verifying in the store if it will work or not.
[14:40] <mycosys> but you can research before hand if others are using it with myth
[14:40] <mycosys> try the #mythtv channel  - they have GREAT tuner advice on known good tuners
[14:40] <_Nuetron_> well, I did with this one... and found ppl using it.. but I didn' tknow there were "three" versions of the same model.
[14:40] <mycosys> i would help, but i am in australia, we use DVB-T not ATSC
[14:41] <_Nuetron_> in the store I wouldn't be able to figure out which ID version of the model I'm using... I either need to break it open or plug it in and do lsusb on it ;)
[14:41] <mycosys> i know not to get the US model of the tuners i have (Asus U3100mini, DVB-T version rocks, ATSC version blows)
[14:41] <_Nuetron_> ok thanks... I might try that
[14:41] <mycosys> or just find a card that always works
[14:42] <_Nuetron_> I'm also going try looking on craigslist to see if someone is selling an older one... most likely then it's supported.
[14:42] <mycosys> i know one of the HVR series cards is highly recommended for myth, 1600 i think>
[14:42] <mycosys> ?
[14:42] <mycosys> but ask on mythtv - most of em are yanks
[14:42] <_Nuetron_> what about ATI's ? I found one for sale for 25 bucks..
[14:42] <mycosys> i think aio is specifically not supported iirc
[14:44] <_Nuetron_> ok, lemme try #mythtv - thanks
[14:44] <mycosys> there is a specific hardware wiki on mythtv.org too
[16:14] <qwebirc72995> I have just installed Mythbuntu. I have a Hauppage PVR 150 TV card installed. How do I set this card up & install drivers?
[16:17] <qwebirc72995> Pressed return before finishing. I think I've told it to add the repository at ivtv but that could be a red herring. Also I haven't a clue how to do it via the setup program..I have tried..for hours. Thanks
[16:19] <tgm4883> qwebirc72995, if you've tried for hours your doing something wrong
[16:19] <tgm4883> you don't need to add the ivtv repo either
[16:20] <tgm4883> the drivers are included
[16:20] <qwebirc72995> OK..so how do I set up the card
[16:25] <tgm4883> open mythtv-setup, you need to go though each step, at least 1-5
[16:25] <tgm4883> set the card up an an mpeg2 card
[16:26] <tgm4883> http://mythbuntu.org/wiki/installation-guide
[16:26] <Zinn> [mythbuntu.org] Installation Guide | Mythbuntu
[16:27] <qwebirc72995> Ok thanks. I've been sown a lot of blind alleys
[16:27] <qwebirc72995> sorry been down a lot of blind alleys
[18:21] <qwebirc72995> Can anyone help?Going nuts here. Installed Mythbuntu 1st time. Got Hauppage 150 so drivers included. On capture card setup put card type as mpeg2 & video device /dev/video0 but then says 'failed to open' any help appreciated thanks
[18:24] <rhpot1991> qwebirc72995: thats not an mpeg2 card I think
[18:24] <rhpot1991> one of the choices should actually say pvr-xxx in the name
[18:24] <rhpot1991> you want that one
[18:27] <qwebirc72995> Hi thanks. There's no option for pvr card
[18:28] <qwebirc72995> sorry yes there is but it's an HD-PVR
[18:29] <rhpot1991> no thats not it
[18:31] <rhpot1991> you may have been correct with the mpeg2 choice then, been a while since I set up a pvr-xxx sorry
[18:31] <rhpot1991> verify its actually /dev/video0 ?
[18:34] <qwebirc72995> Tried that again but still getting  failed to open. is it always this difficult?
[18:46] <rhpot1991> qwebirc72995: ls -lah /dev/video*
[18:46] <rhpot1991> what devices does that return?
[18:47] <rhpot1991> and where exactly are you seeing the error?
[18:52] <qwebirc72995> Hi have tried  " ls -lah /dev/video* " but 'probed info' indicates "failed to open". I also get "could not open '/' to probe its inputs" from 'Default input' with everything


[05:00] <valorie> heh, added ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports-landing after running the beta for a few days:
[05:00] <valorie> Calculating upgrade... Done
[05:00] <valorie> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[05:01] <valorie> I'll try it again in case they do a re-spin
 https://kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5-12-arrives-in-backport-ppa-for-kubuntu-17-10-artful-aardvark/
[16:05] <mparillo> G+'d
[21:37] <valorie> weeeeeeeeee, upgrading right now


[07:52] <whoareU> after launching tor in console, hint connections died in state connect()ing with SSL state (No SSL object)", how to desolve it
[07:55] <yh> /erc-cmd-AMSG
[13:45] <deepin> 我想使用这个链接,但是该死的转义符.不知道怎么处理?
[13:45] <deepin> http:\/\/issuecdn.baidupcs.com\/issue\/netdisk\/LinuxGuanjia\/3.0.1\/baidunetdisk_linux_<IP_ADDRESS>.deb
[13:46] <deepin> 请帮帮我,谢谢


[02:05] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it appears that channel count for alsa does not work.
[02:06] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: when I set channels to 4 I get 2, when I set channels to 6, I still get 2
[02:06] <Eickmeyer> Oof.
[02:07] <Eickmeyer> I wonder if it's based on the hardware it's targeting?
[02:28] <OvenWerks> dummy works fine though I can get 6 i/o
[02:29] <OvenWerks> I am going to try putting the exact number 12/10 i/o and see what it does
[02:30] <OvenWerks> 12/10 works, 10/10 doesn't
[02:31] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So are we talking increments of 2?
[02:32] <OvenWerks> I am pretty sure that 2/2 is not useful enough to worry about and that full or less than full do not make any difference to the cpu used
[02:32] <OvenWerks> I don't know let me try 5
[02:33] <OvenWerks> I tried 5/7 on dummy and that works fine
[02:33] <Eickmeyer> Huh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[02:34] <OvenWerks> so I will have to figure out how to hide that row for anything but dummy
[02:34] <OvenWerks> (and net, netone when they get added)
[02:34] <OvenWerks> As you may have noticed, I have fixed the backends problem already.
[02:35] <Eickmeyer> Seems like it would be similar to graying-out a checkbox, at least in theory.
[02:36] <OvenWerks> There are only two places it matters, startup and switch master to USB. The second only works with alsa anyway... so only one place.
[02:36] <OvenWerks> yes it should be. I may need to put that row in a container and hide the container
[02:37]  * Eickmeyer nods
[02:37] <OvenWerks> I don't want to do that... because the stuff inside a container may not line up.
[02:38] <OvenWerks> that would mean three containers... one for the label and one each for in and out
[02:38] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, less than idea. There has to be a way though.
[02:38] <OvenWerks> Anyway, first I will remove channel count from alsa and firewire so at least it works
[02:40] <Eickmeyer> 👍
[03:01] <OvenWerks> Hide() and show() do not work. There is no error but it does do anything
[03:39] <OvenWerks> I guess set_sensitive(False) will have to do.
[04:00] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: -controls has been built
[04:00] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll take a look.
[04:05] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Starting with the dummy backend setting channels to 32 resulted in 2 channels in/out.
[04:08] <OvenWerks> hmm, I got 32 here
[04:09] <OvenWerks> Um oh, logout and in... I should have bumped the Vnumber
[04:09] <Eickmeyer> Oh, k
[04:11] <Eickmeyer> There we go. That was the expected result.
[04:11] <OvenWerks> not ready for release
[04:12] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I can see one issue. I had one i/o pair for Pulse and got two.
[04:12] <OvenWerks> I am going to add the inputs only for the USB bridge at least.
[04:14] <OvenWerks> I don't have that here... I did in the past (spelling error) but it should be fixed. Does changing the number of pule bridges up and config then back to one and config fix it?
[04:15] <Eickmeyer> I switched it to 0 and got 0. Changed it to 1 and got 2.
[04:15] <OvenWerks> did that here with no problem.
[04:16] <Eickmeyer> Changed it to 2 and got 4. :S
[04:16] <OvenWerks> restart jack and try again I think
[04:16] <OvenWerks> wow
[04:16] <Eickmeyer> I might try rebooting.
[04:17] <OvenWerks> That sounds like two autojacks running... shouldn't do that
[04:20] <Eickmeyer> Rebooting did the trick.
[04:22] <OvenWerks> when it is ready for release it will kill the old autojack.
[04:22] <Eickmeyer> Cool.
[15:04] <teward> Eickmeyer: I can't even tell what dpf-plugins is supposed to be bundling.  ERR: Insufficient Information
[15:04] <teward> i can ask sil to take a look but...
[15:04] <teward> chances are, same problem
[15:16] <OvenWerks> teward: which information is missing? I would think it generates a set of plugins in both lv2 and lxvst formate and probably as a jack client as well
[15:16] <teward> OvenWerks: just a description of what it does :P
[15:16] <teward> To be fair
[15:17] <teward> seth couldn't understand waht the package was supposed to do either :)
[15:17] <teward> and when that's the case I start headscratching
[15:17] <OvenWerks> In debian/control?
[15:17] <teward> oh btw I asked sil2100 to take a look at ubuntustudio-menu-add in NEW
[15:17] <teward> OvenWerks: just in general, needed more details about what it did before I poked it :p
[15:17] <teward> and sil indicated they'd take a look if they get any spare cycles
[15:28] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: with the distro plugins, do we really want to build the LV1 set? Is there any software that actually requires it? I think lmms can use the lxvst or is that wrong?
[15:38] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm just building everything it includes.
[15:38] <Eickmeyer> teward: In order to run what dpf-plugins generates, it requires an audio plugin host, such as Carla, or a DAW such as Ardour.
[15:39] <Eickmeyer> Anybody that knows what an audio plugin does knows what it requires. Same as calf-plugins and lsp-plugins.
[15:39] <OvenWerks> or even jack
[15:39] <Eickmeyer> That too.
[15:51] <Eickmeyer> teward: Description in bug 1829562 updated.
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> sarnold: ^
[16:02] <teward> Eickmeyer: ack.  but we were wondering what the package was *doing* :P
[16:02] <teward> so :P
[16:03] <OvenWerks> doing?
[16:03] <Eickmeyer> doing?
[16:03] <teward> i'm currently working with Laney on debugging Chromium issues which're causing Selenium crash failures on kopano-webapp which is blocking NGINX
[16:03] <teward> as in what it was supposed to be packaging ;)
[16:03] <teward> is it creating the plugins or just including them
[16:03] <teward> FYI I'm dead tired today :p
[16:03] <teward> 10 coffees doesn't help
[16:04] <Eickmeyer> It compiles the plugins, and then puts them where they belong (/usr/lib/lv2, /usr/lib/vst, etc...)
[16:04] <Eickmeyer> teward needs a vacation.
[16:04] <teward> ack
[16:04] <OvenWerks> it packages audio plugins used to modifi or produce sound used digital audio workstaions and effect racks for live audio work
[16:43] <teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: there be a good news for ubuntustudio-menu-add
[16:43] <teward> you can thank sil2100
[16:43] <Eickmeyer> teward: Saw that.
[16:43] <Eickmeyer> I'll be adding it to our seed soon.
[16:44] <teward> Eickmeyer: sil2100 also said they'd ack the binaries once they show up so you should be good then once that's bulit and accepted and lands :)
[16:44] <Eickmeyer> Sweet. :)
[16:54] <Eickmeyer> teward: Thanks for all your help.
[17:01] <teward> yep.
[17:01] <teward> all i did was sponsor it but :p
[17:01] <Eickmeyer> teward: That's more than a lot of people can say.
[17:01] <teward> :P
[17:01] <teward> well I sponsored it and kicked things around but :p
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> Well, my biggest frustration has been getting motus or core-devs to help us at all, so you have no idea how much value you have. :)
[17:06] <teward> well MOTUs and Core Devs are all busy xD
[17:06] <teward> but there's some things I still won't poke :P
[17:06] <teward> like DKMS related things
[17:06] <teward> or Kernel related things
[17:06] <teward> or anything that's chaos xD
[17:06] <Eickmeyer> teward: I don't blame you. I guess the problem then is that we need more MOTUs and Core Devs.
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Opinions? https://github.com/Houston4444/RaySession
[17:13] <teward> I think the problem is most MOTUs/CoreDev are busy with their own project interests and niches
[17:14] <teward> or are busy because Canonical.
[17:15] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I would almost ask are session managers even a thing any more?
[17:15] <OvenWerks> but that is me being too close to the Ardour team
[17:15] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Well, they seem to be a thing, and there's a thread on the calf-plugins github talking about needing to support NSM.
[17:15] <OvenWerks> I have not heard anything about this on LAU or LAD
[17:16] <OvenWerks> Where people ask what session manager to use
[17:16] <OvenWerks> Yeah NSM is the only thing people suggest any more and nsm or non-anything is hard to package
[17:17] <OvenWerks> so if this does the same job and is easier to package...
[17:17] <Eickmeyer> Well, tbh, Ardour is such a complete solution that it really eliminates the need for a session manager. Yet some people have them in their workflows.
[17:17] <Eickmeyer> I might give it a shot.
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> After all, ladish is dead for all intents and purposes.
[17:18] <OvenWerks> Yeah people still do the hydrogen thing because Ardour does not have a paternbased editer
[17:19] <OvenWerks> I haven't heard anyone using Ardour-Qtrackor in a long time. most people seem to have gone with one or the other
[17:20] <Eickmeyer> Looks like this thing is completely qt5, so no ntk stuff like nsm.
[17:20] <OvenWerks> no reason to use ntk
[17:20] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. No idea why the non stuff is so locked into their own toolkit.
[17:21] <OvenWerks> history
[17:21] <OvenWerks> they started with fltk
[17:21] <OvenWerks> fltk is not really suited to audio GUIs so NTK is an extension
[17:22] <OvenWerks> I actually like fltk
[17:22] <Eickmeyer> Looks like someone already packaged it in a PPA, so I guess I could rob that and clean it. https://launchpad.net/~houston44/+archive/ubuntu/raysession/+packages
[17:24] <OvenWerks> however, people have found that both NTK and FLTK do not work well for plugins even though they tend to be static compile
[17:24] <OvenWerks> good, lash is pretty much dead. I think falktx is removing it from his tools
[17:28] <teward> Eickmeyer: surprised you never asked Simon to sponsor :P
[17:28] <teward> they've got access xD
[17:28] <Eickmeyer> teward: He's too busy much of the time, even though I've done most of the up-front work.
[17:29] <Eickmeyer> teward: Though, now that he's out of school for the summer, that shouldn't be much of a problem.
 yep, that sounds like @tsimonq2 :P
 @Eickmeyer probably relevant... https://blog.ubuntu.com/2019/06/24/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts
[17:34] <Eickmeyer> Holy influence, batman! (RE: first sentence)
[17:37] <Eickmeyer> Well, looks like my email had some effect.
[17:43] <OvenWerks> wine is probably the big one. Most linux stuff comes with source packages that can be compiled either way but some of the older windows binaries that have just worked for years will never get updated. (like hulls.exe)
[17:55] <Eickmeyer> RE: raysession: OMG this package is dirty. Ew. Cleanup shall ensue.
 @Eickmeyer more likely not your email but WINE and Steam had more impact
 I did also ask Mark to weigh in behind the scenes too but
 that's me just being chaotic :P
 Hehe
[21:04] <Eickmeyer> http://ubuntustudio.org/2019/06/regarding-ubuntus-statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages/


[00:22] <Daekdroom> Looks like I ran into a bug that doesn't have a launchpad entry. Too bad I'm horrible at reporting bugs :|
[00:23] <penguin42> what  is it?
[00:23] <Daekdroom> regarding sound indicator
[00:23] <Daekdroom> and its rhythmbox integration
[00:24] <Daekdroom> the progressbar of the song will freeze on a given part of the song
[00:24] <Daekdroom> xD
[00:24] <penguin42> ah
[00:40] <Daekdroom> So, may anyone read the description in bug 606786 and tell me if the text is clear enough?
[00:41] <penguin42> sure, let me look
[00:42] <penguin42> Daekdroom: I think I see what you are saying even though I don't use it
[00:43] <Daekdroom> penguin42, how so? You have to play a song using rhythmbox to use it O.o
[00:43] <Daekdroom> *see it
[00:44] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Well, you are talking about something which has a position (which is wrong), and it sounds like the thing that has the position also has a forward/backwards button, and when you use that it is based on the time it shows not the time it's actually at?
[00:44] <Daekdroom> penguin42, let me take a screenie
[00:46] <penguin42> Daekdroom: It sounds to me like rhythmbox just forgets to update it at some point, but it's pretty independent so that the forward/reverse use the time it has, so if that time is wrong it's not too surprising the forward/reverse base it on that
[00:46] <Daekdroom> penguin42, no, I mean using the BAR to go foward/backwards inside the song
[00:46] <Daekdroom> Like the progressbar there's in rhythmbox itself.
[00:47] <Daekdroom> penguin42, http://imagebin.org/105721
[00:47] <Daekdroom> There's a music applet in the panel, so you can easily notice there's something wrong
[00:50] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Hmm that is nice
[00:50] <penguin42> (I don't know hich language I'm learning - it's always interesting to learn from buttons)
[00:50] <Daekdroom> Portuguese
[00:50] <penguin42> ah
[00:51] <penguin42> Daekdroom: It's interesting tha thte English is 'Mute All' which is qutie short, is there no Portuguese word shorter than Totalmente ?
[00:52] <Daekdroom> penguin42, pretty much every word that could replace it ends with mente :|
[00:52] <Daekdroom> modal adverbs :|
[00:54] <penguin42> what is the 'mente' ?
[00:54] <Daekdroom> lly
[00:54] <Daekdroom> You have lly, we have mente
[00:55] <penguin42> hmm
[00:55]  * penguin42 was never very good with languages :-)
[00:55] <Daekdroom> Totalmente Mudo is a direct translation from Totally mute, as a matter of fact. We don't tend to use the verb "mute", so...
[00:56] <penguin42> Google Translate suggests Mudo tudo as a translation of Mute everything
[00:56]  * Daekdroom facepalms
[00:56]  * BUGabundo hears Portuguese
[00:56] <Daekdroom> Emudecer tudo :|
[00:57] <Daekdroom> and I don't think I ever heard emudecer outside poetry
[00:57] <penguin42> It's interesting the longer English translates into a shorter Portuguese and the other way :-)
[00:57] <BUGabundo> that's just wrong
[00:57] <BUGabundo> should be "sem som"
[00:57] <Daekdroom> BUGabundo, Oh yeah, there's that!
[00:57] <BUGabundo> please ping susana, and ask for it to be upgraded
[00:58] <BUGabundo> or fixed
[00:58] <forrestv> penguin42, have you looked into that mouse bug at all?
[00:58] <Daekdroom> We could propose a change ourselves through launchpad, y'know.
[00:58] <forrestv> i'm not sure what to do as i don
[00:58] <penguin42> forrestv: Which one?
[00:58] <forrestv> 't know which package
[00:58] <forrestv> penguin42, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/606589
[00:59] <penguin42> forrestv: No I haven't, I wondered if it was related to the focus errors metacity keeps giving me and the high X cpu usage I sometimes get, but not looked into it
[00:59] <Daekdroom> That happens to me when I don't have the windows focused..
[00:59]  * penguin42 wouldn't really know where to look
[01:00] <BUGabundo> Daekdroom: #ubuntu-pt
[01:01] <penguin42> forrestv: ALso, for you does it flicker very badly - even ignoring the jump?
[01:02] <forrestv> penguin42, no, only the jumping.
[01:02] <yoasif> im noticing a weird issue with my web browsers -- the letter "b" doesn't come up in some places
[01:02] <yoasif> anyone else seeing this weirdness?
[01:03] <penguin42> forrestv: Hmm ok, sounds like I have at least two bugs then
[01:03] <penguin42> yoasif: No, not seen that
[01:04] <yoasif> penguin42, this is what it looks like: http://i.imgur.com/68lc2.png
[01:06] <penguin42> yoasif: What's wrong with that?
[01:06] <Daekdroom> penguin42, look closer
[01:06] <Daekdroom> penguin42, there are a few "bug" and "but" words without the b
[01:06] <yoasif> look at the like with 29760 with the flash
[01:07] <yoasif> line*
[01:07] <penguin42> oh - WEIRD
[01:07] <yofel> o.O
[01:08] <penguin42> I would have said it was bold capital B's except we have one of those
[01:08] <yoasif> yeah it's weird
[01:09] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: hey, are you still there?
[01:09] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: pong
[01:10] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: could you send me the 64bit version of the flash plugin?
[01:10] <BUGabundo> let me see if I have it
[01:10] <BUGabundo> I don't :(
[01:10] <kklimonda> bah
[01:10] <BUGabundo> I think I have it at work
[01:10] <Daekdroom> penguin42, they only show up in bug and but words
[01:10] <BUGabundo> ping me back on Monday
[01:10] <Daekdroom> I mean, the bug only shows up :P
[01:10] <forrestv> anyone know how to get the source for a version of a package in maverick that's out of the repository? looking for xserver-xorg-core=<IP_ADDRESS>2-0ubuntu1 and xserver-xorg-core=<IP_ADDRESS>2-0ubuntu2 to diff
[01:11] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: sure, will do
[01:12] <BUGabundo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 116K 2010-06-10 23:08 /var/lib/flashplugin-installer/npwrapper.libflashplayer.so*
[01:12] <BUGabundo> not sure that's 32 or 64
[01:12] <kklimonda> it crashes like crazy :/
[01:12] <BUGabundo> Shockwave Flash 10.1 r53
[01:12] <BUGabundo> yeah, flash started to crash yesterday
[01:12] <kklimonda> npwrapper sounds like a 32 bit plugin wrapped :)
[01:12] <kklimonda> yesterday?
[01:13] <kklimonda> It crashed like an hour ago for me ;)
[01:13] <kklimonda> I was so happy with 64 bit plugin :/
[01:13] <kklimonda> but I've forgotten to backup it
[01:14] <penguin42> forrestv: The ubuntu2 should have a changelog in at least
[01:18] <forrestv> ah yeah
[01:19] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: heh there should be some internet backup :p
[01:19] <penguin42> forrestv: Supposedly the only difference between <IP_ADDRESS>2-0ubuntu 1 and 2 was they removed the upstream changelog
[01:21] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: I know, but I don't trust random .so files and I don't have a hash ;)
[01:21] <BUGabundo> ask fta. maybe he has it
[01:23] <Daekdroom> Looks like they finally reported the startup mute issue
[01:23] <Daekdroom> in bug 597282
[01:23] <penguin42> Daekdroom: It was OK today for me
[03:31] <alien__> Does someone want to help me with my question?
[03:32] <IdleOne> you haven't asked a question
[03:32] <alien__> Hello, I am having a graphics problem. When I boot normally I do not recieve a graphics output. However I can still interact with it. (i still hear the noise at the login screen, I press shutdown button and it shutsdown) If I add i915.modeset=0 to grub I get a "low graphics mode" The graphics card works even worse in 10.04. Does anyone have any reccomedations?
[03:33] <alien__> It was a while ago...
[03:33] <IdleOne> alien__: the proper channel to ask would be #ubuntu
[03:33] <IdleOne> this is for ubuntu 10.10
[03:33] <alien__> even though I am running ubuntu 10.10.
[03:33] <IdleOne> alien__: ahh sorry
[03:33] <IdleOne> I misread
[03:34] <alien__> np,
[03:34] <IdleOne> ok yes this would be the proper channel
[03:34] <IdleOne> be patient and if someone knows they will try to help
[03:34] <alien__> Ok Ty
[03:52] <rsouthard> alien, have you tried the alternate cd?
[05:36] <cozziemoto> hey guys... no sun java yet in partner repo?
[08:55] <DanaG> Say, anyone know if Maverick PPC kernel has radeonfb disabled?
[08:55] <DanaG> I'm having a hell of a time trying to get radeon KMS to work on Lucid on a PowerBook G4.
[08:56] <DanaG> With video= anything but "ofonly", I get radeonfb.... and with ofonly, radeondrmfb doesn't properly kick out offb.
[09:06] <LoverBoyV> Hello, can anyone in here help me with my graphics issues?
[09:41] <LoverBoyV_> Is there anyone here that can help me?
[11:08] <dupondje> yofel: what you think about making a wiki page about the current X-issues
[11:08] <dupondje> alot of people are hitting the bug
[11:08] <dupondje> and its maby cool that we can give them some workarounds :)
[14:31]  * penguin42 drops a pin
[14:32]  * yofel listens till the echo fades out..
[14:36] <StaRetji> Folks, is it possible to upgrade from lucid to maverick, but without upgrading the kernel?
[14:36] <StaRetji> hehe
[14:36] <nigelb> why would you want to do that?
[14:36] <StaRetji> I on usb stick with permanent storage
[14:36] <penguin42> StaRetji: The upgrade generally leaves the old kernel and it still seems to work
[14:36] <StaRetji> it didn't for me
[14:37] <StaRetji> tried installing kernel and broke down
[14:37] <nigelb> StaRetji: are you sure? It may have just removed the grub entries
[14:37] <StaRetji> couldn't boot anymore coz I'm booting with syslonux
[14:37] <StaRetji> it's casper-rw
[14:38] <StaRetji> it would be awesome if I can upgrade the kernel
[14:40] <StaRetji> maybe everything is almost ok, but I end up in initrams or something at he boot (if kernel is ugpraded)
[14:49] <StaRetji> anywayz, thx folks, see ya around o7
[15:08] <penguin42> anyone use xfwm4?
[15:44] <pavolzetor> Hallo, I wanna join ayatana
[15:45] <IdleOne> https://launchpad.net/ayatana
[15:48] <pavolzetor> thanks
[15:48] <pavolzetor> and another question
[15:48] <pavolzetor> why are new apps written in python?
[15:49] <yofel> pavolzetor: that's the decision of whoever writes the app, they don't have to be
[15:50] <yofel> python is a bit easier for beginners IMHO than C/++
[15:51] <pavolzetor> hmm, but slower, damn, I don't use python, I use C, because it is faster
[15:51] <pavolzetor> I used C on some competitions
[15:52] <penguin42> pavolzetor: Python is slower, but when the app is mostly a GUI and doesn't do much computation then all the time is spent in the libraries that are C anyway
[15:53] <penguin42> and it is less work to write GUI apps in python than C
[15:55] <pavolzetor> hmm but also ABI for calcualtions in C is slow
[15:56] <penguin42> ?
[15:56] <pavolzetor> I did experiments in andorid
[15:56] <pavolzetor> and call C app from Java is slow
[15:57] <penguin42> pavolzetor: The trick with any of these things is to make the right choice about what to have in C and what to have in the other language; you don't want to make too many crossings between them; it works for some type of applications better than others
[15:58] <pavolzetor> yes, for math on android is C only wat
[15:58] <pavolzetor> y
[15:59] <pavolzetor> I try join to ayatana
[16:00] <pavolzetor> And could someone help me with this
[16:01] <pavolzetor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-power/+bug/257827
[16:04] <pavolzetor> no one?
[16:04] <penguin42> pavolzetor: I'm never quite sure which bits do the brightness stuff
[16:04] <pavolzetor> I feel, no one interests in this bug report
[16:05] <pavolzetor> and it is horrible
[16:05] <penguin42> pavolzetor: I think there are a lot of similar hotkey/brightness bugs I've seen, but I think there are a lot of things that interact
[16:06] <pavolzetor> hmm
[16:07] <yofel> maybe you should file a new bug..
[16:07] <pavolzetor> but I don't like duplicates
[16:07] <yofel> some people there say they have the bug but say that brightness doesn't change at all
[16:07] <yofel> pavolzetor: kernel team policy is that users should never think they have the same bug but *please* file duplicates
[16:08] <pavolzetor> have you laptop?
[16:08] <yofel> as even one changed chip on a motherbord can mean that one fix works on one mainboard but not on another of the same model
[16:09] <penguin42> yofel: Or just a fine difference between firmware version
[16:09] <pavolzetor> maybe
[16:09] <yofel> yep
[16:09] <pavolzetor> but I have TP t500 and my sisster has FSC V5505
[16:09] <pavolzetor> rangew is 16 steps
[16:09] <pavolzetor> but ubuntu changes it twice
[16:09] <yofel> then even more the reason that a fix might work on one and not on another
[16:09] <pavolzetor> I can fix it for me
[16:10] <pavolzetor> because brightness is handled by kernel
[16:10] <pavolzetor> and gnome handles it too
[16:10] <pavolzetor> 1 step for kernel
[16:10] <pavolzetor> 1 step by gpm
[16:10] <pavolzetor> and twice steps are in the world :-D
[16:10] <pavolzetor> I have tested it on 2 laptops
[16:11] <yofel> pavolzetor: well, asking in #ubuntu-kernel certainly won't hurt, they might be able to give you better advice
[16:11] <pavolzetor> and if kernel cannot change it, I think it is impossible to handle it by gnome-power-manager
[16:11] <yofel> (don't expect them to answer soon though..)
[16:11] <pavolzetor> okey
[16:11] <pavolzetor> I try it
[16:11] <pavolzetor> time,
[16:11] <yofel> can take like several hours..
[16:12] <yofel> depends if someone that knows about brightness control is online atm
[16:13] <penguin42> pavolzetor: Are you sure it is the kernel that is doing and not the firmware?
[16:14] <pavolzetor> In vista it works properly
[16:14] <pavolzetor> and also, if I kill gnome-power-manager
[16:14] <pavolzetor> it works properly
[16:14] <penguin42> yeh but I'm wondering if the 2 steps are coming from gpm+firmware rather than gpm+kernel
[16:15] <pavolzetor> yes, it could be also firmware
[16:15] <pavolzetor> you might be right
[16:15] <pavolzetor> but gnome-power-manager (gpm) gives notification
[16:16] <pavolzetor> and another question
[16:16] <pavolzetor> how can I boot my snapshot?
[16:17] <pavolzetor> I have made snapshot of root
[16:17] <pavolzetor> and then upgrade to maverick
[16:17] <penguin42> that is a LONG running bug isn't it
[16:18] <pavolzetor> what? with bitghtness?
[16:18] <pavolzetor> maybe half of year
[16:19] <penguin42> pavolzetor: No, look at the length of that bug - it goes back many years
[16:19] <pavolzetor> you are right
[16:19] <pavolzetor> I had reported it many times
[16:20] <penguin42> did you try the boot with acpi_backlight=vendor ?
[16:20] <pavolzetor> I try it, brgt
[16:20] <pavolzetor> brb
[16:36] <pavolzetor> thanks, I report new bug
[16:36] <penguin42> did that help?
[16:37] <pavolzetor> I have tested it on sister laptop and acpi_backlight=vendor not works properly
[16:37] <pavolzetor> at me it owrks
[16:37] <pavolzetor> How can I log irc conversation?
[16:39] <penguin42> pavolzetor: Depends on your client, but this will appear here irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/07/18/%23ubuntu+1.html at the start of the next hour
[16:39] <pavolzetor> thanks
[16:40] <penguin42> The kernels drivers/acpi/video.c is very big, lots of fixes for specific bioses - just looking through it, quite complex
[16:43] <pavolzetor> Hey, my screen sometimes flicker
[16:43] <pavolzetor> could it be hardware issue?
[16:45] <penguin42> yes, depends on the type of flicker I guess
[16:45] <pavolzetor> it shows colorfull rows
[16:46] <penguin42> that sounds like hardware to me
[16:46] <pavolzetor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/508248
[16:46] <pavolzetor> I don't see it in vista ever
[16:46] <pavolzetor> and earlier ubuntu
[16:47] <penguin42> hmm ok; well I guess you might be seeing  a program start up and draw something there and then go away
[16:48] <penguin42> I do remember a while ago seeing a flicker on my Intel machine that was  a driver issue - used to be whole screen though
[16:48] <pavolzetor> I don't think that
[16:48] <pavolzetor> I have it only on bottom hlaf of screen
[16:49] <penguin42> pavolzetor: Maybe; difficult to tell - on Intel where it shares RAM bandwidth with the host system you can get some odd effects
[16:49] <penguin42> (when it goes wrong)
[16:49] <pavolzetor> I try report bug
[16:50] <pavolzetor> I am using 32 kernel
[16:50] <pavolzetor> but I have also 35 kernel
[16:50] <pavolzetor> but there my wireless card not works
[16:50] <pavolzetor> I have only 4 GB ram
[16:50] <pavolzetor> can it depends on it?
[16:52] <penguin42> on the amount of RAM? Unlikely
[16:52] <pavolzetor> hmm
[16:52] <pavolzetor> I think it depends on kernel
[16:52] <pavolzetor> or intel drivers
[16:53] <penguin42> I haven't updated my intel machine to Maverick yet
[16:53] <pavolzetor> got choice :-)
[16:53] <pavolzetor> good
[16:54] <penguin42> I'm having enough fun issues with my other machine that has Radeon
[16:55] <pavolzetor> I have two graphic cards
[16:55] <pavolzetor> Ati works properly
[16:57] <pavolzetor> I don;t remember buggy alhpa like maverick
[16:58] <penguin42> hey if Alpha just worked no one would wait for Beta!
[16:58] <pavolzetor> yes
[16:58] <pavolzetor> I am maintainer of slovak translation
[16:58] <pavolzetor> therefore I need testing release
[17:01] <penguin42> ah I see
[17:01] <penguin42> I guess you find things where people have forgotten to translate them or put them through the tranlsation layer at all
[17:01] <pavolzetor> yes
[17:02] <pavolzetor> It is sometimes funny, if you are in parttime job and ubuntu wont boot :-D
[17:03] <pavolzetor> I am going to try my snapshot boot
[17:04] <pavolzetor> And do you have idea why wifi not works on lastest kernel?
[17:05] <penguin42> I don't run wifi here
[17:06] <penguin42> I use wires - I know where my packets go!
[17:06]  * Daekdroom takes a deep breath
[17:06] <Daekdroom> Looks like empathy's notifyOSD causes telepathy-butterfly to crash..
[17:07] <pavolzetor> heh, we have 3 comp
[17:07] <pavolzetor> and router is in different room
[17:08] <pavolzetor> I have WPA2
[17:08] <pavolzetor> my neightborn has WEP :-D (pretty damn to see, what he does)
[17:52] <duffydack> Ive got win7 and lucid dual boot and i have 30gig unallocted at the end of my drive, I have no /boot partition, so will installing maverick into my 30gig free space and making a seperate boot partition affect lucid in any way ?
[18:09] <BUGabundo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/270822
[18:09] <BUGabundo> thank you cjwatson :D
[21:08] <DanaG> Say, how do I get radeonfb not to try to load on Maverick?
[21:08] <DanaG> it's built-in, so I can't blacklist it!
[21:15] <DanaG> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=584744
[21:18] <DanaG> So I'm rather stuck right now...
[21:18] <DanaG> if I try video=ofonly, it uses offb and breaks KMS.
[21:18] <DanaG> If I use video=offb:off, it turns off offb, but leaves radeonfb active... thus still breaking KMS!
[21:19] <DanaG> ah, a workaround:
[21:19] <DanaG> video=ofonly video=offb:off
[21:26] <DanaG> Tells it not to use radeonfb, in favor of offb... then tells it not to use offb.
[21:36] <DanaG> Weird: on radeondrmfb on powerpc, plymouth is white on bright bright blue.
[22:02] <EliteHunters> hey all
[22:02] <EliteHunters> anyone using 10.10 Alpha 2
[22:03] <EliteHunters> got it last night and been testing it for this entire day so far
[22:03] <EliteHunters> adding firefox support
[22:03] <EliteHunters> flash
[22:03] <EliteHunters> vlc
[22:03] <EliteHunters> skype
[22:04] <EliteHunters> working fine thus far
[22:05] <EliteHunters> haven't thrown any 720 or 1080 mkv at it yet
[22:06] <EliteHunters> what about any of you all
[22:07] <EliteHunters> how is Maverick M going for you
[22:36] <EliteHunters> hey ppl
[22:41] <BUGabundo> hey EliteHunters
[22:42] <EliteHunters> hey BUGabundo
[22:43] <EliteHunters> how's everything on you side
[22:43] <EliteHunters> not much to report on my end
[22:43] <BUGabundo> neither
[22:43] <EliteHunters> just testing out the Mav Meerkat
[22:43] <EliteHunters> seeing how it handles
[22:44] <EliteHunters> but that's about it so far
[22:44] <EliteHunters> the stability looks good
[22:44] <EliteHunters> had to fight up with some app additions for myself
[22:44] <EliteHunters> but I got through it
[22:48] <BUGabundo> wb
[22:52] <TommyThaGun> does ubuntu support the turbo boost tech of the new intel chips? or is that something that the chips do on their own?
[22:53] <EliteHunters> thanks
[22:53] <EliteHunters> just getting to know the Quassel IRC
[22:53] <EliteHunters> use to XChat
[22:57] <yofel> TommyThaGun: The turbo boost on my i7 works... I think, powertop shows the cpu as being in turbo boost mode when under heavy usage
[22:58] <TommyThaGun> cool deal
[22:58] <TommyThaGun> I'm looking at upgrading my laptop, and I'm looking at different features and seeing what really matters about my upgrade
[22:58] <TommyThaGun> which way I should go
[23:02] <TommyThaGun> hmm
[23:09] <TommyThaGun> is blu-ray not officially supported on linux systems?
[23:09] <TommyThaGun> maybe that's a #ubuntu-offtopic question
[23:21] <EliteHunters> any feedback on Maverick Meerkat Alpha 2


[06:55] <MJBrune> hey all
[09:04]  * seattlegaucho just got back from the Space Needle
[09:05] <MJBrune> seattlegaucho: welcome back
[09:05] <MJBrune> seattlegaucho: any idea where I can pick up a donated laptop?
[09:06] <seattlegaucho> there is a non-profit that collects donated equipment ... but I can't remember their name
[09:06] <seattlegaucho> it should be easy to find if you google around seattle
[09:21] <MJBrune> jmmhmmmm[A
[09:21] <MJBrune> exit