[00:48] <Azelphur> Anyone here got chromium (daily or from the Ubuntu repos) and mind testing a page for me?
[00:49] <directhex> i have firefox on windows. close enough?
[00:49] <Azelphur> Nope, haha
[00:49] <Azelphur> I have an odd rendering bug that I think is actually a bug in the browser
[00:50] <Azelphur> Think it might just be in the dailies though
[00:50] <Azelphur> Page layout == broken, Open chromium inspector, Page layout == magically fixed \o/
[00:51] <Azelphur> and somehow I doubt the entire page layout should change, simply by the action of opening the inspector haha
[08:21] <DJones> Morning all
[08:21] <Myrtti> morning UGT
[08:22] <popey> UGH
[08:27] <Myrtti> popey: feeling tender?
[08:28]  * TheOpenSourcerer feels like death warmed (only just) up.
[08:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have the worst sore throat *evah*.
[08:29] <popey> a bit
[08:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Spent the last two days doing vtiger CRM training/consulting, getting up at stupid o-clock, i.e. < 5am driving loads and not sleeping well. Today will be a quiet day for me.
[08:32] <gord> this *entire* week, to go to work, i have had to walk like maybe 500x the amount i normally have to walk to go to work, its been the worst thing ever
[08:46] <daubers> Morning
[08:47] <awilkins> I like this coach on the train. No-one can be bothered to walk this far up the platform to take their reserved seat.
[08:50] <popey> haha gord
[08:50] <popey> we walked over the river last night
[08:50] <popey> my legs still ache
[08:52] <gord> popey, over to the castle? went there during budapest uds, not a bad place, such a tourist trap though
[08:53] <awilkins> My favourite thing in Budapest was on old swimming bath
[08:54] <popey> it was empty at 1pm when we went there gord
[08:54] <awilkins> They looked at me like I was mad though - "You are rich western businessman in hotel, you want to use our crappy pool?"
[08:54] <awilkins> Lovely architecture.
[08:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I had a nice time in Budapest. The steep climb up to the old city is quite a stroll.
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> The first couple of hours I got there, I was wandering the new town, window shopping, when an attractive lady approached me asking if I would like a guide. I said "no thank you" then she replied with "What's your problem, don't you like sex?" lol
[08:59] <directhex> fosdem is coming up zomg zomg zomg
[09:01] <Myrtti> oh dear, what is the name of the webbased multiuser texteditor again? not google docs
[09:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Do you mean etherpad Myrtti ?
[09:01] <Myrtti> thank you
[09:02] <directhex> etherlol
[09:03] <directhex> nothing says "enterprise" like running three copies of OpenOffice as background daemons
[09:03] <gord> there is a "spooky cave" system that i went in, its all so fake that its funny ;) got some fun 3d pictures of some weird red wine fountain though http://3dporch.com/gc4e
[09:03] <gord> rest of the 3d photos i got that day are fun too http://3dporch.com/users/gordallott
[09:04] <directhex> ARGH SHAKYCAM
[09:05] <gord> get yourself a 3ds and download the mpo files :P
[09:05] <directhex> Model               |Nintendo 3DS
[09:05] <directhex> ._.
[09:07] <directhex> you can view mpo files on a ps3, btw
[09:08] <gord> 3ds is a neat bit of kit for 3d, wrote a script the other day that converts 3d video into the format 3ds needs, can watch 3d things on my 3ds now
[09:08] <directhex> http://www.sony.co.uk/hub/playmemories
[09:10] <Myrtti> gord: ooooooo
[09:10] <Myrtti> nice
[09:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Testing Required: Unity PPA - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/12/testing-required-unity-ppa/
[09:10] <Myrtti> gord: please share?
[09:11] <AlanBell> Myrtti: etherpad-lite is very nice
[09:11] <AlanBell> directhex: etherpad-lite uses abiword rather than OOo
[09:12] <AlanBell> and node.js serverside javascript rather than java
[09:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[09:12] <Myrtti> AlanBell: we were just having a discussion in #ubuntu-se about how to do multiuser editing of LaTeX - I used to use MediaWiki for sketching and transfer the end result to LaTeX
[09:12] <AlanBell> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[09:12] <gord> Myrtti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/762582/ - requires 3d video in left/right format (the same one that youtube and most other things use) - 3ds has a limit of 10 minutes per video too so you have to split the video up before encoding
[09:13] <Myrtti> bookmarked
[09:14] <gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf3BMLh_zGk is particularly nice in 3d
[09:21]  * directhex has a 3d tv & high-res 3d camera, but no 3ds
[09:23] <Myrtti> gord: OMG the noise in the beginning
[09:23] <Myrtti> ARGH
[09:29] <gord> Myrtti, http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKf3BMLh_zGk&start1=15&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSoSG3m4FHgQ&start2=0&authorName=gord might help ;)
[09:32] <JamesTait> Good morning, all! :D
[09:58] <gord> why oh why does my phone think i'm in dublin Ireland...
[10:03] <directhex> gord, because it's using an IP address for geolocation, and there's a proxy someplace causing the misidentifcation?
[10:03] <directhex> similarly, mobile o2 users often get given german google
[10:03] <gord> oh, right - i remember now. its the AP
[10:03] <gord> used to happen with dallas too
[10:04] <gord> google did a scan or something so whenever i hooked up to the ubuntu wifi network that gets taken out to events it would think i was in dallas, now it thinks i'm in the last place it scanned, so dublin i guess
[10:30] <Myrtti> herm.
[10:31] <Myrtti> can anyone think of a web service where I could put a pin on Google Maps or similar and tell it to draw a circle according to driving time?
[10:58] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:03] <bigcalm> Oh dear, PremierInn still don't get it
[11:04] <bigcalm> Just received an email promoting their 30mins free wifi!
[11:04] <bigcalm> They should be offering unlimited free wifi
[11:04] <bigcalm> If service stations can do it...
[11:06] <Laney> only £9.99 per hour thereafter?
[11:07] <bigcalm> 3 quid for 24 hours usage apparently
[11:07] <bigcalm> In this day and age, wifi should not be something you have to pay extra for at a hotel
[11:07] <Myrtti> well three quids isn't too bad for occasional user
[11:08] <Myrtti> could be far far worse
[11:08] <AlanBell> meeting tonight peeps
[11:08] <bigcalm> Tether to mobile phone, carry on regardless
[11:08] <daubers> AlanBell: Time?
[11:08] <AlanBell> 9PM
[11:08] <daubers> okies :)
[11:17] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:18] <mgdm> 'ello brobostigon, how goes?
[11:19] <brobostigon> mgdm: not so hot, my eczema is not so good, and feeling ill, and you?
[11:19]  * bigcalm prays to the all mighty god Dermovate Cream
[11:20] <mgdm> brobostigon: I'm OK - bit similar though not to the same degree
[11:20] <brobostigon> mgdm: ok.
[11:23] <Myrtti> I feel cheated
[11:24] <Myrtti> "Great British Cooking" book has yorkshire puds as the cover picture, but the book doesn't have a recipe for them.
[11:25] <christel> haha
[11:25] <davmor2> morning all
[11:26] <mgdm> Myrtti: fail. Though they're not hard - I think I got one off the BBC's site last I looked
[11:26] <davmor2> popey: aka brian how's life
[11:27] <Myrtti> mgdm: I know they're not hard, but I'm baffled at this failure. they're referenced to three times in the book, and the closest to a recipe it gets in "Toad in the hole" recipe "yorkshire pudding with sausages" - but it is just... baffling
[11:27] <Myrtti> also baffled by the book having been printed in China
[11:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Myrtti: YPs. 110g plain flour, 290ml milk, 2 eggs, pinch of salt.
[11:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Will make 12 popovers or one large YP
[11:31] <AlanBell> or some pancakes
[11:31] <christel> mmmpancakes
[11:33] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer, AlanBell, christel: Have you seen the latest epic moneysupermarket advert?
[11:33] <AlanBell> the one with popey in it?
[11:33] <davmor2> AlanBell: Yeap that exact one
[11:33] <christel> haha yes
[11:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Nope. tend not to watch tv much and if I happen to be on commercial tv generally ignore ads anyway.
[11:34] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/01/06/moneysupermarket-launches-new-epic-ad-set-las-vegas  tell me it isn't popey
[11:34] <bigcalm> davmor2: linky?
[11:34] <davmor2> bigcalm: ^
[11:34] <bigcalm> :)
[11:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - yep, that was popey a few years ago.
[11:36] <davmor2> AlanBell: the best of it is I saw it laughed and went that's popey and my mrs who has only met him once agreed
[11:36] <bigcalm> davmor2: yep, that's popey alright
[11:39] <JGJones> bigcalm - I often get free wifi at PremierInn
[11:40] <christel> i guess canonical just doesn't pay him enough!
[11:41] <davmor2> christel: that or it was recorded before he started his new job when he was contracting :)
[11:41] <christel> hehe
[11:44] <andylockran> morning all!
[11:51] <mattt> morning morning
[12:05] <davmor2> gord: when you see popey you need to start calling him Brian ;)
[12:08] <popey> or not
[12:09] <czajkowski> hmmm my precsise install is further acting up
[12:09] <czajkowski> tempted to go back to oneiric
[12:09] <czajkowski> when i power off and shut down
[12:09] <czajkowski> it doesnt seem to be doing so as i wake up to no battery
[12:09] <czajkowski> which is a bit bloody annoying
[12:16] <davmor2> popey: No you are brian from that advert you can try and deny it all you want but we know it's you really ;)
[12:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: Morning Darling how are we today :D
[12:16] <czajkowski> fantastic my dear as always
[12:16] <czajkowski> my day brightens up when I see davmor2
[12:17]  * davmor2 throws up in the bin
[12:18]  * AlanBell wonders if popey is feeling epic
[12:19] <bigcalm> "Vote Up requires 15 reputation" This irritates me as to get reputation I have to answer a question but I've yet to find one I can answer
[12:20] <davmor2> AlanBell: haha
[12:23]  * bigcalm flings unplesantaries at JungleDisk
[12:30]  * daubers wants to sleep
[12:39] <bigcalm> I've downloaded a .deb and installed it via the software centre. How do I then uninstall it? I can only see an option to reinstall
[12:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: did it install correctly?
[12:50] <bigcalm> No idea :)
[12:51] <bigcalm> Managed to uninstall it by finding out the package name
[12:51] <bigcalm> Odd that the software centre doesn't list packages installed from .debs
[12:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: it does under others
[12:54] <popey> bigcalm: filter and show only unanswered?
[12:55] <bigcalm> popey: yep, and I still can't find something I know about
[12:55] <popey> heh
[12:55] <popey> you can get points from other stackexchange sites AIUI
[12:58] <bigcalm> Humm, ok
[13:00] <Laney> I think you can get points for asking questions too
[13:00] <dewar> Hi, any1 here programming with python on kde?
[13:14] <directhex> hm. the cpu core on the raspberry pi's SoC is the same as the iphone 1, albeit at a higher clock rate
[13:15] <davmor2> popey: or you can install the arb approved unity lens askubuntu
[13:18] <popey> davmor2: how?
[13:19] <davmor2> popey: I don't understand lenses it's just there :D
[13:19] <popey> 'there'
[13:19] <popey> where is 'there'
[13:19] <davmor2> popey: it's available in USC.  under unity-lens-askubuntu iirc
[13:21] <davmor2> popey: wow I earned enough points to do stuff on it now
[13:22] <popey> davmor2: nope, not here it isnt
[13:28] <davmor2> popey: try clicking on view technical
[13:28] <popey> where?
[13:28] <popey> there is no view technical option
[13:29] <davmor2> popey: it is there and it is unity-lens-askubuntu
[13:29] <popey> it isnt
[13:29] <davmor2> popey: bottom left on the USC main panel
[13:29] <AlanBell> davmor2: precise or oneiric or both?
[13:29] <davmor2> popey: ah hang on it might only be enabled for Oneiric
[13:30] <davmor2> AlanBell: checking precise now
[13:30] <gord> hope someone is working on making the software centre quicker to show this cycle, would be nice
[13:30] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Workspace%201_051.png
[13:30] <AlanBell> what a sad little face
[13:31] <davmor2> gord: it already does on precise
[13:32] <gord> still takes 5 seconds or so here davmor2
[13:32] <davmor2> gord: mvo has code to get trunk to open in 1 second, not sure how long it takes to load post that bit though
[13:32] <davmor2> popey: Hmmm
[13:32] <gord> yeah all i really care about is that there is a window
[13:32] <gord> something that says "hey, don't get bored and start doing other things, you'll regret doing that when i pop over you"
[13:34] <davmor2> popey: /home/davmor2/Ubuntu One/screenshots/USC-askubuntu.png
[13:34] <davmor2> popey: I'll try that again http://ubuntuone.com/7XCW8MD7p8KSI0KICM8Xfh
[13:36] <davmor2> popey: looks like it isn't available for precise
[13:36] <Laney> ARB packages don't carry over
[13:36] <AlanBell> which is not very appealing to developers wanting to use that really
[13:37] <davmor2> Laney: we are still working through some of these teething issues this is the first app approved by arb that has been released using the new method
[13:37] <Laney> I know all about the ARB ;-)
[13:38] <AlanBell> it is as bad as the partner archive :(
[13:38] <Laney> the primary archive is da bomb
[13:38] <AlanBell> it is
[13:40]  * Gary is excited!
[13:40] <davmor2> AlanBell: The same is true of the for purchase apps,  we have a mass migration sprint towards beta stage to see what works and what doesn't before enabling it for the next release
[13:40] <Gary> I pick up a new car on Saturday!
[13:41] <daubers> Gary: Cor! You must have been doing lots of bench presses in preparation
[13:41] <Gary> daubers: hahaha
[13:41] <davmor2> daubers: no new cars are much lighter than old cars
[13:42] <AlanBell> davmor2: so purchase apps will be there from the release date?
[13:43] <davmor2> AlanBell: there or there abouts we are still waiting on some to be updated by the devs so we can release them on oneiric like wunderlist for example
[13:46]  * daubers puts an offer in on a house
[13:47] <davmor2> offer rejected we don't want scruffs like you in our neighbourhood ;)
[13:48] <daubers> davmor2: Since I've offered him 25k less than what he wanst, it probably will be
[13:48] <davmor2> daubers: depends on the cost of the house and how long it's been on the market :)
[13:51] <AlanBell> my brother had a rather cheeky offer accepted on a house recently, he should be moving in soon.
[14:01] <czajkowski> daubers: ohh where ?
[14:01] <czajkowski> Gary: very sexy car
[14:13] <daubers> czajkowski: Thatcham
[14:27] <Myrtti> must... restrain... the fist... of death....
[14:29] <kirrus> monsterwizard: fist of death?
[14:29] <monsterwizard> I'm sorry? :S
[14:29] <kirrus> argh, silly autocomplete
[14:29] <kirrus> Myrtti: fist of death?
[14:29] <kirrus> ;)
[14:29] <kirrus> sorry monsterwizard
[14:29] <Myrtti> kirrus: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6684418763/
[14:32] <kirrus> Myrtti: frustrating!.. though you uploaded the error message shot to flickr ok I see ;)
[14:32] <Myrtti> kirrus: didn't use shotwell to upload it :-/
[14:33] <Myrtti> took 14 attempts to upload 156 pictures, the biggest batch was 18
[14:34] <alexwillmer> Afternoon all, I'm trying to get my head around ulimit and limits.conf. If I set a limit such as -v (virtual memory size) is that limit enforced per child process, across all child processes or something else?
[14:35] <kirrus> Myrtti: give up and use a different uploader?
[14:36] <alexwillmer> My ultimate aim is to restrict Apache to a total amount of RAM given a ServerLimit of 20
[14:36] <Myrtti> kirrus: but that would be admitting you've been defeated...
[14:36] <AlanBell> alexwillmer: at least some of them are per-user limits
[14:37] <monsterwizard> Arch linux or gentoo?
[14:38] <gord> had to open banshee just to buy some music, crashed twice and nearly hung during my purchase :(
[14:38] <alexwillmer> AlanBell: but which ones, man ulimit doesn't say and google returns many man pages + forums
[14:40] <AlanBell> alexwillmer: sorry, not sure, I only know about -n which is the number of files per user which has a default of 1024 which can be a bit low for some server applications
[14:48] <s-fox> Hello
[14:57] <kirrus> hello s-fox
[14:57] <s-fox> Hello kirrus , how are you?
[14:57] <kirrus> Myrtti: yes... but sometimes that's all you can do
[14:57] <kirrus> s-fox: good, thanks, you?
[14:57] <kirrus> Myrtti: I did scan for error 7, but couldn't find anything helpful in the flickr docs
[14:58] <s-fox> kirrus,  So so, at work...working very hard ;)
[14:58] <Myrtti> kirrus: I know, I did too
[14:59] <kirrus> s-fox: best thing to be doing at work!
[16:56] <davmor2> Myrtti: you almost sound angry that you can't upload photo's
[17:08] <Laney> it's... oh... so... quiet...
[17:09] <bigcalm> Shhhhh
[17:15] <davmor2> bede bede,  It's...... Oh...... So ........ Stilll
[17:16] <kirrus> 'Twas the night before christmas, when all through the house / Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.'
[17:18] <Myrtti> davmor2: that's because photography is one of the constant joys of my life
[17:19] <christel> but but
[17:19] <christel> i thought i was the only joy of your life
[17:19] <bigcalm> Window's "Remote Desktop Connection" allows me to connect to a Windows 2008 server. Linux "Remote Desktop Viewer" isn't able to do so.  Men are so untrustworthy
[17:20] <bigcalm> Myrtti: love you too :)
[17:20] <kirrus> bigcalm: firewall? I've never had a problem with RDP before
[17:20] <Myrtti> bigcalm: hugses and kisses xxxx
[17:20] <bigcalm> kirrus: it's getting to the windows server box, but the login interface is different
[17:21] <bigcalm> Myrtti: I hope that penginue is keeping you warm at night :)
[17:21] <christel> <3 Myrtti
[17:21] <bigcalm> !
[17:21] <kirrus> bigcalm: never used the remote desktop on server 2008, only 2k, so don't know.. worth digging around in the control panel?
[17:21] <Myrtti> bigcalm: I put him on my bookcase to keep company with my pololbear and puffin while I was away
[17:21] <bigcalm> kirrus: was a matter of domain name
[17:21] <kirrus> bigcalm: ahh, that makes sense :)
[17:21] <Myrtti> correction: pololbears
[17:22]  * bigcalm grumbles at having to deal with windows
[17:22] <bigcalm> Now I have to figure out how to use IIS correctly
[17:22] <bigcalm> Myrtti: yay :)
[17:22]  * kirrus sympathises with bigcalm, and wishes him lots of luck
[17:23] <andylockran> IIS ?
[17:23] <bigcalm> andylockran: windows web server
[17:23] <andylockran> yeah
[17:27]  * davmor2 falls out with Myrtti for saying hurtful things :D  Is it just an api update flickr side that hasn't been added to shotwell and have you reported it if it isn't?
[17:27] <s-fox> Goodbye.
[17:28] <Myrtti> davmor2: the error message isn't helpful enough for me to know which side is the problem
[17:29] <Myrtti> and right now I want to smash something - my photo harddrive unmounted before my imported photos had been written on it and I made shotwell delete the pictures from the memory card in the import process
[17:29]  * AlanBell wonders what a pololbear looks like
[17:29] <Myrtti> perhaps I'll just go get a drink before I launch photorec
[17:30] <bigcalm> I just made a vhost called ipa. That's made my day a little brigher
[17:30] <bigcalm> brighter
[17:31] <jutnux> Evening all.
[17:31] <davmor2> Myrtti: Here have this chill pill, take a deep breath and then start again.  By the way I found a good rpg is excellent for stress release you run around killing things you feel much better honest
[17:32] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[17:33] <Myrtti> davmor2: usually imagining smashing things helps too.
[17:34] <Myrtti> or I could put on the soundtrack song for computer problems
[17:34] <kirrus> bigcalm: why.. IsoPropanolAlcohol? :/
[17:34] <bigcalm> Myrtti: http://www.puffgames.com/bubblewrap/
[17:34] <bigcalm> kirrus: IPA to me means Indian Pale Ale
[17:35] <kirrus> ahh.. spent too much time in a sound-engineering lab, using it to clean electronics ;)
[17:35] <kirrus> Your version sounds much nicer
[17:35] <bigcalm> kirrus: you were close with the alcohol ;)
[17:35] <kirrus> Aye, just a sort you never wanted to drink ;)
[17:49] <bigcalm> I have PHP running on a windows hosted website. Pleased that I've got this far. Not pleased that it takes this much effort. Took half a day just to install windows :(
[17:50] <jutnux> Wamp \o/
[17:52] <bigcalm> jutnux: I have to replicate a client's set up so I can do dev here. Not liking it
[17:52] <bigcalm> Only 11 mins left to the day though \o/
[17:52] <jutnux> Unlucky haha.
[18:04] <Myrtti> davmor2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6685382429
[18:05] <davmor2> Myrtti: nice
[18:19] <cgriff> :(
[18:19] <cgriff> Sorry wrong window ^
[18:37] <AlanBell> "Happy New Year \o/" seems a bit past it now, what should I put in the topic?
[18:39] <awilkins> echo 'Happy New Year' | sed 's/H/Cr/'
[18:39] <Azelphur> Happy 12th of January?
[18:41] <awilkins> "Will Precise be the last, or second to last ever Ubuntu?
[18:42]  * AlanBell feeds awilkins some more happy pills
[18:42] <Azelphur> haha, yay :D
[18:43] <AlanBell> best of a weak set of suggestions :)
[18:43] <Azelphur> lol
[18:43] <awilkins> I cannot emote. But it's because my phone doesn't support it, not because I have flattening of affect.  You mean Team Hannah?
[19:28] <AlanBell> they are well intentioned, but the thing they want the money for is decidedly not :(
[19:28] <gordonjcp> hmm
[19:28] <gordonjcp> is 12.04 going to be less memory-hungry when it's released?
[19:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh really? It's not something I have taken a lot of interest in myself. I know she is now in the US undergoing "treatment". Whatever that is.
[19:29] <jutnux> What is Team Hannah?
[19:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://teamhannah.com/
[19:31] <AlanBell> http://rhysmorgan.co/2011/11/threats-from-the-burzynski-clinic/ http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/05/harnessing_peoples_good_to_pay_for_woo.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Burzynski
[19:31] <gordonjcp> oh, so it's fundraising to send her to the fake doctor with the piss injection thing?
[19:33] <AlanBell> dunno what the content is, but it is a clinical trial that has been running for 25 years. You can charge what you like for a clinical trial, and it doesn't have to be proven to work or not, and as long as it never finishes and publishes any results it can keep on going
[19:40] <jutnux> If this guy truly has the cure for cancer he'd sell it to the US making him billions.
[19:40] <jutnux> ..
[19:40] <jutnux> or release it for free and make money off of the media, if he wasn't a douche
[19:42] <Seeker`> Anyoen got any idea how to make XShmGetImage work with NVidia + VPDAU without disabling the overlay?
[19:45] <Neoti_Laptop> Hi ... does anyone know what chipset/motherboard the virgin media tivo uses as i was just sat looking at the tivo and my xbmc box and thinking it would be cool if the two could be merged together IE putting XBMC on virgin tivo etc ?
[19:47] <Neoti_Laptop> or does anyone have a tivo box there willing to donate to "research".....
[19:48] <directhex> it'll be a mips in tivo won't it?
[19:51] <directhex> broadcom BCM7413
[19:52] <directhex> rebadged TiVo Premiere XL, basically
[19:52] <Neoti_Laptop> i wander if it would be possible to hack ubuntu and xbmc on to it...lol
[19:53] <directhex> short answer: no
[19:53] <directhex> long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[19:54] <ali1234> xbmc needs 3d support
[19:55] <ali1234> i doubt that broadcom chip has it
[19:55] <directhex> the broadcom chip has plenty of 3d support. but nobody does "locked down" like broadcom
[19:55] <directhex> you'll never make it boot your own kernel
[19:55] <ali1234> unneccesary
[20:00] <directhex> broadcom don't publish datasheets. but there are indications that it has opengl es support.
[20:03] <directhex> "Broadcom now supports the OpenGL ES API as its official 3D graphics API. At the present time, the 3D core exists in the BCM7038 and BCM7400 devices. In the future, the 3D core may be included in a variety of Broadcom set-top devices." - the 7400 and 7413 have the same 3d core.
[20:06] <jacobw> evening
[20:06] <jutnux> Switched to Git from Mercurial
[20:07] <jutnux> And I love it
[20:07] <Neoti_Laptop> excellent... now how can i hack linux and xbmc on to the tivo ... humm ... gonna work on that ...
[20:08] <Neoti_Laptop> would be intresting ...
[20:13] <jacobw> jutnux: what's better about it?
[20:13] <jutnux> It just seems to flow much easier
[20:22] <directhex> hg is the only "major" one i've never used
[20:22] <directhex> i used darcs when the banshee magnatune plugin was kept in darcs
[20:23] <directhex> jutnux: that's quite an indictment, because git is carefully assembled to be unintuitive and backwards
[20:24] <jutnux> Well I like it haha and the GitHub web-interface is also nice.
[20:35] <directhex> github has some nice features beyond basic git
[20:35] <directhex> forking workflow is delightful
[20:42] <Azelphur> directhex: the only thing that worries me about github is that it's not open source / your putting all your eggs in one basket :P
[20:42] <directhex> indeed
[20:44] <BigRedS> Only if you only put your code on github
[20:45] <directhex> you can push to a non-github repo of course
[20:45] <BigRedS> well, yeah, which is what you'd do if you didn't want all your eggs in one basket
[20:54] <bigcalm> What's the recommended svn client for windows? Preferably with a CLI
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> svn?
[20:55]  * bigcalm gives it a go
[20:56] <bigcalm> There isn't just one
[20:56] <bigcalm> http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html#windows
[20:57] <SuperEngineer> hi folks, here's a heads-up for late upgraders from Linux Today: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-01-12-006-39-NW-KN
[20:58] <BigRedS> In case anyone's interested, it's about kernel vulns in 8.04
[20:59] <SuperEngineer> BigRedS: [sorry - I meant to add that bit but you beat me]  ;
[20:59] <BigRedS> haha
[21:00] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[21:00] <BigRedS> It just took so long to load for me, I thought I'd help anyone not interested avoid the wait :)
[21:00] <AlanBell> right, meeting in a sec
[21:01] <bigcalm> :O
[21:01] <bigcalm> How did I forget and why am I here?
[21:01] <SuperEngineer> what! surely not [almost] ontime ;D
[21:04] <popey> Evening all
[21:04] <bigcalm> Howdy doodie
[21:04]  * AlanBell waves in the direction of #ubuntu-uk-meeting for the meeting that will start about nowish
[21:05] <popey> oooh
[22:03] <bigcalm> Sheesh
[22:03] <bigcalm> Does SQL Server really need to be a 4gb ISO?
[22:07] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: apt-get install postgresql
[22:07] <MartijnVdS> -9.1
[22:08]  * bigcalm kippers MartijnVdS
[22:12] <MartijnVdS> hmm kippers
[22:19] <directhex> bigcalm: yes!
[22:19] <bigcalm> directhex: why?
[22:19] <directhex> bigcalm: to fit all the awesomesauce!
[22:20] <bigcalm> I should have downloaded this during work hours and enjoyed 3.7mb/s. Instead I'm doing it during peak consumer hours and getting 1.8mb/s :(
[22:21] <directhex> 3.7M is your *work* speed? poor bigcalm
[22:22] <bigcalm> directhex: considering that I work from home
[22:22] <bigcalm> :)
[22:22] <directhex> i still declare it to be "teh slows"
[22:22] <bigcalm> Will be happy once VM double our speeds in the next 18 months
[22:23] <awilkins> I find 30MB quite pleasing, more than adequate.
[22:23] <awilkins> I do wonder what to do with 60Mbit/s
[22:23] <jutnux> I have 5mb
[22:23] <directhex> "The BT Group has today released its latest financial results to 31st March 2011 (Q1), which reveal that the operator plans to double the speed of its superfast FTTC broadband service to 80Mbps in 2012 and should reach 100Mbps in the future. "
[22:23] <directhex> sorted
[22:23] <jutnux> My sister saw Microshaft at BETT
[22:24] <bigcalm> No need to twist the company name like that :)
[22:24] <popey> jutnux: i think you mean Microsoft
[22:24] <bigcalm> Unless that was really the company name
[22:24] <jutnux> Yes, that was probably extremely immature of me.
[22:24]  * jutnux apologises
[22:24] <popey> ☺
[22:24] <bigcalm> :)
[22:24]  * popey stabs his mac
[22:24]  * AlanBell only has 8MBps download at the moment :(
[22:24] <directhex> here's the thing
[22:25]  * popey shakes fist at directhex
[22:25] <directhex> "micro$haft" or similar is immature
[22:25] <directhex> what you want is for "microsoft" to be the dirty word
[22:25] <directhex> as in "ew, someone left a microsoft in the loo"
[22:25] <bigcalm> popey: who's fault is it you have a mac? ;)
[22:25] <bigcalm> directhex: hah
[22:25] <jutnux> popey: How long did OSX last on the Macbook?
[22:26] <directhex> or, less facetiously, criticize them when they deserve criticism, praise them when they deserve praise. it's okay, a mix is allowed
[22:26] <popey> jutnux: some time
[22:26] <jutnux> My sister did get some free stuff off of them.
[22:26] <awilkins> Visual Studio?
[22:26]  * jutnux laughed
[22:27] <jutnux> I don't actually know
[22:27] <jutnux> but she met the creator of Brain Pop
[22:27] <bigcalm> Brian? popey?
[22:27] <awilkins> Not so implausible, I've been to MS events where they handed disks out like frisbees
[22:27] <bigcalm> Oh, Brain
[22:28] <directhex> i got a free mouse out of MS
[22:28] <jutnux> How many disks did Canonical take to CES?
[22:28] <bigcalm> New SSD might be here tomorrow. Excited!
[22:28] <directhex> i use it for conference presentations
[22:28] <jutnux> They're all gone already apparently.
[22:32] <jutnux> http://i.imgur.com/VXKXe.jpg :'(
[22:32] <popey> tl;dr
[22:33] <awilkins> gordonjcp, Evolution isn't any great shakes either
[22:35] <jutnux> popey: It's amazing. There's also another one about this 83 year old man and his wife who play Call of Duty and follow Reddit. True story.
[22:36] <jutnux> Anyways, now off. Have a good evening (or what's left of it).
[22:47] <gordonjcp> awilkins: yeah
[22:47] <gordonjcp> awilkins: thunderbird is *incredibly* annoying though
[22:47] <awilkins> Outlook is awesome fun though
[22:48] <gordonjcp> "HEY, I USE TABS NOW BECAUSE TABS ARE MORE AWESOMER! LOOK, LET ME OPEN EVERYTHING YOU'VE SELECTED IN A TAB!"
[22:48] <gordonjcp> no, bugger off
[22:48] <jacobw> ha, open thread in tabs
[22:48] <jacobw> that's fun
[22:48] <gordonjcp> yah
[22:49] <gordonjcp> and watch it *explode*
[22:49] <gordonjcp> I really hope 12.04 ends up a bit lighter on memory
[22:49] <gordonjcp> if not, I'll just have to ditch Ubuntu again, just as I was getting into it
[22:49] <jacobw> unity-2d
[22:49] <gordonjcp> if I need 2GB just to run the desktop with nothing open I may as well learn how to use Windows
[22:50]  * jacobw doesn't find ubuntu to particulary RAM intensive
[22:50] <gordonjcp> jacobw: this *is* unity-2d
[22:50] <gordonjcp> jacobw: it's obviously only intended for fairly high-spec machines
[22:50] <gordonjcp> this PC hasn't really got nearly a high enough spec
[23:04] <jacobw> does anyone know how ecryptfs handles rewrapping the passphrase when a user passwd's ?
[23:23] <bigcalm> My goodness, how long is sql server going to take to install?!
[23:24] <hamitron> bigcalm, "a few mins longer"
[23:24] <hamitron> ;)
[23:24] <bigcalm> I'd like to go to bed sometime tonight
[23:24] <bigcalm> Preferably with the computer shut down
[23:25] <hamitron> I'm sure we all feel let down by your lack of late night dedication :D
[23:26] <zleap> i am here,  but reading the reapberry pi forums,  and waiting for my password to arrive via e-mail :)
[23:26] <hamitron> so many nice toys out
[23:27] <hamitron> :/
[23:34] <gordonjcp> I tried the unity checkbox but I couldn't get any of it to work
[23:35] <gordonjcp> it was asking me to click on the "panel" then select the file menu
[23:35] <gordonjcp> I don't really understand what it's asking me for
[23:36] <zleap> yeah
[23:37] <zleap> they are debating on how and what to teach in terms of programming language


[16:46] <RickZilla> Hi gang, on this page http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted I see the line "Besides the standard software available on the Edubuntu CD, you will also find a world of software in the Edubuntu Universe, an on-line repository containing more than 10GB of community contributed software." But I don't see a link to it anywhere.  Can somebody point me in the right direction?
[16:50] <ogra> click on add/remove software in your menu :)
[16:50] <RickZilla> But surely that doesn't include all of the "10G of community contributed software", does it?
[16:53] <ogra> look at the top, you have a pulldown menu there .... beyond that you can use System->administration->Synaptic package manager to get the rest that not registered in add/remove
[17:16] <RickZilla> ogra:  Thanks, I'll check that out...sounds like Synaptic goes out on the web and finds additional software for me
[17:17] <ogra> add/remove does as well
[17:18] <ogra> they are both similar apps but add/remove only shows everything that has a menu entry
[22:38] <jc2it> I am looking for information on how LDM is configured
[22:40] <ogra> through lts.conf
[22:43] <jc2it> Where is the documentaion located?
[22:43] <jc2it> for lts.conf
[22:45] <ogra> in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client-core/examples
[22:51] <jc2it> what does SCREEN_01=ldm do in conjunction with SCREEN_02=shell?
[22:52] <ogra> SCREEN_01 is always ignored, its used by upstart as console
[22:52] <ogra> SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm would be better
[22:53] <ogra> that means there is an open login shell on tty2 and ldm on tty7 running
[22:53] <ogra> (thats ltsp config, not ldm specific)
[22:53] <jc2it> Is SCREEN_07 set that way as default?
[22:54] <ogra> SCREEN_XX isnt set by default, but ldm usually runs on tty7, yes
[22:54] <jc2it> How do I know if LDM is running?
[22:54] <ogra> the SCREEN variables are used to override these defaults
[22:54] <ogra> if ldm is running you have a graphical login screen
[22:54] <jc2it> How do i determine the Screen that loads as default?
[22:54] <ogra> thats all ldm does
[22:55] <jc2it> so that SCREEN_07=ldm is the first screen the user sees
[22:55] <ogra> ldm start on tty7 be default, thats how its implemented
[22:55] <jc2it> ok
[22:55] <ogra> right, ldm on tty7
[23:01] <jc2it> great that is what I wanted to see. Now the thin client boots to an LDM screen on tty7 and by using Ctrl+Alt+F2 I can get a LTSP login to check/troubleshoot local stuff. Alos the PS -ale command verifies LDM is working.
[23:03] <ogra> good
[23:03] <jc2it> So why Can't I change the Screensaver in Ubuntu + LTSP 5? When I attempt it the Thin Client logs out the user and returns to a login screen
[23:04] <ogra> sounds like a bug
[23:04] <jc2it> Also I cannot change the Screen Effects
[23:05] <ogra> thats a matter of the grphics card ... usual thin clients dont have the HW to support 3D effects
[23:05] <jc2it> in System --> Preferences --> Appearence --> Visual effects
[23:05] <jc2it> hmmm How do i find out
[23:07] <jc2it> Do these effects then run on the thin client HW instead of the Server HW
[23:07] <ogra> indeed
[23:07] <ogra> they make use of the GL engine of your graphics card
[23:07] <jc2it> How do I know if something ( OpenOffice, LDM) is running on the Thin Client or the Server?
[23:08] <ogra> so the card needs to be set up to support 3D (out of the box only intel cards do that, since intel is the only company providing free 3D capable drivers)
[23:08] <ogra> all apps run on the server
[23:08] <ogra> only ldm runs on the client
[23:09] <jc2it> So the visual effects because they run through LDM are ran on the client?
[23:09] <ogra> they run through X
[23:09] <jc2it> which is on the client
[23:10] <ogra> right, the driver that drives the hardware sits on the client
[23:10] <ogra> it gets the drawing commands via network from the server
[23:11] <ogra> but to actually draw stuff the driver is used to drive the hardware
[23:11] <ogra> so that part runs locally on the client ... while the app generating the commands runs on the server
[23:13] <jc2it> Ok. So in my old server- thin client setup. I was running RH EL4 on the server. It used XDMCP to communicate between Thin Client and Server. the Thin clients booted into NeoLinux (Neoware's distro) and used GDM on the server to implement XDMCP.  I am pretty sure I was able to run like Open GL Screensavers and such on the Thin clients
[23:13] <ogra> well, the crasher is surely a bug
[23:13] <ogra> the effects require a card and driver that supports the composite extension
[23:13] <jc2it> Where does LTSP generate  logs
[23:14] <ogra> for X it uses /var/log/Xorg.6.log
[23:14] <ogra> and for ldm the ldm.log in the same folder
[23:14] <ogra> beyond that it forwards to the servers syslog
[23:14] <jc2it> on the server or client
[23:15] <ogra> the first two on the client, the latter on the server
[23:50] <jc2it> so to enable effects I need to find out if my card supports the composite extension and I need a driver that allows this to work. If i was able to successfully determine both then where would I change the driver that loads. I am assuming it would be in the image area for LTSP but is this located in the chroot environment somewhere? under /opt/ltsp/i386/?????


[01:57] <lamont> kylem: thanks, btw.  -12.38 built
[01:57] <lamont> (and is blocked by NEW for hppa, but that's OK)
[04:53] <lamont> does LRM live in git?
[04:53] <rtg> lamont: nope.
[04:53] <lamont> ah, ok
[04:53] <lamont> so the archive is the SCM for that?
[04:54] <rtg> yes
[04:54] <lamont> ok
[04:54] <lamont> (hppa)
[04:54] <lamont> 144MB tarball? wow
[04:54] <lamont> competing with OO.o, I see
[04:55] <rtg> It full of those binary blobs.
[04:55] <lamont> yeah
[04:55] <lamont> they'd be much smaller if we compressed them with AAC, you know. :-D
[04:55] <rtg> It would be my preference as well, but BenC disagreed.
[04:56] <lamont> something to do with wanting to be able to uncompress them later, I suppose.
[04:56] <rtg> I think LRM should be under git control.
[04:56] <lamont> booring.
[04:57] <BenC> we don't recompress them because we leave them as they came from upstream
[04:57] <lamont> BenC: I was being silly and suggesting lossy compression...
[04:57] <BenC> lamont: if you want lossy, just use "rm -f *" :)
[04:58] <lamont> fwiw, at a minimum, I need to change the hppa build-dep on gcc-3.4 to 4.1, and then I'll see what more it needs to compile successfully
[04:58] <rtg> I don't care about compression so much. I just think that all of the kernel packages ought to be managed in a standard way.
[04:58] <lamont> BenC: it would be nice to drop lrm into git..
[04:58] <lamont> largish, but good.
[04:58] <BenC> we had it in git, but it was a real pita
[04:58] <BenC> didn't help us at all
[04:58] <lamont> ah, ok.
[04:58] <lamont> I can see that with the size and the blobitude
[04:59] <BenC> most of our lrm uploads are just ABI bumps, so git just adds too much overhead
[04:59] <lamont> wfm
[05:00] <lamont> lum and lbm both built, as did the kernel, so I think lrm is the only part left that hppa is lacking
[05:00] <lamont> d-i even built
[05:00] <lamont> well, will have in LP once I finish my current pulse and give it back in LP :-)
[05:10] <lamont> BenC: if we packaged lrm as .orig + .diff.gz, that'd help with uploads at least somewhat...
[05:11] <lamont> which is what we did/
[05:11] <lamont> never mind... maybe I should go to bed
[05:32] <lamont> hrm... if hppa ever supports any modules that require compiling things, we're going to have to deal with the multiple-compiler issue in debian/rules.
[05:32] <lamont> in the meantime, it's ok
[05:34] <lamont> BenC: any reason for me to not upload this fix now?
[05:35] <lamont> debian/control* (drop b-d: gcc-3.4) and debian/rules (don't use gcc-3.4)
[05:36] <lamont> W: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 source: maintainer-script-lacks-debhelper-token debian/linux-restricted-modules-generic.postinst
[05:36] <lamont> neato
[05:25] <BenC> zul: ping
[05:43] <zul> BenC: you are lucky I just sat down
[05:44] <BenC> zul: The xen configs don't appear to be based on our stock generic config...any reason for that?
[05:45] <BenC> e.g. CONFIG_FW_LOADER=m instead of our CONFIG_FW_LOADER=y
[05:45] <zul> BenC: correct they are based on suse's xen kernels I could go through them today
[05:46] <BenC> zul: I was thinking the best bet would be "cat debian/config/i386/config{,.generic} > .config" and make oldconfig to get the xen options
[05:46] <BenC> otherwise we risk different support in each kernel
[05:46] <BenC> and the same for amd64
[05:46] <zul> sure not a problem ill have to recompile then to make sure they still work though
[05:47] <BenC> ok, I'd appreciate it
[05:47] <zul> nop
[06:43] <xhaker> BenC, mjg59 : could you please look into this upstream bug http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8171
[06:43] <ubotu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 8171 in ACPICA-Core "acpi_serialize locks system during boot" [Blocking,Assigned]
[06:43] <xhaker> there is a patch there now! :)
[06:44] <BenC> xhaker: I think we have that patch integrated in the latest kernel upload
[06:45] <BenC> maybe not, I'll check though
[06:45] <BenC> xhaker: is there a launchpad bug for this and confirmed it affects 2.6.22?
[06:45] <xhaker> BenC, 1 sec
[06:46] <xhaker> It's related to this one
[06:46] <xhaker> https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/116185
[06:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116185 in linux-source-2.6.22 "battery state not reported correctly" [High,Confirmed]
[06:46] <mjg59> Yes, that patch looks reasonable
[06:46] <xhaker> and this one upstream
[06:46] <xhaker> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8810
[06:47] <ubotu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 8810 in ACPICA-Core "Laptop needs acpi_serialize to works - HP Pavillion dv8230us" [Normal,Reopened]
[06:48] <mjg59> xhaker: So, just to clarify - the first patch just stops acpi_serialize from locking the system?
[06:48] <xhaker> mjg59, yes.
[06:49] <mjg59> Right. That should certainly go in.
[06:49] <xhaker> mjg59, the first bug is about acpi_serialized not working right
[06:49] <xhaker> mjg59, but the second upstream bug report might be a good read along the end
[06:50] <mjg59> xhaker: Yes. It's still lacking a fix.
[06:50] <xhaker> upstream is considering marking _BST always serialized
[06:50] <mjg59> Yes
[06:50] <xhaker> mjg59, you seem to have helped with a recent commit too, let me search it
[06:51] <xhaker> 426ea6c8aadc921e499f490bb457086945b42a0d : Ubuntu: Allocate acpi_devices structure rather than leaving it on the stack.
[06:52] <mjg59> That fixes a bug that I introduced myself
[06:52] <xhaker> mjg59, ohh, i was under the impression it was 8171 related
[06:52] <mjg59> No
[09:48] <nixternal> toshiba satellite l35 w/ gutsy: kernel 2.6.20* works great, 2.6.22* does not work at all. when it gets to the point where it starts X, it just turns the display off and never comes up...any ideas?
[09:49] <mjg59> So if you run gutsy with the feisty kernel, it works?
[09:49] <nixternal> ya
[09:49] <nixternal> thank god you answered :)  I am at a LUG right now and this laptop just will not work at all with the 2.6.22 kernels
[09:49] <mjg59> Can you try blacklisting the video module and see if that makes any difference?
[09:49] <nixternal> I can try that
[09:51] <nixternal> so in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist, I should add ati since that is what it is loading?
[09:51] <mjg59> No
[09:51] <mjg59> video
[09:51] <nixternal> derr
[09:53] <nixternal> no go
[09:53] <mjg59> Which graphics drivers are you using?
[09:53] <nixternal> ati
[09:53] <mjg59> RIght
[09:54] <mjg59> Try blacklisting radeon, then
[09:54] <nixternal> k
[09:56] <nixternal> still not working...this thing is a pain
[09:57] <mjg59> Are you able to ssh into the machine?
[09:57] <nixternal> it is sitting right next to me, I have physical access to it
[09:57] <mjg59> And the console still works after the failure?
[09:58] <nixternal> I can restart it in single-user mode
[09:58] <mjg59> No, that's not what I asked
[09:58] <nixternal> I can't access anything after the failure
[09:58] <nixternal> I have to push the power button and hard power down
[09:58] <mjg59> Does caps lock still work?
[09:58] <nixternal> it is working at the terminal right now yes
[09:59] <mjg59> After X has failed?
[09:59] <nixternal> after x has failed, the only thing that seems to work is the power button...you can't tell if the caps lock is working or not as there is no indicator for it
[10:00] <mjg59> Ok. So, can you ssh into the machine?
[10:00] <IntuitiveNipple> nixternal: When X fails, can you so Ctrl+Alt+SysRq+K ?
[10:00] <nixternal> hrmm, I need to install the server and give it a shot
[10:00] <IntuitiveNipple> s/so/do/
[10:00] <mjg59> IntuitiveNipple: Please don't confuse things
[10:00] <nixternal> no doubt
[10:00] <nixternal> :)
[10:00] <nixternal> let me install ssh server really quick
[10:01] <mjg59> Thanks
[10:06] <nixternal> alrighty, going to let it boot up and crash, then try and ssh into it
[10:09] <nixternal> mjg59: I can log in via ssh just fine
[10:10] <mjg59> nixternal: When it's frozen?
[10:11] <nixternal> yup
[10:11] <nixternal> so obviously it isn't frozen, just no video
[10:11] <mjg59> Ok. Can you grab /var/log/Xorg.0.log and put it somewhere?
[10:11] <nixternal> yup
[10:11] <mjg59> Right, let me know when you've done that
[10:12] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/Xorg.0.log
[10:13] <mjg59> Ok, the radeon driver is still getting loaded
[10:13] <mjg59> Try just deleting /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/char/drm/radeon.ko
[10:16] <nixternal> that is my fault, I remove the blacklist before I rebooted
[10:16] <mjg59> No, I suspect the server is triggering the load itself
[10:19] <nixternal> hey, refresh that log, I just uploaded an updated, while I wait to get root access tot he laptop to delete the module
[10:19] <nixternal> one sec
[10:19] <mjg59> It's the same
[10:20] <nixternal> OK, moved that file out of there, give it a reboot?
[10:20] <mjg59> Yes
[10:20] <nixternal> k
[10:22] <nixternal> holy smokes
[10:22] <nixternal> it booted up
[10:22] <mjg59> Right. Please file a bug against xserver-xorg-video-ati and linux-source-2.6.22
[10:22] <mjg59> There's a bug in either the dri or drm implementation there
[10:23] <nixternal> roger that, I will work on that
[10:23] <mjg59> Include the Xorg.0.log
[10:23] <nixternal> the one on my server right now, or the one that is booted up now?
[10:24] <mjg59> Both would be good
[10:24] <nixternal> before and after...roger that