[00:55] <sinzui> StevenK, I am tempted to write a an enum class that is feature flag aware, but I see your vocab is pretty complicated...have you explored removing the only two asserts in our code? i do not see why the vocabs have to be enums
[01:00] <sinzui> StevenK, I do not see why LaunchpadRadioWidgetWithDescription need to be IEnumeratedType, maybe we can make an exception for the special voab
[01:00] <sinzui> vocab
[01:02] <sinzui> EnumChoiceWidget's might also get an exception to the rule because it passes to vocabulary_to_choice_edit_items which  can take extra functions to render the items.
[01:11] <StevenK> sinzui: And here I was thinking the vocab was simple-ish
[01:12] <StevenK> sinzui: I hadn't thought about changing itemwidget, TBH.
[01:15] <sinzui> I am thinking with it. I still do not see what it needs...it is not calling any of the four attrs that IEnumeratedType define :(
[01:19] <StevenK> sinzui: I'm currently knee-deep in tests for the next pipe, are you trying, or do you want me to dump state and look with you?
[01:20] <sinzui> I am playing with it. Don't loose focus
[01:21] <StevenK> wgrant: Can you join #ubuntu-arm on freenode?
[01:22] <StevenK> wgrant: Unping
[01:23] <wgrant> StevenK: I was there already, just noticed slightly too late :)
[01:23] <StevenK> No ubuntu/member for me :-/
[01:24] <wgrant> Odd
[01:24]  * StevenK stabs official_malone
[01:40]  * StevenK tries to work out how to get the bug that was just filed from the +filebug view
[01:40] <StevenK> (In a test, so I have a initialized view)
[01:44] <wgrant> StevenK: It should have returned a redirect to it
[01:46] <StevenK> Oh, I have to call the view
[01:53] <StevenK> wgrant: It does indeed.
[02:36] <sinzui> StevenK, Here is your fix in as few lines as possible: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/936319/
[02:39] <sinzui> StevenK, There were three things that needed consideration: 1. Enums are classes that act like instances...they do not need to be instantiated. 2. vocabularies are either instantiated by you, or you register a factory in zcml to do it for you. 3. The test was passing what the user sees, not what the browser posts, so the form always has errors that were not checked
[02:39]  * sinzui tends to children
[02:48] <StevenK> sinzui: Thanks, that's awesome
[02:59] <StevenK> wgrant: Have you seen anything like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/936341/ ?
[03:03] <wgrant> StevenK: data is None
[03:04] <wgrant> StevenK, wallyworld: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/bugtaskflat-search-3/+merge/102615
[03:05] <StevenK> wgrant: Yeah, looks like zope does not love it when initial_values returns None
[03:05]  * wallyworld looking
[03:06] <wgrant> wallyworld: Thanks.
[03:06] <wgrant> StevenK: Yeah, should probably return {}
[03:06] <StevenK> wallyworld: Thanks, I'm trying to polish off this branch before lunch.
[03:06] <wallyworld> np
[03:18] <wallyworld> wgrant: 'BugTaskFlat.information_type IN (1, 2)' - can we use enum.value here instead
[03:19] <wallyworld> wgrant: also, i'm not sure we should turn on the ff if assignees cannot see their bugs. is it intended this will be fixed before we turn this on?
[03:20] <wgrant> wallyworld: It's probably a misfeature that has been deliberately used about twice ever.
[03:20] <wgrant> I don't consider it to be a significant concern. It's not documented anywhere.
[03:21] <wgrant> wallyworld: And yes, I meant to fix that enum thing but forgot.
[03:21]  * wgrant fixes.
[03:21] <wallyworld> wgrant: i think assignees should be able to see all the bugs assigned to them. what am i missing?
[03:22] <wgrant> wallyworld: Documentation and history says that you can tell who has access to a bug by looking at the subscriber list.
[03:23] <wallyworld> what do we indent to do when someone assigns a user to a bug but that user cannot see it?
[03:23] <wgrant> Same as we did until 6 months ago.
[03:23] <wgrant> They can't see it.
[03:23] <wgrant> Until we make these rules consistent, so assignment requires a grant.
[03:23] <wallyworld> that sucks
[03:24] <wgrant> Rather than what it does now: exist as a horrible undocumented special case that kills performance
[03:24] <wallyworld> we should automatically create a grant then
[03:24] <wgrant> Yes.
[03:24] <wgrant> That's the intention.
[03:24] <lifeless> wallyworld: we should have visibility and assignment matched
[03:25] <wgrant> But it's going to be far far easier to do that once we've made bug visibility not insane.
[03:25] <lifeless> wallyworld: however, its better, I think, to special case assignment (force unassigns) than to special case visibility
[03:25] <wallyworld> sure. my concern was reverting the existing behaviour ie taking something away that's now there
[03:26] <wgrant> It's existing undocumented inconsistent behaviour.
[03:26] <wgrant> That isn't fully implemented.
[03:26] <lifeless> wgrant: you may find http://vimeo.com/2723800 interesting
[03:26] <wallyworld> but there could be people who are working on bugs that all of a sudden they can't see
[03:26] <lifeless> their supervisors can fix that
[03:27] <wgrant> There's going to be a bit of that at various points throughout the migration.
[03:27] <wgrant> It's unfortunate, but I'm not sure it's worth working around it.
[03:27] <wgrant> We can check how many cases there are.
[03:27] <wgrant> My guess is "not many at all"
[03:27] <wgrant> And most of the cases that do exist will be unintentional leaks/
[03:28] <wallyworld> hmmm. alright. my objections have been raised. we'll see what happens
[03:29] <wallyworld> i wouldn't have said anything if the behaviour wasn't there and we weren't removing it all of a sudden
[03:29] <wgrant> This behaviour has an interesting history.
[03:29] <wgrant> For several months it was partially implemented.
[03:29] <wgrant> You could see the bugs in listings.
[03:29] <wgrant> But the bug page would OOPS
[03:29] <wgrant> We had a total of two bugs filed about that.
[03:29] <wallyworld> sure, but now it's fixed and people may rely on it
[03:29] <wgrant> Then for a while the bug page would render, but had no tasks.
[03:29] <wgrant> We had one bug about that.
[03:29] <lifeless> wgrant: you could add grants for all current non-accessible asasignees
[03:29] <wgrant> Then a few months ago it was fixed properly and we didn't tell anyone.
[03:30] <wgrant> lifeless: I could, but that makes the temporary mirroring triggers slower and more complicated.
[03:30] <lifeless> wgrant: nono
[03:30] <lifeless> wgrant: so, a) make assigning add a grant if the person doesn't already have access
[03:30] <lifeless> b) do a one-off check and add
[03:30] <lifeless> c) profit
[03:31] <wgrant> That's the final solution.
[03:31] <wgrant> Could add a *subscription* now.
[03:31] <wgrant> But can't add a grant directly.
[03:31] <lifeless> what stops it being used now ?
[03:31] <lifeless> isn't the schema live?
[03:31] <wgrant> It is.
[03:31] <wgrant> But the mirror triggers own all grants related to bugs.
[03:31] <lifeless> so what stops that solution being used now ?
[03:31] <wgrant> Every time the bug is touched, they will force the mirrored data into compliance.
[03:31] <wgrant> ie. delete the manual assignee grants
[03:31] <lifeless> ah
[03:31] <lifeless> kk
[03:32] <wgrant> (bugtaskflat's triggers are permanent, so they're a bit more selective. but the legacy mirroring stuff is not)
[03:38] <wgrant> erm
[03:38] <wgrant> https://lpstats.canonical.com/graphs/PPR/
[03:41] <lifeless> yay registry
[03:43] <wgrant> :)
[03:45] <wgrant> Hmm
[03:45] <wgrant> I might delete 2/3 of the bug search tests, I think
[03:45] <wgrant> Or 7/8, even
[04:15] <mwhudson> lifeless: the main lesson from that zed shaw talk is "i'm very glad i work for canonical"
[04:15] <wgrant> Yep
[04:15] <mwhudson> much as the main lesson from "release it" is "i'm glad i don't program in java"
[04:23] <nigelb> mwhudson: where was this talk? Video or in person?
[04:23] <mwhudson> nigelb: video, lifeless posted a link
[04:23] <lifeless> mwhudson: hah
 wgrant: you may find http://vimeo.com/2723800 interesting
[04:23] <lifeless> mwhudson: release spends -maybe- 10% on java disfunction
[04:24] <lifeless> mwhudson: as for that talk, the discussion on addressing acls was why I linked it
[04:24] <mwhudson> lifeless: yeah, but all the case studies were "this external service fell over and our thread pool ran out of threads and everything gummed up"
[04:24] <mwhudson> or at least, enough of them were that it made quite an impression
[04:24] <mwhudson> re: acls, yes, i realize
[04:24] <lifeless> mwhudson: applies to non-java, applies to non-java
[04:26] <nigelb> mwhudson: thanks :)
[04:27] <mwhudson> lifeless: sure, to a large extent
[04:27] <lifeless> mwhudson: e.g. blog.launchpad.net failing, and the concurrency limit we hit in one of the twisted services a while back
[04:28] <nigelb> bah. 1 hour talk. My connection is being throtled this week :/
[04:29] <mwhudson> nigelb: it's not /amazingly/ interesting, i'd say
[04:29] <lifeless> moderately entertaining
[04:29] <lifeless> about a 1/2 page on how to do scalable things that look a bit like ACLs
[04:29] <lifeless> which has some relevance to the work purple are doing
[04:29] <nigelb> Interesting. I'll queue it up for next week when I'm slated to do some boring stuff.
[04:30] <spm> o/ nigelb
[04:30] <lifeless> nigelb: moved yet ?
[04:30] <nigelb> Evening spm o/
[04:30] <nigelb> lifeless: Nope. Just send in all the documents to the consultant.
[04:30] <nigelb> Another 8 to 12 weeks at least :(
[04:31] <nigelb> lifeless: I hear you'll be keynoting at kiwipycon? :)
[04:32] <StevenK> Sigh. That vimeo video isn't available for download.
[04:33] <mwhudson> nigelb: where are you (trying to?) moving to?
[04:33] <nigelb> mwhudson: Near you! (sory of) Auckland.
[04:33] <nigelb> *sort of
[04:33] <lifeless> nigelb: yes, I should get onto my talk
[04:33] <mwhudson> ah heh
[04:33] <mwhudson> nigelb: nice :)
[04:33] <nigelb> :)
[04:34] <nigelb> lifeless: \o/ Hopefully, I can make it :)
[04:37] <StevenK> wgrant: I'm getting a failure in xx-bug-privacy.txt with - Mark Shuttleworth (Unsubscribe), is that related to jcsackett's change?
[04:39] <wgrant> StevenK: Yes
[04:39] <wgrant> StevenK: That rev is reverted now
[04:42] <StevenK> wgrant: Excellent.
[04:43] <StevenK> Hmmm, the feature flags don't seem to impact the vocab :-(
[04:45]  * StevenK blames the class-inside-another-class definition
[04:48] <wgrant> StevenK: When is the flag evaluated?
[04:58] <StevenK> wgrant: In __init__ of the vocab
[05:01] <wgrant> That's where
[05:01] <wgrant> When is the vocab instantiated?
[05:02] <StevenK> wgrant: In the class information_type_schema in BugSecrecyEditView
[05:03] <wgrant> Is the class defined directly inside BugSecrecyEditView, not in a method?
[05:03] <StevenK> wgrant: Yes
[05:03] <wgrant> Remember that the class body is executed immediately.
[05:03] <StevenK> I had inside the schema method, and you said it could be outside.
[05:03]  * StevenK moves it back
[05:04] <wgrant> Not if you're evaluating the flag in the class definition.
[05:04] <wgrant> My statement yesterday relied on the flag being used to select a class.
[05:04] <StevenK> It's okay, I wrote a test for it.
[05:06] <StevenK> wgrant: I'm more comfortable about the vocab use that I have a test for all 3 feature flags.
[05:16] <StevenK> wgrant, wallyworld: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/bugs-information_type-ui-secrecy/+merge/102624
[05:16] <StevenK> Finally!
[05:17] <StevenK> What the hell? I've managed to create 3 MPs?
[05:17] <StevenK> This button down thing is idiotic
[05:27]  * wallyworld looks
[05:28] <StevenK> wallyworld: Thanks.
[05:36] <wallyworld> StevenK: self.assertIn('Private', html) etc - i think that's too generic. can we use BeautifulSoup and search for a tag with content
[05:37] <StevenK> wallyworld: Sure, with the slight problem that I think BeautifulSoup is terrible. :-)
[05:37] <wgrant> It can't be terrible!
[05:37] <wallyworld> it's all we have though
[05:37] <wgrant> We only have 4 copies of it.
[05:37] <StevenK> Where are the 4?
[05:38] <wgrant> lib/, we used to have an egg (possibly not any more), the system one, and one in mechanize.
[05:38] <StevenK> Why it is in lib? :-(
[05:38] <wgrant> Because someone is strange.
[05:42] <StevenK> I'm tempted to remove it in a different branch, toss it at ec2 and see what happens.
[05:43] <StevenK> wallyworld: Do you have any other comments while I work out HTF to use BeautifulSoup?
[05:44] <wallyworld> StevenK: no, looks pretty good. the only other nitpicky thing is i would define a string constant for the ff names but i was going to ignore that
[05:45] <StevenK> wallyworld: I'm hoping the flags are short lived.
[05:45] <wallyworld> yeah, me too :-)
[05:45] <wallyworld> so don't do anything
[05:48] <wgrant> Anyone up for reducing some test coverage? :)
[05:49] <StevenK> ... and doing what?
[05:49] <StevenK> wallyworld: Does you approve? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/936472/
[05:49]  * wallyworld looks
[05:50] <wallyworld> StevenK: i think you should be able to use find() and compare to None or a single object rather than a list
[05:52] <StevenK> wallyworld: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/936477/
[05:53] <wallyworld> StevenK: looks ok, thanks for doing the change
[05:53] <wgrant> https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/trim-bugtask-search-tests/+merge/102628 is a pretty simple one if someone has a sec
[05:54] <StevenK> At +180/-161 ?
[05:54] <wgrant> Mostly moved tests
[05:55] <wgrant> The real diff is about 40 lines
[05:55] <wgrant> Everything else is just splitting one base class into two.
[05:55] <wgrant> With no code changes.
[05:56] <StevenK> wgrant: r=me
[05:57] <wgrant> Thanks.
[05:57] <wgrant> Tomorrow I'll cut it by another 60% :)
[06:00] <StevenK> wallyworld: Can haz approve?
[06:00] <wallyworld> diff there? let me look
[06:00] <StevenK> wallyworld: Yes, it's updated.
[06:01] <wallyworld> it's been really slow of late
[06:01] <StevenK> It did the initial diff very quick
[06:02] <StevenK> I'm still slightly annoyed that I somehow managed to create 3 MPs
[06:02] <wallyworld> i reckon my last few mps have taken aaaaggges
[06:02] <wallyworld> r=me anyway
[06:07] <StevenK> wallyworld: Are the changes in http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/936490/ actually testable?
[06:08] <wallyworld> StevenK: for starters i'd move all the js to a yui module and out of the tal
[06:09] <wallyworld> then you may be able to test something
[06:09] <wallyworld> otherwise no
[06:09] <wallyworld> what i've seen done (/me shudders) is to test that the tal/generated html contains a specific js snippet
[06:10] <wallyworld> but, ew
[06:10] <wgrant> That makes people like me very sad :)
[06:10] <wallyworld> yep, me too :-(
[06:10] <StevenK> wallyworld: It deserves a large refactor, but I don't want to do it now.
[06:11] <StevenK> The filebug macros template is disgusting
[06:11] <wallyworld> StevenK: sure, but at least put the js in a js file
[06:11] <wallyworld> even if no tests are added etc
[06:11] <StevenK> wallyworld: Sorry, but I don't want to. Bug:+filebug is a house of cards on a bed of quicksand.
[06:12] <wallyworld> ok, you're the one doing the work so i can't make you :-)
[06:12] <wallyworld> i would have
[06:12] <wallyworld> better get it done before tomorrow when i'm ocr :-P
[06:14] <StevenK> Hah
[06:18] <wallyworld> StevenK: i'm putting up a branch which fixes those DBType JSON errors so hopefully those oops will disappear soon. gotta get the new lazr.json code reviewed also so it won't hit prod till next week
[06:19] <StevenK> \o/
[07:53] <adeuring> good morning
[08:03] <StevenK> Hmm, where am I supposed to get rabbitmq-server 2.6.1?
[08:15] <lifeless> 2.7.1?
[08:24] <czajkowski> morning all
[08:26] <czajkowski> lifeless: the blessed juju charm bug is back - https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/983530
[08:26] <_mup_> Bug #983530: "charms" needs branch name consistency <juju:Invalid> <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/983530 >
[08:51] <maxb> czajkowski: But we've got ~6 months before anyone needs to run branch-distro again, so no rush :-)
[08:52] <StevenK> Unlikely
[08:52] <maxb> ?
[08:53] <maxb> oh, the version question
[08:53] <StevenK> maxb: Won't we run it for q?
[08:53] <StevenK> In two weeks
[08:53] <maxb> oh, perhaps I'm extrapolating wrongly
[08:54] <maxb> It seemed that juju only branched for precise recently
[08:54] <maxb> It's still no big deal, I already wrote them a 5 line launchpadlib script to fix things up after branch-distro
[09:23] <jml> hey ho
[09:23] <czajkowski> herro
[09:30] <jml> my branch failed buildbot: https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/builders/lucid_lp/builds/1994/steps/shell_6/logs/summary
[09:30] <wgrant> jml: There was an intermittent failure
[09:30] <jml> I haven't done any serious probing yet, but I've got no idea how that failure is related to my change
[09:30] <wgrant> jml: It should be on qastaging now
[09:30] <jml> wgrant: oh. hmm.
[09:30] <wgrant> I reverted the problematic revision several hours ago
[09:30] <wgrant> With the minor issue that qastaging appears to be down
[09:30] <wgrant> Like, not accepting connections
[09:30] <wgrant> It worked a minute ago..
[09:31] <wgrant> There we are
[09:32] <jml> are you guys going to serialize landings again once parallel testing is up?
[09:32]  * jml is guessing not, but you know, a boy can dream
[09:32] <wgrant> Not initially
[09:32] <wgrant> It wouldn't have helped this time, either.
[09:32] <wgrant> The first two test runs passed.
[09:33] <wgrant> But my 6 ec2 runs hit various combinations of the two flaky tests failing.
[09:33] <jml> wgrant: right. intermittent failures are the devil.
[09:33] <wgrant> jml: qastaging's apidoc says createPPA has a commercial argument, so it looks to be there
[09:33] <wgrant> Yeah
[09:33] <jml> oh hey, I wrote a script
[09:34] <wgrant> No idea how these are happening; need to poke jcsackett.
[09:37] <jml> .huh
[09:38] <jml> as best as I can tell, createPPA() returns a dict of the attributes of the person that the ppa is being created on
[09:38] <jml> which, uhh, is weird
[09:39] <wgrant> jml: You can't say lp.me.foomethod
[09:39] <wgrant> Because lp.me is a redirect
[09:39] <wgrant> And POSTs aren't allowed to follow redirects
[09:39] <wgrant> So lp.me is reasonably useless.
[09:39] <jml> yes.
[09:39] <jml> but only marginally more so than the rest of lazr.rest*
[09:39] <wgrant> :)
[09:41] <jml> jml is not allowed to make commercial PPAs
[09:41] <jml> \o/
[09:41] <wgrant> Oh, I thought you were already a commercial-admin
[09:42] <jml> ok. now I need to go away before I start thinking too hard about createPPA's brokenness
[09:44] <wgrant> What's borked?
[09:44] <jml> You had to ask.
[09:45] <jml>             role = IPersonRoles(person)
[09:45] <jml>             if not (role.in_admin or role.in_commercial_admin):
[09:45] <jml> does that work if 'person' is a team?
[09:46] <jml> If 'person' is in admin but the team they are creating the ppa for is not then presumably that check won't pass
[09:46] <wgrant> It should always be checking on the current user, not the person who is being operated on.
[09:46] <jml> as validatePPA() is called by createPPA with the person being operated on
[09:46] <wgrant> Now, it probably isn't, because a lot of our code is fucking moronic.
[09:46] <wgrant> But it *should* be.
[09:46] <jml> wgrant: yeah, that's the brokenness I was talking about
[09:46] <jml> wgrant: and, uhh, well put.
[09:48] <jml> another part of the problem is that there are all of these rules, but they are expressed imperatively (not great), spread out in a bunch of different places (worse), and often partially and imperfectly duplicate one another (rotten, but a natural consequence of the first two)
[09:49] <wgrant> Mmm
[09:49] <wgrant> Being imperative isn't the problem. Being inconsistent and distributed and buggy and otherwise generally horrid is.
[09:50] <jml> it's not *the* problem, no.  but if you could express your permission rules as data, I'm pretty sure a lot of other things would fall into place
[09:50] <wgrant> That's true.
[09:51] <jml> we were talking a bit about this when we did one of these recent branches
[09:51] <jml> zcml security has no way of expressing "passing in private as True to this method is restricted"
[09:51] <wgrant> Right.
[09:52] <wgrant> That has plagued us forever.
[09:52] <jml> and even if you kludged around it by having a createPrivate method, that wouldn't be enough
[09:52] <wgrant> And then there are things like "privilege X must be held on this argument"
[09:52] <jml> because you would need a new permission
[09:53] <wgrant> Traditional Zope security is pretty much useless for anything.
[09:53] <wgrant> Counterproductive, even.
[09:53] <jml> e.g. I can create branches in ~jml/+junk, but no one else can. I cannot create private branches.
[09:53] <wgrant> Because it is based entirely on the (object, attrname)
[09:53] <jml> it's a good type checker? maybe?
[09:53]  * jml doesn't really believe that.
[09:55] <jml> wgrant: can I get commercial-admin on qastaging?
[09:56] <wgrant> webops: please add jml to commercial-admins on qastaging
[09:56] <jml> ta
[09:56] <jml> (although, huh, what a colossal waste of their time when they could be deploying my software)
[09:56] <mthaddon> jml, wgrant: done
[09:56] <wgrant> Heh
[09:56] <wgrant> mthaddon: Thanks
[09:56] <jml> mthaddon: thanks.
[09:59] <jml> and there was much rejoicing.
[10:00] <jml> wgrant: did you watch the "Simple made easy" talk that Gary shopped around?
[10:01] <wgrant> jml: No. Should I?
[10:02] <jml> wgrant: I think so.
[10:02] <wgrant> I think I recall the email
[10:02] <jml> wgrant: although reading my blog post about it is probably an almost acceptable alternative.
[10:03] <wgrant> Your blog posts are often quite acceptable indeed.
[10:03] <jml> personally I'd rather digest things as text rather than audio
[10:03] <jml> wgrant: thank you :)
[10:03] <jml> but it is a pretty good talk.
[10:03] <wgrant> Yeah, reading is a tad faster than listening to an hour of waffling..
[10:03] <wgrant> I wish everything came with transcripts :)
[10:04] <wgrant> jml: Care to leave commercial-admins now you're done?
[10:04] <jml> +1
[10:04] <wgrant> It's a reasonably powerful team, so the fewer unneeded members the better.
[10:04] <jml> wgrant: sure.
[10:04] <wgrant> Thanks.
[10:04] <jml> the whole point of this exercise is to reduce the need to be a member.
[11:58] <jml> \o/
[11:58] <jml> I think I've just isolated this bug.
[11:59] <benji> jml: would that be the tag leakage?
[11:59] <jml> gary_poster: hi
[12:00] <jml> benji: yes indeed.
[12:00] <benji> cool
[12:00] <gary_poster> hey jml
[12:00] <gary_poster> sounds like you have addressed both of y concerns from last night :-) thank you
[12:00] <jml> well, the tag filtering thing is still wip
[12:00] <benji> I'm a little jealous, it looked like a fun one to tackle.  The downside of multi-timzone cooperation, I guess. ;)
[12:01] <jml> I have to page it back in and remember what needs to be done for that.
[12:01] <jml> lp:~jml/testrepository/tag-leakage/ has my steps to isolation
[12:01] <jml> going to knock up a patch to testtools now
[12:01] <jml> benji: I probably should have left it. :\
[12:01] <gary_poster> jml, for tag filtering, we're happy to help, as you'd expect.  I'd love to see if we can get a rough version in our PPA though, if it works
[12:01] <jml> gary_poster: cool.
[12:11] <benji> jml: do you think your branch is suitable for us to play with in our PPA
[12:11] <jml> benji: no idea, I'm afraid.
[12:11] <jml> benji: I didn't deliberately put any remote root exploits in it.
[12:13] <benji> heh
[12:17] <benji> jml: do you want us to pick up the torch on the tag leakage or are you just about done?
[12:17] <jml> benji: just finishing up.
[12:17] <benji> great!
[12:18] <jml> am going to merge without review.
[12:18] <jml> hmm.
[12:21] <jml> merge and pushed
[12:25] <jml> :(
[12:25] <jml> ok, I think filter-tags will need a little bit of work.
[12:26] <jml> the ideal thing to do is release testtools and then burn subunit.TestResultDecorator
[12:26] <gary_poster> heh
[12:26] <jml> but that would mean a lock-step upgrade and we don't like those
[12:27] <gary_poster> though doable
[12:27] <jml> I'm not sure if it makes sense for you guys to pick up on it, tbh.
[12:27] <jml> yeah
[12:27] <jml> I'd like to spend a bit more time paging all of this in so I'm clearer on the release/dependency issues
[12:28] <gary_poster> ok, understood.  it's blocking us, which I hate to admit. um.
[12:30] <jml> gary_poster: sure. I'll get to it post food then.
[12:31] <gary_poster> jml, wow, thank you.  I was contemplating nasty hacks.
[12:31] <gary_poster> that would be fabulous.
[12:31] <jml> gary_poster: my pleasure.
[12:31] <jml> gary_poster: somewhat relatedly, I'm sure my manager always enjoys hearing nice things about me.
[12:31] <gary_poster> jml, lol, can do
[12:32] <jml> leaving this cafe for another one with better food.
[13:04] <deryck> Morning, everyone.
[13:29] <benji> jml: am I reading your comment at https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/testrepository/add-worker-id-tagging/+merge/102574/comments/221132 correctly in that without the ExtendedToOriginalDecorator you get correctly-tagged output?  I'm trying to figure out if ExtendedToOriginalDecorator is needed, and it doesn't look like it.
[13:30] <jml> benji: I get that test failure without it. Because addSuccess() is passed details but LoggingResult doesn't implement it.
[13:31] <benji> jml: right, I've fixed the test failure (I had hacked the testtools I was using, but I now have a test fix that doesn't require that hack).  I'm now interested in whether or not I'll need the ExtendedToOriginalDecorator to get correct output.  I don't think we do.
[13:34] <jml> benji: basically only use it if you don't control the result that goes in.
[13:34] <benji> jml: right, that's what I was thinking; since we control the entire stack of results there, we should be good
[13:36] <jml> benji: ok.
[13:36] <jml> benji: if the tests pass.
[13:36] <benji> indeed they do
[13:51] <rick_h> jcsackett: bah, sorry completely missed it was thurs
[13:52] <jcsackett> rick_h: all good. :-)
[14:27] <sinzui> jcsackett, do you have a few minutes to talk?
[14:27] <jcsackett> sinzui: sure. lemme go find my phone and i'll get on G+.
[14:30] <jcsackett> sinzui: ready when you are.
[14:30] <deryck> abentley, hi.  chat time now ok?
[14:30] <abentley> deryck: sure.
[14:31] <sinzui> jcsackett, I an in the g messenger hangout
[14:32] <jcsackett> huh. so am i. i'll quit and come back in.
[14:32] <deryck> abentley, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/d030c97575c1cc09b3ba584164c3d8e5baf17a0e
[14:35] <sinzui> jcsackett, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/936950/
[14:54] <sinzui> jcsackett, r=me for the privacy adapter branch
[16:35] <benji> jml: any hints on running the subunit tests?  runtests.py gives me an import error and I don't see anything in the README about any neccesary setup
[16:42] <jelmer> benji: have you tried 'make check' ?
[16:43] <benji> jelmer: yep, not a make target
[16:45] <benji> there is a Makefile.am and configure.ac that look tantalizing, if I knew what they wanted me to do with them
[16:45] <jelmer> benji: autoreconf -i && ./configure && make && make check
[16:52] <benji> jelmer: ah, autoreconf
[17:33] <bac> has launchpad-developer-dependencies gone away?
[17:40] <bac> nm, i see it is built as part of launchpad-dependencies in the ppa
[18:05] <sinzui> rick_h, do you have time to review https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/launchpad/project-notify-5/+merge/102734
[18:10] <rick_h> sinzui: sure thing
[18:33] <rick_h> sinzui: ping, question for you
[18:33] <sinzui> hi rick_h
[18:33] <rick_h> sinzui: so shuoldn't there be some code that creates these jobs?
[18:34] <rick_h> or is that a follow up?
[18:34] <rick_h> I would imagine there's something that queries for upcoming expiring projects to deactivate via a query somewhere?
[18:34] <sinzui> per the cover letter, I ran out of room and time
[18:34] <sinzui> My next branch will deal with that
[18:35] <rick_h> ah gotcha, sorry. Read that but thuoght of it as something different
[20:09]  * deryck heads home now
[20:29] <sinzui> Instead of fixing a trivial bug that affects a few users, I found a non-trivial bug that indicates our sprites will break in all browsers in the future.
[20:30] <sinzui> I am going to look for something to delete instead
[22:15] <lifeless> sinzui: sounds fun ?
[23:13] <lifeless> sinzui: you found a dupe
[23:23] <sinzui> well. I pleased to have accomplished something
[23:23] <lifeless> sinzui: \o/
[23:24] <sinzui> This issue is not about asymeteric packing though. It really is about the size of the image. I agree it can be a dupe because one fix is needed.
[23:49] <wgrant> StevenK, wallyworld: A quick one if someone has a sec: https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/bugtaskflat-join-removal/+merge/102780
[23:49] <wgrant> 39 lines (+8/-7) 1 file modified
[23:51] <nigelb> Morning.
[23:51] <wgrant> Morning nigelb.
[23:52] <nigelb> 0430 is awfully early to be awake :/
[23:54]  * wallyworld looks
[23:55] <wallyworld> wgrant: all the tests pass?
[23:57] <wgrant> wallyworld: Yes.
[23:58] <wallyworld> wgrant: was flat_bug_join already defined?
[23:58] <wgrant> wallyworld: Yeah, it's used in the sorts higher up.
[23:58] <wgrant> flat_bug_join = (Bug, Join(Bug, Bug.id == BugTaskFlat.bug_id))
[23:58] <wgrant> flat_bugtask_join = ( BugTask, Join(BugTask, BugTask.id == BugTaskFlat.bugtask_id))
[23:59] <wallyworld> ok, r=me
[23:59] <wgrant> Thanks.


[00:23] <newboon2age_> Hey all, I need support -- my laptop is stuck  on the plymouth boot splash http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1519312
[00:26] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, maybe you could give the output of "cat /etc/udev/rules.d/80-canon_mfp.rules"?
[00:27] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: okay, let me go get it...
[00:29] <pedro3005> "The value of variable $myhostname is "blahblah", but should have been a fully qualified domain name;" ...
[00:29] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: okay i posted it on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1519312
[00:32] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, you could try temporarily uninstalling amavis, as it seems to be having issues
[00:33] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: so you mean like just use synaptics to uninstall it?
[00:33] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, yeah
[00:34] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: ok, checking into that now...
[00:36] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: okay its doing it.  with the rules file, do you think it should be ATTR (event device) or ATTRS (parent device)?
[00:36] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, not sure, but I doubt that is causing it not to boot
[00:39] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: okay, i'm trying ATTR ...  So should i reboot now, or are there other things we should do first?
[00:40] <pedro3005> reboot, I guess
[00:40] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: here goes...
[00:43] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: looks stuck
[00:46] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, anything different in the logs?
[00:46] <Phrea> is there a way to install Apache on something else than / ?
[00:46] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: okay i'll log in.  which ones should i check?
[00:47] <Phrea> I've got loads of stuff to share on an ntfs disk, and I'd love to just share it via Apache
[00:47] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, bootlog
[00:49] <Phrea> I know how to share via the apache server, but I can't seem to redirect it to my mp3 dir [which is a partition on an ntfs disk]
[00:49] <Phrea> I tried editing the files to /media/mp3/
[00:49] <Phrea> didn't work
[00:51] <Phrea> ANYTHING is ok, so long as my contacts can reach it via their browser [www/ip, NOT FTP]
[00:52] <Phrea> I do not care about what http server it is
[00:54] <Phrea> http://i.imgur.com/GCk5M.png the highlighted disk/partition is the one I want to share
[00:57] <Phrea> it's all legal content
[00:57] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: had to reboot, sorry for the delay... it'll be a bit longer
[01:00] <Phrea> what's the FULL path to say /media/mp3? [device seems to be /dev/sdb]
[01:00] <pedro3005> /dev/sdb/media/mp3 I guess
[01:00] <Phrea> ...can't be...
[01:01] <Phrea> THAT simple?
[01:01] <Phrea> I'm about to feel a fool, aren't I...
[01:09] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: I reposted it, but it doesn't look right, so i think i'm going to boot again, wait longer and check again.
[01:28] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: i reposted it... this time its feeding debub something about slapd.  don't know what it is but probably not something i really need...
[01:31] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: i'm looking up slapd, its related to  lldap and probably was installed when i was playing around with ebox.  i'll try to  uninstall it...
[01:56] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: okay i uninstalled slapd and virtualbox 3.2, and reintalled postgres (due to some messages i saw),  now rebooting
[01:59] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: still seems to be stalling...
[01:59] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, :/
[01:59] <pedro3005> Man, I guess I wouldn't know. you should await any answers at the forums
[02:00] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: where do i look to find out what programs are getting automatically started, cuz i didn't consciously tell postgress or slapd or some of these other things to autostart.
[02:01] <pedro3005> newboon2age_, try System > Preferences > Startup Applications
[02:01] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: i know about that one and i'll check it again, but is there a script that i should look at?
[02:02] <pedro3005> not that I'm aware of, but what do I know
[02:02] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: a LOT more than me. :)
[02:03] <seidos> newboon2age_, I think initialization scripts are in /etc/init.d
[02:03] <seidos> or something
[02:03] <newboon2age_> seidos: ty, i'll check that
[02:03] <seidos> though rc.d rings a bell :|
[02:04] <seidos> newboon2age_, you can try using grep to search /etc/init.d/ for text that matches the programs you're interested in
[02:05] <newboon2age_> seidos: pedro3005: one thing i just found was that in startup apps the network manager was checked, even though i'd removed (at least parts of) it and replaced it with wicd.
[02:06] <seidos> newboon2age_, oh yeah, startup apps
[02:07] <newboon2age_> seidos: pedro3005: also wicd was checked.  So having both nm and wicd on at the same time, that could have had an effect.
[02:07] <seidos> newboon2age_, were you having networking troubles?
[02:08] <newboon2age_> seidos: at one point i was, although that seemed to go away.  now just the problem with getting stuck on the plymouth boot splahs indefinitely.
[02:08] <newboon2age_> seidos: pedro3005: rebooting...
[02:08] <seidos> newboon2age_, good luck
[02:09] <newboon2age_> seidos: pedro3005: seems stuck...
[02:10]  * seidos hates splash screens :|
[02:13] <newboon2age_> seidos: pedro3005: while i'm at it, does anyone know how to turn off the  splash?
[02:14] <seidos> newboon2age_, I think you hit esc at the grub menu
[02:14] <seidos> then e to edit the line you are booting from, and remove "quiet splash"
[02:19] <newboon2age_> seidos: okay, next time i boot i'll try that.
[02:20] <newboon2age_> seidos: does that mean everything in the init.d directory gets started?
[02:20] <seidos> newboon2age_, I can't say for sure, but I think so.
[02:20] <newboon2age_> seidos: wow!
[02:21] <seidos> newboon2age_, don't get *too* excited, I don't know for sure
[02:21] <seidos> and I'm not really sure how to check
[02:21] <seidos> I guess a google search
[02:23] <seidos> newboon2age_, well, it looks like if you have a script you want to run at startup, you put it in /etc/init.d/  so everything that is marked executable should run at startup
[02:23] <newboon2age_> seidos: in the plymouth-log file it says "the script your are attempting to invoke has been converted to an Upstart job, you may also use the $COMMAND utility, e.g. $COMMAND $JOB
[02:24] <seidos> newboon2age_, you lost me with plymouth-log
[02:25] <newboon2age_> seidos: So what i get from that is there are two different startup methods, the older one w/ init.d and the newer one with Upstart
[02:25] <seidos> newboon2age_, maybe, I don't know.  I don't have a "plymouth-log" on my system.  I'm not sure what an "upstart" job is
[02:26] <seidos> there doesn't appear to be a $COMMAND utility with a man page
[02:27] <newboon2age_> seidos: i think Upstart is the new way of doing startup jobs.  i  saw something about it on the forums or web...
[02:27] <newboon2age_> seidos: it says Usage: upstart-job JOB COMMAND
[02:28] <seidos> newboon2age_, I don't have Upstart, I'm using 9.04.  You're using 10.04?
[02:29] <newboon2age_> seidos: yes, that's probably something that was added in Karmic
[02:30] <newboon2age_> anyway plymouth-log is  one of the scripts in init.d
[02:30] <seidos> ah, strange
[02:39] <newboon2age_> pedro3005: seidos: i reposted my current boot.log and dmesg at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1519312
[02:39] <stlsaint> Guest10247: sup man
[02:41]  * seidos waves at stlsaint
[02:41] <seidos> pedro3005, this gspace add on is pretty nice
[02:41] <seidos> I like it better than ubuntu-one I think
[02:42] <pedro3005> cool
[02:43] <seidos> newboon2age_, an idea while I'm reading this post, have you tried typing startx from the shell?
[02:45] <newboon2age_> seidos: no, i can try it.  Do you mean after it stalls, but before restarting gdm?
[02:51] <seidos> you wrote that you can get to tty1-5
[02:51] <newboon2age_> seidos: pedro3005: i posted the Xorg.log also
[02:51] <seidos> I was thinking from within tty1 or something
[02:51] <seidos> newboon2age_, ^^
[02:53] <newboon2age_> seidos: yes, so boot, and when it stalls go to tty1 and do startx rather than restarting gdm? (knowing that gdm is stalled in the background of course)
[02:57] <seidos> pedro3005, I take it back on gspace, it looks like I can't save files > 19MB, which excludes my ~400MB tar backup file
[02:58] <seidos> newboon2age_, I'm not sure if gdm is stalled in the background, are you saying x is starting without gnome?
[02:58] <pedro3005> seidos, too bad :/
[02:59] <seidos> newboon2age_, I was thinking that gdm was failing to load, not that it was stuck trying to load.  but it doesn't matter, if you startx, you could at least see how far x gets before it fails
[02:59] <seidos> newboon2age_, might give you some more clues to what's going on under the hood
[03:00] <newboon2age_> seidos: oh i gotcha
[03:02] <newboon2age_> seidos: i think i found previously when i tried a gdm start command that it said gdm was already running.  Then instead i did restart and it worked.
[03:03] <seidos> newboon2age_, what was the gdm start command?
[03:03] <newboon2age_> seidos: i think it was sudo service gdm start
[03:04] <seidos> never heard of it :|
[03:04]  * seidos tries it
[03:05] <seidos> it worked :|
[03:07] <newboon2age_> seidos: yes that was it and it says 'start: Job is already running: gdm'
[03:34] <newboon2age_> seidos: i rebooted, and when i tried startx, it gave "Gatal server error: Server is already active for display 0, If this server is no longer running, remove /tmp/.S0-lock and start again.
[03:36] <newboon2age_> seidos: i meant Fatal, not Gatak
[03:36] <newboon2age_> seidos: i meant Fatal, not Gatal
[03:37] <seidos> newboon2age_, I dunno if I can really help without having lucid installed.  It looks like things might be too different, I dunno though.  I haven't finished reading your forum post :|
[03:38] <seidos> newboon2age_, here's an idea, you could try another window manager, like xfce, see if it boots, if it doesn't, then you know the problem is probably in xorg
[03:38] <newboon2age_> seidos: if there's any diagnostic info like logs you want me to post, just let me know
[03:39] <seidos> newboon2age_, maybe I should finish reading this forum post before I recommend anything, I'm just trying to think of what I would do
[04:21] <newboon2age_> seidos: Phrea: i just posted the dpkg log, since the problems started after the upgrade manager ran a 'dist-upgrade' and required a restart.
[04:23] <seidos> newboon2age_, I read the xorg log, I didn't see any errors in it
[04:24] <seidos> newboon2age_, I hate to ask, but have you tried fail safe mode?
[04:24] <newboon2age_> seidos: i'm not sure what it is
[04:27] <newboon2age_> seidos: how do i do that?
[04:27] <seidos> before it boots, grub gives you an option to select fail safe mode
[04:27]  * seidos scratches his head
[04:28] <seidos> you might have to hit esc to show it.  sorry, haven't done it in awhile.
[04:28] <seidos> I'm pretty sure lucid still has failsafe mode
[04:28] <seidos> newboon2age_, I don't know, but if plymouth is causing the problem maybe you can disable it or remove it
[04:29] <Fanshawe> Hello everyone. Evolution runs the setup assistant, even though I've already set up an account. Any idea what's happening?
[04:31] <newboon2age_> seidos: last time i booted i tried to remove the quiet splash, but must have done something wrong because i still got the splash.
[04:32] <newboon2age_> seidos: i did try reinstalling plymouth, but it didn't change the symptoms.  i saw references to a plymouth log but i don't know how to turn it on.
[04:34] <seidos> newboon2age_, well, without more information on plymouth, AND without having it installed, I don't think I can be of any more help.  I'm basically out of ideas.
[04:34] <seidos> if I think of anything I can let you know
[04:35] <newboon2age_> seidos: while i'm looking at the dpkg log could you please look up anything you can find about plymouth log like how to turn it on, where it is located, etc?
[04:37] <seidos> newboon2age_, I was looking on the forums to see if anyone else was having trouble with plymouth.  I found a few articles, they recommended against turning it off.  Well, let me ask you this, how do you *know* the problem is with plymouth?  I'll see what I can find on the plymouth log
[04:38] <newboon2age_> seidos: i reallly am not at all sure that the problem is with plymouth.
[04:39] <newboon2age_> seidos: if i can get it to not show the splash though that might help
[04:40] <seidos> newboon2age_, were you able to remove "quiet splash" in grub?
[04:41] <newboon2age_> seidos: last time i booted i tried to remove the quiet splash, but must have done something wrong because i still got the splash.
[04:44] <seidos> newboon2age_, what did you do to remove quiet splash?
[04:45] <newboon2age_> seidos: i did as you said, but after i made the change i wasn't sure if there was something to do to save the change.  i couldn't find one and i think i hit esc and went back to the main menu.  So i don't think i did it right.
[04:50] <seidos> newboon2age_, hmmm, there might be a way to save.  I'm not sure.  I did a web search, couldn't find anything on lucid lynx
[04:51] <newboon2age_> seidos: i think it said something about supporting e-macs style editing.  do you know how to save in e-macs?
[04:52] <seidos> newboon2age_, I don't use emacs, I've used vim and nano
[04:56] <newboon2age_> seidos: okay, i'm going to try rebooting again...
[04:57] <seidos> newboon2age_, I couldn't find any information on what file to edit to remove the splash screen.  the only way I know is how I told you.  good luck
[04:58] <newboon2age_> seidos: about to reboot...
[05:02] <newboon2age_> seidos: okay that time i still didn't figure out how to save, but i just did the cntl-x to reboot w/o the 'splash quiet' line and lo and behold it got to the gdm logon successfully.  cautious optimism here...
[05:02] <tenach> ello.
[05:03] <newboon2age_> tenach: ello... still working on that prob we were working on the other day, though it seems there might be a breakthrough...
[05:05] <seidos> newboon2age_, what is ctrl-x supposed to do?
[05:06] <newboon2age_> seidos: i was at the grub edit screen and it said something about ctrl-x to reboot, esc to return to the main menu.  The previous time after i made the change, i did esc, this time i did cntl-x
[05:07] <newboon2age_> seidos: okay, i rebooted yet again and still stalling at plymouth.  so i'll try it again w/o the splash quiet part and see what happens.
[05:09] <seidos> newboon2age_, I don't think that removing the splash will fix it, I'm just thinking it might shed some light on what ubuntu is doing while it is stuck at the splash screen.  Incidentally, how long have you given it to get past the splash screen?
[05:10] <newboon2age_> seidos: prob is it goes by too fast for me to follow.
[05:11] <newboon2age_> seidos: okay again w/o the quiet splash it goes to gdm logon successfully.  hmm....  to answer your question at first i was giving it 10 minutes or more, but lately i haven't had that much patience, so more like 5 minutes
[05:13] <seidos> newboon2age_, yeah, but if it gets stuck, then it shouldn't be moving fast, know what I'm saying?
[05:13] <newboon2age_> seidos: oh, and just to let you know it turns out its hold the shift key during boot to get the grub menu
[05:14] <newboon2age_> seidos: true.
[05:14] <seidos> newboon2age_, oh, I thought it was escape, maybe I should reboot and practice.  I think it used to be esc
[05:14] <newboon2age_> seidos: might have changed as you say...
[05:15] <seidos> yeah, I'll have to try next time I reboot, I'm trying to do this programming challenge
[05:15] <newboon2age_> seidos: well, okay so removing the 'quiet splash' thing avoids the problem.  But i think that's what triggers plymouth
[05:16] <seidos> but I've been having a pretty lousy time with it
[05:16] <newboon2age_> seidos: is that the challengge to fix a bug?
[05:16] <seidos> newboon2age_, well, I'm not sure how plymouth fits into the boot scheme
[05:17] <seidos> newboon2age_, no.  I wish.  I tried fixing a bug once, couldn't do it.  Now I'm trying to get good enough so I can.
[05:17] <seidos> hard to say what's a bug though...
[05:18] <newboon2age_> that fix a bug challenge is what i want to be doing right now, if i didn't have to fix this thing. :/
[05:19] <seidos> well, it's all learning.  right now programming as a subject and ubuntu as a subject are way too disparate
[05:19] <seidos> so it's cool to try and help you out, see what I can do to help, and maybe learn something about lucid lynx
[05:20] <win_2_linux> so newboon2age  so things are starting to come together for you
[05:22] <newboon2age_> seidos: yes its all a learning experience.  i'm REALLY ready to be over this one though.
[05:22] <win_2_linux> you all probably now this but I just discovered this, but windows  is trying to imitate compiz with the cube
[05:22] <win_2_linux> now = know
[05:23] <win_2_linux> saw it on youtube, i though tit was hystical
[05:23] <win_2_linux> though=thought
[05:23] <newboon2age_> win_2_linux: maybe, we'll see if things come together...
[05:24] <zkriesse> Halloo team
[05:24] <win_2_linux> newboon2age you've been working on this problem for a long time, i have to hand it to you, you have patience, perhaps once it gets figured out you'll hold the solution if it happens to someone else
[05:25] <zkriesse> newboon2age_: Way to go..
[05:25]  * zkriesse had an issue like that
[05:25] <zkriesse> Loading Apache2 PHP5 and Firebird RDBMS on an ubuntu system
[05:25] <seidos> newboon2age_, I felt the same way a few times with problems I've run into.  I dunno though, it takes a certain mentality to stick with it I think.  I mean, sometimes the only solution is coding, then what?  I think you move to GNU/Linux for it's potential, and the community.
[05:25] <zkriesse> never been done by anyone else i know
[05:27] <win_2_linux> look at it this way, at least its not windows tech support, where you already know to reboot the computer etc, and you call their tech support and they tell you to do those things you already did, and you tell them that, and they insist you follow what they're saying
[05:28] <win_2_linux> and you tell them you've been through that, then they start reading the scripts and if nothing works they tell you to reinstall and see if that helps
[05:28] <win_2_linux> after an hour waiting on hold lol
[05:30] <newboon2age_> win_2_linux:  oh, totally agree...  its great to have the support here. no question at all..  zkriesse: thanks.  hope to get past this soon...
[05:31] <newboon2age_> zkriesse: are you saying you tried to load both, or are you seeing something in my logs about that?
[05:35] <win_2_linux> yes i've started a blog on my experience with Linux
[05:35] <win_2_linux> I thought it would be fun to write about
[05:35] <win_2_linux> its not really a sit there kind of Os is it like windows, you actually have to do a little thinking where in windows it just sits
[05:35] <win_2_linux> going from windows to Linux lol
[05:37] <seidos> going from windows to Linux is like going from ignorance to knowledge
[05:37] <win_2_linux> oh but the withdrawals
[05:37] <newboon2age_> win_2_linux: good idea, please tell us where it is so we can show it to others on the migration
[05:38] <win_2_linux> I just started it today but hold on let get the web address
[05:39] <newboon2age_> seidos: i shortened the dpkg part of the post...http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1519312
[05:39] <kermiac> hey newboon2age_ I just saw on your forum thread that you have an intel card... can you try adding "i915.modeset=1" (without the quotes) to your grub kernel boot line & see if it boots?
[05:41] <newboon2age_> kermiac: i can try that.  do you know how i can make a permanent change to the grub2 boot options so that i don't need to do this manually each time?
[05:42] <win_2_linux> http://linuxfromwin.wordpress.com/
[05:42] <kermiac> yup, one sec while i find the wiki page
[05:42] <kermiac> newboon2age_: ^^
[05:42] <newboon2age_> win_2_linux: cool. ty
[05:42] <win_2_linux> thank yoiu
[05:42] <win_2_linux> working on info to put in tomorrows post.
[05:43] <kermiac> newboon2age_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2#grub%20(/etc/default/grub)
[06:01] <zkriesse> newboon2age_: say what?
[06:02] <newboon2age_> kermiac: win_2_linux seidos well its booting to logon w/ no stall but no plymouth.  its not quite making sense to me because when i bring up the grub2 menu and look at the options, they don't look quite like what i've got in the /etc/default/grub menu.... so i'm still investigating.... much better though... zkriesse
[06:03] <kermiac> newboon2age_: did you try "i915.modeset=1"   ?
[06:03] <newboon2age_> zkriesse: i didn't understand your earlier note about apache2 php and firebird
[06:03] <kermiac> newboon2age_: you add "i915.modeset=1" after "quiet splash"
[06:04] <zkriesse> newboon2age_: Ok you know what Apache is ?
[06:04] <newboon2age_> kermiac: yes, but its not shown in the grub2 options.  don't get me wrong, i'm happy that its sorta working, but i'd like to make sure i know what's going on
[06:05] <newboon2age_> zkriesse: yes,
[06:05] <newboon2age_> zkriesse: you said " Loading Apache2 PHP5 and Firebird RDBMS on an ubuntu system"
[06:05] <kermiac> newboon2age_: it sounds like the Intel KMS issue - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Lucidi8xxFreezes
[06:27] <newboon2age_> kermiac: seidos:  it seems like when you  put GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="i915.modeset=1 quiet splash" it only sees the 'i915.modeset=1 part' and not the 'quiet splash' part AND the 'i915.modeset=1' is not shown on the edit grub2 command options screen
[06:29] <newboon2age_> kermiac: seidos: actually i'm not sure that the modeset command is being recieved by the system, but just that its not taking the quiet splash part.  So i think its just not using any options on the GRUB_CMDLINE_DEFAULT
[06:31] <kermiac> newboon2age_: that may have been the wrong wiki link or the wiki may have been changed. IIRC the option to diable KMS is "i915.modeset=0"
[06:31] <seidos> newboon2age_, are you saying there's not enough room on the line for everything?  that doesn't sound right.  Or are you saying you're still getting splash?  If so, quiet splash keeps the splash, doesn't get rid of it.
[06:32] <newboon2age_> kermiac: also i just noticed that i had the modeset BEFORE the quiet splash part, so i'm experimenting with manually entering it with modeset and then quiet splash.  booting now...
[06:33]  * win_2_linux thinks this is like a mystery and the climax is about to be reached before a happy ending
[06:35] <newboon2age_> kermiac: seidos; win_2_linux: okay that seems to be stalling on plymouth again, so now i'll try modeset=0
[06:36] <seidos> is i915.modeset=0 a kernel option?
[06:36]  * seidos googles
[06:37] <seidos> hmmm, sounds like it
[06:37] <seidos> that's kind of scary
[06:38] <kermiac> seidos: yes, it just disables KMS on intel cards
[06:38] <seidos> kermiac, KMS?  never heard of it
[06:39] <kermiac> seidos: Kernel Mode Setting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting
[06:39] <kermiac> seidos: there's probably a better wiki page on KMS, but that one references the command I gave newboon2age_
[06:40] <kermiac> seidos: it's not scary/ malicious. I've used it & advised others to use it before :)
[06:41] <seidos> kermiac, I wasn't worried that it was "malicious", I'm concerned because I think his problem may not have an easy solution
[06:42] <seidos> if the problem is in the kernel, or even if it's in xorg, what can we do to fix it?
[06:42] <seidos> that's a rhetorical question
[06:42] <seidos> at least for me it is
[06:42] <kermiac> seidos: true... without being a kernel hacker we can only try to work-around the issue :(
[06:43] <seidos> kermiac, I had this problem with the low battery indicator for my laptop
[06:43] <newboon2age_> kermiac: seidos win_2_linux: well different results.  plymouth comes up, does its progress indication then it goes black and i'm still waiting/hoping for the gdm logon screen
[06:43] <seidos> a dead battery later, it's still not fixed.
[06:44] <seidos> newboon2age_, do you get a black screen or a splash screen with graphics?
[06:45] <kermiac> seidos: not good... If i was a kernel hacker I would fix my current biggest issue with the kernel - bug 561190
[06:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 561190 in linux (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.32/net/wireless/core.c:614 wdev_cleanup_work+0xa7/0xd0 [cfg80211]() (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561190
[06:45] <seidos> newboon2age_, have you tried booting with an older kernel?
[06:46] <kermiac> ddecator: ping - I lost all of my logs due to stupidly forgetting to backup my quassell folder. can you please try to search the logs for the last time I mentioned "i915.modeset=" in here? It would have been either early this month or late last month
[06:47] <kermiac> ddecator: I've been going through the irclogs website but cant find it :(
[06:47] <seidos> kermiac, I think my problem could be fixed in gnome-power-manager, but "fixing" it might break things for others.  I wrote a perl script to notify me when my battery is low, but I just keep it plugged in, since my battery's capacity is permanently broken.
[06:47] <ddecator> kermiac: sure thing mate
[06:47] <newboon2age_> seidos: plymouth graphics splash screen then black
[06:47] <kermiac> thanks Dray :)
[06:47] <seidos> newboon2age_, try one more thing, go into your grub menu, and see if you have an older kernel you can try booting from
[06:47] <kermiac> seidos: that's a really nasty bug
[06:48] <seidos> 561190?
[06:48] <kermiac> no, your one that killed the battery
[06:48] <newboon2age_> seidos: i do have some older kernels that i can try.  i think we tried them the other night, but i can do it again.
[06:48] <kermiac> mine is just annoying
[06:48] <seidos> newboon2age_, try the oldest kernel
[06:49] <ddecator> kermiac: you mentioned it a few times...want me to pm you what i have?
[06:49] <seidos> kermiac, here's the problem, I can't really say it's a bug (I mean, if it's a bug, where is the bug?), and I can't say the bug really caused the broken battery.  Had I known that fully draining a battery was bad for the battery, I would still have a battery with nominal capacity
[06:49] <kermiac> ddecator: I'm leaving work now, if you find anything in your logs pls pm me. I'm after what extra parameter the guy added
[06:50] <kermiac> oh, yes please Dray, that would be better :)
[06:50] <ddecator> kermiac: oh, you mean...i'll pm it, haha
[06:50] <kermiac> thanks Dray :)
[06:52] <newboon2age_> seidos: kermiac: ddecator: okay that worked.  I used kernel 21 instead of 23 and "splash i915.modeset=0'  (didn't use 'quiet'')... Checking further...
[06:53] <ddecator> newboon2age_: oh...good to hear :D
[06:53] <seidos> newboon2age_, \o/
[06:54] <win_2_linux> so your computer is up now newboon2age
[06:55] <newboon2age_> kermiac: ddecator: seidos: one caveat so far, during logon there were several wierd video blinking (sort of looked like jumping from one half-loaded screen to another)...  checking f
[06:55] <seidos> newboon2age_, that might just be how the hacked boot up process functions
[06:57] <newboon2age_> win_2_linux: yes, since earlier when we discovered that taking the 'quiet splash' out of the line it would boot, but just w/o the plymouth boot screen.  I was much releved from that point on, though my preference is that it work as designed, w/ plymouth and no stall.
[06:57] <ddecator> yah, plymouth still looks awful for me because i use the proprietary nvidia drivers :/
[06:58] <kermiac> ok, I'm heading home now... see you all later :)
[06:58] <win_2_linux> well at least its up....the other can be worked on
[06:58] <win_2_linux> a happy ending
[06:58] <newboon2age_> kermiac: seidos ddecator win_2_linux: This may be an issue for others using kernel 23.  I think i had something different in my repositories that gave me that ahead of others. or it could be i've got a mismatch... still checking...
[06:59] <seidos> later kermiac
[06:59] <ddecator> newboon2age_: it's in -proposed. maybe you enabled that repo?
[06:59] <newboon2age_> ddecator: probably... i'll have to check..
[07:08] <win_2_linux> thats a happyending for him thats good
[07:08] <win_2_linux> signing off talk to you all later
[07:26] <newboon2age_> kermiac: ddecator: seidos:  I had the kubuntu experimental ppa in the repositories, but didn't see ubuntu proposed. the problems started after upgrade manager did a 'dist-upgrade'
[07:26] <ddecator> i do dist-upgrades daily, that shouldn't install things from the proposed repo...weird
[07:27] <seidos> ddecator, do you have proposed checked?
[07:27] <ddecator> seidos: nope
[07:27] <newboon2age_> kermiac: ddecator: seidos: thing is i went into synaptic and didn't see how to uninstall kernel 2.6.32-23-generic which seems to be having the problem
[07:28] <newboon2age_> kermiac: seidos: i had the kubuntu experimental checked.  unchecked it now...
[07:29] <seidos> well, did you learn anything from the experiment newboon2age_ ?
[07:29] <newboon2age_> haven't figured out quite how to make the changes in /etc/default/grub stick, because they don't show up when i look at the Grub2 command list screen
[07:29] <newboon2age_> seidos: sure... lots, but i ain't done yet.
[07:30] <seidos> I had a terrible time experimenting with Lucid Lynx Beta 3
[07:30] <seidos> system was totally unstable.  unusable even
[07:31] <newboon2age_> seidos: one thing i learned that i like is that it looks like w/ 23 you get a real progress bar AND an activity indicator.  That was kinda cool.
[07:32] <seidos> hey, that's interesting
[07:33] <ddecator> progress bar and activity indicator for what?
[07:35] <newboon2age_> ddecator: for the plymouth bootup screen
[07:35] <ddecator> ...huh, i wonder if you got a new version of plymouth or a different theme or something
[07:36] <newboon2age_> ddecator: well i *do* have the Ubuntu Studio theme, but even w/ this theme there's a difference between how it works w/ kernel 21 and kernel 23.
[07:37] <ddecator> that's weird
[07:38] <newboon2age_> ddecator: kermiac seidos: it looks like in my setup anyway kernel 23 just doesn't like plymouth, because the thing that makes the difference is the 'splash' kernel option .  in 23 if its not there, it boots okay, if its there, stall
[07:39] <ddecator> well no wonder it hasn't been released yet :p
[07:39] <seidos> night all
[07:39] <newboon2age_> seidos: night and ty for your help!!!!
[07:40] <ddecator> night seidos
[07:42] <newboon2age_> kermiac: ddecator seidos: okay, kernel 22 also works w/ plymouth in my system.  its just kernel 23.  Now the question is how do i get 23 off my system given that it doesn't seem to show up in Synaptic?
[07:45] <newboon2age_> kermiac: ddecator: seidos: and then a secondary question is how do i get the kernel options to be properly loaded from the /etc/default/grub file (yes i remembered each time to do a grub-update to recreate the configuration).
[07:46] <ddecator> you should be able to remove linux-headers-2.6.32-23, linux-headers-2.6.32-23-generic, linux-image-2.6.32-23-generic
[07:48] <newboon2age_> ddecator: kermiac: okay i found a synaptic entry for linux-image-2.6.32-33-generic ... but no corresponding 'header' -- that couldn't help
[07:49] <newboon2age_> ddecator: kermiac: i think i'd removed the 'header' package in earlier troubleshooting attempts.
[07:49] <ddecator> newboon2age_: that could explain some of the problems...
[07:49] <ddecator> if you have all three removed, it should use -22 :)
[07:50] <newboon2age_> ddecator: kermiac: yes it could, although only the more recent iterations of the problems.
[07:50] <ddecator> right
[07:51] <drowner1979> hi everyone. Dumb question: i just modified my fstab, is it safe to run "sudo mount -a" ? I mean, will it cause my root partition to remount?
[07:53] <newboon2age_> ddecator: kermiac: okay, now it only has 22, 21 (and an rt kernel) and uses 22 by default.  So the making edit options stick in /etc/default/grub is the only one left
[07:54] <ddecator> newboon2age_: oh, you still need options for -22?
[07:54] <ddecator> kermiac is driving home from work btw :)
[07:55] <newboon2age_> ddecator: well i only need/want the splash option.  the i915.modeset thing didn't seem to be crucial for any of the cases.
[07:55] <ddecator> newboon2age_: ah, you need to have 'splash' added to the boot command?
[07:56] <newboon2age_> ddecator: yes.  That's a wish more than a need, but yes.
[07:56] <ddecator> newboon2age_: it doesn't work right without that?
[07:57] <newboon2age_> ddecator: it does work, it just doesn't show the plymouth boot screen and since i want it to look pretty much like the regular install i'd like that.  the 'quiet' part i'm not deadset on, but i'd like the splash part.
[07:58] <newboon2age_> ddecator: so far i tried double quotes and single quotes and no quotes, but nothing i've done has shown up when i go to the grub2 command options screen
[08:01] <ddecator> newboon2age_: ok, so in /etc/default/grub, look for GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="" and change it to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="splash", then save and use update-grub
[08:05] <newboon2age_> ddecator: YES!!!! okay, the problem was that i had that line spelled incorrectly.  instead of ...'CMDLINE'... in had ...'CMD'... so it just wasn't having any effect.  All better now ddecator!!!
[08:05] <ddecator> newboon2age_: finally! :D
[08:06] <newboon2age_> ddecator: finally!!!  that was since Saturday AM i think (just became Tuesday AM where i am)
[08:07] <ddecator> newboon2age_: sorry that took so long. ended up being a fairly simple solution, haha
[08:08] <newboon2age_> ddecator: whew!!!  So i think what happened was i had a repository enabled (possibly the Kubuntu experimental one) and when the dist-upgrade happened it started using the 23 kernel.
[08:09] <ddecator> most likely, yah. i test a lot of software and i still don't dare test unreleased kernel versions
[08:09] <newboon2age_> ddecator: The first symptom was that it would go straight to Grub2 recovery interface.  That was scarey!!!  W/ help from many here we got that fixed, and then it was this stall in plymouth with kernel 23.
[08:10] <newboon2age_> ddecator: yes.  I don't think i did it on purpose, i think it was sort of an accident.  Or maybe i just saw it and clicked on it w/o really thinking about it.
[08:11] <ddecator> newboon2age_: probably an accident, and that stuff happens. just glad we got it solved :)
[08:11] <newboon2age_> ddecator: okay thanks sooooo much for your and kermiac's and so many other's help.
[08:11] <ddecator> newboon2age_: no problem, any time
[08:12] <newboon2age_> ddecator: tomorrow or soon i'll update the forum message so if any others run into it they'll have some help.
[08:12] <ddecator> newboon2age_: good idea, thanks!
[08:12] <newboon2age_> ddecator: okay, i'm off then.  hate to fix and run, but this has been quite the ordeal (i know it is for y'all too).  Thanks for your help!!!!
[08:13] <ddecator> newboon2age_: no worries, have a good night!
[13:21] <Ductions> Hi, I've just partitioned a 1tb HDD. It has 2 partitions, both as EXT4. Problem is I don't seem to have read or write access to either partition? Do i need to set something in fstab for read/write permission?
[13:23] <geirha> Only you should have read/write access to them?
[13:23] <Ductions> Yeah
[13:23] <Ductions> ..but I dont
[13:23] <geirha> sudo chown "$USER:$USER" /media/mountpoint
[13:24] <geirha> That'll make you the owner, giving you write access
[13:24] <Ductions> even after a reboot for example?
[13:24] <geirha> Everyone will have read access. If you don't want that, you need to use chmod too.
[13:24] <geirha> Yes, it's permanent.
[13:24] <Ductions> cool ill give that a go, thanks
[13:24] <geirha> (well, untill you run a different chown on it ;)
[13:25] <Ductions> sorry might sound stupid, but does the USER in  "$USER:$USER" need to be changed to my username?
[13:25] <geirha> No, the shell does that for you. E.g. try: echo "$USER"
[13:25] <Ductions> cool thanks
[13:27] <Ductions> worked perfectly, thank you geirha
[13:28] <geirha> :)
[13:29] <geirha> With the default permissions, all users will have read access, just so you're aware. But only your user will have write access.
[13:37] <Ductions> That will be fine
[13:44] <shahan> Looking for a personal finance manager in LUCID
[13:53] <geirha> shahan: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ListOfOpenSourcePrograms#Financial
[13:56] <shahan> geirha: tnx...
[15:02] <spursncowboys> hi everyone. I have been messing with ubuntu and my ipod touch. My Ubuntu 10.04 would recognize my cousins' ipod touch but not mine. Mine is brand new and not synced with itunes. Is there a way anyone knows how to get it to at the least mount?
[16:49] <uhuru> i got this error  GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net lucid Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY EC9C35EAEF400C7C
[16:53] <atheiste_> hi there, just quick question. Has anyone solved problem of accessing ext4 on windows?
[16:53] <atheiste_> or is there any progress ?
[16:53] <holstein> hmmm
[16:54] <holstein> thats probably a question for #windows
[16:54] <holstein> i havnet tried in a long time
[16:55] <holstein> http://www.soluvas.com/read-browse-explore-open-ext2-ext3-ext4-partition-filesystem-from-windows-7/
[16:57] <atheiste_> Well, IMHO windows will get nothing from release driver for ext4, so there is no interest from their side.
[16:58] <holstein> you can use FAT
[16:59] <holstein> you tried http://www.ext2fsd.com/ ?
[17:00] <holstein> i guess they dont have ext4 support yet?
[17:00] <holstein> i bet they will
[17:13] <atheiste_> Well if the will be native support for ext4 more people will try linux as second system and realizes, that linux is good enough
[17:14] <holstein> that would be great
[17:14] <holstein> im afraid it goes beyond the file system
[17:15] <zkriesse> hello jMy
[17:15] <zkriesse> ah dang it
[17:15] <holstein> ive always found FAT to be a fine workaround
[17:24] <atheiste_> FAT is not the type of FS for 21. century
[17:24] <phillw1> ext4 is only a stop-gap FS
[17:29] <holstein> FAT is the type of fs that linux, OSX and windows can read/write
[17:31] <atheiste_> Because it is a standard on removable storages
[17:38] <KnitGal> hi all . . . I'm trying to get Ubuntu 10.04, 64bit working on my Laptop - Toshiba Satellite C655.  Boot into GRUB, select 1st option - ubuntu w/linux 2.6.32-21 generic. I then hit 'e', enter acpi=off.  press Ctrl-X to boot up. And I still get a list of strange strings, ending with "child_rip+0x0/0x20" and then a blinking cursor at the end.  I can't type anything in and have to hit the Power button to restart the PC.  h
[17:49] <holstein> atheiste_: im reading a post that says http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/ works for ext4
[17:55] <atheiste_> holstein: Thank you. I will give it a try :)
[17:58] <stlsaint> anyone ever use remastersys?
[18:06] <apparatus> Hey. Could anyone please help me? So I just got this Vostro 3300 laptop and am trying to install Ubuntu 9.04 on it via CD. The problem that I'm facing is that when trying to run the installer it started throwing errors at me, such as: "Buffer I/O error on device sr0, logical block 339950" etc.
[18:12] <zkriesse> KnitGal: Is your Laptop a 64-bit laptop?
[18:12] <zkriesse> apparatus: why use 9.04? Go with 9.10 or 10.04
[18:13] <apparatus> Unfortunately that's the only disk I have here at home right now but I can probably go get a new blank disc and write the latest version on it. Do you think that the problem is caused by the old version?
[18:16] <zkriesse> I'm not sure. Just a thought
[18:17] <zkriesse> once sec
[18:17] <ddecator> apparatus: ubiquity and the kernel have gone through major improvements since 9.04, so 10.04 may work better :)
[18:18] <zkriesse> ddecator: well hey howdy hey
[18:18] <ddecator> heya zkriesse
[18:59] <zkriesse> phillw1: ping
[18:59] <zkriesse> mohi2911: ping
[19:00] <Ductions> Can anyone explain this rsync error which occurs whilst it is going through my music files? rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 23) at main.c(1060) [sender=3.0.7]
[19:08] <KnitGal> yes, zkriesse . . . Toshiba Satellite C655, 64bit
[19:08] <zkriesse> KnitGal: ok
[19:08] <zkriesse> KnitGal: I'll see if i can find something
[19:29] <Z-RAY_> after amateur tries to update MLT to 0.5.6 i have left without ffmpeg modules and even ffpmeg is installed, kdenlive says that some not installed at all. also it says that some sound module is not installed. i spent all day to make "lines and dots" bug dissappear (white lines and dots - was promised to be fixed in MLT 0.5.5) and i couldn't make it, even worse - now modules "avformat module", "Quimage module", "Title module" are missing and reinstal
[19:29] <Z-RAY_> ling of the program and ffmpeg does not helping.
[19:29] <Z-RAY_> help me please to make this thing work correctly. my skype is "woanerges", or write me here. please, bro's, come on, i need some support here!
[19:29] <Z-RAY_> white dots and lines examples:
[19:29] <Z-RAY_> http://kdenlive.org/sites/default/files/shot1_0.png
[19:29] <Z-RAY_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrFXr_bx2a0
[19:34] <zkriesse> !patience > Z-RAY_
[19:34] <ubot2> Z-RAY_, please see my private message
[19:50] <collinp> Z-RAY_: Still here?
[19:51] <Z-RAY_> yes
[19:52] <collinp> I'll be with you in a few minutes, gotta finish up something I was working on.
[20:11] <Z-RAY_> collip
[20:12] <Z-RAY_> ?
[20:12] <Z-RAY_> i'm still here bro!
[20:38] <rizla_cr0w> Hello. I have some problems with ubuntu freezing during browsing the web. How do i start to troubleshoot this?
[20:40] <rizla_cr0w> hmm ok i'll try elsewhere
[21:44] <apparatus> Hey. I just installed Ubuntu 10.04 on my Vostro 3300 and also managed to install the network drivers, however for some reason I can't join my home wifi which runs on Buffalo Airstation G (all the other devices are able to connect to the network). Any help would be greately aprpreciated. Thanks!
[21:44] <apparatus> appreciated*
[21:48] <zkriesse> hmm
[21:55] <apparatus> Heh, the problem solved by itself..don't know what caused it. Just retried a couple of times.
[22:03] <KnitGal> found something for my issue yet, zkriesse?
[22:04] <zkriesse> KnitGal: I'm sorry...I've not yet looked. I've been running busy with multiple projects.
[22:04] <zkriesse> KnitGal: do you happen to use skype?
[22:04] <KnitGal> no i don't i'm deaf
[22:04] <zkriesse> ah
[22:04] <zkriesse> then you're cool
[22:05] <zkriesse> KnitGal: can you describe your issue to me once again?
[22:06] <KnitGal> here it is again:  I'm trying to get Ubuntu 10.04, 64bit working on my Laptop - Toshiba Satellite C655.  Boot into GRUB, select 1st option - ubuntu w/linux 2.6.32-21 generic. I then hit 'e', enter acpi=off.  press Ctrl-X to boot up. And I still get a list of strange strings, ending with "child_rip+0x0/0x20" and then a blinking cursor at the end.  I can't type anything in and have to hit the Power button to restart the
[22:07] <zkriesse> hmm
[22:07] <zkriesse> let me see what i can find
[22:07] <zkriesse> your laptop is 64 bit right?
[22:07] <KnitGal> right
[22:07] <zkriesse> just making sure
[22:07] <zkriesse> ok
[22:08] <KnitGal> i did see that others were having the same issue with Toshiba laptops, but i haven't found the answers yet
[22:09] <phillw1> KnitGal: it is deffinately a C655 laptop?
[22:09] <KnitGal> yep
[22:11] <zkriesse> whatcha thinkin phillw1
[22:13] <phillw1> just odd that the whole of google can not put that model together with ubuntu
[22:14] <zkriesse> hmm
[22:15] <zkriesse> i can't find anything either related to that particular model
[22:20] <phillw1> KnitGal: are you trying to dual boot with Win7 ?
[22:20] <KnitGal> yep
[22:21] <phillw1> ahh, that is something completely different !!
[22:21] <KnitGal> i can boot into Win7 just fine.  i can't boot into LInux, though
[22:21] <zkriesse> well dual booting and just running ubuntu are two totally different things
[22:22] <phillw1> 10.04 and win7 do not get on on certain systems, as Win7 decided to break all the rules
[22:22] <KnitGal> ugh.
[22:22] <zkriesse> I have a feeling that if you ran just Ubuntu it'd work just fine
[22:23] <KnitGal> yeah.  but i do need both Linux and Win since i develop websites, and i need to be able to check sites in win7
[22:23] <zkriesse> hmm
[22:23] <KnitGal> my primary setup is OS X .  i bought this laptop because it was cheap
[22:24] <phillw1> KnitGal: it is quite do-able,
[22:25] <zkriesse> Just tough
[22:26] <phillw1> nah, it is just a case of sorting out what rules Win7 has broken.
[22:26] <phillw1> KnitGal: OSX is Mac, not Win7 - how many systems are you running?
[22:28] <KnitGal> umm, yes, i know OSX is mac - i'm talking with you guys through my Mac Book Pro.  in other words, I'm not using the PC laptop - it's my 2nd laptop for when I need to use Win7 and Linux.
[22:28] <KnitGal> I know next to nothing about Win7 and same with LInux
[22:28] <zkriesse> ok then why use windows?
[22:29] <KnitGal> because i'm a web developer, and i need to be able to see what users who are running Windows are seing on my websites
[22:29] <zkriesse> ok
[22:32] <phillw1> KnitGal: have you ever considered writing your web-sites to xhtml-strict ? That's what I do
[22:33] <phillw1> the only patch I put in is a legacy one in my CSS for IE6 handling tables
[22:33] <Fanshawe> Hello everyone. Ubuntu Software Center doesn't seem to load.
[22:33] <Fanshawe> It hangs and doesn't display anything. What do you think is happening?
[22:33] <zkriesse> Fanshawe: Ubuntu Version/Pc Specs please
[22:35] <Fanshawe> I'm running 10.04 on an ASUS Eee 900. Any specific specs you're looking for?
[22:35] <phillw1> KnitGal: total validator site will give you screen shots from any browser, you can 15 / day for free - but it concentrated on accessibilty rules. the use of xhtml-strict will ensure your code is rendered correctly on all the browsers, that is why it called strict :-D
[22:36] <zkriesse> Fanshawe: no that's good enough for right now
[22:36] <zkriesse> Fanshawe: Have you submitted a bug report for this on Launchpad?
[22:37] <Fanshawe> Nope. Should I do that?
[22:38] <zkriesse> yes
[22:38] <phillw1> Fanshawe: you may want to consider a lighter weight ubuntu, lubuntu seems happy on the Eee 900 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1482952
[22:38] <zkriesse> https://launchpad.net/
[22:38] <zkriesse> or even unr
[22:41] <Fanshawe> phillwl: I'll consider that. Is there a way to port over my preferences or would it be an entirely fresh install?
[22:42] <phillw1> Fanshawe: you can hive off your /home (that is always something I recomend) that way you can try different ones, and keep all your own stuff.
[22:42] <Judi> Start-up trouble, requesting help. Error 1: could not update ICEauthority file /home/me/.ICEauthority  Error 2: problem with config server /usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconf-sanity-check-2 Exited w status 256  Error 3: Nautilus could not create the following req'd folders: /home/me/Desktop, /home/me/.nautilus
[22:44] <Judi> suggestions please?
[22:44] <phillw1> Judi: did you enable home folder encryption when you did the installation?
[22:44] <Judi> ooh, I might have, not sure
[22:45] <Judi> it's a fresh install, one serious update
[22:45] <Judi> new to Ubuntu
[22:47] <phillw1> Judi: well, let's start at the 1st error and work our way through ... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1081730  is for the first error, that may shake the others out as we go along.
[22:47] <Judi> actually, not during the install. I've poked around on the system for a couple of hours, but may have enabled encryption in recent session.
[22:48] <Judi> thanks phillw1, give me a min to check that
[22:49] <Judi> right, with these three errors I don't have any kind of prompt and don't know how to get to a terminal
[22:49] <Judi> it's just a nice pink-ish space...
[22:51] <Fanshawe> Alright, I'm going to try reinstalling Software Centre via the Synaptic Package Manager. Good idea?
[22:55] <phillw1> Judi: try http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9092596&postcount=9
[22:57] <Judi> thx, will do
[22:59] <phillw1> Fanshawe: sure, mark it for re-installation.
[23:02] <KnitGal> thanks for the advice, but, well, as you said, that website is not entirely free. and i do want to see what's so great about Linux.
[23:03] <KnitGal> it's still best to be able to see exactly what website users are seeing when i'm trying to debug their issues.
[23:23] <phillw1> KnitGal: then just use firefox for win?
[23:24] <phillw1> it is the same version as for linux. I do all my website stuff under ubuntu. I have others have a check over now and again, but have never had issues
[23:25] <phillw1> KnitGal: coding to accepted standards is far easier :-) http://mgjuddltd.co.uk   Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature :-)
[23:27]  * phillw1 goes and adds Cynthia Says! Level 3 icon back on to the site
[23:28] <Ou42> hello - i'm trying to get a serial wacom penpartner to work w/ ubuntu 10.04 -- near impossible for a noob, but i'd just like to see why xinput doesn't see it.  i'm using a belkin usb to serial converter.
[23:29] <Ou42> oh and some post mentioned xxd /dev/ttyUSB0 and use the pad and see output to the terminal window, but i get nothing.  it's not finding anything but the usb to serial adapter.  is there speed setting or something to see if it's even trying to install?


[07:15] <mup> PR core20#154 closed: static/usr/lib: add rule to override rtc symlink according to kernel param ubuntu_core.rtc_sys_init_time <Created by ernestl> <Closed by ernestl> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/154>
[09:03] <mup> PR snapd#12997 closed: seed: fix ValidateError output <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12997>
[09:03] <mup> PR snapd#12998 closed: osutil: fix broken {old,new}Dir.Sync() in AtomicRename() <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12998>
[09:38] <mup> PR snapd#12999 closed: snap: fix incorrect undo debug timings <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12999>
[09:53] <mup> PR snapd#12995 closed: docs: Update documentation for snapcraft  remote-build to use --build-for instead of deprecated --build-on <Skip spread> <Created by robert-ancell> <Merged by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12995>
[11:19] <mup> PR snapd#13016 opened: tests: remove kinetic <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/13016>
[12:29] <mup> PR snapd#13017 opened: daemon: save startup timings <Needs Documentation -auto-> <Created by valentindavid> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/13017>
[12:49] <mup> PR snapd#13009 closed: disks: fix copy/paste error in mockdisks.go <Simple 😃> <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/13009>
[20:01] <mup> PR snapd#12910 closed: snap: support install/refresh that result in "Wait" changes in the cli better <Needs Samuele review> <Run nested> <Run Nested -auto-> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12910>


 Oh yea. I haven't used workstation on windows. Does it have unity host? I've only used workstation in Linux hosts
 What is workstation?
 Vmware workstation is the equivalent of virtualbox for desktop use
 There's a free version called vmware player
 on windows, it has unity, not on linux
 unless i'm missing it
 Oh. VMware. I always use VirtualBox
 I think you right. Cause I've looked for it.
 You can get Unity in VirtualBox.  But I think Canonical nixed the old interface in favor of Gnome.
 I used to use virtualbox exclusively. But now it's kind of a given I'd use vmware products
 unity = seemless mode
 not unity desktop
 LightDM with the new UI.
 Yea. Unity is where the virtualize software will integrate the guest os apps into your main os seemlessly
 Oh.
 Ok.
 So you can't tell you are in a vm. Instead of doing a max window of your guest os. It's pretty neat
 Seemless Mode in VBox.
 I'm not sure if even virtualbox has that feature in Linux hosts
 Oh it does?
 it does
 yeah, though the windows 10 guest doesn't work that well with it
 i'm using a windows 7 guest
 Workstation is still a supported product. So there a public page for feature requests. I'll put a request for unity feature.
 okay, because i heard the nixed it after version 7
 I'm running 14
 Um. If you're on Windows 10, you can run most things within WSL. You can get an X server for Windows like xming. Then within Ubuntu, within WSL, edit /etc/profile to include a line DISPLAY=:0.  That should allow you to operate seamless.
 It's not a VM but it works.
 Nice
 yeah, but i'm talking about a windows 10 guest
 You can also Remote X Display to Windows 10.
 Oh.
 I don't think you can seamless on Windows 10 guest at all.  Can you?
 yeah, using the windows 10 seamless mode in vbox is kinda buggy, open up the start menu and it disappears
 my team lead uses a windows 10 vm on his mac and it works decently
 well, unity mode because he uses vmware
 Hm. Well, personally I'm of the oppinion that Windows is good at graphics and GUI stuff.  Linux is good at server stuff.  I tend to use Windows host and Linux guest.  Everything works.
 Linux is also best at working with files, devices, and textual manipulation.  I need both.
 yeah, but i like my linux running on bare metal
 I wouldn't even know how to open a serial port and send exact bytes to a mobile device through Windows.  You can do it from the command line in Linux.
 *without designing a program
 The cars a Hyundai
 What @chuckr?
 The picture I side the car.
 Hate phone keyboard


[12:57] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[16:31] <ball> hello starcraftman
[16:31] <starcraftman> ball: hello
[16:31]  * starcraftman waves
[20:00] <dscassel> Hi from FOSSLC's SC2011! :D
[20:01] <dscassel> (in Ottawa)
[20:01] <dscassel> http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/sc2011
[20:03] <ball> I thought SC11 was in Seattle?
[20:56] <dscassel> ball: I'm sure there are lots.
[20:56] <dscassel> 'SC' in this case apparently stands for 'summer camp'
[20:57] <ball> Ah right, I thought you meant the SuperComputing conference
[23:04] <ball> ...or it could be Summer Camp.


[04:17] <jadarite> I have tried to use a USB to install ubuntu and edubuntu, but when it boots up, it just lists "Syslinux 3.86.......Peter Anvin et al"  and stalls.  I used the universal USB program as instructed.  Can someone help me try to find the solution to getting this installed?  I have been working on this for 2 days.
[04:36] <jadarite> Can you use "UNetbootin" for edubuntu?  I don't see it listed, so it doesn't look like it
[06:02] <jadarite> Found the problem.  I have been using an out of date version of the Universal USB Installer program.  Universal-USB-Installer-<IP_ADDRESS>.exe works
[06:02] <jadarite> .3 doesn't
[09:53] <clinton> Hi, can anybody tell me if there is anybody in the durban or PMB area, who has a copy of the EDUBunut DVD.  Ive been trying to download it for 4 days now and it keeps on dropping after I have downloaded about 700mbs
[19:25] <highvoltage> ● Edubuntu Meeting in about 30 minutes
[19:28] <alkisg> ● ⓞⓚ
[19:29] <highvoltage> pity there's no real Edubuntu logo in unicode :)
[19:30] <highvoltage> ◉ Canonical
[19:30] <highvoltage> that one is easier :)
[19:34] <alkisg> I've seen ubuntu written with some pretty unicode characters, maybe mathematical symbols, but I can't find it...
[20:35] <mhall119> o/
[20:35] <mhall119> oh wait, in 30 minutes...
[20:39]  * mhall119 is busy subscribing to the edubuntu uds-n blueprints
[20:39] <mhall119> heh, in 30 minutes over an hour ago, i fail
[20:48]  * mhall119 reads the meeting long instead
[21:11] <highvoltage> heh
[21:17] <epaphus> hello all. Does edubuntu still ship with LTSP preconfigured and ready to be used?  10.04 ?
[21:22] <mhall119> doesn't really matter, because you didn't stick around for an answer
[21:45] <epaphus> back
[21:46] <mhall119> epaphus: I'm pretty sure it still ships with LTSP
[22:05] <highvoltage> epaphus: yep, it still ships with ltsp. not automatically configured though, you still have to make at least one extra click during the installation process...
[22:06] <highvoltage> epaphus: http://edubuntu.org/documentation/10.10/installation-guide has more details
[22:07] <epaphus> thanks