[14:33] <augu> what format should system tray (notification area) icons be? Mine keeps getting a black line below it like it's the wrong format.
[19:51] <slangasek> xnox: LP: #1694156 for great justice
[20:59] <slangasek> mdeslaur: is LP: #1694161 of interest to you?
[21:00] <gsilvapt> hello all. I want to use lxd to test snaps and other apps and make sure I'll not harm my system. however, it is not very clear how should I set things up.


[18:02] <Tm_T> hm
[18:02] <hggdh> #startmeeting IRC Team
[18:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Dec 17 18:02:29 2014 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[18:03] <hggdh> well. Welcome to another monthly meeting of the IRC Team. I do not expect much work today, so
[18:03] <hggdh> it should be fast...
[18:04] <hggdh> #chair Tm_T
[18:04] <meetingology> Current chairs: Tm_T hggdh
[18:04] <hggdh> #topic all: IRC team meeting in  4 minutes
[18:04] <hggdh> dammit
[18:04] <hggdh> #topic Review last meetings action items
[18:04] <hggdh> ah now it is better.
[18:05] <hggdh> I do not remember, or see, and pending items. Am I wrong?
[18:05] <Tm_T> sorry I'm bit out of the loop currently
[18:06] <hggdh> we move on
[18:06] <hggdh> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
[18:06] <hggdh> I myself do not have access to the IRCC tracker; one single item comes to my mind, though
[18:07] <hggdh> we opened nominations for the two available slots on the IRC Council, and we finally have (more than) enough candidates
[18:08] <hggdh> so I sent the list to the CC, and am now waiting on their feedback.
[18:08] <hggdh> As soon as I have it I intend to start the voting.
[18:08] <rww> \o/
[18:08] <Tm_T> I am also waiting to be able to start rallying people to vote for IRCC nominations (:
[18:09] <hggdh> heh
[18:09] <Tm_T> we really need more blood to our ranks
[18:09] <rww> oh, I had a question
[18:09] <hggdh> indeed. Preferably warm blood ;-)... we have been sort of out of circulation
[18:09] <hggdh> rww: please go ahead
[18:09] <rww> Are those slots going to be full-term positions, or replacement positions for the rest of the term of the people they're replacing
[18:10] <Tm_T> full term I hope
[18:10] <hggdh> I do not know. I would personally consider them full-term; I expect I will be corrected if needed.
[18:10] <hggdh> I will ask the CC about that
[18:10] <rww> I'd guess full-term, but figured someone should decide *before* the results for the avoidance of doubt
[18:10] <hggdh> rww: agree
[18:11] <hggdh> #action hggdh to verify length of term for the two slots
[18:11] <meetingology> ACTION: hggdh to verify length of term for the two slots
[18:11] <Pici> I am here now.
[18:11] <hggdh> #chair Pici
[18:11] <meetingology> Current chairs: Pici Tm_T hggdh
[18:11]  * Tm_T huggles Pici
[18:11] <Pici> (sorry, got distracted)
[18:11] <Pici> huzzah
[18:12] <hggdh> Any other point to be raised?
[18:12] <hggdh> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
[18:12] <Tm_T> biiig request at this point: let's have some calendar event for these IRCC meetings thad do have reminders
[18:12] <Tm_T> as I keep missing the meetings /:
[18:12] <hggdh> we only have one bug -- bug 892501
[18:13] <hggdh> we have had some work done on replacement bots, but I am not up-to-date on it. anyone present cares to enlighten us?
[18:14] <Pici> As I stated at the last meeting, we have unopaste right now, and Drone` is watching #ubuntu, but doesn't actually perform any actions based on what it sees.
[18:15] <Pici> Has anyone been paying attention to what it reports in -ops-monitor? Any concerns?
[18:15] <Unit193> (Slight correction: It watches: #ubuntustudio, #xubuntu, #kubuntu, #lubuntu, #ubuntu, and #ubuntu+1.)
[18:16] <Tm_T> I have reading it occasionally but honestly I don't think I'm qualified to judge it as I am so badly out of the loop in this matter
[18:16] <Tm_T> +been
[18:16]  * hggdh does not have access to -ops-monitor
[18:16] <rww> I don't have concerns about Drone`, personally.
[18:17] <hggdh> #topic review of the factoid review review
[18:17] <hggdh> I think we are going into too many reviews here
[18:17] <hggdh> any reason why we should be (re)visiting this?
[18:18] <Pici> hggdh: you have acccess now.
[18:18] <rww> i think that one can go off the agenda from now on
[18:18] <hggdh> Pici: ack, thank you
[18:18] <hggdh> rww: +1
[18:18] <Tm_T> +1 to rww
[18:19] <Pici> I agree.
[18:19]  * hggdh waits another 10 seconds...
[18:19] <hggdh> ok
[18:19] <hggdh> #topic Call for Operators
[18:20] <hggdh> we do not have an open call for operators, but we do have some people asking to join
[18:20] <hggdh> since I am not familiar with this piece of the game, I would rather pass the baton over to Tm_T or Pici
[18:21] <Tm_T> yay!
[18:21] <Tm_T> one moment
[18:21] <hggdh> (this, of course, is one of the reasons why I added both as chairs)
[18:22]  * hggdh is now, happily, an observer
[18:23] <Pici> hi, sorry, got up from my desk for a moment.
[18:23] <Tm_T> hggdh: where?
[18:23] <Pici> So, we have a few pending people on the list.  I think the ones who are already operators should be approved, but the others seem to be somewhat random.
[18:24] <Tm_T> aah
[18:24] <Tm_T> Pici: agreed
[18:24] <rww> fwiw, all of my op requests are because of troll activity that I was unable to stop because I wasn't opped at the time
[18:24] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/sTHCiu7Hpq54edInwajG/
[18:24] <Pici> Unit193: nice.
[18:26] <Pici> What do the numbers mean?
[18:26] <rww> launchpad karma
[18:26] <Pici> ah
[18:26] <Tm_T> +1 for Valorie and Robert, Popey looks suspicious so don't know about him
[18:26] <hggdh> po who?
[18:26] <Tm_T> maaaaaybe we can give him some rights too
[18:27] <Tm_T> hggdh: Alan Pope
[18:27] <rww> we could always give him access and then #blamepopey for everything
[18:27] <Tm_T> hggdh: and I'm joking (:
[18:27] <Tm_T> rww: true
[18:27] <hggdh> heh, I know, was just adding to your suspicion
[18:27] <Pici> I'll take care of the list for people who are already ops.
[18:27] <hggdh> Pici: thank you.
[18:28]  * popey ears prick up
[18:28] <Pici> #action Pici to update access lists from op requests
[18:28] <meetingology> ACTION: Pici to update access lists from op requests
[18:28] <Unit193> The #xubuntu applicant doesn't have his IRC nick listed, but I don't believe I know who that is anyway.
[18:28] <hggdh> For the others... can we get feedback in the ML for them? Positive, or negative, or neutral
[18:29] <hggdh> can we move on?
[18:30] <Pici> sure
[18:30] <hggdh> #topic Membership applications
[18:30] <hggdh> none. So. moving on
[18:30] <hggdh> #topic Any Other Business
[18:30] <hggdh> Unit193: I think you had something?
[18:30] <Unit193> Nothing this time.
[18:31] <hggdh> ok
[18:31] <hggdh> anybody has anything for here?
[18:31] <Pici> not I
[18:32] <teward> just an observation... if i may.
[18:32] <hggdh> teward: please go on
[18:32] <teward> (although a probably well known issue)
[18:32] <teward> there are times where the core channels (such as #ubuntu) are subject to higher levels of disruptive activities which affect all userbase
[18:32] <teward> such as last night, where there was a on-join CTCP bot sending CTCPs to users
[18:33] <teward> those timeperiods have a noted lack of operators - it wasn't until I hopped into -ops and identified an op who was 'available' to look at the issue that it got addressed
[18:33] <teward> whereas many individuals reported the issue in #ubuntu itself
[18:33] <teward> I would call upon the IRC team to investigate and identify such lull times in operator availability and look into potentially finding ops who can fill those time periods of heightened disruptivity with some monitoring
[18:34] <teward> (although this is not a recent issue, it has been present for a good bit of time)
[18:34] <teward> (and will likely be an issue into the foreseeable future)

[18:35] <Unit193> teward: So, you're done being done? ;)
[18:35] <teward> heh
[18:35] <hggdh> teward: ack. I am not sure how to deal with it, but we will discuss.
[18:36] <hggdh> any other AOB request?
[18:36] <hggdh> OK.
[18:36] <hggdh> #endmeeting
[18:36] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Dec 17 18:36:41 2014 UTC.
[18:36] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-12-17-18.02.moin.txt
[18:36] <teward> (note my timezone is GMT-5 if you want to get an accurate timereference, and it was late there, such as 21:00 and after)
[18:36] <Tm_T> teward: that's something we've been trying to solve for a long time, at the same time we cannot lower the requirements of #ubuntu ops really, as it is quite special channel
[18:36] <Pici> thanks hggdh
[18:36] <hggdh> thank you to all
[18:36] <Pici> :)
[18:37] <teward> Tm_T: indeed, it still stands to reason it's an issue that should still be looked into where possible :)
[18:37] <Unit193> Thanks, chairs!
[18:37] <Tm_T> teward: I totally agree (:
[18:37] <teward> (i only brought it up because as a bigger issue a CTCP bot throwing VERISON requests at users might be seeking exploitable clients)
[22:34] <cariboo907> join /#ubuntuforums-fc
[22:36] <cariboo907> #ubuntuforums-fc
[22:36] <sarnold> cariboo907: /join #ubuntuforums-fc   :)
[22:37] <cariboo907> thanks that worked.


[02:23] <user|88> what file to download for installing kubuntu on INTEL architecture
[02:36] <user|44> Hello, here is how I resolved my Broadcom 4360 wifi card not available in Kunbuntu.
[02:37] <user|44> First is my card seen: lshw -C network
[02:38] <user|44> Second: sudo apt-get install bcmwl-kernel-source
[02:38] <user|44> and it worked
[03:03] <tomreyn> user|88: the amd64 installer
[05:52] <Guest2619> hi
[05:52] <Guest2619> is any body there
[05:53] <arraybolt3> o/
[05:53] <arraybolt3> How can we help you?
 how to boot usb pendrive
[06:17] <arraybolt3> @Abu: Assuming the drive is bootable, usually you start by shutting your system down entirely, inserting the USB drive, then turning the system on and pressing a special key during early bootup to get to a boot menu. Then you select your USB drive in the boot menu and it boots.
[06:17] <arraybolt3> Exactly which key you'll need will vary depending on your system's manufacturer, however many systems will tell you a key you can press to get to special options when the system is first booting.
[06:17] <arraybolt3> If you don't see those options, you can Google how to get into your system's boot menu. A lot of times the Esc key will work.
 how to boot a iso file
[06:18] <arraybolt3> @Abu: Start by flashing the file to the drive using a tool like balenaEtcher, then boot the USB drive.
[06:18] <arraybolt3> (You can boot an ISO file directly using GRUB but that's probably not what you want to do.)
 create a bootable usb pendrive
 balenaetcher not work (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> @Abu: Start by flashing the file to the drive using a tool like balenaEtcher, then boot the USB drive.)
 any other
 for booting windows iso file
[06:20] <arraybolt3> @Abu: If Etcher isn't working, that indicates that the problem is somewhere else. Etcher just writes the file directly to the drive (as opposed to copying it to a filesystem on the drive), which is the correct way to make a bootable flash drive with a Kubuntu ISO.
[06:20] <arraybolt3> Oh. If you're trying to make a bootable Windows USB from within Kubuntu, look into WoeUSB.
[06:20] <arraybolt3> https://github.com/WoeUSB/WoeUSB
 thank u so much
[06:21] <arraybolt3> Windows ISO files require special handling to make them bootable, which balenaEtcher can't do. WoeUSB can do it.
 Hi
[06:21] <arraybolt3> *to make them into bootable flash drives
[06:21] <arraybolt3> @Omar: o/
 Is there a way to shrink my kubuntu partition without losing data other than gparted?
 Hii how are u? (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> @Omar: o/)
[06:22] <arraybolt3> @Omar: Not too bad, though pretty tired.
[06:22] <arraybolt3> @Omar: It depends on what filesystem you're using - I assume you're just using the default, ext4?
[06:22] <arraybolt3> @Omar: KDE Partition Manager is able to shrink partitions, however ext4 can only be shrunk while unmounted, so you'll have to boot from a live USB or something similar in order to shrink the Kubuntu partition.
 Yeah (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> @Omar: It depends on what filesystem you're using - I assume you're just using the default, ext4?)
[06:23] <arraybolt3> It's also possible to shrink partitions from the command line but that's difficult and possibly dangerous - I'd start by using KDE Partitio nManager, which should be included by default on the Kubuntu ISO.
[06:23] <arraybolt3> FOr best results, use the same Kubuntu ISO as the version of Kubuntu you have installed on the system.
 a nap will help (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> @Omar: Not too bad, though pretty tired.)
[06:23] <arraybolt3> @Omar: Heh, right? I just moved two sewing machines a bit ago so :P
 So i have to install kubuntu on a usb? (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> @Omar: KDE Partition Manager is able to shrink partitions, however ext4 can only be shrunk while unmounted, so you'll have to boot from a live USB or something similar in order to shrink the Kubuntu partition.)
 Ok (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> FOr best results, use the same Kubuntu ISO as the version of Kubuntu you have installed on the system.)
[06:25] <arraybolt3> @Omar: Just using a bootable Kubuntu USB will work - you can use a tool like balenaEtcher to flash the Kubuntu ISO to a USB drive.
[06:25] <arraybolt3> (There's also a USB creator built into Kubuntu that may work, but I personally would prefer using balenaEtcher.
 Ok I will try it (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> @Omar: Just using a bootable Kubuntu USB will work - you can use a tool like balenaEtcher to flash the Kubuntu ISO to a USB drive.)
 Yrah start up disk creater (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3> (There's also a USB creator built into Kubuntu that may work, but I personally would prefer using balenaEtcher.)
 Creator*
 So i'll preaa try kubuntu then shrink the partition right?
 So i'll press try kubuntu then shrink the partition right?
[06:39] <arraybolt3> That should work.
[06:39] <arraybolt3> @Omar: Beofre you do the shrink though!
[06:39] <arraybolt3> @Omar: Back up your data!
[06:40] <arraybolt3> @Omar: Sometimes partition shrinks can go wrong for no particular reason and eat your data in the process.
[06:40] <arraybolt3> *Mefore you do the shrink though, back up your data!
[06:40] <arraybolt3> *Before
[06:40] <arraybolt3> OK, I can't type, goodbye and see you when my fingers work again :P
[06:40] <arraybolt3> (jk)
 😂😂😂 Ok thank you
 Stuck here : https://irc-attachments.kde.org/e8cb3dc2/file_63654.jpg
[06:49] <arraybolt3> @Omar: That's normal I believe.
[06:49] <arraybolt3> @Omar: It's probably shuffling around data so that it can shrink things safely. Just give it time.
 I almost have a heart attack
 Ah it is over thank god
[06:53] <arraybolt3> @Omar: Filesystems don't necessarily put all data at the start of the drive, so it makes sense that it would have to move stuff to be able to shrink the partition. But this is why you should back up your files before messing with your partitions.
[06:53] <arraybolt3> Nice.
 + why i dont have hibernate mode
[07:09] <user_> l
 Why do i have 5 of ubuntu and two of fedora? : https://irc-attachments.kde.org/7d42618c/file_63655.jpg
[07:33] <guiverc[m]> IrcsomeBot: should you need to boot using an older kernel (due to regression etc), you have that option available... It's available on most GNU/Linux systems, thus you see it offered by both Fedora (the 2) & Ubuntu (the 5).
[07:33] <guiverc[m]> The number increased number 5 either relates to your package choices (eg. multiple kernel stacks installed increases number kept) OR lack of maintenance etc..  (I can't read the text clearly to give reason sorry)
[07:35] <oerheks> never seen a kernel available as normal and rescue, double
 Can just show the 3 os(kubuntu, fedora, windows ) and remove the other options? (re @IrcsomeBot: <guiverc[m]> IrcsomeBot: should you need to boot using an older kernel (due to regression etc), you have that option available... It's available on most GNU/Linux systems, thus you see it offered by both Fedora (the 2) & Ubuntu (the 5).)
 There are 3 ubuntu with the same kernel (re @Omar: )
[07:41] <oerheks> no, 2 kernels, double instance.
[07:41] <oerheks> tell us how you did that?
 Did what (re @IrcsomeBot: <oerheks> tell us how you did that?)
[07:44] <guiverc> sorry Omar, I don't see the picture here on my IRC client & can't read my other matrix client so can't read the version detail
 Theer are three of linux kernel <IP_ADDRESS>-generic (re @IrcsomeBot: <guiverc> sorry Omar, I don't see the picture here on my IRC client & can't read my other matrix client so can't read the version detail)
[07:46] <oerheks> Three ? 3? i see only 2.
 Yeah 2 im sorry
 What is this recovery mode?
[09:34] <oerheks> !recovery
[09:34] <oerheks> you ask questions that are so easy to find...
[13:24] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 Hello kubuntu. I need some help. Wayland crashed. I was able to use the magic sysreq key to get to a terminal, but now I’m not sure how to recover. I’d prefer to learn how to get back to a working state than to simply REISUB.  So I think this is clean and functioning now
 Добрый день!
[21:50] <user|66> Witam
[21:51] <user|66> Or hello :)


[00:00] <idyle> penguin42/blueskaj: was a brother wireless printer -- but furthermore my kde control panel printer module is totally busted: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/331192
[00:02] <BluesKaj> idyle, have you updated lately ? the kde printer GUIs are ok now , dunno about gnome tho
[00:02] <idyle> blueskaj: just did a full-upgrade but I have 8 broken packages, googling how to fix that one now
[00:03] <nemo> hm. could be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/411574 too
[00:03] <nemo> guess I'll just watch both and hope
[00:03] <idyle> blueskaj: nope, still broken
[00:04] <BluesKaj> in system settings, idyle ?
[00:05] <idyle> blueskaj: yes, kde system settings -> printers gives the error described in that bug by "Tyler"
[00:06] <BluesKaj> which kde version idyle ?
[00:06] <idyle> blueskaj: how to detect the version?
[00:08] <idyle> kde4 --version gives me nothing
[00:09] <BluesKaj> just open konqueror or dolphin /help/about kde
[00:10] <idyle> blueskaj: 4.3.00
[00:11] <BluesKaj> hmm that's odd , my system settings/printer config GUI is opening
[00:11] <BluesKaj> maybe a reboot is in order, if you just updated , idyle
[00:12] <EagleScreen_> to configure printers, you can use the web interface of CUPS: http://localhost:631/admin
[00:12] <BluesKaj> EagleScreen_, have you ever actually tried to use that app ?
[00:13] <EagleScreen_> which app?
[00:13] <BluesKaj> well ok wrong choice of words
[00:14] <penguin42> EagleScreen_: That web interface is pretty grim
[00:14] <BluesKaj> and old
[00:14] <EagleScreen_> I think it shoud work
[00:15] <EagleScreen_> it is not much harder than systemconfig-printer-kde
[00:16] <penguin42> EagleScreen_: Yeuch - surely not
[00:17] <EagleScreen_> printer auto-detection and other stuff is inherit from this service
[00:25] <penguin42> hmm, no need to worry about location aware browsing then - geolocation thinks I'm in London
[00:29] <BluesKaj> westminster ?
[00:33] <penguin42> well, I didn't look for detail - but to be fair I didn't check which
[00:34] <BluesKaj> penguin42, cuz neotrace shows westminster uk
[00:35] <penguin42> I can believe it; it's just central london - and I'm a couple of hundred miles from there
[00:37] <BluesKaj> yeah sometimes mine shows Ottawa , Toronto and places in between
[00:38] <BluesKaj> I'm 250mi from toronto and 400 mi from ottawa :)
[00:45] <rebgil> Hi I just did an upgrade from jaunty to karmic and now I get errors in update manager when trying to remove install pdns-recursor, I have tried remove --force=yes any other suggestions on how to remove pdns-recursor from my system?
[02:18] <stlsaint> hey does karmic use GNU Grub?
[02:18] <Dr_Willis> It can
[02:18] <Dr_Willis> Grub2 on a clean install..
[02:19] <Dr_Willis> grublegacy on a upgrade
[02:19] <stlsaint> ok i ran a clean install on a vm...that should run GRUB2 right?
[02:19] <Dr_Willis> Should be using grub2 on a 'new' install. yes
[02:19] <Dr_Willis> it did use grub2 here
[02:20] <stlsaint> well i read the manual on gnu grub and it said that grub.cfg is the "new" menu.lst
[02:20] <stlsaint> but on my vm i still run everything from menu.lst
[02:21] <Dr_Willis> if you did a clean/new install.. there would of been no menu.lst
[02:22] <Dr_Willis> more /etc/grub.d/README
[02:24] <stlsaint> oh yea im doing it right now....menu.lst and at boot up grub says gnu grub version 1.96 i think it is
[02:25] <Dr_Willis> sounds like you some how got grub 1 installed...
[02:25] <Dr_Willis> I dont have a /boot/grub/menu.lst
[02:27] <stlsaint> is there a cmd to see what grub im using
[02:31] <Dr_Willis> never noticed such a command.. or needed one. :)
[02:31] <Dr_Willis> update-grub might give some info.
[02:34] <stlsaint> yea i restarted and it said gnu grub
[02:34] <Dr_Willis> the default grub menu on this box is 'grey/mono' colored i noticed..
[02:34] <Dr_Willis> thats grub2
[02:37] <stlsaint> man im sorry...im stupid...i was looking at my sources list by mistake and talking about something else...multi-tasking gone wrong...sorry again.
[02:38] <stlsaint> now im looking for grub.cfg
[02:42] <nemo> ugh
[02:42] <Dr_Willis> theres some grub files you do NOT manually edit any more
[02:42] <nemo> switching between windows is enough to screw up pulseaudio on this machine
[02:42] <Dr_Willis> more /etc/grub.d/README
[02:42] <nemo> causing 100% cpu useage in SDL game and sound crawling
[02:43] <Dr_Willis> grub2 basics -> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1195275
[02:43] <Dr_Willis> , grub.cfg is not meant to be edited.
[02:44] <stlsaint> so what do you edit than
[02:44] <nemo> of course, pulseaudio has been screwed up pretty consistently
[02:44] <nemo> ibex/jaunty/karmic
[02:44] <nemo> but is especially bad right now :(
[02:49] <Khronos> anyone else here have a STAC 9228 and use an external mic?
[02:49] <Khronos> STAC = Sigmatel
[02:51] <bjsnider> no wonder dtchen isn't in here so often, with all of you badmouthing pulseaudio so much
[02:52] <Khronos> well, I've been having trouble with an external mic in karmic
[02:52] <Khronos> I'm confused between all the settings with alsaconf and gnome-settings manager
[02:52] <Khronos> the internal mic works fine
[02:53] <bjsnider> if it's been screwed up for you for the past 4 distros, your sound hardware is junk. absolute garbage
[02:53] <Khronos> no
[02:53] <Khronos> it's new
[02:53] <Khronos> the problem is new I think
[02:53] <bjsnider> well, there are lots of people whining about junk hardware not working right. it's junk, that's why it doesn't work right. go out and buy something good.
[02:57] <Khronos> heh
[02:58] <nemo> Khronos: ah. I ahve a similar card, haven't tried mic yet, but it is generally screwed up
[03:00] <Khronos> hmmm
[03:00] <nemo> SigmaTel STAC9227
[03:01] <nemo> 18:42 < nemo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/400682
[03:01] <nemo> 18:43 < nemo> that's probably me :-/
[03:01] <nemo> 19:03 < nemo> hm. could be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/411574 too
[03:01] <nemo> 19:03 < nemo> guess I'll just watch both and hope
[03:02] <nemo> I'd swear pulseaudio has gotten worse in each release with this sound card :(
[03:02] <nemo> more and more unusable
[03:02] <Khronos> I have sound, it's just the external mic
[03:02] <Khronos> unless I fried it when I was doing experiments yesterday
[03:02] <Khronos> which would be bad
[03:03] <Khronos> I might've accidentally passed 12 volts through it for a very short time
[03:03] <Khronos> but it wasn't working anyway
[03:03] <Khronos> no, I don't think that's the problem
[03:03] <nemo> 'k
[03:03] <nemo> symptoms don't quite match mine, but then, looks like driver in general is not in good shape
[03:04] <Khronos> it says "1 output, 1 input"
[03:04] <Khronos> it should say, "1 output, 2 inputs"
[03:04] <Khronos> so it's the driver
[03:05] <Khronos> and when I look at the codec it says something like it's not there
[03:05] <Khronos> Misc = NO_PRESENCE
[03:05] <Khronos> no presents for me :(
[03:07] <Khronos> this was a really old battery
[03:07] <Khronos> so I don't think it got damaged
[03:07] <Khronos> at least a year old
[03:07] <nemo> I've been putting up with half an hour of hellish sound in this game
[03:07] <Khronos> static?
[03:07] <nemo> 'cause if I kill pulseaudio, the SDL game will crash
[03:07] <nemo> no. playing about one fragment of sound per second
[03:07] <andresmujica> nemo, kronos, i don't really now which is your problem, but i recently was triaging a bug with your codec, so maybe the workaround can be useful https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=4665
[03:07] <nemo> while maxing out CPU on one core
[03:08] <peeps> i am unable to start gnome keyboard shortcuts.  are others having this problem?
[03:09] <nemo> Khronos: this happens pretty much every time I tab out of the game window.
[03:09] <nemo> sound stutters. sometimes doesn't recover
[03:09] <nemo> no clue why, but, yeah, pulseaudio has been teh suck for me
[03:12] <Khronos> this is perhaps unworkable. I'm going go try linux from a VM
[03:12] <Khronos> bbiab
[03:13] <nemo> andresmujica: can't access that bug BTW
[03:13] <nemo> I get a front page
[03:13] <nemo> in w3m
[03:13] <andresmujica> click on guest session
[03:13] <nemo> ah
[03:15] <nemo> I sympathise w/ the decent soundcard thing. actually, I should just move my SB32 card from 10y ago out of my server and into this dell that I bought to support their linux program
[03:15] <nemo> apparently cheap 10y/o HW can still outperform intel pos onboard chips
[03:15] <nemo> hm. wonder if I can move the sound card w/o shutting the server down
[03:15] <bjsnider> if it isn't junk hardware, it's an alsa driver that's an absolute piece of dreck
[03:16] <bjsnider> you can't hot-swap a pci card
[03:16] <nemo> well. dunno who to blame, but I do know my sound experience in ubuntu has been worse and worse with each release
[03:16] <nemo> I leave it on pulseaudio for purposes of supporting ubuntu users
[03:16] <nemo> otherwise I'd rip that out
[03:16] <nemo> alrighty. lets see if the game behaves better since the openal rewrite in .12
[03:18] <nemo> can't reproduce bug
[03:18] <nemo> so I guess it is SDL + pulseaudio
[03:18] <nemo> (again)
[03:20] <nemo> although even without that issue, my pulseaudio is clearly pretty mucked up
[03:23] <bjsnider> i can tell you dtchen is using a usb m-audio device
[03:40] <ShapeShifter499> hi
[03:40] <ShapeShifter499> before I do anything like more updates, I want to know, I just updated to karmic 9.10 for powepc now why are all the repo lines I have point to jaunty?
[03:42] <nemo> ShapeShifter499: were you using pinning in jaunty by any chance?
[03:42] <ShapeShifter499> I'm sorry "pinning"?
[03:42] <nemo> guess not
[03:42] <nemo> dunno then :)
[03:42] <ShapeShifter499> I just did a fresh reinstall of jaunty
[03:43] <ShapeShifter499> than I updated to karic
[03:43] <ShapeShifter499> *karmic
[03:45] <ShapeShifter499> ok I'm going to reinstall again, before I do, what is better? installing jaunty than upgrade to karmic OR download karmic iso for powerpc arch and then do a fresh install with karmic?
[03:46] <stlsaint> well xchat works just fine in vm glad to see
[03:48] <stlsaint> hey how do you install guest addtionals under karmic in vbox
[03:55] <bjsnider> mount the iso image, run the install script from the command line
[03:55] <bjsnider> the iso is in /usr/share/virtualbox
[03:59] <billybigrigger> ShapeShifter499: fresh install is always better
[04:02] <ShapeShifter499> ok.....and I can mix and match packages from diffrent builds of ubuntu right? (ie 8.04 ibm-java installed on 9.10)
[04:03] <alteregoa> yeah, married wifes are less comfortable
[04:03] <billybigrigger> umm no
[04:03] <billybigrigger> @ ShapeShifter499
[04:03] <ShapeShifter499> ?
[04:03] <alteregoa> they tend to get mad
[04:03] <ShapeShifter499> why?
[04:04] <alteregoa> because they are not updateable
[04:05] <alteregoa> i updated from dapper to karmic
[04:05] <ShapeShifter499> but wouldn't they be update able if I included the repo the package(s) are on?
[04:10] <ShapeShifter499> what I'm saying is, what if I wanted to install a package that worked(say ibm-java 1.6) and it was only available on medibuntu repo 8.04, its ok to install if it seems to not mess with other packages and if my current system is at a latter ubuntu distro(say 9.10)?
[04:19] <alteregoa> download the tarball with the dependencies
[04:19] <alteregoa> burp
[04:20] <alteregoa> burp landgasker
[04:21] <ShapeShifter499> gbgbgt6bttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt7yb
[04:21] <ShapeShifter499> mml .gn
[04:21] <ShapeShifter499>  .v
[04:22] <ShapeShifter499> opps
[04:22] <alteregoa> is this a new programming language?
[04:22] <ShapeShifter499> sorry
[04:22] <ShapeShifter499> wrong window
[04:22] <alteregoa> looks like microsoft c# in year 2030
[04:23] <ShapeShifter499> lol
[04:35] <Walker__> Can someone help me get Ubuntu 9.10 onto Fedora 11's boot list?
[04:36] <Walker__> Onto the GRUB boot list
[04:40] <AnxiousNut> currently it alpha 4 right?
[04:41] <hggdh> still, yes
[04:42] <Walker__> *Cough*
[04:42] <Walker__> Can someone help me get Ubuntu onto the GRUB boot list?
[05:01] <leaf-sheep> No. Clearly you have something more important than Ubuntu to tender to... like your illness. (Because you coughed).
[05:32] <bjsnider> why didn't fedora pick it up automatically?
[06:16] <MindVirus2> Hello. Does anyone have problems getting their iPod recognized?
[06:22] <stlsaint> on what system
[06:22] <stlsaint> distro...
[06:22] <stlsaint> MindVirus2, ?
[06:23] <MindVirus2> Pardon.
[06:23] <MindVirus2> On Karmic, duh. :)
[06:23] <MindVirus2> My iPod is recognized as a USB device.
[06:23] <MindVirus2> Instead of as a media player.
[06:24] <stlsaint> do you have pics on it
[06:24] <stlsaint> and what kind of ipod are we talking
[06:26] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: I'm sorry; I am not paying attention to my client. Could you please highlight? Sorry, again.
[06:26] <MindVirus2> I have an iPod Nano 4G 16GB.
[06:26] <MindVirus2> No pictures AFAIK.
[06:28] <stlsaint> i know amarok is ipod compatible...what program are you using...
[06:28] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: it's not a program. On my desktop it is shown as a USB device.
[06:28] <MindVirus2> Rhythmbox has no problem reading it anyways.
[06:31] <stlsaint> do you have ibgpod/GTKpod installed
[06:32] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: I do.
[06:33] <stlsaint> sorry not familar with nano's whats the generation you have
[06:34] <MindVirus2> 4G.
[06:38] <stlsaint> is libgpod updated
[06:40] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: I keep my packages up-to-date daily.
[06:40] <stlsaint> type libgpod into repos and see what you have installed...there are a few there that dont come installed by default that you may need to install
[06:40] <stlsaint> ie..library's
[06:40] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: this changed as soon as I got alpha of karmic.
[06:41] <stlsaint> also have you changed the way amarok or banshee or whatever program you use "see's" the ipod
[06:42] <MindVirus2> No.
[06:44] <stlsaint> ok which program do you want to use...banshee or amarok
[06:45] <MindVirus2> ...
[06:45] <MindVirus2> Quite a variety you got there.
[06:45] <stlsaint> yea well these two are your best bets
[06:45] <MindVirus2> No. They're not.
[06:46] <MindVirus2> Actually, Banshee failed to read my iPod. Rhythmbox does not.
[06:46] <MindVirus2> (Does not fail, that is.)
[06:46] <MindVirus2> Rhythmbox is lighter and faster than Banshee, as well as better-supported.
[06:46] <stlsaint> thats y i ask if you changed the ipod options within banshee so that it can read and if you had all ipod libs up to date
[06:47] <MindVirus2> ....
[06:47] <MindVirus2> I don't use Banshee.
[06:47] <MindVirus2> I can listen to my music fine.
[06:47] <MindVirus2> Ubuntu fails to recognize it as an iPod.
[06:47] <MindVirus2> Not my music player.
[06:47] <MindVirus2> Ubuntu.
[06:48] <MindVirus2> It won't auto-load Rhythmbox for me and instead opens it as if it was a USB drive.
[06:48] <stlsaint> oh ok...well ubuntu isnt going to read it as a ipod...thats what rythmbox is there for
[06:48] <peepsalot> every time i go to shutdown or restart, I get a message that programs are still running, and it shows nautilus four times, "deleting files" x3, and one "copying files".  any ideas what is causing this?
[06:49] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: Dude, do you know what you're saying?
[06:49] <MindVirus2> I'm sorry, I don't mean to be a dick.
[06:49] <stlsaint> well you didnt give me exactly what the problem was till now...this whole time i thought you was unable to function with the ipod period...not that ubuntu mounted it as a usb device
[06:50] <MindVirus2> When you plug a media player into your computer, in Ubuntu, an icon appears on your desktop telling you that the media has been auto-mounted.
[06:50] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: I feel that I've been fairly verbose.
[06:50] <stlsaint> yes i know i too do this
[06:50] <stlsaint> yes you have with your last explanation...
[06:50] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: Good. When you look at it, it shows an icon verifying that it is a media player.
[06:50] <MindVirus2> When you plug a USB drive, it shows a USB drive.
[06:50] <MindVirus2> Ubuntu shows me that my iPod is a USB drive.
[06:50] <MindVirus2> So it treats it like one, instead of as a media player.
[06:51] <MindVirus2> So it doesn't automatically open Rhythmbox.
[06:51] <stlsaint> let me hook mine up to karmic and see as i usually use jaunty...so we can be on the same page...
[06:52] <stlsaint> plus i use karmic in a vm so it might be slightly different
[06:53] <kazagistarr> ebox packages are really out of sync
[06:55] <stlsaint> MindVirus2, ok i have a ipod touch and it mounts as a camera...
[06:55] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: we're on the same page then.
[06:56] <kazagistarr> oh, and Empathy is really bad compared to pidgin
[06:56] <stlsaint> kazagistarr, yes pidgin is better IMO
[06:57] <kazagistarr> is there some way to read the channel message in Empathy?
[06:57] <stlsaint> MindVirus2, did it only do this in karmic
[06:57] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: yes.
[06:57] <stlsaint> kazagistarr, sorry not a empathy user
[06:57] <MindVirus2> kazagistarr, stlsaint: Nobody cares. They're going to use it anyways. I agree with you two though.
[06:58] <MindVirus2> Empathy is the default client in Karmic.
[06:58] <kazagistarr> could you send me the topic really quick, at least :P?
[06:59] <MindVirus2> (01:59:22 AM) current topic is: Welcome to the Ubuntu Karmic Koala (9.10) discussion channel | Karmic is NOT RELEASED and may break your system - LVM users should avoid 2.6.31-7.27-generic (#418514, fixed in -8.28-) | Schedule https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule | Please join #ubuntu for all other support questions | Alpha 4 Released: www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha4 | 100 Papercuts: http://u.nu/9gvu
[07:00] <stlsaint> good ol cut and paste
[07:01] <MindVirus2> Amazing that Empathy doesn't have it built-in.
[07:02] <stlsaint> MindVirus2, ok if you right click the desktop icon you can change the icon for it if you have a custom to choose from
[07:02] <MindVirus2> I don't want to change the icon.
[07:02] <MindVirus2> I want Ubuntu to open Rhythmbox automatically, like I have it set.
[07:02] <MindVirus2> I told Ubuntu to autoload Rhythmbox for any media player.
[07:02] <stlsaint> and when you plug it up and karmic as you what to do you can have it auto mount to rythmbox
[07:03] <stlsaint> i just did it...but with banshee
[07:03] <stlsaint> just select other program>rythmbox>add> and select the check box to do this automatically
[07:04] <stlsaint> kazagistarr, you said ebox packages are out of sync...care to explain what you mean by ebox out of sync?
[07:05] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: No.
[07:05] <MindVirus2> I cannot.
[07:05] <MindVirus2> Because Ubuntu loads it as a USB drive.
[07:05] <stlsaint> when you connect it for the first time you dont get a box asking you to open with a program
[07:05] <stlsaint> ?
[07:06] <MindVirus2> No.
[07:06] <aboSamoor> does anyone knows what is supposed to happen with bug 419264 ?
[07:06] <MindVirus2> Why does ubuntu-desktop depend on cups?
[07:06] <aboSamoor> the upstream released th fix, but not yet in compiz
[07:07] <MindVirus2> It should most certainly not.
[07:07] <stlsaint> well i must be honest im not sure what the issue is at this point...you said you had all libs/gtk updated and installed then im at a loss right now
[07:07] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: welcome to the club.
[07:08] <MindVirus2> Nice to have some company.
[07:08] <kazagistarr> MindVirus2: ubuntu desktop depends on everything a default ubuntu system should ship with, right?
[07:08] <aboSamoor> it is targeted to alpha-6 ! should I wait till 17/9 ?
[07:08] <kazagistarr> I mean, printers are a good thing to have for most people
[07:08] <MindVirus2> kazagistarr: no; a default Ubuntu system ships with ubuntu-desktop recommends as well as depends.
[07:08] <MindVirus2> cups should be under recommends.
[07:09] <kazagistarr> ah, right, I see
[07:09] <MindVirus2> depends should only be for things that Ubuntu depends on.
[07:09] <MindVirus2> Now I'm stuck with this fucking cups daemon.
[07:09] <MindVirus2> Which I don't even need.
[07:09] <MindVirus2> I hate it when my system has cruft.
[07:13] <stlsaint> MindVirus2, you have given me something to trouble shoot...my ipod touch is not read by karmic...i must further figure this out
[07:13] <MindVirus2> stlsaint: tell me if you find anything. I'm too lazy to have any initiative.
[07:14] <stlsaint> alright...i last heard the touch was having little to no support...guess ill find out for sure now
[07:25] <stlsaint> night all
[07:29] <peepsalot> my fonts are displaying all weird.  some of the letters look to be tinted purple and it's starting to hurt my eyes.
[07:56] <peepsalot> i found out I had subpixel smoothing turned on, that stuff drives me bonkers.  don't know how anyone could possibly stand that.  all your letters showing in crazy hues
[07:57] <hifi> I always disable the new font rendering on ubuntu
[07:57] <hifi> it's just killing my eyes, I need sharp fonts
[08:04] <peepsalot> I ended up doing "Grayscale smoothing" and "Full hinting", and it looks so much better.
[08:04] <peepsalot> hifi do you know how hinting works?  vs smoothing?
[08:20] <nzmm> i like ubuntu fonts ... my 0.02
[08:21] <hifi> peepsalot: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/blag/ubuntu-fonts/ I use this
[08:30] <dpic_> what's IBus?
[08:33] <MindVirus2> dpic_: apt-cache show ibus
[09:52] <edoceo> anyone know how often new stuff is pushed to the Karmic repos?
[09:57] <richardcavell> edoceo: every day
[09:58] <edoceo> multiple times per day?
[09:58] <richardcavell> yes, sometimes
[09:58] <edoceo> It seems there's some things in the AM (for me) and some later, still some later as well.
[09:58] <richardcavell> yep
[09:58] <edoceo> can't wait for new audio-manager in xfce!  Thanks!
[10:03] <nhasian> hey guys, i must have about 30 packages held back, is it safe to do a dist-upgrade?  i'm concerned about the nvidia and kernel stuff.  dont want it to bork my system :)
[10:17] <AlanBell> morning
[10:17] <AlanBell> I am having complaints from the kids that their karmic box locks up after just a few minutes on the web playing flash based games
[10:18] <AlanBell> I can still ssh to it and restart it
[10:18] <AlanBell> the mouse moves, but X does not otherwise respond, cant move windows or see any movement
[10:18] <AlanBell> anyone else seeing this?
[10:30] <nhasian> AlanBell, i have not experienced that
[10:31] <nhasian> AlanBell, is it 32bit or 64bit?
[10:34] <AlanBell> 32 bit
[10:34] <nhasian> how much ram?
[10:38] <AlanBell> 512
[10:38] <AlanBell> just trying to reproduce it myself
[10:38] <nhasian> i think thats the issue
[10:39] <AlanBell> oh, actually it has a gig
[10:39] <nhasian> ah okay, thats better.
[10:39] <nhasian> firefox can eat up 300 or 500 megs of ram easily
[10:39] <AlanBell> it is an old P4 1.8
[10:39] <MindVirus1> I'm not getting any sound.
[10:41] <jml> I've just plugged my new ipod into my laptop and opened up banshee. it doesn't seem to show up at all
[10:42] <jml> how can I find out what's going on?
[10:43] <MindVirus1> jml: I have the same problem.
[10:43] <MindVirus1> jml: Ubuntu isn't recognizing your iPod as an iPod; it just sees it as a USB drive.
[10:43] <MindVirus1> Banshee won't play from USB drives.
[10:43] <jml> I see.
[10:43] <jml> MindVirus1, do you know of a bug report I can look at?
[10:44] <MindVirus1> jml: this is all speculation, BTW. Take a look at your desktop and tell me what icon your iPod uses.
[10:44] <jml> MindVirus1, it's a drive icon.
[10:44] <MindVirus1> As opposed to an iPod icon, yes?
[10:45] <MindVirus1> jml: ^^
[10:45] <jml> MindVirus1, yes.
[10:45] <MindVirus1> jml: We have the exact same problem.
[10:46] <MindVirus1> My firm belief (though I could be mistaken (but I'm not)) is that Ubuntu fails to recognize your iPod as an iPod. I don't have any bug reports, but if you find one or make one, link me.
[10:47] <MindVirus1> jml: if you'll notice, any autorun behavior you configured Ubuntu to perform when you insert a media player does not work; instead, it behaves like a USB drive.
[10:47] <AlanBell> I can't reproduce the lockup
[10:47] <AlanBell> but my kids can
[10:47] <nhasian> probably the crappy flash games hehe
[10:47] <AlanBell> I think it must be a site specific issue with moshimonsters.com
[10:47] <jml> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/podsleuth/+bug/382941 and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/podsleuth/+bug/139226 seem promising
[10:48] <MindVirus1> jml: excellent.
[10:48] <AlanBell> I can play bbc iplayer for 10 minutes no problem
[10:50] <MindVirus1> No sound. Can I get some help?
[10:51] <MindVirus1> Sorry.
[10:51] <MindVirus1> Muted. :X
[10:51] <AlanBell> wow, hand it over to a kid for 30 seconds and she produces a full corrupt screen X crash
[10:53] <AlanBell> I can kill firefox remotely
[10:54] <AlanBell> and when I kill X remotely my ssh session dies
[10:58] <Daviey> AlanBell: how did you kill X, sudo reboot? :)
[10:58] <neko> eh doing an upgrade from jaunty now...
[10:59] <AlanBell> Daviey: nope, ssh in, ps|grep X then kill the pid
[10:59] <neko> just did a fresh install; only did dist-upgrade after enabling all sources, and added like 8 small packages - htop nmap etc
[10:59] <neko> :D
[10:59]  * neko prays to GNU/Linux godz
[11:00] <jussi01> Does the microblogging app on the plasma desktop do twitter? if so, does anyone know how to set it up?
[11:05] <Daviey> AlanBell: that is weird.. is ssh avaliable afterwards?
[11:06] <Daviey> AlanBell: does it do the same if you /etc/init.d/gdm restart?
[11:07] <AlanBell> ssh isn't available afterwards
[11:07] <AlanBell> and gdm restart does the same
[11:07] <AlanBell> and it can't be reproduced without the assistance of an 8 year old
[11:08] <Daviey> heh
[11:08] <Daviey> AlanBell: i wonder if "sudo dhclient3" makes ssh work again.. but i wonder if you can get the 8 year old to run this :)
[11:11] <AlanBell> Daviey: can't do anything with the local machine apart from move the mouse
[11:12] <AlanBell> can't do ctrl+alt+F1
[11:12] <neko>  use the special key combos to restart
[11:13] <neko> sysreset or w/e
[11:13] <Daviey> AlanBell: ah
[11:13] <Daviey> sounds like it is in a really bad way
[11:13] <AlanBell> I used the big red switch
[11:21] <neko> mm wants to remove a few... ::worries:: ::does it::
[11:36] <virtuald> anyone seen tracker constantly use >75%, mostly >95% cpu?
[11:52] <alankila> yeah, tracker... I have seen it spend a lot of CPU actually. Since it never worked (constantly churned the disk, but never found a single document when I tried to search anything with it) I uninstalled it myself. That was a good 6 months ago, though, but it sounds typical to me.
[11:53] <virtuald> it used to work for me
[11:55] <alankila> trackerd has been removed from ubuntu-desktop anyways, so you don't get it on fresh installs I guess
[11:55] <virtuald> heh, apport-gtk crashed when i tried ubuntu-bug `pidof trackerd`
[11:56] <virtuald> oh
[11:56] <virtuald> i didn't know that
[11:56] <alankila> and when apport crashes, maybe it tries to report a crash against itself and crashes and ...
[11:56] <virtuald> it seems to work collecting info about itself crashing
[11:57]  * alankila hates apport: it takes like a minute to start and makes a bad, annoying experience worse: instead of just a software crashing there's intense disk churning to make the recovery even more sluggish.
[11:57] <virtuald> "You have some obsolete package versions installed"---
[11:58] <kklimonda> alankila: not really - it's supposed to help developers fix bugs. that's what you sign for using development releases.
[11:58] <alankila> usually after finishing a day's work I find 2-3 apport windows underneath the other windows, mostly about dead flash players. Hah.
[11:59] <alankila> kklimonda: right, but the tool could be more prompt about doing its thing.
[11:59] <virtuald> 8]
[12:01] <alankila> the problems are most likely directly related to being written in python. Python is the new Java. It's slow to start and resource hungry. Nobody complains about this, for some reason, though.
[12:01] <kklimonda> alankila: I think that the current infrastructure makes it hard to display a neat dialog
[12:04] <kklimonda> alankila: not really, it's just that when a big application crashes it takes a while to dump all that memory to disk. And I don't think it can be made more verbose as it's done by kernel
[12:04] <alankila> seriously? But it takes like 1 second to write 80 MB to disk according to measurements?
[12:04] <virtuald> alankila: i don't get why they want interpreters in the base system
[12:05] <alankila> well as a programmer I can answer that... C is irritating to program with.
[12:06] <alankila> it shifts focus too much from writing interesting stuff with the application to whipping up some kind of infrastructure capable of supporting the application.
[12:06] <kklimonda> alankila: it's also prepared to be send to launchpad (i.e. uuencoded or whatever has to be done to make data suitable for http post)
[12:07] <kklimonda> preparing*
[12:07] <alankila> kklimonda: that's likely only done when you actually have to do it, I'd hope.
[12:07] <alankila> uuencoding is a great way to balloon a file by 25 % and thus make everything related to handling it that much slower.
[12:08] <kklimonda> alankila: all crashes in /var/crash are already in a form that can be send - core files are encoded using base64, all additional info is added
[12:13] <alankila> anyway, the files under my /var/crash aren't actually large, all less than 300k... so the volume of data isn't the cause why it takes a long time for the apport dialog to pop up after a crash happens here.
[12:16] <minimec> Hi. Does anyone of you have some experience using the new ATI kms mode/driver in karmic? Is kms activated now in the i386 generic kernel?
[12:17] <virtuald> also, wtf is the scheduler so broken and makes my system so unresponsive so i can't do anything, not even type (it eats my text) when one program uses 100% cpu and i run apt or something other cpu-intensive at the same time. this is on a c2d cpu
[12:18] <alankila> virtuald: I suspect it's about your harddisk, not the CPU. The problem is due to paging, I think: when you try to type stuff and the application needs a page from disk to do it, it will pause until it has it
[12:18] <alankila> and if there's some disk load already then the request will queue for some time
[12:19] <virtuald> i think it has to do with io scheduling
[12:20] <virtuald> heh when i installed this system the installer gave me a 6GB swap
[12:20] <alankila> hm. What, how much memory do you have then?
[12:20] <virtuald> 2GB
[12:20] <virtuald> though it was a while ago i installed
[12:21] <alankila> yeah, well, 6 GB is emphatically useless.
[12:21] <alankila> by the time more than about 50 % of physical RAM is swapped, the system is completely useless.
[12:22] <alankila> there may be some server systems that during long time can manage to swap more than a desktop, I guess...
[12:24] <alankila> there used to be an ancient rule that said that when you make swap for linux you are supposed to allocate 2x the amount of swap than you have physical ram
[12:24] <alankila> this was because the old linux vm was unable to utilize swaps smaller than the system ram size. I think this was around 2.0 era
[12:24] <virtuald> heh
[12:26] <penguin42> alankila: It's not the amount of swap you use that makes the machine useless - it's how much you try and use at once
[12:27] <alankila> penguin42: yes, well, let's just say that this kind of argument is subject to average behavior.
[12:27] <penguin42> nod
[12:28] <virtuald> i probably shold tune some vm sysctls but that's not for human beings
[12:29] <cumulus007> Hi, I'm running Kubuntu 9.10 and mysql won't start anymore, it exits with: [ERROR] Can't open the mysql.plugin table. Please run mysql_upgrade to create it.
[12:29] <alankila> but the fact remains that by my experience the typical swap sizes are actually harmful to desktop experience.
[12:29] <alankila> When you have a runaway process, your interest is with having the OOM killer step in and destroy the task. But if you now have copious amounts of swap, you instead have a period of disk trashing -- and it's the longer the more swap you have -- and only then will the task finally be killed
[12:30] <penguin42> yeh if you have a runaway process it can mean everything gets swapped out - however you can do both if you were to set a ulimit to limit the maximum process size
[12:30] <cumulus007> never mind, got it
[12:31] <alankila> yes, but sadly there are no limits by default. You have to know to set them. I argue that the default should be to have quite little swap -- I'd say it's around that 50 % mark because in practice I have not seen things work past that point -- and that's it.
[12:31] <DKcross> hello people
[12:32] <DKcross> i need your help:\
[12:33] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:33] <alankila> I experimented with setting ulimits earlier but I discovered that processes like wine allocate 4 GB of RAM or something like it and always run foul of the ulimit, because it's about virtual, not resident size. And resident size is too dirty a metric for the kernel folks to agree to use. :-/ So there is no one ulimit value that makes sense to all processes.
[12:33] <penguin42> yeh it's a hard juggle
[12:35] <DKcross> splashy error connection refused
[12:37] <alankila> anyway, to finish with, I have now removed all disk-based swaps and rely entirely on compcache.
[12:40] <alankila> It works very well. OOM situations get handled in less than 30 seconds, and yet you have some swap to deal with increased memory consumption. And above all: very little disk trashing occurs.
[12:40] <BluesKaj> I noticed the kopete icon no longer remains in the taskbar as in previous kubuntus , but it's still runs if not killed by the system monitor or some other means ... merely a heads up to those who need as much cpu headroom and memory as possible.
[13:05] <billybigrigger> morning all
[13:31] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. when copying large files (5+GB) from one place to another . the system  hangs for large periods of time (5-10 sec) where i can move the mouse..  and  thats it.. it rembers the clicks and so forth..but the menus and other things dont take effect till a few seconds later.
[13:32] <Dr_Willis> Anyone noticed this?  (doing updates/upgrade right now, to see if thers any new updates I dident notice this last night)
[13:38] <BluesKaj> Dr_Willis, another case of powernowd not working properly perhaps , cpu scaling isn't stepping upwards in frq when required by the load...that was my experience ,so I removed powernowd . I'm on a desktop , a laptop on the otherhand may need tha powenowd app for battery saving
[13:42] <Dr_Willis> I just saw a kernel update wheni updated..   Desktop box here also..
[13:44] <gnomefreak> Dr_Willis: 2.6.31-8-generic #28-Ubuntu is the latest for me
[13:45] <Dr_Willis> yep thats the one it just added
[13:46] <Dr_Willis> and i was able to change the grub2 menu 'resolution'   someone was asking about that in here yesterday
[13:47] <Dr_Willis> in /etc/default/grub i  got the 2 lines.
[13:48] <Dr_Willis> GFXPAYLOAD=true
[13:48] <Dr_Willis> GRUB_GFXMODE=1024x768
[13:48] <Dr_Willis> brb  - rebooting
[14:08] <jaysonsantos> Hello I'm receving some crashes in openjdk and when apport try to send the error log (which is > =150 MB) to launchpad it sends to me a http error 500, is that error tracked by you ?
[14:12]  * penguin42 thinks there is a #launchpad ?
[14:13] <IdleOne> jaysonsantos: 500 is a server error. try again later, maybe it will be fixed
[14:13] <penguin42> jaysonsantos: I believe you can also raise a bug on launchpad itself
[14:13] <Dr_Willis> Ok.. new kernel.. lets see if it still does it...
[14:14] <jaysonsantos> IdleOne penguin42 I tried two times. Two weeks ago and last week
[14:14] <penguin42> jaysonsantos: OK then I would file a bug on launchpad itself
[14:16] <penguin42> although I'm wondering if apport should have a limit somewhere on the size of crash it sends - I'm not sure which side is supposed to deal with huge logs/cores
[14:16] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.  The new kernel seems (or other updates) seems to have fixed my 'lag' bug
[14:18] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. My drive speed in MB/s seems faster now also.
[14:19] <penguin42> How's it connected?
[14:19] <penguin42> sata?
[14:19] <Dr_Willis> yes all disks sata that i am testing
[14:20] <Dr_Willis> I just noticed a big 'lag' when copying a large 5+gb file from one HD to a different one..   the latest batch of updates from this morning seems to have fixed it.
[14:20] <penguin42> cool
[14:21]  * penguin42 doesn't see a kernel update in the current set of updates
[14:21] <Dr_Willis> doh it came back...
[14:21] <penguin42> hmm I wonder what this version of the update tool is supposed to do better
[14:22] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. somthing is making it hang.. lets try the filecopy again
[14:22] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Do you see any errors in your dmesg?
[14:24] <Dr_Willis> no dmesg errors...
[14:25] <Dr_Willis> cpu skyrockets to 100+ for 10+ sec at a time
[14:25] <gnu-dio1> So, I just updated my Karmic to the current version, and now my sound is broken. I have no idea what update did it, there were quite a few, I hadn't updated in over a week...
[14:25] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Weird; what does top show it's in?
[14:26] <gnu-dio1> Any ideas where I should look to get sound running again?
[14:26] <Karmic> gnu-dio1: This is a common bug. I have the similar problem even with the module and ALSA working properly. I had to switch to Analog output instead of digital to make it working.
[14:27] <Karmic> There are some topics on the forum related to sound not working after upgrading to Karmic Koala Alpha4
[14:27] <gnu-dio1> I am already analog. Tried several of the other output settings, but no change
[14:27] <gnu-dio1> Ok, I'll look forum, I hadn't yet.
[14:27] <Karmic> For me it's working fine with Analog output.
[14:27] <Karmic> using snd-hda-intel module and ALSA
[14:27] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. N Top is not giving any clues.. by the time top updates.. the  delay is gone.
[14:28] <Dr_Willis>  CPU graph applet is showing 100% load for a time of the hang.
[14:28] <Dr_Willis> wonder if it may be a kde issue.. installing ubuntu-desktop now.
[14:29] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Leave a vmstat 1    running in a window and see what happens around the time of the hang
[14:30] <Dr_Willis> ok trying it again. at elast its repeatable...
[14:30] <Dr_Willis> i try ti type.. and it pauses.. then all opf a sudden appears :)
[14:30] <Dr_Willis> like just now
[14:31]  * penguin42 has seen similar behaviours on large copies before
[14:31] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Bit of a tangential - do you have ff running?
[14:31] <Dr_Willis> I do NOT have Ff running :) for a change.. heh
[14:31] <gnu-dio1> Yeah, my audio was working fine with all the karmic defaults an hour ago before running the updates. (about a week or so's worth)
[14:31] <penguin42> hmm ok, it's not it's nasty behaviour then
[14:31] <Dr_Willis> I dont recall this issue with like lots of 300+mb files...
[14:32] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: 32 or 64bit?
[14:32] <Dr_Willis> but i was moving some virtualbox disk image files just now and saw it happening
[14:32] <Dr_Willis> 64bit
[14:32] <jaysonsantos> IdleOne penguin42 Thank you I will fill a bug
[14:32] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: What hardware?
[14:33] <Dr_Willis> amd64 3000 dual core..  Sata drives... lets see... 3gb ram
[14:33] <Dr_Willis> it seems to be 'better' now with the new kerle .. but its still very noticeable
[14:33] <penguin42> you'd think it would be OK with that wouldn't you- I'd seen similar behaviour ~2 years ago on RHEL when moving multi GB files
[14:34] <Dr_Willis> Definatly  differtn now then on the 9,04 setup on same machine
[14:35] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: I think if things are screwed up you can get situations where you get a few GB of memory that's dirty data to be written and then something goes 'Oh shit, I'd better get this written' then you get a big pause while it all slurps out
[14:35] <Dr_Willis> actually it seems to be working better.. now that i have a 2nd shell running apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[14:35] <Dr_Willis> :) like its keeping things awake...
[14:36] <Karmic> gnu-dio1: Karmic is in development period, bugs should be expected. Unstable means it's just for testing purposes so you ought not to use it for production purposes.
[14:36] <Dr_Willis> cpus are not spikeing to 100% like it was.
[14:36] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: Actually, are you sure it's CPU and not load?
[14:37] <Dr_Willis> welli dont see a load meter on kubuntu widgits :)  i just got a cpu graph going.
[14:37] <gnu-dio1> Of course, this is my play machine, karmic. But I do use it all the time and would like to keep running it, thanks.
[14:37] <Dr_Willis> htop earlier wassent showing any thing weird either
[14:37] <Dr_Willis> problem seems to vanished now..  weird.
[14:39] <Dr_Willis> it just did it there.. and load was 3.5
[14:40] <Dr_Willis> Hmm.. bed time for me.. will have to reserach it more later.. night all
[14:40] <penguin42> Dr_Willis: There's a new tool in the 2.6.31 tool called perf that can be used for finding time and stats inside the kernel if it's stuck using CPU in kernel; I haven't quite got my head around it yet; and it doesn't seem to be packaged - it's in the kernel source
[14:40] <Karmic> gnu-dio1: September 3 will be the next phase of the development cycle, when Alpha5 will be out! If you can't troubleshoot the sound problem yourself then you should wait for the fixes to be released.
[14:40] <Dr_Willis> heh - proberly over my head.
[14:41] <Dr_Willis> take care all.
[14:42] <gnu-dio1> Wow, so condescending, karmic. I guess even ubuntu isn't free from that.
[14:45] <penguin42> gnu-dio1: It's worth checking for a launchpad bug for your hardware - and there's a wiki page somewhere about the stuff to include on sound bugreports
[14:45] <IdleOne> gnu-dio1: it may have sounded harsh but the fact is that karmic is Alpha ( not for regular users ) So it is assumed that if you are running Alpha you know a little about trouble shooting problems.
[14:45] <penguin42> IdleOne: Although lets face it, how many of us can do anything useful when the sound goes into a sulk
[14:45] <gnu-dio1> I agree, but he assumed I knew nothing, the exact opposite of that
[14:45] <IdleOne> penguin42: very few
[14:46] <Karmic> I have assumed nothing. I just affirmed that you are not able. Wait.
[14:46] <gnu-dio1> Like I had no Idea Karmic was alpha, for example
[14:46] <Karmic> *have not
[14:46] <IdleOne> gnu-dio1: he did say IF you cant troubleshoot
[14:46] <IdleOne> no assumption there that I see
[14:47] <Karmic> yep IdleOne  got it :) + IF
[14:47] <IdleOne> gnu-dio1: remember your dealing with devs and Alpha testers. these folks are moody to start with hehe
[14:48] <gnu-dio1> Obviously, trying to save a few minutes of my time by seeing if it was a common problem with the latest patches and had an easy solution was a waste of everyone's time.
[14:52] <penguin42> gnu-dio1: I've seen others in here with similar probs
[14:53] <robin0800> to see a funny? bug? plug in a usb stick right click desktop icon choose properties and change icon watch what happens when you hit OK wait it does eventually work
[14:53] <gnu-dio1> I think clearly my mistake was coming here first, instead of after exhausting every other option.
[14:53] <shadeslayer> my fonts look really bad in some apps,after i chagned them,but when i changed them back to the default the still look bad.... what do i do?
[14:54] <shadeslayer> some apps look fine though....
[14:54] <penguin42> gnu-dio1: No, feel free to come here and ask
[14:58] <shadeslayer> whats the command to update all the apps to use the new fonts?
[14:58] <BluesKaj> gnu-dio1, one thing , we're all running the alpha here on different hardware and setups so there are a lot of problems unique to each user , common ones aren't so commaon
[15:04] <shadeslayer> ugh....my fonts look horrible
[15:13] <hggdh> gnu-dio1, please do not be put off. We need all help we can get
[15:14] <shadeslayer> whats the problem?
[15:22] <muibe> 5/wc
[15:42] <shadeslayer> i need help with : http://imagebin.ca/view/jKwPtv.html
[15:42] <shadeslayer> look at the fonts in the system settings window and the kpackagekit window
[15:57] <edgy> Hi, I can log to kubuntu, but ubuntu just hangs after passing the login screen. any one else?
[16:00] <penguin42> edgy: No, it's fine for me
[16:02] <gotunandan> edgy: what do you mean by "hangs", can you shift to a non graphical mode ctrl+alt+F1 ?
[16:02] <edgy> gotunandan: no
[16:02] <shadeslayer> um,my bluetooth device isnt showing up
[16:02] <nemo> Karmic appears to have an invalid evolution-mapi package
[16:02] <edgy> gotunandan: just the mouse stuck and can do nothing
[16:02] <nemo> seems to need 0.27 instead of 0.26
[16:03] <penguin42> edgy: Sounds like X crashed
[16:03] <nemo> anyone happen to know  where I might search for any such build?
[16:35] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek starting in 25 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[16:37] <shadeslayer> hi i need help with my bluetooth device.. it was working till yesterday and now it doesnt work at all
[16:37] <penguin42> bah I'm working most of this week, still I'll drop buy for some of those
[16:40] <andresmh> my mousepad scrolling stopped working
[16:40] <andresmh> how can I re-enable it?
[16:40] <penguin42> andresmh: Try system->preferences->touchpad ?
[16:41] <andresmh> do you mean system > preferences > mouse?
[16:42] <andresmh> i don't have a "touchpad" preference penguin42, and the mouse does not have anything about scrolling
[16:42] <penguin42> hmm
[16:43] <penguin42> andresmh: Try installing the gsynaptics package
[16:44] <shadeslayer> wow..... apparently if you shutdown the bluetooth adapter from windows,the kernel wont recognise it 0.o
[16:44] <andresmh> interesting that my mouse scrolling stopped working after the last update
[16:44] <andresmh> i'll try gsynaptics penguin42
[16:46] <andresmh> penguin42, I got GSynaptics couldn't initialize.You have to set 'SHMConfig' 'true' in xorg.conf or XF86Config to use GSynaptics
[16:47] <penguin42> andresmh: Hm it used to do that to me as well but recently started working for me without that
[17:33] <mac_v> andresmh: gsynaptics is being depricated
[17:33] <mac_v> andresmh: use gpointing-device-settings
[17:34] <andresmh> mac_v, thanks! i tried that one just now
[17:34] <andresmh> but i couldn't reenable the scrolling
[17:35] <mac_v> andersk: hm , try reenabling  from gconf , there have been some problems lately where the setting dont get stored in the gconf,
[17:35] <andresmh>  mac_v, gconf?
[17:36] <andresmh> i don't seem to have that one
[17:36] <mac_v> andresmh: $gconf-editor
[17:36] <andresmh> mac_v, aha!
[17:37] <andresmh> mac_v, umm, i went to system and I don't see anything about mouse
[17:37] <mac_v> andresmh: /desktop/gnome/peripherals
[17:38] <andresmh> mac_v, /desktop/gnome/peripherals/mouse/pad_horiz_scroll is set to "true"
[17:38] <andresmh> the same with vertical
[17:38] <mac_v> andresmh: yes, unset it then again set it to true... there have been some problems there
[17:39] <andresmh> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/285483/tmp/screenshot35.png
[17:39] <andresmh> do i need to restart X?
[17:39] <mac_v> shouldnt have to
[17:40] <mac_v> andresmh: did you try to set to false and then again setting it to true?
[17:40] <andresmh> yes mac_v
[17:40] <andresmh> it's a checkbox
[17:40] <andresmh> i unchecked it and checked it again
[17:40] <mac_v> yeah , check.uncheck ;)
[17:40] <andresmh> i did that multiple times actually :)
[17:40] <mac_v> ;p
[17:41] <mac_v> hmm , I'm stumped , its works for me ;p
[17:41] <andresmh> this last Xorg/Compiz updates messed up a lot of things for me. I wish it could be possible to revert updates.
[17:41] <mac_v> wait
[17:42] <mac_v> andresmh: enable /desktop/gnome/peripherals/mouse/pad_horiz_scroll
[17:42] <mac_v> then
[17:42] <mac_v> andresmh: enable /desktop/gnome/peripherals/touchpad/horiz_scroll_enabled
[17:42] <mac_v> it should work
[17:44] <andresmh> mac_v, nope :(
[17:44] <NoelJB> andresmh, you can find out the old version(s) from dpkg.log, and tell apt-get to install specific version(s).
[17:44] <NoelJB> andresmh, but you really should report the regressions ASAP.
[17:44] <andresmh> NoelJB, that works for some packages but not for all. I have reported tons of regressions  :)
[17:44] <NoelJB> andresmh, :-)
[17:44] <mac_v> yeah ^ , if its not working , its a bug
[17:45] <andresmh> Often times one of the challenges is to know where to report the regression.
[17:45] <andresmh> Xorg, Compiz, or some other package I don't even know exists.
[17:46] <mac_v> andresmh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[17:46] <mac_v> ^that helps sometimes ;)
[17:46] <NoelJB> andresmh, amen to that.  udev, modemmanager, network-manager, ... (dealing with that ATM).
[17:47] <andresmh> also sometimes I feel like the bugs stay on launchpad without anyone noticing them
[17:47] <mac_v> hehe , ;) especially since we are atm transitioning a lot of packages
[17:47] <NoelJB> andresmh, I agree.
[17:48] <andresmh> I was also considering subscribing to an Xorg PPA from upstream
[17:48] <andresmh> do you know which one would that be?
[17:49] <mac_v> !edgers
[17:49] <penguin42> Does anyone know if I move my .gnupg/secring.pgp onto an encrypted LUKS disk it'll be OK? Or will I have problems starting stadnrd logins and things that use keyrings?
[17:49] <NoelJB> andresmh, upstream for Xorg?
[17:49] <reggieP123> hey folks
[17:50] <andresmh> yes No1Viking
[17:50] <andresmh> yes NoelJB
[17:50] <reggieP123> is there a way to add the same wifi support from Karmic to Jaunty
[17:51] <reggieP123> seems as though the intermittent wifi performance on Ubuntu has been fixed in Karmic
[17:51] <NoelJB> andresmh, https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa but PLEASE read the description carefully.
[17:51] <ripps> Any word if the new ALSA is going to get into Karmic? or is too late?
[17:52] <NoelJB> andresmh, see also: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
[17:52] <NoelJB> but I suspect that X-Edgers is what you are looking for.
[17:54] <NoelJB> ripps, which ALSA do you want?
[17:54] <mac_v> andresmh: the edgers stuff is a little stable , i you try upstream stuff , it will be highly volatile
[17:54] <mac_v> if*
[17:56] <reggieP123> does anyone know how to transfer or perhaps use the kernel or driver from karmic to jaunty?
[17:56] <ripps> NoelJB: alsa 1.0.21 was released today, and I think Karmic is using 1.0.20. Are they going to update, or is going to be left alone due to feature freeze
[17:56] <reggieP123> I need t do it to resolve the wifi issue
[18:05] <billybigrigger> ripps_: alsa 1.0.21 could cause more bugs than it's worth
[18:20] <andresmh>  what is the difference between what I get from the karmic PPA's vs https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates ?
[18:24] <billybigrigger> anyone know of a decent console bittorrent client?
[18:26] <nalioth> billybigrigger: rtorrent
[18:27] <billybigrigger> just found that :P
[18:31] <eurythmia> what package should I use to enable laptop Fn key support? I have laptop-mode installed and enabled (being run), but I still can't adjust the brightness of my monitor
[18:41] <penguin42> eurythmia: Maybe hotkey-setup ?
[18:41] <eurythmia> penguin42, I'll check it out.
[18:43] <eurythmia> penguin42, also: the removal of libglib2.0-0 removed everything (kernel included) ... I did find out I was able to run "aptitude show ubuntu-desktop" and then grab the list of files from there, and remove them, but then I had funkiness with my kdm setup ... so, I finally broke down and just used a server-install as a base for everything else.
[18:43] <penguin42> eurythmia: Oh erm, it removed the kernel? Ahem sorry for that! the gtk and x11-common should have got rid of most of them though
[18:43]  * penguin42 wonders wtf the kernel depends on libglib
[18:47] <eurythmia> penguin42, ah, it's no problem. It's just a good thing that I'm patient, and already exposed to linux ;)
[18:47] <penguin42> hehe
[18:54] <billybigrigger> bah
[18:54] <billybigrigger> rtorrent sucks, i can't seem to get er working
[19:00] <TheSteve0> I am getting crashes when trying to open keyboard bindings
[19:00] <penguin42> TheSteve0: Known bug, it's either fixed or just about to be fixed
[19:01] <TheSteve0> penguin42: thx
[19:01] <TheSteve0> how do people usually give feedback here?
[19:01] <TheSteve0> I am a newb to the channel - used ubuntu for over a yr and CentOS before that and RedHat before that
[19:02] <TheSteve0> so I am fairly good with *nix and wanted to help with testing Karmic (love it so far)
[19:02] <penguin42> TheSteve0: Bugs go into launchpad
[19:03] <TheSteve0> alright - then what do we do here?
[19:03] <nanomad> try to confirm that sth is a bug
[19:03] <TheSteve0> nanomad: gotcha - sounds good
[19:04] <TheSteve0> so come here first, then if we confirm put it into launchpad
[19:04] <nanomad> TheSteve0, kinda. The reverse might happen also
[19:04] <penguin42> TheSteve0: There are also lots of other #ubuntu-blah channels
[19:06] <TheSteve0> penguin42: yeah, I asked in ubuntu-dev and they said come here
[19:06] <RainCT> Ohh, the upgrade to Karmic worked :)
[19:06] <RainCT> We've got a pretty weird gdm now.. :P
[19:06] <penguin42> here's good for support and first line support for karmic, there are some others if you want to get further into fighting bugs
[19:06] <nanomad> TheSteve0, yes, ubunut-dev is for Karmic development only
[19:07] <TheSteve0> yeah I am running Karmic
[19:08] <TheSteve0> alright well thanx
[19:09] <RainCT> oh, and software-store looks better than I thought :)
[19:10] <cdE|Woozy> robin0800, have you filed a bug?
[19:13] <ShapeShifter499> hi
[19:13] <ShapeShifter499> I backed up my firefox folders in /home/user/.mozilla now I reinstalled my whole system, how to I reinstall  my backup?
[19:14] <penguin42> just plop the .mozilla directory back into your home directory
[19:15] <ShapeShifter499> its not working
[19:16] <shadeslayer> did anyone receive kernel upgrades?
[19:16] <ShapeShifter499> what do I do??
[19:17] <nanomad> shadeslayer, mhh, let me check
[19:17] <penguin42> according to Chromium one of my tabs is taking -37846112K
[19:17] <penguin42> no wonder it feels so fast
[19:17] <shadeslayer> nanomad: i thought i saw something about a kernel upgrade in kpackagekit,but it upgraded so quickly....
[19:18] <TheSteve0> ShapeShifter499: I bet it has to do with salting the profile names
[19:18] <TheSteve0> don't drop the whole ./mozilla
[19:18] <ShapeShifter499> ok..
[19:18] <nanomad> shadeslayer, nothing here...
[19:18] <shadeslayer> nanomad: ok,thanks ;)
[19:19] <TheSteve0> find the salted name in the backup and then put that it's contents in the new salted profile name
[19:19] <ShapeShifter499> what do I do than?
[19:19] <ShapeShifter499> huh?
[19:19] <shadeslayer> they should start a blog where they put up new updates about the standard packages
[19:19] <TheSteve0> by salted i mean something that looks like fh46thes under profiles
[19:19] <nanomad> shadeslayer, there is the mailing list
[19:20] <TheSteve0> ShapeShifter499: it is under .mozilla/firefox
[19:20] <ShapeShifter499> yea got it
[19:20] <shadeslayer> nanomad:the ubuntu-devel and kubuntu-devel ? im already on them
[19:21] <TheSteve0> ShapeShifter499: I would delete what is there now and let FF create a new one
[19:21] <TheSteve0> then recopy your backup stuff in
[19:21] <ShapeShifter499> ok
[19:21] <nanomad> ShapeShifter499, see: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Import_bookmarks
[19:21] <TheSteve0> nanomad: but I think he wants his entire setting not just his bookmarks
[19:21] <nanomad> ShapeShifter499, see also: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Transferring_data_to_a_new_profile_-_Firefox
[19:21] <ShapeShifter499> ahh ok
[19:21] <ShapeShifter499> tnx
[19:23] <nanomad> shadeslayer, i was referring to: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Karmic-changes
[19:24] <shadeslayer> nanomad: ah... thanks ;)
[19:25] <ShapeShifter499> brb
[19:26] <nanomad> shadeslayer, actually there is a [ubuntu/karmic] linux 2.6.31-9.29 (Accepted)
[19:27] <shadeslayer> nanomad: ahh..
[19:28] <ShapeShifter499> sweet!
[19:28] <ShapeShifter499> tnx the backup idea worked
[19:29] <nanomad> ShapeShifter499, thats the way it should be done. Next time try using something like Xmarks, it makes everything easier
[19:29] <ShapeShifter499> I just erased all of the files within ./mozilla than let firefox create a new set of files than I droped my backup into the new ./mozilla
[19:30] <ShapeShifter499> I know about xmarks, I have a account, but this was on my moms computer, don't want to mix up my bookmarks and my mom's
[19:34] <nanomad> ShapeShifter499, (totally OT) you can use xmarks profiles to keep everything separated.
[19:34] <ShapeShifter499> oh? sorry haven't been using xmarks that long
[19:35] <ShapeShifter499> I'll google that
[19:35] <ShapeShifter499> tnx for the help
[19:36] <nanomad> ShapeShifter499, np
[19:38] <shadeslayer> is it possible to have a different taskbar for each activity?
[19:43] <ShapeShifter499> well I'm going to go
[19:43] <ShapeShifter499> bye
[19:57] <SerialKiller> hey guys i was wondering if there were any previews of karmic??
[19:57] <Karmic> SerialKiller: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases && http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha4
[20:00] <SerialKiller> has any tried karmic yet??
[20:00] <billybigrigger> nope
[20:00] <ikonia> yup
[20:00] <SerialKiller> what do you think??
[20:01] <SerialKiller> anything different??
[20:01] <billybigrigger> ?
[20:02] <Karmic> SerialKiller: GO to the links I gave you and you'll see for yourself, or if test it out by different methods specified there.
[20:02] <SerialKiller> i am going to run a vm and look at it
[20:03] <SerialKiller> jsut looking for impressions
[20:09] <aemyr> Is it safe to update to karmic?
[20:09] <aemyr> Is it safe to update to karmic?
[20:10] <SerialKiller> not yet
[20:10] <SerialKiller> october
[20:10] <aemyr> Okay Thanks :)
[20:18] <SerialKiller> so far nothing different lol
[20:26] <Twigaathy> Firefox is being a bit crash-happy today... anybody else noticing badness?
[20:26] <alteregoa> yeah
[20:26] <alteregoa> install opera
[20:27] <alteregoa> firefox 32bit runs faster on wine then the native 64bit ff
[20:34] <SudoKing> hi, i don't seem to find any instructions for upgrading Kubuntu from 9.04? Could anyone point me to some? thanks :)
[20:35] <billybigrigger> !upgrade
[20:35] <billybigrigger> SudoKing: no thats all wrong
[20:35] <billybigrigger> SudoKing: hold on
[20:35] <SudoKing> :S
[20:36] <billybigrigger> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha4 should do it :P
[20:37] <RichardWolfVI> Hello
[20:37] <RichardWolfVI> I have a question regarding repos, how useful is using a source repo?
[20:38] <RichardWolfVI> I mean, for a regular user that rarely compiles
[20:38] <SudoKing> billybigrigger: thanks, had looked at that, but now realise I didn't have the update-manager package :)
[20:41] <billybigrigger> SudoKing: hehe might need that eh?
[20:42] <SudoKing> I don't know... in my opinion, Kubuntu should have an equivalent installer
[20:42] <SudoKing> this app looks GNOMEish
[20:49] <billybigrigger> it is :P
[20:55] <RagnarokAngel1> Alright, I'm having a weird error after I updated my system
[21:01] <andresmh> how do I disable PulseAudio, I tried this and failed: http://pastebin.com/d364b073d
[21:02] <foreverubuntu> does Alt + F2 update-manager -d update to latest alpha or daily builds?
[21:02] <billybigrigger> daily
[21:02] <billybigrigger> but there's a new method in the release notes as of alpha4
[21:02] <billybigrigger> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/alpha4
[21:03] <billybigrigger> theres the update-manager -d or you can do it from a console if you wish
[21:03] <billybigrigger> but whatever method you choose, will update you to the latest daily builds
[21:04] <foreverubuntu> ok. that would explain the 53 updates today, I think.
[21:22] <BUGabundo> boas noites
[21:22] <BUGabundo> /me waves
[21:23] <arand> hello BUGabundo, whats up?
[21:24] <RainCT> wow, the notifications in the middle are awful. I don't even notice them :P
[21:26] <billybigrigger> RainCT: been like that for a few days now
[21:26] <BUGabundo> arand: not much
[21:26] <BUGabundo> waiting for a forum confirmation email :(
[21:26] <RainCT> billybigrigger: yeah, the was a thread on ubuntu-devel@ about that
[21:27] <RichardWolfVI> I wonder if devs do actually use their packages sometimes
[21:27] <arand> BUGabundo: yay, only in digital land do you stare at the mailbox untill the postmanman arrives ;)
[21:28] <BUGabundo> :(
[21:28] <BUGabundo> tweet.im forum
[21:28] <BUGabundo> darn thing is broken
[21:29]  * arand is hunting down the symlink bug to see if it's ubuntu-specific or not (vbox-frenzy)
[21:30] <RainCT> o_O
[21:30] <RainCT> what has happened to the GDM configuration tool?
[21:31] <billybigrigger> gone with gdm 2.27
[21:31] <foreverubuntu> Is System/Preferences/Appearance opening for any of you/
[21:31] <RainCT> foreverubuntu: yeah, works here
[21:31] <billybigrigger> won't lie, i'm not booted into ubuntu
[21:32] <foreverubuntu> I think it's broken in PowerPC Karmic.
[21:33] <RainCT> oh nice, now there's an option to disable bluetooth :)
[21:34] <BUGabundo> foreverubuntu: it is, but very slowly
[21:34] <BUGabundo> and even worse to close
[21:35] <foreverubuntu> BUGabundo What?
[21:35] <BUGabundo> appearance foreverubuntu
[21:36] <RainCT> Is gnome-keybinding-properties segfaulting for you too?
[21:38] <thekorn_> RainCT, yes
[22:07] <billybigrigger> quite today
[22:07] <billybigrigger> must not be too much breakage :)
[22:08] <billybigrigger> did anyone notice any new artwork for the first drop?
[22:08] <Twigaathy> I doubt I have the correct packages installed to notice :(
[22:09] <RichardWolfVI> the only remotely new I notice in appearance is GDM
[22:10] <Twigaathy> I think that had the debian logo when I last checked!
[22:11]  * BUGabundo is doing updates to satisfy billybigrigger need for breakgage
[22:12] <billybigrigger> hehe
[22:13] <IdleOne> it's officail any breakage from this point on is billybig1igger's fault
[22:13] <BUGabundo> Need to get 94.7MB of archives. After unpacking 5308kB will be used.
[22:13] <BUGabundo> at 2G speeds
[22:13] <BUGabundo> blasted you billybigrigger
[22:13]  * BUGabundo offers a gun to billybigrigger to kill all clones!
[22:14] <BUGabundo> Bug #422247
[22:14] <BluesKaj> heh, windows vista sp2 "upgrade"  fails to install on my dual boot laptop cuz the bcd bootloader has been modded , grub is to blame :)
[22:16] <billybigrigger> haha
[22:24] <BluesKaj> billybigrigger, from most reports the Vista SP2 upgrade is failing on all dual core and 64bit pcs
[22:27] <RichardWolfVI> Appearance is sgfaulting for me, too
[22:30] <billybigrigger> BluesKaj: hehe thats what you get i guess
[22:31] <BUGabundo> ppa for the beta xorg driver? anyone knows?
[22:32] <BUGabundo> x-squaters something ?
[22:32]  * BUGabundo pokes cwillu with a veryyyyy long stick
[22:33] <billybigrigger> driver for what device?
[22:33] <alteregoa> a driver for a BMW m3
[22:34] <billybigrigger> hehe
[22:36] <RichardWolfVI> BUGabundo; Search for Xorg Edgers in Launchpad
[22:36] <BUGabundo> got it, thanks
[22:37] <alteregoa> today i had 60mb updates
[22:42] <BUGabundo> only?
[22:44] <alteregoa> yeah
[23:01] <bjsnider> BluesKaj, isn't that a typical microsoft "upgrade"?
[23:13]  * billybigrigger compiles firefox....again....
[23:14] <billybigrigger> i've here here all freakin' day trying to get it
[23:14] <billybigrigger> bah
[23:14] <BUGabundo> billybig what are you after?
[23:15] <billybigrigger> firefox
[23:15] <alankila> grr, someone should really attack this constant proliferation of language runtimes required to run the desktop. Now it wants to install Erlang? Madness.  I appear to have run into the same problem. My particular incantation of the issue, though, is that the backlight is too dim. I wonder if somebody has figured out how to fix this, even if it's a "pick a setting you like and leave it that way until the cows come home," because I can hardly see my screen dur
[23:56] <Nareth> Alt+tab seems to crash my session, it hangs, but still responds to capslock and alt+f5 and such
[23:57] <Nareth> Let's see if it crashes now.
[23:58] <RichardWolfVI> Nareth: That issue is confirmed as a Kernel issue
[23:59] <RichardWolfVI> the only workaround ATM is downgrading mesa to 7.5


[03:53] <manadart> humbolt: Canonical devs were at an engineering sprint last week. Most will have had Monday off.
[10:31] <stickupkid> CR anyone https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/10651
[10:32] <stickupkid> this was left over from last weeks sprint duties...
[10:32] <achilleasa> stickupkid: looking
[10:33] <stickupkid> achilleasa, tbh thumper did 99% of this, i just moved it to develop code
[10:56] <achilleasa> stickupkid: done
[10:57] <stickupkid> achilleasa, ty
[10:58] <stickupkid> achilleasa, agree with comment, I'll add that next time.
[15:10] <stickupkid> manadart, we can't use mocks folder in state, as it causes a import cycle :(
[15:10] <stickupkid> manadart, any idea where we can put them, other that in the root of state
[15:10] <stickupkid> manadart, maybe migration-mocks?
[15:10] <manadart> stickupkid: Yeah, you can only use a mocks directory if the tests are in an external package.
[15:11] <stickupkid> manadart, yeah, it's annoying
[15:11] <manadart> For internal, just create a ..._mock_test.go file.
[15:11] <stickupkid> yeah
[17:12] <nammn_de> stickupkid achilleasa or manadart any of guys still have in mind what "costs" means under "environs/instances/instancetype.go", are those the costs to order this machine?
[17:14] <rick_h> nammn_de:  yea, in order of preference
[17:14] <rick_h> nammn_de:  e.g. find the lowest cost instance that meets the users constraint requirements
[17:15] <rick_h> "--constraints mem=32g" - so what's the cheapest machine that has 32gb of ram
[17:15] <nammn_de> rick_h: great, i would use that as the 2. constraint for sorting. E.g. sort by type (a1,a2...) and (cost)
[17:15] <rick_h> nammn_de:  I don't think so because that'll lead to inter mixing?
[17:16] <rick_h> nammn_de:  e.g. a t3 and a c3 might be closer to cost? or do you mean just they should sort that way from large, xl, 2xl?
[17:16] <rick_h> nammn_de:  hmm, now that I say that out loud you're probably right
[17:16] <rick_h> ignore me...
[18:47] <bdxbdx> happy tuesday
[18:47] <bdxbdx> trying to help my guys get to the bottom of an issue
[18:49] <bdxbdx> we are trying to deploy machines in our maas, everything goes smooth until the target machine tries to download the agent binaries from the controller
[18:50] <bdxbdx> when machine with ip <IP_ADDRESS> tries to download the agent binaries during the final post boot initialization we see https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WXcpQwjVkd/ in the controller logs
[18:51] <bdxbdx> on the ipmi viewer/console to the maas box we see the machine trying to download the tools from the controller and failing https://imgur.com/a/M58xHAq
[18:52] <bdxbdx> anyone see this before?
[18:53] <bdxbdx> our thoughts are that it may be a time skew between the controller and the maas node
[18:53] <bdxbdx> going to do some digging
[19:11] <rick_h> bdxbdx:  hmm, looking
[19:11] <rick_h> bdxbdx:  yea, make sure that the clocks are good or you won't be able to do secure coms
[19:12] <rick_h> bdxbdx:  hmm, though this "ctrmg6 already saved" doesn't look right
[20:24] <bdxbdx> I feel like a newb today ... so I have another interesting scenario
[20:26] <bdxbdx> this morning, I was added to a "manual" juju controller that has the multi-cloud feature flag enabled
[20:26] <bdxbdx> the manual controller has a maas cloud defined
[20:27] <bdxbdx> I register my user and have access to the models that the admin have granted me access to
[20:27] <bdxbdx> 2 problems arise here that I'm unsure how to solve
[20:30] <bdxbdx> well maybe 1 main issue - I can't add maas credentials to the controller
[20:33] <thumper> bdxbdx: what happens when you try to add a maas credential?
[20:33] <bdxbdx> so thats the second issue
[20:34] <bdxbdx> thumper: I can't add the maas cloud because juju doesn't see one from my local client
[20:34] <bdxbdx> errr
[20:34] <bdxbdx> geh
[20:34] <bdxbdx> sorry, let me see if I can phrase this correctly
[20:35] <thumper> this is an area that is getting some love for 2.7
[20:35] <thumper> it is a bit weird right now
[20:35] <thumper> you need to add the maas cloud and credential locally before you can add to the controller I think
[20:36] <bdxbdx> the only way my local client can see the maas cloud is like so https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DyMtvJ5BJZ/
[20:36] <bdxbdx> with the --controller flag
[20:36] <rick_h> bdxbdx:  yea, so things "upload" from the client to the controller so best to get the client setup first
[20:38] <bdxbdx> rick_h: do I need to add the pdl-maas-cloud shown in `juju clouds --controller dc--00` to my local config first ?
[20:38] <rick_h> bdxbdx:  you'll need that cloud locally so you can add a credential for it :(
[20:38] <bdxbdx> totally
[20:38] <rick_h> bdxbdx:  otherwise you can't add the credential
[20:39] <bdxbdx> totally, I think thats what I'm hitting
[20:42] <bdxbdx> adding the cloud to my local client config allowed me to add a credential, which allowed me to create a model
[20:43] <bdxbdx> I don't know why that was a trying experience ... seems straight forward and logical saying it out loud
[20:44] <rick_h> bdxbdx:  well it's not ideal as thumper mentions. If the cloud lives on the controller you shoulnd't need to worry about the local setup as well
[20:45] <rick_h> but it's not "that" crazy  currently :P
[20:45] <bdxbdx> totally, thanks all
[20:45] <rick_h> np, did the clock sync help and get you past the earlier issue?
[20:45] <bdxbdx> no
[20:45] <rick_h> :(
[20:46] <bdxbdx> I can curl the tools from the controller from any other box ... just not a maas deployed node
[20:46] <rick_h> oic
[20:46] <rick_h> networking in/out of the maas network?
[20:46] <rick_h> is there a bridge/router on the edge there?
[20:46] <bdxbdx> networking is all legit
[20:46] <bdxbdx> yeah we have verified the network details in and out of and around the nodes
[20:47] <rick_h> :/
[20:47] <bdxbdx> since the juju agent isn't making it
[20:47]  * rick_h has to run the boy to horseback but if you find something let me know or file a bug if you think it's borked
[20:47] <bdxbdx> I think my only way into one of the boxes is to get in by way of my maas user ssh key
[20:48] <rick_h> yea, you can setup ssh keys in maas that get put onto the machines for you when you provision
[20:48] <bdxbdx> just about to deploy a node that should get my ssh key via my user now that I have created a model with my own maas user creds
[20:48] <bdxbdx> totally
[21:01] <bdxbdx> the juju controller and the maas node that is failing to curl the tools are in sync
[21:02] <thumper> bdxbdx: the juju controller can't get the tools?
[21:02] <thumper> or the node brought up can't get them from the controller?
[21:03] <bdxbdx> thumper: the latter
[21:03] <thumper> bdxbdx: can you ssh to the node?
[21:03] <bdxbdx> yeah, I'm in it now
[21:03] <bdxbdx> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/yC3KJNJWGd/
[21:03] <bdxbdx> ^ tried curling them manually and it seems to timeout
[21:04] <thumper> firewall somewhere?
[21:05] <bdxbdx> but I can curl them from another node right next to the node that can't curl them, same ip range, same switch
[21:05] <thumper> that is weird
[21:05] <bdxbdx> and from my local box over vpn, everywhere else I try to curl them from it works
[21:05] <bdxbdx> yeah ...
[21:06] <thumper> I'm sorry, but I have no idea
[21:06] <thumper> mismatched MTU?
[21:06] <thumper> that is one of the few things I know that can screw up some networking
[21:09] <bdxbdx> the bridge on the host has 1500 mtu ... the bridge the juju controller container is behind
[21:10] <bdxbdx> I bet thats it
[21:10] <bdxbdx> everything else has 9000
[21:10] <bdxbdx> sec
[21:11] <thumper> wow, my one bit of networking knowledge seems helpful
[21:34] <bdxbdx> thumper: that was it - just awesome! thanks!
[22:01] <thumper> bdxbdx: yay
[22:55] <ec0> it's always MTUs
[22:55] <ec0> everything is always MTUs