[00:03] <hatch>  figured as much but haven't looked yet
[00:08] <huwshimi> hatch: https://codereview.appspot.com/12494043/ if you want to review
[00:10] <hatch> done
[00:11] <huwshimi> hatch: Thanks!
[00:13] <hatch> no probs
[00:14] <hatch> huwshimi: being a css guy I figured you might be interested in my latest blog post http://fromanegg.com/post/57464448123/css-selectors-the-next-level
[00:14] <hatch> lemme know what you think (or if I have any errors ;) )
[00:16] <huwshimi> hatch: Nice.
[00:17] <huwshimi> hatch: I think the second code example should be ".dog::first-letter"
[00:18] <hatch> checking
[00:18] <hatch> yup
[00:18] <hatch> :) thanks
[00:18] <huwshimi> :)
[00:18] <huwshimi> Other than that it's a handy guide
[00:19] <hatch> thanks, glad you like it :)
[11:26] <antdillon> gary_poster, Morning just landed a branch with updated zoom slider styles: lp:~ya-bo-ng/juju-gui/zoom-slider-update
[11:30] <rick_h> antdillon: do you need help getting this into review and such then?
[11:42] <antdillon> rick_h, Not sure Gary wanted me sending stuff for review
[11:42] <antdillon> rick_h, But I just do  lbox propose -cr right?
[11:48] <rick_h> ant-lunch:  https://codereview.appspot.com/12523043
[11:49] <rick_h> ant-lunch: added a card to the board. Will get it reviewed and such.
[11:55] <rick_h> ant-lunch: comment/question on the images in the code review for you https://codereview.appspot.com/12523043/
[12:33] <antdillon> rick_h, Will sprite them now
[12:33] <rick_h> antdillon: thanks
[13:08] <antdillon> rick_h, Done, want me to do a mp?
[13:08] <rick_h> antdillon: do just push an update to your branch and I'll pull it down and resync it with the code review in progress
[13:09] <antdillon> rick_h, Thanks
[13:10] <rick_h> orangesquad, is there a way to check for errors on a charm? https://jujucharms.com/sidebar/~pavel-pachkovskij/precise/rack-4/ shows no readme but there is one in the source.
[13:10] <abentley> rick_h: You can look at the ingest logs.
[13:27] <abentley> orangesqad, bac or benji: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/restore-questions/+merge/178753 ?
[13:27] <bac> abentley: sure
[13:27] <benji> abentley: I'll take a look.
[13:27] <benji> or not if bac is dying to do it (abently: do you need one or two reviews?)
[13:28] <abentley> bac: Thanks.  benji, I don't need two reviews.
[13:28] <abentley> benji: But thanks anyway.
[13:28]  * benji and bac thumb wrestle; bac wins.
[13:28] <bac> \o/
[13:29]  * bac hops up and down, rocky style
[13:29] <bac> abentley, benji: how did gary's demo go yesterday?
[13:30] <abentley> bac: The server was down, but he said it went well anyway.
[13:30] <benji> non-esistent; the server was down so he did the "demo" with hand waves
[13:30] <bac> darn
[13:33] <rick_h> antdillon: sorry, think we had a miscommunication there
[13:33] <rick_h> antdillon: any png in the assets/images directory is turned into a sprite automatically. we can use that with the css "sprite filename".
[13:34] <rick_h> antdillon: if you look around you can see it used in a bunch of places
[13:34] <rick_h> antdillon: so I was more just looking for the css styles to be onthe divs you used vs the image links themselves.
[13:34] <antdillon> rick_h, Ah ok, on it
[13:34] <rick_h> antdillon: sorry, didn't mean to make you sprite up the images you added on their own.
[13:34] <antdillon> rick_h, I've put the images as backgrounds of the divs instead of images
[13:35] <rick_h> antdillon: it's why we've got that 'non-sprites' directory. For images that don't need ot go into the auto-sprite
[13:35] <rick_h> antdillon: right, and that's what the sprite tooling in place does
[13:37] <bac> abentley: the text in iter_categories() is user-visible i assume.  did you grab that from somewhere else or make it up?  i ask because there are some grammar issues but i don' t want to spend a lot of time on them if they are not user visible nor under our control.
[13:37] <abentley> bac: I grabbed it from the original migration that produced the questions.  It is user-visible.
[13:39] <abentley> bac: The original: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-jitsu/charmworld/trunk/view/243/migrations/versions/001_load_qa_questions.py
[13:40] <bac> abentley: ok, some just look clunky but perhaps read correctly in context.
[13:40] <bac> abentley: and 'user' is only members of ~charmers, right?
[13:41] <bac> as in 'user visible'
[13:41] <abentley> bac: The user is anyone who looks at the QA ratings.
[13:41] <bac> oh, ok
[13:44] <abentley> bac: There are definitely grammar problems.  Some questions refer to the subject as singular "passes tests...", while others refer to it as plural "Contain a suite..."
[13:44] <bac> abentley: done
[13:44] <bac> abentley: if you could make a pass at those it would be nice.
[13:45] <antdillon> rick_h, Ok to keep the button and hover images together? Or should I separate them all and change the background image
[13:45] <rick_h> antdillon: no, split them up back like they were. Just don't link directly to them. Use the sprite css classes to load them into the backgroud of your divs
[13:45] <antdillon> rick_h, Got ya
[13:46] <abentley> bac: The content of those questions is the ~charmers' choice AIUI.  We can certainly point out the issues.
[13:47] <rick_h> antdillon: run  `bzr grep "sprite "` to get an idea of uses there
[13:49] <antdillon> rick_h, Cheers
[13:54] <hatch> morning
[14:07] <hatch> frankban: looks like you fixed CI :)
[14:07] <hatch> yay!
[14:07] <frankban> guihelp: we ignored that poor jenkins guy for so long... but (for) now he's back to sanity!
[14:07] <hatch> thanks for doing that :)
[14:07] <bac> yay, frankban
[14:07] <frankban> :-)
[14:08] <teknico> frankban: he's such a jenk, you know ;-)
[14:08] <gary_poster> yay, frankban, thanks!
[14:09] <gary_poster> jujugui, fwiw, I'm going to work on Huw's proposed branch for a break. :-)
[14:09] <hatch> gary_poster: this one https://codereview.appspot.com/12506044/ ?
[14:09] <gary_poster> hatch yeah
[14:09] <hatch> ok I'm also in the process of reviewing
[14:09] <bac> teknico: doing your 2nd review
[14:10] <gary_poster> hatch oh ok.  you do it then.  did you already fix the destroy service duplication and the expose issues?
[14:10] <gary_poster> hatch, if not I'll do it :-)
[14:10] <hatch> negative
[14:10] <teknico> bac: thanks, you may want to hold off qa though, I'll fix the problem frankban pointed out first
[14:10] <bac> ok
[14:11] <hatch> gary_poster: so far the main issue I've found is that he moves the viewlet-manager-footer into the service-configuration.partial
[14:11] <gary_poster> hatch, that's per request
[14:11] <hatch> which isn't really semantically correct
[14:11] <gary_poster> hatch oh
[14:11] <hatch> I know the button should move...just that we should keep the footer class in the wrapper :)
[14:12] <rick_h> abentley: got a sec to help me debug what's up with this charm please?
[14:12] <gary_poster> got it.  hatch, may I work on the expose issues and the destroy issue duplication?    Is it the one you mentioned earlier?
[14:12] <gary_poster> :-) thanks
[14:13] <hatch> how was the flight?
[14:13] <gary_poster> very long hatch, three legs. :-/
[14:13] <gary_poster> but fine otherwise
[14:13] <hatch> I suppose that's the best you can hope for :)
[14:13] <rick_h> abentley: yea, I finally setup my ssh to get into staging. On staging I'm seeing http://paste.mitechie.com/show/994/ in the logs a ton in app.log
[14:14] <rick_h> abentley: but having a hard time seeing where this error comes from. The log line says "update_charm" but update_charm doesn't do a warning, and the error format has "error" in the name so it's from elsewhere and trying to chase it.
[14:14] <abentley> rick_h: The exception is being raised by Bazaar.
[14:14] <rick_h> abentley: greeping for part of that message comes up with no results so guessing it's coming out of something else?
[14:18] <abentley> rick_h: It looks like the user uncommitted that revision, because I can't see it on the Launchpad branch.
[14:18] <rick_h> abentley: ah, ok. /me didn't realize you could uncommit a revision
[14:19] <rick_h> abentley: what's the way I can suggest he moves forward? Can he get back the uncommitted revision and move forward from there?
[14:21] <abentley> rick_h: So, the uncommitted revision is actually on Launchpad, but because it's not part of the current history, it's not being fetched.  He's just committed a new revision, so we should stop caring about the old one soon if we haven't already.
[14:21] <rick_h> abentley: yea, I thought maybe he was hitting the proof error of no revision file so he pushed an updated version with a revision file and we waited for ingest to pick it up
[14:22] <abentley> rick_h: The new revision is from 48 minutes ago.  Do you have any errors more recently than 30 minutes ago?
[14:22] <rick_h> abentley: m.j.c. pulled the revision enough that the changelog is updated, but the config/readme and other files seem stuck pre this issue http://manage.jujucharms.com/~pavel-pachkovskij/precise/rack
[14:23] <rick_h> abentley: yes, latest is from 3min ago
[14:23] <rick_h> abentley: looks like this error is hit every ingest cycle
[14:23] <abentley> rick_h: m.j.c is on revno 5.
[14:23] <rick_h> log files is spammed to death
[14:24] <rick_h> abentley: well app.log
[14:24] <abentley> rick_h: Okay, so I guess the charm store is slow.
[14:24] <rick_h> abentley: yea, that's the latest rev in bzr. he went from r4 to r5 today as part of working this out
[14:24] <teknico> bac: bug fixed, qa may proceed, thanks again :-)
[14:25] <antdillon> rick_h, Do you need to use js to add the hovered class to display the hovered image?
[14:25] <rick_h> antdillon: I'd assume we could use a :hover css selector?
[14:25] <rick_h> antdillon: oh wait, so there's a hover on the sprite image?
[14:26] <rick_h> antdillon: if so then yes, we'd need to change the css class on mouse in/out
[14:26] <antdillon> rick_h, I think I will because changing the background pos isnt working
[14:26] <abentley> rick_h: So, the charm store still is using<EMAIL_ADDRESS> Once it updates, we'll update: https://store.juju.ubuntu.com/charm-info?charms=cs:~pavel-pachkovskij/precise/rack-4
[14:27] <rick_h> abentley: ok, will tell him to hold on and keep an eye on it. Thanks for the help
[14:27] <rick_h> abentley: and I'll check with him about the uncommit usage to verify that's what caused it to become a mess
[14:27] <abentley> rick_h: Technically, that URL should be https://store.juju.ubuntu.com/charm-info?charms=cs:~pavel-pachkovskij/precise/rack so it tracks head.
[14:28] <rick_h> abentley: ok
[14:28] <antdillon> rick_h, Unless I can plus or minus from current bk pos :)
[14:28] <rick_h> antdillon: huh? I'm not following.
[14:28] <rick_h> antdillon: what are we hovering?
[14:30] <antdillon> rick_h, So the sprite system is putting the sprites in the middle sprite sheet so I can't use hover to move the bk to the corrent hover pos. I'll add classes with js
[14:30] <antdillon> rick_h, Hovering the plus and minus buttons on the zoom
[14:31] <rick_h> antdillon: ok, right. We'd have to use js to change the css class to the hover image title
[14:31] <rick_h> antdillon: it's a good idea anyway to avoid flicker while the hover image is loaded on the first runs
[14:37] <hatch> gary_poster: there is one other issue in https://codereview.appspot.com/12506044/ that you could also fix ;) The inspector height is always the full allowable height regardless of the content
[14:37] <gary_poster> ack hatch, thanks, will discuss with luca et al. Wondering about interaction with charm panel.
[14:38] <rick_h> gary_poster: I *thought* we set both the height of the left breakout along with the inspector height in the 'recalculateHeight' method
[14:38] <rick_h> gary_poster: so they should be kept in sync
[14:38]  * rick_h reads link to catch up
[14:39] <gary_poster> rick_h, right.  the question is whether the desire to have a nice full charm side panel overrides the desire to have a short charm panel when needed.
[14:39] <hatch> gary_poster: ahh right I forgot about that change
[14:48] <hatch> frankban: teknico do either of you live here? https://plus.google.com/u/0/103804991882843552936/posts/5SANwPcSYrG :D
[14:52] <hatch> gary_poster: how do we respond to the jujugui documentation doc?
[14:54] <frankban> hatch: no we don't. that's near Naples, there are beautiful places in that area.
[14:54] <hatch> yeah - I would imagine expensive to live there too?
[14:56] <bcsaller> anyone have a few minutes to help me diagnose some test failures, it looks like I have a crossed wire. lp:~bcsaller/juju-gui/conflict-ux/
[14:56] <hatch> bcsaller: you bet
[14:56] <frankban> hatch: well, I guess buying an house there is more expensive than the average in Itay, and the average here is ... expensive.
[14:56] <bcsaller> thank you, this thing is driving me crazy, hopefully shallow with another set of eyes
[14:57] <hatch> bcsaller: it's because you're up to early
[14:57] <hatch> you should sleep in for another hour
[14:57] <hatch> :)
[14:57] <bcsaller> oh, this is from yesterday too though
[14:57] <hatch> frankban: haha yeah? what's the avg per square foot?
[14:58] <gary_poster> hatch, jujugui documentation doc: could comment on it?
[14:58] <hatch> gary_poster: ok can do - I just wasn't sure if there was a discussion thread somewhere or not
[14:58] <frankban> hatch: you are asking too many unit conversions here ;-)
[14:59] <hatch> frankban: oh right...sorry per sq/m :)
[14:59] <gary_poster> hatch, nope.  some verbal discussions here, but nick is out this week
[14:59] <hatch> ahh
[15:00] <hatch> bcsaller: first issue.... :8084/test/test_conflict_ux.js 404 (Not Found)
[15:00] <hatch> :)
[15:00] <bcsaller> hatch: added, sorry and pushed
[15:00] <hatch> :D
[15:00] <bcsaller> those tests are not the one with the issue though
[15:01] <bcsaller> wait till you see this one... :-/
[15:01] <hatch> waiting.........
[15:01]  * hatch needs faster computer
[15:01]  * hatch starts indigogo campaign for new MBP
[15:01] <bcsaller> http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8084/test/index.html?grep=Inspector%20Constraints is the short cut in this case
[15:02] <hatch> 5 failures so far
[15:02] <bcsaller> oh, I only get 4 in that module
[15:02] <hatch> allllmost doneeee
[15:02] <hatch> alllllmmmoooossssttttt
[15:02] <hatch> and done
[15:02] <hatch> 75s
[15:02] <hatch> oh man haha
[15:02] <hatch> it's 50s slower in the console
[15:03] <hatch> er faster
[15:03] <hatch> ok investigating now
[15:04] <hatch> I get the 4 errors you speak of, and an error in Inspector Conflict UX
[15:04] <hatch> should indicate conflict and allow resolution of constraints
[15:04] <hatch> if you were wondering what the other error was
[15:04] <frankban> hatch: http://www.immobiliare.it/Salerno/casa-Positano.html it's in italian but you can easily find the important bits of info, e.g. € 680.000  | 85 m² ;-)
[15:05] <bcsaller> hatch: oh, that last test is new, I'll add a skip, was trying to figure out what happened with the rest
[15:05] <hatch> bcsaller: oh ok cool
[15:05] <hatch> frankban: haha yep that's expensive :D
[15:07] <hatch> bcsaller: your asserts are backwards
[15:07] <hatch> just fyi
[15:07] <bcsaller> hatch: I didn't write those, but I agree
[15:07] <hatch> expected is the second param
[15:07] <hatch> confusing...I know
[15:07] <hatch> ohh
[15:08] <bcsaller> existing tests that now break
[15:08] <bcsaller> but in such a strange way
[15:08] <hatch> yeah I see that
[15:08] <bcsaller> subscribers seem to be getting crossed
[15:08] <hatch> ok grabbing my coffee then I'll dig in deeper
[15:08] <bcsaller> oh me too, me too
[15:08] <rick_h> bcsaller: so I got failures on that section when I had left over dom elements from an earlier test
[15:09] <rick_h> bcsaller: when I did proper html cleanup it went away
[15:09] <rick_h> bcsaller: so I'd start out with debugger; in there before those tests run and peek at Y.one('body').get('innerHTML')
[15:09] <bcsaller> rick_h: thats good to know, but even running them in isolation seems to cause it
[15:10] <bcsaller> rick_h: container seems to populate alright and I made selection of the nodes in the callbacks goto the viewlet container rather than the viewlet-manager container (its ancestor)
[15:10] <rick_h> bcsaller: by isolation you mean with a .only? or by commenting out the rest of the test files?
[15:10] <bcsaller> rick_h: with only/grep
[15:10] <rick_h> bcsaller: I only figured this out after commenting out the actual index.html references and going through them debugging.
[15:11] <rick_h> bcsaller: ah ok
[15:11] <teknico> hatch: I've been there, it's as steep as it looks like :-)
[15:11] <bcsaller> rick_h: maybe I'll give that a quick try
[15:20] <Makyo> jujugui call in 10, kanban now
[15:20] <hatch> oh yeah it's Tuesday thanks Makyo
[15:20] <hatch> :)
[15:20]  * hatch goes to review board
[15:21]  * Makyo on autopilot
[15:21] <hatch> haha
[15:29] <Makyo> jujugui call in 1
[15:31] <hatch> teknico: guichat now
[15:49] <hatch> bcsaller: so somehow button.save-constraints was hitting button.confirm ....I'm a little concerned here :)
[15:51] <rick_h> ugh, bug trackers, where idea go to die.
[15:52] <hatch> rick_h: heh not ALL bug trackers
[15:52] <bcsaller> hatch: yeah, me too, we should have that talk at some point, the distance is definition and invocation of callbacks is all messed up
[15:53] <hatch> sure - can we bench it until after the chat with Gary?
[15:53] <bcsaller> absolutely, thats why I said at some point
[15:56] <hatch> bcsaller: do you need another review?
[15:56] <bcsaller> hatch: you have looked at this branch before, but if you have bandwidth another look would be good
[15:56] <rick_h> antdillon: how are we doing? Need a hand with it?
[15:57] <antdillon> rick_h, Almost there, just trying to workout how to get the sprites.css to have the hover styles after the normal style
[15:58] <rick_h> antdillon: k, going to do this user testing call and afterwards I'll ping you and we can do a hangout and get it straightened out if that's cool?
[15:58] <antdillon> rick_h, Cool, let me know
[15:58] <adeuring> abentley: could you please have a look here https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/charmworld/etag-for-charm-api-view/+merge/178792 ?
[15:59] <abentley> adeuring: Sure thing.
[15:59] <hatch> gary_poster: call now?
[16:00] <antdillon> rick_h, Done it, just updated my branch
[16:02] <rick_h> antdillon: ok, will pull down after this call and check it out. Thanks for working through it
[16:02] <antdillon> rick_h, Thanks
[16:04] <bac> gary_poster: meeting?
[16:06] <abentley> adeuring: This approach to hashing doesn't seem to distinguish between a list with ['a', 'b'] and a dict with {'a': 'b'}.
[16:07] <adeuring> abentley: oh, good catch.
[16:07] <abentley> adeuring: Maybe just serialize to json and hash that?
[16:07] <adeuring> abentley: nice idea, simple and reliable. I'll do this
[16:08] <abentley> adeuring: Cool.  You'll want to specify sort_keys=True.  Other than that, I think it's a stable representation.
[16:08] <adeuring> abentley: right
[16:10] <abentley> adeuring: Also, you can simplfy "if x in y: del[x]" as "y.pop(x, None)"
[16:10] <adeuring> abentley: ah, right
[16:19] <gary_poster> jujugui, sorry I was pulled away.  can we start the call in 5 minutes, at 25 after the hour?
[16:19] <hatch> we are already in it haha
[16:20] <gary_poster> :-) ok cool.  will join then
[16:22] <abentley> adeuring: I think it's reasonable to call _charm_result(Charm(charm_data)) rather than _charm_results([charm_data])[0]
[16:23] <adeuring> abentley: yeah, I thought too that thisa bit more complicated than necessary, but did not want to change existing stuuf...
[16:23] <abentley> adeuring: Cool.
[17:09] <hatch> gary_poster: so it looks like your laptop has a very directional mic - when luca was talking we could barely hear him if it wasn't pointed at him
[17:09] <hatch> that's pretty cool
[17:09] <bcsaller> hatch: we still need to have that other event selector call but I could use a break from video for a bit
[17:09] <hatch> a-greed
[17:09] <hatch> 20mins?
[17:11] <bcsaller> hatch: sounds good
[17:11] <benji> abentley: any hints as to why "bin/migrations upgrade --init" would generate this exception?  migrations.migrate.MissingExodusIndex: Exodus index "charms_pending_010" does not exist.
[17:12] <rick_h> benji: pyc file left around?
[17:13] <benji> rick_h: It's a fresh branch (I don't colocate dev branches, they are all unique snowflakes that deserve their own HD space)
[17:14] <gary_poster> hatch, ack will try to remember
[17:14] <hatch> gary_poster: oh and one more thing - are you going to be landing huw's branch or am I taking over at some point (just because it's getting late there already)
[17:21] <rick_h> jujugui can I help get a second review for ant's branch? https://codereview.appspot.com/12523043
[17:21] <hatch> sure
[17:21] <hatch> you forgot a G in your lgtm :)
[17:22] <rick_h> hatch: hah
[17:23] <rick_h> ugh, and he's gone
[17:23] <hatch> rick_h: so now that we are pulling the CSS into our own stylesheet we can drop the yui3-skin-sam and just go with the .yui3-slider-y
[17:23] <rick_h> hatch: but I thought the sam skin was put on a container of the slider
[17:23] <rick_h> so we need to match the specific-ness to override the default
[17:24] <rick_h> hatch: oh hmm, not on the slider then.
[17:25] <hatch> well yeah we could now stop loading the yui css and then just rely on our own styling
[17:29] <hatch> rick_h: done - w/QA
[17:30] <rick_h> hatch: cool
[17:36] <bcsaller> hatch: whenever you want to have that chat
[17:37] <hatch> rick_h: with all of those styles being overridden it probably isn't much of a stretch to copy over the remaining required styles and then stop loading the yui css for the slider
[17:37] <hatch> bcsaller: ok guichat?
[17:44] <rick_h> hatch: yes, we've had this discussion. However, I've lost my day to helping land this branch and chasing a charm bug. At this point, I'm letting this go, not making anything worse in the current app, and letting there remain the todo to clean up skin-sam to another day.
[17:46] <abentley> benji: Sounds like you didn't run prepare-upgrade first.
[17:47] <benji> ahh; let me try that
[17:48] <benji> abentley: that worked.  Thanks!
[17:50] <abentley> benji: np
[18:09] <hatch> rick_h: alright - I'd like to create a task/card to go through the app and remove all of the yui css entirely
[18:10] <hatch> rick_h: you landed the branch without the user select classes :/
[18:10] <hatch> rules*
[18:10] <rick_h> hatch: ? /me goes to look again
[18:11] <hatch> unless I'm on the wrong diff
[18:11] <rick_h> hatch: it's here, /me checks the diff
[18:11] <hatch> oh woops
[18:11] <hatch> sorry
[18:11] <hatch> I was on the wrong diff
[18:11] <hatch> my bad
[18:12] <rick_h> hatch: ah ok. cool. Had me nervous I was editing and submitting two different things :/
[18:12] <rick_h> hatch: card added
[18:15] <hatch> thanks
[18:59]  * benji takes a really late lunch.
[19:37] <hatch> rick_h: bcsaller jcsackett thought you guys would find this interesting https://github.com/yui/yui3/pull/1063
[19:39] <jcsackett> hatch: that is fantastic.
[19:39] <hatch> yeah could really help simplify some of our routing
[19:47] <bcsaller> yeah, not bad, function or regex makes sense to me there, but regex is a good start
[19:48] <hatch> bcsaller: yeah - his argument against supporting functions was that at that point you should use middleware
[19:48] <hatch> which I suppose is valid
[19:50] <rick_h> hmm, I guess it can help clean up our 3 different view route points, but at the expense of complicating up the routes themselves
[19:50] <rick_h> so 1/2 one and 1/2 another imo
[19:53] <hatch> yeah I actually think that the subapp routes can be distilled into a cascading series of routes instead of how it's currently done
[19:53] <hatch> (which is how they are supposed to work)
[19:53] <hatch> even a bunch of our primary routes could do the same
[19:53] <hatch> well I suppose we are removing like 90% of our primary routes haha
[19:58] <rick_h> yea, if we could verify we hit once and only hit the first matching route we'd be in good shape, but those aren't the rules
[19:58] <hatch> well how routes are 'supposed' to work is that they are supposed to cascade
[19:59] <hatch> so you 'build up' your data set as you step through routes and then show the UI on the final one
[20:00] <hatch> I've never successfully developed that system from the start of an app
[20:00] <hatch> but always ends up being where they logically progress to in the end
[20:10] <bac> abentley: on friday you had a bundle ingested to staging from launchpad, correct?  i'm trying to view the json but get no_such_bundle
[20:11] <bac> abentley: is it still there?  shouldn't this be the url:
[20:11] <bac> http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/2/bundle/wiki-bundle/wiki
[20:11] <abentley> bac: Yes.  You are missing the revision.  http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/2/bundle/~abentley/wiki-bundle-1/wiki
[20:12] <bac> worse, i was missing the fact it wasn't promulgated!
[20:21] <hatch> bcsaller: so it appears that nested describes execute the code in their parents even when run in .only() mode.....very interesting
[20:21]  * hatch is trying to organize tests like you do
[20:26] <abentley> orangesquad, bac or benji: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/separate-qa/+merge/178841 ?
[20:27] <benji> abentley: I'll take a look
[20:27] <abentley> benji: Thanks.
[20:27] <bcsaller> hatch: I tend to do that to reuse test code where I think it makes sense, but I like the simple hierarchy  by itself
[20:27] <hatch> yeah I like how it can say these are the ghosts tests and these are the sections to which it's testing
[20:28] <hatch> make them easier to find/organize
[20:56] <benji> abentley: your branch looks good
[20:57] <abentley> benji: Thanks.
[20:57] <bac> benji or abentley: Branch for review for bug 1208035 -- should be quick.  https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/charmworld/bug-1208035/+merge/178849
[20:57] <_mup_> Bug #1208035: TypeError Bundle takes exactly 2 arguments <charmworld:In Progress by bac> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208035>
[20:57] <abentley> bac: I'll get it.
[20:58] <bac> abentley: thanks for the help earlier.  i am able to access staging now.
[20:58] <abentley> Woot.
[20:59] <abentley> bac: Why are there two test_no_paths?
[20:59] <bac> one charms one bundles
[20:59] <abentley> bac: r=me.
[21:00] <bac> thanks abentley
[21:02] <hatch> I get nervous when a tests doesn't fail
[21:06] <hatch> rick_h: somehow the slider sprites got broked http://comingsoon.jujucharms.com/
[21:07] <hatch> just realized it's past your EOD too :)
[21:36] <hatch> jujugui anyone available for a review? https://codereview.appspot.com/12567043/
[21:36] <bcsaller> hatch: I'll look
[21:36] <hatch> thanks!
[21:36] <hatch> wb gary_poster
[21:37] <hatch> isn't it reeeaaaal late there? :)
[21:37] <gary_poster> hey hatch :-)
[21:37] <gary_poster> 10:37 :-)
[21:37] <hatch> oh ok so not too bad
[21:39] <hatch> bcsaller: the ghost_inspector file changes only add a describe wrapper
[21:40] <hatch> but bzr doesn't handle indentation changes well
[21:53] <hatch> bcsaller: thanks for the review - re-sending the commands at scale - did you mean env should throttle these or core should accept a list?
[21:54] <bcsaller> hatch: it could take a list, which at scale is still a race, or it could support things like 'retry units in state x' as a server side operation
[21:54] <bcsaller> I think that style API makes more sense when you have 1k units that need replacing for example
[21:55] <hatch> yeah I'd like to offload the list to the server, but we can batch the requests to the server right now to get around that in the mean time
[21:56] <hatch> if you think it's necessary
[21:56] <hatch> I think I'll make a ticket regardless
[22:00] <gary_poster> bcsaller, hatch, +1 on fixing the bug you emailed me about.  However, I'd like it to happen after the conflict resolution and scale up/down work.  We could then carve out a few days with a strong expectation that tests and docs for these things would be significantly improved during that time.  Then bcsaller and/or Makyo could work on the charmbrowser bundle code (or prototype) and then bcsaller could help luca prototype the dragging thing.
[22:01] <hatch> that sounds like a plan - today ended up getting bogged down with some reviews/discussions and whatnot so I'm behind anyways :/
[22:01] <gary_poster> ack hatch
[22:02] <hatch> gary_poster: you may also have input on this https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1209015
[22:02] <_mup_> Bug #1209015: Unit action buttons could lock up the UI at scale <juju-gui:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1209015>
[22:04] <bcsaller> gary_poster: that sounds like what we expected, thanks
[22:04] <gary_poster> hatch, thanks.  I don't think it is a burning issue, but will be one to chip away at in the coming months.  Thanks for highlighting it.
[22:04] <hatch> bcsaller: actually caught it :)
[22:05] <bcsaller> nick complete made that read funny :)
[22:05] <hatch> haha woops
[22:07] <hatch> I have filed 26 bugs since I started....look at me go
[22:07] <hatch> about to be 27
[22:09] <hatch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1209016
[22:09] <_mup_> Bug #1209016: Right hand zoom slider handles sprited improperly <juju-gui:Triaged by rharding> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1209016>
[22:09] <hatch> boom
[22:09] <hatch> jujugui need one more review on https://codereview.appspot.com/12567043/
[22:14] <gary_poster> hey hatch, what should I do to fix viewlet-manager-footer in huwshimi's branch?  Can you give me a quick patch?
[22:14] <hatch> umm
[22:14] <hatch> one sec
[22:15] <gary_poster> hatch should I just dupe the style and give it a new class name?  that looks like the heart of your issue IIUC
[22:16] <hatch> yeah the footer style should be reverted and it moved back to where it was in the wrapper
[22:16] <hatch> then a new styles on that element
[22:16] <hatch> s/a//
[22:16] <gary_poster> cool, on it hatch, thanks
[22:16] <benji> later all
[22:16] <hatch> np
[22:16] <hatch> asd
[22:17] <hatch> a
[22:17] <hatch> sorry I broke my client
[22:18] <hatch> did you get my last msg about reverting the style?
[22:41] <hatch> oh valuechange event why won't you fire for me
[22:43] <bcsaller>  hatch I had to deal with that as well
[22:44] <bcsaller> hatch: there is a work-around on the tests of my branch
[22:44] <bcsaller> that took me a while to figure out as well
[22:45] <hatch> well it works fine in chrome but not in phantom for some reason
[22:45] <hatch> looking at your branch
[22:45] <hatch> ahhhh simulate focus
[22:45] <hatch> niiice
[22:45] <hatch> I was .focus()
[22:46] <hatch> that has to be a bug with YUI
[22:48] <hatch> thanks for figuring that out
[22:51] <gary_poster> hatch, https://codereview.appspot.com/12506044/ has my comments to Huw.  review if you get a chance, otherwise np.  I want to review your branch, but it needs qa, and I really should get to bed.
[22:51] <gary_poster> so will leave it for someone tomorrow. Sorry :-/
[22:51] <hatch> sure np :) have a good night
[22:51] <gary_poster> ttyl, all
[22:51] <gary_poster> thanks :-)
[22:54] <hatch> bcsaller: so setting the id of the ghost automatically updates the element in the DOM in the app, but it's not updating the DOM in the tests
[22:54] <hatch> the callback is being called
[22:55] <hatch> the value is being set on the ghost inspector
[22:55] <hatch> ghostService
[22:55] <hatch> i mean
[22:55] <bcsaller> hatch: is it in a textarea?
[22:55] <hatch> nope it's an input but the change callback is being called and setting the id on the ghostService instance
[22:56] <hatch> so whatever is listening to that change event isn't connecting
[22:56] <hatch> do you know where that's listening?
[23:00] <huwshimi> Morning
[23:02] <hatch> morning huw


[03:12] <Ahmuck> anybody around this evening?
[04:37] <az7> meh, yeah kinda
[16:55] <Ahmuck-Sr> anybody interested in flugtag?


[00:50] <Macwinner> hi, what's the correct way to set the CPU governor to performance on jammy and persist it through reboot?
[00:53] <sarnold> probably there's a powersave panel in the control panel or something similar
[00:53] <sarnold> it should control this daemon https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/hadess/power-profiles-daemon
[01:01] <kgiii> ZDNet is fond of Ubuntu 23.04:  https://www.zdnet.com/article/ubuntu-lunar-lobster-could-be-the-surprise-hit-of-2023/
[02:14] <_jak> hey y'all! I accidentally added a dns server at the system level, and I don't seem to be able to remove it.
[02:14] <rbox> how did you "accidentally" add it?
[02:14] <_jak> The command I used to add it was `systemd-resolve -i $VPN_INTERFACE_NAME --set-dns=$SERVER_IP`, which I thought would set it for the vpn interface only
[02:15] <_jak> but I guess because the interface was just a tun interface it added it to my main ethernet iface, enp5s0
[02:15] <rbox> so set it back
[02:16] <_jak> from the man page, I can just do `resolvectl revert enp5s0`, but thats not persistent across reboots
[02:16] <rbox> you said running that command has effected it beteween reboots?
[02:16] <_jak> so I have to set it back every time I have to reboot
[02:16] <_jak> yes
[02:17] <rbox> did it write it into /etc/systemd/resolved.conf?
[02:17] <sarnold> may grep -r the IP in /etc/systemd/ and see if you can find it there?
[02:20] <_jak> rbox: not really? If I'm reading the manpage for resolvectl correctly, that file is just a stub, and on my system it's pretty much empty. Gimme a sec and I'll show you what I mean
[02:20] <_jak> sarnold: nothing there
[02:20] <sarnold> :(
[02:20] <_jak> or rather, it didnt' return any results
[02:22] <_jak> the last time I tried to root this out, I learned that /etc/systemd/resolved.conf points to /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf, but that file just says that its managed by systemd-resolve, and it points to the loopback resolver that systemd-resolve sets up
[02:23] <rbox>  /etc/resolv.conf points to the stub
[02:23] <rbox> not resolved.conf
[02:27] <_jak> rbox: ah yeah I misspoke, resolved.conf has one heading but a lot of empty fields that are commented out
[02:27] <_jak> this is resolv.conf https://termbin.com/1p2cb
[02:28] <_jak> and this is /etc/systemd/resolved.conf https://termbin.com/kwx7a
[02:28] <rbox> if some setting is persissting then its somewher ein /etc or /var
[02:37] <_jak> yeah that's what I thought too, but I came here after grepping through both of those and coming up essentially nil; looking in /etc just yields the config for the vpn and (if I haven't done a revert) a reference in NetworkManager
[02:39] <_jak> and when I grep through /var I just get hits on the vpn config, and systemd-resolve cycling through using and not using $SERVER_IP as a resolver
[02:39] <_jak> any clues where I can go to find out more about how systemd-resolve actually works? the manpage kind of sent me in a circle
[02:40] <rbox> the source
[03:47] <owner> hi
[04:03] <delcfv> olá
[04:04] <delcfv> hello
[04:08] <delcfv> i am having trouble to run to run systemback and pinguy builder on lubuntu 22.04. I am looking for an alternative app to create live custom iso
[04:09] <arraybolt3> delcfv: I think there's instructions for how to do something like that, let me see if I can find them.
[04:09] <delcfv> thanks!
[04:09] <arraybolt3> delcfv: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization See if that helps.
[04:10] <delcfv> gonna do it. thank you
[04:16] <delcfv> I've checked it and it is not what I am looking .. this one is same as cubic, you need to configure all the iso. The apps I mentionde (pinguy and systemback) takes like a picture from the current system that is already configured. I configured a lot of things (i.e. wi-fi usb) that I simply dont remember how, and there's a lot of configs I dont want to do again in chroot, I junt wanted to take my already running system and put ir
[04:16] <delcfv> into a live/installer cd
[04:24] <delcfv> I was able to install Systemback but , when I try to run it , it says it was unable to get root permissions
[04:26] <arraybolt3> Oh. Hmm...
[04:26] <arraybolt3> delcfv: Do you have to run it *as* root with sudo?
[04:27] <arraybolt3> (Systemback doesn't appear to be in Ubuntu's repos, I don't think.)
[04:27] <delcfv> actually I tried to run it through the menu in lxqt
[04:27] <delcfv> I installed it using apt
[04:27] <delcfv> the message says "it was not possible to start graphic interface of systemback. uncapable of getting rooot permissions"
[04:28] <delcfv> so I click ok an it closes
[04:28] <arraybolt3> delcfv: What was the exact command you used to install it? "sudo apt install systemback"?
[04:29] <arraybolt3> Yeah it looks like something like that. Try running "sudo systemback" in a terminal to see if that works.
[04:29] <delcfv> yes, but beforre I added the repository
[04:29] <delcfv> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/nemh/systemback/ubuntu xenial main"
[04:30] <delcfv> ok
[04:30] <delcfv> sudo systemback
[04:30] <delcfv> QStandardPaths: XDG_RUNTIME_DIR not set, defaulting to '/tmp/runtime-root'
[04:30] <delcfv>  Unsafe X Window authorization!
[04:30] <delcfv>
[04:30] <delcfv>  Por favor não use o comando 'sudo'.
[04:31] <delcfv> "please dont use sudo command" in the last line
[04:31] <arraybolt3> lol
[04:31] <arraybolt3> OK well that's not going to work then.
[04:31] <delcfv> if I try without sudo, it gives an error dialog claiming about root permission
[04:32] <arraybolt3> Sadly it looks like systemback was installed from a third-party repository since it is *not* in the Ubuntu repositories themselves. You may need to ask the systemback developer for help, as he'll actually know how to help. We probably won't.
[04:32] <arraybolt3> s/he'll/they'll/
[04:33] <delcfv> ok, thank you very much. It seems no  longer have support, so I am already looking for and alternative. PInguy Builder was another try, but could not install due do dependencies errors, and they no longer have support too
[04:34] <arraybolt3> I have an idea, if you're interested.
[04:35] <arraybolt3> You could set up everything the way you want, then boot from a live USB and shrink down your partition as much as possible.
[04:35] <arraybolt3> Then just make a disk image of the start of the hard drive including everything up until a bit past the end of the partition.
[04:35] <arraybolt3> Meh, that actually might have problems...
[04:36] <arraybolt3> ...though you could just take an image of just the partition.
[04:36] <arraybolt3> But basically, get a disk image of the set-up-and-shrunk partition, then you can partition a new disk, flash the partition, grow it, grow the filesystem, and have your setup ready to go.
[04:38] <delcfv> so I would basically copy everything as is, removing the free space, right? I have separate partitions for / and /home, is this a problem?
[04:39] <arraybolt3> Yeah, that's the basic idea.
[04:40] <arraybolt3> Separate / and /home partitions may complicate things.
[04:41] <arraybolt3> I'm realizing though that even my original idea might have complications requiring extra fiddling to get things to work right. Hmm.
[04:41] <arraybolt3> It might not though.
[04:42] <delcfv> so here's a suggestion for developers, apparently there's a gap for a new tools that does it on that way.. I was excited when I saw the possibility with those two tools but unfortunately they didnt work
[04:42] <arraybolt3> It definitely seems like a cool idea, and while similar things exist for the server world, they could be useful for the desktop world too.
[04:44] <delcfv> I am already using Timeshift for system snapshots but itś not the same thing. With a live/installer iso with all my programs, configurations(including wifi usb fix lol) I could reinstall it on the same pc and evenin other pcs
[05:45] <adit> hello
[05:45] <adit> ngopi
[05:45] <adit> exit
[07:23] <premkumar> copy and paste is diasble in my new partition
[07:23] <premkumar> what can i do please help anyone?
[07:24] <arraybolt3> To be clear, you can't copy from or paste into any app on your system?
[07:24] <premkumar> unable to copy and paste
[07:24] <arraybolt3> If that's the case, try using the right ctrl key rather than the left ctrl key, maybe your keyboard is broken?
[07:25] <premkumar> no brother copy and paste option in disable
[07:25] <arraybolt3> I don't know what you mean by "disabled". There is no setting in Ubuntu to disable copy and paste.
[07:25] <arraybolt3> Either your keyboard is broken, or you're trying to do something specific that isn't working as expected, or something is horribly broken.
[07:26] <premkumar> copy and paste option is unable to click
[07:26] <arraybolt3> What exactly are you trying to copy? A file?
[07:26] <arraybolt3> (Copying and pasting a file works differently from copying and pasting text, for example.)
[07:27] <arraybolt3> There has to be more details you can give. "unable to copy and paste" is not enough info - there's too many possible other things involved to know what is wrong (what are you copying? where are you pasting it? what apps are involved? etc.). I need that extra detail in order to be helpful.
[07:31] <premkumar> i create a new partition in that partition i cannot able to copy and paste
[07:31] <EriC^^> premkumar: copy also is disabled? or only paste?
[07:31] <arraybolt3> premkumar: Oh. I get it.
[07:32] <arraybolt3> You probably have file permissions set wrong. I misunderstood "partition".
[07:32] <arraybolt3> premkumar: OK, can you open a terminal? Ctrl+Alt+T will usually do that.
[07:33] <premkumar> terminal is open brother
[07:33] <alkisg> premkumar: which program are you using, gparted?
[07:33] <arraybolt3> Nice. OK, do you know what folder your partition is in? It may be under /media/<username>.
[07:33] <arraybolt3> alkisg: I think he's trying to copy and paste files between two partitions.
[07:33] <arraybolt3> If that's the case, this is just a matter of running "chmod 0777" on the folder his partition is mounted into.
[07:33] <premkumar> yes arraybolt3 brother
[07:34] <premkumar> chmod 0777 how to run
[07:34] <arraybolt3> premkumar: OK, so run "cd /media/<your username here>".
[07:35] <premkumar> in terminal ?
[07:35] <arraybolt3> Yes.
[07:35] <arraybolt3> (Replace <your username here> with your username, and also the quote marks shouldn't be part of the command.)
[07:36] <EriC^^> premkumar: inside the folder you're trying to paste in right click -> open in terminal
[07:38] <arraybolt3> premkumar: Follow EriC^^'s advice, the way he's saying to do things is easier than what I was suggesting.
[07:39] <premkumar> iam do this brother not working
[07:40] <alkisg> premkumar: can you run this command inside the terminal, and tell us the output? lsblk -fe7 | nc termbin.com 9999
[07:50] <premkumar> yes alkisg i type
[07:54] <alkisg> premkumar: OK, tell us the output, e.g. https://termin.com/1234
[07:56] <premkumar> output after lsblk
[07:56] <premkumar> NAME MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINTS
[07:56] <premkumar> loop0
[07:56] <premkumar>        7:0    0  10.5M  1 loop /snap/auto-cpufreq/124
[07:56] <premkumar> loop1
[07:56] <premkumar>        7:1    0  72.9M  1 loop /snap/core22/522
[08:01] <Exotic> a
[09:54] <dzhi> hi all
[09:54] <dzhi> anyone could recommend a solution better than overlayroot?
[10:21] <snowkid> If I have to make a series of very large temp files on an NVME during an ETL, is it better (for the NVME) to write them all first then delete the set or delete them as I go
[10:22] <snowkid> If theres a better group I can ask this ? in also lmk
 "If theres a better group I can..." <- This is a kernel-lebel device driver issue, in combination with a filesystem implementation question. I'm afraid #ubuntu:libera.chat is not relevant for that at all.
[10:30] <M-Ira[m]> Kernel level, of course.
[10:30] <snowkid> pretty sure of that, but you know why not ask the smartest guys on irc
 "pretty sure of that, but you..." <- I used to work for a storage company so I understand the question, I doubt most people here would even know the jargon ;)
[10:46] <M-Ira[m]> What are you actually trying to do?
[11:10] <snowkid> I have to generate about 500 Gigs of json files at 300 Megs a piece, transform them, generate sql files out of them and insert into pg.
[11:11] <snowkid> i would do it all in one swath but the data cones in too slow to warrant the risk
[11:36] <Lettiudo>  $ sudo zpool create ssd1 /dev/sda -> ./dev/sda is in use and contains a unknown filesystem
[11:38] <Lettiudo> ok I will be back
[11:47] <nikolam> can I add to DHCP ethernet interface, another static IP address, in Netplan config?
[11:48] <nikolam> I have another interface with 2 static Ip addresses and it workd. But would like to keep the first interface on DHCP for main Ip and add a second one
[11:51] <JohannesWegener[> could anybody help me with routing problems
[11:51] <JohannesWegener[> hi
[11:51] <JohannesWegener[> I have a tuntap interface and it seems it doesn't want to forward my packets to my upstream device (enp0s1)
[11:53] <JohannesWegener[> https://pastebin.com/raw/RsgMtpWc < tcpdump
[11:55] <JohannesWegener[> https://pastebin.com/raw/Tvm7PHtQ <- iptables, routing tables and addresses
[11:55] <nikolam> what 'route' command outputs?
[11:56] <JohannesWegener[> see second paste bin for ip r
[11:59] <JohannesWegener[> It seems it might be some issue with what I try to setup (open5gs and ueransim) that both need to be on two VMs/inside docker for some reason I don't understand
[12:00] <nikolam> sudo sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 ?
[12:00] <JohannesWegener[> of course I did set that
[12:04] <maks> Hello, I'am struggling with permamanent change of my mouse configuration, xinput --set-prop works fine in terminal, but I cannot put in on autostart
[12:20] <maks> Hello, I'am struggling with permamanent change of my mouse configuration, xinput --set-prop works fine in terminal, but I cannot put in on autostart
[12:22] <delcfv> ok, so I have not been on IRC by almost 20 years, and I used to have tunned irc apps with many options/buttons and lots of groups. NOw I have QUassel IRC and can see this group only. HOw could I look for and connect to other servers and other groups? I'm a bit lost here
[12:25] <oerheks> maks, create a file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf and put it there?
[12:30] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:33] <maks> @oerheks i think i've tried this solution but i cannot see this file, somehow it has been deleted
[12:33] <oerheks> no, that folder is empty, create that file
[12:33] <oerheks>  /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ are for manual added conf files
[12:34] <oerheks> from https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/libinput
[12:36] <maks> thanks, I will try this way, I hoped to make it easier by sh script but it doesn't work on new ubuntu
[13:58] <ptempier> hello
[13:59] <ptempier> i got a bug in ubuntu-drivers-common , tried to ping the devs here : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1965811  , but it s in a similar bug
[13:59] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 1965811 in software-properties (Ubuntu Jammy) "software-properties-qt does not load driver information" [Critical, Fix Released]
[14:00] <ptempier> is it goos enought or should i make a separate bug report  ?
[14:05] <oerheks> ptempier, there is a fix, wait for it to be published in software-properties/0.99.20
[14:06] <oerheks> also, you can add yourself to this bugreport. no need for that, AFAIK
[14:06] <ptempier> ok , thanks
[14:07] <ptempier> my understanding is that this bug/fix is for software-properties-qt, but that there s the same issue in ubuntu-drivers-common
[14:10] <ptempier> @oerheks, there's no fix in detect.py in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/592251500/software-properties_0.99.19_0.99.20.diff.gz
[14:10] <oerheks> oh, i read it was working
[14:11] <oerheks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1965811/comments/4
[14:11] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 1965811 in software-properties (Ubuntu Jammy) "software-properties-qt does not load driver information" [Critical, Fix Released]
[14:12] <ptempier> yes yes, ut my understanding is that 2 differebt packages have the same error codded in them
[14:14] <oerheks> write a comment to that bugreport 1965811, to help
[14:14] <oerheks> you are on Jammy, right?
[14:14] <oerheks> 22.04
[14:16] <ptempier> yes, thats  what i did , that was also my question if it was enought or if i needed a separate bug report
[14:18] <oerheks> nope, this will do
[14:19] <ptempier> thanks
[14:35] <Guest86> I earlier today installed (and later de-installed) ubuntu 22.10. I encountered a number of bugs such as typing exit in the terminal caused the screen to glitch horribly and I couldn't leave the session. Did I make the mistake of not using 22.04?
[14:35] <tmpm697> why images in this link formatted with qcow2 instead of using qcow3? https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/
[14:36] <tmpm697> qcow3 format created from like 2016.
[14:36] <tmpm697> why still using qcow2? or i missed smth?
[14:38] <ruser> is newer == better?
[14:39] <Guest86> What's wrong with qcow2? People still use zip despite being as old as MS-DOS.
[14:39] <Guest86> Just an example.
[14:39] <tmpm697> sound better: https://wiki.qemu.org/Features/Qcow3
[14:39] <oerheks> There are three versions of QCOW, though there are only two main ones: qcow and qcow2. The newest qcow3 format is just an extension of qcow2 and tools like qemu-img refer to qcow3 as qcow2, there is no -f qcow3 switch for specifically creating qcow3 images.
[14:39] <oerheks> so, qcow2 it is.
[14:40] <tmpm697> so if i use latest qcow2, it's qcow3?
[14:41] <tmpm697> how can i verify that if qcow3 is supported in my system?
[14:41] <Guest86> Anyways. About my issue I had earlier. Is using 22.10 something worth using for production use or daily use? Or should I really be using 22.04?
[14:41] <tmpm697> i sticked with 22.04 lts
[14:41] <tmpm697> on an vm for testing.
[14:42] <tmpm697> and it's qcow2 image vm that why i had my question :v
[14:42] <tmpm697> https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/ , official ubuntu cloud images bundle with qcow2 format.
[14:42] <tmpm697> is that mean there's no qcow3 format?
[14:43] <oerheks> use qemu-img info to check the image format
[14:43] <oerheks> indeed, there are no qcow3 images.
[14:43] <tmpm697> yeah i used that against image from https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/, it's qcow2
[14:44] <tmpm697> i mean how can i know if that version of qemu actuall support qcow3 features in qcow2 format?
[14:44] <Guest86> Check the manpage.
[14:45] <tmpm697> no qcow3 in `man qemu-system-x86_64`
[14:49] <code105> good morning
[14:49] <code105> how are you guys
[14:49] <tmpm697> evening here :v
[14:52] <code105> @tmpm697 Oh really it's evening in Hanoi
[14:53] <tmpm697> oh shit =)))
[15:39] <Amber12313> Heil Hitler Heil Führer
[15:39] <Amber12313> Dear battlemates:
[15:39] <Drone> Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
[15:39] <Amber12313> Jews, Freemasons, Slavs and homosexuals are to be exterminated according to the judgment of the People's Court of Munich n. 1/03 of 2023.
[15:39] <Amber12313> Whoever delivers them, preferably alive, will be exempt from paying taxes for 5 (five) years.
[15:39] <Amber12313> The delivery will be carried out in the extermination camp of Bagno a Ripoli.
[15:42] <arraybolt3> !ops | Network policy violating content from Amber12313
[15:43] <arraybolt3> Meh, I shoulda used #ubuntu-ops probably since the guy already left.
 "I have to generate about 500..." <- Ohhhh... That kind of etl. Duhh. I was thinking about something else...
[15:43] <M-Ira[m]> So the question is about buffing the data and writing only complete blocks (I think 64kb for nvme?) as opposed to many tiny writes? Well, I suppose writing bigger buffered chunks is better for longevity, but it is probably negligible.
[15:47] <krytarik> arraybolt3: Indeed, it doesn't help particularly much here when the "emergency" has already passed. >_<
[15:50] <arraybolt3> Sorry about that.
[15:53] <webchat93> I just purchased a Dell XPS-13 9315 with Ubuntu 20.04 and I can not get my printer Epson ET-2650 to work.
[15:54] <oerheks> is it listed in openprinting.org?
[15:55] <webchat93> I do not know
[15:55] <arraybolt3> webchat93: Does this help? https://epson.com/Support/Printers/All-In-Ones/ET-Series/Epson-ET-2650/s/SPT_C11CF47201?review-filter=Linux
[16:01] <webchat93> which of the downloads do i chose there are 2 Deb packages 3 RPM packages and a tar-gz package?
[16:03] <webchat93> I installed the LSB package already.
[16:03] <rpittau> hello everyone, we just found a discrepancy in the files content for the shim-signed package in ubuntu focal, the version 1.40.9+15.7-0ubuntu1 on https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal-updates/shim-signed has the wrong list of files reported
[16:05] <ioria> webchat93, not a printers expert, but have you tried to simple install printer-driver-escpr from the ubuntu repo ?
[16:07] <snowkid> M-Ira[m] I was just trying to be considerate because when amateur users try to use this on their NVMe it will burn up precious readwrite cycles on their HW
[16:07] <snowkid> its cool I found #hardware
[16:09] <tomreyn> webchat93: i think your chances will be best with the epson-inkjet-printer-escpr_1.7.25-1lsb3.2_amd64.deb package
[16:10] <tomreyn> webchat93: though it's possible that a suitable driver is already installed.
[16:11] <webchat93> I installed the epson-inkjet-printer-escpr_1.7.25-1lsb3.2_amd64.deb package and it is still not printing
[16:12] <tomreyn> rpittau: which architecture?
[16:12] <rpittau> tomreyn: I checked only amd64
[16:13] <tomreyn> webchat93: you need to also configure the printer at http://localhost:631
[16:14] <tomreyn> rpittau: does what you downloaded match the SHA256 checksum at https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal-updates/amd64/shim-signed/download ?
[16:14] <rpittau> tomreyn: checking
[16:15] <gartral> major issue: there's a package conflict with DiscoDOS and mono-devel. I'm in a state where I can't remove discodos or install mono-devel. Apt will not continue with apt --fix-broken install. This is ubuntu 22.04.2 LTS
[16:17] <rpittau> tomreyn: unfortunately I can't verify the checksum at the moment, but I can confirm the version
[16:17] <rpittau> tomreyn: Get:2 https://mirror.gra1.ovh.opendev.org/ubuntu focal-updates/main amd64 shim-signed amd64 1.40.9+15.7-0ubuntu1 [667 kB]
[16:18] <rpittau> tomreyn: this is the contet https://pastebin.com/raw/RSbMAMzt
[16:20] <tomreyn> rpittau: what is the actual problem, the deviation, what did you expect, what did you see instead, which impact does it have? can you sum it up in words?
[16:21] <rpittau> tomreyn: the impact is that we have scripts that work based on the file list, if that list is wrong kind of breaks our automation unexpectedly, catches us by surprise
[16:22] <tomreyn> rpittau: you have scripts which retrieve information from packages.ubuntu.com and work based on that? if so, change that.
[16:23] <tomreyn> this is a community run site, i would not recommend trusting the information provided there too much to be complete or current.
[16:24] <tomreyn> (i don't expect it to provide intentionally wrong information)
[16:24] <rpittau> tomreyn: I probably expressed myself badly, we don't have automation based on packages.ubuntu.com, but on the content of the package listed there. Anyway, if that source is not to be trusted, would you suggest an alternative?
[16:25] <tomreyn> rpittau: an installed ubuntu system
[16:25] <tomreyn> or your local archive mirror
[16:26] <rpittau> tomreyn: ok, thanks
[16:26] <tomreyn> rpittau: so your scripts unpack packages, probably using "dpkg -x"? and then?
[16:28] <rpittau> tomreyn: we download the package, unpack it and copy part of the content in a different location to be used, in this case the signed shimx64.efi file, that changed name unexpectedly in focal, which is an LTS release
[16:29] <tomreyn> so, i'm now guessing the difference you're talking about is in these two files? ./usr/lib/shim/shimx64.efi.signed.latest ./usr/lib/shim/shimx64.efi.signed.previous
[16:30] <rpittau> tomreyn: the name of the file was /usr/lib/shim/shimx64.efi.signed, it's become /usr/lib/shim/shimx64.efi.signed.latest
[16:31] <tomreyn> i see
[16:31] <tomreyn> and this change took place between when you downloaded the package and when it was installed on the system?
[16:31] <rpittau> tomreyn: we fixed the CI automation, not a huge change, it was just a big surprise to see the name change happen
[16:32] <rpittau> that's why I asked for a reliable source for the package content
[16:32] <rpittau> I guess I can build a script to read the content from the mirror
[16:33] <tomreyn> the reliable source of a package content is the package, which should be verified by its checksum, which should be verified by its Release file, which should be verified by its cryptographic signature, which should be verified with its gpgp signing key, which should be verified through a https:// download from ubuntu.com, i think
[16:34] <tomreyn> rpittau: fortunately, most of those verification steps are carried out by apt automatically
[16:35] <rpittau> again, just not expecting a content change like that in the middle of a stable release lifecycle
[16:35] <tomreyn> so content of this package changed from one version to the other? that's not too unusual
[16:36] <tomreyn> if it changed on the same package version, that'd be bad, but i'm not seeing you state so
[16:37] <bn_work> hi, Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, how does one flush the DNS cache?  neither of the items mentioned on https://vitux.com/how-to-flush-the-dns-cache-on-ubuntu/ exist??
[16:38] <rpittau> tomreyn: I expect the content of a package to be the same even between versions during a stable distribution lifecycle, but in this case it changed between the same versions
[16:38] <rpittau> from 1.40.7 to 1.40.9
[16:40] <tomreyn> rpittau: hmm, if the content changed for a versioned package i'd consider this (at least) a bug, and would report it. if contents changed between different versions of this package, i would not be surprised.
[16:40] <rpittau> tomreyn: alright, thank you for your help
[16:44] <tomreyn> rpittau: so... i could NOT back this up with references to https://packaging.ubuntu.com - but my understanding of "release stability" is that software remains functionally compatible to the original versions' release, not that the files provided in a package will remain identially named.
[16:45] <tomreyn> bn_work: resolvectl flush-caches
[16:46] <tomreyn> bn_work: the systemd-resolve command last existed in Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
[16:48] <bn_work> ok, thanks
[16:48] <tomreyn> gartral: both packages are in universe, thus have received only community support so far. this may or may not change in ubuntu pro.
[16:49] <tomreyn> gartral: if you have apt commands and output generated by it which shows the details of this conflict, maybe we can help you solve this.
 "עירא - Ira I was just trying..." <- Makes sense. So what did the #hardware peeps say? 64k writes?
[17:06] <transhumanist> hi! can anyone help run down  a problem with 22.10 where it seems to be sucking up 64 gig of ram and about 20 gig of swap space?
[17:08] <transhumanist> https://bpa.st/KA3BG
[17:10] <ravage> transhumanist: that is 2GB of swap first of all. show the output of "free -m"
[17:10] <ravage> or better "free -mh"
[17:11] <peirik> Pressing the Super key brings up the Activities Overview which displays thumbnails of all open application windows. Is there any way to open a similar overview screen but only with the windows for the currently active/focused application (like the App Expose on Mac)?
[17:12] <transhumanist> ah , thanks ravage nm miss read it
[17:13] <transhumanist> free -mh    total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available Mem:            62Gi        62Gi        87Mi        69Mi       315Mi       8.0Mi   Swap:          2.0Gi       1.9Gi        85Mi
[17:13] <transhumanist> it is using 62 Gi so it seems unless I am miss reading that too
[17:14] <tomreyn> transhumanist: what's the output of: cat /proc/version
[17:15] <transhumanist> Linux version 5.19.0-35-generic (buildd@lcy02-amd64-014) (x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc-12 (Ubuntu 12.2.0-3ubuntu1) 12.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu) 2.39) #36-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Fri Feb 3 18:36:56 UTC 2023
[17:19] <tomreyn> and this "ramdrive-ram" you deleted, what's this? can you pastebin "vmstat" and "vmstat -s"
[17:20] <transhumanist> https://bpa.st/TC3R6
[17:20] <transhumanist> that is an old ram drive, it didnt appear in /etc/fstab so not sure why it persists if that is the issue and it was supposed to be 32 gig at the time anyway
[17:21] <transhumanist> ah wait one more possiblity zram or zswap, I forgot about that hold on
[17:35] <snowkid> M-Ira[m] basically not enough to care unless problems arise
[17:42] <transhumanist> tomreyn, seems that zram and zswap are not installed so that isnt the culprit
[17:42] <transhumanist> going to try rebooting one more time and see if it clears the issue perhaps some part of ram drive is still hanging around in memory or something
[17:43] <transhumanist> bb in 2
[18:34] <Guest15> hi
[18:35] <Guest15> i need help front multi jack. detect headphone but not mic.
[18:35] <Guest15> http://alsa-project.org/db/?f=d75bff443b2b3cf5c47b9139e33a40eec1da449a
[18:37] <oerheks> the jack of your device is multi?
[18:37] <Guest15> Windows Work like Multi
[18:37] <oerheks> open terminal; alsamixer # and see if there are sliders down / muted
[18:38] <Guest15> plug headset and show me popup `headset or headset with mic`
[18:39] <Guest15> oerheks pavucontrol show headphone and mic no detected
[18:40] <oerheks> Comet Lake  .. seen a lot of issues, is  firmware-sof-signed installed??
[18:41] <oerheks> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1454347/dummy-ouput-no-sound-ubuntu-22-04-and-22-10
[18:41] <Guest15> oerheks i can install 20.04.6?
[18:42] <oerheks> yes, but why?
[18:42] <Guest15> i`ll try thanks
[18:47] <Guest15> linux-firmware installed
[18:47] <Guest15> firmware-sof-signed dpkg error  '/lib/firmware/intel/sof/sof-bdw.ri have in linux-firmware too
[19:18] <mozambique> HELLO
[19:18] <mozambique> sorry
[19:52] <luna__> I just would like to inform you that mate ubuntu, even with the gnome de, will not give me the ability to sign in to my already exsisting discord account that worked on ubuntu vanilla 22.04
[19:53] <leftyfb> luna__: that's not how you ask for support
[19:53] <ravage> ok. noted to /dev/null. have a nice day :)
[19:57] <luna__> I thought I was clear that i was not asking for support. I had given up.
[19:57] <ravage> then please dont write it here. this is a support channel
[19:57] <ravage> bye :D
[19:58] <morgan-acer> oh I apologize is there hope? -rewise - Does anyone know anything about discord.com )open discord in browser) only giving us the opportunity to register for a new account and not to give a signin page for an existing account?
[19:58] <morgan-acer> reVise
[19:59] <ravage> https://discord.com/login
[20:00] <morgan-acer> related fact: I quit using the discord-app (in a 22.04 gnome install) because journalctl showed that discord was constantly doing something that made trouble and filled up the journalctl file with refused things.
[20:01] <morgan-acer> ravage, right that IS where I witnessed the problem.
[20:01] <ravage> what problem?
[20:02] <morgan-acer> The problem I described above, that of not getting a login page, only getting the new signup page.
[20:02] <ravage> i get the login page. i can login.
[20:04] <morgan-acer> ravage, I should re-mention that this was a mate install, using mate or the gnome de/
[20:05] <ravage> i see no relevance here really. your DE should not affect the contents of websites
[20:06] <ravage> if you have problems with discord's website you should contact discord
[20:06] <morgan-acer> righon ravage. So you dont understand either.
[20:06] <morgan-acer> right on
[20:06] <morgan-acer> and I have.
[20:07] <morgan-acer> "should not" the most famous set of words....
[20:07] <ravage> great then
[20:08] <morgan-acer> I had a thought during this convo. I shall install the app and see what I get.
[20:08] <morgan-acer> Thanks for your time and attention.
[20:26] <bn_work> tomreyn:  so did they forget to update the text for this in 22.04 LTS?  so is the new method on 22.04+ to check what DNS servers are used to now interact with `resolvectl status`? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/VvFZmaTD/cat%20%2Fetc%2Fresolv.conf.log
[20:27] <tomreyn> bn_work: who is "they"?
[20:28] <bn_work> tomreyn: I guess whoever updated how DNS resolution now works in Ubuntu?
[20:28] <tomreyn> bn_work: i mean: what made you think you should be using systemd-resolve rather than resolvctl in the first place?
[20:29] <tomreyn> i don't know which text you'Re referring to, which documentation or similar
[20:29] <bn_work> https://vitux.com/how-to-flush-the-dns-cache-on-ubuntu/ ?
[20:29] <tomreyn> ah, you mean some third party website is stating things incorrectly.
[20:30] <tomreyn> that does seem to be the case, yes
[20:30] <bn_work> also, in the past /etc/resolv.conf used to just flatly list the DNS servers there (not sure if this is Linode just changing what the default is in their bootstrapped Linode image though)
[20:32] <bn_work> tomreyn: I wonder how they got it to work because they claim they did this on 22.04
[20:32] <tomreyn> so indeed, as explained previously, and as explained in the file you just posted, you can use "resolvectl" to query the configuration of the local dns cache
[20:33] <ravage> i see no publish date on that article but https://vitux.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/word-image-70.png shows that they are not able to predict the future
[20:33] <tomreyn> bn_work: i think this vitux.com website is just providing incorrect information in this article. it's best to work with official documentation when you can.
[20:34] <tomreyn> bn_work: maybe start with this: ls -l /etc/resolv.conf
[20:35] <tomreyn> and then read the full comment header of what you posted
[20:35] <tomreyn> and then maybe refer to these man pages, as needed
[20:39] <bn_work> ravage: lol
[20:41] <ioria> ravage, right
[20:41] <ioria> ravage, is from 2018
[20:41] <bn_work> tomreyn: ah, I guess I misinterpreted your comment the other day to mean `systemd-resolved` isn't even being used anymore (when I guess it was just the command?)
[20:42] <ioria> ravage, (on firefox) View page Source
[20:44] <ioria> bn_work, https://askubuntu.com/questions/1409726/systemd-resolve-command-not-found-in-ubuntu-22-04-desktop
[20:46] <tomreyn> bn_work: The information I tried to convey then is: "systemd-resolve" (the command, not the daemon) does no longer (it used to exist in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS) exist in Ubuntu 20.04 LTs and later.
[20:55] <MonsieurBon> Hi. I have a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon 3rd Gen. Recently my HDMI stopped working. The external monitor is not being detected anymore. The monitor is running fine on HDMI from other laptops. What could be the issue here?
[20:58] <tomreyn> a bad hdmi cable, a firmware or software change, a hardware failure.
[21:04] <MonsieurBon> tomreyn, the hdmi cable should not be the issue. It works fine with other laptops running Windows or Ubuntu. Firmware did not change recently. Software change or hardware failure are probably the options, yes. What can I try to do to solve the issue?
[21:12] <topcat001> MonsieurBon: try the Ubuntu ISO's live mode; that should help isolate any software issues.
[21:18] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: Something you haven't eliminated is the hardware on the laptop.
[21:19] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: How do you know the monitor is not detected?
[21:20] <MonsieurBon> topcat001, jhutchins, I'll give the Ubuntu ISO's live mode a go to eliminate a hardware failure. But can't do that at the moment.
[21:20] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, it's not reacting when plugged in and turned on and it does not show up under Settings -> Displays
[21:23] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: Ok, that's clear at least.  Yeah, I'd try a live image, which might not have whatever got upgraded and maybe broke.
[21:24] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: Model names and numbers don't reliably identify the hardware; what chipset is it, and what driver are you running?
[21:25] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, Intel HD Graphics 5500 no special drivers
[21:26] <jhutchins> i915 probably?
[21:27] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, how do I find out?
[21:30] <topcat001> lspci -k
[21:30] <jhutchins> lsmod would show any kernel level drivers, /var/log/Xorg.0.log if you're running X11, and I imagine Wayland has some kind of log.  (Note that the X log is very noisy.)
[21:31] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, i915, yes
[21:31] <jhutchins> topcat001: I don't think that shows the X drivers, just the kernel level.
[21:32] <jhutchins> Ok, well known, no known problems recently.
[21:34] <jhutchins> Does anything show up with xrandr?
[21:37] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, xrandr: https://pastebin.com/LfJg4NCh
[21:40] <topcat001> Since the X driver (DDX) is either "intel" or "modesetting", not i915, I assumed you meant the kernel driver.
[21:41] <topcat001> but yes, X log is the easy way to find which DDX is in use
[21:42] <jilocasin> evening everyone
[21:43] <octav1a> hi
[21:43] <octav1a> what do you think about this? https://ubuntuunity.org/download/
[21:43] <leftyfb> !ot | octav1a
[21:44] <jilocasin> can anyone explain how an ubuntu  20.04.5 LTS *server* version suddenly has a dozen or more gnome-shell processes running?
[21:45] <ravage> jilocasin: someone, probably you(?) installed desktop packages
[21:45] <jilocasin> ravage: not me, it's a server that I only access via ssh.
[21:45] <ravage> you can check /var/log/apt/history.log
[21:46] <leftyfb> jilocasin: someone installed 1 or more packages that required gnome-shell
[21:47] <jilocasin> leftyfb: thanks any idea how I might find out what that package(s) might be?
[21:49] <jilocasin> leftyfb: thanks, I found it.
[21:51] <jilocasin> leftyfb: according to apt's history, the only think installed today was gnu parallel
[21:52] <leftyfb> jilocasin: that file only goes back so far
[21:52] <jilocasin> leftyfb: looking at the source for parallel now, no references to gnome anything.  it was just started about an hour ago....
[21:52] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: Sorry real life... I don't have any actionable suggestions.  Does the laptop not have VGA out?
[21:52] <jilocasin> leftyfb: the gnome processes.
[21:53] <leftyfb> jilocasin: zgrep Commandline.*install /var/log/apt/history*
[21:54] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, no problem! Nope, no VGA. It has mini DP, but I don't have an adapter right now. I'll try to get one in the office on Friday to see if that works. I'll quickly give the live usb stick a go. I'll be back.
[21:54] <jilocasin> leftyfb: nothing there either...
[21:54] <tomreyn> zgrep -C2 gnome-shell /var/log/apt/history.log*
[21:55] <jilocasin> tomreyn: ugg lots og gnome there.
[21:56] <leftyfb> jilocasin: zgrep " install " /var/log/dpkg*
[21:56] <jhutchins> It's interesting and possibly significant that xrandr doesn't list the DP.
[21:57] <jilocasin> leftyfb: piping that through grep gnome-shell shows that someone did indead install it :/
[21:57] <jilocasin> leftyfb: any idea how to find out who did that?
[21:58] <leftyfb> jilocasin: look through /var/log/auth* for the date/time in question
[21:58] <tomreyn> apt-history.log should really say, if it's not rotated out
[21:59] <tomreyn> "Requested-By: "
[21:59] <leftyfb> tomreyn: that also. But again, matching the file and time
[21:59] <tomreyn> yes
[22:06]  * jilocasin ugggg.... history log in iso date, auth log in Feb 02 00:00:00 format. why do they do this to us.
[22:08] <jilocasin> it was a littel bit convoluted, but I do believe I've found the culprit.  thanks everyone for your help.
[22:09] <jhutchins> jilocasin: Care to share your results for those of us in the cheap seats?
[22:11] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, no success with the live USB... But the output from xrandr was a bit different: https://pastebin.com/QXSrf5uF
[22:11] <cryptonector> I thought `apt-get install $pkg` should install all its dependencies, but then why do I get `The following packages have unmet dependencies: $pkg : Depends: $other_pkg but it is not going to be installed`?
[22:12] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: Ok, yeah, it shows the HDMI and the DP (2ea?).
[22:12] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, so at least in live USB the HDMI is kind of detected, even though the monitor would not show up...
[22:12] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: But still no display?
[22:12] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, I have on each. No idea why there are two...
[22:12] <jhutchins> MonsieurBon: Did you power off or just reboot to the iso?
[22:13] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, Just reboot.   I mean ... "Did you try turning it off and back on again?"
[22:14] <jilocasin> it jhutchins: a user back on 20230303 logged in via ssh using a service account and installed gnome on to the server.  searching the dpkg logs and piping through grep let me to the fact that it was installed, marking the exact time, and translating the format in my head I found the compresses auth log for that time.  uncompressing it and looking for the exact time, to the second
[22:14] <jhutchins> Probably no difference, but it doesn't hurt to check.
[22:14] <jilocasin> revealed the account used.
[22:14] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, hehe, I'll give it a go
[22:15] <jhutchins> jilocasin: Is someone now duct taped to their chair?
[22:15] <leftyfb> jilocasin: you can use zgrep and zcat instead of having to uncompress the log file(s)
[22:15] <jhutchins> zless too.
[22:16] <jilocasin> leftyfb: thanks
[22:16] <jilocasin> jhutchins: as soon as I can find them, it's after hours here, and only crazies like myself are still working.
[22:16] <tomreyn> cryptonector: because you are using apt repositories which are not compatible to your ubuntu release
[22:18] <cryptonector> tomreyn: It's github actions, using ubuntu-18.04 (yes, I know) and I'm trying to install libcups2-dev
[22:19] <cryptonector> I'm not mokeying with apt repositories at all
[22:19] <jilocasin> the trick now is how do I *cleanly* uninstall gnome from the server without breaking anything.  when I'm on a desktop, I'm a KDE person myself.
[22:21] <tomreyn> cryptonector: there's probably a github support channel somewhere. i assume they don't use unmodified ubuntu installations, probably ahve a lot of different apt sources setup.
[22:22] <cryptonector> tomreyn: aight, thanks
[22:23] <cryptonector> but, curses at the debian packaging system -- one of the least user-friendly pieces of software
[22:23] <tomreyn> do you mean "ncurses"?
[22:24] <cryptonector> if I were trying to draw my cursing on a terminal, I'd use ncurses, but I'm biting my tongue here
[22:24] <MonsieurBon> jhutchins, no luck
[22:37] <cryptonector> tomreyn: so the problem seems to be this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tiff/+bug/1952957
[22:37] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 1952957 in tiff (Ubuntu) "libtiff-dev and libtiff-dev:i386 cannot be installed on ubuntu 18.04" [Undecided, New]
[22:38] <morgan-acer> I want to change the password on my keyring in 22.04 and I dont remember the keyring password. Now what? Google gave me lots of inappropriate answers.
[22:38] <EriC^^> MonsieurBon: does wiggling the plug help? try to push it downwards or raise it up
[22:39] <leftyfb> morgan-acer: your keyring password is the password you setup when you installed the machine or added the user. Unless you changed it.
[22:39] <MonsieurBon> EriC^^, nope, nothing
[22:40] <EriC^^> MonsieurBon: nothing in 'sudo dmesg -w' or 'udevadm monitor' when you plug it in?
[22:40] <morgan-acer> yes lefty, I changed it. I would not like to erase all the passwords in the keyring.
[22:40] <morgan-acer> if possible.
[22:40] <morgan-acer> leftyfb,
[22:41] <morgan-acer> but wait, there maybe be nothing there. What is stored in the keyring vs what passwords are stored in the browser?
[22:41] <tomreyn> cryptonector: i386 support is very limited nowadays
[22:41] <leftyfb> morgan-acer: to clarify, you do or do not want to delete the keyring?
[22:41] <cryptonector> tomreyn: I see
[22:42] <morgan-acer> I am going to google that.  ---  leftyb I would like to do it NOT deleting the keyring (AND I found a page explaining to rm the keyring, log out and log back in to reset the kring to the current paw.)
[22:43] <leftyfb> morgan-acer: the only way you unlock the keyring is by knowing the password
[22:44] <MonsieurBon> EriC^^, no, nothing.
[22:47] <morgan-acer> leftyfb, so the only way to get the keyring to use my new password is to remove the entire keyring. Will do.
[22:47] <leftyfb> morgan-acer: you will lose your keyring and all the words in it
[22:49] <morgan-acer> is there a way to change the password and keep what is in it?
[22:49] <morgan-acer> going to google those as search terms.  ))Otherwise, this:  delete login.keyring file
[22:49] <morgan-acer>     rm ~/.local/share/keyrings/login.keyring ((
[22:50] <leftyfb> morgan-acer: only by knowing the original password
[22:51] <morgan-acer> ok,
[22:55] <morgan-acer> done. next reboot's the charm. Thank you.
[23:03] <Sven_vB> hi :) I have two notebooks, both run Ubuntu focal with xfce. I tried to scan a letter with simple-scan. One one of them, the scanned image was just black. on the other, it showed up as expected. where should I start to try and find the difference?
[23:03] <Sven_vB> oh, I used the same USB scanner on both.
[23:07] <Sven_vB> maybe the ability to scan was lost with a kernel update. scan works on "Linux *** 5.8.0-44-lowlatency #50~20.04.1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Wed Feb 10 22:01:27 UTC 2021 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux". black page on "Linux *** 5.15.0-48-lowlatency #54~20.04.1-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Fri Sep 2 16:25:18 UTC 2022 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux"
[23:07] <dostoyevsky2> I have some Dockerfiles that start like `FROM ubuntu:<version>' ... IIUC as per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35166317 , those repositories are going to disappear... is there an replacement?
[23:10] <Sven_vB> dostoyevsky2, I think this is more of a #docker issue. My glass ball thinks that you should use the docker client to download all the images you need to your own infrastructure and find a way for docker to load them from there. This will also protect you against accidential or scheduled docker hub downtime in the future.
[23:12] <Sven_vB> dostoyevsky2, I think there are also cache proxies that act as a docker hub. you can probably configure them to cache the necessary files forever. it's always a good idea to test how your means of production will behave if they are temporarily disconnected from the web.
[23:22] <Sven_vB> dostoyevsky2, the blog article linked at top of that thread also lists some workarounds. maybe some work for you.


[03:15] <ZykoticK9> When will !info in #ubuntu report Lucid packages by default?
[03:16] <nhandler> ZykoticK9: I believe it has already been updated to use lucid. I just tested it in PM
[03:21] <ZykoticK9> nhandler, at 22:13 "<ubottu> Package lamp-server does not exist in karmic" in #ubuntu -- yet PMing it now replies Lucid
[03:31] <nhandler> ZykoticK9: Hmm...I'm not sure. It responds using lucid by default in PM and in another channel. It also works fine if you specify lucid. I'll try and figure out what is going on for you
[03:31] <ZykoticK9> nhandler, i actually also tried apache2 in the channel a few moments after my initial post, which didn't return any version info
[03:32] <nhandler> ZykoticK9: It returned 21:16:42 < ubottu> apache2 (source: apache2): Apache HTTP Server metapackage. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.12-1ubuntu2.2 (karmic), package size 1 kB, installed size 36 kB
[03:32] <nhandler> (that was in response to your !info command)
[03:34] <ZykoticK9> nhandler, no version info - Lucid Karmic etc
[03:37] <ZykoticK9> nhandler, could you do one more test in channel with lamp-server - could it be that unknown packages are returning karmic in the channel?
[03:38] <nhandler> ZykoticK9: That wouldn't explain why !info apache2 returned the karmic version.
[03:39] <ZykoticK9> nhandler, apache2 doesn't return karmic, it doesn't have a version (which I'm assuming is the new default for !info command)
[03:39] <nhandler> ZykoticK9: Yes it did. It returned "Version 2.2.12-1ubuntu2.2 (karmic)"
[03:40] <ZykoticK9> nhandler, sorry my mistake.  i see the reply in #ubuntu and it clearly says karmic.  sorry
[12:09] <erUSUL> !intelhda
[15:58] <Damascene> hi,
[15:58] <Damascene> have any one thought on making the support channel based on the problem kind?
[15:59] <Damascene> there is 1782 currently in #ubutnu and the chance of any one getting help is rare
[15:59] <tsimpson> Damascene: yes, see bug #392799
[15:59] <Damascene> that will help users to get specialized support
[15:59] <Damascene> ok
[16:10] <Damascene> is there a wiki page to sort the useful idea out of that bug report?
[16:12] <gnomefreak> what bug report. sorry if i missed something i just got here
[16:12] <Pici> bug #392799
[16:13] <gnomefreak> again it comes up
[16:13] <Pici> Its been a few months
[16:14] <gnomefreak> if its what im thinking of it is revisted every release
[16:14] <gnomefreak> it is
[16:14] <Damascene> I think that bug should be organized on a wiki page
[16:15] <Damascene> list advantage and disadvantage of every idea
[16:19] <gnomefreak> well i dont really see a good way of going about this. for example comment#2 is more noisy than it would be now. if in PM or channel. the php solutions would have to change every client eh
[16:21] <Pici> Some require a complete overhaul of IRC, thats not really something we can do
[16:22] <gnomefreak> i would say at best we set up a limit and use a overflow channel
[16:22] <gnomefreak> splitting #ubuntu into #ubuntu-
[16:22] <gnomefreak> * is not helpful ort organized
[16:22] <bazhang> and regular /advanced
[16:22] <k1l> i like the idea, that the main channel is a loadbalancer. like mentioned in comment#3
[16:23] <Pici> The problem is that every release we get more and more people idling in the channel.  We'd have to keep tweaking the limit
[16:24] <gnomefreak> well as it stands our IRC clients(GUI) join one ther the support channels. re routing people when they first log on is not the best way and if we move them to basic/medium/advanced it is still causing alot of noise there
[16:24] <Damascene> people who can help will be in both channels
[16:24] <Pici> Damascene: And a lot of people will ask their questions in both channels.
[16:24] <bazhang> well my issues are advanced
[16:26] <Damascene> as bazhang said. it might be based on the level of the question
[16:26] <gnomefreak> Damascene: if only it was that true
[16:27] <bazhang> Damascene, everyone will think their issues are advanced, whether true or not
[16:27] <gnomefreak> you now have people asking the same question in 3 + channels
[16:27] <Damascene> one day I've played trivia game on an irc channel. it asks questions and give you feedback
[16:27] <Damascene> that would be easy to do
[16:27] <gnomefreak> -1 @ having bot decide why pinging you
[16:28] <gnomefreak> playing 25 questions with bot -> user is more noise than what we have atm
[16:32] <gnomefreak> comment 44 so far looks the most reasonable but im not done reading
[16:35] <gnomefreak> any chance on this being brought up at a current meeting?
[16:38] <Pici> gnomefreak: add it to the agenda
[16:41]  * gnomefreak missed last meeting by an hour or so so im not sure how old the agenda is atm. I would also like an idea on this topic before i add it. i will think about it while im here and before i leave i should have an update for it
[16:44]  * gnomefreak goes for smoke a
[16:44] <gnomefreak> -a
[16:49] <gnomefreak> Pici: what if we started out small. for example having people join thier respective support channels kubuntu ubuntu xubuntu edubuntu ect...
[16:50] <gnomefreak> #ubuntu has been and still is a gerneal catchall
[16:50] <Pici> gnomefreak: I don't think that the channel needs to be split.  And turning it into a place where we just tell people to join elsewhere is not a solution to me.
[16:51] <gnomefreak> Pici: i can see that point but than why do we have all of them open? isnt it to get support by brand? xubuntu gets no where near the abount of people asking or helping that kubuntu gets and so on
[16:53] <Pici> gnomefreak: We usually end up pointing people to them when they have DE specific issues.
[16:53] <gnomefreak> 1794 isnt that much more than KK release
[16:57] <gnomefreak> i dont see any reason to split channels and never really did unless it is for an issue the highly advanced people should handle example #ubuntu-mozillateam
[16:57] <gnomefreak> by helping with alot of people our devel topics get lost
[16:57] <Damascene> maybe because you didn't try to ask question in the channel
[16:58] <gnomefreak> Damascene: what do you mena?
[16:58] <gnomefreak> mean
[16:59] <Damascene> "i dont see any reason to split channels"
[16:59] <gnomefreak> Damascene: i ask and support people in the channels, i know how bad it can get
[16:59] <Damascene> I just was in ubuntu-devel and some one came and asked about thinkpad problem
[17:00] <Damascene> I told him to go to #ubuntu knowing that he will get lost there
[17:00] <gnomefreak> Damascene: someone should have told him *-dev channels do not offer support
[17:00] <gnomefreak> why not send him to one of the other channels example #kubuntu users use thinkpads
[17:00] <gnomefreak> its not a s anoisey there
[17:00] <gnomefreak> as noisy
[17:02] <gnomefreak> fall backs we have: ubuntu forum channels (like 4 or 5 of them) not to mention the ubuntuforums site kubuntu xubuntu ect... there is a sound channel and so on. but breaking it down much more than that will just hurt more than it helps
[17:03] <gnomefreak> shuffling poeple around will in fact get them lost ;)
[17:03] <gnomefreak> people dont read topics so we cant really use that to do much with
[17:04] <Damascene> force them to do
[17:04] <Damascene> use voice
[17:04] <Damascene> bot
[17:04] <Damascene> what ever
[17:05] <bazhang> sounds like a tremendous amount of work
[17:05] <gnomefreak> i agree
[17:05] <bazhang> for essentially zero gain
[17:05] <gnomefreak> now you see why we havent changed it since it first came up with Dapper release
[17:05] <bazhang> yep
[17:06] <Damascene> could you get upstream help?
[17:07] <gnomefreak> no matter how i have looked at it i can not find a gerneally good solution. That is not even bringing into the ops as a factor
[17:07] <gnomefreak> upstream IRC help?
[17:07] <Damascene> no, package help
[17:07] <Damascene> like grub and xorg
[17:08] <gnomefreak> Damascene: sometimes but our packages dont meet upstreams packaging for a lot of them
[17:09] <gnomefreak> and lets say there are over 100000 channels in freenode, do we ship them all over the placve and have them return since they mention Ubuntu with thier question
[17:09] <gnomefreak> sort of like what Debian would do/does/or has done
[17:11] <gnomefreak> irssi help in #irssi is good no matter what distro you are using same with #smart but we dont have channels for everything and that is not ideal
[17:12] <Damascene> debian asks people to go to upstream channel?
[17:12] <gnomefreak> bazhang: Pici the idea of overflow channels i got from #freenode channel when it spills over, i couldnt recall where that came from
[17:12] <gnomefreak> Damascene: no they send ubuntu users to ubuntu channels
[17:13] <gnomefreak> not to mentoin you are only allowed a max of 20 channels to be in at once.
[17:14] <bazhang> 120
[17:14] <Damascene> usually the conversation goes between two or there people. having backup channel were you just invite people seems good idea
[17:14] <gnomefreak> bazhang: only if asked for
[17:14] <Damascene> *three
[17:14] <bazhang> gnomefreak, nope
[17:14] <Damascene> and leaving the main channel for new people
[17:14] <bazhang> new services is 120
[17:14] <gnomefreak> bazhang: i had to get +u IIRC
[17:14] <bazhang> on old services yes
[17:15] <gnomefreak> oh
[17:15] <bazhang> :)
[17:15]  * gnomefreak wonders how many channels each client will use before it blows up ;)
[17:15] <bazhang> way too much crossposting, and shuffling people between channels. a most inefficient use of resources
[17:16] <gnomefreak> right
[17:16] <bazhang> just dont /list :)
[17:16] <gnomefreak> ive done that once it wont ever hapen again
[17:16] <bazhang> plus if they get conflicting advice even more of a headache
[17:16]  * gnomefreak ignored the warning
[17:17] <Damascene> let me explain something.
[17:17] <bazhang> wait! person in ubuntu-regular told me this! (in -advanced)
[17:17] <gnomefreak> :)
[17:17] <bazhang> crosschannel confusion and crossposting mayhem
[17:18] <Damascene> let it be 3 channels. with some people from ubutnu on each. user put his problem in ubuntu pastebin go with it to the channel
[17:18] <gnomefreak> people are aware of the fact that just because we have ~1800 users in a channel that less than 1/4th of them are talking
[17:18] <Damascene> if he didn't do that no one looks at it
[17:18] <bazhang> if that
[17:18] <gnomefreak> Damascene: people dont know how to use pastebin
[17:18] <Damascene> if there is any useful information he just add it
[17:18] <bazhang> people do that now
[17:18] <Damascene> gnomefreak, teach them :)
[17:19] <tsimpson> Damascene: you want a forum ;)
[17:19] <gnomefreak> Damascene: we have been for many years
[17:19] <bazhang> crosspost to many channels, wait for 5 seconds, then repeat
[17:19] <tsimpson> it's exactly what you describe
[17:19] <bazhang> 'well I got no answer in channel x'
[17:19] <gnomefreak> if you want i can give you a list of the forum channels alo tof them are quite
[17:20] <bazhang> the helpers are in all or most of the channels as it is
[17:21] <bazhang> even -offtopic
[17:21] <gnomefreak> example of what you may be looking for in the way of channels #ubuntuforums @#ubuntuforums-beginners  #ubuntuforums-unanswered
[17:22]  * gnomefreak didnt know i had @ in them
[17:22] <bazhang> :0
[17:22] <gnomefreak> but either way they are pretty much quite and they can help just as much
[17:23] <gnomefreak> plus they know the posts to the forums :)
[17:23] <bazhang> many are admins of the forums iirc
[17:24]  * gnomefreak thinks that is the only good solution. there are some. i sign into my forums account once ever few months
[17:24] <gnomefreak> make one post and poof log out
[17:25] <bazhang> nine times out of ten, when waiting for answer on irc, a quick ubuntu issuehere leads to a ubuntuforums link
[17:25] <bazhang> err websearch
[17:26] <gnomefreak> almost any issue you can think of has been posted ojn ubuntuforums or another forum likje linuxusers
[17:26] <gnomefreak> like
[17:26]  * gnomefreak stopping coreccting my typos they are way too often now
[17:29] <gnomefreak> maybe we should post some of this to the bug report. but once again this has been going on since Dapper if not before and with Dapper unlesss there is a good idea on how to do this with very little disruption i dont see any reason this bug should be open.
[17:29] <Damascene> using a place were user can put information in is really useful. then user will present a link instead of asking the same question over and over
[17:29] <gnomefreak> key word -- disruption
[17:30] <gnomefreak> Damascene: please see ubuntuforums.com :) post there and give link to channel. it will be the same as it is now except more users on the forums will help you rather than channel
[17:31] <gnomefreak> m,ore people look at forums than that are on freenode
[17:32] <Damascene> freenode is more effective. you can get respond faster
[17:32] <Damascene> that sounds good any way
[17:33] <Damascene> it should be a small irc bug system
[17:33] <gnomefreak> Damascene: not always. but different people look at forums than IRC
[17:33] <bazhang> don't know about that; mailing lists and ubuntuforums get answered pretty darned quick
[17:33] <gnomefreak> forums is not and was never ment to replace IRC or vice versa it is strickly of a wider user base
[17:34] <Damascene> bug #33434
[17:34] <Damascene> see
[17:34] <Damascene> it should be something like that
[17:34] <Damascene> but problem #1
[17:34] <bazhang> #ubuntu ?
[17:34] <gnomefreak> that is a bug report.
[17:34] <Damascene> and you get information on it
[17:35]  * gnomefreak jumps on this train now that it has gone off the road
[17:35] <bazhang> used to be iirc
[17:35] <bazhang> then switched to development/unreleased channels only
[17:35] <gnomefreak> if by information you mean Invalid than yes works like it should
[17:36] <gnomefreak> ok ill be back not that i am lost. if all goes well
[17:36] <Damascene> I mean irc user should have a simple place to describe there problem in
[17:36] <Damascene> and they should be able to add info
[17:36] <Damascene> but it shouldn't be like a forum
[17:37] <Damascene> it's more like pastebin
[17:37] <bazhang> like ubuntu-bug?
[17:37] <Damascene> like bugs but simpler
[17:38] <bazhang> ?
[17:39] <Damascene> like a small forum you enter some information in. distro package
[17:39] <Damascene> type of the problem
[17:39] <Damascene> then you come to irc with that problem and people will be able to help you faster
[17:39] <bazhang> link forums and irc?
[17:39] <Damascene> not forum
[17:39] <Damascene> but that might work
[17:40] <bazhang> 'like a small forum'
[17:40] <Damascene> yes
[17:40] <Damascene> but no registration required
[17:40] <bazhang> google wave?
[17:40] <Damascene> and user should put some useful information there
[17:40] <Damascene> what is that?
[17:40] <bazhang> sounds like what you are proposing
[17:46] <Damascene> no it's not google wave
[17:46] <Damascene> it's just pastebin with some button to chose distribution and some other choice menu
[17:46] <Damascene> small bug system for irc and forum help
[17:47] <bazhang> replacing launchpad as well?
[17:47] <Damascene> :)
[17:47] <Damascene> lauchpad for software bugs
[17:47] <tsimpson> maybe you mean answers.launchpad.net ?
[17:47] <erUSUL> Damascene: i know what i do when people link me a pastebin or forum post; most of the time i ignore it
[17:47] <bazhang> the odds of that are between nil and zero
[17:47] <erUSUL> !here
[17:48] <Damascene> bazhang, what I'm suggesting is place were a place to gather some useful information so you get better help
[17:48] <Damascene> not bugs about software
[17:48] <bazhang> nice factoid :)
[17:49] <erUSUL> bazhang:  not mine ;)
[17:50] <Damascene> any one got my idea?
[17:51] <erUSUL> Damascene: i think, but as i said if someoen only do... please look here: « url » ; please please please; help me
[17:51] <erUSUL> Damascene: i will most likely ignore them
[17:51] <gnomefreak> wiki pages are there to help others if i am understanding you correctly
[17:51] <Damascene> erUSUL, I just brought an example
[17:52] <Damascene> user will only have to put
[17:52] <Damascene> problem #1
[17:52] <Damascene> like bug #1
[17:52] <erUSUL> Damascene: launchpad answers ?
[17:53] <Damascene> no
[17:53] <Damascene> a thing for irc
[17:53] <Damascene> simple and fast
[17:54] <Damascene> pastbin were you ask what ever in your mind
[17:54] <Damascene> if you open launchpad answer for that it will get double size in every day :)
[17:55] <gnomefreak> mailing lists?
[17:58] <erUSUL> Pici: nice post release blog post again ;) congrats
[17:59] <Damascene> gnomefreak, no
[18:00] <Damascene> oh my god. was me explanation too poor
[18:00] <Damascene> *my
[18:00] <gnomefreak> .:12:54:04:. <       Damascene > pastbin were you ask what ever in your mind
[18:00] <gnomefreak> ^^ not all that helpful
[18:00] <Damascene> :D
[18:02] <erUSUL> Damascene: what you describe is just too similar to already existing solutions ... imho
[18:03] <Damascene> not really
[18:03] <Damascene> there should be a bot for it like lauchpad one
[18:03] <Damascene> gives you pref information about it
[18:04] <erUSUL> Damascene: the metabot project of LjL was meant to attack this bug
[18:05] <Damascene> problem #3927
 user problem 3927 with grub "I get error number 13" [not answered,In progress] https://ircproblems.launchpad.net/392799
[18:06] <Damascene> the bot could give more information thought
[18:06] <gnomefreak> can do that in a channel as it defeats the purpose of too noisy thing
[18:06] <gnomefreak> s/can/cant
[18:08] <Damascene> maybe it another idea not related to the noisy thing :(
[18:08] <Damascene> :)
[18:08] <gnomefreak> doesnt matter if you or we thinks it is related as others will think it is
[18:09] <Damascene> it can help reducing the problem
[18:09] <bazhang> of noise?
[18:09] <Damascene> and it will help with splitting users based on problem type
[18:10] <gnomefreak> no it doesnt it adds to it
[18:10] <bazhang> exactly
[18:10] <Damascene> how could it add?
[18:10] <bazhang> many bot info spam
[18:11] <Damascene> brb
[18:11] <gnomefreak> Damascene: instead of users "a" saying this is my issue not user b"b does the same. for each users you now have 2 replies just from asking 1 thing
[18:11] <bazhang> thought the whole issue was 'too noisy, can't get help'
[18:11] <gnomefreak> person a =="this is issue" bot will than report that as well
[18:12] <bazhang> seems to completely remove the human element from irc
[18:12] <gnomefreak> we have a bot channel please feel free to play
[18:13] <gnomefreak> oops pretend that was a bot reply
[18:15] <gnomefreak> oh and if we do that than others may want us to add ubuntuforums to bot as well
[18:26] <Pici> erUSUL: what?
[18:26] <erUSUL> Silent number is not your blog ?
[18:26] <Pici> nope
[18:26] <Pici> http://nullcortex.com
[18:27] <Pici> And I didn't finish writing mine.
[18:27]  * erUSUL ouch
[19:20] <erUSUL> !buttons
[19:23] <Pici> !controls
[19:23] <Pici> erUSUL: ^^
[19:23] <erUSUL> Pici: tyvm
[20:08] <AcePreshaw> ikonia