[00:25] <ubports_bot> Project daily-hammerhead build #296: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-hammerhead/296/
[00:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #890: SUCCESS in 1 min 44 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/890/
 (Photo, 635x41) https://irc.ubports.com/YtIo1zau/file_257.jpg This is probably my biggest gripe while setting up Sphinx.
 @UniversalSuperBox, oh god... the animations are killing me
 "Google Play Protect" but do it protect me from google's spying??
 Nooop
 You just havê to eat an oreo
 we've removed more features from the core Android libraries and pushed them into Google Play Services. So now if you want to have a full Android experience without Googly bits... heh. Good luck.
 @rubencarneiro, eat an oreo while google eats your data
 @UniversalSuperBox, ffs, #52424 reason to use Ubuntu touch
 The features were never in the core API, no need to remove them?
 @UniversalSuperBox, google wants to close source them
 aka, android gets more closed
 I hate Google
 Se really need supergroups on telegrama ubuntu
 @kz6fittycent, you could probably find a few friends in here...
 Lol
 @UniversalSuperBox, Yup, that shit keeps happening. At least custom ROMs give us a bit of a fighting chance, together with the work on https://microg.org/
[04:27] <ubports_bot> Project vivid-rootfs-armhf build #102: SUCCESS in 1.3 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/vivid-rootfs-armhf/102/
[04:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #891: SUCCESS in 0.43 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/891/
[04:52] <quick-nick> i'm trying to get launcher to open up the terminal and run my shell script. i've followed this https://askubuntu.com/questions/625652/ubuntu-touch-how-to-create-a-launcher-to-start-a-shell-script and the launcher shows up in apps list but doesn't activate terminal nor script.
[04:53] <quick-nick> script runs properly from terminal
[04:53] <quick-nick> similar desktop launcher works fine on a ubuntu mate install.
[04:55] <quick-nick> i've tried with and without aa-exec. is app armor an issue when trying to run terminal+script from launcher or is that old info. script is stored in /home/phablet/Downloads, btw
 Phew, no idea, sorry
[07:51] <tgBot> <demokrit atomos> @quick-nick, can you post your .desktop file or open a new topic in the forum at https://forums.ubports.com/category/37/support with additional info?
[08:23] <ubports_bot> Project daily-fp2 build #315: SUCCESS in 13 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-fp2/315/
[08:24] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #892: SUCCESS in 1 min 13 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/892/
[09:14] <tgBot> Andreas Zautner was added by: Andreas Zautner
 Welcome Andreas !
 @rubencarneiro, We are moving forward. Got new generated API to work yesterday. Now starting to increment API version until supergroups are there ;)
 @UniversalSuperBox, No, dont know what happened. Did you put it back?
 @Flohack, Seems like hes name is Víctor González Troncoso … This Víctor: … https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg18539.html … And this one … https://es.linkedin.com/in/v%C3%ADctor-gonz%C3%A1lez-troncoso-5376b8ba … Let's see if I can find G+
 looks like isn't related with canonical or bq rightnow
 @cibersheep, Ok thx
 @Flohack, Forget about linkdspamd. … https://launchpad.net/~victor-gonzalez-0
[10:23] <tgBot> <demokrit atomos> @Openstore_devs: could you perhaps help me? I'm trying to build the Openstore App on Ubuntu 16.04 x64 using $ qmake openstore.pro, however it exits with the warning "Unable to find file for inclusion ubuntu-click" where do i get ubunttu-click from?
[10:36] <tgBot> C_Chat was added by: C_Chat
 Welcome :)
 😊 Hello everybody.
 Hi
 @Flohack, Yes
 @UniversalSuperBox, No
 Forgot what that message was about
 I don't have permission to put that back
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/1eMjoZQH/file_258.mp4
 should i enable it again? or should it be tracked in the github.comubports/ubports-touch?
 I enabled it again. 9 tickets still inside
[11:54] <tgBot> <Andreas Zautner> @matv1, Hi everybody.
 I have been having weird automatic actions on my N5. Have to say way ended up installing a bunch of apps and suspect it could be to do with a sensor reading app. Anyone else experience this
 wait what?
 chers
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project daily-mako build #90: SUCCESS in 12 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-mako/90/
[12:56] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #893: SUCCESS in 51 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/893/
[13:06] <tgBot> Sascha_2 was added by: Sascha_2
 @Sascha_2, welcomed
 Wow! >650 people interested in our future orientated mobile OS 👍
 👍
 👍
 That makes me proud to be a patron and in using UBports since over 2 month as daily drive without major unconveniences 😊😊
 @bastos777, incorrect.  There are countless 10's of thousands.   They just don't know we exist yet.
 @bastos777, *hides her M10 because she ended up flashing Android on it* 🤐
 💜🎀 Sylvia will we see you at ubucon.paris ?
 (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/HlEDVv0D/file_259.jpg I don't know if this is worth travelling for ;)
 Nah, just messing with you. It sounds neat I guess, even though I don't even use Ubuntu, but Paris sounds expensive >.<
[14:41] <tgBot> stkw0 was added by: stkw0
 Ah ! Let me know if you change your mind, will be a pleasure to meet you again :) … PS: you cak submit a lightning talk on plex if you wish to come finally :)
 >plex
 Wow rude lol
 But sure, I will if I do
 Woups, i peant plext :)
 :P
 Sorry, i got robbed my pro5/ubuntu and tempory have an android based rom here, and i can't handle the typing anymore, i've lost all my android habits after years with ubuntu :O
 Let me blame someone that is not me :D
 thief?
 @arudy, O.o Someone stole an Ubuntu Phone?
 Yep :( … Pro5 white/silver is a beautifull device
 @neothethird, They didn't knew it ran Ubuntu obviously, or they would've left it alone because it is worthless ;(
 very
 @Lorxu, Ahah you!
 @arudy, Oh, that sucks... super difficult to find.
 Butbi hope the thiefs doesnt know about mdt!
 Anyway, sorry your stuff got stolen :(
 @arudy, Probably black magic to them
 Thanks
 (Sticker, 400x512) https://irc.ubports.com/Ay8pV7Lv/766109938110955617.webp
 @Lorxu, i'm positive they stole it *because* it ran ubuntu. Some rogue foss enthusiast
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/xkS5150Z/454955289980960945.webp
 lol
[17:47] <tgBot> harishsays was added by: harishsays
 Welcome :)
 https://dekkoproject.org/2017/08/21/progress-update … Forgot to drop this here yesterday... for anyone interested 😊
 Awesome news! Keep up the good work, i'm really looking forward to soon be using dekko again! Thank you so much!
 @DanChapman, Great. I'm willing to help translating it 🌐
 @DanChapman, If you want, we can also integrate it into translate.ubports.com, that way you can take full advantage of the community translators
 Oh! now that certainly would be handy 😊
 Would be good to keep alot of apps translations in the same place
 It's maintained by @Flohack. he's currently running around at the gamescom, so i'm not sure how soon he can do it
 but in general it shouldn't be a problem
 @DanChapman, yeah
 He's back monday  i think. I'll ping him in PM to put it on his radar for when he get's back 👍
 also, that way you can save yourself the effort of all the maintenance and completely focus on dekko
 @DanChapman, yep 👍
 yeah will save me some headaches that's for sure.
 Thanks!
 Haha, sure, thank @Flohack :D
 @DanChapman, Thank you for good news, use ubports on pro5 as daily driver, for me dekko is an essential app
 😉
 I do love Dekko :D
 @PhoenixLandPirate, 👍
 @DanChapman, Uahuuu good job
 Deko foreverrrrrr😁😁😁
 Dekko 👍👍👍👍👍
 Great news! Is integration with system notification on the map as well? If not with a daemon of sorts, then at least when dekko is running?
 (I know this ties in with the whole grand global notification conundrum. Should I keep ignoring that gorilla in the room?🙈)
 @Mohan2401, Hi Mohan.. Have you tried helium for ur redmi.. If yes let me  know the status..? Bcoz I too working on it..
 @YougoChats, Yes system notifications is on the map, but not until i've got a working click and the basics are functional. Now it will be possible to get notifications if you leave dekko running in the background as I just need to switch libnotify for a dbus call to make that work on the phones. So that's not really an issue.  … But the ideal solution will be to get system notifications working or to have dekko's messaging server running as a dae
[19:41] <tgBot> (my personal preference), much like how the owncloud sync app works.
[19:54] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @neothethird, 😝😝 be careful.  And before you know your device might be gone.
 @DanChapman, Yes daemon, no background
 @DanChapman, Sure that the battery consumption will be lower.
 It certainly would and memory usage would be much lower aswell. As you could close Dekko and still get "real time" notifications. Dekko's message server uses very little resources.
 @DanChapman, 👏🏼👏🏼
 @DanChapman, "Especially as the current toolkit’s life expectancy is still uncertain"  … What do you mean with this? And what's the current toolkit?
 the ubuntu-ui-toolkit. It's currently not maintained as such and afaik the plan is to move to using QtQuick Controls with Qt 5.9 and provide a suru style. But that wouldn't be a drop in replacement.
 @DanChapman, It'll be removed from Ubuntu soon
 yeah i've seen that on lp. Blocking Qt 5.9 landing in the archive or something
 @DanChapman, Thank you for your work on Derek. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
 hahaha! that really needs fixing in the OSK predicitions. The amount of bug reports and email i get calling Dekko "Derek" is amazing 😂
 @DanChapman, Just FYI: We are already doing some work to port it to Qt 5.9 (I have already backported it to ubuntu 16.04 with Qt 5.9 and someone else is working in 17.10).  … https://github.com/yunit-io/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/issues/1
 I'm not sure however what you mean "he plan is to move to using QtQuick Controls with Qt 5.9". You mean to completely drop the ui toolkit and port everything else to QtQuick controls? Is someone working on it?
 @Jakob, Same with me on the fp2. Thanks @DanChapman. Traveling a lot and it is essential to have dekko for my business needs.
 @jsalatas, you missed the "afaik" part in your quote 😊 I maybe wrong on that. There's been no official decision as far as i have seen either way. Which leaves me sceptical about the future of the ubuntu-ui-toolkit. Yes it would work on Qt5.9 but is anyone actually going to maintain and improve it? or is it just wasted effort where a suru QQC2 style would be far more maintainable than the 100 odd custom components you get now with the uitk.
 @DanChapman, Obviously the yunit project should keep maintaining it and all the rest stack that's not maintained by canonical any more. at least we have to maintain it until there is an alternative
[21:02] <ubports_bot> Project daily-bacon build #246: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-bacon/246/
[21:03] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #894: SUCCESS in 1 min 4 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/894/
 @jsalatas, We've got some people in our forum looking at replacing it. The only reason to keep the uitk going after that's done would be for backwards compatibility
 We obviously can't just shoot it in the head, we have 1000+ applications that use it...
 @neothethird, That's exactly my concern: that in our effort to completely drop it we would end up breaking all existing apps. :\
 yeah, we can't do that
 but we can of course investigate ways of creating a smooth transition
 @neothethird, I guess we could use the work done by @sverzegnassi and just advise against using uitk in preference of QQ2
 But I guess it would take several years to migrate
 Didn't we say that current apps would be broken in 16.04 in any case, unless we plan to use some container for 'vivid' apps?
 @sverzegnassi, Broken? Why?
 @jsalatas, Yep, mitya57 in Ubuntu
 It's blocking the Qt 5.9 transition in the archive
 Either someone from Yunit should volunteer to port the packages and the toolkit itself, or it goes bye bye
 @jsalatas, https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/programming-compilers/815647-gcc-5-is-causing-headaches-for-ubuntu-touch-developers
 @sverzegnassi, depending on who "we" is, probably not
 but it might make sense to do it that way
 @neothethird, I'm sure we mentioned it several times in the dev group :)
 Anyway, we could provide both UITK1 and QQC2 in future images. Still Devs could just re-build apps without changing code
 @sverzegnassi, I need to see it in full detail (I can't do it now as I'm at work) but from a first glimpse seems that it is just a binary compatibility issue which can be fixed with a simple recompile. Right?
 Which is of course completely different than rewriting every QML app to use on QQ2 :\
 @sverzegnassi, best would be to start the transition in ubuntu touch 15.04 already, that way we could make it as smooth as possible. we'll have to maintain that for a while anyways
 @jsalatas, Sure, and we'd need to check how many apps would have such problem at first. It might be a bigger problem if not so many Devs would actually recompile their apps, but this is another story
 @neothethird, That means that you need to backport qt 5.7.1 or greater to 15.04. Right?
 @jsalatas, was just dreaming there, but yes, probably
 @sverzegnassi, If some dev don't recompile his apps and does not plan to do so, that would simply mean that these particular apps are currently unmaintained.
 one step at a time
 BTW, since we are discussing it, @tsimonq2 brought to my attention yesterday some CVE that we probably should handle before moving to 16.04 … http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/android.html
 @jsalatas, We've just run through this with the recent Ubuntu Store -> OpenStore transition, and we've likely missed some relevant app (not many though). … My fear is about losing some other app that might still be useful
 By the way, who's going to Paris at UbuCon? It might be the opportunity for discussing a bit about this...
 From a quick look I had, seems that most of these issues affect the android emulator.
 @sverzegnassi, me and marius, probably others
 @sverzegnassi, In either case (I assume that) these apps are currently unmaintained :\
 @jsalatas, Yes, but they are currently working now with the vivid images. I can think of Beru (eBook reader), which is still used today even if unmaintained... We would need to check which apps we're going to miss and maintain them ourselves (or find another maintainer)
 @jsalatas, I'd just like to note that src:android has the most open CVEs out of any community-supported package in all of Ubuntu at this point in time.
 I want the number of open CVEs against community packages to be greatly reduced. That'll put a dent in it.
 @neothethird, Great, looking forward for meeting you there!
 @tsimonq2, If they affect only the android emulator I guess we can live some time with these. The problem is if some of these issues affect the actual images (maybe through halium or something) :\
 @jsalatas, But they should be fixed anyways
 @tsimonq2, Eventually yes! Actually my problem here is that I haven't touched the android emulator part yet
 @sverzegnassi, True, that is a problem, but there's not much to do about it. It's not really an excuse for not moving to a considerably better solution. On the bright side, since most of them are open source, they can be picked back up by others. If we manage to deliver a usable system and a welcoming community, some app devs will come back and new ones will join, i'm sure!
 @jsalatas, How experienced are you with Debian-based packaging and Quilt packages?
 @sverzegnassi, yeah, it's going to be cool! You're also talking, aren't you?
 @tsimonq2, That shouldn't be an issue
 @jsalatas, Ok, I just have no idea what your background is, I don't know if you'd like some help with the packaging or if you know what you're doing
 @sverzegnassi, I can vouch for the fact that Beru is still used - I uise it frequently. There are a few anoyances (mostly minor) but I'd certainly miss it if it became unusable.
 At the risk of looking like an idiot... What is the `android` package
 Launchpad really isn't helpful
 Last time the source was updated was in 2013
 good times
 @tsimonq2, Makes sense ;) … My issue here that I need to spend sometime with the android emulator to figure out how it works and what needs to be done. My instinct says that I just need to pick some patches from the android upstream, but that's just an conjecture
 @jsalatas ack
 @UniversalSuperBox, seems that it is android emulator
 @tsimonq2, Looks like they were fixed in vivid? What's going on there?
 @UniversalSuperBox, hm?
 The bugs
 http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/android.html ?
 Or is that because Vivid is unsupported
 ye
 @UniversalSuperBox, You can see here the binary packages affected by these CVEs  … https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/android
 @jsalatas, mmkay. So here's the situation: The ubuntu-emulator* hasn't worked for a while. It also ships with something like OTA-6
 And the Android package... "The Android portion of Ubuntu Touch images"...
[21:58] <tgBot> Jeremy T was added by: Jeremy T
 @mariogrip can you explain?
 Hi Jeremy
[22:00] <tgBot> <Jeremy T> Hi Dalton, All
 \o
 @jsalatas If at minimum you could go through and triage the ones marked as "needs-triage" (just get me a pastebin or something and I can talk with the security team), that would be great
 @tsimonq2, Can't you see we're discussing these packages here? :P
 @jsalatas, The binaries for Android is not build with debs, they are build using the default android build system (ninja 7.1). Since android in our case runs in a lxc we are not exposed "as much" as android is to this CVE, these will most lightly be fixed upstream, but since we use 5.1 the development has stopped for this target, but when we move to 7.1 we will follow android's developent, that wil result in us getting the CVE fixed
 @tsimonq2 Will try to do so.
 @jsalatas, Ok :)
 @mariogrip, So... is the package needed at all anymore? It's in the multiverse.
 take an example in https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2017/CVE-2017-0663.html libxml2 is an android external comp, and that wont in any way be used in ubuntu userspace, so this will only be used by android internals
 @mariogrip, The debs seems that are related with the emulator (I'll try to handle this). You just neet make sure that in your images these CVEs are handled (not related to the android package and the emulator).
 @UniversalSuperBox, If you guys don't need it, I'd highly suggest filing a removal bug (use `reverse-depends` to figure out if any reverse dependencies need to be kept, and file a bug against it subscribing the Desktop Team and the Ubuntu Archive Admins saying you'd like it removed)
 It's a bit of a nightmare
 I can try to go through and triage but no guarantees
 @UniversalSuperBox, Again: this is the android emulator. I guess app developers may need this for testing/debugging.
 @jsalatas, CVEs are the least of the emulator's problems... :/
 OK. But your answer doesn't actually help here. :(
 If we're keeping it around, I'd posture that it'd make the most sense to use the upstream emulator provided by Google and build images for it like any other phone.
 @UniversalSuperBox, Not possible for stable releases
 @tsimonq2, Not distributed in the universe
 @jsalatas, this is something that did not get handled by canonical for a reason, it's not a security problem in our case since first of all android runs in a lxc and all running as root, and secondly non of them are exposed and used by ubuntu userspace, they are running in bionic that makes it imposseble to run anything with it without hooking it in to libhybris
 @UniversalSuperBox, Doesn't matter. Main, Restricted, Universe, and Multiverse all follow the same policy.
 So the situation is as follows: android emulator suffers from some security issues. Should I (we/whatever) try to address these issues or should we completely drop it and never use it again?
 @jsalatas, Exactly my point.
 So... is the Android emulator used for actual Android images, or is it Ubuntu images?
 We'll start from the top here.
 I would guess that it is used for testing UT android apps in the desktop without the need of an actual UT phone
 @UniversalSuperBox, What he means here, is that it does not work with out current rootfs, the issue is not security, it that its not working at all
 @mariogrip, So we don't need it and we can drop it coompletely?
 @jsalatas, would be a nice thing to have, but I don't think it's what we should focus on.
 We are talking about security issues here. So we should focus on these really soon. I understand however that as this is just an emulator it isn't a high priority
 @jsalatas, But these are not Ubuntu touch security issues, these are android issues
 Which... aren't ours
 OK! Forget it! I'll handle this! You don't need to be involved :)
 And as i said, lxc and bionic cannot be touched by anything in the userspace, canonical didn't fix these for a good reason, it's not effecting us
 @mariogrip, Anything in Universe is untouched by the Canonical security team
 So no...
 @neothethird, Yep, Michal and I will give a presentation about OpenStore during one of the lightning talks
 Nice, i will definitely check that out!
 Anyway, back to square 1 since we've hit the weeds. … There's a source package called `android` with no reverse dependencies. It's not maintained by Canonical or UBports or Yunit, and none of these projects depend on it.
 @UniversalSuperBox, I have just decided that yunit will maintain it :)
 @tsimonq2, well that's for deb packages.... im thinking about the android HAL
 @sverzegnassi, Awesome! expect me there to watch :D


[17:37] <Wumpus42> question about /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg. How does One determine into which "section" (cloud_init_modules, cloud_config_modules or cloud_final_modules) to put a module? I wanted to try out the resolv-conf module, but it wasn't listed in the default /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg created by the yum install of cloud-init.
[17:40] <Wumpus42> I tried it in cloud_config_modules:, then just before final-message in cloud_final_modules, which seemed to work. Is the intent that you can put any of the modules in any of the sections? Or are they intended to be part of just a particular section?
[17:40] <Wumpus42> Also: Is order important? Does where you put the module in the .cfg file affect when it's "run"?
[17:41] <Wumpus42> over :)
[17:45] <Wumpus42> Umm... another also: The example at http://cloudinit.readthedocs.org/en/latest/topics/examples.html#configure-an-instances-resolv-conf seems to be wrong (for 0.7.5 anyway). It should be "manage_resolv_conf: true" not "manage-resolv-conf: true"
[18:36] <smoser> Wumpus42, order is important.
[18:37] <smoser> and some modules wont mnatter where you put them, but others would need to be run sooner or later.
[18:37] <smoser> Wumpus42, you're probably right about that dock.
[18:37] <smoser> :-(
[19:06] <Wumpus42> but they do get "run" in the order in which they are in their section?
[19:07] <Wumpus42> thanks for the feedback. is the doc error a bug report? I didn't see anything on the page itself that lent itself to feedback


[01:21] <RAOF> Urgh.  Steaming is not kind to slightly-less-than-fresh milk.
[04:29] <RAOF> Huh.  Thunder.
[05:06] <RAOF> Crazy weather!    Sweet.  I can have both a non-crashy system *and* have sbuild work!
[08:00] <pitti> RAOF: yes, it's -rc6
[08:00] <pitti> RAOF: I grabbed it from NEW
[08:01] <pitti> RAOF: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.2.0-6.12/+build/3021232
[08:01] <pitti> still need to wait for the doorstopper arches to finish building, then NEWing, l-meta, etc. until everyone gets it
[08:02] <RAOF> Yeeehaw!
[08:20] <GunnarHj> pitti: Good morning, Martin!
[08:20] <pitti> hello GunnarHj, how are you?
[08:20] <GunnarHj> pitti: Fine, thanks. Hope you are as well.
[08:21] <GunnarHj> pitti: Can you please take a look at bug 905429? It's a regression from the pygobject upgrade last Friday.
[08:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 905429 in python2.7 "gnome-language-selector crashed with ValueError in _build_localename(): too many values to unpack" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905429
[08:21] <pitti> I am
[08:21] <pitti> GunnarHj: yes, already on my list for today
[08:21] <pitti> it's my last official day, need to clean up my list :)
[08:21] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, great.
[08:22] <GunnarHj> pitti: Does it include the a-s and l-s MPs? :)
[08:22] <pitti> less urgent than above crash, but in general, everything which is sitting in my ubuntu mailbox :0
[08:22] <pitti> at least it seems this morning we didn't get any major iso build breakage or other nasty bug
[08:22] <pitti> so no firefighting to do this morning
[08:22] <GunnarHj> pitti: Sounds promising. :)
[08:23] <pitti> last week was full of that
[08:24] <mainerror> So that is what you do to make my early Precise journey that pleasant?
[08:25] <pitti> basically, watch like a hawk for problems, and fix them :)
[08:25] <pitti> and since we have a dedicated team for this, this actually works
[08:26] <pitti> supported by daily automatic testing in https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/
[08:26] <pitti> (bad example today, the server tests are broken, but the server ISOs themselves should be good)
[08:26] <pitti> and a general mindset of developers to not break stuff so hard
[08:27] <mainerror> Yea I was listening to the stream for that session.
[08:28] <RAOF> pitti: Do you know what I need to do to turn a PPA into something that we can copy into the archive?
[08:28] <pitti> RAOF: hm, kindly ask the launchpad guys to give you one of these "blessed" nonvirtualized PPAs?
[08:28] <RAOF> Ok.  I think we may have done that.
[08:29] <mainerror> I should totally get cracking with learning how to package. Sounds like something that should be fun.
[08:30] <pitti> mainerror: you'll find a lot of agreement in this channel :)
[08:30] <RAOF> I'll finish the rest of the world-building, then scream at someone that the world *still* breaks when the gesture extension is not available, then prepare to copy to the archive :)
[08:44] <pitti> GunnarHj: did you already happen to send a bug to python upstream? if not, I can do it now
[08:45] <pitti> it's not a problem in python3, but ought to be fixed in python2.7 indeed
[08:48] <pitti> GunnarHj: nevermind, known already -- http://bugs.python.org/issue3067
[08:48] <pitti> so it seems setlocale is not meant to work with unicode in py2.7
[09:00] <rodrigo_> morning
[09:00] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[09:02] <rodrigo_> hi pitti, I'm fine and you?
[09:02] <pitti> rodrigo_: quite fine, thanks! trying to mop up everything outstanding on my last official day today :)
[09:03] <pitti> rodrigo_: how are you? looking forward to the holidays?
[09:03] <rodrigo_> pitti: last official day?
[09:03] <rodrigo_> ah, before vacation?
[09:03] <pitti> rodrigo_: yes
[09:03] <rodrigo_> ah ok
[09:04] <pitti> "official" since I figure I'll need to do a few things here and there until Wednesday, but then I'll disappear
[09:04] <rodrigo_> going anywhere, or just staying at home relaxing? :D
[09:06] <pitti> rodrigo_: no, we'll go to Dresden again to spend the holidays with our families and friends
[09:07] <pitti> all of my friends will also come to Dresden (many are living in different cities or even countries these days), so looking forward to that
[09:15] <GunnarHj> pitti: Saw your comments on the python issue. Only fixing it in l-s  means that locale.setlocale() keeps being broken in Ubuntu, doesn't it?
[09:17] <pitti> GunnarHj: right; but it's always been like that
[09:18] <GunnarHj> pitti: Yes, but the news is that type 'str' strings now are converted to type 'unicode'.
[09:20] <GunnarHj> In gi/overrides/Gtk.py
[09:21] <pitti> so that would happen if you stuff e. g. the contents of an input field right into setlocale() without conversion
[09:21] <pitti> indeed it would be better to fix setlocale(), but seems upstream already rejected that
[09:21] <pitti> and at some point we'll use python3 anyway
[09:22] <pitti> so I guess the committed workaround will do for now
[09:22] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, you are the one with a helicopter perspective on it. :)
[09:23] <pitti> well, it's more like the pragmatic perspective :)
[09:23] <pitti> GunnarHj: I have an outstanding MP for l-s which I want to take a look at, then I'll upload
[09:45] <pitti> rodrigo_: do you know if g-settings-daemon starts syndaemon?
[09:46] <pitti> rodrigo_: I'm trying to understand bug 868400, apparently we sometimes get two syndaemons running
[09:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 868400 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Synaptics touchpad stops working" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868400
[09:47] <rodrigo_> pitti: yes, it does
[09:48] <pitti> rodrigo_: hm, could that happen if g-s-d spawns syndaemon, then crashes, then restarts, and starts another syndaemon?
[09:48] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:48] <rodrigo_> that might be the cause indeed
[09:48] <pitti> syndaemon_spawned is only valid while g-s-d is running
[09:48] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:49] <pitti> So there is the conflict: two syndaemon instances, one from lightdm and one from logged in user.
[09:49] <pitti> ooh
[09:49] <pitti> or that
[09:49] <rodrigo_> hmm, lightdm runs it?
[09:49] <pitti> but comment 69 has two syndaemons from the user
[09:50] <rodrigo_> then it might be the g-s-d-crashing-and-restarting thing
[09:50] <pitti> and comment 81 is the one with one from lightdm and one from user
[09:50] <rodrigo_> hmm
[09:52] <pitti> rodrigo_: if g-s-d respawns, could it even use the old syndaemon?
[09:52] <pitti> or does it need to know its pid and some fd to it?
[09:54] <rodrigo_> it needs to know the pid
[09:54] <rodrigo_> let me double check
[09:55] <rodrigo_> yes, it keeps track of the pid
[09:55] <pitti> rodrigo_: but only for internal housekeeping
[09:55] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:55] <pitti> rodrigo_: not for actually communicating with it
[09:56] <pitti> rodrigo_: once syndaemon is started, does it work completely on its own or does it need to be controlled from outside/g-s-d?
[09:56] <rodrigo_> it works on its own
[09:56] <pitti> in the former case, it could just call pidof instead of manager->priv->syndaemon_spawned
[09:56] <rodrigo_> hmm, just saw it doesn't kill the pid on exit, although not sure it should
[09:56] <rodrigo_> yes, it could do that, yes
[09:57] <pitti> then if pidof returns true, it coudl just grab that pid
[09:57] <rodrigo_> yeah
[09:57] <pitti> so that it can kill it if the user disables the function
[09:57] <rodrigo_> right, that should be the best way
[09:57] <rodrigo_> syndaemon needs to not run if the feature is disabled
[09:57] <pitti> right
[09:58] <pitti> rodrigo_: I updated the bug accordingly; I gave the lightdm task to robert (I think we should just disable syndaemon completely there via gsettings)
[09:58] <pitti> rodrigo_: I guess you won't have time any more to work on this, though?
[09:59] <rodrigo_> pitti: I'm almost done with the install languages, so once I'm done, if there's time I can work on it
[09:59] <rodrigo_> assign the bug to me for now, if you want
[09:59] <rodrigo_> if no time, I'll assign it back
[09:59] <pitti> rodrigo_: ok, will do; thanks!
[10:00] <rodrigo_> although this is an upstream thing, so I can fix it next week also
[10:00] <pitti> rodrigo_: oh, nice! g-c-c language selector is working now?
[10:00] <rodrigo_> almost
[10:00] <rodrigo_> a few details missing still though
[10:00] <rodrigo_> but almost there :)
[10:00] <pitti> cool!
[10:01] <pitti> rodrigo_: I guess we are still missing the aptdaemon part for returning the set of packages to install?
[10:01] <pitti> what-provides('locale', 'es') or something
[10:01] <rodrigo_> I have a branch with that
[10:02] <rodrigo_> so all should be done tomorrow, or Wed I hope
[10:02] <pitti> oh, already? I had expected to work on this in January, after my stable+1 team shift
[10:02] <pitti> great!
[10:02] <pitti> rodrigo_: are you using l-s' pkg_depends file for this?
[10:03] <pitti> or just call check-language-support?
[10:03] <rodrigo_> yes, needed a backend to test, so aptdaemon was the best fit for now
[10:03] <rodrigo_> just calls check-lang-support
[10:03] <rodrigo_> the missing thing would be to move the script to aptdaemon, right?
[10:03] <pitti> rodrigo_: ah, good; so I can just change that to use the pkg_depends file in January without disrupting anything else
[10:03] <rodrigo_> yeah
[10:03] <pitti> yay for having encapsulation behidn a d-bus api
[10:03] <rodrigo_> :)
[10:04] <pitti> rodrigo_: I'll throw the script away (or just change it to call the d-bus api)
[10:04] <pitti> rodrigo_: in aptdaemon it's much cheaper to figure this out by re-using an existing apt.Cache() instance
[10:04] <rodrigo_> yes
[11:08] <Sweetshark> Bonjours toujours!
[11:08] <Sweetshark> -s
[11:08] <pitti> Sweetshark: argh, noo! the French mafia brainwashed you already?
[11:09] <Sweetshark> pitti: I am just infiltrating them!
[11:09] <Sweetshark> pitti: dont blow my cover.
[11:10]  * Sweetshark has LibreOffice (Libre in the name was also an success of the french mafia) 3.5 beta0 completing ./debian/rules build.
[11:10] <Sweetshark> (on precise)
[11:11] <Sweetshark> but there is still MIR galore ahead (I just switched to --with-system-foo for the stuff we are missing for now)
[11:12] <Sweetshark> ahem
[11:12] <Sweetshark> --without-system-foo
[11:12] <pitti> ah, good; that should hopefully greatly reduce the MIRs?
[11:16] <Sweetshark> pitti: well, I can do a lot more --without-system-foo stuff, that would make my life a lot easier (however the LO package bigger and if there is a security update in the external libs that would suck) ...
[11:17] <pitti> right
[11:17] <pitti> Sweetshark: well, the size will increase either way, as these new external libraries would need to get added to the CD, too
[11:18] <pitti> but external libs are still better for security updates, of course
[11:18] <Sweetshark> pitti: however, it seems some stuff that _rene_ is using isnt even published at debian (libcmis, libtextextcat-dev), so IMHO I would just go with --without-system-foo for those for now.
[11:18] <pitti> Sweetshark: we still have -4MB space left on the CDs, so that's how much they can grow :)
[11:18] <pitti> (i. e. we are already oversized)
[11:20] <Sweetshark> pitti: and I dont think a lot of other apps reusing these libs as of now. If they would we would have them duplicated (once in LO, once system-wide), which really would waste a lot of space.
[11:20] <Sweetshark> (possibly also CD-space)
[11:21] <pitti> Sweetshark: right, for stuff that isn't prone to security vulns, the bundled stuff will do fine for now
[12:57]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[14:39] <Laney> stgraber just created desktop-extra
[14:39] <Laney> have at it :-)
[16:08] <mterry> cyphermox, I'm looking at the 'iw' MIR
[16:08] <mterry> cyphermox, there are some seemingly important bugs in LP.  Is the package working?
[16:10] <cyphermox> it was :)
[16:10] <cyphermox> let me check those bugs again, IIRC it's all stuff that needs to be closed or something
[16:11] <cyphermox> as far as I'm concerned, it works, I can see scan results, etc.
[16:48] <rodrigo_> out for a bit, bbl
[16:52] <jbicha> Laney: thanks
[16:52] <Laney> np
[16:52] <Laney> we can't 'drop' stuff from desktop like that since it's autogenerated
[16:52] <Laney> the seeds need to be fixed
[16:53] <Laney> afaik anyway
[16:53] <Laney> maybe pitti knows more
[16:54] <pitti> Laney: what is "like that"?
[16:54]  * pitti is missing jbicha's questino apparently
[16:54] <jbicha> I think gnome-panel and gnome-applets should be moved from desktop to desktop-extra
[16:55] <pitti> that should be fine, they are in universe now
[16:55] <pitti> edubuntu-desktop-gnome still pulls them in
[16:56] <pitti> I'll verify with cjwatson in #devel
[16:56] <Laney> maybe refreshing the packagesets is a manual process?
[16:59] <jbicha> since we're going with GTK 3.4, is there a reason why I shouldn't upload gedit 3.3 to precise?
[17:02] <pitti> jbicha: as we want to stay on 3.2, I'd turn that question around
[17:02] <pitti> jbicha: i. e. "does or will it depend on anything else in 3.4 and does it improve things noticeably"?
[17:04] <jbicha> pitti: do we want to stay on 3.2? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0
[17:05] <jbicha> gedit doesn't yet depend on 3.3, but it's hard to predict what'll happen
[17:05] <pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-gnome-version
[17:05] <pitti> jbicha: so far it's: glib/gtk 3.4, gnome 3.2, consider g-control-center as we have some active work going on on that
[17:05] <pitti> (or backport the new region panel)
[17:08] <jbicha> the whole 3.2/3.4 thing is still confusing, the pad only lists a few things to keep on 3.2
[17:12] <pitti> need to run, see you tomorrow!
[17:12] <pitti> (I'm officially on vacation from tomorrow on, but need to wrap up a few things)
[17:12] <jbicha> I wonder if gnome-games will still be ok since they've been doing a lot of work on it (porting games to vala for instance)
[17:13] <pitti> jbicha: yes, we can update individual parts if they don't introduce regressions and dependencies to other 3.4 parts
[17:13] <jbicha> well I think gedit will be fine but we'll talk more later


[01:32] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 344 for the week November 18 - 24, 2013 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue344


[02:10] <Ottre> anybody filed a bug for adobe-flashplugin?
[02:10] <Ottre> http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/02/adobe-releases-unscheduled-flash-update-to-patch-critical-zero-day-threat/


[17:13] <jamespage> doko: around? I have an openjdk question about 'overlays'
[17:17] <doko> I assume that will be an IcedTea question ...
[17:39] <jamespage> doko: I think so
[17:40] <jamespage> so this relates to bug 800082
[17:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 800082 in batik "FTBFS against openjdk-6 6b23 due to internal Sun API changes." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800082
[17:40] <jamespage> I came across this when I was looking at the last couple of packages for the fop MIR
[17:41] <jamespage> both xmgraphics-commons and batik make use of internal sun API's
[17:42] <jamespage> looking at the changes in 6b23 one of the exceptions in that API is no longer a runtime exception; which breaks the builds for those two packages.
[17:42] <jamespage> doko: I wanted to understand why that change had been made (I could not trace it back through IcedTea)
[17:43] <jamespage> and discuss where to 'fix' the issue; I can patch both libraries to make then behave but wanted to talk with you first.
[17:44] <doko> hmm, strange. because it's still the 6b22 tarball afaics
[17:44] <jamespage> yeah - I found the switch in the overlay directory
[17:44] <doko> best to ask on the ML. can you track down, who made the change?
[17:46] <jamespage> thats the bit I was looking for a bit of guidance on - not that familiar either with the packaging or the project around icedtea
[17:48] <doko> the list is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:48] <doko> changeset:   2551:8720a7df46e3
[17:48] <doko> Added basic support for using JPEGCodec to encode and decode jpeg files.
[17:50] <jamespage> great - thanks for the pointers - I'll get on to it
[17:52] <doko> http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea6/rev/8720a7df46e3?revcount=120
[17:54] <doko> http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/distro-pkg-dev/2011-May/013943.html
[17:54] <doko> that's all I can find for now
[17:55] <doko> jamespage: I assume you have to subscribe to the list to post
[20:02] <dimas_> is this only to talk about developing java application on ubuntu or may i ask about something else?
[20:03] <dimas_> cause i am interest in learning to develope applications for java mobiles


[08:31] <mup> PR operator#1059 closed: chore: remove the executable bit from all the .py files <feature> <small item> <Created by jameinel> <Merged by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1059>
[08:45] <mup> PR operator#1060 opened: bug: if secret ID and label are known, only provide secret-get with ID <bug> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1060>
[09:43] <mup> PR operator#1061 opened: ci: use a trusted publisher token for publishing to PyPI <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1061>
[14:13] <mup> Issue operator#741 closed: Add SDK tutorial section on writing and running unit+integration tests <docs> <24.04> <Created by pengale> <Closed by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/741>


[15:42] <mthx|server> Whoa, ubuntu mn has a new website. When did that happen?
[15:43] <mthx|server> On a related note, I got an email prompting me to renew my ubuntun mn loco membership. Turns out that the account I used last time (2 years ago?) is not active anymore. So instead I just reapplied using my new account.
[15:44] <mthx|server> So if you want to remove my old accounts ~jazzyflute and ~mathomastech, that would probably be a good idea just to clean up the list.
[16:19] <tonyyarusso> mthx|server: Apparently almost immediately after I gave up and let the domain registration expire.  Interesting.
[16:34] <mthx|server> So who owns the domain now? There is no whois record.
[16:38] <tonyyarusso> No idea.
[16:38] <tonyyarusso> Well, there *is* a whois record, but it's masked.
[16:53] <mthx|server> Huh. It's interesting that they chose to keep all the same content on there from before, but then updated the design and added some sort of RSS feed. Wonder if a community member picked it up?
[18:09] <tonyyarusso> Not sure.  There's some weird sort-of-boilerplate content too - seems half-finished.
[19:32] <mthx|server> So, I know ubuntu-mn is relatively inactive and has only a dozen or so registered members, but is there any interest in attempting to expand or is this mostly just a pipe dream?
[19:56] <tonyyarusso> mthx|server: Speaking for myself, I'm pretty tired of trying, but if you're willing to make an effort that would be awesome.
[19:56] <tonyyarusso> I think LUGs and LoCos in general have become largely obsolete because Linux is just too darn easy for people to figure out without our help now.
[19:56] <tonyyarusso> :)
[20:47] <mthx|server> tonyyarusso: Haha, you say that like it's a bad thing :) The easy part that is. Hmm, I'll think about it. I'm still working on building up NORLUG with some degree of sucess. I'm not the best at publicity/social media, etc, so we've been growing at the rate of "word-of-mouth".
[20:48] <mthx|server> Unfortunately, I am not sure how well I would do with running ubuntu-mn since I have no direct affiliation with Canonical, though I do know a handful of canonical employees! I also don't even use Ubuntu myself.
[20:49] <tonyyarusso> Nobody involved in the group has ever had an affiliation with Canonical.
[21:04] <mthx|server> Ok, well I will think about it. I would love to see the group be more active.


[09:23] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: you could reproduce the bug with the dash contents being empty until closed again on the desktop?
[09:23] <mzanetti> yes, 100%
[09:24] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: on unity7 too or just on unity8 as a session?
[09:24] <mzanetti> just unity8
[09:24] <tsdgeos> k
[09:24] <tsdgeos> so i'll have to sort that first if i'm supposed to work on the bug :D
[09:25] <tsdgeos> first back to filters
[09:25] <mzanetti> right... strange it won't work for you
[09:25] <mzanetti> tsdgeos, but yes, sooner or later you'd need to get that sorted anyways.
[09:25] <tsdgeos> actually it's very funny
[09:25] <tsdgeos> since it throws an exception once i log in inside unity8
[09:25] <tsdgeos> so unity8 and stuff is already up
[09:26] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: honestly i'm not very keen on going to debug why mir decides to throw expcetions up
[09:26] <tsdgeos> but oh well
[09:59] <mzanetti> tsdgeos, it must be some setup issue on your machine I think
[10:00] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: i don't knwo i almost removed and reinstalled everything regarding unity8 and mir yesterdya and the same
[10:00] <tsdgeos> i am not sure it may be something lib related
[10:01] <tsdgeos> but maybe
[10:01] <mzanetti> hmm
[10:01] <tsdgeos> and the exception i get is a runtime one with unity8 running already
[10:02] <tsdgeos> one would think that it it was a lib mismatch it'd fail to start altogether
[13:19] <tsdgeos> Ç/back
[13:19] <tsdgeos> wops
[13:26] <tsdgeos> do we have any MR removing this?
[13:26] <tsdgeos> ./Stages/DesktopStage.qml:166:                onVisibleChanged: console.log("VISIBLE", model.appId, visible)
[13:26] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: ↑ ?
[13:27] <mzanetti> tsdgeos, not that I know, but there's chances ltinkl has one
[13:32] <ltinkl> tsdgeos, yup, it's gone in my new decorations branch
[13:32] <tsdgeos> k
[14:08] <mterry> ltinkl, welcome back  :)
[14:09] <mterry> ltinkl, we had the meeting yesterday, only briefly talked about oobe, but looks like mostly they want spacing changes like making text lines taller -- i.e. more spacing between and trying to wrap text lines better
[14:09] <ltinkl> mterry, I explained in the review document this is not possible to do... sigh did they read it? :)
[14:09] <mterry> ltinkl, I've updated our PPA to be a bit closer to landing-ready.  I've made it vivid+xenial.  And added a couple other packages associated with my edge intro changes
[14:10] <mterry> ltinkl, oh I talked to them
[14:10] <ltinkl> mterry, cool, thanks for that
[14:10] <mterry> ltinkl, both seem possible.  What's the problem?  Don't we have a Text.lineHeight property?
[14:10] <ltinkl> mterry, they want to alter the linespacing, which isn't possible in QML
[14:10] <mterry> ltinkl, and couldn't we have an invisible Text that we know how long the label width is, so we know where to set its wrap width?
[14:10] <mterry> ltinkl, isn't that Text.lineHeight?
[14:11] <ltinkl> mterry, hmm right... maybe, will try
[14:13] <mterry> ltinkl, they also mentioned that some account screen they didn't want was still in there
[14:13] <mterry> ltinkl, but then they mentioned that there was some newish requirement to keep the "admin password" (new name for the sudo password)
[14:14] <mterry> ltinkl, I pushed back a little on that
[14:14] <mterry> ltinkl, as you can see in the email -- tried to figure out where that was coming from.  It wasn't actually coming from security team, so I dunno why it's a requirement
[14:15] <ltinkl> mterry, yeah the account screen is still there as I was waiting for the final decision whether it's still needed or not
[14:17] <ltinkl> mterry, sent an email, let's see
[14:32] <mterry> ltinkl, oh also, I had to disable tests in my branch because your branch failed them.  At the least for old imports (non-1.3), but maybe others?
[14:32] <mterry> ltinkl, though I don't think the PPA runs the full qmltest suite
[14:33] <mterry> ltinkl, let me know when you fix that and I can take out the disable line in mine
[14:38] <ltinkl> mterry, yeah the tests are not fully in shape yet
[14:38] <mterry> ltinkl, that's fine for the qmltests (mine aren't either).  But the import-checker tests runs during build
[14:38] <mterry> ltinkl, so the PPA was ftbfs
[14:38] <mterry> ltinkl, so please fjix that at least (it was from your merge from trunk)
[14:50] <ltinkl> mterry, do you remember what was it failing at?
[14:50] <mterry> ltinkl, yeah bad imports (non-1.3 / qt5.4)
[14:51] <mterry> ltinkl, make tests should show the failure
[14:51] <ltinkl> mterry, hmm it passes here
[14:53] <mterry> ltinkl, uh I meant "make test" but if that still passes...  good?  I can remove the test-comment-out-lines
[14:53] <ltinkl> mterry, hmm that doesn't, a sec
[14:53] <mterry> k
[14:58] <ltinkl> mterry, heh, interesting failure, it chokes on "import Ubuntu.Components.Popups 1.0"
[14:58] <ltinkl> mterry, the regexp is too greedy
[15:00] <mterry> ltinkl, no, your import should be 1.3
[15:00] <ltinkl> mterry, ok, that works
[15:01] <ltinkl> mterry, I thought this component wasn't bumped
[15:03] <ltinkl> mterry, alright, pushed the fixes, make test passing
[15:03] <mterry> ltinkl, nic
[15:03] <mterry> e
[18:50] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: mzanetti: Any luck on reproducing the dual cursor on Unity 8 desktop?  bregma was just able to reproduce.
[18:50] <mzanetti> ChrisTownsend, dandrader said he couldn't. I didn't find the time to try yet
[18:50] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, no. moved on to work on something else
[18:50] <mzanetti> let me try now
[18:51] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: dandrader: Ok
[18:52] <mzanetti> dandrader, hmm... interesting...
[18:53] <mzanetti> dandrader, so I started gedit, had just one cursor. then I clicked into gedit's menu, the cursor got stuck there and from the top left the second one appeared
[18:53] <dandrader> mzanetti, oh, don't do that!
[18:53] <mzanetti> dandrader, interesting thing is that the second cursor that appears is much faster than the first
[18:53] <dandrader> mzanetti, we don't support menus yet
[18:53] <mzanetti> right
[18:53] <dandrader> mzanetti, if will cause a new surface to be created to hold that menu. unity8 should blow up
[18:53] <dandrader> mzanetti,  s/if/it
[18:54] <mzanetti> ChrisTownsend, hey, if I see gedit's window decoration, does that mean it runs in libertine?
[18:54] <ChrisTownsend> I see it when I click inside the gedit window.
[18:54] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: No, not libertine at all.
[18:54] <dandrader> mzanetti, gedit is drawing its own window decoration I think. from window manager's point of view it's a chrome-less window
[18:55] <dandrader> mzanetti, or should I say GTK
[18:55] <dandrader> mzanetti, another todo item: support "frameless" window hint or something like it
[18:56] <ChrisTownsend> Just clicking inside the gedit window will summon the second cursor.
[18:56] <mzanetti> had to reboot :D
[18:57] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, hmmmm.... so it's not jsut by running gedit, like the bug report said
[18:58] <mzanetti> just clicking inside the text editor doesn't get it for me
[18:58] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: No, I think I made a comment in the bug that entering the window will cause the second cursor to appear, but I think actually clicking in the window is what triggers it.
[18:58] <mzanetti> I can select text etc, all fine
[18:58] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: You don't have a second cursor?
[18:59] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, I think Unity8 developers are immune to this bug :)
[18:59] <mzanetti> ChrisTownsend, not unless I click a menu
[18:59] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: lol, you guys!
[18:59] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Hmm
[18:59] <mzanetti> I can repro it tho with the menu...
[18:59] <mzanetti> unity doesn't immediately blow up, it gets me the second cursor... doing some more clicks it eventually blows up then
[19:00] <ChrisTownsend> Actually, this time, just entering the gedit window brought up the 2nd cursor.
[19:09] <mzanetti> ChrisTownsend, could it be that it tries to open some tooltip or something?
[19:09] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: No, I don't think so.  I just move the regular cursor into the window and move it and then the 2nd appears.
[19:11] <mzanetti> hmpf... nope, not happening here
[19:12] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: I don't understand.:-(
[19:12] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: I also see this using Vivid+overlay.
[19:13] <mzanetti> http://i.imgur.com/HfkVqiq.jpg
[19:13] <mzanetti> I can select text with the mouse just fine
[19:14] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Hmm, that kind of looks like the original cursor provided by Mir and not the new Unity8 cursor that is larger and fuzzier.
[19:14] <mzanetti> no, it's the slow one
[19:14] <mzanetti> high-dpi screen here
[19:14] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Ah, ok:)
[19:15] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Are you using a mouse or touchpad?
[19:15] <mzanetti> ChrisTownsend, speaking of which, can we scale gedit/gtk somehow?
[19:15] <mzanetti> touchpad
[19:15] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: I'm sure it can be, but I'm not sure how.
[19:15] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Ok, I'm using touchpad as well.
[19:16] <mzanetti> I'm on v+o too, daniel is probably on x
[19:18] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Well, I'm stumped as to why you guys don't see it, but I know of at least 4 different machines that get this issue.
[19:18] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: As dandrader said, I guess you guys are immune.
[19:19] <mzanetti> ChrisTownsend, how are you running it? starting a session from lightdm? unity8-desktop-session-mir?
[19:20] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Yes, unity8-desktop-session-mir and using lightdm to login.  All packages from the archive.
[19:20] <mzanetti> same here :/
[19:24] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: Hmm, something weird.  I had my mouse over the window and was moving it slowly and didn't see the 2nd cursor.  Then as I was moving it, it showed up on the edge of the window as if it became visible all of a sudden and then stayed visible.  I wonder since you're on hi dpi if you keep moving the cursor around until the hidden cursor hits the window.
[19:28] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: dandrader: What code tells Mir to hide it's cursor?
[19:29] <ChrisTownsend> (I guess it's Mir cursor)
[19:29] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, it's in qtmir
[19:29] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: ok
[19:30] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, it's kinda workaround. Mir is buggy when its comes to cursor visibility
[19:31] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, grep for 1502200
[19:31] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, (it's the bug number associated with the issue)
[19:31] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: Ok, will do, thanks
[19:32] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, and the fix (new api for wrapping mir cursor) is also buggy
[19:32] <bregma> I'm not on a high DPI screen when I see the second cursor
[19:33] <dandrader> bregma, screen DPI should be orthogonal to this issue
[19:33] <bregma> the supernumerarary cursor looks like a hardware cursor
[19:34] <bregma> maybe GTK is turning that on directly (it likes to take control) and Unity 8 only does software cursors
[19:35] <ChrisTownsend> bregma: I do get the issue when running X apps as well like LO and FF.
[19:36] <bregma> ChrisTownsend, on Unity 8?  Don't those apps use GTK back ends where possible?
[19:37] <ChrisTownsend> bregma: I mean in a Libertine container, although I want to be clear that Libertine is not the culprit.
[19:41] <ChrisTownsend> I think screen resolution/DPI does have an effect on when the Mir cursor actually hits the gedit window.
[19:42] <ChrisTownsend> It's not the cause of the issue, only it hides the issue from occurring.
[19:43] <ChrisTownsend> Probably something in Mir that says show the cursor over these types of windows.
[19:59] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, thing is, mir has no idea of what's going on in the unity8 qml scene
[20:00] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, unity-system-compositor only knows that it's (hidden) cursor is over the unity8 surface, which takes the entire screen
[20:01] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, the hardware cursor (that little bugger that pops up) is controlled by unity-system-compositor
[20:01] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: Ok, thanks for the explanation.
[20:04] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: Hmm, doing a quick look through u-s-c code, I don't see any calls to hide()/show() methods for the cursor.  Would there be other method names that do the same thing?
[20:09] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, I don't know that code. But I would think it's all in libmir itself
[20:09] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, ie, Mir
[20:09] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: Ok
[20:10] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, it can be confusing. Because qtmir/unity8 uses libmir's server API, but it's in reality running as a nested server. It, from u-s-c perspective it's just a client application/surface
[20:11] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: Yes, very confusing:)
[20:11] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, so in the nested server code paths you have server API's calling client APIs behind the scenes to talk to unity-system-compositor
[20:12] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, and that pretty much explains why the cursor API works so badly in a nested server
[20:12] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader: Sheesh, that's kind of messed up.
[20:13] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, I mean, it makes sense. but must be hell to implement :)
[20:28] <ChrisTownsend> dandrader|afk: mzanetti: Rebuilding lightdm to disable "--enable-hardware-cursor=true" in it's call to unity-system-compositor no longer brings up the hardware cursor.  Not sure what the side effects of that is.
[20:31] <mzanetti> yeah... I guess if it always loads all the things this can quickly become too memory consuming
[20:31] <mzanetti> wrong chat :D
[20:32] <mzanetti> ChrisTownsend, interesting. so when you see both cursors, does it still work fine? it's just a visual thing?
[20:33] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: The Unity 8 cursor is the one that works, the hardware cursor does not.
[20:33] <ChrisTownsend> mzanetti: I'm going to talk to robert_ancell about removing the hack in lightdm.
[20:52] <dandrader> ChrisTownsend, interesting
[22:42] <lpotter> hello


 My problem now, is after a power cut(electricity just dies), when i next try and boot, after grub i get cpu1 not responding, cpu2 not responding, cpu3 not responding. This is the 3rd time its happened. The first time, after resetting the bios a few times and some fiddling, i sent the motherboard back and they replaced it with the same model. Everything worked, 2nd time, a bios reset d
[09:32] <tonberryE352> irc cut you off after " 2nd time, a bios reset d"
[09:35]  * sflr will bbl
[10:16] <inetpro> eish!
[10:16] <Kilos> wat nou
[10:16] <inetpro> just when I bragged about the Dell E6220 having no issues one pops up after the latest kernel update
[10:17] <Kilos> uh oh
[10:17] <inetpro> suddenly it doesn't pick up my large monitor any more and I'm back to a yucky display after a reboot
[10:18] <Kilos> you are right ...EISH
[10:18] <Kilos> whats that dell thing a lappy?
[10:19] <tumbleweed> that's a certified device, you should raise a bug report, I'm sure the certification team would be interested to know that they missed it http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/desktop/models/?query=e6220
[10:19] <inetpro> Kilos: yep
[10:19] <inetpro> thanks tumbleweed, I was hoping that you'd chime in
[10:19] <Kilos> there you go inetpro
[10:20] <tumbleweed> mention the word regression in the report
[10:20] <inetpro> ok, now I forgot how to start again
[10:20] <Kilos> next time you update it wont have the prob anymore
[10:21] <tumbleweed> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[10:21] <Kilos> haha ballie
[10:21] <inetpro> tumbleweed: tks
[10:21] <Kilos> tumbleweed, is ibid good in 12.04
[10:22] <Kilos> soon i will go 12.04
[10:22] <inetpro> tumbleweed: please explain regression for me
[10:22] <tumbleweed> Kilos: hopefully
[10:22] <tumbleweed> inetpro: it's a regression, because it was working fine until you installed a stable kernel update
[10:23] <inetpro> ahh
[10:23] <tumbleweed> those aren't supposed to break anything, any breakage is a regression, and treated fairly seriously
[10:23] <tumbleweed> regression as in "things get worse"
[10:23] <inetpro> thanks
[10:27] <inetpro> tumbleweed: what would be the specific package at fault in my case?
[10:27] <inetpro> for running ubuntu-bug against
[10:27] <tumbleweed> you said it was a kernel update?
[10:28] <tumbleweed> so the package is linux
[10:28] <inetpro> in fact I have kubuntu, do I still run ubuntu-bug?
[10:28] <tumbleweed> yes
[10:28] <inetpro> tumbleweed: cool
[10:30] <tumbleweed> as far as I knew, the QA team tested new kernels on all the machines in the QA labs before they got published. I'd assume tehy have all certified machiens in their labs
[10:31] <inetpro> eish! "Cannot connect to crash databa..."
[10:31] <inetpro> Got to run this again with http_proxy settings
[10:31] <tumbleweed> https_proxy too, probably
[10:33] <inetpro> hmm... it really doesn't like me today
[10:33] <inetpro> Application: Apport KDE (python2.7), signal: Aborted
[10:33] <inetpro> Using host libthread_db library "/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libthread_db.so.1".
[10:34] <inetpro> [Current thread is 1 (Thread 0xb7375b00 (LWP 3401))]
[10:34] <tumbleweed> looks kind of like this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/957438
[10:35] <inetpro> guess I shall have to connect directly to the net and not via proxy
[10:36] <tumbleweed> you can also try unsetting DISPLAY, before calling it, to run it in text-only mode
[10:37] <inetpro> tumbleweed: LWP tells me that it's something with the connection to the crash database
[10:37] <inetpro> I'll try unsetting DISPLAY
[10:37] <tumbleweed> not necessarily. LWP = light weight thread
[10:39] <tumbleweed> I maen light weight process, which = thread
[10:44] <inetpro> tumbleweed: unsetting DISPLAY worked like a charm
[10:44] <inetpro> busy trying to write up further info
[10:45] <inetpro> Summary: Regression of display environment on Dell Latitude E6220 after installing latest kernel
[10:45] <inetpro> tumbleweed: ^^ that ok?
[10:45] <tumbleweed> no, the summary should say exactly what's wrong
[10:47] <inetpro> hmm...
[10:48] <inetpro> well here's my what happened
[10:48] <inetpro> After installing the latest updates which included kernel updates and requiring a reboot I only get a resolution of 1024x768 on a Dell 19" Monitor when I've had much higher resolution without any problems for a long time.
[10:50] <tumbleweed> as in "Not getting native resolution on external monitor after installing kernel update"
[10:50] <tumbleweed> then give the full story in the body
[10:51] <inetpro> ok
[10:54]  * inetpro is feeling a migraine building up inside
[10:56] <Kilos> eish
[10:58] <inetpro> tumbleweed: bug 1028379
[11:00] <tumbleweed> New → Confirmed 19 seconds ago
[11:00] <tumbleweed> by a kernel team guy
[11:00] <inetpro> wow
[11:07] <inetpro> got the mail... confirmed by Brad Figg from Portland, Oregon
[11:08] <inetpro> tumbleweed: so does that mean they know about an issue there?
[11:11] <tumbleweed> actually, he runs a bot across all kernel bugs
[11:11] <tumbleweed> I didn't know that it confirmed them too, but clearly it does. Don't know what the criteria for confirming is, there
[11:15] <inetpro> hmm... now I really don't get this
[11:15] <inetpro> suddenly after a third reboot everything is back to normal
[11:15] <Kilos> be thankfull
[11:16] <inetpro> Kilos: that's not normal
[11:16] <tumbleweed> sometimes graphics cards boot in odd states
[11:16] <Kilos> tell brtad to reboot 3 times too
[11:16] <tumbleweed> try a few more times, if it doesn't happen, close the bug
[11:16] <Kilos> yo magespawn
[11:16] <tumbleweed> my MacBook boots up with crazy graphics 3 out of every 4 times
[11:16] <inetpro> but I must say I pressed ESC twice during the boot process to get rid of the splash screen
[11:16] <tumbleweed> it's certainly not linux's fault, because it's crazy in the bootloader too
[11:17] <magespawn> Hi Kilos, tumbleweed, inetpro
[11:18]  * inetpro thought of booting to the old kernel but somehow missed the grub menu
[11:18] <inetpro> heh magespawn
[11:18]  * magespawn waves hi to the lurkers in the room o/
[11:18] <Kilos> lol
[11:19] <Kilos> like yusuf
[11:19] <Kilos> was just sitting pondering if ive ever seen him chatting
[11:19] <Kilos> hey yusuf
[11:20] <magespawn> I think I have seen him once or twice.
[11:20] <Kilos> oh
[11:24] <magespawn> how would you do a clean install on a headless server?
[11:24] <Kilos> crazy nick MRpunk
[11:25] <Kilos> whats headless magespawn
[11:26] <magespawn> one with no inputs on it, so no monitor or keyboard, or mouse (lol)
[11:26] <Kilos> remotely
[11:27] <Kilos> can you see it from another pc
[11:27] <magespawn> well networked, because the machine is sitting right net to me
[11:27] <magespawn> net
[11:27] <magespawn> next
[11:27] <magespawn> i can ssh to it.
[11:28] <Kilos> so cant your main one see whats happening when you put a cd in the server
[11:28] <Kilos> like as in the boot menu of the cd
[11:28] <magespawn> no cd drive in the server. but I can use a live usb
[11:29] <Kilos> server has no cdrom but got usb ports
[11:29] <Kilos> ?
[11:29] <magespawn> yes
[11:29] <Kilos> sjoe
[11:29] <Kilos> how will you setup the server to boot from usb then
[11:30] <magespawn> I figured I would not need a cdrom. I can put one in, but I wanted to see if it was possible to do it over a network
[11:30] <Kilos> put a screen and keyboard on it
[11:30] <magespawn> that you can set in the bios as it boots but with no screen or keyboard
[11:31] <magespawn> it becomes a bit difficult
[11:31] <Kilos> well i main pc can see what should be on server screen then you should be able to see server boot to usb
[11:32] <Kilos> if
[11:32] <magespawn> ahh but once the install start you are going to lose the connection then how do you see what is going on until the install is done.
[11:32] <Kilos> as in with vnc or something
[11:32] <Kilos> i dunno you supposed to be teaching me
[11:33] <magespawn> this is not something I have done before.
[11:33] <Kilos> whats google say
[11:33] <Kilos> i go ask maaz
[11:33] <magespawn> I was being lazy
[11:34] <Kilos> http://askubuntu.com/questions/8539/clean-install-of-ubuntu-server-over-the-network
[11:35] <Kilos> http://askubuntu.com/questions/13106/how-can-i-install-ubuntu-on-a-headless-machine
[11:35] <Kilos> magespawn, ^^
[11:36] <magespawn> ty Kilos will take a gander
[11:37] <Kilos> yw
[11:37] <Kilos> hope one works
[11:37] <magespawn> I am sure one will work
[11:39] <Kilos> which one
[11:39] <Kilos> i gonna ask you how to next
[11:41] <Kilos> i hate googling but maaz does a great job only 4 or so links at a time
[11:47] <magespawn> actually looks like a release upgrade will be the easiest way to do it
[11:48] <Kilos> i think thats what fly does
[11:49] <Kilos> yo sakhi tonberryE352
[11:49] <tonberryE352> hello
[11:49] <sakhi> hey Kilos
[11:51] <Kilos> i wonder why this channel doesnt grow
[11:51] <Kilos> only at meetings we got some more
[11:51] <Kilos> Superhuman_, hows things
[11:59] <magespawn> The instructions say to put the ks.cfg file in the root of the drive and then modify the kernal boot parameters like so ks=cdrom:/path/to/ks.cfg, What would I use if I am booting from USB?
[12:00] <Kilos> sjoe
[12:00] <Kilos> inetpro, ^^
[12:01] <magespawn> maybe something like "ks=usb: /dev/sdb/ks.cfg"
[12:01] <Kilos> aw he has a migraine coming on. sorry goosie
[12:01] <Kilos> usb0
[12:01] <magespawn> I would have to make sure the machine sees the usb as a boot device
[12:02] <Kilos> first see what port the usb is
[12:02] <magespawn> you guys chatting in ##kilos?
[12:02] <Kilos> its open
[12:03] <Kilos> hes been having probs after an update and getting migraine
[12:03] <magespawn> nah is okay. just did not see anything happen here, thought I missed something.
[12:03] <Kilos> na
[12:03] <Kilos> even qp is asleep still
[12:26] <magespawn> Kilos to do alts upgrade I used the following command do-release-upgrade -d. The -d forces an upgrade, before the 12.04.1 is released.
[12:27] <Kilos> oh you not going 12.04?
[12:28] <Kilos> oh sorry
[12:28] <Kilos> 12.04.1
[12:29] <Kilos> i dont read good
[12:29] <Kilos> everyone always moans
[12:29] <magespawn> yes i am, do-release-upgrade waits until they release the .1 version
[12:29] <Kilos> aha ty
[12:29] <magespawn> makes for interesting conversation anyway
[12:29] <Kilos> but i wont do it that way, too much data
[12:30] <magespawn> true
[12:30] <Kilos> will use cds
[12:30] <Kilos> then update as and when
[12:30] <magespawn> you can use flash drives too. I find that works better than cds.
[12:31] <Kilos> not if you gotta download the iso
[12:31] <Kilos> and this pc cant boot from usb
[12:31] <Kilos> will see when got nother one going
[12:36] <Kilos> yo trixie
[12:36] <Kilos> Trixar_za,
[12:36] <Trixar_za> Hey Kilos
[13:27] <magespawn> Kilos I think you can download the mirror to an external hard drive and upgrade your machine from there.
[13:28] <magespawn> here goes the upgrade of the server
[13:28] <magespawn> apparently it will take about 53 mins to get all the software
[13:29] <Kilos> 40 gigs?
[13:30] <magespawn> no just the 380 odd needed for my upgrade
[13:30] <magespawn> mb
[13:30] <Kilos> ah thats good
[13:34] <Kilos> so is 12.04.1 out magespawn
[13:34] <magespawn> no do not think so, that is why i had to use -d
[13:35] <Kilos> i mean upgraded already
[13:35] <Kilos> i thought still a few months to go
[13:35] <Kilos> so what you upgrading from
[13:36] <magespawn> 10.04
[13:36] <Kilos> aha
[13:37] <Kilos> you lucky its so little
[13:37] <Kilos> i thought it would be about a gig
[13:37] <magespawn> did keep the system fairly up to date anyways
[13:39] <Kilos> that seems the answer then to upgrade from lts to lts
[13:40] <magespawn> i like to stick with the lts versions, less problems usually.
[13:41] <Kilos> im glad i went from 10.04 to 10.10 though. maverick has been great
[13:44] <magespawn> just reading up on password cracking
[13:45] <Kilos> but gonna give unity a good go as it seems to be the way forward
[13:45] <magespawn> it is quite nice
[13:45] <Kilos> with suse and fedora and then going unity too
[13:45] <Kilos> there are crackers in synaptic
[13:46] <Kilos> what you read and where
[13:46] <magespawn> hold on on the other pc
[13:47] <magespawn> lastbit.com/pswcalc.asp
[13:47] <magespawn> this is a calculator that shows how long it will take if you have to brute force a password based on your input
[13:48] <Kilos> on your own pc you mean not a windows thing
[13:49] <magespawn> password length 16 characters, mixed lower case, upper case and punctuation at 500,000 passwrods per second = 509 440<PHONE_NUMBER> years
[13:50] <Kilos> hahaha
[13:50] <magespawn> wireless networks or any password protected file etc
[13:51] <Kilos> aw my password is only 13 characters
[13:51] <magespawn> that windows thing does not crack the password it simple re writes the password file.
[13:51] <Kilos> ya lol
[13:51] <magespawn> mixed characters?
[13:51] <Kilos> yip
[13:51] <Squirm> lol, because I reset my bios, my time change:  offset 19904330.370724 sec
[13:52] <magespawn> yours = 194 336 069 26 years.
[13:52] <Kilos> upper case numbers 4 upper case and lower case letters 5 the numbers
[13:52] <Kilos> 4
[13:53] <magespawn> of course this does assume that you are only using brute force
[13:53] <tonberryE352> correct horse batter staple
[13:53] <tonberryE352> :P
[13:53] <tonberryE352> battery*
[13:54] <Squirm> Maaz: 19904330.370724/60
[13:54] <Maaz> Squirm:<PHONE_NUMBER>12
[13:54] <magespawn> if your password is actual words that make sense eg "IwentTOtheZooONMondaythe13ofMay", they would get it a lot quicker.
[13:54] <Squirm> Maaz:<PHONE_NUMBER>12/60
[13:54] <Maaz> Squirm: 5528.98065853
[13:54] <Kilos> i dunno about vista and win 7 but xp you can go in as root while booting and change password
[13:54] <Squirm> Maaz: 5528.98065853/24
[13:54] <Maaz> Squirm:<PHONE_NUMBER>05
[13:54] <magespawn> you can with the other two as well
[13:54] <Squirm><PHONE_NUMBER>05/4
[13:55] <Squirm> Maaz:<PHONE_NUMBER>05/4
[13:55] <Maaz> Squirm: 57.5935485262
[13:55] <Squirm> 57 months
[13:55] <Squirm> :P
[13:55] <Squirm> meh
[13:55] <Squirm> that was wrong
[13:55] <magespawn> Squirm what are you doing?
[13:55] <Squirm> lol
[13:55] <Kilos> yeah what?
[13:55] <Kilos> how come maaz answers that
[13:55] <Squirm> calculating my offset in months, the long way
[13:55] <Squirm> :P
[13:57] <Kilos> what offset Squirm
[13:59] <Squirm> .:Squirm:. lol, because I reset my bios, my time change:  offset 19904330.370724 sec
[13:59] <Kilos> is maaz deducting the first from the second
[14:00] <magespawn> Squirm, is asking Maaz to the maths from seconds to months conversion
[14:00] <Squirm> Maaz: 19904330.370724/60/60/24
[14:00] <Maaz> Squirm:<PHONE_NUMBER>06
[14:00] <Squirm> 230days
[14:00] <Kilos> oh my
[14:00] <magespawn> but what is that offset measuring?
[14:01] <magespawn> offset from what?
[14:01] <Kilos> whats the 60's
[14:01] <Squirm> I ran ntpdate
[14:01] <magespawn> i see
[14:02] <Kilos> Brute Force Attack will take up to<PHONE_NUMBER>2 years
[14:02] <Kilos> You should have bought a password manager! :-)
[14:02] <Kilos> hahaha
[14:03] <Squirm> lol
[14:03] <Squirm> Kilos: what are you looking to do?
[14:03] <magespawn> then ppl like Linked in go and store it in a unencrypted database so making it waste of time anyway
[14:03] <magespawn> for you and the cracker
[14:04] <Kilos> looking how secure my password is Squirm
[14:04] <Squirm> use a better encryption and more complicated, randomely generated passwords :P
[14:05] <magespawn> tell it to use the full ASCII set
[14:05] <Squirm> Kilos: run this
[14:05] <Kilos> no man one good strong password that you make part of your life and use for everything
[14:05] <Squirm> head -c 500 /dev/urandom | tr -dc 'a-zA-Z0-9' | fold -w 10 | head -n 1
[14:06] <Squirm> where the -w 10 is the length of your password
[14:06] <Squirm> I use that to generate a random, temporary file name
[14:14] <Squirm> 0o
[14:14] <Kilos> eish second power cut today\
[14:15] <Kilos> this one hurt my maverick, even terminal takes a while to open
[14:15] <Squirm> Kilos
[14:15] <Squirm> the powercut today
[14:15] <Squirm> broke my motherboard
[14:15] <Squirm> or hdd
[14:15] <Squirm> I just got it booting now
[14:15] <Kilos> eish
[14:15] <Squirm> been down since 9:30
[14:15] <Squirm> but it booted with a lot of errors
[14:16] <Kilos> bad news all these cuts without warning
[14:16] <Kilos> you need to run fsck
[14:16] <Squirm> yep
[14:16] <Squirm> did
[14:16] <Kilos> or recovery on booting
[14:16] <Squirm> 3rd time this has happened
[14:16] <Kilos> sucks hey
[14:17] <Kilos> whats that output from that thing i ran Squirm
[14:18] <Kilos> SWN9LE8yl2Zpv
[14:18] <Squirm> random
[14:18] <Kilos> how you gonna remember that
[14:18] <Squirm> :P
[14:19] <Squirm> I remember a random 6 digit password
[14:19] <Squirm> change the -w 10 to a -w 6 to get 6 digits
[14:19] <Kilos> na better to use numbers and words that have some meaning to you
[14:20] <Kilos> then upper and lower case some of them
[14:23] <Kilos> as in 1234Squirm!@#$
[14:23] <magespawn> 14 mins till serve upgrade
[14:23] <Banlam> the hard part comes remembering which passwords are uppercased and which aren't
[14:23] <Kilos> yay magespawn thats quick
[14:24] <Kilos> lol @ Banlam
[14:30] <magespawn> I am off home later all.
[14:30] <Kilos> cheers magespawn
[14:42] <Kilos> go home safe all of you
[14:42] <Kilos> bbl
[16:53] <nuvolari> o/
[16:53] <nuvolari> hello everyone
[16:53] <Cantide> hello ^-^
[16:58] <nuvolari> lo Cantide! How're you?
[16:59] <Cantide> I am well :)
[16:59] <Cantide> and you?
[17:03] <nuvolari> doing good thank you
[17:04] <Cantide> :)
[17:16]  * nuvolari drops a pin
[17:19]  * Cantide tries not to step on it
[17:30] <Kilos> yo Cantide evening all
[17:31] <Cantide> hey Kilos :p
[18:02] <Kilos> haha good lad
[18:25] <George__> Hi Ubuntu Loco guys
[18:25] <Kilos> hi George__
[18:27] <Kilos> lo nuvolari
[18:27] <George__> Does the loco team have any meetings other than on IRC? Like a regular LUG?
[18:28] <Banlam> George__, where are you located?
[18:30] <George__> Centurion, Gauteng
[18:31] <inetpro> good evening
[18:31] <Banlam> I think there are occasional Ubuntu Hours in the area
[18:32] <Banlam> I wonder where queery is
[18:32] <Banlam> I think he's also around there
[18:32] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[18:32]  * inetpro feels a lot better than this afternoon
[18:32] <Kilos> head bad inetpro ?
[18:32] <inetpro> will try to limit the time in front of the screen though
[18:32] <Kilos> queisnt on tonight
[18:33] <Kilos> queery
[18:33] <Kilos> George__, are you on the mailing list
[18:33] <George__> Nope, should probably subscribe eh?
[18:33] <Kilos><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:34] <inetpro> George__: we're not really a LUG but there are other meetings like release parties, Ubuntu Hours, etc
[18:34] <inetpro> all depends on members arranging it themselves
[18:34] <Kilos> leave your query there and one of the gauteng guys will reply
[18:35] <George__> Cool :) Thanks
[18:35] <inetpro> nothing as scheduled as our monthly meetings here on IRC
[18:36] <inetpro> thing is that we have many members from diverse physical locations around the country
[18:36] <inetpro> IRC is still the most efficient for having our meetings
[18:38] <George__> Makes sense :D
[18:38] <Kilos> George__, you must visit here more often and try attend our meetings. always nice to have new faces around
[18:38] <inetpro> Maaz: tell charl he should look at "Skype jumps the shark: Seven alternative VoIP services" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/skype-jumps-the-shark-seven-alternative-voip-services/2488
[18:38] <Maaz> inetpro: Sure, I'll tell Charl on freenode
[18:39] <Kilos> or even lurk here everyday
[18:40] <George__> Kilos: I'll try to hang out here more often
[18:40] <inetpro> George__: how long have you been using Ubuntu?
[18:40] <Kilos> great always welcome
[18:41] <Kilos> you here with your browser?
[18:41] <George__> inetpro: Been using linux for about 5 years and Ubuntu since Jan this year. Was using Suse before Ubuntu
[18:41] <inetpro> great!
[18:41] <George__> Kilos: Jip not really clued up with IRC, do I need a client?
[18:42] <inetpro> George__: try connecting with a proper client
[18:42] <inetpro> like xchat
[18:42] <Kilos> George__, install xchat
[18:42] <Kilos> hehe
[18:42] <inetpro> or quassel
[18:42] <George__> I'll install xchat... or quassel
[18:42] <Kilos> he isnt on kubuntu
[18:42] <inetpro> or even pidgin if you have to
[18:42] <inetpro> or irssi
[18:42] <inetpro> if you like the cli
[18:42] <inetpro> many choices
[18:43] <Kilos> xchat rocks just dont use xchat-gnome
[18:43] <George__> Think I'll go with xchat for now
[18:43] <Kilos> sudo apt-get install xchat
[18:43] <George__> Thanks Kilos
[18:43] <Kilos> yw
[18:44] <Kilos> inetpro, xchat rocks
[18:44] <inetpro> Kilos: sure
[18:44] <Kilos> just that little bit better than quassel and konversation
[18:44] <inetpro> haha
[18:44] <Kilos> hehe
[18:45] <Kilos> i have a great internet connection tonight
[18:46] <Kilos> took 1 day short of a month
[18:46] <Kilos> that was quick GeorgeSteven
[18:46] <GeorgeSteven> OK I'm on with xchat
[18:47] <GeorgeSteven> :D
[18:48] <Kilos> you can go settings preferences and make it beep when your nick is mentioned
[18:48] <Kilos> alerts i think its called
[18:50] <GeorgeSteven> Kilos: thanks found it!
[18:51] <Kilos> takes some trial and error to get everything setup to your liking but worth the trouble
[18:52] <Kilos> inetpro, you still using unity?
[18:55] <Kilos> hey magespawn
[18:56] <magespawn> hi Kilos
[18:56] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[18:56] <Kilos> well inetpro dont forget all the how tos hey
[18:57] <inetpro> Kilos: how tos?
[18:57] <Banlam> how to
[18:57] <Kilos> yeah man all the things im gonna need help with
[18:57] <Banlam> the plural
[18:57] <Kilos> sorry to's
[18:58] <Banlam> well
[18:58] <Banlam> no
[18:58] <inetpro> lol
[18:58] <Banlam> an apostrophe is defnitely wrong
[18:58] <Banlam> it's a difficult thing to pluralise
[18:58] <Kilos> isnt to's more than one to
[18:58] <Banlam> definitely not!
[18:58] <inetpro> Kilos: I just wondering what hot to stuffs that you are referring to
[18:58] <Kilos> lol
[18:59] <Banlam> an apostrophe implies possesion or an abbreviation
[18:59]  * inetpro clearly not on the same wavelength
[18:59] <Kilos> anyway the message has got through
[18:59] <inetpro> how to stuffs*
[18:59] <Banlam> how to tutorials
[18:59] <Kilos> not belonging to as well
[18:59] <CanStudy> >_<
[18:59] <CanStudy> tos would be correct in this case
[18:59] <Kilos> ill just say help
[19:00]  * CanStudy goes back to studying
[19:00] <Banlam> just confusing
[19:00] <Banlam> :)
[19:00] <magespawn> well not good English though
[19:00] <CanStudy> The dos and don'ts of English grammar .-.
[19:00] <Kilos> unity doesnt have top and bottom panels hey?
[19:01] <Kilos> what about multiple workspaces?
[19:01] <inetpro> Kilos: ahh, you mean I should remeber how to help with Unity?
[19:01] <inetpro> remember*
[19:01] <Kilos> yes please inetpro
[19:01] <Kilos> sjoe that took a while
[19:01] <inetpro> lol
[19:01] <Kilos> head still sore inetpro ?
[19:02] <inetpro> Kilos: there's more than enough peeps around using it
[19:02] <Kilos> im bang to leave maverick
[19:02] <inetpro> and it's getting easier with each release
[19:02] <CanStudy> i want my launcher to stack apps of the same type - basically the same as a nested menu -.-v
[19:03] <inetpro> the guys building the stuff are putting a lot of effort into usability studies
[19:03] <CanStudy> where can we go if we want to submit requests or suggestions?
[19:03] <Kilos> i think the ubuntu guys are going to put even more in now with others using unity
[19:04] <Kilos> CanStudy, talk to tumbles
[19:04] <inetpro> they even take guys from the streets who have never used computers before and they study how long they take to get going
[19:04]  * CanStudy tumbles down a rabbit hole
[19:04] <inetpro> CanStudy: gaan studeer!
[19:04] <CanStudy> ja ja!
[19:04] <CanStudy> ek sal, nou nou!
[19:04] <inetpro> :-)
[19:04] <Kilos> no man CanStudy tumbleweed
[19:05] <Kilos> haha
[19:05] <CanStudy> Kilos, I figured that out after looking at the nick list :p
[19:05] <Kilos> lol
[19:05] <tumbleweed> hello?
[19:05] <Kilos> he is on the dev team
[19:05] <Kilos> CanStudy, talk to him
[19:05] <CanStudy> umm
[19:06] <Kilos> hi tumbleweed
[19:06] <Cantide> tumbleweed, gripes about unity?
[19:06]  * tumbleweed sees discussion about unity stuff
[19:06] <tumbleweed> that's not anything that I have anything to do with
[19:06] <Cantide> well, the launcher in particular
[19:06] <Cantide> tumbleweed, then i've been misled :p
[19:06] <tumbleweed> I know there are lists where design ideas are discussed with anyone who is interested
[19:06] <inetpro> tumbleweed: I think Kilos thought that you were CanStudy
[19:07] <inetpro> Kilos: am I right?
[19:07] <tumbleweed> but I also know that they really don't want people just coming and griping with them :)
[19:07] <tumbleweed> because they want to make progress rather than have arguments with people that hate change
[19:07] <Kilos> nope i was hoping tumbleweed could point him in the right dirtection
[19:07] <Kilos> direction
[19:07] <inetpro> ahh
[19:07] <tumbleweed> http://unity.ubuntu.com/contact-us/
[19:08]  * Cantide gripes
[19:08] <Cantide> thanks, tumbleweed :)
[19:08] <tumbleweed> np
[19:08] <Cantide> i'd need to prepare some images before proposing ideas
[19:08] <Cantide> actually, i don't really have solutions, but i have problems
[19:09] <inetpro> eish
[19:09] <Kilos> lol
[19:09] <Cantide> :p
[19:09] <Cantide> i have one solution though ( that works for me anyway )
[19:09] <Cantide> oh, #ubuntu-unity ... hmmm
[19:10] <tumbleweed> I suggest lurking before proposing anything, anyway
[19:10] <inetpro> I must admit that I can see a lot of good progress with Unity
[19:10] <Cantide> of course
[19:10] <tumbleweed> it's usually helpful to get a feel for how things are discussed, and get to know who to listen to
[19:10] <Cantide> and i'm sure a million other people have already said what i would like to say
[19:10] <inetpro> and I can see that there's still a long road ahead
[19:10] <GeorgeSteven> Good night everyone. Thanks for the help tonight. Hope to lurk around again soon :D
[19:10] <inetpro> GeorgeSteven: you're welcome
[19:11] <Cantide> good night, GeorgeSteven 'o'
[19:11] <Kilos> night GeorgeSteven anytime
[19:11] <tumbleweed> generally the way to get things done is to be prepared to do some work yourself
[19:11] <tumbleweed> people rally behind good ideas that have started happening
[19:12] <inetpro> tumbleweed: you can say that again
[19:12] <Kilos> does keeping maaz busy count?
[19:13] <inetpro> and then there's enough room for joining other teams with other ideas
[19:13] <inetpro> but there's nothing wrong with voicing your opinions
[19:14] <inetpro> obviously if it's within reason
[19:15] <Kilos> i think most of the anti unity is from gnome2 working so well
[19:15] <Kilos> and folks getting used to it
[19:16] <Cantide> i've gotten a little used to Unity, but it has some flaws that seriously impact my efficiency
[19:16] <Kilos> so im willing to give unity a good go with some help from my friends
[19:16] <Kilos> wb magespawn
[19:16] <inetpro> Kilos: gnome2 has a lot of flaws that needed fixing for a long time
[19:16] <inetpro> has had a lot of flaws*
[19:16] <Cantide> and those all have to do with the lack of the nested menu, and the lack of the panel at the bottom
[19:17] <magespawn> ty Kilos
[19:17] <magespawn> still learning seamonkey
[19:17] <Kilos> yip i noticed up to maverick but then got nice and stable
[19:17] <Cantide> and also the way the launcher behaves when you have too many icons there
[19:17] <Kilos> Cantide, wait some
[19:18] <Kilos> Maaz, unity guide
[19:18] <Maaz> http://ubuntu-za.org/news/2012/06/21/unity-orientation-guide-ubuntu-1204-lts
[19:18] <Cantide> Kilos, yes, but perhaps pointing them out might help to have them corrected sooner
[19:18] <nuvolari> o/
[19:18] <nuvolari> hi oom Kilos
[19:18] <Kilos> Cantide, ^^
[19:18] <nuvolari> het oom 'n lekker dag gehad?
[19:18] <nuvolari> hi magespawn
[19:18]  * Cantide clicks
[19:18] <Kilos> ya dankie seun
[19:18] <Kilos> en jy
[19:18] <nuvolari> laaang dag danakie :P
[19:18] <nuvolari> *nadkie
[19:19] <nuvolari> *dankie
[19:19] <nuvolari> sjoe
[19:19] <Kilos> lol lyk so
[19:19] <nuvolari> bleh
[19:19] <nuvolari> my bed roep
[19:20] <Kilos> jou vriend het nie gepos nie seun, het jy die regte adres gegeee
[19:20] <nuvolari> oom moet lekker slaap
[19:20] <Kilos> jy ook nuvolari
[19:20] <nuvolari> hmm, ek het ja oom
[19:20] <Kilos> more is nog n dag
[19:20] <nuvolari> hy sal seker nog met oom kontak
[19:20] <Kilos> ok dankie
[19:20] <Kilos> lekker slaap
[19:20] <nuvolari> hy het oom se besonderhede gevra, so ek reken nie hy gaan niks daarmee doen nie :P
[19:21] <nuvolari> dankie oom
[19:21] <nuvolari> g'night everyone
[19:22] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[19:22]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[19:22] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee for all
[19:22] <Maaz> Come on ya buncha geeks. Rock up with your mugs with the correct amount of sugar added already
[19:23] <Cantide> that unity guide is more like a 'welcome to ubuntu (in general) with unity'
[19:23] <Kilos> inetpro, koffie!
[19:23] <Cantide> doesn't touch on the way unity itself works
[19:23] <Kilos> you read the whole thing already Cantide
[19:23] <Cantide> or differences in usability between it and gnome 2.x, and how unity addresses those differences
[19:23] <inetpro> Maaz: coffee please
[19:23] <Maaz> inetpro: Alrighty
[19:24] <Cantide> Kilos, i read the parts about the launcher, as that is my biggest gripe :p
[19:24] <Cantide> also, a lot of that is not specifically about unity, but more about apps and other stuff
[19:24] <Kilos> methinks better not to gripe but to make suggestions on how to improve things
[19:24] <Cantide> of course
[19:24] <Cantide> but it has to start with a gripe :p
[19:25] <Kilos> lol
[19:25] <Cantide> had i not a gripe, i would be happy with it and not want it changed
[19:25] <Kilos> go study
[19:25] <Cantide> the fact that it doesn't work quite how i want it to is a good thing - it means i can raise my concerns and help improve it ( i hope )
[19:25] <Kilos> yip
[19:26] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos and inetpro!
[19:26] <Cantide> i think i need to write something up and submit it to them
[19:26] <Kilos> Maaz, danke
[19:26] <Maaz> Bitteschön
[19:26] <inetpro> Cantide: as long as it is raised in the correct forums
[19:26] <inetpro> Maaz: ty
[19:26] <Maaz> You are welcome inetpro
[19:26] <Cantide> Maaz ist ein Deutscher?
[19:26] <Maaz> Cantide: Excuse me?
[19:26] <Cantide> Maaz, kannst du Deutsch sprechen?
[19:26] <Maaz> Cantide: Huh?
[19:26] <inetpro> Cantide: nein
[19:26] <Cantide> nope
[19:26] <Cantide> ja, ich weiss
[19:26] <inetpro> :-)
[19:26] <Cantide> strange bot :p
[19:27] <Kilos> clever bot
[19:27] <Kilos> i love maaz
[19:27] <Cantide> well, he used the umlaut correctly, i'll give him that :p
[19:27] <Kilos> hehe
[19:27] <inetpro> Cantide: du kannst ihn aber immer Deutsch lehren
[19:27] <Cantide> inetpro, i'll need to find the correct forums first
[19:28] <Cantide> inetpro, ich hab kein Zeit ._.
[19:28] <Cantide> kein, keine?
[19:28] <Kilos> doesnt that link get you to the right place
[19:28] <Cantide> heh, even my German grammar is broken :p
[19:28] <Cantide> Kilos, i suppose so :p
[19:28] <Cantide> let's hope i still have the link once i have compiled something
[19:28] <Kilos> save it to a file on desktop man
[19:29] <Kilos> then go study
[19:29] <Cantide> haha
[19:29] <Cantide> yes, sir!
[19:29] <Kilos> lol
[19:29] <Cantide> my desktop is clean :3
[19:29] <Kilos> then you wont lose it
[19:30] <Cantide> good point :p
[19:30] <Cantide> i
[19:30] <Cantide> i'll bookmark it :)
[19:30] <Kilos> i go sleep too now. night everyone
[19:30] <Kilos> sleep tight
[19:31] <Cantide> night~
[19:31] <Kilos> nag inetpro
[19:44] <magespawn> night all


[04:23] <mup> Bug #1862735 changed: Ubuntu 18.04 GA deployment is failing in MAAS <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862735>
[04:29] <mup> Bug #1862735 opened: Ubuntu 18.04 GA deployment is failing in MAAS <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862735>
[04:35] <mup> Bug #1862735 changed: Ubuntu 18.04 GA deployment is failing in MAAS <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862735>
[04:41] <mup> Bug #1862856 changed: In maas, `ubuntu-distro-info --lts` should be the default release to deploy <champagne> <maas (Ubuntu):Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862856>
[07:38] <tosaraja> What's the point in the name=value pair in the end when running "maas maas_account boot-source-selections read 1 foo=bar"?
[07:52] <tosaraja> wow...that boot-source-selection and boot-source-selections along with boot-source is very very confusing
[08:45] <mup> Bug #1872664 opened: Please don't use "Ipmi" (capitalized this way) in machines overview <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872664>
[08:57] <mup> Bug #1872664 changed: Please don't use "Ipmi" (capitalized this way) in machines overview <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872664>
[09:03] <mup> Bug #1872664 opened: Please don't use "Ipmi" (capitalized this way) in machines overview <ui> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872664>
[16:04] <jaroug> ~.
[16:04] <jaroug> ~.
[18:25] <antonym> any reason why the setting under storage Erase nodes' disks prior to releasing doesn't stick after unchecking and clicking save?  is there another way to disable erasing nodes via cli?