[00:19] <misterno> arcetera why is dist-upgrade needed
[00:19] <misterno> ive seen it here http://www.noobslab.com/2015/05/upgradeinstall-kde-plasma-53-in-kubuntu.html
[00:19] <arcetera> otherwise plasma fails to start
[00:20] <misterno> but when i did those commands dist-upgrade said nothing to be done
[00:20] <unascribed> dist-upgrade is okay with removing packages
[00:20] <unascribed> upgrade is not
[00:21] <unascribed> it can also install new things if needed
[00:21] <misterno> for me update command updated then running dist-upgrade just said 0 pgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not ugpraded
[00:22] <arcetera> huh
[00:22] <arcetera> i needed dist-upgrade for me
[00:22] <misterno> but now i lost applet in settings about info
[00:22] <arcetera> kwin was somehow gone...?
[00:22] <misterno> how do i find out if im actually using plasma 5.3
[00:22] <arcetera> i like the new thin titlebar icons tho
[00:23] <misterno> hmm i didnt notice anything different yet upgrading from plasma 5.2
[00:23] <arcetera> its mostly performance
[00:23] <misterno> thats even better
[00:23] <arcetera> also new icons for things which were ugly before
[00:23] <arcetera> like
[00:23] <arcetera> kmail
[00:23] <misterno> im all for more performance, specially running it in VM
[00:24] <misterno> do you have "info" applet in settings now?
[00:24] <misterno> i swear i had it before
[00:24] <arcetera> oh yeah
[00:24] <arcetera> it's gone for me too
[00:24] <arcetera> oh well
[00:24] <misterno> how can i find if im actually using plasma 5.3?
[00:25] <arcetera> ok
[00:25] <arcetera> open Kickoff and type "KMail"
[00:25] <arcetera> kickoff being the start menu in kde
[00:25] <arcetera> what icon does it use
[00:25] <misterno> oh thats called kickoff, i was wondering...
[00:26] <misterno> http://s9.postimg.org/c38qjxkm7/screenshot_4.png
[00:27] <arcetera> you have 5.3
[00:27] <arcetera> 5.2 has a different icon
[00:28] <misterno> im slightly confused, what is KDE and what is Plasma now, KDE is clearly some K desktop environment, but i thought Plasma was also desktop environment
[00:28] <misterno> im sorry im such newb
[00:29] <unascribed> KDE is no longer the "K Desktop Environment"
[00:29] <unascribed> it's now just KDE
[00:30] <unascribed> KDE encompasses all the KDE projects, including Plasma Workspaces, Frameworks, Applications, etc
[00:35] <misterno> ohhh i just figured out you can select icons by clicking in top left corner, there is barely visible red crosshair
[00:35] <misterno> i was like how do you work with files if single click opens files and folders
[00:43] <arcetera> misterno sorry for the late reply, but plasma is the de
[00:43] <arcetera> kde is ALL apps
[00:43] <arcetera> Konversation, Amarok, KWin
[00:43] <arcetera> etc
[00:43] <misterno> i see
[00:43] <misterno> desktop can be considered like one of apps
[00:43] <arcetera> yeah
[00:44] <arcetera> they switched it to Plasma rather than just KDE as of 4.0 as KDE has become much more than just a desktop
[00:44] <arcetera> KDE is now more of an organization than a DE
[00:44] <arcetera> and the full KDE Suite is KDE SC
[00:49] <misterno> arcetera is there anything you recommend installing from repositories?
[00:49] <misterno> vlc maybe
[00:49] <arcetera> why not
[00:49] <misterno> which browser you use, firefox?
[00:52] <arcetera> chromium
[01:55] <caliculk> Actually I found something on superuser regarding my issue: http://superuser.com/questions/946206/kde-plasma-5-no-taskbar-and-cant-right-click-desktop
[01:55] <caliculk> But I don't see a plasmashell app or command anywhere.
[01:57] <caliculk> Actually, it seems like kde5 plasma5 files aren't fully loaded on my system. :/
[01:57] <caliculk> I am missing quite a bit of things in my home folder
[02:00] <misterno> did you do apt-add-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa
[02:00] <misterno> apt-get update
[02:00] <misterno> apt-get upgrade
[02:01] <misterno> that's for plasma 5.3 but it seems buggy and not stable
[02:01] <misterno> probably better to stick with 5.2
[02:03] <caliculk> Well, I am on plasma 5.2 and I am having all these issues.
[02:03] <caliculk> I will try adding the ppa though, I am just using ubuntu-server's repos
[02:06] <misterno> i had no issues on 5.2 installed straight from iso, but when i added repositories and upgraded now i do get quite a few crashes of plasma
[02:08] <caliculk> Well, I don't really have the option to install overtop of my Ubuntu Server installation
[02:09] <caliculk> If I even try to start plasma shell, I get the following: $ sudo plasmashell / QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display
[02:11] <caliculk> Well, I did make some headway, I can right click on the desktop now. However, I still have no taskbar.
[02:18] <misterno> sorry for your troubles, i would love to help you but im new to linux.kubuntu
[02:37] <AndroUser> Oh dear kubuntu 15.04, you've done wondrous things to my pc life, but mostly made them annoying to me...
[02:38] <misterno> xD
[02:44] <AndroUser> Halp...
[02:45] <AndroUser> Halp
[02:45] <Bomber> I'm in a login loop
[02:46] <Bomber> 😢
[02:48] <Bomber> Sorry, phone's Irc app keeps crashin
[02:48] <Bomber3> I still need halp to fix login loop
[03:03] <Bomber3> Any help?
[03:11] <Bomber3> 😧
[03:17] <bomber> Help! I need somebody! 😂
[03:47] <bomber> Can anyone help me here?
[03:58] <bomber> Anyone..?
[04:53] <bomber> I'm going nuts.. Anyone here to help?
[06:05] <misterno> when i search for packages, like VLC in Muon Discover i get to page but install button is greyed out
[06:05] <misterno> anyone knows why?
[06:09] <lordievader> Good morning.
[06:09] <misterno> morning
[07:51] <Neo9> if UBUNTU server with working static network configuration is suddenly disconnected and not able to reach the Gateway. How can i debug? Can any one please help on this.
[07:52] <lordievader> Neo9: This is more for #ubuntu-server, but anyways, check if you still have an ip and if the routes are correct.
[07:56] <Neo9> lordievader: i have posted in ubuntu-server and did not get any replay.  Routing table is fine in't not changed and compared with my backup configurations.
[09:25] <frenda> I'm using Fedora22+Plasma
[09:26] <frenda> Here, `Plank` which is a dock, crashes if you move icons! it's closed unexpectedly!
[09:26] <frenda> I want know to see is it same on kubuntu?
[11:06] <alvin> Wat is `Plank`?
[11:08] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[11:20] <mparillo> alvin: I have not tried it, but: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/01/how-to-add-a-dock-to-ubuntu-desktop-plank
[11:21] <mparillo> I do not see the point, as I can slide application icons to my panel, but maybe somebody can enlighten us.
[11:23] <alvin> Yes, you can right click and use 'show launcher' and so on. This is something else, but it doesn't interest me. frenda is right about the 'closes unexpectedly' though. Happens too much.
[11:23] <alvin> Firefox has the same problem. Even on Windows. It often crashes when I try to close it.
[11:24] <alvin> Speaking of Firefox, since it is the default browser in Kubuntu. Can we expect better KDE integration? Like recognising what programs to use for opening certain filetypes.
[11:25] <TJ-> alvin: that is a long-standing firefox bug due to the way it internally handles mime types
[11:26] <alvin> TJ, Ow, thanks for the answer. I didn't find this on Launchpad and filed a bug about it last week. Nobody reacted yet.
[11:26] <TJ-> alvin: I was working on it in the Firefox code about 6 years ago, or more. The code was a mess and even the dev's that created it got lost, so the thing got left
[11:27] <alvin> We've had Konqueror and Rekonq as KDE browsers, but apparently they're not better than Firefox, since it has been the default for some releases.
[11:28] <alvin> I actually like Firefox, because it is cross-platform, but things like that are weird. Didn't expect the code to be a mess.
[11:31] <BluesKaj> I gave up on FF after many yr, however I still keep it around, but chrome is my default now despite all the negative publicity about privacy
[11:32] <TJ-> alvin: From 2008.  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=455626  and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=444440
[11:32] <alvin> That's the main reason I'm not using Chrome. That and the fact that Firefox is the only browser on Android with an ad blocker. Which reminds me I have yet to find a solution on Sailfish.
[11:32] <TJ-> alvin: "Fixed" doesn't mean it works as we expect, unfortunately
[11:33] <alvin> TJ-: Indeed. It's exactly this. 'unexpected application'. I mean, Firefox tries to open .odt files with Gwenview. Or Krita. Or .zip files with Okular. And so on... It really is unexpected behaviour.
[11:34] <BluesKaj> well, I don't need a gossip gadget, an ordinary cellphone works for me.
[11:36] <alvin> What's a gossip gadget?
[11:36] <BluesKaj> alvin:  uhm , have you treid the file association settings?
[11:36] <alvin> BluesKaj: Of course!
[11:36] <TJ-> alvin: in the discussion on  444440 it emerges 2 core devs worked on it and couldn't fix it and let the patches drop for 4 years. That says a lot about the inherited code in FF is incomprehensible now. I found it countains so many workarounds for various issues on different platforms that changing 1 small part causes regressions elsewhere.
[11:37] <BluesKaj> gossip gadget aka so called smart phone
[11:37] <alvin> Right :-)
[11:37] <alvin> Well, I liked my N900. It was a linux computer with keyboard and ssh. Great stuff.
[11:38] <BluesKaj> quoting models without a brandname doesn't do muchj either :-)
[11:39] <alvin> Bug 1481222 is what I filed
[11:39] <alvin> BluesKaj: Oh, N900 was the only Nokia Maemo phone. Could have said Maemo of course. Same goes now for Sailfish. There's only one model.
[11:40] <alvin> I also once ordered the 'Vivaldi tablet'. Remember that one? KDE tablet.
[11:41] <alvin> pre-ordered I mean. There never was a Vivaldi tablet.
[11:41] <BluesKaj> nope
[11:41] <alvin> With 'Kubuntu Active'. Don't know if that is actually still active.
[11:43] <alvin> Are there no efforts to rewrite parts of Firefox then? I remember Phoenix? That was a lean browser. I don't know if it would even be possible nowadays for a small project like that. Browsers need to be able to do much, much more.
[11:50] <BluesKaj> for one thing, once websites accept that HTML5 is superior to flash (or so i've been told) then browsing will be easier for everyone, and perhaps the fact that Adobe is dropping support for flash on linux is a the thin edge of the wedge
[11:58] <alvin> 'has dropped years ago', but I still see it. And if you don't install Flash, Kubuntu will recommend you to do so every time you log in.
[12:00] <TJ-> at log-in? never seen that
[12:00] <BluesKaj> neither have I
[12:00] <mparillo> Qupzilla is Qt based, though not a KDE project. Is anybody using it?
[12:00] <BluesKaj> that's new to me . mparillo
[12:02] <alvin> Yes, I didn't install Flash and there's a message in the system tray asking me to do it. Maybe it's only when you use Firefox?
[12:03] <alvin> mparillo: I've heard of it, but didn't try it.
[12:06] <mparillo> I did a few months ago, and spell-check did not work, which is pretty much a fail for me. The version in our repositories is 183; current is 186.
[12:13] <TJ-> alvin: I've never seen that, and I don't have flash installed.
[12:19] <BluesKaj> TJ-:  what do you do about flash heavy sites ?
[12:20] <TJ-> how do you mean?
[12:21] <BluesKaj> do you avoid them or just not choose to watch the video portion?
[12:21] <TJ-> They don't get my custom
[12:22] <BluesKaj> sorry??
[12:54] <alvin> Same. I avoid Flash sites.
[12:55] <TJ-> I rarely see the value in video content. The Shannon information content is usually vanishingly small compared to text or a diagram
[12:58] <mparillo> I fire up chrome when I absolutely need flash, and do not enable flash in any other browser, but I agree: I seldom find I need to do so, and 90% of what I accidently miss is advertorial at best.
[13:01] <BluesKaj> mparillo:  intersting how heavy computer users become so creative with the English language , there's a new word, "advertorial" :-)
[13:14]  * alvin likes it
[13:24] <TJ-> BluesKaj: In the U.K. at least, that term has been used since at least the 1990s to refer to newspaper adverts placed as editorial commentary
[13:26] <BluesKaj> TJ-:  ok , so it's not new, i stand corrected
[13:26] <TJ-> BluesKaj: maybe it is coming back into fashion ?
[13:27] <TJ-> Here comes the new King... just like the old King
[13:27] <BluesKaj> we don't see much of that in Northern Ontario ...English in the papers is pretty plain here
[14:50] <mr-rich> Ok ... this xorg memory leak is really starting to piss me off ... time for a better supported/non propriatary video card ... currently using an AMD Radeon 5700 ... any suggestions?
[14:51] <soee> oh no idea, never used any amd card :)
[15:01] <alem> So I have a bit of a new problem. Last night, I went about reinstalling 15.04 to fix all the problems my upgade had, I copied some of the /etc/ files over and setup my /home directory to be on the same drive as the previous one, and now I have noticed that when I restart the machine, I am booted into recovery mode with root. I am not sure if it is single user mode or something else, but my machine will not boot up
[15:02] <alem> Looking at /var/log/syslog, I don't see anything noticeable, and because my drives are mounted in ro mode, I can't edit anything straight off the bat to try and fix it
[15:03] <TJ-> alem: "mount -o remount,rw /"
[15:05] <alem> It looks like if I do journalctf -xb, it can't "ACPI PCC probe failed" and further on, it claims it "Failed to start Remount Boot and Kernel Final System"
[15:14] <alem> TJ, alright, it involved a little more work, it seems that the UUID was replaced for the root drive.  However, I also notice something very peculiar, if I try to login into KDE with my main user from the graphical interface it fails, but if I type out startx, I am logged in no problem.
[15:14] <TJ-> alem: "ACPI PCC probe failed" is expected and can me ignored; it's just an info message that has since been silenced
[15:15] <alem> Hm, nevermid, it isn't doing it now. It ws doing it last night though.
[16:20] <vasili111> Hi guys! I am experimenting with Kubuntu in VMware. I just installed the Kubuntu. I cant find ithe menues any software for aditional software installation. How to install additional software from repo?
[16:21] <soee> try muon discover
[16:22] <vasili111> soee: Where I can find it? How can I launch it?
[16:23] <lordievader> vasili111: Likely: alt + f2 -> discover -> enter
[16:23] <soee> +1
[16:25] <vasili111> soee: I fond it, thank you. It is strange that there are no icon of Muon in K menues
[16:26] <soee> vasili111: im sure there is
[16:27] <soee> vasili111: check in System section
[16:27] <vasili111> soee: Thank you:) Found there too :)
[17:05] <BluesKaj> !eol
[17:13] <[Relic]> Would anyone know if Kubuntu 15.04 saves sessions automatically yet?  Do the applications open on each different virtual desktop reopen on the proper desktop after restart/shutdown & reboot?
[17:25] <piendi> Hey
[18:15] <ik_> hi
[18:30] <vasili111> I want to instal Compiz but when I serach in Muon I only get "Compiz Fusion Icon" and "CompizConfig Settings Manager" and no Compiz. Maybe I need aditionals sources links to Muon or maybe something else?
[18:34] <TJ-> vasili111: "apt-cache search -n compiz"
[18:51] <vasili111> anyone?
[18:54] <sithlord48> vasili111:  there is a compiz package.. try apt search compiz  you can't find it in muon discover because that only shows gui programs
[18:56] <misterno> where are downloaded wallpapers kept in kubuntu
[18:56] <misterno> it seems very hidden
[18:57] <sithlord48> from get new stuff or kde-wallpapers package?
[18:57] <misterno> from get new stuff
[18:57] <misterno> there is kde wallpapers package?
[18:57] <sithlord48> its the default wallpapers for kde itself
[18:57] <misterno> i can find default ones
[18:57] <misterno> in usr/shared
[18:58] <misterno> but downloaded ones are hidden
[18:58] <sithlord48> ~/.kde/share/wallpapers
[18:58] <sithlord48> ~/ is your home folder if you don't know
[18:59] <misterno> where do you see .kde folder?
[18:59] <misterno> im on kubuntu 15.04
[18:59] <sithlord48> /home/<username>/.kde
[18:59] <sithlord48> maybe for plasama 5 it might be ~/.kde5
[19:00] <misterno> that's not folder structure i see in 15.04
[19:00] <misterno> are you talking about home in root?
[19:00] <sithlord48> no your users home folder..
[19:00] <sithlord48> give me a second im checking my plasma5 install
[19:01] <misterno> isn't that home in root?
[19:01] <vasili111> sithlord48: So all non gui programs I have to install only with terminal? Any gui software for it?
[19:01] <misterno> it goes root > home > username > and then folder structure is like windows
[19:01] <misterno> ill show you screenshot
[19:01] <sithlord48> vasili111:  because muon discover works that way . install the package muon
[19:01] <misterno> http://s9.postimg.org/m4dkt8xpb/screenshot_7.png
[19:01] <sithlord48> vasili111: sudo apt install muon
[19:02] <sithlord48> vasili111:  will give you the muon package manager that will show all packages including non gui
[19:02] <sithlord48> misterno:  right click where is says home i  then select "edit"
[19:02] <misterno> and
[19:02] <sithlord48> you can then type a path OR use alt + . to show hidden folders
[19:03] <vasili111> sithlord48: "sudo apt install muon" or "sudo apt-get install muon"?
[19:03] <sithlord48> vasili111:  don't matter
[19:03] <misterno> sithlord48 i really dont understand how i can use alt+ , to show hidden folders
[19:04] <vasili111> misterno: what is the difference between them?
[19:04] <sithlord48> click on dolphin and press teh key combo of alt+.
[19:04] <misterno> ye but initiatlly you said to use edit on home and THEN to use alt+.
[19:04] <vasili111> sithlord48: what is the difference between them?
[19:04] <misterno> now i see where i use alt+.
[19:04] <sithlord48> vasili111:  apt-get is old apt is newer unfinished
[19:05] <misterno> why konsole isnt showing hidden files?
[19:05] <sithlord48> misterno:  ls by defalut doesn't show hidden files.
[19:05] <misterno> im actually using dir command but ok :)
[19:06] <sithlord48> misterno: ls -a will show hidden files
[19:06] <misterno> and folders?
[19:06] <misterno> hidden
[19:06] <vasili111> sithlord48: I installed compiz. How can I launch it?
[19:06] <sithlord48> vasili111:  last time i used it was compiz --repalce
[19:06] <misterno> ok so im in.kde but i dont see wallpapers there
[19:07] <sithlord48> vasili111:  idk how well its gonna work with kde or why you would use compiz instead of kwin
[19:07] <sithlord48> misterno:  perhaps its been moved for plasma5
[19:07] <misterno> is there a search that can find file
[19:08] <sithlord48> you can use the find command or in dolphin there is a find also
[19:08] <sithlord48> misterno: dolphin command is crtl+f
[19:08] <misterno> oh wait i must hit alt+. for every single folder to show hidden files and folders?
[19:08] <vasili111> sithlord48: What is kwin?
[19:08] <misterno> cant it remember?
[19:08] <sithlord48> misterno:  that depends on how you ahve dolphin set up .. only folders and files taht start with . are hidden
[19:09] <vasili111> sithlord48: something similar to compiz?
[19:09] <sithlord48> vasili111:  kwin is the kde window manager it manages your windows and effects.
[19:09] <vasili111> sithlord48: I have to disable befor launching compiz?
[19:09] <sithlord48> vasili111:  system settings -> desktop effects to enable various effects
[19:10] <LjL-Alps> oh lord using compiz with kde -.-
[19:10] <sithlord48> vasili111:  no that is what the --replace switch does it takes over for
[19:10] <sithlord48> LjL-Alps:  yup..
[19:10] <misterno> i dont see "show hidden files" in Dolphin Preferences
[19:10] <sithlord48> should be under the view menu
[19:11] <LjL-Alps> vasili111: why do you want to install compiz when kde (through kwin) already provides a ton of effects?
[19:11] <vasili111> sithlord48: how to bring bak kwin back ? "kwin -- replace"?
[19:11] <sithlord48> vasili111:  yup
[19:12] <sithlord48> vasili111:  kwin --replace (there is no space after the --
[19:12] <misterno> so the only way to have always show hidden files all times is to configure Dolphin to "use common properties for all folders"
[19:12] <misterno> weird
[19:12] <vasili111> sithlord48: Also I installed muon pacage as u say. So I will have in Muon all pacages including nongui?
[19:12] <sithlord48> misterno:  do u have the menu or the menu button in dolphin? if you have the menu its in teh view menu
[19:13] <sithlord48> misterno:  if you have the menu button is the 8th item in the menu under show in groups
[19:13] <sithlord48> vasili111:  open the muon package manager its not the same program as muon discover
[19:13] <misterno> sithlord48 that menu option doesn't remember between folders
[19:13] <misterno> it's only for that particular folder
[19:14] <sithlord48> misterno:  that depends on how your view properties are for dolphin
[19:14] <misterno> that's what im trying to say
[19:14] <sithlord48> misterno:  thats teh expected behavoir if you want all folders to look the same you need to under view properties set it
[19:15] <misterno> that's what makes it weird
[19:15] <vasili111> sithlord48: Thank you very much for help :)
[19:15] <misterno> i dont want all folders to look the same in every respect, just to show hidden files
[19:15] <sithlord48> view preferences are per folder thats the same for most every file browers i ahve ever used.
[19:15] <sithlord48> vasili111:  your welcome
[19:15] <misterno> but that seems to be grouped up with either every folder looks the same or you dont get to see hidden files at all times
[19:16] <misterno> that's weird
[19:16] <sithlord48> misterno:  you really dont need to see the hidden folders
[19:16] <misterno> i do now looking for wallpapers
[19:16] <misterno> i dont think it is up to you to decide what i need to see or not
[19:16] <misterno> that's my decision :)
[19:16] <sithlord48> normally you just type in the location in the location bar lol
[19:16] <sithlord48> misterno:  your right about that.
[19:17] <misterno> in windows you can customize look of folders *and* still have option to turn on hidden files at all times
[19:17] <misterno> here you are either set for every folder to look the same or you have to turn on hidden files for every single folder
[19:17] <misterno> ok
[19:18] <misterno> now back to original quest for wallpapers
[19:18] <misterno> they seem to be so well hidden
[19:18] <sithlord48> misterno: yeah in not sure where in plasma5 they should be somewhere in your home folder.
[19:18] <misterno> they should be in home folder?
[19:18] <misterno> not in lets say root/usr
[19:19] <sithlord48> misterno:  get new stuff is per user so some where in your home folder
[19:19] <sithlord48> misterno:  if its global it would be in /usr/share/wallpapers
[19:19] <misterno> btw now i see hidden folders that were created by apps i installed then uninstalled, why werent theese folders removed?
[19:19] <misterno> to keep preferences?
[19:20] <sithlord48> misterno:  because uninstall is different then purge . the later removes also configs
[19:20] <sithlord48> misterno: /home/mark/.local/share/wallpapers
[19:20] <misterno> in global wallpapers folder are only plastma default wallpaper of different resolutions
[19:21] <misterno> so they must be elsewhere
[19:21] <vasili111> LjL-Alps: kwin have same cube efect as Compiz?
[19:21] <misterno> finally you did it
[19:21] <sithlord48> misterno:  if you install wallpapers with the package manager like the kde-wallpaper package they will go to /usr/share/wallpapers/
[19:22] <misterno> it was home/mark/.local/share/wallpapers
[19:22] <sithlord48> vasili111:  system settings -> desktop effects
[19:22] <misterno> so .local is the one
[19:22] <sithlord48> misterno:  if you use get new stuff it goes into your home folder
[19:22] <misterno> that's good to know, im new to linux
[19:22] <sithlord48> vasili111:  what version of kubuntu do u have ?
[19:22] <misterno> are only folders that start with . hidden?
[19:22] <sithlord48> files and folders
[19:23] <LjL-Alps> vasili111: yes, in kde5 at least (not sure about kde4). you need to enable it.
[19:23] <misterno> so there is no special hidden file property? i just name them with a . and they will be hidden?
[19:23] <sithlord48> iirc kde4 has a desktop cube too
[19:23] <sithlord48> misterno:  yup
[19:23] <misterno> that'.s good to know too
[19:23] <vasili111> sithlord48: latest. Just downloaded.
[19:23] <sithlord48> ok then system settings-> desktop behavior -> desktop effects for you
[19:24] <vasili111> LjL-Alps: Enable from  system settings -> desktop effects?
[19:24] <misterno> sithlord48 thanks for helping me resolve this mystery
[19:24] <misterno> dunno why are wallpapers hidden so much
[19:25] <misterno> there is option to show multiple wallpapers in folder and then you want to browse to folder where wallpapers downloaded and cant find it xD
[19:26] <LjL-Alps> vasili111: yes
[19:26] <misterno> regarding purge, there is option to remove everything app installed?
[19:28] <misterno> i have cube effect when changing desktops
[19:28] <misterno> but i must say i dont understand "activities"
[19:28] <misterno> they are like desktops but not desktops
[19:28] <misterno> whats the point
[19:28] <misterno> they also crash a lost plasma 5.3
[19:29] <vasili111> It works :))))
[19:29] <misterno> cube? yea
[19:29] <vasili111> How can I remove compize pakage with all dependaces?
[19:29] <vasili111> misterno: yes :)
[19:30] <sithlord48> vasili111:  well you can open muon pacage manager and do it with the gui or sudo apt remove compiz
[19:30] <misterno> hold on
[19:31] <misterno> i was using apt-get
[19:31] <misterno> there is just apt?
[19:31] <vasili111> sithlord48: it also removes all dependances or i NEED TO MANUALLY REMOVE THEM?
[19:31] <vasili111> sithlord48: sorry caps
[19:31] <sithlord48> vasili111: it should remove dependcies
[19:31] <misterno> i believe it removes all dependancies
[19:32] <misterno> there is another command you might use, after uninstall, sudo apt-get autoremove
[19:32] <misterno> sithlord48 can you tell me more about apt vs apt-get
[19:32] <vasili111> misterno: what thet command does?
[19:33] <vasili111> vasili111: I mean sudo apt-get autoremove
[19:33] <sithlord48> apt-get is just part of teh apt tools
[19:33] <misterno> dunno im new i just read when uninstalling google chrome to use two commands "sudo apt-get purge google-chrome-stable" and after that "sudo apt-get autoremove"
[19:33] <sithlord48> vasili111:  it removes un needed packages like old kernels
[19:33] <misterno> i dont know much about linux im just reading advices
[19:34] <misterno> so apt-get purge is better than apt-get remove
[19:34] <sithlord48> misterno: apt-get is one of several apt tools apt-cache apt-key and few more.
[19:34] <sithlord48> misterno:  NO
[19:34] <misterno> why?
[19:35] <sithlord48> purge will remove configs as well as the installed program . remove will just remove the program
[19:35] <sithlord48> one is not better then the other they have diffferent uses.
[19:35] <misterno> ok that's good
[19:35] <misterno> how does a command know where all the configs are?
[19:36] <sithlord48> because the FHS says where they are
[19:36] <misterno> file system?
[19:36] <sithlord48> system wide configs are in /etc user configs are in ~/.config or ~/.<programname>
[19:36] <vasili111> sithlord48: So to remove compize is beter to purge right? Becose I dont need compiz configs
[19:36] <sithlord48> misterno: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
[19:37] <sithlord48> vasili111:  you can purge compiz you have no reason to save the settings.
[19:37] <misterno> what if two applications wanna use same name for folder, what happens then?
[19:37] <misterno> ok nvm, this is getting sidelined too much
[19:37] <sithlord48> misterno:  well depending on what they name their config file
[19:45] <misterno> sithlord48 are you on plasma 5.3.2
[19:49] <sithlord48> misterno: i have many kde machines.
[19:49] <sithlord48> misterno:  my laptop is on plasma 5.4
[19:49] <sithlord48> beta
[19:49] <misterno> oh whats new?
[19:49] <sithlord48> hidpi stuff i need for my screen is 4k
[19:49] <misterno> do you have ktp-contact-list in your menu?
[19:49] <sithlord48> other stuff i don't notice
[19:50] <sithlord48> misterno:  yeah
[19:50] <sithlord48> misterno:  the plasma5 machine is not running kubuntu it runs arch linux
[19:50] <misterno> how come?
[19:51] <sithlord48> misterno:  because i like arch too
[19:51] <sithlord48> misterno:  also im a dev so i like to try my stuff on differnt distros and package for them as well
[19:51] <misterno> plasma dev?
[19:52] <sithlord48> misterno:  not plasma other random projects mostly tools for games
[19:52] <misterno> i started trying out linux distros few days ago in VM in my windows 10, first tried elementary os, hated it with a passion looks nice on screenshot not very user friendly
[19:52] <misterno> then i installed mint and loved it
[19:52] <misterno> and now i installed kubuntu
[19:53] <misterno> and kubuntu with plasma 5 is most modern UI i have seen in linux so far
[19:53] <misterno> it is close to rival win 10
[19:53] <vasili111> misterno: I just found: https://askubuntu.com/questions/445384/what-is-the-difference-between-apt-and-apt-get
[19:53] <sithlord48> misterno: debian distos are nice.. i really like kubuntu its great  i run it on most of my machines
[19:53] <sithlord48> idk never used windows since xp . build my windows binaries with wine
[19:54] <misterno> well i do know since i use windows all my life :)
[19:54] <AEL-H> What do people think about gaming on linux? I have found it to be pretty difficult which is unfortunately why I tend to use windows quite alot
[19:54] <misterno> i can also see some of perks with UI that i consider falts
[19:54] <misterno> faults
[19:54] <sithlord48> misterno:  i use windows long time just not useful to me anymore
[19:54] <misterno> like how do you disable mousewheel changing dropdown boxes?
[19:54] <misterno> that is most annoying thing ever
[19:55] <sithlord48> AEL-H:  depends on what the game was made for its not the falut of linux that games for windows don't work correctly always . wine is not perfect
[19:55] <sithlord48> misterno:  every os sucks . i have used most all of them
[19:55] <misterno> if you scroll a page (not just webpage but like system settings page) with a mousewheel and it has elements with dropdown boxes if you hover mouse over it during scroll you can accidentally change settings
[19:55] <misterno> that is sooooooooooo annoying
[19:55] <AEL-H> Oh I am aware it is not the fault of linux that is why it is annoying :), it is annoying that games are made for windows & mac primarily because that's where the money is I guess
[19:55] <misterno> and i dunno how to disable
[19:56] <sithlord48> AEL-H: i don't really play games on linux just some old ones taht work in wine . most anything new i play on console
[19:56] <misterno> AEL-H becuase linux is open source
[19:56] <misterno> games wont go that direction and make loads of money
[19:56] <sithlord48> misterno:  idk if you can disable that scrool wheel thing
[19:57] <vasili111> For games can be used steam straming. I heard that this way you can launch any game
[19:57] <misterno> sithlord48 if you ever run into it somewhere plz remember me and let me know :)
[19:57] <vasili111> streaming*
[19:57] <AEL-H> vasili111: Could you elaborate? This sounds interesting
[19:57] <misterno> that's like huge mistake in UI
[19:57] <sithlord48> threre is also some driver issues too . the open source drivers don't get to much love from coprations even those who use them
[19:57] <misterno> mouse wheel shouldnt scroll a page *and* at the same time change dropdown elements
[19:58] <sithlord48> misterno:  honestly can say that has ever been a problem for me that it does both
[19:59] <misterno> trust me coming from windows it's quite annoyance
[19:59] <vasili111> AEL-H: You can watch about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ88B8aWdk0&index=3&list=PLoOwJ4uRz3fGvdSNnYFEyJZbpM7Ey6ZjF It is about PCBSD but I think same will be for Linux. But Keep in mind that you will need windows machine anyway
[19:59] <sithlord48> can you not change combo boxes with the scroll wheel in windows ?
[19:59] <vasili111> AEL-H: You just sream from windows machine to Unix machine as video
[19:59] <misterno> you can depending how they were coded, but in general you wont be changing drop down boxes while scrolling
[19:59] <misterno> that's just sensible coding
[20:00] <sithlord48> where is taht even a problem?
[20:00] <misterno> example, i installed kubuntu and go to system settings
[20:01] <misterno> since my screen is lower resolution running in VM i have plenty of windows who are small enough to be scrollable
[20:01] <vasili111> sithlord48: Have you trued FreeBSD. How you like it?
[20:01] <misterno> i try to scroll down to see all the options and accidentally change drop down elements during the scroll if i hover over it
[20:01] <sithlord48> vasili111:  not in long time
[20:01] <misterno> that shouldnt happen
[20:01] <misterno> changing drop down elements should be disable during scroll
[20:01] <misterno> and then later enabled or something
[20:02] <sithlord48> misterno:  sounds like alot of code to make that happen and maybe break other stuff.. or keep your mouse off them combo boxes
[20:02] <misterno> also from what ive seen windows and corporations in general like google have moved away from drop down boxes
[20:02] <misterno> but in linux i see them all the time
[20:03] <sithlord48> misterno:  no one who writes free software cares what microsoft does or other corporations we write code for us
[20:03] <misterno> well that is one small thing that raises the quality bar of good UIs
[20:04] <sithlord48> i disagree combo boxes are useful
[20:04] <misterno> this isn't just "because microsoft does it must be better"
[20:04] <misterno> it really is better
[20:04] <vasili111> Which button is "Meta"? I found it as a hotkey in kwin dwsktop effects.
[20:04] <sithlord48> vasili111:  meta is usually the "windows" button
[20:04] <sithlord48> misterno:  its a matter of perspective.  there are places where comboboxes are the best input others where its not
[20:05] <misterno> i already had this discussion in #linux
[20:05] <misterno> oh boy did i enrage them
[20:05] <sithlord48> yup we love windows users telling us how were wrong so i can see that being fun .
[20:05] <misterno> it's a matter of perspective to a degree but there are UI designs that are clearly better and clearly worse
[20:06] <sithlord48> like that flating of crap lately..
[20:06] <misterno> well that's the problem i see with linux community coming from outside
[20:06] <sithlord48> really bad UI design
[20:06] <lordievader> vasili111: About your compiz thing, we have Kwin, it pretty much does everything Compiz does.
[20:06] <misterno> you are way too defensive about stuff because it comes from someone using windows
[20:06] <sithlord48> hi lordievader
[20:06] <lordievader> vasili111: Besides kwin is integrated into the plasma desktop, no need to install anything extra.
[20:06] <lordievader> Hey sithlord48
[20:06] <misterno> so you don't really address the issue, you address where it is coming from and get defensive
[20:07] <vasili111> lordievader: Yes pretty nice effects:)
[20:07] <sithlord48> misterno:  do u write software?
[20:07] <misterno> no
[20:07] <sithlord48> misterno:  if you don't you shouln't tell those who do about input widgets.
[20:07] <misterno> why not
[20:08] <sithlord48> becuse you don't know what is involved in design . and there are places comboboxes are very useful .
[20:08] <misterno> you just conflated design with coding
[20:08] <lordievader> sithlord48: You do know that software developers are often crap designers? (UI design not excluded)
[20:08] <misterno> design has nothing to do with coding
[20:08] <sithlord48> it has alot when you make gui programs
[20:09] <misterno> not really
[20:09] <misterno> a UI/UX designer doesnt have to know a single line of code
[20:09] <sithlord48> trust me i do lots of gui design and coding they are one and the same
[20:09] <misterno> to know what a good UI/UX is
[20:09] <sithlord48> very untrue
[20:09] <misterno> how so
[20:10] <sithlord48> you need to know how the objects are used in order to build correctly with them . every kind of input widget has its place.
[20:10] <vasili111> sithlord48: When I use "Windows" button when I asked to use "Meta" nothing happens.
[20:10] <sithlord48> what would u use instead of combo boxes ?
[20:10] <misterno> you need to know how the objects are used to make a good UI then it is up to coder to figure out how to code it
[20:10] <lordievader> vasili111: Usually meta is used in combination with some other button.
[20:10] <misterno> you dont need to know how to code it to know this is how it's used
[20:10] <misterno> that just doesnt make sense
[20:11] <sithlord48> its used in code by code you need to know how to code it what methods its expects and what datas it returns to use it correctly
[20:11] <misterno> it doesn't matter how the code looks, it's what user does with the UI that matters
[20:12] <misterno> and user has nothing to do with how code works underneath
[20:12] <sithlord48> not how the code looks . how the objects work
[20:12] <misterno> how objects work?
[20:12] <vasili111> it works now :)
[20:13] <lordievader> vasili111: :)
[20:13] <sithlord48> comboboxes fill a specific use. when you have several things the user can select but only want one and usually want either that string or int of its list pos.
[20:13] <sithlord48> you can use a line for text but the user can fuck stuff up quicly sometimes if you let them do what ever.
[20:13] <misterno> that has nothing to do with how combobox is coded to make a good UI it's about what user wants and what user does
[20:14] <misterno> you can code it however you like
[20:14] <lordievader> sithlord48: Please watch your language.
[20:14] <vasili111> lordievader: I was selecting effect but did not pressed apply. I think it is time for sleep for me :)
[20:14] <sithlord48> why the combobox hate ?
[20:14] <misterno> letting users mess things up has nothing to do with requirement to know how to code to make a good UI
[20:15] <misterno> dude you are simply wrong there
[20:15] <lordievader> vasili111: Perhaps, perhaps ;)
[20:15] <lordievader> vasili111: Or time for lots of coffee :P
[20:15] <sithlord48> not letting the user break stuff is part of making a good UI
[20:15] <vasili111> lordievader: :)
[20:15] <sithlord48> its just good coding practice you don't let the user shoot themself in the foot
[20:16] <misterno> no that's part of making a good code
[20:16] <vasili111> Thank you guys for help:)
[20:16] <misterno> and by proxy a good UI
[20:16] <sithlord48> good UI has good code..
[20:17] <sithlord48> since UIs are Coded.
[20:17] <misterno> you argument is fallacious
[20:17] <sithlord48> write some progams with UI you will see where im correct
[20:17] <misterno> you might as well say not eating fast food is important in making a good UI since then coder will have a healthier life and will be able to code more and better more focused code
[20:17] <sithlord48> but misterno i have to leave now time to go home from work i maybe on later . it was nice to talk with you even if we don't agree about combo boxes :D
[20:18] <misterno> so no fast food = better ui
[20:18] <misterno> it's ridiculous
[20:18] <misterno> i dont think you understand design at all
[20:18] <misterno> when you claim one has to know how to code to do good design
[20:18] <sithlord48> to make a good UI design you need to code it
[20:19] <misterno> UI and UX is about researching users their habbits needs, and improving on efficiency of wanted actions
[20:19] <misterno> not about learning how to code
[20:19] <lordievader> QtCreator lets you design a ui without a line of code.
[20:19] <misterno> you can know how comboboxes work and their functions without knowing how to actually code it
[20:19] <sithlord48> poorly i regret all my .ui files and end up doing them in code.
[20:19] <misterno> that's just faulty reasoning
[20:20] <lordievader> The output you can covert to something usable in your C, Python or whatever program.
[20:20] <misterno> and no wonder KDEs in linux are such a mess
[20:20] <sithlord48> besides you can't block that scrollevent on comboboxes without alot of work
[20:20] <misterno> now you are going into technicalities
[20:20] <misterno> it's irrelevant what is technically needed to do it
[20:21] <misterno> when it is done elsewheree
[20:21] <misterno> the point is it's better UI
[20:21] <misterno> but what do you know when you think you require to know how to code to know what a good UI design is
[20:21] <sithlord48> what do u use in place of comboboxes then ?
[20:22] <sithlord48> no im saying if you knew how to code you would understand why comboboxes are used in place of other input widgets.
[20:23] <misterno> that's completely different argument than saying you don't know what you are talking about because you don't code and coding is needed to understand what good UI is
[20:23] <sithlord48> but anywho i have to go . i might be on later
[20:23] <misterno> you are looking for exuses not to do good UI because it's hard
[20:23] <misterno> and i'm not questioning how hard it is or what technical undelying layer is
[20:23] <misterno> i'm discussing UI itself
[20:24] <misterno> and if you can see it working different/better elsewhere it can clearly be done
[20:24] <misterno> but hey "you can't say anything to people coding it because you aren't coding" so you don't know what good UI makes
[20:24] <misterno> that's just fallacious
[20:24] <lordievader> misterno: You realize he is gone? ;)
[20:25] <misterno> actually i wasn't because i went to toilet in between and returned missing his quit xD
[20:25] <misterno> thanks
[20:26] <misterno> just trying to talk to some linux users online in chats like this freenode im starting to get the idea what's wrong with linux and it's community
[20:27] <lordievader> A lot is wrong with any OS. Nothing is perfect with either the OS itself or the community.
[20:28] <misterno> yeah but this goes against reason
[20:28] <misterno> don't you think it's good to acknowledge and get input on what is wrong?
[20:29] <misterno> it's one thing to say "this is wrong needs to be fixed, will take time since it's a lot of work"
[20:29] <misterno> than saying "no this isn't wrong at all"
[20:29] <misterno> that's the crux of this
[20:29] <misterno> i had this discussion in #linux and they were trying to tell me how this behavior wasn't wrong
[20:29] <lordievader> Wasn't accepting the first step or something? I guess ignoring is step zero then.
[20:29] <misterno> when i say wrong i mean of course less usable
[20:30] <misterno> lets not get into semantics immediately
[20:30] <misterno> and theres huge backlash from defensive linux users
[20:30] <misterno> "who are you to tell us anything"
[20:30] <misterno> no discussing
[20:30] <misterno> no addressing what im actually pointing to
[20:30] <lordievader> People quickly feel attacked. Especially when they embrace something.
[20:31] <misterno> it's more like, "it's just your opinion, we know that opinions can't be proven universal therefore we will dismiss everything you say"
[20:31] <misterno> that's whats wrong with linux from few days i tried to interact :)
[20:31] <lordievader> That is not what is wrong with Linux, that is what is wrong with humanity in general.
[20:31] <lordievader> People are afraid to make and/or admit faults.
[20:31] <misterno> like whos better to see little glitches and inconsistencies than new user and not someone who already got used to it?
[20:32] <misterno> but this isn't anyones fault to blame
[20:32] <misterno> this guy certainly didn't code plasma DE to feel directly attacked
[20:32] <misterno> this is about ideologies and defending them
[20:32] <misterno> i defend my ideology from my experience
[20:32] <misterno> coming from windows
[20:33] <misterno> that is immediatelly dismissed by linux users
[20:33] <misterno> and they defend their ideology
[20:33] <misterno> but im actually trying to discuss usability and metrics which are admittedly often subjective, but still to a degree measurable
[20:33] <misterno> and that seems to be impossible
[20:34] <misterno> nobody engages in that discussion
[20:34] <misterno> on that level
[20:34] <misterno> not everything that comes from microsoft or apple is evil
[20:34] <misterno> they have high minimum standards
[20:34] <lordievader> Have you been to #kde-devel?
[20:34] <misterno> im new
[20:34] <misterno> to linux
[20:35] <misterno> so no
[20:35] <lordievader> Perhaps you should, kde developers are lovely people.
[20:35] <misterno> you arent being sarcastic? :)
[20:36] <misterno> i somewhat understand it
[20:36] <misterno> because if at the end of the day you put in the enormous work to code it, you will also have a big say in how it is done
[20:36] <misterno> you are no-one's drone
[20:36] <lordievader> No, I'm not being sarcastic. It is better to discuss these things with the people who actually develop it than with me ;)
[20:37] <genii> BTW, we do have a channel for non-support discussions, #kubuntu-offtopic  ;)
[20:39] <misterno> genii is there a way to disable mousewheel interaction with comboboxes ?
[20:40] <misterno> or whatever they are called, i call them drop down boxes/menus
[20:41] <genii> Perhaps, but I don't know how.
[20:42] <AbuDhar> hey
[20:42] <AbuDhar> how do I switch the playback device to my headphones?
[20:42] <AbuDhar> :S
[20:46] <AbuDhar> It's not switching :/
[21:03] <levo> i used universal usb creator to copy 15.04 into usb. but it doesn't boot. (i used another linux distro which it worked)
[21:05] <levo> universal usb installer
[21:27] <AbuDhar>  my headphones are plugged but pulseaudio says unplugged.
[21:50] <misterno> anyone knows how to install all the debug packages for crash reports?
[21:51] <misterno> currently it says im missing debug packages for /usr/bin/plasmashell and for /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libQt5Qml.so.5
[21:54] <sithlord48> misterno:  packagename-dev
[21:54] <TJ-> misterno: you might need to enable the 'ddeb' debug archives - some packages ship in the main archives with <package>-dbg, others have their debug symbols separated by the buildd and moved into <package>-dbgsym packages in the ddeb archive
[21:54] <sithlord48> misterno:  sorry packagename-dbg
[21:56] <TJ-> misterno: I see http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145328/
[21:58] <TJ-> misterno: ddeb's config for apt: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145358/
[22:02] <misterno> i dont understand what should i do
[22:02] <misterno> im new to linux
[22:03] <TJ-> misterno: add the latter file (with modifications to match the ubuntu release you are using if necessary). The path where the file should be is in the comment on the first line. After adding the file do "sudo apt-get update" so the system fetches the package lists.
[22:03] <misterno> but dude you are all skipping few steps thinking new users know how
[22:03] <TJ-> misterno: once that is done you can install a -dbgsym package like any other, e.g. "sudo apt-get install libqt5qml5-dbgsym"
[22:07] <misterno> the amount of mess im reading just searching this is staggering
[22:07] <misterno> and quite overwhelming
[22:08] <misterno> talking about userunfriendly
[22:08] <finetundra> sorry, what are you trying to do misterno?
[22:08] <finetundra> I just got here
[22:08] <TJ-> misterno: the pastebin shows the contents of a simple text file. The first line (starting with a #) shows the path where those file contents should be saved
[22:08] <misterno> haha nobody understands that new user to linux doesn't know anything
[22:08] <misterno> and everyone assumes prior knowledge for practically any command or advice
[22:08] <misterno> not explaining anything
[22:08] <misterno> xD
[22:09] <TJ-> misterno: you can create that file from the GUI using "kdesudo kate /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debug_symbols.list"
[22:09] <misterno> TJ- you really think i know what add the latter file (with modification to match the ubuntu) is, how to do it, why, what repercussions it has?
[22:09] <misterno> xD
[22:09] <finetundra> misterno: what is it you're trying to do?
[22:10] <TJ-> misterno: after your earlier exposition on user interface design; Yes :)
[22:10] <misterno> im trying to help if i can devs of plasma 5.3.2 to send a crash report that is always labeled as not useful since i'm apparently missing some dbg or symbol packages
[22:11] <finetundra> oh.
[22:11] <misterno> but im literally couple of days linux user
[22:11] <finetundra> have you asked in #KDE ?
[22:11] <misterno> asked in #kde-devel got some response but after installing few packages still missing few
[22:12] <TJ-> misterno: if your system is 14.04 (trusty) then you can use the file contents I pasted as-is. If you are using 15.04 Vivid, you'd need to replace all mention of "trusty" with "vivid"
[22:12] <misterno> my system is 15.04
[22:12] <TJ-> misterno: OK, then ^^^^^^^^^ that applies
[22:12] <misterno> TJ- you really thought i would know i needed to replace something with something else for system 15.04?
[22:12] <misterno> dude it's like you are speaking klingon, you understand im NEW to linux?
[22:12] <misterno> not stupid just new though
[22:14] <misterno> to really help you would need to go about explaining if i need to add sources repositories, how and so on
[22:14] <finetundra> misterno: you need to navigate to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[22:14] <misterno> then explain what *exact* commands to use to get *exact* package not tell me approximately just take this change it for your version do that and you're done XD
[22:14] <misterno> navigate on my disk locally?
[22:14] <misterno> sure i can do that
[22:15] <akasic> i got a solution for you, use shitdows and ask in their forums for possible problems, that if they dont try to send you from a place to amother
[22:15] <TJ-> I said: >>> you can create that file from the GUI using "kdesudo kate /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debug_symbols.list"
[22:15] <akasic> show more modesty, thats the first step for learning linux
[22:16] <misterno> i dont think you remember how overwhelming and userunfriendly this is :)
[22:16] <sithlord48> you need to find what package you need the debug symbols for . what package is /usr/bin/plasmashell in ?
[22:16] <misterno> for a new guy :)
[22:16] <akasic> sure i know it well, nobody read the work for me, lazy
[22:17] <sithlord48> you can use the command dpkg -S /usr/bin/plasmashell to find out .. then you install the debug package for it <packagename>-dbg
[22:17] <finetundra> misterno: once you've gotten to that folder you need to make a file called debug_symbols.list and add the lines from TJ's paste
[22:18] <misterno> so you are asking me to add a repository?
[22:18] <AbuDhar> misterno: what is unuserfriendly?
[22:18] <AbuDhar> userunfriendlly*
[22:19] <AbuDhar> sorry
[22:19] <misterno> everything :)
[22:19] <finetundra> misterno: if I understand what's been said correctly, yes
[22:19] <akasic> he is just blaming without knowing how that really works
[22:19] <AbuDhar> just do a bit research misterno and you will be fine :D
[22:19] <akasic> ''userunfriendly''
[22:19] <misterno> no, im expressing frustration from how i feel, has nothing to do with blaming anyone in particular it's more like in total
[22:21] <akasic> dont you feel more frustated when a lot of statistics are collected without consent? or when your pc works at 1/2 of possibilities? who are you frustated at? Mr. Unix?
[22:21] <AbuDhar> :D
[22:21] <finetundra> to be fair, it does take a little bit to get into how things are usually done because win and osx  handle things differently
[22:21] <misterno> akasic you are getting defensive
[22:21] <misterno> as i noticed many linux users do
[22:21] <AbuDhar> misterno: I understand you fully :)
[22:21] <akasic> no, ive been there too
[22:21] <AbuDhar> we have all been there
[22:21] <akasic> thats the price for liberty
[22:22] <misterno> but the way you are presenting your dilemma is false dichotomy
[22:22] <sithlord48> +1 AbuDhar
[22:22] <akasic> im sorry if i sound i bit rude
[22:22] <misterno> no, it's not about being rude at all
[22:22] <misterno> you think it's impossible to be frustrated by both???
[22:22] <misterno> so you make false dilemma to choose one over the other or what?
[22:22] <misterno> it makes no sense
[22:23] <akasic> its the rpice of freedom
[22:23] <akasic> you now are a God
[22:23] <misterno> i'm not sure it's that simple
[22:23] <AbuDhar> akasic: ??
[22:23] <akasic> ?
[22:24] <AbuDhar> just surprised by your blasphemic sentence.
[22:24] <misterno> and speaking of collecting user information, just little that ive used linux ive already learned cannonical collecting user info :P
[22:24] <misterno> so im not sure even if you have a point there too heh
[22:25] <sithlord48> cannonical !=linux
[22:25] <misterno> oh the usual semantical argument
[22:25] <AbuDhar> cannonical makes money :P loads of money
[22:25] <misterno> ofc cannonical isnt linux
[22:25] <finetundra> misterno: they ARE removing the one thing that might/does
[22:25] <misterno> we are talking colloquially
[22:25] <akasic> its not about choosing, i think its more about accepting that as a user-created system, there is not a basis or a ''whatever steps to follow'', one must lern it
[22:25] <misterno> it's like when someone says microsoft had monopoly with windows
[22:25] <misterno> anyone who knows what monopoly is will say that's not a monopoly
[22:26] <misterno> but colloquially we understand each other
[22:26] <misterno> these semantical arguments are only to waste time
[22:26] <akasic> is not blasphemic, were God. Are u muslim? Allah is God, so we are
[22:27] <AbuDhar> ok I don't want to discuss religion with you in here.. :)
[22:27] <misterno> well you started it and then you said you dont want to discuss it, without me ever saying anything xD
[22:27] <akasic> for me is not religion, is simply a way of being
[22:28] <akasic> that is the problem
[22:28] <misterno> oh sorry i misread who wrote what
[22:28] <misterno> here is the thing you need to understand about trying to help
[22:29] <misterno> there are multiple ways to do something
[22:29] <misterno> it's good to explain to a new user what are multiple ways, that they are exactly the same, and what are usual best practices
[22:29] <akasic> miserto, once i wrote that for editing in terminal, i should use gedit, the install it, then open it as super user, cause it was a protected file, then accepting and saving
[22:29] <akasic> misterno
[22:29] <akasic> i readed sorry
[22:30] <misterno> so for example when you ask me to use particular command without telling me to add repository to the source and im asking am i supposed to add repository the the source it gets a bit confusing
[22:30] <akasic> it depends
[22:31] <akasic> u are confused because you think your knowledge doesnt allow to see the possibilities, or because u dont know how to do it?
[22:31] <misterno> in this particular case, im curious what happens when one just adds a repostory
[22:31] <sithlord48> since when do u need to add a repo for debug symbols?
[22:31] <misterno> i don't know im making guess examples
[22:31] <akasic> you can do it through gui
[22:32] <sithlord48> misterno:  you may also find that you will get advice for the cli lots . that is not because its the only way its just easier to say type this then click here click that etc.
[22:32] <misterno> so the guy asks me to go to folder etc/apt/sources.list.d without explaining thats nothing but adding source repository? is that correct?
[22:32] <misterno> it's basically one of couple of ways ?
[22:32] <TJ-> sithlord48: since the buildd split out the debug symbols to the ddeb archive
[22:33] <akasic> you are right
[22:33] <sithlord48> TJ-: is this new to 15.04 or something?
[22:33] <misterno> sithlord48 cli is easier until the gui is so user friendly that it isn't
[22:33] <misterno> but yes sometimes typing a command will always be faster
[22:33] <akasic> not at all
[22:33] <TJ-> sithlord48: No, it's been active for at least the last 4 years, maybe more
[22:34] <sithlord48> TJ-:  weird i have never had to enable this to make bug reports
[22:34] <akasic> try it at least, dont be afraid of the ascci happy characters
[22:34] <akasic> ascii
[22:34] <misterno> best part was when he linked me this http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145328/
[22:34] <akasic> :S
[22:34] <misterno> and one more
[22:34] <misterno> and this is all in good intent to help
[22:35] <misterno> but skipping so many steps and assuming prior knowledge
[22:35] <TJ-> sithlord48: it depends on if the package generates a non-empty package-dbg in the main archive, or not. "pkg-create-dbgsym" is used on the buildds to split out the debug symbols into <package>-dbgsym packages on ddebs.ubuntu.com
[22:35] <akasic> so you want to install the necessary software for debbuging?
[22:35] <misterno> it's like telling a guy new to english lanugage "to make a conditional sentence you do xxx and xxx" and the guy can barelly say "how you do"
[22:36] <sithlord48> well TJ- that is good to know
[22:36] <sithlord48> misterno:  google is your friend for those things how do i add a repo kubuntu
[22:36] <TJ-> In this case the package is  "libqt5qml5" ...  see http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145328/
[22:37] <misterno> i already know how to add a repo, the issue is what correct repo, why, what are possible consequences
[22:37] <sithlord48> well now you need to know what that address means i guess lets look at them together.
[22:37] <akasic> do u want to debug system crashing, program crashing...?
[22:38] <misterno> just send a crash report
[22:38] <sithlord48> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12145358/ is the list he sent you
[22:38] <akasic> but kde have one sender itself, i think
[22:38] <misterno> but that seems to be waay to difficult for new guy to get through these initial obstacles
[22:38] <sithlord48> yeah /usr/bin/plasmashell what package is that from (in not on *buntu atm)
[22:38] <akasic> every time i crash, its auto the window that appears if i wish to report
[22:38] <TJ-> misterno: this stuff is intended for developers, not new users
[22:39] <misterno> sending crash reports is intended for developers?
[22:39] <misterno> i got the opposite impression
[22:39] <akasic> debuging is like u have to leave ur pc doing stuff, lkie analyzing the steps
[22:40] <sithlord48> can i ask what is happening to get this crash ?
[22:40] <akasic> if im not wrog
[22:40] <akasic> wrong
[22:40] <misterno> i have many crashes mostly it's plasma bugging
[22:40] <sithlord48> did u just install ?
[22:40] <akasic> sending crash reorts u help a lot bro
[22:40] <TJ-> misterno: setting up debug symbol archives. Usually if you submit a bug-report automatically using ubuntu-bug/apport-bug (which is what the GUI crash-reporter does in the background) the collected files and stacktrace are retraced automatically by the bug tracker once the files are attached to the bug report.
[22:40] <misterno> this particular case is regarding activities
[22:41] <sithlord48> are you on the backports repo for kde updates?
[22:41] <misterno> TJ- yeah i got that idea
[22:41] <misterno> yes i have backports repository sources added
[22:41] <sithlord48> and your updated with latest kde
[22:42] <akasic> one time they asked me to install the debbuging packs but for an specific problems with amarok, because my problem was unique
[22:42] <misterno> here see my sources http://s9.postimg.org/j02wwggwv/screenshot_9.png
[22:42] <akasic> all via forum
[22:42] <misterno> i have plasma 5.3.2 so i guess yes i have latest
[22:43] <akasic> well, again, sorry if ive not been specially friendly, cya
[22:43] <sithlord48> so again what package does the files belong to ? dpkg -S /usr/bin/plasmashell should tell you
[22:43] <misterno> no you guys were friendly
[22:43] <misterno> i said the whole amount of information is unfrinedly :)
[22:43] <misterno> when searching for this through google
[22:44] <TJ-> plasma-workspace
[22:44] <sithlord48> ok so can you install plsama-workspace-dbg
[22:44] <misterno> here is what i need left http://s9.postimg.org/nahks1lzz/screenshot_10.png
[22:44] <misterno> i need to fix for plasmashell and libqt5qml
[22:44] <sithlord48> you may still need to add the reppo that tj added for the qt lib
[22:45] <akasic> i only was trying to make accept the idea that now there is not limits in what we can do, and that a linux user benefits itself at the end, its simply that there is no ''explainable'' way, it is what it is
[22:45] <akasic> cya
[22:45] <misterno> and TJ already explained but im too newb
[22:45] <misterno> to understand exactly what to do
[22:45] <sithlord48> well do they both have -dbg packages?
[22:45] <sithlord48> if so install them
[22:45] <misterno> here is the thing
[22:45] <misterno> i read somewhere you can use command apt search nameof package
[22:45] <sithlord48> you can
[22:45] <misterno> to see if there are such -dbg packages
[22:46] <akasic> just install synaptic package manager
[22:46] <misterno> so if i type apt search plasma-workspace i get http://s9.postimg.org/pgbvmjpgf/screenshot_11.png
[22:46] <sithlord48> akasic:  eww why not use muon package manager?
[22:46] <misterno> but if i type apt search libqt5qml there is no -dbg
[22:46] <TJ-> misterno: to search on package name only, use "apt-cache search -n <search-term-regular_expression>
[22:47] <sithlord48> ok well you need othe plasma one
[22:47] <sithlord48> need the *
[22:47] <akasic> why not use dpkg after downloading manually all packs and deps
[22:47] <akasic> ...
[22:48] <misterno> if you looked at my last screenshot you will see i have plasma-workspace-dbg installed
[22:48] <sithlord48> well im just saying synaptic is depend heavy muon package manager is not
[22:48] <akasic> heavy for an i7 or a tablet?
[22:48] <sithlord48> akasic:  no just heavy in number of packages and download size
[22:49] <sithlord48> at least compaired to muon
[22:49] <akasic> then why use kde, we have mc
[22:50] <sithlord48> akasic:  i think your taking what in saying wrong. isn't muon our "native" package manager
[22:50] <akasic> ill give it a try
[22:50] <deadmund> I'm having trouble with my machine.  If I shutdown (using any method available) the system reboots (it will not stay off).  If I add acpi=off to my kernel then I can shutdown, but there is no option for the power button config in the KDE settings and I'm pretty sure that by pressing it I just kill the system immediately without letting the OS shutdown properly.  Any ideas how I can fix this?  Thanks in advance!
[22:50] <sithlord48> akasic:  muon package manager is a synaptic like manager written in qt
[22:51] <akasic> well, the other offers useful stuff, i was trying to help, i like all programs and systems, whatever the heigh weight or pretiness
[22:51] <misterno> deadmund do you get "acpi pcc probe failed" when booting
[22:51] <akasic> thnx for the info
[22:52] <deadmund> misterno: In what log?  I don't see it in dmesg
[22:52] <misterno> it's sometihng that shows up on my screen during booting before login
[22:52] <misterno> so i thought id ask to see if you have it
[22:53] <TJ-> misterno: don't worry about it; the kernel module is just being noisy. That message has been patched out in later kernels
[22:53] <deadmund> misterno: I don't know how to look at that dump.  I know what you're talking about, but I am using HDMI and my screen is dark at that time
[22:53] <misterno> so is mine, black scren then this message pops up, so i guess you dont get it
[22:54] <misterno> it's very briefly for a second
[22:54] <akasic> i said ''synaptic'' but some package managers, when u type the name, it tells if it is installed or not
[22:54] <deadmund> misterno: I guess so.  For what it's worth, my screen is not black, but actually displays a built in error, "no signal found" until the display manager kicks in and then everything works fine again
[22:54] <deadmund> misterno: Any idea how to fix it?  Do you see that message with acpi=off kernel parameter?
[22:54] <sithlord48> muon package manager does that
[22:54] <misterno> ohh so you dont have any output
[22:54] <misterno> i see now
[22:55] <akasic> of course shitlord
[22:55] <misterno> deadmund no im like 3 days old linux user i dont know anything
[22:55] <deadmund> hahah
[22:55] <deadmund> thanks anyway
[22:55] <TJ-> misterno: don't use "acpi-off" ! That's kill almost every important hardware config the PC has!
[22:55] <misterno> im serious
[22:55] <akasic> also, i suppose that muon will automatically dependencies, i am right?
[22:55] <sithlord48> akasic: no need for name calling lol
[22:55] <akasic> install them
[22:56] <deadmund> misterno: Are you having the same problem as me?
[22:56] <sithlord48> akasic: yup its very nice
[22:56] <akasic> what name? sorry man..
[22:56] <TJ-> misterno: the developer that added the kernel module that writes "ACPI PCC probe failed" left that message in when it should have been removed. It's basically saying 'this PC doesn't have PCC - no worries!'
[22:56] <akasic> shithlord
[22:56] <akasic> soz m8
[22:56] <sithlord48> akasic: also you can queue many changes before you commit
[22:56] <akasic> sure
[22:56] <deadmund> misterno: If so, try this kernel param:     acpi=noirq            I'm gonna try it now, brb!!
[22:57] <sithlord48> akasic: its comp;etely fine typo im sure
[22:57] <misterno> deadmund no, i had separate issue was just looking for connections, i installed kubuntu 15.04 in vmware VM on windows and when i go to shutdown it doesnt shut down fully, and i see this message about acpi that i didnt see in mint VM so i thought that was something significant
[22:57] <misterno> in the meantime i updated system to plasma 5.3.2 and apparently this issue has gone away (shutting down properly) but i still see this acpi message during boot
[22:58] <sithlord48> oh wait u hAve plasma crash in vm?
[22:58] <misterno> that's all
[22:58] <akasic> yes, i dont want to appear like a cinic hater
[22:58] <sithlord48> akasic: of course we all have our ways .
[22:58] <misterno> sithlord48 yes im running in VM
[22:58] <sithlord48> misterno:  did u install the vm drivers?
[22:58] <akasic> yes, some days i wish i had more light in the room
[22:58] <misterno> by vm drivers you mean vmware tools? yes
[22:59] <sithlord48> akasic:  tried that once it made my eyes hurt.
[22:59] <akasic> it doesnt matter, that flat keys wont do the fine job as the 3d ones
[23:00] <misterno> TJ- do you know what is this acpi PCC ?
[23:00] <akasic> man... it was a typo, not a lapsus from a uncontrolled attack of hominidus pardus
[23:01] <sithlord48> misterno: in virtual box its call guest additions
[23:01] <TJ-> misterno: Yes, Processor Clocking Control
[23:02] <akasic> ok u said ''ways'' not ''days''
[23:02] <akasic> well, time to go, cya
[23:02] <sithlord48> later
[23:02] <misterno> sithlord48 it's same thing i guess
[23:02] <akasic> later, i was asking myself the other day about muon, it will delete orphan deps after uninstal also? that would do the job
[23:03] <sithlord48> misterno:  anyway back to installing your debug packages .....
[23:03] <sithlord48> akasic:  will muon discover remove depends? idk i don't really use it much mostly i use apt or muon package manager
[23:04] <misterno> sithlord48 seems to be futile since always distracted by other topics
[23:04] <sithlord48> ok then
[23:04] <akasic> take care bros
[23:05] <misterno> it's like when you tell me "unlock the door and open it" while i need to know "take this particular key, put it in side lock this particular way, turn clockwise, press handle then push door to open"
[23:05] <misterno> you understand there are steps always assumed we all know
[23:05] <misterno> while i dont
[23:06] <sithlord48> do u know about kubuntuforums.net? maybe you should check there maybe answer some questions
[23:06] <misterno> that's the thing, just because im new to linux doesn;t mean im new to computers, im windows user for 20 years
[23:07] <misterno> but just because im decent at windows doesn't mean im not complete newb to linux
[23:07] <sithlord48> ok forget everything you know about windows because its no linux :D
[23:07] <misterno> and yes, googling i could learn everything myself
[23:07] <misterno> but talking to people is so much better and more motivating (sometimes)
[23:08] <misterno> and often faster
[23:09] <sithlord48> not saying you need to google everything
[23:09] <misterno> to be honest we have been talking for quite a while
[23:09] <misterno> i would have already led you by hand and got you the packages if you were the one asking and i was the one knowing what to do :)
[23:10] <sithlord48> to be fair tj told you what to do with very simple steps
[23:11] <misterno> while explaining few concepts that i would consider newbs need to know too
[23:11] <sithlord48> yup check out kubuntuforums.net for the explains its our "offical" support forum
[23:11] <misterno> well i would need to go through it again
[23:11] <misterno> since it was lost in all sidetracked talk
[23:12] <sithlord48> brb
[23:14] <misterno> there is a term ELI5 that's suitable for such situations
[23:14] <misterno> means explain like im five :D
[23:43] <misterno> is desktop not a folder one  can put files on?
[23:43] <misterno> i mean desktop area on screen
[23:44] <sithlord48> that widget shows the content of a folder.
[23:45] <sithlord48> you can configure it to be any folder if you put files in that folder they will show in the widget.
[23:45] <misterno> but i cant drag a file and drop it onto desktop
[23:46] <misterno> now do files show up on desktop that i manually copy in dolphin to desktop folder in my home
[23:47] <sithlord48> they only show if you have it in folder view mode by defalut it just a containment area for widgets
[23:47] <misterno> how i make it to be in folder view?
[23:48] <sithlord48> well in kde4 you would right click on the desktop go to settings and change the type to folder.
[23:50] <misterno> ohh it's where you change wallpapers
[23:50] <sithlord48> i dont know if im missing a package or if plasma5 don't allow it
[23:50] <misterno> it does i just changed it
[23:50] <sithlord48> i can't change that option its just forced on desktop mode. for me (again not using kubuntu on this computer )
[23:50] <misterno> says "layout"
[23:50] <misterno> and i can change to folder view
[23:51] <misterno> see this is new concept to me
[23:51] <misterno> why would they make this distinction between desktop and folder view
[23:51] <sithlord48> yup that combobox for me is just greyed out i only have the stuff for desktop mode.
[23:51] <misterno> i dont see what is the difference
[23:52] <sithlord48> because its a folderview for the whole deskopt
[23:52] <misterno> sorry but i dont get it
[23:52] <sithlord48> folder will show on the deskop files in what ever folder like a folder view widget.
[23:52] <sithlord48> desktop mode will not show the contents of any folder on the desktop and its just an area for you to place widgets.
[23:53] <misterno> yes but why have that distinction
[23:53] <misterno> in case you didnt want to have files on desktop then you wouldnt be using desktop folder on disk
[23:53] <misterno> isnt that so?
[23:54] <sithlord48> well there are more layouts like search and launch
[23:54] <sithlord48> its not just the two
[23:54] <misterno> ok but do you get my point?
[23:54] <sithlord48> folder is there as a legacy option
[23:54] <misterno> the desktop could always be showing files, you just wouldnt put them there
[23:55] <misterno> why is that legacy, they dont want people to put files on desktop?
[23:55] <sithlord48> desktop is blank plasma. folder view has a folder widget as its base object.
[23:56] <sithlord48> its legacy because that is how kde3 did i t
[23:57] <sithlord48> im not sure why there is just not a don't show icons mode . but im sure its a good reason either for making upkeep simpler for maintainers  or less code path for those not using it
[23:57] <misterno> you know what i noticed regarding thumbnails and icons view of files and folders
[23:57] <misterno> if file has wrong extension it wont be shown as thumbnail
[23:58] <sithlord48> the thumbnailer parser goes by ext.
[23:58] <misterno> so for example if you rename .png image to .jpg it wont show thumbnail anymore
[23:58] <sithlord48> you can configure that somewhere to enable jpg
[23:58] <misterno> but if you check properties of file system knows it's a png file
[23:59] <misterno> so clearly system can check file headers or something to determine file
[23:59] <misterno> look http://s9.postimg.org/k66wv957j/screenshot_12.png