[01:51] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am not at a place where I can test on 20.10 right now. Being broken on 20.04 is fine if it works on 20.10 (where it was made to).
[01:52] <Eickmeyer[m]> Honestly, I haven't tested it yet.
[01:52] <OvenWerks> I need to set those flags on my set up and see if that affects my build I guess. I can add them one at a time.
[01:52] <OvenWerks> At least one person has built and is using it though (aside from me)
[01:54] <OvenWerks> I guess it could be jack... but the api shouldn't have changed that much. My use of it is pretty slim.
[01:54]  * OvenWerks knowledge has expanded some too though....
[01:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> We can override the build flags if you can figure out which one is problematic.
[01:55] <OvenWerks> I do have one fix I want done in Ardour, then I can try some things.
[01:56] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: while it would be nice to get it into G it is not top importance.
[01:57] <OvenWerks> means "I will see what I can do"
[01:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Yeah, no worries. At least we have most of the packaging done.
[01:58]  * OvenWerks has spent half the day setting a stage up for Sunday.... tomorrow too. The room has been turned 90 degrees...
[01:59] <OvenWerks> At least the stage now has built in power
[01:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh wow.
[01:59] <OvenWerks> The signals to stage have to go through isolators because there are two power entrances to the building
[02:00] <OvenWerks> The grounds are not close to each other.
[02:00] <Eickmeyer[m]> Oh yeah. I've dealt with that. Hum central.
[02:01] <OvenWerks> The FOH speaker/amps have no power transformer (class D) and if the signal is off DC wise one part of the amp works harder than the other. We lost one that way when we first installed. (warranties are great :)
[02:02] <OvenWerks> we have gone a few years with isolators in line with no troubles
[02:03] <OvenWerks> It just means when things get redone someone who knows what those boxen are for has to be there
[02:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, or someone who can figure it out.
[02:05] <OvenWerks> ;)
[02:06] <OvenWerks> so I will be there tomorrow too... we be running mics, monitors and guitar directs under the stage
[02:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> So much fun. :)
[02:06] <OvenWerks> so much less stage clutter.
[02:07] <OvenWerks> Got to find out how much stuff got moved to Paul's house for video feed the last few months.
 Alright who do i have to smack
 *smacks Eickmeyer*
[14:54] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: booted to groovy. doing update and it says it is updating "Ardour5" (5.12 -> 6.0) does the package name change?
[14:59] <OvenWerks> Is the new package actually called "Ardour6" has the .desktop file been changed?
[15:00]  * OvenWerks guesses he will find out.... almost soon after 542 updates are done
[15:33]  * OvenWerks needs glasses... arm64 looks too much like amd64
[15:35] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: the jack not running dialog works :)
[15:36] <OvenWerks> I have the real time warning? wow
[15:43] <OvenWerks> ardour 6 startup shows: LADSPA: cannot load module "/usr/lib/ladspa/autotalent.so" (/usr/lib/ladspa/autotalent.so: undefined symbol: __exp_finite)
[15:45] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: mcpdisp fails the same way in groovy
[15:47] <OvenWerks> if I had to guess which cflag causes this I would expect it to be: -fstack-protector-strong
[15:48] <OvenWerks> which goes well with: buffer overflow detected
[15:52] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I don't know how much c++ you know... but I think local local variables (as in local scope) would be on the stack
[15:54] <OvenWerks> It may be I need to allocate some memory for some things before it starts
[16:20] <OvenWerks> reboot
[18:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: So, Ardour's package name doesn't change, but the executable name and the desktop file do change.
[21:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Scratch that, the desktop filename did not change.


[01:04] <TurBoss> hi
[01:04] <OneM_Industries> Hi!
[01:04] <TurBoss> I have to setup 2 instances of build-slave one for each build-master 2 in this case :)
[01:05] <TurBoss> but the init script fails to start
[01:05] <TurBoss> http://dpaste.com/0TY92CN
[01:05] <TurBoss> here is the log
[01:05] <OneM_Industries> Sorry, I am new to ubuntu-server. If I could help I would.
[01:06] <TurBoss> :) thank you
[07:57] <lordievader> Good morning.
[08:06] <Seveas> o/
[08:08] <kjackal> o/
[10:46] <gabor_meszaros> hi all, I'm trying to deploy a single node openstack using cloud-install, with --use-nclxd flag but having troubles. Could you help me out a bit?
[10:48] <gabor_meszaros> logs are pastebinned here: https://pastebin.canonical.com/147920/
[10:54] <rbasak> zul may be able to help you, but he won't start his day for a while. ^^
[10:56] <gabor_meszaros> rbasak: ty, I'll still be around for a while
[15:01] <jamespage> rbasak, hmm
[15:01] <jamespage> Build system has been completely reworked and now uses erlang.mk. 3rd party plugins must be adapted to the new build system.
[15:01] <jamespage> rabbitmq 3.6.0 release...
[15:01] <jamespage> I've done latest 3.5.7 release OK
[15:01] <jamespage> but that might be to big a bite for me before FF
[15:46] <rbasak> jamespage: for a rabbitmq merge?
[15:46] <rbasak> I didn't realise you were working on that. Thanks!
[15:49] <jamespage> rbasak, no merge - I maintain in debian ;-)
[15:50] <rbasak> Ah
[15:56] <pmatulis> tarpman: thanks for driving bug 1532648
[16:13] <tarpman> pmatulis: :)
[16:15] <extrememist><PHONE_NUMBER>1001100010000001111001011011110111010100100000011011010110000101101110011000010110011101100101011001000010000001110100011011110010000001100100011001010110001101101111011001000110010100100000011101000110100001101001011100110010110000100000011101000110100001100101011011100010000001111001011011110111010100100000011100110110100101110010001000000111001101101000011000010110110001101100001000000111010001100101011011000110110000100000011011
[16:15] <extrememist><PHONE_NUMBER>00100000011010010110111000100000011000110110100001100001011101000010000001100001011011100110010000100000011010010010011101101100011011000010000001110100011010010111000000100000011110010110111101110101001000000011000100110000001100000101010001011000001000000011101001000100
[16:15] <extrememist> Whoops
[16:15] <extrememist> tottally didn't do that on purpose
[16:15] <extrememist> SORRY
[16:21]  * OerHeks reads octal
[16:39] <an3k> There are 10 kind of people ...
[16:47] <jelly> extrememist: I've seldom seen 7-bit ascii expressed in a 14 times expanded encoding like that
[16:48] <jelly> wait no.  9.14 times, not 14, sorry
[17:06] <rbasak> nacc: did you want your logwatch merge uploaded, or did you want to check with Debian/upstream first?
[17:15] <nacc> rbasak: i think you can go ahead and upload it
[17:15] <nacc> rbasak: sorry, thought I said that last week
[17:18] <rbasak> nacc: no worries, maybe I missed that. I'll go ahead and upload. Thanks!
[17:18] <nacc> rbasak: thank you!
[18:42] <nacc> rbasak: ping?
[18:45] <nacc> maybe someone else knows too ... so I thought rbasak mentioned to me that if a package is in a PPA, it will be used for building future packages in the same PPA? However, it doesn't seem to be working with the automated builds? https://launchpad.net/~php-ubuntu/+archive/ubuntu/php7.0/+packages specifically. phpab needs to be rebuilt so it doesn't depend on php5, which means using the new pkg-php-tools
[18:45] <nacc> (from the same PPA)
[18:52] <ikonia> you need to change the depend on the package
[18:52] <ikonia> it won't magically not depend on it any more unless you tell it not to
[18:53] <nacc> ikonia: it's a confusing log, though, it says it can't find pkg-php-tools ... which is available from the regular repos (which will fail as it's a php5 version). I can make it depend on the pkg-php-tools from my repo, but looking at the log, it doesn't even mention the PPA url?
[18:55] <ikonia> so you're not using your own machine you're using the autobuild system on laundhpad.net
[18:59] <nacc> ikonia: yeah, on my own machine, i can add the ppa to an schroot and sbuild it fine
[18:59] <nacc> ikonia: but i'm trying to publish this package on the ppa ... so that others can use the updated version
[18:59] <ikonia> nacc: that makes sense as it won't have the index file to know the packages are there
[19:01] <ikonia> my undestanding (i've not used the autobuild system for a while though) that the autobuild system would auto find packages in it's own PPA - if you're doing it on your own box though, you have to define the repo
[19:04] <nacc> ikonia: yeah, I was told something similar about the autobuild system, which is why i'm confused :) it's like the autobuild in the PPA isn't using the PPA. Even looking at the other logs in the PPA build that succeeded, it seems like no extra repositories are present ... i'll try and dig into the autobuild logs a bit more
[19:04] <ikonia> get some of the logs somewhere others can see, be interesting to see
[19:05] <nacc> can you see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/234639697/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.phpab_1.21.0-1~ppaubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz ?
[19:07] <nacc> ikonia: ok, i see the ppa in override-sources-list
[19:07] <nacc> and i guess that's what is showing up as ppa.launchpad.net in the logs
[19:07] <nacc> nm then! now to figure out why it's not pulling in pkg-php-tools
[19:07] <ikonia> this sounds silly, but can it not use it's own PPA as the gpg sigs are missing
[19:08] <ikonia> thats the first thing that stood out from those logs
[19:08] <ikonia> it can't verify the sigs
[19:09] <nacc> ikonia: hrm, that's a good point ... not sure how i'd go about resolving that
[19:09] <ikonia> I can't remember the menus
[19:09] <ikonia> but there is one where you specify the key name and I think it has to be in the PPA too
[19:10] <ikonia> or uploaded direct into your launchpad session
[19:10] <ikonia> I can't remember to be honest
[19:12] <nacc> np, i appreciate the insight
[19:25] <rbasak> nacc: looks like you tried to build phpab within just four minutes of pkg-php-tools building?
[19:25] <rbasak> You might need to give it a bit longer. There is a delay before a built package gets published in a PPA.
[19:25] <rbasak> nacc: you can retry from https://launchpad.net/~php-ubuntu/+archive/ubuntu/php7.0/+build/8872076 (the build progress/failure page)
[19:26] <nacc> rbasak: ah let me see if that's all it is
[19:26] <nacc> rbasak: hrm, locally, sbuild also fails with the PPA enabled ... so let me debug it a bit further
[19:27] <rbasak> nacc: if you can reproduce locally, try an explicit "apt-get install package=version" in that environment of what you expect. Then apt-get will give you more details of why it refuses to fulfil it.
[19:27] <rbasak> nacc: eg. "schroot -u root -c xenial-amd64" locally to enter your chroot, and then run apt-get in there.
[19:28] <nacc> rbasak: yeah, so i just tried it from within my chroot, and while the sbuild failed, apt-get install pkg-php-tools did succeed and pulled in the ppa version
[19:38] <magicalChicken> rbasak: Hey, about dovecot, it looks like we're already caught up with debian there. There is a new version upstream but the debian maintainers haven't packaged it yet, so I don't think there's a merge to be done
[19:39] <magicalChicken> rbasak: Should I try to wait until debian pulls in the new version or move on to another merge?
[19:40] <rbasak> magicalChicken: ah, looks like doko beat us to it at some point
[19:41] <magicalChicken> Were there any other merges you wanted done soon? I could try to get one done this week
[19:42] <rbasak> Looking
[19:44] <rbasak> magicalChicken: grab something from http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/merges.html please. Some items in there are in progress or extremely awkward. Others are minor
[19:45] <magicalChicken> Okay sure, thanks


[20:16] <milleja46> can someone tell me how I add another person as a team administrator to a team I just created?
[20:18] <milleja46> nevermind figured it out
[20:30] <milleja46> hey can someone help me? a friend and I just started up a team, but he can't seem to change his project's maintainer to the team, is there some odd bug about it to not allow this?
[20:32] <Lasall> I guess, I can't help you but can you name the team, project and the two launchpad ids (user names)? milleja46
[20:32] <milleja46> well the team is zatri, there's my name same as on here, and his is jamesrawson628
[20:34] <milleja46> he went in there and tried changing it but couldn't find zatri when he typed it up
[20:34] <milleja46> and I have already added him as a team admin....
[20:35] <milleja46> maybe I could ask him when he gets back on irc to change to me as the maintainer then I could set it maybe...
[20:35] <Lasall> I can't find a zatri project
[20:35] <Lasall> only the team
[20:36] <milleja46> well that's the team
[20:36] <milleja46> the project is glvoxel
[20:39] <milleja46> though it is a little strange that he can't change it to the team....
[20:40] <Lasall> hm, it should work. I redirect to the launchpad admins, czajkowski ?
[20:43] <milleja46> yea, it just returns no results when he searches it up, and I try doing the same to one of my old projects(that had fallen by the wayside) and even it can't find the team on that one
[20:47] <czajkowski> milleja46: can you log a question please on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[20:47] <czajkowski> that way all the details are there
[20:47] <milleja46> ok...still odd the team doesn't come up in the search to change maintainers
[20:48] <czajkowski> milleja46: I'll have a look at the the question when it's created.
[20:50] <milleja46> czajkowski: ok it's posted
[20:51] <czajkowski> milleja46: https://launchpad.net/glvoxel project right
[20:52] <milleja46> yes
[20:53] <milleja46> czajkowski: there he is on here now ^
[20:53] <czajkowski> yes I can see that
[20:53] <Tuqz> yeah, I'm wanted?
[20:53] <czajkowski> so I'm wondering whats wrong ?
[20:53] <czajkowski> who or what should the maintainer be ?
[20:53] <milleja46> I don't know he clicked to change it but can't change it to the team which is zatri
[20:54] <Tuqz> yeah, I searched for zatri and there were no hits...
[20:54] <czajkowski> missing infor from the ticket :)
[20:54] <milleja46> o_O how did I miss adding tht to the ticket
[20:54] <czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/~zatri
[20:54] <czajkowski> Tuqz: you're the maintainer so only you can change this not me
[20:55] <Tuqz> right.
[20:55] <milleja46> that is the team
[20:55] <Tuqz> So I need to edit the maintainer to say zatri, right?
[20:55] <czajkowski> yes
[20:56] <Tuqz> But when I edit it, I search for zatri and there are no results
[20:56] <milleja46> czajkowski: I even tried a old project of mine that I don't use anymore, and it zatri doesn't come up even then
[20:56] <czajkowski> milleja46: well it's there :) I just searched :)
[20:56] <czajkowski> Tuqz: are you putting ~zatri
[20:56] <czajkowski> when you change the selection
[20:56] <milleja46> Tuqz: try again....
[20:57] <Tuqz> no, I'm not putting ~zatri
[20:57] <czajkowski> that's what I said...
[20:58] <Tuqz> no matches, whether I have ~zatri or zatri in the change maintainer box.
[20:59] <milleja46> yea same on when I try still too >_>
[20:59] <czajkowski> milleja46: you cant do it
[20:59] <czajkowski> you're not the current maintainer
[20:59] <milleja46> czajkowski: I know, but on a old project it doesn't work
[21:00] <milleja46> the name "zatri" returns no results
[21:00] <czajkowski> it'll have to wait till Monday
[21:00] <Tuqz> right
[21:00] <czajkowski> as no ops around
[21:00] <czajkowski> sorry
[21:00] <Tuqz> thats alright..
[21:01] <lifeless> uhm
[21:01] <lifeless> is zatri a team ?
[21:01] <Tuqz> yes
[21:01] <milleja46> yes
[21:02] <lifeless> so, open teams cannot be maintainers
[21:02] <Tuqz> ahh...
[21:02] <lifeless> because anyone on the internet could just join and do /anything/
[21:02] <milleja46> even if he's the team admin?
[21:02] <czajkowski> ah
[21:02] <lifeless> change it to be a moderated or restricted team and you'll be fine
[21:02] <czajkowski> lifeless: thank you
[21:02] <milleja46> how do I change it?
[21:02] <lifeless> milleja46: open teams allow anyone to join on their own
[21:03] <lifeless> milleja46: edit details
[21:03] <Tuqz> I will leave that to you milleja46.
[21:04] <milleja46> lifeless: would delegated work?
[21:04] <lifeless> no
[21:04] <lifeless> because delegated allows open subteams
[21:05] <lifeless> which would then allow someone malicious to join such an open subteam
[21:05] <milleja46> ahh
[21:05] <lifeless> and then they would have complete control over the project.
[21:05] <milleja46> I wish the team setup would tell you that :P
[21:05] <lifeless> the first thing such a malicious person could do is to change the maintainer, and then you'd be locked out.
[21:06] <lifeless> there is a wizard coming to project registration to setup an appropriate team just-in-time
[21:07] <milleja46> when should that be seen?
[21:08] <milleja46> and thanks it looks like it's fixed :D
[21:09] <czajkowski> excellent
[23:40] <latz> hi there I did some mistakes in my first package, I 've dput the working version to launchpad now. How/when will launchpad build new packages?
[23:40] <lifeless> soon as they reach the front of the queue
[23:40] <latz> oki doke
[23:41] <latz> there is no force rebuild or something like that
[23:43] <lifeless> we can rebuild builds that failed transiently, but thats not relevant if you had to change the package
[23:44] <latz> that's alright ... but now that I've dput my changes I should already see my queue when the next build will be? On the ppa page the Activity doesn't show anything for the moment ... so I guess I probably did something wrong...


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[00:21] <len-dt> Using polkit is almost too easy...
[00:24] <len-dt> With regard to changing runlevel as a user. I was able to to set up telinit to run from user space... so I can use runlevels to control what performance level I am running at.
[00:24] <len-dt> This is probably not a good idea as telinit has more function than just changing runlevel.
[00:27] <len-dt> However, it would be easy to write an application who's only job is to take user input and allow only three or four actions... changing runlevels to one of rl2-rl5.
[00:28] <len-dt> And throw away anything else... even a bash script could do that.
[00:33] <ailo> len-dt: I read your post on the mail list before, but haven't had the time to devote to US today. Did you read about Ulatencyd on another post?
[00:34] <len-dt> I have. It is hard to know what is useful for audio. What would be really helpful would be test cases.
[00:34] <len-dt> Both test cases that have lots of stress and those that are more "realistic".
[00:35] <len-dt> That would help us to find out is any of these things are really helping or needed.
[12:25] <scott-work> good morning everyone
[13:17] <len-dt> scott-work, been a while since I've seen that name here ;-)
[13:23] <knome> yeah, but he's not really on :<
[13:35] <len-dt> knome, he probably has lots of catch up to do.
[14:00] <scott-work> sorry, i'm back again
[14:01] <scott-work> i really would like to talk about blueprints this week and get them resolved and to kate (release manager) by the end of the week
[14:01] <scott-work> len-dt: would you like to head up an "OTB improvements" blueprint?
[14:01] <scott-work> i shoudl be posting to the mailnig list with a list of things i think we need to get done along with some others might might consider
[14:01] <scott-work> of course, i want people's suggestions and input as well
[14:43] <ailo> scott-work: Me and Len have been putting some work on system tuning. Mostly len, so far. And we've set up pages on the wiki for documenting both what we have now, what is possible, and lastly, what we would like to have
[14:43] <ailo> I think we should also go more deeply with package selection. Making more detailed analysis of work flows
[14:44] <ailo> Probably not a lot missing, but it would be good to document that throuroughly as well
[14:45] <ailo> scott-work: The wiki pages are still mostly empty. The three last items on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamResources
[14:46] <scott-work> ailo: that's good to hear and i agree about package selection as well
[14:47] <scott-work> ailo: shnatsel had some interesting ideas as well
[14:51] <ailo> scott-work: I think len-dt and me will go ahead and explore those things, and hopefully that will result in some good analysis of what might or might not be useful for tuning the system for better performance
[14:51] <scott-work> that would be out-f'ing-standing :)
[14:51] <ailo> I think we'll probably need a -controls application in the end. Would you agree len-dt?
[14:51] <scott-work> ailo: i was going to suggest that as well
[14:52] <scott-work> i've not been a fan of the -controls idea for a while, but it has mainly because no one seemed to be able to clearly define its purpose anymore
[14:53] <scott-work> but it sounds like we are clearly defining some purposes now
[14:53] <ailo> As len-dt suggested in hit post, I think, many things can not be done in userland. You set it, and reboot, or at least restart your session. Also, you'll want to be able to toggle things separately, since some settings only apply to some machines. A -controls application could also inform the user how each setting can help them.
[14:58] <ailo> Well, time to do some laps in the park :P
[16:12] <ailo> len-dt: I think the first thing I want to do is to finish working on kernel related docs and set up kernel builds for testing on my PPA. Get back to you when I have something up for testin/reading
[16:13] <scott-work> it looks like the kernel time will most likely assume responsiblity of the -lowlatency kernel if they can collapse some of the other kernels they are supported
[16:13] <scott-work> well, some are going to be collapsed (i.e. combined) and others are going to be dropped
[16:13] <ailo> It's probably not going to make much of an impact for anyones performance, I don't think, tweaking a few kernel options, but who knows. And I just want to learn all about it to be sure
[16:14] <ailo> scott-work: I think that's great. I do hope we can have some serious input into what configs the kernel should have though
[16:14] <scott-work> ailo: i would hope so...and i think we have time for that as well still
[16:14] <scott-work> they need to get he blueprints done this week as well, then go through the work of minimizing their supported kernels before they address ours
[16:15] <ailo> scott-work: Let's have a meeting before then?
[16:15] <scott-work> absolutely!
[16:16] <scott-work> i was hoping this weekend actually so we can finalize the blueprints and some other ideas/tasks
[16:16]  * micahg waves to scott-work
[16:16] <scott-work> ailo: len-dt:  i don't know if you know about my blog, it has several noted items from UDS including things related to studio
[16:16] <ailo> scott-work: Haven't read it for a while. What was the link again? ;P
[16:17] <scott-work> micahg: hi!  i reversed my position, after we work through bluepritns i want to help with syncing and FTBFS as soon as possible to get the exposure
[16:17]  * scott-work is sorry for being wishy-washy and this subject micahg, but has his mind made up very firmly now
[16:17] <scott-work> ailo: http://dullass.blogspot.com/
[16:21] <scott-work> s/and this subject/on this subject
[16:23] <scott-work> heh, micahg left already :/
[16:23] <knome> hah:)
[16:23] <knome> you want to fail to build from source?
[16:23] <scott-work> knome: i want to learn
[16:23] <scott-work> ;)
[16:23] <knome> ;)
[16:24] <scott-work> ailo and len-dt :  feel free to leave comments in the blog, don't be shy :P
[16:24] <knome> scott-work, so, where's the blog articles for days 3-5 ?
[16:25] <scott-work> i'm still working on them :P  i'm ADHD and sometimes have trouble keeping my attention on certain things
[16:25] <scott-work> i have notes from all of it and i will be finishing them up in the next two days
[16:26] <ailo> scott-work: You only have one letter combination? I have all of them
[16:26] <knome> scott-work, diagnosed ADHD, or non-literallt ADHD?
[16:27] <knome> *non-literally
[16:34] <scott-work> knome: literally, i have been diagnosed and i am taking adderall
[16:35] <scott-work> i still get a little flaky by getting distracted and hyper at times (i'm kinda feeling that now)
[16:35] <knome> scott-work, okay, good to know :)
[16:35] <scott-work> but i can sustain much better concentration in the short term though
[16:35] <scott-work> before i HAD to also follow all the conversatiosn that others are having around me as well as my own conversation
[16:36] <knome> well i do that too...
[18:53] <scott-work> micahg: i see you are back in channel
[18:53] <micahg> well, about to go off for a few hours :)
[19:35] <astraljava> scott-work: You? Hyper?!
[19:35] <scott-work> hehe, sometimes very badly
[19:36] <scott-work> astraljava: sometimes is because very, very obvious because i can talk really, really fast at times and it might seem that i don't breath between paragraph-like sentences
[19:37] <astraljava> I will have to travel to Texas to witness that. :D
[19:40] <scott-work> we'd be glad to have you stay at the house if you did
[19:42] <astraljava> We have a few employees in the States, so I may take you up on that offer. :D
[19:44] <scott-work> that would be super cool :)
[19:44] <astraljava> Indeed it would. I haven't been further into your continent than... Atlanta. :)
[19:45] <astraljava> One of them lives and works in Colorado. That's at least where I'd wanna go. It's not TOO far to hop over to your place from there. :)
[19:46] <astraljava> Fortunately our company is very pro-travelling.
[20:18] <len-dt> ailo, controls or setup or config or whatever. Ya. any performance mode thing needs a config app so that the user can make it work for their particular use. Things like wireless or not. Mysql or not... are things atht come to mind.
[20:21] <astraljava> Not even just wireless, but networking overall.
[20:22] <len-dt> scott-work, ailo while a lot of things are out of userland, polkit is easy to use to get around that. The easiest and most secure method would be to use runlevels. That way up to 4 different setups can be defined. I have been able to make strong changes without either booting or relogging in.
[20:26] <len-dt> astraljava, exactly.
[20:27] <astraljava> I was reminded again at work today how vulnerable even modern unices are to networking problems.
[20:28] <astraljava> UI freezes totally, even on supposedly well-working multitasking OS.
[20:28] <astraljava> ...on a dual-core machine.
[20:28] <knome> ..with memory built from stardust?
[20:28] <len-dt> astraljava, the thing with networking is things like qmidinet and qmidicontrol (I think I got it right) and for that matter lyricue (which also uses mysql :-P
[20:29] <astraljava> knome: Have you been inhaling something you shouldn't, again?
[20:29] <astraljava> len-dt: gah!
[20:30] <astraljava> But okay, I get the point.
[20:30] <knome> not admitting anything.
[20:30] <len-dt> astraljava, breathing you mean like city air?
[20:30] <astraljava> Well, he lives considerably closer to downtown than I do.
[20:31] <knome> though you have that dust coming in all the time
[20:31] <knome> i live considerable closer to a (small) forest too
[20:31] <knome> s/e/y
[20:31] <len-dt> Where we used to live downtown had the cleaner air and the wind used to blow the crap up the valley to the farmland.
[20:34] <astraljava> Yeah I guess that's true. There are many more buses going just underneath my balcony than anywhere near his apartment.
[20:34] <knome> so it's probably just too clean air i'm breathing... or the methane :|
[20:34] <astraljava> Right, that's it.
[20:35] <astraljava> No wonder you married your wife, it's because of her profession. :D
[20:35] <knome> ;]
[20:35] <len-dt> astraljava, it is unlikey that someone would use lyricue along with audio applications, but quite possible that a musician would have lyricue and audio apps on the same machine. lyricue being a video app that displays video and lyrics.
[20:35] <knome> yeah, good to have backup if i faint of my own smell
[20:36] <astraljava> len-dt: Right, I can understand that.
[20:36] <astraljava> But then there are all those other runlevels.
[20:36] <astraljava> Like you said already.
[20:37] <len-dt> Yup, mysql seems to be runlevel friendly, NetMan is not. But it does handle being shutoff ok.
[20:38] <len-dt> And NM could be shut off (and turned on) by a runlevel friendly upstart script.
[20:44] <len-dt> astraljava, I would like to do as much as I can that is upstart friendly (or driven) as that seems to be the future of things. Any of the upstart *.conf can have a *.override file that takes it's place without deleting the original... very handy. Also the override file does nothing if there is no conf file to match... also handy as it means if we (or the user) tries to shut off something not installed there is no problem.
[20:49] <astraljava> len-dt: Sounds good indeed.
[21:00] <scott-work> i wonder how regular ubuntu devs would view us considering runlevels
[21:01] <len-dt> scott-work, should be ok. I think RL2 should be the same as vanilla ubuntu and there should always be a path back to that.
[21:02] <scott-work> len-dt: that's good to know. i now very little about runleves so i worry about such things
[21:02] <scott-work> len-dt: do you think you would be up to leading a blueprint for OTB performance improvements?
[21:03] <len-dt> scott-work, right now rl 3,4 and 5 are the same as rl2. That is not used.
[21:03] <len-dt> scott-work, OTB?
[21:03] <scott-work> out of the box
[21:03] <scott-work> or Out of The Box :P
[21:04] <len-dt> scott-work, I can try. You mean how the setup is at install or live DVD?
[21:04] <scott-work> well, kinda
[21:04] <scott-work> there isn't too much pressure to it, to be honest
[21:05] <scott-work> do you know much about blueprints?
[21:05] <scott-work> len-dt: ^^^
[21:05] <len-dt> scott-work, I get the idea of what they are for... but not much on the formal language of them.
[21:06] <scott-work> formal language is minor aspect, don't worry about that
[21:06] <scott-work> so, to show our intended work for the cycle we make blueprints and the work items within the blueprints
[21:06] <scott-work> this one might have only a few generalized work items like "explore possible ways to improve OOTB experience" and "implement what we can"
[21:06] <len-dt> So I can come up with a doc, which you will vet and post?
[21:07] <scott-work> or might be more details about which options we might try and such
[21:07] <scott-work> yeah, i would then vet it then it needs to go up the chain to the release manager who would approve it and make it part of our formal "ubuntu studio for q cycle blueprint", which acts like a header blueprint
[21:08] <scott-work> you don't get in trouble if not everything is completed or if things don't work out and there is nothing we can do to improve the OOTB experience
[21:08] <scott-work> but i can't keep up with every blueprint and make sure progress is going on, especially when i'm not very familiar with some of the things you are talking about
[21:09] <len-dt> scott-work, ok. There are two streams of thought with this, one that with a modern system there is performance to spare anyway and the other which is we can do much better with tweaks.
[21:09] <scott-work> len-dt: well, if we can reasonably and safely make tweaks and yield appreciable improvement, i say we do it
[21:09] <scott-work> or at least consider it
[21:10] <len-dt> scott-work, I know I can make magrinal machines better (like my netbook for example), but they are less noticable on a good machine.
[21:10] <len-dt> s/magrinal/marginal/
[21:10] <scott-work> len-dt: that might be a good work item - to verify which improvements yield good results on which machines
[21:10] <scott-work> btw, https://help.launchpad.net/Blueprint for those who want to learn more about blueprints
[21:11] <len-dt> scott-work, thanks.
[21:11] <scott-work> so, we could say one work item is to brainstorm which tweaks might work
[21:11] <scott-work> another to test them
[21:11] <scott-work> another to make a decision which to explore for reals
[21:11] <scott-work> another to implement one (or several)
[21:11] <scott-work> anotehr to validate the improvements
[21:12] <scott-work> (oh, i suppose one might be to make a baseline reading earlier)
[21:12] <len-dt> Yes, scott-work I have already found a tweak on one of the linux audio/music pages that does not work as stated in ubuntu.
[21:12] <scott-work> i think generally each work item is suppose to be a day or three of worth of work
[21:13] <ailo> To get to the bottow with all of the system configs, we need much more time than that.
[21:14] <len-dt> scott-work, right now I am trying to gather info on what tweaks others have tried and to see if they work for me.
[21:14] <scott-work> ailo:  more time than...?
[21:14] <ailo> For each work item
[21:14] <scott-work> oh, right...i understand :)
[21:14] <len-dt> It looks like I will need to at the very least get more memory just for testing.
[21:14] <scott-work> the documentation will be the same ailo
[21:15] <scott-work> user documentation, developer documentation, testing docuementation, all that stuff
[21:15] <ailo> len-dt: Remember that I have 5 machines or more, so we could just as well do a team effort on the testing.
[21:15] <scott-work> len-dt: we set the goals/work items for the blueprint, if you feel that we will only get through testing and making a suggestion for next cycle then that is okay
[21:16] <scott-work> len-dt: we should just set a reasonable goal for Quantal (including some buffer probably) and try to get that done
[21:16] <len-dt> scott-work, there are some things that have already been proven to work for some people, I would like to include those. I will be using some of them in my machine anyway.
[21:16] <astraljava> I get your point, BUT IT'S THE RELEASE AFTER LTS!! :D
[21:17] <scott-work> astraljava: LOL, yeah i know, many people want to go crazy!  but i don't want to scare len away :P
[21:18] <scott-work> len-dt: that's fine, and keep in mind that i'll help you with developing the work items if you want
[21:18] <len-dt> astraljava, while this may have been LTS, I think we are really part way into the vision of where we want to go at this time.
[21:18] <astraljava> scott-work: You'll scare him away by putting on restraints. :D
[21:18] <len-dt> astraljava, scott-work :-)
[21:18] <astraljava> len-dt: No, you misunderstood me. I fully support you! :)
[21:18] <astraljava> Let's rock! :D
[21:19] <len-dt> astraljava, just laughing along with you
[21:19] <astraljava> Good. :)
[21:20] <scott-work> hehe, good point astraljava  :)
[21:20] <scott-work> i took it the other way :P
[21:21] <scott-work> len-dt: but seriously, the work items are really another minor issue, but it would be very helpful to have you (who understands these items more than i) driving this blueprint
[21:21] <scott-work> or ailo could do it, or you both could
[21:21] <scott-work> i just wanted someone else but me (who doesn't have time to learn all the stuff you already are working on) to drive the blueprint
[21:22] <scott-work> i can still make the blueprint and with your help fill int he work items
[21:22] <len-dt> scott-work, astraljava I am thinking that even though my workflow app is not very polished, I will use it to set up rl based performance modes. The gui is throw away (or not) but the mode switching is pretty basic. The config for it can be more of the same or use the US controls framework if someone feels more comfortable working with that.
[21:23] <scott-work> oh, one reason i haven't been on much lately is not only because i was at UDS but also because my old laptop died
[21:23] <len-dt> I will try to come up with an overall document in the next few days.
[21:23] <scott-work> i am unsure what i am going to set up at the house
[21:23] <scott-work> len-dt: don't stress about getting final form or even doing a blueprint at this point, we have until early next week to get it done
[21:23] <len-dt> scott-work, netbooks are cheap... and do surprisingly well.
[21:24] <scott-work> we can brainstorm about what things we want to explore and then start parsing into steps and then get that into the blueprint
[21:24] <scott-work> there will also be other blueprints, like some of the documentation and live-dvd fixes/improvements
[21:24] <len-dt> anyway, I am off for a bit... it's about 2:30 time to go get kids.
[21:24] <scott-work> i am leaving for home as well
[21:25] <ailo> I'm fine with len-dt doing the blueprints. I'm still on documenting kernel configs, and will probably continue with that and the wiki for the rest of the week. I will however think about what we could bring up at the next meeting, when we discuss the next cycle
[21:27] <ailo> If we are to make good use of each others machines for testing, I believe documentation will be essential, so that would be the best place to start
[21:32] <astraljava> I was just recently shown a link to some test automation, but haven't had a chance to check it out yet.
[21:33] <ailo> astraljava: Standard type of testing? Give us a link if you find it
[21:33] <ailo> I mean standard, like what you would do for regular Ubuntu, not multimedia
[21:35] <astraljava> ailo: I'll look into it and see how it could be utilized.
[21:35] <astraljava> But not now, I have to sleep.
[21:36] <ailo> sweat sheep
[21:36] <ailo> sweet*
[21:37] <astraljava> No I don't do sheep, sweaty or not. That's jussi's territory.
[21:39] <ailo> Have a good restful night of sleep then
[21:44] <knome> nighty astraljava
[21:59] <len-dt> Who is good to talk to about security matters? I want to use pkexec to run telinit. Should I do so directly? As far as I know telinit can tell upstart to reread it's configuration (telinit q) or restart (telinit u) Which while problematical (upstart doesn't handle this well) doesn't seem to be a security problem
[22:01] <len-dt> telinit 0 or 6 the user already can do (reboot or halt). that leaves telinit s or S which goes to single user mode.
[22:03] <len-dt> hmm, single user as root I think, sounds bad, but in ubuntu anyone can get there with a reboot to recovery mode.
[22:07] <len-dt> outside of ubuntu, if the user needs to login even in recovery mode, then this will be true in RL1 as well.
[22:07] <len-dt> Any holes in my thinking?
[22:30] <ailo> single user as root sounds bad to me
[22:31] <len-dt> I think it is safer than running telinit from a sh script which filters the command line variables. I am not sure there are not combinations that might tell the script to do something nasty.
[22:32] <len-dt> ailo, Ya, it sounds bad. Ubuntu's fault that, most distros require a password to get into a console in runlevel 1.
[22:33] <len-dt> Those that use sudo with no root password allow user login others require the root password.
[22:36] <ailo> But even so, you don't log in as root for user tasks. Only to change the system or doing some monitoring you are unable to do as user
[22:37] <ailo> But I guess you are just exhausting all options
[22:38] <ailo> I don't know much about run levels and init scripts, so all I can offer there is to help doing some testing later on, if it becomes a valid option to try
[22:40] <len-dt> With ubuntu, if you have physical access... you are root!
[22:40] <len-dt> All you have to do is reboot to rescue mode.
[22:41] <len-dt> ailo, this is one thing I always thought was odd about ubuntu.
[22:41] <len-dt> I could never have done that with Slackware.
[22:41] <ailo> You mean it's not very secure in that sense?
[22:42] <ailo> If you have physical access, unless disks are encrypted, you can always put the disks into another machine
[22:42] <len-dt> Any system that someone has physical access to can be entered anyway. Boot from your own CD.
[22:43] <len-dt> Ya, encryption would be the only way around that.
[22:43] <ailo> I wonder if encryption works if you try booting into rescue mode, not as the user? I think it does
[22:44] <len-dt> RL 1 is pretty secure even having root access. The network is shut down so no external shells are available. I think it shuts down serial access too.
[22:44] <ailo> Well, don't really know. Only that I've had problems with some software trying to use encrypted drives belonging to my own user
[22:45] <ailo> Pretty radical thing to do, in order to get slightly better performance
[22:46] <len-dt> encrypted partitions still work because the partitions are only accessible with the key... root or not.
[22:47] <len-dt> However your point is valid. It is best to wrote a binary program that only takes input to change through RL 2 to 5.
[22:47] <len-dt> ailo, I was just feeling lazy ;-)
[22:48] <len-dt> ailo, it has been a long time since I last coded c ... I will probably have to look up each thing I do :P
[22:49] <ailo> What bugs me is that on probably most machines, you might only need one or two configs diffing from the -generic kernel in order to get full blown low latency performance (also having PAM privileges set up), but then you have this and that hardware configuration which does not work properly.
[22:50] <ailo> It's gotta be the fault of the kernel in the end
[22:50] <ailo> And all it contains
[22:50] <ailo> As we talked about, drivers and what else
[22:51] <len-dt> ailo, ya my netbook is a perfect case... wireless has to be removed and then... solid as a rock.
[22:51] <len-dt> ailo, well till memory runs out.
[22:53] <ailo> This is why I feel that the standard setup is the best default setup, where there may be a few configuration options that could never hurt and thus could also be added by default, but leaving the rest for trouble-shooting more or less
[22:53] <len-dt> ailo, I would in some ways like to double my memory and kill swap. shnatsel says that is a bad idea. I guess swap is used for hibernation
[22:54] <ailo> And for those options that should be tweakable, because they either do not do anything useful for most people, or may even do the opposite, an application would be best
[22:54] <ailo> hibernation.. now often does that work? I've had a problem with that on a lot of machines
[22:55] <ailo> But should probably not be disablel :P
[22:55] <shnatsel> len-dt: http://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-software/tales-from-responsivenessland-why-linux-feels-slow-and-how-to-fix-that
[22:55] <ailo> disabled*
[22:56] <len-dt> ailo, RL2 should always be left default anyway. shnatsel Ya I read it.
[22:57] <shnatsel> len-dt: I think you need some filesystem caches anyway
[22:57] <len-dt> shnatsel, there seems (even in the comments for that article) to be some disagreement on his aproach.
[22:57] <len-dt> caches in swap?
[22:57] <shnatsel> len-dt: yeah I agree it needs further research
[22:57] <shnatsel> len-dt: there are no caches in swap
[22:58] <shnatsel> len-dt: linux is not stupid
[22:58] <len-dt> I thought not.
[22:58] <shnatsel> len-dt: so either use zcache or swap to zram, and the latter is preferable because it's used only when you're really running out of ram if you've decreased swappiness
[22:59] <len-dt> shnatsel, with the use of zram, which I assume looks like swap to the machine, what happens then to hibernate?
[23:00] <ailo> len-dt: About those tweakable options. Since they probably don't do a lot to most people, "performance mode" does not seem appropriate to me. More like "troubleshooting mode". I wouldn't use that term, but just add the options to a audio-settings application, which might as well be a completely rewritten ubuntustudio-controls, and have that application easily accesible to the user
[23:00] <shnatsel> len-dt: I haven't tested that myself, but it's stored in RAM and it can't be swapped into itself, so the worst case is as much data as fits into zramswap being compressed and then swapped on the disk
[23:00] <len-dt> ailo,  the name doesn't matter to me.
[23:01] <shnatsel> len-dt: which is in fact faster than usual hibernation because it basically means lzop-compressing data before writing it to disk
[23:01] <shnatsel> len-dt: I'm negotiating replacing lzop with lz4 btw
[23:02] <shnatsel> lz4 is exactly the same except it uncompresses much faster
[23:02] <len-dt> shnatsel, I'm more worried about some of the data being mistakenly stored in zram instead of swap and there for vanishing when power goes.
[23:03] <shnatsel> len-dt: I believe those parts of memory are never swapped into itself
[23:04] <shnatsel> len-dt: otherwise it'd make no sense
[23:04] <len-dt> ailo, quite definitely I (personally) want to be able to switch because I want to be able to use wireless when not doing audio too.
[23:05] <len-dt> shnatsel, ok, personally I never use hibernation anyways, I always shutdown.
[23:05] <shnatsel> len-dt: I've popularized swapping to zram with http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/increased-performance-in-linux-with.html which triggered adding my scripts to repos of several distros. I've received several bug reports, but nobody complained about hibernation.
[23:05] <shnatsel> len-dt: neither do I
[23:06] <len-dt> So my questions are more for if I am helping someone out.
[23:08] <len-dt> I do want to try zram though. shnatsel and I think I will (for personal interest more than anything) try running swap-less but adding more memory. It seems to me it is not too hard turning swap on and off... well it used to be easy ;-)
[23:08] <shnatsel> len-dt: sudo swapoff -a
[23:08] <shnatsel> len-dt: sudo swapoff
[23:08] <shnatsel> one of them
[23:09] <len-dt> shnatsel, Ya, that command is still there.
[23:11] <len-dt> shnatsel, would swapoff kill zram as well?
[23:11] <shnatsel> len-dt: yes
[23:12] <shnatsel> len-dt: and it's not easy to bring it back :P
[23:12] <len-dt> shnatsel, so I would want to do swapoff _special_
[23:12] <len-dt> That is specify the partition.
[23:12] <shnatsel> len-dt: prediction: you'll get very annoyed by swapless setup because of out-of-memory kills with apps losing data.
[23:13] <shnatsel> len-dt: swapoff --help or man swapoff
[23:13] <len-dt> shnatsel, thats what I'm looking at.
[23:14] <shnatsel> len-dt: to get a taste of out-of-memory kills, press Ctrl+Alt+PrintScreen+F
[23:14] <shnatsel> len-dt: it triggers one :)
[23:14] <len-dt> shnatsel, I agree it would be bad for normal use, but If I don't have enough memory for my audio stuff to all fit in memory in the first place I think I would rather know that before I hit the record button.
[23:15] <len-dt> In other words, swap off would be a specific use only
[23:15] <shnatsel> len-dt: write a wrapper script checking the amout of memory available on app startup. I've got one for ensuring all my memory modules are in place and connected.
[23:15] <shnatsel> it runs on boot though
[23:18] <ailo> len-dt: Yes, but the switch is only helpful to a few people, so it won't be interesting to most people to use. Anyway, implementation is step 2
[23:19] <ailo> End of this day for me too. I'll be around tomorrow again
[23:19] <len-dt> ailo, GN
[23:20] <len-dt> shnatsel, I'm going to play with zram... and maybe zcache.
[23:21] <shnatsel> len-dt: zcache is not easy to set up
[23:22] <shnatsel> len-dt: to get the code I mean
[23:22] <len-dt> Ok, I'm looking through your blog just now... I'll get to that.
[23:23] <len-dt> Hard it may be, but something of use to me I think.
[23:36] <len-dt> shnatsel, The first thing for me though, is 1Gig of ram is really too small. Doing a witch hunt to see what modules/daemons/apps I can kill to get more ram space is probably counter productive. I think US wants to be an "up to date" OS. To do that I think I need to update my machines. I need at least 2G ram, but will try to end up with 4G on my desktop which is the main audio machine anyway.
[23:37] <len-dt> I think zcache is a good idea as it reserves space for cache.
[23:37] <shnatsel> len-dt: I've been hitting swapping deaths with 2Gb, but with zramswap all is fine now
[23:37] <shnatsel> len-dt: and Firefox doesn't eat up gigabytes of memory anymore
[23:38] <shnatsel> in fact it uses only 100mb for gmail while chrome uses 200mb
[23:38] <len-dt> How well does disk read/write work without cache space?
[23:38] <shnatsel> and I'm comfortable with 1Gb on my laptop too
[23:38] <shnatsel> len-dt: no idea
[23:39] <len-dt> shnatsel, so you would recommend setting up zram first.
[23:40] <len-dt> And let cache take care of itself.
[23:40] <shnatsel> len-dt: yes
[23:40] <shnatsel> len-dt: and I'm not very fond of zcache personally, though I haven't really looked into it
[23:42] <len-dt> shnatsel, is it worth using zram with the LZ1 alog. on an atom based machine?
[23:42] <shnatsel> len-dt: lzo, yes, I think so
[23:42] <shnatsel> len-dt: try and see
[23:42] <len-dt> Ok, what split would I use for 1G
[23:43] <shnatsel> len-dt: just install my zramswap-enabler
[23:43] <shnatsel> len-dt: and see if it suits you
[23:44] <len-dt> shnatsel, is there anything there not compatible with 12.04?
[23:44] <shnatsel> len-dt: already resolved :)
[23:48] <len-dt> Hmm, it depends on the generic kernel.
[23:49] <shnatsel> oh, I haven't added that kernel flavour to dependencies, sorry
[23:49] <shnatsel> what's the package name?
[23:49] <len-dt> zramswap-enabler
[23:49] <shnatsel> no, for that kernel of yours
[23:49] <len-dt> Or do you mean owr kernel.
[23:50] <len-dt> I can't look just now... I'm DL the generic kernel...
[23:55] <len-dt> Our package is linux-lowlatency-pae
[23:55] <len-dt> I don't know what the amd64 package is though.


[16:59] <foo_> So I upgraded from precise to trusty today and all my external drives now mount at /media/username/drive_label instead of /media/drive_label. I was wondering what the rationale behind this change could be.


[22:27] <Pharaoh_Atem> tvoss: I saw this today: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017-January/032580.html
[22:27] <Pharaoh_Atem> but I didn't see any mention of the APIs that Mir needs being added :(
[22:27] <Pharaoh_Atem> what's going on in re upstreaming?
[22:30] <anpok_> Pharaoh_Atem: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-xorg/lib/libinput.git/tree/debian/patches?h=ubuntu
[22:31] <Pharaoh_Atem> anpok_: are these rebased against 1.6?
[22:34] <anpok_> they look like the newest version because the functions in evdev.c are prefixed with fallback_
[22:36] <Pharaoh_Atem> anpok_: so what's holding up upstreaming from your side (you're the patch author right)?
[22:36] <anpok_> we added reading contact sizes from touchscreens
[22:37] <anpok_> but the touchscreen drives do have no consistent way of reporting it..
[22:38] <anpok_> so this patch still needs a way to scale/calibrate the reported value to some physical unit .. pixels.. mm..
[22:38] <Pharaoh_Atem> so then how is this even working with Mir?
[22:38] <Pharaoh_Atem> it seems like it's a horrible idea altogether
[22:38] <anpok_> the value is provided as is
[22:39] <Pharaoh_Atem> so the value exists, but is not any good


[20:49] <balloons> thomi, still plan to update gitg in vivid? I'm confused because it seems like a big sync to 3.14 happened, and it is in vivid
[20:49] <balloons> I do agree on gitg though, I too found it the best and used it
[20:49] <balloons> not tried the new version :-)
[20:49] <thomi> balloons: yeah, I think it got synced for vivid alreday


[10:54] <retorquere> I've just published some packages to my PPA (published 11 hours ago), but when I try to "apt update" on my test system, I get "InRelease is not valid yet (invalid for another 9h)". What should I do to fix this?
[11:03] <acheronuk> Sounds like the time on your machine is not correct
[11:13] <retorquere> Strange, but correct -- I could install from that running system before no issue, but a reboot solved it. Thanks!
[23:43] <retorquere> Can the copying of packages a la https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Copying be automated via API? I have a python package that really isn't series-dependent. Currently building separate packages for each series.


[11:57] <ikkeT> hi, anyone succesfully using write_files ?
[11:58] <ikkeT> I tried but i always fail with it
[11:58] <ikkeT> is there any documentation about it other than: http://cloudinit.readthedocs.org/en/latest/topics/examples.html
[11:58] <ikkeT> cant get this to work:
[11:59] <ikkeT> write_files:
[11:59] <ikkeT>  - content: |
[11:59] <ikkeT>
[11:59] <ikkeT>     path: /var/www/index.html
[11:59] <ikkeT>     permissions: '0755'
[17:08] <smoser> ikkeT, it will only work on something recent
[17:08] <smoser> probably like 0.7.2+
[17:08] <smoser> wont work on 12.04
[17:08] <smoser> (whihc is 0.6.3)
[17:30] <mdorman> i have an image with some cloud-init config stuff baked in to /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d  It works great when instances are launched from it.  however, if there is any user-data provided to the vm, then only the user-data stuff gets run by cloud-init, not the baked in stuff.  is there some config i need to make sure they both run?  and ideall, the baked in stuff runs first?
[18:40] <harlowja> harmw yt
[18:40] <harmw> omg
[18:40] <harmw> just, like, now
[18:40] <harmw> lol
[18:41] <harlowja> trying to advice sean more on the partitioning
[18:41] <harlowja> and wanted your current advice
[18:41] <harlowja> his setup
[18:42] <harmw> lol, well, I'm by no means a fbsd addept :) but sure, shoot
[18:42] <harlowja> his layout  /dev/vda1: unknown, /dev/vda2: vfat, /dev/vda3: ufs, /dev/vda4: unknown, /dev/vda5: ufs
[18:43] <harlowja> 1 --> boot
[18:43] <harlowja> 10:40 2 --> silly cfg things
[18:43] <harlowja> 10:40 3 --> /
[18:43] <harlowja> 10:40 4 --> swap
[18:43] <harlowja> 10:40 5 --> /home
[18:43] <harlowja> so wondering what your layout is since i'm pretty sure yours works and his likely needs changes
[18:43] <harlowja> *ignore 10:40 timestamp
[18:44] <harlowja> so i think to make it work in openstack 1 -> ramdisk like file (not sure here)
[18:44] <harlowja> 2,3,4,5 collapsed (swap removed really)
[18:56] <harlowja> harmw so i think if sean figures this out he might know who to talk to to get ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/VM-IMAGES/11.0-CURRENT/amd64/Latest/ adjusted for cloud usage
[19:00] <harlowja> which would be cool
[19:03]  * harmw reads
[19:05] <harmw> ok, i've got only vda1
[19:05] <harmw> i think i've pasted that the other day
[19:05] <harmw> /dev/vtbd0p2    1.8G    1.1G    562M    68%    /
[19:05] <harmw> and thats it
[19:06] <harmw> no swap, obviously
[19:41] <harmw> vm-images, didn't know that existed :)
[19:42] <mdorman> how can i configure something to run during the cloud-init "local" stage.  i have some items baked in to my image that i want to run before anything that comes from user-data.  the cloud-init phase runs the user-data stuff before the locallyconfigred items
[20:08] <harlowja> harmw thx, i'll let sean know about that
[20:10] <harlowja> mdorman ubuntu right?
[20:27] <mdorman> harlowja: no, centos 6 actually
[20:28] <harlowja> ah, hmmm, so if u want something to run before cloud-init local, then u need to jump into rc.d i think and make a corresponding script there
[20:35] <mdorman> well i'm fine with my stuff running in clout-init local, i'm just having a hard time figuring out how to actually configre it to run in the local phase
[20:35] <mdorman> vs. the later cloud-init stage
[20:40] <harlowja> so i guess a question is what is your stuff, additional scripts?
[20:40] <harlowja> scripts provided via userdata?
[20:41] <harlowja> *also i guess important what cloud-init version
[20:41] <harlowja> or since u baked it into the image its probably different scripts
[20:41] <harlowja> if its the baked in stuff, then u just need to make sure those scripts get ran before cloud-inits rc.d order does
[20:42] <harlowja> which i think is done by putting a dependency on your rc.d scripts to go before cloudinit
[20:42] <harlowja> or u can adjust http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/view/head:/sysvinit/redhat/cloud-init-local#L27 (and make cloud-init-local depend on your scripts running)
[20:43] <harlowja> 'Required-Start:    $local_fs $remote_fs'
[20:47] <mdorman> ok. yeah.  i mean my baked in stuff are just a couple things to set up some custom AD auth stuff, and register the vm into spacewalk.  both things we want to have happen before anything from user-data runs
[20:47] <mdorman> i really wanted to avoid having a custom rc script to do that, but sounds like that might be the only wya to make sure it goes before user-data
[20:48] <mdorman> cloud-init 0.6.3, btw
[22:23] <harlowja> mdorman sorry, just got back
[22:24] <harlowja> mdorman ya, i think thats really the only way
[22:24] <harlowja> if you are baking the images then u can do this
[22:24] <mdorman> yep, everything i'm finding is pointing toward that
[22:24] <mdorman> right.
[22:24] <mdorman> just was hoping to do everything with cloud-init, so i wouldn't have to manage a service.  but, not a big deal.
[22:25] <harlowja> cloud-init will run user-scripts, but it doesn't have the concept (afaik) of running image-based scripts, excepts u afaik to just use the system service
[22:25] <mdorman> yep
[22:25] <mdorman> thanks for the advice
[22:25] <harlowja> *which varies between operating systems


[10:18] <stub> If my charm only runs under precise with the cloud:icehouse archive, should I automatically add this repository? Or should I require the operator to explicitly specify it, in case they need to pull dependencies from elsewhere?
[11:04] <blackboxsw> hey gents
[14:51] <jcastro> heya lazyPower
[14:51] <jcastro> Do you have the URL to your bundle?
[15:40] <StoneTable> wrt charm-tools on lp, what determines when a build is made available for download? i.e., 1.2.10 is the latest in that branch, but only 1.2.9 is packaged up?
[15:41] <StoneTable> I ask because homebrew (osx) pulls 1.2.9, which doesn't support templates w/charm-create
[15:52] <marcoceppi> StoneTable: 1.2.10 should be packaged up
[15:52]  * marcoceppi checks
[15:52] <marcoceppi> StoneTable: rather, 1.3.2
[15:52] <marcoceppi> I need to update homebrew
[15:53] <StoneTable> Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place? https://launchpad.net/charm-tools/+download
[15:53] <marcoceppi> StoneTable: refresh, I just updated the 1.3.2 release
[15:53] <marcoceppi> I forgot to do so for the last two releases
[15:54] <StoneTable> Excellent, thanks! I'll update the homebrew formula and test/send pull request
[15:54] <marcoceppi> StoneTable: awesome, thank you!
[15:55] <marcoceppi> StoneTable: it should be noted, i think we added some dependencies in 1.3 series, I think that the way the forumual works this won't be a problem but I dont' have a mac to test
[15:55] <StoneTable> I noticed that. I'll test and update as needed. Thanks!
[16:05] <jcastro> asanjar, got it, bundle deploying!
[16:06] <asanjar> great
[16:23] <jcastro> mysql:
[16:23] <jcastro>       charm: "cs:trusty/mysql-1"
[16:23] <jcastro>       num_units: 1
[16:23] <jcastro>       dataset-size: 512M
[16:23] <jcastro> is that the correct formatting for dataset size?
[16:24] <marcoceppi> yes
[16:24] <jcastro> not sure if I should have " or not around the 512M
[16:24] <marcoceppi> jcastro: it will work either way, there's no special characters tehre
[16:52] <jcastro> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7794328/
[16:52] <jcastro> marcoceppi, I'm still getting that despite setting that config value
[16:52] <jcastro> any ideas?
[16:53] <marcoceppi> "Initializing buffer pool, size = 12.3G"
[16:53] <marcoceppi> that is really wrong
[16:53] <jcastro> yeah, I set the config value though
[16:54] <marcoceppi> jcastro: idk what to say
[16:54] <marcoceppi> I don't have time to debug atm
[16:55] <jcastro> I mean, I resolved it by hand
[16:55] <jcastro> I am just wondering why it didn't take with the bundle config
[16:55] <jcastro> marcoceppi, I will  buy you a bottle of something when you land your new rev of this charm
[16:55]  * marcoceppi now has incentive
[16:58] <jcastro> asanjar, hey so
[16:58] <jcastro> juju run --service hadoop-master “/usr/local/hadoop/terrasort.sh”
[16:58] <jcastro> that is both mispelled and doesn't exist on disk
[16:59] <jcastro> juju run --service hadoop-master "/var/lib/juju/agents/unit-hadoop-master-0/charm/scripts/terasort.sh"
[17:00] <jcastro> I found that on the hadoop-master node
[17:00] <jcastro> but running it tells me hadoop command not found
[17:00] <jcastro> asanjar, ^
[17:04] <jrwren> jcastro: its likely I broke that charm.
[17:04] <jrwren> jcastro: I'll post a fix
[17:09] <jrwren> jcastro: nevermind, I'm totally wrong. taht wasn't me.
[17:14] <asanjar> jcastro: lets look at it .. https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gvngjcf6moezlu53i4noau5x4ia
[17:14] <jcastro> This party is over...
[17:14] <jcastro> asanjar, go to the team hangout
[17:16] <asanjar> jcastro: I am there
[17:16] <asanjar> can u hear me
[17:21] <jcastro> lazyPower, ping
[17:55] <lazyPower> pong
[17:56] <lazyPower> https://code.launchpad.net/~lazypower/charms/bundles/oscondemo/bundle
[18:52] <lazyPower> JoshStrobl: ping
[19:17] <schegi> jamespage, online??
[19:40] <jamespage> schegi, hey!
[19:44] <jcastro> lazyPower, http://pythonhosted.org/juju-deployer/config.html
[19:44] <jcastro> that has example constraints for deployer
[19:44] <lazyPower> jcastro: thanks, looking now
[19:45] <lazyPower> jcastro: circling back - i can make another bundle with constraints as like oscon-recommended - would that be acceptable?
[19:46] <jcastro> sure
[19:48] <lazyPower> ok, i'll sneak that in the next update
[20:36] <mbruzek> Hello Jose
[20:37] <mbruzek> Are you available?
[20:37] <jose> hey mbruzek
[20:37] <jose> yeah
[20:37] <mbruzek> The chamilo charm failed to install, I saw this error in the log files. Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[20:38] <mbruzek> is that a known bug?
[20:38] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: this sounds like apt-get update not being run in the local provider template
[20:38] <mbruzek> yes
[20:38] <mbruzek> likely it is.
[20:38] <mbruzek> not getting run
[20:39] <mbruzek> You will have to bug thumper for that fix.
[20:39] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: that's isolated to local provider templates
[20:39] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: just rebuild your template or start the template, run apt-get update/ apt-get dist-upgrade, then stop it
[20:39] <mbruzek> I deleted the template today and got a new one today.
[20:40] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: did you also delete the cloud image cache?
[20:40] <mbruzek> marcoceppi, I did juju clean local
[20:40] <mbruzek> I believe that deletes the image cache now right?
[20:40] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: for s&g, can you check the timestamp on /var/cache/lxc/cloud-*/*
[20:41] <jose> mbruzek, marcoceppi: is this a known/reported bug? it's been affecting me and some other people on the local provider
[20:41] <mbruzek> Jun 30 05:29
[20:43] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: last cloud images was released the 12th and the 14th
[20:43] <marcoceppi> you have "stale" cache
[20:43] <mbruzek>  for power?
[20:43] <marcoceppi> I'll check the juju-clean plugin
[20:43] <marcoceppi> I don't know about that
[20:43] <mbruzek> sudo rm -rf /var/cache/lxc/cloud-* || true
[20:43] <mbruzek> I see that line in juju-clean
[20:43] <marcoceppi> is that ppc63el ?
[20:43] <marcoceppi> is that ppc64el ?
[20:44] <mbruzek> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 188205427 Jun 30 05:29 /var/cache/lxc/cloud-trusty/trusty-server-cloudimg-ppc64el-root.tar.gz
[20:44] <marcoceppi> yeah, it's out of date
[20:44] <marcoceppi> if you run that command does it actaully delete the image?
[20:45] <mbruzek> no...
[20:45] <marcoceppi> well, there's the problem!
[20:45] <marcoceppi> can you remove the || true and see if it errors?
[20:45] <mbruzek> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7795340/
[20:46] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: what does `sudo rm -rf /var/cache/lxc/cloud-*` say?
[20:49] <mbruzek> marcoceppi, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7795354/
[20:49] <marcoceppi> wtf, why isn't sudo rm -rf wildcard working
[20:49] <mbruzek> I can not do sudo ls -l /var/cache/lxc/cloud-*
[20:50] <mbruzek> I have to always use cloud-trusty
[20:50] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: oh, that's because of permissions
[20:50] <marcoceppi> you don't have o+x on /var/cache/lxc
[20:50] <marcoceppi> so you can't list, so rm fails
[20:50] <mbruzek> tricky.
[20:50] <marcoceppi> luuhhammeeee
[20:50] <marcoceppi> I'll put a proper patch up tonight
[20:50] <marcoceppi> for now, just delete the cloud-trusty and cloud-precise
[20:51] <marcoceppi> rebootstrap, etc
[20:51] <mbruzek> well power does not support precise so I will just add cloud-trusty for now.
[20:52] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: should we be implicit with that pathing in the rm command then?
[20:53] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: no, I'm just going to loop over all the known working series for now
[20:53] <lazyPower> ok.
[20:53] <marcoceppi> I mean, it's yes to your question
[20:53] <marcoceppi> but I'm just going to loop it
[20:53] <lazyPower> i got what you were saying :)
[20:53] <marcoceppi> I think there is a way to get all the code names on Ubuntu somehow
[20:55] <marcoceppi> ah, found it
[20:55] <mbruzek> marcoceppi, I would like to know more about that
[20:57] <mbruzek> jose I did open a bug about this here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1336353
[20:57] <_mup_> Bug #1336353: juju should run apt-get update <apt-get> <proxy> <stale> <update> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1336353>
[20:57] <jose> thanks mbruzek
[20:57] <mbruzek> jose the developers have not fixed it yet it is unassigned. I would appreciate some actual user input on this bug.
[20:58] <jose> mbruzek: I'm writing a comment right now :)
[20:58] <mbruzek> jose, I knew you would!
[20:58] <jose> :P
[21:00] <marcoceppi> mbruzek: egrep -Eio "^Suite: ([a-z]+)$" /usr/share/python-apt/templates/Ubuntu.info | awk '{print $2}' | sort | uniq
[21:01] <marcoceppi> there's probably a more condensed way to do that, but  that will worok
[21:02] <mbruzek> Works on Power!
[21:02] <mbruzek> One of the few things to.
[21:02] <lazyPower> gnarly
[21:04] <mbruzek> Actually marcoceppi, it has "devel" in there.  That was not one of the releases was it?
[21:18] <dpb1> Hi all -- is calling config-changed on node reboot expected?
[21:19] <ahasenack> marcoceppi: hi, do you know if juju is really supposed to call config-changed when a unit is rebooted?
[21:22] <schegi> someone experience with the hacluster charm?
[21:23] <mbruzek> dpb1, ahasenack, I suspect more information would be needed, but I am going to say, no the state of the VM should not cause config-changed to be called.
[21:25] <dpb1> mbruzek: here is the log from unit start to where our config-change logging starts: https://pastebin.canonical.com/113471/
[21:25] <mbruzek> ahasenack, Can you give us more information?
[21:26] <dpb1> mbruzek: I can give you whatever you would like.  I'm on the node here
[21:26] <ahasenack> mbruzek: it just happens. I'll reboot a "ubuntu" node and see the logs where it tries to call config-changed
[21:28] <mbruzek> ahasenack, This is news to me, I have no idea how juju would keep track of the state of the charm like that.
[21:28] <mbruzek> ahasenack, Is this behavior causing a problem?
[21:28] <ahasenack> oh yeah
[21:29] <mbruzek> ahasenack, Because if config-changed is truly idempotent it should be OK to run that script over and over again.
[21:29] <ahasenack> dpb1 is debugging it, so far seems it's a race between the "service foo start" from config-changed and another "service foo start" from the normal boot process
[21:30]  * mbruzek is testing this on his machine
[21:32] <dpb1> yes, at least with start-stop-daemon, there is no locking, so there are races around creation of the pidfile..
[21:34] <ahasenack> mbruzek: from the docs, it might even be it's on purpose:
[21:34] <ahasenack> config-changed runs in several different situations.
[21:34] <ahasenack>     immediately after "install"
[21:34] <ahasenack>     immediately after "upgrade-charm"
[21:34] <ahasenack>     at least once when the unit agent is restarted (but, if the unit is in an error state, it won't be run until after the error state is cleared).
[21:34] <ahasenack> see the "at least" bit
[21:35] <mbruzek> ahasenack, well there you have it.  I was unaware of that.
[21:36] <mbruzek> ahasenack, The unit agent must signal to juju that it was restarted
[21:36] <mbruzek> ls
[21:51] <schegi> anyone experienced with the hacluster charm?
[23:28] <sebas5384> i'm starting the scaling part of the charm I'm doing
[23:28] <sebas5384> what should be the better path here?
[23:28] <sebas5384> ceph, nfs, glusterFS ... ?
[23:29] <sebas5384> there's a storage charm too
[23:29] <sebas5384> i'm really tented into ceph
[23:41] <sebas5384> someone? :P
[23:42] <sebas5384> ceph seems to really big for a drupal charm hehe
[23:44] <jose> well, I've seen mediawiki use nfs
[23:44] <jose> as well as owncloud
[23:46] <sebas5384> yeah jose, and the wordpress charm too
[23:46] <jose> give nfs a shot, maybe?
[23:47] <sebas5384> yeah but something about distributed file systems took me attention
[23:47] <sebas5384> ceph and glusterfs distribution is awsome
[23:48] <sebas5384> but yeah at first nfs is a good option
[23:49] <sebas5384> i don't know man, scaling with nfs not seems right to me hehe
[23:50] <sebas5384> but yeah, I should give it a try first


[02:39] <donofrio> What do you good folks think? "Using Ubuntu on Windows is safer than Ubuntu on Linux." - Page 46 - http://www.alex-ionescu.com/publications/BlueHat/bluehat2016.pdf
[02:39] <donofrio> in reagrds to WSL
[03:02] <sima> donofrio, you can also use Linux binaries on Joyent's Triton cloud (SmartOS) on illumos. And on FreeBSD. And where else.
[03:04] <sima> "Safety" is not bought by weight on market, actually, Safety is a product of many choosing and decisions and operative things one does in setting things up including procedures. And using "MS Windows" in any way, since it's inception as a proprietary product is not safe for a company in the first place.
[03:07] <sima> There are examples, where using proprietary platform and depending on their updates (that bring various bugs) actually can be a show-stopper and hurt companies. They are actually black-box products. I for example waited for 6 months or so , for (advertised!) NFS mount support in Win10Pro to start actually working and I think even today it has problems. For free software OS, it allows you to compile your own fixed thing and use it in
[03:07] <sima> meantime..
[03:09] <sima> No to mention, it allows you to grow in abilities, learn and be independent (and provide better support for others) then just using some proprietary black-box.
[03:14] <sima> Not saying, that paying support should not be done, but as a contrast to "licensing" without support, and paying actual support for actual support service for free software distros, brings much more value to the free software side.
[03:15] <sima> And actual "running binaries" is a wrong concept. On Linux distros, binaries are often recompiled to fit distro. Not the other way around , where they see "binaries" as unchangeable bricks. You have the source, baby :)
[03:17] <sima> But yes, linux binaries (at least for long support kernel) are slowly changing and standardizing , that brings me back to Triton's solution. But on LInux binaries side, supporting forever some unchanged "binaries" is a more or less brain dead "solution" in the essence.
[03:35] <donofrio> tnx
[05:28] <hifi> hey, xubuntu looks lika a fairly polished xfce setup but the indicators bother me, for bionic there's still duplicates in the notification area from different sources, I assume it's known and someone's working on the defaults to remove them but just wanted to note that it's one of the few things that looks a bit off
[05:29] <hifi> otherwise I've been using bionic for quite some time now and no major issues
[05:41] <xangua> You can just remove the indicators applet and leave only the classic notification one (or otherwise)
[05:49] <hifi> xangua: I know but it's one of the things that looks unpolished when the defaults look "duplicated" for the end user
[05:49] <flocculant> hifi: we're aware of it :)
[05:49] <hifi> +1
[05:51] <hifi> what would be the best place to report a bug with the modesetting xorg driver with intel gpus? after resuming and unlocking my session the screen goes blank, vt switching works but xorg remains completely blank, using the 'intel' xorg driver fixes that, I find it odd the screen locker works fine
[05:52] <flocculant> hifi: do you have indicator-application installed? if so you could try removing that - we're still using indicator applet for indicator-messages
[05:52] <flocculant> hifi: ubuntu-bug <package>
[05:53] <hifi> I doubt it can be fixed until bionic ships, unfortunately, it will affect at least X200 series of thinkpads which will likely annoy a lot of people :)
[05:55] <flocculant> hifi: possibly - but otoh it might be on radar - at that level it's not Xubuntu but everyone
[05:56] <hifi> it's weird the screen locker works, xubuntu is using lightdm as the locker, right? does it do any xrandr magic after unlocking a session?
[05:57] <flocculant> using light-locker, not sure about any magic
[05:58] <hifi> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=231698 maybe I'm not that far off
[05:59] <hifi> need to check with xrandr if it just disabled the only internal display after unlock with the modesetting driver
[06:00] <hifi> would at least be nice to know which package I'd need to file the bug against
[06:00] <flocculant> hifi: I'd likely start with xorg
[06:01] <flocculant> anyway - got to go now - work unfortunately beckons
[06:01] <hifi> anyway, great work with xubuntu overall, coming from the fedora camp at this cycle
[06:11] <flocculant> hifi: thanks
[06:18] <hifi> well what do you know, updated packages and the problem went away, looks like someone else had hit it first :)
[09:09] <FredG> hello
[09:10] <knome> hello
[09:11] <FredG> I installed xubuntu 16.04.04 on laptop and it can't seem to resolve dns names.  Is there a place I can
[09:11] <FredG> Hardcode a dns server number?  I tried adding a static IP in interfaces, but no joy
[09:12] <knome> check /etc/hosts
[09:12] <knome> though obviously if the issue with dns resolving is with xubuntu, you should fix that and not live by workarounds...
[09:14] <FredG> hmm..  I've got <IP_ADDRESS> Localhost and <IP_ADDRESS> pihole (which is hostname
[09:14] <knome> you can add things like "<IP_ADDRESS>  xubuntu.org"
[09:14] <FredG> to the hosts file?
[09:14] <knome> after which xubuntu.org is resolved to that IP address..
[09:14] <knome> yes
[09:15] <hifi> the active dns server configuration is in /etc/resolv.conf and it is usually managerd by NetworkManager or some other application
[09:15] <knome> but again, this is just a workaround for your issue, so if your internet connection resolves DNS address for other computers, you should fix the issue
[09:15] <hifi> if resolv.conf is empty or has an invalid dns server address your system is unable to resolve names
[09:17] <FredG> ok.
[09:19] <FredG> the router usually does the DNS resolution, i'm trying to set up a pihole but this problem started upon install
[09:20] <FredG> I did change NetworkManager to commment out DNSMasq and add dns=default but that didn't fix anything.  I'll try the resolv.conf
[09:20] <hifi> just see what's in there first
[09:22] <FredG> in /etc/resolv.conf there is interface-order  resolf.conf.d  update.d and update-libc.d
[09:23] <FredG> and in resolv.conf.d is Original base and
[09:23] <FredG> head and tail
[09:23] <hifi> if there is no 'nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>' entry in the text file /etc/resolv.conf it means you don't have a name server configured
[09:24] <FredG> nope. there is no resolv.conf
[09:24] <hifi> you could try if you can force a temporary nameserver by adding 'nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>' (it's the Google DNS server) there but that's not a permanent solution but will help you get connectivity
[09:25] <hifi> you can also use your router ip address there if you know it will do dns resolution
[09:25] <FredG> is it nameserver=<IP_ADDRESS> ?
[09:25] <FredG> or whitespace in between =
[09:26] <hifi> no '=', just 'nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>'
[09:27] <FredG> ok, let me give that a shot.   the weird thing is dig <IP_ADDRESS> works but dig google.com doesn't
[09:28] <FredG> argh.. nope
[09:29] <hifi> if you've setup your interfaces manually, you have set up a default gateway, right?
[09:30] <FredG> yeeessss...
[09:30] <FredG> I'm try8ing to think where I did that
[09:30] <hifi> if you can't ping <IP_ADDRESS> and there's no reason why you couldn't (no firewall blocking ping to outside) then you don't have a route out
[09:30] <hifi> 'ip r' should show 'default via <IP_ADDRESS>' if you have a default gateway setup currently
[09:31] <FredG> I can ping <IP_ADDRESS>  I can't ping google.com
[09:31] <hifi> can you 'dig @<IP_ADDRESS> google.com'
[09:32] <FredG> ip r did default vi <IP_ADDRESS> which ish rouuter
[09:32] <FredG> digg got anser google.com <IP_ADDRESS>
[09:33] <hifi> then you typoed /etc/resolv.conf
[09:33] <hifi> if /etc/resolv.conf has a single line of 'nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>' it should effectively work
[09:34] <hifi> then 'dig google.com' is essentially the same as 'dig @<IP_ADDRESS> google.com' and all dns should resolve normally
[09:35] <FredG> I checked resolv.conf, its ok.  dig google.com times out no servers reached, while<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:35] <FredG> seems to resolve normally.
[09:36] <FredG> I noticed that in the desktop Network setting, every time I add a DNS number to the middle tab, it removes it on reboot.
[09:40] <FredG> hey, it works!
[09:40] <FredG> Rebooted and it seems to be ok, so far.  thanks Hifi!!