  Happy Wednesday, and happy Black Cat Appreciation Day! 😁 🐈
[09:29] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH-rPt1ftSo easy
[09:42] <MooDoo> JamesTait: It's also MooDoo is being thick day :(
[09:43] <JamesTait> We all have them, MooDoo. 😉
[09:46] <davmor2> MooDoo: how is that different to any other day ;)
[10:05] <MooDoo> davmor2: shush
[11:15] <davmor2> Just heard Whole lotta love and it instantly took me back to Cheggers Play Pop
[14:13] <nucc1> apt-get upgrade is normally sufficient to get you up to the latest point release if you're on an LTS, right?
[14:14] <nucc1> like someone running 14.04 need not do anything special to be on 14.04.04
[14:16] <davmor2> nucc1: depends if you want the new kernel stack or not
[14:16] <nucc1> yea, don't care about newer kernel
[14:17] <davmor2> nucc1: apt update && apt full-upgrade will update as normal
[14:17] <nucc1> as long as the other packages are up to date, especially on security patches
[14:18] <nucc1> never knew about apt full-upgrade before
[14:18] <davmor2> nucc1: new to 14.04 it is the new apt package
[14:19] <nucc1> curiously, it's trying to install kernel 3.13 for me, when I'm already running 3.18.2
[14:19] <nucc1> errr
[14:19] <davmor2> nucc1: apt update, apt upgrade, apt full-upgrade, apt search, apt policy, apt show
[14:20] <davmor2> and in 16.04 you get apt autoremove and apt autoclean too
[14:20] <nucc1> davmor2: 16.04 will be when we're migrated to PHP7
[14:23] <davmor2>   Candidate: 1:7.0+35ubuntu6
[14:25] <nucc1> huh?
[14:25] <nucc1> i'm assuming that 14.04 doesn't dump php7 on me :)
[14:26] <davmor2> nucc1: what's wrong with 7
[14:29] <nucc1> nothing wrong with 7, but i can't guarantee the appss we're using will work without issue.
[14:29] <nucc1> so need to wait until developers give the green light.
[14:59] <nucc1> davmor2: so it would seem that do-release-upgrade is a bit misleading.
[14:59] <nucc1> the upgrade notification tells me to go to 14.04.1 by using do-release-upgrade, but when i run the command, it wants to take me to 16.04 because that is the current LTS release.
[15:00] <davmor2> nucc1: why it does an upgrade to a newer distro
[15:00] <nucc1> upgrade preferences are set to prefer LTS
[15:00] <nucc1> but that's not what the upgrade notification tells you
[15:00] <nucc1> i should probably file a bug about this.
[15:00] <nucc1> assuming i'm not horribly confused
[15:01] <nucc1> i ahve a snapshot, so i'm going to go ahead with the upgrade to confirm this.
[15:01] <davmor2> nucc1: it possibly was correct at the time of release if you are still on 14.04 rather than 14.04.x
[15:01] <popey> can you screenshot the image?
[15:02] <nucc1> popey: i can screenshot the image when it suggests that i should use do-release-upgrade to install14.04.1
[15:02] <popey> yeah, that would be interesting
[15:02] <nucc1> and also how it appears that the command is actually proposing to take me to 16.04
[15:02] <popey> also, what does "lsb_release -a" say you're on now?
[15:04] <davmor2> nucc1: also can you do sudo apt update && apt list --upgradable | grep do-release-upgrade
[15:09] <nucc1> oddly, after i ran lsb_release -a
[15:09] <nucc1> it now shows 16.04.1 as available
[15:09] <nucc1> let me revert to previous snapshot.
[15:10] <nucc1> btw, lsb_release -a says i'm on 14.04.5
[15:15] <nucc1> sorry davmor2, popey it seems i was reading it wrongly. it actually says 16.04.01
[15:15] <nucc1> somehow i read it as 14.04.01
[15:15] <popey> Huzzah
[15:15] <nucc1> that's what led me to ask if apt-get update was sufficient to get me on 14.04.5
[15:16] <nucc1> because i thought it was telling me i'm still on something before 14.04.1 even after apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[16:03] <diddledan> http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/08/09/howdy-windows-a-six-part-series-about-ubuntu-on-windows-for-linux-com/
[16:27] <diddledan> seems the latest build of windows doesn't like itunes maybe?
[16:28] <diddledan> since uninstalling itunes it is stable where previously I was having bsods
[16:28] <diddledan> have to try reinstalling to see if the symptoms reappear
[16:33] <popey> ho ho
[16:33] <popey> sorry
[16:47] <davmor2> popey: liar
[17:06] <popey> true dat
[17:08] <davmor2> popey: see I knew you weren't sorry about some guy having issue on windows with itune and venting about it in an Ubuntu irc channel ;) Not picking on you or anything diddledan Honest Gov'nor
[17:09] <diddledan> :-p
[17:14] <zmoylan-pi> now... about my os/2 installation... ;-)
[17:18]  * popey hugs his Palm T|X
[18:21] <daftykins> diddledan: perhaps it's the services doing something it doesn't like
[18:23] <davmor2> daftykins: don't try and help him with sensible suggestions, stick with it is the bitter rivalry between apple and microsoft deliberately breaking each others software so you use their services ;)
[18:23] <daftykins> oh the only sensible suggestion is removing it and purging all Apple devices from ownership, sir ;)
[18:23] <daftykins> did you know that iTunes overtook even java to be the most exploited unpatched program on Windows in North America?
[18:26] <daftykins> it's the wrong trousers, Gromit! https://i.imgur.com/sKiw8uV.mp4
[18:33] <diddledan> daftykins: I'm concerned that it appears to be.. Erm.. Excited
[18:33] <diddledan> The animal, I mean
[18:34] <daftykins> from the rear o0
[18:34] <diddledan> I can't really discern the direction. I'm currently on my phone
[18:36] <daftykins> o0
[18:40] <algern-n> hei so something really weird is going on
[18:41] <algern-n> filezilla returns econnrefused from server. yet i can safely connect with putty's psftp
[18:41] <algern-n> put and get objects easily. any ideas as to why?
[18:41] <daftykins> describe this setup in a bit more detail
[18:41] <algern-n> filezilla used to work just fine yesterday and there have been no changes on either the server or the client either
[18:41] <daftykins> what OS on host A and B?
[18:42] <algern-n> server is running ubuntu server and client is windows 10
[18:42] <daftykins> grab WinSCP and try it
[18:43] <algern-n> well really i was hoping that someone hhas encountered the same issue with filezilla
[18:43] <algern-n> since i can just keep to psftp if i want to be using another program
[18:44] <algern-n> but yeah, good idea. thanks. i might just do that sincee winscp is GUI and psftp is just cmd linee
[18:44] <daftykins> yeah i imagined that's what you were after
[18:44] <daftykins> if you're really married to continuing with filezilla, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you'll need to provide some connection logs from both ends
[18:45] <nucc1> filezilla defaults to port 21
[18:45] <nucc1> very likely there is no FTP server running
[18:45] <nucc1> make sure you're connecting to port 22 if you're doing SFTP
[18:47] <nucc1> econrefused is the common string used to indicate that "server is not listening on this port" algern-n
[18:48] <algern-n> oh thanks for the suggestion nucc1
[18:48] <algern-n> i'll see to a ftp server being configured on server
[18:48] <nucc1> avoid configuring an FTP server
[18:48] <algern-n> oh? would you advocate using sftp over ftp?
[18:48] <nucc1> the protocol sucks (but you probably don't care aboutthis) -- it's also insecure.
[18:48] <daftykins> nucc1: that wouldn't explain it suddenly stopping working
[18:49] <daftykins> algern-n: always, FTP is 90s trash
[18:49] <algern-n> aw
[18:49] <nucc1> sftp is a much better and easier to use protocol
[18:49] <algern-n> ok winscp is working just fine on 22. thakns daftykins nucc1 :)
[18:49] <nucc1> daftykins: if he closed filezilla and relaunched it, no surprise if he forgot to select the port while attempting to connect
[18:50] <daftykins> doesn't it work on saved profiles? or make you pick SFTP? i don't use it
[18:50] <nucc1> filezilla is designed for the FTP world, with SFTP bolted on
[18:50] <algern-n> well you say you probably don't care about this and you would probably be right since i've no idea as to how exactly ftp protocol differs from sftp protocol or what ftp protocol *really* is
[18:50] <nucc1> well, use SFTP 100% of the time if you can help it.
[18:51] <nucc1> it's unfortunate that they happen to have similar names.
[18:51] <algern-n> doesn't sftp stand for secure File transfer protocol?
[18:51] <algern-n> :/
[18:51] <daftykins> if these hosts are both on your private home LAN, then there's not really too much to be worried about
[18:51] <daftykins> just to confuse you, there's ftps and sftp :D
[18:51] <nucc1> i'd wager it's SSH file transfer protocol.
[18:52] <daftykins> the former being standard FTP with SSL (still old and not great)
[18:52] <nucc1> FTPS is the secure version of FTP, but it's not in widespread use...
[18:52] <daftykins> yeah it's a mess to set up really, i used to run it for many years
[18:52] <nucc1> contrasted with SFTP which is basically just install openssh-server
[18:53] <algern-n> right right
[18:53] <nucc1> so is filezilla working when you specify port 22?
[18:54] <algern-n> nucc1 it does. however I had opensshserver installed on localhost so it seems peculiar that there'd be no listen on port 21 :/
[18:54] <nucc1> no, it's not peculiar
[18:54] <algern-n> perhaps it hasnt been ocnfigured?
[18:54] <nucc1> SFTP runs on port 22
[18:54] <nucc1> filezilla is just crappy, that it doesn't adjust the port for you when you choose SFTP
[18:54] <algern-n> well yes, I meant why it wouldn't work with simple ftp protocol (port 21) rather than sftp
[18:54] <nucc1> Winscp does this, and pretty much everything else, that's why they can connect just fine with no special effort
[18:54] <nucc1> openssh doesn't talk FTP :)
[18:55] <algern-n> aw
[18:55] <nucc1> you'd need something like vsftpd for that.
[18:55] <algern-n> he should've taken a languages module at uni then =O
[18:55] <nucc1> which is not a recommendation to install it :)
[18:55] <nucc1> he's actually just snobbish
[18:55] <nucc1> only speaks the queen's english
[18:56] <algern-n> patriarchal sexist society man. what is openssh is a woman eh? i mean it does say it's always "open" -_-
[18:56] <daftykins> don't put FTP on a Linux host
[18:56] <daftykins> anyone who does is announcing they have no idea what they're doing
[18:56] <nucc1> not like the peasant ftp daemons out there that carry on like savages speaking broken english
[18:56] <algern-n> aw. so I can carry on not knowing what I am doing without the whole network knowing it. neat
[18:56] <nucc1> i mean, if the entire ubuntu is a woman, why can't tiny openssh be a man?
[18:56] <daftykins> well no because you don't have FTP, you have SFTP
[18:57] <daftykins> !sftp
[18:57] <algern-n> the great ssh clit. tickle it just right and you're in the network 6_6
[18:58] <daftykins> that's wholly inappropriate talk for this channel, don't do it again
[18:58] <daftykins> family friendly at all times
[18:58] <algern-n> !time
[18:58] <algern-n> ok :)
[18:58] <nucc1> when you ever decide to run for political office, i will pull these chat logs
[18:58] <nucc1> and run your campaign to the ground, algern-n
[18:59] <nucc1> :p
[18:59] <algern-n> so I'm wondering if having this client ~ server connection going through a router is detrimental to speed transfer and the speed of the whole network as a whole.
[18:59] <nucc1> no, it's not detrimental to speed.
[19:00] <nucc1> it all depends on the competence of the router at hand, and what kinds of links are both sides of the router.
[19:00] <algern-n> nucc1 you'd be the wikileaks to the hilary democracy train. -_-
[19:00] <nucc1> the mere fact of passing through a router is not a problem.
[19:00] <algern-n> mhm. however consider this for a second
[19:01] <algern-n> if I am to get a network hub to link all computers at hand through (well.. server and client are the ones im interested in atm) would that affect the network in any way?
[19:01] <nucc1> hubs are pretty much extinct.
[19:01] <algern-n> momentarily the top speed i can transfer things is about 1mb/s which seems utter nonsese
[19:02] <algern-n> nonsense *
[19:02] <algern-n> i get more than that downloading p2p
[19:02] <nucc1> your p2p traffic is passing through routers too
[19:02] <nucc1> p2p doesn't imply absence of routers, it implies the absence of intermediary servers.
[19:03] <algern-n> sure I wasn't arguing that
[19:03] <nucc1> many things affect your connection speed, such as QOS policies on devices in the network that mediate you rcommunication.
[19:03] <daftykins> using SFTP will slow down throughput though since it's encrypted
[19:03] <nucc1> well, the CPU can encrypt the payload much faster than you rnetwork can send it
[19:03] <algern-n>  I'm simply saying that I get faster speeds downloading p2p via internet than I get on my local network
[19:03] <daftykins> if you just want to throw files about you'd be better off setting up one end with windows file sharing (aka samba on Linux) and using it that way.
[19:04] <daftykins> nucc1: real world experience disagrees with that
[19:04] <nucc1> daftykins: the thing that slows SFTP is not encryption, it's more protocol overhead.
[19:04] <daftykins> well whatever you want to call it, it's not a good choice if throughput is desired
[19:05] <nucc1> i wish i had time to do some benchmarks
[19:06] <nucc1> sure, it will affect speeds, maybe 10% or something.
[19:06] <daftykins> rubbish
[19:06] <daftykins> i do, i have a 12TB Linux file server right beside me - and i guarantee if i fire it up, SFTP will suck big time compared with just samba over gigabit LAN
[19:06] <nucc1> appreciate if you can do that :)
[19:06] <nucc1> i'm curious.
[19:07] <daftykins> yep will do in a couple
[19:07] <algern-n> samba you say? ok
[19:08] <nucc1> let me see if i can run a test using an ubuntu iso
[19:08] <nucc1> samba or http
[19:08] <nucc1> either one will be fine.
[19:08] <nucc1> iirc, samba has a bit of overhead too.
[19:08] <daftykins> err http would not be a sane 2 way file sharing protocol for between a Windows and Linux host
[19:08] <nucc1> forget about idealness for now
[19:08] <nucc1> we just want to see how much sftp affects throughput
[19:09] <daftykins> no it needs to be appropriate to the task regardless
[19:09] <nucc1> if that is so, then i think you ought to be comparing ftp and sftp, no?
[19:09] <daftykins> http compared with the others would be an apples to oranges comparison
[19:09] <daftykins> not since we just got through bashing FTP into oblivion no, i won't entertain it at all
[19:10] <nucc1> the protocol sucks (from a network admin and security POV), but it's a competent file transfer protocol
[19:10] <daftykins> just no
[19:10] <nucc1> well, lemme not keep you from running the tests
[19:10] <daftykins> only just booting the machine :)
[19:11] <nucc1> i'm downloading ubuntu iso into my VM
[19:11] <daftykins> that's quite a rude move on your part though
[19:11] <nucc1> to test HTTP and SCP.
[19:11] <nucc1> rude move?
[19:11] <daftykins> yeah akin to saying "get on with it"
[19:11] <nucc1> ah, no
[19:11] <nucc1> i just didn't want to keep you arguing and away from running the test
[19:11] <nucc1> sorry about that
[19:12] <nucc1> unless you can multitask lol
[19:12] <daftykins> i don't have to, the computers can ;)
[19:15] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/V5eY3
[19:15] <daftykins> windows -> samba file share vs. WinSCP to the same
[19:16] <daftykins> almost a 4 fold improvement with samba
[19:16] <nucc1> yea
[19:16] <daftykins> as Kryten would say, *smug mode*
[19:17] <nucc1> daftykins: errr no
[19:17] <nucc1> don't run them simultaneously.
[19:17] <daftykins> lol, you're hilarious - btw my birth date isn't yesterday
[19:17] <daftykins> i simply combined both transfers into the same image.
[19:17] <nucc1> he he
[19:18] <nucc1> interesting.
[19:18] <daftykins> it'd also be faster but that RAID volume is geared toward protection of written data right now, in the default config
[19:18] <nucc1> anyway, i think it's just the protocol itself, and not the encryption.
[19:19] <daftykins> lets see, i'll repeat and check top
[19:19] <nucc1> can't remember the name of the project that was aiming to speed up ssh
[19:19] <nucc1> https://mosh.org/
[19:19] <nucc1> i wonder how that one would fare...
[19:20] <daftykins> 40% load from sshd during a single transfer
[19:20] <algern-n> that's neat.
[19:20] <algern-n> ^ imgur link. it's seeing a rabbit racing a turtle rly 6_6
[19:20] <nucc1> the race is not always to the swift :p
[19:21] <nucc1> didn't realise sftp was this bad for perf though.
[19:21] <daftykins> totally depends on the task at hand
[19:21] <daftykins> well, i like to think i don't tell any lies when i make a statement...
[19:22] <daftykins> from what i'm reading mosh can't be used in this way
[19:22] <nucc1> it seems so
[19:23] <nucc1> i need to make a note to play around with mosh one of these days.
[19:23] <algern-n> you're having a laugh....
[19:24] <nucc1> having a laugh?
[19:24] <nucc1> it was interesting info
[19:24] <daftykins> who, and with regard to what?
[19:24] <algern-n> I just bought a keyboard and I need to remap it as it doesn't have the "\" character
[19:24] <algern-n> sorry, I was just surprised and I had this channel opened.
[19:24] <nucc1> but it actually won't change my habits, because Samba is not an option for most of my needs
[19:24] <daftykins> do you also have an enter key that only exists on one row? sounds like you bought a US layout one ;)
[19:25] <nucc1> don't make the mistake of typing your password here though :)
[19:25] <daftykins> nucc1: yeah, horses for courses, always
[19:25] <algern-n> ******* :)
[19:25] <algern-n> daftykins no and yes
[19:25] <algern-n> it doesnt have the single row enter key but it is a usa layout :(
[19:26] <nucc1> btw, daftykins could be that openssh is not leveraging CPU AES instructions... and is doing it all in software...
[19:26] <algern-n> yet it's still better than the previous wired one. it resembled much a type writer in regards to the noise it was making.
[19:27] <algern-n> sorry, i have the habit of going on in tangential thinking which seems a little disorganised.
[19:27] <algern-n> while samba is feasible and preferable for speed of transfer on local network, it wouldn't be of much help if I were to start running on a hosted server
[19:27] <algern-n> would it be fair to assume that?
[19:28] <nucc1> why won't it be an option?
[19:28] <nucc1> it's just that access control is a bit more involved
[19:29] <algern-n> i thought the samba protocol is just over local networks.
[19:30] <algern-n> I do admit i'm more than just a little in over my head. :)
[19:30] <daftykins> nucc1: if it were you'd see at least one core maxxed out surely
[19:31] <daftykins> algern-n: yes i wouldn't run samba over the internet, but i was under the impression you are using both at home
[19:31] <daftykins> the ideal solution depends on the details of the task at hand, which we do not have
[19:31] <algern-n> sure. it was hypothetical
[19:32] <daftykins> have knowledge of, i mean
[19:33] <algern-n> currently I'm  only trying to get magento (ecommerce) installed on a dedicated server and it was taking quite a while to get all archives loaded to the server
[19:33] <nucc1> daftykins: possibly, but if network latency ties into it too, then that might explain why it's only 40%
[19:34] <nucc1> this means there's probably room for some serious optimization.
[19:34] <daftykins> it's on my idle gigabit network...
[19:34] <daftykins> i'm face palming at you big time
[19:34] <nucc1> remember that saying.
[19:34] <nucc1> to fetch data from main memory to a CPU is like fetching food from pluto
[19:34] <nucc1> to fetch from the 1ms network is like going to Andromeda
[19:35] <nucc1> sure, your gigabit network has low latency by human standards, but it's a galaxy away for the CPU.
[19:35] <daftykins> the numbers have already proved my claims, i don't see what you're going to prove with any further finger service :)
[19:35] <nucc1> i'm not doubting your claims, i'm just thinking of explanations
[19:36] <nucc1> what can you think of that will cause the transfer speed to be low, while the CPU is not maxed out?
[19:36] <daftykins> it's already been said
[19:37] <daftykins> i think i'd rather talk to someone who internalises those ramblings :P
[19:38] <nucc1> is your fileserver an x86 or an arm?
[19:39] <daftykins> the former, a proper full PC with an 8 disk RAID6
[19:39] <daftykins> hardware controller, so it's not the RAID slowing anything down in the above
[19:40] <nucc1> running linux?
[19:40] <nucc1> i can't tell what cipher ssh used/uses, but you can use openssl to bench the crypto speed
[19:40] <daftykins> yes, since that was the topic
[19:40] <nucc1> openssl speed -elapsed -evp aes-128-gcm
[19:41] <nucc1> well, that's not a particularly fast cipher.
[19:42] <daftykins> is that the default?
[19:42] <nucc1> i don't think so, but it would be an AES based cipher.
[19:43] <nucc1> lemme see if i can gleam it from openssh config
[19:43] <nucc1> #   Ciphers aes128-ctr,aes192-ctr,aes256-ctr,arcfour256,arcfour128,aes128-cbc,3des-cbc
[19:44] <nucc1> now need to translate that into openssl language
[19:45] <nucc1> easy lol, just picked the first one: openssl speed -elapsed -evp aes-128-ctr
[19:45] <nucc1> assuming that the first cipher is used, we could try that.
[19:45] <daftykins> i feel it's already lost relevance for me now, this topic
[19:46] <nucc1> on my core-i5 desktop, i get 3626303K per second.. which is huge
[19:46] <nucc1> assuming i'm not cross-eyed.
[19:47] <daftykins> for 8KB?
[19:47] <nucc1> 8KB blocks, yes.
[19:47] <nucc1> i think that is 3GB/sec is it not?
[19:48] <daftykins> i only threw an old core 2 duo in this, i'm seeing 361125.21k
[19:48] <nucc1> so that's 361MB/sec
[19:48] <nucc1> which is far more than your gigabit network can handle
[19:48] <nucc1> so i think we can agree that encryption is not the bottleneck
[19:48] <daftykins> no
[19:49] <daftykins> 'cause i'm still not aware for certain what's in use by default
[19:49] <nucc1> you can see this in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[19:49] <nucc1> the list of supported ciphers.
[19:49] <nucc1> if you want, we can bench them all
[19:49] <daftykins> right but we don't know what got negotiated
[19:49] <nucc1> there are ordered by strength.
[19:49] <algern-n> ugh. 21k for 8kb. i should upgrade it.
[19:49] <daftykins> wat
[19:50] <daftykins> what is it?
[19:50] <nucc1> i think the last one on the list is the fastest
[19:50] <nucc1> grep Ciphers /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[19:50] <daftykins> please stop the patronising level, nucc1
[19:50] <algern-n> oh nothing. i just ran nucc1 's openssl speed test and i got discouraged by the little numbers
[19:50] <daftykins> pretty sure it's not #ubuntu-uk-school :P
[19:50] <nucc1> come on man
[19:50] <daftykins> algern-n: yes but what's the hardware it's on?
[19:50] <nucc1> i just don't want to assume too much
[19:51] <algern-n> oh i'm bluhsing merely thinking of it
[19:51] <algern-n> intel atom, enough said
[19:51] <daftykins> spit it out
[19:51] <nucc1> it's not saying you don't know, it's just in case you don't know, there's the answer
[19:51] <daftykins> which one?
[19:51] <daftykins> grep -i model /proc/cpuinfo
[19:51] <daftykins> nucc1: it's irritating.
[19:51] <algern-n> ugh... i think it's a 1.66ghz
[19:51] <algern-n> n model. hold..
[19:52] <daftykins> model is more relevant than clock speed
[19:52] <algern-n> n455
[19:52] <daftykins> clocks are more a measure of opportunity
[19:52] <algern-n> werid. i can access localhost
[19:52] <algern-n> yet when i'm going for localhost/magento it returns error 500
[19:52] <daftykins> we have no idea what you're doing, can't read minds
[19:52] <algern-n> sorry
[19:53] <nucc1> something's wrong causing an error in the web app
[19:53] <nucc1> tail the apache error log perhaps
[19:53] <algern-n> I am trying to install Magento (eCommerce software) on localhost.
[19:53] <algern-n> i've just finished setting permissions for /var/www/html and somehow it won't run it.
[19:53] <daftykins> localhost just means the machine you're on, of which we already know you have a minimum of 2
[19:53] <nucc1> daftykins: interestingly, the second-to-last cipher in the list yields only 683MB/s on my machine.
[19:54] <daftykins> so it's kinda daft to say localhost given we all have a localhost... :P
[19:54] <algern-n> daftykins i mean localhost on server. I'm using putty to work on said n455 server
[19:54] <nucc1> so i think the fastest ciphers are prefered by openssh
[19:54] <daftykins> yeah so call it 'the atom server' perhaps ;)
[19:55] <daftykins> KiTTY has some benefits over PuTTY by the way, like URL parsing if you turn it on
[19:55] <nucc1> me, i just install cygwin
[19:56] <algern-n> i think i'll redownload the software. perhaps there was an error there#
[19:56] <daftykins> very 90s :)
[19:56] <nucc1> tail /var/log/apache2/error.log
[19:56] <nucc1> should tell you why you're getting a 500
[19:57]  * nucc1 goes to water the garden
[21:46] <MooDoo> evening all
[21:46] <daftykins> \o
[22:23] <mapps> ello
[22:36] <diddledan> humble programming book bungle: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/joy-of-coding-book-bundle
[22:38] <mapps> my interets so slow atm:((
[22:38] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/fFo0Y
[22:38] <daftykins> Hitman looks so good
[22:44] <iamkey> [Wed Aug 17 23:42:32.992526 2016] [:error] [pid 16813] [client <IP_ADDRESS>:58945] PHP Fatal error:  Call to undefined function simplexml_load_string() in /var/www/html/magento/$
[22:44] <iamkey> [Wed Aug 17 23:42:32.992635 2016] [:error] [pid 16813] [client <IP_ADDRESS>:58945] PHP Stack trace:
[22:44] <iamkey> that does look neat daftykins. is it run in wine?
[22:51] <diddledan> daftykins: now that folk have wsl running some gui stuff, what about running msoffice in wine in wsl in windows?
[22:53] <diddledan> or maybe run msoffice in wine in wsl in windows in qemu in wsl in windows in virtualbox in <insert host here>?
[22:54] <diddledan> mayeb pop an indirection between the windows in qemu to be windows in qemu in ubuntu in qemu
[22:55] <diddledan> gotta love the speed of emulating an x86 inside an emulated x86 :-p
[22:55] <diddledan> (none of this hardware-virtual nonsense. we want full emulation!)
[22:55] <diddledan> maybe pop a bochs (ppc) emulator running osx tiger
[22:56] <diddledan> an emulated x86 emulating ppc emulating x86 will be killerfast
[22:57] <daftykins> today it's me playing the acronym game
[22:57] <daftykins> i vote - World Surf League
[22:57] <diddledan> women's sexy lingere?
[22:58] <daftykins> just earlier i wondered why my (horrible) OS X vmware VM didn't run, i'd forgotten to patch its' binaries since the reinstall, since the winders 10 upgrade
[22:58] <daftykins> weird you have to mod vmware really to make it run things it's capable of
[22:59] <diddledan> yeah, it's an attempt by vmware to enforce something that apple mandate (seems silly that vmware want to do someone else's legal work for them)
[23:00] <daftykins> Apple would probably block vmware fusion if they didn't comply :<
[23:00] <diddledan> maybe
[23:01] <daftykins> iamkey: no i run an OS my games work in
[23:01] <diddledan> iamkey: he means OS/2 :-p
[23:01] <diddledan> oh wait, that's zmoylan-pi
[23:02] <daftykins> ;D
[23:02] <daftykins> iamkey: you might want to stick to one nickname whilst you're here, so as to not confuse people
[23:02] <diddledan> err. does that suggest I should know who it is?
[23:03] <daftykins> nah
[23:03] <mapps> hmmm what to watch;D
[23:03] <daftykins> new person / lurker
[23:04] <diddledan> lurkio?
[23:04] <iamkey> daftykins network disconnects yet nicks don't ping time out until a little later ;)
[23:05] <diddledan> then use an _ after your name to indicate a second iteration
[23:05] <algern-n> no no, I do it for Aiur.
[23:05] <daftykins> algern-n: which is why you kill your ghost and use appropriate alternative nicknames
[23:05] <algern-n> but Casper is really cool, man. also can you kill ghosts?
[23:05] <algern-n> aren't they like zombies?
[23:05] <diddledan> /nickserv ghost <nick> <password>
[23:06] <daftykins> and that's you ignored
[23:06] <algern-n> toodle-loo
[23:06] <algern-n> thanks dan
[23:14] <daftykins> diddledan: so what was your meaning of WSL thar?
[23:14] <diddledan> windows subsystem for loonecks
[23:15] <daftykins> oic that wotsit
[23:19] <diddledan> wotsits are fowl things
[23:19] <diddledan> foul**
[23:20] <daftykins> i used to get really sad when i'd open a pack and find it'd been torn open in the multipack bag in transit, so they'd all be hard and blech inside :P


[08:38] <pitti> Good morning
[08:41] <didrocks> Guten Tag Her Pitti ;)
[08:42] <didrocks> pitti: did you have a good flight?
[08:42] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:42] <pitti> didrocks: yes, uneventful; slept 3 hours, which is pretty good for my standards in a plane :)
[08:42] <pitti> didrocks: how about you?
[08:43] <didrocks> pitti: good, thanks. Only slept 2 hours :( We arrived one hour in advance, but wait for 30 minutes before the plane can get a gate.
[08:44] <didrocks> still a little bit tired, but less than expected :)
[08:44]  * pitti gets some breakfast
[08:45] <didrocks> enjoy your breakfast
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[09:24] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson! how are you?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> pitti - good thanks. how are you? did you have a good week?
[09:25] <pitti> yes, it was great; still feeling a bit weak (jetlag, lack of sleep in plane, etc.), but that will be fine soon :)
[09:26] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> when did you arrive back?
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[09:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yesterday around noon
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i would probably be quite tired too ;)
[09:27] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson pitti
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:28] <didrocks> hello seb128 :)
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the baby arrived?
[09:28] <seb128> I had no time for IRC during UDS
[09:28] <seb128> hey didrocks
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm ok. we have a baby now :)
[09:28] <seb128> good!
[09:28] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:28] <seb128> everybody doing fine?
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> she arrived on tuesday
[09:28] <seb128> lut pitti
[09:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: congratulations! So I guess you have a reason to be tired, too?
[09:29]  * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
[09:29]  * pitti hugs seb128, too
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> yeah, they're doing ok. had to stay in hospital a couple of days, but they got back home on friday
[09:29]  * seb128 hugs chrisccoulson pitti
[09:29] <pitti> seb128: I tried my 16 hours fasting -- seems to have worked ok
[09:29]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[09:29]  * chrisccoulson hugs pitti and seb128
[09:29]  * didrocks hugs pitti, seb128 and chrisccoulson :)
[09:29] <seb128> pitti, when did you sleep this night?
[09:29]  * seb128 did midnight to 10am
[09:29] <pitti> usually after a trip from US to home it takes me like 4 hours to find some sleep
[09:29] <seb128> still a bit tire
[09:29] <seb128> tired
[09:30] <pitti> yesterday I went to bed at 22:30, and fell asleep after 10 mintues; I woke up at 8:30
[09:30] <seb128> excellent
[09:30] <seb128> well, easy to find sleep
[09:30]  * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
[09:30] <didrocks> 21h15 - 6h45 for me :)
[09:30] <seb128> just don't sleep in the plane
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: but I only slept 3 hours in the plane, so I had good reason to be tired
[09:30] <pitti> didrocks: well
[09:30] <seb128> after skipping a night you usually crash easily
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, yeah, same here
[09:31] <seb128> I didn't sleep much this time in the plane
[09:31] <seb128> I finished my book instead!
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: were you so interested in the movies? :)
[09:31] <didrocks> ah ;)
[09:32] <seb128> no, but I was interested in my book and in being tired enough to sleep later
[09:33] <pitti> seb128: I read the vala tutorial and did some first exercises
[09:34] <pitti> vala is pretty nice, although vastly underdocumented
[09:34] <pitti> I'll fiddle a bit more to get my d-bus example working and then post it to the vala wiki
[09:34] <seb128> ah good
[11:01] <mpt> Where could I find the algorithm that maps a Desktop Menu Specification category <http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html> into an Ubuntu "Applications" menu category?
[11:02] <mpt> e.g. that takes an application with "Category: Network" and puts it in "Internet"
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> mpt - i'm not sure if it's what you are looking for, but the menu structure defined in /etc/xdg/menus has all of that information (about which categories appear in each sub-menu)
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> specifically, applications.menu for the default menu
[11:22] <mpt> chrisccoulson, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> you're welcome
[11:54] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:02] <czajkowski> anyoe seen similar issues using gwibber 2.0 ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/487064
[12:28] <huats> morning
[12:35] <czajkowski> huats: aloha
[12:35] <huats> hey czajkowski
[12:36] <huats> are you ok, not suffering from the jetlatg ?
[12:36] <czajkowski> huats: I'm not too bad thanks, rested yesterday and went to bed last night early. back at work today
[12:36] <huats> ok
[12:37] <czajkowski> huats: congrats on loco council :)
[12:38] <huats> czajkowski, hum... I think I can congrat you too !
[12:38] <huats> :D
[12:39] <czajkowski> :) true
[14:17] <rickspencer3> salut seb128
[14:17] <seb128> lut rickspencer3
[14:17] <seb128> hey tedg
[14:17] <rickspencer3> good morning pitti, ccheney` asac etc...
[14:17] <tedg> Good morning seb128
[14:18] <asac> rickspencer3: hey
[14:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, http://picasaweb.google.com/sdelcroix/FSpot#5407299873207857650
[14:18] <seb128> hey asac
[14:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, upstream f-spot already did the "edit in viewer"
[14:18]  * asac hugs seb128
[14:19] <seb128> he pinged me today about what we need and did it during lunch time apparently
[14:19] <rickspencer3> seb128, seriously?
[14:19] <seb128> said it was trivial to do since the code was already there
[14:19] <rickspencer3> that is awesome
[14:19] <seb128> it just needed to make it available in view mode
[14:19] <rickspencer3> FOSS ftw!
[14:19] <seb128> ;-)
[14:22] <pitti> hey rickspencer3!
[14:22] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[14:22] <rickspencer3> here we go again ;)
[14:23] <pitti> seb128: that sounds like the wrong way? I thought we want the button in eog to "edit in f-spot"?
[14:23] <rickspencer3> pitti, maybe, but we need editability in the view mode anyway
[14:24] <seb128> pitti, f-spot need to be able to edit...
[14:24] <rickspencer3> currently you have to load images into the library to edit them
[14:24] <pitti> seb128: ah, I understand
[14:24] <seb128> then we can add the eog button
[14:24] <pitti> so it's unrelated to that
[14:24] <seb128> not really
[14:24] <seb128> the "add an eog button" is easy
[14:24] <seb128> but if you don't have anything to call from there...
[14:24] <rickspencer3> pitti, well, only in that there would be no point in putting in an "edit" button if f-spot couldn't edit ;)
[14:25] <pitti> MacSlow, seb128: btw, any chance we could make lucid's notify-osd a little less hideously looking by removing the lines?
[14:27] <seb128> pitti, +1
[14:27] <kenvandif> pitti, i think he will want those turned on for a little while
[14:28] <seb128> kenvandif, he wants urgency to be on screen
[14:28] <kenvandif> yeah
[14:28] <seb128> the layout lines are probably of no use
[14:28] <kenvandif> oh...
[14:28] <kenvandif> good point
[14:28] <kenvandif> perhaps those are both enabled by the same debug setting
[14:28] <seb128> kenvandif, hey btw, did you see the f-spot comment?
[14:28] <pitti> it's not that my design-untrained eye will ever report a bug against off-by-one pixels or so
[14:29] <kenvandine> seb128, awesome
[14:29] <seb128> kenvandine, right, which is why we ask now if we could have different level or option or turn layout lines
[14:29] <kenvandine> seb128, i guess he didn't close the bug though (f-spot), i didn't get mail about it
[14:29] <seb128> MacSlow, I agree with pitti, whatever way is easier for you but having a way to have only the colored bar would be nicer
[14:29] <asac> pitti: hi. what is planned work-item wise this cycle? e.g. what improvements to tools etc.
[14:30] <seb128> kenvandine, no, he might still be tweaking
[14:30]  * kenvandine figured it should be trivial
[14:30] <kenvandine> DBO has a patch which lets  you browse all photos in the current directory, even if you didn't specifically open them
[14:30] <seb128> he's also asking for what other changes we need
[14:31] <seb128> or want to get done
[14:31] <seb128> he = sde
[14:31] <asac> oh ... just found a mail about subscribing to work-items.py etc.
[14:31] <seb128> he would welcome design team though about edit mode too
[14:31] <kenvandine> we want him to merge that patch, i will make sure we add it to the bug
[14:31] <seb128> ie how to conciliate browsing and editing
[14:31] <kenvandine> seb128, who is workong on it?
[14:31] <seb128> using sidepane for both
[14:31] <seb128> or having a grid similar to f-spot library
[14:32] <kenvandine> seb128, rickspencer3 also prefers having the browse sidebar on the bottom like eog does it
[14:32] <kenvandine> basically rickspencer3's request was to make it look just like eog :)
[14:32] <pitti> asac: I might add support for using bugs as WIs, but it's not there yet
[14:32] <pitti> asac: thus so far we have whiteboard or wiki page
[14:32] <pitti> asac: I'd rather ask it the other way round: is there something that your team needs/wants urgently?
[14:33] <asac> pitti: ok thanks .... where is that workitems.py thing for the subscription lool asked for?
[14:33] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, right, I'd also like a nicer looking button bar, like in EOG
[14:33] <pitti> asac: it's running on my server, and I set the MAILTO to you now
[14:33] <pitti> asac: i. e. you'll be spammed with "this BP has no work items defined", or "invalid WI status"
[14:33] <rickspencer3> howver, I feel that the editing ability is the requirement, the rest are nice to have
[14:34] <pitti> asac: http://piware.de/bzr/bin/workitems.py
[14:34] <asac> pitti: nothing needed atm. maybe some doc what the current syntax allows in whiteboard (e.g. i know there was ways to assign work items to individual membmers != assignee)
[14:34] <asac> pitti: ok great. let me bookmark it
[14:34] <pitti> asac: doc> right, I need to set that up
[14:34] <pitti> asac: the "assignee" one was mere convention right now ("[asac] do foo")
[14:35] <pitti> asac: once I add a per-assignee report, I'll parse that
[14:35] <asac> pitti: did the mobile team run that script on their own or was the graph generated for them by you too?
[14:35] <pitti> asac: all on my machine so far
[14:36] <asac> ok http://piware.de/workitems/mobile/lucid/report.html
[14:36] <asac> i assume i need to ping you when we are done with work items so you can reset the trend line starting point?
[14:36] <asac> pitti: ?
[14:37] <pitti> asac: exactly
[14:37] <asac> thx
[14:37] <pitti> asac: i. e. I can either trash the DB for a clean start, or just adjust the starting #
[14:37] <asac> right. thx a lot. great service ;)
[14:39] <asac> pitti: one thing i wonder if we can better support it: e.g. we want to do targetting for alpha-2 etc ... is there a way we can make burndowns for those milestones somehow? do you plan to do something like that for desktop team?
[14:41] <pitti> asac: right, that's in fact on my TODO list
[14:41] <pitti> since we all have these three subcycles
[14:43] <asac> good ... so we could use general "spec" milestones, but i guess this needs to be done on a per-work-item base
[14:45] <pitti> asac: for now I only plan to parse spec-level milestones
[14:46] <pitti> asac: as soon as we have support for using bugs, we can of course use WI-level granularity
[14:47] <asac> kk
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, how come apport is outdated in ubuntu? ;-)
[14:48]  * seb128 looks at the versions.html list today
[14:48] <pitti> seb128: ah, I did a new upstream release last Friday to test lp-project-upload
[14:48] <pitti> so it's in fact true :)
[14:49] <seb128> hehe
[14:53] <mannyv> seb128, serialorder here, sorry for all those sync request bugs. I thought since they showed up on piware.de they had failed to autosync for some reason.
[14:53] <seb128> mannyv, hey
[14:53] <seb128> mannyv, no problem, but no, autosync are run manually so not every day
[14:53] <seb128> and we sync from testing by default this cycle
[14:54] <seb128> but usually if a version in ubuntu is coming directly from debian no need to bother
[14:54] <Laney> is anyone processing the -archive queue?
[14:54] <seb128> Laney, I've started doing autosync
[14:54] <seb128> will have a look to sync and new after that
[14:55] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[14:55] <seb128> I expect there is quite some lag after uds
[14:55] <Laney> yes it's huge
[14:55] <Laney> prepare yourself ;)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> according to slashdot their is a large group of people who are technical enough to depend on the gimp, but not technical enough to install new software on their desktop
[14:55] <seb128> I will no clean everything
[14:55] <seb128> but since half of archive admin are on holidays this week I will try to do some
[14:56] <Laney> does autosync also do new packages?
[14:56] <Laney> or is that a separate run
[14:56] <seb128> to be honest I really care about autosyncs catchup and desktop syncs and newing
[14:56] <seb128> I will probably let other things to other people
[14:57] <seb128> there is a different command to run for those
[14:57] <seb128> but I will run it too
[14:57] <Laney> alright
[15:10] <asac> mvo: hi ;) ... did you recover from travel?
[15:10] <asac> mvo: what determines which package gets into software center? is that whatever has a .desktop file?
[15:11] <asac> and ... is there a way to tweak this?
[15:14] <seb128> asac, I guess that's .desktop but there was a spec at uds about listing other things there
[15:15] <Amaranth> hey, people talk here again
[15:15] <Amaranth> oh, right, UDS over :)
[15:15] <seb128> hey Amaranth
[15:15] <Tm_T> Amaranth: nono, go back to sleep
[15:15] <seb128> Amaranth, how are you?
[15:23] <Amaranth> oops, was reading scrollback
[15:23] <Amaranth> seb128: good, did you have a good trip back from texas?
[15:23] <seb128> yes thanks
[15:24] <seb128> I managed to read in the plane and sleep a bit, correspondance was easy to get no need to run, everything went smoothly
[15:24] <Amaranth> lucky
[15:24] <seb128> and I managed to sleep at normal hours yesterday
[15:24] <seb128> so all good
[15:24] <Amaranth> dang, was hoping I could get you guys on US time :)
[15:26] <seb128> Amaranth, so, we need to speed compiz this cycle any plan or hint for that?
[15:26] <seb128> Amaranth, is your version not using the wrapper good to go in lucid?
[15:27] <Amaranth> seb128: well I showed it to upstream and they noticed a small memory leak in the blacklist checking but I've fixed that now
[15:27] <Amaranth> that plus splitting up the packaging more will likely be all the speedup we get
[15:28] <seb128> do you have any clue about how much speed up that will be?
[15:28] <Amaranth> Unless we want to do something crazy like backport the module loading setup from the 0.9 branch (master)
[15:28] <pitti> Amaranth: splitting up packaging> into plugins we enable by default, and an "extra-plugins" kind of pacakge?
[15:29] <Amaranth> Then we will not have to read XML on start
[15:29] <pitti> Amaranth: "crazy" describes the challenge we face well
[15:29] <pitti> Amaranth: we have to cut down desktop startup time by 2/3..
[15:29] <Amaranth> pitti: Well, it would completely change the plugin interface ABI
[15:30] <seb128> well, if we don't get it to run quick enough no compiz by default anymore in lucid
[15:30] <pitti> Amaranth: that alone doesn't scare me at all two weeks after opening a release :)
[15:30] <Amaranth> compositing in general will slow down login time
[15:31] <Amaranth> also it seems kind of silly that we're fighting for a 10 second boot+login then in 10.10 running gnome-shell will change that to 20 seconds
[15:31] <seb128> we never said we would take gnome-shell without any consideration
[15:31] <seb128> we will ponder pro and con before any change
[15:32] <mvo> asac: yes and yes
[15:32] <mvo> asac: mostly recovered anyway
[15:32] <mvo> asac: what do you need in s-c ?
[15:32] <Amaranth> in that case bring on the crazy
[15:32] <seb128> compositing makes things slower but there is no reason to be that slow
[15:33] <Amaranth> I wish we could get upstream releases of 0.9.x faster though :/
[15:33] <seb128> do you have any clue how much difference the new loader will do?
[15:33] <seb128> 0.9 is not on the table for lucid
[15:33] <Amaranth> I know, thus the :(
[15:33] <Amaranth> err, :/
[15:33] <Amaranth> hehe
[15:34] <Amaranth> If 0.9 had come out before karmic release I think it would have been feasible even if karmic didn't actually end up with an 0.9 release
[15:34] <Amaranth> anyway
[15:34] <seb128> what would have a been feasible?
[15:34] <Amaranth> using 0.9/0.10 in lucid
[15:35] <asac> mvo: just saw a mail by bdrung about eclipse on devel-discuss (and tha the wrong package is included in sc)
[15:35] <asac> mvo: maybe you can follow up directly there?
[15:35] <Amaranth> not that it matters now, we'll likely see 0.9 in time to stick it in lucid+1
[15:35] <seb128> Amaranth, it's not in the table even if 0.9 was available next month
[15:35] <seb128> we will not change the compiz codebase in a lts when we have no compiz maintainer
[15:35] <Amaranth> But I have no idea how much time not loading the XML will save, benchmarking compiz is tricky
[15:35] <seb128> robert_ancell will be on oem shift this cycle
[15:36] <seb128> not that you don't do a rocking job there
[15:36] <Amaranth> I'd likely just have to do it and see what bootchart says
[15:36] <seb128> but better to be on the safe side
[15:36] <seb128> what do you suggest doing then?
[15:37] <Amaranth> It has to make some kind of difference though, it freaking loads XML using XPath
[15:37] <seb128> 1- use you ppa version with wrapper changes
[15:37] <seb128> 2- don't install the things we don't use
[15:37] <seb128> 3- look at the new loader?
[15:37] <Amaranth> the changes to drop the wrapper should go into lucid ASAP
[15:37] <seb128> ok
[15:37] <Amaranth> Then once we have an idea on the default settings we can split up the packaging
[15:37] <seb128> are those ready for upload?
[15:37] <seb128> in which case I can have a look to that today or tomorrow
[15:37] <Amaranth> let me build again with the new patch and push
[15:38] <seb128> thanks
[15:38] <seb128> we have an idea of the default settings we want
[15:38] <seb128> we can do the binary change
[15:38] <seb128> we can tweak later if required
[15:39] <Amaranth> although splitting the packaging up is not going to make much of a difference
[15:39] <Amaranth> and will make almost no difference at all if we change the plugin loader to not load XML
[15:40] <seb128> what is taking time if that's not the loader?
[15:41] <seb128> we want to split those anyway so people installing cssm don't get too much crack
[15:41] <Amaranth> the shell script and redirecting existing windows
[15:41] <paul> hey...
[15:41] <seb128> hi paul
[15:42]  * paul wonders if there are any #gwibber people here
[15:42] <seb128> Amaranth, ok, so let's get this wrapper changer as a first step
[15:42] <Amaranth> alright
[15:42] <seb128> paul, talk to kenvandine
[15:42] <Amaranth> should I name the packages compiz-plugins-universe or something?
[15:42] <paul> seb128: cheers :)
[15:42] <seb128> Amaranth, yes
[15:42] <Amaranth> Can't use compiz-plugins-extra because then we'd have compiz-fusion-plugins-extra-extra :)
[15:42] <seb128> universe sounds good
[15:43] <seb128> we already have extras, etc
[15:43] <seb128> right
[15:43] <Amaranth> Ideally we wouldn't use anything from extras but alas
[15:43] <seb128> what do we need from there?
[15:43] <paul> kenvandine: hey, just wondering if you know whether bug 487064 will be a trivial fix or not? (i.e. should I go back to 1.4)
[15:44] <Amaranth> seb128: hmm, I actually can't think of anything
[15:44] <Amaranth> let me check what we load by default again
[15:46] <kenvandine> paul, not sure
[15:46] <kenvandine> i don't think that is happening here
[15:46] <rickspencer3> pitti, nice mail wrt work items, could I ask you to share it with other tech leads to help them get started?
[15:47] <kenvandine> paul, can you run "gwibber-daemon -d" and gwibber in terminals to catch output?
[15:47] <kenvandine> i wonder if it is failing to render something and looping or something crazy
[15:48] <asac> kenvandine: you can reproduce this by scrolling somewhere and hitting reload
[15:48] <kenvandine> paul, also which gwibber theme are you using?
[15:48] <kenvandine> asac, well on reload yes it does do that
[15:48] <kenvandine> which it probably shouldn't
[15:48] <asac> right. so i would expect every refresh to do that oo ;)
[15:49] <kenvandine> but that is different, he says it happens even when it is set to refresh less often
[15:49] <asac> i dont think that reload is technically much different from refresh
[15:49] <asac> hmm
[15:49] <kenvandine> it isn't
[15:49] <kenvandine> no different
[15:49] <asac> ok ... so probably when daemon gets update (which is independent from refresh)
[15:49] <Amaranth> seb128: hehe, we only use plugins-extra for extrawm
[15:49] <asac> it triggers a UI refresh
[15:49] <paul> kenvandine: it's the default
[15:49] <paul> kenvandine: i can try that, yeah
[15:49] <kenvandine> but if he is set to fetch updates every 15m
[15:50] <asac> kenvandine: isnt that fetch update setting the UI trigger time?
[15:50] <Amaranth> seb128: and we don't even set any keybindings in extrawm so it doesn't get used at all
[15:50] <asac> i guess the daemon threads still keep on going as usual?
[15:50] <kenvandine> asac, we should make sure... but it should be the interval the daemon is set to use
[15:51] <Amaranth> seb128: so we can kick that one out to universe entirely
[15:51] <kenvandine> i scrolled mine down a little and left it sitting here and it hasn't moved
[15:51] <kenvandine> but i am sure it will when it updates next
[15:51] <seb128> Amaranth, excellent
[15:51] <kenvandine> asac, paul's bug is that it does that every 10s or so
[15:55] <Amaranth> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth/compiz/no_wrapper is the changes to get rid of the shell script
[15:55] <paul> kenvandine: well, it's not doing it now.. maybe it takes time or some other actions to manifest.
[15:55] <paul> (though, it has done across several restarts before, so i'm confident it's reproducable)
[15:55] <seb128> Amaranth, ok, thanks, will have a look to that in a bit
[15:55] <Amaranth> I don't know if mvo wants to make a karmic branch from the main compiz branch and I was hoping someone would look it over first so I pushed it there instead of the main branch
[15:56] <paul> lets wait 15 min till it does its next fetch of new messages
[15:56] <seb128> mvo, ^ want to do that or should I have a look to those changes?
[15:57] <paul> kenvandine: yes, my problem is it will update the UI pane every 10s or so - no new messages
[15:57] <czajkowski> paul: aloha
[15:58] <paul> czajkowski: [ALOLRA protocol changes to state m1_waiting]
[15:58] <czajkowski> paul: I'm safe from ye lot on freenode :)
[15:58] <paul> czajkowski: ooh, i see you're iLolra on this server ;)
[15:58] <kenvandine> paul, could it be images loading?
[15:58] <paul> kenvandine: it could
[15:59] <kenvandine> so the images loading push everything down as they come in
[15:59] <kenvandine> which is very annoying
[15:59] <Amaranth> Oh, I forgot I also refreshed all the patches so it looks like a lot of changes
[15:59] <kenvandine> but once they are all downloaded it should say put
[15:59] <Amaranth> The only real changes are to the packaging stuff and the 060 patch
[15:59] <paul> kenvandine: its not a push down - its a reset back to the top
[15:59] <kenvandine> ok, so it isn't that
[15:59] <paul> i.e. the scroll slider gets reset to beginning
[16:00] <paul> kenvandine: ok, its not the images loading - i just scrolled down to a point where there were still images to be loaded and they got painted without any scroll-state reset
[16:02] <czajkowski> kenvandine: you got back ok then. tired from a long week ?
[16:02] <kenvandine> yeah :)
[16:02] <kenvandine> and you?
[16:02] <kenvandine> paul, what version of webkit?
[16:02] <mvo> seb128: I planed to look at it, but maybe not today
[16:02] <kenvandine> paul, actually can you post the webkit version to the bug?
[16:02] <czajkowski> yeah 6am yesterday. Was slithgly wrecked, back at work today and no wanting to be here :) 1 hr left though
[16:02] <mvo> Amaranth: I can branch karmic if there is a need for this, not sure, there is some pending stuff, so its probably a good idea
[16:02] <seb128> mvo, ok thanks
[16:02] <paul> kenvandine: sure
[16:02] <kenvandine> czajkowski, i was anxious to get to work... lots of stuff to do now that uds is over :)
[16:03] <czajkowski> kenvandine: I've all my gobby docs downloaded and glanced at them last night and see my name against a good few tasks ;)
[16:03] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:03] <kenvandine> good :)
[16:03] <czajkowski> for lucid I've defiantely got some clear goals and tasks to get through for community
[16:05] <paul> kenvandine: 1.1.10 (webkit)
[16:05] <kenvandine> ok, we have <IP_ADDRESS>-1 in ubuntu
[16:06] <kenvandine> i'll talk to ryan and see if he has ideas
[16:07] <paul> kenvandine: i may update to F12 at some stage, which has 1.1.15
[16:07] <paul> though, that might not be till around christmas..
[16:08] <kenvandine> yeah, but i would like to see if that is the problem
[16:09] <czajkowski> paul: see amazing what hapens when you log and dont just keep whinging on twitter and annoying me :)
[16:10] <kenvandine> :)
[16:10] <paul> kenvandine: ok, i might have an F12 test system i can try (dont use it as dsktop at mo)
[16:10] <paul> czajkowski: indeed
[16:10] <kenvandine> paul, that would actually be great
[16:10] <kenvandine> really help narrow the scope
[16:10] <czajkowski> paul: bugs = fixes :)
[16:10] <kenvandine> that pane is rendered with webkit, so seems most like it would be the culprit
[16:11] <paul> kenvandine: ok, it's happening (but large interval) - nothing in the debug output for either daemon or app
[16:11] <paul> kenvandine: interesting
[16:12] <paul> kenvandine: it handles the scroll state too then?
[16:12] <paul> wait, i might be assuming that
[16:13] <kenvandine> paul, yes... most likely
[16:13] <kenvandine> that could be javascript
[16:17] <paul> kenvandine: ok, seems i need to leave it a while / use it a while
[16:22] <paul> kenvandine: fwiw, it's not leaving 15 minutes between updates
[16:22] <paul> its more like 5
[16:25]  * Ng files bug #487165 and wonders if other people get that without transparent windows and think everything has somehow crashed
[16:34] <mpt> mvo, I found "man apturl"
[16:38] <mvo> mpt: great, I'm not sure if it covers it fully, but it should be good enough to give a overview
[16:39] <mpt> mvo, it gives examples of multiple packages (foo,bar), sections (foo?section=universe), and PPAs
[16:40] <mpt> mvo, in future it would be nice to have a syntax for departments, and a syntax for canned searches
[16:40] <mpt> and apt.ubuntu.com equivalents for all of the above
[16:41] <mvo> mpt: makes sense, could you just mail me about it, I think we can add this trivially
[16:42] <mvo> mpt: the only one I found is "minver=1.0" to ensure the package has the right version
[16:42]  * mvo is away for a bit for lunch
[16:49] <seb128> mvo, still on us time? ;-)
[16:49] <mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=240&rev1=238
[17:08] <mvo> mpt: thanks
[17:09] <mvo> seb128: yes, at least my brain
[17:09] <mpt> mvo, adding those other URLs is v4-type stuff, no need to worry about it now :-)
[17:09]  * mpt -> home
[17:15] <pitti> rickspencer3: can do
[17:33] <paul> kenvandine: bingo - i think i know whats causing the refresh - searches
[17:34] <paul> kenvandine: they seem to get scheduled very frequently at times
[17:34] <paul> (with the general message pane open - not a search specific pane even)
[17:35] <paul> kenvandine: i had a run of 3 updates just there, circa 40s, 7s and 13s apart.
[17:38] <kenvandine> humm
[17:38] <kenvandine> paul, so you have a search stream open right, but you are in the messages pane?
[17:39] <paul> kenvandine: i have some searches defined yes
[17:39]  * kenvandine tries that
[17:39] <paul> kenvandine: there tend to be a few twitter tags i keep an eye on, some on a permanent basis.
[17:39] <paul> (though, i have the searches defined 'globally', ifthat makes sense)
[17:40] <paul> kenvandine: i've 5 searches at the mo
[17:41] <kenvandine> ok, i've reproduced it?
[17:41] <kenvandine> s/?//
[17:41] <paul> w00t :)
[17:41] <kenvandine> paul, can you comment to that affect on the bug?
[17:41] <kenvandine> and i will assign it to myself
[17:41] <kenvandine> this is bad... :)
[17:42] <paul> kenvandine: already did ;)
[17:42] <paul> kenvandine: it's a tad annoying, yes.
[17:42] <paul> (don't get me wrong - gwibber rocks, thanks v much ;) )
[17:42] <paul> kenvandine: also, the general scheduling seems fubar
[17:43] <kenvandine> :)
[17:43] <paul> kenvandine: e.g. even without searches, it's updating every 5 min - though i asked for 15min
[17:43] <kenvandine> paul, i have a fix for that already
[17:43] <kenvandine> :)
[17:43] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:43] <kenvandine> i noticed that after you mentioned it this morning
[17:43] <paul> kenvandine: also, if you happen to be in the general area, it'd be nice if searches got saved.
[17:43] <kenvandine> i have a fix  already
[17:44] <paul> finally, could you reconsider the bug i referred to, which was "Won't Fix" (about not reseting scroll state on reload)
[17:44] <kenvandine> saved searches is a little harder
[17:44] <kenvandine> i think it is planned for 2.1
[17:44] <paul> ok
[17:44] <kenvandine> which bug?
[17:45] <paul> hmm, it's not closed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/327172
[17:53] <kenvandine> paul, thx!
[17:54] <czajkowski> paul: see this was much easier ;)
[17:55] <paul> czajkowski: he ;)
[18:16] <pablin> hi
[18:32] <dobey> pitti, seb128: if either of you are around, do you think bug #487224 is something we could put in an SRU? or is it something we just have to do in lucid at this point?
[18:34] <pitti> dobey: fine for lucid, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal for karmic?
[18:35] <pitti> (btw, your debdiff is broken)
[18:35] <dobey> it is? hrmm
[18:36] <dobey> how is it broken?
[18:38] <pitti> well, it contains a lot of unrelated changes and changelog entries
[18:40] <pitti> dobey: if there's a lot of demand for it, it's small enough to be SRUable; did you see a lot of complaints?
[18:40] <dobey> oh i just attached the .diff.gz from doing debuild
[18:41] <dobey> pitti: not a lot but there is someone wanting us to add an option to hide notifications in ubuntuone-client-applet
[18:41] <dobey> and i was just wondering if notify-osd could just be totally removed for people who don't want notifications
[18:42] <dobey> and i saw gnome-power-manager ubuntu-desktop and update-manager wanted to get removed also
[18:43] <dobey> pitti: is there some special command i need to run to get the diff between the two versions instead?
[18:43] <dobey> this is a new process to me :)
[18:58] <Amaranth> Hrm, mvo says compiz-wrapper is used by KDE
[18:58] <Amaranth> I can't see where
[18:59] <Amaranth> ldm depends on it for some reason though
[18:59] <mac_v> dobey: hi... who is doing the work in implementing the -symbolic icons?
[19:00] <mac_v> or mpt ? ^
[19:01] <dobey> mac_v: which part?
[19:02] <dobey> mac_v: there are several pieces of work that need to be done for it
[19:03] <mac_v> dobey: the rsvg part i guess[code-wise]
[19:04] <dobey> well rsvg is somewhat unmaintained at the moment, so not sure who will do that
[19:05] <dobey> but i think it already supports most all the stuff the symbolics will need
[19:07] <mac_v> dobey: hmm , mainly I like to know the color to be used in the icons , once it is known what color to use , I can convert the icons already present in Karmic and the extra icons that I have already done, there seems to be enthusiasm in the community too regarding these icons , so by Lucid UI freeze we can get a lot more icons done
[19:07] <mac_v> I'd
[19:08] <dobey> mac_v: color to be used? the color will be determined by the gtk+ theme
[19:08] <dobey> mac_v: the svg will need some specific data on the path/group to be "colorized by code" though
[19:08] <mac_v> dobey: so we can use any color in the icons? and the color would just change to the gtk+ defined one? iirc mpt's idea mentioned the use of a specific color
[19:09] <mac_v> if thats not needed then awesome :)
[19:10] <dobey> there was discussion of using a specific color, but we decided it should be an id on the object/group i believe
[19:10] <dobey> tedg: ^^ id on the object/group correct, and not specific color?
[19:10] <tedg> I thought we were going to use CSS named colors.
[19:11] <tedg> The fact that Inkscape doesn't really support them is part of the issue.
[19:11] <mac_v> dobey: thats actually good and kinda bad , if we dont need a specific then less work needed to port the icons... But then how to we use red to show warnings
[19:11] <tedg> So I was thinking that a quick hack would be to replace some specific colors with names.
[19:12] <dobey> mac_v: you just use red to show warnings
[19:12] <dobey> mac_v: the red wouldn't get colored by gtk+
[19:12] <dobey> tedg: ah ok, that makes sense
[19:12] <mac_v> dobey: so those wont be having a -symbolic tag ? ok cool
[19:12] <mac_v> s/tag/name
[19:13] <dobey> well, ideally, the -symbolic names wouldn't need to exist
[19:13] <dobey> but i guess some people want to have the same icons in color in some places, and monochrome in others
[19:13] <dobey> which i am not fond of
[19:13] <dobey> but eh
[19:13] <mac_v> ;)
[19:14] <mac_v> tedg: is there a bug to track this ?
[19:14] <tedg> mac_v: Not that I'm aware of.  A blueprint would probably make more sense.
[19:15] <tedg> There should be one since it had a session at UDS.
[19:15] <tedg> mpt: Is there a blueprint for symbolic icons?
[19:15] <dobey> tedg: kwwii set that session up, so he'd be the one to ask i guess
[19:16] <mac_v> there is a wiki > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SymbolicIcons
[19:17] <dobey> mac_v: i think that's just the notes from the gobby doc for it :)
[19:18] <mac_v> dobey: yup , but i dont think there is a blueprint... I'm searching for one atm
[19:20] <mac_v> dobey: on a different topic > is this something you want to do for Lucid > https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/humanity/+spec/request-ubuntu-one-file-icon
[19:20] <mac_v> Ubuntu can carry a patch I suppose
[19:20] <dobey> mac_v: i don't think we should do that, no
[19:20] <dobey> mac_v: and given our plan for lucid is "allow arbitrary directory syncing" i don't think it fits at all :)
[19:21] <mac_v> either way , is Fine with me :)
[19:25] <dobey> mac_v: then resolving won't fix is the best answer i guess :)
[19:32] <mannyv> in kickstart when i select the leave options there is no shutdown or reboot
[19:32] <mannyv> woops
[19:32] <mannyv> wrong channel
[19:33] <mac_v> dobey: hmm ,regarding the -symbolic names...  there would be a problem if there is not separate symbolic name , otherwise icons which are not meant/designed to be monochrome would end up being rendered monochrome and indistinguishable.
[19:34] <mac_v> BTW , gnome3 seems to being going monochrome too , in the status area
[19:34] <pitti> good night everyone
[19:37] <dobey> mac_v: there wouldn't be a problem. naming != design
[19:37] <dobey> night pitti
[19:40] <mac_v> dobey: hmm , there wouldnt... thats good... I just imagined that if the -symbolic wasnt implemented then if the user switches to the gnome icon theme , the icons which aernt designed to be monochrome , would be turned monochrome... hmm , maybe once the work is done I'd understand how this works better.. :)
[19:42] <dobey> mac_v: the gnome-icon-theme icons wouldn't have the attributes in them (plus it only installs PNGs to the system anyway)
[19:42] <dobey> or well, it will only install PNGs in 2.30 at least
[19:43] <mac_v> dobey: hmm , so this would affect a theme with svgs .. lol... humanity is the only odd one out then.. great :p
[19:44] <dobey> well
[19:44] <dobey> only if the SVGs marked the different paths with the named css colors or whatever
[19:45] <mac_v> ah... got it :)
[19:45] <dobey> but ideally, monochrome stuff wouldn't be part of the icon theme anyway. it would be private SVGs or font characters or cairo code
[19:47] <baptistemm_> someone intertested to package rhythmbox
[19:47] <baptistemm_> 0.12.6
[19:48] <mac_v> baptistemm_: hmm , if i'm not mistaken ... isnt that a -motu topic/question ?
[19:49] <baptistemm_> ah someone already did it
[20:48] <mac_v> tedg: xchat uses a notification area icon , right ?where does xchat get the icon from?
[20:49] <tedg> mac_v: Not sure, probably installs it in /usr/share/pixmaps ?
[20:49] <tedg> Might put it in hicolor as well.
[20:50] <mac_v> doh!.. i was looking only in /usr/share/icons/  !
[20:50] <mac_v> let me check the pixmap icon :)
[20:52] <mac_v> aw, that didnt work :(
[20:59] <seb128> mac_v, /usr/share/xchat-gnome/icons/hicolor/scalable/
[21:00] <mac_v> seb128: hmm , i'm using the regular xchat :( .....
[21:01] <seb128> oh, dunno then
[21:01] <mac_v> didnt like xchat-gnome since it doesnt display the user list ;)
[21:01] <mac_v> in the window
[21:01] <seb128> it does, you just have to click on a button, it doesn't stay on screen though
[21:01] <mac_v> actually , i found that icon a long time back , now i forgot where :(
[21:03] <mac_v> seb128: yeah , thats what i meant... i had to click the button everytime , thats was the only problem , hope kenvandine adds that function ;)
[21:03] <seb128> there is a patch waiting for review doing that
[21:03] <mac_v> s/function/feature
[21:03] <mac_v> seb128: ah , that would be great :)
[21:03] <kenvandine> seb128, it is actually a blocker for their upcoming release
[21:03]  * mac_v not searches for bug to keep track ;)
[21:04] <mac_v> now*
[21:04] <kenvandine> i only noticed because of the patch i submitted was marked as a blocker too
[21:04] <kenvandine> and i looked over their list, they merged mine last week
[21:04] <mac_v> kenvandine: oh.. so that is not possible?
[21:04] <kenvandine> hehe
[21:04] <kenvandine> now?
[21:04] <kenvandine> it will be in the next release yes
[21:04] <seb128> there is active xchat-gnome maintainers?
[21:04] <kenvandine> which i think is real soon
[21:05] <seb128> there has been no tarball for a while now
[21:05] <kenvandine> seb128, apparently
[21:05] <mac_v> kenvandine: ah , thats great :) , any bug number?
[21:05] <kenvandine> they marked 10 or so bugs as blockers and already closed several
[21:05] <kenvandine> mac_v, one sec
[21:05] <seb128> kenvandine, bug #174624 has a debdiff
[21:05] <seb128> could you perhaps comment on it?
[21:06] <seb128> I was going to review it this week
[21:06] <seb128> but if upstream has commited a patch already better to use their version
[21:06] <kenvandine> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323488
[21:07] <mac_v> kenvandine:  thanks :)
[21:07] <kenvandine> blocker for 0.26.2 release
[21:07] <kenvandine> mac_v, np
[21:59] <TheMuso> seb128: Hey there. You had an uneventful trip back?
[21:59] <seb128> TheMuso, hello, yes thanks
[21:59] <seb128> what about you?
[22:00] <TheMuso> seb128: Uneventful as well, its good to be back.
[22:01] <rickspencer3> good morning TheMuso
[22:01] <TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
[22:02] <bratsche> Does anyone here happen to know how gnome-panel and gdm-greeter determine which monitor to use?
[22:02] <dobey> now we might all actually get some work done :)
[22:02] <eeejay> TheMuso, is uneventful the best you could hope for? ;)
[22:03] <dobey> bratsche: i think gnome-panel always uses "bottom left" or something. hence if you put a projector to the left of your laptop screen, and unplug the projector, you lose your panel
[22:04] <dobey> bratsche: of course, i could be wrong :)
[22:05] <bratsche> Well, I've noticed that on my systems gdm-greeter seems to display on monitor #1 for some reason, while everything else seems to happen on #0.  I haven't looked into the gdm-greeter code at all yet, was just curious.
[22:05] <dobey> ah
[22:05] <dobey> maybe it is just 0
[22:06] <bratsche> I wrote a patch for gtk+ to expose API for querying the "primary monitor" from xrandr, but our display preferences util doesn't actually allow you to set the primary monitor so I'm not sure how useful this will be yet.
[22:06] <dobey> i'm not sure gnome-panel does anything special, actually
[22:06] <seb128> gnome-panel uses the primary xrandr monitor I think
[22:06] <bratsche> So I was thinking that if everyone is kind of doing their own thing we could standardize on using the xrandr primary monitor.
[22:07] <seb128> there is a bug open on the GNOME capplet about the "no way to set the primary monitor"
[22:07] <seb128> not sure what gdm does
[22:07] <seb128> but we got bugs similar to yours
[22:07] <dobey> but i'm also happy just having one monitor, i just wish i could get one that was 300dpi
[22:07] <dobey> anyway, it's time for me to call it a day
[22:07] <dobey> later :)
[22:07] <bratsche> Okay cool.. I'll peek into gdm sometime to see what it's doing, and then I'll write to desktop-devel-list about it once I have more info.  Thanks seb128!
[22:07] <bratsche> Later dobey!
[22:08] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #595531
[22:09] <bratsche> hot!
[22:09] <bratsche> seb128: Thanks!
[22:09] <seb128> you're welcome
[22:09] <seb128> the bug is not very useful though
[22:09] <seb128> in any case thanks for working on the issue ;-)
[22:10] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713
[22:10] <bratsche> seb128: Well, I get a shitload of bugs filed against xsplash because you see xsplash on monitor #0, then gdm greeter on #1, then xsplash on #0.. so I would like to fix this properly. :)
[22:11] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one
[22:11] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #564713 is the gnome display capplet one
[22:11] <seb128> ups
[22:11] <seb128> sorry about that
[22:11] <bratsche> :)
[22:11] <TheMuso> eeejay: Pretty much.
[22:11] <seb128> I think there was also a gnome-panel one
[22:11] <seb128> vuntz might know about this one, I don't find it now
[22:12] <seb128> ah
[22:12] <seb128> bratsche, gnome bug #562944
[22:13] <seb128> this one has useful comments
[22:15] <bratsche> Awesome, I added those to my gtk+ so I can track them.
[22:15] <bratsche> *to my gtk+ bug
[22:25] <seb128> hey robert_ancell, had a good trip back?
[22:26] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, made it back in one piece
[22:27] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, you're back, I assumed you would still be on a boat or somethign
[22:27] <rickspencer3> ?
[22:27] <rickspencer3> j/k
[22:27] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I am on a boat.  They have internet at least ;)
[22:27] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[22:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, are you already on eom tasks or still doing desktop this week?
[22:31] <robert_ancell> seb128, still desktop until contacted by oem (as confirmed by Alice).  They are supposed to be contacting me this week
[22:31] <seb128> ok
[22:31] <seb128> good ;-)
[22:32] <seb128> there are still quite some updates and merges to do
[22:32] <seb128> you are welcome to do the gdm 2.29 update and review patches for upstream if you want
[22:32] <bratsche> Hi robert_ancell
[22:33] <robert_ancell> bratsche, hey
[22:33] <TheMuso> Hey robert_ancell.
[22:33] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey hey
[23:00] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, did you see http://blog.reblochon.org/2009/11/unleash-your-f-spot-toolbox.html
[23:01]  * rickspencer3 looks
[23:02] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yes, I saw
[23:02] <rickspencer3> this seems like a great solutin
[23:03] <robert_ancell> yeah if the startup time can be improved then this would be great
[23:03] <rickspencer3> in the meantime, seems many people are deeply concerned about the set of people who are technical enough to need Gimp in their distro, but not technical enough to install it
[23:03] <rickspencer3> kudos to Stephane, nice to see someone taking a "can do" approach to a problem
[23:04] <bryce> yeah sweet
[23:04] <bryce> the ui looks spiff too
[23:04] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, we really need the "editors pick" for those people
[23:05] <bryce> although in comparison to gimp, that's not hard *duck*
[23:05] <seb128> still lacks a nice way to get edit options though
[23:05] <seb128> right now it requires displaying the sidebar and changing the mode to edit
[23:06] <rickspencer3> yeah, it should do edit by default
[23:06] <seb128> upstream is open to suggestions on how to do that nicely
[23:06] <rickspencer3> or, would be nice if the edit functions were in a toolbar
[23:06] <seb128> well, default is collection
[23:06] <seb128> ie it lists all the images in the folder
[23:06] <seb128> which some users like too...
[23:06] <rickspencer3> maybe a -edit option
[23:06] <seb128> I like to the toolbar idea
[23:06] <rickspencer3> so if you load it with "edit with f-spot" it defaults one way, and "view with f-spot" defaults the other
[23:07] <seb128> or at least display the edit pane from a toolbar toggle or something
[23:07] <bryce> would you guys like to see something scary?  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg
[23:07] <seb128> urg
[23:07] <bryce> heh, I have to increase my graph boundary limits now
[23:07] <seb128> do you count all bugs or only open ones?
[23:07] <bryce> LOL
[23:08] <bryce> seb128, this is just open bugs
[23:08] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[23:08] <rickspencer3> bryce,  are the new bugs spread out, or do some areas account for more than others
[23:08] <rickspencer3> ?
[23:09] <seb128> it would be interesting to see if all distro follow the same curve
[23:09] <rickspencer3> or at least all packages in Ubuntu
[23:09] <seb128> ie if we have an increasing number of users or if xorg is buggier
[23:09] <bryce> it's fairly well spread
[23:09] <rickspencer3> maybe we *think* x is buggy because bryce is good at measuring it
[23:10] <rickspencer3> if they are spread out evenly, it suggest more users = more bug reports
[23:10] <seb128> my gut feeling is that we would have a similar curve on GNOME
[23:10] <rickspencer3> as apposed to more buggy
[23:10] <seb128> right
[23:10] <seb128> I had the feeling the bug number was increasing on GNOME set too
[23:10] <bryce> I have a suspicion that there may be a kernel patch that broke resolution detection and is causing a lot of bug reports.  I sent the kernel guys an email this morning regarding this.
[23:10] <seb128> but we don't have good tools or metric there
[23:11] <bryce> but it's equally possible that we just have the same old bugs, but now have a lot more users filing them
[23:11]  * rickspencer3 gets back to writing


[23:32] <codic> Damn i've been kicked so much
[23:42] <codic_> It's because I couldn't figure out how to register, lol
[23:49] <fossfreedom> Hmm?


[01:24] <HappyCamp> Anyone know if it hurts to remove "ubuntu-desktop"?  I want to stop that darn trackerd process from running and sucking away my CPU cycles.  If I remove it, it will also remove ubuntu-desktop.
[01:24] <HappyCamp> remove meaning: apt-get remove tracker
[05:55] <scheater5> Ok, I was in here earlier asking about Archos media players.  I have since found out that Archos uses "Davinci Technology" for it's processors, and they are "programmable systems-on-chips (SoCs) tailored from DSP and ARM cores" - does anyone know any more about what that might mean?
[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[07:58] <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir, you on?
[08:55] <sodarock_home> Is Mithrandir awake?
[08:57] <sodarock_home> Mithrandir: any chance that we can push image creator into Gutsy?  It has been a couple weeks since it has been updated, I think.
[08:57] <sodarock_home> I'm off to bed.  Have a good day.
[08:58] <dholbach> sleep tight sodarock_home
[09:02] <sodarock_home> Have a good day dholbach .  Hopefully I'll see you at UDS in Boston.  I'll try to book my flight tomorrow.
[09:03] <dholbach> rock and roll :-)
[01:28] <agoliveira> dholbach: Hi Daniel. Could you take a looks at bugs 138725 and 140845?
[01:29] <ToddBrandt> agoliveira: do you know which file I add to to have a process kick off right at startup?
[01:31] <agoliveira> ToddBrandt: You mean on UME? It deppends on what do you mean by "right at startup". You mean at system, X or user session startup?
[01:31] <ToddBrandt> Where gnome-settings-daemon would normally start up, probably at the C level
[01:31] <ToddBrandt> X level I mean
[01:33] <ToddBrandt> Since I manage the control panel I;ve never had to kick off a master process until now, I've altered gnome-settings-daemon into a smaller, more compact daemon called moblin-settings-daemon
[01:33] <ToddBrandt> It's auto started by the various control panel applets that use it, but I need it to be running right from the start
[01:33] <agoliveira> ToddBrandt: I guess you could use /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc
[01:35] <ToddBrandt> hmm, interesting
[01:35] <kwwii> hi
[01:35] <agoliveira> kwwii: Ok ;)
[01:36] <agoliveira> kwwii: I was talking to Matt yesterday and he wants to have the theme package uploaded ASAP, even if it's not working.
[01:37] <kwwii> agoliveira: ok I will see that it gets uploaded today....do you know how to upload something to launchpad?
[01:38] <agoliveira> You mean via bzr?
[01:40] <kwwii> I mean the first time you upload a package
[01:40] <kwwii> I guess with bzr or such, no idea, never done it :-)
[01:43] <agoliveira> kwwii: The usual way is via sponsorship but as in this case is a new package I guess the things are a bit different. Mithrandir can explaing you better.
[01:51] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: BTW, could you ping me back when you have a few minutes? Thanks.
[02:00] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: hi
[02:00] <Mithrandir> sodarock_home: sure, can do that
[02:00] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hello. Feeling better?
[02:00] <Mithrandir> yes, much so, thanks.
[02:01] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Cool. Yesterday Matt asked me to ask you if you have a timeline for the lpia build (I'm preparing a status report update for him). Do you?
[02:05] <Mithrandir> give me ten minutes and I can give you an estimate, I've spent most of today catching up from the last two days.
[02:07] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: No problem. Also, can you see to upload galculator and evince? bugs 138725 and 140845. I asked Daniel but he seens to be afk.
[02:12] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: best case would be Monday, fairly sure it can happen by next Thursday.
[02:12] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Thanks. I'll add that.
[03:57] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: I'm on my way home now, sorry I didn't get around to getting galculator and evince uploaded.  Can you prod them about them tomorrow if dholbach doesn't get around to them first?
[03:57] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: also, if you could send out the meeting reminder for me today, that'd be swell.
[03:57] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: No problem (2 acounts :) )
[03:57] <Mithrandir> excellent, thanks.
[03:57] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Bye
[03:58] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Rain getting out of a flu doesn't strike me as a good move :(
[04:06] <dholbach> agoliveira: did you file sponsoring bugs for those two?
[04:07] <agoliveira> dholbach: Yes, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/galculator/+bug/138725 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/140845
[04:09] <dholbach> agoliveira: ubuntu-universe-sponsors is not subscribed and ubuntu-main-sponsors not on the other one
[04:09] <dholbach> agoliveira: that way they don't get sponsored
[04:09] <agoliveira> dholbach: Damn... I knew I was forgetting something. You'r right, of course.
[04:10] <agoliveira> dholbach: Done. Better late than never.
[04:10] <dholbach> agoliveira: can you set a different encoding on the galculator patch?
[04:10] <dholbach> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9351646/diff
[04:11] <dholbach> ok changed it myself
[04:11] <agoliveira> dholbach: That's weird... I didn't do anything different but run debdiff
[04:12] <dholbach> yeah, but you have to set the content type in launchpad
[04:12] <agoliveira> What could have caused this?
[04:12] <agoliveira> dholbach: That's new to me.
[04:12] <dholbach> well, I just set it to text/plain from text/html
[04:12] <agoliveira> dholbach: In what moment I should do this?
[04:13] <dholbach> I dunno, I just changed it by clicking on the (edit) link
[04:14] <agoliveira> dholbach: Funny thing is that's the only one. Perhaps I forgot to mark the "this attachment is a patch" option.
[04:15] <dholbach> right, probably that was it
[04:16] <agoliveira> dholbach: Well, I would be surprised if it was gone all right in the first try :)
[04:22] <agoliveira> dholbach: So, how do they look like?  No problem, I just thought you had. Let me know when you do, please.
[04:24] <dholbach> will do
[04:25] <agoliveira> Thanks.
[05:41] <agoliveira> s/sleep/few sleep
[05:41] <agoliveira> (see what I mean?)
[05:55] <ian_brasil> even better is 'little sleep' ...few sleep does not exist!
[06:10] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: The better (or worse) part of it is that I know that :)
[06:11] <ian_brasil> agoliveira: you need a lie down
[06:16] <kwwii> agoliveira: pushing an early version of the theme now
[06:17] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: ...or industrial quantities of coffee the way you know we do here ;)
[06:17] <agoliveira> kwwii: Cool :)
[06:20] <ian_brasil> agoliveira: caramba, be careful...drinking too much of this stuff makes me shake like an epileptic
[06:21] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: It's not our fault if you're grown as a sissy tea drinker :-D
[06:22] <ian_brasil> damn, i've been outed
[06:24] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Don't worry. A few more years here will cure you or you can try the Santo Daime around there for a quick fix ;)
[06:26] <ian_brasil> agoliveira: ha ha...too late , i am already cured of all known western illnesses (apart from laziness , obviously)
[06:27] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: That's something that the Manaus weather won't help you to cure, that's for sure...
[08:31] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, thanks for picking up image-creator!
[08:34] <smagoun> HappyCamp: Thanks for the load/save features in the new MIC. I've tested here + it seems to do exactly what we want!
[08:37] <HappyCamp> smagoun, Glad to hear it works :)  That is always a good feeling.  I don't get that feeling often ;)
[08:38] <smagoun> Now if only there were a "load project" button in the gui for the lazy people here... :) Maybe I can whip that up this afternoon
[08:40] <HappyCamp> smagoun, Feel free.  We appreciate contributions.
[10:05] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: Hi. Have a minute?
[10:09] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, sure
[10:10] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: Nice. How's the MOTU process going?
[10:10] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, not as good as I should be :(
[10:11] <HappyCamp> I need to get my guys to give me stuff to commit.  I sent an email out and none of my guys responded :(
[10:12] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: Actually that's a part of my question. I need to know how's the level of integration between Intel's code and Ubuntu. How's the movement to include this code into Gutsy.
[10:12] <HappyCamp> I think we want to, I just haven't gotten very much movement yet from my guys.  I need to bug them more.
[10:13] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: hold on a sec, please, door bell...
[10:16] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: We really need to improve this. Our time is running *very* short. Can you please poke the people there really hard?
[10:16] <agoliveira> (in the eye, if possible) :)
[10:17] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, I will do that.  Also feel free to post to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to bug them too.
[10:17] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: Good idea. I will.
[10:21] <agoliveira> kinik: Hi Gary. Is Kyle around? He asked for me but I was in a meeting.
[10:26] <kinik> Hi Adilson, he actually left the office just a few minutes ago.  He wasn't feeling well.
[10:30] <kinik> agoliveira: I'll let him know that you checked back.
[10:31] <agoliveira> kinik: I'm about to leave so tell him please that he can email me or poke me tomorrow morning.
[10:31] <kinik> agoliveira: Will do, have a good night.
[10:32] <agoliveira> kinik: Thanks. You too.
[10:46] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: happy to help


[02:35] <Hoyt> Hi , anyone here ?
[02:36] <Hoyt> I received an email captioned "Information needed for QMuttNotifier"
[21:45] <chiatello> Hi, could anyone here give me advice about installing software that isn't in an apt repository?
[21:46] <chiatello> Is there any way to notify apt that you have installed an application from source?
[21:46] <chiatello> so that it could be removed via apt or to avoid conflicts
[22:53] <JanC> chiatello should stay around longer... (yes, that is possible)


[18:44] <jphilips> a twitter user was asking 'I would suggest to remove the synaptics touchpad driver and let libinput take care of it' - https://twitter.com/aquasp1/status/1267561066336223232


[11:18] <zsombi> t1mp: ahayzen: also commented on the bug
[11:19] <zsombi> t1mp: ahayzen: the bug is caused due to the Page being anchor.filled by default to its parent :/
[12:13] <t1mp> zsombi: commented back :)
[12:14] <t1mp> zsombi: the anchors of the Page are not the problem. You would always want the Page to fill its parent, and if you use width, it would be width: parent.width in order to fit the column width.
[13:12] <maokei> anyone present?
[13:13] <maokei> having problems getting the html 5 inspector to work is there any special package needed ?
[13:25] <Inglebard> Hi, anyone here ?
[13:36] <maokei> im here
[13:47] <zsombi> t1mp: it is not the first time we talk about the PAge filling its parent being wrong...
[13:48] <zsombi> t1mp: that lives width to be set to 0 once you reparent it, so it happens in our case
[13:50] <zsombi> t1mp: sure, width: parent withd vs anchors/fill: parent for width is the same in our situation
[13:51] <zsombi> but as said, this is not the first time we run into trouble because of Page auto-filling its parent
[13:51] <zsombi> we had once a workaround for the problem where the solution was to set anchors.fill: undefined in order to set a different anchoring, remember?
[13:52] <zsombi> t1mp: and overriding width is lot easier and "prettyer" than overriding the anchoring...
[13:53] <zsombi> t1mp: but as said, applying a property change when the PAge is moved in the invisible item may help :/
[13:54] <zsombi> t1mp: it's just we must preserve the width/height of the Page before we reparent, and break the anchors so those don't change
[13:54] <zsombi> t1mp: unfortunately we did npt pay too much attention on that, and thanks to ahayzen we now can fix it ;)


[06:51] <nobuto> Hello. Here is pictures at release party Tokyo, Japan last Saturday. http://picasaweb.google.com/106468260551425064278/Ubuntu1010ReleasePartyTokyo#
[06:53] <nigelb> oh, this must be the event Emmet was talking about
[06:59] <nobuto> nigelb: Emmet has missed this event. Unfortunately he thought this event was going to happen on Sunday...
[06:59] <nigelb> nobuto: Ah! He did tell me there was an event on 7th.
[06:59] <nigelb> or was it 6th
[06:59] <nigelb> I'm confused now :)
[07:01] <nobuto> I wrote as 6th, but he misunderstood. http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/508/detail/
[07:02] <nigelb> heh
[07:04] <nobuto> Despite entry fee is high (about $35), about 65 people came. It's a great time.
[07:04] <nigelb> That is great!
[07:05] <nigelb> Did the veune have some sort of fees or the fees was used for the food etc?
[07:05] <YoBoY> good morning
[07:07] <nigelb> morning YoBoY
[07:07] <YoBoY> hi nigelb
[07:07] <YoBoY> great group picture nobuto :)
[07:07] <nobuto> nigelb: fees was used for the food and all you can drink.
[07:08] <nigelb> nobuto: that is totally awesome.  Glad you have awesome venues there :)
[07:08] <YoBoY> with the drinks it's a good price
[07:10] <nobuto> here is the food menu picture. http://www.pub-hub.com/party_hub/
[07:11] <nobuto> The venue has 4 monitors (42 inch) and 2 microphones. It was also suitable for presentations.
[07:14] <olive> http://www.helloubuntu.com/
[07:14] <olive> (japan day)
[07:16] <nobuto> olive: greats!
[07:19]  * YoBoY hugs olive
[07:35] <dholbach> good morning!
[07:39] <YoBoY> bonjour dholbach
[07:39] <dholbach> salut YoBoY
[09:17] <nobuto> I added more pictures on http://picasaweb.google.com/106468260551425064278/Ubuntu1010ReleasePartyTokyo# You can feel the atmosphere.
[09:22] <nigelb> lovely!
[09:22] <nigelb> that cake looks delicious
[12:58] <Adapter> !seen catweazle
[12:58] <ubot4> I have no seen command
[12:59] <nhandler> Adapter: Last seen by NickServ 46 minutes ago (/msg nickserv info catweazle)
[12:59] <Adapter> thx nhandler
[13:45] <nigelb> mhall119: goofy teenage boy!
[13:45] <nigelb> hah
[14:08] <mhall119> nigelb: don't make me fly over there and kick you
[14:08] <mhall119> because I really can't afford it
[14:09] <nigelb> mhall119: hah :D
[14:09] <nigelb> mhall119: Happy Anniversary (of sorts) :)
[14:11] <jpds> I thought mhall119 was 119 years old?
[16:19] <mhall119> jpds: no, that's just how old I feel
[16:19] <mhall119> thanks nigelb
[17:37] <mhall119> woot! my gwibber patch is finally being applied
[23:30] <valorie> mhall119: happy anniversary to you and MichelleQ
[23:41] <mhall119> valorie: thanks


[08:50] <zniavre_> new indicator-sound scale is tricky as gnome-panel
[08:52] <zniavre_> sorry...  good morning
[08:52] <thorwil> good morning!
[08:55] <zniavre_> im now struggling with gtkrc for google chrome web-browser
[08:56] <zniavre_> http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6255/captureup.png >   for this small insensitive menu-button border
[13:28] <thorwil> i have to move the wm buttons to the right on my mother's laptop. gconftool-2 --set “/apps/metacity/general/button_layout” --type string “:minimize,maximize,close”
[13:29] <thorwil> works, except i only get minimiz, maximize, no close button
[13:29] <thorwil> anyone seen that, knows a solution?
[13:43] <zniavre> “menu:minimize,maximize,close” ?
[14:06] <zniavre> there is a way to use translucide image with pixmap engine?
[14:41] <thorwil> no matter what, i do, "close" is ignored. no friggin close button
[14:46] <thorwil> ah, ":minimize,maximize,close," fixed it. note the comma at the end
[15:41] <vish> zniavre ¦ doesnt any image work?  what is the problem with a semi-transparent image you noticed?
[15:45] <zniavre> i made a semi transparent image but it's not transparent in use
[15:46] <zniavre> it's for menu's background
[16:18] <vish> zniavre ¦ i dont think it that would work, i was thinking about the metacity buttons..
[16:47] <zniavre> vish,  you are right, it's not possible at this moment to do it
[16:47] <vish> zniavre ¦ how gtk does is, it first draws a background with bg-color and then uses the pixmap
[16:48] <vish> so no transparency possible unless it is in the engine..
[16:51] <zniavre> and pixmap does not do transparency right?
[16:51] <vish> afaik, no..
[16:51] <zniavre> pixmap-engine*
[17:22] <doctormo> Morning all
[17:23] <zniavre> doctormo,  good "evening"   :o)
[17:23] <vish> good night :)
[17:23]  * vish  ZZZzzzzzzz...
[17:23] <doctormo> lol
[17:31] <daker> morning doctormo
[17:31] <thorwil> aloha
[17:32] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, daker, thorwil, anything i can do for now for erato?
[17:33] <daker> doctormo, are able to run erato ?
[17:33] <doctormo> ronnie_vd_c: I just merged in your latest trunk
[17:35] <doctormo> daker: I merged in a lot of your changes too, but I had to do yours manually. So you'll have to mark your branch in launchpad.
[17:35] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: not for what there is now, but if you are interested, it would be great to have concurrent editing (like etherpad) figured out.
[17:36] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: and/or how to best combine bzr or git based version management with a database to do queries
[17:37] <doctormo> daker: Everything's working here.
[17:37] <daker> oki man
[17:39] <ronnie_vd_c> for another project, ill use phpmyadmin with mysql database. when the database is upgraded, i export the new database content (only the necessary data) into one sql file. the other users, runs a script, which deletes an own database and import the new one. Do you have an proposal for an better idea?
[17:39] <doctormo> Even the openid and logging in, nice work.
[17:39] <daker> ;)
[17:39] <doctormo> thorwil: I think I might have the know how to do the bzr intergration.
[17:40] <ronnie_vd_c> doctormo, wherefore do you need an etherpad alternative?
[17:40] <doctormo> I don't, see thorwil
[17:41] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: parts of the site will play a role similar to a wiki. concurrent editing avoids locking and edit conflicts
[17:42] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: i'd like to see blocks of content that are editable after a single click (if not immediately), without a page reload
[17:44] <doctormo> thorwil: Is it more important for coders to be doing research, or programming? or are we almost finished with this level 1?
[17:45] <thorwil> doctormo: i figure coordinating 3 coders working on a currently narrow project is not necesarily of advantage
[17:45] <thorwil> doctormo: research beats idling
[17:46] <thorwil> and if nothing else, ronnie_vd_c now knows about those ideas and reasoning
[17:46] <doctormo> true
[17:50] <thorwil> i guess the database will have to be kept out of the vcs and needs to track all versions of all files. well, all files we might want to query for
[17:51] <ronnie_vd_c> thorwil, you mean to research the best way to some basic ajax into django for editing without page reload?
[17:52] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: i assume that avoiding page reloads, doing ajax in django and concurrent editing will all be closely related
[17:54] <thorwil> perhaps we should be a bit daring and outright require javascript? assuming it will save some effort, where we would otherwise have to make sure things degrade gracefully
[17:54] <ronnie_vd_c> thorwil, the best solution for concurrent editing should be websockets, but its hard to implement in django, because it keeps 1 connection open. I dont know if django can handle that. Also its a HTML5 technique so not many browsers except FF and Chrome supports is. Al alternative way is to use comet
[17:56] <ronnie_vd_c> concurrent editing is impossible without javascript, but for other parts i agree there should be a non-js alternative. But from my limited experience, django does this job very well
[17:56] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: reagrding browser support, i'd say: build for the future. especially since many in our audience will stay recent, regarding updates
[17:59] <thorwil> ronnie_vd_c: seems relevant: http://www.lshift.net/blog/2009/03/02/evserver-part3-simplified-etherpad-clone
[17:59] <thorwil> also http://neil.fraser.name/writing/sync/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_transformation
[18:09]  * thorwil -> dinner
[18:20] <daker> doctormo, if the code you are using in ubuntu-us-ma website is grabing the realname, email so we should use it
[18:21] <doctormo> daker: Do you want to work on the openid if I work on the asset upload?
[18:21] <daker> ok
[20:09] <thorwil> vish: finally artwork team logo proposals. but of course not pen/paper, not presented without type, not on foopics :)
[21:07] <thorwil> doctormo: not satisfied yet, but for tonight, this is what the mockup looks like: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/05cc4fddd708942150d8335a0fdb8cae
[21:07] <thorwil> svg is in the meta-design-center branch
[21:08] <doctormo> thorwil: Interesting design, very blender like.
[21:11] <thorwil> hmm, yeah
[21:14] <thorwil> good night! :)