[06:58] <sakhi> morning
[07:01] <superfly> heya sakhi
[07:54] <sakhi> superfly: how is it going?
[07:54] <sakhi> Maaz: forecast Cape Town
[07:54] <Maaz> sakhi: Sunday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 16° C., Sunday Night: Chance of a Thunderstorm. Low: 9° C., Monday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 14° C., Monday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 10° C., Tuesday: Partly Cloudy. High: 17° C., Tuesday Night: Mostly Cloudy. Low: 15° C., Wednesday: Partly Cloudy. High: 17° C., Wednesday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 11° C., Thursday: Partly Cloudy. High: 18° C., Thursday Night: Partly Cloudy. Lo
[07:57] <kbmonkey> morning ubuntu-za
[07:57] <superfly> hey sakhi, cold, but OK
[07:58] <kbmonkey> we need a geeky joke to start this week
[08:01] <kbmonkey> "File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)" :D
[08:29] <Owkkuri> The great thing about TCP jokes is that you always get them.
[08:30] <cocooncrash> the punchline sometimes arrives first. The problem with UDP jokes is that
[08:31]  * kbmonkey keels over!
[08:31] <Kilos> morning superfly and friends of ubuntu
[08:31] <Kilos> lo kbmonkey
[08:31] <Kilos> wassup
[08:34] <kbmonkey> awe wow those are so funny!
[08:35]  * kbmonkey wi-fives Owkkuri and cocooncrash
[08:35] <Owkkuri> P
[08:36] <cocooncrash> Maaz: http://twitter.com/#!/mgorven/status/77382856397168641
[08:36] <Maaz> cocooncrash: afernandez: "FTP Joke Incoming - Please see my other Twitter account for the Actual Joke #protolol"
[08:56] <kbmonkey> +1 for #protolol hashtag
[09:36] <Squirm> hello
[09:37] <Squirm> anyone here know about samba and it's file permissions
[09:47] <kbmonkey> hi squirm
[09:48] <kbmonkey> what about the permissions?
[09:55] <kbmonkey> the samba docs and tuts are huge I only touched on some of them
[10:02] <queery> maaz, coffee on
[10:02]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[10:06] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for queery!
[10:07] <Squirm> kbmonkey: well, I want an excel file to have read/write permissions for all users. But as soon as a user edits the file, it changes the file permissions
[10:08] <queery> maaz, ty
[10:08] <Maaz> Enjoy queery
[10:09] <kbmonkey> hello queery
[10:09] <queery> hi kbmonkey
[10:10] <kbmonkey> excel, squirm? well excel locks the files you open so only one preson can edit it at a time.
[10:10] <kbmonkey> that's not a samba issue, that is Excel being neurotic
[10:10] <Squirm> no, no
[10:10] <Squirm> look
[10:11] <Squirm> -rwxrwxrwx 1 shan     users  41472 Jun  1 10:23 Grade 1 - Shan.xls
[10:11] <Squirm> thats what it should like
[10:11] <Squirm> but
[10:11] <Squirm> -rwxr--r-- 1 joanine  users  53760 Jun  6 10:20 Grade 3 - Kirsten.xls
[10:11] <Squirm> thats what it looks like after joanine edits it
[10:11] <kbmonkey> ah
[10:12] <kbmonkey> okay I see
[10:12] <superfly> Squirm: check the umask of files in the config, I think you can set it there somewhere
[10:12] <Squirm> and in smb.conf, I have these
[10:12] <Squirm> 	create mask = ugo=rwx
[10:12] <Squirm> 	directory mask = ugo=rwx
[10:12] <Squirm> 	force group = users
[10:12] <Squirm>         force directory mode = ugo=rwx
[10:12] <Squirm>         force create mode = ugo=rwx
[10:12]  * superfly hasn't used samba in years
[10:13] <Squirm> and it used to be 7777
[10:13] <kbmonkey> yes you need to set the default permission
[10:13] <superfly> Squirm: isn't there a write mask as well?
[10:13] <kbmonkey> usually files keep their permissions. I bet excel is recreating the file which recreates the default ro permission
[10:14] <Squirm> thats why I put create mode
[10:14] <Squirm> and create mask
[10:14] <kbmonkey> try write mask as superfly said
[10:19] <kbmonkey> long shot but try use the 'mask = 0777' format instead of ugo=rwx
[10:21] <Squirm> ok
[10:21] <Squirm> lets see
[10:26] <Squirm> ok
[10:26] <Squirm> new problem
[10:27] <Squirm> the user can't write to the file, if they don't have ownership
[10:27] <Squirm> yet the rw permissions are 0777
[10:27] <Squirm> yet the user Joanine can
[10:27] <Squirm> bleh
[10:27] <kbmonkey> I had the same problem on my HTPC where copying files over the network changed ownership :/
[10:28] <Squirm> it changes ownership, but all users are on users
[10:28] <Squirm> in users*
[10:28] <kbmonkey> I think samba has it's own user (default nobody)
[10:29] <Squirm> I made it force group users
[10:29] <Squirm> as well
[10:29] <kbmonkey> if you restart the smbd service make sure the clients (your pc's) remount the share too
[10:29] <superfly> Squirm: if you force user, doesn't that negate the user themselves?
[10:29] <kbmonkey> to reload the permissions
[10:31] <kbmonkey> so did create mask = 0777 let it write the file at least?
[10:32] <Squirm> no
[10:32] <Squirm> it won't let me write to the file, when the owner is joanine
[10:32] <Squirm> yet the permission are 0777
[10:33] <Squirm> excel just throws, "Access Denied. Contact Administrator"
[10:33] <Squirm> so I chown trish:users
[10:33] <Squirm> aand it works
[10:34] <kbmonkey> is one person editing over the network and another on the pc itself?
[10:34] <superfly> kbmonkey: they can't, they're both Windows users ;-)
[10:35] <kbmonkey> Im not a samba fundi myself ;)
[10:36] <Squirm> its stored on a debian server
[10:36] <kbmonkey> it sounds like each user uses a different samba account
[10:36] <Squirm> im logged into the server via ssh
[10:36] <Squirm> and each user has a samba account
[10:37] <Squirm> I'm at a school, all the teachers have a username and password to map the network drive, where they have to edit these files
[10:38] <kbmonkey> have a look here squirm http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/how-do-i-set-permissions-to-samba-shares.html
[10:38] <kbmonkey> also shows there adding valid users to a share, that may help
[10:39] <Squirm> I'm sure I set samba to use linux directory permissions
[10:39] <kbmonkey> linux permissions take precedence over samba permissions, that seems to be conflicting
[10:45] <Squirm> I'm really confused
[10:56] <kbmonkey> samba does that to me too squirm :/
[10:57] <kbmonkey> we need samba experts, have you tried their forums and mailing list?
[11:05] <Squirm> but why does it not work, yet all the users are in the group users
[11:05] <Squirm> and the file permission is 0777
[11:05] <Squirm> DIE
[11:12] <kbmonkey> sorry Squirm wish I knew the answer for you!
[11:12] <kbmonkey> googling gives many answers but all variations of the problem and the rest say what you have tried
[11:16] <Squirm> kbmonkey: I think I sorted it out
[11:17] <Squirm> they were in the directory attendance, which ended in the t dir permission. so maybe they could only edit it because they had ownership
[11:17] <Squirm> otherwise because only joanine could change the permissions, it wouldnt work
[11:19] <kbmonkey> :)
[11:20] <Squirm> so I think
[11:20] <Squirm> its done
[11:20]  * Squirm edits the file with joanine
[11:24] <kbmonkey> Im too clear on what you mean by 'directory attendance'?
[13:08] <Squirm2> kbmonkey: the directory, 'attendance'
[13:08] <Squirm2> but it seems the problem has now been sorted
[13:17] <kbmonkey> oh that's good Squirm!
[16:59] <Kilos> Paddy's in jail.  The Guard looks in his cell and see's him hanging by his feet.
[16:59] <Kilos> "What are you doing?" he asks.
[16:59] <Kilos> "Hanging myself," Paddy replies.
[16:59] <Kilos> "It should be round your neck," says the guard.
[16:59] <Kilos> "I tried that," says Paddy, "but I couldn't breathe."
[17:00] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[17:00]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[17:04] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[17:04] <Kilos> Maaz, gracias amigo
[17:04] <Maaz> ¡de nada compadre
[17:38] <Kilos> any grub experts around?
[17:38] <Kilos> http://slexy.org/view/s20AOgDE7J
[17:42] <Kilos> i explained my prob and what i have done at the pastebin
[17:49] <superfly> tumbleweed: ping
[17:49] <superfly> Kilos: you only need 1 swap partition between multiple installations
[17:50] <superfly> why do you have 4?
[17:50] <Kilos> superfly, the installations made them on their own
[17:50] <Kilos> i didnt make my own partitions
[17:51] <Kilos> also now there is about 50g of the drive split into the extra installations
[17:52] <Kilos> also i bangerig to delete the swaps and make one just yet
[17:52] <Kilos> if i can remove the last 2 mavericks alongside then i will worry about swap
[17:57] <Kilos> and also is it safe to make the new swap with gparted
[18:01] <Kilos> hehe gparted shows what a mess the drive is in even though its working lekker
[18:01] <Kilos> dunno where to send a screenshot
[18:24] <queery> looking for a job in sciences and stumbled on to this: http://www.pnet.co.za/index.php?s=advert_view&g=3002&x=2187336&i=7007&pop=1
[19:58] <kbmonkey_> I really want a tux logo on my netbook win key
[21:50] <Kilos> night all sleep tight and warm


[16:49] <PaulW2U_> Just found this - http://youtu.be/88Lfsk0hWaQ - on YouTube. Who is he?
[16:50] <PaulW2U_> Seems he's making a news broadcast with content taken from UWN issue #324.
[19:07] <pleia2> huh, I knew about the oddly named youtube account, but not that they were actually using content from the newsletter (which is fine as long as he gives attribution and licenses his videos the same way, I didn't check)
[19:07] <pleia2> getting newsletter off to summary writers now, was doing v-day dinner last night
[19:11]  * pleia2 makes phone section
[19:12] <pleia2> so I see the phone section to be our community news about phone, much like cloud - so sources should tend to be Planet (our community members) and Canonical (insights/press releases)
[19:27] <pleia2> alright, sent off
[19:27] <pleia2> I'm actually around this Saturday for a chance (prepping for a trip)
[19:29] <pleia2> PaulW2U_: re: kubuntu masterpiece, maybe link direct youtube link in the audio&video section? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fc9lIruikE
[19:34] <PaulW2U_> pleia2: done
[19:36] <pleia2> \o/
[20:47] <imnichol> Style question: if I start of with "Joey Sneddon writes", how do I refer to him throughout the rest of the summary?
[20:47] <imnichol> (i.e. "Sneddon", "Joey", or "Joey Sneddon"?
[20:52] <PaulW2U_> We've always called him Joey-Elijah Sneddon first. After that I always use "he" or "Joey". Others call him "Sneddon" but i don't like that.
[20:54] <PaulW2U_> I see you summary now. Don't forget to add "of OMG! Ubuntu!" :)
[20:58] <imnichol> PaulW2U_, thanks will do.  do you think you could write a better summary of the launchpad git news item?
[20:58] <imnichol> Not a lot to go on...
[20:59]  * PaulW2U_ looking
[21:01] <PaulW2U_> I'd be tempted to just re-quote the whole article. The trouble is there is more info in the tile :(
[21:02] <imnichol> hahah yeah


[02:31] <em_> hi, I've been testing Beta 2 64bit and find that UEFI is totally broken.  is this a known issue?
[02:36] <holstein> !uefi
[02:36] <holstein> em_: you mean, you cant install it?
[02:43] <holstein> em_: whats the issue with uefi? is this a QA test case?
[03:40] <OvenWerks> holstein: FYI uefi secure boot only works with the generic kernel for now.
[03:41] <OvenWerks> I think it should work without secure boot turned on though
[04:10] <em_> nope, not using secure boot...  see for yourself, it only takes about 5 minutes to set this up in virtualbox.   I was trying to convince a windows 8 victim to switch to ubustudio but could not get it to run.
[04:12] <em_> yes, I have read the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI  docs, plus others, I get nowhere.
[04:56] <holstein> em_: i dont understand what you mean by "windows 8 victim" or "couldnt get it to run".. or whate "it" is
[04:56] <holstein> em_: i would install ubuntu.. not ubuntustudio.. and install/use a non-testing version..
[04:56] <holstein> !uefi
[04:57] <holstein> ^^ that documentation should work fine with the main ubuntu version.. then, you can add what you want from the studio pacagkes
[04:57] <holstein> packages*
[04:59] <holstein> em_: i would disable the secureboot on the machine
[05:14] <em_> we are going round in circles...  :-(   SECUREBOOT is NOT enabled...   anyone stuck with windows 8 esp when they didn't want it is a victim of the m$ monopoly.  booting the Beta 2 on a UEFI does eventually find it's way to the grub prompt.  selecting Run Without Installing ends with a blank/black screen that never goes away.  selecting test/verify cd... actually works.  selecting either Install or OEM Install does... after about 4 minutes
[05:14] <em_>  pause with a blank/black screen does finally bring up the installer.  so far I have managed to do one install, oten it hangs instead of installing, but the install that did complete was not bootable, it was only giving me a black/blank screen with no visible activity.  however on that particular install I did try enabling encryption which was probably a bad idea.  have now made several attempts to do the install without encryption and ha
[05:14] <em_> ve yet to succeed.  the install that did complete did partiton the disk and put files on it, but agin, not bootable.  I cant make it any more clear than this.  highly suggest you try it yourself it only takes 5 minutes to set up a virtualbox test.
[05:15] <holstein> em_: stuck? if you purchase a machine with an operating system on it, thats a choice.. not something one is "stuck" with
[05:16] <holstein> em_: get a stable version of an OS that supports the hardware.. ubuntu, main ubuntu should support your hardware fine
[05:16] <wilee-nilee> if it is wiped it needs a msdos partition table probably
[05:16] <holstein> em_: dont use the development release if you are having issues, for there is no official support for it
[05:16] <wilee-nilee> and the mbr area cleaned gpt remnants will cause problems
[05:17] <holstein> one thing i would do in that scenario is to test the hard disk for errors.. any virtualbox tests i do pass
[05:17] <holstein> but, i dont have that particular hardware...
[05:18] <em_> virtualbox is a blank never formatted disk.  windows 8 has a bootable os, was trying to run live cd, so mbr not an issue
[05:18] <em_> virtualbox is not a hardware, you are apparently a troll or very troll like...  bye
[05:23] <holstein> for the record, i meant, i dont have the *actual* hardware in particular that is failing for em_.. i only have virtualbox, which i understand is not hardware.. and it works on the iso's i test, but i dont know or have that particular iso to test with
[13:21] <kale_> Hi, realtive noob here. I'm trying to get my usb guitar interface to run through jack and back out of the computer. I got it setup and working yesterday, albeit with high latency. I started to tweak settings for latency, and the usb connection stopped working (hydrogen still output, though). Returning settings to default didn't help. Any ideas?
[16:50] <MaynardWaters> holstein: sounded like em_ wasnt in a generally good mood anyways, not much you can do to help someone like that
[16:50] <holstein> MaynardWaters: i probably should have been more clear though, since maybe we had a language barrier as well
[22:50] <kale_> Hi, I'm having an odd problem getting my usb interface to work with jack. It worked until I starting messing with latency settings, then it stopped working. Return to qjackctl defaults didn't help, nor did a reinstall of jackd.
[22:52] <holstein> kale_: sometimes, i try with the live CD, just to make sure its still functioning.. do you have any error messages in the jack window?
[22:55] <kale_> no errors. I'm very new to jack; looking for errors made me notice it mentions device hw:0 (onboard stuff) but has no mention of hw:1 (usb) in the startup messages
[22:56] <kale_> it does say acquired audio card Audio0.
[22:57] <holstein> one thing i suggest, if you can, disable the onboard audio, then, you'll know that JACK is seeing the USB
[22:57] <holstein> otherwise, its probably a matter of selecting the device
[22:57] <holstein> there are 2 drop down menus..
[22:58] <kale_> "hw:1 usb audio codec" is selected as "Input Device". is this what you're talking about?
[23:00] <holstein> kale_: i, nor you, will ever really konw, likely
[23:00] <holstein> what do i do? i try and reduce the amount of cards.. .thus having only the one device
[23:00] <holstein> then, when i see a device, i know its it
[23:00] <holstein> otherwise, i literally select *every* one and test
[23:00] <holstein> not trusting labels
[23:01] <kale_> ok, I'll give that a go. Gotta go teach a guitar lesson. Thanks.
[23:01] <holstein> kale_: good luck


 They just won't quit
[01:28] <pragmaticenigma> asked in -ops... no response
[01:28] <pragmaticenigma> one down...
[01:28] <pragmaticenigma> *maybe*
[01:28] <leftyfb> shocker
[01:30] <pragmaticenigma> I would note that some packages do create users... mythbuntu I know does... but odd one would create a "test" user
[01:31] <leftyfb> then that would show up in a log :)
[01:33] <oerheks> let me guess, the hacker is sitting next to him.
[01:33] <pragmaticenigma> guessing his password was weak and opened port 22 to the open web
[01:45] <leftyfb> he's got both of those open
[01:46] <pragmaticenigma> oh?
[01:46] <pragmaticenigma> lovely
[02:08] <lordcirth_> I have 3 3TB HDDs in ZFS raidz for my NAS. 2 of the original drives have failed and been replaced, and the third is getting errors. I am also out of space. Unfortunately the box has neither any free SATA ports or SATA power connectors. My tentative plan is to buy 3 ~8TB HDDs and swap them in one at a time. I might use a USB adapter so I can migrate without actually removing one. Any recommendations?
[02:11] <pragmaticenigma> okay... I'm done with support for tonight... the trolls just keep rolling in
[02:12] <leftyfb> it's insane tonight
[02:14] <pragmaticenigma> imachine is a level 8 problem
[02:24] <oerheks> disable cache and swap to speed up a browser
[02:25] <pragmaticenigma> disable swap on an underpowered machine... they've only got 4GB of memory
[02:25] <pragmaticenigma> dumb
[02:27] <oerheks> dare not to ask; wifi  802.11a 11 mbit?
[02:32] <daftykins> i was confused by this the other day too when TJ was talking about buying 'a' cards, i was thinking he was mad buying old crap
[02:32] <leftyfb> LMFAO!!!!!!!
[02:32] <leftyfb> I JUST got through testing and figuring out the answer to drecondius's enlightenment issue.
[02:32] <leftyfb> I was about to post the answer to them and they signed off
[02:33] <daftykins> my guess was that 'a' refers to 5GHz usage and maybe 'ac' means subset c of 'a' band
[02:33] <pragmaticenigma> post it here? maybe one of us will catch them later?
[02:33] <leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: I installed Ubuntu 18.04 live server, then install e17 and gdm3 (NOT lightdm). Then when you login you pick enlightenment as the DE
[02:34] <pragmaticenigma> that looks like the same instructions I found online
[02:34] <leftyfb> they said they tried gdm3, but I doubt it. Or if they did, it was with a mess of an environment they had created
[02:35] <leftyfb> either way, I had zero problem with "xserver"
[02:37] <pragmaticenigma> can that be done with out installing ubuntu-desktop package?
[02:39] <leftyfb> without
[02:39] <leftyfb> well, let me chekck. I don't think it got installed. ...
[02:40] <pragmaticenigma> if you just installed the gdm package... I don't think it would have been installed
[02:40] <oerheks> he started with server + ssh,..
[02:42] <oerheks> the ppa did not pull in lightdm, leftyfb got it right, gdm3 is.. i gave the reconfigure line for lightdm.. even the systemctl thingy
[02:43] <leftyfb> I just confirmed, no ubuntu-desktop package installed
[02:43] <leftyfb> so ... fresh install of ubuntu server, install e17 and gdm3 , reboot, pick DE, done
[02:43] <pragmaticenigma> cool!
[02:44] <oerheks> wayyyyyyyyyyyland?
[05:27] <Psi-Jack> There, got Ubuntu 19.10 on my primary desktop. now.
[07:17] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:30] <ducasse> good morning
[10:14] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[12:06] <Fuseteam> Morning
[12:16] <Ussat> o/
[12:55] <Psi-Jack> Well, this sucks... Rambox Pro randomly stopped... Loading..
[14:31] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm
[15:08] <pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: You survived the after hours!
[15:12] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: is your wiki ready for the public enough to make a factoid out of it? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> the old !encrypt was deleted, so we could use one :p
[15:14] <pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: yes, I meant to tell you earlier... I asked TJ last week about it, and he put a little extra polish and did other essential linking to ready it
[15:14] <TJ-> lotuspsychje:  yes, it is. pragmaticenigma asked over the weekend and I removed the "beta" tag
[15:14] <lotuspsychje> ah great
[15:15] <lotuspsychje> anyone has a proposal for a factoid line, im not sure howto formulate it
[15:17] <TJ-> hmmm - "installing with Full Disk Encryption done properly" !?
[15:18] <pragmaticenigma> "How to lose all your data in a few simple steps"
[15:18] <pragmaticenigma> oh wait
[15:18] <lotuspsychje> lol
[15:18] <pragmaticenigma> that was that other command
[15:25] <pragmaticenigma> Full Disk Encryption at Boot ?
[15:28] <lotuspsychje> cant recall anymore
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> and we probably need to integrate both !encrypt and !luks ?
[15:30] <pragmaticenigma> !luks
[15:31] <lotuspsychje> hggdh-msft: can you magicly recall old factoid lines?
[15:31] <pragmaticenigma> I guess my question is, is this a go forward technique... or is this more of a recommended approach to full drive encrpytion
[15:33] <hggdh-msft> if the factoid has been deleted, it is gone, as far as I can remember
[15:35] <lotuspsychje> ok
[15:38] <hggdh-msft> lotuspsychje: https://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?search=encrypt
[16:12] <Psi-Jack> Hmmmm.. Well, I ended up getting Rambox Pro to work again, but by downloading the .deb package and not using the snap, which is... Unusual, It's the only snap app that just stopped working. RamboxCE and RamboxPro both....
[16:13] <Psi-Jack> Anyone have any ideas on this? Snaps are still kinda new to me in general.
[16:20]  * daftykins points at the topic
[16:22] <Psi-Jack> Yes? What about it?
[16:24] <daftykins> well, forgive me... but i think your query is closer to support than discussion
[16:24] <pragmaticenigma> except the question would be offtopic in #ubuntu I think too
[16:24] <Psi-Jack> I'm trying to better understand snap, how I could possibly use it to understand what happened.
[16:25] <Psi-Jack> In general respect. ramboxpro itself hasn't been changed since what seems to be December 2018.
[16:25] <Psi-Jack> Err, 20219 sorry. :)
[16:26]  * Psi-Jack tosses his keyboard out the window and replaces it instantly with the same one.
[16:27] <pragmaticenigma> I'm not really well versed with snaps... but high level. they are a container, that brings along all the necessary dependencies to operate. The snap run without any support from the host OS other than the snapd service. Many of the snaps will require you  to contact the maintainer for support question, or in your case, bugs
[16:37] <Psi-Jack> hmmm. I opened a ticket with them to see if they have any clue.
[16:37] <Psi-Jack> Guess I'll get the full effect of my trial of their pro version, See if they're worth paying into. :)
[17:15] <Psi-Jack> Heh, there's now 2 open cases with Rambox Pro people. The inability to specifically save login with Discord.... Which Rambox CE had no issues with...
[17:43] <pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack: Considering what you are using isn't part of the Ubuntu eco-system... please consider it offtopic here
[21:39] <Bashing-om> UWN620 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue620 :D
[22:01] <Fuseteam> Oof got openemis to work on ubuntu with nginx and i have no idea what change was the crucial one


[00:51] <broder> hey, what do i need to do to get an ubuntu cloak other than ask in here? (i'm https://launchpad.net/~broder)
[00:56] <benonsoftware> broder: You're aleady a Ubuntu Member so just wait for a IRC Council member to approve the cloak and add you to the team
[00:57] <broder> benonsoftware: and asking in here is sufficient to get that started?
[00:57] <benonsoftware> Yep
[00:57] <broder> cool
[01:00] <Unit193> AlanBell, Pici, topyli.   Just a little bit of IRCC hilight there.
[01:02] <benonsoftware> There should be a IRCC factoird
[02:41] <Pici> broder: you're all set :)
[02:42] <Unit193> broder: Congrats!
[02:42] <IdleOne> Congrats broder
[02:43] <broder> thanks folks
[02:43] <Pici> congrats on getting a cloak although you've been a dev for a while ;)
[02:44] <broder> haha yeah, i've just been lazy :)
[06:38] <AlanBell> Unit193: benonsoftware: I have ircc on hilight, I suspect the others have too
[06:38] <benonsoftware> Ah
[06:39]  * benonsoftware apologize for the #ubuntu-ops spam
[06:39] <benonsoftware> s/apologize/apologizes/
[06:40] <Unit193> I just did a monkey see, monkey do. :P
[07:26] <bkerensa> =o
[07:32] <AlanBell> people are reminded that today is the deadline for nominations for the remaining IRCC position
[08:16] <topyli> benonsoftware: if you want to be amused, we discussed the factoid at great length, pondering pros and cons. a hour later we decided to add !irccouncil, only to find out it already exists :)
[08:17] <C-4> Hi, I have just been kicked by the op of #ubuntu-bd because I told him that the +O he has assigned to him there is not appropriate for a public channel. How can we solve this?
[08:17] <C-4> I asked that on #ubuntu-ops but some told be to ask here.
[08:17] <C-4> The involved operator ther is Ekushey
[08:21] <topyli> seems to be channel owner
[08:21] <C-4> He is, but also a tyrant.
[08:21] <C-4> He set +V to everyone, I told him that is unnecessary.
[08:23] <C-4> Last few conversation with him:
 But can you state the importance of having +O for you?
 sure, let me show you
[08:23] <C-4> --- Ekushey sets ban on *!*@wikimedia/wikitanvir
[08:23] <C-4> --- You have been kicked from #ubuntu-bd by Ekushey (Bye!)
[08:23] <topyli> such critique doesn't seem like a very good reason for removing the critic. it might be best presented off-channel though
[08:24] <C-4> Who knows.. the fact is I cannot join.
[08:25] <C-4> Ubunutu IRC ops certainly have people to solve dispute like this, right?
[08:25] <C-4> I mean banning someone like this is not justified at all.
[08:28] <topyli> the irc council could at best talk to the owner. it would be best if you could discuss with him and resolve the ban amicably though
[08:28] <topyli> (the ircc prefers to leave as much loco channel governance to them as possible)
[08:29] <benonsoftware> topyli: lol, I only saw a couple lines of it being discussed :P
[08:29] <C-4> That's the point.
[08:29] <C-4> He nuked me at the first sight to show the power.
[08:31] <topyli> is the channel publicly logged?
[08:31] <C-4> Yes.
[08:31] <C-4> You can see the whole discussion we made.
[08:33] <C-4> topyli, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-bd.html
[08:33] <C-4> See some there.
[08:34] <C-4> Full log is not available now I think.
[08:34] <topyli> yes there's always a little lag
[08:36] <C-4> Topyli, can you help me to find a #ubuntu-* GC?
[08:36]  * benonsoftware thinks topyli is *technically* co-GC :P
[08:37] <C-4> Oh, thanks benonsoftware. :-)
[08:37] <C-4> Sorry, but I am a bit annoyed of such unjustified bans.
[08:38] <C-4> I am not a troll, also a fellow IRC ops in 100+ channels. I was just suggesting for something good and he banned me!
[08:38] <C-4> So disappointing.
[08:38] <topyli> yes the irc channel is the gc for all channels in the ubuntu-* namespace
[08:38] <C-4> That is what I thought. :-)
[08:39] <topyli> if this needs to be escalated however, i'd rather bother the loco council :)
[08:39] <C-4> I talked to a Freenode staff, and he asked me to ask GC about this.
[08:39] <topyli> s/irc channel/irc council/
[08:39] <C-4> Topyli, he is in the logo council I think.
[08:40] <C-4> loco
[08:40] <C-4> I am not sure, he is the only channel contact of #ubuntu-bd on the Ubuntu Wiki also..
[08:40] <C-4> But something has to be done, when the guy leader does not abide the law.
[08:41] <topyli> he's not on the council
[08:41] <C-4> He is not. :-)
[08:54] <trijntje> Hi all, we have someone taunting the ops in #ubuntu-nl, but they are away. Is this the right place to ask for a ban?
[08:54] <trijntje> the user's nick is DAOF
[08:54] <C-4> Trijntje, if that channel has op for Freenode staffs, you could easily ask a staff.
[08:55] <C-4> On #freenode
[08:55] <trijntje> C-4: I did, and they referred me to this channel :P
[08:55] <C-4> Usually ubuntu channel has +o to Freenode staffs.
[08:55] <C-4> Oh, my. Okay. :-P
[08:55] <benonsoftware> trijntje: Sadly staff nor IRCC are on the access list
[08:57] <AlanBell> benonsoftware: that isn't a major problem
[08:57] <trijntje> ah well, I'll just wait till our admins return, or the user gets bored and leaves
[08:58] <haneefmubarak> I have an IRC question relating to Ubuntu, and believe this is where I ought to ask.
[08:59] <haneefmubarak> Anyone awake here?
[08:59] <AlanBell> hi haneefmubarak
[08:59] <haneefmubarak> Hello.
[08:59] <haneefmubarak> So, I was wondering if there ought to be an #ubuntu-defocus channel.
[09:00] <haneefmubarak> I would;t mind starting it, in fact, I just did...
[09:00] <benonsoftware> haneefmubarak: We already have #ubuntu-offtopic
[09:00] <haneefmubarak> *wouldn't
[09:00] <haneefmubarak> ahh...
[09:00] <haneefmubarak> ok
[09:00] <haneefmubarak> How do you make a channel redirect to another?
[09:00] <AlanBell> trijntje: I believe the problem is now fixed
[09:01] <AlanBell> haneefmubarak: don't worry about it, if you just leave #ubuntu-defocus it will disappear
[09:01] <trijntje> AlanBell: indeed, I just noticed
[09:02] <AlanBell> JanC: you might want to consider adding freenode/staff and ubuntuirccouncil to the access list
[09:03] <JanC> I don't think I can do that, but will suggest to those who can  ☺
[09:03] <JanC> actually, they'd better give me the power to do that, as I'm the only one around most of the time...
[09:08] <JanC> AlanBell: DAOF == fujisan BTW
[09:09] <fujisan> JanC:
[09:09] <fujisan> JanC:  not in here
[09:10] <fujisan> leave me alone here
[09:10] <fujisan> anyways back to work bye
[09:17] <elky> fujisan, You've been told to stop that harassment.
[09:27] <k1l_> this guy must be bored as hell. he even comes trolling in our german channels from time to time :/
[09:28] <haneefmubarak> "fujisan"?
[09:28] <k1l_> yep
[09:28] <haneefmubarak> Just curious, what does he do?
[09:29] <haneefmubarak> k1l_: What does he do?
[09:29] <k1l_> offtopic, insults, ...  trolling
[09:29] <haneefmubarak> Give me an example.
[09:30] <haneefmubarak> k1l_: Example?
[09:30] <k1l_> you dont know trolling?
[09:30] <haneefmubarak> I do, but what kind of stuff does he do?
[09:30] <tsimpson> whatever it takes to get a reaction usually
[09:30] <haneefmubarak> Make everyone look stupid, say stupid stuff, paste chains, etc?
[09:31] <k1l_> haneefmubarak: disturb the support channel with unrelated offtopic links to boulevard storys.
[09:31] <haneefmubarak> Boulevard stories?
[09:32] <k1l_> or insult the ops from the ubuntu-nl  channels
[09:32] <haneefmubarak> What's a boulevard story?
[09:32] <k1l_> haneefmubarak: 2012-04-29:15:40:00<         fujisan > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136265/Dentist-Anna-Mackowiak-pulled-ALL-boyfriend-Marek-Olszewski-s-teeth-dumped-her.html?ICO=most_read_module -_-
[09:33] <haneefmubarak> That's not even valid, lola...
[09:33] <haneefmubarak> *lolz
[09:33] <k1l_> it was at that time
[09:33] <haneefmubarak> I'm guessing you've warned him before, then?
[09:33] <k1l_> he got kicked several times before that. and dont tell me he is not trolling on purpose
[09:34] <haneefmubarak> I see.
[09:34] <jussi> He is a serial troll - been doing it for years
[09:34] <haneefmubarak> So he's essentially acting like an advanced 5 year old...
[09:34] <haneefmubarak> That's a new one: Serial Troll.
[09:35] <haneefmubarak> WARNING: SERIAL TROLLER 'FUJISAN' ON THE LOOSE. LAST SEEN ON #UBUNTU*. REPORT IF SEEN.
[09:35] <haneefmubarak> lolz...
[09:35] <Tm_T> ...
[09:36] <k1l_> most ppl troll because they are bored or mad at sth. but after some time they come back to a regular basis and in our channels most trolls could be unbanned after some time. but he seems to be a very persistant one
[09:37] <haneefmubarak> I can tell.
[09:37] <jussi> I think he just likes the attention :D
[09:37] <haneefmubarak> You all seem quite frustrated. My empathies are with you.
[09:37] <jussi> and my quassels with you :P :P :P
[09:37] <jussi> (sorry, bad joke)
[09:38] <haneefmubarak> lolz...
[09:38] <Tm_T> k1l_: unbanning in his case, you can forget that idea
[09:38] <haneefmubarak> I whoised you after you said it...
[09:38] <haneefmubarak> Well, give him a chance after like two weeks.
[09:39] <Tm_T> haneefmubarak: after all these years?
[09:39] <k1l_> Tm_T: yep
[09:39] <Tm_T> jussi01-nom: nomnomnom
[09:39] <haneefmubarak> Years?
[09:39] <haneefmubarak> Excuse me, but: 'da fuq?'
[09:40] <jussi01-nom> Tm_T: omnomnomnom
[09:40] <Tm_T> haneefmubarak: he has a history (and that's all that needs to be discussed of it I think)
[09:40] <AlanBell> haneefmubarak: we tend to let people back in when they convince us that their behaviour has changed
[09:40] <haneefmubarak> I see...
[09:40] <haneefmubarak> Good policies.
[09:40] <AlanBell> sometimes we tell people to go away for a period of time, but it isn't the time that is important, it is the change
[09:41] <HaneefMubarak> True.
[09:41] <JanC> HaneefMubarak: I gave him about 500 chances, that's been more than enough, I think
[09:42] <HaneefMubarak> I once said 'gay' on ParadoxIRC, and got kb'ed from five separate channels. I apologized, and never did it again… They were fine with me (as usual) after a day or two.
[09:43] <HaneefMubarak> Did he ever recognize what he did and apologize? I wrote up a full-page letter of apology and pm'd it via a forum...
[09:44] <k1l_> as you can just see in the -nl logs he is not stopping his behaviour.
[09:45] <HaneefMubarak> I see.
[09:45] <HaneefMubarak> Do you guys speak dutch in the =nl channel?
[09:45] <HaneefMubarak> Or do you just use english?
[09:46] <k1l_> #ubuntu is the common channel of english
[09:47] <HaneefMubarak> Ah, so you speak in dutch?
[09:47] <HaneefMubarak> Yup.
[09:49] <JanC> HaneefMubarak: he will apologise if he thinks that will get him in again
[09:49] <HaneefMubarak> Has he ever apologized, though?
[09:49] <JanC> but after tens of apologies, they aren't believable anymore
[09:50] <HaneefMubarak> Ah.
[09:50] <HaneefMubarak> Like the Boy who Cried "Wolf!"...
[10:03] <jussi01-nom> Anyoen remember what the irssi script that gives you the channel names is?
[10:03] <Unit193> adv_windowlist
[10:03] <Unit193> ?
[10:04] <jussi01-nom> Unit193: ahh yes, that one, thanks
[14:12]  * Fuchs hands the ircc a pony of appreciation and some cupcakes and says thanks
[14:15] <AlanBell> \o/ a pony
[14:41] <czajkowski> aloha
[14:41] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[14:42] <czajkowski> you rang :)
[14:43] <AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-irc.html background from this channel
[14:43] <czajkowski> AlanBell: am around for the next 10 or so mins before a call
[14:44] <AlanBell> so C-4 has been banned from #ubuntu-bd and feels that it was unreasonable
[14:45] <SergioMeneses> AlanBell, ping
[14:45] <huats> I am there too
[14:45] <huats> so that I can backlog
[14:46] <AlanBell> the general opinion of the ops team seems to be that on the face of it, looking at just those logs, a ban does not look to be fully justified
[14:46] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye it was a bit much to kick and do that to him tbh, if the loco contact is going to be that unhelpful and ban people it's not really going to help promote the loco
[14:46] <czajkowski> AlanBell: indeed
[14:50] <Pici> Hrm. that log is indeed troubling.
[14:50] <czajkowski> AlanBell: so as ops are ye stepping in to unban the person ?
[14:50] <AlanBell> perhaps we should invite Ekushey here to have a chat
[14:51] <czajkowski> AlanBell: thats up to ye, but given the timezone difference that may be harader.
[14:53] <Pici> Perhaps a ban reversal and an email from the ircc would be good.
[14:53]  * C-4 walks in. Sorry, but I am not sure if it is good to talk between your discussions?
[14:54] <AlanBell> hi C-4
[14:54] <C-4> Hello AlanBell. :-)
[14:54] <C-4> And all. :-)
[14:54] <k1l_> anywhere in the freenode guidelines it says something like "dont give +O because it attracts the attention of ppl who react negatively to authority" which i think was the intention at the mentioning of the +O
[14:54] <AlanBell> I think it would be best to talk to Ekushey before doing anything like removing the ban
[14:54] <AlanBell> C-4 what time is it there now?
[14:55] <C-4> 20:55.
[14:55] <czajkowski> AlanBell: that's yer call not ours to make, but maybe we should follow up with the team
[14:55] <czajkowski> huats: SergioMeneses ^^^
[14:55] <Fuchs> k1l_: it is against our guidelines, yes. but not against policies
[14:55] <C-4> First I need want to say I agree with Pici and Czajkowski here. Additionally..
[14:56] <Fuchs> so from a staff point of view: no rules broken. from a personal point of view: the ban was a very bad idea
[14:56] <k1l_> yep, i didnt want to make it look like its forbidden
[14:56] <Pici> Fuchs: right, those are guidelines, not rules.
[14:56] <Fuchs> assuming we are talking about the #ubuntu-br one, i am here from my mobile, didnt see the paste
[14:56] <k1l_> i just wanted to state, that its a common use not to use +O
[14:56] <C-4> I am in that channel for more than a year, and that channel. People rarely joins in that channel. Specially they join when they got notified about a meeting in Ubuntu-BD mailing list..
[14:57] <SergioMeneses> completly agree whit czajkowski
[14:57] <Pici> Fuchs: ubuntu-bd
[14:57] <Fuchs> it is, and also to not place silly bans like that, but rather catalyze
[14:57] <k1l_> (which should be discussed after the ban-unban thing is resolved imho)
[14:57] <Fuchs> Pici: errm, xes, that. sorry
[14:57] <C-4> For moths it was only me there, and Ekushey most likely runs a server session, so I think he is not around all time / or most of the time, not sure.
[14:58] <Fuchs> so i as an external person would recommend that someone talks to the op about how to represent the project
[14:58] <C-4> Things wer this: It was +V for another guy and +O for Ekushey for a long time.. later today I told that to Ekushey and asked what was the reason of that? He did not reply to me, he just gave voice to other people on that channel but me.
[14:59] <Fuchs> it gives a bit of a bad picture.
[14:59] <C-4> I asked him why voicing everyone now? Then he voiced me and said he is going to have a breakfast..
[14:59] <C-4> Well, later when he came back I told him the facts that +O is not needed there and not even +V.
[14:59] <C-4> And you all saw the log.
[15:00] <C-4> When I said what was the reason to of +O finally, he just said, here is the reason and banned me.
[15:00] <Pici> I think we all agree with you C-4, that this was inappropriate action.
[15:00] <C-4> AlanBell and Topyli know all from the beginning.
[15:02] <C-4> So, while he is being that arrogant (no offence to him, I don't even know him), I think asking his opinion is something he does not deserve, what he deserve is a bit strong tone form IRC council members or GC whatever you say here.
[15:04] <C-4> I did not know any #ubuntu-* GC so I contacted to Freenode staff Jayne (as Freenode staffs have +o there), he said they can act when they are being asked by GCs. So later I found out this channel by poking people in #ubuntu-ops
[15:05] <Pici> C-4: We will be discussing the issue with Ekushey shortly.
[15:06] <k1l_> C-4: honestly (and as an external person) i think its always good to let the other side state its view of the things. because you never know what happend outside the public logs. not meant to be rude to you but history showed its not always that easy as it looks like. so give it a time. its not going to be a 2minutes resolving
[15:07] <czajkowski> C-4: I think you've raised the issue and the ircc will look into it so possibly rehashing the same thing isn't going to change things right now, but rest assured it will be looked into
[15:07] <Pici> czajkowski: thanks :)
[15:07] <C-4> K1l_, totally understandable. This started this morning or so, so I am all ears.
[15:08] <C-4> Czajkowski, thanks!
[15:20] <AlanBell> Ekushey: hi
[15:20] <Ekushey> hi AlanBell
[15:20] <Ekushey> huge channel!
[15:21] <Ekushey> last time i was here, it wasn't this big
[15:21] <AlanBell> yeah, all the IRC operators across the #ubuntu-* namespace are welcome to idle here
[15:21] <AlanBell> and chat and such
[15:21] <Ekushey> wasn't aware of that!
[15:22] <AlanBell> anyhow, we would like to hear a bit about the ban of C-4 from this morning
[15:22] <AlanBell> the log of this channel from today is here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-irc.html
[15:23] <AlanBell> and from #ubuntu-bd is here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-bd.html
[15:23] <Ekushey> which part do i need to explain?
[15:23] <AlanBell> any background we are missing really, the ban looks a bit premature based on the log file
[15:25] <Ekushey> well there's no other background to it really... he got upset about the +o and +v on channels and kept on repeating the same thing
[15:26] <Ekushey> if you go through the old logs, you'll see that i don't get myself +o, only when i need to change the topic and so on
[15:27] <Ekushey> he kept as saying the same thing again and again as if i don't know freenode guidelines
[15:28] <AlanBell> the channel flags are set up a little unusually for an Ubuntu channel
[15:28] <Ekushey> which flag exactly AlanBell?
[15:29] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/CreatingChannels
[15:29] <AlanBell> normally we suggest +votiA for operators
[15:30] <Ekushey> this wiki page didn't exist when the channel was created :)
[15:30] <Ekushey> reading it
[15:35] <Ekushey> ok so what changes do you suggest for the channel AlanBell?
[15:36] <AlanBell> Ekushey: well I would suggest removing the ban, and having a think about the flags, we don't have any specific hard rules about them, but there are guidelines
[15:36] <AlanBell> and continue to hang about in this channel :)
[15:38] <Ekushey> he's on 2 more channels of mine and instead of talking to me he comes here to lodge a complaint?
[15:39] <AlanBell> really, I wouldn't worry about that too much, this is the right place for discussing and resolving bans in the channels
[15:40] <Ekushey> he'll het unbanned anyway
[15:42] <Ekushey> but what will happen if i don't, what will happen? just curious to know :)
[15:43] <AlanBell> well we are the group contacts for all of the #ubuntu-* channels so we can trump local operators, we just avoid needing to do so by talking nicely to people ;)
[15:44] <Ekushey> lol
[15:44] <Ekushey> so that is what i get after 6 years of service?
[15:44] <Ekushey> not fair ;)
[15:47] <AlanBell> we should have a long service award
[15:47] <AlanBell> gold watch or something is traditional I think
[15:47] <Ekushey> haha
[15:48] <Daviey> Ekushey: i'd imagine after '6 years service' you'd use your power more carefully. :)
[15:49] <Ekushey> Daviey: he asked for it
[15:50] <k1l_> after 6 years of service you should have taken a look into the freenode guidelines imho.
[15:51] <Ekushey> k1l_: i've read it already
[15:51] <czajkowski> Ekushey: he really didn't to be honest, he wanted his question answered
[15:51] <k1l_> the state that +O or +V is not reommended :/
[15:51] <Ekushey> hi czajkowski :)
[15:52] <k1l_> and that you are running "your channel" in that way is a bad way which comes back to the whole ubuntu community imho. that is why there are guidelines how to setup channels and how to resolve issues when it comes to debatable situations. i think you should know this after 6 years of service
[15:53] <Ekushey> k1l_: let's not take it to another direction
[15:55] <Ekushey> other than meeting times, the only users on the channel are the bots and me
[15:56] <AlanBell> personally I am not massively bothered about the flags, that issue only arose due to the ban for someone questioning the unusual flags
[15:57] <Ekushey> AlanBell: i'm still confused about the flags
[15:57] <czajkowski> on which part?
[15:57] <Ekushey> exactly which flag is incorrect?
[15:57] <Fuchs> Ekushey: freenode does not recommend staying op all the time, and therefore the +O flag.
[15:58] <AlanBell> the +O and +V automatically op and voice on join
[15:58] <Ekushey> ohhh!
[15:58] <AlanBell> +o and +v allow you to get ops and voice from chanserv
[15:58] <Fuchs> Ekushey: you can op up with chanserv whenever you need it, see /msg chanserv help op
[15:58] <AlanBell> so you can do /msg changserv op #ubuntu-bd as and when you need it
[15:58] <Ekushey> I should have clarified about that!
[15:58] <k1l_> Ekushey: case sensitiveness of +o and +O
[15:58] <Fuchs> (if you have the +o flag, that is)
[15:58] <AlanBell> this is what C-4 was trying to tell you!
[16:01] <Ekushey> i mentioned after join here that you won't find in the logs that i get +o for me all the time... only when it's needed to change the topic and voicing someone from time to time
[16:01] <AlanBell> I have to pop out for a bit, if others could assist Ekushey with the flags and such that would be great
[16:02] <AlanBell> I haven't looked at the current setup in detail
[16:05] <Ekushey> last time i got it was less than a day ago to logged out before deoping myself, and the incident that happend today was after i logged in today (i'm using a bnc account)
[16:06] <Ekushey> when someone wants to pickup an issue, they will bring up anything and everything
[16:08] <Ekushey> as if i put on +o for days after days
[16:20] <Ekushey> i need to leave now
[16:22] <topyli> Ekushey: did you remove the ban btw?
[16:23] <topyli> I'm mobile, just having a quick peek here :)
[16:23] <Ekushey> not yet, will do
[16:24] <topyli> ok good
[16:28] <Ekushey> czajkowski: you around?
[19:08] <bkerensa> AlanBell: who went missing in action from the ircc?
[19:11] <Myrtti> huh?
[19:12] <AlanBell> nobody bkerensa
[19:12] <AlanBell> there were 4 applicants for 5 positions at the end of last year, we are filling the empty seat
[19:13] <bkerensa> AlanBell: ah
[19:13] <bkerensa> AlanBell: Well IRCC is doing great work imho :)
[20:02] <k1l> AlanBell: ping
[20:49] <AlanBell> hi
[20:50] <Unit193> Hello.
[20:51] <Unit193> Side note, our LoCo has ReLoCo leads that get +V in channel to show who are the leads, no problems really.
[20:53] <k1l> AlanBell: time fo a qry?
[20:53] <k1l> *for
[20:54] <AlanBell> sure, or pop into #ubuntu-irc-council


[01:18] <pleia2> hmm, someone changed a setting on our mailing list so posts were coming from the list
[01:19] <pleia2> Vantrax, doctormo, did either of you make the change? is there anyone else with access?
[01:20] <doctormo> pleia2: I haven't changed the account settings, but I do remember my computer clicking on something today... I may have to check.
[01:23] <doctormo> pleia2: Nope, what ever I did today couldn't have effected the mailing list settings.
[01:23] <pleia2> ok
[01:23] <pleia2> well if it wasn't any of us, we may consider changing the password just to be safe
[01:24] <pleia2> (not sure why someone would log in and change a strange setting, but whatever :))
[02:25] <Vantrax> what happened to the list?
[02:25] <pleia2> Vantrax: all emails started coming from the list rather than individual members (it's an option in mailman)
[02:26] <Vantrax> fixed or still doing it?
[02:26] <pleia2> I fixed it
[02:26] <Vantrax> I dont remember changing any settings
[02:27] <Vantrax> Was looking around in the the other day.
[02:27] <pleia2> was just trying to figure out how it got that way, if it wasn't one of us I think we should consider changing the password in case someone else did
[02:35] <Vantrax> do it, just email it out to the rest of us:P
[02:35] <pleia2> will do