[01:34] <bluesabre> brainwash: still in progress, first fixes for lp 1320560
[01:34] <bluesabre> first batch of fixes (utopic) uploaded here: https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560
[01:34] <bluesabre> the xscreensaver one might be minimized a bit more
[01:37] <bluesabre> bbl
[03:17] <writing_novel> Hello all
[03:18] <writing_novel> I am trying out Xubuntu and am unhappy with the mangling of the XFCE interface. The entire idea behind XFCE (originally) was to retain the GNOME2 look and feel, which stands absent in Xubuntu. Is there any way I can engage to normalize the XFCE back to the GNOME2 look it was created to represent?
[03:23] <skellat> Are you sure you haven't confused us with MATE?
[03:24] <writing_novel> NO. I was told that Ubuntu had an XFCE type interface and it was called Xubuntu
[03:24] <writing_novel> Mate is NOT ubuntu
[03:24] <writing_novel> I know that is a fact unless you are confused about it.
[03:25] <writing_novel> Mate is NOT an ubuntu product at all
[03:25] <writing_novel> if you read MATE's website you can learn that
[03:25] <Unit193> Nor is Xfce, Ubuntu uses it.
[03:25] <Unit193> https://ubuntu-mate.org/
[03:25] <writing_novel> you have entirely confused me
[03:26] <writing_novel> I am looking to run an actual Ubuntu system with a normal XFCE interface
[03:26] <writing_novel> thats all I want
[03:26] <writing_novel> is that possible?
[03:26] <skellat> Yes
[03:26] <skellat> To do that you would have to install from the minimal installer disc...
[03:26] <skellat> ...and then select the xfce4 metapackage
[03:27] <writing_novel> OK, I willing to do that!
[03:27] <Unit193> Quite, or you caan remove the Xubuntu packages and reset your config, normally by deleteing ~/.config/
[03:27] <writing_novel> I do not know what packages to remove
[03:28] <skellat> Unit193: That's usually a lot more catastrophic.  A clean install from mini.iso would probably be safest.
[03:28] <writing_novel> ok
[03:28] <writing_novel> I am willing to reinstall it
[03:28] <writing_novel> I am using a Virtual Machine to do it anyway, its no big deal
[03:29] <Unit193> skellat: Basically just xubuntu-default-settings, xubuntu-artwork, and xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin too for extra credit.
[03:29] <skellat> Unit193: That won't catch any Suggests that were installed, though, if memory serves.
[03:30] <writing_novel> I am trying to find this mini.iso thing on the website
[03:30] <writing_novel> no luck yet
[03:30] <Unit193> skellat: Suggests aren't installed, perhaps you mean recommends?  That'll still give you more of a stock Xfce.
[03:30] <Unit193> !mini | writing_novel
[03:32] <writing_novel> Is there a CD I can download so I could do an install like that on a machine that were not internet connected?
[03:32] <writing_novel> that I could aggregate everything I needed to do an offline install?
[03:33] <writing_novel> brb - need to run to the washing machine
[03:39] <writing_novel> back
[03:40] <writing_novel> By the way the menu at the bottom is missing too!
[03:41] <writing_novel> (the "Mac like" menu I mean)
[04:52]  * Unit193 scratches head at gtk-theme-config.
[07:46] <knome> writing_novel, the "mac like" menu you are asking for is not in the default xfce installation, nor in the default xubuntu installation.
[07:46] <knome> writing_novel, fwiw, the idea behind xfce never was to retain the GNOME2 look
[08:08] <brainwash> bluesabre: does the xubuntu/xfce session export GDMSESSION?
[08:10] <brainwash> or lightdm
[11:27] <slickymasterWork> elfy: re: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t14:39 no you don't, that font isn't installed by default
[11:28] <slickymasterWork> you have to do it yourself. You can get it here: http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/Bitstream-Vera-Sans-Mono
[11:39] <slickymasterWork> Unit193: what exactly does http://paste.openstack.org/show/cZed8nUINAyyEi0HxMKP/ do?
[11:48] <Unit193> Changes how and when the validation is run?
[11:49] <slickymasterWork> lol, are you asking me?
[11:49] <slickymasterWork> but I'm assuming that in relates to the translations, right?
[11:49] <slickymasterWork> s/in/it
[11:50] <Unit193> Mainly, but also validates the English ones now too.
[11:51] <slickymasterWork> ah, ok
[11:51] <slickymasterWork> thanks for the clarification U
[11:51] <slickymasterWork> Unit193:
[11:51] <elfy> mmm - so why use that font
[11:52] <slickymasterWork> because that's what was considered the default template for all the xfce documentation elfy
[11:59] <slickymasterWork> elfy: FWIW I've marked bug 1365815 as a duplicate of bug 1366206
[12:00] <elfy> slickymasterWork: I wish you hadn't - they are different bugs :)
[12:01] <slickymasterWork> hmmm, different in what way?
[12:01] <slickymasterWork> I think I'm able to revert it anyway
[12:01] <elfy> they are completely different things - 1365815 is just about there being no wallpaper at the try/install screen
[12:01] <elfy> I undid the dupe
[12:02] <elfy> and THAT bug is a dupe of one we had during trusty/saucy at times
[12:02] <elfy> just can't find it :)
[12:03]  * slickymasterWork admits he's puzzled
[12:03] <elfy> 1366206 is after you've worked around 1365815
[12:03] <slickymasterWork> yeah, I see that now
[12:04]  * slickymasterWork now sees the difference between the two
[12:05] <slickymasterWork> btw elfy, thanks for opening the xfpm bug
[12:06] <slickymasterWork> lunch time ->
[12:09] <elfy> slickymasterWork: seems that is a bug in vm only - unless you can say differently
[13:42] <Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages?field.name_filter=xfdashboard boop.
[13:43] <slickymasterWork> nopes elfy, I wouldn't. I'm also inclined to VM bug only
[13:49] <brainwash> speaking of bugs.. where are the people who test dev releases and report bugs? or is xubuntu 14.10 almost bug-free? :)
[13:50] <Unit193> I just test 'em, I don't report 'em.
[13:50] <Unit193> ...Nah, I just nag Sean about them. ;)
[13:52] <brainwash> so, even when apport appears, you simply click on the close button?
[13:55] <Unit193> Heh, kidding, I just don't like reporting, still do it.  Generally when it's apport, for some reason or another it's unreportable, so can't file one.
[14:06] <elfy> brainwash: I think there are about 5 people who test dev
[14:06] <elfy> probably not a good idea to go there just now ;)
[15:04] <ochosi> Unit193: thanks, copied
[16:01] <slickymasterWork> knome ping
[16:01] <knome> slickymasterWork pong
[16:02] <slickymasterWork> just a quick doubt
[16:02] <slickymasterWork> I've merged yesterday jjfrv8 proposal -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/revision/240
[16:02] <slickymasterWork> but it isn't showing in the brach, do you have any idea why
[16:02] <slickymasterWork> ?
[16:02] <slickymasterWork> s/brach/brach
[16:03] <slickymasterWork> sihg
[16:03] <elfy> :)
[16:03] <slickymasterWork> bah
[16:03] <slickymasterWork> branch
[16:03] <knome> what isn't showing?
[16:04] <slickymasterWork> jjfrv8's new string
[16:04] <knome> did you update the pot?
[16:04] <slickymasterWork> yeaps, revision 241
[16:04] <knome> revision 241 isn't available in the main branch
[16:05] <knome> only your own branch..
[16:05] <slickymasterWork> yes, correct, that's because the branches diverged, so I had to fix it
[16:05] <knome> i also see revision 242 on your branch, but not the main branch
[16:05] <slickymasterWork> I believe it was fixed with revision 242
[16:05] <slickymasterWork> so that's the problem
[16:05] <knome> main branch has revision 240 though...
[16:05] <slickymasterWork> how do I go about fixing that?
[16:05] <knome> main branch being lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:05] <knome> well get the main branch
[16:05] <knome> run the command
[16:06] <knome> and run: bzr push lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:06] <slickymasterWork> which command the commit one?
[16:06] <knome> *sighs* ;)
[16:06] <knome> first, get the latest main branch:
[16:06] <knome> bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:06] <knome> then, run the translation pot update script:
[16:07] <knome> ./scripts/get-pot.sh
[16:07] <knome> then do a commit
[16:07] <slickymasterWork> so far that's what I've done
[16:07] <knome> bzr commit -m "Update translation template"
[16:07] <slickymasterWork> and the push
[16:07] <slickymasterWork> then
[16:07] <knome> then push it to the MAIN branch:
[16:07] <knome> bzr push lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:07] <slickymasterWork> that's what I did knome
[16:08] <knome> nope, you have pushed your changes twice to your own branch
[16:08] <knome> that is, lp:~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs
[16:08] <knome> as we see at https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs
[16:08]  * slickymasterWork could almost swear that he pushed it to the main branch
[16:09] <slickymasterWork> ok, I'll go through the motions once again, when I get home
[16:09] <knome> but as we can see at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/utopic (alias lp:xubuntu-docs), there's no revision 241
[16:09] <knome> i can do that too
[16:09] <slickymasterWork> let me try to do it once again knome, just to see if I'm doing things correctly, or not
[16:10] <knome> done.
[16:10] <knome> sorry...
[16:10] <knome> you can do that the next time
[16:10] <knome> you did everything else correctly except the last bit
[16:10] <knome> note that if you have pulled from your own branch
[16:10]  * slickymasterWork is sad
[16:10] <knome> then the default :parent is that branch
[16:10] <knome> so if you want to force pushing to the main branch, you'll have to type lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:11] <slickymasterWork> yeah and the strange thing is that I don't have any doubts about the all process
[16:11] <knome> :)
[16:11] <slickymasterWork> can't imagine what might have gone wrong
[16:11]  * knome shrugs
[16:11] <knome> everything else seemed to have gone with no problems
[16:12] <knome> since the commits were in your branch
[16:12]  * slickymasterWork scratches his head
[16:14] <slickymasterWork> knome, this was the command I issued -> bzr commit -m "bla bla" && bzr push lp:xubuntu-docs
[16:14] <knome> yeah,
[16:14] <knome> something still went wrong...
[16:15] <slickymasterWork> I'm getting the idea that Unit193 is right about bzr
[16:15] <slickymasterWork> it's evil
[16:15] <knome> well it's probably true in some way with all version control systems
[16:15] <slickymasterWork> :)
[16:18] <slickymasterWork> knome, as you're at it, can you please also push to the main branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/revision/241
[16:18] <slickymasterWork> beacuse that's the one which have the updated changelog
[16:20] <knome> hrhrr :)
[16:21] <knome> done
[16:21] <slickymasterWork> you're a gentleman
[16:21] <slickymasterWork> (me bows
[16:22]  * slickymasterWork bows
[16:23] <knome> yw
[17:10] <pleia2> knome: all good for publishing donate page?
[17:11] <knome> i would probably consider the page title
[17:12] <knome> it's ok to put it in the navigation as "Donate"
[17:12] <knome> but as title, it's a bit meh
[17:14]  * pleia2 shrugs
[17:16] <pleia2> other suggestions?
[17:17] <knome> i would try to link it with "helping xubuntu"
[17:18] <slickymasterWork> knome, pleia2, sorry for stepping in, but why not "Donate now - Support Xubuntu" as a title?
[17:20] <pleia2> so the point of this page is that we don't actually accept donations but people really want a donate button
[17:20] <pleia2> as long as that's communicated, I don't care about the title :)
[17:21] <pleia2> I also don't know how to have a different link for title and link text
[17:21] <slickymasterWork> well, knome knows how to do that, for sure
[17:24] <knome> yep
[17:24] <knome> "Help us build Xubuntu?" ?
[17:24] <knome> err -?
[17:24] <knome> or create
[17:24] <knome> or sth
[17:24] <pleia2> how useful are any of these things really?
[17:25] <knome> it *looks* better than "Donate"
[17:25] <pleia2> money is kind of meh, we want contributors
[17:25] <knome> right
[17:25] <knome> well
[17:25] <slickymasterWork> that's almost our motto for contributors
[17:25] <knome> we do list contributing as an option
[17:25] <pleia2> but if all you have is money...
[17:25] <knome> so, in a way "donate" is not even appropriate
[17:25] <knome> "Help Xubuntu and friends" ?
[17:26] <pleia2> my problem with "help xubuntu.." is that it doesn't help a whole lot ;)
[17:26] <knome> i understand
[17:26] <pleia2> I don't want to steer them away from contributing
[17:26] <slickymasterWork> that does sound kinda of needy .
[17:26] <knome> "Don't help Xubuntu, but buy a better conscience"
[17:26] <pleia2> that's how you actually help xubuntu
[17:26] <knome> that's better then...
[17:26] <pleia2> lol
[17:26] <knome> "Give your money away"
[17:27] <slickymasterWork> most people do that this days
[17:27] <knome> "How to spend money but not help Xubuntu at all"
[17:27] <pleia2> "don't pour a bucket of ice water on your head"
[17:27] <slickymasterWork> lol
[17:28] <knome> somebody is riding on the elevator ALL THE TIME
[17:28] <knome> stupid person
[17:28] <knome> stupid sound
[17:28] <pleia2> same person?
[17:28] <knome> who knows
[17:28] <knome> but i'd imagine so
[17:28] <pleia2> haha
[17:29] <knome> "Donation options"
[17:29] <slickymasterWork> hey, why not "Pitch in"
[17:29] <knome> slickymasterWork, they are not pitching in in xubuntu
[17:29] <knome> *in the pleia2 voice*
[17:29] <knome> they aren't all really even donations.
[17:29] <pleia2> :P
[17:30] <knome> if you buy stickers, it's commercial activity.
[17:30] <slickymasterWork> well, they'd be endowing xubuntu with something
[17:30] <knome> unixstickers.com makes money out of it.
[17:30] <knome> then we might get some too
[17:30] <knome> for giving away
[17:30] <pleia2> it eventually results in something being donated to us :)
[17:30] <knome> so it doesn't really help us..
[17:30] <knome> i guess
[17:30] <slickymasterWork> that was my impression
[17:30] <knome> "yay, i got free stickers for all of my hard work since 2008"

[17:31] <slickymasterWork> lol, I'm going to redecorate now, finally
[17:31] <knome> could make a shirt out of that
[17:32] <knome> "i contributed to foss for 6 years and all i got was the sticker sticked to this shirt (disclaimer: t-shirt self-paid)
[17:32] <knome> "
[17:32] <knome> i don't know
[17:32] <knome> what do we want to tell them?
[17:32] <knome> if "help xubuntu" isn't communicating the right thing, then "donate" isn't either
[17:32] <pleia2> the stickers help our marketing team, not our contributors
[17:32] <knome> maybe we should switch the content the other way
[17:32] <knome> talk about contributing first
[17:33] <knome> then "if you can't contribute..."
[17:33] <pleia2> sure
[17:33] <knome> then maybe we could call the page "help xubuntu..."
[17:33] <knome> does that sound any better to you?
[17:33] <pleia2> ok
[17:34]  * slickymasterWork still thinks that it sounds kinda of needy
[17:35] <pleia2> we are needy :D
[17:36] <slickymasterWork> :)
[17:36] <slickymasterWork> why not "Support Xubuntu..." knome ?
[17:36] <knome> because they are not supporting xubuntu...
[17:37] <knome> *in the pleia2 voice*
[17:37] <pleia2> my concern is that they'll click that instead of contribute
[17:37] <pleia2> but if we add contributing to the first line, it's ok then
[17:37] <elfy> if no-one can decide what this is actually about - then perhaps the decision should be whether to actually do it
[17:37] <pleia2> plus I kind of wanted an obvious donate button, but I got out voted :)
[17:38] <pleia2> elfy: people on social media are always asking how to donate money, I don't want to advertise the bounty program without somewhere to point them
[17:38] <elfy> donate money to Xubuntu - they can do that at ubuntu.com - kind of
[17:38] <pleia2> elfy: yes, did you see the draft donate page?
[17:39] <pleia2> have to log in: xubuntu.org/?page_id=2712
[17:40] <elfy> yea I did
[17:40] <elfy> don't particularly agree with the order
[17:40] <slickymasterWork> thing is that first paragraph clashes with what we intend to mean
[17:41] <slickymasterWork> in the title that is
[17:42] <elfy> title -> perhaps a question rather than statement
[17:42] <elfy> Can I donate?
[17:42] <elfy> no - not exactly - but you could do this
[17:42] <pleia2> wfm
[17:43] <elfy> bountysource should be at the bottom though - that one 'might' help xubuntu - but on the other hand it might not as well
[17:43] <slickymasterWork> yeah, that might be a good idea to go around the all issue
[17:43] <pleia2> elfy: could argue that for any of them
[17:44] <elfy> yea - but the Canonical one - we can get some - we just have never asked
[17:44] <elfy> stickers - if someone buys one we get a % of them
[17:45] <elfy> bounty - if someone gets money and we don't actually make any use of that - it goes to xfce not us
[17:45] <pleia2> for certain values of "us" (two of our members participate in it)
[17:45] <elfy> yea
[17:45] <elfy> anyway - not really interested enough to argue anymore
[17:46] <knome> heh
[19:58] <brainwash> Noskcaj: maybe we should wait until xfdesktop 4.11.8 is ready and mre it to trusty
[19:58] <Noskcaj> ok
[19:58] <brainwash> so we don't run into any regressions like https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11078
[19:59] <brainwash> which has a patch
[22:06] <Unit193> bluesabre: xfpm now supports 0.7.0, so changed the dep for the daily build to reflect this.
[22:14] <writing_novel> I am experimenting with "Ubuntu GNOME" to see how well it works in classic mode, the initial load of it (absent the installation of the fallback debs) still did not really give a basic GNOME2 style menu, but I will see what the fallback does, perhaps it will give me the full GNOME2 style menuization and that.
[22:15] <writing_novel> I have to say, it is nice to have a virtualized environment to test all this stuff!?!
[22:16] <writing_novel> Seems like Metacity wins the prize!
[22:17] <knome> writing_novel, unless you have a discussion that is related to xubuntu development, can you take it to an offtopic channel, like #xubuntu-offtopic? thanks.
[22:20] <writing_novel> Well I was testing it with standard Ubuntu, but yes, I had been working with Xubuntu earlier to see how XFCE would look. I was quite surprised to see that Xubuntu did not have a standard XFCE interface but something very bastardized.
[22:22] <writing_novel> Being interested to have a GNOME2 style interface, and seeing how close XFCE is on Debian, I presumed Xubuntu would instantiate similar functionality, however, it was shocking in the absence of such equitable function and I was met with that silly whisker junk. Thus, yesterday, I was asking here how to get a more standardized GNOME2 look from XFCE which most XFCE installs seem to yield.
[22:22] <writing_novel> shocking=shockingly
[22:23] <knome> i noticed the discussion, and even replied, but it isn't in the scope of this channel.
[22:26] <writing_novel> Well what the scope of the discussion was, was how to get a GNOME2 like interface, that is and was what I was asking from the start (yesterday), although initially, Xubuntu was my intended vehicle to arrive at that configuration.
[22:26] <writing_novel> But, again, I do appreciate everyone's input and I now know what I need to get the configuration I desire with Ubuntu
[22:27] <knome> if you need help in configuring xubuntu, you can ask the support channel #xubuntu
[22:27] <writing_novel> (woops, the initial discussion I referenced was in #Xubuntu not the devel group!)
[22:27] <writing_novel> I apologize I didn't even realize I had clicked in here
[22:27] <writing_novel> I much have been watching it yesterday
[22:27] <writing_novel> sorry
[22:27] <knome> that's okay :)
[22:28] <knome> and following/lurking in here is fine as well
[23:27] <bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, I need to upload lxpanel to the ppa, we have dependency wait on trusty
[23:28] <Unit193> Ahhh, right.
[23:28] <Unit193> Fun times.
[23:28] <knome> lxpanel? X|
[23:28] <bluesabre> xfpm build deps
[23:28] <knome> since when did we start maintaining lxde packages
[23:28] <bluesabre> because we are nice folks
[23:28] <Unit193> knome: xfpm lxpanel plugin, we/I had to fix lxpanel's package to include headers.
[23:28] <knome> bluesabre, DEP?
[23:28] <bluesabre> build-dep
[23:29] <knome> right...
[23:29] <knome> hr hr
[23:29]  * bluesabre goes to maintain gnome-something


[05:10] <jose> guiverc_t: mind if I add my blog post about social media mgmt vs. community mgmt?
[07:49] <guiverc> jose, you don't need my permission.
[07:50] <jose> I don't, but I like for my peers in a project to have voice.
[07:52] <guiverc> yep, perfectly understood & thanks jose
[22:33] <tsimonq2> I'll take a look at UWN a bit later and send out to editors.


 well, it just piled on to a crappy day anyway
 Can you connect it to Ethernet and do a dist upgrade
 Nope, no connectivity at all
 I'm installing elementary os to see something
 Which machine?
 The gaming rig
 Bc networking works in Windows
 Hm...
 Xd
 I'm in Hollywood right now
 Any suggestions
 What brings you to Hollywood?
 Huh, elementary is having the same issue
 Do you happen to have a USB to Ethernet adapter?
 I do, actually
 Same
 Wow... Did it happen in 17.10?
 Nope
 And the elementary build I'm using is 16.04
 The only constant in this is the hard drives... But would that really cause an issue like this?
 Try installing a 17.10 and upgrading to 18.04
 That's what I get for buying a cheap ssd
 Sdc is where it's installed to
 note to self, patriot makes good ram... not so good at ssd's
 perhaps this is a good excuse to fill that m.2 slot
 https://www.amazon.com/ADATA-SU800-M-2-128GB-ASU800NS38-128GT-C/dp/B01M9K0N8I/ref=sr_1_7?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1535246242&sr=1-7&keywords=ssd+128&refinements=p_n_feature_three_browse-bin%3A14027457011
 Not a bad idea
 T-Mobile Hacked — 2 Million Customers' Personal Data Stolen … https://thehackernews.com/2018/08/t-mobile-hack-breach.html
 Social security?  That sounds so asinine.
 They use it to link you to the phone.  It's regulations
 @AdamOutler, Well if you want them to check your credit.
 But to get a cell phone or cell phone service bit isn't required.
 Yea for the credit part.
 It is actually required for all post-paid plans. They also use it to report accounts to collections if a person runs on their bill aside from financing/etc
 Pre-paid of course is not bound to this as if you dont pay your bill, they just shut off your service. Nothing is owed at that point
 A mass shooting is in progress in Jacksonville
 guys already dead
 Windows isn't that special.  XOrg can do it too!
 @KMyers I want to love it. The keyboard is beautiful xD I suck at typing in it though
 The buttons do feel great though


[13:34] <DarkTrick> hello
[13:34] <DarkTrick> is it possible to run wayland on xubuntu (smoothly)?
[13:34] <DarkTrick> 19.10
[13:35] <diogenes_> DarkTrick, i don't think so.
[13:36] <DarkTrick> diogenes_: is there a specific reason?  xfce is not compatible?
[13:36] <brainwash> it's not written for wayland
[13:37] <diogenes_> neither xfce nor lightdm supports it, though dm is not a problem.
[13:38] <diogenes_> and as i've heard, wayland is not even on a TODO list of xfce.
[13:39] <DarkTrick> So I guess the necessary changes are pretty severe?
[13:39] <DarkTrick> -?   +(?)
[13:41] <brainwash> yes, it is a huge task
[13:42] <brainwash> furthermore, both variants (X and wayland) would need to be maintained
[13:43] <DarkTrick> thank you both for the input, diogenes_, brainwash


[01:06] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: jujuqabot/jujud-operator:2.8-beta1.3113  image pull failed
[01:06] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: ho?
[01:47] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11084 got his pr to fix CaaS bootstrap on develop, +1 plz
[04:12] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: am in meeting but i will ping soon to talk about the build num PR
[04:13] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: yep, gonna grab some food, back in ~15mins
[04:27] <kelvinliu> wallyworld: im back, ping me when ur ready.
[05:07] <wallyworld> kelvinliu: free now?
[05:08] <kelvinliu> yes
[05:08] <wallyworld> ok, am in standup
[10:26] <stickupkid> manadart, https://github.com/juju/python-libjuju/pull/381
[10:30] <manadart> stickupkid: Done. I have uncovered a an issue with CMR and the allwatcher, which is affecting the model cache :(
[10:30] <stickupkid> manadart, YESSS! ho?
[10:35] <manadart> stickupkid: Yep.
[12:52] <stickupkid> rick_h, this will unblock pylibjuju for future jujus https://github.com/juju/python-libjuju/pull/382
[13:15] <icey> is it just me or does Juju not create security group rules for IPv6 when you open_port something? I don't see an option to do IPv6 either
[13:15] <icey> (on OpenStack)
[13:16] <rick_h> icey:  ipv6 and juju :( we don't officially support it honestly
[13:17] <hml> icey: it should, i remember seeing the code
[13:17] <hml> icey: but also what rick_h  said
[13:17] <icey> rick_h: color me sad; if there's IPv6 on the network, Juju shows that in the status, but opening the port doesn't seem to actually create the security group rule for it :-/
[13:18] <hml> icey: it could be that the security groups are created for ipv6 when a juju unit is created, but it doesn’t follow thru the open_port code
[13:19] <icey> hml: yeah - I see the egress rule created for <IP_ADDRESS>/0 and ::/0, but the open_port ingress rule is only created for ipv4
[13:19] <icey> oh well, call it wishlist :)
[16:23] <nammn_de> manadart: are my thouhts correct? For finding all the bindings in that space I would do the following:  get all endpointsbindings, look at each binding map (inverse) and see whether the space is used. or do we have an easier/faster way given the database layout
[16:32] <manadart> nammn_de: That's how I understand it. achilleasa has been all up in that and might know an alternative.
[16:35]  * achilleasa thinks
[16:35] <achilleasa> nammn_de: is that for an application?
[16:36] <manadart> achilleasa: Yes.
[16:40] <achilleasa> nammn_de: I think the easiest approach is to create one of these: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/state/endpoint_bindings.go#L499 and then iterate the returned map from Map (for spaceIDs) or MapWithSpaceNames
[16:42] <achilleasa> (just pass nil as the last arg of the ctor to get what's in the DB)
[16:53] <nammn_de> achilleasa: great, thanks! Yeah was looking at the code you send before that. Was planning to do that similiarily
[18:16] <nammn_de> manadart achilleasa: can i always deduce the application name from the endpointbinding _id? e.g. "32fee8a8-650b-46ed-8664-4d91d99f4b7c:a#haproxy" -> haproxy this would reduce the queries i need to make
[18:19] <hml> nammn_de: https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/state/endpoint_bindings.go#L272  so, yes
[18:20] <nammn_de> hml: great, thanks!
[18:20] <hml> nammn_de: but that’s not necessariily the best way to go
[18:20] <hml> nammn_de: usually there’s a better way than looking at a doc id
[18:21] <nammn_de> hml: my current approach to list all the applicationbindings using a space was the following: `get all endpoints  from collection` -> `check whether binding to that space exists` -> if yes ->  deduce application name
[18:22] <nammn_de> couldn't think of a shorter way to get all applications running with a space binding
[18:24] <hml> nammn_de: all endpoint bindings have a space.  even if it’s just the default
[18:24] <hml> nammn_de: depends on what you mean by “running”
[18:24] <hml> explicitly using?
[18:24] <nammn_de> hml: yeahh I meant by searching for a specific space
[18:24] <nammn_de> e.g. show-space
[18:24] <nammn_de> shows all applications bindings using that space
[18:25] <nammn_de> show-space db-space, should show all applications which have endpoints bound to db-space
[18:25] <nammn_de> so show-space _default(or alpha?) should show all, if nothing bind yet, i think
[18:27] <hml> nammn_de: bbiab, i have a phone call
[18:28] <nammn_de> hml: sure, thanks :)
[18:32] <hml> nammn_de: back phone call moved.
[18:32] <nammn_de> hml: we can HO quick
[18:32] <nammn_de> maybe more clear
[18:32] <hml> nammn_de: looks like there isn’t a clean way to do that query.
[18:33] <hml> nammn_de:  sure - daily?
[18:33] <nammn_de> hml: comming
[18:53] <roadmr> do newer jujus support ipv6?
[21:30] <evhan> Hi folks, I'm writing a bundle but juju isn't liking my YAML, saying that the "bundle overlay file used deprecated 'services' key, this is not valid for bundle overlay files". I've just tried again with `applications` and that seems to have worked. Is this the right fix?
[21:31] <rick_h> evhan:  yea, services were renamed to applications back in juju 2.0 and I think overlays came along and nudge folks in the right path
[21:31] <evhan> Cool, ty.
[21:43] <roadmr> do newer jujus support ipv6? 🤔
[21:44] <rick_h> roadmr:  it supports it by ignoring it basically. It's not fully supported tbh. If the machines come up with it we make sure not to go boom
[21:44] <rick_h> roadmr:  what are you trying to do?
[21:44] <roadmr> using juju on a network with ipv6 only? :)
[21:44] <rick_h> roadmr:  I think icey was asking about firewall support earlier today so curious if it's the same issue or something else?
[21:45] <rick_h> yea...not sure that's ever been done
[21:45] <roadmr> rick_h: something else - I think simpoir's home network (and all his configuration) are ipv6 and he was trying to use juju with lxd provider and got a "juju doesn't ipv6"
[21:45] <rick_h> at one point we had a customer driving it as a use case but then they didn't need it and it never got on the roadmap
[21:45] <rick_h> yea
[21:45] <roadmr> rick_h: no big deal tbh, mostly a "just curious, will it work?" kind of question :)
[21:46] <rick_h> no sorry, always wanted to get that going
[21:49] <roadmr> no problem :)
[21:50] <roadmr> at least I'm happy that the anarchy situation got resolved, apparently one of the controllers was reset and leaders were elected everywhere
[21:59] <babbageclunk> roadmr: sorry I didn't think to check the snapshots until after you'd blown away the model!
[21:59] <roadmr> babbageclunk: hehe no problem!
[21:59] <roadmr> fwiw we never redeployed - we got held up by the controller troubles, but when one of them was reset trying to solve that, leaders magically appeared
[22:03] <babbageclunk> roadmr: ah, yeah, that would do it too. It seems like the cause was unit 1816 still running (for some unknown reason). But if the controller went down, it wouldn't have been able to log back in, and might have removed itself from systemd. Would be worth checking the unit files on your machines?
[22:27] <roadmr> sure, I can check with verterok tomorrow


[16:20] <Guest14388> hello there, I have a question about mounting a harddrive...
[16:40] <FunnyLookinHat> Ah bunk - wish they wouldn't come and go so quickly...  :)