[14:14] <ppisati> reboot
[15:42]  * ogasawara back in 20
[15:43] <diwic> bjf, latest update for c-o-t-d 2.6.38 seems to have been 2011-05-05
[15:43] <bjf> diwic, that was the first and only, was waiting feedback
[15:44] <diwic> bjf, aha
[15:44] <bjf> diwic, i can fire off another if desired
[15:45] <diwic> bjf, if it's simple, please do
[15:45] <bjf> diwic, will do
[15:53] <diwic> bjf, meanwhile I installed the package and it seems to work fine, so I think you're good to go for enabling daily builds for Natty as well
[15:53] <bjf> diwic, just uploaded a new one, thanks for the feedback, will start doing them automatically
[15:55] <diwic> bjf, thanks!
[15:57] <bjf> diwic, added, if you see any issues with it now, don't hesitate to mention it/them
[16:38] <JFo> bjf, how would I add that kernel call to my collection?
[16:38] <JFo> I tried by the URL, but no joy
[16:38] <JFo> and I am too stupid just now to figure it out :)
[16:38] <bjf> um, one sec
[16:40] <hggdh> bjf, sconklin: I do not see any pending karmic kernel to be tested. Am I missing something?
[16:41] <bjf> hggdh, looks like someone went ahead and promoted the karmic kernel to updates
[16:41] <bjf> skaet, ^
[16:41] <skaet> bjf, hggdh,  looks like we have a process failure then.
[16:41] <skaet> :P
[16:42] <hggdh> well, we can still go ahead and validate it, just in case
[16:42] <skaet> hggdh,  please do so.
[16:42] <bjf> JFo, did you get some notice about that calendar? i just added you to the share list
[16:42] <skaet> I'll take this up with pitti and see if we can figure out what happened.
[16:43] <hggdh> k
[16:43]  * JFo looks
[16:43] <JFo> bjf, looks like it just showed up in my main calendar now. Thank you :)
[16:44] <bjf> JFo, np
[16:44] <skaet> hggdh,  please let me know if there's any problems with it, soonest.
[16:45]  * apw pops out to get a replacement hdmi cable
[16:50] <bjf> ogasawara, we going to do a status meeting this week ?
[16:51] <ogasawara> bjf: yep, that's the plan
[16:52] <bjf> ogasawara, always good to have a plan, do we have a list of blueprints we are going to be tracking ?
[16:52] <ogasawara> bjf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs
[16:53] <bjf> ogasawara, we're going to want all of them on the agenda or you want me to pick the ones I think are relevant?
[16:54] <ogasawara> bjf: I'd only pick out the relevant ones.
[16:54] <bjf> ogasawara, ack
[17:06] <bjf> ogasawara, i've updated the meeting agenda, most of the blueprints are for you, let me know if there are others you think should be added
[17:06] <ogasawara> bjf: ack
[17:10] <ogasawara> bjf: I'm gonna move the one work item from the misc blueprint to the server-reqs blueprint and then we can just drop the misc blueprint from the agenda
[17:12] <bjf> ogasawara, wfm
[17:43]  * apw notes that plugging and unplugging hdmi outputs on intel leads to crashes :/
[17:46] <jjohansen> apw: is that with the latest intel driver?
[17:56] <apw> jjohansen, with whatever is latest in natty
[17:56] <apw> now on a .39 kernel shall see if its any better
[17:56] <jjohansen> apw: ah there where some hdmi improvements in the latest intel drm tree, not sure what made it into .39 though
[17:58] <apw> jjohansen, ok will see how this pans out
[19:06] <JFo> ogasawara, just saw your response :-)
[19:11] <ogasawara> JFo: pick a time when you want to start your kernel patching and git-fu, I'll put it in my schedule.  not sure it'll require a full hour each week, but we should just start
[19:11] <BenC> Any chance that bug #424142 will get fixed in lucid's kernel?
[19:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 424142 in linux "Address Collision" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424142
[19:11] <BenC> I've just had a couple customers get bit by it, upgrading them to maverick kernel fixed it
[19:13] <JFo> ogasawara, right, my hope is that some of these will taper off and not be needed.
[19:14] <JFo> just wanted to get them started and indicate how serious I am about them to everyone :)
[19:16] <BenC> I suspect no, since linux-lts-backports-maverick is available
[19:19] <ogasawara> BenC: if it came through the next 2.6.32.y upstream longterm release, it'd get applied to Lucid.  or use the backports kernel.
[19:21] <BenC> ogasawara: No chance of someone actively searching for the fix? Isn't 2.6.32.y inactive? :)
[19:22] <ogasawara> BenC: I thought <IP_ADDRESS> just came out, was that the last one?  /me hasn't been following
[19:22] <BenC> wait, I didn't realize upstream was maintaining longterm kernels now, so hopefully they do a 2.6.32.y to fix it
[19:24] <bjf> BenC, GregKH still maintains .32
[19:25] <sforshee> BenC, ogasawara: looks like the fix was in 2.6.33 (commit 8c8def26) so it just never made its way to stable
[19:25] <BenC> Right, I knew it was fixed in 2.6.33, was just hoping for some love in lucid, even if 2.6.32.y isn't getting it upstream
[19:26] <sforshee> I'm just saying that if we wait for it to show up in .32 stable it's never going to happen
[19:26] <BenC> That's exactly what I'm saying :)
[19:27] <bjf> sforshee, you want to do an SRU for it?
[19:28] <sforshee> bjf, sure, I'll try to get some testing on it first to make sure it really fixes the problem
[19:28] <bjf> sforshee, that looks like a reasonable candidate
[19:28] <bjf> wfm
[19:29] <bjf> sforshee, looks like BenC might be able to help test :-)
[19:29] <BenC> Customers gave me sudo access to the affected machine, so I plan to abuse it as much as possible...
[19:30] <ogasawara> hehe
[19:30] <BenC> if you get something testable, I'm happy to toss it on there
[19:30] <sforshee> BenC, I'll post a kernel to the bug report shortly, then I'll submit it for SRU as soon as you can get it verified
[19:31] <bjf> sforshee, not a rush, just information, if you can get a fix verified soonish, we are prep'ing kernels for the next cadence cycle
[19:31] <sforshee> bjf, ack
[19:32] <BenC> sforshee: ok, please ping me on here, launchpad traffic doesn't get through my usual filters
[19:33] <sforshee> BenC, will do. If you tell me whether you'll use a 32-bit or 64-bit kernel for testing I'll make sure the one you need is built first.
[19:34] <BenC> sforshee: Thanks, 32-bit
[19:43] <BenC> sforshee: this patch doesn't affect ABI, correct?
[19:43] <sforshee> bjf, would you be so kind as to accept the lucid nomination on bug #424142 ?
[19:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 424142 in linux "Address Collision" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424142
[19:44] <sforshee> BenC, it shouldn't
[19:44] <BenC> if it does, I would need to get the headers to fully test against this module
[19:44] <bjf> sforshee, you bet
[19:44] <BenC> sforshee, bjf: a huge thanks for the effort on this as well
[19:44] <bjf> BenC, np
[19:44] <sforshee> BenC, I'll give you the headers, but as it only changes a function body it shouldn't affect the abi at all
[19:45] <bjf> sforshee, done
[19:45] <sforshee> bjf, thanks
[19:45] <BenC> sforshee: I could have approved it for you :)
[19:53] <sforshee> BenC, 32-bit test build is posted at http://people.canonical.com/~sforshee/lp424142/2.6.32-32.62~lp424142v201105231936/
[19:54] <herton> bjf: can you approve nominations for bug 787145
[19:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 787145 in linux-ti-omap4 "CVE-2011-1494" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787145
[19:55] <bjf> herton, working it
[19:56] <bjf> herton, done
[19:56] <herton> thanks bjf
[19:56] <bjf> np
[20:26] <BenC> sforshee: ok, give me 30 minutes
[21:03] <BenC> sforshee: not stalling...this box doesn't boot unattended so I'm just waiting for some one to kick it
[21:03] <BenC> sforshee: I've at least smoke tested here locally, but not on a box that exhibits the problem
[21:07] <sforshee> BenC, cool, I've got everything ready to go for once we know it fixes the problem
[22:22] <BenC> sforshee: confirmed that it fixes the issue, and commented on the bug report
[22:26] <shankara>  hi all, i'm having a weird issue trying to reboot with linux 2.6.38 (x86_64), ubuntu LTS 10.04, this is on atom D525 - dual core atom
[22:26] <shankara> system hangs on restart with: "will now restart" and then "[<some varying number>] Restarting system"
[22:27] <shankara>  i've tried recompiling a variety of kernels
[22:27] <shankara> i've even compiled specifically for the atom, not using generic
[22:27] <shankara> same issue. but soft halt works fine
[22:27] <shankara> is this a known kernel support issue with atom dual core cpus ?
[22:28] <BenC> shankara: It sounds like an issue with the kernel you are compiling, like a panic, maybe related to your root filesystem
[22:28] <BenC> Sounds suspiciously like you are just compiling the kernel wrong
[22:29] <BenC> shankara: And specifically, it sounds like an issue you just have to figure out through more generic channels #kernelnewbies perhaps?) since it isn't an Ubuntu issue
[22:29] <shankara> BenC: i found this on the generic default kernel that  came with lts 10.0.4
[22:29] <BenC> You said it was 2.6.38
[22:29] <shankara> after a couple of binary kernels, i decided to compile my own
[22:29] <shankara> same issue
[22:29] <bjf> shankara, have your tried our lts-backport kernel?
[22:29] <shankara> that's the most recent kernel i tested
[22:30] <shankara> bjf: not yet, maybe i should
[22:30] <shankara> i only  resorted to source compiles after all the binary kernels in the apt repo gave me the same  soft reboot issue
[22:31] <BenC> shankara: Booting with single (so without quiet) would be more helpful
[22:31] <BenC> The reason for the panic might give some clues to the real problem
[22:32] <shankara> BenC: i'm inclined to the some clues to the real problem might provide a reason for the panic
[22:32] <shankara> actually ... i wouldn't say it's a panic
[22:32] <shankara> there's no "ooops"
[22:32] <BenC> I would say it is a panic
[22:32] <shankara> it jsut doesn't actually restart the hardware, just promises to
[22:32] <BenC> The "will not restart" message comes right after a panic
[22:32] <BenC> err "will now restart"
[22:33] <BenC> shankara: If it fails to exec /sbin/init or similar, it will panic
[22:33] <BenC> panic != BUG
[22:33] <shankara> Benc: yes, sorry: "Will now restart"
[22:33] <BenC> it means "oh crap, I don't know what to do next"
[22:34] <shankara> BenC: it actually get's past stopping all system services, unmounting all filesystems ... then it jsut doesn't , so it seems init runs it's full course
[22:34] <shankara> sorry "then it just doesn't restart the hardware"
[22:34] <BenC> shankara: Do you mean it will actually boot, just not reboot?
[22:35] <shankara> it'll boot, it'll even halt. Just it wil not soft restart
[22:35] <shankara> ctrl-alt-delete has the same effect - no restart
[22:35] <BenC> Oh, I misread "trying to reboot with.." as "trying to reboot into..."
[22:35] <BenC> shankara: I have some tips for this problem...
[22:36] <shankara> yeah, it's a weird one
[22:36] <shankara> most people are trying to boot their boxes, I'm trying the opposite
[22:36] <shankara> restarting is critical for remote support on appliances
[22:37] <BenC> shankara: Try adding reboot=bios to your kernel command line
[22:37] <shankara> BenC: let me try that and get back to you
[22:37] <BenC> shankara: reboot=acpi might be worth trying too
[22:37] <shankara> ack.
[22:38] <sforshee> BenC, just sent SRU patch to kernel-team list, thanks for testing
[22:40] <BenC> sforshee: np, thank you for taking on the logistics to get it in an SRU
[22:43] <broder> is there anything i can do to accelerate getting help with bug 784335? i don't really have any kernel debugging-fu, but the machine in question isn't my primary machine and doesn't have any data on it, so i can re-install or re-configure it 10 ways to sunday if that helps
[22:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 784335 in linux "Heavy network utilization with r8169 leads to kernel panic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784335
[22:45] <BenC> broder: I would argue that r8169 is a horrid driver and would suggest you'd have better luck wedging an e1000 card in there :)
[22:45] <BenC> but I'm not the official spokesperson, so I digress
[22:47] <BenC> broder: a pic of the on-screen panic would help
[22:47] <broder> BenC: is the core dump not good enough?
[22:49] <BenC> broder: I'd have to set aside time to dig into that, perhaps later tonight
[22:55] <broder> if i were to go and play the role of the apport retracer, would that get the bug more attention?
[22:59] <shankara> BenC! you're a genius! reboot=acpi worked :D
[22:59] <shankara> thanks!
[23:02] <TheSeven> as some people seem to be awake currently, I'd like to re-ask my question from like a week ago: http://paste.ubuntu.com/612064/
[23:02] <TheSeven> any hints?
[23:04] <JFo> TheSeven, have you filed a bug?
[23:06] <TheSeven> no, as i don't have a clue what to file it against
[23:06] <TheSeven> this kinda seems to be an OMAP or ARM specific problem
[23:07] <TheSeven> but it doesn't seem like the OMAP guys would know what's the cause for it
[23:08] <TheSeven> so i'd like to check if there are any general hints for situations like this (some tunables maybe?)
[23:08] <JFo> so you would file it against linux which encompasses all of them and then I would go about determining if it was specific to one of them.
[23:09] <JFo> very simple process too... from a term run 'ubuntu-bug linux'
[23:09] <TheSeven> the maximum throughput being at a sub-sector block size and the fact that it happens both with USB and SD makes me think that this can't really be coming from the MMC/USB controller, but must be coming from some generic I/O code
[23:09] <JFo> presto! bug report! :-) How is that for the soul of ease? :)
[23:09] <JFo> very possible
[23:10] <JFo> but I would like to see the logging we collect from the bug report tool to dig a bit deeper.
[23:10] <JFo> so when it is behaving thus, if you could file that bug it would be most helpful
[23:20] <TheSeven> JFo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ti-omap4/+bug/787246
[23:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 787246 in linux-ti-omap4 "Slow SD card and USB HDD I/O for block sizes bigger than a couple of bytes" [Undecided,New]
[23:22] <broder> BenC: does http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/612078/ look like it has the information you wanted?
[23:22] <broder> i'm not super-familiar with digging around in vmcores
[23:41] <hggdh> smb: there?
[23:47] <jjohansen> hggdh: its pretty late in the day for smb to be here (00:47) for him
[23:48] <hggdh> jjohansen: yeah, I had just remembered he is UTC+1 or 2...
[23:48] <hggdh> jjohansen: perhaps you -- I am unable to boot the curretn maverick proposed on AWS, i386/m1.small
[23:49] <jjohansen> ugh, I can have a look
[23:51] <hggdh> jjohansen: what do you need?
[23:52] <jjohansen> hggdh: hrmm, nothing just yet.  I will boot an m1.small and install a proposed kernel and try to duplicate, and go from there
[23:53] <jjohansen> hggdh: actually, which region/zone, and even machine type if you can get that info
[23:53] <hggdh> jjohansen: OK. What I did -- what I always do --: I booted the current AWS Maverick, then run a dist-upgrade with -proposed enabled
[23:53] <jjohansen> hggdh: right, I think I will be a little more selective and just pull the kernel
[23:54] <hggdh> jjohansen: ec2-run-instances ami-b21de3db --instance-type m1.small --region us-east-1


[01:47] <Unit193> Rhonda: Right now, you can't eliminate it entirely.  Debian uses the libval support while Ubuntu doesn't because some silly rules about irssi being in main and dnsval not.
[07:24] <reversib1ean> does running pbuilder-dist for the current working release instead of the development release speed up the download process?
[11:10] <Rhonda> Unit193: Oh, didn't know that part, thanks for mentioning it!
[11:10] <Unit193> Of course, though cutting down the delta is always nice.  I asked about that specific patch becaues vorlon refreshed and re-applied it.
[11:11] <Unit193> I experimented with the different patches, seemed to work fine.
[11:11] <Unit193> Erm, that is, series/ubuntu.series.
[11:30] <Rhonda> Can you publish that git somewhere so I can pull?  Or git format-patch and send it to me?
[11:31] <Unit193> I, err, lost it since .17 was published, rebased my stuff and that had no importance to me.  I can look into it again though.


[06:59] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:00] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:29] <daubers> Morning
[08:49] <daubers> So this is the year I get rid of 90% of my computing annoyances \o/
[08:50] <daubers> First thing on the list, get a decent keyboard
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> Decent as in not filled with crumbs and hairs? :P
[08:53] <daubers> MartijnVdS: As in I may go the whole hog and get a Das Keyboard :)
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> Scary :)
[08:53]  * MartijnVdS is happy with his MS "Wired 600" keyboard
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> it has a play/pause button!
[08:54] <daubers> I've got an aluminium apple thing that's ok, but annoys me as it doesn't *click*
[08:54] <MartijnVdS> mine doesn't click audibly
[08:54] <daubers> :(
[08:54] <MartijnVdS> but you can feel when it "takes"
[09:01] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:01] <MooDoo> and happy new year
[09:04] <dwatkins> hiya folks
[09:04] <dwatkins> It's so windy in Edinburgh, a lamp post has been blown over.
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> One of them, or a lot of them?
[09:10] <dwatkins> Just one, the police are blocking that lane on the roundabout.
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> Scotland has roundaboutitis as well?
[09:11] <dwatkins> Unfortunately the BBC 'jamcam' isn't pointing the right way to see it.
[09:11] <dwatkins> Edinburgh bypass has many roundabouts, it's a long dual carriageway with sliproads.
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> they're starting to replace every crossing with roundabouts around here as well
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> We're at 80ish km/hr winds here atm
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://estofex.org/
[09:13] <dwatkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/edinburghandeastscotland/trafficcameras/ - many roundabouts on the bypass to be seen here if you zoom in, I'm at the junction of the A720 and the A71 at about 9 o'clock on this map.
[09:13] <dwatkins> yeah, it's pretty severe here.
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> http://buienradar.nl/wb.aspx?soort=wind&tijd=0 is also cool
[09:17] <dwatkins> I tend to use yr.no for weather news, it has a handy all-in-one graph: http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/hour_by_hour.html
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> Ooh
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> buienradar has something like that as well, but in a buggy layout
[09:18] <dwatkins> The image is at a consistent URL by the look of it, so you could set the background or have a webpage which updated every hour or so.
[09:19] <dwatkins> There's an Android app, but it's awful, sadly. I imagine a meta refresh tag in a piece of html would do much better
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: The image is a copy of the one issued by KNMI (Royal Dutch Meteorological Institute)
[09:19]  * dwatkins goes to knock one up
[09:19] <dwatkins> aha :)
[09:19] <dwatkins> I used to support KNMI's cluster, they have a lot of compute power there.
[09:20] <dwatkins> Looks like the police have moved the lamp post.
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> but.. it might be powered! health! safety! :P
[09:20] <dwatkins> indeed
[10:10] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy new year!
[10:10] <occupy64k> Happy new year
[10:10] <MooDoo> morning
[10:31] <bigcalm> Is +39 Germany?
[10:32] <dwatkins> nope
[10:32] <dwatkins> +39 is Italy, note that you should include the zero with Italian numbers
[10:33] <bigcalm> I'm unlikely to call it, just pondering an email from somebody wanting to use our services
[10:34] <dwatkins> who needs a telephone when there's VoiP, anyway? ;-)
[10:34] <gord> gord does! can't figure voip out
[10:34] <dwatkins> (I'm joking because there isn't yet a VoiP service that's universal and easy to use that isn't owned by MS)
[10:34]  * popey hugs voip
[10:34]  * popey hugs his cisco 7940
[10:35] <dwatkins> I like SIP, but there's no central repository, and no clear mechanism to call from one network to another that I'm aware of.
[10:35] <occupy64k> GNU Free Call?
[10:35] <daubers> dwatkins: The mechanism to call between networks is POTS :)
[10:35] <dwatkins> daubers: oh, that's a shame
[10:35] <dwatkins> I have a sipgate.co.uk account which has an incoming number in Reading, so my relatives can call me via a local number.
[10:36] <daubers> Though some voip providers do have a mechanism to go voip -> voip
[10:36] <popey> yeah, i have a sipgate number coming to my desk :D
[10:36] <popey> and a voip number from work
[10:36] <dwatkins> Skype is great in theory, but the whole supernode thing is a bit of a pain, and it's blocked in my office.
[10:36] <dwatkins> popey: do you use the Tandberg software to make all your phones ring, too?
[10:38] <gord> skype would be nice if the software was better, though i'd like google talk on my phone or something. have a data only simcard and do everything through that
[10:39] <dwatkins> I wonder if google will bring Voice over to the UK someday soon
[10:39] <gord> would be nice - or just make android -> android calls free or something ;)
[10:40] <daubers> Can you nto do that with hangouts?
[10:40] <daubers> or does that not work on android at the moment?
[10:40] <AlanBell> it kind of works, but is video as well as audio
[10:41] <AlanBell> and on speakerphone
[10:41] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:41] <dwatkins> I've not tried hangouts, sounds pretty good
[10:42] <gord> well ideally, it would be nice if when i go to make a call, if it see's that someone has a gmail email address associated or something and notes they are online somehow, it just runs through gtalk. we have gtalk right? not the phone numbers, but the ability to talk through google somehow
[10:42] <popey> dwatkins: no
[10:42] <dwatkins> gord: precisely, if you could do that, it would be great
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> gord: same with texting vs gtalk
[10:43] <gord> does the messaging thing have non text integration on android yet? i've not really looked at ICS. i hate the messaging app on android
[10:43] <stgraber> gord: n900 has that. Before I switched to my current Android phone I'd call or text someone and it'd ask me if I want to call them using phone/sip1/sip2/xmpp/skype and same for text
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> gord: no :(
[10:44] <stgraber> never could get the same kind of integration on Android ...
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> The integration could be done easily, I think... but you'd have to cope with people who don't have Android phones but who do use gtalk on the desktop
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> (and other exceptions)
[10:45] <gord> thats fine, there are already messaging applications that do that, its just that if i want to IM someone i have to use one application, but to text them i have to use another
[10:45] <stgraber> MartijnVdS: xmpp/gtalk has a flag saying "mobile" so you can already know if your contact is a phone or a computer
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> stgraber: true
[10:58] <daubers> So who hasn't seen emfcamp?
[10:58] <jutnux> Me. What is it?
[10:59] <bigcalm> What's that?
[10:59] <daubers> http://www.emfcamp.org/ <- some people trying to organise something like CCC in the uk :)
[11:00] <jutnux> Applied for it.
[11:01]  * popey joins #ukhackcamp
[11:03] <davmor2> morning all and a happy new year!
[11:04] <gord> davmor2! morning, what date did you set for the work room thingy again?
[11:05] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[11:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
[11:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: did you go for the same resolution as me to annoy czajkowski more in 2012?
[11:05] <jutnux> 1680x1050
[11:05] <jutnux> ?
[11:06] <Pendulum> davmor2: I see you go for resolutions you think you can attain
[11:06] <davmor2> gord: 26th
[11:06] <czajkowski> davmor2: *hugs* missed you too!!
[11:06] <Pendulum> rather than the bog standard ones that no one manages for more than a month
[11:06] <davmor2> Pendulum: I like to think I do :)
[11:07] <gord> awesome, adding to the calender :)
[11:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod I'm baaaaaaaaaccccccccckkkkkkkkkk!
[11:11] <dwatkins> happy new year all :)
[11:17] <jutnux> Happy new year ;-D
[11:18] <davmor2> happy new year dwatkins jutnux
[11:27] <mattt> morning morning
[11:27] <MooDoo> morning
[11:29] <jutnux> Morning
[11:36] <daubers> Hmm.... power is fluctuatin madly
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> Storm?
[11:37] <daubers> Yup
[11:37] <jutnux> Skyrim time \o/
[11:37]  * MartijnVdS shoots an arrow at jutnux' knee
[11:37] <gord> NO! no more of that
[11:37]  * daubers goes to get lunch while the power is being weird
[11:37] <gord> we left that behind in 2011
[11:37] <oimon> just rebooted my desktop PC because it's the start of a new year. how gratuitous of me...only 69 days uptime
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> gord: We did?
[11:38] <jutnux> oimon: Do you just hibernate?
[11:38] <oimon> jutnux: no, it's my work PC, i just leave it on all the time
[11:38] <jutnux> Oh right
[11:38] <oimon> feel bad cos it didn't need a reboot really
[11:38] <jutnux> My alarm failed to go off this morning
[11:38] <jutnux> Stupid Tune-In
[11:39] <oimon> the wind kept me awake..no alarm req'd
[11:39] <oimon> and i was excited to go back to work of course :)
[12:09] <oimon> should i be able to suspend my home PC which has an nvidia card and the proprietary drivers as installed by ubuntu 11.10? doesn't suspend for me
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> Proprietary drivers + suspend... I wish you luck :)
[12:10] <oimon> yeah ..:(
[12:10] <christel> it is seriously wet outside
[12:11] <MartijnVdS> christel: also, seriously windy
[12:11] <christel> (and in my porch, for some bizarre reason the wind is keeping my letter box open, which in turn is letting the rain in)
[12:11] <MartijnVdS> Duct tape \o/
[12:11] <oimon> porch
[12:13] <christel> but then i'd never get your love letters :(
[12:13] <popey> you need one of those brushes on the inside of the letter box slot
[12:14] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stylish-Letter-Box-Draught-Excluder/dp/B003D4YEQ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325592855&sr=8-1
[12:15] <oimon> i have the brishes but not the internal flap
[12:15] <christel> stylish even!
[12:15] <christel> i have an internal flap, whethere there are brushes inside it i dont know -- i am scared of the letter box thingie
[12:15] <oimon> the missis wants a porch though :(
[12:15] <davmor2> Man I hate coming back to work after a holiday Tooooooo many emails
[12:15]  * MartijnVdS has a flap with springs in it, so it won't open unless you REALLY try
[12:16] <oimon> most of my emails were from bacula who never sleeps
[12:16] <christel> i go all panick-y when people get stuck in it
[12:16] <christel> errr, things, not people
[12:16] <christel> because i never dare put my fingers in to pull stuff out
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> christel: People? In your mailbox? :)
[12:16] <christel> (we have post boxes back home in my country, thus i presume that the letter box is actually a monster mouth full of teeth!)
[12:16] <christel> MartijnVdS: :P
[12:16] <oimon> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111024023147AAK2hjs
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> We actually have a government standard(!) dictating the minimum sizes: 265mm x 32mm and between 0.6m and 1.8m above the ground
[12:18] <oimon> seen the raspberry pi auctions? they are doing well
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> they're auctioning RPis?
[12:18] <jutnux> How much are thye at the minute oimon?
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: £2k and £1k
[12:18] <oimon> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/raspberry_pi/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
[12:19] <oimon> follow @raspberry_pi on tw*tter
[12:19] <jutnux> Woah
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> oimon: "twitter" isn't a family-unfriendly word afaik ;)
[12:20] <oimon> i know the real reason the RPi is delayed...they spend all their time answering questions from numpties who won't read the FAQ
[12:20] <MartijnVdS> oimon: but one of their blog posts pointed me to sugru. The family loved that christmas present :)
[12:21] <oimon> this year i really want to move from twitter to g+ as most of my twitter people are probably RSSfeeds anyway
[12:21]  * MartijnVdS G+es
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> too bad nobody seems to read what I post there
[12:21] <gord> twitter got a bit too noisy for me and i'm a bit too lazy to prune it
[12:22]  * oimon adds MartijnVdS
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[12:23] <oimon> we should probably do a bit more g+ tarting in this irc
[12:24] <gord> http://gordallott.com/+ ;)
[12:24]  * oimon adds gord too
[12:24] <bigcalm> http://cuth.eu/+ </band_waggon_jumping>
[12:25] <gord> man, they really made html5 tags for everything

[12:27] <oimon> hopefully now it won't just be popey filling up my g+ feed
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> Yeah he's good at that :)
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> Together with AlanBell
[12:28] <AlanBell> I am not that verbose
[12:28] <AlanBell> follow fab for that
[12:29] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what happaned to the beard?!
[12:29] <popey> heh
[12:29] <oimon> fab scher? i unfgollowed him due to excessive trolling
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> oimon: too bad it's not trolling :(
[12:29] <AlanBell> bigcalm: a strong gust of wind blew it off
[12:30] <daubers> If you suffer from low blood pressure, I suspect following fab may be medically advisable
[12:30] <bigcalm> Did you use just for men? Your beard looked surprisingly dark compared to other visible hair... ;)
[12:30] <AlanBell> my hair is all dark brown I will have you know
[12:31] <popey> lies
[12:31] <oimon> a beard changes the face shape enormously
[12:31] <AlanBell> denial
[12:31] <bigcalm> Hehe
[12:32] <sammm> HazRPG: My hemmeroids are flaring up so badly and are so painful ATM. :(
[12:32] <bigcalm> Bye
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> \o
[12:32] <bigcalm> That's trolling
[12:33] <oimon> must be a mental issue
[12:36] <oimon> hmm gnome doesn't honour my preferred browser choice of chromium
[12:37] <BigRedS> did you tell it in all three places?
[12:38] <oimon> :(
[12:38] <oimon> no
[12:38] <oimon> just 2
[12:41] <oimon>  the Akash — which is the world’s cheapest tablet — has received 1.4 million pre-orders in just two weeks.That’s a rate of 100,000 customers for the $45 tablet every day and, according to Times of India, manufacturer Datawind is duly increasing its production capacity by opening three new factories to churn out more of the in-demand device.
[12:53] <BigRedS> it's *opening factories* based on one product's sales
[12:53] <BigRedS> blimey
[12:53] <BigRedS> I can't remember all three places. I presume you've done Gnome's preferences and update-alternatives?
[12:53] <BigRedS> oimon: ^
[13:01] <jutnux> I want an Akash :-(
[13:08] <popey> why?
[13:08] <popey> 2009 - Viglen
[13:08] <popey> 2010 - Joggler
[13:08] <popey> 2011 - Microserver
[13:08] <popey> 2012 - Akash ?
[13:09] <daubers> Tandoori restaurant?
[13:09] <oimon> what jutnux means is that he wants an expensive tablet but will settle for a cheapo one :)
[13:10] <oimon> BigRedS: done all 3 now..now i'm thinking the issue is application specific i.e. hotot and couple of others
[13:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> Happy New Year everyone.
[13:11] <BigRedS> oimon: ah, what was the third?
[13:11] <oimon> 2007 - asus eee pc
[13:11] <oimon> 2008 - ?
[13:12] <oimon> BigRedS: i checked in the actual browser prefs "i'm the default browser"
[13:12] <BigRedS> ohhh
[13:13] <jutnux> oimon: No :p, I just want to test it out ;)
[13:15] <oimon> just received my vmware ice scraper :-\
[13:16] <jutnux> my friend got an ebuyer one
[13:17] <oimon> when you're a valued customer of ebuyer you know things are getting bad
[13:21] <oimon> there's some good deals on unhealthy food right now in the shops
[13:22] <dwatkins> aren't there always? ;)
[13:23] <oimon> even better now that chrimstas is over and nobody wants to eat any more crisps and peanuts etc..except me
[13:23] <jutnux> I do :|
[13:24] <oimon> Desktop PCs and laptops using processors based on ARM Holdings Plc's architecture will account for 10 percent of total PCs by 2013, eroding demand for traditional processors using Intel Corp.'s chipsets, Morgan Stanley said Monday. The figure, which is higher than the 3.5 percent projected by International Data Corp. (IDC), will represent roughly 39 million PCs, excluding tablet computers, the U.S. investment bank said in a research note.
[13:24] <dwatkins> does that mean I can get an Archimedes? ;)
[13:25] <oimon> i'll sell you my A3000
[13:25] <dwatkins> :)
[13:25] <oimon> doesn't it have a weird vga port?
[13:26] <dwatkins> I didn't think it was VGA, I thought it was fairly proprietary like the BBC Micro's RGB port.
[13:26] <oimon> yeah
[13:27] <jutnux> Why do i eat at my desk :'(
[13:27] <jutnux> Now there are crums everywhere
[13:27] <jutnux> crumbs
[13:28] <dwatkins> crumbs!
[13:29] <popey> Crumbs!
[13:30] <oimon> my dad used to love saying crumbs and "stone the crows!"
[13:31] <gord> you dear. need a bib.
[13:31] <dwatkins> I often find myself using alternative words, e.g. "For fate's sake!"
[13:33] <MooDoo> "frak" :()
[13:34]  * dwatkins grins at MooDoo
[13:34] <oimon> anyone tried magic elves?
[13:34] <dwatkins> Great show, that.
[13:34] <oimon> chocolate with space dust inside
[13:34] <dwatkins> Does something happen if you rub them together, oimon?
[13:34] <dwatkins> We're all just stardust...
[13:38] <oimon> or "popping candy" as the USians call it
[13:39] <jutnux> popey: How is that Zoostorm PC working out for you?
[13:40] <popey> pretty good
[13:40] <popey> am on it right now
[13:40] <popey> it's quite cheap.
[13:40] <jutnux> Yeah I had a look
[13:40] <jutnux> By the way did the guys at bitfolk give you your referral bonus or whatever the heck it is?
[13:41] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/zoostorm.html
[13:41] <popey> thats lshw
[13:42] <oimon> how cheap?
[13:42] <jutnux> Quite
[13:42] <oimon> my nephew wants a PC capable of minecraft server
[13:43] <jutnux> oimon: http://www.ebuyer.com/251310-zoostorm-desktop-7873-1036
[13:44] <popey> oimon: i run minecraft server on a revo
[13:44] <oimon> 4gb ram?
[13:44] <popey> 3.something
[13:44] <oimon> yeah, my nephew has 2gb max allowed on his mobo.
[13:44] <oimon> pc is otherwise okayish
[13:45] <popey> how many people will connect to it?
[13:45] <oimon> not many i don't reckon
[13:45] <popey> 2GB should be fine
[13:45] <zleap> chat later
[13:45] <oimon> i would like to encourage him though as i would like him to start learning linux
[13:46] <jutnux> How old is he?
[13:46] <hamitron> afternoon peeps
[13:46] <hamitron> :)
[13:46] <oimon> 14/15
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> oimon: so.. 0.933333
[13:46] <oimon> ICT at school is poo, and is actually putting him off computers
[13:46] <jutnux> Hello ham
[13:47] <jutnux> oimon: Agreed. Stupid word processing :-(
[13:47] <popey> oimon: http://codeyear.com/ get him on that?
[13:47] <jutnux> I have to sit through it everyday.
[13:47] <oimon> and he lives too far from me to go round and show him cool stuff
[13:48] <oimon> i went round to fix his PC the other day, but for petrol costs i could have purchased a nvidia card from ebuyer for the same price
[13:48] <oimon> PCIe graphics card had blown..stripes on screen even in bios
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Install a robot, help him remotely using the robot arm as your avatar/proxy
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> oimon: THEN teach him how to make/control one of his own :)
[13:49] <oimon> what's codeyear? any language in particular?
[13:49] <jutnux> I think it is a web language
[13:49] <jutnux> Don't know though
[13:49] <popey> I think it starts with javascript
[13:49] <hamitron> oimon, computers are like maths imo, apply them to something someone is already interested in, and they will get interested
[13:50] <oimon> yeah...like getting minecraft server running
[13:50] <oimon> he is too interested in skyrim etc right now
[13:51] <hamitron> I was thinking, maybe music, cars or something
[13:51] <hamitron> games tend to encourage people to windows ;)
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> Computer games, distracting smart young people from coding since the 1970s ;)
[13:52] <oimon> i played 10 hrs of zelda since christmas day, that's quite impressive since i have no free time
[13:53] <hamitron> you "had" 10 hours until you loaded that game ;)
[13:53] <oimon> popey 2012 - playbook
[13:53] <popey> the what?
[13:53] <oimon> http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/02/blackberry-playbook-fire-sale-android-market-access-hack/
[13:53] <popey> I was being facecious ☺
[13:54] <oimon> still don't think people would buy the playbook if it was free
[13:54] <jutnux> I wish companies didn't sell PCs with OSs on as it bumps up the price
[13:54] <jutnux> and all I do is wipe it off and put Ubuntu on
[13:54] <BigRedS> you can get them without OSs
[13:54] <jutnux> I know but
[13:54] <popey> zoostorm sell naked computers
[13:54] <BigRedS> but the price isnt *that* much lower. Windows only costs ~£5 to the OEMs
[13:54] <popey> although mine came with windows 7
[13:54] <oimon> more like 35-50 BigRedS
[13:55] <BigRedS> oimon: Oh, fair enough.
[13:55] <oimon> or in my experience £64
[13:55] <hamitron> windows is "free" once you take into account crapware?
[13:56] <oimon> http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/remove-windows-tax-before-purchase-save-64/
[13:56] <jutnux> Either way it gets removed :P
[13:58] <jutnux> System76 is quite cheap though
[13:58] <hamitron> I sort of like an OS installed, to check everything is working though :)
[14:00] <directhex> windows is subsidized. in some cases it's cheaper than free for the OEM
[14:00] <hamitron> the MS tax on android devices annoys me more tbh
[14:00] <oimon> grrrr
[14:00] <smittix> Afternoon all
[14:01] <hamitron> even though I don't use android, just don't like someone getting something for nothing
[14:01] <hamitron> ;)
[14:02] <oimon> directhex: are you getting involved with eOS then?
[14:03] <directhex> hamitron, agreed
[14:03] <directhex> oimon, ?
[14:03] <oimon> directhex: wrong person woops :)
[14:10] <oimon> i'm really struggling to get back in the swing of things today after 3wks off
[14:11] <popey> slacker!
[14:12] <directhex> oimon, i've got a stack to get through
[14:12] <directhex> can't afford to slack
[14:12] <oimon> i finished a lot of tasks before the break so i have to work up the enthusiasm to find new ones that i'll enjoy
[14:13] <oimon> all the outstanding stuff is drudgery and paperwork
[14:13] <oimon> not v inspiring
[14:14] <jutnux> Brb, going to do a practice exam paper.
[14:16]  * daubers needs staff
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Hire some
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> daubers: the economy could use the boost :P
[14:17] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I'm trying too dammit!
[14:21] <hamitron> grrrrr
[14:21] <hamitron> first deliveries of the year, high speed winds and rain
[14:22]  * hamitron shivers
[14:23] <hamitron> oimon, paperwork actually seems rather appealing atm
[14:23] <hamitron> :)
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> it's raining so hard here, I can't see the next building.. about 150m away
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> also, wind
[14:24] <hamitron> not that bad here
[14:25] <hamitron> but not great motorcycling weather still
[14:25] <hamitron> ;)
[14:25] <oimon> suns just popped out
[14:25] <oimon> it's freezing in my office though
[14:26] <hamitron> I'm gonna get set off
[14:26] <hamitron> laters
[14:26] <hamitron> o/
[14:26]  * hamitron shivers some more
[14:30] <samantha> hello ubuntu-uk :)
[14:30] <samantha> happy new year
[14:31] <samantha> and now the the please help me bit
[14:31] <brobostigon> afternoonings samantha
[14:31] <brobostigon> welcome.
[14:31] <popey> my spidey-sense is tingling
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> popey-sense
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> *
[14:32] <samantha> i am trying to debug a script, but my syslog is spammed with not enough space in MgmtRing, MgmtRingFullCount=15103705!
[14:32] <samantha> can i disable logging for wifi? for a bit so i can debug my scripts?
[14:34] <samantha> hey brobostigon , thanks for the welcome
[14:34] <brobostigon> :)
[14:37] <oimon> /etc/rsyslog.d has config files, or alternatively send your logging to a different file.
[14:38] <samantha> good news oimon
[14:42] <samantha> yay i fixed it, well i 'right-clicked' network manager doh! and disable wireless was an option
[14:43] <samantha> omg tho :O the wireless log spam did suspend my cron jobs
[14:46] <samantha> oh puddle, it wasnt that
[14:49] <oimon> http://www.ie6countdown.com/ < over 25% of china are on ie6
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> their loss
[14:56] <oimon> although my touchpad running android is reporting an ipad ua string :)
[14:56] <directhex> most of china is running pirated XP, hence all the IE6
[14:59] <oimon> why would that restrict the browser version?
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> Because MS doesn't allow updates on pirated XP
[15:01] <oimon> oh
[15:01] <samantha> i may have to get xp :(, cant watch lovefilm streams now because of sliverlight
[15:02] <Darael> Tried moonlight?
[15:02] <samantha> yes
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> samantha: Why XP then? Win7 does silverlight too. And moonlight.
[15:02] <samantha> drm is not part of moonlight
[15:02] <Darael> Bah.
[15:02] <samantha> xp is zippy MartijnVdS
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> so is win7 on my machine :)
[15:03] <samantha> but you can by xp for 27 pence :O
[15:03] <samantha> *buy
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> legally?
[15:03] <Darael> Complain at lovefilm first, at least.
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> MS will stop updates for it in 2014
[15:04] <samantha> well i am sure its cheaper than win7
[15:04] <samantha> i have done Darael
[15:04] <samantha> and will continue to do so
[15:04] <oimon> netflix are coming to uk i believe
[15:04] <samantha> i heard its not getting revised on tnt MartijnVdS
[15:04] <gord> samantha, happen to have an xbox360 or a ps3 anywhere? i watch all my lovefilm on my ps3. would just quit lovefilm if i didn't have that. not worth fussing about with windows just to watch a movie
[15:04] <samantha> oh gord everyone tells me to buy an xbox
[15:05] <gord> oh don't buy an xbox for it, that would be silly ;)
[15:05] <davmor2> samantha: PS3 is better doubles as a blu-ray player too
[15:05] <samantha> lol it would be but, for chatting and stuffs and my daughter tells me to get skyrim
[15:06] <gord> i think ps3 is a nicer device to have, but you can get really basic xboxes for really cheep
[15:07] <oimon> or just switch to an alternate film streaming service
[15:07] <oimon> i can't remember the last film i watched
[15:08] <Darael> I'm in favour of the PS3, although I've still not forgiven Sony for removing the Other OS option, especially after they said they wouldn't.
[15:09] <davmor2> samantha: ps3 has skyrim too and there is a web browser for chat/twitter/facebook
[15:09] <directhex> the ps3 user interface is still junk. but microsoft have been making the 360 steadily worse, so it's almost as bad now
[15:10] <Darael> The PS3 /is/ the technically superior platform.
[15:11] <oimon> xbox hardware seems duff
[15:11] <samantha> as i havent had either, i am flumuxed, i hear you need to buy network access for xbox
[15:11] <oimon> i hear of a lot of broken consoles
[15:11] <davmor2> the only thing that erks me is that most games are still only 720p duh
[15:11] <oimon> samantha: true, xbox live is a paid service
[15:11] <samantha> poo
[15:11] <directhex> oimon, that's pretty much a resolved issue
[15:11] <samantha> so i should get a ps3
[15:11] <directhex> davmor2, or less. on both consoles
[15:11] <directhex> Darael, that's still not entirely true
[15:12] <oimon> directhex:not the ring of death but some other faults.  my bro in law suffered a fail on the november update. MS replaced the console without admitting liability explicitly
[15:12] <Darael> directhex: It was the last time I checked, which was, admittedly, quite some time ago.
[15:12]  * jutnux got 31/A* on that mock \o/
[15:12] <directhex> Darael, the ps3 hardware is unbalanced and hard to program effectively, which neuters the areas where it's better
[15:13] <Darael> A fair point, actually.
[15:14]  * oimon has a wii :-\
[15:14] <MooDoo> oimon: me too :D
[15:14] <oimon> MooDoo: got skyward sword?
[15:17] <directhex> i've got a wii, a ps3 and a 360
[15:18] <directhex> i'd say they all have their good points, but i'd be lying. the wii is a wii.
[15:18] <jutnux> 360 \o/
[15:18] <jutnux> The Wii is good for new years
[15:18] <MooDoo> oimon: no not got many games really
[15:18] <samantha> so, with the ps3 you dont need to buy anything like xboxlive to watch lovefilm?
[15:18] <directhex> our party console is the ps3. all the singstars & guitar heroes etc
[15:18] <directhex> samantha, no. you need to pay for lovefilm though obviously
[15:19] <jutnux> I have Singstar on the Wii, I think.
[15:19] <brobostigon> the closest i have to a games console, is my old sinclair spectrum.
[15:19] <oimon> i don't have a flash tv either
[15:19] <oimon> it's a CRT
[15:19] <samantha> yes directhex thanks, i watched the girl who kicked the hornets nest, it was great then lovefilm sent an email saying linux will no longer be supported from 2012, booo!
[15:26] <gord> davmor2, kinda funny, most games are actually way less than 720p, they run internally at 500->600p - we aren't much higher than the good old playstation days really ;)
[15:29] <davmor2> gord: indeed which is shocking really when you know you have at least 720p minimum pretty much
[15:29] <gord> davmor2, well, its just been too long since the hardware got bumped, can't do a lot with the kinda gpus they have
[15:31] <samantha> xbox =$145, ps3=$180 and wii=$99, no pound symbol
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> £
[15:31] <samantha> MartijnVdS, show off :p
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> samantha: I also have € :)
[15:31] <samantha> easy tiger!
[15:31] <samantha> lol
[15:32] <Darael> I've got an Indian Rupee sign somewhere, but I think I have to enable it.
[15:32] <Darael> And since it's a reasonably recent addition to Unicode there's no guarantee it'd render.
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> ₨ ?
[15:32] <popey> golly, xbox is 180 odd on amazon
[15:33] <samantha> i looked at game.co.uk popey
[15:33] <bigcalm> Synergy won't send £ (and other chars). So I have a habbit of saying quid :)
[15:34] <gord> huh, just noticed a little speaker icon next to my google search box, seems i can search by talking at google now
[15:34] <MartijnVdS> you can, if you have amic
[15:35] <gord> popey, they have a bunch of different versions of xbox, some much cheaper than others, but like you get a massive 4gb hard drive or something
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> gord: Massive 4GB?
[15:35] <gord> i was being sarcastic, ignore me
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> as opposed to the massive 300GB one in the PS3 :)
[15:36] <samantha> what monitor port is there on ps3? my display has analog and dvi
[15:36] <gord> hdmi and composite
[15:36] <Darael> Bah, the 60 gig was the best PS3.  Had an Emotion Engine in it, for full PS2 support, and stuff.  User-upgradeable HDD, too.
[15:36] <samantha> oh
[15:36] <gord> component even
[15:36] <Darael> HDMI is the same format as DVI.
[15:37] <Darael> One can get a simple adaptor that'll do the job, IIRC.
[15:37] <gord> well no, not quite
[15:37] <gord> if the monitor doesn't support the drm, you won't be able to play blurays
[15:37] <Darael> Have to make separate arrangements for audio, though.
[15:37] <Darael> Ah, yes.  That.  Bugrit.
[15:37] <samantha> that sucks gord
[15:38] <oimon> that's outrageous
[15:38] <samantha> maybe with sopa pipa and now sliverlight i should boycott Hollywood all together
[15:38] <oimon> and the fact that their films are lame
[15:38] <gord> most monitors do support the hdmi drm to be honest, its just something to check
[15:39] <samantha> when i installed moonlight my system informed me the software could access all files on my computer
[15:39] <samantha> cheeky
[15:39] <samantha> i guess sliverlight does the same
[15:39] <Darael> Silverlight is Windows software, ergo it wraps its slimy fingers into the guts of the system.
[15:40] <samantha> ew
[15:40] <samantha> creepy
[15:40] <Darael> (OK, that's not universally true, but it's true of the vast majority of software for Windows.  It has to, to run at all)
[15:40] <Darael> ...I'm being unfair, aren't I?
[15:40] <samantha> no
[15:41] <samantha> its creepy
[15:41] <samantha> you and me are considered criminal for buying a title/service
[15:41] <oimon> can you go from hdmi -> dvi port on a monitor without losing quality?
[15:41] <bigcalm> Yes
[15:41] <oimon> (in general)
[15:41] <bigcalm> The only thing you lose will be audio
[15:42] <Darael> If the monitor supports the resolution, yes.  The image format is the same, sans the DRM.
[15:42] <samantha> gotta go, take care and buh bye
[15:42] <gord> its digital, losing "quality" isn't an issue ;)
[15:43] <popey> every pixel is sacred
[15:43] <bigcalm> Every pixel is gooooood
[15:43] <Darael> Ev'ry pixel is needed
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> Network neighborhood?
[15:43]  * daubers gets the gnu
[15:44] <bigcalm> Anny get your gnu?
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> ♫ We all live in a Windows subroutine
[15:44] <smittix> windows subroutine
[15:45] <MartijnVdS> Or "Deadlock holiday".. or "Another cron bites the dust"
[15:45] <smittix> heh
[15:46] <Darael> Kill(1)er Queen?
[15:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: Happy new year DUDE!
[15:50] <bigcalm> davmor2: ahoy and HNY :)
[16:04] <archie> re
[16:04] <archie> anyone there
[16:05] <daubers> !ping
[16:05] <archie> anyone there
[16:05] <archie> PING!
[16:05] <MooDoo> oh congrats AlanBell :)
[16:05] <archie> hi
[16:11] <popey> oimon: my nvidia-based machine suspends and wakes no problem
[16:11]  * popey thinks 'hello' might have been a better response to archie there
[16:18] <daubers> Probably
[16:18]  * daubers isn't really with it
[16:18] <daubers> popey: seen this? http://realtimerendering.com/erich/minecraft/public/mineways/
[16:20] <oimon> popey: hmmm :(
[16:20] <oimon> it suspend/waked ok when i had a different card in the pc
[16:21] <oimon> (and nouveau drivers)
[16:25] <oimon> what's the best gantt chart software for linux?
[16:26] <gord> i don't think i have anything that doesn't suspend/wake okay anymore :) life is good
[16:28] <popey> daubers: hah, awesome
[16:30] <jutnux> There's a cheap 3d printer out there it works with too I think
[16:30] <zleap> hello
[16:43] <jutnux> 16gb memory stick for £8.99 \o/
[16:44] <zleap> not bad
[16:44] <bigcalm> 1) is it of good quality? 2) is it fast?
[16:44] <jutnux> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00422DCB6
[16:45] <bigcalm> The quality is there. Doesn't give any information on transfer speeds though
[16:45] <jutnux> Some people have ran some tests and it's like 4mb/s write and 15mb/s read
[16:45] <jutnux> Not too fast but it's only £8
[16:46] <bigcalm> 9
[16:46]  * jutnux hit the 8 instead of 9
[16:46] <bigcalm> But still good for the money
[16:46] <jutnux> and free postage
[16:58] <Supermanintights> hey guys, if i've done a dualboot with ubuntu/windows - and my windows side seems to have just corrupted itself on boot - is it you guys, or ##windows i'm best speaking to for help?
[17:00] <gord> Supermanintights, well technically ##windows, but who knows, maybe someone here can help too
[17:00] <bigcalm> Supermanintights: try ##windows 1st
[17:00] <bigcalm> But ask around
[17:01] <Supermanintights> ok, cool - i'll ask over there, then if that fails, i'll come back to here - cheers :)
[17:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/03/the-swift-rise-and-sad-fall-of-the-asus-transformer-prime-android-tablet/
[17:06] <oimon> asus are eejits
[17:06] <popey> yup
[17:06] <oimon> i really wanted one of those
[17:06] <popey> they even did a OTA update on the transformer (non-prime) over xmas which made it harder to root
[17:06] <oimon> but i wanted to own it
[17:06] <oimon> asus have only a short time to turn this around
[17:07] <popey> wow, that article is really overplaying it
[17:09] <davmor2> czajkowski: Prod!!!!!
[17:10]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2
[17:11] <davmor2> czajkowski: Ah I love you too :D
[17:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: I've spent entire day whittling emails I hate first days back,  5328 → 300 or so important ones
[17:12] <czajkowski> davmor2: new me no poking prodding kicking or stabbing
[17:12] <czajkowski> lets see how long this lasts
[17:13] <mgdm> I give it 24 hours
[17:13] <davmor2> czajkowski: You did see my new years resolution right :D
[17:13] <czajkowski> davmor2: yes dear
[17:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: I'll be back on track with that tomorrow now I've played catch up ;)
[17:18] <czajkowski> cannot wait
[17:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: I put you resolution to the test ;)
[17:21] <czajkowski> :)
[17:22] <popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/o19jg/canonical_to_have_showing_at_ces_announcing/
[17:23] <directhex> maybe they'll announce unity actually tracking window focus well enough that the menu bar you see at the top reflects the currently visible window?
[17:26] <directhex> i am sick and tired of clicking the red X in unity, and having a window unrelated to what i was looking at get closed. especially when the closed window was playing audio
[17:26] <popey> yeah, that's annoying
[17:37] <faiob> hi body, good new year!
[17:39] <faiob> There is peapel know, how to do for found the cron is start in my /var/log/auth.log ?
[17:54] <dwatkins> I'm not sure I understand your question, faiob; would it be easier in another language, assuming English isn't your mother tongue?
[18:00] <zleap> directhex, i agree with you on that one
[18:04] <jutnux> Gotta say
[18:04] <jutnux> Amazon has made it easy to buy music
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> so has Ubuntu (One) ;)
[18:11] <jutnux> I presume you get the .mp3
[18:12] <davmor2> jutnux: Yeap, plus it is stored on you U1 account so can be added to any Ubuntu device plus android and ios too
[18:12] <jutnux> Albums are a little bit more expensive in some cases though.
[18:13] <jutnux> I think I'll alternate between the two
[18:13] <christel> i need some alans please
[18:13] <czajkowski> the U1 team is the 2nd most helpful on  IRC with issues and for feedback
[18:13]  * popey stands to attention
[18:13] <czajkowski> christel: talk to TheOpenSourcerer
[18:13]  * popey flounces off
[18:13] <davmor2> popey: run save yourself you fool
[18:13] <christel> popey: apparently you may step down, czajkowski didn't specify which alan i needed!
[18:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> hulo
[18:13] <christel> hehe
[18:14] <jutnux> czajkowski: Indeed. I guess U1 will be cheaper in some cases and amazon in others :-P
[18:14] <czajkowski> I buy music on U1
[18:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> wazzup christel
[18:14] <czajkowski> gadgets on amazon
[18:14] <jutnux> All I need
[18:14] <jutnux> is education at home
[18:14] <christel> TheOpenSourcerer: hai! i need some help -- i am trying to think of a 60th birthday present for my golfmad mother in law -- i was thinking one night incl. dinner and breakfast + two rounds of golf (montgomerie one day and twenty ten course the next) at celtic manor? would that be appreciated by a golfer?
[18:15] <jutnux> and then I wouldn't ever need to go out again
[18:15] <christel> or is it a daft present?
[18:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wow! That sounds great.
[18:15] <christel> (they live in bristol, so celtic manor seemed a good choice locationwise)
[18:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'd be delighted to have that.
[18:15] <christel> superb!
[18:15] <czajkowski> christel: send them to lahinch for a golfing weekend
[18:15] <jutnux> It sounds good and I'm not in love with Golf.
[18:15] <czajkowski> eat and drink all weekend
[18:15] <czajkowski> fly into shannon
[18:15] <czajkowski> :)
[18:15] <christel> czajkowski: i did consider ireland actually
[18:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'n being summoned for supper. Must dash.
[18:16] <christel> enjoy!
[18:17] <christel> :)
[18:17] <christel> and thank you
[19:44] <jacobw> evening
[19:55] <daubers> Hmmm.. the "textbook" for my current OU course has a section devoted to canonical
[19:59] <davmor2> daubers: what are you studying?
[20:02] <daubers> davmor2: TU100 "My Digital Life" it's a bit simple, but needed for the CS degree
[20:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is quite amazing: http://scaleofuniverse.com/
[20:02] <daubers> this bit is about cloud computing
[20:02] <davmor2> daubers: nice :)
[20:08] <jacobw> i did M150 and T175 in their last presentations before TU100 took over
[20:09] <jacobw> i should have done TU100 if any, M150 and T175 were boring.
[20:10] <daubers> jacobw: As is tu100....
[20:11] <daubers> sense is an awful language that is slow to work with and a bit too "colour by numbers" to be of any real teaching use except with under 10's
[20:11] <jacobw> at least m150 had javascript, even if it was 'optional'
[20:12] <jacobw> many of the students were unhappy about having to program, which is ridiculous, and the tutors were very happy to point out how optional the javascript part of the course was
[20:13] <daubers> sigh
[20:14] <jutnux> We got to do some "programming" at school
[20:14] <jutnux> invalid HTML5
[20:14] <jutnux> HTML4*
[20:14] <davmor2> daubers: Yes but is is language agnostic enough to teach you programming/scripting basics that you can build on in really languages?  and also don't foget you don't know at what level the course is aimed at :)
[20:15] <ali1234> degree level?
[20:15] <jacobw> OU level 1 is not degree level
[20:16] <jutnux> Open University?
[20:16] <ali1234> what's the point of it then?
[20:16] <daubers> davmor2: It's supposed to be university level 1. It's also really not that agnostic, since it works a bit like turtle did (i.e. pen down, move 10 blah blah)
[20:16] <daubers> I'd love to find a graphical programming language that still works that way
[20:17] <ali1234> opengl?
[20:17] <jacobw> i came to the conclusion there was no point
[20:17] <ali1234> (or just logo)
[20:18] <davmor2> daubers: Yeah what I'm saying though is there is a difference between a graduate course and a course that earns you points so you can get on the graduate course and the level can be that of coming from no experience in programming at all if that makes sense
[20:19] <jacobw> most of the other students on my course were middle aged and recently unemployed
[20:20] <davmor2> daubers: so the question remains can it teach easily the idea of variables, loops, programming block layouts etc without being as specific as certian other languages need to be if that makes sense
[20:21] <daubers> davmor2: Not really. There is no idea of typing in the variables at all
[20:21] <smittix> Evening all, Does anyone know of a decent download manager that downloads files in chunks?
[20:21] <jutnux> smittix: FatRat, jDownloader..
[20:21] <ali1234> typing is not essential for a teaching language
[20:21] <smittix> I use IDM in windows. Was looking for something similar.
[20:21] <ali1234> it just gets in the way
[20:21] <jutnux> My idea of learning is not like school learning
[20:21] <jutnux> Classroms = bore
[20:21] <jutnux> rooms
[20:21] <davmor2> daubers: then it sucks and they should use python :D
[20:22] <jacobw> everbody should use python :)
[20:22] <jutnux> Indeed
[20:22] <daubers> davmor2: :p Knowing about types is quite important even in non strongly typed languages like python
[20:22] <smittix> jutnux: Thank's I will try FatRat. I didn't know jDownloader did segmentation/
[20:22] <ali1234> no it isn't
[20:22] <jutnux> smittix: I don't think it does haha
[20:22] <daubers> I've seen several conversations on my course of "If I type in two and multiply it by 4 why doesn't it work"
[20:23] <ali1234> that's a perfectly reasonable question
[20:23] <jutnux> No it isn't
[20:23] <AlanBell> twotwotwotwo is a reasonable answer
[20:23] <jutnux> ^ Indeed.
[20:23] <ali1234> python will give you that answer
[20:23] <daubers> ali1234: It's not when you then have to use another programming language as an example as to what a variable type is
[20:23] <ali1234> and it's an answer that makes it clear why what happened, happened
[20:24] <daubers> and then get all the confused looks from the various other people who are now confused that programming isn't dropping coloured blocks on a screen
[20:24] <AlanBell> "eight" is a really good answer, not sure if there is any language that would do that
[20:24] <ali1234> you don't need to explain the concept of types to explain why 2 * "two" = "twotwo"
[20:24] <jutnux> I find it hard explaining things
[20:24] <jutnux> I don't know how teachers / instructors manage sometimes
[20:24] <jacobw> the OU forums are dreadul
[20:24] <daubers> ali1234: So you just go with the "It's magic" philosophy of not explaining why things ar ethe way they are?
[20:24] <ali1234> nope
[20:25] <daubers> "Thats an integer and that's a string" has automatically raised a question of types
[20:25] <ali1234> yeah and that's a poor way of explaining it
[20:25] <daubers> How would you explain it without invoking some description of a type
[20:25] <ali1234> simply tell them that "two" and 2 are not equivalent
[20:26] <daubers> To which they ask "why"
[20:26] <ali1234> why?
[20:26] <daubers> why are they not equivalent, 2 is the same as two in the english language
[20:26] <ali1234> do they look the same?
[20:26] <daubers> they have the same meaning
[20:26] <ali1234> they have the same meaning *to a person*
[20:26] <ali1234> a computer is not a person
[20:26] <daubers> So why doesn't the computer understand that?
[20:27] <ali1234> incidentally, if the person doesn't speak english, but is european, 2 and two don't have the same meaning
[20:27] <ali1234> a computer is not a person. computers don't understand anything
[20:27] <daubers> That's not a reason why
[20:27] <ali1234> this is a much more valuable lesson than the difference between string and int
[20:28] <daubers> You can also make variable overflow easy in sense
[20:28] <daubers> As anything without a decimal is assumed to be an int
[20:28] <daubers> Which has also raised the type question
[20:29] <ali1234> well, sense sucks
[20:29] <jacobw> are they trying avoid acknowledging the existance of types?
[20:29] <ali1234> if you are going to make a dynamic typed language, at least make it promote rather than overflow
[20:30] <ali1234> but again, we're talking absolute introduction to programming here
[20:30] <ali1234> once they've understood the idea than computers don't have any undertsanding of the data they process then they are ready for things like types and bitwise logical operations
[20:31] <ali1234> see, when you have an absolute beginner, a good answer raises more questions
[20:31]  * daubers remembers getting marked down on his physics degree for saying an "int" was a type with the reason that "it's too small to be useful"
[20:31] <ali1234> that way, they are learning without even realising it
[20:38] <ali1234> incidentally, the very first "programming" course on my degree was conducted in assembly language
[20:39] <ali1234> this is still a good place to start as it covers logic and control flow while making it painfully obvious that computers do not understand natural language
[20:40] <jacobw> i'm not sure why people think computers do understand natural languages
[20:40] <ali1234> because they are first taught high level languages that are very close to natural language, and don't understand what a compiler is doing
[20:42] <jacobw> perl :p
[20:43] <ali1234> perl is juts a horrible mess
[20:43]  * jacobw agrees
[20:44] <jacobw> worryingly, many of the applications i support are written in perl :|
[20:44] <zleap> i thought perl was mainly for handling data
[20:45] <jacobw> it can do anything really, and 'handling data' is kind of a broad spectrum
[20:46] <ali1234> computers in general are for handling data
[20:46] <ali1234> they literally can't do anything else
[20:46] <zleap> good point
[21:12] <Neoti_Laptop> hey ubuntu people... i'd like to find a list of all tv capture cards that are supported by ubuntu 10.10 mainly huappage cards?
[21:13] <DJones> !hcl | Neoti_Laptop I think there should be something in the links here
[21:20] <Neoti_Laptop> Excellent thanks DJones
[21:21] <czajkowski> popey: any idea who I poke re battery life on laptops with Ubuntu running on them ?
[21:21] <DJones> Neoti_Laptop: Hopefully you found what you're looking for
[21:31] <popey> czajkowski: wassup?
[21:33] <czajkowski> popey: tosh should get 8hrs under windows, and is getting 4-5hrs under Ubuntu
[21:34] <czajkowski> want the other 4-3 hrs :)
[21:34] <popey> Good luck with that.
[21:34] <czajkowski> indeed
[21:34] <czajkowski> :/
[21:35] <jutnux> czajkowski: Invest in one of these: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ixm0GNatFqQ/TVrOsQ_5rwI/AAAAAAAAIQo/2-NxkeB5f3U/s1600/usb_laptop_self-charger_cable_500.jpg
[21:35] <jacobw> shouldn't have to
[21:36] <czajkowski> indeed
[21:36] <jacobw> haha, i didn't click that link
[21:36] <jacobw> its genius
[21:36] <jutnux> :P
[21:36] <czajkowski> plus the USB port that charges isn't near the power socket
[21:36] <jutnux> Haha
[21:38] <popey> czajkowski: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerManagementPMUtils
[21:38] <czajkowski> popey: did the kids enjoy Santa ?
[21:38] <czajkowski> and have a good christmas?
[21:38] <popey> Colin King is working on stuff, but I doubt it will ever give you the claimed 8 hours
[21:38] <popey> did you test it under windows? did you actually get 8 hours?
[21:39] <czajkowski> popey: thanks for the link.
[21:39] <popey> yeah, they did
[21:39] <popey> they are still off school, dont go back for a while
[21:39] <jutnux> Your kids are lucky popey, I go back tomorrow :-(
[21:39] <czajkowski> no after about 4hrs of dealing with J and dad muttering in the background while we were doing stuff, the battery level had barely moved
[21:59] <czajkowski> gmb: post your fb comment on photoshoot to G+ so I can share there
[21:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Asus to release an unlocking tool for the prime bootloader: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/01/asus-to-unlock-transformer-primes-bootloader-update-to-android-4.ars
[22:00] <jutnux> TheOpenSourcerer: Not much of a surprise as pretty much all purchasers were moaning about it.
[22:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
[22:01] <AlanBell> I would think pretty much all purchasers have *no clue* what a bootloader is
[22:01] <AlanBell> however a noisy minority do, which is great
[22:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> dunno AlanBell - It's quite a "geeky toy" if you ask me.
[22:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> BTW The webos browser fails 100% to handle the POS interface
[22:26] <monsterwizard> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIZoj3VWkKY


[00:40] <tsimonq2> pleia2: just curious, not asking to be annoying, I just want to know when to check back...anyways...when will you be able to look at the articles? :)
[00:47] <pleia2> tsimonq2: I really don't know, I'm still working
[00:47] <tsimonq2> ok :)
[01:09] <pleia2> tsimonq2: I need to take a break, but I went through some of the articles, can you look at my comments on the omg ubuntu links?
[01:10] <pleia2> alas, just because it's on omg ubuntu, doesn't mean it's ubuntu-y, or matches criteria for inclusion
[01:11] <tsimonq2> yeah gotcha
[02:56] <pleia2> ok, newsletter reviewed and sent to summary writers
[02:57] <pleia2> tsimonq2: thanks for your help, just a few edits and added a few more articles from around
[03:03] <tsimonq2> got it :)
[03:07] <tsimonq2> pleia2: LoCo thing, I want you to add it because you already summoned the summary writers, although nobody but me is on the doc: http://ubuntu-wisconsin.org/blog/2016/01/15/
[03:08] <tsimonq2> pleia2: and I just published it as you summoned them, so I think it can still go in :)
[03:08] <pleia2> the newsletter covers through sunday, so plenty of time :)
[03:09] <tsimonq2> pleia2:  oh ok, so I might as well add it :D
[03:10] <tsimonq2> pleia2: and the purpose of that blog post is basically to say, "we exist"
[03:10] <tsimonq2> and to shed some light on how it works
[03:15] <pleia2> alright
[03:15] <tsimonq2> yay :D
[12:40]  * PaulW2U makes some minor updates to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/LinkSuggestions
[13:17] <tsimonq2> PaulW2U: MUCH appreciated :)


[14:01] <wget> Guys: I had a discussion ages ago with one of your kernel maintainer about this topic, and it's still not resolved and still impacting Ubuntu (while haven't tested 15.x nor 16.x series).
[14:01] <wget> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75381
[14:01] <wget> that bug is related to this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1269883?comments=all