[07:14] <pitti> Good morning
[07:18] <didrocks> hey pitti
[07:18] <pitti> bonjour didrocks! comment vas-tu?
[07:19] <didrocks> pitti: Gut, Danke schön. Wie geht's? :)
[07:29] <pitti> didrocks: tres bien, merci!
[07:30] <pitti> so, new GNOME today then?
[07:30] <pitti> didrocks: do you know, did seb128 ever get to auto-updating versions.html again?
[07:34] <didrocks> pitti: no, I guess it's still need some love
[07:34] <didrocks> it*
[07:34] <didrocks> and yeah, ready for new GNOME \o/
[07:35] <didrocks> pitti: vte has some ABI and API breakage, do we keep the old one or rebuild all reverse dep?
[07:35] <pitti> ugh, some 30 rdepends
[07:35] <pitti> is it part of the GNOME release?
[07:38] <didrocks> pitti: I don't really know if it's an official module or not
[07:38] <didrocks> let me have a look if I can find it
[07:39] <pitti> it doesn't have a GNOMEish version number
[07:39] <didrocks> yeah, but I am not sure that all official modules should have one
[07:41] <didrocks> pitti: it's on http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/Desktop
[07:42] <didrocks> in "Current Modules"
[07:42] <pitti> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/vte/0.21/vte-0.21.7.tar.gz
[07:42] <pitti> indeed
[07:44] <Amaranth> hmm, does bdmurray have a new nick or has he just been gone a while?
[07:44] <didrocks> well, coffee time. We will discuss that with seb, right? (30 rdepends... :/)
[07:45] <Amaranth> sounds like a good way to waste a day :/
[08:00] <Amaranth> hey mvo
[08:06] <didrocks> pitti: can you launch another versions.py in another host (karmic one, if possible)? (I can setup it on my personal server if needed)
[08:06] <mvo> hey Amaranth
[08:06] <mvo> Amaranth: how is compiz looking today?
[08:06] <didrocks> hey mvo and Amaranth :)
[08:07] <Amaranth> mvo: waiting on maniac's approval to get constrain_y implemented in wobbly and resize
[08:07] <Amaranth> otherwise libcompizconfig git has a fix for the crash when you start with LANG=
[08:07] <Amaranth> didrocks: howdy
[08:08] <Amaranth> mvo: still can't figure out bug 430981 though
[08:08] <mvo> Amaranth: cool, thanks for the work on contrain_y !
[08:08] <Amaranth> mvo: actually cornelius did it :P
[08:09] <Amaranth> all I did this weekend if add a failsafe gnome session to gdm
[08:09] <mvo> Amaranth: oh, well :) still thanks :)
[08:53] <seb128> hey there
[08:53] <asac> *sigh*
[08:53] <didrocks> hey seb128, ton week-end s'est bien passé?
[08:53] <seb128> bah some of the french translators seem angry enough with the software store naming to be wanting to change distro now
[08:53] <asac> MAJOR constructions at my house!!
[08:53] <asac> hi!
[08:54] <seb128> didrocks, lut, oui, toi?
[08:54] <seb128> asac, hey, how, what sort?
[08:54] <didrocks> seb128: très bien, merci :)
[08:54] <didrocks> hey asac
[08:54] <didrocks> seb128: Bruno Patri fait parti du lot?
[08:54] <seb128> didrocks, oui
[08:54] <didrocks> ok
[08:55] <seb128> they say that the name is impossible to translate without having a title suggesting it's a commercial application
[08:55] <seb128> and that canonical just to enforce it to sell software over the community rather than promoting free softwares
[08:55] <asac> seb128: the sort of construciton where you want t ohide
[08:55] <asac> major hammering all the time ;)
[08:56] <seb128> asac, run ;-)
[08:56] <seb128> asac, where do you work from?
[08:56] <asac> home ;)
[08:56] <didrocks> asac: push your Hi-Fi on fire :)
[08:56] <asac> didrocks: thats not enough
[08:56] <asac> i have to find some other place
[08:56] <asac> not sure where
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:08] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> did you have a good weekend?
[09:09] <seb128> excellent
[09:09] <seb128> you?
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad. just did a bit of ubuntu stuff, and relaxed quite a lot as well
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> catching up on sleep!
[09:12] <seb128> catching up on sleep is always good ;-)
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> it is, and i need to do lots of that now!
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> because there will be no opportunities for sleep in a few weeks;)
[09:14] <Amaranth> yay, I got all the firefox-lp-improvement scripts working on chrome
[09:14] <Amaranth> the stock replies one is an evil hack though
[09:14] <Amaranth> since I don't have cross-site XMLHttpRequest
[09:15] <Amaranth> I suppose it'd work with epiphany now though
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> we need a greasemonkey script to turn off the redirect for bug reporting now ;)
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> that's so annoying
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it breaks http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html too
[09:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the links you mean?
[09:16] <Amaranth> doable very easily I think
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it just takes you to the wiki now
[09:16] <seb128> btw it's http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/versions.html now
[09:16] <seb128> pitti just moved it to its server when it's working
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> thanks, yeah, i just noticed the link wasn't working
[09:17] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> good morning pitti
[09:19] <seb128> hey njpatel
[09:20] <njpatel> hey seb128
[09:22] <seb128> pitti, can you bzr pull versions?
[09:23] <seb128> I added a no-redirect to urls to open workflow bugs
[09:23] <pitti> done
[09:23] <pitti> I have quite a large bzr diff now, I'll reduce that first
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, danke
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: can you please commit http://paste.ubuntu.com/275117/ ?
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: oops, please drop the "print"
[09:24] <pitti> but it needs lazr.restfulclient now
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, it's in ubuntu-desktop you should be able to push
[09:24] <pitti> (bzr get lp:lazr.restfulclient)
[09:24] <pitti> ah
[09:26] <pitti> seb128, didrocks: mind if I drop the automatic calling of setup-launchpadlib?
[09:26] <seb128> any reason?
[09:26] <pitti> it's unexpected magic unsuitable for cron, and it hides other import errors like the old httplib or missing pkg-resources
[09:27] <seb128> I'm fine with dropping it
[09:27] <seb128> it's easy enough to run by hand
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i did the g-s-t update last night, but i went with dropping services-admin altogether rather than splitting it in to a new pacakge
[09:27] <pitti> \o/
[09:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> no problem!
[09:27] <pitti> one thing less to shoot yourself in the foot
[09:27] <seb128> did you drop services-admin too?
[09:27] <seb128> ups
[09:28] <seb128> I read users-admin for some reason
[09:28] <seb128> good move ;-)
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> dholbach spotted a mistake though - my update drops a dependency on system-tools-backends because the branch was not up-to-date before i started it;)
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i thought we should drop services-admin now, as it's pretty useless with upstart
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> i always thought it was useless anyway, but it's more useless now ;)
[09:29] <seb128> not only useless but it can break your system and it's not new
[09:29] <seb128> ie we got quite some bugs about people turning down gdm or dbus there
[09:30] <pitti> seb128, didrocks: ok, I committed my stuff to versions bzr
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it will be good to get rid of it then
[09:30] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[09:30] <pitti> my work dir on my server is clean now
[09:32] <seb128> Laney, hey, should the new f-spot go the karmic?
[09:33] <didrocks> pitti: great ;)
[09:35] <Amaranth> seb128: did you see bug 432945?
[09:35] <seb128> no
[09:36] <seb128> it's monday morning and I've a backlog of 360 bug emails from the weekend still to go
[09:36] <Amaranth> hehe
[09:36] <seb128> will have a look later
[09:36] <Amaranth> alright, branches are ready to go though :)
[09:37] <seb128> I've to look at making sure those entries are translatable too
[09:37] <seb128> I've the feeling they are not right now
[09:37] <Amaranth> seb128: they are, the .desktop files have _Name and gdm grabs the localestring
[09:37] <seb128> ok good
[09:37] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - i saw your gnome-session patch
[09:38] <Amaranth> upstream doesn't know what they want to do to get failsafe
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> i assume compiz looks at that environment variable?
[09:38] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: yeah
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> because compiz will still start in failsafe
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - cool
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> i wasn't sure:)
[09:39] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: but the failsafe session also disables metacity compositing, nm-applet, gnome-power-manager, bluetooth-applet, user login items, etc
[09:39] <Amaranth> If failsafe doesn't login for you your X is broken :P
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - how does the failsafe disable metacity compositing (ie, how does it know that the session is failsafe)?
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> is it using the same method?
[09:40] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: If you only apply the gnome-session half of the patch gnome-session still starts normally, it ignores the -f option
[09:40] <Amaranth> I believe so, let me check
[09:40] <Amaranth> hmm, nope
[09:40] <Amaranth> maybe gnome-session does something
[09:41] <Amaranth> I'm pretty sure it disables metacity compositing, anyway :P
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - i've got a funny feeling that gnome-session passes an extra argument to it
[09:41] <Amaranth> possibly
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> (or at least that's what i thought)
[09:41] <Amaranth> except compiz starts metacity in this case
[09:41] <Amaranth> /usr/bin/compiz, that is
[09:42] <Amaranth> Maybe metacity compositing was just broken, I dunno
[09:42] <Amaranth> It didn't turn on until I restarted metacity
[09:48] <Amaranth> is anyone still seeing https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/430981 ?
[09:48] <Amaranth> for me and one other person the bug has gone away
[09:50] <seb128> I didn't try
[09:50] <seb128> new edge layout is not so nice
[09:50] <seb128> the sidebar takes almost as much space and the comments
[09:51] <Amaranth> not here
[09:52] <asac> seb128: how is ephy greasemonkey supposed to work?
[09:52] <asac> just click on the .js and it installs it?
[09:52] <seb128> right click on it and pick install in the menu
[09:53] <asac> ah
[09:53] <seb128> ie go on http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/, right click on bugtriage.user.js  and select the first entry
[09:53] <asac> ok thtas still broken ... adblock works
[09:53] <asac> let me check
[09:53] <asac> i get a GTk warning about GTK_BIN cast failing
[09:54] <seb128> is there a way to increase launchpad font size in firefox?
[09:54] <asac> web_view = WEBKIT_WEB_VIEW (gtk_bin_get_child (GTK_BIN (gtk_bin_get_child (GTK_BIN (embed)))));
[09:54] <asac> seb128: ctrl + ;)
[09:54] <asac> it should remember it somehow
[09:54] <mac_v> ah asac bet me to it ;p
[09:54] <mac_v> beat*
[09:54] <seb128> it doesn't in a consistent way apparently
[09:54] <seb128> ie it's by page not cross launchpad
[09:54] <seb128> no?
[09:56] <Amaranth> http://people.ubuntu.com/~amaranth/greasemonkey/
[09:56] <Amaranth> those should all work in epiphany, they work in chrome
[09:56] <Amaranth> the stock replies one is a bit hacky and for some reason adds all the replies twice though
[09:56] <Amaranth> but it works :)
[09:56] <Amaranth> the karma one actually works better than the original even in firefox, the karma pages changed on edge
[09:57] <asac> ok found the fix for greasemonkey
[09:57] <asac> good
[09:59] <Amaranth> it seems only firefox and IE8 support the new standard for cross-domain xmlhttprequest so I had to work around that in the stock replies script
[10:09] <asac> Amaranth: thats odd. firefox 3.5 or 3.0?
[10:09] <Amaranth> asac: firefox 3
[10:10] <Amaranth> asac: GM_xmlhttprequest works around it because extensions don't have such a limitation
[10:10] <Amaranth> but of course other browsers don't have GM_xmlhttprequest and they also don't implement cross-domain XHR so... stuck
[10:10] <asac> but ephy uses same webkit
[10:11] <asac> err gecko ;)
[10:12] <asac> do other browsers have greasemonkey at all?
[10:12]  * asac notices that you mentioned IE
[10:13] <asac> packages with control.in are a mess ;) ... they should at least warn if the control timestamp is newer than the control.in before overwriting it
[10:14] <hyperair> they should have a control rule in debian/rules imo
[10:19] <seb128> pitti, any idea where to reassign bug #433363?
[10:19] <seb128> the mounting fails on "can't read superblock"
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: oh, btw, CDs work again
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: will look
[10:20] <seb128> pitti, oh nice, where was the bug?
[10:20] <pitti> udev regression in blkid invocation
[10:20] <Laney> seb128: yeah
[10:20] <seb128> Laney, ok thanks
[10:20] <seb128> pitti, danke
[10:20] <Laney> I think the flickrnet transition is complete
[10:20] <Laney> so we should do that too imo
[10:21] <seb128> that?
[10:21] <Laney> you undid it for the previous f-spot release iirc
[10:21] <seb128> Laney, we are synced with debian at the moment
[10:21] <Laney> oh alright
[10:21] <Laney> straight sync then
[10:24] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - you done any investigating on this gnome-keyring issue?
[10:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, no I didn't but I guess it's due to the previous changes to fix crash at shutdown
[10:25] <seb128> they might try to clean things now rather than just closing
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not sure yet. i noticed last night when i shut down that i got an error dialog from gnome-keyring-daemon pop up briefly before the desktop went away
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> but i didn't catch the text in it
[10:26] <seb128> never noticed that
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> but that might be a clue if i can get it to appear again
[10:26] <pitti> chrisccoulson: FYI, DK-disks 007 and new gdu are in karmic; I thought you needed that for something
[10:26] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. yeah, that fixes the annoying smart notifications
[10:28] <Amaranth> buying a new disk fixes them too ;)
[10:28] <davmor2> pitti: there is a ubuntu-bug scheme for audio isn't there?
[10:28] <pitti> not yet
[10:28] <pitti> seb128 wrote the beginnings of it in the totem hook
[10:28] <davmor2> ah okay :)
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - my disk is fine though ;)
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> it just has a few re-allocated sectors
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> no big deal:)
[10:29] <Laney> how do I use symptom bug reporting?
[10:31] <Laney> oh I thought there was one for audio
[10:33] <seb128> Laney, totem has one which run aplay, paplay, gst-launch to play audio
[10:33] <seb128> and which checks that some volume is set
[10:34] <mpt> mvo, for 2.0, would it be reasonable to calculate the dependencies for any package whenever you went to the individual screen for that package? How fast would that be?
[10:34] <Laney> Someone in another channel is seeing no sound device in their volume control
[10:34] <Laney> thought that it would be a good case for symptom reporting
[10:35]  * Laney has no idea which package. alsa-base?
[10:36] <seb128> Laney, there is no audio hook right now out of totem I think
[10:36] <seb128> Laney, it's probably a linux or alsa-base bug issue
[10:36] <Laney> alright
[10:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i think i solved the pygda depending on python2.5 issue that i mentioned briefly on friday
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> (well, seb128 hinted at the issue and I think I've got a way to work around it)
[10:47] <mvo> mpt: calulating them in what way? as if it would get installed?
[10:47] <mpt> mvo, calculating the amount of extra disk space required
[10:57] <mpt_> mvo, sorry, I missed your answer if there was one
[10:58] <mvo> mpt_: that is possible and should not cause too much grief, but it will require some magic to ensure that its always consistent depending with the running transcations and the ones that got canceled in between etc
[10:58] <mvo> mpt_: more after lunch
[11:01] <asac> seb128: extensions-more doesnt work yet. seems not to harm either except that it depends on << 2.26+ at
[11:01] <asac> the moment
[11:01] <asac> so would hold upgrades back if installed
[11:01] <seb128> dunno what this thing is
[11:01] <seb128> I never used or touched it, I think that's a debian thing
[11:01] <asac> ok to loossen the depends ... which would practically disable them for users
[11:01] <asac> seb128: those are python extensions ... which doesnt work yet with new extensions from what i can see
[11:01] <asac> e.g. no python extension support avail atm
[11:01] <seb128> ok
[11:01] <mpt_> thanks mvo, I just needed that info for a bug report discussion :-)
[11:02] <seb128> I don't think it's important to have in karmic
[11:02] <mac_v> mpt_: added a mockup for the "departments need mouse-over" bug :)
[11:05] <kwwii> TheMuso: good evening...did you get a chance to look into adding the funcationality of setting a theme in gdm?
[11:07] <seb128> changing the gdm theme should only be setting the background gconf key
[11:10] <kwwii> seb128: we want to set a gtk and metacity theme as well
[11:10] <seb128> same reply
[11:11] <kwwii> seb128: right, but afaik that doesn't work yet
[11:11] <seb128> why not?
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> it does - i'm using a custom theme at home
[11:11] <seb128> you maybe didn't try to change for the right user
[11:12] <kwwii> seb128: I have no idea....I have asked everyone to understand which gconf key to set to make it work
[11:12] <seb128> not sure if the code reading those keys run as gdm user
[11:12] <kwwii> seb128: I couldn't find any info at all...I did search through gconf for the key
[11:12] <seb128> it's a normal gnome-session
[11:13] <seb128> it's customisable the same way as a desktop
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> off the top of my head, the GTK and icon theme keys are under /desktop/gnome/interface
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> the metacity theme is under /apps/metacity
[11:13] <kwwii> seb128: well, I have been busy working on a new gtk and metacity theme, now I wanted to test it and couldn't figure out how
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> and the cursor theme is under /desktop/gnome/peripherals/mouse
[11:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, for what user did you set it?
[11:14] <kwwii> chrisccoulson: do you know if it was done for another user or such?
[11:14] <seb128> you can change the system default to test
[11:14] <seb128> that will change the default desktop one too though
[11:14] <seb128> ie edit /usr/share/gconf/defaults/16_ubuntu-artwork
[11:15] <seb128> and run sudo update-gconf-defaults to update the values
[11:15] <kwwii> seb128: for testing that would be enough, thanks...but I still need to figure out how to set it just for gdm
[11:15] <seb128> the same way
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> something like that
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - gdm user
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> i changed the keys with "sudo -u gdm gconftool-2 ...."
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - is it possible to set user specific gconf defaults on install?
[11:15] <seb128> either it's the gconf keys for the gdm user or for sudo
[11:16] <seb128> chrisccoulson, not that I know about in an automatic way but we can hack the postinst for that
[11:16] <kwwii> in my art packages I have never set a gconf key for a specific user
[11:16] <kwwii> I guess this is why I haven't been able to figure it out :)
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's what i was thinking
[11:17] <seb128> we never had to set gconf keys for users
[11:17] <seb128> usually system services don't use gconf
[11:17] <seb128> do we want a different background in gdm and on the desktop now?
[11:17] <seb128> it would be smoother to have the same image from boot to desktop no?
[11:17] <Amaranth> there were some times things would have been easier if we could change users gconf keys :)
[11:18] <Amaranth> instead of hacking /usr/bin/compiz to check keys and modify them
[11:19] <kwwii> seb128: yes, we want the same bg as used in the xsplash
[11:19] <asac> seb128: can you check this please: http://pastebin.com/f62af3cc5
[11:20] <kwwii> Amaranth: no doubt
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - talking of /usr/bin/compiz changing user gconf keys - it still makes calls to /usr/bin/gconftool doesn't it?
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> but gconftool doesn't exist
[11:21] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: but seb128 says it should :)
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> i thought it didnt exist on my system when i checked the other day :-/
[11:21] <chrisccoulson> perhaps it did ;)
[11:21] <seb128> gconftool does exist
[11:21] <seb128> it's an alternative
[11:21] <seb128>  /usr/bin/gconftool -> /etc/alternatives/gconftool
[11:22] <pitti> nope
[11:22] <pitti> current version doesn't install it
[11:22] <pitti> it only installs it for versions << 2.19.1-2
[11:22] <seb128> it should install it for new installs and upgrades from this version
[11:23] <pitti> then the lt-nl should be "lt"
[11:23] <seb128>   [ Loic Minier ]
[11:23] <seb128>   * Change the postinst to explicitely install the alternative on install and
[11:23] <seb128>     upgrades from << 2.19.1-2.
[11:23] <pitti> the 'if [ "$1" = install ]; then' was perhaps meant to do that
[11:23] <pitti> but it's bogus
[11:23] <pitti> $1 never is set to "install"
[11:23] <seb128> ok, feel free to fix it if you know what is wrong ;-)
[11:24]  * Amaranth stabs devhelp
[11:24] <pitti> hm, is the source gconf or gconf2?
[11:24] <pitti> seb128: will do
[11:24] <seb128> asac, why do you add a "Replaces: epiphany-browser"
[11:24] <seb128> pitti, gconf
[11:24] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[11:24] <Amaranth> Got a crash I thought may have been caused by the webkit upgrade so I ran it under valgrind all weekend while actively using it for a personal project and it didn't crash once under valgrind
[11:25] <Amaranth> so it's a race condition of some sort
[11:25] <seb128> you ran something under valgrind for a weekend? brave you
[11:26] <Amaranth> some guy used to run X under valgrind all the time
[11:26] <Amaranth> I think he may have gone insane
[11:26] <pitti> seb128: ok, building and testing
[11:27] <asac> seb128: default templatish. guess can be removed
[11:28] <Amaranth> no supported system should ever upgrade from 2.19.x to current anyway so if the fix makes the symlink always install that's fine too ;)
[11:28] <seb128> asac, otherwise that looks good to me, I'm just not sure about the conflicts on -data
[11:28] <Amaranth> actually it wouldn't matter if they did
[11:28] <asac> seb128: ok also made the transistional package arch all
[11:29] <asac> seb128: i think the conflicts dont hurt.
[11:29] <asac> seb128: we dont have a transitional package for that ... so i thought a conflict might help remove that old one
[11:29] <seb128> asac, it does if somebody wants gecko back and do a ppa version or something
[11:29] <seb128> autoremove should clean that one anyway
[11:29] <asac> well. then they have to artificially bump the upstream version anyway
[11:29] <seb128> or update-manager after dist-upgrade
[11:29] <seb128> ok
[11:30] <seb128> looks good to me with the arch change and without the Replaces then
[11:30] <Amaranth> oh man, I hope no one with the keybindings problem has disabled compiz via appearance preferences to work around it
[11:30] <Amaranth> I did so while testing something else and that's apparently when the bug went away for me
[11:30] <seb128> Amaranth, some people do ask on bugs to try that
[11:30] <Amaranth> unless it's just fixed for everyone
[11:30] <seb128> I doubt it
[11:31] <seb128> we got several duplicates during the weekend
[11:31] <Amaranth> 3 people now that had the bug don't have it anymore
[11:33] <seb128> some people have been suggesting to try without the desktop effects on bugs
[11:33] <seb128> so if that makes any difference ...
[11:34] <Amaranth> dunno that it does for sure
[11:34] <Amaranth> I'm hoping one of you guys still has the bug and has time for me to feed you packages sprinkled with printf
[11:35] <Amaranth> also, does anyone know if there is any update on the farsight release needed for msn video in empathy?
[11:35] <seb128> no idea about empathy, too many things going on and we are far past feature freeze
[11:37] <Laney> Amaranth: Sorry, it went away for me
[11:37] <Amaranth> Laney: Did you at any point switch to metacity?
[11:37] <Laney> yeah :(
[11:37] <Laney> switched back though
[11:38] <Laney> does that trash some settings?
[11:38] <Laney> I can try with a new user later if you think that would help
[11:38] <Amaranth> It shouldn't change anything except the gnome-session windowmanager key
[11:39] <Amaranth> And of course it could have an effect on the gconf keys metacity and compiz share but people were having problems with keybindings for compiz plugins so that doesn't seem likely
[11:39] <pitti> lool: I fixed the alternatives handling in gconf, FYI (you might want to do the same in Debian, I think you introduced the original error)
[11:39] <Laney> oh my problems weren't for compiz specific shortcuts
[11:39] <Laney> rather stuff I set from g-k-p
[11:40] <Amaranth> People were reporting both problems
[11:40] <Amaranth> I think it's time for me to dig out my old beast of a laptop and install jaunty
[11:40] <pitti> is there any chance that this was related to the gconftool error messages at compiz startup?
[11:40] <Amaranth> upgrade testing sucks :/
[11:41] <Amaranth> pitti: Not unless those errors could trash the settings but they just check for gnomecompat plugin and if not found try to add it
[11:41] <Amaranth> but with both the call to check the plugin list and the call to update it using gconftool they would both fail
[11:42] <Amaranth> gnomecompat is just commands for screenshot tool and keybindings for those commands and alt-f2
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - want me to take the g-s-d update?
[11:45] <Amaranth> ha, I just pulled up a stacktrace and maniac fixed it before I could even mention it
[11:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes please
[11:52] <Amaranth> hmm, I wish I could do a search for bugs with dupes
[11:53] <seb128> Amaranth, what do you mean?
[11:53] <seb128> Amaranth, you can sort by number of duplicates
[11:53] <Amaranth> Can you?
[11:54] <Amaranth> ah, so you can
[11:58] <didrocks> seb128: I talked to it a little later with pitti, but we didn't decide: vte has an API/ABI breakage. How do we want to deal with it?
[12:01] <tjaalton> I've got a problem with FUSA in jaunty not respecting either AllowLogoutActions from gdm.conf, or the polkit settings (org.fd.hal.power-management.*). what should I do to disable reboot/shutdown from the menu?
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> tjaalton - those polkit actions are wrong ;)
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> you want to change org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.*
[12:03] <tjaalton> oh nice
[12:04] <tjaalton> let me try those
[12:09] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: yeah, works.. thanks! the menu still lists them though, but I can live with that
[12:09] <seb128> didrocks, they broke the abi and api after freezes? weird
[12:09] <seb128> didrocks, did they change the soname?
[12:10] <pitti_> hey sabdfl
[12:11] <sabdfl> hello there pitti_ and desktop lovers
[12:11]  * Amaranth waves
[12:12] <davmor2> sabdfl: Hello
[12:12] <Amaranth> sabdfl: So I can make the IRC Team happy, what is the name of the next ubuntu release? :)
[12:12] <sabdfl> Lucid Lynx
[12:13] <Amaranth> thanks
[12:18] <seb128> hey sabdfl
[12:19] <chrisccoulson> would anyone be interested in a replacement for services-admin for stopping/starting/restarting upstart jobs? (or is anyone working on one)
[12:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't think anybody is working on it
[12:23] <seb128> not sure how useful that would be
[12:23] <seb128> my gut feeling is that we have higher needs
[12:23] <chrisccoulson> yeah, probably. i'm not sure how many people used the old tool
[12:30] <huats> hello everyone !
[12:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, seeing that it only destroys your config I would say almost none
[12:32] <seb128> lut huats
[12:33] <seb128> asac, gnome-bluetooth 2.28 is out, do you want to do the update or should I do it?
[12:34] <Amaranth> arg, gtk-window-decorator is crashing inside libwnck in a way that should not be possible
[12:40] <sabdfl> hi seb, am enjoying the flood of updates after vacation, thank you :-)
[12:41] <seb128> sabdfl, you're welcome, another flood coming today with GNOME 2.28 btw
[12:41] <seb128> ;-)
[12:42] <sabdfl> i saw :-)
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - want me to work on making suspend/hibernate work from GDM? it doesn't seem like anyone upstream is working on that
[12:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that would be nice thanks!
[12:53] <chrisccoulson> i'll sort that then
[12:54] <seb128> excellent ;-)
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've also got a patch for bug 408481 - i'm not sure if you want me to apply it now or wait for upstream to review it
[12:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, apply while doing the 2.28 update I would say
[12:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, will do
[12:57] <seb128> the change is easy enough to not be an issue
[12:58] <c_korn> jcastro: hello. are you around ? I read you mentioned that karmic boots up in 4sec for you using a SSD. would you mind giving more detailed specs about your system ?
[13:07] <\sh> guys, I have one simple question, where do someone change in karmic the GDM login screen? The old way of System -> Administration -> Login Screen, doesn't give anymore the theme for the login screen...
[13:08] <\sh> s/where do/where does/
[13:12] <asac> seb128: let me do that
[13:12] <asac> one second
[13:12] <seb128> asac, http://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-bluetooth/2.28/gnome-bluetooth-2.28.0.tar.gz
[13:18] <asac> uploaded
[13:21] <seb128> asac, that was quick, thanks ;-)
[13:22] <asac> np
[13:27] <kenvandine> seb128, can you sponsor bug 340180?
[13:27] <kenvandine> adding the indicator to empathy
[13:28] <seb128> kenvandine, will have a look when I'm done with zillion GNOME 2.28 tarball the ten zillion emails from the weekend and the other zillion people who pinged me since this morning ;-)
[13:28] <kenvandine> :)
[13:28] <seb128> ie maybe not today
[13:28] <seb128> or ask pitti
[13:28] <seb128> I'm cracking under load with GNOME 2.28 tarballs today
[13:28] <kenvandine> pitti, do you have time to sponsor bug 340180
[13:28] <kenvandine> seb128, understand
[13:28] <seb128> thanks
[13:29] <pitti> kenvandine: hey; sure!
[13:29] <seb128> pitti, want to do http://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-power-manager/2.28/gnome-power-manager-2.28.0.tar.gz?
[13:29] <pitti> seb128: yes, would like to
[13:29] <kenvandine> pitti, awesome!
[13:29] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[13:30] <kenvandine> pitti, rick has been riding me hard about that one :) /me hears whip cracking noises :)
[13:34] <Laney> seb128: I'll have time for some updates later if you want
[13:34] <seb128> Laney, cool, let me know on the chan when you want some
[13:34] <Laney> probably be about 7 your time
[13:37] <didrocks> seb128: no, they should have broken it before the freeze but we didn't update it since. I'll check again this evening, I just did it in a quick run and I'm unsure now
[13:41] <Amaranth> ok, some more people around
[13:41] <Amaranth> any one here suffering from bug 430981 ?
[13:44]  * chrisccoulson wishes there was some documentation for libxrandr
[13:52]  * Amaranth wishes gtk-window-decorator would restart itself when it crashes
[13:55] <chrisccoulson> you should rather wish for it not to crash in the first place ;)
[13:55] <seb128> register it in the session
[13:56] <Amaranth> seb128: that's too complicated to do now
[14:00] <seb128> Amaranth, right
[14:03] <seb128> tarballs are flying today already ;-)
[14:03] <asac> gnome-terminal suggests all kind of fonts to me atm
[14:04] <pitti> kenvandine: can you please say something in jabber?
[14:04] <pitti> kenvandine: I minimized empathy now and switched desktop, that should give me notifications and entries in i-a, shouldn't it?
[14:04] <kenvandine> yes
[14:05] <pitti> kenvandine: can you please ping me?
[14:05] <seb128> pitti, I can if you want
[14:05] <pitti> ah, I get the notification
[14:05] <pitti> seb128: you pinged twice, or is that a bug? (seb128 and Sebastien Bacher, like icq and jabber)
[14:05] <pitti> kenvandine: the envelope doesn't change if there are messages
[14:06] <kenvandine> humm
[14:06] <seb128> pitti, I pinged on irc, icq and jabber
[14:06] <pitti> seb128: merci
[14:06] <kenvandine> pitti, ping me
[14:06] <pitti> kenvandine: meh, I can't open a chat window any more
[14:06] <kenvandine> did empathy crash on you?
[14:07] <pitti> no, I can open a chat window for seb128, but not for you; clicking just doesn't do anything
[14:07] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:07] <kenvandine> i hit that a couple times last week, but couldn't repro it reliably
[14:07] <kenvandine> if empathy crashes and you have an open chat
[14:07] <pitti> works for everyone but you
[14:07] <kenvandine> mission-control-5 needs to be killed
[14:07] <pitti> -rw------- 1 martin martin 3570058 2009-09-19 17:20 _usr_bin_nautilus.1000.crash
[14:07] <pitti> -rw------- 1 martin martin 1057591 2009-09-21 09:34 _usr_lib_notify-osd_notify-osd.1000.crash
[14:07] <kenvandine> or wait a couple minutes
[14:08] <pitti> look unrelated
[14:08] <kenvandine> ok
[14:08] <kenvandine> weird
[14:08] <kenvandine> i got it a couple times when empathy was crashing constantly
[14:08] <kenvandine> it is like MC thinks the chat is still open
[14:08]  * hyperair notes that notify-osd loves to crash
[14:08] <kenvandine> if you give it a minute, MC figures it out
[14:09] <pitti> kenvandine: I killed it, didn't help
[14:09] <kenvandine> oh
[14:09] <kenvandine> my side i bet
[14:09] <pitti> heh, placing a call works
[14:09] <Laney> how complete is adium theme support?
[14:09] <kenvandine> Laney, pretty complete
[14:10] <Laney> cool
[14:10] <Laney> I have a nice one on my macbook
[14:10]  * Laney will give it a go
[14:10] <tgpraveen> Laney: unfortuately only a graphical installer for webkit themees are missing
[14:10] <tgpraveen> rest all are there
[14:10] <kenvandine> you can put them in the right place
[14:10] <kenvandine> or create a package
[14:11] <kenvandine> pitti, ping me
[14:11] <pitti> kenvandine: can't
[14:11] <kenvandine> sigh
[14:11] <kenvandine> well maybe that bug is becoming easier to reproduce :)
[14:12] <kenvandine> that isn't related to the indicator patch though
[14:12] <kenvandine> i was getting that when testing voice calls and crashing empathy
[14:14] <tgpraveen> kenvandine: if someone calls me on empathy and i am not at my computer and hence miss the call. does indicator-applet store the the call was missed? empathy currently doesnt
[14:14] <tgpraveen> and on the bug report for
[14:14] <kenvandine> it should stay in the indicator
[14:15] <kenvandine> but
[14:15] <tgpraveen> it the devs suggested maybe something like t-a or notifyosd should store the history
[14:15] <kenvandine> the question is what happens when you select it
[14:15] <kenvandine> t-a?
[14:15] <tgpraveen> *i-a sorry
[14:15] <kenvandine> ah
[14:15] <kenvandine> i-a would store it
[14:15] <kenvandine> and i think if you select it, it would take you into the call UI
[14:15] <kenvandine> so you could call them back
[14:16] <kenvandine> but i haven't tested that
[14:16]  * kenvandine will test that today
[14:16] <tgpraveen> i still feel emapthy should store such info and others such situations like someone sends a file to me and i miss that
[14:16] <kenvandine> not sure i agree
[14:17] <kenvandine> i would like to know someone was trying to reach me yes
[14:17] <kenvandine> perhaps empathy should have some notion of recent activitiy
[14:17] <kenvandine> so you could see events you might have missed
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - you've been busy today;)
[14:18] <chrisccoulson> there will be no updates for me to do soon
[14:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh don't worry I know how it goes
[14:18] <seb128> there will be plenty of upgrades to do
[14:18] <seb128> especially that I've sport tonight so I will be away until 7 pm and 9 pm or something
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> thats ok then, i'll try and get some in then ;)
[14:19] <seb128> I also let all the non default install tarballs
[14:20] <seb128> and some I've no interest in
[14:34] <lool> pitti: Thanks, fixed in SVN
[14:37] <pitti> lool: merci
[14:37] <Amaranth> mvo: oh man, you reset unredirect fullscreen windows?
[14:38] <Amaranth> there were like 5 or 6 really nasty bugs fixed by turning that off
[14:38] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer31
[14:38] <rickspencer31> hi kenvandine
[14:38] <Amaranth> mvo: maybe we can just set that to true in the compiz-wrapper check for nvidia?
[14:41] <seb128> pitti, bug #428115 is fixed in git wait for today's tarball
[14:52] <pitti> uh, why do I suddenly have metacity running...
[14:52] <pitti> ... and no KMS>.
[14:53] <rickspencer31> pitti: do you have gm645?
[14:53] <mvo> Amaranth: yeah, I did - based on the report from chrisccoulson that it makes his nvidia very unhappy
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer31: yes
[14:53] <Amaranth> mvo: yeah, white screen
[14:53] <Amaranth> mvo: I've added a patch to enable it in compiz-wrapper when it detects nvidia instead
[14:53] <pitti> that's the second time this happens; something at boot doesn't set up i915 correctly or so
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer31: hello!
[14:53] <rickspencer31> hi pitti
[14:53] <Amaranth> pitti: It fails to load intel_agpgart before i915
[14:53] <rickspencer31> pgraner mentioned to me last night that he can't get compiz running
[14:54] <rickspencer31> and he is running 645
[14:54] <Amaranth> err, intel_agp
[14:54] <pitti> rickspencer31: right, I think I saw sth. like that at boot
[14:54] <pitti> seems to be a race condition
[14:54] <seb128> hey rickspencer31
[14:54] <mvo> Amaranth: ok, thats fine with me
[14:54] <pitti> ugh, metacity is slooooooooooooooooooow these days
[14:54] <Amaranth> I edited /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and added intel_agp\ni915
[14:54] <pitti> switching windows takes ages for repainting
[14:54] <Amaranth> until someone figures it out :)
[14:54] <Amaranth> pitti: You're also running with zero acceleration since UXA depends on drm
[14:55] <pitti> (EE) intel(0): [drm] Failed to open DRM device for : No such file or directory
[14:55] <rickspencer31> pitti: seb128: kenvandine: team meeting tomorrow?
[14:55] <pitti> right, that's probably be it
[14:55] <pitti> rickspencer31: *slightly confused* sure?
[14:55] <kenvandine> rickspencer31, i think we should
[14:55] <seb128> rickspencer31, yes, why not?
[14:55] <seb128> is this week special in any way?
[14:55] <rickspencer31> okay, I won't be there, so who wants to run it?
[14:55] <seb128> ah ok
[14:55] <pitti> o/
[14:55] <seb128> there you go ;-)
[14:55]  * rickspencer31 makes sidelong glances at pitti
[14:56] <seb128> rickspencer31, not there for the day? ie no weekly call either?
[14:56] <rickspencer31> sweet
[14:56] <rickspencer31> seb128: right, I think I'll need to cancel everything until Thursday
[14:56] <seb128> ok
[14:56] <seb128> everything is fine on your side?
[14:56] <rickspencer31> I'll try to get ArneGoetje on IRC tonight
[14:57] <rickspencer31> "fine"?
[14:57] <rickspencer31> honestly, I am a bit concerned about boot experience, and Empathy
[14:58] <Amaranth> mvo: ok, pushed
[14:58] <Amaranth> mvo: btw, those constrain_y changes were committed to git
[14:58] <pitti> rickspencer31: I'll put in the new usplash artwork soon, but ATM I'm not really sure how to actually bring usplash back
[14:59]  * pitti reboots; this is ridiculous, brb
[14:59] <rickspencer31> ug
[14:59] <rickspencer31> btw, I'm at LinuxCon
[15:00] <rickspencer31> I can't believe I forgot tomention this
[15:00]  * rickspencer31 kicks self'
[15:00] <mvo> Amaranth: aha, sweet - so time for a compiz upload soon
[15:00] <Amaranth> mvo: along with a fix for bug 430518 in staticswitcher and bug 414535 in libcompizconfig
[15:01]  * \sh would really like to switch gdm themes...but invane..the functionality is just gone somehow
[15:02] <Amaranth> http://cgit.compiz.org/compiz/plugins/staticswitcher/commit/?id=2097105fdf35ef7cbb40ce8e0c00e7d08f89c080
[15:02] <Amaranth> he even mentions it in the commit :)
[15:02] <james_w> urgh, gir-repository isn't very archive friendly, is there a plan to do anything about that soon?
[15:02] <Amaranth> \sh: themes? what themes?
[15:02] <\sh> Amaranth: the gdm login screen ;)
[15:02] <pitti> back, that's better
[15:02] <Amaranth> james_w: Once all the gir work is done the idea is to ship those with the projects they deal with
[15:02] <Amaranth> \sh: there are no themes
[15:03] <james_w> Amaranth: yes, I know, I wondered if there was a timeline for that
[15:03] <Amaranth> \sh: except for changing the GTK+ theme and changing the background
[15:03] <\sh> Amaranth: yes...but I have now xubuntu on it...I want to have gnome back ... so System -> Admin -> Login Screen doesn't work anymore
[15:03] <james_w> it's a bit of a release issue
[15:03] <\sh> Amaranth: yes that's it :)
[15:03] <Amaranth> james_w: last I heard it was... some day
[15:03] <Amaranth> james_w: not any time soon
[15:04] <james_w> Amaranth: right, so I'm asking if there is a plan to do a split source or anything
[15:04] <Amaranth> james_w: upstream?
[15:04]  * Amaranth is lost
[15:04] <james_w> no, Ubuntu
[15:04] <james_w> if upstream isn't ready then they are not ready
[15:07] <Amaranth> james_w: what's wrong with it now?
[15:07] <james_w> something in main depends on it
[15:07] <james_w> and it build-depends on every component that it has information for
[15:07] <Amaranth> ah, but it pulls in a bunch of junk
[15:07] <james_w> so that have the information for one thing in main we need to promote everything
[15:07] <james_w> so it's an archive consistency issue
[15:08] <james_w> which makes it more pressing for Ubuntu
[15:08] <mpt> mvo, victory, just sent the apt: URL redirector + screenshot proxy RT
[15:08] <\sh> bah..please dear gnome, don't tell me GDM stuff is only changeable via gconf?
[15:09] <Amaranth> \sh: and only if you start gconf-editor inside gdm or use sudo -u gdm gconftool-2
[15:09] <Amaranth> it's really not supposed to be user themeable, I don't think
[15:10] <\sh> Amaranth: well...so after the mess with the {x}ubuntu-default-settings last week ro so...someone is really lost
[15:10] <mvo> mpt: great
[15:15] <seb128> the new gdm doesn't allow to change half of what the old allowed
[15:15] <seb128> don't look for xml themes or that sort of things they are not there
[15:16] <\sh> seb128: right..I was just wondering if there is a replacement "Login-Screen" UI for the old behaviour
[15:16] <seb128> what old behaviour?
[15:16] <\sh> seb128: e.g. changing the background via System -> Admin -> Login Screen
[15:17] <seb128> no, the tool right now allows to change the autologin or timed login option and that's about it
[15:17] <seb128> upstreams want to have the background setting to be a "set system default" option in the appearance capplet
[15:18]  * asac off some NM testing
[15:18] <\sh> seb128: and where do i change the greeter stuff? without running sudo -u gdm gconftool-2 ?
[15:19] <seb128> you don't
[15:22] <Amaranth> wtf, my Post Comment button is missing launchpad :/
[15:24] <pitti> kenvandine: hm, it seems it doesn't auto-open conversation windows any more?
[15:24] <pitti> kenvandine: by and large this change feels pretty buggy :-(
[15:24] <kenvandine> auto open?
[15:24] <Amaranth> ah, user scripts screwing up with new edge layout
[15:25] <kenvandine> should only open them when you select it
[15:25] <pitti> kenvandine: oh, the previous version didn't either, right
[15:25]  * kenvandine would hate that :)
[15:25] <pitti> kenvandine: I think what I meant is that there's nothing in the panel any more which tells me an incoming message
[15:25] <pitti> before I just clicked on the empathy icon
[15:25] <kenvandine> it should be in the indicator though
[15:25] <pitti> now it'S completely silent
[15:25] <pitti> kenvandine: yes, but I don't see that in the panel
[15:25] <kenvandine> we need to fix the green dot
[15:26] <pitti> kenvandine: there is no green dot any more :-(
[15:26] <kenvandine> i am working on that now
[15:26] <kenvandine> it is a new property in libindicate
[15:26] <kenvandine> i am adding it
[15:26] <pitti> i-a-session says I'm offline, and the envelope never changes shape
[15:26] <pitti> ah, ok
[15:26] <kenvandine> pitti, yeah... we need to beat on tedg about that one :)
[15:27] <kenvandine> tedg, what is up with the status in indicator-applet-session?
[15:27] <kenvandine> seems to be working less than it was a week ago
[15:27] <kenvandine> and i still see no icons
[15:28] <tedg> I'm not sure why you see no icons.  I haven't investigated that.
[15:28] <kenvandine> tedg, nobody does :)
[15:28] <tedg> What's the issue with it not working as well as a week ago?
[15:28] <tedg> kenvandine: Nobody has icons, or nobody understands why you don't?
[15:28] <kenvandine> well a week or so ago, i could kill the applet after empathy started
[15:28] <kenvandine> and it would get my status
[15:29] <kenvandine> nobody seems to have icons
[15:29] <tedg> kenvandine: srsly?  (/me is trying to be hip)
[15:29] <kenvandine> and the status is grayed out
[15:29] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:29] <kenvandine> yes... we talked about this last week :)
[15:29] <seb128> works here but I'm not uptodate
[15:30] <seb128> I expect is not one of ted's component which changed
[15:30] <kenvandine> doesn't work in a clean VM
[15:30] <seb128> rather the icon theme or something
[15:30] <seb128> well I've all the dxteam tarballs uptodate there
[15:30] <seb128> but not the rest of the distro
[15:30] <kenvandine> so you see status icons?
[15:30] <seb128> yes
[15:30] <kenvandine> humm
[15:31] <kenvandine> a fresh install with all updates does not
[15:31] <kenvandine> oh... could it be the menu icons thing?
[15:31] <tedg> kenvandine: I dont' expect Empathy using MC5 only to work.  Only if you have MC4.
[15:31] <tedg> kenvandine: Do icons show up in a guest session?
[15:31] <kenvandine> not sure... but they don't show up in a pristine VM
[15:31] <kenvandine> which should be the same thing
[15:32] <kenvandine> we actually just had this problem in gwibber, the throbber wasn't appearing because of the change to hide menu icons
[15:32] <tedg> Hmm, okay.
[15:32] <kenvandine> could that be it?
[15:32] <tedg> Oh, yeah, if menu icons are hidden, they will get hidden.
[15:32] <kenvandine> ok
[15:32] <Amaranth> kenvandine: If that was the case seb128 wouldn't see icons either
[15:32] <kenvandine> well that is the default
[15:33] <kenvandine> Amaranth, unless he has overridden that setting
[15:33] <Amaranth> hmm, I suppose
[15:33] <kenvandine> tedg, you can set a property to make sure they are displayed
[15:33] <seb128> are we speaking about the icon on the panel or the submenu ones?
[15:33] <tedg> kenvandine: Yes, but if people want things to be sparse, it seems like those should be too.
[15:33] <Amaranth> gtk_image_menu_item_set_always_show_image ()
[15:33] <tedg> seb128: Submenu
[15:34] <seb128> oh ok
[15:34] <seb128> but those are not objects
[15:34] <seb128> they should not have icons always displayed
[15:34] <tedg> seb128: Yes, but they are a "key" for figuring out the panel icon.
[15:34] <seb128> well the panel icon is working there
[15:34] <Amaranth> also "always-show-image" property
[15:34] <kenvandine> seb128,  i think the design team wants them displayed
[15:34] <kenvandine> i am getting the panel icon
[15:34] <seb128> kenvandine, on what basis?
[15:35] <kenvandine> dunno
[15:35] <Laney> ooh, new gwibber
[15:35] <mac_v> seb128: i thought mpt mentioned that the status icons were exceptions
[15:35] <seb128> bah
[15:35] <Laney> kenvandine: does the message area resize properly now?
[15:35] <seb128> that whole object should have icons is just confusing to me
[15:35] <Amaranth> seb128: On the basis that he said so? ;)
[15:35] <kenvandine> you mean the editor?
[15:35] <Laney> the list of messages
[15:35] <kenvandine> not sure if that was fixed
[15:35] <seb128> tedg, btw some people suggested that inkspace was not usable without icons ;-)
[15:36] <Amaranth> You mean the bug where gwibber is always vertically maximized?
[15:36] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:36] <tedg> seb128: I would agree :)
[15:36] <mpt> seb128, it'll take a while to get used to which kinds of things should and shouldn't. I think it's reasonable to count IM statuses as objects, especially since you can trivially add and remove custom statuses.
[15:36] <kenvandine> tedg, PROP_VISIBLE, is that the old DRAW_ATTENTION?
[15:36] <Laney> no, when you resize the window too large, messages only displayed up to a certain part of it
[15:37] <Laney> so you had an ugly blank area
[15:37] <kenvandine> Laney, i haven't seen that
[15:37] <Laney> looks like the canvas wasn't bound to the size of the window somehow
[15:37] <tedg> kenvandine: No.  PROP_VISIBLE sets whether the indicator is hidden or not.
[15:37] <Laney> kenvandine: I'll get you a screenshot later
[15:37] <kenvandine> ok
[15:37] <seb128> mpt, to be honest I've difficulties to get used to no icon, I find way harder to pick a system action now
[15:37] <tedg> kenvandine: Draw attention is whether it wants the user's attention.
[15:37] <Laney> I just start it up and resize to the full height of my screen and see it there
[15:37] <mpt> seb128, what do you mean by "a system action"? Can you give a couple of examples?
[15:38] <seb128> mpt, restart, shutdown, etc in the fusa menu
[15:38] <mac_v> ^ +1
[15:38] <mpt> ah
[15:38] <mpt> well, that's because there are too many of them. ;-)
[15:38] <seb128> right
[15:38] <seb128> but since we will not simplify the number of choices for karmic icons would be useful
[15:39] <seb128> we can drop those when we have a number of options you can parse from a quick look
[15:40] <mac_v> mpt: also the lack of the icons for the System menu[Admin , prefs] seems odd... since the rest of the menu has the icons  , but only those 2 dont have icons! [i understand the reason for the move... But , IMO , it looks odd ... :(
[15:40] <Laney> Does anyone remember the recent RB discussion about some cover art not showing in notify-osd?
[15:41] <Laney> I can't recall what the problem was
[15:41] <Amaranth> All we have to do is implement this: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/11/21.html :P
[15:41] <seb128> Laney, I can find the bug number easily but I'm not sure anybody figured the issue
[15:41] <Laney> seb128: I think it might have been something to do with image size?
[15:41] <Laney> I was going to see if Banshee has the same behaviour
[15:42] <seb128> Laney, bug #360228?
[15:42]  * mac_v also doesnt have album art displayed  :(
[15:43] <Laney> seb128: not blurred, for some songs which have artwork it isn't displayed
[15:43] <seb128> Laney, ok, dunno about this one
[15:43] <Laney> alright
[15:43] <mac_v> seb128: that bug was actually fixed in notify-osd
[15:43] <Laney> there was some discussion in here, dont know if there was a bug
[15:43] <seb128> amazon broke covert fetching
[15:43] <seb128> but that should be fixed in the current karmic version
[15:44] <mac_v> seb128: Bug #393797
[15:44] <mpt> mac_v, yes, it does, but we can solve that in other ways.
[15:45] <Laney> Now, on Karmic, the basic problem is still there but covers which no fit the "ratio that have to be fit" simply doesn't appear anymore.
[15:45] <Laney> might be a clue
[15:46] <mac_v> mpt: is it really essential to do that now , since we are anyway using gnome3 in the next release ;)
[15:46] <mpt> mac_v, not for Lucid we're not
[15:46] <Laney> it's not very nice having to special-case notify-osd like that
[15:46] <mac_v> hrmm... /me got wrong info from phoronix
[15:47] <dobey> hrmm
[15:47] <mac_v> mpt: grrr... >http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzU0NQ
[15:47] <mac_v> they have wrong info!
[15:47] <mpt> yes, they do
[15:48] <mpt> reliable source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l02bhwofEqw
[15:48] <mac_v> ;)
[15:48] <dobey> pitti, seb128: do you think it would be possible to get a new version of intltool into karmic?
[15:50] <seb128> dobey, yes probably what does it change?
[15:50] <Amaranth> mac_v: He practically yells "GNOME 2 desktop" :P
[15:50] <mac_v> only now i'm watching this ;)
[15:51] <didrocks> Amaranth, mac_v : we have the same wrong info in France. People assuming that GNOME 3 will be in the next LTS without doing any info check :/
[15:51]  * mac_v hates youtube :/ ... too much spam videos with wrong labels
[15:52] <mac_v> s/much/many
[15:52] <Amaranth> didrocks: It doesn't even make sense though
[15:52] <seb128> didrocks, it will be just gnome-shell will not be on by default
[15:52] <didrocks> seb128: does gnome-panel will still exists in GNOME 2.30?
[15:52] <seb128> GNOME3 is basically a normal GNOME update + gnome-shell
[15:52] <didrocks> exist*
[15:52] <dobey> seb128: bunch of bug fixes mostly. no new features. of particular interest to me though is the python quotes handling fix
[15:52] <seb128> didrocks, yes for those who don't have compositing
[15:53] <didrocks> seb128: oh great, dunno that
[15:53] <seb128> dobey, sounds ok for an update now
[15:53] <dobey> seb128: ok, great. i'll do the work, unless it's super trivial for someone else to do
[15:54] <seb128> dobey, should be trivial to do, where is the tarball?
[15:54] <dobey> launchpad.net/intltool/+download
[15:55] <seb128> ok
[15:55] <dobey> probably why sid doesn't have it yet...
[15:55] <dobey> the watch file needs to be updated i presume
[15:56] <seb128> that and I guess people who watch the gnome ftp list didn't notice it either
[15:57] <mpt> Amaranth, even scarier, "Gnome 2.0". :-)
[15:58] <Amaranth> mpt: That's probably why people thought 3.0
[16:05] <pitti> dobey: sounds appropriate
[16:05] <dobey> seb128: right
[16:12] <chrisccoulson> i wish people would stop just randomly reopening bug tasks without leaving any comment
[16:13] <seb128> yeah, same here
[16:14] <chrisccoulson> it's really annoying, and they generally don't even subscribe to the reports they sabotage either
[16:14]  * Amaranth just helped fix a system that wouldn't boot due to a stale mtab lock file
[16:14]  * Amaranth loses all hope in the linux boot process
[16:15] <rickspencer31> Amaranth: is there a bug on that?
[16:15] <Amaranth> rickspencer31: I asked him to file one
[16:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I usually subscribe them when changing back and adding a comment
[16:15] <seb128> that's when I'm not lazy
[16:15] <rickspencer31> Amaranth: thanks, and thanks for sticking with it
[16:15] <Laney> I had someone called Artur Rona sabotage some of my reports recently
[16:16] <seb128> when I"m lazy I just change it back
[16:16] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's what i've just done
[16:16] <Laney> when I emailed him he said "Someone needs to sort out this mess."
[16:16] <chrisccoulson> the person who just sabotaged the latest report only created a launchpad account yesterday
[16:16] <Amaranth> If someone changes the status on a bug without comment like that I just change it back without comment most of the time
[16:16] <Laney> apparently he didn't like that I had linked Debian reports to my merge bugs
[16:16] <chrisccoulson> i had another user suspended from launchpad last week for sabotaging another report
[16:17] <Amaranth> I think lots of times they are just mad the bug isn't fixed _right now_ on their machine and they have to wait for the next release
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - fair enough, but a lot of them don't leave a comment ;)
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> i'd be inclined to think they were doing it just to be a nuisance
[16:18] <Amaranth> I would hope the comment above their change is the changelog showing it was fixed so they can check the version but they probably won't even bother
[16:18] <Amaranth> I know I've had at least one bug report I've gone back and forth on a couple times because someone didn't have the fix in their stable release
[16:21] <seb128> we need a good page explaining why we can't backport every single change to stable
[16:23] <chrisccoulson> perhaps https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates could be improved to explain it
[16:25] <huats> seb128: I am taking care of gucharmap
[16:25] <seb128> huats, ok
[16:26] <rugby471> mvo, mpt mac_v: hello
[16:26] <mpt> hi rugby471
[16:26] <rugby471> pitti: did you manage to look at that merge?
[16:27] <mpt> mvo, so, what's the story with bug 396527? What do we need to show?
[16:27] <pitti> rugby471: hm, I didn't, sorry; I did not get mail about it for some reason; can you please paste the url?
[16:27] <rugby471> pitti: sure
[16:28] <mac_v> rugby471: hi... i added a mockup for SS history ;) ... but not sure how it looks , mpt hasnt commented about it ;p
[16:28] <rugby471> pitti: https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/jockey/fix-386375/+merge/11990
[16:28] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: can you send me a mail with a link to some of these messed-with bugs?
[16:28] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: I can look into it
[16:28] <rugby471> mac_v: I looked at it this morning, it looks a bit complicated, however I am sure it could be modified
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - sure. i can remember the last 2 anyway, and the user from the first one has already been suspended from launchpad
[16:29] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: yeah I just want to have some examples and bring it up to the lp bugs team
[16:29] <mac_v> rugby471: mpt yeah... i think the departments can be grouped together in a combo menu
[16:30] <mvo> mpt: the story is that aptdaemon is not implementing it yet, but its fixed in bzr, so we need a new version of that and a bit of plumbing to connect the dots
[16:31] <pitti> rugby471: thanks, done
[16:31] <hyperair> seb128: could you look at bug #433813 please?
[16:31] <rugby471> pitti: thankyou :-)
[16:32] <mpt> mvo, ok. Do you plan showing the diff for 1.0? Or just an alert with buttons to keep your current version vs. use the package version?
[16:33] <seb128> hyperair, acked
[16:34] <hyperair> seb128: thanks
[16:34] <mvo> mpt: I think we should have a diff for 1.0, that is what synaptic and g-a-i offer
[16:34] <mvo> mpt: they use a expander for this
[16:34] <mpt> heh, ok, tall order
[16:34] <rugby471> mvo: I have started work on the history section :-)
[16:34] <mpt> let me sketch one up
[16:35] <rugby471> mvo: I am using elementtree to write a history.xml file
[16:36] <rugby471> mvo: and then parsing that :-)
[16:36] <mvo> rugby471: I saw that in your branch :) post-1.0 unfortunately :(
[16:36] <rugby471> mvo: ofcourse :-)
[16:37] <rugby471> mvo: and the changes for the dependency dialogs are too much for the ui freexe I think as well
[16:37] <rugby471> *freeze
[16:37] <mvo> mpt: "tall order" ?
[16:37] <mpt> mvo, so you do you plan a single UI Freeze exception request for that and the "matching items" string changes etc?
[16:38] <mvo> mpt: I think that makes sense. its probalby not that much of a issue because we don't have a great deal of translations yet anyway
[16:38] <mpt> mvo, colloquial expression meaning a challenge.
[16:38] <rugby471> mvo: incase you haven't seen the current state of the history, here it is http://videobin.org/+gb/it.ogg
[16:38]  * ccheney will have much faster (~ 4x) upload speeds by next week, hurray
[16:39] <pitti> chrisccoulson: how much will you get?
[16:39] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that was directed at ccheney wasn't it?
[16:39] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[16:39] <mpt> mvo, what's the probability of the new path button for 1.0? Zero? Ten percent? Eighty percent?
[16:39] <mvo> mpt: well, we can just use the same dialog as synpatic, it will not be worse than what we had before
[16:39]  * pitti is still stuck with a 0.6 MBit straw
[16:39] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oops, sorry
[16:40] <pitti> ccheney: how much will you get?
[16:40] <ccheney> pitti: 8m/2m i think, currently i only can get 3m/.5m, i am moving at the end of the week, afaik
[16:40] <pitti> ccheney: nice
[16:40] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's ok pitti - but you woke me up!
[16:40] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[16:40] <mvo> rugby471: nice
[16:40] <seb128> oh, chrisccoulson is awake
[16:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sorry for interrupting your dreams
[16:40]  * seb128 pushes updates chrisccoulson's way
[16:40] <mvo> mpt: the new path buttons? 1% - sorry but there is just too much other stuff that needs to be done
[16:40] <ccheney> pitti: i'll finally get back to the level of access i had 10 years ago, when i worked for a telco, lol :)
[16:40] <rugby471> mvo: hehe
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, work time is for catching up on sleep here ;)
[16:41] <mpt> mvo, ok, that's what I thought, I was just mildly confused by you having worked on it last week. :-)
[16:41] <mvo> mpt: we should have a branch in the ppa for people to play with the shinny, I would love to push out the pathbar stuff, just not release with it :)
[16:41] <mvo> mpt: I like it, it looks just amazing
[16:41] <huats> seb128: I am also taking the gtksourceview
[16:41] <seb128> huats, ok
[16:42] <huats> (once versions.html is updated :))
[16:42] <mpt> mvo, indeed it does.
[16:42] <mpt> mvo, can you think of a reliable way for me to trigger that conf file conflict dialog in Synaptic so I can tweak it?
[16:42] <mpt> (see it to tweak it, I mean)
[16:45] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - i just sent you an e-mail with a couple of examples in
[16:46] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: sweet. If you ever run into things that break your workflow feel free to ping me with it and I'll bring it up to the lp bugs team. I "collect" issues like this strangely enough.
[16:46] <mvo> mpt: I will make a screenshot for you, give me a sec
[16:48] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - thanks:)
[16:48] <chrisccoulson> the second example was less disruptive, but the first example has a lot of tasks on it, and the user changed almost all of them
[16:50] <mpt> Maybe bug supervisors should have a "Revert back to this state" menu item for each element in the history
[16:54] <mvo> mpt: http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Untitled Window.png
[16:54] <seb128> dobey, is that normal that the new intltool version has no NEWS?
[16:56] <Amaranth> mvo: spaces in URL = bad :)
[16:59] <mpt> Amaranth, it's a Chromium bug
[17:00] <Amaranth> mpt: No no, Chromium opens them fine
[17:00] <Amaranth> xchat doesn't make links of them correctly
[17:01] <mpt> Amaranth, I mean, if you copy an URL containing spaces out of Chromium's address bar, it doesn't escape the spaces.
[17:01] <mpt> With Firefox, it does.
[17:01] <Amaranth> oh
[17:01] <mpt> And with Epiphany, the spaces already get escaped when it loads the URL.
[17:01] <Amaranth> cool, mvo is using chromium too :)
[17:01] <jcastro> it's the new black
[17:02] <Amaranth> mvo: I made a modified stock replies userscript that (almost) works correctly
[17:02] <Amaranth> as long as you don't mind seeing the stock replies twice and don't want to edit them :P
[17:02] <Amaranth> http://people.ubuntu.com/~amaranth/greasemonkey/
[17:03] <Amaranth> Don't try any of the other scripts, edge changed so they just break things
[17:04] <mac_v> rugby471: simplified it ;) ... check latest mockup
[17:05] <mpt> thanks mvo
[17:07] <mac_v> mpt: Software store history mockup > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore/Mockups?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=history1.png
[17:09] <mpt> mac_v, I still don't think it's necessary to get rid of the navigation pane in this section any more than any of the other sections
[17:09] <rugby471> mac_v: I like it better, however I don't feel it fits in with the rest of SoftwareStore
[17:09] <rugby471> pretty much what mpt is saying :-)
[17:09] <mac_v> ;)
[17:10]  * mvo celebrates rev300 of software-store and calls it a day
[17:10] <mpt> mac_v, and in the same vein, why use the screenshots -- rather than icons -- to represent applications in this section, but not in every other section?
[17:10] <mac_v> rugby471: mpt: we could just add the navigation pane to the left
[17:11] <mpt> mac_v, also, the blue color is supposed to signify "you're somewhere in the Get Free Software section". :-)
[17:11] <Amaranth> Holy crap that feature will be awesome
[17:11] <mpt> (though there are a couple of annoying exceptions to that at the moment)
[17:11] <Amaranth> mpt: I thought blue meant not installed an white meant installed
[17:12] <rugby471> Amaranth: HERE IS THE CURRENT STATE OF THE HISTORY SECTION http://videobin.org/+gb/it.ogg
[17:12] <rugby471> oops caps-lock on :-(
[17:12] <Amaranth> Cruise control for cool and all
[17:12] <mac_v> mpt: this section is like a description , and it would be noce to have the screenshot of the app for recall rather than just the icon... the blue was because i used the main section window to do the mockup... nothing specific ;)
[17:12] <mpt> Amaranth, that's one of the annoying exceptions: If you're looking at an app in the G.F.S. section that happens to be installed, its background is white and should be blue
[17:12] <mvo> mvo: I don't use the script that much anymore, because they tend to break too much :(
[17:12] <rugby471> mpt: are you sure, I thought it was correct
[17:12] <mpt> I should report a bug about that
[17:12] <Amaranth> mvo: you mean me :P
[17:13] <rugby471> hehe mvo is speaking to himself
[17:13] <Amaranth> rugby471: Not enough emphasis on the installed dates
[17:13] <mvo> rugby471: histroy> yeah, we need to make sure it can present stuff installed via apt-get in the future too, but its a good start
[17:13] <rugby471> Amaranth: you mean in the calendar?
[17:13] <mvo> Amaranth: yes
[17:13] <Amaranth> Really the best interface would probably be the month/year arrows with a list of days things were installed
[17:13] <mvo> rugby471: speaking to oneself is the first sign of madness, no?
[17:13] <rugby471> hehe
[17:14] <rugby471> Amaranth: I was thinking about that, maybe we will have to write our own gtkCalendar
[17:14] <rugby471> Amaranth: however for a prototype it is okay
[17:14] <Amaranth> so the month/year arrows from the calendar widget then "6 items installed on the 12th" "57 items installed on the 16th"
[17:14] <mac_v> rugby471: just copy fspot's ;)
[17:14] <Amaranth> So you can say "Oh, that's why my system doesn't boot anymore" ;)
[17:14] <rugby471> Amaranth: we might end up going with mac_v and mpt's ideas https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore/Mockups?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=history1.png
[17:15] <Amaranth> mac_v: That window title font makes me cry :P
[17:15] <rugby471> Amaranth: that is exactly what I was thinking, except by the  it is probably too late :-)
[17:15] <Amaranth> rugby471: Live CD recovery tools :)
[17:16] <mac_v> Amaranth: meh... the settings were all messed up! since i wanted to use the human theme ;p
[17:16] <Laney> what's a department in that context?
[17:16] <rugby471> Amaranth: true...
[17:16] <rugby471> Laney: departments - Office, Graphics, Other etc.
[17:16] <mpt> rugby471, those aren't my ideas :-P
[17:16] <mpt> Laney, it's a department store, y'see
[17:16] <rugby471> mpt: welll I didn't want to leave you out :-)
[17:16] <mac_v> Laney: accessories/games/graphics/...
[17:16] <Laney> oh, I get it
[17:18] <rugby471> mac_v: I think the f-spot style widget would be best, however someone has to write the widget in python :-)
[17:18] <rugby471> mac_v: so until someone wants to do that, the calender is the next best thing :-)
[17:19] <mac_v> mpt:  i'v credited you too in the mockup page ;p
[17:20] <mac_v> rugby471: the calendar's main problem is its bulky :(
[17:20] <rugby471> mac_v: yep, and too many dates shown that nothing happens on
[17:20] <rugby471> mac_v: that's why the timeline is great
[17:21] <rugby471> mac_v: but as I said, it needs someone to write it :-)
[17:21]  * mac_v pokes rugby471 to write it ;p
[17:21]  * rugby471 reminds mac_v he isn't that good :-)
[17:22]  * rugby471 finds a treasure trove http://billreminder.googlegroups.com/web/dateslider.py
[17:22]  * rugby471 jumps up and down
[17:22] <rugby471> mvo, mpt: mac_v: this is the f-spot slider in python http://billreminder.googlegroups.com/web/dateslider.py
[17:23] <rugby471> just need to check with the author whether we can use it
[17:23] <mpt> rugby471, and the author would need to sign the contributor agreement
[17:23] <mac_v> rugby471: IIRC mpt wanted a much prettier slider ;)
[17:23] <rugby471> mpt: ofcourse
[17:24] <rugby471> mpt: I shall email him now
[17:26] <rugby471> mpt: he is an ubuntu user *score!*
[17:26] <Laney> isn't billreminder written by kirkland?
[17:27] <rugby471> Laney: dunno
[17:27] <Laney> might be something else
[17:27] <rugby471> Laney: but this luiz guy is the one who wrote the widget
[17:28] <Laney> alright
[17:29] <rugby471> mpt: email sent
[17:30] <mpt> good jorb
[17:30] <Laney> It was divitup that I was thinking of
[17:31] <rugby471> mpt, mvo: I have told him to email em back, but if a guy called Luiz starts talking to you you know who it is :-)
[17:31] <rugby471> em > me
[17:36] <mpt> ok
[17:42] <pitti> hm, where's software-store nowadays, menu-wise?
[17:42] <pitti> mvo, seb128: I don't have it any more in apps, and neither in system
[17:43] <seb128> pitti, it's pending upload from mvo
[17:43] <mvo> seb128: what needs to change in the desktop file?
[17:43] <seb128> it's using nodisplay=true right now because that was required in the system menu
[17:43] <rugby471> pitti: thanks for that :-)
[17:43] <seb128> mvo, you don't read bugs email do you? ;-)
[17:43] <mvo> seb128: no :( I'm too busy adding new ones
[17:44] <seb128> mvo, I'm half joking when asking that, if email is not a good way to reach you I will note it
[17:44] <seb128> mvo, not even assigned bugs using pitti's filtering?
[17:44] <seb128> mvo, any it just needs to drop the NoDisplay=true you added recently
[17:44] <seb128> they changed their mind about where to display it
[17:44] <rugby471> mvo: maybe a rev 301?
[17:44] <seb128> it's replaceing the gnome-app-install one in the application menu
[17:45] <mvo> seb128: ok, I check the bug and upload a r301 .)
[17:46] <rugby471> mvo: Iam currently integrating the history stuff into software-store
[17:46] <mvo> rugby471: could you create a post-karmic branch for that please?
[17:46] <rugby471> mvo: sure
[17:46] <mvo> rugby471: that makes merging easier for me :)
[17:46] <rugby471> ok
[17:46] <rugby471> mvo: I shall do that and then revert changes in my normal branch
[17:47] <mvo> rugby471: great, many thanks
[17:47] <mvo> seb128: its just the NoDisplay? sorry for the dumb question, the bug is not that clear
[17:47] <seb128> mvo, just drop the NoDisplay=true you added a week ago
[17:47] <seb128> mvo, sorry about the bug not being clear ;-)
[17:48] <mvo> seb128: np - many thanks, I upload now
[17:49] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
[17:49] <pitti> I wondered whether this still uses gksu, or policykit now
[17:49] <pitti> evand proposes a new usb-creator with PK support
[17:50] <pitti> and I think we don't have a lot of gksu stuff left (or any at all, except synaptic)
[17:50] <mpt> seb128, the awkward thing about that is that it was completely hidden in alpha 6, afaik
[17:50] <mvo> language-selector
[17:50] <mvo> pitti: ^---
[17:51] <pitti> mvo: ah, right
[17:51] <seb128> mpt, I did the change on friday afternoon, it was in the system menu for alpha6
[17:51] <mvo> but yeah, other than this it looks very good
[17:51] <mpt> ah, ok
[17:51] <seb128> pitti, gdebi
[17:51]  * mvo needs to leave now
[17:51] <mvo> that too
[17:54] <mpt> rugby471, can the list of applications in a department easily have a separator in it somewhere?
[17:54] <rugby471> mpt: sure
[17:54] <mpt> rugby471, ok, I'm just speccing the 1.0 solution for bug 432819
[17:55] <rugby471> mpt: yup I thought so :-)
[17:55] <mpt> rugby471, which will be: If there are any apps with X-AppInstall-AlwaysOnTop, list them alphabetically followed by a separator, then list all the others alphabetically.
[17:55] <mpt> Probably you could have guessed that. :-)
[17:57] <seb128> ok, time for a sport and dinner break, I will be back in 2.5 hours
[17:57] <seb128> everybody feel free to claim updates meanwhile
[17:57] <rugby471> mpt: you were saying about how installed software was not marked with a blue background in software-store
[17:57] <rugby471> mpt: that has been fixed
[17:57] <seb128> anything not upload or claimed on launchpad should be free
[17:57] <seb128> and the versions page gets regular updates
[17:58] <mpt> rugby471, no, that it should have a blue background in the "Get Free Software" section but not in the "Installed Software" section.
[17:58] <rugby471> mpt: oh
[17:58] <rugby471> mpt: ok
[18:00] <rugby471> mpt: horray! the history stuff is working :-)
[18:00] <c_korn> tedg: hello. I replied to the bug report.
[18:00] <rugby471> mpt: now the writing to the xml file has been integrated
[18:00] <c_korn> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/433274/comments/3
[18:02] <dobey> doh, just missed seb
[18:02] <mpt> rugby471, bravo.
[18:02] <rugby471> hehe
[18:02] <rugby471> gotta do some work now
[18:02] <rugby471> :-)
[18:07] <Amaranth> I think there have been at least a dozen seemingly different bugs that have been confirmed as being fixed by disabling unredirect_fullscreen_windows
[18:07] <Amaranth> I feel sorry for nvidia users, stupid driver :/
[18:25] <didrocks> updating brasero
[18:26] <huats> updating bug-buddy and pessulus
[18:27] <huats> (gucharmap and gtksourceview2 are waiting for sponsors)
[18:33] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:34] <didrocks> have good night pitti
[18:43] <didrocks> taking gnome-terminal
[19:03]  * ccheney hopes he is just experiencing jaunty intel driver issues and not actual problem with his system
[19:03] <ccheney> lots of weird video corruption :-\
[19:04] <hyperair> try karmic
[19:04] <hyperair> i switched to karmic because of all kinds of intel driver issues
[19:04] <ccheney> its either memory corruption or a video driver problem, its dropping weird pixels all over my screen
[19:04] <ccheney> well it is memory corruption period i suppose, but may be driver or memory itself
[19:04] <hyperair> ouch
[19:05] <ccheney> i suppose i should reboot and verify its not my memory with memtest86
[19:08]  * ccheney moved his irc session to another system so he can test it
[19:11]  * Amaranth is burying himself in bug mail
[19:11] <Amaranth> stupid launchpad sending bug mail for your own changes :/
[19:11] <dobey> heh
[19:11] <dobey> well i would have that problem solved, if the API was available
[19:14] <ccheney> looks like a crap driver issue, or at least not ram, haven't gotten any memory errors yet
[20:35] <cassidy> kenvandine, hey. Any news about the Ubuntu Adium chat theme?
[20:39] <kenvandine> hey cassidy
[20:40] <kenvandine> not going to ship one
[20:40] <kenvandine> we have one, but based it on one that shipped without a license
[20:40] <kenvandine> as most seem to do
[20:40] <cassidy> :(
[20:45] <hyperair> adium? or do you mean pidgin?
[20:45] <kenvandine> we contacted the author who volunteered to release it under a friendly license, but then revealed that he had just modified someone else's work...
[20:45] <kenvandine> and the original author hasn't responded
[20:45] <kenvandine> hyperair, empathy adium
[20:45] <hyperair> ah
[20:46] <kenvandine> so i guess we need to just create something from scratch
[20:46] <kenvandine> which won't happen for karmic
[20:50] <Zdra> kenvandine, sad
[20:51] <kenvandine> yup
[20:51] <Zdra> kenvandine, there are no theme with good licence we could install by default?
[20:51] <kenvandine> Zdra, i think the indicator patch is about ready to be merged into master :) (post 2.28 of course)
[20:51] <Zdra> kenvandine, even if not looking like human, but just to get some demo theme
[20:52] <kenvandine> i couldn't find any decent ones with licenses
[20:52] <Zdra> :/
[20:52] <kenvandine> if you know of any, i would be happy to package it
[20:52] <kenvandine> at least get it into universe
[20:52] <kenvandine> adium extras is like wild-wild west
[20:53] <Zdra> kenvandine, tbh I would consider no licence like free for all
[20:54] <kenvandine> we can't ship that though
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> well, that was a long day!
[21:07] <seb128> wb chrisccoulson
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> time to do some work now:)
[21:08] <Zdra> kenvandine, you'll have to see with cassidy for the review of indicator patch ;)
[21:09] <kenvandine> :)
[21:09] <kenvandine> he's tough
[21:09] <kenvandine> :)
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> empathy got indicator support now?
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> i'll have to try that out in a bit
[21:09] <kenvandine> robert_ancell went over it and finished fixing everything from the last review
[21:09] <Zdra> chrisccoulson, kenvandine did a patch, not merged upstream
[21:09] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, in karmic
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> Zdra - cool
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> thanks kenvandine:)
[21:10] <kenvandine> Zdra, i really want it upstream after 2.28 :)
[21:10]  * chrisccoulson adds indicator to panel
[21:10] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i have a couple updates to the patch, adds avatar and the green dot
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> cool!
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> green dot?
[21:19] <kenvandine> when you have a new message. anything that should draw your attention to it
[21:20] <kenvandine> there will be a green dot over the envelope
[21:20] <hyperair> hmm power manager's not locking my screen when i suspend
[21:20] <hyperair> why is that, i wonder?
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - known issue
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> that will be fixed in the next gnome-session update
[21:22] <hyperair> ah
[21:22] <hyperair> okay
[21:22] <hyperair> that's great
[21:22] <chrisccoulson> the issue is that gnome-power-manager is not involved when you suspend manually now, and so there is nothing yet which locks the screen
[21:22] <hyperair> i figured as much
[21:22] <chrisccoulson> right, g-s-t is ready for sponsoring now:)
[21:23] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: is that also the reason for my suspend key not working?
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - thats unlikely. your suspend key could be any number of things, eg, not producing keypress events at kernel level, X not using the keyboard device or sending the wrong event etc
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> if you kill g-p-m and run xev, do you see any events?
[21:24] <hyperair> i thought it was settings-daemon which grabbed the suspend key
[21:24] <hyperair> my suspend key turns off my monitor's backlight for some reason
[21:24] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - gnome-power-manager grabs that key
[21:25] <hyperair> hmm something else is grabbing it
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> if it turns off your monitors backlight, then it might be mapped incorrectly somewhere
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> best thing is to kill g-p-m and g-s-d and see what keysym it produces
[21:26] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: keycode 150 (keysym 0x1008ff2f, XF86Sleep)
[21:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - based on the information already in bug 432692, that might actually be fixed by the gnome-session patch i've written
[21:26] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: gnome-settings-daemon was grabbing it
[21:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok good
[21:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it looks the same from the data there anyway
[21:28] <Amaranth> Why does every crash for compiz that involves nvidia crash inside the nvidia driver?
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - just wondering which plugin grabs that key in g-s-d
[21:28] <Amaranth> And some guy just got done yelling at me for suggesting radeons using fglrx would be better :)
[21:29] <hyperair> hmm
[21:30] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - g-s-d doesn't grab that by default, but you can configure the media-keys plugin to grab it
[21:30] <chrisccoulson> it's not there by default though
[21:30] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - what is the output of gconftool-2 --dump /apps/gnome_settings_daemon/keybindings ?
[21:31] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: there's a suspend shortcut in the keyboard shortcuts.
[21:31] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: i bound that to XF86Sleep
[21:31] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: deleting that binding stops the screen blanking
[21:31] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - oh, ok. i would remove that, it doesn't do anything:)
[21:31] <hyperair> okay
[21:31] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: well apparently it does something now :)
[21:31] <chrisccoulson> the sleep key handling in g-s-d doesn't work. perhaps i should just patch it to remove it completely
[21:32] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: i can't restart gnome-power-manager for some reason.
[21:32] <hyperair> ** (gnome-power-manager:22706): WARNING **: Either HAL or DBUS are not working!
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> was it running before?
[21:32] <hyperair> it was
[21:32] <hyperair> i killed it earlier
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm
[21:32] <hyperair> for some reason it's trying to locate hal
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> tried a reboot?
[21:33] <hyperair> no
[21:33] <chrisccoulson> hal is still needed for the backlight stuff isn't it?
[21:34] <hyperair> no it isn't
[21:34] <hyperair> at least i don't think it is
[21:34] <hyperair> last time i went digging through gpm code i saw xbacklight and xrandr things
[21:34] <Amaranth> alright, got rid of about 50 bugs in compiz set to New, I think I'm going on bug triage for the day
[21:34] <hyperair> oh well. i just started hal and gpm is up again
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> hyperair, FYI gnome-settings-daemon runs "apm xset dpms force off" when you map the sleep key
[21:35] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: in KMS land backlight is all handled through xbacklight
[21:35] <hyperair> and my suspend key works now. woo
[21:35] <seb128> Amaranth, in case I didn't say it yet, good to see you around and working on compiz again ;-)
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - did g-p-m grow support for that yet?
[21:35] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: meh. what's up with that behaviour?
[21:35] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: not sure
[21:36] <hyperair> Amaranth: the brightness applet works, and that's part of gpm so i reckon yes
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - which behaviour? the sleep key handling in g-s-d?
[21:36] <hyperair> yep
[21:36] <Amaranth> All I know for sure about KMS and backlights is that my panel backlight can't be adjusted in KMS mode
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> it's redundant functionality there, and should just be removed now
[21:36] <hyperair> it could at least bug devkit
[21:36] <hyperair> at least suspend would do what it was supposed to do
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> i'll report a bug upstream for that one
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - i don't think there's any point in making the functionality in g-s-d work. we already have g-p-m for that
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> it should just get removed, as it's cruft now:)
[21:37] <hyperair> i think it would be nice for the suspend key to remain configurable
[21:37] <Amaranth> seb128: thanks, it's fun to be able to complain about drivers again :)
[21:37] <hyperair> can't we have the keyboard shortcuts option remain and instead hook up to gpm?
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - possibly - but that would need to be configurable in g-p-m really
[21:37] <hyperair> hmm yeah
[21:37] <hyperair> it would
[21:37] <hyperair> file a bug upstream =D
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - would you mind if i complained about the nvidia drivers?
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> :)
[21:38] <Amaranth> g-p-m could ship a keybindings file and the keybindings capplet would pick it up automatically
[21:38] <Amaranth> so long as g-p-m has some option for sleep key in gconf already
[21:38] <hyperair> heh
[21:38] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: I'll join you
[21:38] <hyperair> it doesn't i think
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - do we share the same hatred for nvidia?
[21:39] <Amaranth> 3 damn years they've known about that bug
[21:39] <Amaranth> oops, it's even got my swearing :P
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it seriously sucks
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> i wish i could get my money back for crappy drivers;)
[21:39] <hyperair> what bugs?
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - the white screen of death
[21:39] <Amaranth> bug 160264
[21:39] <Amaranth> maybe?
[21:39] <Laney> seb128: got any updates in mind?
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - yeah, thats the one
[21:39] <Laney> for me to do
[21:40] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: I've had to say it so much in the last hour I memorized it :)
[21:40] <seb128> Laney, there is lot to do
[21:40]  * hyperair gets nice beautiful flickers.
[21:40] <hyperair> with nvidia i mean
[21:40] <Laney> seb128: Shall I just pick from the list then?
[21:40] <seb128> Laney, yes please
[21:40] <hyperair> i seriously don't understand what's gone wrong that can cause an LCD to fliker
[21:40] <Laney> k
[21:40] <hyperair> flicker*
[21:40] <seb128> Laney, the version page is updated every half an hour again
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - thats because we have to enable "unredirect fullscreen windows" in compiz to work around rubbish nvidia drivers ;)
[21:40] <Amaranth> hyperair: my monitor shows snow
[21:40] <hyperair> lol
[21:41] <Amaranth> but I think that's by design
[21:41] <Amaranth> It looks pretty fake
[21:41] <Laney> alright then
[21:41] <seb128> Laney, do you prefer to do universe ones?
[21:41] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: does that result in flickers when nothing is open?
[21:41] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: i.e. even my desktop wallpaper flickers
[21:41] <Amaranth> hyperair: monitor flickers or flickers where you wallpaper shows and nothing else?
[21:41] <chrisccoulson> hyperair - it should only be flickers with fullscreen stuff
[21:41] <hyperair> more like everything
[21:41] <Amaranth> ok, that's just bad timing on the video out
[21:41] <Laney> seb128: not really, I'd rather help get the main ones out of the way
[21:41] <hyperair> everything flickers
[21:42]  * hyperair usually runs that computer headless
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - my monitor shows snow when i've been awake for a long time ;)
[21:42] <Amaranth> nvidia: failing at VESA for over 5 years
[21:42] <hyperair> flickers drive me nuts
[21:42] <seb128> Laney, ok excellent so just pick on the page and maybe announce what you do on the channel too to avoid conflicting during the half an hour upgrade time
[21:42] <Amaranth> (time made up)
[21:42] <Laney> sure
[21:43] <seb128> session restart after dist-upgrade brb
[21:43]  * hyperair => bed
[21:43] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: The funny thing is when I told people they had nvidia so they were going to keep getting flicker they immediately went to nvnews and opened a thread about nvidia being slow when that option is disabled
[21:43] <Laney> kklimonda: I just saw transmisson, can we merge with debian on that one?
[21:43] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: They completely ignored the reason I said the option was staying enabled
[21:43] <Laney> not necessarily for this upload, but I saw that they have 1.75 in sid now
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - i've not been on to nvnews for a while. i think the last time i went on there it was just full of users complaining about the same issues
[21:44] <Amaranth> yep
[21:45] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: that's why I told aaronp about the white windows directly on IRC and made sure he understood what I was talking about and said he was going to look into it
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - that was probably some time ago though wasn't it? it seems like they've been aware of this issue for a long time
[21:46] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: yeah, that was probably about 3 years ago when he was hanging out in the beryl channel and the driver just started supporting compiz and beryl
[21:47] <chrisccoulson> heh, beryl! i was never brave enough to run that
[21:47] <Amaranth> I was actively using my nvidia laptop at the time and ran into the problem about a week after the beta driver with that capability was released
[21:48] <Amaranth> yay compiz is below 500 bugs open
[21:49] <Amaranth> whoa someone actually ran valgrind on compiz after I asked them
[21:49] <dyek> Hi! Is DeviceKit available on Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty? As HAL is deprecated, can my application use DeviceKit API and still runs on Jaunty?
[21:49] <Amaranth> this has...never happened before
[21:49] <seb128> was that of any use?
[21:49] <seb128> dyek, hi, no
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> vuntz_ - you there? would you mind reviewing the patch at gnome bug 590828 when you get some spare minutes? we're getting quite a lot of duplicates of this now:)
[21:50] <Amaranth> arg, no, I failed at explaining it
[21:50] <Amaranth> they ran `valgrind compiz`
[21:50] <Amaranth> so it ran valgrind on the shell script
[21:51] <dyek> seb128: OK. What is the best solution if I need ALSA device (appearing, disappearing) notification and targeting Jaunty (and new releases moving forward)?
[21:52] <chrisccoulson> dyek - the only real solution if you want it to be backwards compatible is to have both HAL and libgudev support in the source, and #ifdef one of them out at compile time
[21:53] <chrisccoulson> but thats hideous, which is why a lot of things in karmic are not backwards compatible with the old infrastructure
[21:54] <chrisccoulson> Amaranth - your issue with valgrind and the compiz wrapper script there is a common issue when trying to get users to debug things which daemonize
[21:55] <chrisccoulson> you forget that if you run GDB on it normally, it will always exit with success;)
[21:56] <dyek> Are there DBus signals that enable me to be portable across Jaunty and karmic?
[21:57] <dyek> chrisccoulson: Thanks! I read that udev requires root privilege except for the latest kernel. How latest is the kernel version before root privilege is not required?
[21:57] <dyek> Thanks, seb128, for the response earlier!
[21:59] <seb128> dyek, you're welcome
[23:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you plan to look at the gnome-session update?
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do that
[23:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's already late you should probably not start on anything you are not working on already ;-)
[23:10] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i'll look at it tomorrow unless you do it in the meantime;)
[23:10] <seb128> it will probably be done before your end of day at work tomorrow
[23:10] <seb128> robert_ancell has a full day of work before we wake up and then I've a full day of work
[23:11] <seb128> we can tackle quite a list ;-)
[23:11] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i wish i had time to do some more ;)
[23:12] <seb128> you already do a lot
[23:22] <Amaranth> chrisccoulson: while you're in there can you look into my patches? :)
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> hi Amaranth - if I do the update, then I will look at them
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> but it sounds like it might get done before i get the chance ;)
[23:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - if you or robert_ancell work on the gnome-session update, you might want to grab http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=143559
[23:24] <chrisccoulson> it *should* fix several LP bugs, although I can't say if it does as I don't know which client the reporters are using which triggers the crash
[23:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, I will do
[23:24] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[23:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw any clue how to debug unknow clients registered to the session?
[23:24] <dobey> seb128: btw, yes, NEWS is expected to not be there
[23:25] <dobey> seb128: it was superflous and hasn't been updated in a long while anyway
[23:25] <seb128> dobey, that's not cool
[23:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - not sure. what is it you're trying to debug?
[23:25] <dobey> why not?
[23:25] <seb128> dobey, your component has no ChangeLog, no NEWS, no summary of any change, how do you expect us to decide if that's a candidate for an update?
[23:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, on my desktop I often get the gnome-session dialog about applications registered to the session and not responding
[23:26] <seb128> and it has an "unknown software" entry
[23:26] <seb128> I would like to know what software is that which is unknown and breaking my logout ;-)
[23:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's a difficult one. it depends if it is caused by an unresponsive application, or a client that registered an inhibitor earlier on and forgot to release it
[23:27] <dobey> seb128: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~intltool/intltool/trunk/changes ?
[23:27] <seb128> dobey, that's nowhere in the tarball
[23:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - have you tried running gnome-session with --debug?
[23:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, no, it doesn't happen in a reliable way, I should run gnome-session --debug all the time but it's quite verbose ;-)
[23:28] <dobey> seb128: right
[23:28] <seb128> that was just in case you had a tip for debugging those
[23:29] <seb128> I will try to get a --debug log next time
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it does give a lot of output. does ~/.xsession-errors get truncated? I'm just thinking it might be worth running a local build with debug on by default, just to see if anything useful appears
[23:29] <dobey> seb128: do you know a good way to automate that?
[23:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it should
[23:30] <seb128> dobey, no but tedg might they were discussing that sort of things recently
[23:30] <seb128> brb
[23:35] <dobey> ok
[23:35] <dobey> also... i have no idea what the heck git is trying to tell me
[23:36] <dobey> all i want to do is switch back to master
[23:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i fixed the issue i mentioned on friday about python-gda linking against libpython2.5
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> or at least i think i have
[23:41] <seb128_> oh, nice
[23:41] <seb128_> where was it?
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> it seems upstream committed a change to link it to fix a specific issue on windowd
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> s/windowd/windows
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> so i just reverted the commit ;)
[23:43] <seb128_> chrisccoulson, oh ok ;-)
[23:48] <Amaranth> Ok, got my clean jaunty install setup
[23:48] <Amaranth> now to install drivers and setup bootchart then upgrade to karmic
[23:50] <chrisccoulson> i have to say, this release is looking quite nice now
[23:59] <seb128> re
[23:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, updated gnome-session with your change ready
[23:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
[23:59] <chrisccoulson> i'm just building g-s-d now


[09:25] <rickspencer3> hey pitti, jibel
[09:26] <rickspencer3> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise/ :,(
[09:26] <jibel> rickspencer3, there is a problem with jenkins
[09:26] <pitti> eek
[09:27] <jibel> i.e not with the images. the slaves didn't restart this morning
[09:33] <jibel> pitti, rickspencer3 jenkins is back.
[09:33] <rickspencer3> yeah
[09:33] <jibel> I'll trigger all the jobs
[09:33] <rickspencer3> thanks jibel
[09:33] <rickspencer3> did you find the problem?
[09:34] <pitti> jibel: merci beaucoup
[11:20] <tumbleweed> can someone plesae process archive-admin sync requests?
[11:23] <cjwatson> I did yesterday, but there were a few I shelved until I could think about them properly; is there something you care about particularly?
[11:25] <tumbleweed> ah, I thought they'd been piling up, because I hadn't seen one I approved go through
[11:33] <cjwatson> iftop?
[11:34] <cjwatson> processing that one now
[11:35] <tumbleweed> sorry, should have said, yes, thanks
[13:56] <mvo> fwiw, I uploaded release-upgrader-{apt,python-apt} to lucid-proposed now, the libs/release-upgrader-python-apt packages are co-installable with the apt/python-apt on lucid and it will not affect the regular system in any way. a updated update-manager is ready too and can land once this is availalbe in -proposed. I tested the upgrade with my PPA (that has the packages too) and its working there
[14:23] <infinity> mvo: Shiny.
[15:13] <skaet> mvo,  :)