[07:08] <dholbach> good morning
[09:02] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Particularly Preposterous Packaging Day! 😃
[11:19] <ogra_> kyrofa, did you see my ping yesterday ? there is an rpi image for testing with i2c enabled
[11:32] <kyrofa> ogra_, wonderful! No, I must have missed it, I'm sorry :(
[11:32] <ogra_> kyrofa, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/test/ubuntu-15.04-snappy-armhf-rpi2.img.xz
[11:32] <kyrofa> ogra_, I'll do that today :)
[11:33] <ogra_> cool, thanks ... let me know if anyhting is missing
[13:23] <cwayne> ogra_: is the rpi2 still 'unsupported'?
[13:23] <ogra_> cwayne, until it can be built completely from upstream...
[13:23] <ogra_> (which doesnt work even with the first pi yet i think)
[13:24] <ogra_> cwayne, but the next image (above) will allow you update the rootfs now ... (not the kernel or bootloader though, so as soon as incompatible changes in the initrd happen you have to reinstall)
[13:52] <elopio> good morning.
[13:52] <elopio> hey ogra_, I ran the automated suite on the raspi image and it gets stuck in one of the failover tests. Should it support automatic rollbacks in case of failure?
[13:53] <ogra_> elopio, hmm, i didnt test automated rollback, snappy rollback definitely works (as does snappy update) ... since updates did never work at all before it is at least not a regression ;)
[13:54] <elopio> ogra_: yes, the tests that fake an update and rollback worked.
[13:54] <ogra_> does the automated rollback work with the BBB ? perhaps it is a general thing with the new uboot setup we use ?
[13:54] <elopio> I'm going to trigger the suite on the -1 image now.
[13:54] <ogra_> cool
[13:54] <elopio> ogra_: yes, bbb passed all the automated test on the latest 15.04 stable
[13:55] <ogra_> well, i dont see it as a blocker if automated rollback doesnt work yet ... (since it never worked)
[13:55] <ogra_> though we need to have a place for filing Pi specific bugs like that i suppose :)
[13:59] <elopio> ogra_: agree to that. This release is clearly a huge improvement.
[13:59] <ogra_> yep
[14:00] <ogra_> the uboot re-org helped a lot in getting this to work :)
[14:01] <elopio> ogra_: if you want to run the suite: branch snappy/15.04 in your GOPATH and go run _integration-tests/main.go --ip ... --arch arm
[14:01] <elopio> more info in the _integration-tests/README.md file.
[14:02] <ogra_> for next time :)
[14:06] <ogra_> elopio, what did you have to do to get the piglow to work btw ? any extra config ?
[14:12] <elopio> ogra_: no. I compiled https://github.com/schoentoon/piglow tests, scp to the board and ran with sudo.
[14:13] <ogra_> but you didnt have to do anything on the board/image ?
[14:13] <ogra_> (any extra config)
[14:21] <elopio> ogra_: not that I remember. I did this half asleep, so I will try again. Maybe package a demo snap for the store.
[14:22] <ogra_> cool
[14:22] <ogra_> well, as long as it works i'm happy
[14:29] <mhall119> does snappy use versioned frameworks like click does?
[14:30] <ogra_> i dont think i have seen version strings in package.yaml files for frameworks (but that could mean nothing)
[14:30] <ogra_> s/for frameworks/for packages using frameworks/
[14:49] <mhall119> so, that's not good, having versioned frameworks for Click was intentional, it let's us guarantee backwards compatibility
[14:50] <ogra_> swell, i dont really know .... frameworks are still a bit fuzzy wrt definition
[15:05] <dpm> rsalveti, ogra_, I was thinking of a weekend project to snappify bonescript (http://beagleboard.org/support/bonescript) with the intention of also snappifying cloud9 IDE.  Do we have a nodejs plugin?
[15:06] <ogra_> dpm, i tried packaging cloud9 in the past, it requires a certain(very old) version of nodejs, so you need to build that first
[15:07] <ogra_> and i'm not sure there is a nodejs plugin yet ...
[15:07] <ogra_> definitely worth a look :)
[15:09] <dpm> ah, bummer. I had had a look at it already a while ago with node-snapper (I started with bonescript first, I didn't get to cloud9 yet), I thought it might be the time to try with snapcraft.
[15:09] <ogra_> well, once you have a working binary packaging it is trivial
[15:09] <dpm> Also it seems cloud9 have a new repo, perhaps they've also updated their old nodejs dependency? https://github.com/ajaxorg/cloud9
[15:10] <ogra_> i know they were working on that ... but there was no ETA back then
[15:10] <ogra_> so yeah, that would indeed be cool
[15:22] <elopio> dpm: if you start write a nodejs plugin for snapcraft, that would be really nice.
[15:22] <dpm> elopio, well, my intention wasn't to hack on snapcraft, but rather to use it :)
[15:31] <longsleep> elopio: Do you have any plans for supporting multi arch snaps with snapcraft? I am wondering if i should add that to my debs plugin to have something similar to the webdm snap.
[15:32] <elopio> longsleep: I'm not quite sure about the plan, but I think the original idea is to make containers with snapcraft and other development tools that can be easily deployed.
[15:32] <elopio> so instead of handling all possible archs, you deploy the container on your target and build there.
[15:33] <longsleep> elopio: ok - but how do the multiple archs end up in a single snap?
[15:33] <elopio> longsleep: but you better ask rsalveti next week for a more accurate plan.
[15:34] <longsleep> elopio: ok - sure. Is he also the one to ask about how the webdm snap is currently built?
[15:34] <elopio> longsleep: I do not know. I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the future yet, looking more at the current code base. :)
[15:34] <elopio> longsleep: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/webdm/trunk/view/head:/README.md have you seen this?
[15:35]  * longsleep takes a look
[15:35] <longsleep> yes i have seen that - i guess should look at the build.sh script
[15:36] <longsleep> elopio: ah yes that was helpful - thanks!
[15:37] <elopio> longsleep: for webdm sergiusens is probably the best to answer your questions. He'll also be back next week.
[15:37] <longsleep> sure, i think the target should be to build webdm with snapcraft :)
[15:41] <elopio> longsleep: we are just waiting for dpm's npm plugin ;)
[15:41]  * dpm hugs elopio :)
[15:44] <ogra_> dpm, are we there yet ?
[15:45] <ogra_> longsleep, sergiuens usually builds the webdm package
[15:45] <dpm> ogra_, not weekend yet, so I haven't started ;)
[15:45] <ogra_> lol
[16:04] <longsleep> Are there any snaps which expose some configuration through Webdm or any other means?
[16:05] <fgimenez> nice weekend everyone o/
[16:27] <elopio> longsleep: like this? https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/config-command/
[16:31] <sergiusens> elopio ted: ogra_ I was trying the snapcraft qml plugin and noticed that the ubuntu plugin does not target a release, I think it should, right now I don't get the benefits of the qml plugin as I'm on trusty ;-)
[16:32] <ted> sergiusens, Heh, yeah. I think it should grow to add PPAs as well.
[16:32] <ted> sergiusens, Though, upgrade from Trusty man. Those are like old bits!
[16:32] <sergiusens> ted: well, I was told that we need to use this as a validation for our tools
[16:33] <sergiusens> ted: ;-)
[16:33] <longsleep> elopio: yes thats what i have been searching for - all the stuff there should work?
[16:33] <ted> We're probably going to have to wait for mvo to get back to seriously upgrade the Ubuntu plugin. He knows a bit about the apt python library. :-)
[16:34] <elopio> longsleep: yes. If it doesn't, please report a bug and link it here to make it critical.
[16:34] <sergiusens> ted: right, the problem is we probably need to extend apt to read from an 'alternate' sources.list for these things to work
[16:35] <elopio> we don't have automated user acceptance tests for that, yet.
[16:35] <ted> sergiusens, I think the lib can do that, you can configure the repos that it uses. That's just "advanced usage."
[16:35] <elopio> sergiusens: isn't that the same case as cross arch compilation?
[16:36] <sergiusens> elopio: sort of, except the runtime issues aren't there
[16:36] <elopio> instead of doing cross distro, you should get a wily container and build things there, I guess.
[16:36] <ted> sergiusens, If you want you can use the snapcraft-daily docker image and build in there. That's a more modern Ubuntu.
[16:36] <sergiusens> ted: right, I'm not sure the plugin should behave differently depending on the release we want to target 15.04, 16.04, rolling
[16:36] <sergiusens> today we don't have to make that distinction, not sure if it would be required in the future though
[16:37] <ted> I think we'll always need to set it. Some people will want LTS versions of libs, others will want bleeding edge.
[16:37] <longsleep> elopio: The config which gets passed to the hook is the complete config for all packages or is it somehow filtered?
[16:38] <longsleep> elopio: btw - config for webdm seems to be broken - http://paste.ubuntu.com/12022165/
[16:39] <sergiusens> ted: oh, I was creating an lxc install for wily ;-)
[16:39] <elopio> longsleep: I'll let sergiusens answer your question, 'cause I don't know.
[16:39] <sergiusens> ted: we should create an ubuntu-snapcraft template for lxc/d
[16:39] <ogra_> +1
[16:39] <elopio> longsleep: please report a bug in webdm.
[16:40] <longsleep> elopio: ok
[16:40] <ogra_> i really dont want to taint my host by installing dev packages for creating a snap
[16:40] <sergiusens> longsleep: can you log a bug for that?
[16:40] <ted> sergiusens, Eh, we're kinda taking it the other direction. Assuming a Ubuntu system and letting people build one up around there.
[16:40] <longsleep> sergiusens: sure
[16:40] <ted> sergiusens, So if you want, you can do it in Virtual Box or whatever the kids use on OSX today.
[16:41] <longsleep> ted, sergiusens you should look at the debs plugin i made: Helps a lot to build snaps when you have deb files already (which you can build in pbuilder) - https://code.launchpad.net/~longsleep/snapcraft/snapcraft-debs-plugin/+merge/266650
[16:42] <longsleep> elopio: btw - who is reviewing/merging snapcraft stuff now - mterry said something about he switches team?
[16:42] <ogra_> longsleep, i guess ted
[16:43] <ogra_> (who deliberately stayed silent i guess :D )
[16:43] <ted> Hehe
[16:43] <longsleep> :D
[16:43] <ted> Uhm, yeah, we honestly hadn't discussed that yet. But I'm guessing it'll fall on me as well.
[16:43] <ted> Honestly though, we should get someone with more Python experience to review as well.
[16:44] <ogra_> just rewrite it in shell
[16:44] <ted> I'll go put tabs in everywhere and piss off all the Python people ;-)
[16:44] <ogra_> its sanr anyway :P
[16:44] <ogra_> *saner
[16:44] <longsleep> sergiusens: bug #1482720
[16:44] <nothal> Bug #1482720: Webdm config seems to be broken / KeyError on snappy config webdm <webdm:New> <http://launchpad.net/bugs/1482720>
[16:44] <elopio> longsleep: yes, we'll have to share the load. With when mvo and chipaca are back it should be easier.
[16:45] <longsleep> ted: haha i had to change my python code to use spaces to be in line with snapcraft code ..
[16:45] <ted> :-)
[16:46] <ted> Okay, lunch bbiab.
[16:48] <sergiusens> ted: I don't follow the direction comment, but we can discuss it next week
[16:51] <ogra_> sergiusens, does udf check the content of id_rsa.pub when enabling developer mode ?
[16:51] <sergiusens> ogra_: no
[16:51] <ogra_> ah, cool ...
[16:51] <sergiusens> ogra_: are you thinking of a hack? ;-)
[16:52]  * sergiusens will make ogra_ life more complicaed
[16:52] <sergiusens> :-P
[16:52] <ogra_> sergiusens, no, i just re-built the rpi image
[16:52]  * sergiusens jokes
[16:52] <ogra_> and that has --developer-mode by default ... to be on the safe side i created an enty with only zeros ... but that might not be so clever :)
[17:14] <ogra_> sergiusens, hmm, but udf definitely mangles it
[17:14] <ogra_> (RaspberryPi2)ubuntu@localhost:~$ cat .ssh/authorized_keys
[17:14] <ogra_> None
[17:14] <ogra_> i had added a nice descriptive comment there originally :)
[17:14] <ogra_> (not that it matters much(
[17:16] <longsleep> elopio: Is it possible to provide a default config with a snap, or does it run the hook after installation?
[17:29] <ogra_> longsleep, hmm, should your spreed app actually switch on the camera on my laptop ?
[17:29] <ogra_> (installs fine on rpi btw)
[17:31] <ogra_> taking a picture woorks fine though
[17:33] <longsleep> ogra_: if you make a call yes
[17:34] <longsleep> if you do not make a call then no
[17:34] <ogra_> ah
[17:34] <longsleep> so for testing open up another tab an call yourself
[17:34] <ogra_> i thought it was just a chatroom
[17:35] <longsleep> its more like a phone system
[17:35] <ogra_> k
[17:35] <ogra_> looks really nice
[17:35] <longsleep> thanks for testing!
[17:36] <longsleep> i will add some configuration for the ports and certificate - then i am pretty much done
[17:37] <ogra_> hah !
[17:37] <ogra_> funny sounds
[17:37] <longsleep> :D
[18:33] <kyrofa> ogra_, I'm downloading the image now (was at the mechanic's this morning)
[18:39] <kyrofa> ogra_, I'm not super clear from your email what needs to happen to get the overlay dtb working. Extract /boot/uboot/overlays.tgz into /boot/uboot, and then put what in the config.txt?
[18:40] <kyrofa> I've not messed with that file before
[18:59] <kyrofa> ted, are you a snapcraft maintainer?
[19:00] <ted> kyrofa, Sure, what's up?
[19:00] <kyrofa> ted, a simple snapcraft recipe using only the ubuntu plugin uses dget, which is in devscripts, which isn't pulled in as a dep when installing snapcraft. Is that something that should be fixed?
[19:02] <ted> kyrofa, Uhm, yea.
[19:02] <ted> It should work out of the box :-)
[19:02] <kyrofa> ted, want me to make an MP?
[19:03] <ted> kyrofa, Sure, or a bug.
[19:03] <kyrofa> ted, both it is
[19:29] <asac> kyrofa: ted: not sure if its a bug or the spirit ... but when i used snapcraft it lazily/ondemand asked for installing the dependencies of the used plugin (e.g. it asked me for sudo pass when snapping something with ubuntu plugin)
[19:29] <asac> did it ask you for a password to install it lazily? or just error?
[19:29] <kyrofa> asac, no, just error: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/1482747
[19:30] <asac> kk
[19:30] <kyrofa> asac, but perhaps that means the fix is different than what I proposed
[19:30] <asac> maybe its fixed in trunk then... as it did this for for the wget example
[19:30] <asac> right
[19:32] <kyrofa> asac, trunk is ahead of the latest in the PPA?
[19:33] <asac> not sure .)
[19:33] <asac> i am always using trunk directly. updated bug with what i remembered
[19:33] <asac> lets see what folks say
[19:34] <asac> kyrofa: are u using daily build ppa?
[19:34] <asac> e.g https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/snapcraft-daily ?
[19:34] <kyrofa> asac, yes
[19:34] <asac> i am on 130
[19:34] <asac> ppa seems to be on 129, but i had this experience yesterday so i assume used 129
[19:34] <asac> *shrug*
[19:35] <asac> thanks!
[19:36] <kyrofa> asac, hmm, alright. No problem!
[19:37] <asac> kyrofa: https://pastebin.canonical.com/137108/
[19:37] <asac> and yes i am on 129 :) ... found out that 130 is my own local commit
[19:40] <kyrofa> asac, huh....
[19:42] <kyrofa> asac, I just purged devscripts as well, and now exactly what happened to you happened to me
[19:43] <kyrofa> asac, does apt leave something behind that helps snapcraft here?
[19:48] <lool> rajen: hey there
[19:48] <rajen> Hi there
[19:51] <rajen> Hi Loic
[19:52] <sergiusens> ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/snapcraft/dget/+merge/267411
[19:52] <kyrofa> sergiusens, hey daddy. Congratulations :)
[19:52] <sergiusens> kyrofa: lol, thanks
[19:53] <kyrofa> sergiusens, hey dude, get in line! https://code.launchpad.net/~kyrofa/snapcraft/add_devscripts_to_depends/+merge/267402
[19:53] <kyrofa> :P
[19:54] <kyrofa> sergiusens, although asac had some interesting things to say about that ^^
[19:56] <sergiusens> kyrofa: oh look at that, it is as if you found this minutes ago :-P
[19:57] <kyrofa> sergiusens, hahaha
[19:57] <kyrofa> sergiusens, although notice if you now purge devscripts, snapcraft will prompt you to install it
[19:57] <kyrofa> sergiusens, so something weird is happening. I'm setting up an lxc real quick to test on a clean system again
[19:58] <kyrofa> sergiusens, asac huh... worked fine in lxc. I have no idea why it sometimes doesn't work
[19:59] <sergiusens> kyrofa: about requiring devscripts?
[19:59] <kyrofa> sergiusens, yeah
[19:59] <sergiusens> kyrofa: I guess the use of dget is not the right thing here
[19:59] <kyrofa> sergiusens, sometimes it just offers to pull it in for you, but sometimes it breaks trying to just exec dget
[19:59] <sergiusens> kyrofa: it should use the python api for apt more and get links to the actual deb
[19:59] <kyrofa> sergiusens, ah, yeah that would be better
[20:00] <sergiusens> kyrofa: in the end, dget is just a perl script
[20:14] <sergiusens> ted: how are you running the vm to test your photoviewer app?
[20:24] <ted> sergiusens, With libvirt in vm-manager
[20:25] <sergiusens> ted: and mir just works? I'm getting connection issues
[20:26] <ted> sergiusens, Are you using QXL and Spice?
[20:26] <sergiusens> ted: qxl, what is spice?
[20:26] <ted> sergiusens, Like VNC
[20:26] <ted> It shouldn't matter, as long as QXL.
[20:27] <sergiusens> ted: let me see if using virt-manager toggles some extra options I'm missing
[20:27] <sergiusens> need to logout for a bit
[20:33] <sergiusens> ted: are you running on rolling or 15.04?
[20:34] <ted> sergiusens, I believe 15.04, let me check.
[20:34] <sergiusens> ted: and where did you get mir from? Manual download from the store?
[20:35] <ted> sergiusens, Yes, just snappy install mir
[20:35] <sergiusens> ted: 'snappy install mir' does not work :-P it doesn't have an alias
[20:36] <sergiusens> ted: works in virt manager btw, not sure why it doesn't with my magic kvm cli
[20:36] <sergiusens> ted: thanks for the fish ;-)
[20:37] <ted> How do I find what channel I'm on?
[20:37] <sergiusens> ted: snappy info
[20:37] <ted> Ah, yeah. 15.04


[00:02] <darkxst> x-Na sorry, still on 3.12, but think I can reproduce your black screen bug
[00:04] <darkxst> and that doesnt seem like something that would be NVIDIA specific
[01:27] <tnyfgr3> does any1 know what version of gnome will ship w/ 14.04?
[15:18] <donmarquis> Hi  I am trying to upgrade from saucy to trusty can someone help me
[18:11] <majod> can i somehow remove "ubuntu gnome" text from login screen?
[18:11] <majod> in 14.04
[18:19] <vineetk> I have a question related to glib .. I have posted it on SO ..someone please help ... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22881567/glib-cancel-timeout
[20:21] <ahoneybun> hey darkxst


[19:58] <hatch> jujugui hello all
[21:41] <Makyo> bcsaller_, if it's any help, the subordinate indicator won't ever really be a problem because, outside of the simulator, subordinates are always reported with 0 units :P
[23:53] <Makyo> bcsaller_, http://craftyjs.com/


[14:51] <habeangur> !ping
[14:51] <habeangur> !i3
[14:52] <habeangur> !kde
[14:52] <habeangur> !openbox
[14:52] <habeangur> !tor
[14:53] <habeangur> hey, tor is so dangrous, never install it :p


[13:43] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: ping
[15:52] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: pong me when you're around, I have DVD artwork/examples for you
[17:06] <ahoneybun> hello
[17:06] <ahoneybun> pong mhall119
[17:06] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: try this link, see if it downloads a .zip https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/593daaf28e858d408453ca315288dda420150625113440/78136ef8ed702526ea9a14efeda98be920150625113440/774420
[17:06] <ahoneybun> I thought I was CC'd
[17:07] <mhall119> they're PDFs, so I don't know how easy/useful they will be, but it's what Canonical uses to print
[17:08] <ahoneybun> I see
[17:08] <ahoneybun> downloading now
[17:08] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: if you need more than that, let me know
[17:09] <ahoneybun> thanks michael
[17:10] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: I'm trying to get price estimates now, to see if we should just pre-print a whole bunch and give them out on request, or print them on a per-request basis
[17:10] <ahoneybun> awesomeness
[17:11] <ahoneybun> I would like to have some for akademy but I know with the timeslot left it might be a pipe dream
[17:17] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: good point, I'll ask about lead-time on printing them too
[17:19] <ahoneybun> why no svgs...
[17:19] <ahoneybun> and sizes
[17:19] <ahoneybun> I'm trying to design around their red marks
[17:49] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: I think as long as your proportions are correct and it's a high enough resolution, we'll be fine
[17:50] <mhall119> the design team are mac-addicts, so I might be able to get you PSD files, but not SVG
[17:52] <ahoneybun> Mac's really?
[17:52] <ahoneybun> what th
[17:52] <ahoneybun> very similar to business cards then
[17:56] <mhall119> ahoneybun_: yeah, they were trained on macs, had all their experience on macs, and they were hired to make designs not specifically to use FOSS tools
[18:00] <Nothing_Much> psd files?
[18:00] <ahoneybun> mhall119:  I have a sample
[18:01] <Nothing_Much> agh, photoshop
[18:01] <ahoneybun> mhall119: http://imgur.com/QlrYf6D
[18:03] <Nothing_Much> ahoneybun, Every argument that I hear is that FOSS tools aren't up to par with proprietary tools like Adobe garbage
[18:03] <ahoneybun> Nothing_Much: I made that with GIMP so I beg to differ :)
[18:03] <mhall119> Nothing_Much: I doubt that's true, it's more likely that the tools you are familiar with *feel* more capable than new ones
[18:04] <Nothing_Much> People hate change I guess, and since GIMP has a reputation of "not being as good as Photoshop"... too many crazies in software.
[18:04] <mhall119> ahoneybun: looks good, do you need to get these designs approved by the rest of Kubuntu before we get them printed?
[18:04] <ahoneybun> I'm trying to get options
[18:04] <ahoneybun> opinion
[18:05] <Nothing_Much> Phoronix says that Kubuntu 15.10 might be the end of the line for Kubuntu or something..
[18:05] <ahoneybun> riddell tells me that we can use the artwork from KDE Design team
[18:06] <ahoneybun> mhall119: might want to put a tag saying about the team that did the artwork
[18:06] <ahoneybun> Nothing_Much: link please
[18:06] <Nothing_Much> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Kubuntu-15.10-Worrying-State man hexchat's annoying
[18:07] <mhall119> ahoneybun: it's up to you guys how close you want to be to KDE design and how much you want to use your own branding
[18:07] <ahoneybun> mhall119: I know but their artwork is amazing :_
[18:07] <ahoneybun> :)
[18:08] <Nothing_Much> Anything that resembles the Ubuntu circle of friends icon is amazing
[18:08] <Nothing_Much> logo*
[18:08] <mhall119> ahoneybun: I know, but if other distros are using it too, it might not be obvious at a glance (say, walking by a booth at a conference) that it's a Kubuntu DVD
[18:08] <ahoneybun> it has the Logo and wordmark on it
[18:08] <mhall119> if nobody else is using it, and KDE is okay with Kubuntu using it (not sure how they feel about their trademarks used this way)
[18:08] <mhall119> then it would be okay
[18:09] <ahoneybun> mhall119: I'll ask around
[18:09] <mhall119> ahoneybun: sounds good, as long as KDE and Kubuntu are happy with it, so am I
[18:09] <ahoneybun> awesome, I'll grab some opinions and legal advise before hand
[18:10] <mhall119> ahoneybun: also need to decide if you guys want DVDs for the latest release, or just the latest LTS
[18:10] <ahoneybun> well that design has the latest on it, and the artwork is from Plasma5 so
[18:10] <ahoneybun> let me talk to them first
[18:10] <mhall119> for now you probably want the latest, since it has Plasma 5, but at 16.04 it might make sense to just print a lot more of those
[18:11] <ahoneybun> yea a LTS of course
[18:11] <ahoneybun> but we'll see once we get to 15.10
[18:11] <mhall119> yup
[19:39] <ahoneybun> mhall119: http://imgur.com/a/axpzW
[19:44] <mhall119> ahoneybun: looks good, remember you can put something inside the sleeve too if you want (IIRC, the Ubuntu DVDs put the animal logo inside)
[19:45] <ahoneybun> yea but the vivid one is not the best
[19:45] <mhall119> ahoneybun: you can always put a big Kubuntu logo inside
[19:45] <ahoneybun> right
[19:49] <ahoneybun> I've sent a email to the -devel ML about it and waiting for replys
[19:49] <ahoneybun> should have a decision by the end of the day mhall119
[19:49] <mhall119> ahoneybun: cool, it'll probably take me longer than that to get cost estimates
[19:50] <ahoneybun> of course
[19:50] <ahoneybun> but the design is the longest part
[19:50] <ahoneybun> btw this was all made in GIMP mhall119 :)
[19:50] <ahoneybun> http://imgur.com/a/axpzW
[19:50] <ahoneybun> new back
[20:54] <ahoneybun> mhall119: can I get the DVD label art as well?
[21:00] <mhall119> ahoneybun: wasn't that in there?
[21:01] <ahoneybun> correct sorry
[21:27] <ahoneybun> mhall119: think it would be possiable to get a few (like 10) in another language?
[21:41] <mhall119> ahoneybun: small runs will be more expensive, I don't think less than 100 of anything will be worth it
[21:42] <ahoneybun> maybe 150 english ones and we'll put the source files on the Kubuntu website for users in LoCo to easily translate
[21:42] <ahoneybun> or ask Canonical to make them later
[22:02] <mhall119> ahoneybun: definitely put the source files online, that way people could even just print their own


[00:00] <pleia2> akgraner: I sent an email a couple weeks ago (May 22nd), re: Created SuggestedHowToEdit, can you take a look and give some feedback?
[00:00] <pleia2> also, since we're postponing the meeting (which was supposed to be now?) are we still going for this weekend as relaunch?
[04:28] <NRWlion> morning!
[04:30] <NRWlion> nobody awake ?
[05:11] <nhandler> akgraner, pleia2: Sorry for not being able to attend the meeting. I had graduation
[05:12] <nhandler> akgraner: Are you still planning on sending out that second email or blog post about the leadership team?
[05:15] <pleia2> nhandler: congrats :)
[05:15] <pleia2> I think the meeting was canceled anyway
[05:16] <nhandler> Thanks pleia2
[05:17] <pleia2> working on jono's post from the mailing list for fridge
[05:19]  * nhandler hugs pleia2
[05:20]  * pleia2 hugs :)
[14:37] <akgraner> nhandler, I'll use most of the information you added to the wiki and see what else from this week can be added to GCN and write an intro/explanation about the re-launch and move it over to the new template
[14:38] <akgraner> and see what still needs to be done before tomorrow and we alert the translation teams
[14:38] <akgraner> nhandler, thanks for all your awesome work btw...
[14:53] <nhandler> akgraner: Cool
[16:10] <NRWlion> hi every1, its weekend time!
[16:10]  * NRWlion dances happily through the chan
[16:14] <NRWlion> akgraner: ping
[16:14] <akgraner> NRWlion, yes - and btw where did you sent the email to
[16:15] <akgraner> ubuntu-news-team?
[16:15] <NRWlion><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:15] <akgraner> hmmm
[16:15] <NRWlion> why?
[16:15] <akgraner> I'm not seeing it
[16:15]  * akgraner looks again
[16:16] <NRWlion> well i have it
[16:16] <NRWlion> in my daily mail from the list it was in
[16:16] <NRWlion> i can send you the original version if needed
[16:16] <akgraner> k
[16:16] <akgraner> nah let me fix things on this end
[16:17] <akgraner> NRWlion, don't get in too big of a rush....I love you excitement, but we have a lot to work out...:-)  I guess I am just asking for you to be patient with me as I work through a couple of things
[16:18] <NRWlion> akgraner: :D hey i was just answering your question
[16:18] <NRWlion> i am sorry that it went such a long mail
[16:18] <akgraner> :-)
[16:18] <akgraner> no worries
[16:18] <NRWlion> btw hi Jono!
[16:18] <NRWlion> akgraner: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2011-June/001312.html
[16:18] <NRWlion> there you find my mail
[16:20] <akgraner> Thanks you!
[16:20] <akgraner> I'll get to it as soon as I can
[16:21] <jono> hey NRWlion :-)
[16:21] <NRWlion> akgraner: i have other stuff to do and will be offline for a while so
[16:22] <akgraner> k thanks!
[16:22] <NRWlion> jono: akgraner and i had a loooong talk yesterday and ... yeah some pages where writen (see my link earlier ;))
[16:23] <akgraner> NRWlion, you don't need to inform jono of everything really....
[16:23] <akgraner> :-)
[16:23] <NRWlion> akgraner: i dont inform him i am just having small talk
[16:23] <NRWlion> ;)
[16:24] <jono> NRWlion, glad all is going well :-)
[16:24] <akgraner> I think I'm not sounding like I mean....sorry about that
[16:24]  * NRWlion nods and thanks jono again ...
[16:25] <NRWlion> akgraner: understood your point ;)
[16:32] <NRWlion> akgraner: just a short question regarding the meeting you mentioned yesterday: is there one or is it canceled?
[16:32] <akgraner> NRWlion, at some point today - I'll see who is around and we will have an informal meeting
[16:32] <akgraner> that's about all I can do for ow
[16:32] <akgraner> now
[16:33] <NRWlion> akgraner: dont feel pushed from me ;)
[16:33] <NRWlion> i was just asking because i planned to go out tonight and visiting a concert
[16:34] <akgraner> NRWlion, do your thing there will be a log of anything discussed
[16:34] <akgraner> and I'll send it out
[16:34] <NRWlion> akgraner: willco
[16:40] <zkriesse_> Well hello Mrs. Graner!
[16:40] <NRWlion> cu folks. paperwork's waiting ...
[16:40] <zkriesse_> And how are you?
[18:02] <NRWlion> leaving now wishing you all a great evening
[18:02] <NRWlion> !
[18:52] <akgraner> email that I sent to the list has now been added to my blog and posted to the planet
[18:53] <akgraner> I'll outline the leadership team roles and team organization suggestion next per nhandler's request
[18:53] <pleia2> akgraner: and my email from a couple weeks ago?
[18:54] <akgraner> pleia2, ummmm.....
[18:54] <akgraner> I may have  missed that
[18:54] <pleia2> 16:00:13 < pleia2> akgraner: I sent an email a couple weeks ago (May 22nd), re: Created SuggestedHowToEdit, can you take a look and give some feedback?
[18:54] <akgraner> oh that
[18:55] <akgraner> sorry - I remember that now...I liked it - will give you feedback asap
[18:55] <pleia2> thanks :)
[18:55] <akgraner> that wasn't the org I was going to describe in this next post though
[18:55] <pleia2> ok
[18:56] <pleia2> well this is pretty important, and I spent a lot of time on it, so I'd rather not see it be ignored
[19:02] <akgraner> pleia2, not ignoring it  - promise..just had an emergency come up
[19:03] <pleia2> sure, I mean moving forward, we should review it soon
[19:03] <akgraner> nods...will do that before the weekend is over (promise :-D)
[19:14] <akgraner> so I was thinking nhandler and pleia2 for the fridge....
[19:15] <akgraner> holstein, NRWlion, nigelb, and highvoltage to handle UWN
[19:16] <akgraner> until the team can vote on a team
[19:23] <akgraner> I've reached out to jcastro and jono in a pm to ask that I temp assign ownership of the related news teams to the community team until the re'org and leadership team is decided upon
[19:24] <akgraner> I'll give my ideas and suggestions, turn over ownership, then back away and let you all work your magic as a team
[19:25] <nhandler> akgraner: It might be easier (at least if you are still going to be online) if you keep ownership until the leadership team
[19:26] <nhandler> akgraner: I also have no issue helping out with getting UWN out the door (especially if we are no longer aiming for weekly releases) now that school is done
[19:26] <akgraner> nhandler, not sure I will be on IRC much
[19:26] <akgraner> we want to aim for weekly again
[19:28]  * nhandler thinks wehavegone full circle now
[19:28] <nhandler> * we have gone
[19:38] <akgraner> nods
[19:38] <akgraner> I just want to make sure UWN is not tied to a person but a whole team
[19:38] <akgraner> and that's more open etc
[19:39] <akgraner> so I'll finish blogging today about the vision I had and see who all can run with things
[19:39] <akgraner> and I think jono and his team will be willing to help as well
[19:40] <NRWlion> hey there
[19:48] <holstein> holstein: o/
[19:49] <akgraner> I'm working on the email and blog now ...
[19:49] <akgraner> and I'll have a call with jono shortly
[19:50]  * NRWlion will be in the background working on his other machine
[19:50] <NRWlion> but if needed, just ping me after i return
[19:52] <akgraner> will do
[19:53] <NRWlion> for now i am taking some "me" time and get dressed for the evening @ home
[19:54] <NRWlion> cu laters!
[20:03] <akgraner> spoke to highvoltage hopefully he'll be helping again soon as well :-)
[20:05] <akgraner> and for the record as I told him - I was completely wrong in how I handled many parts of the UWN session at UDS and  how I responded to highvoltage for that I apologize to everyone for my actions hurt, discouraged, or frustrated....
[20:06] <akgraner> for my actions that hurt....
[20:06] <akgraner> now on to get all this worked out :-)
[20:16] <NRWlion> lets see: coke, ice-cream, my machine... yep, i am ready ;)
[20:32] <NRWlion> afk
[20:52] <NRWlion> hi
[22:03] <akgraner> so jake edge from LWN sent me a great email with some wonderful suggestions I'll pass along to the team as well
[22:08] <NRWlion> akgraner: sounds good
[23:16] <NRWlion> returned
[23:56] <akgraner> so the UWN, Fridge Editors, and Newsletter Translations teams will be owned by the news team and the ownership of the news team will be temp owned by the community team
[23:56] <akgraner> (these refer to the LP teams)
[23:57] <akgraner> in order for the news team to no longer be associated to an individual but as and to a team I'm making these ownership changes
[23:58] <akgraner> once the team elects/selects it's leaders the news team in LP will be owned by the news team leadership team
[23:59] <akgraner> the community team will be available if there are any pressing issues that come up once I have stepped away from the team


[00:01] <ubotu> New bug: #208566 in bzr-svn "missed commit never get pushed between branches and trunk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208566
[00:12] <james_w> beuno: nice photos. The make you look like you spent a week whiteboard shopping
[00:37] <bronson> Hi.  I have a single repo tracking an upstream bzr project.
[00:38] <bronson> I'd like to have 3 different local configurations, and be able to merge between them during development.
[00:38] <bronson> In git, I'd just have 3 branches.
[00:38] <bronson> I don't quite see how to accomplish the same thing in bzr?
[00:39] <bronson> (the changes are very small so I'd like to keep everything in the same repo)
[00:39] <james_w> bronson: you are confusing the terms repo and branch, from the bzr point of view anyway
[00:40] <james_w> you currently have a single branch tracking an upstream project
[00:40] <bronson> OK so far.
[00:40] <james_w> so in bzr you would make three branches and merge between them
[00:40] <james_w> just like git
[00:40] <james_w> however bzr identifies branches with a location on the filesystem, so unfortunately you need three copies of the upstream source
[00:41] <bronson> ack.
[00:41] <bronson> not good.
[00:41] <james_w> however if you use what's called a "shared repository" then you can share the history between them, which makes it less painful
[00:41] <bronson> OK, I'll look into shared repository.
[00:41] <bronson> thanks!
[00:41] <fullermd> And you could always blow away the WT's of the branches you aren't using at a given time.
[00:42]  * fullermd does that with some regularity.
[00:42] <james_w> there are two ways that you can use a single directory to do what you want, they're not that straightforward, but they will work.
[00:42] <james_w> the first is to use the "loom" plugin, that provide functionality similar to git-style branches. However looms are ordered, so it's a bit different.
[00:43] <james_w> the other, and probably better way for you, is to use a "checkout" and the switch command.
[00:43] <TFKyle> james_w: I assume it'd be pretty hard not to have 3 copies of the source (hmm, a custom FUSE fs might be able to do that actually, then only create new copies on-demand when you save first)
[00:43] <bronson> Ah, I saw the switch command in the faq.
[00:43] <TFKyle> (working copy wise that is)
[00:44] <james_w> there you create a treeless shared repository, with the tree branches.
[00:44] <james_w> this still takes up three directories, but the cost is minimal, about a dozen files in total, and virtually zero size
[00:44] <james_w> you then use "bzr checkout" of one to create a working area.
[00:44] <TFKyle> ah, guess loom/shelve would sort of work, as long as you don't need them both to exist on the filesystem concurrently
[00:45] <james_w> you can then use the switch command to change which branch your working area is pointed at, which makes it act like "git checkout" here.
[00:45] <james_w> I can walk you through the steps if you like.
[00:45] <bronson> Shared repo doesn't seem to do what I want...  It still has individual WTs.
[00:45] <bronson> That second suggestion sounds more like it.
[00:46] <bronson> switch command.
[00:46] <james_w> TFKyle: I guess shelve would work as well, but it's not what I'd do.
[00:46] <bronson> I can picture how it would work.
[00:46] <james_w> bronson: yeah, I think it's the winner for you.
[00:46] <james_w> bzr init-repo --no-trees project
[00:46] <orutherfurd> hi, can anyone give me pointers re figuring out files involved in a revision (added, modified, removed, renamed)?  I'm trying to write an importer from bzr to hg and while parsing bzr output is easier, I figure using bzrlib would be better.
[00:46] <james_w> cd project
[00:46] <bronson> OK, thanks james_w
[00:46] <james_w> bzr branch whatever
[00:47] <james_w> then bzr checkout branch working-area
[00:47] <james_w> cd working-area
[00:47] <james_w> and play with switch, passing it the path of the branch that you want to work on
[00:47] <james_w> also see cbranch from bzrtools if you are going to be creating a lot of new branches with this style.
[00:48] <james_w> hopefully we'll have some improvements in this area soon to make your workflow easier.
[00:48] <james_w> orutherfurd: get the revision_id
[00:48] <james_w> then tree = repository.revision_tree(revision_id)
[00:49] <james_w> changes = tree.changes_from(tree.basis_tree())
[00:49] <james_w> changes is then a tree delta
[00:49] <james_w> it has .added .removed .renamed etc.
[00:49] <james_w> you can also pass the parent trees directly if you need to know what changed compared to each parent.
[00:50] <orutherfurd> james_w: that's great, though, does basis_tree() the 'tip'?
[00:51] <orutherfurd> oh, right -- didn't see your last message
[00:51] <james_w> orutherfurd: does this mean you are converting away from bzr, or are you a hg user that wants to use that to work on a bzr project?
[00:53] <orutherfurd> james_w: well, I am a bzr user, but at work we'll be moving to hg -- and want to convert projects we have in bzr
[00:53] <james_w> ah, ok.
[00:53] <james_w> can I ask why you are moving?
[00:57] <orutherfurd> sure, there are a few reasons: people find the docs better (the hg book), the convert extension worked really well (we're also converting some cvs repositories), plus other extensions people like (mq, springs to mind), the bundled web viewer which can be run as a cgi (vs loggerhead which has lots of deps)
[00:57] <orutherfurd> (not to hit you with a pile of reasons)
[00:58] <orutherfurd> the main reason for starting w/bzr was not needing to install software on a central server, but with the ssh directory permission problems, that didn't end up working
[00:59] <orutherfurd> but from a maintenance point of view, having to install 1 piece of software, vs bzr + plugins, etc... is easier -- we're running an ancient version of rhel
[00:59] <james_w> cool, thanks
[01:00] <james_w> most of those are known I think.
[01:00] <james_w> there is bzr-webserve which is a port of the hg one, so it runs the same way
[01:01] <orutherfurd> oh, right -- I'd forgotten about that
[01:02] <james_w> I can argue with the rest of your reasons as well if you would like :-)
[01:02] <orutherfurd> if you' like :-P
[01:05] <orutherfurd> have been using bzr since 2005 though, so not new to it, but for our setup, I think hg is a better fit; I do use bzr for personal stuff, so as not to come off as totally down on it ;-)
[01:09] <james_w> longer than me then, so I'm sure you know it all
[01:12] <orutherfurd> certainly didn't mean to suggest that -- otherwise I wouldn't be hear asking for help!
[01:12] <orutherfurd> hear -> here
[01:13] <orutherfurd> just figured I should disclose I've been hanging aorund for a while (reading the lists and as an end-user) for a while before you started in on your convincing ;-)
[01:14] <james_w> well, ok
[01:14] <james_w> the hg book is a great asset for them. The bzr docs have improved a lot recently thanks to Ian, but they are still lagging.
[01:15] <james_w> I'm not familiar with the convert extension, but hopefully bzr-fastimport will be stable soon, and that should be really useful
[01:16] <orutherfurd> the bzr docs do seem much improved lately
[01:16] <james_w> bzr-loom is intended to do a similar thing to mq, and it has some features that I don't think mq has
[01:16] <james_w> it's not there yet though
[01:17] <james_w> the installation point is tricky, I think you are right.
[01:17] <orutherfurd> the convert extension is pretty neat -- you provide some classes to interact as source or sink for another vcs and then you can, well, convert
[01:17] <james_w> However bzr doesn't actually require installation, as long as you have python >= 2.4 and paramiko etc.
[01:18] <orutherfurd> it already has support for cvs, svn, git, and darcs, I think
[01:18] <awmcclain> Is there a way to specify a different status bar type via the command line?
[01:18] <james_w> and plugins can just be dropped in bzrlib/plugins
[01:18] <james_w> though keeping them up to date can be a pain, hopefully beuno's work will make that really easy soon
[01:18] <james_w> awmcclain: I don't think so.
[01:19] <awmcclain> okee doke.
[01:19] <james_w> I think there is an environment variable
[01:19] <orutherfurd> james_w: initially, the big draw was not having to install bzr on the server (which is the primary reason I use it for personal projects)
[01:19] <james_w> that's a pretty neat feature.
[01:27] <fullermd> Funnily enough, I've always considered that one of the least important features  :)
[01:31] <awmcclain> Ok, I'm in a funky state. I thought I was working on a checkout, but it's actually a branch. I've made one checkin. I can't ci after I bind because my tree is "out of date". I'm pretty sure if I merge, I'll lose my updates. What should I do?
[01:31] <fullermd> You need to 'update' after bind.
[01:32] <awmcclain> Won't that remove the file I just added in my local ci?
[01:32] <fullermd> No, it turns what you have locally that isn't upstream into a pending merge.
[01:41] <awmcclain> hrm. ok. conflicts. "conflicts:
[01:41] <awmcclain>   Conflict: can't delete load_tests because it is not empty.  Not deleting.
[01:41] <awmcclain>   Conflict adding file load_tests.  Moved existing file to load_tests.moved."
[01:42] <awmcclain> Ah, I see. Looks like I've deleted the directory and then readded. Hrm. How do I resolve the conflilct without removing my changes?
[01:43] <james_w> put the directory that you want there, and then run resolve load_tests
[02:26] <ubotu> New bug: #208608 in bzr-gtk "bzr-icon-64.png not included in package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208608
[13:00] <MrLieven> hi
[13:00] <MrLieven> is there a way to combine two bzr branches into one
[13:01] <i386_> perhaps your looking at merging ?
[13:01] <i386_> check the docs
[13:01] <MrLieven> ie. I have one bazaar branch, and want to import a different bazaar branch into a subfolder of that branch
[13:01] <Kinnison> aah yes
[13:01] <Kinnison> yes there is
[13:01] <MrLieven> how?:)
[13:01] <Kinnison> give me a sec
[13:01]  * Kinnison is working it out again
[13:02] <james_w> MrLieven: you can use "join"
[13:02] <MrLieven> ok, i'll look it up
[13:02] <james_w> however it is pretty experimental at the moment
[13:02] <james_w> and will probably break in interesting ways
[13:03] <MrLieven> hmm.. well, I can give it a try:)
[13:03] <Kinnison> The way I was taught was:
[13:03] <james_w> There is also a "merge-into" plugin that can do this, but if you want to continue merging from the other branch it does some interesting things.
[13:03] <james_w> Is this a one time thing?
[13:03] <Kinnison> in the branch you've adding *IN*, commit a change moving everything into the subdir of the name you want
[13:03] <MrLieven> james_w, probably only once, yes
[13:04] <Kinnison> then in the branch you're merging *TO*, do: bzr merge -r 0..-1 /branch/you/bring/in
[13:04] <Kinnison> but that is a one-time-only operation
[13:04] <james_w> that would work too.
[13:05] <Kinnison> That's how Aranha (one of my programs) has a branch with three ultimate ancestors :-)
[13:07] <AnMaster> is there something like git bisect for bzr?
[13:07] <dato> there is a bzr-bisect plugin
[13:07]  * AnMaster googles
[13:07] <MrLieven> I guess I will go for kinnison's solution. Sounds the safest
[13:08] <MrLieven> thx
[13:08] <AnMaster> how do you install plugins? can you do it in your home dir?
[13:08] <AnMaster> I don't want to mess up /usr/lib really
[13:08] <dato> AnMaster: drop it in ~/.bazaar/plugins/bisect
[13:09] <AnMaster> ok, I don't know python, don't you need a setup.py thing or something (why can't everyone just use a single build system...(
[13:09] <AnMaster> s/($/)/
[13:09] <james_w> AnMaster: no, just place it there.
[13:10] <AnMaster> hm
[13:10] <AnMaster> Unable to load 'bzr-bisect' in '/home/arvid/.bazaar/plugins' as a plugin because file path isn't a valid module name; try renaming it to 'bzr_bisect'.
[13:10] <AnMaster> hm
[13:11] <james_w> AnMaster: as dato said use ~/.bazaar/plugins/bisect
[13:11] <AnMaster> ah seems it didn't like the result of a plain  bzr branch lp:bzr-bisect
[13:11] <james_w> yeah, that's unfortunate
[13:12]  * dato wonders if bzr-bisect, the directory, could not be imported as bzr_bisect
[13:12] <dato> but, alas, I don't know much about python's import mechanism
[13:13] <AnMaster> I'm no python programmer
[13:13]  * AnMaster codes in C
[13:14] <james_w> dato: I think it used to work, but it was changed so that one plugin could use bits from another
[13:15] <james_w> I think that may still work with your scheme, but it makes it harder to know what the other plugin will be named for the import statement
[13:15] <dato> yes; but that relies on for example plugin bzr-foo being installed as directory "foo" and not "bzr_foo"?
[13:16] <dato> what I meant, it would be nice if the directory could be named $whatever, and then for its code to appear under bzrlib.plugins.<name_provided_by_the_code_inside_the_plugin>
[13:16] <asabil> I agree with dato on this
[13:16] <asabil> also it would be cool to have a plugin-manager plugin
[13:18] <dato> james_w: btw, two things bzr has that git doesn't: (1) patience diff; (2) pulling into a dirty tree where the pulled revisions touch dirty files (and, relatedly, merge --force)
[13:18] <TFKyle> dato: hmm, I'd expect it to be possible with sys.modules hacking, might be a bit ugly doing it though (havn't looked at bzr's plugin code though)
[13:19] <TFKyle> hmm, actually it might be slightly harder than just changing sys.modules, probably need to change the bzrlib.plugins namespace as well
[13:19] <james_w> dato: cool thanks. Is patience diff that much better?
[13:19] <dato> it seems git will always refuse merge files with uncommitted changes, no matter how hard you try to convince it to do so (as far as I've investigated, that is)
[13:20] <james_w> dato: yeah, I think Robert's proposal for plugin metadata may allow that
[13:20] <james_w> asabil: beuno_ is working on one
[13:21] <dato> james_w: well, I guess I've only noticed the cases where it's indeed better (in my case, mostly rewriting a file). but other git users have told me that, indeed, git is very willing to consider empty lines as "common" lines, thus making big changes appear interspersed with the old, deleted code
[13:22] <dato> james_w: (http://chistera.yi.org/~adeodato/tmp/2008-03-28/diff/ fwiw)
[13:24] <james_w> wow, thanks
[13:24] <AnMaster> dato, not very useful that bisect, it gives a traceback
[13:24] <AnMaster> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.RuntimeError: attempting to add revid<EMAIL_ADDRESS>twice
[13:25] <james_w> ouch
[13:25] <dato> aha. well, I'm afraid I can't be of much help, I've never used, only knew that it exists.
[13:27] <james_w> are you using https://code.launchpad.net/~jeff-licquia/bzr-bisect/bzr-bisect ?
[13:27] <james_w> ah, you did lp:bzr-bisect didn't you? so you will
[13:28] <james_w> AnMaster: can you rub with -Derror and pastebin the traceback?
[13:28] <AnMaster> rub?
[13:28] <asabil> run
[13:28] <AnMaster> ok
[13:28] <asabil> :)
[13:29] <AnMaster> like bzr -Derror bisect ...  or?
[13:29] <AnMaster> also I think I need to redo the bisect from start as it is probably messed up now
[13:30] <AnMaster> anyway I did run with -Derror, no change in output
[13:30] <asabil> paste the output in a pastebin
[13:30] <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/dBp98k79.html
[13:32] <AnMaster> asabil, yes I did just then
[13:32]  * AnMaster waits
[13:33] <asabil> poke james_w
[13:33] <AnMaster> james_w, there?
[13:33] <AnMaster> james_w, http://rafb.net/p/dBp98k79.html
[13:33] <james_w> hehe, rub with -Derror
[13:33] <AnMaster> james_w, I did that yes?
[13:33] <AnMaster> $ bzr -Derror bisect yes
[13:33] <AnMaster> looks like a -Derror to me
[13:33] <james_w> I was just laughing at my typo
[13:34] <AnMaster> ah
[13:34] <james_w> ok, talk me through all the steps you did
[13:34] <AnMaster> james_w, was looking for a bug, so I started with bzr bisect start on my source (can be found at http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/cfunge)
[13:35] <AnMaster> and did bzr good first to tell it the last had the think I wanted to check
[13:35] <AnMaster> err bzr bisect good*
[13:35] <AnMaster> do you want the order of good and bad bisects?
[13:35] <AnMaster> james_w, if it matters I got this branch in a shared repo
[13:36] <AnMaster> I can pastebin entire output if you want
[13:36] <james_w> yeah, pastebin the session please
[13:37] <james_w> I've never used it, and so I'm not sure whether you're doing something wrong or it's really buggy
[13:37] <AnMaster> a sec just need to check for any sensitive info
[13:37] <james_w> ok
[13:38] <AnMaster> james_w, http://rafb.net/p/0wxvte63.html
[13:39] <AnMaster> now I am happy I did a branch for this and didn't just run it in trunk
[13:39] <AnMaster> james_w, what I'm doing is looking for when the test suite started outputting odd non-printable chars in case you wonder
[13:41] <AnMaster> james_w, any idea? :(
[13:41] <AnMaster> branch format is pack-0.92
[13:41] <AnMaster> if it matters
[13:42] <james_w> so you land on "BUGFIX: Fixing a series of improbable bugs that together made mycology pass on y when it shouldn't have..."
[13:42] <james_w> twice, so it might well be a bug in the plugin
[13:42] <AnMaster> james_w, not sure where I should have landed exactly, that is what I'm trying to find out using bisect :)
[13:43] <AnMaster> james_w, but that one sounds quite possible like the one that could have caused it, the changes were in the affected area so
[13:44] <AnMaster> the old way was broken too, but looks like new is as well heh
[14:04] <james_w> AnMaster: I can't see anywhere in the code that actually reports that you have found the critical revision, which is odd
[14:04] <AnMaster> indeed
[14:05] <james_w> can you tell me if the revision mentioned above is a merge revision?
[14:05] <AnMaster> james_w, no I have not worked with anyone else on this project, or rather they sent classical patches from diff -Naur
[14:05] <AnMaster> and I only used one branch
[14:06] <AnMaster> up until now where I branched to do a bisect
[14:06] <james_w> ok, it's proabably just that problem then
[14:06] <AnMaster> I do not wish to mess up my trunk
[14:06] <james_w> a "bzr revert" will undo anything that bisect does
[14:06] <AnMaster> yes, except it places some files into .bzr
[14:07] <james_w> a bzr bisect reset should remove those I think
[14:07] <james_w> however the plugin looks dangerous as it doesn't check for uncommitted changes in the tree first.
[14:07] <AnMaster> james_w, anyway I got stuff in trunk that is not versioned (stuff like test files and so on) and jumping between revisions where the file doesn't exist could cause problems
[14:08] <AnMaster> I mean directory where file is doesn't exist
[14:09]  * AnMaster removes the bisect plugin from his system
[14:36] <ChristopheT> Is there a reason when pushing through FTP that the .bzr/checkout/ is not trasferred?
[14:37] <ChristopheT> This may be a problem when FTP pushing but others trying to branch via HTTP (some services only allow FTP upload).
[14:51] <james_w> ChristopheT: yes, that's the expected behaviour
[14:51] <james_w> you only push the branch, not the working tree
[14:52] <james_w> others will be able to branch from that fine
[14:52] <james_w> however if you want the working tree files to be available on disk on the server you are a bit stuck
[14:59] <ChristopheT> My problem is exactly the following https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/129307 (the dummy server configuration -- of the service provider -- redirects the URL instead of issuing a 404)
[14:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129307 in bzr "Unable to branch from http server after ftp push" [Undecided,New]
[14:59] <ChristopheT> How do I go about it?
[15:08] <james_w> ChristopheT: is there anyway you can override this behaviour?
[15:08] <james_w> ChristopheT: for instance a .htaccess?
[15:08] <james_w> it would perhaps be possible to make bzr handle this better, I don't know
[15:32] <muszek> hi
[15:33] <muszek> my bzr suddenly started to freeze while commiting to a repo that's binded to an external server
[15:34] <muszek> I have bzr 1.2.0.candidate.1 (on Hardy) and 1.1.0.candidate.1 (on production server running Debian Sarge)
[15:38] <muszek> here's the output: http://pastebin.us/?show=m2e622911
[15:40] <bob2> press cancel?
[15:40] <bob2> ctrl-c?
[15:41] <muszek> bob2: that's what I did...
[15:41] <muszek> bob2: then I do bzr break-lock and repeat commit - same thing happens
[15:41] <bob2> is it still doing anything or really hung?
[15:41] <bob2> e.g. does tcpdump show traffic
[15:41] <muszek> I'll try to run it
[15:43] <muszek> err... I don't think I'll be able to learn using tcpdump in the next few minutes :)
[15:44] <bob2> 'sudo tcpdump host poradnik.org and port 22'
[15:44] <muszek> the commit is rather small (I'd say less than 1kB of changes in 4 files)
[15:44] <bob2> does ssh'ing normally work fine and as fast as expected?
[15:45] <muszek> yes
[15:46] <muszek> hmmmm... not as fast as usually.  I've just initiated a download over ssh - 15kB/s
[15:48] <muszek> upload goes at 8kB/s... could that be a reason?
[15:48] <bob2> still should only take 1/8th of a second, right ;)
[15:49] <muszek> yep
[15:49] <bob2> ~/.bzr.log might show you where it's stuck
[15:49] <muszek> well, it was never extremely fast, but commits usually took 10-20 seconds
[15:49] <muszek> ok
[15:52] <muszek> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/temp/.bzr.log
[15:55] <bob2> it says it was packing the remote repository...does 'ssh -t<EMAIL_ADDRESS>bzr pack -v /home/tomekg/ifront/app/' return quickly or sit for a while?
[15:57] <muszek> bob2: it executes in 14 seconds
[16:01] <bob2> does commit work now?
[16:02] <muszek> doing it right now...
[16:03] <muszek> btw... I had an old commit hanging in there for some time... it finished with an error 'bzr: ERROR: No such file: '/home/tomekg/ifront/app/.bzr/repository/packs/631446bfbfbaf528bfa3518f048fd76d.pack'' (propably after that bzr pack you gave me)
[16:03] <muszek> it finished successfully
[16:03] <muszek> thank you very much
[16:03] <bob2> yay
[16:03] <bob2> no worries
[16:04] <bob2> dunno why that helped, maybe the autopack code executes on the client instead of the server
[16:04] <muszek> I'll keep that command around in case it happens again
[16:06] <muszek> well thanks again and have a nice weekend :)
[16:06] <bob2> you too :)
[16:06] <muszek> bye
[17:16] <ubotu> New bug: #208869 in bzr "info command failed at committers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208869
[17:42] <cdleary> I just did a bzr split [subdir] and now performing bzr status in the subdir returns "No working tree exists for [subdir]/.bzr/checkout/"
[17:42] <LasseP_> hi
[17:43] <LasseP_> does bazaar work with ant?
[17:44] <bob2> in the sense that sccs works with make?
[17:44] <luks> how does a version control system need to work with a build system?
[17:44] <bob2> (as in magically checking thins out)
[17:45] <LasseP_> i used to work with CVS and now i'm thinking about switching to bzr. i used ant as a build system so i can commit my changes, update specific working copies in a specific testing environment and to create automatic releases with just one keystroke ;)
[17:46] <bob2> what does cvs integration does ant have?
[17:46] <bob2> (I've never heard of it nor of simialr integration wih bzr)
[17:48] <LasseP_> ant has some tasks available to work with CVS. i was wondering if there is something like that for bzr.. otherwise i will just execute the command lines from ant
[17:49] <james_w> I've not heard of it
[17:49] <james_w> you could probably write the stuff for ant to do it and then share it with everyone
[17:50] <LasseP_> i will write the ant file, so it will execute the bzr commands. :)
[22:49] <gdoubleu> I've got a bunch of small fixes to the core_concepts.txt docs.  Would it be ok to submit that as one patch or should I break it up?
[22:51] <gdoubleu> Also I tried looking for some sort of style document for the documentation, but didn't find anything.  Are there any defined standards for the documentation?
[22:51] <gdoubleu> For example, I noticed that bulleted lists had inconsistent indention.
[22:52] <gdoubleu> Some, the bullet started in the first column of the line, and others it was spaced over one or two spaces.


[12:34] <santa_> good afternoon everyone
[12:34] <santa_> RikMills: fw 5.113 completed, at the moment, I don't plan to change more things in the packaging
[12:35] <santa_> so please go ahead with the riscv experiments
[12:35] <santa_> also, misc news/info:
[12:36] <santa_> - oxygen-icons tarball was renamed, just updating one file ka-metadata made KA work fine; the metadata is in the frameworks_staging branch btw
[12:37] <santa_> - I have pushed another fix for ppa-build-status, now it should work both with recent and ancient versions of Ubuntu
[12:38] <santa_> - for breeze-icons, I changed the package to not install arch specific cmake files, we were having a lintian warning for a while; if these files are actually needed for anything, they should go to a separate arch-specific package
[12:39] <RikMills> santa_: I have conformed it is the riscv64 builder change, rather than any other change in noble, by no change rebuidling the manic kconfig package
[12:39] <RikMills> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4979/+sourcepub/15413039/+listing-archive-extra
[12:39] <RikMills> it fails in the same way
[12:40] <santa_> ah, I get it, I was going to ask about that
[12:40] <RikMills> santa_: ack on breeze-icons
[12:40] <RikMills> I will have to open a ticket with LP admins to get this looked at
[12:40] <santa_> have you tried the new fw 5.113 package on riscv, does it fail in the same way?
[12:41] <RikMills> santa_: not yet. I will try in the next few days when I can free up a PPA
[12:42] <RikMills> or I gues I could pathc in the the 5.113.0 changes to a 5.112.0 build
[12:42] <RikMills> *patch
[12:43] <santa_> sure, but imagine the segfault comes from one of the deps
[12:43] <santa_> but it's a good start if you don't have a proper PPA available yet, so please go ahead and experiment
[12:45] <RikMills> ci-train PPAs cannot be created now since bileto seems dead. but there are dozens on existing PPAs that the creators don't look to be using. so what I need to do is find one that I am sure I can steal ;)
[12:45] <RikMills> s/steal/re-purpose/
[12:46] <RikMills> santa_: and yes, rebuilding the fw stack is the best test
[12:46] <santa_> hahah
[12:46] <santa_> ok
[12:48] <RikMills> hopefully will get to that by the end of the week
[12:50] <santa_> so the change in the buildds was:
[12:50] <santa_> qemu buildds -> non-qemu buildds
[12:50] <santa_> ?
[12:50] <RikMills> looks that way
[12:51] <RikMills> I recall seeing something about them getting real boards etc a while back
[12:53] <RikMills> idea is to get riscv64 towards a real release architecture
[12:54] <RikMills> if you are going to do that, then you can't acre flavours who use KDE things
[12:55] <RikMills> s/acre/screw
[12:55] <RikMills> sigh
[12:57] <santa_> ack, I have seen now all the #launchpad messages
[12:57] <santa_> in case the issue persists, things interesting in case we request help from KDE fellows
[12:58] <santa_> - confirm if the change in the buildds is non-qemu -> quemu
[12:58] <santa_> - a shell in a riscv server where someone can reproduce the issue, rebuild and try to fix
[13:01] <RikMills> indeed
[13:23] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 so far so good upgraded fw 5.113 (re @IrcsomeBot: <santa_> RikMills: fw 5.113 completed, at the moment, I don't plan to change more things in the packaging)
[15:59] <santa_> ack, thanks for testing


[01:13] <fta> hm, i've lost subpixel with the new cairo
[09:19] <XioNoX> Hi !
[09:34] <asac> hi XioNoX
[09:35] <XioNoX> asac, I've just add the license block
[09:35] <asac> good ... everywhere?
[09:35] <asac> e.g. on all your branches?
[09:37] <XioNoX> not the 3rd
[09:41] <asac> fta: oh. dholbach voted for you ;) ... nice
[09:41] <asac> XioNoX:  ;)
[09:41] <asac> all good are three ;)
[09:41] <XioNoX> ok, nice
[10:01] <XioNoX> asac, What is the "awsome" think you told me yesterday ?
[10:02] <asac> XioNoX: hehe ;)
[10:04] <asac> XioNoX: what i want is a the application pane ... but just filtered by known plugin mime-types
[10:04] <XioNoX> do you think I'll have time ?
[10:05] <XioNoX> and what is the application pane ?
[10:07] <asac> XioNoX: preferences -> applications
[10:07] <asac> XioNoX: thats basically what we want to manage plugin mime-types
[10:08] <XioNoX> so I work in firefox code ?
[10:08] <asac> XioNoX: no
[10:08] <XioNoX> ubufox ?
[10:08] <asac> XioNoX: yes. for now
[10:09] <asac> XioNoX: i think all what we do for the altplugins things is kind of a prototype to show upstream that managing multiple alternatives can be nicely done
[10:09] <XioNoX> ok
[10:10] <asac> XioNoX: what we want is a new menu item in the right row: "Use other plugin ..."
[10:10] <asac> XioNoX: you think you can add that?
[10:10] <asac> try to overlay it i'd say
[10:12] <XioNoX> I don't understand :)
[10:12] <asac> XioNoX:  have you found that pane?
[10:13] <XioNoX> yes
[10:13] <asac> on the left there  are mime-types (e.g. shockwave flash)
[10:13] <asac> on the right there are options
[10:13] <asac> err "Action"
[10:13] <asac> XioNoX: got that?
[10:14] <XioNoX> yep
[10:14] <asac> XioNoX: ok ... in action there is a drop down menu?
[10:14] <XioNoX> yes
[10:14] <asac> for now we want "Use other plugin ..." there
[10:15] <asac> which triggers our plugin finder wizard with the proper mime-type!
[10:16] <XioNoX> it is this part that I don't understand :D
[10:17] <XioNoX> a new "action" element called "Use other plugin" ?
[10:17] <asac> yes
[10:17] <XioNoX> haaa
[10:17] <XioNoX> but nobody goes in this tab
[10:18] <asac> XioNoX: true
[10:18] <asac> XioNoX: however,
[10:19] <asac> the idea is to use the same UI in the addons manager ... just that it doesnt use the gnome-mime database, but the mime-types currently provided by plugins
[10:19] <asac> XioNoX: if you think thats too much we can also improve the "current" plugin finder wizard
[10:21] <XioNoX> I think it is a lot of work for a little thing, but I can be wrong
[10:22] <XioNoX> what do yo have in mind by "improve the "current" plugin finder wizard" ?
[10:24] <asac> XioNoX: only display plugins that are not currently used
[10:27] <asac> XioNoX: we also need to take care that if you install gnash after flahsplugin-nonfree that you will use gnash
[10:27] <asac> if you then install flashplugin-nonfree again, you want that to be used
[10:27] <asac> "install" select in alternative plugin finder
[10:27] <asac> "install" == select in alternative plugin finder
[10:28] <XioNoX> when you install flahsplugin-nonfree from repos, gnash is removed, etc...
[10:28] <asac> XioNoX: no its not
[10:28] <asac> XioNoX: currently we maintain alternatives ... but that is not really required imo
[10:28] <asac> well
[10:29] <asac> for global alternatives might be ok. but what we probably want to do here is to put the a link into the profile directory
[10:29] <asac> so the user can switch between installed alternatives
[10:30] <asac> but in the end we lack mozilla features in order to do it in a perfect fashion
[10:30] <XioNoX> i agree
[10:31] <asac> e.g. mozilla doesnt allow you to select individual plugins by individual mime-types
[10:31] <XioNoX> ok
[10:31] <asac> so we need to be innovative ;)
[10:32] <XioNoX> so first, filter plugins in the richlist ?
[10:32] <XioNoX> to show only installed plugins
[10:33] <XioNoX> err, non installd plugins
[10:33] <asac> XioNoX: we have a rich list?
[10:34] <asac> XioNoX: if you want to go for the application panel, yes.
[10:34] <XioNoX> not rich
[10:34] <XioNoX> radiolist
[10:34] <asac> yeah
[10:39] <XioNoX> I get a new version of ubufox ?
[10:39] <XioNoX> or I work on an existing one ?
[10:40] <asac> XioNoX: i think it belongs in the altplugins branch
[10:40] <XioNoX> ok
[10:41] <asac> XioNoX: what you can do is to check whether /usr/lib/<packagename> ... exists
[10:41] <asac> that is a bad hack ... but it probably gives you a quite accurate idea whether the package is installed or not
[10:41] <XioNoX> but this works only for packages :(
[10:41] <XioNoX> not for user-scale install
[10:45] <asac> radiolist, yes.
[10:46] <asac> XioNoX: well. for user based install we could try what i sadi ... e.g. create the proper link
[10:53] <XioNoX> it is a bad hack, no ?
[10:53] <XioNoX> it is like the plugin is installed twice, no ?
[10:55] <asac> no ... i think profile plugins will win
[10:55] <asac> but not sure
[10:56] <XioNoX> if it is like extentions, profile win
[10:58] <asac> not 100% sure ... i think plugins are rather stupid
[10:58] <asac> whatever is scanned first and matches mime-type wins
[10:58] <asac> so profile probably will win
[10:58] <XioNoX> and we can't use the about:plugin stuff ?
[10:59] <asac> fopr what?
[10:59] <XioNoX> to know what plugin is used
[10:59] <XioNoX> for wich mimetype
[10:59] <asac> XioNoX: you can iterate all plugins
[11:00] <asac> XioNoX: however, its hard to match what package each plugin is mapped to
[11:00] <XioNoX> and about:plugins don't make différence between pakages and profD plugins
[11:00] <asac> XioNoX: well ... we can find the install path
[11:01] <asac> pluginreg.dat
[11:01] <XioNoX> because it will be the same thing if we make links in te user dir
[11:01] <asac> in the profile
[11:01] <asac> not sure if it follows links
[11:01] <asac> if it does it becomes even trickier
[11:02] <XioNoX> using pluginreg should be easier, no ?
[11:03] <asac> XioNoX: well ... that info you can get through the navigator object
[11:03] <asac> in javascript
[11:03] <XioNoX> ?
[11:04] <XioNoX> there are mimetype, plugin name, and file location
[11:11] <asac> yes
[11:13] <asac> XioNoX: ok. how about this:
[11:13] <asac> we add the ability to set a pref modules.plugins.mimetypes.application/pdf = PATHTOPLUGOm
[11:13] <asac> to firefox core
[11:14] <asac> we add the ability to set a pref modules.plugins.mimetypes.application/pdf = PATH/TO/PLUGIN
[11:14] <asac> e.g. pref("modules.plugins.mimetypes.application/shockwave-flash", PATH/TO/PLUGIN)
[11:15] <asac> XioNoX: i guess that would be helpful right?
[11:16] <XioNoX> it wil be the same as the one present in the pluginreg.dat, no ?
[11:16] <XioNoX> and who will set this pref ?
[11:16] <asac> XioNoX: our wizard will set that pref
[11:16] <asac> XioNoX: (or the user manually if he wants)
[11:17] <asac> XioNoX: and yes: the path would be the one in pluginreg.dat
[11:17] <XioNoX> so why using an intermediate pref ?
[11:17] <asac> XioNoX: why? because the pluginreg.dat format doesnt know anything about preference
[11:17] <XioNoX> why we don't just ask pluginreg.dat when needed ?
[11:18] <asac> and there is no write-access interface available anyway
[11:18] <asac> XioNoX: pluginreg.dat has no information about preference when there are multiple plugins for the same mimie-type
[11:18] <XioNoX> but we don't have to modify it, just get values
[11:18] <asac> XioNoX: which value?
[11:18] <asac> there is no mean to express user-preference in pluginreg.dat
[11:19] <asac> thuse we would need to extend that format ... which i dont want -> thus the pref
[11:19] <XioNoX> ha ok
[11:19] <asac> and the reason why i dont want to extend that format is that there is no API to manage plugin registry at all
[11:19] <asac> so we would have to invent even more
[11:20] <XioNoX> you want that if there are many plugin for the same mimetype installed
[11:20] <XioNoX> the user can chose
[11:20] <asac> yes
[11:20] <asac> right
[11:20] <asac> the final idea is still to have the drop down box from prefernec -> applications where the user can switch easily when there are already multiple installed
[11:20] <XioNoX> and not if there are 1 installed and you install an alternative it remove the old one
[11:20] <asac> or install new ones thjrough "get other plugins ..."
[11:20] <asac> XioNoX: right
[11:21] <asac> XioNoX: doing that will cover the user install case i hope
[11:21] <asac> XioNoX: only thing that is tricky is to figure which path the "just-installed" plugin has
[11:21] <asac> for packages that should be more or less easy
[11:21] <asac> for .xpi installs that can be harder, but we will figure something i am sure ;)
[11:22] <asac> XioNoX: i can write the firefox core changes to honour such preferences
[11:22] <asac> you can write the logic that allows users to switch to other plugins ;)
[11:23] <XioNoX> this seam to be a big project
[11:23] <XioNoX> and there are some hope that this will be included upstream ?
[11:23] <asac> XioNoX: its not a big project
[11:24] <asac> XioNoX: the two parts are managable
[11:24] <XioNoX> ok
[11:24] <asac> XioNoX: if you use the current plugin finder wizard at least
[11:24] <asac> implementing it the applications panel way is more work
[11:24] <asac> and is what i suggested in the upstrewam bug
[11:24] <XioNoX> ok
[11:25] <asac> so whether this can land, depends on how well we make it work for us
[11:25] <asac> imo
[11:25] <asac> once the people see that it works, there is no real way to refuse to have the proper solution imo
[11:26] <asac> XioNoX: i think the clean solution would be to split the features apart:
[11:26] <asac> 1. choose which of the installed plugins to use
[11:26] <asac> 2. install more plugins -> which would end in a dialog for 1.
[11:28] <asac> makes sense XioNoX ?
[11:28] <XioNoX> when we clic on "Use other plugin" ?
[11:28] <XioNoX> or were ?
[11:28] <asac> fta: there? what new liferea is that?
[11:29] <XioNoX> asac, going to eat
[11:29] <asac> XioNoX: ok
[11:29] <XioNoX> see you
[11:32]  * gnomefreak hopes new gnome gives me back system bell
[11:45] <asac> gnomefreak: unlikely ;)
[12:19] <XioNoX> back
[12:21] <asac> XioNoX: ok. i think i have a first patch for the thing
[12:21] <XioNoX> already ?
[12:21] <asac> XioNoX: however, you probably need to spin your own xulrunner
[12:21] <asac> XioNoX: for the "select plugin by mime-type" ...yes.
[12:21] <asac> err
[12:21] <asac> for the preference things
[12:21] <XioNoX> spin your own xulrunner ?
[12:22] <asac> XioNoX: let me push it ;)
[12:22] <XioNoX> ok
[12:24] <asac> XioNoX: mkdir myxul; cd myxul; bzr branch lp:~mozillateam/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.head; cd ..; mkdir tarballs; cd tarballs; wget http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16695860/xulrunner-1.9_<IP_ADDRESS>%7Ecvs20080807t1327%2Bnobinonly.orig.tar.gz; cd ../xulrunner-1*/; sudo apt-get build-dep xulrunner-1.9; sudo apt-get install bzr-builddeb; sudo apt-get install built-essentials; edit debian/patches/series (enable the last patch here); bzr bd --merge --dont-
[12:24] <asac> err
[12:24] <asac> XioNoX: mkdir myxul; cd myxul; bzr branch lp:~mozillateam/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.head; mkdir tarballs; cd tarballs; wget http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16695860/xulrunner-1.9_<IP_ADDRESS>%7Ecvs20080807t1327%2Bnobinonly.orig.tar.gz; cd ../xulrunner-1*/; sudo apt-get build-dep xulrunner-1.9; sudo apt-get install bzr-builddeb; sudo apt-get install built-essentials; edit debian/patches/series (enable the last patch here); bzr bd --merge --dont-purge -
[12:24] <asac> thats  ;)
[12:24] <XioNoX> and what does it wo ?
[12:25] <asac> it builts the latest xulrunner-1.9 from our packaging branch ;)
[12:25] <asac> to do that it branches the packaging branch, gets the tarball
[12:25] <asac> installs the build-dependencies
[12:25] <asac> and bzr-builddeb
[12:25] <asac> and then you edit debian/patches/series to enable the my patch
[12:25] <asac> and build using the "bzr bd ..." command
[12:25] <asac> ;)
[12:25] <asac> all that is done in a directory called myxul ;)
[12:28] <asac> XioNoX: that isnt tested yet ... at best start with UI for selecting a plugin ;)
[12:28] <asac> applying that to the backend will be as easy as setting a pref ;)
[12:29] <XioNoX> ok
[12:29] <XioNoX> myxul ahve to be in the bzr working folder (ubufox plugin) or not
[12:29] <XioNoX> ?
[12:29] <asac> XioNoX: no ... my description was based on that you dont have anything
[12:29] <asac> ;)
[12:30] <asac> if you already have the xulrunner-1.9.head branch on your disk you can start with getting the tarball
[12:30] <XioNoX> ha ok
[12:30] <XioNoX> thx
[12:30] <asac> XioNoX: anyway. chances are 50% that this works out of box. so better start implementing the "select plugin for mimetype" dialog
[12:31] <asac> XioNoX: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/DOM:window.navigator.plugins
[12:31] <asac> thats how you can access installed plugins (i hope)
[12:31] <asac> well ... i should work (looked at the doc)
[12:31] <asac> great
[12:32] <XioNoX> first i'm trying the xulrunner commands
[12:32] <asac> so what we want is a dialog that allows you to switch to another installed plugin that serves the mime-type
[12:33] <asac> XioNoX: sure. the built will take 20-45 minutes anyway ;)=
[12:34] <XioNoX> E: Les dépendances de compilation pour xulrunner-1.9 ne peuvent pas être satisfaites.
[12:34] <XioNoX> yeah, french :)
[12:35] <XioNoX> can't satisfy build deps for xulrunner...
[12:35] <asac> XioNoX: you forgot to run the apt-get commands
[12:35] <asac> at least the build-dep one
[12:35] <asac> ;)
[12:35] <XioNoX> sudo apt-get build-dep xulrunner-1.9
[12:35] <asac> if you did, let me know what dependency is missing
[12:35] <XioNoX> tell me this
[12:35] <XioNoX> ho
[12:36] <XioNoX> i don't know it just say that it can't
[12:36] <XioNoX> i don't know, it just say that it can't
[12:37] <asac> XioNoX: you need deb-src lines in your sources.list
[12:37] <asac> (apt)
[12:37] <XioNoX> I have them
[12:37] <asac> well. it would work then
[12:38] <XioNoX> here is the problem
[12:41] <asac> XioNoX: ?
[12:41] <asac> you just need to install the missing dependencies
[12:41] <asac> thats all
[12:42] <asac> if build-dep is broken for you do it manually ... but it works for everyone ;)
[12:46] <XioNoX> ok, the probleme come from the package python2.5...
[12:51] <asac> XioNoX: whats the problem?
[12:53] <XioNoX> I have python2.5....ubuntu5 and python2.5-dev need python2.5....ubuntu4.1 only
[12:53] <XioNoX> I've installed python2.5....ubuntu4.1 with dpkg, but now it is the pess in the pacakges
[12:53] <asac> XioNoX: dontgrade ;)
[12:53] <asac> downgrade  i mean
[12:53] <asac> is that a problem?
[12:54] <XioNoX> yes, but i can't
[12:54] <XioNoX> if i downgrade it wan't to remove the half of my system
[12:55] <asac> XioNoX: where did you get the python debs from?
[12:55] <XioNoX> ok fix
[12:55] <asac> good
[12:55] <XioNoX> I don't know
[12:55] <XioNoX> reps
[12:55] <XioNoX> repos
[12:56] <XioNoX> broken pakage manager have to be improved
[12:57] <XioNoX> build running
[12:59] <XioNoX> I'll see of it is true that 64bits compile faster
[13:03] <rbu> asac: morning! say, which system settings plugin do you use for NM in ubuntu then?
[13:05] <asac> rbu: in ubuntu i havent enabled ifupdown yet.
[13:05] <asac> rbu: tonight i made a break through though ;) ... so in the near future Ill enable it ;)
[13:06] <asac> so hopefully we will have: --plugins=ifupdown,keyfile
[13:07] <rbu> asac: ifupdown would store the settings in normal debian settings files?
[13:07] <asac> rbu: ifupdown is just legacy support ... i currently dont feel to implement a read/write approach. so for now its read-only
[13:08] <asac> keyfile would be used for write support
[13:08] <asac> i hope in this order it will automagically work ;)
[13:09] <rbu> asac: ah, so it would parse that /etc/network/interfaces file?
[13:09] <asac> rbu: yes
[13:09] <asac> rbu: when time permits i will also add support for wpa_supplicant.conf
[13:09] <rbu> asac: is mbiebl going with the same thing, or are you guys not talking to each other :-)
[13:09] <asac> but maybe to a separate read-only plugin
[13:10] <asac> rbu: mbiebl is waiting for my implementation iirc
[13:10] <asac> rbu: the idea is that it gets committed upstream asap
[13:10] <asac> i am overdue to deliver that
[13:10] <rbu> asac: lazy !$!§$%
[13:10] <rbu>  :-)
[13:10] <asac> rbu: well ... its a moving target
[13:10] <rbu> asac: yeah, but wpa_supplicant.conf would be cool :-)
[13:10] <asac> the system-settings thing was broken for quite some time (for connections that required secret)
[13:11] <asac> rbu: thats simple ... wpa_supplicant.conf alone is just to parse the setting and creating NMConnections with those settings
[13:11] <asac> (not bound to a mac address)
[13:12] <asac> not yet sure where to configure which setting to use. problem is that ifupdown also would need wpa_supplicant.conf imo. but thats something i have to figure out elsewhere
[13:12] <asac> and a wpasupplicant top-level plugin makes sense ;)
[13:13] <rbu> asac: well, you're in that swamp a lot deeper than me, i've just learned about what nm-settings is today, so ... way to go for me
[13:13] <asac> rbu: hehe ;)
[13:14] <asac> rbu: learning by doing. i am still learning as well ;) .... but if you want to help, you could probably implement a wpa_supplicant.conf parser
[13:14] <asac> (which would be independent from nm-settings)
[13:14] <asac> (and it would definitly speed this feature up)
[13:15]  * gnomefreak ran into issues ill be back when handled
[13:20] <XioNoX> asac, compillation done
[13:21] <asac> XioNoX: hehe ;)
[13:21] <asac> XioNoX: ok ... install the packages and see if firefox still works ;)
[13:22] <asac> XioNoX: then see if you get a crash when using any plugin
[13:22] <asac> then see if you can force gnash or something even though flashplugin-nonfree would be used by default
[13:22] <asac> XioNoX: but well :) ... at best just go and implement the dialog ;) ... that will be tricky enough. I will take care that the "force" works
[13:38] <XioNoX> asac, I was on tel
[13:48] <XioNoX> xulrunner works well ;)
[13:54] <fta> can anyone using my ppa confirm that lcd filtering is broken (or not) with my cairo 1.7.4 ?
[14:00] <asac> XioNoX: how does it work well?
[14:00] <asac> XioNoX: did you try to switch plugins?
[14:00] <asac> e.g. by setting manually the pref?`
[14:01] <asac> fta: i can try after lunch break
[14:01] <asac> (which i should really do now ;))
[14:01] <XioNoX> we can do that ?
[14:01] <asac> XioNoX: yes. thats what i added
[14:01] <asac> ;)
[14:01] <asac> XioNoX: read the patch for instructions
[14:01] <asac> XioNoX: i documented it on top
[14:01] <XioNoX> ok
[14:02] <asac> XioNoX: you can only switch between plugins that are in pluginreg.dat
[14:02] <XioNoX> ok
[14:02] <asac> so maybe you need to create a link to libgnashplugin.so in your profiles plugins/ directory
[14:02] <asac> (given that you use the nonfree thing by default on system)
[14:38] <fta> asac, no news of pitti ?
[14:39] <asac> fta: if he doesnt talk on #-devel he is probably on holiday
[14:39] <fta> ok
[14:45] <XioNoX> asac, I don't see any new plugin in the applications tab
[14:46] <XioNoX> no new choice for flash
[14:47] <asac> XioNoX: why would that happen
[14:47] <asac> there is no code for that at all
[14:47] <XioNoX> what does your code ?
[14:47] <asac> XioNoX: read the patch
[14:47] <asac> there is documentation
[14:48] <XioNoX> good idea :)
[15:00] <fta> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2008/07/29/Google-and-MPL
[15:01] <fta> (not new, i know. i'm still catching up with my 1000+ unread articles)
[15:01] <fta> asac, btw, did you see my xul1.9 issue with liferea yesterday ?
 checking for XulRunner 1.9+ support... checking for XULRUNNER... yes
 Fatal: XulRunner enabled, but XULRUNNER_HOME is empty!
 make: *** [config.status] Error 1
 asac, ^^ that's the new liferea
 asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/38620/
[15:11] <fta> http://clarkbw.net/designs/dialog-invasion/dialog_invasion.ogg
[15:33] <fta> mozilla bug 408925
[16:00] <jtv> asac: ping
[16:04] <asac> pong
[16:05] <asac> fta: i did see the xul issue ... i asked you where you gto that new liferea from ;)
[16:05] <fta> upstream
[16:05] <asac> fta: what is XULRUNNER_HOME used for?
[16:05] <asac> -rpath?
[16:05] <asac> if so, just wipe it
[16:05] <fta> no idea
[16:05] <fta> i want this bug 203157 fixed
[16:06] <asac> fta: search the Makefiles for XULRUNNER_HOME usage ... i guess its again a -rpath thing which means that they are stupid ;)
[16:06] <asac> oh dear ... the rtl8187 driver just sucks
[16:07] <asac> ok that doesnt make any sense
[16:07]  * asac reboots to latest kernel again
[16:09] <fta> ./debian/patches/xulrunner-1.9:         gtk_moz_embed_set_comp_path(XULRUNNER_HOME);
[16:11] <asac> fta: yeah thats stupid
[16:11] <asac> fta: they can use the GRE_PATH they found
[16:11] <asac> or just leave that lone (if they use push_startup
[16:11] <asac> )
[16:12] <XioNoX> asac, how can I interract with the preferences dialog ?
[16:12] <fta> ./src/mozilla/Makefile.am:liblihtmlx_la_CFLAGS = $(XULRUNNER_CFLAGS) $(PACKAGE_CFLAGS)  -DXULRUNNER_HOME=\""$(XULRUNNER_HOME)\""
[16:13] <asac> XioNoX: why do you want that?
[16:14] <asac> fta: yes, drop that define ... and #ifdef XULRUNNER_HOME the set_comp_path above
[16:14] <fta> it's already in that patch
[16:14] <fta> so basically, it's not used
[16:15] <XioNoX> asac, I don't really know how to start..
[16:17] <XioNoX> I have to modify the list of options in the application tab for some plugins (like flash, etc...)
[16:17] <XioNoX> no ?
[16:22] <jtv> Hey asac
[16:37] <fta> E: stream.c: Assertion 'pa_atomic_load(&(s)->_ref) >= 1' failed at pulse/stream.c:948, function pa_stream_writable_size(). Aborting.
[16:37] <fta> Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted.
[16:37] <fta> crimsun, ^^
[16:42] <asac> XioNoX: I'd suggest to overlay the element
[16:43] <XioNoX> but I have no clue to find it in the firefox sources
[16:44] <asac> XioNoX: use dom inspector
[16:45] <XioNoX> how ?
[16:45] <XioNoX> ok find
[16:52] <fta> asac, could you please test cairo ?
[16:58] <XioNoX> asac, I'll continue from home
[17:00] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/38830/
[17:00] <fta> too bad i can't retrace post-mortem
[17:02] <asac> fta: what shall i test?
[17:02] <fta> lcd filter
[17:02] <fta> subpixel blabla
[17:02] <asac> not sure how that is testable
[17:02] <asac> whats the problem that gets fixed?
[17:02] <asac> e.g. how can i recognize that
[17:03] <fta> just a shift for an ubuntu patch to upstream support. for me, it regressed
[17:03] <asac> fta: how?`
[17:03] <fta> everything looks different once restarted
[17:03] <asac> libcairo - 1.5.4-0ubuntu1~fta3  ?
[17:03] <fta> no
[17:03] <fta> 1.7.4
[17:04]  * asac restarts X
[17:07] <fta>   samarium (xen-i386)  	 Building i386 build of xulrunner-1.9 1.9+nobinonly-0ubuntu2~gutsy0~jjv in ubuntu gutsy RELEASE [gnomefreak]
[17:07] <fta> oh, he's not here
[17:08] <asac> fta: i think everything looks better
[17:08] <asac> but i am using "best shapes" in font appearence dialog
[17:08] <fta> hm
[17:08] <asac> so the difference isnt that bad
[17:09] <asac> smoothing (LCD) always looked bad for me
[17:10] <asac> does that make a difference for you?
[17:12] <fta> i'm using lcd
[17:21] <asac> fta: lcd regressed a bit. but i am not 100% sure.
[17:21] <asac> hard to fix the difference for my eyes
[17:21] <asac> i think some lines are not of the same width with 1.7.4
[17:21] <asac> while they are more accurate in 1.6.4
[17:22] <asac> but best shapes is better in any case ;)
[17:22]  * asac reverts to that
[17:24] <fta> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/lcd.png
[17:24] <fta> i haven't restarted panel & chat yet, but gedit is fresh
[17:24] <fta> xchat
[17:26] <asac> i think my eyes are not made for fonts. i dont see any difference :(
[17:26] <fta> zoom in
[17:27] <fta> x4 or more
[17:27] <fta> compare "View"
[17:28] <asac> sorry. i think i see a difference, but thats due to the zoom i guess
[17:29] <asac> but as i said ... i saw some difference here too
[17:36] <fta> ok, sound for <video>/<audio> is as bad in 3.1 official nightlies as in my builds. i'm not crazy then.
[18:01] <fta> http://www.journaldugeek.com/files/2008/08/brando-zoom6x.jpg
[19:16] <francois_fon> 'soir
[19:17] <francois_fon> une personne a déjà eu un soucis (comme moi) pour ouvrir gmail sous firefox ?
[19:17] <sebner> francois_fon: english?
[19:17] <francois_fon> ok ooops
[19:17] <francois_fon> i try
[19:18] <francois_fon> i can't open gmail with firefox
[19:18] <francois_fon> it is not a problem from gmail
[19:18] <sebner> francois_fon: error?
[19:18] <francois_fon> i have delete cookies
[19:18] <francois_fon> no error
[19:18] <francois_fon> gmail is open
[19:18] <francois_fon> i note my login and password
[19:19] <francois_fon> and after gmail is working
[19:19] <francois_fon> but it never open
[19:19] <francois_fon> i can only open gmail "basic HTML as default view"
[19:20] <sebner> so you have a problem with the Javascript version?
[19:21] <francois_fon> hmm
[19:21] <francois_fon> http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capturepv3.png
[19:24] <sebner> francois_fon: I see. maybe someone else here can help you
[19:24] <francois_fon> i hope :)
[19:24] <francois_fon> i have test gmail with opera and no soucy
[19:24] <francois_fon> but opera is not open-source :/
[19:31] <francois_fon> remove firefox and install it again is a good idea ?
[19:42] <fta> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs
[19:45] <francois_fon> fta: thx, i look
[19:45] <fta> or try http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2
[19:47] <francois_fon> same problem
[19:48] <francois_fon> fta: it is a good idea if i remove firefox and install it again ?
[19:49] <fta> francois_fon, not if the issue is caused by one of your extensions/plugins, it will not change anything
[19:49] <fta> try with a new profile as described in the doc
[19:50] <francois_fon> ok thx
[21:33] <saivann> asac : ping
[21:37] <saivann> asac : In case you have time, I would absolutely need new thunderbird-locales to be uploaded to intrepid, since I'm about to release new 0.8 packages for lightning-extension-locales which will depends on new thunderbird-locales
[22:10] <ma10> i'm trying to debug a crash that looks xulrunner-related. bug 259533. but i need some help..
[22:26] <Jazzva> asac, I just read someone mentioned that nspluginwrapper 1.1.0 works for him. I'll see to package it after 23rd. Will we still have time to get it into intrepid (feature freeze is on 28th of August)
[22:38] <ma10> yuppp fixed!
[22:39] <ma10> fta, note that xulrunner-1.9 - <IP_ADDRESS>~cvs20080807t1327+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~fta1 fixes an ugly crash in the new azureus
[22:42] <fta> excellent
[22:42] <fta> Jazzva, the liferea in my ppa fixes the 100% cpu issue
[22:43] <Jazzva> fta, yay :)
[22:43] <Jazzva> pushing to intrepid? :)
[22:43] <ma10> now i can sleep :)
[22:43] <fta> I will look for a sponsor
[22:45] <Jazzva> good :)
[22:45] <Jazzva> fta, aren't you a MOTU now?
[22:45] <fta> not that i'm aware of
[22:45] <Jazzva> ah.. well, soon to be, right?
[22:45] <fta> who knows
[22:55] <ma10> fta, should i assign the bug to mozillateam so you remember to close it in the new release?
[22:55] <ma10> also, you could notify me before the release so i can confirm it fixed
[22:55] <fta> bug id ?
[22:55] <ma10> bug 259533
[22:57] <fta> hm
[23:07] <asac> Jazzva: right. thats fine
[23:08] <asac> ma10: all fine?
[23:08] <ma10> it doesn't crash.. later i'll test it on another system
[23:09] <asac> k
[23:10] <fta> i can't find which bug moz fixed for that crash. looks like luck to me
[23:11] <asac> saivann: thats fine. are you here tomorrow. then just ping me and we can upload the whole lot
[23:11] <fta> liferea has a warning: http://lintian.debian.org/tags/quilt-patch-with-non-standard-options.html
[23:12] <ma10> could be.. i searched for it and i came uo empty.. but mozilla bugtraker is a mess.
[23:12] <fta> patches have been "converted" from dpatch to quilt just by a rename :0
[23:12] <fta> asac, should I fix that or ignore ?
[23:12] <saivann> asac : Great, my sunbird-locales and lightning-extension-locales packages will be ready tomorrow and includes many changes to make them easy to maintain and to prevent current problems in intrepid with sunbird and lightning-extension
[23:13] <ma10> also, it's not reported for debian
[23:13] <asac> saivann: great.
[23:13] <asac> fta: i'd say as long as we merge from debian we should diverge more
[23:13] <asac> fta: maybe ping debian maintainer and provide him with fix to get this fixed
[23:13] <asac> s/we should/we shouldn't/
[23:14] <fta> usually i know, but you said debian is frozen for a long time...
[23:14] <asac> true
[23:14] <asac> but lintian isnt important imo
[23:15] <asac> if there is a new upstream release, we can bump, but fixing cosmetic issues like this should be done in debian
[23:15] <fta> this is a new release
[23:15] <asac> oh
[23:16] <asac> well. but since the issue existed in the version before the same reasoning would be valid imo
[23:16] <fta> 1.4.16b-0.1ubuntu1 -> 1.4.18-0ubuntu1
[23:16] <asac> yeah. just do the upgrade. dont care about fixing lintian things taht existed in 1.4.16b
[23:17] <asac> thats my pov
[23:17] <asac> http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
[23:17] <asac> more than 200 bugs to go
[23:17] <asac> so probably will take some time for debian lenny to get releasd
[23:27]  * asac off ... g'night
[23:32] <fta> Jazzva, bug 259578
[23:32] <fta> let's wait now
[23:32] <fta> Jazzva, being motu wouldn't have helped, it's in main
[23:52] <fta> http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2008/08/06/GRRRRRRR
[23:52] <fta> i agree with that.


[08:21] <julo_> hi
[08:23] <julo_> Will it be possible to install ubuntu-mobile on a regular intel PC or will it need to be a phone-like device ?
[08:25] <persia> julo_: You can install it on a regular PC, as long as you have the right hardware.
[08:25] <persia> It ought work on most x86, but no promised for anything other than A110 or Atom chips.
[08:26] <persia> Of course the interface might be a little odd, as most machines don't have a touchscreen, or the target resolution.
[08:26] <julo_> persia: well, I'm thinking of an X86 PC-like device with a compact flash IDE driver and a 7 inches touch-screen.
[08:28] <persia> julo_: OK.  What's the "-like" part of that?
[08:30] <julo_> persia: what I mean is that, apart from the odd screen, it is a PC. It just doesn't *look* like a PC.
[08:30] <julo_> persia: oh, and the fact that it has a compact-flash IDE drive instead of a regular IDE hard drive.
[08:34] <persia> julo_: Ah.  I was mostly asking about how "x86-like" it was.  Which processor?
[08:39] <julo_> persia: it's an AMD Geode
[08:42] <persia> julo_: Hmm.  I've not heard of anyone using an lpia install on a Geode.  Please let us know if it works.
[08:44] <julo_> OK, I'll do
[08:45] <persia> julo_: Note that there are some hacks involved.  Installing i386 (which is known to work on a Geode) may not generate the right environment.  For best results, try an install boot off the image on cdimages.ubuntu.com
[17:22] <HappyCamp> tonyespy: The Pepperpad is back :)  http://aving.net/usa/news/default.asp?mode=read&c_num=89608&C_Code=01&SP_Num=175&mn_name=exhi
[17:24] <tonyespy> HappyCamp: yea, don't think they're shipping it yet... and especially don't know what flavor or Linux; it for sure isn't the old Pepper Java code-base!
[17:24] <tonyespy> HappyCamp: you in MA now?
[17:24] <HappyCamp> I am, out here in Westford
[17:25] <HappyCamp> How was Easter Europe?
[17:25] <HappyCamp> s/Easter/Eastern/
[17:25] <tonyespy> HappyCamp: fun
[17:26] <tonyespy> HappyCamp: we should do lunch sometime: http://www.flatbreadcompany.com/2007Bedford.htm
[17:26] <tonyespy> HappyCamp: maybe next week sometime?
[17:26] <HappyCamp> Sounds good.  I have a conference to go to this week in Boston.
[17:27] <HappyCamp> So next week would be great :)
[17:27] <tonyespy> HappyCamp: cool, I'll ping you early next week and we can figure out when...  gotta run.
[17:27] <HappyCamp> Sounds good.  Later.
[17:45] <lool> HappyCamp: You're working from RedHat or for RedHat? :)
[17:45] <lool> or both?
[17:46] <lool> HappyCamp: The pizza place Tony mentionned rocks BTW
[17:47] <amitk_> it does look good, we should do a dinner there on this trip
[17:48] <lool> amitk_: it's all organic food, bread, sauces, condiments etc.
[17:48] <HappyCamp> lool: At :)
[17:48] <HappyCamp> For Intel
[17:48] <HappyCamp> Now I'm looking forward to pizza :)
[18:31] <trip_work> what is UME doing for bluetooth?
[18:31] <trip_work> will there be handsfree by default?
[19:58] <lool> inuka_: Not sure you got my private msg; I didn't get your answer, could be that you're not registered on freenode?
[19:59] <lool> inuka_: nickserv says you didn't register until two days ago, so i'd guess this might explain why I didn't get your answer


[13:22] <cjohnston> greg-g: St. Lucia has great diving
[14:46] <mhall119> a little humor for everyone's Sunday afternoon: http://mhall119.com/2011/10/if-linux-was-a-car-haters-edition/
[14:53] <pangolin> mhall119: great post :)
[15:37] <nigelb> mhall119: <3
[15:37] <nigelb> Great post!
[15:42] <mhall119> thanks
[16:49] <greg-g> cjohnston: ah, awesome.
[16:57] <nigelb> greg-g!
[16:57] <nigelb> How are ya?
[16:58] <greg-g> nigelb! I'm good :)
[16:59] <nigelb> greg-g: How's California treatin' ya?
[17:02] <greg-g> nigelb: good good. it is another beautiful day today :)
[17:03] <greg-g> this place might help me get back into running more regularly :)
[17:04] <nigelb> greg-g: Met pleia2 and other .ca gang?
[17:04] <nigelb> s/.ca/.us.ca/g
[17:05] <greg-g> yeah, me up with pleia2 and some new -us-ca people I didn't know about at the release party
[17:05] <greg-g> s/me/met/
[17:05] <nigelb> btw, paultag is in MV!
[17:06] <nigelb> For a few days or so I think, the GSoC mentors summit.
[17:06] <greg-g> yeah, saw that. My office is down in MV, I should email him
[17:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[17:08] <nigelb> Ah, neat.
[17:08] <nigelb> czajkowski: Liked the rugby ending? :)
[17:08] <czajkowski> well was ok
[17:08] <czajkowski> i like nz winning
[17:08] <nigelb> :)
[17:09] <czajkowski> over the others that were left
[17:09] <nigelb> How far did England go?
[17:36] <bkerensa> so just a FYI
[17:37] <bkerensa> the first UEFI boot laptops are rolling out
[17:37] <bkerensa> a member of our LoCo's relative bought a HP the other day and it reject Ubuntu
[17:37] <bkerensa> wont let grub be installed
[17:41] <popey> which model?
[17:41] <AlanBell> ooh
[17:41] <AlanBell> any option in the bios to turn it off?
[17:41] <popey> and how are you sure it's UEFI and not just the 'its got 4 primary partitions' issue?
[17:42] <AlanBell> and will they send it back as defective?
[17:42] <popey> I would be surprised if this is secure boot given the management of keys isnt even settled yet
[17:45] <czajkowski> nigelb: it got out of the pool stage http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/standings/index.html
[17:45] <nigelb> czajkowski: ah
[17:46] <czajkowski> so to knock outs after that
[17:58] <bkerensa> popey: Let me grab it from my e-mail
[17:59] <bkerensa> popey: "My friend recently got an HP s5-1110 with Win 7 installed. UEFI has prevented the installation of GRUB on this machine. I could find no way in the BIOS to disable the feature and so far, as I work my way up the HP tech support ladder, I have found no HP techs who have a clue what I'm talking about."
[17:59]  * bkerensa is going to be blogging about it soon... Reaching out to HP's PR people to see if they have comment
[18:01] <czajkowski> bkerensa: I'm now following aqs advice and will only buy from a listed machine if possible http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/HP
[18:01] <czajkowski> but that does seem to differ from country to country
[18:02] <bkerensa> czajkowski: And what happens when those machines get sold out over time and are replaced with UEFI boot machines?
[18:02] <bkerensa> :_)
[18:02] <bkerensa> thats where the problem lies
[18:04] <czajkowski> bkerensa: well for me right now, I'm looking at a new machine possibly post december when i get back working as current old lappy is kinda on a death bed with battery life and I've replaced it twice.
[18:04] <czajkowski> i will if i can buy a certifed lts machine and yes if i chose to upgrade it, it wont be covered as they are tested to lts, but i think it's a nice standard to see and you can view the list to give you an idea of what is or isn't compatable
[23:50] <akgraner> So I am prepping for my UDS interviews - Are there any questions you all want me to ask - I'm interviewing Linaro and Canonical people so email me your questions if I use them I'll attribute them to you...
[23:51] <akgraner> (I'll blog about it tomorrow)  but thought I'd ask you all too
[23:52] <akgraner> jcasto  - I already added dpm and dholbach as well as jono's questions to my spreadsheet, but I can't for the life of me narrow down what I want to talk to you about...if you have thoughts please add them to the spreadsheet (yeah yeah  - I know I have a thing for spreadsheets)