[00:02] <ben_g> IT'S WORKING!
[00:02] <ben_g> Thanks a lot, it successfully booted and I have write permission again.
[00:03] <sarnold> is there a quick summary of what was wrong and what fixed it?
[00:04] <TheCr0w^> cool :)
[00:05] <ben_g> sarnold, some UUID was wrong in fstab, which caused the filesystem to become read-only
[00:05] <sarnold> ew
[00:05] <sarnold> that wuold have confused me to no end; I'm not real good with the uuid view of filesystems :)
[00:06] <TheCr0w^> it's because you have errors=remount-ro
[00:06] <TheCr0w^> (which is generally a good thing)
[00:45] <adrian_1908> Do I need Avahi for CUPS/printer discovery?
[00:46] <sarnold> I'm not positive, but that's my guess, yes
[00:49] <TheCr0w^> adrian_1908: no, unless you are sharing printers from your computer.
[00:49] <TheCr0w^> cups-browsed finds the printers, not avahi.
[01:15] <adrian_1908> TheCr0w^: And the protocols necessary for printer discovery do not require any of the `avahi-*` packages?
[01:17] <TheCr0w^> adrian_1908: nope.
[01:18] <TheCr0w^> avahi is a bonjour server, for other devices to find YOU.
[01:18] <adrian_1908> Ah ok, that makes sense!
[01:36] <derpadmin> struggled with bonjour lately
[01:36] <derpadmin> stupid chromecast
[01:36] <derpadmin> bonjour does not work across subnets
[01:36] <derpadmin> ended up passing an option to vlc
[01:37] <derpadmin> no need for bonjour... was more like goodbye :)
[02:23] <Rabid_Raven> hi guys, is there any way of restoring localization files? with sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales, it keeps telling me that whatever locale i try to add cannot be found
[02:25] <sarnold> Rabid_Raven: I wonder if debsums -ac will show you what's possibly missing from those packages.. it might be pretty noisy or it might not even help, but it's the first thing that comes to mind
[02:26] <Rabid_Raven> worth a try
[02:27] <Rabid_Raven> missing a ton of /usr/share/locale files
[02:28] <sarnold> cool; apt get install --reinstall those packages
[02:28] <Rabid_Raven> any way of reinstalling them from a startup disk or something?
[02:28] <TheCr0w^> you should be able to remove the package with nodeps
[02:28] <TheCr0w^> and then reinstall it
[02:28] <sarnold> no need to remove it either
[02:28] <sarnold> just the apt get install --reinstall should do the job; you shouldn't need to reboot or remove anything
[02:29] <sarnold> sigh apt-get install
[02:29] <TheCr0w^> true.
[02:29] <Rabid_Raven> i only really need the fr_CA locale either way
[02:29] <sarnold> I'm trying to learn how to use "apt install" after twenty-ish years of apt-get and I screw up often..
[02:30] <Rabid_Raven> so what would be the full command to --reinstall the locale files?
[02:30] <TheCr0w^> apt-get install --reinstall locales
[02:31] <TheCr0w^> odd files to go missing though..
[02:31] <Rabid_Raven> i figured that but didn't want to take a change
[02:31] <Rabid_Raven> chance
[02:31] <TheCr0w^> :)
[02:33] <Rabid_Raven> alright, time to log out and try it again
[02:33] <Rabid_Raven> after this video...
[02:33] <sarnold> Rabid_Raven: try the dpkg-reconfigure step first
[02:34] <TheCr0w^> :)
[02:36] <Rabid_Raven> sarnold: sounded good, did so. will restart just to be sure
[02:36] <Rabid_Raven> nothing against the english language but as a french teacher and francophile, i'd rather be in a french environment
[02:39] <Rabid_Raven> either way, thanks for all of your help. I hope to one day be so good with this os that i can fix everything myself :P)
[02:58] <Rabid_Raven> kde tells me, in the regional settings, that "there are no languages available on this system"
[02:58] <Rabid_Raven> there's got to be a way to fix that
[02:59] <TheCr0w^> did you reconfigure
[02:59] <TheCr0w^> or reinstall
[02:59] <Rabid_Raven> --reinstall
[03:00] <Rabid_Raven> basically, I did sudo apt-get install --reinstall locales
[03:00] <TheCr0w^> hmm. you may need to restart kde?
[03:00] <Rabid_Raven> i restarted the whole computer and even logged out a few times after trying a few things
[03:00] <TheCr0w^> strange.
[03:00] <Rabid_Raven> maybe we can --reinstall languages rather than locales?
[03:00] <Rabid_Raven> (even though that seems to be the same thing)
[03:01] <TheCr0w^> try the reconfigure.
[03:01] <Rabid_Raven> same apt line but --reconfigure?
[03:01] <Bashing-om> Rabid_Raven: This Help : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Locale/
[03:01] <TheCr0w^> dpkg-reconfigure locales
[03:01] <Rabid_Raven> Bashing-om: been there
[03:01] <Rabid_Raven> oh, i did that too
[03:02] <TheCr0w^> try reinstall these packages
[03:02] <Rabid_Raven> imma just install all languages possible
[03:02] <TheCr0w^> language-pack-en
[03:02] <TheCr0w^> language-pack-en-base
[03:02] <TheCr0w^> language-pack-kde-en
[03:02] <Rabid_Raven> i imagine fr_CA requires fr_FR
[03:03] <TheCr0w^> do you have language-pack-kde-fr
[03:03] <TheCr0w^> installed
[03:04] <Rabid_Raven> let's find out
[03:05] <Rabid_Raven> looks like it wasn't installed, go figure
[03:05] <Rabid_Raven> i installed in french too
[03:05] <TheCr0w^> oui oui
[03:06] <TheCr0w^> sacré bleu!
[03:06] <Rabid_Raven> time to try eveything
[03:17] <bigboy360> how do i search in the *most* general way for a piece of software on debian by keyword?
[03:17] <bigboy360> like say I dont know the ppa even and want to find a list
[03:19] <Bashing-om> bigboy360: My goto: https://packages.ubuntu.com/ .
[03:23] <rbasak> bigboy360: "apt search"?
[03:26] <bigboy360> rbasak, doesnt that just search through sources already listed in my sources.list?
[03:27] <rbasak> bigboy360: yes - isn't that what you're requesting?
[03:27] <rbasak> All (installable and functional) software in Debian should be available via that.
[03:28] <rbasak> Oh, sorry.
[03:29] <rbasak> You mean random third party sources publishing software _for_ Debian but aren't provided in Debian itself?
[03:29] <rbasak> I don't know of any good answer to that, sorry.
[03:30] <rbasak> I would strongly recommend against using random third party sources though. They break your system. Users tend not to notice until when they try upgrading to a new distro release, at which point they usually don't realise it was the installation of third party software that broke their systems.
[03:30] <rbasak> Third party repositories provided by apt cannot integrate with the system packaging system properly and are fundamentally broken.
[03:33] <Dregneel602> Running Ubuntu 18.04 fully up to date. Just installed openshot and handbrake via the Ubuntu Software and noticed I now have Blender and Inkscape installed which I NEVER installed myself. How does this happen?! Noticed this happen on 2 separate computers now. Anyone else notice this?
[03:34] <bigboy360> rbasak, what do you meant cnat integrate with system packaging
[03:34] <bigboy360> like cant be updated when you do sudo apt update?
[03:36] <TheCr0w^> Dregneel602: Blender and Inkscape are "dependencies" of openshot.
[03:36] <Dregneel602> @TheCr0w^, ah, didn't know that. Thanks!
[03:37] <Dregneel602> guess I better reinstall those 2 apps then lol
[03:37] <TheCr0w^> it's quite possible that whatever you need to do will continue to work.
[03:38] <rbasak> bigboy360: I mean that they cannot fully express dependency relationships like the distribution archive can, so that leads to broken packages following a distribution release upgrade. It's an arcane packaging point - summary is, it's impossible for a third party repository to provide third party software effectively without breaking a future distribution upgrade.
[03:38] <TheCr0w^> https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/openshot
[03:39] <TheCr0w^> yeah, blender and inkscape both there. so yes, probably do reinstall them :)
[03:40] <Dregneel602> @TheCr0w^, thanks. Will do. Don't want any issues with them
[03:43] <bigboy360> rbasak, what if it adds itself properly to sources.list
[03:43] <bigboy360> and all dependencies
[03:50] <rbasak> bigboy360: it can't. dpkg package relationships are only specified from one end (a different end depending on the specific relationship). There are some relationships that third party repositories cannot specify, such as "Breaks" in the distro to third party direction. This is what breaks upgrades. When not using third party repositories, these relationships can be specified fully by distribution
[03:50] <rbasak> maintainers, and these are essential for correct ordering when doing an upgrade.
[03:51] <rbasak> Even if third party repositories do everything right (they usually don't), it's not possible for them to ensure that future distribution release upgrades go smoothly
[03:51] <rbasak> Third party apt repositories are fundamentally a hack.
[03:51] <rbasak> apt treats them as if they are first party sources and as if the distribution fully expresses relationships with those third parties, but they don't.
[03:52] <rbasak> bigboy360: this is partly why snaps were invented - because third party apt repositories don't work.
[03:53] <rbasak> Well that's maybe a bit harsh. They do work initially, at least. Many people still use them.
[03:53] <rbasak> But generally using them inevitably breaks things.
[04:03] <bigboy360> rbasak, what do snaps do differently
[04:06] <rbasak> bigboy360: they run in a sandbox, like an Android or iOS app does. They don't have permission or access to break the system. They're designed specifically for third parties to ship software in a more secure and stable way directly to end users, whereas third party apt repositories have always been a hack.
[04:07] <bigboy360> i see
[04:07] <bigboy360> cool
[05:35] <lenny_lemon> any advice after upgrading to ubuntu 18.04 ?
[05:38] <lenny_lemon> I liked 16.04 more... i don't like that close window menu on other (windows) side...
[05:41] <Bashing-om> !info gnome-tweak-too bionic
[05:41] <Bashing-om> !info gnome-tweak-tool bionic
[05:42] <Bashing-om> lenny_lemon: ^^
[05:52] <lenny_lemon> Bashing-om, i'm not PRO... what you trying to tell me?   :)
[05:53] <Bashing-om> lenny_lemon: install the gnome-tweak-tool - one of the things it enables one to do is change the button positions.
[05:54] <lotuspsychje> lenny_lemon: the gnome tweak tool lets you tweak your ubuntu more
[05:54] <lenny_lemon> :)))
[05:54] <lenny_lemon> thanks
[05:54] <lotuspsychje> lenny_lemon: and see also dconf-editor pretty handy aswell if you like tweaks
[05:54] <lenny_lemon> by sudo apt install gnome-tweak-tool ?
[05:55] <Bashing-om> lenny_lemon: Uh Huh :D
[05:59] <lenny_lemon> nice... i got it right now... on the left...
[05:59] <lenny_lemon> on the right side... the left one... hahahahh
[06:00] <Bashing-om> lenny_lemon: :D
[06:00] <lenny_lemon> common for islands... left is the right one...
[06:01] <lenny_lemon> after 7hrs upgrading can go sleep now... :)
[06:01] <lenny_lemon> will tweak and play later... thanks again... Bashing-om lotuspsychje
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> happy tweakin
[06:02] <lenny_lemon> :D
[06:02] <lenny_lemon> i just have installed tor but it does not run...
[06:02] <lenny_lemon> what can it be?
[06:04] <lenny_lemon> ok, don't worry... i'm not gonna spend another hour... got enough...
[06:07] <TheCr0w^> :)
[07:09] <simon87> hello i've like 1500 errors like this -> file '7' write error: Read-only file system [v8.32.0 try http://www.rsyslog.com/e/2027 ]
[07:09] <simon87> what does it means?
[07:16] <TheCr0w^> simon87: your file system has gone read only, possibly due to errors.
[07:17] <TheCr0w^> you may have some underlying hardware issue with your disk, but there are a few possible reasons.
[07:18] <simon87> i've changed my hdd with an ssd
[07:18] <TheCr0w^> for the root filesystem?
[07:19] <simon87> yes, the whole system is on the ssd
[07:19] <TheCr0w^> ok. you may have the same issue someone else had earlier.
[07:19] <TheCr0w^> give me an output of blkid, mount and cat /etc/fstab
[07:19] <TheCr0w^> https://paste.ubuntu.com/
[07:20] <simon87> wait, please; what ive to mount?
[07:20] <TheCr0w^> just run these commands
[07:21] <TheCr0w^> blkid
[07:21] <TheCr0w^> cat /etc/fstab
[07:21] <TheCr0w^> mount
[07:21] <TheCr0w^> and paste the output into https://paste.ubuntu.com/ and send me the link.
[07:23] <simon87> TheCr0w^ , https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/HFVHtrhsDY/
[07:24] <simon87> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qKDWNZ5rPw/
[07:24] <arunjain> getting a error during build
[07:25] <TheCr0w^> simon87: blkid please
[07:26] <simon87> TheCr0w^ , it returns nothing
[07:26] <TheCr0w^> can't be.
[07:26] <TheCr0w^> are you root
[07:26] <simon87> no, im not
[07:26] <TheCr0w^> please go to root and run blkid
[07:27] <TheCr0w^> sudo su -
[07:28] <simon87> TheCr0w^ , https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VVdrm52cnb/
[07:30] <TheCr0w^> simon87: run tune2fs -l /dev/sda2
[07:30] <simon87> with #?
[07:30] <TheCr0w^> yes
[07:30] <TheCr0w^> as root
[07:32] <simon87> TheCr0w^ , https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gFNXq2KBj3/
[07:32] <TheCr0w^> ok, your file system has some errors, you need to reboot into rescue mode and run e2fsck -f /dev/sda2
[07:34] <simon87> ok then i've to show you output or simething else when ill be in rescue mode? (just to know if i've to take a photo to the screen)
[07:34] <TheCr0w^> https://www.ostechnix.com/how-to-boot-into-rescue-mode-or-emergency-mode-in-ubuntu-18-04/
[07:36] <simon87> TheCr0w^, please, read above
[07:36] <TheCr0w^> you need to follow the emergency mode instructions
[07:37] <TheCr0w^> you don't really need to show me.. you will be asked to repair some errors, and you should say yes to all the prompts.
[07:38] <TheCr0w^> this does not explain why the errors were caused however. have you powered the machine off unexpectedly?
[07:39] <TheCr0w^> reminded, you need EMERGENCY mode not rescue mode.
[07:41] <simon87> yes several times if i've to say the truth because my system blocked for several times with no apparently errors; i think i get some errors with usb buses but i dont really know what cause that crashes
[07:41] <TheCr0w^> ok, well this increases the chances of file system errors.
[07:42] <TheCr0w^> when these are detected, for your data's saftey writing to the disk is disabled.
[07:42] <TheCr0w^> I would recommend that you update your kernel to the latest if you have not done so already, after we get the partition writable again.
[07:45] <simon87> ok, so i've to boot in emergency and repair the filesystem, then update kernel?
[07:45] <simon87> 5.0.0-36-genericUbuntu 19.04 \n \l
[07:45] <simon87> this is my kernel and ubuntu version
[07:50] <simon87> TheCr0w^ , im going to repair filesystem, then ill be back here, really thank you for all of this, brb
[08:18] <simon87> TheCr0w^ , i booted with Emergency mode editing grub options, but i dont think that i got the right screen cause it opened up (initramfs)
[08:19] <TheCr0w^> possibly not. you can just boot from the live cd, may be easier for you.
[08:22] <simon87> In the grub screen of live cd i go in "Check disc for defects"?
[08:22] <TheCr0w^> yep you can do that.
[08:22] <TheCr0w^> actually, no, that's checking the actual media.
[08:22] <TheCr0w^> sorry.
[08:22] <TheCr0w^> no, you need to boot from the livecd, and get a root terminal.
[08:23] <simon87> He's checking the actual media, i started It lol
[08:23] <simon87> In going to reboot
[08:23] <simon87> it*
[08:24] <TheCr0w^> I think you can cancel it
[08:24] <TheCr0w^> or yes, just reboot, and boot the livecd.
[08:25] <simon87> Yes, i did it; now im going to get root terminal
[08:25] <simon87> I got It
[08:25] <TheCr0w^> ok
[08:25] <TheCr0w^> e2fsck -f /dev/sda2
[08:27] <simon87> Ok done, fixed all errors
[08:28] <simon87> Now i have to update the kernel??
[08:29] <TheCr0w^> reboot
[08:30] <TheCr0w^> but, yes, I would recommend, apply all updates.
[08:33] <simon87> Ok, ill do it, thank you for all of this. Ill be back with the logs if the error will occur again. Thanks
[08:33] <TheCr0w^> no problem, good luck.
[09:00] <ZaZaGX> hi
[09:04] <auctus> in older ubuntus it was always easy to click the network thing and then choose "share" or "link local" or whatever, in 18 i cant find any of that
[09:04] <auctus> so i could e.g. share wifi from a laptop to a desktop, or connect to my raspberry pi without a router, etc
[10:45] <dbugger> Hello, Good morning everyone
[10:47] <dbugger> I have a weird problem. I have an SSD in my PC with Windows 10. I have another one that I am using to install 19.10. No matter how many times I install it, the GRUB will never get created. When I log in it goes sirectly to Ubuntu. If I want to log into Windows, I have to do it through the BIOS. Why could this be?
[11:37] <simon87> TheCr0w^ , it's crashed again damn
[11:37] <simon87> how can i show you the last important log that can i view with ubuntu log tool?
[11:40] <simon87> usb 2-8: device descriptor read/64, error -71 , a lot of these errors; i think the crash happens for some usb 2.0 port problem; i think ill cut off that damn port
[11:45] <leden> auctus, run 'nm-connection-editor' in terminal from there you can set your network
[11:49] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:06] <simon87> these crashes begin to make me mad. damn.
[12:06] <TheCr0w^> you may have a hardware issue.
[12:08] <simon87> ok, probably is the usb port 2.0 (this laptop has two 3.0 and one 2.0); how can i disable 2.0? is there a way?
[12:10] <simon87> on that board where is the usb 2.0 there are a card reader and headphones too;can the problem be the whole board, TheCr0w^
[12:10] <simon87> ?
[12:19] <Sinistrad> simon87: When does it crash? At boot? If so, and you know it is USB, you might be able to disable in BIOS, or whatever the cool kids call it today.
[12:20] <simon87> Sinistrad, no, when it's running like after one hour or five minutes, it's the same
[12:21] <simon87> windows manager crashes and i can access to nothing in the system so i've to turn off it from the button
[12:21] <simon87> Sinistrad, so can i disable the whole board from the BIOS?
[12:22] <simon87> I dont use it, the sound card is dead too, so i dont need headphones
[12:22] <Sinistrad> simon87: For more troubleshooting, if it is only locking up your display, you might be able to have ssh open and log in from another computer and check logs to see what is going on.
[12:23] <Sinistrad> simon87: If you get ssh going and can log in remotely before the crash and not so after the crash, then you've definitely had the kernel freak out.
[12:25] <Sinistrad> simon87: My little one is calling me. Maybe that will give food for thought
[12:25] <simon87> Sinistrad, so I've to login remotely with ssh and wait until crash come up
[12:25] <Sinistrad> simon87: Well, just make sure you have ssh answering before-hand
[12:25] <Sinistrad> simon87: Not saying you have to keep it connected =)
[12:26] <Sinistrad> simon87: After the crash, log in if you can, then poke around in /var/log to see if anything is obvious.
[12:26] <simon87> okok i got it
[12:27] <Sinistrad> simon87: If it is only the display, maybe Xorg logs could give you some clues as to why the display locked up
[12:27] <simon87> thank you
[12:27] <Sinistrad> simon87: You're welcome. I hope it helps
[12:28] <simon87> I hope too :)  see you l8r
[12:32] <baqir> how to add pppoe network
[12:43] <baqir> anyone to help?
[12:45] <baqir> how to add pppoe connection?
[12:49] <Sinistrad> baqir: Here is something that I found: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ADSLPPPoE
[12:50] <Sinistrad> baqir: Report back if that article is not helpful.
[13:05] <lenny_lemon> after upgrading to ubuntu 18.04 I noticed increased temperature in processor...
[13:14] <telboon> anyone else facing issues where certain Wifi network doesn't show their encryption on KDE Network Manager?
[13:21] <telboon> the same SSID shows their wifi security on nmcli, but not nmgui through KDE
[14:02] <UndefinedIsNotAF> Hi
[14:17] <Ignacy> I'm trying to configure postfix to use a password hash (.db file) to authenticate with 3rd party smpt provider. I've looked at hash created with postmap command, and except for hash it still contains cleartext password at the end of the hash. Is that supposed to be like that? If someone is to get root access to the machine he can still read my 3rd party mail provider password.
[14:27] <ryuo> Ignacy: ... password hashs don't work when you have to provide the password to an external party for authentication purposes.
[14:27] <ryuo> Ignacy: they're only good for when you only need to store them for your authentication purposes.
[14:28] <ryuo> Ignacy: welcome to the limitations of encyption.
[14:29] <ryuo> automated tools rarely have a good way to store authentication secrets; you usually have to store them in a secure manner but can't eliminate disclosure entirely.
[14:29] <ryuo> usually this means putting them in a file that most cannot access.
[14:29] <ryuo> not storing it in revision control system
[14:29] <ryuo> etc
[14:36] <Ignacy> thank you ryuo. Now I understand. The password hash has mode 0600, while other files in postfix directory are 644. I was thinking about it since yesterday :D
[14:36] <rdrey> hey everyone. I'm experimenting with building an ubuntu kernel with patches. Is this still the best page in the docs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel I'm running an Ubuntu Fossa daily build that's a day or two old.
[14:36] <leftyfb> !ubuntu+1 rdrey
[14:37] <leftyfb> !ubuntu+1 | rdrey
[14:37] <rdrey> ah, thanks
[14:37] <rdrey> will move over there
[14:39] <raidghost> ioria: The graphical card issue is back.
[14:41] <raidghost> I did some rsync and did let the laptop stay on over night. and the annyoing ugly screencolor did welcome me. It was a less happy moment.
[15:40] <gyuma1etyr> hi! I have 18.04 LTS
[15:40] <gyuma1etyr> Python3 is installed by default
[15:40] <gyuma1etyr> Is python2.7 also installed?
[15:41] <gyuma1etyr> (by default, after install)?
[15:42] <gyuma1etyr> I don't need it, but was just curious if Python2 is still installed or not
[15:50] <gyuma1etyr> anyone an idea?
[15:51] <bindi> did you try the command "python2"
[15:51] <bindi> or 'dpkg -l | grep python' to get the list of installed packages matching python
[15:53] <gyuma1etyr> bindi, i tried python2 but working
[15:53] <gyuma1etyr> so i thought it's not installed
[15:53] <gyuma1etyr> but this seems strange as of 2018
[15:53] <gyuma1etyr> even nowadays debian 10 still has py2.7 has requirement...
[15:53] <rajivmars>  today after installing ubuntu, i was trying to install ubuntu-restricted-extras, but while installing corefonts it displays thjis error https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Hs5fX2nqww/
[15:53] <gyuma1etyr> bindi, i tried python2 but *not* working
[15:54] <gyuma1etyr> so what do you think bindi?
[15:54] <rajivmars> how do i solve this. i need ms corefonts for my project.
[15:55] <bindi> gyuma1etyr: if you were just curious, i gave the tools to fulfill your curiosity :P
[15:55] <bindi> they're getting rid of python2 bit by bit
[15:57] <gyuma1etyr> bindi, dkpg -l |grep python shows only libpython2.7 and such things
[15:57] <gyuma1etyr> but not python2 python2.7
[15:57] <gyuma1etyr> so only some libs are insalled but not the actual python2 inerpreter i think?
[15:57] <bindi> probably compatibility stuff
[15:58] <martiansoul> Hi. Does anyone know of any channel on IRC where I can ask theoretical Object oriented programming questions?
[15:59] <bindi> martiansoul: try /msg alis list
[15:59] <bindi> martiansoul: actually /msg alis help list
[16:01] <martiansoul> bindi: thanks!
[16:02] <explore> thanks for all the help guys!
[16:16] <ioria> gyuma1etyr, python2.7 is included in the iso, but removed after the installation; you can check the 18.04 release notes : 'Python 2 is no longer installed by default. Python 3 has been updated to 3.6. This is the last LTS release to include Python 2 in main.'
[16:16] <gyuma1etyr> ioria, good news!
[16:16] <gyuma1etyr> it will force me to move on to py3 now ;)
[16:17] <ioria> gyuma1etyr, ok, python2.7 is still present in the 18.04 repo
[16:19] <rajivmars> anyone please.
[16:20] <ioria> rajivmars, i guess you need to wait some time and try again or install manually the .deb
[16:21] <rajivmars> ok
[16:56] <martiansoul> what is udp echo port?
[17:03] <Fuchs> martiansoul: 7, as with tcp
[17:04] <martiansoul> Fuchs: i meant the theory of it. I couldn't really understand it reading on wikipedia
[17:04] <Fuchs> martiansoul: to echo back exactly what you are sending it
[17:05] <Fuchs> it's mostly meant for tests
[17:05] <Fuchs> e.g. if you think that something might modify or drop some of your packets on the way to wherever that echo service is running
[17:06] <Fuchs> how did you stumble upon it / why the question?
[17:06] <Fuchs> (tl;dr: if you don't know what it is, you most likely don't want / need it)
[17:07] <bindi> and probably not at all related to #ubuntu
[17:08] <martiansoul> Fuchs: I was reading a research paper on caching.
[17:08] <Fuchs> maybe they have an ubuntu box with it enabled or want to enable it
[17:08] <Fuchs> oh, okay, then you probably want ##networking
[17:08] <martiansoul> Fuchs: Okay. Thanks!
[17:08] <Fuchs> you're welcome :)
[17:16] <gijoe3k> Hello there. Quick question, I realize that is could be strictly a Xubuntu thing(appreciate your patience) but......just got a fresh install of Xubuntu 19.10 done. Did a Apt update...all the other repos updated fine except this one:
[17:16] <gijoe3k> Err:1 http://mirrors.xtom.com/ubuntu eoan InRelease Clearsigned file isn't valid, got 'NOSPLIT' (does the network require authentication?)
[17:17] <gijoe3k> Any direction or ideas on how to get rid of it?
[17:36] <leden> qijoe3k, cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999
[17:46] <leden> qijoe3k, cat and paste url that will generate
[17:47] <gijoe3k> 10/4
[17:52] <gijoe3k> https://termbin.com/zjao
[18:08] <ptux> hi all. i've a 2nd hd installed on my pc. it seems to be mounted in ro mode, but i cannot find it in /etc/fstab.
[18:09] <ptux> i would like to know how to mount it at the boot in rw mode, in a chosen mountpoint (actualiy it is: /media/ptux/<averylongstring>)
[18:11] <pragmaticenigma> ptux, when you add a new drive, you have to manually add it to fstab with the mount instructions
[18:12] <ptux> pragmaticenigma, but does it mantains the setting on reboot or it is overwritten?
[18:14] <pragmaticenigma> ptux, /etc/fstab is a configuration file. It does not automatically change
[18:19] <leden> qijoe3k, find Settings Manager → Software & Updates and follow steps https://i.stack.imgur.com/gI5Jp.jpg
[18:20] <ptux> pragmaticenigma, so could be right add in fstab: /dev/sdb1 /mnt/storage ext4 defaults,utf8,umask=0087,gid=64?
[18:22] <ptux> *umask=007
[18:24] <leden> qijoe3k, you need to select another mirror
[18:25] <gijoe3k> @leden, gotcha. much appreciated. Will do it here in a minute.
[19:02] <akk> Does ubuntu not have a package for unetbootin? (19.10)
[19:04] <pragmaticenigma> unetbootin is not recommended anymore akk
[19:05] <akk> No? I want to make a bootable FreeDOS stick and have seen a couple recommendations that unetbootin is the easiest way.
[19:05] <akk> Is there a better way?
[19:05] <akk> (I need to install a firmware update from lenovo ... I've been struggling with this for three solid days, I'm getting desperate to find a way)
[19:07] <pragmaticenigma> akk, unetbootin is not provided in the official repos. You can obtain it from a 3rd party maintained repo
[19:07] <pragmaticenigma> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick#Unetbootin
[19:07] <pragmaticenigma> https://launchpad.net/~gezakovacs/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[19:08] <akk> Thanks, pragmaticenigma
[19:09] <pragmaticenigma> akk, I do note that the official documentation does mention unetbootin... I might be confusing it with a different tool. Personally I use etcher.io, but that a topic for another time. I wish you luck with your BIOS update
[19:10] <akk> Thanks! Supposedly unetbootin knows where to download freedos images ... the freedos site itself only has installer images, not runnable ones.
[19:10] <akk> I confess to being skeptical that freedos will be enough to run this installer, but it's worth a try.
[19:11] <pragmaticenigma> akk, freedos is continuously updated. the firmware updaters like that typically just need a DOS environment to execute their binary, after that the application goes into a lower level mode to access what it needs directly
[19:13] <akk> I hope! I tried several minimal windows things, like booting from a win 10 installer, and kept getting messages like "the image file is valid, but is for a machine type other than the current machine".
[19:13] <akk> It's supposedly a 64-bit windows binary but I haven't found any way on Linux to check that.
[19:14] <Ben64> have you tried 'file'
[19:14] <akk> So far unetbootin isn't looking promising, it doesn't run, X errors (probably related to having to run as root).
[19:15] <slrplx> Heya. I am unsuccesfully trying to set my ultrawide 34" Iiyama monitor to its native 3440x1440 resolution. It's plugged into a recent Lenovo X1 Carbon via HDMI. `hwinfo --monitor` recognizes the monitor and confirms that 3440x1440 is its maximum resolution. How do I proceed?
[19:15] <pragmaticenigma> Ben64, can you expand on that idea?
[19:15] <Ben64> it's a command. file <file>
[19:15] <Ben64> tells you about said file
[19:15] <pragmaticenigma> Ben64, I don't see how that would help here
 It's supposedly a 64-bit windows binary but I haven't found any way on Linux to check that.
[19:18] <akk> Ben64, n2hgc06w.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows -- does the PE32 mean it's 32-bit, not 64?
[19:20] <akk> I did run file earlier, but I don't know how to read that line, file is much clearer with Linux apps about whether they're 32- or 64-bit.
[19:21] <Ben64> 80386 means 32bit
[19:21] <akk> Ah! Interesting, so lenovo is fibbing about it being for 64-bit. That may explain some of the things I tried that didn't work.
[19:21] <Ben64> well anything that can run 64bit windows stuff can also run 32bit
[19:22] <akk> Except the windows installer, turns out. :)
[19:22] <Ben64> the installer can't really run things
[19:23] <akk> Oh well, have to run off for a bit, will have to fight with unetbootin later. Thanks for the info, Ben64 and pragmaticenigma!
[19:49] <albech> Hi all. Struggling a little with having rclone ignore lost+found, cause syncs fail when trying to sync and that file is present in the folder. I have tried to use the filters, but no luck.
[19:52] <albech> it works if running as root, since root obviously can read lost+found, but i am not planning on running rclone as root for my purpose. Could move all my files to a sub-folder, but its more like a workaround.
[19:56] <ioria> albech, i don't use rclone, but the filter should work ; what's the exact cmd issued ?
[19:58] <_Sean_> hi all - sorry for google worthy question but my google is failing tonight-  trying to remember how to prompt for hostname input (ie.  NOT string) in a preseed and I am failing hard (18.04 dell re-jigged install/recovery)
[20:01] <slrplx> What would be a good place to ask my previous question about ultrawide monitor resolution in Ubuntu?
[20:02] <guntbert> slrplx: this channel is a good place for that question - just maybe not right now :-)
[20:04] <slrplx> Roger, I'll ask again later
[20:24] <_Sean_> anyone here ever preseed
[20:25] <gunix_> _Seen_: just exactly I'm look for it :)
[20:26] <_Sean_> I think thanks, not exactly sure what ye mean :)
[20:26] <gunix_> I found some stuff in Turkish. https://farukomercakmak.gitlab.io/post/2019-09-18-pardus-preseed-iso-olusturma/
[20:26] <_Sean_> perfect, checking it out now :)
[20:26] <_Sean_> thank you
[20:26] <gunix_> np
[20:27] <_Sean_> in there - hostname is still string and seen - where do you see the variable for human input?
[20:28] <slrplx> Heya. I am unsuccesfully trying to set my ultrawide 34" Iiyama monitor to its native 3440x1440 resolution. It's plugged into a recent Lenovo X1 Carbon via HDMI. `hwinfo --monitor` recognizes the monitor and confirms that 3440x1440 is its maximum resolution. How do I proceed?
[20:30] <oerheks> hidpi screens want DP displayport, hdmi is too slow?
[20:31] <slrplx> Possibly
[20:31] <ioria> _Sean_, but old thread  : https://askubuntu.com/questions/111727/how-do-i-get-prompted-for-a-hostname-in-a-preseed
[20:32] <_Sean_> heh, i am gonna kick something if it was that easy
[20:32] <_Sean_> thanks ioria - will muck with a new iso tomorrow and give that a try
[20:32] <ioria> ok
[20:37] <slrplx> oerheks, the monitor works
[20:37] <gunix_> is it possible to add any .deb package with preseed? Just an example: I want to install "pale moon" browser in os installation progress.
[20:38] <slrplx> At a respectable 2560x1440
[20:38] <slrplx> Could 3440x1440 really be a problem in this setup?
[20:39] <oerheks> slrplx, with DP it should fully work.
[20:39] <oerheks> go check the vendor
[20:43] <slrplx> vendor says: HDMI & Display Port: 3440 x 1440 @48-75Hz
[20:44] <_Sean_> gunix_: I think you are looknig for 'ubiquity ubiquity/success_command'   from my limited smashing of stuff that deprecated preseed/late_command
[20:44] <oerheks> slrplx, grinn, your vendor hides the truth, seen that before
[20:46] <slrplx> Naughty vendor
[20:46] <slrplx> Anything I can attempt?
[20:47] <albech> ioria: rclone -P --include "backup-SQL-*" --exclude "lost*" sync /var/bareos-storage/ wasabi:bucket-name - getting: ERROR : lost+found: error reading source directory: failed to open directory "lost+found": open /var/bareos-storage/lost+found: permission denied
[20:47] <ioria> albech, try --exclude “/lost+found/**”
[20:47] <albech> ioria: tried with escaping lost\+found also.. same problem..
[20:47] <oerheks> HDMI 1.4 supports up to 2560x1440 using at 60hrz, *maybe* at lower 30hrz it works, but i guess you need DP
[20:48] <oerheks> good luck!
[20:48] <ioria> albech, then, no idea
[20:50] <_Sean_> hrmpf - too good to be true, worth a try @ gunix_ - http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vNcGmkq3SP/
[20:52] <slrplx> Thanks oerheks
[20:52] <albech> anyone else have experience with rclone and how to ignore lost+found? I have tried the --ignore filter, but with no luck.
[20:53] <gunix_> Thank you @_Sean_
[20:54] <slrplx> oerheks
[20:54] <slrplx> It works at 30hz!
[20:54] <_Sean_> unfortunately didn't work
[20:54] <_Sean_> oh well
[20:57] <oerheks> slrplx, good, you are lucky!
[20:57] <oerheks> have fun
[21:00] <slrplx> Hm
[21:00] <slrplx> Also works at 40hz
[21:46] <pragmaticenigma> albech, the --exclude only works for files, not folders
[21:46] <pragmaticenigma> albech, The documentation also mentions you should not use --include and --exclude
[21:46] <pragmaticenigma> at the same time
[22:15] <martiansoul> Hi. I want to start reading the code of linux kernel. but for now, i would prefer a small snippet. could anyone guide me for the same?
[22:17] <jeremy31> martiansoul: have at the Linux kernel tree source https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/?h=v5.4-rc8
[22:18] <martiansoul> jeremy31: how should i proceed with reading it?
[22:18] <jeremy31> martiansoul: if you want to look at Intel wifi source code. go to /drivers/net/wireless/intel/iwlwifi
[22:28] <gyuma1etyr> Hi
[22:28] <gyuma1etyr> How to disable internet for one particular user?
[22:28] <gyuma1etyr> I'm using 18.04 LTS
[22:32] <gyuma1etyr> anyone an idea?
[22:37] <radkos> hello I'm having curlftpfs installed and configured but It seems curlftfs can't modify a file in-realtime
[22:38] <radkos> I'm trying to directly download file to it - no luck I believe I'm having the right permissions - the dbg message i recieve is
[22:38] <radkos> ftpfs: operation ftpfs_open failed because Operation not supported
[22:59] <Eduard_Munteanu> radkos, what protocol?
[23:02] <radkos> Eduard_Munteanu, torrent
[23:02] <Eduard_Munteanu> radkos, that's strange, do you mean you mounted a torrent URL using curlftpfs?
[23:03] <Eduard_Munteanu> Because I don't think that's supposed to be r/w.
[23:06] <radkos> Eduard_Munteanu, no I've set the mounted point with curlftpfs as a torrent's download destination
[23:11] <Guest_39> hi
[23:12] <SayurNaraSayo> hi
[23:12] <SayurNaraSayo> anyone here?
[23:13] <Bashing-om> !ask | SayurNaraSayo
[23:13] <oerheks> :-)
[23:14] <Eduard_Munteanu> radkos, and what protocol is curlftpfs using?
[23:15] <SayurNaraSayo> can i know where is the channel?
[23:16] <SayurNaraSayo> !patience
[23:16] <Eduard_Munteanu> SayurNaraSayo, what do you mean? This is the channel, and there are 1139 people lurking in here right now.
[23:18] <SayurNaraSayo> im looking for ubuntu chitchat old style where all people can chat..
[23:18] <Bashing-om> !ot | SayurNaraSayo
[23:19] <SayurNaraSayo> oh got it. thanks.
[23:19] <SayurNaraSayo>  /msg ubottu !register
[23:19] <Bashing-om> SayurNaraSayo: :) Help is what we do .
[23:20] <Eduard_Munteanu> You can also send ubottu private messages. That's what /msg ubottu is about, it's an IRC command.


[01:18] <smoser> RAOF, when you get around to sru processing tomorrow, could you look at letting cloud-init in ? it looks like it should be good for bug 1717477
[01:18] <smoser> (thanks in advance)
[01:21] <RAOF> smoser: I'm on leave starting tomorrow for a week and a bit; my next regular SRU rotation would be Wed the 18th.
[01:21] <RAOF> smoser: I presume you'd like it done before then, though, so I'll check it out after I track down this deadlock.
[01:24] <smoser> RAOF, thanks for the heads up. have a nice holiday!
[07:34] <RAOF> smoser: Sorry I didn't get to cloud-init today; please feel free to ping the next SRU guy on your list :)
[08:56] <alkisg> Ubuntu's firefox 55 made adobe flash crash by just right clicking on it. Now firefox 56 made flash crash without getting displayed at all (LP: #1720908). Upstream firefox releases don't have those issues... could someone fix the new .diff?
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> alkisg, works fine here
[09:09] <alkisg> chrisccoulson: thanks, let me try in a few VMs to see if something else is amiss (I tried 2 real installations already)
[09:09] <alkisg> Are you using flashplugin-nonfree, or adobe-flashplugin?
[09:17] <alkisg> *flashplugin-installer
[09:18] <pchamtaczke> Hi, is there any api to get Ubuntu
[09:18] <pchamtaczke> *Ubuntu Security Notifications?
[09:21] <alkisg> chrisccoulson: I can't find any way for firefox 56 + flash to run. Test cases so far: (1) mate 16.04 amd64 + firefox 56 + adobe-flashplugin=broken, (2) the same in i386=broken, (3) unity 16.04 amd64 + firefox 56 + flashplugin-installer=broken.
[09:21] <alkisg> In all those cases, if I revert to previous firefox versions, they work.
[09:22] <alkisg> 1 and 2 are real PCs (different ones), while 3 is a VM...
[09:34] <Unit193> So all of it is for 1604?
[09:37] <alkisg> Yes, I haven't tested e.g. 17.10 or anything
[09:43] <Unit193> I was going to confirm that I've seen no crashing due to flash.
[09:47] <chrisccoulson> alkisg, ok, I can see the issue. It also means there's another bug, because it should fail on later releases too, but it doesn't
[09:47] <alkisg> ty
[09:49] <chrisccoulson> at some point, we've stopped enabling BIND_NOW
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> which most likely happened here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/49.0+build4-0ubuntu2 (cc doko)
[10:10] <alkisg> chrisccoulson: I verified that the "immediate bug" isn't there in zesty, but the "right click crashes" bug is there
[10:10] <alkisg> *immediate crashing
[10:11] <alkisg> E.g. firefox 54 in zesty works, while firefox 56 crashes on right click
[10:42] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg mitya57 : can we maybe get into artful? https://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/qtwebview-opensource-src
[10:43] <acheronuk> I think I saw lisandro say it was due to go into sid imminently
[10:53] <LocutusOfBorg> just sync it?
[10:53] <LocutusOfBorg> and ask release
[11:00] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: I can't 'just sync it', I can only request-sync
[11:01] <acheronuk> anyway, I was asking to be polite to Qt peeps
[11:03] <acheronuk> oh, and @ tsimonq2 ^^^
[11:03] <acheronuk> amarok -dev was asking for it
[11:12] <LocutusOfBorg> sorry but I don't speak qt :) don't you have uploads powers?
[11:12] <LocutusOfBorg> my point is: if you want it to be syncd, I guess a chat with some release team member is preferred
[11:14] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: no, I'm not MOTU
[11:15] <LocutusOfBorg> in caze, I think mitya57 is the best person to do that sync
[11:16] <LocutusOfBorg> *case
[11:16] <acheronuk> LocutusOfBorg: indeed, hence including him in my initial ping
[11:30] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: Is it urgent for this cycle?
[11:31] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: ask the guy in #kubuntu-devel
[11:32] <acheronuk> he was requesting it for amarok
[11:37] <tsimonq2> Ok
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> alkisg, ok, got a fix for the context menu crash as well, although it won't be in the version I've already uploaded
[12:57] <alkisg> chrisccoulson: thanks a lot! :)
[13:00] <mitya57> acheronuk, LocutusOfBorg: doesn't it need a FFe first?
[13:05]  * mitya57 replied on all 3 channels
[15:08] <bdmurray> doko: Is there a plan for python3 apps depending on DLFCN? bug 1708947
[15:50] <slashd> rbasak, good day, could you please have a look at the newest debdiff (comments#38) created by niedbalski (re: percona-xtradb-cluster-5.6) LP: #1657256. I'm asking you since you did the first sponsoring round (before the compilation issues)
[15:51] <nacc> slashd: rbasak is on a swap day
[15:51] <slashd> nacc, thanks, I'll ping him tomorrow then.
[15:51] <slashd> niedbalski, tinoco ^
[15:51] <nacc> slashd: np
[15:52] <GunnarHj> Laney: Unfortunately the /etc/profile.d workaround we talked about yesterday doesn't work well enough. Can you please take a look at the latest comments on bug #1720250?
[15:53] <Laney> GunnarHj: Not really, I don't know why that would happen, can you debug?
[15:55] <GunnarHj> Laney: No, I wouldn't know how to do that. Sorry.
[15:55] <Laney> Sorry also.
[15:55] <GunnarHj> Laney: Is the first variant a no-go?
[15:56] <GunnarHj> Laney: As a 17.10 hack...
[15:58] <Laney> GunnarHj: It should be possible to look at what the difference between the two is that makes profile.d not work
[15:59] <Laney> check the environment you get in both cases
[16:00] <GunnarHj> Laney: The environment is identical in the two cases. The problem is that the suggestion window does not show up when typing, which makes the too pretty useless, I suppose.
[16:00] <Laney> Why would that be though?
[16:00] <GunnarHj> Laney: No idea.
[16:01] <GunnarHj> s/too/tool/
[16:01] <GunnarHj> Laney: It shows up on Xorg.
[16:02] <Laney> look at the process list on both maybe
[16:04] <GunnarHj> Laney: Yeah.. It just struck me that there are two instances of IBus running, and that setting variables in /etc/profile.d might be too late for the instance which is actually used.
[16:06] <GunnarHj> Laney: But I can take a closer look at the process lists. (Need to move to artful first...).
[16:06] <Laney> you can look at /proc/<pid>/environ too
[16:06] <Laney> to see what the processes saw
[16:06] <GunnarHj> Laney: Ok, I'll make a try.
[16:06] <Laney> Cool!
[16:41] <acheronuk> mitya57: yes, I guess it would require a FFe :/
[16:41] <mitya57> acheronuk, if you file one then I will subscribe and sync when it is approved
[16:42] <acheronuk> mitya57: ok. I'll try to get to it this evening, but if not, in the morning
[16:42] <mitya57> acheronuk, please subscribe me when you do it then
[16:43] <acheronuk> mitya57: I will
[19:21] <doko> bdmurray: yes, fix them. googling for that message shows some work arounds
[22:09] <Unit193> mdeslaur: Thanks very much for the newsbeuter security update!
[22:28] <doko> chrisccoulson: is there currently a reason to build thunderbird with gcc-5 in artful?
[22:43] <Unit193> Are we going to have one more merge of glib2.0?  It fixes one nasty bug in Xubuntu where a bunch of mounts end up on the desktop.  (cc jbicha, Laney, etc)
[22:44] <jbicha> Unit193: didrocks is working on the glib 2.54.1-1 merge this week
[22:44] <Unit193> It's still regressed from Zesty, though not dang awful.
[22:44] <Unit193> jbicha: Thanks!


[12:15] <lamont__> \sh: ?? what do you want to know?
[01:14] <Mithrandir> doko: I don't care, really.
[07:15] <fabbione> hey doko
[07:17] <fabbione> 13461 sparcbui  25   0  233m 231m 2304 R 82.2 46.3  12:56.52 ld
[07:17] <fabbione> this is the call that makes gcc-4.0 build hangs forever :)
[07:17] <fabbione> building libgcj 6 something
[07:26] <infinity> That's no surprise.
[07:27] <fabbione> hey infinity
[07:27] <fabbione> infinity: i need your help to debug the kernel failure on i386
[07:27] <fabbione> because i cannot reproduce it here
[07:28] <fabbione> or better... on concordia i386
[07:28] <fabbione> it just builds fine
[07:29] <fabbione> infinity: would it be an option for you to bootstrap a buildd chroot (breezy), update it to death and rebuild?
[07:29] <fabbione> i wonder if one of the build-deps (like binutils or so might be old)
[07:29] <infinity> Hrm, same failure on two different buildds is suspicious though.
[07:30] <fabbione> infinity: still doesn't explain why it's ok here, on concordia and zul machine
[07:30] <infinity> Also, if you really need a versioned build-dep on specific toolchain packages, you should depend on them (but sbuild prints a header telling you whwt was used)
[07:30] <fabbione> infinity: the point is that if it's a toolchain problem, i wasn't aware of it
[07:31] <fabbione> i did bump the problem build-deps to my knowledge
[07:31] <infinity> binutils_2.15-6ubuntu1
[07:31] <infinity> That's the latest.
[07:32] <fabbione> Version: 2.15-6ubuntu1
[07:32] <fabbione> same on concordia
[07:32] <infinity> I'll see if the chroots look goofy, but I can't immediately see why they would be (on two machines)
[07:32] <fabbione> ok
[07:32] <infinity> Given that this only happens in the -dbg build, I'd guess it's an obscure missing build-dep, not a bad version.
[07:32] <infinity> (ie: something the kernel needs to build the debug stuff, but you didn't know it)
[07:33] <fabbione> infinity: note that 386-dbg is built successfully before the failure (686-dbg)
[07:33] <infinity> Oh, neat.  Kay.
[07:33] <fabbione> so the build deps are there
[07:36] <infinity> Should I actually look at the ksyms and see HOW they're inconsistent? :)
[07:36] <infinity> (Assuming the build dir hasn't been purged...)
[07:37] <fabbione> infinity: that would be an option
[07:37] <fabbione> my build on concordia is still all there
[07:37] <fabbione> so we can actually compare the stuff
[07:37] <infinity> Oh, which it has.  lamont has sbuild configured to always purge.
[07:37] <infinity> Meh.
[07:38] <fabbione> infinity: well i guess it's time to do a manual build.. isn't it?
[07:38] <infinity> Yeahp.  This is why I wish REDO worked. :)
[07:40] <infinity> Hrm.  I wonder if ccache could be to blame.
[07:40] <infinity> Did you use ccache in your local build?
[07:40] <fabbione> yes
[07:40] <infinity> Anyhow, copying a test chroot that should be identical to the one used for the failed build on terranova and will test a manual build in a sec.
[07:41] <fabbione> great
[07:41] <infinity> I'm really hoping the manual build fails.
[07:41] <fabbione> so do i
[07:41] <infinity> If it doesn't, I don't look forward to the debugging.
[07:44] <infinity> I can find this problem on Google in the ARM build...  Not very helpful. :)
[07:45] <fabbione> nope :)
[07:50] <infinity> Hrm, these chroots don't seem all thayt minimal to me...
[07:57] <lamont> infinity: REDO does work.. .but takes 3 args (3rd is component)
[07:58] <lamont> and the chroots do occasionally wind up polluted since things don't like to purge... the new infrastructure throws the chroot away each time
[07:58] <lamont> (and we always purge, because we don't like to run out of disk space... that's bad...)
[08:04] <infinity> lamont : Ahh, you originally toldme REDO didn't work at all, I hadn't had a chance to look at how it was currently working.
[08:05] <lamont> well, replying 'retry' doesn't work.  manually saying 'echo foo_1.1 breezy universe >> build/REDO' does
[08:05] <lamont> anyway - I should be in bed
[08:09] <fabbione> lamont: good night :)
[08:12] <infinity> 'Night. :)
[02:04] <infinity> doko : Around?
[02:04] <infinity> doko : Do I need to start removing some packages from Not-For-Us?
[02:08] <doko> infinity: what is the current state of the list?
[02:09] <doko> I updated frozenapps.txt yesterday
[02:13] <infinity> Oh, fun.
[02:13] <infinity> Any way to get a diff between the frozenapps of last week and this new one? :)
[02:14] <infinity> (Maybe I have a copy somewhere... Lemme see)
[02:21] <doko> infinity: sorry, don't have a diff/the old one
[02:22] <elmo> infinity: just diff n-f-u vs the list?
[02:22] <elmo> the only thing in n-f-u should be frozenapps
[02:31] <infinity> Oh, good point.  It doesn't actually get used normally, does it? :)
[02:33] <infinity> elmo : If I --forget something, will cron.daily revive its correct status on the next run, asi expect it to?
[02:37] <elmo> infinity: I imagine so, yes
[03:39] <infinity> elmo : Can you process libccscript's NEW binaries?
[03:39] <elmo> katie@jackass:~$ helena
[03:39] <elmo> katie@jackass:~$
[03:40] <elmo> infinity: see my whining about ntp in #u-d
[03:43] <infinity> Does thet helena output mean "I did it already", or "there were no NEW binaries, dumbass"?
[03:44] <elmo> either, take your pick
[03:44] <elmo> ;)
[03:46] <elmo> (first, IIRC)
[03:50] <infinity> Yeah, --forget and cron.daily get along just fine.  Yay.  The turnaround time for that trick is much faster than with Debian too, thank god.
[04:04] <elmo> I can always tell when fabbione's packages are building
[04:04] <elmo> 4 of the buildds start yellow-lining on nagios :-P
[04:49] <\sh> starnge
[04:49] <\sh> strange even
[04:49] <\sh> on the buildds libccrtp fails at one point, but in my local breezy pbuilder it doesn't fail
[04:50] <jbailey> elmo: Doesn't gcc and glibc give nagios the same heartburn?
[04:54] <elmo> jbailey: if they make -j as much as fabbione does, probably yeah
[04:54] <elmo> it's a tiny tiny percentage of packages that do thi
[04:56] <jbailey> Right now it only make -j's the number of CPUs.
[04:56] <jbailey> I keep meaning to make it 2n +1 when the cpus > 1
[10:32] <fabbione> elmo: ahhaha "fabbione: the nagios anal penetrator!"
[10:32] <fabbione> ;)
[10:35] <fabbione> good night guys
[10:35] <fabbione> cya in few hours


[00:09] <JanC> teward: well, I think Mozilla/Microsoft only stopped accepting certificates signed after a certain date, for now?
[00:10] <teward> they may have, but since our Firefox isn't up to date (22.04 was juuuuust before the snap switchover for Firefox because all the flavors pushed hard back about a last second switch at final freeze to Snap right before release) I don't think that has been put into the updates
[00:10] <teward> either way, I have no problem disallowing a CA that's going to be yoinked anyways.
[00:15] <JanC> oh, I disabled those certs too (not just in ca-certs, but in Firefox too)
[00:23] <JanC> ideally all OS makers/distributors would agree to remove it so that there can be no excuses  :)
[00:23] <teward> yup
[00:23] <teward> but also ideally
[00:23] <JanC> also ideally it would never have been added  :)
[00:23] <teward> all browsers would be allowed to refer to $SYSTEM_CERT_STORE instead of individual keyrings (Firefox, Chrome, Edge, etc. all keep their own even on Linux, while they let Windows versions refer to the system cert store)
[00:24] <teward> JanC: accurate
[00:24] <teward> but also my last statement
[00:24] <teward> (accidentally poked the enter key)
[00:25] <JanC> is there a system store with all the same features on linux?
[00:25] <teward> unfortunately no.  but you can 'hack' it for a cert trust store by using ca-certificates
[00:26] <teward> my point being it'd be nice to *not* have to manually adjust 3 separate locations (ca-certs, Firefox, Chrome) and have something capable of editing them all
[00:26] <JanC> from what I understood, ca-certificates can't express "trust only for certificates signed before N"
[00:26] <JanC> it should be possible to implement something central like that, of course
[00:26] <teward> JanC: technically speaking, neither can Firefox or Chrome on their own, without code level changes.  but something centralized would be *nice* to have that
[00:26] <teward> (Windows is unique in that they don't do a ton of RFC-compliant stuff even in their own cert authority systems so)
[00:27] <teward> (no seriously they aren't RFC compliant even in default templates and stuff xD)
[00:27] <teward> but i digres
[00:27] <teward> digress*
[00:27] <teward> as long as I can make my internal network PKI trusted on everything that's all I care about (private PKI cert chain and stuff)
[00:32] <JanC> I wonder if you could implement using system certificates in Firefox with a "security device plugin"
[00:34] <JanC> including system CA certificates?


[06:46] <elky> niko, why?
[06:47] <elky> niko, you know who that targets, yeah?
[06:47] <elky> i'd change it to his nick rather than the current ambiguous string
[17:33] <phillw1> nhandler are you about?
[17:35] <nigelb> phillw: nhandler is going to be away for a few days
[17:38] <phillw> nigelb thanks... I *think* MichaelH has got it sorted for me, It's just that Nathan is one of my ex-mentors from UBT so he's easier to chat to :)
[17:41] <nigelb> phillw: :)
[17:44] <MichealH> phillw: Just ask me for help :)
[17:44] <MichealH> I knwo quite a bit of IRC :D


[02:12]  * lamont forces a build on a particular buildd to check something
[03:49] <infinity> lamont: ?
[03:50] <infinity> cjwatson: Hrm.  Yeah, I think I've noticed some things being correct in proposed and then wrong an needing re-promotion when moved.
[03:50] <infinity> cjwatson: Could be the same as https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1079577
[03:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079577 in Launchpad itself "Copies with binaries don't correctly override NEW binaries" [High,Triaged]
[03:51] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, almost certainly IS that bug, I just wasn't sure if it would affect copies within the same archive (apparently, yes).
[03:52] <infinity> cjwatson: Though, they're different bugs, in that we'd want the behaviour different.  Copies in the same archive shouldn't get overridden (again) at all...
[04:00] <lamont> infinity: these are not the droids you are looking for.
[04:00] <lamont> infinity: 'twas more about my ppa and watching the build than about the buildd
[15:18] <superm1> slangasek: i think copying the binaries from precise updates to quantal updates for mythtv caused some problems (bug 1080024).  should i upload a no change rebuild to quantal-propsed so that it links against new libx264 and then that can be copied to -updates to fix the issue?
[15:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1080024 in mythtv (Ubuntu) "Quetzal libmyth-0.25-0 depends on libx264-120" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080024
[16:47] <slangasek> superm1: yes please


[14:48] <wrst> hello pbjtime
[14:49] <pbjtime> srry about all the reconnects at work on phone. wanted to get opinion on if I should just reload ubuntu on my computer since i forgot my log in password
[14:50] <Ubik> or boot single-user and then reset it (unless you're using encryption)
[14:51] <pbjtime> i believe i am, my main computer is down this is an old one i had a few years ago since i do not remeber my password
[14:53] <wrst> pbjtime: booting in single user mode sounds like a pretty good plan to me too, of course if using encryption...
[14:53] <pbjtime> thanks for the help, will try it when i get home
[19:35] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: are you finally here?
[20:01] <chris4585> hey wrst
[20:01] <wrst> chris4585: how you doing?
[20:01] <wrst> and good morning ;)
[20:03] <chris4585> on manjaro linux (installed on my media pc), I decided to go ahead and try cinnamon since it is the default desktop on the gnome iso
[20:05] <chris4585> surprisingly its not so bad using it, I'm not a fan of the bottom panel setup, but its okay I just need basic keyboard functions
[20:05] <wrst> yeah i mean i'm sure its ok i really haven't tried it, i would just prefer no fork and add extensions
[20:06] <chris4585> I'm good, just a boring wednesday
[20:06] <chris4585> fork or no fork its actually decent on arch surprisingly and manjaro auto detects and installs proper video drivers which is nice!
[20:07] <wrst> ha ha
[20:07] <wrst> chris4585: everything is a little better on arch it seems
[20:08] <chris4585> it seems, manjaro feels like what ubuntu is for debian or what mint is for ubuntu
[20:10] <wrst> hmm interesting
[20:15] <chris4585> how are you wrst ?
[20:17] <wrst> i'm doing well
[20:17] <wrst> just getting a day at work finished up
[20:17] <chris4585> awesome, server working today?
[20:18] <wrst> chris4585: yep, ISP had some issues yesterday, then my power went out for a couple hours last night!
[20:19] <chris4585> ahh, glad its sorted out
[20:20] <chris4585> I would like to eventually try quassel ? but xchat does just fine for me
[20:21] <wrst> yeah its quassel i'm pretty fond of it
[20:22] <chris4585> if I had a vpn or server off site I would probably try it then because I like being connected all times but!  :D
[21:07] <wrst> ha ha Unit193 well that i understand thats why i was messing with things so late
[21:07] <Unit193> Now I wonder if I installed the new kernel or not...
[21:09] <wrst> you may never know Unit193 :)
[21:10] <Unit193> I'll know on checking...
[21:10] <wrst> :)


[02:09] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[04:59] <marcoagpinto> Morning!!!
[07:58] <ducasse> good morning
[11:19] <oerheks> Congratulations to Zoë Kooyman on her election to executive director at the Free Software Foundation. We look forward to seeing how the FSF continues its work in promoting free software under their stewardship. Read more: https://www.fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-announces-new-executive-director-zoe-kooyman/clear


[08:01] <MacSlow> Greetings folks!
[08:01]  * greyback waves from Cape Town
[08:01] <MacSlow> greyback, enjoying the sun? :)
[08:02] <greyback> MacSlow: yep, it's warm & sunny. We're inside working hard however
[08:03] <MacSlow> greyback, I know :)
[08:03] <greyback> MacSlow: welcome back. Have a good holiday?
[08:04] <MacSlow> greyback, thanks... basically yes... but my moving-plans didn't work out as planned... so it's a bit of a mixed bag :)
[08:04] <greyback> MacSlow: ah, I wasn't aware you were planning to move. Same city? Same country? :)
[08:05] <MacSlow> same city... but now after more than seven weeks still no i-net in the new flat :/
[08:05] <kgunn> MacSlow: you surface...welcome back
[08:05] <MacSlow> kgunn, thanks
[08:09] <tsdgeos> guys
[08:10] <tsdgeos> are you having scoperegistry at 100% too?
[08:10] <MacSlow> hey tsdgeos
[08:10] <tsdgeos> MacSlow: welcome back
[08:10] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, thanks
[08:17] <tsdgeos> MacSlow: have you dist-upgaded? can you reproduce the cpu usage of scoperegistry being at 100% all the time?
[08:19] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, just doing all the updating right now... I'll report back if I see that too here
[08:20] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, getting > 1GBytes work of updates :)
[08:20] <tsdgeos> lol
[08:21] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, typical for a frist day after holiday :)
[08:27] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: hi ho, can you reproduce the cpu usage of scoperegistry being at 100% all the time?
[08:30] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, hi! i don
[08:31] <tsdgeos> missing 't or extra n?
[08:31] <tsdgeos> :D
[08:31] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, i don't have the full setup with unity8 atm, so I can't right now
[08:31] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: this is on the desktop
[08:31] <tsdgeos> happens both in unity7 and kde
[08:31] <tsdgeos> s/kde/plasma
[08:31] <tsdgeos> D:
[08:31] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, ah, so it's not when real client talks to it?
[08:32] <tsdgeos> i haven't tried starting unity8 tbh
[08:32] <tsdgeos> let me see if that makes it happy
[08:32] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, ok, I'll take a look and let you know
[08:35] <tsdgeos> unity8 is segfaulting now :-S
[08:35] <tsdgeos> come on!
[08:37] <tsdgeos> hmmm
[08:37] <tsdgeos> i have http://ppa.launchpad.net/unity-team/demo-stuff/ubuntu/
[08:38]  * tsdgeos bets something went wrong in there
[08:43] <sil2100> jamesh: hi! Just a note - when testing mediascanner2 on Friday, I noticed that it was using far more CPU than mediascanner
[08:43] <jamesh> sil2100: in general use, or when idle?
[08:43] <jamesh> I mean, when scanning or when idle?
[08:44] <sil2100> jamesh: I guess that when it was idle as well, top was mentioning a 3-4% CPU usage all the time, and my phone strangely started generating more heat then usually on idle
[08:44] <jamesh> sil2100: okay.  I'll take a look.
[08:45] <sil2100> jamesh: thanks
[08:46] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: MacSlow: purging ppa:unity-team/demo-stuff from my system made stuff go back to normal
[08:46] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, thanks for the hint!
[08:47] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, ok. i'm not using this ppa atm
[08:47] <tsdgeos> i was because i was told it was needed for the new scopes to work or something
[08:47] <tsdgeos> but may have changed
[08:47] <tsdgeos> let's see if the capetown people show up and we can ask them
[08:49] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, don't get me wrong, this ppa is ok and the way to go. but perhaps something broke there
[08:51] <jamesh> sil2100: out of interest, if you stop the upstart job and run mediascanner-service-2.0 from a terminal, do you see the same CPU usage problems?
[08:52] <sil2100> jamesh: will check a bit later, I just clean-flashed my device with the newest image
[08:52] <jamesh> sil2100: thanks
[08:52] <sil2100> jamesh: but I only tried running mediascanner through upstart on Friday, so no direct-launching
[08:53] <jamesh> sil2100: yep.  I've done most of my testing from a terminal, so I was wondering if the different environment triggers the problem.
[08:54] <jamesh> I'll test it out myself, but thought I'd mention it up front as a possibility.
[09:34] <pstolowski> tsdgeos, I can confirm 100% cpu with scoperegistry in trunk
[09:34] <tsdgeos> cool, tx
[09:45] <didrocks> hey Saviq
[09:45] <didrocks> Saviq: we have 2 reliable autopilot tests failures on unity8 since Friday evening
[09:45] <didrocks> happened on the 4 images produced on mako
[09:46] <didrocks> http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/125:20140113:20140107.1/6032/unity8-autopilot/ on the last run for instance
[09:47] <Saviq> mzanetti, can you have a look please ↑
[09:48] <Saviq> mzanetti, or delegate at least
[09:48] <Saviq> didrocks, can you get us a list of packages that changed? u8 wasn't released for a few weeks now
[09:48] <didrocks> sure, one sec
[09:49] <didrocks> Saviq: /!\ the list is big, but it seems mostly gstreamer related
[09:49] <didrocks> (opencv)
[09:49] <didrocks> Saviq: it started with those changes: http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20140110.1.changes
[09:49] <didrocks> I don't see anything striking me though
[09:50] <didrocks> as you are not using python3-autopilot I guess
[09:53] <Saviq> didrocks, yeah, not yet
[09:53] <didrocks> Saviq: keep us posted, we are not promoting any image before having your expertise on what regressed (if it's a real issue) you
[09:56] <Saviq> didrocks, will do, running the suite on my mako now
[09:57] <didrocks> thx!
[10:02] <Saviq> tsdgeos, mzanetti, bug #1268525 btw
[10:02] <Saviq> we  got FTBFS
[10:03] <tsdgeos> booo
[10:07] <tsdgeos> Saviq: do you want us to fix it *now* or can we wait for mterry?
[10:15] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it can wait, just making you aware
[10:15] <tsdgeos> okidoki
[10:22] <dednick> Saviq: what's USC in terms of unity/mir?
[10:25] <anpok> unity system compositor
[10:25] <tsdgeos> E_TOO_MANY_ACRONYMS
[10:25] <anpok> :)
[10:27] <tsdgeos> dednick: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~allanlesage/unity8/autopilot-indicator-page-title-matches-widget/+merge/196991 ? seems your name is in there :D
[10:27] <dednick> ahha, yeah, that would make sense
[10:28] <dednick> tsdgeos: ok
[10:35] <tsdgeos> dednick: since the running of autopilots seems to be borked on the CI at the moment please make sure you run the whole autopilot suite and it succeeds for you
[10:36] <Saviq> pete-woods, any idea how https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/5eef1d661e41b06e44728924231b45e26457dbb7 could be happening?
[10:38] <Saviq> greyback, https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/86923190-7b60-11e3-978e-2c768aafd08c ideas about this stacktrace?
[10:38] <pete-woods> Saviq: that's weird, there hasn't been a new release of libusermetrics in quite a while
[10:39] <Saviq> pete-woods, well, we might have never seen that, simply - whoopsie upload got enabled on the phones very recently
[10:39] <Saviq> tsdgeos, we saw https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/06fd8687e02be79bfdb8ed6a820caf9f727581ed before didn't we?
[10:40]  * tsdgeos clicks
[10:40] <greyback> Saviq: never seen that before. Nothing obvious comes to mind
[10:40] <tsdgeos> yes
[10:40] <tsdgeos> i do remember that
[10:40] <tsdgeos> was a total red herring
[10:41] <tsdgeos> got fixed by just making the shutdown stuff happen correctly
[10:41] <tsdgeos> is it back?
[10:41] <tsdgeos> seems so
[10:41] <Saviq> tsdgeos, last example is January 2
[10:41] <tsdgeos> well we never made shutdown really work well
[10:41] <Saviq> tsdgeos, https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/a339c5de-742a-11e3-893e-e4115b0f8a4a
[10:42] <Saviq> didrocks, it's python-gi/python-gobject
[10:42] <Saviq> mzanetti, you're off the hook for the ap failure
[10:43] <didrocks> Saviq: do you have more infos that we can share with pitti?
[10:43] <didrocks> (maybe on #ubuntu-touch?)
[10:43] <mzanetti> Saviq: thanks
[10:43] <tsdgeos> Saviq: yeah it's one of the multiple "we still don't shutdown correctly all the time" crashes
[10:43] <tsdgeos> Saviq: do we want to put more effor in getting that fixed now?
[10:45] <didrocks> Saviq: ah, or the issue is in the test itself and the warning is triggering an issue?
[10:46] <tsdgeos> dednick: you have a few branches up for review, want me to tackle some of those? or you have someone in mind to check them?
[10:46] <didrocks> Saviq: the commit is https://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/?id=7193f050
[10:47] <didrocks> Saviq: I guess you have an implicit type conversion in your test?
[10:47] <dednick> tsdgeos: be my guest!
[10:48] <Saviq> didrocks, here's the failing thing: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity8/trunk/view/head:/tests/autopilot/unity8/shell/tests/test_notifications.py#L291
[10:49] <didrocks> nothing shocking on first look
[10:50] <Saviq> didrocks, but it might actually be the script that's failing
[10:50] <didrocks> Saviq: that sounds more plausible
[10:51] <Saviq> didrocks, I'm digging more
[10:51] <didrocks> thanks! good hunt :)
[10:55] <tsdgeos> dednick: how does https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity8/lp1264678-indicator.misalignment/+merge/200866 relate to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ux/+bug/1253804 and https://code.launchpad.net/~fboucault/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fix_tabs_ordering ?
[10:56] <tsdgeos> are they both fixing the same? or is it different issues that trigger a similar problem?
[10:57] <dednick> tsdgeos: hm... looks like it, but the mp for that bug doesnt seem to be the same.
[10:58] <tsdgeos> dednick: two questions
[10:58] <tsdgeos> dednick: can you reproduce the errror somehow? and is that something we can unittest?
[11:01] <dednick> tsdgeos: yeah, give me a minute and i'll work out the steps. I'll have to investigate possible unit test, only happens under certain circumstance
[11:02] <tsdgeos> dednick: oki, it'd be cool if we could get a unittest
[11:03] <tsdgeos> to proof the code indeed fixes something, since the change seems mostly a code shuffling to my untrained eye
[11:03] <tsdgeos> dednick: maybe explain in the commit log why this shuffling actually fixes it?
[11:03] <dednick> tsdgeos: essentially the fix is 116-118 :)
[11:04] <tsdgeos> ah
[11:11] <tsdgeos> dednick: looking at 116-118 don't you think this is something that should be fixed at the Tabs level?
[11:11] <tsdgeos> i mean if the model changes the Tabs should react to it automatically, don't see why you should tell it to update
[11:11] <dednick> tsdgeos: no, it's to do with the filtermodel data changing because of an indicator visiblity change.
[11:12] <tsdgeos> but still
[11:12] <tsdgeos> you have
[11:12] <tsdgeos> model: filteredIndicators
[11:12] <tsdgeos> why doesn't Tabs update itself?
[11:12] <tsdgeos> though i see you're using the "old" Tabs
[11:12] <tsdgeos> you can feed it a model now instead all those weird Tabs thing
[11:13] <tsdgeos> i guess the old tabs as not very good
[11:13] <dednick> tsdgeos: it's because of this line: readonly property int currentMenuIndex : filteredIndicators.mapToSource(tabs.selectedTabIndex)
[11:13] <dednick> the currentMenuIndex needs to change when the visibility of an item with a lower index changes.
[11:15] <tsdgeos> dednick: still not convicing me :D
[11:15] <dednick> tsdgeos: hm
[11:15] <tsdgeos> sure i agree that has to update
[11:15] <tsdgeos> ahh
[11:15] <tsdgeos> or maybe yes
[11:15]  * tsdgeos looks at it again
[11:15] <dednick> tsdgeos: actually, i've unconviced myself now..
[11:16] <dednick> *unconvinced
[11:16] <dednick> not that it's a word..
[11:17] <dednick> tsdgeos: while this way works, it's a bit roundabout and not very efficient
[11:18] <tsdgeos> i got it now
[11:18] <tsdgeos> it's not that you want selectedTabIndex to "change", it's that you want currentMenuIndex to get updated
[11:18] <tsdgeos> right?
[11:19] <dednick> tsdgeos: yeah
[11:21] <dednick> tsdgeos: but i think IndicatorRow should probably be doing the updating and notifying the MenuContent.
[11:21] <tsdgeos> dednick: you lost me there :D
[11:25] <tsdgeos> dednick: so i get you're reworking it?
[11:26] <dednick> tsdgeos: investigating it :) i'll try work on a unit test as well
[11:26] <tsdgeos> cool!
[11:39] <tsdgeos> dednick: i can't reproduce https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-34351 with my self compiled 5.2.1
[11:39] <tsdgeos> dednick: what were you using? ppa 5.2.? can you try again?
[11:40] <dednick> tsdgeos: i'm back on 5.0.2 now
[11:40] <tsdgeos> ok
[11:40] <tsdgeos> let's put a reminder then :D
[11:41] <dednick> tsdgeos: when did 5.2.1 become available? Saviq tried with 5.2 before i think
[11:42] <tsdgeos> dednick: it did not, i'm compiling from git
[11:42] <dednick> tsdgeos: ok
[11:44] <dednick> hmm. damn, cant remember how to reproduce this damn bug
[11:57] <tsdgeos> :/
[11:57] <tsdgeos> dednick: you have lots of  enabled: menuData && menuData.sensitive || false that could just be  enabled: menuData && menuData.sensitive
[11:57] <tsdgeos> no
[11:57] <tsdgeos> ?
[11:59] <dednick> umm... maybe? not really sure about the qml && evaluation. Saviq told me to use the || ,  although that may have been for string and such.
[11:59] <dednick> tsdgeos: is it actually documented somewher?
[11:59] <tsdgeos> dednick: for a string makes sense, but for a bool?
[12:00] <tsdgeos> i mean you are doing bool || false
[12:00] <tsdgeos> which is always the first bool, no?
[12:01] <tsdgeos> anyway doesn't hurt either
[12:01] <tsdgeos> so if it works
[12:01] <tsdgeos> let leave it there :D
[12:01] <dednick> :)
[12:26] <tsdgeos> hmmm
[12:26] <tsdgeos> what's causing https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/unity-phablet-qmluitests-trusty/900/console ?
[12:27] <Saviq> greyback, ideas ↑? something changed in mir's headers?
[12:28] <greyback> looking
[12:29] <tsdgeos> and why it works for me
[12:31] <greyback> ricmm_: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/unity-phablet-qmluitests-trusty/900/console
[12:36] <tsdgeos> what's libunity-mir-dev 0.2+14.04.20140108.1bzr168pkg0trusty0-0ubuntu1  ?
[12:36] <tsdgeos> unity-mir only has 162 revs
[12:36] <tsdgeos> ¿?
[12:37] <tsdgeos> greyback: i repeat
 what's libunity-mir-dev 0.2+14.04.20140108.1bzr168pkg0trusty0-0ubuntu1  ?
 unity-mir only has 162 revs
 ¿?
[12:38] <greyback> tsdgeos: sorry, network here dodgy
[12:38] <greyback> tsdgeos: that's a mystery to me
[12:38] <tsdgeos> it's coming from somehwre called  http://naartjie/archive//head.unity8/
[12:39] <tsdgeos> fginther: do you know what's that ↑ ?
[12:39] <tsdgeos> Saviq: ↑ ?
[12:39] <greyback> tsdgeos: so hte path /usr/include/mirserver is missing as a header include path, seeing why
[12:39] <tsdgeos> greyback: my current thinking is that somehow that unity-mir package is picking up the cmake stuff from tvoss and it's broken because of that
[12:40] <tsdgeos> but i'd like to know what that bzr168 mean
[12:40] <tsdgeos> s
[12:40] <greyback> tsdgeos: that's my suspicion yeah.
[12:43] <Saviq> tsdgeos, that's a local archive that's built when autolanding unity-mir
[12:43] <tsdgeos> Saviq: any idea why the bzr rev is off?
[12:43] <Saviq> tsdgeos, it's a per-stack (hence head.unity8) - all packages that are built in -autolanding jobs get put there
[12:44] <tsdgeos> ahhhh
[12:44] <Saviq> tsdgeos, good question, it should be 162
[12:44] <tsdgeos> so basically the cmake port broke unity-mir it seems :D
[12:44] <tsdgeos> bad us all for not anticipating it
[12:48] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so cmake's not installing that header?
[12:48] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i think the problem is that the pkg config of old unity-mir included more includepaths than the new one
[12:48] <tsdgeos> checking
[12:49] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ah possible
[12:50] <tsdgeos> yepp
[12:50] <tsdgeos> the
[12:50] <tsdgeos> Requires: ubuntu-platform-api mirclient mirserver Qt5Core
[12:50] <tsdgeos> is gone
[12:51] <tsdgeos> which most probably causes that include stuff missing
[12:53] <tsdgeos> Saviq: greyback: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity-mir/requires_pkg/+merge/201385
[12:54] <greyback> tsdgeos: heh, beat me to it :)
[12:54] <tsdgeos> and now
[12:54] <tsdgeos> food!
[13:01] <greyback> tsdgeos: approved
[13:28] <Saviq> Cimi, ping
[13:28] <Cimi> Saviq, pong
[14:10] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i'll continue landing stuff manually while otto is borked
[14:10] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yup
[14:10] <tsdgeos> mterry: hi ho, make sure you have a look at the bug Saviq assigned you
[14:10] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you know how to kick generic-land?
[14:10] <tsdgeos> Saviq: not really, i was planning of just doing it manually :D
[14:11] <tsdgeos> Saviq: but if there's a better way, i'm all ears
[14:11] <Saviq> mterry, bug #1268525
[14:12] <Saviq> tsdgeos, you find the autolanding job that failed: http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/unity8-autolanding/933/console
[14:12] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and you restart the generic-land job: http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/generic-land/21153/rebuild/?
[14:12] <Saviq> tsdgeos, approve the branch first
[14:12] <Saviq> tsdgeos, and then change FAILED to PASSED when restarting the job
[14:13] <tsdgeos> ok, letme see if i can do it :D
[14:14] <mterry> tsdgeos, Saviq: that should be fine.  We don't actually link against liblightdm-qt5 yet.  Not until we split
[14:14] <mterry> tsdgeos, Saviq: we just staticly link against the fake -2 version we make
[14:14] <Saviq> mterry, hmm right
[14:15] <Saviq> mterry, somehow I can't build it on device because of that :?
[14:15] <mterry> Saviq, alright looking
[14:21] <didrocks> Saviq: any news on the test failing? (Didn't get a chance to read scrollback)
[14:22] <Saviq> didrocks, pitti's filed a bug upstream
[14:22] <didrocks> Saviq: do you have the ref?
[14:22] <Saviq> didrocks, bug #1268578
[14:22] <Saviq> didrocks, and there's a workaround
[14:22] <didrocks> Saviq: do you plan to implement the workaround?
[14:23] <Saviq> didrocks, yeah, doing so now
[14:24] <didrocks> thanks!
[14:24] <didrocks> then, please put a landing ask for unity8 if good
[14:26] <mzanetti> MacSlow: hey, you're back
[14:26] <MacSlow> mzanetti, yup
[14:26] <Saviq> didrocks, tsdgeos, https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity8/workaround-1268578/+merge/201420
[14:26] <Saviq> MacSlow, welcome back!
[14:27] <mzanetti> MacSlow: welcome back
[14:27] <MacSlow> mzanetti, but still burried in catch-up on everything :)
[14:27] <MacSlow> Saviq, thanks :)
[14:27] <MacSlow> let's see if mumble still works ;)
[14:27] <mzanetti> MacSlow: I guess so... I received 123 mails in the last 4 hours... don't wanna know how many there are after 4 weeks :D
[14:27] <MacSlow> mzanetti, more than I feel is healthy ;)
[14:30] <tsdgeos> Saviq: you joning?
[14:30] <tsdgeos> greyback: ↑  ?
[14:31] <Saviq> tsdgeos, not really
[14:31] <tsdgeos> okidoki
[14:37] <greyback> tsdgeos: ah ok, it's the sidestage code causing this problem, not trunk
[14:41] <tsdgeos> good! (or not)
[14:41] <tsdgeos> :D
[14:46] <Saviq> mterry, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6744944/
[14:46] <Saviq> mterry, the failure on device U
[14:46] <Saviq> -U
[14:56] <didrocks> Saviq: ok, so no need for unity8 workaround I guess for now
[15:16] <fginther> tsdgeos, regarding libunity-mir-dev 0.2+14.04.20140108.1bzr168pkg0trusty0-0ubuntu1. The bzr version is based on the MP being merged, so it can be higher then the trunk branch. The package in the naartjie archive is also built from the last MP that passed autolanding (so the latest builds always replaces the last one regardless of the version number).
[15:16] <fginther> tsdgeos, This number is at least misleading, I'll see if I can find a way to improve it.
[15:17] <tsdgeos> fginther: that'd help, now that the number did not exist one could guess it was the latest, but if the number had existed one could have assumed the wrong code was in there
[15:18] <fginther> tsdgeos, I agree, it's a recipe for disaster
[15:20] <mterry> Saviq, I just build unity8 fresh on mako with debuild fine
[16:08] <tsdgeos> dandrader: do you have a sec?
[16:16] <dandrader> tsdgeos, yes
[16:16] <tsdgeos> dandrader: so i'm doing the organicgrid
[16:17] <tsdgeos> and since it's mostly "lineal" i'm doing the same deal of storing the m_firstVisibleIndex and a list of QList<QQuickItem*>
[16:17] <tsdgeos> now the thing is that due to the ordering inside a 6-module of the indexes
[16:18] <tsdgeos> when i'm going down in index number to find which index is not visible anymore
[16:18] <tsdgeos> it may happen that the index 4 of the "6-module" is not visible but the index 5 is
[16:18] <tsdgeos> see the UX spec for the positioning
[16:19] <tsdgeos> so i was thinking that maybe i should create the delegates in the modules of 6
[16:19] <tsdgeos> and not individually
[16:19] <tsdgeos> what do you think?
[16:19] <dandrader> didn't get this "6-module" story
[16:19] <tsdgeos> do you have the ux spec open?
[16:20] <dandrader> trying to open it but google drive seems very slow
[16:23] <dandrader> tsdgeos, it's the "Future Dash : UX spec"?
[16:23] <tsdgeos> dandrader: yep
[16:24] <dandrader> tsdgeos, so, what about it
[16:24] <dandrader> ?
[16:24] <tsdgeos> dandrader: so in the organic grid
[16:24] <tsdgeos> each 6 delegates for a module
[16:24] <tsdgeos> and are positioned in that 3x2 way
[16:24] <tsdgeos> yes?
[16:25] <dednick> tsdgeos: that MP is ready with tests now. Few changes though... now "realigns" if the visibility of indicator which is currently open changes.
[16:25] <tsdgeos> dednick: oki, will check tomorrow
[16:25] <dednick> tsdgeos: ta
[16:25] <dandrader> tsdgeos, what do that ux text mean by a "module"?
[16:26] <tsdgeos> "a module is all the cards needed for the repeating pattern, 6 cards"
[16:26] <tsdgeos> it's in the description
[16:26] <dandrader> ah
[16:27] <tsdgeos> ok, so now read again what i wrote at the beginning and see if it makes sense
[16:27] <tsdgeos> if not i'll try to rephrase it
 ok, so now read again what i wrote at the beginning and see if it makes sense
 if not i'll try to rephrase it
[16:30] <dandrader_> tsdgeos, so this organic grid can scroll horizontally or vertically?
[16:30] <tsdgeos> in the dash vertically
[16:31] <tsdgeos> i'll adapt it later for scrolling horizontally so we can reuse it in the gallery-app
[16:31] <tsdgeos> but for now asume it's only vertically
[16:33] <dandrader_> tsdgeos, I got the scenario but didn't get what's your problem
[16:34] <tsdgeos> my problem is what should i do :-)
[16:35] <tsdgeos> when index 3 is not in the vertical area we create
[16:35] <tsdgeos> but index 5
[16:35] <tsdgeos> is
[16:35] <tsdgeos> do i create index 3, 4 and 5?
[16:35] <tsdgeos> or do i create 6 too?
[16:35] <tsdgeos> and the same when deleting up
[16:35] <dandrader_> tsdgeos, ah, ok. I don't think there
[16:35] <dandrader_> there's a problem
[16:35] <tsdgeos> because something got out of bounds
[16:36] <tsdgeos> so i'm suggesting to treat the modules as single entities for "bounds" checking
[16:36] <dandrader_> in creating the items between indexes 2 and 5
[16:36] <tsdgeos> so that i either create the 6 module
[16:36] <dandrader_> even though they're not yet visible
[16:36] <tsdgeos> or delete the 6 module
[16:36] <dandrader_> if that makes the code simpler
[16:36] <tsdgeos> certainly does
[16:36] <tsdgeos> and it should not incur in a huge memory "waste"
[16:38] <dandrader_> it's no waste. it's similar to the "buffer" technique, where you also create the delegates that are very close to the visible rect
[16:38] <tsdgeos> sure
[16:39] <tsdgeos> that's of course buffering
[16:39] <tsdgeos> it's just a "more generous" buffer :D
[16:39] <tsdgeos> ok, i'll do that then
[21:31] <karni> Anyone flashed trusty-proposed today? I'm having problems starting the phone after having installed the demo-stuff ppa along the instructions (as usual after flashing the phone).
[21:31] <karni> It seems the backlit is on, and it briefly flickers something (anything) on every 8 seconds or so. Can't restart unity from shell, core dumped.
[21:32] <karni> not even sure if whatever it's blicking is meaningful, because I can only tell *something* blinks.


[00:20] <BUGabundo> fta: anything special in the chromeOS tree commits?
[00:20] <BUGabundo> lots of chatering about a release in a week or two
[11:29] <gnomefreak> ok when i click on mail from junk folder and mark as not junk it moves it to the inbox however if i mark a mail junk from the inbox it does not move it  to junk as it is set up that way
[11:30] <gnomefreak> in tb3
[12:49] <gnomefreak> yay natty is open to play with :)
[12:50] <gnomefreak> 286 upgraded, 13 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
[13:36] <micahg> gnomefreak: you have Move New Junk Messages checked?
[13:47] <fta2> dpm, hi, someone apparently contributed a lot of german translations
[13:48] <micahg> chrisccoulson: this patch seems to have failed for the Thunderbrid pixman issue and I'm not sure why http://paste.ubuntu.com/515626/
[13:48] <fta2> i should really speed up and complete my converter
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> micahg - ok, will have a look this afternoon
[13:49] <dpm> fta2, yes, I see it. Right, so it seems that even without announcing it people are discovering them. I think I should send an e-mail to the ubuntu-translators and launchpad-translators list telling them about the project and asking them not to submit translations until further announcement. What do you think?
[13:49] <micahg> chrisccoulson: thanks
[13:54] <fta2> dpm, if i change the strings format, i will try to also convert the strings already contributed (it's just a matter of stripping some extra xml tags and decode some &xxx; codes) so hopefully, nothing will be lost
[13:56] <dpm> fta2, ok, do you think I should still send the e-mail to translators, though?
[13:58] <fta2> dpm, hold one until later today. i'll review my code and see what's left to be done so i can give you an estimate
[13:58] <dpm> fta2, great stuff, thanks
[14:11] <gnomefreak> micahg: yes i do
[14:15] <micahg> gnomefreak: looks like a regression on mozilla 487610
[14:15] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 487610 in Filters "Messages marked manually as Junk are never moved to Junk folder (if user doesn't check "Enable adaptive junk mail controls for this account", even though UnJunk moves back to Inbox regardless of user's choice of the option)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=487610
[14:16] <gnomefreak> micahg: ill look in a minute
[14:17] <gnomefreak> micahg: i cant reopen that bug
[14:18] <micahg> gnomefreak: you shouldn't, file a new bug blocking it
[14:18] <gnomefreak> ok
[14:38] <gnomefreak> micahg: blocking 3.1?
[14:44] <gnomefreak> there nevermind
[14:44] <gnomefreak> be back
[15:39] <gnomefreak> it seems xulrunner 1.9 and 2.0 are failing to configure and keep locking up dpkg
[15:40] <gnomefreak> xulrunner-1.9.2 icedtea6-plugin xulrunner-2.0 xulrunner-2.0-gnome-support
[15:41] <micahg> gnomefreak: there was a bug with an older daily, but that should be fixed now, what are your current versions
[15:41] <gnomefreak> im running update now
[15:42] <gnomefreak> policy tells me im up to date
[15:43] <gnomefreak> <IP_ADDRESS>~hg20101015r34683+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1  2.0~b8~hg20101018r55986+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1
[15:43] <gnomefreak> thats the 2 xul
[15:43] <micahg> hmm, shouldn't be stalling, can you see what process is stalling?
[15:44] <gnomefreak> Setting up xulrunner-1.9.2 (<IP_ADDRESS>~hg20101015r34683+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1)
[15:45] <gnomefreak> this is now running dist-upgrade again after killing the proc.
[15:45] <micahg> gnomefreak: right, but can you look at ps -afx and see where it's stuck?
[15:48] <gnomefreak> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/515688/
[15:49] <micahg> gnomefreak: I'm interested in process 12165 down, can you expand your window and get a better paste?
[15:50] <gnomefreak> working on it
[15:50] <micahg> gnomefreak: it actually looks like they're 2 jobs running at once
[15:50] <micahg> 6315 down as well
[15:50] <gnomefreak> i havent killed it this time yet
[15:51] <micahg> gnomefreak: that's fine, you killed the upgrade once already?
[15:51] <gnomefreak> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/515691/
[15:51] <gnomefreak> micahg: 2 times i think
[15:52] <gnomefreak> i snipped the first part of it since it didnt seem important
[15:52] <gnomefreak> problem it says maverick and im not on maverick
[15:52] <gnomefreak> bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/xulrunner-1.9.2.postinst configure <IP_ADDRESS>~hg20101015r34683+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~maverick
[15:53] <micahg> hmmm, yeah, it seems like it got stuck on the first upgrade, now they're running twice
[15:53] <gnomefreak> i guess i can kill this time too
[15:53] <micahg> gnomefreak: can you attach strace to process 6334 and see what's getting stuck?
[15:54] <gnomefreak> micahg: not until tomorwo. i have a meeting to get to in a few minutes
[15:56] <gnomefreak> running sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock than dpkg --confi... still stalls it. but it does kill the process it is running
[15:57] <gnomefreak> s/is/was
[15:57] <micahg> gnomefreak: k, well, let me know tomorrow
[15:57] <gnomefreak> nomefreak@Development:~$ sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock
[15:57] <gnomefreak> [sudo] password for gnomefreak:  USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
[15:57] <gnomefreak> /var/lib/dpkg/lock:  root      12165 F.... dpkg
[15:57] <gnomefreak> Kill process 12165 ? (y/N) y
[15:57] <gnomefreak> k
[20:20] <chrisccoulson> anyone here on i386?
[20:30] <Dimmuxx> my netbook is
[21:22] <chrisccoulson> Dimmuxx, on maverick?
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> micahg - oh, the natty builds of firefox-4.0 are hanging on i386 too
[21:25] <micahg> :(
[21:25] <chrisccoulson> i disassembled the hanging code section today, and it looks very much like a compiler issue
[21:25] <micahg> heh, firefox finding bugs in gcc, nice :)
[21:26] <chrisccoulson> i just want somebody to test a gcc-4.5 build on i386 though (i'm going to build one on my PPA in a minute with the test-suite switched off)
[21:26] <chrisccoulson> just to confirm that it really is a problem
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> micahg - i think we should hold fire on any mozilla uploads to natty for now, we can always pocket copy the maverick updates across
[21:35] <micahg> chrisccoulson: ok, is it that hopeless?
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> micahg - on i386, it looks that way
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> deadlock before entering main() is about as bad as it gets ;)
[21:35] <micahg> chrisccoulson: k, that's 4.0, what about 3.6?
[21:36] <chrisccoulson> micahg - i suspect 3.6 is the same, i don't think jemalloc has changed that much
[21:37] <Dimmuxx> chrisccoulson: yes on maverick
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> Dimmuxx, how much longer are you going to be hanging around?
[21:37] <Dimmuxx> i'm online here 24/7 more or less
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> Dimmuxx, mind testing a build of firefox-4.0 in about 1.5 hours?
[21:39] <chrisccoulson> i just want to confirm whether gcc-4.5 really has broken it ;)
[21:39] <Dimmuxx> sure I can do that
[21:40] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[21:40] <Dimmuxx> why don't you just run a i386 version in vbox if you need to test things like this though?
[21:41] <chrisccoulson> i suppose i could do that ;)
[21:41] <chrisccoulson> that means me doing a vbox install though
[21:42] <micahg> chrisccoulson: i386 chroot :)
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> micahg - that's what i'm using to investigate the initial build issue, but i wanted to verify it to in a proper 32-bit environment
[21:43] <micahg> ah, yes
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> just to rule that out ;)
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> this is going to be an "interesting" cycle ;)
[21:44] <Dimmuxx> vbox is nice to have, I use it to have local copies of remote servers that I admin
[21:44] <Dimmuxx> so that I can test crazy stuff locally before doing it for real
[21:44] <micahg> that reminds me, I need to send my emails to -devel tonight for the Mozilla stuff :-/
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> right, firefox-4.0 is building in my PPA with gcc-4.5 now: https://edge.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/ppa/+packages
[21:47] <Dimmuxx> tell me when it's published
[21:47] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> ok, i disassembled the last good build with gcc-4.5, and the code section looks more sane
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> urgh
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> i meant with gcc-4.4
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> i could do with figuring out a minimal reproducer for this really :/
[23:17] <chrisccoulson> Dimmuxx, ok, it's built now (but not published yet)
[23:17] <chrisccoulson> you can grab the binaries from https://edge.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/ppa/+build/2008882 though
[23:18] <chrisccoulson> (you only need firefox-4.0-core and firefox-4.0)
[23:18] <chrisccoulson> that build hangs for me in my chroot anyway
[23:19] <chrisccoulson> i guess i should test a build built with gcc-4.5 minus the linaro work
[23:20] <Dimmuxx> it doesn't work
[23:20] <chrisccoulson> Dimmuxx, it hangs at start
[23:20] <chrisccoulson> ?
[23:20] <Dimmuxx> yes or just quits after loading for a while
[23:20] <chrisccoulson> Dimmuxx, i suspect you have a firefox-4.0-bin process sitting hung on your system now ;)
[23:20] <chrisccoulson> you can just kill it
[23:20] <chrisccoulson> that's good that it's not just me then ;)
[23:21] <Dimmuxx> indeed
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> right, time to kick off a gcc build then
[23:22] <Dimmuxx> what does the gnome-support package do exactly btw?
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> Dimmuxx, it just depends on the gnome libraries
[23:23] <chrisccoulson> that's all
[23:23] <Dimmuxx> ah okay
[23:23] <Dimmuxx> so pretty useless then
[23:23] <chrisccoulson> for a gnome user, yes ;)


[02:32] <xu-help66w> Does anyone know how I can enable the fingerprint reader in xubuntu 20.04
[02:48] <Maik> if they stuck around longer i'd provided a guide to set it up
[04:50] <Gallienus> trying to install xubuntu 20.04.2 on a duel boot machine which has successfully run xubuntus 16.04 and 18.04.  20.04 now has an "unsupported SPROM" error.  Booting from DVD iso.
[08:28] <mazhar_sanvi> in ubuntu Ctrl+Alt+Tab is the shortcut to switch from window navigation to top bar navigation. Is there any similar keyboard shortcut for xubuntu?
[08:38] <mazhar_sanvi> Anyone?
[08:49] <Sanvi> Is there any keyboard shortcut to change the keyboard focus from window navigation to the top bar or panel? In ubuntu it is      Ctrl+Alt+Tab.
[08:49] <Sanvi> Is there anything like that in xubuntu?
[08:58] <Sanvi> Anyone????
[09:10] <Sanvi> Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy..... Anyone there???????
[13:06] <fernando-basso> How do I configure the mouse middle button scroll rate?