[01:35] <pleia2> ok, release time
[01:43] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 423 for the week June 22 - 28, 2015 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue423
[01:54] <pleia2> hm, we should add our social media things to the newsletter template
[02:32] <pleia2> blogged again, so hopefully I can dig up some new contributors
[02:43]  * ahoneybun has reweeted
[02:45] <pleia2> thank you!
[02:51] <ahoneybun> yep


[00:03] <arand> Would anyone care to opinionate as to wether Bug #582035 is SRU-material, and maybe set the priority to.. hmm, low, if I read the importance guidelines correctly (easy workaround).
[00:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 582035 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "User cancel of fsck gives: "fsck.ext4: Inode bitmap not loaded while setting block group checksum" (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582035
[00:41] <jcgs> hi, does anyone know what to do if i think i've found that a package in the repositories is unusable?
[00:42] <arand> jcgs: unusable in what way, which one was the bug report?
[00:43] <jcgs> erm , it breaks all applications (including GNOME apparently) that link to it
[00:43] <arand> This channel is a bit more specific to bug-handling, by the way.
[00:44] <jcgs> sorry, i'm kinda new at this (you might have guessed already)
[00:44] <jcgs> it's bug 540035
[00:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 540035 in pango-graphite (Ubuntu) "gimp-2.6 crashed on launch with SIGSEGV in gr::GlyphInfo::logicalIndex() (affects: 8) (dups: 2) (heat: 68)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540035
[00:46] <arand> Hmm, that is definitely something that is worth fixing.
[00:47] <jcgs> i agree
[00:47] <jcgs> i'm also in #kubuntu-devel atm, but not getting so much of a response
[00:48] <jcgs> arand: what do you think of my swap suggestion?
[00:48] <arand> I'm not sure a complete upgrade to newer version will be accepted, as per...
[00:48] <arand> !sru
[00:48] <ubot2> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[00:49] <arand> The best would be is the problem could be isolated to a small fix which could patch the current version...
[00:49] <jcgs> i think this package is so broken that no-one could possibly be operating it
[00:50] <jcgs> arand: i think this probably falls into the uninstallable category
[00:51] <arand> Indeed.
[00:52] <micahg> jcgs: please try: aptitude why pango-graphite
[00:52] <arand> Well, more like "completely unusable", and in addition breaking other applications... Hmm, it *might* warrant a complete version upgrade, yes.
[00:53] <jcgs> chris@sjoh2988:/usr/share/man$ aptitude why pango-graphite
[00:53] <jcgs> i   ttf-sil-doulos Suggests pango-graphite
[00:54] <micahg> k, not sure why it would be installled then
[00:54] <arand> Yes, it's all the ttf-sil-* fonts that depends on it.
[00:54] <jcgs> it's not
[00:55] <jcgs> michag: i installed it because it was suggested, and bad things happened
[00:55] <arand> Ah, yes, you're right, only suggests
[00:57] <arand> Hmm, have a look at: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango-graphite
[00:57] <arand> Seems like every single bug describes more or less this same issue
[00:58] <arand> And that's been going on since 2008 it seems
[00:58] <micahg> was deleted from testing, not sure why
[01:03] <arand> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=471642 has some interesting info
[01:03] <ubot2> Debian bug 471642 in pango-graphite "libpango1.0-0: iceweasel is crashing permanently with pango enabled" [Critical,Open]
[01:10] <arand> And the last update to that package was in 2005 !
[01:11] <arand> In sid, that is, seems to have been touched in ubuntu in 2008 at least
[01:12] <arand> No, ahng on that is in unstable, ignore last two comments
[01:14] <jcgs> arand: it appears the debian maintainer hasn't done anything about this
[01:15] <arand> Yes. Which is not very good indeed.
[01:21] <arand> jcgs: Hmm, If I look at http://packages.sil.org/ubuntu/ there doesn't seem to be any updated pango-graphite... ?
[01:23] <arand> jcgs: But in the state of things, I would reckon the best solution would be to simply follow debians lead and pull it from the repo completely. Unless someone steps up wanting to maintain it.
[01:23] <jcgs> indeed
[01:25] <arand> jcgs: Have you tested the SIL repo there, suggested by Johan Winge? (Like I said, I don't see and updated packages there at all..)
[01:27] <jcgs> no, but i'll have a look
[01:31] <arand> Hmm, I'm bed-bound soon though, and it will likely be easier to get hold of people who know the proper procedure for this (I don't) at other times of the day. I'll keep the backlog here though, it's definitely something in need of attendance.
[01:34] <arand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing%20Packages is likely the process to follow in case removal is appropriate.
[01:38] <jcgs> arand: thanks a lot you've been v helpful
[05:58] <drew212> micahg: are you around? i have a quick question
[05:58] <micahg> drew212: yes
[05:59] <drew212> bug 483099, it doesnt sound like a bug, as i recieve it sometimes after a crash from firefox, and it is easily worked around by "killall firefox", what do you think?
[05:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 483099 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) " computer report Firefox not responding close firefox or restart computer (affects: 4) (heat: 20)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/483099
[05:59] <micahg> drew212: it's a long standing bug
[05:59] <micahg> drew212: there might be a master bug somewhere
[06:00] <drew212> ill look
[06:00] <drew212> found it bug 308605
[06:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 308605 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "[MASTER]Firefox is already running message (affects: 13) (dups: 10) (heat: 182)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308605
[06:01] <drew212> i really need to look at all the master bugs
[06:03] <micahg> drew212: k, I guess that's the best place ATM
[06:03] <drew212> micahg: mark as duplicate?
[06:03] <micahg> drew212: yep
[06:04] <ddecator> yah that's been around a while..
[06:04] <micahg> drew212: thanks
[06:04] <drew212> micahg: for? lol
[06:04] <micahg> drew212: taking care of it :)
[06:04] <ddecator> drew212: the work :)
[06:05] <drew212> micahg: no problem =), i'm going to school to be a software eng. this is great practice... and will look great on a resume, best of all its hella fun =D
[06:06] <drew212> we need to add a response in the wiki about crashes being reported as general bugs
[06:06] <micahg> drew212: I'll tell you about my adventure with that in #ubuntu-chicago :)
[06:07] <ddecator> drew212: btw, if you're still interested in getting involved with the kernel, at the last qa meeting JFo announced that there will be some changes to kernel triage and that they will be having classes on how to work with kernel bugs. i think there will be an email sent to the bugsquad ML, so keep your eye out for that :)
[06:08] <drew212> ddecator: thakns =)
[06:09] <drew212> micahg: is there a bug response about someone submitting a bug report thru apport that should be a crash report, such as bug 592416
[06:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 592416 in firefox-3.5 (Ubuntu) "Firefox suddenly disappears several times lately (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592416
[06:11] <micahg> drew212: what you did there is great
[06:12] <micahg> drew212: w/out a crash report or specific reproduce steps, there's not much we can do
[06:12] <drew212> micahg: but what we need to do is add something like that kind of response to the wiki
[06:13] <micahg> drew212: ah, yes
[06:13] <micahg> drew212: I forgot to do that
[06:13] <drew212> i can do it actually =P
[06:13] <drew212> maybe =P
[06:13] <micahg> drew212: there's something similar though
[06:13] <micahg> drew212: maybe send to ML about it w/a suggestion
[06:14] <drew212> micahg: who is ML?
[06:14] <ddecator> Mailing List
[06:14]  * micahg should have said the ML :)
[09:16] <BUGabundo_remote> raises the sales,row to south!
[09:31] <DrKenobi> Hi! I think this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/nautilus/+bug/393720 should be Wishlist, ok?
[09:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 393720 in nautilus "To hide files/directories is complex (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:35] <xelister> hi, please set priority https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/546728  to High.  Many users can not access internet! (so they cant get updates, find out how to resolve the problem, etc)
[09:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 546728 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Lucid] Huawei USB Modems not detected since upgrade. E620, E169 modems - need to install usb-modeswitch(-data) (affects: 17) (dups: 1) (heat: 82)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:36] <xelister> also the solution is quite trivial, just by defailt install missing package
[09:39] <BUGabundo_remote> xelister: known
[09:39] <BUGabundo_remote> and it's a dupe
[10:06] <xelister> BUGabundo_remote: what is the dupe?
[10:09] <vish> DrKenobi: that bug has to be forwarded upstream , yes it is a wishlist
[10:10] <DrKenobi> vish thank you, i'll right now
[10:22] <DrKenobi> vish the bug status https://bugs.launchpad.net/nautilus/+bug/393720 should be triaged now.
[10:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 393720 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "To hide files/directories is complex (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[10:22] <xelister> BUGabundo_remote: could you mark it as a dupe?
[10:23] <vish> DrKenobi: done. thanks
[10:26] <DrKenobi> vish, I think this is also a wishlist bug that should be sent to upstream https://bugs.launchpad.net/nautilus/+bug/393657
[10:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 393657 in nautilus "Assigning backgrounds in Nautilus (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[10:26] <BUGabundo_remote> xelister: not at home
[10:26] <BUGabundo_remote> don't have my handy mail to look for the dupe
[10:26] <BUGabundo_remote> bug searching for that description will find you a few of them
[10:27] <vish> DrKenobi: i think there is already a bug upstream for that, try searching if not there, yes , needs forwarding
[10:28] <DrKenobi> vish, i will look again, but i didnt find anything. Looking again
[10:39] <DrKenobi> vish, i found a bug upstream, what should i do? should i add a Bug Watch?
[10:39] <vish> DrKenobi: yup , add the upstream bug watch and add the ubuntu task as well
[10:40] <DrKenobi> whats the ubuntu task?
[10:42] <vish> DrKenobi: nautilus , use the "also affect distribution"
[10:42] <DrKenobi> vish, ok i'll try
[10:54] <DrKenobi> vish, now Bug #393657 should be set as triaged and wishlist
[10:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 393657 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Assigning backgrounds in Nautilus (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393657
[10:56] <vish> DrKenobi: done
[10:56] <DrKenobi> thanks vish!
[10:56] <vish> np.
[10:58] <DrKenobi> does anyone knows hot to set as duplicate a bug at Bugzilla?
[11:33] <vish> DrKenobi: which bug?
[11:45] <DrKenobi> vish, this https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594168 and this https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158793 bugs
[11:45] <ubot2> Gnome bug 594168 in Backgrounds Emblems and Themes "Add support for specifying folder background properties on a per-folder basis" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[11:48] <vish> DrKenobi: yeah , if you havent reported the bug , you cant change that upstream .. they have their triagers/bug maintainers who set that
[11:50] <DrKenobi> oh ok, so it was a good idea to leave a message. thanks!
[13:09] <xteejx> Hey guys!
[13:10] <xteejx> Wow I just looked at yesterday's bugday for gnome-games....nearly every single one was done!! :)
[13:13] <DrKenobi> xteejx u did a great job
[13:13] <xteejx> Thanks :) I actually had time to do it this week
[13:14] <xteejx> Kinda hopping between triaging now and merging for motu, but just starting so bug hunting is better at the mo lol
[13:15] <DrKenobi> but i found some bugs that where not triaged or fixed but highlighted with green :-S
[13:16] <DrKenobi> c u later, wc2010!
[13:16] <xteejx> DrKenobi: Yeah that's fine as long as they're being dealt with
[13:16] <xteejx> Anyone on here that sees me around knows I always go back to old reports every 2 weeks or so :D
[13:18] <DrKenobi> xteejx, i was not talking about u, i don't remember who did it. Just think that is not the ideal way to do it
[13:19] <xteejx> Oh right :) But yeah I agree, especially with perhaps 'less experienced' triagers - I've seen plenty of bug reports that have a standard response and it's not been looked at since - bloody annoying makes us look bad!
[13:45] <DrKenobi> xteejx, yep, u r right
[14:04] <hggdh> DrKenobi: you still need a dup set on b.g.o?
[14:05] <pedro_> oh wow nice progress on the bug day folks!
[14:07] <hggdh> DrKenobi: they are not actually dups -- one wants the same background everywhere, the other asks for *different*, specific backgrounds
[14:08] <DrKenobi> hggdh, let me read them again
[14:10] <DrKenobi> hggdh, i think Bugs 594168 it's included in Bugs 158793
[14:10] <ubot2> DrKenobi: Error: Bug #594168 not found.
[14:10] <ubot2> DrKenobi: Error: Bug #158793 not found.
[14:12] <DrKenobi> because setting all the directories under a specific directory should be an option
[14:30] <hggdh> DrKenobi: ack
[14:34] <hggdh> DrKenobi: thinking more on it -- 594168 needs to be there in the first place; 158793 depends on it
[14:35] <hggdh> DrKenobi: but I agree -- I will set the others as dup of 158793, and add the specific comment
[14:37] <DrKenobi> hggdh: ok, thank you!
[14:38] <xelister> cool, lucid-propsed kmail crashes too
[14:38] <xelister> 4 years using kmail. No version yet was not-crashing.
[14:38] <DrKenobi> xelister, thats a long time!
[14:38] <xelister> I'm getting actually a number of __GI___*  backtraces from various applications.  what is that?
[14:39] <xelister> (3 or 4)
[14:39] <hggdh> DrKenobi: done
[14:40] <DrKenobi> hggdh: thank you!
[14:40] <xelister> kmail-dbgsym: Depends: kmail (= 4:4.4.2-0ubuntu5) but 4:4.4.4-0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa1 is installed.
[14:40] <xelister> #5  0x00007f2516a4f337 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libkmailprivate.so.4
[14:40] <xelister> how to get proper dbgsym for lucid-proposed's kmail?
[14:43] <xelister> anyone?
[14:43] <xelister> in sources.list.d I have also line    deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com lucid-proposed main restricted universe multiverse
[14:44] <hggdh> xelister: if the dbgsyms are not there, then have not yet being created
[14:44] <xelister> so, lucid-proposed's kmail crashs (as EVERY other kmail version ever in ubuntu),  and there are not even debug symbols to debug it?
[14:46] <hggdh> xelister: (1) you can always build from source, and get it all; (2) you can try kdepim-dbg (which carries the symbols for this lib); (3) please tone down your comments
[14:47] <xelister> how my comments are not tonned down? Well, thoes are just facts, I have yet to see kmail version that is stable in every day advanced usage
[14:50] <xelister> it seems many/all -dbgsym packages are broken in lucid-proposed, is this expected?
[14:50] <xelister> aptitude install libkdepim4-dbgsym=4:4.4.4-0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa1  -->   Unable to find a version "4:4.4.4-0ubuntu1~lucid1~ppa1" for the package "libkdepim4-dbgsym"
[14:54] <hggdh> xelister: if this came from a PPA (as the version string suggests) you have to take it to the PPA owners
[14:55] <hggdh> and a PPA will most probably not have dbgsyms, at most only dbgs
[14:56] <xelister> kmail    kmail-dbgsym      There is no -dbg.  Only dbgsym would be detailed enough it seems for #5  0x00007f2516a4f337 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libkmailprivate.so.4
[14:56] <xelister> wouldn't it make sense to esepcially build dbgsym's for packages that are proposed and undergo reviews?  do you need machinepower to build that all, or what is the problem? I could build some dbgsym's if it's easy
[14:57] <hggdh> the package that carries /usr/lib/libkmailprivate.so.4 is kdepim-dbg. You can find from where a file comes via 'apt-file search'
[14:58] <xelister> well, http://pastebin.com/CftKSCyV
[15:00] <hggdh> yes, your installation is broken
[15:09] <yofel> xelister: the kmail debug symbols are in kdepim-dbg
[15:09] <yofel> meh
[15:10] <yofel> should read the whole backlog before answering ^^
[15:11] <hggdh> heh
[17:37] <arand> If the combination of pango-graphite and ttf-sil-doulos makes gnome not start, is the fault likely in pango-graphite, or may it be in the font package as well? I've tested three of the ttf-sil-* fonts packages, two induces the problem, one does not.
[17:40] <micahg> arand: most likely pango-graphite
[17:40] <arand> micahg: Ah, yes, still poking in the same issue as yesterday.
[17:41] <arand> Would you say I should just go ahead and file a removal request?
[17:41] <micahg> arand: what happened to getting it updated in debian?
[17:43] <micahg> arand: I don't see any PPAs
[17:45] <micahg> arand: there's an 0.9.3 version released last year, maybe file an update request in debian
[17:45] <arand> micahg: Well, I'm contacting the sil.org people, they've got a repo, but there's no pango-graphite in there..
[17:45] <micahg> arand: k, are they still developing it?
[17:45] <arand> Just to check if there actually is an updated version, or if they at all are supporting it...yea
[17:46] <micahg> arand: there's an updated version as of last year
[17:46] <arand> Where?
[17:46] <micahg> http://sourceforge.net/projects/silgraphite/files/
[17:47] <arand> Ah, hadn't stumbled upon that, ok, well then updating in debian becomes a more relevant option..
[17:47] <micahg> arand: right, so I'd suggest filing a request to update in debian
[17:48] <arand> Yea, ok, we'll see how it works out there, since it has no maintainer atm
[17:49] <micahg> arand: there's a maintainer in debian
[17:51]  * micahg will bbiab
[19:41] <vish> crimsun_: hi , could you update your time available > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
[21:26] <tawmas> Hi! I was trying to see if anything changed in #587142 after the latest updates to the appmenu, but I no longer can seem to get appmenus for any application. Is this just me missing something new, or there is some problem in act?
[21:29] <jbicha> tawmas: did you try logging out and logging back in?
[21:29] <tawmas> jbicha: no, I just restarted the panel... isn't this good enough?
[21:30] <jbicha> jbicha: I don't know; perhaps appmenu needs more than just the panel restarted though
[21:30]  * tawmas is about to logout and login again...
[21:31] <tawmas> jbicha: thanks, for now, I'll let you know
[21:35] <tawmas> jbicha: it works now, it indeed needed a logout/login. Thanks again
[21:38] <tawmas> bye
[21:50] <micahg> oh boy, bug  592837
[21:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 592837 in ubuntu "bug filing difficulties annoyance (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592837
[21:50] <micahg> pedro_: ^^
[21:54] <kklimonda> micahg: *shrug* some people have attitude like that, nothing we can do about that. I'm pretty sure there is no way of reasoning with him and he's entitled to his own opinion..
[21:54] <micahg> kklimonda: right, that's why I pinged pedro about it :)
[21:54]  * micahg thinks someone official should respond
[22:43] <yofel> er... he even unsubscribed from the bug, filed it again as bug 592839 and marked that as a security vulnerability...
[22:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 592839 in ubuntu "bug filing difficulties annoyance (affects: 1) (heat: 260)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592839
[22:46] <micahg> yofel: I saw


[03:10] <sabhain> storage group directories .. create in filesystem first, or from mythtv-setup?
[04:16] <foxbuntu_vm> sabhain, you need to create them and give the correct permissions first mythtv-setup wont create them
[04:18] <sabhain> foxbuntu_vm .. thanks for the input.  Sort of got there by trial and error .. seems to work pretty well.  It took me a bit to recognize the difference between "Storage Groups" and "Storage Directories" .. very cool that these can be separate things.
[04:19] <sabhain> now if I can figure out the purpose of the "Watch List" .. I'll be cooking with gas
[04:24] <hads> The watch list lists program that haven't been marked as watched basicaly.
[04:25] <hads> There are a few more advanced algorithims that it uses to display what's in there but that's the guts of it.
[04:26] <sabhain> That sounds interesting .. just found the wiki page on the watch list .. I think it's a pretty good idea.  I'll have to have the users pay attention to it and see how it goes.
[04:28] <hads> It will show the oldest show that isn't marked as watched in a series for example.
[04:31] <sabhain> the odd thing here is that it doesn't mark a show as having been watched on my system.  Wonder why that would be?
[04:32] <sabhain> is it supposed to auto mark them?  or is it only a manual setting?
[04:32] <hads> When you are on the recording press the right arrow and a menu will popup. Then you can choose "Mark as watched"
[04:33] <hads> You can set it to do so automatically I believe, we don't as different people may watch things at different times.
[04:39] <sabhain> what's the difference between "recording group" and "playback group"?
[04:45] <sabhain> got it .. nm
[04:46] <sabhain> this thing is unbelievable .. the level of control / customization it affords you
[05:07] <sabhain> is there a setting to specify which recording group is highlighted when going to view recordings?
[05:08] <sabhain> seems to be set to "all Programs" by default .. and I wonder if you can change to "default" or 'new group' ??
[05:08] <sabhain> I don't want to use a filter, just want it to start at default group upon loading
[06:35] <Brian23> hello
[06:36] <Brian23> any online at the moment?
[06:37] <grndslm> maybe
[06:37] <Brian23> just need some help plz?
[06:37] <grndslm> dunno if i can help, but what's your question?  nobody can answer it if you don't ask!  =^)
[06:37] <Brian23> i need help setting up my Twinhan remote on Mythbuntu
[06:37] <grndslm> oh no... remotes aren't for me
[06:37] <grndslm> i have a wireless keyboard
[06:37] <Brian23> could u help me plz
[06:38] <grndslm> never even wanted to try
[06:38] <grndslm> sorry
[06:38] <Brian23> thats ok
[06:39] <Brian23> do u know of any direct compatable ones
[06:39] <Brian23> or is it possible to use a mouse?
[06:39] <grndslm> yea, you can use a mouse... i know that
[06:40] <Brian23> in the menu?
[06:40] <Brian23> i cant see it on the frontend
[06:40] <Brian23> only wheb i cofig stuff
[06:40] <grndslm> mythfrontend's definitely designed for a keyboard... but if you use the keyboard, there is an option to enable mouse cursor
[06:41] <Brian23> would ohok
[06:41] <grndslm> dunno how much the mouse can do -vs- a remote... but the option's there
[06:41] <Brian23> do u know of any compatable remotes with it?
[06:42] <grndslm> pretty sure any remotes you'd have to config somehow with lirc... but again, dunno... i heard of many problems with lirc, so i bought an IR keyboard/mouse combo a couple years ago for the cheap
[06:43] <grndslm> you can definitely enable the mouse cursor on the second page or so of the "appearance" menu
[06:44] <Brian23> is it hard to setup a bluetooth mouse on it
[06:44] <grndslm> shouldn't be harder than any other mouse... haven't really messed with bluetooth other than DUN with my phone, and that was pretty difficult
[06:45] <Brian23> ok
[06:45] <grndslm> seems like mouse works for everything in the menu except for the last step to actually clicking on a specific, recorded show...
[06:45] <grndslm> it just doesn't work for that
[06:46] <grndslm> i wish mouse support were better as an opiton... and they'd get away from mysql (always have problems with it myself), but the devs have their own thoughts on what's right & wrong
[07:06] <tgm4883_laptop> grndslm, note that feature requests can be made at blueprints.launchpad.net/mythbuntu
[07:08] <grndslm> it wouldn't be worth it... it'd never happen.  the devs are prolly right that mysql is the best choice, and (myth)ubuntu are making the setup easier and easier all the time
[07:09] <grndslm> i don't really care about the mouse thing, but it could be done where clicking on certain edges/corners have different effects
[07:20] <Tuv0k> bug #216431
[07:21] <Tuv0k> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/216431
[07:21] <Tuv0k> can't watach anything with mythtv fading to black
[07:21] <Tuv0k> the screensaver daemon is stoppped
[07:21] <Tuv0k> the monitor power save off
[07:22] <Tuv0k> I don't understand? Why myht still fading to black?
[07:23] <Tuv0k> If a fix was released, why am I still having issues?
[07:26] <foxbuntu_vm> Tuv0k, which ss daemon did you kill?
[07:26] <Tuv0k> the ibe that cones with ubuntu
[07:26] <Tuv0k> xscreensaver
[07:27] <Tuv0k> r the screensaver from system prefernces
[07:27] <Tuv0k> how many are there?
[07:27] <foxbuntu_vm> Tuv0k, does it fade to black and then the remote wont wake it or just has to be woke?
[07:27] <foxbuntu_vm> 2
[07:27] <Tuv0k> fade to black and I have to move the mouse
[07:27] <Tuv0k> the remote won' restore video
[07:28] <Tuv0k> 2?
[07:28] <foxbuntu_vm> yea...as I recall there is a second one...I fougt the exact same thing for along time
[07:29] <foxbuntu_vm> I am racking my brain trying to recall what it was
[07:29] <Tuv0k> how can I stp this behavior?
[07:30] <foxbuntu_vm> Tuv0k, thats what I am trying to remember, I dont have access to my machine atm so I cant look it up
[07:30] <Tuv0k> is it a screensaver issue?
[07:30] <Tuv0k> does myth have its own ss?
[07:30] <Tuv0k> I'd hope not
[07:30] <foxbuntu_vm> actually you said the power save on the monitor was off but did you disable DPMS?
[07:33] <Tuv0k> no
[07:33] <Tuv0k> I'm no touching dpms
[07:33] <foxbuntu_vm> dpms is your issue
[07:33] <Tuv0k> none of this was an issue pre-hardy
[07:34] <foxbuntu_vm> I had the same issue in edgy
[07:34] <Tuv0k> I never had such an issue
[07:34] <Tuv0k> unless gutsy is the only immune version
[07:34] <foxbuntu_vm> I bet the reason it just happened in hardy was the new video drivers added the DPMS option to your x-org
[07:35] <foxbuntu_vm> Tuv0k, sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[07:36] <foxbuntu_vm> in the monitor section, there is a line that will be something about DPMS
[07:36] <foxbuntu_vm> comment it out, restart x and try it out
[07:54] <Stemming78> buiding another Mythbox and need to now how to get if I can setup a box to receive upper cabe channes without a set top box.
[07:55] <Stemming78> Woud the HD5500 tuner card do this for me
[07:55] <foxbuntu_vm> Stemming78, you in the US?
[07:55] <Stemming78> yes
[07:55] <foxbuntu_vm> cant be done
[07:55] <Stemming78> Trying to get 100 and up channes
[07:56] <foxbuntu_vm> yeah, you hve to hve the cable co's box to tune those
[07:56] <Stemming78> so need to have a settop box for each tuner card
[07:56] <foxbuntu_vm> exactly
[07:56] <Stemming78> any coming change to this in the future
[07:57] <foxbuntu_vm> not likely
[07:57] <foxbuntu_vm> its a federal FCC issue
[07:58] <Stemming78> another question, if I am wanting to get HD....  Best choice is the HD Homerun
[07:58] <foxbuntu_vm> atm, yes
[07:58] <Stemming78> thans for the assistance.....  Now I can buid correcty
[07:58] <foxbuntu_vm> there is a new PVR HD tuner coming but the support level nd such is unknown, it might be awhile before it can be used
[07:59] <foxbuntu_vm> Stemming78, hve you not built a machine yet?
[07:59] <Stemming78> how about the Hauppauge HVR-1600
[07:59] <foxbuntu_vm> I mean are you going to buy new hardware?
[07:59] <foxbuntu_vm> Stemming78, that are allot of issues with that card
[08:00] <Stemming78> have two atm  buiding setup for my parents.....  thining two boxes
[08:00] <foxbuntu_vm> its not worth the $$ or pain
[08:00] <Stemming78> prefer interna cards.... but can hide it I suppose.....  Must say the pricing is dead on....
[08:00] <foxbuntu_vm> Stemming78, only reason I say anything is that I own a business selling prebuilt ready to use machines, and I am only a few weeks away from offering them from my website
[08:01] <foxbuntu_vm> I personally use an HDHR
[08:01] <foxbuntu_vm> I just park it behind the STB's in my entertainment center
[08:01] <Stemming78> thans...  there is a need for this....  good business venture....
[08:02] <foxbuntu_vm> yeah, its been a long time in the works
[08:02] <Stemming78> Father owns an accounting firm and is getting  PCs for free...  Ony need tuner card and video cards....
[08:02] <foxbuntu_vm> ah
[08:02] <Stemming78> cheap
[08:03] <foxbuntu_vm> well be careful with HD though, its very CPU intensive
[08:03] <Stemming78> With the HD HR  shoud tae the oad off
[08:03] <foxbuntu_vm> nope
[08:03] <foxbuntu_vm> the HDHR just streams to the backend
[08:04] <Stemming78> sorry "l" is not woring
[08:04] <Stemming78> boys fried a row of eys on my pricy eyboard
[08:04] <foxbuntu_vm> thats ok... my "a" hasnt been working well for me either :)
[08:04] <Stemming78> sucs
[08:04] <foxbuntu_vm> indeed
[08:05] <foxbuntu_vm> if your going to be doing HD I would say to stay north of a 3600+ X2 X86_64
[08:05] <foxbuntu_vm> or equiv intel
[08:05] <Stemming78> As for the HD HR ....  need to get another NIC card to get it functiona....  correct as it wi11 be hardwired system
[08:06] <Stemming78> any recommendations
[08:06] <foxbuntu_vm> no
[08:06] <foxbuntu_vm> the HDHR just wires to your home network
[08:06] <Stemming78> uses Cat45
[08:06] <foxbuntu_vm> Mythbuntu has the tools preloaded to auto discover the HDHR on your network
[08:06] <Stemming78> connection to PC is
[08:07] <Stemming78> that was a question
[08:07] <foxbuntu_vm> what?
[08:07] <foxbuntu_vm> oh does it use cat5?
[08:07] <foxbuntu_vm> yes
[08:07] <Stemming78> reword  what type of connection is used to attach to pc
[08:07] <Stemming78> very good       cat 5
[08:07] <foxbuntu_vm> the HDHR connects to your home network just like any PC
[08:08] <foxbuntu_vm> and then Mythbuntu will discover it
[08:08] <Stemming78> So I coud connect it to the router and not the PC
[08:08] <foxbuntu_vm> you should not connect it to the PC
[08:08] <Stemming78> Perfect
[08:08] <Stemming78> Then it is hidden
[08:09] <Stemming78> Thans for the assistance ....  a11 questions answered
[08:09] <foxbuntu_vm> cool...gl Stemming78
[08:09] <foxbuntu_vm> if you need parts or such in the future check out my site: www.foxmediasystems.com
[08:10] <foxbuntu_vm> I will be selling all the goodies including prebuilt systems
[08:11] <Stemming78> Wanted to et you now the new version of Mythbuntu is woring fauess for me....  had a probem with 7.10 and had to reboot each time I deeted a recording...  Probem was resoved with the new 8.04 reease....  great wor
[08:11] <Stemming78> Thans wi11 save the ur1
[08:11] <foxbuntu_vm> thanks
[08:11] <foxbuntu_vm> its good to see happy users
[08:12] <Stemming78> good uc with the venture....  Thin it wi be a succcess... especiay if you preoad Mythbuntu on it....  Might be good for the noobs...  I probaby woud have been VERY interested when U started
[08:13] <Stemming78> *I started....  STRUGGED
[08:13] <Stemming78> thans again off to bed....
[08:13] <foxbuntu_vm> thats what I am going for, bringing new users into the fold
[08:13] <foxbuntu_vm> np, later Stemming78
[08:14] <Stemming78> nice website.....  adios
[08:14] <foxbuntu_vm> thanks!
[16:02] <Stemming78> Can someone recommend a Wire1ess Card (PCI) for me...  Wire1ess G possib1e Draft N capabi1ities
[16:03] <Stemming78> Getting ready to purchase equipment for a new Mythbox
[16:08] <sabhain> making a combo front end / backend?
[16:21] <Stemming78> 1 PC wi11 have frontend and bacend....  2cond PC wi11 have frontend on1y
[17:00] <sabhain> arghh .. 7.10 desktop is really driving me nuts.
[17:03] <laga> what are you using 7.10 then..
[17:07]  * sabhain has it on his office laptop .. it's been stable .. so no hurry to upgrade (beta firefox not good yet) ..
[17:08] <sabhain> but in testing out some dd / optical disc backup stuff for my mythtv setup, I can't do anything with my laptop to help, since 7.10 won't install mencoder, or transcode .. so no k9copy .. ugh
[17:16] <jphillip> ddrescue works well
[17:36] <sabhain> command line backup?
[17:46] <sabhain> trying that now .. this would be EXACTLY what I've been fighting with .. looking to command line this process and do it via ssh on the core, rather than fighting the FE
[17:47] <jphillip> yep
[17:47] <jphillip> it can be a little slower since it will try to salvage bad data, but it gets the job done
[17:47] <jphillip> and works wonders on copy protected dvds :)
[18:58] <sabhain> jphillip is the man ..
[19:50] <connectedmico> hi guys.       can anyone help me out ?   what is the diference of the connector   a/v    and   RF
[19:58] <connectedmico> I don't know witch is witch
[20:08] <sabhain> RF is usually like Coax .. a/v could be anything, but it is probably RCA (Red & White for audio, Yellow for Video)
[20:10] <tgm4883_laptop> sabhain, also known as composite
[20:15] <sabhain> right ..
[20:40] <no-one> anyone there ?
[20:41] <connectedmico> tnks sab,
[20:41] <connectedmico> tnks sabhain
[20:45] <connectedmico> does anyone know a      Pinnacle PCTV Studio/Rave [card=39,autodetected]
[20:46] <laga> just ask a real question? ;)


[00:01] <ArtiShow> no i can't, because when i want to log in /register, it's the same page "sorry you dont have the permission"... beuno
[00:02] <Hellow> Any idea on why LP has been forking up errors left and right for a few days now?
[00:02] <ArtiShow> i don' t find the page where i can to log in ...
[00:02] <ArtiShow> possible !
[00:04] <ArtiShow> 5 days ago, i can't acces to shipit...now, i can't log in...^^
[00:05] <beuno> ArtiShow, try clearing your cookies
[00:06] <ArtiShow> you think ??
[00:09] <ArtiShow> i already request a cd but it's the first time i can't log in, i don' t think it's a opera cookies problem (sorry for my bad english language ^^)
[00:16] <ArtiShow> no idea...
[00:20] <MattJ> Launchpad down?
[00:21] <MattJ> Hmm
[00:21] <MattJ> Refresh worked
[00:22] <wgrant> MattJ: Was it a 'Please try again'?
[00:24] <MattJ> wgrant: Something about not being able to connect to a server
[00:24] <MattJ> and it said try again in a few minutes I think
[00:24] <wgrant> spm: ^^
[00:24] <spm> yeah i saw... ta
[00:25] <wgrant> Are we renaming Launchpad to Launchbounce as well, now?
[00:25] <mwhudson> codebounce has stopped bouncing, mostly!
[00:25] <lifeless> do the bounce bounce baby
[00:25] <mwhudson> i guess this is conservation of bouncyness, or something
[00:25] <wgrant> mwhudson: Heh.
[00:26] <wgrant> My main complaint about the new Loggerhead is that it won't even show a revision diff if there's only one file involved.
[00:26] <wgrant> I still have to expand it manually :(
[00:26] <spm> wgrant: "Are we renaming Launchpad to Launchbounce?" ask me this arvo...
[00:26] <mwhudson> wgrant: yeah, that's a bit cruddy
[00:27] <mwhudson> wgrant: file a bug, maybe
[00:27] <wgrant> mwhudson: Will do.
[00:27] <mwhudson> (on loggerhead)
[00:27] <wgrant> Of course.
[00:27] <mwhudson> i would like some way of computing how large a diff is going to be without having to compute it :)
[00:27] <mwhudson> (which is sadly impossible, i think)
[00:28] <wgrant> That would be nice, yes.
[00:29] <mwhudson> part of the motivation for the change to closed by default is not wanting to DOS the user's browser
[00:29] <mwhudson> but the 1 file case, at least, is probably safe
[00:30] <wgrant> Yep.
[00:30] <wgrant> For multiple files it's fine to have them closed by default.
[00:56] <wgrant> I wonder if the i386 virtual build queue is going to exceed 1000 builds today.
[00:57] <ripps> Holy S***.... 903 queued for i386
[00:57] <wgrant> Yep.
[00:57] <wgrant> This getting beyond stupid.
[00:58] <wgrant> What makes it worse is that there's no build success notification.
[00:59]  * wgrant wanders of to uni, thankful that he hasn't yet moved his production application archive to a PPA yet.
[01:04] <Hellow> Wtf is up with the LP server?
[01:04] <Hellow> (s)
[01:43] <kirkland> okay, i'd like to rename a project and a team in launchpad.  i understand that I need an admin to do this.  what's the process?
[01:45] <lifeless> spm: ^
[01:45] <spm> kirkland: raise a question against launchpad. https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/ is also to assist us with verifying that the person asking should be asking. if it's urgent, ping me back when done and I can make it so
[01:46] <lifeless> kirkland: in general though, ask a Question
[01:46] <kirkland> spm: lifeless: perfect, thanks.
[01:50] <kirkland> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/70094
[01:51] <kirkland> spm: it's not urgent, but it would be nice if it happened this week
[01:59] <spm> kirkland: so ... by this week you mean "next 20 minutes?" ;-)
[01:59] <kirkland> spm: :-)  no
[01:59] <kirkland> spm: by friday?
[02:02] <poolie> Hellow: lp is working for me... is it ok for you now?
[02:04] <spm> kirkland: you haven't, yet, used that team mailing list?
[02:05] <kirkland> spm: nope, it's empty
[02:05] <spm> cool - need to blow it away for a team reanme - or manually migrate (yuk - in case you were wondering)
[02:06] <kirkland> spm: nah, i don't really need the mailing list, and the archives are empty
[02:06] <kirkland> spm: gotcha
[02:09] <spm> kirkland: is done. note that PPA's don't migrate - I can rename the dir on germanium - or you can leave the old in situ, and create new. your call?
[02:09] <kirkland> spm: hmm, what do you recommend?
[02:09] <kirkland> spm: i think just leave it?
[02:10] <spm> I'd leave in situ and create new - tbh. as you're doing such a major name change. I've aliased the old project name, so folks should find the new. just update the new ppa location?
[02:10] <kirkland> spm: excellent, that sounds good
[03:23] <jmillikin> Is it possible to change the URL for a project? I can change the project's name, but that doesn't update the URL.
[03:29] <spm> jmillikin: Yes, but you personally can't do that. You need to submit a question requesting the change here: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/
[03:30] <jmillikin> spm: Thanks, will do.
[04:08] <all_is_fair> updates yesterday killed my networking and wireless networking... Any Ideas? Please respond with all_is_fair first
[04:08] <mwhudson> all_is_fair: wrong channel
[04:08] <all_is_fair> please send me to the right channel
[04:09] <all_is_fair> there are no users in the #ubuntu channel
[04:09] <all_is_fair> I don't get it
[04:10] <mwhudson> all_is_fair: i see about 1400 users in that channel
[04:10] <lifeless> the #ubuntu channel is the right place
[04:11] <all_is_fair> I'm like the only user when I enter that channel??
[04:11] <Snova> all_is_fair: See the topic.
[04:11] <mwhudson> all_is_fair: are you in there now?
[04:12] <Snova> Gah, never mind me.
[05:17] <persia> spm, Re: pkg-games vs. pkg-games-devel: what options are there towards merging.  I'm not sure I understand LP well enough to understand the nature of the issue.
[05:18] <spm> persia: basically we can't merge a person into a team. AIUI you want the final team to have both email addresses tho?
[05:19] <persia> Well, it's more that I want to concentrate branding in one place.  The "person" actually represents a team.
[05:19] <spm> heh. yeah I could see that - totally threw me when it oopsed :-)
[05:20] <persia> So, I want to be able to have group-type access to resources (e.g. PPA, branches), and also have that group have the "Maintained Packages" list.
[05:20] <persia> I'm not sure what options are available to do that.
[05:22] <spm> well the pkg-games team can have all that. ahh I see the problem: https://edge.launchpad.net/~pkg-games-devel/+related-software
[05:22] <persia> That's the obvious issue.  The other is "contact this user" on uploads.
[05:22]  * spm nods
[05:23] <persia> And there's a host of related social issues, but I think those two are the main ones specifically related to LP interface.
[05:25] <spm> hmm. I'll throw this to the LP dev list and see if they have any ideas. i suspect we'll need to do something like convert the 'person' into a team and then merge. But how, if even possible...
[05:26] <persia> I suspect it's part of a general class of issues: due to the way that "people" are imported, I suspect every Debian team has such a pseudo-user.
[05:26] <persia> As long as the team doesn't want to use PPAs for special awkward backports, or use a shared code repo, this doesn't matter.
[05:27] <persia> On the other hand, where the team is more closely integrated with Ubuntu, the semantics get odd.
[05:56] <maxb> Is there an admin here who would be able to rescore a PPA build for me?
[05:56] <maxb> It failed, so I fixed the dependency issue and asked for a retry, but that means the build score is zero
[05:56] <maxb> With the current contention for builders, it'll never manage to get to the top of the queue
[05:56] <maxb> https://launchpad.net/~mercurial-stable-snapshots/+archive/staging/+build/987742 is the build
[06:02] <jamesh> won't its score go up as it ages?
[06:03] <maxb> I don't think scores work like that
[06:05] <lifeless> how do you think they work ?
[06:09] <maxb> I think scores are assigned statically at build record creation time according to a formula involving component, pocket, urgency, etc. - and are reset to zero for a retried build
[06:10] <maxb> Hi, by the way :-)
[06:10] <maxb> We meet again, a long way from cygsetup :-)
[06:11] <lifeless> hi :)
[06:11] <lifeless> yup, the internet is a small small world
[06:11] <lifeless> I'm reasonably sure delay is factored in to prevent starvation
[06:11] <lifeless> I'm not quite sure that is implemented
[06:12] <kirkland> spm: hey again...  looks like http://launchpad.net/screen-profiles is redirecting properly, but not http://launchpad.net/~screen-profiles
[06:12] <kirkland> spm: is it possible to have the team one redirect to?
[06:12] <kirkland> too?
[06:13] <lifeless> maxb - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/1942654
[06:13] <lifeless> maxb - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/194265
[06:15] <maxb> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to learn from that bug?
[06:17] <lifeless> that you are suffering a common confusion
[06:17] <maxb> oh no, I'm not confused :-)
[06:18] <lifeless> IIRC the internals correctly the way it works is that score is a component in  the queueing process but not the only one
[06:18] <lifeless> that is, you don't need to rescore to ensure the build will happen
[06:18] <lifeless> only to make it happen faster
[06:18] <lifeless> anyhow, a sysadmin will be around in ~ 30 or so
[06:19] <maxb> My understanding based on observation is that the build will happen, but only after the queue is empty of builds with higher scores
[06:20] <lifeless> I don't think any soyuz devs are on right now
[06:20] <lifeless> or we could check ;)
[06:20] <maxb> My build isn't going anywhere, it can wait :-)
[06:42] <spm> kirkland: yeah - to the best of my knowledge and searching there is no team alias - or if there is, it's well hidden in the UI :-/
[07:01] <wgrant> maxb: The build score does increase over time, but the others do too. The point of the build score is to determine the ordering, so it would make sense that it only builds once those builds with higher scores have built.
[07:02] <wgrant> It's probably not optimal that a retry starts at 0, particularly as one can DoS the buildds equally well just by making lots of uploads.
[07:02] <wgrant> (that is, if they need any help to be DoSed, which they certainly don't at the moment)
[07:03] <maxb> Hmm. Is the time-based adjustment visible in the UI?
[07:03] <wgrant> Yes.
[07:04] <maxb> Oh. I seem to have only ever seen a small set of specific score numbers
[07:05] <wgrant> At least, it used to be... I haven't paid attention for a while.
[07:06] <maxb> Unless the time based factor is extreme, it's going to take ages for a zero-based retry to get up to the several thousand of a normal build
[07:06] <wgrant> Right.
[07:06] <wgrant> So in the current build queue climate, a retried build will probably never get built.
[07:07]  * maxb will continue to lurk and wait for an admin
[07:11] <savvas> I'd just leave it there, go to an all-night concert and come back :P
[07:12] <savvas> scores can be edited?
[07:13] <wgrant> By ~(launchpad-buildd-)admins, yes.
[07:14] <savvas> maxb: I suppose you already have, but why don't you ask on answers.l.n ? :)
[07:16] <jamesh> wgrant might also be able to edit them if he's discovered a vulnerability and not reported it
[07:17] <wgrant> jamesh: I've reported all of the vulnerabilities I've discovered, actually.
[07:17] <jamesh> thank you :)
[07:17] <wgrant> All except the one particularly ironic one was fixed pretty quickly.
[07:17] <wgrant> That one's still not fixed :(
[07:18] <wgrant> Although it's not close to the criticality of the others.
[07:18] <jamesh> I think the biggest security vulnerability I discovered in Launchpad was the librarian
[07:18] <savvas> so how is the build score formed? square root of what attributes? :)
[07:18] <jamesh> we fixed that by moving it to its own domain
[07:19] <wgrant> jamesh: Yes, that would have been a nasty one.
[07:19] <jamesh> iirc, the equivalent problem still exists in bugzilla
[07:19] <wgrant> savvas: A combination of pocket, component, archive, urgency, section (IIRC), and magic dust.
[07:20] <wgrant> I should probably go hunting for more vulnerabilities at some point, given my prior horrifying successes.
[07:21] <savvas> hm..
[07:22] <savvas> did anyone notice a wishlist bug to distribute the "all" architecture packages to be built on an available machine and not to wait for i386?
[07:22] <wgrant> savvas: Yes. But it wasn't well taken.
[07:22] <wgrant> But an alternative should be happening soon - pooling the i386, amd64 and lpia buildds.
[07:23] <wgrant> So each of those three archs will be able to build on three times as many machines.
[07:23] <wgrant> Which includes arch-indep builds.
[07:23] <savvas> ah ok
[07:24] <savvas> I suppose they replied in a similar way as in bug 350760 ?:P
[07:35] <maxb> jamesh: oh? I've always wondered why the librarian was on its own domain?
[07:36] <jamesh> maxb: it used to be on librarian.launchpad.net.  Your session cookie is sent to all https *.launchpad.net sites.
[07:36] <jamesh> you can upload text/html attachments for bugs to the librarian
[07:36] <jamesh> html documents can contain javascript that can read cookies
[07:36] <maxb> Oh!
[07:37] <jamesh> it's even worse for bugzilla, since the attachments get served from the same domain
[07:37] <jamesh> you can load up any form you want in an iframe read its DOM, make changes and submit
[07:38] <wgrant> Fortunately Bugzilla doesn't store private code, or have access to push code out to millions of machines.
[07:38] <jamesh> and there is nothing XSRF protection can do about it
[07:39] <jamesh> so you could e.g. write an attachment that searches for all security bugs the user has access to and subscribe a third party account to each.
[10:04] <maxb> Launchpad is the only website I primarily navigate by typing full URLs straight into my browser :-)
[10:04] <rowinggolfer_> lol, it's so much more than just a website though.
[10:06] <intellectronica> maxb: we're going to do quite a lot of work on improving navigation for v3.0 and even more after that
[10:06] <intellectronica> we know it's a bit painful right now. if you have suggestions on how to improve it, by all means, file bugs
[10:07] <zyga> hello
[10:07] <LarstiQ> intellectronica: actually, I'd like to navigate to bugs typing in a full url, but that is harder than I'd like.
[10:08] <intellectronica> LarstiQ: please exaplin
[10:08] <zyga> I just made a new hosted branch without a project name (so it ended up in +junk) and changed the project to something (bzr) a moment later. Now I have invisible, working branch at +junk and visible, unusable, empty branch at /bzr/; See: https://code.launchpad.net/~zkrynicki/bzr/bzr-logsearch and https://code.launchpad.net/~zkrynicki/+junk/bzr-logsearch
[10:09] <kiko> mwhudson, jml: shouldn't that change have been handled nicely?
[10:09] <LarstiQ> intellectronica: I'd like to have something akin to 'bugs.debian.org/12345'. I know there is a longer url that works for launchpad irregardless of the project a bug is under, but I always fail to get it right.
[10:10] <LarstiQ> intellectronica: ah, bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/
[10:10]  * LarstiQ tried +bug and +bugs first
[10:10] <intellectronica> LarstiQ: launchpad.net/bugs/12345
[10:10] <zyga> oh and I did push to /bzr/ using: bzr push lp:~zkrynicki/+junk/bzr-logsearch --use-existing-dir
[10:11] <LarstiQ> intellectronica: thanks!
[10:34] <crevette> hello
[10:35] <crevette> I've a small question, how it is computed the Build Score I see in my PPA about a build?
[10:35] <crevette> and what does it mean?
[10:35] <wgrant> This question is coming up a bit lately.
[10:35] <wgrant> Maybe cprov can give a real answer.
[10:36] <crevette> this is quite urgent, I have it for weeks, I just thought I could come here to see you and ask :)
[10:36] <crevette> +not quite urgent
[10:36] <crevette> :)
[10:36] <cprov> uhm, I'm preparing a description for that with mrevell, should be done soon, but I can explain that quickly.
[10:36] <wgrant> crevette: cprov said a while ago 'messy heuristic on the build archive (PPA, PRIMARY, PARTNER), source component, urgency and age in queue (basically)'
[10:36] <wgrant> Ah, here he is. even better.
[10:37] <mrevell> hey cprov, let's have a call about that today, if you have time
[10:37] <wgrant> Although the pocket is in there somewhere too.
[10:37] <cprov> mrevell: sure
[10:38] <cprov> wgrant: yes, pockets are prioritized in this order: SECURITY, UPDATES, RELEASE, BACKPORTS and PROPOSED.
[10:38] <cprov> wgrant: but that's about to change based on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/372491
[10:38] <wgrant> cprov: I just saw that you'd revealed that table in a bug.
[10:38] <crevette> I guess build score is a kind of priority to prioritize ubuntu build vs PPA ?
[10:38] <wgrant> Right, I read that bugmail about a minute ago.
[10:38] <wgrant> crevette: It's the number used to order the builds.
[10:38] <cprov> crevette: PPA and ubuntu builds are already isolated, since they build in different farms
[10:39] <cprov> crevette: it's used for prioritizing builds within those 2 domains
[10:39] <crevette> ahokay, I don't know the launchpad platform at all, I just use it as reporter and builder
[10:40] <wgrant> Ooh, London is awake, and today is Wednesday. Do we get buildds soon?
[10:40] <cprov> :)
[10:41] <cprov> hopefully yes,  the PPA build ETA is getting more and more embarrassing each day.
[10:41] <wgrant> And it has been 2.5 weeks.
[10:43] <crevette> wgrant, you said (PPA, PRIMARY, PARTNER) earlier, so it means canonical sells build time to companies ?
[10:43] <wgrant> crevette: I was quoting cprov, but: PPA is obvious, PRIMARY is the Ubuntu archive, and PARTNER is Canonical's partner archive (archive.canonical.com)
[10:44] <wgrant> But I'd imagine that Canonical partners can probably purchase private PPAs to use.
[10:44] <wgrant> I don't know, though.
[10:45] <cprov> wgrant: that's right, the support comes as a 'package', when you buy a P3A (storage, build time, privacy, etc)
[10:52] <wgrant> cprov: Is the build queue disaster going to happen again next release? I've been considering replacing the repository we use for deployments with a PPA, but 16+ hour build queue times make that a bit awkward.
[10:53] <cprov> wgrant: if we continue with the same number of builders, yes, it will happen again. But we are discussing how we can keep more builders working full time in PPA farm.
[10:54] <cprov> wgrant: so, it will not happen in the mid-term.
[10:54] <wgrant> cprov: OK, thanks.
[11:12] <maxb> intellectronica: I'm not actually sure whether my comment was a complaint about the navigation, or a compliment about the URL format :-)
[11:12] <maxb> To be fair, half the time, I don't actually have a launchpad page open in my browser at the time
[11:13] <maxb> And it's become habit to use the address bar whether I do or not!
[11:13] <wgrant> I don't think you can improve navigation for the Launchpad users who have learnt to use URLs.
[11:13] <wgrant> It's just so much more efficient.
[11:13] <intellectronica> maxb: yes, the URLs are really clean and logical. i do think the navigation links can be improved a lot
[11:14] <wgrant> I like SF.net's bug URLs.
[11:14] <intellectronica> wgrant: sounds like a very good benchmark to me!
[11:14] <maxb> I don't like SF.net :-) What does a SF.net bug url look like?
[11:14] <intellectronica> wgrant: i mean improving navigation for users already comfortable with the URLs, not matching SF's, which i don't like at all
[11:15] <wgrant> maxb: It has .php in it, and you need to put in the query string two numbers which you can't find anywhere except in those links.
[11:15] <wgrant> maxb: It's awful.
[11:15] <maxb> ah.... <sarcasm>like</sarcasm> :-)
[11:15] <wgrant> Yes.
[11:15] <wgrant> It's impossible to do better than Launchpad's bug URLs.
[11:17] <maxb> well... it's slightly unintuitive that bugs.launchpad.net/NUMBER doesn't work
[11:17] <wgrant> True.
[11:17] <wgrant> But I just launchpad.net/bugs/NUMBER, which is the same number of characters.
[11:18] <maxb> Sure. And it makes perfect sense that bugs.launchpad.net/NUMBER doesn't work, once you've started to see the design shining through
[11:18] <wgrant> Well, I actually just say 'bug 1234' and the template bookmark picks it up.
[11:18] <maxb> after all, there's no launchpad entity called NUMBER
[11:18] <intellectronica> maxb: what lots of people do is define a url template in firefox for bugs
[11:18] <wgrant> Right.
[11:19] <intellectronica> heh
[11:19] <wgrant> Poor bug 1234 gets such abuse on staging.
[11:22] <maxb> What is a firefox url template?
[11:22] <wgrant> maxb: You can define a bookmark, give it a name, and put a %s somewhere in the URL.
[11:22] <wgrant> You then type '<name> <somestring>', and it will call that bookmark replacing the %s with the argument.
[11:24] <wgrant> s/name/keyword/
[11:26] <maxb> Thats... amazingly useful
[11:27] <maxb> and completely unintuitive :-)
[11:27] <wgrant> Yep.
[11:29] <wgrant> They seem to be formally called "keyword bookmarks"
[11:32]  * wgrant plots nasty questions for deryck's first CHR day.
[11:32] <deryck> hello, all.  I'm community help for the day, but it's my first day at community help. :)
[11:33] <elmo> deryck: the first rule of CHR is: ignore wgrant.  the second rule of CHR is: ignore wgrant.
[11:33] <mrevell> haha, harsh elmo :)
[11:33] <elmo> he started it :-P
[11:33] <elmo> (and he knows I'm joking)
[11:34] <wgrant> That I do!
[11:34]  * deryck notes the rules
[11:35] <wgrant> elmo: Although a year ago you would probably have been quite serious.
[11:42] <rowinggolfer_> deryck: good luck!
[11:42] <deryck> thanks rowinggolfer_!
[12:30] <ripps> OMG! Additional servers!
[12:35] <wgrant> Including one I've never seen before.
[12:37] <wgrant> Although it was around for a few days before they were all stolen, it seems.
[12:40] <ia> hello. i've tried to upload in ppa package with new upstream version, but i've got error (File <UPLOADED_FILE> already exists in <LOCATION>...); i've read https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors and it says, that "This mean you have uploaded a file that already exists in the pointed 'LOCATION'", but - in my ppa (which i points) there is no orig.tar.gz for new upstream version, which i try to upload. I will be very appreciate for any ideas or clues ab
[12:40] <ia> out this.
[12:41] <ripps> ia: try using dput with the -f flag
[12:43] <wgrant> ia: Is that in the email you get back, or on the commandline?
[12:43] <ia> wgrant: in email
[12:43] <wgrant> ia: OK, so ripps' isn't the solution... hmm. Can you give the actual error message, and the URL to your PPA?
[12:44] <ripps> Yeah, I get that email when I botch an upload. If a build hasn't been attempted yet, than dput -f usually works
[12:44] <wgrant> That's a rejection message, so there won't be a build for it.
[12:45] <ripps> wgrant: I ge that email when I upload a package with debuild -s -sd with making an upload with debuild -S -sa. It's expecting an orig.tar.
[12:45] <ripps> ^without
[12:47] <ripps> The solutin: debuild -S -sa && dput -f <LOCATION>
[12:48] <wgrant> ripps: You shouldn't get that message. You should get something like the opposite of it.
[12:48] <LarstiQ> ripps, wgrant: where did you notice the new servers?
[12:49] <wgrant> ia: Which is your PPA, and what was the exact text of the message?
[12:49] <ripps> https://edge.launchpad.net/builders
[12:49] <wgrant> LarstiQ: Buildds, at https://launchpad.net/builders
[12:49] <ripps> woot! 7 i386 builders now
[12:49] <wgrant> Blah, 5 last time I looked.
[12:49] <LarstiQ> ah, and you knew the makeup before :)
[12:51] <wgrant> Well, there's no longer woefully few.
[12:51] <wgrant> So it's pretty obvious.
[12:51] <ia> wgrant: well, look. here my ppa for git stuff - https://launchpad.net/~iaz/+archive/git ; look at package gitg - gtk frontend for git commands. in my ppa - only 0.0.1 version (and there is orig.tar.gz only for this version). so, i've tried to upload new upstream version - 0.0.3, and i get error via email - "File gitg_0.0.3.orig.tar.gz already exists in Primary Archive for Ubuntu, but uploaded version has different contents."
[12:51] <LarstiQ> wgrant: I hadn't seen that page before.
[12:51] <wgrant> ia: The Primary Archive is the real Ubuntu archive.
[12:51] <wgrant> LarstiQ: It is well hidden.
[12:52] <ia> wgrant: oh, i see - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gitg :-)
[12:52]  * VK7HSE I too could do with a little more training in this field! as I've struck this a few times :-/
[12:52] <wgrant> cprov: I know PPAs are meant to look up the orig.tar.gz in the PRIMARY archive if it's missing, but should it really reject because a different one was uploaded?
[12:53] <cprov> wgrant: yes, otherwise the lookup will not work as expected in the next attempt.
[12:53] <wgrant> cprov: Mmmm, true.
[12:54] <wgrant> ia: So, yes, you should probably just use the Ubuntu one.
[12:54] <wgrant> ia: And work out how you managed to get the same file with a different hash.
[12:54] <ripps> typically when I'm building an upstream source package, I use the vcs version in the orig.tar and changelog. (0.18.1+git090504), the package is called package_0.18.1+git090504 and the orig.tar is a called package_0.18.1+git090504.orig.tar.gz
[12:54] <cprov> wgrant: it's almost always caused by re-compressing it (gzip has timestamps in its header)
[12:54] <wgrant> ripps: If it's a VCS snapshot, sure.
[12:55] <wgrant> cprov: I'm aware, but I wonder why that would have been recompressed.
[12:55] <wgrant> Unless it was a bz2 to start with, which some upstreams unfortunately do.
[12:55] <cprov> wgrant: righto
[12:58] <ripps> Woot! 9 i386
[13:00] <wgrant> sandpaperfig went away :(
[13:00] <wgrant> Super-cprov will need to rescue those poor trapped builds :(
[13:02] <wgrant> Back to 7 i386...
[13:02] <wgrant> Maybe they're just teasing us.
[13:03] <ripps> We're gonna need 15 if we're gonna burn through all ~900 packages in a decent amount of time
[13:05] <wgrant> And down to 6.
[13:13] <wgrant> 4!
[13:13] <cprov> wgrant: down to 4,
[13:13] <wgrant> They were just teasing.
[13:13] <wgrant> Nice timing.
[13:14] <cprov> wgrant: I don't know what's going on, but they will eventually settle.
[13:14] <cprov> wgrant: they become immediately available, I don't have to do anything.
[13:15] <wgrant> cprov: Oh, right, that automatic rescuing code landed last cycle?
[13:15] <cprov> wgrant: yes, the code for rescuing jobs assigned to unavailable builders ...
[13:15] <wgrant> Hm, no, sandpaperfig retains a build although it has been deactivated for at least 15 minutes.
[13:16] <cprov> wgrant: builders from ubuntu-enablements become available by a external mechanism.
[13:18] <wgrant> cprov: I said that you would have to rescue the trapped builds, not the builders.
[13:19] <cprov> oh, right, but even that isn't working 100 %, see sandpaperfig ...
[13:20] <wgrant> cprov: Right. I initially forgot that code had landed, then remembered, but then noticed that it wasn't working. That rapid set of realisations confused things.
[13:24] <cprov> wgrant: it doesn't work when builders are in "manual"
[13:24] <wgrant> cprov: Ahh.
[13:24] <wgrant> I was wondering why it wasn't showing up as deactivated.
[13:24] <cprov> wgrant: but the fact is that after this code change builders don't need to be put in manual before going anymore
[13:25] <wgrant> The status doesn't seem to be shown anywhere any more.
[13:25] <wgrant> Right.
[13:28] <maxb> What does "enablement" mean, anyway?
[13:29] <wgrant> Saturating bandwidth, by the sound of things...
[13:29] <wgrant> Or just trying to fit in an inappropriately marketing-like word.
[13:33] <wgrant> So, the buildds do seem to have at least settled now. To just two more than previously, though, with one of them being on the architecture that wasn't actually problematic.
[13:41] <maxb> Hmm. Well, it's shaved a couple of hours off my estimated time-to-build, but that's not going to empty the queue any time soon
[13:41] <wgrant> No, the queue is still getting deeper.
[13:42] <MaWaLe> hi all : haw can i make LP identify me automatically with bzr
[13:43]  * wgrant pokes deryck
[13:45] <deryck> MaWaLe, take a look at `bzr help launchpad` or `bzr help launchpad-login`
[13:46] <MaWaLe> deryck: thx for your reply : i'll see where? google or LP Help?
[13:47] <deryck> MaWaLe, run that via a command line to read the bzr help info on those topics.
[13:48] <deryck> MaWaLe, but basically, running this for me -- bzr launchpad-login deryck -- will tell bzr about me on launchpad, where deryck is my user id on launchpad.
[13:48] <deryck> MaWaLe, is that what you are asking, how to use bzr with your lp login?
[13:49] <MaWaLe> deryck: i want to know how to make LP handle my commitment with bzr
[13:49] <MaWaLe> sorry for my poor english
[13:50] <MaWaLe> i explain :
[13:50] <MaWaLe> i want to make bzr connect to LP with my LP account to make it handle my karma :)
[13:51] <deryck> MaWaLe, so you want to push your bzr branches to lp?
[13:51] <MaWaLe> yup :)
[13:52] <wgrant> MaWaLe: Or do you want to set the name on your commits, so that LP knows it's you?
[13:52] <deryck> MaWaLe, see https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch.
[13:52] <MaWaLe> wgrant: you've got it ;)
[13:53] <wgrant> MaWaLe: bzr whoami "Your Name<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[13:53] <wgrant> The critical bit is the email address - that has to match one of yours on Launchpad, or you won't get the karma or other attribution.
[13:53] <MaWaLe> i made it but it didn't affect my karma?
[13:53] <wgrant> The name doesn't really matter.
[13:53] <wgrant> Right, it will only affect commits made after you've set it.
[13:54] <wgrant> Only the new revisions will use that as their commiter.
[13:55] <MaWaLe> thx guys
[13:56] <MaWaLe> there isn't a way to have LP offline on a test machine to practice oflline?
[13:57] <wgrant> MaWaLe: You don't need LP to use bzr.
[13:58] <MaWaLe> i know wgrant
[13:58] <MaWaLe> in fact i'm a member of the Tunsian LoCo Team
[13:58] <MaWaLe> and we will reorganize our LP pages and affiliations
[13:59] <MaWaLe> so i want to manage a complete tutorial for our community and maybe have an offline test machine for practicing
[13:59] <wgrant> MaWaLe: In that case, try staging.launchpad.net - it uses a copy of the normal database that is overwritten every night, so it's safe to play around on. It also doesn't send email, so you can try things without spamming people.
[14:00] <MaWaLe> wgrant: when i try it on some page it didn't have the same effect as the real one
[14:00] <MaWaLe> commitment between team and projects didn't always have the same effect
[14:00] <MaWaLe> i don't know if i'am explaining clearly my thoughts
[14:01] <wgrant> MaWaLe: Everything except email should be just the same on staging.
[14:01] <wgrant> But I don't quite understand what you mean, right.
[14:01] <MaWaLe> there isn't a fr channel for LP :p
[14:04] <MaWaLe> bzr help launchpad
[14:27] <MaWaLe> how to make bzr automatically sign all my commitment to LP?
[14:28] <rowinggolfer_> bzr whoami "your name<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:28] <rowinggolfer_> IIRC
[14:30] <MaWaLe> rowinggolfer_: thx wgrant showed me that
[14:30] <MaWaLe> but i'm asking for pgp signing of the commitment
[14:30] <rowinggolfer_> oh, sorry.
[14:30] <intellectronica> rowinggolfer_, MaWaLe: no, that just sets your email. if you want to sign all your commits you have to add `check_signatures = require` to your configuration, iirc
[14:31] <MaWaLe> so intellectronica, what should i do?
[14:32] <intellectronica> MaWaLe: add `check_signatures = require` to your configuration, like i said above ;)
[14:33] <MaWaLe> intellectronica: thx i see it :)
[14:34] <MaWaLe> intellectronica: and which file may i edit to add this directive?
[14:35] <intellectronica> MaWaLe: either bazaar.conf or locations.conf, depending on whether you want to set it globally or only for some locations
[14:35] <MaWaLe> intellectronica: globally
[14:37] <intellectronica> MaWaLe: so, bazaar.conf
[14:37] <MaWaLe> thx intellectronica
[14:37] <intellectronica> MaWaLe: a lot of this information is readily available in the bazaar documentation. you should have a look. there are many really nice configuration options
[14:38] <MaWaLe> intellectronica: there isn't a french complete documentation for managing bzr with LP?
[14:38] <MaWaLe> i'm more efficient with french :)
[14:39] <intellectronica> j'ne sais pas
[14:39] <rowinggolfer_> zut alors
[14:39] <MaWaLe> intellectronica: so you speak french :p
[14:39] <MaWaLe> rowinggolfer_: you too :d
[14:39] <intellectronica> MaWaLe: not really. i _studied_ french in school, many years ago. there's a huge difference between studying a language and actually speaking it
[14:40]  * rowinggolfer_ failed french twice :(
[14:40] <rowinggolfer_> MaWaLe: ever heard French spoken with a Manchester accent?
[14:40] <MaWaLe> i've got it :) for me i'm trying to improve my english as well as i can :)
[14:40] <MaWaLe> rowinggolfer_: yup :d
[14:42] <intellectronica> MaWaLe: reading technical manuals is a great way to improve your english ;)
[14:42] <intellectronica> (i'm saying that from experience)
[14:43] <MaWaLe> intellectronica: i know but not when you haven't much time
[17:01] <ripps> 13 i386 builders, now that's what I'm talking about
[17:10] <ripps> 17!
[17:11] <mtaylor> I've got a bug that I'm not sure if it's a bzr bug or a launchpad bug...
[17:11] <beuno> mtaylor, what's the problem?
[17:12] <mtaylor> the break-lock "helpful" info spits out lp internals locations
[17:12] <mtaylor> beuno: like, If you're sure that it's not being modified, use bzr break-lock lp-140464987345808:///~drizzle-developers/drizzle/development/.bzr/branch/lock
[17:12] <mtaylor> which, of course, doesn't work
[17:12] <beuno> yeah, that's a LP but
[17:12] <beuno> mwhudson knows all about it
[17:12] <mtaylor> mwhudson: poke. poke
[17:12] <LarstiQ> it's a bzr bug
[17:12] <mtaylor> haha
[17:12] <beuno> he's asleep
[17:13] <beuno> LarstiQ, hi  :)
[17:13] <LarstiQ> bug #250451 to be precise
[17:14] <LarstiQ> mtaylor, beuno: last-but-one comment, spiv describes the three-pronged problem clearly.
[17:14] <mtaylor> bugs should list people by IRC nick
[17:14] <beuno> LarstiQ, ah. I thought it was because of the way LP exposed the paths
[17:15] <LarstiQ> beuno: no, as mwhudson had remarked earlier on, and spiv gives a nice recipe for, it happens with pure bzr too.
[17:15] <mtaylor> mmm. good write up
[17:16] <beuno> ah
[17:16]  * beuno should actually read
[17:16] <LarstiQ> the first thing that should be done I guess is to stop the locking code to print to stdout by itself.
[17:17]  * LarstiQ off to the supermarket
[17:17] <LarstiQ> beuno: I'd like to fix it, but I know how I am with time and taking too much on my back. I do think the problem is sufficiently analysed someone can now go and implement it.
[17:19] <ahe> i just want to build some metapackages and uploaded my first package to my ppa yesterday
[17:19] <ahe> i used the guide at http://scubuntu.meraka.org.za/wiki/PPAIntro but now the build failed because there is no makefile in the fake source directory
[17:20] <ahe> i could create a dummy makefile and try again but is this the official way to build metapackages?
[17:33] <rockstar> statik, hey.
[17:51] <bdmurray> The privacy / public new UI doesn't always work for me.  Sometimes I uncheck private and it doesn't always update.
[17:54] <kiko> bdmurray, when it doesn't what happens? nothing?
[17:54] <kiko> intellectronica: ^^
[17:54] <bdmurray> kiko: yeah, the bug still stays private
[17:55] <intellectronica> bdmurray: can you reproduce this reliably, or mention a but you recently had a problem with?
[17:55] <intellectronica> bdmurray: also, are you sure it's still private, and not just the page not updating after the action completes?
[17:55] <bdmurray> intellectronica: no, it happens something like 1 in 10 times
[17:55] <bdmurray> intellectronica: yes, as after reloading it was still private
[17:56] <intellectronica> bdmurray: did you observe any browser errors?
[17:56] <bdmurray> intellectronica: how?
[17:57] <intellectronica> bdmurray: in firefox you'd see them in the bottom-right corner. it's different for other browsers
[17:57] <intellectronica> noodles775: any ideas? ^^^^^
[17:57] <bdmurray> intellectronica: no, but I'll keep an eye out
[17:57] <bdmurray> intellectronica: is there any debugging information I can gather somehow?
[17:57] <intellectronica> bdmurray: also, does it appear like it completed successfully? the spinner stops spinning and you see a green flash?
[17:58] <bdmurray> intellectronica: Yes, I believe so but will watch more closely
[17:58] <intellectronica> noodles775: unping, i meant abel, of course
[17:58] <intellectronica> bdmurray: finally, care to file a bug? i'll also try to reproduce
[17:59] <bdmurray> intellectronica: of course
[17:59] <intellectronica> bdmurray: cool, thanks
[18:26] <statik> hi rockstar
[18:29] <rockstar> statik, I sent you a mail. since you seemed to be away at the time.
[18:29] <statik> cool
[19:00] <ablert> hello, I'm attempting to make and upload a package to my ppa
[19:00] <ablert> and i get an email with this: PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket.
[19:02] <ablert> I'm attempting to follow the instructions at: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Uploading to upload an slightly altered postgresql
[19:05] <james_w> ablert: do you have jaunty-proposed or something in the top line of your changelog?
[19:05] <james_w> it should just be "jaunty"
[19:06] <ablert> ah - I think I see the issue - it's hardy security, but of course it should just be hardy
[19:06] <ablert> I will try that. thank you
[19:18] <aboudreault> hi
[19:18] <aboudreault> with a PPA..... do we have a stable/unstable/testing component ?
[19:18] <tsimpson> no, only the ubuntu releases (currently)
[19:19] <aboudreault> :(
[19:20] <tsimpson> Debian PPA support is planned, don't know when though
[19:21] <aboudreault> So, there is no other way to have a "unstable" component than creating another launchpad-group ?
[19:22] <tsimpson> you can have multiple PPAs per person/group
[19:23] <aboudreault> ha
[19:24] <aboudreault> then , that's what i'm looking for. thanks
[20:23] <blizzkid> lo all. Would it be possible to merge 2 LP acounts?
[20:25] <beuno> blizzkid, yes
[20:26] <beuno> which ones are they?
[20:26] <blizzkid> beuno: blizzkid and mcielen, I'd like to keep the mcielen one
[20:26] <blizzkid> btw, will karma be added too? :p :p
[20:27] <beuno> blizzkid, probably not  :)
[20:27] <beuno> kiko, can you merge to active accounts?  ^
[20:27] <beuno> flacoste, ^
[20:27] <kiko> yes
[20:27] <kiko> he can too
[20:28] <flacoste> kiko: i can't
[20:29] <kiko> no
[20:29] <kiko> I mean blizzkid can too
[20:29] <blizzkid> kiko: I can?
[20:29] <kiko> sure you can -- if you have both emails
[20:30] <blizzkid> yeah, I have
[20:31] <blizzkid> kiko: enlighten me :)
[20:31] <kiko> blizzkid, visit /people
[20:31] <kiko> and there's a link there
[20:33] <blizzkid> ok, I'll have a look
[20:33] <blizzkid> thx
[20:34] <blizzkid> btw, wazzup with LP atm?
[20:40] <crack05> !status
[20:40] <crack05> !help
[20:41] <beuno> crack05, what can we help you with?
[20:41] <crack05> the site is currintly off ?
[20:41] <blizzkid> crack05: just try refreshing a few times
[20:41] <beuno> nope, it's on
[20:41] <blizzkid> beuno: it's "stuttering" atm
[20:42] <Snova> Seems to be working for me... well, I can see the title at any rate. Too slow to see much more yet.
[20:42] <crack05> thanks
[20:42] <blizzkid> Snova: it's really stuttering, I got "please try again later" a few times
[20:42] <blizzkid> refreshed and was ok
[20:42] <hggdh> quite some stuttering. I am getting "sorry there was a problem, etc, etc" rather frequently. And no, I am not on edge
[20:42] <blizzkid> then again
[20:43] <crack05> its working :))
[20:43] <crack05> thanks friends
[20:43] <iGadget> hi
[20:43] <iGadget> I keep getting messages that I should come here to check the latest status on launchpad (it's been refusing to serve me ;) ...)
[20:44] <beuno> iGadget, we're working hard to solve it
[20:44] <iGadget> allrighty, thanks
[20:44] <iGadget> good luck then, I'll stop disturbing you in fixing it :)
[20:45] <savvas> awesome, i386 is finally available :)
[20:46] <savvas> in ppa builds I mean :P
[20:48] <Hellow> lol: "They finally released i386!" :P
[20:51] <shortname> /nick shortname_
[20:54] <Snova> bug 360846
[20:57] <Snova> Now if only it would load...
[20:58] <savvas> works here
[20:59] <savvas> ah I'm on edge, https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/360846/+text
[20:59] <Snova> Well, it's also partly my connection, but I know it's not that bad.
[20:59] <Snova> Ah, I'll try that.
[20:59] <beuno> Snova, join the beta testers team!
[20:59] <Snova> Yay, here we go.
[20:59] <beuno> https://edge.launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers
[21:08] <bdmurray> intellectronica: its bug 372883
[21:35] <kiko> bdmurray, any additional information on that one?
[21:36] <bdmurray> kiko: more than I put in? no
[21:37] <ablert> so i've made what I think are correct changes in order to compile my package, and it uploads appropriately, but the builds fail and I'm not entirely sure where to start looking for the problem
[21:38] <kiko> bdmurray, thanks man
[21:42] <ablert> is there an easy way to use debuild to also try to build everything locally before I attempt to upload?
[21:43] <bdmurray> ablert: have you looked at the build logs?
[21:45] <ablert> hrm, it could be that a regression test failed -- looking into it. Thanks :) Can I do that easily locally before trying to upload?
[21:45] <bdmurray> the build logs are available on launchpad
[21:45] <ablert> *nod* http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26408195/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.postgresql-8.3_8.3.7-0ubuntu8.04.1-curvedental~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[21:45] <ablert> I have those, it just might be faster to find out locally before having to force launchpad to deal with it
[22:20] <wgrant> Wow, the i386 virtual buildds have already finished the backlog!
[22:31] <cprov> wgrant: how cool is that, huh ?
[22:34] <ripps> Are we going to keep these servers? Somehow I doubt it.
[22:35] <wgrant> ripps: Hopefully until the next release...
[22:38] <elmo> well
[22:39] <elmo> they get borrowed from time to time
[22:39] <elmo> but rarely all at once
[22:39] <elmo> well, never all at once
[22:39] <wgrant> Except at release.
[22:39] <elmo> there's always 3 x $arch that are permanent
[22:39] <wgrant> Ah, right.
[22:40] <elmo> and next release we'll a) definitely be able to get them back faster, b) may not steal all of them
[22:40] <elmo> FWIW
[22:40] <wgrant> I was expecting that they would come back gradually.
[22:47] <intellectronica> bdmurray: cheers
[22:48] <elmo> wgrant: it was a gradual process, but we had some issues with the 'make PPA' script that made it appear a lot more 'all at once' than it actually was
[22:49] <wgrant> elmo: I meant gradually over the past two weeks, not 12 hours.
[22:49] <wgrant> Or were they back, but manual?
[22:52] <elmo> oh, right, no, they all came back today
[22:52] <wgrant> I presume the load graph doesn't actually just drop off 1 day short of 2 weeks after release.
[22:54] <elmo> wgrant: in terms of needing a bazillion machiens to handle it, it does drop off surprisingly fast
[22:54] <wgrant> elmo: Huh, OK.
[23:43] <aboudreault> emm.... i'm looking for the help page about launchpad version control service available
[23:43] <beuno> aboudreault, take a look at this: https://help.launchpad.net/BzrHowto
[23:44] <dtchen> anyhow, /win 26
[23:44] <dtchen> sorry!
[23:45] <aboudreault> beuno: thanks


[00:25] <_amanica_> were we supposed to stop using bundle-buggy already?
[00:26] <_amanica_> nevermind, I need to sleep now. will ask again another time..
[02:04] <brucekg> LUSERS
[02:04] <brucekg> been a long time since I last used irc..  anyone here that might be able to answer a bazaar question?
[02:04] <bob2> ...
[02:07] <brucekg> I am trying to set up repository with multiple projects and traditional trunk, branches, tags, etc..  Documewntation has left me guessing twixt no-trees and conmtainers
[07:04] <poolie> hello igc?
[10:08] <awilcox> Is it possible to change an author name on old bzr revisions?
[10:08] <awilcox> Like say one of my team members got married, and she wants her married name on her old bzr revisions.
[10:08] <awilcox> How would I go about doing that?
[10:09] <Kinnison> Was she married when she made those commits?
[10:09] <awilcox> Is that a no?
[10:09] <Kinnison> It's not.
[10:10] <Kinnison> There are ways, but if anyone has done anything based on those revs (incl. merges etc) then it'll be a total and complete arse
[10:10] <Kinnison> And basically involves replaying history
[10:10] <Kinnison> IIRC
[10:10] <awilcox> They haven't.
[10:10] <awilcox> It's just commits in trunk
[10:10] <Kinnison> And noone else has committed after her commits which need changing?
[10:10] <awilcox> Uhhhhhhhhh
[10:10] <awilcox> She committed r77
[10:10] <awilcox> We're pushing 700 >_<
[10:11] <Kinnison> Then there's stuff "based" on the commits
[10:11] <Kinnison> Social problem.
[10:11] <Kinnison> She needs to understand that the past is the past.
[10:11] <awilcox> Well uhhh
[10:11] <Kinnison> Same as I cope with the fact that some of the early commits in one project I never thought I'd publish have change comments like "feh, moosed."
[10:11] <awilcox> She doesn't like her old last name for reasons I can't disclose on channel ._.
[10:11] <awilcox> There's no way to change it?
[10:11] <Kinnison> Not without replaying history entirely IIRC
[10:12] <Kinnison> and that'll break any in-flight branches you might have, or any of your users might have
[10:12] <awilcox> So I can just set my clock back to 2006 and redo it all? >_>
[10:12] <awilcox> If we have users that would be news to me
[10:12] <Kinnison> Is she wanting you to fix all the backups to not contain her old name too?
[10:13] <awilcox> Backups?
[10:13] <awilcox> Those get erased after they're old
[10:13] <awilcox> Because bzr is incremental and includes all of history
[10:13] <Kinnison> It truly sounds like she should just stop worrying, names are hardly a critical thing.
[10:13] <awilcox> Maybe there's two backups?
[10:13] <Kinnison> awilcox: Now, if only it were possible to *guarantee* that nothing else will corrupt historical data
[10:56] <AnAnt> Hello, can I use bzr to maintain a package that I've merge from Ubuntu ?
[10:57] <Peng_> Yes?
[10:58] <AnAnt> it's gnome-games,
[11:28] <AnAnt> I did bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-games/ubuntu
[11:28] <AnAnt> then changed in the packaging
[11:29] <AnAnt> so, if I do bzr push <some other repository>
[11:29] <AnAnt> how can I maintain the diff for following versions ?
[11:30] <AnAnt> just do bzr pull lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-games/ubuntu for every new version or what ?
[12:25] <Peng_> AnAnt: If you've committed new revisions, you'd have to use "bzr merge", but sure.
[12:25] <Peng_> AnAnt: I don't know the best practices for packaging branches, though,
[13:10] <scfe> How can I run the bazaar unit test suite?
[13:11] <luks> bzr selftest
[13:12] <luks> (and then go make lunch or something :))
[13:15] <scfe> luks: How long does a test suite run normally take? I see that bzr has more than 19000 tests.
[13:16] <luks> I don't remember
[13:16] <luks> I used to be more than 30 minutes, but that was over a year ago
[13:17] <scfe> is there a possibility to run only some tests? bzr selftest <filename> or something like that?
[13:17] <luks> bzr selftest test_name_pattern
[13:17] <luks> there is also an option to run only a specific module
[13:17] <luks> see bzr help selftest
[13:18] <scfe> luks: Thanks :-) (running the self-test after every generation of a new RPM packages seems to be a good way to ensure everything is still working)
[13:19] <luks> not sure if the maintainers of the build machines will be happy about it :)
[13:19] <scfe> luks: Probably I have to ask - given the current rate the full run will take ~ 1 1/2 hours...
[14:12] <gioele> hello
[14:12] <gioele> what is the intended purpose of bzr nick?
[14:12] <jelmer> hi
[14:17] <scfe> What is the expected key id for the signature of the bzr release tarballs? They seem to be signed by Robert Tanner but this is not mentioned in the installation FAQ..
[14:18] <LarstiQ> scfe: signed by the RM, which differs per release.
[14:18] <scfe> LarstiQ: But the InstallationFAQ does not mention the release manager for 1.14/1.15
[14:19] <scfe> so who is the release manager for 1.14/1.15?
[14:20] <jelmer> gioele: it's a nick name for a particular branch, e.g. "trunk", "fix-bug-42342", "jelmer", etc
[14:20] <LarstiQ> scfe: 1.14 was Bob Tanner, 1.15 I haven't paid attention to
[14:21] <LarstiQ> scfe: note that http://bazaar-vcs.org/InstallationFaq hasn't been updated since 0.13
[14:22]  * LarstiQ doesn't know if they're mentioned somewhere else
[14:23] <gioele> jelmer: I knew that. I just found the real use: nick are preserved no matter what arguments you use to clone a branch. A renamed dir keeps the original nick (unless set again after the clone)
[14:24] <LarstiQ> gioele: right. It's more that in absence of an explicit nick it defaults to the basename of the branch root.
[14:29] <scfe> LarstiQ: looks like. However I found a ml post (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2009q1/055151.html) for his nomination. And obviously he signed the 1.14 which ubuntu ships so I guess key id 0x0DDBE378 should be okay.
[14:32] <gioele> OK, I've added another term to CategoryTerm: http://bazaar-vcs.org/Nick
[14:33] <LarstiQ> scfe: if, given a released version, you want to know who the RM was, it's easier to check the -announce list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar-announce/
[14:33] <LarstiQ> scfe: the release announcement will be made by the RM
[14:34] <LarstiQ> now Bob includes his gpg fingerprint in his mails *checks to see if other RMs mention the signature*
[14:35] <LarstiQ> seems not
[14:37] <LarstiQ> scfe: bzr/doc/developers/release.txt mentions to upload and link the sig from http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download , would also stating it to be explicitly mentioned in the announcement help your use case?
[14:39] <scfe> LarstiQ: I needed to ensure that the signature is legitimate. Mentioning key id and/or checksums would definitely help (from a distro perspective you can't be paranoid enough ;-)
[14:40] <LarstiQ> scfe: well, they're mentioned next to the release itself on http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download
[14:41] <LarstiQ> someone could potentially change that, but they could also send mail
[14:41] <LarstiQ> scfe: so I'm wondering which source you're willing to trust :)
[14:41] <scfe> On that page I only fig the sig. But how can I verify that the key used for the sig is legitimate? (e.g. someone hacked the server and put his own binaries/sigs there)
[14:41]  * LarstiQ nods
[14:41] <LarstiQ> scfe: yes, how do you?
[14:41] <scfe> LarstiQ: A release announcement on a mailing list which is mirrored by many web sites mentioning the key should be okay.
[14:42] <LarstiQ> scfe: ok, then lets include that in the release policy.
[14:42] <scfe> LarstiQ: Thanks :-)
[14:58] <Tak> does it ever make sense to update an unbound branch, or to pull a bound branch?
[14:59] <servilio> jelmer: hi!
[14:59] <servilio> jelmer: just saw you the script didn't reproduce the bug for you
[15:00] <LarstiQ> Tak: yes.
[15:01] <LarstiQ> Tak: firstly, update makes sense in a working tree context. Now consider from remote `bzr push host/unbound`. The working tree will now be out of date wrt its branch.
[15:01] <LarstiQ> Tak: hence the push-and-update plugin
[15:01] <LarstiQ> Tak: pulling in a bound branch will pull to it's master.
[15:02] <LarstiQ> Tak: so they do both make sense, but for different usage then what you had in mind I think.
[15:04] <Tak> ok, that's fine
[15:05] <Tak> I just want to make sure I shouldn't be hiding "Update" when the branch is unbound, and vice-versa
[15:05] <LarstiQ> Tak: afaik those are the only usages, if you can provide that in a different way you might get away with it.
[15:05] <LarstiQ> Tak: it's a balancing act between not confusing users and giving them the power to accomplish things.
[15:06] <LarstiQ> Tak: in bzr too, it could be debated if this behaviour is what we want.
[15:06] <LarstiQ> since I agree it isn't entirely obvious
[15:06] <LarstiQ> Tak: so if you have a better workflow model, please share! :)
[15:06] <Tak> heh
[15:21] <ricardokirkner> hi. has anyone experience with clue-bzrserver? I cannot manage to get it running, and there is almost no documentation. Or can anyone recommend me the simplest way to have authentication on commit/push without having to expose the full path on the server? (the way bzr+ssh works).
[16:22] <pickscrape> What would be the best way to search for commits by a particular user? I can't see anything in bzr log about it, and bzr search doesn't appear to either.
[16:23] <jelmer> ricardokirkner: I think rocky or pygi are the people to talk to
[16:23] <jelmer> servilio: hi
[16:24] <servilio> jelmer: hi!
[16:24] <ricardokirkner> jelmer: as usual, thanks for the help/info... I will ping them later then
[16:24] <jelmer> servilio: Yeah, I couldn't reproduce it but then realized I was testing with an older version of bzr-svn
[16:24] <jelmer> so I'll give it another try in a few minutes
[16:24] <servilio> jelmer: ok, let me know
[16:27]  * pickscrape resorts to bzr log -n0 | less
[17:30] <C10uD> hello
[17:30] <C10uD> i screwed up my repo on launchpad, i don't know why
[17:30] <C10uD> how can i get it working again?
[17:30] <C10uD> (link coming..)
[17:31] <C10uD> https://code.launchpad.net/~c10ud/emesene/emesene-crazy
[17:31] <C10uD> it shows two faulty revisions, it should show 1341
[17:34] <Tak> is 1341 the revision at which you branched from somewhere else?
[17:35] <C10uD> yes, i screwed up while trying to create another branch of this one
[17:36] <Tak> so is it that you don't want those two revisions in the branch?
[17:37] <C10uD> yep
[17:37] <C10uD> i don't even know why they got 1 and two..
[17:38] <Tak> if you click "all revisions" it shows them as 1342 and 1343
[17:39] <C10uD> oh, right, but i tried reverting and didn't work...i'll try again
[17:39] <C10uD> $   bzr branch lp:~c10ud/emesene/emesene-crazy
[17:39] <C10uD> Branched 2 revision(s).
[17:39] <C10uD> see?
[17:40] <C10uD> $ bzr revert -r1341
[17:40] <C10uD> bzr: ERROR: Requested revision: u'1341' does not exist in branch: BzrBranch6('file:///home/riky/msn/emesene-crazy/'
[17:44] <Tak> from the branch's perspective, you want to revert to r0 (bzr log)
[17:45] <Tak> hmm, no, that's notn right
[17:46] <C10uD> :s
[17:47] <C10uD> anyway fortunately there's another repo in there that contains exactly what i need.. if it can help
[17:47] <C10uD> it's stopped exactly at rev 1341
[17:47] <Tak> `bzr uncommit -r0` seems to do what you want
[17:47] <Tak> or you could rebranch from the other
[17:49] <C10uD> if i uncommit, then i must push directly or commit?
[17:50] <C10uD> ok, i tried.. if i commit i get a newer revision: 1
[17:50] <C10uD> pushing make no difference
[17:54] <C10uD> maybe found
[17:54] <C10uD> let's try
[17:57] <C10uD> i was using revid's but seems i can't get to previous numeration, when i commit i still get 1 or two...mmm
[18:00]  * maxb wonders if "bzr push --overwrite" is what C10uD wants?
[18:01] <C10uD> after uncommit?
[18:04] <C10uD> anyway, yes now i killed the latest two changes
[18:04] <C10uD> but still, i get 1 as the latest commit id
[18:30] <Tak> C10uD: is there some reason you're so concerned about the revision numbers?
[18:32] <C10uD> just win the machine, i guess
[18:35]  * LarstiQ looks at the branch
[18:39] <C10uD> $ cat .bzr/branch/last-revision
[18:39] <C10uD> 0<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:39] <C10uD> what if i edit this?
[18:40] <C10uD> i'll do it
[18:41] <Tak> that seems like A Bad Idea
[18:41] <C10uD> but, seems it worked (!)
[18:41] <jelmer> C10uD: you can change it, but you generalyl shouldn't have to
[18:41] <C10uD> let's see web interface
[18:42] <C10uD> it worked ._.
[18:42] <C10uD> so simple, wtf
[18:42] <C10uD> brb food, thanks for your support guys
[18:42] <C10uD> :)
[18:58] <awilkins> Ok, I can pretty much guess what the answer is ; but... when editing branch metadata (like `.bzr/branch/location`) in vim, they become broken (because of vim's obstinate insistence of tacking a line ending to the end of every line). Workaround ; don't use an editor that follows this convention, or use the binary mode of vim (by passing -b). But would people be open to making Bazaar tolerant of this condition?
[19:04] <jelmer> awilkins: I think so
[19:04] <awilkins> Ooh, goody
[19:05] <jelmer> awilkins: what is .bzr/branch/location used for though? I don't have that file
[19:06] <awilkins> It's used in lightweight checkouts to point to the location of the branch
[19:06] <awilkins> Mine appeared to have been orphaned so I was editing it to point to a new spot
[19:34] <schmichael> so i haven't quite pinpointed the exact way to reproduce the bug, but using bzr+ssh to a remote host that i have ControlMaster configured for in my .ssh/config file seems to break that ssh connection semi-regularly
[19:34] <schmichael> it seems bzr keeps the connection open
[19:35] <schmichael> so if i started a shell session first, it freezes
[19:35] <schmichael> if i used bzr first and try to connect via ssh, ssh never seems to connect (like the control pipe isn't responding)
[19:36] <schmichael> i'd like to let bzr use ssh connection multiplexing, but as a workaround is there a way to tell bzr what options to pass to its ssh subprocess?
[20:17] <mib_dbs1teqz> When running bzr checkout --lightweight, the control directory is not supposed to come along, correct?
[20:17] <jelmer> mib_dbs1teqz: it is supposed to come along, but contain almost no data
[20:18] <mib_dbs1teqz> Ah
[20:18] <jelmer> mib_dbs1teqz: for no control directory at all, use "bzr export"
[20:18] <mib_dbs1teqz> Excellent; it's for pulling onto a live web server, so that would be best
[20:19] <jelmer> mib_dbs1teqz: if you need to keep a checkout without control directory on a web server up to date, use bzr upload
[20:21] <mib_dbs1teqz> What is the difference between that and export?
[20:28] <jelmer> mib_dbs1teqz: export doesn't work incrementally
[20:28] <mib_dbs1teqz> For small projects, would there be any noticeable advantage?
[20:29] <jelmer> I think export will complain if you use it incrementally
[20:29] <mib_dbs1teqz> OK.
[21:05] <nevans> jelmer: is there some way to just disable the whole "discovering tags" step in bzr-svn?
[21:06] <nevans> it's always by far the longest part of push or pull to the repo, and I don't really care that much if bzr-svn knows about the svn tags dir.
[21:18] <schmichael> hm, the wiki seems to advocate ssh multiplexing yet it seems awfully buggy to me: http://bazaar-vcs.org/Bzr_and_SSH
[21:18] <jelmer> nevans: it should be very quick in newer versions
[21:19] <jelmer> schmichael: I haven't ahd any trouble with it
[21:19] <schmichael> jelmer: really?  damn, wonder whats going on for me.  ubuntu 9.04 locally and debian lenny remotely fwiw
[21:21] <schmichael> hm, think bzr-avahi or dbus could be to blame?  i'll try disabling them
[21:21] <MattCampbell> Does Bazaar have anything similar to externals in Subversion?
[21:22] <jelmer> MattCampbell: not yet, but work is underway
[21:45] <schmichael> how do i display the current rev # like "hg id"?
[21:45] <schmichael> ah revno
[21:48] <awilkins> Offtopic : does `top` have a problem reporting process memory allocation beyond 2GB (on a 64-bit kernel) ?
[22:26] <awmcclain> Is there any way to take my uncommitted changes and apply them to another branch?
[22:27] <awmcclain> Since the branch I have the changes in is bound...
[22:27] <dash> awmcclain: you can use bzr merge --uncommitted
[22:27] <awmcclain> dash: Perfect.
[23:54] <Ddorda> how do i make a patch?
[23:59] <jelmer> Ddorda: bzr diff > file.diff
[23:59] <Ddorda> thanks


[16:45] <pwnguin> i hear someone was working on maemo in ubuntu. stil true?
[16:48] <Meizirkki> pwnguin, Have a look at Mer http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
[16:50] <pwnguin> ive seen mer
[16:50] <pwnguin> i just grabbed a vbox image last night
[18:56] <armin76> Martyn: 9.10!
[19:13] <ojn> lool: Do you happen to have info on what the different DIP switches on the pegatron/efika control? No silk screen info. :(
[20:55] <darkstar62> Is ubuntu 9.10 supported on the ARMv5te architecture, or is what I've been hearing true that it requires ARM6 or later with vfp?
[20:55] <armin76> ogra: ^
[20:58] <ojn> Karmic is ARMv6 and above
[20:58] <ojn> (big difference between ARMv6 and ARM6 :-)
[20:59] <darkstar62> right, v6 is what I  meant.  As in, won't run on v5te without vfp
[21:00] <eFfeM> any particular reason ? debian still supports v5te iirc
[21:01] <darkstar62> I run ubuntu on my sheevaplug (which is ARMv5te-based without a vfp), and was hoping to be able to do a straight dist-upgrade instead of having to completely wipe and load a new disi
[21:01] <darkstar62> *dist
[21:02] <ojn> darkstar62: unfortunately that's not possible. It is a bit of a bummer since the sheevaplug is a neat platform, too bad Marvell had been lagging behind on the architecture for so long.
[21:04] <darkstar62> is it lack of resources to maintain the two that's the problem? I'm kinda surprised there would only be the one release for v5
[21:04] <ojn> eFfeM: v6 is needed for SMP (A9)
[21:05] <ojn> No lock primitives in v5 I think?
[21:05] <ojn> hmm, I could be wrong on that though
[21:05] <ojn> since there's v5 smp chips. :)
[21:05] <eFfeM> ojn no idea about whether there are lock primitives
[21:06] <eFfeM> but guess this means non-smp support is drooped ?
[21:06] <ojn> I don't see why that would be dropped
[21:07] <eFfeM> as you said v6 is needed for smp
[21:07] <ojn> yes?
[21:07] <ojn> there are v6 non-smp systems too
[21:07] <eFfeM> sure
[21:08] <eFfeM> but if you can have systems w/o smp then why could armv5te not be supported ?
[21:10] <ojn> No idea. It probably makes sense from a business decision though; especially if the chip vendors are paying for the ports. It's bad marketing for them to say "get this distro we sponsored that doesn't take advantage of our hardware".
[21:10] <armin76> indeed
[21:16] <darkstar62> well, if that's the case, could the community work with the ubuntu devs to support armv5?
[21:16] <ojn> Is anyone stopping you?
[21:17] <ojn> I have no idea, but anyone is free to do their own spin
[21:17] <darkstar62> I was thinking more alongside ubuntu to have a ubuntu version for armv5 instead of a spin-off or fork
[21:17] <ojn> I'd just run debian on it though. since it's headless, and alot of the differentiation between ubuntu and debian is on the desktop, you're not missing all that much
[21:18] <darkstar62> mm, true
[21:18] <ojn> I moved back to debian when ubuntu abandoned ppc (for my ppc boxes), and I'm not missing much.
[21:18] <armin76> ojn: thing is the plug comes with ubuntu :)
[21:19] <darkstar62> yeah, I'd have to completely re-image
[21:19] <darkstar62> which I can do, I had just hoped I wouldn't have to
[21:19] <ojn> ah
[21:19] <ojn> bummer
[21:20] <amitk> darkstar62: compiling the entire archive for armv5 would be a bit pointless don't you think?
[21:20] <armin76> yep, ironic :)
[21:20] <amitk> (since debian already supports it)
[21:21] <darkstar62> for headless-operations I'd agree
[21:21] <darkstar62> but there are some shivaplug users using usb video/keyboard/mouse combos to use it as a desktop
[21:21] <armin76> debian has desktop as well :P
[21:21] <darkstar62> true
[21:22] <amitk> it would require an archive for armv5, optimised v6 and (who knows) in the future armv7 and so on
[21:22] <darkstar62> but there again, the shiva plug comes with ubuntu, so they'd have to completely reinstall
[21:22] <ojn> sounds like something you should talk to the shiva plug providers about
[21:22] <armin76> darkstar62: you have to blame marvell for that :)
[21:22] <ojn> did they coordinate with canonical?
[21:22] <darkstar62> my guess is no, since it's not supported officially by canonical
[21:23] <ojn> right
[21:23] <ojn> so they're on their own
[21:23] <darkstar62> and yeah, definitely it's marvell's issue on that
[21:24] <ojn> amitk: well, really all it would take is to provide something at a low enough common denominator. With glibc multilib support some of the perfomance can be recovered (but not all).
[21:24] <darkstar62> well, I guess if there isn't much call for an armv5 port outside some shivaplug users, it doesn't make sense to setup a whole system for just that
[21:25] <armin76> amitk: i think the next after karmic is armv7 only
[21:26] <ojn> armin76: would make sense to be able to move to thumb2
[22:46] <kblin> armin76: some folks with ubuntu cloaks said otherwise, btw


[11:06] <smartboyhw> LjL, ping
[11:39] <LjL> smartboyhw: pong
[11:59] <smartboyhw> LjL, able to put back partybot in #ubuntu-release-party?
[11:59] <smartboyhw> AlanBell, ^