[00:00] <HazRPG> heh
[00:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> It runs Ubuntu apprently
[00:01] <ali1234> i want to know how you plug in a keyboard when it clearly has a type-A plug
[00:02] <ali1234> even so
[00:02] <ali1234> arm, usb, hdmi
[00:02] <ali1234> sounds like what i've been looking for for quite some time
[00:03] <ali1234> i wonder how much proprietary drivers you need to get the HDMI to work
[00:06] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: apparently it runs ubuntu 9.04 with iceweasle
[00:06] <AlanBell> which is a bit odd
[00:07] <HazRPG> interesting ...
[00:07] <damian> ali1234: the white rectangles, thats what I have!
[00:08] <damian> also perfect on youtube, but bad everywhere else.  Also youtube uploads are alot slower on ubuntu than on windows with the same video file
[00:10] <ali1234> actually
[00:10] <ali1234> i think it might be happening when a page has more than one flash element in it
[00:11] <ali1234> damian: what graphics card do you have and are you using 11.04?
[00:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh. There's wet stuff falling from the sky. WTF is that?
[00:11] <damian> 11.04 and nvidia geforce 210
[00:12] <ali1234> bug 743951
[00:12] <ali1234> sounds like our bug
[00:13] <damian> Yes!
[00:14] <damian> seems to work better in Chrome although Chrome has the space bar issue
[00:15] <ali1234> bug 755698 also
[00:15] <ali1234> chrome has it's own different built in flash plugin
[00:15] <damian> ok
[00:15] <ali1234> bug 761074
[00:16] <ali1234> that one has a video
[00:16] <ali1234> identical to what i see
[00:17] <damian> Yes, thats what I get also
[00:18] <ali1234> bug 776839
[00:18] <ali1234> gee, someone should start marking duplicates :)
[00:19] <damian> 755698 seems to indicate its adobe's problem
[00:19] <ali1234> yeah
[00:19] <ali1234> it probably is
[00:20] <damian> well we shall sit tight and await a update soon :)
[00:20] <damian> I'm off to bed.  Night all ! and thanks ali1234  feels better not to be the only one!
[01:03] <HazRPG> I'm tempted to fork QtSixA and see if I can fix it...
[01:07] <HazRPG> branch* even
[01:08] <shauno> what you doing?
[01:11] <HazRPG> shauno: sixad doesn't function as a proper daemon
[03:27] <hamitron> nn
[04:08] <HazRPG> bah, can't be bothered with this tonight... might try and do some pixel art instead
[04:09] <HazRPG> actually... my sister made a good point earlier, wonder how hard it would be to use my scanner over the network (its an all-in-one printer)
[04:41] <shauno> ugh.  this is no sane time to wake up
[04:48] <HazRPG> shauno: ^_^
[04:48] <HazRPG> shauno: dude, you messed with "sane" as a package before?
[04:48] <HazRPG> for some reason same seems to want to install gimp :S
[04:48] <HazRPG> sane**
[05:00] <shauno> nope.  I'm not compatible with paper :)
[05:02] <shauno> it looks like it doesn't want gimp, just libgimp?
[05:04] <HazRPG> nope, it wants the whole thing it seems T_T
[05:05] <shauno> fun
[05:05] <HazRPG> odd thing however, is that it scans file without installing by issuing the command: "sudo scanimage >/home/user/image.pnm"
[05:06] <HazRPG> fine* not file xD
[05:06] <HazRPG> shauno: have a look, I just cp'd it to my tmp folder http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/image.pnm
[05:06] <HazRPG> also, its not printing in colour, its just black and white for some reason :S
[05:07] <shauno> I don't see a lot on that scan; intentional?
[05:07] <HazRPG> although I find it odd that a scanner would work on -server without having to do anything :S
[05:07] <shauno> why wouldn't server want scanners?
[05:07] <HazRPG> shauno: it's a colour swatch lol, you'll noticed it has dotted lines between where the colours are meant to be
[05:08] <HazRPG> I don't know, just seems odd for a server really
[05:08] <HazRPG> (well except home servers)
[05:09] <shauno> seems like a sensible addition to print servers :)
[05:09] <HazRPG> I guess
[05:09] <HazRPG> now to just work out how to get this shared properly ...
[05:10] <shauno> (less common now that printers are adding themselves onto the network, but printer servers have been a staple of so/ho for a long time)
[05:10] <HazRPG> true
[05:11] <shauno> ours is disgusting at work.  it deposits the scans into a lotus db.  I prefer to pretend lotus doesn't exist :/
[05:12] <HazRPG> holy cow people still use lotus o.O
[05:13] <HazRPG> (last time I used lotus was back in win 3.1 days)
[05:13] <shauno> yarp :(
[05:14] <shauno> lotus notes seems pretty entrenched.  the rest of smartsuite pretty much died tho
[05:15] <HazRPG> heh typical
[05:19] <HazRPG> shauno: bah, this is a bit much isn't it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/604315/
[05:20] <shauno> hah
[05:20] <HazRPG> shauno: see what I mean :S
[05:21] <HazRPG> also, seems I need it even though I can scan if I want to set this up as a scan server
[05:21] <shauno> I'd look to see if sane-utils has what you need
[05:21] <shauno> "This package includes the command line frontend scanimage, the saned server and the sane-find-scanner utility, along with their documentation."
[05:22] <shauno> I'd assume you just want saned & libsane, rather than the frontends package
[05:25] <HazRPG> bah, going to reboot and see what happens
[05:25] <HazRPG> well yeah exactly :)
[05:25] <HazRPG> might try that after it boots back up
[05:26] <shauno> or cheat and use tasksel to just pick the print-server task
[05:26] <shauno> (tasksel --test install print-server, and again without --test if it looks sensible)
[05:28] <shauno> anyhow, gotta head to work.  stay sane inside insanity :)
[05:31] <HazRPG> bah, well reading this was useless: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ScanningHowTo
[05:32] <shauno> Feels wrong being this light out. Usually light=late
[05:45] <HazRPG> heh know the feeling :P
[05:46] <HazRPG> shauno: apparently sane-utils is already installed it seems
[05:46] <HazRPG> however I don't have a "scanner" group though, which I find odd
[05:46] <shauno> So figure out how saned works :)
[05:46] <HazRPG> lol this is what I'm trying to do ^_^
[06:05] <HazRPG> o.o
[06:08] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[06:08] <HazRPG> scanners suck :/
[06:10] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Oh? I plugged mine in and simple-scan picked it up and worked immediately
[06:10] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nah on my server :P
[06:10] <HazRPG> "sudo scanimage -L" picks up my scanner just fine... and can use said command to scan
[06:11] <HazRPG> however I can't get saned to do the same :S
[06:11] <HazRPG> (user called: saned)
[06:15] <shauno> this sounds like permissions rather than a sane issue?
[06:20] <HazRPG> well it is, but I can't work it out
[06:21] <HazRPG> I've tried putting saned into group: lp, saned, scanner (had to create this group)
[06:21] <HazRPG> and no joys
[06:21] <shauno> have you figured out what it's using in /dev ?
[06:23] <HazRPG> nope
[06:24] <HazRPG> everything is either root, tty, dialout, disk, cdrom
[06:26] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check with ACLs
[06:27] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: install the "acl" package, then "getfacl" on the device
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> (for example, check /dev/snd/* on your desktop -- they're root:audio but have the current desktop user added by ACL)
[06:28] <MartijnVdS> (can of worms, anyone?)
[06:29] <HazRPG> how do I even work out which one of these is my scanner (looks a massive list of /dev)
[06:29] <HazRPG> its obv one of the usb ones though - that much I know
[06:30] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Check with scanimage what the device name is
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: mine says: device `plustek:libusb:002:003' is a Canon CanoScan LiDE25 flatbed scanner
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so I check /dev/bus/usb/002/003
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and it's root:root, with me added by ACL
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: probably done by consolekit + udev working together
[06:32] <HazRPG> I get "root:root" essentially
[06:32] <HazRPG> and that's it
[06:32] <shauno> getfacl doesn't show anything else?
[06:32] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I think you might need a custom udev rule to make it owned by user saned ?
[06:33] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules for examples, then create your own in /etc/udev/rules.d
[06:33] <HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604330/
[06:33] <MartijnVdS> (never edit in /lib or it be overwritten on upgrade)
[06:33] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that means "there's no ACL here"
[06:35] <HazRPG> well my printer is already in /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules
[06:36] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's an integrated printer/scanner combination?
[06:36] <HazRPG> yup
[06:36] <MartijnVdS> y u no buy networked device? :)
[06:36] <HazRPG> EPSON DX5050
[06:36] <HazRPG> I no buy this one, mum bought me it as a moving-in present about 2-3 years ago
[06:37] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ScanningHowTo#Permission issues ?
[06:37] <HazRPG> I followed that earlier lol
[06:37] <MartijnVdS> hmmm
[06:37] <HazRPG> I had to create scanner
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you su -s /bin/bash -u saned -
[06:38] <HazRPG> even added saned to lp
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: does sane-find-scanner work? :)
[06:39] <HazRPG> yup that works
[06:40] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and scanimage -L ?
[06:40] <HazRPG> however scanimage -L still shows up as being "No scanners were identified..."
[06:41] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what happens if you scanimage -d <string obtained from scanimage -L as root>
[06:41] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it should tell you what the problem is
[06:41] <MartijnVdS> oh maybe stop saned first (it might be hogging the device)
[06:43] <HazRPG> scanimage: open of device epson2:libusb:001:002 failed: Access to resource has been denied
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> At least it's a start :)
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> what does "id" say?
[06:44] <HazRPG> uid=105(saned) gid=113(saned) groups=7(lp),113(saned),116(admin)
[06:44] <HazRPG> like I said, I shoved it into several places to see what would happen
[06:45] <MartijnVdS> and ls -l /dev/bus /dev/bus/usb /dev/bus/usb/001 /dev/bus/usb/001/002
[06:45] <HazRPG> although 116 should say scanner not admin
[06:45] <HazRPG> which might be the problem
[06:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you manually added that to passwd/group then?
[06:45] <HazRPG> hold on
[06:45] <MartijnVdS> adduser username groupname \o/
[06:46] <HazRPG> yeah, that didn't work cos scanner didn't actually exist and was too lazy to remember the command to create it - so created it manually in /etc/group lol
[06:46] <HazRPG> just changed it to 117
[06:46] <HazRPG> hang on
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> don't do that.. use adduser/addgroup
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> maybe --system
[06:46] <HazRPG> uid=105(saned) gid=113(saned) groups=7(lp),113(saned),117(scanner)
[06:46] <HazRPG> \o/
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> ok.. now try scanimage -L
[06:47] <HazRPG> I did, and nothing :'(
[06:47] <HazRPG> (10.04 server btw)
[06:47] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG:can you pastebin the ls -l /dev/bus /dev/bus/usb /dev/bus/usb/001 /dev/bus/usb/001/002
[06:47] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the output of*
[06:48] <MartijnVdS> (done as root)
[06:48] <HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604334/
[06:49] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the device is root:root, not root"scanner
[06:49] <MartijnVdS> so your udev rule doesn't work, or it wasn't triggered
[06:49] <HazRPG> Hmm
[06:49] <MartijnVdS> (your printer rule probably works for /dev/lp*?)
[06:50] <HazRPG> I don't have a /dev/lp* anything
[06:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Whichever device is your printer :)
[06:51] <HazRPG> well in rules: /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules
[06:51] <HazRPG> I have
[06:51] <HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604335/
[06:51] <HazRPG> which is my scanner
[06:52] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: run "udevadm monitor", then unplug + back in
[06:52] <HazRPG> just did lsusb and checked the codes, and they do match
[06:53] <HazRPG> wow that did a lot of things >_<
[06:53] <HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604336/
[06:54] <HazRPG> its got a built-in card reader too btw
[06:54] <HazRPG> (just looking at the output)
[06:54] <MartijnVdS> that's the scsi bit :)
[06:54] <HazRPG> lol yeah I know ^_^
[06:54] <MartijnVdS> and you have an "usb/lp0" that's the printer part
[06:55] <shauno> uhoh .. found out I'm getting feedback on my job application this morning.  this could be interesting.
[06:55] <HazRPG> indeed
[06:55] <HazRPG> shauno: good luck
[06:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you need to make sure the udev rule ran
[06:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try finding a udev-rules debug guide :)
[06:56] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: or double-check the device file now -- it might have been confused by the broken "scanner" group you had before
[06:57] <MartijnVdS> (device might have changed after unplug -- re-check its location with scanimage -L)
[06:57] <HazRPG> nope saned still can't see it
[06:59] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what if you manually chgrp scanner the device?
[06:59] <HazRPG> should I make my own /etc/udev/rules.d ?
[07:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not yet, first check if this is really the problem
[07:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you manually chgrp it, and saned works, create the /etc/udev/rules.d/99hazmaster.rules to fix it :)
[07:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, file a bug about it
[07:01] <HazRPG> chgrp what?
[07:01] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: /dev/bus/usb/whatever/it/is/now
[07:02] <HazRPG> so: chgrp scanner /dev/bus/usb/001/003
[07:02] <MartijnVdS> if that's where it is now, yes
[07:02] <MartijnVdS> (as I said, it might have moved when you unplugged and replugged)
[07:03] <HazRPG> lol yeah that is what lsusb said
[07:03] <HazRPG> 001/003
[07:03] <HazRPG> bah, okay now saned can see it woo \o/
[07:04] <HazRPG> although I figured that would work
[07:04] <HazRPG> now to make a rule I guess...
[07:05] <HazRPG> do I literally just put: ATTRS{idVendor}=="04b8", ATTRS{idProduct}=="082b", ENV{libsane_matched}="yes"
[07:05] <HazRPG> and does the file have to start with 99
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> no, it does have to start with 2 digits though, and be >30
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> >40
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> (after libsane)
[07:06] <HazRPG> ah
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> Lots of "udev rules" HOWTOs on the webs
[07:07]  * MartijnVdS off doing some much-needed vacuuming
[07:08] <jibadeeha> time for my first coffee of the day me thinks
[07:12] <shauno> after a week off work, I'm not sure what I should do first.  minecraft or movies :)
[07:12] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Minecraft movies?
[07:12] <shauno> even bettererer.  james bond movies :)
[07:16] <HazRPG> ^_^
[07:17] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, this is ironic, but does this look sane? (Its a copy of the original, however I've added ", GROUP="scanner" and seems to work (tried unplugging it and plugging it back in)
[07:18] <HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604343/
[07:18] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: good find, file a bug :)
[07:18] <HazRPG> I wasn't sure if the start and end parts were needed - all I was sure about was line 6 which starts "ATTRS..."
[07:19] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ^_^
[07:19] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Was skimming through the udev docs and just after it mentions stuff about KERNEL etc it said GROUP... and instantly took my interest lol
[07:20] <HazRPG> although not sure where to file this under
[07:20] <HazRPG> sane?
[07:20] <HazRPG> udev?
[07:20] <HazRPG> general 10.04 bug ?
[07:20] <shauno> looks like it'd be libsane
[07:20] <HazRPG> (one thing I hate about filing bugs... never knowing where to put it)
[07:21] <HazRPG> shauno: thanks :)
[07:21] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Also, much thanks for helping fault find :0
[07:21] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Just file a bug on libsane (whichever package /lib/udev/rules.d/40libsane.rules is in)
[07:21] <HazRPG> :)*
[07:21] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that the "setfacl" at the bottom doesn't seem to work
[07:22] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed
[07:54] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:54] <AlanBell> how do I burn a .iso to a CD from the command line?
[07:58] <shauno> believe wodim is cdrecord's modern equivalent
[07:59] <HazRPG> AlanBell: I've got a script somewhere I made to do that
[07:59] <HazRPG> AlanBell: but yeah, shauno is right its wodim - I use: wodim dev=/dev/scd0 -v -data cd_image.iso
[08:00] <HazRPG> woot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/778896
[08:02] <HazRPG> I swear I can never do enough on launchpad to keep any karma at all it seems
[08:03] <HazRPG> think I've wrote that bug report alright?
[08:03] <HazRPG> think that's the first proper bug report I've actually had to hunt for
[08:03] <HazRPG> (or rather hunt the package for even)
[08:04] <AlanBell> thanks HazRPG
[08:05] <HazRPG> AlanBell: no problem
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: file more bugs :P
[08:05] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't come across bugs very often :P
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just wodim cd_image.iso works if you only have one burner
[08:06] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have two ^_^
[08:06] <HazRPG> I also use -v cos I like to see what's happening :P
[08:08] <HazRPG> the only reason I use wodim usually though, is for writing several data tracks though
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> Ponder.. http://www.bol.com/nl/p/elektronica/motorola-xoom-wifi/9005000011298863/index.html
[08:08] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: shiny! Although I think "touchpads" are pointless though lol
[08:09] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'll probably change my mind should I ever own one
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't know if I want it :)
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> it's a lot of money for "maybe"
[08:09] <HazRPG> :P
[08:10] <HazRPG> bah
[08:10] <HazRPG> seems part two of my epic adventure isn't coming along as planned
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG IN SPAAAACE ?
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> time to raid a supermarket.
[08:11] <HazRPG> does /etc/inetd.conf still exist in 10.04.2 :S
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you have inetd installed
[08:12] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Most people don't have it though.. just run the daemon :)
[08:12] <HazRPG> I just have
[08:12] <MartijnVdS> or install xinetd, or micro-inetd
[08:12] <HazRPG> ooo wait
[08:12] <HazRPG> I heard the scanner do something
[08:12] <MartijnVdS> rinetd rlinetd
[08:12] <HazRPG> woo \o/
[08:13] <HazRPG> we has scanning capabilities xD;;;
[08:13] <HazRPG> *jumps around, while bouncing off the walls!*
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> (blue gel?)
[08:14] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: might as well be xD
[08:15] <HazRPG> please say my sis left herself logged in *slides chair over to her PC*
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> is there a sane driver for windows?
[08:15] <HazRPG> ooo yay ;D
[08:16] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: errr... *don't know*
[08:16] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: There's no windows in the household no more, all got scrapped when I finally got ubuntu-server running
[08:17] <HazRPG> the only system actually before I did that, that still had windows was my PC... all the rest had been converted about a year ago
[08:18] <HazRPG> going to draw a picture to scan, so that I can scan it on my sister's machine and leave it running for when she's next on it to show I finally got the scanner going
[08:25] <AndroUser> Hello folks
[08:26] <AndroUser> Trying to get usb tethering with htc Desire working on 11.04. Connects but no Internet
[08:27] <AndroUser> Or any way to install php5-gd with no network? I have network on my phone, downloaded php5 - gd deb but depends on phpapi-20060613+lfs
[08:28] <AndroUser> Can't find a deb for that
[08:30] <shauno> MartijnVdS: apparently the windows version is only as a front-end to a unix-hosted server
[08:30] <HazRPG> shauno: makes sense really
[08:30] <HazRPG> its twain that windows uses iirc
[08:31] <HazRPG> or at least it did back when I had a parallel port scanner
[08:31] <shauno> I think it's WIA now
[09:06] <dragonkeeper> anyone used gnome 3 yet ?
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> dragonkeeper: brobostigon has, but he's not here atm
[09:10] <shauno> I tried it for an evening, but not much more than that; haven't sorted out my wireless drivers yet
[09:11] <dragonkeeper> when you click on a windows does the  files edit view  menus go to the top taskbar like unity does ?
[09:11] <shauno> nope
[09:11] <dragonkeeper> :) cool  ill try it then
[09:12] <shauno> I found it interesting, and worth playing with; but! ..
[09:12] <dragonkeeper> but unity wont work again
[09:13] <shauno> there's no sane / supported downgrade path from the PPAs, so make sure you trust your backups
[09:13] <shauno> (eg, bring your own Plan B, because they don't have one)
[09:14] <dragonkeeper> ahh everything is stored on slave drives (incl saved config files and passwords  so backups are not an issue
[09:14] <shauno> just checkin :)
[09:17] <Psychobudgie> I'm using gnome 3 and gnome-desktop here
[09:18] <Psychobudgie> have been for 3 weeks now
[09:18] <Psychobudgie> prefer it greatly to unity
[09:18] <Psychobudgie> the whole 'unity won't work again' thing, I viewed as a positive
[09:19] <dragonkeeper> i prefer no gui to unity lol
[09:19] <popey> brobostigon said thats been fixed
[09:19] <shauno> I won't deny that myself.  I just think if they're going to make potentially one-way changes, it's fair to make them aware of that first
[09:19] <Psychobudgie> I agree
[09:19] <Psychobudgie> people should be aware of the consequences of what they install via ppa
[09:20]  * dutchie wonders how much space he will need for a debian chroot
[09:20] <dragonkeeper> will i need to reboot after or just restart session ?
[09:21] <Psychobudgie> reboot
[09:23] <Psychobudgie> also once you are happy it is all working, you may wish to uninstall unity completely
[09:23] <dragonkeeper> yes i would   atm i only use gnome classic
[09:23] <Psychobudgie> especially as it's the only way of effectively removing the unity scrollbars
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: uhrm. no.
[09:24] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, uhrm. yes.
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: just removing the overlay-scrollbar + related packages worked for me
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: not all of unity
[09:25] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, didn't here
[09:25] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, others have had the same problem
[09:25] <dragonkeeper> is the unity scroll bars the  orange strips that when highlighted  brings a slide bar up ?
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: without liboverlay-scrollbar it can't draw those new-fangled scrollbars...
[09:25] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, the only thing that worked was completely removing the unity package
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> just like it can't show global menus without appmenu-gtk
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> (remove package -> WIN!)
[09:26] <popey> and appmenu-qt :)
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: yes, and that.
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> popey: I heard mucking about in /etc/X11/Xsession.d works as well
[09:26] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, I don't know why, but I can assure you that despite removing the scrollbar package in the beta working fine, in the final release it did not work
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: Well, it works for me :)
[09:27] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, I had to remove the unity package to get it to go
[09:28] <Psychobudgie> splitting hairs anyway
[09:28] <Psychobudgie> it's awful no matter how you remove it
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: setting the LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 environment variable (in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ somewhere) should be enough
[09:29] <shauno> nuking the site from orbit should be sufficient
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> shauno: as always
[09:30] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, again, that worked in the beta for me, but not with a clean install of the final release
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> shauno: that, or the "Alderaan method"
[09:30] <popey> wonder how many distros have chosen to go with GNOME Shell
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: Fedora. Aaand.. Fedora.
[09:30] <shauno> I wonder how many distros have simply decided it's too early to chose?
[09:31] <shauno> if I was $random_distro, right now I'd be maintaining the status quo whilst waiting for the dust to settle everywhere else.  then emulate the survivors
[09:31] <popey> http://vimeo.com/13797705
[09:31] <popey> wow
[09:31] <popey> look at the size of the top of that gedit window
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Why emulate if you can innovate? :)
[09:31] <popey> thats a massive waste of space
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> eek
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> same with the nautilus window
[09:32] <popey> you could fit 6-8 lines of text in that
[09:32] <shauno> MartijnVdS: when innovate means 'emulate osx badly'?  :p
[09:32] <popey> thats insane
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> popey: Next thing they'll implement a "Ribbon"-like interface
[09:32] <popey> :)
[09:32] <Psychobudgie> it's gnome-desktop on a netbook
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> and become even more unusable
[09:33] <popey> that doesnt look like a netbook resolution to me.
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> 1920x1200x10" 8-)
[09:34] <popey> heh
[09:34]  * popey gets a microscope
[09:34] <Psychobudgie> popey, you are aware that you can actually turn that toolbar off ?
[09:35] <dragonkeeper> hmm everytime i sudo apt-get install gnome-shell  it just gives me a window sayinbg system detected a problem    do you want to report the problem now   cancel or report options ...   thought i got away from these error reports when i kicked windows to the curb
[09:35] <Psychobudgie> popey, like most things there's an option for that
[09:35] <shauno> I don't get it.  window chrome + menubar + toolbar + tabbar has been pretty normal in most mdi for a while
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> shauno: sure, but the trend is to have less chrome
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> and less menubar
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> and less toolbar
[09:36] <Psychobudgie> shauno, yeah it has, but popey is using dapper
[09:36] <popey> i am?
[09:36] <Psychobudgie> see
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> Dapper.. the first LTS to go out of support
[09:37] <Psychobudgie> I miss Dapper
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: get a vm :)
[09:37] <Psychobudgie> heh
[09:38] <shauno> dapper went out of support about 2 weeks after  Ifound my disks for it.  typical.
[09:38]  * popey digs out his warty cd
[09:38] <popey> cds
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> shauno: It'll go out of support next month.
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> shauno: (server bits)
[09:39] <shauno> I had those, but they didn't make the move back to europe with me
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: ah back when the Live CD and install CD were different :)
[09:39] <popey> yeah
[09:39] <Psychobudgie> sniff
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> also, before proper hardware management
[09:40] <Psychobudgie> Unity was but a twinkle in satan's eye
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: you're calling sabdfl satan now?
[09:40] <shauno> but they'd already poached jdub & ruined my debian+garnome setup
[09:40] <dragonkeeper> i keep getting this error when trying to install  dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-themes standard_3.0.0-2~natty1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/share/icons/HighContrastInverse/index.theme', which is also in package gnome-accessibility-themes 3.0.0-0ubuntu1~build2 dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) Errors were encountered while processing: /
[09:40] <dragonkeeper> var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-themes-standard_3.0.0-2~natty1_amd64.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> ooh http://ubuntu.ecchi.ca/wallpapers/
[09:42] <Psychobudgie> you need to remove the gnome-accessibility-themes before installing
[09:43] <shauno> heh, with a special entry for the naked people debacle.  nice :)
[09:43] <Psychobudgie> it's on the ppa thread on the forums I seem to remember
[09:43] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, do that and it should work hunky dory
[09:44] <AlanBell> popey: did you mention the other day that the .iso downloads now go to somewhere else? a CDN?
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Hmm naked people :)
[09:44] <AlanBell> I think that has broken the zsync downloads
[09:44] <dragonkeeper> well it wont install or uninstall anything   it just keeps asking me to  sudo apt-get -f install  to correct the errors  in with i get the error previously posted
[09:45] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1742343&highlight=gnome+ppa
[09:45] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, follow that
[09:46] <dragonkeeper> cant
[09:46] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, Issues with strange themes, go to that bit first then do the install
[09:49] <popey> AlanBell: yeah, the 11.04 isos do
[09:49] <popey> AlanBell: you can see that by wgetting one
[09:50] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604363/ AlanBell
[09:50] <dragonkeeper> phychobudgie  huh  no  it wont install anything now  it wants to install gnomes-themes-standard  before it will do anything else and that gets errors on install
[09:50] <shauno> tried apt-get -f install ?
[09:51] <dragonkeeper> yup and i get and error
[09:51] <dragonkeeper> an*
[09:51] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, I had that problem during the beta, trying to recall how I fixed it
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> dpkg --configure -a?
[09:56] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, the answer is in http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10669295
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> dpkg --purge offending-package
[09:56] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, I just can't remember where
[09:56] <Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, sudo dpkg -i --force-all /var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-themes-standard_3.0.0-1~~build1_amd64.deb
[09:57] <Psychobudgie> pretty sure that's how I got round it
[09:57] <Psychobudgie> thanks MartijnVdS for the memory jog
[09:58] <dragonkeeper> yup that worked
[09:59] <Psychobudgie> now, follow that first link starting with the themes bit, and then the install and you should be fine
[10:00] <AlanBell> thanks popey
[10:01] <popey> np
[10:03] <AlanBell> should the amd64+mac disk be just as good for people who don't have a mac?
[10:04] <dragonkeeper> reboot
[10:04] <shauno> AlanBell: as far as I can tell, they won't notice a difference if their machine doesn't use efi/uefi at all
[10:06] <shauno> the +mac bit comes in if you try to boot with efi, but do so in ways that don't quite match up with the uefi spec
[10:06] <popey> AlanBell: no
[10:07] <AlanBell> bother
[10:08] <AlanBell> with bittorrent can you start with nearly the right file and get the rest like you can with zsync?
[10:08] <dutchie> i believe so
[10:08] <popey> really?
[10:08] <dutchie> well bittorrent does chunking anyway, no?
[10:09] <popey> surely it's going to re-get the whole thing
[10:09] <gord> depends how much of a change it is
[10:09] <AlanBell> it seems to be re-getting the whole thing
[10:09] <popey> given no two iso images are going to be much the same
[10:09] <AlanBell> well amd64+mac is 99.3% similar to amd64
[10:09] <gord> if something is added to the start and pushed further down, then that screws up all the blocks so you'll get almost everything
[10:09] <AlanBell> according to zsync
[10:09] <popey> AlanBell: measured how?
[10:09] <AlanBell> but zsync then fails
[10:10] <AlanBell> zsync http://releases.ubuntu.com/natty/ubuntu-11.04-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
[10:10] <AlanBell> try that
[10:11] <dragonkeeper> ok this looks messed up now o.O
[10:11] <popey> yeah, fails here too AlanBell
[10:12] <AlanBell> reads the zsync then fails to start the download?
[10:12] <AlanBell> I *think* it is because of the CDN redirect
[10:15] <dragonkeeper> this has the unity feel ;/
[10:17] <popey> AlanBell: debian bug 444159
[10:17] <popey> bug 661308
[10:17] <dragonkeeper> ok how do i uninstall unity completely ?
[10:18] <popey> AlanBell: fixed in zsync 0.6.2?
[10:18] <popey> i have 0.6.1 on my server
[10:18] <popey> and 0.6.1 in natty
[10:20] <AlanBell> I found the bytemark mirror
[10:21] <AlanBell> not broken there
[10:21] <AlanBell> so I am sorted, where do I report the problem?
[10:21] <popey> well, mirrors wont be doing 302
[10:21] <popey> there is already a bug for it bug 661308
[10:22] <popey> request an SRU for it?
[10:23] <AlanBell> fair enough, but how do I report that releases.ubuntu.com would be well advised not to do a 302?
[10:23] <popey> i disagree with that
[10:23] <AlanBell> or change the zsync files
[10:23] <AlanBell> the zsync files have a relative URL in them
[10:23] <popey> its a bug in zsync not the website
[10:23] <AlanBell> that could pont to a non-302 file
[10:23] <popey> heh, nice
[10:24] <popey> it could but then you're not going to be using the cdn
[10:24] <AlanBell> it is a bug in zsync, true enough
[10:24] <popey> and thus place more strain on the canonical servers
[10:24] <AlanBell> doesn't matter for zsync
[10:24] <popey> (I realise almost nobody uses zsync)
[10:24]  * AlanBell is indeed little more than a rounding error
[10:25] <popey> :)
[10:25] <popey> it will break testdrive though
[10:25] <popey> which uses zsync
[10:25] <popey> I'd try to get an sru for zsync
[10:28] <AlanBell> oh it is broken in natty too, certainly sru for that then
[10:28] <popey> and lts
[10:40] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:41] <AlanBell> ok, CD downloaded and burned, reboot time
[10:41] <AlanBell> see you in 64 bits o/
[10:41] <brobostigon> o/
[10:43] <dragonkeeper> ok i sorted gnome 3 out  just a slight graphical issue now
[10:44] <brobostigon> dragonkeeper: what is it?
[10:47] <dragonkeeper> dots at bottom of my main desktop where the notification bar is    icons dont show up properly in the  menu  and colour dots with black backgrounds behind sum text and buttons
[10:48] <brobostigon> dragonkeeper: i have seen that phenomina, its when simply the icons for certain things arent available, that explainwhy no icons but textshows up in the notiifications.
[10:49] <dragonkeeper> it does it with the activity menu button as well
[10:49] <dragonkeeper> now my main screen has just gone black ;/
[10:50] <brobostigon> dragonkeeper: do you mean where the desktop used to be?
[10:50] <AlanBell> Bug #774349
[10:50] <dragonkeeper> i mean  i have 2 monitors 1st monitors gone all black and i can talk to you on 2nd
[10:51] <dragonkeeper> all reboot see if i can get it back
[10:51] <brobostigon> dragonkeeper: ok, i have never tried gnome-shell with multi-monitors, so, umm, sorry.
[10:54] <AlanBell> Bug 754130
[10:56] <AlanBell> that is really annoying
[10:57] <brobostigon> :(
[10:57] <brobostigon> yes.
[10:59] <AlanBell> so the 32 bit iso works, the amd64 and amd64+mac isos don't work
[10:59] <AlanBell> (I thought at first it was because I picked the +mac one)
[11:00] <DragonKeeper> hmm now the taskbar at top has all lines through it o.O and the icons replaced by orange boxes
[11:00] <AlanBell> not sure what to do now :(
[11:01] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: there is no taskbar, atthe top.
[11:02] <DragonKeeper> well i have one :S
[11:02] <livingdaylight> running chrome first time in Unity. There is no menu bar at the top, like with some other apps, such as FF?
[11:02] <shauno> chrome doesn't use a menubar.  everything's done from the couple of icons top-right
[11:02] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: do you mean the bar,with the clock, and the logout etc menu, and the activities button?
[11:02] <DragonKeeper> yes
[11:03] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: yes, you confused me alittle with taskbar, as gnome-shell doesnt have a taskbar to listtasks inthe traditional way.
[11:04] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: can i suggest, k, so you are getting assentially graphical artifacts?
[11:04] <livingdaylight> shauno, true... just wondered; had thought I heard that chrome was doing something specific for ubuntu in mind. Must have been something else
[11:05] <livingdaylight> is chromium now the ruler of them all?
[11:06] <DragonKeeper> well atm the dots have cleared up and replaced by a gradient black shading   the icons show up as normal  its just the top bar thats having issues  its got green and purple lines with orange boxes where icons supposed to be and the activity button is only just readable through the amount of white dots on the button
[11:06] <livingdaylight> saveonlaptops.co.uk has some great deals
[11:07] <livingdaylight> The lenovo thinkpad edge 11-15 are beautiful, but don't come with a mic jack?
[11:07] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: i am just trying to think, who you could go and chatwith, who will know more.
[11:07] <DragonKeeper> laptops are just portable space heaters
[11:08] <shauno> boy do I love my spaceheater
[11:08] <DragonKeeper> lol i prefer my desktop  after like 30 mins with laptop on i could turn it over and fry an egg on the back
[11:09] <AlanBell> maybe an install of 10.10 64 bit then an upgrade to natty :(
[11:09] <livingdaylight> some heat less than others. I nearly bought an HP G62 yesterday until I felt the heat yesterdays at PCCurry's. So, back to the drawing board. Glad though, coz I discovered apart from eBuyer saveonlaptops.co.uk some great deals
[11:10] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: as its graphical errors, i was going to suggest having a chat with the ubuntu xorg  chaps.
[11:10] <livingdaylight> Looked at msi cr6200 yesterday - no heat - Acers seems pretty good too for no heat. As much as I love lenovo's they do emit a little, although not as much as some.
[11:10] <DragonKeeper> brobostigon  oki
[11:11] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: and they should be able to point you in a further right direction, and or help you.
[11:11] <livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, what have you got? I had a lenovo R60e I could cook with. It got worse with time. I think Ubuntu on it didn't help
[11:12] <shauno> mine doesn't tend to warm up too much unless I'm playing games or rendering video (or running natty)
[11:12] <livingdaylight> is there much if anyting in it between a dual-core and an entry level i3 processor?
[11:12] <DragonKeeper> livingdaylight i have a old easynote r005  laptop with debian 6  and a custom built desktop with 6 cores with ubuntu 11.04
[11:13] <livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, I'll avoid the easynote then ^^
[11:13] <DragonKeeper> i cant wait for the htc sensation release
[11:13] <DragonKeeper> i want that phone :)
[11:14] <livingdaylight> shauno is it because these laptops are not truly designed with Linux in mind? I@m pretty sure Ubuntu ruined my laptop
[11:15]  * DragonKeeper has never had an o/s ruin a computer (installed different o/s's on 100s pcs)
[11:16] <livingdaylight> lenovo ideapad U450 for £300 has got to be a good deal - http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Lenovo_IdeaPad_U450_679711.html
[11:16] <livingdaylight> just not sure on the dual-core vs i3 processor question
[11:18] <DragonKeeper> i prefer amd. i like to buy a computer with out having to take out a mortgage
[11:18] <livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, not directly, but if one os heats a laptop up more than another, presumably it could be attributed to doing so indirectly. The more (constant) heat the sooner the cpu is going to fry or fan as in my case will go.
[11:19] <gord> i3 is a better choice htz for htz over a dual core
[11:19] <DragonKeeper> if you have good cooling then im sure it wouldnt matter, tho laptops dont really provide that
[11:20] <gord> i keep buying passively cooled stuff for my portables, its nice
[11:20] <livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, note its specifically laptops i was referring to.
[11:20] <DragonKeeper> lol everytime i log out of gnome 3 and log bk in something changes with the graphic problem
[11:20] <AlanBell> i3 is dual core hyperthreaded, shows as 4 CPUs in the operating system
[11:20] <gord> most dual cores are hyperthreaded too, will show 4 cpus
[11:21] <livingdaylight> AlanBell, that's what I'm wondering - what's the difference then?
[11:21] <DragonKeeper> gord   4 cores*
[11:21] <gord> no
[11:21] <gord> dual core
[11:21] <DragonKeeper> yeah but will show 4 cores not 4 cpus
[11:21] <gord> hyperthreading basically pretends to be four cores when you really have 2 (or eight cores if you have four)
[11:22] <livingdaylight> coz there are real deals out there on dual-cores given that i3's, i5's and i7's are now cutting edge.
[11:22] <gord> ... your software really does not care if they are cores or cpus
[11:23] <AlanBell> livingdaylight: http://votegeek.org.uk/
[11:23] <DragonKeeper> gord my point was it shows cores not cpus  if im not mistaken 2 cpus is the max for 1 motherboard
[11:23] <livingdaylight> apart from gaming is there anything we use now adays that requires all this 'moar' powah than what used to serve us fine back when we used celerons and semprons
[11:23] <AlanBell> core i7 fills the triangle in about 5 seconds
[11:23] <gord> DragonKeeper, your software does not care if they are cores or cpus, it does not make any distinction
[11:23] <gord> the kernel reports them as processors
[11:23] <AlanBell> livingdaylight: not now that we rejected AV ;)
[11:24] <DragonKeeper> grr gnome 3 crashed
[11:24] <gord> livingdaylight, getting more done in a shorter time, rendering websites and such. its not about sustained raw power, its about snappyness and efficiency
[11:25] <livingdaylight> the rejection of AV proves that one can't leave important decisions to the masses.
[11:27] <AlanBell> sometimes a self appointed benevolent dictator for life sounds like a reasonable system of governance
[11:28] <dutchie> back to absolute monarchy
[11:28] <AlanBell> but that would be *really* dull to do maths about
[11:28] <AlanBell> right, lets see if Maverick 64bit boots and installs . . .
[11:28] <dutchie> heh
[11:28] <dutchie> AlanBell: btw, http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/triangles.png 404s
[11:28] <dutchie> it is linked from your 3-way swingometers
[11:29] <AlanBell> hmm, ok
[11:29] <dutchie> which currently do a sterling job of crashing the chrome tab
[11:29] <AlanBell> probably /votegeek/triangles.png
[11:29] <dutchie> yeah, that works
[11:29] <gord> mark for king?
[11:36] <Gothfunc> i was using ubuntu studio karmic until recently.  i was using oss, but i'm guessing it wasn't true oss, but emulated?
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> Gothfunc: most likely, yes
[11:37] <Gothfunc> MartijnVdS, and i assume that's done with alsa-oss?
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> Gothfunc: no idea, haven't used oss in a ges
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> ages
[11:37] <Gothfunc> hm, ok thanks
[11:39] <Gothfunc> updated to meerkat using just alsa and the dj software i'm using has started to go too slow to use, but no devices are showing up on oss, and alsa-oss is installed
[11:40] <Gothfunc> not started to go slow, it just was instantly
[11:40] <AlanBell> fun, boot a maverick live CD and it asks if you want to upgrade it to Natty
[11:40] <AlanBell> past the point of no return now
[11:40] <Gothfunc> i'm just guessing it's ultramixer's flakey alsa support
[11:40] <DragonKeeper> brobostigon  seems to be a driver issue when i turn off fglrx drivers it looks fine but the res isnt to my liking and a cant play games ;/
[11:41] <Gothfunc> does anyone know how i can begin to diagnose why ultramixer can't see any devices via alsa-oss?
[11:41] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: ah, interesting, atleast you know now.
[11:41] <Gothfunc> (it could before)
[11:42] <DragonKeeper> brobostigon yup but now need know how to fix it so can run both my screens ad play games with gnome3 and the fglrx driver
[11:42] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: on that front i have no clue, at all.
[11:43] <DragonKeeper> ok ill ask in a different channel
[11:43] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: i would start by asking the xorg chaps.
[11:43] <DragonKeeper> noone answering over there
[11:44] <brobostigon> DragonKeeper: they will answer, be patient, i have had to be patient there many a time.
[12:00]  * dutchie files bug 778983
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> *\o/* dutchie
[12:05] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:09] <AlanBell> upgrade has started, hope this works
[12:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: see now yer jinxed
[12:13] <AlanBell> deb files are downloading and being cached (in case I need to go round and do it again)
[12:56] <kvarley> How can I play youtube videos from within Banshee Media Player?
[12:58] <kvarley> Nevermind, had to enable it in the preferences and then show the context pane
[13:16] <safiyyah> hi guys I have a basic question. I have added arabic as one of my keyboard languages, so now there are two. There is a thingi that goes on the panel that lets you easily switch between the two layouts, but it isn't coming up when I click add to panel
[13:16]  * MartijnVdS points in the general direction of HazRPG
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> safiyyah: HazRPG is our local Arabic expert :)
[13:18] <safiyyah> it is called Keyboard indicator
[13:18] <safiyyah> he is away
[13:18] <safiyyah> ohhhh!
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> safiyyah: If you have two keyboard layouts defined, it should pop up when you click it
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> safiyyah: do the other indicator menus pop up when you click them?
[13:19] <safiyyah> it does, but it comes up within the notification area
[13:19] <safiyyah> I wanted it as part of the panel
[13:19] <safiyyah> that was how I had it previously
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> that's not possible anymore
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> I think
[13:19] <safiyyah> but keyboard indicator is no longer on Lucid
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> safiyyah: If you set more than one keyboard layout, an icon will appear next to the clock to change layouts
[13:20] <safiyyah> okay
[13:20] <safiyyah> thanx
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> Or you can set a special modifier to change using a keystroke.
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> (in the "Options" section/subdialog of the keyboard settings)
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> ("Keys to change layout")
[13:25] <safiyyah> MartinjnVdS thank you
[13:40] <damian> ali1234: Seems that the flash problem is only affecting Firefox, using rekonq this morning so problems what so ever!  I left kde downloading/installing overnight
[13:43] <AlanBell> yay, I have natty 64 bit installed
[13:43] <brobostigon> :)
[13:43] <brobostigon> yay
[13:50] <popey> AlanBell: yay
[13:53] <AlanBell> alt+prtscr works now
[13:59] <damian> Excellent!
[14:24] <czajkowski> hmm i want rice crispy buns
[14:33] <damian> Id rather someone refill my coffee
[15:47] <AlanBell> interesting https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=208
[15:49] <NRWlion> hello from germany ;)
[15:49] <brobostigon> moin NRWlion :)
[15:50] <gord> Hello from Hungary!
[15:50] <NRWlion> hey folks looking for s-fox
[16:09] <AlanBell> 66GB VBox.log files ftl
[16:10] <popey> heh
[16:12] <Azelphur> popey: did you see the askubuntu question got an answer?
[16:55] <brobostigon> is it possibleto block one specific friend i have on facebook from IM'ing me?
[16:56] <zleap> not sure
[16:56] <brobostigon> i could do it directlyin empathy, but that doesnt solve the issue.
[17:00] <AlanBell> might as well unfriend them
[17:00] <AlanBell> because that is what will happen when they find out you blocked them :)
[17:01] <brobostigon> good point AlanBell
[17:04] <zleap> is there a reason you want to block, other than these ims
[17:04] <brobostigon> no.
[17:04] <kvarley> Which text encoding system does Ubuntu use? Ascii or Unicode?
[17:04] <kvarley> Or another?
[17:04] <AlanBell> unicode mostly
[17:04] <ali1234> utf-8
[17:05] <kvarley> utf-8 = ?
[17:05] <kvarley> That's just unicode still?
[17:05] <AlanBell> basically
[17:05] <kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks :) just geeking up for my Computing exam
[17:05] <ali1234> it's way of encoding unicode with which ascii is forwards compatible
[17:06] <kvarley> ali1234: Interesting
[17:06] <AlanBell> so for ascii characters you get 1 8 bit byte per character still
[17:07] <kvarley> AlanBell: That's some nice compatibility then! In Ascii the characters have a numeric code - e.g. 65 = A, do you know whether Unicode takes this approach or not?
[17:08] <AlanBell> yes, but bigger numbers
[17:08] <AlanBell> or it can include bigger numbers
[17:09] <AlanBell> !unicode
[17:10] <AlanBell> ሴ
[17:10] <kvarley> AlanBell: Thank you, I shall stop pestering you now hehe
[17:10] <AlanBell> ctrl+shift+U 1234 made that character
[17:10] <AlanBell> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1234/index.htm
[17:11] <kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks for the help :)
[17:11] <ali1234> ᾩ
[17:11] <AlanBell> suspend and resume is working well for me in Natty
[17:12] <AlanBell> I can shut the lid and it just works, restores and reconnects ssh sessions and keeps playing last.fm music
[17:12] <kvarley> AlanBell: :)
[17:12] <AlanBell> close and go, just like having a macbook
[17:12] <kvarley> AlanBell: Except it's better because it's Linux :P
[17:13] <ali1234> if it keeps playing music it isn't suspending
[17:13] <AlanBell> ali1234: it resumes playing the song it was playing when it was suspended
[17:14] <NRWlion> cu guys
[17:15] <ali1234> so it turns out that getting rid of resize grips is actually really really easy
[17:16] <kvarley> ali1234: Are you talking about the annoying little square in the bottom right of the window which doesn't match the UI at all?
[17:16] <ali1234> yes
[17:16] <ali1234> so now i just have to figure out how to make the launcher not annoying
[17:17] <livingdaylight> I can't seem to right click xchat panel to send it to another workspace?
[17:17] <kvarley> livingdaylight: Make sure the window isn't maximized then try
[17:18] <livingdaylight> kvarley, just discovered that! how weird!
[17:18] <kvarley> ali1234: That's the only feature which annoys me, it's cool that it's there but it just doesn't match the UI
[17:18] <kvarley> livingdaylight: I had the same problem, most likely it's something they'll fix :)
[17:18] <ali1234> i use human theme
[17:18] <ali1234> so none of the new stuff matches it
[17:18] <livingdaylight> also noticed that when I un-max it the window peels off the top panel but is still maxed out otherwise for all intent and purposes and spills off the screen into other workspaces
[17:19] <kvarley> Does anybody know when I un-maximize a window why the menu bar (that contains File, Edit, Tools, etc) doesn't join up with the window? It's really irritating having to select the window and go to the top everytime
[17:20] <livingdaylight> I actually came in to ask about video rendering. Downloaded a couple movies and they play fine off other laptops, with 11.04 on this desktop the colors are all weird?? black is pink and stuff like that.
[17:21] <livingdaylight> when I play the movie in the examples folder it is fine, just the stuff I've downloaded.
[17:22] <livingdaylight> at first thought I downloaded something corrupted, but then I tested something else out which I know played perfectly when I transferred it to a laptop, but also plays wonky on thid Desktop.
[17:23] <czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/4umnhe nyommy
[17:24] <kvarley> livingdaylight: What media player are you using to play it?
[17:25] <livingdaylight> kvarley, tried both... first the default player then installed vlc - same result
[17:25] <kvarley> Anybody know why I have a blue triangle in the top left of my screen on the Ubuntu button?
[17:25] <livingdaylight> at first i thought the problem could be coz file was .mkv and installed vlc
[17:25] <kvarley> livingdaylight: Weird, have you checked your gfx drivers config panel to see if the hue/saturation, etc aren't changes
[17:26] <livingdaylight> kvarley, you have won a price! there are only a couple triangles like that!
[17:26] <kvarley> livingdaylight: hehe I wish
[17:26] <livingdaylight> kvarley, no, I didn't.
[17:27] <kvarley> livingdaylight: Although it's weird that the colours on other videos are fine for you :/
[17:27] <livingdaylight> kvarley, exactly
[17:27] <kvarley> czajkowski: Jealous, they look tasty
[17:30] <kvarley> Right as I go to upload the picture of the triangle it disappears =/
[20:23] <shauno> pirates \o/
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> Arr!
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> shauno: (ssh! no spoilers)
[20:28] <shauno> that's not a spoiler :)
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> shauno: no, but it might start of a discussion :)
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> off
[20:30] <shauno> arr.
[20:32] <shauno> still not sold.  no-one ever has sensible conversations about pirates :)
[20:33] <hamitron> pirating is wrong ;)
[20:33]  * MartijnVdS buys Rickie Lee Jones - Pirates from U1MS
[20:33] <hamitron> sometimes
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> (really!)
[20:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#Pirates_and_global_warming
[20:39] <hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer:
[20:39] <hamitron> :)
[20:39] <hamitron> there probably is a trend tbh
[20:39] <hamitron> :s
[21:47] <Azelphur> popey: I think it was you the other day that mentioned a variant of top for networking?
[21:47] <Azelphur> so I can see what processes are using how much bandwith :P
[21:48] <hamitron> ntop?
[21:53] <Azelphur> hamitron: seems to want a webserver? XD
[21:55] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm?
[21:55] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Someone had an arabic problem?
[21:57] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh nevermind, they've gone offline...
[21:58] <HazRPG> hamitron: there's an ntop?
[21:58] <HazRPG> hamitron: I've been using "mon" this whole time
[21:59] <HazRPG> or is it nmon
[22:03] <HazRPG> Azelphur: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/top-linux-monitoring-tools.html
[22:04] <Azelphur> fun
[22:07] <jibadeeha> HazRPG, nice link
[22:10] <HazRPG> jibadeeha: useful stuff though right :)
[22:10] <HazRPG> Azelphur: I have a feeling iptraf is what your after really from that list
[22:11] <jibadeeha> HazRPG, i discovered iftop the other day - another good one
[22:11] <HazRPG> jibadeeha: nice :)
[22:11] <jibadeeha> iotop is also good - helped me on a few occassions
[22:11] <Azelphur> HazRPG: yea, it looks good :D
[22:12] <jibadeeha> HazRPG, very useful list .. some i have not heard of
[22:12] <HazRPG> indeed, some of the are already pre-installed and used by most scripts
[22:13] <HazRPG> ps and grep always go hand-in-hand
[22:13] <HazRPG> esp. when you pipe them out ;)
[22:21] <Snomi> hi
[22:21] <Snomi> For some reason my internet connection is half as fast on ubuntu as on windows
[22:21] <Snomi> downloading
[22:22] <Snomi> I assume this is something to do with the wireless card
[22:22] <Snomi> I am running an acer 7736g laptop
[22:27] <HazRPG> Snomi: not sure about that, I find my internet is faster in ubuntu then windows
[22:29] <popey> Azelphur: iftop
[22:30] <Snomi> HazRPG: hmm
[22:30] <Snomi> I'm not really sure what to do
[22:31] <Snomi> .np
[22:31] <Snomi> oops
[22:32] <HazRPG> I love the fact that I can now scan again ;D
[22:33] <HazRPG> without having to make a stupidly long cable to connect the printer with ;D
[22:33] <HazRPG> \o/ for sane
[22:35] <AlanBell> Snomi: I saw someone else with a similar issue asked a question on askubuntu.com
[22:35] <Snomi> AlanBell: hmm
[22:36] <Snomi> I get 800kbps on windows, and about 300 on ubuntu
[22:37] <AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/39631/wifi-too-slow-with-an-atheros-ar928x
[22:37] <HazRPG> and I just got rid of the squeak in my chair \o/ - thank you WD40!
[22:37] <HazRPG> must be a driver fault then
[22:38] <AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/37409/why-is-my-internet-so-slow-with-an-atheros-wireless-card
[22:38] <AlanBell> Snomi: ^^
[22:38] <AlanBell> probably do that if you have an atheros card
[22:38] <Snomi> also I quit out of my 11.04 install half way and I get an error logging into any old vers.
[22:38] <Snomi> it says it cant mount /
[22:39] <Snomi> even the 'safe modes'
[22:40] <MattJ> Azelphur: how many monitors do you have nowadays?
[22:41] <popey> a Miiiiiiiilion
[22:41] <MattJ> I was waiting for "over 9000"
[22:43] <Azelphur> MattJ: connected to 1 PC?
[22:43] <Azelphur> or can I count everything in my house :p
[22:43] <HazRPG> ... erm, this site is random: http://newsmap.jp/
[22:44] <MattJ> Azelphur: at your workstation, however many PCs you have :)
[22:44] <Azelphur> 4 active, soon 5
[22:45] <Azelphur> when nvidia gets into gear and enables xrandr proper multi monitor support, 7
[22:46] <Azelphur> when it's sorted I'll buy another 2 monitors so I can have a tri screen gaming setup while still maintaining my dual screen IRC setup at the same time :P
[22:52] <andres_kain> Hi, I installed 10.10 unr on a friend's netbook. Until when will she have support and will the update manager force her to upgrade
[22:52] <andres_kain> ?
[22:53] <Azelphur> the upgrade manager will never force her to upgrade
[22:53] <andres_kain> OK thanks! that was my main worry.
[22:54] <Azelphur> andres_kain: however, you will only get security updates for 2 years I think
[22:54] <MattJ> Azelphur: it's just that this picture always reminds me of you: http://awesome.naquadah.org/images/6mon.medium.png
[22:54] <Azelphur> so when 12.10 comes out it's probably time to upgrade.
[22:54] <Azelphur> MattJ: that's the screenshot on the front page of awesomewm :D
[22:54] <Azelphur> it's a nice setup.
[22:54] <MattJ> Yes :)
[22:54] <HazRPG> woot \o/ http://hazrpg.deviantart.com/art/Happy-Puff-Ball-207960432
[22:55] <Azelphur> MattJ: I get tempted to switch to awesome, I may well do when nvidia fixes itself up
[22:55] <andres_kain> Thanks Azelphur!
[22:55] <Azelphur> Compiz isn't very multi monitor happy
[22:55] <Azelphur> andres_kain: welcome :)
[22:56] <Azelphur> andres_kain: why the reluctance to upgrade, though?
[22:56] <HazRPG> I must say, the scanner seems to work so much better under sane then it ever did with the windows epson software
[22:56] <andres_kain> well I'm always told to wait 3 months or so for next upgrade
[22:56] <Azelphur> why? o.O
[22:56] <AlanBell> I have one of the samsung monitors in that rig
[22:56] <Azelphur> where's your sense of adventure, I updated my main machine 3 months before natty came out :D
[22:57] <andres_kain> she is not very good with computers so I'll have to show her how to do a back up. ... but I guess I can simply tell her to just copy files.
[22:57] <Azelphur> yea, copy paste is easiest
[22:57] <HazRPG> Azelphur: you brave soul lol
[22:57] <Azelphur> HazRPG: that's nothing, I continually buy hardware with no Linux drivers.
[22:57] <andres_kain> and I'm in a different country so can't give much support.
[22:57] <HazRPG> Azelphur: I don't update mine straight away for the simple fact that I use mine for both pleasure and work
[22:57] <Azelphur> HazRPG: totally me in this comic, http://xkcd.com/644/ :D
[22:58] <Azelphur> andres_kain: a clever trick that requires very minimal work is to install the OS on a separate partition to /home
[22:58] <Azelphur> andres_kain: that way if the OS ever breaks, you can reload it without loosing your documents or application configuration.
[22:59] <HazRPG> Azelphur: heh I use to do that :P
[22:59] <Azelphur> I still do :)
[22:59] <hamitron> haha Azelphur
[22:59] <andres_kain> Yes, I keep reading about that... somewhere but never got around to do it myself.
[22:59] <Azelphur> I have / on an SSD and /home on a 1TB hdd :)
[22:59] <HazRPG> Azelphur: I remember when I'd upgrade while the daily builds or alphas were being pumped out :P
[22:59]  * hamitron is the total oppersite
[22:59] <hamitron> opersite
[22:59] <Azelphur> hamitron: I know, you still run off a P1
[22:59] <HazRPG> Azelphur: but that's just because I wasn't too worried about it breaking
[22:59] <Azelphur> hamitron: opposite :p
[22:59] <hamitron> ty
[23:00] <hamitron> tired
[23:00] <hamitron> :/
[23:00] <Azelphur> HazRPG: same, I've got piles of machines here if one breaks I just use the other one until I fix the busted one xD
[23:01] <Azelphur> also, I finished assembling my radiator
[23:02] <HazRPG> Azelphur: also, I buy broken hardware too xD
[23:02] <hamitron> it should be underfloor heating
[23:02] <hamitron> ;/
[23:02] <Azelphur> HazRPG: I used to do that when I didn't have much money :D
[23:02] <HazRPG> Azelphur: my printer/scanner only just started working properly in linux over the last year, I've had it like 2-3 years now xD
[23:02] <Azelphur> HazRPG: got a really nice computer for a tenner at a boot sale once, turned out it just had a misconfigured bios.
[23:03] <HazRPG> Azelphur: hah nice
[23:04] <andres_kain> Azelphur, she has a netbook with Hdd but a sdd slot for an sd card. Do you think she could have \home in ther hdd and the rest on the sd? or too far fetched?
[23:05] <Azelphur> andres_kain: entirely possible, but I wouldn't recommend it, SD cards die after a certain amount of read/writes, and that usually flies by rather quickly with a desktop OS on there
[23:05] <Azelphur> (been there done that, it died in a month)
[23:05] <Azelphur> (twice, although they was both cheap chinese generic brand cards)
[23:05] <ali1234> sd cards are also damn slow
[23:06] <Azelphur> that too.
[23:06] <andres_kain> pity, I hat the same netbook and I would install it in mine and simply mail her the sd card.
[23:06] <andres_kain> though my model is an sdd netbook. might be a bit different anyway.
[23:07] <Azelphur> andres_kain: should be relatively easy to talk her through, I've talked a fair through rookies through the install myself
[23:07] <Azelphur> just make sure she backs up before doing it, then you can't really go wrong
[23:07] <hamitron> you could have teh OS on teh SD card, loading into the memory
[23:08] <Azelphur> hamitron: not with Ubuntu on a netbook you couldn't
[23:08] <andres_kain> yes I  guess. she was OK with installing spotify through wine so installing should be easier.
[23:08] <hamitron> prob not full ubuntu, no
[23:08] <Azelphur> yea :)
[23:08] <hamitron> would need 2gb ram
[23:08] <Azelphur> in other news, cooling this is how you do it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110507_225957.jpg :p
[23:09] <hamitron> the grid
[23:09] <hamitron> :)
[23:09] <andres_kain> how much different is dropbox from ubuntuone btw?
[23:09] <hamitron> nice cushion btw
[23:09] <hamitron> ;/
[23:09] <Azelphur> hamitron: I think what your looking at is a rug xD
[23:09] <hamitron> oh
[23:10] <hamitron> :)
[23:10] <Azelphur> andres_kain: not a lot, they pretty much do the same
[23:11] <andres_kain> I was goint to instal beta ubuntu on winxp but quit on having to install net 4.0
[23:15] <andres_kain> wooo!!! I just got firefox 4.0.1 on ubuntu netbook LTS! I thought it was never going to happen!
[23:15] <andres_kain> I'm one happy bunny
[23:17] <andres_kain> If I don't have anything to save... can I just go for a shutdown or is that malpractice? I know windows is bound to crash on closing...
[23:18] <penguin42> huh? Of course you can just shutdown
[23:18] <Azelphur> andres_kain: by shutdown you mean clicking the shutdown button?
[23:18] <Azelphur> or do you mean holding the power button
[23:18] <penguin42> Azelphur: Good point
[23:18] <andres_kain> clicking
[23:19] <Azelphur> andres_kain: clicking the shutdown button is always ok, regardless of operating system
[23:19] <Azelphur> and is recommended on all of them
[23:20] <andres_kain> well. my work xp machine at work begs to differ... If I have outlook on I will run into problems for example. and If it's running a backup it will be worst.
[23:20] <andres_kain> though I'll go to your recomendation of shutting down my work pc more often.
[23:21] <penguin42> andres_kain: Backups can be a bit special
[23:21] <AlanBell> Azelphur: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-dx-o-unity-bigscreen-productivity/
[23:22] <Azelphur> AlanBell: just hangs at loading for me
[23:25] <AlanBell> oh the pad, don't worry about that there is nothing in it yet
[23:25] <AlanBell> refresh and it should work
[23:25] <AlanBell> that is a tuesday AM session
[23:25] <AlanBell> on unity on big monitors
[23:25] <penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm will that also include things like multihead?
[23:26] <AlanBell> probably
[23:27] <andres_kain> are you guys serious about using 7 screens on one pc?
[23:27] <andres_kain> one user?
[23:28] <penguin42> that would be nice; I think I've seen pictures of 6 being done
[23:29] <JGJones> having a lot of screens is always essential when you're an evil "take over the world" mastermind.
[23:30] <shauno> or a flightsim nut
[23:30] <JGJones> there's a difference?
[23:30] <andres_kain> or on stock exchange
[23:30] <andres_kain> same thing as well
[23:30] <andres_kain> XD
[23:30] <andres_kain> guys who work on energy companies also use at least 4.
[23:31] <shauno> that said, it used to be normal to see sim nuts with far, far too many screens - I'd think a small handful of mid-sized TVs would be just as good now (and a lot cheaper)
[23:31] <andres_kain> batman also uses loads of screens...
[23:32] <JGJones> Penguin say that Batman is evil.
[23:33] <JGJones> and Penguin is good. Otherwise it wouldn't be the mascot for Linux ;-)
[23:54] <penguin42> http://www.quadvision.co.uk  seem to do lots of multihead stuff - and multi-lcd mounts - they've got wonderful case studies like: http://www.quadvision.co.uk/case-studies/teleperformance.html