[12:29] <Seveas> somerville32, ping
[12:29] <somerville32> seveas: pong
[12:30] <Seveas> somerville32, I just updated the CC agenda and added a very short summary of last meeting and a list of new members from this meeting
[12:30] <Seveas> may be nice for UWN
[12:30] <somerville32> Thanks :]
[01:12] <kitche> hey just so you guys know it seems like a broken bot joined #ubuntu trying to do the exploit
[01:13] <somerville32> * [gikidBot]  (n=gikidBot@d14-69-133-208.try.wideopenwest.com): gikidBot
[01:13] <somerville32> * [gikidBot]  #ubuntu #mopar
[01:14] <kitche> yea that's the one it didn't output the whole thing
[01:15] <somerville32> [19:10]  * gikidBot<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[01:15] <somerville32> [19:10]  <gikidBot> DCC
[01:15] <somerville32> [19:10]  * gikid<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu
[01:15] <somerville32> [19:10]  <gikid> lol
[01:15] <somerville32> [19:11]  * gikid<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has left #ubuntu
[01:15] <somerville32> * [gikid]  (n=gikid0@d14-69-133-208.try.wideopenwest.com): Daniel T
 CC SEND AOWITNAO)WTINAWTOINOWT#INAOWTINAOW#TINAOW#TINTAOINWT
[01:25] <somerville32> Attack in #ubuntu
[01:26] <kitche> and the bot didn't get klined either
[01:26] <johnblackhorse> kitche: the klining user is not present
[01:30] <LjL> look in the bantracker for wideopenwest.com
[02:50] <johnblackhorse> @lart somerville32
[02:51] <somerville32> ow
[03:10] <effie_jayx> lol
[03:16] <somerville32> [21:14]  <pip`> god sux cock in a big way
[03:16] <somerville32> [21:15]  <pppoe_girl> pip`, should be kicked by now
[03:16] <somerville32> [21:15]  <pip`> girl, please stfu ok
[03:18] <somerville32> johnblackhorse, ping
[03:35] <RedStamp> hello i was banned from ubuntu offtopic earlier for swearing... I am sorry.
[03:35] <RedStamp> I love that channel and would love to be welcome back
[03:36] <somerville32> Usually bans last 24 hours
[03:36] <RedStamp> bummer.
[03:36] <RedStamp> how are you somerville32?
[03:36] <somerville32> I'm doin' alright. How are you?
[03:37] <RedStamp> Good. I just got offered a good job but have to say no as I dont want to work weekends as have to balance work with kids
[03:37] <RedStamp> dont have kids man lol
[03:37] <somerville32> Aw : (
[03:38] <RedStamp> was my choice to have kid's and they are loveable.
[03:38] <RedStamp> when they're asleep
[03:47] <johnblackhorse> somerville32: if i'm not wearing my nalioth nick, i'm probably not available for stuff  :|
[03:48] <somerville32> okily dokily
[04:36] <Jordan_U> I think we have a troll in #ubuntu but I am not 100% sure
[04:36] <tonyyarusso> Jordan_U: nick?
[04:36] <Jordan_U> PwnDaWorld
 I HOPE I DONT KILL MY SELF OVER IT
[04:53] <somerville32> -offtopic
[08:52] <ubotu> In #xubuntu-offtopic, maxamillion said: !alt-support is <alias> FOR  alternative-support-#xubuntu
[08:52] <somerville32> lol
[08:52] <maxamillion> apparently i don't have privilages ...
[08:53] <somerville32> nope
[08:56] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, xipietotec said: !boys is have cooties
[08:57] <Madpilot> ...
[08:57] <somerville32> !bot-abuse > xipietotec
[08:57] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bot-abuse - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:58] <somerville32> !botabuse > xipietotec
[09:03] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, ToHellWithGA said: ubotu: boys is <reply>Boys are missing an X chromosome and replaced it with the ability to pee standing up.
[09:04] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, Amaranth said: !shi is <reply> The katakana character
[09:05] <Amaranth> aww
[09:06] <maxamillion> !botabuse > ToHellWithGA
[09:06] <maxamillion> bah! ... :/
[09:07] <somerville32> It appears that factoids longer then 20 characters barf
[09:08] <ubotu> In ubotu, xipietotec said: !xipietotec is a goof
[09:08] <somerville32> !botabuse > xipietotec
[10:24] <gnomefreak> !tor
[10:24] <ubotu> The #ubuntu channel and related channels ban users joining from anonymous gateways like tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc because the abuse:useful ratio is close to infinity:nothing -- project cloaks will let you join, otherwise you should simply not use an anonymizer.
[10:24] <ubotu> Attention tor users.  You may think you are anonymous, but you are not.  Please visit http://tor.unixgu.ru/ and see for yourself.   Please evaluate your need to use tor here on irc.  If you wish anonymity, Freenode offers cloaks of many different types. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[10:25] <gnomefreak> Seveas: you around?
[10:36] <gnomefreak> jenda: your staff arnt you?
[10:37] <jenda> yep
[10:37] <gnomefreak> jenda: you have the link for the tor/gpg cloaks?
[10:38] <jenda> j'sec...
[10:38] <gnomefreak> ty
[10:40] <jenda> gnomefreak: http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml#tor
[10:40] <gnomefreak> ty
[10:42] <jenda> np
[10:59] <gnomefreak> people really need to think before they grab packages :(
[11:17] <somerville32> !seen pricechild
[11:17] <ubotu> I last saw PriceChild (n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild) 10h 33m 3s ago, quiting: "Bye :)"
[11:17] <jenda> somerville32: he'll be here any moment now :)
[11:17] <somerville32> lol
[11:26] <somerville32> jenda: How much longer?
[11:26] <jenda> somerville32: no idea, it's a guess - he usually comes around this time :)
[11:26] <jenda> well, no, actually - in about an hour or two.
[11:27] <somerville32> doh
[11:27] <somerville32> jenda: Can you do it?
[11:28] <jenda> somerville32: what?
[11:28] <jenda> (I can do anything Pricey can)
[11:29] <somerville32> jenda: On the forums, I notice some people have been marked as "Ubuntu Developer"
[11:29] <jenda> aha
[11:29] <jenda> I can't do that ;)
[11:29] <jenda> Are you a dev?
[11:29] <jenda> I can request it, though.
[11:29] <somerville32> Xubuntu Developer
[11:29] <jenda> hmm.
[11:29] <jenda> I think it's limited to MOTU, though.
[11:29] <jenda> I can still request it.
[11:30] <jenda> somerville32: is there an identifiable group of Xubuntu devs?
[11:30] <somerville32> yes
[11:30] <jenda> (similar to the Motu)
[11:30] <somerville32> Yup
[11:30] <jenda> link?
[11:30] <somerville32> http://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team
[11:33] <somerville32> jenda: Would you be able to merge these two posts? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1997494#post1997494
[11:33] <jenda> sure
[11:33] <somerville32> thanks
[11:33] <jenda> somerville32: I'll ask about xubuntu.
[11:34] <somerville32> k
[11:34] <jenda> somerville32: so those five people are the ones with commit access to the xubuntu repos?
[11:34] <jenda> or, packages?
[11:35] <somerville32> That group doesn't dictate access
[11:35] <jenda> so, what is it?
[11:35] <jenda> (why merge those posts, BTW?)
[11:36] <somerville32> Member of xubuntu-team make Xubuntu happen
[11:36] <somerville32> It is just like the edubuntu and kubuntu teams
[11:36] <somerville32> As for the merge, I'm sure that heno meant to include Xubuntu
[11:37] <somerville32> People ARE going to be offended his didn't
[11:37] <somerville32> Infact, people already are
[11:37] <somerville32> One guy in #xubuntu was going to flame him, lol
[11:49] <jenda> ok
[11:49] <jenda> somerville32: you have to ask heno, though.
[11:50] <jenda> He can edit it in as well.
[11:50] <jenda> And I don't really have the right to do that.
[11:50] <somerville32> jenda: Can you poke him for me?
[11:50] <somerville32> I already pinged him
[11:50] <somerville32> and I need sleep
[11:51] <jenda> Can try, somerville32, can't promise.
[11:56] <somerville32> Speak of the devil
[11:56] <PriceChild> me? :s
 jenda: How much longer?
 somerville32: no idea, it's a guess - he usually comes around this time :)
[11:57] <PriceChild> What's up?
[11:57] <somerville32> It's ok
[11:57] <somerville32> Jenda already told me you can't do what I want, lol
[11:57] <PriceChild> hehe :)
[11:57] <PriceChild> what do you want?
[11:58] <jenda> PriceChild: xubuntu titles
[11:58] <jenda> PriceChild: see staff forum
[11:58] <jenda> somerville32: the thing is, on both accounts, that xubuntu isn't officially supported... so we're in a difficult situation.
[11:58] <somerville32> Ugh
[11:58] <somerville32> What are you talking about?
[11:58] <somerville32> Xubuntu is fully supported by Canonical
[11:58] <PriceChild> shouldn't they just get the standard dev title?
[11:59] <jenda> PriceChild: only MOTU get the dev title.
[11:59] <PriceChild> they can put that they do xubuntu specifically in their sig or something....
[11:59] <jenda> somerville32: hmm, it is, eh?
[11:59] <somerville32> jenda: Yes. Ask Crimsun.
[11:59] <PriceChild> jenda, yeah it is afaik...
[11:59] <PriceChild> just like edubuntu
[12:00] <jenda> I don't see Edgy Xubuntus in my shipit stack, but I'll check it somerville32 ;)
[12:00] <somerville32> jenda: It isn't in the shipit stack
[12:01] <somerville32> Xubuntu wasn't officially adopted by Canonical until later into the Dapper release cycle
[12:01] <jenda> somerville32: got a link about that?
[12:01] <jenda> (why isn't it in the Edgy stacks, then?)
[12:01] <somerville32> Oh, for Edgy
[12:01] <somerville32> link to this "stack"?
[12:02] <jenda> well, the one LoCo teams got - 500 edgy CDs
 We don't offer commercial support for it the way we do for Kubuntu and Edubuntu, nor do we make CDs, though we support some development and CD publishing and the software sits in main AFAIK
[12:03] <jenda> somerville32: however, he will edit it into the post.
[12:03] <jenda> We will have to discuss the titles with forum staff first - and I'll research it, first.
[12:03] <jenda> somerville32: sorry about the inconvenience, but I don't want to set a dangerous precedent.
[12:05] <jenda> somerville32: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1997631#post1997631
[12:06] <somerville32> There are three core-devs dedicated to Xubuntu
[12:06] <somerville32> gah
[12:19] <somerville32> seveas: ping
[12:39] <Seveas> somerville32, ?
[12:39] <Seveas> gnomefreak, ?
[12:40] <somerville32> Seveas: Would I be able to get ops in #ubuntu-offtopic or recommend that the access list be expanded to include a few more people? It has became accustomed to getting way out of control the last couple of days :(
[12:47] <PriceChild> Seveas, Oh I got back to my machine with my key on so all that with the bantracker is sorted now - not that I ever want to have to use it :)
[12:48] <Seveas> somerville32, no, PriceChild good :)
[12:48] <somerville32> @lart 28 seveas
[12:48] <somerville32> Interesting
[12:48] <PriceChild> haha
[12:48] <PriceChild> that was so funny :D
[12:48] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.mess.enabled False
[12:50] <somerville32> I think Seveas hasn't had a chance to catch lunch today so is a little grumpy :(
[01:08] <Music_Shuffle> .!spanish = !es, !fr = !french, but !pt != !portugues or !portuguese. :(
[01:09] <somerville32> !portueguese
[01:09] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about portueguese - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:09] <somerville32> !portugues
[01:09] <Music_Shuffle> .!spelling
[01:09] <Music_Shuffle> :P
[01:09] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about portugues - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:09] <somerville32> !portuguese
[01:10] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about portuguese - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:10] <somerville32> !pt
[01:10] <ubotu> Por favor use #ubuntu-br  ou #ubuntu-pt  para ajuda em portugus. Obrigada.
[01:14] <apokryphos> !portuguese is <alias pt
[01:14] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-ops, apokryphos said: !portuguese is <alias pt
[01:14] <apokryphos> !portuguese is <alias> pt
[01:15] <ubotu> I'll remember that, apokryphos
[01:15] <Music_Shuffle> Ty.
[02:08] <Seveas> apokryphos, why the !portuguese?
[02:08] <Seveas> no other language has that
[02:08] <apokryphos> I thought all others do
[02:08] <apokryphos> ubotu: spanish
[02:08] <ubotu> Para Espaol por favor usen #ubuntu-es, #kubuntu-es o #edubuntu-es, all obtendrn mas ayuda.
[02:08] <apokryphos> ubotu: greek
[02:08] <ubotu> #ubuntu-gr  #kubuntu-gr     /  #ubuntu-gr kai #kubuntu-gr gia Ellhnes xrhstes
[02:08] <Seveas> hmm
[02:08] <Seveas> they didn't have it before
[02:08] <Seveas> and imho it's a bit useless
[02:08] <apokryphos> I think it's a good idea
[02:08] <Seveas> otoh, it doesn't hurt
[02:08] <Seveas> so meh
[02:08] <apokryphos> right
[02:09] <Seveas> just add them for all languages kthxbye ;)
[02:09] <somerville32> *kthxbi
[02:09] <Seveas> !dutch is <alias> nl
[02:09] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:09] <Seveas> !nederlands is <alias> nl
[02:09] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:09] <Seveas> !deutsch is <alias> de
[02:09] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:09] <Seveas> !german is <alias> de
[02:09] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:09] <Seveas> !french is <alias> fr
[02:09] <ubotu> french is already known
[02:10] <Seveas> !franais is <alias> fr
[02:10] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:10] <Seveas> !francais is <alias> fr
[02:10] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:10] <Seveas> !espanol is <alias> es
[02:10] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:10] <Seveas> !espaol is <alias> es
[02:10] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:10] <jenda> floodin'
[02:10] <Seveas> !danish is <alias> dk
[02:10] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:10] <Seveas> !dansk is <alias> dk
[02:10] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:11] <Seveas> !italian is <alias> it
[02:11] <ubotu> italian is already known
[02:11] <Seveas> !italiano is <alias> it
[02:11] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:11] <Seveas> !russian is <alis> ru
[02:11] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:11] <Seveas> !no russian is <alias> ru
[02:11] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Seveas
[02:28] <jenda> Seveas: nice to see Mr. weirdo getting ops in -locoteams :)
[02:28] <Seveas> :D
[02:28] <jenda> I always thought he was a valuable contributor.
[02:29] <mneptok> ok, who stole my Mr. Weird title?
[02:29] <mneptok> +o
[02:30] <Seveas> jenda
[02:30] <jenda> I'm sorry, mneptok. I couldn't help it.
[02:31] <mneptok> she's had some surgery i'm unaware of?
[02:31] <jenda> yes, mneptok. Gender change, I'm male now.
[02:31] <jenda> :)
[02:31] <mneptok> congrats on the addadictomy
[02:31] <mneptok> ;)
[02:31] <jenda> Well, I have always been for most people, but just for you, consider it gender change ;)
[02:32] <jenda> :)
[02:32] <PriceChild> jenda will be whatever you want him to be 8-)
[02:32] <jenda> yep :)
[02:32] <jenda> whatever jenda, at least :)
[02:33] <jenda> haha :)
[02:33] <mneptok> i ...  I give up.
[02:34] <jenda> The title of Mr. weirdo is yours.
[02:34] <jenda> You deserve it.
[02:34] <jenda> OK, I'm off to study.
[02:34] <mneptok> s'ok, i know.
[02:34] <jenda> Seriously.
[02:34] <jenda> :)
[03:14] <PriceChild> Could we change !ops-#ubuntuforums please?
[03:14] <somerville32> Sure
[03:14] <somerville32> What do you want changed?
[03:14] <PriceChild> Need to add Vorian to the end :)
[03:14] <somerville32> kk
[03:15] <Seveas> !ops-#ubuntuforums
[03:15] <ubotu> Help! PriceChild, zenrox, byen, frodon, KiwiNZ, zenwhen, jdong, KingBahamut, nocturn, ubuntugeek, ubuntu_demon, darkmatter_, Brunellus, BuffaloSoldier, panickedthumb, jenda, rav_tux, Vorian, or k_mandla!
[03:15] <PriceChild> Thanks very much :)
[03:15] <somerville32> np
[03:28] <ompaul> gnomefreak: u about?
[06:03] <gnomefreak> Seveas:  you pinged?
[07:56] <Seveas> gnomefreak, because you did ;)
[07:56] <gnomefreak> i did?
[07:56] <gnomefreak> oops sorry
[08:01] <somerville32> seveas: ping
[08:02] <Seveas> pongerville32
[08:02] <jenda> hehe... don't think that highlighted him.
[08:03] <Seveas> me neither
[08:03] <Seveas> but he'll look in here again
[08:03] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, Ianman said: ubotu, that is the binary and has no DRI support
[08:04] <Seveas> !bot | ianman
[08:04] <ubotu> ianman: I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[08:04] <Seveas> !bot > ianman
[08:07] <somerville32> lol
[08:07] <somerville32> : P
[08:08] <somerville32> Seveas: I'm isolated the issue for the factoids
[08:08] <somerville32> factoid names can not be longer then 20 characters
[08:08] <somerville32> I'll make a comment on the bug in a second
[08:09] <Hawkwind> I was just given a 17" flat panel, AOpen F1713 monitor :-)
[08:09] <Hawkwind> http://www.shentech.com/aof117in120l.html
[08:19] <somerville32> ?!
[08:19] <somerville32> Why?
[08:22] <Hawkwind> Not sure to be honest.  I imagine it was stolen.  But it was given to me by my neighbor, who got it from someone else
[09:08] <jenda> Seveas: I'd say he _didn't_ look in here again :)
[09:28] <Seveas> jenda, cloak request for you :)
[09:29] <jenda> Seveas?
[09:29] <jenda> Did you forget about me? :(
[09:29] <jenda> ;)
[09:30] <Seveas> no :)
[09:30] <jenda> Damn.
[09:30] <Seveas> rpereira wants to be cloakd
[09:30] <jenda> ah, of course.
[09:30] <jenda> will do.
[09:49] <somerville32> -offtopic is getting rather inappropriate again
[10:07] <nixternal> heh
[10:07] <nixternal> i did that months ago
[10:07] <somerville32> hehe
[10:08] <somerville32> Everytime I peek in there they are either discussing drugs, sex, religion, politics, sexual orientation, something kinky and disgusting, or worse
[10:08] <somerville32> lol
[10:08] <nixternal> that's kids for ya
[10:09] <somerville32> Either that or someone is spamming ASCII pictures and/or whining about how much they want a girlfriend to "cuddle with, hold hands with, kiss, ..."
[10:09] <nixternal> heh, last spring there was this "chick" who would come on and try to cyber with me
[10:09] <somerville32> lol
[10:09] <nixternal> it wasn't long after that i left
[10:09] <nixternal> she was cool at first, very smart and a heck of a coder, but man she was whacked out
[10:09] <somerville32> lol
[10:10] <nixternal> imbrandon can tell you about her, he remembers her as well
[10:10] <nixternal> either she was the fastest googler in the world, or she was just that damn smart
[10:11] <somerville32> hehe
[11:11] <effie_jayx> troll at offtopic... an eye on xbillgates
[11:11] <effie_jayx> jenda,  are you there..?
[11:12] <effie_jayx> anyone?
[11:13] <jenda> effie_jayx: here
[11:13] <jenda> effie_jayx: I can't combat trolls in -offtopic :/
[11:13] <effie_jayx> :S
[11:14] <jenda> Well, I can... but only the good way ;)
[11:14] <effie_jayx> jenda,  talk him out of it at least...
[11:14] <jenda> word
[11:14] <effie_jayx> he's cool now
[11:16] <jenda> Looks like that worked :
[11:16] <jenda> :)
[11:16] <jenda> although... now I have to keep his attention in PM.
[11:17] <mc44> ah it is RedStamp
[11:17] <jenda> Ok, he seems he's reasonable.
[11:17] <jenda> Beep me if not, pls.
[11:17] <effie_jayx> now they want his head for his nick...
[11:22] <jenda> He's actually quite cool :)
[11:22] <jenda> Well, friendly at least.
[11:22] <jenda> Just exploring an unknown environment.
[11:22] <mc44> just a tendency to swear :)
[11:24] <effie_jayx> tamed by ubuntu tranquility :D
[11:24] <jenda> hehe
[11:25] <mc44> or just jenda tickling his belly :)
[11:26] <jenda> hehe
[11:26] <jenda> He's a 'laser operator'.
[11:37] <jenda> Oh well, there he goes. It was fun talking to him.
[12:15] <apokryphos> Seveas: didn't know about your CC secretary position. Great to hear =)
[12:15] <apokryphos> guess it was about time though, since you basically already were many months ago 8)
[12:19] <effie_jayx> apokryphos,  quite exciting being at the council meeting ... :D and seeing it happen ...
[12:19] <effie_jayx> it was my first ever ubuntu meeting
[12:19] <apokryphos> I find CC meetings pretty boring actually :P
[12:20] <apokryphos> including the last one :D
[12:20] <gnomefreak> they get boring if you attend enough of them
[12:20] <effie_jayx> but seeing someone that you know being recognized for his work with the comunnity
[12:20] <apokryphos> in the beginning days they weren't so bad; these days they go on for hours, crazy
[12:20] <effie_jayx> that moment really makes the rest of the meeting... and It was my firt one... :D
[12:21] <apokryphos> but I guess there's a lot more to talk about
[12:21] <apokryphos> effie_jayx: what, with membership status?
[12:21] <effie_jayx> apokryphos,  yep...
[12:21] <effie_jayx> :D
[12:21] <gnomefreak> if we didnt have so much time between meetings they would go alot faster
[12:21] <apokryphos> effie_jayx: it's a little abstract, I think it requires a lot of refinement
[12:22] <apokryphos> but people like it, so hey
[12:22] <effie_jayx> apokryphos,  Seveas being promoted ... it was a cool moment... (or is it just me sucking up) :S
[12:22] <gnomefreak> Seveas: since you have a new job with the CC does that mean we come to you and yell at you for not holding meeting every 2 weeks ;)
[12:22] <Seveas> gnomefreak, rad planet ubuntu
[12:22] <Seveas> read*
[12:22] <gnomefreak> i did
[12:23] <gnomefreak> i try to read it around once a week
[12:23] <apokryphos> way too many posts for that; read it every day ;-)
[12:24] <apokryphos> alright, out for now
[12:24] <Seveas> Ialways have it open
[12:24] <Seveas> I read a lot of feeds :)
[12:25] <gnomefreak> what do we do about people that appy for membership and dont show up. how long are they gonna stay on list?


[02:58] <tjaalton> pushed a build with the reverts to a ppa to see how it goes~~~~~~
[02:58] <tjaalton> ***********************************D
[03:39] <tjaalton> huh, must've been our cat :)


[15:35] <BluesKaj> so there's no #kubuntu-ca .maybe we should apply for one
[15:37] <genii> Heh, maybe
[15:37] <BluesKaj> seeing that canonical is going in a different direction now
[15:38] <BluesKaj> or maybe #kde-ca , who knows what will work
[15:40] <genii> BluesKaj: Well, if we have only 27 in this channel, I'm not sure how populated any other one might get.
[15:41] <BluesKaj> yeah genii , unfortunately
[15:41] <genii> BluesKaj: On a related note, I'm wearing my new Kubuntu shirt today :)
[15:44] <BluesKaj> show us :)
[15:45] <genii> BluesKaj: OK, give me a minute :)
[15:49] <genii> BluesKaj: http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=277879
[15:50] <BluesKaj> genii. looks cool , probly not available in my size tho :/
[15:51] <BluesKaj> <---tall and kinda heavy in the belly :)
[15:52] <genii> BluesKaj: I think next jussi will have some hoodies (hopefully)
[15:53] <BluesKaj> altho I'm down to 300 from 320
[15:53] <genii> BluesKaj: Yeah they are sold out now of the polo shirts, just checked at https://holvi.com/shop/Kubuntu
[15:54] <genii> BluesKaj: You should get some exercise soon shovelling when the snow finally hits! ;)
[15:55] <BluesKaj> genii. I'm going to start walking again now that my back is so much better
[15:56] <BluesKaj> been lazy this last yr or so
[15:56] <genii> Yeah walking is about the best overall, maybe aside from swimming
[15:57] <BluesKaj> yup
[15:59] <BluesKaj> we have pool facilities available for the townsppl at the sports complex here  , but it's such pita to go thru the rigmarole
[16:00] <genii> Now that I'm not doing physical labour every day I'm starting to notice how out of shape I am and gaining a bit of weight. Since I was always between 125-130 ( for like 30 years ) it feels weird. Not much but I notice it now.. I'm up to 137 atm
[16:01] <BluesKaj> older one gets the more difficult to get rid of the excess
[16:02] <genii> Guess I'll have to sign up at the Y for swimming
[16:03] <BluesKaj> not fond of chlorinated pools ...swam at the Y for 4 yrs as a kid ... had skin probs for a yr afterwards
[16:04] <genii> I remember my doctor trying to help me put on weight, I was consuming 20,000 to 25,000 calories every day but only went up 3 pounds after a couple months of this.
[16:04] <genii> Now it's just creeping up on me
[16:04] <BluesKaj> wow , you must mean2000-2500 ?
[16:05] <BluesKaj> that's alotta cals
[16:06] <genii> No, 20 thousand to 25 thousand :) Turns out I have a thyroid situation which makes it almost impossible to gain weight normally
[16:06] <BluesKaj> 2200 is std requirement for most ppl
[16:06] <BluesKaj> are you on thyroid meds ?
[16:07] <BluesKaj> must be hyper-thyroidism
[16:07] <genii> I was drinking about 15-20 cans of Ensure every day, plus usually a box of cereal in the morning, 2-3 subs at lunch, couple large pizza at dinner, 2 litre containers of ice cream, etc
[16:08] <genii> BluesKaj: Not on meds (currently). My sister has same situation but after she had her kids needed to go on meds for it.
[16:09] <BluesKaj> that's alot of processed food , odd that you didn't gain water weight just from the sodium content
[16:09] <genii> I guess hormone changes etc
[16:09] <BluesKaj> wife is hypo , takes levothyroxin
[16:11] <genii> My current doctor is more worried about my cholesterol and hypertension
[16:12] <BluesKaj> yeah , that's probly more important
[16:15] <genii> Heh. I remember when he saw the results of my cholesterol testing, he thought the lab messed up and sent me back for a re-do. And then the second time it was even higher. And then he told me it's the highest bad cholesterol he'd ever seen from someone that wasn't obese.
[16:15] <genii> So now it's the diet thing, trying not to eat so much garbage, etc
[16:18] <BluesKaj> Ive 'be been on the edge of diabetes for a few yrs now, and my ulcer incident put me over the edge so now I'm looking at watching my diet and blood sugar levels , the fun is over til I get stabliized
[16:19] <BluesKaj> havent had a beer in over a month ...wife is convinced it's the beer that's to blame, not my food diet
[16:20] <BluesKaj> 12beer /wk isn't a ridiculous amount
[16:20] <genii> Beer in moderation isn't bad. A dozen a week is totally fine
[16:20] <genii> A dozen a day, that's another matter....
[16:21] <BluesKaj> genii. lots greens and veggies and protein and a few natural carbs is the way to go
[16:21] <genii> My main problem is I like to eat pork chops :)
[16:22] <BluesKaj> hehe, a dozen a day, gawd ...don't think I could handle that physically or mentally
[16:23] <BluesKaj> chops is good , red meat for hemoglobin / iron is important
[16:24] <BluesKaj> and protein of course
[16:24] <BluesKaj> cut away the fat , that's all
[16:25] <genii> I have a pretty regular routine of after work on Mon, Wed, Fri to go have 2-3 Guinness around the corner, then home for dinner ( usually something like salmon with spinach and a salad on the side)
[16:26] <genii> In my 20s the roofing crew I was on, we used to drink insanely every night, so this is a major reduction in alcohol for me!
[16:33]  * BluesKaj nods
[20:51]  * genii makes another pot of coffee
[20:55] <genii> BobJonkman1: Should it be posted to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ca/ ?
[20:56] <BobJonkman1> genii: Yes, I'm just creating an Agenda page now.
[20:56] <genii> OK, cool
[20:58] <BobJonkman1> Conveniently, I created a template some time ago. But I'm having a bit of trouble logging in.  The Ubuntu OpenID server isn't responding
[20:58] <BobJonkman1> Never mind, I'm in now
[20:58] <genii> Odd, I just logged in without issue.


 Is telegram offline?  No comments for over ~7hrs across multiple channels...
 @DarinMiller, are you in russia? hehehe
 j/k, everything normal here including kde neon channel and others
[11:07] <BluesKaj> Hi Folks
 https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-cuts-fake-ad-blockers-from-chrome-store-were-you-among-20-million-fooled/
[14:50] <zys> help
[14:53] <diogenes_> !ask | zys
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/ScxOOW0j/file_5955.jpg Finally🙂👍
 A disabled secure boot by entering bios settings
 Thank you all again
[15:49] <D0U91E> so quiet in here you can hear a 'ping' drop
 i forgot how i got into the telegram relay lol
 i kinda fell into the relay of this channel this morning, can someone remind me how i did that for a friend? :)
[19:00] <shahzad> After fresh install --> Boot --> Black blinking cursor ONLY!
[19:01] <shahzad> I have googled and found several blogs suggesting to modify boot with nomodeset etc.  But i can never get to the screen where i can modify this.  I do have a NVIDIA GT FX55 series
[19:02] <shahzad> any help is greatly appreciated!
[19:03] <diogenes_> shahzad, do you see grub menu when you boot?
[19:05] <shahzad> I do not.  "Checking NVRAM" are the very quick last famous letters that i see before getting the blinking cursor
[19:06] <diogenes_> shahzad, I mean when you start the pc you have to see the grub which is offering you to boot kobuntu or advanced settings and bla bla bla
[19:07] <Lard> sounds like it's not even getting that far but isn't actually reporting an invalid system disk
[19:08] <Lard> maybe change to legacy boot mode from UEFI in BIOS?
[19:08] <shahzad> oh and unfortunately i don't see that.  So the flow: I get the BIOS boot screens and related information --> a flash of 'Checking NVRAM' --> blinking.
[19:10] <diogenes_> shahzad, that's very very strange
[19:10] <shahzad> Indeed!  I can install the OS successfully but the darn booting w/out the InstallerUSB just sin't playing nice
[19:12] <shahzad> I am trying to switch from WindowsOS to Linux and this hump might just push me back to Windows.  Been trying to resolve this boot issue with no avail
[19:14] <om26er> shahzad: well try a different version of Kubuntu, maybe ?
[19:15] <diogenes_> shahzad, looks like a hardware problem
[19:15] <shahzad> it is hardware issue!  I have tried Linux Mint Mate and Ubuntu and same issues
[19:16] <shahzad> more like Graphics card
[19:16] <diogenes_> shahzad, yep, then it's hardware, does windows boot fine?
[19:16] <shahzad> yes
[19:16] <om26er> shahzad: which version of those OS have you tried ?
[19:16] <shahzad> never had issue with Windows
[19:16]  * om26er thinks its more like hardware support issue than the actual hardware issue.
[19:16] <shahzad> Across all of them the latest
[19:16] <diogenes_> shthen my advice is to install windows and update your bios to the latest available version, then try linux again
[19:16] <shahzad> it's mainly graphics card issue
[19:20] <ConIT> hi
[19:22] <shahzad> hmmm...this is interesting.  While in my BIOS, i selected 'default' settings on everything and now I do get the 'GRUB' boot screen and able to log in
[19:23] <shahzad> wondering what setting in BIOS was preventing it ... Virtulaziation turned on?
[19:25] <om26er> virtualization most probably got nothing to do with boot.
[19:25] <om26er> Wonder if your system had switchable graphics and now its using Intel, shahzad
[19:26] <shahzad> om26er, while within the OS is there a way to tell (GUI or terminal)?
[19:28] <om26er> shahzad: try: glxinfo | grep OpenGL
[19:28] <om26er> might need to install mesa-utils
[19:28] <om26er> ...in terminal
[19:30] <user|50698> :)
[19:33] <shahzad> om26er, it says "Vendor string: nouveau"
[19:33] <shahzad> man may be i had too high of hopes with Linux but computer just froze!  I thought freezing was for Windows only
[19:35] <om26er> nvidia support in this land isn't always great unfortunately.
[19:35] <om26er> if possible try switching off nvidia completely in bios settings and you'll be in a new world
[19:36] <shahzad> thank you.  If i were to change my graphics card, what cards have better Linux support
[19:38] <shahzad> it's probably a Newbie thing on my part but isn't Kubuntu 17 supposed to be solid?  Trying to adjust the height of the task bar just froze the computer seconds time in a row
[19:52] <shahzad> thank you for all the help
[21:12] <Guest29709> hi all
[22:16] <metalbiker> is there a way to turn on the night light where it warms the screen like it ubuntu gnome does?
[22:18] <acheronuk> if you are running X there is the app redshift to install, and a plasmoid to control it
[22:26] <metalbiker> acheronuk: ok. is x a display server? i'm testing kubuntu 18.04 LTS from default. so whichever it's using, then that's it.
[22:29] <acheronuk> metalbiker: correct
[22:29] <acheronuk> the packages are redshift and plasma-applet-redshift-control
[22:29] <metalbiker> ok cool
[22:30] <metalbiker> thank you kindly! i'll check it out for sure


[01:39] <jrwren> greg-g: i'm gonna be opposite of rick_h_ and say - don't use venvs. use debs :)
[01:40] <jrwren> greg-g: so yeah, just whip up python use python system packages from ubuntu.
[01:40] <jrwren> greg-g: you on debian? then I can't help :p
[01:40] <jrwren> greg-g: ubuntu has nice python packages, and if it is missing 1 or 2, I can usually package them up in no time.
[01:41] <cmaloney> evening
[01:42] <cmaloney> venvs atre awesome
[01:42] <cmaloney> some commands i write a wrapper to execute
[01:48] <jrwren> venvs are a crutch for the weak :p
[02:09] <greg-g> jrwren: cmaloney this is what another buddy recommended: http://paste.debian.net/160032/
[02:09] <greg-g> venv's, basically
[02:09] <greg-g> he followed up with:
[02:09] <greg-g> 00:50 < paulprote> If you want a less heavy-handed way, but similarly  effective and more standard, you can make a 'setup.py'  that lists the packages *without* version numbers, and  './bin/pip install --editable . ' and 'bin/pip freeze  > requirements.txt'
[02:09] <greg-g> 00:50 < paulprote> Yeah I think that's better but now I have confused you  by making two suggestions oops.
[02:12] <jrwren> greg-g: so... why would you do that if your goal is to whip up a quick python script.
[02:12] <jrwren> greg-g: if you are starting some big ass project, sure.
[02:13] <jrwren> but if you are just whipping some up script????
[02:13] <greg-g> use case: writing a report generator from our phabricator install
[02:13] <greg-g> it might evolve over time, but yeah, light weight mostly
[02:14] <greg-g> the annoying bit before was when i switched from one laptop to another and it didn't work due to missing dependencies etc (ubuntu vs debian)
[02:14] <greg-g> (and I want others to maybe use it, others in our org, that is)
[02:19] <_stink_> i always make a virtualenv for a new thing, no matter the size.
[02:20] <_stink_> jrwren: take that!
[02:20] <greg-g> :)
[02:20] <_stink_> i do keep a generic virtualenv with ipython and requests, maybe simplejson installed for testing and such
[02:20] <jrwren> i used to, then i realized, I was being stupid.
[02:20] <_stink_> that i *might* use for really simple stuff
[02:20] <_stink_> haha
[02:21] <jrwren> greg-g: so... sharing python code sucks becuase all your uses will either need to create a venv and install all the deps, or install all the system deps.
[02:22] <greg-g> jrwren: isn't that what the ./bin/pip install -r requirements.txt step does for them?
[02:22] <greg-g> doesn't that make it easy for them to get the right dependencies?
[02:22] <jrwren> greg-g: yes
[02:22] <jrwren> for some def of "easy"
[02:23]  * greg-g is honstly trying to figure it out
[02:23] <jrwren> if you use any modules which are C, then you also need a build env and any c libs that those modules need.
[02:23] <jrwren> it can be a pain compared ot "just apt-get install these pkgs"
[02:23] <greg-g> I doubt C will come into my little report generator :)
[02:23] <greg-g> sure
[02:23] <jrwren> dunno.
[02:23] <jrwren> gonna use a DB?
[02:23] <jrwren> psycopg2? :)
[02:24] <greg-g> nope, it's a one time run thing
[02:24] <_stink_> another reason i like virtualenvs every time is because i frequently run old LTS installs, and i can get new libs from pypi
[02:24] <greg-g> the main dependency: https://github.com/disqus/python-phabricator
[02:24] <greg-g> alright, almost to my bus stop, thanks you two
[02:24] <greg-g> friday starts.... now.
[02:25] <jrwren> gl
[02:25]  * _stink_ puts on the techno
[02:25] <jrwren> apt-cache search says greg-g will be using venvs and pip :)
[02:25] <_stink_> hehe
[02:45] <rick_h_> greg-g: so it depends on what this is for. if it's something you use on your system a lot I just sudo pip install
[02:45] <rick_h_> greg-g: so httpie, some python tools for vim, etc I always just system install
[02:45] <rick_h_> greg-g: if it's something more experimental then yea, I'll venv it in ~/src/xxx
[02:45] <rick_h_> greg-g: and if it's really big/hairy/etc I'll say just whip up an lxc and system install it in there
[02:46] <rick_h_> but then you're an ssh away from using it each time
[02:46] <rick_h_> and yea, avoid python system packages unless it's somethig production and you can wait 6mo for an update
[02:47] <rick_h_> and are willing to run non-LTS packages
[02:50] <greg-g> :)
[02:54] <jrwren> <3 system packages.
[02:54] <jrwren> instant deploy FTW
[02:54] <rick_h_> I love them too
[02:54] <rick_h_> but find them to not work out well for fast moving things like libraries to things like clouds/etc that don't fall under "I can wait for next release" and "synced with distro release" schedules
[03:11] <cmaloney> Yeah, I'm with rick_h_ on this
[03:11] <cmaloney> if it's something like jedi where I need it over multiple projects, or something I use often then it gets sudo pip install ..
[03:12] <cmaloney> other things like galileo (libfitbit) get venvs with scripts
[03:12] <jrwren> hrm... for all my smack talk about system packages, I built a venv for flexget just last night.


 Hey the brazilian channel has no ops or anyone on the channel
[09:42] <k1l_> #ubuntu-br seems dropped?
[09:44] <k1l_> sorry, was #ubuntu-br" . maybe we should make there a whitespace in the bots message?
[09:44] <k1l_> !br
[12:56] <hggdh> k1l_: the channel is there
[12:57] <hggdh> and it does have people in
[13:32] <k1l_> hggdh: yes, i (and the user complaining) was trapped by the bots message. if you click on the channelname mentioned in the message you join #ubuntu-br"
[13:33] <k1l_> so imho, we should make a whitespace after each channel name mentioned by the bot.
[14:40] <hggdh> k1l_: ah, OK. I agree. Someone with bot rights should do it, I do not have them rights
[14:50] <tsimpson> you both have access to change factoids
[14:51] <hggdh> !br
[14:53] <hggdh> !no br is <reply> Por favor, use #ubuntu-br para ajuda em português. Para entrar no canal por favor faça "/join #ubuntu-br " sem as aspas. Para a comunidade local portuguêsa, use #ubuntu-pt. Obrigada.


[12:05] <kiko> I don't see why uploading would be difficult -- it's a simple post to a form
[12:05] <kiko> there are actually third-party tools that post for you IIRC
[12:06] <clahey> It's a simple post to form for a tarball or do I have to post each po file?
[12:06] <clahey> Oh, third party tools is cool.
[12:06] <kiko> you can do either
[12:06] <clahey> I do like the interface.
[12:06] <kiko> tarball or pofiles
[12:06] <clahey> Oh, posting a tarball wouldn't be so bad.
[12:06] <kiko> we've got an XMLRPC UI that makes things slightly more convenient
[12:06] <kiko> err
[12:07] <kiko> a planned XMLRPC UI
[12:07] <kiko> but in your case the main issue is really automating downloads.
[12:07] <clahey> That's just downloading a tarball and expanding it, right?
[12:07] <kiko> correct.
[12:07] <clahey> Do you guys support individuals downloading and uploading po files so they can do their processing locally?
[12:07] <kiko> sure
[12:08] <kiko> that's one of the workflows rosetta supports
[12:08] <clahey> And then it intgrates with what's there?  Cool.
[12:08] <kiko> yes
[12:08] <kiko> you also get to control who decides which translations are official
[12:08] <clahey> Your UI is the nicest looking one I've seen.
[12:08] <kiko> so you can have a trusted group of translators
[12:08] <kiko> and then community translators can add suggestions for their posterior review
[12:08] <clahey> Yeah, I saw that.  Very neat.
[12:08] <kiko> thanks, it's been a lot of work to get there.
[12:09] <clahey> Actually, we could totally make it so that editing the po files from svn wasn't an option.  If you want to edit a po file, you have to get it from rosetta and submit it there.
[12:09] <kiko> there are already some products that use that policy
[12:10] <clahey> I noticed there are suggestion areas.  If you're an official translator, do you get a checkbox you can mark so you don't have to copy it?
[12:10] <kiko> jordi's the best guy to tell you because he is community ninja
[12:10] <kiko> clahey, not yet, but there's a patch that does it -- there are some UI concerns with the way the form works that makes it a non-straightforward decision, but we will have an expedited review UI
[12:11] <kiko> carlos is working on a change which allows you to zoom into specific strings and see their history, and all suggestions
[12:11] <kiko> next steps from there are allowing for ajax-style navigation, and also for allowing one-click accepts
[12:17] <mpt> kiko!
[12:17] <kiko> oh-oh, what did I say!
[12:18] <mpt> kiko, don't worry, you're not in *that* much trouble
[12:18] <clahey> kiko: Cool.  We'll discuss it here.  Rosetta looks awesome.
[12:18] <kiko> clahey, great to hear. be sure to let me know if you need anything.
[12:39] <kiko> wtf is up with pqm
[12:39] <kiko> ah I know
[12:39] <kiko> it must be that lifeless is on a plane.
[12:41] <sivang> dudes, how do I see translations by a specific person ?
[12:42] <matsubara> sivang: /people/$person/+translations i think
[12:42] <kiko> sivang, you can't easily today. and +translations is rife with timeouts and it only indicates templates not actual translations
[12:43] <sivang> yes, that is what I see now
[12:43] <sivang> https://launchpad.net/people/nir78/+translations
[12:43] <sivang> when I click a template, I see alist of people that translated there
[12:44] <sivang> so we currently have no way to evaluate membership of people to translation teams...
[12:44] <sivang> I kept sending them to do work on the Hebrew wiki, some of them did, some prefer to work through rosetta
[12:44] <sivang> :-)
[12:45] <sivang> how can I see then propsed translations?
[12:45] <sivang> (by a specific person)
[12:45] <kiko> sivang, ask them which translations they contributed to?
[12:45] <sivang> I did, they did not respond. I will re-ask
[12:45] <sivang> I mean, they told me "review my work on launchpad"
[12:46] <kiko> tell them "yes, launchpad is as big as africa, so where? "
[12:46] <sivang> hehe
[12:46] <sivang> at least you don't get parasites like when you dip in african water :)
[12:46] <kiko> that's a rumor
[12:46] <kiko> I have dipped and sipped from african water
[12:47] <kiko> I only got friendly parasites
[12:47] <sivang> and you don't have any hitch hiker with you? :)
[12:47] <kiko> I prefer to call them friends
[12:47] <sivang> some girl from here that went there, was digged a bite fly's cocon from her forehead. gross!
[12:48] <sivang> anyway, back to happy things :)
[12:48] <kiko> I got one of those in california
[12:48] <sivang> serious?
[12:49] <kiko> yeah. parasites exist even in developed countries!
[12:51] <sivang> Well, sure, but not in the same quantities probably. anyway, how was it removed eventually?
[12:52] <sivang> and what are those so called friend you say you dragged with you from their comfortable home on Africa? :)
[12:52] <lifeless> bye guys, me-> London
[12:52] <sivang> lifeless: easy flight!
[01:15] <sivang> kiko: do you have an idea if the pre-knits rocketfuel-get scripts are still applicable? or should I just use the instructions in RocketfuelToKnits, I don't have any branch I need to keep or so.
[01:27] <sivang> hmm, bzr upgrade takes a while over my checkout branch
[01:27] <sivang> and the disk howls
[01:49] <sivang> hrm, still converting
[02:08] <sivang> I hate sever drop off
[02:08] <sivang> server, even
[03:04] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[04:41] <elmo> who's responsible for bzrsyncd on gandwana?
[04:53] <BehemothNet60137> question
[04:54] <Gigawatts> i have now done the beginning of the registration process to ship ubuntu cd's twice
[04:55] <Gigawatts> and i never recieve an email
[04:55] <Gigawatts> and i know the email address is correct
[05:10] <mpt> spiv / jamesh / lifeless, skype call to discuss the next stage of MaloneSimplifications?
[05:11] <mpt> hmmm, spiv and lifeless aren't here
[05:11] <jamesh> mpt: sure.
[05:12] <mpt> brb
[05:36] <stub> Gigawatts: Could it be that you or your ISP think it is spam and are dropping it?
[05:36] <stub> I can give you a gmail invite if you want to test with another account
[05:47] <mpt> jamesh, "The reviewer must send in a small summary of the call (no more than a paragraph or so) including the time the call took to the lp-reviews list"
[05:49] <jamesh> mpt: thanks
[05:52] <mpt> argh
[05:53] <mpt> stub, ETA for fixing login on staging?
[05:53] <stub> mpt: Today if I can get my damn branch to land (broken behavior was being relied on by a load of our tests, so fallout :-()
[05:53] <stub> mpt: Actually, I can do a quick fix. Hang on...
[05:55] <stub> mpt: Ok - that should fix it (the same way that production happens to be working fine with this bug)
[05:56] <stub> Logging into staging will probably kill your production session information though so don't try and use both at the same time
[05:56] <stub> or it might work... dunno
[05:58] <mpt> thanks stub
[06:06] <spiv> mpt: sorry, was at lunch
[06:38] <Gigawatts> opps, sorry, was away for awhile
[06:38] <Gigawatts> stub, i checked my spam box, and nothing
[06:39] <Gigawatts> it was a hotmail account
[06:39] <Gigawatts> so i dont see a reason for it to not work, although i could try my gmail account also, see if that fixes it
[06:57] <Gigawatts> ok, well it worked instantly with gmail, wierd
[06:57] <Gigawatts> wonder why it doesnt work with hotmail?
[07:08] <stub> Maybe it is just taking time, maybe they are dropping the email outright rather than putting it into your spam folder. No idea.
[07:08] <Gigawatts> ok, well thankyou, and you might want to investigate why the emails arent going through to hotmail accounts
[07:08] <Gigawatts> adios!
[08:20] <SteveA> morning
[08:36] <troy_s> need a launchpad guru again
[08:56] <SteveA> hi troy_s.  what's up?
[09:13] <mpt_> Whenever I try to merge two of our overly-granular pages I disappear into a maze of classes and interfaces
[09:16] <stub> Welcome to Zope3!
[09:16] <stub> [09:16] <stub> You are in a maze of classes and interfaces, all alike.
[09:19] <spiv> > kill metaclass
[09:54] <carlos> morning
[10:09] <sivang> morning all
[10:12] <sivang> does anyone know if bzr upgrade --format=knit of a -built tree should never finish on a 1.8G laptop with 1G ram ? I left it over night to do so, seeing now it still did not finish. It basically brought the machine to a complete halt, and I had to switch to a VT to kill gdm an drestart it. (that was my only way out since X/GNOME were unresponsive)
[10:12] <sivang> I did so since I wanted to workaround having to re-checkout in the knit format
[10:25] <ddaa> wow
[10:25] <ddaa> you mean knit conversion of the launchpad tree?
[10:25] <ddaa> it's expected to take a very large amount of CPU and RAM
[10:26] <sivang> I see
[10:26] <ddaa> sivang: the proper upgrade procedure is to get the new knit-based launchpad, use it to prime a repository
[10:26] <sivang> so my machines didn't even stand a chance against it?
[10:26] <ddaa> then branch your existing weave branches in that repository
[10:26] <sivang> yes, I will do that now, but since my net connection is so crappy over the last couple of days,I figured to convert it on this laptop :)
[10:27] <ddaa> so you only effectively convert what code you have outstanding
[10:27] <ddaa> I do not know if your laptop stood a chance against it
[10:27] <sivang> yes, this is what RocketFuelToKnits descrbes, but since I Have not any outstanding code I thought to give it a try
[10:27] <ddaa> it is certainly possible to tweak the conversion code to change the RAM/CPU tradeoff
[10:28] <ddaa> from what you describe, you went out of RAM
[10:28] <ddaa> sivang: how much swap do you have?
[10:29] <sivang> seems so, machine became completely unresponsive
[10:29] <sivang> 1831368
[10:30] <sivang> hmm, I should probably allocate some more
[10:30] <ddaa> too much swap prevents the OOM killer from kicking in, which can lead to severe thrashing even if the runaway code does to have very good cache behaviour
[10:30] <ddaa> sivang: nope, less swap is better
[10:30] <sivang> ah
[10:31] <ddaa> when the kernel runs out of VM, it pick and SIGABRT a process
[10:31] <ddaa> (or something like that, maybe not strictly SIGABRT)
[10:32] <sivang> ah, but when swap is too big then it won't do that? even if it gets filled?
[10:32] <ddaa> Here, I have 1GB of RAM and roughly as much swap, and I never run out of VM unless something is quite wrong.
[10:32] <ddaa> sivang: the problem is that when the swap is too big
[10:32] <ddaa> it takes a long time to fill the VM
[10:33] <ddaa> and unless the runaway process has very good behaviour with only needing new pages, that times grows explosively with thrashing
[10:33] <sivang> ddaa: that is , substantially bigger then the physical size? I only have like twice swap as my physical ram.
[10:34] <ddaa> YMMV
[10:34] <sivang> I see
[10:34] <ddaa> in my personal experience, with 1GB RAM, 1GB of swap is a good value.
[10:34] <ddaa> though I could probably get away with less, as it's never nearly full on normal usage
[10:35] <sivang> I will reduce it to this value, but not retry converting here :)
[10:35] <ddaa> sivang: hint
[10:35] <ddaa> are you using evolution and spamassin?
[10:37] <sivang> evo yes,
[10:37] <sivang> the latter no
[10:37] <ddaa> I noticed that when Evo crashes, it tends to leave rogue spamd processes around, that slowly eat your VM
[10:37] <sivang> hmmm, interesting
[10:37] <ddaa> dunno if the problem applies with other setups
[10:39] <ddaa> slowly, as in a few MB for each rogue spamd. That become quite significant after a week (and a dozen crashes) of normal use...
[10:40] <sivang> hmm, what is port 48064 and port 46454 ? I did netstat before I stop that trashy process to see if something is connecting to the machine , and found those too
[10:41] <sivang> ddaa: Well, I usually tend to shut off my machine after finishing, so I don't think I will have too much opportunity to run into this
[11:00] <carlos> ddaa, sivang: you would need a bit more than 1GB of SWAP if you want to do suspend to disc
[11:02] <ddaa> point, I do not suspend to disc as it did not wake up when I last tried...
[11:02] <ddaa> and suspend to ram works fine
[11:04] <carlos> ddaa: yeah, I have the same problem... but it used to work ;-)
[11:05] <carlos> and i hope it will work again at some point
[11:05] <ddaa> think the distro guys could use some hardware
[11:06] <ddaa> I also had a regression in firegl accel spport in the radeon driver, needed to use the fglrx crap to get it back :(
[11:19] <mpt_> SteveA, yo
[11:20] <SteveA> hello mpt_
[11:21] <SteveA> are you around for a voice call, or done for the day?
[11:22] <mpt_> SteveA, a voice call would be good, since this'll be the last chance for a couple of weeks
[11:22] <SteveA> okay, let's do it
[11:22] <mpt_> ok, brb
[11:50] <sivang> ddaa: using rocketfuel-get should still be okay for getting the knitted checkout? as its just rsync out, should not be affected by it right?
[11:51] <ddaa> I do not use rocketfuel-get
[11:51] <sivang> ah
[11:51] <ddaa> but if it uses rsync, it should give you the same branch
[11:51] <ddaa> (a checkout is a different thing)
[11:51] <sivang> yes
[11:52] <carlos> jamesh: hi, do you owe me a review.... how's it going?
[11:53] <carlos> sivang: yeah, it should work. I use it and it works ;-)
[11:53] <carlos> sivang: first time will take a lot of time because the changes are huge
[11:55] <sivang> carlos: yes, almost like a new checkout probably :)
[11:56] <carlos> sivang: I guess
[11:58] <sivang> at least I'm downloading at 190KB/s , my net connection has stabilized a bit
[12:26] <stub> SteveA: Do I need to look into that SQLObject permissions thing?
[12:26] <ddaa> yay, third cscvs merge in 24 hours sent :)
[12:30] <stub> ddaa: I killed your last one maybe three hours ago - there was a hung 'nc' process. Seemed like old times ;)
[12:30] <ddaa> well, it succeeded
[12:31] <ddaa> it's the same old cvs server spawning crap
[12:31] <SteveA> stub: if it's something you can fix, then sure.  be nice to know what caused the problem.
[12:31] <stub> Wow... must have just been blocked waiting for all the children to be reaped, and killing the process unblocked it.
[12:32] <stub> SteveA: I might fix it, or I might make it worse. Imagine lifeless as the technician and me a monkey with a large wrench to belt things with.
[12:32] <ddaa> something about CVS sucking on cosmic magnitudes IIRC
[12:32] <stub> SteveA: I have no hope of determining the cause
[12:32] <SteveA> stub: whatever... i hope lifeless will get time to look into it when he arrives in london
[12:33] <SteveA> i don't think it is causing a serious problem now
[12:33] <stub> ok. if it isn't blocking I'll leave it.
[12:33] <ddaa> or ask lifeless to stop using that paranoid umask of his on chinstrap
[12:33] <SteveA> umask?
[12:34] <SteveA> that reminds me of an ubuntu logo idea someone came up with
[12:34] <ddaa> IIRC his DC accounts have a umask looking like 077
[12:35] <ddaa> which caused me no end of grief back when we needed to work on the same files
[12:35] <ddaa> but maybe I'm just completely off the mark
[12:37] <mpt> Wow, why is PQM taking so long
[12:38] <ddaa> stub: if the nc hangs keep causing problems, the issue is the local pserver spawning in the cscvs test suite. But I have no off-hand idea how to fix it.
[12:38] <ddaa> I remember looking at it in the past and concluding that it just was not fixable
[12:38] <SteveA> i'm unhappy about cscvs testsuite flakiness blocking launchpad commits to pqm
[12:39] <ddaa> SteveA: isn't pqm supposed to kill test suite runs that make no progress?
[12:40] <ddaa> that would mitigate that sort of issue
[12:40] <SteveA> i know that the idea has been discussed
[12:40] <SteveA> but i don't believe it does so right now
[12:40] <SteveA> is it possible to disable the specific cscvs tests that are causing this problem?
[12:41] <ddaa> Dunno off-hand. That might be a testing infrastructure that's needed by a lot of important tests.
[12:42] <ddaa> At least, that's needed to test the native pserver client implementation
[12:42] <ddaa> which is like a very critical piece of code
[12:42] <SteveA> is it tested on every launchpad commit to pqm?
[12:42] <ddaa> Supposedly.
[12:42] <SteveA> yet, the pserver client is independent of launchpad
[12:42] <SteveA> entirely so
[12:43] <ddaa> yes
[12:43] <ddaa> well
[12:43] <SteveA> so, let's have that *not tested* on launchpad commits
[12:43] <ddaa> not entirely
[12:43] <ddaa> it's dependent on things like symlinks in ./lib
[12:43] <ddaa> but nothing major
[12:44] <SteveA> it is dependent on no rogue "rm -rf /" in the launchpad code
[12:44] <SteveA> ddaa: are you able to make it so that the pserver client is not tested when we commit to launchpad?
[12:45] <SteveA> yet it is still tested when its code and code it actually depends on are altered
[12:45] <ddaa> that would require some action from lifeless
[12:45] <ddaa> in altering the pqm config
[12:45] <ddaa> also, I think you t
[12:45] <ddaa> should discuss the issue with him, since he knows the code
[12:46] <ddaa> so he has a handle on both ends of the problem
[12:46] <SteveA> okay.  please disable these cscvs tests for now.
[12:46] <SteveA> they are causing an immediate problem with all other launchpad developers
[12:46] <ddaa> okay, I'll look at how to separate them out of the main test suite
[12:46] <SteveA> tests are good.  but in order to be enabled, they must not cause a bad effect on the rest of the processes, particularly, they must not have any effect on stuff they don't depend on
[12:47] <SteveA> thanks ddaa
[01:01] <ddaa> would be nice if unittest grokked skipped tests :/
[01:23] <malcc> kiko, BjornT: Ping?
[01:23] <BjornT> hi malcc
[01:24] <malcc> BjornT: I'm hoping to get a review today on malcolmcleaton/launchpad/soyuz-pagetests-update, SteveA is tied up and suggested one of you guys might be able to help
[01:27] <BjornT> malcc: hmm, i don't think i have time to do it today. i'm on vacation today, and i have some other things planned. i'd be happy to do it tomorrow, though.
[01:27] <malcc> BjornT: Thanks, I'll come back tomorrow if I still need someone.
[01:39] <ddaa> SteveA: I think I can actually fix the problem with a trivial patch
[01:42] <ddaa> the nc invokation is used to setup a network-listening cvs server, needed for the tests that test that the native client can actually setup a TCP connection, as opposed to the protocol tests that pipe to a local server (which already has TERM-then-KILL cleanup, that was needed in the past)
[01:43] <ddaa> There's a wait in the code to let the test suite sleep some time until nc had the time to run. I think the breakage happens when the sleep is too short and the connection attempt fails, then nc sits waiting for a connection, and the test suite sits waiting for nc.
[01:44] <ddaa> the nc command looks like "nc -l -p 2401 -e path-to-server-script"
[01:44] <ddaa> adding a "-w 60" in here should prevent the lock up, nc sees no network activity for 60 seconds, it will terminate
[01:50] <doko_> carlos: ping
[01:50] <carlos> doko_: pong
[01:51] <doko_> carlos: can we look at the OOo translations next Tuesday afternoon?
[01:51] <carlos> look for any possible problem?
[01:51] <carlos> sure
[01:53] <carlos> doko_: what time?
[01:54] <doko_> carlos: after your fiesta^Wlunch?
[01:54] <carlos> :-P
[01:54] <carlos> ok
[01:55] <doko_> fine, which time?
[02:04] <Yannig> Hello everybody :)
[02:06] <carlos> doko_: 14:00 UTC
[02:06] <carlos> Yannig: hi
[02:07] <doko_> carlos: ok
[02:28] <stub> Thats twice in a row it looks like pqm completed but blocked waiting for one last nc process to die
[02:29] <ddaa> I'm on it
[02:29] <ddaa> There's also an obvious bug in the process reaping code
[02:29] <stub> Yup.
[02:59] <SteveA> re
[03:00] <mdz> cprov: as part of the edgy test, did you do any dapper-updates uploads?
[03:00] <mdz> cprov: we'll have several to do shortly after the release
[03:01] <ddaa> anybody remembers the magic python to quote file names in shell scripts?
[03:01] <cprov> mdz: no, but should work as we have breezy-updates currently
[03:02] <cprov> mdz: send me one of them, I can process it right now
[03:16] <ddaa> another silly question, is there an reliable way of telling that a process is listening to a port without actually opening a connection?
[03:17] <malcc> I think lsof will tell you, but I don't remember the exact dead chickens
[03:17] <ddaa> malcc: I mean, in a programmtic way that might get through into a test suite in rocketfuel
[03:18] <malcc> malcc: Oh :(
[03:18] <malcc> ddaa: Oh :(
[03:18] <malcc> malcc: Why are you talking to yourself you idiot?
[03:18] <ddaa> the specific problem is starting a nc-based server and having to wait until nc has started listening
[03:19] <ddaa> if we connect an close the connection, we have consumed the server
[03:19] <ddaa> and we cannot use the server script to signal us, because it's only execed after nc has received a connection
[03:20] <ddaa> I got it
[03:20] <ddaa> nc -l -p 1234 -v
[03:20] <ddaa> then read on stderr
[03:21] <ddaa> when it is actually listening, it will tell us
[03:23] <mdz> cprov: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/dapper-updates/
[03:24] <mdz> bradb: ubuntu-security is subscribed to this bug via one or more of its duplicates: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/43012
[03:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43012 in ubiquity "crash creating partman question dialog" [Major,Fix released]
[03:24] <mdz> bradb: how do I find out which one and fix it?
[03:24] <bradb> mdz: there's no automatic way. you'd have to click each dupe in the dupes portlet to find out. but teams can't be unsubscribed from bugs, unfortunately.
[03:25] <bradb> mdz: i'm curious, why does ubuntu-security not want to be subscribed to the dupe target?
[03:25] <cprov> ddaa: why not the usual approach ? if you want to test a server, probe it with the client. Not sure if your goal is to test the system "bind" or other system connection framework.
[03:25] <cprov> mdz: ok
[03:26] <ddaa> cprov: because it does not work there
[03:26] <ddaa> ddaa: we are setting up cvs pserver in the test suite using nc
[03:26] <ddaa> cprov:: we are setting up cvs pserver in the test suite using nc
[03:26] <cprov> ddaa: oops, then you make your point.
[03:27] <ddaa> to test that our native client can establish a TCP connection
[03:27] <ddaa> so it's a single shot gun
[03:28] <ddaa> is somebody available to review the patch to stop the cscvs test suite from blocking pqm?
[03:29] <cprov> ddaa: yes, i guess the popen('nc') can, at least, probe something is listening the socket in question, however doesn't ensure things will work as expected.
[03:29] <ddaa> popen
[03:29] <ddaa> live in the 21st century
[03:29] <ddaa> use subprocess :)
[03:30] <mdz> bradb: the bug has nothing to do with security
[03:30] <ddaa> nah, I got it, we needed nc to somehow signal us once it's listening, and the -v option does just that
[03:30] <mdz> bradb: they can be unsubscribed via the mail interface, which you can see in the comments I tried to do, but I didn't realize it was implicitly subscribed
[03:31] <mdz> bradb: perhaps unsubscribing a team should walk the duplicates and unsubscribe there as well?
[03:34] <mdz> bradb: when we are inconvenienced by a bug for months, and then discover a workaround, it is discouraging for that workaround to be referred to as a bug :-P
[03:35] <cprov> mdz: works, https://dogfood.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue
[03:37] <mdz> cprov: built and published already?
[03:37] <bradb> mdz: it's kind of a bug, IMHO, but my initial thought is that both the web ui and the email ui should allow you to unsubscribe yourself or teams of which you're a member, like the bug contacts ui.
[03:37] <mdz> bradb: I'm a member of the security team
[03:37] <cprov> ddaa: popen() was just to save types, however reliying on 'nc' syscall for test is a more last century thing than popen ;)
[03:38] <ddaa> give me a better way to set up a TCP-listening cvs pserver
[03:39] <cprov> mdz: not so fast, it's only in NEW, but should flow correctly
[03:39] <ddaa> cprov: and it's not a syscall, it's the nc CLI :)
[03:40] <mdz> cprov: why new, is the archive data on dogfood old?
[03:40] <cprov> ddaa: ohh another last century feature, pserver ... nevermind, do whatever you need to do
[03:40] <cprov> mdz: it's a 18th May copy
[03:40] <ddaa> cprov: you're right
[03:41] <ddaa> I'll drop cvs support in cscvs
[03:41] <ddaa> who cares about that old stuff anyway?
[03:45] <cprov> ddaa: you started it by blaming popen, remember ? okay, let's stop the noise
[03:50] <mdz> cprov: how do we open dapper-updates?
[03:51] <mdz> cprov: (in production)
[03:51] <mdz> or is it open already?
[03:51] <cprov> mdz: by releasing dapper (setting dapper state to released)
[03:51] <mdz> cprov: we can't do it earlier?
[03:52] <cprov> mdz: let me check, probably by setting it to frozen
[03:54] <ddaa> SteveA: nc hang bugfix for review: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileItA9m9.html
[03:54] <cprov> mdz: no, currently you can't, EXPERIMENTAL, DEVELOPMENT and FROZEN are considered open,
[03:55] <cprov> mdz: so you can't upload for UPDATES & SECURITY in a opened release.
[03:56] <cprov> mdz: you can try to fix it for next releases (for this is too late I guess), adding an intermediate state, but I'm not sure about the use-case, can you describe it to me ?
[03:57] <cprov> mdz: why can't we ship the changes that we alredy have in RELEASE ? does it happen any release or is a special case for dapper ?
[03:57] <mdz> cprov: we have some fixes that only affect upgrades, and not CD images
[03:58] <spiv> ddaa: I see cscvs stuff merged finally -- was the difference just lifeless's change to the pqm config to use check_merge?
[03:58] <mdz> cprov: we want to put them into dapper-updates now, rather than waiting until after we release CD images, so they have time to build etc.
[03:58] <mdz> and are ready when we put out the release announcement
[03:58] <cprov> mdz: I see
[03:59] <ddaa> spiv: yes, and some admin action to kill runaway processes created by the cscvs test suite...
[03:59] <spiv> ddaa: hence this change involving nc?
[03:59] <ddaa> spiv: yup
[03:59] <ddaa> spiv: SteveA wants me to disable some of the tests, but I think I can just fix the problem
[04:00] <ddaa> needed to have a closer look and actually read man nc
[04:00] <cprov> mdz: pockets concept isn't able to model such workflow as well, maybe it's an extra reason to change it soon
[04:00] <spiv> So long as the sourcecode/* checks are generally run, I don't care how it's fixed ;)
[04:01] <cprov> mdz: I'll add a note about this issue to be discussed in Paris, unfortunatelly it's the best we can do right now
[04:03] <SteveA> ddaa: in the mid-term, i want better test dependencies
[04:03] <SteveA> so that we're running the tests that make best sense for a given merge to pqm
[04:03] <ddaa> running all the tests all the time is a feature
[04:03] <ddaa> as it allows quickly catching when environment changes break some rarely modified code
[04:04] <SteveA> it's a misfeature
[04:04] <SteveA> if you're concerned about rarely modified code like that, then a special cron-job should submit requests to pqm weekly to test it
[04:04] <SteveA> but it shouldn't burden everyone with testing the code all the time, "just in case"
[04:05] <ddaa> I punt to lifeless
[04:05] <kiko> malcc, how may I help you?
[04:05] <ddaa> nothing in cscvs depends on launchpad by design
[04:06] <ddaa> in the same way as nothing in pybaz, or importd, or a number of third party libraries
[04:06] <malcc> kiko: It's ok, the ping was for a quick review but SteveA took it on
[04:15] <mdz> cprov: ok, thanks
[04:16] <ddaa> stub: it looks like pqm needs a gentle nudge again
[04:33] <ddaa> elmo: pqm ping
[04:42] <kiko> hey spiv: is there a way to pdb-step through a failing test
[04:42] <kiko> ?
[04:42] <kiko> in sqlobject?
[04:42] <spiv> kiko: with py.test?  probably.
[04:42] <kiko> oh, --pdb
[04:42] <elmo> ddaa: ?
[04:42] <kiko> spiv, do you have a moment for a drive-by sqlobject review?
[04:42] <spiv> Does putting "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()" not work? ;)
[04:43] <ddaa> elmo: pqm looks like it's stuck
[04:43] <spiv> kiko: sure.
[04:43] <ddaa> can you have a look and tell us what you do?
[04:43] <elmo> killed the nc
[04:44] <ddaa> elmo: thank you, it's unstuck now
[04:45] <ddaa> there's a patch in the queue that should tame those rogue nc
[04:52] <stub> beat me
[04:56] <kiko> spiv, can you explain to me how the "implicit ID column" works in SQLObject?
[04:57] <spiv> kiko: you mean how you don't need to do "id = IntCol()"?
[04:58] <SteveA> stub: hello
[04:58] <kiko> spiv, exactly. it then appears that the "id" column is not present in _SO_columnDict
[04:58] <kiko> which forces me to hack around it :-(
[04:58] <stub> SteveA: hi
[04:58] <SteveA> stub: niemeyer just pointed out that newInteraction() gets a stack trace on every call, in upstream Zope 3
[04:59] <SteveA> stub: removing this call should speed up ftests
[04:59] <SteveA>  lib/zope/security/management.py, line 91
[04:59] <spiv> kiko: right, it's special-cased pretty throughly.
[04:59] <SteveA> it is used only for debugging
[04:59] <kiko> spiv, isn't that the most stupid thing ever?
[05:00] <spiv> kiko: a bit, but it is pretty fundamental to how SQLObject works.
[05:00] <stub> Maybe. I suspect it won't be terribly noticeable though for launchpad as it will be overshadowed by db access, librarian startup/shutdown etc.
[05:00] <kiko> spiv, okay, I have a patch which does everything and includes icing on top
[05:00] <SteveA> stub: you gonna fix librarian startup/shutdown?
[05:00] <cprov> kiko: instareview on https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileX4bXAN.html ?
[05:01] <cprov> kiko: will ask dsilvers as well, maybe he remember some issue related to this
[05:01] <stub> SteveA: Eventually, yes.
[05:01] <SteveA> please sooner rather than later
[05:01] <SteveA> faster test runs speed *everyone* up
[05:05] <stub> SteveA: My trivial fix involving stopping invalids authenticating has grown with all the fallout. Shall I stick it in your review queue or general?
[05:07] <spiv> Using malone's email interface for an extended conversation makes for some pretty ridiculous subject lines!
[05:08] <stub> spiv: You are allowed to edit the subject line ;)
[05:08] <kiko> spiv, that's a bug
[05:08] <kiko> spiv, btw: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filemuQjOv.html
[05:08] <kiko> spiv, fixes prejoin for SQLRJ and SQLMJ and also fixes orderBy the RIGHT way.
[05:08] <kiko> all tests pass
[05:08] <spiv> stub: I do, but further replies keep making it silly again anyway ;)
[05:09] <spiv> Not that "all tests pass" is much guarantee of anything with SQLObject...
[05:10] <SteveA> stub: i'm not going to look at it for a couple of days, if so
[05:10] <ddaa> spiv: there must be a missing negation somewhere in that sentence
[05:10] <stub> I'll move it then
[05:10] <ddaa> spiv: nevermind ;)
[05:11] <kiko> spiv, well, orderBy is pretty fundamental I think. the special-cased if is stoopid
[05:11] <kiko> s/if/id
[05:13] <malcc> Somebody remind me where I can view the pqm queue?
[05:13] <kiko> malcc, pqm.launchpad.net
[05:13] <ddaa> watch lynx --dump http://pqm.launchpad.net/
[05:14] <ddaa> stick a -n 60 in there too
[05:14] <spiv> kiko: Rather than a sequence of "if self.feature_foo: results = results.feature_foo(self.feature_foo)", can we replace that with just passing some keyword args to the select results?
[05:14] <malcc> ddaa: Thanks
[05:14] <spiv> kiko: something like results.clone(prejoins=self.prejoins, orderBy=self.orderBy, ...)
[05:15] <spiv> kiko: I'm guessing the answer is "no, it's not quite as simple as it looks", but just in case...
[05:16] <kiko> spiv, i'll give it a go, let me check what the defaults are.
[05:17] <spiv> (I could almost imagine letting FooJoin take **kwargs that it will pass through to results.clone(**kwargs))
[05:18] <kiko> okay but that's a larger change
[05:18] <kiko> yes, it works
[05:18] <spiv> If it's more complex, it's probably not worth it.
[05:18] <spiv> It's more likely to have unexpected side effects too.
[05:19] <spiv> Ah well.
[05:19] <spiv> kiko: I'll take the rest of this review to email.
[05:20] <kiko> spiv, I'll get you a new diff
[05:20] <spiv> Heh, ok.
[05:20] <kiko> spiv, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filetl1mio.html
[05:45] <kiko> stub, please remember to clean up the dupe shipit queries so we can have a fresh oops report tomorrow
[05:45] <kiko> spiv, looking that bad?
[05:46] <spiv> kiko: nah, I spent a bit of time going "that's wrong! rant, edit, ... oh, it's actually only slightly wrong, delete that and put small comment there instead."
[05:46] <spiv> ;)
[05:47] <kiko> nothing gives you the same pleasure as deleting bits of horrible code
[05:48] <matsubara> kiko: stub already did it. I talked to him early today.
[05:49] <kiko> ah rock on
[05:56] <spiv> kiko: review sent
[05:59] <kiko> thanks!
[06:07] <spiv> kiko: btw, when prejoin stuff going to be submitted to upstream?
[06:08] <spiv> kiko: was it prejoins or something else jdahlin was going to push upstream?
[06:09] <kiko> prejoins, yes
[06:09] <kiko> he has some nokia work to finish off this week and then he was going to do it
[06:10] <spiv> Cool.
[06:18] <ddaa> the cscvs code makes pychecker crash...
[06:18] <ddaa> how ironic
[06:19] <spiv> ddaa: that's not as unusual as it should be :(
[06:19] <spiv> pyflakes is less flaky
[06:19] <ddaa> pyflakes does not report pep8 outrages
[06:20] <ddaa> btw, nice trick: python -tt `which pyflakes` file.py
[06:20] <ddaa> checks for flakes and tabs in one command
[06:21] <elmo> pyflakes is outrageously useless
[06:21] <elmo> pylint is nice if you turn off some of the more random stylistic nitpicks
[06:22] <ddaa> python is all about stylistic nitpicks
[06:22] <spiv> And I'm sleepy!  G'night all.
[06:22] <ddaa> the more you encode style into the law, the less people waste time arguing about style
[06:22] <ddaa> pep8 is a great feature of python
[06:39] <kiko> spiv, I hate SQLObject's stupid styles crap
[07:11] <clahey> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+translations
[07:11] <clahey> What does it mean "If Ubuntu is using launchpad for translations"?
[07:11] <clahey> Don't we know that it is?  :)
[07:25] <clahey> kiko: So, we'd like to try out rosetta.
[07:26] <clahey> kiko: Do we just register as a product in launchpad, or is there an application process?
[07:28] <clahey> kiko: Oh, does Rosetta handle plural forms properly?
[07:28] <carlos> clahey: what do you want to try?
[07:28] <carlos> rosetta usability? or translate your own project?
[07:28] <clahey> carlos: So, I work on Democracy Player and we would like to translate our project.
[07:28] <carlos> clahey: yeah, the gettext plural forms
[07:28] <clahey> Excellent on plurals.
[07:28] <carlos> clahey: I guess it uses .po files and gettext, right?
[07:28] <clahey> So, I was hoping we could create a Rosetta project and then try out the interface for a day or two before we announce it to our people.
[07:28] <clahey> Yep.
[07:29] <clahey> I know that it would show up on the Rosetta pages before we announced it.
[07:29] <carlos> clahey: you need to follow the instructions at wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ
[07:29] <clahey> Oh, if I upload a new .pot file, does it do the msgmerge, or should I do that by hand and just upload new copies of all of the translations?
[07:30] <carlos> clahey: we do the merge
[07:30] <carlos> all .po files are updated automatically when you upload a new .pot file
[07:30] <carlos> so translators will work always with latest strings
[07:31] <clahey> Excellent.
[07:31] <clahey> Do you happen to know what happens if we accidentally delete some strings from the pot file and add them back in the next upload?
[07:32] <carlos> no translation will be removed
[07:32] <carlos> they will be hidden until you upload the fixed .pot file again
[07:34] <clahey> Perfect.
[07:34] <clahey> Oh, so the policy page says that Rosetta translators will take care of the translations.
[07:34] <clahey> What about the people we have that want to translate our app (or have already started?)
[07:35] <clahey> Do we get to create accounts for them and mark them as official for our product?
[07:35] <carlos> clahey: we encorage people to use Ubuntu translators teams
[07:35] <carlos> clahey: they would join those teams
[07:36] <carlos> and translate your product
[07:36] <carlos> another option is leave it open to anyone to do translations
[07:36] <clahey> So we can't create accounts for them, but you could?
[07:36] <clahey> Ah, so either everyone can translate or only "Ubuntu translators team"?
[07:36] <carlos> well, anyone can create their own account
[07:36] <carlos> we have a third option
[07:37] <carlos> create translation teams for your product
[07:37] <carlos> but usually, we think is better to use Ubuntu teams
[07:37] <carlos> clahey: but you have the last word on it
[07:37] <carlos> you are the owner of your product
[07:38] <clahey> Can we mark our text as translatable by either the Ubuntu translation team or our own?
[07:38] <carlos> clahey: yes
[07:38] <carlos> clahey: adding Ubuntu teams as a subteam of yours
[07:39] <clahey> Cool.
[07:39] <clahey> We can decide on which of those to do.
[07:40] <clahey> I wonder if I can get a 639 code for Pig Latin.
[07:41] <carlos> clahey: our FAQ has documented what do you need to do to get such iso code
[07:42] <clahey> I'm filling out the form right now.
[07:42] <clahey> I just need to get a source of lots of documents.
[07:44] <clahey> Bible translation should help.
[07:44] <clahey> Anyway, that's a waste of time.
[07:47] <clahey> The FAQ isn't clear to me what to do once I've "mailed the upstream maintainers", which is of course, unnecessary as that's me.
[07:47] <clahey> Well, the team I'm on...
[07:52] <SteveA> hi.  anyone want to hassle me before i make dinner and then get back into the hacking-zone ?
[07:54] <SteveA> do i know you?
[07:54] <kiko> you know who I am bru
[07:54] <clahey> carlos, kiko: How do I submit a project?  Just register it under launchpad?
[07:55] <kiko> clahey, yes. it is likely what you want is products/+new
[08:01] <clahey> kiko: I'm asking one of my coworkers, Greg Opperman to take care of applying to that.  Thanks for all the information.
[08:02] <kiko> no problem, feel free to ask further.
[08:07] <kiko> DSP is evil incarnate
[08:36] <clahey> kiko: Oh my.  I just submitted to get pgl added to ISO 639.
[08:38] <kiko> pig latin? really now
[08:38] <clahey> kiko: I use it to test translation work and it would be helpful to me if it were an official language.
[09:09] <bradb> matsubara: Is pqm hung on your branch?
[09:09] <matsubara> bradb: I don't know I sent it a couple of hours ago and I'm not following its progress
[09:09] <matsubara> bradb: doesn't seem to be hung
[09:10] <bradb> A couple, i.e. six :)
[09:10] <matsubara> hehe but there was like 5 others ahead of me on the queue
[09:11] <bradb> ok, that would make more sense
[09:11] <kiko> bradb, no, but the branch above it hung at the end
[09:11] <bradb> ah
[09:11] <kiko> and it is likely that it will hang as well
[09:11] <kiko> and it is likely that the branch after it too
[09:11] <kiko> and then maybe it will stop hanging
[09:17] <bradb> kiko: I just saw your comment on bug 47544. i already submitted the fix to pqm.
[09:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47544 in malone "Malone reports that a package has no security contact...DUH!" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47544
[09:18] <bradb> it wasn't taken, so i took it
[09:18] <kiko> well done
[09:19] <bradb> interesting bzr message: bzr: WARNING: Conflict adding files to lib/canonical/rosetta.  Not deleting.
[09:20] <bradb> "I can't add files to this directory. Not deleting." wha?
[09:20] <kiko> the message is bad
[09:21] <bradb> I know what it really means, of course, but that was an interesting contradiction.
[09:21] <kiko> I think it means that the directory was removed but you still have some ignored files in it.
[09:21] <bradb> yeah
[09:29] <clahey> kiko: Cool.  I've uploaded our translations.  They're just waiting for an admin.  Very cool.
[09:31] <kiko> nice! carlos, jordi? can you take care of the upload?
[09:57] <kiko> carlos, do you know why we have this horrible iterable API on POTemplate?
[09:58] <kiko> carlos, I find it so completely absurdly incomprehensible
[10:06] <ddaa> elmo: Znarl: ping there's a nc in need of killing in pqm
[10:08] <ddaa> if the fix is right, it should be the last one
[10:09] <Znarl> ddaa : Done.
[10:11] <kiko> ddaa, hoping :)
[10:16] <ddaa> I'm sure other test suite will find creative ways of screwing up
[10:26] <carlos> kiko: hi, I'm back
[10:26] <carlos> kiko: are you talking about POTemplate and POTemplateSet ?
[10:27] <carlos> clahey: let me take a look...
[10:27] <kiko> POTemplate
[10:29] <carlos> POTemplate.__iter__ ?
[10:29] <kiko> yes
[10:29] <kiko> and __len__
[10:29] <kiko> and __getitem__
[10:30] <kiko> aka CRACK
[10:32] <ddaa> mmmmmh, crack
[10:32] <carlos> kiko: well...
[10:32] <SteveA> remember what leonard cohen said
[10:32] <SteveA> "give me crack and anal sex".  but remember that he also said:
[10:32] <carlos> I don't think those are perfect, but could you give me some extra information about your point?
[10:32] <SteveA> "there's a crack in everything.  that's how the light gets in"
[10:33] <ddaa> that's why banging your head against the walls helps you see the light?
[10:34] <kiko> carlos, use explicit method names. you should really only implement the iterable interface for stuff which is obviously iterable.
[10:34] <carlos> kiko: you iterate over all messages that a POTemplate has
[10:34] <kiko> carlos, that's just not a good enough reason. :)
[10:34] <carlos> kiko: why?
[10:35] <mpt_> Goooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[10:35] <carlos> kiko: you can iterate a list
[10:35] <kiko> carlos, because unless there is a strong reason to /implement/ the iterable API, you shouldn't do it.
[10:35] <carlos> and a POTemplate is a list of messages...
[10:35] <kiko> and in this case, there is no strong reason.
[10:35] <SteveA> mpt_: hallo
[10:35] <kiko> you could reimplement it using normal methods
[10:35] <kiko> and you'd survive with no harm done
[10:35] <SteveA> mpt_: can i borrow you for some menus love?
[10:36] <carlos> kiko: could you explain me why there is no strong reason, or better, give me an example of what do you think it's an strong reason?
[10:36] <carlos> kiko: same thing for all __getitem__, __len__, __iter__, etc...
[10:36] <carlos> you can always do it with normal methods
[10:37] <SteveA> the main reason i can think of is
[10:37] <SteveA> the contract for a single method is simpler
[10:37] <SteveA> than remembering the interrelationships between these
[10:38] <carlos> kiko: I'm not saying that you are wrong, I just want that you are able to give me a reason about why should I change it
[10:38] <malcc> I would argue that a POTemplate is not "is" a list of messages, it "has" a list of messages, in terms of the is-a vs. has-a OO debate
[10:39] <carlos> SteveA, kiko: Following that fact (I think I agree on that), why or when should we use the __iter__ or __getitem__ methods then?
[10:39] <kiko> carlos, the convenience of using len() and iterating over it is less than the inconvenience of finding out it doesn't behave like a real iterable -- i.e. no append, indexed updating, etc.
[10:40] <kiko> carlos, it communicates a weak truth
[10:40] <SteveA> kiko: an iterable doesn't necessarily have these things
[10:40] <SteveA> that's python
[10:40] <kiko> I know
[10:40] <carlos> malcc: the format is just a list of messages, nothing more, even the metadata is a message, but with our implementation is not completely true...
[10:40] <SteveA> that's why we have interfaces and protocols
[10:41] <SteveA> so, i don't buy the "weak truth" argument
[10:41] <SteveA> i do buy malc's "is-a vs has-a"
[10:41] <carlos> kiko: so you are complaining about missing methods that are implied if we use __getitem__ and __iter__, right?
[10:41] <kiko> the potemplate is not just a box of strings
[10:41] <kiko> it is a pretty complex creature
[10:41] <kiko> saying it's an iterable implies it is a box of something
[10:42] <kiko> that's my gut feeling over it.
[10:42] <SteveA> kiko: that's the is-a vs has-a argument
[10:42] <kiko> in part yes.
[10:43] <kiko> in part what I'm saying is that iterables are/should be simple, because they imply they are simple containers, with fairly simple semantics. well, for some definition of fairly. :)
[10:43] <SteveA> the "missing methods" thing we can do *if* you write an interface for a "standard launchpad collection"
[10:43] <SteveA> and we start using that
[10:43] <kiko> I am not suggesting adding append() to POTemplate!
[10:43] <SteveA> i'll note that in my opinion, the Container protocol in Zope 3 causes more harm than good
[10:43] <SteveA> so, care needs to be taken in standardizing interfaces to collections
[10:45] <SteveA> i buy an argument of simplifying the API for potemplates etc.
[10:45] <carlos> kiko: anyway, switch to explicit methods should be easy, as you can see, those special methods call other explicit methods already (or most of them do it)
[10:45] <kiko> carlos, yeah, it should.
[10:45] <SteveA> i do not buy that iterables should be simple or that something being iterable implies it is a simple container with simple semantics
[10:45] <kiko> it's not a priority, just something I found very confusing when reading the code.
[10:46] <SteveA> although i'm willing to be convinced sometime
[10:46] <kiko> SteveA, I maintain that complex iterables are asking for trouble, in my heart.
[10:46] <carlos> what I'm not completely sure now is when should I use those special methods
[10:46] <kiko> carlos, rule of them, never unless the class /is/ a simple container.
[10:47] <carlos> because from what you told me, most of the time if you can use __iter__ is more or less when you have a list
[10:47] <carlos> or a set
[10:47] <kiko> right
[10:47] <SteveA> ain't true
[10:47] <carlos> in those cases, why don't just use a list or a set directly?
[10:47] <SteveA> there are lots of iterators in python that aren't lists or sets
[10:47] <SteveA> that's the point of having a separate iteration protocol in python
[10:47] <kiko> wait
[10:47] <SteveA> so that you can use things in for-loops directly
[10:48] <kiko> I'm not against returning iterators
[10:48] <kiko> or using generators
[10:48] <carlos> SteveA, kiko: would TranslationImportQueue be a valid candidate for __iter__ ?
[10:48] <kiko> but I am against a complex class implementing __iter__
[10:48] <kiko> because the syntactic sugar isn't worth the confusion
[10:48] <kiko> IMO no
[10:49] <carlos> kiko: but that IS a list of elements
[10:49] <carlos> is a queue
[10:49] <carlos> and its only content is a set of elements
[10:49] <kiko> so it /has/ a set of elements
[10:49] <carlos> it fits the 'is-a' description that malcc was talking about
[10:50] <carlos> I'm really confused
[10:50] <SteveA> i think it is reasonable to __iter__ a queue
[10:50] <kiko> it also contains a truckload and a half of code and attributes that are not directly tied to its function as a queue.
[10:50] <kiko> it's not a simple queue
[10:50] <SteveA> a queue is a basic data type and so passes *everyone's* tests so far
[10:50] <kiko> not a knuth-style queue
[10:50] <malcc> Yes, but its function as a queue is clearly its main one, hence its name
[10:50] <malcc> I would be happy with a queue being iterable, unless there were issues in the ORM which made that painful
[10:51] <kiko> not really
[10:51] <kiko> the ORM is permissive!
[10:51] <SteveA> kiko: this is going to require a specification if you want to make this launchpad policy
[10:51] <kiko> anyway, I actually have a review to finish
[10:51] <SteveA> and i'll want the code review team to have input on it
[10:51] <kiko> I don't want to make it anything like that!
[10:51] <carlos> kiko: it has no attributes at all
[10:51] <carlos> kiko: only methods to operate its elements
[10:51] <SteveA> i think it make be worth doing, if you find such code confusing
[10:51] <kiko> carlos, errr, right I'm looking at TIQE :)
[10:52] <carlos> kiko: ;-)
[10:52] <kiko> SteveA, I started on this because I'm looking for len()s in our codebase that are triggering trouble, and len(self.potemplate) caught my eye
[10:52] <kiko> but now I SWEAR I will go back to reviewing
[10:52] <kiko> DND
[10:52] <malcc> kiko: You don't want to go looking for trouble. You might find it :)
[10:52] <carlos> kiko: I would be happy removing len(self.potemplate)
[10:53] <carlos> I already removed len(self.pofile)
[10:53] <kiko> malcc, yeah, jesus, SteveA and you are supposed to be in bed at this point
[10:53] <carlos> because it was completely useless
[10:53] <kiko> it was a completely harmless rant!
[10:53] <SteveA> wem
[10:53] <SteveA> i'm sure malc is cute
[10:53] <SteveA> but i'm not takeing him to bed
[10:54] <carlos> ;-)
[10:54] <SteveA> although jesus i'll make an exception for
[10:54] <SteveA> and i don't know this "yeah" character
[10:54] <kiko> fofl
[10:56] <carlos> clahey: hi, around?
[10:56] <clahey> carlos: Yep.
[10:56] <clahey> Hi.
[10:57] <carlos> clahey: could you tell me the translation domain you are using for your application?
[10:57] <carlos> the one that gettext uses to find the translations
[10:57] <clahey> One sec.
[10:58] <clahey> democracyplayer
[10:58] <clahey> Should I rename messages.pot
[10:58] <clahey> ?
[10:58] <carlos> no, don't worry
[11:00] <ddaa> it's probably to help mellowing down after the crack...
[11:02] <carlos> clahey: ok, the .pot file is now imported and the .po files will be imported in 10 minutes
[11:02] <carlos> clahey: https://launchpad.net/products/democracy/trunk/+pots/democracyplayer/
[11:03] <clahey> How would a user go about translating to a new language?
[11:04] <kiko> clahey, the list displayed is the user's default languages
[11:04] <kiko> so I see English, French, Georgian, Italian, Polish and pt_BR
[11:04] <carlos> clahey: they will get the option from their browser preferences/ languages spoken in their country or based on their preferences from https://launchpad.net/rosetta/prefs/
[11:05] <clahey> Ah, that's why it lists the 4 languages we have translated already and Russian for me.
[11:06] <carlos> clahey: right
[11:06] <kiko> clahey, just because I'm your friend I've just added 10 pt_BR strings :)
[11:07] <clahey> :)
[11:08] <clahey> Excellent.  :)
[11:08] <kiko> 109 strings is so easy
[11:09] <carlos> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileWKtqId.html
[11:09] <clahey> Yeah, there'll be more.
[11:09] <carlos> kiko: If you are not able to answer that question yourself... you wrote bad code or you don't remember the reason you wrote it that way ;-)
[11:10] <kiko> carlos, I don't even remember my birthday
[11:10] <carlos> kiko: :-P
[11:10] <carlos> kiko: if you don't have a batch object
[11:10] <carlos> you cannot return any link
[11:10] <carlos> so you return the empty string
[11:11] <carlos> that means that you use current url
[11:11] <carlos> so if you are at http://foo.bar.com/something
[11:11] <carlos> the link will be the same page
[11:11] <carlos> I think it makes sense and thus, I'm doing exactly the same thing the parent class is doing ;-)
[11:12] <carlos> kiko: anyway, I will answer that email and that concrete question tomorrow ;-)
[11:13] <carlos> kiko: thanks for the review
[11:13] <kiko> sure no problem at all
[11:14] <carlos> clahey: all files are imported now
[11:15] <carlos> clahey: and you are getting en_GB translations already...
[11:15] <clahey> carlos: I saw that.  Crazy cool.
[11:16] <carlos> good night!!
[12:00] <clahey> Do you guys run pofilter at all?


[02:09] <verbose_> how safe is it to use ntfsresize on a ntfs partition that has somewhat important data on it
[12:34] <thefish> any ldap bods here? I need to search by username, and return the names of the groups they are a member of... any ideas?
[12:36] <thefish> ldapsearch -x '(&(objectClass=groupOfNames)(cn=*)(member=cn=joeuser,dc=foobar,dc=com))' seems to work
[05:42] <fryfrog> so, i've just started poking around in ubuntu-server and i had some questions that google didn't turn up answers to
[05:42] <fryfrog> or i was not searching well :)
[05:42] <fryfrog> I am looking into building a vmware appliance lamp for gallery2, and i was looking for ways of slimming down the size as much as possible
[05:49] <lionelp> hi fryfrog
[05:49] <lionelp> the basic server installation is quite minimal
[05:49] <fryfrog> 400-500mb :(
[05:50] <lionelp> hum... I would have said less (about 300Mb)
[05:50] <fryfrog> maybe 400mb once i clear the apt cache
[05:50] <lionelp> fryfrog: you are talking about the LAMP server installation or the server installation ?
[05:50] <fryfrog> ah, sorry LAMP
[05:50] <lionelp> np :)
[05:51] <lionelp> I think on LAMP installation, you have thinks you does not necessary need in your case
[05:51] <lionelp> But it is not so enormous a 400Mb file to download nowaday
[05:51] <fryfrog> no, not terrible
[05:52] <fryfrog> every little bit helps though
[05:52] <fryfrog> i need to figure out apt :)
[05:52] <fryfrog> my big annoyance is that imagemagick pulls in X :(
[05:52] <lionelp> yes, right...
[05:54] <lionelp> does gallery2 (i do not know it very well) needs imagemagick ?
[05:54] <fryfrog> well, sort of
[05:55] <fryfrog> it can use imagemagick, gd and netpbm
[05:55] <fryfrog> dcraw and ffmpeg as well
[05:55] <fryfrog> it would be *nice* to include support for all of them, since its likely the vmware image will be used to test features and maybe do dev work


 ERROR Closing Link: <IP_ADDRESS> (Banned)
[06:57] <mneptok> 00:55 -!- Irssi: Connection lost to brown.freenode.net
[06:57] <Amaranth> nalioth: Fujitsu...
[06:57] <nalioth> mneptok: we know what happens when one is klined, now that you know, please refrain
[06:57] <Amaranth> nalioth: it was lamalex or ShangWu_,
[06:57] <Hobbsee> mneptok: the autokline script is enabled.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: or thesheep
[06:57] <mneptok> it wasn't ShangWu_
[06:57] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: no way
[06:58] <Fujitsu> Hm, why did I vanish from here a while ago?
[06:58] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: whoever it is was in this channel
[06:58] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: because we just did a mass remove
[06:58] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[06:58] <Amaranth> lamalex is the only possibility then
[06:58] <Fujitsu> I just noticed all my numbers had shifted.
[06:58] <nalioth> Fujitsu: idling in here is a privilege  :D
[07:02] <Hobbsee> if it really was lamalex, then he has to be pretty stupid...
[07:02] <Fujitsu> What happened?
[07:02] <Amaranth> if ShangWu_ wasn't it lamalex is the only possibility
[07:02] <Amaranth> because i can't see TheSheep doing it
[07:03] <mneptok> Amaranth: look at Shang's IP and my /join ;)
[07:05] <Hobbsee> mneptok: why are you using two nicks, then?
[07:05] <Hobbsee> drat.  the upgrade is failing, as i'm out of space.
[07:05] <mneptok> hm huh?
[07:05] <mneptok> this is the only nick i use.
[07:06] <Hobbsee> oh, is that the link into the office?
[07:06] <mneptok> Shang Wu sits at the front of the room in Montreal, Fab and i are at the back :)
[07:07] <mneptok> so if it *is* him, he's risking his job. and he's not that a). dumb - b). disillusioned
[07:07] <atoponce> nalioth: ?
[07:07] <nalioth> atoponce: i cleared the channel
[07:07] <atoponce> ahh
[07:07] <mneptok> atoponce: long story. not personal. wb.
[07:07] <atoponce> thx
[07:07] <atoponce> np
[07:08] <atoponce> now i'm curious
[07:08] <mneptok> we don't like you.
[07:08] <Hobbsee> atoponce: bot attack, bot owner was in this channel
[07:08] <mneptok> there, i said it.
[07:08] <Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
[07:09] <mneptok> get in line.
[07:25] <elkbuntu> i have dibbs on second turn. i believe his gf comes first :
[07:27] <mneptok> hehehe :)
[07:27] <mneptok> brb
[02:55] <beuno> any reason for this: --- You have left channel #ubuntu-ops (requested by nalioth)
[02:55] <beuno> :/
[02:55] <Hobbsee> beuno: yes, we removed people
[02:56] <Hobbsee> because this is not a lurking ground
[02:56] <beuno> ah, right, maybe easier to just say so, and I can also remove it from auto-join  :D
[02:57] <Hobbsee> beuno: we had a bot owner in this channel, so removed a whole bunch of people
[02:59] <beuno> Hobbsee: I don't see why that's a problem, but It's really not  a problem to leave, thanks
[06:09] <matt____> ok, anyone currently reading anything here?
[06:10] <matt____> tritium: I got banned from #Ubuntu, but I didn't do anything, can you unban me somehow? If not, what do I do from here?
[08:10] <matt____> anyone help me, I was banned from #ubuntu this morning, then later unbanned, and now banned again. I've not been doing anthing, only I helped a few people earlier. Can you unban me? If not, where from here? fdoving ubuntulog  Shang  stdin  stylus  Myrtti ??
[08:11] <ompaul> h
[08:11] <ompaul> ehhh
[08:11] <ompaul> matt____, let me look
[08:11] <matt____> ompaul: well...i just tried again, i could join. I don't know why... any ideas?
[08:11] <matt____> I'm using irssi
[08:12] <ompaul> are you using tor or some such?
[08:12] <matt____> ompaul: come to think of it, i installed it earlier today, but then uninstalled it, i could connect again. but it isn't installed right now, perhaps restarting x server would help? I can't right now, but I'll be able to in about 2 hours..
[08:13] <ompaul> if you use tor channels will ban you
[08:13] <ompaul> too much abuse from tor users
[08:14] <matt____> ompaul: ahhh, gotcha. thanks ompaul
[08:15] <ompaul> right so good luck
[08:22] <matt____> ompaul: i figured it out, i can only connect to #ubuntu after i've connected to #ubuntu-ops, in irssi i have to have 0ps open in a seperate tab. it'll probably work after i restart something, but i figured i'd let you know there is a loophole in the blocking method
[08:23] <gnomefreak> matt____: i dont see how -ops is gonna affect you connecting to #ubuntu at all
[08:23] <gnomefreak> nothing in common
[08:25] <matt____> gnomefreak: well, it is the only way i can, or else #ubuntu tells me i am blocked
[08:25] <matt____> gnomefreak: it may just have something to do with my system, i had tor and privoxy installed earlier, and then i uninstalled them.
[08:26] <gnomefreak> matt____: that could do it come to think of it since tor isnt banned here
[08:26] <gnomefreak> but that is odd
[08:27] <matt____> gnomefreak: i know, because if i'm connected to this, i can then connect to #ubuntu, it works, because i tried every possible combination...
[08:27] <Pumpernickel> Being banned, or not, is handled server-side, though.  It sounds more like a really weird client configuration.
[08:28] <matt____> Pumpernickel: irssi
[08:28] <matt____> all defaults
[08:28] <gnomefreak> Pumpernickel: he could still have tor config in the config
[08:28] <mc44> don't tor people get a tor hostmask automatically?
[08:29] <Pumpernickel> Yeah.
[08:29] <Pumpernickel> He'd be connected via tor, or not, but not some halfway in between thing that depends on which order he joins channels.
[08:29] <mc44> he is using a different nick in #ubuntu
[08:29] <Pumpernickel> ...sigh...
[08:29] <gnomefreak> that could do it too
[08:30] <Pumpernickel> That would be it.
[08:30] <matt____> um, im using the same, i think......
[08:30] <matt____> i'm not sure.
[08:30] <mc44> no you aren't
[08:30] <matt____> you're saying when i join ops, then that forces ubuntu when i log in, to use another _
[08:30] <matt____> right right, i get it now
[08:30] <gnomefreak> matt____: you have an extra space in #ubuntu
[08:31] <gnomefreak> extra _
[08:31] <gnomefreak> you have 4 here and 5 in #ubuntu
[08:31] <mc44> and you are banned as matt____
[08:31] <mc44> er, with 4 _
[08:31] <matt____> Pumpernickel: so if i edit the irssi config, and get a custom name, like i've been planning on (did it before, but fresh install) it will work?
[08:31] <matt____> Pumpernickel: mc44 i'll try that, be back in a few to tell you
[08:31] <mc44> no, you are banned in #ubuntu on your name
[08:31] <mc44> *sigh*
[08:32] <gnomefreak> either way ompaul removed the ban on his non tor hostmask
[08:32] <gnomefreak> atleast from what i saw in bt
[08:32] <mc44> right, but the ban on matt_____ is still there
[08:32] <gnomefreak> oh i didnt see that one
[08:33] <BlackAnt1rax> ok, (former matt) it works...
[08:33] <BlackAnt1rax> Pumpernickel: mc44
[08:34] <BlackAnt1rax> so why was i banned using matt___?
[08:34] <mc44> for spamming digg links
[08:35] <BlackAnt1rax> mc44: oh yes, i did that a long time ago, (a few months) can you somehow forgive that?
[08:35] <BlackAnt1rax> never again :)
[08:39] <BlackAnt1rax> mc44: ???
[08:42] <BlackAnt1rax> gnomefreak: why is that? to see if i am unbanned?
[08:43] <gnomefreak> BlackAnt1rax: yes
[08:43] <BlackAnt1rax> gnomefreak: well, i was just concerned because i thought mc44  may try to block my ip or something..i don't care to use this name, will that be ok?
[08:43] <ompaul> I did not do taht
[08:44] <gnomefreak> BlackAnt1rax: please try so we can get this figured out
[08:44] <BlackAnt1rax> gnomefreak: ok, i will, how many _ is that? 4?
[08:44] <gnomefreak> yes
[08:45] <gnomefreak> no make that 5
[08:45] <BlackAnt1rax> gnomefreak: ok, so you want me to JUST TRY LOGGING INTO #ubuntu, no ops?
[08:45] <gnomefreak> BlackAnt1rax: 4
[08:45] <gnomefreak> yes
[08:45] <gnomefreak> with 4 _
[08:45] <BlackAnt1rax> ok
[08:46] <gnomefreak> there are ~400 bans in #ubuntu my eyes hurt looking for his
[08:46] <mc44> hehe
[08:46] <mc44> blame ompaul
[08:46] <mc44> :P
[08:46] <gnomefreak> :)
[08:49] <nalioth> blame it on tonyyarusso
[08:49] <mc44> just get nalioth to remove the 400 bans then it will be pretty and shiny :)
[08:52] <tomaw> Don't you guys have a ban tracking bot?
[08:53] <gnomefreak> tomaw: yes
[09:22] <Tm_T> vois kohta pivitt Bugsyyn
[09:22] <Tm_T> eiku Gutsyyn
[09:22] <Tm_T> Bugsy Bugger!
[09:27] <gnomefreak> anyone good with envy in here?
[09:28] <Tm_T> who's envy who?
[09:31] <gnomefreak> envy == gui driver install script i think i found the coder
[09:31] <Tm_T> oki
[09:31] <mc44> try not to hit him. hard.
[12:17] <poningru> someone wanna take care of that guy in #ubuntu?