[02:36] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:54] <ducasse> good morning
[07:59] <marcoagpinto> heya
[21:09] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue711 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue711 :D


[19:01] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:34] <ajmitch> morning
[19:34] <hads> morning
[19:49] <ajmitch> so 13.10 is apparantly out now
[19:51] <ibeardslee> it seems that way .. I didn't even get to use the RC.
[19:53] <mwhudson> i even forgot to camp in #u-r-p yesterday
[19:54]  * ajmitch hasn't upgraded to raring yet, let alone a new release
[20:19] <olly_> morning
[20:28] <hads> Oh, it's the 10th month.
[23:12] <thumper> morning


[01:11] <RAOF> > <@grayson-g:matrix.org> Frame CrashReporter update/question: I'm currently trying to set a check if a log file exists. I've got `inotify` implemented so I can see when a file is created. I need this to run on a thread. I was told that I could use `register_fd_handler()` to watch for events from `inotify` (if I'm... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/6dd7b8acf1757ceaaa0448e210d207acf68d8f70)
[01:13] <RAOF> I mean, you can also just spin up a thread and do blocking calls if you want, but I think you've got easy access to something that'll run your callback when a fd becomes readable.
[01:13] <grayson-g[m]> RAOF: Awesome! I’ll take a look at this in the morning
[07:10] <alan_g[m]> The mirserver headers are not public: so Server::the_main_loop isn't available
[07:29] <RAOF> Aha! That's what I was missing.
[07:49] <alan_g[m]> There is no rule against more functors, but that would be an addition to MirAL for the next Mir release
[08:48] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** AlanGriffiths opened [pull request #79](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/pull/79): Don't try to use evdi
[08:48] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server-
[08:48] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- > Mir platform detection doesn't correctly detect that evdi won't work: Just say "no"
[08:49] <sespiros> Hello everyone, I am doing security updates for the wpewebkit package we have in the Ubuntu archive and I am having some trouble testing it. I install cog, libwpebackend-fdo-1.0-1, libwpe and wpewebkit and try to simply run cog but it segfaults. saviq mentioned that the the team your team is using the snap (wpe-webkit-mir-kiosk), but I didn't have much luck running cog from the snap either, that seems to run but I get no window (running on
[08:49] <sespiros> Wayland). I would be super grateful if anyone can give me pointers on how to properly configure and run it.
[08:49] <sespiros> s/the the team//
[08:52] <alan_g[m]> Welcome sespiros, this happens to be an example snap we use a lot for demos.
[08:52] <alan_g[m]> https://mir-server.io/docs/howto-run-your-iot-gui-on-your-desktop
[08:53] <alan_g[m]> We don't maintain the snap though, nor know much about what's in it
[08:56] <alan_g[m]> The most I've ever done is fork the snap recipe and rebuild to pick up current content
[09:18] <alan_g[m]> sespiros I can confirm the snap doesn't run against 22.04's Mutter: `interface 'xdg_toplevel' has no event 2` seems to be the problem. (Which probably has to do with mismatched expectations of how xdg-shell is implemented)
[09:24] <sespiros> Thanks alan_g I will check the guide too. hmm I will try running it in focal maybe. Well the snap is not my target, it seems from the repo that they source the libraries directly from upstream and not the Ubuntu archive but I was hoping to use the snap to get insights on how to run the Ubuntu archive versions. It may well be the case that the different libraries that are required for it to work (the ones we have in the archive), do not
[09:24] <sespiros> actually work together and probably nobody has tested those ever. FYI from a security point of view both the ones in the Ubuntu archive but also the ones that the snap sources are out of date and contain several open security vulnerabilities.
[09:26] <sespiros> And just for context, webkit in general receives limited support from the Canonical security team but our attention was brought to this by the community; the same person who opened https://gitlab.com/glancr/wpe-webkit-snap/-/merge_requests/11
[09:33] <alan_g[m]> That's less than ideal, but I'm not sure there's anything more I can do. The snap maintainer is "tobias" on the snapcraft forums, but he has limited time to do anything with it. (As you've probably seen by the lack of action on the MR)
[13:52] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths closed [pull request #2435](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2435): Miroil sync
[15:42] <grayson-g[m]> alan_g: How would you feel about merging Frame's wallpaper and the CrashReporter into a single internal client? (called `InternalClient` or `StartupClient` or something)
[15:42] <grayson-g[m]> Behavior would be:
[15:42] <grayson-g[m]> 1) Upon launch, render the gradient wallpaper as before
[15:42] <grayson-g[m]> 2) If a crash log is detected, swap the wallpaper to the error background color and display the log text
[15:42] <grayson-g[m]>  * alan_g: How would you feel about merging Frame's wallpaper and the CrashReporter into a single internal client? (called `InternalClient` or `StartupClient` or something)... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/94ef99e354ed81c3cb28e72a1c5512cd67a4df6a)
 "alan_g: How would you feel about..." <- Behavior would be:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/b2f884a6574eecded16478f30a6add97c2ba67b9)
[17:11] <sophie-w> Is it possible to add `CTEST_OUTPUT_ON_FAILURE=1` or something like that to CI so I can see the output when cmake tests fail? Currently it seems nothing is shown except that the test failed (for example, here
[17:11] <sophie-w> https://pipelines.actions.githubusercontent.com/serviceHosts/c970ea87-beb6-485e-bd4a-f9b0c1bb1dd9/_apis/pipelines/1/runs/18902/signedlogcontent/13?urlExpires=2022-07-29T16%3A47%3A47.5226506Z&urlSigningMethod=HMACV1&urlSignature=mMbLAqXa%2BP3q%2FekGx9CgiQXASZ6pxRE4VOpXZ9I62SM%3D and search symbols-up-to-date)
[17:14] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2518](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2518): Add tools/scan_symbols.py script


[04:28] <xu-help60w> Hi guys! installed xUbuntu! All the time wi-fi falls off. Help me fix please
[04:43] <xu-help60w> Hi guys! installed xUbuntu! All the time wi-fi falls off. Help me fix please
[04:44] <xu-help60w> Hi guys! installed xUbuntu! All the time wi-fi falls off. Help me fix please
[05:10] <xu-help60w> Hi guys! installed xUbuntu! All the time wi-fi falls off. Help me fix please
[05:55] <xu-help60w> Sorry. Contacting the address?
[16:40] <abckb> Hi I am on Xubuntu 20.04 . My laptop hibernates fine when not many apps are open, but fails (fan keeps spinning) when firefox with a few tabs are open. RAM size = 8GB, Swap partition size = 12GB. Please help!
[16:57] <tomreyn> abckb: is this a single swap partition? if not, what size is the largest? is it actually a swap partition or a file?
[16:58] <abckb> Hi tomreyn. Yes this is the only swap. And it is an actual swap partition, not a file.
[16:59] <tomreyn> abckb: you should boot with something along the lines of...
[16:59] <tomreyn> !bootlog
[16:59] <tomreyn> that way you should get to see some output on screen shile the system is preparing to enter hibernation
[17:00] <tomreyn> maybe there's a problem occurring after logging has been halted
[17:01] <tomreyn> also inspect the logs though,  journalctl -b -1   for the last but one boot. records starting with "PM:" indicate power management state changes
[17:01] <abckb> Okay. I have the journalctl output of the time when it tried to hibernate but failed. Would that help?
[17:01] <tomreyn> maybe, depends on whether the problem occurs before or after it stopped logging
[17:02] <tomreyn> but it surely doesn't hurt to look at it.
[17:02] <tomreyn> a bios update often helps with power management issues, too
[17:04] <abckb> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xRyB8Mnxbp/
[17:05] <abckb> I updated BIOS to latest v.1.8 (from v1.5) just a few days ago.
[17:05] <tomreyn> i assume "disable-unwanted-wakeup.sh" is yours?
[17:06] <abckb> Yes
[17:06] <abckb> Earlier it was waking up and discharging battery very fast even after successful hibernation
[17:07] <tomreyn> it's good to point out custmizations you made when you're asking about functionality not working as expected
[17:07] <tomreyn> maybe this would help you:
[17:07] <tomreyn> !acpi_osi
[17:08] <tomreyn> i can't tell from the log what's going wrong
[17:09] <abckb> Okay
[17:09] <abckb> I shall see the diff in logs when hibernation succeeds and fails
[17:13] <abckb> Thanks a lot tomreyn,  I am gonna try your ideas
[17:14] <tomreyn> you're welcome
[17:46] <abckb> Hi tomreyn I came back to say thanks again. Your ACPI windows thingy seems to be working fine so far. Hibernated and woke up a few times with heavy apps open. Worked everytime! Thanks a lot.
[18:03] <tomreyn> abckb: that's nice, you're welcome. TJ came up with this, though, i just learnt from him. ;-)
[18:10] <abckb> you people are heroes :)


[05:20] <MasterOfWin7> Hello
[05:20] <Maxwell> Hello
[05:21] <Maxwell> how can i join ubuntu testing


[00:39] <slangasek> jbicha: did you see my follow-up question to you in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1715030/comments/6 ?
[01:08] <jbicha> slangasek: I think Chris already answered that for mozplugger. I believe mozplugger is a plugin and Flash is the only plugin allowed in Firefox now
[01:10] <jbicha> I think it's broken in Debian now too
[01:11] <jbicha> maybe it does something in Epiphany…
[02:29] <tsimonq2> Can someone please remove kdeplasma-addons from zesty-proposed? I accidentally messed up the upload.
[02:29] <tsimonq2> I think acheronuk said something on the weekend, idk.
[02:30] <tsimonq2> More details are on bug 1715219, I'll upload a fixed version very shortly after it's removed.
[03:07] <slangasek> jbicha: ah, I suppose it does count as a plugin, doesn't it - thanks for pointing out the obvious, I'll remove + blacklist now
[03:08] <slangasek> jbicha: any chance you want to file a bug on it in Debian, then?
[03:10] <slangasek> tsimonq2: why does it need removed?  you can just mark the SRU bug verification-failed, and upload the fixed package at earliest opportunity
[03:11] <tsimonq2> slangasek: oh
[03:11] <tsimonq2> Fair
[03:11] <tsimonq2> I'll do that then
[03:11] <tsimonq2> Thanks slangasek
[03:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: kdeplasma-addons (zesty-proposed/universe) [4:5.9.5-0ubuntu0.2 => 4:5.9.5-0ubuntu0.3] (kubuntu)
[03:53] <slangasek> acheronuk: kcrash 5.38.0-0ubuntu1, still fails its autopkgtests?
[04:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: node-babylon (artful-proposed/primary) [6.18.0-1]
[04:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-babylon [sync] (artful-proposed) [6.18.0-1]
[05:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: node-pretty-ms (artful-proposed/primary) [3.0.0-1]
[05:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: node-rollup-plugin-replace (artful-proposed/primary) [2.0.0-1]
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-pretty-ms [sync] (artful-proposed) [3.0.0-1]
[05:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-rollup-plugin-replace [sync] (artful-proposed) [2.0.0-1]
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: node-rollup-plugin-replace [amd64] (artful-proposed/none) [2.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[05:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: node-rollup (artful-proposed/primary) [0.47.4-3]
[05:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-rollup [sync] (artful-proposed) [0.47.4-3]
[05:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: node-pretty-ms [amd64] (artful-proposed/none) [3.0.0-1] (no packageset)
[05:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-pretty-ms [amd64] (artful-proposed) [3.0.0-1]
[05:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-rollup-plugin-replace [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2.0.0-1]
[05:40] <LocutusOfBorg> slangasek, I know it https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=ca-certificates-java&archive=no&pend-exc=pending-fixed&pend-exc=fixed&pend-exc=done&sev-inc=critical&sev-inc=grave&sev-inc=serious&repeatmerged=yes
[05:41] <LocutusOfBorg> pick one :) they are all the same, openjdk depending on ca-certificate-java, that depends on openjdk
[05:41] <LocutusOfBorg> depending on which is configured before, there is a failure or not
[05:41] <LocutusOfBorg> don't really know how to fix it
[05:45] <slangasek> ugh
[05:46] <slangasek> LocutusOfBorg: if it's genuinely a circular dependency between two packages that both have maintainer scripts, either one should figure out how to not require a maintainer script, or the binary packages should just be merged
[06:12] <LocutusOfBorg> slangasek, doko is the maintainer, not me :)
[06:12] <LocutusOfBorg> I'm just trapped by that bug too :/
[06:13] <LocutusOfBorg> not sure why only armhf spots that bug, maybe slowl architecture, but interesting this happens in Debian too
[06:13] <LocutusOfBorg> and makes things sad
[06:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: amp (artful-proposed/primary) [0.6-2]
[06:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: vlan (trusty-proposed/main) [1.9-3ubuntu10.4 => 1.9-3ubuntu10.5] (core)
[06:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: vlan (xenial-proposed/main) [1.9-3.2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 1.9-3.2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core)
[06:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: vlan (zesty-proposed/main) [1.9-3.2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 1.9-3.2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (core)
[06:53] <doko> slangasek, tdaitx: this started after "cleaning up the openjdk packaging", I suspect this has something to do with the architecture identification changing with the hotspot implementation
[06:53] <acheronuk> slangasek: kcrash 5.38 fails the same way 5.37 in release started to before any of 5.38 was uploaded: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/kcrash/artful/amd64
[06:53] <doko> I know why I didn't want to touch this area ...
[06:55] <acheronuk> slangasek: so kcrash looks like a regression in release rather than a new issue in 5.38. I would also note the test passes fine locally
[07:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: node-irregular-plurals (artful-proposed/primary) [1.2.0-2]
[07:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-irregular-plurals [sync] (artful-proposed) [1.2.0-2]
[07:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: node-irregular-plurals [amd64] (artful-proposed/none) [1.2.0-2] (no packageset)
[07:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: node-plur [amd64] (artful-proposed/none) [2.1.2-2] (no packageset)
[07:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ruby-psych [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.2.4-6build1] (no packageset)
[07:08] <LocutusOfBorg> doko, ^^ I successfully bootstrapped it, if you accept I'll wait to migrate and revert
[07:08] <slangasek> acheronuk: yes, it is the same crash as in release; but it's the uploader's responsibility to resolve this and make the package releasable.  If you can't reproduce it locally, why not disable the test?
[07:08] <LocutusOfBorg> after jruby is built
[07:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-irregular-plurals [amd64] (artful-proposed) [1.2.0-2]
[07:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-plur [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2.1.2-2]
[07:10] <acheronuk> slangasek: I was considering disabling it, but was having a last try at working out an alternative.
[07:10] <slangasek> ok
[07:10] <acheronuk> same with kdelibs4support
[07:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: node-parse-ms (artful-proposed/primary) [1.0.1-2]
[07:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-parse-ms [sync] (artful-proposed) [1.0.1-2]
[07:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: node-parse-ms [amd64] (artful-proposed/none) [1.0.1-2] (no packageset)
[07:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted node-parse-ms [amd64] (artful-proposed) [1.0.1-2]
[07:20] <doko> slangasek: python-defaults and python3-defaults autopkg tests still seem to be priotized. is this correct? if yes, can we lower the priority again?
[07:22] <slangasek> doko: they're still in the low priority "huge" queue; they are ahead of anything else in that low priority queue (so for example, twisted, atlas, openblas).  which packages' tests should take priority right now?
[07:23] <doko> slangasek: openblas atlas, maybe twisted
[07:24] <slangasek> ok, let's see
[07:25] <slangasek> oh; and we definitely shouldn't continue running tests for a version of python3-defaults that's superseded in -proposed :/
[07:30] <slangasek> doko: ok, python3-defaults tests dumped (except those currently running), now to re-queue them
[07:32] <doko> \o/
[07:38] <slangasek> hmm, not sure if the API changes have been deployed to let me dump these into the huge queue instead of the regular queue
[07:42] <slangasek> alrighty, requeued by the non-api method
[08:03] <Laney> slangasek: not yet, I'm told soon
[08:04] <LocutusOfBorg> please accept ruby-psych
[08:05] <apw> slangasek, i don't think i finished those branches, damn
[08:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted ubuntu-fan [source] (zesty-proposed) [0.12.4~17.04.1]
[08:07] <sil2100> smb: hm, no ubuntu-fan for xenial yet?
[08:07] <smb> sil2100, that is because its not uploaded yet... probably could... and there might be a task asking apw to sponsor
[08:08]  * apw looks up ... could be indeed
[08:09] <smb> apw, or maybe not. cannot see anything
[08:09] <smb> probably fell through some cracks
[08:15] <smb> apw, I prepared a new card now for looking at the source pkg I prepared. once that looks good to you I'd push the tree and you could upload it
[08:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted amp [sync] (artful-proposed) [0.6-2]
[08:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ruby-psych [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2.2.4-6build1]
[08:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: amp [i386] (artful-proposed/none) [0.6-2] (no packageset)
[08:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: amp [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/none) [0.6-2] (no packageset)
[08:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: amp [amd64] (artful-proposed/none) [0.6-2] (no packageset)
[08:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: amp [s390x] (artful-proposed/none) [0.6-2] (no packageset)
[08:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: amp [armhf] (artful-proposed/none) [0.6-2] (no packageset)
[08:27] <jibel> hi, is there anything missing to release gnome-software 3.20.5-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> to xenial-updates?
[08:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: amp [arm64] (artful-proposed/none) [0.6-2] (no packageset)
[08:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted amp [amd64] (artful-proposed) [0.6-2]
[08:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted amp [armhf] (artful-proposed) [0.6-2]
[08:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted amp [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [0.6-2]
[08:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted amp [arm64] (artful-proposed) [0.6-2]
[08:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted amp [s390x] (artful-proposed) [0.6-2]
[08:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted amp [i386] (artful-proposed) [0.6-2]
[08:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: tortoisehg [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [4.3.1-1] (no packageset)
[08:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted tortoisehg [amd64] (artful-proposed) [4.3.1-1]
[10:12] <LocutusOfBorg> why are ubuntu chroots still mentioning perl 5.24? aren't them regenerated from time to time?
[10:16] <cjwatson> both of these things can be true :-)
[10:17] <cjwatson> infinity: ^-
[10:21] <LocutusOfBorg> 123 upgraded, 13 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[10:21] <LocutusOfBorg> installing them everytime for every build is really time consuming, and polluting logs :)
[10:25] <cjwatson> some day we'll do the rainbows-and-unicorns project of building buildd chroots as livefs builds in LP and then it'll be much easier to refresh regularly
[10:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: elvish (artful-proposed/primary) [0.10.1-1]
[10:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted elvish [sync] (artful-proposed) [0.10.1-1]
[10:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-pygal [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [2.4.0-1] (no packageset)
[11:03] <doko> Laney: did you override the autopkgtest for gvfs/1.34.0-0ubuntu1 in the recent past? like
[11:03] <doko> # the remaining failures aren't glib's fault
[11:03] <doko> force-skiptest glib2.0/2.53.6-1ubuntu2
[11:03] <doko> now blocks other packages too
[11:04] <LocutusOfBorg> this should unblock pytest-catchlog unbuildability/brokeness ^^ and meh, I want the python3 package too :)
[11:04] <Laney> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/g/gvfs/artful/i386
[11:05] <Laney> that version of glib ran against a different gvfs, and it passed
[11:07] <doko> but how did gvfs migrate then?
[11:07] <Laney> it passed its own tests
[11:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-pygal [amd64] (artful-proposed) [2.4.0-1]
[11:16] <doko> slangasek: since about an hour, publisher runs seem to be at usual speeds now. again, it's a feeling, but it was slow including this morning
[11:23] <apw> doko, most of the runs since 4am my time have been about the 40-50m mark, one was 1:10
[11:32] <doko> apw: it was was others observed as well yesterday, in that binaries accepted only appeared one run later as usual
[12:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: elvish [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.10.1-1] (no packageset)
[12:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: elvish [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.10.1-1] (no packageset)
[12:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: elvish [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.10.1-1] (no packageset)
[12:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: elvish [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.10.1-1] (no packageset)
[12:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: elvish [i386] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.10.1-1] (no packageset)
[12:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: elvish [armhf] (artful-proposed/universe) [0.10.1-1] (no packageset)
[12:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted elvish [amd64] (artful-proposed) [0.10.1-1]
[12:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted elvish [armhf] (artful-proposed) [0.10.1-1]
[12:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted elvish [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [0.10.1-1]
[12:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted elvish [arm64] (artful-proposed) [0.10.1-1]
[12:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted elvish [s390x] (artful-proposed) [0.10.1-1]
[12:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted elvish [i386] (artful-proposed) [0.10.1-1]
[13:03] <infinity> cjwatson: That particular unicorn is on my TODO.
[13:03] <infinity> cjwatson: Though I do also enjoy that chroot upgrades catch fun package bugs more often than one would expect.
[13:07] <gaughen> aw, I forgot that my chat highlights on unicorn :-)
[13:11] <LocutusOfBorg> infinity, do you have examples of such failures during chroot updates?
[13:12] <LocutusOfBorg> of course I wouldn't do a chroot update the day that there is a new perl out, or a new debhelper or dpkg
[13:12] <LocutusOfBorg> I just recreated my pbuilder chroot, and they decreased from 250MB to 100MB
[13:13] <infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Well, most recently was python3-defaults (though that was caught in proposed, so would have been caught even with more frequent updates), but we've had many in the past where an upgrade from a few months ago to today broke, but not from yesterday to today.
[13:13] <infinity> LocutusOfBorg: Not saying that's a valid reason for the chroots being stale, just a cute side-effect.
[13:14] <LocutusOfBorg> debian does them weekly IIRC
[13:14] <LocutusOfBorg> and I agree that they might be painful
[13:14] <LocutusOfBorg> but installing 100MB of packages at each build is... slow
[13:15] <infinity> Not terribly.
[13:15] <LocutusOfBorg> and now we are past freeze, so they should be some stability
[13:15] <infinity> Not compared to build-deps for most packages.
[13:15] <infinity> But you're not telling me anything I don't know, either. :P
[13:15] <LocutusOfBorg> :)
[13:16] <LocutusOfBorg> well, they are poisoning the logs, I do meld them when I find regressions, and that upgrade at the begin takes a lot of place
[13:16] <infinity> Honestly, the only person who usually has a resonable argument for chroot staleness is doko, who wants the old build-essential kicked out when gcc bumps versions, so people with undeclared build-deps on old-gcc will FTBFS.
[13:16] <infinity> "poisoning the logs" is a bit strong.
[13:17] <infinity> It's some extra bits at the top.
[13:17] <LocutusOfBorg> I hope you got the right meaning
[13:17] <LocutusOfBorg> what is annoying is that "(Reading database ... 30%
[13:17] <LocutusOfBorg> (Reading database ... 35%
[13:17] <LocutusOfBorg> "
[13:17] <cjwatson> That's just an apt bug IMO; it shouldn't say that when stdout isn't a terminal.
[13:17] <infinity> Yes, that's an annoying apt "feature" that showed up a year or two ago.
[13:17] <infinity> juliank and I had a chat about it once and why it is the way it is.
[13:17] <cjwatson> I fixed a similar thing in debconf a couple of months ago.
[13:18] <LocutusOfBorg> just to be clear to what I mean, look at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/337787137/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-amd64.libpng1.6_1.6.32-2_BUILDING.txt.gz
[13:18] <infinity> I think there's some switch I can mangle to turn that off (at the loss of some other functionality that I probably don't care about), I should look into that.
[13:18] <infinity> LocutusOfBorg: We know what you mean.
[13:18] <LocutusOfBorg> 1837 useless lines before the builds starts
[13:18] <LocutusOfBorg> and 1276 for the actual build :)
[13:19] <LocutusOfBorg> that would be awesome!
[13:19] <cjwatson> (Actually, sorry, "Reading database" is dpkg, not apt.)
[13:19] <LocutusOfBorg> why debian is not adding that lines?
[13:19] <doko> infinity: well, saving 10-15 seconds for every build adds ... but now that all the updates are in place, please could you regenerate these?
[13:19] <infinity> cjwatson: It's dpkg, but it's dpkg doing so because apt has started telling dpkg it has a controlling terminal when it doesn't.
[13:19] <cjwatson> Oh right, yeah.
[13:19] <doko> LocutusOfBorg: because they don't upgrade the chroot
[13:19] <infinity> doko: Yeah, updates are happening soon.
[13:20] <cjwatson> doko: That doesn't actually explain the lack of "Reading database" when installing build-deps.
[13:21] <LocutusOfBorg> because the second one is inside sbuild?
[13:21] <doko> ahh, these ...
[13:22] <cjwatson> I think the answer is that Debian has a more recent version of sbuild that sets DPkg::Use-Pty=false.
[13:22] <cjwatson> Dpkg, rather
[13:22] <infinity> cjwatson: Is that in the new sbuild?
[13:23] <infinity> cjwatson: If so, I'll put it in the chroot configs, so we get it for upgrades too.
[13:23] <infinity> (And don't need a new sbuild)
[13:23] <cjwatson> infinity: Yes, added in 0.69.0.  Can we please cherry-pick the sbuild fix instead?
[13:23] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, we can cherrypick the sbuild fix too if you want, but the upgrades happen outside sbuild.
[13:23] <cjwatson> I don't like stuff being done in chroot configs when it could be done somewhere more visible.
[13:23] <cjwatson> True, but we could put that in launchpad-buildd.
[13:24] <infinity> *shrug*
[13:24] <infinity> Then we should move all the chroot configs into lp-buildd.
[13:24] <infinity> Which then makes the chroots less reproducible for people using them outside lp-buildd.
[13:24] <cjwatson> I don't think it would be terrible to duplicate configs, necessarily ...
[13:25] <cjwatson> Dpkg::Use-Pty=false was apparently added as part of the huge sbuild refactoring to decouple chroot access
[13:26] <cjwatson> 668e86dbfe5d14defe54926cf58dec2dc39d876f
[13:26] <infinity> chroot-autobuild$ cat etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99buildd
[13:26] <infinity> APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "1";
[13:26] <infinity> APT::Install-Recommends "0";
[13:26] <infinity> DPkg::Options {"--force-unsafe-io";};
[13:26] <infinity> That's our current "special" congfig.
[13:26] <infinity> Oh, and can I ditch the top one now?
[13:26] <infinity> I think I can.
[13:26] <infinity> You inject the keys now.
[13:26] <cjwatson> Uh, well
[13:26] <cjwatson> It's not totally reliable in all cases
[13:26] <cjwatson> Yet
[13:26] <infinity> Oh. :/
[13:26] <infinity> That's discouraging.
[13:27] <cjwatson> I mean it should be, mostly, but there are cases like local development setups where I don't think it entirely works right yet.
[13:27] <cjwatson> I'd definitely like to get there.
[13:28] <infinity> Anyhow, I can add Use-Pty to that, and we can also make lp-buildd write out 99buildd, overwriting whatever the chroot defaults are, if you like.
[13:28] <infinity> Though, that's problematic if we need to special-case it per target.
[13:28] <infinity> (ie: if that didn't exist in trusty's apt)
[13:29] <cjwatson> apt doesn't care about nonexistent config keys
[13:29] <infinity> No?  That's handy.
[13:30] <juliank> It's also confusing that we don't care about them. I'd rather have warnings for unknown keys eventually.
[13:30] <cjwatson> Special-casing per target is easy in launchpad-buildd, anyway.
[13:30] <infinity> juliank: Then I need an APT::Config-Warn=false key. ;)
[13:30] <cjwatson> Wouldn't be the first time.
[13:31] <infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, we've done it in the past.  I don't like it, though.
[13:31] <infinity> I mean, when I can help it.
[13:31] <cjwatson> I would like it more if we had cdimage-style version comparison
[13:31] <infinity> Yes, and I don't want to cargo-cult that around either.
[13:32] <infinity> As useful as it is.
[13:32] <juliank> Currently there is strictly typed config backend stuff, but it's only turned on in tests (see configure-index or whats it called for the config config format)
[13:32] <cjwatson> It would certainly have to be done a bit differently in order to avoid having to upgrade launchpad-buildd for every new series.
[13:33] <cjwatson> Could use distro-info, I suppose, but I kind of want to minimise buildd's dependencies on that kind of thing.
[13:33] <infinity> cjwatson: Well, buildd-manager, being connected to the actual LP DB, has a real view of all the series, and their order of appearance, it could pass a dict.
[13:33] <cjwatson> This is true.
[13:33] <cjwatson> We already send flags for some things.
[13:33] <cjwatson> (Though I wouldn't want to do this in the same way; this kind of thing doesn't need proper columns in the DB.)
[13:34] <infinity> cjwatson: Or, if we're okay with magic numbers, it could just pass DIST_SEQ=19 and we know that 19==trusty, and do our comparisons on integers.
[13:34] <infinity> (19 isn't trusty, but I'm too lazy to count)
[13:34] <cjwatson> I'm not OK with magic numbers for this. :-)
[13:34] <cjwatson> 19 is trusty if you're 0-based
[13:34] <infinity> Closer than I thought.
[13:34] <infinity> And no, I don't dig magic numbers.
[13:35] <infinity> But an indexed array of series is a tiny amount of data lost in the noise, if we really wanted to have that on the buildds for $reasons.
[13:35] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks, really thanks for caring and trying to fix it :) kudos to all of you for this!
[13:39] <cjwatson> The other thing about buildd setup is that I'm trying to move things gradually towards the point where it's easier to run a test build locally via actual launchpad-buildd code.
[13:39] <cjwatson> You can do it today, but it's still a fair bit of setup.
[13:40] <cjwatson> So I don't want to make it *too* dependent on buildd-manager information for correct functioning.
[13:40] <infinity> Fair.
[13:41] <infinity> Point's moot right now anyway, as the one reason we envisioned needing version comparisons isn't an issue.
[13:41] <infinity> But something to think about for the next time we think we care.
[14:40] <doko> python-twisted-core/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: python-automat (>= 0.6.0)
[14:40] <doko> python3-twisted/amd64 unsatisfiable Depends: python3-automat (>= 0.6.0)
[14:41] <doko> why? this dependency was good enough to run all it's tests ...
[14:43] <cjwatson> doko: main vs. universe
[14:44] <cjwatson> doko: it's in c-m-proposed
[14:44] <doko> ahh, and it still sees 0.5 in release/universe
[14:45] <doko> so this should go away, and then the autopkg tests run again \o/
[15:00] <doko> now looking at the virtualbox autopkg test failure ... did anybody look at those before?
[15:25] <LocutusOfBorg> doko, ping me for vbox
[15:26] <LocutusOfBorg> Running module version sanity check.
[15:26] <LocutusOfBorg> Error! Module version 5.1.28_Ubuntu for vboxvideo.ko
[15:26] <LocutusOfBorg> is not newer than what is already found in kernel 4.13.0-11-generic (5.1.28_Ubuntu).
[15:26] <LocutusOfBorg> apw, ^^ please ignore it
[15:26] <LocutusOfBorg> the kernel has already the module builtin, so the dkms one can't be installed
[15:26] <LocutusOfBorg> this is a bug that is in dkms, that should ignore and not error out when the module is already available and provided
[15:27] <LocutusOfBorg> anyhow, ignoring is fine
[15:27] <LocutusOfBorg> (that test works when virtualbox has an higher version than the kernel one, and fails when kernel folks merge the version)
[16:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: maas (trusty-proposed/main) [1.9.5+bzr4599-0ubuntu1~14.04.1 => 1.9.5+bzr4599-0ubuntu1~14.04.2] (ubuntu-server)
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected vlc [source] (zesty-proposed) [2.2.6-6~ubuntu17.04.1]
[18:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: aodh (zesty-proposed/main) [4.0.1-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 4.0.2-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[18:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: ceilometer (zesty-proposed/main) [1:8.0.2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 1:8.1.1-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[18:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: cinder (zesty-proposed/main) [2:10.0.4-0ubuntu1 => 2:10.0.6-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[18:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted partitionmanager [source] (zesty-proposed) [3.0.0-1ubuntu0.1]
[18:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: heat (zesty-proposed/main) [1:8.0.2-0ubuntu1 => 1:8.0.4-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[18:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: keystone (zesty-proposed/main) [2:11.0.2-0ubuntu1 => 2:11.0.3-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[18:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted partitionmanager [source] (xenial-proposed) [1.2.1-0ubuntu1.1]
[18:19] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted kdeplasma-addons [source] (zesty-proposed) [4:5.9.5-0ubuntu0.3]
[18:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted vlan [source] (zesty-proposed) [1.9-3.2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[18:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: neutron-fwaas (zesty-proposed/main) [1:10.0.1-0ubuntu1 => 1:10.1.0-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[18:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: sahara (zesty-proposed/universe) [1:6.0.0-0ubuntu1 => 1:6.0.2-0ubuntu1] (openstack)
[18:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted vlan [source] (xenial-proposed) [1.9-3.2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>]
[18:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted vlan [source] (trusty-proposed) [1.9-3ubuntu10.5]
[18:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: nova (zesty-proposed/main) [2:15.0.6-0ubuntu1.1 => 2:15.0.7-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[18:30] <stgraber> can I get a quick review of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxd/+bug/1718342 ? nothing crazy in there and would love to upload before the sprint
[19:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected calc-stats [source] (artful-proposed) [1.2-0ubuntu1]
[19:08] <doko> finally \o/
[19:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: calc-stats (artful-proposed/primary) [1.3-0ubuntu1]
[19:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: neutron (zesty-proposed/main) [2:10.0.2-0ubuntu1.1 => 2:10.0.3-0ubuntu1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[19:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted libvirt [source] (trusty-proposed) [1.2.2-0ubuntu13.1.23]
[19:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected maas [source] (trusty-proposed) [1.9.5+bzr4599-0ubuntu1~14.04.2]
[19:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-getting-started-docs [amd64] (artful-proposed/main) [3.26.0-0ubuntu1] (personal-gunnarhj, ubuntu-desktop)
[19:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: gnome-user-docs [amd64] (artful-proposed/main) [3.26.0-0ubuntu1] (personal-gunnarhj, ubuntu-desktop)
[19:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted maas [source] (trusty-proposed) [1.9.5+bzr4599-0ubuntu1~14.04.2]
[19:40] <slangasek> stgraber: looking
[19:41] <slangasek> stgraber: btw, can you explain why introspecting docker/run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf and grepping out fe80 is a "better" way to handle detecting DNS?
[19:41] <slangasek> /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf seems like an implementation detail to me rather than a public interface; and I don't know why fe80 is showing up here in the first place
[19:43] <stgraber> slangasek: so the reason why I did it that way is because fe80 was showing up in systemd-resolve --status but it was rather annoying to filter out
[19:44] <stgraber> slangasek: as --status is meant to be user readable with fancy formatting and stuff. The underlying file OTOH can be trivially parsed to drop the odd fe80 and then look for a "real" DNS server
[19:44] <slangasek> stgraber: right, not being able to just grep -v the line because of multiple nameservers on the line would be annoying, I can see that.  But why is the fe80 there to begin with?
[19:44] <slangasek> the tests clearly passed just one revision earlier, and I've never seen this fe80 before
[19:46] <stgraber> slangasek: my guess is that it has to do with netplan recently re-enabling IPv6 (which is a good thing)
[19:46] <stgraber> slangasek: the docker test failure showing up lines up pretty well with that nplan upload
[19:46] <stgraber> I'm still confused as to why resolved would ever consider/show a link-local address for a dns server though
[19:47] <slangasek> stgraber: well, see parallel discussion in #ubuntu-devel where a LL ipv4 address is exactly what you expect to see in some clouds :)  But I don't know where the ipv6 one is coming from...
[19:48] <slangasek> I was wondering what lxd had changed to start advertising this into containers - but I guess not
[19:49] <stgraber> slangasek: LXD didn't change, but nplan until a couple of days ago would turn off IPv6 entirely on all interfaces it manages
[19:49] <stgraber> slangasek: which is likely why mwhudson didn't see the fe80 craziness when he added that code to the docker.io adt
[19:49] <stgraber> slangasek: then cyphermox fixed the nplan issue, re-enabling IPv6 on nplan managed interfaces by default (for SLAAC), causing this thing to show up
[19:50] <slangasek> sure
[19:50] <slangasek> but when you say "fe80 craziness"
[19:50] <stgraber> slangasek: my guess is that something (most likely networkd) is parsing the RA and extracing the RDNSS field, which dnsmasq most likely populates with both link-local and global IPv6 addresses of the DNS server
[19:50] <slangasek> this is a container, launched via lxd
[19:51] <slangasek> so... there shouldn't be any "craziness" there that's not of lxd's doing? :)
[19:51] <slangasek> ah, dnsmasq
[19:51] <slangasek> ok
[19:51] <stgraber> none of that is new, but in the past we didn't have networkd extracting that stuff and the switch to networkd happened at the same time as nplan turned off ipv6
[19:52] <slangasek> stgraber: ok, but then you still have the situation that fe80 is showing up in the list but is not working for DNS resolution (else you would not have needed to grep it out)
[19:52] <slangasek> is the problem that this is recorded as link local without corresponding interface routing info?
[19:52] <slangasek> is this a systemd bug?
[19:55] <stgraber> let me re-check an older log, I may have an idea of what's actually happening (and it may not be a systemd bug after all)
[19:55] <slangasek> ok
[19:56] <stgraber> hmm, "temporary failure resolving", ok, so my theory that DNS was functional but DHCPv4 wasn't, causing a missing IPv4 route to ftpmaster.internal, is wrong.
[19:57] <stgraber> so yes, it does look like we somehow hit a case where systemd-networkd had received a DNS server for the interface through a RA but is unable to send DNS requests to it
[19:57] <stgraber> which would point at a systemd-resolved bug
[19:58] <slangasek> stgraber: would you mind opening a bug report on systemd then, so we can discuss it next week w/ xnox?
[19:58] <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25588197/ that confirms that the dnsmasq side of things is fine, DNS resolves through all 3 addresses
[19:59] <stgraber> yeah, I'll file a systemd bug
[20:00] <slangasek> ta
[20:02] <stgraber> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1718771
[20:07] <slangasek> LocutusOfBorg: where are these virtualbox autopkgtests triggered from?  no Testsuite in debian/control, no debian/tests
[20:16] <stgraber> slangasek: I hope this resolved thing didn't distract you from the LXD 2.18 FFe ;)
[20:18] <slangasek> stgraber: no moreso than the half dozen other things I'm trying to juggle ;-)
[20:18] <stgraber> :)
[20:20] <slangasek> stgraber: it'll be a little while longer, I think perhaps you would like me to have breakfast before I review an FFe
[20:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: calc-stats (artful-proposed/primary) [1.4-0ubuntu1]
[20:21] <stgraber> slangasek: that's some pretty late breakfast, isn't it called lunch at this point? :)
[20:31] <LocutusOfBorg> slangasek, please ask apw and look at discussion on #-devel :)
[20:31] <LocutusOfBorg> not sure who and how are triggered
[20:32] <dpb1> hi guys -- would love some release-team ffe approval on this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/1658469
[20:34] <slangasek> stgraber: it's still breakfast if it's the first meal.  also, eggs ;)  anyway, while I'm doing that, would you like to trade and review LP: #1567597 ?
[20:34] <apw> slangasek: virtual box is dkms, so autodep8
[20:35] <stgraber> slangasek: yeah, I can take that one
[20:35] <nacc> cyphermox: i also updated the corresponding MIR back to new: LP: #1687454
[20:35] <slangasek> apw: where does that autodep8 live?
[20:36] <slangasek> undiscoverable triggers offend me
[20:36] <apw> the autodep8 script is in dkms, triggered direct in Britney I assume
[20:37] <apw> the virtual box specific failure is because of the kernel containing those drivers too
[20:37] <apw> and lob had a suggestion to change versioning in kernel
[20:37] <apw> to make them not clash and trigger that issue
[20:40] <slangasek> ok, and virtualbox gets triggered because it has autodep8 via dkms (in britney2, yes), and depends on python3.6
[20:41] <slangasek> if we're going to hard-code it in britney, we could at least refine it to not retrigger the tests when $random_binary_package that causes us to be triggered is not the dkms package. :P
[20:41] <slangasek> otherwise, I'd certainly prefer having this declared in debian/control
[20:46] <slangasek> dpb1: the MIR bug does not show as approved
[20:47] <slangasek> dpb1: also, process-wise, using for an FFe a bug that's already in a 'triaged' state can theoretically cause it to fall under the radar
[20:48] <slangasek> dpb1: I've acked the overall design, but it blocks on MIR team signoff still
[21:00] <jbicha> anyone besides Laney want to review some UIFe's? LP: #1717946 LP: #1718083 LP: #1715869 LP: #1713712
[21:54] <slangasek> apw: replied to your comment on LP: #1714968 at sil2100's request
[21:57] <apw> slangasek: thanks will look it over again with that in mind tommorrow
[23:31] <slangasek> batch requeuing of failed autopkgtests now
[23:32] <slangasek> (those referenced from britney - so only a few dozen per arch)
[23:36] <slangasek> looks like all the weirdness with cups driver autopkgtests timing out is resolved
[23:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed [amd64] (trusty-proposed/main) [3.13.0-133.182] (core, kernel)
[23:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [4.10.0-36.40~16.04.1] (kernel)


[12:59] <bdrung> Sarvatt: re bug #733321 - the drm-intel-next driver does not crash when running phoronix-test-suite
[12:59] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 733321 in plymouth (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[sandybridge] GPU lockups and other crashes (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733321
[20:17] <bjsnider> ricotz, will the gnome-shell from the ppa in natty be ubuntu-ized with appindicators and so forth?
[20:28] <ricotz> bjsnider, hmm, i dont know, gnome-shell has its own implementation of that
[20:28] <bjsnider> gnome-shell has its own appindicators code?
[20:32] <ricotz> yeah, i think so, functional combined with the message tray
[20:33] <ricotz> havent really followed the changes lately
[20:47] <tjaalton> seems like you don't follow the planets :)
[20:49] <bjsnider> ricotz, i thought you were a part of the team involved in that ppa?
[20:53] <bryceh_> tjaalton, quite the saga
[20:54] <tjaalton> bryceh_: yep :)
[20:55] <bryceh_> tjaalton, how do you think things will end up?
[20:55] <bryceh_> seems like people aren't finding common ground, I wonder if they'll all just go on getting madder and madder.
[20:55] <tjaalton> bryceh_: "in fire"
[20:55] <tjaalton> :P
[20:56] <tjaalton> (Kosh in B5)
[20:56] <bryceh_> heh
[20:56] <tjaalton> actually
[20:56] <bjsnider> bryceh_, are you talking about this: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/654?
[20:57] <tjaalton> I did like owen taylor's post
[20:57] <tjaalton> http://blog.fishsoup.net/2011/03/11/what-does-the-user-see/
[20:58] <bryceh_> bjsnider, yeah plus the ones by dneary, aaron, and now this lecture by jeff
[20:58] <bryceh_> makes my brain hurt :-)
[20:59] <bjsnider> i would like to know if this agreement between jon mccann and ted gould in 2008 over appindicators really happened
[21:00] <tjaalton> problem is only a fraction of the discussions are archived, and people tend to remember different things
[21:00] <bryceh_> yep
[21:01] <bjsnider> it sounds like the kind of thing that should have been written down in a contract if it did take place. would mccann really have said "you guys go off and solve this problem and we'll accept the code when you're done"?
[21:02] <bryceh_> well, I know ted well.  And I know he is anything but shy about talking about ideas, even to people who disagree.  Indeed he *loves* arguing with people.
[21:02] <bryceh_> so I can totally believe that they *did* talk
[21:03] <bjsnider> with no witnesses, nothing on paper, only handshakes
[21:03] <bryceh_> otoh, ted's not really a 'lets make a contract' type... he'll more often than not go off and do things as he thinks they should
[21:04] <bryceh_> anyway, I don't know
[21:04] <ScottK> bjsnider: The thesis that they talked in 2008 and nothing happened for 2 years is at odds with the facts.
[21:05] <ScottK> The work didn't start in earnest until ~ Lucid's UDS in Nov 2009.
[21:05] <bjsnider> ScottK, canonical went off and really did develop the code, i understand that
[21:05] <ScottK> bjsnider: Yes, but not without trying collaboration first.
[21:05] <ScottK> There were Gnome people at the UDS discussion and it was decided to discuss the spec at FDO.
[21:06] <ScottK> Reading that discussion, which is public, I don't get the feeling the Gnome side of the discussion was particularly open or serious.
[21:06] <bryceh_> ScottK, I think I was at that meeting too, and seem to recall it that way too
[21:06] <bjsnider> did gnome participate in that fdo discussion?
[21:06] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:06] <ScottK> But not very seriously, IMO.
[21:07] <ScottK> The fact that Canonical's Gnome and KDE had compatible implementations appear at the same time makes a good case for collaboration was done where there was collaboration to be had.
[21:08] <ScottK> I'm not holding Canonical up as perfect, they aren't, but it's certainly not the way certain people are trying to portray it.
[21:09] <bjsnider> ScottK, now you need to write a 5k word blog post about it
[21:10] <ScottK> No.  I commented on Waugh's post.  That's as far as I care to get dragged into it.
[21:10] <bjsnider> i haven't gotten that far down yet
[21:11] <bjsnider> did waugh get fired by canonical or did he leave on his own?
[21:11] <ScottK> Many of the criticisms of (the Ayatana part of) Canonical are very valid.
[21:11] <ScottK> No idea.
[21:11] <bjsnider> i mean does he have an ax to grind?
[21:11] <ScottK> I think he's definitely got a slanted perspective.  No idea if that's why.
[21:13] <ScottK> The fact that they require copyright assignment and insist all work be one on LP makes collaboration very difficult.
[21:14] <ScottK> Of course Gnome insists all work be done in Gnome Git, so they're equally difficult in that regard.
[21:14] <bjsnider> and didn't they insist that all discussion take place on their ml?
[21:15] <ScottK> (Look into the history of Zeitgeist's rejection from Gnome)
[21:15] <ScottK> That's a non-Canonical example where many of the same introspective issues in Gnome seem to be at work.
[21:15] <bryceh_> Gnome has lots of rather strict requirements for stuff like that, which is why we never had Inkscape join Gnome
[21:16] <bjsnider> yes,, why bother with their strict requirements when we have strict requirements of our own to worry about
[21:16] <bryceh_> heh
[21:17] <bryceh_> well, at the time the requirement was that you must use cvs and bugzilla, and we were wanting svn and some better bug tracker
[21:17] <ScottK> Canonical has strict requirements for Canonical funded work.  Very different than requirements for getting into Ubuntu.
[21:18] <bryceh_> yep
[21:19] <tjaalton> so maybe that was the reason to keep it out of gtk+..
[21:19] <tjaalton> it= the lib..indicator
[21:20] <bryceh_> well, it wouldn't surprise me if it came down to a control issue at some level or other.  If it were merely a communications problem or technical issue, those seem much more straightforward to solve.
[21:22] <bjsnider> maybe the problem is canonical doesn't have enough core gnome devs working for it directly then. because then it would be in their control. subject to shuttleworth's decisions
[21:24] <tjaalton> but that wouldn't be collaboration :)
[21:26] <bryceh_> maybe the real question here is does the tangible value of collaboration outweigh the perceived value of control?
[21:28] <ScottK> If you care about user experience, I don't think collaboration is optional.
[21:29] <bryceh_> I agree, but that appears not to be a universally held view...
[21:29] <ScottK> Users should be able to use applications in their DE of choice without having to spend a lot of time thinking about what toolkit or open source project it was developed in.
[21:29] <ScottK> bryceh_: Agreed.
[21:29] <ScottK> Although to be fair to Canonical, I think they care about this in the context of Ubuntu users.
[21:30] <ScottK> I think it's an open question though how much they really care about the broader free software ecosystem.
[21:32]  * bryceh_ nods
[21:38] <bjsnider> otaylor's post seems more open and inviting to collaborators, while shuttleworth's sound like "you've failed me for the last time, admiral".
[21:39] <ScottK> There are varying degrees of willingness to collaborate in all camps.
[21:42] <bjsnider> but otaylor's pointing out that the programming resources that went into unity could have been used to improve g-s is also applicable everywhere around linux: why is it that every time someone has a problem with rhythmbox he goes off and creates a new media player? why not make r-b better instead of dummying up something from scratch? do we have to have 47 media players in linux?
[21:43] <bjsnider> now we'll have a confusing number of shells too i guess
[21:44] <bryceh_> bah, I don't buy into the competition == inefficient use of resources
[21:45] <ScottK> Avoiding competition and planning everything out worked out really well for the USSR.
[21:46] <bryceh_> fact is, when you have a single thingee that everyone contributes to, it inevitably builds up layers of bureaucracy (it has to), and it can get to the point that the activation energy to get into that is way above what it takes to JFDI
[21:46] <bjsnider> bryceh_, so you'd like to see 47 xorgs
[21:46] <bjsnider> and endless flame wars about how "the one i use is the bestest"
[21:46] <ScottK> cough Wayland cough
[21:46] <bryceh_> bjsnider, ahem wayland?
[21:46] <bjsnider> ok, xorg sucks
[21:46] <bryceh_> bjsnider, Xorg is sort of proof of the premise ;-)
[21:47] <bjsnider> one competitor is fine
[21:47] <bryceh_> nah, it's an evolution
[21:47] <bjsnider> but i could sit here and list all of the media players on linux for the next 5 hours and not finish
[21:47] <bryceh_> early on you might have 47 different ideas, and that's fine
[21:47] <bryceh_> but over time those should die off, and the best survive
[21:47] <ScottK> bjsnider: If you want to avoid a competitor project then you have to be open enough to what others want that they think it's worthwhile to play together.
[21:47] <bryceh_> (this doesn't always happen)
[21:48] <bryceh_> if it does, and it boils down to 2-3 good options, that's ok
[21:48] <ScottK> Media players are a bad example because they are so easy to do (at least badly)
[21:48] <bryceh_> when you get down to just 1, then you get complacent, bureaucratic, and out of touch.  So it's time to have a bunch of fresh new ideas
[21:48] <ScottK> http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/how-to-create-a-media-player-in-30-seconds/
[21:48] <bryceh_> the important thing is to be able to *let go* and let less popular ideas die off
[21:49] <bryceh_> that's really hard though, especially when it's your own baby that has to die
[21:49] <bjsnider> ScottK, that post should be destroyed for the good of mankind
[21:49] <bjsnider> bryceh_, right, so ego is heavily involved in this
[21:49] <ScottK> I don't care how many media players there are long as at least one doesn't suck.
[21:49] <bryceh_> bjsnider, in fact ego is an important part
[21:50] <bryceh_> what else is going to drive someone to spend countless evenings voluntarily creating something?
[21:50] <bjsnider> money, for one thing
[21:50] <bryceh_> they have a cool idea and want to see it exist, and have people find value in it
[21:51] <bryceh_> bjsnider, sure but I'm talking within the context of open source
[21:51] <bryceh_> and even with money, there's a lot better ways to make money than writing software ;-)
[21:52] <ScottK> And there are better ways to make money writing software than writing free software, even when you're funded.
[21:53] <bryceh_> ScottK, like taking money from one of those aforementioned 47 media players?
[21:53] <ScottK> No.  I think that was just idiotic.
[21:54] <ScottK> Canonical will lose more money from the bad PR and loss of goodwill than that will ever make the.
[21:54] <ScottK> the/them
[21:55] <bryceh_> I think that's a fair observation
[21:55] <bryceh_> sort of goes back to what I was saying about value of control vs. value of collaboration
[21:56] <ScottK> http://abock.org/2011/03/10/opensuse-11-4-and-banshee-amazon-mp3 <-- Exhibit A
[21:56] <ScottK> Gotta run.  Chat with you later.
[21:56] <bryceh_> there seems to be a rather wide set of opinions on where that balance should lay


[17:09] <johnc4510> i never get the Hug Day email announcement until the week of the event. So we can never get it in the UWN.
[17:09] <johnc4510> :(
[18:38] <boredandblogging> johnc4510: I know what you mean
[18:39] <johnc4510> boredandblogging: you should have mail from me about this
[18:39] <johnc4510> i emailed martin mai about it and he responded positively
[18:40] <boredandblogging> johnc4510: excellent
[18:40] <johnc4510> yep
[18:40] <johnc4510> i should have done this earlier but...
[18:40] <boredandblogging> no biggie
[18:41] <johnc4510> yep
[18:46] <Ursinha> how come
[18:46] <johnc4510> Ursinha: ?
[18:46] <johnc4510> lol
[18:46] <Ursinha> johnc4510, using tab completion with channels
[18:47] <johnc4510> ah
[18:47] <johnc4510> k
[18:47] <Ursinha> I do that sometimes, but generally I don't have access so no problem
[18:47] <Ursinha> sorry :)
[18:47] <johnc4510> no biggey
[18:50] <johnc4510> boredandblogging: is there anywhere i can get the server servey results without having to fill out the form?
[18:51] <johnc4510> boredandblogging: never mind i found it
[19:01] <boredandblogging> ok
[19:02] <johnc4510> boredandblogging: i just opened an email from jon reagan
[19:02] <johnc4510> is he on the us teams board now
[19:02] <johnc4510> ?
[19:19] <boredandblogging> johnc4510: yes
[19:19] <boredandblogging> i snookered him into it
[19:19] <boredandblogging> :-P
[19:19] <johnc4510> lol nice


[05:35] <head_victim> Quick question, for bug 837831 should that be filed against ubuntu-docs or -website or something else entirely?
[05:35] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 837831 in ubuntu "Unreadable font colours on help.ubuntu.com" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837831
[06:00] <jbicha> head_victim: ubuntu-docs is fine
[06:01] <head_victim> jbicha: thanks, wasn't sure it it just picked up a theme or not
[06:02] <jbicha> the theme comes from our stylesheet, I was actually playing with the stylesheet today
[06:06] <head_victim> Cheers, the bug came from another network and I'm a little inexperienced with bugs so was just trying to make it end up in the right place.
[06:07] <jbicha> thanks!
[06:08] <head_victim> I always do what I can to try and encourage those outside the usual "ubuntu sphere" to get involved.
[07:49] <DarkwingDuck> mdke, Ping
[15:47] <Overseman> So this is the place for the ubuntu docs team right?
[16:18] <head_victim> Overseman: indeed
[16:24] <Overseman> Cool I just wanted to point out that one of the pages for the doc team is a little outdated...I'm certain that the next meeting isn't on june 12 lol heres the link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[16:25] <head_victim> Hmm good point, I don't know if there is a regular timeslot so I don't think there has been any meetings set since then
[16:26] <head_victim> Most things are nutted out on the mailing list
[16:37] <Overseman> Just thought it was worth pointing out
[16:37] <head_victim> Overseman: it's a good point
[16:37] <Overseman> I've enlisted to get on the mailing list so I can start finding ways to get envolved
[16:38] <head_victim> That's a very good start
[16:38] <head_victim> What sort of documentation are you interested in?
[16:43] <Overseman> testing and verifying accuracy
[16:44] <Overseman> In the world of Microsoft I'm a systems engineer and close to a MCM in the world of linux I'm n00b I figure testing and verifying for accuracy is the best way for me to earn EXP and it helps the community as well
[16:44] <head_victim> Good to hear
[16:45] <head_victim> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs is a list of open bugs at the moment. Might give you some ideas about what needs fixing and what faults are already known.
[16:50] <Overseman> Awesome; thanks for the heads up!
[16:52] <head_victim> No worries, if you ever get stuck and no one is in here to help just shoot the mailing list an email :)
[16:54] <Overseman> Will do


[12:39] <NaNO2x> so no one is here really?
[12:40] <takkaria> nope
[12:40] <takkaria> I think the recommended thing to do is copy someone else's laptop page as a starting point
[12:40] <NaNO2x> this is just great :P
[12:41] <NaNO2x> yeah thats what i plan on doing but i'd prefer from the official fresh copy
[12:41] <takkaria> me too
[12:41] <takkaria> mind you, I dunno how much info I can provide.  "works fine all the time, apart from audio driver distortion fixed in the latest version of alsa"
[12:44] <NaNO2x> well my few issues involve the webcam and a few mousepad issues and the internal mics and having to use the alt cd because of the ati card :P
[12:44] <takkaria> ah, yeah, I could see a template being more useful there
[04:36] <NaNO2x> hello, is anyone from the testing team here?
[09:13] <vimalg2> gma 950? anyone
[02:08] <loak> hello all, I'm looking for any help to install the omnibook module on an XE2 hp laptop
[03:13] <loak> hello people, how do I use the omnibook-integration.patch file, in the sources of the omnibook module ?


[00:20] <skrp> i come home and my ubuntu server is hacked hard. vlc running at 99%. auth.log all removed
[00:21] <skrp> i can't apt-get remove/purge firefox, which was totally hijacked
[00:21] <patdk-lap> what where those things doing installed on a server?
[00:22] <tarpman> skrp: pull the plug. wipe the disks, reinstall, restore data from backup. you have know way to know what's been done. probably all kinds of rooted
[00:22] <tarpman> *no way
[00:23] <skrp> any way i can snapshot and inspect what they did later?
[00:24] <tarpman> shut it down first, then boot off a livecd if you want to look around or take an image of the disk
[00:24] <sarnold> an alternate plan is to pull the plug, get new disks, reinstall, restore data -- and then do forensics on the hacked images to learn more about it. Keeping in mind that they might have left behind "gifts" (in both the english sense and german sense :) designed to sabotage inspection..
[00:25] <patdk-lap> I would be paranoid of restoring data
[00:25] <patdk-lap> if restoring data == restoring website
[00:25] <patdk-lap> that is likely how they got in to begin with
[00:25] <patdk-lap> previously hacked, or just vaunerable
[00:26] <sarnold> I'd suspect first brute-force sshd paswords, then cpanels/webpanel things, _then_ website content..
[00:26] <patdk-lap> I have seen systems hacked, and then never really abused for months or years
[00:26] <patdk-lap> I always see website first
[00:26] <skrp> hmmm yeah
[00:27] <skrp> i'm going to have to wipe this one, and my pfsense box it is behind
[00:27] <patdk-lap> ssh is too easy to protect against, and never install cpanel/webpanel things
[00:27] <sarnold> patdk-lap :)
[00:27]  * patdk-lap notes another wordpress thing was fixed over the weekend :)
[00:27] <patdk-lap> or was that last week
[00:29] <sarnold> probably "last week" will never be wrong with wordpress...
[00:55] <neonixcoder> When I try to upgrade from 10.04 to 12.04 some times I am getting "locale: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.15' not found (required by locale)"
[00:55] <neonixcoder> Any suggestions on this?
[05:53] <roracle> hey guys when i set up my server, do I need to put a ".com" at the end?  the reason i ask is because i need to set up postfix for sendmail, and can't seem to get it working, and was wondering if that might be why?
[05:53] <roracle> *i mean do i need a ".com" at the end of the hostname
[06:48] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:40] <Amillo> Hey guys, while trying to install apache on 12.04 I'm getting an error unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. I've went through a lot of commands trying to solve it but none have been successful, anyone got any ideas?
[10:40] <Amillo> I've made a fresh server and that didn't solve it either
[10:41] <maxb> You do know 12.04 is ancient, right?
[10:42] <Amillo> Yep
[10:42] <Amillo> But I was told to use 12.04, would 14.04 be a better choice?
[10:43] <maxb> Unless you have a requirement you really absolutely can't change, never prefer a version that is obsolete
[10:43] <maxb> (and even then, try to subvert the requirement)
[10:43] <Amillo> I've got my DNS setup on 12.04
[10:43] <Amillo> would using 14.04 on an apache effect this
[10:44] <maxb> On different machines or VMs? No.
[10:44] <Amillo> just vms
[10:46] <maxb> If you are setting up a new installation of Ubuntu, definitely use a current version, unless you have an extremely critical reason not to
[10:50] <lkthomas> does kernel linux-image-3.19.0-18 still under testing on 14.02 ?
[10:50] <lkthomas> how come none of my machines could boot properly under this kernel
[10:57] <fishcooker> what's preseed mean.. actually i want to make custom iso so that if new box is coming it would be install ubuntu automatically.. how to make it happen?
[10:59] <lkthomas> preseed is an installation template which "provision" your server like a stencil
[11:00] <lkthomas> fishcooker, during iso booting time, you could pointing it to a preseed config file, so you could provision millions of servers as same way
[11:05] <fishcooker> is the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallServer is the good point to start.. or there is another link should i follow lkthomas?
[11:06] <lkthomas> fishcooker, preseed is not very well documented, PXE is a good way to start, we are using PXE preseed as well, but I did dig into preseed codebase and search for options that I need.
[13:30] <teward> General question: What would cause the system to say "Out of Memory" when it's got 4.3GB of free memory buffered
[13:30] <teward> and only when dovecot is trying to do things
[13:30] <TJ-> fragmentation?
[13:31] <jrwren> teward: kernel saying OOM, or a process? malloc can fail for a few reasons.
[13:33] <teward> jrwren: syslog says hostname out of memory [18855]  and there's no way to trace back
[13:33] <teward> oh, i neglected to mention the age of the server because i'd get smacked
[13:33] <teward> funny: it's EOL, and I just realized it by checking kernel version
[13:33] <teward> >.>
[13:33] <teward> someone give me a phaser, i need to vaporize some servers
[13:34] <TJ-> EOl doesn't equate to out of memory though
[13:34] <teward> no, but support in this channel does
[13:34] <teward> it's an 8.04 server :P
[13:35] <RoyK> teward: heh :D
[13:35] <RoyK> even 10.04 is EOL...
[13:35] <RoyK> shouldn't get out of memory anyway, though
[13:35] <RoyK> but still - perhaps time to upgrade it to get some fixes? ;)
[13:35] <teward> probably
[13:35] <TJ-> dovecot was process 18855 ?
[13:35] <lordievader> teward: Heh, we have one of those too... It has been up for replacement for years...
[13:35] <teward> TJ-: couldn't tell, had to halt the system to unstick SSH
[13:36] <RoyK> teward: that's a definite OOM
[13:36] <RoyK> but the kernel log should show
[13:36] <teward> RoyK: monitoring says it had more memory
[13:36] <RoyK> anyway - upgrade time!
[13:36] <teward> RoyK: kernel log is syslog?
[13:36] <teward> or elsewhere
[13:37] <RoyK> teward: don't remember log locations on hardy - either syslog or kern.log
[13:38] <teward> well there's nothing in kern.log indicating a kernel level OOM
[13:38] <teward> which makes sense since the VMware tools installed here responded and gracefully halted the system
[13:38]  * teward wonders if it's just Dovecot running out of its own memory
[13:38] <RoyK> but then, the system hasn't been updated for 4+ years, so some bugs may have been fixed after that ;)
[13:38] <teward> 'cause the OOM killer would've started killing things, no?
[13:39] <teward> RoyK: oh, definitely, tell that to the ancient python scripts running here though
[13:39] <RoyK> the OOM killer sometimes saves the day, but just sometimes
[13:40] <teward> RoyK: this is what i don't get, vSphere shows that the memory consumption data relayed by VMware tools was under a gigabite, including the cache bits that LInux does
[13:40] <teward> so i'm not sure at ALL why it failed and hung up
[13:40] <RoyK> and I beleive the OOM killer has been improved a bit those seven years
[13:40] <RoyK> anyway - if this is under vmware - why didn't you bring up the console?
[13:42] <teward> 'cause my access creds don't give me a lot of access unfortunately
[13:42] <teward> start/stop/restart and basic stats
[13:43] <teward> my standard access creds anyways
[13:43]  * teward yawns
[13:43] <teward> what we need is an overhaul here...
[13:43] <RoyK> if it happens repeatedly, you could setup a network console...
[13:45] <teward> i'm considering it
[13:45] <teward> my guess though is that it's got a bug somewhere
[13:45] <RoyK> but probably better to just setup a new VM with 14.04 and migrate the config
[13:46] <RoyK> I wouldn't dare having something that old connected to a network
[13:49] <TJ-> If it's PAE then even if the system has 4.3GB free, each process can only use a maximum of 2GB or 3GB depending on the kernel CONFIG_VMSPLIT_3G
[13:52] <teward> migration of the config isn't the issue RoyK
[13:52] <teward> migration of the custom inhouse software is
[13:53] <TJ-> 14.04 host with a 8.04 chroot :)
[13:53] <teward> lol
[13:53] <RoyK> teward: don't you have the source?
[13:54] <teward> it's all deprecated python
[13:54] <teward> so no
[13:54] <RoyK> *that* deprecated?
[13:54] <lordievader> Python 1.x?
[13:55] <RoyK> hihi
[13:56] <jrwren> teward: internal app?
[14:06] <patdk-wk> why do you think it's a OOM?
[14:06] <patdk-wk> what is the exact log line?
[14:07] <patdk-wk> cause it sounds like a dovecot log line, out of memory, that is normal, cause each dovecot thread has it's own limit set, normally around 256megs
[14:07] <patdk-wk> and increasing it from defaults, is up to you, via dovecot config documentation
[14:07] <patdk-wk> the larger the mailbox, the more memory it will need to index the messages
[14:08] <patdk-wk> and then more if your using compression, or searching and other features
[14:08] <RoyK> patdk-wk: his sshd hung too
[14:08] <patdk-wk> ah, didn't see that in the text wall
[14:09] <patdk-wk> it wasn't perhaps, went readonly filesystem?
[14:09] <patdk-wk> ssh will stop responding if that happens, sometimes, depending on how the login is configured, due to logs and stuff unable to write
[14:10] <RoyK> patdk-wk: never seen ssh hang because of that...
[14:11] <patdk-wk> I have, can't remember exactly why
[14:13] <TJ-> I thibk that was back when /var/run/ was not a tmpfs on /run/, if /var/ file-system went read-only, sshd had no write access to /var/run/sshd/
[14:15] <patdk-wk> I think the issue was, unable to fork
[14:15] <patdk-wk> due to the system being overloaded due to webhits, or other things, just backing up due to not able to process
[14:16] <TJ-> I've had the issue I described, many years ago
[14:17] <patdk-wk> I'm sure I had that also, but I know I've had the issue on 12.04, and that uses /run on tmpfs
[14:17] <patdk-wk> but I'm not saying my issue isn't specific to how I have things configured
[14:17]  * TJ- nods
[14:25] <caribou> smoser: FYI, I won't be able to attend today's meeting. Nothing particular to bring up anyway
[14:27] <smoser> k
[14:36] <teward> jrgifford: yep, internal
[14:36] <teward> patdk-lap: quite literally, in syslog: hostname out of memory [18855]
[14:36] <teward> and a timestamp before it
[14:37] <teward> RoyK: I figured out the SSHd hang
[14:37] <teward> that was a VMware glitch
[14:37] <teward> (somehow the vNIC got disconnected from the vSwitch, the restart reloaded the vNIC)
[14:40] <RoyK> teward: strange - never seen that on vmware
[14:40] <RoyK> seen it on hyper-v, though - far more there (that was h-v v1)
[14:42] <patdk-wk> teward, seen that many times :(
[14:42] <patdk-wk> it's always pisses me off
[14:43] <teward> patdk-wk: which, that syslog line?
[14:43] <teward> RoyK: there was a maintenance option changed by the other guy that caused a momentary blip
[14:43] <teward> that one vNIC never reconnected
[14:43] <teward> happened once before here
[14:44] <RoyK> ok
[14:44] <teward> that's why SSH hung - because right as it prompted for PW that change happened
[14:44] <teward> so *kablooey&
[14:44] <RoyK> teward: is the software really bound to run on python 2.5? I mean - 2.7 isn't that big a difference, is it?
[14:45] <patdk-wk> no, the vnic
[14:45] <teward> RoyK: i can't get approval to test
[14:45] <teward> patdk-wk: ah
[14:45] <patdk-wk> has happened about 10times for me, in the last two years
[14:45] <patdk-wk> out of around 1400 vm's
[14:45] <teward> patdk-wk: yeah things randomly asplode :/
[14:45] <teward> meh
[14:45] <patdk-wk> the syslog line, is odd
[14:45] <patdk-wk> no program name
[14:45] <patdk-wk> it should atleast say, kernel: on it
[14:46] <teward> patdk-wk: indeed, but is it really a kernel OOM error?  It doesn't sound it since the resource graph showed only about 500MB used out of 4.5GB available
[14:46] <teward> taking caches into account of course
[14:46] <patdk-wk> that out of memory, can't be from the kernel
[14:46] <teward> right
[14:46] <patdk-wk> since it's missing the kernel: line
[14:46] <patdk-wk> and the OOM is like a 50+ line report
[14:46] <RoyK> teward: there are python 2.5 PPAs
[14:46] <teward> the question is: was Dovecot triggering it
[14:46] <teward> RoyK: i have a feeling it'll work on 14.04
[14:46] <RoyK> teward: you should give your boss a dork approval
[14:46] <patdk-wk> if it was dovecot, it would say dovecot: :)
[14:46] <patdk-wk> hmm
[14:46] <teward> but i can't do anything without 5 other people's collaborative effort
[14:47] <teward> since we have to migrate email data over (dovecot), postfix configurations, SMB share configs...
[14:47] <RoyK> to insist on using software not update for over 3 years, you can't understand much
[14:47] <patdk-wk> I'm guessing it is a syslog issue
[14:47] <teward> RoyK: Believe me: If I had unlimited power i'd have burned this VM
[14:47] <teward> but eh
[14:47] <teward> i don't have time at the moment for the migration project
[14:47] <teward> patdk-wk: possibly, given this is a Hardy machine
[14:48]  * teward shrugs
[14:48] <teward> it's on the list of things I'd love to upgrade
[14:48] <patdk-wk> teward, https://communities.vmware.com/message/2280260
[14:50] <patdk-wk> same type of log entry, but on esxi hmm
[14:50] <teward> ooo so i can blame VMware this time
[14:50] <teward> patdk-wk: that's the system that VM is on
[14:50] <teward> I wonder if the VMware tools are at fault
[14:50] <teward> i could remove them...
[14:50] <jrgifford> always blame VMWare teward
[14:50] <teward> but we lose HA that way
[14:50] <teward> jrgifford: lol
[14:50] <patdk-wk> oh ya, your using older than hell tools :)
[14:50] <teward> jrgifford: always blame $random
[14:50] <teward> :P
[14:51] <teward> patdk-wk: i could always try and update the tools but that'd go badly lol
[14:51] <teward> kernel and what not
[14:51] <jrgifford> yeah, old tools will cause weird behavior, particularly if the host has upgraded throughout time.
[14:52] <jrgifford> (I'm assuming you've patched VMware at least once since Hardy was EOL...)
[14:52] <patdk-wk> ya, I backport newer tools to my ubuntu boxes
[14:52] <teward> jrgifford: i wouldn't know, i don't track the ESXi updates, that's the other guy's job :P
[14:52] <patdk-wk> but I don't even bother porting back to 10.04, and am dropping 12.04 next month
[15:11] <jvwjgames> Hi
[15:13] <jvwjgames> Hi i need help setting up multiple static ip's on multiple Routers what channel would I got to get help for that
[15:13] <teward> not here unless your routers are Ubuntu
[15:13] <jvwjgames> Is there a routing channel
[15:14] <teward> ##networking maybe, but if oyu don't know how to set static IPs on a router, you've got bigger problems
[15:14] <teward> and you likely have to set it one by one on each router
[15:14] <jvwjgames> I do but it can't set then up across multiple routers
[15:15] <jvwjgames> I*
[15:52] <teward> got a server that grinds to a halt when any operations of import are executed.  recovery runs relatively fine, but sshing in takes over 3 minutes, disk operations are slow (apt-get dist-upgrade for instance), etc.  RAM, Disks, Disk Array appear to check out, fsck returns 'clean'
[15:52] <teward> lookin for additional debug steps
[15:52] <teward> recovery mode flies
[16:26] <Seveas> teward: iotop.
[16:32] <samba35> how to clear apt-get autoremove package list becase that list has some know package need to be install which i do not want to uninstall
[16:35] <rbasak> samba35: apt-mark manual <package>
[16:36] <samba35> hmm ,there is around 100+ package
[16:36] <rbasak> or for the entire list, some variation on apt-mark showauto|xargs apt-mark manual
[16:37] <samba35> ok Thanks
[16:37] <rbasak> Though that will wipe out the usefuleness of autoremove really
[16:37] <rbasak> You might as well just not use autoremove.
[16:37] <samba35> then
[17:16] <cluelessperson> hey guys, I'm trying to install something as another user, znc --makeconf  however it's trying to write to my zachary user's home directory
[17:17] <cluelessperson> is sudo -u zncdev -s   not enough to be another user?
[17:18] <cluelessperson> whoami says I'm zncdev
[17:20] <cluelessperson> [ !! ] Writing config [/home/zachary/.znc/configs/znc.conf]... [ Unable to open file ]
[17:33] <TJ-> cluelessperson: as you can see, sudo doesn't change $HOME
[17:34] <cluelessperson> TJ-, is there a way to do so?
[17:35] <drocsid> the kernel is being held back for a minor upgrade <IP_ADDRESS> vs <IP_ADDRESS>. Anybody else have an issue with this in 14.04.02
[17:35] <drocsid> ?
[17:56] <PryMar56> boot hangs when systemd starts in Vivid-server: http://paste.ubuntu.net/11949526/
[17:57] <PryMar56> ^^ asked for help 2nd time
[18:17] <sarnold> PryMar56: no luck so far, eh? guess it's time to file a bug
[18:19] <PryMar56> sarnold, I have other installs with system-219 and the same kernel version that are seamless when system starts (no delay)
[18:19] <PryMar56> systemd starts
[18:19] <PryMar56> but its debian 8 with experimental
[19:14] <mariano_> I'm trying to learn mysql (SQL) and I'm completely new to it. I was hoping to set up a mysql server on virtualbox to play with it. Can anyone recommend a good guide on how to go about doing this?
[19:17] <sarnold> mariano_: tada :) https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/serverguide/databases.html
[19:17] <mariano_> thank you. :)
[19:17] <sarnold> mariano_: unless you need mysql for a specific reason I suggest looking at postgres instead, I like it more..
[19:20] <mariano_> I want to get into data management and analytics. I know stats, econometrics, ect, but I know nothing about data management. I'm just graduating so I was told that if I want to move up, I have to learn sql and hadoop.
[19:20] <mariano_> My professor said sql is easier to grasp and that more businesses use it.
[19:21] <darius93> do i need to do any specific changes to libvirt dhcp server within the network file to have it access the internet with public ips? The assigning of ips work, but when attempting to ping something like google.com, etc., there is no internet access.
[19:21] <darius93> I have bridge working fine with static ips, but just wondering about dhcp because i do want to be able to have that option available in the future
[19:22] <TJ-> mariano_: postgres is much closer to the enterprise class DBMS than mysql ... it emerged from what became MS SQL server
[19:23] <mariano_> Thank you TJ. I'll start reading postgreSQL and then dive into hadoop.
[19:25] <jrwren> really? I didn't know sybase was founded on ingres.
[19:26] <jrwren> TJ-: thanks for the tip, I found this and it should be an interesting read: http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2013/05/102702565-05-01-acc.pdf
[19:31] <TJ-> sorry, I was thinking at cross-purposes; I was referring to tpostgres and T/SQL - got buried in implementing some T/SQL functions in postgres recently,
[19:42] <teward> anyone know where I can report a problem with the help.landscape.canonical.com documentation?
[19:44] <jak2000> hi all
[19:45] <sarnold> teward: many of the webpages have a "report a bug on this page" link in tiny text near the bottom
[19:53] <jrwren> is midonet an OVS alternative?
[20:18] <bekks> jrwren: Whats "midonet" and whats "OVS"?
[20:25] <jrwren> midonet is something new to me, so I cannot answer. OVS is Open vSwitch.
[20:38] <teward> sarnold: it wasn't rendering that :/
[20:38] <teward> meh
[21:28] <sarnold> teward: did you find a place to report the bug?
[21:59] <abcs> Im setting up a mail server and when I send a mail using echo it bounces and looking at the log its being sent to local instead of smtp any thoughts?
[22:09] <JaguarDown> Hi all newbie here. Simple question. In order to administer my server's web pages via SFTP I've changed the permissions of /var/www directory to 775 recursively, changed owner and group to www-data, and added myself to the group www-data. (I read in a couple places this is the standard thing to do?) After a couple of kinks I am able to read/write/execute via SFTP...
[22:09] <JaguarDown> ...However I decided that maybe that "Every one else/public" only needs to "read" html so I changed permissions to 774 and suddenly at the SSH terminal I can't even CD into /var/www due to "permission denied"
[22:10] <JaguarDown> Even though my user account is in the sudo and www-data group
[22:10] <JaguarDown> groups*
[22:11] <JaguarDown> What gives?
[22:11] <tarpman> JaguarDown: execute permission is required to traverse into a directory, ie. access anything inside of it. read permission means listing the contents (but not accessing them)
[22:13] <tarpman> JaguarDown: not sure why that's hitting your user, though. did you exit your ssh session and log in again after adding your user to the group? if you run "groups" at the prompt does the output include www-data?
[22:13] <sarnold> JaguarDown: just for the record, I really dislike the data being owned by www-data, since that's the usual user account that the webserver uses when running
[22:13] <JaguarDown> yes, groups says I am in the www-data group
[22:14] <sarnold> JaguarDown: .. which means when the webserver is hacked, it has write access to all the content, which makes it insanely easy for hacks to become persistent
[22:14] <JaguarDown> Ah. I didn't really know what the standard acceptable convention was for ownership of it
[22:14] <JaguarDown> Should I just change ownership to my one and only sudo account?
[22:14] <JaguarDown> This is just a home server
[22:15] <JaguarDown> Although it is serving web pages to the internet
[22:15] <JaguarDown> I did not log out and back in again
[22:15] <teward> sarnold: nah, realized that the doc i was looking at was 'retired'
[22:16] <teward> sarnold: then realized that I can't get landscape-client to work with the custom CA that was set up
[22:16] <teward> sarnold: THEN realized the easier route is to just spend $13 for a cert
[22:16] <sarnold> JaguarDown: up to you, I'd do a different owner, but that's just my preference..
[22:16] <sarnold> teward: is that it these days? wow
[22:16] <JaguarDown> Okay I hopped out and into the SSH terminal and it works now.
[22:16] <teward> sarnold: through gandi, with Ubuntu Membership + E Rates and such, pretty cheapish for a single domain cert (landscape.domain.tld lol)
[22:16] <JaguarDown> However I didn't understand what you just told me about the www-data user. I will probably change it to myself.
[22:17] <JaguarDown> Or something other than www-data
[22:17] <dasjoe> teward: you can still get free certs from StartSSL
[22:17] <sarnold> JaguarDown: for me, I'd be content to use my user account to own it; for shared-with-someone-else I'd prbably make a new 'www' account or something
[22:18] <dasjoe> Although revoking them will cost
[22:18] <JaguarDown> sarnold: Okay that makes sense. I read somewhere someone used a "webmasters" group.
[22:19] <sarnold> JaguarDown: that makes sense; it's long :) but makes sense
[22:19] <JaguarDown> Cool well turns out my main problem was logging out and in. Thanks.
[22:19] <teward> dasjoe: true on both cases, but the StartSSL CA certs are a little more ambiguousish
[22:19] <teward> :/
[22:20] <dasjoe> teward: I'm waiting for let's encrypt to become available, then I'll have to evaluate what's the best way for me to proceed
[22:21] <teward> mmm
[22:21] <teward> well my issue is that I just need it for landscape-server / landscape-client.  What landscape-client does NOT want to do is accept the custom CA certificate
[22:36] <JaguarDown> This is probably not the best location to ask this but what do people generally do when editing html files via SFTP to be served by apache2? Do they simply edit the files via SFTP in their favorite editor and save or do they do all editing on their local machine and then upload via SFTP when they're done?
[22:37] <sarnold> JaguarDown: rsync <3  :)
[22:38] <dasjoe> Slightly related: https://xkcd.com/378/
[22:38] <sarnold> dasjoe: hehhe :)
[22:44] <JaguarDown> sarnold: cool!
[22:45] <JaguarDown> dasjoe: favorited :)
[22:51] <sarnold> JaguarDown: one note with rsync, it's quite picky about the last '/' in directory names. it'd be worth fiddling around with a few permutations of rsync commands on test data before you really start using it
[22:52] <sarnold> JaguarDown: e.g. rsync -avz source/ destination/  vs rsync -avz source destination  vs rsync -avz source destination/  vs rsync -avz source/ destination  -- once you've seen it a few times you'll be fine :)
[22:54] <JaguarDown> sarnold: Thanks! That sounds like a promising proposition, I will definitely be giving it a go. Sounds like it could greatly streamline things.
[22:54] <sarnold> yes :)
[22:56] <JaguarDown> While we are on the subject, as the default apache2 config stands, if I want to place an image on my page and store it on the webserver does that image have to be stored under the "/var/www/html" directory or can the website see it if it's under, say, /var/www/images
[22:57] <JaguarDown> Sorry I am currently pretty ignorant to all of the webserver and web pages stuff.
[22:57] <JaguarDown> I currently have an image in /var/www/html/images and it's working fine
[22:57] <sarnold> I'm sure it's doable, but I'm not sure what you'd need to do to make it work
[22:58] <JaguarDown> The thing is the way i have it it causes an index to be available and I would prefer not to do that.
[22:58] <JaguarDown> By index I mean you can visit the folder via the website address
[22:59] <sarnold> you can turn that off with some other directives..
[22:59] <abcs> Im setting up a mail server using postfixand when i do echo "test from mail server to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>| mail -s "test"<EMAIL_ADDRESS>the recipient is not getting the mail. im not getting any errors in var/log/mail.err and my mail.log is showing its going through postfix/pickup /postfix/cleanup postfix/qmgr postfix/local then bouncing because its not a user any idea why its not
[22:59] <abcs> going to postfix/smtp but going to postfix/local
[23:00] <sarnold> JaguarDown: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/mod_autoindex.html   for ubuntu 14.04 LTS and newer
[23:00] <JaguarDown> sarnold: thanks
[23:01] <sarnold> abcs: is your postfix configured to accept mail for example2.com?
[23:02] <abcs> sarnold: no I don't want postfix to accept that mail I want to send it to someone elses mail account
[23:03]  * JaguarDown is now away - Reason :
[23:05] <abcs> Im trying to test if the mail server is set up correctly to send mail out to a relay host if theres a different way to test that i can do that
[23:06] <sarnold> abcs: i'd next try doing things by hand: host -t mx example2.com, nc <host1> smtp ... EHLO sarnold MAIL FROM: RCPT TO:  ....
[23:12] <abcs> host: couldnt get address for 'nc': not found returned
[23:13] <sarnold> two options.. either your recipient has screwed up their dns records, or your dns setup is broken
[23:15] <cryptodan_laptop> http://mxtoolbox.com is a good site for testing mail servers outside your network
[23:15] <abcs> the dns is hosted at godaddy i wouldnt think that would be the case i can send a recieve email from windows desktop not routed through the mail server
[23:15] <sarnold> I thuoght you were trying to debug sending?
[23:15] <abcs> i am
[23:15] <abcs> from post fix which i am currenly setting up
[23:16] <abcs> at the moment the email is routed through outlook that goes directly to godaddy
[23:16] <abcs> I need a mail server to relay it first
[23:16] <sarnold> cryptodan_laptop: nice!
[23:17] <abcs> I can send email back and forth on localhost but when I try to send it somewhere where the destination is not local it bounces
[23:18] <cryptodan_laptop> to verify your dns has propagated check here https://www.whatsmydns.net/
[23:20] <abcs> the domain is propageted, its been in use for 10 years
[23:21] <cryptodan_laptop> those two sites have helped me solve many issues with my own dns


[01:51] <io> gotta love those people who need to get the last word all the time
[02:20]  * LjL hides
[12:06] <bazhang> * ChanServ removes channel operator status from Private_User
[12:06] <bazhang> new op?
[12:08] <Myrtti> no, Pricey mistabbing
[12:08] <bazhang> aww ok
[12:09] <Pricey> Myrtti: I intended to do that.
[12:09] <Myrtti> of course you did, dear
[16:38] <tonyyarusso> I definitely read that as mis-stabbing instead of mis-tabbing...much more entertaining.
[16:39] <LjL> me2
[18:28] <bazhang> lindows!
[18:33] <genii> bazhang: I'm *STILL* waiting for this to ship: http://www.mslinux.org/
[18:34] <bazhang> genii, ha!
[18:34] <genii> Can't say they don't have a sense of humour at least :)
 I'm in the running for Orcle Linux but they haven't emailed me yet.
[18:39] <bazhang> I thought oracle was solaris
[18:40] <genii> I thought they stopped with the Solaris anyhow.
[18:46] <jbroome> OEL
[19:09] <Pici> from the sfdisk manpage: BUGS There are too many options.
[19:10] <LjL> Pici: maybe the same guy wrote it who did GNOME
[19:10] <Pici> It has nothing on the number of options in rsync.
[19:13] <bazhang> got him in PM
[19:13] <Pici> okay
[19:13] <Pici> good luck
[19:14] <bazhang> "u mad bro"
[19:14] <ikonia> I'm fuming that he can't burn a cd....
[19:14] <k1l_> yes me mad


[01:23] <ahoneybun> balloons, I'll being using your wonderful N7 for a event the next day as well, if that is ok with you
[01:24] <ahoneybun> I'll send it back at you right after that if you wish