[02:01]  * hyperair grumbles at smspillaz. there's no way to disable alt-grave!
[03:53] <hyperair> smspillaz:
[03:53] <hyperair> oops
[03:53] <hyperair> smspillaz: http://paste.debian.net/136355/
[03:55] <smspillaz> hyperair: wouldn't it be better to make KeyboardUtil::findKeyAboveTab return nothing ?
[03:56] <hyperair> smspillaz: why so?
[03:56] <smspillaz> because you might want to bind another key to 'next window' and that patch focibly disables the next window callback
[03:57] <smspillaz> or .. better yet, have an option like "next window override" which allows you to specify your own key
[03:57] <hyperair> no, it only forcibly disables alt+grave
[03:57] <hyperair> the alt+left/right still work
[03:57] <hyperair> in fact, successive alt+graves don't work.
[03:57] <smspillaz> right, but what if the user wants to *not* use alt-keyabovetab but alt-somethingelse
[03:57] <hyperair> the only thing alt+grave does for me is bring up the switcher, and stay there
[03:58] <hyperair> smspillaz: right, so we should have a customizable keybinding
[03:58] <hyperair> instead of alt+keyabovetab
[03:58] <hyperair> but defaulting to alt+keyabovetab?
[03:58] <hyperair> how do we do that?
[03:58] <smspillaz> easy
[03:58] <hyperair> ?
[03:59] <smspillaz> you add an option for "Next Window", and if the keybinding is not "None" you use that instead of detecting the key above tab
[03:59] <hyperair> and what if it is None?
[04:00] <hyperair> what if i want to disable the keybinding?
[04:00] <hyperair> and seriously, why does unity get so many hardcoded crap keybindings?
[04:00] <hyperair> in natty the super key was working erratically
[04:01] <hyperair> all my *other* super-keybindings stopped functioning
[04:13] <smspillaz> hyperair: the super key should be working again, unfortunately passive key grabs with X are a bit of a nightmare
[04:13] <smspillaz> (and distro wouldn't let me push my fix into natty :()
[04:13] <hyperair> heh oh well
[04:15] <smspillaz> hyperair: I have a patch which allows you to change "detected" key to "something else" but unfortunately not to "nothing"
[04:15] <smspillaz> the compiz keybindings system doesn't really provide a way to do "detect a key", though maybe this should be moved int ocore
[04:15] <hyperair> what do you mean "detect a key"?
[04:17] <smspillaz> as in, in the metadata to have a tag that says "key above, left of, right of, below X"
[06:07] <smspillaz> didrocks: morning :)
[06:07] <didrocks> hey smspillaz
[08:40] <mardy> Saviq: hi, I'm a bit confused by https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity-2d/bugfix/+merge/79287
[08:41] <mardy> Saviq: should I review it? Did you do the rebase yourself to help rento?
[08:41] <mardy> *Renato
[08:41] <Saviq> mardy: yes, I did rebase
[08:42] <Saviq> well, I had to uncommit and commit again, 'cause his `bzr merge` messed things up
[08:42] <mardy> :-)
[08:42] <Saviq> mardy: buy anyway I'd wait for him before reviewing again
[08:42] <Saviq> *but
[08:42] <Saviq> 'cause I'm not sure if he still wants to work on my race issue or not
[08:43] <Saviq> (possible race issue)
[08:45] <Saviq> he's on brazillian time, so won't be here until 12pm UTC or so
[09:06] <Bacta> Hi I unstalled Ubuntu 11.10 and I can't start in Gnome
[09:06] <Bacta> How can I delete Unity and have Gnome instead?
[09:28] <greyback> Bacta: install "gnome-shell" to get gnome3
[09:40] <Bacta> Will this mean I can start Ubuntu without Unity?
[09:45] <greyback> Bacta: yes, at the log in screen, click the settings cog, and you can select a different desktop
[09:46] <Bacta> cool
[09:47] <greyback> Bacta: Any particular reason why you dislike Unity?
[09:53] <Bacta> Can't move it from the left
[09:53] <Bacta> My menu items are no longer docked to the top of my app
[09:53] <Bacta> They're minor gripes but Ubuntu is meant to be about choice
[09:57] <greyback> Bacta: Fair enough. Though I had to admit, I got used to the new workflow and quite like it.
[12:56] <TLE> Hallo everyone. I was wondering about a lens that would allow people to start up chats in empathy, is something like available from somewhere or being worked on? I found the development blogs af Seif Lofty from a year back but was unable to conclude how far the work is.
[12:58] <TLE> sorry, _Lotfy_, and I see that he is actually here
[13:40] <bregma> hay guys, my unity-2d panel spontaneously disappeared and won't come back, can anyone give me a clue what to look for to get back to a working desktop?
[14:10] <om26er> gord, Hi! there is a regression in the 4.24 release see the screenshot http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=178963
[14:10] <om26er> they were supposed to be 4 icons in a row now they are three for desktop dash mode
[14:21] <andyrock> JohnLea, te gusta? http://people.ubuntu.com/~andyrock/Selection_005.png
[14:21] <andyrock> it's a WIP...
[14:21] <andyrock> not a mockup
[14:25] <njpatel> andyrock, I'll pay you a lot of money if you make it pick colours from the theme ,or at least the ubuntu brand colours (for the monitors) :)
[14:28] <andyrock> njpatel, should we pick colours from the theme just for the panel or for the wallpaper too?
[14:29] <njpatel> andyrock, I meant the wallpaper area, like instead of pale orange/yellow, it could be something from the theme, so at least it matches
[14:32] <JohnLea> andyrock; cool!  I take it you have seen https://launchpadlibrarian.net/82534397/system_settings_10_08_11_03.png
[14:32] <JohnLea> (attached to bug  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/742544 )
[14:34] <andyrock> njpatel, i think that the colours are used to distinguish the various monitors
[14:35] <njpatel> andyrock, right, but they could be chosen from a pallete that at least looks nice, right? anywya, I don't mean to derail the work, sorry :)
[14:37] <andyrock> njpatel, indeed... current colors are weird :)
[14:37] <andyrock> JohnLea, thanks for the link... I could no longer find it
[14:38] <andyrock> JohnLea, in the mockup there is no clock in the scaled panel
[14:38] <andyrock> should I remove it?
[14:39] <JohnLea> andyrock; yes, thx
[14:40] <andyrock> JohnLea, yw ;) It will be ready in a week... I've to study :/
[14:41] <andyrock> njpatel, I will try to use the wallpaper to draw the background
[14:41] <andyrock> njpatel, can I use libunity to know if unity is running?
[14:41] <njpatel> andyrock, yep, I believe so
[14:42] <andyrock> njpatel, thx
[14:43] <JohnLea> andyrock; if you could make the background dynamically use the current wallpaper that would be awesome!
[14:45] <andyrock> JohnLea, should not be so difficult... :) We should change launcher and panel color according to wallpaper main color
[14:47] <andyrock> i mean if the wallpaper main colour is white we can use black as launcher bg color
[14:47] <andyrock> etc...
[15:16] <andyrock> om26er, do you have a multi-head setup? :)
[15:17] <andyrock> i'm not at home and i will not able to use my multi head setup until Christmas
[15:17] <andyrock> om26er, so i need a tester ;)
[15:17] <om26er> andyrock, wish i had, thats y i dont triage multi-monitor
[15:18] <om26er> maybe one day I will be provided with one :p
[15:18] <andyrock> om26er, you broke my heart :)
[15:18] <andyrock> htorque, and you?
[15:19] <om26er> andyrock, funny someone broke mine today :(
[15:20] <andyrock> om26er, oh i'm sorry
[15:21] <om26er> andyrock, np ;-)
[15:29] <htorque_> andyrock: i can hook up my notebook to my pc monitor if you need someone to test something :-)
[15:31] <andyrock> htorque_, great... :) i will ping you (not today)
[15:31] <andyrock> thx
[15:31] <htorque_> yw :-)
[15:59] <axisys> how do I switch between multiple chrome windwos in unity /
[15:59] <axisys> ?
[16:04] <and471> Trevinho, hi
[17:26] <seif> hi TLE
[17:26] <seif> sorry was napping
[18:41] <neo84> Hi , I have insalled ubuntu 11.10 and o configure uniy installed compiz, I am not sure what I did, Now luancher is not comming and also I am not able to edit panes
[18:41] <cwillu> neo84, panes?
[18:42] <neo84> I mean, where we get start button and all
[18:42] <cwillu> does the panel show up?
[18:42] <cwillu> (under unity, the scope of editing is currently quite limited)
[18:42] <neo84> yes, but it just have file, bookmark go and places
[18:42] <cwillu> ah, okay
[18:42] <cwillu> that's nautilus
[18:42] <neo84> I don't get systetm
[18:42] <neo84> from where I can run programs
[18:44] <neo84> any idea how to fix
[18:45] <cwillu> I don't know if there's an official/better answer, but if you delete ~/.config/compiz-1 and/or ~/.gconf/apps/compiz-1 and restart, the relevant things should get reconfigured and will work
[18:45] <cwillu> (note that the first login after that might take a bit longer)
[18:45] <neo84> ok
[18:45] <neo84> got it
[18:45] <neo84> let me test
[18:45] <cwillu> there's a whole whack of bugs in that area, some of which have been fixed, some of which... haven't :p
[18:45] <cwillu> speaking of which
[18:45]  * cwillu pokes smspillaz with a stick
[18:47] <cwillu> smspillaz, if I say that I'm getting synchronous window moves even with -proposed, are you likely to run away screaming?
[18:47] <neo84> in gconf/apps path i can see comizeonfig instead of copize-1
[18:47] <cwillu> not that one
[18:47] <neo84> should I delete that as wel
[18:47] <cwillu> no
[18:47] <neo84> ok
[18:48] <neo84> got it restarting box
[18:48] <cwillu> technically, logging out and back in would suffice, or really, even just running "DISPLAY=:0 compiz --replace" from a vterm would have sufficed
[18:48] <cwillu> but you didn't see that, because you restarted the box I guess :p
[18:49] <htorque_> :D
[18:50] <cwillu> bug #874514
[18:53] <neo84> Hi cwillu: that didn't worked
[18:54] <cwillu> neo84, you're on the computer right now?
[18:54] <cwillu> (i.e., chatting from it?)
[18:54] <neo84> yes,
[18:54] <htorque_> cwillu: hm, after a while my windows start to lag behind the cursor when moving - you think that's connected? (also running -proposed compiz) i first thought that's connected to a similar snap plugin bug, but it happens with that disabled too. :(
[18:55] <cwillu> htorque_, sec
[18:55] <neo84> but I logged in gnome session
[18:55] <cwillu> oh, not the ubuntu session?
[18:55] <cwillu> no idea then, sorry
[18:55] <neo84> no in ubuntu session, I can't do anything. Alt t2 is not working
[18:55] <cwillu> alt t2?
[18:56] <neo84> and there's no way to kick terminal or any appliation
[18:56] <cwillu> oh, f2
[18:56] <cwillu> neo84, do you know how to log into a vterm?
[18:56] <neo84> no
[18:56] <cwillu> ctrl-alt-f7 will get you back to your current session
[18:56] <neo84> ok
[18:56] <cwillu> ctrl-alt-f1 will take you to a text-only screen
[18:56] <cwillu> where you can log in with your usual username and such
[18:57] <cwillu> what I want you to do (write this down, you won't be able to refer to the screen) is:
[18:57] <neo84> ok
[18:57] <neo84> sure pleas go ahead
[18:58] <cwillu> (sec)
[18:58] <neo84> sure
[18:59] <cwillu> (1) log into a vterm (2: will kill the graphical session) sudo stop lightdm (3) rm -rf ~/.gconf/apps/compiz-1 ~/.config/compiz-1 ~/.local/share/compiz-1 (4: will take you to the graphical login screen) sudo start lightdm (5) log into the ubuntu session
[18:59] <neo84> vterm is etxt only one , correct
[19:00] <cwillu> yes
[19:00] <cwillu> (well, technically not really, but anyway :p)
[19:01] <neo84> ok
[19:01] <htorque> cwillu: wouldn't "DISPLAY=:0 unity --reset" be simpler? :-)
[19:02] <cwillu> htorque, perhaps, although that's failed half a dozen times for me in the last week :p
[19:04] <htorque> another thing to check: are users really running unity or are they running unity 2d instead (there were already a couple of invalid bug reports on launchpad). easiest way to check: only unity's panel has a shadow.
[19:04] <htorque> like "compiz settings don't work"
[19:05] <cwillu> htorque, difficult when neither unity nor unity-2d is actually running :p
[19:06] <htorque> true that
[19:09] <cwillu> neo84, note, be careful with rm;  a typo can easily delete your entire home directory :p
[19:09] <cwillu> oh, god damnit
[19:09] <htorque> we'll see if we'll see him again :D
[19:09] <cwillu> ah well, it's not likely that he'd stick a random space between ~ and / ;p
[19:13] <neo84> cwillu: now when I am loading ubuntu session, it says unable to load ubuntu logou :(
[19:14] <cwillu> sorry?
[19:14] <cwillu> please give precise messages, with as few typos as possible :p
[19:14] <neo84> sure
[19:15] <htorque> i guess that's the dialog when loading a missing session (unity → "ubuntu")
[19:15] <neo84> it says , unable to load Ubuntu and log out button comes
[19:17] <neo84> how to fix it
[19:17] <cwillu> neo84, I'm pretty sure you did something more than what I said :p
[19:17] <cwillu> either from the gnome session, or when logged in from the terminal :/
[19:17] <htorque> from a command line (ctrl-alt-f1, log in), can you do "apt-cache policy gnome-session"
[19:17] <htorque> does it say anything other that "none" behind "Installed:"?
[19:18] <htorque> *than
[19:18] <neo84> how to login via gnome session ?
[19:19] <htorque> no, from the vterm like you did before (using ctrl-alt-f1)
[19:19] <neo84> ok
[19:20] <htorque> then type: apt-cache policy gnome-session
[19:21] <htorque> does that say "Installed: 3.2.0-0ubuntu3"?
[19:22] <htorque> hm :-/
[19:22] <cwillu> heh:  bug #861710 and bug #862162
[19:23] <DBO> I should totally mark my bug as fix released
[19:23] <DBO> I have been sleeping like a pimp
[19:23] <htorque> well deserved ;)
[19:25] <cwillu> DBO, I'll take advantage of your unwise revealing of your monitoring of this channel, to ask if you know anything about lazy positioning?
[19:25] <DBO> I dont even know what that is
[19:25] <DBO> unless you mean in compiz
[19:25] <cwillu> yes
[19:25] <DBO> then yes
[19:26] <DBO> I know all about lazy positioning
[19:26] <cwillu> >:)
[19:26] <DBO> its lazy
[19:26] <DBO> and positions
[19:26] <cwillu> DBO, more than you want to?
[19:26] <DBO> but only when it feels like it
[19:26] <cwillu> ah yes, then you're qualified :)
[19:26] <bregma> much like yourself?
[19:26] <DBO> bregma, not half as lazy as myself
[19:26] <bregma> that's a bug then
[19:27] <cwillu> DBO, I got the sense from the patches that landed in -proposed that this should've been mostly fixed there
[19:27] <DBO> ever sleep in a chair because getting up for bed was just harder?
[19:27] <cwillu> DBO, yes.
[19:27] <DBO> cwillu, whats broken exacry?
[19:28] <cwillu> I only get synchronous moves, except in a few short-lived cases
[19:29] <DBO> cwillu, amd hardware?
[19:29] <cwillu> intel
[19:29] <cwillu> pineview
[19:29] <DBO> intel needs to stop naming their hardware after elementary schools
[19:29] <cwillu> and if you say anything about sync to vrefresh, I might strangle you :p
[19:30] <cwillu> DBO, it's i915 hardware
[19:30] <DBO> cwillu, my guess is god hates you right now
[19:30] <DBO> and he is a wrathful god
[19:30] <cwillu> DBO, fine, but intel is fine right now :p
[19:31] <cwillu> DBO, if the unityshell compiz plugin isn't running, compiz has no problems :)
[19:31] <DBO> ahhhh hmmm
[19:31] <DBO> thats interesting isn't it
[19:31] <cwillu> DBO, somewhat
[19:31] <DBO> so its slow dragging windows around?
[19:31] <cwillu> yes
[19:31] <cwillu> specifically, it doesn't update if the mouse moves more than ~20 pixels per second or so
[19:32] <cwillu> (where "it" means "everything but the mouse cursor")
[19:32] <cwillu> so if I move windows really really slowly, they move somewhat ok
[19:32] <DBO> interesting
[19:32] <DBO> you going to be at UDS?
[19:33] <cwillu> more interesting:  if a window opens up in the middle of the screen (or not touching an edge), it moves fluidly
[19:33] <cwillu> until it touches an edge, or I alt-tab to it, or so forth
[19:33] <cwillu> DBO, I keep telling myself that I love my job too much to take one that pays enough to allow me to do such things as "go to conferences" :p
[19:34] <DBO> mail me your laptop
[19:34] <DBO> then I can finally reproduce the problem and fix it :P
[19:34] <cwillu> want ssh? :p
[19:35] <cwillu> (noteworthy, before -proposed, compiz in a shell gave a swath of that "you should probably report this" bug;  now it only gives a couple when the session first starts
[19:36] <cwillu> if I had to guess, I'd say that m->mLocked is never being released, although I'm not sure that that's even done the same way in the patches
[19:38] <Splief> Hello
[19:39] <DBO> cwillu, I have an intel machine being upgraded now
[19:39] <DBO> in an effort to reproduce this issue
[19:40] <Splief> After I am upgrade to 11.10 I get this error message "Booting system without full network configuration"
[19:41] <Splief> 1] move all /var/run -> /run and /var/lock -> /run/lock 2] delete /var/run and /var/lock 3] link /run -> /var/run and /run/lock -> /var/lock 4] delete /run/dbus/* 5] restart
[19:41] <DBO> Splief, you probably want to ask in #ubuntu
[19:42] <cwillu> DBO, probably worth noting a few things that _didn't_ work:  various pokings at intel x driver options, every permutation of relevant workarounds settings, disabling sync to vrefresh in no less than 4 distinct places, tweaking/disabling mouse-polling settings (long shot :p)
[19:42] <Splief> yes
[19:42] <Splief> I am wrong here?
[19:43] <cwillu> DBO, also of note, simply defeating the lock test in the move plugin changed the behaviour, but didn't fix it (obviously :p)
[19:44] <DBO> k
[19:44] <htorque> Splief:  yes. either type  '/join #ubuntu' to get into a room with 1700 users or you can also ask your question at askubuntu.com
[19:44] <htorque> hmpf
[19:46] <cwillu> DBO, hmm, that's interesting:  just did compiz --replace in a terminal;  at that point, the terminal window was fluidly movable, but simply shifting focus to another window and back restored the clumpy behaviour
[19:46] <cwillu> no errors compiz stdout at all
[19:47] <cwillu> (actually, there's "/usr/bin/compiz (expo) - Warn: failed to bind image to texture" during the initial loading, that's it)
[19:47] <DBO> cwillu, without a local ability to reproduce the issue
[19:47] <DBO> I cant possibly fix it
[19:47] <cwillu> I will continue to stream useless information at you anyway :p
[19:47] <cwillu> otherwise you might get the impression that it's not bugging me anymore :p
[19:48] <cwillu> also, given some guidance on how it's supposed to work in the first place, I might be able to fix it myself
[19:48] <cwillu> although I still haven't figured out how to go from a bzr checkout to a dpkg-buildpackage'able tree
[20:13] <TLE> seif: hey, I've been afk
[20:17] <TLE> As I mentioned earlier, I was wondering about what the status is of the people lens work you did a while back
[20:18] <axisys> is there a tutorial for newbies ?
[20:19] <axisys> not quite comformatble with it .. may be some tutorial will help
[20:19] <axisys> comfortable*
[20:20] <sense> axisys: Maybe <http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/> can help you getting started?
[20:21] <axisys> sense: i remember there was a cheat sheet for unity.. can't find it
[20:21] <sense> Neither can I, unfortunately.
[20:21] <axisys> i think someone provided it in answers.ubuntu.com or somewhere like tere
[20:22] <axisys> back then I decided to swithc to classic.. but this time I like to stick to it for a little longer..
[20:22] <axisys> i mean during natty
[20:23] <sense> axisys: Ah, you don't mean development but usage?
[20:23] <axisys> sense: right
[20:23] <sense> In that case all I can advise is looking further at AskUbuntu.
[20:23] <axisys> sense: what is quickly ? next gen unity ?
[20:24] <axisys> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2010/09/16/Getting_Started_With_Quickly_Part_1
[20:24] <sense> axisys: Quickly is a (command line) tool for quickly creating a new Ubuntu application and developing it.
[20:24] <axisys> sense: :-)
[20:24] <axisys> i am in the wrong place then..
[20:24] <axisys> let me check askubuntu
[20:24] <sense> ok!
[20:25] <sense> axisys: The general support IRC channel is #ubuntu if you have further questions. :)
[20:25] <axisys> i wodner if unity made it little slower?
[20:25] <axisys> i find natty was faster in response time
[20:25] <axisys> i have 8G mem in my laptopr
[20:26] <axisys> laptop*
[20:26] <axisys> is it possible unity needs *lot* more resource?
[20:26] <cwillu> so long as you have enough memory, more memory has little effect on response time
[20:26] <cwillu> be more specific on "response time" though
[20:27] <axisys> i click on a tab on chrome and I see "new tab" declaration and then the tab gets created .. odd
[20:28] <axisys> it is possible that rsync within folders slowing it down
[20:29] <axisys> i just started with oneric today.. so I dont have enough data to conclude to my observation
[20:29] <sense> I'm not sure. But couldn't it be an issue with Chrome itself?
[20:29] <axisys> sense: possible.. i shouldnt jump into any conclusion
[20:30] <axisys> let me start virtualbox.. i thought while virtualbox was running it became slow
[20:32] <sense> That could explain things. :) But of course you may be right. Oneiric uses more GPU, so it could be that your hardware doesn't cope as well with it as others.
[20:32] <axisys> what is the searchbox called ?
[20:32] <axisys> searchbox?
[20:33] <sense> Dash, I belive :)
[20:34] <axisys> when I type vir.. in Dash .. virtualbox icon and some other paper related to virtualbox shows up.. at that time is there a way to pick virtualbox app without using the mouse?
[20:34] <axisys> found it.. down arrow picked it
[20:36] <sense> axisys: The first entry should be selected by default and can be actived with enter.
[20:36] <axisys> oh ok.. nice to know
[20:36] <axisys> again.. need a cheat sheet :-)
[20:37] <axisys> i guess someone in askubuntu will have the link
[20:59] <Trevinho> tedg: did you look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/849732/comments/22 ?
[21:00] <axisys> how do I start another chrome when chrome is running? clicking the launch icon of chrome in dash menu just takes me to the running chrome window
[21:00] <axisys> in classic i can click the icon and a new chrome window starts
[21:00] <tedg> Trevinho, I read your comments, but I haven't looked into it further.  Sounds like you did a good set of investigation.
[21:00] <axisys> i tried ctrl+click and no go
[21:01] <tedg> Trevinho, I'm guessing it must have a check somewhere for visibility or mapping :-/
[21:01] <Trevinho> mh... I don't know tedg
[21:01] <tedg> axisys, I'm not sure what the preferred way is, but I use Super+Shift+Number for the launchers for new windows most of the time.
[21:01] <Trevinho> but I was wondering...
[21:02] <Trevinho> in the standard menus, when you press an accelerator... Who activates the menu item^
[21:02] <Trevinho> I mean, you activate the old gtk one or the dbusmenuitem?
[21:02] <axisys> tedg: all the numbers are taken
[21:03] <axisys> tedg: 0-9 are all assigned to other applications.. chrome gets no number
[21:03] <tedg> Trevinho, The window gets it and handles it.  So no dbusmenu involvement.  I'm guessing the hiding of the menu bar broke it.
[21:03] <tedg> axisys, Move it?  :-)
[21:03] <axisys> tedg: heh
[21:03] <htorque> axisys: tried middle clicking the launcher?
[21:04] <axisys> htorque: let me try that
[21:04] <Trevinho> tedg: yes, in fact it's what I saw... The window inherit these settings... So the dbusmenu uses them only to show the right accel on the menu, isn't it?
[21:04] <tedg> Trevinho, Correct
[21:04] <axisys> htorque: that did it.. thanks
[21:05] <tedg> Trevinho, I can't answer any more questions until your ETSA is approved though ;-)
[21:05] <htorque> axisys: you're welcome
[21:05] <Trevinho> tedg: the site says it's approved... but I think that at the airport will get controlled further way...
[21:06] <Trevinho> In my passport picture I really looks like a terrorist... :D
[21:07] <Trevinho> by the way also if you're not sure that I'm a trusted man, who won't ever destroy your country, do you think that the fix to do is in the gtk scope, isn't it=?
[21:10] <htorque> Trevinho: just a tip - don't make any jokes when talking to the immigration officers :D
[21:10] <axisys> would be nice if this is in the topic.. would help tons of newbies like me.. nice cheat sheet
[21:10] <axisys> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts
[21:11] <tedg> Trevinho, I believe in code reviews :-)
[21:11] <Trevinho> htorque: ok... Sorry... It seems I'm risking too much here...
[21:11] <htorque> axisys: #ayatana actually isn't a support channel. the right channel would be #ubuntu, but with 1700+ users i can understand why people visit all other channels. :P
[21:12] <tedg> axisys, http://www.quicklycode.com/wallpapers/unity-cheat-sheet-wallpaper
[21:12] <axisys> htorque: i got not much help there about unity..
[21:12] <Trevinho> tedg: yes, but I can't really understand what's going there... I mean, a gtkmenubar manually added when hidden should act exactly like a gtkbuilder generated gtkmenubar
[21:12] <tedg> Ah, it's linked there.
[21:13] <axisys> htorque: i guess with 11.10 just released this chnl will be busy atleast for next 6 months with people like me :-)
[21:13] <Trevinho> but here it seems that the gtkmenubar done by gtkbuilder when hidden doesn't allow to activate its child...
[21:13] <Trevinho> while the normal one allows that...
[21:13] <tedg> Trevinho, Yeah, I had to do a bit of a hack with the mnemonics.  Basically breaking on each function I thought should be activated.  Guessing it'll be the same process.
[21:14] <axisys> tedg: yeah.. that image does not exist anymore to download
[21:14] <tedg> axisys, http://i.stack.imgur.com/pf1y5.png
[21:14] <axisys> tedg: nice.. I will make it a wallpaper for few months.. thanks!
[21:16] <axisys> hmm.. super+D does not work
[21:21] <Trevinho> tedg: I'm there...
[21:22] <Trevinho> I found a way to make it working...
[21:25] <Trevinho> however tedg how would you see to ignore if menuitem is hidden when asking to activate that by accel when the the ubuntu menubar is used?
[21:25] <Trevinho> I'm worried it could cause issues...
[21:25] <axisys> anyone knows how to change the login screen? I dont want to show the valid users.. I rather type the username
[21:26] <Trevinho> maybe we should track the previously hidden entries...
[21:26] <axisys> I rather want to type the username
[21:33] <Trevinho> tedg: sorry I was wrong.. .It doesn't depend on visiblity
[21:33] <Trevinho> but on the parent visibiltiy check
[21:33] <Trevinho> And this is not done generally for menus...
[21:39] <tedg> Trevinho, So, you can look at the check that I put into the mnemonic code.  Basically I check to see if there is a menuproxy, if it's being used, and if so then I override things.  It should be safe in that case.
[21:40] <tedg> axisys, I think you need to edit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf -- though I'm not sure about which greeter you'd want for that.
[21:41] <Trevinho> tedg: here the issue is that there are some menu items parents that are really hidden...
[21:41] <Trevinho> And the gtk_widget_real_can_activate_accel function check for visility
[21:41] <tedg> Trevinho, Sure, but the menubar shouldn't be, no?
[21:41] <Trevinho> so what about ignoring the visibility?
[21:42] <Trevinho> Yes, but that doesn't check for the menubar
[21:42] <Trevinho> in fact, adding some debug code, and running a standard app
[21:42] <tedg> Trevinho, Hmm, but the confusing part is why does it then work for normal menubars?
[21:42] <Trevinho> I don't get any output
[21:42] <tedg> Trevinho, Like non-builder ones.
[21:42] <Trevinho> while there's for gtkbuild...
[21:42] <Trevinho> tedg: because the normal menubars doesn't use the complex structure that the gtkbuilder seems to use
[21:44] <Trevinho> I've not checked how the tree is made, but there are at least three levels behind the standard menubar.... I mean menubar -> file menuitem -> unknown menuitem -> menuitem i want to activate
[21:51] <Trevinho> tedg: strange...
[21:51] <Trevinho> Looking at the windgets tree it seems that there's a GtkMenuBar, then a GtkMenu and the another GtkMenuBar
[21:52] <tedg> Trevinho, Uhm, wow...
[21:52] <Trevinho> or... not, sorry maybe I'm wrong
[21:52] <Trevinho> just menubar + menu....


[00:02] <brandini> I sure hope the defaults are good cause I still can't read this console :)
[00:06] <GrueMaster> Serial console?
[00:06] <brandini> yeah
[00:07] <GrueMaster> I wonder if you have a bad connection or possibly a bad port on the panda.
[00:08] <brandini> it IS going to a usb hub first
[00:08] <GrueMaster> Shouldn't matter.  I have 8 usb serial cables on a hub for all my systems.
[00:09] <GrueMaster> And my serial port monitoring system is an older Atom based system in a mini itx case that I remote to.
[00:09] <brandini> is the primary network interface during install the wireless or the lan?
[00:11] <GrueMaster> On server, lan.
[00:12] <GrueMaster> I don't think we have all the packages installed for wifi on the server image.  Will check.
[00:12] <brandini> I need the lan one I just couldn't read it
[00:12] <GrueMaster> top default option.
[00:13] <infinity> GrueMaster: The server image will do wifi in the clear or with WEP, but I suspect WPA will fail.  Haven't tested.
[00:14] <infinity> (I always used to have a WEP fallback just for d-i testing, but maybe it does WPA properly now)
[00:14] <brandini> will bad things happen if I reset in the middle of this install?
[00:14] <GrueMaster> infinity: The firmware used to be missing from the image.  Haven't tested it recently.
[00:14] <GrueMaster> brandini: Is it at a prompt or doing something?
[00:14] <brandini> prompting for network configuration
[00:15] <GrueMaster> You can restart.  Main thing is to not reboot during a write process.
[00:16]  * infinity takes off for the evening.
[00:23] <brandini> anyone use a macbook to do the serial connection?
[00:23] <brandini> I've not been able to figure it out on the mac :)
[00:32] <GrueMaster> Not me.  never owned one.
[00:33] <brandini> you're not missing anything
[00:33] <brandini> ;)
[00:46]  * GrueMaster wanders off the grid for a while until the kubuntu images finish downloading.
[01:12] <brandini> sweet, I finally got the serial cable working on my mac and the display is much better :)
[01:13] <brandini> are oem-config-firstboot errors trying to write to /var/log/oem-config.log because of a read-only filesystem normal?
[01:28] <GrueMaster> No.  You should not have a read-only filesystem
[01:29] <GrueMaster> You may need to reflash and restart.
[01:29] <brandini> done and done
[01:35] <brandini> GrueMaster: nope, same thing happened... "Running post-installation trigger man-db" 100% /usr/sbin/oem-config-firstboot: line 58: /var/log/oem-config.log: Read-only file system
[01:36] <GrueMaster> Hmm.  I would suggest trying a smaller SD card.
[01:36] <brandini> ext4_mb_generate_buddy:736: group 160, 4045 blocks in bitmap, 4096 in gd
[01:36] <twb> Could that be coming from errors=remount-ro ?
[01:36] <brandini> looks like it is
[01:36] <brandini> let me paste it all...
[01:37] <twb> In that case get a card that isn't buggered
[01:38] <brandini> http://pastebin.com/S8e7CXGH
[01:41] <GrueMaster> brandini: Need to see why journal aborted.  Is there any messages before the first line?
[01:41] <brandini> not that I can see
[01:41] <brandini> Im' trying another card
[01:48] <GrueMaster> Everything worked fine here with the latest image. But as I have not tested on anything bigger than 16G, I suspect your card (or the system may not like your card).
[01:49] <brandini> I've never had any luck with CF
[01:56] <GrueMaster> CF?
[01:57] <GrueMaster> These are SD.  Not nearly as fast.
[01:57] <brokencodes> Class 20 SD cards will be mainstream in a few months
[01:57]  * GrueMaster uses CF cards in Sata adapters for rootfs on 2 servers and a firewall.
[01:58] <GrueMaster> Oddly, I have found that the lower the class, the more reliable and better overall performance.
[01:58] <brandini> with the 16GB card it's been at Resizing, pass: 1 [100/100] for a few minutes...
[01:58] <GrueMaster> The higher class are great for sustained sequential reads/writes (like video cameras).
[01:59] <GrueMaster> brandini: any activity on the LEDs?
[01:59] <brokencodes> brandini, you need fsck the partition, bro...
[01:59] <brandini> the one closest to the SD card is solid and the other is blinken lots
[02:00] <brokencodes> the journal is in status (ABRT)
[02:00] <brandini> power off and fsck the card?
[02:00] <brokencodes> do sudo fsck /dev/mmcblk0p2 -c -y
[02:00] <brokencodes> yes
[02:01] <brandini> in another machine right?
[02:01] <brokencodes> yes
[02:02] <brokencodes> also, I would suggest not using a journalling file system on an SD card
[02:02] <brokencodes> EXT2 is best
[02:03] <brandini> I didn't format it before flashing this image
[02:03] <GrueMaster> Actually, I have benchmarked and found ext4 to be very fast.  But we are just now (like Monday) in the process of switching on the SD preinstalled images.
[02:04] <brandini> I didn't know I was supposed to format the preinstalled image?
[02:04] <GrueMaster> Shouldn't matter.  The dd process will overwrite the first 1.6G.  Resize will clear the rest.
[02:04] <brokencodes> its is very fast, but is designed for magnetic media, not FLASH based media, such as the NOR flash in SD cards
[02:04] <brandini> ok, it fixed things
[02:04] <brandini> now lets hope it boots :)
[02:04] <brokencodes> the journal is constantly rewritten, even if just for a read, making it burn the Flash media in the journals blocks
[02:05] <GrueMaster> Actually, ext4 is designed for SSD, which is based on the same tech as SD.
[02:05] <brokencodes> GrueMaster, you are mistaken
[02:05] <GrueMaster> btrfs is supposed to be even better, but it isn't stable yet.
[02:05] <brokencodes> SSD's have wear leveling, SD cards have bit shifting for wear leveling (poor for repeated writes)
[02:05] <brandini> it's resizing again :)
[02:06] <brokencodes> the wear leveling in SSD's is much more robust than the wear leveling in SD cards
[02:06] <brokencodes> I can destroy an SD card in a matter of hours, with sparsewriting routines, from EXT4, or ReiserFS
[02:07] <brandini> 92/100
[02:07] <brokencodes> EXT2 is much more suited to older lessstable media, with SD fits into
[02:07] <brokencodes> sorry, my spacebar is failing
[02:07] <brandini> too much pepsi ;)
[02:08] <brokencodes> brandini, you getting jitters?
[02:08]  * GrueMaster is being called to dinner.  Biab.
[02:08] <brandini> I don't think this is going to work
[02:09] <brokencodes> brandini, did you do what I asked you to?
[02:09] <brandini> yup, only sudo fsck /dev/sdc2 -c y
[02:09] <brokencodes> sudo fsck /dev/mmcblk0p2 -c -y?
[02:09] <brokencodes> ok
[02:09] <brokencodes> did it write a new error block?
[02:09] <brandini> bad block inode
[02:10] <brokencodes> yes
[02:10] <brandini> yup
[02:10] <brokencodes> did it write a new bad block inode?
[02:10] <brokencodes> you have a failing SD card, then...
[02:10] <brandini> oh fun!
[02:10] <brandini> it's new!
[02:11] <brokencodes> brand name?
[02:11] <brandini> /dev/sdc2: Updating bad block inode.
[02:11] <twb> It could also be something like he is writing the partition smaller than the filesystem, right?
[02:11] <brandini> it's a kingston class 10
[02:11] <brandini> but I'm seeing the same error on my transcend
[02:11] <brokencodes> I would zero the card
[02:12] <brandini> ugh, ok
[02:12] <twb> brandini: hey, do you know what kind of FTLs (micro) SD cards have?  I couldn't find *any* documentation in wikipedia or google
[02:12] <twb> Sorry, s/brandini/brokencodes/
[02:12] <brokencodes> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=8192
[02:12] <brokencodes> FTL?
[02:12] <twb> flash translation layer
[02:12] <brandini> brokencodes: I did that this morning but I flashed the previous daily and then todays daily
[02:12] <brokencodes> you mean Mean Write before failure?
[02:12] <twb> The thing that makes it look like a /dev/sda instead of /dev/mmc
[02:13] <brokencodes> its usually in the SD card interface
[02:13] <twb> As in the reader?
[02:13] <brokencodes> si, the reader
[02:13] <twb> Thanks, I kinda suspected that.
[02:14] <brokencodes> crappy reader == crappy sd card performance / reliability
[02:14] <twb> So what I should do is the equivalent of lspci -nn for whatever bus I have instead of PCI, and then look up what kind of FTL I have
[02:14] <brokencodes> I would say yes
[02:14] <brokencodes> most emulate ata / atapi
[02:15] <twb> Also, are micro SD to SD adapters passive (i.e. just changing the physical shape), or do they have active components?
[02:15] <brokencodes> no, just wires
[02:16] <brokencodes> passive
[02:16] <brokencodes> if your SD card reader is plugged into usb, you would do lsusb instead, but you prolly knew that already
[02:17] <twb> It'd be nice if SD readers had a ioctl you could issue to bypass their FTLs, and just use jffs2/logfs or something :-P
[02:17] <brokencodes> you can
[02:17] <brokencodes> its just a block device
[02:17] <brokencodes> yoyu can make a link, and write as normal NOR flash
[02:18] <twb> Not if the kernel tells me "hey, here's /dev/sda"
[02:18] <twb> surely
[02:18] <brokencodes> ln /dev/sda /dev/mmcblk0
[02:18] <twb> wow, really
[02:19] <brokencodes> ln /dev/sdb2 /dev/mmcblk0p2
[02:19] <brokencodes> yep
[02:19] <twb> No, that can't be right
[02:19]  * infinity does a whois and suddenly wonders if brokencodes == thebroken, or if it's just odd coincidence.
[02:19] <twb> The kernel doesn't care what the name is, only the major/minor
[02:19] <brokencodes> yes
[02:19] <brokencodes> I'm thebroken
[02:20] <brokencodes> some utilities wont allow certain functions on certain device names
[02:20] <twb> They're wrong, then.  But I mean stuff like dd and mkfs
[02:21] <twb> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Memory_Technology_Device <-- what I'm thinking of, where you bypass the FTL
[02:21] <twb> *bypass, or there isn't an FTL to begin with
[02:22] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/131503/ <-- they show up as character devices, not block devices
[02:22] <twb> Or a mix.  Or something.  I guess I don't know what I'm talking about
[02:23] <twb> I guess a better question would be: if I have a micro SD card that presents as /dev/sda or /dev/mmcblk0, would it be better to use LogFS rather than ext[234] ?
[02:24] <brokencodes> you could also mknod on the device, and chage to the type of device you want, could work, might not
[02:25] <twb> I think both sda and mmc are going via the FTL
[02:26] <twb> Whereas MTD bypasses the hardware FTL and implements on inside the Linux kernel -- mtdblock (b) is mtd (c) + kernel FTL
[02:26] <brokencodes> Thats what I was referring to also
[02:28] <brandini> I sure hope zeroing makes it work :)
[02:31] <phh> twb: yup that's it
[02:31] <phh> well mtd doesn't bypass ftl, it's more that there is no ftl :p
[02:32] <twb> phh: right
[02:32] <phh> twb: logfs is theorically better than ext*
[02:32] <phh> i don't need how it goes in real world
[02:32] <phh> nilfs2 is indeed faster than ext*
[02:33] <twb> phh: I'm saying "gee, it'd be nice if I could bypass the crappy hardware FTL when there *is* one, and use jffs2 or whatever on the mtd character device" -- brokencodes says it might work, but I think he's wrong.
[02:33] <phh> but hum logfs is more for mtd than for FTLed device
[02:33] <twb> Unless it's some developer board-type SD card reader
[02:33] <phh> twb: he is wrong
[02:33] <twb> Thanks, I feel better now :-)
[02:34] <phh> the thing is that the MMC """api""" doesn't make it easy to make a FTL-less (or FTL bypassed) device
[02:34] <phh> well afaik
[02:34] <twb> And since I can't bypass the hardware FTL, I am screwed by it regardless and I might as well use a fs designed for block devices
[02:35] <phh> twb: na
[02:35] <phh> twb: on MMCs, hardware FTL sucks
[02:35] <phh> so a (real) logged FS is way better
[02:36] <twb> Even on top of the crappy hardware FTL?
[02:37] <phh> yes
[02:37] <twb> OK, so I have an 32GB eMMC /dev/mmcblk0p1 that will have the root filesystem, and a 16GB micro SD /dev/sda that will have /home on it.  What's the best filesystem to use?
[02:37] <phh> (ogra_ is going to kill me.)
[02:37] <twb> Oh, and this is with 2.6.38
[02:38] <phh> twb: basically, nilfs2 is the best FS i've found for MMC and friends, now the devs are saying it's unstable, so you might not want to rely on it for your data
[02:38] <twb> Well I'm using btrfs on my SSD in my old netbook :-P
[02:38] <twb> Incidentally, stupid SD card reader doesn't handle ext4 -o discard :-/
[02:39] <phh> and sdcard does ? :p
[02:39] <twb> I don't know
[02:39] <twb> I magical imagination land where everything DWIMs, yes :-)
[02:39] <phh> DWIMs ?
[02:39] <twb> Does What I Mean
[02:40] <phh> :)
[02:40] <twb> phh: that's where all my hardware has OpenFirmware too :P
[02:40] <phh> twb: i've been through some specs about it, and trim/erase/whatever it is called is only in some eMMC docs
[02:41] <phh> (yes eMMC/SD/uSD/MMC/whatever are using the same protocol, and yes it seems there are different specs for them, why ? :D)
[02:41] <twb> Because as long as it boots windows they will sell it :P
[02:46] <brandini> I really hope this zero'ing pays off... I'm doubtful
[02:47] <phh> brandini: it depends on how clever FTLs are
[02:47] <phh> so yes i'm kind of doubtful too :D
[02:47] <brandini> :)
[02:47] <twb> About as clever as a five year old on PCP cut with draino
[02:52] <brandini> well seeing as I've got two brand new SD cards that were both rated to work well and they completely don't work I don't know where to turn
[02:52] <brandini> can the pandaboard boot off usb?
[02:58] <twb> It's using u-boot?  Can you get into the u-boot serial console?
[03:00] <brandini> hrmmm, maybe
[03:26] <GrueMaster> infinity: I need to file a bug on this lack of swap so that it can be added to the release notes and because I may need to fail kubuntu desktop as a result.  What should I file against?
[06:42] <infinity> GrueMaster: livecd-rootfs, I suppose.  We can wiggle it around if we have to.
[09:14]  * ogra_ runs an ac100 install
[09:14] <ogra_> bbl
[10:20] <ndec> ogra_: lool: ping
[10:21] <ndec> i think we found a bug in dkms, how do you recommend that we report it?
[10:22] <ndec> i sure can report in launchpad, but isn't that better if i report upstream directly?
[10:27] <xranby> lool: hi. do linaro have access to the secret java tck tests that checks if the arm jvm follows the java specification?
[10:30] <lool> ndec: pong
[10:31] <lool> ndec: it's best if you report it upstream directly if it affects upstream, yep
[10:31] <lool> ndec: you can file it on launchpad as well as a meta-bug tracker to track it upstream, in ubuntu, in your project etc.
[10:31] <ndec> lool: do you want a LP as well once (if) it's confirmed
[10:31] <lool> xranby: no
[10:31] <ndec> argh..
[10:31] <lool> xranby: at least not that I know of  ;-)
[10:32] <xranby> lool: ok, it would be good if someone with access to it could test the current armel and armhf packages
[10:32] <lool> ndec: I don't strongly care about having a LP bug for DKMS personally, up to you  :-)
[10:32] <xranby> lool: jamvm work on armhf..   so its simply up to ubuntu and debian to enable and package it
[10:32] <lool> xranby: armel and armhf packages of what?
[10:32] <xranby> lool: openjdk6 and openjdk7
[10:32] <ndec> lool: the problem is that dkms status does not work if the module name has 'kernel' in the name. it was working with 10.10. it's broken in oneric. dkms add, build and install work fine though. but since CDBS will do add, build check with status if build was ok and then install. in 11.10 the module is built but not installed.
[10:33] <lool> xranby: so currently openjdk 6 uses jamvm, but it wouldn't work with openjdk 7; this is going to make it a real pain  :-/
[10:33] <xranby> lool: jamvm can bootstrap itself using openjdk7
[10:35] <lool> xranby: apparently some new opcode and API are missing
[10:35] <xranby> lool: so everything that work using openjdk6 + jamvm work using openjdk7 + jamvm       robert are working on adding the new bytecode that are used by some dynamic languages so we will get support for those as well
[10:36] <lool> xranby: Ok; I actually tried contacting Robert a couple of times on this topic, but I didn't manage to reach him
[14:36] <sniperjo_> hey guys, I've been trying to get ubuntu on a arm board for the last 2 days and had no luck with anything. there is a precompiled version of angstrom that comes with it. Is there anyway of installing / compiling ubuntu on that ?
[14:44] <ogra_> define "a arm board"
[14:44] <ogra_> :)
[14:44] <sniperjo_> a Technexion Thunderpack
[14:45] <ogra_> what cup is on there ? we only support certain cpu types in ubuntu
[14:45] <ogra_> s/cup/cpu/
[14:46] <sniperjo_> OMAP 3530
[14:46] <ogra_> well, theoretically we have omap3 images
[14:46] <ogra_> but they are built and tested for beagleboard only
[14:46] <ogra_> you could try one of them and see if it works
[14:47] <sniperjo_> will i have to change the uboot settings ?
[15:15] <sniperjo_> ogra_: the standard beagle image doesn't work
[15:30] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: Try the beagle image with the MLO & u-boot from your system.  See if that works.
[15:30] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: how do i use my u-boot ? just simply copy it across?
[15:30] <sniperjo_> I've just tried the standard beagle image and got http://pastebin.com/xGSa9rL4 , couldn't read uImage
[15:31] <GrueMaster> What you should do is backup the first partition of the SD, reformat (mkfs.vfat -F 32 <dev>), then copy IN ORDER:  Your MLO, your u-boot, uImage, uInitrd, boot.scr.
[15:32] <GrueMaster> That's odd.
[15:32] <GrueMaster> I'm in a meeting atm.  Hang tight and I should be able to help more in ~15-20 minutes.
[15:33] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: amazing, thanks !
[15:52] <brendand> hi everyone. i want to do some research into querying hardware on arm devices in the absence of lspci
[15:52] <brendand> is udev still usable?
[15:53] <XorA> ls /sys
[16:09] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: Any progress?
[16:10] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: i was sort of waiting your return, but someone in the linux channel had what seemed to me a pretty good idea, put my original linux back onto NAND and then chroot into the sd card to try it
[16:10] <infinity> janimo: Do you have a comprehensive list of timeout builds for me to shove on to pandas?
[16:11] <GrueMaster> That works too.  If you want to do that, the easiest thing to do would be to pull a copy of ubuntu-core for armel from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com
[16:12] <GrueMaster> Use that as a base for your chroot.  After chrooting to it, run apt-get update and apt-get install tasksel to pull in major package seeds (desktop, etc).
[16:13] <sniperjo_> ok, i was just following the manual trying to get it back on, i flashed my u boot off a well, how do i get that back on ? at the moment i am just cp -rfa /* /mnt/nand
[16:13] <GrueMaster> I have no idea.  Never used that particular device.
[16:16] <sniperjo_> thats what the ins ructions say but I'm getting "cp: recursion detected, omitting directory "  http://pastebin.com/2mQAEJDX
[16:22] <janimo> infinity, I have an old list which may be not up to date but I can get you a new one
[16:26] <infinity> janimo: That would be shiny.
[16:26] <janimo> the old list in the meantime https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=arm-build-timeout
[16:26] <janimo> washngo and ants definitely are still there
[16:27] <janimo> the haskell one is building ATM
[16:28] <janimo> infinity, yep, all on that list are still valid timeouts
[16:28] <janimo> just checked
[16:31] <janimo> since the haskell-src-ext package was given back on gourd which is an old builder it too will fail in about 10 h
[16:33] <janimo> GrueMaster, does the beagle work with the same power cord as the panda? I do not remember having separate cables for it, but I am being extra careful now in light of recent....events
[16:33] <janimo> it sure fits in the jack :D
[16:34] <GrueMaster> yes.  Both work off the same power, as does the mx5 (conveniently).
[16:35] <infinity> janimo: Also, is there a bug for the mx5 kernel issue?
[16:35] <janimo> infinity, yes, jcrigby is on it
[16:36] <infinity> janimo: (I was looking for a bug number)
[16:36] <jcrigby> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-linaro-lt-mx5/+bug/856432
[16:36] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 856432 in linux-linaro-lt-mx5 "FFE: Enable CONFIG_LBDAF so mx5 image boots fine on EXT4 rootfs" [Undecided,New]
[16:36] <infinity> janimo: Danke.
[16:36] <janimo> jcrigby, infinity says thanks
[16:37] <janimo> :)
[16:37] <ogra_> janimo, all TI boards use the same plug and 5v (different amps for different models though)
[16:37] <janimo> 5 v  == 5 v
[16:37]  * janimo betrays his deep understanding of all things electronic
[16:37]  * ogra_ remembers that with babbage they even changed within one production line
[16:37] <infinity> jcrigby / janimo: You people need nicks with different first characters.
[16:38] <ogra_> and its fun if you plug your 19v into a 12v board
[16:38] <ogra_> infinity, at least with different colors
[16:38] <janimo> ogra_, I had my share of such fun for this dev cycle
[16:38] <ogra_> yeah, i saw
[16:38] <ogra_> :(
[16:38] <janimo> I saw _and_ smelled
[16:38] <ogra_> last time we had such a disaster it was jamie bennett
[16:39] <janimo> beginning with a j too
[16:39] <ogra_> who did exactly what i wrote above
[16:39] <ogra_> (19V inot a 12V board)
[16:39] <ogra_> the bad thing was that the PSUs looked all the same you could only tell them apart by reading the fineprint on the sticker
[16:40] <janimo> smart boards would use 12 of that for powering and 7 v for fancy effects on the leds
[16:40] <infinity> Thankfully, my ac100 and S10-3 seem to not mind me accidentall confusing their 19V and 20V PSUs (which makes sense, I'm sure their tolerance is wider than that), cause I do that constantly.
[16:40] <ogra_> heh
[16:41] <prpplague> ogra_: hey, you got a url link to ubuntu console image for panda?
[16:41] <ogra_> prpplague, natty  headless you mean ?
[16:41] <prpplague> ogra_: yea
[16:41] <infinity> Down with headless, up with server!
[16:41] <ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/natty/release/
[16:42] <ogra_> prpplague, ^^
[16:42] <ogra_> infinity, ++
[16:42] <prpplague> thanks
[16:42] <ogra_> infinity, though for panda having minimal headless might make sense once we have real server HW and dont need to abuse pandas
[16:43] <infinity> ogra_: Other than the pool, they're pretty much the same thing anyway.  So, it's just a bit of wasted disk space.  That doesn't hurt my feelings.
[16:43] <prpplague> ogra_: just need something to do a quick test with
[16:43] <ogra_> if we get extra headcount or so
[16:44] <infinity> ogra_: But once we have "real server hardware", we could just blank the pool on the cell phone subarches, and a -server build on, say, omap4 or mx5 would end up being "headless".
[16:44] <ogra_> yeah
[16:45] <ogra_> well, what people asked for (which resulted in headless) was a tiny dev image you could download quickly
[16:45] <infinity> I'm sort of dreaming of a day when we stop shipping for cell phone dev boards, but what are the odds that will ever happen?
[16:45] <ogra_> so dropping the pool on the non server arches sounds like a good idea if we actually want to keep that image type at all for these boards
[16:46] <infinity> ogra_: With any luck, a combination of ubuntu-core and a quick tutorial on applying hwpacks should satisfy the need for "tiny".
[16:46] <infinity> ogra_: I'm hoping.
[16:46] <ogra_> well, we have one netbook arch too :)
[16:46] <prpplague> is there a posted schedule for 11.10 ?
[16:46]  * ogra_ hasnt seen tegra cellphones yet
[16:46] <infinity> ogra_: My phone is a Tegra2.
[16:46] <ogra_> prpplague, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule
[16:46] <ogra_> pick your release :)
[16:47] <ogra_> infinity, oh, really ?
[16:47] <infinity> ogra_: http://www.lg.com/us/mobile-phones/LG-P999.jsp
[16:47] <ogra_> you got one of these hybrid motorolas ?
[16:47] <ogra_> ah
[16:47] <ogra_> that quite new
[16:47]  * prpplague is totally frustrated with trying to keep up with android and ubuntu for panda
[16:47] <GrueMaster> Motorola Atrix has been out for quite a while now with the Tegra 2.
[16:47] <ogra_> i guess i'm behind :)
[16:47] <ogra_> prpplague, drop android, nobody uses it anyway :P
[16:47] <GrueMaster> Droid 3 has the omap4 processor.
[16:48] <ogra_> GrueMaster, well, thats a pocket-desktop ... not a phone
[16:48] <sniperjo_> now I'm getting a kernel panic "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)"
[16:48] <GrueMaster> It's a smart phone with a clamshell docing station.
[16:48] <GrueMaster> *docking
[16:48] <ogra_> well, you said the same just differently phrased :)
[16:48] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: Is this with your stock image?
[16:49]  * prpplague wonders why this schedule info is not posted on pandaboard.org and omapedia.org
[16:50] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: yes, http://pastebin.com/LsQe2D85 if you have a look near the end it i asking me to correct the boot option
[16:50] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: and I'm confused!
[16:50] <ogra_> prpplague, yeah, at least until 2014 ...
[16:50] <ogra_> then we need new schedules :)
[16:51] <prpplague> ogra_: yea, well as you are aware, i normally do board bringup and validation, lately i've been getting hammered on the lists and channels about ubuntu and android support
[16:51] <ogra_> well, point them here or to the ubuntu-devel ML
[16:51] <ogra_> if you cant handle the load
[16:53] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: I am not sure how much I can help as I don't have that hw or image.  If you followed all the steps to get it back to stock, it should work.
[16:54] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: ill give it all another go, you think this is the best way to get ubuntu running on it ? instead of changing the beagle settings
[16:55] <prpplague> ogra_: not only can i not handle the load, it isn't my area of expertise
[16:55] <GrueMaster> I honestly don't know.  I haven't had much of a chance to work on ubuntu on non-supported systems.  It should work though.
[16:56] <GrueMaster> prpplague: By all means, pass all ubuntu related questions to us.  I regularly monitor the pandaboard mailing list, and respond where I can.
[16:57] <prpplague> GrueMaster: is there anyone that can update the omapedia.org wiki pages for ubuntu related stuff?
[16:57] <ogra_> prpplague, someone from omappedia i guess :)
[16:57] <prpplague> ogra_: hehe which means no one
[16:57] <GrueMaster> I suppose I can help (as time allows), but I don't know if I have write access.
[16:57] <prpplague> GrueMaster: public wiki
[16:58] <prpplague> http://omapedia.org/wiki/OMAP_Ubuntu_Main
[16:58] <GrueMaster> Ok.  Will add to my never-ending todo list.
[16:59] <prpplague> GrueMaster: main issues are people are confused about which versions are supported, which ones have PPA's , which ones have wifi support, and what the future releases are going to have
[17:00] <prpplague> GrueMaster: i'd be willing to spring for a pandaboard to someone who would keep the ubuntu stuff uptodate on omapedia.org
[17:00] <ogra_> usually all the same versions as all other arches modulo LTS are supported
[17:00] <ogra_> thats why we are ubuntu-arm and not linaro ;)
[17:00] <GrueMaster> Right, ok.  I can help clarify that.  Part of the problem we have is making releases work with new board changes, but we have been proactively trying to stay on top of that.
[17:01] <prpplague> GrueMaster: yea it is more of a communication issue
[17:01] <GrueMaster> So having new boards that change stuff would be nice.
[17:01] <GrueMaster> I just got an A3 last Friday for example.  No issues with Oneiric, but haven't tested the other releases yet.
[17:01] <prpplague> GrueMaster: yea, all of the A1 to A3 should be pretty much the same, the A4's will have a few tweaks
[17:02] <prpplague> GrueMaster: ahh
[17:02] <ogra_> a4 has the next gen SoC ?
[17:02] <ogra_> 4460 or so ?
[17:02] <GrueMaster> A4 tweaks?  We need to know how that affects us asap for Oneiric release support.
[17:02] <prpplague> ogra_: ES2.3 of the 4430
[17:02] <ogra_> ah
[17:02] <ogra_> GrueMaster, didnt we just discuss that in the meeting ?
[17:03] <ogra_> in the linaro topic
[17:03] <prpplague> only major item is the pullup resistors on the edid signals
[17:03] <GrueMaster> not sure if prpplague was in the meeting.
[17:03] <ogra_> no
[17:03] <janimo> can the beagle board with the extension board (RS232, eth) output uboot/kernel boot messages on said serial console
[17:03] <janimo> ?
[17:03] <ogra_> GrueMaster, he surely wasnt ... only people paid to get up that early come
[17:03] <ogra_> :)
[17:04] <GrueMaster> janimo: You mean the zippy board?
[17:04] <prpplague> janimo: the standard uart on the beagleboard cna be used for kernel output
[17:04] <ogra_> prpplague, and on the zippy ?
[17:04] <janimo> prpplague, standard uart needs some type of connector I don't have. I have null modem cable only
[17:04] <janimo> GrueMaster, BeagleBuddy Zippy rev-A
[17:05] <prpplague> janimo: the zippy can not be used as the console without modifying the code, you need to get the correct cable
[17:05] <GrueMaster> I have one, but haven't tested it yet.  Need to add a header to my beagle for it to mount.
[17:05] <janimo> prpplague, so there's no kernel cmdline option to switch to that?
[17:05] <ogra_> hahaha
[17:05] <prpplague> janimo: no
[17:05] <janimo> this is how I got my beagle
[17:06] <janimo> that is sad. How is that port used then?
[17:06] <prpplague> janimo: http://tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16144&cat=0&page=1&featured
[17:06] <janimo> I hope the hdmi output works at least
[17:07] <janimo> prpplague, I am not buying more cables :)
[17:07] <GrueMaster> hdmi?  on a zippy?
[17:07] <janimo> I have enough cruft already that confuses me :)
[17:07] <janimo> GrueMaster, on the beagle
[17:07] <janimo> DVI on a HDMI slot
[17:07] <GrueMaster> On the beagle it works fine.
[17:07] <GrueMaster> I can bring you a serial cable for your beagle to UDS.
[17:08] <prpplague> janimo: well without the cable you have very little chance of actually getting things working proplery
[17:08] <ogra_> at least if you dont have a zippy connected :)
[17:08] <janimo> ok, thanks. bye bye people, I am plugging this monitor into the beagle to test daily :)
[17:09]  * janimo hopes desktop image starts up on the monitoe fine
[17:09] <GrueMaster> janimo: daily desktop will fail misserably due to no swap file.
[17:09] <GrueMaster> Lots of oom errors (showing up as pager errors).
[17:09] <ogra_> yeah, we had that before
[17:10]  * ogra_ remembers fiddling with compcache like crazy to get plars some working images back in the days
[17:10] <ogra_> that was before we dicided for a swap file
[17:16] <janimo> GrueMaster, hmm thanks. I'll try something else the now
[17:17] <GrueMaster> I'll fire mine up shortly.  I can swap it in place of the mx5 for now.
[17:17] <prpplague> FYI: for anyone interested, i am willing to provide a free pandaboard to anyone who will spend some time updating the omapedia.org wiki pages for ubuntu support
[17:31] <XorA> prpplague: sweet :-)
[17:32] <GrueMaster> I think for ease of documenting, it would be better to have omappedia point to wiki.ubuntu.com as we have to keep our own set of documentation and I try to keep it uptodate with current release info.
[17:33] <janimo> +1
[17:33] <GrueMaster> Otherwise there are two sets of docs that can get out of sync really fast.
[17:34] <XorA> what good is a wiki if it isnt 90% falsehood and lies :-)
[17:34] <XorA> but that does basically mean a free pandaboard for some deletes and a link :-)
[17:35] <GrueMaster> We have wiki.ubuntu.com for that.  :P
[17:44] <plars> ogra_: hmm, yeah I vaguely remember that
[17:56] <prpplague> GrueMaster: is the documentation there panda specific?
[17:57] <GrueMaster> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP
[17:57] <GrueMaster> Covers both beagle & panda
[17:58] <GrueMaster> And a few others
[18:04] <prpplague> GrueMaster: hmm, i'll have to check with jay
[18:09] <prpplague> GrueMaster: i am almost tempted to change the link to your wiki pages for now
[18:09] <GrueMaster> Give in to temptation.
[18:13] <GrueMaster> janimo: Booting preinst-server on my beagle.  No problems so far (other than lack of network).
[18:13] <GrueMaster> Could be that it doesn't care for my zippy or I missed a few pins while soldering.  Or the kernel just doesn't know about it (u-boot detected it).
[18:14] <prpplague> GrueMaster: most likely it doesn't know about it
[18:15] <GrueMaster> Not sure.  Have to seen my soldering skills?  :P
[18:15] <infinity> I've never seen you solder, but I've seen you, in general.  I'm not sure you'd be my first choice to perform delicate work.
[18:15] <infinity> Just sayin'. :P
[18:16] <prpplague> hehe
[18:16] <GrueMaster> Just because I had a role in Disney's Fantasia in a previous life...
[18:16] <infinity> GrueMaster: As the wave chasing Mickey?
[18:17] <GrueMaster> More the hippo in the pink tutu.
[18:17] <infinity> Oh god, the mental image.
[18:17] <infinity> Get it out.
[18:17] <infinity> Is noon too early to start drinking heavily?
[18:18] <GrueMaster> Why wait til noon?
[18:18] <infinity> Cause that's what time it is. :P
[18:18] <infinity> If could go back in time and be drunk before you made that comment, I would.
[18:20] <prpplague> GrueMaster: hmm there isn;t a link for the 10.10 download
[18:21] <prpplague> GrueMaster: found it, but it isn't on the page
[18:21] <GrueMaster> grmbl.  Must have been deleted.
[18:21]  * GrueMaster fixes.
[18:23] <GrueMaster> There.  Fixed that link.
[18:24] <sniperjo_> I've copied my sd / to a mount with mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock4, so i can boot off NAND, so i should be trying to do something like setenv bootargs root=/dev/mtdblock4 in u-boot right ?
[18:25] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: I really do not know how that system comes preconfigured or how to revert to stock.  I did find documentation at http://www.technexion.com/index.php/support-center/downloads/ti-cpu-modules/tao-3530/549-tao-3530-userguide-0953
[18:26] <prpplague> GrueMaster: i am just going to go ahead and change the omapedia pages to point ubuntu
[18:26] <GrueMaster> Without hardware, our support is limited to ubuntu pool issues.
[18:26] <GrueMaster> prpplague: Ok.  I still need to copy the Maverick Known Issues over to our wiki.  Will work on that now.
[18:26] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: yeah, Im following that documentation now, from what it looks like, couldn't this just be u-boot not having the proper root ? seeing as it boots the kernal
[18:27] <GrueMaster> It appears to be a cmdline issue or maybe rootfs on the wrong nand partition.  Not sure.
[18:29] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: I've followed the instructions, putting it in the correct NAND act… or at least i am pretty sure i have
[18:29] <Dr_Who> are there some folks about that would be willing to sponsor / comment on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libjpeg-turbo  ? would like to get this into universe for oneiric
[18:31] <prpplague> GrueMaster: lucid isn't listed on that page, are we not doing direct support for that?
[18:31] <GrueMaster> prpplague: Lucid was a tech preview for beagle only.  Not supported.
[18:32] <GrueMaster> First officially supported image for omap was Maverick.
[18:32] <prpplague> GrueMaster: ahh ok
[18:36] <prpplague> GrueMaster: nitpick time, since the headless download is on the same page as the netbook, shouldn't the url point to the same location on both?
[18:36] <prpplague> GrueMaster: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.04/release/
[18:37] <GrueMaster> I can't move the images around on cdimage, but I can add the link to the wiki.
[18:39] <infinity> GrueMaster: He means that the headless link on ARM/OMAP doesn't have the /release/ bit at the end.
[18:39] <infinity> Thankfully, it's a wiki. :P
[18:39] <infinity> prpplague: Fixed.
[18:40] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: ok, so I'm going to drop the put the old back into NAND and chroot, when i try to use the beagle image i get an error , Unsupported machine 0x0000060a, supported machines : 00000b14, would i be able to change those two values somewhere and give the beagle sdcard a go ?
[18:40] <infinity> prpplague: You should be able to fix such minor things yourself too (and, please do!)
[18:40] <prpplague> infinity: i @#$^% up enough stuff.......
[18:41] <infinity> Heh.
[18:41] <prpplague> 11.04 and 10.10 need to do anything for wifi support, i.e. install a ppa?
[18:41] <infinity> Sadly, none of us are (even remotely) technical writers, so this stuff only gets written through sheer force of will.  More community involvement in that is always nice.
[18:41] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: Where is this error?  u-boot or kernel?
[18:42] <prpplague> infinity: indeed, same issue here
[18:42] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: it appears after "Starting Kernel…."
[18:42] <GrueMaster> prpplague: Not sure on 10.10.  May be ppa.  11.04 just works (on desktop images).
[18:42] <prpplague> infinity: i have begged TI to hire wmat on to do some of this stuff
[18:42] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: So our kernel doesn't support your system.  Use your kernel and our rootfs.
[18:42] <infinity> prpplague: I would kill to have a tech writer at my beck and call.
[18:43] <prpplague> infinity: wmat is awesome
[18:43] <infinity> prpplague: People don't seem to grasp the concept that programmers may know how to explain things to other technical people, but we often lack the skills (and almost always lack the motivation) to explain it to others.
[18:43] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: ok how ? can you send me in the right direction ?
[18:43] <prpplague> infinity: indeed
[18:44] <GrueMaster> I thought I had earlier.  Use the ubuntu-core-armel image as your rootfs.
[18:45] <GrueMaster> I'm not sure if we have instructions for working on non-supported systems.
[18:45] <GrueMaster> And it really is a bit beyond my area of expertise.
[18:45] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: you were telling me earlier how to download it and chroot in after, but i can't do that now
[18:47] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: Follow the instructions for your system on buuting from SD, except use our ubuntu-core-armel tarball for your rootfs.
[18:47] <GrueMaster> *booting
[18:48] <prpplague> http://omapedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Pre-built_Binaries_Guide
[18:48] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: can i just copy across the files in the boot from my stock to the beagle boot sd ?
[18:49] <GrueMaster> Not easily, as our image does a lot of first boot stuff that is in the initramfs.
[18:49] <GrueMaster> And it is really a process for me to try to walk you through mucking that whole mess together.
[18:49] <GrueMaster> Best to start with ubuntu-core and build from there.
[18:50] <sniperjo_> ok will do
[18:50] <infinity> prpplague: http://omapedia.org/wiki/Prebuilt_ubuntu_binaries might want to point to dailies for both desktop (the link you have there) and server ( http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily-preinstalled/ )
[18:51] <prpplague> infinity: will do
[18:52] <GrueMaster> prpplague: I'm going to have to bow out of more wiki editing this week as I have no glasses (broke last week).  I'll have replacements next week and can happily wiki away then.
[18:52] <infinity> prpplague: You could probably also replace the very complex minicom setup page with "install screen and type 'screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200'"
[18:52] <infinity> prpplague: screen's terminal emulation seems to agree slightly more with debian-installer than minicom (and it's a ton easier)
[18:52] <prpplague> GrueMaster: np
[18:53] <prpplague> infinity: is that already documented on the ubuntu wiki?
[18:53] <infinity> prpplague: Dunno.
[18:53] <infinity> GrueMaster: ^?
[18:54] <infinity> Yeah, it is.
[18:54] <infinity> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPHeadlessInstall#Booting_the_image
[18:59] <infinity> Man, I'd give good money for the omap4 kernel to be about 99% less spammy in dmesg.
[18:59] <prpplague> hehe
[19:00] <prpplague> infinity: funny, i usually change the default message level to be as noisy as possible, hehe
[19:08] <infinity> GrueMaster: Oh, datapoint for you, jasper (and the images in general) still work great on my 32G card.
[19:09] <infinity> GrueMaster: So, people having issues with "large cards" earlier were having issues with specific ones, not largeness in general.
[19:09] <GrueMaster> k
[19:09] <infinity> (Just re-installed server on my 32G Lexar)
[19:09] <GrueMaster> Being a large guy, I didn't think the issue was general.
[19:09] <infinity> ;)
[19:12] <infinity> Okay, so the last time ogra tested this whole "make a swapfile from jasper" thing, he must have been using some seriously bad media.
[19:12] <infinity> He said it took 10-20 minutes?
[19:12] <infinity> 536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 28.4706 s, 18.9 MB/s
[19:12] <infinity> 30 seconds seems reasonable to me.
[19:13] <infinity> Maybe this is due to the ext4 bump.
[19:14] <infinity> I'm reminded of the bizarre benchmarks that showed ext4 being nearly 4x faster than ext3 for many/most write patterns on SD/MMC.
[19:14] <GrueMaster> But do we really want to add it to jasper?
[19:14] <infinity> I dunno.  Creating swap is something installers should do, not something we should ship in the image.
[19:14] <GrueMaster> I thought the idea was to kill it with a titanium spork
[19:15] <infinity> The only reason we shipped it in the image was because it was apparently "too slow" to do it real-time.
[19:15] <GrueMaster> True, but we have no installer.
[19:15] <infinity> When we kill jasper (or, rather, move it to d-i proper), d-i itself can and does make swap.
[19:15] <infinity> For now, our "installer" is jasper.
[19:15] <infinity> That is, installer-type hacks have to go there.
[19:15] <infinity> When you do netinstalls, you get swap.
[19:15] <GrueMaster> Right, but we also found that a swap partition on SD is worse than a swap file.
[19:16] <infinity> Or, you get offered, anyway.
[19:16] <infinity> d-i can do files too.
[19:16] <GrueMaster> It can?  Cool.
[19:16] <infinity> Yeah.  it's just not the default option.
[19:17] <infinity> We could certainly hack those bits to suggest a file if you're on MMC.
[19:17] <infinity> Though I'm really curious about those benchmarks, and how they came to be.
[19:17] <infinity> On a journalling FS, swapping to files should, generally, be slower than partitions.
[19:18] <GrueMaster> I don't think performance was the issue.  Not sure.
[19:19] <infinity> Anyhow.  I view pretty much all of this as evil PoC hacks anyway.
[19:19] <infinity> Running a full-featured distro on SD/MMC is just silly.
[19:19] <janimo> GrueMaster, is the beagle supposed to support the zippy ethernet in natty?
[19:19] <janimo> all my hw is broken for one reason or another :(
[19:19] <infinity> janimo: Set it on fire, that seemed to help your Panda.
[19:19] <GrueMaster> janimo: Not sure, never tested.  I just got a zippy when NCommander cleaned out his car.
[19:20] <janimo> while I am sure it will help the beagle - but not my situation
[19:20] <janimo> did I mention I hate hardware?
[19:21] <infinity> It's come up.
[19:21] <janimo> I am really wondering if I am in the right team
[19:21] <infinity> To be fair, it seems mutual.
[19:21] <janimo> my microsoft keybaord loves me and that too is mutual
[19:21] <infinity> janimo: Apply for the next desktop opening? :)
[19:21] <GrueMaster> It isn't part of the default hardware, so I am less inclined to care.
[19:21] <janimo> but all this crazy SoCs, brrr
[19:22] <janimo> I woulnd't care either - I even proposed taking my beagle to one of the conferences this year to give it to someone who can use it.
[19:22] <janimo> and now when I need it, the first time since I have it, it does not have ethernet
[19:22] <janimo> oh well
[19:22] <GrueMaster> Not saying it isn't a useful product, I just don't have the resources to test all addon hardware as well as the base systems.
[19:23] <GrueMaster> I use usb ethernet to test with on it.
[19:23] <janimo> I am not expecting are asking you to test it, just that you are the default go-to source with ubuntu on arm suppott questions
[19:24] <janimo> having the largest number of ARM SoCs per ft^2 in your house or something
[19:24] <davidm> Cakk
[19:24] <davidm> Call in 6 or so
[19:24] <infinity> davidm: -ECHAN
[19:25] <davidm> yep my bad
[19:25] <janimo> infinity, desktop team does to much packaging and fighting with autoconf. That I hate more than broken hw
[19:26] <infinity> janimo: Perhapsa lovely new career in botany?
[19:26] <janimo> actually gardening was on my mind after writing that last sentence
[19:26] <janimo> too bad I don't really like flowers
[19:27] <janimo> I need to listen to some good music to cheer me up. I know a good source of elevator music
[19:27]  * janimo exits stage right
[19:34] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster:  so when i have downloaded the headless image and dd'd it to the sdcard, what am i supposed to do after ? copy my /boot from the sd card that boots?
[19:46] <sauerbraten> I run Ubuntu 10.10 on pandaboard. freshly installed, added ppa:tiomap-dev then apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade
[19:47] <sauerbraten> however, I can't install the ubuntu-omap4-extras package, because ubuntu-omap4-extras-multimedia and ...-extras-connectivity "are not going to be installed"
[19:47] <sauerbraten> why that? what's wrong with the system?
[19:51] <prpplague> GrueMaster: here is one of those items ----> sauerbraten
[19:52] <sauerbraten> see prpplague ? :P
[19:52] <GrueMaster> sauerbraten: I'll take a look in a bit (maybe tomorrow).  I am still wrapped up with oneiric Beta 2 release testing.
[19:52] <sauerbraten> take a look in where?
[19:52] <GrueMaster> Can you try Natty (11.04) instead?  I recommend it over Maverick.
[19:53] <sauerbraten> GrueMaster, the TI video drivers don't work there
[19:53] <sauerbraten> no 720p/1080p :(
[19:53] <GrueMaster> sauerbraten: I will try to reproduce the issue here and see why it fails.
[19:54] <prpplague> GrueMaster: is that the cause that the TI sgx doesn't work for 11.04?
[19:54] <GrueMaster> It worked before.  Not sure what chaned, unless someone at TI deleted files in the ppa.
[19:54] <GrueMaster> on maverick.
[19:54] <sauerbraten> the strange thing is, just yesterday I was said to use maverick and it should be fine. The guy used 10.10 at a demo just couple of days ago :/
[19:54] <GrueMaster> On natty, I'm not sure.  I have been wrapped up in server stack pipe cleaning since May.
[19:55]  * GrueMaster desparately needs to find lunch and resume beta testing.  Will look at tomorrow.
[19:55] <sauerbraten> well, I tracked the error of extras-multimedia down to libmp4v2-0 I believe. Though there is no such package in my repos
[19:56] <sauerbraten> alright GrueMaster take your time ;)
[19:56] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: by the way, the headless image was the same, diddnt like it because it wasn't a beagle
[19:56] <prpplague> sauerbraten: ppa's and updates are pushed all the time, so breakage happens
[19:57] <sauerbraten> btw, is it important to use the panda A2 specific MLO and u-boot.bin? I don't use them atm
[19:57] <sauerbraten> what exactly do they change? RAM usage?
[19:58] <prpplague> sauerbraten: are you seeing some instructions that tell you about an a2 panda mlo and u-boot?
[19:58] <sauerbraten> yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
[20:00] <prpplague> sauerbraten: that is strickly to update some items for the board id and cpu id
[20:00] <prpplague> sauerbraten: no major changes per se
[20:04] <sauerbraten> prpplague, ok so I'll stick with this version
[20:05] <prpplague> sauerbraten: do you have an a1 board?
[20:05] <sauerbraten> no, A2
[20:06] <prpplague> sauerbraten: right, so make sure you use the a2 mlo and u-boot
[20:06] <sauerbraten> so, is it important now or not?
[20:06] <sauerbraten> np major changes per se --> not so important
[20:06] <sauerbraten> *no
[20:07] <prpplague> sauerbraten: yes you need to use the correct mlo and u-boot for the board revision
[20:07] <prpplague> hence the instructions
[20:07] <sauerbraten> aaaalright
[20:07] <sauerbraten> let me copy the files
[20:13] <sniperjo_> ok so I've added my uImage to the roots files of the 11.4 headless image, when i boot i get "uncompressing linux ……, booting, done " but nothing seems to happen! any ideas, hade i forgotten something ?
[20:56] <GrueMaster> sniperjo_: I can't help you.  Our preintalled netbook and headless images are not designed for modification on other non-supported platforms.  Please, follow the instructions for creating a bootable SD for your system, and maybe use ubuntu-core for the root filesystem.  Headless, server, netbook, and desktop are for the platforms we support and are too difficult to modify over irc.
[21:03] <sniperjo_> GrueMaster: ok i thought the headless might be bare enough, is the Oneiric Ocelot the only release available for core?
[21:06] <GrueMaster> Yes.  it is new this release, with systems like yours in mind.
[22:31] <prpplague> GrueMaster: would we have to perform upgrades on some of the packages for the current omap extras to install properly?
[22:32] <GrueMaster> prpplague: I don't know.  I'll look at it when I get a chance.  They should just install.
[22:32] <prpplague> GrueMaster: ok thanks
[22:32] <prpplague> GrueMaster: no worries, just doing some testing myself
[22:45] <brandini> woot!
[22:45] <brandini> so I picked up a san disk ultra 8GB on the way home from work and I'm SCREAMING along now!
[22:45] <brandini> bad disk all long
[22:46] <brandini> *along
[22:48] <brandini> IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!
[22:48] <GrueMaster> Sweet!
[22:49] <brandini> this thing is FLYING!
[22:55] <prpplague> brandini: which ubuntu release are you using?
[23:02] <brandini> yesterday's daily
[23:02] <brandini> 9/21
[23:05] <GrueMaster> yep.  That is slated to be officially Beta 2.
[23:19] <prpplague> brandini: ahh
[23:21] <brandini> it's solid so far :)
[23:21] <brandini> how can I see the temps and voltages on this board?


[17:46]  * nhaines yawns.
[17:47] <nhaines> Well, looks like the Ubucon announcement is going out tomorrow.
[17:54] <akk> eek, 2 weeks to SCALE CFP deadline, gotta come up with a topic ...
[17:54] <akk> oh, wow, cory doctorow!
[17:54] <akk> Heard him speak once and he was fabulous.
[17:56] <nhaines> akk: we'll announce the Ubucon keynote speaker tomorrow, too.  It'll be really exciting.
[17:57] <akk> Looking forward to it! You've been hinting at all these exciting things all along ... :)
[17:58] <nhaines> I'll leak that we're calling it "Ubucon Summit at SCaLE 14X" but the rest has to wait.  David Planella will be posting the announcement so it'll be on the Fridge and Planet Ubuntu, and I'll get something ready for the mailing lists if he doesn't crosspost.
[17:59]  * akk wonders whether people would rather hear about GIMP tricks or Raspberry Pi automated cameras
[17:59] <nhaines> GIMP tricks with Raspberry Pi automated cameras.
[17:59] <akk> heh
[18:00] <nhaines> It's possible now with snappy!
[18:00] <akk> This snappy? http://google.github.io/snappy/
[18:00] <darthrobot`> Title: [Snappy by google]
[18:01] <nhaines> This snappy: http://www.ubuntu.com/internet-of-things
[18:01] <darthrobot`> Title: [Ubuntu Core on the Internet of Things | Ubuntu]
[18:03] <akk> That doesn't really explain it. Snappy is a small optimized Ubuntu, or something?
[18:05] <nhaines> It's a read-only Ubuntu Core system image, like the phone, and applications and frameworks are installed in sandboxes (also like the phone), and it runs on the RPi2 and they've made a tool that converts deb packages to snap packages.
[18:06] <akk> That sounds fun, though not something I'd need for things like my pi cam.
[18:07] <akk> If frameworks are in sandboxes how do they access system-level things like GPIO?
[18:08] <akk> Some kind of phone-like permission model, "This app and this framework needs permission to use GPIO ... agree?" ?
[18:08] <nhaines> The framework for that is manually reviewed, but you can use a command to grant specific hardware access to specific snapps.
[18:09] <nhaines> Yes, but at the moment it's manually specified.  I think there's a way to pre-specify it, and I suspect that Canonical would manually review that before it went into the store.
[18:14] <nhaines> Come sometime between May 2016 and Ubuntu 16.10, you'll be able to run Snappy Personal as a full-fledged desktop system.
[18:19] <akk> Aimed at people who'd get a chromebook, because they're super worried about desktop security?
[18:20] <nhaines> Aimed at the casual desktop user who doesn't change anything anyway.
[18:20] <nhaines> But it'll mean that any app can get the latest updates without worrying about dependancies.
[18:22] <b-yeezi> Will Canonical be repackaging all the upstream Debian apps into Snap packages or will that have to be done by each developer?
[18:23] <nhaines> b-yeezi: most likely, Canonical will be packaging all of the Ubuntu repository apps.  Details about ongoing updates are not worked out yet.  But each developer will be able to package updates independently.
[18:34] <b-yeezi> Sounds complicated. I hope it works ok
[18:37] <nhaines> Not particularly.  An end user goes into the Ubuntu App Store, clicks an app, and it's automatically downloaded, installed, and receives updates.  Works identical to today's process.
[18:37] <b-yeezi> oh ok


[00:50] <mup> Bug #1547275 opened: [2.0] Can't add a node with power parameters <MAAS:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547275>
[00:50] <mup> Bug #1547276 opened: [2.0] "No rack controllers can access the BMC of node: <node>" with wake onlan <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547276>
[00:56] <mup> Bug #1547275 changed: [2.0] Can't add a node with power parameters <MAAS:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547275>
[00:56] <mup> Bug #1547276 changed: [2.0] "No rack controllers can access the BMC of node: <node>" with wake onlan <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547276>
[01:02] <mup> Bug #1547275 opened: [2.0] Can't add a node with power parameters <MAAS:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547275>
[01:02] <mup> Bug #1547276 opened: [2.0] "No rack controllers can access the BMC of node: <node>" with wake onlan <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547276>
[01:03] <mup> Bug #1547277 opened: [2.0] MAAS prevents adding a machine when it cannot power manage it. <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547277>
[01:18] <mup> Bug #1547277 changed: [2.0] MAAS prevents adding a machine when it cannot power manage it. <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547277>
[01:21] <mup> Bug #1547277 opened: [2.0] MAAS prevents adding a machine when it cannot power manage it. <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547277>
[03:15] <mup> Bug #1547311 opened: Installing MAAS in Trusty fails to restart apache2 (traceback about the maas user when restarting apache2) <amd64> <apport-bug> <trusty> <uec-images> <maas (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547311>
[03:51] <mup> Bug #1547313 opened: newly enlisted nodes have no power type set. <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547313>
[11:21] <maciek> hi all, how can I get maas-image-builder on ubunut 14.04 lts?
[11:26] <maciek> according to docs: http://maas.ubuntu.com/docs/os-support.html#maas-image-builder, but: http://pastebin.com/xj3kSnVt
[11:46] <roaksoax> maciek: maas-image-builder only supports centos. Centos is now vailable in via the 'Images' tabs
[13:03] <Razva> any idea if MAAS + Autopilot will create a NAT for the LAN nic, or should I manually create it?
[13:10] <maciek> roaksoax: how about debian? can I make debian image by myself (even manually)?
[13:23] <kiko> maciek, you should be able to
[13:23] <kiko> maciek, I'm not entirely sure how the Ubuntu cloud images are built (and how they are converted to curtin format) but blake_r and smoser do
[13:23] <kiko> s/do/know
[13:24] <Razva> any idea if MAAS + Autopilot will create a NAT for the LAN nic, or should I manually create it?
[13:26] <kiko> Razva, hmm, it's a good question
[13:26] <kiko> Razva, I assume maas+autopilot takes care of everything
[13:26] <kiko> I know Beret would know
[13:28] <Razva> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/cloud/install-openstack-with-autopilot < this documentation is so...limited
[13:29] <Razva> any other link to some decent documentation...?
[13:30] <kiko> https://help.landscape.canonical.com/
[13:30] <kiko> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/04/10/maas-network-layouts-for-the-landscape-autopilot/
[13:32] <Razva> yeah it seems that you first need to create the lan IP, right?
[14:50] <smoser> maciek, i've not got debian images, but it wouldnt be terribly difficult.
[14:50] <smoser> the thing you'd want to model it after is the maas-images code (lp:maas-images) that creates centos images.
[15:14] <haasn> Trying to deploy Ubuntu 16.04 with MAAS fails because it tries resolving its apt mirrors to IPv6 before IPv4
[15:14] <haasn> And then it tries accessing this IPv6 address via the configured apt http proxy
[15:15] <haasn> Which then sends back a 503 because it has no IPv6-capable internet connection
[16:59] <smoser> haasn, you still around ?
[16:59] <smoser> is that new ?
[17:16] <smoser> haasn, i've raised that internally.
[17:22] <Bofu2U> Any ideas what would cause a 503 error on apt-get update only on like... 40-50% of the repos? Provisioning node (maas headnode) updates fine, others go through it as the proxy
[17:22] <smoser> Bofu2U, haasn raised this http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/02/19/%23maas.html#t15:14
[17:22] <smoser> and i have raised it internal (Canonical) is, so hopefully its being worked.
[17:23] <smoser> i raised in the past 5 minutes.
[17:23] <haasn> smoser: I'm back now
[17:23] <Bofu2U> innnteresting
[17:24] <Bofu2U> haasn: I wonder if just sysctl disabling ipv6 would fix it
[17:24] <smoser> on the maas proxy host
[17:25] <smoser> so it doesn't get a ipv6 address when looking up?
[17:25] <Bofu2U> rgr
[17:25] <smoser> i'm not sure what changed though
[17:26] <Bofu2U> doesn't look like that did it
[17:26] <Bofu2U> how did you link that to the ipv6 resolution?
[17:28] <haasn> My issue is not maas-related actually
[17:28] <haasn> (I think)
[17:37] <Bofu2U> oh
[17:37] <Bofu2U> I'm assuming mine is directly related to the maas-proxy
[17:37] <Bofu2U> headnode is perfectly fine, provisioned machines aren't
[17:45] <smoser> Bofu2U, the provisioned systems use the maas region controller (or maybe cluster controller)
[17:45] <smoser> as their proxy
[17:45] <Bofu2U> yea
[17:45] <smoser> so in searching for "what changed"...
[17:45] <smoser> you likely got a libnss3 update on your maas system
[17:45] <smoser> delivered via security updates for CVE-2016-1938
[18:15] <haasn> here's the weird thing on my end
[18:15] <haasn> I have two nodes running as VMs on the same host, using the same networking setup, using the same squid-deb-proxy
[18:15] <haasn> I deploy one as ubuntu 14.04 and one as ubuntu 16.04
[18:15] <haasn> And the 14.04 one works and the 16.04 one does not
[18:16] <haasn> Aren't they just passing the URLs verbatim to the squid proxy?!
[18:18] <haasn> Hmm, actually no, the 14.04 is still ‘deploying’. I misread it for ‘deployed’
[18:18] <haasn> Seems it's stuck
[18:18] <haasn> And it can't `apt update` :(
[18:37] <smoser> haasn, i'm not sure quite what caused the change
[18:38] <smoser> but i do believe that you can fix it with adding 'dns_v4_first on' to your appropriate squid.conf
[18:38] <haasn> I remember trying u16.04 in the past with the same result, but then I went back to 14.04 again and it worked since then
[18:38] <smoser> if that squid.conf is from maas-proxy, then it is /usr/share/maas/maas-proxy.conf
[18:39] <smoser> Bofu2U, ^
[18:40] <haasn> It's a custom squid-deb-proxy, but I'll give it a shot
[18:40] <haasn> At any rate, after adding that and restarting the server I can get an answer for curl -x mirror:8000 archive.ubuntu.com again
[18:44] <smoser> haasn, so my experience (which was also a custom squid-deb-proxy)
[18:45] <smoser> was that yesterday, squid would prefer ipv4 addresses when it resolved ip addresses.
[18:45] <smoser> but today, it is picking ipv6
[18:45] <smoser> and it has no ipv6 connectivity
[18:45] <smoser> so... that isn't going to work
[18:46] <haasn> smoser: the dns change seems to have fixed it for me
[19:06] <smoser> haasn, Bofu2U i ipened bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squid-deb-proxy/+bug/1547640
[19:08] <mup> Bug #1547640 opened: proxy tries ipv6 and gets 503 when no ipv6 routes <MAAS:New> <squid (Ubuntu):New> <squid-deb-proxy (Ubuntu):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547640>
[19:34] <haasn> Hmm, fixed the issue but I still can't deploy 16.04. The machine seems to install fine (install log “Installation complete”) but it doesn't reboot or continue the installation
[19:34] <haasn> I rebooted the node manually and nothing changed
[20:03] <haasn> Heh, I hopped on a remote shell and looked at what the machine was doing
[20:04] <haasn> Stuck on 100% CPU in a “booting...”.. probably executing NOOPs for the rest of its life :p
[20:38] <mup> Bug #1547661 opened: ValidationError for non present architectures when adding a Chassis <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547661>
[21:34] <fritchie> to commission a node in MAAS does MAAS need to be able to control the power?
[21:36] <haasn> Hmm, I rebooted my maas server and now the HTTPd is not running (nothing is listening on port 80), what's the service called?
[21:38] <haasn> Hmm, /usr/share/maas/maas-http.conf is missing apparently
[21:39] <haasn> Ah, I figured it out. When installed ntp, it removed all of the maas packages again..
[21:39] <haasn> Because ntp pulled in some library that maas was incompatible with (yet again)
[21:39] <haasn> It seems basically every `apt upgrade` uninstalls maas
[21:42] <haasn> Looks like the culprit is maas-region-controller depending on python-django < 1.7, but python-django-1.7.9 being selected while upgrading
[21:46] <haasn> echo "python-django hold" | dpkg --set-selections # work-around
[22:30] <fritchie> how can I determine exactly why a node failed commissioning?


[18:31] <genii> Free 42U 19" for someone in or near Toronto if they want it http://i.imgur.com/HWxglVo.jpg
[23:50] <BobJonkman> genii: Want, but can't get it from there to here