[03:02] <kylem> crimsun, ping
[03:30] <BenC> kylem: Hey
[03:31] <BenC> kylem: You busted acx :)
[03:31] <kylem> eh?
[03:31] <BenC> wait, I misread the diff
[03:32] <BenC> I thought it lost the firmware_ver stuff
[03:32] <kylem> i'm pretty sure it's ok
[03:32] <kylem> i test bilt it
[03:32] <BenC> but loading it would have been the problem
[03:33] <BenC> the firmware_ver stuff was all custom code I added a while back to make it easier to change to a different firmware
[03:33] <kylem> heh, i read through the diff too
[03:33] <kylem> hmm, this alsa-firmware thing is confusing.
[03:33] <BenC> was the firmware_ver merged upstream?
[03:34] <BenC> kylem: FYI, debian/commit-templates/external-driver for new drivers
[03:34] <kylem> no clue, i just read through the patch.
[03:34] <kylem> BenC, eh? that's what i did.
[03:35] <kylem> git commit -a -e -F debian/..
[03:35] <BenC> damn, am I losing it or what
[03:35] <kylem> get some sleep, hehe
[03:35] <BenC> remind me not to review commits on 4 hours of sleep
[03:35] <zul> i hear beer helps
[03:36] <kylem> as long as it isn't a bad bear.
[03:36] <zul> i was thinking kieths
[03:36] <kylem> nm. inside joke.
[03:36] <zul> meh..
[03:36] <kylem> BenC, i thought the only removed firmware stuff was some legacy crap
[03:37] <BenC> kylem: in acx?   Anyone who can help me making a useful report out of it?
[02:49] <zul> CyberSnooP: if you have a digital camera, open a bug report in launchpad and attach it to the bug report.
[02:49] <CyberSnooP> well. It continues booting after the oops.
[02:50] <CyberSnooP> I'm trying to get the dmesg output transferred to somewhere I can make a bug report from
[02:52] <zul> dmesg > dmesg.txt and copy the dmesg.txt somewhere
[02:53] <CyberSnooP> done so. Are there any hints on searching for previous reported bugs?
[02:55] <CyberSnooP> well. there seem to be only 3 bugs (!!) in feisty. Searching by hand isn't that hard, or I just don't understand launchpad yet
[03:00] <pkl_> BenC: ping
[03:04] <CyberSnooP> ah.. well, if anyone cares: found the relevant bug (#76294), but that tells me to use a newer linux-restricted-modules, which I guess is pretty hard on a CD :(
[03:05] <pkl_> the atheros bug?
[03:07] <CyberSnooP> yep
[03:07] <CyberSnooP> Could it be affecting the installation also? (since the installer also hangs on hardware detection)
[03:08] <pkl_> kernel oopses often do random nasty things to the kernel, and so it could affect the installation yes.
[03:09] <CyberSnooP> Are new 'nightly' desktop CDs up to date? Is it worth burning one of them an trying installation again?
[03:12] <BenC> pkl_: yo
[03:13] <pkl_> BenC: hi, ready for the bug tutorial?
[03:13] <BenC> yeah
[03:13] <BenC> kylem: done coding HTML to help with bugs? :)
[03:14] <kylem> heh
[03:15] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: don't use /feisty/+bugs or similar
[03:16] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: that doesn't mean what you think it means :) kernel bugs in feisty are on /ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bugs
[03:16] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: hang on hardware detection> try booting with hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false; that was in the Herd 3 release notes
[03:17] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: sorry for the wrong bug report lookup, but I finally found the right set of bugs an found a exisiting bug report (atheros oops)
[03:17] <BenC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bugs
[03:17] <BenC> CyberSnooP: atheros oops should be fixed in latest lrm
[03:17] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: will try with special boot options, thanks for that hint :)
[03:17] <kylem> can we blacklist modules from the kernel cmdline?
[03:17] <BenC> Not in Herd3 though
[03:17] <BenC> kylem: I wish
[03:18] <kylem> shouldnt be hard to add...
[03:18] <CyberSnooP> BenC: Yep, but I'm trying herd 3, so that doesn't really help right now :)
[03:18] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Daily iso's
[03:18] <BenC> 185 bugs in 2.6.20
[03:19] <BenC> is there no sorting!?
[03:20] <BenC> "kernel oops while installing win 2k sp2"
[03:20] <BenC> heh, that looks funny
[03:23] <zul> BenC: which one is that?
[03:23] <pkl_> first things, how do you get a listing of all bugs in 2.6.20?
[03:26] <BenC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bugs
[03:27] <BenC> We need to start with bugs who's Status is !Unconfirmed
[03:27] <BenC> check if we have any patches we can apply immediately
[03:28] <BenC> 36885 is something we can fix with a dmi match entry
[03:30] <BenC> kylem, pkl_: either of you know how to add dmi match for nolapic forcing, or should I do it real quick?
[03:30] <CyberSnooP> BenC: can't find hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false in Release Notes (http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd3) but I wlil try it anyway. Is there anything usefull to report about the hw-detect hang (althought this probably isn't -kernel talk anymore)
[03:30] <kylem> BenC, i can do that.
[03:30] <kylem> i'll try to not write it in htm.
[03:30] <kylem> l
[03:30] <CyberSnooP> (note: I'm installer hang right now)
[03:31] <BenC> kylem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/36885 assigned to you then
[03:31] <BenC> kylem: hehe
[03:31] <pkl_> 36885 is confirmed...
[03:31] <fabbione> BenC: or add a debian/rules to strip html at build time :)
[03:31] <kylem> i've been doing some thinking, we need to sit down with colin and mdz at some point and think about how we're going to handle dapper.
[03:32] <fabbione> even better.. patch gcc :)
[03:32] <BenC> kylem: Good topic for next summit
[03:32] <BenC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/64308
[03:32] <kylem> i have a few patches that really should make it into stable, but it's kind of scary to think about, so i'd rather have two kernels, one which might actually propogate to -updates.
[03:32] <BenC> looks like another dmi match entry
[03:32] <BenC> kylem: We can't propagate to updates
[03:33] <kylem> BenC, ? why not?
[03:33] <zul> BenC: im just cleaning up linux-meta as well
[03:33] <BenC> not because I don't want to, but because it's a real ugly issue with -security and -updates syncing
[03:33] <kylem> ah.
[03:33] <kylem> lazy archive admins, gotcha. 8)
[03:33] <BenC> I was warned by adam that doing it would be the same as the ghost busters cross streams
[03:33] <kylem> BenC, mind going through bug targetting in a bit?
[03:33] <BenC> sure
[03:34] <kylem> BenC, hey, don't forget, they crossed the streams to defeat zul...
[03:34] <BenC> lol...so Chuck will die if we upload kernels to -updates
[03:34] <kylem> ;-P
[03:34] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: the release announcement had it (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-February/000243.html)
[03:34] <kylem> i do ever so much hate xen...
[03:34] <zul> meh..
[03:35] <zul> kylem: whats wrong now?
[03:35] <kylem> zul, nothing.
[03:35] <kylem> zul, just teasing.
[03:35] <BenC> pkl_: want to try your hand at a dmi match for disabling acpi-video on a particular bit of hw?
[03:36] <mjg59> BenC: What was the reason for that?
[03:36] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: okay, but that says "5 minutes" and the alternate cd. I'm having a >5 minutes hang on the desktop one
[03:36] <cjwatson> ah, probably not much you can do to avoid it short of grotty expert hacking
[03:36] <pkl_> BenC: I can try, but dmi match means nothing to me...
[03:36] <kylem> pkl_, it's basically like a pci id, but for the acpi bios, i guess.
[03:37] <kylem> pkl_, works more or less like a pci quirk
[03:37] <mjg59> kylem: Eh. Not quite - it's not anything to do with acpi
[03:37] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: It says it's loading 'aec62xx' and since I can't find a bugreport for that I was wondering if there is anything to report
[03:37] <kylem> mjg59, ah, i just associate dmi with acpi, what's the diff?
[03:37] <mjg59> pkl_: DMI is a spec for putting system information in the BIOS, including vendor and product strings
[03:37] <kylem> oh. DMI is for SMBIOS?
[03:37] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: you sure that's the desktop CD? I wouldn't expect that level of information to be visible on the desktop CD
[03:37] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: what does the screen look like? blue with a white box in the middle?
[03:38] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: nope :) It's ubiquity with the GTK progess bar and a line below
[03:38] <mjg59> pkl_: When all else fails, you can break drivers so they don't do something on machines with a given DMI ID
[03:38] <CyberSnooP> However, I picked the dutch translation
[03:38] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: oh, I see, OK. same boot option is worth a try then
[03:38] <BenC> pkl_: Basically you create a table of stuff to match a specific machine type based on it's dmidecode output
[03:38] <mjg59> In some cases, it's appropriate - in others, it's arguably better to figure out why the machine is breaking
[03:38] <CyberSnooP> okay, will do. Nothing to catch while it's hanging now?
[03:40] <BenC> pkl_: drivers/acpi/sleep/main.c: Look for acpisleep_dmi_table
[03:40] <pkl_> is this dmi match stuff already done in Ubuntu, and so there's a framework to look at to start from?
[03:40] <pkl_> ah, ok.
[03:40] <BenC> pkl_: Use that same logic to make the drivers/acpi/video.c driver not work for the machine in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/64308
[03:40] <BenC> There's an attachment with dmidecode output
[03:40] <pkl_> ok.
[03:41] <mjg59> BenC: Uh, in future we're going to be moving to depending on more functionality provided by that driver
[03:42] <mjg59> I'd prefer to spend a bit more time trying to debug it
[03:43] <heno> Am I right in guessing that bug 80892 is a kernel bug or is that a brltty bug? the log says 'kernel: [  138.396000]  usb 3-1: USB disconnect, address 3' right after brltty tries to mount a USB device
[03:44] <mjg59> BenC: Also, I can't actually see ACPI code being executed on modprobe, which leaves me a little concerned about why this is happening
[03:45] <mjg59> Oh, I see
[03:49] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: well, you could look at 'ps ax' from a terminal to see what it's doing
[03:49] <BenC> mjg59: Do you think it's fixable? I'm happy just disabling for feisty...it's a long standing bug
[03:49] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: could be unrelated to the pcmcia thing
[03:49] <BenC> for that machine I mean
[03:50] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: sorry, you just missed it by 1 minute.. rebooting with new kernel option now. Will find out if pcmcia was the problem in about 30 minutes I guess :)
[03:50] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: *nod*
[03:50] <mjg59> BenC: No idea. I've asked for more information.
[03:50] <mjg59> BenC: The bugs marked as duplicates are entirely unrelated
[03:50] <mjg59> I've de-duped them.
[03:51] <BenC> mjg59: It sounds an aweful lot like a BIOS bug to me, but if you think it might be fixable, then have at it
[03:51] <BenC> pkl_: dequeue that bug for now :)
[03:52] <pkl_> hmm, ok, in the middle of reading the code.
[03:52] <kylem> if there's only one thing this job is good for, it's touching parts of the kernel you would never, ever, otherwise touch.
[03:52] <BenC> pkl_: Feel free to study the dmi match stuff...it's useful for workarounds like this
[03:52] <kylem> like, why the fuck would i ever want to look at mmc... but yesterday...
[03:53] <pkl_> yeah
[03:53] <BenC> kylem: Yeah, like I gave up HTML coding a decade ago, but then yesterday... :)
[03:53] <kylem> BenC, ferfuckssake.
[03:53] <kylem> ;-)
[03:55] <mjg59> BenC: Oh, it's quite possible that it's a BIOS bug
[03:55] <mjg59> But that doesn't mean it's unfixable
[03:57] <BenC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/67810
[03:57] <BenC> bug 67810
[03:57] <BenC> can we get ubugtu in here?
[03:57] <BenC> who maintains that bot?
[03:57] <zul> seveas i think
[03:58] <BenBugtu> 67810: bad hard disk noise on shutdown
[03:58] <BenC> there, now I get warm fuzzies
[03:59] <BenC> Anyone have any comments on that bug? Seems like upstream is ignoring it
[03:59] <mjg59> I suspect just checking through the libata shutdown code would give a good idea about what's going on
[03:59] <BenC> and the comments on it have digressed a lot
[04:00] <mjg59> Yeah, we're not going to get anything useful out of the bug
[04:00] <kylem> hehe.
[04:00] <kylem> do we have the acpi ata driver in .20, hmm....
[04:00] <BenC> "Does OpenSuse have a net-install..."
[04:01] <kylem> BenC, oh yeah, i got that bug and was like "plonk"
[04:01] <BenC> mjg59: Is there a working libata-acpi.c for 2.6.20?
[04:01] <kylem> the blind, lead by the deaf, lead by the dumb.
[04:01] <BenC> is that from libata-dev git?
[04:01] <kylem> BenC, alan posted it the other day.
[04:01] <BenC> kylem: "I see, said the blind man to the deaf man"
[04:01] <kylem> might be a useful fallback.
[04:02] <kylem> ICUP
[04:02] <BenC> I'm waiting for the bug report that says "If I tap three times on the left side of my box, it works...can you code this workaround into the next kernel"
[04:03] <bubbasucks> BenC: can i bug you real quick? just wondering what your ID search came up with
[04:03] <BenC> "FIxed...included kick-box.ko, just use the tap=left-side, count=3 modparams"
[04:03] <BenC> bubbasucks: I found nothing useful
[04:03] <bubbasucks> so the pci ids were in megaraid_mm ?
[04:03] <BenC> In megaraid_mbox
[04:05] <bubbasucks> ok
[04:05] <mjg59> BenC: Yeah
[04:05] <bubbasucks> i'll try just including megaraid_mbox in initramfs
[04:05] <bubbasucks> and take megaraid out
[04:05] <mjg59> kylem: Nah, that's pata_acpi
[04:05] <kylem> ah.
[04:05] <mjg59> kylem: Which is different - it's actually a full pata driver
[04:05] <mjg59> It just uses acpi to get resource information
[04:06] <mjg59> So it's better than pata_generic
[04:06] <zul> BenC: if you click your heels three times does it work?
[04:06] <BenC> mjg59: Does it supercede libata-acpi?
[04:06] <mjg59> No
[04:06] <mjg59> Entirely different
[04:06] <mjg59> libata-acpi provides acpi glue for libata
[04:06] <BenC> Do we need libata-acpi in feisty?
[04:06] <mjg59> pata_acpi is a driver
[04:06] <mjg59> Yes
[04:10] <BenC> where's it at?
[04:10] <mjg59> lkml right now
[04:11] <mjg59> It's not terribly important
[04:11] <mjg59> Or libata-acpi? There's a branch of libata with it
[04:12] <BenC> Ok
[04:13] <BenC> Moving on to 74059: ata2 timeouts, fails to boot
[04:13] <pkl_> BTW as a total aside, how long do people spend reading lkml?  I've not had time to look at it once this week.
[04:14] <zul> i try to do it everyday
[04:14] <zul> ...but thats just me
[04:14] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: I guess it's not pcmcia, the kernel boot option didn't help and ubiquity is hanging on "Module 'aec62xx' for 'IDE chipset support' is being loaded...'
[04:14] <BenC> pkl_: I scan subjects...rarely do I read content unless it's interesting
[04:15] <pkl_> yes, I like skimming it.  Pity kernel-traffic disappeared, that was a good way to catch up.
[04:16] <CyberSnooP> pkl_: lwn is somewhat a replacement for kernel updates
[04:17] <pkl_> is the openSuse comments of any relevance?  I notice 'More' didn't respond regarding the driver loaded
[04:19] <pkl_> CyberSnooP: lwn is a sort of replacement, but is mainly complemented kernel-traffic.  Lwn concentrates on one or more selected kernel topics per week in depth, kernel-traffic just summarised all the traffic that week...
[04:19] <BenC> Ok, pulled in libata-dev:acpi
[04:20] <CyberSnooP> pkl_: that's true. Just stay subscribed to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>maybe they'll be back sometime :)
[04:20] <zul> BenC: #79331 our 2.6.20 supports rt73 now does it?
[04:21] <BenC> zul: I'm a little skeptical...we actually should have always supported it, but now I've switched back to legacy
[04:21] <CyberSnooP> someone here in the mood for determining why hw-detect stops on aec26xx? (I've got a hanging installation from herd 3 right now)
[04:22] <zul> BenC: so ill reject it
[04:22] <BenC> CyberSnooP: I can't even find that driver
[04:22] <CyberSnooP> oh, sorry.. aec62xx
[04:23] <CyberSnooP> at least, that's what is reported as the module name
[04:23] <BenC> That module I can find :)
[04:24] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Are you able to switch to the log console when it freezes, tried SysRq?
[04:24] <CyberSnooP> it doesn't freeze and desktop is still usuable
[04:24] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Maybe before it gets to that point you can delete that module from /lib/modules/...
[04:24] <CyberSnooP> there is just no progress
[04:24] <cjwatson> hang on, is it just the installer that hangs? or the entire system?
[04:25] <CyberSnooP> so: just installer is dead. I do see 4 "modprobe" processes on "ps ax" output in terminal window
[04:25] <cjwatson> modprobing what?
[04:25] <BenC> so modprobe is hanging
[04:26] <BenC> cjwatson: We need to donate some hardware to kernel.org or something
[04:26] <BenC> gitweb is so useless
[04:26] <CyberSnooP> hmm, i see even more modprobing going on. Lot's of modprobe -Q pci:.... and a modprobe -v aec62xx
[04:26] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Can you list all the modules that you see being modprobed in ps?
[04:27] <BenC> Maybe we could rsync all the git trees and provide a mirror
[04:27] <CyberSnooP> BenC, will try.. pity there is no irc-client on the live cd, copy & pasting would have been nice now
[04:27] <cjwatson> there's gaim, though it's not great
[04:27] <BenC> CyberSnooP: telnet :P
[04:27] <cjwatson> or you can just install one on the fly
[04:30] <CyberSnooP> http://bram.vleur.nl/tijdelijk/ps-ax.txt
[04:30] <CyberSnooP> scp does work :)
[04:30] <cjwatson> that D-state modprobe doesn't look happy
[04:32] <CyberSnooP> ah. D = Uninterruptible sleep  (usually IO). (didn't know that)
[04:32] <BenC> kylem, pkl_: On to 75626: spurious 8259 interrupt disabled IRQ
[04:33] <cjwatson> kylem: launchpad.net/bugs/#
[04:34] <kylem> cjwatson, yeah, but i'm used to typing bugs. (for bts.)
[04:35] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: any other info that might be of any use?
[04:36] <pkl_> isn't problems like that due to wrong DSDT tables?
[04:37] <jwest-> anyone using vmware here? vmware by default installs scsci drives right?
[04:38] <BenC> CyberSnooP: dmesg if you can
[04:38] <jwest-> had an issue and i just booted scsi.s kernel  and bam it worked
[04:39] <CyberSnooP> http://bram.vleur.nl/tijdelijk/dmesg.txt
[04:40] <CyberSnooP> which looks like a dmess to me
[04:40] <BenC> CyberSnooP: wow, that's an ugly mess
[04:40] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Do you have some whacked partition map or something on there?
[04:41] <CyberSnooP> nope.. hda1 hda2 both ntfs, hda5 ext3 for root, hda 6 for swap
[04:42] <CyberSnooP> fdisk -l /dev/hda output: http://bram.vleur.nl/tijdelijk/fdisk-l.txt
[04:42] <BenC> The system keeps saying it's trying to read beyond the end of the device
[04:43] <CyberSnooP> well, I do see the "does not end on cylinder boundary" warning for the first time (although they may have been here for quite some time)
[04:44] <mjg59> BenC: We still have no HPA support for libata, BTW
[04:44] <mjg59> That's pretty critical
[04:44] <BenC> CyberSnooP: your partition map doesn't match what the kernel sees
[04:44] <BenC> mjg59: Can you point me to where that is?
[04:45] <CyberSnooP> well, I didn't repartition with the installer. I'm reinstalling from an (old) edgy installation on the same harddisk
[04:45] <mjg59> BenC: Unimplemented
[04:45] <CyberSnooP> (i didn't repartition at all in the mean time)
[04:45] <BenC> CyberSnooP: weird...so this is a regression?
[04:46] <mjg59> BenC: See idedisk_check_hpa in drivers/ide/ide-disk.c
[04:46] <CyberSnooP> I would guess so. At least dapper installed cleanly on the same laptop, although I'm not really sure if it was exactly the same partitioning
[04:46] <BenC> mjg59: Isn't this why you were suggesting we didn't switch to pata yet? :)
[04:46] <mjg59> BenC: Probably
[04:47] <BenC> I didn't actually switch that many
[04:47] <mjg59> CyberSnooP: Oh, uh. You might actually be hitting this precise issue.
[04:47] <CyberSnooP> (i did dist-upgrade from dapper to edgy, but since feisty wasn't booting I decided to go for the re-install.. there you have the woll story)
[04:47] <BenC> mjg59: He can't be, he's still using an ide driver
[04:47] <mjg59> Oh, right
[04:47] <mjg59> Yeah, fair enough
[04:48] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Where does feisty stop booting?
[04:48] <CyberSnooP> after dist-upgrade
[04:48] <CyberSnooP> It's a different problem I guess, since it didn't boot X
[04:49] <CyberSnooP> I messed a lot with drivers, mesa and stuff during edgy
[04:49] <BenC> so it booted, just didn't start X?
[04:50] <BenC> cjwatson: Is there a way to drop to shell before livecd gets to starting up too much?
[04:50] <CyberSnooP> yeah, sorry about the confusion. It did boot. although I'm not sure which kernel I last used
[04:50] <CyberSnooP> (might have been 2.6.19)
[04:53] <BenC> pkl_: Want to investigate #76489?
[04:53] <BenC> Maybe there's some update to the r8169 driver...I'm leaning toward thinking it's an locking issue triggered because we have SMP by default
[04:53] <pkl_> just let me have a loot at it...
[04:54] <cjwatson> BenC: break=top? (or premount, or casper-bottom, or ...)
[04:54] <BenC> maybe there's an updated driver somewhere
[04:54] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Can you try booting with cjwatson's suggested cmdline and delete the aec62xx driver, then let the boot continue?
[04:54] <BenC> see if that gets you through this, then we can investigate the problem afterwards
[04:55] <CyberSnooP> suggested: break=top ?
[04:55] <BenC> yeah, try that one
[04:55] <BenC> loading aec62xx on my box doesn't produce a hang or errors
[04:57] <CyberSnooP> well, break=top throuws me in a busybox with "(initramfs)" prompt
[04:58] <maks_> how surprising :)
[04:58] <CyberSnooP> but I'm not quite sure where the aec26xx module should be right now
[04:58] <CyberSnooP> not in /lib/modules/2.6.20-6-generic
[04:59] <pkl_> BenC: I'll have a look at it.  What was the resolution re: bug no. 75626 (spurious 8259....)?
[05:00] <CyberSnooP> oh  sorry, it is there
[05:00] <bubbasucks> BenC: is the megaraid_mbox.c file online or available because i looked in 2.6.17 megaraid_mbox.c here (http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/drivers/scsi/megaraid/megaraid_mbox.c) and didnt see 101e 1960 1028 0511
[05:00] <CyberSnooP> I found /lib/modules/2.6.20-6-generic/kernel/drivers/ide/pci/aec62xx.ko Just remove that file and it shouldn't complain further on?
[05:01] <mjg59> What's loading that file?
[05:01] <mjg59> BenC: I'll open a bug on the HPA issue
[05:03] <BenC> CyberSnooP: that's what I'm hoping :)
[05:04] <BenC> bubbasucks: gitweb on kernel.org, ubuntu-2.6 tree
[05:04] <BenC> if you can get it to answer
[05:04] <CyberSnooP> We'll find out.. (in 30 minutes :( )
[05:07] <cjwatson> BenC: driver-backports ping?
[05:08] <BenC> cjwatson: working on it while I'm doing bugs :)
[05:10] <CyberSnooP> side-note: the new partitioner has gone crazy on me now
[05:10] <BenC> There's something whacked about your partition map
[05:10] <CyberSnooP> yeah, but this is an UI error i think
[05:10] <BenC> Ah, ok, blame cjwatson then :)
[05:11] <CyberSnooP> both the OK and Cancel buttons in the  "Edit partition" dialog stopped responding
[05:11] <CyberSnooP> I'm getting to fast at using it after 6 install attempts
[05:11] <BenC> Give it a second, sometimes there's lag after clicking it
[05:11] <CyberSnooP> I gave it 90 seconds now
[05:13] <CyberSnooP> killed all ubiquity, starting over now.. I'll try to be nice to the buttons
[05:13] <bubbasucks> BenC: k
[05:17] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: ubiquity --debug and file a bug with /var/log/installer/debug, /var/log/syslog, and /var/log/partman attached please; use a password you don't care about in debug mode
[05:17] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: will do some other time I guess. It seems like some kind of race when I quickly hit the format checkbox and open the edit dialog
[05:18] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: besides this error the new partitioner is very nice though! Pretty usuable, quick, and to the point.
[05:22] <cjwatson> aha, I can fix that
[05:22] <cjwatson> insufficient locking
[05:25] <cjwatson> CyberSnooP: off-topic for this channel, but thanks, fixed for the next release
[05:26] <CyberSnooP> cjwatson: hah... that's what I call "getting things done" :) While we're in this words-of-praise moment: mjg59: nice blog-article on suspend/resume with acpi
[05:30] <\sh> guys, what about HP P800 SmartArray SAS/SATA controller and 64bit LBA support in our kernel? I just need some practical experience with it, if it's working or not...a nice to have is a statement "yes, it works, even with a MSA 60 attached to it" or "yes/no, support is a bit flaky" or "no, smartarray driver doesn't support 64bit lba, means partitions greater 2TB" ;-)
[05:31] <BenC> \sh: How about "I don't know?" :)
[05:32] <kylem> mjg59, wow. we don't have HPA support yet? fucking hell.
[05:32] <pkl_> what is _HPA_ support?
[05:33] <\sh> BenC: then I say "hmmm..who could know" or "who has such a hardware, and runs it" or "ok, I'll google" ;)
[05:33] <mjg59> Host Protected Area
[05:33] <mjg59> Drives can flag a portion of themselves as unusable
[05:33] <kylem> "utter retarded"
[05:33] <mjg59> And then optionally password that
[05:33] <mjg59> Unless you explicitly request that they disable that, the disk just appears smaller to the OS
[05:33] <mjg59> Usually used for hiding recovery areas at the end of the disk
[05:34] <pkl_> or port :-)
[05:34] <mjg59> The problem is that at some point in 2.2, somebody added HPA support to Linux
[05:34] <pkl_> port -> porn... joke
[05:34] <mjg59> And decided that the sensible default would be to disable it
[05:34] <mjg59> So people install Linux into the HPA-covered area without ever noticing
[05:34] <mjg59> We can now never change that default
[05:34] <mjg59> Except libata doesn't support disabling the HPA
[05:35] <mjg59> Hilarity ensues
[05:35] <kylem> fsvo hilarity...
[05:35] <pkl_> okay, that's how manufacturers get away with supplying machines without Windows reinstall disks....
[05:35] <kylem> right.
[05:35] <mjg59> Yeah, it's basically impossible to fuck with it in Windows or DOS
[05:36] <pkl_> But as Ubuntu does have HPA support, it will happily over-write it on the first instal.
[05:36] <kylem> hmm. kernel could catch the access past the end of device, disable HPA, and restart the xaction...
[05:37] <kylem> pkl_, it's only a problem going from edgy->feisty with pata, iirc.
[05:37] <kylem> since libata for sata disks wouldn't ever have supported it.
[05:37] <mjg59> Right
[05:37] <mjg59> Though it would actually be interesting to test
[05:37] <mjg59> The alternative is that the lack of HPA support somehow magically results in the entire disk being available
[05:37] <kylem> but drivers/ide did, so when you boot a pata-*.ko system with it, you die horribly.
[05:38] <mjg59> Though I'm pretty sure that's not the case
[05:38] <CyberSnooP> aec62xx is still being loaded in hw-detect :'(
[05:38] <kylem> mjg59, how much work is it to disable? restarting the bio shouldn't be too too hard, i would think.
[05:39] <mjg59> kylem: Eh, almost none.
[05:40] <CyberSnooP> okay, I'm being evil now in the hope to progress somewhat. I've killed the "log-output -t hw-detect modprobe -v aec62xx" process, this however results in alim15x3 being modprobed and ALSO hanging
[05:41] <CyberSnooP> so this seems to be a more general IDE-driver thing than specifically the aec62xx
[05:41] <CyberSnooP> (hanging means: process state = D for the modprobe process)
[05:43] <pkl_> did you check the modprobe -v aec62xx process did die?  It if was in an un-interruptible sleep, then killing it is impossible.
[05:43] <CyberSnooP> pkl_: it didn't die. But the installer doesn't seem to care about that process
[05:44] <pkl_> yeah, but the other modules being modprobed might...
[05:45] <CyberSnooP> it goes on for every ide driver now. I've got 7 state=D modprobes right now
[05:47] <bubbasucks> BenC: its not in there
[05:47] <bubbasucks> http://bugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=395174
[05:47] <bubbasucks> there is a patch to add CERC ATA100 raid i believe
[05:47] <bubbasucks> but it's not listed in your megaraid_mbox.c
[05:54] <cjwatson> BenC,mjg59: what happened to the iSight firmware loader bits from mjg59's patch? The rest of it (uvcvideo driver update) seems to have been applied
[05:54] <BenC> I just took the 0004-isight patch as-is...don't know about anything on top of it
[05:55] <BenC> bubbasucks: Ok, applied that patch, so it will be in the next kernel upload
[05:55] <cjwatson> the Apple Remote patch seems to be still missing
[05:56] <cjwatson> mjg59: any idea of the iSight status? the firmware extractor was really a separate binary so I guess it shouldn't be in the kernel anyway
[05:59] <cjwatson> ah, Apple Remote went into ubuntu/mactel/
[06:00] <bubbasucks> BenC: so i'll need to downgrade my firmware to 6.61
[06:00] <bubbasucks> hope that doesn't blow away my raid config
[06:01] <mjg59> cjwatson: Uh. Which firmware loader bits?
[06:01] <mjg59> I moved the firmware-loading in kernel
[06:02] <cjwatson> mjg59: so you did; I must have an earlier version of the patch
[06:02] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[06:03] <mjg59> It still needs the extractor, yeah
[06:03] <mjg59> I *really should* have an Apple next week
[06:03] <mjg59> It's taking an age to get through Intel
[06:06] <BenC> Anyone know if there's a project for rtl818x and rtl8187 that is newer than 1.5 years?
[06:06] <kylem> BenC, there isn't, afaik.
[06:07] <kylem> BenC, i think it's a dead-end chipset (no new hw)
[06:07] <BenC> not dead to our users :/
[06:07] <bubbasucks> BenC: it appears that CERC raid w/ FW>6.61 is broken in megaraid_mbox, but rolling back to 6.61 breaks disks >128GB
[06:08] <BenC> I'd ask for a user to donate one of them so I can fix the crash, but then we probably wouldn't have any more users with the card :)
[06:08] <BenC> bubbasucks: Do you have a disk > 128GB in there?
[06:08] <bubbasucks> yep
[06:08] <BenC> The patch doesn't say that > 6.61 is broken, just that if you have problems, try downgrading fw
[06:08] <bubbasucks> http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_thread/thread/54a1ca21b839ebf1/4a0cd669217f3c7d?lnk=st&rnum=1#4a0cd669217f3c7d
[06:09] <bubbasucks> http://linuxwarez.us/url/RwU4l9
[06:09] <bubbasucks> ^ short version
[06:09] <BenC> Still seems like fw > 6.61 isn't a sure fire problem, just that it might be
[06:10] <BenC> hopefully it isn't for you :)
[06:11] <bubbasucks> i'll give it a try
[06:12] <bubbasucks> when will the next kernel be out?
[06:18] <bubbasucks> Both Dell and LSI Logic have indicated that they no longer support these
[06:18] <bubbasucks> models in the 2.6 kernel. As a result, these adapters are not supported
[06:18] <bubbasucks> in Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4.
[06:18] <bubbasucks> lame
[06:18] <bubbasucks> time to go back to software raid...
[06:22] <BenC> kylem: Can you check the work queue fixes in rtl_ieee80211 to see if they may be the cause of the regression in rtl818x (bug 78255)?
[06:23] <kylem> sure.
[06:24] <CyberSnooP> Just to let you know: Killing the "log-output modprobe"-processes was sufficient to make it to the end of the installer. Rebooting the installed feisty was hell (>300s) but after an update to today (with new restricted modules) it works perfectly
[06:26] <BenC> CyberSnooP: Great, thanks
[06:32] <pkl_> Regarding bug #75626 (Spurious 8259...) there's a bug on the kernel.org bugzilla with a huge number of similar problems with many more HP Pavilion laptops (bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7562).
[06:33] <kylem> brb. lunch.
[06:37] <BenC> pkl_: You should be able to link the bug report on launchpad to that kernel.org bugzilla report
[06:37] <BenC> pkl_: Click on Also affects: "Upstream..."
[06:37] <pkl_> ok.
[06:37] <BenC> and point it towards "linux" as the target and add the URL you gave
[06:38] <BenC> kylem, pkl_: Updated ipw3945 to v1.2.0...might consider it for dapper and edgy
[06:41] <BenC> requires new microcode as well
[06:51] <mjg59> BenC: Any chance you can turn on CONFIG_PM_TRACE?
[06:51] <mjg59> Contrary to what the docs say, the default is no longer to screw up the clock
[06:52] <mjg59> And it's very handy for tracking down suspend/resume problems
[06:56] <BenC> Sure
[06:58] <mjg59> Sweet
[06:58] <mjg59> Thanks
[06:58] <BenC> I don't see that option
[06:58] <mjg59> Might need PM_DEBUG enabled
[06:58] <mjg59> Ah, yes
[06:58] <BenC> ah, right
[07:13] <BenC> mjg59: Want this enabled too?
[07:13] <BenC>     Keep console(s) enabled during suspend/resume (DANGEROUS) (DISABLE_CONSOLE_SUSPEND) [N/y/?]  (NEW)
[07:26] <mjg59> BenC: Leave that at N, I think
[07:28] <pwnguin> if today's bug day, ive got a pet bug in launchpad; it's got a patch attached and everything, just needs someone to look at it
[07:29] <pwnguin> bug #77026
[07:29] <mjg59> BenC: Uh, yeah. Weren't you supposed to be re-applying that?
[07:37] <BenC> Thought I had that one in there
[07:37] <pwnguin> well, you "fixed" it
[07:38] <pwnguin> but it didnt work
[07:39] <BenC> pwnguin: done
[07:40] <pwnguin> huzzah
[07:40] <pwnguin> i'll definately test it when it gets pushed out and report back :)
[07:47] <BenC> It's pushed to git, but if you're waiting for it to be uploaded, it will probably be available tomorrow some time
[07:47] <pwnguin> hmm
[07:47] <pwnguin> im supposed to be doing some kernel development for my master's project
[07:47] <pwnguin> although i doubt ill have git mastered in before it hits the repo
[07:51] <BenC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide :)
[07:51] <pwnguin> noted, though i have a ton of bioinformatics lab to do today =/
[07:53] <BenC> Why are people still filing bugs on 2.6.19 :/
[07:54] <pwnguin> as in they don't know better, or as in it affects .19 only?
[07:56] <zul> BenC: muppets
[07:59] <pwnguin> ajmitch: but did you file bugs against it?
[07:59] <ajmitch> nah, I just couldn't be bothered rebooting
[07:59] <pwnguin> heh
[08:00] <pwnguin> my video card fan is too loud for that
[08:01] <BenC> pwnguin: As in .19 isn't even in ubuntu anymore
[08:01] <zul> heh...
[08:01] <zul> not for main at least
[08:03] <pwnguin> BenC: well, i meant like, they filed against .19 when they were running .20
[08:03] <pwnguin> for "dont know better"
[08:03] <BenC> no, they just haven't upgraded in 2 months :)
[08:04] <pwnguin> well, those are easy ones to close
[08:04] <pwnguin> "we think its fixed in .20. upgrade and retest"
[08:04] <pwnguin> kthnxbye
[08:08] <BenC> kylem: ping 33950
[08:10] <cberl1> Is there any reason a kernel panic wouldn't leave some kind of log on the system when it appears?  Something strange going on with one of my servers.
[08:10] <BenC> cberl1: Yeah, because it crashes so hard that disk write is either impossible, or dangerous
[08:11] <pwnguin> cberl1: hope you have a serial cable / port
[08:11] <cberl1> Okay, and possible solutions?
[08:11] <BenC> cberl1: That sort of crash needs a screen to see and you can take a digital photo for a bug report
[08:12] <cberl1> Ah, now there's the problem:  recreating the issue while having access to the console.  Can I reroute the console to an SSH session?
[08:12] <BenC> No, else the system would be alive enough to use a shell too :)
[08:13] <BenC> if you can redirect console to a serial (via the BIOS for example), then that would probably be best
[08:13] <BenC> leave a screen'd minicom on it with capture enabled
[08:13] <BenC> I do that frequently for my ultrasparc
[08:13] <cberl1> Okay, minicom on another machine, I assume?
[08:14] <pkl_> the machine with the other end of the serial cable...
[08:15] <cberl1> Okay.  I'll have to dig up such a beast.  Don't have any other PCs available for that at the moment.  Might be able to reclaim one of the "thin clients" temporarily.
[08:15] <cberl1> xconsole wouldn't work, would it?
[08:16] <johanbr> I also think there are patches to do the serial console thing over USB or Ethernet instead. Does the Ubuntu kernel contain any of those patches?
[08:20] <cberl1> xconsole looks like it might do the job for now - just keeping it open on my screen now, watching what's going on.  Quite a bit of traffic when you're the hub for 30 clients, eh?  :)
[08:54] <kylem> BenC, sorry, my irc was gone completely haywire.
[08:55] <BenC> kylem: I was going to insert an HTML coding joke here, but I think you've had enough :)
[08:55] <kylem> heh.
[08:55] <kylem> BenC, hmm. i think i posted a patch for that a while back, will update. need to repost the smapi stuff eventuall...


[01:06] <bluesabre> micahg, I don't know what dh7 means
[01:08] <micahg> bluesabre: short form dh
[01:11] <bluesabre> ah, does it work to use a later version of debhelper (not really sure how to help at this point)
[01:11] <micahg> not that I know of (dh7 is the form of debian/rules that you're using)
[01:12] <micahg> so, I can't get it to build without overriding dh_auto_configure, but if I do that, I get a build with no python files installed
[01:13] <bluesabre> I think the quickly packaging uses version 8
[01:13] <micahg> shouldn't matter, the debhelper used is the version in raring which is 9.x
[01:20] <ochosi> hey
[01:23] <bluesabre> hey micahg, I think liviu may have gotten it.  https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable/+packages
[01:23] <ochosi> Len-nb: display hotplugging is implemented in xfce4-settings in git, it currently brings up the minimal dialog (optionally) if you add a second screen (caveat: doesn't work with all analog setups, digital should be fine in general)
[01:25] <ochosi> micahg: not sure that got lost in your backlog or maybe you also don't/didn't have time for it, but i wanted to bring up the gmusicbrowser release again
[01:25] <micahg> bluesabre: for precise, not quantal (same issue I'm having in raring)
[01:26] <micahg> ochosi: yeah, I have it on my list, will try to get it in for beta 1
[01:27] <micahg> bluesabre: also, we want to ship py files, not pyc files
[01:27] <ochosi> micahg: thanks a lot! i know it was/is onshort notice, but the release was just a short while ago..
[01:27] <ochosi> bluesabre: i'm not really up to speed on that, but have you talked to anyone yet about getting parole 0.5 into R?
[01:27] <micahg> bluesabre: right, there's no dh_python2 in precise
[01:28] <micahg> ochosi: already in
[01:28] <ochosi> oh, awesome!
[01:28] <ochosi> thanks again :)
[01:29] <bluesabre> micahg, so the packaging he used in precise (just tested and it works in precise) wouldn't work in later releases?
[01:32] <micahg> bluesabre: oh, hrm, I'm thinking of lucid
[01:33] <micahg> he's not using dh_python2 at all
[01:33] <bluesabre> but it does seem to work
[01:43] <ochosi> time to sleep, night!
[01:43] <bluesabre> seeya ochosi
[03:25] <bluesabre> micahg, did catfish make it?
[03:38] <micahg> bluesabre: not yet
[03:41] <micahg> bluesabre: I'll try again this weekend maybe
[03:42] <bluesabre> micahg, thanks!
[03:42] <micahg> it would probably help if I got a local build workinging, I'll read through the files and see if I missed anyth
[03:48] <bluesabre> cool, if you need anything from me, let me know
[03:50] <micahg> thanks
[04:41] <skellat> knome pleia2 micahg Rick Spencer has proposals up for editing on the Wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCadence
[04:42] <micahg> skellat: yeah, I'll be looking at that next week
[04:42] <skellat> knome pleia2 micahg The relevant e-mail is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036872.html
[04:43] <skellat> micahg: It looks like the deadline Mr. Spencer has put into place for putting something to Tech Board is March 18th.  I'll need to know from knome about when he wants the hangout/virtual meeting/conference call arranged for now.
[04:43] <micahg> next tech board meeting is then
[04:45] <skellat> Hmm
[04:45] <pleia2> yeah, I find the "every 6 months but only support for 7-8 months proposal very interesting for my personal uses ;)
[04:45] <skellat> I get ubuntu-devel in digest mode so I'm reacting on the fly as I only got the digest in the past couple minutes
[04:45] <pleia2> but I hate change, so there is that
[04:45] <micahg> yes, that's what I'm shooting for + maybe a rolling release tacked on
[04:46] <pleia2> I am sympathetic to the argument that freeze time is loss productivity for folks who aren't doing fixes, so having something roll on through that is compelling
[04:47] <pleia2> (or even open the next +1 as soon as +1 freezes)
[04:47] <pleia2> which I guess is just rolling with different words :)
[04:47] <skellat> In terms of psychological stresses in the community, I favor letting 13.04 finish but then not have a 13.10 while we take the time to retool to have a firm foundation to make all this work before we start gearing up for 14.04
[04:47] <micahg> I think the win/win here is 6 mo cadence with ~7 mo support that's created from the stable part of the rolling release at ~month 4.5 of the cycle
[04:48] <skellat> micahg: Isn't that essential Fedora-style support length?
[04:48] <micahg> ni idea
[04:49] <Unit193> I'm good with 6 month releases, but shorter support time.  Generally those people upgrade, the rest stick at an LTS.
[04:49] <pleia2> skellat: welcome by the way, you've been here for several days and I haven't said so, always nice to have new people come and join the conversation :)
[04:49] <pleia2> Unit193: right
[04:49] <Unit193> pleia2: left.
[04:52] <skellat> Actually, the 6 month cadence with 7 month support would put us at a shorter window than Fedora.  Apparently Fedora X goes End of Life at Fedora X+2.  See: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Life_Cycle#End_of_Life_.28EOL.29
[04:52] <pleia2> fedora doesn't have an LTS though, so I think they need an option for people who use it a bit longer (I don't know who these people are)
[04:53] <micahg> right, so 13 mo would match fedora, I don't think we can win with that though
[04:53] <micahg> + pleia2's point
[04:53] <micahg> pleia2: there's CentOS for LTS type stuff though
[04:53] <pleia2> fedora always structured me as development for red hat
[04:53] <pleia2> yeah
[04:54] <skellat> RHEL: You paid for it.  CentOS: You didn't pay for it.  Fedora: You're either a developer or you want a wild ride.
[04:54] <micahg> one of the criteria here is quality so that upgrades from release -> release are basically seemless
[04:54] <micahg> *seamless
[04:54] <Unit193> But if you like Ubuntu, but just don't like release upgrades...
[04:54] <pleia2> apparently english is not my strong suit tonight, you know what I mean
[04:54] <micahg> Unit193: LTS FTW :)
[04:54] <Unit193> micahg: That was a reply to the CentOS comment.
[04:55] <skellat> Liking Ubuntu but not liking release upgrades stays too much within a Microsoft-created paradigm.  Yes, there are probably still tons and tons of machines out there running XP.  How do you entice those folks to upgrade?  Do they have the hardware *able* to survive/support an upgrade?
[04:56] <micahg> LTS is for that, 5 yr support
[04:56] <skellat> XP is well past that now, though.
[04:56] <micahg> XP ends its life support in April
[04:56] <pleia2> XP was an anomaly
[04:57] <pleia2> MS will never support something for that along again
[04:57] <skellat> Somehow it survived 11 years
[04:57] <micahg> yeah, XP was only supported that long due to its replacement products not being good
[04:57] <micahg> and the first "upgrade" took 6 years to get out the door
[04:59] <skellat> micahg: Could you give us a bumper-sticker or three sized explainer on the derived distro notion?
[04:59] <micahg> I'd rather avoid it :)
[05:00] <skellat> Okay
[05:00]  * pleia2 heads off to dinner
[05:00]  * skellat recognizes it is now really, really early Friday morning in northeast Ohio
[05:02] <skellat> Well, if we can come up with a date and time for our Xubuntu Huddle I will get it arranged.  My e-mail address is up to date on Launchpad.
[05:03] <micahg> skellat: the basic idea is to use the LTS as a base and then override the packages that a flavor would want to backport for stuff that can't be backported
[05:04] <skellat> Yep
[05:04] <skellat> I've got a cat invading and I apparently need to get some sleep
[05:05] <skellat> So I bid you good night micahg as I head off to chase down Shadow
[05:05]  * skellat gets ready for bedtime
[11:35] <ochosi> meh, kubuntu/kde - canonical flamewar is exhausting...
[11:36] <Unit193> At least sabdfl got in on it. ;)
[11:36] <ochosi> doesn't make it much less exhausting though for me
[11:37] <Unit193> (Kidding.)
[11:38] <ochosi> k :)
[17:24] <micahg> knome: did you want me to add xfce4-* to the supported seed?
[19:08] <knome> micahg, yes, if you think that's doable for our team
[19:08] <micahg> there aren't too many, it just means that we're open to bugs and obligating ourselves to fix issues
[19:11] <knome> i think that sounds good, but since i'm not able to fix bugs, i need your evaluation if it's doable/needed
[19:24] <bluesabre_1> knome secretly advises me and ochosi on how to fix the bugs in our projects
[19:25] <bluesabre_1> don't let him fool you micahg
[19:26] <knome> hah.
[19:42] <LaserJock> hi all. I installed Xubuntu 12.10 this week after a year or two of not touching *buntu and I wanted to say it really rocks. You've done a fantastic job.
[19:43] <pleia2> thanks LaserJock <3
[19:47] <LaserJock> so I read on the blog that for 13.04 you're going to 1GB, is there more going on there than GIMP and Gnumeric?
[19:48] <pleia2> some languages
[19:48] <pleia2> part of the change is we didn't want to make micahg spend all his nights and weekends scrambling for space anymore, so leaving several (even hundred) megs free helps a lot
[19:49] <LaserJock> sure
[19:49] <micahg> LaserJock: anything you think we're missing?
[19:49] <LaserJock> not particularly, I like having Gnumeric on there
[19:49] <LaserJock> I just wondered as I know how cramped things can get
[19:49] <LaserJock> but since Xubuntu seems lighter I wondered why 1GB in particular
[19:50] <LaserJock> but I know languages are always a big part of the space, are you going to ship more than Ubuntu?
[19:50] <micahg> well, I think we decided 10 most popular since we have the space now
[19:50] <micahg> the goal is to keep the image between 800 and 900 MB
[19:51] <micahg> we're under 800MB ATM
[19:51] <LaserJock> that seems nice. 700 is just not enough, but nobody wants to have to download 4GB isos :-)
[19:51] <micahg> I offered to make a kitchen sink type DVD version with more stuff, but there didn't seem to be enough interest in testing
[19:52] <LaserJock> most people probably just download particular set of "goodies" after install anyway
[19:52] <micahg> 700 is only problematic due to the bloated core that we inherit
[19:53] <LaserJock> yeah, I just wondered since Ubuntu still fits why you would go more
[19:53] <micahg> nah, Ubuntu is at 800MB right now
[19:53] <LaserJock> ah, I haven't looked for a while
[19:55] <LaserJock> so did FeatureFreeze happen? (I'm looking at the release schedule)
[19:55] <LaserJock> I've been watching the "big debate" on Planet Ubuntu but haven't tracked ubuntu-devel
[19:55] <Noskcaj> scottbomb, how did you manager to get through the installer without any bugs?
[19:56] <Noskcaj> *manage
[19:57] <bluesabre_1> for me, the only guaranteed way to make it through an ubuntu install is to not install drivers or codecs at install-time
[19:57] <bluesabre_1> but I'll be testing installation this weekend on my laptop, hoping for the best
[19:57] <bluesabre_1> :)
[19:58] <Noskcaj> bluesabre_1, that may be because that is one of the 4 bugs i can find in the installer ATM
[19:59] <Noskcaj> to whoever has just added the progress bar in the xubuntu installer, thanks. could you put a marker in as to where the installation starts?
[20:00] <micahg> bluesabre_1: if that's true, please file bugs with appropriate logs so the issues can get fixed
[20:02] <bluesabre_1> sure thing
[20:05] <Noskcaj> also to whoever added that bar, you didn't quite get it right
[20:05] <knome> Noskcaj, i don't think it's anybody from the xubuntu team. it's most probably the ubiquity maintainers that did it
[20:06] <Noskcaj> knome, ok, it only appeared today, i was wondering if it's ubiquity wide. i will check soon
[20:07] <xnox> knome: Noskcaj: yes the bar is new.
[20:07] <xnox> it has "progress dots" to indicate how many pages/steps there are.
[20:08] <xnox> it looks good in ubuntu default theme (orange on black) but some other themes may want to increase contrast between background and progressbars.
[20:08] <xnox> I can help with gtk+3 css vars that need adjustment.
[20:08] <knome> ochosi, ^
[20:09] <Noskcaj> xnox, the issue is it goes 1, 2,4,6,7 then ignores the second half of the installer
[20:10] <xnox> Noskcaj: yeah, I spotted that as well. Needs fixing. I should file a bug.
[20:11] <Noskcaj> yes, tell me if you do and i will add it to my report on the iso tracker
[20:12] <xnox> bug 1152746
[20:13] <Noskcaj> xnox, does that bug include the skipping as well?
[20:13] <xnox> Noskcaj: skipping is normal.
[20:14] <xnox> Noskcaj: e.g. there is wifi step and if there is no wifi/internet already connected we just gain a dot "for free"
[20:14] <xnox> (that's the 3rd one)
[20:14] <xnox> not sure where the 5th one went though. =)
[20:14] <Noskcaj> ok, and the 5th?
[21:45] <knome> micahg, do we want to freeze more than what's freezed in FF?
[21:52] <bluesabre_1> glad that message is for micahg, because that just sounds confusing
[21:52] <knome> hah
[21:52] <knome> we can decide to freeze xfce* for beta1
[21:52] <knome> for example
[21:52] <knome> or catfish, if we don't want bluesabre_1 poking in!
[21:53] <micahg> knome: I was hoping to upload catfish and gmusicbrowser still
[21:53] <micahg> and gimp
[21:53] <bluesabre_1> +3
[21:53] <bluesabre_1> catfish + gmb would be awesome
[21:54] <knome> micahg, sure. if we dont', i'll reply to stgraber we're opting in for beta 1
[21:54] <micahg> gmb and gimp I know I can do :)
[21:54] <micahg> well, gimp I know I can do, gmb if I get a freeze exception
[21:57] <bluesabre_1> btw, liviu got quantal and raring catfish packages into the ppa, https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable
[21:58] <bluesabre_1> heading out now, bbl
[21:58] <bluesabre_1> have fun guys!
[21:58] <knome> bluesabre_1, hf
[21:59]  * micahg wonders what python-distutils-extra is used for
[22:02] <micahg> I think I see the problem with catfish, it's installing pyc files instead of py files which is why dh_python2 chokes
[22:02]  * micahg files upstream bug
[22:06]  * micahg will have to talk to some python people over the weekend
[22:39] <ochosi> xnox: ubiquity, css, gtk3, vars -> progress dots?
[22:50] <xnox> ochosi: yes.
[22:50] <xnox> ochosi: one sec.
[22:50] <xnox> ochosi: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DU8LtP4EIjo/UTEADqZhCSI/AAAAAAAAAyI/WKWh5NbTC48/s754/049.png
[22:50] <xnox> this is new ubiquity.
[22:51] <ochosi> oh i see
[22:51] <xnox> the "dots" are just very small progress-bars.
[22:51] <ochosi> so it's about the bottom bar
[22:51] <ochosi> yup, i get it
[22:51] <ochosi> are those pixmaps or how are the dots drawn?
[22:51] <xnox> it's a GtkProgressBar of size 10x10px.
[22:51] <ochosi> ah :)
[22:51] <xnox> so in ubiquity they look nice - orange on darkbg color.
[22:51] <xnox> but in xubuntu/lubuntu they will be light on light color.
[22:52] <ochosi> it should be blue on grey
[22:52] <ochosi> that's fine imo
[22:52] <ochosi> i assume we have no screener of that yet, right?
[22:52] <xnox> well sure, as long as people can see which ones are full & which once are hollow.
[22:52] <xnox> ochosi: i would love to get derivates to add screenshots to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/SlideDecks
[22:53] <ochosi> mhm
[22:53] <xnox> ochosi: e.g. lubuntu/xubuntu/kubuntu slide decks =)
[22:53] <xnox> such that when I work on the installer I can have a sence how it will look like.
[22:53] <ochosi> do those progress-dots have a widget-name or are they generic progressbars
[22:54] <ochosi> i.e. can i theme them independently or would i have to change the progressbars in all of ubiquity?
[22:56] <ochosi> another question: this version of ubiquity is in the daily images already? then i'll simply download and test it, then i can also upload some screenshots for you
[22:56] <xnox> ochosi: so its progressbars inside GtkEventBox called "progress_eventbox"
[22:56] <xnox> ochosi: yeap, it's in the dailies.
[22:56] <xnox> ochosi: I guess I should apply a better style name to them.....
[22:57]  * xnox will ponder about it.
[22:57] <ochosi> hehe
[22:57] <ochosi> progressdots?
[22:58] <xnox> ochosi: cause there is normal "progressbar" as well, still. Should the two have the same class/style? as ideally the two should match color. as both are progress "dots where where you need to do stuff, and long progressbar where you wait and get entertained by a slideshow"
[22:59] <ochosi> mhm, let me test it and i'll tell you
[22:59] <ochosi> as i said, i would assume that it should actually look fine in greybird
[22:59] <ochosi> so most likely everything can stay as it is
[22:59] <xnox> ok. but let me know if you want to style it better.
[22:59] <ochosi> actually i'm not 100% sure that the two would have to match for consistency
[23:00] <ochosi> progressbar != progressdots
[23:00] <ochosi> progressbar is bound to time, progressdots are bound to number of pages
[23:00] <ochosi> progressdots are accurate, progressbars are useless (often)
[23:02] <ochosi> xnox: if i already have an up-to-date vbox of R, i could run ubiquity there directly as well, right?
[23:02] <xnox> ochosi: for some value of run.
[23:02] <ochosi> hm? sorry, how?
[23:03] <xnox> ochosi: you can't complete the install so you can run it up-to partitioning.
[23:03] <ochosi> ah ok
[23:03] <ochosi> yeah, i just wanna see it, that's all, so it should be fine
[23:03] <ochosi> wow, 280megs of depends
[23:03] <ochosi> not bad :}
[23:04] <ochosi> it seems to pull in half of kde
[23:05] <xnox> ochosi: you want: apt-get install ubiquity ubiquity-frontend-gtk
[23:05] <xnox> to get the gtk one instead of kde.
[23:05] <ochosi> ah yeah, much better
[23:05] <ochosi> thanks
[23:05] <pleia2> Noskcaj: when you have some time, I'm brainstorming a mailing list + blog post that would be an updated version of http://xubuntu.org/news/help-test-xubuntu/
[23:07] <ochosi> xnox: btw, i really appreciate you hanging out here. i remember when i fixed that stupid compositing problem of the ubiquity session with xfwm4 you were a great help!
[23:07] <pleia2> we no longer do untracked short/long tests like described there really
[23:07] <xnox> ochosi: np. I pop in and go really, though ;-)
[23:08] <pleia2> Noskcaj: draft here http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/jZSPPjyJ9K
[23:08] <ochosi> xnox: that's fine, but these days any cross-desktop effort is highly appreciated! :)
[23:08] <pleia2> (and anyone else interested ))
[23:10] <ochosi> xnox: there you go, looks really fine imo: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03092013-120940am.php
[23:11] <ochosi> btw, i assumed that the dots would work like a pager, i.e. not fill up one after another but have a moving dot that indicates only the current page
[23:15] <ochosi> (libtool is installed)
[23:15] <ochosi> oops, wrong chan ^
[23:18] <Noskcaj> pleia2, looking at it now, i was busy trying to set a world record
[23:20] <pleia2> Noskcaj: all I actually wrote was an outline of what I want to see in the post
[23:20] <pleia2> this is my sneaky way of making you write what I want to see
[23:20] <pleia2> :)
[23:24] <Noskcaj> :)


[00:36] <KGB-2> gnome-todo Jeremy Bicha 270446 * commented merge request !3 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gnome-todo/-/merge_requests/3#note_270446
[00:52] <KGB-2> libcloudproviders Jeremy Bicha 270448 * commented merge request !2 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libcloudproviders/-/merge_requests/2#note_270448
[04:18] <KBar> New Firefox, the snap version installed by default on impish, doesn't have Ubuntu-related bookmarks that used to be present on previous versions.
[04:30] <KBar> Is that an intended change?
[06:37] <KGB-1> libcloudproviders David Heidelberg 270464 * commented merge request !2 * https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/libcloudproviders/-/merge_requests/2#note_270464
[12:04] <KGB-0> gnome-todo Janitor 270474 * commented merge request !3 * https://deb.li/3jh7D
[21:54] <KGB-0> libcloudproviders Jeremy Bicha 270632 * commented merge request !2 * https://deb.li/3M1nl


[09:54] <Riddell> JackYu: ubuntu kylin not doing alpha 2?
[09:55] <Riddell> knome: how's the xubuntu testing going?
[09:56] <knome> Riddell, so-so; i should be able to squeeze in a few tests myself today
[09:57] <Riddell> knome: think you'll be able to declare it ready?
[09:57] <knome> Riddell, when's the deadline?
[09:58] <Riddell> knome: "today" :)
[09:58] <Riddell> infinity: any preferred time to release?
[09:59] <knome> sure, i'll be able to do that (or tell it's not ready if it seems totally broken)
[10:00] <knome> Riddell, ^
[10:00] <Riddell> groovy
[10:13]  * Riddell starts on http://pad.ubuntu.com/saucy-alpha-2
[10:15] <infinity> Riddell: No, preset release times are pointless.  When we're happy with the testing that's been done and each flavour gives a yes/no on their images.
[10:24] <Riddell> knome: able to update this too? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Alpha2/Xubuntu
[10:26] <knome> Riddell, i'll get that done
[10:33] <infinity> Riddell: Well, okay, *I* have a preferred release time of "within the next five or six hours" cause I had plans tonight.  But, really, if it's still Thursday somewhere in the world, meh.  I leave it up to you and the leads participating when to call it good (and/or to decide someone's not releasing).
[10:34] <Riddell> infinity: presumably if needs you to be around to copy the images over?
[10:36] <infinity> Riddell: Yeah.  Well, s/me/someone with cdimage access/, but I was the one who signed up for that. ;)
[11:31] <phillw> infinity: a bit of advice, please.... We're happy enough with our A2's, but there is a little gremlin in the i386 alternate which is solved by using the 3.10.0-5 kernel (it's currently on 3.10.0-4). As this is more a bug fix; can I mark it for a respin and accept the test results from before?
[11:32] <darkxst> phillw, 3.10.0-4 is nasty!
[11:33] <infinity> phillw: Erm, I rebuilt everything for the new kernel, didn't I?
[11:34] <infinity> phillw: And confirmed, the current image has -5 in it.
[11:34] <darkxst> infinity, something went funny there, our first (ubuntu GNOME) respin did not pick up -5 kernel
[11:35] <phillw> infinity: in that case, I'll go and kick the tester :)
[11:36] <jbicha> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily/current/saucy-alternate-i386.list syas 3.10.0-4
[11:37] <jbicha> *says
[11:37] <phillw> jbicha: I'll not go and kick the tester... :)
[11:38] <infinity> Oh, stgraber only checked the desktop image. ;)
[11:38] <infinity> I'll respin the alternate.
[11:38] <infinity> Or, wait.  Yeah.  You can. :P
[11:38] <jbicha> as does amd64 and amd64+mac
[11:38] <infinity> phillw: Respin away.
[11:39] <phillw> infinity: if we respin all the alternates, that will resolve any 3.10.-4 niggles and then we're good to go :)
[11:39] <Riddell> phillw: this is lubuntu?
[11:39] <phillw> Riddell: yes, (we're the only one with alternates :) )
[11:39] <Riddell> phillw: can you get someone to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Alpha2/Lubuntu ?
[11:40] <phillw> Riddell: I certainly will.
[11:49] <Riddell> awooga
[11:49] <darkxst> I am off for the night, but ubuntu GNOME images are good to go!
[11:52] <jbicha> darkxst: thanks
[11:54] <phillw> Riddell: I've to go out for a couple of hours, I'll do the release notes on my return (the respins should be complete by then) I've marked the bug as fix released re the -4 kernel issue.
[12:11] <JackYu> Riddell, we will:)
[12:12] <Riddell> JackYu: marked ready with no tests complete?
[12:13] <JackYu> Riddell, a mistaken, will retest soon
[12:14] <JackYu> Riddell, our QA team is testing this new version.
[12:15] <maclin> Riddell: we are still doing tests
[12:15] <Riddell> groovy
[12:59] <knome> Riddell, i'm pretty happy with the xubuntu tests, so if you're only pending on us, we can make them ready; but if you need to wait for others as well, we might run a few more tests later
[13:05] <knome> release managers, wondering if bug 1185396 is xubuntu-specific or if it affects everybody
[13:05] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185396
[13:12] <knome> Riddell, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Alpha2/Xubuntu is pretty much also done if you decide to release
[13:19] <jbicha> knome: well not "everybody" as several flavors don't ship gnome-system-tools
[13:21] <jbicha> it's unmaintained upstream
[13:30] <knome> jbicha, right... so what do they use to create users and groups?
[13:33] <jbicha> Ubuntu, Kylin, and GNOME use gnome-control-center; Kubuntu uses systemsettings
[13:36] <jbicha> gnome-control-center doesn't do groups; someone is either Standard or Administrator
[13:45] <ScottK> Actually Kubuntu uses userconfig, but that may change soon as there's a new replacement coming.
[13:46] <Riddell> so just lubuntu alternates we're waiting on
[13:48]  * Riddell out for an hour
[14:24] <Riddell> phillw: lubuntu all ok?
[14:24] <Riddell> without tests?
[14:26] <phillw> Riddell: it was just a respin to fix a known bug in the old kernel, that bug is marked fix released as manually updating the kenel removed the critter http://launchpad.net/bugs/1203852
[14:26] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1203852 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu Saucy fails to boot after installation" [Undecided,Fix released]
[14:27] <phillw> the alternates didn't get respun when the new kernel was globally updated :)
[14:27] <Riddell> phillw: so you're happy to release untested images for this alpha?
[14:27] <phillw> quite happy, I've looked at the bugs from the previous build, the only critical one was re: the kernel.
[14:28] <Riddell> okay dokay
[14:28] <Riddell> infinity: wants to pull the release leaver?
[14:28] <phillw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Alpha2/Lubuntu has been updated.
[14:39] <infinity> Riddell: When I'm out of this meeting, yeah.  How's 1700 BST (or so) for you?
[14:41] <Riddell> infinity: lovely
[14:41] <knome> does that convert to 18UTC?
[14:42] <Riddell> other way
[14:42] <infinity> knome: 16UTC
[14:42] <knome> okay
[14:53] <Riddell> anyone got comments on http://pad.ubuntu.com/saucy-alpha-2 ?
[14:58] <knome> Riddell, s/XFCE/Xfce/ (i did that, but for future)
[14:59] <Riddell> knome: but it's still pronounced x.f.c.e. ?
[14:59] <knome> yup
[14:59] <Riddell> hard to pronounce that as a word really
[14:59] <Riddell> I've always said Gnome should be written as a word but they never listened to me
[15:00] <knome> it used to be an acronym, but the acronym wouldn't be technically correct any more, so it's just Xfce :)
[15:01] <knome> agreed with the GNOME thing, it's just obtrusive in a block of text ;)
[15:02] <knome> btw, was there something else to be fixed in the xubuntu alpha page on the wiki or was it just that we needed to fill in?
[15:02] <knome> Riddell, ^
[15:04] <Riddell> just needed filled in
[15:04] <knome> oki
[15:05] <jbicha> GNOME!
[15:05] <jbicha> I think the exclamation point helps
[15:07] <knome> yes, the name itself doesn't stand out as much :P
[15:09] <Riddell> removing Laney's mega block
[15:09] <Laney> :'(
[15:10] <Riddell> Laney: but we won't forget you!
[15:10] <Laney> desecration of art, that is
[15:33] <cafetiere> Benc. Will do.
[15:40] <Riddell> cafetiere ?
[15:41] <cafetiere> Wrong channel ...
[16:03] <phillw> I missed those two! hope I'm not too late :)
[16:05] <infinity> phillw: Too late, you don't get to upgrade.
[16:08] <stgraber> knome: do you plan on releasing amd64?
[16:08] <knome> stgraber, sure. as i said to Riddell, i'm ok with releasing stuff but if we're waiting for others, i might have had time to do more tests
[16:09] <knome> stgraber, so if you're going to push the button... please also release our amd64 ;)
[16:09] <infinity> knome: It's releasy time, so mark it ready for me.
[16:10] <knome> i will
[16:10] <infinity> Just building the source ISOs now.
[16:10] <knome> done.
[16:46] <Riddell> infinity: ETA?
[16:48] <stgraber> Riddell: in progress
[16:55] <infinity> Riddell: Iz publishing.  Pushing mirrors shortly.
[17:00] <infinity> Riddell: Syncing mirrors.
[17:05] <Riddell> infinity: is there a secret to being able to send to ubuntu-devel-announce?
[17:19] <infinity> Riddell: Nope.  Did you already post?
[17:20] <infinity> Riddell: Apparently not.
[17:20] <infinity> Riddell: It's moderated (by me, and a few others), feel free to send your announce, and I'll accept it as soon as the mirrors settle down on their rsync.
[17:26] <Riddell> infinity: send
[17:26] <Riddell> infinity: sent
[17:26]  * Riddell out
[17:33] <infinity> Riddell: Cool.  Just waiting on mirrors.  Still. :P
[17:46] <infinity> Riddell: Sync done, announce out.  Thanks.
[17:46] <phillw> infinity: whilst you wait on that, is there an email addy I could send you a recent email regarding PPC? It not only runs as liveCD, it installs and a long time bug has vanished.
[17:47] <infinity> phillw: Sure.
[17:57] <phillw> infinity: sent to your ubuntu account
[18:45] <ChrisTownsend> Hi!  I'd like to get an opinion on a Raring SRU Unity bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1074038 - Some of the strings pointed out by the bug reporter are still not translated.  The code is good and is needed in order to have the strings translated, but until a new language pack is done, some of the strings won't be translated.  Should I consider this verification-done or verification-failed since some
[18:45] <ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1074038 in Ubuntu Translations "Unity: Some untranslatable and wrong strings in the previews" [Medium,Triaged]
[20:35] <phillw> Riddell: and to put your (and anyone elses mind at rest), the team have been busily checking the respin of the alternate images for lubuntu and are very happy that the bugs seen in the -4 kernel are gone with the -5 and there are no regressions (which I guess was always going to be a concern). Thank-you to the team for allowing such a late respin.
[20:51] <phillw> Riddell: I'll be quiet soon, honest! for Alpha 1 the release notification was also sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>I've just joined the ubuntu-devel-announce listing, so I suspect some other people may not have recived the notification.
[21:10] <ScottK> phillw: Anyone involved in Ubuntu development is supposed to subscribe to u-d-a.  u-r is really just for the release team.
[21:10] <phillw> ScottK: I'm new... I have now joined :)
[21:11] <phillw> there seems precious little info for new people as to what to do, I'm flying by the seat of my pants on which teams / mailing lists etc. I should be on :D
[21:13] <mlankhorst> phillw: because usually it's the other way around, and people just get something done first and then find those things out later
[21:14] <phillw> mlankhorst: as is the case with me :) I thank you good people for your patience... especially when I goof up  big time!


[22:38] <n4dir> hi there. I got no more sound for my external speaker. I had the problem earlier, it seems to come and go, but i don't know how to troubleshoot it.
[22:38] <n4dir> same is valid for the headphone if i plug it in. Internal speaker works.
[22:49] <n4dir> i created another user, works for him. Now how to figure out which setting is wrong?
[22:59] <OvenWerks> n4dir: Do you have a more complete description of what is happening?
[22:59] <OvenWerks> is jack running?
[22:59] <OvenWerks> sound from what application?
[23:00] <OvenWerks> how are the interanl and extrernal speakers hooked up?
[23:00] <OvenWerks> (to which which audio interface)
[23:14] <n4dir> OvenWerks: jack is running, but the same is valid if it is not. The internal speaker is from the laptop, the external is plugged into the laptop.
[23:15] <n4dir> the funny/weird thing is that it happens after reboot, it worked, so i didn't change anything. And it also started to work again without much input from me
[23:15] <n4dir> this is 2 or 3 days in a row now. Stops working, starts working again.
[23:15] <n4dir> pavucontrol says "no soundcard available".
[23:16] <n4dir> i guess that is still too vague. sorry for that. pretty new to audio stuff.
[23:17] <n4dir>  i usually use mocp to play audiofiles. i tested vlc, but it had the same problem. pavucontrol showed via volume meter there is output,  but i heard nothing, as said.
[23:17] <n4dir> else i tried to get the head into zynaddsubfx and ardour.
[23:21] <OvenWerks> n4dir: if pavucontrol says "no soundcard available" that is a good indication jack is running.
[23:22] <OvenWerks> unless jack has crashed
[23:22] <n4dir> ok, got that.
[23:22] <n4dir> as in: i wasn't sure about it until now
[23:22] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio controls unloads pulse's alsa  modules when it starts jack and then bridges pulse to jack.
[23:23] <n4dir> ok.
[23:24] <OvenWerks> when jack is not running pulse should show the devices
[23:24] <OvenWerks> when pulse sees the device, switching from one device to the other will be automatic.
[23:24] <n4dir> i stopped jack with qjackctl, lots of back and forth, but i am quite sure that pavucontrol didn't show "soundcard" after stopping jack.
[23:25] <n4dir> which it sure did in the past
[23:25] <OvenWerks> if you start jack with -controls that is how you should stop it too.
[23:25] <OvenWerks> qjackctl does things differnt
[23:25] <n4dir> sorry, i don't understand that.
[23:26] <OvenWerks> if you use ubuntustudio-controls to start jack then that is also the way you should stop jack
[23:26] <OvenWerks> otherwise pulse will not get reset
[23:26] <n4dir> ah, i see. I didn't use ubuntustudio-controls
[23:26] <OvenWerks> ok
[23:26] <n4dir> but it is either the one or the other. not mixing both methods
[23:27] <OvenWerks> right
[23:27] <n4dir> ok, thanks
[23:27] <OvenWerks> in alsamixer which devices do you see?
[23:28] <OvenWerks> I should ask in a different way...
[23:28] <OvenWerks> aplay -l
[23:28] <n4dir> HDA Intel Mid ? (yeah, probably a different way). ah, ok
[23:29] <OvenWerks> shows what?
[23:29] <n4dir> a second, quite some output i will pastebinit
[23:29] <OvenWerks> aplay -l |pastebinit
[23:30] <n4dir> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/thd6FBwd6f/
[23:31] <OvenWerks> ok so just one audio card.
[23:32] <OvenWerks> amixer -c 0 scontrols |pastebinit
[23:32] <n4dir> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MHHdgY8GnP/
[23:34] <OvenWerks> so the internal speakers use the speaker level control and the external is Front?
[23:35] <n4dir> sorry, but i really don't know. Usually i plug in the external and that makes the internal silent. And the other way around.
[23:35] <n4dir> to raise or lower the volume i just use "master"
[23:36] <OvenWerks> have you ever opened alsamixer?
[23:36] <n4dir> but yes, external seems to be front
[23:37] <n4dir> yes, but only ro change the volume by usin "master"
[23:37] <OvenWerks> in alsamixer when you plug and unplug things the levels and mutes for those plugs should change
[23:38] <n4dir> the "speaker" of alsamixer doesn't change. i can't change it
[23:38] <OvenWerks> when you plugin the phones the phone level should go full and the mute should go off
[23:38] <OvenWerks> if it a full level control or just a switch?
[23:39] <OvenWerks> can you give me a screen shot?
[23:39] <n4dir> of alsamixer?
[23:39] <OvenWerks> ya
[23:39] <n4dir> give me a bit
[23:41] <n4dir> OvenWerks: https://postimg.cc/nsG5f1GS
[23:42] <OvenWerks> ya the speaker is just a mute button if you move to it and hit m you shoud get sound.
[23:43] <OvenWerks> same with headphones I see. phones are not muted right now.
[23:44] <OvenWerks> you have a different setup than I have seen before. Good info.
[23:44] <OvenWerks> (for me)  ;)
[23:45] <n4dir> so i probably hit "m" by confusion, and also i hit "m" by accident to make it work again. Which is less unusual than it may sound. switching windows in "screen" i use "n", which is quite close
[23:45] <n4dir> OvenWerks: this should be pretty much the way it was from the beginning. I installed a few days ago, perhaps 1 or 2 weeks
[23:46] <OvenWerks> do you have devices in pavucontrol right now?
[23:46] <n4dir> no, but let me look again.
[23:46] <n4dir> no
[23:47] <OvenWerks> I have a long command all one line...
[23:47] <OvenWerks> cd /tmp && wget https://community.ardour.org/files/adevices.sh && bash ./adevices.sh |pastebinit
[23:48] <OvenWerks> That will let me see if something else is using the audio
[23:48] <n4dir> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/spG684c7Wc/
[23:49] <OvenWerks> so jackdbus is running
[23:49] <OvenWerks> cat ~/.config/autojack/autojackrc |pastebinit
[23:50] <n4dir> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cCjThkFfFz/
[23:51] <OvenWerks> open ubuntustudio-controls go to the audio setup tab and hit "Stop jack" at the bottonm
[23:51] <n4dir> ok, stopped
[23:52] <OvenWerks> pavucontrols shold show devices now.
[23:52] <n4dir> in case ... yes, it does show it.
[23:53] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-controls remembers the last command about jack so if it is running when you reboot it will still be running next time you boot up
[23:53] <n4dir> OvenWerks: assuming i hit the mute "m" in  alsamixer, it should create the problem for both, pulse and jack, right?
[23:54] <n4dir> or might it be the problem is what you just said?  (i had a quick look at ubuntustudio-controls, not sure when)
[23:54] <OvenWerks> possibly, but also if jack is started in ubuntustudio-controls and then stopped /started from qjackctl that would cause trouble as well
[23:54] <n4dir> and said earlier, mixing qjack and ubuntustudio-controls.
[23:55] <n4dir> ok, one last question, hoping this problem won't occur again (at least i will have learned a bit to troubleshoot):
[23:55] <OvenWerks> The last paste showed that ubuntustudio-controls had started jack and thought it was running
[23:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> Moral of the story: don't use qjackctl. It's outdated and cumbersome.
[23:55] <OvenWerks> the long line showed that jackdbus was running
[23:56] <n4dir> would you advice me to rather use ubuntustudio-controls instead of qjackctl ... the question was answered already :-)
[23:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> n4dir: It's built to *replace* qjackctl in functionality and be easier to use, so yes, absolutely.
[23:56] <OvenWerks> n4dir: also, any profession audio program (like ardour with the alsa back end) will block the device from other uses untill exit
[23:57] <n4dir> how would i "route" devices like the midi-keyboard in ubuntustudio-controls ?
[23:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> n4dir: That's why Carla is linked. Use the patchbay tab in Carla.
[23:58] <OvenWerks> n4dir: right now auto switching from internal to extren speakers to headphones does not happen while jack is running.
[23:59] <OvenWerks> the next version of studio-controls does... I am not so sure about the speaker thing though :) That will take some thought.


[02:07] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[02:56] <marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: what? You exited a few hours ago and already slept?
[02:56] <marcoagpinto> :)
[02:57] <lotuspsychje> i had my sleep yeah
[02:58] <marcoagpinto> I will try to sleep at 8am... mum was shouting at me to go to bed, but I am working on the GB speller and thesis
[02:58] <marcoagpinto> I can't sleep
[02:58] <lotuspsychje> drink more cola :p
[02:58] <marcoagpinto> hey hey
[02:58] <marcoagpinto> that is what I am doing
[02:58] <marcoagpinto> :)
[02:58] <marcoagpinto> how did you guess?
[03:19] <marcoagpinto> ahhhh... another subchapter revised
[03:19] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:19] <marcoagpinto> just some three or for left in the first chapter
[03:19] <marcoagpinto> :)
[03:19] <marcoagpinto> for=four*
[06:33] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:50] <marcoagpinto> Hello!
[10:12] <luna> hi
[11:02] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[11:05] <EoflaOE> Hello BluesKaj
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
[11:05] <BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE
[11:06] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje and BluesKaj: Hello, How are you doing?
[11:07] <BluesKaj> just fine, having morning coffee atm, helps me wake up
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> all good here, chill afternoon on irc :p
[11:08] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje and BluesKaj: Nice. I am doing fine
[11:08] <BluesKaj> how about you, EoflaOE?
[11:09] <EoflaOE> BluesKaj: I am doing fine.
[11:15] <EoflaOE> Have you seen my blog?
[11:15] <lotuspsychje> new post?
[11:16] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Yes, this time, about my bug report.
[11:16] <lotuspsychje> interesting, feel free to share
[11:16] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Thanks.
[11:20] <EoflaOE> Link: https://eofla.wordpress.com/2019/07/31/my-first-bug-finding-on-ubuntu-19-10-eoan-ermine/
[11:20] <marcoagpinto> BluesKaj! Hello!
[11:21] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Hello
[11:21] <marcoagpinto> hey hey hey
[11:21] <BluesKaj> hey marcoagpinto
[11:21] <EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: How are you doing?
[11:21] <marcoagpinto> I am working on my thesis :)
[11:21] <marcoagpinto> and you?
[11:22] <EoflaOE> I am doing fine, running Ubuntu 19.10 and Lubuntu 19.10
[11:22] <lotuspsychje> looks good EoflaOE
[11:23] <EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Thanks. When I download Ubuntu Budgie 19.10, I will install it and see if it has bugs somewhere.
[11:26] <BluesKaj> I haven't seen any serious bugs at all on Kubuntu 19.10, this dev OS is more stable than some official releases of the past few yrs
[11:27] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: wich software centre does kubuntu use these days?
[11:28] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: bashing-om also confirmed he didnt cross much bugs on ermine yet
[11:28] <BluesKaj> it's still discover, but I still use muon as my reference
[11:30] <BluesKaj> most of my app installs, which are not many, are by the konsole, but for reference info muon does the job without all the gui bloat of discover
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> i see
[11:31] <lotuspsychje> probably it doesnt have 'details' to click like EoflaOE bug?
[11:31] <EoflaOE> I install software mostly by "apt" and sometimes looking at "Synaptic."
[11:33] <BluesKaj> muon has details like, technical, dependencies, etc
[15:36] <leftyfb> wtf was that all about?
[15:43] <tomreyn> the chat about different apt frontends?
[15:43] <tomreyn> or this? <squirt> Leaving #ubuntu by alien64's Request
[17:52] <leftyfb> tomreyn: the latter
[17:54] <tomreyn> leftyfb: i guess we could ask either of them, and point out the bot rules. I was wondering, too.


[00:00] <godbyk> daker: you need help transferring the website files from the ubuntu-manual branch to the ubuntu-manual-website branch?
[00:01] <daker> no with Series and milestones
[00:01] <daker> ??!!!
[00:01] <daker> i don't know if waht i am doing is correct or not :)
[00:02] <godbyk> daker: it looks like it's probably okay to me.
[00:02] <godbyk> I don't really understand them all fully, either.
[00:02] <godbyk> Basically, the milestones are things like alpha, beta, release candidate, etc.
[00:02] <daker> o.O
[00:02] <godbyk> and a series is where you want to work on two things in parallel.
[00:03] <godbyk> do we need to have milestones for the website? we have most of it done already, don't we?
[00:03] <daker> yes
[00:15] <daker> if i want to move all the UMP website from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual to https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[00:15] <daker> possible ?
[00:16] <godbyk> daker: the translations will automatically appear.  if the translators translate something in the UMP and it's the same string that's in the website, then it'll automatically appear.
[00:18] <daker> oki
[02:48] <humphreybc> hi all
[02:48] <daker> hi humphreybc
[02:49] <humphreybc> :)
[02:49] <daker> it was a looong time
[02:51] <humphreybc> how's the website stuff going daker?
[02:53] <daker> i am going to move the website to lp:ubuntu-manual-website
[02:53] <godbyk> hey, humphreybc.
[03:07] <humphreybc> daker: cool
[03:07] <humphreybc> hey kevin
[03:08] <daker> and you what's up ?
[03:08] <humphreybc> not a lot
[03:08] <humphreybc> need to tidy my room up today, it's a bit of a mess
[03:08]  * humphreybc might re-design nautilus
[03:09] <godbyk> redesign it how?
[03:09] <humphreybc> make it more streamlined, less cluttered
[03:10] <humphreybc> sort of like the elementary team has done
[03:10] <humphreybc> i also just want to draw some stuff on graph paper
[03:10] <humphreybc> :)
[03:11] <godbyk> gotcha.
[03:11] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:11] <godbyk> didn't a couple different people do that a while back? (wasn't there a post or two on OMG or Planet GNOME about some mockups, at least?)
[03:12] <humphreybc> maybe
[03:12] <humphreybc> I think Ubuntu should fork Nautilus
[03:12] <humphreybc> and make it better
[03:12] <humphreybc> but i'll talk to you about that in a PM later today
[03:12] <godbyk> 'kay.
[03:28] <godbyk> humphreybc: Can you get the list of contributors/credits to me sometime soonish? I'd like to get that dumped into the PDF (and website) and figure out which parts the translators need to translate.
[03:28] <humphreybc> okay
[03:28] <humphreybc> i'll work on that today
[03:28] <godbyk> It would be great if we could get everyone's names both in Latin script and whatever their preferred script is.
[03:29] <humphreybc> hm
[03:29] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:29] <humphreybc> might be a bit hard though
[03:29] <humphreybc> i'll see what I can do
[03:29] <godbyk> cool.
[03:29] <godbyk> I don't know if it's a matter of emailing the list and translators and asking for their names or what.
[03:29] <humphreybc> i think i'll go through all the launchpad contributors etc first, grab everyone
[03:30] <humphreybc> and the ones who have odd names i'll try to contact individually
[03:30] <godbyk> Also, if anyone has copied text from another project, we need to know what that text is licensed under, hope that it's compatible, and cite it if necessary.
[03:30] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:30] <humphreybc> i think Ilya took the firefox stuff from mozilla
[03:30] <godbyk> yeah, and that's in the credits already, I think.  but other text may have come from the ubuntu docs project. I'm not sure what their license is (haven't looked).
[03:31] <humphreybc> same as ours
[03:31] <humphreybc> we can just credit them anyway
[03:31] <godbyk> that may be something we have to ask the authors (and hope they're honest about it).
[03:31] <humphreybc> let's just credit them anyway
[03:31] <humphreybc> stick them in special thanks
[03:31] <godbyk> we can, that's not a problem.
[03:31] <humphreybc> :)
[03:31] <godbyk> I just don't want to miss anyone/anything.
[03:31] <humphreybc> keep em' happy :P
[03:31] <humphreybc> yeah, i know
[03:31] <humphreybc> it'll be a bit hard
[03:32] <godbyk> we'll have to organize all that better for this next edition. :)
[03:32] <godbyk> It's all going to be easier the second time 'round, right?  Right?  :-)
[03:32] <humphreybc> ugh
[03:32] <humphreybc> honestly? no :)
[03:32] <humphreybc> it'll be just the same
[03:32] <humphreybc> if it's easy, it's boring
[03:32] <humphreybc> people like challenges, keeps them interested and occupied
[03:34] <godbyk> ha!
[03:35] <humphreybc> you think i'm joking ;)
[03:36] <godbyk> I'm hoping so! :)
[03:37]  * daker is upgrading to Lucid
[08:51]  * humphreybc just had his interview for the Full Circle Magazine podcast, went really well
[09:06] <humphreybc> when is translation support going to hit ubuntu-manual.org?
[09:12] <godbyk> humphreybc: When daker's ready to make the test.ubuntu-manual.org site the ubuntu-manual.org site.
[09:12] <godbyk> I emailed him about it a bit earlier.
[09:14] <humphreybc> k
[09:15] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[09:15] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: can you put me down as a writer on the website please
[09:19] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: on the wiki what would you like me to do about the meeting that is listed there for the 2oth march?
[09:23] <humphreybc> luke, the "titles" will be different for the actual credits in the PDF
[09:23] <humphreybc> I'll put you as Author, Quickshot developer
[09:23] <humphreybc> but then we've all done multiple things
[09:23] <humphreybc> in theory I should have Team lead, Author, Editor, Web designer etc etc
[09:23] <humphreybc> but in the PDF it'll be different
[09:23] <ubuntujenkins> ok true just leav it as quickhsot
[09:23] <ubuntujenkins> you have a good point
[09:24] <humphreybc> and for the wiki, just remove the stuff about the 20th march thing
[09:24] <ubuntujenkins> ok will do
[09:25] <humphreybc> :)
[09:43]  * ubuntujenkins meeting done
[09:49] <popey> whats wrong with the textlive in the ubuntu repo for lucid?
[09:49] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors suggests getting texlive from upstream?
[09:50] <humphreybc> popey: not enough character support for all the languages
[09:50] <popey> so if I wanted to build the manual for en-gb it would be fine?
[09:50] <humphreybc> no, you'll need texlive 2009 unfortunately
[09:51] <humphreybc> i think so
[09:51] <ubuntujenkins> yep you need the upstream ones even for english
[09:51] <godbyk> popey: The Lucid packages don't have the latest TeX packages that we require (specifically, polyglossia).
[09:51] <popey> is upstream just newer than the one in lucid?
[09:51] <popey> is there a bug filed?
[09:52] <humphreybc> i think it's not a bug, more just the fact TeX 2009 is quite new
[09:52] <godbyk> popey: Probably not. I haven't looked at the packages for a few months.
[09:53] <godbyk> popey: Basically, the Lucid packages will never keep up to date with the TeX Live packages themselves.
[09:54] <godbyk> popey: We're using some leading edge packages for the TeX stuff (and we're actually contributing some code back to them).
[09:56] <popey> ok, thanks
[09:56] <godbyk> No problem.
[10:48]  * ubuntujenkins shouts at python dbus
[13:45] <ubuntujenkins> hello all
[13:45] <daker> hi
[13:45] <daker> lucid looks good
[13:47] <ubuntujenkins> hi daker lucid is good, i have had it since alpha 2/3 I think
[13:48] <daker> from last night
[13:48] <ubuntujenkins> I installed 9.04 yesterday in a vm and that looks so old and wierd
[13:49] <daker> hhh
[19:55] <ubuntujenkins> evening everyone
[20:29] <daker> :)
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> hello daker, how was your day?
[21:48]  * ubuntujenkins and quickshot fails on another local
[22:02]  * ubuntujenkins doesn't understand why it doesn't work
[22:02] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
[22:21] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: which locale is failing now?
[22:22] <ubuntujenkins> all of Serbian language I have filled a bug against the python module. titeuf put in a work around but it doesn't appear to work
[22:24] <ubuntujenkins> nope that work around was for something else just trying to write one now
[22:25] <godbyk> gotcha.
[22:26] <godbyk> so is it just that pybabel (or whichever module) doesn't know about all the locales we're using? or something else?
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> I hope the user is using the ppa. It isn't pybabel all pypbabel does is provide us with a pretty display name for the language. its the locale module that that issue is in
[22:28] <godbyk> ah
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> ok type $LANG in your teminal
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> how can i extract the first two letters of it?
[22:29] <godbyk> with python?
[22:29] <godbyk> you actually want to extract up to the underscore
[22:30] <godbyk> so: (lang_code, locale_code) = LANG.split("_", 2)
[22:30] <godbyk> or something like that.
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> exacltly, with python ideal or bash
[22:30] <godbyk> then lang_code will be the stuff before the _ and locale_code is everything after.
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> I don't know if your suggestion works
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> yes all we need is the first bit as far as i know
[22:31] <godbyk> $ python
[22:31] <godbyk> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec  7 2009, 18:43:55)
[22:31] <godbyk> [GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
[22:31] <godbyk> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
[22:31] <godbyk> >>> (lang, locale) = "en_US.UTF-8".split("_", 2)
[22:31] <godbyk> >>> print lang
[22:31] <godbyk> en
[22:31] <godbyk> >>> print locale
[22:31] <godbyk> US.UTF-8
[22:31] <godbyk> >>>
[22:31] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk that helps to fix it
[22:31] <godbyk> 'kay.
[22:32] <godbyk> you could further splut the locale into locale and encoding (split on the .)
[22:32] <ubuntujenkins> I don't "think" it is needed, every day is a learning day for me :-)
[22:33]  * ubuntujenkins was pleased he helped someone else with python today
[22:56] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk, that should actually be .split('_', 1). The integer is the maximum number of times to split, nit the maximum number of returned elements.
[22:57] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Ah, thanks.
[22:57] <godbyk> I haven't written python code for quite some time.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> Other languages, like Java, work that way.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> So confusion is understandable.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> (I make that mistake when switching between Python and Java sometimes)
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> (It's quite annoying)
[22:58]  * ubuntujenkins notes that
[22:58] <godbyk> I can imagine.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> (Like any other off-by-one issue)
[23:00] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: bug 554861 has got another local that doesn't work I am writing a work around. Also filed a bug against the locale module and people are replying to it so quickly. un like ubuntu stuff
[23:00] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554861
[23:00] <Red_HamsterX> Python's issue tracker is weird.
[23:01] <Red_HamsterX> Sometimes things are investigated quickly, even when minor, and sometimes major things go ignored for weeks.
[23:01] <Red_HamsterX> I'll see if I can write a patch against it if nobody claims ownership by tomorrow.
[23:02] <ubuntujenkins> I am not sure i filed it against the right thing at them moment put a patch would be nice if you can do it.
[23:03] <ubuntujenkins> if you look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861/comments/6
[23:03] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
[23:03] <Red_HamsterX> Python's dev team is pretty good about spotting duplicates and moving stuff to the right place.
[23:03] <ubuntujenkins> ooo i did file it right "Actually, my diagnosis was wrong. The locale module contains a list of locale aliases and some of the Serbian ones are missing. A recent locale.alias file from X11 is more complete."
[23:04] <ubuntujenkins> anyway what i was going to ask form the output of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861/comments/6 would this be the right thing to except "except ValueError: unknown locale:"
[23:04] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
[23:04] <Red_HamsterX> Of course, we won't see that fix until 2.7, so we'll have to catch ValueError.
[23:06] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, "except ValueError, e: error-log-write("Unable to process locale: %(error)s" % {'error': str(e),}"
[23:06] <godbyk> I have four locale.alias files on my system (at least that locate locale.alias found for me)
[23:06] <godbyk> the X11 one has the sr_RS entry, but the others don't.
[23:07] <Red_HamsterX> Where we'd replace the string with something more uniform after evaluating how we should rebuild stuff.
[23:10] <ubuntujenkins> hang on i am confused
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> why are we using short_code = locale.getdefaultlocale()[0] when we could use short_code = = os.environ['LANG']
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> ignore th double =
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> *the
[23:11]  * ubuntujenkins typing fail
[23:12] <Red_HamsterX> We'd have to ask titeuf. I assumed it was because getdefaultlocale() did some sort of validation that he found helpful/necessary.
[23:12] <ubuntujenkins> if we use the other way it would save us the problems.
[23:13] <ubuntujenkins> If i understand it right
[23:14] <Red_HamsterX> It likely would, yes.
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> reply form the bug is "getdefaultlocale is inherently unmaintainable, and shouldn't be used by applications. I wish it was removed from Python (but unfortunately, too many people got tricked into believing that it does something useful).
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> That said, if anybody feels like updating the tables from the various data sources, please go ahead."
[23:14] <Red_HamsterX> But we'd need to make sure Ubuntu can't possibly mess up $LANG.
[23:15] <Red_HamsterX> I can commit a patch against 2.7/3.2, then.
[23:15] <Red_HamsterX> Switch to $LANG, I guess.
[23:15] <ubuntujenkins> thanks, i don't know what others are missing yet
[23:18] <ubuntujenkins> I will drop titeuf an e-mail just to double check if there was a reason. I will impliment it and release it in the morning unless there is an issue. and do another cd is suppose.
[23:18] <godbyk> Per the description, getdefaultlocale() looks at the four locale-related environment variables and parses them in order of precedence.
[23:19] <ubuntujenkins> which are those variables and where would i find them?
[23:20] <godbyk> Whereas LANG itself can be overriden by $LANGUAGE.
[23:20] <godbyk> http://www.gnu.org/software/hello/manual/gettext/Locale-Environment-Variables.html
[23:21] <ubuntujenkins> ok I will keep what i wrote and look for the error from getdefaultlocale and use os,envi.... as a fall back
[23:21] <godbyk> k
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> thanks guys, I am going to bed
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> night o/