[12:20] <crevette> hello
[12:21] <crevette> hello seb128
[12:25] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[12:25] <mjg59> jbailey: Yes
[12:26] <jdub> mjg59: do you have some form of voip thingy?
[12:27] <mjg59> jdub: Nope
[12:28] <jbailey> mjg59: Eh?
[12:28] <mjg59> jdub: I'm afraid I'm just about to cook and then hit bed - can I get back to you tomorrow?
[12:29] <mjg59> < jbailey> mjg59: (The progress background is what you recently added, right?)
[12:29] <jdub> yep
[12:29] <jbailey> mjg59: Right. =)
[12:30] <jbailey> mjg59: Thanks.
[12:34] <elmo> umm, so why was the html page removed from ubuntu-artwork if firefox still defaults to looking for it there?
[12:35] <jdub> elmo: out of sync changes, it'll be fixed soon enough
[12:36] <elmo> k
[12:36] <crimsun> elmo, hi, please sync tor from Sid
[12:39] <elmo> crimsun: done
[12:40] <crimsun> thanks!
[12:49] <tseng> elmo: can you axe gtk-sharp-unstable source and binaries?
[12:49] <tseng> elmo: or better not the binaries, they are the same names
[12:49] <jbailey> segfault: Still there?
[12:50] <tseng> elmo: just gtk-sharp-examples-unstable gtk-sharp-gapi-unstable  are unwanted
[01:33] <joh> k
[01:33] <joh> (whops :P)
[01:40] <jdub>    * drivers-scsi-libata-passthrough: Support for ata passthrough with hdparm
[01:40] <jdub>      and smartmon tools. (Closes: #14931)
[01:40] <jdub> BenC: MWAH!
[01:40] <jdub> WOOOHOO!
[01:44] <jdub> elmo: unlikely ping
[01:44] <elmo> eh?
[01:45] <jdub> oh, hey
[01:45] <jdub> what are the chances of getting awstats on humboldt? i can run it all as my user
[01:46] <jdub> or at least own the config
[01:47] <elmo> jdub: installing
[01:47] <jdub> thanks
[02:23] <jdub> rock, we're going to have our first podcast bit on the fridge soon
[02:23] <jdub> though it was not what i expected our first podcast to be
[02:24] <jdub> just did an interview for LA update -> i thought i'd be doing the interviewing!
[02:25] <Keybuk> mmm, fridge
[02:25] <Keybuk> it's a lovely word to say, that
[02:25] <jdub> meanwhile, my freezer needs defrosting
[02:25] <jdong> Anyone here w/ contact info for Daniel G Taylor?
[02:26] <jdong> http://programmer-art.org/debins tell him to stop telling people to copy unmanaged files into /usr/bin :)
[02:27] <segfault> jbailey: yes, now
[02:28] <jdong> oh, yeah, is A4 still the default paper size for everything from CUPS to OOo?
[02:29] <CarlFK> it was a few weeks ago
[02:30] <CarlFK> I keep forgetting to ask: couldn't that be driven by one of the location settings?
[02:30] <jdong> CarlFK: exactly what I wanted to say
[02:30] <jdong> I've considered a bugzilla rant about it :)
[02:30] <segfault> jbailey: you around?
[02:32] <jdong> CarlFK: technically, I suppose it's a personal preference, but at least in USA the sensible default is Letter
[02:33] <maswan> jdong: yeah, if you got to have just one default though, everywhere outside of USA is A4
[02:34] <jdong> maswan: I agree with that, but IMO a special-case with USA should be implemented in debian-installer's location dialog :)
[02:35] <maswan> jdong: yeah, it would increase the just works part of usa installs
[02:36] <jdong> maswan: especially since there's no easy-to-use, human-being-friendly way of changing that setting :)
[02:37] <Keybuk> jdub: my old freezer used to just defrost itself when it felt like it
[02:37] <bddebian> kick ass
[02:37] <Keybuk> it'd get iced up so the door wouldn't quite seal
[02:37] <Keybuk> and you'd come back to find the kitchen flooded and the freezer with a smug "well, I needed defrosting" look on it
[02:49] <jdub> Keybuk: "new NYAH-NYAH brand!"
[02:50] <bddebian> Anyone have a clue how I do a 0x0a in a mime xml file?
[02:56] <bddebian>  \x0A
[02:56] <bddebian> Oh thx bddebian
[02:56] <Keybuk> *sigh* at evo ... get off that bloody futex
[02:57] <Keybuk> bddebian:
 isn't it in xml?
[02:57] <bddebian> Dunno, that's how they do it on an example at freedesktop.org
[02:59] <eruin> I just sent a whopping load of translations for synaptic at lauchpad, and I'm wondering when/if I can expect this to surface in breezy?
[03:00] <jdub> eruin: might want to ask pitti when he's around
[03:01] <eruin> willdo, thanks
[03:11] <bddebian> Hmm, it doesn't like my &gt or \x0A

[03:13] <elmo> btw, nice side affect of usplash is that my monitor warns me I'm destroying my eyes whenever I switch to the console
[03:14] <bddebian> Keybuk: ??
[03:14] <Keybuk> jdub: you forgot to update screenshot.png again
[03:14] <Keybuk> the naked people are *so* last year
[04:40] <jbailey> segfault: Back now, I went out shopping. =)
[04:41] <segfault> no problem
[04:41] <bddebian> jbailey: Really?  What did you buy me? ;-)
[04:41] <jbailey> bddebian: A vodka ice.  But if you want it, you have to get here before I drink it.
[04:41] <jbailey> I'd hate to let alcohol go to waste. =)
[04:41] <bddebian> Heh
[04:42] <segfault> did you want to talk with me?
[04:44] <jbailey> segfault: I wanted to ask you about the wiki page.  It's missing a final step, but I didn't want to edit it without talking to you.
[04:45] <segfault> ah, no problem.. you should edit it
[04:45] <jbailey> 'kay cool.
[04:45] <segfault> what is step is missing?
[04:45] <jbailey> The regenerate the initramfs step. =)
[04:45] <jbailey> Nothing that happens on your harddrive is relevant until that happens. =)
[04:45] <segfault> ah, yeah, mkinitramfs
[04:46] <jbailey> Right. =)
[04:48] <desrt> k.. so i want to burn a shitload of breezy cds for an installfest on sunday
[04:48] <desrt> i take it i'm best off with a daily snapshot?
[04:49] <jbailey> desrt: I suggest you do it either after tonight's or after tomorrow nights.
[04:49] <jbailey> There's still enough little bugs being fixed that it's worth pushing it as late as you can get away with and still have enough.
[04:49] <desrt> btw... have you noticed that canadian installs get 'a4' paper?
[04:49] <jbailey> Eh, really?
[04:49] <jbailey> I hadn't. =)
[04:49] <desrt> they do as of colony 3
[04:50] <desrt> they did for hoary at one point but it got fixed
[04:50] <desrt> so... regression i guess?
[04:50] <desrt> when do the nightly builds hit the server?
[04:51] <jbailey> I think about 4am Eastern, but I'm not sure
[04:51] <segfault> the language pack released today hasn't the new translations
[04:51] <desrt> (and where?)
[04:51] <segfault> anyone knows why?
[04:52] <jbailey> segfault: Martinis likely to only one who'd know, and he's (hopefully) asleep. =)
[04:53] <segfault> ah, ok
[04:53] <CarlFK> desrt - you should do your installs using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/LocalNet
[04:53] <segfault> tomorrow maybe we'll have some news
[04:54] <CarlFK> you can rsync the latest CD image 20 min before you start, and then everyone can hit that imge over the LAN
[04:54] <desrt> CarlFK; i don't have etherboot/pxe/whatever for the 1000s of insane network cards in people's machines
[04:55] <CarlFK> desrt - if you had a little more time, you could have had everyone play with http://rom-o-matic.net
[04:56] <desrt> CarlFK; cds are easy and fast enough :)
[04:56] <desrt> CarlFK; and if i use a daily build from tonight or tomorrow night it'll be fine
[04:56] <desrt> (where are they??)
[04:56] <desrt> oh.  nm
[04:58] <CarlFK> 1000's? how many people do you expect?
[08:39] <jmg> whats the "right way" for me to submit a source diff to malone?
[08:39] <jmg> i have modified the source tree from apt-get source and my built package fixes the bug im filing, what next?
[08:43] <\sh> jmg: attach it as patch
[08:44] <\sh> jmg: which package btw.
[08:55] <mdke> has anyone else complained about weird things happening on mailing lists?
[08:55] <jsgotangco> how weird
[08:55] <jsgotangco> i haven't been receiving emails lately
[08:57] <mdke> over the last two days I've noticed a number of threads on -it and -doc that haven't been in the mailman archive
[08:57] <mdke> yesterday, -it received an email from a guy who complains that he never sent it
[08:57] <mdke> perhaps there is a ghost in the server
[09:01] <jmg> \sh: kvpnc
[09:01] <jmg> ] sh: is there a right way to do the patch? using dpkg-source or soemthing?
[09:02] <jmg> \sh: is there a right way to do the patch? using dpkg-source or something?
[09:08] <Keybuk> HAPPY MAILMAN DAY EVERYONE!
[09:09] <mdke> ?
[09:10] <robitaille> mailman day?   the application, or the guy who walks to my door everyday with the mail?
[09:10] <Keybuk> gosh, people who don't know about mailman day
[09:10] <Keybuk> Mailman day is the first day of each month
[09:10] <Keybuk> when all around the world, millions of people feel a little warm fuzzy feeling when their inbox gets spammed by all the password reminders for all the lists they're on
[09:10] <robitaille> never heard of that one
[09:10] <mdke> hmm
[09:11] <robitaille> ah.  that day!
[09:11] <mdke> mailman day didn't visit me today
[09:11] <mdke> lol http://www.crackmonkey.org/pipermail/crackmonkey/2002-December/034294.html
[09:11] <Keybuk> dunno who started it, but it's been tradition for a few years now to wish everyone a happy mailman day when you get your first one
[09:11] <robitaille> still haven't received one.  But usually I have half-dozen of these reminders
[09:13] <jdub> Keybuk: eyah
[09:14] <Keybuk> I remember one month, a few years ago now when I worked at the Demon NOC, someone bought in party hats for everyone to wear on mailman day
[09:18] <mdke> jdub, have you noticed anything odd with the mailing lists recently?
[09:19] <jdub> well, i saw lions running through the city streets earlier
[09:19] <jdub> but nothing in particular with the mailing list
[09:19] <mdke> that is more interesting
[09:21] <mdke> jdub, i've noticed that some threads that I get in my mailbox and that appear on gmane don't go into the mailman archive
[09:22] <mdke> jdub, i'll give you an example.
[09:22] <jdub> thanks, was just about to ask :-)
[09:23] <mdke> jdub, this thread http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/3242 doesn't appear here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-September/thread.html
[09:25] <mdke> jdub, further, the last message here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-it/2005-September/thread.html is from the 28th. At least the top 5 threads here http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.italian/ do not appear on the archive
[09:26] <Keybuk> looks like the mailman archive stalled a couple of days ago
[09:26] <mdke> ah
[09:26] <Keybuk> all of the lists are showing it
[09:26] <Keybuk> did rince run out of disk space again?
[09:27] <jdub> no, checked that as soon as mdke mentioned it
[09:27] <Keybuk> or did Mark remember the root password and do bad things to it?
[09:27] <mdke> ;)
[09:28] <jdub> haha, no
[09:28] <mdke> jdub, the other thing that I would just report is that a user on -it reported that a mail, with some weird png attachment, wasn't sent by him at all. But I dunno if you can figure out what went on there
[09:28] <jdub> sounds like it's very much related to the lions running through the streets
[09:28] <mdke> damn lions
[09:28] <jdub> let's just hope the messiah doesn't turn up again and zap us all into dust
[09:29] <Keybuk> hey, I'm totally ready for the rapture!  got my potato right here
[09:29] <jdub> it was pretty depressing when that happened last time
[09:29] <jdub> the stench!
[09:30] <robitaille> the ubuntu project has enough daniels around to deal with all these lions :)
[09:31] <mdke> heh
[09:31] <Keybuk> yeah, we've run out of adjectives
[09:32] <Keybuk> daniel the taller, daniel the wider, daniel the brazilianer, daniel the germaner
[09:32] <Keybuk> just doesn't work
[09:33] <calc> robitaille: i thought you meant someone cloned daniels ;)
[09:33] <jdub> hrm
[09:34] <jdub> that's unfortunate
[09:34] <jdub> i was thinking of calling them "Daniel of ..." where ... == region
[09:34] <jdub> but it turns out that berlin's province is berlin
[09:34] <jdub> which is totally uncool
[09:34] <jdub> "Daniel of Brandenburg" would be way cooler
[09:34] <jdub> "Daniel of Amazon"
[09:34] <robitaille> Daniel of Victoria has a nice feel to it
[09:35] <jdub> robitaille: that's actually "Daniel of Mexico"
[09:35] <mdke> call him brandenburg anyway
[09:35] <Keybuk> Daniel of the West Midlands
[09:35] <jdub> well, brandenburg does enclose berlin
[09:35] <Keybuk> ...no, bob2 would wet himself
[09:35] <jdub> kinda like nsw/act here
[09:37] <mdke> jdub, if it helps, that rogue email that I mentioned above is this one http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.italian/6261
[09:37] <jdub> yo vuntz
[09:37] <mdke> no it isn't!
[09:37] <jdub> vuntz: thanks for the distributor-logo hack :)
[09:38] <mdke> jdub, i mean this one http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.italian/6282
[09:38] <vuntz> jdub: :-)
[09:39] <jdub> robitaille: s/canonical/ubuntu/ !
[09:39] <vuntz> jdub: hrm... doesn't the logo look a bit "weird" when you click on the menu (ie, when it's highlighted)?
[09:40] <jdub> vuntz: yes, there's a glow behind it - i will probably muck with it a bit to make the glow both more pronounced, but much closer to the object
[09:40] <crimsun> due to the image border? e.g., the "block"
[09:41] <robitaille> oh yes, just looking at http://www.canonical.com/   ;  never noticed its logo  was different from the ubuntu logo
[09:43] <mdke> are there going to be firefox translations for breezy?
[09:44] <jdub> robitaille: dude, our first podcast bits on the fridge in a few minutes :)
[09:46] <ajmitch> jdub: rock, what's it about?
[09:46] <jdub> well, unfortunately it's an interview with me
[09:46] <robitaille> jdub,  cool.  by the way, I should an small article about MOTU somewhere in the queue since yesterday; but I can't see it :(
[09:46] <ajmitch> it'll be lively at least :)
[09:46] <jdub> robitaille: yes, been meaning to email about that
[09:46] <ajmitch> robitaille: what dirty MOTU secrets are you exposing?
[09:46] <jdub> robitaille: i think we should try to summarise and link to the full notes
[09:47] <robitaille> ajmitch,  the meeting notes.
[09:47] <ajmitch> ah right
[09:47] <ajmitch> in slightly more readable for the average person format?
[09:47] <robitaille> jdub,   yeah;  I ran out of time, so decided that just the notes would work this time around
[09:47] <jdub> ajmitch: mmm, so, "here are the big points - yay team - click here for the full summary"
[09:48] <robitaille> they were old news anyway.  The meeting was on the 22th...
[09:48] <ajmitch> yeah
[09:48] <ajmitch> we usually get the meeting notes out to the lists within a few days
[09:50] <ajmitch> imo the meeting notes generally aren't terribly exciting
[09:52] <mdke> what is the relationship between the fridge and http://www.ubuntu.com/news ?
[09:52] <jdub> spite, disgust, etc.
[09:54] <mdke> jdub, is there an overlap?
[09:55] <robitaille> that reminds me to go update http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/press with some recent news clips
[09:55] <ajmitch> jdub: where do you want us to report website broken links? :)
[09:55] <jdub> haven't quite figured that out, either the fridge will double report the Totally Officious news on w.u.c, or we'll republish a category from the fridge on w.u.c
[09:56] <jdub> now, ubuntu/press is *definitely* replaced with the fridge
[09:56] <jdub> so robitaille - don't bother ;)
[09:56] <robitaille> soon?
[09:56] <jdub> when we officially announce the fridge, we'll display the feed of press on w.u.c from it
[09:56] <jdub> yeah
[09:56] <jdub> ajmitch: yeah, i guess :)
[09:56] <robitaille> great.    I was wondering the other day was I was asked to do that :)
[09:57] <robitaille> (updating .../press)
[09:57] <ajmitch> jdub: well http://www.ubuntu.com/merchandise has broken 'bounty fund' link
[10:00] <robitaille> should it links to this one?   http://www.ubuntu.com/community/bounties/
[10:01] <ajmitch> yes, I think so
[10:04] <jsgotangco> hi everyone, please take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes and update as needed. We'll be needing this document in a few days so please participate in shaping this doc. Thanks
[10:12] <jmg> guys whats the best way for me to diff a source package after ive fixed a bug
[10:12] <bob2> ?
[10:13] <bob2> you mean "how do I produce a patch for a bug fix I did?"?
[10:13] <jmg> i have modified the source tree from apt-get source and my built package fixes the bug im filing, what next?
[10:13] <jmg> is there a right way to do the patch? using dpkg-source or something?
[10:13] <bob2> easiest way is to unpack the original somewhere else and use diff to get a patch between them
[10:13] <bob2> another option is to use interdiff on the old and new .diff.gzs
[10:13] <Keybuk> jmg: if you have the old source dsc and your new source dsc file, use the "debdiff" tool in the devscripts package
[10:18] <jmg> Keybuk: thanks@
[10:18] <jmg> !
[10:21] <jmg> gah kvpnc is not even registered on malone
[10:23] <ajmitch> jmg: and what was the problem with kvpnc?
[10:23] <jmg> ajmitch: option "refuse eap" does not refuse eap
[10:23] <jmg> as in, the source was missing the stanza to write refuse-eap to the config file
[10:23] <jmg> so i added it
[10:23] <ajmitch> ok
[10:24] <jmg> should i send my patch directly to upstream
[10:24] <ajmitch> you can, but we're not likely to get in a new upstream version at this stage
[10:24] <jmg> ok
[10:24] <jmg> cool
[10:25] <jmg> ajmitch: it seems wintendo 2k3 recently started supporting eap
[10:25] <jmg> ajmitch: but it doesnt actually work
[10:25] <jdub> ok dudes
[10:25] <jdub> what are some rad podcast clients in hoary?
[10:25] <jmg> ajmitch: so you have to explicitly say refuse-eap and use mppe
[10:26] <jmg> in hoary?
[10:26] <jdub> yeah
[10:26] <jdub> want to point people to stuff they can use now
[10:26] <jdub> from the fridge
[10:26] <jmg> does amarok support it?
[10:26] <jdub> will also have "stuff in breezy" too
[10:26] <jdub> dunno
[10:28] <ajmitch> jmg: just put the debdiff somewhere we can see it (we usually get people to upload to revu.tauware.de)
[10:31] <robitaille> jdub,  in Hoary?  podcast tool?  I don't think there are any.   ipodder is only in Breezy.  the Wiki has instruction to install it in Hoary
[10:31] <jdub> wow, really?
[10:31] <robitaille> is monopod still in revu?
[10:31] <ajmitch> jdub: podcasts just weren't cool back in hoary's day :)
[10:31] <ajmitch> robitaille: possibly, unless someone has uploaded it
[10:31] <jdub> it's not in the repo
[10:31] <jdub> ajmitch: yeah, stupid old hoary
[10:31] <jdub> everything six months old SUCKS!
[10:32] <robitaille> but that's only for breezy as well possibly.  Some people also use bashpodder, but that's not rad, and I don't think it is packaged
[10:32] <ajmitch> jdub: yeah, I was thinking how old my (small) stack of hoary cds is now :)
[10:32] <jdub> ok, i guess i will just point to ipodder and the wiki page for putting it on hoary
[10:32] <robitaille> ajmitch,  hey, I only got my hoary CD a few weeks ago.  I still haven't finished distributing them :)
[10:33] <Keybuk> hmm, anyone got much experience with either libcurl or libneon?  which is the easier HTTP library?
[10:33] <ajmitch> breezy has spoilt me
[10:33] <bob2> baz uses libneon
[10:33] <bob2> that may be reason enough to use curl
[10:33] <jdub> you have a nasty, whorish mouth

[10:34] <Keybuk> I basically need to make an HTTP request to get a cookie, than make a couple of other HTTP requests with that cookie and get the data
[10:34] <jdub> perl? python? :)
[10:34] <Treenaks> LWP::Simple ;)
[10:34] <jdub> (not necessarily in that order)
[10:34] <mdke> is usplash coming back in breezy?
[10:34] <bob2> it's already in breezy
[10:34] <Treenaks> mdke: "coming back"? was it away?
[10:34] <bob2> and is the default
[10:34] <bob2> etc
[10:35] <jdub> mdke: there's just a funny bug with it atm
[10:35] <Keybuk> jdub: and then I need to parse the resulting data, and maintain a socket to a server which uses a hideous binary protocol that involves lots of bit-banging
[10:35] <mdke> Treenaks, it is not working since yesterday
[10:35] <mdke> jdub, ah cool
[10:35] <Keybuk> so C is the language of choice here <g>
[10:35] <jdub> Keybuk: sounds like you need a python enema
[10:36] <Keybuk> jdub: Python is by far my favourite hammer
[10:36] <Treenaks> Keybuk: but you're writing stuff for the initrd?
[10:36] <Keybuk> sadly this is delicate bone china that needs glueing together
[10:36] <jdub> python will turn up in our initramfs soon enough
[10:37] <Keybuk> it so won't
[10:37] <infinity> Keybuk : cURL's API is really simple to get into.  neon's not all that difficult either, though, so I'd pick whichever one's already installed on your system. :)
[10:37] <jdub> yeah it will
[10:37] <jdub> and you know it
[10:37] <jdub> you're just trying to delay the inevitable
[10:37] <Keybuk> I'll hardlink /bin/sh and claim it's sufficiently cut down that the language is slightly different <g>
[10:37] <Keybuk> infinity: both seem to be
[10:40] <jmg> ajmitch: see https://launchpad.net/products/kvpnc/
[10:40] <jmg> malone is strange indeed
[10:40] <Keybuk> curl looks ...odd
[10:41] <Keybuk> neon looks more like I was expecting "make a request, send it, get the response"
[10:45] <jmg> ajmitch: how did i do
[10:47] <ajmitch> jmg: looks good, I think :)
[10:48] <ajmitch> jmg: it would be good if the debdiff you made included a changelog entry
[10:48] <ajmitch> and even nicer if you used some patch system, if possible
[10:52] <jmg> how can i make a changelog entry without being a maintainer
[10:52] <ajmitch> you don't have to be
[10:52] <jmg> ajmitch: i was asking about patch systems before
[10:52] <ajmitch> just add one in with your name & email
[10:52] <ajmitch> right
[10:53] <jmg> ajmitch: which one to use
[10:53] <ajmitch> but it looked like you were asking how to make the patch to give to us
[10:54] <jmg> ok
[10:55] <ajmitch> we (motus) tend to use dpatch & have the patch sit in debian/patches
[10:55] <ajmitch> otherwise it gets easy to lose across upstream revisions
[10:55] <ajmitch> at least until Keybuk has hct ready for us :)
[10:55] <jsgotangco> lists are borked?#
[10:58] <jmg> ajmitch: added changelog diff
[10:59] <bob2> hah
[10:59] <ajmitch> bob2: yes sir? :)
[11:00] <ajmitch> jmg: I see no change, you rebuilt the source package before running debdiff?
[11:00] <jmg> arrgh
[11:01] <jmg> i used debchange, thought that would have done it :P
[11:01] <ajmitch> sure, but not to remake the diff :)
[11:04] <jmg> next thing to do is patch kernel-source to remove my errata and see if speedstep really does hang
[11:04] <jmg> 2 hours of battery life is bogus
[11:08] <bob2> wow, nautilus changed a lot
[11:08] <jmg> ajmitch: reuploaded
[11:09] <ajmitch> jmg: new version number, we can't have the same one as in the archive :)
[11:14] <jmg> ajmitch: how can i delete my attachments?
[11:14] <ajmitch> no idea sorry
[11:44] <Yagisan> Where do I report an important bug with the breezy installer (it stops the second stage of the install) ?
[11:44] <mdke> Yagisan, bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[11:49] <Yagisan> mdke: what package is the installer ?
[11:50] <Yagisan> mdke: debian-installer ?
[11:52] <mdke> Yagisan, guess so, in any case if that is wrong it will be reassigned
[11:54] <Yagisan> mdke: thanks.
[12:10] <zyga> morning
[12:25] <Kamion> jdub: it's got a few problems: UI is OK but not superb, it shouldn't create a user in the first stage if you're doing an OEM install, it doesn't install language packs for you, and something else seems to be wrong with localisation of questions in oem-config itself
[12:25] <Kamion> jdub: but it's not too far off, I think
[12:27] <Kamion> Yagisan: in what way is the bug you reported different from #16742? it seems like a duplicate to me
[12:28] <Kamion> Yagisan: the second stage of the installer is just a mostly-normal boot
[12:28] <jdub> Kamion: cool, thanks :)
[12:29] <jdub> Kamion: wondering at what level i should pitch it as a BREEZY NEW HOTNESS feature - worth mentioning, not worth saying it's the cure for cancer. :-)
[12:29] <Kamion> jdub: you might like to try 'install preseed/file=/cdrom/preseed/oem.seed' with a vaguely recent install CD and see what you think yourself
[12:30] <Kamion> I'll make that be a proper boot option before RC
[12:31] <Yagisan> Kamion: I wasn't aware that the second stage wasn't any different. Did I at least get the right package ?
[12:32] <janimo> Kamion, do ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu have different questions in the install process?
[12:32] <Kamion> Yagisan: debian-installer is a fine catch-all package if you don't know installer internals
[12:32] <janimo> if different packages are installed their debconf is run?
[12:32] <Yagisan> Kamion: OK. I just noticed it does the same thing with ext2
[12:33] <Kamion> Yagisan: ! stick that in the bug, I'll take a look
[12:33] <Kamion> that sounds incredible
[12:33] <janimo> I'd like to know how feasible is to ask the user to chose their preferred windowmanager in the xubuntu install
[12:33] <azeem> janimo: doesn't XFCE have a default windowmanager?
[12:34] <janimo> azeem, yes
[12:34] <Kamion> janimo: different default answers, but basically the same set of questions
[12:34] <janimo> but people said that if we have space left on the CD we may include icewm and fluxbox as a choice
[12:34] <janimo> just a possibility if it turns out that it's easy to do
[12:34] <Kamion> janimo: certainly debconf questions for different packages are asked, although generally without actually interacting with the user
[12:34] <jdub> janimo: let users switch to them later - make it 'just work' by default :-)
[12:34] <azeem> they could install it optionally
[12:34] <janimo> jdub, ok
[12:34] <janimo> it was the ubuntulite people's proposal
[12:35] <jdub> janimo: the kind of users who care will know how to do it (or know how to find out)
[12:35] <Kamion> janimo: thing is, you have to have some package that asks that question
[12:35] <Kamion> janimo: the installer won't do it for you - not its place
[12:35] <jdub> janimo: ah, so the ubuntulite people could easily use a kickstart or preseed file to sort that stuff out
[12:35] <Kamion> and that gets kinda complex when multiple packages are involved
[12:35] <janimo> Kamion,sure so if I have a dummy xubuntu-wm pacakge with debconf data in the default install it will ask the question?
[12:36] <Kamion> janimo: yeah, although I tend to agree with jdub here
[12:36] <janimo> sure, I'll take your word for it I know nothing bout the install process
[12:36] <Kamion> janimo: the normal approach would be to have the window manager packages notice if multiple ones are installed, rather than having a separate multiplexing package
[12:36] <jdub> holy crap!
[12:36] <Kamion> kind of like how display managers work
[12:36] <jdub> the fridge is a podcast too!
[12:36] <jdub> :-)
[12:36] <Kamion> that gets rather complex to sort out at short notice, though
[12:37] <janimo> Kamion, ok we'll just stick with xfce default for now
[12:39] <janimo> what is with Tasks: in the package descriptions?
[12:39] <jdub> the codenames poll is running at 74% to 26% with > 400 votes
[12:39] <janimo> I see edubuntu has different versions for some of them than ubuntu
[12:40] <janimo> for some package apt-cache shows two package versions (ubu & edubu)
[12:40] <crevette> hello
[12:40] <janimo> jdub, when I configure xubuntu-devel I missed the privacy option, and only enabled it 3 days later
[12:41] <jdub> <IP_ADDRESS> - - [01/Oct/2005:11:39:18 +0100]  "GET /files/jeff-waugh-on-la-update.ogg HTTP/1.0"<PHONE_NUMBER>2 "-" "iPodder/2.1 +http://ipodder.sf.net/"
[12:41] <zyga> crevette: hello
[12:41] <janimo> so the list archives are visible but are laggin 3 days behind
[12:41] <jdub> janimo: heh :)
[12:41] <ajmitch> jdub: that'd be me :)
[12:41] <Kamion> janimo: that Task: stuff is essentially an implementation detail of the installer
[12:41] <jdub> janimo: ah, no, that's a separate problem
[12:41] <Kamion> anything that's to be installed as part of the Edubuntu desktop, e.g., gets Task: edubuntu-desktop
[12:42] <Kamion> jdub: hmm, what should the OEM install do about users in the first stage? it really ought not to create a non-privileged user; but that means setting a root password, else you're locked out?
[12:42] <Kamion> at the moment, passwd.config requires you to do at least one of (set a root password) and (create a non-priv user)
[12:43] <jdub> is this for the initial setup phase, or the first boot phase?
[12:43] <Kamion> initial setup
[12:44] <Kamion> oem-config will ask you for a username/password/etc. if and only if there isn't a non-privileged user already
[12:44] <jdub> maybe create an 'oem' user that is removed on cleanup?
[12:44] <jdub> perhaps preseed oem:oem
[12:45] <Kamion> ... and hope that the OEMs don't decide to install openssh-server? ;-)
[12:46] <jdub> i don't get what that would break
[12:46] <Kamion> the system is networked on firstboot; if we have a default password and the OEM decides to install openssh-server, you can start trying to opportunistically ssh to places with oem:oem
[12:47] <Kamion> hmm, another option could be to ask the OEM to set a root password, and disable root again in oem-config
[12:47] <Kamion> OEMs should be able to cope
[12:47] <jdub> but you want them to log in as an unprivileged user
[12:47] <Kamion> I don't want the OEM to log in at all
[12:47] <jdub> and be able to happily kill off that user
[12:47] <jdub> ah,ok
[12:47] <Kamion> oem-config runs as root with a special display manager
[12:47] <Kamion> it has to run as root anyway
[12:48] <jdub> so how do i munge files?
[12:48] <Kamion> oh, I think they might as well log in as root for that
[12:48] <Kamion> it's not like it should last long
[12:48] <jdub> so no user, but they get root
[12:48] <Kamion> and they'll always be munging system files, never user config
[12:48] <jdub> yeah
[12:49] <jdub> i guess oems can handle lack of purty desktop
[12:49] <jdub> we can say "suffer in your jocks" in the documentation
[12:49] <Kamion> probably depends on the OEM
[12:49] <Kamion> so the flow at the moment is roughly:
[12:50] <Kamion> first stage mostly as normal (modulo different username/password stage)
[12:50] <Kamion> second stage mostly as normal, but at the end of base-config, it offers to let you run a system test
[12:50] <Kamion> which is hwdb-client with the serial numbers filed off
[12:50] <jdub> heh
[12:51] <Kamion> when that exits, you get the gdm login screen, and can mess around
[12:51] <jdub> as root?
[12:51] <Kamion> (I guess that would be inconvenient without a root user - doesn't gdm forbid logging in as root by default these days?)
[12:52] <jdub> yeah :-)
[12:52] <jdub> perhaps not running gdm would be the right thing to do there
[12:52] <Kamion> then when you next reboot, you get oem-config popping up; when you finish with that, you get gdm
[12:52] <jdub> "now you can log in and muck around, or shut down ready for duplication"
[12:52] <Kamion> alternatively, we could create an oem user as you say, but make the OEM supply a password
[12:52] <Kamion> that would satisfy my concerns
[12:53] <jdub> seems a little bit more ubuntuish
[12:53] <Kamion> and avoid awkwardnesses with running as root
[12:53] <jdub> ooh, we could set a background image with "HEY! DON'T SAVE STUFF HERE! THIS USER WILL BE REMOVED!"
[12:53] <jdub> or maybe a translated zenity popup :-)
[12:58] <Kamion> jdub: ESTRINGFREEZE
[12:58] <Kamion> but apart from that, sure ;)
[12:59] <jdub> heh
[12:59] <jdub> hey spayne
[12:59] <jdub> congratulations on finally choosing a distribution
[12:59] <jdub> though i'll reserve full judgement until next week
[12:59] <jdub> :-)
[01:00] <spayne> next week?
[01:00] <Kamion> so ok, we preseed username = oem, fullname = "OEM Configuration", suffer a slightly obscure password prompt, and say something at the end of oem-config-test to tell them that they can log in as the oem user with the password they provided
[01:00] <jdub> when you change your mind again
[01:00] <spayne> jdub: what happens next week
[01:00] <Kamion> I guess that'll work, with sufficient docs
[01:00] <Kamion> cheers jdub
[01:00] <jdub> Kamion: obscure because it's "enter password for ... say what?"
[01:00] <Kamion> yeah
[01:01] <Kamion> but a pain to fix at this stage
[01:01] <Kamion> although we could let them enter the username of their choice, too ...
[01:01] <jdub> Kamion: i can write up some stuff about doing system-level defaults configuration with gconf-editor for this, btw
[01:01] <jdub> and just delete all users?
[01:01] <Kamion> just makes it a little less trivial to delete later, but not insuperably so
[01:01] <jdub> seems bong
[01:01] <Kamion> remember the first one, delete that
[01:01] <Kamion> or check the name from the installer debconf db
[01:02] <jdub> surely we'd have to delete all users-- hrm
[01:02] <jdub> hmmm
[01:02] <ajmitch> jdub: good podcast :)
[01:02] <Kamion> I think if we looked up the name that the installer created, that would do
[01:02] <Kamion> people who run oem-config on non-OEM installs would kinda lose though
[01:03] <jdub> what do we do about uid 1001+ ? :)
[01:03] <Kamion> we delete the OEM user *before* running adduser
[01:03] <Kamion> the oem user wouldn't be used in the end-user-firstboot stage anyway
[01:04] <Kamion> could easily set a special preseeded flag to say that it's an OEM install and it's OK to delete the first user
[01:05] <jdub> right, but what if the intention of the dude installing the system is to prime it with, like, four role-based admin users?
[01:06] <Kamion> could tell them that the user they created is only temporary, and to add additional users if they want users to persist
[01:07] <Kamion> as long as it's only the installer-created user that's temporary, it doesn't seem too bad
[01:07] <Kamion> dunno, it's a bit awkward
[01:07] <jdub> perhaps, for this version, we should just document that it's only intended for the single user case, and we can worry about the other cases later :)
[01:08] <jdub> infinity: so you can log in and set stuff up
[01:08] <infinity> What's wrong with the pre-first-boot bypassing login?
[01:09] <infinity> If you want them to have GUI config tools on that pre-first-boot, just do a hard startx, bypassing both login and gdm.
[01:09] <infinity> Then when they're done, put the proper first-boot sequence in place.
[01:10] <jdub> running as root? bah
[01:10] <infinity> They need to gain root to do any system configs ANYWAY.
[01:10] <jdub> Kamion: maybe you could create the oem user with uid 20000
[01:10] <infinity> I don't really see the difference here.
[01:10] <Kamion> jdub: btw, oem-config doubles as a proof-of-concept of the debconf+python+glade idea we discussed way back in Oxford
[01:10] <jdub> infinity: running everything as root sucks
[01:10] <jdub> Kamion: oh, seriously? rad!
[01:11] <infinity> jdub : <shrug>... I'm just seeing this as an extension of the (run-as-root) installer.
[01:11] <Kamion> yeah, I filter the debconf protocol and pop up python/glade dialogs whose answers are then fed back into the debconf db before returning control
[01:11] <jdub> how much does that help a future ubuntuexpress?
[01:11] <infinity> It's not like they're logging in to USE the system, just configure an image.
[01:11] <jdub> infinity: being d-i, which i trust more in a user's hands running as root than, say, nautilus
[01:11] <Kamion> jdub: I tried to make it fairly generic, although it's rather hard to write code in that model; we'll see
[01:12] <Kamion> I tend to agree with jdub here
[01:12] <infinity> jdub : What are you afraid nautilus will do, and what, precisely, are we trying to prevent these oems from doing?
[01:12] <Kamion> although using nautilus to do stuff as root when you aren't root is hideously painful, no?
[01:12] <jdub> infinity: "hrm, look at all this crap, /me drags /dev to the trash"
[01:12] <Kamion> either we tell them to do everything at a shell, or we run nautilus as root ...
[01:12] <infinity> No one would, they'd just fire up a console, sudo themselves, and fiddle that way.
[01:12] <jdub> Kamion: yes
[01:13] <infinity> And if we're telling them to do everything with a shell, then they don't need X at all, and still don't need an OEM user.
[01:13] <jdub> and every time a possibility is mentioned, it's better solved in other ways
[01:13] <Kamion> yeah, we could just shove them into a login shell
[01:13] <infinity> jdub : If an OEM drops /dev in the trash, I hardly think that's our problem.
[01:13] <infinity> jdub : They can do the same on the command line, too.
[01:13] <jdub> infinity: but we're not. i would like to write gconf-editor docs for setting defaults and stuff.
[01:14] <jdub> infinity: nevertheless, running the entire desktop as root is crack, and we don't have to anyway
[01:14] <infinity> jdub : You can just run X with gconf-editor as the foreground application. :)
[01:14] <Kamion> jdub: re above, I don't think the uid of the oem user really makes a significant difference
[01:15] <jdub> Kamion: so, i reckon making an oem user with a weird uid would work - if the dude setting it up adds users, they get to exist at 1000+ -> in fact, we could even skip user creation in first boot if uid 1000 exists
[01:15] <infinity> (But seriously, I'm just trying to understand what you intend to prevent.  People can delete things all manner of ways, if an OEM breaks their image due to stupidity, that's not our problem)
[01:15] <Kamion> we already skip it in that circumstance, but I still don't see how that makes the slightest difference
[01:15] <infinity> The OEM is meant to be another handholding buffer between us and the user, not someone's whose hand WE have to hold.
[01:15] <jdub> infinity: i intend to prevent any desktops running as root.
[01:15] <infinity> (In general)
[01:16] <Kamion> although, hmm, I guess it means OEMs can add a user at 1000 and then have the firstboot prompt skipped
[01:16] <infinity> Kamion : The only nice thing about using a weird uid is that they get 1000 for adduser.
[01:16] <Kamion> ok, I can see how that would work
[01:16] <jdub> Kamion: hrm; if the oem user is created as uid 1000, and i create another one, it's 1001 -> so you can never skip first boot user configuration because there's never a uid 1000 user
[01:16] <jdub> yes
[01:16] <Kamion> jdub: yeah, gotcha, belatedly :)
[01:16] <jdub> :-)
[01:17] <jdub> that'd be rad
[01:17] <jdub> i think that solves the server case
[01:17] <Kamion> ok, if I can make passwd.config do that somehow, I will
[01:17] <jdub> very neatly!
[01:17] <infinity> ... server?
[01:17] <jdub> sweet :-)
[01:17] <jdub> infinity: we were talking about a case above where you want to prime the machine with a bunch of users
[01:17] <hno73> Kamion, Riddell, mdz: did you guys get my email about space constraints on the live CD?
[01:17] <jdub> it's the kind of thing that would help when building departmental server images and stuff like that
[01:18] <hno73> Is 650MB a hard limit?
[01:18] <infinity> jdub : Yeah, but I'd also assume that an oem-config server setup would start with ubuntu's "server" install, so no GUI, no frills, and we can just drop you into a root shell.  The oem user there would be useless (as you'd just "sudo su -" out of the oem user's shell to configure it anyway)
[01:19] <hno73> If so, I have a new suggestion. But OOo2, FF and perhaps Gaim on the Ubuntu CD
[01:19] <Kamion> hno73: we've been discussing that a lot. I think moving past 650MB for the Ubuntu live CD will get me a lot more bug reports; I already get a *LOT* due to bad media
[01:19] <Kamion> hno73: but it's not hard, just the subject of debate
[01:19] <hno73> and all sorts of other cool winfoss on the Kubuntu one
[01:20] <Kamion> hno73: frankly, I'd much rather use extra space on the Ubuntu live CD for language packs
[01:20] <infinity> Where does one find either a burner or a CD blank limited to 650MB anymore?
[01:20] <jdub> infinity: well, that's a different issue to the multiple user problem we were figuiring out :)
[01:20] <Kamion> hno73: our live CD is English-only right now, due to space constraints. This sucks.
[01:20] <hno73> Kamion: I agree
[01:20] <jdub> Kamion: i'm excited. :-)
[01:20] <Kamion> infinity: pretty sure I've seen them for sale in the UK
[01:20] <hno73> How much space could you sensibly use?
[01:20] <Kamion> not that unrecently
[01:20] <infinity> Kamion : The UK is weird.
[01:20] <jdub> Kamion: which means i'm going to pimp it more. which is dangerous. ;-)
[01:20] <Kamion> hno73: arbitrary; probably ask pitti for numbers
[01:21] <Kamion> he's got some table somewhere of what they add up to
[01:21] <Kamion> *ideally*, I'd like to have the top dozen or so languages there
[01:21] <Kamion> but I suspect this is an unrealisable ideal
[01:21] <Kamion> jdub: as long as you try it first so that you know what you're pimping :-)
[01:21] <hno73> Kamion: So If we dump OOo2 and a few minor things, we can have the whole winfoss part down to 40-50mb
[01:22] <infinity> Could we produce two sets of ISOs, at 650 and 700?
[01:22] <jdub> Kamion: haha
[01:22] <Kamion> infinity: no thanks
[01:22] <infinity> (The pressed ones can be 700 with no real issues)
[01:22] <Nafallo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/support-bysize.txt
[01:22] <Kamion> I have enough to test
[01:22] <infinity> Yeah, true that.
[01:23] <hno73> If we add OOo2 to the pressed version only, that shouldn't involve any testing
[01:24] <hno73> All ISOs would have the same language packs (quite a few)
[01:24] <Kamion> hno73: sorry, but I really have to refuse to have different pressed and burned images
[01:24] <infinity> We'd need to test the larger ISO to make sure OOo2 isn't borked.
[01:24] <hno73> The download version would be sans OOo2 and pressed with it
[01:24] <Kamion> it's just not an option for me
[01:24] <Kamion> we have 27 images for release at the moment
[01:25] <Kamion> no, 24, no Edubuntu live CD
[01:25] <hno73> Kamion: OK, I'm sure you have good reasons for that
[01:25] <hno73> right, ok
[01:25] <infinity> Time constraints, I'm with Kamion, though I think it sucks.
[01:25] <Kamion> and ultimately, *somebody* has to manually sanity-check every one before release
[01:25] <Kamion> even if it's only once ...
[01:25] <Nafallo> maybe we should skip winfoss on the *ubuntu-cds and point people to theopencd...
[01:26] <Kamion> if nobody else does it, that somebody ends up being me
[01:26] <hno73> Do the same language packs generally gt used for Ubuntu and Kubuntu?
[01:26] <Kamion> hno73: so, I'm kind of ambivalent about 650MB/no-OOo2 vs. 700MB/OOo2
[01:26] <Kamion> hno73: different selection
[01:27] <Kamion> hno73: I'm probably going to give into using 700MB CDs, but I think it's a shame to do that without improving our language support at the same time
[01:27] <hno73> Kamion: well, I can prepare both versions so we can decide close up to the wire if need be
[01:28] <Kamion> hno73: so, 130MB for the tarball with OOo2 uses up 30MB of the extra, which leaves 20MB; if we can get a sensible number of extra langs into that, I think that's worth it
[01:28] <Kamion> I'm not sure what the numbers for Kubuntu are at the moment; IIRC they're already oversized for 650MB
[01:28] <Kamion> so the tradeoffs may be different there
[01:28] <hno73> Kamion: cool, let me try to slim it down even a bit more
[01:29] <Kamion> from pitti's table, it looks like an extra 20MB should easily give us the top-dozen languages
[01:30] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, what will caving in give you? A year from now, we'll have added some more goodies, and this discussion will go about using dvd-images
[01:31] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: that's certainly the problem
[01:31] <Kamion> maybe then we go beat up sabdfl to remove the python modules from desktop ;-)
[01:31] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, if only we'd want to use mono/beagle and that auric applet that lives in gnome-cvs, that'd be your 20mb gone.
[01:32] <Kamion> but I'll fight my future battles when it's the future
[01:32] <Kamion> we might as well fill up the images we've got now
[01:32] <HiddenWolf> :)
[01:32] <Kamion> and look at the FirstAgainstTheWall spec at UBZ
[01:33] <Kamion> if we keep the install CD to 650MB, then it's not a showstopper if the live CD grows to 700MB
[01:33] <Kamion> and the install CD isn't under so much pressure
[01:34] <Kamion> anyway, it's Saturday, off to do weekend things
[01:34] <jdub> later Kamion
[01:35] <TheMuso> O/c
[01:36] <pitti> Hi
[01:37] <ajmitch> hi pitti
[01:40] <jdong> pitti: what's the status on that firefox backport?
[01:41] <pitti> jdong: on my list for next week, unless Diziet is faster
[01:41] <pitti> jdong: do you have a debdiff already?
[01:41] <jdong> pitti: no :(
[01:42] <jdong> pitti: I'll be patient :)
[01:53] <crevette> why ubuntu doesn't provide an MTA anymore ?
[01:54] <pitti> crevette: we provide two, but not by default
[01:54] <pitti> crevette: the reason is mainly our "no open ports in the default install" policy
[01:54] <crevette> pitti> yeah I know, but in the old days postfix was provided
[01:54] <pitti> crevette: so we had to cripple postfix in warty and hoary
[01:54] <crevette> :)
[01:55] <pitti> crevette: yes, but it didn't really work
[01:55] <pitti> crevette: now, if you need need an MTA, just install exim or postfix and get something working
[01:55] <crevette> done
[01:55] <crevette> :)
[01:58] <Chipzz> hi
[01:58] <Chipzz> something is wrong with the usplash package I suspect
[01:58] <infinity> Define "something".
[01:58] <Chipzz> I've been getting this message for the past couple of days:
[01:58] <fabbione> are lists.u.c down?
[01:59] <Chipzz> Setting up linux-image-2.6.12-9-686 (2.6.12-9.19) ...
[01:59] <Chipzz> cpio: ./usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so: No such file or directory
[01:59] <infinity> fabbione : I think so.
[01:59] <fabbione> i can see new source pkgs.. but no mails to changes
[01:59] <fabbione> infinity: ok
[01:59] <infinity> Chipzz : sudp update-alternative --auto usplash-artwork.so && sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
[01:59] <Chipzz> I tried googling for that message, but no luck; also no luck on packages.ubuntu.com for /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so
[01:59] <infinity> Chipzz : You're a casualty of tracking breezy a bit TOO closely, and the upgrade path from the one broken version being a bit wrong.
[02:00] <infinity> Chipzz : s/update-alternative/update-alternatives/
[02:00] <infinity> If only I could type...
[02:00] <Chipzz> infinity: aha; so, why wasn't there anything in the changelogs?
[02:01] <Chipzz> I have apt-listchanges installed; a mention of that would have fixed the problem for me
[02:01] <infinity> Chipzz : Changelogs usually don't mention when the current code is broken. :)
[02:01] <infinity> * Inserted bug; cope.
[02:02] <infinity> I meant to fix it in the usplash upload I did, but I think I got sidetracked due to it being 9am and me not having slept the previous night.
[02:03] <Chipzz> infinity: well, it's fixed now :)
[02:03] <Chipzz> infinity: thx for the help :)
[02:17] <spayne> nice new artwork!
[03:20] <bddebian> Hello
[03:45] <eruin> pitti, here?
[03:48] <pitti> Hi eruin
[03:52] <CarlFK> Anyone know were the Sep 29/30 messages are? http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-September/thread.html
[03:52] <CarlFK> or I guess, why aren't they there?
[03:52] <Chipzz> infinity: more usplash(-related) brokeness (I suspect)
[03:53] <Chipzz> before (when usplash didn't) work, I could shutdown gdm from the console (with sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop)
[03:55] <Chipzz> now (usplash working), if I do that, gdm shuts down, but the text-console is garbled (well, not exactly garbled, but the bottom half is empty when before it was not), and doesn't show any text I type (if it is accepted at all, which I'm not sure)
[03:55] <Chipzz> ctrl-alt-delete does work though
[03:56] <Chipzz> but shutting down gdm from within X (same command as above) does not give these problems
[03:57] <Chipzz> (nvidia (GeForce 2 Go) chipset btw
[04:06] <infinity> Chipzz : Chipset shouldn't matter. :)  Let me look at that.
[04:07] <infinity> Chipzz : gdm stop from a virtual terminal (ie: text console)?
[04:09] <infinity> Bah.
[04:09] <infinity> Chipzz : You're being dumped to tty8 after you stop gdm.  If you hit Ctrl-Alt-1, you'll get a useable console.
[04:12] <Chipzz> infinity: nopes
[04:12] <Chipzz> hitting alt-f1 does not work
[04:12] <Chipzz> tried that
[04:13] <infinity> Chipzz : Well, that's what happens to me here.  I get dumped in vc8, which isn't actually active.
[04:13] <Chipzz> if I hit alt-f8, it shows the bootup messages
[04:13] <Chipzz> (hit alt-f8 when it still works)
[04:13] <mvo> Chipzz: what do you see on vt1-6? nothing at all? (alt-f1-6)
[04:14] <Chipzz> mvo: no reaction, nothing works
[04:14] <Chipzz> except cad
[04:15] <infinity> mvo : Who do I blame for usplash running on vc8?.. I can't find it in the changelog.
[04:15] <Chipzz> it actually *is* dumping me back to tty1, which is where I shut down gdm from
[04:15] <mvo> not login prompt anywhere? strange
[04:15] <mvo> infinity: uplash -c runs it in vt8. it's like this forever
[04:15] <infinity> Chipzz : Oh, that's more curious.
[04:15] <Chipzz> mvo: it shows half what was on the screen before - which is the login prompt
[04:15] <infinity> mvo : Oh.  Maybe I'm unobservant, then.
[04:15] <Chipzz> but it is not active
[04:16] <mvo> infinity: but it was broken by jbailey when he moved udevstart after usplash and /dev/tty8 wasn't created
[04:16] <Chipzz> ie no blinking cursor or anything
[04:16] <infinity> mvo : I assume us getting dumped back to vc8 is because gdm stores the last vc we were on when it runs?...
[04:16] <mvo> infinity: probably, yes
[04:16] <infinity> But Chipzz thing is more fun...
[04:16] <mvo> infinity: if you run without gdm, the usplash stop script takes care of chvt
[04:17] <Chipzz> btw, if I shutdown gdm from within x, and then start it again from the console, stopping it fmor the console works as expected
[04:17] <infinity> Chipzz : Typing gets you nothing?... "reset", "clear", etc?
[04:17] <Chipzz> s/fmor/from/
[04:17] <Chipzz> infinity: nothing at all
[04:17] <mvo> Chipzz: if you run without usplash everything works fine I assume?
[04:17] <Chipzz> well, nothing that shows up on the screen anyway
[04:17] <Chipzz> mvo: yes, then everything works fine
[04:18] <infinity> Chipzz : Anything that doesn't show up on the screen?... ie, try "sudo reboot". :)
[04:18] <infinity> I want to know if the VC is dead, or just... invisible.
[04:18] <Chipzz> infinity: would access to the laptop help any?
[04:19] <infinity> Chipzz : Only if it was in my hands...
[04:19] <Chipzz> I can give you an account if you wish
[04:19] <infinity> Stuff like this is hard to "see" without seeing.
[04:20] <Chipzz> well I do have a desktop here that I can get online frmo at the same time
[04:20] <infinity> Hrm.
[04:20] <infinity> Well, an account may help.
[04:21] <infinity> Maybe I can hack at stuff remotely and have you test things.
[04:21] <slomo> elmo: please sync swt-gtk from debian... this one builds on amd64
[04:23] <Chipzz> infinity: hmmm I was messaging you in private, but you seem to have messages form unregistered users disabled
[04:23] <mvo> Chipzz: I wonder if that might be caused by the recent addition of the vesafb driver?
[04:24] <infinity> Doesn't freenode have that disabled, period?
[04:24] <infinity> mvo : I'm using vesafb with usplash.
[04:24] <azeem> you can opt-in
[04:24] <jdub> you can turn it back on again
[04:24] <Chipzz> I think the messages stuff was enabled by default
[04:24] <infinity> Ahh, how do I opt in?
[04:24] <Chipzz> mvo: not sure
[04:26] <mvo> Chipzz: you could disable it (for testing) in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/usplash ... (and then re-generate your initrd)
[04:26] <Chipzz> mvo: let me try that
[04:26] <mvo> infinity: maybe your vesa-bios behaves differently (i.e. better)
[04:27] <infinity> I dunno... Once the fb is actually loaded, it should either work or not work.
[04:27] <infinity> There's not a lot of grey area there.
[04:27] <segfault> hello.
[04:27] <infinity> (Except when doing fun things like suspend/resume)
[04:27] <mvo> infinity: hm, ok
[04:28] <Chipzz> mvo: change line 25, I presume?
[04:30] <Chipzz> ok, so entering a command when the console is in that state doesn't work either
[04:31] <Chipzz> (sudo reboot does not work)
[04:31] <mvo> Chipzz: I assume it does not work for your without vga= something?
[04:31] <infinity> Alright, so it's not invisible or black-on-black or anything, the VC is actually just plain not there.
[04:32] <Chipzz> it shows the first 13 lines of vc1
[04:32] <Chipzz> no cursor
[04:32] <mvo> Chipzz: in this case, forgot the vesa change
[04:32] <Chipzz> but I can ssh into it
[04:32] <mvo> if you have no keyboard ..
[04:32] <Chipzz> mvo: I made the vesa change, but have not actually rebooted with the new ramfs
[04:33] <Chipzz> mvo: I do, because ctrl-alt-delete reboots the laptop
[04:33] <Chipzz> or do I?
[04:33] <infinity> Chipzz : If you ssh in and "rmmod vesafb ; insmod vesafb", does that do anything interesting?
[04:33] <Chipzz> hmmm wait
[04:34] <infinity> s/insmod/modprobe/
[04:34] <Chipzz> If I press alt-f1
[04:34] <Chipzz> and then type sudo reboot
[04:34] <Chipzz> it does reboot
[04:34] <infinity> Ahh.
[04:34] <infinity> Right, you're being parked on vc8 when gdm exits, we established that.
[04:34] <infinity> And vc8 isn't active, so no keyboard input.
[04:34] <infinity> So, then you hit vc1, and you can type, but get no output?
[04:34] <infinity> FUN.
[04:34] <Chipzz> the screen shows (the upper half) tty1 when coming from X though, but I suspect it actually is on tty8
[04:35] <infinity> How do you know it's the upper half of tty1?
[04:35] <Chipzz> parked on vc8, but with the output of vc1
[04:35] <infinity> vc8 should have all the init script output junk on it.
[04:35] <Chipzz> because I was editing the file mentioned before on tty1, and it shows the remains of vim
[04:35] <infinity> Ahh. :)
[04:36] <infinity> Kay.  Even more curious.
[04:36] <infinity> Chipzz : Did you regen your initramfs yet?.. If not, don't.
[04:37] <Chipzz> I did
[04:37] <Chipzz> hmm curious
[04:37] <janimo> I have a dpatch situation
[04:37] <Chipzz> it doesn't show the last line completely
[04:37] <janimo> there's a debian/patches/00_patch
[04:37] <janimo> and I want to fix the same problem (conflicting patches differently)
[04:37] <infinity> Chipzz : Oh, wait.  Are you using vga16fb, or vesafb?
[04:38] <janimo> do I make a 01 which applies over 00
[04:38] <infinity> Chipzz : (do you have "vga=nnn" on the command line?)
[04:38] <janimo> or patch the debian patch itself?
[04:38] <Chipzz> it shows "Ubuntu comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by"
[04:38] <janimo> I assume 1 is cleaner but may need additional rules file hacking
[04:38] <infinity> janimo : Tailor the Debian patch, if you want to change it.
[04:38] <Chipzz> but the curly thing under the y is chopped off, so it looks like a u
[04:38] <infinity> janimo : If you want to change different things, add your own patch.
[04:38] <janimo> tailor, you mean overwrite it with myversion right?
[04:38] <jdub> "Ubuntu comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by this character encoding."
  Can you check some of my code for IPv6-correctness
[04:51] <Chipzz> hmmm after commenting out the vesa stuff :P
[04:51] <Chipzz> which amy explain :P
[04:51] <Chipzz> but I think that shouldn't matter
[04:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: sure.. if it's not too complex
[04:52] <Chipzz> garbage from the moment there should be kernel messages
[04:52] <Chipzz> so even before usplash starts
[04:52] <infinity> Erm, the vga=??? stuff only works with vesa. :)
[04:52] <mjg59> Chipzz: Commented out what vesa stuff?
[04:52] <Chipzz> infinity: yes, but the vesa module is still included, right?
[04:52] <Keybuk> fabbione: just "open a socket, look up a host and connect to it"
[04:52] <fabbione> Keybuk: i can also test it :)
[04:52] <infinity> mjg59 : You missed the part where mvo had him comment out vesafb from init-top. :)
[04:52] <Keybuk> fabbione: http://www.netsplit.com/bzr/live-f1/src/stream.c
[04:53] <mjg59> Oh, right. Yes, that's not going to work.
[04:53] <mjg59> It'll be loading vga16fb, which will then explode everything
[04:53] <fabbione> Keybuk: checking now
[04:53] <Chipzz> mjg59: changed line 25 of /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/usplash
[04:53] <infinity> Speaking of exploding, I think I'm going to go pretend it's the weekend some more.
[04:54] <Chipzz> infinity: have a nice weekend :)
[04:54] <Chipzz> infinity: thx :)
[04:54] <mjg59> Chipzz: Reinstall usplash and regenerate your initramfs
[04:55] <mjg59> mvo: Uh, adding vesafb support to usplash changed nothing. The only thing that happens now is that vesafb gets loaded before usplash instead of after it
[04:55] <Chipzz> I changed the line back to the original and am regenerating the initramfs
[04:56] <mvo> mjg59: ok, thanks for explaining that
[04:58] <fabbione> Keybuk: it looks ok, but there is only one thing you don't parse
[04:58] <Keybuk> fabbione: oh?
[04:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: struct addrinfo has a pointer to a list
[04:59] <fabbione> hey Saba_Z
[04:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: because the same host name can have multiple ips
[04:59] <Saba_Z> fabbione: Hey
[04:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: with your way (that works) you always hit the first one
[04:59] <Keybuk> right, I should iterate that and not just try the first one?
[04:59] <fabbione> Saba_Z: satisfied? ;)
[04:59] <fabbione> Keybuk: it depends from glibc behaviour.. really
[05:00] <Saba_Z> fabbione: thanks , lots of fun:D
[05:00] <Keybuk> *nods*
[05:00] <fabbione> Saba_Z: cool! :)
[05:00] <fabbione> Keybuk: but anyway.. for a first shot is fine
[05:00] <Keybuk> cool
[05:00] <Keybuk> been a while since I done it
[05:00] <Keybuk> thanks
[05:00] <fabbione> Keybuk: you might want to try to use other ip's (if any) in case you fail to open a connection with the first one
[05:01] <Saba_Z> fabbione: i cant continue the projectb but reza promised me to continue it with his friends
[05:01] <fabbione> Saba_Z: oh..
[05:01] <fabbione> i see
[05:01] <Saba_Z> fabbione: what are the most important things which are missing ?
[05:01] <fabbione> Saba_Z: for now it looks fine
[05:02] <fabbione> Saba_Z: but we will talk about it again at UBZ
[05:02] <Saba_Z> fabbione: ubz?
[05:03] <Chipzz> aha
[05:03] <Chipzz> all works fine with vga=791
[05:03] <fabbione> Saba_Z: Ubuntu Below Zero.. next conference in Montreal
[05:03] <Chipzz> (and line commented back in)
[05:03] <fabbione> Saba_Z: wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero
[05:04] <Saba_Z> fabbione: i think there should be a better linux support for authentication
[05:04] <fabbione> Saba_Z: you are welcome to add your ideas in the wiki.. or mail them to me
[05:04] <fabbione> Saba_Z: because there will probably be another SoC next year
[05:04] <fabbione> Saba_Z: and proposing improvement won't be an issue i guess
[05:04] <segfault> update-notifier is not completely translated after the languague pack released yesterday, although it is fully translated in Rosetta. Does anyone know why?
[05:05] <Saba_Z> fabbione: yes , but i work just for fun ..
[05:06] <fabbione> Saba_Z: it has to be fun first!
[05:06] <fabbione> Saba_Z: i am just sad you won't continue working on it
[05:06] <fabbione> because you have done an excellent job
[05:07] <Saba_Z> fabbione: i dont continue the development as an active developer but i will help the new developers to continue until they get started
[05:07] <fabbione> Saba_Z: that's good too
[05:07] <mvo> segfault: what bits are missing in the translation?
[05:08] <fabbione> Keybuk: you also want to add a check for the socktype you are asking and the one you get back from calling getaddrinfo
[05:08] <fabbione> Keybuk: that might be another reason for parsing the list
[05:08] <Saba_Z> fabbione: and i can work on spare time
[05:08] <fabbione> otherwise we should check how glibc will return that list sorted
[05:08] <segfault> mvo: the main app is untranslated, like the strings "Packages to install:", "Software Updates", "Available Updates"...
[05:08] <fabbione> Saba_Z: sure :)
[05:08] <fabbione> Saba_Z: that's what a lot of people already do
[05:09] <Keybuk> fabbione: the docs say that asking for a particular socktype means you only get those back
[05:13] <fabbione> Keybuk: what manpage are you looking at?
[05:14] <Keybuk> Stevens Unix Network Programming v1 (second edition)
[05:14] <fabbione> i am reading man getaddrinfo
[05:14] <fabbione> -ENOSUCHBOOK
[05:14] <fabbione>        The  hints  parameter specifies the preferred socket type, or protocol.
[05:15] <fabbione> "preferred" is the keyword for me to say that it will return all of them
[05:15] <fabbione> but well..
[05:21] <Saba_Z>  Isn't there any breezy+1goals yet?
[05:21] <Nafallo> Saba_Z: no
[05:22] <jdub> new feature on the fridge! :)
[05:22] <Nafallo> yay
[05:22] <jdub> on the left hand side there's a "shuffle"
[05:22] <jdub> it shows random cool stuff :-)
[05:22] <tseng> not seeing it
[05:22] <jdub> RELOAD HARDER
[05:23] <jdub> whoa, n/a
[05:23] <Nafallo> yes
[05:23] <Nafallo> I see n/a :-P
[05:23] <infinity> mvo : Do you have open bug reports about update-notifier spinning the CPU for no good reason out of the blue?
[05:24] <infinity> mvo : Cause it's just started eating mine..
[05:31] <glick> hello
[05:31] <glick> you guys are all cvs experts id imagine?
[05:32] <jdong> glick: I think Ubuntu devs are more bazaar/svn/svk experts :)
[05:32] <glick> in cvs do should you update before you submit?
[05:33] <glick> an update wont just over write your file will it?
[05:33] <bmonty> glick: yes and no
[05:34] <CarlFK> glick - in svn, you will get a confict and it will create file.1 and file.2
[05:34] <CarlFK> guessing cvs is the same.
[05:34] <bmonty> cvs won't overwrite your local changes
[05:34] <jdong> glick: depends on the situation
[05:34] <jdong> glick: in no case is any information lost
[05:34] <CarlFK> as long as we are OT, anyone in charge aware about problems with the mail lists ?
[05:34] <glick> ok kool
[05:34] <jdong> glick: when changes are made in different parts of files, they're both "merged" together automagically
[05:35] <jdong> glick: but when there's overlap, CVS will mark your file as conflicting, and allow you to manually merge together the changes
[05:35] <jdong> glick: then again, your fixed merge could theoretically conflict, and you can be spending the rest of your life and afterlife resolving conflicts :)
[05:35] <Chipzz> jdong: no, it will insert ugly markers
[05:35] <Chipzz> <<<<<<<<<<<<
[05:35] <Chipzz> [05:35] <Chipzz> >>>>>>>>>>>>
[05:35] <jdong> Chipzz: well, that's CVS's way of "helping you out" ;)
[05:35] <Chipzz> like that
[05:36] <Chipzz> doesn't exactly qualiify as "not modify" in my book
[05:37] <jdong> Chipzz: no; it doesn't. I never said that CVS doesn't modify your files. The merge symbols are especially annoying in certain preformatted syntaxes
[05:39] <jdub> Nafallo, tseng: fixed :)
[05:40] <jdub> spayne: you're monopolising the flickr results for ubuntu ;-)
[05:40] <Nafallo> jdong: I know :-)
[05:40] <Nafallo> jdub: ^ sorry :-P
[05:41] <jdong> Nafallo: tab button evil :)
[05:41] <Nafallo> indeed ;-)
[05:41] <spayne> jdub: is that a bad thing?
[05:41] <jsgotangco> hey hno73
[05:41] <spayne> Nafallo: are you a MOTU?
[05:41] <jdub> spayne: heh, no, just the top 10 results are your 'tour'
[05:41] <Nafallo> spacey: yes, and in a meeting ;-)
[05:41] <hno73> jsgotangco: hey
[05:42] <jdub> so the fridge's flickr shuffle is all you
[05:42] <Nafallo> lol
[05:42] <Nafallo> solly :-P
[05:42] <hno73> Has System -> Admin -> Boot options been removed on purpose?
[05:42] <jdub> hno73: seb128 may have disabled it because it sucks
[05:42] <hno73> The new kernel install removed my WinXP Grub link
[05:43] <spayne> Nafallo: when you are finished, could you check my resapplet package for me?
[05:43] <hno73> How to I set the boot options from the CLI?
[05:43] <jdub> hno73: edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[05:43] <hno73> What file do I edit?
[05:43] <Nafallo> spayne: dunno. I have a bunch of reallife stuff I have to take care of.
[05:43] <hno73> jdub: thanks :)
[05:43] <jdub> title           Windows XP
[05:43] <jdub> root            (hd0,1)
[05:43] <jdub> chainloader     +1
[05:43] <jdub> boot
[05:43] <jdub>
[05:44] <hno73> great
[05:44] <jdub> ^ stick one of those in, changing the root spec depending on disk/partition
[05:44] <hno73> I don't often use XP, but I really do need it now :)
[05:45] <jdub> your secret is safe with us
[05:46] <jsgotangco> jdub: hmm you need to send the article to an editor to post to fridge?
[05:47] <jdub> jsgotangco: atm yeah
[05:47] <jdub> jsgotangco<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:47] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[05:48] <Chipzz> other question... anyone with an alps touchpad working on ubuntu? I had the scrolling functionality working a while ago, but then it broke...
[05:48] <jsgotangco> Chipzz: mine's borked as well in a Tecra
[05:48] <Chipzz> (the reason I'm asking here is I have had it working with this config a while back, so something must have changed...)
[05:49] <Chipzz> hmmmm :/
[05:49] <hno73> jdub: I've emailed you output from that live CD; lo and /etc/hosts
[05:49] <hno73> seems lo is enabled
[05:51] <glick> hey is it possible in ubuntu to have a icon on your desktop that when you click on it it opens up a console ssh shell on a remoe machine without the need to put in your password and such?
[05:51] <Treenaks> glick: sure
[05:52] <glick> Treenaks, how?
[05:52] <mjr> yes, by using ssh-agent for authentication (should be started automatically, you need to ssh-add) and creating the appropriate shortcut
[05:52] <Treenaks> glick: just create a regular one, which asks for a password
[05:52] <Treenaks> glick: then look up how ssh-agent works :) it's started automatically, all you need is ssh-add and a key
[05:53] <Chipzz> heh
[05:53] <Chipzz> ssh is outdated :P use rsh with kerberos enabled :P
[05:53] <Chipzz> ;)
[05:53] <Treenaks> Chipzz: does that encrypt everything?
[05:53] <Chipzz> no
[05:53] <Chipzz> but you do not have to enter a password ;)
[05:54] <jdub> the auth is secure, but what goes over the wire isn't
[05:54] <Chipzz> (and that remark was not intended seriously btw ;))
[05:54] <Treenaks> Chipzz: defeats the purpose then, what if you ssh from that remote host#
[05:54] <Chipzz> Treenaks: no problem if your ssh is kerberos-enabled
[05:55] <Chipzz> well actually there is more than one side to enabling kerberos for ssh, but that's another story
[05:57] <Chipzz> but if all you need is just secure authentication, kerberos is fine. makes sense for large file transfers over ftp for example
[05:59] <Treenaks> depends on the file and the network :)
[05:59] <Yagisan> so very true
[05:59] <Chipzz> say a movie for example
[05:59] <Chipzz> I couldn't care less if anyone noticed I was pulling over a 700MB movie :P
[06:00] <Chipzz> well maybe under some circumstances I would, but then :P
[06:01] <Chipzz> anyway scp/sftp make less sense there (cpu overhead for encryption), and ftp (without telnet) makes less sense too (password sniffable)
[06:01] <Yagisan> I'd rather ssh anyway (with my thin pipes I want compression enabled)
[06:01] <Yagisan> if you use blowfish - it's not much cpu overhead
[06:02] <Yagisan> my vpn endpoints are sub 300Mhz - they use blowfish and sit idle most of the time with full traffic load
[06:03] <Yagisan> but that is over 1500/256 adsl
[06:03] <Chipzz> it will still slow down the transfer
[06:04] <Treenaks> Chipzz: that's why my CPUs have VIA Padlock (i.e. on-die AES :))
[06:04] <Chipzz> I doubt you can use (not even close to) 100% capacity of a 100MB network
[06:04] <jsgotangco> night all
[06:04] <Yagisan> depends on the pipe - with my pipes we benchmarked it. the bottleneck is the pipe
[06:04] <Treenaks> Chipzz: padlock scales up to several gigabits afaik
[06:04] <Chipzz> well not 100% anyway, collisions and stuff
[06:04] <Yagisan> night jsgotangco
[06:05] <Chipzz> but then ssh has to be compiled iwth support for it
[06:05] <Treenaks> Chipzz: only openssl
[06:05] <tseng> jdub: i just see seb payne
[06:05] <Chipzz> same thing :)
[06:05] <tseng> jdub: no shuffle
[06:05] <tseng> jdub: oh
[06:05] <tseng> jdub: i get it
[06:05] <Chipzz> anyway this is hardly relevant here :)
[06:06] <Chipzz> and I have to go to the shop
[06:07] <jdub> tseng: there will be lots of different/cool/wacky stuff in the shuffle :)
[06:08] <tseng>  jdub i want a pony
[06:09] <tseng> *refreshes harder*
[06:11] <jdub> tseng: keep refreshing :)
[06:12] <Treenaks> argh! ipodder requires xmms
[06:16] <tseng> jdub: YES
[06:16] <robertj^> mdz: you handy?
[06:20] <eruin> hey, usplash worked fine on a fresh install of colony 5, but is now nowhere to be seen. should I submit a bug about this or is it intentional?
[06:21] <infinity> eruin : Do you see any error messages when you run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`"?
[06:22] <eruin> apart from a message about no splash image found, no
[06:23] <infinity> No cpio error, or such?
[06:23] <eruin> nope. I think it stopped working on a kernel upgrade
[06:24] <eruin> oh, wait
[06:24] <eruin> Yeah, I see a cpio error. can't find /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-artwork.so
[06:24] <infinity> Right.  I'll uplod a fix for that right now, it seems to have been more widespread than we thought.
[06:25] <eruin> sorry, I'm oblivious when it comes to non-english error messages ;-)
[06:25] <infinity> You can wait for that, or fix it with "sudo update-alternatives --auto usplash-artwork.so && sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`"
[06:26] <eruin> cheers
[06:36] <mjg59> jdub: Hello?
[06:36] <jdub> yo mjg59
[06:36] <mjg59> jdub: You were looking for me yesterday?
[06:37] <jdub> probably
[06:37] <jdub> oh yeah
[06:37] <jdub> i was asking about voip stuff
[06:37] <jdub> wanna do an interview some time?
[06:37] <mjg59> For what?
[06:37] <tseng> :D
[06:38] <jdub> for the fridge
[06:38] <jdub> about laptop mission, usplash, stuff like that
[06:39] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[06:39] <mjg59> Could do
[06:39] <mjg59> I've got no voip stuff, though
[06:39] <jdub> got windows?
[06:40] <mjg59> Oh, software-wise I can manage
[06:40] <mjg59> But I don't think I've got anything with a microphone
[06:40] <jdub> oh right
[06:40] <jdub> yo j^
[06:41] <jdub> j^: the trick is to figure out if there are any laser beams pointing at your windows, measuring vibrations
[06:41] <jdub> microphones are so old hat ;)
[06:43] <j^> you could use text2speech
[06:45] <robertj^> nows an excuse to go buy a bluetooth headset and adapter
[06:51] <slomo> multiverse packages are moved to multiverse automatically, right? i should not set the sections to multiverse/bla?
[07:17] <slomo> infinity / lamont-away: can you remove eclipse from asp? my next upload works at least on x86, ppc and amd64
[07:22] <jdub> slomo: ooh
[07:24] <slomo> jdub: ?
[07:25] <doko_> slomo: please don't touch eclipse.
[07:25] <slomo> narf
[07:25] <slomo> why?
[07:25] <slomo> now i worked the complete afternoon on it and you tell me not to touch :(
[07:26] <doko_> I told you already yesterday, the packages are ready
[07:26] <slomo> you did? i didn't noticed it then :( where are the packages?
[07:27] <doko_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/
[07:28] <slomo> thanks, i'll take a look at them... what is holding them back?
[07:29] <doko> the buildd's need the just uploaded gcj-4.0
[07:33] <slomo> ok... hm, looks nice... you used Michael Koch's package as a base? i took some patches from him and changed some minor stuff in rules to make it work... well, your's seems to be the cleaner solution as the old package had some other issues which michael fixed...
[07:34] <slomo> when do you plan to upload? this weekend?
[07:37] <slomo> doko
[07:39] <doko> tomorrow, when the buildd's have the new gcc
[07:40] <slomo> ok, fine :)
[07:40] <slomo> while you're at it you can also request a swt-gtk sync from elmo ;) this version now works with 64bit architectures
[07:51] <\sh> *yawn* beer, shower, xterm fix
[07:53] <harrytuttle> hi. is the zd1201 (wifi) firmware included somewhere? the driver is in 2.6.12 vanilla and apparently the firmware is released with mpl license, would be nice to have in breezy
[07:57] <harrytuttle> or is it non redistributable?
[08:00] <poningru> I wanted to talk to someone about one of the bofs for ubz
[08:01] <poningru> its the firefox plugin thing
[08:01] <zyga> poningru: and?
[08:01] <poningru> basically asking if anyone has an idea of implementing it
[08:01] <zyga> poningru: what is 'bofs'?
[08:02] <poningru> birds of a feather
[08:02] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
[08:02] <Nafallo> hmm
[08:02] <Nafallo> we should have DapperBirds instead of DapperGoals :-)
[08:03] <poningru> I had some ideas that I wanted to throw out there regarding that bof
[08:03] <zyga> a list of pre-defind repositories+descriptions/explanations that are easy to enable in gnome-software-properties
[08:04] <poningru> wouldnt it be better to have that in synaptic?
[08:06] <zyga> poningru: it's integrated with synaptic
[08:06] <poningru> oh ic
[08:06] <poningru> sorry
[08:09] <jdub> Nafallo: DapperEggs? ;)
[08:10] <Nafallo> jdub: no, the eggs are not involved in the making anymore :-). we use feathers these days ;-).
[08:10] <jdub> heh
[08:10] <maswan> regarding the BOFs there, can I add wiki informations to things important to me, despite it being (very) unlikely that I make it to UBZ?
[08:10] <jdub> and tar?
[08:11] <jdub> maswan: yeah, particularly if you write a spec
[08:11] <Nafallo> well, tar IS in main so... ;-)
[08:11] <maswan> jdub: we do have some perspectives to the (HPC) cluster thingies
[08:12] <jdub> maswan: rad
[08:12] <jdub> maswan: "my cluster filesystem is better than your cluster filesystem" ;-)
[08:12] <maswan> jdub: that, and some other thingies. "my matrix multiplication library is better than your matrix multiplication library" :)
[08:13] <jdub> heh
[08:13] <jdub> maswan: have you looked at liboil? is it appropriate/interesting for HPC stuff?
[08:14] <fabbione> maswan: eheh than you want to talk with me :)
[08:14] <fabbione> maswan: i did propose that BOF
[08:14] <fabbione> so i expect to lead it too
[08:14] <maswan> fabbione: ah, neat.
[08:14] <maswan> fabbione: you going to LCSC in linkping?
[08:15] <fabbione> nope :(
[08:15] <fabbione> but i am going to UBZ :P
[08:15] <maswan> I don't know if I am either, this year. but generally that's the "big" swedish conference for [acaemic]  HPC stuff
[08:15] <fabbione> maswan: i am looking into openmosix at the moment..
[08:15] <fabbione> (well started 20 minutes ago again after 5 years)
[08:15] <maswan> fabbione: you might want to take a look at Slurm too, as a batch execution enviroment
[08:16] <fabbione> maswan: if you have time just send me a mail with what you think it's worth looking
[08:16] <\sh> argl...
[08:16] <\sh> ssh+screen+gnome-terminal == nono
[08:16] <\sh> +irssi I forgot
[08:17] <fabbione> \sh: screen is either broken on UTF8
[08:17] <maswan> fabbione: I think I will write up a overview of our software enviroment and use cases for you guys.
[08:17] <fabbione> it's the same with BitchX
[08:17] <jdub> \sh: hrm? i regularly use that combination, only suffer breakage when i change the gtk+ theme
[08:17] <eruin> what package should a misconfigured /etc/environment after install be assigned to?
[08:17] <fabbione> maswan: that would be totally RAD!
[08:17] <\sh> jdub: I just had blue fillings on my screen..with irssi...
[08:17] <\sh> jdub: hoary that is :(
[08:17] <fabbione> maswan: btw... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/ <-
[08:18] <fabbione> maswan: it's not state of the art yet :)
[08:18] <jdub> \sh: yeah
[08:18] <fabbione> maswan: but we are getting very close ;)
[08:18] <jdub> fabbione: ooh, sparc cds?
[08:18] <jdub> yay!
[08:18] <\sh> fabbione: hmmm.upstream knows about it?
[08:18] <fabbione> jdub: yes.. it should be possible to install ubuntu-desktop
[08:18] <fabbione> jdub: but there are still glitches with the installe
[08:18] <fabbione> +r
[08:18] <maswan> fabbione: :)
[08:18] <fabbione> i can't type today
[08:19] <fabbione> if you wait tomorrow's image there will be at least 3 errors less
[08:19] <\sh> ok...xterm fix just ready to upload
[08:19] <jdub> fabbione: ok
[08:19] <maswan> fabbione: it is for us too, if you guys understand what we are trying to do and what we want, perhaps you make a better OS for us. :)
[08:19] <\sh> and the first klsch is just finished
[08:19] <fabbione> maswan: that's why i am totally happy to get info from you
[08:19] <fabbione> maswan: i did push already HA into breezy
[08:19] <fabbione> maswan: i expect to expand that and add some kind of HPC
[08:20] <fabbione> specially now that i have 6 i386 machines :)
[08:20] <maswan> :)
[08:20] <fabbione> i just need a gigabit switch
[08:20] <fabbione> :)
[08:22] <mdke> jdub, do you have an ETA on the mailing lists?
[08:23] <maswan> fabbione: expect something next week
[08:23] <jdub> mdke: not a usefully clear one, have to figure out what's happening - will look at it on tuesday
[08:23] <fabbione> maswan: it's enough i get something immediatly after release so that i have a couple of weeks to look around before UBZ
[08:23] <mdke> jdub, you know they are not delivering mail now either right?
[08:23] <jdub> mdke: they so are
[08:24] <mdke> oh
[08:24] <mdke> i haven't had anything all day
[08:24] <fabbione> jdub: no.. lists are down
[08:24] <mdke> and the one I sent to loco-contacts never arrived
[08:24] <jdub> ok, cursory look before didn't provide any useful evidence
[08:24] <jdub> oh
[08:24] <jdub> i know why
[08:25] <jdub> ok, lists are running
[08:25] <fabbione> jdub: did you power it off again?
[08:25] <jdub> but archives are a different matter
[08:25] <mdke> jdub, ok thanks
[08:25] <jdub> fabbione: mailman restart always fails on that machine, have to stop/start
[08:25] <mdke> bah
[08:25] <fabbione> jdub: tsk
[08:25] <mdke> have you got it on a 386?
[08:25] <jdub> fabbione: yeah, my bad ;-)
[08:26] <fabbione> jdub: you need to move to a more sane country man :)
[08:26] <fabbione> walking upsidedown has bad effects
[08:26] <jdub> heh
[08:26] <jdub> fabbione: but this machine is upside down too!
[08:26] <fabbione> is that why it runs exim and not postfix?
[08:27] <jdub> it runs exim because it was upgraded from debian somethingorother
[08:27] <desrt> will the breezy installer resize fat/ntfs?
[08:27] <mdke> yep
[08:27] <desrt> awesome.
[08:27] <fabbione> desrt: it already does
[08:27] <mdke> hoary did
[08:27] <desrt> will it resize even if the FS is fragmented?
[08:27] <fabbione> desrt: hmm i think so..
[08:27] <desrt> good.
[08:28] <mdke> desrt, ntfs is quite experimental still afaik
[08:28] <fabbione> desrt: i didn't try that in a loooooooong time
[08:28] <mdke> so backup
[08:28] <jdub> bah, some podcast client tries to get a bunch of stupid files when it hits the server
[08:28] <jdub> desrt: you going to do an event report for the fridge?
[08:28] <fabbione> jdub: fridge.u.c?
[08:28] <tseng> jdub: monopod
[08:29] <jdub> fabbione: yes
[08:29] <tseng> that reminds me, i should upload it
[08:29] <jdub> tseng: oh, really? it does that?
[08:29] <jdub> tseng: i'm so going to flame edd
[08:29] <tseng> jdub: oh, i dunno
[08:29] <tseng> jdub: i was telling you to use it in place of whatever bollox you have
[08:29] <jdub> oh
[08:29] <jdub> no
[08:29] <jdub> i'm looking at the logs
[08:30] <tseng> edd is my hero
[08:30] <jdub> files/jeff-waugh-on-la-update.ssa not found.
[08:30] <jdub> files/jeff-waugh-on-la-update.smi not found.
[08:30] <jdub> files/jeff-waugh-on-la-update.srt not found.
[08:30] <jdub> files/jeff-waugh-on-la-update.sub not found.
[08:30] <jdub> files/jeff-waugh-on-la-update.txt not found.
[08:30] <jdub> files/jeff-waugh-on-la-update.asc not found.
[08:30] <tseng> .asc, boggle
[08:30] <jdub> really weird
[08:31] <jdub> google suggests they're captioning formats
[08:31] <tseng> jdub: i set up my first mergedfb today
[08:31] <jdub> AHA
[08:31] <jdub> i think i know the culprit
[08:31] <tseng> jdub: and like, i am finding stuff from you and snorp about that sucking in gnome from like 2002-2003
[08:31] <jdub> hahahahaha
[08:31] <jdub> http://kaffeine.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=faq#question7
[08:31] <tseng> jdub: the background capplet still sucks
[08:31] <jdub> heh
[08:32] <tseng> i like quesiton 1
[08:32] <jdub> wow
[08:32] <jdub> funny
[08:33] <tseng> sounds like something from gentoo forums
[08:34] <tseng> jdub: puc still hates me
[08:34] <slomo> jdub: want to add me to pub? :)
[08:34] <tseng> puc dude
[08:34] <jdub> slomo: hrm?
[08:35] <jdub> tseng: grr, i have to get elmo to delete the cache file :|
[08:35] <tseng> jdub: GAR GAR
[08:35] <slomo> jdub: haha... puc even :)
[08:35] <jdub> slomo: you're a member? got a feed?
[08:35] <slomo> jdub: sure... http://slomosnail.de/feed/
[08:37] <jdub> slomo: *blink* i don't know why i've never associated your nick with your name before.
[08:37] <jdub> sorry :-)
[08:37] <slomo> jdub: no problem :)
[08:38] <Nafallo> hehe
[08:38] <jdub> oh, that's right, i have to get rob collins to help with a baz borkage
[08:40] <spayne> elmo: ping
[08:44] <\sh> hmmm
[08:44] <\sh> something I'm doing wrong
[08:45] <\sh> after make install, I'll do a : chmod g+rs /usr/bin/xterm but the app doesn't have the permission in the package...grmpf...
[08:46] <slomo> \sh: maybe dh_fixperms is resetting the permissions
[08:46] <\sh> oh yes....grmpf
[08:47] <\sh> did miss the call
[08:47] <desrt> jamesh; ping
[09:03] <\sh> Kamion: xterm utmp bugfix uploaded
[09:13] <\sh> elmo: please morgue eric3 (universe) asap ... eric is now the correct package for this python ide
[09:21] <gouchi> Hi
[09:21] <gouchi> don't know if it has been discused
[09:21] <gouchi> but why you don't disable stars when you ask password in DI ?
[09:22] <gouchi> users are very disturbed because they think it didn't work
[09:22] <gouchi> why you disable star when typing the password in DI sorry :)
[09:23] <desrt> one has to wonder what "DI" stands for?
[09:24] <jdub> debian installer
[09:24] <gouchi> sorry ;-)
[09:24] <desrt> uhm... doesn't breezy now display *s for the initial account password?
[09:24] <gouchi> don't test yet
[09:24] <desrt> i'm reasonably sure that it does
[09:25] <gouchi> I hope too ;-)
[09:25] <gouchi> because users are very disturbed by that
[09:26] <desrt> i agree
[09:26] <desrt> whenever i tell new users how to change their password with 'passwd' i almost always get someone asking "why isn't it working?"
[09:26] <ivoks> :)
[09:26] <gouchi> :)
[09:27] <ivoks> or "keyboard is broken"
[09:28] <gouchi> any news about http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15031 ?
[09:30] <\sh> hmmm..did anybody see my xterm upload on -changes?
[09:30] <ivoks> no
[09:30] <slomo> \sh: -changes is laggy atm... my last upload was already build and in the archives one hour before it was on changes ;)
[09:34] <sebest> how does ubuntu support software wlan switch?
[09:34] <ivoks> sebest: on what model? :/
[09:34] <ivoks> there are hardware switches and software switches
[09:34] <sebest> fujitsu siemens amilo M 7400
[09:34] <sebest> i use the module fsam7400
[09:35] <sebest> i must echo 1 > /proc/driver/wireless/radio
[09:35] <ivoks> and that works?
[09:35] <sebest> i wrote a simple script to handle this
[09:35] <sebest> ivoks: yes
[09:35] <ivoks> sebest: you have switch button on keyboard?
[09:36] <sebest> yes
[09:36] <sebest> but i can't bind it to my script with gnome
[09:36] <ivoks> hm...
[09:37] <Seveas> sebest, can you bind the key to another command?
[09:37] <sebest> Seveas: i don't know how to do this from gnome
[09:37] <Seveas> deep inside gconf-editor you can set manual keybindings to whatever you want
[09:37] <sebest> Seveas really??
[09:37] <Seveas> sebest, system -> prefs -> keyboard shortcuts
[09:38] <sebest> ivoks: how does ubuntu handle the other models using software switch?
[09:38] <Seveas> if the key works there for a random action, you can (ab)use gconf-editor to make it launch your script
[09:38] <ivoks> that gnome keys bind is broken anyway
[09:38] <ivoks> sebest: join #ubuntu-laptop
[09:39] <sebest> Seveas: thx i'll try this
[09:40] <ivoks> sebest: that key. shourtcats doesn't work for my windows key :)
[09:40] <ivoks> grgrgrg.... s/sebest/Seveas :)
[09:40] <Seveas> lol
[09:40] <Seveas> then your win key may be mapped to meta oslt
[09:41] <ivoks> meta4+x works
[09:41] <ivoks> but meta4+f doesn't
[09:41] <Seveas> ah, that
[09:41] <Seveas> happens to me if I use alt/ctrl too
[09:41] <Seveas> probably some bad paths
[09:41] <ivoks> heh
[09:41] <Seveas> Have been planning to look at it more closely since may or so...
[09:46] <sebest> Seveas do  you know where is it in gconf?
[09:47] <Seveas> sec
[09:47] <jmg> hey all
[09:47] <Seveas>  /apps/metacity/*
[09:47] <ivoks> hi jdub
[09:49] <jmg> is there a sane reason why Xv is not enabled by default?
[09:49] <mjg59> jmg: Given that Xv is enabled by default here, I doubt it
[09:49] <ivoks> here too
[09:49] <mjg59> jmg: But if you give more details, it may be possible to work out why
[09:50] <jmg> mjg59: so xserver-xorg set option VideoOverlay on in your xorg.conf?
[09:50] <jmg> because its not on on my last 2 breezy installs.. radeon 9200 and i915
[09:51] <mjg59> jmg: No, because it's not a valid configuration option in the i810 driver
[09:51] <mjg59> Or, indeed, in the radeon driver
[09:51] <jmg> mjg59: huh?
[09:51] <mjg59> VideoOverlay is a fglrx-specific option
[09:52] <jmg> I810(0): video overlay key set to 0x83e
[09:52] <jmg> mjg59: electricsheep reported "No xv aperture found" until i set that option
[09:52] <mjg59> jmg: Yes. I have that in my logs.
[09:53] <mjg59> jmg: The string "VideoOverlay" does not appear in the i810 driver
[09:54] <mjg59> Of the Free drivers, it seems to be MGA, S3 and tdfx-specific
[09:54] <jdub> $ sudo hdparm -T /dev/hda
[09:54] <jdub> /dev/hda: Timing cached reads:   2480 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1239.57 MB/sec
[09:54] <jdub> ^ laptop
[09:54] <jdub> root@katia:~ # hdparm -T /dev/sda
[09:54] <jdub> /dev/sda: Timing cached reads:   484 MB in  2.01 seconds = 240.95 MB/sec
[09:54] <jdub> ^ server
[09:55] <mjg59> jdub: That's fairly meaningless
[09:55] <jdub> i should bonnie them
[09:55] <jmg> mjg59: how unusual
[09:56] <mjg59> jmg: No, that's fairly normal
[09:56] <mjg59> Anyway
[09:56] <ivoks> enjoy
[09:58] <jmg> mjg59: let me try something, brb
[09:58] <jmg> mjg59: i guess it fixed itself
[09:59] <jmg> mjg59: electricsheep needs to be bumped anyway
[09:59] <jmg> 2.6.2 cant connect to server
[10:02] <jmg> debmake - helper package for debian/rules (deprecated).... deprecated by what?
[10:03] <\sh> debhelber ?
[10:03] <\sh> debhelper even
[10:05] <\sh> okokok...please dear callcenter agent, please call me if it's really, _really_ important, but please not because you want to have a nagra smartcard provisioned
[10:05] <jmg> \sh: isnt there a command to initially debianise a source tree?
[10:06] <\sh> dh_make
[10:06] <jmg> ahh, its not in debhelper, thanks
[10:07] <\sh> jmg: for starting question please join #ubuntu-motu :)
[10:10] <jmg> \sh: sssh :p
[10:12] <jmg> \sh: actually i was interested in seeing if the new dh_make automatically debianised python modules with setup.py
[10:13] <jmg> doesnt appear to, still requires Makefile
[10:14] <\sh> jmg: well...dh_make is templating nothing else...providing you with a default template :(
[10:14] <jmg> \sh: some packages all you need is to run dh_make and edit control and changelog
[10:15] <\sh> I think I'd try only once dh_make...and that was my ubuntu start
[10:16] <jmg> ok
[10:17] <thesaltydog> dh_make is quite unuseful... if you know what debian/ dir is..
[10:25] <harrytuttle> jmg: if you use dh_make with cdbs there is a template for setup.py: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2501656
[10:26] <jmg> thesaltydog: it makes it easier
[10:26] <thesaltydog> jmg, yes.. sometimes
[10:28] <jmg> harrytuttle: thanks
[10:28] <jmg> thesaltydog: i agree if you dont know how to write rules and control its not going to really help :)
[10:29] <jmg> ajmitch: ill just keep filing bugs with patches until release
[10:30] <jmg> ajmitch: assuming my last upload was up to scratch or is there an Even Better Way(tm)
[10:30] <thesaltydog> jmg it provides you with a full template of stuff. Sometimes it is easier to copy your debian dir from a similar package you have just packaged.
[10:32] <jmg> thesaltydog: i agree
[10:32] <ajmitch> jmg: alright
[10:32] <jmg> thesaltydog: or use cdbs... thanks to harrytuttle for pointing that out
[10:33] <jmg> ajmitch: as i find bugs and have time to fix
[10:34] <jmg> ajmitch: using breezy on all my workstations now until release :)
[10:34] <ajmitch> great :)
[10:34] <ajmitch> jmg: I'll certainly make suggestions on your patches before we upload :)
[10:34] <jmg> ajmitch: totally sold on it when it picked up all (yes all) my hardware
[10:34] <jmg> on my new lappy
[10:35] <ajmitch> so far you've just got a patch for 2742 in?
[10:35] <jmg> ajmitch: figure i may as well make release as best as i can by making sure it also do everything i need for work
[10:35] <ajmitch> are #331 & 332 fixed?
[10:35] <jmg> do/does
[10:35] <jmg> i dont use kdevelop anymore :) but i will check and see if they can be closed
[10:35] <ajmitch> ok
[10:35] <jdub> jmg: got my servers running breezy since before preview ;-) very helpful
[10:36] <ajmitch> jmg: latest kvpnc patch is looking better, dpatch might be nice though
[10:36] <jdub> difficult to catch serverish bugs in fast six month cycles if no one's brave/stupid enough to push them
[10:37] <jdub> me too ;-)
[10:37] <jmg> jdub: i have some xen domains on servers running breezy
[10:37] <jdub> everyone at udu was like, "um, huh?"
[10:37] <jdub> jmg: i should so install xen
[10:37] <ajmitch> since I was silly enough to do the dist-upgrade at a friend's place in sydney
[10:37] <jmg> jdub: dont worry i will work on it breezy+1
[10:38] <ajmitch> I'll be back in a couple of hours & look at that patch again
[10:38] <desrt> what ever happened to the dingo?
[10:38] <jmg> jdub: i think i will eventually get debian maintainership of xen since adam is overloaded
[10:38] <jdub> cool
[10:38] <jmg> ajmitch: point me to something on dpatch
[10:38] <ajmitch> http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
[10:39] <jmg> jdub: xen on debian is a clusterfrell right now because 2.6.11 is locked out and xen-2.0.7 depends on kernel 2.6.11
[10:39] <jdub> fun :|
[10:39] <jmg> tell me about it
[10:39] <jmg> so my asterisk box wound up running on naked hardware
[10:40] <jdub> haha
[10:40] <jdub> in xen land
[10:40] <jdub> that is terrible!
[10:40] <jmg> which is dissapointing
[10:41] <jmg> jdub: just means i will have to convert once we can unfrell the situation... looks to be release of xen 2.0.8 and checkin of kernel-source-2.6.12
[10:42] <jmg> will fix the issue
[10:43] <jmg> in the mean time im flying on very unofficial kernel-source-2.6.11 i cooked up myself
[10:43] <jmg> but i havent made a kernel-patch so nothing can reverse so stuff like module-assistant wont work (which i need for misdn to do my * box the debian way)
[10:44] <jmg> actually i lie... i made a kernel-patch... but nothing applies to it :)
[10:44] <jmg> is mirror.clarkson.edu open for anyone?
[10:48] <jmg> hmm may not be so easy
[10:50] <jmg> how to configure so coral:http://www.google.com/linux becomes http://www.google.com.nyud.net:8090/linux
[10:53] <Kamion> gouchi: yes, I made cdebconf show stars in password prompts ages ago
[10:53] <harrytuttle> does coral works with something different than http?
[10:54] <gouchi> Kamion : cool
[10:54] <gouchi> Kamion : on Breezy so ?
[10:54] <Kamion> yes, cdebconf 0.78, end of May
[10:55] <gouchi> ok ;-)
[10:56] <jmg> harrytuttle: no it is http... the rule is just append .nyud.net:8090 to your request
[10:56] <jmg> harrytuttle: but i dont know if konq web shortcuts can do that
[10:57] <harrytuttle> coral://www.google.com/linux looks better
[10:58] <jmg> so it does
[10:58] <jmg> but not even that is doable
[10:58] <jmg> coral:www.google.com linux is doable
[11:00] <gouchi> http://www.google.com/mozilla/google.xul :)
[11:00] <desrt> this is an interesting creation
[11:01] <gouchi> ;-)
[11:01] <desrt> i worry if something like this poses a security risk
[11:17] <\sh> g'night gentlemen
[11:17] <mdke> night \sh
[11:42] <jmg> ajmitch: yes they are fixed :)
[11:44] <jmg> ajmitch: i want proper xen on my laptop so i will be probably fulfilling the xen goal in breezy+1
[11:46] <jdong> hey, any devs here use/(are familiar with) ReiserFS?
[11:46] <jdong> I'm concerned about whether or not journal replay happens properly with Ubuntu (Hoary/Breezy)
[11:47] <jdong> Ubuntu first mounts ro (skipping journal reply), then remounts rw, but nowhere can I find evidence of journal reply while remounting...
[11:47] <jmg> is anyone here able to reach mirror.clarkson.edu?
[11:48] <jdong> jmg: timing out
[11:50] <jmg> where is clarkson?
[11:53] <jdong> jmg: USA? ;)
[11:54] <jdong> jmg: why not ASSume<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:54] <jmg> because the google cache says it is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:55] <jmg> jdong: wonder if it is offline because of hurricane ;)
[11:55] <jdong> 8 Clarkson Ave., Potsdam, NY 13699
[11:56] <jdong> doesn't sound too hurricane prone
[11:56] <jdong> so, anyone have a word on reiserfs?
[11:56] <jmg> hmm