[12:30] <Riddell> jdong: looks like subversion 1.4 was uploaded, I know KDE developers would love you for a backport
[12:30] <jdong> Riddell: I saw that too
[12:31] <jdong> Riddell: I'm waiting for the archives to sync up and then I'll look on it
[12:31] <jdong> and cmake too, that's on my mind
[12:31] <Riddell> yay!
[03:08] <manchicken> Wuddup?
[03:14] <jdong> the scrollback
[03:14] <jdong> that's what.
[03:15] <Jucato> jdong: congratulations on the forums council thingy
[03:15] <jdong> Jucato: thanks
[03:15] <jdong> Jucato: we're all glad to get that finally sorted out
[03:16] <Jucato> does this mean less downtime for the forums? :P
[03:18] <jdong> Jucato: WHAT downtime?
[03:18] <jdong> ;-)
[03:18] <Jucato> lol
[03:18] <jdong> Jucato: the governance policy doesn't have anything to do with elmo giving us more powerful servers
[03:18] <jdong> :)
[03:18] <Jucato> ha
[03:18] <Jucato> oh well, maybe it's a start :P
[03:18] <jdong> but I think we've played enough musical database servers to work around that for a while
[03:19] <jdong> Canonical wouldn't buy that the database server was low on RAM, so they just upgraded the RAM on the webserver to absurd amounts
[03:19] <jdong> (8GB-ish)
[03:19] <jdong> so we just moved much of the database ooperation over to the webserver
[03:19] <jdong> and magically everything went faster
[03:19] <jdong> gee, wonder if it was RAM related :)
[03:19] <Jucato> heh
[03:20] <jdong> Yes, there's a new theme. Please consider the NAACP before making any comments about black or brown colors
[03:20] <Jucato> NAACP?
[03:20] <jdong> that is sarcasm for I'm not the guy who does the artwork, please don't whine about it in front of me :)
[03:20] <Jucato> lol
[03:20] <jdong> Jucato: go to wikipedia
[03:21] <Jucato> uh oh... another upgrade that breaks X (if you're using nvidia)?
[03:23] <jdong> Jucato: kind of sort of
[03:24] <Jucato> :P
[03:24] <jdong> Jucato: this time it affects relatively few people
[03:24] <jdong> Jucato: most of whom are using some sort of non-official 9xxx driver
[03:24] <jdong> Jucato: but a few with legacy are having trouble too
[03:24] <Jucato> yeah... that's why I said "uh-oh"
[03:24] <jdong> Jucato: it's been a rough day
[04:33] <nixternal> wo0t...new lappy is up and running Kubuntu Edgy like a champ...915resolution is a savior, and I hate to say it but so is ndiswrapper ;(
[04:33] <Jucato> heh :)
[04:45] <manchicken> nixternal: Broadcom?
[04:45] <manchicken> I hate ndiswrapper.
[04:45] <manchicken> This broadcom is a mistake I won't make again.
[04:57] <nixternal> ya, broadcom 4311, but it came with the laptop i purchased
[05:00] <manchicken> Why does kde-systemsettings hate me?
[05:00] <manchicken> WHY?!
[05:09] <nixternal> now lets see how long the battery lasts on this thing
[05:57] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee
[05:58] <Hobbsee> hi Jucato
[06:30] <Jucato> Hobbsee: is it normal that some (KDE) apps get added under "More applications" sub menus?
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i think so, else you get the gnome situation
[06:31] <Jucato> ah
[06:31] <Hobbsee> which is just a massive mess, and is one of the reasons why i hate gnome
[06:31] <Jucato> heh
[06:31] <Jucato> I was just surprised that kdissert and some of the KOffice apps are under those submenus
[06:32] <Jucato> thanks for your time :)
[06:32] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[06:32] <Hobbsee> oops
[06:32] <Jucato> heh
[06:36] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/CompaqPresarioC304NR
[06:37] <nixternal> i just love when stuff is easy to get working...and Kubuntu rocks on this bad boy...Guidance is doing its job and then some...going on 2 hours of battery life and just about at the half way point
[06:40] <Hobbsee> nice
[11:38] <seaLne> should ntfs partitions on usb media appear and be automounted?
[12:11] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee! :)
[12:12] <Hobbsee> hey Jucato
[12:16] <Riddell> seaLne: I don't see why not
[12:17] <Hobbsee> hey Riddell
[12:18] <Tonio_> hi ;)
[12:19] <Jucato> hi Tonio_, hi Riddell! :D
[12:19] <seaLne> Riddell: i get the what do you want to do with it message but nothing is done with it
[12:21] <Hobbsee> hey Tonio_!
[12:21] <Tonio_> HI Hobbsee, Jucato, seaLne
[12:27] <seaLne> Tonio_: can you remember what the point of your device_arg patch to k3b was?  i'm working on v1.0rc2 just now and it doesn't seem obvious to me
[12:42] <kwwii_> Riddell: starting to get questions about the naming stuff
[12:42] <kwwii_> guess he has pinged you now ;-)
[01:02] <gnomefreak> are we really getting rid of kubuntu-desktop package?
[01:03] <Hobbsee> where'd you hear that, gnomefreak?
[01:03] <gnomefreak> i dont remember someone a few weeks ago told me
[01:03] <Hobbsee> oh right
[01:05] <gnomefreak> they said something about it interfering with something
[01:05] <gnomefreak> so it was being dropped i havent had spare minutes to ask so i did now
[01:07] <Tonio_> seaLne: did you lookat the current source package <,
[01:07] <Tonio_> ?
[01:07] <Tonio_> you'll have the patch in there
[01:08] <gnomefreak> brb Work calling
[01:21] <seaLne> Tonio_: yeah but it dosen't make sense against the new version
[01:26] <Tonio_> seaLne: argh.....
[01:26] <Tonio_> seaLne: hum.... I'll have to look at it....
[01:26] <Tonio_> seaLne: is there ay major new changes ?
[01:26] <seaLne> fair amount
[01:27] <Tonio_> seaLne: grrrrrrrrr.... okay we'll have to port the pach
[01:27] <Tonio_> patch
[01:27] <Tonio_> I'm grabbing thepackage and source to have a look, a moment :)
[01:27] <seaLne> currently i can't get it to build in pbuilder (builds ok outside it) and err it dosen't actually burn but appart from that :)
[01:28] <seaLne> i've redone all the other patches that were necessary, just wasn't to sure what that patch was supposed to do
[01:31] <Riddell> kwwii: who?
[01:31] <kwwii> Riddell: I told boemann to ask you
[01:32] <Riddell> seaLne: is that the patch so when you click on a .iso it opens up that file ready to burn?  it's never worked properly (fails the second time you open up an iso)
[01:34] <Riddell> kwwii: he pinged but hasn't said anything yet
[01:34] <Riddell> kwwii: I'm planning to do the naming stuff over christmas holidays
[01:35] <kwwii> Riddell: cool :-) he was wanting to know about how to name the view icons
[01:35] <kwwii> like view 1:1, view actual pixels, etc.
[01:35] <kwwii> for koffice I think
[01:40] <Tonio_> seaLne: looking at the sources, the patch is exactlythe same, no change on that point
[01:41] <Tonio_> seaLne: you may just have to rewrite the patch for the correct line numbers but that's it
[01:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: hi ;) sorry for doing the minutes late, ut I have uploaded that on monday morning
[01:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: on my latest k3b package it was working, I just had to patch the desktop file for correct mimetypes
[01:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: afaik i worked
[01:42] <Riddell> oh, nice
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: look at kubuntu_09_iso_cue_mimetypes.diff
[01:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: do you have plans for the gtk-qt-engine merge?
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: yup, it is on my todo
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just wanted to work on kickoff today, but I can do it now if you want
[01:44] <Tonio_> seaLne: what it the problem you have with that k3b package ?
[01:45] <Tonio_> Riddell: we need to investigate that kdesktop bad translation issue........
[01:45] <Tonio_> that's really strange....
[01:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: no rush, just so long as it's not forgotten that's all
[01:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: did you also claim kwin-style-crystal?
[01:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, yup, you're right
[01:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: not at the moment, will do today ortomorrow
[01:47] <Riddell> cool
[01:47] <manchicken> Riddell: I haven't forgotten about kde-systemsettings and the tabs.
[01:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: I went at my parent's home this WE, so I took a few days break :)
[01:48] <manchicken> Riddell: Evidently, KTabWidget hates me.  I've been fist-fighting it for a few hours here and there.
[01:49] <manchicken> Well, KTabWidget and the entire codebase of kde-systemsettings.
[01:51] <manchicken> But I'm pretty convinced the the XML-GUI stuff is evil and is enjoying watching me squirm.
[01:51] <manchicken> That said, I think I'll go to work now.
[01:51] <manchicken> I just wanted to let you know I was still plugging away at it.
[01:52] <Riddell> manchicken: good luck
[01:52] <manchicken> Riddell: You say that as if I'll need it ;)
[02:14] <seaLne> Tonio_: ok i'll have a poke with the patch, i'm still unsure what is it doing
[02:16] <Tonio_> seaLne: poke upstream ?
[02:16] <Riddell> seaLne: changelog not say anything?
[02:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure it does
[02:16] <Tonio_> seaLne: I wanted to get the patched merged with upstream
[02:16] <Tonio_> seaLne: if that's your plan I can do it
[02:16] <Tonio_> seaLne: I just wanted to wait a bit for eventual problems with it
[02:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm affraid I once again forgot my gpg key :)
[02:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: will get it on saturday........
[02:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: will you upload gtk-qt-engine for me ? merge is done
[02:18] <seaLne> Tonio_: sorry no i ment poke the patch to get it working with 1rc2
[02:19] <Tonio_> seaLne: bah you just have to rewrite it, nothing changes except the line numbers......
[02:19] <seaLne>   * Add kubuntu_10_device_arg.diff, k3b_extract_audiocd.desktop <- i'm still unsure what "device" is for
[02:19] <seaLne> Tonio_: yeah, np
[02:19] <Tonio_> seaLne: adds a new --device option
[02:19] <Tonio_> seaLne: that's usefull to launch k3b in "rip cd" mode
[02:19] <Tonio_> that's the way I do to get the kdesktop integration
[02:20] <Tonio_> seaLne: didn't I add a commentin changelog ?shame on me if not.......
[02:21] <Tonio_> seaLne: what the patch does exactly is adding that new command line option
[02:21] <seaLne> oh you mean like use /dev/scd1 or something?
[02:21] <Tonio_> seaLne: so that you can do "k3b --device /dev/scd1"
[02:21] <Tonio_> exactly
[02:21] <seaLne> ok, sorry for being thick :)
[02:21] <Tonio_> seaLne: then I also add a bashscript and a desktop file for the integration
[02:22] <Tonio_> seaLne: be carefull to install all those files via debian/rules as I did
[02:22] <seaLne> yep :)
[02:44] <Riddell> seaLne: " coincide with other theirs."  typo in interview
[02:45] <freeflying> Riddell: I prepare use Sans in all conffile in kubuntu-default-settins, how about it?
[02:46] <Riddell> freeflying: what still doesn't?
[02:47] <freeflying> Riddell: kdm
[02:52] <Riddell> freeflying: go ahead
[02:52] <Riddell> freeflying: remember to add a changelog entry in debian/changelog
[02:52] <freeflying> Riddell: got it, thanks :)
[02:53] <Lure> Riddell: what can we do with kdeadmin build problem: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/284062
[02:53] <Lure> Riddell: I was askin in ubuntu-devel yesterday, but no clear conclusion what is to be done
[02:53] <Lure> Riddell: it looks like that buildd's chroots are an issue
[02:55] <Riddell> Lure: looks like the issue is just that mbr is in universe
[02:55] <Riddell> Lure: we just need to get that into main so lilo can be installed
[02:56] <Lure> Riddell: so we need MIR for mbr due to build-dep?
[02:57] <Lure> Riddell: btw, can we also request showfoto and digikamimageplugins for main and also the to ship - would make digikam much usable
[03:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: gtk-qt package is done, will upload saturday when I get my key back
[03:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: let's work on kickoff :)
[03:04] <Tonio_> Lure: shofoto duplicated gwenview somehow...
[03:05] <Tonio_> Lure: I follow you on the plugins
[03:06] <Tonio_> Lure: btw, replacing gwenview with shofoto can eventually be discussed.....
[03:09] <Tonio_> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Environment/Tools/Suse-Kickoff-for-Kubuntu-20919.shtml
[03:09] <Tonio_> hehe, that'll make it easy to integrate ;)
[03:34] <Riddell> Lure: digikamimageplugins needs imagemagick, which takes up lots of space
[03:34] <Riddell> Lure: if we have space on the CDs just now it's only because I took out all language packs
[03:36] <bddebian> Heya
[03:41] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[03:42] <bddebian> Heya Jucato
[03:46] <Riddell> Lure: but a MIR for mbr seems the right way to go for lilo
[03:51] <Lure> Riddell: will look into this over weekend - I am traveling today/tommorow
[04:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: we should contactthat guy : http://3v1n0.tuxfamily.org/dists/edgy/3v1n0/index.html
[04:03] <Tonio_> he should contribute to kubuntu directly instead of maintaining this........
[04:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: apt-cache show digikamimageplugins | grep magick
[04:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: doesn't output anything.... aren't you confused with kipi-plugins ?
[04:09] <Riddell> maybe I am
[04:10] <Tonio_> Riddell: afaik digikam plugins don't depend on it and kipi-plugins only recommends imagemagick
[04:11] <Tonio_> btw I changed it to also recommend graphicsmagick-imagemagick-compat, which worksvery nicelly ;)
[04:23] <allee> Tonio_: in case you plan to work on digikam too. I've added more fixes to digikam last night. not done yet and I'm not sure if I find time in next few days, but I can send a debdiff if needed
[04:25] <Tonio_> allee: sure, please do
[04:52] <allee> Tonio_: is there a reason why usr/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/digikam-*.desktop are not in digikam pkgs?  They are used in the media action dialog.
[04:58] <Tonio_> allee: debian package removed it
[04:58] <Tonio_> allee: is that merged upstream ?
[04:58] <Tonio_> in that case I'll haveto changethe instal file
[04:59] <allee> Tonio_: No debian has it (still one pkgs).  I'll add them to install file.  Thx
[05:00] <allee> Tonio_: upstream = debian?  Not yet.  'We' didn't want to do it before etch.  Now as digikam goes to experimental I'll merge it
[05:01] <allee> Tonio_: we'll more presice: I'll add it to my dapper backport and at the commit change for use in sid/experimental use ;)
[05:01] <Tonio_> allee: hum, when i checked the rc1 debian package, the desktop file wasn't in it....
[05:01] <Tonio_> allee: maybe that's a corrected error but I'm sure of this
[05:02] <allee> Tonio_: uh, oh!  Lemme check rc1/2
[05:03] <Tonio_> allee: well technically my current ubuntu package is debian rc1 with updated tarball and splitted
[05:03] <Tonio_> allee: not any other change/removal/addition
[05:06] <allee> Tonio_: the install file miss debian/tmp/usr/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/digikam*.desktop.  Fixed.  Those files are new in 0.9.  AFAIR I removed them from 0.8.2 due to too many usage buglets
[05:07] <Tonio_> allee: okay :)
[05:07] <Tonio_> allee: so they have been added upstream
[05:16] <seaLne> Riddell: ta, blaim benc :)
[06:07] <seele> mhb: when do you want to talk about grub?
[06:15] <mhb> seele: anytime you want
[06:18] <mhb> seele: do you want to talk today?
[06:45] <oslo>  i dont want korgac run when i run kontact how can i do ?
[06:51] <Tonio_> oslo: remove the korga component in the kontact options
[06:54] <oslo> Tonio_> it can't
[06:55] <oslo> remove korgac.desktop work
[06:55] <oslo> there no korga component in koptions
[06:56] <Tonio_> oslo: let me check
[06:57] <oslo> ok
[07:00] <oslo> Tonio_> http://dl-3.free.fr/52616e646f6d4956e4aeadb39f9eb068833da4d226c05d461b0fddc940fcf1c7/kontact.png
[07:01] <oslo> my light kontact, anyway i dont use korganizer or korgac but it seems i can't remove them without kontact
[07:04] <Tonio_> oslo: ah bah tu es francais :)
[07:04] <Tonio_> on peut se le faire en francais ca sera plus simple :)
[07:05] <Tonio_> mais bon effectivement ca semble dur de dmarrer kontact sans l'organizer.........
[07:05] <Tonio_> je vois rien a ce niveau dans la config
[07:06] <oslo> tu vosi ya pas
[07:07] <oslo> g t sur #kontact un gars ma dit kil voyait d'ou ca venait du source et il ma dit soit de renomer le binaire soit le .desktop
[07:07] <oslo> & puis c vrai ca marche
[07:07] <oslo> sur festy beryl intgr ?
[07:07] <Tonio_> oslo: non
[07:08] <Tonio_> oslo: beryl, c'est naze et c'est blind de gtk, et nous on veut pas de gtk
[07:08] <Tonio_> et de toutes facons beryl neservira a rien avec kde4
[07:08] <Tonio_> donc on va pas l'intgrer pour le virer apres, on fera sans
[07:08] <oslo> c vrai yaura des acc graphique sosu kde4 ?
[07:08] <Tonio_> apres concernant ubuntu, tant donn que gnome pourrait utiliser beryl par defaut, j pense que ubuntu gnome l'integrera
[07:09] <Tonio_> oslo: waip, kde4 aura son propre moteur, et il sera probablement compatible avec les plugins de compiz et beryl
[07:09] <Tonio_> mais ca c'est pas sur a ce que je sais
[07:09] <Tonio_> mais le bureau acceler sera gr nativement, waip
[07:09] <oslo> & c pour quand le bb ?
[07:09] <Tonio_> donc comme ca sort dans en gros 6 ou 7 mois.........; on va se passer de beryl
[07:10] <Tonio_> etpis bon beryl, c'est une merde a configurer, ca se barre dans tous les sens, et c'est beaucoup trop tape a l'oeil
[07:10] <Tonio_> je prefererai un truc light a la macosx
[07:10] <Tonio_> et apparement kde4 s'oriente vers ca
[07:10] <oslo> au faite tu utilise gmailfs ??? moi jy arrive que en root ....
[07:11] <Tonio_> non j'utilise pas gmail :)
[07:11] <oslo> donc pas gmailfs
[07:11] <Tonio_> gmail propose pas imap, donc dans mes critres de choix (avis perso) c'est de la merde
[07:11] <Tonio_> voila
[07:11] <toma> merde?
[07:11] <oslo> pourquoi imap a pop ?
[07:11] <oslo> Tonio_
[07:12] <Tonio_> parceque imap tu gres une synchro locale distante en temps rel
[07:12] <Tonio_> donc je ne downloade pas mes messages
[07:12] <Tonio_> et je peux grer une arborescence de fichiers distante pour ranger mes mails
[07:12] <Tonio_> tout ca pop ne le permet pas
[07:12] <Tonio_> en gratuit qui propose imap et qui marche super bien, y a la poste
[07:12] <Tonio_> donc je suis sur laposte.net
[07:13] <Tonio_> en pop tu peux laisser une copie des messages, mais si tu ranges tes mails, ca reste en bordel sur le serveur
[07:13] <oslo> tu peux leffacer cette copie aussi
[07:13] <Tonio_> donc imap c'est le top, mais peu de service gratuits proposent imap,  part free et la poste
[07:13] <Tonio_> oslo: waip
[07:13] <Tonio_> oslo: par exemple je fais jamais de sauvegarde de mes mails
[07:13] <Tonio_> si je dois formatter, je reconfigure mon client et je rcupre TOUT exactement comme c'tait avant
[07:14] <oslo> et avec free & laposte tes pass se balade en clair sur le rseaux non ??? :D
[07:14] <Tonio_> et en gnral pour pouvoir faire du offline, je fais du imap en mode dconnect
[07:14] <Tonio_> y a pas mieux que ca :)
[07:14] <Tonio_> oslo: bah non ca se crypte imap
[07:14] <Tonio_> imap-tls
[07:14] <oslo> pas sur le serveur free si ?
[07:14] <Tonio_> en pop aussi c'est en clair
[07:14] <Tonio_> non free ca doit tre en clair
[07:15] <Tonio_> mais bon le pop passe en clair aussi, donc bon.........
[07:15] <oslo> oui free pop & imap en clair
[07:15] <oslo> sur laposte le imap est crypt ?
[07:15] <Tonio_> e te dis ca
[07:15] <fdoving> !fr
[07:15] <ubotu> Allez a #ubuntu-fr ou #kubuntu-fr pour de l'aide et de la discussion en francais.
[07:15] <fdoving> :)
[07:15] <oslo> (:
[07:16] <Tonio_> laposte gre pas tls
[07:16] <Tonio_> non c'est du clair aussi
[07:17] <Tonio_> mais bon ca je m'en fous un peu a vrai dire.........
[07:17] <Tonio_> je suis pas parano
[07:17] <Tonio_> qui irai snifferma carte rseau , analyser les trames pour rcuprer ca ?
[07:17] <Riddell> fdoving: any idea what the status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/73225 is?
[07:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73225 in kdepim "[edgy]  SRU: kpilot of calendar events and addressbook fails." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[07:17] <oslo> PV
[07:18] <oslo> no
[07:18] <Riddell> man, that's a big patch
[07:19] <fdoving> Riddell: hmm.. no, it's pending approval for sru i guess, does that last comment mean I should use that for this SRU? I can read 'in the future'.. yes it's a huge patch. :|
[07:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: I have a kickoff patch for kdebase, 340 KB
[07:20] <Riddell> ouch
[07:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: probably easy to maintain as it is just a diff between the svn and the stable branch of kde
[07:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: in fact we just have to extrct it from the opensuse kdebase package
[07:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: but well......... I'm not a fan of that way to do
[07:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: the good thing is that there isa kcm for configuration and choose between the kicker and kickoff
[07:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: no yast component for administration ;)
[07:22] <Tonio_> that's pretty cool
[10:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: fyi, the suse diff for kickoff is really easy to implement
[10:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just had 1 failed hunk on the all patch, that's okay
[10:17] <apokryphos> nice. Will it be default in feisty or has that not been decided yet?
[10:24] <allee> Tonio_ : digikam upload to revu:   http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3775   This also fixes bug 75799
[10:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75799 in digikam "digikamdcraw is missing" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75799
[10:29] <Tonio_> allee: okay will do tomorrow, I don't have my gpg key to upload
[10:29] <Tonio_> allee: thanks :)


[00:25]  * jdong ponders the laziest way to replace this encrypted Hardy netbook image with Jaunty.....
[00:26] <lifeless> update-manager -d -c
[00:26] <jdong> lifeless: do you think that will go smoothly from Dell's modified LPIA Harddy port up to Jaunty?
[00:27] <lifeless> no idea
[00:27] <lifeless> but it would be fun to find out
[00:27] <jdong> yeah that was my worry :)
[00:27] <jdong> regular Hardy, that's what I would've done in a heartbeat
[00:28] <jdong> ok I'm just not gonna be lazy and download an alternate CD and repack it into a USB.
[01:09] <mneptok> jdong: you'll do as you are ordered, and like it, soldier!
[01:10] <jdong> mneptok: wow... either the first heat wave is taking its toll on me or we need to take this conversation into private quarters :D
[01:12] <mneptok> jdong: let me get my "Ursula, Demon Mistress Of The SS" costume
[01:13] <jdong> mneptok: my therapist said those only exist in nightmares
[01:14] <mneptok> jdong: http://cfs7.tistory.com/image/11/tistory/2008/08/05/15/27/4897f2d819627
[02:46] <pipegeek> I think there may be a bug in the version of kvm that shipped with jaunty (kvm-84).  It's currently very slowly and meticulously hosing a qcow2 image (instead of snapshotting it).  If I find it, I'll submit a bug report.  It looks like there's already a bug report open for a similar problem with the version of qemu-img that shipped with jaunty (352785), and that it was reported nearly a month ago.
[02:46] <pipegeek> err, s/kvm/kvm-img/
[05:03] <doctormo> I'd like to create the simplest kind of debian package, one of a binary blob, which only really needs to put some files in the right places.
[05:04] <StevenK> doctormo: Then your debian/rules contains a bunch of boiler plate and a few calls to cp
[05:05] <doctormo> StevenK: Yes my next line was going to bem shoudl I use rules or just an install file?
[05:05] <StevenK> Or mv, if you're feeling particularly evil
[05:05] <doctormo> because the install file seems to cover this use case too
[05:05] <lifeless> an install file would be better I think
[05:05] <StevenK> doctormo: Sounds like a perfect case for debian/install and dh_install, but it is your choice
[05:08] <jdong> doctormo: IMO install file would be the more "aesthetically pleasing" way of doing it though nothing's wrong with the cp-in-install-target approach either
[05:09] <lifeless> data driven++
[05:10] <doctormo> Also, since so many of you are here,
[05:11] <doctormo> I'm packaging up a binary driver which has a license which allows redistribtion, what's the rules on putting in on my ppa?
[05:11] <jdong> that's more of a #launchpad question
[05:12] <doctormo> jdong: aye aye
[05:12] <doctormo> thanks for your help
[05:25] <doctormo> Ah, now it's interesting, some of the files are symbolic links, using just the install file, the debuild process just creates copies of the files instead of preserving the links
[05:31] <jdong> there's a special install.links file or something like that for symlinks IIRC
[05:35] <doctormo> jdong: do you know of documentation where the format of that file might be available?
[05:38] <ScottK> man dh_link is a likely place to start.
[05:39] <LaserJock> doctormo: it's just links or <binary name>.links
[05:39] <LaserJock> doctormo: but that's to create new links, not preserve old ones
[05:40] <doctormo> LaserJock: It's ok to create new links, it's just linking a lib to it's versioned versions
[05:42] <LaserJock> doctormo: hmm, I'd think that should have worked
[05:42] <doctormo> LaserJock: I still don't know the format of the file debian/links
[05:44] <LaserJock> source destination
[05:44] <LaserJock> doctormo: like ln -s just without the ln -s :-)
[06:09]  * LaserJock just realizes that it's impossible to do a search for "canonical" LP teams :(
[06:10] <LaserJock> that is, searching for the term "canonical" gives a permission denied
[06:50] <pitti> Good morning
[06:56] <pitti> cjwatson, infinity: I uploaded debhelper on Friday, waiting in unapproved now
[07:21] <dholbach> good morning
[08:54] <jussi01> err, who wrote the release notes?
[08:55] <StevenK> Many people
[08:55] <jussi01> perhaps we should suggest using "gksudo gedit" instead of "sudo gedit" ?
[08:56] <liw> why?
[08:57] <jussi01> !gksudo
[08:58] <liw> "sudo gedit" seems to work for me (I had nothing to do with the release notes, though)
[08:58] <jussi01> liw: it works, but isnt the right way to do it. (read the link there)
[09:00] <jussi01> brb
[09:01] <geofft> out of curiosity, does 'sudo -H' solve these issues? (i.e., does gksudo just happen to do what -H does, by default?)
[09:01] <liw> sudo seems to preserve HOME already
[09:03] <liw> I have nothing against people recommending gksudo instead of sudo for GUI apps, but as long as sudo works perfectly fine, except for a couple of broken apps, I'm not sure I care much :)
[09:03] <geofft> right, -H means to set HOME=/root
[09:03] <geofft> $ sudo env | grep HOME     HOME=/home/geofft
[09:04] <geofft> The issues that web page discusses seem to be caused when root creates files in your homedir
[09:07] <liw> few GUI programs should be run as root (firefox certainly not)
[09:41] <geofft> Apparently screen's initscript cleans sessions I started at the emergency password prompt.
[09:41] <geofft> Where on the "bug" to "you're doing something weird, stop it" scale is that?
[09:43] <liw> "obviously a bug"
[09:44] <liw> /tmp cleaning might have similar issues
[09:48] <directhex> it looks like i need an SRU after all.
[09:50] <dholbach> asac: thanks for signing up for a Packaging Training session :)
[09:53] <asac> dholbach: welcome
[10:10] <jussi01> sorry, had to disappear for a while there - work ftw!
[10:12] <jussi01> liw: My issue is we have always had the recommendation for using gksudo as put forward in that factoid. If we are going to have that there, does it not come across silly to do the contrary on the release notes?
[10:19] <liw> jussi01, I don't know. Since plain sudo works for all relevant apps, I'm personally fine with having it in the release notes, but if you would like it fixed, suggest it to the release notes people (or edit the wiki)
[10:21] <dholbach> bryce, tjaalton: does bug 352708 need any more info to make it more useful?
[10:21] <slangasek> jussi01, liw: FWIW, this was discussed and we're using 'sudo' for consistency, so please don't edit the wiki until you've persuaded the release team why this is wrong :)
[10:25] <jussi01> slangasek: exactly the reason I hadnt edited it yet. thanks for clarifying
[10:49]  * slangasek looks in dismay at the set of upgrade bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~milkthemilk
[10:49] <slangasek> I don't think that user's system is coming back
[10:53] <StevenK> The description in #366326 is fairly tasty
[10:54] <pitti> ScottK, slangasek: sru-accept updated to add missing space to bug comment, FYI
[10:54] <slangasek> pitti: ah yes, thanks
[11:05] <pitti> NCommander: so, I set up an apport retracer on rimu for armel, but I get timeouts from LP
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: ^ (FYI)
[11:06] <seb128> pitti: ok
[11:06]  * pitti blames firewall rules
[11:07] <ogra> pitti, doesnt matter, armel has no bugs anyway :P
[11:07] <pitti> ogra: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=need-armel-retrace :)
[11:07] <ogra> its the totally bugfree arch :)
[11:08] <ogra> lies all lies !
[11:08] <directhex> sabdfl, a word of advice? mail from roy schestowitz -> /dev/null. the guy's a compulsive liar.
[11:08] <pitti> ogra: got an Android G1 last week, so now I have arm in the house as well ;)
[11:08] <ogra> pitti, none we support though ...
[11:09] <pitti> ogra: we need to change that!
[11:09] <ogra> pitti, we likely do but in the other direction ...
[11:09]  * amitk hides his android ports tree
[11:09] <pitti> ogra: (just kidding)
[11:09] <ogra> karmic migth only support armv7
[11:09] <ogra> which pretty much makes us lose all community
[11:11] <pitti> :(
[11:11] <ogra> yeah
[11:33] <geofft> where should I report HTTPS on brainstorm.ubuntu.com being broken?
[11:33] <directhex> i'd start a brainstorm vote on it. options include "ignore it" and "fix it". i'd totally vote up the "fix it" option though
[11:34] <geofft> hahaha
[11:34] <geofft>  SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. (Error code: ssl_error_rx_record_too_long)
[11:35] <directhex> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ideatorrent/ i think
[11:35] <Hobbsee> there's #ubuntu-brainstorm as well, fwiw
[11:37] <geofft> ah, thanks
[11:46] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
[11:52] <ScottK> pitti: I need to do another clamav SRU I think rather urgently for Bug #365823 - I was hoping you'd be willing to accept the one that's currenlty pending and verified first.
[11:52] <Ampelbein> ScottK: i attached a new debdiff to bug 351017
[11:53] <pitti> ScottK: 'accept first' -> move to -updates before accepting another SRU?
[11:53] <ScottK> Ampelbein: I'm not in a position to sponsor it right now, I'd approach the person that sponsored the last upload.
[11:53] <ScottK> pitti: Yes.
[11:53] <pitti> ScottK: or is your new upload fixing something that got broken in the previous SRU?
[11:53] <Ampelbein> ok
[11:54] <ScottK> pitti: No, I confirmed the problem exists in -release too.
[11:54] <pitti> ScottK: no problem from my side
[11:54] <ScottK> Great.  I'll have the new on uploaded shortly.
[11:54] <pitti> ScottK: the intrepid SRU isn't verified yet, though, so I only copy the jaunty one
[11:55] <ScottK> Correct.
[11:55] <ScottK> This new bug is only for Jaunty anyway.
[11:55] <pitti> copied to j-u and karmic
[11:57] <ScottK> Thanks.
[12:08] <ScottK> pitti: clamav uploaded to jaunty-proposed again.  The test case is also being written.
[12:40] <Keybuk> pitti: could you push your udev changes somewhere?
[12:40] <Keybuk> lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/ubuntu-jaunty maybe?
[13:17] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, sure
[13:18] <seb128> evand: hi, do you need any extra info on this usb key usb-creator bug?
[13:18] <seb128> evand: I will probably format the key or something so I can use it
[13:21] <evand> seb128: no, I have enough.  Please do go ahead and format the key.
[13:21] <seb128> evand: ok thanks
[13:26] <pitti> Keybuk: done, lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/jaunty (btw, you might want to consider to upgrade --1.6 for go-faster stripes)
[13:28] <Keybuk> pitti: but I only have bzr 1.13 ?
[13:29] <pitti> Keybuk: it's just the format version (there's an --1.9 too :) )
[13:29] <Keybuk> pitti: what I mean is that's the version I init'd with
[13:29] <Keybuk> so surely that's the latest format?
[13:29] <pitti> for some reason unknown to me it's not the default
[13:29] <pitti> perhaps to keep it compatible with some ancient dapper bzr or so
[13:29] <Keybuk> *blink*
[13:29] <Keybuk> so what format are we supposed to be using?
[13:30] <pitti> I don't think we are "supposed" to any
[13:30] <Keybuk> and how are we supposed to make an informed decision?
[13:30] <pitti> I just converted mine to 1.6, so did a lot of other people
[13:30] <slangasek> 'bzr help formats'
[13:30] <pitti> to make use of stacked branches and much faster pushes/commits
[13:31] <Keybuk> slangasek: that says "use the default format"
[13:31] <pitti> Keybuk: it's not an error to use the default one, I just wanted to mention that a newer one might particularly benefit udev, with its throusands of commits
[13:31] <Keybuk> pitti: the bzr repository is converted from git
[13:31] <Keybuk> so I don't really want to muck around, since it breaks pretty much monthly anyway
[13:31] <Keybuk> and I have to push --overwrite it
[13:32] <pitti> ugh
[13:32] <pitti> Keybuk: I recently tried to get bzr-git working, but it failed spectacularly; did you manage to get this to work?
[13:32]  * Keybuk just works on udev in git
[13:32] <Keybuk> pitti: nope, I'm just fast export | fast import
[13:32] <pitti> ah
[13:34] <Keybuk> I started off trying to work in bzr, with a branch based off git
[13:34] <Keybuk> but I repeatedly suffered from that age-old problem where I needed to know what git was doing, and what bzr-git was doing, in order to use bzr
[13:34] <Keybuk> so it was more effort
[13:34] <Keybuk> so I reverted to just using git, with the packaging in bzr
[13:34] <pitti> I just use git for importing postgresql as well
[13:34] <Keybuk> for util-linux-ng, the packaging is in git too
[13:35] <mvo> I'm considering doing the same for compiz
[14:01] <pitti> Keybuk: any idea why https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html still considers most merges as "updated"?
[14:02] <Keybuk> pitti: MoM is still running
[14:02] <Keybuk> it hasn't got as far as updating the web pages yet
[14:02] <pitti> ah, so it'll fix itself then?
[14:02] <pitti> thanks
[14:02] <Keybuk> did I not understand that we weren't to use MoM for the merge this time anyway?
[14:02] <pitti> oh, we aren't?
[14:03] <Keybuk> cjwatson: ?
[14:03] <Keybuk> Mark was saying we were to use bzr and james_w's imports?
[14:03] <pitti> OIC
[14:03] <pitti> did I miss an announcement for that?
[14:05] <ogra> Keybuk, damned and i was hoping we actually did such a good job with upstreaming stuff that we only had 52 updated packages :P
[14:05] <cjwatson> james_w's imports aren't quite going to make it for the start of the merge, unfortunately, but will hopefully be available by part-way through (before UDS)
[14:05] <pitti> ogra: remember that in jaunty, debian was still in freeze
[14:05] <ogra> yeah
[14:05] <ogra> scary ...
[14:05] <pitti> most of my patches forwarded to Debian weren't applied then
[14:06] <cjwatson> they need a bit of rejiggering to have the right ancestry relative to Debian, and to upgrade to a new branch format per the Bazaar team
[14:06] <pitti> and many still aren't :( (but many were)
[14:15] <ScottK> I seem to have fallen out of favor with ubuntu-devel-discuss (just had a post moderated and it looks to me like I sent from the correct address).  I'd appreciate it if some list admin would have a look ....
[14:17] <slangasek> pitti: could you comment on the correctness of the patch in bug #366119?  (cf. my comments about invoking hal vs. pm-suspend)
[14:18] <pitti> slangasek: gosh, I thought we entirely got rid of acpi-support suspend quirks in jaunty
[14:19] <slangasek> well, we've gotten rid of the quirks
[14:19] <slangasek> but not eliminated all the cases where acpi-support will bypass pm-utils
[14:19]  * pitti reads the completl bug trail first
[14:19]  * slangasek shakes his fist at gdm
[14:23] <pitti> slangasek: replied and subscribed
[14:29] <pitti> cody-somerville: do you still need cdbs' xfce.mk?
[14:29] <pitti> cody-somerville: last merge log said it's being phased out
[14:29] <cody-somerville> pitti, We do not use it anymore however I'm wondering about how the archive reorg will affect that
[14:30] <pitti> cody-somerville: what does the reorg have to do with it?
[14:30] <cody-somerville> translations
[14:30] <cody-somerville> Currently only main get the magic translation love
[14:30] <mr_pouit> pitti: I filed a bug report long ago asking for its removal
[14:30] <pitti> mr_pouit: oh
[14:31] <pitti> ah, bug 254048
[14:31] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, Do you think its a possibility we might use it again if we get the translation magic stuff back with the archive reorg?
[14:31] <pitti> but then you could just as well include langpack.mk
[14:32] <mr_pouit> cody-somerville: no, I would prefer to stick with upstream translations
[14:32] <cody-somerville> mr_pouit, okay.
[14:36] <superm1> cody-somerville, with archive reorg, universe and multiverse are getting translated too then?
[14:36] <cody-somerville> I dunno
[14:36] <cody-somerville> Thats what I was wondering
[14:36] <superm1> won't that make the lang packs too big for DVDs?
[14:38] <superm1> well should the first phases of archive reorg be happening during the karmic cycle then, or still in planning mode and (karmic +x)?
[14:54] <cjwatson> superm1: we'll only be doing the permissions reorganisation in the karmic cycle. Once we do the more sweeping component reorganisation (still in planning mode and so only "later"), we'll be able to have finer-grained control over language pack generation, so we'll be able to say "Ubuntu desktop", "Kubuntu", etc. rather than "main".
[14:54] <cjwatson> superm1: I don't think we'll be putting universe and multiverse in language packs, no
[14:54] <superm1> cjwatson, ah i see.  that makes much more sense
[15:01] <slangasek> Riddell: follow-ups on bug #339313 point out that the release notes only mention problems with WPA2, whereas users are reporting that plasma-widget-network-manager also has problems with WEP; can you confirm, and do you know if anything more should be added to the RN besides s/WPA2/& and WEP/?
[15:06] <Riddell> slangasek: I've not heard of it being broken with WEP, but that doesn't mean to say it never is
[15:07] <Riddell> slangasek: I'll look into it
[15:07] <liw> evand, are you planning to add a "remaining time estimate" to usb-creator?
[15:08] <evand> liw: I am now :)
[15:08] <liw> evand, I'm wanting to write a little Python library to do the actual estimation, would you like to include that? :)
[15:08] <evand> surely
[15:09] <slangasek> Riddell: ok, thanks
[15:09] <liw> cool, I'll hit you with a patch some day soon
[15:15] <liw> evand, hmm, also, usb-creator seems to be really, really slow on this laptop/with this usb stick
[15:23] <evand> liw: significantly slower than using dd directly?
[15:24] <liw> evand, it's been running for half an hour now...
[15:24] <liw> or something like that
[15:24]  * Keybuk actually LOLs at the "Paging Jeff Waugh" on Planet GNOME
[15:25] <evand> liw: What size persistence file did you create?
[15:25] <liw> evand, um, the default -- 128 mb?
[15:25] <evand> very odd
[15:26] <evand> Did it crash?  (~/.usb-creator.log)
[15:26] <liw> evand, correction, it's been running for one hour
[15:26] <liw> evand, hasn't crashed, and occasionally it progresses a bit
[15:27] <liw> perhaps it's a crappy usb stick, I'll try with another (on another computer, though, so lots of things will change)
[15:28] <liw> how big a stick do I need, anyway?
[15:28] <evand> anything larger than 700MB should work
[15:38] <liw> evand, hmm, on the other machine, with another stick, usb-creator already finished; I've had trouble with Transcend sticks before, so I'll stick with the theory that that's the problem
[15:38] <evand> ok
[15:38] <evand> thanks for the heads up anyway
[15:39] <ogra> liw, on a sidenote, usb 1.1 vs 2.0 issue ?
[15:41] <mdz> ara:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/ says "ubuntu brainstorm" :-)
[15:41] <ion_> Cool, the legacy lcdfilter started working again in jaunty after updating. I’m unable to find any mention of it in the changelogs. When it broke (a couple of weeks ago, i think), i didn’t find anything in the changelogs either.
[15:41] <liw> ogra, remind me how I verify?
[15:41] <ara> mdz: yes. it said that a long long time ago. schwuk is working in a new landing page
[15:42] <ogra> liw, hmm, good question :) dmesg might be able to tell something ... i used to check with lsmod in the past but nowadays i think we compile in the usb host drivers
[15:43] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 18 minutes on #ubuntu-classroom
[15:43] <ogra> dholbach, will there be canapes, tea and coffee ?
[15:43] <liw> ogra, alas, I see nothing obvious in the output of lsusb or dmesg
[15:44] <dholbach> ogra: sure :-)
[15:44] <ogra> liw, i have one of these cheap intel give away usb hubs here that switch the connection to 1.1 *behind* the port with no indication at all ... writing a 2G stick with that thing easily takes 2h for me
[15:46] <liw> evand, usb-creator still wants a desktop ISO, right?
[15:46] <mdz> liw: I believe it accepts server, alternate and DVD as well
[15:47] <evand> indeed, what mdz said
[15:47] <liw> excellent
[15:50] <pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: cdbs merged, tested, uploaded; *ugh*
[15:56] <mnemo> pitti: I've been asking a lot of people to run apport-collect lately and it seems that this script itself actually crashes for a significant number of users --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/368004
[15:58] <mnemo> pitti: within the hour I had two such crashes and this makes triage of all the xorg bugs pretty difficult
[16:15] <Keybuk> 418 outstanding merges
[16:15] <Keybuk> 2 updated merges
[16:15] <Keybuk> eep
[16:18] <pitti> yay lenny release
[16:22] <seb128> karmic is going to be "fun"
[16:23]  * ogra wonders if seb128 has that as IRC macro anywhere ... you seem to say that sentence every time the archive opens :P
[16:23] <highvoltage> heh, how so?
[16:23] <seb128> ogra: every cycle you mean?
[16:23] <ogra> yeah :)
[16:24] <ogra> its a traditional thing, isnt it ? :)
[16:24] <seb128> I probably didn't for jaunty
[16:24] <seb128> that was quiet cycle
[16:24] <directhex> not for me
[16:24] <seb128> but karmic seems to shape to be crazy
[16:24] <ogra> yeah, compared to whats ahead :)
[16:24] <directhex> jaunty was ke-raaazy for some of us
[16:24] <seb128> directhex: I didn't say it was not busy
[16:25] <seb128> directhex: but we didn't land thousand of new packages or any major refactoring in upstream code
[16:25]  * ogra notices that jaunty was one of his busiest ... thanks to ARM
[16:25] <directhex> lenny freeze didn't help
[16:25] <seb128> I found it helpful to have a bug fix cycle
[16:25] <seb128> we got bug fixes updates and not thousand of new versions
[16:26] <directhex> ogra, and the intersection of our work? http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/armless.png ;)
[16:27] <ogra> heh
[16:28] <directhex> seb128, on the subject of bug fixes, how do you feel about bug 367810?
[16:28] <directhex> wait, trust me to pick the one archive admin who isn't in the SRU team -_-
[16:29] <ScottK> There's more than one.
[16:30] <directhex> okay, one of the ten, then.
[16:30] <pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: I took the liberty to accept cdbs myself, since we previously talked about it
[16:41] <cjwatson> pitti: np
[16:43] <cjwatson> anyone know of a sync request they need to do anyway for which bug 246307 would fire?
[16:44] <cjwatson> i.e. the Debian changelog delta contains non-ASCII characters
[16:44] <cjwatson> if you do, I'd appreciate if you could try http://paste.ubuntu.com/159460/
[16:52] <pitti> mnemo: thanks, I'll take a look at it and followup in the bug
[17:40]  * hyperair grumbles about jaunty not using 1GB of RAM, and swapping too damn much
[18:14] <Adri2000> mvo_: can you take a look at bug #338419 please? why does it want to install filezilla-locales (which doesn't exist anymore by the way) instead of filezilla?
[18:18] <mvo_> Adri2000: thanks, will do (but tomorrow morning)
[18:59] <chieh> Hello, If i wrote an app I would like to add into the ubuntu repository, how do I go about doing it?
[19:00] <johnm> chieh: you can easily get your own launchpad ppa to begin with :)
[19:00] <chieh> i'm not sure what you mean?
[19:01] <chieh> oh i found a site on it
[19:01] <chieh> but is there a way to incoporate it with ubuntu apt-get?
[19:01] <maxb> chieh: Hop over to #ubuntu-motu for new package contributions
[19:03] <chieh> ok, thanks
[19:19] <shaya> unsure where to file a bug for cpu governor choice.  i.e. I think if a laptop (or a desktop) is plugged in, there's no reason to use the ondemand governor, and one ends up with a degraded experience by using it.
[19:19] <shaya> any ideas?
[19:29] <Commander1024> heyho, found a bug in ubuntu 8.04 LTS stable 32bit (at least)
[19:30] <Commander1024> where shall I report that?
[19:33] <Commander1024> package: openvpn
[19:33] <Commander1024> file /etc/init.d/openvpn line 58
[19:33] <ion_> http://launchpad.net/
[19:35] <Commander1024> hmm, registration requred :-( well I'll file it there -.-
[19:38] <ion_> Yeah, Launchpad isn’t an OpenID consumer yet. :-(
[19:39] <Commander1024> just mentioned, that I already got an account because of earlier incidents so I should have remembered launchpad -.-
[19:39] <Commander1024> just found out ...
[20:02] <Commander1024> filed as Bug #368141
[20:32] <olmari> Hello
[20:33] <olmari> There is small problem when installing new ubuntu 9.04 trough "netboot" or mini.iso
[20:33] <olmari> culprit is AFAIK package libmbca0
[20:35] <cjwatson> olmari: it would help if you said *what* the problem was - but really, bugs like this are better reported in Launchpad
[20:35] <olmari> I'll try to be short: if I choose only to install most basic CLI system and then spt-ge install ubuntu-desktop, it downloads everyfile, apparently libmbca0 last, then there reads [99% working] and it sits there forever
[20:35] <cjwatson> that's not libmbca0's fault
[20:35] <cjwatson> that's a rarely-reproducible bug in apt
[20:36] <olmari> hmm
[20:36] <cjwatson> every so often, the http method gets stuck right at the end
[20:36] <cjwatson> if you try it again, it'll probably work
[20:36] <olmari> nope
[20:36] <olmari> tried 3 times allways same file / spot
[20:36] <cjwatson> unfortunately we've never quite managed to track it down, because (at least on the systems we've tried) it doesn't happen every time
[20:36] <cjwatson> mvo would probably like to work with you on it, but he's not around right now
[20:36] <olmari> ok
[20:37] <cjwatson> please file a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+filebug in the meantime
[20:37] <cjwatson> mention that I sent you
[20:37] <PatrickBic> hi
[20:38] <PatrickBic> my old code (which worked in ubuntu8.10) still compiles but crashes on execution => http://pastebin.be/18092 ... is this usual/wanted/subject-to-change?
[20:38] <PatrickBic> concerning libnotifymm
[20:38] <olmari> if it does matter anything, I managed to install mine ubuntu by choosing ubuntu-desktop in installer, then when it "jams" I press esc and then choose form main menu "select packages to install" or to that effect, ubuntu-desktop was selecer already, then chose next and it started to install straight on :)
[20:39] <olmari> but I'll ofcourse do the bugreport too
[20:39] <cjwatson> olmari: right, that would work around it because it doesn't need to use the http method at all the second time round
[20:40] <olmari> cjwatson: well it apparetnly didn't download anything the second time as everything was on the comp already, including that lib
[20:40] <olmari> cjwatson: if that also matter
[20:40] <cjwatson> olmari: that's a restatement of what I just said, yes :-)
[20:40] <cjwatson> olmari: it doesn't matter
[20:40] <olmari> cjwatson: well I'm not native english speaker so you have to just bear me ;)
[20:41] <cjwatson> the problem you're encountering is specific to downloading stuff, so if apt-get doesn't have to download anything because it's all cached locally then that won't hit the problem
[20:42] <olmari> cjwatson: so the problem is in the apt download, it finishes downloading but not the process, I assume :)
[20:42] <olmari> now in retrospect
[20:42] <cjwatson> right
[20:43] <cjwatson> we encounter it from time to time in our live filesystem builds, but unfortunately only occasionally (once every week or two)
[20:43] <cjwatson> the symptoms suggest a race condition, so it could well depend on e.g. relative speed of your CPU and network connection, or things like that
[20:44] <Commander1024> cjwatson: considering your fist problem (http download with apt) do you have an nforce board with integrated "hardware" firewall?
[20:44] <olmari> hmm... I hope I could reproduce the bug when/if someone want's to try squash it... as I said it happened exact same spot each 3 times until I figured a way to finish installation (without do old ubuntu)
[20:45] <cjwatson> Commander1024: firstly, it's not my problem; secondly, it's vanishingly unlikely to be specific to certain motherboards. We've seen it on a variety of systems. It's almost certainly an apt bug
[20:45] <olmari> Commander1024: The problem is with ME this time, I have ibm t42p laptop, it is all intel stuff
[20:46] <cjwatson> it's very rare for problems above the level of the kernel and X (i.e. stuff that talks to the hardware directly) to be hardware-specific, and it should not normally be the first assumption
[20:46] <Commander1024> hmm, was just an idea, I am maintaining over 40 servers and workstations with debian / ubuntu and I have never seen such behaviour
[20:47] <cjwatson> it displays all the symptoms of a race condition. Race conditions are like this. Some people will see them all the time, some people will see them occasionally, some people will never see them.
[20:47] <cjwatson> it makes them very frustrating to debug
[20:47] <cjwatson> they also tend to go away when you try to apply debugging tools to them
[20:48] <Commander1024> that's right, it's just that this "nforce firewall thingy" created crippeled and wasted downloads of any kind
[20:48] <olmari> I can imagine... again I haven't even seen this problem before but for this one it was a constant
[20:48] <cjwatson> that's not the problem then.
[20:48] <Commander1024> k, got that
[20:48] <cjwatson> if the download were just corrupt, then apt would fail with an error message; it wouldn't just sit there forever.
[20:48] <cjwatson> (and if it did sit there forever, then that would *still* be an apt bug ...)
[20:56]  * cjwatson fixes rmadison to know about karmic
[21:10] <Adri2000> I wonder why we do not have a file somewhere with the list of known releases so that all the programs who need it can just use that file instead of managing their own list
[21:11] <olmari> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/368178 if interested :)
[21:17] <doctormo> Is there a way to re-set home after of while someone is logging in?
[21:18] <doctormo> I'm trying to create a useful way to use usb-pam while allowing the user's home directory (thus files and settings) to be safely stored on the usb stick too.
[22:32] <jablko> where is cron job output sent by default in ubuntu?
[22:35] <ion_> To the appropriate user via /usr/sbin/sendmail probably. Now please read the topic.
[23:51] <EagleScreen> what is the difference between ubuntu-laptop-mode y laptop-mode-tools packages?


[13:05] <cmaloney> JoDee (in her networking class) was trying to find out what layer TLS used
[13:05] <cmaloney> and found that it operates at several layers
[13:05] <cmaloney> (and found several different descriptions of which layers it worked at)
[13:05] <cmaloney> I quote: "Fuck the OSI model"
[13:30] <cmaloney> Also: Good morning
[13:46] <jrwren> good morning.
[13:46] <jrwren> cool mug topic. I remember Officer Liposky from when I was at Oakland.
[13:50] <cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, it should be interesting. :)
[14:07] <shakes808> morning
[14:07] <shakes808> cmaloney: yeah, I didn't enjoy my networking class either. interesting stuff. so interesting, i will let the network guys deal with it :)
[14:09] <jrwren> Most networking classes are pretty bad AFAIK.
[14:10] <jrwren> maybe we should run our own :)
[14:10] <shakes808> haha, I would sign up :)
[14:12] <jrwren> when you give a crazy emacs lover a phd, they do wicked shit like publish this junk: http://mjambon.github.io/vim-vs-emacs/
[14:14] <_stink_> haha!
[14:14] <_stink_> this is great.
[14:17] <_stink_> worth noting that the content involved here is prose plus figures/equations
[14:17] <_stink_> far different from code.
[14:18] <jrwren> _stink_: ya know, that is a really good point.
[14:19] <_stink_> not that my vim ego is hurt or anything. :)
[14:24] <jrwren> mine is. a bit.
[20:34] <smart> Hi Guys!
[20:34] <smart> Anyone?
[20:34] <brousch__> Me!
[20:34] <smart> OK
[20:35] <smart> Do you know if coffee house coders are geting together tonight and at what hour?
[20:36] <smart> I know that they are getting together in Royal Oak, but at what time?
[20:37] <smart> Hello!
[20:41] <cmaloney> Nice of them to wait
[20:51] <brousch__> heh