[20:24] <rikai> Smygis, the GUI isnt removed.
[20:24] <zorglu_> !info nasm
[20:24] <ubotu> Package nasm does not exist in hardy
[20:24] <Smygis> Where is it then?
[20:24] <rikai> Smygis, you've done something to mess it up, and therefore it doesnt work.
[20:24] <DanaG> OOh, something new I just figured out: you can send files over Bonjour in Pidgin.
[20:24] <DanaG> Sweet.
[20:25] <rikai> nasm does too exist, ubotu, you silly bot...
[20:25] <mrtimdog> Quick one, if anyone else uses screenlets clock, or cairo-clock, are theirs 1 second slow and 2 seconds slow respectively?
[20:25] <zorglu_> rikai: do you know the version available ?
[20:25] <Smygis> rikai, whats the name of it so i can start it from a terminal.
[20:25] <x1250> Smygis: you'll probably missing your monitor vertical and horizontal refresh rates on xorg.conf
[20:27] <Smygis> OMG! It whas fine untill a changed grafixcard 20 minutes ago
[20:27] <rikai> zorglu_, 0.99.06-2 according to ubuntu.
[20:28] <zorglu_> rikai: arg... i need 2.02 aka the last stable from http://nasm.sourceforge.net/
[20:28] <RyanPrior> !info nasm
[20:28] <ubotu> Package nasm does not exist in hardy
[20:28] <RyanPrior> That is weird. Bot must be broken.
[20:28] <x1250> Smygis: could you elaborate a bit? more info = more help
[20:28] <RyanPrior> You suck, Ubotu.
[20:28] <rikai> x1250, wont it pick sane defaults if he moves xorg.conf?
[20:29] <x1250> rikai: it could, but its just a software guess
[20:31] <rikai> well, i was going to try and help him troubleshoot... but he's gone and left... >.>
[20:31] <x1250> Ah, I don't even realize when people leave, I disabled join/part messages :)
[20:33] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/188226
[20:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188226 in linux "Kernel should use CONFIG_FAIR_CGROUP_SCHED" [High,Fix released]
[20:33] <DanaG> What about the -generic kernel?
[20:36] <jimqode> Xnest does not redraw correctly. I'm running it with Xnest -ac. Any ideas?
[20:37] <pepie34> since the new kernel update
[20:37] <pepie34> wifi is not working
[20:38] <pepie34> keep having a lot of Rx invalid nwid
[20:39] <mindframe-> what are the advantages of using pulseaudio?
[20:39] <mindframe-> as opposed to alsa?
[20:40] <Finnish> How to get latest Bluez-packets?
[20:40] <jimqode> mindframe-, pulseaudio can make virtual audio cables that connect applications' sound inputs/outputs to each other, and it can also mix the sounds from each application with differing volumes
[20:40] <Finnish> Latest kernel broke my bluetooth-connection
[20:40] <mindframe-> mm
[20:41] <nemo> jimqode: pulseaudio also does streaming no?
[20:42] <x1250> Finnish: you can installed your previous kernel with aptitude. linux-image, linux-headers, linux-ubuntu-modules and linux-restricted-modules
[20:42] <x1250> install*
[20:43] <Finnish> Hmm
[20:43] <x1250> for example if you want to install 2.6.24-12, then linux-image-2.6.24-12-generic, etc.
[20:43] <Finnish> Or should I wait for something in the future?
[20:44] <Finnish> I'm quite happy ATM with Hardy
[20:44] <x1250> its your choice
[20:44] <jimqode> nemo, what do you mean by streaming?
[20:44] <Finnish> Yeah, as always
[20:44] <x1250> i wouldn't wait, there is no good reason
[20:45] <Finnish> I know it was something about bluez-utils
[20:45] <h3sp4wn> Finnish: It broke my bluetooth also -
[20:45] <DanaG> PulseAudio doesn't do virtual-audio-cables, I believe.
[20:46] <DanaG> I haven't seen how to do it, at least.
[20:46] <h3sp4wn> But building all new userland stuff from the bluez site didn't fix it
[20:46] <Finnish> h3sp4wn: I looked for some launchpad-tips etc, but got nothing
[20:46] <Finnish> You tried?
[20:46] <nemo> jimqode: I thought pulseaudio service allowed for pushing audio to other linux machines
[20:47] <h3sp4wn> I did - part of bluez is missing also
[20:47] <nemo> jimqode: occurred to me I could do easy networked sound at home if that was case, but hadn't looked into it yet
[20:47] <nemo> music in every room
[20:47] <jimqode> nemo, I think it does.
[20:48] <DanaG> Yup.
[20:48] <DanaG> copy .pulse-cookie from one computer to the others you want to allow to use that one.
[20:48] <Finnish> h3sp4wn: So I guess it is just a matter of time when it's fixed?
[20:48] <h3sp4wn> pulse adds so much latency (noticed it with ut2004)
[20:50] <graft_> if only pulse could push to itunes
[20:50] <jimqode> h3sp4wn, in theory pulse should add 0 latency. But i didn't measure it.
[20:50] <nemo> DanaG: nifty. will have to play with it
[20:51] <arachnist> graft_: well, pulse should be able to push audio to osx
[20:51] <graft_> there's no pulse for osx, arachnist
[20:51] <nemo> graft_: perhaps one of the iphone dev community  internet radio apps supports pulseaudio...
[20:51] <graft_> does anyone get firefox crashes with 'pulse_stop: Assertion `pcm->stream' failed.'?
[20:51] <h3sp4wn> jimqode: Well with OSS4 I can run ut2004 everything on max at 1920x1200
[20:51] <DanaG> PulseAudio doesn't work with oss4.
[20:51] <h3sp4wn> With pulse its unplayable without turning loads of stuff down
[20:51] <DanaG> And oss4 hard-locks with my Audigy2 card.
[20:51] <h3sp4wn> (and Alsa + pulse)
[20:52] <evan_> wich keyboard profile must i choose by default us international ( alt gr death keys ) wont give me double quotes?
[20:52] <evan_> dead keys*
[20:52] <DanaG> altgr deadkeys works fine for me.
[20:52] <DanaG> Odd.
[20:52] <jimqode> h3sp4wn, you can configure pulse to use oss as its interface. There shouldn't be a latency difference between alsa and pulse though
[20:52] <DanaG> I tried it and got an assertion failure, or a segfault, or something, with oss4.
[20:53] <graft_> i thought oss is just a compatibility layer sitting on top of alsa these days?
[20:53] <evan_> DanaG indeed wierd now i got quotes again :|
[20:53] <pepie34> am I the only one to have wifi probleme since the last kernel update?
[20:54] <derspankster> pepie: I had no problem, using B43
[20:54] <pepie34> I'm using madwifi-svn since AR5008 are not suported with the restricted module
[20:55] <pepie34> I'm booting back in 2.6.24-12 and everything work
[20:56] <mindframe-> I'm having a problem getting pulseaudio working: audiotestsrc wave=sine freq=512 ! audioconvert ! audioresample ! gconfaudiosink: Failed to connect: Connection refused - Does this mean the server isn't running?
[20:56] <h3sp4wn> jimqode: Its noticable between OSS4 and Alsa the latency issue
[20:57] <jimqode> h3sp4wn, but that is a problem with alsa, not pulseaudio.
[20:57] <ihasn> am i the only person not having problems with 8.04?
[20:57] <graft_> yep
[20:57] <ihasn> hardy got everything fiesty couldnt get working
[20:58] <jimqode> I am also not having problems
[20:58] <graft_> well pulseaudio is still buggy for me
[20:58] <h3sp4wn> jimqode: Yep the thing is most of what makes pulse useful for Alsa is not an issue for OSS anyway
[20:58] <graft_> at least firefox/pulseaudio is
[20:58] <Lynoure> ihasn: What kind of problems are you not having, and do you need help with that? :)
[20:58] <graft_> but i think that's the only bug i have
[20:58] <pepie34> I've got some problem in audacityt
[20:58] <pepie34> the ouput plugin may vary
[20:59] <pepie34> not always select alsa default
[20:59] <pepie34> do no why
[20:59] <ihasn> i am having a problem with stable power to my chu...we keep getting mortared and the guys working on the generator cant finish cleaning it
[20:59] <x1250> I have some problems with flickering on with 3d apps + ati drivers + compiz, but that seems to be a known issue. 8.04 works ok...
[20:59] <pepie34> an other person with wifi or madwifi problem with the last kernel ?
[21:00] <h3sp4wn> I am just using 0.9.4 built myself
[21:00] <ihasn> pepie ive always had a problem with wifi and the wpasupplement with the 2.6 kernal
[21:01] <h3sp4wn> ath5k seems promising
[21:01] <h3sp4wn> I just cannot get it to see channels 12/13
[21:01] <ihasn> only way i can get wifi to work is after i verify my wifi crap works with an unsecured network
[21:02] <ihasn> h3sp4wn maybe 12/13 have to much noise from other devices in your hosue?
[21:02] <h3sp4wn> ihasn: My network has been on 13 since forever
[21:02] <h3sp4wn> Because there is much less noise
[21:02] <ihasn> nm that then
[21:03] <h3sp4wn> ihasn: Are you just using /etc/network/interfaces
[21:04] <ihasn> im not using anything...havnt needed wifi since i got all paranoid and installed network lines in each room
[21:04] <sourcemaker> how can I install the vmware-server on hardy?
[21:04] <h3sp4wn> I wish I had done that - took me 6 months to get a reliable wireless going (and there is 4 routes)
[21:04] <ihasn> sourcemaker you check apt-get?
[21:05] <sourcemaker> ihasn: yes... I have... but there is no package... I think there is an additional repository required to install the vmware server
[21:05] <ihasn> you check the senaptic(sp?) source?
[21:06] <h3sp4wn> Well the source package is what makes linux-restricted-mpdules so big
[21:07] <h3sp4wn> sourcemaker: Any reason why not virtualbox
[21:07] <ihasn> h3sp4wn, a coder is going to shoot me for this, but thats why god invented bigger harddrives and fatter pipes
[21:07] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: I have already installed WIndows on VMWARE
[21:07] <h3sp4wn> sourcemaker: You can convert the images with qemu-img if you want
[21:08] <h3sp4wn> I installed it for my little brother yesterday and am pretty impressed so far
[21:08] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: what's the package: virtualbox-ose?
[21:09] <h3sp4wn> sourcemaker: I got the less free deb from virtualbox
[21:09] <jbroome> apt-cache search virtualbox
[21:09] <sourcemaker> !virtualbox
[21:09] <ubotu> virtualbox is a x86 !virtualizer. A !free edition is available in !Gutsy as 'virtualbox-ose'. A non-free edition is available at http://virtualbox.org for most Ubuntu releases (help in #vbox) - Setup details at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox
[21:11] <joachim_> is the linux-image-virtual kernel better than the standard generic kernel for running VMware?
[21:11] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: I will try this now
[21:11] <nosrednaekim> joachim_: something tels me that for XEN
[21:12] <h3sp4wn> vmware really doesn't like the timer to run at anything other than 100hz
[21:12] <joachim_> nosrednaekim, at least VMware seems to be running flawlessly on the generic kernel
[21:13] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: can you tell me... how I can convert my 40GB vmware files?
[21:13] <joachim_> h3sp4wn, and what frequency is the timer using for virtual and generic kernels?
[21:14] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: will module do I require? server|gerneric|virtual?
[21:14] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: which module...
[21:16] <savvas> bah, another linux kernel upgrade and i just rebooted :P
[21:16] <ihasn> sourcemaker...gerneric is always a good choice when you dont know
[21:16] <h3sp4wn> joachim_: generic is 250
[21:16] <sourcemaker> ihasn: are there big differences?
[21:16] <ihasn> i dunno
[21:16] <savvas> neah
[21:16] <orvokki> Is it a desktop computer?
[21:17] <ihasn> but ive never gone wrong with generic
[21:17] <savvas> it's a really small difference of speed
[21:17] <orvokki> For desktop afaik mostly -rt if works and -generic otherwise.
[21:17] <h3sp4wn> sourcemaker: If you get the deb straight from virtualbox then as part of installing it then it builds the modules for you
[21:18] <orvokki> Oh, sorry. I think I just mixed up two conversations...
[21:18] <orvokki> Reading back.
[21:18] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: can I also install the linux-image-2.6.24-14-rt for my destop system? Is this kernel running faster?
[21:19] <orvokki> Might be more responsive in desktop use. Not faster as such.
[21:20] <h3sp4wn> I wouldn't use a rt kernel with any virtualisation
[21:20] <sourcemaker> orvokki: are you using rt?
[21:20] <orvokki> Sure.
[21:20] <orvokki> h3sp4wn: Hmm, I wouldn't know about that.
[21:20] <orvokki> But you might be right.
[21:21] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: Now... I installed the generic module... how can I convert my vmware image?
[21:23] <h3sp4wn> sourcemaker: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine/HowTo/Switching_From_VMWare_To_VirtualBox:_.vmdk_To_.vdi_Using_Qemu_+_VdiTool
[21:23] <_moro_bana_> hello, i have a q? on gutsy.allowed?

[21:24] <cwillu> omg pulseaudio is such a piece of crap

[21:24] <orvokki> cwillu: What's the issue?
[21:24] <cwillu> it's blown out my ears three times in the last hour
[21:24] <cwillu> full volume white static
[21:24] <orvokki> I've so far liked PulseAudio.
[21:24] <cwillu> stereo has reversed twice in the last hour
[21:25] <orvokki> Then again, I keep my volume at max usually and control volume via stereos.
[21:25] <cwillu> and occasionally I just get glitchy audio with a 5 full-volume echo's of everything that plays
[21:25] <orvokki> Can't go at least louder accidentally.
[21:26] <cwillu> orvokki, yes, but with a decent recording, going from the music straight to full spectrum noise is _very_ loud
[21:26] <orvokki> Right.
[21:26] <cwillu> me no like that :p
[21:26] <h3sp4wn> Even with the best algorithm set and the test sine wave I never got it bit perfect
[21:26] <orvokki> I wonder why I haven't had any of those probs.
[21:27] <cwillu> me has a very nice set of headphones to focus aformentioned white-noise into his skull
[21:27] <orvokki> Updated your PulseAudio recently?
[21:27] <orvokki> Or rather, ran an upgrade all in all recently. :)
[21:27] <_moro_bana_> is there any client to connet to microsoft vpn other than kpvn
[21:27] <cwillu> I'm up to date as of yesterday, although I've been seeing this for a month or two (worse in the last little while I think though)
[21:28] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: There is a few ways it can be setup
[21:29] <orvokki> Hmm, System -> Administration -> Login Window working for everyone?
[21:29] <ihasn> yah
[21:30] <cwillu> orvokki, was broken on a laptop I was working on yesterday, haven't played with it a whole lot
[21:30] <cwillu> (login window that is)
[21:30] <cwillu> working on my desktop though
[21:30] <orvokki> It didn't start for me and my hard disk's making constant noise now.
[21:30] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: depending on how much pain the adminstrator is willing to go throu
[21:30] <_moro_bana_> h3sp4wn: other than kvpn? i would like to try that.because kpvnc is always giving me problems, last i got it to work, but dont really know how i did that
[21:30] <orvokki> This doesn't look good. I think I'll try to logout.
[21:31] <_moro_bana_> h3sp4wn: im prepared to learn
[21:31] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: It can do ipsec but its really painful and not worth the effort I don't think
[21:32] <h3sp4wn> http://pptpclient.sourceforge.net/ there is that or it could be using l2tp
[21:32] <mhollisjr>  I'm attempting to bind my forward and back keys on my mouse, and I have a working configuration, with one major problem, if I'm holding down my right mouse button at the same time, the event doesn't fire, so my question is how can I make it so that button works even if I'm holding down button 3, but not when I'm just hitting button 3, here's my relevant  .xbindkeysrc http://pastebin.com/d7ce7a1e8
[21:33] <h3sp4wn> mhollisjr: Make sure you are using evdev before you start
[21:33] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: I have a lot of vmdk files... how do I convert them all?
[21:34] <jk_> is there a way to change the funtions of one of my keys? i have a tiny backspace, i keep hitting the home button next to it, anyway to change home to backspace aswell
[21:34] <mhollisjr> h3sp4wn: that could fix this?
[21:35] <edgy> Hi, I did ufw deny 22/tcp and ufw status shows 22:tcp                     DENY    Anywhere but when I tried ssh myip it still works
[21:35] <jbroome> edgy: do you need to restart ufw after making a change?
[21:35] <h3sp4wn> mhollisjr: Its possible it might jut work without even needing to do anything
[21:36] <mhollisjr> -nod- I just checked adept, and evdev is not listed, where can I get that from?
[21:37] <h3sp4wn> Its part of X
[21:37] <h3sp4wn> xserver-xorg-input-evdev
[21:37] <NukeSkyjumper> ok, contain your laughter... my hardy box was rooted by a user with a shell
[21:37] <mhollisjr> sorry for being a pain where do I configure it then?
[21:37] <NukeSkyjumper> obviously that shouldn't even be possible
[21:38] <edgy> jbroome: I tried this but still same effect. iptables -L gives DROP       tcp  --  <IP_ADDRESS>/0            <IP_ADDRESS>/0           tcp dpt:22 which measn it already takes effect!
[21:38] <NukeSkyjumper> does anyone here have a suggestion of where (on the system) to look for the vulnerability, so it can be reported
[21:38] <edgy> jbroome: could it be because I am trying to ssh from my pc to my pc?
[21:39] <nosrednaekim> NukeSkyjumper: ask the person who exploited you
[21:39] <nosrednaekim> ^_^
[21:39] <jbroome> edgy: perhaps.  might be an exception for localhost
[21:39] <kaje1> Will the upgrade path from 8.04 BETA to 8.04 production be pretty painless or will it require a fresh reinstall?
[21:39] <nosrednaekim> NukeSkyjumper: did they have sudo access?
[21:39] <jk_> has anyone had a problem with the new kernel
[21:39] <NukeSkyjumper> nosrednaekim: not as an admin
[21:39] <h3sp4wn> mhollisjr: I read stuff on the gentoo wiki
[21:39] <edgy> jbroome: I am not ssh localhost, I am ssh <IP_ADDRESS>
[21:40]  * dwidmann is back.
[21:40] <jbroome> edgy: BTSOM
[21:40] <jbroome> dwidmann: thanks for the update.
[21:41] <mhollisjr> alright I'll see what I can find thanks
[21:41] <nosrednaekim> NukeSkyjumper: but they did have sudo?
[21:41] <dwidmann> jbroome: :D
[21:41] <jbroome> dwidmann: there was no ":D" implied in my statement
[21:42] <NukeSkyjumper> nosrednaekim: they had access to the sudo binary, of course. but no priveleges set up
[21:42] <dwidmann> jbroome: whatever you say
[21:42] <edgy> jbroome: np, thanks for your care
[21:42] <_moro_bana_> h3sp4wn:the ipsec thingy, will  that be all under CLI
[21:43] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: For Windows it will be in various policy editors
[21:43] <jbroome> !away | dwidmann
[21:43] <ubotu> dwidmann: You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair to new users.  (Please set your preferred nick in your client's settings instead.)  The same goes for using noisy away messages; use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently.  See also «/msg ubotu Guidelines»
[21:44] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: I would use Openvpn (even under windows)
[21:44] <_moro_bana_> h3sp4wn: im on ubuntu
[21:44] <nosrednaekim> NukeSkyjumper: maybe try #ubuntu-security
[21:44] <nemo> jbroome: #ubuntu+1 is now considered noisy?
[21:44] <Flannel> or -devel maybe
[21:44] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: But you control the server right ?
[21:45] <dennda> Does Totems new youtube plugin work for anyone?
[21:45] <dennda> I always get an error
[21:46] <_moro_bana_> h3sp4wn: no,just an ordinary user, want a vpn client for internet
[21:47] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: Well you have to find out what they use - is it your work or a univeristy or ?
[21:49] <White_Magic> Is that Upgrade problem fixed
[21:49] <White_Magic> I mean While using hardy?
[21:49] <White_Magic> the one thats was sopposed to be fixed within a day or so?
[21:50] <_moro_bana_> h3sp4wn: university network, im a student.ok
[21:51] <jbroome> _moro_bana_: you're going to need a machine outside your uni network to vpn *to*, you have one?
[21:51] <h3sp4wn> _moro_bana_: Are the instructions on how to connect online ?@
[21:51] <chdst> There was a simple GUI tool that you could use to change your video driver (not the restricted manager)...does anyone know what that is, or have one to recommend?
[21:52] <_boikhutso_> jbroome: ? as in my comp?
[21:52] <_boikhutso_> jbroome: or the internet server?
[21:54] <h3sp4wn> chdst: The displaysettings-gtk (I think thats the one) its never worked well in hardy for me
[21:55] <chdst> Thanks, h3sp4wn...that was what I was looking for.
[21:56] <ferric84> where did "screens and graphics" go?
[21:56] <h3sp4wn> For that stuff I have never sene anything work better than draxconf
[21:57] <_boikhutso_> jbroome: _morobana_ =boikhutso
[21:57] <h3sp4wn> (In pclinuxos - wonder why that wasnt packaged)
[21:57] <h3sp4wn> Think its mandriva who actually develop it though
[21:57] <_boikhutso_>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY gamaila
[21:57] <Flannel> bjwebb: you'll want to change that password
[21:57] <Flannel> _boikhutso_:
[21:58] <_boikhutso_> Flannel; yes?
[21:59] <ferric84> does anyone know why I can't see "screens and graphics" in preferences, but I can access it through the terminal?
[21:59] <bjwebb> Flannel: that wasn't for me, was it?
[22:00] <_boikhutso_> ferric84: try to add that to the main menu
[22:01] <_boikhutso_> ferric84: prefrences->main menu the add that
[22:04] <Gnine>                                               long live linux
[22:04] <insomninja> anyone know the current state on wacom (bamboo) support in hardy
[22:04] <insomninja> ?
[22:07] <macsim> am I the only one with hal broken after the last update ?
[22:07] <crimsun> a bit more specific, please?
[22:07] <Gnine> yes
[22:07] <jaffarkelshac> has the new kernal messed with anyone system
[22:07] <Gnine> no
[22:08] <macsim> sure, I made an update 2 hours ago with the kernel 2.6.24-15, and now when I start gnome I have the message Unable to initialize hal
[22:08] <Gnine> you got serious borkage if that happened
[22:09] <macsim> Gnine, so I do aptitude upgrade
[22:09] <cybercyst> stuff has been crashy since i updated today
[22:09] <Gnine> not here
[22:09] <macsim> aptitude install me gnome-desktop update and some lib
[22:10] <macsim> Gnine, everythings seams to work, I just loose network-applet and I have to dhclient my eth0 to get internet
[22:10] <cybercyst> anyone else here use the fglrx driver?
[22:11]  * dwidmann feels sorry for cybercyst
[22:11] <pen> lol
[22:11]  * Gnine uses nvidia
[22:11]  * cybercyst feels sorry for me too... until the open source driver comes out, which will kick arse
[22:11]  * dwidmann uses nvidia also
[22:11]  * pen feels sad.
[22:11] <cybercyst> really as i see it, ati si the only way to go
[22:11] <cybercyst> nvidia will be a binary blob forever
[22:11] <cybercyst> and intel hardware is poop
[22:12] <derspankster> better than SIS
[22:12] <dwidmann> cybercyst: Sure, as soon as ATI drivers aren't poop I'll take a gander :P
[22:12] <cybercyst> still, no one here is using fglrx?
[22:12] <Gnine> got nvidia on 2 machines by choice
[22:12] <Gnine> no issues
[22:12]  * pen use NVIDIA so no fglrx
[22:13] <h3sp4wn> I have been pretty happy with nvidia ever since I go this quadro in my laptop
[22:13] <cybercyst> i've been pretty happy with my ati, actually
[22:13] <pen> cybercyst: are u using intel? or AMD?
[22:14] <h3sp4wn> I prefer the picture quality on most ATI's
[22:14] <Gnine> that too.. amd ftw
[22:14] <pen> oh
[22:14] <googlah> Anyone in here playing Sauerbraten on Hardy?
[22:14] <pen> Have you guys heard of playonlinux?
[22:14] <cybercyst> amd
[22:14] <jaffarkelshac> what is Sauerbraten googlah
[22:15] <pen> It's like a script center for installing various windows games to linux
[22:15] <pen> jaffarkelshac: google... it's a famous FPS for linux
[22:15] <jaffarkelshac> does wine not work for windows games?
[22:15] <googlah> An very nice FPS-game. jaffarkelshac
[22:15] <pen> jaffarkelshac: not every game
[22:15] <googlah> like enemy of territories.
[22:16] <cybercyst> that is my problem, right now there is fglrx/wine borkage
[22:16] <cybercyst> that is my only problem with fglrx
[22:16] <jaffarkelshac> i will try it out, i asked this room a while back and i got quake simlar games, et, openarena nexuiz.
[22:16] <cybercyst> and then it is only suspected borkage, i was hoping for verification
[22:16]  * dwidmann disappears to play Q4
[22:16] <kaje1> Will the upgrade path from 8.04 BETA to 8.04 production be pretty painless or will it require a fresh reinstall?
[22:16] <pen> jaffarkelshac: you like FPS?
[22:16] <Gnine> sauerbraten only got 3 stars in popularity
[22:17] <jaffarkelshac> i do, a lot pen
[22:17] <pen> kaje1: it should be be painless.
[22:17] <googlah> Then I can recommend Sauerbraten (just apt-get it), but mine will not work from yesterday jaffarkelshac. :(
[22:17] <pen> jaffarkelshac: cool, then what kind of FPS you like?
[22:17] <dotech> anyone ever use a HeadRoom Total BitHead mobile headphone amplifier with Hardy?
[22:17] <dotech> 'cuz im about to try
[22:17] <jaffarkelshac> well i play source, battlefield 2, unreal
[22:18] <googlah> but I had 150-200 frames per second while it was working, such an performance to be ubuntu and *unix :)
[22:18] <pen> jaffarkelshac: i see, so fast pace
[22:18] <pen> jaffarkelshac: you should be happy with the quake like games in ubuntu
[22:18] <ethana2> tremulous
[22:19] <ethana2> nexuiz, openarena, alienarena, warsow, sauerbraten
[22:19] <ethana2> and the up-and-coming apricot.... though that's not very quake-like ;)
[22:19] <pen> you even can install cod4 to ubuntu
[22:19] <ethana2> give crystal core a spin and see how you like it
[22:19] <ethana2> cod4??!
[22:19] <pen> well not exactly install
[22:19] <jaffarkelshac> i like nexuiz, very fast pace
[22:19] <pen> yea
[22:19] <ethana2> Call of Duty FOUR?
[22:19] <ethana2> What--
[22:19] <pen> It's possible
[22:19] <ethana2> wow!
[22:20] <ethana2> I have CoD2
[22:20] <googlah> what game do you guys recommend?
[22:20] <ethana2> 4, whoa
[22:20] <googlah> than sauerbraten
[22:20] <pen> yes, you can install that too
[22:20] <jaffarkelshac> i am yet to install a game like bf2 with wine
[22:20] <nemo> googlah: Spring
[22:20] <nemo> googlah: runs natively, nice graphics, fun RTS
[22:20] <ethana2> googlah: all the ones I mentioned
[22:20] <ethana2> give them all a try
[22:20] <ethana2> and Spring for rts, yeah
[22:20] <pen> give all the games a try.
[22:20] <pen> wirh wine
[22:20] <ethana2> yup
[22:20] <ethana2> not like it costs you anything
[22:20] <nemo> googlah: spring + spring lobby
[22:20] <googlah> cool. fetchable through apt-get nemo?
[22:21] <jaffarkelshac> but i think since online requires an encrypted registry cd-key
[22:21] <nemo> googlah: dunno. I tend to build it myself. is fairly trivial, and that way I can test release and HEAD
[22:21] <nemo> googlah: the spring wiki has the apt-get line for the build deps :)
[22:21] <nemo> googlah: probably is in apt-get though
[22:21] <ethana2> firefox: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :1.0.
[22:21] <ethana2> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[22:21] <jaffarkelshac> sauerbraten is installing, i have to download a 230mb file though
[22:21] <ethana2> It's been doing this to me all week.....
[22:21] <pen> jaffarkelshac: yea
[22:21] <googlah> no, it wasn't nemo. hm, what is their website?
[22:21] <ethana2> games are big, it's the artwork
[22:21] <nemo> googlah: http://spring.clan-sy.com
[22:21] <pen> ethana2: when did it start doing that
[22:22] <ethana2> I don't remember exactly
[22:22] <pen> ethana2: and what did you do
[22:22] <ethana2> dual seat?
[22:22] <nemo> googlah: hm. website is being a little slow for me
[22:22] <spudgunner> spring is awesome
[22:22] <ethana2> pen: how do I get more details?
[22:22] <googlah> jaffarkelshac: yep. :) if you have a good line it will go fast though. try instagib while on net
[22:22] <nemo> googlah: http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Linux_Page
[22:22] <jaffarkelshac> 2 min left
[22:22] <pen> ethana2: just tell me what did you do before it starts the error
[22:22] <sourcemaker> is there a vmware package for hardy?
[22:22] <nemo> googlah: http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Ubuntu_install
[22:22] <ethana2> nothing in particular
[22:23] <ethana2> I'll be chatting in pidgin
[22:23] <ethana2> and firefox will just explode
[22:23] <pen> can u reinstall firefox?
[22:23] <ethana2> ...or I can be using firefox, and it'll disappear just the same
[22:23] <nemo> googlah: my current favourite Spring mods are Balanced Annihilation (of course) and E&E
[22:23] <ethana2> uhh
[22:23] <ethana2> you think a broken package?
[22:23] <ethana2> I just want the next beta
[22:23] <ethana2> in hopes that whatever it is has been fixed
[22:24] <googlah> nemo: cool. I'll give it a try
[22:24]  * ethana2 checks updates for ff3b5
[22:24] <nemo> googlah: I hang out in #taspring - we should play a game
[22:24] <ethana2> oh
[22:24] <nemo> googlah: BTW, the best AIs for spring are AAI and KAI 0.13
[22:24] <ethana2> partial upgrade....
[22:24] <pen> ethana2: just try it, reinstall
[22:24] <nemo> googlah: KAI 0.13 cheats so is a little stronger than AAI.
[22:24] <jaffarkelshac> googlah, 1 shot kill game nice
[22:24] <ethana2> I think I broke my apt
[22:24] <pen> ethana2: why?
[22:24] <ethana2> golden gun ;)
[22:24] <googlah> cool nemo. I'll add the repo's, and then go for "spring" and "spring-lobby"
[22:25] <ethana2> it says partial upgrade..
[22:25] <ethana2> and then
[22:25] <ethana2> you identified?  I'm going to pm you this
[22:25] <dotech> I/O error
[22:25] <ethana2> pen: you see it?
[22:25] <dotech> Error reading boot CD. :(
[22:26] <ethana2> brb
[22:26] <dotech> SATA dvd-rw
[22:26] <pen> ethana2: yes
[22:26] <googlah> nemo: I'll join #taspring
[22:27] <ethana2> ...any thoughts?
[22:28] <pen> ethana2: didn't I pm you back?
[22:28] <jaffarkelshac> googlah, instagib is not in repo
[22:28] <pen> ethana2: use command line
[22:28] <ethana2> you did not
[22:28] <ethana2> terminal open
[22:29] <pen> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[22:29] <slipttees> hardy released in shipit ?
[22:29] <ethana2> ok, looks like it's happy for now
[22:29] <ethana2> it's removing some stuff, installing some stuff
[22:30] <dotech> I wonder why I can't read the boot CD.
[22:30] <dotech> The ubuntu screen comes up and it loads kernel 100%, then the error pops up
[22:30] <dotech> 8042009F in the top left
[22:31] <dotech> i assume that is some error code in hexadecimal
[22:31] <pen> ethana2: :)
[22:31] <dotech> I/O error: Error reading boot CD.
[22:31] <dotech> ill try changing the SATA configuration in my BIOS
[22:31] <googlah> jaffarkelshac: In the game i mean.
[22:31] <googlah> server list. instagib.
[22:32] <googlah> :)
[22:32] <jaffarkelshac> ohhh
[22:32] <jaffarkelshac> i thought it was a game
[22:32] <dotech> instagib dm-17
[22:32] <genpfault> Is there any way to set Xorg 7.3 to use nvidia instead of nv in config-less mode?
[22:32] <jaffarkelshac> brb
[22:32] <orvokki> Define config-less mode.
[22:33] <genpfault> Where you just remove your xorg.conf and let X autodetect everything
[22:33] <sourcemaker> how can I configure the grub root... after installing the new kernel... the menu.lst has been re-generated... but wrong... root (hd0,0) instead of root (hd1,0)
[22:33] <pen> sourcemaker: can you boot?
[22:33] <Gnine> check system>administration>hardware drivers   enable restricted
[22:34] <pen> sourcemaker: if you can boot then it's correct isn't it?
[22:34] <orvokki> Hmm, a new set of nvidia-glx-new seems to be out.
[22:34] <White_Magic> Is there anyway to Overide FF3b4's Decline of Plugins because they dont provide "Secure" Updates?
[22:34] <sourcemaker> pen: well.... I have to change the root in the grub menu...
[22:34] <sourcemaker> pen: without changes... I can't boot the system
[22:35] <orvokki> Kinky, kernel+headers @ 2.6.24-15 seem to already be out.
[22:35] <pen> sourcemaker: are you in ubuntu?
[22:35] <sourcemaker> pen: I am using kubuntu hardy
[22:36] <pen> sourcemaker: I mean, did you change the root at the grub?
[22:36] <pen> sourcemaker: when you boot
[22:36] <Gnine> to edit grub, open terminal , do  sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[22:36] <genpfault> Gnine: the nvidia driver works fine with my old xorg.conf, it's just that I can't find any way to get X to prefer it over the nv driver in config-less mode
[22:36] <sourcemaker> pen: yes...
[22:36] <sourcemaker> pen: and then I have changed the value in the menu.lst
[22:36] <pen> sourcemaker: actually there is an app which can simplify your grub men.lst to GUI
[22:36] <mindframe-> how can I disable the 2nd workspace in gnome?
[22:36] <Gnine> once the restricted driver is selected whatever you imply wont matter
[22:37] <pen> it's called QGRUBEditor
[22:37] <pen> try it
[22:37] <ethana2> mindframe-: right click the applet
[22:37] <pen> change on the fly
[22:37] <sourcemaker> pen: where is the difference? I can also edit this file on console....
[22:37] <ethana2> mindframe-: preferences
[22:37] <ethana2> it should be obvious from there
[22:37] <sourcemaker> pen: but I have to change the config on each kernel update ;-)
[22:37] <dotech> should i configure my SATA devices as AHCI?
[22:38] <dotech> or leave them as IDE, IDE seems to be causing problems with the boot cd
[22:38] <pen> sourcemaker: no, I don't think so, usually grub will detect your root automatically
[22:38] <pen> sourcemaker: I don't understand why it changes to the wrong one
[22:38] <jaffarkelshac> i just tried out the game, very very fast paced
[22:38] <pen> for you
[22:38] <sourcemaker> I have three partitions... maybe there is something wrong
[22:38] <sourcemaker> i mean three hard disks
[22:39] <pen> sourcemaker: ok..
[22:39] <pen> sourcemaker: whatever, try QGRUBEditor
[22:40] <pen> you would love it if you like GUI
[22:41] <jaffarkelshac> googlah, very good game
[22:42] <dotech> man this is a nightmare
[22:42] <dotech> i can't even get the boot cd to work :\
[22:42] <googlah> jaffarkelshac: it sure is. was it smooth for you?
[22:42] <jaffarkelshac> googlah, very good, and it is smooth, i have not tried online yet
[22:42] <dotech> has anyone installed hardy with a sata optical drive?
[22:43] <googlah> great. we should play, although mine is not working. lol
[22:43] <dwidmann> dotech: I have
[22:43] <dotech> it doesn't seem to work right, i've tried IDE and AHCI modes
[22:44] <dotech> in IDE mode i get i/o errors after the kernel load 100%
[22:44] <dotech> in AHCI mode the boot cd isn't detected as a bootable disc
[22:44] <dwidmann> dotech: that's no fun, are you dead positive it's that specific drive?
[22:44] <dotech> nope, i only have 1 sata drive
[22:45] <dotech> i just built this pc last night
[22:45] <dwidmann> dotech: if it's not being detected as bootable ... that's probably the motherboards fault.
[22:45] <dotech> in 7.10 i can boot into ubuntu
[22:45] <dwidmann> dotech: I built mine last week :)
[22:45] <dotech> in 8.04 it fails after it says kernel 100% with "Error reading CD"
[22:45] <dotech> I could try burning the CD again for Hardy
[22:45] <dotech> at a slower speed :)
[22:46] <dwidmann> dotech: come to think of things, I was using the alternate, but it booted up okay. (I had other issues with the installer though)
[22:46] <dotech> I'll try burning at 4x
[22:46] <dwidmann> dotech: run the "check cd for errors" thing?
[22:46] <dotech> that's always worked for PS2 games
[22:46] <dotech> yea same error when i try that
[22:46] <dwidmann> Fun fun
[22:46] <dotech> we'll see, ill reburn it
[22:46] <dwidmann> Which drive did you get so I can remind myself not to buy one?
[22:46] <googlah> jaffarkelshac: yeah.. it is good to see ubuntu really keep up the performance. :-)
[22:46] <x1250> you could install 7.10 and full-upgrade to 8.04 also
[22:47] <jaffarkelshac> googlah, oh yeah, i switched last week and i use my windows less and less
[22:47] <dotech> dwidmann, haha, its this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151153
[22:47] <dotech> i think its probably just the CD though, i'm trying again now :)
[22:48] <dwidmann> dotech: kay then
[22:48] <googlah> jaffarkelshac: me too. :D
[22:48] <Gnine> there is a possible firmware issue
[22:48] <dwidmann> That's a good drive, I can almost guarentee you it's not the drive. in fact, if you click all reviews, mine is third from the top
[22:48] <dotech> x1250, if i have to i'll do that
[22:49] <dotech> dwidmann, its not the drive i used to burn the cd though
[22:49] <jaffarkelshac> i do with it had a broader game though googlah
[22:49] <orvokki> Right, just updated to 2.6.24-15, seems to work fine.
[22:49] <dotech> haha good
[22:49] <dotech> should i run the drive as AHCI?
[22:49] <dotech> or IDE?
[22:50] <dwidmann> dotech: I'm running it as AHCI and it seems to be doing okay
[22:50] <dotech> ok nice
[22:50] <dwidmann> dotech:  though I changed this yesterday, when I installed I had it set to IDE (it was the default on the board)
[22:50] <dotech> hmm ok, good to note
[22:50] <dotech> i tried both and they did act differently
[22:50] <dotech> in 7.10 i have to use the "irqprobe" workaround
[22:51] <nemo> eep
[22:51] <dotech> but with that it works fine
[22:51] <nemo> 226 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 9 not upgraded.
[22:51] <nemo> Need to get 245MB of archives.
[22:51] <nemo> After this operation, 778kB of additional disk space will be used.
[22:51] <nemo> ok. clearly things change fast
[22:51] <dwidmann> dotech: Might be your motherboard
[22:51] <geniehost> hello everybody how to install CompizConfig in 8.4?
[22:51] <dotech> Abit IP-35 Pro
[22:51] <dotech> i hope its not the motherboard, its a quality part
[22:51] <Gnine> !ccsm | geniehost
[22:51] <ubotu> geniehost: To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy), install 'compizconfig-settings-manager'. A new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz-fusion
[22:52] <dwidmann> Doesn't mean that it's fully supported/not buggy to use
[22:52] <dotech> true
[22:52] <dwidmann> What are the chipsets on that board?
[22:52] <Gnine> same for 8.04 , geniehost
[22:52] <dotech> actually you know what, its definitely this CD-RW
[22:52] <dotech> TDK is crap :)
[22:52] <dwidmann> I think it's the southbridge that matters IIRC, mine has an ICH9R southbridge dotech
[22:53] <dotech> i've had issues with this in the past now that i thought about it, i'll use a sony disc instead
[22:53] <h3sp4wn> The most reliable I have ever seen compiz is on SuSe SLED
[22:53] <h3sp4wn> With Xgl + nvidia
[22:53] <dotech> dwidmann, i think i have the same southbridge
[22:53] <White_Magic> I thought Nvida didnt need XGL?
[22:54] <x1250> is it possible to get smooth scrolling with touchpad in hardy?
[22:54] <dotech> burning on a sony cd-rw @ 7x, this should do it
[22:54] <dotech> cd-r rather
[22:54] <dwidmann> dotech: certainly hope so\
[22:54] <Gnine> i only have normal settings with no ccsm ... all i need
[22:54] <dwidmann> dotech: I never use
[22:54] <dwidmann> RW's ....
[22:54] <dotech> yea me neither
[22:54] <dwidmann> (curse that enter key)
[22:54] <x1250> I found this post, but I don't know if it applies now: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=666828
[22:54] <h3sp4wn> White_Magic: Thats true but Novell did the testing etc
[22:54] <dotech> just a habbit of mine to say rw
[22:55] <dwidmann> dotech: non-rw's are sooooooo cheap
[22:55] <dotech> lol yea, i have like 500 of them here, i think they were free too
[22:55] <h3sp4wn> And are / were willing to support it properly
[22:55] <billisnice> welcome to the jungle
[22:55] <dotech> bootable cds always seem sensitive to the quality of the disc itself
[22:55] <dotech> and the speed at which it was burned
[22:56] <dwidmann> dotech: truth, I've coastered many a CD
[22:56] <dwidmann> dotech: especially with that one drive that went bad
[22:56] <geniehost> thanks Gnine
[22:56] <geniehost> Gnine, works
[22:56] <geniehost> ;)
[22:56] <Gnine> 10-4
[22:57] <White_Magic> is it safe to Update yet...?
[22:57] <jaffarkelshac> i did no problems i have the 15 now
[22:57] <jaffarkelshac> updates are coming in like water
[22:58] <White_Magic> I thought it had problems with Restricted Modules?
[22:58] <dwidmann> billisnice: We've got fun'n games
[22:58] <jaffarkelshac> the last two kernel updates took away my ability to control lcd brightness which i a annoyed about, i adjust when pc starts
[22:59] <dotech> dwidmann, booting up now, fingers crossed
[22:59] <dwidmann> dotech: what proc did you go with?
[22:59] <dotech> core 2 quad core, 6600
[22:59] <dotech> its temp is only 18C right now, which is amazing
[22:59] <dwidmann> :O
[22:59] <dotech> i have to OC it :)
[23:00] <dotech> i was planning to use this PC as a space heater
[23:00] <dwidmann> dotech: I'm going the other route, trying to make it silent.
[23:00] <dotech> other than my GPU fans it is silent
[23:00] <dotech> those GPU fans are quite annoying though
[23:00] <dwidmann> dotech: ordered a huge heatsink for my GPU the other day
[23:00] <dotech> any recommendation how to deal with that? (i have 2 video cards btw)
[23:01] <dotech> 7600GT BFG Tech, they're OC'd in the box
[23:01] <jaffarkelshac> is it really necessary to overclock in ubuntu?
[23:02]  * Gnine got two fans and it sounds like a pressurized plane cabin here
[23:02] <dwidmann> dotech: put a good heatsink on them, and use some large, quiet 120mm fans with good airflow around them maybe?
[23:02] <dwidmann> Gnine: replace them?
[23:02] <dwidmann> jaffarkelshac: depends what you want to do.
[23:02] <Gnine> i kind of like that noise
[23:02] <dwidmann> jaffarkelshac: ie: if you were folding, doing statistics stuff, etc, overclocking would definitely be useful
[23:03] <dotech> hmm yea i need 120MM on them
[23:03] <jaffarkelshac> dwidmann, but why, in windows i get it, its for games pretty much
[23:03] <dotech> my case has 5 120MM, 1 220MM, and the CPU's fan is like 90MM but its only 18dB
[23:03] <dotech> PSU is 120mm too
[23:03] <dotech> the GPUs are killer though
[23:03] <dwidmann> jaffarkelshac: overclocking the cpu generally isn't all that useful for games seeing as the GPU does all of the work, you'd need to overclock the GPU ....
[23:04] <dotech> actually CPU fan is 110mm
[23:04] <dwidmann> dotech: I've got 2 120mm, 2 80mm, and I have a 110mm on the CPU (16dB at lowest setting)
[23:04] <calc> dwidmann: overclocking the cpu helps to compile faster ;)
[23:04] <dotech> calc, exactly :)
[23:04] <dotech> and run unit tests faster
[23:04] <jaffarkelshac> i wonder how well games play under ubuntu with wine
[23:04] <calc> dotech: especially stuff like openoffice, hehe
[23:05] <sourcemaker> can I download the vmware-vdiskmanager to convert the images without downloading the complete vmware-server package?
[23:05] <jaffarkelshac> anyone tried
[23:05] <dotech> yep
[23:05] <jaffarkelshac> which game
[23:05] <dotech> damn, disk boot failure still
[23:05] <dwidmann> calc: yeah ... it'd be nice if there were some concurrency going on with the compiles :( .... My quad wants some work to do :)
[23:05] <calc> dwidmann: yea it doesn't work too well, there is support for it in the ubuntu packaging but its disabled by default
[23:05] <Gnine> !wine
[23:05] <ubotu> WINE is a compatibility layer for running Windows programs on GNU/Linux. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine for more information, and see !AppDB for application compatibility.
[23:05] <dotech> jaffarkelshac, sorry i meant yep to calc's comment
[23:06] <dotech> i haven't gotten ubuntu to boot yet :)
[23:06] <calc> dwidmann: when we had it enabled it would inevitably fail on the buildds a different one each time
[23:06] <jaffarkelshac> its fine
[23:06] <dotech> ok so with AHCI, i can't boot any ubuntu disc
[23:06] <dwidmann> calc: *nod* ... sad though, it took me 45mins to compile myself a kernel yesterday
[23:06] <calc> dwidmann: you can enable it if you want to compile your own ooo debs
[23:07] <jaffarkelshac> am off to play games
[23:07] <dotech> oh damn, i think its using the wrong boot device
[23:07] <teufelhunden> Hey, have a question about my GPU (8800 GT): In my efforts to get GLX working, the only driver I have found to work is the proprietery driver off of nvidia's website.  However, every time I restsart my computer the driver won't work untill I reinstall it.  Seeing as how I switch hardrives and reboot often, this is a... major inconvinence.  Any ideas?
[23:07] <dotech> it made up this "SATA CD" device, but it also has my real cd drive in the list
[23:07]  * Gnine does not think thats an ubuntu specific issue, dotech
[23:07] <dwidmann> dotech:  weirrrrrrrrrrrd.
[23:07] <dotech> yea i don't think so either
[23:08] <dotech> i'll figure it out on my own, definitely not a ubuntu problem
[23:08] <h3sp4wn> It shouldn't matter anyway its the whole point of the UUID stuff
[23:08] <nemo> teufelhunden: WAG - it hasn't been added to modules to load on startup
[23:08] <nemo> teufelhunden: so you keep reinstalling it to execute the modprobe
[23:09] <dwidmann> h3sp4wn: If only grub could use UUIDs instead of its own (hd,x) system ...
[23:09] <nemo> seems it'd be easy to test this by trying to do a modprobe instead of a reinstall
[23:09] <teufelhunden> Ok then
[23:09] <nemo> teufelhunden: and reason it isn't being loaded on startup is probably 'cause the nvidia installer sucked.
[23:09] <teufelhunden> Well, its the only way GLX works, so i'm kind of stuck there.
[23:09] <h3sp4wn> dwidmann: The bios usually can make sure that its going to boot from one
[23:09] <nemo> dwidmann: it can't?
[23:10] <nemo> h3sp4wn: once BIOS has loaded drive though. I see what he is saying
[23:10] <nemo> had a friend who was being...
[23:10] <nemo> oh wait. I remember what he did
[23:10] <nemo> he mucked with udev
[23:10] <nemo> made sure that certain UIDs always got certain drive letters
[23:10] <dwidmann> h3sp4wn: nemo: the hard drives sometimes end up out-of-order thgough, in which case grub goes crazy and you have to fix it manually.
[23:10] <nemo> that way his grub mappings were always right
[23:11] <Gnine> uuid has nothing to do with bootloading
[23:11] <nemo> dwidmann: you can work around that. tad annoying that it isn't default behaviour, but I guess it is to allow for sane drive swapping. ro something.
[23:11] <nemo> Gnine: UUID can be used for udev though
[23:11] <nemo> Gnine: which means you can map /dev/hdz to a specific drive
[23:11] <nemo> Gnine: then, your boot loader, which read its boot partition fine, can find the other drives correctly.
[23:11] <Gnine> thats the OS/kernel job
[23:11] <dotech> dwidmann, fixed :)
[23:11] <nemo> Gnine: I know :) I'm noting that's where he fixed it :-p
[23:12] <nemo> luckily not a problem I have
[23:12] <dwidmann> Basically, what I mean is, instead of telling grub to boot using root device hd(0,4), boot from UUID=.... - that would be nice.
[23:12] <dotech> after i changed the SATA chip from IDE to AHCI it didn't select the correct device as the boot device
[23:12] <dotech> it had SATA CDROM, which apparently isn't really my SATA cd rom
[23:12] <h3sp4wn> Sun has some really cool things its changed about grub
[23:13] <dotech> i had to select the TSblah-CCD device which was my real optical drive
[23:13] <nemo> dwidmann: yeah. just muck with udev.  then set your entries in your /boot/grub/device.map to match
[23:13] <nemo> dwidmann: almost as good as UUID in device.map
[23:13] <Gnine> that takes the flavor outta modular computing
[23:14] <nemo> Gnine: better than his issues with failing to boot every time he added/removed a drive.
[23:14] <dwidmann> nemo: , not really, but it's a fix, I just pulled my other drives for now. I plan on selling a couple of them, casing my 400GB, and I've kept the 750GB in.
[23:14] <h3sp4wn> The network attached storage stuff is worse to deal with
[23:14] <dwidmann> nemo: cut power consumption by about 40 watts by pulling those three drives out.
[23:14] <dwidmann> nemo: (down to ~105watts idle now)
[23:14] <nemo> nice.
[23:15] <nemo> I need to do more on that front. my computers are like half my house electrical bill these days :-/
[23:15] <dotech> haha
[23:15] <nemo> given the lights are all CFs.
[23:15] <dwidmann> dotech: I know what you mean ... my old rig was sucking about 300 watts on idle
[23:15] <nemo> dwidmann: yeah, that's like 20 compact flourescent bulbs.
[23:16] <h3sp4wn> My Sun is 625W idle
[23:16] <dwidmann> nemo: my laptop in battery mode, assuming ACPI isn't lying too bad, when I've tweaked things in powertop, uses no more than a compact fluorescent.
[23:16] <frostburn> where can I find the latest default configuration files?  I want to make sure a configuration file isn't in the new build, and or build open a bugreport ifso
[23:16] <dwidmann> h3sp4wn: That sounds expensive.
[23:17] <h3sp4wn> dwidmann: Fortunately I don't pay for my electricity whilst I am in uni accodation
[23:17] <Gnine> you are using a mainframe for desktop
[23:17] <h3sp4wn> Its a Sun Blade 1000 - its a workstation not a server
[23:17] <dotech> if i install hardy with only 1 of my 3 monitors hooked up will that change anything? i.e., will i have to do extra work to configure the other 2 monitors if i don't have them hooked up during the install?
[23:18] <dwidmann> h3sp4wn: You're lucky for that then
[23:18] <dwidmann> dotech: it probably won't set them up for you anyway, you'll have to do that yourself, using nvidia-settings command
[23:18] <dotech> ok
[23:19] <dwidmann> dotech: though I'm not sure how well it copes with three monitors, I know it works very well for two.
[23:19] <Gnine> default
[23:19] <h3sp4wn> Depends on the card as well
[23:20] <dwidmann> h3sp4wn: he has two 7600gts
[23:20] <dwidmann> (assuming I'm right in saying he, odds are statistically pretty good)
[23:20] <dotech> well, i'll get it working if its the last thign i do ;)
[23:20] <dotech> yes
[23:21] <sourcemaker> can I download vmware-vdiskmanager as a separed file? To download the complete vmware-server package does takes a long time with my slow dsl
[23:22] <dotech> damn it doesn't seem to detect my MS wireless mouse
[23:22] <almostdvs> "failed to run /usr/bin/synaptic ...   ... unable to copy Xauthorization file"   can anyone help?
[23:22] <dwidmann> dotech: maybe it will work with the evdev mouse driver?
[23:22] <dwidmann> (long shot, but hey, try it)
[23:23] <dotech> sure
[23:23] <h3sp4wn> sourcemaker: did you look / ? http://petruska.stardock.net/software/VMware.html
[23:24] <dotech> my wired usb mouse works :)
[23:24] <dotech> good enough for now
[23:25] <sourcemaker> h3sp4wn: it's not for linux...
[23:25] <dotech> the wireless usb should look the same so doubtful its a ubuntu problem
[23:27] <dotech> yep, works now, just old mouse problem :)
[23:27] <dotech> they get tired in old age
[23:32] <dredhammer> Hello guys just ran into an error with Hardy, all i did was install the OSE version of virtualbox did a reboot and the error Failed to Intialize HAL is there on boot
[23:33] <dredhammer> even though virtualbox is uninstalled it keeps popping up
[23:33] <dredhammer> and i have no net connection, right now this is via the live cd
[23:34] <boxybrown> will https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixCompleteVirtualMailSystemHowto work with hardy?
[23:36] <dotech> The ext3 file system creation in partition #1 of SCSI4 (0,0,0) (sda) failed. :\
[23:39] <dotech> guess i'll try setting the partitions manually
[23:39] <Thib_> hmm
[23:40] <dotech> seems to get to about 5% then dies
[23:40] <Thib_> I just got a new laptop and slapped the beta on it
[23:40] <Thib_> but it doesn't seem to be working out of the box
[23:41] <Thib_> I'm only able to choose between 640x480 and 800x600 resolution, and my wireless interface isn't listed anywhere
[23:41] <Thib_> so, overall, it seems that it's working but not recognizing quite everything I'd want it to.
[23:42] <Thib_> anybody can help me with that?
[23:42] <dredhammer> what's the video chipset Thib?
[23:42] <dotech> hehe, ubiquity closed unexpectedly, must have excepted
[23:43] <Thib_> I don't know; how can I find out? presumably by grep'ping for the right thing in dmesg or similar
[23:43] <dredhammer> well if its a new laptop it should be in the manual itself :)
[23:44] <dredhammer> intel?
[23:44] <dredhammer> via?
[23:44] <dredhammer> nvidia?
[23:44] <Thib_> oh I see
[23:44] <dredhammer> for the video chipset
[23:44] <Thib_> the spec page says NVIDIA GeForce Go 7150M
[23:44] <dredhammer> well
[23:44] <dredhammer> is the restricted drivers installed?
[23:44] <dredhammer> for nvidia
[23:44] <dotech> i hope ubiquity wasn't something important
[23:45] <dredhammer> no clue what that is dotech
[23:45] <dotech> me neither haha
[23:45] <dotech> its resizing the partition regardless
[23:45] <dotech> ah, that actually acquires drivers
[23:45] <Thib_> when I first logged in, a bubble told me that restricted drivers were in use, and it lists three such drivers.
[23:45] <dotech> gets 3rd party drivers
[23:46] <Thib_> one is "nvidia_new"; it says "Enabled" (the box is checked) but then in the next column it says "not in use"
[23:46] <larson9999> my screen resolution gets reset every time i reboot.  is there some setting i need to change so it's kept from one session to the next?
[23:46] <larson9999> i don't remember setting anything in previous versions for this to happen.
[23:47] <dredhammer> whats your video chipset/card larson9999?
[23:47] <dredhammer> Thib_ that may be your problem
[23:47] <dredhammer> enable the restricted nvidia drivers
[23:47] <larson9999> dredhammer, nvidia go2 or whatever the notation is for the laptop cards
[23:47] <dredhammer> then install the nvidia video settings tool
[23:48] <Thib_> how do I do that?
[23:48] <dredhammer> then set the correct screen resolution
[23:48] <Thib_> oh wait
[23:48] <Thib_> well
[23:48] <dredhammer> reboot and it should work
[23:48] <Thib_> for one thing the wireless doesn't work either
[23:48] <dredhammer> worked in previous ubuntu?
[23:48] <Thib_> so maybe if I fix that first then I can get online, then download some drivers :-)
[23:49] <Thib_> unfortunately I'm mixing two issues here; it's a new laptop
[23:49] <larson9999> dredhammer, you're in two conversations about similar topics!
[23:49] <dredhammer> eerie aint it?
[23:49] <Thib_> I tried 8.04beta on it but have no previous installation of Ubuntu on it, so I don't know if it worked previously or not
[23:49] <Thib_> the other two drivers listed in the bubble have to do with wireless, but they say "Enabled" and "in use"
[23:49] <dredhammer> larson9999 enable your restricted nvidia drivers install
[23:50] <larson9999> dredhammer, for me, the video card is installed properly and opengl works and everything.
[23:50] <dotech> anyone else ever have a problem with the guided partitioning?
[23:50] <dredhammer> then install nvidia settings
[23:50] <dredhammer> and edit your screen resolutions etc from there
[23:50] <dredhammer> then reboot
[23:50] <dotech> it seems to be failing to create the first partition because it fails trying to write the ext3 file system
[23:50] <mhollisjr> is there a way to use a keybinding to open dolphin?
[23:50] <dredhammer> make sure to unlock aka run the app as root
[23:50] <dredhammer> for the settings to be saved
[23:51] <larson9999> dredhammer, and nvidia settings are set correctly.  i change the resolution to the one i like, 1024/768.  when i reboot it reverts to a higher resolution.
[23:51] <dredhammer> did you launch it as temp root
[23:51] <dredhammer> sudo nvidia-settings
[23:51] <dredhammer> then save the configuration to xorg?
[23:51] <dredhammer> there should be a button to do that
[23:51] <dredhammer> in there
[23:51] <Thib_> the other two drivers listed are "Atheros hardware access layer" and "Support for Ahteros 802.11 wireless LAN cards"
[23:52] <dredhammer> hmm
[23:52] <Thib_> they both say "enabled" and "in use" but I don't see my wireless interface anywhere (network applet, ifconfig, iwconfig)
[23:52] <joh> Firefox broken for anyone else on hardy? It's suddenly extremely slow now and hangs every 10 seconds during it's 1min startup time.
[23:52] <dredhammer> well your wireless should be working
[23:52] <dotech> anyone have tips on how to debug the installer?
[23:52] <larson9999> dredhammer, yeah, and the resolution is in xorg.conf.  it's just not saving my user preference.
[23:53] <dotech> i don't mind getting a little dirty
[23:53] <dotech> it's failing during the partitioning, if i had some debug logs i could get somewhere
[23:54] <larson9999> nvidia-glx is in the upgrade.  guess i might as well wait to see how it behaves after the upgrade is finishe.
[23:54] <erle-> wow, there is really a hardy channel
[23:54] <erle-> i found it too late, all my problems are solved ;)
[23:54] <dotech> now you can help others :)
[23:54] <larson9999> joh, so far firefox3 is great here.
[23:54] <jaffarkelshac> i hope someone can help, really annoying me. i cant play sound from 2 diff sources. i have to close the first app first and sometimes, the second app wont have sound until restarti have to use a diff app to watch videos.
[23:55] <Thib_> it should be but it doesn't seem to be
[23:55] <Thib_> I don't see it listed anywhere
[23:55] <Thib_> where is there a list of various hardware on my machine
[23:55] <Thib_> I don't know where it's moved to
[23:55] <joh> larson9999: Hmm, wierd.
[23:55] <erle-> dotech, i was stupid enough to install hardy alpha on my working laptop
[23:55] <erle-> few days before beta should start
[23:55] <dotech> haha
[23:55] <erle-> but there haven't been very bad issues
[23:55] <dotech> i have a brand new system so no problems for me to reinstall or crash :)
[23:56] <dotech> only problem is i can't install
[23:56] <erle-> why not?
[23:56] <erle-> what system do you have?
[23:56] <dotech> guided partitioning fails trying to write the ext3 file system to partition #1
[23:56] <erle-> dotech, in the graphical installer?
[23:56] <larson9999> erle-, dell inspiron 8200 laptop
[23:57] <Thib_> does anybody know?
[23:57] <dotech> custom built, brand new hardware, sata hdd, sata cdrom, abit IP-35 pro motherboard, intel core 2 quad, 8gb memory, using 64-bit ubuntu cd
[23:57] <dotech> desktop
[23:57] <dotech> erle-, yea the graphical
[23:57] <dotech> its in the desktop running okay
[23:58] <erle-> and where do you think is the problem?
[23:58] <dotech> thats what i'm trying to figure out
[23:58] <erle-> try mke2fs manually
[23:58] <dotech> if i knew where to look for some logs i could start trying things
[23:58] <erle-> maybe it is a bug in the e2fs tools
[23:58] <jaffarkelshac> does anyone know any channel for discussing computer hardware
[23:58] <Turski> dotech: 64-bit on core 2?
[23:58] <dotech> ok ill try that
[23:58] <erle-> they are pretty fresh
[23:58] <|DuReX|> the access beyond end of device error should really be fixxed in Hardy when u are using dmraid
[23:59] <|DuReX|> its kinda messy
[23:59] <dotech> Turski, yea
[23:59] <erle-> Turski, yeah, i have it too
[23:59] <Turski> dotech: why? O_o
[23:59] <dotech> 8gb memory
[23:59] <Turski> but.. core2 isn't 64-bit?
[23:59] <Thib_> it used to be called Device Manager and it was under System > Administration > Hardware Information
[23:59] <dotech> i thought it was?
[23:59] <dotech> it says on the box haha
[23:59] <|DuReX|> core 2 is 64bit
[23:59] <Turski> wtf
[23:59] <Turski> is it?
[23:59] <dotech> yea
[23:59] <|DuReX|> yes


[03:55] <pwnguin> is there a virtual box image of ubuntu-MID or anything I can try out?
[09:52] <lool> pwnguin: Sorry we dont do this variant anymore
[16:10] <pwnguin> lool: you guys dont do Mer?
[16:34] <JamieBennett> pwnguin: no
[16:38] <pwnguin> #ubuntu-arm?
[16:39] <JamieBennett> pwnguin: A few of the mer guys hang out there but your better off at #mer
[16:39] <pwnguin> im just trying to make sense of this http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/ubuntu-mid-to-switch-from-moblin-to-mer/
[17:11] <lool> pwnguin: This is a news derived from a wiki page of a spec which wasn't implemented
[18:16] <rbelem> pwnguin, for lucid we will have ubuntu liquid remix, which will use hildon


[00:00] <Nafallo> I have the same problem. never know what day it is ;-)
[00:59] <masterkernel> how do I pass an option to dpkg-deb from make-kpkg?
[04:00] <TheMuso> dtchen: Interesting, I guess its worth a try.
[08:41] <zeroprog> hey guys is there a way to check which driver my device is using
[08:55] <TheMuso> zeroprog: Depends on how the device is connected to your machine.
[08:55] <TheMuso> zeroprog: If its a pci device, then "lspci -vvnn" should show you the driver associated with your device.
[09:10] <zeroprog> its a usb device
[09:11] <zeroprog> its an iphone if that helps
[09:21] <TheMuso> zeroprog: not sure then sorry.
[09:31] <zeroprog> ok thanks
[15:09] <peabody> yo
[15:10] <peabody> I'm trying to build a custom kernel, from the 9.04 deb packages and I've hit a snag in the documentation
[15:10] <peabody> I'm following this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CustomRestrictedModules to build my restricted modules
[15:11] <peabody> so I did my kernel config and built my header and image packages
[15:11] <peabody> but when I tried to install my image it executed /etc/kernel/postinst.d/nvidia-common exited with error code 20
[15:12] <peabody> so I grabbed the restricted modules stuff, but I don't have this abi version in my debian/rules
[15:13] <peabody> basically, the documentation isn't very clear what I should do next.
[15:13] <peabody> can anyone help?
[15:18] <masterkernel> Hello, I am in need of a reviewer for my package, kernelcheck. It is a GUI tool that can automatically (custom) build any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source with any patches the user wants.
[15:19] <masterkernel> it is on REVU.
[16:20] <peabody> masterkernel: you got a url?
[16:20] <masterkernel> peabody: to REVU? or the homepage?
[16:21] <masterkernel> REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
[16:22] <masterkernel> Homepage: http://kcheck.sf.net/
[16:23] <peabody> I'm just finishing up a new build right now, but I'll check it out
[16:24] <masterkernel> just use caution if you use the nVidia option in it
[16:25] <peabody> why's that? (I do use the nvidia modules)
[16:26] <masterkernel> best install it yourself then. it runs a script that uninstalls everything related to nVidia, downloads the newest version, then installs that (or a kernel module if the latest binary is already installed). It doesn't use dkms
[16:27] <peabody> thanks for the warning
[16:28] <masterkernel> i just know i'm gonna get a lot of crap from people who don't know much about kernel modules and dkms
[16:28] <peabody> it sounds like it fills a needed gap, thanks for the dev work
[16:28] <peabody> of course
[16:29] <masterkernel> i havent fully updated the website yet, but the latest version is 1.2.5
[16:29] <peabody> I will leave you a feedback from the website, nice template ;)
[16:29] <masterkernel> thanks, did that top image myself, but the theme came from freecsstemplates
[16:33] <peabody> PyGTK
[16:33] <peabody> boo
[16:33] <peabody> can you make a QT version?
[16:58] <_ruben> strange .. when i google for "ubuntu tcp_frto" .. all i get is stuff related to network printing .. where as we ran into a problem where one of customers couldnt download any large files over http from our hardy based webserver, until we set it back to the (old?) default of 0
[17:13] <masterkernel> peabody: I have no idea how to use qt


[05:42] <GrueMaster> cehh: Interesting.  I'll try to look at it when I get home from LinuxFestNW.
[05:50] <scientes> GrueMaster, I WISH I WAS THERE
[05:51] <GrueMaster> Heh.  I'll save you a spot near the raffle table. Or would you rather hole up in the automated beer brewing lab?
[05:54] <scientes>  GrueMaster ewww, greyhound tickets for tomarrow are too expensive
[05:54] <scientes> i've been there before
[05:55] <GrueMaster> Where are you now?
[12:56] <marvin24_DT> janimo: http://developer.nvidia.com/linux-tegra (scroll down to EARLY-ACCESS RELEASES)
[12:56] <marvin24_DT> armhf binaries for nvidia-tegra
[12:56] <marvin24_DT> I tested the "ventana" package and it seems
[12:56] <marvin24_DT> to work
[13:54] <lilstevie> speaking of those drivers that marvin24 linked, is there any plans to package them
[16:34] <marvin24_DT> they don't support video decode yet as it seems
[16:34] <marvin24_DT> also unity-3d doen't load here
[16:34] <marvin24_DT> so before someone packs it, we need some testing
[18:06] <GrueMaster> marvin24_DT: I'm sitting at LinuxFestNW, but i have my ac100 and I have teh driver package.  How do I get my system to recognize the drivers?
[18:26] <gildean> GrueMaster: earlier on the ac100-channel marvin tipped to install nvidia-tegra with --force-all and then copying over the binarys
[18:30] <GrueMaster> So, get the nvidia-tegra armel package first?  Ok


[00:02] <jelmer> spiv: around?
[00:07] <spiv> jelmer: starting to be :)
[00:25] <jelmer> spiv: Have you ever seen anything like this: http://pastebin.com/t0te7wCQ ?
[00:35] <spiv> jelmer: yes, I think it's due to something (e.g. a thread) trying to mutter after the TestCase has torn down the logging/trace setup.
[00:35] <jelmer> spiv: ahh!
[00:36] <jelmer> spiv: Thanks, that also explains why the number of tests that failed in this way varied
[00:36] <spiv> You're welcome :)
[00:45] <Chaorain> I recently heard about Bazaar and have a question. I heard that it will allow me to make a personal branch of a project. For example, I want to start writing a major update for Blender but I don't have write access to the svn server, can I make a branch that only I can write to? I currently have a local linux server that manages a private svn server for me.
[00:46] <jelmer> Chaorain, yes
[00:46] <Chaorain> ok cool. I saw how to install it but how would I go about doing what I want?
[00:47] <Chaorain> here is what I found, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=916132
[00:47] <Chaorain> oh nvm just saw "bzr init
[00:48] <Chaorain> thanks for your help
[00:48] <jelmer> spiv: Any idea how to figure out what code is doing that muttering?
[00:50] <spiv> jelmer: hmm, not off the top of my head :/
[00:50] <spiv> jelmer: instrument mutter to emit a traceback to stderr on ValueError, perhaps?
[01:18] <Stavros> hello
[01:18] <Stavros> can anyone tell me why bzr does a light checkout when i cp -R my repo?
[01:21] <spiv> Stavros: I think I'm missing some context.    You might need to remove/disable bzr-colo first, I'm not sure.  Ideally bzr-colo's docs would cover this.
[01:26] <spiv> Although, if it's not causing you any problems, why change?
[01:26] <Stavros> because i can't commit to my other branch without this branch refusing to do anything unless i update :/
[01:27] <spiv> Ah ok.
[01:28] <Stavros> the command you gave me seems to have worked, let me check
[01:29] <Stavros> yep, that works, thanks!
[01:30] <spiv> Hooray, my new laptop can run the bzr test suite in under 10 minutes, and I haven't even tried running it in a tmpfs yet.
[02:32] <mlh> spiv: what's your new lappy? (am looking at  buying one too)
[02:32] <mlh> pm if you like
[02:50] <spiv> mlh: Thinkpad T410, so far so good.
[02:51] <spiv> Of course, I'm running maverick on it, so any issues could be blamed on that anyway ;)
[03:07]  * spiv -> food
[03:40] <mlh> ta
[09:04]  * spiv finishes up for the evening.    Is there any support for keyword-like expansion in bzr?  (ie, I want to include revision information in a file.)  While I could just have my build system query bzr, that doesn't work so well with tarballs produced with bzr export.
[11:04] <jelmer_> rjek, see the keywords plugin
[11:04]  * rjek was kinda hoping to avoid plugins.
[11:05] <rjek> And I can't find it on http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/BzrPlugins :)
[11:05] <Kinnison> jelmer_: Do you mean http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/plugins/en/keywords-plugin.html ?
[11:07] <rjek> My only concern with using plugin to do it is that my experience is that if I then try to build somewhere without that plugin, it'll either silently fail and I'll get strange builds, or I'll get an explosion with a python backtrace I don't understand.
[11:07] <jelmer_> Kinnison: yep
[11:07] <jelmer_> rjek: alternatively you can use "bzr version-info" to generate output, it's not really the same thing though
[11:07] <jelmer_> Kinnison: Yep
[11:08] <rjek> jelmer_: yeah, but as I said, that doesn't work for people building from a tarball created with bzr export.
[11:08] <rjek> (In that I'm assuming they don't have bzr if they want to use the tarball.)
[11:14] <rjek> Also, it looks like that plugin can only have the rules that describe what files to process globally, not in a checkout, which is a bit nasty.
[11:15] <jelmer_> right
[11:15] <jelmer_> It'll work as long as whoever runs 'bzr export' has the plugin installed though
[11:16] <jelmer_> I'm not aware of any alternatives unfortunately
[11:19] <Kinnison> Could a branch can't define a hook to run on export which could be used to update the file?
[11:19] <Kinnison> s/can't//
[11:25] <rjek> Can the rule files described by "bzr help rules" be placed in a branch, rather than global?
[11:30] <Kinnison> Unfortunately it looks like whoever wrote bzrlib/rules.py never finished it properly
[11:30] <Kinnison> :-(
[11:31] <poolie> it was ian
[11:31] <poolie> probably
[11:31] <Kinnison> I wonder who reviewed it and didn't spot that RULES_TREE_FILENAME is defined as ".bzrrules" but then never used anywhere :-(
[11:33] <rjek> Can I have that feature, please? :)
[11:33] <rjek> Only having rules globally and not version controlled is... nasty :)
[11:34] <Kinnison> Aye, it has rules stacking in it already, but no way to activate them
[11:34] <Kinnison> boggle
[11:39] <Kinnison> Also with all of rules.py's external interfaces starting with an underscore, I'm not impressed
[11:40]  * Kinnison doesn't have the time to make a patch right now though :-(
[12:28] <jenkins> hi, I am getting this error when doing bzr pull or commit bzr: ERROR: Could not acquire lock "/home/luke-jennings/Projects/lucid-e2/.bzr/checkout/dirstate": [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable. does that mean there is a problem with launchpad or my computer?
[12:33] <jenkins> I fixed it by getting a new branch
[12:39] <aj-dneg> quick q, how do i check out the previous revision?
[12:41] <aj-dneg> in-place of my workign copy
[12:54] <GaryvdM> aj-dneg: bzr update -r -2
[12:54] <aj-dneg> ah of course. i knew that. thanks :)
[14:25] <aj-dneg> is there any way to save bzr svn username and passwords other than in the URI for it svn://uname:pass@server/branch
[14:25] <aj-dneg> i know it's plain text in my branch config in any case, but it sucks that it shows it to the console!
[14:31] <mgz> does bzr-svn work with authentication.conf?
[14:31] <mgz> see no reason it shouldn't.
[14:32] <jelmer> it should
[14:33] <mgz> aj-dneg: in your bazaar configuration directory, open authentication.conf and add your details there
[14:34] <mgz> run `bzr version` if you're not sure where the dir is.
[14:35] <aj-dneg> mgz: i don't already have one of those files
[14:35] <aj-dneg> what format?
[14:35] <mgz> really? I thought it got created automatically.
[14:35] <mgz> run `bzr help authentication` for the full run down.
[14:36] <aj-dneg> i found this http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/developers/authentication-ring.html
[14:36] <aj-dneg> thanks
[14:36] <aj-dneg> mgz: perhaps bzr svn doesn't create it...
[14:36] <schlangen_> hi, I want to checkout a repo and have to use win vista. It fails cause win does not support symlinks. Is there any flag or workaround or so to get the checkout done?
[14:37] <mgz> use cygwin, or branch on nix, delete the symlinks, commit, and branch that on win.
[14:38] <mgz> also, bug the project to not version symlinks it's nearly always a bad idea anyway.
[14:39] <schlangen_> normally I use ubuntu but currently I've only internet with win
[14:39] <schlangen_> I just want to check out a project and get the code
[14:39] <mgz> yeah, I have often had a similar problem.
[14:40] <mgz> there have been a few discussions about a better solution, but there's no easy fix.
[14:40] <schlangen_> so there is no flag to replace symlinks on win with normal copies or so?
[14:41] <mgz> no. file a bug with the project, they're probably only using them for someting stupid anyway.
[14:41] <schlangen_> hm, ok
[14:41] <jelmer> aj-dneg: bzr itself doesn't create it either
[14:41] <mgz> which reminds me, I should have bugged someone here about lazr while the launchpad event was on.
[14:42] <aj-dneg> i just get a crash when i have svn defined in authentication.conf :(
[14:42] <mgz> they've got an unbranchable project due to symlinks, and another bug I filed a merge proposal to fix that's been ignored for months
[14:42] <mgz> might have been someone at the event they could have kicked in person.
[14:43] <mgz> aj-dneg: pastebin the traceback (I presume you mean python threw and exception rather than 'crash')
[14:43] <mgz> -d
[14:45] <aj-dneg> mgz: it created a crash dump for me
[14:45] <aj-dneg> mgz: i will deal with this later, supposed to be working :)
[14:45] <aj-dneg> thanks
[14:45] <mgz> apport thingy?
[14:46] <mgz> pastebin that if it's plaintext.
[15:23] <GaryvdM> Hi mgz
[15:32] <mgz> hey gary
[15:42] <GaryvdM> mgz: I can't find your pastebined patch for the py2exe optimize improvement
[15:43] <mgz> http://paste.ubuntu.com/460272/
[15:43] <mgz> third in my browser's history :)
[15:43] <mgz> it's only a guess, haven't tested.
[15:43] <GaryvdM> mgz: Ok - let me spin a build of that...
[15:48] <mgz> your 2.2b4 looks good, fixed all the stuff we worked on, though found some new issues that need handling before release
[17:20] <GaryvdM> http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9809.3/0957.html
[17:21] <GaryvdM> A description of bitkeeper from 1998 - I did not realise that it was so old...
[17:34] <mgz> we're all getting old gary ;_;
[19:11] <jaxdroid> hi anyone here have experience in using the bzr plugin for eclipse?
[19:13] <maxb> Some. Which plugin, though? There are two.
[19:13] <jaxdroid> http://verterok.com.ar/bzr-eclipse/update-site/
[19:14] <maxb> I tried that for a bit, but decided that it was sadly too immature and buggy to be of practical use
[19:14] <jaxdroid> bizzare
[19:14] <dash> jaxdroid: i use it
[19:14] <jaxdroid> happen to have name to other plugin
[19:14] <dash> maxb: which is the other one?
[19:15] <maxb> qbzr-eclipse - which is a bit of an odd one, because it's not an Eclipse team provider
[19:15] <dash> aaah.
[19:15] <dash> not a team player
[19:16] <jaxdroid> thx
[19:17] <maxb> It's a rather different way of working - but it seems overall to have fewer rough edges than bzr-eclipse
[19:17] <maxb> Unfortunately the sad truth is that bzr doesn't have anywhere near as good eclipse support as mercurial
[19:39] <rioch> when I do bzr status, one of the items has a * by it. what does that mean?
[19:40] <rjek> "bzr help status" suggests the file has the executable bit set.
[19:41] <rioch> ahhh thanks
[19:43] <GaryvdM> mgz: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4494367/bzr-2.2b4-optimize-setup.exe
[19:46] <GaryvdM> mgz: 6 kb smaller :-)
[19:46] <mgz> compressed?
[19:46] <GaryvdM> mgz: yes
[19:47] <GaryvdM> busy testing if it works with plugins installed from source with old style help strings.
[19:49] <mgz> appears to have worked
[19:50] <GaryvdM> mgz: Do you how can you get a cold cache on windows with out restarting?
[19:50] <mgz> can't unfortunately, and with new version of windows can't even always get it *with* restarting :)
[19:51] <mgz> library.zip is ~2.5MB smaller as planned, and the exe is creating non-docstring-stripped files
[19:52] <mgz> ^if you have a externally connected spinning rust hdd you could try that for a coolish start
[20:01] <GaryvdM> mgz: Maybe using cacheset, reduce the max cache size, and then put it back...
[20:01] <GaryvdM> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897561.aspx
[20:01] <mgz> just murdering your memory does sort of work, but takes longer than simply restarting
[20:01] <mgz> get deep into paging death and takes ages to recover from
[20:02] <mgz> ah, that's not the util I thought it was going to be, but might suffer from similar issues
[20:03] <GaryvdM> mgz can see if you run an qbzr command from that install. I'm getting an error.
[20:04] <mgz> wfm.
[20:04] <GaryvdM> http://pastebin.org/413603
[20:04] <GaryvdM> mgz: qlog?
[20:05] <mgz> yup.
[20:05] <GaryvdM> Works?
[20:05] <mgz> yup.
[20:05] <mgz> can you do qversion? not being able to import Qt probably means you're totally hosed.
[20:06] <GaryvdM> mgz: I can do qversion
[20:06] <GaryvdM> can't do qlog, qbrowse, and explorer.
[20:09] <mgz> you should get qversion to print where it's getting Qt from/
[20:10] <GaryvdM> Yes
[20:11] <GaryvdM> Ah - I happens with a old version of qbzr (0.18dev) and a new installer with less qt dll's.
[20:12] <GaryvdM> * It
[20:13] <mars> Hi everyone, I have a testing question for the room
[20:14] <GaryvdM> Hi mars
[20:14] <mars> Hi GaryvdM
[20:15] <mars> so, the question: I presume that bzr tests command-line script output, which means the suite has to work with STDOUT somehow
[20:15] <mars> If so, how do you do it?
[20:16] <GaryvdM> mars: Most of the tests test the api. But there are some blackbox test.
[20:16] <mgz> assigning to sys.stdout
[20:17] <mgz> or using a subprocess.
[20:17] <lifeless> mars: self.run_bzr and self.run_bzr_subprocess
[20:17] <mars> interesting
[20:17] <lifeless> mars: the former uses apply_redirected to run the CLI layer with string io objects
[20:18] <lifeless> the latter reinvokes bzr to actually do an end to end test, which is only rarely (like, 3-4 times) needed in a full test run.
[20:18] <lifeless> mars: if you're writing a CLI layer, I'd suggest looking at the testrepository code, its a reimplementation of what bzr has, with the lessons learnt applied and some new ideas thrown in.
[20:18] <lifeless> mars: better yet, don't write a CLI layer, use bzr's.
[20:19] <lifeless> mars: lp-tools and commandant both have examples of reusing bzr's core handling to do stuff, and then you can use bzr's test cases to do self.run_... :)
[20:21] <mars> lifeless, interesting idea.  I'll look into it.  It would be nice to find a common ground between the bzr "command language" way and the *nix "small sharp tools" way.  I'm sure there is something.
[20:22] <mars> thanks everyone
[20:22] <GaryvdM> mars:
[20:22]  * mars pauses
[20:23] <GaryvdM> mars; for cli opts and args parseing, there is a python libaray
[20:23] <GaryvdM> looking for it...
[20:23] <mars> GaryvdM, yep, I am familiar with it
[20:23] <mgz> there are issues with both those methods in the bzr suite, but they're pretty esoteric
[20:23] <mgz> run_bzr screws up debugging tests with pdb
[20:23] <GaryvdM> mars: oh ok.
[20:24] <mars> mgz, heh, that's good to know.  I rely heavily on the 'drop to PDB' features of various testrunners
[20:24] <mgz> and run_bzr_subprocess doesn't handle being invoked from non-standard scripts
[20:24] <mars> mgz, non-standard?
[20:25] <lifeless> mars: bzr is small sharp tools :)
[20:25] <lifeless> mars: testrepository has more of a flavour of that though, if you want that.
[20:25] <mgz> as in, it's got special casing for a py2exe'd bzr.exe but anything else would break
[20:25] <lifeless> mars: dropping to pdb is great, but you never need to do that in a blackbox test - if you do you're not isolating your tests anywhere near enough.
[20:26] <lifeless> mars: layers man, layers.
[20:26] <lifeless> mars: it annoyed me in bzr about 2 times a year; I know how to fix it, just 'meh, when it annoys me twice in a row'
[20:26] <mars> lifeless, yes, but learning where the layers are best drawn is the challenge for me - "when do I test the boundaries?  How?  How much?"
[20:27] <mars> heh
[20:27] <lifeless> mars: if you're testing CLI *rendering* or *arg marshalling*, blackbox is the way.
[20:27] <lifeless> anything else, should be domain objects and narrower non-CLI-blackbox tests.
[20:28] <lifeless> IME, etc etc
[20:28] <mars> lifeless, makes sense - "test double MockFormatStdOutput.printBranch() should be called X times"
[20:29] <mars> and then black-box test printBranch() or something-or-other
[20:30] <lifeless> by blackbox I mean bzr's apply_redirected/run_bzr test methods, which actually exercise the full stack
[20:30] <mars> right
[20:30] <lifeless> but its quick, so we're not too worried about it - and we only have a few such tests (under 1K I think)
[20:30] <GaryvdM> mgz: I'm going to submit that patch as a mp. I think we need to make moving the py2exe stuff out of setup.py a priority.
[20:30] <mgz> a mp to bzr?
[20:30] <mgz> rather than bzr-windows-installers?
[20:31] <GaryvdM> mgz: right now to bzr
[20:31] <mars> lifeless, I guess I'll start looking at testrepository.  It has the infrastructure, but not so much code that it is difficult to find a starting point
[20:32] <GaryvdM> thats why moving the py2exe is important.
[20:33] <lifeless> mars: commandant might be better as its designed to be a intermediate library
[20:47] <mgz> okay, this is officially driving me nuts
[20:48] <mgz> in what circumstances is inserting the right dir as the first entry on sys.path not sufficient to get a module imported from there rather than elsewhere on the path on nix...
[20:49] <mgz> ...when the module is already somehow imported... but... how ;_;
[20:50] <mgz> modules shouldn't survive fork+exec right?
[21:04] <mgz> okay, I'm officially just an idiot.
[21:10] <lifeless> sure
[21:10] <lifeless> :P
[21:11] <lifeless> (why?)
[21:14] <mgz> debugging code I'd added earlier was importing the module
[21:16] <mgz> the code's still borked, but not for the reason I just spent all that time chasing
[21:38] <mgz> oh man, and that's the real killer. the fix I already put up a merge proposal *was* correct, I just tyoped it when putting it on the other machine...
[21:39] <mgz> if it didn't take so long to branch from here to there I'd have not spent the last hour trying to discover out why it didn't work...
[22:27] <lifeless> and ciao
[23:38] <micahg> can we have per branch whoami's?
[23:39] <jelmer> micahg, yes
[23:39] <jelmer> set email in .bzr/branch/branch.conf
[23:39] <jelmer> or in the relevant section in ~/.bazaar/locations.conf
[23:39] <Ken69267> is there a way to specify what ssh key bzr uses for launchpad? I do not use the default named key
[23:39] <micahg> jelmer: thanks
[23:44] <Ken69267> or if I must map it with .ssh/config what is the true url to launchpad that lp: hides