[11:57] <lool> Hey
[11:59]  * persia peers about
[12:00] <davidm> Hello
[12:00] <davidm> #startmeeting
[12:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:00. The chair is davidm.
[12:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:01] <davidm> First meeting we have had in 2 weeks, Travel, FOSSCamp and UDS blocked the last two.
[12:01] <davidm> lool, StevenK persia ogra you about?
[12:02] <lool> (I think the Current meeting link is broken)
[12:02]  * StevenK is mostly here
[12:02] <lool> ogra is VAC
[12:02] <lool> StevenK: at the party?  :)
[12:02] <StevenK> lool: I'm home, but a large amount of beer was drunk
[12:02] <StevenK> (By me)
[12:02]  * persia waves
[12:03] <davidm> lool, it is go in by date and page is there.
[12:03] <lool> davidm: Yeah, got it
[12:03] <lool> davidm: Just wanted to raise the current meeting link which I'm not sure how t ofix
[12:04] <lool> There are a couple of things I'd like to discuss but I didn't write in the agenda
[12:05] <lool> Basically boils down to deliverables for alphas and prioritization of our tasks
[12:05] <davidm> That is good, menu is now fixed
[12:05] <lool> Thanks!
[12:05] <davidm> Just reload it.
[12:06] <davidm> Did we have any old business that was not UDS related?  I don't think so.
[12:06] <lool> Don't think so either
[12:07] <lool> actually we had an alpha 1 item
[12:07] <lool> Which was a good thing to raise by persia
[12:07] <persia> Which was that?
[12:07] <lool> persia: You raised before UDS the topic of alpha 1 testing
[12:08] <persia> Oh :)  That's obsolete.
[12:08] <lool> And I think it was an excellent point; what I'd like to bring up today is... alpha 2 and 3 :)
[12:08] <persia> We ought do some alpha 2 testing, but given the expected seed changes, I'm not expecting us to have something installable until Alpha 3.
[12:08] <davidm> Apparently ogra got the UMPC image built and some testing last night
[12:09] <StevenK> Yes.
[12:09] <StevenK> This makes me unhappy.
[12:09] <lool> davidm: [topic] alpha 2 and 3 images perhaps?
[12:09] <StevenK> I was hoping to ignore UMPC until we got the new one building
[12:09] <StevenK> Now I have work to undo
[12:09] <lool> StevenK: I think we will rename it back, wont we?
[12:09] <davidm> [topic]  alpha 2 and 3 images
[12:09] <MootBot> New Topic:   alpha 2 and 3 images
[12:10] <StevenK> lool: Rename it back?
[12:10] <lool> StevenK: My understanding is that we'd change umpc to focus on UNR apps incrementally
[12:10] <lool> StevenK: Rename to netbook
[12:10] <davidm> We still don't have ARM far enough to make images
[12:10] <StevenK> We don't have a livefs builder yet
[12:11] <lool> davidm: That's actually a question I had; for what devices should we be aiming ARM images at?  I think we want to start with desktop ASAP, but we need working kernels
[12:11] <persia> lool, Why does device matter?  I thought we agreed no kernels on ARM images for now.
[12:11] <davidm> We do, we will have devices shortly that will be our target
[12:11] <lool> In general, kernel issues are holding us on 3 fronts: lpia out of date, real hardware armel flavours (well we have n810), and virtual images (current doesn't work in qemu)
[12:12] <lool> persia: We do need to test them and have kernels for them
[12:12] <lool> persia: The fact that there's no kernel in them is just a technical format matter, but we will offer the kernel for download I guess
[12:12] <persia> True.  For that, we'll need the image-wedger program
[12:12] <cjwatson> StevenK: at least the work I did in support of ogra was needed anyway and will transfer easily to whatever the new name is
[12:12] <davidm> For "today" yes N810 is a good target, I hope by next week and certainly by Jan we will have different hardware.
[12:13] <lool> StevenK, ogra: did you guys try the ubuntu n8x0 armel kernel on n8x0 already?
[12:13] <cjwatson> persia: err so does that mean you don't want d-i for armel? (I talked about this on the phone with David yesterday and I thought we still did even if there will certainly be some devices that can't install that way.)
[12:13]  * persia looks up the session notes
[12:14] <StevenK> I think we do.
[12:14] <StevenK> I even spent time fixing it.
[12:14] <cjwatson> d-i needs a kernel. Can perfectly well be several kernels with several d-i images resulting from them.
[12:14] <persia> I'm fairly sure we want d-i, but I'm not sure about d-i kernel modules.
[12:14] <cjwatson> you can't run d-i without kernel bits.
[12:14] <davidm> We know some can't but we think most can, so we want it in my mind.
[12:14] <lool> cjwatson: This is what we noted as first goal images in our discussion:
[12:15] <lool> * Jaunty vfat images, kernel-less - live ubuntu-desktop - d-i ubuntu-server
[12:15] <lool> (mobile-arm-images in gobby)
[12:15] <davidm> unless proven otherwise
[12:15] <cjwatson> I appreciate the targets but the last two are likely to be sort of backwards. Server-style images are a lot easier to get going
[12:15] <lool> cjwatson: What we didn't really discuss (by lack of understanding I guess) was how the d-i images would look like; we knew about tftp boot support and the like
[12:16] <cjwatson> note that there are two separate issues that it's important not to conflate: the kernel d-i boots with, and the kernel it installs
[12:16] <cjwatson> (if any)
[12:17] <lool> cjwatson: Our main concern was not having to build too many individual images, yet supporting many devices with as little kernels as possible but still a bunch
[12:17] <persia> Well, and not actually including a full set of kernels and initrds for space reasons.
[12:18] <lool> That was another reason indeed
[12:18] <lool> cjwatson: I think we didn't really discuss who would do what or how the images would exactly be used / look like
[12:18] <lool> cjwatson: I understand there are many ways to distribute / launch d-i
[12:19] <StevenK> My plan was to kick livecd-rootfs to just not install a kernel
[12:19] <cjwatson> I'm just concerned that you're saying we shouldn't do work that to some extent has already been done
[12:19] <davidm> I see bug #308465 has all bits marked Fix Released. So di is no longer blocked is that correct?
[12:19] <lool> StevenK: That part was the clear one for the desktop images; what we really didn't set straight is how exactly people would use the live images, how they'd combine with a kernel and all
[12:19] <lool> Because this is highly device specific
[12:20] <cjwatson> davidm: right, just waiting for it to build now; I asked for a build score bump earlier
[12:20] <davidm> thanks cjwatson
[12:20] <lool> cjwatson: What do you mean we shouldn't do work?
[12:20] <cjwatson> lool: well, there's already a set of kernels, d-i is already set up to use them ... and people are saying "no kernels on ARM images for now". So as an installer guy I am hopelessly confused about what y'all actually want
[12:21] <davidm> I think until we have some actual real hardware we are going to have questions (confusion), by the new year (possibly as early as next week) we will have some hardware.
[12:21] <persia> cjwatson, Looking through the notes in the mobile-arm-images gobby document, I believe you're not alone
[12:21] <lool> cjwatson: Ok; the concerns is that there are like let's say 7 or 8 planned kernel flavours; what are you building per kernel right now and what would you recommend we build don't build?
[12:22] <davidm> Once we have that we can do some actual testing and remove confusion.
[12:22] <cjwatson> lool: I'm just building d-i for all the available kernels
[12:22] <lool> cjwatson: What I think is that the image format will depend on the target device
[12:22] <cjwatson> which I think makes sense until I hear otherwise
[12:22] <lool> cjwatson: If you don't mind doing that for 7/8 kernels that's fine
[12:22] <StevenK> cjwatson: Sure, but do we make images for 8 kernel flavours?
[12:22] <persia> cjwatson, From what I'm seeing, I think we want d-i bits for all the available kernels, although those might not actually appear in the downloaded images
[12:23] <cjwatson> StevenK: in many cases I expect that the stuff d-i spits out will be sufficient / all you can actually use anyway
[12:24] <lool> cjwatson: I have an example which perhaps shows how unclear it is to me what output d-i should produce for all 7/8 kernels: I have a thecus N2100; it doesn't have any display, so it should be installed over SSH; to install is, one points the pre-loaded original linux install at a "firmware upgrade file" which is just a d-i image signed specially
[12:25] <lool> cjwatson: We probably want to offer such an image to allow installation on these devices, but this is only needed for this device, only for a kernel flavour
[12:25] <davidm> separate but related issue: cjwatson on our call yesterday you described a method of getting around the issue of the device that will not boot without jtag for updates, can you explain here again please (for the record) thanks
[12:25]  * persia notes that d-i as a set of components differs from a "d-i image" which is a misnomer for the alternate images.
[12:26] <lool> (in my case, the signed image contains a kernel and an initrd)
[12:26] <cjwatson> persia: and from a "d-i image" which is one of the objects d-i spits out that lives in archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/DIST/main/installer-ARCH/
[12:27] <lool> cjwatson: Say a device supports installation from USB mass storage; are we going to provide a vfat image suitable to be dd-ed on USB key?  Does d-i output that for all kernel flavours?
[12:27] <cjwatson> lool: well, d-i's perfectly capable of producing different form factors for different kernels, and indeed I think already does
[12:27] <cjwatson> ./iop32x/netboot.cfg:10:# Thecus N2100
[12:28] <cjwatson> i.e. it already deals with your device
[12:28] <cjwatson> but just for one kernel
[12:28] <lool> (hmm no installer-armel yet on http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/jaunty/main/)
[12:28] <cjwatson> davidm: for that, I suggested that we could install kboot, which is a Linux kernel with an initramfs that parses a bootloader-a-like configuration file and then kexecs the real image
[12:29] <cjwatson> I think the new generation of kboot (which we use on ps3) is petitboot
[12:29] <cjwatson> but same basic idea
[12:29] <cjwatson> lool: awaiting build
[12:29] <lool> cjwatson: Ok; so basically we aimed at not building useless images and not building a huge number of big images; if d-i is already well behaved enough that just enabling it to build on all the kernel flavours will DTRT, that's perfect :)
[12:29] <StevenK> lool: d-i was depwait due to things needing to be promoting
[12:29] <lool> arf petitboot
[12:29] <cjwatson> lool: I'd hope so, quite a bit of work has been done in Debian on d-i/arm
[12:30] <davidm> cjwatson, thanks.
[12:30] <cjwatson> lool: ?
[12:30] <lool> cjwatson: arf == lol
[12:30] <lool> Just found the name cute
[12:32] <cjwatson> ah
[12:32] <davidm> OK so we don't have images for ARM yet, but should have one for Alpha 3
[12:32] <davidm> We have the UMPC image that will be renamed by Alpha 3
[12:33] <StevenK> We have MID images -- albeit with 2.6.27
[12:33] <StevenK> And no d-i due to the the kernel, either
[12:33] <lool> davidm: Concerning the ARM images, which one should we test in priority?
[12:33] <davidm> UMPC was given some testing last night, can someone else besides ogra grab it and do some more testing please?
[12:33] <lool> s/one/ones
[12:34] <lool> davidm: Ok; I'll take that
[12:34] <davidm> lool, for now I think N810 as everyone has the device, as soon as everyone has the next device we use it.
[12:35]  * davidm lool to grab the UMPC image and test.
[12:35] <davidm> [action] lool to grab the UMPC image and test.
[12:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to grab the UMPC image and test.
[12:35] <lool> Emmet doesn't have a N810, but ok
[12:35] <lool> (or do you?)
[12:35]  * davidm grumbles about forgetting mootbot commands
[12:35] <persia> No, they aren't sold here.  I can go get something similar if required, but am happy to wait
[12:36] <davidm> persia, I'll send you one, I was under the impression that you had one from UDS
[12:36] <davidm> I have a spare sitting here on my desk.
[12:37] <persia> That works too :)
[12:37] <davidm> OK anything more on the topic of Alpha 2/3?
[12:37] <lool> Well still related is netbook stuff
[12:37] <lool> We need to work on merging UNR packages more, enabling them by default and all
[12:37] <lool> Do we have an owner for this work already?
[12:37] <StevenK> I'd suggest ogra
[12:38] <davidm> No actually, lool who is best for this?  I have a list of packages.
[12:38] <lool> We need someone with a netbook!  :)
[12:38]  * persia will see about reclaiming the Kohjinsha
[12:38] <davidm> Well the Q1 Ultra will work for this until we have purchased hardware.
[12:39] <lool> davidm: I'm tempted to think most people could do it, but we should keep an eye of the work load of each of us; perhaps we need to list what we all will be working on this cycle explicitely and look at moving unassigned stuff at this point?
[12:39] <lool> I would like doing it, but I'm not sure I'm not overcommitting
[12:39] <davidm> OK I'll take the action of making a wiki page with the list of packages that need to be merged/updated
[12:40] <lool> Hmm I thought there was one
[12:40] <davidm> is there?
[12:40] <davidm> I don't have the URL for it.
[12:40] <lool> Ah no, we have a wiki text for it though
[12:40] <lool> Should just be a matter of copy-paste
[12:40] <StevenK> davidm: Throw me an action for sorting out the seeds, since I've done most of it locally
[12:41] <davidm> StevenK, lets change the topic to seeds first, then make the action
[12:41] <lool> So perhaps a good course of actions is a) everybody to do drafting on pet specs and set drafter and assignee b) we review as a group what everybody does and assign the remaining important specs?
[12:42] <lool> I frankly don't have a good overview of who will be working on what; just what I remember from UDS
[12:43]  * persia claims all the otherwise unclaimed specs
[12:43] <persia> (at least as drafter)
[12:43] <davidm> OK I'm going to close current topic and open a new one, updating UDS specs
[12:43] <davidm> [topic] updating UDS spec's with results from UDS
[12:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  updating UDS spec's with results from UDS
[12:44] <lool> Hmm looks like we wont have a meeting next week...
[12:44] <persia> I've been going through notes and gobby documents, and expect to be able to dump stuff in the next 2-3 days into most of the specs.
[12:44] <lool> Many people are half-VAC this week or next
[12:45] <lool> It means postponing this review to January which is late
[12:45] <davidm> [action] lool, StevenK, persia, ogra to update their specs by Jan 8th
[12:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool, StevenK, persia, ogra to update their specs by Jan 8th
[12:45] <davidm> [action] persia to grab unclaimed specs and update those.
[12:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to grab unclaimed specs and update those.
[12:45] <davidm> I agree but with the late UDS we don't have a choice
[12:46] <davidm> lool, ^^
[12:46] <lool> (I wish I'd think of this last week and set it as a goal for today but that would have been probably tight)
[12:47] <davidm> with travel and such I think impossible and there is no meeting next week or the week after.
[12:47] <davidm> OK anymore on seeds?
[12:47] <davidm> OK anymore on specs
[12:48] <davidm> that is
[12:48] <lool> I have a question on images if I'm allowed to jump back a second on the previous topic
[12:48] <davidm> Ok
[12:48] <lool> StevenK, cjwatson: will we have a livefs builder for armel?
[12:49] <davidm> [topic] seed status
[12:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  seed status
[12:49] <StevenK> We will have one, yes.
[12:49] <lool> StevenK: Is that planned for before alpha 3?
[12:49] <StevenK> I have no idea.
[12:49] <StevenK> I'll use it when it's configured
[12:50] <davidm> lool, can you take the action to cut and paste the UNT text to a wiki page?
[12:50] <lool> UNT?  UNR?
[12:50] <lool> Sure
[12:51] <davidm> Yes, fumble fingered sorry
[12:51] <davidm> [action] lool to move UNR text to wiki page.
[12:51] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to move UNR text to wiki page.
[12:51] <davidm> StevenK, seed status?  You have an update?
[12:52] <StevenK> I have most of the changes made locally.
[12:52] <StevenK> I'll go through the unr seed and see if any changes need to be made
[12:52] <davidm> [action] StevenK to sort out seed changes
[12:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to sort out seed changes
[12:55] <lool> Ah you wanted to replace the umpc seed wholesale with the unr one
[12:55] <StevenK> Not exactly
[12:57] <lool> Any other topics for today?
[12:57] <persia> mobile-applications
[12:57] <davidm> Just the usual status updates, but we are out of time
[12:57] <lool> (We might be running out of time)
[12:58] <persia> Ah, then none :)
[12:58] <davidm> we'll have to post the status in the email
[12:58] <lool> actually we have time
[12:58] <persia> I'll move the mobile-applications to a wiki page, and send email expecting people to update it for the next meeting.
[12:58] <davidm> persia, good
[12:58] <lool> I don't see any meeting after ours today
[12:58] <davidm> [action] persia I'll move the mobile-applications to a wiki page, and send email expecting people to update it for the next meeting.
[12:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia I'll move the mobile-applications to a wiki page, and send email expecting people to update it for the next meeting.
[12:58] <persia> No, Desktop changed the time, and moved to a different channel.  Still
[12:59] <davidm> OK lets do a quick status and then end the meeting
[12:59] <davidm> [topic] status report (quick)
[12:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  status report (quick)
[12:59] <lool> Who's quick?
[12:59] <davidm> persia, ?
[12:59] <persia> UDS, post-UDS braindump & notes review.
[12:59] <persia> (not yet complete, nor posted)
[13:00] <davidm> OK
[13:00] <davidm> StevenK, ?
[13:00] <StevenK> UDS, post-UDS review/spec writing, armel
[13:01] <davidm> lool, ?
[13:01] <lool> SRUs, MIRs, general catchup, doctor, poked some ARM stuff
[13:01] <lool> davidm: what about you?
[13:01] <lool> Feeling any better?
[13:02] <davidm> post UDS travel, paperwork, and setting interviews
[13:02] <davidm> Still have chest cold I think.
[13:02] <lool> Sorry about that  :-/
[13:02] <davidm> Got is as I got back on Monday.
[13:02] <davidm> So I hope it clears soonish
[13:02]  * StevenK thinks he managed to avoid the lool-cold
[13:02]  * lool sends a letter to .au
[13:03] <lool> hugs and kisses from France!
[13:03]  * StevenK stamps it Return to Sender, unopened
[13:03] <davidm> OK I'm going to close the meeting, StevenK you have the action to post weekly report tomorrow
[13:03]  * StevenK nods
[13:03] <lool> davidm: thanks for chairing
[13:03] <davidm> #endmeeting
[13:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:03.
[13:03] <davidm> lool, thanks
[13:03] <StevenK> When I recover from the coma I'm about to fall into
[13:03] <lool> I wish you people a merry xmas next week
[13:03] <davidm> Indeed
[14:01] <persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
[14:01] <Koon> o/
[14:02] <persia> Are we expecting ludovicc, slytherin, or robilad?
[14:03] <Koon> I don't think ludovicc will join us, don't know for the others
[14:04] <persia> slytherin doesn't appear on freenode, and robilad seems to be on an unusually small number of channels, so I'm guessing it's logging-only.
[14:05] <persia> So, roadmap: anything exciting for maven?
[14:05] <Koon> ludivic is still working on the tools
[14:06] <Koon> We've been discussing for Torsten Werner (debian-java) about integration
[14:07] <Koon> he is following a slightly different model: revisiting all Java library packages and provide a Maven-compatible view of them
[14:07] <Koon> i.e. /usr/share/java-maven-repo/path/to/artifactname/versionname/artifact-version.jar
[14:08] <Koon> rather than /usr/share/java/artifact-version.jar
[14:08] <Koon> The two approaches are not mutually exclusive
[14:08] <Koon> though I would have thought going for /usr/share/java-maven-repo things would require some policy decisions
[14:09] <persia> So we're likely to end up with a hybrid, and finally with just syncs?
[14:09] <persia> I'd agree that it would probably need some policy changes, but pkg-java can do that :)
[14:09] <Koon> yep.
[14:10] <persia> Anything else you want on the meeting records for maven this week?
[14:10] <Koon> Another concern raised is that asking maven to map to slightly-different versions of JARs is dangerous
[14:10] <Koon> I'll explain a bit
[14:10] <persia> API/ABI type issues?
[14:11] <Koon> maven allows Java developers to pick a very specific version number for every JAR
[14:11] <Koon> We, on the other hand, provide just one version
[14:12] <Koon> so when maven asks for plexus-utils-1.0.7_alpha7, we can give it 1.0.7_alpha2, or alpha10
[14:12] <Koon> there is no API/ABI protection whatsoever in version numbers
[14:13] <Koon> while this is reasonable for small software stacks... it can quickly become a problem with large ones
[14:13] <Koon> which are usually those using maven :)
[14:13] <Koon> I don't really know how we can solve that.
[14:13] <Koon> while still maintaining some common libraries
[14:14] <persia> Presumably that's something that can be improved as developers learn a more modular approach, as expected with the Java 7 transition?
[14:14] <persia> Certainly not quickly, but in time?
[14:14] <Koon> yes, we might need some workaround in between
[14:15] <persia> More than just our standard build/test/patch/report model?
[14:15] <Koon> something like shipping the expected JAR stack as part of the binaries, for complex software
[14:15] <persia> We do that now sometimes, but it's a bit of a security nightmare.
[14:16] <Koon> that may be preferable to testing nightmare + losing JavaEE certifications
[14:17] <Koon> anyway, I wanted to raise the issue because I think the common libraries model doesn't fit too well with the current Java world
[14:17] <persia> Right.  Generally, the process has been to try to use system libraries, and bundle when they didn't work.
[14:17] <persia> No, it certainly doesn't fit with current cultural practices, although this is (slowly) changing.
[14:17] <Koon> I'm sure robilad could provide some insights on the direction we are heading to
[14:17] <Koon> that's all
[14:18] <persia> Next item is removing Java 5 from Jaunty.
[14:19] <persia> There was a discussion about this with Sun representatives at UDS, and given the expected date for end-of-support for Java 5 from Sun, we will want to get this completed for Jaunty (and arguably may have wanted it for intrepid).
[14:20] <persia> Those users who need Java 5 beyond end-of-support can use 8.04.x or 8.10, but there won't be any more updates (even bugfix) soon enough.
[14:20] <zul> so whats the next version of java from sun?
[14:20] <persia> We still need to get the spec done, and get it approved, etc.
[14:21] <persia> zul, Next spec is Java 7.  I'm not sure of the exact schedule for Sun JDK 5, Sun JDK 6, OpenJDK 6, or OpenJDK 7 builds.
[14:23] <persia> That's it for roadmap.
[14:24] <persia> On an administrative note, the next two Thursdays fall on days considered holidays in many places.  I'll probably be around for the first, but not the second.  Is anyone expecting to attend a Java Team meeting on those days?
[14:24] <Koon> persia: not me
[14:24] <persia> Well then, I'm not holding official meetings on those days :)
[14:24] <persia> That's it.  Have a good week.
[14:25] <Koon> Thanks, you too :)
[22:44] <lukjad007> Sorry, forgot to log out.
[22:53] <ubuntugeek> Hey Matthew
[22:54] <forumsmatthew> hello!
[22:57] <Technoviking> afternoon
[22:57] <ubuntugeek> How's it going?
[22:57] <forumsmatthew> I'm cold. It's 57 (F) here.
[22:57] <lukjad007> 25 here.
[22:57] <Technoviking> going good
[22:58] <Technoviking> 23 F
[22:58] <forumsmatthew> I'm a cold wimp...it's all those years in the desert
[22:58] <forumsmatthew> on both sides of the Atlantic
[22:58] <lukjad007> Heh. Well, I like winter.
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> 14F
[22:59] <lukjad007> It makes most of my adversaries dumb
[22:59] <Snowflake> I wondered when jdong would be arriving.
[22:59] <lukjad007> hey jdong
[22:59] <forumsmatthew> jdong, welcome!
[22:59] <jdong> hi everyone :)
[22:59] <jdong> I got the date right this time!
[22:59] <ubuntugeek> Hi
[23:00] <forumsmatthew> I'm pretty sure Kiwi isn't coming. Since the rest of us are here, shall we get started?
[23:00] <ubuntugeek> Let's go ahead and get started
[23:00] <forumsmatthew> lol
[23:00] <ubuntugeek> The agenda is located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[23:00] <Technoviking> I have only got a hour, got to change tapes before I go home :(
[23:00] <talsemgeest> So why isn't kiwi coming?
[23:00] <ubuntugeek> Should be quick Mike
[23:00] <ubuntugeek> talsemgeest: odd time for him
[23:01] <talsemgeest> 12.PM?
[23:01] <ubuntugeek> He works
[23:01]  * drubin catches up the logs
[23:01] <talsemgeest> Ah
[23:01] <ubuntugeek> NicolsDeschilre are you here to discuss the brainstorm agenda item?
[23:01] <lukjad007> Hey talsemgeest, will you be able to stay?
[23:01] <talsemgeest> Maybe another 20 minutes
[23:02] <ubuntugeek> Ok, we'll come back to the first Item then
[23:02] <lukjad007> Okay. If you go, I'll bring up your point
[23:02] <ubuntugeek> The second item "The strikethrough tags [s][/s] do not work in the Forum"
[23:02] <drubin> brb
[23:02] <ubuntugeek> This isn't a native bbcode in vbulletin, however, I just added support for it :)
[23:02] <forumsmatthew> sweet!
[23:03] <lukjad007> so, it's in?
[23:03] <ubuntugeek> Yes, its in
[23:03] <lukjad007> Thanks you!
[23:03] <forumsmatthew> thank you
[23:03] <ubuntugeek> Working and tested [s]test[/s] will strike
[23:03] <jdong> coolness
[23:03] <Snowflake> On a related note, I believe [hr] is nonexistent or mod-only? (Just wondering)
[23:03] <talsemgeest> Awesome
[23:04] <ubuntugeek> Snowflake, no plans for that one we try to keep it limited.
[23:04] <Snowflake> Ah.
[23:04] <drubin> Snowflake: hr as in horizontal rule?
[23:04] <Snowflake> drubin: Yes.
[23:04] <jdong> ubuntugeek: maybe we should try using the del tag?
[23:04] <jdong> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_del.asp
[23:04] <drubin> ubuntugeek: thanks for moving the meeting time.
 is technically deprecated
[23:04] <ubuntugeek> Next, on the agenda we have "Superfluous moderation on the forums"  by wrtpeeps. Are they here to address their item?
[23:05] <ubuntugeek> There isn't much detail on this item, so I'm not sure what its pertaining to. Anyone else?
[23:05] <drubin> jdong: technically we *should* be only using css for this stuff
[23:06] <jdong> ubuntugeek: I believe it comes from one of the res center topics.
[23:06] <jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=996267
[23:06] <ubuntugeek> drudin: we do not allow html code directly in posts
[23:06] <forumsmatthew> he was unhappy with an infraction that Kiwi gave and I supported, or the other way around
[23:06] <Snowflake> Before wrtpeeps gets flooded, I send a message to him in the hopes that he is paying attention...
[23:06] <drubin> ubuntugeek: I was just refering that [s] should apply a style rather then html code
[23:07] <ubuntugeek> drubin; that makes things more complicated
[23:07] <jdong> well with regard to wrtpeep's situation the existing FC replies sum up my opinion and his replies speak for themself.
[23:07] <drubin> ubuntugeek: like with all things. :) Just saying it would be the ideal
[23:07]  * lukjad007 will be right back.
[23:07] <forumsmatthew> My opinion is unchanged from what I said in the thread you linked
[23:08] <ubuntugeek> I agree with the moderation and infraction that took place in this situation
[23:08] <jdong> I don't see anything that needs to be done. The infraction was appropriate and wrtpeeps is not here to say otherwise.
[23:08] <ubuntugeek> jdong: agreed
[23:08] <forumsmatthew> agreed...and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Superfluous?jss=0
[23:09] <Technoviking> agreed
[23:09] <ubuntugeek> OK lets move on, if wrtpeeps shows up we can discuss it further. But the FC is in agreement with the actions taken.
[23:09] <ubuntugeek> Next, The bump thread Feel that they are over loading the forums unnecessarily. Drubin, you are up.
[23:10] <drubin> give me a sec writing it down :)
[23:10] <ubuntugeek> No problem, take your time.
[23:11] <drubin> We state that this is first and formost a tech support forum, yet we have this thread. I am not saying we need to get ride of these light hearted threads I am seriously wondering the extrea load they impose in the db is this nessary considering all the issues we were having at the time
[23:11] <drubin> btw the issues seemed to have calmed down a little bit
[23:11] <jdong> well I think the "issues" calming down is mere coincidence.
[23:12] <ubuntugeek> jdong: agreed
[23:12] <talsemgeest> I feel that any overuse of the forum resources is worth it for the friendships that are made in that thread. It is a great place to get to know your fellow ubuntu-forumers.
[23:12] <jdong> while I absolutely agree this up-and-down flakiness of the forum needs to be resolved and looked at seriously, I don't feel a single long thread is the cause.
[23:12] <wrtpeeps> er, hi?
[23:12] <drubin> the extra posts might slow down the quries on a whole searching/indexing of the db
[23:12] <drubin> jdong: +1
[23:12] <jdong> vBulletin doesn't really work in a way where long threads are more "expensive" to access.
[23:12] <ubuntugeek> drubin: I can assure that that bump thread isn't causing any load.
[23:12] <forumsmatthew> wrtpeeps, we will get back to your issue shortly, after we finish this on
[23:13] <forumsmatthew> *one
[23:13] <jdong> that being said, I think we do need to take a look at why on earth we have so many proxy  errors.
[23:13] <jdong> ubuntugeek: any guesses?
[23:13] <ubuntugeek> It's configured wrong?
[23:13] <drubin> ubuntugeek: You have direct access to the DB's/code I would love to know the explained query when viewing the bump thread how many rows it examines
[23:13] <forumsmatthew> gremlins?
[23:13] <wrtpeeps> hold on til I go refresh myself on what my issue was
[23:13] <Snowflake> jdong: Someday you'll have to tell me how the database works (if you can). I'm curious how that operates.
[23:14] <lukjad007> Has it been narrowed down to a hardware or a software problem?
[23:14] <jdong> drubin: no more than it costs to retrieve any other 50 posts or 25 or whatever you have per page.
[23:14] <ubuntugeek> drubin: Alot of the queries are cached
[23:14] <jdong> lukjad007: it's software.
[23:14] <ubuntugeek> drubin: by vbulletin
[23:14] <drubin> ubuntugeek: Ok topic over.
[23:15] <drubin> :)
[23:15] <ubuntugeek> drubin: when  you pull of up a page of the thread its only pulling the posts on that page
[23:15] <jdong> I do think there's something weird going on with the proxy though....
[23:15] <forumsmatthew> jdong, +1
[23:15] <drubin> jdong: +1
[23:15] <jdong> there was a phase where basically 1 of 10 pages end in proxy error
[23:15] <ubuntugeek> drubin; it doesn't prefetch all 1000 pages
[23:15] <drubin> ubuntugeek: Ye I know that. but I wanted to know the means for "searching" for those 20 posts
[23:16]  * drubin is trying to find his post explaining this
[23:16] <jdong> drubin: hashtable.
[23:16] <jdong> constant access time
[23:16] <jdong> it's not an issue for vBulletin to handle
[23:17] <drubin> ye it should be handeled on the DB's side
[23:17] <drubin> but as with all design/programming there are more then one way to skin a cat
[23:17] <drubin> I was wondering how this way was handeling threads with huge amounts of posts...
[23:18] <ubuntugeek> Lets move on to wrtpeeps agenda item. I think we established that the bump thread isnt causing any problems.
[23:18] <forumsmatthew> +1
[23:18] <lukjad007> Thank you ubuntugeek
[23:18] <ubuntugeek> wrtpeeps you are up
[23:18] <jdong> +1
[23:19] <wrtpeeps> ok
[23:19] <wrtpeeps> what exactly do you want me to say? Haven't been to one of these gatherings before
[23:19] <jdong> give us a quick description of the problem, link to relevant posts, and why you disagree with the decision.
[23:19] <ubuntugeek> I assume you put your item on the agenda because you feel you were wrongly given an infraction
[23:19] <wrtpeeps> Ok, so firstly apologies as I am unprepared as I wasn't aware this meeting was taking place now
[23:20] <wrtpeeps> but yes, I received what quite frankly was a pathetic infraction from KiwiNZ i believe.
[23:20] <wrtpeeps> For calling someone "paranoid" I got accused of "insulting other members"
[23:21] <wrtpeeps> This was, in my opinion, a totally unnecessary intervention by an administrator.
[23:21] <forumsmatthew> we all looked earlier, but for the record, here is the Resolution Center thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=996267
[23:21] <wrtpeeps> ty
[23:21] <forumsmatthew> I stated my opinion there, and it is unchanged
[23:21] <wrtpeeps> Yes, you said "It is possible for intelligent people to disagree, even strongly, without resorting to mockery. Please learn how."
[23:21] <ubuntugeek> wrtpeeps:  it was your tone that caused the infraction, it comes across as insulting.
[23:21] <wrtpeeps> Which, is a contradiction within intself
[23:21] <wrtpeeps> -n
[23:21] <jdong> I've looked over the original thread and the resolution center posts again...
[23:22] <talsemgeest> Ok, sorry guys but I have to go.
[23:22] <jdong> I do feel, wrtpeeps, your response was overly harsh and directly attacking than appropriate for answering the OP's question.
[23:22] <wrtpeeps> forumsmatthew: your reply to me was dismissive and mocking
[23:22] <lukjad007> Bye talsemgeest
[23:22] <forumsmatthew> I answered that accusation in the thread. My opinion is unchanged.
[23:23] <jdong> furthermore, your attitude and choice of words in your resolution center post are not so great either
[23:23] <wrtpeeps> Can we assume therefore, that all future instances of people being called paranoid or using a tone displeasing to you that they will be similarly infracted?
[23:23] <jdong> if anyone calls anyone else "absolutely paranoid" and mocks them for asking a privacy question, yes, it's safe to say they will be infracted.
[23:24] <wrtpeeps> I will admit, it's a long time ago now and I am over it
[23:24] <wrtpeeps> but I do feel that it was unnecessary
[23:24] <jdong> as Matthew said, it's totally fine to disagree, even strongly disagree, with someone, or to find their opinion unreasonable.
[23:25] <jdong> but you express that by pointing out specific facts that contradict the OP's statement
[23:25] <ubuntugeek> wrtpeeps: Like most infractions they expire and yours did in this case.
[23:25] <jdong> not by name-calling and mocking...
[23:25] <jdong> a light infraction -- the lowest point-value one possible, was given for your post
[23:25] <jdong> it was meant as just a polite reminder to be careful of your tone.
[23:25] <wrtpeeps> speaking of mocking
[23:25] <ubuntugeek> jdong: +1
[23:26] <wrtpeeps> is there any chance the pointless, childish, continual bashing of windows users could be moderated? (In Community chat)
[23:26] <wrtpeeps> especially the grossly uneducated posts.
[23:26] <ubuntugeek> wrtpeeps: please use the forum report option and a staff member will look into it
[23:26] <forumsmatthew> when you see it, please report the post
[23:26] <jdong> we do pay attention to such posts.
[23:26] <wrtpeeps> ok, thanks :)
[23:26] <Technoviking> wrtpeeps: many people who do that do get infraction for doing so
[23:26] <jdong> as matthew said, please report such posts if you feel they are out of line
[23:27] <wrtpeeps> Technoviking: good to know :)
[23:27] <jdong> we don't support such bashing of anything.
[23:27] <wrtpeeps> ok well, as I said, I am over my original problem, and the second one is fine too
[23:27] <wrtpeeps> so that's all from me folks :)
[23:27] <ubuntugeek> Ok great
[23:27] <jdong> ok, awesome
[23:27] <jdong> thanks for coming to the meeting
[23:27] <wrtpeeps> no problem
[23:28] <jdong> ok, is Nicolas or anyone else from Brainstorm here to discuss the remaining item?
[23:28] <ubuntugeek> The first item we havent address since he isnt here.
[23:28] <ubuntugeek> We'll leave it on the agenda for next time
[23:29] <jdong> ok, sounds good.
[23:29] <ubuntugeek> Does anyone else have anything?
[23:29] <Joeb454> I like it when meetings are this short ;)
[23:29] <JenkinBr> Joeb454: you missed it all
[23:29] <jdong> Joeb454: that's what... oh forget it.
[23:29] <forumsmatthew> thanks, everyone!
[23:29] <Joeb454> I know :)
[23:30] <forumsmatthew> my wife is calling me
[23:30] <forumsmatthew> see you later!
[23:30] <ubuntugeek> Thanks everyone see you next month
[23:30] <Joeb454> later forumsmatthew
[23:30] <jdong> bye!
[23:30] <Technoviking> happy holidays everyone
[23:30] <Joeb454> bye ubuntugeek
[23:30] <ubuntugeek> -- end meeting
[23:30] <Joeb454> and +1 Technoviking :D
[23:30] <jdong> :)
[23:30] <lukjad007> Bye!
[23:30] <drubin> bye
[23:31] <JenkinBr> bye
[23:31] <ubuntugeek> bye everyone


[01:05] <nhaines> Meeting coming up soon!
[01:05] <pleia2> I might not make it :\ the day got away from me and I still have errands to run before shops close
[01:06] <pleia2> spring cleaning is going well though, so hooray :)
[01:10] <nhaines> Haha, ha, yeah!  I hate when that happens!
[01:10]  * nhaines : [editing novel intensifies]
[01:10]  * nhaines shrugs.
[01:11] <nhaines> There's beer, anyway.  Good job on the spring cleaning!  I've been making progress, too.  I might still have to schedule a day to just clean, but maybe not!
[01:19] <pleia2> I'm thinking either beer and fish later, or wine and order in :d
[01:19] <pleia2> depends on where I'm add at EoD though ;)
[02:00] <lynorian> meeting time
[02:00] <nhaines> pleia2: it's corn dog day at Wienerschnitzel.
[02:00] <nhaines> It's also meeting time!  \o/
[02:01] <nhaines> #startmeeting
[02:01] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Mar 20 02:01:14 2017 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[02:01] <darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[02:01] <nhaines> #chair pleia2 lynorian
[02:01] <darthrobot> Current chairs: lynorian nhaines pleia2
[02:01] <nhaines> Welcome to the Ubuntu California meeting for March 19th, 2017!
[02:01] <nhaines> Tonight's agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/17March19
[02:01] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/17March19 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:02] <nhaines> Tonight we're going to take a look back at UbuCon Summit and SCALE 15x.
[02:02] <nhaines> But before that...
[02:02] <nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
[02:02] <nhaines> Are there any upcoming events that anyone would like to announce?
[02:03]  * lynorian has none
[02:03] <george__> I don't have any right now....
[02:04] <george__> Is there another Pasadena hour coming up?
[02:04] <nhaines> Yes, but not until April 13th.  :)
[02:05] <nhaines> Maybe there will be some more activity after Ubuntu 17.04 is released.
[02:05] <nhaines> #topic Announcements
[02:05] <george__> I am sure
[02:05] <nhaines> Ubuntu 17.04 is scheduled for release on April 13th!
[02:05] <george__> Are we going to have a release party?
[02:06] <nhaines> No plans down here at the moment.  pleia2 might know what's going on in the Bay Area.
[02:06] <nhaines> With SCALE pushed into March now, I think it's a little harder for the usual suspects to handle both.
[02:07] <george__> You are right, I am sure.
[02:08] <lynorian> yes nhaines
[02:08] <nhaines> We have one agenda item tonight.
[02:08] <nhaines> #topic UbuCon Summit and SCALE 15x post-mortem
[02:09] <george__> Big topic.  Any particular order?
[02:09] <nhaines> This month we handled UbuCon Summit and manned the Ubuntu booth at SCALE.  So it's time to take a look at how things went and gather feedback for next time.
[02:09] <nhaines> Let's take a look at UbuCon Summit first.
[02:10] <george__> OK
[02:10] <nhaines> The schedule is available here: http://ubucon.org/en/events/ubucon-summit-us/schedule/
[02:10] <darthrobot> Title: [Schedule | UbuCon portal]
[02:11] <nhaines> Our opening keynote was by Carl Richell, the CEO and founder of System 76.  I thought his talk was interesting and was pleased that he chose to make product announcements at the end.
[02:12] <lynorian> yes that was quite interesting
[02:13] <george__> Yes, it is always nice.  It makes you feel that the manufacturer cares more about the people than the product
[02:13] <george__> It feels really good.  Nice to have them onboard
[02:14] <nhaines> I missed Frank Karlitscheck and Jos Poortvliet's talk about Nextcloud and haven't had a chance to watch the stream, but I did have the chance to chat with them quite a bit and that was really nice.  :)
[02:14] <george__> That is cool.
[02:15] <nhaines> Nextcloud and Mycroft graciously donated hardware to the booth so that we could have it on hand.
[02:15] <george__> I am sorry, I don't know where to find the streams, that would be nice since I missed the 2nd
[02:15] <george__> That was nice too.  It made it interesting
[02:15] <lynorian> george__, search southern california linux expo on youtube
[02:16] <george__> OK, will do.
[02:16] <nhaines> I don't know if SCALE links the videos to each talk, but they do eventually release them on their YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/socallinuxexpo
[02:16] <darthrobot> [R: www.youtube.com] Title: [Southern California Linux Expo - YouTube]
[02:16] <george__> OK, thanks for that.
[02:17] <nhaines> It was great to have Amber Graner and pleia2 speak as it always is, and jose was nice enough to fill in for a talk at the last minute.
[02:17] <george__> Are there other talks that might be helpful also?
[02:17] <nhaines> On day 2, we had Michael Hall and Sergio Schvezov from Canonical give talks before it all went to unconference sessions.
[02:18] <nhaines> george__: do you mean topic suggestions?
[02:19] <george__> Yes, I guess.  As you know it was difficult for me to attend anything else besides the booth.
[02:19] <george__> But I would like to contribute at some point
[02:20] <nhaines> Well, if you are giving any talk, you are automatically unscheduled from the booth for that period of time.  :)
[02:21] <nhaines> We have two tracks: a developer track and a community track, and this year we experimented with more time between them to increase "hallway track" time.
[02:21] <nhaines> So anything Ubuntu-focused that fits onto either of those two tracks is something we're interested in.
[02:21] <nhaines> Does anyone have any feedback about the hallway track time or about the unconference sessions?
[02:22] <george__> OK, I'll work on it as I have a lot of different material.
[02:22] <nhaines> Shoot me an email later on if you want help.  :)
[02:23] <george__> OK, thanks.  I sent one a couple of weeks ago and you have been busy, I am sure of it.
[02:23] <nhaines> I will make a note and get back to you, then!
[02:23] <nhaines> No feedback about the hallway track time or about the unconference sessions, then?
[02:24] <george__> I know you will, you are great.
[02:24] <lynorian> Hallway track was nice
[02:24] <george__> What was your favorite?
[02:27] <george__> Lynorian - what did you like about it?
[02:27] <george__> does that help?
[02:27] <lynorian> I liked more time to talk to people
[02:28] <george__> Cool - wish I could have been there, perhaps next year
[02:28] <nhaines> Richard and I will be chatting about UbuCon Summit again pretty soon, so I'll let him know.
[02:28] <nhaines> Thursday night we had a part at Porto Allegre again, and it seemed pretty well-attended.
[02:29] <nhaines> Any thoughts on that one?
[02:29] <lynorian> Was quite good for the short while I was there again nice to talk to all the people
[02:30] <george__> I wish I could have been there.
[02:30] <george__> My plans fell through to get there earlier, but it worked out OK, as you know.
[02:31] <nhaines> I heard good feedback about it during the show.  It was noticed that we had a few more people there than were at UbuCon, but if we assume the benefit of the doubt, then we could say that some who couldn't attend UbuCon on Thursday but had plans to attend Friday might have been able to make it.
[02:32] <nhaines> I will say that the Ubuntu Community Donations Fund paid for the party as well as the coffee and pastry service during UbuCon, so thanks to anyone who's donated.
[02:32] <nhaines> I got to meet the owner of the restaurant, who seemed happy to have us back.  Fingers crossed for next year, too!
[02:33] <george__> That is good, thank you for the encouragement It is always nice to know where it came from and be made aware.
[02:33] <george__> Cool.
[02:34] <nhaines> Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, we had a booth at SCALE.  Canonical sponsored the second booth space to give us a double-sized booth, as they've done in the past.
[02:34] <george__> In a great location also!
[02:35] <nhaines> System 76, Tierratek, and Linuxcity provided computer systems running Ubuntu to show off, and as mentioned Nextcloud and Mycroft had demo units, too.  I put my Raspberry Pi 2 with the pretty Ubuntu case on the table as well.  And Canonical sent Nexus 4s and a Fairphone 2 running Ubuntu.
[02:36] <george__> Yes, it was a great promotion for everyone.
[02:37] <nhaines> And as usual we had some very hard-working volunteers at the booth.  george__, of course, jose, lynorian, Matt Mootz, Ian Santopietro from System 76, stick out immediately in my mind.
[02:37] <lynorian> yes it was
[02:37] <george__> My VP at TierraTek was very glad to donate the Fanless system
[02:38] <george__> It really makes him take more notice that Ubuntu is a real player, which is great -  Thanks for the mention
[02:38] <nhaines> And Michael, Sergio, Jill Rosenau, and Ted Gould from Canonical also passed through and spent time at the booth.  Nextcloud and Mycroft guys came by occasionally to check in on us and tried not to get stuck at the booth talking to fans, since they had their own booths to attend to as well.  :)
[02:40] <nhaines> Was there any feedback on the booth or swag?
[02:40] <george__> It would be nice, of course, to have a little more swag.
[02:41] <george__> People are still asking about CDs or thumb drives.  I offered to download for them, but no takers
[02:41] <nhaines> If someone wants to volunteer to have DVDs pressed and packaged, I will sponor the community funds request for that.
[02:42] <george__> OK, I can do that next year.  It wouldn't be a lot, just a few I am sure
[02:42] <george__> Some people just had a slow internet connection
[02:43] <nhaines> Thumb drives are $7.30 a piece, and so Canonical only provides 25 of them.  So we did have them to give away, but we tried to keep them to people who needed them due to download speeds, and not for people who just wanted a souvenir.
[02:44] <george__> Understood
[02:44] <nhaines> But we do have a bring-your-own thumbdrive policy.  I had blank DVDs but we had no optical drives to burn them in, I think.
[02:44] <george__> I had one, I could have brought it out if I had know.
[02:45] <george__> known
[02:45] <george__> Sorry  :-(
[02:45] <lynorian> my laptop had one
[02:45] <nhaines> We'll look at this in greater detail next year, as I do want to have a solution in place.  When we had CDs or DVDs available, we used to be able to burn variants (flavors, different architectures, etc.) on-demand, but we're a lot more high traffic now.
[02:46] <nhaines> Other than swag, was there anything we could've done better at the booth?
[02:46] <george__> Yes, very true.
[02:46] <george__> It is a very small thing for me, but it would be helpful
[02:47] <george__> If we could set up the cloths and THEN move the table back it would be helpful to arrange everything, switches and such...
[02:47] <george__> Please?
[02:47] <lynorian> george__, agreed from being there
[02:48] <george__> I would like to bring some twist ties and arrange it better so we aren't struggling when we have to plug and unplug stuff.
[02:49] <nhaines> If we need access to behind the tables, we can do it with the tables unclothed.  The hard part this time was we were trying to see if using three tablecloths made sense in the first place.
[02:50] <george__> I think they looked GREAT!  What a nice idea!
[02:51] <lynorian> Yes they looked great the cable management was a tiny hassle
[02:51] <nhaines> I think it ended looking really nice.  Better than just two orange Ubuntu tablecloths.  With the banner it's a bit too much orange, but with the silver and purple it worked out.
[02:51] <nhaines> Cable management is always a hassle.  :)
[02:52] <george__> Yes it is!  We can make it better.  Wait, that's a TV theam for something...  :-)
[02:52] <nhaines> I'll try to get earlier notice of what hardware we're going to have next time.  Getting confirmation from donors was really difficult this year.
[02:52] <nhaines> I appreciate everyone who donated hardware, but it made planning quite stressful.  :)
[02:52] <george__> Yes, understood - except from me of course!   :-)
[02:53] <george__> Perhaps I can help more with that next year?
[02:53] <nhaines> That's a thought!
[02:54] <nhaines> There were just layers of indirection between the donors and the Community Team and me--it wasn't really anyone's fault.  But we'll start the work for next year in the summer, so we should be much more prepared then.
[02:54] <nhaines> Any other thoughts about UbuCon Summit and SCALE?
[02:54]  * lynorian has none
[02:54] <george__> That is a GREAT idea!  I'm in.  I let you know I was going to bring our premier fanless system, and I had things planned, but I had a couple things fall through at the last min ute
[02:55] <george__> As it turned out for the best.  I was able to pick up the banner and clothes.
[02:55] <nhaines> george__: ah, I totally forgot about that.  THANK YOU SO MUCH for doing that.
[02:55] <george__> table clothes
[02:56] <george__> No problem.  I would do anything I could to help.
[02:56] <nhaines> I hurt my knee as I was finishing up packing and was distracted long enough to miss that last trip back to load supplies.
[02:56] <george__> It happens, that is what community is for.
[02:56] <nhaines> So the reason we had a booth banner and tablecloth at the booth (without me having to drive 4 hours on Thursday night and miss the party) was because george__ was nice enough to swing a half hour out of his way to grab them.  :)
[02:57] <george__> Thanks Nathan.  You are more than welcome.  Once again, glad to do it.
[02:57] <nhaines> Okay, thanks to everyone for your feedback.
[02:57] <nhaines> #topic Other business
[02:57] <nhaines> Any other business before we wrap this meeting up?
[02:58] <george__> I can't think of any right now.
[02:59] <nhaines> Okay, thanks everyone for attending.  Our next meeting will be Sunday, April 2nd.
[02:59]  * lynorian has none
[02:59] <nhaines> #endmeeting
[02:59] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Mar 20 02:59:29 2017 UTC.
[02:59] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2017/ubuntu-us-ca.2017-03-20-02.01.moin.txt