[00:01] <peitschie> jelmer: thats what I was fearing would be the case... it seemed like a very complex solution to solve!
[00:02] <peitschie> jelmer: do you have a goal timeframe in mind (e.g., days/weeks/months/years?)
[00:03] <poolie> jelmer: i'd be interested in your review of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mbp/bzr/deprecation/+merge/38647 if you get a chance
[00:04] <peitschie> jelmer: i'm interested primarily to see which direction "the majority" of our devs end up going.  A battle-hardened few find the "new" way of working more straightforward and easier than svn branches still, but a lot of the devs are a little on the fence not being so comfortable away from the tortiseXXX guis
[00:06] <poolie> spiv will be away sick today, in case anyone was hoping to talk to him
[00:08] <jelmer> peitschie: It really depends on how we decide to fix it. My guess it will be weeks at least.
[00:08] <jelmer> poolie: Sure, I'll have a look.
[00:09] <poolie> tell me if you think it's actually cleaner
[00:11] <peitschie> jelmer: ok.  it is understandable :).  we'll limp along and keep waiting then!
[00:30] <jelmer> hmm, I think I might also have fixed the hdb_asn1.h issue
[00:30]  * jelmer gets bit by his middle mouse button again
[00:33] <mgz> will the universe hate me if I change the duplicates of some AttributeError bugs are for the third time...
[00:33] <mgz> +grammar
[00:34] <mgz> in my defense, this was very confusing.
[00:35] <jelmer> mgz: I think we'll be ok :-)
[00:54] <jelmer> poolie: I've followed up to your MP.
[00:56] <mgz> wait, am I even more of a total idiot?
[00:56] <lifeless> yes
[00:56] <mgz> poolie's mp is exactly the same thing?
[00:56] <lifeless> no, wait, whats the question
[00:56] <mgz> but done properly?
[00:57]  * mgz branches it too see if it incidentally fixes the same bug
[00:59] <mgz> didn't even register it was about smart_add as well, thought it'd just be... deprecating some things
[01:00] <mgz> phew. still fails. my change may not merge now, but at least it wasn't completely pointless.
[01:02] <mgz> bed before I get myself in any more of a tizz.
[01:07] <poolie> mgz, seriously?
[01:07] <poolie> mgz, it was part of a saga towards fixing all the add bugs (and introducing shiny new ones :-) but it doesn't specifically fix anything
[01:07] <poolie> except by pure luck
[01:07] <poolie> thanks jelmer
[01:16] <adamdv> I'm using bzr+ssh, and am attempting to use it on windows. Only, the ssh server uses public key authentication. How can I get bzr to recognize a public key to login to the server with?
[01:37] <poolie> AdamDV: see http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/Bzr_and_SSH
[01:39] <poolie> and if that's incomplete/unclear, please ask
[01:39] <AdamDV> Nope, makes sense.
[01:40] <AdamDV> bzr always amazes me at the simplicity :)
[01:40] <poolie> we should move/copy that to the user manual
[01:40] <poolie> :)
[01:44] <AdamDV> You should :)
[02:11] <poolie> AdamDV: bug 662448
[02:11] <poolie> you could do it if you want :)
[02:12] <AdamDV> How do I edit the docs?
[02:12] <poolie> there's a document about that too :) ...
[02:12] <poolie> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/developers/contribution-quickstart.html
[02:12] <poolie> and http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/ContributingToTheDocs
[02:13] <AdamDV> Will do :)
[02:13] <poolie>  the best documenters are those who've just worked out how to do the thing they're describing
[02:13] <poolie> they're not so prone to assuming things are obvious
[02:14] <AdamDV> Mhm :)
[02:15] <AdamDV> So, let me get this straight
[02:16] <AdamDV> I have to use bzr to checkout the bzr documentation?
[02:16] <AdamDV> and fix it, and then recommit the bzr doc with bzr?
[02:16] <AdamDV> Irony..
[02:20] <AdamDV> poolie: Okay, so how do I start? I have never used launchpad before :P
[02:21] <poolie> hm, so you need an account?
[02:21] <poolie> https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/NewAccount
[02:22] <AdamDV> REgistered
[02:22] <AdamDV> And I've assigned it to me
[02:22] <poolie> ok so
[02:22] <poolie> bzr init-repo ~/bzr
[02:22] <AdamDV> (I've used launchpad before, never actually helped with anythnig)
[02:22] <poolie> oh ok
[02:22] <AdamDV> alright, ran that
[02:22] <poolie> actually the quickstart guide should tell you how to make a branch...
[02:24] <AdamDV> reading..
[02:31] <AdamDV> Lotsa code to check out..
[02:37] <AdamDV> poolie: Shall I put this new documentation in user-guide?
[02:43] <poolie> that'd be good
[02:45] <MeaCulpa> Hi! I have trouble using bzr windows stand-alone binary on ssh inplemention... bzr keeps looking for /home/%CURRENTUSER%/.bzr directory, which is useless in Windows
[02:46] <MeaCulpa> I need bzr to look after %DOCUMENTROOT%\%CURRENTUSER%\.ssh
[02:47] <MeaCulpa> Perhaps there is some messing on ssh? I have putty with pegeant, my non-ssh branch works okay
[02:48] <poolie> MeaCulpa: it's looking for the ssh key in .bzR?
[02:48] <poolie> .bzr
[02:48] <poolie> adam was just updating the docs about that
[02:48] <MeaCulpa> I've been using bzr for years, but only the python version, My desktop have py2.7 now so I wanna try bzr standalone
[02:49] <MeaCulpa> I guess pure python ssh is long-time okay
[02:49] <MeaCulpa> poolie: it is looking on .ssh under /home/user thing, tis unix style
[02:50] <poolie> oh, i see
[02:50] <poolie> that is odd
[02:51] <MeaCulpa> maybe it is because my windows is messed up with opensource tools... :(
[02:51] <poolie> we're using os.path.expanduser
[02:52] <MeaCulpa> poolie: then this shall not be a problem... strange
[02:52] <poolie> MeaCulpa: what are %HOME% and %USERPROFILE% set to?
[02:52] <poolie> maybe the unix tools changed them
[02:52] <MeaCulpa> userprofile is set under documentroot/user
[02:52] <MeaCulpa> and I don't have %HOME%
[02:53] <MeaCulpa> maybe... there are many cygwin hacks hidden somewhere in my tools
[02:53]  * MeaCulpa hate cygwin
[02:56] <adamdv> poolie: Should I use rest format when writing doc?
[02:56] <adamdv> Or can I just format it as a txt file?
[02:56] <poolie> adamdv: ideally, rest
[02:57] <poolie> but plain txt is pretty close
[02:57] <adamdv> Alright.
[02:57] <adamdv> I can use rest, I think.
[02:57] <poolie> we can fix any markup bugs
[02:57] <adamdv> Its going to be alot like the web equivelent, but I'll throw in a few tidbits from my personal bzr+ssh experience :P
[03:17] <MeaCulpa> poolie: hand-tuned bzr from source proved to be well-isolated and safely pythonic in my windows box, thank you for your concern!
[03:19] <adamdv> poolie: Alright, I checked out, locally copied, added the file and wrote it, locally committed, and now am attempting to 'bzr push'
[03:20] <adamdv> I get: bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/adam/bzr/.bzr/branch/": location is a repository.
[03:22] <poolie> what command?
[03:24] <adamdv> bzr push
[03:25] <poolie> adamdv: i think you need to cd into the branch directory
[03:25] <poolie> and probably also specify a location on lp to push ot
[03:26] <adamdv> according to the quickContribGuide, bzr push will work
[03:26] <poolie> like 'bzr push lp:~adamdv/bzr/662448-ssh-docs'
[03:27] <adamdv> :|
[03:27] <adamdv> Gotta register my ssh keys
[03:29] <adamdv> pushing..
[03:29] <adamdv> Done. So, uhh, now what?
[03:32] <adamdv> I'm guessing my change has to be approved?
[03:52] <poolie> AdamDV: normally you'd click then 'propose for merging' or type 'lp propose-merge'
[03:52] <AdamDV> Clicking.
[03:53] <AdamDV> Merge proposed :)
[03:54] <AdamDV> https://code.launchpad.net/~adam-delvecchio/bzr/662448-sshkey-doc/+merge/38682 (I believe thats the link?)
[04:04]  * poolie looks
[04:11]  * adamdv crosses fingers
[04:14] <poolie> i'm reading it now
[04:15] <adamdv> k
[04:16] <poolie> ok, replied
[04:16] <poolie> let's see what maritza says too
[04:22] <AdamDV2> Internet sucks at my house :/
[04:34] <AdamDV2> poolie: I'm going to fix it, and probably make it more easily readable as well.
[04:34] <poolie> thanks
[05:17] <cody-somerville> lol, bzr-stats's --show-class argument sure makes bzr stats have an appetite for memory, lol; its at over 1.5G and isn't even done with the first contributor yet
[07:30] <vila> hi all !
[07:31] <peitschie> hi vila :)
[09:42] <poolie> hi there vila
[09:42] <vila> poolie: hey !
[09:42] <poolie> cody-somerville: ouch; on what tree?
[10:01] <jelmer> moinmoin
[10:01] <vila> jelmer: \o_
[10:20] <vila> poolie: you're at UDS with jam next week right ?
[10:20] <poolie> correct
[10:21] <vila> poolie: so maybe one of you should switch with spiv as PP this week ?
[10:22] <jelmer_> thumper: The problem with the mesa branch appears to be caused by the fact that it's still in the 1.9 format rather than 2a.
[10:38] <thumper> jelmer_: I had the 1.9 one blown away though
[10:38] <thumper> jelmer_: the one that is importing is 2a
[10:38] <thumper> at least I thought as much
[10:39] <thumper> I'll get spm to check tomorrow
[10:39] <jelmer_> thumper: The web page claims it's 1.9
[10:39] <thumper> jelmer_: that is because the branch won't get mirrored until it is fully imported
[10:39]  * thumper afk
[10:39] <jelmer_> thumper: ah, ok :-(
[10:40] <poolie> good idea; maybe i will because spiv was sick today
[10:40] <poolie> on phone
[10:58] <vila> mgz: could you send an mp with your hack_transport branch cleaned if needed (but really if needed) waiting for the hook one to get fully discussed ?
[10:59] <vila> mgz: it's a shame to still get leak related failures and block the osx slave when we fully understand the cause and have a available fix even if it's not perfect
[10:59] <vila> mgz: *AND* a better one worked on...
[11:09] <ibxth> hello, sorry for my english, how can i export only diff files between two revision?
[11:10] <fax8> hi there, just installed bzr on 8.04 from https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa .. but I got bzr 2.2 .. shouldn't it be 2.1?
[11:12] <GaryvdM> ibxth: bzr diff -r x..y
[11:13] <GaryvdM> fax8: No -  2.2 is now the stable release
[11:15] <ibxth> GaryvdM, it give me a difference between revision. i need the files that have changed
[11:16] <GaryvdM> ibxth:  bzr status -r x..y
[11:16] <GaryvdM> ibxth then bzr cat FILE -r y
[11:18] <ibxth> but i need ALL the files than have changed between two revision
[11:20] <GaryvdM> ibxth: What are you going to do with the files?
[11:21] <ibxth> Upload to server.
[11:22] <GaryvdM> ibxth: Do you know that the bzr-upload plugin does this for you
[11:23] <ibxth> GaryvdM, thanks
[11:24] <ibxth> I did not know about this plugin
[11:25] <fax8> GaryvdM: thanks, than this has to be updated http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/DistroDownloads#Ubuntu
[11:25] <GaryvdM> fax8: ok
[11:27] <fax8> GaryvdM: saw the page updated, thanks!
[11:32] <fax8> GaryvdM: I would say that the two lines:
[11:32] <fax8> Stable version: 	2.2.1
[11:32] <fax8> Test version: 	2.3b1
[11:33] <fax8> under the bazaar logo on the bazaar website homepage need more visibility.. I spent the some time trying to find what was the latest stable version
[11:33] <GaryvdM> fax8: That would mean that we would have to update that page a lot more often
[11:34] <Glenjamin> Could these things be pulled from a central source somewhere?
[11:35] <GaryvdM> I see the 2.2.1, and 2.3b2 announced on http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/
[11:35] <GaryvdM> under the Core News heading.
[11:42] <fax8> nope. I mean this http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8591/bzrhomepage.jpg
[11:43] <GaryvdM> fax8: Oh - I understand now. I don
[11:44] <GaryvdM> I don't know who would be able to fix that. poolie?
[11:50] <vila> GaryvdM: should be in bzr-website
[13:47] <Kaamos> hi
[13:47] <Kaamos> can someone answer a question?
[13:48] <jelmer> Kaamos: Depends on the question. :-)
[13:48] <jelmer> Kaamos: Just ask the question, if there's somebody around who knows the answer or can help they'll speak up.
[13:48] <Kaamos> =), i want to know how the bazaar keeps track of the changes made to the files
[13:49] <jelmer> Kaamos: how does it store the deltas between in the repository you mean?
[13:50] <Kaamos> im not quite familiar with those tools, im writing a college paper about those SCM tools comparing to the caracterisitics of the ISO 140102
[13:50] <Kaamos> and one of these caracterisitics is keep track of the changes
[13:51] <Kaamos> by the example, it means to know who changed the fyle, what change was made, and when it was made
[14:02] <GaryvdM> Kaamos: I would recommend this as a good first read: http://www.ericsink.com/scm/scm_repositories.html
[14:03] <GaryvdM> bzr is different in some details, but it will give you a good picture.
[14:22] <Kaamos> thank you gary i will look it right now
[14:38] <mgz> vila: will do.
[14:38] <vila> mgz: great !
[14:40] <vila> mgz: by the way, shouldn't you land https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gz/bzr/require_unicode_committer_614593/+merge/38334 ?
[14:40] <mgz> possibly. was wondering if jam would save me from my fretting with more sage advice.
[14:41] <vila> mgz: k, request a review then, it's more likely to get  you an answer for an mp already approved ;)
[14:42] <mgz> that might be wise. was just going to try and glomp him here.
[14:52] <mgz> okay, put a mp up with the hack vila, and sent a message to the list.
[16:03] <Kaamos> how does bazaar handles the history of a file?
[16:19] <fullermd> Gently?  :)
[16:23] <Kaamos> =D
[16:24] <Kaamos> for what i see, it is using the diff command
[16:24] <Kaamos> but i dont know how it works
[16:24] <Kaamos> if he displays who have done the change
[16:24] <roryy> Kaamos: what do you want to do?  maybe you want "bzr log" ?
[16:25] <Kaamos> yeah something like that
[16:25] <Kaamos> What was changed
[16:25] <Kaamos> When the change was made
[16:25] <Kaamos> Who did it
[16:25] <Kaamos> Why (the comment entered at checkin time)
[16:25] <Glenjamin> that bzr log, yeah
[16:26] <Kaamos> bzr log provides all this informations?
[16:27] <roryy> yip; take a look at "bzr help log"
[16:28] <Kaamos> i will tkz guys
[16:31] <GaryvdM> Kaamos: Also bzr annotate FILE
[17:57] <roryy> i've added 'missing' to 'bzr status' for bug 134168; i've updated BranchStatus.test_tree_status_specific_files -- what other tests should i change?
[17:58] <Glenjamin> if all the tests pass, and whatever you added is tested by that - then in theory that should be enough.
[17:59] <roryy> ok.  there's a whole mishmash of testing non-existent file cases
[18:01] <jelmer> maxb: Will you have a chance to follow up on my comments to your subvertpy branch?
[19:36] <jelmer> maxb: ping
[20:31] <pinguin> hi how to ignore a single collom of a file?
[20:34] <txdv> hello guys
[20:34] <txdv> what is a revision? is it a commit in the mainline?
[20:36] <luks> it's a state of the source code tree
[20:37] <txdv> is it possible to calculate the revisio number just based on the commit tree?
[20:38] <luks> it's a graph, not a tree
[20:38] <luks> but yes, that's how bzr revision numbers are calculated
[20:38] <txdv> just going down the mainline and adding the commit?S
[20:38] <luks> oh, but perhaps you meant a different tree
[20:38] <luks> for the mainline yes
[20:39] <luks> it get's complicated with merges
[20:39] <txdv> i'm using git and i want to calculate that pesky bzr revision number
[20:39] <luks> hm?
[20:40] <txdv> i converted a bzr repo to a git repo
[20:40] <txdv> but even excluding the merges will generate revnumber which is toobig
[20:40] <txdv> to be true
[20:42] <luks> well, I'm not sure what are you really asking
[20:42] <txdv> i want to know how the revision number is generated
[20:42] <luks> http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/MatthewFuller/SpotDocs/RevNumbering
[20:42] <txdv> omg
[20:42] <txdv> your google skills are better
[20:43] <txdv> then mine
[20:43] <txdv> thanks
[20:43] <luks> I didn't have to google :)
[20:43] <txdv> yeah you used your ninja skillz
[20:43] <fullermd> The author is a genius.  Handsome, too.
[20:44] <txdv> what are you talking about?
[20:44] <fullermd> Oh, just passing the time   :)
[20:44] <roryy> and humble
[20:45] <txdv> If the either the author or you are not female please do it somehow different xD
[20:45] <fullermd> I heard a rumor he once saved a bus full of school children from certain death in a volcano eruption.  Might just be a rumor though.
[20:46] <txdv> who did that?
[20:46] <txdv> Superman?
[20:47] <fullermd> Nah, Superman just saved some chick from an earthquake as I recall.  He thinks so small...
[20:48] <pinguin> hi how to ignore a single collom of a file?
[20:57] <GaryvdM> fullermd: :-p
[20:58] <GaryvdM> pinguin: what is a collom? column maybe?
[20:58] <pinguin> yes
[20:58] <GaryvdM> pinguin: Maybe content views may help.
[20:59] <GaryvdM> pinguin: What type of file is it?
[20:59] <pinguin> python
[21:02] <pinguin> GaryvdM: have you a link to content views doku?
[21:02] <GaryvdM> pinguin: Why? What column? (/me didnot know the python had columns)
[21:03] <GaryvdM> pinguin: I'm trying to find what I was thinking about
[21:04] <fullermd> Well, it's hard to do much python without using Coulombs...
[21:04] <pinguin> i want to exclude a single line from a commit
[21:05] <GaryvdM> pinguin: I was thinking about content filters ttp://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-reference/content-filters-help.html
[21:05] <GaryvdM> pinguin: But you probably  just want to shelve  + commit + unshelve
[21:08] <pinguin> for example we have a password in our file and that should not be under version control
[21:10] <pinguin> hmmm
[21:12] <GaryvdM> Oh  - The best thing is to probably extract it a config file that does not get versioned.
[21:13] <pinguin> no we need the file under version control (only one line ignored)
[21:24] <txdv> fullermd: he thinks with his penis
[21:24] <txdv> :>
[21:24] <txdv> but even so he should have saved a bus full of cheerleaders
[22:32] <peitschie1> mornin all :)
[23:01] <pattern> "bzr launchpad-login foo" will tell bzr to set my launchpad username to "foo"
[23:01] <pattern> how can i unset it or set it to nothing?
[23:05] <james_w> you have to edit the config file as far as I know
[23:06] <pattern> which config file?
[23:07] <mwhudson> ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
[23:07] <poolie> mkanat, hi?
[23:08] <mkanat> Hey poolie. :-)
[23:15] <pattern> mwhudson: thank you
[23:33] <dOxxx> evnin'
[23:44] <peitschie> hi dOxxx


[22:20] <hggdh> !no yy.mm is <reply> Ubuntu version numbers are: YY.MM (YY=release year,MM=release month). Each year sees two releases, so just specifying YY is imprecise. See also https://www.ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
[22:20] <hggdh> finally
[22:23] <JackFrost> Yep, wrong bot.  ubottu is king.


[04:48] <Iconic255> I want to create a LoCoTeam.
[04:54] <Iconic255> Anyone here?
[05:46] <YoBoY> Iconic255: hi
[05:46] <YoBoY> you country don't have already a locoteam?
[06:33] <AlanBell> Iconic255: where in the world are you?
[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[10:09] <BigWhale> I'll take some time now, to brag about our translation team. https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu/oneiric
[10:48] <CrazyLemon> slovenian show off :))


[00:00] <pragmaticenigma> derek-shnosh: Lenovo machine with a Dell docking station?
[00:13] <derek-shnosh> pragmaticenigma: yeah, already had it readily avail from my work laptop.
[00:14] <derek-shnosh> The issue wasn't the dock though because one of the displays (with the USB-C <> DP cable) is directly connected to the laptop on another USB-C port... it wasn't working either.
[00:15] <tv_> hi
[00:15] <derek-shnosh> Didn't want to undo all my cable mgmt, dock is snap-velcro'ed to the bottom of the desk corner. https://i.imgur.com/NnDRm6m.jpeg
[00:16] <pragmaticenigma> derek-shnosh: well there's your problem... the dock is upside down, all the electrons fell out
[00:17] <derek-shnosh> >.<
[00:17] <derek-shnosh> Actually still right side up ;)
[00:17] <tv_> opa blz
[00:17] <pragmaticenigma> derek-shnosh: my former employers dell dock had powered fan, does yours as well?
[00:18] <derek-shnosh> pragmaticenigma: I think so... it's a WD22TB4 dock, I hear it spin up when I first power it on.
[00:20] <pragmaticenigma> I miss mine... new employer just got a cheapo Lenovo dock with DisplayLink... so no display until the machine is fully booted :(
[00:40] <oerheks> Derailed, good spot!
[00:40] <oerheks> err derek-shnosh
[09:18] <tuxinator> Hi
[09:18] <tuxinator> Somebody using pam_mount?
[09:19] <Unit193> It's pretty useful.
[09:26] <tuxinator> Unit193: Talking to me?
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> seems like it tuxinator
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> tuxinator: did you also have a question around it?
[09:49] <nteodos> Just had the most weird problem, was installing a base-files from Jammy in my Mantic installation, at the end Apt failed with some message about rm not being found and then no command would be found. Rebooted and now get kernel panic, can't find /sbin/init though inspecting the disk from another OS proves it's there, as is everything else... :S
[10:04] <tuxinator> lotuspsychje: Well, seems like... one should use the "user:" method of replying ;-)
[10:04] <tuxinator> lotuspsychje: Well i am trying to get pam_mount running with gocryptfs also for ssh logins and not only local logins, but ssh never asks for password when using pubkeyauth
[10:08] <tuxinator> lotuspsychje: Looks like Publickey Authentication entirely skips pams "auth" parts
[10:09] <nteodos> I just asked in -devel, so please ignore my query here.
[10:10] <tuxinator> lotuspsychje: just found AuthenticationMethods in sshd, looking at it at the Moment
[10:16] <tuxinator> lotuspsychje: Well, finally! it looks like doing pubkey and keyboard-interactive using AuthenticationMethods does the Job!
[10:43] <ogra_> nteodosio, installing base files from an older release is a rather insane idea ... even if it worked i think there was that /usr merge stuff between the two releases that will likely break the world
[10:44] <nteodosio> That's indeed what happened ogra_, see #ubuntu-devel. It was of world breaking consequences but the fix was not so scary after all.
[10:45] <ogra_> oh, i see colin helped ...
[13:09] <vlm> is it possible to hold updates for a snap but at same time get notified when theres an update available?
[13:12] <ogra_> vlm, not out of the box butu you could craft something based on "snap refresh --list" which is a no-op but will list upgradeable snaps
[13:13] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:16] <vlm> ogra_, thanks (,")
[13:33] <ioria> vlm, roughly crafted:  var=$(snap list | grep tesseract| awk '{print $2}');var1=$(snap info tesseract| grep stable| grep -v track| awk '{print $2}'); echo $var ; echo $var1; if [[ "$var" != "$var1" ]]; then echo "UPDATE ASAP"; fi  ; then you can pipe to notify-send with a cronjob
[13:35] <vlm> ioria, thanks for reply aswell =) will test it soon
[13:36] <oerheks> https://snapcraft.io/docs/managing-updates , exampl  snap refresh --hold=24h firefox
[13:42] <vlm> oerheks, ill check the link for some reading also, though i managed to hold it for all time which was my intention, though i didnt seem to get any notification when there was new updates available, ill give your web page a go
[13:57] <ioria> vlm, a little better : echo "enter snap name - ";read line; var=$(snap list | grep $line| awk '{print $2}');var1=$(snap info $line| grep stable| grep -v track|  grep -v preview |awk '{print $2}'); echo $var ; echo $var1; if [[ "$var" != "$var1" && "$var1" != "--" ]]; then notify-send  "UPDATE ASAP"; fi
[14:00] <leftyfb>  awk '/${line}/ {print $2}'    and awk '/preview/ {print $2}'
[14:17] <ogra_> ioria, woah, why all that effort ? snap refresh --list will do all the checks you do in your script anyway ... sdo as soon as a name shows up in the list you can be sure the channel snapd is tracking for that package has an update ... you really dont need so much scriptery
[14:23] <ogra_> PKG=firefox; if snap refresh --list | grep -q $PKG; then notify-send "snap package for $PKG is ready to be refreshed"; fi
[14:25] <ogra_> vlm, run that periodically from a cronjob or some such in your desktop session ^^^ ... if you want to check multiple packages wrap a "for" loop aruond it that iterates over different values for PKG
[14:33] <vlm> ogra_, many thanks im just testing out firefox now so a littlte busy as it seems to work fine again after no updates for probably a while since i forgot due to no notification hehe
[14:56] <Zed> Hello.. Does anyone know of a way to get Expanded Security Maintenance and patches from a source /other/ than Canonical? I have been working with them for weeks with no result. I have an instance of 22.04.4 LTS in Azure that is not supported because only "Pay-As-You-Go and EA Subscriptions." are supported but I have a VDI that is a mission critical machine that I can't simply replace as it has been tested and
[14:56] <Zed> vetted with the NY Stock Exchange .. I hope that makes sense...
[14:58] <leftyfb> Zed: ESM(Pro) is a service provided by Canonical
[14:59] <Zed> I know
[14:59] <leftyfb> Zed: you should contact Canonical for commercial support for Pro
[14:59] <Zed> I just said they are not able to help
[15:00] <leftyfb> Zed: did they say they weren't able to help because you're a commercial customer who isn't willing to pay for their commercial services?
[15:00] <Zed> no
[15:00] <Zed> I am more than willing to pay
[15:00] <Zed> sorry just on a call.. I will explain in a second...
[15:27] <Zed> Since I am unable to buy the service directly from Microsoft I called Canonical directly. I was told by sales that I would get a quote in a day or so. I have been going back and fourth with them since February 20th but I still don't have a quote much less a contract.
[15:28] <leftyfb> Zed: you'll still need to work with Canonical
[15:28] <lotuspsychje> Zed: this channel holds only volunteers from the ubuntu community
[15:28] <Menzador> Zed: We're the community support channel. You're going to have to wait for Canonical themselves to get back to you
[15:28] <leftyfb> Zed: nobody else provides Ubuntu Pro services
[15:28] <plastikman> I have experience with the sales cycle at Canonical, its slow.
[15:29] <plastikman> but as stated here, you have no choice but to get the ESM packages from canonical.  you can set up an airgapped package repo (with the help of canonical) for these systems
[15:30] <plastikman> or, if you are feeling spicy, just set up a "personal" ubuntu pro sub and do a "pro attach xxxxx" on that system
[15:30] <lotuspsychje> plastikman: this is not really the place to discuss that
[15:30] <akik> huh
[15:31] <Zed> I understand all this. My question was phrased improperly. Is there any other way to get /all/ the available security patches...
[15:31] <plastikman> no
[15:31] <akik> you can't talk about ubuntu on #ubuntu. crazy
[15:31] <leftyfb> none that are supported here
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> akik: we try to divide ubuntu support issues, with user experiences/discussions into the right channels
[16:03] <ioria> ogra_, i still like mine :þ (i'am childish today)
[16:08] <DarkenedGentlema> Looking at the majority of the how-to docs out their for fail2ban and they look to use jail.local?  Just curious why as oposed to ./etc/fail2ban/jail.d/?
[16:15] <leftyfb> DarkenedGentlema: you can use either
[16:16] <librton> ubuntu installation stucked at help & support, how about an hour now. Is there any way to figure out what was/is wrong?
[16:22] <stenno> is it trying to install updates?
[16:28] <ioria> librton, switch to tty
[16:30] <librton> ioria: I've killed the previous installation gui window, started a new one, turned out the same previous window still in same stuck position
[16:31] <ioria> librton, ctrl+alt+f3 (or 2, or 1)
[16:31] <librton> Now I'm trying another installation ... Do you have an exact meaning of the installer window of disk partitioning "Device for boot loader installation:"?
[16:31] <librton> Is that the source or destination?
[16:32] <librton> It shows my installation hdd there /dev/sda which I don't wanna overwrite
[16:32] <ioria> librton, what is that ? windows
[16:32] <Menzador> Destination, but that's more for legacy installations. Usually it'll detect whether it's in EFI mode and find the EFI system partition (ESP)
[16:32] <Menzador> So it's still best to select whichever disk holds the ESP
[16:32] <Menzador> It won't overwrite your disk
[16:33] <Menzador> It's telling what legacy argument to pass to the [ grub-install ] command
[16:33] <ioria> librton, but you said 'stuck at help & support'
[16:34] <librton> Thanks Menzador , I'm not sure if this old hp 600B G1 supports efi but I've created 800Mb partition just in case
[16:34] <librton> ioria: yes, I've restarted the system already
[16:35] <ioria> librton,  next time  https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/no-progress-indicator/37288
[16:36] <ioria> librton,  there is a little button in the bottom right corner
[16:38] <librton> thanks ioria , I think I've figured out the issue now. not the solution though .....
[16:38] <librton> It's complaining about EFI something ...
[16:38] <ioria> librton,  i see.. a screenshot would help a bit
[16:39] <librton> "The attempt to mount a file system with type vfat in SCSI3 (0,0,0), partition #4 (sdc) at /boot/efi failed
[16:40] <librton> you may resume partitioning from the partitioning menu
[16:41] <librton> Linguistically speaking ,, it should state " you have to go back to the partitioning menu " instead of resume " which implies continue forward further "
[16:41] <librton> execuse my English
[16:43] <ioria> librton, did you create a new esp partition ?
[16:44] <ioria> librton, i mean, did you format it correctly ?
[16:46] <librton> yeah I think I didn't do it right .... It has 2 primaries for windows 7 installed already ... then I've created 1 primary for efi , and a logical with extended partitions for / and swap
[16:47] <librton> does it look good?
[16:47] <ioria> librton, efi should be formatted vfat
[16:48] <librton> fdisk -l /dev/sdc states it's EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
[16:48] <librton> ID ef
[16:51] <ioria> librton, sudo parted -l | nc termbin.com 9999
[16:56] <librton> but now it seem the installation is hanging at the same previous point
[16:56] <librton> ioria: it's not connected to the internet ... it has a wifi card
[16:57] <ioria> librton, ok, but do you see 'fat32        boot' ?
[17:02] <librton> here ... I did it with my mobile phone https://imgur.com/a/KtJhNSW
[17:03] <librton> ioria: yes it marked as a bootable partition
[17:03] <ioria> is dos pT
[17:03] <librton> yes
[17:04] <ioria> i don't think is correct; should be gpt; did you boot the installer in legacy mode ?
[17:05] <ioria> ah, ok windows is installed as legacy; nope, you cannot install in efi mode
[17:06] <ioria> librton, meaning, you need to install without an efi partition
[17:08] <ioria> librton, delete 3 to 6; enter bios, check if CSM/legacy is selected and reinstall
[17:10] <ioria> librton, be sure to boot the Installer as Legacy (not uefi)
[17:10] <librton> I see, but it will have to wait, I gotta run now
[17:10] <librton> thanks ioria
[17:10] <librton> cheers
[17:10] <ioria> ok
[18:23] <librton> ioria: bank ... with failure to grub installation to /dev/sdc
[18:23] <librton> maybe I'll give it a try with another distro to see how it works
[18:27] <ioria> librton, how did you do the usb-installer ?
[18:27] <ioria> librton, with what program ?
[18:36] <lbracher> Hello! Out of nowhere my bluetooth adapter disappears and I'm not able to recover it restarting the service. How could I diagnose what is happening? TIA!
[18:45] <librton> ioria: I've 500GB SATA hdd with bunch of linux & windows iso under Ventoy
[18:46] <librton> now I'm trying lmde and stuck again after the partitioning point saying "The EFI partition is too small. it must be at least 35MB" where in fact I didn't bother making efi partition knowing this is dos hdd and windows 7 on the other side of it
[18:47] <ioria> librton, you can't install on the same disk in bios and efi mode
[18:48] <librton> the windows partition is no longer booting after the second attempt of ubuntu, beside I didn't ask any of the linux distro to install/use EFI mode
[18:49] <librton> I'm not sure which isn't compatible with which because I didn't find any EFI related options with the CMOS BIOS Step of this pC
[18:49] <ioria> librton, i would do again the the installer with rufus (or etcher)
[18:49] <librton> not sure if it supports it
[18:50] <ioria> what ?
[19:08] <librton> what is the difference between partition flags boot and bls_boot in GParted?
[19:08] <librton> which should be given to efi partition?
[19:12] <librton> I think the because the installation distro sees an EFI partition on the source of installation media then it's automatically assuming that this is going to be EFI installation which later ends up meeting an old DOS filesystem on the destination hdd
[19:13] <JanC> https://www.gnu.org/software/parted/manual/html_node/set.html
[19:14] <librton> so yes, there is no issue with both distro iso(s) and using an imaged usb with dd may solve the issue
[19:41] <librton> tried couple of other failing distros but slackware seems to getting it
[19:42] <librton> viva la alto penguino
[23:00] <Guest9671> Hello
[23:01] <Guest9671> Anybody home
[23:01] <jeremy31> !ask | Guest9671
[23:42] <oerheks> yes


[01:00] <rmcadams> ok bdx - back - so you think doing an 'add chassis' might be the differentiator to fix this eh?
[01:23] <bdx> rmcadams: possibly
[01:26] <rmcadams> deploying these two big nodes right now to test it out
[01:28] <bdx> rmcadams: a quick search turns up http://askubuntu.com/questions/663771/how-to-configure-maas-to-be-able-to-boot-virtual-machines-via-vmware-type
[01:28] <bdx> see the first answer
[01:30] <bdx> rmcadams: do you know how to use cloud init with virsh?
[01:32] <bdx> rmcadams: its worth looking into .... you can create a user-data file, and use that in combination with an ubuntu cloud image to create your vms on demand, instead of installing the os etc etc
[01:32] <rmcadams> honestly we havent done much with cloud init and virsh, I know you can boot instances with it etc... but we typically boot the virsh instances up to RedHat OSPD right now.
[01:32] <bdx> nice nice
[01:33] <rmcadams> it is nice, but it doesnt afford me the opportunity to "do more" like maas ;)
[01:34] <bdx> ahhh yeah , I was just thinking if you are wanting to create vms on those hosts on demand and check them into maas
[01:35] <bdx> http://blog.oddbit.com/2015/03/10/booting-cloud-images-with-libvirt/
[01:35] <bdx> ^ is a nice read if you are interested
[01:37] <bdx> rmcadams: possably we are talking about different things .. my impression was that you wanted to deploy 2 hardware nodes with maas, then create a bunch of virtual machines on those hosts to check into maas
[01:37] <rmcadams> I do
[01:38] <rmcadams> so as an example, rather than spending a bunch of $ on hardware
[01:38] <bdx> exactly, ok
[01:38] <rmcadams> we build 4 infrastructure nodes
[01:38] <rmcadams> and build the application vms we need
[01:38] <rmcadams> like openstack director
[01:38] <rmcadams> sdn controllers etc
[01:38] <bdx> totally, I use to have a test lab that had a few of different setups that were just like that
[01:38] <bdx> you can totally do that
[01:39] <bdx> where I found some pain points was
[01:40] <bdx> getting the virsh vms all created and checked into maas
[01:40] <rmcadams> I wrote an ansible script for that
[01:40] <bdx> you need to ensure you provision the vms on a bridge that maas can provide dhcp through
[01:40] <bdx> ok
[01:41] <bdx> on top of that copying images around is messy, and creating the vms from isos is time consuming
[01:42] <rmcadams> you know it!
[01:42] <rmcadams> is that blog post above yours?
[01:43] <bdx> by using the cloud init userdata as a mounted iso, you can go from 0 to running instance in a fraction of the time
[01:43] <bdx> I didn't write it, but I remember it was the same post I found that led me to the solution I was after when I was figuring all this out
[01:44] <rmcadams> ya
[01:45] <bdx> the only gotcha about using the user-data, is you have to create a different config.iso specific to each instance, bc the meta-data contains instance-id: my-instance-id
[01:45] <bdx> local-hostname: my-host-name
[01:45] <bdx> Y
[01:47] <bdx> when you gen the config iso, you have to feed it the user-data and meta-data, so you end up with a config.iso for each vm
[01:48] <rmcadams> another thing that would be super nice, is if you could copy and paste config templates from 1 node to another node
[01:48] <rmcadams> since most of us deploy with repeatable hardware
[01:49] <bdx> yeah ... another thing you could try to make this faster
[01:49] <bdx> juju bootstrap your maas
[01:49] <bdx> deploy those two hardware nodes with juju
[01:49] <bdx> then just add a bunch of kvm to them with juju
[01:50] <rmcadams> so yah, I thought about that
[01:50] <rmcadams> one of my Canonical sales engineers told me that
[01:50] <bdx> then add the chassis in maas once it hass all the vms
[01:51] <bdx> idk ...
[01:51] <bdx> ha
[02:12] <stormmore> I am still trying to figure out the best way to bootstrap an einvironment so that the maas-region and maas-rack controllers become part of the platform instead of separate
[02:18] <pmatulis> stormmore, back up a bit. at a higher level, what are you trying to do?
[02:19] <stormmore> put the maas controllers on managed hosts probably in LXD containers on the admin model
[02:20] <stormmore> pmatulis I know the steps just wondering if there is a better way
[02:21] <pmatulis> stormmore, MAAS should already be set up, you then connect juju to MAAS
[02:22] <pmatulis> stormmore, or are you trying to install MAAS with juju?
[02:23] <stormmore> that is what I am thinking might be ideal... the end state would be not to have a dedicated machine for maas in the environment
[02:24] <pmatulis> stormmore, and how have you tried installing MAAS with juju?
[02:24] <stormmore> right now the plan is to bootstrap using a dedicated maas controller, then bootstrap juju, deploy maas-region and maas-rack charms, mitgrate the db and decon the machine
[02:26] <pmatulis> stormmore, what command will you use to install MAAS with juju?
[02:27] <stormmore> tbh haven't really tried too much since I am using the maas controller install direct from the ISO
[02:28] <pmatulis> stormmore, that's what i am getting at. i don't believe there is a maintained juju way to install MAAS
[02:30] <stormmore> there is a charm for maas-region, doesn't look official but it does mean to bootstrap an environment becomes a multistep process for now
[02:32] <pmatulis> well, i would advise to stay away from it
[02:33] <pmatulis> there is no obvious benefit to balance the risk and heartache
[02:35] <stormmore> I disagree since having the maas services spread in the cluster removes the need for dedicated hardware for something that is not necessarily used that much
[02:37] <stormmore> ideal I would move the maas-rack-controller components onto the switch hardware and put the maas-region-controller components on the same node as the juju-controller
[02:38] <rick_h> stormmore: so I think the way you can get around this a bit is to basically setup control nodes with manual lxd containers and get the components going, a juju controller, install maas, register those lxd containers into the maas, and then go from there
[02:39] <rick_h> stormmore: there's some thoughts longer term about being able to share a controller on the metal, the cloud put onto that metal, etc. So that you've got one control plane for several layers as long as they're on the same physical network
[02:39] <rick_h> stormmore: but it's not there atm
[02:42] <stormmore> rick_h: right now I am thinking of dedicating a bootstrap machine for maas services and as part of the overall environment bring up move all the services using juju deploy <charm> even if I have to write a charm for it ;-) then I can "reboot" the bootstrap system and add it too
[02:43] <stormmore> I want to get to the point that the region and rack controllers are in different spaces and thus remove a NAT rule on my router
[02:43] <rick_h> stormmore: do us a favor and write to the juju list on how the experiment goes. I'm always curious how folks are looking to put parts together.
[02:44] <stormmore> rick_h for sure :) I still like the idea of putting the rack controller on the switches but that is me just daydreaming and I know it
[02:45] <rick_h> well I think that's still the goal in life. A world of snap enabled switches and maas as a snap :)
[02:45] <rick_h> I think it'd be pretty cool to run a small home router with maas on the router myself
[02:45] <rick_h> need those ubuntu/snap devices to go forward
[02:46] <stormmore> yeah that would be kinda cool :) I am just not sure about storing the db on the switch/router
[02:47] <rick_h> yea, but at the same time how much data is in there really?
[02:47] <rick_h> $backups$ :P
[02:47] <stormmore> rick_h do you know if there is any thought being put into 'multi-region' maas or am I missing something
[02:48] <rick_h> I thought maas was multi-region already?
[02:48] <stormmore> it is but not in the same way aws is as far as juju is... either that or I am missing something in my configuration
[02:48] <stormmore> juju sees*
[02:48] <rick_h> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1600061 is what got me thinking
[02:48] <mup> Bug #1600061: Expect multi-region MAAS clouds <maas-provider> <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1600061>
[02:49] <rick_h> there was some work around this in the new add-clouds interactive bits in 2.1beta
[02:49] <stormmore> well it is on the backlog then :)
[02:49] <rick_h> but not sure if juju now supports fully that
[02:50] <stormmore> oh I can work around it for now... happy it is at least in the backlog
[02:56] <stormmore> oh and I agree for a home setup putting the db on the router makes sense, (still not sure i would want to run postgres on a router) but for a multi-dc environment with other postgres dbs, not so much
[03:33] <rmcadams> my switches are all cumulus
[03:33] <rmcadams> x86
[03:33] <rmcadams> probably a way to put something on there, that's an interesting concept, but yah... it's interesting
[03:33] <rmcadams> I wanted it part of the environment too, not standalone
[03:58] <stormmore> I thought about cumulus, not quite ready to make that jump yet
[04:00] <stormmore> it just seems like even the smallest of the smallest server would still be overkill for the controllers (especially once you move postgres off)
[04:01] <stormmore> oh and the switch seemed logical since you could ship it basically preconfigured with pxe, tftp, etc.
[04:01] <stormmore> you could call me crazy but I do likely to daydream about the ideal in the modern age
[04:09] <rmcadams> I love cumulus quite honestly, its so simple... and with knowledge of linux and some ansible skills you never touch it
[04:12] <rmcadams> so bdx - I'm not sure that MAAS "Chassis" are going to fix the virsh issue
[04:19] <rmcadams> yah, so when I add a 'chassis' (virsh box) that has 5 compute nodes configured, none of them are added to the MAAS, in addition, if they boot and come up the virsh settings are still global :(
[04:19] <rmcadams> thanks for the try bdx
[04:32] <rmcadams> oh boy, scratch that bdx - it worked
[04:32] <rmcadams> wow
[05:12] <rmcadams> Well that does it, 6 Compute Nodes, 4 Infrastructure nodes and 4 Storage nodes through virsh with two hosts... thanks to bdx
[07:46] <kjackal> Good morning Juju world!
[15:39] <arosales> kjackal: good morning
[15:40] <arosales> Just a reminder: There will be a Juju Show Hangout today @ 2pm USA Eastern time
[15:45] <lazyPower> arosales where do i buy tickets to the show?
[15:49] <arosales> lazyPower: here, it will only cost you code commits :-)
[16:25] <setuid> Any experts with numa/hugepages about, specific to customizing a charm to pin vms to node 0?
[16:26] <setuid> IOW, how to define in the charm, that both vms will be pinned to node 0, and not balanced across node 0 and 1
[18:26] <bdx> can I add users to my models on the juju beta hosted controller?
[18:27] <bdx> `$ juju users` shows "ERROR unknown object type "UserManager" (not implemented)"
[18:27] <bdx> is there something I'm missing here?
[18:28] <rick_h> bdx: I don't think you need to add the user since it's backed by SSO
[18:28] <rick_h> bdx: have you tried just granting an sso user email?
[18:28] <bdx> oooo
[18:28] <bdx> no
[18:28] <bdx> I haven't, I'll try that now
[18:28] <rick_h> bdx: maybe bac can confirm/deny
[18:30] <bdx> rick_h: you have to use the users launchpad email, not username?
[18:31] <rick_h> bdx: not sure on that one. 50/50 shot?
[18:33] <bdx> rick_h: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23823403/
[18:33] <bdx> it must be email then
[18:36] <bdx> rick_h: users lp email worked
[18:36] <bdx> still can't list users though ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/23823423/
[18:39] <rick_h> bdx: if you show-model is that there?
[18:39] <bdx> rick_h: yeah ... and it says "users: {}"
[18:39] <rick_h> bdx: it should like users of the model in that output
[18:39] <rick_h> oh hmmm, well so much for that :/
[18:39] <bdx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23823432/
[18:40] <bdx> even though I just successfully added a user via lp email
[18:40] <bdx> rick_h: ahhh, the user hasn't signed up for juju beta yet, or he just did like right now
[18:40] <bdx> do you think the user must be registered for juju beta in order for me to add them to my model?
[18:41] <rick_h> bdx: I don't think so? but I'm not sure.
[18:41] <rick_h> bdx: I'm reaching out to see if we can get someone deeper in that side of things to help us out here
[18:42] <bdx> if so, can I just give them my register command (as it seems like a generic address) so they can register now, and don't have to wait on the email response back from canonical
[18:43] <frankban> bdx: have you tried juju granting user@external?
[18:44] <frankban> bdx: like "juju grant simonbacquie@external admin prm-demo", assuming simonbacquie is the proper usso name
[18:44] <bdx> frankban: I ran this command, which seemed to succeed "juju grant<EMAIL_ADDRESS>admin common-infrastructure"
[18:45] <bdx> ahhh, <lp-username>@external
[18:45] <bdx> I'll try that
[18:45] <frankban> bdx: no, please try juju grant {usso-username}@external admin {model-name}
[18:45] <frankban> bdx: yeah
[18:46] <bdx> frankban: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23823475/
[18:46] <bdx> here's `juju users --debug` -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23823479/
[18:48] <frankban> bdx: that's ok, possibly something we need to improve when showing models in jimm
[18:48] <frankban> mhilton: ^^^
[18:48] <frankban> bdx: but now that user should be able to admin your model
[18:49] <bdx> frankban, ok, can I have that user run `juju register jimm.jujucharms.com` ?
[18:49] <frankban> bdx: yes
[18:50] <mhilton> bdx, frankban: I think that's a known limititation, but I'll make sure its on the bug list.
[18:51] <frankban> thanks mhilton
[18:52] <rick_h> jcastro: marcoceppi_ arosales tvansteenburgh mbruzek lazyPower and other folks the hangout url for the show is https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/EVQjb5MECk3bIol40w_4rT0ibocCKyiqpk3QAkWjBEE=?eid=103184405956510785630&hl=en_US&authuser=0
[18:52] <rick_h> and the youtube viewing link is http://youtu.be/Lsbo7f7yMxY
[18:52] <mbruzek> thanks rick_h
[18:57] <arosales> rick_h: thanks
[18:59] <arosales> Getting ramped up for the Juju Show
[19:03] <mskalka> pardon my ignorance but what is the Juju Show?
[19:03] <rick_h> mskalka: http://youtu.be/Lsbo7f7yMxY check it out
[19:03] <bdx> mskalka: find out -> http://youtu.be/Lsbo7f7yMxY
[19:03] <mskalka> thanks!
[19:07] <sparkiegeek> woop woop, Juju Show time - missed the first few minutes
[19:15] <tvansteenburgh> https://github.com/juju/python-libjuju
[19:16] <tvansteenburgh> https://pythonhosted.org/juju/index.html
[19:19] <sparkiegeek> QUESTION: how will libjuju versioning work? Specifically will it release 1:1 with associated Juju versions? What about bugfixes?
[19:24] <arosales> sparkiegeek: per tvansteenburgh answer of loading the desired juju version be good to start a juju mail list thread and get folks opinion on it
[19:25] <sparkiegeek> arosales: sure. But the code generation that it uses can't be loaded from the API AFAIK
[19:26] <tvansteenburgh> correct
[19:26] <arosales> sparkiegeek: good to discuss that with tvansteenburgh
[19:26] <arosales> but perhaps on the list of pro/cons to get others input
[19:29] <arosales> for folks following along python-libjuju examples @ https://github.com/juju/python-libjuju/tree/master/examples
[19:29] <tvansteenburgh> sparkiegeek: what do you think of the idea i proposed?
[19:29] <tvansteenburgh> (for versioning)
[19:30] <sparkiegeek> tvansteenburgh: it's a nice idea - I'm just concerned about the generated code would work. You'd need N versions of the generated "blob"s for each Juju version you wanted to support
[19:31] <sparkiegeek> tvansteenburgh: I think a good change would be to instead split by facade - have separate generated blobs for each facade
[19:31] <sparkiegeek> tvansteenburgh: then negotiate with the API and do a negotiation on the facade version that libjuju supports and that it supports
[19:32] <sparkiegeek> tvansteenburgh: bigger font please
[19:34] <sparkiegeek> rick_h: LOL
[19:36] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: datadog/newrelic juju plugin using all watcher to report events back to your monitoring
[19:38] <bdx> chef/puppet already have these types of plugins .. all watcher would be perfect for for implementing the juju version of this
[19:38] <sparkiegeek> tvansteenburgh: arosales: FYI libjuju versioning thread started
[19:39] <tvansteenburgh> sparkiegeek: cool thanks
[19:43] <arosales> sparkiegeek: thanks
[19:44] <rick_h> sparkiegeek: hah, not waiting on causing trouble :P
[19:45] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: is there a better way for me to access the units of an application than what I'm doing here https://gist.github.com/jamesbeedy/dad808872e5488b43cf3fa5d5f2db87c#file-simple_juju_action-py-L37
[19:47] <bdx> tvansteenburgh I am only finding examples where you can deploy the application, then get the units similar to https://github.com/juju/python-libjuju/blob/master/examples/action.py#L32
[19:48] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: looking
[19:48] <sparkiegeek> app_web = model.units["app-web/2"] ?
[19:48] <tvansteenburgh> yes :)
[19:48] <tvansteenburgh> quick learner this guy
[19:49] <bdx> tvansteenburgh, sparkiegeek: ehhh, what if I don't know what units an application has?
[19:49] <sparkiegeek> and/or [unit for unit in model.applications["app-web"].units]
[19:49] <bdx> sparkiegeek: ahhh nice, thats what I was looking for thanks!
[19:50] <sparkiegeek> bdx: np!
[19:56] <CoderEurope> marcoceppi_: ping
[19:56] <marcoceppi_> CoderEurope: o/
[19:57] <CoderEurope> Cool beans - got the computer - ready to do Discourse in juju ?
[19:58] <CoderEurope> marcoceppi_: Can you jump on here for a second ? https://meet.schrodingersscat.com/LoyalOctopodesDiscussFinely
[19:58] <marcoceppi_> CoderEurope: I'm 2 mins away from a vacation. Can we schedule an official chat time next week?
[19:59] <marcoceppi_> CoderEurope: Like, this time Tuesday?
[19:59] <CoderEurope> Okay suppose so ... shame but I guess.
[19:59] <marcoceppi_> CoderEurope: yeah, super sorry about that
[19:59] <CoderEurope> I shall put it into my ubuntu phone :D
[20:00] <marcoceppi_> CoderEurope: sweet, I'll make sure it's in my calendar, if you grab me this time next week on Tuesday, you'll have my full undivided attention!
[20:00] <CoderEurope> cool beans
[20:00] <CoderEurope> have a good vacation :D
[20:03] <bdx> sparkiegeek, tvansteenburgh: much better now -> https://gist.github.com/jamesbeedy/dad808872e5488b43cf3fa5d5f2db87c
[20:05] <tvansteenburgh> bdx: for unit_name, unit in model.applications['app-web'].units.items():
[20:05] <tvansteenburgh> that way you don't have to create the Unit object
[20:08] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: ooh, because the unit objects are already available via the units dict?
[20:08] <tvansteenburgh> yep
[20:08] <bdx> nice
[20:08] <bdx> awesome, thx
[20:13] <bdx> tvansteenburgh: this is what I've got now https://gist.github.com/jamesbeedy/dad808872e5488b43cf3fa5d5f2db87c
[20:14] <bdx> soo much cleaner ... wow .... thanks again
[20:14] <bdx> sparkiegeek: ^
[20:14] <tvansteenburgh> bdx, one bug there
[20:15] <tvansteenburgh> "for unit_name, unit in" (line 47)
[20:15] <tvansteenburgh> otherwise looks good!
[20:15] <bdx> oooh, entirely, thanks
[20:42] <petevg> cory_fu: does the cwr-ci charm just fetch matrix from github?
[20:42] <cory_fu> petevg: Yes
[20:43] <petevg> cory_fu: cool. When you get a chance, would you look at the PR at https://github.com/juju-solutions/matrix/pull/69, so that I can confirm that it works in the charm, and push the charm side of the PR for review?
[20:50] <cory_fu> petevg: So, I understand the desire to avoid having to pass the output dir through BT, but on the other hand, we eventually will want to add crashdump support to BT (for picking up logs prior to doing an env reset), at which point it's going to need the output directory as well.  And CWR already has the output directory passed in to it, so it seems like it wouldn't be much more of a change to add the arg pass-through to BT.
[20:51] <petevg> cory_fu: bundletester and matrix have a lot of conflicts in argument names, so it felt more foward facing to separate their arguments somehow.
[20:52] <petevg> cory_fu: another solution would be to do as tox does and have a delimiter that passes arguments after the delimiter to matrix.
[20:53] <cory_fu> petevg: I don't understand what you mean about conflicts in argument names?  I'm not suggesting a special arg for matrix in BT.  I'm saying, BT needs its own output dir option, and it should then be passed through to matrix as well.
[20:54] <cory_fu> And that BT output dir option would eventually be used to know where to put the crashdump output for the model that BT manages
[20:54] <cory_fu> *also be used
[20:55] <petevg> cory_fu: I understand that. I'm saying that, looking forward, we might actually want to pass multiple things through bundletester, to matrix, and maintaining a kind of manual translation table of arguments feels clunky. I'd rather have a way of talking around bundletester, through to matrix, than have to hard code translations inside of bundletester.
[20:57] <petevg> cory_fu: maybe it's just something we have to live with, given that we've decided to have bundletester drive matrix.
[20:57] <cory_fu> I can see that for things that are matrix specific, but I feel like the output dir is something that makes sense to pass through, since all three components are going to put things there, and we shouldn't have to pass it in three different ways
[21:01] <cory_fu> petevg: At any rate, this approach is easier and doesn't require touching BT and CWR, so we can go with it for now and consider refactoring when we have to add the output dir option to BT anyway
[21:04] <petevg> cory_fu: ty
[21:05] <bdx> frankban, rick_h: concerning credentials and the hosted controller ....
[21:05] <cory_fu> petevg: Merged
[21:05] <petevg> awesome. thx
[21:07] <bdx> I can add a model with a credential on my own controller and deploy ubuntu -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23824224/
[21:07] <bdx> but when I try the same thing on the hosted controller deploying anything fails
[21:08] <bdx> ahhh shoot ... nix that
[21:08] <bdx> its working
[21:13] <petevg> cory_fu: unfortunately, that's card isn't done done :-p (we actually do some manipulation of the output dir somewhere in either the guts of cwr or jenkins, and I'm testing a change that puts the matrix.tar.gz into a place where jenkins can actually surface it; PR coming.)
[21:13] <cory_fu> Ah, sorry.  :p
[21:13] <petevg> No worries. I just noticed it myself :-/
[21:53] <gQuigs> I can specify zesty as the series in a bundle, but I haven't been able to figure out how to force it to override the charms?
[21:53] <gQuigs> juju deploy bundlefile-reduced-zesty.yaml --series zesty --force
[21:53] <gQuigs> ERROR Flags provided but not supported when deploying a bundle: --force, --series.
[21:54] <lazyPower> gQuigs right, you can set the series in the bundle, per charm or as a whole for the bundle.
[21:55] <lazyPower> those --force and --series flags are intended for charm deployment, eg:  juju deploy ./etcd --series=zesty --force
[21:55] <lazyPower> as etcd only supports xenial in its metadata.yaml, those flags would tell juju to ignore those warns, and force deploy on zesty.
[21:56] <gQuigs> I'm trying to override about 10 charms (openstack) to try them on zesty
[21:56] <gQuigs> but I want to use a bundle for them..
[21:57] <lazyPower> gQuigs - i dont think theres an easy way to do that without using local charms with the series modified. rick_h might prove me wrong though, as he's kind of the bundle wizard of juju. he's clued me in to some neat features I didn't know about
[21:58] <mskalka> lazypower, even if you edited the bundle.yaml would juju throw errors for the charms that didn't support zesty?
[21:58] <mskalka> deploying from local that is
[21:58] <lazyPower> only if the metadata.yaml specifies series support
[21:58] <gQuigs> lazyPower: right, I'll fall back to editing each charm in turn
[21:58] <lazyPower> if its missing the series key, it should "just work" when you tell it in the bundle, as the bundle becomes the source of truth then
[22:00] <mskalka> so you'd have to ostensibly edit each metadata.yaml and change/remove the series and tell the bundle to deploy all local charms to completely avoid conflict?
[22:00] <rick_h> gQuigs: lazyPower if the charms don't devalre they support zesty it's not something the bundle can force sorry.
[22:00] <lazyPower> rick_h - if its  alocal path charm?
[22:00] <lazyPower> oh you're answering the first question. right
[22:00] <rick_h> gQuigs: lazyPower but the cahrm says it doesn't support it in the metadata?
[22:00] <gQuigs> rick_h: thanks for the answer :)
[22:01] <rick_h> I'm surprised they don't have something in testing and the like though.
[22:01] <lazyPower> rick_h how does a charm say i dont support somthing? I thought if its listed it supports it, if it has no series key in metadata, you can tell it whatever.
[22:01] <rick_h> beisner: do you all have anything for zesty in dev?
[22:01] <rick_h> lazyPower: you can, but the bundle does take that I don't believe.
[22:01] <lazyPower> hmm
[22:01] <rick_h> lazyPower: as you noted you have to manually force it with the --series flag
[22:02] <rick_h> It's like a --force
[22:02] <lazyPower> ok, i was kind of goign from hazy info anyway. i've done some weird things with local charms/bundles
[22:02] <gQuigs> lazyPower: thanks, I forgot about local branching and juju-deployer makes that trivial...
[22:02] <lazyPower> gQuigs np, we aim to have you not need to do that, but corner cases and all that
[22:03] <beisner> hi rick_h - not much yet.  we plan to enable the zesty series in the charms after the 17.02 openstack charms stable release.
[22:03] <rick_h> beisner: ah ok
[22:03] <rick_h> beisner: any trick youve thought of or used to try something on a new series before the charms are updated?
[22:04] <beisner> rick_h, if one uses juju-deployer, and the git branches instead of cs: values, one can deploy any charm to any series.  so, a friend said ;-)
[22:04] <beisner> rick_h, aiui, there is a --force with juju 2 native deploy, though, right?
[22:04] <rick_h> Gotcha
[22:05] <gQuigs> beisner: the --force doesn't work with bundles
[22:05] <rick_h> beisner: yes but only on deploy and not.on bundles
[22:05] <beisner> gQuigs, rick_h - ack, that would be for individual charm deploys wouldn't it?
[22:06] <gQuigs> would supporting --force series to bundles be a welcome feature to add?  (/me wouldn't mind giving it a shot)
[22:06] <beisner> gQuigs, rick_h - the reason we haven't yet enabled zesty metadata in the charms is because the openstack charms will release a stable update from master in Feb, in alignment with openstack upstream's new release cadence.  but that will be ~2 months ahead of zesty's release and we don't want that series declared in stable charms while zesty is still in dev on the Ubuntu side.
[22:07] <beisner> gQuigs, seems like a valid --force use case ;-)
[22:08] <rick_h> gQuigs: the reason it didn't get added as it's very special. What charms do you want to use it on? What if one of the 10 is windows...Or you know won't work. It's just a very narrow use case feature.
[22:08] <rick_h> The bundle has to be perfect for it to be useful
[22:09] <rick_h> gQuigs: I think having the bundle respect what's entered in the series for the charm would be better.
[22:09] <rick_h> E.G. If the series in the application section of the bundle says zesty, use that even if the charm says it's only trusty.
[22:10] <gQuigs> rick_h: hmm.. will take a look at the code around that
[22:10] <gQuigs> thanks all!


[07:07] <dpm> good morning all
[07:08] <sagaci> hi dpm
[07:11] <dpm> hey sagaci :)
[07:13] <artnay_> is there any way to raise the &batch= from 300 to higher number?
[07:13] <artnay_> +filter?person=name&batch=300&memo=50&start=150
[07:14] <artnay_> I have like 950 translations in this one template and would like to do ctrl+f for those
[07:14] <sagaci> artnay_, would be useful
[07:17] <artnay_> batch seems to use 300 as the highest possible value when indexing templates/filtering user contributed translations
[07:56] <TLE> dpm: goodmorning
[08:05] <dpm> hey TLE, good morning!
[08:06] <dpm> artnay_, there isn't any plan to raise that number. I think the limit was set for performance purposes and to avoid timeouts and oopses. You might want to check if there is an existing bug in LP for that
[08:23] <TLE> dpm: so what was the story about the lang packs
[09:31] <TLE> phew, finished the release notes for GNOME, just in time
[09:38] <head_victim> Anyone know a good place to talk about wishlist items for translating on launchpad?
[09:39] <head_victim> I'd like to be able to easily report bugs in translations as I'm doing them. For example if a string has a typo on them I want to be able to tick a box and it autogenerate a bug report.
[09:58] <TLE> I think you report it as a wishlist bug against launchpad translations
[10:00] <head_victim> I'm starting to think it's just me being lazy :/
[11:02] <TLE> head_victim: maybe, I mean I can sort of see your point, but for me what you are asking would be very far down the prioritized list that I would like to see in launchpad translations, efter e.g. a feedback on proofreading-system
[11:55] <sagaci> what was the date/freeze when the new base packs for translations start happening? I remember reading it somewhere
[12:32] <kelemengabor> sagaci: see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[12:35] <sagaci> that tells me when the freezes happen but the most recent base packs are dated 24/08, just wondering when newer packs will be available
[16:13] <andrejz> Hello dpm!
[16:13] <andrejz> i have some questions about the email about meadow mari team
[16:14] <dpm> hi andrejz
[16:14] <dpm> sure
[16:14] <dpm> btw andrejz, kelemengabor, are you up for the call tomorrow?
[16:14] <andrejz> how/where can plural forms be specified ?
[16:15] <kelemengabor> dpm: probably yes :)
[16:15] <andrejz> yes
[16:16] <dpm> andrejz, they just need to file a support request against the launchpad project and any lp developer can set those in lp. If they ping me about it, I've also got permissions to do it, so this might speed things up
[16:16] <dpm> andrejz, kelemengabor, cool, thanks
[16:16] <andrejz> well they only have 1 plural form so it should be easy
[16:24] <andrejz> to quote team admin: Meadow Mari and Hill Mari both have only 1 plural form when it is used with numbers.
[16:24] <andrejz> 0 words = 0 мут
[16:24] <andrejz> 1 word = 1 мут
[16:24] <andrejz> 2 words = 2 мут
[16:25] <andrejz> dpm, a question has already been asked - https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/172120
[16:27] <dpm> andrejz, ok, let me see if I can get to it by tomorrow's call, where I'd like to do a review of pending support requests
[16:28] <andrejz> great
[16:28] <andrejz> i am writing a reply right now
[16:28] <andrejz> can you also please forward me the actions from the last meeting?
[16:37] <andrejz> dpm
[16:38] <andrejz> i am writing an email about translations of universe packages in launchpad
[16:38] <andrejz> i am wondering are they going to be translatable under translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu or seperately
[16:39] <dpm> andrejz, they'll be translatable under the same urls
[16:40] <andrejz> ok
[16:40] <dpm> i.e. there won't be a distinction between universe and main
[16:40] <andrejz> another question: when do 12.04 translations branch from the current ones
[16:40] <andrejz> some of the KDE tempaltes still have a priority 0.
[16:41] <andrejz> it would be good to sort that out at least before 12.04 is opened so we have a fresh start
[16:41] <andrejz> maybe you can apply this with the script
[16:41] <andrejz> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak3RvMevQNNMdFV6eDV1U29Ea3JpUUQ2SkNKTUNYZHc&hl=en_US
[16:42] <andrejz> and then we can create a new list to set priorities
[16:42] <Odisha1> dpm, want language approval for https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-or ..
[16:49] <dpm> andrejz, sure, I'll try to do this before our call tomorrow. I've got more time now that developer.ubuntu.com is online, but also a lot to catch up on translations :)
[16:49] <andrejz> that's great to hear
[16:49] <andrejz> (that you have more time)
[16:50] <dpm> :-)
[17:04] <andrejz> dpm i just sent an email to ubuntu-translations about the Universe packages
[17:04] <dpm> thanks andrejz
[17:04] <andrejz> please add if you think anything crucial is missing
[17:04] <dpm> ok
[17:04] <andrejz> i am not fully aware of all the details


[11:15] <jphilips> do we need to do something with a config file or something so that neofetch shows the xubuntu logo rather than ubuntu
[11:15] <jphilips> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYGotCSXkAASSsI?format=jpg&name=medium
[11:18] <brainwash> jphilips: the OS is ubuntu
[11:19] <jphilips> brainwash: was looking for the xubuntu logo to appear https://imgur.com/sWaLcF8.png
[11:20] <jphilips> without the user having to use '--asci_distro xubuntu' for it to appear
[11:20] <brainwash> so
[11:20] <brainwash> shouldn't you contact the neofetch devs?
[11:21] <brainwash> they can tell what is missing or can be done
[11:24] <jphilips> yes i can do that if its something we couldn't rectify ourselves with a config file change
[11:25] <brainwash> what config file change?
[11:28] <brainwash> I assume that its devs can point us in the right direction or just fix this in their code
[11:29] <brainwash> you just have to contact them
[11:43] <jphilips> will do
[11:46] <jphilips> brainwash: do you know where lsb_release pulls its data from?
[11:49] <brainwash> there is a file in /etc, but the command could be doing more than just reading that file
[11:49] <brainwash> I mean this one /etc/lsb-release
[11:56] <jphilips> so neofetch is relying on this file /usr/lib/os-release
[12:02] <brainwash> and that file does not mention xubuntu, right?
[12:02] <jphilips> yep
[12:04] <brainwash> the end :)
[12:04] <jphilips> i wonder where ubiquity pulls from when it knows which flavor it is
[12:07] <jphilips> not really, because Ubuntu rather than Xubuntu doesn't appear in the grub screen, which means its a bigger problem than just neofetch
[12:11] <jphilips> https://imgur.com/Ew7U1ha.png
[12:12] <brainwash> keep it simple I'd say
[12:13] <brainwash> what should happen if you install xubuntu and kubuntu-desktop on top of it?
[12:13] <brainwash> XKubuntu?
[12:16] <bluesabre> A mess.
[12:24] <jphilips> you would have installed Xubuntu and are running the KDE DE and WM during that session
[12:25] <jphilips> i've filed the bug with them, so i guess we'll see what they say https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/issues/1461
[12:29] <jphilips> how do we fix the grub issue, or is that not a concern that it doesn't show the flavor's name?
[12:54] <bluesabre> I remember there being some concern that a different grub entry would require a different secure boot signed thing
[12:54] <bluesabre> But this was long long ago
[14:33] <jphilips> neofetch close the issue saying that 'as there's no way to reliably detect Xubuntu (as it is Ubuntu)'. is this correct?
[14:34] <bluesabre> Can check environment variables
[14:34] <bluesabre> `DESKTOP_SESSION=xubuntu`
[14:34] <bluesabre> That'd be the easiest way
[14:47] <bluesabre> !team | I'm planning a meeting for early next week... Let me know if 2100 UTC on Tuesday would work for you, or if there's a better time/date.
[14:47] <bluesabre> Unit193: I removed akxwi-dave and slickymaster from the team due to inactivity. Can you update the factoid when you get a chance?
[14:50] <jphilips> bluesabre: not a solid way, as other flavor use the desktop environment in that env variable
[14:50] <bluesabre> Yeah, but I think that variable alone is what controls if you get Xubuntu or Ubuntu+Xfce
[14:51] <bluesabre> Possibly `XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=xubuntu`
[14:52] <bluesabre> I need to check a live session... my local install is a bit messy right now :D
[14:52] <jphilips> :D
[14:53] <jphilips> well lubuntu has desktop_session=lubuntu, while xdg_session_desktop is blank
[17:53] <jphilips> is this image on the system requirements page copyrighted, as i saw it on another distro's site https://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/aea1/hardware.png
[21:41] <Unit193> jphilips: neofetch is right, the OS is Ubuntu.  And last I knew if one updated the grub menu EFI with secure boot stopped working (read: system doesn't boot.)  Besides it'd be wrong anyway.
[21:41] <Unit193> bluesabre: Alrighty!
[21:44] <jphilips> Unit193: so is Xubuntu not an OS, as we mention that it is on our website and documentation. Is Linux Mint not an OS because it uses the Ubuntu base, or is Ubuntu not an OS because it uses the Debian base.
[21:45]  * Unit193 sighs.
[21:45] <brainwash> it's a flavor
[21:47] <jphilips> yes flavor being an officially sanctioned remix of ubuntu
[21:47] <brainwash> remix?
[21:47] <brainwash> it does not add anything new, everything is in the ubuntu repository
[21:48] <jphilips> before you are an officially sanctioned flavor, you start of as a remix
[21:48] <jphilips> start off* as a remix
[21:48] <jphilips> presently there are remixes with cinnamon, deepin, unity and lumina
[21:49] <brainwash> Fedora has an official Xfce spin, but it's still Fedora
[21:50] <brainwash> or Manjaro Xfce
[21:50] <jphilips> yes fedora calls them spins
[21:50] <jphilips> manjaro has official ones (xfce, gnome, kde) and community ones
[21:51] <jphilips> well i've suggested the neofetch person to pull the flavor name from env like bluesabre suggested, hopefully that solves the issue with the logo appearing, which is all that i care for :D
[21:52] <jphilips> would be nice to get it in the grub screen as well, but definitely more challenging to do that it seems
[21:52] <brainwash> and if you start the Xfce session on a Xubuntu system?
[21:52] <Unit193> brainwash: Or if you install Xubuntu, then install KDE and kubuntu-default-settings?  Are you still booting into Xubuntu? :P
[21:52] <brainwash> right
[21:53] <brainwash> I wondered about that earlier too
[21:53] <brainwash> maybe the choice of boot splash determines what you are running :)
[21:54] <jphilips> your system would be xubuntu, but your DE would be KDE and WM would be KWin. these are all separately mentioned in neofetch
[21:55] <Unit193> Also isn't the Grub boot menu hidden by default anyway?
[21:55] <jphilips> not if you dual boot
[21:55] <Unit193> Ah.
[21:57] <Unit193> And I don't really agree with the last statement, and also wonder why 'neofetch' is the tell all here.  But whatever.
[21:57] <jphilips> its highly used when people share screenshots of their desktop, so its good PR for us to get our logo there :D
[21:58] <brainwash> ascii logo
[21:59] <jphilips> yep
[22:03] <jphilips> for those that didn't get a chance to give their input on the table of contents page of the documentation, please do when you get a chance https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KpmN_tCOHaDwQgNtqyyt6DqZ7M0xSMCNTadORcY_Whw/edit
[23:44] <jphilips> Unit193: from one of your twitter admirers "Xubuntu has the best metapackage for Xfce for sure (maybe meta from Arch is the tiniest)... All other distros force us to grab some apps I don't need (Debian task forces entire Libreoffice suite and some bulky Gnome stuff). Xubuntu has some focused work to make it shine." - https://twitter.com/UnixRat/status/1258151270122217472


[10:31] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:33] <slashbel> good morning
[10:34] <czajkowski> hows things ?
[10:41] <ebel> ello
[10:54] <slashbel> grand, feeling busy
[10:54] <czajkowski> know the feeling
[10:54] <czajkowski> post UDs am up the walls
[12:01] <czajkowski> http://www.stephenoconnor.info/about/latest-news/big-freeze-2012.html#.UJj7xFLrFYe
[12:01] <czajkowski> eep
[12:12] <slashbel> cool
[12:13] <slashbel> -10°C is cool!
[12:14] <czajkowski> yes it is
[12:14] <czajkowski> and the year it took me 3 days to get home it was about that as well
[12:16] <slashbel> aye, it's fine so long as you don't want to get anywhere…
[12:16] <slashbel> what's your man in Donegal saying this year?
[18:06] <automaciej> http://www.meteotimes.net/2012/09/peter-odonnells-winter-2012-13-forecast.html ← this forecast doesn't say anything about freezing temperatures.
[20:48] <delcoyote> ~


[08:45] <peterrus> how would I start finding out why my DRM is broken?
[08:49] <peterrus>  might ask the wrong question here though
[08:49] <peterrus> but my /sys/class/drm folder is not populated (only with 'version')
[08:50] <peterrus> so I can not change brightness or use vga/hdmi
[08:50] <peterrus> i use a intel HD4000
[08:50] <peterrus>  which should use the i915 module if I recall correctly
[08:50] <peterrus> this all used to work, until a few days ago
[08:50] <peterrus> I am not sure what caused it though
[08:58] <peterrus> furthermore would there be a difference in installing alpha-2 and then updating
[08:58] <peterrus> or just directly download QQ current
[08:58] <peterrus> install that and update
[08:58] <peterrus> because I might just be running some broken current build, while the rest of you is on alpha and have no problems whatsoever
[09:05] <peterrus> I am using a dual videocard setup with the second card (a nvidia card) turned off through bumblebee/optimus
[09:05] <peterrus> this thread however states that my nvidia driver is broken http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2012370
[09:06] <peterrus> might have something to do with it, but still, I should be using the intel card
[09:06] <peterrus> so maybe not
[09:22] <peterrus> rolling back the nvidia driver
[09:24] <ior3k> does anyone know what control-alt-\ is bound to?
[09:34] <peterrus> that made no difference
[09:34] <peterrus> I also get a lot of these: http://i.imgur.com/QpdQQ.jpg
[09:34] <peterrus> and then the system wont boot further
[09:34] <peterrus> it seems to happen random at boots
[09:34] <peterrus> sometimes I can get past them
[09:34] <peterrus> sometimes I wont get them
[09:34] <peterrus> and sometimes they just dont occur
[10:05] <peterrus> according to these changelogs nothing changed in the intel drivers for quite some time
[10:05] <peterrus> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+changelog
[11:22] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[11:25] <penguin42> Hey BK
[11:36] <BluesKaj> hi penguin42
[11:37] <penguin42> BluesKaj: How goes? I did a nice fresh QQ install yesterday onto my nice fresh SSD :-)
[11:39] <BluesKaj> oh , nice ssd , is it fast
[11:39] <BluesKaj> ?
[11:39] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Yeh, apt is just lightening fast, boot is faster - although there is still a delay going on somewhere I'll track down - but time from login until the desktop is ready is very quick
[11:40] <BluesKaj> cool
[11:40] <penguin42> hdparm -Tt is giving me 249MB/s - limited by my SATA-2 controller I assume
[11:41] <BluesKaj> at boot the hdd diskcheck runs everytime , I've ried various commands I found on google etc , but none work , any ideas?
[11:41] <penguin42> that shouldn't happen - it should only be every so often
[11:41] <penguin42> unless you're not shutting down properly?
[11:42] <penguin42> BluesKaj: The normal thing to use is tune2fs -C and -i
[11:43] <BluesKaj> no , penguin42 it happened after I tested a text to speech app , that had a glitch and ran it from the TTY, ...tune2fs set at -1 but it makes no difference
[11:43] <penguin42> -1 ? Should be 0 -   tuen2fs -c 0 -i 0
[11:45] <penguin42> but if it happened after something bad, I'd boot from a cd/thumb and do an fsck and see if it gives any moans
[11:48] <BluesKaj> tune2fs -c 0 -i 0 , gives whole lot of suggestions showing various options , like the command wasn't finished
[11:48] <penguin42> tune2fs -c 0 -i 0 /dev/sdwhatever
[11:52] <BluesKaj> Setting interval between checks to 0 seconds ...??
[11:52] <penguin42> yeh, I think that means don't bother
[11:53] <BluesKaj> not to check
[11:54] <BluesKaj> ok , rebooting , to make sure
[11:59] <penguin42> ><breakfast
[12:10] <BluesKaj> nope , I even treid the command from the other drive , but no change ...the hdd is till being checked everytime I boot in
[12:11] <BluesKaj> tune2fs seems to have absolutely no effect
[12:21] <BluesKaj> unmounted the drives and did the tune2fs thing , not effective , as if the there's some other setting that's overwrting or over riding the tune2fs settings
[12:22] <Pici> BluesKaj: is there a /forcefsck file?
[12:22] <BluesKaj> Pici, let me check
[12:25] <BluesKaj> no /forcefsck file in /
[12:36] <penguin42> BluesKaj: What happens if you unmount, and do a full fsck ?
[12:45] <BluesKaj> fsck.ext2: Device or resource busy while trying to open /dev/sda m Filesystem mounted or opened exclusively by another program?
[12:49] <BluesKaj> this is after unmounting the sda drive , I'm on the main drive which is sdb , these are not partitions , I use 2 hdds on this pc  , this main drive has 12.04 installed on it and the one deignated as sda (for some unknown reason) has the constant diskccheck , with 12.10 installed
[14:35] <peterrus> what would be the foremost reason that my /sys/class/drm/ folder only contains 'version' and not 'card0' like it did a few days ago when running a fully updated quantal?
[14:36] <peterrus> I cant seem to pinpoint the problem
[14:41] <penguin42> what type of card?
[15:04] <peterrus> penguin42: intel HD4000
[15:18] <penguin42> peterrus: Can you pastebin the output of dmesg? and perhaps also your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[15:19] <peterrus> penguin42: yes, I am currently reinstalling though, but this will likely give the same results, when I am there i will
[15:19] <peterrus> should not take too long (ssd)
[15:21] <penguin42> ok, no rush
[15:22] <peterrus> just in case I am doing very strange:
[15:22] <peterrus> I reinstall quantal from the alpha 2 cd
[15:22] <peterrus> and then I will look if that folder is populated
[15:23] <peterrus> i noticed that when its not, I can´t change my screens brightness
[15:23] <peterrus> and waking from suspend does not turn the screen on
[15:29] <BluesKaj> ok , fixed the constant fsck when booting up , the "pass" entry value in fstab was set to to 2 , instead of 1 or 0 . How that happened is beyond me.
[15:37] <peterrus> penguin42, ok, just after the installation everything works fine
[15:37] <penguin42> peterrus: Oh well
[15:37] <peterrus> however I need to update for my brightness slider to work,so I will do that
[15:37] <peterrus> and then it probably goes wron
[15:37] <peterrus> lets try
[15:37] <penguin42> BluesKaj: However, even with it set to 2 I don't see why it does that?
[15:38] <peterrus> penguin42, should I do a dist-upgrade or a upgrade?
[15:40] <peterrus> pretty sure I should dist-upgrade
[15:41] <peterrus> but I can always do that later, so upgrade first, reboot, check if it works, and then dist-upgrade
[15:44] <penguin42> peterrus: I tend to do dist-upgrades during the alpha processes
[15:44] <philinux> Have you guys seen the new nautilus
[15:45] <philinux> Updates came through today
[15:45] <IdleOne> you mean http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/07/new-look-nautilus-lands-in-ubuntu-12-10-not-qui
[15:46] <philinux> Yep
[15:48] <IdleOne> someone was asking if we were going to get the new nautilus yesterday in another channel. looks like we are
[15:49] <philinux> 3.5.4 turned up today it crashed a couple of times so far
[15:49] <philinux> or refused to start
[15:53] <peterrus> philinux: probably having the same issues
[15:54] <philinux> I love testing
[15:55] <peterrus> philinux: at the moment I dont XD as quantal is the only thing that properly works on my new laptop xD
[15:55] <penguin42> peterrus: What's your hardware?
[15:55] <peterrus> Asus Zenbook UX32VD
[15:55] <philinux> peterrus: ah then that could be problematic
[15:55] <peterrus> ivy bridge i5, intel HD4000 + Geforce 610m
[15:56] <penguin42> spangly
[15:56] <penguin42> peterrus: How does PP fail?
[15:56] <peterrus> pp?
[15:56] <philinux> 12.04
[15:57] <peterrus> no way to set the brightness, and I cant seem to get DRM working either
[15:57]  * penguin42 thinks I saw one of those in a shop yesterday - nice big trackpad
[15:57] <peterrus> its all really random, I have tested so much configurations now that I kinda forgot
[15:57] <BluesKaj> penguin42, here's the explanation I found, http://everyjoe.com/technology/explanation-the-fstab-file/
[15:57] <peterrus> penguin42: yes, I absolutely love the hardware, coming from a macbook
[15:58] <penguin42> peterrus: My best guess with that hardware is the way it's got the mixed intel/nvidia hybrid graphics - that's generally hard to get working properly; normally the problem is something like it deciding to use the other graphics card some of the time, so the driver for the other doesn't start - but I've not had a chance to play with that type of hybrid graphics
[15:58] <peterrus> penguin42: I use bumblebee to turn of the nvidia card
[15:58] <peterrus> this works
[15:58] <penguin42> ok
[15:59] <peterrus> there is currently no way to actually use it, but I dont really care at the moment
[15:59] <penguin42> sometimes the bioses have ways of disabling them as wel
[15:59] <peterrus> as long as I get vga + hdmi working
[15:59] <peterrus> this one doesn´t :(
[15:59] <penguin42> hmph, not nice of it
[15:59] <peterrus> its a EFI actually XD
[15:59] <peterrus> not a bios
[15:59] <penguin42> yeh
[16:00] <peterrus> so well, after the upgrade everything still works, however, no unity, I can start it, but no taskbar nor launcher appears, when I start unity 2D everything seems fine though
[16:00] <peterrus> so lets go for the dist-upgrade
[16:00] <penguin42> that sounds like the intel graphics isn't too happy
[16:00] <penguin42> but I'm on KDE not unity on my QQ setup, so I don't know the current state
[16:01] <penguin42> peterrus: You said you needed to use bumblebee to disable the nvidia; that's not in the repos - so you had to get that from somewhere?
[16:01] <peterrus> least of my trouble now ;)
[16:01] <peterrus> penguin42: correct, from their ppa, and it is only released for precise so I had to do some sources.list hackery, but It is not installed at the moment,
[16:02] <peterrus> trying to pinpoint the problem, so that will be one of the last steps I take
[16:02] <peterrus> I also got some kernel panics along the way, hope I can track the source of them too
[16:02] <penguin42> peterrus: ok, try and keep notes - if something like that is a required to get QQ to work on your hardware it would be good to flag a bug early
[16:03] <peterrus> penguin42: yes, I have no idea what to report and what not, so if you see something coming along, please tell me
[16:04] <peterrus> there is also a nasty dkms ´patch´ I need to install for the asus-wmi module to get some functionkeys working on the keyboard (keyboardbacklight, trackpad disable, and sound volume)
[16:04] <peterrus> so something I will install as last step as well, to not taint my installation with non QQ stuff
[16:04] <penguin42> peterrus: If anything doesn't work out of the box report it
[16:04] <peterrus> ok
[16:05] <peterrus> making notes
[16:05] <penguin42> peterrus: Add a comment to say how you worked around it
[16:05] <peterrus> will do
[16:05] <peterrus> in the bumblebee case there probably already is bug
[16:07] <peterrus> ah, dist-upgrade installs a new kernel
[16:10] <penguin42> peterrus: OK, worth checking, and hey if you get it all sorted out you might want to put a blog/comemnt on a help page/something saying everything you needed to do to get that model to work
[16:10] <penguin42> for the next guy along
[16:10] <peterrus> penguin42: yes i am already logging al my findings in a thread, and when I find a reproducable way I will document it
[16:10] <penguin42> cool
[16:11] <peterrus> thread @ http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2005999
[16:11] <penguin42> peterrus: Your kernel oopses; are they going to log files that you can report, or they just landing on the screen ?
[16:11] <peterrus> penguin42: just on the screen, I can take pictures though
[16:11] <peterrus> well the system still booted, that is new
[16:11] <penguin42> yeh, I'd be happy to look at pictures of them and see if I can think of anything
[16:12] <peterrus> and /sys/class/drm is still populated
[16:12] <peterrus> going to do a full root backup first
[16:13] <peterrus> unity also works again
[16:13] <peterrus> so that is good
[16:13] <penguin42> peterrus: Cool - obviously QQ is in alpha and anything may or may not break at any moment; so hold on to your hat :-)
[16:14] <peterrus> so now its time for the non QQ stuff
[16:14] <peterrus> I will start with nvidia-current + bumblebee
[16:52] <peterrus> alright, nvidia current broke nothing
[16:52] <peterrus> so all ubuntu QQ stuff works
[16:52] <peterrus> another backup and then try bumblebee
[17:38] <peterrus> wow
[17:38] <peterrus> it survived bumblebee
[17:38] <peterrus> this is getting good
[20:56] <penguin42> is anyone else having problems with hierarchical list widgets in gtk apps? The ones which you're supposed to click on a > to open the subtree - there being very difficult to open for me
[20:57] <penguin42> oh, it's oxygen-gtk's mess
[21:05] <penguin42> right, that's bug 1026328
[23:13] <atari2600a> maybe this channel'd be more helpful
[23:13] <atari2600a> anyone know when alien arena 7.60 is hitting ubuntu repos
[23:13] <atari2600a> also
[23:13] <atari2600a> um
[23:13] <atari2600a> good luck with that wayland shipping in 12.10
[23:14] <atari2600a> I mean, it's not gonna happen but good luck :P
[23:14] <penguin42> atari2600a: Is 7.60 in debian yet?
[23:14] <atari2600a> not sure
[23:14] <atari2600a> but it was released about 12 days ago
[23:15] <penguin42> ok, so I think it's a 1st not until it's in debian
[23:15] <atari2600a> no the one on the debian servers is even older
[23:15] <penguin42> and it looks like it's missed the DebianImportFreeze (that was July 5th)
[23:16] <penguin42> atari2600a: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
[23:16] <atari2600a> it's not a debian project...
[23:16] <atari2600a> I don't know whether you're over or under thinking this
[23:16] <trism> it can still be synced manually if debian updates soon
[23:17] <penguin42> atari2600a: but most packages in Ubuntu come through debian (there are some exceptions - I don't know about alien-arena specifically)
[23:18] <penguin42> looks to me like the ubuntu one is exactly the same as the debian one, so I expect it is going that route
[23:18] <atari2600a> debian hasn't updated the package in months/years though it looks like
[23:18] <atari2600a> it's not debian's thing to update third-party packages
[23:18] <penguin42> debian sid is on 7.53
[23:19] <atari2600a> that's why debian users are the ones grooming their neckbeards:  it's all about adding other repos
[23:19] <penguin42> atari2600a: So you can submit a bug to ask for an update to one or both of the ubuntu bug or debian bug systems
[23:20] <penguin42> ....and anyway, this beard is just fine
[23:20] <atari2600a> that reminds me my goatee is starting to look disney villian-y
[23:20] <atari2600a> gotta go


[16:58] <athos> cpaelzer: hey! Any ideas on why https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgresql-12 does not show https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgresql-14/+bug/1996770 ?
[16:58] -ubottu:#ubuntu-server- Launchpad bug 1996770 in postgresql-12 (Ubuntu Focal) "New upstream microreleases 10.23, 12.13 and 14.6" [High, In Progress]
[16:58] <athos> in #1996770 pg-12 ans pg-10 also show a lighter color
[16:58] <athos> :|
[16:59] <athos> Cc sergiodj
[17:52] <sarnold> athos: bugs against a source package that are targeted to a specific release don't show up on those lists. (that makes it very easy to overlook them.) I'm afraid I don't know if there's a way to find them or not
[18:03] <athos> Oh, I see! Thanks, sarnold!
[18:06] <rbasak> athos: that's a pretty screwed up bug state :-/
[18:06] <rbasak> There's a bug in Launchpad that if you delete a bug task, it can't be readded. So in general we avoid deleting bug tasks and mark them Invalid instead.
[18:07] <ahasenack> even mangling the url doesn't get me there: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgresql-10/+bug/1996770
[18:07] -ubottu:#ubuntu-server- Launchpad bug 1996770 in postgresql-12 (Ubuntu Focal) "New upstream microreleases 10.23, 12.13 and 14.6" [High, In Progress]
[18:07] <rbasak> Like sarnold said, by default the listings only show bugs that are open against the development release
[18:07] <ahasenack> it changes back to postgresql-14
[18:07] <rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+source/postgresql-12
[18:07] <rbasak> That works
[18:08] <rbasak> You have to know to ask for a specific release in the URL.
[18:08] <rbasak> Normally you can also do an advanced search and include "Fix Released" or "Invalid" or whatever, but in this case those tasks have been deleted so I don't think that'll work.
[19:19] <sarnold> I'm sure I've forgotten this "specific release" thing at least twice now. I know I've forgotten that it's a thing entirely a few times as well :)
[20:10] <cpaelzer> athos: because I only added a task for postgresql-12 via LP commandline, but no one ever added the source package itself
[20:11] <cpaelzer> athos: I added postgresql-12 (to demonstrate the case) and no it is no more greyed out


[10:15] <Skuggen> How is apparmor set up for dep8 testing?
[11:08] <cking> i'm seeing gawk segfaults on xenial gawk ppc64el, 1:4.1.3+dfsg-0.1, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gawk/+bug/1838014 - this is a regression for sure
[13:17] <rbasak> coreycb: heads up on a nova dep8 failure
[13:17] <rbasak> ERROR 1064 (42000) at line 2: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'IDENTIFIED BY 'changeme'' at line 1
[13:18] <rbasak> That's because MySQL 8.0 has deprecated and removed the use of IDENTIFIED BY in a GRANT statement
[13:18] <coreycb> rbasak: thanks, is that eoan?
[13:18] <rbasak> The user's password has to be set during CREATE USER or with ALTER USER.
[13:18] <rbasak> coreycb: yes - the MySQL 8 transition is now in progress
[13:18] <coreycb> rbasak: right ok thanks we'll take a look
[13:19] <rbasak> We will get to it if you don't, but we have rather a long list of fixes to make right now :-/
[13:20] <rbasak> coreycb: let me know if you do look into it and hit anything else. I vaguely know of all the MySQL 8 breaking changes.
[13:21] <coreycb> rbasak: ok thank you
[15:36] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: oh, one more thing
[15:36] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: we're staging patches at https://code.launchpad.net/~mysql-ubuntu/+git/mysql-8.0-transition
[15:36] <rbasak> Since most packages aren't imported into git-ubuntu, we can't use MPs
[15:37] <rbasak> Feel free to push directly there when ready
[15:46] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: perfect!
[15:46] <rafaeldtinoco> tks
[16:13] <bdmurray> How could I figure out why / how a systemd service has been disabled?
[16:16] <bdmurray> vorlon: ^?
[16:23] <vorlon> bdmurray: uh grep -r
[16:29] <bdmurray> vorlon: ?
[16:34] <vorlon> bdmurray: figuring out how/why it's been disabled, well, anything could've done it including a user, so if the user didn't do it you have to look around the system in all the places software might be running that would manipulate the state of the systemd units
[16:35] <vorlon> grep -r systemd.*$unit_name /var/lib/dpkg/info ?
[16:36] <bdmurray> vorlon: I'm the user and don't think I did it. Strangely whoopsie is active but disabled
[16:36] <vorlon> huh
[16:36] <vorlon> what's the output of systemctl status whoopsie?
[16:36] <bdmurray> and I don't see anything in journalctl strange since my most recent reboot which was this morning
[16:40] <bdmurray> Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/whoopsie.service; disabled; vendor preset: enabled)
[16:40] <bdmurray> vorlon: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Xpnk4rDHKk/
[16:53] <vorlon> bdmurray: ok; that state can be reproduced by running 'systemctl disable whoopsie' on a system that has the whoopsie service running
[16:53] <vorlon> but that doesn't say what did this
[16:58] <bdmurray> hrm, there are some bugs where I think people are having the same issue
[17:07] <vorlon> bdmurray: how did you come to notice it?  especially given that the service only started 1h43m prior to the pastebin
[17:10] <bdmurray> vorlon: "Here's a litte story I've got to tell..." so cinnamon-settings crashed and I clicked continue on the crash report and nothing happened and I remembered bug 1814611 (b/c I got an email about it this morning) and then I looked and didrocks MP from a while ago (https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/apport/whoopsie-auto-ui/+merge/348479) and then I saw the call to 'sytemctl is-enabled
[17:10] <bdmurray> whoopsie.service' so I tried that.
[17:11] <bdmurray> Maybe is-active is a better check but regardless I wonder what's going on.
[17:11] <vorlon> huh
[17:12] <vorlon> so is-active will return false if the service has recently crashed and is in the process of restarting; is-enabled will return false in your present situation
[17:12] <vorlon> depends whether you're trying to check state (is-active) or intent (is-enabled)
[17:46] <juliank> Maybe someone here has an idea:
[17:46] <juliank> swift post "moo" works, but the script does not: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8s8smBRVwQ/
[17:46] <juliank> it's using the same environment variables?
[17:52] <juliank> ah
[17:53] <juliank> swift command-line client is using OS_ variables
[17:53] <juliank> and there's a typo somewhere
[18:05] <connor_k> Aside from putting together some kind of scraper, is there a way to view all the child wiki pages descending from a single wiki page root on the ubuntu wiki? I.e., all pages descending from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/
[18:06] <connor_k> using the search menu for something like Kernel/ gets me close, but it's paginated and I suspect it's matching a number of pages that are not specifically descended from the root one
[18:43] <sarnold> connor_k: oh god that sounds terrible. the wiki is SO SLOW scraping a subset will take an absolute eternity
[18:43] <connor_k> sarnold, actually launchpad was surprisingly spry today
[18:44] <connor_k> i did this horrible thing to accomplish what I wanted: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/z4cxXqw8Q5/
[18:44] <connor_k> ^ certainly not intended to be an actual solution for anyone else, I'm basically throwing that script away lol
[18:45] <sarnold> connor_k: hah, cool :) how long did that thing take?
[18:45] <connor_k> sarnold, about 10 seconds to get the ~270ish results I was interested in
[18:46] <sarnold> nice