[19:54] <adiroiban> when using context/@@+fragment, is there a nice way to pass GET or POST variables to +fragment ?
[20:17] <sinzui> adiroiban: we often add a initial_values property to the view that will provide a dict of sane values for the missing parameters
[20:17]  * sinzui looks for example
[20:20] <sinzui> adiroiban: LaunchpadFormView sets the missing params from the initial_values dict as is done in lp/registry/browser/announcement.py
[20:21] <adiroiban> sinzui: thanks. I'll take a look
[20:30] <adiroiban> sinzui: the current view is just a LaunchpadView. I have something realy simple, and I don't want to make it a LaunchpadFormView just for sending one GET variable
[20:30] <adiroiban> i want to call https://translations.launchpad.dev/ubuntu/hoary/+translations?something
[20:30] <adiroiban> and have "something" also visible in https://translations.launchpad.dev/ubuntu/hoary/+langchart
[20:31] <sinzui> adiroiban: I would redefine the views __init__ to call initial_values  and have it inject the values into  view.request.form
[20:31]  * sinzui wonders if that has been done before
[20:33] <adiroiban> sinzui: I will try
[20:33] <adiroiban> :)
[20:37] <sinzui> adiroiban: there are several places where views are doing something like
[20:37] <sinzui>     self.request.form['displayname'] = my_value
[20:37] <sinzui> to ensure sane data is in the request before a redirect or some handoff to another process. I think doing this in an __init__ is okay.
[20:38] <adiroiban> ok. I'll try and see what I can get
[20:39] <sinzui> adiroiban: I think you want to check the form using this style:
[20:39] <sinzui>    if request.form.get('something', None) is None:
[20:39] <sinzui>         request.form['something'] = 'sane default'
[20:44] <adiroiban> i'm still learning zope and lp... so I don't know if I should pass some flag over HTTP get or encode it in the url
[20:46] <adiroiban> also I still need to read about the lifecycle/lifetime of a zope view component
[20:49] <sinzui> adiroiban: I do not think zope will help you since we are using LaunchpadView and LaunchpadFormView
[20:51] <sinzui> adiroiban: Those views in lib/canonical/launchpad/webapp define all the objects commonly available, the order they are gotten, and process the form data and do validation
[20:52] <sinzui> adiroiban: The only zope knowledge I need to know is zope.formlib when I am doing something very strange in setupFields or setupWidgets. We have some many examples in views now that I do not think you need to learn that from Zope.
[20:54] <adiroiban> sinzui: thanks.
[20:55] <adiroiban> right now I'm trying to so simple things ... but then I still need to learn the LP way of doing things
[20:56] <adiroiban> so I have this page: https://translations.launchpad.dev/ubuntu/hoary/+translations?all=yes
[20:56] <adiroiban> which has an included fragment
[20:57] <sinzui> adiroiban: the general execution path is View __init__ (we  rarely mess with this, but I think you want to in this case) -> initialize (setup form stuff) -> setupFields -> setupWidgets() -> validate -> Actions -> render()
[20:57] <adiroiban> and I want to see the "all=yes" value in the fragment
[21:00] <sinzui> adiroiban: Something like this I think:
[21:00] <sinzui>     def __init__(self, context, request):
[21:00] <sinzui>         super(MYVIEW, self).__init__(context, request)
[21:00] <sinzui>         # This view may be included as a portlet using default values.
[21:00] <sinzui>         if self.request.form.get('all', None) is None:
[21:00] <sinzui>             request.form['all'] = 'yes'
[21:02] <adiroiban> ok. but in my particular case. I have the same view for the main page and the portlet page ...
[21:02] <adiroiban> does it mean I have to slit them in different views?
[21:07] <sinzui> adiroiban: You could subclass to have different behaviours, but I think this is a case where the view should do the right thing for default and query cases
[21:08] <sinzui> Since setting the form in __init__ is extraordinary, we need a comment to explain that the view is used as a portlet.
[21:09] <adiroiban> sinzui: think I still need to read more as I have no idea when the __init__ or LaunchpadView.initialize() is called
[21:10] <sinzui> init is called when the object is created...it is the constructor
[21:10] <adiroiban> and when is that . Each time I'm accessing the specific URL ?
[21:11] <sinzui> Yes, each time. All objects are garbage collected at the end of the request.
[21:12] <adiroiban> and if I have something like this: <div tal:replace="structure view/translation_focus/@@+langchart" />
[21:12] <adiroiban> it will not create a new request for that inclusion ?
[21:13] <sinzui> That is right
[21:13] <adiroiban> then I can no use that trick
[21:14] <sinzui> The that syntax means: Lookup and execute the adapter for translation_focus (a series) named +langchart
[21:14] <sinzui> adiroiban: why do you need a new request?
[21:15] <adiroiban> sinzui: I don't need a new request.
[21:15] <adiroiban> i have distroseries/+translate page
[21:15] <adiroiban> that "includes" the +langchart page
[21:15] <adiroiban> now I'm calling +translate?all=yes
[21:16] <adiroiban> and I want that "all=yes" to be propagated to +langchart
[21:16] <sinzui> ah
[21:16] <sinzui> that is extraordinary
[21:17] <adiroiban> maybe this is not the right way to do it
[21:17] <sinzui> So you are not seeing the form when the +langchart is called?
[21:18] <adiroiban> if it's from +translations , no
[21:18] <adiroiban> direct access is OK
[21:18] <adiroiban> direct - hacking the URL
[21:19] <sinzui> I think you want to subclass the view then and set the all=yes as I suggested
[21:19] <sinzui> you want to register the new view as a new name in browser/configure.zcml.
[21:20] <sinzui>         <browser:page
[21:20] <adiroiban> yep. I can have +translations and +translations-all
[21:20] <sinzui>             for="lp.registry.interfaces.distroseries.IDistroSeries"
[21:20] <sinzui>             class="lp.translations.browser.distroseries.AllLangsView"
[21:20] <sinzui>             name="+alllangchart"
[21:20] <sinzui>             template="../templates/distroseries-langchart.pt"/>
[21:22] <adiroiban> or +langchart-all ;)
[21:24] <adiroiban> so basically, there is no way to pass a HTTP or TAL "variable" to a fragment page?
[21:24] <adiroiban> and the only way is to create a new view ?
[21:24] <sinzui> There is, by way of define a metal macro instead of adapting to a view
[21:27] <adiroiban> then maybe it is best to use a macro?
[21:29] <sinzui> You would need to rewite the existing template to use the macro. I think that is more work then subclassing and registering
[21:33] <adiroiban> sinzui: thanks for the help!
[21:34] <adiroiban> so to finalize. there is no easy way for something like this: <div tal:replace="structure view/translation_focus/@@+langchart?all=yes" />
[21:34] <adiroiban> easy, trivial
[21:36] <sinzui> I do not think so
[21:40] <adiroiban> the @@+fragment way of include is specific to Zope , or is a LP TALES extension?
[21:40] <sinzui> It is TALES, which is neither zope or lp
[21:40] <adiroiban> :)
[21:41] <sinzui> Here is a quick reference I often use. http://www.owlfish.com/software/simpleTAL/tal-guide.html
[21:42] <sinzui> TALES and METAL are associated with zope, but the engine is not specific to zope any more
[21:47] <adiroiban> well. I will go with the sollution where multiple views are created and I will see what is the feedback from the reviewer :)


[14:52] <mterry> ev, heyo.  Now that libtimezonemap has CcTimezoneCompletion, ubiquity can use the same completion code that indicator-datetime does (which has some extra logic like proper sorting)
[14:53] <ev> yay
[14:54] <mterry> ev, it should be simple to set up.  There is example code in indicator-datetime.
[14:54] <ev> cheers
[14:57] <ev> I've added a todo for myself to sort that out.  Busy with crashdb stuff this week


[10:05] <xu-irc65w> hello, i have a question: xubuntu worked fine so far, but since a few days i have a problem with videoplayback and sound: some minutes after i start a video, the video stops playing and sound turns to a continuing beeeeeep sound, until i close video. it doesnt matter if it is a video i watch via firefox on the internet or if i start a video with
[10:05] <xu-irc65w> vlc. i recently upgraded my system to xubuntu 21.10. it is on a asus e200ha netbook.
[10:19] <xu-irc65w> the questions i have are: is it a sound or a videoproblem, and what can i do about it?
[10:37] <gnrp> xu-irc65w: Sounds to me more like a GPU problem, but could also well be a sound problem
[10:37] <gnrp> do you use any alternative sound servers or os? I know this when the audio device gets stuck then also the video has toruble
[10:39] <xu-irc65w> i use everything just as it is
[10:40] <xu-irc65w> and everythink worked fine so far, i think just until the upgrade to 21.10


[07:49]  * RikMills waits for killer kangaroo to open
[07:52] <cpaelzer> I consider that name unlikely but interesting :-)
[07:53] <RikMills> indeed :P
[08:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Builds: Ubuntu WSL [Jammy Final] has been updated<PHONE_NUMBER>)
[09:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: systemd (jammy-proposed/main) [249.11-0ubuntu3 => 249.11-0ubuntu3.1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[09:30] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted systemd [source] (jammy-proposed) [249.11-0ubuntu3.1]
[09:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted systemd [source] (impish-proposed) [248.3-1ubuntu8.6]
[09:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted systemd [source] (focal-proposed) [245.4-4ubuntu3.17]
[11:25] <jbicha> sil2100: good morning! besides gnome-control-center (didn't publish yet?), I'm requesting early promotion to jammy-updates for these high impact bug fixes: gtk4, evolution, gdm3
[12:47] <ahasenack> is the NBS report broken, or really clean? https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html
[12:50] <apw> it _should_ be really clean.  but ...
[12:50] <jbicha> ahasenack: really clean https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/foundations-team-updates-thursday-14-april-2022/27615/3
[12:50] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: really clean
[12:51] <ahasenack> allright
[12:51] <ahasenack> I'm starting my +1 maintenance week, and took a look there for incoming work
[12:51] <ahasenack> so, zero on that front :)
[13:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-music (jammy-proposed/universe) [41.0-4 => 41.1-0ubuntu1] (desktop-extra)
[13:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: gnome-text-editor (jammy-proposed/universe) [42.0-2 => 42.1-0ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[14:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: apt (focal-proposed/main) [2.0.6 => 2.0.8] (core, i386-whitelist)
[14:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: apt (impish-proposed/main) [2.3.9 => 2.3.9ubuntu0.1] (core, i386-whitelist)
[14:39] <toabctl> sil2100, hey. I filled https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/distro-info-data/+bug/1970227 to get distro-info updated for 22.10 (kinetic)
[14:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: klibc (bionic-proposed/main) [2.0.4-9ubuntu2.1 => 2.0.4-9ubuntu2.2] (core)
[15:06] <xypron> We should remove package khmer LP #1970232
[15:27] <jbicha> sil2100: I see gnome-control-center in -updates and -security now but looks like it's still in -proposed too
[15:29] <bdmurray> jbicha: that's normal with SRUs
[15:30] <bdmurray> jbicha: see the -proposed cleanup section of the pending SRU report
[15:30] <jbicha> thanks 🙂
[15:31] <jbicha> bdmurray: are you able to review gtk4, evolution, gdm3 for early promotion to jammy-updates?
[15:32] <bdmurray> jbicha: I'll have a look in a bit
[15:37] <tumbleweed> aha, we have a name
[15:42] <tumbleweed> anyone want to sanity check: https://salsa.debian.org/debian/distro-info-data/-/commit/af468a03d08ef4c813e8613b3e6fd55ce3553bdf
[15:43] <toabctl> tumbleweed, out of interest - how do you know the exact eol date?
[15:43] <tumbleweed> toabctl: from https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/kinetic-kudu-release-schedule/27263
[15:44] <toabctl> ah, thx!
[15:44] <tumbleweed> well I add 9 months to the release date
[15:44] <tumbleweed> and check that that doesn't land on a weekend
[15:45] <tumbleweed> thanks
[15:45] <bdmurray> tumbleweed: the eol should be in 2023
[15:46] <tumbleweed> so it should :)
[16:24] <bdmurray> vorlon: Given that you accepted the gdm3 SRU for jammy could you look at the early release of it?
[17:36] <vorlon> bdmurray: ok
[18:19] <ricotz> ddstreet, hi :), would you have time to look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1969808 ? it is already uploaded and waiting in the focal queue
[23:17] <kryten> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu-release-upgrader/tree/do-release-upgrade#n161 - it would seem the error handling there on the 'lts' path should be differentiated to whether '-d' was passed or not, right?  Because it seems currently it always says no devel LTS version available even if one didn't pass '-d' to it, while it should say no newer LTS version available (which is currently the ...
[23:17] <kryten> ... case at focal→jammy until the first point release of the latter).


[01:12] <darkxst> craysiii, yes new
[01:12] <craysiii> seems cool
[01:13] <darkxst> now to try and get QT off the images ;)
[01:14] <craysiii> what do you mean?
[01:15] <darkxst> I think it was Ubuntu Software Center that pulled in QT libraries
[01:36] <craysiii> hm.. any reason why an ubuntu 16.04 install wouldn't automatically use nvidia proprietary driver when selecting "3rd party libraries" in the installation process?
[01:37] <darkxst> it never has
[01:37] <craysiii> i could have sworn it did for my desktop
[01:37] <craysiii> oh well
[01:38] <darkxst> I'm pretty sure it always needed to be installed via "Additional drivers"
[19:18] <raparkhurst> hi
[19:21] <raparkhurst> I have a weird issue with gnome-desktop on xubuntu 15.10.  I've been trying out different desktops and with xubuntu 15.10 installed if I install ubuntu-gnome-desktop, it all installs but nautilus doesn't have window borders
[19:21] <raparkhurst> i should also mention that I have the kde desktop installed as well
[19:21] <raparkhurst> in case that throws a wrench in anything
[23:43] <LinDol> hi all
[23:46] <craysiii> hi


[04:00] <valorie> !isitoutyet
[08:03] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Focal Final] has been updated (20200423)
[08:03] <RikMills> new iso to test
[10:39] <BluesKaj> Howdy fplks
[10:58] <RikMills> test
[11:00] <BluesKaj> wish there was a method to block those annoying telegram users at #kubuntu
[11:18] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Focal Final] has been marked as ready
 another iso to test?
 @DarinMiller, Looks like we are good
 Download links in place, but waiting for Ubuntu to push the news story
 kopying kdenlive, yakuake, okular, elisa, and spectacle 20.04.0 to backports landing
 would good if people could test
 see changes @ https://kde.org/announcements/releases/2020-04-apps-update/
 20.04 Kubuntu torrent is up and active.  9 to 10 active leachers.
[17:34] <mamarley> Is it time to upgrade to GG yet? xD
 https://twitter.com/kubuntu/status/1253382547171663881
 (Document) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/ePskNEaB/file_28051.mp4
 To all for the help with 20.04!
 Rik, a huge thanks to you and the elusive santa for doing the heavy lifting!!!
[18:33] <RikMills> not to mention Dmitry Shachnev (mitya57) for doing Qt!
[18:35] <santa_> yw
[18:35] <santa_> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/c2/4b/5ac24b4e59cff9943b2ce51ff52f8701.jpg
[18:35] <santa_> I'm a watchful pigeon
 lol
 lol :)
[20:29] <valorie> btw got covid test results this am: negative
 glad to hear!
 That sounds like mixed news.  "you feel like crap, but at least its not covid"....
[20:31] <valorie> @DarinMiller feeling pretty OK rn
[20:31] <valorie> lots of pain this am, but yeah, it's not covid! \o/ and a successful release! \o/
 Then I would say that is great news!
 Watching the "peers" list in Ktorrent is fascinating.  Peers from literally all over the planet.  Thailand, Russia, Argentina, Morocco, Algeria, France, US, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Ukraine, Slovenia, Germany, Finland, Netherlands, New Zealand, Greece, Venezuela, UK, Japan, Canada.  I don't normally seed since releases occur when I am at work and my PC sleeps at night, but process is easy to initiate when WHF.
[20:58] <valorie> it is the fastest to complete all the releases I've ever seen
[20:59] <valorie> of course the server ones finish fast
[20:59] <valorie> and there are fewer flavor ISOs now that we no longer do i386
[20:59] <valorie> but still
[21:06] <kinghat[m]> so 20.04 and backports are parity atm?
[21:07] <kinghat[m]> prolly in the wrong channel
 Eoan Plasma is a point behind focal (15.18.3 vs 15.18.4) .  Not sure how check version of QT in Eoan as I no longer have an eon session.  See backports ppa for versions: https://launchpad.net/%7Ekubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports/+index?field.series_filter=eoan&batch=75&memo=225&start=225
[21:16] <kinghat[m]> do you know how to check the applicaions version?
 For my active sessions, I typically reference Dolphin -> Help  -> About Dolphin or from the terminal "apt list dolphin"
[21:21] <kinghat[m]> ah ok, that makes sense.
[21:21] <kinghat[m]> so does the backports get the updated applications that were pushed today or do they go to the LTS?
[21:22] <kinghat[m]> i see the backports is still on 19.12.3
[21:22] <RikMills> eoan backports?
[21:23] <RikMills> eoan backports can't have versions of things that are higher than those in focal
[21:23] <kinghat[m]> or whatever the backports moves to?
[21:25] <kinghat[m]> the focal backports will be pairty for a while?
[22:25] <mparillo> Thanks and congrats to all, but especially Rik, Santa, Darin.
[23:14] <valorie> amen to that!
[23:14] <valorie> and you for writing, mparillo


[06:54] <gubluntu> does anyone know if ubuntu server will auto-output shell to serial during install? or do i need to setup it to do so
[06:54] <gubluntu> w/ a monitor


[06:13] <mborzecki> morning
[07:17] <zyga> o/
[07:18]  * zyga had a hard night
[07:19] <mborzecki> zyga: hey
[07:20] <zyga> hey
[07:20] <zyga> mborzecki: janek is 13 today
[07:21] <mborzecki> zyga: wow nice, best wishes for him :)
[07:22] <zyga> and iza turned her room upside down
[07:22] <zyga> being upset and angry well into midnight
[07:22] <zyga> because she wanted to have something for the sims and we said no, and it went downhill from there
[07:22] <mborzecki> hahaha ;)
[07:22]  * zyga is sleeeeeepy
[07:22] <zyga> (literally half of her stuff is downstairs as it slid down the stairs)
[07:23] <mborzecki> quick errand, need to drop by the town hall, back in 1h or so
[07:23] <zyga> she also tore our bed apart
[07:23] <zyga> good luch
[07:23] <zyga> luck I mean
[07:23] <zyga> I need to wake up
[07:45] <mborzecki> re for a little bit
[07:48] <mborzecki> i keep forgetting, why do we avoid using x/sys/unix?
[07:50] <zyga> mborzecki: no idea
[07:52] <zyga> I think it used to not support ppc
[07:52] <zyga> but now we don't support ppc eiter
[08:05] <pstolowski> mornings
[08:05] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[08:06] <mborzecki> ok, trying the town hall once again
[08:16] <zyga> Hey
[08:16] <zyga> Is town hall today?
[08:18] <pstolowski> hey zyga
[08:18] <zyga> :-)
[08:19] <pstolowski> yeah i asked mborzecki the same, i don't have anything in my calendar
[08:22] <zyga> I see Oct 24th
[08:23] <zyga> nothing more?
[08:28] <pstolowski> zyga: same here
[08:33] <mborzecki> re
[08:34] <mborzecki> zyga: no, i mean my local council ;) dealing with some beaurocracy stuff here
[08:45] <zyga> ah ;D
[09:20]  * Chipaca coffees up
[09:32] <zyga> hey Chipaca  :)
[09:46] <Chipaca> zyga: 'sup :)
[09:46] <zyga> good, sleepy
[09:46] <zyga> slow day
[09:47] <Chipaca> zyga: yup
[09:47] <Chipaca> zyga: feels like a saturday, here
[09:51] <pstolowski> Chipaca: hey, i'll re-request a review for snapctl is-connected from you; the core implementation didn't change, but there is new stuff wrt error propagation between api and client
[09:51] <pstolowski> Chipaca: and i feel it's a bit of muddy waters :}
[09:51] <Chipaca> pstolowski: ok
[09:52] <pstolowski> i'm going to push in a moment
[10:05] <zyga-laptop> Chipaca http://asciicker.com/y0/
[10:05] <zyga-laptop> Chipaca try f1 / f2
[10:12] <ppd1990> Hi. Isn't snapcraft 3.9.2 supposed to be in the stable channel already?
[10:17] <pstolowski> zyga-laptop: wow @asciicker
[10:22] <Chipaca> ppd1990: supposed by who?
[10:23] <ppd1990> Chipaca: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-snapcraft-3-9/13944/26
[10:26] <Chipaca> ppd1990: hm. Maybe it's phasing, or maybe somebody found an issue and it had to be rolled back?
[10:26] <zyga> pstolowski: right? :)
[10:26] <zyga> brb
[10:27] <mup> PR snapd#7824 opened: snap/squashfs, osutil: verify files/dirs can be accessed by mksquashfs when building a snap <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7824>
[10:27] <mborzecki> just when i thought mpt doesn't work again
[10:27] <mpt> ?
[10:28] <mborzecki> mpt: sorry, meant mup :)
[10:28] <Chipaca> mborzecki: no rebooting mpt
[10:28] <Chipaca> without their consent at least
[10:29] <mborzecki> should rename mup to something more bot-like
[10:29] <mpt> 😴
[10:29] <ppd1990> Chipaca: Probably :)
[10:29] <Chipaca> ppd1990: ask sergiusens in a few hours
[10:30] <Chipaca> ppd1990: (or, ask in that forum thread)
[10:30] <pstolowski> ppd1990: or ask on the forum
[10:34] <Chipaca> wow, the models used for CV are yuge
[10:34] <Chipaca> it's like 4GB of just models
[10:35] <zyga> what are you doing with CV?
[10:35] <mborzecki> osutil/stat.go:106:9: undefined: syscall.Faccessat on osx :/
[10:36] <zyga> mborzecki: heh
[10:36] <zyga> mborzecki: one sec
[10:37] <zyga> yeah, no such syscall
[10:38] <zyga> mborzecki: macos doesn't have a stable syscall layer
[10:38] <zyga> so we should probably not use it
[10:38] <zyga> it only has a stable .dylib layer
[10:45] <mborzecki> zyga: can you check what value does R_OK have on osx?
[10:52] <mborzecki> heh it's in x/sys/unix
[10:53] <mborzecki> i mean, the Faccessat on osx
[10:55] <Chipaca> zyga: just trying to get https://github.com/sniklaus/3d-ken-burns to work, for now
[10:58] <zyga> aha
[11:26] <mup> PR snapd#7825 opened: many: use transient scope for tracking apps and hooks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825>
[11:26] <zyga> mborzecki: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825
[11:26] <zyga> I decided to open it without larger changes
[11:26] <mup> PR #7825: many: use transient scope for tracking apps and hooks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825>
[11:27] <zyga> mborzecki: I think landing and iterating will be just easier
[11:27] <zyga> mborzecki: and will unlock more things to land in parallel
[11:27] <zyga> (smaller things)
[11:39]  * zyga is baby-sitting lucy
[12:02] <mborzecki> time for some reviews
[12:24] <cachio> cmatsuoka, hey
[12:24] <cachio> there is a bug that perhaps you could take a look https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1852544
[12:24] <mup> Bug #1852544: uc20 grubenv block seems odd <core20> <Gadget snap for Personal Computers using Intel or AMD processors:New> <Ubuntu Image:Invalid> <snapd (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1852544>
[12:24] <cachio> it is related to UC20
[12:26] <cmatsuoka> cachio: checking that
[12:26] <cachio> cmatsuoka, thanks
[12:27] <cmatsuoka> cachio: we're already working on that
[12:27] <cachio> cmatsuoka, nice
[12:27] <cachio> cmatsuoka, good to know
[12:27] <cachio> cmatsuoka, is there a priority to assign to  the bug?
[12:27] <cmatsuoka> I believe it's already fixed but I didn't check the latest image to see how it's going
[12:29] <cmatsuoka> xnox: did we fix  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1852544 already? I believe so since you have a booting image (which I didn't check yet but's in my todo list for this morning)
[12:29] <mup> Bug #1852544: uc20 grubenv block seems odd <core20> <Gadget snap for Personal Computers using Intel or AMD processors:New> <Ubuntu Image:Invalid> <snapd (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1852544>
[12:30] <xnox> cmatsuoka:  i believe that is still wrong
[12:30] <xnox> cmatsuoka:  in the gadget snap, i'm importing all the environment blocks, both good and bad.
[12:31] <cmatsuoka> xnox: humm ok I'll check the plans with Michael
[12:31] <cmatsuoka> xnox: thanks
[12:50] <cachio> kenvandine,  hi
[12:51] <cachio> kenvandine, I see and error when installing gimp in i386
[12:51] <cachio> kenvandine, https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/spread-cron/builds/618422327#L3292
[12:51] <cachio> is it being supoported right?
[13:02] <mup> PR snapcraft#2827 closed: build providers: only set the snapd flag when installing snapd <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2827>
[13:09] <sergiusens> ppd1990: there was an issue, I had to roll back temporarily https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/commit/1eebc27968e20e63ead11f7214c655284357fef2
[13:09] <ppd1990> sergiusens: Thanks a lot for the info. Much appreciated!
[13:11] <sergiusens> getting a bug (in my human body) did not help in making this go faster, sorry about that
[13:28] <mup> PR snapd#7726 closed: RFC: change how snapd tracks processes <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7726>
[13:29] <mup> PR snapd#7722 closed: cmd/snap-confine: add sc_join_sub_group <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7722>
[13:32] <mup> PR snapd#7486 closed: tests: add regression test for lp: #1844496 <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7486>
[13:32] <mborzecki> zyga: we don't have a type for security tags do we?
[13:33] <mborzecki> zyga: i'm looking at #7825, and thiking that we may need a package to encode the ideas about naming things, like snap related cgroup, security tag and so on
[13:33] <mup> PR #7825: many: use transient scope for tracking apps and hooks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7825>
[13:33] <zyga> mborzecki: nope
[13:34] <zyga> mborzecki: security tag is more of an interface
[13:34] <zyga> mborzecki: with a String() method
[13:34] <mborzecki> zyga: for instance, right now the scope name is in snap run where it's created, and then some bits are in snapstate where the cgroup name is interpreted
[13:34] <zyga> and a InstanceName() method
[13:34] <zyga> I think we can clean it up a lot but ... it's a long path
[13:34] <zyga> mborzecki: can you do a quick review on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7784
[13:35] <zyga> I can land it and iterate perhaps
[13:35] <mup> PR #7784: cmd/snap-update-ns: adjust debugging output for usability <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7784>
[13:35] <zyga> mborzecki: back to security tag, I think it ought to be an interface
[13:35] <zyga> mborzecki: because we have several kinds of security tags that are not alike
[13:35] <zyga> mborzecki: the concrete type of each could be string
[13:36] <zyga> mborzecki: but the wrapper type would be more useful .e.g. hook security tag, app security tag, that weird non-app-non-hook security tag for some udev things
[13:36] <zyga> mborzecki: it could have methods like SnapWideGlob()
[13:36] <mborzecki> zyga: and then the scope & cgroup names
[13:36] <zyga> and we could have a helper like GenrateScopeName(tag SecurityTag)
[13:37] <zyga> *Generate
[13:38] <zyga> mborzecki: how does that sounD?
[13:38] <mborzecki> sounD :) like systemD? :P
[13:41] <zyga> mborzecki: btw, offtopic, on fedora 31 I don't get snap icons in alt-tab in gnome
[13:41] <zyga> probably related to the centos bug
[13:41] <mborzecki> zyga: do you get them in the activities view?
[13:41] <zyga> yes i do
[13:42] <mborzecki> zyga: i suppose nothing in the logs?
[13:42] <mborzecki> zyga: btw. wayland or xorg?
[13:43] <zyga> wayland
[13:43] <zyga> logs are always full of garbage
[13:43] <zyga> lis 29 14:43:04 x240 gnome-shell[2041]: value "nan" of type 'gdouble' is invalid or out of range for property 'vignette-sharpness' of type 'gdouble' ;-)
[13:43] <zyga> lis 29 14:43:10 x240 systemd[1841]<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Succeeded. ;)
[13:44] <zyga> but nothing about the fact icons are gone
[13:44] <mborzecki> heh, at least it's no spamming the logs like it did a month ago
[13:44] <zyga> weirdish
[13:44] <zyga> oh it's full of junk really
[13:44] <mborzecki> right after 3.34 there'd be a constant 1-2kB/s of logs going to journal
[13:45] <zyga> heh
[13:45] <zyga> nvme pays for itself ;)
[13:53] <mup> PR snapd#7784 closed: cmd/snap-update-ns: adjust debugging output for usability <Created by zyga> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7784>
[14:01] <zyga> mborzecki: I cannot join yet
[14:01] <zyga> lucy is waking up now
[14:01] <zyga> mborzecki: my update is simple: working on more testing and follow-ups
[14:01] <zyga> I'll update the doc shortly
[14:11] <xnox> cmatsuoka:  i did snap refresh of ubuntu-image & snapd
[14:12] <xnox> cmatsuoka:  created a fresh image
[14:12] <xnox> it still has two copies of core & pc-kernel snaps
[14:12] <xnox> once in /snaps and ones in /var/lib/snapd/snaps/
[14:12] <xnox> the second location is not used on UC20 seed partition
[14:12] <xnox> and grubenv is still in the wrong location at /boot/grub/ instead of at /EFI/ubuntu/
[14:14] <kenvandine> cachio: afaik.  diddledan see the question about gimp?
[14:19] <mborzecki> zyga: left some comments under 7825, need to play with this locally
[14:19] <cachio> kenvandine, taj, ok, thanks
[14:20] <diddledan> what's the spread test trying to do with gimp?
[14:22] <zyga> mborzecki: sure, thank you
[14:25] <zyga> thanks, replied to most
[14:25] <zyga> I'll apply the trivials shortly
[14:25] <zyga> mborzecki: note, I'm running this on F31 and it's not exploding :)
[14:28] <zyga> it's pretty cool that I can see memory usage of my app
[14:28] <zyga> mborzecki: sublime-text instance from a snap https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/M8V1r6t3/
[14:33] <cachio> diddledan, it just installs gimp
[14:35] <diddledan> are you sure that's _all_ it is doing? because there's weird messages about "Match"ing stuff
[14:38] <cachio> diddledan, this is the test https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/tests/nightly/install-snaps/task.yaml
[14:38] <cachio> diddledan, the MATCH is used to detect the channel and other info about the snap to isntall
[14:39] <diddledan> so what is the actual failure condition then?
[14:41] <cachio> diddledan, the test tries to install gimp in ubuntu 16.04 32bits
[14:41] <cachio> and this is happening
[14:41] <cachio> + snap install gimp --stable
[14:41] <cachio> error: cannot perform the following tasks:
[14:41] <cachio> - Ensure prerequisites for "gimp" are available (cannot install prerequisite "gtk2-common-themes": no snap revision available as specified)
[14:42] <zyga> cachio: that's weird, I'm not getting that
[14:42] <diddledan> yes, well that's not my fault then. that's down to whoever unpublished gtk2-common-themes from the 32bit stable channel :-)
[14:42] <diddledan> it affects other snaps too
[14:42] <diddledan> e.g. audacity
[14:43] <cachio> diddledan, yes
[14:43] <diddledan> (another of mine :-)
[14:44] <diddledan> gtk2-common-themes is still available in 64bit so I'm assuming closing the 32bit stable channel was either a mistake or someone wasn't thinking things through
[14:44] <cachio> I could include audacity to the test if you want
[14:44] <cachio> to we detect this kind of errors on important snaps
[14:45] <diddledan> in fact, gtk2-common-themes is _only_ availeble for amd64 now - it used to be available for i386.. https://snapstats.org/snaps/gtk2-common-themes
[14:46] <diddledan> kenvandine: is this something for you to look into?
[14:48] <kenvandine> Not sure what happened to i386
[14:49] <diddledan> it is probably worth investigating adding armhf and arm64 too
[14:50] <diddledan> for those of us that insist on using a pi as their desktop :-p
[14:50] <kenvandine> Yeah
[14:50] <kenvandine> I can't look at it today, but will on Monday
[14:51] <diddledan> coolbeans :-)
[14:51] <zyga> ah, 32bit systems
[14:51] <zyga> interesting
[14:54]  * cachio lunch
[14:58] <mborzecki> zyga: 130MB for sublime?
[14:58] <diddledan> all the MB!
[15:00] <mborzecki> heh, actually my emacs is using 250MB of heap so, maybe 130 isn't that much after all
[15:12] <zyga> mborzecki: yeah
[15:12] <zyga> mborzecki: I guess that's all the .so's loaded and stuff
[15:12] <zyga> mborzecki: but it's really neat
[15:12] <zyga> because we _can_ measure it
[15:21] <mborzecki> finally #7824 is green
[15:21] <mup> PR #7824: snap/squashfs, osutil: verify files/dirs can be accessed by mksquashfs when building a snap <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7824>
[16:05]  * zyga participated in his son's birthday
[16:07] <pstolowski> cachio: 2 questions to #7815, once clarified i can +1 it
[16:07] <mup> PR #7815: tests: reduce the complexity of the test-snapd-sh snap <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7815>
[17:33] <Chipaca> i'ma gonna go ahead and EOW
[17:33]  * Chipaca just broke all the tests
[17:33] <Chipaca> see y'all monday
[17:49] <sdhd-sascha> zyga: hi, Hope your day was better than the night.
[18:23] <zyga> sdhd-sascha: it was pretty calm :)
[18:25] <sdhd-sascha> :) I had to help the in-laws today.
[18:26] <sdhd-sascha> I had two small question, if you have time ?
[18:27] <zyga> sure
[18:29] <sdhd-sascha> Is it possible to use a part only on a specific release (e.g. only on bionic) ?
[18:30] <zyga> are you asking about building in snapcraft?
[18:30] <sdhd-sascha> i found the advanced-grammer - but until now no source code
[18:30] <sdhd-sascha> yes
[18:30] <zyga> yeah
[18:30] <zyga> the source code is in a sister project, there are tests for this feature
[18:30] <zyga> which can be used as quick documentation
[18:30] <zyga> it's github.com/snapcore/snapcraft
[18:31] <sdhd-sascha> ok, i have it already here
[18:31] <zyga> I don't know the details, I think it's meant for system packages that can be injected into a snap package
[18:31] <zyga> you can vary those depending on build architecture IIRC
[18:31] <zyga> but it's not for this-or-that release
[18:31] <zyga> because the release is fixed by the selection of the base snap
[18:31] <zyga> inside snap.yaml and snapcraft.yaml you can say base: foo
[18:31] <zyga> and foo is a base snap name that defines how to build it
[18:31] <zyga> and how to run it
[18:31] <zyga> there are two commonly used base snaps now
[18:32] <zyga> core, which is derived from ubuntu 16.04
[18:32] <zyga> and core18 which is derived from ubuntu 18.04
[18:32] <sdhd-sascha> yes :-)
[18:32] <zyga> if you say base: core18 you will get binary packages from the matching architecture of that release
[18:32] <sdhd-sascha> i found it inside git:snapcraft/internal/project_loader/grammer/_on.py
[18:33] <sdhd-sascha> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/UecwmS5C/
[18:34] <sdhd-sascha> my problem is, that fontconfig of my 19.04 host is incompatible, with core18 ... Ok, i will try if a newer fontconfig inside a part is backward compatible
[18:34] <zyga> yeah, as I said it's for things like "on arm64 use this package" on "amd64 use that package"
[18:34] <zyga> wait wait
[18:34] <zyga> your host should not be a part of the build
[18:34] <zyga> when you build with snapcraft your tree should be transferred to a pristine vm managed by multipass
[18:34] <zyga> and built there
[18:34] <sdhd-sascha> Yes, but /etc/fonts/font.conf is from the host and mounted inside the snap
[18:34] <zyga> the vm will match the base you picked
[18:34] <zyga> ah, yes
[18:34] <zyga> and what are you seeing?
[18:34] <zyga> we have some special handling for fontconfig
[18:35] <zyga> perhaps there's a bug or the current system is insufficient
[18:35] <sdhd-sascha> i see:
[18:35] <sdhd-sascha> Fontconfig error: "/etc/fonts/fonts.conf", line 6: invalid attribute 'translate'
[18:35] <zyga> can you please report that, along with the output of "snap version" on bugs.launchpad.net/snapd
[18:35] <zyga> we'll have a look on Monday
[18:35] <zyga> I have a plan to stop sharing /etc
[18:35] <zyga> as it was a mistake
[18:36] <zyga> but it's not urgent enough to push through
[18:36] <zyga> (there are higher priority topics first)
[18:36] <zyga> once that is done we can synthesize correct /etc/fonts and anything else that matches the base snap
[18:38] <sdhd-sascha> ok. Also the goal is to not share /etc. right? (only i ask only for me, because i will experiment on this weekend)
[18:38] <zyga> that's my goal
[18:38] <zyga> it's not on the product roadmap
[18:38] <zyga> it will likely happen during the cycle
[18:39] <sdhd-sascha> Why would it be bad, to build fontconfig into the snap? (not urgent this question, i will try this too)
[18:39] <zyga> you can
[18:39] <zyga> but it's just bigger
[18:40] <zyga> and usually there's a fontconfig around from other places
[18:40] <zyga> e.g. the gnome runtime content snap
[18:40] <sdhd-sascha> ok
[18:40] <zyga> snaps don't have a "you must" policy usually
[18:41] <zyga> so if you want to showcase a cool feature of patched fontconfig
[18:41] <zyga> go for it :)
[18:41] <zyga> it's not like classic packaging
[18:41] <sdhd-sascha> The second question was: What is the difference of plugs/slot inside apps and inside global?
[18:41] <zyga> right
[18:41] <zyga> so, in general, each app and hook can have any number of plugs and slots
[18:41] <zyga> if you define a plug at a level of a specific app or hook it is "bound" there
[18:42] <zyga> if you define it globally you add it to all the apps and hooks
[18:42] <zyga> except if you define it globally but then only mention it in a specific app or hook
[18:42] <sdhd-sascha> ok. i understand.
[18:42] <zyga> the reason to define plugs and slots globally is so that you can use the richer syntax that has attributes
[18:42] <zyga> some interfaces require that
[18:42] <zyga> at app/hook level you can only use the abbreviated syntax
[18:42] <zyga> where just the name is given
[18:43] <zyga> and it defines a plug or slot with the same name and type
[18:43] <zyga> one example that is very common, that requires global definitions is the content interface
[18:43] <zyga> because it always requires some attributes
[18:43] <zyga> that's that
[18:43] <zyga> I think it's fairly documented on snapcraft.io/docs
[18:43] <zyga> but if you find something is missing or unclear please just say so
[18:44] <sdhd-sascha> The docs have also hidden pages, which are not in the menu, only in the text...
[18:44] <sdhd-sascha> About plugs/slots:
[18:44] <zyga> missing links are easy to fix
[18:44] <zyga> you can just go to the forum
[18:45] <zyga> and comment on the thread
[18:45] <zyga> there's a link on each doc page
[18:45] <sdhd-sascha> Now if a snap provide wayland and can also run under wayland, how should this be defined ? I got a error, if i use the wayland plug/slot as both
[18:45] <zyga> or ping @degville about it, he's managing documentation
[18:45] <zyga> so interfaces have two sides, plugs and slots
[18:45] <sdhd-sascha> :)
[18:45] <zyga> slots are the "providing" part, and plugs are the "consuming" side
[18:45] <zyga> having a plug or slot may already give you some permission
[18:46] <zyga> having a plug or slot connected to another slot or plug usually gives even more permissions
[18:46] <zyga> are you asking what is needed to run a wayland _server_?
[18:47] <sdhd-sascha> Both, wayland as client under wayland. And wayland as server, and later as client for other snaps.
[18:47] <zyga> ahj
[18:47] <zyga> I see
[18:47] <zyga> so you need two interfaces
[18:47] <sdhd-sascha> But we can delay this question.
[18:47] <zyga> plug and slot of wayland
[18:47] <zyga> they just need to have different names
[18:47] <sdhd-sascha> Ah
[18:47] <zyga> plugs: wayland-client: interface: wayland
[18:47] <zyga> slots: wayland-server: interface: wayland
[18:47] <sdhd-sascha> okay, then copy, paste the interface
[18:47] <zyga> (insert tabs and newlines as required)
[18:48] <zyga> yeah
[18:48] <sdhd-sascha> i understand
[18:48] <zyga> we added a requirement for plugs and slots to have unique names
[18:48] <zyga> to avoid confusing situations
[18:49] <sdhd-sascha> zyga: thank you. Now i have enough task, for the weekend ;-)
[18:49] <zyga> enjoy :)
[18:51] <sdhd-sascha> :)
[18:54]  * cachio afk
[23:51] <mup> PR snapd#7826 opened: tests: use on spread tests the test-snapd-sh snap <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/7826>


[02:05] <astroo-> ciao pessoal
[08:37]  * skorzen Good morning.
[20:38] <FernandoMiguel> boua noute
[20:39] <astroo-> ola pessoal
[21:42] <astroo-> Portal do Governo mostrou informação boa para hackers portuga
[21:42] <astroo-> http://www.dn.pt/inicio/ciencia/interior.aspx?content_id=2433383&seccao=Tecnologia
[22:19] <astroo-> The 5 Most Important Parts of the Facebook TOS (That You Didn’t Read)
[22:19] <astroo-> http://www.businesspundit.com/the-5-most-important-parts-of-the-facebook-tos-that-you-didnt-read/


[07:51] <AceLan> is there anyone runs lucid kernel can paste the below command result here to me thanks
[07:51] <AceLan> ls /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/
[07:52] <ikepanhc> ikepanhc@Natasha:~$ ls /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/
[07:52] <ikepanhc> APIC  DSDT     FACP  HPET  SLIC   SSDT2  TCPA
[07:52] <ikepanhc> BOOT  dynamic  FACS  MCFG  SSDT1  SSDT3
[07:52] <abogani> APIC  ASF!  DSDT  dynamic  FACP  FACS  WDDT
[07:52] <AceLan> ikepanhc: cool
[07:53] <AceLan> abogani: thx
[08:59] <lag> smb: let "var = 0xc041c0b4 + 0x14"; printf "%02X\n", $var
[08:59] <smb> lag, Yeah, guess that should do the trick
[09:03] <smb> mourning cking
[09:03] <cking> morning!
[09:04] <abogani> morning all!
[09:05] <smb> abogani, Good moning
[09:05] <AceLan> morning~
[09:08] <cking> hrm, laptop overheated :-(
[09:08] <ikepanhc> the lenovo N3000?
[09:09] <ikepanhc> good morning .eu
[09:09] <smb> I wished we knew why this happens all of a sudden
[09:09] <smb> ikepanhc, hey
[09:10] <cking> ikepanhc, yep
[09:10] <ikepanhc> is there any document saying how linux-meta package doing?
[09:10]  * smb rolls the drum
[09:10] <cking> smb, I maxed the CPUs on spam filtering, and pop it went
[09:11] <ikepanhc> seems using 'depends on' to pull linux-image package
[09:11]  * apw looks blery
[09:11] <cking> blurry or bleary?
[09:11] <jk-> hey apw, welcome back
[09:11] <apw> a bit of both ....
[09:11] <smb> cking, Blurry would mean he is fast. Hard to believe at this time
[09:12] <apw> jk-, thanks .... not sure i wouldn't rather be supping some nice wine
[10:10] <lag> apw: Do you remember us talking about addr2line?
[10:10] <apw> some
[10:10] <lag> apw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/486657/
[10:11] <lag> I've written a shim
[10:11] <lag> Take -> hack -> keep
[10:12] <apw> looks interesting, it would need some commentry on whats in $ARM/$ARCH for instance
[10:12] <apw> as i assume we have to put something there
[10:13] <lag> That's the part you need to hack
[10:13] <lag> That's just where _my_ Arm code lives
[10:14] <lag> I could make it more general for distribution, this is just the one I'm going to use
[10:22] <lag> apw: For you: http://paste.ubuntu.com/486661/
[10:45] <smb> apw, Ok, eomp :)
[12:36]  * apw pops to lunch
[12:56]  * smb returns from there
[13:05] <pgraner> JFo, can you make sure that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/399978 and all its dupes get dealt with? Somehow these have slipped thru the cracks and its a regression going all the way back to Karmic or so it would appear.
[13:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 399978 in linux (Ubuntu) "Excessive heat versus excessive parkings (affects: 18) (dups: 4) (heat: 84)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[13:06] <smb> pgraner, I had been looking on that I believe
[13:06] <pgraner> smb, no comments from you on that bug, not sure about the dupes
[13:06] <smb> The problem I see is that setting APM from 254 to 253 already starts the head load cycles
[13:07] <smb> pgraner, Wanted to discuss this first on irc and forgot
[13:07] <pgraner> smb, talk to manjo he has contacts at WD they might be able to shed some light on it
[13:07] <smb> Ok
[13:08] <pgraner> smb, JFo will still need to do all process magic on the bugs, get apport-collects and all that fun stuff
[13:08] <smb> I did not see increased heat on my netbook with a wd drive, so I cannot tell whether changing AAM would help temprature
[13:09] <smb> cking, Have you ever experimented with those? Though I think you rather "burn" ssd's :)
[13:10] <smb> JFo, I guess bug 417570 is one of those
[13:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 417570 in linux (Ubuntu) "hard disk is really hot (affects: 3) (heat: 20)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417570
[13:12] <cking> smb, wd drive?
[13:12] <smb> cking, Yeah, maybe not only but I  only remember wd drives. I got two laptops with them and no heat problems
[13:13] <cking> smb, I've only seen overheating when I drove a micro SSD full tilt in a Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop
[13:14] <smb> neither me. but from the reports its claimed that those run at over 50°C and changing APM reduces that, but cause the drive to load-cycle the heads every 15 or so seconds
[13:14] <smb> I can confirm the problem with load-cycling
[13:17] <smb> cking, Cannot even say whether this is more than a annoyance. One of my drives has nearly done 20,000 of them and still runs. But you hear the clicking everytime it does it
[13:17] <apw> many are only rated in the millions of loads, which if it does it every 15s can mount up pretty fast
[13:17]  * cking wonders how many times one can cycle a HDD before it fails
[13:17] <apw> cking, smartutils can tell you i think
[13:18] <smb> apw, right smartctl from smartmon-tools
[13:18] <smb> or the disk util from system->admin
[13:18] <pgraner> apw, so does hdparm -I /dev/sda
[13:19] <pgraner> apw, could this be causing some of the heat issues akgraner is seeing?
[13:20] <apw> pgraner, this is the same old machine, same as tim's yes?
[13:20] <smb> pgraner, She could check the temp of the drive
[13:20] <apw> pgraner, if so, unlikely, as it was ok on lucid and i think those settings were karmic and later
[13:21] <apw> pgraner, she is seeing a return to the old climes to 90c and switches off thing isn't she ?
[13:21] <pgraner> apw, yep, sometimes the box just locks up and won't shut off
[13:26]  * cking pops away for a late lunch
[13:28] <apw> bah none of these values really means anything to me, a normalised vale of 103, worst of 94 and actuall of 44 for temperature on my HDD, what the heck does that mean
[13:29] <smb> apw, It feels sometimes only the actual makes sense
[13:31] <smb> apw, I hope your driver never saw a 94 in temperature
[13:31] <smb> err, drive
[13:32] <apw> indeed lets hope not
[13:39] <tgardner> ogra, is there going to be any rush to re-upload the maverick ti-omap4 package after Beta? I'm out Friday-Mon for the US holiday weekend.
[13:39] <tgardner> I think apw will be around, so he could likely do it.
[13:40] <pgraner> apw, I notice that on my Thinkpad ibm-acpi is borked, it reports all temps as 32F or 0C except the CPU
[13:41] <smb> pgraner, Was that ever different? What model?
[13:42] <pgraner> smb, T410, I've only ever had maverick on it and had been using acpi temp reporting, I thought I'd check out the ibm-acpi and found that strangeness
[13:43] <smb> pgraner, It usually does this for those sensors not present. It might also be that you just have only one. Or it is a bug
[13:43] <smb> Hm, actually mine does -128 for those not present
[13:43] <pgraner> smb, ok
[13:48] <lag> apw: include/sound/soc.h:731
[13:51] <pgraner> lag, looks like i didn't send you an email, one is in your box now.
[13:53] <lag> apw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/486626/
[13:53] <lag> pgraner: Thanks
[14:06] <JFo> pgraner, working on those HDD heat related bugs
[14:30] <ogra> tgardner, if apw can do it thats fine
[14:32] <apw> JFo, be good to make sure we have some kind of long term monitor of the drive temp, like we do for CPU overheat bugs
[14:32] <JFo> yep
[14:32] <apw> that page we did for them has the basic 'watch' stanza to collect it over time
[14:33]  * JFo looks for it
[14:34] <JFo> apw, this one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Debugging/HighTemperatures
[14:35] <apw> we should make up a scripty similar to monitor disks too
[14:36] <JFo> k
[14:40] <diwic> smb, or whoever was wondering about RT kernel for ham radio, have you tried the normal kernel, and how well does it work?
[14:40] <smb> sconklin, ^
[14:40] <JFo> using hdparm doesn't seem so show me temp on my machine
[14:40] <apw> sudo hddtemp -n /dev/sda
[14:40] <apw> JFo, ^^
[14:40] <sconklin> diwic: I haven't gotten all the bits installed to test yet, but I intend to
[14:41] <JFo> command not found apw
[14:41] <diwic> sconklin, I'm curious of how well things would work and also how well the preempt kernel would work
[14:41] <sconklin> diwic: This is a horrible set of things to install, mostly from source, all glued together with shell scripts and config files that have to have the paths to various source dirs
[14:41] <JFo> clearly I am missing something
[14:41] <sconklin> But it's definitely on my list to try various kernels
[14:42] <sconklin> It may be that they spec the rt kernel because it uses jack
[14:43] <sconklin> diwic: this will give you a feel for all the things you have to install: http://code.google.com/p/sdr-shell/wiki/HowToCompileandInstallDttSPfromCGRAN
[14:43] <diwic> sconklin, my general impression is that normal kernels will do fine, but it might be that some drivers blocks the kernel for a very long time
[14:44] <diwic> sconklin, dpkg-configure jackd will do the section under "Kernel parameters" there
[14:44] <sconklin> well, if I have a setup that reliably reproduces blockage like that, that's useful. I did some rt and low-latency work many years ago, and half the problem was being able to excercise the paths that held the kernel locks
[14:44] <sconklin> diwic: oh, thanks for that
[14:45] <diwic> sconklin, for Natty I'd like to change the group name
[14:45] <diwic> sconklin, but that's a different story
[14:46] <sconklin> diwic: the amateur radio community fights a lot of sound problems, but they're not well plugged into the rest of the development community, so there are a lot of various pages with voodoo recommendations for dealing with problems
[14:47] <diwic> sconklin, and unfortunately, the ubuntu community pages are not really correct either
[14:47] <diwic> as in there is "voodoo" there as well
[14:48] <sconklin> yes. I hope that the stackexchange goodness can overtake that eventually
[14:57] <apw> sconklin, sounds like you are generally using hideously out of date kernels as well, cause of the RT requirement, one I cannot begin to understand
[14:57] <apw> i don't see ham radio occuring at a speed to engender such a requirement
[14:58] <sconklin> apw: these are primarily requirements for SDR orr software defined radio, which places very high computational demands on the system while still having to move multiple audio streams around at 48000 samples per second or higher, with zero dropouts
[14:59] <diwic> sconklin, that's unimportant compared to the latency demands you have
[15:00] <sconklin> diwic: kernel latency or audio stream latency? Because delays in the audio stream aren't that big a deal (in a pipelining sense)
[15:01]  * apw tries to see how you have any latency requierme
[15:01] <apw> requirement, if you have no pipelining latency requirements
[15:01] <apw> but then thats why i am a kernel engineer not an audio engineer
[15:02] <diwic> sconklin, what's the lowest latency you need for *anything*?
[15:03] <diwic> sconklin, as in "when my ham radio station receives a packet, I want it to start playing within x msecs"
[15:03] <sconklin> apw: Processing (FFTs and other signal processing occurs over a time range of samples, which is continuously processed. If you lose samples or have to wait for them, it blows the processing, and it doesn't resolve until the entire set of linear samples gets filled again with good data
[15:04] <sconklin> diwic: disclaimer: I am only just delving into this (SDR) but in general for standard TX and RX, hundreds of mS are probably ok. It's very like mumble in that sense.
[15:06] <sconklin> for packet based things where theres a protocol on top, this might be slightly more restricted, but I've done some of this with packet radio, and standard kernels work fine
[15:06] <diwic> sconklin, how can waiting for samples blow the processing? You'll just continue the processing once the new samples has arrived, which leads to a higher latency.
[15:08] <sconklin> because it created a delay in the output, and the output is fed into further processing to decode various frequency-shift and multitone encodings, and accurate timing matters. Not so much with voice, our brains are pretty good at fixing voice
[15:09] <sconklin> it blows it because there are multiple stages of processing, and later ones depend on the timing
[15:09] <sconklin> Hmm, I sense a conference talk here.
[15:09] <diwic> sconklin, not over ham radio, I hope ;-)
[15:10] <sconklin> well, more like "Amateur radio audio processing, which metrics matter in audio and the kernel"
[15:11] <diwic> sconklin, "over" as in "transferred over"
[15:11] <diwic> sconklin, sample processing should not have the wall clock as input, only count samples. IMHO.
[15:11] <sconklin> oh :)
[15:11] <azop> f
[15:12] <sconklin> diwic: that's not how the world works ;-)
[15:12] <diwic> sconklin, fix the world, then ;-)
[15:13] <sconklin> when all this stuff was done in special SP hardware, these were design constraints, but now that it's moving to generalized computing platforms, it's not so simple.
[15:15] <sconklin> diwic: by the way, these are the some of the same issues that the financial quant guys care about in the kernel. Not for Audio, but for analyzing market data. That's why RH pays a lot of attention to things like the statistical distribution of latency of packets from the wire to userspace
[15:17] <diwic> sconklin, yeah, I heard that talk by John Kauer (?) /RedHat at Linux Audio Conference.
[15:17] <diwic> sconklin, he also tried to explain the difference between rt and preempt kernels
[15:17] <sconklin> oh, I didn't would like to have.
[15:18] <sconklin> it's interesting, there are different classes of users. Some want a guarantee that latency will never, ever exceed a certain amount, and others don't care about a few outliers as long as the mean is very low. Two different problem sets.
[15:19] <diwic> sconklin, but that was more from a design rather than user perspective, but I got the feeling that the preempt kernel would work for all practical purposes, so you won't have to try the rt one
[15:20] <sconklin> diwic: iirc that's correct. I used to work with Clark Williams at RH, and he did a lot of that work. I built the hardware test set that they probably still use to measure interrupt processing latency
[15:22] <pgraner> smb, it this what you have been working on?
[15:22] <pgraner> http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=128335075002360&w=2
[15:23] <diwic> sconklin, ah, that was nice to know, now I know who to bug the next time I try to understand latencytop
[15:23] <smb> pgraner, No looks like something different
[15:23] <sconklin> after my time lalalala can't hear you
[15:23] <sconklin> ;-)
[15:23] <pgraner> smb, ok, might want to keep it in mind
[15:24] <diwic> I need to call it a day for now.
[15:24] <sconklin> but seriously, Clark is a really nice guy and very approachable and knows this inside out
[15:24] <smb> pgraner, Yeah, thanks. I keep an eye on it for Lucid and probably need to consider for Hardy
[15:24]  * pgraner nods
[15:26] <tgardner> pgraner, have you checked on emerald recently? seems dead
[15:27] <pgraner> tgardner, no, I was out yesterday, lemme go down there now
[17:28]  * smb sees a pint in his near future
[17:30]  * amitk is seeing the same future
[17:31] <smb> Always good to get the nice fortune cookies. :)
[17:31] <amitk> heh
[17:48] <JFo> sconklin, got the first of the boxes today
[17:49] <sconklin> strange, they were together when they left. Maybe that's a feature of the cheap shipping rate
[17:50] <sconklin> JFo: I'm not sure how useful most of that will be.
[17:54] <JFo> eh, it will or it won't
[17:54] <JFo> either way...
[17:54] <JFo> I got the Litl with the curiously strong magnets?
[18:00]  * achiang perks up at mention of litl
[18:22] <apw> smb-afk, what a good idea
[18:26] <cking> JFo, don't put those magnets near a HDD
[18:26] <JFo> heh
[19:02]  * tgardner lunches
[19:31] <manjo> cking, you coming back :)
[19:31] <manjo> cking, did I scare you ?
[19:37] <cking> manjo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/486907/
[19:53] <tgardner> apw, http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=128335681711984&w=2
[20:11]  * jjohansen -> lunch
[20:44]  * ogasawara lunch
[23:53] <brot> i am trying to bisect a bug in the kernel, and need to compile my own kernel packages to do so. running "make-kpkg --initrd --append-to-version=bisect1 kernel-image kernel-headers" for the vanilla kernel sources fails with:http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/398863/  . can someone tell me what i am doing wrong?