[09:30] <mac_v> !hi | SiDi
[09:30] <ubot4> SiDi: Hi! Welcome to #ayatana!
[09:31] <SiDi> hi ubot4
[09:31] <SiDi> huhuhuh :D
[09:32] <mac_v> SiDi: hehe... i told the ops SiDi missed ubottu , so they gave us a spare bot ;p
[09:32] <SiDi> yay thats great
[17:01] <davidsiegel> Hey, if anyone is interested in participating in a user testing initiative for Ubuntu, please check this out: http://davidsiegel.org/distributed-user-testing-archives/
[17:01] <davidsiegel> DanRabbit lamalex MDC2 mrooney|w mccann ^
[17:04] <DanRabbit> davidsiegel: double click should extract
[17:04] <davidsiegel> DanRabbit: shhh
[17:04] <davidsiegel> DanRabbit: :)
[17:04] <DanRabbit> I'm too outspoken :D
[17:04] <davidsiegel> we're just looking for data
[17:04] <DanRabbit> I'll test when I get home :)
[17:04] <davidsiegel> awesome man
[17:05] <DanRabbit> I'm moving this weekend though, so we'll see what happens.
[17:05] <davidsiegel> no problemo
[17:05]  * DanRabbit whispers btw, yesterday was my birthday
[17:05] <davidsiegel> DanRabbit: happy birthday!
[17:05] <DanRabbit> why thankyou
[17:06] <DanRabbit> BUt, I have to get the new keys :D
[17:06] <DanRabbit> see ya later
[18:41] <mac_v> djsiegel1: ping?
[18:41] <djsiegel1> hey mac_v
[18:42] <mac_v> hi... check out my latest screenshot of kwwii's ppa , bug 405426
[18:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 405426 in human-gtk-theme "Remove application icons from title bars" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/405426
[18:42] <mac_v> djsiegel1: ^
[18:46]  * djsiegel1 checks
[18:47] <djsiegel1> mac_v: ok
[18:48] <mac_v> djsiegel1: you notice the problem i was mentioning?
[18:48] <djsiegel1> mac_v: yes
[18:48] <djsiegel1> I never claimed that removing the icons makes the windows easier to identify, or just as easy to identify
[18:48] <djsiegel1> I agree that it makes them less easy to identify
[18:48] <djsiegel1> it just fixes an aesthetic problem with the human theme
[18:49] <djsiegel1> If your windows are stacked to the right, you would still have that same problem today
[18:49] <mac_v> ;p
[18:49] <mac_v> djsiegel1: how about using Dust Sand for the default?
[18:50] <mac_v> kwwii would kill me ;p
[18:50] <djsiegel1> not going to happen
[18:50] <mac_v> hehe... maybe kwwii would come up with what he is working on ,something awesome he says
[18:51] <mac_v> for karmic+1
[18:55] <mac_v> BTW windows dont stack to the right , the default is they stack from left to right
[19:59] <djsiegel1> DanRabbit: hey
[20:06]  * gus__ is having a hard time trying to modify notify-osd so it displays the notifications on the bottom left
[20:39] <mrooney|w> djsiegel1: yeah, I should do that test on my girlfriend who is a mac user
[20:39] <mrooney|w> I tried screenjelly but it doesn't...seem to do anything?
[20:39] <djsiegel1> mrooney|w: please do
[20:39] <djsiegel1> mrooney|w: you need java
[20:39] <mrooney|w> yeah I installed that and the message saying that went away, but clicking the red button still does nothing
[20:40] <mrooney|w> I can still use gtkrecordmydesktop, that works nicely
[20:40]  * SiDi waves at mrooney|w
[20:40] <mrooney|w> hi!
[20:41] <SiDi> you forgot to mention launchpad also provides ninjas in your last blog post ;P
[20:50] <mrooney|w> ninjas!
[20:50] <SiDi> btw, did you code a little on wxbanker lately ?
[20:51] <mrooney|w> indeed I have been working on it the past few weeks, why?
[20:51] <SiDi> Cause the PPA didnt have any new deb for a while
[20:51] <SiDi> and thus i didnt think about checking my bank account for a while
[20:52] <mrooney|w> hahaha
[20:52] <mrooney|w> I never thought about people using it like that
[20:52] <mrooney|w> oh by the way I have #wxbanker now :)
[20:53] <SiDi> i actually check the amount on the bank account, but i dont go into details with the bank's website, cause its ugly to use :P
[21:48] <djsiegel1> beuno: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ronnietucker/3776139572/in/pool-556923@N24/?addedcomment=1#comment72157621906749846
[21:48] <djsiegel1> kwwii: ^
[21:49] <djsiegel1> clear winner
[21:49] <beuno> djsiegel1, hi
[21:49] <beuno> looking
[21:50] <beuno> using gimp
[21:50] <beuno> awesome
[23:08] <DanRabbit> djsiegel1: pong
[23:21] <djsiegel1> hey DanRabbit
[23:21] <DanRabbit> what's up?
[23:25]  * SiDi found out why the font was looking so damn little in notify-osd !
[23:25] <SiDi> It was defaulting to 72 DPI (instead of 95) because i dont have the DPI gconf key set :P
[23:26] <djsiegel1> SiDi: is that a general bug for most people?
[23:27] <yoasif> djsiegel1, it might be, how do i check?
[23:27] <yoasif> i have tiny text in my notfications
[23:27] <djsiegel1> yoasif: talk to SiDi
[23:27] <djsiegel1> he can tell you about the DPI gconf setting
[23:27] <djsiegel1> if it's defaulting to something small because the key is not set, it's a bug
[23:27] <yoasif> SiDi dpi gconf for notify? :)
[23:29] <mrooney|w> oh yeah I noticed that too, notify-osd text is very small in Karmic haha
[23:30] <SiDi> djsiegel1: anyone not on GNOME has a 72 DPI
[23:30] <SiDi> we default to 96 in xubuntu, so i think 72 may be a bit tiny for some screens
[23:30] <djsiegel1> anyone not on GNOME has 72 DPI in notify-osd?
[23:30] <SiDi> yeh, there is a gconf key for your DPI value, yoasif
[23:30] <djsiegel1> what about on GNOME?
[23:31] <djsiegel1> SiDi: is it set by default?
[23:31] <SiDi> djsiegel1: then it'll use the DPI value if it exists
[23:31] <yoasif> SiDi, how can i check to see if it is set?
[23:31] <djsiegel1> I noticed that the text is small too
[23:31] <SiDi> otherwise it fallbacks to 72
[23:31] <djsiegel1> SiDi: I am wondering if it's falling back on default install
[23:31] <SiDi> well, Mirco used to use a bigger font size, and he switch to a more little one, so there's that too


[01:06] <gnomefreak> karma is messed up again if not already known i went from over 1.3 million to 10489 over night.
[01:06] <gnomefreak> im not the only one
[01:10] <gnomefreak> i had right at 900,000-1 million before edgys release how is this right?
[01:11] <mpt> gnomefreak, see the channel topic
[01:12] <LaserJock> gosh, I really like the new numbers, I guess it's just me :/
[01:12] <tonyyarusso> mpt: We just read that.  It still doesn't seem right according to what that claims was the problem.
[01:12] <LaserJock> right
[01:13] <LarstiQ> mpt: interesting, it has greatly changed +topcontributors for a couple of projects
[01:13] <mpt> tonyyarusso, can you give an example?
[01:14] <tonyyarusso> mpt: Well, I don't have the exact numbers, but gnomefreak, PriceChild, and I all believe we had substantially more points in October than we do now, regardless of what happened in between.  Additionally, gnomefreak and I can both confirm that our karmas were holding steady in recent weeks, not increasing dramatically as would have been the case.
[01:15] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you still looked at your karma?
[01:15] <mpt> tonyyarusso, remember that karma decays over time
[01:16] <LaserJock> mpt: yeah, it's definately done more than just compensate for Oct-Jan
[01:16] <mpt> So if your karma was holding steady recently, that might have been a combination of both the Oct~Jan ballooning, and the decay of karma you earned before October.
[01:16] <tonyyarusso> mpt: Right.  Probably the most significant thing is the appearance of being steady recently.  Was it locked after the problem was discovered or anything like that?
[01:16] <LaserJock> you sure they didn't Log() it or something
[01:16] <tonyyarusso> mpt: ah, that would make some sense
[01:16] <mpt> Cancelling each other out.
[01:17] <LarstiQ> mpt: afaik karma has been non-increasing for everyone the past week or so
[01:17] <LaserJock> ok, but I went from almost 2 million to 4208 overnight
[01:17] <tonyyarusso> mpt: Still, it seems like a pretty drastic adjustment.  I went from something on the order of a bit over 1,250,000 to 2476, so it raises some flags.
[01:17] <LaserJock> that seems a bit more than some compensation
[01:17] <mpt> The people who know most about karma are salgado and stub
[01:18] <mpt> so you may want to talk about it with one of them, when they're around
[01:18] <tonyyarusso> All right.  Just hoping we haven't introduced a new bug or something.
[01:43] <sabdfl> mpt: hmm... i thought the 1-0-ui branch rolled out automatically at 23:00 UTC?
[01:43] <sabdfl> was hoping to see all the new fixes before crashing :-)
[01:43] <sabdfl> LaserJock: i think they did log it
[01:44] <LaserJock> I was hoping for a Log, I think it's a good way to get new people excited without making things unreadable
[01:45] <LaserJock> unless of course your sabdfl and you should have infinite karma ;-)
[01:45] <sabdfl> in my life, there's good karma, and there's not-so-good karma :-)
[01:45] <sabdfl> dat's livin'
[01:45] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:45] <LaserJock> we haven't introduced negative karma
[01:45] <LaserJock> that would be fun ;-)
[01:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82389 in soyuz "Store the person who signed the changes file in an upload" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82389
[01:46] <sabdfl> night kiko-zzz
[01:50] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you mean upload a package with bugs?
[01:51] <ajmitch> or filing a duplicate?
[01:58] <mpt> sabdfl, there was one pagetest failure that I've now fixed, now I'm merging conflicts with salgado's work
[02:00] <LaserJock> ajmitch: for what?
[02:01] <ajmitch> LaserJock: negative karma :)
[02:02] <LaserJock> heh
[02:02] <LaserJock> I thought we could give doko -5 every time he backlogs the buildd with OO.o ;-)
[02:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82391 in rosetta "Denemo name in menu Spanish" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82391
[03:22] <jamesh> mpt: ping?
[03:49] <effie_jayx> Hello... is something wrong with karma??? or was there something wrong with Karma?
[03:49] <effie_jayx> :D
[03:52] <ajmitch> see topic
[03:53] <effie_jayx> cool
[03:54] <effie_jayx> the second then :D
[03:54] <effie_jayx> sorr for not reading the topic
[03:59] <mpt> hello jamesh
[04:01] <jamesh> mpt: yesterday Hobsee filed a bug about confusion relating to the way we display dates/times (bug 82230)
[04:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 82230 in pytz "Time zone abbreviations can cause confusion" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82230
[04:02] <jamesh> it turns out that she assumed that the "EST" at the ends of the dates meant we were using US time rather than Australian EST (which she had selected)
[04:02] <jamesh> mpt: what do you think of using numeric time zone names instead, or maybe even no time zone names?
[04:03] <gouki> Hi. I had a major lost of karma points. ~70000 to 5000. Can anyone provide any information of why this happened?
[04:03] <jamesh> gouki: see topic
[04:04] <gouki> jamesh: Sorry
[04:04] <gouki> Thank you
[04:04] <jamesh> gouki: no problem :)
[04:04] <gouki> jamesh: So NOW the karma is correct
[04:05] <mpt> jamesh, definitely, if it is at all common for more than one timezone to have the same abbreviation
[04:06] <jamesh> mpt: they definitely aren't unique identifiers
[04:06] <jamesh> gouki: yep.  I don't have 2 million karma either now :)
[04:06] <gouki> jamesh: Hehehe!
[04:06] <jml> so how much karma do I need to level up?
[04:07] <jamesh> jml: now or before?
[04:07] <jml> now, I guess.
[04:07] <jamesh> jml: 2 million
[04:07] <jml> hahaha
[04:07] <gouki> 'Level up'?
[04:08] <jml> gouki: it's an RPG term.
[04:09] <mpt> ooh, that's an idea
[04:09] <jml> gouki: for way too much information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_up
[04:09] <mpt> Get 10000 karma, and you get to use Launchpad Pro
[04:10] <gouki> jml: Thank you. I was not aware of this.
[04:10] <gouki> Can I find out more information regarding Launchpad Pro?
[04:11] <ajmitch> mpt: excellent, I've only got a couple of thousand to go!
[04:13] <mpt> Vaporware always is
[04:14] <mpt> argh, kiko, where's your patch?
[04:15] <ajmitch> mpt: the beta isn't vapour though :)
[04:17] <mpt> Nor is it shiny, yet
[04:58] <effie_jayx> lol @ launchpad pro... is that for reall?
[04:58] <jamesh> effie_jayx: I can neither confirm or deny the existence of Launchpad Pro
[04:59] <effie_jayx> ohhh god...
[04:59] <effie_jayx> :S
[04:59] <jamesh> actually, I can deny the existence :)
[05:00] <ajmitch> the secret is to deny everything
[05:01] <spiv> ajmitch: we deny that that is the secret
[05:01] <LaserJock> heh
[05:02] <effie_jayx> well
[05:02] <effie_jayx> sounds very corporate... to ad a pro...
[05:02] <effie_jayx> :S
[05:03] <effie_jayx> what next.. launchpad home edition
[05:03] <effie_jayx> :D
[05:03] <LaserJock> I was thinking Launchpad XP
[05:03] <radix> and how many new spells do you get when you level up
[05:03] <effie_jayx> LOL
[05:03] <effie_jayx> radix,  lol
[05:03] <jml> radix: depends on your class
[05:04] <LaserJock> that's what I need, more "bug-b-gone" powers
[05:05] <jml> radix: a cross-class translator / hacker might get three more spells and an extra attack per round
[05:05] <radix> dang, I am probably only a bug wrangler, according to my karma page.
[05:05] <radix> with like one level in spec writing
[05:07] <effie_jayx> radix,  it is rumoured that launchpad pro is used by google (just to keep the ball rolling)
[05:34] <LaserJock> effie_jayx: I thought that was Goopad? ;-)
[05:34] <effie_jayx> I give up...
[05:34] <effie_jayx> :S
[05:35] <jamesh> effie_jayx: radix probably isn't the one to spread rumours to
[05:36] <jamesh> effie_jayx: the closest thing I've heard to that rumour is Google having a customised version of Ubuntu (which they do -- they've got customised versions of every distro they use internally)
[05:37] <effie_jayx> jamesh, :D
[09:14] <mruiz> hello
[09:17] <mruiz> Where can I report a LP bug?
[09:19] <tonyyarusso> Under products > lp in malone I'd imagine.
[09:20] <mruiz> :-)
[09:22] <mruiz> thanks tonyyarusso
[09:22] <tonyyarusso> yw
[09:52] <carlos> morning
[10:14] <davmor2> A query how do I add a spec for a meta-package for westnoth-all for gnome-app-install please?
[10:17] <seb128> don't add specs for small details like that
[10:17] <seb128> having a zillion of specs for every wishlist is not the right way to do ;)
[10:17] <seb128> open a wishlist on gnome-app-install
[10:18] <davmor2> seb128: how please
[10:18] <seb128> davmor2: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+filebug
[10:19] <davmor2> seb128: A wealth of knowledge, many thanks
[10:19] <seb128> np
[10:30] <mpt> Alas, another confusion between the bug tracker and the spec tracker
[10:30] <mpt> :-)
[10:32] <davmor2> mpt: Sorry?
[10:35] <sabdfl> stub around?
[10:38] <sabdfl> mpt: iirc, h2 is what we use for in-page subheadings, right?
[10:40] <sabdfl> if so, could we give it a bit of space-above? it always seems those headings are jammed agains the text above them
[10:41] <stu1> sabdfl: yes
[10:46] <mpt> sabdfl, 0.5em added.
[10:46] <sabdfl> thanks mpt - looking forward to 23:00 :-)
[10:47] <mpt> As in, 12 hours from now?
[10:48] <sabdfl> ddaa: what's the difference between syncing and mirroring?
[10:48] <sabdfl> trying to understand productseries.date_published_sync
[10:48] <ddaa> depends on the context
[10:48] <sabdfl> mpt: yes
[10:48] <ddaa> ha
[10:49] <mpt> oh, the rollout to beta
[10:49] <ddaa> sabdfl: in this context, synced means "importd updated the internal import branch", and mirrored mean "the internal branch was published on the supermirror"
[10:49] <Fujitsu> What's being rolled out to beta? Some major change?
[10:50] <mpt> Fujitsu, no, just some shiny new hotness
[10:50] <Fujitsu> Sounds good.
[10:51] <ddaa> the best way to described date_published_sync, I think, is "the time the currently published branch was synced, at the time the internal branch was last synced"
[10:51] <ddaa> best as in "shortest accurate"
[11:01] <sabdfl> ddaa: so this time effectively gives you the "age" of the published branch?
[11:02] <ddaa> if importd_branch.last_mirrored < datelastsynced, yes
[11:02] <ddaa> but if import_branch.last_mirrored > datelastsynced, then the age of the published branch is given by datelastsynced
[11:03] <ddaa> s/importd_branch/import_branch/
[11:03] <sabdfl> do we actually track the internal branch and the published branch as separate Branch objects?
[11:03] <stu1> so when the branch is synced, the last_mirrored timestamp is copied to the date_published_synced timestamp (?)
[11:03] <sabdfl> or is the internal branch just data on disk?
[11:05] <sabdfl> ddaa: please walk me through this
[11:05] <ddaa> stu1: no, when the branch is synced, the datelastsynced timestamp is copied to date_published_sync, IF datelastsynced gives us the age of the published branch
[11:05] <sabdfl> say we run a cscvs import run on an external SVN branch at 08h00
[11:05] <sabdfl> what data gets updated?
[11:06] <ddaa> sabdfl: importd pushes the cscvs-updated branch to escudero
[11:06] <sabdfl> to a special directory, related to the branch id?
[11:06] <ddaa> sabdfl: yes
[11:07] <sabdfl> ok
[11:07] <sabdfl> and what db data is updated so we know when this happened?
[11:07] <ddaa> so at this time we have a published branch on vostok, whose age is given by date_published_sync, and a branch on escudero whose age is given by datelastsynced
[11:09] <ddaa> importd updates datelastsynced, and _maybe_ date_published_sync
[11:09] <ddaa> Then the branch-puller scripts runs (independently of importd)
[11:09] <ddaa> and copies the branch on escudero to the published area on vostok
[11:09] <sabdfl> are those both on ProductSeries?
[11:10] <ddaa> both datelastsynced date_published_sync are on ProductSeries
[11:10] <sabdfl> what are the relevant columns in ProductSeries and Branch?
[11:10] <sabdfl> so ProductSeries.datelastsynced *always* reflects the date the last sync happened
[11:10] <ddaa> After the branch puller update escudero, it sets import_branch.last_mirrored (on Branch) to UTC_NOW.
[11:11] <ddaa> sabdfl: yes!
[11:11] <sabdfl> i thought the branch puller pulled FROM escudero, and updated vostok?
[11:11] <ddaa> s/updates escudero/updates from escudero/
[11:12] <ddaa> s/updates from escudero/updates vostok from escudero/
[11:12] <sabdfl> ok
[11:12] <sabdfl> so
[11:12] <ddaa> 1. importd sets datelastsynced
[11:12] <sabdfl> what is import_branch?
[11:13] <ddaa> sabdfl: its a foreign key ProductSeries->Branch that associates the import to the branch updated by importd
[11:13] <sabdfl> ok. so that's ProductSeries.import_branch.last_mirrored
[11:14] <sabdfl> i.e. it's the branch on Vostok
[11:14] <ddaa> yes
[11:14] <ddaa> that tells us when the published branch was last copied from escudero to vostok
[11:15] <sabdfl> ok, i understand why importd would set ProductSeries.datelastsynced
[11:15] <sabdfl> and why the branch puller would set the Branch.last_mirrored
[11:15] <sabdfl> what is the purpose of the ProductSeries.date_published_sync?
[11:15] <ddaa> so we have two data configurations: 1. the branches on vostok  and escudero are identical 2. the branch on escudero is more recent
[11:16] <ddaa> in case 1, the time of the upstream VCS that's reflected by the published branch is simply ProductSeries.datelastsynced
[11:16] <sabdfl> yes
[11:17] <ddaa> But in case 2... we needed something more than ProductSeries.datelastsynced or Branch.last_mirrored
[11:17] <ddaa> because last_mirrored is irrelevant to the user here, what matters is the "upstream VCS time"
[11:17] <Bhaskar> still problem to download po and mo from launchpad, upto when this will fixed?
[11:18] <stub> Bhaskar: At the moment I think there will be a rollout with the relevant fix in about 18 hours.
[11:19] <Bhaskar> stub:ok, so after 18 hrs we can access
[11:20] <stub> Bhaskar: Yes. I'll be confirming the rollout shortly.
[11:21] <sabdfl> ok, i understandwhat you're trying to do here
[11:21] <sabdfl> essentially, for any given branch on escudero, then on vostok, you need to know what "point in time on CVS" it represents
[11:22] <ddaa> so, Branch.last_mirrored is "supermirror time", and ProductSeries.datelastsynced and ProductSeries.date_published_sync are "upstream vcs time".
[11:22] <ddaa> yes!
[11:23] <sabdfl> if datelastsynced was just "date_internal_branch_synced" and the other was "date_published_branch_synced" would that not be easier?
[11:23] <sabdfl> then you would always know to use "date_published_branch_synced" in the UI?
[11:24] <ddaa> sabdfl: that would certainly be easier to explain, but that would require the branch-puller to update date_published_branch_synced (and give it perms to update the ProductSeries table)
[11:24] <sabdfl> what perms does it currently have?
[11:25] <ddaa> and at time I wrote the code it was easier to _do_ it the way I did it
[11:26] <ddaa> sabdfl: actually, the branch puller only touches the DB through the authserver
[11:27] <sabdfl> RO?
[11:27] <ddaa> write group
[11:27] <sabdfl> so if the branch puller is compromised by nasty "bzr" data, then it can modify the Person table?
[11:28] <ddaa> not really
[11:28] <sabdfl> or is it limited to poking at the auth server?
[11:28] <ddaa> yes, it has no direct db access
[11:28] <sabdfl> is that the deliberate design, that the branch puller should not have any db access?
[11:28] <sabdfl> ok
[11:28] <sabdfl> i'll have to think about this
[11:28] <sabdfl> but we give the importd direct database access?
[11:28] <ddaa> it's a deliberate design decisions because of the security issue you just outlined
[11:28] <ddaa> sabdfl: yes
[11:29] <sabdfl> and the importd is also pointing at potentially hostile data?
[11:29] <ddaa> importd is talking to potentially hostile servers
[11:30] <sabdfl> so we gain no real security by keeping the branch puller away from the db
[11:30] <ddaa> but maybe we should discuss the detailed security implications on a private channel :)
[11:31] <SteveA> BjornT: hi, call?
[11:32] <BjornT> SteveA: sure, i'm ready. i was just restarting X in order to get skype to work.
[12:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82445 in launchpad "Launchpad karma's have been resetted." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82445
[12:25] <Hobbsee> ouch!  didnt realise karma had dropped by *that* much!!!
[12:29] <oojah> *shrugs* Everybody is in the same boat.
[12:33] <mrevell> Hobbsee, oojah: Have you seen the https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaReductionJan07 page?
[12:33] <mrevell> Hobbsee: It's a good thing, honest :)
[12:34] <mrevell> Hobbsee: It means that everybody's karma accurately reflects the work they've done
[12:34] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I'm sorry we ballsed it up for a while
[12:34] <mrevell> hey static
[12:35] <static> hi there mrevell
[12:36] <oojah> mrevell: Yes I've seen it thanks. I'm not really worried to be honest :) I just wanted to point out to Hobbsee that although his karma had dropped lots, so had everybody elses so there shouldn't be much of a net change really.
[12:37] <phanatic> oojah: her ;)
[12:40] <oojah> My apologies
[12:40] <mrevell> aha :)
[12:40] <mrevell> It's a bit of a shock to see your karma drop like that
[12:40] <mrevell> but it's for a good reason :)
[12:40] <mrevell> Now, next time something like that happens, we need to let you know beforehand...
[12:40] <oojah> heh
[12:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82432 in launchpad "Double email notification after I approved a new team member" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82432
[12:59] <Hobbsee> mrevell: yeah, i know :)  was just surprised
[12:59] <Hobbsee> oojah: :)
[01:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82407 in Ubuntu "Can anybody delete my launchpad account? (dup-of: 2773)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82407
[02:16] <Pistahh> hi
[02:16] <Pistahh> how can I find the bugs I created in launchpad?
[02:19] <matsubara> Pistahh: https://launchpad.net/~yourlpname/+reportedbugs
[02:20] <salgado> Pistahh, go to your home page, by clicking on your name on the top right corner and there you'll see a 'Bugs' link on the left-hand menu
[02:31] <kiko> hello crackerjacks
[02:32] <Pistahh> salgado: that link goes to assigned bugs, not to reported bugs.
[02:32] <Pistahh> matsubara: thx, that works
[02:33] <salgado> Pistahh, right, then you have the 'Reported bugs' on the left menu
[02:33] <Pistahh> salgado: ah, really. Thanks.
[03:00] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82465 in launchpad "Track the date in which a person first become a member of a given team" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82465
[03:11] <Pistahh> bye
[04:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82477 in malone "Assinging a bug re-sends it to people who have already received it" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82477
[04:19] <kiko> ass singing?
[04:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82483 in launchpad-cscvs "svn_oo.WorkingTree.update does not ignore externals" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82483
[05:30] <sabdfl> effie_jayx: you're now the owner of the lsm team
[05:34] <effie_jayx> sabdfl, thanks... I hope it wasn't a big mess :S
[05:38] <sabdfl> no, jesus was quite happy for you to have admin, though he recommended someone else (Max?) to be the owner of the team
[05:38] <sabdfl> hope this resolves those issues and lets you guys get on with good interesting work!
[05:44] <effie_jayx> sabdfl,  yep... thanks for the trust...  I was one yesterday :D
[06:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82498 in launchpad-support-tracker "Change search results message to use 'matches' instead of 'about'" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82498
[07:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[07:30] <mpt> Even those who pay attention to their karma!
[07:33] <sabdfl> mpt, thanks for the feedback and comments
[07:33] <sabdfl> mail sent with additional thoughts
[07:33] <sabdfl> the app home pages don'tlookanything like the mockups, which is what's driving me to re-evaluate
[07:34] <sabdfl> is this because we haven't put enough effort into the renderingin HTML?
[07:34] <sabdfl> or because the designs are impractical to render (hard to believe given Usman's background?)
[07:34] <logikon> hey.. i was willing to translate stuff to portuguese, but I after I registered the site didn't give me very clear instruction on how to proceed..
[07:34] <mpt> sabdfl, what differences do you see between the Bugs front page and the OneZeroBugsPage mockup?
[07:35] <sabdfl> spacing, emphasis, imagery, content... where do you want me to start?
[07:35] <sabdfl> lots of little things that make the difference between pretty and ugly
[07:36] <sabdfl> though, much prettier than it was previously
[07:36] <sabdfl> still not slick
[07:36] <sabdfl> call tomorrow is to try and get that back on track
[07:37] <mpt> Well, nothing's slick yet, because there's a lot of CSS work left to do
[07:37] <mpt> but rearranging the contents of the pages won't really change that
[08:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82516 in launchpad "App buttons should be normal size on LP front page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82516
[08:27] <jbailey> SteveA, kiko-afk: Simon's poked me with a question about -commercial.  It's currently being built by dak, so doesn't show up in Launchpad at all.
[08:27] <jbailey> But now folks want to file bugs. =)
[08:31] <matsubara> hello jbailey, bug 58495 might interest you :)
[08:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 58495 in soyuz "dapper-commercial packages are not represented in Launchpad" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58495
[08:32] <jbailey> matsubara: You're magic, dude.  Thanks! =)
[08:50] <seb128> BjornT: around?
[08:51] <seb128> BjornT: do you have any idea on when the "apport bugs generate 9 mails" problem will be fixed?
[09:10] <Ubugtu> New bug: #82533 in launchpad-bazaar "Need to warn that bzr+ssh branches will not be mirrored" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82533
[09:41] <Redmond> hello. can someone tell me how to quit my lounchpad account?
[09:42] <kiko> Redmond, file a +ticket on the launchpad product.
[09:43] <Redmond> is a ticket a bug report?
[09:45] <Redmond> how can i do that?
[09:45] <kiko> Redmond, no, more like a help request.
[09:45] <kiko> here:
[09:46] <kiko> launchpad.net/launchpad/+addticket
[09:46] <kiko> Redmond, but everybody on #launchpad will miss you...
[09:48] <Redmond> kiko, yes i know. but i have to change my name there. in dont want to be found by google by typing mey realname. thats a problem for me :(
[09:48] <kiko> Redmond, I can change your real name on launchpad for you
[09:48] <kiko> is that the only problem?
[09:51] <Redmond> no im a little paraniod about that. i dont want leave any traces to my old account. so i want to register a very new. i hope you excuse that circumstances. but of course i will go on working on launchpad. "the intention counts" :)
[09:52] <kiko> Redmond, there are no traces if you change your name and ask google to reindex the page, seriously.
[10:07] <jag2kn> hi
[10:15] <sabdfl> mpt: is it difficult to make the whole tab clickable?
[10:16] <kiko> sabdfl, should be a matter of making the a { display:block }
[10:20] <mpt> sabdfl, it's a little tricky to do that in a way that both (a) doesn't mess up the tab border and (b) still works for those tabs that don't contain links
[10:20] <mpt> (i.e. those tabs that aren't clickable for the current context)
[10:21] <kiko> mpt, can't you span { display:block }
[10:21] <mpt> It will involve fiddling with spans, probably
[10:21] <mpt> yes
[10:21] <sabdfl> ok
[10:21] <sabdfl> i think there's already a bug filed
[10:22] <mpt> yep
[10:23] <kiko> yeah
[10:55] <sabdfl> mpt: privmsg?
[11:03] <beuno> I can't access launchpad.net
[11:03] <beuno> is it down?
[11:04] <beuno> oops, now I can
[11:04] <beuno> wierd, a couple of ppl complained too, must of been a hicuo
[11:04] <beuno> hicup
[11:34] <sabdfl> ghost in the network
[11:51] <Rinchen> apparently.
[11:51] <Rinchen> sabdfl, responded to Claire's email.  17:00 GMT tomorrow is very good.
[11:52] <sabdfl> hey joey
[11:52] <sabdfl> super
[12:13] <sabdfl> anybody tried running lp on feisty?
[12:13] <sabdfl> we need lp-dependencies
[12:13] <sabdfl> and some code updates, it seems for python 2.5
[12:14] <sabdfl> and postgres 8.2


[00:10] <collinp> This channel and team were active when I first became an Ubutnu member and the year after, but boredandblogging stopped maintaining it and everything died.
[00:41] <kevinf311-lap> ^straight truth


[09:18] <zzarr> hello!
[09:21] <zzarr> I'm going to buy a Dragonboard 410c I wonder if it is possible to rotate the screen?
[09:21] <zzarr> (HDMI output)
[09:22] <zzarr> I wish to have a display in portrait mode
[09:23] <ogra_> zzarr, we have no graphical support on the dragonboard yet (in snappy ... not sure there wil be non-snappy images for it )
[09:24] <zzarr> I though that the xenial image had Mir support for it
[09:24] <ogra_> if you throw something together yourself (i.e. to use X11 on a standard minimal install) there seems to be a freedreno based xserver from linaro though
[09:24] <ogra_> there will be Mir support for it in the snappy image at some point, for sure
[09:24] <ogra_> current focus is on IoT and headless though
[09:27] <zzarr> ogra_, this is a quote from alan_g "So what I did was install the vivid based image from 96boards and then update from the xenial archive. Then Mir 0.20 works."
[09:27] <ogra_> zzarr, well, then 6talk to 96boards, or linaro or so ... thats nothing we produce
[09:27] <alan_g> I also said this was hardly a supported approach
[09:27] <zzarr> alan_g, I missed that
[09:28] <zzarr> but it is a real Ubuntu right?
[09:28] <ogra_> we have a kernel in the archive ... but i doubt any of the tradition installers will ever get support for this device ... there are many biary blobs involved to even boot
[09:29] <ogra_> so it is unlikely yoou will see official traditional images for it
[09:29] <ogra_> (snappy OTOH will get graphical suport at some point, but is still a bit away from that)
[09:30] <alan_g> 96boards produce a vivid based image and instructions for installing that. Updating that from the xenial archives works well enough to prove Mir works, but isn't what anyone will provide support for.
[09:31] <ogra_> yeah
[09:31] <zzarr> well, what matters for me right now is that I can boot a graphical system (X or Mir) that can run a custom application written in Qt Creator (by me)
[09:32] <ogra_> that should even just work with fbdev
[09:32] <ogra_> (though, not at stellar speed i guess :) )
[09:32] <zzarr> and that I can rotate the screen to portrait
[09:32] <zzarr> okey, that's nice :-D
[10:06] <zzarr> order placed :-D
[10:10] <alan_g> alf_: do you want to review before I TA? https://code.launchpad.net/~raof/mir/new-display-api/+merge/286975
[10:22] <zzarr> okey, I guess that you all are (not) itching to know what I'm going to do with the board, I'm going to make a "smart mirror"
[10:24] <zzarr> there are a type of mirror film that reflects from one side, but lets light through in the other direction
[10:24] <zzarr> so I figured that I should make a mirror with a touch screen behind
[11:05] <alf_> alan_g: I'll take a quick look
[16:44] <xperia> Hi everyone! I am trying to Install Ubuntu-Desktop-Mir on a new Bootstraped Rootfs but somehow i am not able to pass the Login Screen after the Boot. Can somebody please tell me what are the Steps to install a full functional Ubuntu Touch Desktop on a bootstraped ubuntu rootfs please?
[16:49] <alan_g> xperia: perhaps you are seeing bug 1549455
[16:49] <ubot5`> bug 1549455 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Unity 8/Mir doesn't load" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549455
[16:55] <xperia> alan_g: its exactly this Bug! have the same Problem like Described.
[16:56] <xperia> alan_g: is this somehow related to unity8 becouse if i try also just to install the newest version of ubuntu-desktop its same.
[16:57] <alan_g> xperia: sorry, I've not been actively following the problem, just thought it sounded similar
[17:01] <ChrisTownsend> xperia: There is some entropy issue that can cause failed logins.  Have you waited a while after a reboot to try to log in?  A while meaning at least 30 seconds, but maybe even longer just to be sure.
[17:01] <ChrisTownsend> That issue bites me all of the time:-(
[17:03]  * ChrisTownsend Tries to find the entropy bug...
[17:05] <ChrisTownsend> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1536662
[17:05] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1536662 in Mir "[regression] Black screen: Mir hangs and then crashes on startup/login due to reading from /dev/random" [High,In progress]
[17:13] <alan_g> bschaefer: ^
[17:13] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, xperia hmm that *should* be fix with umm
[17:13] <bschaefer> uSC
[17:14] <bschaefer> 0.4.1? or 0.4.2
[17:14]  * bschaefer checks
[17:14] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Really?  I thought I hit it the other day.
[17:14] <bschaefer> hmm
[17:14]  * ChrisTownsend Tries
[17:14] <alan_g> bschaefer: is USC used for Ubuntu-Desktop-Mir?
[17:14]  * alan_g forgets
[17:14] <bschaefer> alan_g, as far as i know? It should be?
[17:15] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, would you oknow :)?
[17:15] <ChrisTownsend> Yes, u-s-c is used in a Unity8/Mir desktop session.
[17:15] <bschaefer> im fearful this fix was said to be fixed but never released...
[17:16] <bschaefer> (which is slightly my own doing ... since i had to revert it last minute but didnt revert it from trunk)
[17:16]  * bschaefer double checks it made it
[17:16] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I still have the issue on my fully updated xenial machine.
[17:17] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, alright hmm let me check the package source
[17:17] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Ok
[17:17] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, one thing you can do is make a bunch of noise with your devices :)
[17:17] <bschaefer> in hope that it generates some entropy
[17:18] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: lol, yes, but that's not really a workaround.
[17:18] <bschaefer> huh the fix is there...
[17:18] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, strange, do you have a log by chance :)
[17:18]  * bschaefer must have put the override in the wrong place maybe
[17:19] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I can get one.  Is it in u-s-c.log?
[17:19] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, yeah
[17:19] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, since the current *fix* should just create a dummy cookie factory, but i wasnt ever really able to test it
[17:22] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Here is the log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15207496/
[17:22] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I'm going to try to log into the machine now after having let it sit for a while.
[17:22] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: And now it works.
[17:22] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: So fix is not working as expected.
[17:28] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, thanks!
[17:28] <bschaefer> yup
[17:28] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Sure, np!
[17:29] <bschaefer> hmm i dont see anything about that log
[17:29]  * bschaefer attempts to reproduce it
[17:29] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, easier to reproduce on a reboot?
[17:29] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Yes, it has to be after a reboot.
[17:30] <bschaefer> thanks
[17:30] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Sure
[17:38] <bschaefer> alan_g, is the default server config all loaded before overrides take in effect (for an overriden mir::Server?)
[17:38]  * bschaefer is wondering if we *attempt* to create a cookie authority, then override it
[17:39] <bschaefer> looks like it depends on ... if the function is called or not?
[17:39] <bschaefer> ie. the_cookie_authority()
[17:39] <xperia> ChrisTownsend: Thanks a lot for your Tips! I waited 5 Minutes but nothing happens. Just the Background Screen is showed and nothing else. Looked at all Logs but could not find any usefull information to find out what the Problem could be to solve. With Ubuntu Desktop i have the Same Problem. No Laucher and No Top Bar is showed. I am able however with the Right Mouse to Start Programms Like...
[17:39] <xperia> ...Nautilus and Navigate trough all dirs. Just Windows Frame Border is missing around it. Its Strange. Some worte its related to the GPU Driver.
[17:39] <alan_g> Shouldn't be - overrides should throw if anything has been built
[17:40] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, idk if thats the same issue ^
[17:40] <ChrisTownsend> xperia: Hmm, ok, definitely sounds like you have some other issue.  Unfortunately I have nothing else to add at this time:-(
[17:40] <bschaefer> if you hit this issue your desktop wouldnt do anything
[17:41] <bschaefer> alan_g, thanks!
[17:41] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Right, just black screen and maybe it eventually crashes back to lightdm.
[17:41] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, hmm since last time you did see a log info about it?
[17:41] <bschaefer> soo this could be a different issue, but could be related...
[17:42] <bschaefer> ie. see the log say NOT ENOUGH ENTROPY?
[17:42] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Well, it's the same symptom, but maybe a different cause.
[17:43] <bschaefer> true hmm i wonder if my override is doing something bad...
[17:43] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I'll try again and see if anything is in the unity8.log since that is not starting.
[17:43] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, alright, im also going to upgrade and check it out (soo ill most likly be off irc)
[17:44]  * bschaefer should really get a test laptop
[17:45] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: This is the unity8.log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15207712/
[17:45] <bschaefer> hmm
[17:45] <bschaefer> if it was the entropy issue... i wonder
[17:45] <bschaefer> you would expect
[17:46] <bschaefer> to see Not enough entropy like you saw before?
[17:46] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: But u-s-c.log looks sane.
[17:46] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: The only thing I would see before in u-s-c.log is an exception line which I'm not seeing now.
[17:46] <bschaefer> but same symptoms, ie. once you generate enough *entropy* or do things enough
[17:46] <bschaefer> hmm
[17:46] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Right
[17:47] <bschaefer> if it was an issue with my override you would expect to see the issue *every* time
[17:47]  * bschaefer will be upgraded soon
[17:47] <bschaefer> ill look at it
[17:47] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I do see the issue every time if I don't wait long enough before logging in.
[17:48] <bschaefer> thats strange
[17:48] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I just don't see std::exception(blah) in u-s-c.log like I would before.
[17:48] <xperia> best would be if there is a possibility haveîng a very verbose version of ubuntu-desktop-mir that can be installed to see what exactly is happening and where it hangs.
[17:48] <bschaefer> thats my starting plan :)
[17:49] <bschaefer> reproduce, recompile/test
[17:49] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Yeah, you should get a testing laptop.  One for that purpose would be pretty cheap.
[17:49] <bschaefer> yeah
[17:49] <xperia> i would need to have a armhf version of it
[17:51] <bschaefer> xperia, err this isnt the desktop?
[17:51] <bschaefer> deskop is x86/amd64
[17:52]  * bschaefer goes to test and logs of irc
[17:52] <xperia> well have the same problem with ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop-mir
[17:52] <xperia> mir is touch gui of ubuntu desktop
[17:53] <xperia> btw just to be sure that i have doen everything right
[17:53] <xperia> what for steps are needed to install ubuntu-desktop-mir inside a chrooted debootstrap rootfs?
[17:54] <xperia> is apt-get install ubuntu-desktop-mir only needed or it is requered to do more like modify some scripts add aditional users and so on ?
[17:54] <xperia> maybe is realted also to some missing additional config steps.
[17:55] <ChrisTownsend> xperia: Sounds to me you are doing something *very* custom.
[17:55] <xperia> yeees i am trying to port ubuntu touch desktop to a new device
[17:55] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, hmm getting a different issue
[17:56] <xperia> it works actually. ubuntu boots on new device. login screen is showed. i am able to login but after this just background and nothing else.
[17:56] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15207808/
[17:56] <bschaefer> xperia, yeah that sadly isnt the same issue im looking at :( or suspecting
[17:57] <ChrisTownsend> xperia: I don't think your pulling in a desktop environment.  You probably need unity8.
[17:57] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: You may need to remove some package.
[17:57] <bschaefer> :|
[17:57] <bschaefer> yeah
[17:57] <bschaefer> figured
[17:57] <xperia> bschaefer i am sure we have both the same problem
[17:57] <bschaefer> but which ones haha
[17:57] <xperia> its the gpu driver
[17:57] <bschaefer> xperia, but you see unity8 right?
[17:58] <bschaefer> err or based on my log?
[17:58] <xperia> what for a gpu do you have ?
[17:58] <bschaefer> some intel one
[17:58]  * bschaefer looks
[17:58] <xperia> do sudo lsmod
[17:58] <bschaefer> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics (rev 09)
[17:59] <xperia> and what does sudo lsmod show
[17:59] <xperia> on my side the gpu driver is not loaded but it looks like its needed for the display of the Ubuntu GUI
[18:00] <bschaefer> i915
[18:00] <xperia> need to work on this. loading of the rigth gpu driver on my side.
[18:00] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Did you apt-get autoremove any unneeded packages?
[18:01] <bschaefer> o lots
[18:01] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Also, what mir mesa packages to you have?
[18:03] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, 4
[18:03]  * bschaefer also isnt sure which mesa package you're refering to :)
[18:03] <bschaefer> mir-client-platform-mesa4:amd64
[18:04] <bschaefer> ii  mir-platform-graphics-mesa-kms7:amd64                0.19.3+16.04.20160212-0ubuntu1              amd64        Display server for Ubuntu - platform library for KMS Mesa
[18:04] <bschaefer> ii  mir-platform-graphics-mesa-x7:amd64                  0.19.3+16.04.20160212-0ubuntu1              amd64        Display server for Ubuntu - platform library for X11 Mesa
[18:04] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: lol, yeah, those are what I was talkin' 'bout.
[18:05] <xperia> bschaefer: from your Log it Load this Graphic Library here => graphics-mesa-kms.so.7 then it try to load mircommon Kernel Module => mircommon: Loading module: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/mir/server-platform/input-evdev.so.4
[18:05] <xperia> and it crashes. I am sure its related to Driver like on my Side.
[18:05] <xperia> [2016-02-26 09:53:07.267594] mircommon: Loading module: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/mir/server-platform/input-evdev.so.5
[18:05] <xperia> [2016-02-26 09:53:07.268073] mircommon: Loading module: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/mir/server-platform/input-evdev.so.4
[18:05] <bschaefer> xperia, try doing a auto remove of packages
[18:05]  * bschaefer just removed a bunch
[18:05] <bschaefer> let me reboot
[18:09] <bschaefer> hmm now gtk3 wont load :|
[18:09] <bschaefer> umm
[18:09] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, same issue let me check
[18:10] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Why does this stuff have to be so temperamental????:)
[18:10] <bschaefer> :||||
[18:11] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, not sure :( and im pretty sure this is blocking your stuff atm?
[18:11] <bschaefer> hmm
[18:11] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: You have the same platform module issue?
[18:11] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: From you previous pastebin that is?
[18:11] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, yeah
[18:11] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Mine is not a client platform module issue.
[18:12] <bschaefer> i just upgrade a bunch though...
[18:12] <bschaefer> upgraded*
[18:19] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: It looks like from your pastebin, it is trying to load an older version of the driver .so's.  Here's yours: server-mesa-x11.so.7 and graphics-mesa-kms.so.7.  Mine are both .8.
[18:19] <ChrisTownsend> Dang, he just left.
[18:22] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, hmm works fine for me
[18:22] <bschaefer> unity8 :|
[18:22] <bschaefer> takes 5-8 seconds to load
[18:22] <bschaefer> but idk if thats normal or not...
[18:23] <bschaefer> dam entropy pool
[18:23] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: You mean you can (fairly) immediately get to Unity8 after a reboot.
[18:23] <ChrisTownsend> ?
[18:23] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, yeah
[18:23] <bschaefer> twice in a row from boot
[18:23] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: 5-8 seconds is normal.
[18:23] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:23] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Never works for me.
[18:23] <bschaefer> let me ... write something that will drain my entropy
[18:23] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, try to do a dist-upgrade?
[18:23] <bschaefer> and what version of USC do you have
[18:23] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I did as of about an hour ago.
[18:24] <bschaefer> dang
[18:24] <ChrisTownsend> $ apt-cache policy unity-system-compositor
[18:24] <bschaefer> hmmmm
[18:24] <ChrisTownsend> unity-system-compositor:
[18:24] <ChrisTownsend>   Installed: 0.4.2+16.04.20160219.1-0ubuntu1
[18:24] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:24] <bschaefer> hmm
[18:25] <bschaefer> but yeah let me write something that will drain my entropy pool then attempt to log in
[18:26] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: It should be emptied on reboot, no?
[18:26] <bschaefer> entropy gets generated from devices
[18:26] <bschaefer> starting from boot
[18:26] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Maybe you have busy devices?:)
[18:26] <bschaefer> soo it really depends on how much *gets* generated on boot
[18:26] <bschaefer> haha
[18:26] <bschaefer> i didnt touch anything
[18:26] <bschaefer> in hopes to get something...
[18:27] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, you can do: cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
[18:27] <bschaefer> maybe if you can try to print that out in tty1 ... before logging into unity8 to see how much you have?
[18:27] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Also, before, it would crash back out to lightdm and I'd get the exception message in u-s-c.log, but now, it just sits at the black screen.
[18:28] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Ok, I'll try that.
[18:28] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, hmm
[18:28] <bschaefer> vogons any other changes in USC/boot stuff with mir that could cause a black screen with no message?
[18:28]  * bschaefer still assumes my code somewhere but i can reproduce
[18:29] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, the thing is *all* we need is 1 byte
[18:29] <bschaefer> of entropy
[18:29] <bschaefer> err 1 bit
[18:29] <bschaefer> all we need to know is we can read from it, as we select(..) on /dev/random
[18:29] <bschaefer> which should tell us its ok to read from
[18:29] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Hmm, ok.  entropy_avail showed stuff and it worked.
[18:29] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, yeah ... im worried that you logging into your tty
[18:29] <bschaefer> will cause entropy
[18:29] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Probably
[18:30] <bschaefer> with the clickity clackity of the keyboard
[18:30] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, how much?
[18:30] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Actually, it's through ssh, but NIC has activity
[18:30] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, like pretty low? 20-30?
[18:30] <bschaefer> or high?
[18:30] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Wouldn't typing on the keyboard to log in create entropy?
[18:30] <bschaefer> yes
[18:30] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: It was in the 30 range.
[18:30] <bschaefer> but
[18:30] <bschaefer> maybe not
[18:31] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, o thats super low
[18:31] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: This time, it didn't work.
[18:31] <bschaefer> mine is sitting at ~1000 right now
[18:31] <bschaefer> hmm 30? isnt enough
[18:31] <bschaefer> hmm i wonder if they collect entropy and dont write to /dev/random ... until?
[18:31] <bschaefer> 256 or something?
[18:31] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, keep checking the entropy?
[18:31] <bschaefer> is it going up?
[18:31] <bschaefer> that doesnt make sense though...
[18:32] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Strange, it went from 61 to 35.
[18:32] <bschaefer> bregma, would you have any ideas about entropy and when it would write to /dev/random?
[18:32] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, huh... is something eating it all up?
[18:32] <bschaefer> that *we* arent controlling?
[18:32] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Now, it's going back up...96.
[18:32] <bschaefer> that would make sense to me? You have low entropy on boot, then something eats all of it
[18:32] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: But unity8 already failed.
[18:32] <bschaefer> hmm what caused it to drop...
[18:32] <bschaefer> right
[18:32] <ChrisTownsend> No idea
[18:34] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Ok, I just tried it and entropy was at ~17 and unity8 failed to load.
[18:34] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, can you do a watch -n <command to read entropy> on your ssh?
[18:34] <bschaefer> while you're about to boot unity8?
[18:34] <bschaefer> so you can see if it drops to 0?
[18:35] <ChrisTownsend> ok, I'll try it
[18:36] <bschaefer> we dont even read from that FD
[18:36] <bschaefer> all we do is, open /dev/random, select on that FD
[18:36] <bschaefer> and when it becomes ready, we drop, then read from it
[18:36] <bschaefer> but that code *shouldnt* be running
[18:36] <bschaefer> :|
[18:37] <bschaefer> since we override it with a nothing factory
[18:37] <bschaefer> but does it actually get overriden... it should throw if something is there...but let me check
[18:37] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I saw entropy drop twice.  I'm going to see if it does this without trying to log in to unity8.
[18:38] <bschaefer> drops to 0?
[18:38] <ChrisTownsend> ~0, definitely single digits.
[18:38] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:39] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, because once we see /dev/random is open to be read, we then drop to use /dev/urandom... which wont block on that
[18:39] <bschaefer> but we shouldnt be using that code... haha... ok umm
[18:39] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Hmm, so as soon I start typing in my password in lightdm, it drops to ~0.
[18:39] <bschaefer> i need to be able to reproduce this
[18:39] <bschaefer> hmm what?
[18:39] <bschaefer> pam?
[18:39]  * bschaefer wants to blame pam
[18:39] <bschaefer> but i wont
[18:39] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Not even hitting enter, so not pam.
[18:40] <bschaefer> but doesnt lightdm interact with lightdm?
[18:40] <bschaefer> before enter?
[18:40]  * bschaefer cant find the override the cookie factory function?
[18:40] <bschaefer> i must be blind as i remember writting it
[18:40] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: So I see it drop to 0, then wait to let it build again, and then it works.
[18:40] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:40] <bschaefer> soo yeah something is eating the entropy pool, but i dont see why we would block on that?
[18:40] <bschaefer> if anything exists
[18:40] <bschaefer> we wait 30 seconds
[18:41] <bschaefer> for /dev/random to be working again
[18:41] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I don't think unity8 waits 30 seconds.
[18:41] <bschaefer> and also this function shouldnt even be running...
[18:41] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:41] <bschaefer> but it jumps back up quickly
[18:42] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: unity8 fails saying connecting to Mir has failed which must be the time it is waiting for entropy to build.
[18:42] <bschaefer> o yeah that function gets generated...
[18:42] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I think it's a race.
[18:42] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:42] <bschaefer> dang
[18:42] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, but but but ... it shouldnt be running that code :)
[18:42] <bschaefer> but i guess it must
[18:42] <bschaefer> as this makes to much sense
[18:42] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Well, not sure what to say.
[18:42] <bschaefer> but where is that expection?
[18:43] <bschaefer> yeah im just rambling to my self
[18:43] <ChrisTownsend> I know you are:)
[18:44] <bschaefer> hmmm
[18:44] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: If whatever is eating the entropy didn't eat it, then I think it would be fine.
[18:44] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, let me do some testing, to see what happens when i drop my entropy pool to 0 but just looping for ever with a
[18:44] <bschaefer> random call
[18:44] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Ok.
[18:44] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, yeah i bet it wouldnt but ... we should wait a few seconds
[18:44] <bschaefer> which should be enough to recover?
[18:45] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, how fast do it come back?
[18:45] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: I think if I type my password in slowly enough in lightdm, then it'll work.
[18:45] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, ill be logging out...bb in like ~10-15
[18:45] <bschaefer> haha
[18:45] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Fairly fast
[18:45] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, but it seems to do the check in an instant
[18:45] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:45] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Well, u-s-c is happy, it's that unity8 is not patient.
[18:45] <bschaefer> which 1 second *should* be enough time of waiting? I wonder of unity8 just instantly fails?
[18:45] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:46] <bschaefer> hmm soo if unity8 waited like 1 second when attempting to create the mir server?
[18:46] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Yeah, the unity8 upstart is just fired off and it does it stuff immediately.
[18:47] <bschaefer> didnt we use to have a spinner/sleep for this?
[18:48]  * bschaefer relogs and messes around
[18:48] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Some sort of query of u-s-c from unity8 would be nice, like "Hey, u-s-c are you ready?", and u-s-c is like, "Nope", and unity8 waits a bit before trying again.
[18:48] <bschaefer> yeah that would be nice ...
[18:48] <bschaefer> brb
[18:48] <ChrisTownsend> ok
[18:53] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, yeah i can reproduce when i do: cat /dev/random then attempt to log in
[18:54] <bschaefer> and my entropy drops to ~0 then climbs to 20-30 but yeah mir server does not start
[18:54] <bschaefer> (from the unity8 log)
[18:54] <bschaefer> but my USC log is normal...
[18:54]  * bschaefer wonders if he can reproduce this issue on a tty
[18:54] <bschaefer> with a demo server
[18:54] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Ok.  IS most definitely a race in that u-s-c is not quite ready when unity8 starts up.
[18:55] <bschaefer> yeah
[18:55] <bschaefer> but ... hmm why
[18:56] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: You mean why is u-s-c not ready?
[18:57] <bschaefer> ok... dont cat dev random and attempt to start a server in the tty... that will lock the machine up
[18:58] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, yeah on the demo server it locks up... but once i stop cating /dev/random the server works perfectly
[18:58] <bschaefer> sooo the issue is unity8 not waiting a mirco second once we attempt to start login
[18:59] <bschaefer> or start it
[18:59] <bschaefer> (well an issue)
[18:59] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Well, any way to make u-s-c ready sooner, like before?  Or does it have to wait on some entropy?
[19:00] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, well USC shouldnt need entropy...
[19:00] <bschaefer> but i should stop saying that
[19:00] <anpok> hm
[19:00] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Or whatever it is?  It's obvious that *something* related to Mir needs it.
[19:00] <bschaefer> yeah
[19:01] <anpok> bschaefer: what happened with the make the wait for dev random asynchronous?
[19:01] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: If I wait long enough then watch entropy, then log in, entropy doesn't drain and all is fine.
[19:01] <bschaefer> anpok, does anything else input wise depend on /dev/random on boot? Im pretty sure the cookies is the issue
[19:01] <anpok> +plan
[19:01] <bschaefer> anpok, needs to be done
[19:01] <bschaefer> i should write that and test it fixes this
[19:01] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: You have a task!
[19:01] <ChrisTownsend> :)
[19:01] <bschaefer> anpok, thought the USC fix would be a good hold until then
[19:01] <bschaefer> :)
[19:01] <bschaefer> but
[19:02] <bschaefer> the confusing part is the USC fix seems to do nothing but remove the throw?
[19:02] <anpok> there is another problem?
[19:02] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: In all fairness, the time needed to wait before logging in is much less than before.
[19:02] <bschaefer> ... well the throw is no longer happening but thats most likely due to unity8 puking beofr ehtne
[19:02] <bschaefer> yeah
[19:02] <anpok> ah yes..
[19:03] <bschaefer> anpok, my worry was, that i override the cookie factory
[19:03] <bschaefer> after the cookie factory is asked to be made
[19:03] <anpok> so u8 is adding the cookies to input events, right? (where is that actually happedning?)
[19:03] <anpok> -d
[19:03] <bschaefer> ie. when the_connection_creator
[19:04] <bschaefer> anpok, nope, this is all on boot
[19:04] <bschaefer> soo if i did a lazy eval
[19:04] <bschaefer> the secret shouldnt be generated...
[19:04] <bschaefer> until libinput generates an event for u8
[19:04] <anpok> aehrm
[19:04] <bschaefer> that is a keyboard/mouse
[19:04] <anpok> libinput is not in the u8  process
[19:04] <bschaefer> :|
[19:04] <bschaefer> anpok, how does it get event
[19:05] <bschaefer> events*?
[19:05] <bschaefer> a mir surface?
[19:05] <anpok> yes
[19:05] <bschaefer> which ... would be libinput? on mirs side
[19:05] <bschaefer> as u8 does not use the cookies yet
[19:05] <anpok> the one the nested display creates for each output the nested servers uses
[19:05] <bschaefer> afaik
[19:05] <anpok> yes
[19:06] <anpok> so the libinput-input platform reads events and attaches an empty cookie to it..
[19:06] <bschaefer> anpok, im pretty sure... whats happening in usc
[19:06] <bschaefer> i override the cookie factory after
[19:06] <bschaefer> the WM builder is overriden
[19:06] <bschaefer> and when the WM builder is overriden it uses
[19:06] <bschaefer> like the focus controller and a few other things
[19:06] <bschaefer> which will end up building the cookie authority
[19:06] <bschaefer> before we overrid
[19:07]  * bschaefer checks thats the issue
[19:08] <anpok> hm nothing should be created when you are still allowed to inject implementations
[19:09] <bschaefer> anpok, but ... what if you do
[19:10] <bschaefer> anpok, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15208526/
[19:10] <bschaefer> anpok, yeah actually ... those are just functions
[19:10] <bschaefer> that arent called until
[19:10] <bschaefer> after that...
[19:10] <bschaefer> :|
[19:10] <anpok> yeah
[19:10] <bschaefer> so much for that idea... as i've no clue *why* it even thinks it want entropy
[19:10] <bschaefer> ie. i've no clue why it doesnt use the stub version
[19:11] <bschaefer> thats most troubling... hmm
[19:11] <anpok> oh but it is usc failing to start or u8
[19:12] <bschaefer> anpok, both
[19:12] <bschaefer> usc is failing, then u8 freaks out
[19:12] <bschaefer> and says mir server could not start
[19:12] <bschaefer> anpok, but it also waits for a micro second to do this as well
[19:13] <bschaefer> if it only gave usc ~500ms it *should* be fine
[19:13] <ChrisTownsend> I don't think u-s-c is failing per se as it's up and running.  It's u8 failing because it seems u-s-c is not "ready".
[19:13] <bschaefer> since ChrisTownsend is losing entropy when he types
[19:13] <bschaefer> and USC blocks for a little bit waiting for /dev/random
[19:13] <bschaefer> but unity8 sees this as a failure
[19:13] <bschaefer> and terminates
[19:13] <anpok> bschaefer: but why would usc wait for /dev/random?
[19:13] <bschaefer> or just logs an issue and stops
[19:14] <bschaefer> anpok, well from the cookie authority ... even though i override it...
[19:14] <bschaefer> anpok, i just can seem to reproduce this when theres little entropy
[19:14] <ChrisTownsend> I think maybe u8 should try more than once befroe giving up, maybe adding some delay between tries and then giving up after x amount of tries.
[19:16] <ChrisTownsend> Yeah, only seems to occur for me when entropy is maybe less than 30, but that's just observation, not a measured threshold.
[19:16] <anpok> bschaefer: but there is only one place in the code.. and you seem to override that..
[19:17] <anpok> bschaefer: are you sure the right versions are being used?
[19:17] <bschaefer> anpok, i know... thats my confusion this entire time...
[19:17] <bschaefer> anpok, yeah i grabed the source from universe :(
[19:17] <bschaefer> anpok, which is why im wondering... if the override didnt work?
[19:18] <bschaefer> for w/e reason...
[19:19]  * bschaefer attempts to override the demo server...
[19:21] <bschaefer> anpok, but the override has to be working
[19:21] <bschaefer> because it was crashing before
[19:22] <bschaefer> anpok, does anything else depend on random?
[19:22]  * bschaefer cant think of it
[19:24] <bschaefer> anpok, umm im reading this... and i dont override the create functions...
[19:25] <bschaefer> but the create should be...
[19:25] <bschaefer> the override lambda it self
[19:26] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, thanks i think i've enough to work with
[19:26]  * bschaefer finds a better solution here
[19:26] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Oh good!
[19:26] <ChrisTownsend> bschaefer: Thank you too!
[19:26] <bschaefer> np!
[19:43] <bschaefer> urg stub works perfectly in the demo server
[19:45] <bschaefer> anpok, the nested serer... vs the usc server
[19:45] <bschaefer> wouldnt both need to be overriden?
[19:59] <anpok> bschaefer: well .. i thought one shoud be the cookie authority for the session?
[19:59] <bschaefer> anpok, but .. doesnt unity8 make its own server? with its own overrides and everything?
[20:00] <anpok> sure
[20:00] <bschaefer> soo unity8 will be depending on /dev/random
[20:00] <bschaefer> since we dont override that server?
[20:00] <bschaefer> (but it will be needed)
[20:00] <bschaefer> soo we cant soo yeah let me create the lazy eval
[20:01] <bschaefer> and it should fix the issue...
[20:01] <anpok> yes
[21:53] <bschaefer> ChrisTownsend, ok i have a fix
[21:54] <bschaefer> test confirmed (being able to log in with cat /dev/random going on, and while smashing the keyboard)
[21:54] <bschaefer> soo the delay in creating the secret is enough to allow for usc to start and unity8 to be so it gives it time to create the secret


[20:26] <FernandoMiguel> cwillu_at_work: how was your bday ??
[23:00] <FernandoMiguel> happy birthday akgraner :**


[08:35] <foobarry> iplayer works on my near identical work PC ..strange
[08:35] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:09] <diplo> Morning all
[10:09] <brobostigon> morning
[11:42] <diddledan> inkscape is now in the windows 10 appstore?! :-o
[11:42] <diddledan> as is krita
[11:43]  * zmoylan-pi waits till win7 is in the win 10 app store... :-)
[11:45] <diddledan> lol
[11:45] <diddledan> I can't find opensuse though
[11:46] <zmoylan-pi> is emacs there? at least a decent os replacement... :-P
[11:48] <diddledan> nope
[11:48] <diddledan> I can't work emacs, anyway
[11:48] <zmoylan-pi> well they lost stallman then as a customer... :-D
[12:22] <diddledan> fun systemd bug: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237
[12:23] <diddledan> screenie if you don't want to read the whole bug:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/DIvxKmFX/
[12:24] <diddledan> basically if your username begins with the number 0 then any services spawned by systemd supposedly for your username get root privs instead
[12:26] <foobarry> anyone ever compiled python without optimisations enabled?
[12:27] <foobarry> seems a lot *slower* :|
[12:27] <foobarry> to execute code now
[12:33] <diddledan> well surely without optimisations WILL be slower, no?
[12:34] <diddledan> the whole point of optimising things is to make them faster, so without optimisations it'll be defacto slower
[12:54] <foobarry> the opposite happens
[12:54] <foobarry> configure with optimisations, resulting in SLOWER operations
[13:18]  * zmoylan-pi remembers an ancient cpm computer that had a super expensive compiler for basic programs... the only difference between running the code in interpreted and compiled was that you couldn't ctrl-c the exe and look at the code... no optimisation there baby 8-)
[13:20] <zmoylan-pi> when i compiled opl on psions the only noticeable difference was size of the binary was tiny compared to the source code... handy on a device with tiny storage
[13:35] <diddledan> good news everybody: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40481561
[13:37] <zmoylan-pi> i seem to get on fine with 1-2mb broadband, not too fussed
[13:39] <zmoylan-pi> 1-2 times a year i download an iso... and even then i can wait...
[13:42] <zmoylan-pi> but netflix users on the other hand will rejoice... :-)
[18:17] <m0nkey_> You'll hate my super expensive 200mbps then
[18:18]  * zmoylan-pi still has a 9600bps fax modem somewhere...
[18:21]  * brobostigon has one laying in a box behind his desk from 1998.
[18:26] <zmoylan-pi> this one is a portable one so will off a p9 battery for a few hours
[18:27] <brobostigon> handy.
[18:31] <zmoylan-pi> for your hacking the gibson from a beer garden opportunities... :-)
[18:32] <foobarry> starting to wonder if my home IP is blacklisted from iplayer
[18:32] <foobarry> live bbc wimbledon works
[18:34] <brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: :)
[20:04] <CoderEurope> So what does the room think of Pop!_OS ?
[20:07] <zmoylan-pi> i read the description and thought... meh...
[20:09] <foobarry> CoderEurope: bad idea
[20:12] <m0nkey_> Is this just another Ubuntu ISO with a custom desktop theme?
[20:18] <foobarry> for now it seems
[20:19] <foobarry> just seems dumb and fractious while alienating customers
[20:19] <foobarry> but hey
[20:19] <foobarry> i'm not a customer, or even remotely prospective so it doesn't matter to me
[20:20] <zmoylan-pi> i think someone is offering a laptop for sale with it preinstalled so it might appeal to newbies who want to give linux a spin without the horrors of trying to install it themselves...
[20:53] <diddledan> I'm betting it was created to allow them to ship ubuntu without paying for the name
[20:59] <m0nkey_> What have I done? I've booked a flight & hotel and bought a ticket for a BSD conference. Goodbye cruel Linux!
[20:59]  * m0nkey_ quits (Quit: Terminated by an evil penguin)
[21:01]  * zmoylan-pi bets m0nkey_ will return wearing sandles...
[21:01] <m0nkey_> lol
[21:02] <zmoylan-pi> brown sandals with blue socks indicating technical rank and complete lack of taste...
[21:05] <m0nkey_> I'll send Beastie you way
[21:31] <diddledan> m0nkey_: which one?
[21:37] <m0nkey_> All of them
[21:39] <m0nkey_> Or do you mean which conference?
[21:51] <diddledan> which con
[22:00] <m0nkey_> vBSDCon
[22:01] <m0nkey_> http://www.verisign.com/en_US/internet-technology-news/verisign-events/vbsdcon/index.xhtml