[00:39] <ninjarockstarjsd> Hello friends. I'm trying to setup disk encryption on an external drive that I want auto-mounted on system start.
[00:39] <ninjarockstarjsd> The main computer drive is already encrypted with LUKS and requires a password to start up. Is what I'm trying to do possible to do securely?
[00:40] <ninjarockstarjsd> I found this answer on SO, but one of the comment said it isn't secure at all. https://askubuntu.com/a/709653   is that true?
[00:41] <oerheks> automount on system start, that is hard. better automount on user login.
[00:41] <sarnold> ecryptfs is pretty much unmaintained, so that specific answer isn't fantastic
[00:44] <ninjarockstarjsd> sarnold, which answer are you referring to?
[00:45] <sarnold> ninjarockstarjsd: the answer you linked directly
[00:45] <oerheks> automount without password input is not secure, indeed.
[00:46] <sarnold> but using the same password for two devices is probably possible
[00:46] <ninjarockstarjsd> Is it possible to enter it only once and have both unlocked?
[00:47] <oerheks> no. unless you write a script to do so.
[00:47] <sarnold> https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/392286/7064 maybe?
[00:47] <ramblebamble> ninjarockstarjsd, as oerheks said script and use a keyfile
[00:48] <sarnold> cryptsetup: /lib/cryptsetup/scripts/decrypt_keyctl
[00:49] <oerheks> use a 2fa device like yubikey?
[00:49] <EriC^^> ninjarockstarjsd: what are you trying to achieve exactly
[00:49] <ramblebamble> sarnolds, but that encrypts on sartup not on login
[00:49] <EriC^^> or protect against
[00:49] <oerheks> on startup is a bad idea, and hard to do.
[00:49] <ninjarockstarjsd> I'm setting up a home media/nas server as a general storage for all my stuff
[00:49] <oerheks> and why, you cannot access it while booting.
[00:50] <oerheks> it does not save you time either.
[00:50] <EriC^^> ninjarockstarjsd: if someone steals the main os, he'd need the pass to decrypt it and further decrypt the ext hdd, so its safe i guess to just put the password of the ext hdd inside it to automount it
[00:51] <EriC^^> is security would be hinged on the main os's pass
[00:51] <EriC^^> *its
[00:51] <ninjarockstarjsd> The reason why I wanted to mount it at boot is because I'm setting up my various media server stuff as service and start at boot. And they'd need access to the external drive
[00:52] <EriC^^> yeah that makes sense
[00:52] <oerheks> weird.
[00:53] <ninjarockstarjsd> Can't I configure whatever decrypts my main OS HD to also decrypt my external drive given that they'd share the same password?
[00:53] <EriC^^> ninjarockstarjsd: ultimately you want to protect against theft and accessing the data right? in case they steal the main pc+ext hdd, they couldnt access it without decrypting the main os first
[00:54] <sarnold> ninjarockstarjsd: did you try /lib/cryptsetup/scripts/decrypt_keyctl from cryptsetup yet?
[00:54] <EriC^^> so putting the ext hdd's pass in plaintext on it to automount it shouldnt be an issue
[00:54] <ninjarockstarjsd> sarnold Ohh I wasn't familiar with what that is. I'll look it up now
[00:57] <EriC^^> it's redundant
[00:58] <sarnold> maybe; I just know that a stackexchange answer suggested it'd solve the problem :)
[01:01] <ninjarockstarjsd> So if that's the case, why don't I just use the Disk utility's Unlock on Startup options?
[01:01] <ninjarockstarjsd> Since my main OS won't be decrypted without me entering password anyway, that password isn't stored in plaintext, right?
[01:02] <EriC^^> i'd think the unlock at startup thing is stored in plaintext, could be wrong
[01:02] <ninjarockstarjsd> I can test it out real quick
[01:04] <EriC^^> one very edge case advantage to using the initial password to decrypt both would be if they somehow thought to see the ext hdd password before stealing/turning off the pc
[01:05] <EriC^^> or someone you know did that before stealing, who usually has access to the pc and knows its encrypted
[01:31] <kenperkins> ok, coming back to my thinkpad X1 performance issues; I think I've narrowed it down to scaling problems with the cpu. I'm considering flattening it and going from 20.04 to 21.10. Better to flatten and go via live usb or inplace?
[01:31] <oerheks> kenperkins, is there any option used to overclock that x1?
[01:32] <kenperkins> I'm not quite sure what you mean by overclock in this context oerheks; like bios or software config?
[01:32] <oerheks> yes, in your bios
[01:32] <kenperkins> I haven't looked at bios, will boot into it momentarily
[01:33] <kenperkins> but I was seeing conflicting power profile info between locations, I think it's software
[01:34] <kenperkins> when I forced the min frequency with cpufreq-set it did go above 1600, but it doesn't do it on it' sown
[01:38] <ninjarockstarjsd> kenperkins have you tried     sudo cpupower frequency-set -g performance  ?
[01:38] <ninjarockstarjsd> Seems to work for me
[01:39] <ninjarockstarjsd> But I never had any performance issues with my thinkpad x1,   I just use that to switch between powersave mode and performance mode
[01:41] <kenperkins> 1 minute; debating dinner with wife xD
[01:41] <sarnold> ooh ooh pick pizza pick pizza!
[01:45] <kenperkins> just had pizza
[01:48] <kperkins> here's a quick look at what's wrong
[01:48] <kperkins> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/X6P8yKm2bS/
[01:48] <kperkins> going to run the cpupower command now
[01:51] <kenperkins> failed, need to install kernel specific packages sec
[01:52] <kenperkins> ok succeded
[01:53] <kenperkins> well the command that is, so now running `stress -c 6 -t 60` and lscpu | grep MHz doesn't show anything over 1600
[01:53] <kenperkins> most are down at 1100
[01:54] <sarnold> how about processor temps? anything in dmesg? these cute little machines often have pretty poor thermals
[01:55] <ninjarockstarjsd> I set up LUKS on an external drive, but when I unplug it, my boot up time is close to 5 minutes LOL
[01:55] <kenperkins> sensors doesn't show any cpu above 58
[01:56] <kenperkins> I'll re-run during stress to confirm
[01:56] <ninjarockstarjsd> I'm hitting 3Ghz just fine with the performance mode command
[01:57] <sarnold> ninjarockstarjsd: ouch :)
[01:59] <kenperkins> ok, 2 minute stress on 6 cores, heat not above 62c, fastest core at 1600
[01:59] <kenperkins> (plugged in)
[01:59] <ninjarockstarjsd> Which CPU do you have? And what's the advertised speed on it?
[02:00] <ninjarockstarjsd> The Thinkpad X1 comes in a few different ones
[02:00] <kenperkins> 10710u, max should be 4.7 on one, 3.9 on all 6
[02:01] <ninjarockstarjsd> Are you sure it's not a BIOS thing?  maybe turning off power-stepping there will help performance?
[02:01] <kenperkins> double checking now
[02:02] <ninjarockstarjsd> it might be called frequency stepping too
[02:02] <kenperkins> ack
[02:05] <kenperkins> I don't see anything re: speed in bios, there's almost nothing for cpu config
[02:05] <ninjarockstarjsd> Sorry, I'm out of ideas then :(
[02:06] <kenperkins> the only cpu config setting in bios, that I see, is hyper threading, which is enabled
[02:12] <kenperkins> found it
[02:13] <kenperkins> I had a tuned-adm profile that was overriding the other profiles
[02:13] <sarnold> what tool?
[02:14] <kenperkins> I ran `tuned-adm off`
[02:14] <kenperkins> but I still can't seem to get above 3900MHz, but that's way better than 1600 max
[02:14] <kenperkins> yea, and the power reflects it on sensors, up to 71c on the package and core 1
[02:15] <kenperkins> I bet it's throttled a bit
[02:15] <sarnold> thanks, I've never heard of tuned before
[02:15] <kenperkins> it's opaque to me how tuned-adm, cpufreq-set -g govenor, etc, interoperate
[02:15] <kenperkins> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man8/tuned-adm.8.html
[02:16] <kenperkins> sorry this one
[02:16] <kenperkins> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/focal/man8/tuned-adm.8.html
[02:17] <kenperkins> still feel like I should go fresh and upgrade to 21.10 (is 22.04 going to be LTS I think?)
[02:17] <Guest8016> Yeo
[02:18] <kenperkins> not till april or so tho right
[02:18] <sarnold> yeah, probably late april
[02:19] <kenperkins> no reason to rush to 21.10 if the frequency issue is addressed, might as well wait for 22.04
[02:19] <Bashing-om> kenperkins: There is thought: Call for testing: preliminary 20.04.4 release candidate images ready! -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2022-February/005317.html .
[02:19] <kenperkins> plus gives me time to finish my bootstrap ubuntu ansible
[02:22] <kenperkins> @sarnold, I must have installed this at some point and don't remember; probably brekaing my machine in the process: https://tuned-project.org/
[02:23] <kenperkins> it's always user error, amiright? ;)
[02:23] <sarnold> kenperkins: it certainly does explain why you were having uncommon problems ;) hehe
[02:25] <kenperkins> here's a more appropriate question; out of the box, how does performance management work on laptops? should it "do the right thing" when you plug in to power?
[02:33] <kenperkins> my biggest mistake on this damn thinkpad was getting the 4k screen
[02:34] <PCBuilder> What size of Thinkpad? Because I'd personally love a 4k screen on my 14" daily driver instead of 1080p.
[02:35] <kenperkins> It's the X1, so 12? idk remember exactly
[02:35] <PCBuilder> The X1 is 14" unless they've changed that.
[02:35] <kenperkins> ah, yes, it's that then
[02:35] <sarnold> hah yeah, I did my setup on my x1 4k with the debootstrap method and the font was *so* tiny, I managed to make , vs . typo in /etc/crypttab when setting it up, and it took me forever to find that
[02:36] <kenperkins> yea I have the config in the boot menu to make it easier to see grub too
[02:36] <kenperkins> first thing I did
[02:36] <sarnold> oooh? I can't read that at all :)
[02:39] <kenperkins> sarnold, do you nnot have "GRUB_GFXMODE=1366x768" or what not in your /etc/default/grub?
[02:42] <PCBuilder> Somewhat odd question, but was there an ongoing troll raid going on recently? I help run a large-ish SubReddit and Discord and received a very angry report that someone was spamming using our custom URL and wanted to check things out and talk to any OPs about helping with the situation (as the same troll or troll group is targeting us as well but
[02:42] <PCBuilder> seems to have started switching to targeting others and attaching our URL to the posts). And the person who contact me claimed there was an active raid - but things seem quiet so they might have been lying.
[02:42] <oerheks> PCBuilder, how is that related to ubuntu support?
[02:43] <oerheks> try #ubuntu-ops maybe?
[02:43] <PCBuilder> "if you join #ubuntu on libera which is currently being raided you can see your idiocacy" <-- This was the last message the person reporting the issue sent.
[02:44] <oerheks> no.
[02:44] <misha> they're trying to get you to do the trolling for them
[02:45] <PCBuilder> I figured it might be a false report, hence asking. This is the ideal outcome.
[02:46] <PCBuilder> Thanks for confirming that.
[02:46] <sarnold> kenperkins: sweet! I'll have to fiddle with that, thanks :D
[02:48] <donnie> hello everyone. hows your night going.
[02:48] <donnie> is there an easy way to connect to a windows share with ubuntu?
[02:48] <sarnold> PCBuilder: heh yeah that doesn't sound familiar, but I lost scrollback beyond a dozen hours ago or something
[02:49] <oerheks> donnie, what windows share? samba?
[02:49] <sarnold> donnie: smbclient on the command line, mount cifs via the kernel, and both kde and gnome have things built into their "virtualized filesystem" framework things, so using their explorer.exe clones or their applications would work easy enough
[02:51] <donnie> ok. it's doing an update now but i froze the file window. have to wait until the update is done so i dont break anything. lol
[02:52] <donnie> thanks for the info. will that do it on startup or will i have to? doesn't really matter if it wont. it's only a quick connection anyway
[02:52] <donnie> is there a task manager like windows that i can kill the running process
[02:52] <spammy> kill?
[02:53] <donnie> stop.
[02:53] <spammy> oh
[02:53] <spammy> gui
[02:53] <spammy> system monitor
[02:53] <spammy> right click kill
[02:53] <donnie> cool thanks.
[02:53] <donnie> haven't played around with that too much.
[02:54] <donnie> I work in IT so I know windows much better. more businesses use it.
[02:54] <spammy> :)
[02:55] <Persuader> tomreyn: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TfVrpGrzQz/
[02:55] <Persuader> All I found were these logs.
[02:55] <donnie> system monitor doesnt seem to want to open either. must be the update. i'll hae to wait. thanks for the info though
[02:56] <spammy> yeah good to reboot or use liveupdate when updating
[02:57] <PCBuilder> Wouldn't it be easier to end the process using sudo -kill?
[02:57] <donnie> yea i seen live update when i installed ubuntu this time. Clean install when i switched over from mint. is that reliable?
[02:57] <PCBuilder> Though I guess that lacks the GUI element and is less user friendly.
[02:58] <donnie> I'm fine with both really pcbuilder.
[02:58] <donnie> I dont mind terminal either
[02:58] <sarnold> xkill can be handy if you don't know which process you want gone, but do know which window you want gone
[02:58] <sarnold> it's not nearly as powerful as kill, but it sometimes does the trick :)
[02:59] <donnie> is that an application sarnold
[02:59] <donnie> can you tag people in this chat so they see your response?
[03:00] <oerheks> just type their name will do
[03:00] <sarnold> donnie: most clients let you type a few letters and hit tab to complete the rest
[03:00] <oerheks> sar[tab]
[03:01] <donnie> yep that worked. easier to keep that chat straight that way
[03:01] <sarnold> donnie: x11-utils: /usr/bin/xkill
[03:02] <donnie> not found in my terminal. I just put the whole thing in that you send though
[03:03] <sarnold> donnie: then sudo apt install x11-utils -- then start something like xeyes, so you can kill it with xkill :)
[03:03] <donnie> lol. ok. will do.
[03:04] <donnie> thanks again guys for the info and patients. i'm sure i'll be back multiple times
[03:05] <sarnold> cool :)
[03:05] <donnie> yep. just tried it. that would come in handy. works perfectly. closed my terminal though. lol
[03:43] <ninjarockstarjsd> I have an external HDD connected via USB, but for some reason, I can't get it to mount unless I log in using the GUI. It gets mounted fine when I few it with nautilus.
[03:44] <ninjarockstarjsd> It seems to completely ignore the /etc/fstab file. It will only get mounted at the location specified in the /etc/fstab file when I log in using the GUI
[03:44] <ninjarockstarjsd> This is the /etc/fstab line for this drive:
[03:44] <ninjarockstarjsd> UUID=XYZZZZZZ    /mount/extern1    ext4    nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show    0    1
[03:46] <matsaman> USB isn't always available super early
[03:46] <oerheks> does /mount/extern1 exist? why not use /mnt/ ?
[03:46] <matsaman> you know what all those mount options are for?
[03:46] <ninjarockstarjsd> matsaman I only know what the nofail option does :D
[03:47] <ninjarockstarjsd> oerheks  I'd be fine with using /mnt,  i was just following a guide on the web
[03:47] <oerheks> weird guide then..
[03:47] <ninjarockstarjsd> and yes /mount/extern1 does exist
[03:47] <oerheks> change nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show to 'defaults' and try again?
[03:48] <ninjarockstarjsd> I can change it to /mnt if that's the right place
[03:48] <ninjarockstarjsd> Does defaults include nofail?   I didn't have it connected earlier and my boot time was more than 5 minutes
[03:48] <matsaman> ninjarockstarjsd: as long as the dir path exists
[03:49] <ninjarockstarjsd> rebooting..
[03:51] <ninjarockstarjsd> Using "defaults" didn't make a difference
[03:54] <ninjarockstarjsd> Any other ideas to try?
[03:54] <matsaman> you just want it mounted by the time you log in?
[03:55] <ninjarockstarjsd> Well, it's for a home NAS/Media server, so ideally, I don't want to have to log in
[03:56] <matsaman> well you might have to give us real information then
[03:56] <matsaman> but
[03:56] <ninjarockstarjsd> Sure, what info would be helpful?
[03:56] <matsaman> what happens when you try to mount it from a terminal?
[03:57] <ninjarockstarjsd> I haven't tried that yet
[03:57] <ninjarockstarjsd> Looking up how to do that
[03:58] <matsaman> ninjarockstarjsd: mount /dev/whatever /mount/extern1
[04:00] <ninjarockstarjsd> It doesn't like that it's encrypted:     unknown filesystem type type 'crypto_LUKS'
[04:00] <ninjarockstarjsd> But the drive gets unlocked already during bootup with a password prompt
[04:04] <matsaman> what makes you think it's unlocked before you open it in the file manager
[04:05] <ninjarockstarjsd> Because it forces me to enter the encryption password when I start up
[04:06] <matsaman> is that what you want?
[04:06] <ninjarockstarjsd> how can I test that it's decrypted without mounting it?
[04:06] <ninjarockstarjsd> Yeah, decrypt at startup, and auto-mount. That way my services can start automatically after I decrypt
[04:07] <ninjarockstarjsd> When I specify the mount type  (-t)   it complains that /dev/sdb is already mounted or mount point busy..
[04:09] <ninjarockstarjsd> to clarify, I set the type to ext4 when it gave me that error
[04:10] <ninjarockstarjsd> Figured it out
[04:11] <ninjarockstarjsd> the decrypted drive is at /dev/mapper for some reason.... extremely intuitive
[04:15] <spammy> of course, it has to map somewhere
[04:15] <spammy> can't map over /dev/sdb
[04:20] <rm-rf> Please help! I was just, umm, doing my thing and I saw this video.Yeah, so this guy told me to run rm -rf / ... now all my stuff is gone!
[04:20] <rm-rf> I heard that with mechanical drives thingys don't permanently delete; is that truth?
[04:21] <oerheks> some guy?
[04:21] <ninjarockstarjsd> troll be trollin'
[04:21] <oerheks> haha, we do  not care about trolls
[04:23] <rm-rf> I'm not a full-time troll though. And, seriously, outright harassment isn't OK.
[04:23] <rm-rf> Trolling isn't what it used to be. It used to be little more than little pranks.  And we all shine on ... like the John Lennon song.
[04:24] <oerheks> anyway,  rm -rf /  does not work on ubuntu
[04:24] <ninjarockstarjsd> I got a dumb question.    /etc/fstab wants a UUID=XXXYYYZZ,   but my drive is   in /dev/mapper/...     how do I format that for /etc/fstab?
[04:24] <ninjarockstarjsd> I tried replacing the UUID=...   with the /dev/mapper/... path, but it doesn't get mounted
[04:24] <rm-rf> Well, no, it doesn't work without a warning. Correct
[04:25] <rm-rf> But you could set your system up to ignore those warnings. Thing is, if you know how to manually bypass warnings or eradicate them, you are probabbly wise enough to not run rm -rf / in the first place.
[04:25] <spammy> rm -rf rm-rf
[04:26] <rm-rf> That looks super mean. spammy just said that I should go down a blackhole. I thought this was about community and acceptance.
[04:26] <rm-rf> I feel unsafe now
[04:26] <rm-rf> He wants to delete me for good. I assume he means Secure Erase!
[04:26] <rm-rf> And I'm all made up of SSD cells. No turning back.
[04:28] <oerheks> rm-rf, google for fork-bomb, that is much more fun, non-destructive
[04:28] <ninjarockstarjsd> will also put you on some lists :}
[04:30] <ninjarockstarjsd> Gentlemen, I've done it. I've mastered Linux. I can now book with an encrypted external drive
[04:30] <spammy> awesome
[04:33] <carnophage2> congrats
[04:33] <carnophage2> how did you do it?
[04:34] <ninjarockstarjsd> with sweat and tears
[04:34] <carnophage2> encrypt the os with dm-crypt or whatever, then have it set up to decrypt it once that's open?
[04:34] <carnophage2> either way, way to go.  when you finally get over the frustration, comprehension is like mmmm that's the stuff.
[04:35] <ninjarockstarjsd> Since I have a main drive which uses LUKS and and external one also and they both use the same encryption password, I used this method to only input password once:
[04:35] <ninjarockstarjsd> https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/392286
[04:35] <ninjarockstarjsd> Then I had to figure out where the unencrypted drive actually lives so I can mount it somewhere useful for use. This took forever, because I wasn't sure why it wasn't mounting
[04:36] <oerheks> "Unfortunately, this currently doesn't work on Debian systems using systemd" makes me happy
[04:36] <ninjarockstarjsd> :D
[04:36] <ninjarockstarjsd> i had to use the hack it mentions there
[04:37] <oerheks> just use a simple 2fa usb thingy like jubykey
[04:38] <ninjarockstarjsd> Ohhh I didn't know that was a possibility
[04:38] <ninjarockstarjsd> I just might do that
[04:39] <ninjarockstarjsd> thanks
[04:39] <ninjarockstarjsd> I wish more websites supported ubikey type 2fa
[04:40] <matsaman> I wish fewer everythings required MFA
[04:40] <ninjarockstarjsd> i loath getting SMS on my phone that then I have to type on my computer
[04:40] <matsaman> yup, it's idiotic
[04:41] <ninjarockstarjsd> or even more annoying is the  time-based ones where if you're close ot the end of the window, you just sit there and wait for it to change before you can enter it into your computer
[04:41] <matsaman> it's like a punishment for people who don't write their four-char passwords down on postits on their front doors
[04:54] <rm-rf> Yes, how does the forkbomb thingy work?
[04:54] <rm-rf> Is that the stuff that makes other stuff toast? Wooo-weeee!
[04:54] <spammy> fork, then fork again, and again, and again....
[04:54] <rm-rf> Fork you ... and sell you on Github to China
[04:54] <oerheks> it just fills your RAM
[04:55] <oerheks> no worry
[04:55] <spammy> fork until you can fork no more
[04:55] <rm-rf> We're assuming the guy who prefers to go by rm -rf /* hasn't tried such things?
[04:55] <oerheks> spoon it
[04:55] <oerheks> rm-rf, tell the truth; you are that guy
[04:59] <rm-rf> I am which guy again?
[05:59] <ninjarockstarjsd> Is NFS extremely unstable for anyone else?  I mounted an NFS drive within the same LAN and tried transfering a 5GB file, and nautilus keeps freezing or crashing
[06:00] <matsaman> NFS is constantly complained about iME
[06:00] <matsaman> IME*
[06:01] <ninjarockstarjsd> What's IME?
[06:01] <matsaman> in my experience
[06:01] <ninjarockstarjsd> ohh
[06:01] <ninjarockstarjsd> Is samba more stable?
[06:01] <ninjarockstarjsd> I was told NFS is faster and better in an all Linux environment
[06:01] <matsaman> dunno, samba is Windows nonsense though
[06:02] <matsaman> I usually use sshfs
[06:02] <matsaman> you can disable encryption if you want
[06:03] <ninjarockstarjsd> Looking into sshfs, thanks
[06:09] <rfm> ninjarockstarjsd, I have had no problem with NFS for many decades; How are you mounting the remote fs?  If it's via the nautilus gui it might be going thru some gvfs/fuse thing; real kernel nfs via mount (or /etc/fstab) might work better
[06:11] <ninjarockstarjsd> I'm mounting with just the mount command
[06:13] <ninjarockstarjsd> I disabled network on my NFS server for a second, and my nautilus on my nfs client computer became very unstable and crashed. Even after restarting, I wasn't able to open it up again because I had a mount in my home dir
[06:13] <ninjarockstarjsd> I had to do a umount -f  to get it working again
[06:13] <ninjarockstarjsd> I'm testing it again, and it's fine. Just a really bad first impression
[06:15] <rfm> ninjarockstarjsd, certainly if you have your home dir on nfs and stop the server it will be bad (we used to run that way at Sun)
[06:15] <ninjarockstarjsd> ohh no, my home directory isn't on NFS, i just had a mount within my home directory
[06:16] <ninjarockstarjsd> I think I can mitigate it with using a soft mount
[06:16] <rfm> ninjarockstarjsd, soft mounts are ok if they are read only
[06:16] <rfm> ninjarockstarjsd, I do that for stuff in my $PATH
[06:17] <ninjarockstarjsd> Reading up on it now, and it could lead to data lose :|
[06:19] <alkisg> A hard mount would mean that you would be able to restart your nfs server, and the client (e.g. nautilus) would continue writing the file from where it left off. Sometimes that's desired, e.g. for rootfs and /home, sometimes not
[06:23] <rfm> ninjarockstarjsd, I think the best advice is, don't stop or reboot your file server if you're not in a spot where you can reboot the clients...
[06:27] <ninjarockstarjsd> I will try
[06:31] <foo> Gah, getting this issue: #6 26.38 E: Unable to locate package postgresql-dev -> any two cents?
[06:32] <Persuader> I ran it again on my Ubuntu today. Ubuntu still shows no package upgrade and LivePatch doesn't work, is there any solution?
[06:34] <Persuader> My package hasn't been upgraded for a long time. I think there might be a security issue
[06:45] <alkisg> Persuader: which one is "my package"?
[06:47] <Persuader> alkisg:  It's all the packages on my system.
[06:47] <alkisg> Persuader: what's the output of `sudo apt update | nc termbin.com 9999` ?
[06:48] <Persuader> Let me try.
[06:49] <maffia> hello
[06:52] <Persuader> alkisg: The terminal says no Release file was found
[06:53] <alkisg> Persuader: did it show a termbin.com/qwer URL? Paste it here
[06:53] <Persuader> alkisg: https://termbin.com/2e5n
[06:55] <Persuader> I checked the APT log records before and found no useful information.
[06:55] <alkisg> Persuader: you're missing some sources; run `software-properties-gtk` and enable the updates for universe etc
[06:58] <Persuader> alkisg: I've always turned these options on, using the default Settings. But I can't open the livepatch, before can be open
[06:59] <alkisg> I'm not using livepatch, I'm just saying about the apt sources.list, you're missing things from there
[07:03] <Persuader> Well, I haven't found any missing options yet
[07:06] <PowaBanga> hi everybody
[07:06] <PowaBanga> i have a problem with find
[07:06] <PowaBanga>  find $PWD -type f -name 'Backup files *.zip' exec unzip {} \;
[07:06] <PowaBanga> find: paths must precede expression: `exec'
[07:07] <PowaBanga> when i writte the "exec...", find crash .... why ?
[07:18] <DoYouKnow> how do I make a bootable ubuntu usb on freebsd?
[07:19] <DoYouKnow> can I use dd?
[07:19] <DoYouKnow> I tried with the ubuntu-20.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso
[07:19] <DoYouKnow> and it didn't work
[07:34] <Persuader> alkisg: When I just re-tested the update address of the package, the computer gave me several urls that could not be connected normally. I removed these urls, and now the update has been successful
[07:38] <Persuader> Thanks
[09:43] <mhmd> Hi, If I add "IP Name" to resolve.conf file on server A, and put IP of server A in server B resolve.conf as nameserver, shouldn't I be able to ping server A by its name from server B?
[09:44] <ThinkT510> !resolvconf
[09:46] <ducasse> mhmd: if i understand you correctly, you might be confusing /etc/hosts with resolv.conf
[09:47] <mhmd> oh right
[09:48] <mhmd> thanks!
[09:48] <ducasse> you put individual name lookups in hosts
[11:08] <Guest1736> hey guys
[11:09] <kostkon_> Guest1736 hi
[11:09] <Guest1736> u using anonymous os?
[11:09] <Guest1736> anyone?
[11:11] <Guest1736> kostkon_ do u use Anonymous OS?
[11:13] <kostkon_> no I don't, ghost of past Guest1736
[12:22] <jsbach> Hi folks, i am getting a network interface error on SUSPEND with my laptop using a dock station, resulting not being able to use the wired network connection on suspend. 'e1000e 0000:00:1f.6 enp0s31f6: NIC Link is Down'
[12:23] <jsbach> I am using a .13.0-28-generic #31~20.04.1-Ubuntu Kernel for x86_64
[12:23] <jsbach> 5.13.0-28-generic #31~20.04.1-Ubuntu Kernel for x86_64
[12:25] <jsbach> any ideas?
[12:38] <donnie> in ubuntu 20.04. the option isn't there for me
[12:38] <donnie> can you use fingerprint login in ubuntu 20.04? the option isn't there for me
[12:42] <BlackMage> how names the default panel in lxqt?
[12:45] <BlackMage> i need to restart it, because the language choose hanged himself
[12:47] <BlackMage> hm
[12:49] <BlackMage> how names the config of lxqt-panel?
[12:53] <frost-core> Hey does anybody know about the missing set-default-plymouth-theme command? i need it
[13:03] <frost-core> im seeing no help so far, i have another question i need an anwser to
[13:03] <frost-core> answer*
[13:03] <frost-core> How do i host an irc channel in Ubuntu 20.04.3?
[13:13] <BlackMage> hmpf properly a bug in ibus?
[13:14] <BlackMage> i have a bug
[13:15] <BlackMage> the menu icon by ibus-daemon remains in lxqt-panel
[13:16] <BlackMage> i mean the language choose at the icon in lxqt-panel
[13:19] <BlackMage> i have only one language installed, i have lxqt-panel and ibus-daemon installed
[13:20]  * alkisg removes ibus as it's too problematic...
[13:29] <tomreyn> jsbach: try a bios update on the laptop and a firmware upgrade on the dock station
[13:40] <BlackMage> hmpf, lxqt-panel is compiled with old Qt5DBus lib?
[13:43] <ioria> BlackMage, what you mean  by  'old' ?
[13:46] <BlackMage> i cant compile the newest lxqt-panel, because of old Qt5DBus, 5.15.0 is needed, but 5.12.8 is available
[13:47] <ikonia> I guess the first question is why do you want the later lxqt-pannel version ?
[13:48] <ioria> !info libqt5dbus5
[13:48] <koffeinfriedhof> BlackMage: Qt5.12 is out of support, you need to upgrade it.
[13:48] <BlackMage> a bug with ibus-daemon
[13:50] <ikonia> BlackMage: I didn't think ibus-daemon was part of the lxqt pannel ?
[13:50] <ioria> BlackMage,  5.15 is available in impish
[13:54] <BlackMage> but the language chooser has a bug with ibus-daemon
[13:56] <ikonia> BlackMage: would it not be better to fix that bug ? rather than upgrade to version miss-match components ?
[13:59] <BlackMage> when i click on the button the language choose opens and due a bug the language choose doesnt close
[14:00] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[14:00] <BlackMage> it has to do with ibus-daemon, but dont ask me how
[14:02] <BlackMage> when i kill ibus-daemon and restart it, then language choose left
[14:02] <BlackMage> and why Xterm uses not ibus-daemon?
[14:03] <BlackMage> (that saves me)
[14:06] <BlackMage> but that was good, otherwise I would have had to do it on a virtual console (i.e. kill and restart the ibus daemon)
[14:07] <BlackMage> i think something hang at the ibus-daemon
[14:08] <BlackMage> or a deadlock at the call at lxqt-panel, idk
[14:08] <trafficjam> what's the generic name for a non-root user for deploying software?
[14:09] <trafficjam> e.g. i have a vps and i want to run a webserver, but not as root
[14:09] <tomreyn> deploy != run
[14:09] <tomreyn> there is none. you could say "restricted user for running a webserver"
[14:33] <jsbach> tomreyn, thanks. That will do i guess: UEFI: 1.43 / ECP: 1.35 (Fix) Fixed an issue where system may hang up if ThinkPad USB Universal Type-C dock with USB 3.0 Ethernet Adapter is attached.
[14:34] <jsbach> tomreyn, how do i figure out which uefi or ecp am i running?
[14:35] <tomreyn> jsbach: journalctl -b | grep DMI:    for the UEFI version, EC you'll need to check from the setup tool pre-boot
[14:37] <jsbach> tomreyn, great thanks. I am running out of the box  BIOS N34ET41W (1.41 ) 07/08/2021
[14:37] <tomreyn> some thinkpad UEFIs can be upgraded via LVFS / fwupd
[14:38] <jsbach> tomreyn, i also have snapd showing me that i could update from 0.1.41 to 0.1,47
[14:39] <jsbach> i am using traditionally apt-get maangement, i don't truly understand why snap software management is also offered.
[14:39] <tomreyn> jsbach: i don't see how that's related to snapd, but generally installing software updates is - most of the time - a good thing
[14:41] <tomreyn> current ubuntu releases provide snap(d) as a secondary package management system in addition to apt/dpkg
[14:42] <jsbach> tomreyn, does that mean that apt is going to be deprecated sometime?
[14:42] <jsbach> so, using snap parallel to the apt would not cause any problems at the moment.
[14:44] <tomreyn> under some conditions, snap can be useful for software which exposes a greater attack surface (such as web browsers and email clients on a desktop computer) and where packaging the software as .deb's would take more effort.
[14:44] <tomreyn> using apt and snap in parallel should not cause problems
[14:45] <jsbach> tomreyn, thanks for the security info. wouldn't have noticed
[14:45] <tomreyn> i do not know whether apt will be deprecated in ubuntu sometime. at some time snap packages were preferred in ubuntu GUI package manegment applications, you could say ti was the case then.
[14:46] <jsbach> ok, i'll just take the chance and update the uefi and ecp through snap and see what happens
[14:47] <tomreyn> so far, the majority of software is still installed, by default, via apt (and with the current state of the snap ecosystem, i like it that way)
[14:48] <tomreyn> jsbach: good luck with the upgrades. out of interest, does it list both uefi and ecp upgrades seperately?
[14:49] <ice9> I understand that HWE provides the latest possible kernel with patches right? so how "linux-image-generic-hwe-20.04" is the latest package in ubuntu 21.10?
[14:50] <tomreyn> ice9: what do you mean by "the latest package"?
[14:51] <tomreyn> and yes, HWE provides the latest supported (with security and bug fix patches applied) kernel package version on LTS releases
[14:52] <tomreyn> (althrough there is usually also linux-image-generic-hwe-yy.mm-edge - but that's not really supported)
[14:53] <tomreyn> 21.10 is not an LTS release
[14:54] <tomreyn> ice9: some more info on the kernel series: https://gist.github.com/tomreyn/8d7675840d7bc7389b32e4d8887ca449
[14:59] <Guest9898> Hi guys, can I create a paste without creating an account and logging in or are sites like pastebin.com allowed?
[14:59] <EriC^^> Guest9898: yeah just head over to http://paste.ubuntu.com
[14:59] <coconut> Guest1566, all pastebins are allowed here afaik
[14:59] <ice9> tomreyn, you mean that HWE is intended for LTS releases but for others, it's already using a recent kernel?
[15:00] <Alex948> EriC^^The problem is that I'm being asked to signup/login to create a paste there
[15:00] <EriC^^> uf that's new
[15:01] <EriC^^> you could use any other pastebin service, no issues with that
[15:01] <Alex948> Thank you!
[15:05] <tomreyn> ice9: i mean that HWE is for LTS releases, right. non-LTS (9-month lifetime) releases only have the general availability kernels, they don't usually get upgrades (but updates), and their version may and often will differ from an LTS releases' HWE version.
[15:06] <tomreyn> Alex948: some other pastebin-like services such as the debian pastebin and termbin.com still work fine, and don't involve ads, massive javascript or tracking.
[15:09] <ice9> since ubuntu is based on debian, why ubuntu doesn't offer to place grub on separate device during installation like debian does?
[15:10] <ogra> i does if you pick setups that require it ..
[15:11] <tomreyn> it does when you do manual partitioning. it just may not do what it says it does.
[15:12] <Alex948> tomreyn: Awesome, I'll use the Debian one then
[15:14] <Alex948> I want to make the switch from Windows 10 to Ubuntu Desktop 20.04.3-amd64 as a daily driver. I need my entire drive to be encrypted, including the home, boot, tmp and swap directories. I want to make so that if my device / hard drive was to be stolen, they would not be able to read any data without entering the passwords at boot time. Even if they
[15:14] <Alex948> removed the hard drive, it should resist being attacked from outside programs. I followed the guide on the official Ubuntu docs to achieve this ( https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Full_Disk_Encryption_Howto_2019 ). Unfortunately, I don't trust my own skills enough, so I'd love to have a quick sanity check. Can anybody tell me if I have achieved my
[15:14] <Alex948> goal or if I missed something? With this setup, can I be 100% sure that ANY data written ANYWHERE will be encrypted by LUKS, no matter if its personal files, RAM written to swap, hibernation images and temporary files? Logs: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/92baedfb
[15:14] <leftyfb> Alex948: cat /etc/os-release | nc termbin.com 9999     # I find this way easier
[15:15] <leftyfb> Alex948: yes, you should be good
[15:19] <Alex948> leftyfb: I'll be honest, I still find the filesystem quite confusing, the way mounting works etc. I'm sure there are some obscure / hidden directories where tmp files will be saved, for example during browsing. How can I be sure that I've redirected everything into the encrypted partition?
[15:19] <Alex948> The way LUKS works just FEELS too easy.  Every partition is part of the LUKS volume. You're good
[15:20] <EriC^^> Alex948: yeah, if you encrypt the whole disk using luks, whenever the pc is turned off, all data can't be accessed, including the temp files which are saved in /home/user/.cache
[15:21] <donnie> this is going to be a pretty open ended question but any cool things I should try with linux. Just switched from windows to try something new. Switched back and forth a bit so not really new but not and expert either. I work in IT but thats all windows for the most part. mac every now and then but very seldom
[15:21] <leftyfb> !discuss | donnie
[15:22] <donnie> thanks leftyfb. Didnt' knwo that existed. is that in the chat channels?
[15:22] <Mitacho> Hey, guys! I'm here again. Can anyone help me to understand the problem with my microphone on Linux ? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1393594/usb-microphone-does-not-work-on-ubuntu-21-10
[15:23] <Alex948> leftyfb: EriC^^: Awesome, thanks! Also, the official Ubuntu installer has an option to enable encryption. I believe it offers to do a "full format", so that the entire drive will be written with "random" noise. I don't think I have done that with the guide linked above. Should I do that? Also, are there any specific things I need to keep in mind
[15:23] <Alex948> with NVME SSDs and LUKS encryption? Does TRIM leak any information this way?
[15:23] <leftyfb> Alex948: no and no
[15:25] <Alex948> leftyfb: Can I ask, why not? :)  I want to understand why thats not necessary in this case
[15:28] <ice9> ogra, tomreyn you can do it with manual partitioning (fully manual) but in debian it's fully automated, you just specify the external device
[15:29] <Alex948> Also, I'm wondering about the way decryption works. When I start the system, I get asked to unblock the boot drive (I belive this is done by GRUB). After that, Ubuntu can start and it asks me to unlock the main sda5 drive. But then I get another prompt by Ubuntu also asking me to unlock the /x2fboot (LUKS_BOOT) drive. Why is that necessary?
[15:29] <Alex948> So I have to enter bootpassword, datapassword, bootpassword
[15:30] <tomreyn> ice9: i'm not familiar with this very option in debian, or don't understand which one you're referring to, but there can definitely be features that debians' installer supports and ubuntu's doesn't, and (maybe more of that) vice versa.
[15:31] <leftyfb> Alex948: doesn't sound like it was setup properly then. The installer should setup an encrypted volume and stick all partitions in it including swap. As opposed to multiple separate encrypted partitions/volumes
[15:32] <leftyfb> Alex948: I'm not sure why you encrypted /boot. That's probably part of the problem. You do not need to encrypt your /boot and when you do it probably causes LUKS/installer to create the LUKS boot so you have a way to boot in order to decrypt the rest of the OS
[15:32] <Alex948> leftyfb: It was a deliberate decision to have /boot encrypted with a one password and the rest of the data (including swap) with a different password, so it doesn't surprise me that I have to enter multiple passwords. But I would have assumed that /boot is for GRUB (first password) and the rest of Ubuntu only needs the main data drive (second
[15:32] <Alex948> password)
[15:33] <Alex948> I was under the assumption that encrypting /boot would provide more security because the kernel cannot be tempered with
[15:34] <Alex948> (evil maid attack)
[15:34] <tomreyn> not while the crypto container is not opened, right
[15:34] <tomreyn> of course, the firmware could still be manipulated
[15:34] <alkisg> Alex948: how would ubuntu write to /boot if you don't unlock it?
[15:34] <alkisg> It needs to write new kernels etc there
[15:35] <leftyfb> Alex948: if someone has physical access to your machine, you lose. Either way, I think we're beyond ubuntu support here. "How does this work" should probably be in #ubuntu-offtopic or #ubuntu-discuss
[15:35] <ogra> ice9, AFAIK it picks it when you use LVM or FDE ...
[15:35] <Alex948> alkisg: Ah okay, I didn't know Ubuntu needs to actively read/write /boot, I though that only for some kind of loader and from there on the rest of the data will be on the other drive
[15:36] <tomreyn> Alex948: i think the how-to you mentioned discusses how to chain-decrypt crypto containers, so that you only need to enter a passphrase once.
[15:36] <donnie> is there a way to get itunes to work with ubuntu? is wine the only way? or is there a different program i can use in the place of it
[15:36] <leftyfb> donnie: no
[15:37] <Alex948> tomreyn: Yes, I think it does it with keyfiles. I wanted to specifically stick with two passwords in this case though
[15:37] <EriC^^> Alex948: you can add /boot into the main encrypted fs, and not use a plaintext /boot partition
[15:38] <EriC^^> you just need to add a variable to /etc/default/grub after moving the stuff to "/boot" (in the main fs)
[15:38] <EriC^^> then you only need one password
[15:38] <tomreyn> Alex948: note that the efi system partition, if you're uefi booting, will still have to be unencrypted, though.
[15:38] <tomreyn> also the efi parameter / variable store
[15:39] <EriC^^> Alex948: "GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y" in /etc/default/grub then 'sudo update-grub'
[15:39] <Alex948> The problem is that I actually cannot use a very secure password in the GRUB prompt. This is because the GRUB prompt only works with US keyboard layouts and the layout of my keyboard is different. So I cannot enter my really strong password there. When Ubuntu boots up and shows its prompt it actually remembers my locale default keymap so I can
[15:39] <Alex948> enter all kinds of characters correctly. So the GRUB /boot password is a relatively simple one, just to prevent other people from tinkering with the /boot
[15:39] <donnie> leftyfb: so wine is my only option then? or a different computer for that. lol
[15:39] <Alex948> GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y is added during the official guide ( linked above)
[15:40] <leftyfb> donnie: different computer
[15:40] <donnie> yea i agree. that would be the least headache. I seem to remember trying wine before and it didnt work right at all.
[15:40] <leftyfb> Alex948: you made your system needlessly complicated and are asking why your system is complicated
[15:43] <Alex948> leftyfb: I said in the beginning that my experience is very limited and that this is the reason why I'M following the guide I linked. If you have any other guides that seems more appropriate for what I want to do (protect all data from being read without entering password at boot time), I'd love to read them! As I said, I'm asking for advice
[15:43] <Alex948> because I don't know exactly what I'm doing, only following advice found on the internet. Maybe you can tell me whats "needlessly" complicated?
[15:43] <matt92> HI there
[15:44] <KBar> matt92: hi and welcome. Please, ask your questions!
[15:44] <leftyfb> Alex948: my advice, don't bother encrypting /boot. Let the installer create just the single encrypted volume with your OS and swap in it and only have 1 passwor
[15:44] <matt92> I have an issue when I use my private ssh keys. I get an error message 'Permission denied (publickey).' when  I use my private keys in other DEs but in gnome they work fine. How do I fix this so I can use my private ssh keys in other DEs?
[15:45] <Alex948> leftyfb: OK, by installer do you mean the official Ubuntu Graphical installer? If so, does the installer ask where to place the swap partition? I don't remember
[15:45] <tomreyn> matt92: on the other DEs, access the private keys as the same user you do when running gnome
[15:46] <leftyfb> matt92: DE's do not care about file permissions of ssh private keys. Your key should be set to 0600
[15:46] <matt92> Yep I'm using the same user. I think it might have something to do with the gnome-keyring perhaps?
[15:46] <donnie> Alex948: From my IT experience you cant have completely secure and convenient at the same time. you gotta be somewhere in the middle. I might be wrong on that and linux may have something i'm not aware of but i'm look at it from the IT standpoint
[15:46] <leftyfb> Alex948: I haven't used the GUI installer for this. I use the legacy server installer
[15:47] <leftyfb> matt92: gnome keyring doesn't get used in other DE's by default
[15:47] <Alex948> donnie: I agree. I'm not a terrorist, so I don't need protection from the NSA/CIA. I just want protection from somebody stealing the drive and easily mounting it / attacking it with hashcat and an RTX 3060 for a while.
[15:48] <tomreyn> matt92: it might. you can see which ssh keys the ssh client reads, and from where, and which authentication methods it attempts when you pass mutiples of -v to the ssh command.
[15:49] <leftyfb> Alex948: if your machine is stolen, consider it compromised. Wipe it and re-install. The point of the encryption is to prevent your private date being leaked. Again, we are beyond Ubuntu support at this point. Feel free to discuss further in #security
[15:50] <tomreyn> Alex948: the ubuntu desktop installer offers the setup leftyfb mentioned (unencrypted /boot, everything else ubuntu-ish (not the ESP) encrypted).
[15:50] <donnie> Alex948: yea i agree. thats a whole other thing if people are stealing your drives
[15:50] <tomreyn> Alex948: swap is a file, not partition, by default on newer ubuntu releases
[15:50] <Alex948> leftyfb: Got it. I guess if somebody had the access to manipulate the /boot / kernel I have already lost. That makes sense. So to summarize: Your advice would be to leave the setup as it is because it encrypts all relevant locations and files (tmp, swap, data), but to leave the /boot unencrypted  and just use one password for the main LUKS drive?
[15:51] <leftyfb> Alex948: if you were to do it again, yes
[15:51] <Alex948> Awesome, I'll give that try. Thanks for your time!
[16:04] <Alex948> tomreyn: I replied to your last message in #security in case you didn't see it
[16:09] <tomreyn> Alex948: we can definitely discuss anything regarding the ubuntu installer here, too.
[16:12] <matt92> Hi there, turns out you were right. The permissions of the keys were incorrect. Also when I log into gnome the ssh keys 'disappear' from the .ssh directory while logging into other DEs they appear in the .ssh directory so it was clear to me gnome is managing them in some way. I googled what the correct permissions were and setup an 'config' file in
[16:12] <matt92> the ssh directory and the issue is fixed. Thought I'd mention the fix here for the benefit of people reading the logs
[16:15] <lantech19446> I have an ubuntu server that is a 120G ssd + 2Tib I've identified that the 2Tib is configured to 2 separate disks identified in /dev by sdb and sdc I can't figure out for the life of me how to access them.
[16:18] <lantech19446> they wouldn't show up in /dev if they weren't already mounted right?
[16:35] <leftyfb> lantech19446: run: lsblk
[16:36] <lantech19446> leftyfb: I did that's how I know that the 2 storage disks are labeled as sdb and sdc and then I checked to make sure they appear in /dev
[16:36] <leftyfb> lantech19446: to answer your question, the device files for the drives will always be there regardless of the device is mounted or even partitioned
[16:37] <lantech19446> I can't even cd into them
[16:37] <leftyfb> lantech19446: did you mount them?
[16:37] <leftyfb> lantech19446: does lsblk show partitions or just the drives?
[16:37] <lantech19446> just the drives
[16:38] <leftyfb> If there’s no partitions then you need to partition and format them
[16:39] <lantech19446> ok makes sense, I just figured I must be overlooking something because why wouldn't they have partitioned them but I guess it's so I can do as I please with the server
[17:07] <BlackMage> can i make a xorg.conf?
[17:07] <BlackMage> in ubuntu 20.04?
[17:07] <oerheks> Yes.
[17:09] <oerheks> https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/focal/man5/xorg.conf.5.html
[17:09] <oerheks> put a custom one in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ folder
[17:10] <BlackMage> exist no /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
[17:10] <oerheks> indeed, that would be generated from the ones in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
[17:11] <oerheks> virtually*
[17:15] <BlackMage> where i enable at best the LCD Brightness Control?
[17:15] <BlackMage> for keyboard
[17:16] <BlackMage> and other function keys
[17:18] <Maik> BlackMage: did you google for it?
[17:25] <oerheks> brightness control depends on what videocard, *hint*
[17:26] <oerheks> and ehm... you better bing than google
[17:28] <BlackMage> no, no the backlight from the internal keyboad
[17:28] <oerheks> without proper info, we don't know where to look for
[17:28] <oerheks> how would *you* answer such Q?
[17:29] <BlackMage> and the display brightness work also not
[17:29] <BlackMage> only volume control do work
[17:30] <BlackMage> so no other function keys work
[17:32] <oerheks> oke, do we need to ask what hardware exactly?
[17:35] <BlackMage> bios version MBP91.88Z.00DA.B00.1804091930, Apple MacBook Pro 13" - A1278 - Mid 2012
[17:43] <coconut> Firefox keeps going wrong with my mouse(does not work at all anymore), when firefox will get updated to 97.0.1?
[17:44] <coconut> This only happens on one tab though
[17:45] <Maik> coconut: the snap version is already at 97.0.1
[17:45] <coconut> Maik, i use the ubuntu repo from another distro on this laptop
[17:45] <Maik> and as you know it will take a bit of time before the deb version gets updated
[17:45] <coconut> :)
[17:46] <Maik> from another distro?
[17:46] <Maik> you know that's not supported here, you're on your own and at own risk of doing so
[17:46] <coconut> Maik, yes, and i can ask the other distro off course, but still canonical updates the repo
[17:46] <coconut> so that's why i ask here(and yes i know)
[17:47] <Maik> what's the PPA from?
[17:48] <coconut> Maik, you ask me?
[17:48] <Maik> or the repo as you call it
[17:48] <Maik> yes
[17:49] <coconut> Maik, https://termbin.com/47e8
[17:50] <oerheks> so you have 97 already?
[17:50] <coconut> yes but not the latest 97.0.1
[17:51] <coconut> from yeserday i believe
[17:51] <oerheks> i do not have .0.1 either, just wait for it?
[17:52] <Maik> the deb will take some more time, especially since they move FF over to snap as default now
[17:52] <Maik> coconut: so you run 21.10?
[17:53] <coconut> ah, ok... something i should have respect for seeing i have another distro
[17:53] <coconut> yes(pop!_os 21.10)
[17:54] <Maik> yeah well, Pop OS is not supported here, you should have asked them imho
[17:55] <Maik> but we've been trough the FF question before so you'd have known the answer to why it's not updated yet already
[17:56] <Maik> iirc you asked a similar question months ago or last year somewhere
[17:57] <coconut> Maik, i know it takes a few days with firefox but when the browser does not work well, then i should just ask for a newer version seeing it is buggy
[17:57] <coconut> i can not do that off course, but still it is better to show it, i guess
[17:57] <Maik> then switch to the snap version, that way you get updates faster
[17:57] <coconut> treu
[17:57] <coconut> *true
[17:58] <Maik> you can't ask for a new version here, it's not up to us but the maintainers
[17:58] <Maik> Firefox, as said before, is going to be snap only from 22.04 on
[17:59] <coconut> true, but still if users do not report about problems ubuntu does not get feedback...
[17:59] <chan> exit
[18:00] <coconut> Maik, oh then pop os will get into problems with that i guess, and have to ppa firefox if they want to keep it a deb?
[18:00] <Maik> coconut: problems should be reported on launchpad
[18:01] <Maik> about a PPA you should ask the Pop OS guys
[18:01] <coconut> Maik, yes i should indeed kick me in the but for that, but i really don't like launchpad really.
[18:01] <coconut> i will
[18:01] <coconut> thanks Maik
[18:01] <Maik> np :)
[18:03] <dirtcastle> Debian/unstable
[18:03] <dirtcastle> The emacs-snapshot packages are now built with this support: http://emacs.secretsauce.net
[18:04] <dirtcastle> can i use this on ubuntu
[18:05] <oerheks> dirtcastle, maybe, but that guide is wonky; sudo apt-key add -   ## is depreciated to add the key
[18:05] <dirtcastle> I'm new to ubuntu apt totally
[18:05] <oerheks> https://www.linuxuprising.com/2021/01/apt-key-is-deprecated-how-to-add.html
[18:06] <oerheks> wget -O- <https://example.com/key/repo-key.gpg> | gpg --dearmor | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/<myrepository>-archive-keyring.gpg
[18:06] <oerheks> good luck!
[18:06] <dirtcastle> yup! thanks for ur time!
[18:07] <fling> which ubuntu release has 5.10?
[18:07] <oerheks> 5.10 what?
[18:07] <fling> 5.10 kernel
[18:08] <oerheks> some EOL version, too lazy to look up
[18:09] <oerheks> 21.04 used to have 5.10, EOL
[18:09] <fling> is it focal?
[18:10] <leftyfb> fling: why do you think you need 5.10?
[18:10] <oerheks> no.
[18:10] <oerheks> !21.04
[18:10] <fling> leftyfb: to see what cgroups patches are not yet upstreamed into 5.10
[18:10] <leftyfb> fling: why 5.10?
[18:11] <jhutchins> !lts
[18:11] <fling> yes
[18:11] <leftyfb> fling: 5.13 is the latest LTS kernel for focal
[18:12] <alkisg> No, focal (20.04) had 5.4, 5.8, 5.11 and 5.13. It never had 5.10.
[18:12] <alkisg> Except for the OEM kernels: https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=linux-image-5.10
[18:16] <Kilroy> !22.04
[18:19] <jhutchins> When do they usually freeze the kernel?
[18:20] <Maik> jhutchins: kernel freeze for 22.04 is on April 7th
[18:21] <Maik> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/jammy-jellyfish-release-schedule/23906
[18:21] <shibboleth> debian installer?
[18:21] <leftyfb> shibboleth: maybe try a full question with context
[18:22] <shibboleth> will the deb installer be an option?
[18:22] <oerheks> kernel freeze.. there is a time table for that .. hard to find on google, bing is better
[18:22] <Kilroy> what is a kernel freeze?
[18:22] <leftyfb> !22.04 | shibboleth
[18:22] <shibboleth> ?
[18:22] <Maik> shibboleth: ask in #ubuntu-next
[18:23] <Maik> Kilroy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelFreeze
[18:23] <Maik> you could have googled that
[18:23] <leftyfb> Kilroy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_(software_engineering)
[18:24] <Kilroy> thank you leftyfb
[18:39] <BlackMage> hmpf pommed doesnt work correctly
[18:41] <BlackMage> when fnmode = 1 , on f1 its print only A when function is used
[18:43] <BlackMage> and when fnmode = 2, the function is executed and its print A
[18:43] <BlackMage> why the letter A is printed?
[18:44] <Maik> BlackMage: do you actually have a Ubuntu support question?
[18:45] <solifugus> My Ubuntu sound stopped working.. even after a reboot..  through browser or games or anything.  The volume from the speaker icon in the top right corner is fully up...  any ideas?
[18:45] <solifugus> This is a system76 computer..
[18:46] <KBar> Which version of Ubuntu? What kind of hardware?
[18:46] <Maik> running Ubuntu? Because Systems76 usually ships with POP OS solifugus
[18:46] <BlackMage> Maik: So should I contact the pommed developers directly about this?
[18:46] <Maik> probably
[18:47] <Maik> BlackMage: your in a Ubuntu support channel, so....
[18:47] <Maik> or ask in #linux
[18:49] <Maik> solifugus: what is it now that's installed, Ubuntu or POP OS?
[18:51] <oerheks> https://support.system76.com/articles/audio/
[18:51] <oerheks> lolz
[18:52] <Maik> unless we know for sure what they are running we shouldn't provide any further support
[18:52] <oerheks> those tips are universal, AFAIL
[18:52] <Maik> if they use Pop OS they should ask them
[18:53] <oerheks> removing ~/.config/pulse often works
[18:53] <Maik> but since they refuse to answer as of yet, they're on their own
[18:54] <KBar> oerheks: maybe move it somewhere else or rename it?
[19:02] <jsbach_> anyone having problems with networking at usb-c type docking station with new thinkpads? The network interface of docking station doesn't show up after resume. Annoying.
[19:02] <ice9> every time I wake up the laptop from suspend, the screen keeps off until it crash and I have to hard reset; here is a journal output https://termbin.com/mlmk
[19:03] <jsbach_> using 5.13.0-30-generic #33~20.04.1-Ubuntu Kernel with the latest UEFI and ECP updates. And the latest displaylink driver
[19:03] <jsbach_> 5.5
[19:04] <ice9> sorry not suspend but unlock the desktop
[19:07] <frost> Hello
[19:08] <frost> so i wanna remove system reserved from windows
[19:08] <frost> as i dont need it since i removed windows
[19:08] <frost> but i dont know how to, and idk how to make a partiton the top one
[19:13] <BlackMage> ohh, hmm
[19:13] <jhutchins> frost: Rather than "system" I think you mean "storage", as in disk space, correct?
[19:15] <frost-core> jhutchins : im tryna delete system reserved from windows
[19:15] <frost-core> since windows broke
[19:15] <frost-core> yay
[19:15] <jhutchins> Algeria!  That's a new oen.
[19:16] <jhutchins> You can use the space for storage as it is, just mount it as an ntfs filesystem.
[19:17] <jhutchins> If you format it as a Linux filesystem it's a little more compatible, but you do risk damaging your working Linux partition if you make a mistake.
[19:17] <Guest75> invite me to #programming
[19:17] <Guest75> please
[19:17] <Maik> Guest75: wrong channel
[19:18] <jhutchins> frost-core: You can theoretically expand an existing partition, but that is more complicated an also risky.
[19:18] <jhutchins> Guest75: You probably need to be a registered user.
[19:18] <Guest75> Maik: there is no wrong channel
[19:18] <Guest75> #programming does not need acc
[19:18] <BlackMage> hmm, LUL, only in QTerminal i have the bug
[19:19] <Maik> Guest75:  you are ASKING in the wrong channel
[19:19] <Guest75> Maik: there is no WRONG channel to ask to join other channel
[19:19] <Maik> Guest75: if you don't have a Ubuntu support question then please move along
[19:20] <Maik> because that's what this channel is about, Ubuntu support
[19:20] <Maik> Guest75: try asking in #libera
[19:23] <goodfella> hi. why i can't see the packet tracer upgrade for version 8.1.1 ?
[19:25] <frost-core> this is what im telling you, so for example, we have /dev/sda1, and /dev/sda2, i wanna make /dev/sda2 the top partition
[19:25] <goodfella> i did apt-get update
[19:26] <frost-core> goodfella : this is ubuntu, a stable distro
[19:27] <frost-core> so you wont get always the latest and greatest
[19:27] <goodfella> i find it hard to belive that debian have newer version packages that ubuntu has
[19:27] <goodfella> my instructor using debian and hes has version 8.1.1
[19:27] <goodfella> but maybe he he manually download it from cisco
[19:27] <Maik> goodfella: which version of ubuntu
[19:27] <frost-core> probably because he uses debian 11
[19:28] <jhutchins> goodfella: Version 8.1.1 of what?
[19:28] <Maik> jhutchins: as he stated: packet tracer
[19:28] <goodfella> packet tracer
[19:28] <jhutchins> frost-core: Turn your computer over.
[19:29] <Maik> goodfella: again... which version of ubuntu
[19:29] <frost-core> jhutchins : why?, i wanna just make the partition the top one
[19:29] <Maik> frost-core: you can't
[19:30] <Maik> frost-core: and again it doesn't seem to be a ubuntu related question
[19:30] <frost-core> but, i just wanna know about how to move a partition
[19:30] <KBar> goodfella: it's a proprietary software that's not even in the repositories?
[19:30] <goodfella> the latest LTS
[19:30] <jhutchins> frost-core: "top" doesn't actually mean anything in this context.  You can probably make it _do_ what you have in mind though.
[19:30] <goodfella> KBar: it came installed by defautl
[19:30] <Maik> goodfella: 20.04 is older and uses older packages than Debian 11
[19:31] <goodfella> ok
[19:31] <KBar> goodfella: ok. What's the name of the package?
[19:31] <goodfella> thanks
[19:31] <Maik> packet tracer does not come installed by default
[19:31] <goodfella> packettracer
[19:31] <frost-core> jhutchins : i wanna make the partition /dev/sda2 to /dev/sda1
[19:31] <goodfella> it is
[19:31] <Maik> it's not on default goodfella
[19:32] <shadow255> frost-core: then you'll need to change physical connections in the hardware
[19:32] <Maik> i ran ubuntu 20.04 before and never saw it being installed
[19:32] <jhutchins> frost-core: The only way I know of doing that is to back the data up to another device and restore it to the other partition.
[19:32] <KBar> goodfella: there is no such package in any of the repositories. you can only download it from here after enrolling to their online courses and finishing it: https://www.netacad.com/courses/packet-tracer
[19:32] <goodfella> 2ok thanks
[19:44] <MarcAndersen> What is the last ubuntu version where there is a cd image at less than 700 mb availavle?
[19:45] <shibboleth> early/mid xenial
[19:46] <MarcAndersen> So there is nothing later than 16.04 as cd?
[19:47] <Intelo> HI,
[19:48] <shibboleth> afaik even initial bionic required a dvd for size. there may be netinst images though. the bare essentials to install from a network repo
[19:49] <Intelo> My OS is bloated. I remember I changed hardware (the whole pc) but used the same sdd that had ubuntu installed in it. I guess xorg and drivers of hardware might have been causing the freezing and crashing and slow speed. What can I do here please?
[19:53] <MarcAndersen> the smallest 16.04 I can find is 1.4g.
[20:03] <jhutchins> Intelo: The first thing would be to find the logs for the suspected components and see if they say anything useful.
[20:04] <Chunkyz> how can I find out what *speed* my ethernet controller is capable of? atm it's 1000 because it's got a 1gbps ethernet cable in. do you think it could hand more? i5-6500T....
[20:04] <jhutchins> Intelo: Then you would try eliminating specific items one at a time.
[20:05] <Intelo> jhutchins were would be logs found?
[20:05] <oerheks> !logs
[20:05] <jhutchins> Intelo: It's usually a good idea to go through the hardware and cables on the motherboard and re-seat all of the connections
[20:05] <oerheks> wrong factoid
[20:06] <oerheks> what does this mean; "My OS is bloated."
[20:06] <jhutchins> !journalctl
[20:06] <Chunkyz> it doesn't say anything about ethernet here: https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/sku/88183/intel-core-i56500t-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-10-ghz/specifications.html
[20:06] <jhutchins> Intelo: dmesg is noisy but has most of the hardware initialization logs.
[20:07] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: ethtool <interface> will show you capabilities and what the current connection is using.
[20:07] <jhutchins> !info ethtool
[20:07] <Chunkyz> jhutchins, current connection yeah, I want to know if it'll do more if I plug in a fast ethernet cable.
[20:07] <Chunkyz> faster*
[20:08] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: Cables are not likely to make a difference unless you have some ragged Cat4 or something.
[20:08] <Chunkyz> idk which I have.
[20:08] <oerheks> 1000 mbit will not go faster, if your adapter and router only supports up to 1000 mbit
[20:08] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: The cable is usually stamped with a label.
[20:08] <Chunkyz> not this one.
[20:09] <Chunkyz> oerheks, yeah that's what I'm asking.
[20:09] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: Ok, how many wires?
[20:09] <Chunkyz> wdym?
[20:10] <Chunkyz> I think this is the fastest: 1000baseT/Full
[20:10] <jhutchins> Look at the clear connector and count the wires.  It's most likely 8, 4 pairs.  That's Cat5 or Cat6.
[20:10] <oerheks> kick off other users to get full internet speed :-D
[20:10] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: That's about as fast as you'll get on consumer grade gear these days.
[20:11] <jhutchins> 10G is still expensive.
[20:11] <ice9> every time I unlock the screen of the laptop, the screen keeps off until the system freeze and I have to hard reset; here is a journal output from previous boot: https://termbin.com/mlmk
[20:11] <Intelo> jhutchins did the hardware thing though
[20:12] <Chunkyz> it's got 4 wires on the connector. :-)
[20:12] <Intelo> jhutchins https://termbin.com/mld4z
[20:12] <Chunkyz> thanks, TIL. now I know what to look out for.
[20:13] <jhutchins> Intelo: See that joiurnalctl factoid ubottu posted, look in /var/log/, try dmesg | less (as root, so sudo).
[20:13] <Chunkyz> last question, if my ISP says my speed is 1gbps, and my ethenet controller/cable is 1gbps... what sort of download speed should I expect? using Ubuntu 21.10
[20:14] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: It depends on hardware.  Spinning disks won't usually do 1G, but a system with an SSD should get 800-900 Mb/Sec.
[20:14] <oerheks> 1 gbps is raw, with overhead..
[20:14] <oerheks> so, your actual speed is something less than that
[20:14] <jhutchins> Google will hit 900+.
[20:15] <Chunkyz> using an SSD.
[20:15] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: speedtest-cli
[20:15] <oerheks> ssd has nothing to do with that
[20:15] <Chunkyz> thanks, I'm getting more or less expected speed then. :-)
[20:16] <Chunkyz> jhutchins, that's not very accurate though. thanks though. :-)
[20:16] <jhutchins> oerheks: I can demonstrate a difference in speedtest results for an SSD vs. a spinning rust drive, about 300Mb/Sec.
[20:17] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: In my experience the speedtest cli results are pretty close to real world downloads.
[20:17] <oerheks> jhutchins, that is new to me, what does storage have to do with internet speed?
[20:18] <jhutchins> oerheks: Assuming that the test is passing more data than the RAM cache can hold, it apparently causes a lag when writing to the disk.
[20:18] <Chunkyz> jhutchins, yeah it's always been bad here.
[20:18] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: Who's your provider?
[20:19] <Chunkyz> virgin media, UK.
[20:19] <jhutchins> If they're like Google, they won't guarantee minimum performance.
[20:19] <Chunkyz> they do, they say 500mbps is the minimum I should get. I get around 900mbps give or take.
[20:20] <Chunkyz> I know it's correct now :-)
[20:20] <jhutchins> oerheks: At 1G speeds, older hardware can be a factor.
[20:20] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: That's really very good performance in the real world.
[20:20] <oerheks> meh, doubtfull that a ssd infuences speed of a gigabit adapter speed
[20:21] <jhutchins> Chunkyz: At that speed, your sources will be the limiting factor (ie. Ubuntu mirror servers).
[20:21] <jhutchins> oerheks: Doubt all you want, real world test says otherwise.
[20:22] <jhutchins> People won't believe me when I say I can demonstrate LVM overhead loads either.
[20:29] <cbreak> speedtest as in network speed test?
[20:30] <cbreak> that obviously is not influenced by your storage, since the data downloaded for that wouldn't be stored persistently in the first place
[20:34] <tripleb> how do I make detailed list view be the default (instead of tiny icons) in this directory program. -- 20.08 I am using PCManFM 1.3.1 because "long ago right here in #ubuntu" I followed and did something that smashed the regular one and no one could/would tell me how to restore it.
[20:34] <tripleb> 20.04
[20:36] <tomreyn> we're eman, aren't we?
[20:36] <tomreyn> mean also
[20:36] <jhutchins> cbreak: Perhaps theoretically, but I did a side-by-side comparison and saw the difference.  Test, swap drives, test.
[20:37] <tripleb> no my point was that I am not using a wierd program on purpose and would love to put the regular one back but I dont know how to do that tomreyn
[20:37]  * tripleb treats here as a jokfree place, goes to #ubuntu-offtopic to joke around.
[20:38] <tripleb> to all the helpers here Respect.
[20:38] <tomreyn> tripleb: have you tried running nautilus from a terminal window to see whether it reports any errors? have you tried resetting nautilus' configuration in gesettings or in ~/.config?
[20:38] <tripleb> mean emen mnea amen
[20:40] <tripleb> I keep explaining, I dont have nautilus afaik. I will try but I dontknow how to 1. run nautilus from a terminal window or 1. set a config.. I dont know gesetwty ngs or ~/.config  AND would love to learn how to do these things. I keep meaning to "learn bash" but get lost in the pond.
[20:41] <jhutchins> cbreak: Do you have the ability to test this with a 1G or better network and equivalent drives?  A high perforamnce rust drive with good caching might not show it.
[20:41] <tomreyn> nautilus, later called '(gnome) files', would be gnomes default file manager
[20:41] <tripleb> now I am looking at lshw because I am trying to figure out what this little thing is that fits in the usb slot which is why I am running a directory program. Then the program says nada about anything in a slot. tomreyn
[20:41] <jhutchins> tripleb: lsusb
[20:42] <jhutchins> tripleb: Also dmesg while you connect/disconnect it.
[20:43] <jhutchins> tripleb: dmesg -w
[20:44] <cbreak> jhutchins: you want to compare how a hard disk and an ssd compare when they're not being used?
[20:45] <Intelo> jhutchins  sudo cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log  https://termbin.com/oebv
[20:45] <Intelo> sudo cat /var/log/syslog   https://termbin.com/v1zd
[20:45] <Intelo> sudo cat /var/log/boot.log  https://termbin.com/v41o
[20:45] <Intelo> sudo dmesg  https://termbin.com/k7fz
[20:46] <tripleb> jhutchins, ah yes lsusb ... a year or so gap and I forget so much. I ened to remember the meaning and diff of > and | in a bash line. (Just used the wrong one and, oops no file exists.)
[20:47] <oerheks> from dmesg; you use brave browser, if you kill it, and restart, are you issues gone? i told you in #linux yesterday some browsers on some pages give trouble... mostly because of the multiple tabs open
[20:48] <oerheks>  0.642115] [drm] BIOS signature incorrect 0 0
[20:48] <oerheks>  30.216904] ccp 0000:08:00.2: psp: unable to access the device: you might be running a broken BIOS.
[20:48] <oerheks> check for bios update, or do a reset?
[20:50] <oerheks> BIOS 1407 04/01/2020 looks kinda old
[20:51] <ice9> is there any way to install chromium from deb, not snap?
[20:51] <Maik> ice9: no
[20:52] <Maik> and why chromium? it a borked browser anyway since the ripped out the sync stuff and other features
[20:54] <tomreyn> works well for me
[20:55] <oerheks> Intelo, https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/TUF-Gaming/TUF-GAMING-X570-PLUS/HelpDesk_BIOS/
[20:55] <oerheks> time to update, i remember they said this in #linux too
[20:56] <tomreyn> Intelo: you suspended, then returned from suspend. if the system only got slow after return from suspend, then that's another good reason to upgrade bios
[20:57] <tomreyn> there's also a quirk being applied to your usb root hub, this could also hint on reduced performance - for usb devices
[20:59] <lavaball> how can i add user something actions in the file manager? i can't find a menu or anything. usually it shows up when i press alt. well, elsewhere it does at least.
[21:00] <oerheks> !info nautilus-scripts-manager
[21:00] <tripleb> doing lsusb does nothing much. Even my camera is listed as  a root hub.
[21:00] <oerheks> lavaball, install nautilus, more detailes software center, lots of nautilus extentions
[21:01] <lavaball> meh. i'm not amused.
[21:01] <lavaball> thank you though.
[21:01] <Intelo> oerheks despite brave, the system is still bloated
[21:02] <Intelo> oerheks broken bios.. i wonder
[21:02] <oerheks> you wonder?
[21:02] <oerheks> oh
[21:03] <tripleb> jhutchins, now reading re kernel ring buffer, re dmesg - - learning. thanks
[21:03] <lavaball> scripts? i just want to add an extra button so i can extract files, which only shows up when i click on an extractable file ...
[21:04] <oerheks>  which only shows up when i click on an extractable file ... that is by design
[21:05] <lavaball> i don't even know wherer to look up the syntax.
[21:05] <lavaball> option doesn't show up for winmail.dat file. i need to run tnef on it.
[21:05] <jhutchins> Intelo: Default installs area meant to support a broad range of users and use cases.  If your objective is a minimal system, start with a minimal install and proceed to review every installed package for manual removal.
[21:06] <jhutchins> Intelo: Don't let someone else choose your packages and then complain about their choices.
[21:06] <oerheks> jhutchins, we solved his issue; bios update
[21:06] <Intelo> oerheks the top bios update is beta. so not doing it. doing the second last version. of 2021. Question: if electricity goes off during update, will I loos anything?
[21:07] <oerheks> Intelo,  maybe
[21:07] <jhutchins> oerheks: I was referencing his complaint of "bloat".
[21:07] <Intelo> tomreyn despite suspend, the system is bloated anyway. but good point
[21:07] <oerheks> oh, people that use bloat i take not serious
[21:07] <Intelo> oerheks yes browsers are my main daily drivers but system is bloated anyway
[21:07] <Intelo> tomreyn quirk?
[21:08] <tomreyn> Intelo: yes
[21:08] <oerheks> asus always puts the latest ryzen in 'beta' to avoid lawsuits
[21:09] <Intelo> jhutchins ok, I want to start reviewing from drivers, xorg reconfigure etc. as said in message I suspect this:
[21:09] <Intelo> My OS is bloated. I remember I changed hardware (the whole pc) but used the same sdd that had ubuntu installed in it. I guess xorg and drivers of hardware might have been causing the freezing and crashing and slow speed. What can I do here please?
[21:09] <cbreak> if your OS is bloated, use the server installer image, not the desktop
[21:09] <cbreak> you can install those without X or any other such junk
[21:09] <oerheks> Intelo, you got your fix, so repeating your issue is invalid
[21:10] <Intelo> cbreak but ultimately I would need X. so server + X or desktop LTS is same. no?
[21:10] <cbreak> there are only two solutions to having a bloated system: remove stuff, or don't add it in the first place
[21:10] <cbreak> Intelo: no
[21:10] <Intelo> oerheks repeating for  jhutchins to get context
[21:11] <cbreak> if you think X is bloated, then you don't need it
[21:11] <cbreak> if you want X, then X is not bloat, but useful
[21:11] <Intelo> oerheks . Question: if electricity goes off during update, will I loos anything?
[21:11] <Intelo> cbreak I think 'my' x is bloated :)
[21:11] <cbreak> Ubuntu uses precompiled binaries.
[21:11] <cbreak> yours is the same as everyone elses
[21:11] <Intelo> 'x' are bloated anyway. (get it?:)   )
[21:12] <Intelo> cbreak no. to give you context, here is what I believe:
[21:12] <cbreak> also: don't lose power during bios updates. Sometimes there are ways to recover from such an incident, but sometimes there aren't.
[21:12] <Intelo> My OS is bloated. I remember I changed hardware (the whole pc) but used the same sdd that had ubuntu installed in it. I guess xorg and drivers of hardware might have been causing the freezing and crashing and slow speed.
[21:12] <cbreak> that has nothing to do with bloat.
[21:12] <Intelo> cbreak I have to think. I have no UPS
[21:13] <jhutchins> Intelo: If you think your system is bloated (due to packages YOU installed), review each installed package and the reason it's installed, and remove it if it doesn't meet your needs.
[21:13] <jhutchins> Intelo: Complaining here does nothing constructive.
[21:13] <Intelo> cbreak so gui / haardware drivers won't influence
[21:13] <Intelo> jhutchins ok, I will remove unwanted ones.
[21:13] <cbreak> that's just having possibly mismatched / outdated drivers
[21:13] <Intelo> but iirce, there were some xorg issues too. so can I just reconfigure/ reinstall xorg? I have xfce and awesomewm
[21:14] <oerheks> lolz @ Intelo .. yes that would help; ignore the bios update answer
[21:14] <Intelo> jhutchins no one is complaining. Its how people perceive it. discussion vs complain
[21:14] <Intelo> oerheks am.. ok I though bios was important?
[21:14] <oerheks> Intelo, or ask in the other channel
[21:15] <Intelo> oerheks I am good with answers here
[21:15] <Intelo> oerheks how to reinstall/ reconfigure x
[21:15] <Intelo> if that would be help ful l too
[21:16] <Intelo> I thought using ssd of another system with installed ubuntu (in different hardware) was the biggest catastrophy
[21:17] <Intelo> and I don't have any clue how to get out of it without reinstalling the whole OS
[21:17] <Intelo> Was I feeling correct?
[21:17] <Intelo> or it just doesn't matter?
[21:18] <oerheks> not your ubuntu, but your bios is bloated.
[21:22] <Intelo> ok. installing bios. I hope I don't loose the motherboard by power outage
[21:22] <Intelo> oerheks ^
[21:30] <oerheks> that, is beyond our responsibility
[21:33] <Intelo> oerheks of course it is beyond.
[21:33] <oerheks> for some years now; if a bios update borks, one can always reverse
[21:33] <oerheks> there is space for 2 or more updates
[21:37] <Intelo> oerheks tomaw jhutchins cbreak FYI just sharing I did a 50 tab of youtube movies running at same time on  google chrome and then on brave test separately after that. On my linux (same hardware), it got frozen. On freebsd (same hardware but on a mere  usb 2), it wen okaish (no froze but a bit slow), gradually got ok.
[21:38] <tomreyn> i'm glad you didn't hilight me on that
[21:40] <Intelo> tomreyn lol ok
[21:40] <Intelo> I just noticed that brave on linux catched up. didn't crashed
[21:41] <Intelo> so freebsd and linux got same performance of chromium and brave respectively os these os
[21:41] <Intelo> tomaw nevermind
[21:41] <Guest57> Hi, after a recent update playing dvds ripped to file from vlc no longer works. This is the terminal output when I try: https://termbin.com/ojbh
[21:42] <Guest57> vlc just crashes after the output shown there
[21:42] <tomreyn> Guest57: which ubuntu version are you running, which vlc version is installed?
[21:43] <tomreyn> lsb_release -ds && apt list --installed vlc
[21:43] <Guest57> tomreyn, Ubuntu 20.04, and vlc <IP_ADDRESS>
[21:44] <Guest57> I tried purge removing vlc and reinstalling both through apt and now from snap
[21:45] <tomreyn> Guest57: try purging mesa-va-drivers
[21:46] <Guest57> will do, tomreyn
[21:46] <tomreyn> Guest57: you may need to restart X afterwards
[21:49] <Guest57> no luck tomreyn
[21:51] <cthulchu> hey hey folks! gonna install Ubuntu on my old laptop. Need it for devops cuz devops on windows is... terrible. So! I
[21:51] <tomreyn> Guest57: do you get a prompt to submit a crash report?
[21:51] <liveacoustic> I'm sorry to ask here but is my cloak working?
[21:51] <Guest57> I have been, would you like to see one?
[21:51] <cthulchu> I'm already using Ubuntu with Gnome on an older laptop (mostly to host bots and watch movies). And I like Gnome, but it's too simple
[21:51] <tomreyn> liveacoustic: it is, but #libera and related channels would be a better place to ask
[21:51] <cthulchu> I tried KDE, but it seems way overengineered.
[21:52] <cthulchu> what UI would you suggest for me to try
[21:53] <tomreyn> Guest57: yes, a full, submitted, and analyzed one. you may need to share your machine-id for that,t hough
[21:54] <tomreyn> Guest57: you said you have vlc package version  <IP_ADDRESS>? 20.04 should have <IP_ADDRESS>-1 though. is the system up to date?
[21:56] <oerheks> snaps give 3.0.16 or 4.0 https://snapcraft.io/vlc
[21:56] <Guest57> tomreyn, sorry, it is indeed <IP_ADDRESS>-1 checking with apt --installed like you said before
[21:57] <cthulchu> gonna try Chrome OS. Looks like it's Gentoo-based, and it's unix-based just like Ubuntu, so should be comfy.
[21:57] <oerheks> cthulchu, normally devops want to keep it simple.
[21:57] <Guest57> and having switched back to the apt version
[21:57] <cthulchu> oerheks, yeah, great point
[21:57] <oerheks> !flavors
[21:58] <oerheks> there is choise ...
[22:09] <Guest57> tomreyn, sorry I was busy for a moment, I have files in /var/crash ending in .crash, .upload, and .uploaded. You want one of each of these?
[22:10] <tomreyn> Guest57: if you don't mind, just send me the contents of /etc/machine-id in a private message.
[22:11] <oerheks> xdg-open https://errors.ubuntu.com/user/$(sudo cat /var/lib/whoopsie/whoopsie-id)
[22:11] <oerheks> this line gives your online crash reports
[22:11] <tomreyn> oh right not machine-id, oops
[22:11] <oerheks> tomreyn, +1, in PM, for safety
[22:12] <oerheks> nice blog, popey
[22:12] <oerheks> https://popey.com/blog/2021/03/finding-ubuntu-crash-reports/
[22:12] <tomreyn> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tomreyn/scripts/master/whoopsie_reports but it does pretty much what oerheks just wrote
[22:13] <Guest57> well I can't send messages with creating an account with nickserv
[22:13] <Guest57> at least not to you, tomreyn =P
[22:13] <oerheks> boot ubuntu :-D https://twitter.com/popey/status/1494987443686281222
[22:14] <oerheks> creating an account is not expensive
[22:14] <Guest57> indeed. I will set things up
[22:14] <tomreyn> Guest57: just do what oerheks said,    xdg-open https://errors.ubuntu.com/user/$(sudo cat /var/lib/whoopsie/whoopsie-id)    then look for the latest matching report, and copy the url of that here
[22:15] <tomreyn> that should not be much of a privacy issue
[22:16] <Guest57> Okay, it may take a moment as I am chatting on one machine, working on another with no ssh set up between
[22:19] <Guest57> I seem to be getting 404? I will just give you a termbin of the whoopsie-id if that will help. I am not super concerned about the privacy of this machine
[22:20] <Guest57> https://termbin.com/89tz
[22:21] <tomreyn> i don't see a 404, but a message saying "No errors have been reported from this system"
[22:22] <oerheks> i see 3 reports, but have no access https://errors.ubuntu.com/user/1d39abc7380e4f57794f91a70437233abeade5786f3298d87ed8cc652c8e71c028f98ce1e1e7fe55d09cceb27fa715155c82fcac874ed2c91b08bc5f426598c4
[22:22] <Guest57> that is odd... apparently some were reported before ( I am not the one who uses this machine ). I did clear the /var/crash directory since I kept getting prompts about system problems
[22:22] <tomreyn> oh i got the url wrong
[22:23] <Guest57> ah good
[22:23] <Guest57> but I generated and reported another since clearing if you end up needing that information for the most recent report
[22:24] <tomreyn> it will take some time to be processed ont he server
[22:28] <tomreyn> there are 44 reports on this so far. which is very, very little
[22:29] <oerheks> i would suggest install the snap version
[22:29] <Guest57> oerheks, I already tried that with the same result
[22:29] <tomreyn> Guest57: have you tried deleting ~/.config/vlc/
[22:30] <oerheks> on what videocard?
[22:30] <oerheks> and have you installed HWE kernel?
[22:30] <tomreyn> GA kernel
[22:31] <Guest57> tried moving .config/vlc, same result
[22:31] <Guest57> I can try a different kernel
[22:31] <tomreyn> this seems to be limited to systems with both nouveau and radeon drivers active
[22:31] <Guest57> video card according to lshw is a radeon HD 3450
[22:32] <Guest57> hard to imagine nouveau would be active, it has never had an nvidia card in it
[22:32] <Guest57> doesn't show up in lsmod
[22:32] <oerheks> uh oh
[22:32] <oerheks> hd 34xx is below specs of openraden
[22:32] <oerheks> minimum 4xxxx
[22:33] <oerheks> c/openradeon
[22:33] <tomreyn> Guest57: oh that's not your report i was seeing nouveau active in, right
[22:33] <Guest57> lol. Hmm. New issue introduced by new drivers in the update probably, then? And I am SOL because I have an old card?
[22:33] <tomreyn> r600 should be fine still, i don'T see why not
[22:33] <oerheks> yes. i am afraid you should look for a higher card.
[22:34] <tomreyn> why is this?
[22:35] <tomreyn> radeon(4) lists "RV620/RV635 Radeon HD 3410/3430/3450/3470/3650/3670" as supported, at least on my 18.04 system here
[22:36] <oerheks> Not sure why, i ran ito this issue more than once..
[22:36] <tomreyn> https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/focal/en/man4/radeon.4.html also
[22:37] <oerheks> currently i do RV710
[22:37] <Guest57> Hmm. I mean vlc seems to be complaining about audio issues, not video though. Still think that's what is causing this?
[22:37] <Guest57> Replacing the card isn't a problem if that is the issue, though
[22:40] <cthulchu> oooh, Gnome is no longer the default?
[22:40] <cthulchu> now it's mate!
[22:40] <cthulchu> Gonna try it out :)
[22:40] <oerheks> ubuntu-desktop is gnome
[22:40] <leftyfb> cthulchu: only if you download Ubuntu Mate
[22:40] <Guest57> well, I may drop back in later oerheks, tomreyn. I think I need to leave this bug squashing for a later time. My actual nick is Minus_One, I just am not at my desktop where my SASL password is stored, so I may come back with that name
[22:40] <Guest57> thanks for looking at my issue
[22:40] <oerheks> :-)
[22:45] <tomreyn> Guest57: so it's really gallium drivers for nouveau where vlc is crashing. my guess is it's using this code for VA API acceleration, though your three submitted crashes don't mention VA. the first line of the stack trace is: #0  0x<redacted> in PUSH_DATA (push=<redacted>, data=<optimized out>) at ../src/gallium/drivers/nouveau/nouveau_winsys.h:38
[22:45] <tomreyn> oh i'm too slow
[22:53] <tomreyn> if Guest57 returns and can run vlc without parameters fine, they should go to menu tools -> input / codecs -> hardware-accelerated decoding and remember what it is set to, then set it to "disable" (first) or (later) one of the other values and see whether that helps. need to restart vlc after each change.
[22:54] <oerheks> ok
[23:02] <cthulchu> btw, Google Flex OS doesn't work :)
[23:03] <oerheks> totally offtopic here
[23:03] <Maik> cthulchu: ubuntu still uses gnome as default desktop
[23:03] <cthulchu> yeah, I saw
[23:03] <cthulchu> gonna try Mate though
[23:03] <Maik> not sure where you get the nonsense from it was MATE as default
[23:04] <cthulchu> in the description of the Mate distro
[23:04] <cthulchu> it implies that Mate is the successor
[23:05] <oerheks> "mate distro' .. it is just a desktop, not a distro
[23:05] <cthulchu> I don't really care
[23:05] <Maik> cthulchu: get your facts straight
[23:05] <cthulchu> there: https://ubuntu.com/download/flavours
[23:06] <cthulchu> Ubuntu MATE is the continuation of the GNOME 2 desktop which was Ubuntu’s default desktop until October 2010.
[23:06] <cthulchu> get your facts straight, honestly
[23:06] <cthulchu> don't confuse people with conflicting messaging
[23:06] <oerheks> ...
[23:11] <Maik> cthulchu: sigh
[23:12] <Maik> not Ubuntu MATE but MATE itself is a continuation of the GNOME 2 desktop
[23:13] <cthulchu> omg
[23:13] <Maik> Ubuntu MATE IS the distro, MATE IS the desktop
[23:13] <Maik> cthulchu: omg to you too
[23:13] <cthulchu> sincerely
[23:13] <cthulchu> I don't care
[23:13] <Maik> then move on
[23:13] <cthulchu> I did
[23:13] <Maik> you need help with Ubuntu?
[23:13] <cthulchu> no
[23:13] <Maik> if not move it to offtopic then
[23:14] <cthulchu> dude, stop it. I have nothing to move
[23:14] <Maik> then stop filling the support channel with your cruft
[23:14] <cthulchu> I don't know what you're talking about
[23:15] <Maik> and ignore it is then
[23:15] <tomreyn> can you *two* please drop it. just think fo something else, both of you. thanks.
[23:25] <intelo> oerheks I upgraded bios
[23:25] <intelo> to latest non beta version
[23:26] <oerheks> oke :-)
[23:29] <intelo> btw, I read that asus has ASUS CrashFree BIOS 3
[23:29] <intelo> that means my bios can't get crashed
[23:29] <intelo> ?
[23:29] <oerheks> yes, you can reverse a borked update
[23:29] <intelo> I mean, is it a norm in modern MBs
[23:29] <intelo> oh ok
[23:29] <intelo> great!
[23:29] <oerheks> it has space for more than one update
[23:29] <intelo> whats the next step do you advise to make the system rock solid as possible oerheks ?
[23:30] <oerheks> test it now?
[23:30] <intelo> oerheks btw, I updated via internet the first time. It didn't do the latest. then I did via usb
[23:30] <oerheks> not sure you need any tweaks with ryzen
[23:30] <intelo> oerheks same test? youtube? 50 tabs?
[23:30] <intelo> tweeks? just that my ram showed 2600MHz and I did it 3200 manually in bios
[23:30] <intelo> nothing else
[23:30] <intelo> I guess.
[23:31] <cbreak> that sounds dumb.
[23:31] <intelo> cbreak the bios part?
[23:31] <intelo> don't know..
[23:31] <cbreak> overclocking is one if the many things you shouldn't do when you want stability
[23:31] <cbreak> because it'll for sure not help with that at all
[23:31] <intelo> My ram is 3200
[23:32] <cbreak> if you want stability, then you get proper ram
[23:32] <cbreak> not those shitty non-ecc gamer modules
[23:33] <intelo> https://youtu.be/q2P16lLq1yE?t=107
[23:33] <intelo> cbreak my ram "is" 3200 actually
[23:33] <oerheks> indeed, not all mobo's overclocking works well with linux
[23:34] <cbreak> intelo: it claims it
[23:34] <intelo> its not overclock. the speed normal is 32k
[23:34] <cbreak> but it's still overclocking
[23:34] <cbreak> and it's still likely without ECC
[23:35] <intelo> isn't this not really 3200MHz? Crucial Ballistix BL8G32C16U4B 8GB 3200MHz
[23:35] <intelo> I have slighly different one but same thing
[23:35] <cbreak> there's a reason normal memory profiles don't go to that frequency: Because it's out of spec
[23:36] <cbreak> the manufacturers can claim that frequency works, and maybe they even tested it for those modules
[23:36] <intelo> so this is overclockign? not real speed?
[23:36] <cbreak> obviously it's overclocking
[23:36] <intelo> right.
[23:36] <cbreak> but that doesn't mean that it will work in all systems
[23:36] <intelo> what is the normal speed?
[23:36] <cbreak> because the overclocked frequency has to work along all the involved hardware
[23:36] <intelo> so should I keep it 2600 in bios or 3200?
[23:36] <cbreak> the ram, the memory controller, the wires / traces along the path, ...
[23:37] <cbreak> your choice. Do you care about stability or ram frequency?
[23:37] <cbreak> do you have stability problems?
[23:37] <intelo> stability
[23:37] <cbreak> like random crashes or freezes?
[23:37] <intelo> yes I have problems
[23:38] <intelo> every week
[23:38] <cbreak> so... disable that stuff
[23:38] <cbreak> even if only to see if that improves your issues.
[23:38] <intelo> ok, I should put it on "auto" option? that results in 2600MHz
[23:38] <intelo> ok.
[23:38] <intelo> oerheks cbreak coming to software part. How can I further optimize? where to start?
[23:41] <intelo> oerheks after bios, i feel  change. minor but I do
[23:41] <intelo> a good one
[23:42] <oerheks> sure there are blogs and pages with tweaks
[23:43] <jhutchins> intelo: Optimize for what?
[23:47] <intelo> jhutchins speed and stablility
[23:47] <intelo> jhutchins surely it has to do with UI and drivers.
[23:47] <intelo> jhutchins  I do  not see any thing else (configs included in above 2 things)
[23:49] <intelo> jhutchins I am rebooting if there is nothign specific
[23:49] <intelo> you want to tell
[23:50] <intelo> ok thank you. will be back.