[18:38] <agunturu> Trying to use JUJU for the first time. Just wanted to find if charm actions can be accessed in the JUJU UI?
[18:39] <hatch> hi agunturu
[18:39] <agunturu> Hi hatch
[18:39] <hatch> They have not yet been implemented in the GUI _yet_
[18:39] <agunturu> Ok. Thanks.
[18:40] <hatch> agunturu: they are certainly on the 'to do' list - but if you wanted to be kept up to date on their progress feel free to file an issue here: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/issues
[19:18] <agunturu> Hi hatch, is it possible to list the actions and parameters for the actions using CLI?
[19:19] <agunturu> I only can see the list of actions using “juju action defined"
[19:20] <hatch> agunturu: I think there is a --descritpion flag
[19:20] <hatch> sorry it's been a while :)
[19:20] <hatch> description
[19:20] <hatch> --description
[19:21] <hatch> (third time is the charm)
[19:25] <agunturu> Tried that but looks like description is at the action level.
[19:25] <agunturu> ubuntu@juju:~/mwc16charms/trusty/clearwater-juju$ juju action --description defined ims-a
[19:25] <agunturu> juju action defined: no description available
[19:27] <hatch> ahh, nope I'm not sure then sorry - you may have better luck in #juju
[19:27] <hatch> oh I see you also asked there :)
[19:27] <hatch> there is also the juju mailing list if no one pops in in #juju to answer your question https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/juju
[19:27] <hatch> OR on askubuntu :)
[19:28] <agunturu> .hanks for you help. Regards
[19:28] <hatch> :) np
[20:39] <stokachu> anyone succesfully connected to juju 2.0 api server?
[20:58] <urulama> stokachu: with gui? no, internal API changes broke GUI compatibility with latest GUI 2.0
[20:59] <stokachu> yea i had to redo how our library connected with it
[20:59] <stokachu> even the param keys changed name :(
[20:59] <stokachu> https://github.com/Ubuntu-Solutions-Engineering/macumba/blob/jujuv2/macumba/__init__.py
[20:59] <stokachu> if youre interested
[21:02] <urulama> did you try it with aplha2? i am surprised that all those SetEnvironment* calls still work
[21:02] <urulama> Or anything with Environment it actually
[21:04] <stokachu> i actually haven't tried those environment calls yet
[21:04] <stokachu> just the basic ones like status/deploy
[21:04] <stokachu> with alpha2
[21:05] <stokachu> currently going through all the facades and refactoring this library
[21:08] <stokachu> yea there isn't even a facade for environment anymore
[21:08] <stokachu> those definitely won't work
[21:08] <urulama> At least all Environment calls will get renamed to Model, also i think GetEnvironmentConstraints is now GetModelChanges ...
[21:08] <urulama> and EnvironmentManager is renamed to ModelManager
[21:09] <stokachu> i see the ModelManager facade but not one for Model
[21:09] <stokachu> there is a Controller one
[21:10] <urulama> it's best if you ping on juju-dev channel and get them help you with the migration to v2


[11:47] <MohamedAlaa98> hi Wahid :)
[11:47] <MohamedAlaa98> hi Mahmoud :)
[11:47] <Wahid> hi
[11:48] <MohamedAlaa98> اهلا بيكم في الشانل :)
[11:50] <MohamedAlaa98> Wahid هو انت Garib Wahid?
[11:51] <MohamedAlaa98> أزيك mahmodsabry
[11:51] <MohamedAlaa98> :)
[11:52] <mahmodsabry> الحمد لله تمام
[11:52] <MohamedAlaa98> منور الشانل :)
[11:52] <mahmodsabry> منورة بيكم
[12:06] <abdelrahmanbon> hello
[12:10] <MohamedAlaa98> hi abderhamanbon
[12:10] <abdelrahmanbon> hello
[12:10] <MohamedAlaa98> الشانل منور بيك :)
[12:11] <abdelrahmanbon> دا نورك
[12:15] <abdelrahmanbon> python
[15:59] <anwar_elmakrahy> it seems that its the first time i join this channel :$ xD :D
[15:59] <anwar_elmakrahy> how are you guys :D?
[18:38] <cseslam> السلام عليكم
[18:57] <cseslam> Seif
[18:59] <seiflotfy> hey cseslam
[18:59] <seiflotfy> so i am hacing a hackfest at my place sometimes between 9th and 21st of july
[18:59] <cseslam> Hey Bro
[18:59] <seiflotfy> working mostly on zeitgeist
[18:59] <seiflotfy> and zeitgeist related ubuntu task
[18:59] <seiflotfy> we got those tasks from canonical itself
[18:59] <cseslam> great, in cairo ?
[18:59] <seiflotfy> yeah
[19:00] <seiflotfy> we will arrange a place for you to stay
[19:00] <cseslam> isa i will be there in cairo maybe on 10 huly
[19:00] <cseslam> july*
[19:00] <cseslam> i have a place to stay no worries
[19:01] <cseslam> in "Agouza"
[19:04] <seiflotfy> awesome
[19:08] <seiflotfy> cseslam: what other languages can you hack in
[19:08] <seiflotfy> ?
[19:11] <seiflotfy> cseslam: ping ping
[19:14] <cseslam> i have a little bit experience with c, but just a little
[19:14] <cseslam> also good with php
[19:14] <cseslam> was trying 'Vala' 2 days ago
[19:15] <seiflotfy> cseslam: do you want to do a big contirbution that will be used by gnome, kde and ubuntu
[19:15] <seiflotfy> i have a python script i need translated into vala
[19:15] <seiflotfy> are you up for that?
[19:15] <seiflotfy> 300 lines of python
[19:16] <seiflotfy> if you do that it will land into zeitgeist-datahub and will be used by "empathy" and "folks"
[19:16] <seiflotfy> which are used in gnome and unity :D
[19:19] <cseslam> i could give it a try
[19:19] <cseslam> but i am not that good with vala
[19:19] <cseslam> but i can try
[19:27] <seiflotfy> cseslam: its worth a try buddy
[19:28] <seiflotfy> cseslam: come to #zeitgeist
[19:32] <MohamedAlaa98> hi ceslam :)
[19:32] <MohamedAlaa98> *cseslam
[19:34] <cseslam> hi m7md
[19:34] <seiflotfy> cseslam: join #zeitgeist
[19:34] <cseslam> coming
[19:34] <MohamedAlaa98> what about me?
[19:35] <MohamedAlaa98> :)
[19:36] <seiflotfy> MohamedAlaa98: dont ask
[19:36] <seiflotfy> come
[19:37] <MohamedAlaa98> :)
[19:41] <MohamedAlaa98> cseslam: why you didn't joined?
[19:42] <cseslam> sry i have some problem here, 1 min ><
[19:42] <MohamedAlaa98> type /join #zeitgeist
[19:42] <cseslam> i am there now


[20:00] <airurando> evening
[20:01] <czajkowski> airurando: howdy
[20:01] <airurando> hi czajkowski
[20:02] <airurando> thanks for the match tweets today
[20:02] <czajkowski> lol
[20:02]  * airurando was at work :(
[20:02] <airurando> it's great it didn't count for anything
[20:03] <airurando> delighted to see Ubuntu Hour Dublin being discussed again
[20:03] <airurando> fair play to slashtom
[20:09] <czajkowski> aye
[20:32] <airurando> czajkowski: were you at the last geeknic in Stephens Green?
[20:33] <airurando> if so where did folks meet up?
[20:45] <airurando> never mind
[20:46] <airurando> I see a meeting place has already been identified
[20:47] <airurando> http://geeknic.org/?p=156
[20:48] <airurando> need to get this onto the LoCo dir and also up on the website.
[20:48] <airurando> will get this done on Monday.


[03:35] <Roguehorse> I won in my custody hearing today at court: joint legal custody.
[03:35] <Roguehorse> it was a good day =)
[03:55] <nhandler> Congratulatoins Roguehorse !
[03:56] <Roguehorse> Thank you! She pushed for 100% both but only had heresy to support 100% legal.
[03:57] <ianorlin> Roguehorse: I think you mean hearsay
[03:57] <ianorlin> heresy means something completely different
[04:06] <Roguehorse> yes =) my bad
[04:07] <Roguehorse> either way, all she had was "he said ... " which the court counselor attorneys said wasinsufficient to prevent joint custody.
[04:10] <ianorlin> yeah
[04:27] <Roguehorse> so it was just a REALLY good day now that that's over and done. That was the biggest hurdle. I was not about to give up "all rights" to my son. NO WAY!!


[04:59] <sally10> is this a South African channel?
[05:13] <Kilos> morning all
[05:13] <Kilos> hi sally10 welcome to ubuntu-za
[05:14] <sally10> hi Kilos
[05:14] <Kilos> are you here for ubuntu help or have you come to help us?
[05:15] <sally10> is this about the linux flavor, or the real Ubuntu?
[05:15] <Kilos> the linux flavour
[05:15] <sally10> oh
[05:15] <sally10> I was looking for South African channels
[05:16] <sally10> are there any? like social channels?
[05:16] <Kilos> hang around, someone will let you know.
[05:17] <sally10> ok, sure
[05:17] <Kilos> i see you know irc so thats good
[06:28] <Kilos> hi charl_
[07:07] <Kilos> morning nlsthzn
[07:11] <nlsthzn> hiya uncle Kilos
[07:49] <kbmonkey> morning Kilos - I see your appeal
[07:50] <Kilos> ah thats good
[07:50] <Kilos> morning kbmonkey
[07:50] <kbmonkey> yes
[07:50] <Kilos> hope it gets some results
[07:50] <kbmonkey> holds thumbs and tails
[07:50] <Kilos> hahaha
[07:51] <kbmonkey> I wish I had some breakfast today. I feel hungry!
[07:51] <Kilos> installing kubuntu 13.10 on other pc
[07:51] <kbmonkey> nice
[07:51] <kbmonkey> Im playing with Milkytracker
[07:51] <Kilos> aw aint you got pronutro?
[07:51] <kbmonkey> no man that is babys food
[07:52] <Kilos> it is the healthiest cereal out there
[07:52] <kbmonkey> ;)
[07:52] <Kilos> can be fed to anything even goldfish
[07:52] <kbmonkey> I got roasted and rolled oats muesli thing
[07:52] <Kilos> so pretend you a baby at times and get some
[07:52] <kbmonkey> I like that plan as long as I dont have to wear diapers
[07:53] <Kilos> rofl
[07:53] <kbmonkey> rofl
[07:53] <Kilos> seriously healthy food that you can live on it
[07:54] <Kilos> and its very lekker,
[07:55] <kbmonkey> I just pulling my leg. I like pronuto I just don't have any today. needs shopping trip.
[07:55] <Kilos> lol
[07:56] <kbmonkey> fridge is empty!
[07:56] <Kilos> hey we gotta think about trying to promote this channel more
[07:56] <kbmonkey> I been very bad with it lately ha ha
[07:56] <Kilos> or make the existing adds or so more obvious
[07:57] <Kilos> shopping is a pain
[07:57] <Kilos> there are lotsa peeps using ubuntu that dont know we exist
[07:57] <kbmonkey> its all about numbers. most people wont bother as they on all the other IM and chats like fb or whatnot.
[07:58] <kbmonkey> so they are not curious enough to try something new
[07:58] <Kilos> no man some dont know we have a help channel
[07:58] <kbmonkey> I used 'buntu for maybe 2 years before I joined irc
[07:59] <Kilos> found a ballie on #libreoffice looking for help with a crashing unity
[07:59] <kbmonkey> maybe 1.5 years
[07:59] <kbmonkey> eish
[07:59] <kbmonkey> I get tired hearing somuch of crashing unity. it is very sad :(
[07:59] <Kilos> on our west coast
[08:00] <Kilos> no man they dont all know about update/upgrade and using ppas
[08:00] <Kilos> like he ppaed the latest libreoffice then unity kept hanging
[08:00] <Kilos> and that channel dont answer help much
[08:02] <Kilos> sjoe 13.04 is faster
[08:02] <Kilos> installed on old p4 in 15 mins about
[08:04] <Kilos> slow to reboot though
[08:04] <kbmonkey> remember Gnome is a mature project. It was born in 1997. It was a hasty move to push unity to the main stream so you get these problems now and then.
[08:05] <kbmonkey> wow that is quick Kilos !
[08:05] <Kilos> and no need to turn off desktop effects even with scrapped graphics card
[08:05] <Kilos> this is kde
[08:05] <Kilos> 12.04 took 30 mins to install there
[08:06] <Kilos> just a bit blue the background. too close to win for me
[08:07] <Kilos> when you going to ubuntu kbmonkey ?
[08:07] <kbmonkey> the last one I used was 10.10 (I think)
[08:08] <kbmonkey> or 11.04
[08:08] <Kilos> oh if you know of irc social channels in za tell sally
[08:08] <kbmonkey> I am not sure I am going back to Ubuntu Kilos - Once Unity came in I decided to adventure into new territory
[08:08] <Kilos> this 13.04 kde looks good
[08:09] <kbmonkey> that kde plasma
[08:09] <Kilos> i also have a prob with unity later than 12.04 but the kde has got better imo
[08:09] <Kilos> yeah
[08:09] <Kilos> will do update/upgrade if i can stay awake tonight
[08:10] <Kilos> kde has got more tools for your kinda clever peeps i think
[08:10] <kbmonkey> I tell my pc to turn off in x hours at night. it is useful.
[08:11] <kbmonkey> kde has a lot of 'widgets' and 'applets' and things
[08:11] <kbmonkey> not an applet man myself.
[08:11] <kbmonkey> I like the simple things in life ;)
[08:13] <kbmonkey> irc social channels? can you explain a bit more please?
[08:16] <Kilos> i dunno i suppose she meant where peeps get together and just chat
[08:16] <Kilos> we must try get her to use ubuntu
[08:17] <kbmonkey> chat here :D
[08:17] <Kilos> hehe
[08:17] <kbmonkey> there are 100's of channels here for various projects. freenode is for project discussion.
[08:17] <Kilos> this new kde is really good
[08:18] <kbmonkey> other irc servers exist - enter at your own risk
[08:18] <Kilos> im sorry now i didnt use that data to upgrade my 12.04 kde
[08:18] <Kilos> she seems to know irc because i see she is masked
[08:19] <Kilos> oh not anymore
[08:19] <Kilos> maybe im mistook
[08:20] <Kilos> hey kbmonkey you must study man
[08:20] <Kilos> there linux engineer jobs going there in durbs
[08:21] <kbmonkey> like the first time I see a linux job position in years
[08:23] <kbmonkey> this job thing is really a waste of one's life
[08:24] <kbmonkey> at least the current job is
[08:25] <Kilos> ya but difficult to start on your own until everyone knows about you
[08:37] <kbmonkey> what if you have a condition where you dont want everyone to know about you Kilos ?
[08:37] <kbmonkey> then is it impossibly difficult?
[08:38] <Kilos> yeah but thats where the work comes from
[08:38] <Kilos> hard to start off on your own
[08:38] <Kilos> no income for a long time
[09:04] <Kilos> hi Xethron
[12:19] <charl_> hi Kilos
[12:19] <charl_> and everyone else
[12:19] <charl_> Maaz: coffee on
[12:19]  * Maaz flips the salt-timer
[12:23] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl_!
[12:25] <charl_> Maaz: thanks
[12:26] <Maaz> charl_: Okay :-)
[12:26] <Kilos> hi charl the new kubuntu is lekker hey
[12:29] <charl_> exactly, it's really smooth and fast !
[12:39] <Kilos> yeah installed in 15 mins on my slower pc
[12:48] <Kilos> now i want it here but will need to wait for 11pm to do update/upgrade
[12:50] <charl_> i am pretty happy right here with i3 on my laptop because i like to use keyboard navigation (using the touchpad sucks)
[12:51] <charl_> at work i'm using gnome3 on debian7 atm which is also good enough
[12:51] <charl_> but i still think kde4 is all-round the best desktop there is at the moment
[12:52] <Kilos> i will see after an upgrade so i can see how everything works
[12:55] <magespawn> Howdy all
[12:56] <Kilos> hi magespawn howsit
[12:56] <magespawn> Good and you?
[12:57] <Kilos> good ty, 13.04 kde is great
[12:57] <Kilos> will geive more feedback tomorrow
[12:57] <Kilos> very fast
[12:59] <magespawn> Cool beans, i saw the request for hard drives, i only have very old ones
[13:00] <Kilos> i have everything from 40g's that need parts
[13:00] <Kilos> but just keep eyes open everywhere. dont let others throw away drives please
[13:07] <magespawn> Will do, allm
[13:07] <Kilos> and seagate 500g seem to have had a bad spell . have 2 here
[13:07] <magespawn> All the old ones are really small
[13:07] <Kilos> one with card messed up and other with reader bust
[13:07] <Kilos> ah ok np
[13:07] <Kilos> ill keep hoping
[13:08] <Kilos> hows things there lad
[13:08] <magespawn> Hah, bonamanzi.co.za just got cracked
[13:08] <Kilos> oh my
[13:08] <Kilos> no security
[13:09] <Kilos> mind you launchpad also got cracked a while back
[13:09] <magespawn> Not sure but will have to sort it out, it did have joomla asma cms
[13:10] <Kilos> thats to help you to get them to go all linux
[13:10] <magespawn> S/asma/ as a
[13:10] <Kilos> im sure there are linux crackers out there as well though
[13:11] <Kilos> cant all be good peeps that get IT training
[13:11] <magespawn> Just not as many, i think is was just a bored kid or something like that
[13:13] <magespawn> S/is/it
[13:13] <Kilos> ya acting clever
[13:13] <Kilos> is it sposed to be capital S/
[13:13] <Kilos> i always use small one
[13:14] <Kilos> hate using caps
[13:16] <magespawn> No small is right, this program i am using makes the first one a capital automatically
[13:16] <Kilos> eish
[13:16] <Kilos> like cell fones
[13:18] <magespawn> I am taking the kids down to the river , chat later
[13:19] <Kilos> cool
[15:26] <Kilos> too much stress here. need to replace my 12.04 kde with 13.10
[15:27] <Kilos> bbl
[16:04] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[16:04]  * Maaz starts grinding coffee
[16:08] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[16:08] <Kilos> Maaz, thanks man
[16:08] <Maaz> Kilos It gives me great pleasure to serve a bunch of geeks :-)
[16:09] <Kilos> no bunch
[16:38] <Kilos> haha got a 80g samsung that only shows as 38g with disk utility
[17:01] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn wb
[17:01] <Kilos> you having a good break
[17:01] <Kilos> ?
[17:02] <nlsthzn> alo, thanks
[17:02] <nlsthzn> always :)
[17:02] <Kilos> haha
[17:15] <Kilos> wbb
[17:45] <magespawn> evening all
[17:47] <kbmonkey> hello magespawn
[17:48] <kbmonkey> how goes it? can you also hear fireworks this entire weekend?
[17:48] <magespawn> hey kbmonkey
[17:48] <magespawn> not here in hluhluwe, not many Hindu people here
[17:50] <magespawn> i have a general sort of question: if i have root accessto your bare metal server how do you get me off?
[17:51] <kbmonkey> oh yes, I though it was for guy falkes or some other.
[17:51] <magespawn> Diwali I think
[17:52] <kbmonkey> if you have root's password to my server, I can block your IP from ssh'ing in - best protection is to change the password though
[17:52] <magespawn> okay assume that if i had root access i will have locked you out
[17:52] <kbmonkey> if it is via ssh you should not use passwords anyway - use gpg keys for authentication and disable remote password logins
[17:53] <kbmonkey> oh, I see..
[17:53] <kbmonkey> If you locked me out? that is pretty serious - reboot the server in recovery mode and reset root password from there (single user mode)
[17:54] <kbmonkey> you need physical access to do that
[17:54] <magespawn> which yuo could only really do if you had physical access to the machine?
[17:54] <kbmonkey> recovery mode boots to a root console, thenyou can "passwd root"
[17:55] <magespawn> right just wanted some conformation of what i suspected, lots of politics at work
[17:55] <kbmonkey> correct. without physical access and no way to log in, you cannot recover the root account.
[17:55] <kbmonkey> hmm, it sounds harsh.
[17:58] <magespawn> right back just had to change connection
[17:58] <kbmonkey> roger
[18:03] <kbmonkey> so magespawn are you the one locked out, or was it a question to see if somebody else could get back in?
[18:03]  * kbmonkey puts the monocale on
[18:06] <magespawn> no i am not the one locked out
[18:07] <magespawn> the works joomla website was cracked today, and the 'other' it person claims it was done by a script on the server with root access
[18:08] <kbmonkey> man, that is some claim, and how did it get on there in the first place.
[18:08] <magespawn> quote 'this is a script that some one have run in the server with root access that affects every one on that server
[18:08] <magespawn> '
[18:09] <magespawn> exactly you would need some sort of access alrready that you could somehow elevate to root
[18:12] <kbmonkey> indeed.
[18:13] <magespawn> it was a joomla cms, on apache, presumable on some sort of linux os
[18:15] <magespawn> I think they host themselves, though how and where I have no idea
[18:16] <magespawn> I feel a little like a mushroom sometimes, lol
[18:18] <kbmonkey> A goomba mushroom?
[18:18] <kbmonkey> those guys in Mario Bros
[18:19] <magespawn> if they are kept in the dark and fed on manure
[18:23] <kbmonkey> they love that though, so it may not be your calling if that is the case :p
[18:52] <magespawn> how do you do your job if that is the case then?
[18:56] <magespawn> brb
[18:56] <magespawn> exit
[19:01] <Kilos> guten abend mein herren
[19:01] <Kilos> abent
[19:02] <Kilos> daai ding
[19:02] <Kilos> herren is more than one her hey?
[19:04] <Kilos> hey kbmonkey
[19:05] <Kilos> you okes all in suspended animation
[19:05] <kbmonkey> hi Kilos - magespawn was just in. said brb
[19:05] <Kilos> such weird things happen here
[19:06] <Kilos> 13.04 kde installed like a bomb on old single core pc but here it sukkels and hangs
[19:06] <kbmonkey> good night Kilos I am off
[19:06] <Kilos> almost like the old one bust the boot stick
[19:06] <Kilos> night kbmonkey sleep tight
[19:07] <kbmonkey> feeling hot and dizzy
[19:07] <Kilos> oh no
[19:07] <kbmonkey> going to step away from the screen
[19:07] <Kilos> good
[19:07] <Kilos> rest well work tomorrow
[19:07] <kbmonkey> yup. gonna make more tea.
[19:07] <Kilos> hope you get better
[19:07] <kbmonkey> hope magespawn comes back.
[19:08] <Kilos> whew you worry me
[19:08] <Kilos> not enough pronutro
[19:26] <superfly> kbmonkey: I don't use the "widgets and applets and things" in KDE
[19:26] <Kilos> lol hes just looking for excuses not to use ubuntu superfly good evening
[19:27] <Kilos> all good there with you and family?
[19:33] <Kilos> wb magespawn
[19:33] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[19:33] <magespawn> did not see you lurking there
[19:33] <Kilos> hehe i was away earlier
[19:33] <magespawn> ah right
[19:33] <Kilos> monkey sick
[19:34] <Kilos> hot and dizzy
[19:34] <magespawn> ahh, nice to have a bit of a chat though
[19:34] <magespawn> needs a doctor then
[19:34] <Kilos> he opened the window and influenza
[19:34] <Kilos> he isnt a well guy
[19:35] <Kilos> shame
[19:35] <Kilos> you ready for another week of it
[19:36] <magespawn> indeed, altough i was at work briefly today
[19:36] <Kilos> ah with the hacking prob
[19:37] <magespawn> no strangely enough not, those computers are nowhere near the property, this was a failed network cable
[19:37] <Kilos> ai!
[19:37] <Kilos> how do cables fail
[19:37] <Kilos> what do they make then out of
[19:38] <magespawn> this was an ethernet cable, might be at one or other of the ends, or from electricity or such
[19:38] <magespawn> copper and plastic
[19:39] <Kilos> ai!
[19:39] <magespawn> it can happen
[19:39] <Kilos> without movement?
[19:40] <magespawn> yup but there are also some seriously funny ways of putting in cable
[19:41] <Kilos> ai!. ok then lad have a good evening
[19:41] <Kilos> last night was too late for me
[19:41] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:41] <magespawn> all sorts of way for a cable to fail
[19:41] <Kilos> see ya morrow
[19:41] <magespawn> good night Kilos
[19:42] <Kilos> ya man but not normally if the dont move or get rust and stuff
[19:42] <Kilos> um
[19:42] <Kilos> tarnish oxidization etc
[19:42] <Kilos> sleep tight


[07:15] <mvo> hey cjwatson, hope you are the right person to ask. can we get "powerpc" enabled on https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/edge/+packages please?
[07:21] <wgrant> mvo: Done.
[07:59] <mvo> wgrant: \o/ thank you!
[08:25] <wgrant> mvo: np
[23:06] <nacc> cjwatson: is this a bug in launchpad? https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/pcre3/1:8.35-3.2 and https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/pcre3/2:8.35-3.2 show different SHA256 for the same-named file and point to the same DSC file
[23:22] <wgrant> nacc: Hmm, that's arguably a bug in dak. Epochs aren't included in filenames, so you're not meant to reuse a version that differs from another only by epoch. LP enforces this invariant on its own archives, but apparently Debian doesn't.
[23:22] <wgrant> It's arguably a bug in LP that one of the links is wrong, but it's not clear how to fix it.
[23:28] <nacc> wgrant: ack, and historical, so maybe tooling is better now
[23:28] <nacc> but means i can't really import it
[23:29] <nacc> not sure how to resolve that yet
[23:29] <nacc> i've seen a few debian pacakges do this (epoch bump without version bump)
[23:29] <nacc> let me see if i can override it in our importer easily
[23:30] <tsimonq2> nacc: Just curious, why isn't the version bumped when the epoch is bumped?
[23:31] <wgrant> nacc: I can retrieve the URL to the original file from the DB manually, which would help this case, but there's no way to get that automatically.
[23:31] <sarnold> tsimonq2: the version might have been reset to 0 or something and independently eventually gotten to the same version number
[23:32] <nacc> tsimonq2: in this case, the uploaded 8.36-1 and want to go backwards
[23:33] <nacc> so i guess they bumped epoch and went down a version
[23:33] <nacc> but that version had already been published in the pervious epoch
[23:33] <nacc> *previous
[23:33] <nacc> sarnold's point is valid in general, though


  Let me grab the bug.  I'm pretty sure it'll be covered by our existing stuff.
[08:45]  * apw bounces
[08:45] <RAOF> I can still get a nouveau noaccel quirk into the kernel, can't I?
[08:46] <RAOF> The final kernel upload is tomorrow morning?
[08:50] <RAOF> apw: Yeah, there it is.  GM45.  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/555503
[08:50] <ubot3> Malone bug 555503 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "screen flickers at least once every few minutes" [Medium,Confirmed]
[08:50] <apw> RAOF, and that is already covered ... ?  why didn't the user have it
[08:52] <RAOF> They were on the -19 kernel.  Have we pushed the powersave quirk to the -20 kernel?
[08:56]  * apw actually has lost track after the kitten killer yesterday
[08:56]  * apw checks
[08:56] <RAOF> I can't see anything in the changelog.
[08:57] <apw> RAOF, no the change was to disable FBC for those sets not powersave
[08:58] <RAOF> Ah, right.
[08:58] <RAOF> bug #538648 is what I'm thinking of.
[08:58] <ubot3> Malone bug 538648 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[gm45] Irregular sync flashes with compiz on (Lenovo T500)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538648
[09:01] <apw> the bug there does not have the upstream infor on powersave in it does it?
[09:02] <apw> hrm thats oddd, its longer now, much longer ... launchpad what are you up to?
[09:03] <apw> RAOF, so in short if they need powersave = 0 we arn't expecting to need to fix them
[09:04] <RAOF> Because the symptoms are insufficiently bad?
[09:04] <apw> RAOF, no simply because we are unaware the issues still exist and have no bugs open on linux (that i am aware of) to change it, and no patch out there for testing
[09:05] <RAOF> Ok.
[09:05] <apw> final freeze kernels close today ... so i don't know if we can get it in before release
[09:05] <apw> as its not stopping them booting it can easily be an SRU after release of course
[09:05] <RAOF> Yeah.
[09:06] <apw> and indeed has a simple work around, which we could releasenote
[09:20] <RAOF> apw: Will the nouveau acceleration disabling patch make it into lucid?  Are you waiting for anything from me for that?  Splitting it into the components looks like an excelent idea.
[09:20] <RAOF> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-April/009884.html and its follow ups.
[09:21] <apw> RAOF, i already split it up and pushed it back for review.  i hope it has all the required ack and
[09:21] <apw> am intending on merging it today ... for the final kernel
[09:21] <apw> its all a bit behind due to yesterdays thinkpad debackle
[09:21] <RAOF> Yeah, that was mad.
[09:22] <apw> we tend to get at least one a cycle ... its hard to avoid
[09:22] <apw> i am very glad it was this week and not next
[09:22] <RAOF> OOoooh, yes.
[09:23] <apw> and in part was why i pushed half the update last friday instead ..
[09:23] <RAOF> Can I add an extra quirk - bug #542950 would like GeForce 6100 cards (pciid 0242) quirked.
[09:23] <ubot3> Malone bug 542950 in linux "[Needs noaccel quirk] Screen corruption on startup" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542950
[09:30] <apw> RAOF, do we have a patch for that?
[09:30] <RAOF> We don't; I can generate one easily though.
[09:31] <apw> can you test the final patch ?
[09:31] <RAOF> I cannot.  However, setting nouveau.noaccel=0 has been reported to work by multiple people.
[09:32] <apw> thats tricky ... after yesterday i am nuvous of breaking people ... get the patch out ... and we can look it over.  i am sure it'll be 'ovvious'
[09:32] <apw> if you get it out i presume on top of the other one (that was nouveau right)
[09:32] <apw> then i can make a kernel and ask for testing ... and we can make a decision later today
[09:34] <RAOF> It'll be an extra patch on top of your existing 3 in the series.  Is there an easy way to apply them on ubuntu-lucid?
[09:42] <apw> save them into a mailbox and git am the mailbox
[10:47]  * apw wonders if akgraner tested that kernel
[10:48] <apw> i'd like to get that patch into the kernel and some testing feedback would help
[10:55] <zimbatm> hi there
[11:11] <apw> hi
[11:15] <jjohansen> apw: is it to late for include a driver in the initrd
[11:15] <jjohansen> Bug #530361
[11:15] <ubot3> Malone bug 530361 in linux "Support for DELL H200/H700/H800 SAS cards is missing in the CD/DVD installer for Lucid (mpt2sas)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530361
[11:17] <apw> jjohansen, you know just how late it is in the cycle!
[11:17] <apw> as its a CD driver for a dell server we might be able to do something
[11:17] <apw> as they are likely just hosed without it
[11:17] <apw> however, that is predicated on it being a simple fix
[11:17] <apw> if its 'whole replacement driver' its not going to make the release images imo
[11:18] <jjohansen> apw: yes, and I expect no but I just got the Q in my inbox and figured I'd ask
[11:18] <apw> looking at the bug i don't see anything other than 'its broken' so its hard to evaluate whether there is a possibility or not
[11:19] <apw> finally it may just be that the driver is not in the udebs
[11:19] <apw> jjohansen, do we have someone who has one who can answer some of these questions?
[11:19] <jjohansen> from the bug that we actually ship the driver its just not in the initrd
[11:20] <jjohansen> not that I know of but I'll poke and see
[11:22] <apw> it does appear that we have the driver building
[11:22] <apw> debian.master/config/config.common.ubuntu:CONFIG_SCSI_MPT2SAS=m
[11:22] <apw> obj-$(CONFIG_SCSI_MPT2SAS) += mpt2sas.o
[11:23] <apw> it appears to be called mpt2sas
[11:23] <apw> and we don't appear to put it in the installer stuff
[11:23] <jjohansen> yep, there are reports of using it to "fix" the problem, its just not in the initrd
[11:23] <jjohansen> right, or the installer
[11:23] <apw> so if that the only issue then it is fixable i'd say ... but why the hell can't people ask last week not this
[11:24] <apw> jjohansen, so who asked
[11:25] <jjohansen> ttx
[11:25] <apw> ttx should know better
[11:25] <apw> i even sent out an email last week saying the deadline was here
[11:26] <jjohansen> right, but everyone else is focused on a thursday deadline, so that gets forgotten
[11:28] <apw> the thurday deadline doesn't mean thursday for _anyone_ really
[11:28]  * apw needs more brown brain fuel
[13:16] <mirsal> Hello there
[13:21] <apw> hello
[13:30] <mirsal> It's probably not the right place to ask for help but I'm trying to build NetworkManager from the upstream source tree and I'm having trouble with the wireless-tools
[13:30] <mirsal> http://pastebin.com/rmUedvqs
[13:36] <apw> mirsal, that normall implies there is a -dev package
[13:36] <apw> you probabally want to ask about that on #nm on this server
[13:37] <mirsal> apw, yeah, usually there is, but I can't find it
[13:37] <mirsal> apw, I just asked there. No reply so far :)
[13:37]  * apw swears ... that updated EC fix works for dells and doesn't break thinkpads ... but still breaks damn macs
[13:38] <mirsal> (your last two words summarize an awful lot of issues)
[13:39] <JFo> apw, very odd
[13:39] <mirsal> apw, ah ! found it, thanks
[13:39] <mirsal> libiw-dev - Wireless tools - development files
[13:40] <mirsal> go figure ;x
[13:40] <apw> mirsal, 'so' obvious
[13:46] <mirsal> hmm, why I did not think about apt-get build-dep is another story...
[13:53] <abogani> smb: Hi Stefan! I'm wondering if you could sponsor me (for PPU right on linux-rt package https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlessioIgorBogani/linux-rtPPUApplication) adding your comments about Feisty-Gutsy-Hardy period...
[13:55] <smb> abogani, I guess I can, but you better mail me a reminder to look at it. I am currently at the airport and I'd rather do it with a bit more time later
[13:55] <abogani> smb: Of course, thanks!
[15:34] <achiang> hm, is there a way to get dev_dbg() statements in usb to display on console?
[15:35] <achiang> maybe just pass 'debug' on the kernel command line?
[15:36] <apw> achiang, do they not appear in dmesg output?
[15:37] <apw> if they are in there you probabally can get them on the console direct via loglevel, if i've understood
[15:37] <achiang> apw: haven't confirmed, i'm just doing some drive-by triaging on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux/+bug/433438
[15:37] <ubot3> Malone bug 433438 in linux "device descriptor read/64, error -110" [Medium,Confirmed]
[15:38] <achiang> apw: in my 5 minutes of reading, that message is due to an urb timeout of some sort
[15:38] <achiang> so i was just going to suggest something that the bug reporters could do to get some more info before someone who's really on the kernel team can take a look
[15:39] <apw> soz can't be more authorative on that
[15:41] <achiang> "soz" ?
[15:54] <apw> short for sorry
[15:54] <achiang> heh, thanks
[16:48] <kaouthia> Hello all. Amitk suggested it would be a good idea to say hello to you all and introduce myself. My name is Lee Jones. I have recently accepted a role within Canonical as an Arm Kernel Engineer, with a view to start at the beginning of May.
[16:53] <ogra> kaouthia, awesome ! i see you are also in #ubuntu-arm already :)
[16:54] <kaouthia> Yes, and ubuntu-meeting (a bit too keen me thinks) ;)
[16:58] <kaouthia> I would like to pick your brains if I may. I have to purchase a laptop and I’m finding it difficult to choose.  I would like something which compiles Kernels quickly and is going to last. Do any of you have any suggestions you’d like to make? I hear a lot of you like ThinkPads - anything in particular?
[16:59]  * ogra doesnt lkie thinkpads ... i tend to buy whitebox systems to be able to replace parts if they get outdated ... but then i'm not a kernel guy i just happen to hang around here to annoy apw for ARM stuff :)
[16:59] <ogra> *like
[17:00] <achiang> kaouthia: building kernels quickly requires lots of cores and fast I/O, so something with Core i7 and an SSD would be good
[17:02] <apw> generally i don't build on my laptop, the disk is just too slow
[17:02] <achiang> your best bet is probably getting a fast desktop and a cheap laptop for travel, actually
[17:02] <apw> yeah i have a "desktop replacement" latop i use as my 'home machine' a 10" laptop for travel, and use remote machines for build generally
[17:03] <abogani> apw: distcc?
[17:03] <achiang> fast local CPUs + fast I/O + ccache generally outperforms distcc, at least in my experience
[17:04] <apw> abogani, nothing so sophisticated, just porters really
[17:04] <abogani> apw: right
[17:05] <abogani> achiang: Obviously ccache and distcc have different goals so I don't think that you can compare these.
[17:05] <apw> i am more of a ccache user myself
[17:06] <apw> not that i see a whole heap of difference to be fran
[17:06] <apw> frank
[17:09] <kaouthia> I already have a Sony laptop, which I really like, but I can't put Linux on it. It is the only Windows based machine in the house now. If I put Linux on it, the girlfriend will BSOD.
[17:10] <apw> kaouthia, heh this is the time of equal rights, she can buy her own windows laptop
[17:12] <kaouthia> That could be a cheap alt - I'll buy her a cheap laptop to surf the web and I'll have the Sony back - great suggestion!
[17:13] <apw> kaouthia, now you are thinking
[17:13] <apw> if you have a desktop and the sony u are likely sorted
[17:13] <apw> though i suspect none of your buttons will work ... you can fix that :)
[17:19] <kaouthia> Buttons?
[17:19] <apw> brightness up/down volume up/down eject, that sort of button
[17:19] <apw> hotkeys is prolly a better description
[17:19] <kaouthia> Couldn't possibly, it doesn't have an Arm Core ;)
[17:21] <ogra> nothing a hammer and soldering iron couldnt fix :)
[17:22] <kaouthia> What would you want to solder a hammer to? ;)
[17:22] <ogra> the old CPU to get it ripped out more easily :)
[17:23] <mjg59> Hotkeys ought to work by default on all Sonys now
[17:24] <apw> mjg59, heh that'd be nice
[17:24] <kaouthia> Nothing a few extra volts and a cup of liquid nitrogen wouldn't fix
[17:25] <mjg59> Support for the new-style systems went in a year ago
[17:28] <apw> mjg59, yeah i admit i've not heard any whining about them for a while :)
[17:29] <mjg59> apw: The fun bit was writing it without any of the actual hardware
[17:29] <apw> qudos for that for sure
[18:39] <lamont> I used to be able to see my SD card (karmic, inspiron 1520).  Now it's not there...  wtf?
[18:40] <jjohansen> lamont: what kernel
[18:41] <lamont> 2.6.32-17-generic
[18:41] <lamont> though I guess I could reboot into -19
[18:42] <jjohansen> lamont: -20 is the current kernel
[18:43] <lamont> meh
[19:21] <smoser> jjohansen, or anyone, can i disable the function-f2 (disable wireless) button easily ?
[19:21] <jjohansen> smoser: depends
[19:22] <jjohansen> smoser: on some machines its a key press the kernel sees and triggers events, on others the kernel doesn't even see it
[19:22] <smoser> well this one sees it
[19:23] <smoser> it probably gets routed to gnome-power-manager, right ?
[19:24] <jjohansen> smoser: well does it see the keypress or just propagate an event after the fact
[19:24] <smoser> the event goes through and my wirelss drops
[19:26] <jjohansen> smoser: right, but there are a couple ways it can go through, and that will determine whether the kernel see it early enough to stop it
[19:28] <jjohansen> smoser: basic key debugging is start with xev, see it shows up there, then move to show keys and then acpi_listen
[19:28] <jjohansen> but it also could be handled by the ec
[19:30] <smoser> ok. i'll poke at it sometime
[19:30] <smoser> but thanks. i was hoping something easy. i keep accidently hitting it
[19:38] <anoteng> Anybody wanna take a look at Bug #183461, it's not fully triaged yet, but I think it should have importance high as it makes a default installation unusable for some users. This is a very old bug, and I think it could use a pair of kernel-eyes by now.
[19:38] <ubot3> Malone bug 183461 in opensuse "ksoftirqd/1 using 50% CPU or above" [Unknown,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183461
[19:40] <mjg59> anoteng: I think that's several dozen different bugs
[19:42] <anoteng> I was thinking the same to, should I make the reporters file separate bugs?
[19:46] <JFo> anoteng, there are several thousand old bugs that need a look. it is just not currently possible to look at them all
[19:46] <JFo> but yes, the reporter needs to file separate bugs
[19:46] <JFo> as much as it pains me to say it :)
[19:47] <JFo> I will put this one on my list for review
[19:53] <anoteng> thanks. I asked everybody to file their own bugs with apport-bug -p linux.


[12:26] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: you here?
[12:26] <Hobbsee> what's elkbuntu's email address?
[12:28] <atoponce> melissa AT meldraweb DOT com, per NickServ
[12:28] <mc44> elkbuntu@ubuntu would work too Im sure :)
[12:28] <Hobbsee> oh, found it
[12:28] <Hobbsee> quite possibly, yeah
[12:36] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: please check your email - particularly, the email from dionne
[12:36] <Hobbsee> (my forward to you)
[12:36] <Hobbsee> seeing as we want to get that booked ASAP
[04:18] <elkbuntu> oh bugger.. missed her
[06:36] <Mez> Can I ban him for that ?
[06:37] <tonyyarusso> I'm thinking - probably
[06:38] <Mez> for threating to btflood :D
[06:38] <tonyyarusso> done
[06:38] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[06:38] <Amaranth> some people...
[06:40] <Fujitsu> Who's this?
[06:40] <Mez> WinXpPro> Biggie Mistake
 Your channel will now Halt as i bring 2000+ bots to it
 ad then u will know what a Flood is!
[06:40] <Mez> nalioth, ping
[06:41] <Mez> or SportChick seeing as you're not /away
[06:41] <SportChick> hi Mez
[06:41] <Mez> SportChick, what's freenode policy on the above (threatening a botbet attack)
[06:42] <SportChick> hrm
[06:42] <SportChick> Mez: where is that from?
[06:42] <tonyyarusso> SportChick: #ubuntu
[06:42] <Mez> that was in PM (he also threated the same thing in #ubuntu before tonyyarusso kicked him
[06:42] <SportChick> so far I see nothing
[06:43] <Mez> me either, but cheers
[06:45] <Madpilot> 2000 bot / actual IQ of threatening party = zero bots, I suspect
[06:46] <Mez> Madpilot, sorry, error, division by zero
[06:46] <Madpilot> exactly
[06:47] <Mez> Damned trolls
[07:20] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Wow, sounds like fun. o.O
[07:20] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Anyone feel like trading for a quiet channel?
[07:34] <ubotu> In #kubuntu, eduard said: ubotu - ho far is till the mars?
[11:01] <nalioth> the massive life-changing bot swarm never materialized?
[11:02] <Hobbsee> hrm?
[11:09] <nalioth> someone was threatening to bring 2000+ bots in to #ubuntu earlier
[11:09] <Hobbsee> oh fun
[01:31] <tsmithe> Seveas, ping
[01:32] <tsmithe> Seveas, will Ubugtu ever be coming back to #ubuntuforums ?
[01:34] <nalioth> oh no, Ubugtu has flown the coop
[02:13] <gnomefreak> nalioth: a guy i know from #motu sent email for 20+ channel (one of the staffers told him to do that) is that the right process?
[02:15] <nalioth> gnomefreak: i don't understand
[02:28] <Hobbsee> nalioth: to get rid of hte 20 channel limit
[02:28] <nalioth> Hobbsee: gnomefreak wrote ambiguously (does he want 20 #ubuntu channels?)
[02:29] <gnomefreak> its early for me today sorry :(
[02:29] <Hobbsee> nalioth: i realise that, yeah.  he wants his 20 channel limit remove
[02:29] <Hobbsee> d
[02:30] <nalioth> Hobbsee: i got that now, but gnomefreaks original sentence puzzled me
[02:30] <Hobbsee> ahh
[02:31] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: I usually have that effect
[02:31] <Tm_T> just by my appearance (:
[02:31] <gnomefreak> :)
[02:33] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: isnt beryl in universe? didnt know main devels needed to push it
[02:34] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: they need to push stuff thru binary NEW
[02:34] <Hobbsee> it is.
[02:34] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[02:36] <Seveas> beryl-in-main
[02:36] <Seveas> and the world collapses
[02:37] <effie_jayx> Seveas,  is it fixed now?
[02:37] <Hobbsee> Seveas: world is laready collapsing - beryl and compiz are merging.
[02:37] <Seveas> effie_jayx, what?
[02:37] <Seveas> Hobbsee, I KNOW!
[02:37] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:37] <Seveas> that scared the bejeezus out of me
[02:37] <effie_jayx> Seveas,  beryl... the package seem to be broken
[02:38] <Seveas> nocoment
[02:38] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: we know.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> effie_jayx: someone uploaded the wrong version or something.  enough said.
[02:39] <effie_jayx> thanks guys ... I just wanted to know if it worked now :D
[02:39] <Hobbsee> new packages are waiting in binary NEW
[02:40] <gnomefreak> merging is bad imho
[02:40] <Seveas> Hobbsee, prod $random_archive_admin ;)
[02:40] <Hobbsee> Seveas: done.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:40] <Seveas> Hobbsee, prod $random_archive_admin again
[02:40] <Seveas> :p
[02:40] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Isn't it more than beryl-plugins hasn't been NEWed at all yet?
[02:41] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's got sources in the archive..
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Binary NEWed, then.
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Not an incorrect version.
[02:41] <Hobbsee> oh, yeah
[02:41] <Hobbsee> aquamarine was the wrong version
[02:41] <Hobbsee> didnt build.
[02:41] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[03:14] <nalioth> we're having a bot problem, if y'all havent noticed
[03:16] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Are there 2000 of them?
[03:16] <nalioth> if you're not being bothered, that's good
[03:19] <elkbuntu> ooh, the turks again
[03:19] <LjL> yeah the turks
[03:19] <LjL> i've been bothered by two of them in PM
[03:19] <LjL> but they weren't in #ubuntu (or had just left, didn't check, i banned anyway)
[03:20] <elkbuntu> i'm yet to get one
[03:20] <ompaul> LjL, let us know when you do pm
[03:20] <LjL> ompaul: hm? you mean when i *get* pm?
[03:21] <LjL> anyway i got only those two right on join, then nothing more
[03:21] <LjL> or you mean when i ban based on PM?
[03:21] <ompaul> stop, I will explain :)
[03:22] <nalioth> LjL: we want to know then the buggers /msg you
[03:22] <ompaul> when you get a pm, please announce the name
[03:22] <LjL> okays
[03:22] <ompaul> if you want to do it with a !sta f f here and then say bots name
[03:22] <LjL> <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> were the ones i got, but i suppose they'd be long done
[03:22] <ompaul> it would be useful
[03:22] <ompaul> they will be done
[03:23] <ompaul> already but - the eariler we get them the better
[03:23] <LjL> i'll join some clones
[03:23] <nalioth> LjL: not necessary
[03:24] <LjL> nalioth: it's not necessary, it just catches more of them
[03:24] <effie_jayx> hehe
[03:25] <effie_jayx> ;)
[05:06] <LjL> GodTodd: please fix your quit message
[05:06] <LjL> it's kind of... inappropriate
[05:08] <GodTodd> sorry
[05:08] <GodTodd> fixed
[05:09] <LjL> unbanned
[05:09] <LjL> make sure it stays fixed :)
[05:25] <ubotu> Announcement from my owner (Seveas): ubotu will be offline for maintenance
[05:30] <kbrooks> hello
[05:30] <kbrooks> Anyone here? ping.
[05:31] <kbrooks> anyone there? okay...
[05:31] <kbrooks> i think that ubuntu_noob is spamming something in #ubuntu
[05:32] <kbrooks> erm, never mind
[05:32] <kbrooks> sorry all
[05:32] <kbrooks> bye
[05:45] <elkbuntu> so... iirc... we have ubot3 because ubotu is struggling with load... now ubugtu's load is going to join it? hoo boy
[05:47] <apokryphos> there will be two bots; they'll be duplicated
[05:47] <elkbuntu> aha cool
[05:48] <elkbuntu> but saves managing 3 or 4.. i getcha
[06:03] <GodTodd> not sour grapes, but merely a question...how is a nick of "HornyHouseWife" family friendly?
[06:04] <Tm_T> it's not IMO
[06:04] <atoponce> it should be encouraged to be changed
[06:05] <Tm_T> GodTodd: and is "godtodd" not any provocative then?
[06:05] <Tm_T> ;)
[06:06] <GodTodd> i was merely trying to discern where the line was
[06:06] <Tm_T> I know, I was joking
[06:06] <LjL> it's a difficult line to draw indeed
[06:06] <GodTodd> i agree
[06:06] <atoponce> i think HornyHouseWife is past that line
[06:07] <Tm_T> agreed
[06:17] <Seveas> godtodd is nowhere near that line...
[06:45] <apokryphos> RIP Ubugtu
[06:47] <PriceChild> permanent? :O
[06:48] <Seveas> yes
[06:48] <Seveas> merged with ubotu
[06:48] <mc44> as long as @t is safe :)
[06:48] <Seveas> @t
[06:48] <ubotu> Immortaliy can be achieved by wearing Mr. T's necklaces, but he is the only creature strong enough to carry this load
[06:48] <mc44> woo!
[06:48] <Seveas> %t
[06:48] <ubotu> Mr. T is Tony Robinson's motivation.
[06:49] <Seveas> (both @ and % will work for ubotu)
[06:49] <PriceChild> how rare
[06:49] <Seveas> not really :)
[06:49] <PriceChild> Seveas, Is the load lessened with only one bot?
[06:50] <Seveas> yes
[06:50] <Seveas> @quit brb - final steps of maintenance
[06:50] <PriceChild> wooo :)
[06:51] <PriceChild> suppose everything only has to be parsed once this way :)
[07:01] <Seveas> apokryphos, which channels is ubot3 in?
[07:02] <apokryphos> #easyubuntu, #ubuntu-us, +#ubuntuforums-beginners, ##apple, #ubuntu-au, #ubuntu-il, #ubuntu-midwest, #ubuntu-ohio, #ubuntu-ops, #ubuntu-programming, +#ubuntu-ni, #ubuntu-chicago, #ubuntu-ca, #ubuntu-uk, #ubuntu-gr, #ubuntuforums-hardware
[07:03] <apokryphos> have to shoot off for a bit though, see you
[07:53] <darx> i was here with yesterday with a request to get my ban on #ubuntu lifted
[07:54] <darx> is Seveas here atm?
[07:54] <Seveas> no
[07:54] <darx> Seveas: hi there
[07:54] <darx> I got banned coz i foolishly pasted a bunch of code..
[07:55] <darx> it was like a few months ago and i was a noob and still is
[07:55] <darx> so please forgive me and accept my sicere apologies
[07:55] <apokryphos> I really doubt you were banned for only pasting
[07:55] <darx> apolryphos: yes.. what else could a noob do
[07:55] <darx> as far as i know thats all that i think i did
[07:56] <apokryphos> !tab
[07:56] <ubotu> You can use <tab> for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.
[07:56] <apokryphos> darx: they could do a lot of other things.
[07:56] <apokryphos> hm, is the bantracker up again?
[07:56] <darx> apokryphos: i don't follow you..
[07:57] <darx> ?:-(
[07:59] <darx> i was possibly known as rabidphage then
[07:59] <darx> i don't know for sure
[07:59] <PriceChild> darx, give us a few moments please
[08:00] <apokryphos> 2007-02-15T13:19:20 <Rothbuntu> oh lawd ive been tricked
[08:00] <apokryphos> 2007-02-15T13:19:26 <Rothbuntu> VISTA SAVE ME
[08:00] <apokryphos> that and a few other things. You were trolling, not pasting.
[08:00] <apokryphos> Lying to us is not a very nice way to go about things...
[08:00] <darx> apokryphos: are you talking to me?
[08:02] <apokryphos> ah, turns out t hat wasn't you; just another charming user at the same time
[08:04] <apokryphos> darx: the ban will be lifted for now.
[08:04] <apokryphos> it's very possible that the ban on you was a mix up, but we can't be sure.
[08:04] <darx> apokryphos: well there you have it..
[08:05] <apokryphos> darx: you can join #ubuntu directly now. Sorry about the hassle.
[08:05] <darx> i'm pretty sure i won't get banned unless i'm in a religious channel
[08:05] <darx> :)
[08:05] <apokryphos> =)
[08:06] <darx> thank you guys... best of luck with your endeavours..
[08:07] <PriceChild> Hasn't joined #ubuntu yet...
[08:08] <atoponce> keep an eye on his ip. i'm skeptical
[08:09] <PriceChild> He's from Wolverhampton.... who isn't :P
[08:16] <NotAmaranth> darx is the one from last night, i think
[08:17] <NotAmaranth> he really did just paste a bunch of shit into the channel instead of using a pastebin
[08:17] <PriceChild> he wasn't in the bantracker that I could see...
[08:17] <PriceChild> under hostname, nick or alt nick
[08:19] <NotAmaranth> he was yesterday
[08:19] <NotAmaranth> maybe he spelled the alt nick wrong but a similar one was given yesterday and it was just a large paste
[08:19] <Tm_T> heh
[08:19] <NotAmaranth> there was a guy that got autobanned for a CTCP VERSION too
[08:19] <apokryphos> well he couldn't have had the same hostname
[08:20] <atoponce> NotAmaranth: that happened to me in #ubuntu-loco
[08:20] <apokryphos> there was only one hostname ban that would've prevented him from getting in
[08:20] <atoponce> s/$/teams/
[08:20] <NotAmaranth> @rainbow carebearstare
[08:20] <NotAmaranth> aww
[08:22] <Tm_T> elkbuntu: ping
[08:30] <PriceChild> emet has been directed to -read-topic
[08:30] <PriceChild> he worked out he could rename himself _emet* to bypass it
[08:30] <PriceChild> I'm tempted to kick and banforward *emet* to -read-topic so he fixes it properly?
[08:30] <PriceChild> or *!*@*unafilliated/emet of course...
[08:30] <Tm_T> go for it
[08:31] <nalioth> why aren't we banning host masks to #ubuntu-read-topic ?
[08:31] <PriceChild> I don't know :)
[08:32] <PriceChild> nalioth, seen as you're here too, you're ok with me doing this?
[08:33] <PriceChild> Not that I don't trust you Tm_T :)
[08:33] <Tm_T> PriceChild: why not?
[08:33] <nalioth> PriceChild: it's ban evading, after all
[08:33] <Tm_T> PriceChild: you trust those hu-mans instead?!
[08:34] <PriceChild> bah i did a remove instead of kick...
[08:34] <PriceChild> uu no he found it :)
[08:35] <Tm_T> hmm, this emet is in #ubuntu+1 too it seems :)
[08:36] <PriceChild> grrr and he's asking the same question :(
[08:36] <nalioth> Tm_T: we don't worry so much about #ubuntu+1.  it doesnt have almost 1200 people in it
[08:37] <Tm_T> nalioth: I know, just noticed, no other means in my saying
[08:38] <emet> Hello
[08:38] <PriceChild> Hi emet
[08:38] <PriceChild> Ready for a test?
[08:39] <emet> hack me please
[08:39] <emet> yes
[08:39] <PriceChild> Please join #emet
[08:42] <PriceChild> emet, you may now rejoin #ubuntu :)
[08:42] <emet> thank you
[08:53] <LjL> nalioth, we aren't banning hostmask (or at least i'm not, but i think i was the one starting the not-by-hostmask thing) because *in theory* those people shouldn't attempt to evade their bans, since we're just telling them about a router problem
[08:53] <LjL> so banning by nick is more effective than banning by a [possibly dynamic]  IP address
[08:53] <LjL> also, some hostnames are way too long for a +b line to work when you add !#ubuntu-read-topic to it
[08:54] <LjL> not to mention that it's far easier to do it by nickname on my client :P
[08:54] <nalioth> :/
[08:55] <LjL> there's some people who are *still* in read-topic after *weeks* they've been forwarded, which probably mean they care about neither their routers nor #ubuntu
[08:55] <LjL> the bans by nickname are quite effective in those cases
[09:21] <Arwen> um, it's been about five months since Seveas banned me, anyone here considering lightening up?
[09:23] <PriceChild> Try 3 months
[09:23] <Arwen> ...
[09:23] <PriceChild> And you'll have to wait until Sev.eas has time for you.
[09:24] <Arwen> yeah screw that, you know, I was under the impression that Ubuntu meant "humanity to others"
[09:24] <Tm_T> oh my...
[09:24] <PriceChild> oh no :(
[09:25] <nalioth> the pot calling the kettle black
[09:25] <mc44> mmm time for some tea
[09:34] <Seveas> PriceChild, ever seen Arwen/anon32 in action?
[09:35] <PriceChild> Seveas, i saw him on the bantracker :)
[09:35] <Seveas> heh ;)
[09:35] <Seveas> gotta love the bantracker
[09:36] <Seveas> speaking of which, let's test if it works
[09:36] <PriceChild> my ban on emet worked earlier :)
[09:36] <Tm_T> Seveas: he's been pretty ok in #kubuntu lately though
[09:37] <PriceChild> Tm_T, his exit from here says otherwise :P
[09:37] <Seveas> PriceChild, I'm not at all surprised he gets frustrated after you refered him to me
[09:37] <Seveas> he knows he stands 0.000000001% chance
[09:38] <PriceChild> Haha well I don't think anyone else here wants to take this upon themselves :P
[09:39] <Tm_T> PriceChild: yes, well, as said, IN #kubuntu
[09:40] <PriceChild> Hehe what do I know :)
[09:42] <Seveas> no comment :p
[09:42] <PriceChild> haha
[09:43] <LjL> btw this emet was sent to read-topic before, i'm sure
[09:43] <PriceChild> LjL, yes
[09:43] <PriceChild> LjL, same fiasco of evading if you look, hob,bsee banned then me.z rebanned :)
[09:45] <LjL> [Sun Feb 18 2007]  [23:25:31]  Mode      LjL sets mode: +b emet!*@*!#ubuntu-read-topic
[09:45] <LjL> tsk
[09:48] <emet> I use multiple routers
[09:48] <emet> I travel alot :o
[09:49] <LjL> it's ok, but why evade bans instead of just connecting to 8001
[09:49] <emet> I'm still banned if I go to 8001
[09:50] <emet> I have to be tested and alot of times no one is here to do it :o
[09:51] <LjL> emet: in that case, i suppose i can understand. but make sure you actually do *ask* in here, if you just join you'll mostly be ignored (my IRC client, for example, doesn't even *show* there's been a join in a channel unless i'm in that channel's window)
[09:51] <Seveas> LjL, if you just use port 8001 *all the time* you won't be banned
[09:51] <emet> xchat?
[09:51] <Seveas> err, emet*
[09:52] <LjL> Seveas: yeah he said he travels... if it's different computers, i suppose...
[09:52] <LjL> emet: no, konversation
[09:52] <Seveas> LjL, so? :)
[09:52] <Seveas> port 8001 is just as easy as 6667
[09:52] <LjL> Seveas: err, except it's not default, while 6667 generally is, so if you forget :)
[09:53] <LjL> i mean, *i* don't type /server irc.freenode.net 6667, i just type /server irc.freenode.net :P
[11:30] <Amaranth> !-ops
[11:30] <ubotu> ops aliases: op, medic, calltheops, call the ops - added by Seveas on 2006-07-29 12:54:12
[11:30] <Amaranth> !ops
[11:30] <ubotu> Help! Mez, LjL, elkbuntu, imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, ompaul, Madpilot, Burgundavia, Seveas, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso, PriceChild or Amaranth
[11:30] <Amaranth> err
[11:30] <Seveas> Amaranth, ?
[11:30] <PriceChild> hmmm
[11:30] <Amaranth> it's broken in #ubuntuforums
[11:30] <Seveas> !ops-#ubuntuforums
[11:30] <ubotu> Help PriceChild, zenrox, byen, frodon, KiwiNZ, zenwhen, jdong, KingBahamut, nocturn, ubuntugeek, ubuntu_demon, darkmatter_, Brunellus, BuffaloSoldier, panickedthumb, jenda, rav_tux, Vorian, MikeB-, k_mandla or bapoumba!
[11:30] <PriceChild> ops-#ubuntuforums also works in pm
[11:30] <PriceChild> ohhh
[11:30] <PriceChild> qball is ignored!
[11:31] <jenda> huh
[11:31] <Seveas> @admin ignore list
[11:31] <Seveas> @login
[11:31] <Seveas> @admin ignore list
[11:31] <ubotu> 'ubot3!n=ubot3@unaffiliated/nalioth/bot/ubot3', '*!*@ubuntu/bot/*', and 'qball*!*@*'
[11:31] <PriceChild> there we go :)
[11:32] <Seveas> he must have annoyed me a bit I guess
[11:32] <jenda> Seveas: it's ok.
[11:32] <jenda> ;)
[11:33] <jenda> I'd leave it that way for a while, till it sinks in.
[11:36] <tsmithe> i remember when i was ignored
[11:37] <tsmithe> that was very annoying
[11:39] <Seveas> %admin ignore add tsmithe*!*@*
[11:39] <ubotu> OK
[11:39] <tsmithe> oh ghey!
[11:39] <mc44> @pity tsmithe
[11:39] <mc44> see, its ignoring you so much it wont even pity you
[11:40] <tsmithe> haha
[11:41] <PriceChild> lol
[11:51] <jenda> ROFL :)
[12:19] <mc44> theres no bot in #ubuntu :s
[12:19] <PriceChild> mc44, sev.eas is doing something... notice the quit message :)
[12:20] <mc44> ah
[12:20] <mc44> not ubotwo around?
[12:20] <mc44> *no
[12:20] <Seveas> no need to
[12:20] <Seveas> ubotu is on his way back
[12:20] <Seveas> if I expect long downtime, I'd say so
[12:21] <ubotwo> Sorry, I know nothing about that - try http://help.ubuntu.com/community/
[12:21] <Seveas> ubotwo, shaddap :p


[02:29] <daniels> doko: thanks very much
[05:37] <fabbione> morning
[04:53] <jbailey> Split glibc?
[04:53] <jbailey> Actually, the sad part is that I'd love to split Locales out.
[05:16] <doko> jbailey: splitting locales would be nice
[08:45] <lamont> jbailey: Sid's /usr/include/rpc/xdr.h is ftbfs with gcc-4.0 (2.3.2-ds1-22)


[03:51] <karstensrage> hi LocutusOfBorg
[03:53] <karstensrage> are you still doing sponsorship for debian?
[06:46] <LocutusOfBorg> jbicha, mozjs24 is a merge or a sync?
[08:34] <LocutusOfBorg> karstensrage, please debdiff the package with the one in unstable
[08:37] <LocutusOfBorg> missing changes, e.g. new identity4c package, wrong version (dpkg --compare-versions helps), target should be sid, not "stable", the first changelog timestamp has been changed, old std-version, vcs fields non canonical (see mentors link), pre-depends should be dropped now
[11:23] <jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: I'd prefer it if we could RM mozjs24 … here's what's blocking its final rdepends: https://bugs.debian.org/872040
[11:24] <jbicha> and I'd like to drop mozjs38 too but that's blocked on https://github.com/linuxmint/cjs/issues/52
[14:20] <karstensrage> LocutusOfBorg, thanks, will do
[14:53] <karstensrage> LocutusOfBorg, done
[15:05] <LocutusOfBorg> karstensrage, std-version is 4.1.0, dh-autoreconf is useless in compat level 10, changelog doesn't list changes
[15:06] <LocutusOfBorg> bump debian/compat and debhelper to 10
[15:06] <LocutusOfBorg> and drop --with-autoreconf from rules
[15:06] <LocutusOfBorg> and update the changelog file
[15:07] <LocutusOfBorg> debian/changelog.j2 <-- what is that?
[15:07] <karstensrage> is that in there
[15:08] <karstensrage> yikeks
[15:08] <karstensrage> LocutusOfBorg, thats a template file since everyone wants different versions for their builds
[15:08] <karstensrage> it shouldnt be in there...
[15:09] <karstensrage> and does changelog only reflects package changes right?
[15:10] <LocutusOfBorg> upstream in case they fix a debian bug
[15:10] <LocutusOfBorg> and packaging yes
[15:10] <karstensrage> so all these changes you're suggesting reflected in changelog?
[15:11] <karstensrage> hmm have to figure out how to get rid of that .j2
[15:11] <LocutusOfBorg> do a debdiff of the current unstable package
[15:11] <LocutusOfBorg> and check it
[15:21] <TJ-> seems to be a bug in openssh-client-ssh1, it fails if ~/.ssh/config has a stanza with "Protocol 1", same as the regular ssh client.
[16:36] <doko> is sysvinit-utils still supposed to be essential in artful?
[17:40] <coreycb> bdmurray: hello, would you be able to take a look at promoting neutron-lbaas-dashboard to zesty-updates when you get a chance?
[17:48] <beisner> coreycb dosaboy - fyi, promoted neutron to uca mitaka-proposed re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1668410
[17:49] <coreycb> beisner: thanks sir
[17:56] <bdmurray> coreycb: It doesn't seem to be verified
[17:57] <beisner> coreycb dosaboy - fyi, promoted nova from staging to proposed in uca M, N, O for https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1668410
[17:57] <coreycb> bdmurray: urg sorry, too many tags
[18:19] <doko> chrisccoulson: fyi, there is a new cargo in unstable, and a new rustc in experimental
[18:36] <tjaalton> doko: uploaded tomcat8.0 to debian & artful, assuming it'll take too long to process through debian NEW to reach artful..
[18:38] <doko> tjaalton: accepted
[18:38] <tjaalton> :D
[18:38] <cajhne_> Hi.
[18:38] <doko> tjaalton: please keep a bug report open to remove it for 18.04
[18:38] <cajhne_> 17.10 crashes every time I fill up the RAM.
[18:38] <tjaalton> doko: much thanks, I'll push new tomcatjss etc later
[18:38] <tjaalton> doko: yup
[18:38] <cajhne_> Anyone else seeing that?
[18:40] <cajhne_> It's almost as though the new swap (file) is broken in some way.
[18:44] <cajhne_> does anyone know a way to test if it's the swap file that's crashing Ubuntu 17.10?
[18:45] <cajhne_> in the log it says /failed to activate swap file
[18:45] <nacc> cajhne_: then you aren't usinng the sawp file and it probably OOM'd
[18:46] <cajhne_> nacc: thanks. I'm surprised there's no bug report for this.
[18:48] <nacc> cajhne_: what's the bug? swap failed to activate and you used up all your memory
[18:48] <nacc> cajhne_: swap failing to activate isn't itself a bug
[18:48] <cajhne_> nacc: I don't understand... that's expected behaviour? To crash and not swap anything to disk?
[18:48] <nacc> cajhne_: without understanding *why*
[18:49] <cajhne_> all I can think of is that I made the horrible error of choosing "encrypt my home folder"
[18:49] <cajhne_> on install.
[18:50] <nacc> cajhne_: how can it swap when there is no swap?
[18:50] <cajhne_> Other than that, there's nothing at all unusual about my install.
[18:50] <nacc> cajhne_: did you put your swapfile in your /home?
[18:50] <juliank> rbalint: If you wondered why I did not upload the apt SRU yet: I was waiting to get this ACKed upstream (in Debian) for stretch / 1.4.8, but this did not happen yet. I guess I'll have to rebuild with a different version number. very unfortunate after all the work I put in :(
[18:50] <cajhne_> nacc: Ubuntu has always set up swap however it likes. Does it not do that anymore?
[18:51] <cajhne_> If not, yes, I'd consider that a pretty major bug.
[18:52] <nacc> cajhne_: of course it does
[18:52] <nacc> cajhne_: also, i think you might be in the wrong channel, did you want #ubuntu?
[18:52] <cajhne_> nacc: for the install I chose to wipe the disk and install ubuntu 17.10
[18:52] <nacc> cajhne_: or #ubuntu+1
[18:53] <cajhne_> I'm ready to report a bug, but wanted to see if it's a bug.
[18:53] <nacc> cajhne_: right, so wronng channel
[18:54] <cajhne_> nacc: usually I work with devs to troubleshoot bugs. This is for the upcoming release.
[18:55] <nacc> cajhne_: this appears to be a support request, and this is not the support channel (as pointed out in /topic)
[18:55] <nacc> cajhne_: hence use #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1 as appropriate (imo)
[19:08] <rbalint> juliank: thanks for the reminder
[19:09] <CRogers> is #ubuntu broken?
[19:09] <nacc> CRogers: you need to be registered
[19:09] <nacc> CRogers: is that what you mean?
[19:09] <CRogers> I am.
[19:09] <nacc> CRogers: what are you seeingn?
[19:10] <CRogers> ubuntu channel with 0 people in it.
[19:10] <rbalint> juliank: i'm working on issues surfaced in u-u thus i'm not blocked on missing apt but i hope apt gets accepted
[19:10] <CRogers> no way to type anything.
[19:10] <nacc> CRogers: well, i'm in #ubuntu now ... are you on the wrong server?
[19:10] <wxl> 1210 -!- Irssi: #ubuntu: Total of 1082 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1081 normal]
[19:11] <wxl> seems you're missing SOMEthing, CRogers
[19:11] <CRogers> nacc: freenode, right?
[19:11] <nacc> CRogers: yeah
[19:11] <CRogers> yea. :(
[19:11] <wxl> i'm in #ubuntu and according to whois, you're not, CRogers
[19:11]  * CRogers grrrrs
[19:11] <CRogers> Okay, maybe it's Polari.
[19:11] <wxl> can you invite me to the channel?
[19:12] <wxl> the one that you think is #ubuntu
[19:12] <CRogers> wxl no, cant type anything.
[19:12] <CRogers> maybe I'll re-start polari.
[19:12] <wxl> i'm not asking you to dialogue, but to send an irc command
[19:12] <wxl> if you can't type anything (versus the server refuses your entry for some reason) that's certainly a client issue
[19:12] <CRogers> wxl: I can do nothing in that channel. Polari isn't letting me.
[19:13] <sarnold> CRogers: /invite wxl #ubuntu
[19:13] <CRogers> sarnold: I typed that here, but I don't think it wil do any good.
[19:14] <CRogers> brb
[19:15] <CRogers> Heh
[19:15] <CRogers> Nickserv is like: "Identified for CRogers"
[19:15] <CRogers> Polari is like... nah. :P
[19:16] <CRogers> It's definitely a bug in Polari.
[19:16] <CRogers> Sorry for the noise.
[19:53] <coreycb> bdmurray: ok i've completed verification for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/neutron-lbaas-dashboard/+bug/1709604 now
[19:53] <coreycb> bdmurray: i promise :)
[21:12] <smoser> anyone seen this ? my schroot build fails
[21:12] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/25568080/
[21:16] <jbicha> smoser: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python3-defaults/3.6.2-1ubuntu2
[21:18] <jbicha> but that same problem is causing the fix to ftbfs :(
[21:18] <jbicha> doko: ^
[21:22] <karstensrage> ok LocutusOfBorg im not sure what you are intending to communicate with "do a debdiff of the current unstable package" i have done some debdiffs of the dsc and the changes look correct
[21:23] <karstensrage> but if you are seeing something else please let me know
[21:25] <infinity> jbicha: The fix will build once the deletion is published.
[21:26] <infinity> Or unpublished, as it were.
[22:18] <LocutusOfBorg> karstensrage, pull-debian-source packagename
[22:18] <LocutusOfBorg> debdiff it with the one I should sponsor
[22:18] <LocutusOfBorg> and filterdiff for the debian directory
[22:48] <karstensrage> LocutusOfBorg, like https://paste.ubuntu.com/25568716/
[22:56] <infinity> karstensrage: Why the new package?
[22:57] <infinity> karstensrage: libufpidentity-dev is for dev, and if something's linked against the library, it will get a dependency on libufpidentity1, so identity4c seems entirely pointless.
[23:23] <karstensrage> infinity, the upstream package was updated
[23:23] <infinity> karstensrage: Yes... And?
[23:23] <infinity> karstensrage: That doesn't really answer my question. :)
[23:23] <karstensrage> i thought this is what i had to do
[23:23] <infinity> karstensrage: Why the new *binary*?
[23:23] <karstensrage> binary?
[23:24] <nacc> someone is reporting (well, technically they are complaining that nont all flavors do this) that mate enables the upstream oracle virtualbox repo by default
[23:24] <infinity> karstensrage: That diff adds a new binary package, identity4c.deb, whose only purpose is to be an empty package that depends on the library.
[23:24] <nacc> that seems ... surprising if so, as it would lead to a rather different UX only on mate?
[23:25] <infinity> nacc: That would be a violation of (admittedly, not well-documented) policy.
[23:25] <karstensrage> infinity, thats how it was originally packaged
[23:25] <infinity> karstensrage: Except, it isn't?
[23:25] <nacc> infinity: that was my guess too, and wasn't where to find said policy :) (still looking to see if it's true)
[23:25] <sarnold> nacc: eww.
[23:25] <infinity> karstensrage: It wouldn't be showing up in the diff if that was how it was previously packaged.
[23:25] <nacc> infinity: sarnold: i'll get a live instance going and see
[23:26] <karstensrage> im not sure i understand
[23:26] <karstensrage> im sorry
[23:26] <karstensrage> im not well versed in packaging
[23:26] <nacc> karstensrage: there's no identity4c binary package in Ubuntu
[23:26] <nacc> karstensrage: and your debdiff implies one is being added
[23:26] <infinity> karstensrage: The current source package produces two binaries: libufpidentity-dev and libufpidentity1.  Your updated version also produces a identity4c package that depends on the library.
[23:28] <karstensrage> hmm ok
[23:28] <karstensrage> im not sure why that is the case
[23:28] <karstensrage> it was only my intention to update the upstream
[23:28] <infinity> Also, those Vcs-* links still seem to point nowhere useful.
[23:29] <karstensrage> yes im not exactly sure what those are supposed to be, i just followed the convention in the maintainers guide
[23:29] <karstensrage> i would be happy to remove them if thats allowed
[23:30] <infinity> If there's no Vcs, having the links is wrong.
[23:30] <karstensrage> ok
[23:30] <infinity> But I'm more curious about how you "accidentally" add a new binary package to debian/control. ;)
[23:30] <infinity> (Or is this someone else's changes?)
[23:30] <nacc> karstensrage: how did you do the upstream update? uupdate?
[23:31] <karstensrage> oh i see what youre saying now... hmm
[23:31] <karstensrage> wait
[23:31] <karstensrage> oh oh
[23:32] <karstensrage> i see what youre saying now
[23:32] <karstensrage> yes nacc maybe uupdate
[23:32] <karstensrage> i dont think i "added" that, i think it was added for me by something
[23:32] <infinity> That would be pretty much impossible.
[23:32] <karstensrage> i can definitely make it look like it looked before, im sorry for the misunderstanding
[23:33] <infinity> No automatic tool would have written that Description.
[23:33] <nacc> uupdate won't do that, afaik (it will only buimp your changelog and create a new dir for the updated version)
[23:33] <nacc> infinity: good point :)
[23:33] <nacc> unless ... skynet? :)
[23:33] <karstensrage> ah ok
[23:34] <karstensrage> i see more now
[23:34] <nacc> what a sad (sly?) way to show self-awareness, though! subtly modifying our debdiffs
[23:34] <tsimonq2> Next weekend project (on my 1,000,000,000 item long list of them), build a bot to do exactly that, write debian/control descriptions :P
[23:34] <infinity> karstensrage: Just to deal with my own confusion here a bit, are you<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:34] <karstensrage> yes
[23:34] <infinity> Okay. :)
[23:34] <karstensrage> so i did this a long time ago
[23:34] <karstensrage> and its hard to remember what occurred when
[23:34] <nacc> tsimonq2: heh
[23:35] <karstensrage> so there are three possible things to upload to, debian, launchpad, (ppa's) and ubuntu
[23:35] <infinity> karstensrage: Yeah.  Well, Debian and then sync to Ubuntu, since we're already in sync.
[23:35] <karstensrage> i may have indicated i wanted to do apt-get install identity4c and that is what makes that happen
[23:35] <infinity> karstensrage: But then PPAs if you feel the urge.
[23:35] <karstensrage> and all three need different forms of versioning
[23:36] <karstensrage> iirc
[23:36] <infinity> karstensrage: Anyhow, libraries shouldn't have a way to install them that way.  That's not particularly reasonable.
[23:36] <infinity> karstensrage: Libraries should be pulled in as dependencies of things that link to them.
[23:36] <karstensrage> hmm
[23:37] <infinity> karstensrage: For instance, there's no way to "apt-get install glibc", you just get it because, well, everything else depends on it.
[23:37] <infinity> And if you want to develop C, you "apt-get install libc6-dev", or in your case, libufpidentity-dev
[23:38] <infinity> karstensrage: So, I get the intent, just saying it's not Debian library maintenance best practices or policy.
[23:39] <infinity> (But drop that delta, and I'd be happy to sponsor the rest to Debian for you, since I assume the issue here is that you're not currently a DM or DD?)
[23:39] <karstensrage> thats correct im not a DM or DD
[23:40] <karstensrage> this update is for another module i plan to package as well
[23:40] <karstensrage> </scary drums>
[23:40] <infinity> Heh.
[23:41] <karstensrage> so would you be willing to look over another package and tell me if thats the right track?
[23:41] <karstensrage> and maybe sponsor that too?
[23:41] <karstensrage> i will remove that delta and resubmit, i do agree that its odd but i cant recall why or where it got added, i realize now i must have put it in for apt-get install identity4c
[23:42] <karstensrage> but youre right thats a bit odd
[23:42] <infinity> karstensrage: I'd be willing to look over more bits, sure.  Also, yes, you should remove the Vcs-* lines if they point to no VCS. ;)
[23:42] <infinity> karstensrage: Looks like libpam-ufpidentity has the same VCS blackhole bug.
[23:43] <karstensrage> yeah thats the other one i wanted to know if it was the right track
[23:43] <karstensrage> there is another library, dependent on this new stuff, libnss_ufp
[23:43] <karstensrage> youre going to absolutely LOVE that one
[23:43] <karstensrage> :P
[23:43] <infinity> Of course.  Can't have a PAM module without an NSS module.
[23:43] <karstensrage> right
[23:43] <infinity> I mean, you can, but they do seem to come in pairs. :)
[23:44] <karstensrage> but i felt it was important to mimic glibc
[23:44] <karstensrage> so it creates its so just like the others in /lib/
[23:44] <infinity> Famous last words.
[23:44] <karstensrage> yeah
[23:44] <karstensrage> ok let me remove that package and resubmit
[23:45] <infinity> karstensrage: I also note you haven't tagged a 1.1.0 on github yet.
[23:46] <infinity> karstensrage: Were you waiting to do that after the package review, in case the reviewer(s) found something you should fix upstream?
[23:46] <karstensrage> yes and to make sure all the stuff went together, since this is for another library
[23:46] <karstensrage> the NSS thing
[23:47] <karstensrage> its much easier for clients to install from packaging, no one really goes to github
[23:47] <infinity> Check.  So this is a bit of a sanity check review, not a "please upload right now" review, since there's no upstream orig tarball yet?
[23:47] <karstensrage> correct
[23:47] <infinity> Works for me.
[23:47] <jbicha> nacc: I assume the 3rd party repositories are facilitated by the ubuntu-mate-welcome app
[23:48] <infinity> jbicha: And such facilitation is entirely okay, if it's opt-in.   If the assertion that it's opt-out (or no opting at all) is true, then it's a grave violation of all things Good and Pure and True.
[23:48] <jbicha> I also assume the Tech Board is generally aware of that app. It's an old Tech Board policy that requires rare, documented exceptions for enabling 3rd party repos by default
[23:48] <infinity> Well, opt-in with some solid explanation of WTF you're signing up for.
[23:49] <nacc> fwiw, i think jbicha is right
[23:49] <nacc> and ubuntu-mate seeds the ubuntu-mate-welcome package
[23:49] <nacc> so it's opt-out, afaict?
[23:49] <infinity> I believe I've been off and on aware of it over the years. :)
[23:49] <infinity> nacc: ubuntu-mate-welcome enables those repos by default?
[23:49] <nacc> infinity: i'm still downloading the iso, will let you know soon
[23:49] <nacc> infinity: the above was just as stmt on that package, sorry
[23:50] <infinity> Anyhow, if it does it by default, it's a pretty nasty bug that we should have caught earlier.
[23:50] <jbicha> nacc: I believe the additional repos aren't enabled by default but it's very easy to do so and may not be obvious to users what they're doing
[23:50] <infinity> If it does it on an opt-in basis, but without sufficient warning, it's a normalish bug that should be addressed.
[23:50] <infinity> If it's opt-in with flashing warnings and sirens, there's nothing to see here.
[23:50] <nacc> jbicha: infinity: ack, will check
[23:50] <jbicha> anyway, the Tech Board is aware now ;)
[23:50] <nacc> heh
[23:51] <jbicha> btw, Ubuntu Budgie has a welcome app now too
[23:51] <infinity> jbicha: BTW, that python3-defaults thing finally got over the hump, if you had any specific builds that needed retrying.
[23:52] <jbicha> infinity: thanks, already retried :)
[23:52] <infinity> jbicha: Though, it might be that time of year where I should just retry all of artful-proposed so people can whine about spam.
[23:52] <infinity> (Note that whining about spam generated by the FTBFS packages YOU uploaded has always seemed a bit silly to me)
[23:52] <karstensrage> ok uploaded
[23:52] <jbicha> I used to get so excited when the Release Team would send me an email, but then disappointment
[23:52] <karstensrage> i think that might be what you wanted
[23:52] <infinity> jbicha: Hahaha.
[23:52] <jbicha> now they email me all the time :|
[23:53] <infinity> karstensrage: No idea where you uploaded to (note I was commenting on your pasted diff before).
[23:53] <infinity> karstensrage: Though, seeing the whole package would indeed be better, if you have a pointer to that.
[23:53] <slangasek> infinity: somebody already retried all of artful-proposed last week-ish, this might be why you get complaints about spam ;)
[23:54] <infinity> slangasek: Was that somebody you?
[23:54] <slangasek> \no
[23:54] <slangasek> I suspect doko
[23:54] <infinity> If it wasn't me, I question if it was "all of", unless someone wrote a very, very, very slow API client to do it.
[23:54] <karstensrage> infinity, https://mentors.debian.net/package/identity4c
[23:54] <infinity> Since I'm one of the few with access to do it directly from ftpmaster without seven hours of round trip hell.
[23:55] <infinity> karstensrage: Ta.
[23:55] <slangasek> infinity: well, I got a /lot/ of random build failure mails, but yeah, not sure
[23:55] <infinity> But also, I figure the solution to "I don't like FTBFS mails on old uploads" is "fix your old upload".
[23:56] <jbicha> any AA volunteers to remove the ostree binaries from artful/s390x, general tracker bug is LP: #1712083
[23:56] <infinity> I get more than most, since I "own" all the proposed-to-proposed forward-copies, but most others shouldn't have that excuse.
[23:56] <jbicha> the Debian ostree package build-depends on s390x already so it currently doesn't build on s390x at all
[23:56] <jbicha> *build-depends on gjs
[23:57] <infinity> Ugh.
[23:57] <infinity> WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS.
[23:57] <infinity> Maybe I should just make the tools not allow it.
[23:57] <infinity> So, the problem with removing existing published binaries is that they'll come back if the source is copied around.
[23:58] <infinity> Like, say, when opening a new series.
[23:58] <infinity> The correct way to do this is to upload a mozjs and gjs that no longer produce s390x binaries, than reupload all the rdeps so they end up dep-waiting.