[10:28] <mapreri> cjwatson: is #1244868 going to be also available to people? e.g. allow person to enable/disable architecture (say, i'm not interested in i386 builds, then i can save you resources and space)
[10:30] <wgrant> mapreri: Yes, it will be.
[10:30] <wgrant> Not right now, but in the coming weeks.
[10:33] <mapreri> ack, thanks
[10:36] <wgrant> (if all goes well it'll probably be next week, but we're rolling out a suite of improvements so I don't want to be too optimistic :))
[22:17] <sergio-br2> what's the maximum size of a PPA?


[02:06] <Maik> en1gma why on a phone when there's already Ubuntu Touch?
[02:06] <Maik> the good folks over at UBports develop it.
[02:07] <Maik> and there are phones available with Ubuntu Touch preinstalled. I have a Volla Phone X and 22
[02:15] <en1gma> Maik because i dont really care about the gui for a few things. im comparing this to getting rpi5 or something which if i get the right kind of phone/tablet i should get alot more for the very little extra cash. used phone for $120 or something and same for rpi5
[02:15] <en1gma> the phone includes so much more
[02:15] <en1gma> i might look into ubuntu-touch though
[02:15] <en1gma> i forgot about it.


[12:42] <defendguin> BenC: do you know what the typical operating temperature of a intel dual core processor is?
[12:43] <BenC> defendguin: mine shows 44C
[12:43] <BenC> it's pretty idle though
[12:43] <defendguin> how many mhz?
[12:44] <defendguin> its clocking down to 1ghz or 800mhz?
[12:53] <defendguin> BenC: how should i record this?   i opened up this friend of mine's myspace page with about 50 slide shows and it gets the processor up half way and sends both cores to full speed and the fan begins to kick in and blow some air out of the side of the laptop and the temp gets up to about 71 degrees
[12:53] <BenC> it's a 1.8Ghz
[12:53] <BenC> so it's probably clocking down to 1
[12:54] <BenC> defendguin: sounds like you can blame firefox...not sure if that's a bug
[12:54] <defendguin> i blame my friend
[12:54] <defendguin> the page is hideous
[12:55] <JanC> IIRC those CPUs are safe up to 100 C or something?
[12:55] <defendguin> i have no idea
[12:56] <JanC> maybe not really good for CPU lifetime though  :)
[12:56] <defendguin> but it certainly seems like the fan is whirring and working properly
[01:00] <JanC> depends on where you measure too of course
[01:02] <defendguin> BenC: i guess this guy just has different hardware because the fan seems to be very responsive to the processor here.  Anywhere from silent at idle to noticeable when the processor was being used heavily
[01:15] <defendguin> BenC: the guy pretty much gets the same results as me temp wise.   is 49C really too hot for a mostly idle processor?
[01:15] <BenC> not really
[01:17] <defendguin> i guess i could boot back into edgy and see if it is the same
[01:20] <defendguin> damn i guess i remove those options from grub :-(
[01:35] <defendguin> I am reading the technical specifications and typically they use a range of anywhere between 50 and 100C in these documents
[01:39] <defendguin> any time they list anything below that the processor is in one of several sleep states
[01:51] <BenC> defendguin: sounds like a non-bug to me then
[01:54] <BenC> defendguin: I can get mine up to 75C doing a compile
[01:54] <BenC> then there's this:
[01:54] <BenC> critical (S5):           126 C
[01:55] <BenC> if critical trip point (instant power off) is 126C, then 70, even 80, doesn't sound so bad
[01:59] <Amaranth> 75C? damn, i get to 88C
[04:02] <panduwana> hello, i'm new, is there any tutorial about making kernel module for ubuntu?
[04:04] <BenC> panduwana: you really want #ubuntu
[04:04] <panduwana> oh ok sorry
[04:08] <Ivan_> probably an annoying questions by now, but ps3 wifi, how?
[04:17] <BenC> Ivan_: not
[04:17] <BenC> only ethernet is supported on ps3
[04:17] <BenC> otherwise use a USB wireless dongle supported by linux
[04:18] <mjg59> BenC: Hm. So, we're almost certainly going to want the code to forcible enable the HPET on ICH systems
[04:18] <mjg59> Which is, unfortunately, unlikely to make it in for .22
[04:18] <mjg59> But we should have what's approximately the final patch before then
[04:23] <BenC> mjg59: Ok
[04:26] <mjg59> So I don't think it's going to be a long term merge issue, but it may represent a divergence from upstream
[04:27] <mjg59> The issue is that the PIT has a minimum useful tick rate of around 40Hz, but there's the potential for us to get lower than that
[04:27] <mjg59> So HPET is useful, and most hardware from the past couple of years supports it. But BIOSes didn't start turning it on until fairly recently
[04:28] <mjg59> So it's a potentially very useful patch for power conservationm
[04:31] <BenC> Sounds useful, definitely give it a good once over
[04:32] <mjg59> Right. There's a possible suspend regression at the moment, which is why I'm not pushing it right now
[04:32] <mjg59> I'll see if I can find hardware to duplicate it on
[04:32] <mjg59> But then, I get the feeling that there may be regressions in that field in .22 in general right now, so...
[04:48] <BenC> mjg59: how big is the patch?
[04:48] <mjg59> Erm.
[04:48] <mjg59> Hang on a sec...
[04:49] <mjg59> 14K
[04:50] <Amaranth> lines or file size?
[04:50] <mjg59> File size
[04:50] <mjg59> 540 lines of diff (including context and headers)
[04:51] <mjg59> So not really /too/ bad
[04:51] <mjg59> It is, irritatingly, more of an hpet update rather than just the force-enabling
[04:51] <mjg59> But large parts of it are tied together
[04:57] <BenC> mjg59: any chance the hpet update gets into 2.6.22? :)
[04:57] <mjg59> Doesn't seem likely
[04:57] <mjg59> I've been talking to upstream about it
[09:10] <Edulix> hi
[09:11] <Edulix> I compiled my own ubuntu kernel, it was linux-source-2.6.22_2.6.22-2.7.tar.gz
[09:11] <Edulix> but it created 2.6.21 packages! how's that? wasn't it a 2.6.22? I'm confused
[03:04] <farion> can someone explain me, howto compile the source of linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22?
[03:13] <BenC> farion: sudo apt-get build-dep linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22; apt-get -b source linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22
[03:41] <farion> BenC: Okay, thx i'll try
[03:45] <ogra> BenC, i did the initramfs measurements -ltsp vs. -i386 ... -ltsp is finishing 11secs faster if i add a break=bottom ...
[03:46] <BenC> ogra: so from pxe finish to busybox is 11 seconds different?
[03:46] <ogra> yep
[03:46] <ogra> we take 55sec they 44
[03:46] <BenC> what about break=top?
[03:47] <ogra> i'll try with break top as well
[03:47] <ogra> hee beaten me
[03:47] <ogra> *heh
[03:47] <BenC> hehe
[03:47] <BenC> would be nice to know how much of that is initial kernel and how much is driver loading and initramfs scripts
[03:47] <ogra> yep
[03:48] <BenC> maybe take out the hibernate script in initramfs...you guys don't need that, right?
[03:48] <ogra> im not a big fan of stopwatching though ...
[03:48] <BenC> hehe
[03:48] <ogra> right
[03:49] <Mithrandir> you should just install bootchart and work from that.
[03:50] <ogra> Mithrandir, well, jammcq refuses to use bootchart ... and on this 200Mhz client it takes nearly 1h to generate the final image ...
[03:51] <ogra> to keep some consistency with the ltsp guis i resrted to use their "hit powerbutton and stopwatch" method for now
[03:51] <mjg59> 11 seconds seems like a fairly irrelevant difference when the complaint is an extra three minutes
[03:51] <ogra> *guys
[03:51] <ogra> yeah
[03:52] <ogra> it is
[03:52] <Mithrandir> ogra: just copying the tar.gz somewhere else and generating the image there should work fine.
[03:52] <ogra> sadly we have many of these 11 seconds in various places ... it stacks up
[03:55] <ogra> break top gives me 32secs for i386 and 23 sec for -ltsp
[03:56] <ogra> so their vmlinuz is already faster
[03:58] <maks_> well non-generic kernel
[03:58] <BenC> our vmlinuz should be pretty stripped down
[03:59] <BenC> what kernel is ltsp's?
[04:02] <zul> gah...I dislike it when things change
[04:04] <mjg59> ogra: That accounts for almost the entirity of the 11 seconds, so if you want to reduce it that's clearly what you should be looking at. However, it's still going to make almost no difference overall.
[04:04] <ogra> yeah
[04:05] <ogra> i'm still trying to find the big switch i just need to flip to loose 2mins
[04:05] <mjg59> ogra: If you want to actually improve things, I think yo're going to have to figure out why stuff is actually slower. Did you do the NFS benchmarking with an ltsp kernel?
[04:05] <ogra> but it seems its just the stacked up amount of all these little things
[04:05] <ogra> yes, no big difference
[04:06] <ogra> one thing i assume will make a big difference is to use the ltsp initramfs script ... but thats to hackish that i even want to think about using it
[04:06] <ogra> instead of a real nfsroot they use tmpfses and load all stuff into ram before going on with booting the real thing
[04:08] <ogra> so the actual bootsequence is done from ram ... not from the nfsroot
[04:09] <mjg59> So they transfer over a large file and then run from that?
[04:11] <ogra> the create tmpfses and move or bind mount particular nfs dirs into that
[04:11] <ogra> we do the same to gain rw access to crtain files on the readonly nfsroot ... but only in the booting system, not in the initramfs
[04:12] <BenC> well the initramfs is alreayd all in ram
[04:12] <mjg59> Right, but where are the binaries that they're actually executing?
[04:13] <BenC> doesn't read much from the nfsmount as far as I know
[04:13] <ogra> no, we just plainly mount /
[04:13] <ogra> http://www.mcquillansystems.com/init.txt
[04:14] <ogra> thats their initramfs creator script
[04:15] <mjg59> ogra: That doesn't give a lot of insight
[04:15] <mjg59> But by the looks of it, the binaries they execute still come from the nfs mount, right?
[04:15] <ogra> right
[04:15] <mjg59> So I can't see why that would make any difference to startup times
[04:15] <ogra> ah, sorry, they dont bindmount, they link
[04:15] <mjg59> The only obvious difference is that their /tmp is on tmpfs
[04:16] <mjg59> Where does /tmp come from on the edubuntu systems?
[04:16] <ogra> ours as well, but later in the loop
[04:16] <ogra> from ltsp-client-setup, the firt initscript we run on ltsp clients
[04:16] <ogra> *first
[04:17] <ogra> which bind mounts various other stuff to ram as well
[04:17] <mjg59> Ok. So in that case, I can't see any reason why that would explain any speed differences
[04:17] <ogra> but only wih the writeabilty in mind, no speed thoughts involved
[04:18] <ogra> well, their stuff is earlier in ram than ours thats the only difference i see
[04:19] <ogra> if you access anything the second ime you might be lucky to get it from ram instead of the nfsroot
[04:20] <mjg59> ?
[04:20] <mjg59> It doesn't execute anything from ram
[04:20] <ogra> if your /bin is on a ramdisk ?
[04:20] <mjg59> It's not!
[04:21] <mjg59>  /bin is just a symlink into an NFS mount
[04:22] <ogra> hmm
[04:22] <ogra> right
[04:24] <ogra> you would have to copy it instead ... which would slow down even more ... weird ...
[04:24] <farion> howto do i recompile my ubuntu standardkernel - i only want to change two items?
[04:24] <ogra> i'm really runing out of ideas wher else to look
[04:25] <mjg59> farion: This isn't a support channel - #ubuntu is a better place to ask questions like that
[05:25] <lamont> 09:25:18.548890 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.42014 > <IP_ADDRESS>.80: S<PHONE_NUMBER>:4194244240(0) win 5840 <mss 1460,sackOK,timestamp 93976 0,nop,wscale 5>
[05:25] <lamont> 09:25:18.549337 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.80 > <IP_ADDRESS>.42014: S<PHONE_NUMBER>:1534251669(0) ack<PHONE_NUMBER> win 5792 <mss 1460,sackOK,timestamp 833213942 93976,nop,wscale 7>
[05:25] <lamont> 09:25:18.549382 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.42014 > <IP_ADDRESS>.80: . ack 1 win 183 <nop,nop,timestamp 93976 833213942>
[05:25] <lamont> so why do we pick a window size of 183??
[05:27] <lamont> and then why does the far side send 638 octets of data to that 183 window?
[06:12] <BenC> Anyone have any thoughts on enabling SLUB vs SLAB in gutsy?
[06:12] <BenC> I've been reading it, and it actually fixes some bugs, so I'm considering it for next upload
[06:14] <BenC> http://lwn.net/Articles/229096/ in case anyone wants to read up on it
[06:16] <lamont> any reason I can't run a gutsy kernel on a feisty box?
[06:16] <lamont> BenC: any chance you have a machine with the current top-of-tree kernel on it?
[06:16] <BenC> yeah
[06:17] <BenC> lamont: you can run gutsy kernel on feisty...I am
[06:17] <BenC> in fact, I'm running it on edgy in a few places too
[06:17] <lamont> could you capture the 3-way handshake for a wget of some random web page for me?
[06:17] <lamont> tcpdump, that is
[06:17] <lamont> BenC: rebuilt, or just drop the deb in and go?
[06:17] <BenC> if you can give me commands, I can do that
[06:17] <BenC> lamont: dpkg -i, and reboot
[06:18] <lamont> tcpdump -ni eth0 host <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:18] <lamont> and in another window: wget <IP_ADDRESS>
[06:18] <BenC> lamont: nvidia/fglrx support is a different story
[06:18] <lamont> then grab the first 3 lines of output
[06:18] <lamont> specifically, I'm looking at the number after 'win' :)
[06:18] <BenC> lamont:  does it matter than I'm behind a firewall?
[06:18] <lamont> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV25GL [Quadro4 900 XGL]  (rev a3)
[06:18] <lamont> no matter
[06:19] <lamont> so as long as it stll works, no 3d/etc is fine
[06:19] <BenC> yeah, it'll still work
[06:19] <BenC> 12:19:33.762854 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.59038 > <IP_ADDRESS>.80: S<PHONE_NUMBER>:2512816493(0) win 5840 <mss 1460,sackOK,timestamp 36801128 0,nop,wscale 7>
[06:19] <BenC> 12:19:33.799159 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.80 > <IP_ADDRESS>.59038: S<PHONE_NUMBER>:2499560590(0) ack<PHONE_NUMBER> win 8190 <mss 1460>
[06:19] <BenC> 12:19:33.799215 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.59038 > <IP_ADDRESS>.80: . ack 1 win 5840
[06:20] <BenC> this is stock 2.6.22-rc1
[06:20] <BenC> well, it's gutsy kernel, but it's stock
[06:20] <lamont> 10:20:43.051400 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.44514 > <IP_ADDRESS>.80: . ack 1 win 183 <nop,nop,timestamp<PHONE_NUMBER>7170>
[06:20] <lamont> that's the feisty kernel
[06:21] <lamont> note the tcp receive window size of 183...
[06:21] <lamont> whatever fixed that bug would be good to get back into feisty
[06:21] <BenC> could be affected by sysctl stuff
[06:21] <lamont> 'twould make my coworkers happy
[06:21] <lamont> mine started with a window of 5840 as well
[06:22] <lamont> it just drops dramatically on the final ack
[06:22] <BenC> what win do you get back from remote?
[06:23] <BenC> win/scale stuff is weird
[06:23] <BenC> I've seen where certain windows machines work badly with linux when scaling is turned on
[06:23] <lamont> 65535 from google
[06:24] <lamont> can I force it to not scale?
[06:25] <lamont> 10:20:43.051551 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.44514 > <IP_ADDRESS>.80: P 1:102(101) ack 1 win 183 <nop,nop,timestamp<PHONE_NUMBER>7170>
[06:25] <lamont> 10:20:43.136797 IP <IP_ADDRESS>.80 > <IP_ADDRESS>.44514: P 1:1431(1430) ack 102 win 65535 <nop,nop,timestamp 23137170 426415>
[06:26] <lamont> so does it violate RFC to send 1430 octets when the other end advertised a window of 183?
[06:33] <lamont> BenC: fixed in 2.6.22-1-server_2.6.22-1.5
[06:33] <BenC> lamont: there's a scaling setting in /proc/sys/ somewhere
[06:34] <lamont> thanks
[07:00] <lamont> BenC: hrm... actually, 2.6.22 shows the same issue, turning off window scaling makes it go away
[07:00] <lamont> --> bug in other vendor's stuff, not linux.  kthxbye
[07:00] <BenC> lamont: yeah, sounds about right
[07:08] <ogra> if i monitor an nfsroot thats mounted via udp with -o nolock with wireshark, why do i still see sunrpc noise over tcp ?
[08:05] <AnAnt> Hello, will there be a kernel fix for Feisty ?
[08:08] <zul> probably when it is ready
[08:09] <AnAnt> zul: do you know about that bug regarding MMC cards ?
[08:10] <Amaranth> you mean the broken tifm driver?
[08:10] <AnAnt> Amaranth: so it is broken ?
[08:11] <AnAnt> Amaranth: hello ?
[08:11] <Amaranth> yes
[08:11] <AnAnt> Amaranth: ic, no fix for it yet ?
[08:11] <Amaranth> you could use gutsy ;)
[08:12] <zul> its being worked on according to the bug reports
[08:12] <AnAnt> hmmm
[08:12] <AnAnt> zul: what is bug report # ?
[08:12] <zul> 53923
[08:13] <AnAnt> zul: thanks
[12:15] <mjg59> BenC: Did you have a chance to check the appletouch thing?


[01:32] <psusi> could a release manager retask bug #1361594 to trusty only please?  later releases are not affected.
[21:39] <BHSPiMonkey> Hi all. I've been encountering a strange issue wherein my mouse cursor becomes invisible, and stays that way (on one, or sometimes both) monitors, until I either restart X or it comes back on its own. It happens to me at least once a week while I'm working, and has happened at least for 2 or 3 months if not longer.
[21:40] <BHSPiMonkey> Normally I'd file a ticket but in this case I've made no progress in establishing reproduction steps, and I don't know enough about the internals to know where to poke around or investigate when I see it happen
[21:40] <BHSPiMonkey> So I'm hoping for a little guidance in terms of things I can do the next time it happens to try and build a sane report
[21:41] <rbasak> BHSPiMonkey: can you identify when it started?
[21:41] <rbasak> BHSPiMonkey: was that on upgrade from a previous release, for example, or when you received routine updates?
[21:42] <BHSPiMonkey> Things I've tried in order to make it reappear (to no avail): Toggling the gsetting that should show/hide it, switching to/from a TTY, hovering over several UI elements that would cause the cursor icon to change
[21:42] <rbasak> BHSPiMonkey: I would file a bug anyway since it might help you connect to others with the same issue which might help figure it out. It's fine just file a bug with its status as Incomplete for example.
[21:42] <BHSPiMonkey> rbasak: I cannot; it at least started on 15.04, and now I'm on 15.10 and it persists
[21:42] <rbasak> BHSPiMonkey: you could try a different desktop environment too, to isolate whether it is an X server problem or a desktop environment problem.
[21:44] <BHSPiMonkey> At this point should I file the bug under the ubuntu package itself?
[21:44] <BHSPiMonkey> Until we can at least identify where in the stack the problem exists
[21:45] <rbasak> It sounds like an x.org package to me.
[22:24] <BHSPiMonkey> Filed under xorg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1526079


[00:00] <knome> )
[00:07] <elky> elfy: i get the feeling the bug i reported hasn't gone anywhere fast btw :P
[00:07] <elfy> elky: it's a bit edge case I guess
[00:08] <elky> yeah
[00:08] <elfy> elky: *we* have had some odd ones lately - would be good to double check that if you can
[00:08] <elfy> with new image
[00:08] <elky> was considering it, yes
[00:08] <elky> maybe over the weekend
[00:09] <elfy> mmm
[00:09] <elfy> actually - know the bug #?
[00:10] <elfy> gah - another tracker bug
[00:10] <elfy> :(
[00:10] <elky> sec
[00:11] <elky> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1419555
[00:11] <elky> i brought it up in browser to check before i made a liar of myself :P
[00:11] <elky> bbiab
[00:11] <elfy> elky: yea - I wonder if that's the first appearance of bug 1425690
[00:12] <elfy> which is fixed
[00:12] <elfy> would be good to mark that as a dupe :)
[00:12] <elky> yay
[00:12] <elky> i'll double check it beofre i do that ok
[00:13] <elfy> just need to sync the image or grab a new one
[00:13] <elky> and dig out the netbook again :3
[00:13] <elfy> :)
[00:14] <elky> anyway bbl
[00:14] <elfy> I got a nexus7 from the community fund - been fun playing with that and ubuntu
[00:27] <elfy> knome: really do need to stop the 'it's awesome" in the support channel :)
[00:29] <knome> lol
[00:29] <elfy> knome: did you look at the 'poll' at all?
[00:29] <elfy> tried to make it things that people could replace
[00:30] <elfy> and not a list of 'all'
[00:30] <knome> not after the first time i looked at it, no
[00:30] <knome> i've been lagging behind in FOSS work the last days
[00:31] <elfy> right - well not much different - if you're about over weekend I am, perhaps shout out if you want
[00:33] <knome> likely not very much, but who knows... plans tend to change
[00:37] <elfy> ok
[00:37] <elfy> an evening midweek works too - or almost has to :p
[00:39] <knome> heh, yeah
[00:39] <knome> i should be able to look at stuff on mon/tue
[00:39] <knome> or late sunday
[00:39] <elfy> knome: well I guess have a look then shout
[00:39] <knome> yep, i will :)
[00:40] <elfy> pretty sure for this - there really isn't much choice of what and how
[00:40] <knome> midweek might very well work as well
[00:40] <knome> but no promises yet
[00:40] <knome> i still have to polish the wallpaper
[00:40] <knome> and the screenshot looks
[00:40] <knome> and the feature stuff :)
[00:40] <elfy> yep
[00:41] <elfy> and frankly - we can play with the poll content to day release
[00:41] <elfy> as long as link is on slide *shrug*
[00:41] <elfy> so - content
[00:43] <knome> hehe
[00:43] <knome> yes
[00:43] <knome> i'm also thinking if it should be an url on xubuntu.org
[00:43] <knome> so we can in the worst case change the content completely
[00:44] <knome> also allows us to explains ourselves a bit more
[00:44] <elfy> that'd work for me
[00:44] <elfy> I'd much prefer THAT to a g link for sure
[00:44] <knome> yep
[00:44] <knome> so let's do that
[00:44] <elfy> ok
[00:45] <knome> i can set it up when i poke at the slideshow
[00:45] <elfy> can we import ?
[00:45] <elfy> or build from scratch?
[00:45] <knome> import what?
[00:45] <elfy> mmmm
[00:46] <Unit193> Cookies?
[00:46] <elfy> what do you actually mean? x.org page? or it just links?
[00:46] <knome> :D
[00:46] <knome> i mean that let's put a xubuntu.org link in the slideshow
[00:46] <elfy> right - and the poll is where?
[00:46] <knome> eg. xubuntu.org/15-04-slideshow-poll
[00:46] <knome> which then links to the google poll
[00:47] <knome> but i guess we could *at some point* set internal polling too
[00:47] <knome> to get the layout we want, for example
[00:47] <elfy> oh right and assume people click that
[00:47] <knome> but no way that's happening for 15.04..
[00:47] <elfy> mmmm
[00:47] <knome> well, slim chance, but don't count on that :P
[00:47] <knome> i think it's ok to do the polls on google for now
[00:47] <knome> but making it a xubuntu link makes it less fishy
[00:48] <elfy> mmmm
[00:48] <knome> at least we aren't directing people directly to google
[00:48] <knome> they might not want to do that
[00:48] <elfy> I understand that point
[00:48] <elfy> on the other hand - that just gives people 2 points to drop out at
[00:48] <elfy> ok
[00:48] <knome> and the explanation page will then be completely in our control at all times (eg. not in the slideshow which needs an upload to fix...)
[00:49] <knome> well *shrug*
[00:49] <elfy> we've got 2 groups of people
[00:49] <knome> if people won't click two links, then they probably aren't interested in filling that biggish poll either
[00:49] <elfy> 1 - old users, grabbing image - the poll really is for them anyway
[00:50] <elfy> 1 - old users. not even looking
[00:50] <knome> i guess the *other* thing we could do
[00:50] <elfy> 2 - new users, they can't answer yet - they can at month 5
[00:50] <knome> is not to have the specific slide in the slideshow
[00:50] <knome> but link to it from the release announcement
[00:50] <elfy> so - basic link in slideshow
[00:50] <knome> i don't really know
[00:51] <knome> the problem you just outlined is... problemativ
[00:51] <knome> *c
[00:51] <elfy> then regular pings to social stuff
[00:51] <knome> yeah...
[00:51] <knome> that worked pretty well last time
[00:51] <elfy> same poll
[00:51] <knome> and avoids confusion
[00:51] <knome> so, mm
[00:51] <elfy> if we can make it differentiate - maybe link from social is different
[00:52] <knome> can be
[00:52] <knome> but then if we do the social media stuff
[00:52] <knome> how much good is the slideshow going to bring?
[00:52] <elfy> I like running the link in slideshow
[00:52] <elfy> new users WILL see it
[00:52] <knome> yeah, it's not a bad idea
[00:52] <knome> but then again it's not for new users
[00:52] <knome> :/
[00:53] <elfy> then maybe - oh., doesnt affect me - join social channels - see's bump
[00:53] <elfy> oh it does NOW
[00:53] <knome> heh
[00:53] <knome> yeah...
[00:53] <knome> but if that's it, why don't we shout out about our social media channels in the slideshow?
[00:53] <elfy> I didn'ty use that - used foo and bar
[00:53] <knome> (which is actually a nice idea...)
[00:53] <elfy> get a response
[00:54] <knome> they should get that poll on upgrade :P
[00:54] <elfy> always we're only going to get responses from people who do
[00:54] <elfy> yep - if we can :)
[00:54] <elfy> they WOULD be people we want
[00:55] <knome> well we can't bind any poll to upgrade :P
[00:55] <elfy> I did change this, that, the other
[00:55] <knome> i guess the best thing to do is to get publicity to the poll just before upgrade time
[00:55] <elfy> is that WE or CAN'T :D
[00:55] <elfy> yea for sure :)
[00:55] <knome> so to sum it up
[00:56] <knome> my main "concern"/doubt is that we're showing a poll to X people
[00:56] <elfy> I just think that if nothing else we get data we can't analyse - but we DO have data :)
[00:56] <knome> how many of those are actually people who are appropriate?
[00:56] <knome> or should we change the poll in a way that made all replies appropriate?
[00:56] <elfy> that's one of y concerns
[00:56] <knome> make them answer new/old user
[00:57] <knome> or user since X
[00:57] <elfy> impossible really - 2 different questions
[00:57] <elfy> did you change foo
[00:57] <elfy> do youy intend to change foo
[00:57] <knome> mhm
[00:57] <knome> but
[00:57] <knome> we can direct them at different form pages
[00:57] <elfy> not sure there is one
[00:57] <elfy> but...
[00:57] <elfy> oooh
[00:57] <elfy> good point
[00:58] <knome> eg. if they pick "new user", we can point them to a page that asks "how good do you think the xubuntu default application selection is?"
[00:58] <knome> or "do you think you will install new applications after installation?"
[00:58] <elfy> yea that would work
[00:58] <knome> or something like that
[00:58] <knome> and if you are an old user, just give them the poll we have now
[00:58] <elfy> yea
[00:59] <knome> that would solve the problem of some people not being the target
[00:59] <elfy> but new user - here is this poll - does kind of point at poll #3
[00:59] <elfy> you said you would - did you - did it work?
[00:59] <elfy> did you go back?
[00:59] <knome> right...
[01:00] <knome> then we'd have to gather their email addresses (opt-in of course)
[01:00] <knome> and it would require some more work
[01:00] <elfy> not sure if we're over egging the pudding here
[01:00] <knome> to compare the results
[01:00] <knome> well, that would be nice, but it's a very long-term plan
[01:01] <elfy> I tink if we can get useful data  out of a cycle - we're on a plus
[01:01] <elfy> I like 2 polls
[01:01] <knome> fortunately, if we set up the link like i proposed (via xubuntu.org), we can really postpone the "real" publishing date until the release day
[01:02] <elfy> yea ;)
[01:02] <knome> the thing we need to do now is to create the placeholder page in the right place
[01:02] <knome> and make sure the slideshow content makes sense
[01:02] <knome> eg. it doesn't talk too much about the poll
[01:02] <elfy> basically we've got till release day to decide on the 2 polls
[01:03] <knome> well it should be one poll
[01:03] <knome> with a branch
[01:03] <elfy> no
[01:03] <knome> nope
[01:03] <elfy> yea
[01:03] <knome> first page asks new/old user
[01:03] <knome> and then branches based on that
[01:03] <knome> two polls is just overcomplicating
[01:03] <knome> imo
[01:03] <elfy> yea - so *we* building 3 polls
[01:04] <elfy> first is new or old - then they point to the others
[01:04] <knome> no... :D
[01:04] <knome> the google poll system can branch inside the same poll
[01:04] <elfy> yes
[01:04] <knome> based on the answer to a question
[01:04] <knome> so one poll, but a landing page and two branches ;)
[01:05] <elfy> not sure I understand how you can make 1 question deal with the 3 alternatives
[01:05] <knome> lol
[01:05] <knome> what's the third alternative?
[01:06] <knome> trollface?
[01:06] <elfy> yea - used it
[01:06] <elfy> yea - used it - this is just a joke surely
[01:06] <knome> :P
[01:06] <elfy> this is just a joke surely - I used this
[01:07] <knome> you are being too confusing :P
[01:07] <elfy> no I'm not
[01:07] <knome> well it's probably not helping it's 3am...
[01:07] <elfy> you're just assuming that people like gmb :D
[01:07] <elfy> hah
[01:07] <knome> oh, you mean that part of the poll
[01:08] <elfy> so - another day to carry on then :)
[01:08] <knome> i was talking about the branching new and old users :D
[01:08] <knome> you were clearly talking about the poll we have laid out now
[01:08] <knome> or am i still misunderstanding...
[01:09] <elfy> sorry - there are 2 main branches to poll - Xubuntu is new/Xubuntu is old hat
[01:09] <knome> yep
[01:09] <elfy> been a long day
[01:09] <knome> now you make sense :D
[01:10] <elfy> :)
[01:11] <elfy> as you say - time is marching on, we've actually got a while to sort this out, just need the base link for slideshow
[01:12] <knome> yep
[01:12] <knome> and i'll sort that out once i start poking on the slideshow
[01:12] <knome> and fwiw, current MP's are ok
[01:12] <knome> i'll manually figure them out
[01:14] <elfy> knome: ok - I think mine looks good word wise, just the link to sort
[01:14] <elfy> I'd like a look at the complete mp once you're sorted too :)
[01:15] <knome> i'll probably merge it all, then push to the main branch
[01:15] <knome> and then we can keep on fixing that as needed
[01:15] <knome> but i'll see if i do a temporary push to a personal LP branch, can link that to you if i do
[01:16] <elfy> k
[01:16] <knome> guess i'll also have to figure out who's going to do the upload, and when
[01:16] <knome> for UI freeze
[01:17] <knome> and same for strings
[06:43] <Unit193> cyphermox: Hey, since you were involved with the last console-setup merge, do you know why it does 'initramfs-tools (>= 0.85eubuntu12)' rather than 'initramfs-tools (>= 0.85eubuntu12) | linux-initramfs-tool'?
[09:15] <brainvvash> bluesabre, can you confirm https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324120 ? in xubuntu without KDE
[09:17] <brainvvash> bluesabre, restarting xfsettingsd after the relog seems to restore the correct (non default) cursor
[12:08] <GridNet> all translations that where pending are approved
[12:09] <bluesabre> knome: what do you need me to upload, and when?
[12:09] <krytarik> GridNet: Lovely.
[12:09] <bluesabre> ochosi: want to sync the icons and add the latest greybird patch?
[12:10] <bluesabre> (that last one was supposed to be "want me to add the latest greybird patch")
[12:16] <bluesabre> the last comment before mine on this bug amuses me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/1308105
[13:18] <ochosi> bluesabre: indeed, that sounds like a good idea
[13:18] <ochosi> i'll see whether i can quickly fix up some more icons
[13:22] <ochosi> what i would love to look into is the symbolic-encode script
[13:22] <ochosi> but i'm not sure i'll manage that in time
[13:55] <bluesabre> ochosi: just give me a ping when you're ready
[13:56] <bluesabre> need to patch exo for precise today too
[13:56] <bluesabre> probably one of the more annoying bugs we've had :)
[13:57] <ochosi> yeah, but you read that ff 36.0.1 re-introduced the -remote flag?
[13:57] <bluesabre> lol
[13:57] <bluesabre> missed that one
[13:57] <ochosi> obviously we weren't the only ones using that :)
[13:59] <bluesabre> oh, and since thunar 1.6.6 supports gtk3 bookmarks, maybe we want to add some to x-d-s for the common folders?
[14:01] <ochosi> you mean migrate the xdg dirs?
[14:01] <bluesabre> yes
[14:01] <ochosi> tbh i've never dealt with xdg dirs, i thought this is something that is not part of our settings
[14:02] <ochosi> but some xdg script that generates those folders
[14:02] <ochosi> (but i might be wrong there)
[14:02] <bluesabre> not sure
[14:02] <bluesabre> other DEs do have them in their bookmarks by default
[14:02] <bluesabre> so there should be a friendly way to accomplish it
[14:04] <ochosi> i'd guess so
[14:05] <ochosi> atm the file controlling all that is in
[14:05] <ochosi> ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
[14:05] <ochosi> gotta love that duplication in the name
[14:06] <bluesabre> :)
[14:11] <bluesabre> all of these (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1424887) uploaded
[14:12] <ochosi> \o/ nice work bluesabre
[14:13] <bluesabre> now for the rebuilds of everything else
[14:30] <elfy> thanks bluesabre :)
[18:29] <cyphermox> Unit193: because the initramfs-tools Depends is an Ubuntu delta, and we don't really spend the time to support dracut
[18:30] <cyphermox> Unit193: I suppose patches are welcome
[18:31] <cyphermox> (by that I mean, I'll happily sponsor patches if necessary) fwiw, I didn't do the core of the merge, it was done by slangasek. I was asked to do the testing and upload
[19:48] <Unit193> cyphermox: Right, saw that but figured you might know anywho.  I was planning on bugging the kernel team to fix the kernels depends because the kernels clearly work with dracut (tried it last night.)  I'd love it if we could at least get it installable this or next cycle, even if not supported.  (I was looking at Bug #1109029 again. :P )
[21:49] <knome> bluesabre, i'll tell you when i've things prepared :)
[22:23] <cyphermox> Unit193: fair enough
[22:23] <Unit193> (Newer console-setup was actually the only real thing that was pending.)
[22:23] <cyphermox> just let me know if you need things sponsored
[22:24] <cyphermox> yeah, it may be part of the reason why it was merged
[22:24] <cyphermox> ie. initramfs
[22:24] <Unit193> Well, there'd be a lot of smaller changes, and likely a bigger one in plymouth.
[22:25] <cyphermox> really?
[22:26] <cyphermox> have you also looked at the comments from Adam and Dimitri? it's quite relevant that some of these maybe ought to be fixed in Debian and synced/merged back into Ubuntu
[22:30] <Unit193> Yes I did, and 'tis why I said plymouth *may* need changes.  The kernel doesn't as the initrd shouldn't have been bootable last night, and it had all the needed modules (I listed before rebooting.)  dracut is installable and usable in Debian as-is, it's "mainly" the alt dep missing for things.  I read the last comment, then looked at the Debian bug tracker if it was ever reported, it was and turns
[22:30] <Unit193> out there is a real reason to conflict.  Also, thanks for being open to discussing the topic at all! :)
[22:39] <Unit193> http://paste.debian.net/hidden/a09961a4/ nice, all due to plymouth apart from /etc/system-release and /usr/share/pixmaps/system-logo-white.png \o/
[22:39] <cyphermox> well, the only reason you need an alt depend on console-setup is because we add the depends on initramfs-tools
[22:40] <Unit193> Right, and before it didn't have setupcon.
[22:41] <cyphermox> it has had setupcon for a while now
[22:41] <cyphermox> hm, looks like dracut will need changes to know plymouth is in a different location, not the other way around
[22:42] <Unit193> !find plymouth-populate-initrd vivid
[22:42] <Unit193> !find plymouth-populate-initrd unstable
[22:42] <Unit193> Hah.
[22:43] <Unit193> Anywho, I'll see if I can get a local package with plymouth working as well, then test in an encrypted lvm just to confirm there as well.
[23:11] <knome> bluesabre, ping-a-ling
[23:12] <knome> bluesabre, here's something you should look at: http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/colorschemes/ (READMEs per directory)
[23:12] <knome> bluesabre, i can do MPs once we know where we want them; xubuntu-default-settings or xubuntu-artwork; or both
[23:13] <knome> bluesabre, and it looks like we're not touching mousepad default conf for xubuntu... we might want to start doing that.
[23:16] <knome> bluesabre, we also seem to be shipping a .Xdefaults file in x-d-s file, but it only seems to have xscreensaver options... we might want to drop that... and same with .xscreensaver
[23:18] <knome> Unit193, since you might be involved with the packaging, see ^
[23:23] <ochosi> hey knome
[23:23] <knome> hey ochosi
[23:23] <ochosi> just saw the colorschemes ping
[23:24] <ochosi> and yeah, i second that, let's fiddle with mousepad's config
[23:24] <ochosi> e.g. set search mode to both by default
[23:24] <ochosi> that would also fix a bug
[23:24] <knome> yep
[23:24] <knome> and make sure the font is the same as in the terminal if it isn't already :)
[23:24] <ochosi> it doesn't use xfconf though, so we might need a gschema file
[23:24] <ochosi> bluesabre will likely know how that works
[23:25] <knome> sure... i've stopped worrying about it now, it's passed on to other people :)
[23:27] <ochosi> wait
[23:28] <ochosi> that is actually wrong
[23:28] <ochosi> it seems like we'll be shipping mousepad 0.4.0 with gtk3
[23:28] <knome> well, have fun with that :)
[23:28] <ochosi> so the correct path would be gtksourceview-3.0
[23:28] <knome> aiui, 2.0 themes should work with both 2 and 3
[23:29] <knome> but, you should test it in vivid with the new mousepad installed..
[23:30] <ochosi> right
[23:30] <ochosi> with 3.0 it definitely works in vivid with the new mousepad
[23:30] <knome> this is exactly why i didn't jump into it and make aMP :)
[23:30] <ochosi> that's what i'm testing right now
[23:30] <ochosi> nope, 2.0 doesn't work
[23:30] <knome> then put to 3.0
[23:31] <knome> the conf file itself has the same syntax
[23:31] <ochosi> nice work though, i like the bright theme a lot
[23:31] <knome> thanks, and glad that you like it
[23:31] <knome> i've been using the dark variant for a while now and it works at least for my purposes
[23:32] <knome> the terminal schemes have basically the same colors plus some more
[23:32] <knome> there the light variant is... a bit meh
[23:32] <knome> at least with my irssi theme :)
[23:32] <ochosi> right
[23:32] <knome> but it works fine enough with htop
[23:32] <ochosi> i'll give that a try now
[23:32] <knome> i guess there's always things on terminals that aren't going to work with some setup
[23:34] <ochosi> yeah, i guess so
[23:34] <ochosi> well also, irssi is a bit particular
[23:34] <ochosi> since it has its own colorschemes/themes
[23:34] <knome> yep
[23:34] <ochosi> and making a terminal theme that works with any give irssi theme is just... impossible.
[23:34] <knome> that's why i'm not worrying too much my very customised theme not working with it...
[23:35] <knome> it actually would work if i switched black/white colors
[23:35] <knome> but that's probably not expected
[23:35] <knome> and other light themes do not do it either
[23:35] <knome> soooo...
[23:35] <ochosi> humm
[23:35] <knome> humm?
[23:36] <ochosi> i guess i'm too used to solarized with irssi
[23:36] <knome> heh
[23:36] <ochosi> other than that i guess it'd work well
[23:36] <knome> with *your irssi theme*
[23:36] <ochosi> obviously :)
[23:36] <knome> because i'm sure my theme is completely different
[23:36] <ochosi> but maybe i'll keep this for a bit, just to tr
[23:36] <ochosi> y
[23:36] <knome> yep
[23:36] <knome> mostly that it works with all terminal apps you use
[23:37] <ochosi> which arent many
[23:37] <knome> yep
[23:37] <knome> i guess i use irssi, ls, htop
[23:37] <knome> something like that
[23:37] <ochosi> vim
[23:37] <knome> nano
[23:37] <knome> but that's like black and white by default i think
[23:37] <ochosi> depends on source highlighting
[23:38] <knome> actually i don't think my nano does any highlighting
[23:38] <knome> :)


[01:01] <amigamagic> knome I noticed that thunar in my configuration is very slow to browse a windows share but... if I fill in the address bar of thunar with something like smb://192.168.xxx.xxx then it's very very fast.
[01:01] <amigamagic> is slow when the path is smb://name-of-my-pc
[01:02] <amigamagic> it happens only to me?
[01:02] <knome> who knows?
[01:02] <amigamagic> you don't use samba shares?
[01:02] <knome> nope, i don't have windows machines here
[01:03] <amigamagic> ok
[01:03] <SirLagz> amigamagic: probably something to do with netbios names lookups... at a guess
[01:04] <amigamagic> SirLagz, it's as thunar try to rescan all the lan for a windows share, whenever I go inside an smb path
[01:05] <SirLagz> amigamagic: how many windows machines do you have ?
[01:05] <amigamagic> 1
[01:05] <amigamagic> and another 1 with linux
[01:05] <amigamagic> plus 2 vmware machines with linux
[01:06] <amigamagic> but the windows machine is only one
[01:06] <amigamagic> maybe thunar rescan all the ip addresses from 192.168.x.1 to 192.168.x.255 to find a window share
[01:07] <SirLagz> it's probably doing a NetBIOS name request, waiting for it to timeout, then falling back to hostname
[01:07] <SirLagz> that's my guess
[01:08] <amigamagic> that it's possible, but after much time it finds the name of the windows p
[01:08] <amigamagic> pc
[01:11] <amigamagic> but another strange thing is that on the vmware machine thunar is faster in exploring the windows shares. It's not fast as it should be, but it's usable.
[01:11] <amigamagic> on a real PC with xubuntu, instead, thunar takes too much time to resolve the name of the windows machine
[01:12] <amigamagic> so, maybe the particular ethernet driver is involved too...
[01:12] <amigamagic> maybe there are some driver that are slower than others to respond to certain requests?
[01:15] <amigamagic> the PC on which I installed xubuntu is a machine with a recent intel chipset, so maybe its drivers are a little raw
[01:19] <juanmontoya> maybe I can't help any further, amigamagic but *if* avahi-daemon is involved *and* it is consuming a lot of processor, then it is a bug that is not yet fixed I encountered before and still has no solution.
[01:20] <juanmontoya> open the task manager and check if avahi is too hungry...
[01:20] <amigamagic> ok now I will check... Let me power on the ubuntu machine...
[01:21] <juanmontoya> In my case, that service, out of nothing, slowed down the entire machine for no reason at all
[01:25] <amigamagic> no, avahi-daemon is always at 0%
[01:25] <amigamagic> maybe one time I've seen it at 1%
[01:25] <SirLagz> amigamagic: have you checked the thunar configuration between both machines ?
[01:25] <amigamagic> mmmh... I don't remember I changed something in thunar... Where I could check?
[01:28] <juanmontoya> well then, I give up. Blaming avahi-daemon was the last possibility I could think of, amigamagic
[01:30] <amigamagic> now thunar is completely hanged and doesn't want to open my windows shares anymore... :P
[01:31] <SirLagz> amigamagic: then don't ? :P
[01:31] <amigamagic> oooh... After 7-8 minutes, finally appeared my windows shares.... :D
[01:34] <juanmontoya> if it's about sharing files between windows and linux, I use an ftp server on the linux machine and install some ftp client on the windows machine... samba is trouble
[01:37] <amigamagic> juanmontoya, I have some ubuntu machines with 12.04 that are very fast when they have to access to samba shares...
[01:38] <amigamagic> anyway, thank you for your suggestions :)
[01:39] <juanmontoya> ^^
[03:38] <Artemis3> juanmontoya, that is quite redundant. If you simply install the ssh server you point filezilla using the ssh network to achieve the same.
[05:30] <xubuntu509> just installed the latest any hang ups i should exspect?
[06:01] <abhra> hi, installed and updated xubuntu 14.04 beta
[06:09] <abhra> having a little problem with huawei E355 modem.could use as a wifi hotspot but not working as a wired connection. in ubuntu 12.04 with 3.8 kernel (raring lts backport), it worked. otherwise, the wired connection mode does not work with anyother kernel. any help for xubuntu 14.04 will be appreciated. one way to work it in linux mint, xubuntu 13.10 is mentioned here http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=148990
[06:10] <delt> Why am i getting tons of these messages in my kernel log? ---> "lo: Disabled Privacy Extensions"
[06:21] <cfhowlett> abhra 14.04 support = #ubuntu+1    channel
[06:25] <abhra> cfhowlett, thank you
[07:23] <delt> Theres'
[07:23] <delt> oops
[07:23] <delt> there's a glitch with the mouse cursor theme when logging out and back in... the default cursors are showing in some places ie. the desktop background, and the top panel
[07:24] <delt> whereas when auto-logged in, only the selected mouse cursors are showed.
[07:55] <jayslaven> how can i mark a jar file as exectable in xubuntu 13:10
[07:56] <bazhang> jayslaven, please dont crosspost in multiple ubuntu channels
[07:57] <jayslaven> ok. i would like some help plz though
[07:57] <jayslaven> chmod +x minecraft.jar doesnt work
[07:58] <koegs> http://askubuntu.com/questions/101746/how-can-i-execute-a-jar-file-from-the-terminal
[07:59] <jayslaven> doesnt help
[07:59] <jayslaven> because on ubuntu it does it straight out of the box
[08:00] <koegs> java -jar <file> will most certainly work
[08:00] <jayslaven> will i have to do that everytime i start it up
[08:01] <jayslaven> unable to access
[08:01] <jayslaven> its on the desktop and i did "cd Desktop" then i type in java -jar minecraft.jar and it doesnt load
[08:02] <jayslaven> oh
[08:02] <jayslaven> its caps lock sensitive
[08:02] <bazhang> tab complete it
[08:02] <jayslaven> so do i have to type in java -jar Minecraft.jar everytime i want to load it
[08:03] <jayslaven> or can i make a .run or .bash file for it
[08:03] <jayslaven> ?
[08:06] <jayslaven> hahah yes chmod +x Minecraft.jar worked :O
[08:06] <jayslaven> thanks for the help
[08:07] <jayslaven> *brohug*
[08:33] <jayslaven> how can i change the default sound device as i want to use my livechat lx-3000 but its set to my monitors sound device?
[13:41] <superprower> Hey all, can you advise me good graphic-based file manager? I not so long on linux, so it's hard to me to work normal in MC or with "cp/mv" commands. So, i tried default xubuntu, but i doesn't liked it, and i tried krusader, same thing.
[13:42] <amigamagic> xubuntu is not a file manager...
[13:42] <TheSheep> amigamagic: he means thunar
[13:43] <kraut> superprower: nautilius for example is a graphical file manager
[13:43] <TheSheep> superprower: what do you want in a file manager?
[13:43] <superprower> amigamagic, sorry, my bad english, i mean default IN xubuntu.
[13:43] <TheSheep> superprower: why didn
[13:43] <TheSheep> superprower: why didn't you like the default?
[13:43] <baizon> superprower: http://www.tuxarena.com/2011/06/20-file-managers-for-ubuntu/
[13:44] <baizon> superprower: thunar is the default file manager in xubuntu
[13:47] <syllamo> hello
[13:47] <syllamo> need some help please
[13:48] <superprower> Hey, everybody, calm down, let me think first :) first, i need basic vision of preview (of pictures or movies, for example), normal copy/past(thunar regular show's error, but in console everything is OK), and drag-n-drop function, like, move folder to the drive in left side and it will just copy. Thunar can do this only in one drive, so, i need to use copy/past functions. Sorry for bad english, i hope you will understand. And thanks, i will try Na
[13:48] <superprower> utilus.
[13:49] <syllamo> just installed xubuntu 64bit - the live usb has network (wired) but once installed, no network
[13:49] <syllamo> tried a second time - with a fresh download of the image and still the same
[13:50] <syllamo> computer is a dell inspiron 1520 using a b44 nic
[13:50] <amigamagic> superprower, I'm not sure to understand, but I think thunar does all you said...
[13:51] <syllamo> linux mint installed fine as well as ubuntu
[13:52] <superprower> amigamagic, thunar generates a lot of errors while copying something. Just "error of read" or smth like that. And, i cant drag-n-drop file to another drive in "devices" column(of course, device is mounted)
[13:52] <amigamagic> mmh... for the last thing you are right: you cannot move directly something inside the links of devices on the left
[13:53] <amigamagic> for the first thing, I never has such a problem
[13:53] <amigamagic> *has = had
[13:55] <superprower> amigamagic, lol, strange. Just tried to copy the file who was generating errors and it's copied normaly O_o
[13:56] <superprower> Dat aura of community
[13:57] <syllamo> downloading the 12.04 image now and will try that - but why would there be network in the live and not in the install?
[13:58] <amigamagic> superprower, for the devices list on the left, the fact is that on linux devices are not folders you can place something within. You have to mount them. After that, you can bookmark that position in thunar and then you can drag your files on your device without open another window.
[13:59] <superprower> amigamagic, lol, i just turned on the "tree" function or how it will be on english, and it started working
[14:00] <amigamagic> nice :)
[14:01] <superprower> Thx everybody, dat aura of community solved all the problems
[14:02] <amigamagic> thanks to you now I know another thing: the tree view. I had never noticed it... :D
[14:06] <syllamo> ok, I will go with linux mint maya xfce editioin instead
[14:09] <amigamagic> great syllamo: he comes here, asks for something, doesn't wait for someone that could answer him, tell us he will use another distro and quit. I wanted to reply to him but he has quit already...
[16:01] <wrongplace> do I have to get rid of all information in a usb stick to make a bootable unit, or can I disregard that?
[16:02] <wrongplace> theoretically I could leave all previous data in the unit, it shouldnt conflict with the installation or any executable file or path
[16:02] <mzr> wrongplace:  it might be the wrong format, in which case you probably should format
[16:03] <wrongplace> no wrong format, fat32, on a very old laptop
[16:06] <wrongplace> im trying to install xubuntu 13.04 on an old laptop (2000), the bios even has option for "floppy disk", im trying to install from an executable usb stick
[16:06] <wrongplace> will that work?
[16:07] <elfy> wrongplace: well first thing I would do is stop trying to install 13.04 it's EOL
[16:07] <wrongplace> elfy, what might work?
[16:07] <mzr> wrongplace; it might not by default, some old bios won't do that
[16:07] <elfy> I was able to boot from usb with a circa 2000 machine - though it called it a harddrive iirc
[16:07] <wrongplace> will an old 09.04 work?
[16:09] <elfy> wrongplace: no - you need a live one - the only ones that are current are 12.04/12.10/13.10
[16:10] <elfy> but 12.10 is EOL this month - so I'd possibly try the 12.04 - but as far as actually booting it I'm not sure whether it would boot with other data on the stick - I can try for you in a minute or two
[16:11] <elfy> it boots with other data on the stick
[16:11] <elfy> I use unetbootin to get images onto usb sticks
[16:12] <mzr> lili usually works too
[16:12] <GridCube> wrongplace, you probably need PLOP
[16:12] <elfy> GridCube: aah yes - that's it - thanks
[16:13] <elfy> http://xubuntu.org/news/booting-the-xubuntu-usb-image-from-a-cd/
[16:13] <GridCube> from PLOP you get to boot the usb created by any software you fancy.
[16:13] <GridCube> PLOP fits in a floppy
[16:14] <GridCube> also keep in mind that if it is a really old computer its cpu might not have PAE enabled, so you might need a non-PAE kernel
[16:14] <GridCube> the only ubuntu family OS that currently provides nonPAE kernels is Lubuntu
[16:15] <Poisoned_Dragon> Sadly, some Pentium Ms don't have a pae flag despite being pae capable.
[16:15] <GridCube> however once the kernel is installed you can install the xubutnu-desktop over it
[16:15] <GridCube> Poisoned_Dragon, yes, thats why i said not enabled
[16:15] <wrongplace> if i cannot install PLOP in the bios I dont see how is that of any use
[16:15] <wrongplace> for my situation
[16:15] <GridCube> wrongplace, its not for the bios
[16:15] <Poisoned_Dragon> In had to put in a newer Pentium M in a Dell laptop. It was underclocked but ran like a champ.
[16:15] <GridCube> get a floppy or a cd, install plop to it
[16:16] <Poisoned_Dragon> I love plop
[16:16] <GridCube> once you boot from the floppy with plop a menu will let you boot to any other media
[16:16] <wrongplace> floppy??
[16:16] <wrongplace> i dont have any floppy
[16:16] <wrongplace> drive
[16:16] <Poisoned_Dragon> fine, CD
[16:16] <GridCube> ok, cd
[16:16] <GridCube> or even an hd
[16:16] <Poisoned_Dragon> ^
[16:17] <wrongplace> ill have to get a cd, the laptop cannot boot from a usb stick
[16:17] <GridCube> wrongplace, thats why you need PLOP
[16:17] <Poisoned_Dragon> I had a russian xubuntu based os that used plop as the boot loader. Pretty fancy.
[16:17] <Poisoned_Dragon> Oh wait no... It was still grub.
[16:17] <Poisoned_Dragon> But you can select plop from grub
[16:19] <GridCube> if it resides on a lil partition i dont see why it could not be there
[16:22] <wrongplace> ok, so I can butn a CD with PLOP from xubuntu...
[16:25] <Poisoned_Dragon> yes
[16:25] <Poisoned_Dragon> use xfburn to burn the plop iso to CD
[16:26] <wrongplace> how do I burn a zip file?
[16:27] <GridCube> wrongplace, unzip it first
[16:27] <Poisoned_Dragon> no, you extract the iso from the zip
[16:27] <GridCube> there is an iso inside
[16:27]  * Poisoned_Dragon facepalms.
[16:27] <GridCube> ... i believe this should not be explained...
[16:27] <wrongplace> yes
[16:27] <wrongplace> there a re a bunch of files and an iso file
[16:27] <GridCube> wrong once you have the iso, use xfburn to burn the iso
[16:28] <wrongplace> GridCube, im a noob burning things
[16:29] <GridCube> wrongplace, open xfburn, "burn image", select the iso file you decompressed, burn it to the cd in the cd-rom tray
[16:37] <recon_lap> got a quick question about 14.04 , when is it officially released, and if I download it now can it change before it's officially released?
[16:38] <baizon> recon_lap: tomorrow, you can download the beta2 or the daily and it will automatically upgrade to the final version
[16:38] <baizon> no, sorry in 2 days :D
[16:38] <GridCube> recon_lap, now we are doing the RC tests, its higly recomendated that you do them to give us a hand
[16:39] <baizon> i thought its Wednesday
[16:39] <wrongplace> thanks
[16:39] <GridCube> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/314/builds/66757/testcases  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/314/builds/66758/testcases
[16:39] <recon_lap> ok, so i guess it can change. Think I'll wait for the finished one.
[16:40] <GridCube> recon_lap, the release candidate is pretty much identical to the oficial release :P installing now and finding if everything works properly helps us a lot
[16:41] <wrongplace> does anybody here a computer made in 2000?
[16:41] <wrongplace> use a*
[16:42] <recon_lap> wrongplace: well, I got one setup in the local makerspace. it's one of the machines due an update
[16:42] <recon_lap> wrongplace: it's a Pentium 1.2GHz . not sure of the exact year
[16:43] <wrongplace> a member of my family decided to turn to xubuntu and provided this old laptop...
[16:45] <recon_lap> wrongplace: can't think why it would not work ok for light use.
[16:45] <wrongplace> recon_lap, too old kernel
[16:46] <recon_lap> wrongplace: did you try it out?
[16:47] <wrongplace> obviously
[17:00] <recon_lap> GridCube: I'll get the RC on Wednesday and try it out on the old machine. I'll check in here for the proper link for the download before I get the iso
[17:01] <GridCube> recon_lap, :) thanks, contact elfy  if you need anything he is in charge of our QA
[17:10] <elfy> recon_lap: the link shouldn't change - even if there are respins - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/314/builds
[17:12] <recon_lap> elfy: thx, I'll give it a try on Wednesday. I'll be doing a full install on an really old machine.
[17:13] <elfy> excellent - that's what we need - real hardware results :)
[18:30] <xubuntu249> hi
[18:30] <xubuntu249> I'm going to switch to xfce for my next linux install
[18:31] <xubuntu249> I'm trying to understand the differences between xubuntu and ubuntu + xfce
[18:31] <bekks> basically, there is none.
[18:31] <pleia2> xubuntu is a full operating system that ships with a default theme, default applications and other things that are different from Ubuntu
[18:32] <pleia2> so you get The Gimp, Gnome office rather than LibreOffice, and a bunch of other things
[18:32] <pleia2> login screen looks different, etc
[18:34] <xubuntu249> Do updates come directly from ubuntu repositories?  Or are they gradually brought into xubuntu repositories (the same way that ubuntu pulls from debian)?
[18:35] <bekks> there are no "xubuntu repositories".
[18:36] <xubuntu249> I noticed that the xubuntu LTS support is 3-years, whereas ubuntu LTS support is 5-years.  But if there are no xubuntu repositories, maybe xubuntu 14.04 will effectively be protected for 5 years?  Or am I missing something?
[18:37] <bekks> You are missing something ;)
[18:37] <bekks> Xubuntu LTS is supported for 3 years, Ubuntu LTS is supported for 5 years. They share the same repos.
[18:37] <knome> xubuntu249, the xubuntu-specific packages are supported for 3 years, anything that is common with ubuntu is supported for 5 years
[18:38] <xubuntu249> as long as I'm getting kernel and firefox updates for 5 years, I'm comfortable with that  :-)
[18:42] <xubuntu249> knome, can we put the more detailed support info on xubuntu's FAQ's webpage? I can't be the first one to wonder about that.
[19:00] <NoUse> join #ubuntu
[19:02] <Krenair> I'm trying to add an item to the development submenu in the applications menu. But when I fill out the 'New item' form in alacarte and press OK, nothing happens
[19:31] <delt> Hello
[19:31] <delt> question: is there a package that provides native VNC support to Xorg? As opposed to a program like x0vncserver that continually polls the frame buffer?
[19:31] <delt> i downloaded "tigerVNC" from sourceforge, but the source code won't build :/
[19:32] <delt> ...and the binary linux package contains a module in the form of libvnc.la ...which X doesn't seem to be able to load
[19:33] <holstein> delt: i was just using x11vnc.. but there are many options
[19:33] <holstein> delt: no need to download anything from sourceforge.. there are many options in the default repos
[19:39] <xubuntunewbieeee> hey - anyone around?
[19:39] <knome> xubuntunewbieeee, ask your question and find out
[19:39] <xubuntunewbieeee> ;)
[19:40] <xubuntunewbieeee> trying to install xubuntu on an Eee PC Seashell
[19:40] <xubuntunewbieeee> just installing now on the live distro, but so far it hasnt detected the sound
[19:40] <xubuntunewbieeee> ive done a little googling, but it hasnt really helped much
[19:41] <holstein> !audio
[19:41] <holstein> xubuntunewbieeee: i would just install, then, look for and apply updates. consider 14.04 if you are not isntalling 14.04
[19:42] <xubuntunewbieeee> the volume applet doesnt show anzthing on the menu when i click it
[19:42] <holstein> xubuntunewbieeee: sure.. the link i gave suggests a few tools.. one of which is, open the terminal and run "aplay -l" to see what the os picks up
[19:42] <xubuntunewbieeee> yeah thats my plan so far holstein - just wondering if there was something i was doing weird
[19:42] <holstein> xubuntunewbieeee: it is likely just a matter of unmuting, or learning to configure something
[19:43] <xubuntunewbieeee> aplay -l shows an intel HDA playback device
[19:43] <xubuntunewbieeee> so it does at least know theres something there
[19:55] <delt> holstein: i'd like something that's native to the X11 server, preferably an extension/module for Xorg
[19:56] <delt> tigervnc seems like it could do the trick, but the binary package only contains a "libvnc.la" ...xorg has no idea what to do with it
[19:57] <delt> and like i said, the source code gives me an error about an undefined symbol or something
[20:12] <holstein> delt: have you tried x11vnc?
[20:19] <delt> holstein: yeah, i guess it would fit my needs... thanks for your advice.
[20:19] <holstein> delt: x was made for running remotely like that, and forwarding sessions
[20:20] <holstein> delt: you'd need to just read up on how all that works, or just use vnc, or freenx or nomachine, or splashtop or teamviewer instead
[20:21] <holstein> tigerVNC is not "native"
[20:47] <xubuntu974> hi does anyone know if xubuntu needs to access hard drive or loads all in memory? trying to do a install of xubuntu with unetbootin using hard disk option and frugal install
[20:56] <David-A> xubuntu974: the live system (cd or usb) does not use the hard-drive (except a swap-partition if it finds one, if I recall correctly). it does not load all in memory, but the parts it needs, from the cd or usb. thus the cd or usb must be connected all the time.
[20:56] <xubuntu974> great thats what i needed thank you
[21:11] <delt> holstein: basically i need to connect from windows and mac computers to my linux/ubuntustudio desktop. what would be the best protocol and software for that?
[21:32] <evanvarvell> .. test..
[21:33] <knome> test fail, question in message not found
[21:35] <bekks> delt: ssh
[21:54] <holstein> delt: "best" is always a matter of opinion and use case..
[21:54] <holstein> delt: i suggested a fairly long list.. nomachine, splashtop, teamviewer.. these are all proprietary cross platform options i suggested for a reason
[21:54] <holstein> delt: i use ssh when possible
[21:57] <holstein> delt: i say, just fire some up and test.. thats what i did, and still do
[21:58] <holstein> if you need local, or forwarding through a firewall, or you want open/foss only, or one server and/or one client on all OS's.. factors that determine what you want
[22:32] <zenlike> hiya
[22:32] <zenlike> anyone here?
[22:32] <TheSheep> no
[22:32] <zenlike> lol
[22:33] <TheSheep> !ask
[22:33] <zenlike> gotcha
[22:33] <zenlike> I am having an issue with my dual monitors after a recent software update
[22:34] <zenlike> My second monitor (connected to the HDMI output of my Nvidia graphics card) is displaying stuff (looks like a desktop) but I can't use it
[22:34] <holstein> zenlike: try the older kernel. you can tap shift from boot, and test the "previous version" kernel.. then, you will know where the issue might be
[22:34] <zenlike> I am using nvidia-current
[22:34] <zenlike> Where in boot would I tap shift?  GRUB?
[22:34] <zenlike> holstein: Where in boot would I tap shift?  GRUB?
[22:34] <holstein> zenlike: to show grub, from boot
[22:34] <holstein> like, from booting the machine, tap shift
[22:35] <zenlike> ohok
[22:35] <zenlike> I'll try
[22:35] <holstein> zenlike: unlesss you are already seeing grub, then, just select the older kernel and ty that
[22:35] <zenlike> Thanks
[22:35] <holstein> try*
[22:35] <holstein> zenlike: this is *not* a fix
[22:35] <zenlike> I'm seeing grub, it's a dual boot
[22:35] <zenlike> Yeah
[22:35] <zenlike> So, what should I be looking for?  To see if problem still exists with the old kernel?
[22:35] <holstein> zenlike: its just for you to help determine what the issue is
[22:36] <zenlike> ok
[22:42] <zenlike> holstein: So, rebooting with *.18 and *.17 kernels seems to produce more or less the same effect.  The screen connected to the HDMI output on my graphics card appears to be at a lower resolution, and still isn't accessible.
[22:42] <zenlike> When I try to access "Display" or "Nvidia Settings" in Settings I get errors ("Cannot access....")
[22:42] <holstein> zenlike: so, its not (likely) the kernel module is not installed, then..
[22:43] <zenlike> holstein: Yep.
[22:43] <holstein> zenlike: you shoudl address why you are getting errors tring to access nvidia's tool
[22:43] <holstein> zenlike: should be "cannot access due to.."
[22:43] <holstein> then, you'll konw you need sudo, or reinstallation.. or whatever
[22:43] <holstein> zenlike: when i have nvidia issues, i usually start by removing the driver, and getting one screen working well.. and go from there
[22:45] <al4> Hi
[22:45] <zenlike> holstein:  Yeah, one screen is working, but nothing I've tried has worked.
[22:45] <holstein> zenlike: ?
[22:45] <holstein> zenlike: you stated it was working before a software upgrade?
[22:45] <zenlike> holstein: Sorry, to clarify: Nothing I've tried will get the other screen to work.
[22:46] <holstein> zenlike: nothing at all, ever? or since the upgrade
[22:46] <zenlike> holstein: Yep, before the software upgrade, I was presumably using noveau since I hadn't deliberately installed nvidia drivers
[22:46] <zenlike> holstein: Everything worked great
[22:46] <zenlike> holstein: Then after the upgrade, when I booted, everything was bricked (black screen / frozen Xubuntu spinny)
[22:46] <holstein> zenlike: so, you did what? updated the system *and* installed the nvidia drivers at the same time?
[22:46] <holstein> zenlike: dont do that..
[22:47] <al4> Anyone know if Xubuntu 14.04 will have XFCE 4.11 ?  4.11 introduces Zoom Desktop, no more need for compiz to zoom!
[22:47] <holstein> zenlike: then, you dont know which did what.. i say, the open drivers were, and would still be working fine.. and the proprietary ones wouldnt have, and are not working fine
[22:47] <holstein> zenlike: what i would do is purge the drivers, and the xorg.conf, and try the open driver again
[22:48] <zenlike> holstein: To clarify, I only installed the nvidia drivers *after* I couldn't get it to boot normally (I used safe mode).
[22:48] <zenlike> holstein: Would sudo apt-get purge -y nvidia* do the trick?  Or is that too "greedy" with the glom?
[22:48] <holstein> !nvidia
[22:48] <holstein> ^ thats what i refer to
[22:49] <zenlike> holstein: Cool
[22:49] <holstein> zenlike: so, the open drivers were fine? then, you had somekind of glitch? where the system wouldnt boot x? then, you installed a proprietary driver to "fix" it
[22:49] <holstein> ?
[22:50] <zenlike> holstein: They worked fine before the system update.
[22:50] <zenlike> holstein: Then, boot didn't work after that.
[22:51] <zenlike> holstein: And yep, I installed the prop. drivers as a "fix"
[22:51] <holstein> zenlike: ok..
[22:51] <holstein> zenlike: undo what you did, and start with booting the older kernels with the open driver
[22:52] <zenlike> holstein: Trying this now, I appreciate your patience and help.
[22:57] <zenlike> holstein: OK, so, without nvidia drivers, when I try to boot in any of the three kernels offered, I get a white screen on the monitor connected to the HDMI out of my graphics card, and the Xubuntu splash screen (frozen) on the one connected directly to my motherboard over VGA
[22:58] <holstein> zenlike: ok.. so, i might start with, is my hardware functional
[22:58] <zenlike> holstein:  OK.  The GFX card specifically?  It seems to work fine on my Windows partition.
[22:59] <holstein> zenlike: thats a good test for it
[23:20] <amigamagic> what's the difference between "xfce session" and "xubuntu session" in the login panel?
[23:21] <holstein> amigamagic: try them and see.. should be xfce vs xubuntu
[23:21] <holstein> like, just plain old default xfce session
[23:21] <amigamagic> I don't see differences apart the icon style
[23:22] <amigamagic> the xfce sessions uses the default tango icons
[23:22] <amigamagic> but other theme settings are unchanged
[23:22] <amigamagic> it's always the greybird theme
[23:23] <holstein> amigamagic: i would think some things are "hard coded" since its xubuntu
[23:23] <holstein> !purexfce
[23:23] <holstein> ^ if you wanted to run more stock xfce or whatever.. though, i havnet tried that link in a while
[23:23] <amigamagic> so what's the point to have a session that it's nearly identical to the other one?
[23:27] <amigamagic> I'm talking of xubuntu 14.04... I didn't try the xfce session in the older releases.
[23:42] <al4> anyone know if XFCE 4.11 will be in Xubuntu 14.04 ?
[23:43] <amigamagic> yes
[23:43] <holstein> al4: its available to try, for free.. you can download it and see what is in it
[23:43] <holstein> !info xfce4 trusty
[23:44] <al4> I tried it. It has the new Zoom feature, you can zoom your entire desktop like in OSX or Compiz Enhanced Zoom Desktop
[23:46] <al4> Zoom feature is amazing, so it would be worth for Xubuntu to have 4.11 oficially... although I understand that 4.11 is considered a development version
[23:46] <amigamagic> I thought zoom was for 4.12
[23:47] <amigamagic> al4, how can you zoom in 4.11?
[23:47] <al4> Yes, but 4.12 is not out yet. The development version of XFCE (4.11) has it and it works just as nicely as the bloatware known as compiz.
[23:47] <al4> Hold down Alt and use your scrollwheel
[23:48] <amigamagic> oooh... nice, it works!
[23:48] <amigamagic> I didn't know...
[23:48] <amigamagic> (I tried on xubuntu 14.04)
[23:49] <al4> No more leaning forward to see something in tiny forts anymore !  Oh so you installed xfce 4.11 from ppa ?
[23:49] <amigamagic> no, xubuntu 14.04 uses 4.11 as default desktop environment
[23:51] <knome> some parts of xfce 4.11.
[23:51] <al4> You are right: http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/xfce/
[23:54] <al4> Anyway, I'll upgrade to 14.04 this week, and thanks to the new Zoom I can uninstall Compiz which will speed up my system!