[12:00] <flint> Good morning from LinuxWorld Boston.
[12:01] <flint> ogra, ping
[12:01] <ajmitch> isn't the edubuntu meeting in ~2hrs?
[12:04] <flint> ajmitch, sorry, we went through a time switch on the east coast last weekend...
[12:04] <flint> :^)
[12:04] <Seveas> @now UTC
[12:05] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 05 2006, 10:05:01
[12:05] <Seveas> yes, 2 hours
[12:05] <ajmitch> Seveas: easy for me, being UTC+12 :)
[12:05] <Seveas> hehe
[12:09] <jane_> hi flint
[12:09] <jane_> thanks for the chuckle
[12:11] <ajmitch> morning jane_
[12:11] <jane_> hi ajmitch
[12:12] <spacey> @now CEST
[12:13] <spacey> @now CET
[12:13] <Ubugtu> Current time in CET: April 05 2006, 12:13:07
[12:13] <jane_> @now CAT
[12:13] <jane_> hrm
[12:14] <spacey> @now Etc/Zulu
[12:14] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/Zulu: April 05 2006, 10:14:12
[12:14] <spacey> @now posixrules
[12:14] <Ubugtu> Current time in posixrules: April 05 2006, 06:14:45
[12:31] <flint> JaneW, you know that I live to serve...  sorry for the delay, I am packing out of my room in South Boston.
[12:31] <flint> I basically spent yesterday listening to IBM and wondering why they havent heard the word "Ubuntu".
[12:32] <flint> :^)
[12:32] <flint> Wed Apr  5 06:32:26 EDT 2006
[12:33] <sivang> flint: they have, I can assure you :)
[12:33] <sivang> flint: you just need to talk to the right crowd :)
[12:35] <flint> sivang, you are wise in your knowledge that one sould understand the non monolothic nature of IBM.  Scratch the surface and you find genius warlords in a winners game for survival.
[12:36] <flint> sivang, and that is on a good day! :^)
[12:47] <sivang> flint:  :)
[01:01] <highvoltage> @schedule utc
[01:01] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00: Xubuntu
[01:01] <highvoltage> omg i forgot it's wednesday
[01:02] <highvoltage> i have to go to the bank at 12:00 utc :/
[01:02] <flint> highvoltage, jonathan please do not refer to me as your diety while online, simple prayer and worship is sufficient...]
[01:02] <flint> :^)
[01:03] <flint> ...as jonathan's diety I must remember to create in South Africa online banking...
[01:03] <highvoltage> :P
[01:04] <flint> hehe
[01:04] <highvoltage> flint: i have online banking, but can't do certain stuff on there
[01:04] <highvoltage> (like talk to financial advisor to try to figure out how to stay out of financial trouble :) )
[01:05] <flint> highvoltage, I wish I had godlike powers for real now jonathan... :^(
[01:05] <highvoltage> flint: hehe
[01:07] <flint> It is 07:00 EDT so I am gonna kick off this edubuntu meeting by congratulating all
[01:07] <flint> our plan to keep edubuntu a secret is working perfectly!
[01:08] <flint> no one no where anywhere at LinuxWorld Boston is advertising, offering, extending or acknowledging edubuntu.
[01:08] <flint> we have succeded!  our secret is safe!
[01:09] <flint> ... and this is despite my best efforts to the contrary.
[01:10] <Seveas> flint, edubuntu meeting is still an hour away ;)
[01:10] <flint> actually, the guys at the LTSP boot told me in private that they had "heard" of edubuntu, but that was off the record, and the sales guy at the WYSE booth wanted to sell me a buncha old xterms... Seveas give me space here I am on a rant...
[01:11] <flint> :^)
[01:11] <Seveas> flint, hehe, rant ahead ;)
[01:11] <Seveas> I'm not surprised though - edubuntu is still a very young project
[01:12] <flint> Seveas, jeez man the oldest thing at the show is me... it is a young biz.
[01:12] <highvoltage> flint: i'll be at linuxworld south africa, pimping edubuntu
[01:12] <highvoltage> JaneW: think you'll be able to make it there too?
[01:13] <flint> highvoltage, you got a booth jonathan?  (Oh yea, you will also need a plad suit that is too tight and a very loud tie)
[01:13] <flint> :^)
[01:13] <flint> highvoltage, otherwise you are perfect for this job.
[01:14] <JaneW> highvoltage: sadly not, I asked silbs to pay for some piddly advertising and I got the usual terse NO
[01:14] <JaneW> flint: not everyone here was alive in the 70s
[01:14] <highvoltage> JaneW: TSF has some free space, so if they could pay for your plane tickets, we could be there
[01:14] <JaneW> except you and I :P
[01:14] <JaneW> highvoltage: I will see what I can do...
[01:15] <flint> highvoltage, well, except for a fatal flaw which disqualifies you.  Knowledge of the facts and acutal insight into edubuntu.  sorry jonathan, fatal flaws...
[01:15] <highvoltage> isn'e elmo old too?
[01:15] <flint> JaneW, except for the brain damage, I kinda liked the 70's...
[01:15] <highvoltage> flint: which flaw?
[01:16] <flint> highvoltage, someone marketing cannot be burdened with a knowledge of the product.  that flaw.
[01:16] <highvoltage> sivang: no, don't. it would mean that you had to be a teenager in the 80's! heaven forbid!
[01:16] <flint> sivang, and go through life with a 50% iq reduction? na..
[01:16] <highvoltage> flint: i'm quite good with that, you should see me in action sometime
[01:17] <flint> highvoltage, touche...
[01:17] <highvoltage> :)
[01:17] <flint> :^)
[01:18] <sivang> flint, highvoltage : would have been witness to the creation of personal computerss... :)
[01:18] <flint> simira, funny i am still waiting for the creation of personal computers, think it will happen soon?
[01:20] <JaneW> guys pls speak slowly in today's meeting
[01:21] <JaneW> I am handicapped by my neck
[01:21] <JaneW> luckilly I was just given something to eat, else I might have died quietly here...
[01:22] <flint> JaneW, what is up with your body?  you ok?
[01:22] <JaneW> flint: no idea
[01:22] <JaneW> perhaps age?
[01:23] <JaneW> my neck just decided to seize up
[01:23] <JaneW> and continues to worsten instead of improve
[01:23] <JaneW> I have been reclinded in my bed all day
[01:23] <JaneW> not an optimal typing position
[01:24] <ogra> highvoltage, it wasnt *that* bad to be a teenie in the 80s :)
[01:24] <flint> JaneW, I am hurt, I wanted to remain as the pain in your neck... :^)
[01:25] <sivang> poor JaneW :-/
[01:25] <flint> ogra, good morning Ollie, our girl Jane is hurting, this is not good.
[01:26] <JaneW> I assume I'll live
[01:26] <JaneW> so life goes on...
[01:26] <flint> JaneW, try cynicism and bitterness, it always works for me!
[01:27] <JaneW> ha
[01:27] <flint> also drugs, I am a child of the 70's...
[01:27] <JaneW> heh
[01:28] <JaneW> well for someone who never medicates, I am on post-operative painkillers
[01:29] <flint> well i can see you picked a fine time to give up snorting heroin... :^)
[01:30] <flint> I gotta go ge more coffee before I can continue to abuse the infirm...
[01:36] <JaneW> er I don't think you can snort heroin
[01:36] <JaneW> didn't you watch Pulp Fiction!?
[01:38] <flint> JaneW, your obvious ignorance on the subject of recreational opiates it is a great comfort to me
[01:38] <JaneW> it's supposed to be melted and injected (according to Train Spotting)
[01:39] <flint> JaneW, they are a serious and deadly topic.  and movie knowledge is really all you need :^)  now rest and get better.
[01:42] <flint> btw the reference started witha paraphrase from the movie "Airplane" by the Zuker brothers...
[01:43] <JaneW> was recently rerun here
[01:44] <JaneW> and I laughed again, despite myself
[01:45] <flint> JaneW, welcome back ...and stop calling me Shirley...
[01:45] <JaneW> I keep detaching the # I am speaking in
[01:45] <Seveas> 'sup shirley?
[01:46] <JaneW> shirley you are not upset with me?
[01:46] <flint> Seveas, surely you do not mean me...
[01:47] <flint> JaneW, surely i would never be upset with you... ok it looses someting when Lesly Neilson is not saying it.  (god rest his soul:^)
[02:00] <flint> for the assembled masses I would like to re-open with my deathless prose...
[02:00] <flint> I would like to re-announce that our plan to keep edubuntu a secret is working perfectly!  No one anywhere at LinuxWorld Boston is advertising, offering, extending or acknowledging edubuntu.  Thus I remain pleased to report that we have succeded!  our secret is safe! Actually, the guys at the LTSP boot told me in private that they had "heard" of edubuntu, but that was off the record, and the sales guy at the WYSE booth wanted to
[02:00] <flint> sell me a buncha old xterms...
[02:01] <flint> thus concludes my report from Boston LinuxWorld USA.
[02:01] <JaneW> thanks flint
[02:02] <JaneW> ok who is here for the Edubuntu meeting?
[02:02] <flint> JaneW, are you really putting that vast advertising budget the foundation is giving you into pain drugs?
[02:02] <flint> :^)
[02:03] <JaneW> flint we get no budget what so ever
[02:04] <JaneW> despite several requests for a few small promotional and branding items
[02:04] <JaneW> there's not much more I can do at this point, besides
[02:04] <JaneW> 1) Give up
[02:04] <ogra> and we dont have many community people in the US that could do such a booth (i only know three)
[02:04] <JaneW> 2) Fund stuff myself
[02:04] <ogra> (two of them regulary attend this meeting)
[02:05] <flint> ogra, I am gonna be teaching courses at three symposia in New England this quarter on edubuntu.  Think of the fees that I will garner from this!
[02:05] <ogra> JaneW, edubuntu promotion on fairs works well in germany ... withot any funding
[02:05] <flint> ogra, my fortune is assured.
[02:06] <flint> :^)
[02:06] <flint> so if JaneW would only share her drugs...
[02:06] <ogra> flint, sure, but you are local, so either organize something yourself or stop complaining :P its a job for the LoCo teams, if they fail, complain at them
[02:07] <flint> ogra, i am not complaining I am whining... there is a difference you know.
[02:07] <flint> but the topic of budget is a dogged one.
[02:07] <ogra> edubuntu was at the Cebit, at the LinuxDays in Essen and will have a booth on LinuxTag in wiesbaden, without any intervention from canonical or from me
[02:08] <jsgotangco> nor in LinuxWorld Manila
[02:08] <ogra> this much for germany ...
[02:08] <ogra> oh and i forgot, it was as well on TV with the cebit booth
[02:08] <jsgotangco> some people are good self starters :)
[02:08] <flint> ogra, but germany is a socialist anarchy.
[02:09] <flint> america is a facist state.  we need to bribe the officials in power.  that takes a budget :^)
[02:09] <flint> I would propose that a new topic be considered - edubuntu budget.
[02:09] <JaneW> ok money whining aside
[02:10] <flint> jsgotangco, you just hate politics...
[02:10] <JaneW> ogra: everything ok on your side?
[02:10] <ogra> yep
[02:10] <JaneW> ogra: good
[02:10] <jsgotangco> flint: you're saying grassroots advocacy doesn't work
[02:10] <ogra> i have not much to say ...
[02:10] <JaneW> you mentioned bugs from mdz
[02:10] <ogra> we had flight 6
[02:10] <JaneW> are they edubuntu related or other
[02:10] <ogra> yes, ubuntu bugs
[02:10] <flint> ogra, kevin cole found a program that kills the terminals on flight 5
[02:10] <JaneW> oic
[02:10] <JaneW> how's flight 6 looking?
[02:11] <JaneW> Anyone tested it yet?
[02:11] <jsgotangco> sorry
[02:11] <ogra> i thnik there are 3 or 4 edubuntu bugs among them
[02:11] <JaneW> (Note I am going to have to slow down the typing - hurts)
[02:11] <ogra> one is from jsgotangco btw :)
[02:11] <flint> JaneW, been playing in Boston...
[02:11] <ogra> we need a css for the about edubuntu page ;)
[02:11] <flint> have not tested will test for Kevin Coles' bug when I get back to the lab.
[02:12] <ogra> additionally highvoltage made this beautiful document: http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/
[02:12] <ogra> i'll replace the contents of edubuntu-docs with it
[02:12] <jsgotangco> that's beautiful
[02:12] <ogra> else we're still waiting to see some of the designer artwork
[02:13] <ogra> thats it so far from the tech side
[02:13] <ogra> ohhh
[02:13] <flint> highvoltage, where do you find the time?  that page is excellent.
[02:13] <ogra> and sabdfl approved that we can get rid of this darn "server" installoption
[02:13] <JaneW> ogra: do you have an eta on the designer work
[02:13] <ogra> it wont be on flight 7 i hopew
[02:13] <JaneW> ?
[02:13] <JaneW> highvoltage: nice doc! :))
[02:14] <JaneW> ogra: won't?
[02:14] <ogra> JaneW, nope
[02:14] <ogra> apart from silbs telling me that my colors might get changed fopr the designer stuff i havent heard anything
[02:14] <JaneW> ok
[02:14] <ogra> (i'm lagging like hell here ...)
[02:15] <ogra> grr
[02:15] <jsgotangco> its already 2006 and we still experience lag
[02:16] <ogra> JaneW, yes won't :)
[02:16] <ogra> finally
[02:16] <ogra> i was fighting for that since dapper started
[02:17] <ogra> so this screen will only have: "install to HD" and "install a workstation" http://jonathancarter.co.za/docs/ed-gs/images/cdboot.png
[02:18] <ogra> (above the "Check ..." that is)
[02:19] <flint> ogra, yea why would you only install as a server?
[02:19] <ogra> flint, "server" actually means "minimal"
[02:19] <ogra> that confused a lot of people
[02:20] <ogra> but renaming seems to be difficult, so we'll drop it completely
[02:20] <jsgotangco> even ubuntu-server has better options
[02:20] <jsgotangco> more descriptive
[02:20] <flint> ogra, thankfully i am too illiturate to get confused...
[02:21] <ogra> flint, and i thought guess you are just too lazy and hit enter for the default selection (the first one) :)
[02:21] <ogra> -guess
[02:21] <flint> ogra, what you call lazy i call excellent user interface design.
[02:21] <ogra> hehe
[02:22] <flint> :^)  god I am a suckup.
[02:23] <ogra> next topic ?
[02:23] <highvoltage> flint: i created that page over friday evening and saturday morning :)
[02:24] <ogra> highvoltage, we'll need to go through it once ... there are still some things in that need fixing ... but i think its the best doc we ever had up to now, thanks a lot
[02:24] <jsgotangco> \o/
[02:24] <highvoltage> ogra: np, there'll more where that came from
[02:24] <highvoltage> (be more)
[02:24] <ogra> :)
[02:25] <ogra> jsgotangco, does ff open help:// links in yelp ?
[02:25] <highvoltage> just on the website stuff, the theming is coming along okay, although not completed yet.
[02:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: it doesn't
[02:25] <ogra> meh
[02:25] <ogra> it would be cool to link it from the ff default page ...
[02:25] <highvoltage> we'll be able to finish up when the edubuntu theming is finalised, since we want the website to resemble the system, building better brand assosiation
[02:25] <JaneW> sorry I just had an nb phone call
[02:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: it doesn't even know irc://
[02:25] <olive> it does, if help:// is set in gconf
[02:26] <ogra> olive, oh, thats good news, i'll look into it
[02:26] <ogra> thanks for the hint :)
[02:27] <jsgotangco> you don't want to put it in yelp instead? it'll have a shiny new frontpage
[02:28] <ogra> i think it should reside among the UbuntuServer Guide and the other docs in there
[02:28] <flint> ogra, I gotta say your idea of a ff link sounds good to me.
[02:29] <ogra> i'm not sure if we can ship ubuntu-docs at all :(
[02:29] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[02:29] <ogra> since i was told it will grow a lot
[02:29] <jsgotangco> those are good docs
[02:29] <highvoltage> ogra: about the Schooltool link, will we get one in firefox or in the gnome-menus?
[02:29] <ogra> highvoltage, i'd prefer ff
[02:30] <highvoltage> ogra: me 2.
[02:30] <flint> ogra, surely you cannot have space on the CD for jonathans page do you?
[02:30] <highvoltage> currently it's about 600k large (which is quite big)
[02:31] <highvoltage> but if i save the images as jpegs (which will distort them slightly), it should be able to come down to 200k
[02:31] <ogra> flint, highvoltages page will be ~2M with screenshots in the end ... ubuntu-docs might grow to 10M or more
[02:31] <ogra> s/will/might/
[02:31] <highvoltage> although it's not complete yet, so when the docuemnt is more complete it will probably lean toward 400k
[02:31] <jsgotangco> can you optimize the pngs?
[02:31] <jsgotangco> pngcrush or something
[02:31] <flint> ogra, you are a wizard, get over here and pack my suitcase! :^)
[02:31] <ogra> sure you can use pngcrunch
[02:32] <flint> ogra, jpegs are always firefox tasty
[02:32] <highvoltage> ok, i'll try that instead of using jpegs
[02:32] <ogra> we dont ship any language packs in the CD currently ... i'll need to make room before release for at least some of them
[02:34] <flint> ogra, got to have european languages.  the chinese have a whole wall at this show (no kidding)
[02:34] <JaneW> ogra: how do you select them?
[02:34] <JaneW> by most popular?
[02:34] <ogra> i guess so ...
[02:34] <JaneW> ok, and then the rest will have to be d/led
[02:34] <ogra> i thought selecting the same way ubuntu does (which is by most popular)
[02:35] <ogra> but we probably should take into account where *we* are most popular
[02:35] <jsgotangco> remove OOo then replace it with abiword, gnumeric and magicpoint :)
[02:35] <flint> JaneW, I recommend the list begin with German and Dutch :^)
[02:35] <ogra> flint, these are not very popular
[02:36] <ogra> (probably place 15 from the 90 langs we have)
[02:36] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: or gnome with xfce :)
[02:36] <flint> ogra, I like 'em :^)
[02:36] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: aye, the xubuntu flight 6 is pretty solid
[02:36] <jsgotangco> still ate 1.2GB of HD though
[02:37] <ogra> we dont care about HDs :)
[02:37] <ogra> only about isos ;)
[02:37] <jsgotangco> true though
[02:37] <flint> we care about CD's
[02:37] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm running xfce now, it's really come a far way, definately a strong candidate as default desktop in edubuntu, imo. ogra seems to agree there too, so i'm quite excited about that.
[02:37] <jsgotangco> and we still get gtk2 love
[02:38] <ogra> i dont agree for it as default, but optional :)
[02:38] <flint> this is when you say, one language one CD.  Many languages one DVD.
[02:39] <ogra> flint, we cant ship only one language on the CD
[02:39] <flint> kinda like the mondo mindi layout.  a core iso and options to fill the available space...
[02:40] <flint> I did not say which language.  how many lang packs could you get on a CD comfortably...
[02:40] <jsgotangco> 1
[02:40] <jsgotangco> :D
[02:40] <flint> jsgotangco, I think it is better than that. Gnome does amazing things with languages.
[02:41] <ogra> flint, but KDE doesnt
[02:41] <ogra> we ship both by default ... the KDE packs eat a lot more space
[02:41] <jsgotangco> \o_ K D E _o/
[02:42] <ogra> since they contain *all* translations for the *whole* KDE .... while we need translations for 6 apps or so
[02:42] <flint> ogra, I never even tried to get to KDE.  It installs by default, oh it must to support kde based apps!
[02:42] <ogra> yep
[02:43] <ogra> i dont know if we'd have an option to split out kdeedu packs, pitti might know
[02:44] <flint> but you cannot get around supporting the KDE apps.  so you need lang packs for both kde and gnome...
[02:44] <flint> not to mention the actual console packs.
[02:45] <flint> ogra, suppose we attacked the three packs with a spell check tokenizer per language?
[02:46] <ogra> ??
[02:46] <highvoltage> flint: you'll still be able to run KDE apps, if you apt-get install a KDE app, it will download the KDE libraries too
[02:46] <ogra> "spell check tokenizer" ?
[02:46] <highvoltage> flint: so it's not like KDE will be completely unsuported
[02:46] <ogra> i still want to drop the KDE stuff asap
[02:47] <jsgotangco> ogra: you'll be supporting them for 5 years though
[02:47] <flint> each language has a spell checker, and if you took each lang pack and tokenized it based on the spell checker crib, you could gain dramatic compression improvement.
[02:47] <ogra> yes, but i dont want to have the same issue with the next 5 year release
[02:47] <flint> tokenized the lang pack that is.
[02:47] <highvoltage> ogra: you mean after release, of course?
[02:48] <flint> sadly this is a research project we have neither the time or resources to go after.
[02:48] <ogra> highvoltage, dropping KDE ? yes ...
[02:48] <highvoltage> ok
[02:48] <highvoltage> i think the sooner the better (after release).
[02:48] <ogra> else it would already have been dropped
[02:49] <highvoltage> heh.
[02:49] <ogra> we need replacements first
[02:49] <ogra> and apps like kalzium are hard to replace
[02:49] <flint> as I understand it there are 6  specific packages that need the kde stuff.
[02:49] <ogra> (its winning awards all over the world)
[02:50] <ogra> flint, nope
[02:50] <ogra> only one package .... 6 apps
[02:50] <flint> ok gotcha.
[02:50] <ogra> i just talked to pitti in -devel, he said its technically no problem, but it will produce another 100 packages
[02:50] <ogra> (one for every lang)
[02:51] <highvoltage> geez
[02:51] <ogra> i'll need to discuss it with him ...
[02:51] <ogra> and also see how much we'd really gain with it
[02:52] <flint> I am out of time... thanks for the kind words...
[02:52] <flint> sksk
[02:52] <ogra> ciao flint
[02:52] <ogra> so any artwork/doc/community stuff left ?
[02:53] <highvoltage> not for today, from my side.
[02:53] <jsgotangco> i can only bughunt/test for this cycle for now
[02:53] <ogra> ok, so lets close the meeting then ...
[02:54] <ogra> adjourned, thanks all
[02:54] <JaneW> when is the cookbook debate going to be resolved?
[02:55] <ogra> dunno, Pygi was talking about friday morning ...
[02:55] <highvoltage> thanks ogra
[02:55] <JaneW> ok friday is good
[02:56] <jsgotangco> cookbook debate heh
[02:56] <JaneW> except 10:00 - 11:00 UTC - chiro appt
[02:56] <jsgotangco> that sounded really bad
[02:58] <ogra> JaneW, he taled about 9:00 UTC
[02:58] <ogra> *talked
[03:00] <JaneW> ogra: ok good
[03:00] <JaneW> I appologise for being a bit spaced out
[03:01] <JaneW> I agree with flint that we need to focus on getting Edubuntu out there with the Dapper release
[03:01] <JaneW> and will need more of a marketing and awareness drive
[03:01] <JaneW> we have hung back due to Breezy being a bit limited, but now we need to get people using it and talking about it MORE
[03:02] <JaneW> and the documentation is important to achieveing that goal
[03:02] <JaneW> IMO
[03:02] <ogra> sure ...
[03:02] <ogra> but i'm fine with jonathans doc for now ... if we dont get a cookbook, we'll at least have this one ...
[03:03] <JaneW> so more stuff like highvoltage's doc will be good
[03:03] <JaneW> yes agreed
[03:03] <JaneW> it's neat, friendly, easy to read and understand
[03:03] <JaneW> that what we need
[03:03] <ogra> additionally i'm writing a bunch of LTSP docs, merge them, add some info about the edu apps, and you have a cookbook
[03:03] <JaneW> excellent
[03:04] <ogra> did you ever take a look at the server guide and the admin guide from dappers ubuntu-docs ?
[03:05] <ogra> it covers already most of our stuff
[03:06] <pips1> ogra, is that server guide you are talking about in the 'Help' of Dapper?
[03:06] <ogra> yep
[03:06] <pips1> ok, i shall check it out
[03:06] <ogra> there is desktop guide, server guide and packaging guide
[03:06] <ogra> and about ubuntu
[03:07] <pips1> ogra, I finally got flight6 running with internet access
[03:07] <ogra> just open yelp on a dapper machine
[03:07] <ogra> yay
[03:07] <pips1> the german localisation works ok, as far as I could tell so far
[03:07] <ogra> good
[03:07] <pips1> I'll do some more testing later
[03:08] <ogra> (lest move to #edubuntu)
[03:08] <ogra> *lets
[03:08] <pips1> i wasn't able to login with my thinpad as client via pxe, though, need to investigate further
[03:08] <pips1> ok
[03:09] <pips1> --> edubuntu
[04:11] <Gloubiboulga> ok, xubuntu meeting is supposed to have begun, but Jani and Daniele are not there :/
[04:11] <Gloubiboulga> I've sent them a mail, I hope they'll come...
[04:11] <luzi> jani said that he'll be late
[04:11] <Gloubiboulga> luzi, ok thanks :)
[04:13] <Gloubiboulga> there are only 2 items which need to be discussed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda-2006-04-05
[04:15] <Gloubiboulga> sivang, I don't think so
[04:16] <Gloubiboulga> but there's a problem with kubuntu-desktop
[04:16] <luzi> Gloubiboulga, what do you think about the logo?
[04:17] <Gloubiboulga> luzi, as I write on the ML, I'm not sure that the mouse in the logo is really the best idea
[04:17] <Gloubiboulga> *wrote
[04:17] <sivang> Gloubiboulga: where can the logo be seen ?
[04:17] <sivang> (I don't have xubuntu installed)
[04:18] <Gloubiboulga> sivang, http://www.dsslive.org/xubuntu/tmp/artworks/html/logos.html
[04:18] <Gloubiboulga> the column on the right are some proposed logos
[04:18] <luzi> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuArtwork
[04:18] <sivang> why the mouse?
[04:18] <olive> why not ? :)
[04:19] <Kinnison> sivang: The xfce logo is a mouse iirc
[04:19] <Gloubiboulga> the mouse is the Xfce logo
[04:19] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: what's the problem with kubuntu-desktop?
[04:19] <anstei> hi everyone, sorry i'm a bit late
[04:20] <ogra> Riddell, it installs KDE ?
[04:20] <Gloubiboulga> Riddell, let me find the message in the xubuntu ml
[04:20] <thomerz> hmm i like the logo with the mouse :)
[04:20] <sivang> Kinnison: you also interested in Xubuntu ? :)
[04:20] <Gloubiboulga> Riddell, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2006-April/000888.html
[04:20] <Kinnison> sivang: I used to comaintain the xfce packages in debian
[04:20] <ogra> :)
[04:21] <Gloubiboulga> so, about the mouse, I think that Xubuntu is not Ubuntu with Xfce
[04:21] <Riddell> Gloubiboulga: ok, I'll give that some testing soon
[04:21] <luzi> maybe it's a bit more than ubuntu and xfce, but these two are the 'main components'
[04:21] <Gloubiboulga> xubuntu's aim is to be light, that's why xfce has been choosen
[04:22] <Gloubiboulga> Riddell, thanks :)
[04:22] <Gloubiboulga> luzi, that's true
[04:24] <Gloubiboulga> anyone else has a point of vue on this logo question ?
[04:24] <Gloubiboulga> we should vote for this :)
[04:25] <luzi> i agree with some people on the ML: the logo with the mouse is good, the colors are too KDEish
[04:26] <luzi> i like these colors: http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-logo/
[04:26] <Gloubiboulga> so what about a grey logo (with or without the mouese)?
[04:26] <luzi> grey would be good, too
[04:26] <Gloubiboulga> luzi, I like the second one
[04:27] <luzi> it's more or less the colors from the Xfce.org webpage ...
[04:27] <jurjenst> luzi: I too like some more blue in it... only grey is too flat
[04:28] <jurjenst> the top logo in the luzi page would be my pick
[04:28] <jurjenst> perhaps with the bigger greyed mouse of the other logo page
[04:30] <jurjenst> the triangle logo would be too way off from the xfce logo to be understood
[04:30] <Gloubiboulga> ok, so I guess that (almost) every one agree with the mouse in the logo
[04:30] <Gloubiboulga> and colours could be grey/blue
[04:31] <luzi> yep, i  think you're right
[04:31] <Gloubiboulga> lets wait the big boss and we'll define the one we pick then, ok?
[04:32] <luzi> alright
[04:32] <Gloubiboulga> 2. goodies meta package :)
[04:33] <Gloubiboulga> this package can't be installed for the moment, but could be fixed
[04:33] <Gloubiboulga> I think that it should be installable, now that isos are available
[04:34] <Gloubiboulga> for now the policy was to wait after the non-yet-ported plugins to be ported
[04:35] <Gloubiboulga> it's a more technical question.. any thoughs?
[04:36] <Gloubiboulga> ok... :)
[04:39] <jurjenst> You mean a package that installs the most common xfce packages even if you already have the normal ubuntu desktop installed?
[04:40] <jurjenst> or an add-on on the xubuntu release CD?
[04:40] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, not really, it's a package that installs all the panel applets
[04:40] <Gloubiboulga> it can't be on the CD because thoses applets are in universe
[04:41] <jurjenst> ah... and xubuntu should be as lean as possible?
[04:41] <Gloubiboulga> but it'd make things easier to install several tools in one shot
[04:43] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, it's a good way to discover Xfce possibilities for new users imo
[04:43] <sivang> omg, this is amazing
[04:44] <jurjenst> when it's in universe... I don't know if it is worth the effort...
[04:44] <sivang> looks like a better GNOME
[04:44] <jurjenst> just get the most common tools in main would be better
[04:44] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, yes I agree
[04:44] <jurjenst> when it is very usefull get it on the CD by default
[04:45] <Gloubiboulga> I don't think that it's *very* usefull, even if i'd like to see the panel plugins on the CD
[04:45] <jurjenst> perhaps a specific version of add/remove programs would be nice with losts of goodies
[04:46] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, good idea :)
[04:46] <jurjenst> it is possible to create seperate data files for add/remove applications for xfce?
[04:47] <Gloubiboulga> I don't know
[04:48] <jurjenst> it is far more work than a small dep application but it would be much better for people to browse without getting everything installed directly
[04:48] <Gloubiboulga> indeed
[04:49] <luzi_> jurjenst, which add/remove app are you talking about?
[04:50] <Gloubiboulga> the one which comes with ubuntu I think
[04:51] <jurjenst> is xfce4-appfinder something like the ubuntu add/remove applications (the one in the start menu?)
[04:52] <luzi_> i don't think the gnome add/remove app is planned for xubuntu
[04:52] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, no, it lists installed applications
[04:53] <jurjenst> it looked like it... :(
[04:54] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, just to make things clear: your idea is to install plugins in the default install and set up a add/remove dialog box, right?
[04:54] <Gloubiboulga> or the add/remove would install the package too?
[04:57] <jurjenst> I tink it is best to port the gnome-app-install package to xfce (it is written in python) or is the GTK+ library already in your distro...
[04:57] <jurjenst> and then create xml files for the goodies
[04:57] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[04:57] <jurjenst> is GTK already on the iso?
[04:58] <Gloubiboulga> yes, Xfce uses GTK
[04:59] <jurjenst> so it's possible to just write xml files for all your favourite apps and package a xfce-app-finder... it will take some days work but it would be nice ;)
[05:00] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, would you be interested/could you work on this?
[05:00] <Gloubiboulga> we'll have to discuss this with Jani first, but if he's ok...
[05:02] <jurjenst> it even looks like a single file:  /usr/share/gnome-app-install/featured.txt with all the packages...
[05:03] <luzi> Gloubiboulga, do you think jani is still coming? i've got to leave soon...
[05:03] <jurjenst> so I you give me a list of your fav files it should be a breeze to package... just some polish love
[05:03] <Gloubiboulga> luzi, I don't think so :(
[05:04] <jurjenst> Gloubiboulga: can you create a file with one package name for earch line and put it online somewhere?
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, yep I think so :)
[05:04] <jurjenst> the rest of the info seams to be pulled out of dpkg
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> jurjenst, could you join #xubuntu ?
[05:04] <jurjenst> ok
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> I think we can end the meeting here
[05:04] <luzi> ok
[05:05] <Gloubiboulga> I'll send a mail on the list about what we've discussed (which is not much)
[05:05] <luzi> yeah, do that
[05:06] <Gloubiboulga> thanks every one
[05:13] <sivang> btw, the mouse splash running in the ubuntu circle is amazing :)
[05:13] <Gloubiboulga> sivang, I totally agree :)
[05:17] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:18] <jsgotangco> that's the bling that caught me first hand
[05:18] <jsgotangco> although its been there since
[05:34] <Seveas> sivang++ the mouse splash is wicked
[05:34] <sivang> Seveas: indeed, I wish we had a dapper doing that same thing for dapper :)
[05:34] <Seveas> hahahaha
[05:40] <ogra> dancing duck ?
[05:40] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:40] <jsgotangco> diso duck
[05:40] <ogra> hehe
[05:40] <jsgotangco> s/diso/disco
[05:41] <jsgotangco> ogra, how about the edubuntu logo with the arm waving heh
[05:41] <ogra> heh
[05:49] <sivang> ogra: indeed
[05:49] <sivang> :)