[14:14] <InHisName> that's IT, nothing since 3PM yesterday ??  Not even a good morning ?     I have 4 logins still logged in.  How can I find out more about each of those logins ?   I've just rebooted so only may have 1 or 2 abandoned ones that haven't closed properly.
[14:32] <InHisName> s/last/The 'last'/
[14:44] <erstazi> InHisName: ghost the rest
[14:45] <andrew> ghost?
[14:45] <erstazi> yeah
[14:45] <andrew> is he talking about irc, or locally?
[14:45] <andrew> on his computer?
[14:45] <erstazi> oh
[14:48] <erstazi> InHisName: if you want to end user sessions then run: skill -STOP -u <username>
[15:35] <InHisName> erstazi: that would work if all usernames were unique.   I have 4 'rich's and one testuser.   I might need more than just one for critical operation of ubuntu.  Not sure how to identify which one is the one I use for desktop operations etc.
[16:12] <ssweeny> InHisName: kill testuser, then sign in as testuser and kill all the rich's, then sign out of testuser and sign back in as rich
[16:12] <ssweeny> easy peasy
[16:13] <BeckySanderlin`x> peasy's easy
[16:13] <InHisName> No way in linux to find out more info before all the killing to execute ?
[16:15] <ssweeny> InHisName: kill 'em all and let ${DEITY} sort 'em out
[16:16] <InHisName> No manual entry for DEITY                      rich@ubuntu:~$ man ${DEITY}                                         What manual page do you want?                             rich@ubuntu:~$
[16:17] <InHisName> Where to find more about your reference to ${DEITY}  is that defined in ubuntu ?
[16:22] <InHisName> on a different tack:  on reading TCP/IP Drinking Game site,  Question: What is CPIP?   Hint RFC 1149
[16:35] <MutantTurkey> cpip?
[17:10] <jedijf> InHisName: i think there is something wrong with your install
[17:10] <jedijf> x21@x21cli:~$ echo $DEITY
[17:10] <jedijf> satan
[17:10] <jedijf> mine works ^^^
[17:24] <ChinnoDog> Anyone a fan of GnuCash or other linux compatible accounting software they can recommend?
[17:27] <ssweeny> gnucash FTW
[17:27] <ssweeny> homebank isn't bad either
[17:28] <pleia2> kmymoney2 is ok
[17:36] <InHisName>   Q:  Why hasn't RFC 1149 been ratified?    Hint:  RFC 1149 specifies an unusual encapsulation of IP.
[17:37] <InHisName> answers at 3
[20:17] <InHisName>     Q:  Why hasn't RFC 1149 been ratified?    Hint:  RFC 1149 specifies an unusual encapsulation of IP.   A:  The Avian Transmission Protocol has only been implemented once so far : http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/   Credit:  Matthew Wilcox
[20:17] <PennBot> Title: Bergen Linux User Group (at www.blug.linux.no)
[20:18] <InHisName>     Q:  What is CPIP?    A:  Carrier Pigeon Internet Protocol (see RFC 1149).   Credit:  SL Baur
[20:32] <InHisName> OK, I've logged off my desktop and left testuser as remote desktop on other machine.  Now logged back in and each new 'login' after the first corresponds to another terminal screen opening.    Mystery solved in roundabout way.
[20:39] <JonathanD> what mistory was this?
[20:39] <JonathanD> erm
[20:39] <JonathanD> mystery
[20:39] <JonathanD> did I really type that?
[20:40]  * JonathanD hangs his head in shame
[20:42] <MutantTurkey> sigh. i spent all day trying to package Unity for ArchLinux ._. no luck so far
[20:51] <MutantTurkey> gah cmake is ridiculous. ubuntu is ridiculous and patches everything. sigh
[20:52] <ssweeny> unity uses cmake?
[20:53] <MutantTurkey> yes
[20:53] <MutantTurkey> and so does compiz
[20:54] <MutantTurkey> and i need to patch compiz with a special glibc2 patch from ubuntu devs ._.
[20:54] <ssweeny> ew
[20:54] <MutantTurkey> i managed to build and install all their other libraries required. but compiz is hanging for me
[20:55] <ssweeny> and unity depends on the glibc patch in compiz?
[20:56] <MutantTurkey> no idea
[20:56] <MutantTurkey> maybe
[20:56] <MutantTurkey> they have their own patched version
[20:56] <MutantTurkey> i'm trying to build unity now but its spitting back errors about compiz.
[20:57] <MutantTurkey> now FindCompiz.cmake is throwing an error "unable to find compiz" wth
[21:01] <MutantTurkey> i give up >.>
[21:01] <ssweeny> i'm just a cave man. your advanced non-gnu make systems frighten and confuse me
[21:02] <MutantTurkey> me too  buddy. me too
[21:02] <MutantTurkey> even make scares me :x
[21:03] <ssweeny> make i pretty much have down. i have to write makefiles for work
[21:03] <ssweeny> i've even dabbled in the horror that is qt's build system
[21:03] <MutantTurkey> oh god
[21:03] <MutantTurkey> the horrors
[21:03] <ssweeny> but cmake eludes me
[21:03] <MutantTurkey> i only use make files when i publish my work online ._, some people can't stand to just use gcc
[21:04] <ssweeny> yeah, let 'em build the linux kernel by hand!
[21:04] <ssweeny> that's the way my grandpappy did it
[21:05] <MutantTurkey> thats the way i do it
[21:06] <ssweeny> are you my grandpappy?
[21:07] <MutantTurkey> i hope not
[21:07] <ssweeny> that would be weird
[21:07] <MutantTurkey> indeed it would be
[21:07] <ssweeny> how old are you?
[21:07] <MutantTurkey> that is an odd question coming from the internet
[21:08] <ssweeny> just curious if i'm older than my grandpappy
[21:08] <MutantTurkey> 16 ._.
[21:08] <MutantTurkey> LOL
[21:08] <ssweeny> wow
[21:08] <ssweeny> i'm 11 years older than my grandpappy
[21:09] <MutantTurkey> thats odd
[22:19] <jedijf> MutantTurkey: you have all weekend


[03:09]  * passstab just learned chroot
[03:09]  * passstab will wait for debian to switch from sysvinit
[10:10] <JonathanD> Morning.
[11:01] <rmg51> morning
[11:01] <rmg51> walk time :)
[11:21] <JonathanD> Already did.
[12:00] <waltman> Morning.
[15:41] <MutantTurkey> InHisName: not terribly slow but I want to use it for music production
[15:41] <MutantTurkey> that means each slice of sound is uncompressed 64 bit wav... just one guitar track can be a couple hundred megs.
[15:41] <MutantTurkey> this server has 2tb of space, so I wanted to use it to host my stuff
[18:46] <biobunsai> Hello All:)
[18:46] <biobunsai> Anyone here that can give some clues please?
[18:58] <passstab> hi
[18:58] <passstab> what kind of clues?
[19:08] <biobunsai> Hiya pass
[19:08] <biobunsai> I have having issues trying to get sound out of my system.
[19:09] <biobunsai> I installed linux on a old machine to learn it. and i got most of it down, but cant get the sound out of it
[19:15] <passstab> hmm
[19:15] <passstab> what distro?
[19:15] <passstab> and version
[19:16] <biobunsai> ubu 11.04 i think it's the latest one...
[19:16] <biobunsai> And just north of harrisburg, btw:)
[19:16] <passstab> what hardware?
[19:18] <biobunsai> No laughing... HP Pavilion a1530n
[19:19] <passstab> (11.10 is the latest, 12.04 is coming on the 26 BTW)
[19:19] <biobunsai> sorry, just getting to know linux... and done more installs i don't even follow it any more:)
[19:19] <biobunsai> LOL
[19:20]  * passstab is googleing
[19:22] <biobunsai> WOW i feel dumb... But thank you for all your help...
[19:22] <passstab> ?
[19:23] <passstab> you found it?
[19:23] <biobunsai> I have the stereo wire crossover and set to the wrong jack on the home sytem. The I was trying to get sound off the other computer setting.. I am soo sorry for bugging you
[19:23] <passstab> np :)
[19:24] <biobunsai> :) No wback to work trying to how to chan the dns and install proxies..
[19:24] <jedijf> glad he fixed it
[19:24] <passstab> you probably should install 12.04 when it comes out tho
[19:26] <biobunsai> I will:) is there a good place to read up on ubu? and really learn it? Or is it a crash and burn your figners learning center:)
[19:28] <passstab> i think it's the later :D
[19:28] <passstab> but jedijf might know of something
[19:29] <biobunsai> well thanks for you help Pass:) \
[19:29] <passstab> #ubuntu might be a better place to go for faster help
[19:29] <jedijf> no
[19:29] <jedijf> never
[19:30] <jedijf> #ubuntu is a cluster f
[19:30] <passstab> https://help.ubuntu.com/
[19:30] <PennBot> Title: Official Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)
[19:30] <jedijf> yeah community docs are great
[19:30] <biobunsai> well I got backtrack and matruix on vm and this is alot more friendly
[19:30] <passstab> and ofc google
[19:31] <passstab> yes ubuntu is more friendly then those :D
[19:31] <jedijf> biobunsai: https://help.ubuntu.com/community
[19:31] <PennBot> Title: UserDocumentation - Community Ubuntu Documentation (at help.ubuntu.com)
[19:31] <jedijf> wow.....backtrack
[19:31] <jedijf> lol
[19:32] <passstab> 3rd n00b i've seen that uses it
[19:32] <passstab> is weird
[19:32] <biobunsai> I tried suse, red hat, slackware, mint.. trying to find the one that works for me
[19:32] <jedijf> biobunsai: pick one - use it for 6 weeks
[19:32] <jedijf> exclusively
[19:32] <jedijf> anyone
[19:32] <jedijf> force yourself to use..
[19:32] <jedijf> you will then learn
[19:33] <passstab> mint debian is my vote
[19:33] <biobunsai> Well i been with ubu for about a month now:)  still trying to figure out all the systems settings:)
[19:33] <jedijf> good
[19:33] <passstab> why do you prefer ubu to mint?
[19:34] <jedijf> mint is green
[19:34] <jedijf> ugly
[19:34]  * jedijf looks at channel titlebar
[19:34]  * passstab wasn't asking jedijf
[19:34] <biobunsai> Don't know.. this just seems to be more user friendly and no so lindows looking
[19:34] <jedijf> hahah
[19:35] <biobunsai> Of course I crashed the system twice changing the start up splash screen:)
[19:35] <passstab> i like trying to understand n00bs is that so bad?
[19:35] <biobunsai> LOL Nope.  It's not like I dug out a 386 or something
[19:42] <passstab> you ARE useing unity then
[19:43] <passstab> http://unity.ubuntu.com/about/
[19:43] <PennBot> Title: About (at unity.ubuntu.com)
[19:43] <biobunsai> yes, thank you I am:)
[19:46] <jedijf> biobunsai: older book, but concepts should be similar to current: http://files.jedijf.com/pacs/Ubuntu.Kung.Fu.pdf.tar.gz
[19:48] <biobunsai> Ty jedi
[19:53] <biobunsai> TY very much JEDI... ~bowing most humbly~
[19:57] <passstab> this is like fanfic
[19:57] <passstab> jedi teaching kung-fu
[20:01] <biobunsai> what is a good mp3 playing program. I'm using banshee.. anything better?
[20:04] <passstab> for just playing them?
[20:04] <passstab> vlc
[20:09] <rmg51> Rhythmbox
[20:09] <biobunsai> yea just want to play them
[20:09] <passstab> then vlc
[20:10] <passstab> can play EVERYTHING
[20:10] <passstab> so its popular on the other OSs also
[20:11] <biobunsai> oh there a issue I having.. every now and then the video  for the icons getgrabbled.. and clue why that is?
[20:11] <passstab> http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
[20:11] <PennBot> Title: VideoLAN - Official page for VLC media player, the Open Source video framework! (at www.videolan.org)
[20:11] <passstab> what?
[20:13] <passstab> i don't understand what you just said
[20:13] <biobunsai> the gui gets all pixeled for no good reason out of the blue
[20:13] <passstab> the entire gui?
[20:14] <biobunsai> pretty much. and and stays that way till I reboot
[20:14] <passstab> how do you reboot?
[20:15] <biobunsai> log off, restart.
[20:15] <passstab> via cli?
[20:16] <biobunsai> when its real bad i hard boot.
[20:17] <passstab> you should use ctrl-alt-Fn
[20:17] <passstab> then login and type sudo reboot
[20:18] <passstab> now i'll consider the problem  :P
[20:20] <passstab> are you using a proprietary graphics driver?
[20:20] <biobunsai> I'm using the onboard video....
[20:21] <passstab> open a terminal
[20:21] <passstab> and run
[20:21] <passstab> lspci -v | grep VGA
[20:22] <passstab> paste the output here
[20:24] <biobunsai> dumb question.... how did you get the char after the -v?
[20:24] <biobunsai> before grep
[20:25] <passstab> ahh
[20:25] <passstab> i remeber when i had the same problem
[20:25] <passstab> shift+backslash
[20:25] <passstab> probably
[20:26] <passstab> it's called a pipe
[20:27] <passstab> and in this case it's being used to direct the output of the first command to be the input for the second
[20:27] <biobunsai> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82945G/GZ Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
[20:30] <passstab> good
[20:31] <biobunsai> and pipe is  shift  \:)
[20:33] <passstab> what i said
[20:33] <passstab> http://askubuntu.com/questions/50966/screen-corruption-with-946g-82945g-gz
[20:33] <PennBot> Title: 11.04 - Screen corruption with 946G / 82945G/GZ - Ask Ubuntu - Stack Exchange (at askubuntu.com)
[20:34] <passstab> says running sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-intel
[20:34] <passstab> will help
[20:34] <passstab> but i'd be surprised
[20:37]  * passstab pokes jedijf again
[20:37] <biobunsai> says it took out libgladeui-1-11
[20:38] <passstab> what does?
[20:38] <biobunsai> So i guess i reboot now  or do i have to get it to attach or something?
[20:38] <passstab> ???
[20:39] <passstab> what took out glade?
[20:39] <biobunsai> sudo getting the xserver intel
[20:41] <passstab> thas weird
[20:42] <biobunsai> well i hope it don't crash the system :) Thats getting old:) .LOL
[20:43] <jedijf> biobunsai: don't have to reboot linux after every change
[20:43] <jedijf> that's windows think
[20:43] <jedijf> just have to log out (kill xwindow) and log back in (start x window)
[20:43] <biobunsai> Lol Sorry i been with windows since DOS 3.22.. old habits..
[20:43] <jedijf> for this particular change
[20:44] <jedijf> biobunsai: that's ok, just telling you so you know
[20:44] <passstab> yea the only time you need to reboot is after a kernel upgrade
[20:44] <jedijf> Ko rect
[20:44] <jedijf> specifically, an /Ubuntu/ kernel upgrade
[20:45] <passstab> what do you mean?
[20:45] <jedijf> nm
[20:45] <jedijf> passstab: you know tomorrow is a special tech week mmmm at hive, right?
[20:46] <passstab> yes
[20:46] <jedijf> k
[20:46] <passstab> will be there
[20:46] <biobunsai> Thank you both very much for the clue ins
[20:46] <passstab> as well as all the other tw@hive events
[20:46] <passstab> np
[20:47] <passstab> :)
[20:47] <passstab> except for open house
[20:48] <jedijf> passstab: nice
[20:48] <jedijf> i will do monday and fri at the gala setup and stuff
[20:48] <passstab> also i registered for the toool workshop
[20:49] <passstab> oh and not friday either
[20:57] <passstab> oh was that a comment about how ubuntu disregards it's upstreams?
[20:58] <jedijf> no comment
[20:58] <jedijf> the toool stuff is fun
[20:59] <passstab> will you go to that?
[20:59] <jedijf> i have the beginners set of locks 1 pin to 6 pin to practice with
[21:00] <passstab> i payed $30 for the $30 value package
[21:00] <jedijf> i have that as well, they're the picks and the 2 tension jawns
[21:01] <jedijf> i just ordered the leather pouch set to carry (backordered)
[21:01]  * passstab will learn what tension jawns are on tuesday
[21:02] <jedijf> passstab: this will be as exciting as blinking your first led with an mcu
[21:02] <jedijf> passstab: hint: less is more
[21:02] <passstab> :)


[14:48] <adamsonj> good mornin'
[17:31] <LarstiQ> adamsonj: good evening
[17:57] <adamsonj> LarstiQ: Good afternoon ;)
[17:58] <LarstiQ> adamsonj: that would place you somewhere in the americas? ;)
[20:17] <adamsonj>  #latex
[20:40] <jonathanj> hello!
[20:41] <jonathanj> i'd like to do something but i'm not sure what the name for it is, which is making it hard to search for
[20:42] <jonathanj> i have feature branch A that was merged into trunk, other feature branches were merged afterwards, later it was decided that feature A needed to be reverted, so i committed a reverse merge for feature branch X to trunk. now the time has come to merge feature branch X back into trunk, but obviously if i simply try to merge the branch bzr tells me there is nothing to do
[20:43] <jonathanj> (oh whoops, i mean feature branch X not A at the beginning)
[21:53] <thumper> abentley: how to I make a working tree match a particular revno?
[21:53] <thumper> I'm trying to work out which commit introduced a problem
[21:53] <abentley> thumper: bzr revert -r $revno
[21:53] <thumper> ta
[21:55] <lifeless> thumper: you might like bisect too
[21:55] <thumper> hi lifeless
[21:55] <thumper> it is only a choice of 3 commits
[21:55] <thumper> so not too bad
[21:55] <lifeless> o/ thumper


[06:58] <mcphail> Morining all. Have been having a look at Amazon's Alexa. Do you think there would be interest in this for the platform to bring Siri/Google Now-type functions?
[06:59] <mcphail> https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/alexa
[07:00] <dholbach> good morning
[07:26] <zzarr> hello! I would like someone to help me with BoardConfig.mk for a new device (Motorola Droid 4/maserati)
[07:33] <idoit23> Just looking for advice. How can someone who is almost 30 and never had a job get one? I have been applying(fast food, retail, entry level) just to be told I am not what they are looking for (We have reviewed your application for this position and will be proceeding with other candidates at this time.) or they are not hiring. No interviews. Cannot volunteer as there is no where near too
[07:34] <zzarr> idoit23: What country are you living in?
[07:35] <idoit23> USA
[07:36] <zzarr> you have tested everything?
[07:37] <idoit23> what
[07:40] <idoit23> tested what
[07:45] <zzarr> applying for jobs you don't want or think you is really qualified for?
[07:46] <idoit23> I HAVE
[07:58] <zzarr> I guess you're not lucky then
[08:14] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml
[08:18] <zzarr> what should I set TARGET_KERNEL_CONFIG to?
[08:18] <zzarr> (in BoardConfig.mk)
[09:02] <duflu> What's the package to target for indicator-bar bugs?
[09:03] <svij> duflu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers#Indicators
[09:04] <svij> pick the right one from that list
[09:04] <duflu> svij: Thanks. Though this bug applies to all indicators. Probably should be assigned to Qt or Unity8
[09:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Pudding Day! 😃
[09:27] <matv1> is there still no one who experienced that when starting music player, audiolevel  initially goes to max (on BQ)?
[09:27] <matv1> I cannot reproduce consistently but experienced it 2 or 3 times now.. It think it started since OTA4
[09:28] <matv1> it has caught me offguard a couple of times now, and my ears are starting to bleed :(
[09:29] <ogra_> matv1, seems bug 1468811 was recently filed ...
[09:40] <matv1> ogra_ ah see! Thanks. I too got it only when using headphones but didnt expect that it could be related to having headphone plugged in or not
[09:44] <ogra_> well, click the "me too" button on the top left ...
[09:44] <ogra_> that will raise the severity
[09:44] <matv1> I did :)
[09:44] <ogra_> cool :)
[09:53] <matv1> ogra_ I was wondering if there was something I could extract to get things rolling. I think I might have found a consistency after all but have to test. Who would be the one to talk to? Its now assigned to Canonical Phone Foundations
[09:57] <ogra_> well, leave a comment on the bug
[09:58] <matv1> ogra_ right!
[09:59]  * ogra_ doesnt know who the canonical-phonedations team actually is nowadays
[10:00] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, ^^^ i guess thats you ?
[10:02] <evergreen> May I ask for help of porting u-touch into xperia s?
[10:11] <john-mcaleely> ogra_, it is indeed
[10:11] <ogra_> so you re-vived the team, yay :)
[10:12] <ogra_> (i never like the name ... but it definitely has a nicer ring to it than "phone plumbers" which kind of brings pictures to my head)
[10:13] <john-mcaleely> there is no phonedations team, but there is a phonedations backlog
[10:13] <ogra_> ah
[10:13] <john-mcaleely> we're hwe (hardware enablement) for now
[10:21] <zzarr> hello! I get a message "Warning: you may need to install module-init-tools" and then the make fails
[10:37] <zzarr> solved it, I was missing some packages
[10:52] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, hmm http://get.webgl.org works fine on the arale (MX4) but not at all on krillin (bq4.5) ... smells like a driver issue or some such
[10:52] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, ^^
[10:53]  * ogra_ just saw a user on G+ complain ... and seems he is right
[11:00] <jgdx> cyphermox, hi, quick question, did networkmanager do something wrong here [1]? [connection][type] = wifi ??
[11:01] <jgdx> [1] http://paste.ubuntu.com/11776155/
[11:31] <ogra_> bug 1469119
[11:31] <ogra_> there we go
[11:37] <popey> jdstrand: i can't recall if I filed a bug for apparmor about not being able to run commands in the terminal. so I added a task to this one.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/1443591
[11:38]  * ogra_ thinks we should re-work the terminal completely ... no confinement, no app lifecycle
[11:52] <jgdx> that would be wonderful
[11:54] <ogra_> for security you have to enter your PIN already anyway ...
[11:54] <ogra_> and if you then want to shoot yourself in the foot you should just be able to :)
[11:55] <ogra_> (and for desktop use you just drop the trust-store (PIN) popup)
[11:59] <Tm_T> I cannot ditch android phone because of Ubuntu phone terminal dies if it's not active
[11:59] <ogra_> why is that ?
[11:59] <Tm_T> ogra_: irssi
[11:59] <tathhu> Tm_T: i'm not having that kind of problem in sailfish :P
[11:59] <Tm_T> tathhu: sure (:
[12:00] <Tm_T> setting up ssh connection every time you take a peek to Twitter for example, uffff
[12:00] <ogra_> Tm_T, use the kiwi app from the store and connect to a bip proxy ;)
[12:00] <jgdx> lol
[12:00] <Tm_T> or like the other day, I was coding and I checked documentation from the browser
[12:00] <Tm_T> ... fg back to editor every time
[12:00] <ogra_> (kiwi auto-reconnects ... bip will replay the backlog)
[12:01] <Tm_T> ogra_: I rather would have constant connection (:
[12:01] <Tm_T> I even did in early 2000 with those "dumb" phones with midp software, I could read browser and have ssh to irssi at the same time
[12:02] <Tm_T> not to mention good old HP iPaq I have (:
[12:02] <ogra_> Tm_T, well, for constant IRC we just need the telepathy plugin installed by default
[12:03] <ogra_> then you can just have a UI app attaching to it
[12:03]  * ogra_ bets there is a bug open for telepathy irc integration
[12:03] <Tm_T> ogra_: that too
[12:04] <Tm_T> ogra_: ... 140 channels doable with that?
[12:04] <ogra_> no idea, i never used it
[12:04] <Tm_T> not that I use irc much (;
[12:04] <ogra_> i just know it will allow using IRc via telepathy ... which provides a permanently running backend process
[12:04] <ogra_> i dont see why the number of channels would play any role though
[12:06] <ogra_> (except for RAM limits that you might hit ... )
[12:07] <tathhu> +N gigs of ram, no problem :>
[12:14] <jdstrand> dholbach: hi! I was looking in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/staging and it looks like you did an upload of the review tools
[12:14] <jdstrand> dholbach: I uploaded 0.29 to wily yesterday
[12:15] <jdstrand> dholbach: are these auto-uploaded?
[12:15] <popey> ogra bug 1452705
[12:15] <ogra_> popey, yeah
[12:15]  * ogra_ me toos
[12:15]  * popey pokes tvoss with ^
[12:16]  * tvoss increments counter
[12:17] <ogra_> lol
[12:17] <popey> :(
[12:17]  * ogra_ guesses thats not what popey was after
[12:20] <ogra_> oh
[12:20] <ogra_> you want it tied to developer mode
[12:20] <ogra_> thats indeed a lot more work
[12:20] <popey> I didn't. But it was suggested that this was the best way forward.
[12:20] <ogra_> yeah, but it means that qtmir needs to learn about developer mode ...
[12:21] <ogra_> while just an exception is in max a three line patch
[12:21] <praxy> Hi, I want to install ubuntu (or any other gnu/linux) alongside the android lxc container in my vegetahd (bq e5hd) device. With lxc-create etc. Any docs / pointers / people who've done this before?
[12:21] <ogra_> (at least if the code didnt change since i looked last ... which is a while ago admittedly)
[12:22] <ogra_> praxy, no, i dont think aynone has done that before ... if you do it, keep notes and blog about it ;)
[12:22] <ogra_> you will have to use some writable space for the rootfs though ... like /home/phablet/ or space on the SD
[12:22] <Tm_T> ogra_: usability is one
[12:23] <Tm_T> ogra_: talking about why large number of channels might not work with every client
[12:23] <praxy> ogra_: ok... will do. Well the install is easy. Just pull template file from lxc package and lxc-create it. Works so far, but ran into cgroup related errors when trying to start it.
[12:23] <praxy> you using -P /home/ubuntu
[12:23] <praxy> yea* using -P /home/ubuntu
[12:23] <ogra_> Tm_T, well, but thats a matter of the UI and its design .. i cant imagine teechnical limits foor the telepathy backend
[12:24] <Tm_T> ogra_: yeah, it's just that irssi works too well with tmux for me to want to make any changes (:
[12:24] <Tm_T> not to mention my work being mostly poking stuff over ssh anyway
[12:24] <ogra_> praxy, what release is it using for the target ? might be systemd that causes this ... if you try something pre-vivid it will use upstart
[12:25] <ogra_> Tm_T, well, there is the openappstore ... that has a tool to exclude the terminal from lifecycle i think
[12:26] <ogra_> (just not the same as having the app do it by default=
[12:26] <ogra_> )
[12:30] <praxy> ogra_: it's the same with the debian/gentoo template though. I'll have to come back with exact errors since I don't have the device on hands right now. Template uses precise.
[12:30] <ogra_> well, debian is systemd as well ... not sure what gentoo uses by default
[12:30] <dholbach> jdstrand, a daily build goes to /staging
[12:30] <dholbach> jdstrand, to the release ppa they get manually copied over
[12:31] <nocturn> Hi guys, I'm awaiting my Meizu phone and wanted to check some things already in anticipation :-)
[12:31] <nocturn> Can I use Jabber on Ubuntu touch?
[12:32] <nocturn> And does it support Activesync?
[12:33] <ogra_> Tm_T, https://open.uappexplorer.com/ in case you dont know about it ... https://open.uappexplorer.com/apps ... tweakgeek should allow to exclude the terminal from the lifecycle
[12:33] <ogra_> nocturn, no to both (yet)
[12:34] <jdstrand> dholbach: cool, thanks!
[12:36] <nocturn> ogra_, that is a shame.  Activesync I suspected that a bit, though lack of Jabber support surprises me
[12:37] <ogra_> nocturn, it is just that nobody had time to work on it yet ... and nobody from the community picked it up either ... for jabber a telepathy-xmpp plugin would have to be included ... then people could write UIs for it
[12:37] <ogra_> not sure if there are any plans for activesync though
[12:37]  * ogra_ didnt know that still exists ... i thought that died with the rising of android
[12:38] <ogra_> i havent seen activesync being used by anyone since my last iPaq :)
[12:38] <nocturn> ogra_, activesync?  That is the default protocol to sync with Exchange from any phone.  I don't care about exchange but Zarafa has z-push which works really well
[12:39] <ogra_> ah ... thats what 15 years of linux does to you :) i didnt know :)
[12:39] <nocturn> Most phones don't call it that BTW, it will be labeled business mail account or Exchange account
[12:39] <nocturn> I use in on a Linux server with Zarafa
[12:40] <ogra_> (the last MS OS i touched for actually doing work with it was XP when it was brabdnew)
[12:41] <nocturn> ogra_, same here, my last was Windows 98
[12:41] <ogra_> i wonder if dekko could do it without having actual extra stuff implemented on OS level
[12:41] <nocturn> but Zarafa is completely Linux based and GPL'd, it has native support for MAPI and ActiveSync
[12:41] <ogra_> but i guess you would want accounts integration in the OS
[12:41] <nocturn> Zimbra too BTW
[12:43] <zzarr> how do I avoid the "Using prebuilt kernel binary instead of source" message?
[12:46] <Kva_Gram> hello?
[12:50] <nocturn> ogra_, I am looking in to syncevolution, there is a chance it will do activesync
[12:51] <ogra_> nocturn, oh, sure, but there wont be UI options
[12:51] <ogra_> you will have to do it via ssh or adb
[12:52] <nocturn> ogra_, I don't mind the command line, it is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this phone
[12:52] <ogra_> :)
[12:56] <nocturn> So another question, can it do OpenVPN?
[12:56] <ogra_> only from commandline ... but yeah it is installed in the image
[12:57] <ogra_> (you need to do the setup in /home/phablet and have a custom start script)
[12:57] <nocturn> Great
[13:06] <cyphermox> jgdx: no
[13:07] <cyphermox> jgdx: I suppose you're the one who changed password and identity to [omitted]
[13:07] <cyphermox> oh, perhaps it should be 802-11-wireless rather than wifi though
[13:13] <jgdx> cyphermox, yeah, that's what I figured. But our community friend says it works.
[13:13] <jgdx> wifi instead of 802-11-wireless, that is
[13:13] <cyphermox> well, does it?
[13:14] <jgdx> pete-woods, ^ let me know when you've given it a try :)
[13:14] <pete-woods> jgdx: go a silo?
[13:14] <pete-woods> *got
[13:14] <cyphermox> indeed wifi would work
[13:14] <jgdx> pete-woods, debs :|
[13:14] <pete-woods> for arm?
[13:14] <jgdx> cyphermox, great. Is that documented somewhere?
[13:14] <cyphermox> I don't know, suspect it must be
[13:15] <jgdx> pete-woods, http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-builder-wily-armhf/118/artifact/work/output/*zip*/output.zip — you want to skip autopilot and libsys1_dev
[13:16] <jgdx> cyphermox, okay. nm-applet also creates a type=wifi
[13:17] <jgdx> pete-woods, there has been some fixes since those debs were built, will kick a new build.
[13:25] <pete-woods> jgdx: okay, will wait for that
[13:39] <sil2100> anpok: hey! I'm assigning a silo for your mir landing - just remember that when you ask someone to upload the xorg-packages etc. to the silo, be sure to mention that they should upload both vivid and wily versions to the PPA
[13:42] <anpok> ok
[13:42] <sil2100> Thanks
[13:44] <zzarr> how do I avoid the "Using prebuilt kernel binary instead of source" message?
[13:45] <sil2100> hmm
[13:45] <zzarr> is there something I need to write in the "BoradConfig.mk"?
[13:45] <zzarr> file*
[13:45] <ogra_> zzarr, grep the source, find where the message comes from and wlak up the code path
[13:45] <ogra_> *walk
[13:45] <zzarr> "grep the source"?
[13:46] <zzarr> do you mean the makefile?
[13:46] <ogra_> grep -r "blah blah" ./ ...
[13:47] <ogra_> find where the mesage comes from ... then go backwards through the code ... (find what calls the function that prints it ... find what calls the finction above etc etc ... til you find the right place to change it)
[13:48] <zzarr> it tells me right the way "build/core/tasks/kernel.mk:104"
[13:50] <zzarr> it says that it's depercated to use a rebuilt kernel
[13:51] <conyoo> yay mir 0.15
[13:51] <zzarr> but it was built first when I ran the "make" command
[13:53] <zzarr> I just realized that might not have been the cause of the fail, I think it's a matter of pebkac
[13:53] <zzarr> sry
[13:54] <zzarr> the real problem is that "/android.config" don't exists
[13:55] <zzarr> googling now
[13:59] <zzarr> I have to go, bye
[14:38] <Laney> renatu: hey, any news on checking out qtorganizer5-eds w/3.16?
[14:45] <renatu> Laney, not yet, probably next, week
[14:45] <renatu> Laney, sorry for that. I am very busy with other stuff
[14:46] <Laney> ok
[14:46] <Laney> I will file a bug to track it
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> What are regular expressions in QML converted to on the C++ side?
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtqml-cppintegration-data.html doesn't give any idea
[14:56] <mardy> jdstrand: hi!
[14:56] <mardy> jdstrand: about bug 1468792, I'm not sure about your last comment
[14:57] <mardy> jdstrand: I would say that yes, the "networking" template could be set as mandatory, but for the webview I'd have just a warning, or maybe not even that
[14:58] <mardy> jdstrand: there are many services (like owncloud) which use different authentication methods (plain username and passowrd?) which don't require a webview
[14:59] <jdstrand> mardy: alright, I update the tools
[15:01] <ogra_> yeah, and IRC ... jabber ...
[15:04] <Cristian__> Hi
[15:05] <Cristian__> Ubuntu is used in cell phone LG G2 mini D625?
[16:01] <ogra_> pmcgowan, kenvandine, is the fix for bug 1437510 supposed to be landed somewhere already ... my arale recently started to behave like the krillin and also dims after 30sec regardless of what i set for the locking
[16:01] <ogra_> (and my krillin never changed since i have it)
[16:01] <kenvandine> ogra_, should have
[16:02] <ogra_> :(
[16:02] <kenvandine> let me check my device
[16:02] <ogra_> i generally have my screen lock set to 3min on all devices ...
[16:02] <ogra_> (or to never if i use the phone in-car)
[16:02] <kenvandine> gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:03] <ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:03] <ogra_> uint32 45
[16:03] <kenvandine> ok, change your lock timeout then check again
[16:04] <ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:04] <ogra_> uint32 230
[16:04] <ogra_> thats after changing from my default (3 min) to 4min
[16:04] <kenvandine> ok... my *fix* is on your device... i just hate my fix :)
[16:04] <ogra_> and after changing back to 3min:
[16:04] <ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:04] <ogra_> uint32 170
[16:04] <ogra_> so the initial value is crap
[16:04] <kenvandine> imo if the screen dimming is supposed to be relative to the lock timeout
[16:04] <kenvandine> we shouldn't have  setting at all
[16:04] <ogra_> after changing the setting it is correct
[16:05] <ogra_> yes
[16:05] <kenvandine> my fix was just to make the dim setting change when the other changed
[16:05] <kenvandine> so it won't happen unless you twiddle it
[16:05] <ogra_> well, why doesntr it persist is the question :)
[16:05] <kenvandine> it will persist
[16:05]  * ogra_ reboots the phone
[16:06] <ogra_> (and since i'm an evil guy i just hold down power)
[16:06] <kenvandine> you are evil
[16:06] <kenvandine> it's gsettings, should persist
[16:06] <ogra_> yeah, it does
[16:07]  * ogra_ checks the krillin
[16:07] <ogra_> kenvandine, btw, what do you do for "never" ?
[16:07] <kenvandine> ogra_, feel free to comment on the bug that you think it should be fixed in unity-system-compositor
[16:08] <kenvandine> 50
[16:08] <ogra_> (where suppressing the dimming can be essential ... i.e. in car when using GPS)
[16:08] <ogra_> uuuh
[16:08] <ogra_> thats bad
[16:08] <kenvandine> we need an api for that
[16:08] <ogra_> just default to 5000 ;)
[16:08] <ogra_> or some such :)
[16:08] <ogra_> as a workaround
[16:08] <kenvandine> we need to just fix it in unity-system-compositor :)
[16:09] <ogra_> or that :)
[16:09] <kenvandine> and add an API for apps to keep the screen on
[16:09] <ogra_> krillin works too :)
[16:09] <kenvandine> my fix is really just a work around... annoys me, but i couldn't get anyone to comment
[16:10] <kenvandine> so the workaround is better than nothing
[16:11] <seb128_> haaackks
[16:11] <seb128_> or how to never get bugs fixed
[16:11] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:11] <seb128_> you should not have caved in, just nag people until they fix it in the proper place
[16:12] <kenvandine> seb128, ogra_: i reopened the unity-system-compositor task
[16:12] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:12] <kenvandine> can you guys echo the importance in the bug report?
[16:13] <kenvandine> help get traction
[16:13] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, ^^
[16:13] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i'd still like a proper fix for bug 1437510
[16:13] <ogra_> kenvandine, heh, i wonder if we clashed, i did the same :)
[16:14] <kenvandine> ogra_, thx!
[16:15] <ogra_> WOAH !
[16:15] <ogra_> so before i rebooted my arale the battery indicator was red ...
[16:15] <ogra_> after reboot i'm at 74%
[16:16]  * ogra_ shakes his head ... so many booogs
[16:18] <ogra_> (it is also funny how it never finds the location correctly for me ... i live in house #5 .... if i'm in a room on the left side of the house location always shows #7 ... on the right side it is always #3 .... i only see #5 about every two weeks)
[16:21] <ogra_> lol, it is funny how people start trading Meizu invites on G+
[16:31] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, should I have not marked that fixed?
[16:31] <kenvandine> well, i worked around it in settings
[16:31] <kenvandine> but i think it should be fixed in usc
[16:32] <pmcgowan> ok
[16:32] <kenvandine> which had been marked as invalid
[16:32] <kenvandine> i really just think the dim-timeout setting should go away, and let usc manage when to dim
[16:32] <kenvandine> since apparently it should always be relative
[16:32] <kenvandine> and eventually we should have an API for apps to request the screen stay awake
[16:33] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, there is a separate bug for that to hook up the standard qml api
[16:33] <kenvandine> yeah, for the API
[16:33] <kenvandine> but the dim-timeout should just go away
[16:33] <kenvandine> and let usc decide when to dim
[16:33] <pmcgowan> yep
[16:33] <kenvandine> which should default to 10 seconds before locking, per design
[16:34] <pmcgowan> oh I see did you add a new setting for it?
[16:34] <ogra_> well, for the "never" setting the dim should at least be infinite
[16:34] <kenvandine> no... i didn't add it
[16:34] <kenvandine> we already had the setting
[16:34] <ogra_> this is really dangerous
[16:34] <kenvandine> it was just never getting changed
[16:34] <pmcgowan> ok
[16:34] <kenvandine> since it was meant to always be lock timeout - 10
[16:34] <ogra_> it is the typical setting to use when in your car
[16:34] <kenvandine> so i added a hack to change dim-timeout whenever lock timeout was changed
[16:35] <ogra_> where you dont want distraction by dimming every 50sec
[16:35] <kenvandine> ogra_, the app should be requesting that though, shouldn't be a setting
[16:35] <ogra_> well, the app cant currently
[16:35] <kenvandine> right
[16:35] <kenvandine> :)
[16:35] <ogra_> so if you use GPS anvigation you usually set it to never
[16:35] <ogra_> and then tap every 50sec
[16:35] <ogra_> until you crash in that tree
[16:36] <pmcgowan> lol
[16:36] <kenvandine> haha
[16:36] <pmcgowan> ogra_, well you have a really old car anyway
[16:36] <ogra_> thats true ... :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> we really need the api for the app to request it
[16:36] <ogra_> it is fast enough to hit the tree hard enough that i never have to care for anything afterwards though :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> i hate the idea of changing that setting just so i can run an app :)
[16:36] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, don't we have what we need, just need to hook it together?
[16:37] <kenvandine> for the API?
[16:37] <kenvandine> usc can handle it, just needs to be exposed somewhere
[16:37] <kenvandine> for dim-timeout, it should just handle dimming the screen relative to the activity-timeout rather than from a setting in gsettings
[16:38] <pmcgowan> I meant the keep the screen on thing
[16:38] <kenvandine> yeah, we have the infrastructure for it
[16:38] <kenvandine> but afaik nothing exposed to the apps
[16:39] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, there is a standard qt api
[16:39] <kenvandine> but does usc honor it?
[16:39] <pmcgowan> not yet, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1462489/comments/20
[16:40] <kenvandine> we need to expose it either as a property in the toolkit, or maybe even something in the .desktop file
[16:40] <kenvandine> like full screen
[16:40] <pmcgowan> maybe comment on that bug then
[16:44] <kenvandine> i guess maybe only programatically, like you don't want the screen to stay on while just viewing maps, etc... but if you are actively using it for navigation it should
[16:44] <seb128> kenvandine, pmcgowan, do we really need a permission for that? what's the issue with having the foreground application being able to hold the screen?
[16:44] <kenvandine> so maybe that solution is good
[16:44] <ogra_> seb128, battery life
[16:44] <ogra_> seb128, at least thats what tvoss always told me when i asked in the past
[16:45] <kenvandine> maybe use trust-store for that part
[16:45] <seb128> ogra_, well, if the foreground app keep the screen it's quite visible
[16:45] <ogra_> "we dont want to allow apps to drain your battery"
[16:45] <kenvandine> but regardless, it's only when that app is visible
[16:45] <seb128> it's not like it wouldn't be obvious to notice
[16:45] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:45] <seb128> it's not like a bg app was eating cpu
[16:45] <ogra_> i think android has an ability to tie it to the charging state
[16:46] <ogra_> so if you unplug the cable it falls back to default
[16:46] <ogra_> that would surely help in the in-car case already
[16:46] <seb128> so you crash your car because you can't use your gps ? ;-)
[16:46] <ogra_> yeah
[16:47] <seb128> well, I agree with not letting apps doing non obvious things that impact on what you perceive of the system
[16:47] <kenvandine> the app should just be able to keep the screen awake when it's needed
[16:47] <seb128> like use cpu in bg
[16:47] <kenvandine> it's not in the bg
[16:47] <seb128> but if something in bg keep the screen on it's obvious to see
[16:47] <seb128> in fg*
[16:47] <ogra_> sure ... but also easy to forget
[16:48] <seb128> if you use an app that does that and forget it's your fault
[16:48] <ogra_> you put your phone on the table when coming home after you used GPS and forget about it ...
[16:48] <seb128> well, permissions don't fix that usecase
[16:48] <kenvandine> ogra_, no... it's not just "using GPS"
[16:48] <seb128> you would ack the gps app to keep the screen on
[16:48] <ogra_> 30min later the battery is empty and you miss that call where the lottery society wanted to give you 5mio
[16:48] <kenvandine> it's when you are navigating
[16:48] <kenvandine> so when you get home, it should have arrived and exit navigation
[16:49] <ogra_> but you probably forget
[16:49] <kenvandine> the app should exit navigation mode
[16:49] <kenvandine> that's what google maps does
[16:49] <seb128> well, you say the GPS app shouldn't be allowed to keep the screen on ever?
[16:49] <ogra_> so you just pull the phone out of the holder ... and throw it on the table next to your keys
[16:49] <ogra_> seb128, no, i say we should have that feature tied to "charing"
[16:49] <seb128> my car has no usb plug
[16:50] <seb128> I use the gps on battery
[16:50] <ogra_> i personally never use GPS in the car without cable attached
[16:50] <kenvandine> i rarely keep mine plugged in while in my car
[16:50] <ogra_> wow
[16:50] <seb128> ogra_, you have an old car but it has an usb charger? ;-)
[16:50] <ogra_> its not that old and it has a cigarrette lighter :)
[16:50] <seb128> well mine doesn't
[16:50] <kenvandine> with google maps, it's pretty easy to tell it's still in navigation mode
[16:50] <ogra_> (it is only 21)
[16:50] <seb128> and most of the time I use the gps on less than 1 hour drive
[16:50] <kenvandine> and lets you exit nav
[16:50] <ogra_> (just drinking age)
[16:50] <davmor2> seb128: no it has a cigarette lighter that you can plug into a phone :)
[16:50] <john-mcaleely> a phone with another OS is sitting here fully lit up, given that I've started navigation
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> (no cables soiled in this experiment)
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> come back in a few hours to see how it ends
[16:51] <seb128> hehe
[16:51] <seb128> I think we just need to convince tvoss that having a gps app in foreground keep the screen on is ok
[16:51] <seb128> :-)
[16:51] <kenvandine> the other use case is reading an ebook
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> will I be in tears, with a flat battery? will the OS defend itself?
[16:51] <ogra_> well
[16:52] <john-mcaleely> what a cliffhanger
[16:52] <ogra_> for reading an ebook you dont need to keep it on forever
[16:52] <kenvandine> you should
[16:52] <kenvandine> while in reading mode
[16:52] <ogra_> no
[16:52] <ogra_> you should have a very long lock time instead
[16:52] <kenvandine> maybe if you don't turn the page in a long time
[16:52] <kenvandine> it should timeout
[16:52] <ogra_> so you can forget the book and it still doesnt drain
[16:52] <ogra_> how long do you need for reading a page ?
[16:52] <ogra_> 30min ?
[16:53] <kenvandine> i don't think my kid's kindle fire does that though
[16:53] <kenvandine> if you're reading it'll stay lit forever
[16:53] <kenvandine> i might have to do an experiment with that :)
[16:53] <john-mcaleely> my eink kindle gives up and turns off
[16:53] <ogra_> i think allowing an app to bump it to 10min would be enough for the reading case
[16:53] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:53] <kenvandine> but only when focused
[16:53] <ogra_> while GPS needs "never"
[16:54] <seb128> yes, so let's just have an api that let you specify the delay
[16:54] <john-mcaleely> all journeys end ogra
[16:54] <kenvandine> indeed
[16:54] <john-mcaleely> the app can come up and tickle something every now and again
[16:55] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, we dont have an api for that though :)
[16:55] <ogra_> Qt.Tickle()
[16:55] <john-mcaleely> we lack many apis. lots to do for v2
[16:56] <ogra_> (with the Mu_Ha_Ha_HA() callback)
[16:56] <davmor2> john-mcaleely: this phone journey had better not end or we are gonna lynch you ;)
[16:58] <john-mcaleely> my 'other os' phone is still fully lit up
[16:58] <john-mcaleely> no noticable battery depletion yet
[16:59] <ogra_> seb128, btw going to watch the girls play later ?
[17:00] <seb128> ogra_, I might, let's see if we do better in that remix ;-)
[17:00] <ogra_> you are doing really good ... i watched the last game
[17:00] <ogra_> that will be quite a challenge for us :)
[17:01] <pmcgowan> what do we think germany usa final?
[17:01]  * pmcgowan ducks
[17:01] <ogra_> +1
[17:01] <ogra_> i would love to see that
[17:01] <ogra_> but i'm a slight bit doubtful germany will survive today ...
[17:01] <ogra_> france is *really* good
[17:01] <ogra_> definitely on the same level
[17:02] <ogra_> (and definitely a lot better than the guys :P )
[17:03] <anpok> sil2100: for glmark and xorg-xserver, is it enough to upload a source package/
[17:03] <anpok> ?
[17:03] <sil2100> anpok: yes, you would have to prepare the source packages and ask a core-dev/trainguard to upload them for you
[17:03] <anpok> hm or actually glmark does not need to be patched just rebuilt
[17:04] <anpok> ok
[17:39] <SturmFlut> Hm, I had arale (with r2) idling in my backpack for ten hours today, with all radios off, and the battery level went down just four percent points. Does anybody have the numbers for r2 with radios on?
[17:40] <SturmFlut> I didn't really check r2 under "real" conditions because I was mostly connected to it via phablet-shell
[17:43] <svij> SturmFlut: mine got down from 60% last night until 18% right now, I also didn't use it much. (Wifi and cellular were on)
[17:45] <SturmFlut> svij: Thanks! My four percent points do not sound much, but if you extrapolate it, that's about nine days of standby with all radios off. The E4.5 can do seven days of standby with both radios on, and the battery of the MX4 has a 50% higher capacity
[17:46] <svij> yep
[17:46] <SturmFlut> So the actual difference between both devices is quite extreme
[17:47] <svij> the standby time before OTA-3(?) on the bq E4.5 was really bad.
[17:47] <svij> so yeah… could be worse ;)
[17:52] <SturmFlut> svij: I've compared the number of kernel events on krillin and arale, on average it's about the same number. So either those events are more "costly" on arale, or some hardware component doesn't really go into deep sleep, or some hardware component consumes more power to begin with.
[17:55] <SturmFlut> At least the GPU driver claims that the GPU is sleeping
[18:00] <Tm_T> I have to recharge my MX4 every night even on moderate use
[18:01] <SturmFlut> Tm_T: I think people like Selene have to look at it with their magic hardware measuring devices
[18:07] <svij> SturmFlut: interesting
[18:08] <svij> heh, someone hacked the Meizu Invitation thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/3b2kqk/ubuntu_meizu_mx4_for_europe_invitations_game_hack/
[18:09] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I went through all logcat buffers on my arale, actually there are hardly any problems. RIL is sometimes unhappy with the value of the 3G network LAC field, the audio subsystem is a bit unhappy during initialisation, libEGL seems to be called without a valid context quite a bit, the sensors are unhappy with the Acceleration sensor bias
[18:09] <SturmFlut> svij: AHAHAHAHA
[18:10] <SturmFlut> svij: Well, if you are able to pull something like this off, you probably deserve as many phones as you want
[18:10] <svij> SturmFlut: if you have enough money, yes. :)
[18:10] <SturmFlut> svij: That is step 2 of the hack ;)
[18:10] <svij> :D
[18:10] <fraha_> Hi all, I have a question, hope this is the right place to ask. I want to develop an app which processes the incoming and outgoing audio stream during a call. Is there a way to do that with Ubuntu touch? Or is it hopeless to try, like i Android?
[18:13] <SturmFlut> fraha_: Hmmm, that might also depend on the hardware wiring. I have no idea if microphone and speaker are directly connected to the baseband during a call.
[18:13] <SturmFlut> jhodapp, ogra_: Ping
[18:14] <fraha_> so there is no direct audio processing by the os?
[18:14] <SturmFlut> fraha_: I am looking at the MT6582 datasheet, a moment
[18:15] <jhodapp> SturmFlut, speaker and the baseband are at least effectively connected during the call...exact hardware config I'm not sure...currently pulseaudio is not connected to this audio route at all
[18:15] <jhodapp> SturmFlut, rsalveti would know more detail
[18:15] <SturmFlut> jhodapp: I thought so, the baseband also does all the noise cancellation etc. in hardware
[18:16] <jhodapp> correct
[18:17] <SturmFlut> fraha_: It might be possible, but probably not with a lot of help from the drivers and the OS
[18:17] <SturmFlut> s/with/without/
[18:17] <fraha_> ah s**t, this means no way arround, other than e.g. writing an VoIP app...
[18:18] <jhodapp> fraha_, I believe we'll get that ability sometime in the future, although there will be apparmor restrictions around it and the like
[18:22] <SturmFlut> fraha_: At least the block diagram in the MT6582 datasheet doesn't give a clear answer. Audio codec and baseband run a big block of proprietary firmware and on this SoC they are on the same chip, so the OS is not forced to care about calls, it can just tell those two to talk directly to each other
[18:22] <fraha_> thanks for the answers, now i really have to think about another effient way to manipulate audio during a call with mobile phone, give me headache :)
[18:23] <fraha_> SturmFlut: this means that the core functionality of ubuntu touch depens on closed source drivers and firmware?
[18:24] <SturmFlut> fraha_: Yep, like any other phone. There is no chip on the market that supports up to date mobile technologies and has an open firmware at the same time
[18:24] <SturmFlut> Not even the Neo900 solves this problem
[18:25] <SturmFlut> :(
[18:26] <fraha_> ... and i will never understand why..
[18:27] <SturmFlut> fraha_: Well, there are a lot of problems that contribute to this situation.
[18:29] <fraha_> Like money? I guess this is the biggest problem, if it is security they are doing something wrong...
[18:29] <SturmFlut> fraha_: The most important one being that we can't have people running around with modified baseband firmware, a single error can take down multiple networks in a whole area. Baseband vendors go through a lot of testing to make sure that their hardware and software doesn't randomly kill networks, Joe Random does not.
[18:30] <SturmFlut> I trust hackers, but there are a lot of lunatics out there who don't know what they're doing and will just apply random changes from the internet because they think their 4G gets faster or something
[18:30] <SturmFlut> Just look at what some people do to their WiFi chipsets and drivers
[18:33] <fraha_> I can see your point... never underestimate stupidity :)
[18:41] <SturmFlut> fraha_: The other is money, yes. If you want to build an LTE Cat 4 radio from scratch, just reading through all the standard documents will keep a team of people busy for a year. Then it's another couple of years until full validation is completed and rollout can be attempted.
[19:10] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/06/why-it-will-be-2016-before-mobile-carriers-sell-ubuntu-phones
[19:11] <SturmFlut> lotuspsychje: Well, 2016 is just six months away
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> silly comments in that article
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> whats wron with telegram anyway
[19:11] <SturmFlut> lotuspsychje: Never read comments on the Internet
[19:12] <SturmFlut> That's why I ditched Reddit
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> i love touch on my n7
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> and much more safer then android
[19:12] <SturmFlut> But while we're at it, I can counter with https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg13704.html
[19:13] <lotuspsychje> cool
[19:14] <SturmFlut> I love the part about the contest, and especially the "I am not a developer and cannot exactly assess how much efforts it is" at the end
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> android is a nightmare of malware
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> why do we need those vulnerable apps anyway
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> mainstream users are also unaware of all security risks
[19:19] <SturmFlut> At the end it's always about WhatsApp, all the time.  Of all the services in the world they chose the most asocial one and they don't even get it.
[19:20] <SturmFlut> Stockholm Syndrome, I can't think of another explanation
[19:20] <lotuspsychje> SturmFlut: did you see whatsapp is now on linux too
[19:22] <lotuspsychje> SturmFlut: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/introducing-the-unofficial-whatsapp-client-for-linux-mac-and-windows-485195.shtml
[19:22] <SturmFlut> lotuspsychje: No it's not. What is available is a thin wrapper around WhatsApp Web, and WhatsApp Web is a joke.
[19:22] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:23] <lotuspsychje> i wouldnt know, i wont touch whatsapp ever
[19:23] <SturmFlut> WhatsApp Web is not even a standalone client like web.telegram.org
[19:23] <SturmFlut> You can only use WhatsApp Web if your smartphone is running WhatsApp at the same time
[19:23] <lotuspsychje> oO
[19:23] <lotuspsychje> what an idea
[19:24] <SturmFlut> When the phone goes offline, WhatsApp Web just stops working
[19:24] <SturmFlut> And I am absolutely sure that they are already looking for ways to shut down this inofficial client
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> meanwhile users get h4cked on whatsapp all around the globe
[19:35] <SturmFlut> Is anybody here using OSMScout?
[20:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, i'm having some trouble running the libqofono tests
[20:22] <kenvandine> it says to stop and start ofono during the test run?
[20:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, can you try the tests in lp:~ken-vandine/ubuntu/wily/libqofono/libqofono-0.79
[20:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, i did upload it to the phablet-team ppa
[22:05] <SturmFlut> Update time! http://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/2015/06/27/ubuntu-app-scope-wishlist-june-2015/
[22:07] <BOHverkill> SturmFlut: nice \o/


[03:46] <mozmck> ok, I found the problem with the kernelconfig script.  line 30: bindir="`pwd`/${DROOT}/scripts/misc"
[03:46] <mozmck> but DROOT is not set
[03:47] <mozmck> so I added: DROOT=debian to debian/debian.env and kernelconfig now works
[15:09] <Q-FUNK> apw: hi!  any suggestion for bug #241307 ?
[15:09] <ubot3> Malone bug 241307 in linux "[Geode SC] [DBE60] kernels >= 2.6.22 fail to boot [A20 interrupt]" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241307
[16:31] <psusi> I have a fairly reproducible kernel hang while unmounting.  this time while the unmount was hung, I tried sysrq-s to sync and the whole system hung for a few minutes.... got a sysrq-t during this time... what else should I try to do to find out more about the problem and report it?
[16:39] <psusi> ahh, looks like it's already reported as bug #543617
[16:39] <ubot3> Malone bug 543617 in linux "very slow filesystem I/O" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/543617


[00:00] <ochosi> well, he asked whether we had changed the wallpaper name (which we haven't) or the gsettings schema
[00:00] <bluesabre> nope, all the same
[00:00] <bluesabre> still a symlink
[00:01] <ochosi> yup
[00:01] <ochosi> so i told him that both of us had looked into it without result
[00:02] <ochosi> hope he'll come up with something
[00:02] <ochosi> but we'll better ping him about it on tuesday or something
[00:02] <bluesabre> ok, sounds like a good idea
[00:06] <ochosi> other than that, i think we're heading pretty much straight for the release, nothing much left for now, or did i miss anything?
[00:07] <bluesabre> its smooth sailing from here
[00:07] <ochosi> good good
[00:07] <ochosi> then we can start planning the next cycle early
[00:07] <bluesabre> yup
[00:07] <ochosi> i feel a lot less exhausted than after 14.04
[00:08] <ochosi> maybe start with a simple list and then translate that into blueprints/workitems or trello
[00:08] <ochosi> that is actually one more issue we should discuss at some point
[00:08] <ochosi> (trello and where to go with that)
[00:08] <bluesabre> indeed
[00:09] <bluesabre> I'm trying to get a headstart on the next menulibre, with a reset button for some of the dreadful bugs... and need to get my patches together for light-locker
[00:10] <ochosi> right, l-l 1.6 would be a good goal for 15.04
[00:11] <ochosi> and theoretically we can either integrate l-l-s with l-l or integrate l-l's settings with xfpm
[00:13] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:13] <bluesabre> some good goals so far
[00:16] <ochosi> then possibly continue reviewing our default apps set
[00:16] <bluesabre> if geary would add PGP support, I'd totally be pushing for that
[00:17] <bluesabre> the current release is insanely stable and fast
[00:17] <ochosi> actually even without that, we could look into it
[00:17] <ochosi> then it might also make sense to look at alternatives for firefox
[00:17] <ochosi> (midori again?)
[00:18] <bluesabre> its pretty stable, just wondering when the gtk3+npapi build will be default
[00:18] <ochosi> yeah, we could ask around
[00:18] <ochosi> as long as it's not lts, we could give that a trial run
[00:19] <bluesabre> gotta be careful not to become xfce-elementary though
[00:19] <bluesabre> :)
[00:19] <ochosi> haha
[00:19] <ochosi> well, do we?
[00:20] <ochosi> frankly, i don't mind. xubuntu resembled gnome2 pretty closely when i joined
[00:20] <bluesabre> thats true
[00:20] <ochosi> it's obvious that not every distro/desktop will have its unique set of apps
[00:20] <ochosi> and that's actually also quite good
[00:20] <ochosi> there is enough fragmentation as it is
[00:21] <bluesabre> thats true
[00:21] <ochosi> also, you can't easily customize elementary, while you can do that with xfce
[00:22] <ochosi> (or pantheon, if that is actually the name of their DE, never sure..)
[00:22] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:22] <bluesabre> I'm getting repetitive :)
[00:22] <ochosi> hehe
[00:22] <bluesabre> say something I can disagree with
[00:22] <bluesabre> :D
[00:23] <ochosi> that's fine, as long as i can continue being right
[00:23] <ochosi> we could look into fixing any outstanding greeter issues too btw
[00:23] <bluesabre> yup
[00:23] <ochosi> oh, how serious were you about re-forking gnome-screensaver?
[00:24] <bluesabre> don't want to start the fork unless there is a serious need
[00:24] <bluesabre> will there be a vt-switch free light-locker before the next lts?
[00:24] <ochosi> righty, well it would be good to put a lid on the resume issues before the next lts
[00:24] <ochosi> that is exactly the question
[00:24] <ochosi> i haven't seen cavalier around a lot lately (or at all, to be truthful)
[00:25] <ochosi> i know i won't have time to look into making ll emulate lightdm
[00:25] <ochosi> and actually, what originally made gnome-screensaver nice was that it worked with any display manager
[00:25] <ochosi> but yeah, the visual consistency is not as good as it gets like that
[00:26] <bluesabre> yeah, there's good and bad to each solution
[00:26] <ochosi> (although with gtk-greeter, we also use *one* gtk theme for all users)
[00:26] <ochosi> i think we could probably patch using the current user's wallpaper into gnome-screensaver
[00:26] <ochosi> with accountsservice
[00:26] <bluesabre> yeah, for sure
[00:27] <ochosi> and then make the layout resemble gtk-greeter
[00:27] <ochosi> in its default xubuntu setup
[00:27] <ochosi> and that would be enough for almost all users
[00:27] <ochosi> (except those that fiddle with the login screen)
[00:27] <ochosi> as long as we don't ship greeter-settings, i don't see a big problem with that
[00:28] <ochosi> we could most likely patch out all gnome depends
[00:28] <ochosi> and still keep stuff like fadeout
[00:28] <ochosi> we might have to create a new/separate settings dialog
[00:28] <ochosi> or integrate it with xfpm
[00:28] <ochosi> and we'd have to give it a new name and add support to xflock
[00:28] <bluesabre> honestly, we could probably add a locker to the greeter code
[00:29] <bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-locker
[00:29] <ochosi> right, but why would that not do a vt switch?
[00:29] <ochosi> i mean after all lightdm causes the vt switch, not the greeter, right?
[00:29] <bluesabre> we just wouldn't vt-switch... we'd only use the same code for drawing the lock screen
[00:29] <ochosi> oh
[00:30] <bluesabre> since the code is there to interpret the UI paremeters
[00:30] <ochosi> righ
[00:30] <ochosi> t
[00:30] <ochosi> so integrate it in the same package/code
[00:30] <ochosi> that would work
[00:30] <bluesabre> yeah, thats an option
[00:30] <ochosi> but frankly, as the greeter code becomes more flexible and complex now, we'd have to add support for the various config options andrew added
[00:30]  * ochosi is not a huge fan
[00:31] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:31] <ochosi> and lightdm-gtk-locker is a misleading name, since it doesnt have anything to do with lightdm anymore
[00:31] <bluesabre> lockscreens are a pain
[00:31] <bluesabre> :)
[00:31] <ochosi> yup
[00:32] <bluesabre> you should also rename light-locker to lightdm-locker
[00:32] <bluesabre> the non-lightdm users are around :)
[00:32] <ochosi> i guess we could sneak out of most problems by calling that new gnome-screensaver fork xubuntu-locker
[00:32] <ochosi> so all users of other distros would get their bugs marked as invalid
[00:32] <ochosi> true that
[00:33] <ochosi> i guess in a weekend we could whip up that new fork...
[00:33] <ochosi> not sure whether light-locker2.0 can be done so quickly
[00:37] <bluesabre> yeah
[00:37] <bluesabre> a weekend might be a bit of a stretch ;)
[00:41] <pleia2> I have a meeting to schedule, but it's been 32432 degrees at home lately so I shun my computer
[00:41]  * pleia2 will get to it eventually
[00:41] <ochosi> :)
[00:42] <ochosi> bluesabre: not sure, we can start out from where i had removed the gnome depends of gnome-screensaver
[00:42] <ochosi> the layout was already similar
[00:42] <bluesabre> pleia2: jealous... a friend of mine got married yesterday on a windy, 45F day
[00:43] <bluesabre> then its 65F today
[00:43] <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, I guess you guys have already done most of the work
[00:43] <ochosi> pretty much this: https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/commit/3d7cf431c6db2f23fe424ef2f52512654e38d2cf
[00:43] <pleia2> 90F in my condo right now :\ san francisco octobers are the hottest time of year
[00:44] <ochosi> wow
[00:44] <bluesabre> dang
[00:44] <ochosi> here it's already very autumy
[00:44] <pleia2> I stayed in a hotel last night :D
[00:44] <ochosi> (or autumny)
[00:44] <ochosi> (although that feels more difficult to pronounce)
[00:44]  * pleia2 back to non-computery things
[00:44] <ochosi> hf pleia2
[00:49] <ochosi> bluesabre: theoretically one could port the GnomeRR stuff to xrandr or something...
[00:49] <ochosi> lots of potential to spend time still
[00:49] <ochosi> anyway, now it's time to head to bed
[00:50] <skellat> bluesabre: Could LP Bug 1377717 wait until Victorious Velociraptor or do we want it in for Utopic Unicorn?
[00:52] <skellat> I just spotted it in my overwatch e-mail folder and can't seem to grasp its urgency
[00:52] <bluesabre> skellat: it'd probably be fine for either really... but yeah, seems non-essential
[00:53] <skellat> Sponsors are subscribed to it.  Do you want to leave remarks as XTL as to priority?
[00:55] <bluesabre> it's pretty low priority... Nosckaj, I can sync that you know
[00:56] <bluesabre> let me know its urgency, and I can sync as early as tomorrow
[00:57] <ochosi> night everyone
[00:57] <bluesabre> night ochosi
[01:09] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, It's a very minor, low regression change. That was my reasoning for syncing it.
[01:09] <Noskcaj> just mark as invalid if you think it can wait
[08:46] <ochosi> morning everyone
[08:49] <ochosi> pleia2: hey there, any idea yet for when you wanna schedule the next meeting?
[12:56] <elfy> good afternoon
[13:00] <ochosi> hey elfy
[13:11] <ochosi> bluesabre: btw, the most recent geary version looks a bit odd with greybird (well, actually mostly the bottom buttonbar in the compose dialog). guess if we're checkin it out for default i have some work to do
[14:49] <elfy> anything happened to the black background bug at all?
[14:53] <elfy> sigh ... so can anyone boot a 64bit vbox and confirm that it ends up at a black screen
[14:53] <elfy> then go to tty1 and run sudo service lightdm status and get start/waiting
[14:53] <elfy> and then go to tty7 and see the login dialogue ok now
[15:17] <elfy> don't worry about confirming the lightdm status
[17:56] <pleia2> so, thinking 20:00 on Tuesday the 14th for our next meeting
[17:56] <pleia2> after that week I'm away from home for a month, so things get tricky
[17:58] <elfy> wfm - RC that week
[17:58]  * pleia2 nods
[18:06] <knome> 20utc?
[18:07] <pleia2> yeah
[18:07] <pleia2> always utc
[18:45] <ochosi> elfy: yeah i talked to xnox about it, he promised to look into it
[18:46] <elfy> excellent - thanks ochosi
[18:46] <ochosi> i'll ping him about it again tomorrow
[22:17] <bluesabre> hey all
[22:17] <knome> hey bluesabre
[22:18] <bluesabre> hey knome
[23:35] <knome> bluesabre, again, i guess no news on the packageset updatE?


[14:51] <yano> https://www.futureme.org/
[14:51] <jenni> [ FutureMe.org: Write a Letter to the Future ] - https://www.futureme.org
[19:18] <yano> important Adobe Flash updates out: if you are using Chrome go to chrome://components and click "check for update" for Adobe Flash
[20:45] <dzho> I thought Chrome used its own Flash engine?
[20:45] <dzho> or is this a protocol or format vuln to which the Chrome engine is also susceptible to?
[20:58] <yano> http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2017/01/09/supersonic-hyperloop-between-chicago-and.html
[20:58] <jenni> https://bit.ly/2jwvDzx


[14:26] <chris_uk[m]> Greetings. I am having fairly regular (once a month) (Bluetooth) keyboard lockups at login. Mouse moves but cannot type password. So have to do hard reboots. Is there any alternative way of dealing with this situation?
[14:27] <chris_uk[m]> Ubuntu Studio 21.10.
[14:39] <Iamthehuman1> Sorry to hear you are having such a problem chris_uk[m]. IMO that could be a bug in US, could be a bug in the bluetooth keyboard
[14:40] <Iamthehuman1> So you have a bluetooth mouse _and_ bluetooth keyboard?
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> Iamthehuman1: Ubuntu Studio doesn't maintain 90% of what goes into it. Remember, it's just a different default installation of Ubuntu.
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> chris_uk[m]: That's a little expected with Bluetooth as, when first logging-in (like, after a restart), it takes a few seconds for your keyboard and computer to negotiate the connection.
[17:24] <chris_uk[m]> Yes, Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Is there any way to  avoid hard reboots?
[17:31] <Eickmeyer> chris_uk[m]: That depends on what is being updated. For the most part, you shouldn't have to reboot, but if there's any kernel updates (think for security) that will require a reboot.
[17:32] <Eickmeyer> A periodic reboot is in your best interest. A few seconds of bluetooth keyboard negotiation is a small price to pay for bug fixes and security updates.


  It was not fueled by anger
[14:12] <nigelb> It was a fun discussion
[14:12] <nisshh> oh ok, didnt sound like it from your description
[14:12] <nigelb> And the discussion was not a 'for the heck of it' discussion
[14:12] <nigelb> There was a debian BoF, Ubuntu BoF, and fedora BoF :)
[14:13] <nigelb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hiemanshu/sets/72157625637629940/
[14:13] <nisshh> BoF?
[14:13] <nigelb> Birds of a Feather
[14:13] <nisshh> that still doesnt make sense to me :)
[14:14] <nigelb> nisshh: remember your english?
[14:14] <nigelb> 'birds of a feather flock together' ?
[14:15] <nisshh> nigelb, no, remember im 19 and havent gone to uni and i also nearly failed english in high school, so best not to assume i know stuff like that :)
[14:16] <nigelb> nisshh: oops, sorry :)
[14:16] <doctormo> nisshh: Don't worry, I'm english and I hate that phrase.
[14:16] <nisshh> nigelb, lol, no worries :)
[14:16] <nisshh> doctormo, hehe
[14:16] <doctormo> It means: "Those from the same class should only work with and marry those in the same class"
[14:16] <nisshh> oh ok\
[14:17] <nisshh> that makes complete sense</sarcasm> :)
[14:17] <doctormo> More tea time!
[14:18] <doctormo> nisshh: What did you think of my genetic wallpapers package, have you tried it?
[14:18] <nisshh> doctormo, no?
[14:19] <nisshh> doctormo, whats the package name, ill try it now (maverick?)
[14:19] <doctormo> I'm trying to get more people to test it: http://doctormo.org/2010/12/18/genetic-wallpapers-now-available-to-test/
[14:19] <doctormo> Thanks nisshh :-)
[14:20] <nisshh> doctormo, np, interesting project :)
[14:20] <nigelb> nisshh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_Feather_(computing)
[14:21] <nigelb> Finally I found the wiki for it *gasp*
[14:21] <doctormo> I'm waiting for the first person to spot the christmas tree I put in for dec 25th
[14:22] <nisshh> nigelb, hehe
[14:24] <nisshh> doctormo, so is this a bit like the electricsheep screensavers, except its for wallpapers?
[14:24] <doctormo> Yes, It was Mark's idea.
[14:24] <duanedesign> doctormo: i really like your blog posts and stuff you did with the wallpapers
[14:24] <nisshh> i see
[14:24] <doctormo> duanedesign: Fancy making a wallpaper? :-)
[14:25] <duanedesign> ahhh, perfeect timing you were just discussing it
[14:25] <nigelb> I hate it that doctormo's website blocks me access
[14:25] <nigelb> Probably vish hates it too
[14:25] <nigelb> doctormo: We, the Indian loco community, humbly request you to change providers
[14:26] <doctormo> nigelb: It's not my website that blocks you, it's India's ISP policy.
[14:26] <nigelb> I doubt
[14:26] <nigelb> becaue I can see everyother website
[14:26] <duanedesign> doctormo: one of the first projects i ever worked on was 'weather wallpaper' not quite as neat as this concept but similar
[14:26] <nisshh> this just in: India ISP's dont like doctormo!
[14:26] <nisshh> :)
[14:26] <duanedesign> doctormo: yes i was just brainstorming some ideas
[14:27] <doctormo> No it's not about India not liking me, it's about India not liking residential IP addresses.
[14:27] <nigelb> probably that too ;)
[14:27] <doctormo> duanedesign: I was thinking if we could get a nice simple landscape and make the clouds randomly position themselves.
[14:28] <doctormo> nigelb: Can you see leftyfb's blog (Mike Rushton) on the planet?
[14:28] <nigelb> I can see you on the plat
[14:28] <nigelb> planet
[14:29] <nigelb> just not directly
[14:31] <doctormo> nigelb: No I mean if you click on his blog, what does it do?
[14:32] <nigelb> doctormo: err, linky?
[14:32] <doctormo> *sigh* I was pointing you to where the link was.
[14:33] <nigelb> right
[14:33] <nigelb> okay
[14:33] <nigelb> planet
[14:33] <doctormo> http://leftyfb.com/
[14:34] <nigelb> doctormo: similar
[14:34] <nisshh> doctormo, the wallpaper is working well so far :)
[14:37] <nigelb> doctormo: had to proxy in to see your website.  #AgeekCannotBeStopped
[14:40] <AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/705/
[14:40] <nigelb> haha
[14:40] <nigelb> we had a guy at the unconference with the sudo make me a sandwch T-shirt
[14:41] <nigelb> I wanted to go with the 'stand back, I know regular expressions' one ;)
[14:44] <doctormo> Science, it works bitches!
[14:44] <nisshh> hehe
[15:09] <duanedesign> doctormo: so if i create a wallpaper with the proper id= blob1-7 it should plug in fairly easy
[15:11] <duanedesign> sorry that was a question. not sure why i have such an aversion to question marks :P
[15:11] <doctormo> duanedesign: So long as the parent group has the right id then all the children can be called anything
[15:11] <duanedesign> ahhh
[15:14] <jcastro> nigelb: I never get distro trolled
[15:16] <nigelb> jcastro: BUt you get worse :(
[15:17] <jcastro> yeah but I can flame worse too
[15:17]  * jcastro shakes fist at CoC
[15:17] <jcastro> I asked for an exception to allow me to kill people at my discretion
[15:17] <jcastro> but no one liked that idea. :(
[15:18] <nigelb> jcastro: I'd +1 any day :p
[15:21] <nigelb> jcastro: I don't have flaming skills.  I had to reason it out.  Harder.
[15:21] <popey> jcastro: do what one guy did, he unsigned the CoC, flamed, then re-signed it
[15:21] <greg-g> lol
[15:22] <nigelb> haha
[15:23] <nigelb> popey: If *cough* tabloid *cough* heard of this it would go "CC member say flaming is okay if you unsign the CoC and sign it later" :P
[15:23] <jcastro> popey: really? no way
[15:23] <popey> hah
[15:23] <popey> nah nigelb I know where he lives
[15:23] <popey> "CC member threatens community with violence to shut them up"
[15:25] <nigelb> haha
[15:25] <jcastro> I don't get how/when people get in situations inside ubuntu where they need to flame
[15:25] <nigelb> Inside, I've hardly found trolling.
[15:25] <jcastro> like, I can understand when dealing with other people outside the community
[15:25] <popey> jcastro: thats because you suck
[15:25] <popey> etc
[15:25] <jcastro> but like I've never felt the need to like, yell at popey
[15:26] <popey> not until after you hang up?
[15:26] <popey> thing is though we have roughly equal moral / philosophical compases
[15:26] <popey> in that they generally point the same way
[15:27] <popey> whereas there are some in the community who are vheremently for/against issues and can't see how anyone could have an opposing view
[15:27] <nigelb> +1
[15:28] <nigelb> Also people who don't troll tend to see both sides.
[15:28] <nigelb> i.e. the for/against and agree to accept reasoned arguments
[15:28] <nigelb> If someone isn't willing to respect reasoned arguments, well, then its time to stop talking.
[15:28] <popey> there's also the fact that many of us have a healthy respect for the freedom of others to hold different opinions
[15:29] <nigelb> That's true too.
[15:35] <paultag> Anyone have an idea for Myth Busted #7 ?
[15:36] <jcastro> paultag is awesome?
[15:36] <jcastro> hahaha, couldn't help it
[15:37] <paultag> hahaha
[15:37] <paultag> jcastro: how's life in that swamp called michigan ?
[15:37] <maco> michigan's a swamp too?
[15:38] <paultag> maco: duh ;)
[15:42] <nigelb> lol http://twitter.com/#!/dibiconf/statuses/16819245404913664
[15:43] <paultag> hahahaha, it's drunk as hell ;)
[15:45] <nigelb> is it just me or has gmail been letting in too much spam lately
[15:45] <jcastro> mine is just slow
[15:46] <paultag> nigelb: I've always got a bit, but 90% of my spam comes from mailing lists
[15:46] <paultag> nigelb: so watch for that
[15:46] <nigelb> hrm, I found at least 4 spam, all of them the pharmaceutical type and not from mailing lists
[15:46] <paultag> ha!
[15:46] <Pendulum> I've had a couple bits of spam recently, but not a huge number
[15:47] <paultag> nigelb: just do what I do, have a series of email addresses. my @ubuntu and @gmail marks * as read coming in. I have another address that puts it in the inbox unread
[15:47] <Pendulum> (that's not counting the amount of junk I get for people who have given out the wrong e-mail address to things like their ISP)
[15:47] <paultag> and it's a sekrit
[15:48] <nigelb> Pendulum: 4 spam in gmail is big, especially since they make videos about their excellent spam filter
[15:48] <Pendulum> nigelb: yeah, I'm talking about maybe 2 bits in the past 4 months. all long lost relatives I didn't know I had who have apparently died leaving me an inheritance ;)
[15:49] <nigelb> Pendulum: heh
[16:10] <doctormo> Talking of arguments, I find that reasoning out issues is hard work and it can really only be done by two opposing factions which are willing to admit they're both wrong.
[16:11] <doctormo> But there is a lot of people who just don't want to put the work in, so they avoid conflict.
[16:11] <doctormo> And it festers instead.
[16:14] <paultag> howdy there doctormo
[16:15] <doctormo> hey paultag, you need ideas for your myth busting?
[16:15] <paultag> doctormo: yeah
[16:18] <nigelb> paultag: About QA perhaps?
[16:19] <nigelb> or the 6-month cadence
[16:19] <paultag> there's not much there to debate
[16:20] <nigelb> people say we don't do enough QA and 6 months is impossible?
[16:20] <paultag> I mean, we've shown it's not impossible, and we don't do enough QA. It's not absurd to say that Ubuntu picks new features over stability
[16:20] <nigelb> :D
[16:21] <paultag> our boot splash broke every intel video card for 6 months
[16:21] <paultag> I mean, really.
[16:22] <jcastro> really?
[16:22] <jcastro> mine didn't
[16:22] <nigelb> *cough* mine did *cough*
[16:22] <paultag> jcastro: there's a race condition for the initrd + bootsplash for intel chipsets
[16:22] <paultag> jcastro: for lucid
[16:22] <jcastro> dang
[16:23] <paultag> nigelb: mine did too, man
[16:23] <paultag> I just switched that box to Debian
[16:23] <nigelb> paultag: heh, I switched to Debian too at that point
[16:23] <Pendulum> what's worse about that is that it was Lucid so it was the LTS :-/
[16:23] <paultag> +100 there Pendulum
[16:24] <jcastro> all my splashes worked in lucid on intel
[16:24] <paultag> we had *so* many changes
[16:24] <paultag> it should have just been 9.04 + patches
[16:24] <maco> paultag: does that explain why one of my computers sometimes shows plymouth and then just stops?
[16:24] <Pendulum> I'm getting nervous about the accessibility testing for Unity
[16:24] <paultag> maco: does it hang or complete boot?
[16:25] <Pendulum> none of the accessibility-related things got done for Alpha 1
[16:25] <maco> paultag: it hangs after plymouth. most reports said stuff hung *before* plymouth
[16:25] <nigelb> Pendulum: oh dear.
[16:25] <paultag> maco: it sounds like the issue
[16:25] <paultag> maco: is 10.10 free?
[16:25] <maco> paultag: havent upgraded. no bandwidth.
[16:26] <maco> (and no optical drive that works)
[16:26] <paultag> maco: It sounds like it to me
[16:27] <paultag> maco: but I don't know all the ins and outs
[16:27] <paultag> jcastro: dunno, man. It's finkiy
[16:27] <paultag> jcastro: I spend most of that cycle telling people to downgrade when they came in with issues
[16:27] <jcastro> I don't disagree that we need more testing and QA, I'm just surprised to hear about intel video on lucid
[16:27] <maco> jcastro: is it bad that i think devel releases work better than stable releases?
[16:27] <paultag> jcastro: dude, the kernel team has tons of reports on it
[16:28] <jcastro> dang
[16:28] <paultag> jcastro: it hit my netbook and almost knocked me out a cycle
[16:28] <jcastro> ouch
[16:28] <maco> jcastro: any report that mentions the GLib warning? that was probably it
[16:28] <maco> because the GLib warning was *not* causing any problems. however, it was *only* visible when boot failed
[16:28] <maco> (otherwise plymouth then gdm covers it)
[16:30] <paultag> maco: lame
[16:30] <paultag> maco: have you filed a bug on it?
[16:30] <maco> paultag: the GLib warning is gone now. was fixed a few weeks back
[16:31] <maco> the reports then got people complaining that the boot still fails even though they claim its fixed...and the answer is "the glib warning IS fixed! now how about you report your actual issue"
[16:31] <paultag> haha, aye. That's usually the case with kernel stuff
[16:31] <nigelb> lol
[16:34] <jcastro> I blame jfo
[16:34] <nigelb> lol
[16:35] <nigelb> dammit he's not here for a retort
[16:35] <maco> i think if i phone him and said "jcastro blames you" he'd say "blames me? aw now what? what i do?"
[16:36] <jcastro> then he'll be like "wanna watch some NASCAR?"
[16:36] <jcastro> maco: did you start watching Modern Family yet?
[16:37] <maco> jcastro: no, i still have neither a tv nor a streaming-capable network connection
[16:37] <doctormo> My computer broke for lucid and maverick, lucid stopped being able to suspend... fixed after 3 months. Maverick failed to boot at all, couldn't see the motherboard pci, had to use lucid kernel. ongoing issue.
[16:37] <doctormo> We have serious quality control issues
[16:37] <maco> feisty and hardy are my fave releases
[16:37] <czajkowski> Karmic was mine
[16:38] <maco> sorry, make that feisty-two-weeks-after-release
[16:38] <maco> because it released with a regression but a fix was quickly SRUd
[16:38] <paultag> 9.10 ftw
[16:38] <paultag> the white logo on black was HOT
[16:38] <maco> ugh no
[16:39] <maco> that was the first time i thought ubuntu's brown was *bad*
[16:39] <paultag> oh man, how could you!
[16:39]  * czajkowski pokes paultag
[16:39] <maco> the gdm theme? ugh
[16:39] <paultag> czajkowski: howdy!
[16:39] <paultag> maco: much better then 8* or 7*
[16:39] <maco> it was a pretty crappy gradient too... like ripples instead of smooth
[16:39] <nisshh> im going to start a new trend in this channel!
[16:40] <maco> oh no no 8.04 was *beautiful*
[16:40] <paultag> bollocks
[16:40] <paultag> 9* was perfect
[16:40] <maco> well 8.04a5 was more beautiful than final, but...
[16:40] <nisshh> since everyone is saying howdy all the time, im going to say "gday mate!" all the time :)
[16:40] <paultag> nisshh: do it! :)
[16:40] <nisshh> we need an australian touch in here
[16:40] <paultag> nisshh: are you an Oz?
[16:40] <nisshh> yeah
[16:41] <maco> whoever subdued the colours in hardy's wallpaper makes me unhappy
[16:41] <AlanBell> G'day nisshh
[16:41] <nisshh> streuth! you didnt know that!?
[16:41] <maco> troy's version was very nice
[16:41] <nisshh> AlanBell, :)
[16:41] <paultag> nisshh: never noticed. I love the beached whale thing from Oz, "I'm beached bru!"
[16:41] <nisshh> paultag, yeah lol
[16:41] <paultag> good on ya
[16:42] <paultag> yo jcastro, since I switched to tumblr, I have got over 500 followers on tumblr
[16:42] <nisshh> paultag, notice i said "streuth!"  It feels right again.
[16:50] <Pendulum> paultag: enjoying the escape from Ohio then? ;-)
[16:50] <paultag> Pendulum: yuppers!
[16:50] <paultag> Pendulum: It's nice, actually. Good to be back home for a while
[16:50] <paultag> I miss my friends lots, but it's OK.
[16:50] <Pendulum> paultag: do you have snow up there?
[16:51] <paultag> Pendulum: Ohio? Heck yeah. Boston? Nopersd
[16:51] <paultag> nopers *
[16:51] <Pendulum> paultag: I meant Boston. None here either. It's kinda depressing :(
[16:51] <paultag> we have 5 days :)
[16:52] <paultag> shoot I need to get something for my sister
[16:52] <paultag> what should I get for her?
[16:53] <nisshh> Pendulum, your depressed about no snow? we *never* get snow in australia! never! :)
[16:54] <Pendulum> paultag: jewelry?
[16:54] <nisshh> ive never even seen it with my own eyes!
[16:54] <Pendulum> nisshh: we normally have snow here by Christmas. The lack thereof makes it not feel christmassy
[16:54] <nisshh> Pendulum, true :)
[16:54] <nisshh> its currently 24 C here
[16:55] <nisshh> nice and warm for 1am :)
[16:55] <nigelb> hah, aussies celebrate christmas in summer ;p
[16:58] <nisshh> yeah
[16:58] <paultag> Pendulum: hummm. Her hair-dryer just broke. Is that socially acceptable?
[16:58] <nisshh> nigelb, it means i get to swim in my pool on christmas day :)
[16:59]  * paultag shakes fist at nisshh
[16:59] <paultag> kidding, I love the snow
[16:59] <Pendulum> paultag: sure
[16:59] <paultag> humm. Might do that, then
[17:00] <nisshh> paultag, hehe
[17:01] <paultag> BBL, I need to shop somewhere
[17:02] <paultag> one love
[17:06] <jono> hey all
[17:08] <nisshh> jono, gday! :)
[17:13] <maco> paultag: i asked my dad's gf for a printer cartridge for xmas...
[17:13] <dpm> have a great day everyone, see you all tomorrow!
[17:19] <jono> heya nisshh :-)
[17:19] <jono> hows tings?
[17:20] <nisshh> jono, really excellent at the moment :)
[17:20] <jono> nisshh, :-)
[17:20] <nisshh> jono, how about you?
[17:21] <jono> nisshh, doing great thanks :)
[17:21] <nisshh> :)
[17:49]  * nisshh is watching The Social Network <- excellent movie, everyone should watch this
[17:50] <nhandler> nisshh: Keep an eye on the computers. You'll see KDE a few times
[18:03] <nisshh> nhandler, yeah, and he was talking about wget, perl, etc :)
[18:03] <nisshh> pretty sweet to have such a geeky movie :)
[18:03] <nhandler> nisshh: Yep. I caught those references ;)
[18:03] <nisshh> nhandler, it looks like kde 3.x too :)
[18:04] <nisshh> blue plasticky theme
[18:04] <nisshh> from the part i have watched so far its very well made
[18:16] <jcastro> heya vish
[18:17] <vish> o/
[18:17] <jcastro> what's it take to do a bugbot like that?
[18:18] <vish>  we already have a similar bugbot running for all new bugs , we would need a specific one and one the the bot masters might know..
[18:18] <vish> bot wranglers rather, as they prefer ;p
[18:19] <vish> jcastro: i think hggdh runs that bot on  #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[18:19] <vish> we could ask him for a Unity specific one …
[18:20] <vish> jcastro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hggdh/EeeBotu
[18:21] <jcastro> oh nice, I'll ask him about it
[18:21] <nhandler> As long as there is a page to scrape or a feed to parse, such a bot is rather trivial to make
[18:21] <nhandler> Hosting is the hardest part
[18:22] <jcastro> well if he has one already maybe I can just pile on
[18:25]  * hggdh has noticed his name was used
[18:25] <hggdh> jcastro: ask away, sir
[18:25] <jcastro> hggdh: oh didn't see you in here, asked you on -bugs
[18:26] <hggdh> heh
[18:26] <jcastro> but you can answer here!
[18:27] <hggdh> jcastro: OK. The bot was written by Mike Rooney some years ago (replacing seveas', when he turned his bots down)
[18:27] <hggdh> it is a generic bot, and just feeds off the RRS for all bugs
[18:27] <jcastro> ok so how can we add it?
[18:27] <hggdh> we could change it easily to feed off specific RSSs
[18:28] <hggdh> like what you want
[18:28] <hggdh> jcastro: which channel would use it?
[18:29] <jcastro> hggdh: I was thinking creating #ayatana-bugs?
[18:29] <hggdh> BTW it was our intention, at the time, to make it a more generic bot and forward different b ugs to different channels. But we never got there...
[18:29] <hggdh> jcastro: cool
[18:30] <jcastro> nhandler: you know how to handle all that channel registration stuff right?
[18:30] <nhandler> jcastro: I should hope so ;)
[18:30] <hggdh> jcastro: I will add it in to #ayatana-bugs -- give me a bit to code it in & test a bit
[18:30] <hggdh> jcastro: then you can either run it yourself, or I can add it in my server
[18:30] <jcastro> hggdh: awesome, no rush either, just an idea vish pointed it out
[18:31] <nhandler> jcastro: Did you want me to register the channel?
[18:31] <jcastro> hggdh: I am cloud now, no servers at all in my care, so if you could host it I would <3 beer you
[18:31] <jcastro> nhandler: yes please
[18:31] <vish> lol! "would <3 beer you" !!
[18:32] <hggdh> jcastro: deal!
[18:32]  * hggdh sells out easily for a good beer
[18:32] <jcastro> there's nothing in this world that can't be accomplished when you promise either beer, wine, coffee, or tobacco.
[18:33] <hggdh> LOL
[18:33] <jcastro> I feel like an imperialist!
[18:34] <greg-g> jcastro: you are
[18:34] <vish> hggdh: do you happen to have a mail server running by any chance? same deal ツ
[18:35] <hggdh> vish: no, no mail server, Verizon gets unhappy with it :-(
[18:35] <vish> aw.. :(
[18:38] <hggdh> jcastro: unity/compiz/ayatana upstream, UBuntu, or both?
[18:39] <jcastro> upstream please
[18:39] <hggdh> ack
[18:47] <paultag> maco: dude, printer cartrage? That's like a dimond ring!
[18:47] <paultag> maco: I hope they've been dating for at least two years before you ask for that sort of high-end stuff
[18:48] <maco> paultag: haha theyve been together a decade. last year she got me a Coach purse
[18:48] <maco> what thehell am i gonna do with a Coach purse?
[18:48] <paultag> maco: I say the same sort of stuff every year. I don't think people get I don't really care for "stuff"
[18:48] <maco> it couldnt even hold my phone and wallet simultaneously! let alone a camera and ogg player too. And nevermind my laptop...
[18:49] <paultag> maco: dang, I know.
[18:49] <czajkowski> I_HATE_SNOW
[18:49] <paultag> czajkowski: how dare you!
[18:49] <paultag> It just started snowing, and I LOVE it
[18:49] <paultag> Oh yeah, Pendulum, it's snowing!
[18:50] <maco> paultag: youre gonna make her jealous
[18:50] <paultag> :)
[18:50] <jcastro> jono: 10 minutes?
[18:52] <pleia2> czajkowski: sorry to hear you're still stuck :(
[18:54] <paultag> yeah, much love there czajkowski
[18:55] <jono> jcastro, yup
[18:58] <czajkowski> feck the cider bring on the JD
[18:58] <paultag> :P
[19:00] <jcastro> jono: 2 ticks, gotta reboot that machine
[19:00] <jono> jcastro, np
[19:01] <paultag> Does anyone here know the X11 server spec well?
[19:02] <jcastro> jono: all set!
[19:02] <jcastro> \m/ >_< \m/
[19:03] <jono> jcastro, ok one sec
[19:10] <Technoviking> Hi all
[19:10] <nhandler> Hey Technoviking
[20:39] <jcastro> <-- caffeine refill, bbi 10 min
[20:56] <jcastro> popey: around?
[20:58] <jcastro> http://ubuntuaddict.com/
[20:59] <jcastro> so what do we about sites like this, is this a trademarks thing we send to the email address or CC?
[20:59] <jcastro> (this is the first time I've run into a site like this)
[21:13] <AlanBell> jcastro: don't think it is :)
[21:15] <AlanBell> however it is a trademarks thing which is held by Canonical, not the CC. There is a form to use to report it which I am assured does not go to /dev/null, but don't expect much more than if it did
[21:17] <jcastro> ah
[21:46] <jcastro> jono: my report ended up cooler this week than I anticipated
[21:46] <jcastro> jono: mind if I run it early? (aka now)
[21:47] <jono> jcastro, let's roll! :-)
[21:47] <jono> I will promote it
[21:47] <jcastro> yep I just need one bug reference
[21:47] <jcastro> jono: I also added some "other unity news" bits with some screenshots and whatnot
[21:47] <jono> jcastro, sweet! :-)
[21:57] <jcastro> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/2392757965/unity-bitesize-progress-report-for-20-december
[21:58] <jcastro> can anyone see the line that says "Here’s the interesting ones for the week. Feel free to grab any of these bugs and start hacking."
[21:58] <jcastro> it should be above the list o links
[21:59] <james_w> yep
[22:07] <jcastro> jono: I would be doomed if I moved back to wordpress. Either a) tumblr would get fixed. or b) I would run into the one time wordpress.com went down
[22:07] <jcastro> it's like the blogging internet thing is aligned against me
[22:07] <jono> jcastro, LOL, probably
[22:08] <jono> jcastro, it's because you hate identi.ca
[22:08] <jcastro> though tbh, the best experience I had was on typepad.com a few years ago, that site was solid
[22:08] <jcastro> well, I was ok with wordpress, then I found out it was also free software, so I had to move off
[22:08] <jcastro> doctormo: that was a joke!
[22:09] <jono> lol
[22:30] <hggdh> jcastro: please look at #ayatana-bugs-test
[22:31] <hggdh> jcastro: is this what you would like?
[22:34] <jcastro> that looks awesome
[22:34] <jcastro> I'll stand by for the flood
[22:35] <hggdh> jcastro: seems I am repeating the bugs, will have to dig in again
[22:36] <hggdh> ah well. Killing the bot, and finding out where I messed up :-(
[22:36] <jcastro> heh
[22:37] <nhandler> hggdh: #ayatana-bugs is empty/new. You can test there
[22:38] <hggdh> nhandler: oh, OK, thanks, I did not want to spam the users I thought would be there...
[22:38] <nhandler> hggdh: I just registered it today. And I don't really mind spam
[22:42] <hggdh> :-)
[22:49] <hggdh> nhandler: I had to do a major surgery on the bot; as soon as I feel confident the bot is not going to go postal, I will move it to my prod server, and replace the currently-running eeebotu
[22:52] <czajkowski> aloha
[22:52] <AlanBell> evening
[22:53] <Pendulum> hiya
[22:53]  * AlanBell hands czajkowski a copy of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/
[22:54] <czajkowski> jono: you will never guess where I've to stay for 6 hours tonight!
[22:54] <jono> czajkowski, aitport?
[22:54] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I am convienced my life is an epsode of faulty towers
[22:54] <AlanBell> jono: worse :)
[22:54] <czajkowski> jono: one better! WOLVERHAMPTON!
[22:54] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I'm sorry
[22:54] <jono> czajkowski, nice!
[22:54] <jono> where are you staying? the novatel?
[22:54] <czajkowski> train station
[22:54] <czajkowski> get there at 2am
[22:55] <czajkowski> leave again at 6am
[22:55] <czajkowski> but I did laugh when I found out it was via wolverhampton I had to go through and thought of you and Aq
[22:58] <AlanBell> is there somewhere warm to stay in the station?
[22:58] <Pendulum> especially is there somewhere warm to stay in the station that will be open at 2AM?
[22:59] <czajkowski> no idea yet
[22:59] <czajkowski> still in Euston on free wifi
[22:59] <hggdh> jcastro: it should be easy now to add other projects to monitor bugs for, and channels to display them
[23:22] <czajkowski> Anyone else think that Jonathan Lange  looks like Michael McIntyre  http://www.chortle.co.uk/images/photos/small/mmcintrye.jpg
[23:22] <czajkowski> http://ep2009.europython.eu/images/speakers/lange_jonathan_tmb.jpg
[23:25] <czajkowski> boo no Jfo
[23:48] <doctormo> jcastro: lol