[00:04] <ScottL> anyone able to help check a new version of musescore ?
[01:53] <holstein> ScottL: i got it downloaded
[01:53] <holstein> im going to look at it now :)
[01:56] <holstein> ScottL: im not sure i know what to do with it
[02:04] <ScottL> holstein, hi :)
[02:04] <ScottL> i'm feeling pretty spacey right now, taking soma as a muscle relaxer ;)
[02:05] <holstein> OH
[02:05] <holstein> hope you get that sorted out :/
[02:05] <holstein> sux
[02:05] <ScottL> been having some escalating back problems and a previously damaged muscle has been progressively getting worse throughout this week
[02:05] <ScottL> oh, i'll be fine after the muscle settles down :)
[02:05] <holstein> COOL
[02:06]  * holstein downloaded that .diff.gz
[02:06] <ScottL> okay, here's what i think needs to happen
[02:06] <ScottL> maybe someone watching can correct me
[02:06] <ScottL> make sure you have a maverick install to use
[02:06] <ScottL> make a cool directory to do this in
[02:06] <ScottL> apt-get source musescore
[02:07] <ScottL> apply the diff.gz
[02:07] <ScottL> build the package
[02:07] <ScottL> install it
[02:07] <ScottL> run it
[02:07] <ScottL> bend it to your will
[02:07] <ScottL> okay, the last one was silly
[02:07] <holstein> AH
[02:07]  * holstein will have to get maverick installed on something
[02:07] <holstein> that will take longer
[02:07] <ScottL> i think most of that should be easily accessible to you
[02:08] <holstein> i'll put it on an SD card
[02:08] <ScottL> this might help to apply the debdiff  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
[02:08] <ScottL> oh, that's cool (on a SD card)
[02:08] <holstein> :)
[02:08] <holstein> handy
[02:08] <ScottL> CAN you put it on an SD card?
[02:08] <ScottL> and have it boot?
[02:08] <holstein> yup
[02:09] <ScottL> wicked
[02:09]  * holstein has an old EEEpc
[02:09] <holstein> asus
[02:09] <holstein> you can install to SD
[02:09] <holstein> boot SD
[02:09] <holstein> whatever
[02:09] <holstein> its handy for testing
[02:09] <ScottL> oh crap, you will need to download the dependencies before you try to build (unless you do it in ppa or pbuilder)
[02:10] <holstein> well, let me get maverick installed on something
[02:10] <ScottL> i might set up a pbuilder upstairs on my maverick install tonight and try as well
[02:10] <holstein> and i'll see what i can do
[02:10] <ScottL> sounds good
[02:10] <holstein> ScottL: where did you get that diff?
[02:10] <holstein> in a channel?
[02:10] <ScottL> i'm feeling more lucid now that i was earlier (no pun intended)
[02:10] <ScottL> holstein, it came from ScottK in #ubuntu-motu
[02:11] <holstein> cool
[02:20]  * ScottL is installing prevu upstairs right now
[02:46] <ScottL> holstein, did you read my last email to ralf by chance?  was i an arse?
[02:47] <ScottL> i worry that i was
[03:44]  * holstein trying to sleep but the neighbors are loud :/
[03:45] <holstein> ScottL: nah
[03:45] <holstein> i didnt get an arse-like vibe
[03:47] <holstein> to be honest, i stopped reading the bulk of that thread
[04:00] <ScottL> i REALLY want people to understand that we aren't blithering idiots and the reasons why we do things
[04:00] <ScottL> i think that is important to have educated users
[04:00] <holstein> would be nice
[04:00] <ScottL> holstein, sorry about the neighbors
[04:01] <holstein> eh
[04:01] <holstein> its cool
[04:01] <holstein> they got a loud band
[04:01] <holstein> usually pretty bad
[04:01] <holstein> tonite is much better
[04:01] <holstein> music-wise
[04:01] <holstein> sounds like they brought in an actual band
[04:03] <ScottL> lol, i guess that is good
[14:23] <ScottL> persia or TheMuso, ScottK is asking about possibly adding extras.ubuntu.com to our sources.list, is this something we might desire?
[14:24] <ScottL> i wouldn't think so myself, but i don't know all the in and outs
[14:26] <holstein> ScottL: whats in there?
[14:32] <ScottL> holstein, hmmm, i'm not sure, i thought i had an idea but i was wrong
[14:36] <ScottL> apparently it for the new application approval process
[14:37] <ScottL> i'm not sure there will be many new packages for audio that come through the new approval process
[14:37] <ScottL> i would imagine we would get more through debian thanks to quadrispro
[14:38] <ScottL> i think i would still like to get someone else's opinion with more experience though
[14:44] <holstein> ScottL: im pretty sure ralf is trying to boot the newer RT ad realtime kernels in 64studio/hardy
[14:46] <ScottL> holstein, i kinda washed my hands after his last email, he skipped all the important stuff (to me) and focused on the trivial items (to me)
[14:47] <ScottL> but it is kinda surprising that someone who appears to be that knowledgeable about kernels is rocking 64studio
[14:47] <ScottL> not that i am knocking 64studio as a distro, but rather that it really hasn't changed (my understanding) for quite a while
[14:48] <holstein> i asked for clarification, but the latest mail looked like he was having issues with hardy/64studio
[14:48] <holstein> who know whats in the 64studio repos that would not like the new kernel
[14:48] <ScottL> very true
[14:48] <holstein> yeah, 64 is dea
[14:48] <holstein> d
[14:49] <ScottL> my understanding is that daniel is working with some OEM people (indamixxx perhaps?)
[14:49] <ScottL> custom tailoring an audio distro for some hardware providers
[14:49] <holstein> i just wish the website said that
[14:49] <holstein> it doesnt
[14:49] <ScottL> lol, yeah
[14:49] <holstein> it says a new version came out several months ago
[14:49] <holstein> and its a thriving community project
[14:51] <ScottL> heh, i imagine that is rather frustrating for those who wish to still use (and get updates) for 64studio :(
[14:53] <persia> ScottL, Up to you.  I'm not a big fan of extras, but we'll see how it turns out (either way)
[14:53] <persia> !extras
[14:57] <holstein> lol
[14:58] <holstein> amazing how many emails have been sent back and forth about ralf's rig
[14:58] <holstein> and i still cant quite make out the facts ;)
[14:58] <ScottL> it sounds like extras.ubuntu.com is a glorified PPA almost
[14:59] <holstein> Oh
[14:59] <ScottL> well, if you consider the support :P
[14:59] <holstein> is that a suggestion about where we could house RT kernels?
[14:59] <ScottL> i realize there is a (streamlined) approval process
[14:59] <ScottL> holstein, probably not since i think this is a quasi-first step to getting packages into the formal archives
[15:00] <ScottL> i think this just makes it available quicker before the next release
[15:00] <persia> ScottL, It is a PPA
[15:00] <ScottL> i'm presuming some of this however, based on other comments
[15:00] <persia> Specifically https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board/+archive/ppa
[15:01] <ScottL> persia, i don't like it and i think we should decline it
[15:01] <ScottL> nothing is preventing users from adding it to their sources.list by their own volition
[15:01] <persia> It's not in any way a quasi-first step to getting packages in the archives, from the last I heard, other than that someone might decide to take a package from there.
[15:02] <ScottL> ah, okay
[15:02] <persia> For myself, I'd rather catch people wanting to package stuff we want, help them get it into Debian, and backport it, but I've not been great at supporting that workflow, so I can't stand behind that viewpoint very strongly.
[15:03] <ScottL> we have had some moderate success getting applications in debian first and then synced to ubuntu however :)
[15:04] <ScottL> and since we are still currently in an LTS version i'm not sure a proper opportunity to backport has presented itself
[15:04] <persia> We have, although, as you pointed out a few days ago, "ubuntustudio" is a huge tag on REVU.
[15:04] <ScottL> *sigh* true, sad but true
[15:05] <persia> If there were no Studio applications left on REVU, I'd be a lot firmer about my opinion.
[15:05] <ScottL> i think some of those applications need to be evaluated, some have already been pushed through debian i believe
[15:05] <ScottL> and i think jackmixer might already be in the archives (?)
[15:05] <persia> We ought archive the ones that are in Debian.
[15:07] <ScottL> if you will instruct me how to archive something in REVU i would be happy to effect the necessary ones this weekend
[15:07] <ScottL> this would align the queue with reality and give us a better understanding
[15:07] <persia> Indeed.
[15:07] <ScottL> i could also coordinate with quadrispro with the remaining ones to get them into debian as well :)
[15:08] <ScottL> quadrispro is amazing and ubuntu studio is very, very fortunate to have his efforts
[15:08] <persia> heh.  At least we're smaller than "python"
[15:08] <ScottL> lol
[15:09] <persia> OK.  For archiving: if you look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jackpanel do you see an "archive" button?
[15:09] <persia> (don't press it: it's not in Debian or Ubuntu yet)
[15:09] <ScottL> the extras repository seems like a band aid instead of improving the REVU process
[15:09] <ScottL> logging in
[15:10] <ScottL> aye, i have an archive link in the upper right
[15:11] <persia> I'm not sure that's fair.  Some of the discussions I was involved in at last UDS talked about improving the REVU process, and using the concept of an Application Review Board to do so.  We ended up with extras.ubuntu.com, which doesn't quite do that to my mind.  I'm not sure if this is a first step towards the solution or treatment of symptom rather than problem.
[15:11] <persia> Excellent.
[15:11]  * persia looks for one that needs archiving
[15:12] <persia> ScottL, Are you able to archive http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/livemix ? (we have 0.49~rc3-0ubuntu5 in the archives, so REVU is newer, but it's not completely missing, plus one can unarchive)
[15:14] <ScottL> sorry, was getting son settled, will check now
[15:14] <persia> NO rush :)
[15:15] <ScottL> apparently i did archive it
[15:15] <ScottL> and i have now unarchived it
[15:17] <persia> I'll let you decide how best to work with sbrunner to get it into Debian and up-to-date (likely for natty), and whether having it archived or not is best.
[15:17] <persia> But at least you have permission to archive, and know how :)
[15:17] <ScottL> indeed :)
[15:32] <ScottL> holstein, i believe there is a disconnect with ralf but i don't think it is a language barrier, hopefully it is his influenza
[15:34] <ScottL> but i would be interested in understanding why he says Ubuntu Studio Lucid will not boot
[15:34] <holstein> well, we're back to the issue now
[15:34] <holstein> he's about to respond to jeremy that he has an nvidia GPU
[15:35] <ScottL> holstein, i'm also building musescore this morning (it takes a looong time with an older single core)
[15:35] <ScottL> holstein, well that's a problem right there, is it not?
[15:35] <holstein> we'll see if jermemy handles it in a way that ralf can understand
[15:35] <holstein> yup
[15:35] <holstein> and that was already mentioned way back at the beginning
[15:35] <ScottL> jeremy = autostatic?
[15:35]  * holstein not sure
[15:36] <ScottL> re: mentioned way back, that could be the influenza that caused him to overlook that
[15:36] <holstein> yup
[15:36] <ScottL> although it is curious that he was a little short with others that he had mentioned his hardware specs earlier in the thread ;)
[15:36] <holstein> yup
[15:37] <holstein> thats the deal though
[15:38] <holstein> i wasnt really sure what was going on there in that thread
[15:38] <holstein> seems like it got steered to rt kernel talk instead of, x wont start
[15:39] <holstein> i think it was bad timing
[15:39] <holstein> with all the other RT talk going on
[15:39] <holstein> now that i think about it
[15:39] <holstein> i bet that was the goal at the beginning
[15:39] <holstein> 'i cant get x to start with the RT kernel'
[15:39] <ScottL> maybe :)  hopefully it gets sorted out
[15:39] <holstein> and then it got around to
[15:40] <holstein> 'NO, the rt kernel is great'
[15:40] <holstein> somehow ;)
[15:40] <ScottL> heh
[16:14] <ScottL> holstein, you were right about the nvidia :)   but why does he have an ATI card installed but disabled?  curious and curious
[16:14] <ScottL> are we heading down the rabbit hole?
[16:14] <ScottL> lol, rereading i realized that should have been 'curiouser and curiouser'
[16:15] <holstein> im going to try and set back and let jeremy have a go
[16:16] <holstein> im pretty sure the -realtime kernel in falks ppa is abogani's with the patches for the nvidia drivers applied
[16:17] <holstein> i'll try and confirm that, and offer it as a suggestion
[16:22] <ScottL> it gets tough trying to remember which version is currently released
[16:23] <ScottL> were still working (somewhat) on maverick which is about to be released
[16:23] <ScottL> but devoting lots of cycles to natty
[16:23] <ScottL> but we still support lucid
[16:23] <ScottL> and it's confusing threading different requests when working on a particular release
[16:29] <ScottL> .
[16:30] <ScottL> i built and testing musescore for ScottK
[16:30] <ScottL> it seemed to work okay (i'm not an expert or even a casual user of musescore however)
[16:30] <ScottL> and reported back to ScottK
[16:30] <ScottL> s/testing/tested


[06:15] <G> hads: I'd expect a lot more out of a Linux Distro if I was to pay the same amount of money as (additional costs for Mac Hardware + OS X costs) :)
[06:26] <chocolaate-maan> try it http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JE0D7ZA/psyBNC2.3.1_4.rar
[06:33] <zapzupnz> What was that about :S
[09:03] <Pline> join the club http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar
[19:03] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:11] <ajmitch> morning
[21:33] <chilts> morning


[01:48] <thafreak> canthus13: I think the lice VD is commonly referred to as crabs...
[01:56] <canthus13> thafreak: :D
[02:11] <BiosElement> Hmm, is this 'too' gaudy? http://bioselement.com/ >.>
[02:11] <BiosElement> I think it's at least better then the default
[02:12] <Unit193> Better then default
[02:14] <BiosElement> hah,
[02:46] <canthus13> BiosElement: Gaudy? Nah... pretentious, though.
[02:46] <BiosElement> hah
[02:47] <canthus13> bah. I totally mangled that spelling.
[02:50] <BiosElement> canthus13: Nice going. Decided to leave it default, design my own in time heh
[02:50] <canthus13> Heh.
[02:50] <BiosElement> Though, I'm impressed with www.elegantthemes.com >.<
[02:50] <BiosElement> Decent price for some good themes heh
[02:51] <BiosElement> More fun to design my own though, Once I get the friggen typography down
[02:51]  * canthus13 is happy with Piano Black. :)
[02:52] <BiosElement> Hah
[02:52] <Unit193> +1 canthus13
[03:22] <BiosElement> Yay, www.bioselement.com header fixed, now I just need to finish up the background and I'll be content for now
[03:28] <Unit193> BiosElement: Don't tell him, but I was PMing q66 and he told me his side of the story, would you mind if at some point I got yours?
[04:04] <BiosElement> Unit193: Ahh, if you like. The latest post on the site pretty much sums it though.
[04:06] <BiosElement> Unit193: http://cubecreate.com/2011/future-of-cubecreate/
[04:08] <Unit193> BiosElement: This I did see...
[04:10] <BiosElement> Unit193: Well if you have any questions, feel free to pm me or ask them here, but really I think it's just a matter of different goals and different values, too different to work.
[18:01] <dmcglone> Unit193: you here?
[18:01] <Unit193> dmcglone: Yeah
[18:01] <dmcglone> I've been playing with Drupal :-)
[18:01] <dmcglone> I'm liking it better so far :-)
[18:02] <Unit193> Theme install didn't sound so great...
[18:02]  * Unit193 read up #cubecreate
[18:02] <dmcglone> all I had to do was copy the theme to the themes dir. Only reason I couldn't install is because I don't have an ftp server configured :-/
[18:04] <Unit193> Eh, Joomla is manageable...
[18:04] <Unit193> I still may try Drupal
[18:04] <dmcglone> you should try both to see how much different they are
[18:05] <dmcglone> drupal is so much easier to manage IMHO
[18:05] <dmcglone> lot more documentation from the community
[18:05]  * Unit193 needs to find a nice theme for it...
[18:05] <Unit193> Like my Joomla one...
[18:06] <dmcglone> I was able to achieve a theme that I was trying to get with drupal just this morning, but with joomla it took me at least 4 days and I still didnt accomplish it :-/
[18:06] <Unit193> Theme was real easy with Joomla
[18:07] <Unit193> All I had to do was goto  Install theme and upload the zip
[18:07] <dmcglone> look here http://<IP_ADDRESS>/drupal
[18:08] <Unit193> Not bad, but not my type :/
[18:08] <dmcglone> Not mine either. I'm thinking of clients :-)
[18:09] <Unit193> I don't have to think of clients :D
[18:09] <dmcglone> eventually in the future, I'm going to try and not write code, but instead just customize a CMS
[18:09] <dmcglone> 100% faster
[18:11] <dmcglone> also in drupal, when in administration mode, you directly edit the page without having to use a backend, that way you can see your changes on the fly without having to have an extra site open
[18:12] <dmcglone> I'm sold on Drupal :-)
[18:16] <Unit193> http://drupal.org/project/blackpiano <--- might work
[18:18] <Unit193> canthus13: Drupal theme http://design-meets-code.de/blackpiano/
[18:20] <Unit193> dmcglone: If you happen upon a theme that looks like my Joomla them, let me know?
[18:21] <canthus13> Unit193: Cool.
[18:24] <Unit193> dmcglone: What web server do you use?
[18:45] <dmcglone> I'm using apache
[18:46] <dmcglone> Thats a nice clean theme
[18:52] <Unit193> It's also the theme we use for Wordpress
[18:54] <Unit193> I just like the other theme better...
[18:59] <dmcglone> port it :-)
[19:12] <Unit193> Hmmmm, do you know how to link to another section of the site in the Main Menu? (site.com/wordpress without using site.com)
[19:13] <dmcglone> in joomla?
[19:14] <Unit193> Na, that was normal link style
[19:14] <Unit193> Drupal wont take /wordpress or wordpress/
[19:15] <dmcglone> If you want to remove *site.com* then you have to put wordpress in the root of the server
[19:15] <Unit193> It's at site.com/wordpress
[19:16] <dmcglone> right, because wordpress isn't in the root, but if it was in the root then *site.com* would do the trick
[19:16] <dmcglone> you can't have a sub-domain without the domain :-/
[19:17] <Unit193> That may be the drupal killer right there...
[19:17] <dmcglone> it's that way everywhere, even on the WWW
[19:17] <Unit193> No, I can link to /wordpress in normal html and Joomla
[19:18] <dmcglone> oh you want to link to is, I thought you wanted to make it the *root* of the site
[19:19] <dmcglone> create a link http://site.com/wordpress (or whatever the folder name is that wordpress is in)
[19:20] <Unit193> Yes, I'm looking to link to that without using http://site.com (so I can use it internally)
[19:21] <dmcglone> if it's in a different folder on your server, you have to use http://.....
[19:21] <Unit193> Joomla it is then...
[19:22] <dmcglone> is wordpress in your drupal folder?
[19:22] <Unit193> No, I have /joomla /wordpress and /drupal
[19:23] <dmcglone> thats why the links will not work.
[19:23] <dmcglone> if you put /wordpress inside /drupal then a link /wordpress would work
[19:24] <Unit193> The link works in Joomla... I don't really want to put wordpress in drupal just so I can get drupal to see it
[19:25] <Unit193> Drupal is being dumb, this may fix it: http://www.widgetsandburritos.com/technical/programming/drupal-6-menu-relative-paths/
[19:28] <dmcglone> that might work, or have you tried using ../<file>
[19:30] <Unit193> Sweet idea, but no go...
[19:30] <Unit193> That also didn't work in Drupal 7
[19:36] <dmcglone> dang
[19:56] <Unit193> dmcglone: I think I'm going to have to dump Drupal
[20:01] <BiosElement> Unit193: /whatever should work fine if it was at the root, but otherwise that's how the web works.
[20:02] <Unit193> BiosElement: I know you know more about this then I do, but /wordpress should work even if I'm in /drupal
[20:03] <Unit193> That's why when I'm in /joomla that link still works...
[20:03] <BiosElement> Unit193: Pretty sure it shouldn't. I suspect Joomla rewrites the URL. Drupal has modules to do that, but really is it that big a deal? Just write the URL. >.>
[20:04] <Unit193> Also works in hand coded html. I need the site to work with the internal address and external (different ports)
[20:06] <BiosElement> ./wordpress should make it relative to the root as in example.com/wordpress, wordpress/ will make it relative so if you're in drupal/ it'd go to drupal/wordpress/ (I 'may' have mixed them up but it should work.)
[20:07] <dmcglone> Correct BiosElement :-)
[20:07] <BiosElement> Yay.  The latter is better and safer anyway
[20:11] <BiosElement> dmcglone: +1
[20:12] <Unit193> dmcglone: No it's not, I checked using my dyndns address (router redirects the external port to 80)
[20:12] <BiosElement> Unit193: Not sure what that has to do with anything. >.>
[20:12] <dmcglone> Unit it's using mod_rewrite You can't see it in the URL
[20:12] <BiosElement> Open up your drupal settings.php
[20:13] <BiosElement> Look for drupal's base url setting, make sure it has the subfolder in it, as I recall that should fix it.
[20:13] <dmcglone> mod_rewrite rewrites URL's on the fly
[20:14] <BiosElement> Also Unit193, the Pathalogic module also rewrites URL's akin to Joomla: http://drupal.org/project/pathologic
[20:15] <dmcglone> excellent example BiosElement
[20:15] <BiosElement> Heh, Drupal makes things easier. I actually would be driven nuts if Joomla decided to rewrite my beautiful URL's >.>
[20:16] <dmcglone> BiosElement: check this out: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/drupal
[20:17] <BiosElement> Hah, Nice
[20:17] <Unit193> So if that is true, mod_rewrite would have to be enabled?
[20:17] <dmcglone> I hacked up a javascript enabled template
[20:18] <BiosElement> If you have clean URL's, mod_rewrite is already enabled
[20:18] <dmcglone> Unit193: mod_rewrite can work on the web server without having to enable
[20:18] <Unit193> As in the httpd.conf?
[20:18] <dmcglone> all depends on how you got your apache set
[20:19] <dmcglone> I use webmin to admin my server, so I can't remember where it's at
[20:19]  * Unit193 doesn't like CMS...
[20:20] <dmcglone> are you referring to webmin?
[20:20] <Unit193> No, Joomla+Drupal...
[20:21] <dmcglone> Oh. any particular reason?
[20:21] <Unit193> +wordpress
[20:22] <BiosElement> You hate them now, but next time you search for docs on the wiki, you're loving them :P
[20:22] <Unit193> All this crap... and wordpress works with the internal IP, but not the external ip:port...
[20:22] <dmcglone> wordpress is a CMS also, just not on a scale as Drupal or Joomla :-p
[20:23] <Unit193> BiosElement: I'll like them only if I don't have to configure them...
[20:23] <dmcglone> That'll never happen anywhere :-/
[20:23] <Unit193> And you can comment out mod_rewrite and it doesn't disable it
[20:23] <dmcglone> they can't read your mind
[20:24] <dmcglone> did you restart apache?
[20:24] <Unit193> dmcglone: I'll go back to using html
[20:24] <BiosElement> Unit193: If you don't want to learn how to use them, then really you probably shouldn't be setting them up. >.< There is no such thing as a fire and forget CMS, you'll have to learn something with every new thing.
[20:25] <Unit193> BiosElement: I was planning on learning them and keeping them up... just don't think I get it at all
[20:25] <dmcglone> Unit193: This is probably my 5th attempt working with Joomla and Drupal
[20:26] <dmcglone> the more I play around with it, the more I see how things work :-)
[20:26] <Unit193> I just don't get how wordpress can work on internal but not external (when Joomla and Drupal do...)
[20:27] <dmcglone> I understand what you mean by "external"
[20:28] <Unit193> Internal = <IP_ADDRESS> -- External = <IP_ADDRESS>:port
[20:30] <dmcglone> then how does that make Joomla and Drupal the culprit when they are doing what they are intended to do
[20:31] <Unit193> It doesn't, wordpress fails here...
[20:31] <Unit193> s/wordpress/me
[20:33] <dmcglone> You got me lost :-/
[20:34] <Unit193> Issue 1. I didn't get Drupal to link to wordpress -- Issue 2. Wordpress can only be reached by internal IP (where Drupal and Joomla work with both)
[20:34] <BiosElement> Welp, enjoy your static html pages. :)
[20:35] <Unit193> BiosElement: Looks like I fail with everything else ;?
[20:36] <dmcglone> I showed you how to link Joomla to Drupal, it works the same way with wordpress
[20:38] <dmcglone> let me install WP and see if I am able to use my IP to connect to it
[20:38] <Unit193> Na, don't bother...
[20:38] <BiosElement> It's a misconfigured site root in the settings
[20:38] <BiosElement> That's pretty much the only thing it can be
[20:38] <dmcglone> thats what I'm thinking
[20:40] <Unit193> Not that I don't think so; How exactly does that allow it to work on local network?
[20:43] <dmcglone> I'm looking into it now :-)
[20:44] <Unit193> dmcglone: Don't bother, it's just me
[20:46] <dmcglone> I got it, it works here :-)
[20:47] <dmcglone> how do I get the blogroll to display on the index page?
[20:48] <Unit193> I would tell you, but I can't seem to access it at all...
[20:50] <dmcglone> check this out: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/wordpress You will notice I added a menu item "joomla"
[20:52] <dmcglone> and it's a default install, so I suspect there's something going haywire with your server config
[20:52] <dmcglone> is your server port open?
[20:53] <Unit193> Yeah, as I said, Drupal and joomla both work on the same server...
[20:53]  * Unit193 just fails hard...
[20:54] <dmcglone> Ok when you create the link in wordpress, are you using the IP or a domain name from dyndns or somewhere?
[21:05] <Unit193> I made the link to joomla as /joomla
[21:06] <Unit193> (Working link)
[21:10] <dmcglone> it's progress :-)
[21:45] <dmcglone> BiosElement: do you remember anything about creating pages in drupal?
[21:46] <BiosElement> Yes,
[21:47] <BiosElement> Ask away ^_^
[21:47] <dmcglone> how come when I create a page, I can't add images, it'll only add images if I create an article
[21:54] <dmcglone> I'm gonna go eat
[21:57] <BiosElement> dmcglone: It's CCK field related
[21:57] <BiosElement> You need to edit the page node type and add an image field
[22:07] <dmcglone> k I'll try that
[22:11] <dmcglone> Hmmm I can't find a way to edit the page node type :-/
[22:11] <BiosElement> It's in structure
[22:12] <BiosElement> You'll also need to make sure the cck module is enabled, I forget exactly what it's called
[22:12] <BiosElement> It's default tho
[22:16] <dmcglone> Got it :-)
[23:11] <dmcglone> Drupal is dang confusing now
[23:12] <dmcglone> why do they have to make it so hard to create a page and stick content on it?
[23:18] <BiosElement> dmcglone: It isn't, they make it so darn simple to have a custom CMS. If all you want are pages and pictures, go with wordpress
[23:55] <dmcglone> hehehe wordpress????
[23:55] <dmcglone> ;-)
[23:56] <BiosElement> What about it? >.<
[23:59] <dmcglone> my problem is I can't get more than 1 image on a page. thats what is frustrating me


[00:51] <Takyoji> Anyone that uses OpenWRT at all here?
[04:19] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: No, but I use DD-WRT
[18:51] <UbuntuMN-Guest> hi anyone online?


[00:17] <enigma9o7> I'm still confused about this, so I thought perhaps it was due to phased-updates being introduced since kinetic is in beta now, and `apt-mark showhold` returns nothing.  So I followed the procedure to disable phased updates outlined here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PhasedUpdates but the same thing, libc++1 is still held back, and I dunno why.
[00:18] <enigma9o7> [and it still tries to remove it and disord if i run dist-upgrade which i dont understand]
[00:25] <rbasak> Does discord depend on an older version of that package?
[00:26] <rbasak> Ubuntu doesn't ship Discord, so it's an issue for wherever you're getting your discord package from really.
[00:27] <enigma9o7> I don't think so.  It appears I can manually update that package, which brings in a couple of its dependencies too.   https://termbin.com/pagr
[00:27] <enigma9o7> (to the first question re older version of package)
[00:28] <enigma9o7> As to second one, I thought that at first, it was discords fault, wanting older verison.  But now I'm not so sure.  If I just try 'sudo apt update' I get the one package held back, nothing about discord.
[00:28] <enigma9o7> And I dunno why thats held back, cuz if it was held back for phased updates, I think I've disabled that.
[00:29] <rbasak> If you use "apt policy" to get exact package versions of the relevant packages, then you can say "apt install foo=1 bar=2" etc to specify exactly what you think should work, and then apt will tell you exactly why that's not possible.
[00:30] <rbasak> There was a bug in apt's solver BTW. Did you update apt?
[00:31] <enigma9o7> https://termbin.com/nbiw
[00:31] <enigma9o7> I didnt update apt seperately, but other than this one held back package, everything is up to date.
[00:32] <enigma9o7> And specifying the exact version does the same t hing as in the eralier paste, it's happy to install it along with its dependencies.
[00:34] <rbasak> I mean specify the versions of packages *at the same time*
[00:34] <rbasak> Then apt will tell you why they conflict.
[00:35] <rbasak> Like ask it to do what you think dist-upgrade should allow you to do, and it'll tell you why a pacakge has to be removed.
[00:36] <enigma9o7> The only reason I tried dist-upgrade is because libc++1 was held back during upgrade.
[00:36] <enigma9o7> So asking it to install libc++1 is what I expect it to do.
[00:36] <enigma9o7> And it does already try to install the new version whether I specify it or not.
[00:36] <rbasak> You also expect it to not remove discord.
[00:36] <enigma9o7> Ah right, of course I don't expect that.
[00:36] <rbasak> So say "apt install libc++1=X discord=Y"
[00:37] <enigma9o7> Sure, but it's the same, but ok.
[00:38] <rbasak> BTW, phased updates do not apply to kinetic/devel
[00:38] <enigma9o7> They didnt before, but I thought perhaps n ow we're beta thats what's happening.
[00:39] <enigma9o7> https://termbin.com/3zdr
[00:39] <enigma9o7> (which was exactly the same as when I just did apt install libc++1 two pastes ago)
[00:40] <enigma9o7> So if definintely no phased updates, and no conflict with anything, and apt-mark doesnt think its held, then why is it being held back?
[00:40] <rbasak> You said you were doing dist-upgrade before, but your pastebin says you used upgrade.
[00:40] <rbasak> "apt upgrade" will not remove packages
[00:40] <rbasak> (if that is required to bump a package version)
[00:41] <enigma9o7> But that doesnt seem to be required.
[00:41] <rbasak> That's why "apt upgrade" is holding packages back - because upgrading them would require other packages to be removed.
[00:41] <rbasak> Your "apt install" line in your latest paste does propose to remove packages to achieve what you expect.
[00:41] <enigma9o7> Ah ok.  and maybe one of those is a discord ddpendency!
[00:42] <enigma9o7> finally things making sense!
[00:42] <enigma9o7> lemee check
[00:42] <enigma9o7> thanks btw
[00:42] <rbasak> Try "sudo apt install libc++1=1:15.0-55.1ubuntu1 discord=0.0.18 libc++-1-14" for example
[00:43] <enigma9o7> wait no what i said is wrong
[00:43] <enigma9o7> cuz if it was a discord dependency then it'd want to remove it when i do the manual install
[00:43] <enigma9o7> This makes no sense at all argh.  And why would I want both of those installed at once?
[00:44] <rbasak> That'll make apt tell you why they cannot be installed at once.
[00:44] <rbasak> Probably they conflict with each other.
[00:44] <enigma9o7> but I dont want both installed at once
[00:44] <rbasak> And discord is involved somehow.
[00:44] <rbasak> Anyway, I need to go.
[00:44] <rbasak> I think it's pretty clear that discord's requirements are involved here.
[00:45] <rbasak> I think you're in for a world of pain if you're trying to run the development release but also with third party apt repositories.
[00:45] <rbasak> You're inevitably going to bump into more of these cases.
[00:45] <rbasak> This sort of dependency hell is why snaps exist.
[00:46] <enigma9o7> Discord doesn't offer an apt repository, they make you redownload every new version manually.   But ok, right now it's easy to work around, I just want ot understand why it saying it's held back.
[00:47] <enigma9o7> And I think at least you've told me, it will hold back updating things that will remove other packages.
[00:47] <enigma9o7> But, the thing I can't figure out is why it wants to remove discord if I do the dist-upgrade.
[00:47] <rbasak> But doing that is necessary to follow the development release.
[00:49] <enigma9o7> https://termbin.com/mp94 manually worked fine
[00:49] <enigma9o7> I really don't understand.
[00:50] <rbasak> discord is scored by apt policy only at 100 because it's not available in an apt repository
[00:50] <rbasak> Probably it's being deprioritized because apt assumes it comes from a single apt archive but no longer ships.
[00:50] <rbasak> This whole third party apt (or deb) is a huge hack. Even more for the development release.
[00:50] <rbasak> You're just bumping into the chaos that ensues.
[09:20] <fizzled> I did something daft with 22.10 desktop, If I recall I installed what I thought was the latest AMD 4500U driver. How do I fix this message: W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/amdgpu/vcn_4_0_4.bin for module amdgp
[09:20] <fizzled> u
[17:02] <arraybolt3[m]> alkisg: OK so there's a regression in LXQt that appears to have been caused by Kinetic updating from Qt 5.15.5 to 5.15.6. I'm trying to see if it goes away with 5.15.5, so I can git bisect. So I have the Qt code from Git, I've set it to 5.15.5, compiled, then installed. Now I just want to make it available system-wide so that I can see if it fixes the regression.
[17:04] <arraybolt3[m]> Currently in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/50local, I have "export HELLO=there", "export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/Qt-5.15.5/lib", and "export PATH=/usr/local/Qt-5.15.5/bin:$PATH". Both $PATH and $HELLO are now set and I can view them with `echo` in QTerminal, however LD_LIBRARY_PATH continues to be blank.
[17:29] <howarth> Is anyone else seeing iwlwifi throwing 'CSR_RESET = 0x10' and failing to load often when booting?
[17:30] <howarth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1975394 looks very similar although that bug report doesn't mention the kernel version used
[17:30] -ubottu:#ubuntu-next- Launchpad bug 1975394 in linux (Ubuntu) "iwlwifi sometimes failes to initialze on Z690" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[17:33] <lotuspsychje> howarth: that bug filer mentiones kernel 5.17, kinetic is on 5.19
[17:36] <howarth> Basically half the time I boot under kinetic, I get that failed startup of the intel wireless driver
[17:36] <howarth> Never had that under 22.04 LTS
[17:37] <howarth> 05:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX210/AX211/AX411 160MHz (rev 1a)
[17:38] <lotuspsychje> yeah we had a lot of bugs on that chipset before
[17:39] <lotuspsychje> file a new bug perhaps howarth
[17:40] <howarth> should that go under linux-generic or linux-firmware?
[17:40] <arraybolt3> Probably linux-generic.
[17:41] <arraybolt3> (I don't think Ubuntu can do anything about the firmware code and if the device sometimes works the firmware is probably there already.)
[17:45] <lotuspsychje> howarth: ubuntu-bug linux
[17:54] <howarth> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1992194
[17:54] -ubottu:#ubuntu-next- Launchpad bug 1992194 in linux (Ubuntu) "random CSR_RESET errors in iwlwifi appear under kinetic" [Undecided, New]
[17:54] <howarth> done
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> tnx looking good howarth
[17:56] <howarth> My guess is that some obscure new wifi feature got enabled between the kernel releases
[17:56] <howarth> good luck figuring out which one to disable
[18:10] <arraybolt3[m]> howarth: If it's a regression in the code, git bisect should turn it up easily enough.


[06:48] <ochosi> Unit193: hey there sparky2. i wasn't there anymore, but i think i saw this issue before (jbicha reported it on github as well) and this is why i migrated with greybird release numbers to match the gtk3 scheme
[06:50] <Unit193> Mainly that 'greybird-gtk-theme' may show up in Debian.
[06:52] <ochosi> sure, that's totally fine


 Valorie, I agree with earlier frustration as these issues are difficult to pinpoint the problem packages.
[01:10] <valorie> by chance I just got the onboard sound to work again, maybe because I had to shut down earlier when we lost power
[01:10] <valorie> there was a PA update yesterday I think
 PA?
[01:10] <valorie> but I wish it would just go back to what it was at the beta -- plug in headset, Just Works
 pulseaudio?
[01:11] <valorie> unplug headset, onboard sound Just Works
[01:11] <valorie> PulseAudio
[01:11] <valorie> I guess I could start a Google Meet and see if the cam still works
 Yes, that's the same problem I am fighting. Sometime I have to re-plug my headset dongle 3 times before it works correctly.  Testing neon dev unstable works fine with plasma 5.20, so if it's a KDE issue then fixed are in the pipe.  I don't think its a kernel issues as I Ubuntu 20.10 works fine with the same hw.
 sure, I can help test your  cam if you want.
[01:16] <valorie> it worked yesterday
[01:18] <valorie> yep, works today
 on 20.04 my web cam mic would occasionally turn my voice into Donald Duck.  I had to re-connect the usb plug to fix it or use a different browser.
[01:18] <valorie> you don't even have to join a meeting, just say 'yes, I give permission to use my cam'
[01:18] <valorie> and it starts up
 Ok, very good, then ignore my meeting link in the PM.
[01:22] <valorie> lol
[01:22] <valorie> I host meetings all the time for my genealogy society
[01:23] <valorie> I do like BBB better
[01:23] <valorie> it seems friendlier
[01:23] <valorie> but gMeet works
[01:23] <valorie> and you don't have to install a crappy app
 More flexible with whiteboard type stuff.  I just tried gMeets for the 1st time and it seemed straight forward.
[01:24] <valorie> yep
 For work, I use both Teams and Zoom.  Those apps consume 100's of MB of RAM.  But they work really well on Linux.
[01:25] <valorie> when the lockdowns were imposed, my society already had the non-profit free GSuite, and a friend and I tested it out and advocated for us to use it
[01:25] <valorie> now we have more than one meeting per week, and people from around the US attending
[01:25] <valorie> it's pretty cool
[01:25] <valorie> I hate zoom
 Funny, I like using both of those on Linux better than on my Windows work laptop.
[01:26] <valorie> except the name, which is great
[01:26] <valorie> I hate the app
[01:26] <valorie> it isn't great in the browser, but not horrible
 Zoom is updated on a weekly/bi-weekly basis and sometime they break things.  So I always keep a known good working copy.
[01:27] <valorie> some groups don't allow me to join via the browser tho
 Teams is updated via  PPA, where Zoom requires manual updating.
[01:27] <valorie> I've not used teams
 Due to the excessive number of teams and active conversation I have with people from work, all the Teams processes consume ~800MB  of RAM!
 In a half hour, I have my last Zoom meeting for today ...Working for a global company mandates long days at times...
 Several reconnections of my plantronics headset never succeeded in correctly configuring both mic and  headset, so I am back to strongly considering reverting back to 20.04.... :(
[02:51] <valorie> it worked in the beta
[02:51] <valorie> :(
[02:52] <valorie> usually by messing with the "advanced" settings in pavucontrol I can get things to work
[02:52] <valorie> or sometimes by restarting Chrome
[11:22] <BluesKaj> Hi all


[02:22]  * DarkWave43302 is not here at present: Gone away for now.
[02:22]  * DarkWave43302_AF has returned.
[02:23]  * DarkWave43302 is not here at present: Gone away for now.
[04:09] <DanaG> Argh, I suspended one laptop and then resumed it... and all my touchpad settings are gone!
[04:09] <DanaG> What gives?
[04:09] <DanaG> Even if I go to Mouse preferences and disable tapping..... it still does tapping.
[04:10] <DanaG> And synclient no longer works!
[04:10] <DanaG> That's just plain screwed up.
[04:11]  * RAOF throws launchpad.net at DanaG
[04:11] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and on that laptop, even though the network passphrase is stored in the Login keyring.... it still asks me to unlock it.
[04:17] <DanaG> Aah: "Keep in mind that, even in a perfect world, pam_keyring will still not work if you set gdm to autologin to your main account."
[04:19] <DanaG> aah, I figured it out.
[04:21] <DanaG> Fixed it.
[04:26] <DanaG> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=439386
[04:26] <DanaG> ah.
[04:30] <DanaG> Yay.
[04:30] <DanaG> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/config/x11-input.fdi
[05:01] <alex_mayorga> any Inspiron 1501 owners?
[05:11] <LSD|Ninja> Try asking about your specific problem with it
[05:14] <RAOF> Anyone here do dual-head with metacity?
[05:30] <alex_mayorga> just wanting to get Bug 121111 confirmed?
[05:31] <valiant8086> Hi all 142 users. Is this the ubuntu support channel? There's so many of them I haven't a clue if I picked the one indicated by the download page
[05:31] <RAOF> valiant8086: You're after #ubuntu; this is discussion of the development release, Intrepid Ibex.
[05:39] <valiant8086> Hi.
[05:40] <valiant8086> er, sorry, didn't need to say hi again, heh. but anyway, I'm downloading 8.04. Is this the right place to ask a question about dual booting with a system that's already dual booting xp and vista?
[05:41] <RAOF> valiant8086: Not really; you'd be after #ubuntu.
[05:41] <valiant8086> darn, heh, so just plain ubuntu. wonder if I can just get mirc to connect directly instead of looking through over 300 channels
[05:41] <gnomefreak> triple booting is a pain atleast it ws for me
[05:41] <RAOF> valiant8086: I'd suggest that "/join #ubuntu" is likely to work.
[05:42] <RAOF> It's a bit noisy, but you should hopefully be able to get an answer there.  If not, ubuntuforums is a good resource.  And there's always google; most questions have been asked and answered before.
[05:42] <valiant8086> yeah and it really should be for me since dual booting vista and xp is already a pain
[05:43] <valiant8086> ok, I think I'll part and see if I can go confuse someone
[05:43] <valiant8086> latesx
[05:43] <valiant8086> er
[05:43] <valiant8086> rofl
[05:51] <DanaG> Argh, it's way hard to tweak the touchpad tap time when even normal clicking is
[05:51] <DanaG> ........
[05:51] <DanaG> lagging.
[05:57] <DanaG> Argh, stupid nvidia.
[05:58] <alex_mayorga> DanaG: does shutdown works for you?
[05:59] <DanaG> Nope, it goes to logon screen for me.;
[06:01] <alex_mayorga> Bug 250506 it is
[06:02] <alex_mayorga> it's rather popular that bugger
[06:04] <Fredd> how come its not an issue to add 3rd party soucres with the "hardy" tag to ibex?
[06:05] <RAOF> Fredd: What makes you think it isnt? :)
[06:05] <Fredd> well i added the wine 1.1.2 sources for hardy and they are working fine
[06:05] <Fredd> other than wine phails
[06:06] <RAOF> Yup, that'll be the case.  Sometimes.
[06:07] <RAOF> Basically, packages from other series aren't guaranteed to be installable (because they depend on packages not in Intrepid), or less often because a lib broke its ABI.
[06:07] <JollyGiant> RAOF: although WINE itself is rather resilient to such things if you override the package dependencies
[06:08] <JollyGiant> You might end up missing features because of missing and/or changed libraries but it should still somewhat work
[07:00] <DanaG> RAOF: I want to try out nouveau on that old laptop, but xserver-xorg-video-nouveau depends on the unavailable linux-nouveau-modules; how do I build that?
[07:00] <DanaG> It doesn't show up in module-assistant, and I don't remember offhand how to build modules while not in a full source tree dir.
[07:00] <RAOF> DanaG: drm-modules is the thing you should find in module-assistant.
[07:01] <RAOF> DanaG: The nouveau wiki has instructions, but basically you just need to build the drm-modules module-assistant package.
[07:01] <DanaG> aah, drm-modules, not nouveau.
[07:01] <RAOF> At some point I'll play with dkms and remove the module-assistant fun entirely.
[07:04] <DanaG> Cool.
[07:04] <DanaG> So the drm-modules 'provides' nouveau-modules, right?
[07:04] <RAOF> Right.
[07:04] <RAOF> It does so for hysterical raisins.
[07:04] <DanaG> Dang, now I'm kinda' hungry.
[07:05] <DanaG> =P
[07:06] <DanaG> So, what is nouveau currently capable of?
[07:07] <RAOF> Fast 2d, dual head.
[07:07] <RAOF> Oh, and bicubic Xv rescaling.
[07:08] <RAOF> If you feel the need to play with unfinished stuff, it'll do OpenArena pretty well.  On nv4x, at least.
[07:08] <DanaG> Aah, it'll be good not to have LAAAAG even on things as simple as switching tabs in a console.
[07:08] <DanaG> nv4x?  Can't say I know nvidia's numbering very well.
[07:09] <RAOF> Geforece 6 & 7.
[07:09] <DanaG> For example, my GeForce Go 7600 is G73... but I didn't know the 'NV#" name.
[07:09] <RAOF> nv4x.
[07:09] <DanaG> I'll be using Nouveau on the one that was using the 71.xx drivers for the GeForce 4-is-really-a-2 420 Go.
[07:09] <unfold> (off topic)  has anyone here dual booted ubuntu w/ leopard?
[07:10] <RAOF> Specifically, that's the number that nouveau reads from the chip on start.
[07:10] <unfold> :)
[07:10] <RAOF> I presume that your geforce 4MX will be a nv2x chip.
[07:11] <RAOF> (TNT2 is nv04, the earliest card supported by nouveau)
[07:11] <crdlb> no, that's TNT
[07:11] <RAOF> Oh, I lie then.
[07:11] <RAOF> TNT2 is...?
[07:11]  * crdlb has one :>
[07:12] <crdlb> 05 or 06
[07:12] <RAOF> Well, then, nouveau goes all the way down to TNT.
[07:14] <RAOF> crdlb: How does nouveau go on your TNT?
[07:14] <fargiolas> hi, I need an help/suggestion about intrepid upgrade
[07:15] <fargiolas> update-manager -d was killed (my fault :P) before the end
[07:16] <fargiolas> rerunning it did nothing, it tried to upgrade packages but nothing happened because there was some error with apt libs
[07:17] <fargiolas> it has no crash recovery system..
[07:17] <fargiolas> I almost solved everything (I think) running dpkg --configure -a, apt-get -f install and upgrading everything
[07:18] <fargiolas> but I'd like to know if update-manager does anything else after package upgrading that I should do manually
[07:19] <danbhfive> fargiolas: i think it might remove obsolete packages
[07:19] <fargiolas> autoremove?
[07:19] <danbhfive> well, it would remove obsolete packages, not quite the same as apt-get autoremove
[07:20] <DanaG> Hmm, I see no visible difference between nv and Nouveau on that old laptop.
[07:20] <DanaG> Wait, dpms is working better than nv, at least.
[07:20] <fargiolas> danbhfive: ok but I think it calls dpkg/apt to do it right? so there is surely a way to do things manually
[07:21] <DanaG> Aah:
[07:22] <DanaG> .. but that's for 3D, right?  I don't really plan to do 3D on it.
[07:22] <danbhfive> fargiolas: yeah, dpkg.  but, you would have to know which packages to remove, or use something like deborphan
[07:22] <RAOF> DanaG: ??
[07:22]  * fargiolas looks at deborphan
[07:23] <danbhfive> fargiolas: regardless, clean installs are best  : P
[07:24] <RAOF> DanaG: It should do dual-head better than nv, I think.  It might be a bit faster than nv, too, but your card is both less powerful and less well supported than my nv4x :)
[07:24] <fargiolas> danbhfive: sure but I have no time do it now and I needed a couple of new libraries..
[07:25] <DanaG> Oh, it does do 2D composite better.
[07:25] <fargiolas> anyway update-manager *should* have some kind of crash recovery system, it's too critical to fail if killed
[07:25] <DanaG> Aah, geforce2 is nv11 and nv14; 4mx is 17 and 18.
[07:25] <danbhfive> well then I suspect that you wont care much about remove obsolete files.  If they conflict with anything, they will get removed anyway
[07:26] <DanaG> GeForce 6 (NV4x)
[07:26] <DanaG> GeForce 7 (G7x)
[07:26] <DanaG> that's what it lists as names.
[07:26] <RAOF> DanaG: From where?  Because G7x is also nv4x ;)
[07:26] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and now it's not mad-flickery like it was before.
[07:26] <DanaG> Look in xorg log.
[07:27] <RAOF> DanaG: Yeah.  There's both nv4x and G7x
[07:27] <DanaG> (II) NOUVEAU driver for NVIDIA chipset families :    (and that list).
[07:27] <RAOF> DanaG: Oooh.    16.
[07:28] <RAOF> 565?  Crazy.
[07:28] <DanaG> ... and only 2.5 megs of video RAM.
[07:29] <DanaG> 2.5 megs of video RAM wasn't enough to even DRAW the desktop at 32-bit, regardless of LCD type.
[07:29] <fargiolas> another thing, did anything change with restricted drivers, kernel module management? I had nvperfkit nvidia drivers installed manually and intrepid uses them with no complain and lists them in restricted manager.. that surely did not happen in hardy
[07:29] <DanaG> I'm not entirely sure about that panel, actualy.
[07:30] <DanaG> Odd: no 3D DRI.  Direct Rendering: no.
[07:30] <RAOF> Yeah, that's right.
[07:31] <RAOF> You'll need to do more than install my packages to get 3d (and 3d is hideously unfinished for < nv3x).
[07:31] <RAOF> I don't distribute the 3d part in deference to upstream's wishes.
[07:32] <DanaG> Aah.  What's the reasoning?
[07:32] <RAOF> You can play with the gallium-0.1 branch of their mesa tree, if you want; it's fairly easy (nouveau wiki has details)
[07:32] <DanaG> Eeh, on a GPU that old, on a spare system, it's not worth bothering with.
[07:32] <RAOF> DanaG: The reasoning?  It's horribly unfinished, the devs know it, and shipping it in a package gives an untrue impression of supportedness.
[07:33] <RAOF> Basically, they don't need testing of the 3d; there's tons of easy work to do.
[07:33] <DanaG> Aah.
[07:34] <DanaG> Zwhoa, suspend and resume worked.
[07:35] <DanaG> Yes, "Zwhoa"
[07:35] <RAOF> What, with nouveau?  LIES!
[07:35] <DanaG> Yeah, with nouveau.
[07:35] <DanaG> Perhaps Ubuntu's scripts did something about it.
[07:35] <DanaG> Heh, and my ssh session into the box also resumed.
[07:36] <RAOF> Hm.  Maybe the 'support some sort of suspend/resume with < nv3x' patches got into the main tree.
[07:37] <DanaG> Does Nouveau get along with nvidiafb?
[07:37] <fargiolas> another little question: is there a way to get boot messages back while waitning for the uvesafb bug to be fixed?
[07:37] <RAOF> Very much no.
[07:38] <RAOF> fargiolas: For you, yes.  Just remove the 'splash' from your grub line.
[07:38] <fargiolas> RAOF: no splash in the grub line, "ro quiet vga=791"
[07:38] <RAOF> fargiolas: Oh, then you can remove the vga bit.
[07:39] <RAOF> That's not going to work until uvesafb is fixed!
[07:39] <fargiolas> RAOF: thanks that's what I wanted to know :P (too lazy to try it ;)) let's remove that vga bit then
[07:47] <DanaG> Odd... after DPMS power off and restore... it goes back to being all flickery.
[07:48]  * RAOF is frankly amazed that it survived a suspend.
[07:48] <RAOF> Oh, the other thing nouveau can get you is kernel modesetting on nv5x, should I build drm from that particular branch.
[07:49] <DanaG> NV5?  What's that one?
[07:49] <DanaG> Oh yeah, I think the flickering is just the LCD warming up.
[07:49] <DanaG> This LCD in that laptop is really odd...
[07:49] <RAOF> nv5x. AKA g80/g90, AKA geforce {8,9}
[07:49] <DanaG> Picture this: take every set of adjacent frames sent to the thing, and apply a horizontal-blinds effect between them.
[07:50] <DanaG> Aah, I don't own such a card; after my 7600, I'm going to ATI next.
[08:13] <LSD|Ninja> Is Network Manager failing to automatically reconnect to a wireless network after a remote disconnect (as in, an AP/router crash) a bug or a feature?
[08:21] <LSD|Ninja> Also, why does an auto-hidden task bar cause windows to move upward/downward when it rolls in/out?
[08:41] <DanaG> Hmm, does the packaged Murrine now do transparency?
[08:42] <DanaG> I'm getting semitransparent menubars and such.
[08:42] <Sebastian> Is http://phpfi.com/344807 a known issue?
[08:43] <Sebastian> (Or maybe there is no issue)
[08:43] <RAOF> DanaG: Yes.
[08:45] <vpelcak> hi all
[08:48] <zniavre> DanaG:  and roundness menu for application with plugins (rhythmbox   eg)
[08:49] <DanaG> Roundness menu?
[08:49] <zniavre> yes   :o)
[08:49] <DanaG> I'm asking what you mean; that's not a yes or no question.  =P
[08:49] <DanaG> Argh, Xorg is using 40% CPU, and making everything slow.
[08:49] <zniavre> menu with radius
[08:50] <zniavre> wait a shaot 2sec
[08:50] <zniavre> shot*
[08:51] <zniavre> http://img28.picoodle.com/data/img28/3/8/18/f_radiusmenum_50466df.jpg
[08:51] <DanaG> Ugh, at 40% CPU, it's way not usable.
[08:51] <DanaG> Aah, "rounded"
[08:51] <zniavre> sorry
[08:51] <zniavre> rounded  >added to brain
[08:52] <DanaG> Or you could say "rounded corners on menus" or something like that.
[08:52] <zniavre> ok
[08:53] <DanaG> I wish I could get the Murrine engine to match the Nodoka engine as closely as looks good (and I actually LIKE the rounded scrollbars in Nodoka).
[08:53] <DanaG> http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
[08:53] <DanaG> http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka-2.png
[08:54] <DanaG> There's a slight difference there.
[08:55] <DanaG> Is nouveau not doing acceleration on Composite, or is it just that that video chip is weaksauce?  (heh, weaksauce.)
[08:56] <RAOF> DanaG: Nouveau _should_ be accelerating Composite; check in Xorg.0.log that it's enabled (and ensure that ShadowFB isn't).
[08:56] <DanaG> It's also a weak CPU; P4-Celeron 1.6GHz.
[08:58] <DanaG> I like orange; it's a cool color.
[08:59] <DanaG> It says composite is enabled; enabling overlay with smart blitter fallback.
[09:00] <RAOF> Why not pastebin the log; that's always fun.
[09:00] <zniavre> Nouveau the free nvidia driver is in intrepid ?
[09:01] <bazhang> !info nouveau
[09:01] <zniavre> :o(
[09:01] <zniavre> thank you bazhang
[09:01] <LSD|Ninja> zniavre: Don't bother with it yet, you're better odff sticking with nv
[09:01] <RAOF> !nouveau | zniavre this is what you're thinking of
[09:02] <LSD|Ninja> Nouveau doesn't do 3D yet and only barely works in 2D. Without 3D support it really is no better than nv
[09:03] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: "Barely does 2d" isn't really accurate, unless you're talking about nv5x.
[09:04] <LSD|Ninja> RAOF: Even the team behind it don't guarantee the 2D half, they say as much on their site
[09:04] <RAOF> Right.  Guarantee != barely works.
[09:05] <RAOF> It's certainly still experimental, and things can (and occasionally do) break.
[09:06] <RAOF> But it's quite usable for 2d right now; much of the breakage is 'it doesn't build against $NEW_KERNEL_VERSION'
[09:06] <LSD|Ninja> Point still stands though, if you're going in to it thinking it's a silver bullet for nVidia ills you're going to be sorely disappointed
[09:06] <RAOF> Right.
[09:07] <DanaG> I wouldn't mind the binary drivers on this old laptop.... but they don't work at all.  Won't even start Xorg.
[09:07] <RAOF> Although I'd be happy to recommend it to anyone who's satisfied with nv (and has a card older than a geforce 8)
[09:07] <DanaG> s/this/the/
[09:07] <DanaG> I'd say, use nouveau only for things not supported by 173 or 177 drivers.
[09:07] <LSD|Ninja> It has no advantage over nv atm though, there's really no point in going to all the trouble to get it going
[09:08] <DanaG> Isn't it supposedly better at 2D?
[09:08] <DanaG> ... or is it not really?
[09:08] <RAOF> It's faster, and has better quality stuff.  And possibly does dual-head better, but I haven't tested recent nv.
[09:08] <DanaG> I'd believe that it does look better.
[09:08] <RAOF> Certainly on an 18-bit panel it will; it's got better dithering.
[09:09] <LSD|Ninja> It still looks/feels as crap as nV here
[09:09] <RAOF> It's got blob-equivalent dithering.  I'm not quite sure why nv doesn't do that, actually.
[09:09] <DanaG> Heh, now some workstation laptops are coming out with full 24-bit panels.
[09:09] <DanaG> That's 8 bits per color.
[09:10] <LSD|Ninja> I doubt most people could really tell teh diff between an 18 bit and a 24 bit panel. Those that can probably shouldn't be using LCDs anyway.
[09:10] <DanaG> HP has a "DreamColor" desktop monitor with 10 bits per pixel (and thus 30 bit color).
[09:10] <DanaG> oh yeah, pastebin: http://pastebin.com/f3724ac39
[09:10] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: You're right; my external LCD is 24bit, my laptop is 18bit.  Once proper dithering is turned on, I can't tell the difference (in their colour reproduction, at least).
[09:11] <RAOF> It's easy to notice broken dithering, though, and nv has broken dithering.
[09:12] <DanaG> I do find it funny that my 17" laptop LCD is so much dimmer than the LCDs on every one of the 4 or so old laptops we have around here.
[09:15] <DanaG> Eeh, it's not "so much"... but it definitely is dimmer.
[09:16] <Lunks> Hey =) some keys are missing from my keyboard since going to intrepid.
[09:16] <Lunks> I mean, just one.
[09:18] <bronson> Drat, the FF print dialog shows up all black in Compiz.
[09:18] <bronson> Looks like I need to turn desktop effects off in Intrepid too.
[09:18] <LSD|Ninja> At least you can turn them on :P
[09:18] <Lunks> And I also got a fireworks show on second restart instead of the ubuntu loading screen.
[09:18] <DanaG> Somebody needs to put that Evdev thingy in the topic of the channel.
[09:18] <Lunks> DanaG: already set as evde
[09:18] <Lunks> DanaG: already set as evdev*
[09:18] <bronson> LSD|Ninja, true.
[09:19] <bronson> I'd trade with someone who really wants effects.
[09:19] <bronson> I don't really care about them so if they're buggy at all, off they go.
[09:20] <bronson> erm, evdev thingy?
[09:22] <DanaG> yeah, setting keyboard to "evdev managed keyboard"
[09:22] <DanaG> Lunks: whaddaya' mean by "missing" -- that can actually be interpreted or defined several ways.
[09:23] <Lunks> missing as in I press it and it's just ain't there.
[09:23] <Lunks> missing as in I press it and it's just ain't there.
[09:23] <DanaG> What key?
[09:23] <Lunks> haha that should be tricky
[09:23] <Lunks> / question mark
[09:24] <Lunks> well, /
[09:24] <Lunks> question mark on shift. well, I believe you know what I'm talking about. :P
[09:24] <DanaG> Aah.
[09:24] <DanaG> Funky.
[09:25] <Lunks> So far, I've only missed this one.
[09:26] <Lunks> You are probably aware of this, but apart from it, keyboard is set correctly.
[09:35] <DanaG> 1:35 AM here.  Time for bed.
[09:36] <Lunks> haha
[09:37] <DanaG> Well past time, in fact.
[09:37] <Lunks> 05h37, bed time converted on intrepid
[09:38] <DanaG> !info fancontrol
[09:38] <DanaG> odd.
[09:39] <DanaG> Somehow I have a 'fancontrol' running.
[09:39] <DanaG> !find fancontrol
[09:39] <DanaG> aah.
[09:39] <zniavre> speedfan may be ?
[10:35] <s0u][ight> hi guys
[10:46] <vpelcak> hi all
[10:48] <vpelcak> I upgraded to Ibex (to help with bugreporting), but now i cannot boot. I ran failsafe and it stopped at configuration of network interfaces. How can i skip it? I sonnect to wpa encrypted wifi by using knetworkmanager after login.
[10:50] <Lunks> vpelcak: have you tried safe mode?
[10:50] <Lunks> oh you did
[10:50] <Lunks> you can probably use a livecd and chroot to your installation
[10:51] <Lunks> then remove networks from startup (forgot the cmdline)
[11:12] <AnRkey> is there a reason why a qt based app cant see any printers in 8.04.1?
[11:14] <joaopinto> AnRkey, this channel is for intrepid , not Hardy
[11:17] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: please ask in #ubuntu
[11:17] <gnomefreak> or better yet #kubuntu
[12:47] <mifritscher> hi
[12:47] <mifritscher> have 2 new problems
[12:47] <mifritscher> 1. the backliht keys don't work (ibm x61t)
[12:47] <mifritscher> 2. the mosue optioins are ignored now
[12:47] <mifritscher> (need them too configure the idle mouse key + stick act as a wheel)
[12:51] <mifritscher> ah, and a 3 problem: glxgears is a lot slower
[12:52] <vpelcak> Lunks: Sorry for delayed reply, I was busy. Is there any other way to interrupt network setup during boot?
[12:52] <mifritscher> but openarena works fine
[13:08] <mifritscher> where can I but these settings now?
[13:21] <vpelcak> mifritscher: try "glxinfo | grep render"
[13:26] <mifritscher> k
[13:26] <mifritscher> seems to be ok
[13:26] <mifritscher> direct rendering: yes
[13:26] <mifritscher> the renderer is intel dri
[13:26] <mifritscher> the only error message is Failed to initialize TTM buffer manager.  Falling back to classic.
[14:20] <mifritscher> a 4. Problem: Rotation lasts a lot longer now...
[14:20] <Pici> !bugs
[14:27] <mifritscher> Pici: was that an answer to mee?
[14:27] <mifritscher> I'm already active there ;)
[15:25] <IdleOne> have not received any updates in a couple days. is this normal or is there some sort of freeze going on?
[15:26] <Pici> My updates have been coming in fine..
[15:26] <IdleOne> hmmm
[15:26] <IdleOne> I was not able to boot up this morning with latest kernel
[15:27] <IdleOne> but last update I got had some xorg updates in it also
[15:27] <IdleOne> so not sure which is the issue
[15:28] <IdleOne>  2.6.26-5-generic shows me the splash screen and load bar but then I get a black screen
[15:28] <IdleOne> so I assume it is xorg issue
[15:29] <IdleOne> Pici, when was your last update?
[15:31] <IdleOne> strange I just started update-manager and am getting 13 updates. but not getting the notification icon in panel
[15:31] <Pici> IdleOne: I just got one no
[15:31] <Pici> w
[15:31] <IdleOne> guess the update icon is broke
[16:27] <mvo> IdleOne: have you applied the udpates yet? if not, could you please run /usr/share/update-notifier/apt-check ?
[16:27] <Lunks> vpelcak: not sure. I mean, you have to have access to your hdd
[16:27] <Lunks> and if you have it, just using a livecd should be the easier, if not, the only way
[16:28] <IdleOne> mvo, : /usr/share/update-notifier/apt-check: No such file or directory
[16:29] <skel> can anyone with a digg account please check out this link and vote for it if you feel its worthy: http://digg.com/software/Open_Source_software_sold_with_violated_GPL_license =]
[16:30] <IdleOne> firefox is acting up big time.
[16:31] <mvo> IdleOne: sorry, /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check is the correct path
[16:31] <IdleOne> mvo, ok it's done
[16:31] <IdleOne> no updates
[16:33] <IdleOne> be back later
[17:15] <hdevalence> Does Kubuntu Intrepid use KDE 4.1?
[17:18] <JontheEchidna> Yes
[17:18] <hdevalence> JontheEchidna: sweet, thanks
[17:19] <JontheEchidna> You're welcome
[17:19] <Turski> is kde3 still available for interpid?
[17:19] <JontheEchidna> Nope
[17:20] <JontheEchidna> Only where a stable release of an app doesn't exist, like k3b for example
[17:20] <JontheEchidna> or konversation
[17:20] <JontheEchidna> etc
[17:20] <Turski> ok..
[18:37] <qaws> hi, are there any updates in Intrepid last week?
[19:12] <Muppeteer> Hai guise
[19:32] <asfak> adept manager is not working in kub8.10 alpha4
[19:34] <asfak> no gdebi like in Kubuntu 8.10 ?
[19:42] <fyrestrtr> is the new theme finalized?
[20:00] <Ayabara> !info digikam-kde4
[20:43] <e\ectro_> /quit
[20:59] <PolitikerALT> I got a problem with firefox/swfdec (+flashblock): Whenever a flash item appears, I get an additional window (with no title). If I close it, firefox closes/crashes (?) too.
[21:09] <PolitikerALT> my system boot time is really long; especially vol_id it taking a long time - can anybody have a glance at my bootchart and maybe tell me what to do? http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8355/intrepid200808168ls0.png
[21:30] <e\ectro_> looks like there is an issue with cairo-dock
[21:36] <fargiolas> is there any known problem with nautilus and drag and drop? I cannot move files nor copy them nor change icon position with the mouse
[21:51] <dupondje> Is there a channel for the network manager ?
[22:39] <mifritscher> re
[22:39] <mifritscher> found the solution about the middle button-scroll: http://mvogt.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/xorg-evdev-and-emulatewheel/
[22:39] <mifritscher> perhaps that could be included?
[23:20] <tomasko> did adobe flash plugin + firefox just suddenly getting really slow for anyone else?
[23:21] <tomasko> sites that worked well with flash just a few days ago suddenly display _all actions_ (clickable buttons, streaming video, etc.) very slowly
[23:25] <Lunks> Hey, I've got new weird things Intrepid has been making to my computer.
[23:26] <Lunks> Instead of a loading screen, I get retro-art (really cool b/w patterns)
[23:27] <Lunks> And fn+f7, fn+f8 which controls brightness aren't detected by Ubuntu, so no fancy brightness level
[23:35] <tomasko> Lunks: you may need to configure such things with xev and xmonad
[23:36] <Lunks> I'm sorry, I didn't understand tomasko
[23:36] <tomasko> if you're using gnome, i can't really say what you need to do to configure it. the only reason i'm on intrepid is that kde 4.1 is on it stock
[23:39] <tomasko> er, sorry not xmonad, xmodmap
[23:39] <Lunks> But what does xev do
[23:39] <tomasko> xev gives you keycodes to keys like fn and f7
[23:39] <fyrestrtr> if you are on a thinkpad, just install thinkkeys
[23:40] <Lunks>     XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
[23:41] <tomasko> you use xmodmap to assign them to names like Menu, etc. found in a header file on your system... the name of which is escaping me
[23:41] <Lunks>     state 0x0, keycode 97 (keysym 0xff24, Romaji), same_screen YES,
[23:41] <tomasko> then in your window manager, you would ask it to use whatever "Menu" maps to as a shortcut for an action like open up the menu, etc.
[23:41] <tomasko> Lunks: yes, the 97 is relevant
[23:42] <tomasko> Lunks: google around for xev and xmodmap, there are tons of resources on this
[23:42] <tomasko> hmm, well again.. giving but not getting anything. later
[23:43] <Lunks> And he didn't ask anything