[04:35] <mneptok> nalioth: can you find me a #gentoo op?
[04:36] <Hobbsee> what for?  to shoot?
[04:37] <mneptok> heh
[04:37] <mneptok> nah, they have someone in their channel that just annoyed the piss outta #ubuntu
[04:37] <mneptok> they're next, prolly
[04:39] <nalioth> mneptok: PM me the nick of the individual
[04:40]  * nalioth happens to be a #gentoo op
[04:42] <Jack_Sparrow> dark_angel
[07:27] <ubotu> MenZa called the ops in #ubuntu (tarkus (troll))
[10:55] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[10:56] <Myrtti> is anyone else following the convo on -ot
[11:06] <jussi01> no, 1 line summary?
[11:08] <Myrtti> DrDerek
[11:08] <Seveas> Myrtti, sigh, if I had seen it in time he'd be banned
[11:09]  * elkbuntu wishes we had a 'ban in retrospect' allowance sometimes
[11:28] <jussi01> does anyone know if auto_bleh has a kick forward option? (without banning)
[11:32] <Seveas> a forward is a ban
[11:33] <jussi01> ok.
[12:14] <Mez> * nalioth happens to be a #gentoo op <--- aren't you just an op EVERYWHERE ? *steals your superpowers*
[12:15] <jussi01> Mez: nalioth is _the_ man, he _owns_ freenode :P
[12:16] <Mez> jussi01, no, christel is _the_ woman she _owns_ freenode :P
[12:16] <jussi01> lol
[12:16] <jussi01> Mez: true, but nalioth is right there beside her :D (rock on nalioth )
[12:17] <Mez> lol
[12:17] <jussi01> now, how many times did we ping him :P??
[12:17] <Mez> thats a scary thought
[12:17] <Mez> I'm sure he doesnt higlight his own name, I think he highlights on random stuff, he certainly turns up at strange times
[12:18] <jussi01> heh, probably, like if you said !sta.ff
[12:18] <Mez> nah, he doesnt always turn up then :P
[12:18] <Mez> maybe on "piss"
[12:19] <jussi01> Mez: I have that on hilight :P
[12:19] <Mez> lol
[12:23] <Seveas> piss off :p
[12:23] <jussi01> hahahahahhahaha
[12:24] <Mez> Seveas, lol - by the way, I think the number you have on Nickserv for you is wrong
[12:24] <Mez> I tried to annoy you yesterday and it didnt get through
[12:24] <Seveas> battery is dead
[12:24] <Mez> ah lol, well, when you charge, if you charge in the next 48 hours, you'll have a message from me.
[12:25] <Mez> Ignore it
[13:09] <Pici> Strawberryjam: Hello, how can we help you today?
[13:10] <Strawberryjam> hey there, i have been banned from #ubuntu, might be accidently
[13:10] <Pici> Let me take a look at our logs, hold on
[13:10] <Strawberryjam> i used MIRC power pack as recommended
[13:10] <Strawberryjam> and i think it did somthing automatically
[13:11] <Strawberryjam> ok thnx
[13:11] <Strawberryjam> btw...i am new to all this
[13:14] <Pici> Strawberryjam: When was the last time you were in #ubuntu?
[13:14] <Strawberryjam> about 2 days ago...i remember right clicking a users name, then i was muted i think...then banned
[13:16] <Pici> Strawberryjam: You pasted the definition of 'flatulent' into the channel.
[13:16] <Strawberryjam> yep...i remember that turned out to be flooding...not my intention at all
[13:17] <Pici> Did you mean to paste that at all?
[13:17] <Strawberryjam> i was looking for a response to someone that said he farted (lol
[13:18] <Strawberryjam> then that happened...had no idea it would paste it on diff lines
[13:19] <Pici> Strawberryjam: Can you Please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines , #ubuntu is a support channel, its not for joking around, regardless of if other people are doing so.
[13:19] <Strawberryjam> i also think that my client must have done somthing when i got muted...i have no idea what
[13:19] <Strawberryjam> i understand that...its my major source of information, i am sorry
[13:20] <Pici> Strawberryjam: Please read those guidelines and when you are done you may rejoin #ubuntu.  also take note of the channel topics here and in #ubuntu.
[13:21] <Strawberryjam> thank you...one more thing...could you recommend a secure irc client...the one i used was recommendedby a friend, but it might get me into trouble
[13:24] <Myrtti> on which os?
[13:24] <Myrtti> Linux, Windows?
[13:24] <Strawberryjam> linux and windows....i am using pidgin now in linux...
[13:25] <Myrtti> xchat is nice if you prefer qui
[13:25] <Myrtti> gui, even
[13:26] <Strawberryjam> ok...i'll take some time and check them out...thank you for your time, and help
[13:26] <Strawberryjam> bye
[13:26] <Myrtti> bye
[13:47] <Pici> LjL: I was just thinking the same thing.
[13:48] <Pici> And now it seems they brough a few more with them.
[13:49] <LjL> Pici: they're still talking crap
[13:50] <LjL> Pici: [14:49:28] <apanknen> anybody got any good porn sites <- reason of the kick
[13:51] <Pici> LjL: *shakes head*, do they realize that they are muted?
[13:51] <LjL> i don't think so
[13:51] <jrib> what's with sudobash?
[13:52] <LjL> jrib: uhm i banned him yesterday
[13:52] <Pici> 08:51:12 <?sudobash> you need to take the second ban down off or i will just keep using proxy servers
[13:52] <Jucato> :)
[13:53] <dgjones> Was just coming to point out sudobash's comments about a ban, but I see Pici just mentioned it, I'll go in that case
[13:53] <Pici> :)
[13:54] <LjL> [14:53:37] <sudobash> dude I help people a lot with Ubuntu
[13:54] <LjL> [14:53:56] <LjL> come to discuss in #ubuntu-ops if you want
[13:54] <LjL> [14:54:09] <sudobash> and I have some strong ties at Dell
[13:55] <LjL> sudobash, ban evasion, by policy, is completely unacceptable. since you help a lot as you said, you certainly should have known that, as well as the fact that #ubuntu is far from the right place to appeal a ban.
[13:56] <sudobash> ok fine i will go to efnet if ubuntu isnt the right place to help people who use ubuntu
[13:56] <sudobash> which it is
[13:57] <LjL> sudobash, as you wish
[13:57] <sudobash> man i have used ubuntu for 1 1/2 years now and I help as much as I can... and there a lot of people in there
[13:58] <sudobash> you think i want to be banned from the largest freenode channel where I can help out someone?
[13:59] <LjL> sudobash, i don't try to "think" what you want or do not want to do
[13:59] <sudobash> i should have not said a thing and i would still be in there helping
[13:59] <LjL> i just look at what is acceptable behavior and what is not
[14:00] <sudobash> better off not knowing my IP anyways the way people talk here about laws, rules and enforcement
[14:00] <sudobash> should have been using a proxy the whole time
[14:01] <sudobash> but you put a block on my nick now
[14:01] <LjL> sudobash, i invited you here in case you wanted to discuss, not to make a pointless monologue
[14:01] <Myrtti> what on earth is this
[14:02] <sudobash> yeah could I please have the ban lifted so i can continue to be of some use to Ubuntu users?
[14:02] <LjL> sudobash, you certainly know that open proxies are not even allowed by freenode
[14:02] <LjL> sudobash: no, not at this stage, and ban evasion didn't help it at all either
[14:02] <LjL> hi LukeL, can we help you?
[14:02] <LukeL> hi, just curious
[14:03] <sudobash> i wasnt sure where to ask for it
[14:03] <Myrtti> LukeL: did you read the topic?
[14:03] <LukeL> nope, now I have cyas
[14:04] <LjL> sudobash: well, i think you've been around long enough to know about this channel, but still, even if you didn't
[14:04] <LjL> [14:48] <sudobash> well... i got around your ban
[14:04] <LjL> [14:51] <sudobash> you need to take the second ban down off or i will just keep using proxy servers
[14:04] <LjL> [14:52] <sudobash> how bout an op taking off the second ban down on the list
[14:04] <LjL> [14:52] <sudobash> or you might as well ban this proxy too
[14:04] <LjL> this is not "asking", this is "threatening"
[14:04] <sudobash> why doesnt freenode prevent proxy connects then?
[14:05] <LjL> sudobash: well, i'm not freenode staff, you may want to ask one of them, such as nalioth
[14:05] <sudobash> man i have been around but I havent read all the rules
[14:05] <Myrtti> freenode != ubuntu, ubuntu != freenode
[14:05] <LjL> sudobash: it doesn't take reading the rules to know that the way you handled it is called threatening
[14:05] <sudobash> well i didnt mean to come off like that
[14:06] <sudobash> i should have found this channel
[14:06] <Pici> What about: 2008-03-04T16:41:48 <sudobash> wow and people talk about windows apps and shit... I help people as much as I can here but Im sick of the constant nazi regime act
[14:06] <sudobash> and asked
[14:06] <LjL> Pici: well, that was why i banned in the first place, after i had asked him and others, *kindly*, to bring a couple of offtopic discussions to -offtopic.
[14:06] <Myrtti> eeyyyyygghhh
[14:06] <Pici> LjL: I'm not questioning you ;)
[14:07] <Myrtti> that's a nasty line there, sudobash
[14:07] <sudobash> your right I probably shouldnt be allow back in there but I should take to freenode people about proxy detection
[14:07] <LjL> Pici: yet i'm explaining, always helps
[14:07] <sudobash> allowed
[14:08] <LjL> sudobash, proxy detection is not an exact science.
[14:08] <LjL> that doesn't allow you to dodge bans just because you've been lucky enough to manage to evade the technical measures put against it.
[14:08] <sudobash> yeah thats true... i was doing it in high school to get around their blocks and they had no clue
[14:11] <sudobash> i didnt think about i just did it not thinking i was breaking a rule but i knew i shouldnt have joined ubuntu...  I mean help some noobs out dont bash them and each other just because you are disagreeing about something stupid.
[14:12] <sudobash> but anyway Im sure you are all like what a waste of time
[14:12] <LjL> sudobash, i wasn't disagreeing about anything, i was simply asking to bring "windows apps and shit" to #ubuntu-offtopic, where it belongs. that's my duty as an operator.
[14:12] <sudobash> i understand that and i was disrespectful at the time so i apologize.
[14:15] <sudobash> so like after a month would you consider taking the ban off?
[14:16] <LjL> sudobash: yes
[14:18] <sudobash> cool I appreciate that
[14:18] <LjL> sudobash: meanwhile, do check out the guidelines if, as you said, you haven't before
[14:19] <LjL> !etiquette > sudobash    (sudobash, see the private message from Ubotu)
[14:19] <sudobash> roger
[14:21] <Pici> Myrtti: around?
[14:21] <Myrtti> yup
[14:22] <LjL> sudobash: and please try to keep in mind that there is no way that you'll *always* agree with what the ops do. people have differing opinions about how a channel should be run, but that never justifies being abusive.
[14:22] <Pici> Myrtti: What do you think of the current -ot conversation?
[14:22] <LjL> they're, uhm, talking about marriage?
[14:22] <Pici> I meant the marriage jokes about women....
[14:24] <LjL> i don't think i've seen the two main partecipants in -ot before
[14:24] <Myrtti> yup
[14:24] <Pici> They don't bother me particularly (not very funny imo though), I just wanted to make sure that someone of the female persuasion was comfortable with them.
[14:25] <Myrtti> they're just so old and boring I don't even register them as anti-womenish
[14:25] <Pici> Ten four.
[14:26] <sudobash> very true
[14:26] <sudobash> so yall watch #ubuntu and talk about what they are talking about in there to decide among the @'s what is offtopic and what not? lol thats pretty cool....
[14:26] <Myrtti> sure they would be a bit offensive, but still they're so old and boring that I wouldn't bother even to lift a finger... (nowait I've done so several times to type this message)
[14:26] <sudobash> may I ask what the bots are coded with?
[14:26] <LjL> sudobash, not always
[14:27] <LjL> sudobash, ubotu is a customized supybot
[14:27] <Myrtti> borderline cases are discussed
[14:27] <LjL> Pici: -.-. ..-. --
[14:27] <sudobash> one second
[14:28] <LjL> two too
[14:30] <Pici> Amaranth: el-kbuntu among others requested it be removed.
[14:31] <LjL> Pici: what?
[14:31] <Pici> LjL: twss
[14:31] <LjL> ah
[14:31] <Myrtti> excellent
[14:32] <sudobash> could i possibly do some free scripting or c++ to gain access to #ubuntu again?
[14:33] <LjL> sudobash, no, a ban is a ban and if we just removed bans on request they'd be no use, yet you can keep helping Ubuntu in many other ways: you can file and triage bug reports, you can answer the forums or support requests, for instance
[14:33] <LjL> !support
[14:33] <ubotu> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
[14:33] <Myrtti> and the ban will be removed in due time.
[14:34] <sudobash> wow how long did i prolong it with the ban evasion?
[14:34] <LjL> sudobash: it didn't help. i can't give you a number, we don't have a table with ban lengths...
[14:35] <sudobash> alright well I'll leave you all alone
[15:17] <sudobash> umm i have a question... some how i managed to play an flv with VLC but for some reason the VLC gui wasnt visible anywhere not even in a terminal and the gnome monitor says that VLC was sleeping and using 0% of CPU... normally it uses over 10% even if minimized... is there a way to recreate this (it was an accident)... the video wasnt playing but the audo was...
[15:18] <sudobash> like a way to force a process to sleep to minimize cpu usage
[15:18] <Pici> sudobash: This isn't a support channel.
[15:20] <sudobash> i know i cant go there i figured you all might be interested in processes that behave strangely operating in sleeping mode and not using cpu but still operating somewhat normally
[15:20] <sudobash> or maybe it was just a fluke
[15:21] <sudobash> interesting though if you could get your cpu to do something without directly doing it i couldnt really explain it...
[15:21] <sudobash> sorry
[15:23] <Pici> I removed the banforward, made it a regular ban.
[15:28] <jdong> *cough* compiz still renders the video in the background
[15:39] <PriceChild> I wonder why I got disconnected.
[15:40] <Pici> magnetron: Whats up magnetron?
[15:40] <magnetron> hi, i think there's a new bot in #ubuntu-offtopic . TheEgg
[15:40] <magnetron> a chatting bot.
[15:41] <Pici> magnetron: thanks
[15:42] <Amaranth> --- [TheEgg]<EMAIL_ADDRESS>: Ruby bot. (c) Tom Gilbert
[15:43] <Amaranth> at least he doesn't try to hide it?
[16:44] <jussi01> wha???? root__: root___ root_______ and root________ in #kubuntu
[16:45] <stdin> yeah, I noticed that too
[16:45] <Pici> and root______
[16:45] <stdin> all from Venezuela
[16:45] <Pici> /who root_*
[16:46] <no0tic> no clones, anyway
[16:47] <stdin> all from the same ISP too
[17:45] <ubotu> stdin called the ops in #ubuntu (PS11)
[19:06] <Myrtti> ubotu's lagging again
[19:06] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about s lagging again - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[19:06] <Pici> lies
[19:07] <Myrtti> at least on -ot
[19:07] <Pici> !lag
[19:07] <ubotu> You have lag, I don't have lag
[19:10] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, magnetron said: !lunix is an illegal hacker operating system invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos. At least, that's what http://adequacy.org/public/stories/2<IP_ADDRESS>056.2147.html say..
[19:14] <ubotu> In ubotu, magnetron said: !lunix is a capricious beast, according to http://adequacy.org/public/stories/2<IP_ADDRESS>056.2147.html
[19:15] <nalioth> ubotu: tell magnetron about botabuse
[19:15] <Pici> ubotu: tell magnetron about b
[19:18] <Mez> !b
[19:18] <ubotu> b is an IRC mode that you don't want on your hostname.
[20:44] <nxvl> hi
[20:44] <nxvl> iÂ'm from the Peruvian LoCo Council
[20:44] <nxvl> and i was wondering what's needed to have ubotu around
[20:45] <LjL> nxvl, why is the channel set up as private? :|
[20:45] <nxvl> mm
[20:45] <nxvl> let me ask
[20:46] <LjL> nxvl, are you sure it wouldn't be better to have botijo, the spanish-speaking bot?
[20:46] <nxvl> oh, i didn't know that exist
[20:47] <LjL> nxvl, ask in #ubuntu-irc about it please
[20:47] <nxvl> ok
[20:47] <nxvl> thnx
[22:43] <ubotu> MilitantPotato called the ops in #kubuntu ()
[23:11] <tonyyarusso> Okay, someone seriously needs to remind me in about 2 hours that I really need to fix my package and get some MOTUs to upload it before we get any closer to release...It's totally minor, but my memory stinks.  :)
[23:11] <Seeker`> tonyyarusso: why not do it now?
[23:12] <tonyyarusso> Seeker`: Because the stuff I need to build it is on a computer in a different city.
[23:12] <Seeker`> ah
[23:14] <LjL> tonyyarusso, it's not like your shiny ubuntu system comes with a shiny calendar and reminders applet built in...
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> LjL: 'course not.  It is however like I'm stuck on a Mac right at this moment.
[23:15] <Seeker`> tonyyarusso: ewww :P
[23:15] <LjL> tonyyarusso: i'll DDoS you in two hours then
[23:16]  * Seeker` considers installing hardy on his laptop
[23:16] <LjL> that should remind you
[23:16] <tonyyarusso> LjL: wfm


[00:08] <Bashing-om> ping diddledani
[15:58] <rbasak> o/
[15:58] <rbasak> Is the plan to have the backporters meeting in here?
[15:59] <rbasak> Ah yes - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports/Agenda said so
[15:59] <ginggs> o/
[16:00] <ddstreet> o/
[16:01] <ddstreet> let's give teward laney mapreri some time
[16:01] <ddstreet> i think they were planning to attend
[16:01] <mapreri> sorry, I'm on a call
[16:02] <teward> around but running a bit delayed due to FT job IT issues
[16:02] <teward> (damn Exchanhe servers...)
[16:03] <mapreri> give me 1 min
[16:04] <mapreri> ok, I'm here
[16:04] <ddstreet> ok let's get this going then
[16:05] <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Backporters meeting
[16:05] <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:05:06 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[16:05] <mapreri> what about laney ?
[16:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[16:05] <ddstreet> i did ping him above
[16:05] <ddstreet> he can catch up
[16:05] <mapreri> alright
[16:05] <ddstreet> so i created an agenda page, as rbasak linked above
[16:05] <ddstreet> i'll relink for the record
[16:06] <ddstreet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports/Agenda
[16:06] <ddstreet> hmm hope that worked
[16:06] <mapreri> it did, #link is silent :)
[16:06] <rbasak> I think it does stay silent for those.
[16:06] <ddstreet> i'm happy to chair/guide this first mtg, but anyone please feel free to jump in at any time for anything
[16:07] <mapreri> right behind you, thank you in advance for chairing
[16:07] <ddstreet> on the agenda page, i put in some basic info and links
[16:08] <ddstreet> the main stuff i think is in the discussion topics section, unless anyone has objections i think we can get through the first couple items fairly quickly, even if we just create action items to discuss them more later
[16:08] <ddstreet> i think the bulk of the conversation will be around the process, at the end of the list
[16:08] <mapreri> yes, agreed
[16:08] <ddstreet> ok so first off, membership
[16:08] <ddstreet> #topic membership
[16:09] <ddstreet> the current list of members:
[16:09] <ddstreet> #link https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+members
[16:09] <rbasak> o/
[16:09] <mapreri> I think we need to decide on whether to drop all of the old people in them?
[16:10] <ddstreet> agreed, let's decide that first
[16:10] <ddstreet> rbasak i think is typing
[16:10] <rbasak> I was, but let's do that first.
[16:10] <rbasak> My question was going to be about team leadership, which is in this section but can come last.
[16:10] <mapreri> (and deactivate the techboard, it doesn't need to be an active member, being owner is enough for them)
[16:10] <rbasak> deactivate the techboard> +1
[16:10] <ddstreet> yep agreed here as well
[16:11] <rbasak> I was going to JFDI before but I thought maybe better to wait for the meeting.
[16:11] <ddstreet> well specifically, i think we should drop all the old members, and inactivate the TB
[16:11] <rbasak> Anyone object to dropping all the old members?
[16:11] <ddstreet> seems unanimous, which is good :)
[16:11] <mapreri> very in favour of the matter, however I need to notice that
[16:11] <ddstreet> i do wish laney was here though
[16:11] <mapreri> scottk renewed his membership on oct 6th, which is weird
[16:11] <ddstreet> as he's the only old member who participated so far
[16:12] <mapreri> scottk never said anything in the mail threads right?
[16:12] <rbasak> I wonder if he has a script that does that :)
[16:12] <ddstreet> hmm maybe he just clicked on 'renew' without really thinking about it
[16:12] <rbasak> I had been unable to reach him.
[16:12] <mapreri> yeah, scottk has been quite unavailable as of late
[16:12] <rbasak> When I asked him to transfer ownership to ~techboard - before I asked Launchpad to do it.
[16:12] <mapreri> (as of late: last ~2 years, more or less)
[16:13] <ddstreet> well since laney isn't around, i suggest we just reach consensus of who's here; i'm not sure if we even need an official vote, as i don't hear any objections from anyone
[16:13] <rbasak> I propose that we proceed by removing everyone not present here today. Others can always be re-added later.
[16:13] <mapreri> rbasak: including laney?
[16:13] <ddstreet> +1 to that from me
[16:13] <ddstreet> it's trivial to add him back if he wants to be added back
[16:13] <mapreri> alright
[16:14] <mapreri> +1 as well
[16:14] <rbasak> mapreri: including laney because I think he specifically said in the ML thread that he wasn't able to participate in backport handling.
[16:14] <mapreri> (you can use #agreed instead of formal vote for these matters :P)
[16:14] <ddstreet> ah nice thanks :)
[16:14] <ddstreet> ok so
[16:14] <rbasak> Shall I do those things now then, to allow you to continue typing?
[16:15] <ddstreet> sure thanks
[16:15] <mapreri> please
[16:15] <ddstreet> i suppose for the record we should do an agreed
[16:15] <mapreri> please yes
[16:15] <ddstreet> #agreed remove (inactivate) all old members who are not present in the current meeting
[16:15] <meetingology> AGREED: remove (inactivate) all old members who are not present in the current meeting
[16:15] <mapreri> then, I think reject all pending members as well imho.  let's start clean?
[16:16] <ddstreet> yep i agree on that too
[16:16] <ddstreet> probably most of them aren't interested anymore anyway
[16:16] <ddstreet> no objections?
[16:16] <mapreri> I wonder what that person who requested on 2006-09-09 to join would say if we approve now lol
[16:16] <ddstreet> lol
[16:16] <ddstreet> "sorry for the delay!"
[16:16] <rbasak> There are also a bunch of pending members, but none of them have been a participant in the ML thread. Should I clean those up too?
[16:16] <mapreri> rbasak: we just agreed on that :P
[16:16] <ddstreet> yep i think we're agreed to reject all the pending members
[16:17] <rbasak> OK
[16:17] <ddstreet> #agreed reject all pending members
[16:17] <meetingology> AGREED: reject all pending members
[16:17] <mapreri> last, keep the current "moderated" team, or turn it to "restricted"?
[16:17] <ddstreet> rbasak you might need to add yourself before disabling the TB
[16:17] <mapreri> (I think we this we are over the "administrative" topics)
[16:17] <mapreri> ddstreet: not needed, since techboard stays the owner)
[16:17] <ddstreet> ah ok
[16:18] <ddstreet> mapreri it shows as 'restricted' now for me, did it just get changed?
[16:18] <mapreri> ah, it's already a "restricted" team now.  so probably those pending members were from before the change
[16:19] <mapreri> ddstreet: not sure, didn't look at before.  just assumed it was "moderated" due to the pending members.
[16:19] <rbasak> ddstreet: no we're good - team ownership gives me superpowers
[16:19] <mapreri> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+members is not super clean ♥
[16:19] <rbasak> All agreed changes made I think
[16:19] <ddstreet> as far as moderated vs restricted, i don't have a preference; i suspect there won't be a mass of people applying even if it's moderated :)
[16:20] <mapreri> ime, moderated just lead to spam request more than anything *shrugs*
[16:20] <rbasak> IMHO, allowing people to apply via Launchpad just confuses things.
[16:20] <ddstreet> yeah i'm fine to stay restricted
[16:20] <rbasak> Nobody knows how to deal with that.
[16:20] <mapreri> instead, with restricted team, obviously the way to join is "go badger the team admin!" :P
[16:21] <ddstreet> so for future membership, do we need to define a process now? i'm thinking not
[16:21] <ddstreet> i don't expect many (or any) people to want to join anytime soon
[16:21] <rbasak> I agree that can be deferred.
[16:22] <mapreri> I think that is quite related to the actual backport process, but regardless I think we can defer for now, yes.  also we need to see how things go.
[16:22] <mapreri> and, looking at how nobody was interested to join via mail, well…
[16:22] <rbasak> What I'd like though is clarity on team leadership. Who can make decisions for the team? Specifically I mean administrative decisions, rather than individual review decisions. Making this clear would make it easier for the wider community to engage with you.
[16:22] <ddstreet> #agreed defer discussion to define membership application process
[16:22] <meetingology> AGREED: defer discussion to define membership application process
[16:22] <ddstreet> yes that's a good point
[16:23] <rbasak> I'm quite happy for that to just be ddstreet for now, FWIW.
[16:23] <mapreri> since I'm usually very easy to reach, I'd prefer on a process that is: somebody ask the team to decide something, ddstreet texts me, we discuss very quickly, ddstreet reports back?
[16:23] <rbasak> As he's the only one volunteering to do the driving anyway, I feel that he should have the authority to make decisions around the responsibility that he's taking.
[16:23] <mapreri> (easy to reach, except for ubuntu-dev-tools reviews, sorry !)
[16:23] <ddstreet> haha lol
[16:24] <rbasak> I would expect ddstreet to work with mapreri of course, but I'd like to put ddstreet in the position that he has the authority to resolve a disagreement if there is one.
[16:25] <mapreri> I'd say I'd be happy to place him on such place, I have enough disagreements to handle elsewhere anyway, and I trust him to be fair from the little I saw in the past.
[16:25] <ddstreet> how about in between regular meetings, any administrative decisions can be handled by me, with an expectation (but not requirement) that i try to reach the rest of the team for opinions
[16:25] <mapreri> having said this, I don't quite know what you might be referring to, rbasak.  what kind of situations are you imagining?
[16:25] <rbasak> mapreri: I want to avoid indecisiveness, which is IMHO part of what killed the old team.
[16:26] <mapreri> right.
[16:26] <mapreri> I don't think that could happen here anytime soon with this new 2-person team though.
[16:26] <rbasak> So things like "no I want to keep the status quo but I'm not going to help with delivering the team responsibilities under that status quo"
[16:26] <rbasak> I don't want that to block the team.
[16:26] <rbasak> Sure - hopefully that won't happen here.
[16:26] <mapreri> it's more likely that we just both dwindle down in motivation in a few years
[16:27] <ddstreet> ok so are we agreed to allow me (or current team admin/lead) to handle any administrative decisions?
[16:27] <rbasak> +1
[16:27] <mapreri> so yes, let me agree to give ddstreet ALL THE POWER
[16:27] <rbasak> And no objections, so it's done :)
[16:27] <mapreri> just try to get consensus if it's feasible, please.
[16:28] <rbasak> Of course
[16:28] <rbasak> The CoC mandates that
[16:28] <ddstreet> to be clear, i don't want to decide anything unilaterally, but i suspect 1) there won't really be a lot of stuff needed between meetings and 2) i'll talk to the team member(s) about everything when possible
[16:28] <mapreri> cool
[16:29] <rbasak> ddstreet: that is exactly the position I'd like you to take, so we're good :)
[16:29] <ddstreet> #agreed team lead/admin can make administrative decisions for the team, preferably with consultation with other team members
[16:29] <meetingology> AGREED: team lead/admin can make administrative decisions for the team, preferably with consultation with other team members
[16:29] <rbasak> Also #agreed ddstreet will, for now, be the sole team lead/admin
[16:29] <ddstreet> yes i suppose we should define the members
[16:30] <ddstreet> i'm the team lead, and the members are mapreri teward and, rbasak are you joining?
[16:30] <ddstreet> and possibly laney, if he does want to stay on/rejoin
[16:30] <rbasak> For now, I'm not joining, thanks. I'm just focused on trying to enable the people who _are_ volunteering.
[16:30] <ddstreet> ok so just me mapreri and teward
[16:31] <rbasak> And at that point I intend to step away.
[16:31] <mapreri> yeah, I can do with being able to say "I'm not in a lead position in this team" \o/  (which is what happens way too often in debian when I join a team -.-)
[16:31] <rbasak> :-)
[16:31] <ddstreet> #agreed current team lead will be ddstreet, current team members will be mapreri teward
[16:31] <meetingology> AGREED: current team lead will be ddstreet, current team members will be mapreri teward
[16:31] <rbasak> With the team revitalized and with a team lead defined, I think my job is done :-P
[16:31] <teward> this week's been chaotic so i mean :P
[16:31]  * mapreri notices that teward has been quite silent so fare in the meeting?
[16:32] <ddstreet> and no objections to allowing laney to rejoin if he would like to (since we don't yet have a process to join defined)?
[16:32] <mapreri> assuming he reads the minutes from the following discussion about the process, and he asks explicitly, yes, let's let him join.
[16:33] <mapreri> but so, should ddstreet add teward to the lp team?
[16:33] <ddstreet> #agreed to allow laney to rejoin the team if he requests to
[16:33] <meetingology> AGREED: to allow laney to rejoin the team if he requests to
[16:33] <rbasak> This is the point where I've stepped away. IMHO in a not voting away, it'd be useful if members committed to do whatever is defined that they should do, and otherwise they shouldn't be members. So maybe it doesn't really matter who is a member or not, for the time being, until that is defined or needs to be defined (eg. ACLs, or review roles, etc).
[16:34] <rbasak> in a not voting *way*
[16:34] <teward> mapreri: i've had nothing counter to any already stated items so far
[16:34] <teward> also still on via phone so insanely hard to type indepth replied
[16:34] <teward> replies*
[16:34] <mapreri> ah, that explains! (the phone)
[16:34] <teward> yup
[16:34] <ddstreet> my only concern with teward is i know you're strected super thin, being on several boards and heavy workload
[16:35] <teward> ddstreet: workload is getting a lot lighter at FT job.  Many large projects just finished and there's one rrmaining project on my radar of high importance
[16:35] <ddstreet> but personally i have no problem with you joining even if it's just for occasional work on the backports
[16:36] <teward> and the being on many teams and boards is why i stopped championing the redo of backports process
[16:36] <teward> hence "member of backporters" not leader/officer
[16:36] <ddstreet> ok
[16:37] <ddstreet> sounds fine to me - i did put 'agreed' on the current team above, though if anyone wants to have a vote of the people currently here i'm fine with that as well
[16:37] <ddstreet> otherwise i think we can let the new member list stand and continue
[16:38] <ddstreet> ok let's move to the meetings
[16:38] <ddstreet> #topic meeting schedule and location
[16:38] <mapreri> I'm also fine we teward.  let's just say, please all of us be sincere and drop out if you realize you can't contribute :)
[16:38] <mapreri> s/fine we/fine with/ (?)
[16:38] <ddstreet> yes very much agreed with that ^
[16:38] <teward> what mapreri said
[16:39] <mapreri> do we need regular meetings?
[16:39] <ddstreet> so for meetings, i assume we just hold them here?
[16:39] <ddstreet> long term, probably not, but i think at first it might be good to have some regular meetings
[16:39] <ddstreet> at least until we get going more smoothly
[16:39] <mapreri> alright
[16:40] <mapreri> (do we have a more in-topic irc channel?)
[16:40] <rbasak> Would it be worthwhile agreeing a rule that members inactive for (say) 2 years get removed? I suggest this now because it's socially easier to set this now, rather than when the problem arises again.
[16:40] <teward> we can probably get one made mapreri if needed
[16:40] <ddstreet> yeah we probably should have a irc channel
[16:40] <mapreri> teward: I'd ♥ to pls.  let's #ubuntu-backports @ libera?
[16:40] <rbasak> I suggest just using #ubuntu-devel until it becomes a problem.
[16:41] <rbasak> That helps with fostering involvement IMHO.
[16:41] <teward> rbasak: agreed to the rule provided theres procedure in place to handle if the lead is the AWOL one
[16:41] <mapreri> I'm fine as well.
[16:41] <ddstreet> rbasak i do agree with the expiration rule, but suggest we defer the specific details to a future meeting
[16:41] <rbasak> Sure
[16:41] <teward> ^^ that
[16:42] <mapreri> teward: procedure is: existing members vote and ask techboard to replace the lead.  easy.
[16:42] <mapreri> I think this can be part of the next meeting together with the definition of how to join
[16:43] <ddstreet> #action define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating
[16:43] <meetingology> ACTION: define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating
[16:43] <ddstreet> i think i forgot to add an action for defining the membership process?
[16:44] <ddstreet> #action define process/procedure for adding new members
[16:44] <meetingology> ACTION: define process/procedure for adding new members
[16:45] <ddstreet> so re: irc, should we use ubuntu-devel or try to get ubuntu-backports?
[16:45] <mapreri> let's keep with -devel for a while and see if we tend to have too many conversations (unlikely)
[16:45] <teward> we could use either, but lets keep with -devel for now
[16:45] <teward> unless we have a ton of things to discuss we should be OK with -devel
[16:46] <teward> (finally back at my computer, geez...)
[16:46]  * mapreri is just biased in collecting as many channels as possible (not visible in me anymore since the freenode move when I cleaned up the list…)
[16:46] <ddstreet> #agreed use #ubuntu-devel for normal team conversation
[16:46] <meetingology> AGREED: use #ubuntu-devel for normal team conversation
[16:46] <ddstreet> at least for now, can always change that later
[16:47] <ddstreet> for a schedule of regular meetings, i think at first we should probably try for fortnightly meetings? weekly meetings probably would be too much, but i think we do have stuff to go thru
[16:48] <ddstreet> i'm trying to get thru the administrative stuff, since we're not even at the real backports process yet and 45 minutes in :)
[16:49] <mapreri> ftr, I already have other fortnight meetings in the other cycle
[16:49] <mapreri> at the same time :P
[16:49] <ddstreet> well this balances it out perfectly then doesn't it xD
[16:49] <mapreri> so I'm good with fortnight, it'll just means I'll find myself a weekly cycle, one week in a channel, the other in another channel :3
[16:50] <ddstreet> let's start with fortnightly and re-evaluate it each following meeting, i'm sure we will get to the point where we can drop it down to monthly, or less
[16:50] <ddstreet> i'll schedule the next meeting in 2 weeks (after this one is over)
[16:50] <teward> +1
[16:51] <teward> ddstreet: send me an email reminder btw so i can add it in my schedule
[16:51] <mapreri> cool
[16:51] <ddstreet> #action schedule next meeting in 2 weeks, same location and time UTC
[16:51] <meetingology> ACTION: schedule next meeting in 2 weeks, same location and time UTC
[16:51] <mapreri> teward: are you in ubuntu-backports@luc right?  I guess ddstreet can call the meeting there.
[16:51] <teward> my recurrings for the stuff got thrown into the abyss during the work migration to MS365 so i don't have my recurring meetings anymore
[16:51] <teward> mapreri: probably not :p
[16:51] <mapreri> you should if you are joining :P
[16:51] <ddstreet> teward mapreri i'll create a google calendar event and include you both, if oyu use google calendar?
[16:51] <teward> no idea who's on that list anymore
[16:51] <ddstreet> well i mean you should get the invite even if you don't :)
[16:51] <teward> mapreri: true, i'll drop in.
[16:52] <mapreri> ddstreet: I use gcal yes  (and all my emails are associated to the google account, so it'll just come in whatever address you use)
[16:52] <rbasak> FWIW I think we've (you've) made great progress so far, and if it takes another couple of weeks to sort out the process stuff, that's absolutely fine.
[16:53] <rbasak> I think it's important to get the "constitutional" structure right, and that's done now, and I'm happy :)
[16:53] <ddstreet> thanks!
[16:53] <rbasak> I hope that this means that the previous problem won't recur.
[16:54] <ddstreet> so re: ubuntu-backports@luc, i just joined that (or requested to)...not sure if we need to do something to manage that list?
[16:54] <mapreri> for the ml mod, if that's needed, I'm happy to, since I already run `listadmin` regularly for another dozen MLs
[16:54] <rbasak> FWIW, I moderate enough Ubuntu MLs already that adding another won't make any difference to me. So if you'd like a moderator I'm happy to do that.
[16:54] <rbasak> Ah, snap :)
[16:54] <mapreri> who is jdong again u.u
[16:54] <ddstreet> i'll add an action to at least check if we need to take that list over
[16:55] <ddstreet> yeah i saw that too, no idea
[16:55] <ddstreet> #action take over ubuntu-backports@luc mailing list, or at least check if we need to manage it
[16:55] <meetingology> ACTION: take over ubuntu-backports@luc mailing list, or at least check if we need to manage it
[16:55] <mapreri> somebody who has been inactive long enough that all of their launchpad membership expired, apparently.
[16:55] <rbasak> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-backports lists an old member
[16:55] <rbasak> So I think you will need to take that over
[16:56] <mapreri> rbasak: do you have contacts with the lists.u.c admins?
[16:56] <mapreri> or is that canonical IS generically?
[16:56] <rbasak> Canonical IS can swap it for us.
[16:56] <rbasak> Right
[16:56] <mapreri> if you'd like I can write a ticket
[16:56] <rbasak> I expect ddstreet will be able to arrange it, but you have my TB hat support if you need it.
[16:56] <mapreri> or let ddstreet ask for it, as you wish.
[16:57] <ddstreet> mapreri if you are able to request the change then please do :)
[16:57] <mapreri> alright
[16:57] <ddstreet> #action mapreri request ownership change for ubuntu-backports@luc
[16:57] <meetingology> ACTION: mapreri request ownership change for ubuntu-backports@luc
[16:57] <mapreri> ta
[16:58] <mapreri> (shall I ask them to just put my email in the list owner field?)
[16:58] <mapreri> (more like, do you mind or should we do it differently?)
[16:58] <ddstreet> ok so i *think* we are all thru the administrative part...there's only 3 minutes left in the hour though, i'm thinking we move the 'real' discussion of the process to the next meeting? 1 hour meetings are usually my max
[16:58] <ddstreet> re: ml, i think it's fine to just put your email
[16:59] <mapreri> I think I should have dinner in 30-60 minutes, so I'm fine going for a little longer.  but process is likely going to take more than that anyway, so…
[16:59] <ddstreet> yeah, we could start but i dont think we would make it far
[17:00] <ddstreet> i propose we adjourn this meeting and defer remaining discussion to the next one?
[17:00] <ddstreet> i know we didn't really get the to good stuff yet
[17:00] <ddstreet> but meetings tend to start falling apart after an hour-ish i think :)
[17:01] <mapreri> incidentally, I was thinking of dumping my points of what the process should look like (or, what we need to discuss of them) in the agenda page, would you mind?  I suppose you could dump your ideas as well.
[17:01] <ddstreet> ok sounds like no objections at least
[17:01] <ddstreet> absolutely, please feel free to put it into the agenda, update it however you'd like
[17:02] <mapreri> then we are good
[17:02] <mapreri> [08 07:00:04 PM] <mapreri> ack.
[17:02] <mapreri> I saw this fell out due to a network glitch on my side ↑
[17:02] <mapreri> (I recovered your messages from my bouncer)
[17:02] <ddstreet> i was also going to edit the agenda page with summary of today's meeting, and next mtg date, etc, but i'll make sure not to step on your edits
[17:02] <mapreri> not going to do that now
[17:03] <mapreri> if you give me a whole 2 weeks to prepare for the next meeting, be sure I won't write 2 weeks in advance :P
[17:03] <ddstreet> ack, i'll try to have the page updated by my EOD
[17:03] <ddstreet> lol
[17:03] <ddstreet> yeah no need to hurry :)
[17:03] <rbasak> I need to run now too. Thank you ddstreet both for chairing but more importantly driving this whole revitalisation!
[17:03] <ddstreet> ok let's call this then, thanks for a great first mtg all!
[17:04] <ddstreet> #endmeeting
[17:04] <meetingology> Meeting ended at 17:04:02 UTC.  Minutes at https://new.ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2021/ubuntu-meeting.2021-09-08-16.05.moin.txt
[17:04] <ddstreet> thanks rbasak mapreri teward, see you next meeting!
[17:04] <mapreri> ddstreet: btw, if you need to contact me very quickly, usually (not always) writing me on telegram works best.  you find me there under the @mattia username :)
[17:04] <mapreri> rbasak: thanks for overseeing the transition! :)
[17:04] <teward> ty all
[17:04] <ddstreet> mapreri ok thanks good to know
[17:05] <ddstreet> o/
[17:08] <mapreri> \\o
[17:10] <mapreri> ddstreet: for your tracking purposes, RT#36831 is the ticket for the ML takeover.
[17:10] <ddstreet> thanks!


[18:09] <wxl> tsimonq2: might want to check this out and give it a sign off https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1668821
[22:32] <tsimonq2> wxl: kthx
[23:54] <tsimonq2> Grr where's Lyn?


[08:54] <bbabich> Howdy all - A brief question if I may...
[08:54] <bbabich> Updating config of interface linux OSes
[08:55] <bbabich> ie, enabling inet6 auto
[08:55] <bbabich> Is the only way via a runcmd?
[08:55] <bbabich> Anything native that you guys have run into?
[09:00] <bbabich> Hmm
[09:00] <bbabich> http://curtin.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/networking.html#subnet-ip
[13:51] <smoser> bbabich, so what you can do is put networking config with that inside
[13:51] <smoser> in the image.
[14:57] <smoser> bbabich, see the 'example config' at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/curtin/0.1.0~bzr479-0ubuntu1
[14:57] <smoser> bah
[14:57] <smoser> at
[14:57] <smoser> https://gist.github.com/smoser/45935e78bf1b21ee7696be083240aa0f
[14:57] <smoser> but if you do use that, you have to know the name (or mac) of eth0.  the "fallback" config is more dynamic as cloud-init picks what it views as "the first network device".
[15:45] <smoser> utlemming, http://paste.ubuntu.com/24268424/
[15:45] <smoser> rharper, take a read of ^ and let me know if you disagree with the suggestion. i think that is what we agreed to yesterday.
[15:45] <smoser> its not idea.
[15:45] <smoser> ideal
[15:46] <utlemming> smoser, rharper: that will result in the second nameserver overriding the first
[15:47] <rharper> yeah, resolvconf sucks
[15:47] <utlemming> I dug in on resolvconf, and you'll see `dns-nameservers <IP_ADDRESS>` as the final
[15:47] <smoser> well, in that case we'd get both. if you declare all on all.
[15:47] <rharper> yeah, we need to combine dns_* entries from all subnets, and put them in the network_state 'dns_*' fields
[15:48] <utlemming> okay, that's seems simple enough...but it feels icky
[15:48] <smoser> just looking at resolvconf man page it looks like it sort of supports this, but it would expect ENI to run resolvconf with a different IFACE.PROG for each of those stanzas.
[15:48] <rharper> smoser: the issue is resolvconf being called for each iface stanza, and collecting the dns- values and overwriting
[15:49] <rharper> smoser: right, but when the hook runs, IFACE=eth0 for each stanza
[15:49] <rharper> which clobbers subsequent calls
[15:49] <smoser> i could imagine ENI being extended to either let you declare the name to go to resolvconf or consistently create one (as long as it could do the same on takedown)
[15:49] <rharper> the best debugging is to dump the ENV that ifupdown sets when the 00resolvconf ifup hook it is called
[15:50] <rharper> there maybe other information that we could use in the hook (before we call resolvconf -a )
[15:51] <smoser> it looks like it does *sort* of handle it.
[15:51] <smoser> it uses "ADDRFAM"
[15:51] <smoser> so it would seem that one ipv4 and one ipv6 would work
[15:52] <smoser> right ?
[15:52] <utlemming> smoser: that is how I read it
[15:53] <utlemming> I'm wondering though if there is a simplier way, but I don't like it either: install a new parser in /etc/resolvconf/update-libc.d/ that handles it all
[15:58] <utlemming> smoser, rharper: what do you guys think of that approach?
[15:58] <utlemming> if our problem is that resolvconf is being obtuse, adding a hook that renders it right might be the cleanest
[15:59] <utlemming> both DNSMasq and Avahi use hooks to do that
[16:00] <rharper> utlemming: indeed; I've not looked at the hook but something needs to know about the multiple stanzas and indicate that the configs should be merged;  not sure how to handle when it should know it should replace the value vs. append/merge
[16:01] <smoser> well...
[16:01] <smoser> so here is one path.
[16:03] <smoser> i have a stanza like this:
[16:03] <smoser> iface eth0 inet6 dhcp
[16:03] <smoser>    smoser_name eth0_dhcp1
[16:03] <smoser> ifupdown puts 'smoser_name=<value>' into the environment of the hooks
[16:04] <smoser> err...
[16:04] <smoser> IF_SMOSER_NAME='eth0_dhcp1'
[16:05] <smoser> so we can just have resolvconf 'opt in' to honoring some variable to influence its name used in
[16:05] <smoser>  /etc/network/if-{down,up}.d/*resolvconf
[16:05] <rharper> smoser: heh
[16:06] <smoser> not joking.
[16:06] <rharper> in general, I think I'd like resolvconf to do the right thing without something like placeholder_for_resolvconf
[16:06] <smoser> we then, as the oracle rendering ENI just have to put sane names
[16:06] <rharper> which name field does resolvconf look at ?
[16:06] <smoser> resolvconf_name=eth0_addr1
[16:06] <rharper> IFACe
[16:06] <rharper> interesting
[16:06] <smoser> right. currently
[16:07] <smoser> look at /etc/network/if-up.d/000resolvconf
[16:07] <smoser> its fairly obvious
[16:07] <smoser> if we put somnething in there, then it gets into the environment at IF_<keyname>=<value>
[16:08] <utlemming> that's a lot cleaner
[16:09] <rharper> right, but this is a change to the resolvconf ifupdown hooks and requires coordination;
[16:09] <smoser> yes.
[16:09] <smoser> and SRU and such.
[16:09] <rharper> we;ll need to define the IF key we want, document and push to upstream resolvconf
[16:09] <smoser> but ends in something that can at least be made reliable
[16:09] <smoser> while what currently have is not
[16:09] <rharper> I think so, yes
[16:09] <utlemming> do we?
[16:10] <utlemming> add /etc/network/if-up.d/000cloudinit
[16:10] <utlemming> and provide it in the cloud-init sru
[16:10] <smoser> nah. we have to update resolvconf
[16:10] <utlemming> which exports the name of the IFACE
[16:10] <smoser> you dont have to export
[16:10] <smoser> ifupdown does that already
[16:10] <smoser> any "option" in a given stanza
[16:11] <smoser> gets exported as
[16:11] <utlemming> well, change the IFACE to the key that we want to use
[16:11] <rharper> how will we handle upgrades for eni's already rendered without the key ?
[16:11] <smoser>  IF_<option> with value VALUE
[16:12] <smoser> rharper, well, fixing it backwards is one thing. that isn't entirely required
[16:12] <smoser> (fwiw, this is a regression of us dropping the eth0:1
[16:12] <smoser> in eni)
[16:12] <rharper> yes
[16:13] <smoser> which we did to fix anohter bug :)
[16:13] <smoser> bug 1657940
[16:13] <smoser> commit 2de1c247e285cce0b25ab70abdc56ccd41019c27
[16:14] <rharper> indeed, ipv6 bonded bridged vlans and mixed v4 v6 are tons of fun
[16:15] <smoser> i never ceases to amaze me how unstable all of ENI is
[16:15] <rharper> heh, well, eni itself is stable, the ifupdown parsing/hooks are another story
[16:17] <smoser> well, attempting to actually create non-trivial networking
[16:17] <smoser> s/create/utilize/
[16:18] <rharper> bubblegum and string
[17:03] <paulmey> good morning
[17:03] <paulmey> I'm improving the udev rules in the Azure Linux agent (https://github.com/Azure/WALinuxAgent/pull/624)
[17:04] <paulmey> cloud-init has a similar set of udev rules that link the disks under /dev/disks/cloud/azure-*
[17:06] <paulmey> I'm happy to update that, but I've gotten some feedback that it might be nice to 'unify' both so that the disks are in the same path, no matter if the distro uses only the agent or only cloud-init or a combination of both
[17:07] <paulmey> It would make Azure Linux documentation a lot more straightforward with regards to this point
[17:07] <paulmey> Thoughts?
[17:15] <smoser> rharper, utlemming https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/ubuntu/+source/resolvconf/+git/resolvconf/+merge/321203
[17:15] <smoser> thats what i thikn that would look like
[17:15] <smoser> i dont like 'prog'
[17:15] <smoser> but that is what resolvconf calls that.
[17:19] <smoser> paulmey, i'm not sure what you're asking.
[17:30] <utlemming> smoser: that sane to me
[17:37] <rharper> smoser: resolvconf changes look good
[17:40] <smoser> i NACK'd my own review
[17:40] <smoser> :)
[17:40] <smoser> should rename those things and document
[17:40] <smoser> i'd like someone on foundations to have a think also
[17:41] <smoser> utlemming, i think most of those "dangerous" comments in the debian wiki are probably garbage
[17:41] <smoser> i suspect its no less dangerous (== broken) than any other ifupdown method
[17:41] <utlemming> probably
[17:42] <utlemming> I'll remove 'em
[17:44] <rharper> I think the most user-facing issue is muscle memory /docs on use of ifconfig;  however, the brave new world of iproute2 eventually needs to be embraced
[17:55] <utlemming> smoser: I'll get a MP to you this afternoon to implement this in CI later today
[17:58] <paulmey> smoser, sorry about that
[17:58] <paulmey> currently, cloud-init create udev links /dev/disk/cloud/azure-*
[17:59] <paulmey> the Azure linux agent creates links /dev/disk/azure/*
[17:59] <paulmey> currently, both create only links for the root and ephemeral resource disk
[18:00] <paulmey> my PR for the agent adds data disks (extra attached disks)
[18:00] <paulmey> with links like /dev/disk/azure/datadisks/lun9-part1
[18:01] <paulmey> (Azure only lets you specify the LUN on which a disk is attached, hence the usefulness of these links)
[18:02] <paulmey> The question I'm asking is whether we would like the azure agent and cloud-init to create links in the same location
[18:02] <paulmey> so that we can have simple documentation of where to easily identify data disks
[18:40] <smoser> rharper, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1675185
[18:40] <rharper> y
[18:40] <smoser> would it be acceptable to just do : if no 'apt', then just do nothing ?
[18:41] <rharper> not by default, no ?
[18:41] <rharper> my reading of the code was that apt_configure renders the template by default...
[18:41] <smoser> rharper, renders the  apt template
[18:41] <smoser> right?
[18:41] <smoser> apt sources.list
[18:41] <smoser> ah.
[18:41] <smoser> i meant
[18:42] <smoser> if not util.which('apt'):
[18:42] <rharper> oh
[18:42] <smoser>    LOG.debug("Nothing to do")
[18:42] <smoser>     return True
[18:42] <rharper> yeah, that works too, as long as you do it before calling lsb_release
[18:42] <rharper> too
[18:43] <smoser> i cant think of a reason that you'd want cloud-init to configure apt if you didnt have apt in its path.
[18:43] <rharper> it kinda feels like the distro object could check that (apt available) and drop any of the apt/dpkg related config stages
[18:43] <rharper> smoser: agreed
[18:43] <smoser> debconf selections
[18:43] <smoser> is there too
[18:43] <rharper> util.which('dpkg')
[18:43] <rharper> would be helpful filter too
[18:46] <smoser> i'll see what i can do around that.
[18:46] <rharper> cool, thanks
[19:12] <smoser> rharper, dpkg is installed in snappy. as well as debconf-set-selections
[19:12] <rharper> hrm
[19:12] <smoser> so.. something else.
[19:12] <rharper> uc16 has dpkg ?
[19:13] <rharper> I wonder why when they purge the database
[19:13] <rharper> debconf-set-selections also seems like an oversight if they purge the db
[19:13] <rharper> =(
[19:14] <rharper> you can test for /var/lib/dpkg
[19:14] <rharper> raharper@uc16-c2:~$ test -e /var/lib/dpkg; echo $?
[19:14] <rharper> 1
[19:14] <rharper> but that's not nice
[19:14] <rharper> and apt is present
[19:14] <rharper> but it's warning wrapper
[19:15] <rharper> raharper@uc16-c2:~$ which apt
[19:15] <rharper> /usr/local/bin/apt
[19:15] <rharper> raharper@uc16-c2:~$ cat `which apt`
[19:15] <rharper> #!/bin/sh
[19:15] <rharper> echo "Ubuntu Core does not use apt-get, see 'snap --help'!"
[19:17] <smoser> hm..
[19:18] <smoser> i just ran a lxc image
[19:18] <smoser> lxc launch images:ubuntu-core/16 uc16-1
[19:18] <smoser> $ lxc exec uc16-1 -- which apt-get || echo none
[19:18] <smoser> none
[19:28] <rharper> hrm
[19:28] <rharper> this is in my UC16 image i built but I'm not adding those in
[19:28] <rharper> I;ll boot the release image on cdimage next
[19:29] <rharper> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/16/stable/ubuntu-core-16-amd64.img.xz
[19:32] <rharper> smoser: you can 'snap download --stable core'; sudo unsquashfs core*.snap; ls -al squash-rootfs/usr/local/bin/apt
[19:32] <rharper> I'm not sure what snap is in your lxc though
[19:34] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24269663/
[19:34] <smoser> what pain
[19:52] <rharper> why is that different?
[19:55] <rharper> the latest "stable" has core version 16-2, rev 1441; which is the same as what's in 'snap download --stable core'
[19:57] <rharper> smoser: I think you want images:ubuntu-core/16/amd64
[20:02] <smoser> rharper, what did i get then ?
[20:02] <rharper> not sure, what's the csum on the lxc image ?
[20:03] <rharper> I'm still downloading that one at 161kb/s
[20:03] <rharper> images remote says it should be c4962bd2e706, and dated 20170318_19:01
[20:03] <rharper> I forget what lxd magic they do
[20:04] <rharper> but clearly what you loaded is really old
[20:06] <powersj> when I tried the lxd core16 images last Friday they seemed very old as well, even using -edge and -beta
[20:13] <smoser> :-(
[20:13] <rharper> I asked in #lxd
[20:13] <rharper> and thanks to my vpn, I'm getting the uk mirror
[20:14] <smoser> ah. i just asked in #lxc-dev
[20:15] <smoser> well that stinnks.
[20:15]  * rharper hopes it finishes before I have to unplug and relocate
[20:15] <smoser> i just assumed that would be a very useful way to use it.
[20:15] <rharper> Retrieving image: 88% (147.33kB/s)
[20:16] <rharper> try snap refresh core
[20:16] <rharper> it should download the latest core snap
[20:16] <rharper> then you can reboot
[20:16] <rharper> for profit
[20:16] <smoser> downloading at 10+M/s
[20:16] <smoser> :)
[20:17] <rharper> rub it in
[20:17] <rharper> vpn needs more speed
[20:17] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24269896/
[20:17] <rharper> y
[20:17] <rharper> now check apt
[20:17] <smoser> i have the button clicked that says "use vpn only for vpn traffic"
[20:17] <rharper> I do to
[20:18] <smoser> hm.
[20:18] <rharper> but the dns hijack
[20:18] <rharper> is how they check
[20:18] <smoser> still have dpkg
[20:18] <smoser> dont kjnow why
[20:18] <smoser> oh.
[20:18] <smoser> then i get by due to a proxy
[20:18] <smoser> i have lxd set to proxy
[20:19] <rharper> bbiab
[20:20] <smoser> i'll try to check in later, but i'm probably afk when you do
[20:30] <smoser> while i think it does make sense to not use apt if no apt-get or apt installed, i dont know that that iwll work. i think just disable that thingon is-snappy
[20:35] <rharper> smoser: so, looks like we'll need to deal with the older release w.r.t apt check
[20:36] <rharper> smoser: /var/lib/dpkg is missing in the release and the updated core snap
[20:38] <smoser> well, rpbably not
[20:38] <smoser> as cloud-init will never be installed into an old version
[20:38] <rharper> smoser: it may be reasonable to just allow it to be disabled via config; http://paste.ubuntu.com/24269987/
[20:38] <rharper> cloud-init is most definitly installed
[20:38] <rharper> just disabled by default (/etc/cloud/cloud-init.disabled)
[20:39] <rharper> someone could possible not want to use that config module and not want to modify the stage module list in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg
[20:39] <rharper> I've also thought about implementing a config stage filter so one could say dont-run-the-following-modules: apt-pipieline, apt-configure, etc
[20:40] <smoser> right.
[20:40] <smoser> i dont want to do disable via config without a generic
[20:40] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/321218
[20:40] <smoser> i have to run now. but that should work, right?
[20:41] <smoser> (note that apply_debconf_selections is inert by default)
[20:41] <rharper> that's foing to fail
[20:41] <rharper> pkgs_installed = util.get_installed_packages(target)
[20:41] <rharper> that's in apply_debconf_selections
[20:41] <rharper> we've no apt
[20:41] <smoser> it only does that if you gave it ifo
[20:42] <smoser>     selsets = cfg.get('debconf_selections')
[20:42] <smoser>     if not selsets:
[20:42] <smoser>         LOG.debug("debconf_selections was not set in config")
[20:42] <smoser>         return
[20:42] <smoser> i've got to go.
[20:42] <smoser> later.


[08:26] <huats> morning
[08:40] <baptistemm> salut huats
[08:40] <huats> hello baptistemm
[10:00] <pitti> ccheney: hello, how are you?
[10:00] <pitti> ccheney: were you planning an OO.o upload for bug 570058?
[10:00] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 570058 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "file overwrite error on 8.04 -> 10.04 upgrade (affects: 1) (heat: 41)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570058
[10:14] <ccheney> pitti: i believe i could fix that issue by itself as an SRU and try to get to the other potential SRU bugs at a later date unless you know of other high priority ones that need fixing asap?
[10:15] <ccheney> pitti: fixing a few of them won't take too much time away from my server work
[10:26] <pitti> ccheney: it's the only high-prio I'm aware of
[10:26] <pitti> ccheney: we'll enable upgrades from hardy at that time
[10:26] <pitti> that's why the "breaks upgrades" ones are a bit nasty
[10:26] <pitti> ccheney: so, fixing this sounds good
[10:30] <kenvandine> RAOF, 609073
[10:32] <RAOF> asac_: I uploaded omapfb this morning.  Once it builds, it should be installable again.
[10:47] <nessita> rodrigo_: ping
[10:48] <asac> RAOF: thx
[10:52] <ogra> seb128, i'm seeing g-p-m eating tons of ram on omap4 (seems it adds 1M per hour to the reserved memory) did you hear something like that on other arches ?
[10:53] <seb128> ogra, could be #569273
[10:53] <seb128> which seems to be a leak in the upstream code for menu refresh
[10:54] <seb128> which usually happens when you click on the icon only upstream but often with the indicator
[10:54] <ogra> hmm
[10:57] <ogra> seb128, thanks, looks pretty much like it
[10:57] <seb128> np
[11:12] <rodrigo_> nessita, pong
[11:24] <nessita> rodrigo_: hey there!
[11:24] <rodrigo_> hi nessita
[11:25] <nessita> rodrigo_: so, seb128 is "bitching" (just kidding! :-D) about the U1 bug (the one that opens a browser for a newly created user)
[11:25] <nessita> rodrigo_: do we have that bugfix ready?
[11:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, we want to create isos for GUADEC usb sticks
[11:25] <rodrigo_> nessita, yes, forgot to pass it to verterok yesterday
[11:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, but it sort of ruins the demo effect to have firefox running on session start this way ;-)
[11:26] <rodrigo_> seb128, will talk with verterok as soon as he wakes up
[11:26] <seb128> rodrigo_, hey btw ;-)
[11:26] <seb128> thanks
[11:26] <nessita> seb128: that would be after our lunch
[11:26] <rodrigo_> yes
[11:26] <seb128> ok
[13:11] <seb128> nessita, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-sso-client/+subscribe
[13:11] <nessita> seb128: thanks!
[13:11] <seb128> nessita, bug #608186
[13:11] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 608186 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-sso-login crashed with AttributeError in from_token_and_callback() (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 1708)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608186
[13:21] <seb128> nessita, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/syncdaemon.log.2010-07-23_13-07-59
[13:21]  * nessita looks
[13:24] <seb128> oauth-login.log
[13:24] <seb128> 2010-06-21 16:22:28,619:619.246959686 ubuntuone-login Starting Ubuntu One login manager version 1.2.1
[13:24] <seb128> nessita, and that as well
[13:24]  * nessita acks
[15:21] <rodrigo_> seb128, found the cause of the bug, fixing it
[15:22] <rodrigo_> seb128, but adding a patch to the package doesn't work, I added simple-patchsys to debian/rules, and then added the patch to debian/patches, but it's not being applied, any idea what am I missing?
[15:29] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, I needed to bzr add the patch, it seems ???
[15:31] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes
[15:32] <james_w> bug 521341
[15:32] <rodrigo_> ok
[15:32] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 521341 in bzr-builddeb "bzr builddeb should support --strict / --no-strict (affects: 1) (heat: 1)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521341
[15:32] <rodrigo_> seb128, package ready, waiting for nessita to fix the ubuntu-sso-client part
[15:32] <nessita> rodrigo_: can we have a new ubuntu-sso-client?
[15:43] <james_> is this the right place to ask about the LEGAL riping of DVDs in Ubuntu or can someone point me to the right channel if this isn't the place
[15:49] <james_> is this the right place to ask about the LEGAL riping of DVDs in Ubuntu or can someone point me to the right channel if this isn't the place
[15:49] <dobey> james_: #ubuntu is the right place to ask for help. i'm not sure any forum is the right place to ask about legal questions
[15:49] <dobey> james_: and you don't need to repeat your question every few minutes :)


[00:36] <bigjools> wallyworld_: are you review bitch today?
[00:36] <wallyworld_> bigjools: depends
[00:36] <bigjools> heh
[00:37] <bigjools> shame, I was just thinking about lunch at the P&W
[00:37] <wallyworld_> bigjools: i can do that a bit later
[00:37] <bigjools> allrighty then
[00:41] <rick_h_> hey, team bonding is only to occur over approve video conference devices :P
[00:46] <bigjools> rick_h_: we can stare at each other through beer glasses, does that count?
[00:46] <rick_h_> hah, as long as the beer glasses aren't too thick where you get *confused*
[01:33]  * StevenK stabs stacking more.
[01:40] <wallyworld_> wgrant: when specifying a maintainer for a distro, how often would someone choose a new team that is not in existence yet?
[01:43] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Somewhere between never and twice ever, I suspect.
[01:43] <wgrant> wallyworld_: For projects it's slightly more relevant, but only barely.
[01:44] <wgrant> I would not mourn its loss.
[01:44] <wallyworld_> wgrant: good. because the +reassign page for distros has "this is a new team" choice but the js picker will not have that
[02:06] <mwhudson> is that the generic "object reassignment" view?
[02:07] <mwhudson> because that one is pretty good evidence that generic views work well approximately never
[02:15] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: indeed it is
[02:59]  * wallyworld_ goes to lunch with bigjools
[04:14] <bigjools> I can't eat any more of wallyworld_
[04:15] <StevenK> Well, he is full of cholesterol and coffee.
[04:17] <StevenK> wgrant: You object to http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/993569/ ?
[04:31] <wgrant> StevenK: Probably.
[04:31] <wgrant> StevenK: For one thing it's racy.
[04:31] <wgrant> The existing stuff was already racy.
[04:31] <wgrant> But this is probably worse.
[04:32] <wgrant> And it's also not clearly the correct behaviour.
[04:36] <StevenK> wgrant: But we can't agree on the correct behaviour. :-(
[04:36] <wgrant> Right.
[04:37] <wgrant> Probably-buggy implementations of behaviour that hasn't yet been defined are fairly high on my schedule of things to object to.
[04:38] <StevenK> But you also object without that change, and you say that there is nothing to discuss.
[04:39] <wgrant> The two of us probably can't define what the correct behaviour should be, so just us discussing isn't going to be very helpful :()
[05:31] <StevenK> wgrant: There, that should make you slightly happier.
[06:55] <wallyworld_> StevenK: does your current work replace usages of transitively_private eg "if self.source_branch.transitively_private: do something"
[07:02] <StevenK> wallyworld_: I don't think so.
[07:02] <StevenK> Perhaps it should
[07:02] <StevenK> However, that branch is blocked
[07:03] <wallyworld_> StevenK: i am making branchcollection work with information_type. but tests are failing because stuff gets and sets private (and there's no hooks to sync info_type)
[07:03] <wallyworld_> StevenK: so i might add that in my branch then
[07:04] <StevenK> wallyworld_: So, I've discovered that an awful lot of code tests just set branch.explicitly_private directly. It's very annoying.
[07:04] <wallyworld_> StevenK: yes, indeed. i'm running into the same thing
[07:04] <wallyworld_> StevenK: i might introduce a mutator
[07:04] <StevenK> wallyworld_: That might work.
[07:05] <wallyworld_> StevenK: so if i do this stuff, it won't stomp on your work i hope
[07:05] <StevenK> wallyworld_: I'm going to have to redo part of the work anyway, due to the f&%&$*$^$$ stacking discussion
[07:05] <wgrant> wallyworld_: I think you basically have to wait for StevenK.
[07:05] <wgrant> Due to the stacking thing.
[07:06] <wallyworld_> what stacking thing?
[07:06] <wgrant> Neither branch can be deployed until that issue is resolved.
[07:06] <StevenK> wallyworld_: Read -dev
[07:06] <StevenK> wgrant: You saw it?
[07:06] <wgrant> Because information_type doesn't behave like transitively_private yet.
[07:06] <wgrant> Yes.
[07:06] <wallyworld_> wgrant: i can deploy my branch because info_type will just be mirroring transitively private
[07:06] <StevenK> wallyworld_: The "Branch information_type and stacking" novel on the -dev list, that is.
[07:07] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Only if you use a trigger.
[07:07] <wallyworld_> ah right. but behind on my email
[07:07] <StevenK> wallyworld_: You can not assume that, since transitively_private is done by trigger and information_type is not.
[07:07] <wgrant> Precisely.
[07:07] <wgrant> A mutator won't work
[07:07] <wgrant> Since it's done behind Python's back.
[07:07] <wallyworld_> sure. i haven't implemented anything yet
[07:08] <StevenK> Then don't, and wait for me.
[07:08] <wallyworld_> just finding failures in tests
[07:08] <wallyworld_> well, i've started the branchcollection work. but i'll park that
[07:08]  * wallyworld_ reads email
[07:08] <wgrant> Once we've solved that it should be pretty easy.
[07:08] <StevenK> I'll be auditing on Monday, anyway
[07:11] <wallyworld_> wgrant: StevenK: the branchcollectin stuff works, but tests fail due to info_type and private getting out of sync. so i'll come back to that after StevenK does his stuff
[07:12] <wgrant> Yup.
[07:12] <wgrant> Sounds like a plan.
[07:13] <wgrant> Night wallyworld_.
[07:13] <wallyworld_> wgrant: i'm still here. just not ocr :-)
[07:14] <wgrant> Ah
[07:55] <adeuring> good morning
[08:05] <czajkowski> morning
[09:26] <danilos> jelmer, hi, I see you claimed https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/kill-feedback-requests/+merge/106119: are there any questions you might have about it?
[09:32] <jelmer> danilos: hi
[09:32] <jelmer> danilos: yes, I started reviewing it yesterday. It seemed pretty straightforward
[09:33] <jelmer> danilos: I'll try and finish it today, will ping you if I have any questions.
[09:33] <danilos> jelmer, ok, thanks, just making sure you are not blocked waiting on me or anything :)
[09:33] <danilos> jelmer, sure things, thanks again
[09:34] <wgrant> danilos: That'll fail the person merge tests.
[09:35] <danilos> wgrant, it will? because of the DB fields still in?
[09:35] <wgrant> danilos: Person merge is required to have explicit handling for any person FK involved in a UNIQUE constraint.
[09:35] <wgrant> danilos: You've removed that, so it will complain.
[09:35] <wgrant> Normally you land a separate DB patch first which drops the FKs.
[09:36] <wgrant> Then you can drop the person merge bits and the rest of the code.
[09:36] <wgrant> And once that's deployed you can drop the table.
[09:36] <danilos> wgrant, right, I was hoping to be able to pass with only one DB patch :)
[09:36] <wgrant> Sadly not.
[09:36] <danilos> btw, what was the policy, a separate bug for each db-devel landing or can I just reuse the existing bug number?
[09:38] <wgrant> Reuse
[09:38] <danilos> ack, thanks
[09:43] <jamestunnicliffe> gmb: Mornin'. Now that your code is in https://code.launchpad.net/~dooferlad/launchpad/upcomingwork_show_incomplete_bp/+merge/105846, should I ask the on-call reviewer to take a look?
[09:44] <gmb> jamestunnicliffe: Yes, that sounds sane. Don't forget to mention danilos's branch w.r.t LoC. I'll have that reviewed this morning.
[09:44] <danilos> gmb, jelmer is on it already :)
[09:44] <gmb> danilos: Ah, cool beans.
[09:45]  * cjwatson looks very confused at dogfood.  I'm sure I've screwed something up, but I don't know what
[09:46] <cjwatson> dogfood is at r15273; https://dogfood.launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#packageset includes the new relative_build_score property; but:
[09:46] <cjwatson> $ lp-shell dogfood devel
[09:46] <cjwatson> ...
[09:46] <cjwatson> >>> core = lp.packagesets.getByName(name='core')
[09:46] <cjwatson> >>> core.relative_build_score
[09:46] <cjwatson> AttributeError: https://api.dogfood.launchpad.net/devel/package-sets/quantal/core object has no attribute 'relative_build_score'
[09:46] <wgrant> cjwatson: The WADL's probably old.
[09:46] <cjwatson> Anyone have any clue what I did wrong?
[09:46] <wgrant> Either your cached WADL, or the one on mawson
[09:47] <cjwatson> mawson seems to have it; how do I clear the local cache?
[09:48] <cjwatson> ah, let's try nuking this file ...
[09:48] <wgrant> Somewhere in ~/.launchpadlib
[09:49] <wgrant> It changes :/
[09:49] <cjwatson> got it, thanks
[09:49] <cjwatson> >>> core.relative_build_score
[09:49] <cjwatson> 0
[10:05] <danilos> wgrant, fwiw, the following makes person-merge tests pass for me: https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/bug-1000642-db/+merge/106343
[10:15] <wgrant> danilos: Great.
[10:18] <danilos> hum, branch is stuck at "updating branch"; I wonder if that's because I first pushed a branch with no changes compared to db-stable (forgot to commit the patch)
[10:18] <danilos> or if the branch scanner is just being slow (though, it has been pretty quick lately)
[10:25] <danilos> it updated, I guess it was just slow
[10:54] <danilos> jamestunnicliffe, I believe you'll need to request another review on https://code.launchpad.net/~dooferlad/launchpad/upcomingwork_show_incomplete_bp/+merge/105846
[10:55] <jamestunnicliffe> danilos: I know. I am just attempting to do some more testing, but having a bit of DB trouble.
[10:55] <danilos> jamestunnicliffe, ah, ok :)
[12:20] <danilos> jelmer, thanks for the review, we'll have to wait for the DB patch to land (stub has approved it) before we can land this
[12:27] <wallyworld_> sinzui: is there any reason why the distribution members field is not exported to the webservice  like mirror_admin (for example) is?
[12:40] <sinzui> wallyworld_, there was never a request to export it. The team does not have power
[12:49] <wallyworld_> sinzui: if it is not exported, the ajax picker can't work
[12:49] <sinzui> ha
[12:49] <sinzui> it can be exported
[12:50] <wallyworld_> so i would like to wrap the field definition inside exported()
[12:53] <wgrant> Well
[12:53] <wgrant> We could just drop the field instead.
[12:53] <wgrant> That would be my preference.
[12:58] <sinzui> wgrant, I want to keep it. I would like to add it projects. I would only consider removing it if someone ever implements project team hierarchies AKA project affiliations
[12:59] <wgrant> Perhaps.
[12:59] <wgrant> But the inconsistency with projects is confusing and silly.
[13:04] <sinzui> wgrant, then we give project a members field so that Lp knows that the project has members who are not in an Lp role with power
[13:16] <wgrant> sinzui: Can you look at bug #1001181?
[13:16] <_mup_> Bug #1001181: Bug, branch and merge proposal views have large amounts of horizontal overflow in Firefox <javascript> <regression> <ui> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001181 >
[13:20] <mrevell> jelmer, Is there a way to view code imports by VCS type? I can't find one, so I'm guessing not.
[13:20] <wgrant> https://code.launchpad.net/+code-imports
[13:20] <sinzui> wgrant, It is a regression. Something is  creating a very wide invisible something. I suspect help or a overlay which is visibility: hidden
[13:21] <sinzui> they still take up space
[13:21] <wgrant> sinzui: Yeah, that seems to be the issue.
[13:21] <wgrant> I don't know quite which element it is, though.
[13:21] <jelmer> mrevell: the code imports page has a way to list them by type
[13:21] <wgrant> Perhaps one of the new intermediate divs you added.
[13:22] <jelmer> mrevell: e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/+code-imports?field.review_status=&field.review_status-empty-marker=1&field.rcs_type=HG&field.rcs_type-empty-marker=1&submit=Submit
[13:22] <mrevell> jelmer, Erk, yes, sorry
[13:23] <sinzui> wgrant, I doubt that since the div would be following the existing rules. I think this might relate to the noscript branches I landed. I was going to remove the last Y.ua.ie hack fro our code today. I will solve this regression first
[13:23] <wgrant> sinzui: Unless there was a > rule or something. But yeah, could be noscript.
[13:31] <wallyworld> sinzui: i may have missed you reply - am i ok to export the distro members filed so the ajax picker can work?
[13:31] <sinzui> yes
[13:33] <wallyworld>  /msg NickServ identify cuteb89
[14:54] <jamestunnicliffe> Hi, hopefully someone with good Zope Template foo can help. I need to conditionally add a class to a <tbody> element. I am not finding anything useful in the docs.
[14:58] <jcsackett> jamestunnicliffe: i'm not TAL expert, but this *might* work. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/994317/
[14:58] <jcsackett> someone with better TAL foo could probably come up with something better, but it's a start.
[15:00] <benji> jcsackett and jamestunnicliffe: unfortunately that won't work because it's not well formed.  One second, let me see if I can remember the way to do that.
[15:00] <jcsackett> benji: doh, you're right.
[15:01] <benji> the best way is probably to just tal:define the class list conditionally and have a single <tbody> element that uses that definition
[15:02] <jamestunnicliffe> Sounds reasonable.
[17:37] <jamestunnicliffe> Hi, I see that the on call reviewer is offline. What is the protocal at this point? Assign the review to launchpad and let someone claim it/
[17:37] <jamestunnicliffe> ?
[17:39] <cjwatson> yeah
[17:39] <cjwatson> just leave the merge proposal at the defaults
[17:39] <jamestunnicliffe> thx
[20:36] <abentley> deryck: if around, could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/maza-lib/basic-auth/+merge/106465 ?
[20:50] <deryck> abentley, sure
[21:02] <deryck> abentley, looks good to me.  r=me
[21:03] <abentley> deryck: Thanks.
[21:03] <deryck> abentley, np.  and have a nice weekend!  I am about to step away now.
[21:03] <abentley> deryck: You too!
[21:06] <deryck> Thanks!
[22:06] <kendfinger> I have a Code import of the Chromium Git repo. it failed last time, and I am trying again as I see nothing wrong. I tried the SVN repo, but It imported , but I could not branch or browse the code! Anybody else have a problem like this?


[05:30] <hyperair> mlankhorst: nope, it's from running X
[05:31] <hyperair> mlankhorst: i think it was some odd lightdm screwup
[05:31] <hyperair> restarting lightdm fixed the issue.


[00:18] <Caesar> # service autofs status
[00:18] <Caesar> autofs stop/killed, process 3690
[00:18] <Caesar> # pgrep automount
[00:18] <Caesar> 3687
[00:19] <Caesar> I think Upstart is getting very confused :-(
[00:19] <Caesar> # service autofs stop
[00:19] <Caesar> stop: Job has already been stopped: autofs
[00:20] <Caesar> http://paste.ubuntu.com/389279/ has my Upstart job definition, which I'm trying to test
[00:26] <Caesar> (on Ubuntu 10.04)
[00:53] <Keybuk> Caesar: bug #406397
[00:56] <Caesar> Yarp
[00:58] <Keybuk> probably got confused following the pid chain and ended up with something that isn't actually autofs
[00:58] <Keybuk> like one of the fork parents
[01:07] <Caesar> Yeah
[01:07] <Caesar> "expect fork" after a clean boot fixed it
[01:12] <Keybuk> sweet
[01:12] <Keybuk> sorry about that one
[01:12] <Keybuk> I have a fix for it ;)
[01:12] <Keybuk> but it's a M one
[01:12] <Caesar> Doh
[01:12] <Caesar> It's pretty bad how busted things get in this situation
[01:13] <Caesar> start and stop just hang
[01:16] <Keybuk> yeah
[01:16] <Keybuk> it's because it's not supposed to be able to happen :p
[01:20] <Caesar> heh
[01:21] <Caesar> So what's currently doing my head in is the timing between the legacy init scripts and the upstart jobs
[01:22] <Caesar> Because a lot of the upstart jobs aren't runlevel dependent (maybe if I follow the dependency chain back I'll find that they are)
[01:23] <Keybuk> they're not supposed to be
[01:23] <Keybuk> there's a vague wishy-washy attempt to make runlevels go away :p
[01:23] <Caesar> heh
[01:23] <Keybuk> btw are you coming to the-woods-outside-Brussels?
[01:24] <Caesar> Sadly not, as my wife is due on May 24
[01:24] <Caesar> And I'm transferring off Goobuntu after my paternity leave, so I won't have a justification for coming to future UDSes
[01:24] <Keybuk> aww :-(  where are you transferring to?
[01:24] <Caesar> The security team
[01:25] <Keybuk> before you go, I'd really appreciate it if I could get a kind of "what Google would like from Upstart" mail
[01:25] <Keybuk> what you've found difficult about it
[01:25] <Keybuk> problems you've had
[01:25] <Keybuk> what you wish it did
[01:25] <Keybuk> what you wish it did better
[01:25] <Keybuk> etc.
[01:25] <Caesar> I can do that, particularly after we've deployed 10.04
[01:25] <Caesar> Right now I'm just having a hell of a time debugging the boot process. That's due to a combination of factors though
[01:26] <Keybuk> yeah, as I think I've talked to you before, I want Upstart to keep an event log
[01:27] <Keybuk> so after a boot you can get a log like
[01:27] <Keybuk> "the foo event happened, so I started apache, but I couldn't start squid yet because it was still waiting on apache"
[01:27] <Keybuk> "the started apache happened, so I started squid"
[01:27] <Caesar> That sounds perfect
[01:27] <Keybuk> and want that to be hooked up in a way that on a hung system, you can have upstart squirt it out to netconsole
[01:27] <Keybuk> "dump my brain"
[01:28] <Caesar> The startup event is the root of everything isn't it?
[01:30] <Keybuk> yes
[01:30] <Keybuk> though in later versions you may be able to do "on system starting" and "on system started"
[01:30] <Keybuk> as two separate bits
[01:31] <Caesar> Okay, so startup -> mountall -> (local-filesystems) -> (run level 2) -> rc 2
[01:31] <Caesar> Meanwhile, (local-filesystems) -> networking
[01:31] <Caesar> So it sounds like the rc 2 legacy init scripts are going to run in parallel with the network coming up
[01:49] <Caesar> Keybuk: something my cubemate was just lamenting is how restart isn't "restart or start"
[01:52] <Keybuk> Caesar: that's deliberate ;-)
[01:52] <Caesar> I thought as much
[01:52] <Caesar> Is there a "start or restart" equivalent?
[01:52] <Keybuk> I really hate how "/etc/init.d/foo restart" can start a service that wasn't running to begin with
[01:52] <Keybuk> stop foo ; start foo
[01:52] <Caesar> Right
[01:53] <Caesar> A bit more typing
[01:55] <sadmac> Keybuk: I thought there was a restart. moreover I thought it was slightly different than stop;start
[01:55] <sadmac> or was that for 1.0
[01:55] <Keybuk> there is a restart
[01:55] <Keybuk> and it is slightly different ;)
[01:56] <Keybuk> Caesar had just asked whether there was an alternative to it that wasn't slightly different to stop;start ;)
[02:17] <sadmac> Keybuk: I'd think the preference would be restart foo || start foo
[03:44] <Keybuk> that'd work too ;)
[04:32] <sadmac> Keybuk: I have an ubuntu user who says he would like to "bitch slap ubuntu for making it look like a friggin mac" and would like me to direct him to your art department. Might you be of assistance?
[05:37] <Keybuk> sadmac: if we want to be better than a Mac, first we have to catch up with them ;)
[05:38] <alphainu> ~_~
[13:56] <ion> I *wish* Ubuntu looked like MacOSX (except for the even more blurry fonts and a dock that takes up a huge amount of screen real estate). :-P They have very stylish things going on, such as no left/bottom/right borders in windows, as the shadows are enough to differentiate a window of a certain color from another similar one. I love that.
[16:32] <sadmac> much as I liked making brown jokes in the past, I don't much care what ubuntu looks like in the end.