[16:13] <bobb> what is with dfarning? anyone
[16:13]  * bobb is  newbie
[16:14] <satellit_acer> bobb: he checks in periodically
[16:16] <bobb> satellit_acer: i will wait for lfaraone on #olpc
[16:16] <bobb> gotta go now...
[16:16] <satellit_acer> bye...good luck
[16:16] <bobb> thanks


[03:12] <roaksoax> jtv: around yet?
[03:25] <roaksoax> smoser: ubuntu releases support works successfully :D
[04:11] <bigjools> roaksoax: \o/
[05:15] <jtv> Hi roaksoax -- sorry I missed you
[06:07] <jtv> bigjools: "seeing if an object exists" in omshell will complicate our code, in that we need to send partial input, evaluate output, then decide what input to send next.  My original delete-first approach looks much simpler.
[06:08] <bigjools> jtv: it is also racy
[06:08] <bigjools> it;s really not hard to check first
[06:08] <bigjools> two lines of omshell
[06:08] <jtv> The omshell part is easy.  See above.
[06:09] <jtv> Wait, I have an idea.
[06:09] <jtv> But it's ugly.
[06:09] <bigjools> it's all easy
[06:09] <bigjools> I don;t understand your reticence
[06:09] <bigjools> but perhaps I am missing something you've seen
[06:10] <jtv> Well there's no conditionals in omshell.
[06:10] <jtv> So we can't keep sending one chunk of omshell code the way we're doing.
[06:10] <bigjools> you don't need to do it all in omshell
[06:10] <jtv> That's what I'm saying.
[06:11] <jtv> If we want to check first, we can't keep sending one chunk of omshell code the way we're doing.
[06:11] <bigjools> so what's the problem with that?
[06:11] <bigjools> you run it once and then possibly again
[06:11] <jtv> That we've been patching omshell a lot in tests.
[06:13] <jtv> I can give it a try.  It's definitely not impossible, just breaking something we've been making assumptions about.
[06:14] <bigjools> I can't see why it won't work, although it will require more mocking for tests
[06:15] <jtv> It's definitely not impossible.
[06:15] <bigjools> I guess that's the best I can get out of you :)
[06:15] <jtv> It's something I've been noticing this week: a lot of communication has been breaking down.
[06:17] <jtv> All I wanted to say is: we've been making a lot of assumptions about how we run omshell, and so this change may involve a lot of test changes.  That's the reason for my reticence.  I can try it, but I needed to discuss alternatives first.
[06:17] <bigjools> ok
[06:17] <bigjools> let's reqind
[06:17] <bigjools> rewind even
[06:17] <jtv> rescind?
[06:18] <bigjools> maybe :)
[06:18] <jtv> remind.
[06:18] <bigjools> the error message that you check for, let's see if you can make it appear for other scenarios
[06:18] <bigjools> if it doesn't, then your original code is good IMO
[06:18] <bigjools> what other scenarios? comms fail, syntax error, etc
[06:19] <jtv> fsetpos failure in a trace file.
[06:19] <jtv> (Seriously!  I have no idea why that generates that same error)
[06:20] <bigjools> whut?
[06:20] <jtv> Yeah.  :(
[06:20] <bigjools> no, I mean what are you doing, I don't understand
[06:20] <jtv> I went through the dhcp source to find other things that might generate this same error.
[06:21] <jtv> And there were a few, in code paths that I _think_ we're not exercising.
[06:21] <bigjools> ok
[06:21] <jtv> I have one thing I can try.
[06:21] <jtv> Hi rvba!
[06:21] <bigjools> if that's the case we are probably safe
[06:21] <rvba> Hi jtv, hi bigjools.
[06:22] <bigjools> however, did you check what errors omshell generates itself?
[06:22] <bigjools> morning rvba
[06:22] <jtv> bigjools: yes, I did — it's all the same codebase, so I just grepped the whole thing.
[06:22] <bigjools> ah ok
[06:23] <bigjools> jtv: in that case you have convinced me that your existing change is good
[06:23] <bigjools> does it work in practice?
[06:23] <jtv> When I tried it manually in omshell, yes.
[06:23] <bigjools> cool
[06:23] <jtv> I appreciate your critical probing; I wish I could give easy absolute certainties about that codebase.  :/
[06:24] <bigjools> yeah I know :/
[06:24] <bigjools> glad you appreciate it, not trying to be difficult, honest!
[06:24] <jtv> "Uh, trying?"  :)
[06:24] <bigjools> :p
[06:25] <jtv> It's good code for its era, actually.  Clay pots, numeric error codes...
[06:25] <jtv> Makes me appreciate python all the more.
[11:20] <jtv> roaksoax: I've got a change up for review that will manage the discussed extension to dhcpd's apparmor profile.  We'll have to run that when we set up our dhcpd, and direct its output into /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.sbin.dhcpd
[11:37] <jtv> roaksoax: Still have to set up the custom dhcpd instance though, with its own config file etc.
[12:13] <smoser> jtv, are you there?
[12:14] <smoser> so, thinking about apparmor
[12:14] <smoser> is there any reason that maas should write that ? rather than packaging?
[12:14] <smoser> the reason i ask is that I think it might just be easier all around if
[12:14] <jtv> hi smoser
[12:15] <smoser> a.) in precise, we add 1 line in packaging to the local/usr.sbin.dhcpd that says "include /etc/maas/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.dhcpd" or the like
[12:15] <smoser> b.) in quantal apparmor.d we get such a thing included.
[12:15] <jtv> Sure, if you can swing it, for both precise and quantal.
[12:15] <smoser> ie, in quantal we'll modify usr.sbin.dhcpd profile to have that include.
[12:16] <smoser> then maas packaging can write the file in both cases. the only difference is we have to update that local file in precise.
[12:16] <smoser> it just seemed strange to write it in maas source code. its really packaging that caused this pain :)
[12:16] <jtv> Ohhh, right, I see.
[12:17] <jtv> Well the maas code is only to manage the extension to the local file.
[12:17] <smoser> right. but even that seems wierd.
[12:17] <jtv> It could easily contain just the #include.
[12:17] <smoser> i dont want to stop this from moving forward.
[12:17] <smoser> but that seemed a bit less in trusive
[12:18] <smoser> and it really seems wierd to me to have a daemon writing apparmor config
[12:18] <jtv> Either way it's going to be done in packaging, of course.
[12:18] <smoser> interesting...
[12:18] <smoser> if there were an apparmor profile for maas
[12:18] <smoser> it probably would *not* allow it to write/modify files in /etc/maas/apparmor.d
[12:18] <jtv> It's not the daemon writing there — it's just a piece of python that the installation scripts can call.
[12:18] <smoser> because if it did... that'd be like allowing full exploit and defeat of apparmor
[12:19] <smoser> hm..
[12:19] <smoser> oh well.
[12:19] <smoser> i think i'll just table my thoguhts for now.
[12:20] <jtv> At this point, I'd rather have them soon so I can move forward a bit more before the night is over!
[12:20] <jtv> Er... did that come out weird?
[12:21] <jtv> What I mean is, I'm hoping to get a bit more done tonight.
[12:23] <smoser> me too
[12:23] <jtv> So I'd very much like these thoughts resolved.
[12:29] <jtv> smoser: if you feel the approach is wrong, it's better if you say so now than to wait until we're committed.  If you feel it's OK to append and #include to the local apparmor file, without managing custom settings in there, I can scuttle my branch to support the latter.
[12:30] <smoser> i think for precise we have to modify that file (the local)
[12:30] <smoser> there is no other way.
[12:30] <jtv> Agreed.  But how do we modify it?
[12:30] <smoser> i think if it works, it makes sense to reduce your management of a common file
[12:31] <smoser> by using "#include"
[12:31] <smoser> right?
[12:31] <jtv> Right.
[12:31] <jtv> I just didn't want to assume that we can just append that to the file and never look back.
[12:31] <smoser> right
[12:31] <jtv> For example, we don't want to leave a broken #include around after you purge the config.
[12:32] <smoser> yeah, i dont know how it handles that. and packaging on removal would have to handle removal of that if missing files cause apparmor to choke
[12:32] <smoser> roaksoax, what do you think ?
[12:33] <smoser> it seems more proper to me for packaging to basically handle apparmor
[12:33] <jtv> FWIW with my code it'd be easy to disable that bit we add.
[12:33] <jtv> Packaging scripts would _call_ my code, obviously.
[12:36] <smoser> well, they could, yeah.
[12:36] <smoser> i'll wait to see what roaksoax thinks.
[12:36] <jtv> OK
[12:36] <smoser> it really does to me seem like packaing's problem.
[12:36] <jtv> Yes — I'm just providing a tool for it to use.
[12:51] <jtv> smoser: I'm going to go out for dinner now.  I may be some time.
[14:03] <roaksoax> smoser: i'm fine with that, is the same thing done with bind
[14:04] <roaksoax> jtv: is the change in question make the change in the apparmor profile, or will we have to do it (in packaging)?
[14:04] <roaksoax> rvba: around?
[14:36] <roaksoax> rvba: let me know when around
[14:45] <rvba> roaksoax: I'm there but I'm otp
[14:46] <roaksoax> rvba: ok, no worries, let me know when you're done :)
[14:57] <smoser> ok.
[14:58] <smoser> i have a thoguht.
[14:58] <smoser> thell me how stupid this is.
[14:58] <smoser> in commissioning environment (and enlistment)
[14:58] <smoser> there is basically no way in to the image.
[14:58] <smoser> and when it fails, its a PITA to debug
[14:58] <smoser> so i'm thinking i will do:
[14:58] <smoser> if we take the failure case...
[14:59] <smoser> right now we print a message, sleep 60 seconds, poweroff
[14:59] <smoser> instead, we could
[14:59] <smoser> enable a password (possibly random), give a message, and say "if you do not login in the next X seconds, you will be powered off"
[15:01] <roaksoax> smoser: yeah that could work for debugging purposes
[15:02] <roaksoax> smoser: so, during enlistment, I waas thinking how to we chose what release to use?
[15:09] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1190988/
[15:09] <smoser> roaksoax, what do you mean choose?
[15:13] <roaksoax> smoser: so, while working on adding other ubuntu releases support
[15:13] <roaksoax> smoser: enlistment now requires you to tell what release to use for the enlisted system
[15:13] <roaksoax> smoser: so, how can we effectively chose what ubuntu releaswe to use
[15:14] <smoser> i'm confused.
[15:14] <smoser> you mean as in which ephemeral image to boot ?
[15:14] <roaksoax> smoser: no, it will boot in precise ephemeral image
[15:15] <roaksoax> smoser: but when you enlist the node itself
[15:15] <smoser> ok (that is a separate issue)
[15:15] <smoser> you're saying when i enlist a system, i have to chose the operating system that will be installd on it?
[15:15] <smoser> that is broken
[15:15] <smoser> badly broken
[15:15] <roaksoax> smoser: yes and no (that's one of the things I want to discuss with rvba)
[15:16] <roaksoax> smoser: but, as it stands now, I need to specify the ubuntu release to use
[15:56] <melmoth> random question of the day: if iwas to deploy a nova-compute servoce on the node running zookeeper (just for the sake of not wasting hardware), would i regret it ?
[16:02] <rvba> roaksoax: all right, I'm there.  Sorry for the delay.
[16:02] <roaksoax> rvba: no worries :)
[16:03] <roaksoax> rvba: ok so basically, the problme is that during enlistment we don't have to specify a release, but we always want it to set one by default
[16:04] <roaksoax> rvba: so in modes/node.py I did this:
[16:04] <roaksoax> os_release = CharField( max_length=10, choices=UBUNTU_RELEASE_CHOICES, blank=False, default=UBUNTU_RELEASE.precise)
[16:04] <roaksoax> which means that it should never be blank basically
[16:04] <roaksoax> right?
[16:05] <roaksoax> now, in forms.py I initially had this:
[16:05] <rvba> right
[16:05] <roaksoax> os_release = forms.ChoiceField( choices=UBUNTU_RELEASE_CHOICES, required=False, initial=UBUNTU_RELEASE.precise, error_messages={'invalid_choice': INVALID_UBUNTU_RELEASE_MESSAGE})
[16:05] <roaksoax> err
[16:05] <rvba> Note that 'blank' is purely validation-related.
[16:05] <roaksoax> s/False/True
[16:05] <roaksoax> so I had the above with s/False/True, then enlistment failed because we were not specifying the releas
[16:06] <roaksoax> eso I changed it to required=False, and then enlistment no longer complained about not specifying release
[16:06] <roaksoax> but there was this:
[16:06] <roaksoax> ValidationError: {'release': [u'This field cannot be blank.']}
[16:06] <roaksoax> which means it was related to the blank=False
[16:06] <rvba> yep
[16:06] <roaksoax> so my question is, shouldn't the initil= and/or default= have set the release?
[16:08] <rvba> Well, that is indeed confusing stuff in Django.
[16:08] <rvba> The initial=xxx stuff let's you create a form with initial values.
[16:08] <rvba> As in an HTML form.
[16:08] <rvba> but that's all it will do.
[16:09] <rvba> So in the API were we're simply using forms for validating stuff, that won't be taken in to account.
[16:10] <roaksoax> rvba: right, but what about the default= on node.py
[16:10] <roaksoax> rvba: or better yet, how do you think this problme should be addressed?
[16:11] <rvba> roaksoax: the form should be responsible for setting the default.  Let me find an example.
[16:13] <rvba> roaksoax: if you look at WithMACAddressesMixin which is a mixin used to extend node-adding forms, you'll see that in save(), we set the default hostname if the one provided is the empty string.
[16:13] <rvba> roaksoax: that's in src/maasserver/forms.py
[16:14] <roaksoax> rvba: right, that's exactly where I ws looking
[16:14] <roaksoax> rvba: but then again, that's particularly for mac address isn't it?
[16:14] <rvba> roaksoax: yes
[16:14] <rvba> roaksoax: shouldn't the default come from a global config setting?
[16:15] <rvba> Rather than being hardcoded I mean.
[16:15] <roaksoax> rvba: yeah but if we do that, someone can simply set a non-supported release
[16:15] <roaksoax> rvba: but for now I'm just doing a first step
[16:15] <roaksoax> on getting this to work
[16:15] <roaksoax> rvba: and thinking that the default should be "precise"
[16:16] <rvba> The setting could be a dropdown menu with only the valid options.
[16:16] <roaksoax> rvba: right, that's what it is
[16:16] <rvba> So only supported releases would be in there right?
[16:16] <roaksoax> rvba: yes
[16:16] <roaksoax> rvba: everything seems to be working as expected but enlistment
[16:17] <roaksoax> rvba: so that's why I was wondering where should a default value be set
[16:18] <rvba> roaksoax: also, maybe you should allow Null value in there.  If this field is null, then is means to use the default distrib.
[16:18] <rvba> s/distrib/release/
[16:18] <roaksoax> rvba:     os_release = CharField(
[16:18] <roaksoax>         max_length=10, choices=UBUNTU_RELEASE_CHOICES, null=True,
[16:18] <roaksoax>         blank=True, default=UBUNTU_RELEASE.precise)
[16:18] <rvba> If someone changes the default release, then all the nodes without a specific release set will use the new default transparently.
[16:20] <roaksoax> rvba: right, so that would technically fix it?
[16:20] <rvba> roaksoax: yes.
[16:20] <rvba> roaksoax: but I would be in favor of default=None
[16:20] <roaksoax> rvba: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1191126/
[16:21] <rvba> Then if you want to change the default, change the global setting.
[16:21] <roaksoax> rvba:  but default=None is no release being set
[16:21] <roaksoax> rvba: meaning the node will have os_release = None
[16:22] <roaksoax> rvba: each node should have a release
[16:22] <roaksoax> it is just as the architecture
[16:22] <rvba> roaksoax: yeah, and we would simply add a small get_os_release method which would return the default setting in that case.
[16:22] <roaksoax> IMHO
[16:22] <rvba> That method would be used to decide which release should be used.
[16:22] <roaksoax> rvba: that would be in node.py?
[16:23] <rvba> roaksoax: yes, soemthing like http://paste.ubuntu.com/1191129/
[16:24] <rvba> s/get_or_release/get_os_release/
[16:24] <roaksoax> rvba: right, ok cool, I'll first test the null change stuff and see what happens and then will look into the rest
[16:25] <rvba> roaksoax: ok
[16:25] <roaksoax> rvba: thought, default should probably be distro-info --stable
[16:25] <roaksoax> rvba: that's what I was thinking to do instead of UBUNTU_RELEASE.precise
[16:26] <roaksoax> to simply use UBUNTU_RELEASE.default = distro-info --stable
[16:26] <rvba> roaksoax: we can initialize it with that but then if we make it a configuration option it will be in the hands of the user.
[16:26] <roaksoax> rvba: right, ok so I'll first get this working
[16:26] <roaksoax> and then we can improve the default release
[16:27] <roaksoax> and setting option
[16:27] <rvba> Sounds like a plan.
[16:33] <roaksoax> rvba: btw.. preseed.py would look similar too: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1191157/ (i need to updated it first though)
[16:36] <rvba> roaksoax: makes sense.
[16:48] <roaksoax> rvba: where does the dev inst/home/roaksoax/Desktop/project/maas-whole/maas/bin/maas createsuperuser
[16:48] <roaksoax> sorry
[16:48] <roaksoax> errr
[16:52] <roaksoax> rvba: one more thing, when I click on "Add Node" on the WebUI I can't see the ubuntu release options, but I can when editing the node
[16:52] <roaksoax> rvba: where is that?
[16:53] <rvba> roaksoax: the js code uses ./src/maasserver/templates/maasserver/snippets.html to create that form
[16:53] <roaksoax> rvba: so that should also be updated then?
[16:53] <rvba> roaksoax: yes
[16:53] <roaksoax> rvba: ok good to know
[16:54] <roaksoax> rvba: and what about the label it will use, it shoes as "Os release"
[16:54] <roaksoax> and I'd like to use just "release"
[16:54] <rvba> roaksoax: use label="xx" on the CharField
[16:55] <roaksoax> rvba: ok cool thanks
[16:55] <rvba> np
[16:59] <roaksoax> rvba: so that also needs a migration?
[17:00] <roaksoax> or needs ot be part of the migration
[17:00] <rvba> roaksoax: if you're changing a model, then there is a migration.  I recommend having one migration per change.
[17:01] <roaksoax> rvba: gotcha, thenaks
[17:43] <roaksoax> rvba: so do yo think it is a good idea to UBUNTU_RELEASE.default be obtained form a setting and then use that instead?
[17:48] <rvba> roaksoax: it allows someone to 'upgrade' the default used without having to mass-change the onfirmation stored on the nodes themselves so yeah, I think that's a good idea.
[17:50] <roaksoax> rvba: ok cool
[20:27] <tsandall> I created a VirtualBox VM and enlisted with my MAAS server. The node shows up as Declared on the MAAS 'nodes' page. When I try to boot the VM for the first time though it acquires a DHCP lease, and it looks like PXE starts before hitting an error: "Boot sector signature not found" and then dropping to a boot: prompt.
[20:29] <tsandall> the pxelinux.cfg filef for the VM's MAC doesn't reference any of the precise images, instead it's referencing chain.c32, is that correct?


[00:00] <hokmen> i don't want to broadcast the message to all, so i come here, just talk to the ubuntu team
[00:01] <hokmen> and thanks for fsf team, ubuntu team at these kinds of experements
[00:19] <frank23> is there a GUI way of mounting file systems in kubuntu intrepid?
[00:20] <Kano> well i could mount it with clicking on the icons on the left side of the filemanager
[00:21] <bsnider> that will be read-only
[00:22] <bsnider> you need a new entry in fstab if you want it permanently mounted with read/write permissions
[00:22] <frank23> Kano: bsnider: when I click those icons (like Volume (ext3) ) nothing happens
[00:22] <Kano> well it mounted ext3 here, but did not test write
[00:22] <frank23> bsnider: yeah but in KDE 3 i used to be able to modify fstab in system settings
[00:23] <Kano> usually ext3 must be set to allow others to write or you have to change the default user
[00:23] <bsnider> if you say so. i don't know why people use kde
[00:23] <bsnider> but live and let live i guess
[00:23] <frank23> kde4 is not feature complete lets say... I still run gutsy. I'm just trying out intrepid
[00:23] <joebob777as7> anyone else having issues with firefox crashing?
[00:24] <joebob777as7> I can't browse for more than 5 minutes without browser crashing. seems to be on sites with lots of flash content
[00:25] <bsnider> joebob777as7, known issue
[00:26] <bsnider> frank23, you still run that old kernel?
[00:26] <joebob777as7> bsnider, that's good. any ideas on when a fix is coming?
[00:27] <frank23> bsnider: you mean from gutsy? yeah. what changed in the kernel since then?
[00:28] <bsnider> joebob777as7, ask mozilla when they'll implement windowless mode support
[00:28] <bsnider> joebob777as7, actually it's coming in ff 3.1
[00:28] <bsnider> frank23, the linux kernel is the fastest moving software ever created. everything has changed several times over
[00:31] <arooni> when does intrepid get relased
[00:31] <danbh_intrepid> !schedule
[00:52] <joebob777as7> bsnider, do you know if by going back to FF 2 will fix crashing? or if there is a work around for now?
[00:53] <bsnider> joebob777as7, the crash is caused by flash 10's windowless mode
[00:53] <bsnider> ff doesn't support it no matter what generation you go back to
[00:53] <bsnider> you can use another browser  like epiphany
[00:53] <joebob777as7> bsnider, what about going to flash 9?
[00:54] <bsnider> joebob777as7, flash 9 isn't available in intrepid
[00:58] <DanaG> How about just disabling windowless mode?
[01:03] <bsnider> DanaG, i'm all for it
[01:03] <bsnider> let's do it
[01:03] <DanaG> I did that on my system.  It means I get back that stupid flash-over-content issue... but that's better than a crash.
[01:08] <DanaG> Linux toshOLDba 2.6.24-20-generic #1 SMP Thu Jul 24 11:00:46 CEST 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
[01:08] <DanaG> heh, that hostname is worth at least half a 'nyuk'.
[01:17] <W1MNK> unable to enter text on Unbutu 8.10 appliance, latest VMWare player running on Vista 32 Business
[01:20] <arooni________a> in newest intrepid... have they fixed:  inability to reboot consistently, needing to retype wep hex 128bit keys upon startup, wpa not working?  (rtl-8185l chipset)
[01:30] <joebob777as7> bsnider, epiphany crashes as well :( just fyi
[01:30] <JediMaster> hey guys, after doing a pretty big upgrade (380 packages after about 5 days of not doing an update!) the kernel was upgraded and the nvidia driver stopped working, so I've had to reboot into the last kernel
[01:31] <JediMaster> what's the name of the command that rebuilds the kernel modules for a new version?
[01:31] <joebob777as7> JediMaster, welcome to the club. :) has happened several times to me since alpha 3
[01:31] <JediMaster> joebob777as7: heh, I fixed it last time, as it's not the first time for me either, but I can't remember the damn command to rebuild the module lol
[01:32] <JediMaster> ahh, dkms IIRC
[01:32] <bsnider> JediMaster, reinstall nvidia-177-kernel-source
[01:32] <bsnider> are uh...you  REALLY a jedi master?
[01:33] <JediMaster> bsnider: what do you think?
[01:33] <bsnider> cause i'm a sith lord in need of a new hapless apprentice
[01:34] <JediMaster> shame, already a master
[01:35] <bsnider> so was dooku
[01:35] <JediMaster> brb, looks like that sorted it, ta
[01:35] <JediMaster> It just did the dkms command itself, thanks bsnider
[01:48] <frank23> for some reason I get almost twice the fps running world of warcraft under wine in intrepid compared to gutsy. pretty cool
[01:49] <frank23> and that's with kwin with compositing enabled
[01:50] <AtomicSpark> Yeah? I'm having python issues in Gutsy
[01:50] <AtomicSpark> My EVEs. They aren't mine. :(
[01:51] <bsnider> gutsy?
[01:52] <bsnider> why.use.gutsy
[01:54] <rickyOK> i was successful gettting the alph on my compaq  laptop.....but i am wondering, when the official release comes out, will the updates get me there.....?
[01:54] <frank23> bsnider: the main reason i never upgraded to hardy was a stupid little display bug in mythtv when running in KDE. that's been fixed too it seems
[01:54] <rickyOK> just wanted to make sure i would not have to download the whole release again.
[01:55] <jrib> !final | rickyOK
[01:55] <bsnider> rickyOK, of course the updates will be there
[01:55] <jrib> rickyOK: you know you can be in more than one channel right? :)
[01:55] <rickyOK> i was happy that the latest alpha is oprating my atheros ar5418 chipset ok.....
[01:56] <bsnider> rickyOK, i think you'll find it isn't
[01:56] <bsnider> atheros stuff isn't supported by network-manager yet. it is a bug that will be fixed in the beta release
[01:56] <rickyOK> so i was understanding it right, then? just keep updating as they come out, and i will end up with the same version as the official realease. yea?
[01:57] <jrib> rickyOK: yeah
[01:57] <rickyOK> the screen still shows the stork, i figured they would change some of those things as we go!
[01:57] <bsnider> if there's a new theme it will
[01:58] <rickyOK> jrib: yes, i know......about  more than one channel....thanks...
[01:59] <rickyOK> my atheros chipset in the belkin n express card is working right now.....and connecting, that is how i am on the irc channel.
[02:00] <rickyOK> i think the official release is for next month, right? six months after the 8.04, release; every six months....that is so good.
[02:00] <bsnider> Bug #259157
[02:01] <danbh_intrepid> thats my favorite bug!!
[02:01] <bsnider> it's now owned by a kernel guy, not alexander
[02:02] <bsnider> which is strange because i thought it was a network-manager problem, not a kernel problem
[02:02] <rickyOK> mine says it is using the "ath9" and is operating in the network manager OK. it tells me networks are available and i click on them and i am connected.....
[02:02] <danbh_intrepid> bsnider: well, they were clear, its both
[02:02] <bsnider> rickyOK, you'll have problems with it as time goes by
[02:02] <rickyOK> i am checking out the link you sent....thanks....i only use this at open hot spots.....
[02:02] <danbh_intrepid> bsnider: the drivers are buggy, and network manager worked around the bugs?  Thats why I say its both
[02:03] <bsnider> ath5k and ath9k are both considered unstable, but i think it's a network-manager issue from what alexander wrote
[02:03] <Alex_Gaynor> Is there currently a known issue where flash has no sound in Ubuntu(all packages up to date on intrepid)?
[02:04] <bsnider> Alex_Gaynor, if you're not having some kind of flash issues right now not all your dogs are barking
[02:05] <Alex_Gaynor> Hehe, was it caused by one of the very recent ff updates(within the last day or so)?
[02:05] <rickyOK> i looked at that link, and mine was kind of buggy at first....but now after doing all my updates, i have not had a problem.....anyway, i am hoping they will continue to work on that driver, at least for the faster speeds of the "n" wireless...
[02:05] <rickyOK> i am not too techy, but i like learning things.....it challenges my patience.
[02:05] <bsnider> rickyOK, atheros hired a dev to work on the driver you're now using full time
[02:06] <rickyOK> yea, i did a little reading the other night on the net....it connects but the "ON" light does not light up, but that isn't that important.
[02:06] <rickyOK> is it true that you can use the windows driver with ndiswrapper, and make it work?
[02:08] <rickyOK> i have kind of set my heart on Ubuntu, because it is actively being worked on and i like that......
[02:08] <bsnider> ndiswrapper is slow and buggy
[02:09] <rickyOK> i read an article about microsoft telling the pc makers NOT to sell a computer without an operating system...
[02:09] <bsnider> yeah, i wonder why...
[02:09] <bsnider> they don't want people looking around for something free
[02:10] <rickyOK> the likely hood is that if you want to put linux on the machine, you will have already given microsoft your money....
[02:10] <bsnider> right, the microsoft tax
[02:10] <bsnider> just build your own equipment
[02:10] <rickyOK> i think that is sort of the same thing as microsoft, with netscape: ship it with the OS, and the people will use that...
[02:10] <bsnider> or buy a linux laptop from dell
[02:11] <Alex_Gaynor> Meh, just build your own :)
[02:11] <BHSPitMonkey> I don't order pre-made desktops, and my laptop came with linux.
[02:11] <BHSPitMonkey> No MS tax here.
[02:11] <Alex_Gaynor> I don't order pre-made laptops :)
[02:11] <rickyOK> i have checked in to that: laptops pre-loaded with linux......
[02:11] <Alex_Gaynor> Where would the right place to follow flash bugs be?
[02:12] <BHSPitMonkey> You can order Thinkpads with SLED, or no os
[02:12] <rickyOK> i am hoping for something like that in the future....or get someone local to build your computer, then put on it what you want....
[02:12] <bsnider> you can order dell laptops with ubuntu
[02:12] <rickyOK> yeah
[02:12] <Alex_Gaynor> Rkc computers(google for it), sells laptops with no OS, I got a barebones from them, built my own and installed intrepid :)
[02:13] <rickyOK> for now i am stuck with the compaq V6310US.....
[02:13] <rickyOK> the broadcom wireless went out at about 14 months, so i bought an express card....to use that.
[02:14] <rickyOK> the OS does not even see the broadcom wireless anymore; it is like it does not exist...
[02:14] <neil_d> I was wondering if there was going to be a 8.04.2 release ?
[02:19] <rickyOK> hey, thanks for the help....gotta go for now....bye
[02:55] <Rezagrats> So im guessing using the alpha of Intrepid isn't too smart
[02:55] <Rezagrats> ?/
[02:55] <outbri> Rezagrats: smart?
[02:56] <Rezagrats> Like if im using it for school work and stuff.
[02:56] <outbri> Rezagrats: I've got everything working - now. The nvidia driver didn't work, I had to use 173 instead of 177.
[02:56] <outbri> But other than that, I haven't had any problems.
[02:56] <outbri> YMMV, of course.
[02:57] <Rezagrats> Ive heard some people say that their stuff gets broken, like actual hardware breaking.
[02:57] <outbri> I've gone through the last two alphas and none of that has happened.
[02:58] <Rezagrats> Well im just asking cause i don't have the money to be replacing my hardware.
[02:58] <outbri> Oh, one other thing that happened on the lastest upgrade: all my pidgin data is gone. Not that big of a deal, but not sure why it deleted it. So if you upgrade I'd backup everything.
[02:58] <outbri> If you don't want to mess around with stuff here and there, I'd recommend waiting until it comes out in October.
[02:59] <Rezagrats> I don't upgrade, fresh install always (data is backed up in a partition on the same harddrive thouhg)
[03:00] <outbri> I probably won't be doing much beta testing after this: it was too much trouble on the rest of the alphas to get my dual screens configured, various programs stuff, and all the users settings I had to redo. I'm not smart enough to be able to fix everything, though I have so far. I doubt it'll break any physical hardware.
[03:04] <DanaG> "Your browser has been updated and needs to be restarted."
[03:04] <DanaG> "Your browser has been updated and needs to be restarted."
[03:04] <DanaG> "Your browser has been updated and needs to be restarted."
[03:04] <DanaG> ... every time I go to a different page.
[03:05] <DanaG> Isn't once enough?
[03:05] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: is that really happening?
[03:05] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: if so, thats a good thing
[03:05] <Rezagrats> What browser ?
[03:05] <DanaG> Not having it pop up and go away repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly,
[03:06] <DanaG> Show it... and KEEP it there... or don't show it.
[03:06] <DanaG> SPAMMING with it is bad.
[03:06] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: is this firefox?  after a dpkg upgrade?
[03:06] <DanaG> Yeah.
[03:06] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: great!!!
[03:07] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: hehe, I know you are mad, but at least its a step forward.  If you dont restart firefox, it can break.  I was talking with someone that felt that ff should be forcibly killed after an update.
[03:08] <DanaG> Hmm, but the present behavior is obnoxious.
[03:08] <JontheEchidna> I had just the opposite experience
[03:08] <JontheEchidna> no notifications
[03:08] <DanaG> I can understand not letting one dismiss the info bar... but having it go away and then come back again, every time you click a link, is bad.
[03:08] <JontheEchidna> then javascript popups started throwing assert popups
[03:08] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: what would you like to have happen?  For me, I just get a little notifier in the upper right, suggesting I restart
[03:09] <DanaG> Hmm, it should show the info bar, and keep it there.  Not spam with it.
[03:10] <DanaG> And it should say, "must be restarted, or Firefox may begin to behave strangely."
[03:11] <danbh_intrepid> bug 274468    there is the bug, if you feel strongly, comment.  But keep in mind, this person believes that ff breaks, not just malfunctions  (I personally don't know)
[03:12] <JontheEchidna> all I've ever had are malfunctions
[03:24] <neil_d> I was wondering if there is going to be a 8.04.2 release ?
[03:25] <DBO> can anyone help with debugging a suspend problem related to the drm kernel module
[03:26] <DBO> if I remove the drm kernel module, suspend works great, if not, X hangs on resume
[03:26] <DBO> i have filed a bug report with details, but nothing seems to happen
[03:26] <DBO> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/274278
[03:32] <hansin> I updated a somewhat "minimal install" from Hardy to Intredpid.  I have an Atheros wireless card, and I assume it moved from using the MadWifi driver to the Ath9K driver.  Since it is a minimal install I have my wifi set up through /etc/network/interface (iwconfig I believe) and wpa_supplicant.  My wireless no longer works because I need to change my /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf file.  Does...
[03:32] <hansin> ...anyone know if I can make wpa_supplicant work with the Ath9k driver?  Their website did not list it at supported.  Any other suggestions?  Thanks.
[03:33] <danbh_intrepid> 259157
[03:33] <danbh_intrepid> bug 259157
[03:34] <hansin> danbh_intrepid: Thanks.  I'm going to take a look at that right now...
[03:40] <arooni> in newest intrepid... have they fixed:  inability to reboot consistently, needing to retype wep hex 128bit keys upon startup, wpa not working?  (rtl-8185l chipset)
[03:41] <danbh_intrepid> bug 259157
[03:42] <danbh_intrepid> I think nm is in the works, atm
[03:56] <hansin> I haven't really had the time to test and try to figure exactly the issue.  I just assume because I had wpa_supplicant set to use the MadWifi driver that that was the issue, since Intrepid use Ath9k instead.  I couldn't find any info where wpa_supplicant supported the Ath9k driver.  But admittedly I am not an expert in what Ubuntu or Linux has to offer in wireless option.
[03:56] <hansin> assumed
[04:27] <dTx> So is this the room for e1000e OMG!!?
[04:28] <dTx> Or is this just a room people in #ubuntu send you to make you quit yapping in #ubuntu
[04:35] <dTx> So is this channel even monitored?
[04:35] <DBO> dTx, whats up?
[04:36] <dTx> I've been reading about the e1000e problems, was mainly just wondering a) if there is a way to reflash once overwritten
[04:36] <dTx> and b) do they need ethtool dumps?
[04:37] <dTx> Where I work we have several with e1000e
[04:39] <crimsun> so, yes, there is a way to reflash, and no, "they" don't need ethtool dumps.
[04:41] <dTx> Is Intel working on a way to reflash or something?  I just couldn't find any info on that.
[04:42] <PRGUY85> hey is intrepid using packagekit?
[04:42] <DBO> crimsun, i am growing increasingly frustrated, can you help me find someone who can help me with suspend.  I know quite a bit about where the problem lays, I honestly think that if the information got to the right person it could be fixed...
[04:42] <DBO> PRGUY85, nope
[04:42] <PRGUY85> DBO, will it use it for release?
[04:42] <crimsun> dTx: Mandriva has info on contacting them to help reflash
[04:43] <DBO> PRGUY85, my guess is no
[04:43] <PRGUY85> DBO, darn it looked like a useful feature.  Makes me wanna check out Fedora10 hehe
[04:44] <PRGUY85> hey, have you all tested gnome 2.24 already on latest updates? thoughts?
[04:44] <crimsun> DBO: I know of a few people who can, but they may be very busy.  Matthew Garrett (mjg59) and Nigel Cunningham come to mind.
[04:44] <DBO> nigel is a friend, maybe he can help
[04:44] <DBO> i think honestly its a simple issue in the drm module
[05:16] <ripps> Hello, just upgraded to Intepid. Since all of Xorg is configured by HAL now, how do I tell Xorg that I want my card to render using EXA instead of XAA
[05:22] <ripps> For that matter, where can I learn how to configure HAL fdi files?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> ripps: i think you can still specify it in xorg.conf
[05:27] <Hobbsee> i think it still gets read - it just isn't required?
[05:27] <ripps> Hobbsee, how about fdi files?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> not sure
[05:28] <ripps> You'd think they'd supply more documentation on it, especially since there throwing on HAL now.
[07:56] <mickep> when I get back to my laptop after ~5 min the clock has stopped. It starts again when I "move the mouse". Is this some (power saving) setting or could it be a bug?
[08:49] <neil_d> why does the alternative CD install grub when the server CD installs lilo for the same filesystem layout ?
[09:00] <neil_d> I just installed ubuntu server, and it used the lilo boot loader, how do I generate the grub menu.list file ?
[09:48] <PecisDarbs> anyone knows how to configure built-in modem using NM? I couldn't find it.
[09:49] <LSD|Ninja> It's almost certainly a software modem so won't work under Linux without a lot of miessing around, assuming it's even able to be made to work at all
[09:51] <PecisDarbs> LSD|Ninja: let's assume that I got it to work (because it wasn't a question). I now want to configure configuration wich will set my device (be it /dev/frcomm0 or /dev/ttySL0)  and will dial where I want it to
[09:51] <PecisDarbs> it is possible in new NM?
[10:10] <ikonia> PecisDarbs: if the modem is working you should be able to configure it
[10:10] <ikonia> PecisDarbs: it should show up as a device
[10:17] <PecisDarbs> ikonia: in Edit Connections dialog?
[10:18] <ikonia> if the modem is usable/visable
[10:24] <ronny> hi
[10:28] <ronny> current ibex seems to have chenged/broken something in python, now an app im developing cant start any more
[10:31] <RAOF> This seems unlikely to be systemic; what's the error you get?
[10:32] <ronny> RAOF: i get no error, it just seems to hang somewhere
[10:33] <ronny> hmm, ishould get you guys propper informations (i see myself violation most of the smart questions faq)
[10:33] <Cheery> hi
[10:33] <ronny> well, im one of the developers of the pida ide
[10:33] <Cheery> I should get geforce 9800GTX to work on my new system
[10:34] <Cheery> tried ubuntu's own stuff for this, but it halted before X started
[10:34] <ronny> since a the last few updates the vim/emacs integrations just hang waiting on startup, i cant figure the cause
[10:35] <RAOF> ronny: Are you using compiz by any chance?
[10:35] <ronny> RAOF: no, metacity
[10:35] <RAOF> Well, that blows that one out of the water :)
[10:36] <ronny> well, i cant even get version 0.5.1 to work (thats the last one that got into ubuntu)
[10:37] <ronny> also im unhappy cause 0.6 wont make it till the intrepid release :/
[10:37] <Cheery> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 9800 GTX (rev a2)
[10:38] <ronny> RAOF: btw, something is certainly weird with the new metacity, some of the shadow effects are there, and i think i cant disable some of the xgl effects
[10:39] <ronny> (also the sessings for no effects/some effects/all effects dont work any more)
[10:39] <RAOF> ronny: So, there actually aren't any "XGL effects" - XGL is just an X server.
[10:39] <RAOF> :)
[10:39] <ronny> ah, sorry for misswording
[10:39] <RAOF> No, that's ok. :)
[10:39] <ronny> well, my windows got things like shadows
[10:40] <RAOF> So, the "no effects / some effects / all effects" buttons of System->Preferences->Appearance actually control Compiz.
[10:40] <RAOF> Although "No effects" starts metactiy rather than compiz.
[10:40] <Cheery> oh! perhaps my graphics card is not installed correctly
[10:40] <ronny> its on no effects, if i choose any of the other, it fails
[10:41] <Cheery> Xorg.0.log.old:(EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0): Your GeForce 9800 GTX/9800 GTX+ graphics card does not have
[10:41] <Cheery> Xorg.0.log.old:(EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0):     the necessary external power cables attached; X will not
[10:42] <ronny> RAOF: unfortunately i cant figure where my app hags, its completely unresponsive and i have to kill it with kill -9
[10:43] <ronny> (and thats a python app, so its pretty much royal screw up)
[10:43] <Bravo_52> ðóññêèå åñòü
[10:44] <RAOF> ronny: You could try stracing it, but that's unlikely to be terribly informative.
[10:45] <RAOF> ronny: Maybe you should turn of metacity's compositor?  It's at /apps/metacity/general/composite_manager in gconf.
[10:45] <ronny> btw, any idea if metacitys composite manager can deal with reparented windows?
[10:47] <ronny> hmm, still hangs
[10:48] <ronny> well, lets see if i can figure something by massive ultimative logging
[10:53] <ronny> ok, i managed to figure that the window service seems to stop working here
[11:20] <Stevko> Hmm, new VLC in ubuntu (although I am not sure now in which repository (medibuntu or not))
[11:20] <ronny> RAOF: ok, it pretty much hangs on gdk.threads_enter :/
[11:33] <OdnsRvns> I am just looking for a review of the alpha six how is it  goign
[11:34] <ikonia> fine
[11:34] <ikonia> some bugs,
[11:34] <ikonia> all to be expected
[11:35] <OdnsRvns> i am thinking of upgrading do you think its safe
[11:35] <OdnsRvns> i mean all in all
[11:35] <ikonia> no
[11:35] <ripps> Has anybody figured out how to make Network Manager remember the Wiif Passkeys?
[11:35] <ikonia> ripps: my 8.04 build remembers passkeys
[11:35] <ripps> ikonia: I know, mine did too. But not intrepid.
[11:36] <ikonia> ooh really, I think mines working (not got it to hand to check) but I certainly will do
[11:41]  * cwillu mutters, why must people pop in channel, ask a question, and leave 2 minutes later?
[12:31] <gnomefreak> whos is running firefox 3.0.3 in Intrepid. Not abrowser but firefox
[12:32] <gnomefreak> in help > about i need to know what it says at the end of user agent string (version running
[12:32] <gnomefreak> )*
[12:33] <mickep> mine says Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:<IP_ADDRESS>) Gecko/2008092515 Ubuntu/8.10 (intrepid) Firefox/3.0.3
[12:34] <gnomefreak> mickep: thanks
[12:35] <Stevko> There already is 3.0.3?
[12:35] <gnomefreak> yes
[12:36] <ripps> gnomefreak: Just installed it eariler and it's working great
[12:37] <gnomefreak> ripps: what?
[12:38] <ripps> gnomefreak: nevermind, I didn't finish reading you second line about firefox.
[12:58] <ripps> Why isn't Pulseaudio 0.9.11+ in Intrepid?
[13:04] <gnomefreak> when was it released?
[13:04] <gnomefreak> ripps: ^^
[13:07] <ripps> gnomefreak: it was released well over a month ago.
[13:08] <gnomefreak> well a date would be good so i know if before or after FF
[13:08] <gnomefreak> but most likely the dev didnt have time or it was released after FF or there are regressions
[13:09] <gnomefreak> or he just wanted to make you ask ;)
[13:09] <gnomefreak> ripps: crimsun would know more. did you file a bug on it?
[13:41] <ROnewbie> hi all
[13:42] <ROnewbie> i have a question - how do i go back to gutsy? i know it may sound weird to ask this question on the intrepid channel, but i'm very unhappy with both hardy and intrepid
[13:42] <ROnewbie> i've been with ubuntu since Edgy
[13:42] <Hobbsee> ROnewbie: get a gutsy disk.  install it.
[13:42] <Hobbsee> ROnewbie: there's no real other way.
[13:43] <ROnewbie> hmm... thought so. What about my /home directory
[13:43] <ROnewbie> ?
[13:43] <ROnewbie> do I just copy/paste it into the fresh install ?
[13:44] <ROnewbie> (i.e. - backup and copy)
[13:44] <IdleOne> !home
[13:45] <jrib> ROnewbie: well in general that should work.  However some programs may have changed their configs and older programs will get confused.  The safe way to do it in my opinion would be to just copy back your data and reconfig your programs
[13:45] <ROnewbie> jrib: thanks a lot. that helps.
[13:46] <ROnewbie> on another note, does anyone here know if the stability problems with heron will being fixed anytime soon?
[13:46] <ROnewbie> *will be
[13:47] <joaopinto> ROnewbie, have you reported any ?
[13:47] <ROnewbie> plenty
[13:47] <joaopinto> The major stability problems were fixed around .1
[13:48] <jrib> ROnewbie: what were some of the big issues out of curiousity?
[13:48] <edgy> Hi, how can I enable PAE support in intrepid?
[13:48]  * Hobbsee guesses:  compiz-based.
[13:48] <ROnewbie> my vlc won't work at the same time with youtube in ff, major freezing happening at random times, usb mouse would be of no use, ...
[13:48] <ROnewbie> and many others.
[13:49] <jrib> flash, yay
[13:49] <IdleOne> mice tend to run and hide when not tied up
[13:50] <ROnewbie> funny thing is that gutsy worked out footb
[13:52] <ROnewbie> any suggestions?
[13:52] <Hobbsee> yeah.    metacity --replace &
[13:53] <Hobbsee> won't help the usb mouse, but may well help the other two
[13:53] <jrib> sound?
[13:54] <jrib> well at least I assume it was sound in vlc that wasn't working at the same time as youtube
[13:54] <ROnewbie> Hobbsee: :-D ... mind the "newbie" part, please ... metacity -- replace ... =?
[13:54] <ROnewbie> jrib: yes, it's the sound i'm talking about. sorry, my mistake
[13:55] <Hobbsee> ROnewbie: type it into a terminal.
[13:55] <Hobbsee> the whole thing.
[13:55] <jrib> with no space between "--" and "replace": metacity --replace &
[13:55] <ROnewbie> got it
[13:55] <ROnewbie> did it
[13:56] <ROnewbie> i saw my desktop for a sec, then back to normal.
[13:56] <ROnewbie> so what did i just do? :-)
[13:58] <Hobbsee> ROnewbie: it turned off compiz, which is shiny bling.
[14:01] <ROnewbie> damn. everything froze
[14:01] <ROnewbie> or nearly everything
[14:01] <ROnewbie> logged out and back in
[14:01] <ROnewbie> hmm ... maybe installing intrepid while alpha was not such a good idea.
[14:03] <ROnewbie> one more question - i used hardy, and updated it daily, until about 3 weeks ago. was .1 out by then? because if it was, i didn't notice any major differences.
[14:03] <ROnewbie> same old problems
[14:04] <Hobbsee> it was out
[14:04] <ROnewbie> hmmyeah
[14:04] <ROnewbie> well then, i'm off to reinstalling gutsy, no other choice.
[14:05] <ROnewbie> but for some reason i cannot see (in addition to my usb mouse) the external harddrive i plugged in
[14:05] <ROnewbie> i need that to back stuff up
[14:05] <ROnewbie> any suggestions, anyone?
[14:16] <ROnewbie1> yep, had to cold boot it a couple of times before it saw my external harddrive
[14:16] <ROnewbie1> so i think i'll reinstall gutsy anew
[14:16] <ROnewbie1> thank you for the help.
[14:40] <los|s> is pulseaudio better configured in intrepid ibex?
[14:45] <igormorgado> not yet
[14:45] <igormorgado> =D
[14:45] <los|s> :/
[14:47] <Stevko> los|s: You can always remove pulseaudio.
[14:48] <Hobbsee> it is on my machine, now.
[15:08] <los|s> it aleays caused problems to remove pulseaudio
[15:08] <los|s> i'll see what intrepid will be
[15:09] <Rioting_pacifist> when i use sudo in intrepid i get "sudo: unable to resolve host Juan-Hardy"
[15:09] <Rioting_pacifist> i think its because i installed from debootstrap
[15:15] <igormorgado> Rioting_pacifist: check your /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname
[15:15] <bsnider> anybody still got gmail-notify installed?
[15:15] <igormorgado> Rioting_pacifist: I want 50% of your profit in that HOWTO =D
[15:18] <Rioting_pacifist> hmm got responsese in 2 channels, normally get zero :D ubuntu IRC likes me again
[15:19] <bsnider> can someone please try installing gmail-notify?
[15:19] <igormorgado> bsnider: why I should do that?
[15:19] <Rioting_pacifist> erm /etc/hostname had <IP_ADDRESS> Juan-Intrepid and hosts had <IP_ADDRESS> localhost
[15:19] <igormorgado> hostname wrong
[15:20] <igormorgado> /etc/hostname should be Juan-Intrepid
[15:20] <igormorgado> and hosts <IP_ADDRESS> localhost juan-intrepid
[15:20] <bsnider> igormorgado, to help me confirm a bug
[15:21] <igormorgado> bsnider: check in bug reports if there is anything like your problem, if dont, double-check your procedures, if its all ok but youre having really a problem, fill the bug report, assure to add every possible informations
[15:21] <Rioting_pacifist> thx
[15:21] <bsnider> yeah, thanks for the infomration. i had no idea i could do that
[15:22] <Rioting_pacifist> bsnider i cant install it im getting broken dependancies
[15:22] <bsnider> Rioting_pacifist, can you do a search in synaptic for "ligdl" please?
[15:23] <bsnider> the one with gnome in the name should have a completely different version number than the others
[15:25] <Rioting_pacifist> nah its 1-0 like the rest but it comes libgdl-gnome-1-0 instead of libgdl-1-gnome
[15:25] <bsnider> no, that's not what i'm referring to
[15:25] <bsnider> you're looking at the name of the packages, not the version
[15:25] <bsnider> look at the version column
[15:27] <Rioting_pacifist> yeah common is 2.24.0 but gnome is 0.7.11
[15:29] <bsnider> i think the problem is they didn't properly rebuild the gnome package with the rest
[15:32] <igormorgado> bsnider: is expected packages broken while in alpha stage, if you know know what that means, do not use alpha quality software
[15:32] <igormorgado> bsnider: there is to many packages and everyone is packaging and updating, things will broke before the freeze
[15:34] <bsnider> ok, so i won't report a bug then, since packages should be broken
[15:34] <igormorgado> yes. that kind of thing is REALLY expected. maybe it will be fixed soon. (1 week ) =D
[15:34] <igormorgado> bsnider: read the topic
[15:36] <Hobbsee> hmm.
[15:37] <lamalex> Did gnome-terminal remove  the keybinding configuration?
[15:37] <Hobbsee> looks like python-gnome2-extras needs another rebuild
[15:45] <Hobbsee> Rioting_pacifist: bsnider oh, that bug is already fixed.
[15:45] <bsnider> Hobbsee, Bug #274398
[15:46] <Hobbsee> bsnider: yep.  it's even through the queue now, too
[15:47] <bsnider> it hasn't hit the main repository yet
[15:48] <bsnider> i don't have access to the new version sebastien's talking about
[16:05] <anmar> Hello guys. I am trying to test today's build but when I boot off the disk, my screen is on but black. I tried switching to alternate terminals but nothing happens
[16:12] <nblracer> hello
[16:12] <anmar> nblracer: hello
[16:13] <nblracer> needs some, plus i found one bug
[16:13] <nblracer> help
[16:13] <nblracer> sorry for my bad english
[16:14] <anmar> nblracer: now worries. what is your problem. I can't promise I can help.
[16:14] <ruschi> Hi - although not stable I upgraded to 8.10. Some odd behaviour in X exists:
[16:14] <ruschi> somehow I always have us keyboard mapping at start - I have to change it with setxkbmap although xorg.conf clearly states a german layout
[16:15] <nblracer> well for the bug, the power status on my laptop does not update
[16:15] <nblracer> it offten works if i go from battery to power, and vice-versa
[16:16] <anmar> nblracer: I am not sure how upgrading to Intrepid will be different than installing it from scrathc.
[16:16] <nblracer> but if i remove the battery and go strictly to AC power, it does not recognize the change
[16:16] <anmar> nblracer: I would install alpha 6 on an empty parition and see if the issue still occurs
[16:17] <anmar> nblracer: as for the battery, did you check launchpad for a similar bug?
[16:17] <nblracer> how did you know i upgraded?
[16:18] <anmar> nblracer: oh.. sorry.. I thought you said you did :)
[16:19] <anmar> nblracer: my bad. I mixed a couple of chats together :)
[16:19] <anmar> rushi: did you try the issue on a fresh install of intrepid?
[16:20] <ruschi> no - I only got one system and upgraded using apt
[16:20] <anmar> argh... I am more butter fingers today.
[16:22] <nblracer> anmar:  not to sound like a complete idiot, how do i search for the bug, search for acpi?
[16:22] <nblracer> or gnome power manger?
[16:22] <anmar> nblracer: no worries dude.  you need to start at www.launchpad.net
[16:22] <ruschi> anmar:  in /var/log/Xorg.0.log I find in near end: Option "xkb_layout" "us"
[16:23] <anmar> nblracer: I recommend that you register so you can comment and create new bugs if you needed to
[16:24] <anmar> ruschi: I am sorry but I am no expert on keyboard layouts. One simeple thing comes to mind is to use the GNOME keyboard preference to see if that takes effect?
[16:24] <ruschi> I will check
[16:24] <ruschi> be back later
[16:25] <nblracer> anmar: already registered
[16:25] <anmar> nblracer: great :)
[16:31] <regel> Is Intrepid somewhat stable now?
[16:31] <regel> I'd finally have some time to upgrade my system to 8.10
[16:31] <anmar> regel: hehe... that is a hard question to answer.
[16:31] <anmar> regel: try the live CD and see if it works for you.
[16:32] <regel> :) the live CDs have never worked for me.. :D
[16:32] <nblracer> i think the bug is with both acpi and gnome power manger,  when i remove battiery, and re insert it, the status icon in gnome never changes or update
[16:32] <anmar> regel: then install alpha 6 on an emptry parition.
[16:32] <nblracer> kind of locks it up
[16:33] <anmar> nblracer: did you update your system to the latest in Intrepid ?
[16:33] <regel> anmar: nah, i have a laptop and a pc, i dont really need 2 stable systems
[16:33] <nblracer> acpi dose not correctly regster the difference between battery and no battery
[16:33] <regel> should i download daily or alpha?
[16:34] <anmar> regel: sweet.. then get Alpha6 and plug away... GNOME 2.24 is quite nice I must say
[16:34] <anmar> nblracer: you can look into the ACPI docs and see... as far as I can remember, you can find a lot of what you kernel is seeing by checking the /proc on your file system
[16:34] <regel> :) already looking for an image
[16:35] <anmar> regel: cdimage.ubuntu.com
[16:35] <regel> yea, but it's incredibly slow atm
[16:36] <regel> is there a mirror for cdimage.ubuntu.com?
[16:36] <anmar> regel: hmm.. not sure...
[16:37] <anmar> regel: if you google for Alpha6 you can find torrents of it available
[16:37] <nblracer> anmar, should be updated, i use synaptic package manger often
[16:37] <regel> guess that's the best way to go, thanks
[16:38] <anmar> nblracer: then in that case, I would file a bug
[16:38] <regel> oh, yes, found a mirror in finland :)
[16:38] <anmar> regel: great... torrent is the faster instead of downloading from a single source
[16:39] <regel> not with my connection, it aint
[16:39] <regel> uh, i should have done this while at university a few hours ago :S
[16:40] <regel> 2:30 h till ready
[16:41] <anmar> regel: that isn't bad ... time for a walk I guess ;-)
[16:42] <regel> :) guess so
[16:45] <nblracer> anmar: i'm browsing though /proc/apci, and all those files seem emptey when i open them with gedit
[16:45] <anmar> nblracer: hmm.. let me see. one sec
[16:48] <anmar> nblracer: hmm... then the kernel is not detecting any battery.
[16:49] <anmar> nblracer: did you check dmesg and see what the kernel shows about ACPI?
[16:50] <nblracer> the kernel see it i think since apci -V works, just wrong if there is no battery present
[16:51] <anmar> nblracer: did you google for people using the same laptop you are using. that might help shed the light
[16:51] <nblracer> good idea, will do that next. Thanks, what should i look for in dmesg?
[16:53] <anmar> nblracer: browse through it and see any messages pertaining to ACPI. Usually they are in the first 200 lines
[16:56] <nblracer> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=78380 this is very close to what i have! it dated 2005!
[16:57] <nblracer> so it may be a specific problem related to my hardware then, and not a bug with the kernel
[16:58] <anmar> nblracer: did you install another OS on it like windows?
[16:58] <anmar> nblracer: if so, did the battery work?
[16:59] <anmar> nblracer: if it did, then you hardware is ok. it could be a buggy bios, which is usually the problem with ACPI stuff.
[16:59] <nblracer> yes i'm dual boot
[17:01] <nblracer> so is this something i should report in lunchpad
[17:08] <nblracer> .
[17:13] <elupus> hmm.. just upgraded to alpha6 from alpha5, and lost network in the process
[17:14] <elupus> kernel related
[17:14] <elupus> 2.6.27-3 works, 2.6.27-4 doesn't. any thoughts on how to debug?
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> at the boot menu press e, go down to the second line and press e again
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> remove "splash" at the end of the line, press enter
[17:16] <JontheEchidna> press b to boot
[17:16] <JontheEchidna> take picture of where the boot fails
[17:16] <elupus> well boot doesn't fail
[17:16] <elupus> i get into ubunut, but no network
[17:17] <elupus> it seems it isn't loading the e1000e module
[17:17] <elupus> atleast there is no reference to it in dmesg log
[17:17] <skyjumper> whoa, elupus: i'm having that problem also. on a thinkpad t61
[17:17] <elupus> :) t60 here :)
[17:18] <skyjumper> upgraded hardy to intrepid, now policykit thinks my user isn't an admin
[17:18] <skyjumper> anyone know why that might be
[17:19] <JontheEchidna> elupus: oh, network failure. My bad :P
[17:19] <protonchris> I suspect that e1000e is blacklisted due to recent issues:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/263555
[17:19] <elupus> ouch
[17:21] <elupus> so in other words.. stay far away from that kernel for the time being.. ie 2.6.27 independent of release
[17:21] <elupus> "Once this corruption has occurred, recovery may be possible via a BIOS update, but may well require replacement of the hardware."
[17:21] <elupus> skyjumper, seems we should wait abit on intrepid :)
[17:22]  * skyjumper freaks. this is a work laptop.
[17:22] <protonchris> Not everything that uses the e100e is effected.  Just be careful.
[17:23] <igormorgado> how can software damage hardware? weird times
[17:23] <igormorgado> thiking about it one can create a worm to destroy network interfaces.
[17:23] <ali1234> igormorgado: it corrupts part of the nvram used to store mac address and settings
[17:23] <skyjumper> software could corrupt nvram for decades... but *accidentally* is a bit different
[17:24] <ali1234> i just got through reading that whole thread
[17:24] <igormorgado> for sure. but nvram should not be "writeable" from a OS. or should be protected.
[17:24] <ali1234> should be, yeah
[17:25] <igormorgado> a jumper, a flag, a pin, anything
[17:25] <igormorgado> some physical protection.
[17:25] <eklof> Hi
[17:25] <eklof> How do I save wifi password?
[17:26] <eklof> It seems like it asks me always now.
[17:31] <eklof> oh, find the bugreport now
[17:31] <eklof> sorry
[17:32] <skyjumper> is an "admin" according to PolicyKit, someone in the admin group?
[17:39] <nblracer> eklof i have the same problem/want
[17:45] <CarlFK1> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/genisoimage  "Files: no current information"
[17:45] <CarlFK1> shouldn't there be?
[17:45] <CarlFK1> I am looking for mkisofs and getting unexpected answers
[17:48] <CarlFK1> well, I found mkisofs - still surprised about "no current info"
[18:12] <Pretto> after last update i did   today,   the sound icon has gone :S
[18:12] <chrisbor> in the panel?
[18:13] <chrisbor> or the menu?
[18:13] <Pretto> chrisbor, yes.. in the panel and get no sound at  all
[18:13] <Pretto> lemme  check the menu
[18:14] <Pretto> just panel  chrisbor
[18:14] <chrisbor> try alsamixer
[18:15] <chrisbor> if it detects any soundcards at all
[18:15] <chrisbor> I have to go now, sorry
[18:15] <chrisbor> bye
[18:15] <Pretto> hehhe.. it detects
[18:45] <dystopia> hi im running intrepid on my thinkpad, and when i log in on my server with nxclient, the layout of the keyboard is fucked up. this i since i upgraded my laptop to intrepid. they up key makes a screenshot, and page up makes a /
[18:51] <TeLLuS> dystopia: me too
[19:12] <dystopia> TeLLuS: seriously?
[19:14] <anmar> dystopia: I don't think you are the first one to suffer this. I just chatted with a guy who had a similar issue related to keyboard layouts.  I suggest you checkout www.launchpad.net and see if it is a common bug so you can add your logs and information.
[19:21] <s0u][ight> !download
[19:22] <s0u][ight> !intrepid
[19:22] <s0u][ight> !getintrepid
[19:27] <dystopia> well, is it possible to remap the keys? if so, how?
[19:28] <dystopia> i found some stuff about hotkeys not working anyway, i dont know about that, but im just used to my up/down and pgup/pgdn keys
[19:30] <sysdoc> dystopia: do you have system>preferences>keyboard ?
[19:30] <lore20> hi
[19:30] <lore20> where can i get an image of intrepid without intel e1000e bug?
[19:32] <anmar> lore20: This is the bug and there are some notes about how to not hose your ehternet driver. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/263555%0A
[19:32] <dystopia> sysdoc: yes
[19:32] <lore20> I thought it was fixed in the last kernel image
[19:33] <dystopia> sysdoc: it works on my thinkpad, but it doesn't work when i use nxclient to log in on remote machine
[19:33] <dystopia> sysdoc: as in, the pgup/pgdn/up/down keys do work, but not in nxclient.. i've tried all kind of settings at system>prefs>keyboard.. nothing helps.. 'setting system wide' crashes tho
[19:35] <anmar> dystopia: have you looked into setxkbmap
[19:38] <dystopia> yeah i dont understand much of it..
[19:38] <anmar> dystopia: hehe... that makes two of us :)
[19:39] <dystopia> i read the docs and tried some stuff (using -display) but didnt help
[19:46] <dystopia> anmar: you also have this problem with nxclient?
[19:46] <dystopia> i'm starting to think its related to nxclient
[19:51] <dystopia> there are some settings at ~/.nx/config but i couldnt solve the problem using that
[19:52] <Turl> I'm having a problem updating
[19:52] <Turl> xulrunner doesn't wanna install
[19:52] <Turl> and breaks dependencies
[19:53] <Turl> Configurando xulrunner-1.9 (<IP_ADDRESS>+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu2) ...
[19:53] <Turl> /usr/lib/xulrunner-<IP_ADDRESS>/xulrunner-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libplds4.so.0d: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[19:57] <svu> is mp3 codec broken in gstreamer?
[19:58] <dystopia> http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/quirk/quirk-keymap-index.html is interesting, but the irony is that my hotkeys work fine
[19:58] <dystopia> i have no complaint about my hotkeys
[19:59] <TeLLuS> dystopia: yes, T61p, intrepid and running a NX client. I miss AltGr and the arrow keys..  I think its someting with NX..    Intrepid also disabled the ethernet after running some weeks with it.. hmm. Good I can still use wireless and also have 2.6.26 installed.
[20:00] <Turl> anyone can confirm firefox package breaks?
[20:01] <Turl> really the package that breaks is xulrunner-1.9
[20:01] <sven_oostenbrink> Will intrepid ibex finally have better WiFi drivers?
[20:01] <sven_oostenbrink> Im using a broadcomm 43xx, and at the moment I don't even know anymore which drivers Im using.. whichever driver is used, its just sad how wifi works.. :(
[20:02] <Turl> lshw -C network should say which driver you use
[20:04] <dystopia> TeLLuS: its related to nxclient because with qtnx it works
[20:08] <dystopia> with qtnx it works, although, i think not always.. maybe im wrong.. in any case my up/dn/pgup/pgdn keys did work, ill have to see how far they do work hehe
[20:08] <nblracer> howdy again
[20:09] <TeLLuS> dystopia: ok, testing,  Also upcoming krdc should have NX support if I read the KDEdigest correct..  Hmm, also miss backspace..
[20:12] <dystopia> oh im not using kde
[20:12]  * DanaG has his nvidia-glx-177 capable computer back!
[20:12] <TeLLuS> dystopia: Yes, now its working. Thank You!
[20:13] <Turl> can you please provide me with an http link to an older xulrunner-1.9 package so I can fix my system?
[20:13] <nblracer> what is the best way to trouble shoot, suspending/sleeping problems
[20:14] <Turl> i'd look for it myself, but my browser is erm... broken :p
[20:15] <TeLLuS> dystopia: Well, not able to use pipe char, but otherwise it's much better..
[20:26] <DanaG> Yay:     * Updated mode validation, in cases when no EDID is detected, such that 1024x768 @60Hz and 800x600 @ 60Hz are allowed, rather than just 640x480 @ 60Hz.   --- now I'll actually be able to use projectors!
[20:27] <sven_oostenbrink> Turl: lshw -C network gives me b43-pci-bridge.. is this wireless going to work good?
[20:28] <LSD|Ninja> broadcom, ugh
[20:28] <LSD|Ninja> It'll work, but you'll travel to hell and back only to be find you were better off in hell
[20:30] <dystopia> TeLLuS: pipe works here but you can also remap
[20:32] <TeLLuS> dystopia: Another local problem here probably, nevermind..
[20:34] <Nabor> Hello, I'm trying Ubuntu 8.10, didn't change my /etc/network/interfaces but eth0 is not working anymore. I have this device in my Lenovo T61p 00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82566MM Gigabit Network Connection (rev 03)
[20:34] <Nabor> Anybody how solved this?
[20:34] <Nabor> how = who :)
[20:38] <TeLLuS> Nabor: See, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/263555
[20:40] <Nabor> Yes I remember, that it's possible, that this kernel damage the network card
[20:40] <Nabor> But it's working under XP after reboot, so I don't fear :)
[20:40] <TeLLuS> Nabor: Also see /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-e1000e    Could probably be removed if you want to risk to damage it..
[20:41] <Nabor> But I hoped that this get's fixed much faster because it's so critical
[20:41] <calc> Nabor: well its not an ubuntu issue though it affects ubuntu, i'm sure the intel guys are trying to get it working as soon as they can
[20:41]  * DanaG thought of one idea:
[20:41] <DanaG> Why not just return everything to using the older e1000?
[20:41] <Nabor> Another Question, anybody that has wpasupplicant running with 8.10 ?
[20:42] <TeLLuS> Nabor: Use wireless instead.. :)   Well downgraded to hardy network-manager to get that to work
[20:42] <nblracer> what does ibex use for a CPU Frequency Scaling Daemon
[20:42]  * calc isn't going to run intrepid until at least beta comes out
[20:42] <Nabor> TeLLuS: I use wireless :) But it's bad, that I have to insert the WPA Key again and again after reboot
[20:43] <Nabor> besides that I had to deaktivate (remove the entry from /etc/network/interfaces) wpa_supplicant
[20:43] <DanaG> Handy hint: right-click nm-applet, go to Edit Connections, and make your network into a "System Setting"
[20:44] <TeLLuS> Nabor: I don't have to since I downgraded it.. work fine. Also tried PEAP at work.. worked fine.
[20:45] <Nabor> TeLLuS: what did you downgrade
[20:45] <Nabor> ?
[20:45] <Nabor> I have to Network Connection things in my System tray
[20:46] <Nabor> one is the nm-applet
[20:46] <cliechti> i upgraded from hardy on a eeepc. but wireless is not working. i have ath5k loaded, but no wireless network card is shown by ifconfig and iwconfig. previously it was working with madwifi but i'd like to use the new driver from the kernel now
[20:46] <Nabor> and the other one did not tell me, what it is
[20:46] <cliechti> is there something i need to clean up to get that one working?
[20:46] <TeLLuS> Nabor: Everything with network-manager..
[20:47] <cliechti> yeah the network manager diapeared here too. i had to manually install a package
[20:47] <cliechti> the network applet was split into an other packet that was not in the dependencies
[20:47] <Nabor> DanaG: what is "System Setting" what does this mean? So what will the nm-applet do than?
[20:47] <Lofde_> hi i really need some help :(
[20:48] <Lofde_> I was in the process of upgrading from 8.04 to 8.10 and when i was doing the upgrade there were several packages i guess that they didnt completely install
[20:48] <Lofde_> and im even worse off than i was
[20:49] <Lofde_> there is still hope (i hope) because i can log in to enlightment (gnome wont load), somehow many of gnomes packages got uninstalled and i cannot reinstall it
[20:49] <cliechti> Lofde_: i aborted one upgrade too, i had to run sudo dpkg --configure -a
[20:50] <Lofde_> cliechti,  i ran that several times and things kept failing
[20:50] <Nabor> Besides that, I like my wpa_supplicant much more than everything that runs, wenn Gnome is running. I remember, one or to years ago, there was an update that damages the XOrg... Gnome didn't start... I was happy, because of wpa_supplicant I had my WLAN also at command line ;)
[20:50] <cliechti> Lofde_: apt-get install --fix-missing (or similar) is also helping sometimes
[20:50] <Lofde_> like a whole huge list.. several times and then i restarted because it recommened
[20:50] <Lofde_> ahh ok
[20:50] <Lofde_> let me see if i can run that
[20:50] <Lofde_> because im trying to get gnome back and its saying Depends: system-config-printer (>=1.0.0) but it is not installable
[20:50] <Lofde_>  Depends: serpentine but it is not going to be installed and i think its because those files arent on the repos
[20:50] <Turl> any way to fix firefox???
[20:51] <Nabor> Turl: Firefox runs fine... what fix do you need?
[20:51] <cliechti> Lofde_: also run apt-get update to get the latest list and if its an upgrade, did you change all the repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[20:52] <Nabor> Anybody how has sound problems?
[20:52] <Turl> it's broken... xulrunner-1.9 won't update ok
[20:52] <Lofde_> cliechti,  i havent change the repositories at all
[20:52] <Nabor> I have on my T61p :(
[20:53] <Nabor> hmm... I don't have this problem Turl... I use Firefox 3.x
[20:53] <cliechti> Lofde_: if your upgrading to 8.10 (that is #ubuntu+1 :-) you need to have only intrepid* lines there. if you used update-manager that should have been converted automatically, but maybe check that once
[20:54] <Lofde_> alright let me check really fast
[20:54] <cliechti> take your time :-) don't do it too fast, rather precisely ;-)
[20:54] <mvo> for upgrrade to intrepid just run "update-manager -d"
[20:54] <cliechti> yep
[20:55] <Lofde_> all the lines were changes to intrepid
[20:55] <cliechti> and see your wireless network not working anymore :/
[20:55] <Nabor> cliechti: ;) it's working...
[20:55] <cliechti> Lofde_: hm, then i don't know. i upated my intrepid eeepc a hour ago and all installed fine
[20:56] <cliechti> Nabor: not here on my eeepc..
[20:56] <Lofde_> see something happened, and like update mananger -d -c it kept having problems with several packages or something, something with Mono-apache2 was holding something up and those never finished and then somehow i uninstalled all those packages using apt-get remove to remove 1 bad one (i was going to do 1 at a time, and it somehow removed 45 packages heh)
[20:56] <Nabor> does the eeepc have also wired networking?
[20:56] <cliechti> Nabor: yes, that one is fine
[20:57] <cliechti> i need it to upgrade :-)
[20:58] <Nabor> so you are lucky ;) my wired one is not working
[20:58] <Lofde_> is there a way i can tell apt-get install to install Gnome, and to take as many dependancies as it can find and ignore the 2 that it cant find on the intrepid repo?
[20:58] <cliechti> Nabor: on an eeepc?
[20:58] <Nabor> And sound is also not working
[20:58] <Nabor> no, on a T61p
[20:59] <cliechti> Lofde_: there is some --force or similar option i think
[20:59] <Nabor> And I am not shure if I like the new Human theme
[20:59] <cliechti> hm. i have not seen a difference yet
[21:00] <Nabor> One Question, I read about emphathy replacing Pidgin...
[21:00] <Nabor> when will this haben?
[21:00] <Lofde_> cliechti,  --ignore-missing ?
[21:00] <Nabor> And will my settings by automaticaly migrated?
[21:00] <nblracer> test
[21:00] <cliechti> Lofde_: ah, yes, that one sounds reasonable
[21:00] <Nabor> nblracer: test was fine :)
[21:01] <cliechti> Lofde_: but i dont know how easy it will be to install the missing ones later.. :/
[21:03] <cliechti> so no one with eeepc and ath5k (wifi) driver that can help out? mine is not working :(
[21:03] <Nabor> I'll leave for today, in Germany it's 22:03... Have a nice evening...
[21:05] <Lofde_> is there some way to sort of "restart" the install process to 8.10 to make ubuntu check to see that it DID indeed download everything it should have
[21:06] <cliechti> something like running apt-get install XXX --reinstall for each packet? -- i dont know :-)
[21:07] <Lofde_> wonder if i could just download gnome and compile it myself :(
[21:07] <cliechti> apt-get source :-)
[21:09] <cliechti> well i would not. i'd rather wait and see if the packages are fixed a day later. maybe you are downloading from different mirrors that not all are updates synchronously
[21:09] <nblracer> is there a better power management tool for ubuntu gnome  like KPowersave, that can control cpu steping, brightness, hard drive rpm
[21:10] <Lofde_> it seems like the only two packages it says it needs are not shure if I like the new Human theme
 hm. i have not seen a difference yet
[21:10] <Lofde_> ops
[21:10] <Lofde_> system-config-printer and serpentine
[21:11] <cliechti> and they are not put on "hold"? and did you try apt-get dist-upgrade?  just upgrade is sometimes not enough
[21:13] <Lofde_> ill see i saw that juse now on a fourm i was trying 1 sec
[21:19] <DanaG> Why does everyone call it an "Eeepc" (pronounced "eepk")?  It's "Eee PC" -- the name is Eee.
[21:19] <DanaG> Not eepk.
[21:21] <SwedeMike> they do? Everybody I know calls it eee-pee-cee
[21:22] <cliechti> DanaG: sorry ;-) but eeepc is the word you can actually find something with search engines.
[21:23] <DanaG> Well, I meant that I'd pronounce "eeepc" as "eepk".  Others probably do pronounce it as two words smacked together.
[21:23] <mlise> I say e-e-e-pee-cee
[21:24] <mlise> or triple-e
[21:30] <Lofde_> cliechti,  will you take a look at this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome2/+bug/273015
[21:30] <Lofde_> whoa
[21:30] <Lofde_> low :( ?
[21:30] <Lofde_> i need to install gnome.. ;/ what can i do?
[21:35] <Lofde_> i guess ill just say forget it and go with KDE until maybe this thing comes outta alpha.. or maybe use enlightment i mean its not bad all the programs are still here its just a change ;/
[21:36] <cliechti> or use ION3 ;-)
[21:39] <dystopia> TeLLuS: you know what is odd? now it doesn't work any more, even not with QtNX.. LoL :D
[21:40] <cliechti> heh, wireless is working now. blacklisting ath_pci is required as it also a driver for the same PCI ID
[21:41] <dystopia> seems like i cant play mp3..
[21:42] <cliechti> can you play the ogg file in the examples folder?
[21:43] <dystopia> nope it totally hangs
[21:43] <Lofde_> its taking a while to download the 150 mb of KDE
[21:43] <Lofde_> heh
[21:44] <cliechti> i'd rather use xfce instead of kde ;-)
[21:44] <Lofde_> id rather use gnone :(
[21:45] <cliechti> dystopia: so its a soundcard/driver problem maybe, and not a missing codec problem
[21:45] <ActionParsnip> hey all
[21:45] <ActionParsnip> qq
[21:45] <ActionParsnip> if i install the alpha intrepid
[21:45] <dystopia> pulseaudio isnt running either
[21:45] <Lofde_> for some reason since the switch now i cannot play an mp4 (aac) using audacious it says unable to connect to server some 8000 port ;(
[21:45] <cliechti> Lofde_: well, if its only these two packages, i'd the the ignore missing option
[21:45] <ActionParsnip> when its released will my packaged apps upgrade to release grade?
[21:46] <Lofde_> i tried to install using "sudo apt-get install --ignore-missing gnome" and every combination didnt work, i dont have a good example of the syntax to go off of :(
[21:46] <cliechti> ActionParsnip: yes. but until then you might face problems that are not easily solvabe
[21:46] <ActionParsnip> cliechti: as long as it browses the web and plays mp3s i'm reet
[21:47] <dystopia> when i closed firefox it worked :-)
[21:47] <cliechti> ActionParsnip: if you want to get help from #ubuntu, stick with hardy, and upgrade in one month.
[21:47] <dystopia> say, has anyone used projectM (Milkdrop for UNIX)?
[21:48] <dystopia> i never see the plugin in totem
[21:48] <cliechti> dystopia: are you using different auto drivers in the applications? try to set up pulse audio output for all
[21:48] <cliechti> s/auto/audio
[21:48] <ActionParsnip> cliechti: my use is limited so should be ok, im waiting the month as my install is ok except frets on fire is weird
[21:49] <dystopia> thanks for the suggestion everything is now set at pulseaudio
[21:50] <cliechti> ActionParsnip: you get the very same firefox on hardy and intrepid right now. so for surfing the web you dont have a real advantage. but for hardy you'll get security upgrades in time
[22:00] <ActionParsnip> im fairly security concouos
[22:01] <yao_ziyuan> i'm in kubuntu intrepid alpha 6. there is NetworkManager running. i wonder if it is necessary?
[22:06] <Exilant> networkmanager is nice
[22:06] <Exilant> but if you aren't using a laptop, probably not neccessssary
[22:07] <bersace> Hi
[22:07] <bersace> How to invert ZAxisMapping without xorg.conf ?
[22:15] <cliechti> place your chair on the other side of the desk ;-) now seriously, maybe ask in a xorg related channel. they might know a tool. but whats wrong with xorg.conf anyway?
[22:16] <cliechti> bersace: ^
[22:16] <bersace> cliechti: i guess that'a about xinput
[22:16] <bersace> thx
[22:18] <bersace> cliechti: the answer is xinput  set-button-map 6 1 2 3 4 5 7 6
[22:18] <bersace> :)
[22:18] <bersace> where the first 6 is the xid of the mouse
[22:19] <cliechti> ah. so i could possibly use this command to try to config my mouse too. the horizontal scroll functions of my 4 way wheel are not working
[22:21] <o0Chris0o> anyone else having issues with white backgrounds on icons in the system tray?
[22:22] <cliechti> no, what do you have for "problems"? patterns? wrong color?
[22:23] <iddo> i updated ubuntu (ibex) and now in alsamixer i only have playback and capture, and microphone doesn't work anymore because of this update... any idea how to restore it?
[22:24] <cliechti> iddo: you checked the "settings" in the volume control window? you can enable/disable individual sources
[22:24] <iddo> when i try sound recorder it says it cannot get settings from resource
[22:25] <iddo> all is enabled in volumecontrol or alsamixer, but there used to be more options there....
[22:26] <iddo> actually, only in alsamixer there used to be more options
[22:26] <iddo> in gnome volume control all the options are still there
[22:27] <cliechti> is there an other audio driver in the dopdown box available? i have 5 drivers, alsa, oss, and pulse audio mixers..
[22:27] <iddo> for example there used to be idigital switch in alsamixer, now it's gone (but it's still in gnome volume control)
[22:27] <cliechti> the pulse audio mixers only have on channel here
[22:28] <iddo> yes in dropdown hda intel (alsa mixer) is selected
[22:28] <iddo> yes there are 5 options in dropdown
[22:29] <iddo> oops ispeaker not idigital in what i said above.. not sure what it is though
[22:31] <cliechti> we are speaking of the alsamixer command line tool, right? did you press F5 there?
[22:31] <iddo> when i disabled ispeaker sound doesnt work... it used to be in alsamixer
[22:31] <cliechti> that should show all channels
[22:31] <iddo> yes cmd line tool
[22:32] <iddo> in alsamixer i press tab too get to all, it has less options..
[22:32] <cliechti> and i had to start alsamixer -c 0  to show the real sound card. by default it has shown a pulse audio source
[22:32] <cliechti> ah yes, tab is wokring fine too
[22:32] <iddo> ah!
[22:33] <iddo> alsamixer -c 0 shows everything again
[22:33] <iddo> but how to get microphone to work again... ?
[22:37] <Alex_Gaynor> Does anyone know what the status of flash on Ibex is?
[22:40] <Lofde_> oh man :( im so grr
[22:40] <Lofde_> I finally was able to install KDE ,
[22:41] <Lofde_> but i can not still get GNOME back, because i cant do ' apt-get install gnome ' due to that bug :(
[22:42] <cliechti> Lofde_: you did not start with the standard gnome or kde CDs?
[22:46] <iddo> should i try to reinstall pulseaudio or alsa?
[22:46] <iddo> if i try apt-get remove on them then it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop
[22:47] <cliechti> you can reinstall without removing. but thats usually only good if oyu lost or destroyed files
[22:48] <iddo> i didnt do anything other than apt-get upgrade
[22:48] <iddo> how to reinstall without removing?
[22:49] <cliechti> apt-get install <package-name> --reinstall
[22:49] <iddo> maybe i should try to compile the latest alsa from source?
[22:49] <iddo> thanks
[22:49] <cliechti> uh.. well what do you expect to fix? the channel selection or the microphone?
[22:49] <iddo> microphone
[22:50] <iddo> it used to work well.. in empathy voice chat
[22:50] <cliechti> the application you use to record, is it set up correctly?
[22:50] <iddo> and gnome-sound-recorder
[22:51] <cliechti> oh i get an error there too..
[22:51] <iddo> what could i set up in gnome-sound-recorder
[22:51] <iddo> hm
[22:52] <cliechti> i usually use audacity. and this still works fine
[22:52] <iddo> o
[22:52] <Lofde_>  cliechti  the cds?
[22:52] <Lofde_> i upgraded from 8.04 to 8.10 through the internet
[22:52] <cliechti> Lofde_: did you install from a live cd? then you already have either gnome, kde or xfce
[22:52] <Lofde_> is there an ISO i can download somewhere if 8.10 to try to do like a repair install over my current installation lol
[22:53] <iddo> trying to install audacity now to test it..
[22:53] <Lofde_> i did at one point install from a live cd.. 8.04 and i did have gnome until i updated to 8.10
[22:53] <cliechti> Lofde_: yes, there are alpha versions of 8.10 available
[22:53] <Lofde_> somehow remember through the upgrade the gnome wouldnt load
[22:53] <Lofde_> do you have a link to the iso ?
[22:54] <cliechti> Lofde_: no, sorry, i used the upgrade method too.. and here it worked to upgrade gnome to 2.24
[22:55] <Lofde_> yea i had something happen that canceled the install..
[22:55] <Lofde_> so then i had to continue using a "dpkg  -configure -u " or something to that
[22:55] <Lofde_> KDE is weird.. like there are no minimize, close, maximize buttons at all for some weird reason..
[23:00] <cliechti> Lofde_: hm. did you remove something so that you cant install it again? if it was installed before and refuses to upgrade, it should simply stay at the old version..
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> Lofde_: that's not normal
[23:01] <Linux_Galore> When is the beta release due please ?
[23:03] <Linux_Galore> found it, Octorber 2
[23:03] <Lofde_> I cannot install gnome due to this issue .. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/miro/+bug/274496
[23:05] <Lofde_> wait i dont think that was the bug
[23:07] <Lofde_> here is the bug :( https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/meta-gnome2/+bug/273015
[23:08] <iddo> i actually lost sound completely...  all sound apps dont play any sound
[23:08] <Lofde_> somehow i had gnome on 8.04, during the upgrade to 8.10 some packages didnt download, i think the internet got D/ced(wireless) when i reconnected i restarted the upgrade but it was sorta of messed up already, it kept downloading all the packages and then during the install of packages it had issues, i kept pushing it through the install and eventually it restarted into enlightenment, then i tried to push it to install gnome a
[23:08] <Lofde_> nd was getting that error, its been an uphill battle :) but a fun learning experience
[23:09] <iddo> i think it's because i only see correct controls with alsamixer -c 0
[23:09] <iddo> is there a way to make it behave like before the update? i only typed alsamixer and it showed all correct volume controls
[23:10] <iddo> or some other way to fix it to make sound work again..?
[23:12] <Lofde_> i wonder if i might just skip intrepid and jump stright to 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope with all this crap im going through :))
[23:14] <cliechti> Lofde_: well, you are playing around with APLHA software. try it again in a month and it will be much better. and then if you cant repair it, reinstall from scratch from one of the CDs
[23:14] <Lofde_> well i have no real way of going back now :) i mean im not too upset using KDE..
[23:14] <Lofde_> i think if somehow the dependancy bug was fixed
[23:14] <Lofde_> that i showed on that website
[23:14] <iddo> the gnome sound prefs test fails when i try to set it as alsa.. cannot access device.. other options like pulse just dont play anything
[23:14] <Lofde_> i would be able to install gnome, i would be back in business
[23:15] <Lofde_> although it says "Low, Confirmed " i dont know how long it would take for them to release a fix
[23:16] <xomp> I want install Kubuntu Installing Kubuntu 8.10 intrepid Ibex Alpha 6 using a USB-CD  (USB-HDD),  In the BIOS I use USB-HDD  and no problem , but when the installation start I have an error In the kubuntu installer main menu for default want detect and mount CD , but I only have a usb CD,  so I can't install the kubuntu.
[23:21] <xomp> to make things clearer, I can't install kubuntu 8.10 intrepid ibex alpha 6 via my external USB CD-ROM onto my USB-HDD :)
[23:25] <cliechti> xomp: i managed to install hardy from a USB memeory stick to a USB SD reader. copying the CD contents to the usb stick and replacing isolinux with syslinux was not complicated (there are wiki pages about this)
[23:25] <cliechti> the trick there was to copy the hidden folder that identifies the usb srick as source for the installer
[23:25] <cliechti> but i'm not sure if that is really related to your problem xomp
[23:29] <lubosz> hi
[23:29] <lubosz> how do i disable warnings as errors in make?
[23:30] <cliechti> that is more a problem of the compiler that is called than it is for make
[23:30] <lubosz> cc1plus throws the error
[23:30] <cliechti> -Werror is a gcc switch that makes warnings to errors for example
[23:31] <lubosz> cc1plus: warnings being treated as errors
[23:31] <lubosz> so i have to edit the makefile?
[23:31] <lubosz> there is no switch in the makefile afaik
[23:33] <Exilant> if i search for linux-image in adept, i get no hits. i find that a bit weird, what kind of system does it use?
[23:33] <Exilant> seems to be neither xapian nor apt-search


[05:06] <KGB-0> libcanberra Heather Ellsworth 285497 * commented merge request !4 * https://deb.li/9nKM
[06:42] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[07:20] <duflu> Hi oSoMoN
[07:24] <jpnurmi> hey duflu oSoMoN
[07:25] <duflu> Hi jpnurmi
[07:28] <oSoMoN> hey duflu & jpnurmi
[07:39] <didrocks> good morning
[07:40] <jpnurmi> hey didrocks
[07:44] <didrocks> hey jpnurmi
[08:32] <jibel> good morning all
[08:34] <pieq> hello everyone!
[08:48] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks, jibel, pieq
[08:48] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN, pieq
[08:49] <jibel> Salut oSoMoN
[08:51] <seb128> goood morning desktopers
[08:51] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[08:52] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
[08:53] <oSoMoN> la nuit a été courte, mais ça va, et toi?
[08:56] <seb128> un peu pareil, réveillé à 1h pour un biberon et à 6h pour un pb de pile dans la veilleuse :-/
[09:03] <oSoMoN> :/
[09:04] <didrocks> salut seb128
[09:04] <seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
[09:05] <didrocks> ça va, merci :) Nuit tranquille ici
[09:05] <seb128> veinard :-)
[09:05] <didrocks> ouais, mais bon, pas de nounou encore pour cause covid, chacun sa croix :p
[09:12] <jibel> salut seb128 oSoMoN
[09:14] <seb128> lut jibel, en forme ? ;-)
[09:15] <jibel> oui, tout va très bien :)
[09:15] <seb128> didrocks, on a le droit à ça aussi là, crèche fermée encore pour la semaine à cause de cas chez les employés :-/
[09:18] <schopin> Hi desktopers! Back for ppp again (under your umbrella as a NM dependency, I believe). It depends on OpenSSL, and it has basically no build-time testing nor any autopkgtest. I don't suppose you know of a test protocol somewhere that I could manually run?
[09:19] <didrocks> seb128: on verra si ce n’est que le début ou si ça s’améliore avec le temps…
[09:26] <duflu> Morning didrocks, jibel, seb128
[09:28] <jibel> Good morning duflu
[09:36] <KGB-0> libcanberra Gunnar Hjalmarsson 285523 * commented merge request !5 * https://deb.li/3JvGj
[09:41] <didrocks> hey duflu
[10:16] <seb128> didrocks, oui :-/
[10:17] <seb128> schopin, sorry, I don't think we have anyone who knows or maintain it, we basically inherit from Debian and do merges, I'm not even sure we have anyone with hardware for testing it
[10:19] <KGB-0> libcanberra Olivier Tilloy 285532 * commented merge request !5 * https://deb.li/3CbPF
[10:20] <schopin> seb128: fwiw most uses of ppp don't necessitate any specific hardware. But yes, I can see how this package would be a bit outside your wheelhouse :)
[10:21] <seb128> schopin, if it's blocking the transition I would just upload what you think is right, we will get reports if it's buggy and it's still early in the cycle.
[10:22] <schopin> A simple no-change upload would be nice. I tested the build locally this morning and it went fine.
[10:22] <seb128> schopin, and see, my comment shows how little I know about what ppp is doing exactly, I though it was essentially dealing with modems
[10:23] <seb128> schopin, feel free to upload one, or do you want us to do that?
[10:23] <schopin> I'll lump it in my list of main packages to upload and bother someone on my team then, it'll be easier.
[10:23] <seb128> thanks
[10:25] <KGB-0> libcanberra ubuntu/master b306695 Heather Ellsworth debian/ (6 files in 2 dirs) * Merge branch 'debian/master' into ubuntu/master * https://deb.li/36Bmd
[10:25] <KGB-0> libcanberra tags b306695 Olivier Tilloy ubuntu/0.30-8ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/OrD4
[13:06] <schopin> Me again! Any plans on updating freerdp2 from 2.3.0 to 2.4.1 this cycle? That last one brings OpenSSL 3 support. Alternatively, I have a patch ready (LP: #1945771)
[13:51] <seb128> schopin, we will not be surprised at this point if I tell you again that we usually get that one from Debian and have no real dedicated maintainer which an answer for you? ;-)
[13:52] <seb128> schopin, I would like to see it updated though, the update has some CVE fixes and performance improvements that would be nice to get for the LTS. I see Debian reports about the CVE but no reply from the maintainer so far
[13:54] <seb128> schopin, whether you want to upload the patch or wait probably depends on how much of how close you are to finish the openssl transition
[13:55] <schopin> TBH I'd rather update to a newer upstream than carry a patch, that makes it easier to detect issues down the line.
[13:55] <seb128> schopin, when do you need the update done? I can work on that, but that seems more likely a monday thing than before eow at this point
[13:57] <schopin> I'm in a marathon, not a sprint. THis package might block a few others down the line (I think?) but it's not the only one by far.
[13:58] <schopin> Monday sounds fine to me :)
[14:01] <seb128> k, I will work on the update
[14:02] <schopin> Thanks a lot!
[14:03] <GunnarHj> seb128, schopin: I just sponsored it. Isn't it preferable to get the transition done ASAP?
[14:05] <seb128> GunnarHj, shrug :-(
[14:06] <GunnarHj> seb128: Saw your discussion only afterwards.. :/
[14:06] <seb128> ah ok, already then
[14:06] <seb128> alright
[14:07] <seb128> GunnarHj, from what I understand from the backlog that transition isn't going to be over this week in any case, so waiting a few days to do the update isn't going to delay anything
[14:07] <schopin> GunnarHj: short term, yes (notably for my own sanity). But from a security standpoint I'd rather carry as few OpenSSL-related patches as possible.
[14:07] <seb128> GunnarHj, thanks for doing some sponsoring :-)
[14:07] <schopin> yes, that too ^ :-)
[14:07] <seb128> GunnarHj, and sorry, I didn't even say hey, how are you doing?
[14:08] <GunnarHj> schopin: Ack.
[14:09] <GunnarHj> seb128: yw. I'm alright, thanks. Hope you are as well.
[14:26] <seb128> GunnarHj, I am, thanks!
[14:29] <oSoMoN> hey GunnarHj, I rebuilt the firefox snap in the candidate channel with the new snapcraft for all supported architectures, and consequently I closed the candidate/snapcraft6 branch
[14:31] <GunnarHj> oSoMoN: Thanks for the hint. Then I'll switch channel again.
[14:31] <GunnarHj> * True winter here. -4°C and snowing.
[14:32] <oSoMoN> GunnarHj, I the switch might happen automatically, when a channel you were tracking is closed
[14:32] <oSoMoN> i.e. candidate/snapcraft6 will fall back to candidate
[14:32] <GunnarHj> Ok, good.
[14:32] <oSoMoN> s/I the switch/I think the switch/
[14:32] <oSoMoN> so it was just a FYI
[14:54] <seb128> didrocks, sorry but I ended up sending another MIR your way, bug #1952924, it basically replace the wireplumber one for this cycle
[14:55] <seb128> didrocks, hopefully it's an easy one, it's a split of code that was part of pipewire until impish
[15:19] <didrocks> we will dispatch it at our next meeting
[15:19] <didrocks> but second time reviewing a MIR for nothing, as we need to rereview it one propsoed next cycle
[15:20] <didrocks> I’ll look for the correct status to set there
[15:20] <didrocks> however, you need to subscribe ubuntu-mir on the second MIR for us to pick it up
[15:22] <seb128> didrocks, ah right, thanks. Well it's not nothing, we still want pipewire default and will need wireplumber, but that's post LTS now
[15:23] <seb128> sorry, we lack an audio maintainer, I'm still unsure what's the right decision between those
[15:23] <seb128> I mean I decided to go that way but I'm not confident it's the right choice, but we need to make one
[15:23] <didrocks> no worry


[03:12] <pteague> crap, trying to set up a new mythtv backend & apparently for some reason it decided to connect to my old backend & update it's database which is apparently leaving me in a state of being screwed... my old frontend can't connect to it (database is wrong version) & the frontend i just installed on my desktop can't connect because the protocol is wrong
[03:13] <pteague> trying to run the mythbackend on the old backend is giving me an error that the mythtv database has a newer tv schema (1254) than expected (1244)
[04:41] <mrand> pteague: if you need to go back, I think it generally makes a backup before an upgrade.  Of course, I think it typically makes you say "yes" to the upgrade in the first place.
[12:48] <ohadlevy> i just realized that my nvidia card send over dvi instruction to the tv that is has audio, therefor my 3.5i connection does not work
[18:16] <Roed> Hi, i just installed Mythbuntu with a pinnacle pctv 330e device. When i scan for channels i only get radio. I really dont know what i am doing wrong. Any help would be very appreaciated. Thanks in advance
[18:40] <dewman> mythbuntu website down?
[18:40] <superm1> man again?
[18:40] <superm1> Daviey, ^
[18:46] <dewman> only reason i noticed is that I am working on a second backend and wanted to enable autobuilds. =)
[18:52] <superm1> dewman, you can do so manually using the autobuilds pppa too
[18:52] <superm1> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/+archive/repos
[18:52] <Zinn> [edge.launchpad.net] Mythbuntu Repo Managment : âMythbuntu Developersâ team
[18:53] <dewman> superm1, well that would make sense. =)
[18:53] <dewman> doh
[19:23] <Daviey> err
[19:23] <Daviey> fss
[19:31] <Daviey> fixored
[20:02] <superm1> Daviey, whys it keep dying lately?
[20:38] <Daviey> superm1: There was a power outage, and when it booted - the hard disk had an issue that needed fscking
[20:38] <Daviey> so it was @ busybox
[20:38] <Daviey> superm1: uploaded dpkg yet?
[21:24] <superm1> Daviey, your server was down yesterday
[21:24] <superm1> is it back?
[21:24] <Daviey> superm1: yes.. that was the power cut :/
[21:24] <superm1> Daviey, well what's the url for the diff now?
[21:25]  * Daviey looks at the logs
[21:26] <Daviey> superm1: http://pb.daviey.com/PA7Q/raw/
[21:26] <Zinn> [pb.daviey.com]
[21:46] <mrand> Daviey: funny.  There is a -k related bug of a different flavor: Bug 652183
[21:46] <Zinn> Bug 652183 in tar (Ubuntu) "tar 1.23-2 enters dead loop on extracting symlinks with -k option" [Medium, Triaged] http://www.launchpad.net/bugs/652183
[21:47] <Daviey> heh
[21:48] <Daviey> mrand: Why not have a crack at tackling it for Lucid SRU?
[21:50] <mrand> Daviey - my understanding is that the loop on symlinks wasn't in Lucid.
[21:51] <Daviey> mrand: /me shrugs
[21:52] <mrand> the way it was introduced on ubuntu-bugs a few days ago made me believe it is new to 10.10