[02:15] <Pici> aye
[02:16] <elky> did last night's idiocy continue?
[02:16] <Seeker`> slowest. response. ever.
[02:16] <Seeker`> elky: you mean in -ot?
[02:16] <elky> yep
[02:17] <Seeker`> some vauge mumblings alone the lines of "help! we're being repressed! witness the violence inherent in the system!"
 If a month is up, then we need to rediscuss the terms of my 'unban'. Thanks
[10:23] <elky> i doubt a month has passed since you last misbehaved.
[10:28] <elky> Panarchy, you will not be unbanned at this time, since you ban evaded less than a week ago.
[11:00] <ikonia> Panarchy: you said to me the other day "the contract" (there never was a contract) was void
[11:01] <ikonia> Panarchy: please leave the channel if there is nothing else you want
[11:03] <ikonia> can someone remove panarchy please, he's sad idle in here for 40 minutes
[11:08] <ikonia> elky: jussi01 Myrtti Gary ^
[11:16] <ikonia> danke
[11:22] <elky> sorry, been working through 2 weeks of dishes.
[11:23] <ikonia> poor excuse
[11:23]  * ikonia shames elky
[11:31] <jpds> jpds     26894  0.0  0.7   2256   896 ?        S    Apr21   0:00 rsync --archive --compress --human-readable --partial --stats rsync://ubottu.com/ubottu/ubuntu.db /home/jpds/bots/ubot2/data/factoids/ubuntu.db
[11:32] <jpds> Awesome.
[12:09] <Panarchy> Greetings
[12:09] <ikonia> hello
[12:10] <ikonia> what is today's time wasting point ?
[12:10] <Panarchy> Would you please be so kind as to unban me from the #ubuntu channel?
[12:10] <ikonia> no
[12:10] <Panarchy> (as it's been about a month, I think... am I right?)
[12:10] <ikonia> nope, but even if it had it wouldn't make a difference
[12:10] <Panarchy> How far off of a month?
[12:10] <ikonia> I don't know, nor does it matter
[12:10] <Panarchy> How far off of a month?
[12:11] <ikonia> I don't know, but as I've said, nor does it matter
[12:11] <ikonia> Panarchy: anything else you need ?
[12:12] <Panarchy> Yep
[12:12] <ikonia> Panarchy: ok, what else ?
[12:12] <Panarchy> Please unban me from #ubuntu
[12:12] <Panarchy> ;)
[12:12] <ikonia> Panarchy: you've just been told no, so anything else ?
[12:12] <Panarchy> I've been told no from you only
[12:12] <Panarchy> With no reason given
[12:12] <ikonia> no, elky told you earlier
[12:13] <ikonia> Panarchy: I hold the ban - so I won't be lifting it
[12:13] <ikonia> Panarchy: the reason's we have gone through 100+ times in the past, I'm not wasting time again with you
[12:14] <elky> Panarchy, as i stated before, you ban evaded within the past week, so no, it has not been a month since your last offense.
[12:14] <Panarchy> I didn't ban evade
[12:14] <Panarchy> I might've been on a different network, and was able to get into the #ubuntu channel (as that's the default channel) however, I didn't stay in the channel
[12:14] <ikonia> Panarchy: it doesn't matter, - you're not fit to behave in the channels
[12:15] <ikonia> Panarchy: I've gone over this with you many times, as have other people, as have network staff,
[12:15] <Panarchy> I am fit to behave in channels
[12:15] <ikonia> so lets stop playing silly games pretending you don't know what's going on - your a troll, you don't listen, you make stuff up, you just waste peoples time - I'm sorry but that is the truth
[12:15] <Panarchy> To prove it to you, I'll be happy to help people as much as I can within the #ubuntu channel, for at least 10min before stating my issue
[12:15] <ikonia> Panarchy: why have you been banned from the windows channels
[12:16] <Panarchy> cross-posting
[12:16] <ikonia> Panarchy: why have the people in ##c++ had enough of you
[12:16] <Panarchy> they have?
[12:16] <ikonia> Panarchy: ooh the cross posting you said you'd stop doing - that one
[12:16] <ikonia> I'm not playing these games with you, you are not fit to be trusted to particpate in the #ubuntu channels and you have proven this many times
[12:18] <ikonia> what a total waste of time, I'm through playing games with him
[12:18] <Panarchy> ikonia: Were you talking about the aforementioned cross-posting contract that no one but me signed on this channel, a month ago, which I then retracted?
[12:18] <ikonia> Panarchy: there is no contract
[12:18] <Panarchy> exactly
[12:18] <ikonia> no-one said anything about contracts other than you
[12:18] <Panarchy> Which is why we're talking here
[12:18] <ikonia> no - we are not
[12:18] <Panarchy> ikonia: That's what I'm saying
[12:18] <elky> Panarchy, stop wasting our time.
 Panarchy: ooh the cross posting you said you'd stop doing - that one
[12:19] <Panarchy> that's what I'm talking about
[12:19] <Panarchy> the 'said you'd stop doing'
[12:19] <ikonia> Panarchy: thats your decision to do, you didn't do it, so you got banned
[12:19] <ikonia> problem solved
[12:19] <Panarchy> nope
[12:19] <ikonia> ok, "nope" then
[12:19] <Panarchy> because when I said I'd stop doing it, that was on condition that I was unbanned from #ubuntu
[12:19] <ikonia> Panarchy: then more fool you
[12:19] <ikonia> you're banned on other channels
[12:20] <elky> no, it was not.
[12:21] <ikonia> anyway, it doesn't effect the ubuntu ban, so all done
[12:21] <elky> Panarchy, please leave.
[12:22] <elky> Panarchy, you WONT be unbanned at this point in time. You have NO reason to be here. Please leave.
[12:23] <Panarchy> Why not?
[12:23] <ikonia> oh come on
[12:23] <ikonia> you've had it explained many times
[12:23] <Panarchy> Can I have a date to rediscuss this issue?
[12:23] <ikonia> no
[12:23] <elky> Panarchy, no.
[12:23] <Panarchy> I've waited a month
[12:23] <Panarchy> ...
[12:23] <ikonia> it doesn't matter
[12:23] <Panarchy> elky: Yes it was
[12:23] <Nafallo> 12th January 2099
[12:23] <Panarchy> LOL
[12:23] <ikonia> Panarchy: it doesn't matter
[12:24]  * Nafallo goes back to lurking
[12:24] <ikonia> Panarchy: just move on - seriously
[12:24] <Panarchy> But seriously, I'd be happy to rediscuss in about a week or so, if you don't feel up to discussing now
[12:24] <elky> and your behaviour has not changed at all in that month. you are not going to be unbanned at any point in the forseeable future.
[12:24] <ikonia> Panarchy: seriously - I'm not going to discuss it with you
[12:25] <Nafallo> hehe. was just waiting for that :-)
[12:25] <ikonia> he's just a joke
[12:25] <elky> christel, hon, please can we have a holiday from that moron?
[12:25] <ikonia> http://panarchy.wordpress.com/
[12:26] <ikonia> it's a joke, he needs support fixing grub - yet he makes his own distros and is a paid white hat hacker ???
[12:26] <Nafallo> ikonia: o_O
[12:26] <elky> wait so what is his distro based on now?
[12:26] <ikonia> no idea
[12:26] <ikonia> he talks so much lies, it's amazing
[12:27] <ikonia> he's in #fedora now saying he's installing fedora's grub - but he's on the ubuntu livecd
[12:27] <ikonia> just so he can try to get fedora support
[12:32] <Seeker`> hahahaha
[12:32] <Seeker`> -11:27:16- thadoood : because you live in a wet fucking basement in a 3rd world country like europe
[12:32] <ikonia> Seeker`: he's got me there
[12:33] <Seeker`> Thankfully, europe isn't a country yet
[12:37] <ikonia> ha ha, he's complaining about me in #freenode now because I called him out
[12:50] <elky> ikonia, dont battle him there. seriously.
[12:51] <ikonia> ok
[12:51] <elky> he's really not worth the time.
[12:51] <ikonia> concur
[13:28] <ikonia> has anyone got a good suggestion on a basic stance (I don't mean every case) but guideline on PPA's
[13:28] <ikonia> the ammount of people asking if people have problems with PPA $X or how to use a PPA is starting to grow
[13:30] <elky> i dont know if one can be drawn up. PPAs can be and are run by anyone.
[13:30] <elky> including core devs.
[13:31] <ikonia> yes, not sure how to handle it, as I mostly (not all the time people are using them sensible) see problems being created by people using them, or using them incorrectly
[13:31] <ikonia> I installed $X from ppa - now $Y doesn't work
[13:32] <elky> or being told to use them by fools such as parsnip
[13:32] <jussi01>  go find the ppa owner...
[13:32] <ikonia> elky: yes, what happened with that, I read you'd had to speak to him again
[13:32] <ikonia> I thought he'd got the message (seemed to) when I spoke to him early in the week
[13:33] <ikonia> jussi01: it's a sad line to take "go hassle him"
[13:34] <jussi01> ikonia: theres actually a point to what I said - if the ppa is owned by $random-person - its use at your own risk... if its owned by a team...
[13:34] <ikonia> jussi01: but then we have to check each one
[13:34] <ikonia> each query I mean
[13:34] <elky> i think the base line to take is PPAs are for experienced users only
[13:48] <Seeker`> "if you don't know how to install / remove stuff from a PPA, you probably shouldn't be using it"?
[13:50] <ikonia> I think I'm questioning, and most probably wrongly if they should be as adviertised and pushed as solution as they are to $anyone
[13:51] <ikonia> pushed/advertised as strongly I mean
[14:15]  * ikonia nods to ljl
[14:17]  * LjL salutes ikonia
[14:17] <ikonia> everything cool ?
[14:18] <LjL> not really, it's like summer
[14:18] <ikonia> yes, it's very hot here today
[14:18] <LjL> i chose the worst night to have kebap. it's difficult enough to metabolize one without external heat.
[14:19] <ikonia> ha ha
[14:21] <LjL> mind giving me an op so i'll clean up the less useful of my bans, just to keep my hands busy and since i heard about full banlists?
[14:21] <LjL> thank you
[14:34] <ikonia> is there something similar like the ubuntu beginers forum on irc ?
[14:35] <elky> that's what -classroom originally started as, but i think the ubuntuforums people have something similar.
[14:35] <ikonia> I'm wondering, and just thinking outloud if that maybe somewhere eagles could hang out for a while to get his condience going
[14:36] <ikonia> thanks ljl
[14:37] <elky> his confidence. he has too much of that already
[14:37] <ikonia> elky: not really at the moment, this may be a way of brining him back to earth, the developers have removed all interaction with him and some are complaining about his #kubuntu random support
[14:38] <ikonia> if he can work with other beginners he may see how much he really doesn't know
[14:38] <ikonia> and build from there
[14:38] <ikonia> (trying to figure out someway to inergrate his enthusiasm)
[14:39] <elky> i dont know if there is a way. what he really needs is to sit in #debian for a bit. that'll put him in place... but whether he understands is another matter altogether.
[14:39] <LjL> what terrible thing has #debian done to you?
[14:39] <ikonia> he currently doesn't which is why I'm trying to find a way to build him from the ground up
[14:40] <elky> LjL, i just want to sit back and munch popcorn while he does head to head with wols.
[14:41] <elky> ikonia, you have to knock him right down first. he still thinks he knows stuff. putting him in with newbies is only going to make him feel totally superior.
[14:41] <LjL> evil, but understandable.
[14:41] <ikonia> elky: he's been hit hard back down to earth latley
[14:41] <LjL> how about sending him to some audio-related channel with crimsun?
[14:42] <elky> LjL, what the heck did crimsun ever do to you?
[14:44] <Nafallo> haha
[14:45] <LjL> elky: probably gave me too many confusing mixer controls that end up making me play stuff at full volume at 3am :(
[14:45] <ikonia> has anyone got a good log of #freenode (2 days )
[14:46] <LjL> you asked at the wrong time :)
[14:46] <ikonia> ?
[14:46] <LjL> i used to
[14:46] <LjL> but not the past few days
[14:46] <ikonia> rats
[14:47] <ikonia> tyring to find out the user Nehyx's isp before he got a cloak
[14:47] <ikonia> he's just started versioning me yet he's in non of my channels but it was the "first nick that occured to him" his nick is just 2 days old
[14:47] <LjL> well i can see if i hav ehim anyway
[14:48] <jussi01> I do, but I would have to be bothered enough to go get it...
[14:48] <jussi01> leastways I think i do... lemme see...
[14:48] <LjL> ikonia: i don't have him
[14:48] <ikonia> rats
[14:48] <jussi01> yeah, I would have...
[14:48] <jussi01> ikonia: PM
[14:48] <ikonia> ok
[14:57] <ikonia> mightyc = panarchy, I'm sure he'll be popping by shortly
[14:58] <ikonia> Geek`N`Proud: hello there, how can we help ?
[14:59] <Geek`N`Proud> Can someone deal with TheFunkbomb in #ubuntu-offtopic?
[14:59] <Geek`N`Proud> He's encouraging the mocking of a woman, because she asked a legitimate question on an Internet website (which has nothing to do with Ubuntu)
[15:00] <ikonia> Geek`N`Proud: no problem
[15:04] <ikonia> Geek`N`Proud: no problem I'll take it from here, and speak to the others about it
[15:04] <Geek`N`Proud> okay, thanks
[15:04] <ikonia> elky: jussi01 just remove him, he's playing dumb please from -ot
[15:04] <ikonia> or Seeker` topyli  etc
[15:05] <elky> ikonia, he claims i have some vendetta, so it'll only end badly if i do it
[15:05] <ikonia> op me then in ot
[15:05] <elky> you're not op there?
[15:05] <ikonia> nope
[15:05] <elky> you are now.
[15:05] <ikonia> op me and I'll remove him then remove me
[15:05] <ikonia> ahh thanks
[15:05] <ikonia> topyli: thanks too
[15:06] <topyli> sorry, a bit slow
[15:06] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: hi -
[15:06] <TheFunkbomb> hello
[15:07] <TheFunkbomb> is this where all the cool kids hang out?
[15:07] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: you where forwarded here as your actions where basiclly provocotive
[15:07] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: if you want to mess around in this channel, I'll not discuss this with you -
[15:07] <TheFunkbomb> what are you talking about?
[15:07] <TheFunkbomb> you made your point.    I stopped, the conversation was over.  There's your answer
[15:11] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: no - I asked for a clear yes/no -
[15:11] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I made that clear 3 - 4 times
[15:11] <TheFunkbomb> because you had to flex your e-muscles?
[15:12] <ikonia> no, it wouldn't have requested a flex if you had just said "sure" when asked
[15:12] <TheFunkbomb> I had already stopped
[15:12] <ikonia> that doesn't matter
[15:12] <ikonia> I asked you agree to no more
[15:12] <TheFunkbomb> it sure does
[15:12] <ikonia> and you said "too late" twice
[15:12] <TheFunkbomb> the point was made.
[15:12] <ikonia> so I made it more clear with a yes/no response required
[15:12] <TheFunkbomb> I stopped
[15:12] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I asked you to AGREE to no more
[15:12] <TheFunkbomb> as far as I'm concerned it's over.
[15:13] <ikonia> ok - we'll leave it there,
[15:13] <ikonia> come back when you can respond to people's questions
[15:14] <TheFunkbomb> okay.
[15:14] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: ok, great, please leave the channel
[15:15] <TheFunkbomb> I might not remember the channel when this game is over
[15:15] <ikonia> you'll be forwarded here, so don't worry
[15:15] <TheFunkbomb> then what?  What if you're not around?
[15:15] <ikonia> then you'll have to wait until I am
[15:16] <Nafallo> like if there is even a slight chance of ikonia not being here... :-)
[15:16] <TheFunkbomb> or, you could just reinstate me to #ubuntu-offtopic
[15:16]  * Nafallo facepalms
[15:16] <LjL> you're filling up my logs
[15:16] <Nafallo> someone missed the point :-)
[15:16] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: no, because you cannot respond sensible to normal questions
[15:16] <LjL> i will bill you for additional disk space
[15:16] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: as I said, come back when you feel you can
[15:17] <TheFunkbomb> Is it really a question if I don't have a choice?
[15:17] <ikonia> I'm not asking a question
[15:17] <TheFunkbomb> sure you are.
[15:17] <ikonia> ok, I'll make it cleear
[15:18] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I am not willing to carry on this discussion with you at this time, Leave this channel and come back when you feel you can respond to resonable questions without smart/clever/ignoring responses
[15:18] <elky> much clearer
[15:18] <elky> sorry
[15:18] <ikonia> no problem
[15:18] <LjL> very clear.
[15:18] <LjL> perhaps not so very clear.
[15:18] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I am not willing to carry on this discussion with you at this time, Leave this channel and come back when you feel you can respond to resonable questions without smart/clever/ignoring responses
[15:18] <TheFunkbomb> I'm sorry, I was kicked from here.
[15:18] <TheFunkbomb> ikonia, ask again
[15:18] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I've re-pasted my statment
[15:18] <TheFunkbomb> I will respond
[15:19] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: no - I'm not playing these games, take some time out and think about how you respond to reasonable questions
[15:19] <TheFunkbomb> I just told you to ask and I will respond...
[15:19] <TheFunkbomb> why are you playing games?
[15:19] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I've just said, I'm not willing to carry on this discussion with you at this time, come back tommorow
[15:20] <TheFunkbomb> who do I appeal to?
[15:20] <jussi01> !appeal
[15:20] <Nafallo> TheFunkbomb: you are repeatedly viewing unwillingness to give in. can you please leave the channel and think things through?
[15:20] <LjL> i *still* am not sure putting the actual address in there is a good idea
[15:20] <TheFunkbomb> I have thought things through
[15:20] <topyli> TheFunkbomb: i suggest you come back and clear the issue. easiest
[15:20] <LjL> considering it's already on the wiki page anyway
[15:21] <TheFunkbomb> I don't know what I did wrong!
[15:21] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: you did, please dont play silly with me
[15:21] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I asked you 3 - 4 times at least for a yes no response, and you just kept playing games
[15:21] <TheFunkbomb> what did I do?
[15:21] <TheFunkbomb> because it has nothing to do with IRC.
[15:21] <elky> TheFunkbomb, harrassment is illegal where I come from. that should give you a good indication.
[15:23] <TheFunkbomb> what constitutes harassment where you come from?
[15:23] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: I'll explain this one more time for you cleanly
[15:23] <TheFunkbomb> shoot
[15:23] <LjL> saying negative stuff on irc about a person based on things that didn't even happen on irc might be an example, dunno
[15:24] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: 1.) you where being out of line mocking the women, you where asked to stop 2.) you gave smart responses 3.) I made it a more clear request for a yes/no answer to agree to stop doing that in future - you persisted with smart responses, so I forwarded you here
[15:24] <elky> to be even more clear, he's not meaning 'smart' in a complimentary way.
[15:24] <TheFunkbomb> so this is about me not bending your will when I hadn't broken any rules?
[15:24] <TheFunkbomb> yeah, I got that elky
[15:24] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: the issue would not have arose if you had just said "sure, no problem" or something along those lines, but you refused to respond to a simple request for you to stop mocking someone
[15:25] <LjL> TheFunkbomb: have you checked the "rules" (the guidelines) carefully?
[15:25] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: nothing about bending to my will, about you AGREEING to stop mocking someone now and in future
[15:25] <TheFunkbomb> I had stopped
[15:25] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: AGREE
[15:25] <TheFunkbomb> I agree
[15:25] <TheFunkbomb> whatever
[15:25] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: no. you agreeing to stop and not do it in future
[15:25] <TheFunkbomb> I just said I agree
[15:25] <LjL> you have missed the agreeing boat now i suspect
[15:25] <elky> he has in a big big way
[15:25] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: come back tommorow when you have thought about it more
[15:26] <ikonia> TheFunkbomb: we'll discuss it then
[15:26] <TheFunkbomb> I've thought about it as much as a person can
[15:26] <TheFunkbomb> I've agreed
[15:26] <Nafallo> TheFunkbomb: you also just followed up with "whatever". is that a good way for us to take you seriously? :-)
[15:26] <elky> i'll unban in a moment
[15:28] <LjL> i'm serious about !appeal, please consider whether the ircc address should be in there
[15:28] <elky> someone insisted when i set up the factoid
[15:28] <elky> but ok
[15:28] <LjL> because 1) this channel is logged and stuff that's logged gets spambot-harvested 2) the address is already on the wiki page, and someone who wants to appeal should take the time to read *thatÄ
[15:29] <LjL> well, weigh my arguments against theirs :)
[15:29] <ikonia> LjL: I think it's a good idea to remove the address, if they are serious about appeal they will read the wiki page
[15:30] <ikonia> rather than bat of an easy rant mail
[15:30] <elky> !appeal ~=<EMAIL_ADDRESS>the afformentioned page/
[15:30] <elky> i hate you
[15:30] <elky> !appeal ~=<EMAIL_ADDRESS>the aforementioned page/
[15:30] <elky> i still hate you.
[15:31] <LjL> isn't it =~ ?
[15:32] <elky> !no appeal is <reply> If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
[15:32] <elky> LjL, satisfactory?
[15:34] <LjL> elky, yes, i do believe like ikonia said someone should click on the page and read it (which is not particularly hard). i'm not receiving mail from the ircc address now so i don't really personally care, but as a matter of principle.
[15:51] <LjL> thefunkbomb called !appeal twice in #ubuntu, whatever that means...
[15:52] <ikonia> he's pm'ing me telling me he's going to appeal unless I discuss it with him now
[15:52] <LjL> so tell him to appeal
[15:52] <LjL> enough time wasted with him today
[15:52] <ikonia> and he would have been more polite if he knew I was an op etc etc
[15:52] <ikonia> already done so
[15:53] <LjL> that's one of the remarks i always found most disgusting
[15:53] <ikonia> agreed
[15:56] <LjL> !de
[15:56] <LjL> !at
[15:57] <LjL> considering -at has 11 users (me and chanserv included)... i think !at should point to -de for support and to -at for loco, while !de should just point to -de. no?
[15:57] <ikonia> what is -at ?
[15:57] <LjL> austria
[15:57] <ikonia> ahh
[15:58] <LjL> imho, it should be just like these
[15:58] <LjL> !pt
[15:58] <LjL> !br
[15:58] <LjL> ... except, in german and with the relevant channels :P
[15:58] <ikonia> I suppose it's down to the language or the location, thats the tricky bit
[15:58] <elky> this is the kind of stuff i want some form of ticketing system for the ops team...
[15:58] <LjL> it's down to neither, but in the case of -br and -pt, they've agreed to use -br for support
[15:59] <LjL> and -pt for loco only
[15:59] <LjL> and if you look at the -at topic, i really think it's the same there
[15:59] <elky> g'nite
[15:59] <LjL> i don't know why -at was added to !de to begin with, it wasn't always there
[15:59] <ikonia> night elky
[15:59] <LjL> night
[16:03] <ikonia> back shortly
[18:45] <jussi01> ikonia: you around?
[19:09] <Pici> Wow... what colorful messages in my away log
[19:09] <Pici> I don't even know what some of those lines meant.
[19:15] <ikonia> jussi01: yes now
[19:19] <jussi01> ikonia: pm
[19:22] <ikonia> of course
[20:00] <Pici> oh neat, ubottu actually responded to both @login and @btlogin in a query.
[20:23] <TheFunkbomb> oh, right
[20:23] <TheFunkbomb> seeya
[20:36] <ikonia> macedonia ?? what language is that ?
[20:37] <jussi01> macedonian...
[20:38] <ikonia> clever....
[20:38] <jussi01> Im serious tho
[20:38] <ikonia> serbian
[20:38] <ikonia> he's says sebian
[20:38] <ikonia> serbian
[20:38] <jussi01> I dont think we have a loco tbh
[20:38] <ikonia> no, I can't see one
[20:38] <jussi01> maybe croatian, but they dont mix too well last time I checked
[20:39] <ikonia> worth a go, as his english is not good at all, and I think this will go no-where
[20:39] <ikonia> !c
[20:39] <ikonia> !cr
[20:39] <ikonia> what's croatia
[20:39] <jussi01> dunno if we have that either...
[20:39] <ikonia> ha ha
[20:40]  * jussi01 prods at ikonia
[20:54] <Seeker`> get a room!
[20:58] <Flannel> #ubuntu-rs is serbia
[20:58] <Flannel> !rs
[20:58] <Flannel> Ah, we do have a factoid
[21:04] <jussi01> topyli: ping
[21:04] <topyli> jussi01: pong
[21:14] <ikonia> Flannel: your knowledge is most impressive
[21:14] <Flannel> ikonia: If only there was a place where we listed all of our loco teams... ;)
[21:14] <ikonia> almost like some sort of "page" on a world wide network of computers ?
[21:15] <Flannel> yeah.  Perhaps we could make this page editable by anyone, so that as a new LoCo was created,they could put their infomration up there without having to appeal to a higher power.
[21:15] <ikonia> Flannel: that sounds like a genius idea, if only that existed
[21:15] <Flannel> Ah, well, we can look to the future and hope.
[21:16] <Flannel> Maybe some day someone will come along and create something like that.
[21:16] <ikonia> maybe in time someone will read these logs and create something
[21:16] <Flannel> Probably after you and I are long dead.
[21:16] <ikonia> long gone yes
[21:16] <Flannel> (for those of you who don't know: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList )
[21:17] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[21:17] <jussi01> I love it when you get posts like this on a bug...
[21:17] <jussi01> I experience the same problem!
[21:17] <jussi01> When I try to update my Ubuntu Studio 9.04 it freezes and I can't do nothing!
[21:17] <jussi01> FIX THIS BUG! OR POST SOME SOLUTION!
[21:17] <ikonia> jussi01: that guy should instantly lose his launchpad account
[21:17] <jussi01> ...
[21:18] <ikonia> half the problems with the bugs on launchpad are 1.) lack of detail 2.) logged by fools with comments like that
[21:18] <ikonia> OMFG FIX THIS NOW OR I'LL SWAP TO GENTOO !
[21:23] <Seeker`> I CAN CONFIRM PROBLEM
[21:35] <LjL> someone look at soul_shadow in #u please
[21:36] <ikonia> ok
[21:37] <ikonia> watching
[21:37] <LjL> i don't like the "don't use linux if you can't install windows" line at all
[21:37] <ikonia> that's just nonsense, lets see how he carries on
[21:38] <ikonia> or we can do it jussi's way
[21:38] <LjL> i... suppose
[21:38] <jussi01> nah, if he comes back, then we can watch him. thats total nonsense
[21:39] <ikonia> ident DP-Warez wasn't the best signal
[21:40] <LjL> freenode staff seems to like lurking as guest lately!
[21:40] <LjL> (especially the freenode staff that's on wolfe and mccaffrey :P)
[21:40] <ikonia> they are in disguise
[21:40] <ikonia> or they are dumb and forgot their on nickserv password
[21:40] <ikonia> which is it stew
[21:41] <jussi01> LjL: you killed their cover - kline coming your way :P
[21:41] <LjL> jussi01: it's called a coup de grace
[21:41] <stew> i don't know what happened
[21:41] <LjL> stew: nothing, you were on a server that went down
[21:42]  * jussi01 sighs at jake....
[21:42] <LjL> uhm, was the last one doing the "does anyone need help" thing also from rr.com?
[21:43] <ikonia> what would anyone said if I suggested the @MARK command logged to a seperate table to keep marks' and bans seperate ?
[21:44] <LjL> ikonia: i saw you saying something like that before - why? when i'm looking for someone's bans, i'd figure i'd want to know about marks too...
[21:44] <ikonia> LjL: never mentioned it before, you have my confused
[21:44] <jussi01> !warning is <alias>danger
[21:45] <LjL> 09:27  ikonia  be nice if you could filter MARK's from BT
[21:45] <LjL>   09:27  ikonia  eg: have a little check box for "do not search MARK's"
[21:45]  * LjL NEVER REMEMBERS WRONG
[21:45] <ikonia> ah I do remember saying that, I'd forgot about that
[21:45] <ikonia> LjL: you are en elephant
[21:46] <LjL> this sounds more interesting to me
[21:46] <LjL> 09:26  tonyyarusso  It'd be nice if you got warned if you removed a ban that had a mark.
[21:46] <LjL>   09:27  tonyyarusso  So when we're mass-removing when it fills we can still get notified of those without manually looking.
[21:53] <LjL> heh let's see how "jake" fares with linuz2009 :)
[21:53] <LjL> tough match
[22:33] <elky> are we necking trolls against each other now?
[22:34] <ikonia> she wakes
[22:34] <ikonia> feeling better ?
[22:35] <LjL> just passively watching, having little better to do...
[22:36] <elky> except i now have to go to work and make sure my boss knows.
[23:08]  * LjL points to soul_shadow (and #u-o-m) again
[23:33] <LjL> PreZ reminds me of something very bad somehow
[23:41] <Seeker`> ubuntu_ is a bit odd
[23:52] <Amaranth> Ok, we need to split #ubuntu into subchannels
[23:52] <Amaranth> _I_ can't even keep up anymore
[23:52] <Amaranth> for a new user or someone who reads slower it'd just be completely overwhelming
[23:53] <tonyyarusso> It's true - I usually don't bother sitting in there anymore either, because I'd have to *only* be watching that to be useful.
[23:53] <Amaranth> If I look away for 30 seconds there is no way I can catch back up
[23:53] <Amaranth> I just skip it and lose whatever may have been said


[00:03] <gnomefreak> yay found all the unsent emails :)
[00:03] <gnomefreak> sending them now
[00:04] <gnomefreak> now i hope he knows what that means
[00:07] <gnomefreak> bug 518422
[00:12]  * gnomefreak seeing alot of bugs that has a good chance of failing into that bug
[00:12] <micahg> gnomefreak: yes
[00:13] <gnomefreak> prism at least the ones ive seen have prism in extensions so ive been "remove/disable prism and try again, likely a dupe of bug #*
[00:14] <micahg> gnomefreak: nah, prism just happens to be a common symptom, not the problem
[00:15] <gnomefreak> micahg: disabling it fixes for alot of them (cant say all)
[00:15] <micahg> gnomefreak: yes, because it's probably the only symlinked extension
[00:15] <gnomefreak> prism hasnt been enabled herre since it didnt support the 3.6 version
[00:15] <gnomefreak> oh
[00:30] <gnomefreak> micahg: what are the chances that "global indexing" being disabled is causing mozilla554051?
[00:30] <gnomefreak> mozilla 554051?
[00:31] <micahg> gnomefreak: pretty low I would think
[00:32] <gnomefreak> yeah i thought so but cant remember if it started when i disabled it. still dont know what he is getting at
[00:42] <micahg> so, it's working?
[00:44] <asac> chrisccoulson: can you file a bug or so about the evolution warning? with a screenshot and explain why you see that?
[00:44] <asac> chrisccoulson: i think i want to run this through nss folks
[00:44] <asac> thanks. i will do that tomorrow, so we hopefully get an answer by tomorrow evening
[00:45] <chrisccoulson> asac, ok, i'll do that in a bit
[00:49] <gnomefreak> micahg: if you mean is mine working it sort of is. it should still give me an option to send when i go back online << very least.
[00:49] <gnomefreak>  oops
[01:24] <LLStarks> micahg, umd interferes with gnome-shell deps.
[01:25] <LLStarks> xulrunner versioning and crap.
[01:26] <LLStarks> umd's 1.9.1 is too new.
[01:26] <micahg> LLStarks: so, don't use UMD?
[01:27] <LLStarks> is this umd's fault or gnome-shell's packagers?
[01:27] <micahg> LLStarks: idk
[01:28] <LLStarks> has the 3.6.2 lp been merged yet?
[01:28] <micahg> LLStarks: i don't see a dep on xul
[01:28] <LLStarks> i'll double check
[01:34] <LLStarks> gnome-shell:
[01:34] <LLStarks>  Depends: libgjs0 but it is not going to be installed
[01:35] <LLStarks> libgjs0:
[01:35] <LLStarks>   Depends: xulrunner-1.9.1 (<=<IP_ADDRESS>~) but <IP_ADDRESS>~hg20100324r26859+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1 is to be installed
[01:36] <micahg> ugh,I better finish porting that to xul192...
[01:52] <LLStarks> you maintain libgjs?
[01:52] <micahg> LLStarks: no, I'm doing some of the porting to xul192 this cycle though
[01:52] <LLStarks> cool.
[03:46] <ddecator> what does "42: pushd: not found" mean?
[03:47] <ddecator> nvm, found it...
[06:04] <AnAnt> asac: Hello, I have a question about dh_xulrunner, I am building a package that links against libmozjs (the one that is shipped by xulrunner), so when I run dh_xulrunner, I don't get xulrunner in dependencies, why's that?
[06:04] <AnAnt> another thing, in order to get the software to operate, I added an rpath: -rpath=/usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.2, is that alright ?
[06:34] <AnAnt> asac: ok, I checked the dh_xulrunner code, so it searches for certain strings that are not in programs that just used libmozjs
[06:46] <ddecator> woot! i guess there isn't a gtk bug, i got songbird to start =D
[08:50] <BUGabundo_remote> m0rning
[10:51] <[reed]> hmm
[10:51] <[reed]> I have to build a .deb from scratch
[11:03] <asac> [reed]: whatfor?
[11:04] <asac> you want to handcraft just a .deb or a sourcetree that builds a deb?
[11:04] <[reed]> apache module for work
[11:05] <[reed]> what's the difference between the two options?
[14:37] <micahg> _Tsk_: around?
[14:38] <_Tsk_> yes ;-)
[14:38] <micahg> _Tsk_: mozilla 532601
[14:38] <micahg> is seems that it's a problem with the upstream build isn't it?
[14:39] <_Tsk_> Might be , my comment might have been made in a hurry
[14:40] <micahg> _Tsk_: ok, so, it looks like a patch was made, but not applied because it was buggy or something per the other bug, should I mark it as a dupe then and comment that it appears to be needed per the newer bug
[14:40] <_Tsk_> yes
[14:40] <micahg> although weirdly enough, people say it worked in TB2, but the patch was never applied
[14:42] <micahg> _Tsk_: oh wait, the issue here seems to not be LDAP, but the NFS mounted home
[15:02] <micahg> asac: do you remember a bug similar to bug 535465
[15:02] <asac> micahg: yes, i think we had a patch for that in xul 1.9.1
[15:03] <asac> maybe it got lost
[15:03] <micahg> asac: ok, I'll look, thanks
[15:06] <micahg> asac: any luck with NSS/NSPR?
[15:07] <asac> micahg: oh sorry. i ment to CC you. i sent out a request to NSS folks to check the patch
[15:07] <asac> i cant really add it without their blessing and cant upload if evolution is
[15:07] <asac> broken
[15:08] <asac> so either they say: yes ... or they hopefully tell us how to fix evolution
[15:08] <asac> and other apps
[15:08] <asac> minus setting an env
[15:08] <micahg> asac: well, latest is NSS 3.12.6, but it's not released
[15:08] <micahg> but it's in Firefox
[15:09] <asac> chrisccoulson: how are the symptoms in evolution exactly with a broken nss?
[15:09] <asac> micahg: its tagged
[15:09] <asac> thats released
[15:09] <micahg> asac: BTW, should I link the upstream bug for the pref reset to LP
[15:09] <micahg> asac: ah, ok
[15:09] <asac> they just are forgetting to put tarballs out simetimes
[15:09] <asac> micahg: if there is a bug and and upstream bug. sure
[15:09] <micahg> asac: ok, I didn't know if we generate from tag like FF/TB
[15:10] <asac> i also sent out request to mozilla for three issues: 1. patch for cairo (lcd) ... 2. patch for "not starting because of symlinked components" and 3. font color of awesome dropdown urls in default theme
[15:13] <chrisccoulson> asac - hmmm, i've not seen the invalid certificate warning yet today since i removed the patch from nss again :-/
[15:14] <micahg> asac: so are we trying for NSS 3.12.6 or 3.12.5?  I saw a merge for 3.12.5?
[15:18] <micahg> asac: I also seem to be having trouble with LD_LIBRARY_PATH for edbrowse
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> asac - ok, i got it again (i just had to remove my camel-cert.db after removing the nss patch)
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> asac - http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/Screenshot-Evolution%20Warning-1.png
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> asac - ok, it seems that my issue is not related to that debian bug, and the patch doesn't help
[15:32] <chrisccoulson> it only appeared to work because i need to delete camel-cert.db from my evolution profile to trigger it
[15:32] <chrisccoulson> so, i have another issue then :-/
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> asac - debian bug 563253
[15:39] <chrisccoulson> sure enough, when i run the latest version of nss, the list of CA's in evolution is virtually empty
[15:42] <micahg> asac or chrisccoulson do you know of an app that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH properly so I can use it as an example for getting a mozjs app to work?
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> micahg - /usr/lib/firefox-3.6/run-mozilla.sh sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH doesn't it?
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> basically, it should be a colon separated list of paths
[15:47] <micahg> chrisccoulson: is that the only way to do it, in a wrapper script?
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> thats the usual place to do it
[15:48]  * micahg can't figure out why the linker can't find mozjs
[15:49] <micahg> chrisccoulson: if that's the only way, I'll add a wrapper script to edbrowse...
[15:49] <chrisccoulson> micahg - the linker can't find libmozjs because it's not in /usr/lib
[15:51] <micahg> chrisccoulson: ah, I guess this is normal...ok, wrapper script it is
[16:06] <asac> chrisccoulson: cairo patch was bad?
[16:10] <fta> all, please test chromium from the beta ppa, i need to upload it to lucid
[16:10] <chrisccoulson> asac - yeah, i applied the patch and the fonts are worse than ever now
[16:10] <chrisccoulson> so i'm just investigating that
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> the fonts don't change at all when i adjust my font preferences, so i'm not sure if that points you towards anything....
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> even the DPI settings have no effect
[16:27] <asac> chrisccoulson: well thats a different ubg ;)
[16:27] <asac> chrisccoulson: we have two font bugs
[16:27] <asac> one about preferences not honoured
[16:27] <chrisccoulson> asac - oh, you're aware of this already
[16:27] <chrisccoulson> ?
[16:27] <asac> the other about lcd stuff
[16:27] <asac> chrisccoulson: i considered that bug more critical even
[16:27] <asac> but seems community wants lcd
[16:28] <asac> chrisccoulson: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox
[16:28] <asac> the 2nd and 3rd bug on that list
[16:28] <asac> MASTER - FF 3.5 font hinting does not honour gnome-settings -> thats what you refer to
[16:28] <asac>   fonts are incorrectly rendered due to not using system cairo -> thats the lcd patch
[16:28] <chrisccoulson> asac - so, we'd need need to fix both bugs then
[16:28] <chrisccoulson> the fonts with the lcd patch are significantly worse than without :-/
[16:29] <asac> chrisccoulson: well. in theory yes. but in practice we can only fix the lcd one
[16:29] <asac> we can escalate the other too
[16:29] <asac> but that wont get a fix because thats due to gtk loading system cairo to parse settings
[16:29] <asac> adn then firefox loads own cairo
[16:29] <asac> and the settings get wiped by that
[16:29] <asac> (e.g. a static struct)
[16:29] <asac> thats my eval
[16:29] <asac> anyway... release team eeting now ;)
[16:29] <asac> ttyl
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[16:36] <fta> asac, ^^
[16:38] <asac> fta: ?
[17:09] <fta> asac, /wrt "all, please test chromium from the beta ppa, i need to upload it to lucid"
[17:10] <fta> i also need to have a look at our bugs, see if there's something ubuntu specific
[17:28] <BUGabundo_remote> fta: I'll spam it
[17:31] <BUGabundo_remote> done
[17:49] <BUGabundo_remote>  7221      0      0      39565K   1.3G 628.8M     0K     0K   8% chromium-brows
[17:49] <BUGabundo_remote> fta: ^^^^^
[17:53] <fta> doh!
[17:53] <fta> doing what?
[17:53] <fta> how many tabs?
[17:59] <asac> fta: in the beta ppa?
[17:59] <asac> fta: i see ftbfs on https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/beta
[18:00] <asac> top two most
[18:11] <fta> asac, yep, known, but lucid is fine. the 2 red are not really failures. but a kind of build-log post processing
[18:11] <asac> ah
[18:13] <jcastro> fta: btw if anyone has sad tab problems I found that that ambiance theme scrollbar extension is the problem
[18:14] <fta> jcastro, hm ok. there's also http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=38692
[18:15] <jcastro> ouch
[18:15] <fta> jcastro, ie, nvidia and fglrx using malloc corrupting tcmalloc stack
[18:26] <fta> jcastro, not sure if the bug i just linked is in the beta or just in trunk
[18:27] <ejat> !ping ccheney
[18:41] <fta> jcastro, do you have sad tabs with the beta alone? i mean, without the scrollbar extension
[18:43] <jcastro> no
[18:43] <jcastro> everything works for me after I removed the extension
[18:43] <jcastro> fta: It's only been an hour or two though, I'll keep an eye on it and report back
[18:44] <fta> ok, thanks
[18:44] <fta> i need to push the codecs too, long due :P
[18:44] <jcastro> heh
[18:45] <fta> asac, is s/nonfree/restricted/ ok?
[18:49] <asac> fta: i dont know. how are those codecs called in the ffmpeg package in archive?
[18:50] <asac> nonfree obviously is wrong
[18:50] <asac> restricted/ugly/bad ;)
[18:50] <asac> maybe
[18:50] <fta> i have no clue about what to do here
[18:51] <asac> fta: check with siretart
[18:51] <asac> he is the ffmpeg guy and give guidance
[18:51] <fta> he said upstream dislike nonfree
[18:51] <asac> if he says that he didnt do any special name, we can use -restricted
[18:51] <asac> fta: check with him about -restricted then. imo that better reflects the problem
[18:56] <fta> asac, iirc, he proposed -extra, sistpoty later said "the name of the binary packages are left to your discretion"
[19:29] <asac> fta: choose what you want. -nonfree is wrong, becuse the code itself is not really non-free afaik
[19:30] <fta> i initially meant it as nonpatentfree
[19:30] <asac> yes
[19:31] <fta> jcastro, do you still have chrome install? if so, could you please paste the desktop file?
[19:31] <fta> +ed
[19:32] <jcastro> fta: you mean official google chrome?
[19:33] <jcastro> http://pastebin.com/4BE1gQ50
[19:35] <fta> thanks
[19:36] <gnomefreak> no way to "shorten" it or each lang has to have its own line?
[19:41] <gnomefreak> are we able to use non-official icons for Firefox and still leave the firefox as the name?
[19:42] <micahg> gnomefreak: not AFAIK
[19:42] <gnomefreak> k
[19:42]  * gnomefreak playing with some of my FF and TB icons
[19:59] <gnomefreak> my wife came out to smoke with me. She is a very smart women but she said i want pizze but you have to order it and pick it up. she asked me what do i want on it. if im ordering it in 2 hours i have time to think about it
[20:01] <chrisccoulson> gnomefreak - i uploaded gnome-terminal today without the extra profile ;)
[20:01] <chrisccoulson> you might have to delete the profile from your config after the upgrade though
[20:02] <chrisccoulson> and you can delete it now ;)
[20:02] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: thanks :) i just got good news about smart and now g-term im on a roll
[20:02] <chrisccoulson> lol
[20:02] <gnomefreak> what dir? there are a few gnome dirs
[20:03] <chrisccoulson> was that a question for me?
[20:03] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: yep
[20:04] <gnomefreak> there are 3 IIRC
[20:04] <chrisccoulson> once you've upgraded, you will be able to delete the old profile from your config just using the Profiles dialog in gnome-terminal
[20:04] <chrisccoulson> it will let you delete it after the upgrade
[20:04] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: ah ok thanks
[20:05] <chrisccoulson> there's not any sane way for me to clean that on upgrade really
[20:05] <chrisccoulson> so it has to be done manually
[20:05] <chrisccoulson> but there's a note in the changelog that explains that
[20:07] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: when you say old you mean both profiles? mine and ambience
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> ambiance
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> you don't want to delete the default profile (and i don't think it will let you anyway)
[20:08] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: ok thanks
[20:10] <gnomefreak> ok so smart bug has been open for ~2years so not holding my breath
[20:15] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: thanks it is normal now :)
[20:15] <chrisccoulson> excellent
[20:28] <fta> asac, help! http://paste.ubuntu.com/402015/ does it look good?
[20:34] <fta> asac, or http://paste.ubuntu.com/402017/
[20:36] <chrisccoulson> asac - did you see my comments earlier about nss?
[20:36] <chrisccoulson> after looking at the debian bug, it seems that evolution is doing the wrong thing
[20:40] <gnomefreak> thats why we use Thunderbird :)
[20:58] <fta> (i use evolution)
[21:20] <gnomefreak> i tried it a few times and i never got used to it
[21:27] <chrisccoulson> i use evolution too ;)
[21:53] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:54] <BUGabundo> fta: that was ONE single window (4 more running)
[21:54] <BUGabundo> if that was the one with more tabs (and I don't even have Flash on that machine) it had about 8 or 10 tabs open
[21:54] <BUGabundo> been running that session of Chromium for a few days now
[23:06] <chrisccoulson> asac - i dropped that extra patch from nss now, we don't need it
[23:29] <micahg> asac: still around?
[23:31] <BUGabundo> anyone reporting missed clicks on flash
[23:31] <BUGabundo> ?
[23:31] <micahg> BUGabundo: bug 410457
[23:31] <micahg> oops
[23:31] <micahg> bug 410407
[23:32] <BUGabundo> YES
[23:32] <BUGabundo> thannks
[23:32] <micahg> BUGabundo: np
[23:33] <BUGabundo> micahg: no longer idleing in +1»
[23:34] <micahg> BUGabundo: you?
[23:34] <BUGabundo> you
[23:34]  * micahg was in tehre?
[23:34] <BUGabundo> s/»/?/
[23:34] <BUGabundo> I saw you a very few/rare times
[23:34] <BUGabundo> this cycle
[23:34] <BUGabundo> for the 1st time
[23:34] <micahg> yes, I had a couple qeustions that no one had answers for
[23:35] <BUGabundo> with all your knowlage, we miss someone like you in there
[23:36] <AbortD> im having laggy video with flash in amd64 only some video is laggy like this i fixed it before but cant remember how i did it
[23:36] <micahg> AbortD: video driver?
[23:37] <AbortD> shouldnt be opengl works fine
[23:41] <asac> chrisccoulson: we dont need it?
[23:41] <micahg> BUGabundo: time
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> asac - no, my issue is unrelated to it
[23:41] <BUGabundo> for?
[23:41] <micahg> asac: conkeror merge approved..I'm just updating for the upload that chriscoulson made for me
[23:41] <BUGabundo> I'm not a bot, you know
[23:42] <micahg> BUGabundo: I don't idle in +1 due to a lack fo time
[23:42] <BUGabundo> ah
[23:43] <asac> micahg: merge. isnt it a sync now?
[23:43] <micahg> asac: no, I'm making one change to make xul192 the first of the depends
[23:43] <micahg> unless you think that should be dropped
[23:44] <micahg> asac: http://pastebin.com/depgfLc4
[23:48] <micahg> asac: I have to go soon
[23:49] <asac> micahg: we need to drop everything but 1.9.2 actually
[23:51] <micahg> asac: really?  ok...I'll make the change quick then
[23:51]  * micahg jsut uploaded new diffs, but will upload another set with that change
[23:51] <asac> if you link against glue of version X ... it will only work on >= X
[23:51] <micahg> asac: that's good to know, so why do they have xul1.9 in there?
[23:52] <asac> not sure ;)
[23:52] <asac> if conkeror has native components it cant use stuff from before
[23:53] <asac> e.g. is there an .so?
[23:53] <asac> i would think so
[23:58] <micahg> asac: done...bug 537900
[23:58] <micahg> asac: I have to go...if there's still a problem, please unsubscribe sponsors and send me an e-mail
[23:58] <micahg> ttyl


[01:09] <duckx0r> Does anyone else have the problem where after resuming a suspended session it brings you to the login screen instead of the unlock screen? And then logging in again just seems to hang the system? It happens to me randomly, like maybe 1 in 15 suspends. It is also something specific to 18.04 because I didn't have this problem at all in 17.10.
[04:29] <vyker> exit
[08:38] <silv3r_m00n> hi there i went to system settings > appearance > application style > gnome application style(gtk) and changed the gtk2 and gtk3 themes to breeze dark and everthing became dark including libreoffice, chrome, gedit, mouseedit etc. but when i reverted back to Breeze all applications turned as eariler but libreoffice still remains dark
[08:38] <silv3r_m00n> can somebody help fix this ?
[10:50] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:10] <jubo2> Hello. My system is booting the lowlatency kernel by default.. on startup no grub menu is shown. How do I access the grub menu?
[12:10] <jubo2> This is relevant because my 20GB /-partition is shot full almost to the brim and I'd like to get rid of the lowlatency kernel to save space
[12:11] <jubo2> I did do a 'sudo apt remove linux-lowlatency' but that saved merely 20kb
[12:11] <jubo2> because it did not delete the lowlatency image .. probably because it is in use
[12:13] <jubo2> I'd like to upgrade to 18.04.01 when that becomes possible but with only 600MB empty space in the /-partition I'm afraid the /-partition will fill up during the distribution upgrade and break the system
[12:18] <lordievader> jubo2: The package you removed is a meta-package. Run `sudo apt autoremove` to remove the orphaned packages.
[12:19] <jubo2> lordievader: I did run 'sudo apt autoremove'
[12:19] <jubo2> Looking at 'last' the lowlatency kernel is in use atm
[12:19] <lordievader> jubo2: What is the output of 'dpkg -l|grep linux-image'?
[12:20] <jubo2> lordievader: a long list ... I see even 4.10 kernels there. How do I remove 'em?
[12:21] <jubo2> 4.13 is the latest version it shows
[12:21] <jubo2> I'm on Kubuntu 17.10
[12:21] <lordievader> jubo2: `sudo apt purge <package-name>`
[12:23] <jubo2> lordievader: is that safe? I'm afraid I'll break something if I start purging stuff
[12:24] <lordievader> jubo2:  What I usually do is remove all kernels except for the current running one and the latest one.
[12:26] <jubo2> I removed the 4.10 one but zero bytes were freed
[12:29] <lordievader> jubo2: `dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Installed-Size}\t${Package}\n' | sort -nr | less` is always a nice oneliner to see what packages consume the most.
[12:29] <diogenes_> jubo2, run: dpkg -l '*linux*' | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:29] <diogenes_> share the link
[12:38] <jubo2> diogenes_: http://termbin.com/k6vc
[12:38] <jubo2> I just want a clean and safe way to get rid of the old kernel images and get space on the /-partition
[12:39] <jubo2> removing the 4.10 kernel with 'sudo apt purge' freed 0 bytes of space
[12:39] <diogenes_> also the output of: ls /boot | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:39] <diogenes_> and: uname -r | nc termbin.com 9999
[12:41] <jubo2> diogenes_: http://termbin.com/27px contains only one line: '4.13.0-46-lowlatency'
[12:42] <diogenes_> jubo2, try: sudo dpkg --purge --force-all linux-image-4.10.0-21-generic
[12:42] <diogenes_> of course do always have a bootable usb with kubuntu :)
[12:43] <jubo2> yeah. I got many bootable USBs
[12:43] <diogenes_> see if after that you get some free space
[12:44] <jubo2> ok. I try it
[12:45] <diogenes_> also: sudo dpkg --purge --force-all linux-image-4.10.0-21-generic
[12:45] <diogenes_> oh i already gave it :)
[12:46] <jubo2> I didn't do a 'df' before the command so I don't see much change
[12:47] <jubo2> the command didn't output anything about saving space
[12:47] <jubo2> I try to remove another kernel and doing a 'df' before and after
[12:48] <diogenes_> now: sudo dpkg --purge --force-all inux-headers-4.10.0-21-lowlatency
[12:48] <diogenes_> and so one, using that list
[12:49] <jubo2> diogenes_: it says "dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove linux-headers-4.10.0-21-lowlatency which isn't installed"
[12:49] <diogenes_> go down the list
[12:49] <diogenes_> pick next one
[12:49] <jubo2> ok
[12:50] <diogenes_> be careful not to purge this one: 4.13.0-46-lowlatency
[12:51] <jubo2> that did free a little bit of disk space
[12:51] <diogenes_> good, now next one, there is a huge list
[12:51] <jubo2> so I purge them one-by-one?
[12:51] <diogenes_> yes
[12:51] <jubo2> oh ok.. thanks for help diogenes_
[12:52] <diogenes_> np
[13:23] <jubo2> Uhh.. diogenes_ .. after purging another kernel there is actually _less_ space on the /-partition
[13:23] <jubo2> this is really really annoying
[13:32] <jubo2> yeah.. each time I purge a kernel image the /-partition just fills up. This is agravating behaviour
[13:33] <jubo2> Couldn't we just have a Linux that does something by itself to keep the /-partition from filling up
[13:35] <diogenes_> jubo2, try to remove the headers too
[13:39] <diogenes_> and now after removing some of them, try: sudo apt sutoremove
[13:41] <genii> s/sutoremove/autoremove
[13:42] <jubo2> running 'df' repeatedly shows remaining disk space disappearing by the second
[13:42] <jubo2> something very wrong with this system
[13:43] <jubo2> could be activity in the /tmp though
[13:45] <jubo2> diogenes_: there are headers only for the 4.13 kernels
[13:45] <jubo2> Whoever said 15GB is enough for /-partition? I have 20GB and am struggling to keep some space free there
[13:45] <diogenes_> jubo2, yes look in /tmp
[13:47] <jubo2> nope. tmp is using only 368kb
[13:48] <jubo2> 'sudo apt autoremove' just comments that it isn't doing anything
[13:50] <jubo2> I'm losing free space at an alarming rate
[13:50] <jubo2> I'm starting to think the OS is compromised by some attack
[13:51] <diogenes_> jubo2, don't worry :) try: sudo apt autoclean
[13:52] <jubo2> diogenes_: I tried 'sudo apt autoclean' to no avail
[13:52] <acheronuk> ncdu /
[13:53] <acheronuk> and see where your space has gone
[13:54] <diogenes_> jubo2, ok meybe this script can help: http://dpaste.com/3XQHPJ6
[13:56] <jubo2> diogenes_: maybe but I'm kind of weary of running scripts I don't understand
[13:56] <jubo2> /usr is taking up 6.6GB
[14:14] <jubo2> going offline for a moment to make backups (including the irc logs, that's why the logoff)
[16:32] <Canon> anyone here that is using the latest verion of virtualbox
[17:55] <vegii> help, my computer is doing strange things
[17:59] <vegii> all my panels would freeze in such way that they'd wodk but not update their appearance (clock would display static time, charts would stop etc.) but it'd be responsive to clicking if you did it blindly
[18:01] <vegii> today, I woke up my computer from suspend to ram and the widgets were unfrozen. I got lots of popups about some directories not being qriteable, so I rebooted... well, it became unresponsive so I had to ctr+alt+F2, login and then type reboot, it worked
[18:03] <vegii> but after rebooting and typing in the luks password, there's no gui logon screen, just a busybox built-in shell (ash)
[18:04] <vegii> and (initramfs)
[18:05] <vegii> *writeable
[18:32] <vegii> okay, I typed exit and it told me to run fsck manually
[18:35] <vegii> okay, fsck helped
[18:35] <vegii> all I had to do was run fsck in the directory it printed
[18:36] <vegii> and then yes to all
[18:39] <vegii> I'd like to suggest that it would have been a lot more user friendly if it would do that automatically or suggest doing it automatically, in a simillar fashion to checkdisk. While this modifies the filesystem and could theoretically damage it, to an average user such a computer that requires fiddling with ash shell is of no use anyway
[18:39] <Guest25691> hey guys! how do I tell the file indexing to not only index my system drive (SSD) but also my additional data drive (HDD)? The HDD is set to automount on login. The system is Kubuntu 18.04
[21:08] <valorie> Guest25691: your question intrigued me so I tried
[21:08] <valorie> since my computer is also set up like that
[21:09] <valorie> what I did was type baloo in krunner (alt+space) and then remove DATA from the list not to be scanned
[21:10] <valorie> select it, click the minus button, then "apply"
[23:16] <Guest25691> valorie: thanks for your answer! unfortunately I already did that. still no search results from the HDD.
[23:16] <valorie> hmmm
[23:16] <valorie> perhaps ask in #kde ?
[23:17] <valorie> in euro-working hours, preferably


[03:29] <chilts> ahah, HmacSignatures for SimpleDB in NodeJS now conquered!
[03:30] <chilts> hmm, everyone must be outside today ... guess I should do the same :)
[08:17]  * ojwb is now inside
[19:23] <Atamira> no no
[19:23] <Atamira> its a lovely day
[19:23] <Atamira> go back outside
[19:23] <Atamira> mow the lawn


[00:33] <ppisati> ogasawara: USB_GPIO_VBUS totally clueless, seems ok to =m
[00:34] <jwi> ogasawara: hm, did you get my reply before you pinged out?
[00:34] <ogasawara> jwi: yes thanks
[00:34] <jwi> k
[13:10] <skaet> ogasawara, bjf - backscroll is inconclusive, and there are no updates in the incident report.     What is the status with the kernel built yesterday?
[15:33] <ogasawara> bjf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/12.04.1
[15:58] <bdmurray> smb: perhaps I should upload kerneloops turning it off until we sort out the crashes?
[16:07] <henrix> smb: can you take a look at my git lucid/lts-backport-oneiric and push it if OK?
[16:18] <derwaffenss> Let’s put a stop to the subversive Judaics and any selfish slime allied with them.  WHITE AMERICA: Time for some serious house cleaning! http://incogman.net/
[16:27] <smb> bdmurray, Err which realease was that? For Quantal I thought I had it turned it off by default
[16:27] <smb> henrix, maybe
[16:28] <bdmurray> smb: I turned it on when I was down there on Tuesday
[16:28] <bdmurray> smb: after talking to jsalisbury
[16:29] <henrix> smb: ok, if you're busy i can bug herton
[16:29] <smb> henrix, I'll try to squeeze it in :)
[16:29] <smb> bdmurray, Ah, missed that
[16:29] <henrix> smb: ok, cool. thanks
[16:29] <jsalisbury> smb, yeah, kerneloops is on for Quantal now, it will be on until just before release
[16:29] <smb> bdmurray, Yeah, I was not sure it did work, but always got distracted before actually testing
[16:30] <bdmurray> smb: okay, well it doesn't! ;-)
[16:30] <smb> In theory it should pipe itnto apport
[16:30] <bdmurray> right, there is a problem with just running the daemon though
[16:31] <smb> bdmurray, Then we may turn it better off... Oh bugger... :-P
[16:31] <jsalisbury> bdmurray, smb, I saw a kerneloops bug this morning, and it looks like apport had an issue: bug 1026936
[16:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1026936 in linux "BUG: Bad page map in process Xorg pte:5b840067 pmd:7f4cc067" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026936
[16:31] <jsalisbury> message box:
[16:31] <jsalisbury> This problem report is damaged and cannot be processed.
[16:31] <jsalisbury> Error('Incorrect padding',)
[16:31] <jsalisbury> three or four popup messages at once,
[16:32] <bdmurray> smb: okay, I'll just turn it off for now
[16:32] <smb> jsalisbury, Ok, so best turn it off... Hm, I wonder whether this is because I was told to drop some of the applet patches because we dont need the applet (which apparently we do do need)
[16:32] <smb> bdmurray, Ok, yes. Thanks
[16:32] <smb> jsalisbury, Probably you can assign the bug to me, so I will find it again when I try to
[16:33] <jsalisbury> smb, ack
[17:10] <bjf> utlemming: can you test the oneiric kernel that is in -proposed?
[17:10] <utlemming> bjf: in progress now
[17:10] <bjf> utlemming: many thanks
[17:11] <ogasawara> arges: around?  we want to see that testing doc you posted
[17:19] <slangasek> rtg, ogasawara: hey, question on this linux-hwe-generic thing
[17:19] <slangasek> why is the backport release not in the package name?
[17:19] <slangasek> we're going to have more than one of these in the precise archive over time, and they need to remain co-installable
[17:20] <slangasek> (bug #1026831)
[17:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1026831 in debian-installer "Seed the correct Q LTS backport kernel meta package in the 12.04.2 point release" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026831
[17:20] <ogasawara> slangasek: we intend for the hwe meta package to always point to the current point release kernel
[17:20] <ogasawara> slangasek: there is an additional release specific meta package
[17:20] <slangasek> that's problematic
[17:20] <ogasawara> slangasek: the linux-hwe-generic will point to this
[17:20] <ogasawara> slangasek: wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Release/Rolling has our specific details
[17:20] <slangasek> because if you're installing linux-hwe-generic, at the next point release, you get auto-switched to the next backport kernel
[17:21] <slangasek> which is not supposed to happen
[17:21] <ogasawara> slangasek: correct, which is what we intend
[17:21] <slangasek> er, that's not what had been discussed / approved at UDS
[17:22] <ogasawara> slangasek: hrm, that's not our recollection.  seems we have a disconnect.
[17:22] <ogasawara> slangasek: what was your memory of the discussions, we don't auto roll forward?
[17:23] <ogasawara> slangasek: how else would we roll forward for security for 5 years.  12.10 is only supported for the 18mo.
[17:23] <slangasek> ogasawara: q, r, s backport kernels would be available under separate metapackage names in precise, and track the security updates for the respective releases
[17:23] <slangasek> correc
[17:23] <slangasek> t
[17:23] <slangasek> but the point is that we were going to *only* roll forward from the q kernel to the t kernel once q itself is EOL for security
[17:23] <bjf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Release/Rolling
[17:23] <slangasek> so that users who've installed 12.04.2 don't get a separate upstream kernel release every 6 months
[17:24] <slangasek> which is what happens if you use a single name
[17:25] <ogasawara> slangasek: I assumed this is practice/prototype for 14.04 when we do go for a rolling kernel policy
[17:25] <utlemming> bjf, smb: tested and confirmed to work.
[17:25] <slangasek> ogasawara: that was not my understanding at all
[17:26] <bjf> utlemming: can you add a comment to bug 1026730 ?
[17:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1026730 in linux "linux: 3.0.0-23.39 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026730
[17:26] <slangasek> this is the first time I've heard of a rolling kernel upgrade policy for 14.04
[17:29] <ogasawara> slangasek: hrm, so you're view is the upgrade paths are Q->T, R->T, S->T right? and would those transitions happen when T releases or 3mo after T releases?
[17:30] <slangasek> ogasawara: I don't remember if it was "when T releases" or "3 mo after"; it was discussed in the UDS session
[17:30] <slangasek> but yes, that's what I was expecting to see as the upgrade path
[17:30] <slangasek> which means keeping separate named metapackages for each backport channel
[17:30] <ogasawara> slangasek: our reasoning for doing the rolling upgrade of Q->R->S->T was to minimize the maintenance burden
[17:30] <slangasek> well
[17:31] <slangasek> my understanding was that it was already agreed that the kernel team would take on that maintenance burden, as the cost of providing a suitable LTS experience :)
[17:31] <slangasek> an upstream kernel upgrade every 6 months for anyone who needs any post-12.04 hardware enablement isn't very LTS-y
[17:33] <ogasawara> slangasek: we're digging up our notes from UDS...
[17:33] <slangasek> ok :)
[17:38] <infinity> slangasek: They get "a new one every 6 months" anyway, just with an initial 18-month delay.
[17:38] <infinity> slangasek: (With your proposed scheme)
[17:38] <slangasek> infinity: not at all
[17:38] <slangasek> infinity: they get "the one they installed", followed by "the one from the next LTS"
[17:39] <infinity> slangasek: Oh, right.  Okay, fair enough.  But.  Well.  How is that better?
[17:39] <slangasek> it's better because one kernel switch is better than more than one kernel switch :)
[17:39] <infinity> (I'm not convinced on the "12.04.2 should ship with the backport kernel" plan, mind you, but that's unrelated)
[17:40] <infinity> slangasek: It's one massive kernel switch, rather than smaller incremental ones.  Both suck, I guess.
[17:40] <infinity> I do think that the whole foo-lts-backport-$release thing is madness, though.
[17:41] <slangasek> in terms of administration cost, one massive kernel switch is clearly better
[17:41] <slangasek> which is why the users have chosen the LTS in the first place :)
[17:43] <infinity> slangasek: It might be better for upgrade scariness costs, yes.  I'd argue that the quality of support we (or anyone) can provide on a system with multiple shipping kernel versions is probably worse.
[17:43] <infinity> (When you do a userspace SRU on lucid that's scary and wonky, do you test on lucid's kernel, plus all the backports?)
[17:45] <infinity> And while we clearly need to be doing the backport thing to support new hardware, having several of them instead of the One True Backport Kernel does make things a bit of a nightmare.
[17:45] <infinity> It does for end-users too, who find that they have 3 different kernels installed, based on when they installed their machines.
[17:47] <henrix> smb: finally, pkg upload has completed!  it's on zinc
[17:47] <smb> henrix, ok. looking
[17:49] <infinity> slangasek: I really have no sense for what the average user finds good, sensible, or maintainable.  But I know I live in a bit of an all-or-nothing state where my ideal is "all my machines have the same kernel and never change, ever", but the next best thing is "they all upgrade together and have the same version at all times".  Having the possibility to have 3 or 4 versions in play based on when in the enablement cycle I jumped on board is awful, IM
[17:50] <slangasek> infinity: well, in that case you still have the option to upgrade them all to the latest enablement kernel for consistency
[17:50] <slangasek> but users shouldn't be forced to be an a 6-month kernel upgrade treadmill just because their hardware enablement missed 12.04 by 3 months
[17:55] <ogasawara> slangasek: we're unable to find notes which definitively document the solution that was discussed but we clearly remember different results.  I think we're at a stand still atm.
[17:56] <ogasawara> slangasek: am contemplating best way to move forward
[17:57] <infinity> ogasawara: A linux-meta-lts-backport-latest that gave the rolling experience would allow users the choice between option A or B.
[17:58] <infinity> ogasawara: That doesn't solve the headache that you guys have to support N kernel versions on the LTS, but if that support is effectively just backport-and-forget (has it been vaguely effortless for lucid?), then that may be a non-argument.
[17:59] <apw> infinity, yeah and lts-hwe-falvour is your one there, we are going to have 'this lts backport' and the 'latest lts backport' meta packages
[17:59] <apw> infinity, the argument is about which is default for a .N release
[18:00] <rtg> infinity, linux-hwe-generic and linux-image-generic-lts-quantal are the 2 meta package names right now
[18:01] <slangasek> ogasawara: maybe the X guys can break the tie... since the X stack and kernel need to be doing the same thing :)
[18:02] <apw> slangasek, heh yeah
[18:02] <ogasawara> slangasek: they definitely need to be brought into this discussion
[18:04] <rtg> infinity, slangasek: this is the description of how meta packages are meant to behave based on my memory of UDS sessions (which I wrote the week after IIRC): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Release/Rolling
[18:06] <slangasek> rtg: yes, everyone is pointing me at the wiki page; I'm saying that's not what I understood was being agreed to
[18:08] <slangasek> I'm not saying you misremembered, I'm just saying that apparently not everyone in the sessions understood the same thing
[18:08] <rtg> slangasek, clearly :)
[18:08] <bjf> !vote!
[18:08] <ubot2> Factoid 'vote!' not found
[18:08]  * apw votes slangasek gets the first round in
[18:10] <smb> henrix, its signed now
[18:10] <henrix> smb: ack, thanks!
[18:16] <infinity> apw: Was there a reason no one felt the proposed 14.04 plan wouldn't be appropriate for 12.04 too?
[18:16] <infinity> apw: (If you recall)
[18:17] <apw> infinity, that applied the same to the 'release' kernel as well, and i think people were scared of that
[18:17] <apw> infinity, before people were used to a regular new kernel
[18:17] <infinity> I can see how it's scary, but if it's scary now, it's scary in two years too.
[18:17] <infinity> So, this needs to be hashed out sooner or later.
[18:19] <apw> i see it as a slightly scarier combination, and 14.04 the same level of scary compared to this
[18:23] <bjf> jjohansen: bug 1026853
[18:23] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1026853 in qa-regression-testing "test-kernel-security fails on seccomp on Oneiric AWS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026853
[18:23] <jjohansen> bjf:  thanks
[18:26] <jjohansen> infinity: because the 12.04 plan was announced before what is currently planned for 14.04, and maybe deals where made based on that
[18:26] <arges> ogasawara, hi
[18:27] <ogasawara> arges: heya, are you still on holiday?  If so, go away
[18:27] <arges> ogasawara, no i'm back today! family left a day early
[18:27] <ogasawara> arges: ah, I can see the doc now, thanks!
[18:28] <arges> ogasawara, yup. no problem
[18:53] <cking> apw, this is a fun elf article: http://timelessname.com/elfbin/
[19:00] <ogasawara> rtg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Blueprints/LtsPointUpdatesForXorg
[19:01] <ogasawara> rtg: look at their Questions section at the end
[19:08] <infinity> cking: Haha.  Love the animated gif of jmps.
[19:10] <rtg> ogasawara, hmm
[19:48] <hggdh> smb: while testing the new oneiric kernel, I got a crash on m1.small: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1102330/
[19:48] <hggdh> repeating the test did not result in a crash
[19:51] <smb> hggdh, I think I saw this kind of failure somewhere before but I cannot remember exactly where. Does repeating the test involve starting another instance? (which I assume)
[19:52] <smb> It would be good if there are complete dmesgs of fail or not fail (in order to see which xen version this was)
[19:54] <jjohansen> yeah
[19:54] <infinity> Could be hypervisor versions, or even underlying hardware.  Not all instances are created equal. :/
[19:54] <jjohansen> smb, hggdh can't you just reboot the instance, instead of starting a new one so we are guaranteed the same Xen/machine
[19:57] <smb> jjohansen, with manual attempts certainly. Though I would think from jenkins its probably always starting a fresh one
[19:57] <smb> With all the "repeatability"
[19:57] <hggdh> smb, jjohansen
[19:57] <hggdh> ; the instance was rebootged
[19:57] <smb> Unfortunately ec2 is a bit "surprising" there
[19:58] <hggdh> this is being run manually
[19:58]  * jjohansen wasn't sure if this was from a jenkins or manual test
[19:58]  * smb neither
[20:05] <hggdh> jjohansen: I will rerun on the previous kernel
[20:10] <hggdh> and this may explain the failure I got yesterday runniong the -17
[20:22] <hggdh> jjohansen, smb just ran seccomp on -22, no errors
[20:22] <hggdh> I am starting to think I am getting different xen versions
[20:23] <smb> hggdh, As did I (get no errors) when running it yesterday. That one was something 3.4.3-kaos...
[20:23] <jjohansen> hggdh: likely, what we need to do is multiple runs, and get the full boot log
[20:24] <hggdh> the failing one (on -23.39 is [    0.000000] Xen version: 3.0.3-rc5-8.1.14.e
[20:25] <hggdh> the one with no failure (on -22) is [    0.000000] Xen version: 3.4.3-2.6.18 (preserve-AD)
[20:25] <hggdh> smb: isn't the 3.03 the one we had an issue some time ago?
[20:26] <hggdh> how many bloody different versions does AWS run?
[20:26] <bjf> hggdh: are you ready to sign off on the "incident" bug so we can get this oneiric kernel into -proposed?
[20:27] <smb> hggdh, Usually the older the more issues. There was one, and it might have been this one that had issues with installing java on 32bit t1.micro
[20:27] <ogasawara> ppisati: can you add DRM_OMAP to your investigation list
[20:27] <smb> hggdh, bjf Certainly this is not any regression (that much we already were ready to agree yesterday)
[20:28] <smb> jjohansen, Note that the crash there is another path of setting cr4 (remember osxsave)?
[20:31] <hggdh> I just ran another one under [    0.000000] Xen version: 3.4.3-2.6.18 (preserve-AD)
[20:32] <jjohansen> smb: no, not at all /me sticks fingers in ears and shouts I'm not listening, I'm not listening
[20:33] <smb> hggdh, aaaaand?
[20:33] <hggdh> hum. Let me repeat, the instance seems to have vanished :-(
[20:33] <jjohansen> sigh /me really dislikes dealing with all Xen version on ec2
[20:34] <smb> hggdh, That does not exactly sound like a repeat
[20:34] <hggdh> dammit. I have the feeling it was a 3.0.3-whatever, under -17. I will restart
[20:39] <hggdh> smb: no, it does not. I never had an instance simply vanish in thin air
[20:41] <hggdh> found it, it was just lurking. It is indeed a 3.0.3-rc5-8.1.14.f, on -17
[20:43] <smb> hggdh, I have the same gp fault on another 3.0.3 I started and I certainly had no problems yesterday which ran on 3.4.3
[20:43] <hggdh> smb: the other 3.0.3 above also died on an OOPS
[20:44] <hggdh> smb: I agree this sounds like a bad Xen on AWS
[20:48] <hggdh> apart from that, no errors on KVM, and bare-metal (except that all jobs on two specific machines failed, but this is due to a problem with the CDU
[20:48] <hggdh> oh, perfect, now I have a thunderstorm over me
[20:49] <hggdh> smb, jjohansen: do you agree this is most probably related to the 3.0.3-crappy Xen on AWS?
[20:51] <jjohansen> hggdh: that does seem to be a possibility, but I a haven't seen enough data to be comfortable claiming such.  Basically I have seen one instance that we can definitively make the correlation.  I would like a lot more data than that
[20:51] <smb> hggdh, Having seen it pass depending on host Xen version or not and even fail on older releases when not, this really does not sound like any regression
[20:53] <bjf> this is *not* a regression. a bug has been filed, we need to add data to that but do we wan't to hold up on the release of this kernel?
[20:55] <bjf> hggdh, jjohansen ^ ?
[20:56] <hggdh> bjf: jjohansen is correct -- it seems not a regression, but I would like to try another one
[20:56]  * hggdh is almost convinced
[20:57] <jjohansen> hggdh, bjf: I am convinced it is not a regression we have sufficient data to show it happening on older releases.  The only thing I am unsure of is the correlation of all the failures to Xen version 3.0.3-crappy
[20:57] <jjohansen> bjf: what is the bug number again
[20:57] <bjf> jjohansen: bug 1026730
[20:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1026730 in linux "linux: 3.0.0-23.39 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026730
[20:58] <hggdh> jjohansen: running on 3.4.3-kaos-whatever
[21:00] <smb> jjohansen, I agree that pinning badness to one exact version we will need to repeat the tests more often. There might be versions in between showing the same or different problems (or none)
[21:01] <hggdh> so far we have at least 3 different versions involved... who knows how many are there?
[21:02] <smb> $DEITY knows...
[21:03] <smb> Still this should not let us delay getting rid of the other mess
[21:03] <hggdh> OK. ran on 3.4.3-kaos_droplet (preserve-AD), -17 kernel, no issues
[21:03] <hggdh> I vote to approve
[21:03] <smb> +1
[21:03] <jjohansen> +1
[21:03] <hggdh> jjohansen: ?
[21:03] <hggdh> heh
[21:03] <bjf> hggdh: you can cast your vote by changing the task :-)
[21:04]  * hggdh goes updating the task
[21:05] <hggdh> jjohansen: there is a confirmed task there for you also
[21:07]  * hggdh goes terminating all m1.small instances
[21:07] <jjohansen> hggdh: yeah, its going to take a few minutes, I am running the scripts now
[21:11] <bjf> jjohansen: i believe the bug is waiting on "security signoff'
[21:11] <jjohansen> bjf: yes, I am working on it
[21:12] <bjf> jjohansen: :-) thanks
[21:12] <infinity> Oh, hah, I just mentioned that in another channel.
[21:12] <infinity> La la la.
[21:13] <infinity> I'd question why Amazon is using xen3 at all instead of xen4, but whatever. :/
[21:17] <hggdh> not only xen3, but a really old on at that
[21:17] <hggdh> s/ on/&e/
[21:29] <jjohansen> hggdh, bjf, infinity: released
[21:29]  * hggdh goes to cross all fingers and toes, just in case
[21:30] <bjf> jjohansen: ack
[21:30] <bjf> infiniti, it is in your hands
[21:32] <bjf> infinity, the bot is not going to set the release tasks due to it being friday :-)
[21:34] <henrix> bjf: and will it set the 'promote-to-proposed' task on the lts kernel tracking bug?
[21:36] <hggdh> bjf: BTW, have you seen https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/SRU%20Kernel/ ? We are now listing the kernel version there; I think it is good enough, care to comment?
[21:38] <bjf> hggdh: yes, that is very nice in the description. are these in the "dashboard" yet?
[21:39] <herton> henrix, yes, nothing was changed related to the promote-to-proposed task
[21:39] <henrix> herton: ack, thanks
[21:41] <infinity> bjf: Haha, right.  On it.
[21:41] <hggdh> bjf: I think so (based on gema's EOD in G+)
[21:43] <infinity> bjf: Was the promote-to-security task a mistake there?  The previous -23.38 was only in -updates.
[21:44] <infinity> bjf: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1020623 <-- No security task.
[21:44] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1020623 in linux "linux: 3.0.0-23.38 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,Fix released]
[21:44] <infinity> bjf: Doesn't seem to make sense for 23.39 to have one.
[21:45] <henrix> infinity: there is a security task there as well, which was marked as invalid i believe.
[21:46] <henrix> infinity: see comment #4
[21:46] <herton> yes, the bot would set it to invalid, but as it doesn't run today the task stays as new
[21:46] <infinity> henrix: I meant "there wasn't a valid one". :P
[21:47] <infinity> herton: The bot really should be marking security (and signoff) tasks invalid long before it comes up.  Could have saved jjohansen some time too.
[21:47] <infinity> (Though I'm not sure how the bot even knows, I would have thought it was a human task)
[21:47] <herton> infinity, no, the bot doesn't go as far as that, I thought you meant about the task as being in new state
[21:47] <bjf> infinity, jjohansen set the task
[21:48] <infinity> herton: No, no.  I meant it should be invalid.
[21:48] <jjohansen> infinity: we have scripts etc, to help determine if its invalid, but in the end it currently a human call
[21:49] <herton> infinity, the bot sets it to invalid if jjohansen sets the security-signoff to invalid. But it sets this along with the promote-to-updates step
[21:49] <jjohansen> infinity: so I ran my check, it reports it needs to be looked at, and another script reports it doesn't believe there are any CVEs, but I need to do the check and make the final call
[21:49] <infinity> herton: Ahh, kay.  So, jjohansen also didn't set signoff to invalid, so I'll blame him. :)
[21:49] <infinity> Oh, wait.  He did.  I'm blind.
[21:49] <infinity> IGNORE ME.
[21:50] <jjohansen> herton: I did set the security sign-off to invalid
[21:50]  * infinity plays bot, and releases.
[21:50] <jjohansen> herton: oh ignore I read that wrong
[21:51] <henrix> infinity: since you're around... would you care to take a look at oneiric lts kernel? :)
[21:51] <infinity> henrix: Needs a PPA copy?
[21:52] <bjf> infinity: it just went into the upload queue
[21:52] <henrix> infinity: yep. i know its friday, but its the same issue so... i guess we're having an exception here as well
[21:52] <infinity> bjf: Alright.  Will accept and fix the override on the one binary if it breaks the same way.
[21:52] <henrix> thanks
[21:54] <infinity> jjohansen: If you want to pre-emtively security-invalidate https://bugs.launchpad.net/kernel-sru-workflow/promote-to-proposed/+bug/1026884 now, so we don't have to worry about it later? :)
[21:54] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1026884 in linux-lts-backport-oneiric "linux-lts-backport-oneiric: 3.0.0-23.39~lucid1 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
[21:54] <rtg> http://bytesmedia.co.uk/2012/07/17/richard-stallman-uefi/
[21:54] <infinity> rtg: That's a terrifying combination of nouns.
[21:55] <rtg> infinity, as you might have guess, he's not all that positive about UEFI
[21:55] <infinity> rtg: s/UEFI/SecureBoot/
[21:56] <infinity> rtg: And even then, probably only vendor restrictions on SB, I'd bet.
[21:56] <rtg> infinity, right
[21:56]  * infinity wishes people would stop conflating (u)efi and SB.
[21:56] <rtg> I've conflated UEFI with SB 'cause its all I've thought about lately
[21:56] <infinity> We have a "supporting UEFI" session at DebConf that was entirely dominated by SB prattle, which was useless.
[21:57] <infinity> s/have/had/
[21:58] <jjohansen> infinity: unfortunately microsoft is forcing the the conflation of UEFI SB and RB
[22:00] <infinity> jjohansen: To be fair, I think it's mostly the free software world that's doing that, especially the people who don't seem to be aware that there have been EFI machines for years that they supported poorly (or failed to support entirely).
[22:01] <infinity> jjohansen: So, now that the world is moving to UEFI wholesale, and it happens to coincide with the Win8 SB cutover, people are acting as though "supporting EFI" and "supporting SB" are the same task, when they're two very different beasts.
[22:01] <infinity> (And those of us who supported EFI for years know this)
[22:02] <jjohansen> infinity: previous efi did not conform to the SB specification and microsoft wasn't forcing its use for RB nor was it the root key authority
[22:03] <infinity> jjohansen: Yes.  But that doesn't make A equal to B.
[22:03]  * infinity shrugs.
[22:03] <infinity> It's a pet peeve.
[22:03] <jjohansen> infinity: agreed that EFI and SB are different but its because microsoft is forcing SB/RB that its a problem
[22:03] <infinity> Not made better by, like I said, a one hour session of people talking about secureboot, as if that mattered when Debian doesn't even support EFI properly.
[22:04] <infinity> jjohansen: SB/RB goes from annoying to downright hostile, but even without it, modern OSes need to support EFI, and most don't actually do it right.
[22:05] <jjohansen> infinity: true, though /me can wish that EFI was never even conceived
[22:07] <infinity> I do rather wish that Intel/HP had gone with OpenFirmware back when they decided to flirt with PC BIOS alternatives.
[22:07] <infinity> The reinvention of the wheel was irksome.
[22:07] <infinity> From a "firmware addon" developer POV, EFI is much more pleasant, though.  Maybe that was part of the motivation.
[22:12] <jjohansen> infinity: heh if firmware addons are what you want what of coreboot
[22:14] <infinity> jjohansen: coreboot is politically distasteful to a lot of people, I suspect.
[22:14] <jjohansen> infinity: well yes :)
[22:14] <jjohansen> infinity: but so is SB
[22:14] <infinity> OF would have been a reasonably neutral choice, I thought.
[22:14] <infinity> IBM, Sun, Apple, and many others had invested in it.
[22:14] <jjohansen> it was the logical choice at the time
[22:14] <infinity> But, too late now.
[22:14] <jjohansen> yep
[22:39] <ogasawara> ppisati: CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_1 does this need to be =y on omap4 or can we flip it to =m
[22:44] <ogasawara> ppisati: CONFIG__OMAP_IOVMM=n, should that be =m?
[23:20] <ppisati> ogasawara: OMAP_IOVMM should be deprecated in modern kernels, is it =y or =m anywhere?
[23:21] <ogasawara> ppisati: it's set =m on omap3
[23:21] <ogasawara> ppisati: so we should turn it off yes?


[10:12] <YoBoY> Hi, some week's ago I tried to have help and feedback for a 13.04 DVD cover art, since there is no more official artwork for that, but after trying on 2 mailing lists (ubuntu-art and loco-contacts) and here on irc, I had no feedback on that. Where I have to post things to have some kind of advices ?
[15:24] <YoBoY> Hi, some week's ago I tried to have help and feedback for a 13.04 DVD cover art, since there is no more official artwork for that, but after trying on 2 mailing lists (ubuntu-art and loco-contacts) and here on irc, I had no feedback on that. Where I have to post things to have some kind of advices ?


[02:03] <undriedsea> I am having a proc filesystem problem. My program is running at root and is PTRACE attached to a process. When I look at /proc/<pid>/map I have an entry that reads:
[02:03] <undriedsea> f2e478eb000-7f2e47900000 r-xp 0 8:1 261712	                     /lib/libgcc_s.so.1
[02:03] <undriedsea> But if I seek to 0xf2e478eb000 in /proc/<pid>/mem and attempt to read the block, my ifstream reports it failed (via fmem.bad()). Anyone have any ideas?
[07:32] <eagles0513875> morning apw
[10:47] <simonbcn> Hi, how I can I build the package linux-libc-dev?
[10:50] <simonbcn> Hi, how I can build the package linux-libc-dev?
[10:57] <simonbcn> well, I explain more: I've tried with "fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch-headers" but "mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/simon/sources/kernel/ubuntu-natty/debian/linux-libc-dev/usr/include/': File exists make: *** [install-arch-headers] Error 1"
[10:57] <simonbcn> It's the same process but it gives error!
[10:59] <simonbcn> I means, the same process "binary-arch-headers" creates this folder and the same process gives error because it is created!! o_O
[11:02] <simonbcn> I've searched in Google, etc... but I found nothing about this. :-(
[11:46] <simonbcn> Hi, how I can build the package linux-libc-dev?
[11:46] <simonbcn> well, I explain more: I've tried with "fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch-headers" but "mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/simon/sources/kernel/ubuntu-natty/debian/linux-libc-dev/usr/include/': File exists make: *** [install-arch-headers] Error 1"
[11:48] <simonbcn> I means, the same process "binary-arch-headers" creates this folder and the same process gives error because it is created!! o_O
[12:20] <Kano> hi, is ist possible to get 32+64 bit kernels in one dir
[12:20] <Kano> like for rc6
[12:29] <Kano> will there be a natty update kernel for .5 soon?
[13:21] <simonbcn> Hi, how I can build the package linux-libc-dev?
[13:21] <simonbcn> well, I explain more: I've tried with "fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch-headers" but "mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/simon/sources/kernel/ubuntu-natty/debian/linux-libc-dev/usr/include/': File exists make: *** [install-arch-headers] Error 1"
[13:21] <simonbcn> I means, the same process "binary-arch-headers" creates this folder and the same process gives error because it is created!! o_O
[14:26] <simonbcn> Hi, how I can build the package linux-libc-dev?
[14:26] <simonbcn> well, I explain more: I've tried with "fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch-headers" but "mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/simon/sources/kernel/ubuntu-natty/debian/linux-libc-dev/usr/include/': File exists make: *** [install-arch-headers] Error 1"
[14:26] <simonbcn> I means, the same process "binary-arch-headers" creates this folder and the same process gives error because it is created!! o_O
[15:32] <vasco> hi
[15:33] <vasco> someone from the kernel team present?
[15:34] <bjf> vasco, the kernel team is currently at a conference (uds) in hungary
[15:34] <vasco> aha I see
[15:35] <vasco> I like to give notice of a bug
[15:36] <vasco> shall I wait for the team to return
[15:36] <bjf> vasco, have you filed the bug in Launchpad ?
[15:36] <vasco> yes it is filed in launchpad
[15:36] <vasco> for a while now
[15:36] <bjf> what's the bug # ?
[15:37] <vasco> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/550559/
[15:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 550559 in ubuntu "hdd problems, failed command: READ FPDMA QUEUED" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[15:37] <vasco> I think this one is interesting for the kernel team:
[15:37] <vasco> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/550559/comments/41
[15:37] <vasco> that comment I mean
[15:41] <Kano> does a reboot work? then it maybe needs just a delay
[15:43] <vasco> what do you mean with does a reboot work? does it make the problem go away, no.
[15:43] <Kano> i read about lots of problems with ssd on amd boards
[15:44] <vasco> this is not about ssds
[15:44] <vasco> plain old fashion harddisks
[16:23] <simonbcn> Hi, how I can build the package linux-libc-dev?
[16:23] <simonbcn> well, I explain more: I've tried with "fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch-headers" but "mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/simon/sources/kernel/ubuntu-natty/debian/linux-libc-dev/usr/include/': File exists make: *** [install-arch-headers] Error 1"
[16:23] <simonbcn> I means, the same process "binary-arch-headers" creates this folder and the same process gives error because it is created!! o_O
[18:09] <ikt> heya, what would be the best way to submit a driver for ubuntu to include?
[18:12] <mjg59> ikt: Ideally, get it upstream
[18:17] <ikt> yeah
[18:17] <ikt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/779484
[18:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 779484 in linux "Ralink 5390 wireless driver not included in Natty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[18:17] <ikt> if you want to throw them a rope :P
[18:21] <mjg59> ikt: That driver's a binary-only module
[18:22] <mjg59> Which HP appear to be supplying without source even though it claims to be GPLed
[18:22] <ikt> hmm
[18:23] <ikt> would this be something jockey would be better suited for?
[18:23] <mjg59> There is source available, it seems
[18:23] <mjg59> Well, the binary pointed to from there won't work because it's built for the wrong kernel
[18:23] <ikt> ah that makes sense
[18:24] <ikt> so there's no source, built for the wrong kernel, and the source that's in the main linux kernel is considererd experimental
[18:24] <mjg59> There's source at https://build.opensuse.org/package/binaries?package=rt5390sta&project=driver%3Awireless&repository=11.4-update
[18:25] <ikt> hrmm, is there any obvious reason why it's not in .38/39 kernel?
[18:25] <mjg59> Hasn't been submitted?
[18:25] <mjg59> It'd probably only get as far as staging
[18:26] <ikt> http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ralink.html
[18:27] <ikt>  Ralink is sending patches for the upstream rt2x00 driver for their new chipsets,
[18:27] <mjg59> Huh. Ok.
[18:27] <ikt> so work in progress?
[18:27] <mjg59> Probably appear in .40, then
[18:27] <ikt> yea


[22:02] <amcsi> help, the tray of lubuntu is shown over maximized applications. How do I fix this?
[22:15] <wxl> amcsi: right click, panel preferences, advanced, uncheck minimize reserve space under properties
[22:15] <wxl> amcsi: though i should mention that SHOULD be the default
[22:19] <amcsi> wxl, thanks, it was ticked (I might have ticked it myself by accident at some point). However unticking and clicking OK didn'z fix ti
[22:19] <wxl> amcsi: well, that's usually the solution. what application is causing the problems?
[22:20] <amcsi> wxl, Chrome and Hexchat
[22:20] <amcsi> especially with Hexchat it sucks because the input field for typing goes under the tray
[22:21] <wxl> amcsi: that's really strange. if you move it somewhere else, does it still have the same problem?
[22:21] <amcsi> oh wait
[22:21] <amcsi> it works now
[22:21] <amcsi> ticked
[22:21] <amcsi> strange
[22:21] <amcsi> wxl, thanks so much!
[22:21] <wxl> amcsi: np :)