[01:54] <xubuntu43w> join
[01:56] <xubuntu43w> I have a compaq presario cn6220 that is running xubuntu 14.04.  It will not load wifi.
[02:34] <xubuntu43w> quit
[02:41] <holstein> xubuntu43w: wont "load" wifi? you mean, you cant connect to wifi?
[02:41] <holstein> !wifi
[02:42] <xubuntu43w> correct
[02:42] <holstein> ^ thats where i start.. i want to learn, the chipset, and see if i need to tweak something in the bios, etc..
[02:42] <holstein> could be, a function key that turns it on.. could be, the hardware isnt functioning..
[02:43] <xubuntu43w> I even changed the wifi
[02:43] <holstein> you mean, you changed wifi adapters? or, wifi hotspots? by moving locations? or, you changed wifi access points by changing your router? or, changed your router settings?
[02:44] <xubuntu43w> wifi light comes on, "sudo lshw" shows wifi
[02:44] <xubuntu43w> yes, the adapter
[02:44] <holstein> well, its the chipset that is the issue.. also, whatever you are plugging the adapters into..
[02:45] <holstein> i would look at the chipset that i have, and search if i need a module for it to support the linux kernel in ubuntu
[02:45] <xubuntu43w> but the wifi works when I boot windows 7 using wintousb
[02:46] <holstein> sure.. but, you were promised windows support for that hardware, so, that only tells you the hardware is functional..
[02:46] <xubuntu43w> I see
[02:46] <holstein> linux isnt preventing that hardware from working.. but, as you know from using windows, you may need to add a driver.. a module, for the device to support that operating system
[02:47] <holstein> i would simply follow the wifi guide, and see what chipset i have..
[02:47] <xubuntu43w> exactly, but I can't find one
[02:47] <holstein> xubuntu43w: you cant find one what? chipset?
[02:47] <xubuntu43w> ne, driver
[02:47] <xubuntu43w> no
[02:48] <holstein> when i open a terminal, and run "lspci", i get the chipset info. i then, can ask for help, here, or #ubuntu, or search for a module
[02:48] <xubuntu43w> good advice
[02:48] <holstein> xubuntu43w: why not open a terminal, and run "lspci" and share info about your chipset?
[02:50] <xubuntu43w> yep, worth a try
[02:50] <holstein> sounds like, you've got 2 to try and make support linux..
[04:32] <backinthegame42> hello everybody
[04:33] <backinthegame42> When I set a static ip via the nm-applet for my wireless connection it freezes my system requiring a hard reset. Any ideas?
[04:45] <TronaldDump> hi everybody
[05:33] <xubuntu96i> hi all
[07:54] <killcrops> Hola alguien con habla hispana?
[08:18] <xubuntu26i> hi
[08:19] <xubuntu26i> i am trying to install xubu from a live usb but its giving an error
[08:19] <xubuntu26i> apt configuration problem
[08:19] <xubuntu26i> disk check -- OK
[08:20]  * xubuntu26i slaps dmzda around a bit with a large fishbot
[09:25] <thoma> Hi. Anyone is struggling with this qt tray icons problem: https://imgur.com/a/6yTC3
[09:26] <thoma> this is spideroak's tray icon, which client is using qt4
[09:27] <thoma> sometimes it's ok like on first screenshoot, but most of time it's broken like it can be seen on second one
[09:27] <thoma> (xubuntu 15.04)
[09:48] <xubuntu41w> Is this bug fixed or will it be fixed in the next version ?   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1319187
[09:59] <knome> xubuntu41w, the bug is only confirmed, so not fixed
[09:59] <xubuntu41w> It shud be fixed, i am tired of waiting. I using another linux bacuas of this bug.
[10:00] <knome> xubuntu41w, just remember everybody working on xubuntu is a volunteer
[10:01] <knome> xubuntu41w, if a bug bothers you very much, you are free to take action yourself as well and fix it
[10:01] <xubuntu41w> I understand.
[10:02] <knome> xubuntu41w, i've commented on the bug right now, pointing to a possible workaround found in the duplicate bug
[12:36] <gianmarco> How can I run tropico5 as root? I tried sudo and then the command to start the game but it says "Cannot run as root user"
[12:40] <knome> gianmarco, the game just told you you can't, why should you?
[12:43] <gianmarco> Because it's a known issue with linux, tropico5 has permission issues and must start as root
[12:43] <gianmarco> otherwise it won't work
[12:43] <gianmarco> I know it sucks because they sold it as linux compatible
[12:43] <knome> if it's a known issue, then i'm sure there are guides on how to make it executable by root
[12:44] <gianmarco> No, that is not explained
[12:44] <knome> by other players.
[12:44] <gianmarco> I tried sudo steam steam://rungameid/245620
[12:44] <gianmarco> but I got an error: "Cannot run as root user"
[12:45] <gianmarco> And I'm the only user using this pc
[12:45] <gianmarco> So I should be admin too
[12:45] <knome> you should likely ask steam support, or sth
[12:45] <knome> admin != root
[12:45] <gianmarco> I already contacted the software house who produced the game but they are not answeringt
[12:45] <gianmarco> and I asked 3 days ago
[12:46] <gianmarco> I guess the lesson is screw videogames, steam and proprietary software.
[12:46] <gianmarco> Too bad I already spent my money.
[12:46] <cfhowlett> gianmarco, poor support from them - but they and/or steam are the best source for fixing it.
[12:46] <knome> i don't think many people can answer your question here either, unless they've played the game
[12:47] <gianmarco> but don't you know why I get the error ""Cannot run as root user"" ? Isn't that related to my system?
[12:47] <knome> no, it's definitely related to either steam or the game
[12:47] <gianmarco> Allright, I'll keep poking them then.
[12:47] <gianmarco> Thanks anyway
[13:38] <melodie> hi
[13:39] <melodie> has someone noticed a bug related to xfconf, preventing icons on the desktop to stay at the same place where they have been moved to ? when you restart the session for example?
[13:41] <flocculant> bug 1335492
[13:42] <melodie> flocculant thanks
[13:43] <melodie> flocculant I'll add a testimonial
[13:49] <thoma> Hi. Anyone is struggling with this qt tray icons problem: https://imgur.com/a/6yTC3
[13:51] <melodie> I don't
[13:51] <melodie> bye
[13:51] <melodie> (I don't use xubuntu, I just install it for a few people )
[13:52] <thoma> sigh. who cares.
[14:47] <xubuntu19w> hello; upgrade got rudely interrupted, now my machine goes into the weeds, anybody here can help?
[14:50] <xubuntu19w> I can boot up to looks like grub, asks me to pick a version, I get the xession login window on an otherwise black background (supposed to be blue with rodent?) and after log in there's only black, with the mouse pointer
[14:50] <cfhowlett> xubuntu19w, upgrade as in 14.04 >> 14.04.1   or 12.04 >> 14.04  ??
[14:50] <xubuntu19w> 12.04 to 14.04
[14:51] <cfhowlett> xubuntu19w, interrupted distro upgrade = unstable, unreliable system.  download the .iso, make a USB, clean install
[14:52] <xubuntu19w> that will kill all my files etc?
[14:53] <cfhowlett> ??? you mean your saved data?  in your /home?
[14:57] <xubuntu19w> yes /home and also tons of installations in /opt and /usr/*
[15:07] <cfhowlett> !home | xubuntu19w
[15:14] <xubuntu19w> my head hurts, but thanks, I'll give it a stab...
[15:35] <sergio-br2> ochosi, I'm merging that PR
[15:35] <sergio-br2> looks good
[15:39] <sergio-br2> btw, I'll try to help a little more in the project :p
[19:15] <xubuntu31w> How can i install the NTP support to make the clock syncronized with internet ? When i say yest to install the NTP it will not let install.
[19:20] <bekks> xubuntu31w: So which command do you use to "say yes to install"?
[19:21] <xubuntu31w> I goto settings time and date settings. In configuration i set it to sync with internet.
[19:22] <krytarik> xubuntu31w: LP bug 1270090 - and there you go: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/NTP.html
[19:24] <xubuntu31w> I guess it is fixed after 14.04.
[19:24] <xubuntu31w> I amusing 14.04.3
[19:24] <krytarik> xubuntu31w: Yes - 15.04 more specifically.
[19:26] <xubuntu31w> Is it works if i do it in terminal ?
[19:26] <krytarik> Should, yes.
[19:29] <xubuntu31w> I think it works now.
[20:07] <xubuntu1> folks how does one determine their cpu 32/64-bit ness?
[20:08] <xubuntu1> cat /proc/cpuinfo shows "32 bits physical, 48 bits virtual"
[20:09] <holstein> xubuntu1: i usually just load the live 64bit iso, and if it works, i install.. since, thats what i prefer. but,  http://askubuntu.com/questions/37159/is-my-processor-64-or-32-bit
[20:09] <holstein> ideally, from windows, you can look.. otherwise, since you need to load a live iso to see if the CPU is either, just loading a 64bit iso will give you the info you need..
[20:09] <xubuntu1> holstein: thanks. this is an old netbook, so I assume probably 32-bit. running xubuntu 13 atm.
[20:10] <xubuntu1> I'll use the link you posted.
[20:10] <holstein> basically, TLDR, is run "lscpu"
[20:11] <holstein> for me, the amount or ram can dictate.. and, on an older machine, it wont matter, at all.. anyways
[20:11] <xubuntu1> floating point exception. cored dumpted, lol
[20:11] <xubuntu1> firefox
[20:11] <xubuntu1> doh
[20:11] <holstein> its not like, you are going to be doing any compiling that you will benefit from 64bit.. using multiple cores.. or, using over 4 GB's of ram.. etc
[20:12] <xubuntu1> it's a netbook. it will barely run firefox.
[20:12] <xubuntu1> and if firefox keeps "improving", it won't even run tht.
[20:12] <holstein> sure.. but, 64bit vs 32bit.. its not going to address that
[20:12] <holstein> and, thats likely more related to flash, or the web content..
[20:13] <xubuntu1> well, I was just agreeing that it's not going to be doing a lot of work anyway, so it's not like more ram or more cores are needed.
[20:13] <holstein> what would i do? simply load the live 3bit iso, and dont rely on web sources for the testing of compatibility.. see that audio works, and NIC.. etc
[20:13] <xubuntu1> xubuntu 13 works just fine. I just wanted to redo the system clean.
[20:13] <xubuntu1> so I know drivers will be all good.
[20:14] <holstein> well, you actually dont know that, til you load the newer kernel..
[20:14] <xubuntu1> well, that's true. I have had issues just updatin the kernel before.
[20:14] <holstein> 13.04 and 13.10 are EOL, though.. so, i would move on to 14.04, or 15.04..
[20:14] <xubuntu1> yeah, all debian based distro becoming "obsolete" after 1yr is becoming a big chore.
[20:15] <holstein> ?
[20:15] <holstein> 14.04 xubuntu is supported for 3 years.. and the main ubuntu repos for 5
[20:15] <xubuntu1> you have to keep re-installing your OS. even tho they say, "you can upgrade!!", but all documentation says, "upgrade isn't relaiable. re-install"
[20:15] <xubuntu1> yeah, the LTS ones are a nice break.
[20:15] <holstein> so, the 14.04 repos will not be "obsolete" til 2019..
[20:15] <xubuntu1> I don't think non-canonical distro have started doing that much
[20:15] <Unit193> xubuntu1: I upgrade, been doing so for a little.
[20:15] <holstein> !eolupgrade
[20:16] <holstein> you can, if you are running 13.10, just upgrade to 14.04..
[20:16] <xubuntu1> Unit193: I did a few times it just broke a few things. and then people say oh re-install.
[20:16] <sergio-br2> what's the default size of the top panel?
[20:16] <holstein> you can *always* reinstall...
[20:16] <xubuntu1> upgrades always leave something b0rked.
[20:16] <sergio-br2> the battery icon is strange for a while
[20:16] <xubuntu1> as soon as my torrent is done, I'll do the 15.
[20:16] <Unit193> xubuntu1: They're better than they used to be, that's for sure.  But Sigma's been going fine since 11.04.
[20:16] <holstein> xubuntu1: not *always*.. though, you can prefer and do a fresh install.. i prefer it as well
[20:17] <xubuntu1> holstein: like 8.1 to win10 auto upgrade... eh, I want a clean system.
[20:17] <holstein> xubuntu1: this is xubuntu.. EOL 13.10, potentially, if thats what you are running, to 14.04.. which, is a well tested path
[20:17] <xubuntu1> now, I"m assuming I don't have to burn the iso to a usb.  Now, I'm re-installing to have a minimal env setup.
[20:19] <holstein> sure.. go for it
[20:19] <xubuntu1> so can I just mount the iso and run the installer?
[20:19] <holstein> to reinstall.. you'll do *exactly* what it is for a normal installation
[20:19] <holstein> !install
[20:19] <holstein> what do i do? download the latest iso for the version i prefer, and make either a USB stick, or DVD.. depending on what the hardware boots..
[20:19] <xubuntu1> ok, let me quickly go read the link. brb.
[20:20] <xubuntu1> ah, I do a usb stick but lately all the sticks I've been using have been crapping out. just need to buy a few ore.
[20:20] <xubuntu1> *more
[20:27] <xubuntu1> alright rebooting to install. thanks for the help guys...
[20:39] <ochosi> sergio-br2: ty and wb


[13:52] <lisandro> https://blog.qt.io/blog/2018/05/16/code-contributions-via-bug-reports-forum-posts/
[13:52] <lisandro> Very good news for everyone
[20:15] <valorie> indeed
[20:16] <valorie> I wasn't aware that they were ignoring patches, but it makes some of the complaints I've heard make sense
[20:57] <lisandro> and actually thiago is going to keep ignoring them
[20:58] <lisandro> and I think his reasoning is right
 I would call this ‘he does not get the legal right to apply these patches’. The same applies to us too.
[21:04] <lubot2> For reference: http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2018-May/032715.html
[21:07] <valorie> imo I would trust Thiago with almost anything code-related
[21:26]  * lisandro too
[21:26] <lisandro> so, all in all, we should try to avoid people sending patches to bugs
[21:26] <lisandro> even if it's still a pain


[11:04] <gry> [21:03] f44336MrSassyPants joined #ubuntu
[11:05] <gry> this lovely nick dud not speak yet, but looks sus
[11:05] <gry> did not


[03:36] <AnoniNeko2569999> I have a question about the taskbar in KDE plasma desktop and an ugly change in spacing that I want to revert for my machine after I installed the Kubuntu 21.10 and 22.04 updates. Is there any way to upload images to provide better context of what I'm talking about?
[03:40] <arraybolt3> AnoniNeko2569999: Easiest way is to upload to Imgur and paste the link here.
[03:41] <AnoniNeko2569999> ah, then I already have the images uploaded on discord
[03:42] <arraybolt3> Great, as long as you can see them without a Discord account, I should be able to see it.
[03:51] <AnoniNeko2569999> this is a question about KDE Plasma Desktop
[03:51] <AnoniNeko2569999> in Kubuntu 21.04, my taskbar looks like this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748610914663661579/981392294450196490/unknown.png
[03:51] <AnoniNeko2569999> after updating to Kubuntu 22.04, my taskbar looks like this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/748610914663661579/981392096969785344/unknown.png
[03:51] <AnoniNeko2569999> notice the "Color Picker" and "Battery and Brightness" widget icons.
[03:51] <AnoniNeko2569999> the first screenshot is on my PC that I haven't updated yet, which has an external monitor and grid power, so the "battery and brightness" widget was removed for redundancy, that's normal.
[03:51] <AnoniNeko2569999> notice the padding or margin inside the widgets (note that when I hover over them, the outline goes outside the margin)
[03:58] <AnoniNeko2569999> oops was there an error sending my multi-line message?
[03:58] <arraybolt3> Don't send multiline messages.
[03:58] <arraybolt3> Put them in a pastebin and send the link.
[03:58] <arraybolt3> That avoids flooding the channel.
[03:58] <arraybolt3> https://pastebin.com/
[03:59] <arraybolt3> (Sorry, didn't mean to sound terse, reading over it, that sounded awful!)
[04:00] <arraybolt3> So that padding around the Battery and Brightness widget didn't used to be there?
[04:00] <AnoniNeko2569999> okay I'll send it in https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/ ... here's my paste https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/kjXgZdTrWY/
[04:00] <AnoniNeko2569999> yeah, the icon used to be larger, the same width as the larger circle
[04:00] <AnoniNeko2569999> both taskbars are 100px wide
[04:01] <arraybolt3> Ah, I see it. So basically you just want to make the icons bigger?
[04:01] <AnoniNeko2569999> yeah
[04:02] <AnoniNeko2569999> the icon size is directly proportional to the width of the taskbar, but I want to keep the taskbar at 100px wide while making the icons bigger
[04:04] <arraybolt3> Hmm, well I can replicate the problem on my system, but I don't see a way to adjust the size! Ack! I'll dig around a bit and see if this can be fixed, and if not, I'll send a feature request to allow adjusting widget size within the taskbar.
[04:05] <AnoniNeko2569999> maybe it's not just within the taskbar, I think it's just widgets in general
[04:06] <AnoniNeko2569999> nevermind, the widgets look identical between the two versions when outside the taskbar
[04:08] <arraybolt3> Yeah, outside the taskbar the Color Picker widget resizes just fine.
[04:09] <AnoniNeko2569999> similarly, the size of the system tray icons can only be set to "small", there are no other size options
[04:09] <AnoniNeko2569999> but that's not a problem for me, I just think it's a similar feature that could be implemented in parallel
[04:11] <arraybolt3> Yeah, it looks like this feature is missing but would be useful to have. I'll open a feature request and see if it can be made to happen. However, due to stability concerns, it's unlikely a feature request will make it into an existing LTS release (e.g., Kubuntu 22.04), so even if they do implement the feature, you might have to wait for Kubuntu 22.10 or even 23.04 to come out before it finally makes it. (Which is crummy, since that means you might
[04:11] <arraybolt3> have to wait for a YEAR to get a problem fixed!)
[04:12] <arraybolt3> In the event that my feature request goes through, you might be able to get it earlier by switching to a rolling releae distro like Manjaro, openSUSE, or the like.
[04:13] <arraybolt3> (Or if you prefer Ubuntu-like distros, KDE neon might also give you a new feature faster.)
[04:16] <AnoniNeko2569999> list of widgets affected by the particular sizing problem I was originally annoyed with: "Color Picker", "Battery and Brightness", and "Backup Status" ... I couldn't find any other widgets that are different sized between the versions.
[04:17] <arraybolt3[m]> Got it. I will check to see if KDE neon behaves any differently, and if not, I will open a feature request. If you stick around, I'll give you the link to my feature request once it's written (though it make take me a couple hours or longer, depending on my download speed).
[04:19] <arraybolt3> (That arraybolt3[m] is me, just on a different computer.)
[04:21] <AnoniNeko2569999> it seems like in order to stick around I have to keep the tab open without reloading it
[04:25] <arraybolt3> Hmm. Well... I know from experience the web chat will just disconnect every once in a while...
[04:25] <arraybolt3> I could send you the finished feature request over email. I'll direct message you my email, and then you email me back so I can send you the link.
[04:27] <AnoniNeko2569999> I already sent you a reddit message as your github profile stated ("Reddit (u/ArrayBolt3) <-- Preferred for most stuff")
[04:27] <arraybolt3> Fantastic. I'll be able to chat you back the link.
[04:28] <AnoniNeko2569999> Awesome.
 how to install yet another magic lamp in kubuntu 22.04
[06:26] <oerheks> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/10/magic-lamp-effect-gnome-extension says look here >>
[06:26] <oerheks> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/3740/compiz-alike-magic-lamp-effect/
[06:27] <oerheks> seems like a lot of issues with it..
 i m using kde
[06:27] <oerheks> good luck!
 not gnome
[06:28] <oerheks> oops, https://store.kde.org/p/1279059/
[06:28] <oerheks> seems like it has issues too, no clue there
 https://github.com/zzag/kwin-effects-yet-another-magic-lamp
 i m trying this method
 CMake Error: The source directory "/home/user" does not appear to contain CMakeLists.txt.
 but lastly show me this
 why kde store not available yet another magic lamp
[06:36] <oerheks> as it seems full of bugs, so no packagfing team gives priority
[08:19] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:05] <user|17> Hello, I'm trying to install the exfat packages so I can use my external hard drive but the terminal doesn?t find them. Can anyone help?
[09:08] <user|17> I tried with sudo apt install exfat-fuse exfat-utils
[09:11] <oerheks> user|17, on what linux version?
[09:11] <oerheks> currently, ubuntu 22.04 has exfat in the kernel?
[12:06] <arkachur> n
[12:08] <jaffna> Bonjour à tous, merci de m'accueillir..
[12:08] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[15:40] <user|71> Recently I practically lose my Wi-Fi network connection on Kubuntu 20.04. The widget doesn't show it's disconnected; even I disconnect and reconnect to the router, and it says I'm connected; but I can't even ping the router. I don't suspect router, because of all other gadgets working. I actually don't know where to look or which log to check to
[15:41] <user|71> get a lead on what's going on.
[15:42] <oerheks> reboot your router with weird connection issues?
 How ti upgrade the not upgraded packages
[15:43] <user|71> oerheks All other gadgets and laptops are fine with the router. Even this laptop doesn't face this problem on MS Windows. It seems to be a recent thing on my Kubuntu.
[15:44] <user|71> I want to find a relevant log, so at least I can search about it, or point finger at something on that base.
[15:50] <oerheks> maybe your issue is that you booted in windows, and your router still has that lease connected to that ip
[15:50] <oerheks> journalctrl
 Just repeating
 How to upgrade the not upgraded packages
[16:42] <user|71> oerheks No, there is much time between my Windows boots. I mostly use Linux. Also the Linux starts with good connection; it occurs after a while.
[16:42] <user|71> thanks about journalctl
[18:50] <lsd|2> tajun powiedział że widz jest gamoniem
[18:54] <genii> !pl
[19:36] <faLUKE> !pl
[19:36] <faLUKE> !it
[19:39] <genii> faLUKE: Yes, there is generally one for which corresponding Ubuntu Local Community Teams (LoCos) have their own channels
[23:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Oov: "sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade" ought to do it.


[00:19] <lifeless> whoever is trying to and
[00:19] <lifeless> *land*
[00:19] <lifeless> PQMException: 'Failed to verify signature: gpgv exited with error code 2'
[00:19] <lifeless> please be signing, or update your key with losa
[00:20] <StevenK> Or it could be OOPS tools branches have PQM subscribed again
[00:20]  * lifeless checks
[00:21] <lifeless> nope
[00:21] <lifeless> https://code.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/python-oops-tools/trunk
[00:21] <lifeless> besides, this isn't the super-fast-busy-loop that normally creates :)
[00:21] <StevenK> Yes, wgrant had that one fixed last night
[00:22] <lifeless> what was subscribed /
[00:22] <wgrant> launchpad-pqm
[00:22] <wgrant> The branch owner.
[00:22] <lifeless> bahhh
[00:24] <lifeless> ugh wikipedia
[00:24] <lifeless> why do I click on links.
[00:54] <wgrant> StevenK: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/bug-876171/+merge/79639
[00:56] <StevenK> wgrant: IDistroSeries._getAll{Sources,Binaries} do not take a status argument
[00:57] <StevenK> Oh, sorry, misreading
[00:57] <wgrant> StevenK: I would hope not.
[00:57] <wgrant> Right.
[00:57] <StevenK> There's a .find() hiding in those calls
[00:57] <wgrant> I am working around our lack of a PublicationCollection,.
[00:59] <StevenK> wgrant: Ignoring my misunderstanding -- r=me
[00:59] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Around?
[00:59] <wallyworld_> wgrant: yep
[01:00] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Bug #876533
[01:00] <_mup_> Bug #876533: changing the values in Comboboxes on my code page does not update the branch-list shown <regression> <ui> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/876533 >
[01:01]  * wallyworld_ still waiting for lp
[01:02] <wallyworld_> wgrant: ah, ok. it works with the ff on
[01:02] <wallyworld_> but not off
[01:02] <wallyworld_> i'll fix it
[01:04] <wgrant> Thanks.
[01:22] <wallyworld_> wgrant: wanna review it, and i'll get it in the pipeline https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/broken-branch-listing-876533/+merge/79640
[01:23] <wgrant> Oh god, Julian's domination change has landed :(
[01:23] <wgrant> It will be months before we can deploy!
[01:23] <wallyworld_> what's the domination change?
[01:24] <StevenK> Utter madness
[01:24] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Shouldn't that be unconditonal?
[01:24] <wallyworld_> wgrant: nope
[01:24] <StevenK> Don't dominate arch-indep binaries if any sources build them
[01:24] <wgrant> Or does the post_refresh_hook fire on load too?
[01:24] <wallyworld_> if the ff is there, the setup is done in the js
[01:24] <wallyworld_> that's why i didn't notice it
[01:24] <wallyworld_> because it works fine for us
[01:24] <wgrant>                     post_refresh_hook: hookUpFilterSubmission
[01:25] <wallyworld_> yep
[01:25] <wgrant> That's the only call I can see.
[01:25] <wgrant> So either post_refresh_hook is a lie, or it's buggy.
[01:25] <wallyworld_> wgrant: nope, that bit is behind the feature flag
[01:25] <wallyworld_> so we need to provide a call when the ff is off
[01:25] <wgrant> I realise.
[01:25] <wallyworld_> that's the basis of the bug
[01:25] <wgrant> But does post_refresh_hook fire on page load?
[01:26] <wallyworld_> no, only if the ff is on
[01:26] <wgrant> It looks like it should be broken when the ff is on as well.
[01:26] <wgrant> That's what I mean.
[01:26] <wallyworld_> otherwise that bit of javascript is not executed
[01:26] <wgrant> Does post_refresh_hook fire on page load?
[01:26] <wgrant> Assuming it's configured.
[01:26] <wallyworld_> yes
[01:26] <wgrant> Ahhhh
[01:26] <wgrant> How confusing.
[01:26] <wallyworld_> and it works fine then
[01:26] <wgrant> OK.
[01:27] <wallyworld_> it will be better when the ff is taken away and it's the same for everyone
[01:27] <wgrant> Right, it's just very confusing that post_refresh_hook is executed on load too.
[01:27] <wgrant> Approved.
[01:28] <wallyworld_> thanks.  post_refresh_hook is not executed though unless ff is on
[01:28] <lifeless> anyone up for an oops_amqp revu ?
[01:28] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Clearly.
[01:28] <wgrant> But it's confusing that it doesn't just apply to refreshes.
[01:30] <wallyworld_> perhaps. the js module calls the hookup when it is done loading and also on refresh
[01:30] <wallyworld_> ie whenever the html form changes
[01:31] <lifeless> https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/python-oops-amqp/0.0.2/+merge/79637
[01:31] <lifeless> ^ hint, hint
[01:34] <wallyworld_> lifeless: i'll have a look but am  working get a web service test to run properly. i'll need a bit of time to ramp up on the ampq stuff. can i do it a bit later?
[01:35] <lifeless> wallyworld_: well, I want low turnaround so that I can use it in the next project along
[01:35] <wallyworld_> ah, right
[01:36] <wallyworld_> i'll look now
[01:36] <lifeless> wallyworld_: tuesday wgrant is on OCR
[01:36] <lifeless> wgrant: ^ ;)
[01:36] <wgrant> Sorry, just developing a test case to revert Julian's revision.
[01:37] <lifeless> wallyworld_: you're working on a critical regression, I think you should focus on that :)
[01:37] <wallyworld_> lifeless: already fixed
[01:37] <wallyworld_> and in ec2
[01:37] <lifeless> ah cool
[01:37] <lifeless> in which case, thank you!
[01:37] <wallyworld_> just a few lines of tales
[01:37] <StevenK> wgrant: You want to revert it?
[01:38] <wgrant> StevenK: It's far easier to QA if it's reverted. Plus I think it's buggy.
[01:38] <lifeless> wgrant: julian didn't dogfoodinate it before landing ?
[01:38] <wgrant> He did.
[01:41] <lifeless> unity needs a cat-safe mode
[01:41] <lifeless> 37 screenshots later..
[01:41] <mwhudson> :)
[01:41] <lifeless> all with the same second timestamp
[01:54] <lifeless> argh, this use-oops-twisted branch is becoming a branch of doom
[01:54] <lifeless> fix one test failure, 30 more pop out
[01:59] <wgrant> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/711550/
[01:59] <wgrant> StevenK: That test now fails.
[01:59] <wgrant> Passes at devel-3
[01:59] <wgrant> Think that's revert-worthy?
[02:02] <StevenK> wgrant: The source is not superseded?
[02:02] <StevenK> IE, 1.0's source is not
[02:02] <wgrant> Ah, sorry. The binary isn't.
[02:03] <wgrant> Arch-indep can no longer supersede arch-specific, and vice-versa.
[02:03] <StevenK> Hmmmm
[02:03] <wgrant> I think that's pretty clearly undesirable.
[02:03] <StevenK> I think you should add that test and then revert Julian's branch
[02:03] <StevenK> Or vice-versa
[02:03] <wgrant> Other way around, but yes.
[02:03] <wgrant> Thanks.
[02:13] <nigelb> StevenK: \o/
[02:13] <nigelb> Purple Assasins!
[02:13] <nigelb> I lol'd
[02:14] <lifeless> wallyworld_: so for clarity, you're doing that review, or wgrant is ?
[02:15] <wallyworld_> lifeless: sorry, i assumed wgrant was
[02:15] <wgrant> I'll be done with the revert+test in a few minutes.
[02:15] <wgrant> Can do it then.;
[02:15] <lifeless> wallyworld_: I think we tied ourselves up in knots :)
[02:15] <lifeless> wallyworld_: wgrant: ok, wgrant it is
[02:15] <wallyworld_> ouch
[02:18] <lifeless> bwah I missed one more pending change. ><
[02:26] <lifeless> right, pushed. *now* we're cooking. Vit gahs
[02:30]  * wgrant glares disapprovingly at lifeless' implicit relative imports.
[02:31] <wgrant> lifeless: Is r10 relevant to anything at all?
[02:33] <lifeless> wgrant: very
[02:34] <wgrant> Oh?
[02:34] <lifeless> wgrant: fallback when amqp is down is a little cronscript that reads from the datedir repo and sends to amqp
[02:34] <wgrant> It seems entirely unrelated to the rest of the branch.
[02:35] <lifeless> the branches theme is 'stuff I learnt while hacking elsewhere'
[02:35] <wgrant> That's slightly unpleasant.
[02:35] <wgrant> But OK.
[02:35] <wgrant> __init__ no longer sets self.stopping. Deliberate?
[02:35] <lifeless> yeah
[02:36] <lifeless> calling run_forever twice should work
[02:36] <wgrant> Also, are you sure I can't send a message with a body of None?
[02:36] <wgrant> You probably can't, but you never know.
[02:36] <lifeless> moderately
[02:36] <lifeless> can make it a random nonce / guard it if you like
[02:36] <lifeless> I'm not sure if its needed or not
[02:37] <lifeless> I've seen no reference to optional message bodies in amqp
[02:40] <wgrant> lifeless: Won't the retry logic not work if it goes away more than two minutes after the connection was established?
[02:42] <lifeless> grah, you are right
[02:42] <lifeless> I will fix
[02:42] <wgrant> Thanks.
[02:55] <wgrant> lifeless: Reviewed, with a few more comments.
[02:58]  * wgrant unsubscribes canonical-launchpad-branches from review mail on python-oops-amqp
[02:58] <wgrant> Since PQM is unhappy.
[03:07] <lifeless> wgrant: you know that refactoring that (mild) duplicate keeps the line count in each test as long due to PEP8 line wrapping rules...
[03:07] <wgrant> lifeless: But it's going to be much clearer.
[03:09] <StevenK> wgrant: The revert and test have landed?
[03:09] <wgrant> StevenK: yes.
[03:09] <StevenK> Excellent.
[03:12] <lifeless> wgrant: actually, its a rabbit hole into that testtools 'function' object has no attribute getDetails
[03:12] <lifeless> wgrant: so I want to defer it; I've added a fixture but using it -> death spiral
[03:12] <wgrant> lifeless: at least turn it into a helper method.
[03:12] <wgrant> On the test class.
[03:13] <lifeless> wgrant: so I think that that hurts clarity
[03:13] <lifeless> most of those tests have two distinct actors
[03:13] <lifeless> the channel and the queue
[03:13] <wgrant> All the present boilerplate certainly doesn't aid clarity.
[03:13] <lifeless> right
[03:13] <lifeless> so I wrote a fixture to get a channel
[03:13] <lifeless> and something is wrong and its going to be a yak shaving session to figure it out
[03:14] <lifeless> which needs doing(but not now)
[03:15] <lifeless> hmm, I have a possible handle, poking
[03:18] <lifeless> wgrant: +70 lines -48 lines
[03:18] <lifeless> wgrant: (Which is why this was below my tolerance threshold)
[03:18] <wgrant> How!?
[03:19] <lifeless> pastebin.com/bTKHC5wN
[03:21] <wgrant> You could collapse the channel = channel_fixture.channel into the previous statement.
[03:21] <lifeless> +22 from the helper, docs, _all_ entry
[03:21] <wgrant> And I was imagining the QueueFixture would go into the same helper method.
[03:21] <wgrant> Since it's also shared between every test.
[03:21] <wgrant> Possibly even the publisher as well.
[03:21] <lifeless> way too much hidden in that
[03:22] <lifeless> however collapsing the assignment is good
[03:22] <wgrant> Hm? Why can't the test just start with a queue name and publisher as instance variables?
[03:22] <lifeless> I've done that plenty before
[03:22] <lifeless> so I'm going to play the ETIRED card for sympathy :P
[03:23] <nigelb> Sympathy card, well played.
[03:24] <wgrant> So, all the tests need a channel and a queue, and there's nothing test-specific about that setup.
[03:24] <wgrant> Pull it out into setUp(). Problem solved.
[03:25] <wallyworld_> why do i get a 'AttributeError: 'thread._local' object has no attribute 'interaction' error when i try and use 'with person_logged_in(xxx)'? i've tried a few things but can't seem to fix it
[03:25] <lifeless> wgrant: Expensive things being in setUp is a mispattern
[03:26] <wallyworld_> surely it matter not that there's no interaction before i try and log in
[03:26] <lifeless> wgrant: they are out-of-site, out-of-mind
[03:26] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: full traceback?
[03:26] <lifeless> wgrant: I much prefer seeing whats going on
[03:26] <wallyworld_> Traceback (most recent call last):
[03:26] <wallyworld_>   File "/home/ian/projects/lp-branches/devel-sandbox/lib/lp/bugs/model/tests/test_bugtask.py", line 2390, in test_delete_bugtask
[03:26] <wallyworld_>     with person_logged_in(db_bug.owner):
[03:26] <wallyworld_> AttributeError: 'thread._local' object has no attribute 'interaction'
[03:26] <wgrant> lifeless: Put them in a fixtures class attribute, or something, then?
[03:26] <wgrant> This is currently really cluttering boilerplate.
[03:26] <lifeless> +48-36 now, which is much better
[03:26] <wgrant> I want it killed.
[03:26] <wgrant> Somehow.
[03:27] <lifeless> wgrant: its not
[03:27] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: bet it's the security check on bug.owner :/
[03:27] <lifeless> wgrant: yes its the same, but they are the essential actors in these tests
[03:27] <lifeless> wgrant: which is different to boilerplate that isn't an essential actor, and which I have great joy encapsulating and hiding
[03:27] <wgrant> It's like 12 consecutive lines that's shared between every test.
[03:28] <wgrant> They are essential actors for this *class of test*.
[03:28] <lifeless> 3, 5 if you could the publisher (which has different params sometimes)
[03:28] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: you mean i have to remove the proxy?
[03:28] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: i've used with person_logged_in(bugtask.owner) ok
[03:29] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: i don]'
[03:29] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: i don't know, it's just a guess :-)
[03:29]  * wallyworld_ tries it
[03:29] <lifeless> wgrant: I've pushed up rev 12
[03:32] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: that got me one step closer thank you. it would have been nice if the error said what was wrong though
[03:33] <wallyworld_> as in authorised attribute access or whatever
[03:33] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: note that if you inherit from TestCaseWithFactory, you are logged in anonymously in setUp
[03:33] <StevenK> Like Zope is going to be nice.
[03:34] <mwhudson> handling security proxied objects without an interaction is like some metaphor involving explosives
[03:35] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: yes, but before the bit that was failing i was doing a web service call and other stuff so the initial login was gone i think
[03:35] <mwhudson> ah
[03:35] <mwhudson> that's a bit naughty
[03:35] <mwhudson> you could try restoreInteraction()
[03:35] <mwhudson> that always seemed a bit magical
[03:35] <StevenK> Ah, webservice tests are special
[03:35] <wallyworld_> ok. the test case extends WebServiceTestCase. i have followed what others have done i think
[03:35] <lifeless> s/c/th/
[03:35] <StevenK> You can't mix factory calls with webservice calls
[03:36] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: without wanting to be rude
[03:36] <wallyworld_> you need to make actory calls to set up the objects
[03:36] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: the "others" might not have understood what was going on :-p
[03:36] <lifeless> so, webservice calls wipe the interaction
[03:36] <StevenK> Create or grab *everything* from the factory/zope, logout() and then deal with only the webservice
[03:36] <lifeless> I think someone has a patch up to fix that
[03:36] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: clearly i don't quite either :-)
[03:36] <lifeless> StevenK: or login again
[03:37] <wallyworld_> and then if i want to look at the state of the db after making the ws calls, i need to logout and login again?
[03:37] <StevenK> I prefer my way. Less chance of blowing off both legs
[03:37] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: yeah, i have an email i need to write about that, come to think of it
[03:37] <StevenK> wallyworld_: Yes
[03:37] <lifeless> wgrant: what do you think?
[03:38] <wgrant> lifeless: Oh, the diff is updated?
[03:38] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: StevenK: thanks for the help.
[03:38] <lifeless> wgrant: yes, or loggerhead :)
[03:38] <wgrant> 401	+ queue = self.useFixture(
[03:39] <wgrant> 402	+ QueueFixture(channel, self.getUniqueString))
[03:39] <wgrant> Does that really not fit on one line?
[03:39] <lifeless> wgrant: bah, I missed one - all the others were shuffled by channel_fixture
[03:39] <lifeless> s/1/3/
[03:40] <lifeless> no, really just the one
[03:41] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: where is the code that makes a webservice request?
[03:41] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: it's local. i'll push up something in a sec
[03:42] <wgrant> lifeless: You could also s/connection_factory/conn_factory/ in the test and get the ChannelFixture stuff down to a single line.
[03:42] <wallyworld_> as it turns out, calloing logout before webservice_for_person doesn't work
[03:42] <StevenK> What traceback do you get?
[03:42] <lifeless> wgrant: when we feel the urge to do that, its a hint that PEP8 is wrong :)
[03:42] <wallyworld_> 'no local interaction', no real traceback
[03:43] <wgrant> PEP 8 is not relevant here. Every coding standard ever is.
[03:43] <wgrant> It's not an indentation problem, it's a line length problem.
[03:43] <lifeless> precisely
[03:43] <lifeless> anyhow, yes I could do that
[03:43] <lifeless> however, the focus right now is on this patch
[03:44] <wgrant> It looks more reasonable now.
[03:44] <StevenK> wallyworld_: If you're doing webservice_for_person(bugtask.owner) that wants you logged in
[03:44] <StevenK> You need to grab out the person beforehand
[03:45] <StevenK> owner = bugtask.owner ; logout(); webservice_for_person(owner)
[03:45] <wgrant> lifeless: Approved.
[03:45] <StevenK> That's what I meant by *everything*
[03:45] <lifeless> wgrant: thanks
[03:45]  * StevenK heads out for about 0
[03:45] <StevenK> Sigh
[03:46] <StevenK> s/\(0\)/3\1/
[03:47]  * wgrant is tempted to make LP mailing lists strip text/html parts.
[03:47] <lifeless> s/.*/bye/ 'Fixed'
[03:52] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: so this gets passed the ws stuff but the delete doesn't 'stick' so the last assert fails https://pastebin.canonical.com/54477/
[03:55] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: i hope those commit() calls aren't really required
[03:55] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: the first one is
[03:56] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: i dunno what's going on though, maybe turn on statement logging in postgres?
[03:56] <wallyworld_> or else the ws cannt see the newly created bug
[03:56] <mwhudson> uh really?
[03:56] <mwhudson> delightful
[03:56] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: yeah, doing the sql logging now. nb the normal unit tests for this all work
[03:57] <wallyworld_> i've tried removing the first commit and it blows up with a 'not found' error or similar
[03:57] <mwhudson> oh right, webservicecaller makes an actual http request
[03:58] <mwhudson> well, not quite
[04:00] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: i'm in well over my head now
[04:00] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: np. thanks for your input
[05:07]  * wallyworld_ goes to get flat tyre fixed
[05:08] <StevenK> The one on your car, or your belly?
[05:09] <wallyworld_> ha
[05:09] <wallyworld_> smart-ass
[05:09] <wallyworld_> the new one on my car that went flat overnight :-(
[05:20] <nigelb> wallyworld_: clearly you need to get it exchanged ;)
[05:54] <stub> lifeless: So a quick scan of your oops/ampq work worries me a bit due to the amount of crap you need to use Rabbit sanely. I'll have a better scan later, but maybe ZeroMQ has less of an implementation burden than I thought (service registry etc.)
[05:57] <lifeless> can you expand on what you mean ?
[05:59] <stub> lifeless: Reconnection logic, EPIPE handling, local queuing - that sort of stuff. That seems flaky with the Rabbit libs making us do the work. In ZeroMQ we get that for free but need to implement some sort of exchange (such as a service registry to allow peer-peer, or a cookbook broker).
[06:00] <lifeless> stub: could you do an 'approve' vote on https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/python-oops-tools/amqp/+merge/79644 - I think tarmac is not setup for self-review yet
[06:01] <stub> done
[06:01] <lifeless> fingers crossed
[06:01] <lifeless> stub: so, we're very close to done with a working rabbit; I think you have a pretty solid point though
[06:02] <wgrant> How is 0mq better on those fronts?
[06:02] <wgrant> I don't see how it can do local queueing.
[06:02] <lifeless> wgrant: you give it a disk path and it spools to disk if the endpoints are unavailable
[06:02] <lifeless> wgrant: up to a threshold you set, at which point it either errors or discards (again, you set the policy)
[06:03] <stub> So messages are retransmitted when it gets back up. But the local storage is not durable, so you lose it if the process terminates.
[06:03] <lifeless> wgrant: only applies to pubsub obviously
[06:03] <stub> But it is free
[06:03] <wgrant> Right, we need durability across process restarts.
[06:04] <stub> There are a lot of 'we needs'. What I'm wondering is if the stuff we need to implement for rabbit is going to be more work or less reliable than the stuff we need to implement for an alternative like ZeroMQ.
[06:05] <stub> I've got rose coloured glasses on for ZeroMQ though, as I've not used it in anger and haven't gone over the ampq-oops work seriously to see how much of it we would have needed to do with ZeroMQ too.
[06:05] <lifeless> stub: disk swaps don't reset on proces death do they ?
[06:06] <lifeless> ah, it does
[06:06] <lifeless> 'The SWAP file is not recoverable, so if a publisher dies and restarts, it will lose data that was in its transmit buffers, and that was in the network I/O buffers.'
[06:07] <lifeless> stub: so, catching EPIPE is pretty shallow; it would be nice not to. We'd still need (for our use case) offline persistent queuing
[06:07] <stub> I think it has to do with the runtime state (next time you restart, your connections might be completely different and incompatible), and maybe security (if your spool is durable, you need to worry about who can read it rather than keep it in a private temporary file)
[06:14] <lifeless> makes sense to me
[06:16] <lifeless> stub: OTOH I think its well encapsulated in oops-amqp (I'm about to cleanup the stuff in my useoops lp branch to use the 0.0.2 improvements)
[06:16] <lifeless> stub: also once we are on -a- mq, I think its quite easy to transition, message-pair at a time
[06:17] <stub> I suspect we will want to move some of this encapsulation to lazr.amqp or something for reuse. lazr.ipc? lazr.messaging?
[06:18] <stub> Yer. I doubt I could argue a switch to ZeroMQ at this point. The Rabbit APIs bug me though. Weird terminology and promote ugly code.
[06:18] <lifeless> yeah. There is some stuff in lp.servicces.messsaging, but its a little to keen to be zope integrated to be reusable (plus some of it doesn't carry its own weight)
[06:19] <lifeless> I so want the compose-key-combo for theta
[06:19] <lifeless> erm, not theta
[06:19] <lifeless> the greek letter whose name escapes me that they use
[06:20] <wgrant> ø?
[06:20] <lifeless> yes
[06:20] <wgrant> Ø
[06:20] <wgrant> Alt+/ O
[06:20] <lifeless> no
[06:20] <wgrant> s/Alt/Compose/
[06:20] <lifeless> ø woo
[06:20] <lifeless> yeah, its my left windows key
[06:21] <wgrant> I use RAlt, since LSuper is for Unity.
[06:22] <stub> I refuse to perpetuate that annoyance and promote ZeroMQ :-)
[06:22] <lifeless> øøø
[06:23] <wgrant> øMQ does look reasonably nice, but I'm a bit concerned that they promote it with a video from a PHP conference.
[06:24] <wgrant> Oh.
[06:24] <wgrant> #is has a better one.
[06:24] <wgrant> ∅
[06:25] <wgrant> Although it's not monospaced :/
[06:26] <stub> It is a tool though for writing sane PHP since your PHP can easily become a thin layer talking to a middle layer written in something else :-)
[06:26] <lifeless> wgrant: compose for that ?
[06:26] <wgrant> lifeless: No clue.
[06:26] <stub> ØMQ is fine
[06:27] <wgrant> I wonder if xkeyboard-config knows.
[06:27] <wgrant> ∅MQ fails in a monospace font.
[06:27] <wgrant> Need a smallish space..
[06:28] <stub> ØMQ looks better than ∅MQ in my non-monospace font too.
[06:30] <wgrant> We really need to get rid of embedded JS.
[06:35] <huwshimi> wgrant: You mean all the inline JS? We certainly do need to do that
[06:35] <wgrant> Yes.
[06:35] <huwshimi> wgrant: We really need a global dom ready and a place for all the js to exists
[06:35] <wgrant> It's hideous and buggy and blah.
[06:35] <wgrant> And TAL makes it even worse.
[06:36] <huwshimi> sure is
[06:37] <huwshimi> wgrant: Fixing that up should have a small speed improvement too
[06:38] <wgrant> Indeed.
[07:50] <poolie> lifeless previously said that .suspend on a bmp diff job would cause it to retry later
[07:51] <poolie> but is that true
[07:52] <poolie> it looks a bit more like 'suspend' means paused indefinitely
[08:02] <adeuring> good morning
[08:02] <jelmer> hi Abel
[08:06] <wgrant> poolie: The solution should be clear.
[08:06] <wgrant> Just schedule a BranchMergeProposalUpdatePreviewDiffUnsuspensionJob!
[08:07] <wgrant> Sorry, BranchMergeProposalUpdatePreviewDiffJobUnsuspensionJob
[08:07] <poolie> :)
[08:08] <poolie> i think i can add it to the list of retriable exceptions
[08:08] <mrevell> Hallo
[08:09] <poolie> hi there
[08:52] <poolie> mrevell: https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/SSH_OAuth
[08:57] <wallyworld_> so why does the web service interface hate me so? i have a LaunchpadWebServiceCaller instance, i have logged in, but when i try invoking a delete method exposed via  @export_destructor_operation,  i get a 405  and only GET PUT PATCH POST allowed
[08:57] <wallyworld_> and it swallows the error so i have to hack in debugging to see the response
[08:58] <lifeless> its not personal
[08:58] <lifeless> it hates everyone equally
[08:58] <wallyworld_> :-) so how so i get it to allow me to invoke a http delete?
[09:01] <wallyworld_> i see for example there's a story test for deleting branches using a similar bit of code but there's no exposed branch delete method that i can see, so i'm not sure how that works
[09:17] <rvba> adeuring: Hi, I'd like to ask you another question about lazr.batchnavigator if you have 5 minutes.
[09:17] <adeuring> rvba: sure
[09:17] <rvba> This time it's a *real* question.
[09:17] <rvba> I'm working on bug 872086.
[09:17] <_mup_> Bug #872086: Distribution:+ppas and Distribution:+questions issue unlimited queries when memo=0&direction=backwards <regression> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> <Storm:In Progress by rvb> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/872086 >
[09:17] <adeuring> rvba: well, your last one wass quite real  too ;)
[09:18] <rvba> I've done the Storm (trivial) fix but I wonder if I should try to also add a small fix to the batchnavigator like I first envisioned.
[09:18]  * adeuring is reading the bug report...
[09:18] <rvba> My idea was to try to improve how the batchnavigator deals with empty slices (like res[x:x]) to avoid issuing a query.
[09:20] <rvba> But, reading the code in src/lazr/batchnavigator/z3batching/batch.py I see that the way it works, slicing with [start:end+1] to get cleverly get the information about whether or not there are other elements, will make this improvement rather "clumsy" ...
[09:21] <rvba> adeuring: The storm fix will fix the problem so my question to you is: do you think I should try to improve the navigator or not? (after looking at the code I confess I'm not sure it's worth it).
[09:22] <adeuring> rvba: in general, it is of course a good idea to "short-cut" queries where you know that the result will be empty, like sequence[n:n]. The problem with StormRangeFactory is that it does not have any knowledge about the possible size of the result set: The SQL OFFSET clause is gone, so you don't have anything that would map to [N:N]. Or am I missing something?
[09:23] <rvba> adeuring: right, that's why I was thinking that the fix could be in src/lazr/batchnavigator/z3batching/batch.py.
[09:23] <rvba> adeuring: But I'm just reading this code for the first time so I might be wrong.
[09:24] <adeuring> rvba: this code is a bit messy: It mixes the old batching parameters, like start, with the new ones -- no realy clear separation
[09:25] <adeuring> rvba: The class is supposed to rely _only_ on memo values and on a requested batch size
[09:25] <lifeless> adeuring: rvba is talking about the List range factory
[09:25] <lifeless> adeuring: I think.
[09:25] <adeuring> lifeless: ah, right!
[09:26] <adeuring> rvba: ok, in that case, tweaking ListRangeFactory is of course reasonable
[09:26]  * adeuring needs more coffee
[09:27] <rvba> Right, ListRangeFactory, I confess this code messes with my brain a little ;)
[09:27] <lifeless> thats entirely my fault
[09:27] <lifeless> I took some confused code and made it more capable
[09:27] <lifeless> -> and more confused
[09:27] <rvba> hehe
[09:28] <rvba> Okay, I'll see what I can do with ListRangeFactory, thanks lifeless, adeuring.
[09:58] <jtv> gmb: hi there.  Could I grovel you for a review?  https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-873421/+merge/79662
[10:06] <gmb> jtv: If you missed a preposition in that sentence, sure. If not, I don't know what being grovelled by you actually entails...
[10:07] <jtv> Just verbing my way around the language.
[10:07] <jtv> It involves me grovelling.
[10:07] <nigelb> I think the grovelling comes if you refuse to review :P
[10:08] <gmb> jtv: That's fine, then. I didn't know if it was the Launchpad version of Thailand's annual scheduled coup.
[10:09] <nigelb> lol
[10:35] <gmb> jtv: Approved with one comment, discardable as appropriate.
[10:36] <gmb> s/discard/disregard/g
[10:36] <jtv> gmb: thanks.  Perhaps you were thinking of “shovelling someone” rather than “grovelling someone” earlier.
[10:36] <gmb> Heh.
[10:41]  * gmb -> adding tea to brain; bbiab
[10:48] <jtv> Making an interface attribute doNotSnapshot does not affect our definition of API compatibility, right?  ISTR some programs could theoretically break because of it, but we considered such programs buggy.
[10:50] <gmb> jtv: Right, it shouldn't make a difference to API compatibility.
[10:50] <jtv> Thanks.
[13:07] <deryck> Morning, all.
[13:07] <abentley> deryck: morning.
[13:29] <lifeless> bigjools: allenap: what would cause txlongpoll to timeout on 'make rune'
[13:29] <lifeless> s/rune/run/
[13:30] <allenap> lifeless: Blimey, let me see...
[13:30] <lifeless> 'Exception: Timeout waiting for txlongpoll to start.'
[13:30] <lifeless> plus a trace back - > total output
[13:31] <lifeless> presumably the fixture has a log in getDetails but we're not printing that
[13:31] <bigjools> mmm it tries to connect on the frontend port
[13:31] <bigjools> and won't continue until it connects
[13:31] <bigjools> or times out
[13:31] <lifeless> ok; is that something I would need to fiddle, add to hosts, ... ?
[13:31] <bigjools> so I expect txlongpoll is failing to start up
[13:31] <bigjools> can you run it standalone?
[13:32] <lifeless> I don't know. how do I check?
[13:33] <bigjools> run the binary!
[13:33] <bigjools> well, "executable"
[13:33] <lifeless> help me out here, its 0230 :)
[13:33] <bigjools> bin/twistd-for-txlongpoll
[13:33] <lifeless> [only awake due to unhappy baby]
[13:34] <allenap> lifeless: I suggest adding a try...except: print $fixture_details in TxLongPollServer.setUp() (in the LP code base).
[13:34] <lifeless> that returns a twistd options page
[13:34] <bigjools> bin/twistd-for-txlongpoll  amqp-longpoll -f 9999 -u guest -a guest
[13:34] <lifeless> ah! thanks
[13:35] <bigjools> unless the port that the fixture is using is conflicting with something...
[13:35] <lifeless> assert fallback is None or callable(fallback)
[13:35] <lifeless> I'm guessing I dont' have your fixed txlongpoll
[13:35] <lifeless> in this branch
[13:39] <lifeless> yah, trunk has 0.2.8->0.2.9
[13:39] <lifeless> thanks!
[13:52] <lifeless> allenap: bigjools: does 'make run' run its own rabbit up ?
[13:54] <allenap> lifeless: Yes, should do.
[13:56] <lifeless> allenap: yes, I see
[14:10] <jcsackett> wallyworld: you still actually around?
[14:10] <wallyworld> jcsackett: sadly yes
[14:10] <wallyworld> but off to bed soon
[14:10]  * rvba takes a look at the world clock.
[14:10] <jcsackett> rvba: he's up very late. :-P
[14:11] <rvba> Very very late indeed.
[14:11] <lifeless> pish
[14:11] <jcsackett> lifeless: your habits can't be used to judge anyone else, for various reasons. :-P
[14:12] <jcsackett> although you're up late by most standards too. :-)
[14:12] <nigelb> Actually, with lifeless its hard to judge if he's up late or awake eearly.
[14:13] <jcsackett> hm. that's *very* true.
[14:15] <lifeless> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
[14:15] <lifeless> instant-oops-delivery end to end manual test is go.
[14:16] <lifeless> code.launchpad.dev/++oops++ -> 'received OOPS-...' on the amqp2disk console (run with -v); paste that into oops-tools web UI and tada immediately visible.
[14:22] <jcsackett> nice!
[14:45] <lifeless> gnight
[14:46] <rvba> nn
[14:54] <flacoste> rvba, allenap: i'm trying to find the cause of bug 830676, can you help me navigate the involved templates?
[14:54] <_mup_> Bug #830676: Regression in PPA AJAX build status indicators <critical-analysis> <regression> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/830676 >
[14:55] <allenap> flacoste: Do you mind if I leave you in rvba's hands? I'm meant to be on leave :)
[14:55] <rvba> flacoste: sure.
[14:55] <flacoste> allenap: please be on leave!
[14:55] <rvba> Let me have a look.
[14:55] <flacoste> rvba: i'm utterly unfamiliar with how this is all hooked up together
[14:56] <flacoste> my guess is that the change is done by doUpdate in archive-packages.pt
[14:56] <flacoste> but i don't see where doUpdate is called from
[14:57] <flacoste> or even if this is the right place to look
[14:57] <rvba> looking
[14:59] <flacoste> hmm, although i think this is for the expander part, not the portlet that the bug report talks about
[15:02]  * rvba uploads a test package to a ppa to see the ajax request.
[15:02] <flacoste> rvba: ok, i think this is related to lp.soyuz.dynamic_dom_updater
[15:06] <rvba> flacoste: sounds like the soyuz way indeed.
[15:06] <flacoste> rvba: do you know where the domupdater is hooked to a specific row in the build status column?
[15:07] <flacoste> ah, update_build_status.js
[15:08] <rvba> flacoste: The key is to provide the domUpdateFunction.
[15:08] <flacoste> rvba: right, i'm looking at how this is all hooked up, like everytime you disturb someone to ask questions, you start making progress yourself!
[15:09] <rvba> flacoste: so that's good, let's continue ;)
[15:09] <flacoste> rvba: thanks for helping, i'll continue to investigate and bug you again if i get stuck :-)
[15:09] <flacoste> rvba: i need to hop on a call
[15:09] <rvba> k
[15:19] <abentley> gmb: flacoste thinks my work on reordering bugs via ajax may overlap with your work on loading comments incrementally via ajax.  Can we chat?
[15:21] <gmb> abentley: Certainly. I'll be free to talk in ~30mins if that's okay.
[15:21] <abentley> gmb: works for me.
[15:21] <gmb> abentley: Cool. I'll ping when I'm free.
[15:55] <gmb> abentley: I'm free whenever you are. What works for you, mumble or skype?
[15:55] <abentley> gmb: let's mumble in Orange 101
[15:55] <gmb> abentley: Okidoke. 1 sec...
[15:55] <elmo> a lot of the launchpad buildds are going down  for power work
[15:58] <jtv> gmb: still ocr'ing?  If so, https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/bug-870130/+merge/79691
[15:58] <gmb> jtv: Certainly; bear with me a little while and I'll take a look.
[15:58] <jtv> I often feel bad about hitting the same reviewer twice in one day, though nowhere near as much as for reviewing the same developer twice in one day.
[15:58] <jtv> It's a good thing I enjoy watching them suffer, or I'd be depressed.
[15:58] <jtv> Thanks gmb
[16:23] <abentley> deryck: We have form fields with ids such as "field.searchtext".  I'm having trouble retrieving them with YUI.one.  I think they may be invalid identifiers: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/syndata.html
[16:23] <deryck> abentley, they are invalid.
[16:23] <deryck> abentley, there's some selector work around, but it escapes me now.  let me search.
[16:23] <abentley> deryck: okay.
[16:25] <abentley> deryck: [id=field.searchtext] seems to work.
[16:26] <deryck> abentley, ah right.
[16:27] <deryck> abentley, I was thinking of this construction:  Y.one(Y.DOM.byId('field.searchtext'))
[16:28] <abentley> deryck: Y.one accepts a DOM node?  Weird.
[16:29] <abentley> deryck: also, we seem to have a bunch of ids that are not unique, e.g. field.status.  Should I just give up and jam this stuff into the IJSONCache instead?
[16:29] <deryck> abentley, yeah.  turns it into the Y.Node form.
[16:30] <deryck> hmmm, thinking about that....
[16:30] <deryck> abentley, I think I would stick it in the cache, yes.  Just to be careful and specific.
[16:31] <abentley> deryck: Okay, I'll do that.
[16:55] <gmb> jtv: Approved.
[17:02] <jtv> thanks gmb
[17:02] <gmb> np
[17:02] <gmb> And with that...
[17:03]  * gmb -> afk for the evening
[17:07] <jtv> Then next continent over is giving up?  Classic cue to stop working.
[17:08] <Ursinha> lol
[17:09] <jtv> hey Ursinha!
[17:11] <Ursinha> hey jtv!
[17:11] <Ursinha> :)
[17:15] <nigelb> jtv: heh.
[17:32] <flacoste> abentley, deryck: we should fix the the non-unique ids at some point
[17:42] <abentley> flacoste: and make them valid ids, too.
[17:58] <jtv> Arrrgh buildbot failure.  Something about bzr and twisted, I think.
[17:59] <dobey> haha. launchpad /is/ engineered like an AK-47 no? jams all the time, and lubricated with vodka?
[17:59] <jtv> dobey: no, that's just barry.
[18:00] <jtv> At least, I hear he jams a lot.  Not 100% sure about the vodka.
[18:03] <jtv> jelmer: do you have any idea what might have earned us the ongoing buildbot failure?  https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/builders/lucid_lp/builds/1476/steps/shell_6/logs/summary
[18:04] <jtv> Most of the failing tests are related to something I touched the other day, but not the first one.  So I'm hoping that first one is closer to the root cause. :)
[18:05] <jelmer> jtv: hmm
[18:06] <jelmer> jtv: that's an odd one. I'm not aware of any other changes in this area. How long has this been failing?
[18:06] <abentley> deryck: Having trouble finding the spot where the search params are defined.  Any suggestions?
[18:06] <jtv> jelmer: only just now, I think
[18:06] <jtv> It looks like it might be transient, maybe timing-sensitive.
[18:07] <deryck> abentley, are you looking for lp.bugs.interfaces.bugtask.BugTaskSearchParams ?
[18:08] <jtv> allenap: nothing to do with your fix to un-hose our librarian tests?  https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/builders/lucid_lp/builds/1476/steps/shell_6/logs/summary
[18:08] <abentley> deryck: No, I
[18:09] <abentley> deryck: 'm trying to figure out how it gets populated, so I can do it in the right place.
[18:11] <deryck> abentley, lp.bugs.browser.bugtask.BugTaskSearchListingView.buildSearchParams ?
[18:11] <abentley> deryck: Yes, but how does that get called?
[18:12] <abentley> deryck: it gets supplied with extra_params, and I don't know how to get them.'
[18:14] <deryck> abentley, same file, look for search --> searchUnbatched --> buildSearchParams.  Or are you asking how extra_params gets supplied from that top function?
[18:15] <abentley> deryck: Yeah, I still need to know how extra_params get supplied to search().
[18:16] <deryck> abentley, IIRC, I don't think that's used much.
[18:16] <deryck> abentley, I'm looking around.
[18:17] <abentley> deryck: I backtraced to eggs/zope.tales-3.4.0-py2.6.egg/zope/tales/expressions.py(211)_eval()
[18:23] <deryck> abentley, I don't see it actually used anywhere.  You have some error, I take it, where you see extra_params being passed in?
[18:23] <abentley> I don't know if extra_params is used anywhere, but I thought it was how the extra search parameters were getting into the page.
[18:35] <deryck> abentley, so I think buildSearchParams is just doing the work. and data gets populated with the self._validate call.  after that it's Zope magic to me.
[19:00] <flacoste> gary_poster: WebserviceTestCase uses the AppServerLayer, wouldn't it be possible to use wsgi.intercept instead and run in the LaunchpadLayer?
[19:00] <flacoste> or even DatabaseLayer
[19:00] <flacoste> DatbaseFunctionalLayer
[19:00] <flacoste> and let users who need the librarian to upgrade their layer
[19:00] <flacoste> gary_poster: i remember you adding support to use launchpadlib with wsgi.intercept for tests
[19:01] <flacoste> but it seems the default testcase base class for that (and that is getting significant traction by devs) isn't taking advantage of that
[19:05] <gary_poster> flacoste on call, off soon
[19:06] <gary_poster> flacoste, I did add wsgi.intercept for launchpadlib, yeah
[19:06] <gary_poster> lemme see where that was
[19:08] <gary_poster> flacoste, it is in the FunctionalLayer
[19:09] <gary_poster> So in DatabaseFunctionalLayer
[19:09] <gary_poster> LaunchpadFunctionalLayer
[19:09] <flacoste> gary_poster: so in theory, we should be able to change WebserviceTestCase to remove the layer attribute
[19:09] <flacoste> or change it to layer = DatabaseFunctionalLayer
[19:10] <flacoste> and everything should be honky dory?
[19:13] <flacoste> gary_poster: ready on skype whenever you are
[19:13] <gary_poster> flacoste, or any of the non-appserver layers, yeah.  it expects to answer on "localhost:80" and "api.launchpad.dev:80"
[19:13] <gary_poster> ok
[19:19] <benji> Does anyone want to review an exciting and well-written MP?
[19:19]  * benji pretends as if he's not exaggerating.
[20:03] <flacoste> benji: if this is the stakeholders' bug i'm thinking it is, i can have a shot at it
[20:03] <benji> flacoste: it probably is: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/bug-828572/+merge/79733
[20:05] <flacoste> benji: ok, i'm on it
[20:05] <benji> cool
[20:21] <flacoste> benji: looks very good, but i have two questions
[20:21] <flacoste> 1) is there anything we should remove since the garbo migration is complete?
[20:22] <flacoste> (code)
[20:22] <flacoste> 2) since any() in this case is all about status items, couldn't we use search_value_to_where_condition() instead of using recursion and joining with ' OR '?
[20:23] <benji> flacoste: 1) probably; I was thinking the same thing but I was temted to wait until I can ask Brad when he gets back, but honestly it's very, very likely that we should just remove the code from garbo
[20:24] <flacoste> yes, if the transition is complete, we should remove it
[20:25] <benji> flacoste:  2) I don't see an easy way because we have the odd-man-out of having a special case for INCOMPLETE; we could do it but the code would get quite a bit more complex
[20:33] <benji> flacoste: that was odd, my internet connection dropped on me, did you see my response to 2?
[20:37] <flacoste> benji: i did, you basically mean that we'd need to support any() in search_value_to_where_condition
[20:38] <flacoste> benji: which it seems to support :-)
[20:38] <flacoste> hmm
[20:39] <flacoste> actually
[20:39] <flacoste> no
[20:39] <flacoste> it supports a single any
[20:39] <flacoste> ok, so that should be fine then
[20:39] <benji> flacoste: no (although that may be true), I mean that since the user can provide something like any(NEW, INCOMPLETE) we would have to generate something like "status IN (1, 2, 3)", where 2 and 3 are the enum values for INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE and INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE
[20:39] <flacoste> right
[20:40] <flacoste> that's what i understood
[20:42] <flacoste> benji: how about:
[20:42] <flacoste> if INCOMPLETE in status.query_values:
[20:43] <flacoste>    status = any([value for value in status.query_values if value != INCOMPLETE] + [INCOMPLETE_WITH, INCOMPLETE_WIHTOUT)
[20:48] <benji> flacoste: I assume you mean for that to be inside the "if zope_isinstance(status, any)" clause.
[20:50] <flacoste> yep
[20:50] <flacoste> benji: feel free to use it or something like that if you feel it simplifies
[20:50] <flacoste> your mp is approved anyway :-)
[20:53] <benji> flacoste: thanks; I'm experimenting with a variation that might result in equally straight-forward code while also generating the slightly nice SQL you're looking for
[20:53] <flacoste> that'd be awesome
[21:03] <abentley> wallyworld_: flacoste has pointed out that your work on batchnavigator and mine on dynamic bug listings may overlap.  Can we chat?
[21:04] <wallyworld_> abentley: sure
[21:04] <abentley> wallyworld_: skype or mumple?
[21:04] <wallyworld_> either. let's try mumble
[21:14] <benji> flacoste: it turned out quite nicely, thanks for the prod in that direction: http://paste.ubuntu.com/712484/
[21:16] <flacoste> benji: indeed!
[21:17] <flacoste> that's nice
[22:24] <wallyworld_> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/delete-bugtasks-1324/+merge/79541
[22:52] <lifeless> flacoste: wow you're churning out critical-analysis tags now :)
[23:02] <lifeless> sinzui: ping
[23:02] <lifeless> sinzui: I want to talk failfan with you
[23:02] <lifeless> sinzui: at a mutually convenient time
[23:04] <lifeless> sinzui: also, StevenK wgrant and I were talking about private teams & socialisation, without you :( [you were on public holiday I think :))] - I'd like to confirm the conclusions with you
[23:11] <wgrant> lifeless: He's out at the moment. Was planning to talk about private teams in 1.5 or 2 hours or so.
[23:11] <wgrant> failfan?
[23:11] <lifeless> mailman
[23:11] <lifeless> but I wanted to say fail
[23:12] <lifeless> wgrant: ok, well ping me (perhaps on skype) - I'm not here today, but meh... will swap things around on thurs/fri
[23:12] <wgrant> Ah!
[23:15] <lifeless> I was working at 4am...
[23:16] <wgrant> ... bad lifeless
[23:16] <lifeless> but working amqp oopses
[23:16] <lifeless> \o/
[23:46] <cjwatson> wgrant: so I've just been talking with slangasek about getting cron.germinate optimisation onto my official to-do list for 12.04, which will hopefully happen
[23:47] <cjwatson> wgrant: it looks to me that its runtime is currently 9-10 minutes, 8 flavours * 5 architectures, and I would be surprised if I couldn't trim at least three-quarters of that
[23:47] <wgrant> Yeah, it should be pretty cuttable.
[23:47] <wgrant> That's excellent news.
[23:48] <cjwatson> wgrant: that would mean that quite a few, but not all, publisher runs would fit within 30 minutes (looking at a sample of today)
[23:48] <cjwatson> what do you think the threshold might be for switching to */30 runs?
[23:48] <wgrant> And we can cut it down further if we split partner out...
[23:49] <cjwatson> also parallelising ls-lR against other stuff, perhaps
[23:49]  * wgrant finds a recent log.
[23:49] <wgrant> I really should get it bumped up to DEBUG.
[23:49] <wgrant> It's a bit quiet at the moment.
[23:49] <cjwatson> ls-lR runtime isn't logged at the moment, no
[23:50] <cjwatson> I had to watch it in action.  I didn't time that step specifically but it took a couple of minutes.
[23:50] <cjwatson> actually from 23:27:00 to I think something around 23:30:40
[23:50] <wgrant> I had a detailed timeline in a Tomboy note a year or so ago. I wonder if that's still around, or if that was in the batch that U1 deleted...
[23:51] <wgrant> Ah, there it is.
[23:51] <wgrant> I have ls-lR down as taking 2.5-3 minutes.
[23:51] <wgrant> Germinate 7, but we have more flavours now.
[23:51] <cjwatson> and one extra arch
[23:52] <wgrant> I think this may have been before the powerpc/sparc elimination, but I don't quite recall.
[23:52] <cjwatson> ah, could be
[23:52] <cjwatson> (powerpc hasn't been eliminated though, maybe you mean lpia)
[23:52] <cjwatson> (or hppa)
[23:52] <wgrant> I meant ia64
[23:52] <wgrant> ia64/sparc
[23:52] <cjwatson> all these doorstops
[23:52] <StevenK> Haha
[23:53] <wgrant> I count sparc and powerpc as real archs, so I forgot about ia64.
[23:54] <cjwatson> I haven't measured (I know ...) but it strikes me that ls-lR is I/O-bound while at least cron.germinate (and possibly other finalize.d type stuff) really aren't
[23:54] <wgrant> That would indeed make sense.
[23:54] <cjwatson> and cocoplum has four CPUs ...
[23:56] <cjwatson> Is splitting out partner a near-future kind of thing?
[23:56] <cjwatson> or merely priority High?
[23:56] <wgrant> Near future doesn't even come from Critical importance.
[23:56] <wgrant> it comes from someone doing it in violation of policy :)
[23:57] <cjwatson> well, LP queue ordering policy doesn't apply to external contributors so no violation involved :-)  but I don't think I'd know where to start
[23:58] <wgrant> I'm not sure that partner actually takes more than a few seconds, though, so it might not be worth it now that it's all in Python.
[23:58] <mwhudson> data data data
[23:58] <cjwatson> mm, I don't see much in the log I can clearly attribute to it
[23:58] <wgrant> Previously partner had ~a minute of LP process startup time. Now it's all in one process, so it's almost free.
[23:58] <wgrant> I'm getting data :)


[04:02] <BootLoic> to com um poblema no audio quando rodo o skype alguma soluçao?
[04:04] <Poisoned_Dragon> !es
[04:43]  * OldGuyAFK is away: Gone away for now
[04:44] <Unit193> !away | OldGuyAFK
[06:03] <tamran> howdy everyone
[06:04] <tamran> is there a straightforward way to change system sounds?
[06:04] <tamran> I'm now in system notification configuration and there seems to be hundreds of sub-categories
[06:04] <tamran> in KDE of course
[06:05] <valorie> hundreds?
[06:05] <tamran> valorie: might as well be :)
[06:05] <valorie> heh
[06:05] <valorie> i have mine turned off, and that seemed simple enough....
[06:06] <tamran> is there a (current) tutorial on changing basic system sounds?
[06:06] <tamran> I must say, I was surprised that KDE didn't have this straight
[06:07] <valorie> so, are you talking about systemsettings?
[06:07] <tamran> my lady friend wants to fiddle with them ...
[06:07] <tamran> yeah
[06:07] <tamran> System Setting -> Application and System Notifications
[06:07] <tamran> in there, it seems to have a bunch of subcategories for notifications
[06:08] <valorie> 4
[06:08] <valorie> and the last one is just yes/no
[06:08] <tamran> under Manage Notifications
[06:09] <valorie> there has to be a balance between configurability and simplicity, yes?
[06:09] <tamran> two tabs: Applications and Player Settings
[06:09] <tamran> do you know if this is the right place to change sounds?
[06:09] <valorie> yes, it is
[06:09] <valorie> but I mean, most people will never change any of it
[06:09] <tamran> I want to change the start up sound with one I downloaded
[06:09] <valorie> other than adjust the volume, maybe
[06:10] <tamran> I wish I was most people
[06:10] <tamran> actually, most people don't use linux
[06:10] <valorie> ok, and there is a place to do that
[06:10] <valorie> player settings > use an external player (I think)
[06:10] <valorie> not sure, since I've never used that
[06:12] <tamran> Oh wait ... I think I found what I need
[06:12] <tamran> there is a "KDE Workspace" event source sub-category
[06:12] <tamran> thanks for your help valorie
[06:13] <valorie> heh
[06:13] <valorie> not sure I did, but if you found what you need, it's all good
[06:14] <tamran> I wonder if anyone has made a sound theme manager for KDE?
[06:18] <valorie> that I don't know
[07:53] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:26] <RedDeath> .
[10:16] <rcw2> are kubuntu iso downloads updated regularly?  would a 13.10 iso be much different in june that its january counterpart
[10:22] <tsimpson> rcw2: the ISOs are not updated once released
[10:58] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:00] <ezra-s> hello
[11:08] <BluesKaj> hi ezra-s
[13:49] <noaXess> hey all
[13:50] <noaXess> i'm trying to migrate this driver to current ubuntu releases.. https://sourceforge.net/projects/pinnaclembusb/
[13:50] <noaXess> i'm ready to compile a make the driver.. i also have the o fiels and the binaries needed.. now, in the driver there is no installation path, where to place the files..
[13:51] <noaXess> so question.. where to place files.. and how to use it, if device will be plugged in?
[13:51] <noaXess> do i need create a UDEV fule?
[15:46] <arthurb> I've been in pulseaudio hell for a long time, despite a relatively simple configuration (5.1 s/pdif, would like passthrough for movies). At this point my sound on kde works without going through pulseaudio, but I have no mixer (only one at a time). I'm running raring. If someone can help me fix my pulseaudio configuration without having to reinstall my entire system, would be happy to tip 0.05 btc
[15:49] <lordievader> arthurb: You know that Raring is going to be EOL by the end of this month?
[15:49] <arthurb> I did not know that
[15:50] <arthurb> haven't been following updates
[15:50] <lordievader> arthurb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[15:50] <lordievader> arthurb: Also if you are still using alsa, there is the alsamixer.
[15:50] <arthurb> alsamixer tries to call the pulse library, it's a clusterfuck
[15:51] <lordievader> arthurb: It should only call alsa stuff, for as far as I know... Haven't had a setup without PA yet...
[15:51]  * arthurb is updating to saucy
[15:52] <lordievader> arthurb: What was the problem with PA actually that you've disabled it?
[15:53] <arthurb> well, my sound is iffy now. If vlc is running but paused, no other app will get sound... skype notifications will interrupt music in other apps and the music won't restart unless the app is killed and restarted, flash audio works sometimes in firefox but never in chrome, etc, etc
[15:54] <rcw2> !skype
[15:55] <lordievader> arthurb: That is because you are not using PA. That is the main reason PA exists. When a program uses alsa, alsa will take your soundcard hostage. Thus no other program can use the soundcard.
[15:55] <rcw2> !xchat
[15:56] <rcw2> !x-chat
[15:56] <lordievader> !info xchat| rcw2
[15:56] <lordievader> !info xchat
[15:56] <lordievader> !info xchat saucy| rcw2
[15:57] <ik_> hi my friends
[15:57] <lordievader> !info xchat saucy | rcw2
[15:57] <lordievader> Ah there we go...
[15:57] <lordievader> Hey ik_
[15:57] <rcw2> and to install (best practice)?
[15:57] <ik_> how are you
[15:57] <arthurb> lordievader: sure, but PA doesn't work, that's the whole point, how do I make it work?
[15:58] <lordievader> rcw2: Xchat? Run in a terminal: sudo apt-get install xchat
[15:58] <LucidGuy> Loving Kubuntu/KDE .. on 12.04
[15:58] <ik_> I don't know exactly, ask to moderator
[15:58] <lordievader> ik_: Doing good, how about you?
[15:58] <ik_> well, my friend
[15:58] <lordievader> arthurb: Doesn't work, care to eleborate?
[15:59] <arthurb> sure, if I run pavucontrol is goes:  "Fatal Error:Unable to connect to PulseAudio:OK"
[16:00] <ik_> for some computers is best delete pulseaudio
[16:00] <arthurb> well I tried that and I'm not so happy with the result
[16:00] <lordievader> ik_: That is not recommended...
[16:01] <lordievader> arthurb: Was that on a fresh install?
[16:01] <arthurb> there was a tiny period in my life, between artsd hell and pulseaudio hell where I had good working sound in kde
[16:01] <arthurb> lordievader: no
[16:01] <ik_> i.e. in Acer Aspire One is best whithout pulseaudio
[16:01] <lordievader> arthurb: PA should work on a fresh install.
[16:01] <arthurb> those were the days
[16:01] <arthurb> lordievader: perhaps but I don't have one, and no, not necessarily if you have s/pdif audio to deal with
[16:02] <ik_> I'm between experts ... but I'm dummy
[16:04] <lordievader> arthurb: You could try and see if your s/pdif connection works ootb in an live-cd/usb of Saucy.
[16:05] <rcw2> k
[16:05] <arthurb> lordievader: I like that, that's a pretty good idea
[16:05] <rcw2> lordievader: and for future reference, are there commands here for installation instructions for many different programs, or no
[16:07] <lordievader> rcw2: For installing packages from the Ubuntu repo you can use the apt suite of commands ("apt-get" is one of them). For installing .deb files you can use "dpkg". Allways be sure to read the man pages if you don't know what a command does, ex: man dpkg
[16:10] <rcw2> lordievader: im aware of apt-get and dpkg methods.  it would be nice if there were precise instructions for each common tool, for instance, i type !skype and get a link to precise instructions.
[16:11] <lordievader> rcw2: Most software is in the repo, so apt-get should suffice. Skype is(/was?) an exception, since it is closed-source.
[16:54] <Guest96811> hi
[17:33] <gino_> ciaooo
[17:34] <gino_> autocad 2000
[18:55] <Guest91104> hola
[18:55] <Guest91104> holaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:14] <keithzg> Arghh still getting the damn complaints from Dolphin about keys for SFTP connections where I've previously SSH'd into the boxes.
[19:15] <keithzg> Is libssh 0.6.0 in saucy+1 yet? (I forget the upcoming version name). I'm almost tempted to switch just to avoid having to blow up my known_hosts file all the time :P
[19:16] <keithzg> Ah, Trusty. And no, it's still on libssh 0.5.4-1, boo! http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/trusty/libssh
[19:19] <keithzg> Oho, I see the indomitable Riddell already reported it! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libssh/+bug/1268652
[19:20] <lordievader> !info libssh
[19:21] <lordievader> !info libssh-4
[19:46]  * Riddell is indomitable!
[20:12] <LucidGuy> odd scenario, nvidia-settings and display settings within kubuntu look fine, yet the screen looks horrible .. can barely read the text.
[20:13] <lordievader> LucidGuy: Could you post a screen shot?
[20:13] <lordievader> !paste | LucidGuy
[20:14] <LucidGuy> Will do, first thing tomorrow.  Being pulled away from my desk.  Thanks
[21:09] <harry1923> test
[22:24] <goosie2020> Hello Folks!
[22:25] <goosie2020> I've got a question for you KDE experts...
[22:26] <goosie2020> I've been messing around with installing different linux distro's to a USB drive with Universal USB Installer (tried unetbootin and didn't like it)
[22:26] <goosie2020> I prefer Kubuntu but I had some issues getting it to work right with the persistence
[22:27] <goosie2020> So...I installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS which works with the persistence. Now, I'm trying to change the look of this stupid Unity back to something more like KDE or at least the old look and feel of ubuntu
[22:28] <goosie2020> Seeing as though it is a USB drive and there is limited memory I didn't want to install the full kubuntu-desktop package so I figured I would try the kde-plasma-desktop package.
[22:29] <goosie2020> From what I understand it only installs the bare minimum that is required to run KDE
[22:29] <goosie2020> I installed it with apt-get through the Terminal and choose kdm as the X Window Manager and now I'm stuck and nothing has changed


[14:29] <Mish> http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot/statement
[16:16] <len-dt> I don't seem to be able to sign the above form. I get a database error.


[05:11] <stochastic> astraljava, I've been starting to poke around the code more the past few days.  My month of pseudo-vacation just started, so chances are I'll be jumping into it deeper very soon
[08:34] <astraljava> stochastic: Ok. I didn't get anything done, I caught a flu and had to rest the last several days of last year.
[08:38] <abogani> good morning and happy new year!
[08:39] <knome> happy new year from me too
[09:03]  * astraljava wishes all that's good and shiny as well
[09:05] <knome> i like matte more
[09:07] <astraljava> Nothing's ever good for you. I like it. I'm a little like that, too.
[09:07] <astraljava> "a little"
[09:08] <knome> hehe
[09:08] <knome> yeah, i know
[09:08] <knome> i strive for perfection.
[09:08] <knome> anyway, bbl
[09:08] <knome> see you
[09:15] <astraljava> Later.
[13:37] <cyphermox> astraljava: syslog is generally sufficient, but I always do prefer apport bugs
[13:37] <jussi> cyphermox: hello!
[13:37] <jussi> I got my 3G modem working :)
[13:37] <cyphermox> hey jussi
[13:37] <cyphermox> cool
[13:38] <jussi> dunno about the gps component, but the modem works :)
[14:10] <cyphermox> jussi: well, gps is special anyway :)
[14:11] <cyphermox> it's probably provided, but NetworkManager doesn't use that


[12:30] <DaveMorris> so should I grab teh 24th 1? mythbuntu-7.10~070624-i386-nossh-novnc.iso
[12:30] <superm1> yes
[06:13] (Shred01/#ubuntu-mythtv) why samba?
[06:13] (superm1/#ubuntu-mythtv) well this is my thought process
[06:13] (superm1/#ubuntu-mythtv) people who aren't choosing advanced install
[06:13] (superm1/#ubuntu-mythtv) likely don't have a lot of linux experience
[06:13] (superm1/#ubuntu-mythtv) its a stereotype that I see very fitting
[06:13] (superm1/#ubuntu-mythtv) and they will likely have a windows box and want to transfer files around back and forth
[06:14] (superm1/#ubuntu-mythtv) and then those that choose the advanced install have an option to turn this on and off
[06:14] <Shred01> what kind of files do you see a user in trouble being able to get with smb?
[06:15] <superm1> well i probably didn't say that clearly - the admin/debugging was for SSH
[06:15] <superm1> and then the samba was related to my last few comments
[06:15] <Shred01> sure, ssh i can get onboard with quite easily
[06:15] <superm1> just setting up a writable share for mythvideo, mythmusic, mythgallery
[06:15] <superm1> the code i put through this weekend detects which of them are actually chosen and creates a smb.conf based upon that
[06:16] <Shred01> yeah, i can see that as being peripherally useful if a mythbe is dropped into a network where windows users are, but i'm not sure i see it as being a debugging tool so much.
[06:17] <Shred01> but i think "do you want to share your recorded files|video files|photos with a windows network" being a required question rather than just every mytbuntu box shares all those files unless you are an advanced user.
[06:18] <Shred01> the default stance to share is not so good i think.
[06:18] <Shred01> "hey dude, just found the videos of you and wife on your mythbox.  thanx for sharing!" ;-)
[06:19] <superm1> haha
[06:20] <superm1> well i'll have to toy with the code a bit then to make sure that page still shows up in a standard install
[06:59] <Shred01> woot! have an upstart script that works.  and irexec can simply use "start mythtv-frontend" to start mythfe and "stop mythtv-frontend" to stop it.
[07:17] <superm1> wow, that easy to get things together huh?
[07:22] <Shred01> seems so.  just doing the irexec bits.
[07:22] <Shred01> since this is the dedicated FE, no need to mess around with gnome-screensaver
[07:28] <superm1> really?  I still leave it on my tv
[07:29] <Shred01> naw.  i just let the dpms/xserver screen bla{nc}ker kick in
[07:29] <Shred01> in any case, i would not password lock it.  so xdg-screensaver could be used easily with it.
[07:32] <superm1> those xdg utils aren't present on ubuntu by default correct?
[07:32] <Shred01> they are on my gutsy box.  xdg-utils.
[07:34] <superm1> good to know
[07:35] <Shred01> oh yeah.  ubuntu doesn't ship with an irexec start up script.  i had to create one.  i guess they assume the user env. will start it.  that is something mythbuntu is going to have to deal with too.
[07:45] <Shred01> the irexec bit is ugly because it requires the key value out of the lircd.conf
[07:45] <superm1> i think the uglier part is running that thing as root
[07:45] <Shred01> and key values (i.e. names) are different from remote to remote
[07:45] <superm1> thats quite the security risk
[07:45] <Shred01> irexec?
[07:45] <superm1> (another one of UMCs goals) is consisent remote names
[07:45] <keescook> superm1: latest mythtv/plugins uploaded!
[07:46] <superm1> awesome keescook
[07:46] <superm1> i put the weekly-fixes live on mythbuntu.org too
[07:46] <superm1> based upon that packaging
[07:46] <Shred01> superm1: it could easily be su'd to mythtv if having irexec as root makes anyone nervious
[07:46] <superm1> and we encountered something that could be trouble come feisty->gutsy upgrade
[07:47] <superm1> when upgrading to the new mythtv-backend, there is mythtv-backend-utils
[07:47] <superm1> which conflicts with the older mythtv-backend
[07:47] <superm1> so depending on the order things get done, it has a potential to cause an apt error
[07:47] <Shred01> superm1: not just feisty-gutsy.  fiesty-fiesty too.
[07:48] <superm1> indeed
[07:48] <Shred01> for somebody who adds the mythbuntu fixes repo after a vanilla feisty install
[07:48] <superm1> exactly
[07:48] <superm1> i'm pretty sure just adding a Conflicts:
[07:48] <Shred01> anyway, waaaay past my bedtime.  see y'all later.
[07:48] <superm1> that refers to the older version will solve it
[07:48] <superm1> night Shred01
[07:48] <Shred01> yeah, i thought Conflicts: would do it too.
[07:48] <superm1> i'll test it out this week to make sure
[10:57] <DaveMorris> !medibuntu
[10:57] <ubotu> medibuntu is a repository of packages that cannot be included into the Ubuntu distribution for legal reasons - See http://www.medibuntu.org
[03:04] <DaveMorris> superm1: just been chatting to Daviey about the auto logging out on exit of mythtv and he made this observation
[03:04] <DaveMorris> Daviey: how do you access mythcontrol-centre if you can't get to the desktop..
[04:18] <superm1> well from administration mode
[04:53] <spader3d> hi all
[04:53] <spader3d> i downloaded the latest version of mythbuntu 7.10 and got the frontend working with no problem
[04:53] <spader3d> thanks
[04:54] <spader3d> but i did not see the option to only install the frontend
[04:55] <spader3d> although i installl both the front and the backend it recognized my vp-1020a and everything worked fine
[04:55] <tgm4883> did you do an advanced install?
[04:55] <spader3d> got job done on this mythbuntu!!!
[04:56] <tgm4883> or a standard install spader3d?
[04:56] <superm1> spader3d, glad things worked out well for you :)
[04:56] <superm1> the install for a frontend only was listed as an advanced install option
[04:56] <spader3d> ok i should look for that one then
[04:57] <tgm4883> superm1, a server kernel wouldn't effect the myth packages and dependencies would it?
[04:57] <superm1> nope tgm4883
[04:57] <DaveMorris> tgm4883: souuldn't
[04:57] <superm1> it crashes a virtual box VM though
[04:57] <spader3d> another thing ...will there be support for like DVB decryption?
[04:57] <superm1> so you'll want to be careful that regard
[04:57] <DaveMorris> but some timee it will affect the firmware needed by cards
[04:57] <tgm4883> forum guy tried following the edgy guide for 64-bit
[04:58] <tgm4883> has dependency problems with myth-common
[04:58] <laga> spader3d: mythtv should supported CAMs out of the box
[04:58] <DaveMorris> 64bit will prob have problems
[04:58] <tgm4883> mythtv-backend: Depends: mythtv-common (= 0.20-svn20070122-0.0ubuntu6~edgy1) but 0.20-0.2ubuntu2 is to be installed
[04:58] <DaveMorris> 64bit != server kernel though
[04:58] <tgm4883> he said he installed AMD64
[04:59] <superm1> sounds like he doesn't have backports turned on
[04:59] <superm1> in edgy
[04:59] <tgm4883> and mythtv in the edgy repos is the .20-0.2ubuntu2
[04:59] <spader3d> laga: you mean by using a standard iso?
[05:00] <laga> spader3d: mythtv supports CA modules out of the box. myhbuntu should support them, too. i doubt they removed the CI and CAM code from the kernel :)
[05:00] <tgm4883> superm1, its in his list, but that gives me an idea
[05:00] <tgm4883> maybe apt-get update was missed
[05:00] <superm1> perhaps
[05:01] <DaveMorris> superm1: the mythtv-database blurb has a typo
[05:01] <DaveMorris> "This package sets up a MySQL database for use my MythTV." should read "This package sets up a MySQL database for use by MythTV."
[05:02] <spader3d> like sasc-ng??
[05:02] <laga> spader3d: dude
[05:02] <superm1> oh good catch DaveMorris :)
[05:02] <laga> spader3d: that's illegal.
[05:02] <spader3d> ah ok....just read abut that the other day
[05:02] <laga> spader3d: i was talking about conditional access modules, not about emulating them in software
[05:02] <tgm4883> DaveMorris, not a typo, all your mythtv boxes belong to superm1 :)
[05:02] <laga> tgm4883: heh
[05:02] <laga> i knew it :)
[05:04] <DaveMorris> superm1: you see my comments ^^ ?
[05:04] <DaveMorris> !logs
[05:04] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[05:04] <superm1> DaveMorris, you didn't see my response?
[05:06] <DaveMorris> nope
[05:06] <DaveMorris> its not logged yet either
[05:06] <superm1> i had said that you can get to it via the administration login
[05:07] <DaveMorris> ok, also are sound levels, and what sound outputs are enabled done per user?
[05:07] <superm1> huh?
[05:09] <DaveMorris> 1 of my boards has stereo out and digital out.  So you need to enable the digital out as its not on by default.  However I'm not sure if those settings are done on a per user basis or over the whole system.  Also setting of the volume for various outputs. per user or per system
[05:09] <superm1> well it can be done either way: per user or per system
[05:09] <superm1> depends on how you enable your digital out
[05:10] <DaveMorris> to enable I just had to press a check box in the gnome volume control
[05:10] <superm1> see i'm a bit more blunt with mine in that i use an asoundrc
[05:10] <superm1> to redirect *all* audio
[05:10] <superm1> to spdif
[05:11] <DaveMorris> ahh, mine can output to bot at once, which is great for parties.
[05:11] <DaveMorris> My amp and speakers in the lounge, my bro's amp and speakers in his room
[05:11] <DaveMorris> playing in time and very loud yet no distortion!
[05:14] <superm1> it can be an option addressed in Daviey's control centre
[05:14] <DaveMorris> sounds good
[05:14] <superm1> okay i'll be back in a bit
[05:14] <DaveMorris> I jsut wanna make sure we don't drive people away because they can't do something
[05:27] <Daviey> hmm..  i'm build a custom kernel over ssh; reckon it will work when i reboot?  :)
[05:28] <DaveMorris> depends how much of a ninja you are ;)
[05:28] <Daviey> changed 3 lines
[05:28] <DaveMorris> this for your sata card or the usb?
[05:28] <Daviey> usb
[05:29] <Daviey> :)
[05:29] <Daviey> i wish i built it in a screen; don't think it will finsih before i leave
[05:29] <DaveMorris> shouldn't do it at work :P
[05:30] <Daviey> what else should i do with my time? :)
[05:30] <DaveMorris> work :P
[05:30] <Daviey> yeah right!
[05:41] <tgm4883> where did mythtv-common go in edgy backports?
[05:45] <tgm4883> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=483925  Heres the thread if anyone wants to weigh in, im running out of ideas and haven't had my coffee yet.  I checked packages.ubuntu.com but couldn't find mythtv-common in edgy-backports (only in edgy), and I suppose that is why he's getting the error.  So where did it go?  or am I confused.
[05:57] <superm1_> Daviey, can you try to have the metas ready soon (higher priority than the themes), ideally would like to announce alpha-2 +/- 4.5 days from tribe-2
[05:57] <tgm4883> superm1, is it possible that mythtv-common was removed from edgy-backports
[05:58] <superm1_> tgm4883, wrong superm1_ :).  um it should nt have been
[05:58] <tgm4883> ah
[05:58] <Daviey> superm1_: erm; i'm confused what you mean by metas?  I thought you mean't the themes & meta-packages for them?
[05:58] <tgm4883> i checked packages.ubuntu.com, but couldn't find it in edgy backports
[05:58] <superm1_> Daviey, i mean the big mythbuntu metas
[05:58] <superm1_> mythbuntu-live
[05:58] <superm1_> and mythbuntu standalone
[05:59] <superm1_> that are used to control what packages are put on the cd
[05:59] <superm1_> and which ones are required in a final install
[05:59] <Daviey> oh geez.. forgot all about them
[05:59] <superm1_> the ones that need those 'seeds' and all
[06:00] <Daviey> Okay, i can set some time aside tommrow afternoon - will you be about@
[06:00] <superm1_> @ when?
[06:01] <Daviey> erm UTC 12:00?
[06:01] <superm1_> 7am???
[06:01] <Daviey> heh
[06:01] <Daviey> erm; what time is good for you?
[06:01] <superm1_> likely no - all depends how late i stay up working on more stuff tonight
[06:02] <superm1_> between 15:00 and 17:00 or after 20:00 UTC
[06:04] <superm1_> tgm4883, that does look weird with barely anything available in backports
[06:04] <superm1_> even weirder is that its only amd64 and powerpc
[06:05] <superm1_> its stuck in the NEW queue it looks like
[06:07] <superm1_> tgm4883, i pinged the archive admins about it
[06:07] <superm1_> hopefully we'll get it sorted out
[06:44] <superm1_> Daviey, were you still going to download an ISO today?
[06:46] <superm1_> if you do, this one should reflect functional ssh and VNC too: http://www.mythbuntu.org/files/iso/mythbuntu-7.10~070625-i386.iso
[07:58] <Daviey> superm1_: wgetting
[08:49] <perlmonkey> hi, i'm getting Segmentation fault (core dumped) when using frontend > manage recordings > schedule > program guide
[08:54] <laga> bye
[10:04] <superm1_> laga ping?
[10:05] <laga> pong
[10:05] <laga> :'(
[10:05] <superm1_> why sad?
[10:05] <laga> because you want mythweb auth and i can't give it to you. been sidetracked.. and had a net outage today
[10:06] <superm1_> well so as to not stop me, i was going to ask at least what debconf variable you're storing in
[10:06] <superm1_> i can work off that at least to get the backend code started on it
[10:06] <laga> oh.
[10:07] <laga> heh. i'm resetting the username and password. AFAIK, such information is not to be kept in the debconf database
[10:07] <superm1_> well when you ask the question
[10:07] <superm1_> where do you put the answer then?
[10:08] <laga> i'll pastebin the template for you
[10:09] <superm1_> well if its in bzr i can just update later
[10:09] <superm1_> i was going to ask though if it was a straightforward response at least
[10:09] <laga> see http://laga.ath.cx/debian/mythweb.templates
[10:09] <laga> superm1_: the stuff in bzr should be up to date regarding that
[10:10] <superm1_> k
[10:10] <superm1_> that link doesnt work btw
[10:11] <laga> gah
[10:11] <laga> see http://laga.ath.cx/mythweb.templates
[10:11] <laga> debian/ was the local path :)
[10:12] <laga> superm1_: i have just pushed my latest mythweb.config and mythweb.templates
[10:12] <superm1_> k cool
[10:25] <superm1_> tgm4883, i just got ahold of archive admins
[10:25] <tgm4883> whats up
[10:26] <superm1_> they accepted the i386 package, so the missing pieces should show up within a few hours
[10:26] <tgm4883> sweet
[10:26] <tgm4883> just a bad timing with the guy trying to install then
[10:27] <superm1_> yea
[10:27] <superm1_> well its good he brought this to attention
[10:27] <superm1_> wouldn't have caught it otherwise
[10:27] <tgm4883> ah
[10:30] <superm1_> tgm4883, how is unofficial plugins going?
[10:34] <tgm4883> eh, slow
[10:35] <tgm4883> i have little time to work on it, so it gets a little here and there
[10:35] <tgm4883> i anticipate more time being available next week though as I should be caught up on work related items
[10:39] <superm1_> tgm4883, well as you get a few moments let me know and I can help with some pointers re: packaging and getting things on a bzr branch and such
[10:41] <spader3d> what is the bandwith needed approx to send livetv to a frontend?
[10:41] <spader3d> bandwidth
[10:41] <superm1_> spader3d, depends on the live tv your watching
[10:41] <superm1_> HD?
[10:41] <superm1_> sd?
[10:41] <spader3d> sd
[10:42] <spader3d> if i build a backend with like 3 tv tuner card in it and each one connecter to rec with lirc
[10:42] <superm1_> well it shouldn't be more than about 5mbps
[10:42] <spader3d> can i provide 3 users with video and option to change channels?
[10:43] <spader3d> over a wireless network
[10:44] <superm1_> over the same wireless i'd say thats iffy
[10:44] <superm1_> because even 54mbps - thats peak
[10:44] <superm1_> on average its in the lower 20s
[10:44] <spader3d> but over a wired network it is possible?
[10:45] <superm1_> yea that would be possible then
[10:45] <superm1_> matter of fact i've pushed mine to do 1 HD and 2 SD over the same network
[10:45] <superm1_> all from one backend
[10:46] <spader3d> you have 3 cards in the backend?
[10:47] <superm1_> well at this point only 3
[10:47] <spader3d> and to put the video on the TV i thought of a videocard with tv out
[10:47] <superm1_> i had at one point 5 in that backend
[10:48] <spader3d> i am going to test with 3 .... and over a wired network ...to 3 frontend
[10:49] <spader3d> each should be able to control its own card/stb
[10:49] <spader3d> posibble?
[10:49] <superm1_> yes
[10:58] <superm1_> spader3d, what graphics driver did it end up getting you set up when you installed out of curiousity?
[11:41] <superm1_> keescook, are you staying at a hotel for ULive?  Or just at home since your OR based right?
[11:45] <superm1_> OpenMediaSupport, just made my reservation finally :)
[11:45] <keescook> superm1_: I'm local, so I'll just be at my place
[11:46] <superm1_> ah.  thats convenient.  saves a few hundred dollars in hotel
[11:46] <superm1_> imbrandon and i splitting the reservation
[11:46] <superm1_> are you attending the tutorials at all?
[11:47] <keescook> that's on tuesday?  I'm not sure; I'd like to
[11:47] <superm1_> well i think they're pricey if your not talking
[11:48] <superm1_> 245 for just the tutorials day
[11:48] <superm1_> 895 for the whole thing tutorials + conferences
[12:13] <superm1_> keescook, i poked an archive admin to ack the libhdhomerun source package today.  will they still have to ack the resulting binary too, now, or is that implied in the source package ack?
[12:14] <superm1_> eg will the binary end up in NEW now too
[12:18] <keescook> I think the binary will be NEW also, but that's usually quick
[12:18] <superm1_> ah okay.  well as soon as that clears i've got a new version to upload :)
[12:19] <superm1_> they gave me permission to package the firmware too, but i almost think it will be easier to set up a firmware installer package, a'la flashplugin-nonfree
[12:19] <superm1_> to grab it on the fly
[12:20] <superm1_> rather than having to fight with licensing since it was exclusive permission on the firmware