[00:00] <Out-Of-Hand> so i .. .think ill use Pidgin ... ill try empathy though ... i seemed to have found a way to add it .. from a user ... but ill check that website u gave me Phillw
[00:01] <phillw> Out-Of-Hand: that community page, like all of the ones drs305 writes is excellent.
[00:01] <Out-Of-Hand> its 1:01 am here ,... im so tired ...
[00:02] <Out-Of-Hand> who here came to South Africa for the World cup ?
[00:02] <phillw> Out-Of-Hand: got to bed, then !!! it's only 00:01 here, the night is young :p
[00:03] <Out-Of-Hand> haha ... Phillw... been busy all day and struggling with  installations ... so im chilled now .. :) if the night still Young ... why u not out ? huh
[00:03]  * phillw that's kinda of scary, I know 4 of the people listed in names on the 1st screen shot on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XChatHowto :-)
[00:04] <phillw> Out-Of-Hand: I'm struggling with a poorly XP machine getting the data over to ubuntu, now the 3G dongle has decided it no longer wants to play with ubuntu area :-\
[00:05] <phillw> So, I've given up on it until tomorrow, and having a chill out.
[00:26] <Out-Of-Hand> why u struggling
[00:33] <phillw> Out-Of-Hand: the 3G dongle from "3" in the uk and ubuntu do not play well together, the kernel version I have is  not supported on the other laptop. c'est la vie :-\
[02:27] <homeero> hi?
[02:27] <homeero> anyone here?
[02:27] <Mohan_chml> hey homeero
[02:28] <homeero> hi.. i have a question...
[02:28] <homeero> would you answer it?
[02:28] <Mohan_chml> Just post a question. The persons who knows the answer will respond ya :)
[02:28] <homeero> ok..
[02:28] <Mohan_chml> see the topic
[02:28] <homeero> so i installed ubuntu 10.04 using wubi..
[02:29] <Mohan_chml> carryon
[02:29] <homeero> and i want to keep that "instalation" i mean the programs, games and configurations
[02:30] <homeero> i tried lvmp or smthing like that
[02:30] <homeero> but i ended up creating a 60gb file and i just want to install ubuntu and dual-boot it with windows while keeping the configurations and apps installed
[02:31] <homeero> so.. what should i do?
[02:31] <Mohan_chml> you dont wanna remove applications from your WinX right?
[02:31] <homeero> no
[02:32] <Mohan_chml> hmmmm you want to install Ubuntu inside windows right!
[02:33] <homeero> no.. actually i dont really care if it is inside or in a dif partition.. i just want to have more than the 30gb limit wubi offers
[02:35] <Mohan_chml> you do it with a differet partition and that will do things.
[02:36] <homeero> there is a problem with that... i had around 120 gb free space but with the 30 gb wubi instalation and the 60 gb file lvmp created i have just 30 gigs free
[02:36] <homeero> the file it created is new.disk
[02:37] <homeero> i selected "resize".. and gave it the value for 60gb but after 8 hours nothing happend.. untill i booted ibnto windows and noticed it created the 60 gb virtual disk but i dont know if it is safe to delete that file
[02:39] <phillw> homeero: which version of windows are you using?
[02:39] <homeero> windows 7
[02:39] <Mohan_chml> phillw: He has to enter into Ubuntu?
[02:39] <phillw> homeero: after XP, it's always best to get the disk utilities in windows to do the resizing of areas
[02:41] <homeero> so.. i go into disk utilities in wondows 7 and shrink the windows 7 partition... but do i erasse the new.disk file?
[02:41] <homeero> heres a topic i created in the forums theres a screenshot of the files http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1542588
[02:41] <phillw> windows can 'see' the rescue areas, where as linux will treat them as 'available', this can really upset windows. It is not linux's fault that Microsoft have bent the rules, in fact it's not really their fault, it is the manufacturers who use hidden primary partitions to hold rescue areas on instead of giving people a cd/dvd
[02:45] <phillw> homeero: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot has everything you need to know, it covers the resizing, installation etc. It is wriiten by people who have gotten it all working, so they know the possible pit falls you may encounter :-)
[02:45] <homeero> i have a better idea.. how can i backup all the pregrams and configurations from ubuntu.. so i can removine wubi and instrall ubuntu the right way?
[02:48] <phillw> homeero: I'm not familar with wubi, but I know it can be done, please give me a few minutes to hunt it down for you.
[02:49] <homeero> ok.. thank you very much
[02:49] <phillw> homeero: bad news, it does not seem to work for 10.04 :-(
[02:50] <IdleOne> !wubi
[02:50] <ubot2> Wubi is an Ubuntu installer for Windows users that allows you to install and uninstall Ubuntu like a Windows application, in a simple and safe way. http://wubi-installer.org/support.php and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide for troubleshooting. Please  file bugs at http://launchpad.net/wubi/+filebug.
[02:50] <homeero> so i guess ill have to uninstall wubi and then make a fresh install of ubuntu
[02:50] <homeero> ok... ill get started...
[02:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> homeero: yes, do a separate install and not inside winX
[02:51] <homeero> thank you phillw
[02:51] <homeero> and iamnothatguy
[02:51] <homeero> cya later guys
[02:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> homeero: (: good luck
[02:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> tenach:
[02:51] <IAmNotThatGuy> awww
[02:53] <IdleOne> errr this would not have worked for him https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide#How do I migrate to a real partition, and/or get rid of Windows entirely?
[02:54] <IdleOne> section 8.8
[02:54] <IAmNotThatGuy> IdleOne: late :P and you are online at 7.20?
[02:55] <IdleOne> 7.20?
[02:55] <IdleOne> it is 21:55 here and why wouldn't I be online?
[02:56] <IAmNotThatGuy> IdleOne: -in
[02:56] <IdleOne> yeah?
[02:56] <IdleOne> oh, hehe I am not in India
[02:57] <IdleOne> I live in Canada.
[02:57] <IAmNotThatGuy> oh okay (:
[03:00] <phillw> IdleOne: win7 and wubi .... where do we start... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1037874  and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=438591&page=41 onwards would be a good place.
[03:00] <phillw> I have no knowledge of Win7, my last Win was Vista. i just know from the forum that they do not seem to get on well together.
[03:06] <IdleOne> honestly not sure my last Windows install was XP. I think it has something to do with the Windows 7 boot loader really not playing nice
[03:12] <phillw> btw, hi tenach I did answer your question on the phillw.net forum, all and any input is welcome.
[03:12] <tenach> Alright.
[03:33] <seidos> hey, my last installed windows was win vista, but only because it came with my laptop.  I was last "intimately" familiar with xp, I am no "intimately" familiar with win 7 or vista.
[03:33] <seidos> s/no/not
[03:36] <seidos> hey mohi1
[03:36] <mohi1> heya seidos
[03:37] <IAmNotThatGuy> hows life seidos?
[03:38] <seidos> what it is, IAmNotThatGuy.  you take the good, you take the bad, you take them all and there you have the facts of life...or something like that.
[03:38] <seidos> IAmNotThatGuy, how about with you?
[03:38]  * IAmNotThatGuy is confused now
[03:39] <seidos> IAmNotThatGuy, have you heard of the show "The Facts of Life"?  It was popular back in the dinosaur age, er, the 80's I mean.
[03:40] <IAmNotThatGuy> No I didn't
[03:41] <seidos> our house was pretty strict.  None of the kids could watch it at first, because the adults thought it was too risqué.
[03:41] <seidos> IAmNotThatGuy, here is a video of the intro:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_GxXRbSFDg
[03:42] <nUboon2Age> hey seidos.  (unfortunately) i've been making extensive use of your .plx :(
[03:42] <IAmNotThatGuy> seidos: okies
[03:42] <seidos> nUboon2Age, it's not really *mine*.  But, hey, at least you have something to keep your battery from breaking.  My battery is toast :(
[03:43] <nUboon2Age> seidos: meaning that this problem is extremely pervasive.  is there some way short of totally reinstalling that i could reinstall packages that would likely fix this prob?
[03:44] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I doubt it.  My guess is the problem is with gpm, and how it determines low battery status.  It works on some systems, and not on others from what I know.
[03:45] <nUboon2Age> seidos: maybe i could reinstall the gpm(?)
[03:46] <seidos> I tried looking at the source code for gpm, but it is *way* beyond my programming skill.  I couldn't even figure out how it determined the low battery state.  People have said it gets the info from /proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/state but I'm not so sure
[03:46] <seidos> nUboon2Age, honestly, I think trying that would be a waste of time.  But you can, if you want.  do sudo apt-get remove gpm
[03:46] <seidos> oh!  something that might work, downloading the newest gpm from source and compiling it.
[03:48] <nUboon2Age> seidos: well at this point i'd maybe be ready to try that, though i haven't compiled from source yet and don't really know how.
[03:48]  * nUboon2Age ashamed to admit
[03:48] <seidos> nUboon2Age, do sudo apt-get source gnome-power-manager
[03:48] <seidos> then type ./configure
[03:48] <seidos> then make
[03:48] <seidos> then sudo make install
[03:49] <seidos> well, in the folder with the source code, after you downloaded it with sudo apt-get source
[03:49] <seidos> oh, if you want to try with the newest source, you'll have to download the tar file from the web
[03:50] <nUboon2Age> i guess to start i should probably just try the basic synaptic remove/reinstall.  Then if that doesn't work i'll try the compile from source using your inst. which i'll save. seidos
[03:51] <seidos> yeah, good luck.
[03:51] <seidos> let me know how it goes.
[03:51] <nUboon2Age> seidos: here i go...
[03:53] <nUboon2Age> seidos: okay, don't think i should remove it because it says it will remove ubuntu-desktop also. :(
[03:54] <seidos> whuhhhh?
[03:54]  * seidos tries it
[03:54] <nUboon2Age> seidos: so i'm trying just reinstall
[03:56] <seidos> nUboon2Age, yeah, good idea.  I didn't even imagine it would try removing ubuntu-desktop.  Maybe it's for security.  I thought I removed it once before though, which is how I learned it controlled the screensaver, suspend, or hibernate screen lock.
[03:56] <seidos> s/or/and
[03:58] <nUboon2Age> seidos: this thing has been so bad, any little jostling of the machine can send it into this discharge mode.  Sometimes it does recover.  I kinda think it might be your .plx program which is somehow nudging it to recover sometimes.  Its not consitent at lease in any way i can identify.
[03:59] <paultag> grrr
[04:00] <nUboon2Age> paultag: grrr?
[04:00] <paultag> nUboon2Age: My client is being lame, and it's way to late for me to learn this junk. Poke nhandler duanedesign
[04:00] <paultag> nUboon2Age: ask them, I need sleep :(
[04:00] <paultag> nUboon2Age: night!
[04:00] <nUboon2Age> seidos: okay its reinstalled.  i probably need to reboot now to check it, huh?
[04:01] <nUboon2Age> paultag: will do.
[04:01] <paultag> thanks :)
[04:02] <seidos> nUboon2Age, if you want.  I think what your doing is an exercise in futility.  I mean, ask yourself this, did it *ever* work?
[04:05] <nUboon2Age> seidos: the problem began or at least was uncovered at a particular point.  before that point i was having a somewhat different power problem which i attributed to old battery and messed up power adapter.  When i replaced them i got this problem.
[04:06] <TeacherTomL> Hi everyone.  Linux nubie here with some really basic questions.  Anyone game to answer them?
[04:06] <nUboon2Age> seidos: its possible it was a different version of the same problem.  I hope not.
[04:06] <pedro3005> TeacherTomL, sure, shoot
[04:07] <TeacherTomL> Long time Windows user.  New to Linux.  Played with Ubuntu about a year now.
[04:07] <phillw> TeacherTomL: Please do not wait to ask questions, simply ask! If anyone knows the answer, they will most likely reply.
[04:07] <phillw> btw, hi pedro3005
[04:07] <pedro3005> hi phillw
[04:07] <TeacherTomL> After some study in Linux distros, seems to me that all these distributions are just different modles of the same chassie.
[04:08] <phillw> TeacherTomL: that is correct.
[04:08] <TeacherTomL> Same kernal with different stuff attached.  Is that correct?
[04:08] <phillw> or, more correctly, the same engine. you can have your own chassis
[04:08] <TeacherTomL> So, why do people get so stuck on a single distribution?
[04:09] <TeacherTomL> Why do they say that Fedora is better than SUSI, etc?
[04:09] <pedro3005> People like to take pride in what they have and dispute who disagrees
[04:09] <phillw> TeacherTomL: it is called choice. also known as Horses for Courses
[04:09] <pedro3005> TeacherTomL, but different distros _can_ make a lot of difference
[04:09] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: think of all those GM's and Fords that have the same engine but different bodies and how fond some folks are of one over another.
[04:09] <phillw> TeacherTomL: within the ubuntu family there are different flavours
[04:09] <TeacherTomL> So it is just a matter of what accesories you like best or what software and desktop you like in a single distribution.
[04:10] <TeacherTomL> Yes, I am aware of Kubuntu, etc.
[04:10] <pedro3005> There's also the question of the philosophy
[04:10] <TeacherTomL> Philosophy?
[04:10] <pedro3005> For instance, Gentoo in believing that you should configure everything or whatever :P
[04:10] <pedro3005> TeacherTomL, many distros have their way of looking at Linux and how it should be used
[04:11] <pedro3005> a sort of "philosophy", as it's called
[04:11] <TeacherTomL> Ah... yes.  But I like that Ubuntu includes most of the stuff an experienced Windows user would recognize.
[04:11] <phillw> TeacherTomL: Well, within the ubuntu family, there are specific versions for specific jobs; http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=61 has a quick run down on them (and I'm sure I've missed at least one of them out).
[04:11] <TeacherTomL> Fedora has almost nothing installed.
[04:11] <pedro3005> Yeah. But some people believe Linux should be pretty different from Windows and should not alter itself to cater their users
[04:12] <TeacherTomL> Reading phillw.  Thanks for the link.
[04:12] <pedro3005> Yes, and as phillw mentioned, some distros serve specific tasks
[04:12] <pedro3005> Like backtrack, which is focused on security
[04:12] <TeacherTomL> Alter itself?  Seems to me there are so many different distributions that there ceases to be a "standard" Linux.
[04:12] <pedro3005> yes
[04:13] <pedro3005> Linux in itself is just the kernel
[04:13] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: Gnu/Linux as Richard Stallman would interject. :)
[04:13] <TeacherTomL> You have cleared up a lot of issues for me.  Linux is like a puzzle piece with lots of different pieces you can add.
[04:14] <TeacherTomL> Yes, I have read that too.  Gnu/Linux.
[04:14] <phillw> TeacherTomL: just as ubuntu has a 'family' so does all of linux, and we all share the same heritage, no matter what; we all share the same kernel (engine)
[04:14] <pedro3005> I've tried many distros and they're nice, easy, but I've never seen some big difference that makes me want to switch from ubuntu. And switching is just so much work :)
[04:14]  * pedro3005 is lazy
[04:14] <TeacherTomL> So why are there so many different ways to package a program.  YUM, DEB etc.
[04:15] <TeacherTomL> So far I agree, pedro3005.
[04:15] <pedro3005> Different people want different things, I suppose
[04:15] <phillw> TeacherTomL: different ways to do the same thing. None is 'better' than the other, just a different way of getting a programme onto a system.
[04:16] <pedro3005> TeacherTomL, some will prefer yum, some will prefer deb, or neither. The beauty in linux is its modularity, or how everything can be tinkered with and there are a million alternatives to anything you use
[04:16] <TeacherTomL> Different bows on the same box?
[04:16] <TeacherTomL> Back to reading for a while, but I will keep listening in if you don't mind.
[04:16] <phillw> we are all human, some of us are white, black, brown, yellow; we speak different languages, have different cultures - we are all human, That is the world of Linux.
[04:18] <duanedesign> nUboon2Age: ill take care of the ban
[04:18] <TeacherTomL> Reading just brings more questions....  Is there a Linux version of the word "Applett".
[04:19] <nUboon2Age> duanedesign: thanks!  its on nuboon2age_ i think
[04:19] <duanedesign> it is
[04:19] <duanedesign> nUboon2Age: i took care of it in #ubuntu-beginners-team earlier today
[04:19] <stlsaint> nUboon2Age: stop doing malicious activity and you dont have to worry about being banned!
[04:20] <duanedesign> sorry I did not take care of it in here as well nUboon2Age  :)
[04:20] <seidos> TeacherTomL, maybe small app?  plugin maybe?
[04:20] <TeacherTomL> Plunin?  I will try in.  "Addon" got me nothing.
[04:20] <nUboon2Age> stlsaint: :)  That a joke, right?  it was just that my client kept resetting while i was away and they set a temporary ban to stop the problem.
[04:21] <collinp> Paultag temporarily banned you because you kept pinging out.
[04:21] <stlsaint> nUboon2Age: ;)
[04:21] <duanedesign> nUboon2Age: should be good to go nUboon2Age
[04:21] <nUboon2Age> stlsaint: ;)
[04:21] <nUboon2Age> duanedesign: thanks much!
[04:21] <TeacherTomL> "Plugin" got me some results.  Thanks seidos.
[04:22] <stlsaint> duanedesign: conky colors W00T!!
[04:23] <duanedesign> :)
[04:23] <seidos> TeacherTomL, out of curiosity what are you looking for?
[04:23] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: gnome has screenlets.  Of course there are still the java applets.  what kind of 'applets' did you have in mind?
[04:24] <duanedesign> stlsaint: have you seen this. Have not tried it yet. http://sourceforge.net/projects/conkygui/
[04:24] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: various things have 'widgets'  like i think the gnome panel does and i know kde does.
[04:24] <TeacherTomL> Everything.  I am a teacher (really) and have been given a class teaching web server using Fedora.  I know nothing about web servers, nothing about Linux, but I have 2 months to study.  Learn as much as I can to teach my students as well as possible.  Funny, isn't it?
[04:25] <stlsaint> hrm, before i look at link you wouldnt happen to be referring to conkywizard?
[04:25] <TeacherTomL> You would think my dean would give me a class that I know something about.
[04:25] <seidos> man, I still haven't figured out an easy way to put the contents of an entire vim file into the paste-buffer
[04:25] <TeacherTomL> Maybe he is just testing me?
[04:25]  * nUboon2Age loves guis   duanedesign.
[04:26] <TeacherTomL> I will check "widgets" goo.  Thanks nUboon2Age.
[04:26] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: i've been hearing increasingly good things about the user-friendliness of Fedora 13
[04:26] <stlsaint> duanedesign: there is suppose to be something way better since its cli based and options alot of options and plugins
[04:27] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: i haven't tried it yet so can't say for myself.
[04:27] <duanedesign> TeacherTomL: http://www.nongnu.org/lpi-manuals/   this is a great resource for learning about linux
[04:27] <TeacherTomL> Fedora is not bad, but seems very "stripped down" to me.  Perhaps that is why my dean has selected Fedora.
[04:27] <duanedesign> TeacherTomL: Each manual is suitable to prepare candidates for the Linux Professional Institute  certification program
[04:28] <TeacherTomL> Linux certification?  I need to learn about that.
[04:28] <stlsaint> TeacherTomL: LPI!
[04:28] <stlsaint> i will soon be there myself
[04:28] <TeacherTomL> Is that an IRC chat room on this server?
[04:28] <stlsaint> TeacherTomL: then im gonna take a pic of it and rub it in duanes eyes as he views my screenshot of it! :D
[04:29] <duanedesign> stlsaint: lol
[04:29] <stlsaint> nUboon2Age: fedora is advanced some
[04:29] <stlsaint> nUboon2Age: takes ALOT of post-install configuring for alot of things and it drove me crazy, when i get more personal time on it i will mess with it
[04:29] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: keep in mind each flavor of linux may have some differences.  Such as Ubuntu now uses 'Upstart' as an alteration of the method described in those pages (what is it?  /etc/init/rc.d/?) to start up the system and load all the startup programs.
[04:30] <TeacherTomL> I have lots  to learn.  Many very tiny pieces along with the larger ones to put together a distribution.
[04:31] <duanedesign> TeacherTomL: the LPI manuals are fairly distro agnostic. They will give you a strong foundation.
[04:31] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: me too.  i'm just a beginner.
[04:31] <TeacherTomL> Are these documents open source?
[04:33] <duanedesign> TeacherTomL: yes they are under the GNU free Document License http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html
[04:35] <duanedesign> TeacherTomL: you can also get the files in OpenOffice.org Text Document format .sxw
[04:35] <duanedesign> if you wanted to make handoouts
[04:36] <duanedesign> stlsaint: you going for LPI certification?
[04:36] <TeacherTomL> Thanks Duanedesign.  I will be reading for a while.
[04:36] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: duanedesign: or maybe give URLs so students can get them and save the paper. :)
[04:36] <stlsaint> duanedesign: filesystem check yea!!!
[04:37] <duanedesign> stlsaint: i would love to.
[04:37] <TeacherTomL> My school is anti-paper as I am.  Links and an overhead will have to do.
[04:37] <stlsaint> duanedesign: why not?
[04:37] <TeacherTomL> Budget, you know.
[04:38] <duanedesign> stlsaint: maybe we can start a study group? Part of the new dev FG academy
[04:38] <stlsaint> duanedesign: all you do is linux!!
[04:38] <stlsaint> duanedesign: heck you should be the teacher
[04:38] <stlsaint> duanedesign: WAIT...thats implemented already??!?!
[04:38] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: what device do you use to project onto overhead from computer?
[04:38] <nUboon2Age> duanedesign: what's the 'new dev FG academy'?
[04:38] <TeacherTomL> The school has an overhead projecter in most classrooms that hook up to the instructors computer.
[04:39] <duanedesign> nUboon2Age: stlsaint https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Development/Academy
[04:39] <duanedesign> there is one class so far
[04:39] <stlsaint> duanedesign: oh i didnt know it was already in motion
[04:39] <duanedesign> but a couple more in the works
[04:39] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: if you know what the device is, it may be supported in Linux.
[04:39] <stlsaint> heck im still waiting to make a screencast
[04:39] <stlsaint> need an idea for one though
[04:39] <TeacherTomL> Of course, I NEVER sit at the instructors computer.  A student sits there.  How can I expect my students to understand what I am saying if I can't direct the student at the instructors workstation.
[04:40] <duanedesign> TeacherTomL: terriblly logical :)
[04:41] <TeacherTomL> Works for me, and I can be sure that I am giving good directions to my students.
[04:41] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: i hope it would be supported because it'd be tough and kinda ridiculous if it couldn't but these kinds of incompatibility things do happen. :/
[04:41] <duanedesign> maybe terribly is the wrong adjective. 'smartly logical'
[04:41] <duanedesign> making up words now :)
[04:41] <TeacherTomL> I have been teaching computers for 25 years.  In the old days there were compatability problems with overheads.  But these days the overheads are much less fussy.
[04:42] <duanedesign> TeacherTomL: yeah the one at our local library, that the LUG uses, works fine
[04:43]  * stlsaint wishes he had a place/team to cal lug :(
[04:44] <stlsaint> s/cal/call
[04:44] <TeacherTomL> O.K.  I will bite.  What is a "LUG"?
[04:44] <stlsaint> TeacherTomL: LUG == Linux User Group
[04:45] <stlsaint> its like a loco...but its not
[04:45] <stlsaint> :D
[04:45] <TeacherTomL> Thanks.  I was thinking "Local User Group."
[04:46] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: yes, but you'll need to make sure you have the device driver / support on Fedora.  Can't assume.
[04:47] <stlsaint> night night folks
[04:47] <TeacherTomL> Device driver for the overhead?  I don't think I need one, but I will be sure to check.  I have used an Ubuntu live CD to show you students Ubuntu with no problem.
[04:48] <nUboon2Age> duanedesign: i just added myself for studen in Python (although no instructor is listed yet).  nite stlsaint!
[04:49] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: so in otherwords Ubuntu apparently had the right device drivers?  That's a good sign.  Still can't assume though.
[04:50] <TeacherTomL> Now I am going to appear very inexperienced.  I see many of you including a user name with dos-puntos after their name.  Like this "TeacherTomL:".  I bet you don't type it.  How do you make it appear?
[04:50] <nUboon2Age> tab autocompletion.
[04:51] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I don't think a projector needs a driver.  I think the video driver handles outputting video to the external video output
[04:51] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: you type a letter or two of the name and hit tab.
[04:51] <TeacherTomL> TeacherTomL,
[04:51] <TeacherTomL> But I get a comma?
[04:51] <TeacherTomL> nUboon2Age,
[04:51] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: maybe your client puts in a comma instead of :
[04:51] <TeacherTomL> nUboon2Age, Maybe if I add text?
[04:52] <TeacherTomL> Got it.  My client.
[04:52] <nUboon2Age> btw, if you didn't know it TeacherTomL, the (bash?) shell and many programs also support  tab autocompletion.
[04:52] <TeacherTomL> 25 years at a computer keyboard and I feel like a nubie.
[04:53] <nUboon2Age> shell autocompletion is wonderful TeacherTomL!
[04:53] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: it makes those long paths so much easier.
[04:53] <TeacherTomL> I have read the term "Bash".  Even looked it on Wikipedia.  Still not sure what a "Bash" is.
[04:53] <nUboon2Age> Borne Again Shell
[04:53] <nUboon2Age> Bourne
[04:53] <TeacherTomL> Yes, I know that, but still.....
[04:54] <nUboon2Age> there are many shells
[04:54] <nUboon2Age> bash is only one
[04:54] <TeacherTomL> Is a shell also a bash?
[04:54] <nUboon2Age> bash is a particular shell program
[04:55] <TeacherTomL> So, what is a shell?  I have been using sshd to get remote access.
[04:55] <nUboon2Age> there are a number of them.  Bourne, Korn, C, etc.
[04:55] <nUboon2Age> its a command line interface to work with the system
[04:55] <TeacherTomL> Like a DOS prompt?
[04:56] <nUboon2Age> the equiv in DOS has a name (can't remember) but the result is a DOS prompt yeah
[04:56] <TeacherTomL> Is "Terminal" the Linux equivalent?
[04:56] <nUboon2Age> Terminal is another name for a shell
[04:57] <nUboon2Age> or can be anyway, depending on how the word is used.
[04:57] <TeacherTomL> So is Bourne, Korn, C, etc other means of doing command line commands?
[04:57] <nUboon2Age> bash is probably the most common default shell in Linux now.
[04:58] <nUboon2Age> yes, you could say that.  a shell is the program that allows you to input (and get output) from the system on a 'command line'
[04:58] <TeacherTomL> nUboon2Age, A good explination that I can understand.  Thanks.
[04:59] <nUboon2Age> the different shells have slightly different styles of commands they use.
[04:59] <nUboon2Age> some are considered better for direct user interaction, some better for shell scripts.  Its very much user preference.
[05:00] <TeacherTomL> But there are a list of standard Linux commands much like a list of DOS commands, right?  They don't differ from distribution to distribution, do they?
[05:00] <TeacherTomL> Like "ls" for "dir".
[05:01] <nUboon2Age> yes, however the shell commands you'd use to invoke Linux commands or set variables, etc. are slightly different among different shells
[05:01] <TeacherTomL> Hum....  Because the commands are imbeded in the shell?
[05:01] <nUboon2Age> there are whole classes given just on one shell or another.
[05:01] <nUboon2Age> i wouldn't say embedded.  Just invoked by the shell.
[05:02] <nUboon2Age> system calls
[05:02] <TeacherTomL> I should be aware of others, but stick with Bash?
[05:02] <nUboon2Age> maybe system calls miht not be the right way to put it, but its close.
[05:03] <TeacherTomL> I have been told I will like Bash better than DOS.  Is there a reason for that?
[05:03] <nUboon2Age> i would stick with Bash for now, yes but as you say a little awareness/knowledge of the others would be good for someone teaching.
[05:03] <TeacherTomL> nUb
[05:03] <TeacherTomL> nUboon2Age, Thanks for the advice.
[05:04] <nUboon2Age> i kinda liked DOS myself, but bash has more capability.
[05:04] <TeacherTomL> Can you give me an example?
[05:05] <phillw> TeacherTomL: a couple of links for you, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide  abd http://www.fedoraguide.info/index.php?title=Main_Page
[05:05] <phillw> /s/abd/and
[05:05] <nUboon2Age> well probably not to the level of specificity that would help you, but in its scripting capability there are many more options you can use w/ bash than DOS gave.  Many more other programs it can call on too because of Linux tools.
[05:06] <TeacherTomL> phillw, Thanks.  Bookmarked for future reference.
[05:06] <nUboon2Age> like grep, sed and awk, etc.
[05:07] <nUboon2Age> like more and less and many other programs that can pipe their inputs and outputs amongst themselves and the shells can take advantage of it.
[05:07] <phillw> TeacherTomL: there is also an IRC channel (like this one) over at #fedora
[05:07] <TeacherTomL> Thanks to all for your input.  Much friendlier than the Fedora groups I have been hanging out with.  No good deed goes unpunished.  I will be back.  Sleep well.
[05:08] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: :)
[05:08] <TeacherTomL> Fedora groups are stuck on themselves.  You guys are much friendlier and open to questions.
[05:08] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: it may be due to the focus of Ubuntu on mass market appeal.
[05:08]  * phillw I do reckon we are friendlier than other distro channels, that is also the comments from other people.
[05:09] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: ubuntu folks are less into the geek macho thing.  new user oriented and user-friendly.
[05:09] <TeacherTomL> I am wondering why my dean does not let me use Ubuntu instead of Fedora.  I think I will ask him and point out the differences in attitude between the Ubuntu groups and the Fedora groups.  I would prefer to have my students come HERE for assistance.
[05:10] <TeacherTomL> Good night!
[05:10] <nUboon2Age> ubuntu server is doing very well now in business, though redhat/fedora/CentOS is still ahead.
[05:10] <pedro3005> night TeacherTomL
[05:10] <nUboon2Age> TeacherTomL: night ;)
[05:11] <nUboon2Age> seidos: interesting, i just had a sort of a reocurrence of the problem but it at least partially recovered on its own. hmmm...
[05:12]  * phillw can we get back to bitching at eachother now the promotional video has finished :p
[05:13] <nUboon2Age> seidos: first it flashed really dramatically about three or four times then it stopped (yeah!!!).  Now it allows me to click on the battery and get the extended info, though it still says its discharing.  Before i couldn't access the pull down menu.
[05:17] <nUboon2Age> seidos: jostled again and flashing started again and not stopping.  Still can access Power Statistics though, unlike before.
[05:18] <nUboon2Age> seidos: so it DID seem to make SOME difference.  The part that still seems to be broken is the sensing of AC power.
[05:18] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I have no idea what is causing it.  Do you think it's a problem with the kernel?  Or your hardware?
[05:19] <seidos> nUboon2Age, what brand is your laptop again?
[05:19] <Primera> Anyone know how to get Ubuntu desktop working correctly under VMWare Fusion?  Seems to not want to enable additional graphics effects etc.
[05:19] <nUboon2Age> seidos: well i think my hardware is triggering it, but i think the kernel or something should handle it properly and isn't.
[05:19] <nUboon2Age> seidos: Dell Inspiron 2200.  about 5 years old
[05:20] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I don't know.  What kernel are you on?
[05:20] <nUboon2Age> seidos: the flashing is *terrible*.  Makes it really just about unusable.  I can kinda ignore it for awhile, but it doesn't help me sell Ubuntu to anyone else.  embarassing and frustrating!
[05:21] <seidos> nUboon2Age, yeah, ubuntu needs a happy marriage of hardware and software.  Maybe you should just not sell that particular Dell model.  Is it on the hcl?
[05:21] <nUboon2Age> 2.6.32-22-generic seidos
[05:22] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i can't remember.  do you have the url again?
[05:23] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i always remember that since i can 'fix' it by rebooting there has to be some amount of software bug involved.
[05:23] <seidos> nUboon2Age, http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/
[05:23] <seidos> nUboon2Age, oh, yeah.  that's probably true.  I was thinking your problem was just like mine.  hey, try booting with an earlier kernel.  You should have a couple installed to try.
[05:25] <nUboon2Age> seidos: oh, i did try that the other day after you rec'd it.  but the results were the same.  i could try it again.
[05:26] <nUboon2Age> the hcl gave it a 5.0 on 8.04. seidos
[05:26] <seidos> nUboon2Age, no don't try it again.  it sounds like a problem with the marriage between the kernel and hardware, so I'm just trying to see if an older kernel might not have the problem.  I'm using 2.6.30 and it works good for me.  The newer kernels won't work at all on my laptop.
[05:26] <seidos> nUboon2Age, do you have a flash drive?  or a blank cd?
[05:27] <nUboon2Age> stopped flashing, but still discharging.
[05:27] <seidos> nUboon2Age, that's in 8.04?
[05:28] <nUboon2Age> seidos: oh, it started charging.  again i had your .plx program running.
[05:28] <nUboon2Age> seidos: no i was saying that's what's happening right now on my machine.
[05:28] <seidos> nUboon2Age, all the .plx program will do is warn you when your battery is low.
[05:28] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i do have a flash drive.
[05:29] <seidos> nUboon2Age, ah.  well you can put 8.04 on your flash drive.  Boot from it, try it out.
[05:29] <nUboon2Age> seidos: yes i do realize that it just warns you, but i don't think i've seen it recover like that apart from using your program.
[05:30] <nUboon2Age> seidos: it seems like maybe the poking it does may get something working again.
[05:30] <seidos> nUboon2Age, you might be making the error of thinking correlation is the same as causation.
[05:30] <nUboon2Age> seidos: :) possible.
[05:31] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i haven't checked it thoroughly either, so it may recover on its own too.  but i haven't seen it yet and its not like i haven't watched it awhile.
[05:32] <seidos> nUboon2Age, the only reason I recommended the perl script was to make sure you didn't bust your battery by draining it all the way too many times.
[05:33] <nUboon2Age> seidos: yup, and i'm greatful for it.  like i say it may be doing even more than you created if for. ;)
[05:34] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I doubt it.
[05:34] <seidos> nUboon2Age, read the code.  open the .plx file in a text editor.
[05:34] <nUboon2Age> seidos: problem is i've been having this other problem with USB where it doesn't mount properly.  i just tried my usb pendrive and its having that problem.
[05:35] <nUboon2Age> seidos: oh, i did.  i already altered it a little. :)
[05:35] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I've had that problem before.  Usually rebooting fixes it.
[05:35] <seidos> nUboon2Age, cool.  paste the code, I'd be interested to read your changes.
[05:37] <nUboon2Age> seidos: they're extremely minor.  i just put a 'heading' first before the numbers start streaming and alternated the numbers w/ the 'Charging'/Discharging.
[05:37] <nUboon2Age> seidos: at least i had to figure out where your loop was and how that was working. :)
[05:37] <seidos> nUboon2Age, oh right, I forgot about changing the numbers.
[05:40] <nUboon2Age> seidos: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/W2RZuCzN
[05:41] <nUboon2Age> okay, rebooting now...
[05:41] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I like this line:  print "Please reboot now"; #added line
[05:41] <nUboon2Age> :)
[05:41] <seidos> but shouldn't it be "please charge now" or something?
[05:41] <nUboon2Age> probably
[05:42] <nUboon2Age> but in my case that's the way i get it to start charging again.
[05:43] <nUboon2Age> i'm going to try booting off my usb pen and see what happens (i don't have 8.04 on there yet but it'll be a test).  going down now...
[05:43] <nUboon2Age> seidos: ^^^
[05:52] <ridin> ok
[05:52] <ridin> i don't have the sound icon in my taskbar
[05:52] <ridin> but i still have the mail, and mail and sound icon are supposed to come together when you add them
[06:16] <nUboon2Age> seidos: well that was somewhat enlightening.  I tried LiveUSB Lucid, LiveUSB Lucid UNE and LiveUSB Kubuntu.  They all had the problem more or less.  Kubuntu was actually a little better, but still not right.  Hmm... since KDE doesn't use gpm that might point to the Kernel, eh?
[06:18] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I suppose.  I haven't used KDE very much.  I prefer gnome.  To double check you can type pkill -stop gnome-power-manager in a terminal.  But yeah, I think it's clear the problem isn't with gnome-power-manager.  But wait!  What if there is some kind of conflict between gpm and the kernel?  Possible?
[06:19] <nUboon2Age> then there would also be some kind of conflict w/ whatever kde uses, yes?
[06:20] <seidos> I don't know, there probably is no conflict.  I'm just blabbing.  I just don't like saying there's a problem with the kernel without being a kernel hacker.
[06:21] <nUboon2Age> i'm downloading 8.04 now...
[06:21] <seidos> good luck.
[06:24] <nUboon2Age> seidos: wow that was way fast!
[06:24] <nUboon2Age> seidos: almost done...
[06:30] <nUboon2Age> seidos: rebooting ti try 8.04.4 now...
[07:26] <nUboon2Age> seidos:  8.04.4 was kinda like kubuntu.  a little better, but not right.  I'm downloading (a non-Ubuntu based) PCLinuxOS Enlightenment now to try that.
[07:26] <seidos> nUboon2Age, did it still have the bug?
[07:31] <nUboon2Age> seidos: well sorta like Kubuntu it was constantly switching between AC on AC off.  Plus the flashing/pulsing bright/dim problem.
[07:31] <nUboon2Age> seidos: another thing i might try is a different OS entirely.
[07:32] <seidos> nUboon2Age, bleh.
[07:32] <nUboon2Age> seidos: just to boot up and check.
[07:32] <nUboon2Age> off the liveUSB that is.
[07:33] <seidos> nUboon2Age, if I were you, I would just try different kernels.
[07:33] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i've got ReactOS LiveCD.
[07:33] <seidos> nUboon2Age, what kernel does it come with?
[07:34] <nUboon2Age> seidos: it's own.  its an NT clone.  I've got Snow Leopard, but its not a liveCD so i doubt that would work.  might try it though.
[07:35] <seidos> nUboon2Age, ReactOS is an NT clone?  never heard of it.
[07:35] <nUboon2Age> seidos: its still considered in Alpha quality-wise.  They've been plugging away at it since like 98
[07:36] <nUboon2Age> seidos: but i saw YouTube videos of it and it didn't look terrible.
[07:36] <seidos> nUboon2Age, is it open source?
[07:36] <nUboon2Age> seidos: sure would be nice to have an m$ alternative for those stuck in WindozeWorld.
[07:37] <nUboon2Age> seidos: yes.
[07:37] <seidos> nUboon2Age, crazy.
[07:38] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i think most of the developers are from outside the US and they've labored under the shadow of big brother the whole way, but they've made progress.  This year they decided to use Wine instead of their own stuff they'd been working on, so it moved them down the road a piece.
[07:39] <hobgoblin> seidos: from what I understand it runs wine all the time
[07:41] <seidos> nUboon2Age, hobgoblin crazy.  first I've heard of it.  I think when I saw "reactOS" before I always thought it was another GNU/Linux distro
[07:42] <hobgoblin> I've seen it on the forums is about all - not ever bothered to look though at it
[07:42] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i've also got Ubuntu 6.06 i may try from LiveUSB.
[07:42] <hobgoblin> if I wanted windows I'd buy it :)  what we need is hardware manufacturers to make their stuff work not an os that runs wine to run the stuff
[07:43] <seidos> nUboon2Age, just try different kernels.  If you already entered a bug, that's all you can do, aside from trying to hack the kernel yourself.  I wouldn't try kernels below 2.6.30 if I were you, though.
[07:44] <seidos> hobgoblin, an open source windows would be pretty nice.  But I see your point about wine.
[07:44] <hobgoblin> :)
[07:44] <nUboon2Age> seidos: well running different Ubuntus is one way i have to try different kernels (since i'm not that sophisticated yet about other ways to try other kernels.
[07:45] <hobgoblin> seidos: personally I am pragmatic about the whole thing - I hate fanbois of any colour
[07:45] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i figure that 6.06 and even earlier was around when the machine came out, so it might work.
[07:46] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: I have old hardware and it all works
[07:46] <hobgoblin> not that that helps :)
[07:47] <nUboon2Age> this machine is from about 2005 hobgoblin, so i figure most any of the Ubuntus will probably work on it.
[07:47] <hobgoblin> what problem have you got?
[07:47] <nUboon2Age> Bug # 605290
[07:49] <seidos> I have newish hardware and it doesn't all work
[07:49] <nUboon2Age> Bug# 605290
[07:49] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: got the real url not just the bug number - I'm too lazy to try typing it all out
[07:50] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: shouldn't that retrieve the bug?  how come it didn't?
[07:50] <nUboon2Age> sometimes it does.
[07:50] <hobgoblin> seidos: sometimes being tight works out :) all 3 of my machines are fairly old
[07:50] <nUboon2Age> ! Bug# 605290
[07:50] <ubot2> Factoid 'Bug# 605290' not found
[07:51] <seidos> hobgoblin, actually, I take it back, now that I'm using kernel 2.6.30 things are working pretty good.  My wireless doesn't drop when I resume from hibernate/suspend.  Though, I suspect power management is probably still flaky
[07:51] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: nvm found it
[07:52] <seidos> hobgoblin, what do you mean by "tight"?  thrifty?
[07:52] <hobgoblin> yep :)
[07:52] <hobgoblin> very thrifty :)
[07:52] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: sometimes when i give a bug number the bots will retrieve the bug, but not that time. ???
[07:52] <seidos> I am thrifty as well.  I actually regret buying this particular laptop, I probably could've got an older laptop with better support for ubuntu.  I gave my laptop a 3/5 on the hcl.
[07:53] <hobgoblin> seidos: possibly I don't have hibernate - but I don't use it
[07:53] <seidos> hobgoblin, do you have a laptop?
[07:53] <hobgoblin> one machine stays on all the time, one is my daughter's and is on sp[oradically and this one boots while I make my first cup of tea
[07:53] <hobgoblin> no laptops
[07:54] <hobgoblin> if I Was buying one I would be very careful about what I bought
[07:54] <seidos> yeah, laptops are not supported as ubiquitously apparently
[07:54] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: I have seen your issue before I am sure
[07:54] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: really!?!?  do tell
[07:54] <hobgoblin> I would always ask people in here and on the forums
[07:55] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: sorry - it's early and I've not had enough 'ine yet - I've seen you with your issue
[07:56] <nUboon2Age> i searched a fair bit (not exhaustively) but so far hadn't run across others with it.  i hadn't posted it to the forums yet.  i'm suffering dearly with it. :(
[07:58] <hobgoblin> I would post on the forum - if you get people saying they have the same thing send them to the bug to mark it as affects them and someone to confirm it
[07:59] <nUboon2Age> seidos: hobgoblin: making a liveusb w/ PCLinuxOS now.  I put 6.06 on there too.  haven't done the ReactOS or other OS yet.
[07:59] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: simple question here - I see you have an aftermarket power supply - have you tried another one?
[08:00] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: i had the stock one but i had problems with it so replaced it and the battery at the same time.  I'm confident it is hw related to a degree but since i can reboot and 'fix' the problem i'm also confident it is software related as well.
[08:02] <hobgoblin> hi there robbmunson
[08:02] <robbmunson> morning =)
[08:02] <pedro3005> hey robbmunson , hobgoblin
[08:02] <hobgoblin> o/ pedro3005
[08:03] <nUboon2Age> seidos: hobgoblin: that's one awesome multiboot liveUSB i've got.  its got 10.04, 10.04 UNE, 10.04 Kubuntu, 8.04, 6.06 and PCLinuxOS (latest whatever that is) on it. :)
[08:04] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: seidos: okay rebooting to try out PCLinuxOS Enlightenment and 6.06 now...
[08:04] <hobgoblin> I'd try the pclinuxos one first
[08:04] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: will do
[08:06] <seidos> I think he should be paying more attention to kernel version, and less to distro.
[08:07] <hobgoblin> yep
[08:08] <hobgoblin> hardware can just be a nightmare ... I would say more likely to get a result froma different distro than a different version of the same one
[08:15] <seidos> I think it depends.  different version of ubuntu have different kernels, but different version of ubuntu vs fedora might not, and it will be hard to keep track of the kernel versions, which is really what I think he wants to focus on.
[08:15] <hobgoblin> but why focus on kernel versions - I'd just be wanting the thing to work
[08:16] <seidos> because focusing on kernel version is the only hope for it to work, aside from kernel hacking.
[08:16] <seidos> that's how I see it, anyway.
[08:16] <seidos> it's either try different kernels, or wait for a developer to get his bug and work on it and fix it.
[08:17] <hobgoblin> well what about situations where same kernel in ubuntu fails but same kernel in say fedora works ok
[08:17] <seidos> example?
[08:20] <hobgoblin> seidos:  not got one of the top of my head but you see them about the forum
[08:21] <seidos> hobgoblin, I'm going to do a search, that is an interesting situation.
[08:21] <seidos> hobgoblin, ubuntuforums.org?
[08:21] <robbmunson> it has to do with the flags set in the compiled kernel....
[08:21] <hobgoblin> mmmm - could be - though I look at a lot of linux forums
[08:21] <robbmunson> (if its one given by the developers of said distros that is.)
[08:22] <nUboon2Age> seidos: hobgoblin: PCLinuxOS, couldn't log on, cuz i didn't know the password, but at the log on i tried it and got similar behavior.  6.06 seemed to hang (didn't have the patience to wait around to know for sure).
[08:23] <seidos> robbmunson, I was thinking how it's compiled might be it, but I've never compiled my own kernel, and have never seen compilation fix a problem.  I heard compiling your own firefox would make it faster though, I haven't tried though.
[08:23] <seidos> I probably should
[08:23]  * seidos downloads firefox source
[08:23] <robbmunson> it was just a random thought, i mean it sounds extremely logical in my little brain.
[08:23] <hobgoblin> :)
[08:24] <nUboon2Age> i guess the guest password is "guest"
[08:25] <seidos> well, maybe compiling firefox will shed some light on the situation.  I won't be compiling my own kernel anytime soon.
[08:27] <seidos> I have a weird folder in my ~/programs folder
[08:28] <seidos> it's called ##C, and I can't rm it or mv it
[08:29] <seidos> when I change directories to it, it just goes to ~/
[08:30] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: user guest password guest user root password root
[08:39] <nUboon2Age> now putting EasyPeasy, FreeDos and Fedora13 on the LiveUSB.  Neither ReactOS nor Snow Leopard were supported by Multiboot so will skip for now...
[08:44] <nUboon2Age> oh and deli too.
[08:45] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: i'll try PCLinuxOS again w/ those passwords while i'm at it too...
[08:46] <seidos> nUboon2Age, I still think a systematic test of as many kernels as you can get your hands on would be a better way to find a solution.
[08:46] <nUboon2Age> seidos: how would i do that?
[08:46] <seidos> nUboon2Age, well, you can check what kernels you have installed, by looking at the grub menu.
[08:47] <nUboon2Age> 8.08 was different but still not working.
[08:47] <nUboon2Age> seidos: i only have two installed unfortunately
[08:47] <seidos> nUboon2Age, then you can search for a how to on how to install the other kernels.  I installed 2.6.30 on jaunty, and it was like 3 steps.
[08:47] <seidos> let me find that how to
[08:48] <seidos> nUboon2Age, here is a how to I followed to get 2.6.30 on jaunty:  http://ubuntu.igameilive.com/2009/08/2630-kernel-on-jaunty-jackalope.html
[08:49] <hobgoblin> I'd certainly agree that a sytematic way of looking at this is needed
[08:51] <swoody> heya hobgoblin :)
[08:52] <hobgoblin> hi swoody
[08:52] <swoody> hobgoblin: how's things going?
[08:52] <hobgoblin> pretty good ty - yourself?
[08:53] <swoody> hobgoblin: oh just starting to relax now, I just got home from work a couple mins ago
[08:53] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: what graphics driver are you using - I wonder if the flickering screen is something different and you have more than one issue
[08:53] <hobgoblin> swoody: cool :) I've not been up long and am just about awake now
[08:54] <swoody> hobgoblin: ah, what time is it over there?
[08:54] <hobgoblin> 9am
[08:54] <swoody> ah, not bad. 6hrs ahead of me :P
[08:55] <hobgoblin> :)
[08:59] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: seidos: i'm starting w/ synaptics install of 32.23 (which is the one that gave me so much trouble before) and 32.24.  How do i change the order in grub to set which one is default?
[09:00] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: how do i check the graphics driver again?
[09:00] <hobgoblin> lspci
[09:00] <seidos> hobgoblin, +2 on the graphics driver observation
[09:00] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: I'd not muck about changing default - just make the menu visible and choose
[09:01] <hobgoblin> seidos: I'm waking up lol
[09:01] <nUboon2Age> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[09:01] <nUboon2Age> 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[09:02] <nUboon2Age> hobgoblin: but afterwards i'll either have to uninstall or be stuck with the newest one as default, yes?
[09:02] <seidos> I have integrated graphics, but it's a 960/965, and the newer kernels don't appear to work with it
[09:05] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: one step at a time :)
[09:05] <hobgoblin> there's a wiki page for grub2 that will show you how to do what you want
[09:12] <hobgoblin> nUboon2Age: whole bunch of flcikering intel graphics threads - most appear to use vesa as the grpahics driver or adding a nomodeset options to the kernel - some adding of noapic
[09:12] <hobgoblin> but I have to go now
[09:12] <hobgoblin> back later
[09:12] <seidos> I noticed firefox 3.6.8 is more responsive, but I didn't compile it.  I just downloaded a compiled binary apparently.
[09:16] <nUboon2Age> seidos: hobgoblin: i'll try this and the other LiveUSBs now
[09:17] <nUboon2Age> seidos: if that doesn't work i'll try some older kernels with the howto you provided (i saved it).
[09:17] <nUboon2Age> rebooting now...
[09:17] <seidos> good luck
[09:18] <nUboon2Age> :/
[10:36] <duanedesign> morning all
[10:51] <xsaiddx> hello
[10:52] <xsaiddx> anyone kno how to add lubuntu repo to my lubuntu ?
[10:58] <duanedesign> kosaidpo: helo
[10:58] <kosaidpo> hello
[10:58] <kosaidpo> tnx its done
[10:58] <kosaidpo> im such real blind i didnt it see it its laready there
[10:59] <duanedesign> kosaidpo: which repo
[10:59] <duanedesign> is it this one?
[10:59] <duanedesign> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:lubuntu-desktop/ppa
[11:00] <kosaidpo> yehh
[11:00] <kosaidpo> its already there i sjt didnt see it : )
[11:00] <duanedesign> Lubuntu is nice, i like it
[11:00] <duanedesign> xubuntu isnt as 'light' as it once might of been.
[11:00] <kosaidpo> yehh
[11:00] <kosaidpo> me too
[11:01] <kosaidpo> and that kbuntu i didnt get it at all even its has a fancy look tho
[11:01] <kosaidpo> but its too slow
[11:02] <duanedesign> kosaidpo: yeah i wouldnt run kubuntuu on anything but a newer desktop
[11:03] <kosaidpo> yeh true if not then you must be good at ptiente and waitin : D
[11:19] <duanedesign> :)
[11:52] <xsaiddx> hello guys
[11:52] <xsaiddx> my home is mounted on mtab but not on fstab how can i fix this
[11:52] <xsaiddx> tnx
[13:56] <kosaidpo> hello
[14:00] <kermiac> has anyone setup http://wouter.coekaerts.be/site/irssi/nicklist without using 'screen'?
[14:14] <duanedesign>  kermiac hmm
[14:16] <JoeMaverickSett> is it cool, using irssi, btw?
[14:17] <kermiac> JoeMaverickSett: I like irssi, however I would like to be able to see who is in the channel so I don't try talking to someone who isn't there haha
[14:22] <JoeMaverickSett> kermiac, lol!
[14:23] <JoeMaverickSett> btw, which is the correct one to sort of show on the chat screen "/msg me ...." or "/msg ......" [.... refers to the message!]
[14:26] <kermiac> hmmm... I can workaround it with http://scripts.irssi.org/scripts/ls.pl
[14:26] <kermiac> JoeMaverickSett: I'm not sure I understand what you mean mate
[14:28] <JoeMaverickSett> kermiac, coz just now when i did /msg me .... i think it was sent to a person[not on the list] called *me*... lol
[14:31] <JoeMaverickSett> i got it! /me to show msg [kinda like the status msg ones] and /msg nick ... to send msg....!! just realized how noob i'm in IRCs.
[14:32] <kermiac> JoeMaverickSett: ah, that's what you mean :)
[14:34] <JoeMaverickSett> kermiac, yup! see how noob i'm. =D
[14:37] <kermiac> JoeMaverickSett: noone is born with this knowledge mate, we were all "noobs" at some stage ;)
[14:38] <JoeMaverickSett> kermiac, eh! now i got the motivation! thanks! =D
[14:39] <duanedesign> kermiac: i set up the nicklist once. But it was in screen
[14:43] <kermiac> duanedesign: yeah, I'm only seeing instructions on how to do it using screen :(   I'm using znc, not screen. I found a way to workaround it though
[14:46] <duanedesign> kermiac: do you use adv_windowlist ?
[14:47] <kermiac> duanedesign: yeah, that plugin is great
[14:48] <duanedesign> kermiac: yeah i forgot how much i like it until i tried to use a default install of irssi the other day
[14:48] <paultag> kermiac: oy mate!
[14:48] <paultag> hey duanedesign :D
[14:48] <paultag> duanedesign: I just gave you an orangered
[14:48] <duanedesign> heyo ptago
[14:48] <paultag> yo yo
[14:49] <kermiac> hey there paultag!
[14:49] <paultag> kermiac: how does one greet another in true Austraian fasion ?
[14:50] <kermiac> paultag: I'm not sure I should say that in an official ubuntu channel ;)
[14:50] <paultag> hahahaha
[14:50] <paultag> man, this is why I love having you on the team kermiac :)
[14:51] <kermiac> aww shucks :)
[14:51] <duanedesign> paultag: is an Orangred another word for message on rreddit?
[14:51] <duanedesign> and what is an upboat?
[14:51] <paultag> duanedesign: yeah because the envolope turns the color exactly between orange and red
[14:51] <paultag> duanedesign: upvote == upboat
[14:51] <duanedesign> aha
[14:51] <paultag> == upgoat
[14:57] <tdn> How do I disable gnome-key-ring?
[15:01] <shpongle> tdn, that's simple
[15:01] <shpongle> tdn, System > Preferences > Startup Applications.
[15:12] <tdn> shpongle, thanks.
[15:13] <paultag> shpongle: mind joining us over in #ubuntnu-beginner-team ?
[15:13] <tdn> paultag, what is #ubuntnu-beginner-team?
[15:13] <paultag> tdn: it's the team social channel :)
[15:13] <shpongle> tdn, sure thing :)
[15:13]  * shpongle is joining
[15:13] <tdn> paultag, ok.
[15:14] <shpongle> #ubuntu-beginners-team
[15:14] <shpongle> oops
[15:14] <paultag> shpongle: /join #ubuntu-beginners-team
[15:30] <somethinginteres> I have my monitor cofigured through NVIDA X Server Settings so that I can use my TV as a second monitor (TwinView) but sometimes dialog boxes and programs start on the TV vs on the monitor which is primary. Any pointers?
[17:42] <morri> hi
[17:43] <morri> I have got a sony vaio of 2003 about, anyway , the usb sockets seem to be failing lately,
[17:44] <morri> as they disconnect devices that are working perfectly every couple of minutes
[17:45] <morri> I have an usb driven prtable harddrive on one and I don't think it is good for it if it is getting disconnected just like that
[17:47] <hobgoblin> morri, not much to go on - I would open a terminal - wait for one to fail then run this dmesg |tail
[17:48] <hobgoblin> morri - hopefully it would bring a bit more information - you can paste it to a pastebin and then bring the url here - paste.ubuntu.com
[17:48] <morri> thanks I'll try that :)
[17:50] <hobgoblin> welcome - always good to have as much info as possible
[17:51] <morri> oh an dif I my ask a question on a different subject: currently I have turned the 'hibernate' or suspend option off because I found that after hibernation the computer the screen won't come back . when i restart the computer(rather rough way) it says something like screen settings could not be saved or sth like that.
[17:52] <hobgoblin> I have seen a few of the same issues on the forum - unfortuantely I am about to wander off for a while - hopefully someone will see and respond
[17:54] <morri> ok , the usb just plugged off again but I was too late to do the terminal entry as it has reactivated istef again
[17:55] <hobgoblin> still run it
[17:55] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471526/
[17:55] <hobgoblin> anyway I will be back later
[17:55] <morri> cool
[17:56] <hobgoblin> morri: try dmesg |tail -30
[17:56] <hobgoblin> paste that one
[17:56] <hobgoblin> back later
[17:57] <morri> yeah ok .just need to find the beginning
[17:58] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471529/
[17:59] <hobgoblin> morri: try dmesg |tail -40 see if we can catch the beginning of the fail
[17:59] <hobgoblin> and really back later now :D
[17:59] <morri> haha ok good :)
[18:01] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471531/
[18:04] <uRock> Line 15 [ 3835.520551] end_request: I/O error, dev sdc, sector 25802657 may be what you are looking for in that, but I don't know how to troubleshoot it
[18:05] <morri> i managed to catch it while it was off:
[18:06] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471532/
[18:08] <uRock> morri, there may be someone in the #ubuntu irc that can help. There are some good minds in that channel, it is just a matter of getting their attention.
[18:09] <morri> cool thanks I'll try
[18:17] <hobgoblin> back
[18:17] <hobgoblin> corrytonapple: funny to see you - I just replied to your thread
[18:19] <morri> ok hobgoblin this is what it found when it was just unplugged
[18:19] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471536/
[18:22] <morri> hi, I have got a problem with my USB socket. http://paste.ubuntu.com/471536/
[18:24] <hobgoblin> morri: I would be thinking that there was something wrong with it - do you only have a linux box you can plug it into?
[18:25] <hobgoblin> ie have to been able to verify other things  - changing cables, changing usb ports, changing machines
[18:26] <somethinginteres> In the software updater, I seem to have a ghosted out item from a PPA   - never had this before
[18:26] <morri> yes
[18:26] <morri> and the laptop also kicks out other usb devices too though
[18:26] <hobgoblin> somethinginteres: then it is not ready to be upgraded yet then - at least that is the normal explanation
[18:27] <hobgoblin> morri: ok - so does the laptop only have ubuntu on it ?
[18:27] <somethinginteres> hobgoblin: by 'ready' do you mean no update has been released for that component?
[18:27] <morri> no actually it has windows too(or rather i am running wubi on windows as i neithe rhave usb boot up nor a working cd/dvd drive
[18:28] <morri> it does seem to kick out stuff under windows too though as I can see that my usb wlan stick has to reconnect every now and then as well
[18:28] <hobgoblin> somethinginteres: usually the update manager will tell you something about it - does it say something along the lines of blah ready for update and one held back
[18:28] <morri> and I know that this is not from the wireless router side
[18:29] <hobgoblin> morri - maybe worth checking that it does it with this drive as well in windows - could be dodgy usb sockets on the laptop
[18:29] <hobgoblin> certainyl would appear to be hardware if it happens in both
[18:29] <somethinginteres> hobgoblin: not that I can see just says 'system is up to date'
[18:30] <hobgoblin> somethinginteres: close the update manager, open a terminal and do sudo apt-get update &&sudo apt-get upgrade
[18:31] <hobgoblin> post the results to paste.ubuntu.com - name in box and hit paste - leet us have the new url
[18:32] <somethinginteres> hobgoblin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/471542/
[18:34] <hobgoblin> somethinginteres: The following packages have been kept back:    at some point it will be ready and it will not be greyed out
[18:34] <somethinginteres> hobgoblin: no worries, thanks
[18:35] <hobgoblin> welcome :)
[18:36] <morri> I guess it is ready for a new laptop basically ;_; as usb is effed, and cd/dvd drive... *sugh*
[18:38] <hobgoblin> morri: I'm not saying that is definitely the case, but failing in 2 OS's would tend to point a bad hardware somewhere
[18:38] <hobgoblin> sorry I can;t be of more help
[18:38] <morri> thanks for your help :)
[18:39] <hobgoblin> welcome :)
[18:39] <morri> do you know where in windows(xp) one had to test whether it is a bad one?
[18:41] <stlsaint> morri: test what?
[18:41] <morri> the usb socket
[18:42] <stlsaint> hrm, i dont know of any default programs that do that aside from device manager
[18:43] <stlsaint> morri: device manager can probably test your usb drives
[18:43] <stlsaint> not sure, been some time since i touched admin stuff for xp ;)
[18:43] <morri> yea although the device manager is always quite confusing, because it always talk of usb devices that I can't see..
[18:45] <morri> anyway stlsaint, do you know how to check on the screen to my other problem which is posted earlier in the session:
[18:45] <morri> currently I have turned the 'hibernate' or suspend option off because I found that after hibernation the computer the screen won't come back . when i restart the computer(rather rough way) it says something like screen settings could not be saved or sth like that.
[18:45] <stlsaint> morri: have you removed all options in the power manager?
[18:45] <hobgoblin> morri: sorry last win I used properly was a long time ago
[18:46] <morri> I haven't removed the options I just put them on never
[18:46] <stlsaint> duanedesign: ping
[18:46] <stlsaint> morri: yea thats what i meant
[18:47] <stlsaint> morri: tbh past that im not sure
[18:48] <morri> I did that because everytime i put it on stadn-by or it putiself on standby it started again( i can hear it from the fan moving again) but the screen was not awaking again
[18:49] <stlsaint> morri: in xp?
[18:49] <morri> and if I did a reboot(rather ungently via the power button as the shortcuts would work either) it says something like couldnt save screen settings or something like that
[18:49] <morri> nop in ubuntu
[18:49] <morri> wubi 10.4
[18:50] <stlsaint> morri: can you give the exact error?
[18:50] <morri> I don't know whether this may be a problem of it being wubi and not a real partioned one?
[18:50] <morri> I havent got the error available ,but maybe theres a way of finding it in terminal?
[18:51] <stlsaint> hrm, you could view your dmesg
[18:51] <morri> it only shows in a notification window after it returned after reboot
[18:52] <stlsaint> morri: view it in your logs
[18:52] <morri> whats the exact line I have to give in ?
[18:53] <stlsaint> look in /var/log/messages
[18:57] <morri> ok noiw I only need to find that error message
[19:00] <hobgoblin> see if it is simple with the terminal   ->   cat /var/log/messages |grep error
[19:03] <morri> it fidns a lot of unhandles errors...
[19:03] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471552/
[19:07] <morri> and this is my messgaes log for the past few days
[19:07] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471554/
[19:07] <morri> anyway I need to go for dinner now I come back later
[19:27] <morri> anybody find sth interesting?
[19:29] <stlsaint> morri: that post is empty
[19:29] <stlsaint> i see nothign but numbers on that paste
[19:29] <morri> thatsb strange
[19:29] <morri> i'll do a screenshot
[19:30] <stlsaint> morri: a simple paste will be more efficient
[19:30] <morri>   starngely enough it also only shows humbers on paste
[19:31] <morri> but i can clearly see the log, anyway that reminds me on the error message which said that a document was blank? or something like that
[19:33] <morri> maybe that has sth to do with it: ATAPI: MATSHITAUJ-810, C104, max UDMA/33 WARNING: ATAPI DMA disabled for reliability issues.  It can be enabled  WARNING: via pata_ali.atapi_dma modparam or corresponding sysfs node.
[19:46] <morri> Jul 31 16:04:08 ubuntu kernel: [19651.763020] ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready Jul 31 17:39:39 ubuntu kernel: imklog 4.2.0, log source = /proc/kmsg started. Jul 31 17:39:39 ubuntu rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion="4.2.0" x-pid="687" x-info="http://www.rsyslog.com"] (re)start Jul 31 17:39:39 ubuntu rsyslogd: rsyslogd's groupid changed to 103 Jul 31 17:39:39 ubuntu rsyslogd: rsyslogd's userid changed t
[19:50] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471571/
[19:51] <morri> http://paste.ubuntu.com/471573/
[19:52] <morri> #autism


[00:20] <greg-g> bdmurray: should cosmetic (nothing is broken, not adding a new feature) bugs be set to Low (and not wishlist, since it isn't a new feature)?  Is so, should I add that to the wiki for bugs/importance?
[00:22] <bdmurray> greg-g: Do you have an example?  I'm have a hard time thinking of one
[00:24] <greg-g> bug 218436
[00:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218436 in meta-gnome2 "untidy layout in gnome system monitor summary (system) tab [cosmetic only]" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218436
[00:25] <greg-g> a very nit-picky bug.  and I use the word "nit-picky" in a nice way :)
[00:25] <bdmurray> That's great!  I love how people draw in screenshots.
[00:26] <greg-g> :) me too, I do it sometimes myself :)
[00:26] <greg-g> and yeah, that bug would definitely go upstream
[00:27] <bdmurray> Back to your original question, yes that sounds like a perfect example of a low priority bug.  I think string-fix bugs should be low too.
[00:27] <greg-g> Ok
[00:27] <greg-g> is that "important" enough of a condition to add it to the importance wiki page?
[00:30] <greg-g> ie: add "Cosmetic/Usability issues that do not limit functionality" to Low
[00:31] <bdmurray> Yes, I think more examples can't hurt. moderate impact and core application are quite subjective
[00:31] <greg-g> cool, and that wording clear and accurate?
[00:33] <bdmurray> Yes, that sounds good to me
[00:33]  * greg-g changes it
[00:34] <bdmurray> Thanks!
[00:34] <bdmurray> Have you seen any iso-testing bugs at all?
[00:35] <greg-g> there was one recently that I didn't completely read since it was about the size of a stephen king novel
[00:36] <greg-g> well, nevermind, it was about the old beta build, not an up to date iso build
[00:38] <greg-g> so, no, I have not
[00:39] <bdmurray> lol - stephen king
[00:40]  * greg-g thinks he gets paid per page
[00:40] <bdmurray> some of them can be found at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/report
[00:41] <bdmurray> those are the most recent ones which I'm trying to go through now
[00:41] <greg-g> ahh, yeah, I forgot that the qa site is pretty thurough
[00:42] <bdmurray> yeah, its nice that it has counts on comments, subscribers and duplicates
[00:43] <greg-g> I like it.  the more I learn about the tools used in ubuntu development the more I am impressed.  Of course, I don't use them all that much (if any, other than LP) so I can't make a full analysis, but they seem nice.
[00:44] <greg-g> ie: the qa site and revu
[00:47] <crimsun> bug 215904
[00:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 215904 in openldap2.3 "Assertion error in io.c:234: ber_flush2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215904
[00:48] <bdmurray> crimsun: hi
[00:50] <crimsun> bdmurray: hi
[00:51] <bdmurray> crimsun: do you have a moment? well maybe 2
[00:51] <crimsun> sure
[00:53] <bdmurray> bug 204345 is about setting the default sound card for pulseaudio, is there a way to do that using a GUI tool?
[00:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 204345 in pulseaudio "[hardy] [amd64] system sounds and flash sound output are redirected to the wrong sound card" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204345
[00:53] <crimsun> bdmurray: pavucontrol
[00:53] <crimsun> bdmurray: unfortunately it does not immediately take effect, because pulseaudio does not currently have a callback to reparse the gconf value
[00:54] <crimsun> (the setting takes effect on the next time the stream is started, which is normally the next time the app is restarted)
[00:54] <bdmurray> that's not on the Live CD though is it?
[00:55] <crimsun> no, the tools are all in the universe component.
[00:55] <bdmurray> hmmm, that seems weird to me
[00:55] <crimsun> OTOH, one can use `pacmd' in the pulseaudio-utils package, which is in main.
[00:56] <crimsun> I made some changes earlier that basically pull in all of the tools if you install one of the others
[00:56] <crimsun> the main one is really padevchooser
[00:56] <crimsun> it's a horrible UI mess, however
[00:57] <bdmurray> that leads well into question 2! is there a way to better name output devices?
[00:58] <crimsun> meaning PulseAudio sinks or ALSA sinks?
[00:59] <bdmurray> PulseAudio sinks I believe
[00:59] <crimsun> those are pretty much lifted from what hal exposes
[01:00] <crimsun> so, no, not that I know of, and not easily.
[01:00] <bdmurray> okay
[01:02] <bdmurray> Do you know anything about Creative X-Fi sound card support? the alsa bug doesn't have any recent information
[01:03] <crimsun> currently for ALSA, only the ca0106-driven models are supported
[01:03] <crimsun> currently Creative offers an x86_64 one that covers all models using the ALSA API
[01:04] <crimsun> currently for OSSv4.1, all ALSA-supported ones (ca0106) and then a minimal new more are supported
[01:06] <crimsun> note that given asac's changes to flashplugin-nonfree, a user cannot use pavucontrol (by default) to select the PulseAudio sink
[01:06] <crimsun> the user will need to use `asoundconf set-default-card', a command line utility in the alsa-utils package, to do so
[01:08] <crimsun> (...or a user may use my Qt 3/4 or Toby's GTK 2 frontends for asoundconf)
[01:10] <bdmurray> how does flashplugin-nonfree affect it?
[01:10] <crimsun> (i.e., https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~motu/asoundconf-ui/trunk and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~tsmithe/asoundconf-ui/trunk, respectively)
[01:11] <crimsun> with libflashsupport installed, a user can select the default output sink in PA for a Flash output
[01:11] <crimsun> however, libflashsupport was demoted to Suggests instead of Depends
[01:12] <crimsun> therefore, by default, a dist-upgrade will not pull in the PA compat layer for the non-Free Flash plugin, but PA will be installed by default
[01:12] <crimsun> presuming a user had GNOME's "Enable software sound mixing" enabled in System> Preferences> Sound, a user will experience the issue that I described
[01:13] <crimsun> (note that I concur with the move to demote libflashsupport to Suggests)
[01:14] <bdmurray> okay, I think I understand now
[01:47] <psyke83> Hi, I realize that we're very close to release, but how do I get more attention for a last-minute bugfix? I have attached patches for the Murrine and Ubuntulooks engine to fix a cosmetic issue in Firefox, can it be included? It's at bug 195929
[01:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 195929 in gtk2-engines-murrine "Cosmetic bug: rectangular white outline surrounding rounded buttons" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195929
[01:48] <psyke83> that status "fix committed" is misleading, it was fixed upstream but ubuntu's version was not
[01:49] <psyke83> I'm also running Fedora rawhide and noticed that the Nodoka engine has this fix included
[02:01] <bdmurray> psyke83: I'm looking at it
[02:39] <syke> hi
[02:39] <syke> I just attached my lspci output to bug 197558
[02:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197558 in linux "ssb module breaks BCM4328 with ndiswrapper (regression from 2.6.24-10)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197558
[02:39] <syke> which is still broken for me, as of today
[02:39] <syke> am getting real nervous it won't be fixed before release ;(
[03:12] <danage> hi! anybody here know bluez
[03:13] <danage> and wants to help triage a bug i have
[03:31] <syke> dunno him, but what's the bug?
[03:54] <danage> anybody here want to help me triaging a bug in bluetooth (bluez)
[03:59] <saivann> danage  : perhaps that I can help
[04:00] <saivann> danage : Also if you want to confirm this bug, I found a pretty interesting one : bug #218489
[04:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218489 in openoffice.org "X freeze when switching between OpenOffice and Firefox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218489
[04:00] <saivann> oh...
[04:01] <saivann> Does somebody want to confirm that freezing bug?
[04:05] <bdmurray> saivann: I'll give it a shot
[04:05] <saivann> bdmurray : looks like compiz eat all the CPU, but does not crash
[04:05] <saivann> bdmurray : thanks
[04:06] <saivann> This bug might be reported against compiz too
[04:07] <saivann> bdmurray : I'm actually connected through ssh to my remote machine and I see that compiz progressively eat more and more CPU, so I'm waiting to see if it finally crash, it's 87% now
[04:10] <greg-g> saivann: switching via alt-tab?
[04:11] <bdmurray> and which effects too?
[04:11] <greg-g> it isn't crashing here
[04:11] <greg-g> or freezing
[04:11] <bdmurray> I'm using "Hollywood got nothing" w/ intel and I'm not having an issue
[04:12] <saivann> greg-g : not alt-tab, just with the mouse
[04:12] <saivann> mmh, might be specific to some plugin..
[04:12] <greg-g> bdmurray: you're using what?
[04:12] <greg-g> saivann: either way, no freeze
[04:13] <saivann> bdmurray or greg-g : Did you use the attached file and waited for openoffice toolbox to appear?
[04:13] <bdmurray> greg-g: The "Hollywood got nothing" profile
[04:13] <saivann> my laptop actually use the default "extra" effects with compiz
[04:14] <greg-g> saivann: yeah, supplied file and with both the toolbox in the menu bar, and the toolbox in its own window
[04:15] <saivann> Really?? Strange, I can reproduce that behavior on my two computers here, my laptop is freshly installed and has only xchat-gnome installed outside of the default packages
[04:16] <saivann> and did you switch between windows by clicking on each windows simultaneously on the bottom of the screen while the toolbox in its own window was open?
[04:17] <saivann> Hardy beta, BTW
[04:17] <saivann> my other computer is fully up to date
[04:21] <bdmurray> I tried every switcher and had no problems like you are talking about
[04:21] <saivann> When I tried to get a backtrace, OpenOffice exited normally, by itself without any strace, and compiz started to eat CPU slowly
[04:21] <Nic1> hi there, i think i'm experiencing a bug and i'd need some help on how to post it
[04:22] <saivann> bdmurray : Mmh, strange, well thanks for the time you took..
[04:22] <Nic1> i have a sony vaio VGN-N250FH, and i'm having this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/191137 (i say this because maybe it's related), i start the system on battery power and then connect it...
[04:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191137 in linux "[Hardy] ACPI Embedded Controller (EC) stops boot when kernel boot 'quiet' option is enabled" [High,In progress]
[04:22] <bdmurray> Anything to play with Hollywood got nothing!
[04:23] <Nic1> the problem is that my battery life is 50% less than in feisty!
[04:23] <Nic1> (it just lives for an hour or so...)
[04:23] <Nic1> anyone knows if this bug is related to the battery life?
[04:24] <bdmurray> Nic1: that bug is about not being able to boot last time I looked at it.  Is that your issue?
[04:24] <saivann> Nic1 : This bug seems to be already in hands of developers.. That's what I see so far
[04:25] <Nic1> yes, i know... i just mentioned it, because maybe it's related to my other problem :) :VV
[04:25] <Nic1> the problem is that my battery life is 50% less than in feisty!
[04:26] <Nic1> is there an open bug for this? or any suggestions on how can i find more information on this?
[04:26] <bdmurray> What kind of testing have you done?
[04:26] <saivann> bdmurray greg-g : I just reproduced the bug on another computer with Intel graphic card, perhaps that we're just misunderstanding, do you know a program that can record video with the screen so I can show the exact steps?
[04:27] <bdmurray> saivann: istanbul
[04:27] <bdmurray> It's fantastic for creating screencasts of bugs!
[04:28] <saivann> bdmurray : Well, I will try it now :)
[04:28] <bdmurray> I'm excited to see it.
[04:29] <greg-g> heh
[04:30] <greg-g> Nic1: <bdmurray> What kind of testing have you done?
[04:33] <Nic1> greg-g: no tests, as i was looking guidance here :) what can i do for testing? i just know that battery life is much less than a few days ago when i was using feisty
[04:39] <saivann> bdmurray : It's uploading, I did it with metacity because it's the only way to stay alife :) Notice that each time that I click on the Firefox window, the window does not come up but looks like it's minimized. With Compiz enabled, everything freeze except the mouse at this point
[04:40] <saivann> bdmurray : It's in the bug report
[04:42] <bdmurray> saivann: you did that with istanbul?
[04:42] <saivann> bdmurray : Yes, istanbul is great
[04:42] <bdmurray> the file you uploaded has no extension
[04:43] <saivann> bdmurray you should be able to open it with totem
[04:43] <saivann> bdmurray : it's a ogg
[04:44] <bdmurray> right, that's the default format for istanbul but I don't think it actually adds a '.ogg' bit so it wasn't watchable w/in a firefox tab
[04:45] <saivann> bdmurray : Oh sorry, I missed the extension, are you able to download it?
[04:45] <bdmurray> sure, I'm watching it
[04:45] <saivann> great
[04:46] <saivann> I'll remember istanbul :) It's been a while that was wondering if such program exist
[04:46] <bdmurray> I've been meaning to write something up about it
[04:47] <bdmurray> I think it can help w/ language and communication issues too
[04:47] <saivann> bdmurray : Yes, this kind of tool can be really helpful in many cases
[04:50] <greg-g> and screenshots with drawing in them!
[04:50] <greg-g> ;)
[04:50] <bdmurray> yeah!
[04:50] <bdmurray> saivann: what is that sun logo in your oo splash?
[04:51] <saivann> bdmurray : Update to the latest openoffice.org in Hardy, I just saw it too
[04:52] <greg-g> Nic1: sorry, almost forgot.  So, best thing would be to search Launchpad concerning battery life and your laptop, if you can't find anything, report a bug and follow the "filing a bug report" from this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingACPI
[04:52] <bdmurray> Okay, I'm updating then.
[04:52] <greg-g> yeah, I was wondering about that change
[04:52] <saivann> bdmurray : I remember that we had to do a SRU because of the ubuntu logo with gutsy so we might want to prevent it this time :)
[04:53] <greg-g> saivann: to change it TO the ubuntu logo?
[04:54] <bdmurray> I'm looking into it
[04:54] <saivann> greg-g : To remove the ubuntu logo from the openoffice splash
[04:54] <greg-g> saivann: oh, gotcha
[04:54]  * greg-g was confused
[04:54] <saivann> greg-g : So it might be the same idea with sun logo :)
[04:54] <saivann> greg-g : No matter, I'm native french and I'm sure that I do a lot of mistakes when I speak in english..
[04:55] <bdmurray> It was intentional
[04:55] <greg-g> no, not with how you said it.  I just forgot that happened.
[04:59] <saivann> bdmurray : According to the changelog, it fixes bug #199193 but this bug was just about wrong openoffice.org version. I don't see explanation in the changelogs for the sun logo, but the upstream splash might now have this logo
[04:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199193 in openoffice.org "[Ubuntu] [hardy] openoffice splash shows incorrect version in hardy" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199193
[05:00] <saivann> greg-g : Ha :)
[05:00] <greg-g> :)
[05:01] <greg-g> uh oh, a "please try again" on LP
[05:01] <saivann> Sometime LP is overloaded..
[05:02] <greg-g> it was just the edge server
[05:02] <saivann> bdmurray : Did you have more success with my little video or still unable to reproduce the bug?
[05:03] <bdmurray> saivann: well, I had to update openoffice
[05:03] <bdmurray> I'm testing again now. ;)
[05:03] <saivann> bdmurray : Oh yeah, ok :)
[05:04] <greg-g> I just did too (it was just from -ubuntu2 to -ubuntu3) but still I can't reproduce it
[05:04] <bdmurray> greg-g: ubuntu3? what mirror are you using?  I have ubuntu5
[05:04] <saivann> Well, I reproduce it with both openoffice latest version and openoffice version from Hardy Beta.
[05:06] <greg-g> bdmurray: oh, yeah, ubuntu5, I looked at the version a while ago when it first told me to update, remembered wrong :)
[05:08] <bdmurray> Okay, I've been unable to recreate it
[05:09] <saivann> Well... that's awful.. sorry for the lost time
[05:09] <bdmurray> It's not that lost!  We learned about istanbul.
[05:10] <greg-g> :)
[05:10] <saivann> BTW, OpenOffice 2.4.0 does have a Sun logo in splash screen under windows
[05:10] <saivann> Hehe, I'm happy about this, of course
[05:10] <saivann> I'm just wondering why all computers freeze here, maybe that's a regional specific bug? :)
[05:10] <bdmurray> If you go to Help -> About there is some, I think, new stuff there
[05:11] <bdmurray> Maybe it is a French thing? ;)
[05:11] <saivann> bdmurray : could have be the problem, but my laptop is using english :)
[05:12] <bdmurray> heh
[05:12] <saivann> I wonder if I can reproduce it from the LiveCD
[05:12] <bdmurray> The dailies are still pretty hot off the presses. ;)
[05:13] <saivann> hehe, well I'm waiting for the RC
[05:14] <bdmurray> If all goes well they will be the RC
[05:14] <saivann> BTW, each ubuntu release include incredibly huge amount of work, it's like a treasure
[05:16] <JohnPhys> anyone in here help manage the inkscape package in ubuntu?
[05:16] <bdmurray> JohnPhys: kees does but I don't think he is around at the moment
[05:18] <kees> JohnPhys: hola.  normally I'd be out, but what's up?
[05:18] <saivann> :)
[05:20] <JohnPhys> kees:  I'm wondering if the fix/patch for Bug #195052 (inkscape not rendering latex in hardy) has any shot at being included in the final release.  The bug was apparently not tagged as affecting ubuntu, though I just changed that.
[05:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 195052 in inkscape "Latex formula does not work on Ubuntu Hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195052
[05:22] <kees> JohnPhys: probably not -- we're very late in the release cycle, but I will read it more closely tomorrow and see if it can be snuck in.
[05:23] <JohnPhys> kees:  Thanks for your effort/time.  It looks like it's just a patch against one of those python scripts (eqntexsomething.py), so I think it would be low risk, but you would know better than I.
[05:26]  * greg-g sleeps
[09:27] <hrlr> anyone around?  :)
[09:28] <pochu> I guess many people
[09:30] <hrlr> hey pochu!  Were you able to figure out that Logger problem in Emesene?
[09:33] <pochu> hrlr: unfortunately I didn't. Upstream couldn't reproduce it but I could using svn...
[09:33] <pochu> I'll look another look at that in the future
[09:34] <hrlr> That's unfortunate.  No errors or anything.
[09:35] <pochu> yeah, and I don't know SQL...
[09:37] <pochu> wait!
[09:38] <pochu> hrlr: i've opened the logs for a contact and it's up to the latest word he told me!
[09:38] <pochu> 5 days ago
[09:38] <pochu> hrlr: could you check it?
[09:39] <hrlr> Are you running the latest svn?
[09:44] <hrlr> pochu: I just tested on the latest svn and I'm still having the same results.
[09:44] <hrlr> pochu: The db is being written to but the client can't read.
[09:55] <pochu> hrlr: no, the Ubuntu package
[09:56] <pochu> these conversation is five days old though
[09:57] <hrlr> no change.
[09:58] <hrlr> Just attempted in both svn and the Hardy package
[09:58] <hrlr> Cleared out the old config as well
[10:05] <pochu> hrlr: even if you close emesene and reopen it?
[10:06] <hrlr> yes.
[10:07] <hrlr> I get "No logs were found for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:08] <pochu> how do you open them?
[10:11] <hrlr> I right click on the contact and left click "View Conversation Log".
[10:12] <pochu> right
[10:12] <pochu> no idea then... will have to look closer, but not now
[10:12] <pochu> thanks for looking
[10:18] <hrlr> no problem!  Thanks!  :)
[11:28] <afflux> morning
[16:14] <askan1>  The shutdown dialog does not show when pressing the shutdownbutton, is that a known bug?
[16:15] <james_w> askan1: it works here, is there anything else that may be relevant?
[16:16] <askan1>  james_w: it is compizrelated..it shows with compiz of
[16:17] <james_w> askan1: I'm running compiz, you should have a look at your settings.
[16:17] <james_w> it may well be a plugin.
[16:18] <askan1> james_w: I will, are you using the "extrasettings"
[16:18] <askan1> ?
[16:18] <james_w> what are they?
[16:18] <askan1>  james_w: hm..in the desktopeffectsdialog
[16:19] <james_w> I'm running custom I think.
[16:20] <james_w> does anyone know the command to run to get that dialog up?
[16:20] <askan1>  james_w: just rightclick your desktop and select to change your wallpaper
[16:23] <james_w> askan1: I thought this was an issue with the shutdown dialog
[16:23] <james_w> ?
[16:24] <askan1> james_w: aa yes misunderstood you
[16:24] <james_w> ah, ok
[16:28] <bdmurray> saivann: ping
[17:09] <bdmurray> james_w: Did you say you have compiz running?
[17:10] <james_w> bdmurray: yup
[17:10] <bdmurray> Do you have the Cube setup or something else?
[17:11] <james_w> yeah, the cube
[17:11] <james_w> I can change it if you like
[17:11] <bdmurray> No, that's great.
[17:11] <bdmurray> If I hold Ctrl+Alt and try to go to the top of the cube I get logged out of gnome.
[17:13] <james_w> you meam grabbing the desktop?
[17:13] <bdmurray> right, with the pointer
[17:13] <james_w> hmm, I'm still here...
[17:14] <james_w> let me check another machine
[17:14] <james_w> nope, that's fine as well
[17:17] <bdmurray> hmmm
[17:48] <saivann> bdmurray : pong
[17:50] <bdmurray> saivann: are you familiar with bug 150930 at all?  Some said they ran into again, possibly after upgrading their comment is vague and uninformative.
[17:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150930 in ubiquity "Black screen, and bad usplash.conf after installation" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150930
[17:51] <saivann> bdmurray : Yes I marked so much duplicates of this bug. Let me take a look..
[17:52] <bdmurray> It isn't clear to me whether or not that bug will be resolved when upgrading.
[17:55] <saivann> bdmurray : IMO, it is not fixed when upgrading, especially that since Hardy use xrandr 1.3, it's very tricky for usplash to get values from X to put in /etc/usplash.conf
[17:59] <saivann> bdmurray : Commented
[18:00] <bdmurray> saivann: thanks!
[18:02] <saivann> ;) thanks for finding this out
[20:27] <jarlath> Hi. I've never done any bug squashing before, or used launchpad much. Could someone confirm my findings before I change the status of a bug?
[20:27] <jarlath> I believe that this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/218820
[20:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218820 in ubuntu "8.04 fails to boot with kernel 2.6.24-15 or 2.6.24-16" [Undecided,New]
[20:27] <jarlath> is a dupe of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/216353
[20:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216353 in linux "2.6.24 Kernel boot hangs on disk read ( ldm_validate_partition_table() )" [High,Triaged]
[20:28] <secretlondon> as it doesn't affect everybvody you need to check that the hardware is the same
[20:29] <secretlondon> or anything else that they might have in common, that other users don't have
[20:29] <secretlondon> as it could have more than one cause
[20:29] <jarlath> Okay.
[20:30] <bdmurray> also in bug 216353 they say -14 does not work while they say it does in 218820
[20:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216353 in linux "2.6.24 Kernel boot hangs on disk read ( ldm_validate_partition_table() )" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216353
[20:30] <secretlondon> it's more obvious with things like "audio doesn't work" that it could have multiple causes
[20:30] <bdmurray> getting the person in bug 218820 to boot w/o usplash would be quite helpful
[20:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218820 in ubuntu "8.04 fails to boot with kernel 2.6.24-15 or 2.6.24-16" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218820
[20:32] <jarlath> I'll ask. Thanks.
[20:32] <bdmurray> Thank you for helping out!
[20:33] <jarlath> My absolute pleasure. Thanks for an amazing OS!
[21:01] <jarlath> I'd appreciate some input on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/218831
[21:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218831 in ubuntu "Firefox install on Kubuntu 8.04 wants to download 116 MB of archives" [Undecided,New]
[21:01] <jarlath> It seems more like a complaint than a bug?
[21:01] <jarlath> And if it is to be treated as a bug, whos area is it?
[21:02] <greg-g> ok, impatient person question: how long does apport usually take to get to a "needs-amd64-retrace" bug?
[21:02] <greg-g> jarlath: that actually is a bug, because you shouldn't have to download openoffice to run firefox
[21:03] <greg-g> I remember there being some lauguage-pack dependency issues last week or so, I wonder what LiveCD is being used
[21:04] <greg-g> I would file it under firefox-3 for now, can always change it later as more information is discovered
[21:06] <bdmurray> greg-g: it is possible for the retracer to hang sometimes, how long has it been?
[21:10] <greg-g> bdmurray: hour and 20 minutes ago
[21:11] <greg-g> I told you I'm impatient :)
[21:11] <bdmurray> heh, I'll see if anyone w/ the right super powers is around
[21:12] <greg-g> oh, no worries, i was just wondering if there was some "if it takes longer than X amount of time, contact your representative" :)
[21:19] <jarlath> Okay guys, thanks. I'll put it down as affecting Firefox.
[21:22] <bdmurray> greg-g: the retracer is off at the moment
[21:23] <greg-g> bdmurray: ahh, thanks for the info.  And really, no rush on anything from my end.
[21:24] <jarlath> The reporter used the command 'apt-get firefox' for this bug to occur, but firefox 3 is what was offered for installation. Would I choose firefox or firefox3 package here?
[21:24] <bdmurray> firefox-3.0
[21:24] <jarlath> thanks
[21:27] <bdmurray> It'd be good to know which Live CD they noticed this with
[22:56] <_max_> id like to report what i concider a bug
[22:57] <_max_> in the installer (both alternate and regular) there is no way to force gpt label.
[22:57] <_max_> i tried booting with the normal installer, entering console, changing to gpt using parted, creating partitions using the gui, and its still gpt all the way until i click [install]
[22:57] <_max_> then it changes it back to friggin msdos, and my remaining 4tb are useless
[22:58] <secretlondon> _max_, then report it, the bugtracker is launchpad
[22:59] <_max_> okey.
[23:09] <mrooney> Is there a page describing how to use milestones?
[23:10] <mrooney> ie, when it is appropriate to set them?
[23:16] <bdmurray> mrooney: this late in the release cycle we are very conservative with them
[23:19] <mrooney> bdmurray: that makes sense. Is it then true conversely that it is fair to liberally set Intrepid milestones for bugs that appear as if they should be addressed by then?
[23:20] <mrooney> I was just wondering if there is a page that explains what sorts of bugs are candidates for milestones and then as you addressed when to mark it as such
[23:21] <bdmurray> Milestones are useful for the release manager and the release team and as I understand it they are drafting some guidelines.  However, it might be a wee bit. ;)
[23:23] <mrooney> ahh okay, so I should stay away from them for now?
[23:24] <mrooney> and not just for now as in Hardy but, in general
[23:27] <bdmurray> That sounds safest for now, the list is rather cluttered
[23:33] <SnakeArt> Hi. I think that there could be a bug in kernel 2.6.22-14-generic which makes unable to create wacom device in /dev/input/ . Is there any way to solve that problem?
[23:37] <secretlondon> SnakeArt, we can't take support requests here (they belong on #ubuntu+1). if you think there is a bug please report it on launchpad
[23:40] <SnakeArt> secretlondon: I see, but this channel is my last hope. I need to configure wacom bamboo one on gutsy, but required wacom file in /dev/input/ is missing. If You know anything about that problem, give me a note where to look for it.,please.
[23:40] <secretlondon> oh this is gutsy?>
[23:41] <secretlondon> we really can't do support here, this is where we do bug triaging. launchpad answers may be a good place though
[23:42] <SnakeArt> secretlondon: Yes, 2.6.22-14-generic on amd64. I try with launchpad.
[23:42] <bdmurray> SnakeArt: The people in ubuntu-x might have more information.  It sounds familiar.
[23:42] <SnakeArt> bdmurray: Thank you. I will take a look there,too.
[23:43] <bdmurray> maybe one of these
[23:43] <bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bugs?field.searchtext=wacom&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
[23:45] <SnakeArt> bdmurray: Thanks again. I will no longer bother You. I'll check your link.
[23:45] <SnakeArt> CU all.
[23:49] <bdmurray> secretlondon: Do you think providing some support is okay here or has it caused problems in the past?


[15:47] <sej> hmm
[15:47] <sej> so all the talks happen in slack now?
[15:47] <sej> or is that only for devs?
[17:57] <jbicha> no, anyone can join slack
[17:57] <jbicha> this channel is still used too