[12:03] <jnoon> anyone except me have any minior font/encoding issues with ubuntu?
[12:05] <bhna> by
[12:15] <kkathman> Tm_T: Did someone want to know something about gimpshop?
[12:15] <bc> jnoon, I have an encoding problem also, but it only appears when I look at man pages.  I get boxes and odd characters at the ends of lines- replacing hyphens, I think.  Don't know why
[12:16] <bc> oop, he's gone
[12:16] <Tm_T> kkathman: yes, don't remember who
[12:17] <kkathman> hey closure :)
[12:17] <kkathman> ahh ok...sorry was on the phone with a client
[12:17] <closure> hey kkathman
[12:18] <kkathman> actually once you get the gimpshop code, its fairly straightforward, but I could give them a list of things that they need to apt-get beforehand to save them some time
[12:20] <Tm_T> :)
[12:20] <cartel_> hey all :)
[12:20] <kkathman> so what have you been up to lately Tm_T ?
[12:21] <kkathman> howdy cartel_  :)
[12:21] <closure> wonder what old GW is gonna say tonight
[12:21] <Tm_T> hmm, just little depressed
[12:21] <closure> "i'm gonna run this country into the ground"
[12:21] <Tm_T> =)
[12:21] <Tm_T> GW?
[12:21] <aseigo_> george w bush
[12:22] <Tm_T> huh
[12:22] <kkathman> Tm_T: sorry to hear that...if its any help, you sure are a great help around here and always willing to help people without being snotty :)
[12:22] <closure> Tm_T, you know the monkey looking bastard who is president of the usa
[12:22] <Tm_T> closure: I know, and his not just looks like a monkey ;)
[12:23] <closure> Tm_T, you don't have to tell me twice
[12:23] <Tm_T> =)
[12:23] <Tm_T> kkathman: I'm glad to hear I can help
[12:23] <aseigo_> either of you americans? =)
[12:23] <Tm_T> aseigo_: nope
[12:23] <kkathman> yep
[12:24] <closure> aseigo_, i am
[12:24] <cartel_> hey aseigo_, u a kubuntu user now ? :)
[12:24] <Tm_T> aseigo_: I'm from Finland
[12:24] <aseigo_> cartel_: playing with it for possible use for a client.
[12:24] <aseigo_> cartel_: you see my last blog entry?
[12:24] <cartel_> aseigo_: high powered linux consultant
[12:24] <cartel_> aseigo_: i dont read your blog but i should.. url? blogs.kde.org ?
[12:24] <aseigo_> lol ... something like that =)
[12:25] <aseigo_> cartel_: planetkde.org
[12:25] <aseigo_> cartel_: or directly, aseigo.blogspot.com ...
[12:25] <kkathman> the more links, the better
[12:25] <kkathman> hehe
[12:26] <kkathman> even if they are hidden :)
[12:26] <kkathman> if you are into SEO kinds of things that is
[12:26] <kkathman> lol
[12:26] <kkathman> awwww aseigo_ you dont like the sandbox?
[12:26] <kkathman> hehe
[12:26] <kkathman> like anyone does :)
[12:27] <aseigo_> well, gg:seigo used to be dominated by the japenese (and a german shepard dog)
[12:27] <cartel_> lol asiego, nice :) "i wish Microsoft would understand the opportunities available to them if they only accepted the realities of the desktop and it's current direction (e.g. away from them)."
[12:27] <aseigo_> but i've slowly taken it over during the last 2 years or so ... until this last week when the akido guy took the #1 spot again
[12:27] <aseigo_> damn him. damn him and his flying kicks of akido death.
[12:27] <aseigo_> cartel_: =)
[12:27] <closure> well looks like mozilla is going to be testy today
[12:28] <kkathman> I tend to like the idea of Google threatenting Microsoft now...get MS fighting on another front :)
[12:28] <closure> why is it always something
[12:28] <cartel_> aseigo_: lots of personal stuff here.. do you want M$ to kidnap your kid to get u to work for them?
[12:28] <aseigo_> cartel_: that presentation was a real eye-openner. both because of how subtle (= well practiced) their FUD has become, and to show just how worried they really are (even if they aren't willing to change in response to that)
[12:28] <cartel_> yes, its funny to watch their doublethink
[12:28] <cartel_> especially in the "Windows Server System" ads
[12:29] <aseigo_> haha.. if they took Peyton to redmon, he'd just throw in a knoppix disk and IM me with his location ;)
[12:29] <aseigo_> there's actually less personal info in my blog than there used to be, actually ...
[12:30] <cartel_> aseigo_, does he carry a dnstunnel-enabled knoppix? :p how is he going to get through the isa servers ;)
[12:30] <aseigo_> now that people actually read it ;) i've tried to keep it a bit more tech oriented...
[12:30] <kkathman> my blog is always too political I think :)
[12:30] <aseigo_> cartel_: oh yeah, he's a mad hacker. keeps a credit card sized CD burned with a live linux distro on it in his shoe ;)
[12:30] <aseigo_> kkathman: url?
[12:31] <kkathman> aseigo_: www.xanga.com/korkster
[12:31] <Tm_T> ok, tell me a powerful *html editor
[12:31] <Tm_T> wysiwyg thank you ;p
[12:32] <kkathman> if you are a Far Right Wing conservative, you wont care for it much
[12:32] <Tm_T> =)
[12:32] <cartel_> aseigo_: u should have gotten up and rebutted all their points
[12:32] <Tm_T> just want test different apps
[12:33] <aseigo_> cartel_: oh, i kept him honest. he actually skipped past several slides completely
[12:33] <Tm_T> is Quanta plus the only one?
[12:33] <aseigo_> cartel_: several people came up after the event and shook my hand to thank me for coming out ;)
[12:33] <kkathman> Im thinking about trying a different flavor of Linux on one of my servers...not because I dislike Ubuntu, but to just look at something new...suggestions?
[12:33] <aseigo_> Tm_T: no... there is Quanta.. there is also *thinks* Nvu
[12:34] <Tm_T> ?
[12:34] <kkathman> Quanta Plus is actually not that bad
[12:34] <aseigo_> kkathman: what have you tried already
[12:34] <Tm_T> kkathman: Debian in server!
[12:34] <kkathman> aseigo_: uhm.. RH9, FC3 (very briefly), Mandrake, Libranet
[12:34] <aseigo_> kkathman: SUSE.
[12:34] <aseigo_> kkathman: SUSE is very nice.
[12:35] <cartel_> i hate suse
[12:35] <Riddell> aseigo_: morning.  remember I'm on austrlian time
[12:35] <cartel_> ;)
[12:35] <kkathman> problem with SUSE tho, I thought, was that you cant really get a full distro, cuz they only sell commerical
[12:35] <aseigo_> Riddell: so wake up earlier. really, what's more important? chatting with me on irc or sleeping? pfft. PRIORITIES! ;)
[12:35] <aseigo_> Riddell: how's the conf?
[12:35] <kkathman> the full SuSE that is
[12:35] <kkathman> hey Riddell :)
[12:35] <aseigo_> kkathman: no... just do an ftp install.. i do them all teh time
[12:35] <Tm_T> Riddell o/
[12:36] <aseigo_> kkathman: go grab the boot.iso from the ftp server, burn it (it's like 60MB for 9.2) and go from there...
[12:36] <kkathman> ahh ok
[12:36] <aseigo_> kkathman: remember to jot down the address of the mirror you grab it from for use during installation
[12:36] <kkathman> ok will do
[12:36] <aseigo_> Riddell: have you seen my last blog entry?
[12:36] <Riddell> aseigo_: conference is good
[12:36] <Riddell> havn't seen last blog entry
[12:37] <aseigo_> Riddell: ok. go take a looky and that'll save me lots of typing ;)
[12:37] <kkathman> aseigo_: do you think SuSE will run on a minimalist machine...P2 450, 128MB RAM ?
[12:37] <kkathman> FC3 is marginal on that
[12:37] <aseigo_> kkathman: yep..
[12:37] <Riddell> un oh, aseigo_ tries kubuntu, now we're in trouble
[12:37] <kkathman> aseigo_: kewl thanks man
[12:37] <aseigo_> Riddell: haha... dum dum DUM!
[12:37] <cartel_> aseigo_: sounds like u have problems with the women :o
[12:38] <Tm_T> kkathman: just stick on Debian
[12:38] <cartel_> Riddell: we should be honored
[12:38] <aseigo_> cartel_: this month has not been kind. =)
[12:38] <cartel_> aseigo_: in your opinion what is the best kde-friendly distro?
[12:38] <kkathman> Whys that Tm_T  ?
[12:38] <aseigo_> though a woman i met in hawaii in january keeps emailing me ... =) that's good
[12:38] <aseigo_> cartel_: "best" ... in which way?
[12:38] <Tm_T> kkathman: I wouldn't even consider any other in server
[12:38] <cartel_> aseigo_: most integrated?
[12:38] <aseigo_> cartel_: SUSE
[12:39] <cartel_> aseigo_: are they your employer?
[12:39] <aseigo_> cartel_: YAST and KDE and their general packaging intelligence is probably the slickest thing out there right now
[12:39] <aseigo_> cartel_: no
[12:39] <kkathman> lol
[12:39] <cartel_> aseigo_: why not? because they cant have both you and miguel? ;)
[12:39] <Riddell> aseigo_: you may be interested in http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuRoadmap
[12:40] <cartel_> aseigo_: it seems funny to have suse, which is kde, and ximian, which is gnome... cool but funny
[12:40] <aseigo_> cartel_: haha .. i can only imagine me and miguel working down the hall from each other =)
[12:40] <Riddell> aseigo_: tabbar at the top on konsole is to match konqueror and other tab bars (but not I note koshell 1.4)
[12:40] <cartel_> aseigo_: it seems very lame that miguel and havoc have high profile positions in linux vendors but not you
[12:41] <aseigo_> Riddell: you do understand why that one is on the bottom, right? like konversation? =)
[12:41] <Riddell> aseigo_: didn't remember to make a kubuntu theme I certainly should do
[12:41] <Riddell> aseigo_: yeah, I guess so
[12:41] <aseigo_> it's where your eyes rest most of the time =)
[12:42] <Riddell> kynaptic is crap, we know this much
[12:42] <aseigo_> who is working on it?
[12:42] <aseigo_> and how much of a fork of synaptic is it?
[12:42] <Riddell> aseigo_: nobody, that's why it's crap, I hope to work on Kapture instead
[12:42] <kkathman> aseigo_: would you suggest the 9.3 SuSE ?
[12:42] <aseigo_> ah .. i see.
[12:42] <Riddell> it's in the same repository as synaptic
[12:42] <aseigo_> kkathman: it's not up on ftp yet
[12:42] <cartel_> kynaptic is written in python yes
[12:42] <cartel_> i should hack it
[12:42] <kkathman> ahh ok..only 9.2 then
[12:42] <cartel_> maybe its not worth it
[12:43] <Riddell> cartel_: no it's not
[12:43] <cartel_> it looks like a pyqt app
[12:43] <kkathman> I just went to the page and they have a download link tho...perhaps not FTP
[12:43] <Riddell> as are the menus.. no quit button
[12:43] <aseigo_> yep
[12:43] <aseigo_> it allows you to exit w/out "committing" changes ("commit"? augh)
[12:44] <Riddell> good ideas with the konqueror about page, I spend enough time on the KDE 3.4 about page that i didn't want to spoil it though :)
[12:44] <aseigo_> it has a modal dialog which should probably just replace the main tree view when it's installing, etc.. but yeah... blah.. kapture.. let me see.
[12:44] <aseigo_> Riddell: i was sitting down with it and here are my thoughts on about: in kubuntu.. do with them as you will =)
[12:44] <aseigo_> the 3 rows of icons:
[12:44] <aseigo_> Home                     Trash
[12:44] <Riddell> aseigo_: with kcontrol I'm seriously considering using systempreferences instead
[12:44] <aseigo_> Network                Remote
[12:44] <kkathman> aseigo_: 3.2G DVD...that sound right?
[12:45] <aseigo_> Install Software           Settings (<-- which just launch kcontrol directly)
[12:45] <kkathman> seems big to me
[12:45] <aseigo_> kkathman: that's the 9.3 DVD, yes.. but it's missing a lot of packages. it's more of a preview than anything
[12:45] <Riddell> aseigo_: Network and Remote?
[12:45] <aseigo_> kkathman: you want the 9.2 boot.iso .. it'll be  in suse/x86/9.2/boot/boot.iso
[12:45] <Tm_T> sorry guys but I have to sleep ->
[12:46] <kkathman> ahhh ok
[12:46] <aseigo_> Riddell: sorry... my bad.. Storage and Network/Remote
[12:46] <aseigo_> Tm_T: g'nite man
[12:46] <aseigo_> and Install Software would launch kynaptic kapture...
[12:46] <kkathman> aseigo_: boot-20041129.iso ?
[12:46] <Riddell> aseigo_: I think there should be a link to a Welcome to Kubuntu help document too
[12:47] <aseigo_> and yeah. ... would be ++cool if the about: screen looked like the kubuntu web site =) use those spanky tabs ... one for the starting points, intro, tips, and the kubuntu home page
[12:47] <aseigo_> Riddell: that would belong in the tabbar, no?
[12:47] <Riddell> which tab bar?
[12:47] <aseigo_> oh, right.. how the HELL do i get the kubuntu help that i saw install?
[12:47] <aseigo_> Riddell: well, assuming you took the top tab bar from kubuntu.org and made that the top of the about: page
[12:48] <Riddell> there is no kubuntu help now
[12:48] <Riddell> ah yes, that rab bar
[12:48] <Riddell> tab bar
[12:48] <aseigo_> er, the ubuntu help.. sorry.. .the ubuntu dos
[12:48] <aseigo_> er, docs
[12:48] <aseigo_> oh.. and what do you think about shipping a "more usable" window buttons layout?
[12:48] <Riddell> /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/about-ubuntu-html/index.html
[12:48] <KaiL> aseigo_: more usable?
[12:48] <aseigo_> [s]  == spacer ...
[12:49] <aseigo_> X [s] [s] [s] [s]  Menu <Title, left aligned> <?> [s] [s]  Min Max
[12:49] <aseigo_> try it =)
[12:49] <Riddell> aseigo_: could be controvertial, even Mac OS has copies the windows 95 layout
[12:49] <KaiL> aseigo_: bad
[12:49] <KaiL> people expect x on the right
[12:51] <KaiL> is it really required to install all that python stuff on a default installation?=
[12:51] <aseigo_> well, in osX it's on the left.. but.. whatever
[12:51] <cartel_> KaiL: ubuntu uses lots of python so yes
[12:52] <cartel_> aseigo_: u learned python yet?
[12:52] <KaiL> aseigo_: but there are way more people coming from windows
[12:52] <aseigo_> cartel_: god no
[12:52] <KaiL> cartel_: if any app requires python, ok
[12:52] <aseigo_> cartel_: at least not enough to be profficient.. i've hacked on and read a bit of python, and i can understand it.. but yeah, no desire to get good at it =)
[12:52] <cartel_> KaiL: internal stuff uses python
[12:52] <cartel_> KaiL: pre/postinst etc
[12:52] <KaiL> but why does it need to install python-addons which are not required by anything on the disk
[12:53] <Tm_T> oh, no I'm not gonna sleep!
[12:53] <KaiL> cartel_: so these packages should have that and only that python-module on it's depend list
[12:53] <Tm_T> I start to make an alpha of my homepage =)
[12:53] <cartel_> KaiL: im sorry? its the same as debian with perl
[12:53] <KaiL> doesn't make that better
[12:54] <Tm_T> ?
[12:54] <aseigo_> btw, the choice of conversation as a default irc client is .... interesting. the fact i HAD an irc client by default was interesting =)
[12:54] <KaiL> kubuntu-desktop directly depends on packages like "python-musicbrainz" (whatever that is..)
[12:54] <KaiL> THAT is imho a bad idea
[12:54] <Riddell> aseigo_: interesting in which ways?
[12:54] <Tm_T> irssi <3
[12:54] <cartel_> KaiL: why?
[12:55] <KaiL> cartel_: because either that package also needs it directly (which I don't belive in) or this dependency breaks with the rule "only install what's needed"
[12:55] <cartel_> KaiL: kubuntu-desktop depends on amarok which uses musicbrainz
[12:56] <KaiL> so amarok _may_ depend on "python-musicbrainz", if it needs that
[12:56] <cartel_> KaiL: its to give the musicbrainz feature by default
[12:56] <cartel_> not depend, optional
[12:56] <KaiL> it doesn't btw.
[12:57] <cartel_> so you would like a stripped down distro that only installs minimal packages and lets you choose exactly what you want yes?
[12:57] <KaiL> no
[12:57] <cartel_> like sarge netinst/debootstrap?
[12:57] <Tm_T> Debian Sarge <3
[12:58] <KaiL> I want dependencies, which depend on something, because it is needed or maybe can be used directly by this package
[12:58] <cartel_> well afaict, the spirit of kubuntu is to give a nice desktop, and to do that it uses lots of python
[12:58] <KaiL> but NOT depends on something which might be used by any package this package depends on
[01:00] <KaiL> if amarok depends on this "python-musicbrainz", as it makes use of it
[01:00] <cartel_> it doesnt depend :) its optional, the point of including it is to give the functionality by default
[01:01] <KaiL> it doesn't even suggest :)
[01:01] <Tm_T> :)
[01:02] <darkaudit> cartel_: and even then, musicbrainz is broken. Or actually tunepimp... they forgot to compile in mp3 support
[01:02] <Tm_T> oh
[01:02] <cartel_> darkaudit: it works fine from amarok :)
[01:02] <Tm_T> amaroK <3
[01:02] <Tm_T> ok, too much love for one night =)
[01:02] <Tm_T> but I like it
[01:02] <darkaudit> cartel_: I had to recompile libtunepimp-bin to get amaroK or Juk to get the ID3 info off the net...
[01:03] <nmorse> Hey, why doesn't the icon size in Konqueror change?
[01:03] <cartel_> darkaudit: did you reportbug?
[01:03] <darkaudit> cartel_: yep
[01:04] <cartel_> what i would like to see fixed is kdevelop :o
[01:04] <KaiL> Riddell: your oppinion about that python-flood?
[01:04] <Tm_T> darkaudit: !!!!
[01:04] <Riddell> KaiL: which python flood?
[01:05] <KaiL> ...
[01:05] <darkaudit> yes? :)
[01:05] <Tm_T> darkaudit: great song ends a great album :)
[01:05] <KaiL> kubuntu-desktop depends on around 30, maybe more python packages, which might be used by any app
[01:05] <darkaudit> amaroK smart playlists <3
[01:06] <Tm_T> :)
[01:06] <KaiL> for around 99.9% of all users these are only wasted diskspace...
[01:06] <aseigo_k> er, combox
[01:06] <aseigo_k> combos
[01:06] <aseigo_k> Riddell: speaking of media players ... why amaroK, Noatun _and_ juk?
[01:06] <Riddell> KaiL: do you know what brings them in?
[01:06] <Riddell> aseigo_k: noatun isn't installed
[01:07] <KaiL> Riddell: kubuntu-desktop itself, that's the problem...
[01:07] <Riddell> aseigo_k: amarok because it's sexy and juk because it's usable
[01:07] <KaiL> if any app would depend on them, it's ok
[01:07] <Tm_T> and amaroK is still unstable sometimes
[01:07] <KaiL> but a metapackage normally shouldn't depend on libraries imho
[01:07] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: it's in some KDE package?
[01:07] <cartel_> Riddell: apt-cache show kubuntu-desktop
[01:07] <cartel_> KaiL: i actually agree there
[01:08] <cartel_> kaiL: but i dont think its a waste of diskspace
[01:08] <darkaudit> aseigo_k: I switched all my media associations off noatun to either xine or XMMS
[01:08] <aseigo_k> it would be nice to see amaroK come "pre set up" for the user so they don't have to go through the first time wizard ... and yeah... i love juk, but wonder how that fits in with the rest of the app choices (being "one app for one thing" it seems/)
[01:08] <cartel_> an unusual depend is diveintopython
[01:08] <nmorse> Is there any particular reason changing the file manager icon settings in kcontrol does no good?
[01:08] <aseigo_k> Riddell: oh, which reminds me... what would you think about dropping the web browser and file manager panels from kcontrol?
[01:09] <Riddell> aseigo_k: panels?
[01:09] <aseigo_k> Riddell: kcm's
[01:09] <Tm_T> ah, I'm having hard time surfing between two irc clients :p
[01:09] <Tm_T> am I addicted or what?
[01:09] <nmorse> leave the kcm's for Christ's sakes
[01:09] <Riddell> aseigo_k: sounds good
[01:10] <Riddell> nmorse: why?  why not just go through Konqueror->Configure
[01:10] <Riddell> aseigo_k: any thoughts on using systempreferences?
[01:10] <nmorse> I appreciate having one location for everything
[01:10] <aseigo_k> i've never seen THAT before.. was that intentional somehow?
[01:10] <aseigo_k> nmorse: for the webbrowser as well? should kmail's preferences be there too?
[01:11] <Riddell> aseigo_k: I don't see that
[01:11] <aseigo_k> Riddell: heh. neat.
[01:11] <nmorse> No, we have kontact for all the PIM stuff
[01:11] <Riddell> aseigo_k: someone said we should use fading handles on kicker applets.  any thouhts?
[01:11] <Tm_T> yes?
[01:11] <cartel_> the other thing i noticed was "Log out" does not return to kdm
 Riddell: oh, which reminds me... what would you think about dropping the web browser and file manager panels from kcontrol? << +++
[01:12] <nmorse> And why can I not change the file manager icon settings? It says they're changed in Kcontrol -> Appearance and Themes -> Icons -> Advanced
[01:12] <Tm_T> KaiL: you're using Konversation?
[01:12] <Riddell> cartel_: works for me
[01:12] <KaiL> Tm_T: currently xchat, because konversation can't hide servertabs
[01:12] <Tm_T> ok
[01:12] <aseigo_k> Riddell: the konqueror toolbar could use a bit of love too =) kill the lock icon, for instance, and Find... though i'm not sure how "minimal" vs "stock KDE" you are aiming for
[01:13] <Tm_T> KaiL: just guessed from you paste ;)
[01:13] <Riddell> aseigo_k: I'm happy to experiment
[01:13] <Riddell> especially if ideas have any chance of being put back into KDE
[01:13] <Riddell> aseigo_k: and I do hate that lock icon...but pmax might kill me
[01:13] <cartel_> aseigo_: that lock icon should appear in the status bar like rss and kwallet
[01:13] <aseigo_k> Riddell: fading handles... not a bad idea, but you'd want to backport the changes to kdebase/kicker/core/applethandle.cpp for applets with out-of-process elements (like the system tray) otherwise it looks a bit like ass
[01:13] <KaiL> aseigo_: http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kde34.jpeg THAT is a clean toolbar :)
[01:14] <Riddell> cartel_: it does, and the location bar
[01:14] <aseigo_k> Riddell: does pmax use kubuntu?
[01:14] <KaiL> you can also hide the |, as I did later..
[01:14] <Riddell> aseigo_k: not that I know of
[01:15] <Tm_T> wtf my Quanta plus just crashed :/
[01:15] <Tm_T> not that funny
[01:15] <nmorse> Man, Kubuntu's KDE is cut down beyond belief
[01:15] <Tm_T> ?
[01:15] <KaiL> nmorse: ?
[01:15] <nmorse> Anyway, I still haven't had anyone answer the question regarding the freaking huge icons in Konqueror
[01:16] <aseigo_k> and what do you think about tweaking konq's settings so it's a bit more firefoxy? e.g. new windows in tabs... (maybe even tab bar always shown? nice way to reduce flicker/jumpiness... and if you manage to squeeze the toolbar onto one line you don't take up more space)
[01:16] <Tm_T> smouche <3
[01:16] <Riddell> KaiL: but with that you have a lot of wasted unused space on the toolbar
[01:16] <nmorse> Kubuntu doesn't look like KDE from source or other distros
[01:16] <aseigo_k> and turn on the popup blocker
[01:16] <Tm_T> nmorse: hm, you tried set them in konqui?
[01:16] <KaiL> Riddell: I have my bookmarks right of that :)
[01:16] <nmorse> No way to set icon size in Konqui I've found
[01:16] <Riddell> aseigo_k: absolutly
[01:16] <sladen> /w9n/win 13
[01:16] <nmorse> and the Kcontrol icon settings doesn't work, which is bad
[01:16] <Tm_T> nmorse: there is
[01:16] <Riddell> aseigo_k: new windows are in tabs
[01:17] <smouche> Hi Tm_T
[01:17] <Tm_T> nmorse: view -> icon size ->
[01:17] <Tm_T> smouche: how are you?
[01:17] <smouche> good! you?
[01:17] <nmorse> Found it, Tm_T
[01:17] <aseigo_k> Riddell: they open in tabs by default? in 5.04?
[01:17] <Riddell> aseigo_k: I don't see that beastie
[01:17] <Tm_T> ok
[01:18] <Riddell> aseigo_k: think so, try opening Home from the kicker system menu
[01:18] <KaiL> lol, has somebody seen Lipstick and gtk2-engines-qt working  together? :)
[01:18] <aseigo_k> nmorse: oh.. and you don't want to know how big i usually have my icons in konqi ;)
[01:18] <nmorse> But why doesn't the File Manager Icon Size work in KControkl -> Appearance & Themes -> Icons -> Advanced?
[01:18] <aseigo_k> Riddell: nope. new window.
[01:18] <Riddell> aseigo_k: opens in a tab for me
[01:18] <sladen> Riddell: ...my screen has been frozen for the last 5minutes because of the wonderful wifi
[01:18] <aseigo_k> nmorse: what's the icon size in the View menu in konqi say?
[01:19] <Tm_T> nmorse: it worked allright then?
[01:19] <nmorse> It worked from the View menu in Konqui, but the KControl Icons kcm doesn't work
[01:19] <Tm_T> :)
[01:19] <nmorse> Someone should look at that
[01:19] <aseigo_k> Riddell: hm. i haven't touched those settings. this is a brand new install. the only thing i've changed is i just turned on fade out handels on kicker to see that in action and i mucked with the window deco butons
[01:20] <Tm_T> smouche: I have a problem
[01:20] <Riddell> aseigo_k: maybe that's my fault then, I'll mind to investigate that
[01:20] <smouche> what's that, Tm_T?
[01:20] <Riddell> aseigo_k: but with open in tab Konqueror needs to just to the top when a new tab opens
[01:20] <nmorse> I change to Plastik windeco, Keramik style, Keramik White color scheme, Penny Arcade CTS wallpaper
[01:20] <Tm_T> smouche: tell me a decent html editor
[01:20] <KaiL> brb (need to change something here..)
[01:20] <aseigo_k> Riddell: "just to teh top"?
[01:21] <Riddell> s/just/jump/
[01:21] <aseigo_k> Riddell: oh.. and the performance settings...
[01:21] <smouche> in linux?  I have no idea; anyway, I generally just use a text editor and steal layouts!
[01:21] <Riddell> performance settings?
[01:21] <aseigo_k> Riddell: right.. which is why i usually run with the tab bar always on..
[01:21] <Tm_T> smouche: :)
[01:21] <Tm_T> smouche: I don't remember tags and such
[01:21] <aseigo_k> performance.. konq isn't set to preload on startup and Minimize Memory Usage is the default (if safeish) "Only in file management"
[01:21] <smouche> Tm_T -- I used something in windows called arachnophilia, a java app, rather nice.  But I'm no web designer.
[01:21] <Tm_T> yuk
[01:22] <nmorse> Quanta Plus is the best HTML editor I've ever used
[01:22] <nmorse> On any OS
[01:22] <Tm_T> nmorse: crashes too often :/
[01:22] <nmorse> Lately, I'll agree with you
[01:22] <Tm_T> smouche: I used aranchnophilia ten years ago (?)
[01:23] <KaiL> brb
[01:23] <KaiL> with an empty ~/.kde now...:)
[01:23] <KaiL> let's start flaming:
[01:23] <KaiL> fontsize -> is that made for blinds running 150dpi? :)
[01:23] <Tm_T> haha
[01:23] <Tm_T> YES!
[01:23] <aseigo_k> Riddell: yeah.. the konqi settings could use some work.. they are all pretty vanilla defaults.. things like the "1MB max" for file previews is a bit conservative.. lots of people ask about that in #kde
[01:23] <Tm_T> I have trouble with too large fonts in 100dpi =)
[01:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: what does Minimize Memory Usage do?
[01:24] <nmorse> Is there a JDK in multiverse?
[01:24] <smouche> can i rave about something I love in konqueror?
[01:24] <aseigo_k> Riddell: it just runs all the konqi windows in one process
[01:24] <KaiL> Tm_T: it's really WAY to big here
[01:24] <aseigo_k> Riddell: so ... if one goes down, they all do.. that's the risk =)
[01:24] <smouche> the tabs, and the fact that, unlike firefox's
[01:24] <aseigo_k> smouche: of course =)
[01:24] <Tm_T> KaiL: stick with 70dpi ;)
[01:24] <KaiL> bad!
[01:24] <KaiL> eh bah!
[01:24] <smouche> I never run out of comfortable space for clicking for a new tab
[01:24] <aseigo_k> underline file names -> off...
[01:25] <Tm_T> KaiL: or 100dpi
[01:25] <smouche> you know what I mean?  In firefox, with say five tabs open, the space narrows, crowds the close button
[01:25] <Tm_T> :)
[01:25] <KaiL> Tm_T: I have 96dpi screen and 100dpi fonts
[01:25] <smouche> that doesn't happen in konqueror -- great design!
[01:25] <KaiL> and the default is huge
[01:25] <Tm_T> KaiL: me too, too large =)
[01:25] <Tm_T> I have to use 8p fonts :p
[01:26] <KaiL> 9p now
[01:26] <_ubuntu> Kubuntu's user interface(KDE) is way more responsive than Ubuntu(gnome), I am on Duron 600, 256MB, GF2 MX200 32MB
[01:26] <KaiL> why is there the right hidebutton on kicker?
[01:26] <nmorse> So you can hide the panel manually
[01:26] <KaiL> hmm
[01:26] <Tm_T> KaiL: remove it if you don't like it?
[01:26] <smouche> KaiL, you can remove that button or put it on the left, or have two
[01:26] <nmorse> Please leave that there at least by default
[01:27] <KaiL> I know I know.. I'm only flaming about the defaults :)
[01:27] <smouche> or make it really small, whatever.  I wish those buttons were transparent, or at least that the blue triangle thing would go away
[01:27] <nmorse> I flamed about huge icons in Konqueror earlier
[01:27] <Riddell> aseigo_k: no comment on systempreferences?
[01:28] <Tm_T> ok, can't follow you fellas, so ->
[01:30] <smouche> see you later Tm_T
[01:30] <nmorse> Why is the clock in HH:MM mode by default instead of pH:MM AMPM?
[01:32] <nmorse> One more thing, why on earth, if there is a perfectly good, free messaging and chatting technology available, with a huge amount of modern clients, does every F/OSS project feel the need to use X-Chat and IRC by default?!! Is there some kind of anti-Jabber movement I don't know about?
[01:33] <aseigo_k> Riddell: sorry.. was busy looking at konq... hrm.. systempreferences... it's a step backwards in a lot of ways.
[01:33] <aseigo_k> Riddell: it would need a good amount of work to get it to where it was useful. mostly to do with re-doing a lot of the panels themselves
[01:34] <Blissex> nmorse: tradition... And IRC is good enough.
[01:34] <Tm_T> irc <3
[01:35] <Riddell> aseigo_k: how is it a step backwards?
[01:35] <Tm_T> I don't think there's better option than irc
[01:36] <nmorse> You know, the phrase "Good enough" is the killer of a lot of good software projects
[01:36] <Tm_T> haha
[01:36] <Tm_T> nmorse: tell me, what would be better choise than irc?
[01:36] <nmorse> Jabber
[01:36] <Tm_T> eh
[01:36] <nmorse> with MUC conference support
[01:37] <Tm_T> hmm
[01:37] <Tm_T> and most *nix people don't use jabber afaik
[01:37] <nmorse> It allows everything done now, including making channels, joining channels, and choosing nicknames
[01:37] <nmorse> and allows IM to boot
[01:37] <aseigo_k> Riddell: the combinations of many of the panels make 0 sense
[01:37] <nmorse> plus transports are possible to IRC, AIM, MSN, and Yahoo if you so desire
[01:38] <Curalton> is there a ubuntu equivalent to packages.debian.org? i want to download the kword + dependencies for a ubuntu box that is offline atm
[01:38] <nmorse> Send file, anything I'm leaving out?
[01:38] <Riddell> aseigo_k: just like kcontrol then, and at least its searchable
[01:38] <aseigo_k> Riddell: you trade off an initial interface that is somewhat nicer for complete hell once you drill down
[01:38] <Tm_T> nmorse: and what is "MUC conference" ?
[01:38] <aseigo_k> kcontrol is searchable too
[01:38] <aseigo_k> no, not like kcontrol at all
[01:38] <nmorse> Multi-User Chat
[01:38] <Tm_T> ok
[01:38] <nmorse> It allows rooms like this one
[01:38] <aseigo_k> s.p. combines 3 or 4 panels at a time often in ways that are just horrible.
[01:38] <nmorse> And both Gnome and KDE include Jabber clients by default
[01:39] <Tm_T> nmorse: so tell me, what advantages does it have what irc not?
[01:39] <pvh> I'd like to get started with my own public key. Can anyone direct me to a good HOWTO? My searches have been fruitless so far.
[01:39] <Riddell> pvh: gpg --gen-key or something similar
[01:39] <aseigo_k> pvh: run kgpg
[01:39] <nmorse> For one thing, IM. For another, a decent interface.
[01:39] <nmorse> Transports
[01:39] <pvh> Thanks!
[01:39] <Tm_T> nmorse: what?!!
[01:40] <aseigo_k> pvh: it will give you a gui for creating a keypair when it starts up the first time
[01:40] <Tm_T> nmorse: there can't be better interface than irssi have!
[01:40] <Riddell> I wonder if amarok can be stipped down to be as simlpe as juk by default with all its fancy features there for those who want them
[01:40] <nmorse> pick a Jabber client
[01:40] <nmorse> there's one for every interface
[01:40] <nmorse> Even Kopete and Gaim have Jabber support
[01:41] <nmorse> Then there's Gabber, Cabber, CenterICQ, Psi, etc.
[01:41] <Tm_T> nmorse: so what's wrong with irc?
[01:41] <Tm_T> you can use irssi, gaim, Konversation, X-Chat ....
[01:42] <nmorse> A) A lack of a way to deal with PMs in a decent manner - like if you want to help one person with a problem without disturbing the whole room
[01:42] <Tm_T> nmorse: /msg me ;)
[01:42] <pvh> aseigo_k: Is there a preferred way to specify multiple emails in the key?
[01:42] <KaiL> do we need underlined texts in konq?
[01:43] <aseigo_k> Riddell: if you use the juk layout, select "All Collection" for the playlist and reorder the toolbar a bit, usre..
[01:43] <Riddell> KaiL: I prefer not having underlined links but a lot of websites do assume it unfortunatly
[01:43] <aseigo_k> pvh: you can add new identities once it's created, yes
[01:44] <KaiL> Riddell: I mean in filemanager mode
[01:44] <aseigo_k> oh, in FM mode.. yeah.. pfft.. get rid of that..
[01:44] <SpookyET> what is the command that tells you memory usage?
[01:44] <Riddell> KaiL: good point
[01:44] <SpookyET> programs/cache
[01:44] <Riddell> SpookyET: free
[01:45] <KaiL> and disable the shit (popups...) in browser mode
[01:45] <closure> anybody use gmailfs?
[01:45] <pvh> aseigo_k: Thanks, now to figure out how to use it with KMail.
[01:45] <pvh> aseigo_k: Have you ever considered using version control on your home directory?
[01:46] <pvh> aseigo_k: It works beautifully.
[01:48] <kkathman> how dare customers cut into my linux time :)
[01:49] <aseigo_k> pvh: yes.. it's nice like that =)
[01:49] <_ubuntu> Hi, in Kubuntu, how do you move a program from desktop 1 to desktop 2? like in gnome, it is CTRL-ALT-ArrowKey
[01:50] <Riddell> _ubuntu: click on top left window menu and To Desktop-> 2
[01:50] <kkathman> _ubuntu: right click the application and look to "move to desktop"
[01:50] <_ubuntu> is there shortcut key though?
[01:51] <kkathman> not that I know of
[01:51] <_ubuntu> kkathman: ic ic....thanks
[01:51] <aseigo_k> Riddell: how open are you to maintaining patches =)
[01:51] <Riddell> aseigo_k: such as what?
[01:51] <aseigo_k> well, actually.. i suppose 5.10 will be based on a 3.5-ish kde?
[01:52] <Riddell> aseigo_k: well, that remains to be seen if KDE ever gets a release schedule
[01:52] <aseigo_k> such as the ability to assign the Home button per profile
[01:52] <Riddell> doesn't sound too hard
[01:52] <aseigo_k> and a new home page.. (some of that is hardcoded IIRC =/)
[01:52] <Riddell> aseigo_k: any idea what turns lets you use this?  http://rohan.bsdnerds.org/Riddell.jpg
[01:53] <aseigo_k> ... and kicker backported from HEAD ;-P (well, once i get the demands attentions bugs worked out)
[01:53] <bettse> I have a intel ipw2100 wireless card, I was using it on gentoo and i'm giving kubuntu a try.  kwifimanger shows it disabled, but a valid ip is shown.  using the file->disable radio togle in kwifi runs 'iwconfig eth0 txpower on', but my card doesn't support txpower.  Can anyone give me suggestions to narrow the cause, or does anyone have experience with this card?
[01:53] <aseigo_k> Riddell: the Lilo integration?
[01:53] <Riddell> aseigo_k: hmm, we use grub
[01:54] <Riddell> aseigo_k: but that image...so cool
[01:54] <KaiL> is it a good idea to have 4 virtual desktops as default?
[01:54] <aseigo_k> yeah, i know =)
[01:54] <aseigo_k> KaiL: how many would you recommend?
[01:54] <bettse> KaiL, it will be fine on any moden (1ghz+) system
[01:54] <kkathman> KaiL: I would love to have more but prolly not as defaults
[01:54] <KaiL> aseigo_: 1 or 2
[01:54] <Tm_T> AERGH! I'm hungry!
[01:55] <Tm_T> feed me please
[01:55] <bettse> KaiL, are you wondering about cpu consumption, or something else?
[01:55] <KaiL> users, which are not common to this feature click on the icon and see all their apps disapearing....
[01:56] <kkathman> KaiL: thats a good point actually, it is funny...they are used to clicking the bottom toolbar (kicker) and yep..the apps disapper
[01:56] <kkathman> disappear I  mean
[01:57] <kkathman> Its because the kicker isnt tied to the desktops which fools some
[01:57] <bettse> does anyone here use a ipw2100 wireless card?
[01:57] <kkathman> One improvement that would be great is if the last step of an installation would remove the CD-ROM deb from the sources.list (or at least comment it out)
[01:57] <aseigo_k> well, if minipager showed nicer previews it woudl be a bit more obvious what it is doing =)
[01:58] <Tm_T> kkathman: <3
[01:58] <kkathman> there I am less than 3 again :)
[01:59] <Tm_T> ;)
[02:00] <closure> oh here we go!
[02:00] <Tm_T> oh, I'm shaking!
[02:00] <Tm_T> maybe I really should eat something =)
[02:00] <kkathman> you should
[02:01] <Tm_T> hmm, but what
[02:01] <Tm_T> don't have any bread :/
[02:01] <KaiL> kkathman: bad idea to remove that line
[02:01] <KaiL> many users don't have a fast internet connection....
[02:01] <closure> look at that jackass's face
[02:01] <Tm_T> :)
[02:01] <kkathman> KaiL:  ok...just that we have lots of questions when people do apt-gets
[02:02] <Tm_T> maybe installer should ask it ;)
[02:03] <Tm_T> "do you think you have fast internet connection an lot of time to wait?"
[02:03] <Tm_T> yes [x]  no [ ]
[02:03] <kkathman> even so....not everything is on the CD .. so even dialups cant get most things from a cd :)
[02:04] <kkathman> but hey..I didnt have a prob with it..but alot of newbies get frustrated when they cant do an apt-get
[02:05] <closure> "social security worked in the last century, but the math has changed" since we all know that 2+2 in 1992 equlaed 4 but now in 2005 it equals 5
[02:05] <closure> haha i'm still in #kubuntu
[02:06] <closure> sorry
[02:06] <Tm_T> yes you are ] ;=
[02:06] <kkathman> closure what are you reading?
[02:06] <closure> i'm watching the presidential news conference
[02:06] <kkathman> I was wondering who he was calling a jackass..lol  I was going to be offended :)
[02:08] <kkathman> closure:  I wonder when we changed the math rules... is that what all that "new math" is all about?
[02:09] <Tm_T> ok, in Konsole, I can detach session, is there any way to (re)attach it?
[02:10] <closure> kkathman, i guess
[02:10] <KaiL> Tm_T: seams to be gone, in 3.3 there was...
[02:10] <Tm_T> KaiL: ok, sad
[02:11] <kkathman> Tm_T: I have never found a way to re-attache
[02:11] <Tm_T> ----------
[02:12] <Tm_T> a big minus for that then :)
[02:15] <aseigo_k> Riddell: what was the name of the non-kynaptic package manager GUI you mentioned ealrier?
[02:16] <Diablo-D3> synaptic? ;)
[02:16] <aseigo_k> Diablo-D3: heh. no
[02:17] <Tm_T> kpackage?
[02:18] <Tm_T> =)
[02:21] <KaiL> Riddell: that dropdown in the logout only works with grub?
[02:21] <KaiL> or with lilo too?
[02:22] <aseigo_k> i believe it _only_ works with lilo, actually
[02:22] <closure> Tm_T, under the kmenu goto switch user
[02:23] <closure> and there should be your other session listed there
[02:23] <KaiL> aseigo_: then how to enable that?
[02:23] <aseigo_k> KaiL: in the Login Manager control panel.
[02:24] <Tm_T> closure: I mean Konsole sessions ;)
[02:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: Kapture
[02:24] <Tm_T> closure: totally different thing
[02:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: in kdeplayground-something/debian
[02:24] <closure> Tm_T, oh ok
[02:24] <Riddell> aseigo_k: likely doesn't compile or work
[02:24] <closure> i thought you meant KDE sessions i was sorta skim reading
[02:25] <Tm_T> np
[02:25] <Riddell> KaiL: well it doesn't seem to work with grub
[02:26] <KaiL> bad...
[02:26] <Riddell> aseigo_k: we also want to have an applications based "package manager"
[02:26] <Riddell> similar to gnome-app-install but nicer
[02:26] <KaiL> another argument to stay with lilo :)
[02:27] <KaiL> btw. what was the way to get lilo? installing on xfs?
[02:30] <kkathman> hey incubii  :)
[02:30] <Bicchi> does anyone know how to setup a dual monitor system. i now have it but the other monitor is cloned instead of a big desktop area.
[02:30] <aseigo_k> Riddell: heh.. ok... screenshots anywhere?
[02:30] <aseigo_k> Riddell: of kapture, that is
[02:31] <aseigo_k> Riddell: and when you say "applications based", you mean osmething wher eyou can click "spreadsheet" and it installs <whatever spreadsheet>?
[02:31] <incubii> heya
[02:31] <incubii> sounds like klik for knoppix
[02:32] <kkathman> Ive heard decent things about knoppix :)
[02:32] <incubii> i worked on the early HDD installer
[02:32] <incubii> i was that impressed by it
[02:32] <incubii> :D
[02:32] <incubii> i use it all the time at schools, libraries, net cafes
[02:32] <kkathman> Ive got a free disk for Knoppix I never used actually
[02:32] <KaiL> aseigo_: and if you try to open a file no app on the disk can open, this tool pops up and gives you a list of apps, which can :)
[02:32] <incubii> that is of course unless i want to be naughty and then i use auditor
[02:33] <nmorse> I used it in an all Windows lab at a Cali Tech Conference this summer
[02:33] <nmorse> saved my life
[02:33] <KaiL> Knoppix is a nice distribution, but it has 2 very bad things:
[02:33] <KaiL> 1. it has too must shit (sorry) like xemacs or development stuff installed
[02:34] <incubii> i used it to setup a temporary net cafe
[02:34] <incubii> 1 cd and the rest netbooting
[02:34] <incubii> yeah i agree it doesnt need the development stuff
[02:34] <KaiL> 2. Klaus Knopper is paranoid, he doesn't even put the nvidia driver on the disk, because the compression could be to much modification.....
[02:35] <incubii> yeah thats why you use a remaster
[02:35] <KaiL> now compare that to ubuntus "linux-restricted-modules" :)
[02:35] <incubii> like moprhix, overclockix, kanotix
[02:35] <KaiL> kanotix is made by an asshole...
[02:35] <Riddell> aseigo_k: no screenshots of kapture I'm afraid
[02:35] <KaiL> I knew him from the knoppix chat - never saw such an arrogant person
[02:35] <Riddell> aseigo_k: yes, something like that
[02:36] <KaiL> who doesn't care at all about licences btw.
[02:36] <incubii> yes i know
[02:36] <incubii> but it does provide what i need
[02:36] <incubii> although probably illegally
[02:36] <KaiL> Riddell: this kapture is like a ghost...
[02:36] <KaiL> no package, no screenshots, no download - is there any line of code already written? ;)
[02:36] <Diablo-D3> aseigo_: hah
[02:37] <Diablo-D3> aseigo_: Im still working up a blog entry over ubuntu
[02:37] <incubii> lol
[02:38] <Diablo-D3> I just cant find anything worth saying that hasnt already been said
[02:38] <incubii> i often thought of remastering knoppix myself to make it more desktop
[02:38] <Diablo-D3> incubii: ... then you'd have the ubuntu live cd.
[02:38] <incubii> rip out all that dev shit as its not needed
[02:38] <Diablo-D3> hell, ubuntu killed knoppix.
[02:38] <incubii> i havent tried them since warty
[02:39] <KaiL> I once had the Idea to replace that devel shit with more localisations
[02:39] <Diablo-D3> (for the record, ubuntu uses a highly modified version of morphix)
[02:39] <KaiL> you can add all localisations from everywhere in the EU, if you remove that and it still works :)
[02:39] <incubii> oh it uses morphix
[02:40] <incubii> wel in that case i might go add to the love that is ubuntu live cd
[02:40] <incubii> :D
[02:40] <incubii> do you know if it includes a HDD installer?
[02:40] <Diablo-D3> the cds come in a pair
[02:40] <Diablo-D3> one is a live cd, the other is an installer
[02:41] <incubii> ill take that as no the live cd can not be installed from
[02:41] <Tm_T> propably not easily
[02:41] <KaiL> there's a todo entry for that somewhere in the UDO-wiki :)
[02:42] <incubii> installing from a live cd is pretty easy
[02:42] <Diablo-D3> incubii: installing the live cd is pretty silly
[02:42] <Diablo-D3> its setup specifically to be a live cd
[02:42] <incubii> supporting multiple OS's makes it a lil more challenging
[02:43] <Tm_T> Diablo-D3: hmm, so why it can't include network installer?
[02:43] <aseigo_k> Riddell: http://aseigo.bddf.ca/dms/2/181_dotKDEKubuntu.tar.gz <-- various ~/.kde tweakings
[02:44] <aseigo_k> Riddell: including sidebars for file management and web browsing that may make more sense
[02:44] <incubii> have to wait till im at work again to download the live cd
[02:44] <Diablo-D3> Tm_T: because you arent paying for the discs
[02:44] <Diablo-D3> Mark is
[02:44] <Diablo-D3> and mark says "HERE! HAVE TWO!"
[02:44] <Riddell> aseigo_k: cool, will take a keek at it
[02:44] <aseigo_k> Riddell: it would be nice to eventually set up gpg and kwallet for a user automagically =)
[02:44] <Tm_T> I say "gimme twenty!"
[02:45] <Tm_T> :)
[02:45] <Riddell> aseigo_k: yes, been thinking about that.  do you think it's safe/possible to use the system password?
[02:47] <KaiL> Mark should spend me a testing PC :)
[02:47] <aseigo_k> Riddell: yes, i think it is..
[02:47] <KaiL> maybe a i915 based laptop, they are really hard nuts *gg*
[02:47] <aseigo_k> Riddell: of course, i'm the person who uses no password on kwallet ;)
[02:47] <aseigo_k> Riddell: but i don't see why the system password wouldn't be good enough for kwallet
[02:48] <Diablo-D3> what really sucks is I ordered one pair of ubuntu cds
[02:48] <Riddell> I set kwallet to never close (unless reboot)
[02:49] <Diablo-D3> and I got 5
[02:49] <Diablo-D3> and I have no clue what to do with them
[02:49] <Riddell> I should talk to the ubuntu security dude about that
[02:49] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: give to your friends
[02:50] <Diablo-D3> almost all the people that I know that can run linux already do
[02:50] <Diablo-D3> and the rest there is no way in hell I'm supporting them
[02:50] <Tm_T> Oh yes! This one really works!
[02:50] <KaiL> so get them away from SuSE, Fedora or MDK :)
[02:51] <Diablo-D3> no, most of them run slackware or debian
[02:51] <Tm_T> ok, I use bluefish atm then :)
[02:51] <aseigo_k> bluefish? uck.
[02:51] <KaiL> debian users are easy to catch :)
[02:52] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: i take it you really didn't like Quanta?
[02:52] <Tm_T> Debian <3
[02:52] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: crashes too often
[02:52] <KaiL> ...as kubuntu is debian, a much enhanced debian
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> well
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> it _is_ debian
[02:53] <Tm_T> not really
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> debian developers are all jumping ship for ubuntu
[02:53] <Tm_T> it is debian based
[02:53] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: using the GUI editor, or the regular editor, or previewing, or?
[02:53] <KaiL> quanta is slow+unstable, bluefish is gtk
[02:53] <Diablo-D3> the only ones left are ones that we really dont want over here anyhow
[02:53] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: just testing really
[02:53] <Riddell> ian|static: just saw your wiki page, welcome along
[02:54] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: I try to find the html editor for me
[02:54] <Tm_T> hm
[02:54] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: you think, (k)ubuntu will replace debian some day soon?
[02:54] <Diablo-D3> KaiL: it pretty much already has
[02:54] <Tm_T> KaiL: gtk isnt that bad ;)
[02:54] <Tm_T> Diablo-D3: not really
[02:55] <Tm_T> in server use
[02:55] <KaiL> I don't know...
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> more and more users are switching to ubuntu
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> Tm_T: server use is a different market
[02:55] <Tm_T> yes :)
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> so I'm not talking about them
[02:55] <Riddell> Diablo-D3: actually I've noticed more gentoo developers than debian developers
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> and the server use market is totally fucked
[02:55] <KaiL> for desktops yes, as debian is "outdated by design"
[02:55] <Diablo-D3> like, take in the fact that a lot of companies _require_ vender support
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> by require, I mean they must purchace a product. With money.
[02:56] <nmorse> I'd say as long as Ubuntu relies on Debian, it can't replace it
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> You know, the idiot phbs who buy redhat
[02:56] <nmorse> Now they have Novell too
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> so the server market probably will never be dominated by a real distro
[02:56] <Diablo-D3> so I'm just going to safely ignore servers
[02:56] <aseigo_k> i work with such people every day
[02:57] <aseigo_k> and there are real reasons why they do what they do
[02:57] <aseigo_k> it's not that they are stupid or incapable or any of those things
[02:57] <Diablo-D3> aseigo_k: none of which I accept.
[02:57] <KaiL> at least in #ubuntu are 500 people, in #debian "only" 750 (they were ~1000 not far ago!)
[02:57] <aseigo_k> well, i suppose we each choose whether to accept reality or not.
 oh, but its great to have support! <bofh> You do realize that I know more than all of redhat combined, right?
[02:57] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: do you remember which actions caused crashes in quanta?
[02:58] <Diablo-D3> So, its either a) buy support b) hire an onsite tech
[02:58] <aseigo_k> phb: yes, and when we can your ass over your shite attitude, we can replace you quite nicely
[02:58] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: I added some tags and then POW ;)
[02:58] <Diablo-D3> bofh: *pushes phb out the window*
[02:58] <aseigo_k> Tm_T: crazy...
[02:58] <Tm_T> aseigo_k: you tell me =)
[02:58] <KaiL> nmorse: maybe deian will get reduced to sid - everything else is done by ubuntu and another such project for servers...
[02:59] <nmorse> It would be neat, but Testing has a place
[02:59] <Diablo-D3> btw, ubuntu may not kill debian
[03:00] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: as I said - replace...
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> it may either swollow it, or reduce it to a server oriented debian-based distro
[03:00] <nmorse> I honestly think Debian will continue to survive for servers and as the father of Debian-derived distros
[03:00] <KaiL> debian will be some kind of "meta distribution"
[03:00] <nmorse> It already is a meta-distro with a bunch of sub-distros built in
[03:00] <nmorse> like debian jr. and debian-edu
[03:00] <KaiL> yes
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> heh
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> so what is ubuntu then?
[03:00] <Diablo-D3> debian-desktop?
[03:01] <nmorse> A debian-derived distro
[03:01] <KaiL> yes :)
[03:01] <nmorse> A wholly separate project based on the original
[03:01] <KaiL> and there comes one point, which might be interesting for comercial vendors:
[03:01] <KaiL> all these distributions share one binary compatible package database!
[03:03] <KaiL> you can mix ubuntu and debian as much as you want, it'll never break
[03:03] <KaiL> ever tried that with suse + redhat? :)
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> this is why I wish I could get rid of redhat and company
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> rpm is a broken concept
[03:03] <KaiL> rpm is the hell itself
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> apt-get/dpkg was almost designed for cool shit like this
[03:03] <nmorse> rpm is hell, but mixing Ubuntu and Debian packages can cause problems
[03:03] <Diablo-D3> I dare you to try apt-get... rpm-get... rpm-whatever upgrade to suse from redhat
[03:04] <nmorse> I once "upgraded" Linspire to Debian to see if it could be done
[03:04] <nmorse> After all, they're apt packages, right? Took 3 hours to sort out dependencies for KDE alone
[03:04] <Diablo-D3> lol
[03:04] <nmorse> And Ubuntu's binaries are built separate from Debian's, so who knows what could happen
[03:04] <Diablo-D3> sid -> ubuntu worked fine for me, btw
[03:05] <StR_gt> Hi all
[03:05] <nmorse> Sid can go to anything quite easily, as can any whole conversion
[03:05] <nmorse> It's partial mixing that produces problems
[03:05] <nmorse> And apt-pinning is only a partial solution
[03:05] <Tm_T> hmm
[03:05] <StR_gt> anyone else having problems with amarok with the the playlist of internet radios?
[03:05] <Tm_T> I think Debian stable has it's place
[03:06] <Tm_T> why all my friends are offline :/
[03:07] <Tm_T> must be the time of day or something
[03:08] <KaiL> nmorse: problems like "apps doesn't work, because libs are missing"?
[03:08] <KaiL> anybody ever tried "synce-kde" in reallife?
[03:08] <KaiL> nmorse: and?
[03:08] <StR_gt> synce?
[03:09] <KaiL> *dang* hmm, someone sits on my line
[03:09] <KaiL> to much MS around? ;)
[03:09] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: sarge -> ubuntu worked well here too
[03:09] <KaiL> I have downgraded some packages manually to have "a real ubuntu" :)
[03:09] <Diablo-D3> and aseigo's setup worked afaik
[03:09] <KaiL> StR_gt: windows ce connectivity
[03:09] <Diablo-D3> yeah, Im not too worried about downgrading
[03:09] <Tm_T> :)
[03:09] <KaiL> Diablo-D3: does sudo work for you?
[03:10] <Diablo-D3> yes
[03:10] <KaiL> including asking for a password...
[03:10] <Diablo-D3> but its not setup from ubuntu
[03:10] <KaiL> it didn't ask here the first time...
[03:10] <Diablo-D3> so my sudo is passowrdless, and I still have root.
[03:11] <KaiL> I have root and a sudo asking for a PW :)
[03:11] <Diablo-D3> probably because your sudo isnt setup correctly
[03:12] <KaiL> hm?
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> add yourself to /etc/sudoers
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> username  ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
[03:12] <KaiL> it behaves the same as in a "real" kubuntu
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> and you need to do this with visudo
[03:12] <Diablo-D3> well, you're the one bitching about the password =P
[03:13] <KaiL> you missunderstood me
[03:13] <KaiL> just after the upgrade it didn't ask for a PW
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> heh, who knows
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> probably a glitch
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> btw, wtf does ubuntu use for ppp?
[03:13] <KaiL> now (I think I fixed that with the downgrades) it does
[03:13] <Diablo-D3> the standard ppp shit or wvdial?
[03:14] <Diablo-D3> afk
[03:14] <KaiL> wvdial is only some kind of frontend afair
[03:15] <KaiL> am I the only one having a broken "Synchronisation" icon in kontact?
[03:17] <KaiL> ah, ok, you don#t ;)
[03:17] <KaiL> ...because I also don't have any more, after finding out, that there's something missing
[03:18] <whiskers> kkathman, are you there now
[03:18] <whiskers> kkathman, i found the problem with out of sync stuff
[03:19] <whiskers> kkathman, unfortunately it appears to be gstreamer plugins and stuff that need to be recompiled with the latest codec libraries
[03:19] <whiskers> kkathman, totem-xine is synching quite well
[03:20] <whiskers> kkathman, but totem-gstreamer seems to be the problem
[03:20] <closure> MPlayer > xine
[03:21] <closure> definitely totem-xine
[03:21] <whiskers> closure, yes MPlayer syncs very well also...but kkathman doesn't have it
[03:21] <closure> well ditch totem and get MPlayer
[03:21] <closure> and XMMS
[03:21] <closure> that is all you will need for a well rounded balanced media diet >8-)
[03:22] <whiskers> closure, i wasted several days working on the wrong stuff when it was the gstreamer stuff that needs to be updated against the latest libraries
[03:22] <closure> i don't *think* either of those apps rely on gstreamer
[03:22] <whiskers> closure, well totem relies on the gstreamer plugins
[03:22] <closure> they both worked "right out of the box"
[03:23] <whiskers> closure, the whole gstreamer needs to be recompiled
[03:23] <closure> right so why use an app that requires random ass plugins
[03:25] <closure> why not use a minimalist approach?
[03:28] <whiskers> closure, well it took time to find the problem because there were many variables involved....and i just assumed totem-gstreamer was working
[03:28] <whiskers> closure, i made a bad assumption
[03:29] <Cowlike-away> random ass plugins? i'd think any sort of ass plugin would be bad
[03:29] <closure> oh
[03:29] <cartel_> sigh
[03:29] <closure> Cowlike, depends on who's plugin
[03:29] <cartel_> Cowlike: depends on whos ass is being plugged
[03:29] <closure> i mean if that's what britney spears is into
[03:29] <Cowlike> lol
[03:29] <closure> it's the price of the ticket man
[03:30] <cartel_> closure: tawny roberts :o
[03:30] <closure> and if i bought the ticket you better believe i'm taking the ride
[03:30] <closure> cartel_, jordan capri >8-)
[03:30] <Cowlike> *<------
[03:31] <closure> i'd straight put in work on that ass
[03:31] <cartel_> closure: taylor rain
[03:31] <closure> i'd need a time card for by the end of it all
[03:31] <cartel_> closure: aurora :o
[03:31] <whiskers> closure, i think totem-gstreamer can work but the entire gstreamer system with plugins,etc...needs to be recompiled against the latest ogg, vorbis, theora libraries...as well as some of the other codecs which are not synching either
[03:32] <closure> whiskers, i'm sure it can work
[03:32] <closure> whiskers, i just don't understand why it was decided to use such dependent apps
[03:32] <whiskers> closure, well because they came installed on hoary
[03:32] <whiskers> closure, so i just assumed they were working and went in the wrong direction to fix the problem
[03:33] <closure> but who decided to put them on hoary?:
[03:33] <closure> i'm not saying you're the reason
[03:33] <whiskers> closure, how do i know...i did not engineer hoary
[03:33] <closure> lol
[03:33] <closure> it was retorical
[03:34] <Chin2> does anybody here use enlightenment?
[03:34] <closure> wow haven't heard that one in a while
[03:35] <closure> i was thinking of slapping after step on here
[03:35] <Chin2> I'm using it, I just have a question
[03:35] <chavo> afterstep, now that's oldschool.
[03:35] <Chin2> I can't select "enlightenment" at login, I have to go through windowmaker to start it.
[03:35] <Chin2> not sure if that's how it has to be.
[03:35] <closure> chavo, for real but i want to see if it would just crash or run like lightning
[03:36] <Chin2> I have afterstep installed too, it's very fast :)
[03:36] <chavo> closure, afterstep still works
[03:36] <closure> Chin2, did you compile from source or use a pkg
[03:36] <closure> is there an afterstep pkg?
[03:36] <closure> *starts to consider this idea*
[03:36] <Chin2> closure, I used packages for all of 'em
[03:37] <Chin2> enlightenment is awesome.
[03:38] <Chin2> check out this screenshot
[03:38] <Chin2> http://www.friendlyskies.net/enlighten1.png
[03:38] <Chin2> can't show the animation unfortunately :)
[03:38] <chavo> Chin2, there should be an entry for enlightenment in the session menu
[03:38] <KaiL> isn't that the WM with "last updated in 1996"?
[03:38] <Chin2> chavo, there isn't :(
[03:38] <whiskers> well if anybody sees kkathman...tell him i would like to try a trailer on his totem-xine and see how he likes the free codecs
[03:38] <closure> oh crunk it's skinned like a mac
[03:39] <whiskers> they are not so bad...it is just the gstreamer stuff that needs to be updated
[03:39] <Chin2> closure, that's the most mature-looking theme I could find for it :)
[03:39] <Chin2> everything else looks like it belongs in Hackers
[03:40] <closure> haha
[03:41] <closure> what's wrong with h4ck th3 pl4n3t! aRF aRF!
[03:41] <closure> i love that movie
[03:41] <closure> it's so exciting
[03:43] <Chin2> my wife refuses to use anything that is darker than the back of my closet
[03:43] <Chin2> :)
[03:43] <nmorse> anyone know why the ubuntu-java project repos don't work now?
[03:43] <closure> ?
[03:43] <closure> Chin2, just cause i have no shame i'm going to ask exactly what you're talking about
[03:43] <nmorse> the /pub/ubuntu-java/ folder on neacm.fe.up.pt doesn't exist anymore
[03:44] <Chin2> closure, sorry, referring to all the dark themes for enlightenment
[03:45] <whiskers> in my opinion ubuntu needs to get breezy out with lidb4.3 and the correct libc...for the database stuff...and get all the gstreamer stuff recompiled against the latest codecs....and then start people designing on a decent system
[03:45] <whiskers> and drop hoary very fast
[03:45] <Chin2> whiskers, what does all that mean?
[03:45] <Chin2> libc...libdb
[03:45] <Chin2> and what sort of design are you talking about?
[03:46] <Chin2> sorry, I'm a newb
[03:46] <whiskers> Chin2, well there were some fundamental changes and the developers using ubuntu need to start on a good footing
[03:46] <Chin2> oh, ok
[03:46] <cartel_> whiskers: decent system?
[03:47] <cartel_> whiskers: for starters not all codecs will go in (see restrictedformats)
[03:47] <whiskers> cartel_, well of course...we don't want the restricted ones...except where read only permission is allowed....we can do what we want with the free ones...they are pretty good.
[03:48] <whiskers> cartel_, that is for US Legal stuff...overseas i don't know the situation...if those codecs are allowed or not..
[03:49] <SpookyET> why is linux eating so much memory?
[03:49] <whiskers> cartel_, and the proprietary codec mfgs...can sell a linux version to anyone that wants them...just like the cedega guys
[03:49] <SpookyET> i got 4 MiB of RAM lefk
[03:49] <SpookyET> left*
[03:50] <Tm_T> SpookyET: hmm, how I tell this... linux use "free" memory as a cache or buffer, if some app need it, cache/buffer gives a room
[03:51] <SpookyET> weird
[03:51] <Tm_T> not at all
[03:51] <SpookyET> that means that it is a penalty there. it has to free the mem before the write in the buffer
[03:51] <Tm_T> afficient
[03:51] <Tm_T> e
[03:51] <Tm_T> SpookyET: nope
[03:52] <Tm_T> ok, I can't explain it correctly
[03:52] <SpookyET> is that like OS X is using cache?
[03:53] <cartel_> whiskers: actually there is nothing stopping inclusion of the formats except fear of prosecution. ubuntu isnt even hosted in the usa so us legal is a non issue
[03:54] <cartel_> whiskers: they dont even need to "sell" their codec, they just need to license the algorythms. except where software patents are concerned (dubious legality) XviD and LAME are free to use
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> I wonder why xvid and lame are illegal
[03:55] <cartel_> whiskers: but fraunhofer licensing MP3 to lame for free use would eliminate the question of patents too.
[03:55] <cartel_> they arent illegal
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> I mean, they're open source for christ's sake
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> they're 'illegal'
[03:55] <whiskers> cartel_, well that is right...there is no need for US Laws to apply to anyone else...I am just  speaking for people who live here...as I understand the debates
[03:55] <cartel_> they are questionable
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> in as such, they are using IP that they havent been liscensed to
[03:55] <cartel_> and only if you assume that a software patent is valid, which it isnt
[03:56] <Diablo-D3> I agree its not valid
[03:56] <Diablo-D3> but in the US, it is
[03:56] <whiskers> cartel_, well i know the debates...but i am telling you what these control freak judges have said in the US
[03:56] <Diablo-D3> but that isnt quite it, it should never apply to foss software
[03:56] <Cowlike> if foss software uses patented algorithms, then it applies
[03:57] <Cowlike> in the US anyway
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: and it shouldnt
[03:57] <cartel_> whiskers: i dont see a valid injunction based on software patent violation yet
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> but I never said US law made sense =/
[03:57] <Cowlike> "should" and "legal" are no necessarily the same :)
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> it rarely does
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> I wish I had the money to move to canada
[03:57] <sproingie> the judges are not control freaks.  they're doing their job
[03:57] <Tm_T> SpookyET: perhaps, afaik OS X is based on freeBSD
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> and get away from all this bullshit
[03:57] <sproingie> the patent holders are the control freaks
[03:57] <nmorse> Moving to Canada is cheap
[03:57] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: no, their job is to punish those who did wrong
[03:57] <whiskers> cartel_, well they passed that DMCA crap and the Patent Law crap and the Patriot Act Crap
[03:58] <nmorse> The American dollar is worth a lot more
[03:58] <sproingie> Diablo-D3: wow.  take a civics class
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: in spirit damnit
[03:58] <nmorse> And Canadian food is better, even fast food
[03:59] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: I'm obviously implying laws should make sense and don't harm society
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> and the majority of US laws don't make sense and/or harm society
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: oh stop it already
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> So, I believe judges are ultimately fucked
[04:01] <cartel_> yeah
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> they are doing wrong, they know they are doing wrong, and they are forced to follow the laws
[04:02] <cartel_> i wish the americans would hurry up and have a civil war and oust bush
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: or we could just wait three years
[04:02] <Cowlike> i guess you don't know many judges if you think they KNOW they are doing wrong
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> its not like he has power anymore
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: okay, fine, _some_ know they are doing wrong
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> I was attempting to be nice for once
[04:03] <cartel_> and his administration, in fact the entire federal govt should be torn down and start again from scratch
[04:03] <Cowlike> bush doesn't have power?
[04:03] <Cowlike> are you fucking nuts?
[04:03] <Cowlike> republicans control both houses too
[04:03] <cartel_> Cowlike: bush's puppet masters have the power
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> well, the old people hate him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> the young people hate him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> the military hates him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> I hate him
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> canada hates him
[04:03] <Cowlike> that's just not true about the military
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> the majority of europe hates him
[04:03] <cartel_> dude
[04:04] <cartel_> he halved combat pay
[04:04] <cartel_> of course they hate him
[04:04] <nmorse> Asia hates him
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> yeah what cartel_ said
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> asia hates him
[04:04] <Cowlike> i was in the military and i know a LOT of military people
[04:04] <cartel_> he cut their military healthcare plan
[04:04] <sproingie> apparently enough folks liked him enough
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> africa, if they wernt busy starving to death and dying from aids, would hate him
[04:04] <Cowlike> and what you're saying is bullshit
[04:04] <nmorse> No, enough people hated John Kerry more
[04:04] <Cowlike> they hated clinton a LOT more for slashing pay AND closing bases
[04:04] <Tm_T> damn, sun is rising =)
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> Cowlike: well, either the military hates him, or the military is fucking stupid
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> take your pick
[04:04] <nmorse> I personally hated both "major" presidential candidates
[04:04] <sproingie> wasnt it george H.W. who started closing bases?
[04:05] <nmorse> I supported Badnarik
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> clinton closed a small ammount
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> ones that wernt being used anymore
[04:05] <sproingie> so, how about that kubuntu thing, eh?
[04:05] <Cowlike> lol
[04:05] <Cowlike> sproingie, is that on topic here?
[04:06] <sproingie> probably not
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> there was a lot of bitching about it, but the money could be put somewhere else
[04:06] <Tm_T> heh, sun is rising, and I haven't even slept at all :p
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> btw, what the fucking hell is with the f22 program
[04:06] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: i thought they were already in use?
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> we've been working on that thing for like 50 years, and sunk trillions of dollars into that program
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> and we still dont have a fully functioning f22
[04:06] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: you mean lightning / raptor / grey ghost?
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> yup, raptor
[04:07] <cartel_> i thought it was complete
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> afiak it isnt
[04:07] <sproingie> welcome to #military-industrial-complex
[04:07] <cartel_> grey ghost was better
[04:07] <cartel_> it has a laser
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> lasers are bad
[04:07] <sproingie> ooh lasers are good
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> lasers blind people
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> and thats all its useful for
[04:08] <cartel_> http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20943~2836036,00.html
[04:08] <sproingie> i forget, are the good guy lasers red or blue?
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> its not like its an actual weapon
[04:08] <cartel_> they also punch holes in enemy planes
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: blue
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: which it doesnt nearly have enough power for that
[04:08] <cartel_> sproingie: transparent
[04:08] <SpookyET> to whom should /boot/grub/menu.lst belong? it belongs to root, yet I always have to type configfile /boot/grub/menu.lst at boot
[04:08] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: its a class IV chemical laser
[04:08] <SpookyET> it does not do it automatically
[04:08] <cartel_> read a book
[04:08] <wallen> anyone running the openoffice.org 2.0 beta on kubuntu?
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: which requires *gasp!* power
[04:09] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: its powered by a chemical reaction
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> er?
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> *dubious
[04:09] <sproingie> cartel_: nuh uh, they're always colored bolts that zip across at, like almost the speed of sound and stuff and they make PSHEEW PSHEEW sounds!
[04:09] <cartel_> you've never heard of a chemical laser?
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> btw, wtf with that url
[04:10] <SpookyET> hidemenu is commented out
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> that url is implying that the military is happy with that
[04:11] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: sorry do you know top echelon military personell who dont like it?
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> No, but I know Bush has something to do with this
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: and, oh, moving targets.
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: and tin foil.
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> bah, you never heard of warp drives?
[04:12] <cartel_> anyway, its stupid to build a plane like f22 lightning when the comparable plane is the Berkut, which would whip its ass
[04:12] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: obviously you dont know much about lasers
[04:12] <sproingie> i admit, a laser will have a hard time hitting a target at warp speed
[04:13] <cartel_> sproingie: use a phaser
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: yeah, and the russians have that shit now
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: you are missing the sarcasm, arnt you?
[04:13] <sproingie> Diablo-D3: warp drive?  damn sneaky russkies.
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: yeah, and they have cloaking devices too
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: but remember, you have to think at it in russian!
[04:13] <sproingie> shit, there could be one in my living room, ARGH
[04:14] <Diablo-D3> ... thats a pretty big living room
 Look at our new plane, its the F22 lightning!
 we've been waiting for this! lets unveil the berkut at an airshow!
 damn, guess we cocked that one up
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> wtf is this berkut anyhow?
[04:15] <cartel_> Sukhoi Su-37 Berkhut
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> btw, my most serious thoughts about the f22, is that it may absolutely suck
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> its taken too long to design and manufacturer and fix so it doesnt reboot in flight
[04:16] <sproingie> frankly, the flying platform is kind of secondary to avionics.  and it's not like we don't upgrade those
[04:16] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: http://members.aol.com/offshoreel/Bilder/su37.jpg
[04:16] <cartel_> look at the wings
[04:17] <Diablo-D3> .... it flies?
[04:17] <sproingie> top gun style dogfights might be sexy but one good AMRAAM stops 'em before you even see 'em
[04:17] <cartel_> its the worlds only thrust vectoring fighter
[04:17] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: yeah, but eventually we'll have AIs who hack missle computers in seconds
[04:18] <sproingie> uhh sure
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> wasnt the f22 supposed to be thrust vectoring?
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: </gits:sac>
[04:18] <sproingie> f22 program is obsolete, dude.  they switched to JSF
[04:18] <sproingie> now *that* has been held up for a while
[04:18] <sproingie> since the navy and AF can't agree
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> hah jsf is like dead
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly
[04:18] <cartel_> ef2k :p
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> but I wonder why they continued with the f22
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> it took too long to be that useful
[04:19] <nmorse> You know, the reason I got this distribution was the excellent hardware support
[04:19] <nmorse> and while I'll admit it go my wireless off the bat, my sound still doesn't work
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> though, I do like the look of it
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> I always have
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> nmorse: what sound chip?
[04:20] <sproingie> nmorse: i betcha ubuntu won't support the FA-18 avionics
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: I dunno man
[04:20] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: If Linux wont boot on it, I bet netbsd will
[04:21] <sproingie> netbsd's probably been ported to eniac
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> probably
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> it already runs on both my toaster and microwave
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> but back to the f22
[04:21] <sproingie> Z-80s in those, most likely
[04:21] <Diablo-D3> you're lying if you cant upgrade f15s to perform<PHONE_NUMBER>5908 times better
[04:22] <cartel_> the f22 has a geforce 2 :)
[04:22] <sproingie> 2 g's is namby.  you can pull that in a car.
[04:22] <sproingie> oh.  duh.
[04:22] <Diablo-D3> -_-
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> I wish they would get the jsf program going
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> the f22 was designed to replace the f15
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> except it cant replace the f16
[04:23] <sproingie> i wish they'd fund the rest of the country so there's something left to defend
[04:23] <Diablo-D3> and the f15 cant do the job that the f16 does, and vice versa
[04:24] <Diablo-D3> the jsf, of course, is supposed to replace the f16
[04:24] <Diablo-D3> so, the f22 is going to be pretty retarded teaming up with f16s because the government cant figure out how to get jsf working
[04:24] <sproingie> whatever.  back to perlnomic
[04:25] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: f22 cant replace f16?
[04:25] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: its not designed to, no
[04:25] <Diablo-D3> though, I'm not sure why you couldnt just produce an f22 that replaces the f16
[04:26] <sproingie> i suspect anything we design now will be aimed at chinese air power, not russian
[04:26] <Diablo-D3> chinese air power... isnt.
[04:26] <sproingie> zactly
[04:26] <sproingie> not yet.  so we're waiting and seeing
[04:26] <Diablo-D3> I dont know why we just dont sell them shit
[04:27] <Diablo-D3> maybe we dont want a repeat of israel
[04:27] <cartel_> wait didnt a chinese interceptor shoot down that spyplane?
[04:27] <sproingie> nope
[04:27] <sproingie> collided with it when they buzzed it
[04:27] <sproingie> got a lil' too close i guess
[04:27] <cartel_> ahh yep
[04:27] <sproingie> killed the pilot
[04:27] <Diablo-D3> so.. it was an accident?
[04:27] <sproingie> unless the chinese military doctrine includes kamikaze attacks, yes
[04:28] <cartel_> chinese military doctrine is geurilla warfare
[04:28] <Diablo-D3> chinese military doctrine is do anything to win
[04:28] <sproingie> cartel_: guerilla warfare, not even.  more like massive force, russian style
[04:29] <Diablo-D3> goliath online!
[04:29] <sproingie> they're modernizing like crazy tho
[04:29] <Diablo-D3> er, wait, thats korean, nm
[04:30] <Diablo-D3> I'm still waiting for japan to produce gundams
[04:31] <cartel_> sproingie: who invented guerilla warfare?
[04:31] <Tm_T> o/
[04:31] <cartel_> "when the enemy attacks, retreat. when the enemy retreats, attack" who said that?
[04:32] <Diablo-D3> sun tzu?
[04:32] <cartel_> Diablo-D3: get real
[04:32] <cartel_> mao zedong
[04:32] <Tm_T> dingdong
[04:33] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: oh right
[04:33] <SpookyEt> what's that command that makes fonts look better?
[04:33] <Diablo-D3> SpookyEt: kcontrol
[04:34] <Tm_T> font --look-nicer ?
[04:34] <Tm_T> ;p
[04:34] <Diablo-D3> I dont like the look of the f22 cockpit, btw
[04:34] <Diablo-D3> its too goddamn busy
[04:34] <SpookyEt> show pic
[04:35] <SpookyEt> f22 is useless anyway
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> SpookyEt: not quite
[04:35] <SpookyEt> it was designed in th 80s to fight the soviets
[04:35] <SpookyEt> it's got no function now
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> it fills the gap the f15 will leave once its taken out of service
[04:35] <SpookyEt> waste of money
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> no, SpookyEt
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> the f15 was designed in the 80s
[04:35] <SpookyEt> do you have any idea how expensive it is?
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> (they're about 15 years old now)
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> yes, roughly $84 million a plane
[04:36] <SpookyEt> i know that the f117 and b2 are flying bricks
[04:36] <SpookyEt> show  me a pic of the cockpit
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> if the f15 was new, it'd be on the scale of around $200 million a plane
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> like I said, I have no pics on hand
[04:38] <SpookyEt> the pilots said that a dude that can fly a cesna can fly the f22
[04:38] <SpookyEt> so what you see as busy, is not for them
[04:38] <cartel_> im just pointing out to sproingie that chinese military doctrine is geurilla warfare :)
[04:38] <SpookyEt> i like the sucoi
[04:38] <cartel_> arent plane cockpits insanely busy anyway?
[04:38] <Diablo-D3> well, it has four seperate heads-down displays
[04:38] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: yeah
[04:39] <Diablo-D3> but it just seems a little much for me
[04:39] <SpookyEt> sukhoi su-27
[04:39] <cartel_> are you a pilot?
[04:39] <SpookyEt> it is the most manuverable plane ever
[04:39] <cartel_> SpookyEt: yes the sukhoi is awesome
[04:39] <Diablo-D3> cartel_: unfortunately, no
[04:39] <SpookyEt> too damn expensive
[04:39] <cartel_> SpookyEt: i doubt very much it will be defeated in a dogfight by any other plane
[04:40] <cartel_> SpookyEt: they only need 2 of them :)
[04:40] <SpookyEt> i'd be paying school loans until i'm 50 if i was to become a pilot
[04:40] <sproingie> eh?  military will take you for nothing.
[04:40] <SpookyEt> i've seen some cool acrobatics
[04:40] <cartel_> sproingie and he'll never get into academy
[04:40] <Diablo-D3> http://www.f22fighter.com/f22comparison.jpg
[04:40] <SpookyEt> sproingie: flat feet, problems with one eye
[04:40] <Diablo-D3> neat image I found
[04:41] <sproingie> well, eye trouble and no way
[04:41] <cartel_> yf22 is lightning yea?
[04:41] <Diablo-D3> yf22 is prototype I think
[04:41] <SpookyEt> what about the joint strike fighter?
[04:41] <cartel_> yea lightning
[04:42] <Diablo-D3> I like the look of the yf22 better
[04:43] <SpookyEt> is the sukhoi the most manuverable plane ever?
[04:43] <cartel_> yes
[04:43] <cartel_> its the only thrust vectoring fighter
[04:43] <cartel_> i cant seem to find any pics of the grey ghost
[04:43] <SpookyEt> the worst flying brick is probably the shuttle
[04:43] <SpookyEt> http://www.flymig.com/
[04:44] <cartel_> ahhh
[04:44] <cartel_> the plane is actually called the black widow
[04:45] <cartel_> grey ghost was the name of the prototype they build
[04:45] <cartel_> built*
[04:45] <Diablo-D3> YF-23A Gray Ghost
[04:46] <SpookyEt> they all suck compared to UFOs
[04:46] <cartel_> they all suck compared to aurora
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> http://content.miw.com.sg/LifeStyle/Military/Images/20040514_combat_aircraft03.jpg
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> http://content.miw.com.sg/LifeStyle/Military/Images/20040514_combat_aircraft04.jpg
[04:46] <cartel_> i mean seriously how can you out dogfight a plane that doesnt exist
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> thats the gray ghost
[04:47] <SpookyEt> aurora looks like crap
[04:47] <cartel_> SpookyEt: it doesnt really exist does it?
[04:47] <SpookyEt> maybe it does, maybe it does not
[04:48] <cartel_> even if it does exist, it is obseleted
[04:48] <SpookyEt> but at mac 6, you probably have to fill it with a super tanker every 100 miles
[04:48] <Diablo-D3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YF-23
[04:48] <Diablo-D3> black widow
[04:52] <SpookyEt> comanche was cool
[04:52] <cartel_> comanche sux
[04:52] <cartel_> american helicopters sux
[04:52] <SpookyEt> got a better one?
[04:53] <SpookyEt> with stealth?
[04:53] <cartel_> yes
[04:53] <Tm_T> no, keep your pants up
[04:53] <cartel_> kamov ka-50 black shark
[04:53] <cartel_> kamov ka-52 alligator
[04:55] <narg> so I was following the guide to installing wine on the ubuntu forums. And when I get to the install fonts part, every time I run what it goes: wine: error while loading shared libraries: libwine.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[04:55] <narg> how would I fix that / what went wrong?
[04:56] <SpookyEt> http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/fighterdisc.html
[05:05] <Riddell> aseigo_: what was the Story then?
[05:18] <Tm_T> ah, secured ircin' :)
[05:30] <Ni7r0> hi I have just installed GCC-3.4 with kynaptic, but where is it located? i try <which gcc> but it can't find it, i must have it for installing vmware tools :'(
[05:31] <Riddell> roadmap approved!
[05:33] <Ni7r0> btw what is wrong with the upgradable kdelibs-data ?
[05:34] <Tm_T> broken package?
[05:34] <Ni7r0> i installed it 5 times now, but it is still in the upgradable window
[05:34] <Ni7r0> broken ?
[05:35] <Ni7r0> how can that be, i just installed kubuntu a hour ago
[05:36] <Tm_T> Ni7r0: check topic?
[05:36] <Ni7r0> ok nice one :]
[05:36] <Ni7r0> its late..
[05:38] <Ni7r0> ok and how about gcc, i have installed gcc with kynaptic, but i can't find it anywhere [ sorry for my n00b questions, just trying linux ]
[05:39] <Ni7r0> i need it to compile vmware-tools or something
[05:43] <nicc> i don't know if any of you guys know that they came out with patch to fix nvidia driver from locking up the whole system?
[05:44] <Chin2> Roadmap: "GCC 4 comes with a new C++ ABI"
[05:47] <whiskers> ok..who has a website that can host this trailer so people can see their free theora,vorbis codecs....and examine the issues and see where the code needs to go
[05:48] <whiskers> i have done all i can .
[05:48] <Tm_T> nicc: nvidia locks whole system?
[05:48] <Tm_T> whiskers: hmm, maybe?
[05:49] <whiskers> is there anyone that has skype to get the file and host it for others to see how their systems are behaving
[05:49] <whiskers> it is about 100megs for the 7 minute trailer
[05:49] <Tm_T> hmm
[05:49] <nicc> Tm_T: yes after u install nvidia driver and after u enable "RenderAccel" on
[05:49] <Tm_T> heh
[05:50] <Tm_T> nicc: doesn't do that in my pc
[05:50] <Tm_T> whiskers: don't have skype, but dcc would work
[05:50] <nicc> Tm_T: what do u have for a video card?
[05:51] <Tm_T> nicc: 5700
[05:51] <whiskers> Tm_T, dcc can't get past this NAT stuff...but i have been able to upload to kkathman on skype
[05:51] <whiskers> Tm_T, it is the only thing i have for uploading at this time
[05:51] <Tm_T> whiskers: hmm, ssh?
[05:51] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't think it will get past NAT
[05:51] <Tm_T> ok
[05:52] <whiskers> Tm_T, i tried many things with kkathman and so far only skype seems to know how to get past the NAT stuff
[05:52] <Tm_T> some "upload here" website thing may work
[05:52] <nicc> Tm_T: u have "RenderAccel" on or off?
[05:52] <Tm_T> nicc: on
[05:53] <whiskers> if anybody has some spare room on their website...this should help the developers test and adjust their sync mechanisms if they think improvement is needed
[05:53] <nicc> that's weird
[05:53] <nicc> what kind of motherboard do u have?
[05:53] <Tm_T> whiskers: I do but don't have skype, sorry :/
[05:53] <whiskers> Tm_T, well...i just don't know any other way
[05:54] <whiskers> Tm_T, unless you have some recommendations for me to try
[05:54] <Tm_T> whiskers: I look if I can find solution
[05:54] <Tm_T> nicc: epox, nforce2 chip
[05:55] <nicc> when was the last time u updated ur system?
[05:56] <Tm_T> eh, you mean OS update?
[05:56] <Tm_T> whiskers: you tested dcc in irc?
[05:56] <whiskers> well i am very tired it has been several days on this issue...but the test file is there for those who are interested in the free codecs.
[05:56] <Tm_T> whiskers: wanna try ssh?
[05:56] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't know how to use ssh
[05:56] <Tm_T> heh
[05:57] <Tm_T> ok, you have ssh installed?
[05:57] <zabu> i'm starting to get very tired of kubuntu killing my firefox
[05:57] <whiskers> Tm_T, i can get it
[05:57] <Tm_T> ok
[05:57] <whiskers> Tm_T, no it is installed but you tell me how to use it
[05:58] <Tm_T> just addusr me and place that file into my homedir in there
[05:58] <Tm_T> so I download it
[05:58] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok give me the exact commands
[05:58] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't have sshd...just ssh
[05:58] <Tm_T> its all the same
[05:58] <Tm_T> afaik
[05:59] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok...well give me the exact commands...and i will try
[05:59] <Tm_T> ok, I'll make this easier
[05:59] <Tm_T> you know how to use gFTP or others?
[06:00] <whiskers> Tm_T, well it has been a long time since i used ftp....but it was only to download not upload...i don't have ftpd...and even if i did it would not work behind this firewall
[06:01] <Tm_T> I mean, if you have gFTP installed, you can use it to transfer data over ssh
[06:01] <whiskers> Tm_T, well tell me the exact commands...
[06:01] <Tm_T> hmm, I make this very easy, I'll make a account to you into my pc
[06:01] <Tm_T> so you only need to upload it to here
[06:02] <whiskers> Tm_T, the easiest thing is for you to install skype temporarily and let me give you the file
[06:02] <Tm_T> maybe
[06:02] <Tm_T> is it in repos?
[06:02] <whiskers> Tm_T, i don't know
[06:02] <Tm_T> I'll check it
[06:03] <Tm_T> nope :)
[06:03] <whiskers> Tm_T, you probably have to download it from their website...i believe it is free but closed source
[06:03] <Tsjoklat> Tm_T: ubuntuguide.org
[06:04] <Tm_T> whiskers: yes, downloading it
[06:04] <Tm_T> Tsjoklat: err?
[06:04] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok...are you using kde or gnome
[06:04] <Tm_T> KDE
[06:04] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok then you have to pkill artsd when you want to use skype ...ok
[06:05] <Tsjoklat> Tm_T you'll find a lot answers there
[06:05] <Tm_T> Tsjoklat: thank's I know :)
[06:05] <Tsjoklat> Tm_T sorry jumped into the convo :)
[06:05] <Tm_T> :)
[06:05] <Tm_T> np
[06:11] <narg> !
[06:11] <Tm_T> whiskers: ok, should be working now allright
[06:12] <Tm_T> hi darkaudit
[06:12] <whiskers> Tm_T, what is your user name on skype...and be sure that you pkilled artsd and esd just in case
[06:12] <Tm_T> hmm
[06:17] <whiskers> Tm_T, did you get a user name yet
[06:17] <Tm_T> yes, I /msg you
[06:18] <whiskers> ok let me see if i can find you and i will open a chat
[06:18] <Tm_T> :)
[06:29] <tjs> does konq-speaker have alternate voices ?
[07:06] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok..you have the first REAL thing not some leggo junk so get it to the people so they can make whatever code adjustments they think are necessary.
[07:14] <whiskers> Tm_T, watch the actors' lips and listen to the sound and see if the free codecs are adequately synchronized
[07:14] <Tm_T> hmm, ok
[07:16] <whiskers> Tm_T, also be sure to try it in full screen mode.
[07:17] <Tm_T> ofcourse :)
[07:19] <Tm_T> whiskers: eh, my msg don't got ya?
[07:19] <amu> dude, kaffeine is uploaded soon knet will come also, someone can check if knet rocks ?
[07:21] <whiskers> Tm_T, i am here..i was in the kitchen
[07:22] <whiskers> Tm_T, did you try to play it
[07:22] <Tm_T> not yet
[07:22] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok....well be sure to sudo nautilus and make whatever owner/group adjustements are necessary for the file
[07:23] <Tm_T> all suppose to be done
[07:23] <whiskers> Tm_T, and pkill skype to be sure...then restart esd ...not artsd ...and check with totem-xine
[07:24] <whiskers> or restart artsd not esd and check with whatever kde uses.
[07:24] <Tm_T> actually skype shutted itself nicely =)
[07:24] <whiskers> Tm_T, ok..good to know that
[07:35] <brenton> has anyone here installed OOo2 Base??
[07:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> brenton. yes....
[07:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> took i out again though
[07:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> *it
[07:40] <brenton> i can't it on any of the repositories
[07:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> only oo.org irrc.
[07:42] <brenton> i have universe in my source.list
[07:42] <brenton> and a bunch of other repositories.... but all i see is OOo2 sans base
[07:44] <billytwowilly> Is there any way to speed up the thumbnailing in konqueror? When I put my mouse over a file it takes about 5 seconds to get a thumbnail view
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes. just looked in my mirrors and its not there
[07:45] <brenton> i'm stumped
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> i must have had it when i was using doze :|
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> you might have to get it from htier website
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> rpm install using alien
[07:45] <brenton> is it possible to just download Base from OOo?....
[07:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> not afaik
[07:46] <brenton> hmm... i've never done that and am not familiar... but i could probably figure it out sometime when i'm not so pooped
[07:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> if you get the rpm we can help you . its basicly alien -i rpmname.rpm
[07:47] <brenton> that doesn't sound so bad
[07:47] <brenton> i may end up doing that... just not right now.. i should be sleeping ;)
[07:47] <brenton> thanks!
[07:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) all good
[08:39] <whiskers> well i am very tired...the file is up at http://tmtravolta.kapsi.fi/ if anyone wants to test the free codecs on their system.
[08:45] <Riddell> whiskers: can you put a note saying how many MB that .ogg file is on that page
[08:46] <whiskers> Riddell, it is not my website...but it is about 7 minutes of material to examine for improving the code.....the file is about 100megs
[08:46] <whiskers> Riddell, of course don't expect commercial type results...but i think you will see that the free codecs can be useful to the free software community
[08:49] <Riddell> 100megs!  don't think I'll download that given the price of internet here
[08:50] <Riddell> isn't there a different extention for ogg video.  .ogm or something
[08:52] <whiskers> Riddell, no..ogm use vorbis with the commercial mpeg4....and is not free....ogg is a full theora,vorbis combination of free codecs.
[08:52] <whiskers> Riddell, so there is a huge difference as far as the laws in the US goes.
[08:53] <whiskers> for those with a true free software spirit...i think they would like to examine it.
[08:54] <Riddell> mpeg4 in ogg, interesting
[08:54] <Riddell> the ogg video streaming we had at akademy was fantastic
[09:33] <tabmoW> anyone get kubuntu just stopping on the boot after 'scsi [success] '
[09:40] <tabmoW> anyone?
[09:42] <Quinn_Storm> tabmoW: no but it sounds like hotplug is loading a bad driver
[09:42] <tabmoW> so how can i disable it so i can boot up
[09:42] <Quinn_Storm> that I don't know
[09:42] <Neil3> hey all
[09:43] <tabmoW> FUCK
[09:43] <tabmoW> it never did this with the previous hoary one and that wasn't even production
[09:43] <tabmoW> how weird
[09:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[09:45] <tabmoW> is it possible to stop drivers from loading on start?
[09:46] <Neil3> regarding the kdelibs-debug.sh script, should i run it before or after i update?
[09:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> neil3 looks like after, bt not sure
[09:55] <Neil3> hmmz
[09:55] <Neil3> i think i'll hold back on the update till the packages are fixed
[09:55] <Neil3> its only a small security fix afaik
[09:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> not like you need it anyway
[09:55] <Neil3> ya
[09:56] <Neil3> i just like being up to date though
[09:56] <Neil3> there is a patch for kaffine though which fixes its buggyness
[09:56] <Neil3> just installed it and all is perfect!
[09:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[09:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> security patches dont usualy help much. unless you want to be secure
[09:56] <Neil3> i switched from the gnome version of ubuntu so i'm still getting used to the kde way of doing stuff
[09:57] <Neil3> looking for a native kde bit torrent client now
[09:57] <Neil3> most seem to be gtk
[09:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> so you upgraded ubuntu to kubuntu?
[09:57] <Neil3> nope
[09:57] <Neil3> did a clean install
[09:57] <spiral> hi
[09:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[09:57] <spiral> Neil3: qtorrent or smth like this ?
[09:57] <Neil3> cool
[09:57] <Neil3> i'll have a look for em
[09:58] <spiral> Neil3: :-)
[09:58] <Neil3> thanks spiral installing now
[09:58] <Neil3> i'm liking kde over gnome more and more
[09:58] <spiral> Neil3: I agree with you on this point :-)
[09:58] <Quinn_Storm> <3 kde
[09:59] <Neil3> yeah
[09:59] <Neil3> i was more into gnome because my only kde experience was with mandrake a couple of years ago
[09:59] <Neil3> but kde seems way more responsive and faster and better integrated i really like what the kubuntu team did with it
[10:00] <Quinn_Storm> I've never even gotten mdk to install let alone tried their kde
[10:00] <Neil3> yeah i didnt like mdk
[10:01] <Neil3> but it was when i decided to go all out linux on my desktop having had brief flirtations with knoppix and stuff so i was still quite new
[10:01] <Quinn_Storm> yeah, many many years ago my first linux distro (d/l in honest-to-goodness disk sets via a dial-up aol connection) was slackware
[10:02] <Neil3> hehe
[10:02] <Neil3> my first try was with red hat 5.2
[10:02] <Neil3> and fvwm!
[10:02] <Quinn_Storm> I remember fvwm
[10:02] <Quinn_Storm> not fondly
[10:02] <Neil3> yeah it was just an ugly blocky thing
[10:02] <Neil3> but so was windows 95 at the time
[10:02] <Quinn_Storm> I remember kde 2
[10:03] <Quinn_Storm> now that was a nice thing for the time
[10:03] <Neil3> i think i got kde1 on a magazine cover disk and somehow managed to install it
[10:03] <Quinn_Storm> right around the launch of win 95 if I remember...or maybe it was kde 1 though I think it was 2
[10:03] <Quinn_Storm> I can't remember clearly when what happened
[10:03] <Neil3> yeah
[10:03] <Neil3> good stuff though
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> yeah
[10:04] <Neil3> hm are there any kde based p2p apps?
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> I use apollon
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> but you need to do a little setup with it
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> its not all gui setup unfortunately
[10:04] <Quinn_Storm> I've heard about a kde ed2k client too
[10:04] <Neil3> dang
[10:05] <Neil3> yeah something for gnutella and maybe ed2k would be neat
[10:05] <Quinn_Storm> well apollon is gnutella, openft, and if you can find it, ft
[10:05] <Neil3> ok
[10:05] <Neil3> might give it a go
[10:05] <Neil3> how complex is the setup? just a case of editing a config file?
[10:06] <Quinn_Storm> Neil3: its a case of running gift-setup and answering its questions
[10:06] <Neil3> konversation is a nice irc client too although i cant find any way to get the tabs going vertical
[10:07] <Quinn_Storm> thats a great argument for something I was discussing with someone earlier...they were trying to say essentially "configurability is bad" especially when its a "well I don 't see why anyone would want that" case (like I never would have expected someone to want vertical irc tabs)
[10:08] <Neil3> really?
[10:08] <Neil3> i actually prefer it
[10:08] <Neil3> i can fit more channels in
[10:08] <Quinn_Storm> yeah it makes sense that way, I just wouldn't have thought of it
[10:08] <Neil3> works a lot better for me i'm used to it in xchat
[10:08] <Quinn_Storm> I tend to use alt+left&right to switch channels
[10:08] <Quinn_Storm> thats the default key combo for konvi
[10:08] <Neil3> sweet thats ok
[10:09] <Quinn_Storm> all those shortcuts are configurable in almost every kde app
[10:09] <Quinn_Storm> configurability is kde's biggest strength over gnome & other de's
[10:09] <Quinn_Storm> oh and if you use konqueror and want middle-click to close tabs, let me know and I'll dig up the hidden config setting for that
[10:10] <Neil3> cheers but thats not bothering me yet!
[10:10] <Neil3> only thing with konqueror is if i have it open on a web site and i then open my home folder from the panel, it opens in a new tab rather than its own window with the sidebar which i like for file management
[10:11] <Quinn_Storm> ah, if you want to toggle the sidebar, push F9
[10:11] <Quinn_Storm> that -should- be in the menus somewhere but doesn't seem to be, though as usual you can configure the key
[10:24] <Neil3> damn
[10:25] <Neil3> gift is giving me jip
[10:25] <Neil3> i went through the setup process and the daemon wont start
[10:25] <Quinn_Storm> when you ran the setup, at the very beginning it asked a question with a default value of 0, did you make sure to change that to something else?
[10:27] <Neil3> woohoo all good
[10:27] <Neil3> yeah i misread it thought it'd not work if it was non 0
[10:27] <Neil3> hah
[10:27] <Neil3> all is well
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> I figure you have gnutella & openft plugins for gift then?
[10:28] <Neil3> openft has a lot of users
[10:28] <Neil3> yep
[10:28] <Neil3> enabled both
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> yeah, openft only sometimes returns matches though
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> its like...really not great
[10:28] <Quinn_Storm> but the gnutella side works wonderfully
[10:28] <Neil3> cool
[10:28] <Neil3> will have to try it out after it shares my stuff
[10:29] <Quinn_Storm> I managed to find a debian package for and get the real fasttrack plugin installed but it was a mess to do so
[10:29] <Neil3> looks nice though
[10:29] <Neil3> yeah
[10:29] <Quinn_Storm> yeah apollon is pretty nice, its running on my right monitor right now
[10:29] <Neil3> :)
[10:29] <Neil3> i might get round to recompiling k3b for mp3 burning
[10:29] <Quinn_Storm> thats pretty easy since you can do it "the debian way" (there's a kubuntu wiki about it)
[10:30] <Neil3> yeah i read that
[10:30] <Quinn_Storm> oh and if you use amarok you'll want to recompile libtunepimp-bin for mp3 as well so you can do musicbrainz-tagging properly on mp3s
[10:30] <Neil3> just don't really like bodging stuff
[10:30] <Quinn_Storm> well at least that way there's a debian package connected to it
[10:30] <Neil3> but yeah
[10:31] <Quinn_Storm> and you just put a hold on it in your manager (I mostly use aptitude, synaptic kynaptic and kpackage just don't seem great to me)
[10:31] <Neil3> i'm trying to avoid gtk at all costs
[10:31] <Neil3> stuck with kynaptic at the moment
[10:31] <Quinn_Storm> well aptitude is a console app
[10:31] <Quinn_Storm> its not bad
[10:32] <Quinn_Storm> I personally can't quite shun gtk, gaim is just too good and kopete is just too bad
[10:32] <Neil3> just need to get samba sorted and i think that's it
[10:32] <Neil3> yeah gaim is nice
[10:32] <Neil3> kopete is ok
[10:33] <Quinn_Storm> I even did some patch work on kopete (they haven't comitted it yet b/c they have a lot of stuff they are doing) but for now gaim is just more functional
[10:33] <Neil3> cool
[10:33] <Neil3> i only use it on msn
[10:33] <Quinn_Storm> yeah thats the one protocol kopete is good at
[10:42] <Neil3> i'll brb thanks for your help
[11:26] <hunger> kubuntu is really nice... if only ubuntu as a base was better!
[11:26] <Kaiser_essen> ??
[11:27] <hunger> Kamping_Kaiser: Broken packages, broken bugtracker, no decent bug reporting tool, ...
[11:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> i dont have any broken packages
[11:28] <hunger> Kamping_Kaiser: I do... and I can not even report bugs since the bugtracker is so terribly slow/broken.
[11:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> the bug trackers not great, i agree there.
[11:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> try fix your install
[11:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes ^^
[11:29] <Neil3> yeah kubuntu is nice but a little rough around the edges
[11:29] <Neil3> konqueror crashes sometimes
[11:29] <hunger> Then I can head back to debian/unstable and wouldn't need to bother with ubuntu.
[11:30] <hunger> Neil3: I am more concerned about -dev packages without all the necessary files... I can not even build my own stuff on ubuntu anymore!
[12:13] <Neil3> does konqueror have a popup blocker?
[12:31] <Riddell> Neil3: yes
[12:31] <Riddell> hidden under javascript in Settings
[12:33] <Tm_T> hullo
[12:34] <Neil3> okie
[12:34] <Neil3> cheers
[12:34] <Neil3> now trying to get midi playback working
[12:34] <Neil3> argh
[12:38] <verden01> does anyone know the proper name of kdiskfree?
[12:38] <verden01> it shows you your partitions
[12:41] <`TUX``> riddel  are  you  the  kynaptic  devel?
[12:41] <`TUX``> is there a  wish  list?
[12:41] <`TUX``> :)
[12:42] <`TUX``> i think no :D
[01:27] <verden01> anyone installed vmware in kubuntu?
[01:29] <roel_s> verden01 - Installed it in Ubuntu (shouldn't make a difference though)
[01:30] <BlackLabel> hi verden01
[01:30] <roel_s> verden01, having clock problems?
[01:32] <verden01> robin__, no i'm not
[01:32] <verden01> hey BlackLabel
[01:32] <BlackLabel> verden01: whats up
[01:33] <verden01> nm just made kubuntu my primary distro
[01:33] <roel_s> good choice ;-)
[01:34] <Ins|de> hi there
[01:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[01:34] <verden01> i installed it on my 160 GB drive and let kubuntu do th epartitioning and i have a 3.1GB swap partition
[01:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> overkill ;)
[01:35] <verden01> yeah i don't know why it di dthat
[01:35] <roel_s> that's a bit swap - how much RAM did you conigure?
[01:35] <roel_s> big swap... i mean
[01:35] <verden01> in vmware?
[01:36] <roel_s> yep
[01:36] <verden01> 800mb
[01:37] <Ins|de> i have some ugly stuff when i open my kcontrol for example, i see something like <![CDATA["";/* kde_infopage.css*/ (...) on the top and the information (in html or something) all distorted, does anyone know where is file located ?
[01:37] <roel_s> hm - then i don't know why (k)ubuntu uses so much swap...
[01:37] <Ins|de> sorry, my english is not the better :\
[01:37] <verden01> i have 1GB ram on my computer
[01:37] <verden01> 2 x 512
[01:38] <verden01> and kubuntu gave me a 3.1 GB swap
[01:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> its a 160 gb hdd. couldnt think of anything else to put there i expect
[01:38] <roel_s> It ought to set it to 2 G max - but then again, 3 G is not a problem. Just a waste of space
[01:38] <verden01> i suppose
[01:39] <verden01> when i set partitions up myself i usually make the swap 1GB
[01:39] <Choubaka> I don't even have swap ;P
[01:39] <verden01> :)
[01:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> :O
[01:40] <roel_s> :-o
[01:40] <verden01> :--)
[01:40] <roel_s> 1GB should do fine
[01:40] <verden01> :--)0
[01:40] <verden01> i agree
[01:40] <Choubaka> Why have any swap at all with that amount of RAM?
[01:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> safety
[01:41] <Choubaka> I've never needed swap with 512MB
[01:41] <verden01> anyway i guess i'll never use hardly any space
[01:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> choubaka. i use my swap
[01:41] <Choubaka> of course, if you want suspend and stuff like that you need swap
[01:41] <ian|static> Riddell: thanks :)
[01:42] <roel_s> exactly
[01:42] <Choubaka> Kamping_Kaiser: what are the cases where you need it? :p
[01:43] <BlackLabel> what does swap do anyway
[01:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> i run apache, multiple users (ssh only)
[01:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> and half a dozen toher servers
[01:43] <BlackLabel> is it like virtual memory?
[01:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes
[01:43] <Choubaka> Kamping_Kaiser: ahaa
[01:44] <Choubaka> Well, servers need swap
[01:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes. :)
[01:44] <Choubaka> but not desktops :/
[01:44] <roel_s> e.g. if you run out RAM-space, swap takes over
[01:44] <Choubaka> not often at least.
[01:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> not a standard desktop anyway. unless you start doing things through wine/cedega
[01:44] <Choubaka> that is, unless you do video editing with less than 2GB ram or something.
[01:44] <Choubaka> Kamping_Kaiser: I can play games too fine without swap :)
[01:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) if you have no swap and runs out of room, the system uses /tmp space its cool
[01:46] <Choubaka> someday we won't need any swap!
[01:46] <Choubaka> We'll have a dozen GBs of persistent RAM
[01:46] <BlackLabel> does mac os x use swap?
[01:46] <roel_s> Let's swap it!
[01:47] <roel_s> One day we won't need harddisks...
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[01:47] <Choubaka> yeah. We mirror data on the internet :P
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> blacklabel. i think so
[01:47] <Choubaka> persistent RAM would be cool
[01:47] <roel_s> lol
[01:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> i expect so
[01:47] <Choubaka> power outage -> power up, continue exactly where you left off.
[01:47] <roel_s> And now for something completely different: Anyone having problems with Konqueror filemanager crashing all the time?
[01:48] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: yes, but quite a small amount of swap
[01:48] <thoreauputic> according to gkrellm in Mac-OS-X
[01:48] <BlackLabel> ok
[01:48] <thoreauputic> mind you  I have 768MB of ram....
[01:48] <thoreauputic> on my iBook
[01:49] <roel_s> Damn, I hate to be the only one...
[01:49] <BlackLabel> u got tiger?
[01:49] <thoreauputic> No, I have 10.3
[01:49] <BlackLabel> ok
[01:49] <thoreauputic> Panther or whatever it is
[01:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> tigers not out
[01:50] <thoreauputic> I don't run it much - I prefer Ubuntu
[01:50] <BlackLabel> to mac os, you must have it setup pretty good?
[01:50] <thoreauputic> I use Mac on Linux sometimes
[01:51] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: I don't like the way the file system hierarchy works in OS-X, and too much is hidden by default
[01:51] <BlackLabel> mac on linux? how do u do that
[01:51] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:51] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: like dot files
[01:52] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:52] <thoreauputic> Mac on Linux is a virtual machine that runs OS-X on the linux kernel at the same time as linux
[01:53] <thoreauputic> on separate virtual tty of course 7 and 8b usually
[01:53] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:53] <thoreauputic> not 8b - typo
[01:53] <BlackLabel> interesting
[01:53] <thoreauputic> I meant 8
[01:53] <BlackLabel> yea i guessed
[01:54] <thoreauputic> you can run it in a nested window if you prefer
[01:54] <BlackLabel> yea
[01:54] <thoreauputic> but it's slower
[01:54] <kamz> konqueror crashes when I try to play movie clips...i have installed the win32 codecs, etc...does anyone have any ideas to help?
[01:54] <thoreauputic> It runs at native speed as far as I can tell
[01:55] <BlackLabel> it has to be run using kubuntu-ppc eh?
[01:55] <BlackLabel> well not just kubuntu
[01:55] <BlackLabel> but the powerpc version?
[01:55] <thoreauputic> BlackLabel: I run standard ubuntu on my mac :)
[01:56] <thoreauputic> ppc version, yes
[01:56] <roel_s> use firefox ... :-)
[01:56] <roel_s> kamz, use firefox ... :-)
[01:57] <kamz> roel_s: firefox seems to have too many gnome/gtk dependencies, i was trying to avoid it
[01:57] <roel_s> kamz, I had a lot of problems with it too - until I started using firefox with kaffeine
[01:57] <BlackLabel> my hdd in my amd 2400 laptop died and i was thinking of only install kubuntu to it, but i dunno if my apps will work properly on it
[01:57] <BlackLabel> once i get a replacement hdd
[01:57] <roel_s> know what you mean... however, it's a damn fine browser
[01:58] <kamz> yeah
[01:58] <kamz> i actually prefer firefox, but i liked the idea of having a clean kde/qt system
[01:58] <roel_s> my web banking was not working properly in konqueror either - it works fine in firefox
[01:59] <roel_s> funny, me too - but I'm afraid that's not possible
[01:59] <kamz> yeah too bad eh? i'll give it a shot then, firefox is always good advice
[01:59] <kamz> thanks
[01:59] <kamz> gotta go, exam time
[01:59] <roel_s> you might wanna try to download firefox and install it instead of using apt-get
[02:00] <roel_s> too late...
[02:04] <ztonzy> hi
[02:04] <ztonzy>  what do I need under KDE to change fontsize and themes for GTK apps ??
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> good one mate ;)
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> bbs
[02:06] <bhna> ztonzy: gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[02:07] <ztonzy> bhna, trhanks
[02:13] <verden01> if i do the new upgrade for kdelibs etc does it stuff up my kubuntu deskltop?
[02:14] <Anlar> shouldn't do that.
[02:14] <verden01> k :)
[02:14] <Cowlike> verden01, it did mess mine up. I don't know the "right" way to fix that but I ended up removing ~/.kde to fix it
[02:15] <Cowlike> everything on the panel was gone, even the "K" button
[02:15] <Neil3> it messed up mine too
[02:15] <Cowlike> i removed ~/.kde and restarted X
[02:15] <verden01> i have done a ne winstall but it stuffed mine up as well
[02:16] <verden01> Cowlike, did your desktop return to normal after you deleted ~/ .kde?
[02:16] <Cowlike> yes, it did
[02:16] <Cowlike> after the X restart
[02:16] <verden01> cool
[02:17] <verden01> i might do the upgrade then
[02:17] <Cowlike> I was pissed that I might have to end up doing a reinstall so I just tried it, figuring that it might be a conflict between versions with the config data in .kde
[02:17] <Cowlike> seemed to work
[02:17] <verden01> :)
[02:17] <Cowlike> well... it DID work
[02:18] <Cowlike> actually, I renamed it, just in case :)
[02:18] <Cowlike> it just got recreated and everything was fine
[02:18] <verden01> have you done another update and upgrade since?
[02:18] <Cowlike> yes
[02:18] <Cowlike> see that script in the title of this channel?
[02:18] <Cowlike> kdelibs-debug.sh?
[02:19] <verden01> yeah
[02:19] <Cowlike> there was some bug where a particular file wasn't getting updated. don't know if that's fixed now but I was having that problem too and the script fixed that
[02:19] <Cowlike> forces an update
[02:19] <verden01> k
[02:20] <Cowlike> never had any problems since
[02:20] <verden01> Cowlike, what do you think of kubuntu?
[02:21] <james13> Is there a VNC viewer package for kubuntu?
[02:22] <Anlar> kde desktop has integrated cnv viewer.
[02:22] <Anlar> vnc.
[02:22] <Anlar> it's called krdc.
[02:22] <james13> Anlar, thank you
[02:23] <bhna> verden01: http://moba.linuxfaqs.de/kdelibs-debug.sh
[02:23] <verden01> k  thanx
[02:24] <james13> Anlar, I just brought it up.  Thank you very much
[02:30] <kkathman> Good morning all :) (at least here its morning) :)
[02:34] <bhna> kkathman: where is here?
[02:41] <kkathman> bhna: Texas
[02:42] <bhna> kkathman: here is germany ;-)
[02:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh
[02:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> bhana, so its luchtime there?
[02:43] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: 2:43 pm
[02:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. :) sounds right. here its 22:14
[02:44] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: where?
[02:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> central Australia
[02:45] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: ah nice! Kaiser sounds very german
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) it is.
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> so is the rest of my name
[02:47] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: are you a german or your parents?
[02:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> dad
[02:47] <BlackLabel> Kamping_Kaiser: r u on adsl2?
[02:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> im not.
[02:48] <BlackLabel> ok
[02:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> my exchange wont do it
[02:48] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: do you speak german?
[02:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> a little.
[02:49] <BlackLabel> sik heil
[02:49] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: dann wuensche ich dir ein schoenes wochenende ;-)
[02:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> where in germany are you from? bhna
[02:50] <bhna> BlackLabel: sieg heil :-(
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) danke,
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> but i dont remember much written german ;)
[02:50] <BlackLabel> whats it mean anyway bhna
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> sie heil? or sik heil?
[02:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> i salute you
[02:50] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: thuringia in the middle of germany, former east-germany, the town is jena
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> == sie heil
[02:51] <BlackLabel> its what hitler says
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> :|
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> bhna. cool
[02:51] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: why do you know the town?
[02:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> i know a *little* about germay.
[02:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> i may have been there, but that was 10 years ago
[02:52] <bhna> Kamping_Kaiser: this is my hometown http://www.jena.de/
[02:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> sweet. website :)
[03:01] <Tm_T> :)
[03:05] <Ins|de> hi there, i have a problem with my kde, every html presented in konkeror or another applicatio is messed up, realy strange problem, and some menus disapeared, can anybody help? i'm using kde3.4 with ubuntu hoary, i have this problem since i updated kubuntu
[03:05] <jmjones> has anyone had problems with sound in kubunutu?  I can play an audio cd, but can't play .ogg files and I tested kaffeine on a movie trailer and no audio.
[03:06] <UnreA|L> try type alsamixer
[03:07] <Tm_T> http://www.spreadfirefox.com/fifty.html
[03:08] <jmjones> UnreA|L - ok - what am i looking for
[03:08] <Tm_T> jmjones: heh, actually I listen ogg atm ;)
[03:10] <Neil3> hey folks can someone please paste the contents of '/etc/rcS.d/S07hdparm' into http://pastebin.com/ - i accidentally deleted mine!
[03:12] <Tm_T> oh!
[03:13] <uniq> neom: it's just a link.. ln-s /etc/init.d/rc.S.d/S07hdparm /etc/rcS.d/S07hdparm
[03:13] <uniq> err.. that was for neil3.
[03:13] <neom> :|
[03:13] <Neil3> thanks
[03:13] <Neil3> hehe
[03:13] <Neil3> oops
[03:13] <uniq> ehmd,,
[03:14] <uniq>  ln -s /etc/init.d/hdparm /etc/rcS.d/S07hdparm
[03:14] <uniq> of course.
[03:14] <uniq> neil3 ^^
[03:15] <Neil3> oh cool
[03:15] <uniq> my bad.
[03:15] <Neil3> its just a link
[03:15] <uniq> yes.
[03:15] <uniq>  /etc/init.d/hdparm is the real file.
[03:15] <Neil3> sweeeeeeeet
[03:15] <Neil3> hehe i thought i was screwed for a moment
[03:15] <Neil3> cool i can make a link for samba too since it isnt starting at boot
[03:16] <uniq> use update-rc.d
[03:16] <uniq> update-rc.d samba defaults
[03:16] <Neil3> ok
[03:16] <uniq> will make samba startat boot.
[03:16] <Neil3> nice one thanks
[03:16] <uniq> update-rc.d -f samba remove
[03:17] <uniq> will remove it from boot.
[03:17] <Tm_T> http://www.xitimonitor.com/images/etudes/equipement6.gif
[03:17] <Tm_T> =)
[03:17] <Tm_T> Finland o/
[03:18] <Tm_T> (percentage of FF users)
[03:18] <Neil3> great thanks a million uniq
[03:18] <Neil3> i'll brb gonna reboot to test
[03:19] <kkathman> hi there Tm_T :)
[03:20] <Tm_T> hullo :)
[03:22] <Neil3> thanks uniq, works like a charm!!
[03:22] <Tm_T> :)
[03:23] <kkathman> Feeling better today Tm_T ??
[03:26] <macbobby> hi, ich nochmal...wie kann ich mich im Ubuntu als root in der console anmelden?
[03:26] <macbobby> sry
[03:27] <kkathman> Tm_T: do you run the gkrellm monitor by any chance?
[03:29] <Tm_T> in my other computer yes
[03:30] <Tm_T> but I like to use TORSMO :)
[03:31] <kkathman> Tm_T:  Well, I use Thunderbird for my email, and got that configured in gkrellm. But obviously gkrellm still wants to use /var/mail/username.  I have about 6 msgs in my "mail" is there a command to get rid of that mail?
[03:31] <kkathman> or do you just rm that file?
[03:31] <Tm_T> kkathman: it's your local mail I think...
[03:31] <kkathman> right
[03:31] <Tm_T> just say "mail" in Konsole ;)
[03:32] <kkathman> ahh ok..kinda goofy  lol
[03:32] <Tm_T> not really
[03:36] <kkathman> howdy Diablo-D3  :)
[03:36] <Diablo-D3> hey
[03:44] <roel_s> Anyone having problems with Konqueror filemanager crashing all the time?
[03:46] <kkathman> roel_s: cant say that I have ever had a problem with it
[03:46] <kkathman> roel_s: but then I do about 90% of my file management through FileRunner or through the Konsole
[03:48] <roel_s> kkathman, me too - however, I have some lo-fi users that use konqueror...
[03:48] <kkathman> roel_s: I do use konq to transfer files around on my network (i.e. samba shares) tho, and havent had any probs there
[03:49] <kkathman> roel_s: but we get  a few questions on that every day, so it must be a real issue of some sort
[03:50] <roel_s> i've seen some messages on the kde bug-lists, however noone has come up with a solution yet
[03:52] <kkathman> roel_s: I suspect that most of those glitches are random, and thus very difficult to track down. If it isnt repeatable, its hard to fix.
[03:53] <roel_s> yep
[03:53] <Diablo-D3> one whacked remix: http://www.nathanchase.com/2005/04/ghost-that-feedsray-parker-jrs.html
[03:54] <sproingie> wow, safari passes acid2.  khtml is now more css compliant than mozilla
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> lol
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> I just wish they would backport that to kde's branch
[03:55] <sproingie> they will
[03:55] <kkathman> Amen
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> wait, sproingie, do you have that copy of sarfari handy?
[03:55] <sproingie> nope, don't have a mac
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> damn
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> http://shadowconflict.blogspot.com/
[03:55] <Diablo-D3> look at that in firefox and konq
[03:57] <Anlar> blank page. interesting.
[03:57] <sproingie> hm.  is the author using correct css, or compensating for mozilla?
[03:57] <Anlar> no, wait.. there it is.
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> I am the author
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> its correct css afaik
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> khtml used to puke even harder on that
[03:58] <Anlar> the whole xhtml is very broken
[03:58] <sproingie> i hesitate to speculate how it looks on IE
[03:58] <roel_s> Works fine for me in firefox
[03:58] <Anlar> so it even shouldn't look anything.
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> it bombs on IE
[03:58] <Diablo-D3> infact, it even displays a warning telling it to upgrade to firefox
[03:58] <Anlar> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fshadowconflict.blogspot.com%2F quite obviously the whole page is crap.
[03:58] <kkathman> looks better in firefox than Konq here..but that might just be a font issue
[03:58] <Neil3> looks good in konq
[03:59] <sproingie> konq renders it a whole lot purtier for me
[03:59] <sproingie> kde's font AA doesn't happen in ff
[03:59] <Diablo-D3> Anlar: last time I noticed w3's validator is triggering on stuff that doesnt affect layout
[04:00] <Anlar> of course.
[04:00] <sproingie> wonder how opera 8 does
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> opera 8 minorly chokes iirc
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> wtf is with my connection
[04:00] <kkathman> Opera does fine here...looks very nice
[04:00] <sproingie> tho only my work machine could really use opera ... ff goes berzerk regularly, eats >100 megs ram
[04:01] <sproingie> at home it seems to behave
[04:01] <sproingie> or it could be that my home machine is just so much faster
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> AHAHAHAH
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> oh boy
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> w3 is triggering on a url
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> 56 errors for a single url
[04:01] <sproingie> wow.  thats one evil url
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> but for the record, those dont effect the layout
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> hrm, actually, its just one blog entry
[04:02] <kkathman> I seem to experience poor font resolution  when I have a light, thin font on a dark background...kinda irritating
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> I'll go fix those later
[04:02] <sproingie> firefox's nasty selection behavior is really evident in your blog
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> blogger should automatically fix those anyhow
[04:03] <sproingie> i can't reliably select anything, it freaks out and starts extending it up or down the page
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: hah?
[04:03] <sproingie> konq behaves itself
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> that doesnt do it for me
[04:03] <sproingie> it's been a long gripe of mine with ff, that its way too zealous about extending the selection
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> infact it wont let me extend the selection at all
[04:03] <sproingie> IE is braindamaged in the other direction
[04:04] <kkathman> IE still hasnt embraced CSS2 completely...again, very irritating
[04:04] <sproingie> in fact there's a number of bugs associated with the extension
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> go look at the blog in IE on windows
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> look at the warning on the top ;)
[04:04] <sproingie> like when the extension is somehow green instead of normal, and it behaves different
[04:05] <sproingie> or when selecting locks up the browser for several seconds, and when you get control back, it's basically disabled for that page
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> hah
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> well, look at the html thats commnented out at the top
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> you'll know it when you see it
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> it uses a completely safe msie hack
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> I probably should extend that to remove all css, though
[04:07] <sproingie> Diablo-D3: favorite mecha: does the glitterboy count as a mecha?
[04:07] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: are u here ?
[04:08] <sproingie> is more of an "armored suit" than "pilotable robot".  does have a Big Freaking Gun though
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> sproingie: hrm, bet it could
[04:09] <Riddell> da_bon_bon: for now
[04:10] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: saw the screen shot ?
[04:10] <sproingie> i think battletech sort of lost its way with the clan invasion
[04:10] <Riddell> da_bon_bon: of the website?
[04:10] <sproingie> mechs were supposed to be cargo cult technology, no one could build them, just salvage them
[04:10] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: of the os selection menu in reboot
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> no, it lost its way when they got sued, sued, sued and then bought out
[04:10] <Riddell> da_bon_bon: oh yes, don't know what turns that on
[04:10] <sproingie> well thats when it died, yes
[04:11] <amichai> i just installed the kernel 2.6.10-5-k7 yet when i do uname -r i get 2.6.10-5-386
[04:11] <da_bon_bon> Riddell: oh ok.. someone told me its a new feature of kdm or something
[04:11] <amichai> which was my previous one, any ideas?
[04:11] <sproingie> i used to play a cross between battletech and ogre.  mecha make sense when you think of 'em as having to withstand nuclear blasts every few minutes
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> hehe
[04:12] <sproingie> basically walking GEV's
[04:12] <amichai> how i choose which kernel to use? i have two
[04:13] <sproingie> amichai: does it show up in grub?
[04:13] <chavo> amichai, the newest one you installed will become the default, the next time you reboot.
[04:14] <amichai> chavo, it didnt though.
[04:14] <amichai> chavo, woah wait a minute
[04:14] <amichai> chavo, damn i still havent rebooted....machine was on all night....lol
[04:14] <sproingie> doh
[04:14] <chavo> aha
[04:15] <amichai> what do i type to find out how long i've been logged on?
[04:15] <amichai> the machine i mean, not my user
[04:15] <sproingie> uptime
[04:15] <chavo> uptime
[04:15] <amichai> 17:16:03 up 1 day,
[04:16] <amichai> go figure
[04:16] <amichai> thanx guys :)
[05:43] <BleSS> hi!
[05:43] <BleSS> I need info about input devices to build x configuration: http://rafb.net/paste/results/4LU1p385.nln.html
[05:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi bless. build x config?
[05:45] <BleSS> Kamping_Kaiser, X configuration file
[05:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[06:06] <kkathman> is there a reason why artsd conitnues to respawn, even though I dont use or have any sound device running on my system?
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> because it hates you
[06:06] <kkathman> lol :)
[06:07] <kkathman> and I feed it, and care for and give it lots of love and attention too...sigh
[06:11] <kkathman> artsd reminds me alot of that dang davcdata in windoz  always restarts whether you need it or not :)
[06:35] <theD3viL> any1 have problems with apollon?
[06:37] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[06:37] <Diablo-D3> whats the official kde media player in kubuntu?
[06:37] <theD3viL> hm
[06:37] <kkathman> hmmm Kaffeine?
[06:37] <theD3viL> yes.
[06:37] <Diablo-D3> I mean like xmms type media players
[06:38] <kkathman> KScd?
[06:38] <Chin2> I use xmms or amaroK
[06:38] <Diablo-D3> I'm trying to ditch xmms
[06:38] <kkathman> there are several distributed standardly
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> thats retarded
[06:39] <theD3viL> Diablo-D3: can i use ALSA in amaroK ?
[06:39] <kkathman> gotta watch kaffeine tho, it stays around even after you close it..you have to pkill it
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> probably
[06:39] <Chin2> I'm using ALSA in amaroK
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> it supports gstreamer
[06:39] <kkathman> amarok is good for mp3s etc
[06:39] <theD3viL> Chin2: how you install it?
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> anything that uses gstreamer supports everything
[06:40] <Chin2> synaptic?
[06:40] <theD3viL> k
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> yeah, theD3viL needs to change his nick
[06:41] <kkathman> you can do an apt-get on alsaplayer too if you want
[06:41] <theD3viL> :>
[06:41] <kkathman> if you want the base config files...the package is alsa-base
[06:42] <kkathman> or gstreamer0.8-alsa isn the plugin
[06:42] <theD3viL> alsaplayer-alsa ?
[06:42] <Chin2> I was just listening to a netlabel release in amaroK...it somehow managed to download the cover artwork!
[06:42] <Chin2> amazing...
[06:42] <kkathman> Chin2: yeh...seen that..that IS nice
[06:43] <Chin2> it's such an obscure tune, too
[06:44] <Chin2> and *how* it manages to recommend tunes that are just right is beyond me
[06:44] <kkathman> the new libclairvoyant module
[06:44] <Diablo-D3> oh thats just easy
[06:44] <Chin2> he he
[06:44] <Diablo-D3> it uses music brainz
[06:45] <Chin2> oh, that's what that brain thing is
[06:45] <theD3viL> can anybody play 2 sounds at same time? i cant :(
[06:45] <Diablo-D3> I can
[06:45] <theD3viL> how is that impossible ?
[06:45] <Diablo-D3> but then again, I have stuff setup properly to do so
[06:45] <Chin2> yeah, I can too
[06:45] <theD3viL> how??
[06:46] <Chin2> I don't know, alright? I just press stuff :)
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> well, you have three choices
[06:46] <Chin2> he he
[06:46] <Chin2> check your control center settings
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> one is use arts for everything
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> two is use dmix
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> three is get a soundcard that natively multiplexes
[06:47] <theD3viL> hm... i havent got arts in my control centre.. i have only ALSA, OSS etc.
[06:47] <Diablo-D3> in what control center?
[06:47] <Diablo-D3> arts is the kde sound daemon
[06:48] <theD3viL> i know but i must select it in control centre / sound
[06:48] <theD3viL> or what ?
[06:49] <Chin2> theD3viL, what audio device are you using (control center)?
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> _what_ control center?
[06:49] <theD3viL> ALSA
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> you mean kcontrol?
[06:49] <theD3viL> chin2: ALSA
[06:49] <Chin2> ok
[06:49] <theD3viL> Diablo-D3: yes,
[06:49] <Chin2> Diablo, it's called control center here, are you using KDE 3.3 or something?
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> theD3viL: the sound control panel tells arts what to use
[06:50] <Diablo-D3> theD3viL: then you tell all other apps to use arts for output
[06:50] <theD3viL> aha...
[06:50] <Chin2> shouldn't that be autoconfigured in most cases anyway?
[06:50] <Diablo-D3> Chin2: yes, it should
[06:52] <Chin2> hey, is there an easy way to figure out what app is hogging my CPU?
[06:53] <Diablo-D3> top
[06:53] <theD3viL> ALSA device "default" is used by another app.... wtf ?
[06:54] <Chin2> whoa...Diablo-D3, that is cool
[06:54] <Diablo-D3> you can use > and < to change what column its sorted by
[06:54] <Chin2> darn artsd!
[06:55] <Chin2> Diablo-D3, how do you know which column it's sorting by?
[06:56] <Diablo-D3> I have mine autobold
[06:56] <Chin2> how do you do that?
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> um
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> I forget actually
[06:57] <Chin2> that's okay
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> ahh press B
[06:58] <Chin2> cool, thanks
[07:00] <Chin2> dang, I'll bet there are a ton of cool commands like 'top' that I don't even know about :)
[07:01] <Diablo-D3> yeah probably
[07:34] <da_didi> hey all
[07:35] <da_didi> day two with kubuntu and it is still installed :)
[07:35] <da_didi> i just miss sshd
[07:35] <da_didi> is there a sshd?
[07:37] <Choubaka> of course.
[07:37] <Choubaka> sudo apt-get install ssh
[07:37] <Choubaka> you may have it installed already :p
[07:38] <da_didi> hmm, openssh-server was missing
[07:38] <da_didi> thx
[07:40] <Choubaka> :)
[07:40] <Choubaka> I have been a Debianist throughout my Linux career.
[07:42] <kubluntnex> are there a list of ubuntu repository i can use?
[07:42] <Choubaka> kubluntnex: archive.ubuntu.com?
[07:43] <da_didi> Choubaka: after suse and mandrake, i was a gentoo-user for long time and since one year now debian. But it looks like, the debian times ends now :)
[07:43] <Chin2> kubluntnex: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AptGetOrg
[07:43] <kubluntnex> thx al
[07:44] <Choubaka> da_didi: I see Ubuntu as Debian Desktop version. :D
[07:44] <kubluntnex> make that debian desktop for LAZY people :P
[07:44] <Choubaka> Why lazy? :p
[07:45] <kubluntnex> you know why... :P
[07:45] <Choubaka> I like not having to tweak stuff unnecessarily.
[07:45] <kubluntnex> thats lazy by choice :)
[07:45] <Choubaka> and not having to download heaps of stuff every week to keep up to date is cool.
[07:45] <Choubaka> Damn, my English is degrading.
[07:45] <da_didi> Choubaka: sure, but some diffrents are there
[07:46] <Choubaka> I ought to read some literature to brush it up a bit.
[07:46] <Chin2> one important difference is that I talk in a South African accent when I use Ubuntu.
[07:46] <da_didi> lol
[07:46] <Choubaka> :D
[07:46] <kubluntnex> lol chin2
[07:47] <Choubaka> How is Ubuntu pronounced anyway?
[07:47] <Chin2> oooo boooon toooo
[07:47] <kubluntnex> chin2: you mean Afrikaans
[07:47] <Choubaka> Chin2: blah.
[07:47] <Chin2> no, I mean like bent Australian
[07:47] <Choubaka> that's the American pronunciation.
[07:47] <kubluntnex> oeh boen toe
[07:48] <Chin2> you BUNT you
[07:48] <kubluntnex> blunt pls
[07:48] <Choubaka> Like all the people who pronounce Linux as "Lee-nux"
[07:48] <kubluntnex> lei nuks
[07:48] <Chin2> or Gentoo as zhentou
[07:49] <Chin2> I hate explaining knoppix to people, they think you have a disability when you pronounce that
[07:49] <Chin2> ubuntu = africa = toto = good group
[07:51] <Chin2> how do you pronounce "gkrellm"?
[07:51] <Diablo-D3> gee krellim
[07:51] <kubluntnex> heh
[07:51] <kubluntnex> pronounciation lessons on irc
[07:51] <kubluntnex> -_-
[07:52] <Chin2> dang, this whole time I was like, "G.K.R ellim"
[07:52] <Chin2> what a dork
[07:52] <Choubaka> I pronounce it "gekrelm"
[07:52] <kubluntnex> gkrlm
[07:52] <Choubaka> though that doesnt help you since it's supposed to be read the Finnish way
[07:52] <Choubaka> hmm
[07:52] <Choubaka> geek-realm
[07:52] <Chin2> right now my gkrellm duck is floating upside down
[07:52] <Choubaka> that's good.
[07:53] <Choubaka> anyone know if there will be a xubuntu btw?   The formats supported include RPM, Debian, Slackware and BSD package manager.
[12:32] <bubi> can i get it thruu apt-get ??
[12:32] <bubi> or i have to copile it self
[12:32] <membreya> sudo apt-get install kpackage bubi
[12:32] <bubi> tnx
[12:33] <bubi> a lot
[12:34] <_carsten> does anybody know an app for tracking my sports (running) results? There is SportsTracker, but that needs a up2date Mono which kubuntu doesn't provide
[12:34] <membreya> _carsten: the internet? ..tv?
[12:35] <_carsten> membreya: no, *my* results. CNN doesn't report how fast I was last week ;)
[12:36] <membreya> need to improve yourself then _carsten :P
[12:36] <membreya> get yourself to international level :P
[12:36] <_carsten> that is the grand master plan (tm)
[12:36] <membreya> is couch potato a sport though? :|
[12:37] <Tm_T> hmmmh
[12:37] <Tm_T> let's see what new exciting features cvs amarok have :p
[12:38] <membreya> "non-crashing?" *hopes*