[00:27] <beuno> Rinchen, https://help.launchpad.net/FAQ
[00:27] <beuno> *ugly*
[00:27] <beuno> now, I'm off to bed  :)
[00:30] <LarstiQ> beuno: sleep well :)
[00:42] <Rinchen> beuno, thanks. Fixed as best I could
[00:50] <bbyever> hi
[00:51] <bbyever> is there a problem with staging.lp.net?
[00:53] <bbyever> also, how can i register a project under a team?
[00:58] <Rinchen> bbyever, looking now
[00:58] <bbyever> thanks, Rinchen
[00:58] <Rinchen> has been offline for a bit. thought it might have been the normal update but it's taking a bit longer than it should be
[00:59] <Rinchen> bbyever, you can register a project and then change the owner to a team
[00:59] <bbyever> ok
[00:59] <bbyever> ah ok
[00:59] <bbyever> thanks
[01:02] <Rinchen> bbyever, not quite sure what's going on there.  It's not a production machine (hence staging) so I can't wake up a sysadmin to look at it.
[01:02] <Rinchen> bbyever, the box is alive but it's possible the application server on it has died for some reason.  Will be interesting to see why
[01:04] <Rinchen> bbyever, well, one of our sysadmins who doesn't sleep just kicked it and it's back
[01:04] <bbyever> great, thanks!
[01:05] <bbyever> i have another question. What is the best license that LP offers at project registration for things that are not software, like documentation and such?
[01:05] <Rinchen> bbyever, I'm not a lawyer...but a lot of folks use CC or GFDL
[01:06] <bbyever> but CC doesnt appear at the project registration page...
[01:08] <bbyever> Rinchen, unless its under some other name... Im not very experienced with this...
[01:08]  * LarstiQ would try to stay away from the GFDL.
[01:08] <LarstiQ> bbyever: if you don't care at all, I'd probably pick the GPL.
[01:09] <LarstiQ> or well, if you don't care what people do with it, BSD or PD.
[01:09] <Rinchen> bbyever, then the best thing to do is email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>mention you talked to me and I recommended email the feedback email.  We'll have someone in that area get back to you with guidance.
[01:09] <LarstiQ> or listen to Rinchen
[01:09] <Rinchen> hehe. You can modify your license too, so you're not fixed
[01:09] <bbyever> Rinchen: thanks i'll do that.
[01:10] <bbyever> LarstiQ: I'll pick the GPL for now, i guess you can change it afterwards , right?
[01:10] <Rinchen> LarstiQ had another good suggestion with BSD. I have seen that a bit as well.
[01:10] <LarstiQ> bbyever: Rinchen said so, I trust him :)
[01:10] <Rinchen> best thing bbyever is to review the available choices and then look at the licenses themselves.
[01:11] <LarstiQ> true.
[01:12] <bbyever> ok
[01:12] <Rinchen> yeah +edit allows you to change it.  If for some reason you cannot, then you ask a question (see the channel topic) and a LP admin can do it for you
[01:12] <bbyever> ok, thanks for your time!
[01:12] <Rinchen> you bet
[01:12] <Rinchen> off to a late dinner
[01:12] <Rinchen> have a good evening
[01:14] <bbyever> same
[01:14] <bbyever> bye!
[01:19] <idnar> how do I rename a project on Launchpad?
[01:20] <LarstiQ> idnar: +edit?
[01:20] <idnar> uhm
[01:21] <idnar> my project is http://launchpad.net/$NAME
[01:21] <idnar> $NAME is what I want to change, which I can't seem to do via that interface
[01:22] <LarstiQ> ah hmm
[01:23] <idnar> I thought about deleting it and creating a new one (I only created it about a week ago), but I can't see a way to delete it either
[01:24] <LarstiQ> if you'd been here 10 minutes earlier Rinchen would still have been able to answer.
[01:25] <LarstiQ> idnar: as is, I don't really know, other than asking an admin to do it.
[01:25] <idnar> okay
[01:25] <idnar> should I just hang around and wait for an admin to show up?
[01:25] <persia> Or you could post a question at answers.launchpad.net and one of them will see it later.
[01:26] <LarstiQ> idnar: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[01:28] <idnar> okay, did that
[01:28] <idnar> thanks
[01:45] <Rafik> Hello
[01:45] <Rafik> any Launchpad admin please ? ^^
[01:46] <LarstiQ> Rafik: I don't know if any are awake, but what is your problem?
[01:46] <Rafik> hi LarstiQ
[01:47] <Rafik> I wanted to know if it's possible to get an old inactive nickname
[01:47] <LarstiQ> Rafik: owned by someone else?
[01:47] <Rafik> .... does not use Launchpad. This page was created on 2005-06-15.
[01:47] <LarstiQ> Rafik: if you already own it, you should be able to merge it with your current one yourself
[01:47] <LarstiQ> ah.
[01:48] <Rafik> Im not the owner
[01:48] <LarstiQ> does indeed seem like an admin request.
[01:48] <Rafik> yes :)
[01:49] <Rafik> I sent an email a week ago with no answer yet
[01:49] <Rafik> Since it's my real name, my IRC nickname... I really want it :)
[01:51] <Drk_Guy> Hi guys!
[01:51] <LarstiQ> Rafik: have you considered asking a question via Launchpad's Answers section? https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[01:51] <Drk_Guy> My PPA register no packages, and it is http 404
[01:51] <Rafik> LarstiQ, No. I just sent an email.
[01:52] <Rafik> You advise me to add a question ?
[01:52] <Rafik> hello Drk_Guy
[01:52] <Drk_Guy> Hi Rafik
[01:52] <LarstiQ> Rafik: I think that is the proces, yes. (A quick check turns up someone else asking for the same thing (different name though :))
[01:53] <Rafik> :)
[01:53] <LarstiQ> Drk_Guy: could you give a little more context?
[01:53] <Rafik> LarstiQ, Thank you.
[01:53] <Drk_Guy> LarstiQ, I uploaded a src package like 4 hours back, and it is not up still
[01:54] <Drk_Guy> I've signed CoC, accepted policy, everything
[01:54] <Drk_Guy> But it won't work
[01:54] <Drk_Guy> This is supposed to be my PPA: http://ppa.launchpad.net/drk-red/ubuntu
[01:55] <Drk_Guy> LarstiQ, Any ideas?
[01:56] <Drk_Guy> Rafik,
[01:56] <RAOF> Drk_Guy: That URL is broken.
[01:56] <RAOF> Drk_Guy: You actually meant https://edge.launchpad.net/~drk-red/+archive
[01:57] <Drk_Guy> RAOF, That's what Launchpad gave me
[01:57] <RAOF> Oh, right.  Yes.  That'd be the url for the repository, yes.
[01:57] <RAOF> But you haven't uploaded anything yet :)
[01:57] <Rafik> Drk_Guy, I'm sorry. I can't help with your issue.
[01:58] <LarstiQ> Drk_Guy: no mail with a build failure or anything?
[01:58] <Drk_Guy> RAOF, I've uploaded a special wine package like 4 hours ago
[01:58] <RAOF> Not to that PPA you didn't.
[01:58] <RAOF> Did you get the "accepted" mail back?
[01:59] <LarstiQ> Drk_Guy: how did you upload it?
[01:59] <Drk_Guy> LarstiQ, dput
[01:59] <Drk_Guy> LarstiQ, My changes were rejected
[01:59] <Drk_Guy> Why?
[01:59] <Drk_Guy> It's my PPa, i can upload what i want
[01:59] <RAOF> That's true.  But you need to format them the correct way :)
[01:59] <LarstiQ> Drk_Guy: well, within limits of course. You can't upload the Lord of the Rings :)
[02:00] <RAOF> You'd want to pastebin the reject email if you want more help :)
[02:00] <Drk_Guy> LarstiQ, I'm uploading a special verson of wine, with 3DMark
[02:00] <LarstiQ> Drk_Guy: I don't have PPA experience, but I have some dput experience. One issue that can trip you up is if you don't specify which host to put to, it picks the default one.
[02:01] <Drk_Guy> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26558/
[02:01] <Drk_Guy> LarstiQ, I followed the PPA guide
[02:01] <LarstiQ> Could not find person 'drk-red'
[02:01] <LarstiQ> I don't know why that is raised, but that seems the critical problem.
[02:02] <LarstiQ> if you can figure that out, you're a step closer to fixing the problem.
[02:02] <RAOF> You'd want to pastebin your dput.cf :)
[02:02] <LarstiQ> ok, I'm off to catch a ride to the airport.
[02:02] <RAOF> Have aviatronic fun!
[02:02] <LarstiQ> heh, thanks :)
[02:03] <Drk_Guy> RAOF, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26559/
[02:03] <Drk_Guy> LarstiQ, Good luck
[02:04] <RAOF> Drk_Guy: That looks OK.  Try uploading the source package again?  Maybe it was a transient error.
[02:04] <Drk_Guy> Ok
[02:05] <Drk_Guy> RAOF, Already uploaded
[02:06] <RAOF> You need to pass -f to dput, because it normally won't upload twice.
[02:07] <Drk_Guy> RAOF, Nopey
[02:07] <Drk_Guy> -f won't work
[02:08] <RAOF> A more useful response would be to paste(bin, if necessary) the output of the failed attempt.  dput -f my-ppa foo.changes most assuredly will work :)
[02:08] <Drk_Guy> Ahh!
[02:09] <Drk_Guy> the -f was on a different spot
[02:09] <Drk_Guy> ;)
[02:56] <LaserJock> can anybody elighten me as to what purpose the "Upstream Version" column in +source pages really is?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i think it's got something to do with being useful where upstream uses launchpad as well
[02:58] <Hobbsee> as in, to link the corresponding series
[02:59] <Hobbsee> but i've found next to no use for it in practice, probably because the upstreams of stuff i touch aren't on there
[02:59] <persia> Or where someone bothered to define it: the "upstream series" can also link to other trackers.
[02:59] <persia> The main issue is that it requires 15,000 definitions every cycle, which nobody every does.
[03:00] <LaserJock> well
[03:00] <LaserJock> my problem is that I'll set the upstream link one time in one release
[03:00] <LaserJock> but since that all has to be updated by hand
[03:00] <LaserJock> old versions are still linked to "trunk"
[03:01] <LaserJock> and since vcsimports only support trunk I'm not sure how we're supposed to use it
[03:02] <LaserJock> so now I'm removing all the links I did back in gutsy or so
[03:03] <LaserJock> and why are the names/email addresses of people in some of the changelog entries on the +source page and some aren't
[03:05] <LaserJock> it's *very* frustrating to be looking at changes and not know *who* did them
[03:09] <jml> what's an example page?
[03:10] <jml> I can't quite follow this conversation without an example
[03:11] <persia> jml: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/(anything)
[03:11] <LaserJock> jml: I'm looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris
[03:12] <LaserJock> and 6 of the entries don't have any person attached to them
[03:12] <jml> ok.
[03:13] <LaserJock> and the publishing history doesn't have *anything* either
[03:13] <persia> Note that we're also missing all the changelog entries between 8.3.2-1ubuntu2 and 8.4.2-1ubuntu1 (specifically at least 8.4.2-1)
[03:13] <jml> so there's a changelog issue, plus the "upstream version" thing
[03:13] <jml> but they aren't necessarily directly related, right?
[03:13] <LaserJock> yeah, the upstream version thing I'm just giving up on
[03:13] <persia> jml: Yes, two separate things, on the same page.  No direct relation.
[03:13] <LaserJock> no, not at all related, I just saw it on the same page
[03:14] <jml> LaserJock: why is only being able to import trunk an issue here?
[03:14] <persia> jml: If you look at e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdebi
[03:14] <LaserJock> jml: because the packages don't *come* from trunk
[03:14] <LaserJock> jml: so it makes linking pointless
[03:15] <persia> There exist version of gdebi that would be suitable for adjustment for -updates in prior releases.  There's no means to either track those well or import them.
[03:15] <persia> s/version/versions/
[03:15] <persia> jml: To put it another way, it would be nice if the upstream version link could actually link to the correct upstream version for each release.
[03:16] <persia> As it stands now, it might make sense to link a project to a source package, but on a per-release basis it's useless information, and requires 15,000 manual actions every six months.
[03:17] <jml> persia: when you say 15,000, you are referring to the number of packages, right?
[03:18] <persia> (Or not even useless information, but rather incorrect information)
[03:18] <persia> jml: Yep.
[03:18] <jml> good.
[03:19] <LaserJock> persia: I think it's worse than that as it stands now
[03:19] <persia> LaserJock: worse than incorrect information that requires massive manual action?  How?
[03:19] <LaserJock> because for vcsimports (which is the majority right now), you can only link to trunk
[03:19] <LaserJock> so you have no hope of getting correct information for even at one time
[03:19] <persia> Ah, which is exceedingly unlikely to have close relation to the source used in the source package.  I see what you mean.
[03:21] <persia> To look at a recent example that hit the archives: the libdrm 2.3.1 update (required for Xorg1.5) specifically discludes some contentious patches being tested in trunk, as these were determined to be insufficiently stable and tested for an upstream release.
[03:23] <jml> *nod*
[03:24] <persia> Now, if imports were more flexible and were able to pull based on release tags for the upstream version identified in the version code, it might be rather useful.
[03:25] <persia> Where versions are messy (e.g. 0.1+dfsg-3), the watch file ought contain a dversionmangle option to help determine the correct upstream version.
[03:25] <persia> That depends on all upstreams properly tagging releases, but that's likely the sort of best practice we'd like to encourage anyway.
[03:25] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:26] <persia> As an additional benefit, such a system is largely automated, so distro developers don't have to manually link things: they just complain to upstream that the branches aren't tagged properly, and it all automagically works.
[03:27] <jml> persia: upstream might have different ideas about what "properly" means.
[03:27] <jml> persia: but I agree that such a feature would be useful.
[03:27] <persia> jml: Oh, certainly.  I still think there's likely the possibility of there being a best practice for each common VCS.
[03:28] <jml> for sure.
[03:28] <persia> Much as most upstreams now release a $(sourcepackage)-$(version).tar.gz, rather than the mishmash we used to get, defining some standards and prosletysing can be fairly powerful.
[03:29] <persia> Some upstreams will not comply, but if we could automate even 60% of it, and have it be correct and useful, it would be a huge step towards any sort of VCS adoption for distro packagers:  without that VCS distro packaging is only interesting where 1) someone works with the same source regularly, or 2) a close team is making rapid changes to a single source package.
[03:31]  * jml jots down a few notes
[03:31] <persia> And without VCS distro packaging, there's really no point to linking to upstream VCS, as one generally wants to grab the distro source anyway.
[03:32]  * persia wonders why "distro" ends in 'o' when it's short for distribution
[03:33] <jml> persia: I'd like to credit it to an Australian influence
[03:33] <jml> persia: but I'd just be making stuff up. :)
[03:33] <RAOF> Heh.
[03:34] <persia> Awww..  I thought there was some historical standard of -oifying things in Australian slang :(
[03:35] <RAOF> Oh, there is.
[03:35] <RAOF> We're all about the oing of words.
[03:35] <jml> persia: well there is.
[03:35] <jml> persia: but I couldn't chart it into the world of Linux distributions
[03:35] <persia> RAOF: So jml is creating truth from the same substance that binds Fenris?
[03:36] <persia> s/Fenris/Fenrir/
[03:36] <LaserJock> ok, so on the changelog thing ... Launchpad currently only has record of 32 out of 51 entries since the package was first introduced into Ubuntu
[03:36] <jml> persia: e.g. most Australians quickly find my given name, Jonathan, too cumbersome, and shorten it by default to Jono.
[03:36] <LaserJock> for gcompris that is
[03:37] <jml> LaserJock: yeah, that changelog thing is best filed as a bug.
[03:37] <LaserJock> and it only has 32 out of the whole 114 entries that are present in the current Intrepid package
[03:38] <persia> jml: One bug or two?  There's the missing entries (likely from overliteral parsing of .changes files rather than checking the source changelog), and the lack of attribution for some changes.
[03:38] <LaserJock> yeah, I can at least understand the first one
[03:38] <LaserJock> because it's just grabbing the changelog entries for the versions *in* Ubuntu
[03:39] <LaserJock> but the lack of attribution is maddening
[03:39] <persia> LaserJock: I suspect both have the same cause: there are ways to create a .changes file without the signature line.
[03:39] <LaserJock> there isn't any consistency to it that I can find
[03:39] <jml> persia: two.
[03:39] <LaserJock> persia: hmm, well I wouldn't have though that I'd been changing how I've done .changes
[03:40] <LaserJock> *thought
[03:40] <persia> LaserJock: Do you not sometimes pass -v and sometimes not?
[03:40] <LaserJock> or wait
[03:40] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:40] <LaserJock> the ones that are missing are new upstream releases
[03:41] <LaserJock> so I'd have put -v in
[03:41] <persia> Also, I suspect some people pass -k even when they don't need to because they don't want to bother trying to get their changelog entry and key aligned, which might impact it.
[03:41] <LaserJock> I wouldn't have done that one I don't think
[03:41] <LaserJock> I suspect it'd be -v
[03:41]  * persia suspects there are other ways to make .changes suspect, but doesn't want to research it now
[03:42] <LaserJock> well, the plain fact of the matter is that it's rather stupid to not use the changelog for that kind of thing
[03:42] <LaserJock> the whole reason I write changelog entries is for people to read them!!
[03:43] <persia> Well, maybe just pragmatic: one has the .changes file in the upload, but has to parse the source package to get the changelog.
[03:43] <LaserJock> yes, but that's being done anyway for changelogs.ubuntu.com
[03:43] <persia> Well, yes, but by a different subsystem.
[03:43] <LaserJock> it's just trying to cut corners IMO and getting it wrong even
[03:47] <LaserJock> hmmpf, another bug to look at
[03:47] <LaserJock> maybe I'll get more done *not* being LP Liaison ;-)
[03:47] <Hobbsee> i didn't think you were anymore?
[03:48] <LaserJock> that's what I'm saying
[03:48] <LaserJock> I've just found at least 3 bugs to file :-)
[03:48] <jml> LaserJock: I have to confess, I didn't realise there was such a thing until I heard you were leaving :)
[03:48] <Hobbsee> oh, right, maybe you'll get more done on *launchpad* when not being the liason
[03:48] <LaserJock> jml: yes yes, I certainly didn't do as thorough of a job as I probably should have
[03:49] <jml> LaserJock: oh, that hadn't occurred to me :)
[03:49] <LaserJock> jml: however, since I was also an LP bug contact I saw a lot of what you guys were doing
[03:49] <jml> LaserJock: it's just that most of the time I've got my head down in a pile of codehosting stuff :)
[03:49] <LaserJock> and frankly, not a ton of the bugs I did file got fixed
[03:50] <LaserJock> in fact, I'm not sure that *any* LP bug I've filed has every gotten fixed
[03:51] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: oh, i'm sure maybe one did.  somewhere.  sometime.
[03:51] <Hobbsee> either htat, or you don't file enough launchpad bugs.
[03:51] <Hobbsee> heck, even wgrant and i have managed to get a few bugs marked "critical" (many months after filing, but that's another gripe) each
[03:52] <LaserJock> well, usually mine never make "critical", I just +1 you and wgrant's ;-)
[03:52] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:52] <LaserJock> and of course in trying to see if any of my bugs have been fixed I've run into another one
[03:52] <Hobbsee> i try not to file them now though, tbh.
[03:52] <Hobbsee> for the reason you cited.
[03:53] <LaserJock> can you really *not* do an advanced search on reporter?
[03:53] <emma> :)
[03:53] <jml> LaserJock: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=laserjock&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&search=Search
[03:53] <Hobbsee> or a search on a person at all?
[03:53] <LaserJock> ah, I figured it out, you have to go to your personal bug page first and then do it
[03:53] <jml> no you don't
[03:53] <persia> LaserJock: Visit that person's page, and click on their reported bugs.
[03:54] <LaserJock> jml: that's not available from the advanced search is it?
[03:54] <jml> LaserJock: that's where I found it.
[03:54] <LaserJock> I don't know I'm getting myself confused
[03:54] <LaserJock> :-)
[03:54] <jml> LaserJock: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-project, "Advanced search"
[03:55] <jml> LaserJock: "Reporter" is in the right column of "People"
[03:55] <Hobbsee> jml: the idea would be to have the reported bugs from any project, no
[03:55] <Hobbsee> ?
[03:55] <jml> Hobbsee: the initial question was about Launchpad bugs, I thought
[03:56] <LaserJock> ok, I'm totally lying though
[03:56] <LaserJock> 4 out of 16 LP bugs I've files have been fixed
[03:56] <LaserJock> *filed
[03:56] <Hobbsee> jml: i think it was, but i took [12:53] <LaserJock> can you really *not* do an advanced search on reporter? to be a separate thing :)
[03:56] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: that's doing pretty well.
[03:56] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: that's probably better than my and wgrant's ratio.
[03:56] <Hobbsee> in fact, i'm sure ti is.
[03:56] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: Fix-it-Friday's
[03:56] <jml> Hobbsee: oh.
[03:56] <LaserJock> I pick easy ones
[03:57] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh.  some of my bugs that are easy, like adding a checkbox, still are waiting from gutsy development.
[03:57] <LaserJock> jml: it apears you can't do an advanced search on a report *from* the reporter's page
[03:57] <Hobbsee> they'll hit their 1 year aniversary in a few months
[03:57] <jml> LaserJock: oh, right.
[03:57] <jml> LaserJock: that sucks.
[03:57] <LaserJock> jml: it was smart enough to know that I was already there
[03:57] <jml> oh, that doesn't suck then :)
[03:58] <Hobbsee> but they're on a mostly-unused section, so it's understandable
[03:58] <jml> fwiw, 56 / 139 for me
[03:58] <Hobbsee> jml: well done!
[03:59] <LaserJock> my oldest one is "High" and was filed 2007-03-25
[03:59] <LaserJock> oldest open one
[04:00] <LaserJock> though I guess maybe the Bug Janitor needs to get it 'cause it's Incomplete
[04:01]  * Hobbsee wonders if the stats are any better on launchpad questions now
[04:02] <Hobbsee> speaking of that rotten janitor.
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hmm.  i'm sure i reported more than that.
[04:07] <Hobbsee> 14 not fixed, 1 invalid, 8 fixed.  23 total.
[04:08] <Hobbsee> 1 high, 2 critical
[04:09] <Hobbsee> ah, + 2 dupes
[04:10] <LaserJock> well, I found changelog entries at /ubuntu/<release>/+source/<pkg>/+changelog
[04:10] <LaserJock> but there's no /ubuntu/+source/<pkg>/+changelog which is sort of weird
[04:11] <jml> Hobbsee: I would have thought you'd reported more than that.
[04:11] <persia> LaserJock: It's also not reliable, as changelogs aren't necessarily in series between releases (and actually may not be in series within a release, but that's not usually as important)
[04:12] <persia> LaserJock: Unless you'd expect it to go to the current source package?
[04:12] <Hobbsee> jml: yeah...
[04:13] <LaserJock> persia: hmm, and apparently during syncs the sync requester get's the attribution for the Debian changelog entry :-)
[04:14] <persia> LaserJock: Yep.  This is good for Ubuntu tracking purposes, but clearly wrong for changelog purposes.
[04:15] <persia> We could do better to differentiate "Changed-By", "Uploaded-By", and "Changelog-By", but it's confusing.
[04:15] <persia> If we rely entirely on the changelog, we lose track of who requested the sync.
[04:15] <LaserJock> agreed
[04:16] <LaserJock> but I think it could be fairly reasonably worked out
[04:16] <persia> As it is, there's still some confusion as to whether it is supposed to be the requestor or the approver, and different archive-admins do it differently.
[04:16] <LaserJock> Changelog-By should get the credit for the upload
[04:16] <persia> (note that in many cases, the requestor and approver are the same party)
[04:17] <persia> LaserJock: For syncs?  Should Changed-By: be mangled?  If it is mangled, whose name goes there?  Anyway, I think it needs more general thought before launchpad can be expected to handle it sanely.
[04:17] <LaserJock> if Changelog-By != Changed-By or Uploaded-By then other fields should be filled in (Synced By: ? and Sponsored By:)
[04:18] <LaserJock> the problem is that a simply attributing an entire package version to 1 person doesn't suffice
[04:19] <LaserJock> that Changelog-By might not be the same as Change-By which might not be the same as Uploaded-By needs to be taken into account
[04:20] <persia> Well, if you want to get complicated, what about team-maintained packages where Changes-By is different than Changelog-By is different than Changed-By, is different than Uploaded-By?
[04:21] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure I follow that case
[04:21] <LaserJock> you mean if there are multiple people in the changelog entry?
[04:22] <persia> Yes.
[04:22] <LaserJock> well, that is a point
[04:22] <persia> e.g.: someone makes changes, a DD sponsors it, the changer makes a sync requests, a MOTU sponsors it, the archive admin pushes it, what does LP display?
[04:23] <LaserJock> hmm
[04:25] <persia> The point being that it's hard, so I'm very much unsure of what is correct behaviour.  That said, it's a bug if no name is displayed, and a bug if entries are missing.
[04:27] <LaserJock> I think Changelog-By = Debian changelog , Changed-By = sync requester, Uploaded-By = signer
[04:28] <persia> s/signer/approver?
[04:29] <persia> How about the multiple people who changed the package, none of whom may be the changelog author?
[04:34] <LaserJock> I personally don't think we need a sync approver field
[04:34] <LaserJock> in the case of a sync I think Uploaded-By could be blank, or perhaps be Archive Admin to show it was synced by them perhaps
[04:35] <LaserJock> well, I think we can get very complicated with it
[04:35] <LaserJock> tracking Maintainer:, Uploaders:, etc. and getting out every person who touched the package at all
[04:37] <LaserJock> but the essentials as I see it are attributing upstream, current "changer", and uploader
[05:49] <jml> wow. tabs eh?
[06:30] <gnomefreak> Can anyone give me a clue on what OOPS-922CEMAIL1 was caused by?
[06:31] <mwhudson> gnomefreak: Signature couldn't be verified: (7, 8, 'Bad signature')
[06:32] <gnomefreak> mwhudson: there isnt anything wrong with my key it works most of time and always has worked until sometime on the pre-release for 2.0 (i think thats next version
[06:33] <gnomefreak> its been only the last week or so that im getting failures
[06:35] <gnomefreak> that bug listed one of my posts from email but wouldnt do this bug
[06:35] <mwhudson> gnomefreak: the signature is definitely bad
[06:35] <mwhudson> gnomefreak: i don't really know enough about gpg to say why
[06:35] <gnomefreak> mwhudson: than i shouldnt beable to sign any malone mail
[06:35] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/246694
[06:36] <gnomefreak> that has one from me the other one would be last one but you dont see it
[06:36] <mwhudson> gnomefreak: the mail looks a bit oddly wrapped, maybe tbird is screwing you over?
[06:36] <gnomefreak> what do you mean as oddly wrapped i knwo what it means but what do you say that makes you think that?
[06:37] <mwhudson> uh
[06:37] <mwhudson> gnomefreak: that didn't make a lot of sense
[06:37] <mwhudson> in the oops report, i have a link to your original mail
[06:37] <mwhudson> if i download it, gpg refuses to verify it
[06:37] <gnomefreak> mwhudson: you said its oddly wrapped what makes you think its oddly wrapped
[06:37] <mwhudson> and if i look at it, it looks like this:
[06:38] <mwhudson> sharshabeeeel wrote:
[06:38] <mwhudson> > Thank you John but the flashplugin-nonfree has been previously removed
[06:38] <mwhudson> using Synaptic Package Manager.
[06:39] <gnomefreak> being on different lines shoudlnt matter its still able to be read and emailed and i know my signature is good since well you can see on bug report it let one go through but not this time
[06:39] <mwhudson> well i don't know
[06:40] <mwhudson> i would guess that somehow the mail got mangled en-route
[06:41] <mwhudson> gnomefreak: and, heh, if i manually put the long lines back together, the signature is good
[06:42] <gnomefreak> that makes me think its Tbird, Maybe i use tbird 3 once i get caught up
[06:49] <LaserJock> holy cow, my edge just changed :-)
[06:50] <LaserJock> I just noticed the new tabs
[06:51]  * Hobbsee pokes edge.
[06:51] <Hobbsee> yes, you do want to load
[06:51]  * Hobbsee blinks
[06:52] <Hobbsee> \o/ the useful panel moved up
[06:52] <Hobbsee> and, uh, yay for cascading multiple horizontal menus...
[06:53] <gnomefreak> i just noticed that as well
[06:53] <Hobbsee> interesting design decision...
[06:53]  * gnomefreak can do without the right handed menu but i guess i have to get used to it
[06:53] <LaserJock> heh, that made me chuckle
[06:54] <LaserJock> originaly they were on the right, then they were moved to the left
[06:54] <LaserJock> now they're back right
[06:54] <gnomefreak> oh
[07:26] <Peng> OOPS-923D576
[07:27] <Peng> Oh, right, I forgot, devpad requires HTTP auth.
[07:27] <Peng> Working now, so never mind.
[07:32] <poolie> hello Hobbsee
[07:33] <poolie> ooh shiny
[07:34]  * mwhudson off for the weekend
[07:35] <Peng> mwhudson: Have a nice weekend. :)
[07:36] <Peng> Huh, in bug displays, the related branch has been moved below the summary.
[07:37] <Peng> I don't like the new layout. It's a lot of white space with links and little icons and everything else all strewn about.
[07:44] <RAOF> Hm.  I think I like the new tabs.
[07:47] <poolie> i like the look
[07:47] <poolie> i haven't tried it enough to know if it works well
[07:48] <poolie> is it just me or is the middle of the footer a weird place for the search field?
[07:48] <poolie> that seems very odd
[07:49] <RAOF> No, I think that's a strange place, too.  You're not alone.
[08:04] <Laibsch> Can sombody please abort the import of https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/gnucash/trunk (the admin of the server is complaining about excessive use of bandwidth) and use http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~siretart/gnucash/svn-repo.tar.gz for the initial setup instead? mwhudson?
[08:06] <Peng> Laibsch: mwhudson just left.
[08:06]  * Peng leaves too.
[08:07] <Laibsch> peng anybody else you recommend?
[08:07] <Laibsch> mwhudson not in London time zone?
[08:07] <andrea-bs> Laibsch: try with one of this people: https://launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/+members
[08:08] <Laibsch> thanks
[08:08] <andrea-bs> you're welcome
[08:10] <Laibsch> ping lifeless, thumper, rockstar, jml about gnucash import six or seven lines above.  please abort the download and use the tarball instead
[08:13] <jml> Laibsch: I've suspended the import.
[08:13] <Laibsch> jml: thanks
[08:13] <Laibsch> can you also import from the tarball?
[08:13] <jml> Laibsch: I can't kill the currently running job though
[08:13] <jml> Laibsch: I personally can't.
[08:14] <Laibsch> where should I file the request for that?
[08:14] <jml> Laibsch: mwhudson may be able to, but it's dinnertime on a Friday night for him.
[08:14] <jml> Laibsch: ask a question on Launchpad-Bazaar
[08:14] <Laibsch> Oh, asia?
[08:14] <jml> NZ
[08:14] <Laibsch> close enough ;-)
[08:14] <Laibsch> btw, I think the wiki-link on https://launchpad.net/~vcs-imports should be fixed
[08:15] <Laibsch> plus there should be a link to that page where you can request an import
[08:15] <Laibsch> I always have a bitch of a time hunting that down
[08:16] <jml> I think those are both good ideas.
[08:16] <Laibsch> can you do that?
[08:16] <jml> not right now :)
[08:16] <Laibsch> I can't even file a bug or a question against vcs-imports
[08:17] <jml> that's because vcs-imports is a team
[08:17] <Laibsch> I guess launchpad-bazaar will have to do, then
[08:17] <jml> you can't file a bug against a team
[08:17] <Laibsch> well, LP suggests it is possible ;-)
[08:17] <jml> where?
[08:17] <Laibsch> LP can be pretty confusing there
[08:18] <Laibsch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports
[08:18] <Laibsch> https://answers.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports
[08:18] <Laibsch> the sheer existence of that page
[08:20] <jml> Laibsch: I don't find that so confusing. I mean, I wouldn't think I could file a bug on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~r0lf
[08:21] <Laibsch> well, but the page at least has a meaning
[08:21] <Laibsch> so, I would say the natural thing is to assume that the page has some meaning
[08:21] <Laibsch> All I am saying is it can be confusing
[08:21] <Laibsch> It confused me
[08:21] <LaserJock> I kind of agree with Laibsch
[08:22] <LaserJock> though I know you can't
[08:22] <LaserJock> 1) I'd often like to file bugs against teams
[08:22] <andrea-bs> how about a message "This page is not to report a bug against this team/person" on the top of the page?
[08:23] <jml> andrea-bs: maybe
[08:23] <Laibsch> andrea-bs: why not eliminate that page for teams?
[08:23] <LaserJock> 2) a team can be subscribed and assigned to bugs, seems logical to be able to file a bug against a team
[08:23] <jml> andrea-bs: a thing with that style of solution is that there are many things that the page is not :)
[08:23] <LaserJock> Laibsch: what page?
[08:23] <Laibsch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports
[08:23] <jml> Laibsch: because it's *useful*
[08:23] <Laibsch> https://answers.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports
[08:23] <andrea-bs> Laibsch: because it is useful to see which bugs are related to a team/person
[08:23] <LaserJock> Laibsch: those pages are useful
[08:23] <Laibsch> OK
[08:23] <LaserJock> heh
[08:24] <LaserJock> it's just you can file a bug against a team, but you can subscribe or assigne the team to a bug
[08:24] <LaserJock> *can't file
[08:25] <jml> LaserJock: something along the lines of filing bugs against people or teams would be useful
[08:25] <jml> LaserJock: except probably not actual defect reports
[08:25] <andrea-bs> jml: mh... maybe giving some buttons to report bugs to the related projects?
[08:25] <jml> Bug against jml: fails to buy new milk when the old carton runs out
[08:25] <LaserJock> it's especially useful if there isn't a related project
[08:25] <jml> Expected: new milk to be bought
[08:25] <jml> Observed: no new milk
[08:26] <jml> Steps to reproduce bug: drink almost all the milk
[08:26] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if people appling for membership in a team could be treated as a bug
[08:26] <jml> andrea-bs: yeah, I like that idea more.
[08:27] <andrea-bs> jml: should I file a bug?
[08:27] <jml> andrea-bs: please do.
[08:27] <LaserJock> andrea-bs: how do you know what the related project is?
[08:27] <andrea-bs> LaserJock: when a team is linked to a project (e.g. is a bug supervisor)
[08:28] <jml> LaserJock: "most active in" is another way of getting a short list
[08:28] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't particularly see the usefullness of that
[08:28] <LaserJock> I don't know that there's confusion between a team and it's corresponding project is there?
[08:29] <jml> LaserJock: it's certainly not the most pressing issue on Launchpad
[08:29] <LaserJock> I thought the confusion was that it seemed like it should be possible to file a bug against a team
[08:29] <LaserJock> or have we gotten on a tangent :-)
[08:29] <jml> LaserJock: we've gone on two tangents :)
[08:29] <LaserJock> \o/
[08:30] <jml> just like that, yes.
[08:30]  * jml makes a bad geometry / ascii-art pun
[08:30] <jml> time to run away!
[08:30] <jml> g'night folks.
[08:30] <LaserJock> that was rather funny ;-)
[08:57] <mrevell> hi
[09:28] <thekorn> hi, how is Security vulnerability been presented in a bugreport on stable these days?
[09:28] <thekorn> as far as I remeber there was a big sign with an exclamation mark near the private icon some time ago,
[09:28] <thekorn> but it's gone now
[09:38] <tzd> hi. I've recently received emails regarding a thread I'm not subscribed to. I can't find it under subscribed bugs and I was hoping you could delete the subscription please?
[09:38] <stgraber> tzd: have a look at the bottom of the mail, there is the reason why you received that mail
[09:39] <stgraber> (for example, you may be in a team that's bug contact for a project/package)
[09:40] <tzd> stgraber: i see. Thanks!
[09:41] <tzd> stgraber: hmm can't find anything like that. I've got:  "You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug".
[09:42] <stgraber> hmm, maybe someone subscribed you to this bug ?
[09:42] <stgraber> in this case you can go to the bug page and unsubscribe from it
[09:45] <tzd> stgraber: yeah i tried that but i can't find that exact bug under "List subscribed bugs"... I only have 5 subscriptions and it's not under there
[09:47] <stgraber> there is a link to the bug in the e-mail
[09:52]  * beuno wonders why edge is more up to date then staging
[09:52] <tzd> stgraber: there usually is one but for this thread there's not a link. The only listed link there is to the actual bug itself
[09:52] <wgrant> beuno: Because it has updated more recently, perhaps...
[09:52] <wgrant> tzd: Go to the actual bug, and click unsubscribe there...
[09:52] <beuno> wgrant, AFAIK, staging is updated first, then, if nothing goes terribly wrong, that moves on to edge
[09:53] <beuno> I may be wrong though
[09:53] <wgrant> beuno: I believe they're unrelated.
[09:53] <wgrant> How would wrongness detection work?
[09:53] <tzd> wgrant: ah found it now! Thanks to you and stgraber!
[09:54] <beuno> well, staging uses the actual full LP DB, so it's a good place to see if the changes made have problems on a larger scale
[09:58] <wgrant> beuno: edge doesn't use the full LP DB?
[09:59] <beuno> wgrant, it does, but the production DB
[09:59] <beuno> and, well, over 1000k users using it
[09:59] <beuno> as opposed to staging
[10:00] <wgrant> edge will only update when there are no DB changes yet, so there's likely no benefit it doing it on staging first.
[10:00] <beuno> right
[10:00] <beuno> well, I guess I just assumed it worked that way
[10:00] <beuno> I'll poke mpt about it when he gets here
[10:01] <wgrant> Hardly anybody seems to use staging, and we get regressions on edge all the time, so it doesn't work well even if it is the case.
[10:02] <beuno> wgrant, true
[10:30] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[10:37] <thekorn> hi mpt, I think you are the right one to answer my question I ask about one hour ago
[10:37] <thekorn> let me quote it:
[10:38] <thekorn> 10:28 < thekorn> hi, how is Security vulnerability been presented in a bugreport on stable these days?
[10:38] <thekorn> 10:28 < thekorn> as far as I remeber there was a big sign with an exclamation mark near the private icon some time ago,
[10:38] <thekorn>  hi, how is Security vulnerability been presented in a bugreport on stable these days?
[10:38] <thekorn> < thekorn> but it's gone now
[10:39] <mpt> thekorn, it's not shown on launchpad.net currently, but it's shown on edge.launchpad.net, and launchpad.net will be fixed within a week.
[10:40] <mpt> oh, snap
[10:40]  * mpt didn't even notice you were pasting the question :-)
[10:40] <mpt> I was reading scrollback
[10:42] <thekorn> mpt: ok, thanks
[10:42] <thekorn> and sorry for pasting it again, did not notic ou were 'away ' when I asked the question
[10:43] <mpt> nm
[10:52] <klausthorn> hi.   i can't login to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu. Anyone time to give an advice?
[11:08] <klausthorn> since I can't login to launchpad and nobody cared for my problem, where can I go next?
[11:10] <beuno> klausthorn, what's your LP username?
[11:11] <mrevell> klausthorn: Hey, yeah, if you could give us your username I'll take a look.
[11:11] <mrevell> klausthorn: Could you tell me what you mean by no one cared for the problem?
[11:11] <klausthorn> I just know what email address I entered. Username is probably "Klaus Thorn". thanks
[11:11] <klausthorn> emaila ddress would be<EMAIL_ADDRESS>by the way
[11:12] <beuno> mornin' mrevell
[11:12] <mrevell> howdy beuno. How's London today?
[11:12] <mrevell> klausthorn: I'll look up your account
[11:12] <klausthorn> mrevell: I just meant that no one answered to my initial question ("cant login...anyone time to give advice?")
[11:13] <mrevell> klausthorn: Ah, sorry I didn't spot your original question.
[11:13] <beuno> mrevell, no rain, so it's probably a great day  :)
[11:13] <mrevell> heh :)
[11:13] <klausthorn> mrevell: no problem, I just didn't know what to do next
[11:14] <mrevell> klausthorn: Hi - I'll ask one of my colleagues to take a look at your account. I'm sorry you've been unable to login. What error message does it give you?
[11:16] <klausthorn> mrevell: unfortunately no error message. I get the page where I clicked on "Login/Register" again, still not logged in. (I also tried to give a false password which gives me a good error message.)
[11:17] <mrevell> klausthorn: Thanks.
[11:18] <mrevell> klausthorn: I'll get one of my colleagues to take a look and hopefully we should have you back up and running soon. It may be a couple of hours, though, I'm afraid.
[11:19] <klausthorn> mrevell: thanks very much. I'll make notes to not forget what I wanted to enter into launchpad for the meantime.
[11:20] <mrevell> klausthorn: Great, thanks and sorry again.
[11:20] <intellectronica> klausthorn: do you have cookies enabled in your browser?
[11:23] <klausthorn> intellectronica: thanks for this question. To my surprise - yes they are enabled to almost any site. And to my second surprise launchpad.net was in the list of blocked sites. You solved my problem. thanks
[11:23] <mrevell> ah, intellectronica, thanks.
[11:24] <intellectronica> np
[11:26] <klausthorn> mrevell: sorry for my request. But although I could have known better I did not check cookies. Nevertheless it could be helpfull to make launchpad a cookie-check and warning(if disabled) automatically.
[11:45] <Rafik_> Hi all,
[11:59] <mpt> bug 30679
[12:00] <mpt> klausthorn, mrevell: ^
[12:01] <mrevell> thanks mpt!
[12:24] <andrea-bs> mpt: "Also affects distribution" should be "Also affects distribution/package" or something similar ;)
[12:25] <mpt> andrea-bs, yeah, see bug 1334 and the other reports linked from there
[12:25] <andrea-bs> thanks, mpt
[12:26]  * mpt knows that bug number by heart ;-)
[12:26] <andrea-bs> :D
[12:26] <persia> mpt: Don't you know all the bug numbers by heart?
[12:27] <mpt> not any more
[12:27] <persia> Hmm.  I'm not sure if that's good or not.
[12:27] <mpt> Not since I was told I was spending too much time dealing with new bug reports :-)
[12:29] <persia> mpt: Yeah: balance of sanity vs. volume :)
[12:30] <klausthorn> mpt: thanks. Always sad seeing bugs open for months though.
[12:32] <mpt> That one's actually kinda my fault, I should have designed a combined page
[12:33] <klausthorn> bye and thanks for the help to all
[12:46] <andrea-bs> mpt: sorry, I don't remember a thing: will menus on the right sidebar be collapsible in the new UI?
[12:52] <mpt> andrea-bs, no
[12:53] <andrea-bs> mpt: ok, thanks
[12:59] <wgrant> mpt: Ermmmm.
[12:59] <wgrant> mpt: That is a fatal flaw.
[13:00] <wgrant> With the current subscriber setup.
[13:00] <wgrant> You will have people flying over just to attack you for that decision.
[13:01] <andrea-bs> wgrant: I think that there will be a "More..." link when subscribers or tags are too much to be listed
[13:01] <andrea-bs> wgrant: there's a bug about that, let me find it
[13:02] <mpt> wgrant, first, the subscription links will very shortly be moving from the bottom to the top of the box
[13:02] <geser> good to hear
[13:02] <wgrant> mpt: And what about the tags list which is dozens of screens long?
[13:02] <mpt> wgrant, second, gmb is going to disappear the "Duplicates of this bug" box so that it's not above the Subscribers box
[13:03] <wgrant> Will it go somewhere sane like behind a 'This bug has N duplicates' link?
[13:03] <mpt> wgrant, and third, in the unlikely event that BjornT doesn't fix bug 152878 in time, the source package details box will move above the Subscribers box.
[13:03] <mpt> wgrant, exactly.
[13:03] <wgrant> mpt: Yay!
[13:03] <wgrant> What about the tag list?
[13:03] <wgrant> Or is that already gone?
[13:03] <wgrant> Because it is gigantic in Ubuntu.
[13:04] <mpt> The tag list, that's still a problem.
[13:04] <mpt> Maybe now someone will fix it. ;-)
[13:04] <wgrant> It would be wonderful to not have tags exist forever...
[13:04] <wgrant> And to require privileges to create new tags...
[13:04] <andrea-bs> wgrant: bug #59154
[13:23] <Odd_Bloke> The new tabs on the Edge interface have a border at the left-most edge which ruins the rounded effect.
[13:25] <beuno> Odd_Bloke, I don't follow
[13:27] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, that's the least specific sentence ever.  The new tabs at the top of the interface (Overview, Bugs &c.) seem to have a straight border at the left of each tab, reaching down to the base of the button.
[13:27] <Odd_Bloke> I wonder if this is a rendering issue.
[13:27] <beuno> Odd_Bloke, what broswer are you using?
[13:28] <Odd_Bloke> Epiphany.
[13:28] <mpt> Odd_Bloke, we're still not sure exactly which part you're talking about -- could you take a screenshot and draw a ring around the exact problem?
[13:29] <Odd_Bloke> Sure, gimme a moment.
[13:30] <mpt> thanks
[13:31] <Odd_Bloke> http://daniel.daniel-watkins.co.uk/Screenshot.png
[13:31] <Odd_Bloke> mpt: ^
[13:32] <mpt> weeeird
[13:32] <wgrant> Odd_Bloke: Which backend?
[13:32] <Odd_Bloke> I'm seeing it with Galeon and Iceweasel too.
[13:32] <wgrant> As that's not Ubuntu.
[13:32] <Odd_Bloke> Well, the one that's shared with Galeon and Iceweasel, the name of which completely escapes me.
[13:32] <wgrant> Gecko.
[13:32] <Odd_Bloke> It's Debian (hence Iceweasel).
[13:32] <Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Yup.
[13:32] <wgrant> Epiphany can do WebKit as well.
[13:33] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I was going to say 'not WebKit', but didn't know if there were only two choices.
[13:33] <wgrant> Which version of Gecko are you using?
[13:33]  * andrea-bs uses Epiphany with Gecko too but doesn't have any problem
[13:33] <wgrant> Works fine on Intrepid here.
[13:33] <Odd_Bloke> "Powered by gecko-1.9"
[13:33] <Odd_Bloke> From Epiphany's About.
[13:33] <Odd_Bloke> I'm afraid I have to run now.
[13:33] <wgrant> What does Iceweasel say?
[13:33] <wgrant> Ah.
[13:34] <wgrant> Unfortunate.
[13:34] <Odd_Bloke> "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008062910 Iceweasel/3.0 (Debian-3.0~rc2-2)"
[13:34] <Odd_Bloke> Anyhow, *GONE*.
[13:34] <wgrant> Hrm.
[13:35] <mpt> I don't know what we can do about that
[13:35] <mpt> Possibly it's a problem with the image library
[13:36] <mpt> or a problem with the graphics card
[15:42] <HomeDawg> any admins around that I can ask a quick question?
[15:44] <persia> HomeDawg: You might ask the question anyway: sometimes other people also have the answer (but not always).
[15:46] <HomeDawg> well, i'm looking to take control of the nubuntu project on launchpad
[15:46] <HomeDawg> tomb has been out of the question for years and is no longer around to move ownership to my accuont
[15:47] <HomeDawg> so, basically, what i was wondering is if there was any way to have that switched over so I can now manage the project
[15:47] <beuno> HomeDawg, file a questions requesting it with all the information
[15:48] <beuno> it has been done before
[15:50] <HomeDawg> any idea what i should submit that o?
[15:50] <andrea-bs> HomeDawg: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[15:50] <HomeDawg> andrea-bs: thank you :)
[15:51] <andrea-bs> HomeDawg: you're welcome
[16:47] <zwnj> hi there
[16:48] <zwnj> i want to patch a package an upload to my PPA, but i forgot what should i do, after changes, to make the *_source.changes files
[16:48] <Nyad> Hi. I am working on a project which does calculations for dams and how much water they can yield. The project is for work and currently only calculates values based on my country's data. I have permission to release this as GPL from my boss. Does this allow it to be hosted on launchpad?
[16:48] <Nyad> legally
[16:48] <andrea-bs> zwnj: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart should be what are you looking for
[16:49] <persia> If you add all the right GPL headers, it's certainly OK to be hosted as GPL.
[16:50] <Nyad> thanks
[16:51] <zwnj> #ubuntu-devel
[18:08] <bbyever> hello
[18:09] <bbyever> we in ubuntu-mx-marketing would like to have a mailing list, but when we try to activate it we get a "The application for this team's mailing list has been declined. Please contact a Launchpad administrator for further assistance" message
[18:14] <mario_limonciell> Hi guys, I was wondering about bug 134456.  How do I get added to the uploaders list for a package at this point?
[18:14] <mario_limonciell> since it appears that this fix is released now
[18:18] <laga> oooh, nice
[18:20] <mario_limonciell> yeah it's kinda important too now, since the context of the example in the bug is the situation now
[18:23] <persia> mario_limonciell: There's currently neither a UI nor an approvals process.
[18:24] <mario_limonciell> persia, yeah that's what i had thought was probably the case
[18:25] <persia> mario_limonciell: As I understand it, getting an approvals process for Ubuntu is currently waiting on TB review of the larger archive-reorg proposal.
[18:26] <mario_limonciell> persia, so it's a bit too hopeful for this portion of it to be done sooner than i suppose :(
[18:27] <parumi> hi, I requested a svn import which unfortunately failed (see https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/clam/trunk), which i guess needs to be manually reactivated. Yesterday I left a question about this (https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38806) but no answer so far.  Maybe asking here I'm more luky :-)
[18:28] <persia> mario_limonciell: I'm not sure.  I expect per-package to work sooner than per-seed, but in terms of policy, it's probably the same decision.
[18:29] <mario_limonciell> persia, any idea who particularly is driving this portion of it?
[18:29] <persia> mario_limonciell: Not really.  Colin drafted the proposal, but I don't know if it's been submitted to the TB.  It's not on the TB agenda (although I also don't see the next meeting on the fridge).
[18:30] <mario_limonciell> so maybe i'll ask colin in -devel then..
[18:35] <bbyever> is there anything we could do to get a mailing list?
[18:36] <mzjilani> Hello, i have a question : How can i delete my Launchpad account ?
[18:37] <persia> mzjilani: Not easily: if you delete it, and do anything anywhere, it gets recreated anyway.
[18:37] <mzjilani> persia : What do you mean by "do anything anywhere" ?
[18:38] <persia> mzjilani: Commit any code to any tracked project.  Submit any bug to any tracked bugtracker.  Comment on any said bug.  Send email to any tracked list.
[18:39] <mzjilani> persia : Ok.
[18:43] <bdmurray> intellectronica: ping
[18:44] <Isotopp> " Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. " <- http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lenz-mysql/
[18:45] <beuno> Isotopp, how did you land on that page?
[18:46] <Isotopp> via the homepage of mylvmbackup (also gave that message) and then hitting "up" multiple times
[18:46] <Isotopp> all levels have that message
[18:47] <beuno> Isotopp, well, that's not a valid URL  :)
[18:47] <Isotopp> ah, https://code.launchpad.net/~lenz-mysql/mylvmbackup/trunk is bacl
[18:47] <Isotopp> Thanks
[18:48] <Isotopp> but http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lenz-mysql/mylvmbackup/trunk/changes now gives me that mesage
[18:48] <beuno> Isotopp, yes, that's a real problem
[18:49] <beuno> mwhudson, ^
[18:49] <beuno> Isotopp, admins will take a look
[18:49] <beuno> I'd say trying again in a few minutes should fix it
[18:49] <beuno> if not, we can nag more people  :)
[18:50] <Isotopp> The important thing is that I got my checkout.
[18:50] <Isotopp> The rest is decoration...
[18:51] <bigdo2> is launchpad browse source down?
[18:51] <bigdo2> Please try again                    Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
[18:51] <bigdo2> is the browser message I have been getting
[19:01] <intellectronica> bdmurray: hi
[19:02] <bdmurray> intellectronica: Hi, I was looking at bug 191639 again and thought there might be a use case for date-left-closed or something like that
[19:03] <beuno> lifeless, LH in LP seems dead again
[19:04] <intellectronica> bdmurray: sure, if you think that you can use it, let's do it. it's quite cheap to implement
[19:04] <bdmurray> intellectronica: I think it be useful to find bugs that were once closed - unless there is another way to track that...
[19:05] <intellectronica> bdmurray: well, we have bugactivity, but you know the limitation of that facility. it's quite difficult to search in it, since it's textual.
[19:05] <bdmurray> intellectronica: right, I'll submit a new bug then
[19:06] <intellectronica> bdmurray: it's really quite easy to record date_left_closed, so go ahead and file a bug (feel free to subscribe me to it)
[19:12] <bdmurray> intellectronica: I've reported it as bug 247675
[19:13] <intellectronica> bdmurray: thanks. i'll bring it up next week and make sure it gets scheduled soon
[19:14] <intellectronica> oright, weekend time
[19:14] <intellectronica> have a good one everyone
[19:26] <thekorn> codebrowse on http://bazaar.launchpad.net seems to be down :(
[19:27] <beuno> Rinchen, ^  (don't know who to ping)
[19:29] <elmo> bounced
[19:30] <beuno> thanks elmo   :)
[19:30] <thekorn> thanks, it's working again
[21:02] <Laibsch> Can somebody please abort the running import of https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/gnucash/trunk (the admin of the server is complaining about excessive use of bandwidth) and use http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~siretart/gnucash/svn-repo.tar.gz for the initial setup instead?
[21:36] <Rinchen> Laibsch, someone suspended it for you
[21:37] <Laibsch> yes
[21:37] <Laibsch> but the current import is still running
[21:37] <Laibsch> plus, I'd like somebody to make the import from the tarball
[21:38] <Rinchen> Laibsch, I have to defer to mwhudson on that.
[21:39] <Rinchen> He's not available currently.
[21:39] <Laibsch> Is he the only one who can do the change?
[21:39] <Laibsch> Will he be available on weekends?
[21:40] <Laibsch> I understand he is based off NZ
[21:41] <Rinchen> He's the only one trained for it. I can invalidate the import but I can't import the tarball
[21:42] <Laibsch> well, that is one more step at least
[21:42] <Laibsch> I'd be thankful
[21:42] <Rinchen> do you want me to see if I can completely cancel the import?
[21:43] <Rinchen> Laibsch, ^^
[21:45] <Rinchen> I'm not sure I can cancel it completely without taking down the entire import machine, which I won't do.
[21:45] <Rinchen> but I can attempt it.
[21:47] <Rinchen> looks like it will run for another 30 hours before timing out
[21:54] <Laibsch> yes, please cancel the current import if you can do so without collateral damage
[22:02] <Rinchen> Laibsch, best I can do is mark it failing (which it is anyway).  :-(
[22:03] <Rinchen> Laibsch, I'm going to email mwh and others and see if I can learn how to do this better in the future.
[22:06] <Laibsch> thanks
[22:08] <Rinchen> it seems to me we should have a means to cancel active jobs on the import worker but I don't see an option to do that, even with my admin privs.
[23:23] <sistpoty> hi, does anyone know the answer to https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/38935 ?
[23:24] <sistpoty> (in short: why do I have xserver-xorg-driver-ati installed, but the info on lp might tell me that it's nonexistant since dapper?)
[23:24] <sistpoty> (which is only a guess, from what the info about min12xxw tells me)
[23:27] <Rinchen> sistpoty, I'd pose that one to the ubuntu folks actually
[23:27] <Rinchen> sistpoty, looks like they are separate packages
[23:28] <sistpoty> Rinchen: sure, the two are separate packages
[23:28] <Rinchen> sistpoty, and they configure those packages inside LP, not the LP devs per se
[23:29] <sistpoty> Rinchen: maybe I should rephrase the question to "how can I determine if a package has been removed from the archive"
[23:29] <X-R3> hello
[23:29] <Rinchen> ah! yes, that's a different question :-)
[23:29] <sistpoty> (or rather *when*)
[23:30] <sistpoty> Rinchen: I'm quite puzzled by this, since slangasek told me that he believes that xserver-xorg-driver-ati would have been present still in 8.04 (which matches my broken upgrade path)
[23:30] <Rinchen> sistpoty, unfortunately I know we can answer that but I cannot since I don't know enough about how that works
[23:30] <sistpoty> heh
[23:31] <Rinchen> sorry about that :-(
[23:31] <sistpoty> Rinchen: anything I should add to make the question more clear? or would you like to clarify?
[23:31] <sistpoty> np
[23:32] <Rinchen> sistpoty, no, I'll add something and point the soyuz guys at it.
[23:32] <sistpoty> Rinchen: ok, thanks a lot!
[23:32] <beuno> sistpoty, maybe you have https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati  ?
[23:34] <sistpoty> beuno: no, actually this package superseeds the -driver package, (but is missing a conflicts entry against it)
[23:35] <sistpoty> beuno: cf. bug #247681
[23:35] <geser> sistpoty: are you sure xserver-xorg-driver-ati is still in intrepid? because apt-cache showsrc doesn't return anything
[23:35] <beuno> sistpoty, and it's not possible you've been draggong it from dapper?
[23:35] <Rinchen> it could be if it's installed locally
[23:35] <sistpoty> geser: my first guess was that it was *not* in intrepid...
[23:36] <sistpoty> beuno: might be the case actually, but very unlikely, since then xserver-xorg-driver-all would have had an unmet dependency for hardy
[23:36] <geser> p.u.c lists the package only for dapper
[23:36] <beuno> sistpoty, well, I can't find that package in the archive
[23:36] <sistpoty> (as told by slangasek)
[23:37] <sistpoty> geser: yes, and rmadison does as well
[23:37] <X-R3> hello
[23:37] <X-R3> Yaw burda türkce  bilen  bi allahin kulu yokmu
[23:38]  * beuno blinks
[23:38] <KuRDiSTaN> Burda  Türkce Kürtce BiLen Yokmu
[23:39] <sistpoty> hm... indeed I can confirm that xserver-xorg-driver-ati doesn't exist on gutsy... so it seems likely I dragged it in from dapper
[23:39] <LaserJock> hmm, would there be any way to tell people when they try to bzr branch that is failed that it isn't an up-to-date branch?
[23:39] <Rinchen> merhaba I sakin düşünmek birisi -in bizi burada konuşmak Türk.
[23:39] <Rinchen> except KuRDiSTaN I guess :-)
[23:40] <KuRDiSTaN> Rinchen  Sen  Türkce  biliyonmu
[23:40] <beuno> LaserJock, say what?
[23:40] <beuno> branch that is failed?
[23:40] <LaserJock> beuno: yeah
[23:40] <LaserJock> vcsimports
[23:41] <geser> sistpoty: I see that xserver-xorg-video-ati 1:6.6.3-2ubuntu1 (feisty) had the conflicts but it isn't mentioned afterwards
[23:41] <LaserJock> like right now if I bzr branch 3/4 vcsimports I've done they've failed and I get an outdated branch
[23:41] <beuno> LaserJock, ah, they should probably block that before the branch is successful. Sounds like a bug to me  :)
[23:42] <LaserJock> it would be interesting if bzr could tell me that when branching/pulling rather than hunting down why I haven't had any updates for a couple months :-)
[23:42] <LaserJock> beuno: well, it's after the VCS has been running
[23:42] <LaserJock> so you I don't know that you can just stop serving that branch
[23:43] <LaserJock> or I guess that would at least give you an error so maybe it would be better
[23:43] <sistpoty> geser: it would make some sense, in case the xserver-xorg-video-all has an or'd dependency
[23:43] <geser> sistpoty: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/xserver-xorg-video-ati/1:6.8.0-1 lists the conflicts also for hardy. only intrepid doesn't have them
[23:43] <beuno> LaserJock, ah, that's an interesting use case. Probably falls on LP side, or a plugin for bzr
[23:43] <sistpoty> geser: though it still gives me the creeps that slangasek is wrong and I was right in the first place *g*
[23:44] <LaserJock> beuno: well, for me it's a quite common use case ;-)
[23:44] <LaserJock> beuno: apparently I only pick projects that kill bzr imports ;-)
[23:45] <beuno> LaserJock, the issue would be distringuishing between branches that just don't have anything new, and branches that have failed
[23:45] <beuno> bzr doesn't have anything that can handle that, but LP could
[23:45] <LaserJock> but maybe LP should stop serving imports that have failed
[23:46] <beuno> yes, after X days of failing, I think it should
[23:46] <beuno> that sounds like a better bug to file  :)
[23:46] <LaserJock> I have 1 that hasn't worked since Oct./Nov. 2007 :-)
[23:46] <geser> sistpoty: enjoy it, it won't happen again that fast
[23:47] <sistpoty> xheh
[23:47] <sistpoty> -x
[23:47] <LaserJock> and it tries to import it twice a day :-)
[23:48] <beuno> ah, the server must be quite annoyed
[23:48] <LaserJock> but yeah, 3 out of 4 isn't a good rate at all :(
[23:49] <beuno> no, although there's something to be said about your choice in branches  :)
[23:49] <LaserJock> well, they don't do anything exotic that I know of
[23:50] <LaserJock> git-svn/git-cvs work just fine on them ;-)
[23:50] <LaserJock> another thing that would be a nice general workaround at least
[23:50] <LaserJock> would be to be able to import from a specific revision on
[23:51] <beuno> stacked branches
[23:51] <LaserJock> I really don't care too much about the old revisions that broke, I want to see the right now
[23:51] <beuno> that will land in 1.6
[23:51] <beuno> so that'l work in a couple of weeks  :)
[23:51] <LaserJock> on Launchpad?
[23:51] <beuno> "everywhere"
[23:52] <beuno> LP uses the latest and greates bzr
[23:52] <LaserJock> but there probably wouldn't be an interface for it
[23:52] <LaserJock> would the code hosting admins have to do it?
[23:54] <beuno> LaserJock, nope, you will be able to do it from the bzr UI
[23:54] <LaserJock> beuno: how do you mean?
[23:55] <beuno> LaserJock, let me try and find you a link...
[23:56] <beuno> LaserJock, http://jam-bazaar.blogspot.com/2008/05/this-week-in-bazaar_29.html
[23:58] <beuno> anyway, I'm off to bed now


[15:29] <cpaelzer> hiho
[15:30] <cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
[15:30] <meetingology> Meeting started at 15:30:08 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[15:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
[15:30] <cpaelzer> Ping for MIR meeting - didrocks joalif slyon sarnold cpaelzer jamespage ( eslerm dviererbe )
[15:30] <cpaelzer> Let us check who is still around this week ...
[15:31] <cpaelzer> wow I didn't expect that level of silence ... double checking the time
[15:31] <cpaelzer> ok, in this case there won't be much discussion
[15:31] <sarnold> good morning
[15:31] <cpaelzer> let me run through things quickly for the log to exist and as it is the last chance before holiday time to catch something urgent
[15:32] <cpaelzer> ah, hi seth - glad to not be alone :-)
[15:32] <sarnold> same :D
[15:32] <cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
[15:32] <cpaelzer> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[15:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[15:32] <cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
[15:32] <cpaelzer> dkim is worked on
[15:32] <cpaelzer> cryptx being the last that I've seen filed
[15:32] <cpaelzer> prompter is worked on as well accoridng to last weeks comment
[15:32] <cpaelzer> actually new (or I fail to remember) would be
[15:33] <cpaelzer> nut -> libmodbus
[15:33] <sarnold> seems new to me too
[15:33] <cpaelzer> pipewire -> roc-toolkit + speexdsp
[15:33] <sarnold> roc-toolkit seems familiar but not in /lastlog :(
[15:34] <cpaelzer> well let us ping jbicha and seb128 for awareness on piprewire
[15:34] <cpaelzer> nut is with server, so I need to raise this in the team
[15:34] <jbicha> yes, seb128 is working through pipewire/roc-toolkit
[15:34] <cpaelzer> ok, that is enough for us to know atm - thanks jbicha
[15:35] <seb128> cpaelzer, we are, I started writting MIRs today but I'm unsure now if we rather want those to universe
[15:35] <seb128> the libs are not actively maintained and lack tests so I expect the MIR to be work there
[15:36] <cpaelzer> in this case I'd also expect them to better stay in universe
[15:36] <cpaelzer> or step up and add the maintenance and QA to feel confident
[15:36] <cpaelzer> for nut I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nut/+bug/2046263
[15:36] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2046263 in libmodbus (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmodbus" [Undecided, Incomplete]
[15:37] <cpaelzer> ok, good here for now
[15:37] <cpaelzer> was worth to identify those
[15:37] <cpaelzer> next ...
[15:37] <cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
[15:37] <cpaelzer> Mission: ensure to assign all incoming reviews for fast processing
[15:37] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:38] <cpaelzer> It seems all but me are gone and sarnold is better used on seucrity reviews :-) And I can't do three of them
[15:38] <cpaelzer> picking libcryptx as I at least know a bit of the context
[15:39] <cpaelzer> The rest has to wait until next time (2024 I guess)
[15:39] <cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
[15:39] <cpaelzer> Mission: Identify required actions and spread the load among the teams
[15:39] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:40] <cpaelzer> There also is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/isc-dhcp/+bug/2045771 which jumped right into Won't Fix intentionally, but raising it for wareeness
[15:40] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2045771 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] isc-dhcp-server" [Undecided, Won't Fix]
[15:40] <sarnold> I wonder if the maas team knows it's going away?
[15:40] <cpaelzer> They know for more than a year
[15:40] <sarnold> excellent. sort of.
[15:40] <cpaelzer> and had committed to get rid of their dependency
[15:41] <cpaelzer> On https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus-broker/+bug/2015538 TBH as I read it everybody hoped the others have time
[15:41] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2015538 in dbus-broker (Ubuntu) "[MIR] dbus-broker" [Undecided, Incomplete]
[15:41] <cpaelzer> that is unlikely to work out :-/
[15:41] <sarnold> yeah :(
[15:41] <cpaelzer> The two of us here won't fix that today
[15:41] <cpaelzer> going on
[15:41] <cpaelzer> #topic Process/Documentation improvements
[15:42] <cpaelzer> Mission: Review pending process/documentation pull-requests or issues
[15:42] <cpaelzer> #link https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/pulls
[15:42] <cpaelzer> #link https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-mir/issues
[15:42] <cpaelzer> nothing new here
[15:42] <cpaelzer> #topic MIR related Security Review Queue
[15:42] <cpaelzer> Mission: Check on progress, do deadlines seem doable?
[15:42] <cpaelzer> Some clients can only work with one, some with the other escaping - the URLs point to the same place.
[15:42] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=%5BMIR%5D&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:42] <cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/+bugs?field.searchtext=[MIR]&assignee_option=choose&field.assignee=ubuntu-security&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
[15:42] <cpaelzer> Internal link
[15:42] <cpaelzer> - ensure your teams items are prioritized among each other as you'd expect
[15:42] <cpaelzer> - ensure community requests do not get stomped by teams calling for favors too much
[15:42] <cpaelzer> #link https://warthogs.atlassian.net/jira/software/c/projects/SEC/boards/594
[15:42] <cpaelzer> sarnold: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgssglue/+bug/2044535 entered this just minutes ago
[15:42] -ubottu:#ubuntu-meeting- Launchpad bug 2044535 in libgssglue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libgssglue" [Undecided, New]
[15:42] <cpaelzer> do you need to manually do something to make it appear in Jira too?
[15:43] <sarnold> we've had success contacting the libmysofa maintainer using non-canonical infrastructure, there's encouraging sounds there; and there's some progress on the perl MIRs that are in flight, we've had some success with fuzzing and other tools :)
[15:43] <sarnold> sweet!
[15:43] <cpaelzer> wow, that sounds all good
[15:44] <cpaelzer> let us make sure this energy isn't lost while everyone gets their deserved downtime
[15:44] <sarnold> yes and yes :)
[15:44] <cpaelzer> might I ask - fuzzing as in "fuzzed and good" or in "fuzzed and<PHONE_NUMBER> bugs to fix first" ?
[15:44] <sarnold> probably more like the former
[15:45] <cpaelzer> glad to hear that on mysofa btw
[15:45] <cpaelzer> ok, all fine for the time being
[15:45] <cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
[15:45] <sarnold> 	response text = {"errorMessages":[],"errors":{"description":"The entered text is too long.   Minutes at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2023/ubuntu-meeting.2023-12-12-15.30.moin.txt
[15:46] <sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, hehe


[00:12] <elijah> How would I determine how much space the svn-bridge information takes under .bzr?
[00:13] <elijah> (For a repository imported via bzr-svn.)
[00:20] <lifeless> what do you mean 'svn-bridge' ?
[00:21] <elijah> If I import with bzr-svn, I may want to later do an incremental update.
[00:22] <elijah> Does bzr-svn store any information to make later updates easier?
[00:22] <elijah> If so, how much space does such information take?
[00:23] <elijah> (i.e. it's not fair to compare svn storage requirements to bzr storage requirements using bzr-svn on an existing svn repository if bzr-svn is storing extra information about bridging to an alien repository)
[00:24] <elijah> From poking around under .bzr, it appears the answer is not much, if anything...but I just want to be sure.
[00:24] <lifeless> elijah: the mapping data you are talking about goes in ~/.bazaar/
[00:24] <lifeless> elijah: and is regenerated on demand
[00:25] <elijah> ah, so if I have a svn checkout of foo in foo-svn and a bzr-svn checkout of foo in foo-bzr, then it is fair to compare 'du -hs foo-svn' and 'du -hs bzr-svn', yes?
[00:25] <elijah> (Well, keeping in mind the fact that bzr stores all information on the branch instead of just a copy of the latest version)
[00:27] <james_w> elijah: yes.
[00:27] <elijah> cool, thanks.  :)
[00:28] <james_w> elijah: however it may not be representative of what you would have with a pure bzr branch of the same revisions, as bzr-svn may have some overhead, but it is all mixed in with the .bzr metadata
[00:28] <elijah> doh
[00:28] <elijah> well, I probably can't measure that easily, so I guess I'll have to do without.
[00:29] <lifeless> also
[00:30] <lifeless> we have annotations cached in .bzr
[00:30] <lifeless> some formats make them optional, if storage is a premium
[00:30] <lifeless> and in about 2 months we're expecting a 50% size reduction in .bzr
[00:30] <elijah> with the knit-pack format?
[00:33] <beuno> lifeless, would you have a few minutes to talk about the XML/Output Abstraction patch?   We're still unsure on to procede...  :(
[00:42] <lifeless> beuno: yes, but not right now sorry
[00:42] <lifeless> elijah: with a successor based on it. new delta logic and ordering
[00:42] <lifeless> elijah: its a minor tweak now we have the infrastructure in place.
[00:42] <lifeless> later all
[00:44] <beuno> lifeless, np, tnx anyway
[00:44] <elijah> lifeless: cool
[00:44] <elijah> thanks for the help, lifeless and james_w
[04:07] <AfC> Does[n't] Launchpad have a bzr:// server running?
[04:13] <jamesh> AfC: no
[04:14] <jamesh> just http: and bzr+ssh: at the moment
[04:14] <jamesh> and sftp:
[04:14] <jamesh> you can access all branches via http and bzr+ssh
[04:14] <AfC> jamesh: yeah, but http:// is deadly slow
[04:15] <jamesh> try bzr+ssh then
[04:15] <AfC> I'm surprised at them for not running a Bazaar server. Hello, dogfood.
[04:15] <jamesh> we are running a Bazaar server
[04:16] <AfC> There are some pretty evident differences between invoking a single bzr serve for a short duration over an SSH tunnel, and having a bzr serve daemon running.
[04:16] <jamesh> AfC: we did have bzr+http set up a while back, but it seems to have bit-rotten
[04:16] <AfC> jamesh: (yeah, I gave up trying to make that work)
[04:16] <AfC> (too)
[04:17] <jamesh> there do seem to be some bugs in Bazaar related to closing connections
[04:17] <AfC> jamesh: Incidentally, in reply to your response of "try bzr+ssh://" to "my http:// is deadly slow", my comment was really more directed along the lines of "everyone is publicly being told (by Launchpad itself, and everything else)
[04:18] <jamesh> AfC: well, we're looking at changing those instructions to "bzr branch lp:whatever"
[04:19] <AfC> jamesh: to do bzr clone http://whatever ... and thus the very first impression they get of Bazaar as a result is pathetic performance. We observed an improvement of the order of 22 minutes to ~105 seconds by switching to a public bzr:// instance
[04:20] <AfC> jamesh: yeah, I filed one myself about CLOSE_WAITs.
[04:20] <jamesh> AfC: sure.  http or sftp are not really comparable to bzr or bzr+ssh
[04:20] <AfC> [which is usually a pretty clear flag or such]
[04:20] <AfC> s/or/of
[04:21] <AfC> The Bazaar hacker crew it talking about 1.0 any day now; it's things like what we've been speaking about which I would encourage be cleaned up lest the marketing opportunity they are hankering after be wasted.
[04:21] <AfC> s/it/is
[04:21] <AfC> Apparently I haven't had enough coffee yet today
[04:21] <jamesh> I wonder if we have a bug for adding plain bzr:// protocol support
[04:23] <AfC> I'll file one if you want, but that's really your internal business.
[04:23] <jamesh> please do so
[04:26] <jamesh> AfC: how many squares were on the senate ballot paper for you?
[04:27] <AfC> jamesh: Zero.  Same problem in New York. I lived there years. I PAY TAXES. And yet I am unable to exercise representation. Taxation without representation has been the singular most dominating issue driving western politics in the last 300 years. Even religious conflict is usually cover for this issue]
[04:29] <jamesh> I remember one of my former colleagues who moved states in Canada
[04:30] <jamesh> the two states had different enrollment rules, so he got taken off the roll in the old state, but had to wait a while before they'd put him on the roll in the new state
[04:30] <jamesh> so he missed the election
[04:30] <AfC> uh huh
[04:31] <jamesh> (can't remember which type of election it was though)
[04:31] <AfC> I'm pretty much a permanent expatriate now. It's ok. I kinda like it that way.
[04:32] <AfC> I love how when I try to report a bug in launchpad it crashes my web browser.
[04:34] <AfC> jamesh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/164790 filed
[04:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164790 in launchpad "Launchpad should run a Bazaar server and advertise bzr:// URLs." [Undecided,New]
[04:36] <jamesh> with the changes I did to the launchpad plugin for Bazaar, it'd be trivial to get people using bzr:// instead of http:// for lp: URLs purely through changes on the server
[04:38] <AfC> jamesh: that makes sense
[04:39] <AfC> jamesh: I'm mostly an outsider on all this, but we made an early commitment to Bazaar for what we believe are the right reasons. My colleagues and I just want to see Bazaar put forward as successfully as possible as a result.
[04:39] <AfC> ie removing cruft, etc
[04:40] <jamesh> AfC: yep.
[04:40] <jamesh> hopefully you'll find some of the new Launchpad features in the coming months useful
[04:41] <AfC> [IMO (nothing humble about it) merely calling it "1.0" has little to do with achieving that. I know that'll bring more users, but on the other hand
[04:41] <AfC> there are so many warts (and the two competitors are improving in usability rapidly enough) that it's really quite underwhelming as a result. Little things matter.
[04:42] <jamesh> 1.0 is not the end by any means though
[04:42] <AfC> But the nature of leadership making is that people make input and then a decision is taken. Martin has made his call, fine]
[04:42] <AfC> jamesh: I know.  Why would you invite this?
[04:43] <jamesh> you'd have to ask one of the Bazaar guys about release planning -- I'm primarily a Launchpad developer
[04:44] <AfC> Sure
[04:44] <AfC> s/you/Canonical/
[04:44]  * AfC is used to getting panned and mocked when he makes releases. Alas.
[04:45] <AfC> That's Open Source for ya.
[07:43] <fullermd> AfC: That's why I take great care to get my code ALMOST ready for release, and then never touch it again.  It's not laziness, it's careful PR!  ;)
[07:43] <AfC> fullermd: ha
[07:44] <fullermd> Having spent the last couple days working on code in mtn, I'm reminded of how much I prefer bzr.
[07:46] <fullermd> But I do agree that a current 1.0 isn't just tempting fate, it's slapping a 'Kick Me' sign on yourself.
[07:56] <Owner> hello, I've got a question about using bazaar with asp.net+IIS projects, anyone around?
[07:57] <fullermd> I dunno what the question is, but I'll bet the answer involves holy water...
[07:59] <bp> :) it's not as bad as you think, infact I kind of actually have a solution to the problem, but I wanted to know if bazaar supports the fix "officially"
[08:01] <bp> The problem is that IIS seems to reject applications that contain directories with a "." (period) in their names. I.E. the .bzr folder
[08:02] <bp> there seems to have been a bug report filed back in 2006: http://bazaar-vcs.org/UnderscoreControlDir   but I can't find any recent mention of it.
[08:02] <fullermd> What, it ignores the whole directory because there's one file like that in it??
[08:03] <bp> not ignores, per say, just acts wierd in certain situations
[08:03] <bp> renaming .bzr to _bzr (or anything else for that matter) fixes the problem, but of course this breaks the repo.
[08:03] <fullermd> That's fwacky.
[08:04] <fullermd> I do remember the _bzr discussion, but it's certainly not currently there.  I don't remember if it just petered out, or got voted down for some reason, though.
[08:04] <bp> yup, so basically I'm asking if bazaar supports renaming the repo folder.
[08:05] <fullermd> AFAIK, no.
[08:05] <fullermd> You might be able to put a wrapper around all bzr commands that mv it from _bzr to .bzr, do the bzr stuff, then mv it back.
[08:06] <fullermd> Or just keep the VCS separate from the deployment.
[08:06] <beuno> under apache, he means  :p
[08:06] <fullermd> The former has its problems, but may work.  The latter's how I do stuff, but it does mean a little more infrastructure work.
[08:06] <fullermd> Well, obviously, apache is the Right Answer  ;)
[08:07] <bp> hmm, yeah those are valid solutions, but I think I might just attempt to apply the patch in the aforementioned link. Thanks for your help.
[08:07] <fullermd> Well, the actual changes are probably a lot more involved than that suggestion there.  I'm pretty sure that only gets one place of the number that look for .bzr.
[08:09] <bp> oh, well. I guessed as much, especially since that was back in 2006. Meh, no big deal, just a minor annoyance.
[08:12] <beuno> bp, you could serve it through ftp
[08:12] <beuno> anonymous ftp if you need public access
[08:13] <bp> oh, no I'm not trying to make the repo public.   Even for IIS.
[08:15] <beuno> I was under the impression he wanted to branch from http
[08:18]  * beuno reads it through again and realizes it was pretty clear
[08:18] <beuno> no more IRC for me after 4am
[08:18] <bp> :) thank's for trying beuno. hmm, just noticed Martin Pool (poolie) and Robert C (lifeless?) are on the channel, I think I'll just lurk for a few hours and hope they see the convo
[08:19] <fullermd> Pshaw.  That's the best time   ;)
[08:19] <fullermd> Well, it's Saturday night for them.  They may check in, but...
[08:19] <lifeless> bp: I've seen that you had one, but not the content, and I'm on the way out to dinner
[08:19] <lifeless> bp: mailing the ist would be a good thing to do
[08:20] <fullermd> lifeless: asking after _bzr support
[08:20] <fullermd> Did that discussion just peter out, or did we decide against it?
[08:21] <lifeless> I think its got enough UI problems we are more against than for
[08:21] <lifeless> but its not an impossibility; whats the reason - broken webserve or 'dont want an empty dir' ?
[08:21] <lifeless> actually, I have to go; sorry
[08:22]  * fullermd nods.
[08:22] <bp> np, thanks lifeless, I think I'll put this issue on the lists
[08:22] <fullermd> bp: Yeah, a summary to the list is probably the best thing.
[08:22] <bp> yup
[08:55] <ubotu> New bug: #164810 in bzr "knit chunk should contains inside all meta information that index has" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164810
[09:00] <ubotu> New bug: #164814 in bzr "osutils.splitpath lose info about root directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164814
[10:16] <ubotu> New bug: #164825 in bzr-push-and-update ""pushed 0 revisions" incorrect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164825
[11:05] <dennda> Hi there. I have a problem that isn't bzr-related at all, but maybe you can help me. I heard bzr uses ElementTree a lot. Is that correct?
[11:10] <dennda> I parsed a svg-file (which is xml) with ElementTree and without altering it saved it back to the disk. the result is: http://pastebin.ca/795717 <- I want to know how to get rid of ElementTrees namespace-behaviour. It adds them automatically, which is not what I want. (It breaks the svg.) - If anyone has an Idea I would be glad if you shared it (maybe in query. Don't want to spam your channel)
[11:14] <fullermd> Well, I'm no developer or expert.  But I was under the impression that bzr didn't use ElementTree to write the XML; just to parse it for reading.  I think the writing is done manually.
[14:08] <dato> oh, no jam.
[14:08] <dato> ah, weekend. right. :)
[14:09] <rto> Are some of you well versed in the bzrlib?
[14:11] <rto> Ok, i'll just try asking a question.
[14:11] <rto> The thing is, i would like to find out which revision are "local" to a branch.
[14:12] <rto> That is, when a branch is branched from another branch, i would like a way to find the revision commit'ed on the new branch - rather than all the branches from both the new branch and the branch i branched from.
[14:13] <rto> Basically i want a bzr log --local command or something similar
[14:32] <james_w> rto: bzr missing --mine-only otherbranch?
[14:35] <rto> james_w: That seems to be somewhere along the lines of what i want, but it only lists revisions that differ between the two branches.
[14:36] <james_w> so you want all revisions that were committed to the local branch and not another branch.
[14:36] <rto> james_w: Yep, that is basically it. Something like bzr log --local
[14:37] <rto> And preferably something where you don't have to give it another branch (or more) to compare with.
[14:38] <rto> Up til now i have been able to use branch-nick to something along the lines, so local revisions are the ones where the branch nick on a revision is the same as the branch's nick.
[14:39] <rto> But nick's can change, and i think there should be some way to tell revisions committed on the branch from revisions gotten from another branch.
[14:40] <james_w> rto: well what you are asking for is not that easy to define. All the information required to do this is certainly not stored by bzr.
[14:40] <james_w> the nick is the closest you can probably get, but as you say it's not perfect.
[14:41] <james_w> also bzr log --short is kind of like that too, but again it depends on the situation.
[14:44] <rto> Hmm, it just seems like something you would want to know, for instance bzrweb could show more relevant information by only showing the revisions on the particular branch.
[14:47] <james_w> rto: well you normally define that in relation to another branch, as missing does.
[14:48] <rto> james_w: But won't you end up with having to list all the branches that you have ever merged from in the past to show just "your changes"?
[14:49] <abentley> rto: No, merges don't show up in the lefthand ancestry.
[14:49] <abentley> That is, the revisions you merge don't show up there.
[14:50] <james_w> rto: yes, it doesn't scale to many branches.
[14:50] <abentley> So all you need to know is when your branch started.  Everything on the lefthand ancestry since your branch started is stuff you committed.
[14:51] <rto> abentley: Ok, so i only need to list the branch i branched from
[14:51] <abentley> Yes.  Or know the revision you branched at somehow.
[14:53] <rto> abentley: Now _that_ sounds like something bzr should be able to tell me, the point at which i branched, or whether this branch is a branch of something else in the first place.
[14:53] <abentley> It would make sense to store that, I agree.
[14:54] <abentley> Some of our early decisions were based on the assumption that we wanted "cp -a" to be the standard way of branching.
[14:55] <abentley> That's why we don't have a branch ID or a branch-point marker.  Those things are useless if copied verbatim.
[14:56] <abentley> Since cp -a is not commonly used for branching, we could revisit that.
[14:57] <rto> abentley: Ahh, that makes sense.
[16:57] <pygi> hello all
[17:01] <pygi> would anyone be interested in writing a bzr adapter for rvcs? estimate is that it's around 500 lines of code =)
[17:06] <james_w> pygi: the Road Vehicle Certification System?
[17:07] <pygi> james_w: actually, it's not :)
[17:07] <pygi> Ruby Version Control System Abstraction Layer
[17:08] <james_w> pygi: what does it take?
[17:08] <pygi> james_w: what do you mean?
[17:09] <james_w> you need a ruby mapping to all concepts? Or just a way of getting the latest version of the code for build scripts or what?
[17:09] <james_w> and where's the code?
[17:09] <pygi> james_w: gimme a second :)
[17:10] <pygi> svn checkout http://rvcs.rubyforge.org/svn/trunk
[17:12] <james_w> ah, ok. Doesn't look too hard, but I don't know ruby, sorry.
[17:12] <pygi> james_w: it's not too hard ... I'd implement it myself, but currently playing with the abstraction code itself
[17:13] <pygi> I think that's a good way to bring bzr to ruby community =)
[17:14] <loswillios> hej
[17:19] <loswillios> I'm having some problems with bzr, seems that something isn't in its correct path: http://pastebin.com/m4eb18ec3
[17:19] <loswillios> can somebody help me with that?
[17:20] <james_w> loswillios: how did you install bzr?
[17:20] <loswillios> aptitude install bzr
[17:21] <loswillios> I have bzrlib in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/ and /usr/share/pycentral/bzr/site-packages/, I guess I need to put that in some $PATH
[17:22] <james_w> loswillios: python --version?
[17:23] <loswillios> python -V: Python 2.4.4
[17:25] <loswillios> urgs
[17:25] <loswillios> Version: 0.11-1.1
[17:25] <loswillios> I guess that's way too old right?
[17:25] <pygi> is that bzr version loswillios? :P
[17:25] <pygi> yes, that's way too old :D
[17:26] <loswillios> debian...
[17:26] <loswillios> thanks james_w
[17:31] <loswillios> hmmz
[17:31] <liw> I'm doing a "bzr add" in a source tree that happens to contain sub-directories which contain .svn dirs, and bzr-svn (I assume) wants to connect to the svn server -- is this expected behavior?
[17:31] <loswillios> even with 0.91-2~bpo40+1 from backports.org I have that problem
[17:32] <loswillios> weird stuff
[17:40] <loswillios> anyone another idea on that?
[17:42] <pygi> so anyone knows a bit of ruby and willing to write a bzr module? ^_^
[17:43] <abentley> loswillios: It sounds like bzr thinks you're trying to add files to the svn checkout.
[17:45] <abentley> sorry, I meant liw
[17:45] <james_w> loswillios: can you run python and then run import sys; print sys.path
[17:47] <liw> abentley, that perhaps be a reasonable assumption, I guess
[17:47] <liw> (why people put .svn dirs in release tarballs I do not know; I only put CVS ones in by mistake, but some people do it intentionall, go figure)
[17:48] <loswillios> james_w: ['', '/usr/lib/python24.zip', '/usr/lib/python2.4', '/usr/lib/python2.4/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/python2.4/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload', '/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.4']
[17:48] <abentley> liw: It means that you can immediately start working on the code from the tarball.
[17:48] <abentley> I was actually going to propose that bzr export start doing that.
[17:49] <liw> abentley, ugh
[17:49] <abentley> A lightweight checkout doesn't require very much space.
[17:49] <loswillios> james_w: bzrlib is in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/
[17:49] <abentley> And it means you can update to the latest code if you want.
[17:50] <abentley> Or convert it to a branch with "bzr reconfigure --tree"
[17:50] <james_w> loswillios: so can you do 'import bzrlib'?
[17:50] <liw> abentley, as long as you make it optional, I won't mind
[17:50] <loswillios> james_w: nope, ImportError: No module named bzrlib
[17:50] <liw> if I want a branch, I'll make a branch; I use "bzr export" to make release tarballs, and I don't want any vcs metadata there
[17:52] <james_w> loswillios: weird.
[17:53] <loswillios> indeed
[18:11] <abentley> liw: You aren't the person who will be using the tarball.
[18:11] <liw> abentley, yes I am
[18:12] <abentley> Really?  No one else uses your software?
[18:12] <liw> there are other users (at least sometimes), but that doesn't mean I don't use the tarball myself
[18:14] <abentley> Well, I am thinking of software that has many users who are not the author.
[18:15] <liw> abentley, I am not opposed to having an option to include .bzr/ in the export, if the user wants it
[18:15] <liw> abentley, but if you don't retain the current behavior, then I think you're making a mistake
[18:16] <abentley> All I'm talking about is bringing it up for discussion.
[18:17] <abentley> But I think that it's in-line with open-source ideals to make it easy to start hacking on the software you've just downloaded.
[18:18] <liw> and therefore you want to make it difficult to not include the .bzr stuff even for people who don
[18:18] <liw> 't want it?
[18:19] <abentley> liw: I think that it might be nice to make it a lightweight checkout by default.
[18:19] <abentley> Because I think that in the common case, the author will not be the tarball user.
[18:21] <liw> and I think having any vcs metadata in a release tarball is bad, since it messes up with the downloader's ability to set up their own version control
[18:23] <abentley> Could you expand on that?
[18:25] <liw> I've never had any use for any .svn, .bzr, .git or other such metadata included in a release tarball; rather, they interfere with things when I want to import the sources into a new branch I've created myself
[18:25] <liw> or prevent me from creating such a branch before I clean up
[18:26] <liw> if I want to branch off upstream's branch, I already have tools for that; putting extra stuff in tarballs does not give me new functionality, but does make more work for me
[18:29] <liw> (further, not all bzr branches are for software projects, of course; the .bzr stuff is of zero use for, say, when I create a zip of a document project to send to my father)
[22:13] <nekohayo> hello, is there any reason for my 3 bugs with patches (for example, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-gtk/+bug/151824 ) still lying around, in an unconfirmed state, after one month?
[22:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151824 in olive "use single click for bookmarks" [Undecided,New]
[22:13] <nekohayo> did I file them on the wrong components?
[22:13] <pygi> hello
[22:13] <pygi> anyone with at least little ruby knowledge willing to write bzr adapter for rvcs??
[22:25] <beuno> nekohayo, let me take a look. It might be due to 1.0 release being so close by
[22:25] <beuno> a lot of attention is diverted toward that
[22:26] <beuno> nekohayo, seems filed correctly, maybe you could email the list with the bug numbers so they can be looked at?
[23:04] <pygi> anyone? :P
[23:18] <nekohayo> beuno: wha, 1.0 already? of bzr or bzr-gtk you mean?
[23:19] <jelmer> nekohayo: manpower mostly
[23:19] <beuno> nekohayo, bzr
[23:19] <jelmer> nekohayo: there's only a couple of us working on bzr-gtk, and we're quite busy with other things as well