[00:00] <fwereade> niemeyer, that one should be a trivial, it's the State.Relation(...Endpoint) -> State.EndpointsRelation(...Endpoint) + state.Relation(int)
[00:00] <fwereade> niemeyer, that IIRC we agreed on a few days ago
[00:00] <niemeyer> fwereade: +1
[00:03] <mramm> niemeyer: cool
[00:05] <davecheney> niemeyer: % juju bootstrap --upload-tools
[00:05] <davecheney> error: cannot start bootstrap instance: cannot make user data: invalid machine configuration: initial password is empty
[00:05] <davecheney> submitting branch now
[00:05] <davecheney> well, for review
[00:06] <fwereade> niemeyer, how pleasing, a palindromic CL id: https://codereview.appspot.com/6601066
[00:07] <niemeyer> fwereade: Wow, beautiful :)
[00:07] <niemeyer> davecheney: Hmm, ok.. curious about the cause
[00:08] <davecheney> niemeyer: looking for it now
[00:08] <niemeyer> fwereade: Looking already
[00:08] <davecheney> at least we know where the problem is now
[00:08] <fwereade> niemeyer, great -- and https://codereview.appspot.com/6650043 shouldn't be too controversial either
[00:08] <niemeyer> fwereade: nicely straightforward
[00:09] <niemeyer> fwereade: Cool, looking
[00:09] <davecheney> niemeyer:         password := e.Config().AdminSecret()
[00:09] <davecheney>         if password != "" {
[00:09] <davecheney>                 password = trivial.PasswordHash(password)
[00:09] <davecheney>         }
[00:09] <davecheney> ec2/bootstrap
[00:10] <niemeyer> davecheney: Hmm.. that looks okay..?
[00:10] <davecheney> AdminSecret() must be returning ""
[00:10]  * fwereade calmly resists the temptation to submit tonight, and really really goes off to bed, he can look forward to it in the morning :)
[00:12] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hmm.. one last question? :)
[00:12]  * fwereade hasn't really gone
[00:12]  * fwereade is sadly predictable :)
[00:12] <niemeyer> fwereade: ROTFL
[00:12] <davecheney> niemeyer: ahh, found it
[00:13] <davecheney> i was missing an admin-secret key for one of my environments
[00:13] <davecheney> but the schema didn't complain
[00:13] <niemeyer> fwereade: Why is it not sending the plain slice it gets?
[00:14] <niemeyer> fwereade: It seems to be sending all relations it ever received at all times
[00:14] <fwereade> niemeyer, it clears them out when it sends
[00:14] <fwereade> niemeyer, f.relations = nil
[00:14] <fwereade> niemeyer, then it collects a set of ids it's seen until someone receives again
[00:15] <niemeyer> fwereade: Ahh, I see
[00:15] <fwereade> niemeyer, I didn;t want to just collect by appending because dupes would be icky
[00:15] <niemeyer> fwereade: I suggest keeping the form as a list of ids still
[00:16] <niemeyer> fwereade: But that's minor.. it looks pleasantly straightforward too
[00:16] <davecheney> niemeyer: from ec2/config.go
[00:16] <davecheney>                 "admin-secret":   schema.String(), // Unused. Here just for compatibility.
[00:16] <niemeyer> fwereade: Have a good sleep!
[00:16] <davecheney> ^ clearly, this isn't true
[00:16] <niemeyer> fwereade: and thanks
[00:16] <fwereade> niemeyer, all I think I'll ever want to do is iterate over it
[00:16] <fwereade> niemeyer, and it feels a bit icky to (potentially) merge into a list without dupes every change
[00:16] <niemeyer> davecheney: Indeed, but that shouldn't, I think, be affecting anything
[00:17] <fwereade> niemeyer, what's the advantage of a list?
[00:17] <davecheney> niemeyer:                 "admin-secret":  schema.Omit,
[00:17] <niemeyer> fwereade: I'm willing to bet this is orders of magnitude faster and consumes less space in the real cases
[00:17] <davecheney> means AccessSecret always retuns a value
[00:17] <davecheney> and that value is ""
[00:18] <fwereade> niemeyer, I guess this is indeed not really one of the N=100000 cases
[00:18] <niemeyer> fwereade: not only that, but real cases will generally see no appends at all, and allocating and handling a sequence of bytes is pretty friendly to the hardware
[00:19] <fwereade> niemeyer, all true -- thanks :)
[00:19] <niemeyer> fwereade: np, and have a good night! :-)
[00:19] <fwereade> niemeyer, consider it done... but tomorrow ;)
[00:19] <fwereade> niemeyer, davecheney, gn
[00:19] <davecheney> fwereade: gn
[00:19] <niemeyer> davecheney: Isn't that the "default" value?
[00:19] <davecheney> yup, found it in a few places
[00:20] <davecheney> which means a valid config can have a "" for the inital password
[00:21] <niemeyer> davecheney: It can, but that's not related to this logic
[00:21] <niemeyer> davecheney: and I thought you had said you didn't have an empty admin-secret?
[00:21] <davecheney> niemeyer: that was my fault
[00:22] <davecheney> i didn't read my environments.yaml closely enough
[00:22] <davecheney> that key was missing from some envs
[00:22] <niemeyer> davecheney: Ah, okay, so without the admin secret indeed it will fail I suppose
[00:22] <davecheney> just confirming now
[00:22] <davecheney> ok, yes, with an admin-secret it is working
[00:22] <niemeyer> davecheney: We should prevent that, but ec2 is not the right place.. that should happen in environs/config/config.go
[00:22] <niemeyer> davecheney: Woohay! That's great news.
[00:22] <davecheney> niemeyer: already fixing
[00:23] <davecheney> niemeyer: and i've added double underpants in cloudinit
[00:39] <davecheney> niemeyer: before I get too far into this
[00:39] <davecheney> is this statement correct -> admin-secret is now a required configuration item ?
[00:52] <niemeyer> davecheney: I think so
[00:52] <niemeyer> davecheney: Assuming it all works well
[00:52] <davecheney> niemeyer: ok, i'll propose this and we can discuss it with rog tonight
[00:53] <davecheney> well, once I get all the tests passing
[06:32] <rogpeppe> davecheney: morning!
[06:34] <TheMue> morning
[06:35] <davecheney> morning
[06:44] <TheMue> davecheney: not yet time for dinner? ;)
[06:44] <davecheney> TheMue: soon
[06:45] <davecheney> still fighting with tests
[06:45] <davecheney> https://codereview.appspot.com/6659048
[06:46] <TheMue_> hmmmp, network
[06:50] <davecheney> rogpeppe: i've hit a roadblock with admin-secret
[06:50] <davecheney> niemeyer is pretty sure it is now a required configuartion item
[06:51] <rogpeppe> davecheney: oh dear. tell me about it
[06:51] <rogpeppe> davecheney: fuck, yes it is
[06:51] <rogpeppe> davecheney: alternatively i *could* change things so it would work without it
[06:51] <davecheney> rogpeppe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1065750
[06:51] <davecheney> ^ long version
[06:52] <rogpeppe> davecheney: is there some problem you're having even when you *do* specify admin-secret?
[06:52] <davecheney> nope, it works then
[06:52] <davecheney> but without something liek  https://codereview.appspot.com/6659048 (unfinished)
[06:52] <rogpeppe> davecheney: cool, i'll just make it mandatory and all problems will go away :-)
[06:52] <davecheney> you can happily deploy a non working config
[06:53] <davecheney> rogpeppe: yes, but if you make it manditory, then things like BootstrapConfig stop working
[06:53] <rogpeppe> davecheney: yeah, it was my intention to make it mandatory - it slide off my todo list, i'm sorry.
[06:53] <rogpeppe> davecheney: why's that?
[06:53] <rogpeppe> s/slide/slid
[06:53] <davecheney>         // We never want to push admin-secret to the cloud.
[06:53] <davecheney>         delete(m, "admin-secret")
[06:53] <davecheney>         m["agent-version"] = tools.Number.String()
[06:53] <davecheney>         return config.New(m)
[06:53] <davecheney> if m is lacking "admin-secret"
[06:53] <davecheney> config.New() will fail
[06:54] <rogpeppe> hmm
[06:54] <rogpeppe> so it's mandatory at one level, but not at another
[06:54] <davecheney> unpossible
[06:54] <rogpeppe> i'd forgotten that wrinkle
[06:55] <rogpeppe> i think probably juju.NewConn (?) should fail if there's no admin secret,
[06:56] <rogpeppe> davecheney: but config should continue to work without it
[06:56] <davecheney> well, my first effort was https://codereview.appspot.com/6659048/patch/2001/3003
[06:56] <davecheney> but that just spiraled out of control trying to make all the tests pass
[06:56] <rogpeppe> davecheney: yeah, that won't work
[06:56] <rogpeppe> davecheney: you've gotta stop the problem at source
[06:58] <rogpeppe> davecheney: i'm happy to fix this problem if you haven't done so already. it's all my fault.
[06:59] <davecheney> rogpeppe: have a crack, i'm done for hte day
[06:59] <davecheney> the diff is just getting longer and longer
[06:59] <rogpeppe> davecheney: ok, thanks for taking a look
[06:59] <rogpeppe> davecheney: can you push your latest attempt?
[07:00] <davecheney> rogpeppe: i just did
[07:00] <rogpeppe> davecheney: cool, so https://codereview.appspot.com/6659048 is it?
[07:01] <davecheney> y
[07:32] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, TheMue: I imagine, but would like to confirm, that none of you are implementing service or relation lifecycle stuff?
[07:33] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: correct in my case at least
[07:33] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: morning, BTW!
[07:33] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, cheers
[07:33] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, heyhey :)
[07:33] <TheMue> fwereade__: yes, i'm doing firewaller stuff right now
[07:33] <fwereade__> TheMue, thanks
[07:33] <TheMue> fwereade__, rogpeppe: morning
[07:33] <fwereade__> TheMue, (morning :))
[08:33]  * fwereade__ has just spotted where he broke the uniter
[08:45] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, am I to understand that we can't deploy things atm for authy reasons?
[08:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: no.
[08:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: but you do need to add an admin-secret to your environ config
[08:45] <fwereade__> rogpeppe, ah, ok, I've always had one of them lying around anyway ;p
[08:46] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: i'm just trying to work out where to put the checks to ensure that it's set
[08:46] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: config.Config is unfortunately *not* the right place
[08:47]  * fwereade__ has always maintained that an input config and an internal config are not the same thing, and that the hassle of pretending they are is not wrth it
[08:47]  * rogpeppe tends to agree, but we have what we have now.
[08:49]  * fwereade__ wishes rogpeppe good luck
[08:51] <rogpeppe> fwereade__: part of the problem is that it's quite hard to enable passwords for local tests... but maybe it's ok now since my "restart mongo on unauthorised-access-failure" hack
[08:52] <rogpeppe> TheMue: hiya
[08:52] <TheMue> rogpeppe: ;)
[09:37] <Aram> moin.
[09:49] <fwereade__> Aram, heyhey
[09:50] <fwereade__> TheMue, I'm a bit confused, would you confirm for me what security groups I should be seeing with a bootstrap + deploy mongodb?
[10:04] <TheMue> fwereade__: today one named "juju-<groupname>" and one per machine named "juju-<groupname>-<machineid>".
[10:05] <fwereade__> TheMue, ok, cool -- but I am confused, because none of them seem to have any rules; and yet I can connect to state just fine: is it immediately apparent that I am being stupid?
[10:07] <TheMue> fwereade__: the juju-group afaik has all ports open between each other and 22 to the world. the other group should have those ports worldwide open which are needed.
[11:29] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, can I get a trivial LGTM on https://codereview.appspot.com/6656051
[11:30] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: looking
[11:30] <TheMue> yummy, had a good lunch, kraut
[11:31] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: not *that* trivial :-)
[11:31] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, the code change really really is -- and, bother, I thought the test changes would be clear
[11:32] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: the code change really is (although i'm not sure i see the implications - why didn't it crash before?); the test changes need a little thought though.
[11:32] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, it did, I think
[11:32] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, I believe this was what was hitting davecheny 2 nights ago
[11:32] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ah. have you got a test that failed before and now passes?
[11:33] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, yes; the expanded config-changed test
[11:33] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, in it, config-changed now records the output of config-get, and we verify that we see what we should
[11:36] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: by "verify lack of hooks" do you mean that you're verifying lack of hook *executions* ?
[11:36] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, ha, yes
[11:36] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ok, that makes more sense
[11:37] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'm still really enjoying your little test DSL BTW
[11:37] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, yeah, it makes me happy too :)
[11:37] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: who needs LISP, eh? :-)
[11:37] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, haha :)
[11:41] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: what does node.Update do?
[11:41] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: scratch that
[11:41] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i just read the code, doh!
[11:42] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, ha, yeah, I find myself doing that :)
[11:42] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i mean i actually read the code for changeConfig.step properly and noticed the little "s" arg to Update...
[11:42] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, ha, yeah
[11:43] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: so config-get never worked at all before?
[11:43] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: anyway, LGTM
[11:44] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'll leave it up to you to judge whether it's trivial enough to submit now
[11:44] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, it did until I did a half-baked (agreed) post-LGTM change the other day
[11:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ahhh
[11:45] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, since it fixes my own monstrous howler, I feel it is very important that it be sumbmitted asap :)
[11:45] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, and I'm preety sure the test changes are all positive
[11:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: go for it
[11:45] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, cheers
[11:46] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: a similarly almost-trivial CL: https://codereview.appspot.com/6601067
[11:48] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, LGTM -- need to be off for lunch now though
[12:10] <rogpeppe> lunch too
[13:50] <Aram> I need some information about the firewaller and machiner.
[13:51] <Aram> I need to understand better what to replace change.Remove with.
[13:51] <Aram> Dying, Dead, or (Dead OR Removed).
[13:51] <Aram> rogpeppe: fwereade_: TheMue ^ ^
[13:52] <rogpeppe> Aram: for which watcher?
[13:52] <Aram> rogpeppe: Machine(Principal)?UnitsWatcher.
[13:53] <Aram> I used Dead OR Remove, and tests pass.
[13:53] <Aram> but I am not sure if that's right or not.
[13:53] <Aram> actually I used Dead OR Remove OR Unassigned
[13:53] <TheMue> Aram: i would prefer dead to keep it consistent with the lifecycle
[13:53] <fwereade_> Aram, AIUI that is what we need there, yes
[13:54] <fwereade_> Aram, but I had a vague feeling that we wanted to implement all the life-group watchers as sending lists of ids?
[13:54] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: Dead OR Remove OR Unassigned seems about right
[13:54] <Aram> fwereade_: that's what I did, I reimplemented the units watcher to send list of ids.
[13:54] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, agree, I think, haven't 100% thought through unassigned
[13:55] <fwereade_> Aram, ah, excellent -- I thought the idea was that we should just be sending every life change, rather than filtering those at the watcher level?
[13:56] <Aram> fwereade_: I'm not sure I follow. you want the watcher to return map[Life][]string instead of []string?
[13:56] <fwereade_> Aram, not at all
[13:57] <fwereade_> Aram, above, I got the impression that you were not sending changes from alive to dying; was that wrong?
[13:58] <Aram> this is the behavior now:
[13:58] <Aram> / MachinePrincipalUnitsWatcher notifies about assignments and lifecycle
[13:58] <Aram> / changes for all principal units assigned to a machine.
[13:58] <Aram> /
[13:58] <Aram> / The first event emitted contains the unit names of all principal
[13:58] <Aram> / units currently assigned to the machine, irrespective of their life
[13:58] <Aram> / state. From then on, a new event is emitted whenever a unit is assigned
[13:58] <Aram> / to or unassigned from the machine, or the lifecycle of a unit that is
[13:58] <Aram> / currently assigned to the machine changes.
[13:58] <Aram> /
[13:58] <Aram> / After a unit is found to be Dead, no further event will include it.
[13:58] <Aram>
[13:58] <Aram> so the watcher fires both when life is changed, and when is a change in assignment, reglardless of lifecycle.
[13:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'm having second thoughts about that earlier CL. here's an alternative: https://codereview.appspot.com/6601068/
[13:59] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: i'm seriously considering adding a NoBootstrap field to JujuConnSuite, but fear it might be condemned as crackful.
[14:01] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, not especially keen myself, I think I liked the earlier one more
[14:01]  * Aram loved $CDPATH
[14:01] <Aram> s
[14:01] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: the problem is i need to do exactly the same thing in CmdSuite
[14:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: and it seems a bit silly to duplicate *almost* all of JujuConnSuite's functionality in two places, when we actually want something only slightly less than it does
[14:02] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, hmm, good point -- I think I'd prefer a NoBootstrap field to what you have there
[14:02] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, but I can't predict niemeyer's response
[14:02] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: ok, that's useful thanks
[14:03] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: maybe i should just bite the bullet and do the duplication
[14:03] <fwereade_> rogpeppe, I suspect that will give yu the smoothest path through review
[14:42] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: done: https://codereview.appspot.com/6660048
[14:55] <Aram> holy cow, bazaar really doesn't have the option of reverting a commit.
[14:55] <Aram> you need to do some merge magic
[14:57] <rogpeppe> Aram: bzr uncommit ?
[14:58] <Aram> rogpeppe: that only removes the last commits, and it really removes them, I don't want that, I want to undo an arbitrary change bu applying the reverse diff and commit the new undo operation.
[14:58] <rogpeppe> Aram: yeah, you're out of luck there.
[14:58] <rogpeppe> Aram: i've used patch for that before
[15:00] <Aram> you can do a merge . -r -X..-X+1
[15:01] <rogpeppe> Aram: i didn't know merge accepted revno ranges
[15:06] <Aram> rogpeppe: yeah, it worked just fine
[15:45] <Aram> rogpeppe: fwereade_: TheMue: PTAL at the firewaller and machiner changes: https://codereview.appspot.com/6625069
[15:46] <Aram> firewaller and machiner tests pass with those changes and the new watcher.
[15:52] <TheMue> Aram: in firewaller, when are units added after watcher changes?
[15:53] <TheMue> Aram: ah, found, is ok
[15:53] <TheMue> Aram: missed the line
[16:08] <Aram> Amazon doesn't like the diacritical marks in my name.
[16:08] <Aram> wtf.
[16:08] <Aram> I can't set a name if it's not ASCII
[16:12] <Aram> "We could not verify the address you have provided. If you are sure this is a correct address, please try again."
[16:12] <Aram> how is amazon veryfying my address and why?
[16:12] <Aram> fuck you.
[16:12] <Aram> already spent to much time on this.
[16:12] <Aram> this should not have taken more than 30 seconds.
[16:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade_, Aram: trivial (code movement only): https://codereview.appspot.com/6651062/
[16:19] <rogpeppe> Aram: i'm sorry i'm not sure i'll have time to go through the watcher changes today. i'll try though.
[16:24] <Aram> rogpeppe: don't worry.
[16:24]  * Aram is done for today.
[16:24] <Aram> cheers everyone, have a great weekend.
[16:30] <rogpeppe> fwereade_: can i get a quick LGTM on the above branch please?
[16:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: ^
[16:31] <rogpeppe> https://codereview.appspot.com/6651062/
[16:31] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: On holiday, and on a call
[16:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: np at all
[16:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: hope you're having a good day!
[16:31] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Hello, btw :)
[16:31] <rogpeppe> niemeyer: likewise
[16:32] <rogpeppe> TheMue: ping
[16:37] <TheMue> rogpeppe: pong
[16:37] <rogpeppe> TheMue: any chance of a quick LGTM on the above CL?
[16:37] <rogpeppe> TheMue: code movement only, no code changes
[16:37] <TheMue> rogpeppe: already looking
[16:38] <TheMue> rogpeppe: you got it ;)
[16:38] <rogpeppe> TheMue: ta!
[16:43] <rogpeppe> TheMue, fwereade_: here's another one if you fancy having a look: https://codereview.appspot.com/6653050/
[16:48] <TheMue> rogpeppe: thumbs up
[16:48] <rogpeppe> TheMue: thanks
[17:00] <TheMue> so, i'm off. have a nice weekend
[17:22] <rogpeppe> me too, have a great weekend everyone!
[17:24] <niemeyer> mramm: I have a good chuckle when I'm in a phone meeting with Mark S. and then there's that message saying "The LEADER has left the conference!" and all goes silent at the end..
[17:24] <niemeyer> rogpeppe: Have a good one
[17:25]  * niemeyer steps out for more family activities..
[17:26] <niemeyer> Have a good weekend all
[17:27] <mramm> niemeyer: have a great weekend
[17:27] <mramm> niemeyer: I never saw it that way, but it is great.
[17:59] <SpamapS> would be a great prank to have IS change that message to 'Elvis has left the building'


[00:08] <cherylj> hey perrito666, did wallyworld ping you yet about opening bugs for providers with know JES issues?  (this is the destroying multiple environments with the same name issue that was brought up in Oakland)
[00:09] <cherylj> mpontillo: you missed the fun :)  most of it was over in #maas
[00:09] <cherylj> mpontillo: it was regarding bug 1534795, if you're interested in catching up
[00:09] <mup> Bug #1534795: unit loses network connectivity during bootstrap: juju 1.25.2 + maas 1.9 <maas-provider> <uosci> <juju-core:Fix Committed by frobware> <juju-core 1.25:Fix Committed by frobware> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534795>
[00:09] <perrito666> cherylj: nope, in which provider?
[00:10] <cherylj> perrito666: all of them with known issues :)
[00:10] <cherylj> perrito666: the idea is we open bugs so we can point to them as known issues for 2.0-alpha1
[00:15] <mpontillo> cherylj: thanks; I read through the bug. will wait to hear frobware's findings
[03:03] <menn0> thumper: for model migrations, I need to store the connection and auth details for the target controller
[03:04] <menn0> thumper: will suggested I made the API that creates the document which holds this stuff take something similar to api.Info
[03:05] <menn0> thumper: and I'm tempted to take a tag instead of a username, in case we end up using machine accounts at some stage
[03:05] <menn0> thumper: is storing a tag in the DB a no no?
[03:07] <thumper> hmm...
[03:07]  * menn0 wonders about going back to just accepting usernames
[03:07] <thumper> we haven't so far, but I think that this case may be fine
[03:07] <menn0> it does simplify some other aspects
[03:07] <thumper> for storing credentials
[03:08] <menn0> thumper: it's more flexible if any tag is allowed
[03:08] <thumper> agreed
[03:08] <menn0> i'll do that then
[07:54] <mup> Bug #1536025 opened: LXD provider unable to setup configuration correctly <bouncing> <lxd-provider> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536025>
[08:00] <anastasiamac> jam: imagemetadata worker patch is ready to go... waiting for master to unblock... this should fix the above lxd difficulty \o/
[08:03] <jam> anastasiamac: so is that bug a duplicate then?
[08:03] <jam> well, not that one, the previous one
[08:03] <jam> bug #1536019
[08:03] <mup> Bug #1536019: LXD provider causes imagemedata worker to bounce <bouncing> <imagemetadata> <lxd> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536019>
[08:04] <anastasiamac> jam: i think so... for some providers, this worker should not run... this is what this patch does :D
[08:08] <jam> anastasiamac: well, fwiw, i'd love it if we knew about the images that were used for LXD so we didn't have to state in "environments.yaml" that you need to run lxd-images import
[08:08] <jam> anastasiamac: we could do the import ourselves, and know when we need to update the base image *and* the templated ones (if we go that far)
[08:09] <anastasiamac> jam: sounds reasonable \o/
[09:06] <frobware> dooferlad, ping. sync today?
[09:11] <dooferlad> frobware: sorry, yes, still able to talk?
[09:11] <frobware> yes
[09:46] <dooferlad> frobware: http://pactcoffee.com/spread/JAMES-CMOCKA@cp
[09:46] <dooferlad> frobware: you know, just in case
[10:12] <TheMue> hehe, the coffee freak. morning btw
[10:42] <frobware> dooferlad, heh. fancy a quick HO, re dns-nameservers. :)
[10:42] <dooferlad> morning TheMue!
[10:42] <dooferlad> frobware: sure
[11:28] <jam> anastasiamac: wallyworld: did we end up leaving deep debugging code in? I'm seeing a lot of "STORAGE FRONT-END" and "STORAGE BACK-END" code triggering.
[11:28] <jam> but the content doesn't seem useful
[11:28] <jam> as it is debugging a bunch of pointer objects
[11:28] <wallyworld> jam: not on purpose
[11:29] <anastasiamac> jam: looks like it
[11:29] <jam> facadeCaller: base.facadeCaller{facadeName:"Block", bestVersion: 1, caller: *pointer, closer: *pointer)
[11:29] <wallyworld> must have slipped through review
[11:29] <jam> wallyworld: anastasiamac: k. prob should be fixed for at least alpha2, not sure if we've missed alpha1
[11:29] <wallyworld> the hope is we got a bless this morning
[11:29] <wallyworld> will make alpha2 for sure
[11:29] <jam> I did see a bless
[12:47] <frobware> cherylj, beisner: am in the process of writing a conclusion to #1534795. the TL;DR is I don't believe what we've done is broken.
[12:47] <mup> Bug #1534795: unit loses network connectivity during bootstrap: juju 1.25.2 + maas 1.9 <maas-provider> <uosci> <juju-core:Fix Committed by frobware> <juju-core 1.25:Fix Committed by frobware> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534795>
[12:54] <cherylj> frobware: awesome, thank you!
[13:01] <alexisb> fwereade, jam, voidspace meeting
[13:03] <voidspace> alexisb: omw
[13:39] <TheMue> perrito666: answered your question about that drink called Ayran
[13:40] <perrito666> TheMue: you drank that?
[13:42] <TheMue> perrito666: yes, very refreshing. yogurt and milk with a little bit salt and then beat until frothy
[13:42] <perrito666> I should try
[13:42] <TheMue> perrito666: it's a national drink in Turkey
[13:42] <TheMue> perrito666: they had no beer there, so I asked for something authentic
[13:49] <voidspace> dooferlad: tell me more about this ethernet thing you talk of...
[13:49] <dooferlad> voidspace: It is like WiFi,  but with wires.
[13:49] <voidspace> dooferlad: my wifi never works either... :-)
[13:50] <dooferlad> voidspace: :-)
[13:50] <voidspace> not entirely true...
[13:50]  * voidspace lurches to lunch
[14:46] <mup> Bug #1533750 changed: 2.0-alpha1 stabilization <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533750>
[14:49] <mup> Bug #1533750 opened: 2.0-alpha1 stabilization <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533750>
[14:52] <mup> Bug #1533750 changed: 2.0-alpha1 stabilization <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533750>
[14:55] <mup> Bug #1533750 opened: 2.0-alpha1 stabilization <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533750>
[14:58] <mup> Bug #1533750 changed: 2.0-alpha1 stabilization <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533750>
[14:59] <cherylj> Can I  get a quick review?  http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3578/
[15:12] <frobware> cherylj, beisner: my observations are in https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1534795/comments/31
[15:12] <mup> Bug #1534795: unit loses network connectivity during bootstrap: juju 1.25.2 + maas 1.9 <maas-provider> <uosci> <juju-core:Fix Committed by frobware> <juju-core 1.25:Fix Committed by frobware> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534795>
[15:25] <mup> Bug #1536215 opened: 1.25.0: deployment times out - system is deployed successfully by maas 1.9 but juju state never transitions from pending <oil> <juju-core:New> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536215>
[15:25] <mup> Bug #1536230 opened: backups create help text is wrong about downloading <docs> <papercut> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536230>
[15:58] <frobware> beisner, ping
[16:01] <mup> Bug # changed: 1497312, 1517611, 1525280, 1527349, 1533469, 1533751, 1533792, 1533849, 1536215
[16:03] <lazypower> abentley sinzui  - have we tested a 1.20 => 1.25 upgrade?
[16:04] <sinzui> lazypower: yes it does work.
[16:04] <lazypower> awesome, i recall 1.22 had some problem child days, so this is great news
[16:05] <abentley> lazypower: Yes, we test an upgrade from 1.20 for everything: http://reports.vapour.ws/releases/3522/job/aws-upgrade-20-trusty-amd64/attempt/508
[16:05] <lazypower> thanks for the confirmation sinzui
[16:06] <lazypower> awesome, thanks abentley sinzui  - you just calmed a dusty old charmers fears :D
[16:09] <abentley> lazypower: Though the script exits early if the target is 2.0+ because upgrades from 1.20 -> 2.0 are not supported-- you have to go through 1.25
[16:09] <lazypower> abentley makes total sense. this is for a user upgrading from 1.20 => 1.25
[16:26] <beisner> frobware, pong.  in a mtg atm.
[16:26] <frobware> beisner, ack. ping me when you have some time; would like to discuss your concerns.
[16:37] <mup> Bug # changed: 1390585, 1486553, 1527681, 1528217, 1531064, 1534353, 1534795
[16:37] <mup> Bug #1536215 opened: 1.25.0: deployment times out - system is deployed successfully by maas 1.9 but juju state never transitions from pending <oil> <juju-core:New> <MAAS:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536215>
[16:42] <beisner> frobware, so i think the lowest common denominator in the topic is this:  bug 1536262   ...and that is why we see what we see in 1.25.3.  thoughts?
[16:42] <mup> Bug #1536262: dns-* e/n/i are misplaced <uosci> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536262>
[16:55] <beisner> hi cherylj, frobware, if we can get 1.25.3 into ppa:juju/proposed, that will unblock our openstack CI metal lab.  is that something that is planned in the next day or so?
[16:57] <cherylj> beisner: yes, we're aiming for today.
[16:57] <cherylj> beisner: we just wanted all the dust to settle on the questions around DNS and MAAS
[16:57] <beisner> cherylj, frobware - sweet.  yeah so there is still dust but given a sudden realization that indentation in the e/n/i file is meaningless, it's old dust.
[17:48] <ericsnow> natefinch: is this what you meant? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/3579/
[18:08] <natefinch> ericsnow: yep :)
[18:13] <ericsnow> natefinch: thanks for pointing that out :)
[18:14] <natefinch> ericsnow: no problem.  I've done the exact same thing a half a dozen times... write a whole bunch of code and then realize half of it is covered in the stdlib.
[18:55] <mup> Bug #1536324 opened: juju backups restore times out trying to connect to API server <backup-restore> <ci> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536324>
[19:29] <mup> Bug #1536324 changed: juju backups restore times out trying to connect to API server <backup-restore> <ci> <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536324>
[19:29] <mup> Bug # opened: 1536333, 1536336, 1536337, 1536340
[19:59] <mup> Bug #1536345 opened: backups create and backups restore defaults clash <backup-restore> <ci> <papercut> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536345>
[21:01] <thumper> was the LXD provider available in 1.25 behind a feature flag?
[21:02] <thumper> or was it just 1.26/2.0 ?
[21:02] <thumper> katco: ^^?
[21:02] <katco> thumper: just 1.26/2.0
[21:02] <thumper> ta
[21:02] <katco> thumper: np. specifically 1.26-alpha2
[21:02] <thumper> k,
[21:16] <menn0_> thumper: I very much doubt that machine-dep-engine is going to merge this week
[21:17] <menn0> thumper: there are unblessed changes in master which conflict
[21:18] <menn0> thumper: so I have to wait for them to get blessed and then merge and fix the conflicts and then get machine-dep-engine blessed
[21:18] <menn0> thumper: there aren't enough days left in the week for that
[21:18] <thumper> ugh
[21:21] <menn0> thumper: I might merge machine-dep-engine right up to latest master in the hope that it'll get blessed. It might save someone less familiar with the changes in the feature branch from having to deal with the conflicts. They look non-trivial.
[21:21] <menn0> (next week)
[21:25]  * thumper needs moar coffee
[21:29] <perrito666> OT is any of you in the go slack channel, I filled the form to get the invite but didnt :(
[21:32] <natefinch> perrito666: I can ping the maintainers about it
[21:39] <cherylj> hey davecheney, are you still looking for some bugs to take?
[21:39] <natefinch> perrito666: https://gophersinvite.herokuapp.com/
[21:44]  * thumper stops procrastinating and dives into the code
[21:56] <perrito666> natefinch: oh, that changed
[21:57] <natefinch> perrito666: evidently
[22:08] <perrito666> natefinch-afk: tx btw, I am in
[22:11] <mup> Bug #1536378 opened: resolver loop error in maas-1_8-OS-deployer test <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-core machine-dep-engine:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536378>
[22:14] <mup> Bug #1536378 changed: resolver loop error in maas-1_8-OS-deployer test <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-core machine-dep-engine:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536378>
[22:23] <mup> Bug #1536378 opened: resolver loop error in maas-1_8-OS-deployer test <juju-core:Incomplete> <juju-core machine-dep-engine:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536378>
[22:28] <thumper> WTF!!!!
[22:28] <thumper> I thought that we stopped panicing on unknown series?
[22:29] <thumper> I'm using version.MustParseBinary with "3.4.5-zesty-amd64"
[22:29] <thumper> and it panics!
[22:30] <perrito666> mm, I thought it too
[22:37] <thumper> that's pretty disappointing
[22:42] <davecheney> thumper: i can work on that if you like
[22:42] <davecheney> but if you use the Must form, it will panic
[22:42] <davecheney> that's why the Must form exists
[22:42] <davecheney> if you don't want a panic, don't call mustParseBinary
[22:43] <thumper> I didn't expext ParseBinary to return an error on unknown series
[22:43] <thumper> that's fine, just gone with "trusty"
[22:43] <davecheney> thumper: what should it do if the series is unknown ?
[22:43] <thumper> davecheney: wrt work, cherylj had a particular bug I think
[22:43] <thumper> davecheney: not sure...
[22:44] <davecheney> it would beunwise to return something like "2.0.5-unknown-unknown"
[22:44] <thumper> I thought it would have just created a binary with a series it didn't know about
[22:44] <thumper> like "zesty"
[22:44] <davecheney> 'cos lots of caller expect that any version value is accurate
[22:44] <thumper> and not find tools etc
[22:44] <davecheney> hmm, that makes senes
[22:44] <davecheney> that would fit with the notion of Parse
[22:44] <thumper> however that isn't important just now
[22:44] <thumper> I'm working around it
[22:44] <davecheney> it just parses the form provided
[22:45] <davecheney> if you want something else, ParseValidSeries ?
[22:45] <davecheney> ^ guess
[22:55] <natefinch-afk> davecheney, thumper, katco: I notice I'm invited to this core leads call in 5 minutes.... is that on purpose?
[22:55] <thumper> natefinch-afk: did you go to the earlier one today?
[22:55] <perrito666> same question
[22:56] <katco> natefinch-afk: it's for if you wish to ask questions about the sprint
[22:56] <natefinch-afk> katco: oh
[22:56] <thumper> alexis combined normal weekly team call with team lead call
[22:56] <thumper> for debrief
[22:57] <davecheney> natefinch-afk: thanks for the reminder
[23:03] <katco> natefinch-afk: coming?
[23:04] <natefinch-afk> katco: I can come for a bit


[00:35] <JasonA> Yo people!
[00:35] <JasonA> Anyone here?
[00:36] <JasonA> Anyones here?
[00:36] <JasonA> Got a ps3 question >_>
[01:09] <soreau> Hello
[01:10] <soreau> I am having a problem with setting keybindings for xfwm4. When I go to the keyboard settings and try to add a new command, I type in the command, type a key binding but the new binding does not show up in the list there. Isn't it supposed to? Is this a known bug?
[01:12] <eein> can someone help me with xfce keybindings particulary xfrun4 <alt>F2 is not working
F4 still works to close programs but not xfrun4
[01:14] <soreau> eein: What is the output of 'ps ax|grep xfwm4'?
[01:16] <eein>  4937 ?        Ss     0:00 /bin/sh -c xfwm4 --replace  4938 ?        S      0:02 xfwm4 --replace
[01:16] <eein> hmm that doesnt seem right
[01:16] <soreau> Sure it does
[01:20] <soreau> eein: Well if it makes you feel any better, it's broken here too
[01:21] <soreau> and now I can't even get Keyboard prefs to open via xfce settings
[01:22] <soreau> but I see why and it's not xfce's fault
[01:22] <eein> how is that
[01:23] <soreau> anyway, I think xfce keybindings are broken
[04:13] <webbb82> can i use compz in xfce
[04:23] <durt> webbb82, yes you can.
[04:25] <arthurjohnson> webbb82: The easiest way:  Applications - Settings - Session and Startup - Application Autostart. Add the command "compiz --replace"
[04:25] <arthurjohnson> webbb82: There is another way (some would argue better way) but I've always just done the --replace method.
[05:25] <raffles>  hola ahorita estoy usando xubuntu pero al momento de ver un video se traba o el reproductor se cierra (vlc totem xfmedia) pero segun yo solo me pasa con aquellos en donde las escenas transcurren muy rapido o el video va rapido, no son todos los videos solo algunos. alguien me puede ayudar aqui repito que ahorita estoy usando xubuntu
[05:25] <raffles> los videos de youtube por ejemplo se ven bien y la musica tambien
[05:25] <_Techie_> !es raffles
[05:25] <_Techie_> !es
[05:25] <_Techie_> ??
[05:26] <raffles> excume thank you
[05:33] <coastertal> need some help with sound not working
[12:54] <St0n3-C0l> knome?
[13:06] <lucijan> hi
[13:06] <lucijan> i downloaded the 8.04 image and now that i try to install it booting from cd fails with the message could not find kernal image: linux
[13:06] <lucijan> is there a way to see the list of available images?
[13:07] <likemindead> Did you check the disc for errors/defects?
[13:07] <lucijan> likemindead: you mean after burning checksum verification or something as like?
[13:08] <likemindead> Yes. When you boot a Ubuntu Live CD, there is a "Check Disc For Defects" (or something similar) option. Run that. It only takes a couple of minutes.
[13:08] <lucijan> likemindead: i can
[13:09] <lucijan> 't see a menu just a prompt "boot:"
[13:09] <likemindead> That doesn't sound good.
[13:10] <lucijan> nope
[13:10] <lucijan> must say it's old machines
[13:10] <likemindead> Processor? RAM?
[13:10] <lucijan> and i bought the cd-r on a bazar in a small village in ukraine
[13:11] <lucijan> pentium III 866 mhz with 512 mb
[13:11] <Sysi> that should be ok
[13:12] <likemindead> Yep. I'm on a similar machine right now!
[13:12] <likemindead> Are you trying Ubuntu or Xubuntu, lucijan?
[13:13] <lucijan> xubuntu
[13:13] <likemindead> Is the image you have the desktop Live Cd or the alternative Live CD?
[13:14] <lucijan> likemindead: alternate
[13:14] <lucijan> no worlds about live tough
[13:14] <lucijan> tested the same cd on a different machine same problem
[13:15] <likemindead> Yeah, that's an install only image. No Live Desktop environment.
[13:15] <lucijan> i burned the iso with mac's disk utillities but that should be good normally
[13:15] <lucijan> likemindead: installation is what i have in mind
[13:16] <lucijan> isolinux is not lilo, is it?
[13:16] <likemindead> Ah.
[13:16] <lucijan> you think it's worth a try downloading 9.04 and testing again?
[13:17] <lucijan> it's just a bad internet connection so 500mb take about 4 hours to download
[13:17] <likemindead> I'd go for 9.10 at this point.
[13:18] <lucijan> is that stable? i will set up an internet cafe here in a culture club and there is no one really good with computers so i think it's good to have something stable, because i will leave in maybe 3 weeks or a month
[13:19] <lucijan> also i wonder if it is possible to create one setup (i will need some scripts etc.) and have that setup on some master disk
[13:19] <lucijan> likemindead: should i go for alternate or desktop?
[13:20] <likemindead> I always go with Desktop.
[13:20] <likemindead> That way you can test the Live CD before you install.
[13:20] <likemindead> And yes, 9.10 is quite stable. It is RC now and final release in three days.
[13:46] <pjammer> greetings and salivations
[13:46] <likemindead> !hi | pjammer
[13:47] <pjammer> just downloaded xubuntu to hopefully ROCK my old compaq circa 2000
[13:47] <pjammer> 186mb of ram... should be fun!
[13:48] <likemindead> I'd get on eBay and get some cheap RAM, as much as that old machine can handle. Makes a world of difference.
[13:48] <likemindead> I'm on a PIII laptop circa 2002, but I upped the RAM from 128MB to 1GB. :-) It flies!
[13:57] <pjammer> damn u left
[13:57] <pjammer> if a machine says it can only handle 256.. is that really it? without mod-ing it?
[13:58] <pjammer> by that i mean is it only a suggested limit, or that's all that little guy can handle.
[14:33] <MoonTiger> is this where i can ask about karmic rc?
[14:35] <Sysi> about ubuntu karmic or xubuntu karmic?
[14:35] <MoonTiger> xubuntu :)
[14:36] <Sysi> hmm, there is #ubuntu+1 but you can try :)
[14:37] <MoonTiger> ok ... i don't want to ask in the wrong place and all but its a sound issue ... always starts muted
[14:38] <Sysi> same problem has existed also in jaunty
[14:38] <MoonTiger> didnt for me
[14:39] <MoonTiger> *sigh*
[14:40] <MoonTiger> is there a solution?
[14:40] <Sysi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-utils/+bug/450652
[14:41] <MoonTiger> awesome ... so basically they are saying if pulse audio doesn't start quit the init script ... genius
[14:41] <MoonTiger> :)
[14:42] <Sysi> i dunno, works for me
[14:42] <MoonTiger> did you apply the patch?
[14:42] <Sysi> or i'm not sure, i don't reboot often
[14:42] <MoonTiger> hehe
[14:43] <MoonTiger> i have to reboot in windoze for coding stuff so i reboot often
[18:03] <ron_o> this is weird. I'm using Opera and I know my mouse was on a legitimate website without any ads, that I know of, and then all of a sudden a new page popped up with one of those "Google, work from home" scams.
[18:03] <ron_o> the question is how?
[18:05] <pjammer> js? timers?
[18:06] <ron_o> javascript ? and what's a timer?
[18:09] <Pres-Gas> Hey, all.  I cannot edit files in the RC of Xubu.  I have a file in my home and can "less" it to a terminal, but when I issue "vi" on the file, it comes up as a new file
[18:09] <Pres-Gas> I have an encrypted home directory
[18:13] <pjammer> ron_o: i meant maybe they programmed the javascript to open after 10 seconds or something
[18:13] <pjammer> dunno. i try to avoid dodgy sites
[18:13] <pjammer> :-)
[18:14] <ron_o> that's just it. I was here: http://www.bartleby.com/73/1593.html
[18:15] <ron_o> not dodgy at all.
[18:15] <ron_o> and I had other video open, now closed, but it was sitting there idling for some time.
[18:16] <ron_o> thanks. I'll figure it out. I was way too used to browser hijackers in windows.  Some people!
[18:21] <Brian_> i need a litle help  i was messing with the desktop effects and somehow there are no window borders as in to close or move a window  how do i get it back.  in gnome i could do compiz --replace  but what do i do in xfce
[18:25] <TheSheep> Brian_: alt+f2 and then type 'xfwm4'
[18:25] <Brian_> ya i got it thanks
[18:27] <likemindead> I always had better luck with Emerald (rather than Compiz) for a window manager, Brian_.
[18:28] <Brian_> can you use emerald in xfce?
[18:28] <Sysi> of course
[18:28] <Sysi> i didn't manage to get compiz work with xfwm
[18:29] <Sysi> at the end i decided that xfce composion was better :P
[18:29] <Brian_> so how do i get and use emerald in xf
[18:30] <Sysi> install it
[18:30] <Sysi> and set to compiz-settings
[18:30] <likemindead> !emerald
[18:31] <likemindead> Hmm... :-\
[18:31] <Brian_> whats the deal with http://goodies.xfce.org/start#xfce-goodies-project   is it a repo i can add
[18:39] <pjammer> i saw this cat on youtube run compiz on a similar old laptop... i'm stoked if it will work !
[18:58] <zo> hi
[19:00] <Penguino> Hi
[19:01] <Brian_> what terminal does xfce use
[19:03] <zo> I'm a xubuntu user and I need help. My cd player does not work, i think that xubuntu did not identify it. Is there a command in order to resolve this problem?
[19:04] <zo> (beginning of the previous message) : I'm a xubuntu user and I need help. My cd player does not work (...)
[19:09] <pjammer> lspci doesn't have it. i think that is the command.
[19:11] <Penguino> Brian_: xfce4-terminal
[19:15] <craigbass1976> What's the best GUI way to browse windows shares in xubuntu?
[19:16] <Penguino> I use Nautilus
[19:16] <Penguino> I'd like to use Nautilus as default file manager but I don't know how :(
[19:16] <Penguino> Thunar is pretty fast but I need some Nautilus features
[19:17] <craigbass1976> Penguino, Isn't installing nautilus going to bring a bunch of GNOME stuff too?
[19:18] <Penguino> craigbass1976: Yup
[19:19] <Penguino> But it's the only way I know for doing that
[19:19] <craigbass1976> Penguino, mmm, that's what I wanted to avoid
[19:19] <Penguino> Oh
[19:20] <Penguino> I try to keep a free-qt desktop but I can't
[19:20] <Penguino> Damn VirtualBox lol
[19:20] <kaeser> HOw do I disable screen lock when lid is close or when inactive?
[19:21] <craigbass1976> kaeser, settings -> screensaver
[19:21] <craigbass1976> ?
[19:22] <kaeser> Apparently there is something else that is messing with it.
[19:22] <kaeser> Cous I did disable those things over there.
[19:22] <Penguino> I'll wait for final Karmic
[19:22] <Penguino> Having a clean install is the answer for everything :P
[19:33] <pjammer> xubuntu is loading up but the screen is dark..... hmm.
[19:39] <MichielL> Hi all, since Abiword is the default wordprocessor for Xubuntu I thought I'd notify you that a new major release is out - version 2.8.0
[19:39] <MichielL> In case anybody wants to package it, the URI is http://abisource.com/downloads/abiword/2.8.0/source/
[19:39] <charlie-tca> Thank you. It will probably make it into the next release.
[19:40] <charlie-tca> 9.10 will be released on Thursday, which is a little late to put that in.
[19:41] <MichielL> I understand. Well, thought you should have it anyway ASAP. It'll be out officially soon.
[19:43] <Penguino> I uninstalled Abiword and installed OpenOffice :D
[19:43] <charlie-tca> Thanks. It may be a candidate for SRU
[19:46] <MichielL> I think indeed SDU would be in order - it is a major release and especially ODF interoperability has been improved a lot. Also, it has some nifty real time collaboration stuff which is really impressive.
[19:47] <charlie-tca> I can try to do that after the sync next month. They just turn them down if we do it now
[19:49] <MichielL> Great. I'm sure the users will be very happy about their - the office suite is so central to the way people think, and especially in interoperability the last 18 months have made a huge difference.
[19:50] <MichielL> Well, thanks for the help. Look forward to seeing it apt-gotten on my machine.
[19:55] <charlie-tca> You are welcome. Thanks for bringing it up
[21:33] <RhysTM> Hi all, newbie question... What differences are there between ubuntu and xubuntu apart from the window manager?
[21:33] <Sysi> some programs
[21:34] <TheSheep> the programs that are installed by default
[21:34] <RhysTM> i have been using ubuntu for a few years so apart from programs there is no difference in functionality
[21:34] <RhysTM> and i take it these can be retrospectively installed from the repo
[21:36] <TheSheep> there is difference in that xubuntu doesn't have all the gui stuff that ubuntu does, but yes, you can install anything from ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, etc.
[21:36] <Sysi> it's mostly what you like the most
[21:37] <Sysi> there are other things that window manager actually
[21:37] <RhysTM> functionality over aesthetics for me
[21:37] <Sysi> whole UI is bit different
[21:37] <Sysi> it's about what you like mostly
[21:38] <Sysi> xubuntu runs with less ram but not big difference
[21:39] <RhysTM> OK thanks, i guess i'll install it tomorrow and see how it is.
[21:39] <Sysi> and you van insall all UI:s
[21:39] <TheSheep> I always end up with something in between ubuntu. xubuntu and completely custom
[21:39] <Sysi> i have them
[21:40] <Sysi> i get xubuntu, try others and use xubuntu
[21:40] <RhysTM> I am using mint at the moment on a dodgy laptop that locks up periodically
[21:46] <Guest2906> hello, can anyone recommend a virtual machine for installing linux on a windows XP pc? i already tried VMware player but i had troubles connecting to the interwebz.
[21:48] <RhysTM> vmware workstation?
[21:49] <Guest2906> hmm i think that since its from the same company the networking thingies will be handled the same way :-|
[21:49] <Guest2906> i guess i try virtualbox
[21:49] <charlie-tca> VirtualBox from Sun
[21:50] <Guest2906> Yes, thanks :-]
[23:23] <pjammer>  a #protip... when installing xubuntu on a POS laptop, make sure you get the alternate install.
[23:58] <pjammer> 58% oooo!
[23:58] <pjammer> beer time
[23:59] <Penguino> 58% for what?


[01:57] <exarkun> How do I stop getting a ton of bug spam from Launchpad?
[01:58] <exarkun> I don't need to hear about five status changes a day in a bug for each of the six Ubuntu releases that it affects, honest.
[02:07] <mwhudson> exarkun: are these bugs you are directly subscribed to?
[02:08] <EvilResistance> exarkun:  if they're bugs you're directly subscribed to, modify your bug subscriptions.  if they're bugs you receive updates on because a team you're part of is subscribed, just mute your bug mail.
[02:51] <dobey> man procmail
[10:32] <lamalex> Is there a URL for seeing approved merges?
[10:32] <lamalex> I know, https://code.launchpad.net/unity/+activereviews, but if I just want to see approved (ie for rss or something) can I do that?
[10:35] <tumbleweed> lamalex: +merges
[10:40] <lamalex> oh nice
[10:40] <lamalex> thanks!
[11:13] <shodanium> hello, i can't reset my password (https://launchpad.net/~shodan), and none of the support links are any use? tried many times in the past days, checked Spam folder (mail is on Gmail), checked out Help and Answers, still totally stuck. the most amazing part is that other email notifications *do* get through! but the password reset link does not.
[11:14] <shodanium> "can't reset" == "5+ tries over past 2 or 3 days, not a single email from launchpad"
[11:15] <StevenK> shodanium: Please ask in #canonical-isd
[11:16] <shodanium> StevenK, thanks for the pointer!
[11:58] <mpt> Are there any statistics on how many changes to Ubuntu bug reports Launchpad deals with per day?
[11:59] <deryck> mpt, hmmm, I'm not sure.  I doubt it.  I can look at lpstats and see.
[12:01] <mpt> deryck, I see there's a graph of total rows in bugactivity. I guess what I'd be looking for is change in the total per day
[12:02] <deryck> mpt, right, the change in total and limited to just ubuntu bugactivity.
[12:02] <mpt> yeah
[12:02] <mpt> What's the bugnotification table for?
[12:03] <deryck> Yeah, and we just don't have anything like that.
[12:03] <deryck> mpt, holding table for the notifications we send.  I don't think it's a one for one with activity.
[12:03] <deryck> mpt, headed to lunch, back after, sorry
[12:53] <BigWhale> what's up with the build farm? It'll take nine more hours for my packages to build? :'(
[12:56] <popey> BigWhale: busy busy boxes
[13:01] <BigWhale> popey, that's because everyone is drinking^Wjamming in Budapest and nobody is running the boxes! ;)
[13:23] <exarkun> They're bugs in Ubuntu.  I don't think I'm an Ubuntu team member.
[13:25] <lifeless> exarkun: I missed the context; whats up?
[13:28] <exarkun> lifeless: Too much email from Launchpad, eg for changes to bugs like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/twisted/+bug/571648
[13:28] <exarkun> Fixed in Twisted, still jumping around from state to state in Ubuntu
[13:29] <exarkun> Not really relevant to me anymore, but I still got like six emails about it yesterday
[13:30] <exarkun> Sorry, seven emails. ;)
[13:31] <iceroot> exarkun: you can unsuscribe from the bug
[13:31] <exarkun> iceroot: I am not directly subscribed to the bug.
[13:31] <tumbleweed> you should still be able to mute mail from it
[13:32] <exarkun> The help for the mute button suggests otherwise.
[13:32] <iceroot> exarkun: in all mails there is a link about "configuring notifications"
[13:33] <exarkun> Maybe I misunderstand it though?
[13:33] <lifeless> exarkun: ugh, yes that is a nuisance.
[13:33] <lifeless> and yes, you should be able to mute the bug - it hsould be an icon on the right hand side
[13:44] <exarkun> okay, thanks.  for some reason the mute description confused me.
[20:04] <zooko> Dear people of #launchpad: there is a thing that I like about launchpad...
[20:04] <zooko> in fact, when a random guy in a coffeeshop asked me yesterday what my launchpad t-shirt was about
[20:04] <zooko> this is the thing I explained to him.
[20:04] <zooko> But I'm not sure that it is really an intended use case, and I'm wondering if I should stop trying to use laucnhpad for this.
[20:05] <zooko> The thing is: there's a bug that affects many different open source projects.
[20:05] <zooko> If I report it to one of them, they'll reject it saying it is the fault of the other one.
[20:05] <zooko> So what I like to do is open bug reports with all of them, and then tie the reports together on a launchpad ticket, and give everyone a link to the launchpad ticket.
[20:05] <zooko> That's worked quite successfully a few times in the past.
[20:06] <zooko> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/binutils/+bug/461303
[20:06] <zooko> and e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foolscap/+bug/782414
[20:07] <zooko> So, here I am wanting to do that again, about a bug which interacts with: gcc, Fedora, Crypto++, pycryptopp, and Tahoe-LAFS.
[20:07] <zooko> But, I can't figure out how to create a ticket on launchpad so that I can link the five different tickets on those five projects's trackers.
[20:07] <zooko> Because, none of those five uses launchpad as its bug tracker.
[20:07] <zooko> If any one project does, then I can link the other four.
[20:07] <zooko> IIUC.
[20:14] <lifeless> zooko: oooh thats a shiny use case.
[20:14] <lifeless> zooko: you basically need to be able to add a watch directly to a reference-only project in LP
[20:14] <lifeless> zooko: we totally want such bugs in the LP db
[20:16] <zooko> lifeless: I'm glad you like it!
[20:16] <zooko> That's encouraging.
[20:17] <zooko> I always thought lp was intended for this back when it was a gleam in your eye.
[20:17] <lifeless> as a workaround, if any of the projects are in Ubuntu, you could start with a bug on Ubuntu itself.
[20:17] <zooko> If we can unstick this a little, or at least see how to in the future, I'll edit the Google+ post that I just made containing roughly the same text as above.
[20:17] <zooko> Okay, I'll... yeah, I'll do Ubuntu's package of Crypto++.
[20:17]  * zooko tries.
[20:18] <zooko> No offense, but I often find lp UI confusing.
[20:18] <dobey> it often is confusing :-/
[20:18] <zooko> I generally muddle through, but I always think to myself "if only we could streamline this then there would be more better data flowing in from more users"...
[20:18] <zooko> I think there are some concepts in lp which are not native to my way of thinking and are also not called out very explicitly in the UI.
[20:19] <lifeless> zooko: if you are interested in helping streamline it, I'd be delighted to help you get accustomed to LP's code base
[20:19] <zooko> Such as.. what was it I kept getting tripped up by the other day..
[20:19] <zooko> There was some distinction between a team and a project that I kept mis-navigating.
[20:19] <zooko> lifeless: I'm not unwilling to write patches, but I think the need here is for a designer, which isn't my expertise, and for a stronger eye+hand than another chef thrusting his spoon in. :-)
[20:20] <zooko> Now, complaints I'm good at.
[20:20] <zooko> And I think they *might* help, maybe.
[20:20] <zooko> Anyway, the thing I'm noticing right now is that I'm never entirely sure whether I'm looking at Ubuntu's package of $X or at $X's source or at upstream-$X.
[20:20] <zooko> Where today X=gcc
[20:20] <zooko> Sorry, I mean cryptopp.
[20:21] <lifeless> zooko: someone skilled with a (constructively) critical eye would certainly be a positive contributor - we have a designer (huwshimi), product strategist (mrevell) and I can offer technical direction quite easily :)
[20:21] <lifeless> zooko: LP's problem is that it got fat somewhere along the way; a focus I have is rending that down and getting it lean again (internally)
[20:22] <zooko> lifeless: well, I'm willing to (a) shut up about my problems, (b) keep mentioning them in passing on this channel while doing other work, (c) spend, oh, I dunno, an hour writing notes?, (d) ?
[20:22] <lifeless> zooko: I do agree that a random walk isn't necessarily the best idea :)
[20:22] <zooko> (c) only if you really think it would help.
[20:22] <zooko> lifeless: yes, I approve of your focus!
[20:22] <zooko> lifeless: there's this thing - -I wonder if you've noticed.
[20:23] <lifeless> zooko: b is good, c encoded as 'file clear symptom based bug reports', d - I will get you writing patches someday
[20:23] <zooko> Of all sites that I visit in FF on Linux, LP alone takes, like 1 or 2 *seconds* to render after I switch to a tab that has already loaded it.
[20:23] <zooko> It's kind of mysterious.
[20:23] <lifeless> that is interesting
[20:23] <zooko> Yeah. Oh, I'll do a quick experiment...
[20:23] <lifeless> do you have an nvidia card ?
[20:24] <zooko> Yes.
[20:24] <zooko> But... are you serious?
[20:24] <zooko> Okay, the experiment may involve turning off my network temporarily...
[20:24] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/605567
[20:25] <lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/744808
[20:26] <zooko> lifeless: just from the titles that sounds plausible.
[20:26] <zooko> Okay, so back to what I was doing.
[20:26] <lifeless> zooko: its probably very shallow to fix
[20:27] <lifeless> zooko: and has nothing to do with what direction to pull in :)
[20:28] <zooko> I don't think I'll have a go at that one.
[20:28] <lifeless> :P
[20:28] <lifeless> I should make time for it
[20:28] <lifeless> butfirsttriage
[20:29] <zooko> Heh heh.
[20:32] <zooko> Oh, one more thing -- two tickets linked to from here are stuck: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/binutils/+bug/461303
[20:32] <zooko> Because auto-update isn't working for them and I don't have perms to manually fix them.
[20:32] <zooko> So I posted asking someone else to do so or to authorize me.
[20:34] <lifeless> posted where?
[20:34] <lifeless> ah, in the bug
[20:35] <lifeless> bug 605783
[20:36] <lifeless> and bug 598575
[20:38] <zooko> FYI: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcrypto++/+bug/915018
[20:39] <zooko> I gave you credit for the idea of abusing the the tracker of bugs in Ubuntu's packages.
[20:40] <zooko> Whoops I broke it.
[20:41] <zooko> I made a link from that to Crypto++, deleted it ("marked it as no longer affecting Crypto++"), then clicked on "Also affects project", then got a 404 page.
[20:41] <zooko> Doing "Also affects project" again just now it worked.
[20:41] <zooko> So I guess there was a race condition there.
[20:42] <lifeless> your primary context had changed
[20:42] <lifeless> the delete happens via ajax and didn't update the primary context
[20:42] <lifeless> but the form is done under that context
[20:46] <zooko> Ah.
[20:46] <zooko> BTW, I just had another momentary one of those "launchpad concept moments".
[20:46] <zooko> I went to link to the Fedora ticket, and clicked on "also affects project".
[20:47] <zooko> After searching through 3 pages of projects with "Fedora" in their name I remembered that launchpad has a concept of "distributions" which are distinct from projects.
[20:47] <lifeless> yea
[20:48] <lifeless> there is a bug, can't trivially find it
[20:49] <lifeless> bug 1334
[20:49] <zooko> I'll subscribe to that one and the nvidia rendering one...
[20:50] <zooko> At least, I clicked "this affects me". Not sure if that subscribes me.
[20:50] <lifeless> it does not
[20:50] <lifeless> if you want mail, click on subscribe on the right hand side
[20:51] <lifeless> we find its better not to conflate anything with subscribing, cause folk often do not want mail sent to them
[20:53] <zooko> I wonder if there could be a sufficiently unobtrusive way to offer it. Maybe I could click on the "change if this affects me" button and get options: "No, it doesn't affect me.", "Yes, this affects me." and "Yes, this affects me and subscribe to this bug.".
[20:55] <zooko> I'd like to show you my post about this on Google+, but unfortunately I can't make it publicly visible without sending it to the notice of all of my subscribers.
[20:55] <zooko> Thanks for your help! Back in  abit.
[20:55] <zooko> Oh, here: Update: Robert Collins suggested I create the ticket on launchpad by reporting a bug against Ubuntu's packaging of the software, even though technically speaking the version that Ubuntu has packaged doesn't have this problem. Here's the result:
[20:55] <zooko>
[20:55] <zooko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/pycryptopp/+bug/915018
[20:55] <zooko>
[20:55] <zooko> However, since other people are not likely to stumble upon this solution, I'm still not entirely sure what I should tell the next person who asks me about my launchpad t-shirt.
[21:03] <lifeless> well, you should file a bug about this on LP itself
[21:22] <rektide> how do i download the source for a project? https://launchpad.net/lightdm
[21:23] <rektide> ah, there's a "code" link at the top fo the page.
[22:08] <zooko> Heh, trying to report a bug on LP itself, got a timeout error.
[22:08] <zooko> (Error ID: OOPS-7c221270569053ae5b44945b9e906a19)
[22:09] <zooko> And another small navigation issue: I'm having trouble finding how to report a bug on LP itself. :-}
[22:10] <zooko> There, found it.
[22:15] <zooko> lifeless: hope this helps: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/915067
[23:14] <peterbrett> Hey guys
[23:14] <peterbrett> My translations have been awaiting import for several days... is there a known backlog length at the moment? :-)


[03:38] <superm1> bryce, ping.  i've been suddenly seeing a few bugs getting reported with mythfrontend shooting out BadMatch and RenderBadPicture on AMD & NV open source drivers.  Intel & closed drivers appear to be fine.  i was hoping you might have some pointers to how to really debug these?  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/341898/comments/4
[04:21] <bryce> superm1: that's a client/server protocol communication error, that indicates a bad parameter was passed (Picture), so you could use xtrace (or xscope or xmond) to analyze the traffic between client and server
[04:21] <bryce> the error could either be that the API has changed (unlikely), or that something in those drivers or the xserver is generating invalid (NULL?) values for that parameter for some reason
[04:21] <superm1> bryce, has there been any major changes in the protocols that a QT application such as myth should be changing to reflect?
[04:22] <superm1> since posting that ping someone reported that it failed in VirtualBox too, so i'm guessing vesa is also affected
[04:22] <superm1> i'll see about using some of those tools to look at the traffic between the client and server then, thanks
[04:22] <bryce> well, -nv has not changed significantly, and -vesa certainly hasn't
[04:23] <bryce> so if it is being seen as a regression with those two drivers, I'd tend to suspect xserver or one of its libs instead
[04:23] <superm1> yeah i had thought that too, perhaps the closed drivers were diverting one of the libs that changed or something so they weren't affected, but Intel working confused me;
[06:45] <superm1> yeah it's definitely outside of mythtv code.  it's coming in calls for QT to show() it's widgets.  i'd suspect this is going to crop up in other apps that use QT3 too then?
[07:31] <RAOF> tjaalton: Oh.  The reason libdrm-dev only depends on libdrm-nouveau1 on x86 is a thinko; that qualifier should be dropped.  Urgh.
[08:02] <dholbach> hiya
[08:03] <dholbach> jcristau: I was just chatting with geser about the x11proto-xext-dev / libxi-dev thing - do you know if upstream is aware of it and thinking of a better solution to it?
[08:03] <dholbach> (debian bug 499858)
[09:18] <jcristau> dholbach: dunno.  how many packages are affected?
[10:48] <jcristau> dholbach: actually... apps that want to include XTest.h probably use libxtst, so libxtst-dev Depends: libxi-dev would seem to make sense.
[10:50] <dholbach> jcristau: I'm not an X expert - far from it - but libxtst-dev does not include XTest.h
[10:52] <jcristau> dholbach: XTest.h provides the prototypes for libXtst
[11:07] <dholbach> jcristau: just trying to find out how many packages there are - libfakekey is another candidate
[11:08] <jcristau> also build-deps on libxtst-dev
[11:09] <dholbach> ok
[11:09] <dholbach> jcristau: libxtst would still need to workaround it though, but I'll try to collect some more data
[11:38] <dholbach> jcristau: this is what I found using a very unscientific method: http://paste.ubuntu.com/135963/
[11:38] <dholbach> my gut feeling says there's lots more :-/
[11:39] <dholbach> making libxtst-dev Depends on libxi-dev would fix most of them, I guess
[11:54] <jcristau> ratpoison has a libxtst-dev b-dep
[11:54] <jcristau> so i think you should go for that
[11:55] <dholbach> jcristau: you're right - I overlooked it
[11:55] <dholbach> thanks
[11:58] <dholbach> jcristau: I'll talk to bryce about it - thanks a bunch!
[11:58] <jcristau> np
[12:01] <jcristau> sorry i didn't think of that solution earlier..
[12:01] <dholbach> jcristau: don't worry - you guys do fantastic work anyway :-)
[12:17] <dholbach> jcristau: are you going to do it in Debian too?
[12:18] <dholbach> (libxtst build-depends on libxi-dev, lixtst-dev depends on libxi-dev)
[12:18] <dholbach> in that case we should be able to sync the package :-)
[12:19] <jcristau> XInput.h is in x11proto-input-dev in debian still
[12:20] <dholbach> ahhh!
[12:20] <jcristau> i suppose we could do that change anyway, but..
[12:20] <dholbach> ok, in that case, I'll just upload it and let bryce fix whatever needs fixing after the release :)
[12:20] <dholbach> jcristau: I just stumbled across it when I sponsoring a few bugfixes :)
[12:21] <jcristau> yeah i'm surprised this didn't come up earlier
[12:21] <dholbach> same here
[12:21] <tjaalton> it was moved in intrepid because of the input-properties changes, but then upstream moved it back for XI 1.5
[12:21] <dholbach> we should have more regular rebuild tests, if you ask me :)
[12:21] <tjaalton> so we're just waiting for XI2 and things should be in sync again :)
[12:23] <dholbach> tjaalton: I'll upload the workaround in a bit, just FYI
[12:24] <tjaalton> dholbach: ok
[12:26] <dholbach> ok my friends - that was it from me - take care :-)
[23:50] <bryce> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Goodbye-Ubuntu-7-10-107519.shtml
[23:51] <bryce> I'm going to go ahead and unsub us from lrm-2.6.22 at this point, even though it's a few more weeks until 7.10 is officially unsupported.


[11:01] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:44] <smallfoot-> firefox 15 dont work when u type åöl in url?
[13:18] <bazhang> !bugs | smallfoot-
[13:21] <smallfoot-> maybe someone can confirm it?
[13:21] <smallfoot-> http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%A4nn%C3%A4ssla <-- that link works, because it url escape it
[13:21] <smallfoot-> but if you type /wiki/Brännässla manually by hand, then it dont work
[13:21] <smallfoot-> then it becomes: http://sv.wikipedsv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%A4nn%C3%A4ssla
[15:06] <teeks99> I have a (headless) server runing 12.04 that I want to update to the Alpha 3 of quantal to see how a couple packages are shaping up in the new version.  Per the instructions at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha3, I tried 'sudo do-release-upgrade -d' (with the -d for the development version), but it says "No new release found"...any ideas?
[15:13] <BluesKaj> teeks99:  look in the package manager and make sure you have development updates/upgrades enabled
[15:23] <teeks99> what would that consist of on a headless server?
[15:24] <teeks99> is that backports in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[15:24] <jokerdino> anyone knows if this bug is back in 12.10? https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz-plugins-main/+bug/875557
[15:42] <jbicha> teeks99: look in /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
[15:44] <teeks99> that worked, thanks
[15:44] <teeks99> by default it is set to lts (as 12.04 was a lts)
[15:45] <teeks99> the wiki page should probably be modified to say something about that, as it explicitly states that "To upgrade from Ubuntu 12.04 on a server" you just need the 'do-release-upgrade -d' which isn't true
[15:46] <teeks99> but what's the policy on editing a wiki page for an already release alpha?
[15:52] <jbicha> teeks99: I just updated the page :)
[15:53] <teeks99> cool, thanks...is there already a template page started for the beta releases too? I couldn't find one but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist
[15:59] <jbicha> teeks99: no, they'll use the Alpha3 page as the template
[15:59] <teeks99> great :-)
[16:00] <jbicha> it's a wiki so anyone with a Launchpad account can edit it
[16:00] <jbicha> however the Release Notes are rather important so be careful too :)
[16:02] <smallfoot-> when i open wine config the font looks weird
[16:03] <BluesKaj> teeks99:  sorry I'll read more carefully the next time :P
[17:58] <simplew> trism: removed upstream or just in ubuntu package?
[17:59] <trism> simplew: upstream, I'll see if I can find the bug again
[18:00] <simplew> trism: these gnome guys are inventing again, maybe its time to move to kde for good
[18:00] <trism> simplew: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=676897
[18:30] <simplew> simplew: simplew
[18:49] <trism> simplew: I imagine it will eventually get into ubuntu if anyone decides to package it as requested here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=659440
[19:00] <simplew> trism: i have Documents in native lang and in english, and the same goes for video, music, etc, how can i have them all in a single language and avoid duplicated folders?
[19:03] <trism> simplew: that is weird, can you pastebin ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs ?
[19:13] <trism> simplew: though it might be bug 1001438
[19:54] <zth> i need a couple of 12.10 packages into my 12.04, but really only like 5-6 of them. how would i most easily go about getting these? adding quantal-repos and upgrading those specific, then removing the repos?
[20:06] <genii-around> zth: Upgrades then become a problem.
[20:38] <da3rdk> 2
[21:06] <simplew> i have an account from ubuntu precise that had the home folders (Documents, Videos, Music, etc) in my naitve language, now that i have move to quantal i have duplicated fodlers, the same folders in my native lang and in english, and the ones in english are now considered as the valid ones, how can i put ubuntu using the ones from my native lang?
[21:15] <genii-around> simplew: Sounds like bug 1001438