[02:07] <JoshStrobl> Out of curiosity, any particular reason why lp:ubuntu-html5-theme Series 13.10 hasn't been receiving backports of the 14.04 series? I get there is an upcoming 14.04 release, sorta loaded up 13.10 with the SDK and ubuntu-html5-theme expecting things to work, only to find out I needed to manually bzr branch the trusty branch and manally move the ambiance 0.1 stuff to /usr/share/ubuntu-html5-theme.
[02:47] <Bending_Spoons> hi everyone, is anyone active in here?  I have a question.
[06:30] <encompass> Hi there.  I can't get the html5 camera totorial to work in the qt-creator  it just shows the loading screen.  I wonder if I am missing some libraries to make it happen.  Any ideas?
[06:31] <encompass> Also, how do I "install" my app on the simulator so I can test it out?  I have a phone running Touch in the emulator but can't figure out how to do the installation.
[07:59] <idebug> when i run my app on the emulator.The log show:"Are developer tools installed.. 0 ..developer tools are not installed."Which package I show install?
[10:39] <JoshStrobl> Out of curiosity, any particular reason why lp:ubuntu-html5-theme Series 13.10 hasn't been receiving backports of the 14.04 series? I get there is an upcoming 14.04 release, sorta loaded up 13.10 with the SDK and ubuntu-html5-theme expecting things to work, only to find out I needed to manually bzr branch the trusty branch and manally move the ambiance 0.1 stuff to /usr/share/ubuntu-html5-theme. (Asked this earlier,
[10:39] <JoshStrobl> just ended up going to bed so figured I'd ask again now that I've woken up)
[13:13] <aquarius> graargh
[13:13] <aquarius> How am I meant to add a ListView to a page so that it doesn't go under the page header?
[13:14] <aquarius> I always, always get this wrong
[13:14] <aquarius> and it's really annoying
[13:15] <JoshStrobl> is the listview wrapped in

?
[13:15] <aquarius> JoshStrobl, QML app, not HTML5 app :)
[13:15] <JoshStrobl> ah
[13:16] <JoshStrobl> I'll show myself out then
[13:16] <JoshStrobl> :P
[13:16] <aquarius> QML does some magic handling of Pages and Flickables in them
[13:16] <aquarius> but I can never remember quite how the magic works
[13:16] <aquarius> which is a reason to not like magic :)
[13:17]  * JoshStrobl is kinda annoyed that ubuntu-html5-theme changes aren't being backported to saucy since the current series now is trusty. gotta manually update my bzr branch and pull whenever there are changes and make sure the symlinks to /usr/share/ are still valid.
[13:21] <JoshStrobl> If I knew how bzr worked (I'm more of a git user), I'd help backport and test changes between the trusty series and saucy (which would be fairly easy, since it's just CSS, JS etc.
[13:22] <aquarius> I suspect that there's a PPA to add to saucy which covers it?
[13:22] <aquarius> the general rule is that if you're on the dev release the changes are in that release; if you're on an older release, there's a PPA to add which has them
[13:22] <JoshStrobl> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-html5-theme > no changes have been made to the 13.10 series since 2013-11-27. All changes are onlp:ubuntu-html5-theme Series 14.04.
[13:22] <aquarius> but I do not know if the html5 theme stuff follows this rule
[13:23] <JoshStrobl> *on lp...
[13:23] <aquarius> daker, ping -- is there a PPA for saucy for the html5-theme stuff?
[13:23] <aquarius> daker will know. :)
[13:28] <JoshStrobl> I'm going to try again (after my re-install of ubuntu-sdk packages) to add the lp:ubuntu-html5-theme and see what happens.
[13:29] <aquarius> mhall119 might know as well
[13:31] <JoshStrobl> I think they might be idling :P
[14:01] <aquarius> in their defence they might be in America and asleep :)
[14:10] <aquarius> as is ken, who I need to talk to about the Content Hub stuff.
[14:35] <nik90> aquarius: set clip:true
[14:37] <mhall119> aquarius: what might I know?
[14:39] <mhall119> aquarius: JoshStrobl: the SDK's own PPA has ubuntu-html5-theme packages in it
[14:39] <JoshStrobl> He's alive \o/
[14:39] <JoshStrobl> mhall119: When I installed ubuntu-sdk in saucy it didn't include anything for html5 aside from the definitions in the "create a project"
[14:40] <JoshStrobl> for instance, there was no /usr/share/ubuntu-html5-theme/0.1/ambiance stuff, which is suggested in the docs
[14:40] <JoshStrobl> hence why I needed to manually grab ubuntu-html5-theme
[14:40] <mhall119> JoshStrobl: if you run "apt-cache policy ubuntu-html5-theme" what does it give you?
[14:41] <JoshStrobl> It says it's installed
[14:41] <YamakasY> he guys!
[14:41] <YamakasY> this channel is new to me
[14:42] <JoshStrobl> when I do dpkg --get-selections ubuntu-html5* is lists all the ubuntu-html5* stuff as install
[14:42] <JoshStrobl> hey YamakasY!
[14:42] <YamakasY> I'm building my own package and that is installed well. Now I want to install openjdk-7-jre with it so I added Depends: openjdk-7-jre but that doesn't install it
[14:45] <YamakasY> what amd I doing wrong here ?
[14:46] <ybon> Finally found time to upgrade my laptop to Trusty, and now autopilot tests run \o/
[14:46] <JoshStrobl> I'd upgrade but stuff like openjdk-fontfix doesn't have a trusty series yet.
[14:47] <JoshStrobl> No way am I going to use Java applications with bad fonts :D
[14:48] <ybon> why do you wanna use java applications? ;)
[14:48] <JoshStrobl> Because I'm a big fan of PhpStorm since it is the only IDE on Linux that properly supports Typescript and intellisense-like features for it.
[14:49] <YamakasY> I mean when I install openjdk-7-jre... the headless package is also installed with it
[14:51]  * JoshStrobl has no idea about the depends issue. Sorry :S
[14:51] <JoshStrobl> mhall119: Can you rescue YamakasY?
[14:51]  * JoshStrobl puts the superman cape on mhall119.
[14:51]  * YamakasY likes to be rescued
[14:52] <YamakasY> JoshStrobl: and has mhall119 also has some red swimsuite ?? :D
[14:52] <JoshStrobl> YamakasY: He might. You might want to ask him ;)
[14:52] <YamakasY> mhall119: ping :)
[14:53] <YamakasY> mhall119: or shall I Pamela you ? :D
[14:55] <YamakasY> it's strange as I believed it was working like that
[14:56] <mhall119> YamakasY: I prefer the batman look
[14:56] <YamakasY> mhall119: that's hot too
[14:56] <mhall119> YamakasY: what can I do for you?
[14:57] <YamakasY> I'm building my own package and that is installed well. Now I want to install openjdk-7-jre with it so I added Depends: openjdk-7-jre but that doesn't install it
[14:57] <mhall119> YamakasY: you're making a debian package then, not a click package?
[14:57] <YamakasY> mhall119: yap deb
[14:57] <YamakasY> what is a click package ?
[14:58] <mhall119> YamakasY: new-style packaging for stand-alone apps
[14:58] <YamakasY> ah ok
[14:58] <YamakasY> nope :)
[14:58] <YamakasY> it's a server package
[14:58] <mhall119> ok, and it's install installing openjdk-7-jre when you install it?
[14:58] <YamakasY> mhh
[14:59] <YamakasY> again ?
[14:59] <mhall119> what arch are you targetting?
[14:59] <YamakasY> I get dependencie messages
[14:59] <mhall119> ah, good,what are those?
[14:59] <YamakasY> my package needs openjdk-7-jre
[14:59] <YamakasY> it needs it but it's not going to be installed, so a apt-get -f install  fixes it
[15:00] <mhall119> does your depend on a specific version of it?
[15:00] <YamakasY> I need 7
[15:00] <YamakasY> jre
[15:00] <mhall119> right, but does it have a sub-version?
[15:01] <mhall119> like Depends: openjdk-7-jre (>=7u25-2.3.12-4ubuntu3)
[15:01] <YamakasY> uhm hoe do you mean ?
[15:01] <mhall119> or just Depends: openjdk-7-re
[15:01] <YamakasY> Depends
[15:01] <mhall119> can you pastebin your debian/control file?
[15:02] <YamakasY> mhall119: http://www.pastebin.ca/2650115
[15:02] <YamakasY> don't mention the second depends
[15:03] <mhall119> and what message do you get when you try to install it?
[15:04] <YamakasY>  red5-server-1.0.2 depends on openjdk-7-jre; however:
[15:04] <YamakasY>   Package openjdk-7-jre is not installed.
[15:06] <mhall119> YamakasY: are you installing it with dpkg or apt?
[15:07] <YamakasY> mhall119: dpkg -i locally atm... with be apt when puppeting
[15:07] <mhall119> well dpkg doesn't do dependency installation for you
[15:08] <mhall119> do you get the same error when using apt?
[15:08] <YamakasY> mhall119: can I use apt for a deb ?
[15:09] <ybon> what is the bzr command to apply a patch?
[15:10] <mhall119> YamakasY: if there is, I don't know it
[15:10] <mhall119> YamakasY: I usually use gdebi to do that, but I don't think it's a default installed program
[15:11] <YamakasY> mhall119: yeah I read a lot about gdebi... so I will do that
[15:14] <JoshStrobl> Hey mhall119, who on the Canonical / Ubuntu team oversees the Ubuntu Developer Portal?
[15:14] <mhall119> JoshStrobl: myself, dpm, jono and peterm
[15:14] <aquarius> nik90, aha, that's it, yes
[15:15] <JoshStrobl> mhall119: Then muahaha, bugs! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal/+bug/1286634 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal/+bug/1286651
[15:15] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1286634 in Ubuntu App Developer site "Installing the SDK page | Icon Incorrect" [Undecided,New]
[15:15] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1286651 in Ubuntu App Developer site "404 | Community | Developer.Ubuntu.Com" [Undecided,New]
[15:15] <YamakasY> mhall119: yeah thanks!
[15:15] <YamakasY> worked
[15:16] <mhall119> np YamakasY
[15:16] <mhall119> thanks JoshStrobl
[15:30] <ybon> that's quite funny that I'm unable to find a bazaar way to apply a patch
[15:32] <aquarius> can I have a Button with an ActivityIndicator in it?
[15:43] <JoshStrobl> Aaand another bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal/+bug/1286833
[15:43] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1286833 in Ubuntu App Developer site "UbuntuUI.Toolbar Example Is Not Valid HTML" [Undecided,New]
[15:44] <mhall119> ybon: bzr help patch
[15:47] <ybon> mhall119: No help could be found for 'patch'
[15:47] <ybon> but thanks :)
[15:47] <ybon> I've used patch command line anyway
[15:47] <ybon> was just expecting some "bzr patch" or "bzr apply" command
[15:50] <JoshStrobl> ybon do you have the .patch file?
[15:51] <ybon> JoshStrobl: you mean the file containing the diff to apply?
[15:52] <JoshStrobl> ybon: If you got a patch from upstream or something, you should just be able to merge it into your branch. If you made a patch, use the bzr send functionality, outputting it into a .patch file, which can later be patched with bzr patch
[15:53] <JoshStrobl> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.6/en/user-reference/send-help.html
[15:53] <ybon> My plan was to apply my own patch (from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1279933 )
[15:53] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1279933 in Ubuntu Calendar App "Event starting at 0:00 displayed also the day before in day view" [Undecided,New]
[15:53] <JoshStrobl> Literally the limitation of my knowledge. I'm more familiar with git
[15:53] <ybon> to be able to send a proper MR
[15:54] <ybon> well, same for me, I use git all the day long usually
[15:54] <ybon> I've used "patch -i file" at the end
[15:55] <ybon> (I've no "bzr patch" command it seems)
[15:56] <ybon> can someone run this test for me calendar_app.tests.test_yearview.TestYearView.test_show_next_years ? It's failing for me, just want to know if it's linked to my env or not before digging into it
[16:58] <aquarius> winner. First app for the showdown almost done, except for the bits I can't do because they're dependent on undocumented new APIs like the downloader or the content hub :)
[17:18] <aquarius> mhall119, ping: if you load developer.ubuntu.com over SSL, the CSS doesn't work.
[17:19] <aquarius> mhall119, also ping: are "web apps" (that is: pure web things which integrate into Unity) not supported any more? d.u.c doesn't seem to talk about them
[17:24] <aquarius> can I get some sort of a device name from QML? On a computer I'd get the hostname. This is to add to a U1 key so that when people review their list of U1 keys they can see which one applies to which device.
[17:57] <aquarius> daker, do you know about the Unity webapps stuff?
[17:58] <aquarius> ah!
[17:58] <aquarius> ignore me; I've just found it on the d.u.c site :)
[17:58] <daker> Ni :(
[17:58] <daker> No*
[17:59] <aquarius> it's OK. I couldn't find anything under Apps, but it's a whole section, Web, on its own :)
[20:51] <JoshStrobl> Are there more stock icons for use on Ubuntu Touch applications aside from the few available via ubuntu-html5-theme/0.1/ambiance/img
[20:53] <aquarius> A question I would also like to know the answer to.
[20:55] <aquarius> http://design.canonical.com/2013/12/the-new-ubuntu-icons/ suggests that there are a whole bunch coming
[20:55] <aquarius> but I don't think they're released yet
[20:55] <aquarius> I am assuming that when they get released, there'll be documentation naming them all.
[20:59] <JoshStrobl> Hmm, which they would've timed this Ubuntu App Showdown with the release of the necessary resources to make a well designed application that fits in with the Ubuntu HIG.
[21:00] <JoshStrobl> *wish they would've
[21:01] <aquarius> part of the goal of the showdown is to get people building apps precisely so it becomes apparent what's missing. :)
[21:02] <aquarius> for the moment, I'd copy icons that you want into your app
[21:02] <ybon> seems that console.log() is not outputing anymore on my QtCreator "Application Output" window since I've upgraded to Trusty. Any hint anyone? :)
[21:13] <nik90> ybon: let me guess calendar?
[21:13] <ybon> nik90: yep :)
[21:14] <nik90> ybon: it is an EDS issue -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/qtorganizer5-eds/+bug/1284587
[21:14] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1284587 in qtorganizer5-eds (Ubuntu) "crash when exiting the application" [Undecided,New]
[21:14] <nik90> ybon: it is causing calendar and clock to crash
[21:14] <nik90> ybon: and also block console output :(
[21:14] <ybon> gasp
[21:14] <nik90> ybon: luckily there is a fix https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/qtorganizer5-eds/fix-1284587/+merge/208791
[21:14] <nik90> ybon: should land hopefully soon
[21:15] <ybon> great :)
[21:15] <ybon> nik90: do you know any workaround?
[21:16] <ybon> I'm using a field to log for now :p
[21:16] <nik90> ybon: add a qml label and output stuff to it :P
[21:16] <nik90> ybon: trust me I am affected by it as much as you are :D
[21:17] <ybon> I trust (tahr) you :)
[21:18] <nik90> lol
[21:18] <nik90> ybon: how's trusty?
[21:18] <nik90> I myself made the upgrade 2 days ago
[21:18] <ybon> 'till now perfect :)
[21:18] <ybon> me too!
[21:18] <ybon> Friday night :)
[21:18] <nik90> ;)
[21:19] <ybon> I was on Berlin for work two days ago, and working for a client this week, so not time for UT sadly
[21:19] <nik90> oh man I am seeing some really cool apps being developed for this showdown...looking forward to it
[21:20] <ybon> like what? :)
[21:20] <ybon> (btw, I've seen that MapBox is yet joining the party, which is good)
[21:22] <nik90> Project Dashboard -> https://plus.google.com/117574309170420884411/posts/6dDpF2P64fw
[21:26] <ybon> woa :)
[21:30] <ybon> nik90: https://gist.github.com/yohanboniface/da9a397c22334cf93b8b :P
[21:30] <nik90> :)
[21:31] <nik90> I just found out that one can use qtcreator's device to easily enable/disable RW of your ubuntu touch device. No unnecessary terminal commands :D
[21:35] <aquarius> If I used Ubuntu SDK's option to "Install on device" (rather than just run on device), how do I uninstall the app?
[21:36] <popey> aquarius: does it show up if you ....
[21:36] <popey> adb shell
[21:36] <popey> sudo -u phablet -i
[21:36] <popey> click list | grep <name>
[21:37] <aquarius> popey, it does
[21:37] <popey> hold your finger down on it in the dash
[21:37] <popey> tap "uninstall"
[21:37] <aquarius> the Dash doesn't like showing a preview for it
[21:37] <aquarius> I tried that, of course :)
[21:37] <popey> sudo click unregister com.ubuntu.developer.foo 0.1
[21:37] <aquarius> I get "open" and "close" buttons. No uninstall
[21:37] <popey> after  sudo -u phablet -i
[21:38] <aquarius> what's phablet's password?
[21:38] <popey> phablet
[21:38] <aquarius> nice, thank you :)
[21:38] <popey> np
[21:38] <aquarius> how do I get the Dash to notice that it's gone?
[21:38] <popey> pkill unity8
[21:38] <popey> or reboot phone
[21:39] <popey> or search for the app
[21:39] <aquarius> ah, search, that would have worked.
[21:39] <aquarius> I don't like rebooting because it reboots into android and then I have to reboot again :)
[21:39] <aquarius> hm
[21:39] <aquarius> after pkilling unity8, how do I start it again? ;)
[21:39] <popey> it should autostart
[21:40] <aquarius> it has not
[21:40] <aquarius> I can still see unity on the screen
[21:40] <aquarius> but it's unresponsive...
[21:40] <popey> ⍨
[21:40]  * aquarius kills it agian
[21:40] <aquarius> aha!
[21:40] <aquarius> that worked :)
[21:40] <popey> kill it with fire
[21:42] <aquarius> winner, my icon works now. Cheers :)
[21:42] <aquarius> oh! haha
[21:42] <aquarius> there *is* an uninstall
[21:42] <aquarius> on the preview for installed-from-ubuntu-sdk apps
[21:42] <aquarius> it's just below the scroll fold.
[21:44] <nik90> aquarius: where is the uninstall again?
[21:44] <nik90> in qtcreator?
[21:44] <aquarius> nik90, there isn't one in Ubuntu SDK
[21:44] <aquarius> but you can do it on the device
[21:45] <nik90> popey: I am guessing you have seen Flappy Popey :P
[21:46] <ybon> aquarius: I was about to suggest you to check if you have scrolled down but I refrained ;)
[21:46] <nik90> aquarius: so you open the preview of the app and then scroll down to see the uninstall button is it?
[21:47] <nik90> because I had the uninstall issue as well :P
[21:48] <aquarius> nik90, yeah
[21:48] <nik90> aquarius: ah thnx..silly me
[21:48] <aquarius> the preview pane throws a big inappropriate wobbly saying ERROR because it can't find the app in the click store
[21:50] <popey> nik90: yeah ⍨
[21:51] <ybon> ah, popey while you are here, one question: I've worked on adding UT datepicker on the calendar, and then the "all day event" thing has been added, I'm merging now, but now I have three date fields
[21:51] <ybon> one for the day date
[21:51] <ybon> one for the start date
[21:51] <ybon> one for the end date
[21:52] <ybon> which seems a bit weird to me
[21:52] <ybon> so I guess the start/end ones are only time
[21:53] <ybon> and then one even cannot start on one day and ends in another day
[21:53] <ybon> Do I understand well?
[22:02] <JoshStrobl> anyone have a recommended save icon they use in Ubuntu Touch applications that fit with the current designs (http://design.canonical.com/2013/12/the-new-ubuntu-icons/) / HIG
[22:04] <popey> ybon: hey..
[22:05] <popey> ybon: that's odd.
[22:05] <aquarius> JoshStrobl, what are you saving? In general, things ought to be saved automatically without someone having to push a button, although your use case might be different
[22:06] <ybon> popey: yep
[22:06] <JoshStrobl> the individual will be saving a task. it shouldn't be automatic since the user may or may not want the task to be saved (say, if they go to create one but change their mind). The user will be prompted however on the back navigation, if they haven't saved a task, if they want to or not.
[22:06] <ybon> popey: have you tried the trunk?
[22:07] <JoshStrobl> While I agree that in most cases it should be automatic, this isn't one of them.
[22:07] <ybon> here is the commit that add "AddDay" event thing: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-calendar-dev/ubuntu-calendar-app/trunk/revision/208
[22:08] <aquarius> JoshStrobl, that may make it a bit awkward to find a Save icon, mind :)
[22:08] <JoshStrobl> yea :\
[22:09] <JoshStrobl> was thinking about just creating one in Inkscape
[22:09] <aquarius> $ locate symbolic | grep save
[22:09] <aquarius> shows a few possibilities
[22:10] <popey> ybon: no, but I will in the morning when I am more awake
[22:11] <ybon> okey
[22:11] <ybon> I will push a date + startTime + endTime version in the meantime (not sure to get time to work on this tomorrow)
[22:11] <JoshStrobl>  /usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/actions/document-save-symbolic.svg looks promising
[22:11] <ybon> and we will discuss further
[22:12] <aquarius> JoshStrobl, yeah -- there's a reasonable set of symbolic icons shipped with Ubuntu, which are generally under convenient licenses
[22:12] <ybon> JoshStrobl: maybe this can help: http://askubuntu.com/questions/289747/are-there-any-standard-icons-for-qml-app-development
[22:13] <JoshStrobl> ybon: Indeed it did!
[22:13] <aquarius> hey!
[22:13] <aquarius> those icons are available on the device?
[22:14]  * aquarius makes an annoyed face
[22:14] <aquarius> well stone me
[22:14] <aquarius> they are.
[22:15] <ybon> yes, I'm using them for OSMTouch
[22:15] <aquarius> gnaaaah
[22:15] <aquarius> are these guaranteed to hang around?
[22:15] <aquarius> if so, I think the SDK docs should include them?
[22:15] <ybon> no idea :)
[22:16] <aquarius> maybe mhall119 or popey know
[22:16] <ybon> I think in any case a common set of icons is a must have for the SDK
[22:18] <mhall119> aquarius: ybon: they should be in the devportal docs yes, if someone gave me an official list of them I can do that
[22:20] <ybon> mhall119: btw you are running the dev.ubuntu.com site, right?
[22:20] <mhall119> aquarius: a lot of our media on dev.u.c is references with a full URL, so it tries to load them over http even when you load the page over https, which the browser rightfully objects to
[22:20] <mhall119> ybon: I'm one of the people running it, yes
[22:20] <ybon> great :)
[22:20] <ybon> I've seen that you may switch it to Django?
[22:20] <mhall119> aquarius: http://developer.ubuntu.com/web/ is the "webapps" stuff
[22:21] <mhall119> ybon: we're evaluating options, since WP is showing it's limitations
[22:21] <ybon> ok
[22:21] <ybon> in case you go the Django way, if you need a hand, just ping, I do Django very often for years now :)
[22:21] <ybon> (And I really like it :) )
[22:22] <mhall119> ybon: we always need django devs in our community, and at least the /api/ part of developer.ubuntu.com is already django
[22:23] <mhall119> ybon: I can already use help on that, see http://mhall119.com/2014/02/ubuntu-api-website-teardown/ for lots of info about it
[22:24] <ybon> ah, nice, the bzr link is also included :)
[22:24] <ybon> I will have a look, and try to take time to help
[22:24] <mhall119> thanks tb
[22:24] <mhall119> ybon:
[22:25] <ybon> mhall119: what is your time zone? Just to know when it's best for me to take time and get you online for feedback :)
[22:33] <aquarius> mhall119, ya, I worked that out eventually, sorry :) webapps support isn't excellent, though...?
[22:33] <aquarius> based on my testing of stuff in preparation for talking about it tomorrow ;)
[22:34] <mhall119> ybon: US/Eastern
[22:34] <ybon> mhall119: ok :)
[22:34] <mhall119> UTC-500 currently
[22:34] <ybon> mhall119: btw, do you know Chris Glass?
[22:35] <mhall119> aquarius: it's always been flaky with the browser plugins, it should be better when it's using just our own browser on the desktop, but that's not working yet
[22:35] <aquarius> mhall119, yeah
[22:35] <mhall119> ybon: doesn't sound familiar, does he have an IRC nick?
[22:35] <ybon> Tribaal
[22:35] <mhall119> ah, that does sound familiar
[22:35] <mhall119> not sure from where/when though
[22:35] <ybon> is working at Canonical
[22:35] <ybon> and he is Djangoist :)
[22:35] <aquarius> mhall119, and the Unity javascript stuff doesn't work in the phone container either :(
[22:36] <ybon> and he is a friend of mines :)
[22:38] <mhall119> ybon: hmm, surprised I haven't worked with him on something yet then
[22:39] <ybon> yep, strange
[22:39] <ybon> mhall119: but he is more on Juju
[22:40] <mhall119> ah, that would explain it
[22:40] <aquarius> stupid network
[22:41] <mhall119> aquarius: I thought youwere just running away from me
[22:41] <mhall119> aquarius: none of the Unity APIs work on phone yet, it's not just the webapps part
[22:41] <aquarius> mhall119, so, sorry, I may have missed your response
[22:41] <aquarius> mhall119, yeah
[22:41] <aquarius> Tomorrow I shall talk about the theory
[22:42] <aquarius> and then explain the gaps that need to be filled in :)
[22:42] <mhall119> aquarius: as long as you document those gaps as work items or bugs so they can be followed up on
[22:42] <aquarius> mhall119, well, I can file bugs, certainly
[22:43] <aquarius> they'll be high-level bugs, though
[22:43] <aquarius> "Web app integration does not work in the web-app container on desktop"
[22:43] <aquarius> that sort of thing.
[23:44] <short_sam> I have a question for anyone that can help... Do I need a provider and service file in my app in order to allow authentication with google?
[23:46] <ybon> For everything related to authentication with Google, ask NSA
[23:46] <short_sam> Oh gosh haha nice but i'm just trying to figure out how authentication in ubuntu touch works... I don't get how account management works haha
[23:50] <short_sam> Anyone used google in their apps before? I could really use help if you have!


[15:51] <pavlushka> seen any device like this https://imgur.com/a/ushN9 ?
[15:51] <u-la-la> [ query - Album on Imgur ] - https://imgur.com


[00:01] <infinity> xnox: BRB, moving to France.
[00:02] <xnox> vorlon, ruby2.5 respun; will deal with perl after sleeping.
[05:22] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: pmdk-convert [amd64] (eoan-proposed/none) [1.5.1-1] (no packageset)
[05:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: pmdk-convert [arm64] (eoan-proposed/none) [1.5.1-1] (no packageset)
[07:01] <LocutusOfBorg> hello, question: freshplayerplugin can be built everywhere, but it Recommends adobe-flashplugin that is an amd64/i386 only package. Can it be built everywhere or should be restricted too? now it is restricted, but the debian package isn't...
[07:02] <LocutusOfBorg> (mostly all the delta of the package can be dropped because of "new upstream release" and "debian merged most changes")
[07:20] <vorlon>                                                                                autopkgtest [05:46:36]: ERROR: testbed failure: sent `copyup /tmp/autopkgtest.M6jL27/build.qOq/src/ /tmp/autopkgtest-work.umz0lxj2/out/tests-tree/', got `timeout', expected `ok...'
[07:20] <vorlon> that doesn't look so great in the ppc64el logs
[07:20] <vorlon> but why do we need to copy these trees back to the dispatcher anyway?
[07:26] <vorlon> .. in order to parse the debian/tests/control from the built tree, sigh
[09:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: openjdk-8 (eoan-proposed/primary) [8u212-b01-1ubuntu1]
[09:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openjdk-8 [source] (eoan-proposed) [8u212-b01-1ubuntu1]
[09:21] <doko> removing openjdk-8 wasn't a bright idea, when the Debian removal only requested removal of some binaries
[09:24] <cjwatson> the Debian removal *requested* that, but process-removals works off what was *actually* removed
[09:25] <cjwatson> (plus human intervention, but it can be easy to miss)
[09:25] <doko> can the binaries be restored in eoan?
[09:26] <doko> or else it's rebootstrapping
[09:26] <cjwatson> maybe if you'd asked before reuploading
[09:26] <doko> I can remove that one
[09:26] <cjwatson> how hard is rebootstrapping?
[09:27] <cjwatson> if it's not super-difficult it might be easier
[09:27] <doko> some ppa copies from older releases, then copying a clean binary build to eoan
[09:27] <doko> ok
[09:28] <cjwatson> mind you I suppose the worst case of remove and copy is that we might burn the -1ubuntu1 version number
[09:28] <cjwatson> perhaps we're better off doing that
[09:28] <doko> no problem to use a new version
[09:29] <cjwatson> ok, so I suggest removing the version just uploaded to eoan, then copy-package --from ubuntu --from-suite disco --to ubuntu --to-suite eoan-proposed -e 8u212-b01-1 --include-binaries openjdk-8
[09:30] <doko> so no ppa bootstrap?
[09:30] <cjwatson> nope
[09:30] <doko> ok
[09:30] <cjwatson> assuming there are no other sources that go with this
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lvm2 [amd64] (eoan-proposed/main) [2.03.02-2ubuntu1] (core)
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lvm2 [s390x] (eoan-proposed/main) [2.03.02-2ubuntu1] (core)
[09:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lvm2 [ppc64el] (eoan-proposed/main) [2.03.02-2ubuntu1] (core)
[09:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lvm2 [arm64] (eoan-proposed/main) [2.03.02-2ubuntu1] (core)
[09:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lvm2 [i386] (eoan-proposed/main) [2.03.02-2ubuntu1] (core)
[09:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: lvm2 [armhf] (eoan-proposed/main) [2.03.02-2ubuntu1] (core)
[09:51] <rbalint> rbasak, could you please approve console-setup srus? it fixes LP: #520546 that got quite hot recently
[09:51] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 520546 in console-setup (Ubuntu Disco) "Alt+KEY incorrectly behaves like Ctrl+Alt+KEY, and/or unwanted VT switch from Alt+Left/Right" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520546
[09:58] <rbasak> rbalint: just console-setup in Disco? Anywhere else?
[10:01] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe-edge [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/main) [5.0.0-13.14~18.04.2] (kernel)
[10:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: openjdk-8 (eoan-proposed/primary) [8u212-b01-1]
[10:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-hwe-edge [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [5.0.0-13.14~18.04.2] (kernel)
[10:06] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted openjdk-8 [sync] (eoan-proposed) [8u212-b01-1]
[10:26] <ddstreet> rbasak during your sru vanguard shift today, can you plz approve the qemu upload to xenial
[10:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: blender (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.79.b+dfsg0-1 => 2.79.b+dfsg0-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntustudio)
[10:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: blender (disco-proposed/universe) [2.79.b+dfsg0-6build1 => 2.79.b+dfsg0-6ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntustudio)
[10:27] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: blender (cosmic-proposed/universe) [2.79.b+dfsg0-4 => 2.79.b+dfsg0-4ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (ubuntustudio)
[10:30] <juliank> sil2100, rbasak: There's still an update-notifier upload in trusty's unapproved queue from last monday with the final fixes for the (somewhat trusty-specific) ESM messaging. I'd like to at least get this thing completed before the esm transition happens.
[10:30] <juliank> The changes compared to the one we have in proposed are minimal and covered by tests
[10:45] <rbalint> rbasak, no, down to bionic and i'm testing xenial right now
[10:53] <rbasak> rbalint: am I right in thinking that the workaround/fix is to reboot (or restart X), and that the SRU will only stop it breaking but not unbreak it?
[10:53] <ddstreet> bdmurray when you get in, your patches for lp #1794292 appear to have caused the reports to errors.ubuntu.com and stopped plymouth phasing, can you look at that and restart the phasing if you think it's ok
[10:53] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1794292 in plymouth (Ubuntu Cosmic) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in /sbin/plymouthd:11 in ply_renderer_set_handler_for_input_source -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_renderer_input -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_input -> ply_device_manager_deactivate_keyboards -> on_deactivate" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794292
[10:53] <rbalint> rbasak, it won't unbreak it, but prevents further pkg updates breaking it again
[10:53] <rbasak> rbalint: if so I might adjust the bug to stop a load of affected people "failing" SRU verification because the update didn't fix it.
[10:54] <rbasak> OK, thanks.
[10:54] <rbalint> rbasak, i did not think about this potential confusion, thanks!
[10:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted console-setup [source] (disco-proposed) [1.178ubuntu12.1]
[10:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted console-setup [source] (cosmic-proposed) [1.178ubuntu9.2]
[11:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted console-setup [source] (bionic-proposed) [1.178ubuntu2.9]
[11:01] <rbasak> rbalint: accepted  d/c/b; ping me please when you have tested and uploaded x?
[11:06] <rbasak> rbalint: are all the bug tasks for the other source packages Invalid now?
[11:10] <rbalint> rbasak, thanks! i believe others are invalid, except for kbd
[11:12] <rbalint> rbasak, i'm marking them
[11:23] <rbasak> Thanks!
[12:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: openvpn (cosmic-proposed/main) [2.4.6-1ubuntu2 => 2.4.6-1ubuntu2.1] (ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
[12:56] <sil2100> Laney: hey! britney's running on snakefruit, right? You have access there?
[12:56] <Laney> sil2100: tak
[12:57] <sil2100> Laney: smb noticed that there seem to be no excuses updates for bionic and xenial since last week
[12:57] <sil2100> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/bionic/ <- generated on the 16th
[12:57] <sil2100> (same for xenial)
[12:58] <Laney> how intriguing
[12:58]  * sil2100 looks for logs
[12:58] <Laney> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/bionic/2019-04-24/
[12:58] <sil2100> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/bionic/2019-04-24/12:57:12.log
[12:58] <sil2100> Ouch
[12:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: openvpn (bionic-proposed/main) [2.4.4-2ubuntu1.1 => 2.4.4-2ubuntu1.2] (ubuntu-server)
[12:59] <sil2100> First time I see britney tracebacking ;)
[12:59] <Laney> vot does it mean
[13:00] <smb> she's not amused
[13:00] <sil2100> Laney: ok, I can look into this in detail after our sprint-load meeting, so if you're busy - don't worry about it
[13:00]  * sil2100 should have checked the logs first, thought that maybe it was just not running at all on snakefruit
[13:00] <Laney> I'm blaming https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/britney1-ubuntu/revision/314
[13:01]  * sil2100 shrugz
[13:01] <sil2100> britney1
[13:01]  * sil2100 knows nothing of britney1 so he slowly backs off
[13:02] <sil2100> ;)
[13:07] <Laney> infinity: ^- what was that commit about?
[13:07] <infinity> Laney: Made disco happy.  I'm puzzling over why it made the others grumpy. :/
[13:08] <Laney> Guessing you can't have a FauxPackage when there's a nonFauxPackage
[13:08] <infinity> (also, why isn't FauxPackages per suite?)
[13:08] <Laney> Might want per series fauxies
[13:14] <sil2100> It's a bit scary, since this means we had no bionic and xenial autopkgtests ran for any of the SRUs in the last week
[13:15] <infinity> That's only scary if the people processing those SRUs ignored that tests were in progress.
[13:15] <sil2100> The good news is that today's the '7th day' from the last run, so yeah
[13:15] <infinity> Or, rather, ignored that the packages weren't in excuses at all.
[13:16] <sil2100> infinity: the pending-sru report doesn't mention running tests I think, and I doubt anyone from the SRU team looks at the excuses page at all - we rely on the pending report lisitng all the needed info
[13:16] <sil2100> Which is why no one noticed it up until today, ugh!
[13:17] <infinity> Ahh well, it's not the end of the world.
[13:17] <sil2100> Oh well, probably we need to improve the process to at least check excuses, and maybe add some feedback to the report
[13:17] <sil2100> But as said, anyway, luckily only now the aging period from last run has passed so yeah ;)
[13:17] <infinity> I'll just comment that out for now, and I think I can fix fauxpackages to only create an entry if the package doesn't exist.
[13:17] <infinity> So we don't get two
[13:17] <sil2100> infinity: ok, thanks o/
[13:20] <infinity> Cowboyed for now.  Will think harder about it tomorrow.
[13:20] <infinity> I think my proposed fix should be vaguely trivialish.
[13:21] <ddstreet> rbasak sil2100 if either of you could approve the qemu upload for xenial, that would be super duper awesome
[13:26] <rbasak> sil2100: do you have an opinion on bug 1804513 please? I'm not sure if the major version bump as documented in the bug is acceptable as-is, because it doesn't seem to look at any behaviour breaks for existing users. Do you read it differently?
[13:26] <ubot5`> bug 1804513 in mixxx (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Cosmic: Mixxx 2.1.3 is not stable with Qt5" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1804513
[13:27] <rbasak> ddstreet: any reason this needs to be prioritised over old things in the queue please?
[13:27] <ddstreet> rbasak it works around a qemu crash during normal operation, in use by a customer via the trusty-mitaka UCA repo
[13:28] <ddstreet> so with trusty going ESM tomorrow, we'd like to get it into X asap so it can make it into trusty-mitaka asap as well; there is a lot of uncertainty around the details of trusty-mitaka in ESM
[13:28] <ddstreet> waiting in the sru upload queue doesn't help the uncertainty
[13:34] <rbasak> Binary files /tmp/tmpzQ26Bn/QfP_vgKhtx/update-notifier-0.154.1ubuntu4/data/__pycache__/package_data_downloader.cpython-37.pyc and /tmp/tmpzQ26Bn/cHQOFmTiDK/update-notifier-0.154.1ubuntu5/data/__pycache__/package_data_downloader.cpython-37.pyc differ
[13:34] <rbasak> juliank: ^ should that be in the source package at all?
[13:35] <rbasak> tests/__pycache__/apt_check.cpython-37.pyc also
[13:35] <juliank> rbasak: not really, which is why it went away, and hence differs
[13:35] <rbasak> Oh. OK :)
[13:36] <juliank> diff stupid
[13:36]  * rbasak doesn't usually use the Launchpad diffs, but git-ubuntu is broken :-/
[13:36] <juliank> It should show "file deleted" imo
[13:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted update-notifier [source] (trusty-proposed) [0.154.1ubuntu5]
[13:56] <rbasak> ddstreet: thank you for the well written up bug - that saved me from asking a bunch of questions :)
[13:56] <rbasak> ddstreet: have you had a code review from anyone on your patch?
[13:57] <smb> infinity, hm, I am not sure that cowboy is too successful
[13:57] <ddstreet> cpaelzer has https://code.launchpad.net/~ddstreet/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+git/qemu/+merge/366392
[13:57] <rbasak> Perfect!
[13:58] <rbasak> Sorry I missed the link from the bug
[13:59] <Laney> smb: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/bionic/2019-04-24/13:56:21.log <- looks like it's working
[14:00] <smb> Laney, ok, when I looked the last log was the one before
[14:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted qemu [source] (xenial-proposed) [1:2.5+dfsg-5ubuntu10.37]
[14:11] <sil2100> rbasak: let me take a look
[14:12] <sil2100> ddstreet: I see Robie is already reviewing it, but in case he's done with his shift, I can pick it up then ;)
[14:12] <rbasak> I accepted qemu/xenial ^
[14:13] <rbasak> sil2100: consider me done with my shift now please, if you want to take any. I'd like to get git-ubuntu fixed. It makes my SRU shifts easier when it's working :)
[14:27] <sil2100> \o/
[14:27] <sil2100> rbasak: thanks for all the reviews today!
[14:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: freelan (disco-proposed/universe) [2.0-8ubuntu2 => 2.0-8ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[14:49] <xnox> sil2100, please reject freelan above..... wrong suite, it's meant for eoan
[14:50] <sil2100> ACK
[14:51] <sil2100> Done
[14:52] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: rejected freelan [source] (disco-proposed) [2.0-8ubuntu3]
[15:14] <tdaitx> doko: should we get openjdk-8 back into disco? I am preparing the security update, so this would be the right time to do it
[15:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python-glance-store (cosmic-proposed/main) [0.26.1-0ubuntu2 => 0.26.1-0ubuntu2.1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[15:16] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: python-glance-store (disco-proposed/main) [0.28.0-0ubuntu1 => 0.28.0-0ubuntu1.1] (openstack, ubuntu-server)
[15:19] <bdmurray> sil2100: do you have a moment?
[15:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: knockd (disco-proposed/universe) [0.7-1ubuntu2 => 0.7-1ubuntu2.1] (no packageset)
[15:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: knockd (cosmic-proposed/universe) [0.7-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 0.7-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (no packageset)
[15:32] <sil2100> bdmurray: what's up?
[15:32] <vorlon> Laney: don't know if you saw my late-night blathering, but in digging into the ppc64el queue I noticed two things; 1) data transfer between the ppc64el runners and the autopkgtest runners looks like it might be slower than for other archs (why?), and 2) this is noticeable because we are transferring multiple GB of built source trees from runner to host just to inspect the final debian/tests/
[15:32] <vorlon> directory.  do you know any reason we shouldn't make runner/autopkgtest:process_actions() pull down *just* the debian/tests directory?
[15:34] <bdmurray> sil2100: the phased update of plymouth has stopped because of some crashes and I believe they are legitimate but it crashes a lot less now than it used too...
[15:34] <Laney> vorlon: no idea why it would be slower than anything else in the same region
[15:34] <Laney> as for (2), not offhand, but please discuss with elbrus
[15:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: knockd (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.7-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> => 0.7-1ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>] (no packageset)
[15:36] <bdmurray> sil2100: the crash we are fixing happens 1k times per day while the new crashes happen a couple of times per day (but to be fair the new plymouth is only at 10% phasing). But it's also fixed in disco with similarly low counts.
[15:37] <bdmurray> sil2100: so I'm inclined to let it phase
[15:46] <bdmurray> s/let/make/
[15:48] <sil2100> bdmurray: if it's the same crash, I'd say let's make it moving
[15:54] <bdmurray> sil2100: they are new crashes https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/bec9336475f855ea20928e187ea65b281531514a, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/197cb74e56a0583e15b57286f3dae38236225acf, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/3106debb8d0e370fe4f44e3c76ed5ca230ea0eb7
[15:58] <teward> vorlon: still working on the python things or can I borrow you for a NEW review again?
[15:58] <teward> s/python/other SRU/
[16:00] <teward> or maybe even sil2100?  if either of you have a few minutes that is.
[16:05] <sil2100> teward: eek, would love to, but I still have a few things to finish before my EOD sadly :<
[16:06] <sil2100> teward: can you poke me tomorrow in case Steve or others have no time?
[16:07] <teward> sil2100: yep, sure.  I poked vorlon yesterday but vorlon was inundated wtih the OpenSSL SRU and related SRUs :p
[16:08] <vorlon> I'm downloading now for inspection
[16:09] <sil2100> bdmurray: hm, those look similar in taste to the ones fixed by the SRU, at least that's the feeling I get
[16:12] <bdmurray> sil2100: so where does that leave us?
[16:13] <teward> ah cool thanks vorlon
[16:21] <vorlon> Laney: ok I found the answer to my question, we need to copy the entire tree back down because we launch a separate testbed for the tests than for the package build in the Restrictions: needs-build case
[16:22] <sil2100> bdmurray: I'd say let's override it - it feels to me like an improvement from the previous state, and I don't see new manual bug reports being filled for issues like this
[16:23] <sil2100> bdmurray: let's let it phase and monitor if the number doesn't grow to worrying levels
[16:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted nginx [amd64] (eoan-proposed) [1.15.12-0ubuntu1]
[16:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted nginx [armhf] (eoan-proposed) [1.15.12-0ubuntu1]
[16:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted nginx [ppc64el] (eoan-proposed) [1.15.12-0ubuntu1]
[16:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted nginx [arm64] (eoan-proposed) [1.15.12-0ubuntu1]
[16:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted nginx [s390x] (eoan-proposed) [1.15.12-0ubuntu1]
[16:23] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted nginx [i386] (eoan-proposed) [1.15.12-0ubuntu1]
[16:24] <Laney> vorlon: ah right, but this happens in other cases where it might not be needed too?
[16:24] <Laney> OTOH the most problematic tests (KDE) are all build-needed
[16:24] <vorlon> Laney: no, the cases where I'm currently seeing the timeouts are exactly the KDE packages
[16:24] <vorlon> if build is not needed, it doesn't need to stream the tree around an extra time
[16:24] <teward> vorlon: i'm assuming you did the acceptance on the new NGINX plugin.  Thank you kindly!
[16:25] <teward> and if it wasn't you thanks to whomever did.
[16:25] <vorlon> anyway, going to do some rough network benchmarking now
[16:25] <vorlon> teward: yeah that was me, y/w
[16:25] <Laney> if there's a network problem it'd be good to bring that up with IS folks
[16:25] <vorlon> yep
[16:26] <Laney> there are multiple copies of openvswitch/neutron/... - it's possible those getting swamped could cause problems like this
[16:26] <Laney> and probably different physical hardware too
[16:27] <Laney> but also, general :( at KDE being at the middle of a problem again
[16:50] <bdmurray> sil2100: will do, thanks for the input
[17:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted kpatch [source] (bionic-proposed) [0.5.0-0ubuntu1.1]
[17:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted dm-writeboost [source] (bionic-proposed) [2.2.8-1ubuntu3~18.04.2]
[17:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted xtables-addons [source] (bionic-proposed) [3.0-0.1ubuntu2]
[17:56] <jdstrand> Odd_Bloke: hey, curious on the timeframe of ubuntu-daily:eoan/amd64? I'm told that CPC handles those and currently the docker.io autopkgtest is failing because 'lxc launch ubuntu-daily:eoan/amd64 docker' fails
[17:56] <jdstrand> Odd_Bloke: actually, not just amd64, whatever docker.io needs
[17:57] <Odd_Bloke> jdstrand: I'm no longer on CPC, so that's rcj and fginther's problem. :)
[17:58] <jdstrand> Odd_Bloke: ah, thanks for the point and I hope you are enjoying your new role :)
[17:59] <Odd_Bloke> :)
[17:59] <jdstrand> pointer*
[18:01] <vorlon> Laney: so while I work through the question of whether there are network bottlenecks, what should we do about the timeouts themselves?  Do you know if we ever use that timeout to catch dead runners, or is it just getting in our way by being too low?
[18:02] <vorlon> and I still have trouble diagnosing these things with any accuracy, but it looks to me like hitting the timeout may be leaving the runners in some kind of limbo state besides
[18:03] <fginther> jdstrand, getting eoan images built and published is our current priority. I do expect these before end of week
[18:03] <jdstrand> fginther: ack, thanks!
[18:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: linux-signed-oem-osp1 [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [5.0.0-1004.5] (no packageset)
[18:48] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: openvpn (xenial-proposed/main) [2.3.10-1ubuntu2.1 => 2.3.10-1ubuntu2.2] (ubuntu-server)
[20:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: metaphlan2 (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.7.5-1 => 2.7.5-1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[20:22] <teward> was there a temporary network issue with the autopkgtests?
[20:36] <vorlon> teward: what specifically are you seeing?
[20:36] <teward> vorlon: "Failed to resolve ftpmaster.internal" errors in some autopkgtests triggered by the nginx upload
[20:36] <vorlon> the autopkgtest infra is currently definitely network constrained because of all the KDE packages' built trees that are being streamed back and forth and timing out
[20:36] <vorlon> teward: for which archs?
[20:37] <teward> armhf
[20:37] <teward> and only 3 of the tests
[20:37] <vorlon> yeah
[20:37] <vorlon> that's an ongoing issue that we thought was fixed once then recurred
[20:37] <teward> ack
[20:39] <teward> vorlon: so i assume then the reruns I just queued for the same tests that regressed may or may not succeed on next-run
[20:39] <teward> do we just hand-wave those or do we wait for the infra to settle?
[22:09] <teward> vorlon: just as an FYI, looks like my rerunning those tests reran them with the original network issue fixed, and the tests passed as they usually did
[22:09] <teward> so guess I don't have to worry then :)
[22:16] <teward> (it's still running the other autopkgtests, but the regressing/failing ones there I wanted to at least get handled heh)
[23:39] <vorlon> teward: it's ongoing and intermittent, yeah


[00:34] <imbrandon> directhex, anything i can help with on the mono/u1ms bindings ?
[00:34] <imbrandon> i've got time over the next few days to throw at it if needed
[02:06] <lfaraone> If a package is in Debian NEW, can I request a motu-release ACK (for a FFE) for it at that point, or do I still need to go through REVU? (NEW seems to have several weeks of backlog)
[02:10] <persia> lfaraone: Only ftpmasters can pull from NEW, so it needs to go somewhere.
[02:10] <lfaraone> persia: well, it'd also be in mentors.
[02:10] <lifeless> NEW is stalled
[02:10] <persia> lfaraone: But that a package is in NEW counts as one of two developer advocations, in my book.
[02:11] <lfaraone> persia: (and I've had packages synced from NEW before freezes before :) )
[02:11] <persia> Where is bdefreese when one needs him :)
[02:11] <persia> lfaraone: You've never had a package synched from NEW (although it may have appeared that way).
[02:12] <persia> The set of people who can see NEW doesn't happen to include any of the set of people that can perform a sync.
[02:12] <lifeless> syncing from NEW would be bad
[02:13] <persia> It's *not* possible.
[02:13] <persia> Anyway, back to the matter at hand.
[02:13] <persia> There exists a package that was reviewed/advocated by a Debian Developer.
[02:13] <persia> Just needs some Ubuntu Developer to advocate and upload it.
[02:14] <persia> Needs an FFe, same as any new package.
[02:14] <lfaraone> persia: okay, thanks.
[02:14] <persia> If it's already on mentors, no need to separately upload to REVU.  mentors works fine for review.
[02:22] <lfaraone> persia: would you have a chance to advocate http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=groundcontrol then? :)
[02:22] <lfaraone> (so I can file for a FFe)
[02:24] <persia> lfaraone: File for the FFe first.  Subscribe me.  I've reviewed that package enough times before that I'm confident I'll be advocating and uploading with the FFe approved.
[02:34] <Linux000> I am trying to debug a python based application that calls multiple other python files, I was wondering if there was a way to view what python file is calling a certain definition in another file?
[02:34] <persia> Linux000: Do you have a crash, or just undesireable behaviour?
[02:37] <Linux000> The app still runs, but only in a loop, i.e. I run the app, it should launch a graphical window, however it prints an error out to the log without stopping, not sure what to call it
[02:37] <persia> That's a loop :)
[02:37] <lfaraone> persia: done, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/486807
[02:37]  * persia isn't good at debugging loops
[02:38] <persia> lfaraone: Cool.  OI've put it on my TODO list.  When it gets ubuntu-release feedback, I'll do something more complicated.
[02:38] <Linux000> Okay, I found what file is causing the loop(I think) I just need to know what process is calling it
[02:39] <persia> Check with the folk in #ubuntu-bugs : they tend to have expertise in debugging.  I don't happen to know the python equivalent of `set -x`
[02:40] <lifeless> there isn't one
[02:40] <lifeless> however
[02:40] <lfaraone> persia: there isn't one, you can only use pdb.
[02:40] <lifeless> python -m pdb <pythonscript>
[02:40] <persia> Linux000: ^^
[02:40] <lifeless> will run in pdb, and when it breaks leave you in jit debugging mode
[02:40] <Linux000> lifeless: Thanks
[03:32] <mattva01> just a quick question, having an issue with cdbs's debhelper.mk calling dh_installinfo and having it catch a metadata containing file with a .info extension. Is there anyway to alter or turn off this behavior?
[03:38] <mattva01> just a quick question, having an issue with cdbs's debhelper.mk calling dh_installinfo and having it catch a metadata containing file with a .info extension. Is there anyway to alter or turn off this behavior?
[03:38] <mattva01> oops
[04:01] <jayvee> $ virsh -c qemu:///system start CentOS
[04:01] <jayvee> error: Failed to start domain CentOS
[04:01] <jayvee> error: internal error Unable to find cgroup for CentOS
[04:02] <jayvee> This was working yesterday. KVM starts fine standalone, too. Any ideas?
[04:03] <jayvee> oops, thought I was on #ubuntu-server — sorry about that
[04:13] <zooko> Greetings, people of #ubuntu-motu!
[04:21] <zooko> Could someone please test this package: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tahoe-lafs/+bug/529350
[04:29] <jayvee> greetings zooko
[04:29] <zooko> jayvee: Hi there
[05:04] <jayvee> zooko, do you run ubuntu?
[05:07] <zooko> jayvee: yes, but I don't have an ubuntu machine to hand at the moment.
[05:07] <jayvee> zooko, can I provide an ubuntu vm for you to test in?
[05:08] <jayvee> I'd do more testing, except I have no idea how to work this software
[05:10] <zooko> jayvee: it is easy! http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe-lafs/trunk/docs/running.html
[05:10] <zooko> :-)
[05:10] <zooko> Oh wait, somebody has added a lot of words to that page.
[05:10] <jayvee> I'm reading that, and not getting very far
[05:11] <zooko> Why not?
[05:11] <zooko> Sounds like I need to file a bug report on that page. :_)
[05:13] <jayvee> oh, just the feedback I'm getting is not very descriptive
[05:13] <jayvee> "introducer node probably started"
[05:14] <jayvee> I'm basically expecting to see "tahoe successfully started, browse to this_url to view contents"
[05:14] <jayvee> but maybe I'm just a simpleton
[05:16] <jayvee> 'tahoe run' blocks with no feedback. I presume that's intentional (no news is good news), but a little disconcerting to someone who has never used it before.
[05:18] <jayvee> I ran 'tahoe start .' and 'tahoe run', and yet nothing is listening on port 3456.
[05:19] <jayvee> the documentation (using.html) says that should be the case
[05:20] <zooko> Could you check logs/twistd.log
[05:24] <zooko> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/71#comment:17
[05:36] <jayvee> nevow.appserver.NevowSite starting on 3456
[05:37] <jayvee> should be working :/
[05:37] <jayvee> ah, I think I found the problem
[05:37] <jayvee> my localhost is only set to ::1 /etc/hosts
[05:37] <jayvee> and tahoe only binds to <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:38] <jayvee> so of course browsing to localhost:3456 won't work
[05:38] <zooko> jayvee aha! Interesting. Thanks. Will ticket that.
[05:38] <jayvee> I think it stems from the fact that you're using twisted
[05:39] <jayvee> which doesn't support ipv6
[05:39] <zooko> We can control what we bind to.
[05:39] <jayvee> nope, ::1 is ipv6
[05:39] <zooko> I prefer <IP_ADDRESS> instead of localhost because I've heard reports of the
[05:39] <zooko> Hm.
[05:39] <jayvee> you can't bind to it, as you need an AF_INET6 socket, not AF_INET socket
[05:39] <jayvee> and twisted doesn't support that
[05:39] <jayvee> which is silly, because ipv4 is going to get real real small in the very near future
[05:40] <jayvee> not so much for the localhost issue, but the inter-node connectivity
[05:40] <ScottK> For a reasonably large value of near, sure.
[05:40] <zooko> I see. So what should we do? Perhaps you could open the ticket? On http://tahoe-lafs.org . Just say that you couldn't connect to the wui-wapi port when following the instructions due to this issue.
[05:40] <jayvee> from what I read, tahoe needs an open port on a public IP address on a server node
[05:41] <jayvee> with the ipv4 apocalypse, NATs will make that difficult if not impossible to acheive
[05:41] <zooko> There are a few different issues here.
[05:41] <jayvee> yeah, sorry for confusing this
[05:42] <zooko> The very narrow one, which is not currently ticketed and which I would appreciate you ticketing, is that you got this silent failure to connect your wui-wapi client to the web gateway on port 3456.
[05:42] <zooko> Open that ticket, and maybe we can make it fail louder, or something. At the very least we can close it "wontfix" and then we'll have a ticket to point to.
[05:42] <jayvee> actually, looks like I misunderstood the documentation
[05:42] <jayvee> tahoe run and tahoe start are the same
[05:42] <zooko> Or also we could fix it by twisted learning IPv6...
[05:42] <jayvee> one runs as a daemon, one does not
[05:42] <jayvee> never seen that behaviour before
[05:43] <jayvee> I always see -d or --fork used for those sorts of options
[05:43] <jayvee> or --daemon
[05:43] <zooko> Hm...
[05:43] <jayvee> but that's just a usability issue
[05:43] <zooko> "just" a usability issue, indeed. :-)
[05:44] <jayvee> so I accidentally pressed tab, started typing, and then xchat quit this channel
[05:44] <jayvee> that's an xchat usability issue ;)
[05:44] <zooko> I think that one is *not* exactly http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/71 but deserves a new ticket of its own which links to http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/71 .
[05:46] <zooko> Hm... maybe it is this: http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/355
[05:46] <jayvee> so am I right in guessing that 'tahoe start' and 'tahoe start $HOME/.tahoe' are synonymous?
[05:48] <ajmitch>
[05:53] <jayvee> zooko, as a point of comparison, this is what upstart gives me
[05:53] <jayvee> $ sudo start mythtv-backend
[05:53] <jayvee> mythtv-backend start/running, process 17060
[05:53] <jayvee> much more satisfying. even printing the PID makes me much more confident.
[06:00] <zooko> jayvee: you are right in so guessing. Also that is stated in the --help usage text isn't it?
[06:01] <jayvee> nope
[06:01] <zooko> re: PID: duly noted: http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/71#comment:20
[06:02] <jayvee> one other thing is that there is no tahoe man page
[06:02] <jayvee> I take it none has been written upstream?
[06:02] <jayvee> surprised that wasn't picked up by lintian
[06:03] <jayvee> lintian normally warns when there is no man page
[06:08] <zooko> Okay I think I have ticketed all of your observations so far except:
[06:08] <zooko> 1. no man page
[06:09] <zooko> 2. the problem you had with connecting over localhost because you use IPv6
[06:09] <zooko> 3. No doc (that you could find...) saying that tahoe start basedir defaults to $HOME/.tahoe
[06:10] <zooko> 4. You were confused by "tahoe run" vs. "tahoe start" and expected a -d or --fork or --daemon
[06:11] <zooko> I will ticket #1 and #3 because I think I understand them well enough. Will you please ticket #2 and #4?
[06:12] <zooko> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/984# no man page
[06:13] <zooko> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/985# tahoe start --help should mention that --basedir defaults to $HOME/.tahoe
[06:23] <jayvee> okay, sure
[06:25] <jayvee> hmm, also, I presumed 'tahoe start .' wasn't synonymous with 'tahoe start -C .'
[06:25] <jayvee> maybe I'm just completely of the wrong mindset to be using this program :)
[06:26] <jayvee> zooko, #2 isn't a problem with tahoe
[06:26] <jayvee> it was a problem on my end — my fault
[06:26] <jayvee> not having localhost also resolve to <IP_ADDRESS> is a bad idea
[06:26] <jayvee> I think I did it at the time to see how much it would break things, and forgot about it
[06:27] <jayvee> what #2 should be is "tahoe-lafs should support IPv6", but given that you're handcuffed by twisted, there is nothing you can do about it
[06:27] <jayvee> you'll have to either wait until twisted supports ipv6, or ditch twisted altogether (which I can't see happening)
[06:40] <zooko> jayvee: that's http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/867 (use ipv6)
[06:40] <jayvee> aha
[06:41] <zooko> jayvee: okay, forget about #2 then.
[06:42] <zooko> Now let's see... That thing about "tahoe start ." vs. "tahoe start -C ". I think that's http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/772 .
[06:43] <zooko> Could you please add a note to that ticket saying that you experienced this issue?
[06:43] <zooko> It looks like David-Sarah assigned it to themselves and put it into the v1.7.0 milestone already, but your comment could help.
[06:43] <zooko> Okay I think I'm just waiting for you to open a ticket for #4 and then I'm done for tonight. :-)
[06:44] <zooko> Thank you very much for the usability testing!
[06:44] <jayvee> unintentional usability testing ;)
[06:45] <jayvee> writing it now
[06:46] <zooko> I suppose that's the best kind. ;-)
[06:48] <jayvee> zooko, what milestone?
[06:48] <jayvee> actually, I'll leave it 'undecided'
[06:50] <zooko> Yeah
[06:50] <zooko> Tag it "usability" and David-Sarah will be sure to notice it. ;-)
[06:50] <jayvee> zooko, http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/986
[06:51] <jayvee> I haven't seen any problems that I wouldn't expect to be as a result of packaging so far
[06:51] <jayvee> so from my perspective, it's no worse off than 1.6.0 in terms of regressions
[06:52] <jayvee> of couse, I still haven't actually got it working with the public grid yet
[06:52] <jayvee> so my testing isn't exactly thorough so far
[06:53] <jayvee> zooko, I have the introducer set in .tahoe/tahoe.cfg, but "Connected to introducer?: no"
[06:53] <zooko> Heh heh Here is a useful page for testing:
[06:53] <zooko> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/TestGrid
[06:53] <jayvee> zooko, yeah, on that
[06:53] <zooko> You can take those hyperlinks and put your host and port num in and see if you can see each of those kinds of file.
[06:54] <zooko> jayvee: okay, didn't connect to introducer. You put into your .cfg something like "introducer.furl = pb://todjw7qkb4dgq4fkeo7cqydcu5vneioh@tahoecs2.allmydata.com:52106/introducer" ?
[06:54] <jayvee> yes
[06:55] <jayvee> except the pb:// URL in quotes
[06:55] <zooko> I think that's wrong.
[06:55] <jayvee> ah
[06:55] <jayvee> I presumed it was Python syntax
[06:55] <zooko> Check the twistd.log and the logs/incidents
[06:55] <zooko> to see if it was trying to tell you that it was wrong.
[06:55] <jayvee> based on the 'None' keyword that was there by default
[06:55] <zooko> Man you are really good at this accidental usability testing.
[06:55] <jayvee> aha, "Connected to introducer?: yes" now
[06:56] <jayvee> None is a reserved word in Python, so I replaced it with equally valid Python syntax :)
[06:56] <zooko> Oh look someone beat you to it: http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/649 (Validation of configuration settings)
[06:56] <zooko> ndurner
[06:57] <jayvee> heh
[06:57] <zooko> Could you please find the error in logs/incidents?
[06:57] <zooko> Check the timestamps of the files. I guess the most recent one.
[06:57] <zooko> Unless you already discovered a new bug. :-)
[06:58] <zooko> Then run "flogtool dump $LOGFILENAME | less", then see if there is a stack trace saying that it couldn't parse the config file.
[06:59] <jayvee>    File "/home/amduser/trees/tahoe/support/lib/python2.5/site-packages/foolscap-0.4.2-py2.5.egg/foolscap/pb.py", line 741, in getReferenceForName
[06:59] <jayvee>      raise KeyError("unable to find reference for name '%s'" % (name,))
[06:59] <jayvee>  exceptions.KeyError: 'unable to find reference for name \'introducer"\''
[06:59] <zooko> Please cut and paste the stack trace and any other such relevant stuff into http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/649
[06:59] <zooko> Thank you very much!
[07:00] <zooko> I'll tag that ticket as "usability".
[07:02] <jayvee> zooko, done
[07:05] <jayvee> zooko, what does "To do that you'll need to know which port tahoe is listening on as, by default, it listens on an arbitrary port number." mean?
[07:05] <jayvee> arbitrary means "explicitly set" in my mind
[07:05] <zooko> Is this doc about the port forwarding?
[07:05] <jayvee> so isn't that the exact opposite meaning of what you want?
[07:05] <zooko> It listens on a randomly-selected port number by default.
[07:05] <jayvee> yeah, docs/running.html
[07:05] <jayvee> ah, that's the exact opposite of arbitrary
[07:06] <zooko> But, then it writes it down into its tahoe.cfg so that it will listen on the same one next time
[07:06] <jayvee> you *want* an arbitrary port for port forwarding
[07:06] <jayvee> so in the docs, s/arbitrary/random/
[07:06] <zooko> Unless I am misremembering, the first time you run it, it is random (by your definition), and then the second time it is arbitrary.
[07:06] <jayvee> actually, I got no such port written down in the config. my tahoe.cfg is untouched. :)
[07:06] <zooko> Oh. Hm.
[07:07] <jayvee> actually
[07:07] <zooko> Okay, yeah, you are right.
[07:07] <jayvee> .tahoe/client-port
[07:07] <jayvee> is 60181. is that it?
[07:07] <zooko> Aha! Cool. Sounds right.
[07:07] <zooko> So the docs need to explain about that file. Maybe docs/configuration.txt already does.
[07:07] <jayvee> yeah, it kinda gives the wrong impression
[07:08] <jayvee> there's no harm in saying that on first run it picks a random port and stores it in a file called client.port
[07:08] <jayvee> :)
[07:09] <jayvee> anyways, I'd better let you get to bed, zooko
[07:12] <zooko> You have done a fine job of accidental usability testing. You're still going to ticket your #4 issue, right?
[07:13] <zooko> Could you type up a sentence of English which would go in the appropriate spot to explain that it picks a random port and stores it in that file? You can open a ticket, attach it to some extant ticket, mail it to me, or mail it to tahoe-dev. I'm too sleepy to know which.
[07:14] <zooko> Oh I see you already did #4. Thanks!
[07:14] <jayvee> yeah
[07:14] <jayvee> oops, I forgot to paste you the URL
[07:15] <jayvee> I actually have it in my clipboard still
[07:18] <zooko> Okay, I fall asleep now! Thanks a lot!
[07:19] <jayvee> 'night, zooko
[07:32] <wzssyqa> hi,i am dh $@,and $@ is a command seq,but what is it?
[07:35] <Rhonda> wzssyqa: Can you reword your question? I don't understand it …
[07:35] <wzssyqa> Rhonda: in default rules,there is dh $@,what is it?
[07:36] <Rhonda> That is makefile magic for having every target served by debhelper.
[07:36] <StevenK> $@ expands to the current target name
[07:36] <wzssyqa> o,thanks
[07:37] <wzssyqa> the man dh says that is is a command seq
[07:38] <Rhonda> People tend to disagree with me, but you just confirmed that that approach isn't really clear or better and more helpful or readable. :)
[07:40] <dholbach> good morning
[08:05]  * Rhonda still wonders where or what is getting discussed with respect to the libsdl issue.
[08:07] <Rhonda> And I also wonder why bug #203158 isn't set to Fix Released yet, won't this enter Lucid? :/
[11:16] <asac> persia: do you know if with source format 3.0 there is an option to say: "dont even try to create a diff when building sources"?
[11:16] <asac> like debuild -S --ignore-diff
[11:16] <asac> ;)
[11:16] <asac> that would give me an incentive to use it for big packages ;)
[11:16] <asac> rather than embedded tarball
[11:18] <persia> asac: I don't think there is such an option, but I'm not 100% sure.  Someone more familiar with format 3.0 may be able to answer better.
[11:21] <asac> if it wouldnt be perl i would even feel to just implement it ;)
[11:22] <asac> now it needs a few more days of sleep before i can convince myself looking seriously
[11:22] <asac> ;)
[11:24] <persia> asac: dpkg always appreciates more love :)
[11:26] <c_korn> hello. can someone please check if this sync request is correct ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scilab/+bug/533746 requestsync crashed but it created the bug report.
[11:27] <ogra> asac, you can convince yourself to look serious ?
[11:27]  * ogra wishes he could do that sometimes ... but i always look silly
[11:30] <asac> lol
[11:38] <persia> c_korn: Looks good to me.  Please add a note that this is expected to fix a FTBFS on <list of architectures> in the description.
[11:42] <c_korn> persia: done, thanks.
[12:23] <persia> jpds: The ubumirror crontab suggests running as the ubumirror user, but the ubumirror package doesn't create such a user.  Is this a bug, or a design feature to make it not work for some folk?
[12:50] <stefanlsd> There is a FFE that was ack'd thats a sync from debian. Is there a process to sync this, or can i download the debian version and just upload it?
[12:50] <persia> stefanlsd: Subscribe the archive-admins
[12:51] <persia> (same as for any sync)
[12:51] <stefanlsd> persia: thx
[13:02] <jpds> persia: Design.
[13:03] <persia> jpds: Then I won't fix it :)  Thanks.
[13:03] <jpds> persia: Most mirrors use a ubuntu/ftpadm/mirror user.
[13:04] <persia> Makes sense.  And reasonable to assume some intelligence on the part of anyone mirroring large chunks of stuff.
[13:43] <mok0> james_w: ping
[14:04] <Laney> why did my ubuntu-dev-tools lose credentials?
[14:05] <Laney> ffs
[14:05] <Laney> I need to debug these lockups
[14:19] <_Andrew> Anyone know how I create a menu item where it opens a web page under the default browser?
[14:20]  * persia thought there was a special format for that in .desktop files
[14:20] <Laney> Is that part of the contract of x-www-browser?
[14:21] <geser> what about xdg-open?
[14:21] <persia> _Andrew: yr Type=Link and URL=...
[14:21] <persia> _Andrew: If that doesn't work, Exec=sensible-browser ${URL}
[14:21] <ogra> or xdg-open ${URL} ;)
[14:21] <persia> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/index.html
[14:22]  * persia has the debian-way hardcoded, and the XDG-way is a continuous learning process
[14:24] <_Andrew> Thanks
[15:20] <wzssyqa> http://paste.ubuntu.com/391821/
[15:21] <wzssyqa> it will compile twice,why?
[15:22] <randomaction> wzssyqa: because clean depends on build-stamp?
[15:22] <wzssyqa> randomaction: o,what should i do?
[15:23] <randomaction> try removing this dependency
[15:23] <wzssyqa> randomaction: i will try
[15:26] <wzssyqa> randomaction: for this file,whit obj will be exesced first?
[15:26] <randomaction> obj?
[15:27] <wzssyqa> clean: etc
[15:27] <persia> wzssyqa: "target" or "rule"
[15:28] <wzssyqa> persia: and now,for http://paste.ubuntu.com/391821/ this file?
[15:28] <randomaction> it depends on how you call it; "debian/rules TARGET" will run TARGET
[15:28] <persia> wzssyqa: What are you asking, precisely?
[15:29] <wzssyqa> randomaction: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot i just run it
[15:29] <wzssyqa> randomaction: then ,which one?
[15:29] <persia> wzssyqa: You'd have to check the source of dpkg-buildpackage to see what it does, but it oughtn't matter.  Try to make each rule do as described at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
[15:31] <randomaction> wzssyqa: see "man dpkg-buildpackage", points 3 and 5
[15:31] <wzssyqa> randomaction: o,thx
[15:32] <randomaction> and I agree with persia: there are certain semantics to these targets
[17:31] <ScottL_> I am trying to update the ubuntustudio-theme package but I'm concerned about using the correct methodology
[17:32] <ScottL_> i'm trying to add a plymouth theme to it
[17:32] <ScottL_> my concern lies with the versioning of the ubuntustudio-theme package
[17:32] <ScottL_> currently it is ubuntustudio-theme-0.73
[17:33] <ScottL_> when I add the plymouth theme, should I leave the source directory as 0.37 and run debuild -S which should give me a diff.gz file or
[17:34] <ScottL_> should I almost treat it as a new package and rename the source folder as 0.83
[17:34] <ScottL_> this is for submitting for a UI Freeze exception to add the plymouth theme
[17:35] <ScottL_> i've backported and packaged for new applications but never updated a package before
[17:40] <randomaction> if this is an Ubuntu-specific native package, you should just increase version number in changelog
[17:40] <randomaction> debuild will rename directory for you
[17:43] <randomaction> and there should be no .diff.gz at all
[17:48] <ScottL_> randomaction: thanks, you answered before I could rewrite the questions in a more "lucid" way - get it, lucid?  hahaha
[17:48] <ScottL_> randomaction: jocularity aside, thanks for the answer, i've been worried about this since last night because I had already changed the version number in the changelog but was concerned about the folder name with version name
[17:49] <randomaction> you're welcome :)
[19:11] <christoph_debian> hm #535274 isn't complete but needs some subscription of relevant persons?
[19:12] <BlackZ> bug #535274
[19:16] <BlackZ> chrisccoulson: why isn't the message signed?
[19:16] <BlackZ> christoph_debian: why isn't the message signed?
[19:16] <BlackZ> chrisccoulson: sorry, tab mistake
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[19:16] <christoph_debian> BlackZ: because I have hard trouble getting that bug through in any way
[19:17] <BlackZ> and * Update for flexistream in unstable (Closes: #567812) <- you can use (LP: #567812) instead.
[19:17] <BlackZ> however it should be signed
[19:18] <christoph_debian> that's what is in debian do I really need an extra upload for ubuntu?
[19:18] <christoph_debian> syncing has always worked
[19:19] <christoph_debian> #567812 is a debian bug not a ubuntu one
[19:19] <BlackZ> ah, then it's ok christoph_debian
[19:21] <geser> BlackZ: what you mean with "signed"?
[19:22] <BlackZ> geser: signed with PGP
[19:25] <BlackZ> christoph_debian: have you check if the package build?
[19:27] <BlackZ> builds*
[19:32] <christoph_debian> BlackZ: jep I've tested it
[19:32] <randomaction> christoph_debian: the bug is OK
[19:33] <christoph_debian> randomaction: jep archive sponsors are nos subscribed as well, however not sure if that was a late result of my requestsync call or of someone's action here in the channel
[19:34] <randomaction> a sponsor will look at it, ack it and subscribe ubuntu-archive
[19:35] <geser> BlackZ: if a bug is filed directly in LP (or via the LP API) there is no signing necessary. Signing is only needed for the e-mail interface
[19:35] <christoph_debian> jep (not the first time I request a sync but the first time requestsync dies with horrible error messages)
[19:36] <geser> a HTTP 412 error? known problem and not only requestsync is affected
[19:36] <randomaction> when it crashes you need to subscribe u-u-s (which geser did for you in this case)
[19:37] <christoph_debian> first it failed because I had a outdated system clock ...
[19:38] <christoph_debian> and then the 412
[19:38] <christoph_debian> :)
[23:29] <Linux000> Hello, I have a patch for an upstream project that I would like to submit and was wondering how/where to post it?
[23:39] <vorian> Linux000: launchpad.net
[23:40] <vorian> you should be able to find the appropriate package, see if it has a bug your patch fixes, post it to that bug.  If it doesn't have a bug, open a new one and attach your patch
[23:52] <Linux000> vorian: Thanks
[23:52] <vorian> np
[23:52] <vorian> when you submit the patch, make sure to subscribe (not assign) universe-sponsors to the bug
[23:53] <vorian> Linux000: that way someone will look at it
[23:53] <Linux000> Will do
[23:53] <vorian> fantastic
[23:59] <Linux000> the plot thickens, the source isn't in Debian format, hmm
[23:59] <vorian> it doesn't have to be


[12:03] <lukacu> yeah ... hope somebody will assemble meeting minutes too
[12:03] <mhz> lukacu: my only 2 cents would be we base a structure similar to artnay's regarding wiki
[12:04] <mhz> but
[12:04] <mhz> you all could agree on the 'areas' wiki needs to be structured
[12:04] <mhz> I already know we want every flavour artwork to be easily indentified
[12:05] <lukacu> ok
[12:05] <mhz> but the main need in order to work on a wiki structure is to know exactly how many areas we need to cover (example: every flavour artwork will have: *Logo, *Documentation *Wallpapers *Themes *Backgrounds, etc)
[12:06] <mhz> AT this very moment, we can't do what artnay wants (it's a very ggod idea but not possible yet) to have the 'grep -i' thing
[12:07] <mhz> so, unfortunately, RecentChanges will list each change made to ANY page or team page
[12:07] <mhz> However, we can encourqage people who are interested on getting news fro art or contributing to it, to subscribe to pages
[12:08] <mhz> and they 'll get email notification per change
[12:08] <mhz> including a nice text diff and the user who did such change
[12:09] <mhz> lukacu: again, sorry, I have to leave. I'll keep this box open though in case I come to a solution in this family thing
[12:09] <lukacu> ok ... no problem mhz
[12:09] <lukacu> i hope you will solve the problems
[12:09] <mhz_idle> mee too
[12:12] <libervisco> hm.. we're 10 minutes in
[12:13] <Yetzero> So which issues will we discuss in this meeting?
[12:13] <Yetzero> which points
[12:14] <trevorv> i think this is supposed to be in #ubuntu-meeting, no?
[12:14] <lukacu> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2005-December/000543.html
[12:14] <lukacu> agenda
[12:14] <Yetzero> thanks
[12:14] <lukacu> and go to the #ubuntu-meeting
[12:15] <ptomes> thank you
[12:51] <Burgwork> who is viper500 on the wiki?
[12:54] <lukacu> Viper550 ?
[12:55] <Burgwork> yep
[12:55] <Burgwork> oops
[12:55] <klepas> he's not listed on the /ArtworkTeam page
[01:22] <Viper550> Welcome people from the meeting, which just ended
[01:22] <libervisco> or not
[01:23] <libervisco> they just raised an universe artwork package idea
[01:29] <Viper550> Bachler, PM's are blocked for me, I'm not registered, but I'll find it@
[01:30] <bachler> oh..
[01:30] <bachler> k
[01:31] <Viper550> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20051226/f7c89d99/ubuntuglow-0001.jpg
[01:31] <Viper550> Here is the infamous wallpaper
[01:32] <Burgwork> Viper550, too red at the bottom, but looks good
[01:32] <Viper550> It's brown silly!
[01:33] <Burgwork> the bottom is quite red
[01:33] <bachler> Viper550: i think that (if the default brown is changed) you wally needs to be adjusted to fit it
[01:33] <Viper550> Don't forget, the top matches up with our new Metacity theme (ClearLooks 2)
[01:34] <Viper550> Also, I've got an idea for a new default font!
[02:31] <mhz_away> RE
[02:31] <mhz_away> re
[02:49] <mhz> klep[a] s: ping
[02:49] <mhz> oh, sorry
[02:50] <mhz> well, I'd like to add that we will have Edubuntu ArtWork as well
[02:50] <mhz> :)
[09:40] <artnay> g morning. guess who overslept? :)
[11:06] <artnay> klep[a] s: will you discuss about the communication issue with canonical?
[11:06] <artnay> we didn't make much decisions yesterday (wait, it was today), it was quite a mess :o
[11:08] <artnay> but at least we agreed to have that unified wiki structure. although nobody promised to take care of Kub... and Xub...
[11:09] <artnay> if we get /UbuntuArtwork right, I guess people might be interested to have similiar page for their favourite *buntu. so, did we promise to have /UbuntuArtwork done within five days? :)
[11:11] <artnay> I'm quite disappointed that there wasn't much Artwork Team members online
[11:14] <manicka> hmmm, as someone new to the team, I found the meeting quite hard to follow
[11:14] <manicka> to many individual agendas
[11:15] <artnay> manicka: it was, some people didn't follow the agenda
[11:15] <manicka> agreed
[11:15] <manicka> you did your best though
[11:15] <manicka> :)
[11:15] <artnay> well I can't say so... I was on the verge of being late...
[11:15] <artnay> so I wasn't properly prepared
[11:16] <artnay> sorry for that
[11:16] <manicka> maybe some stricter meeting guidelines would help
[11:17] <manicka> one person directing the meeting and sticking to the agenda religously
[11:17] <manicka> just a thought
[11:17] <artnay> I was surprised to see which topics people discussed
[11:18] <artnay> I mean, it's ok to raise some issues above others. still /Artwork and the context behind that is the 1st priority
[11:18] <artnay> it's something we depend on
[11:18] <artnay> organized place for information
[11:20] <artnay> there are lots of artists around the ubuntu community, we'd need them to use wiki
[11:21] <artnay> I think that's the only reasonable way to co-operate on artwork
[11:27] <manicka> sorry, I was daydreaming
[11:28] <artnay> that's quite common
[11:28] <manicka> I agree, the wiki needs to be the focus for organisation
[11:28] <manicka> but in such a format
[11:28] <manicka> that is useable by the team
[11:29] <manicka> moin moin can be difficult for some to get the hang of
[11:29] <artnay> not just the artwork team, anyone who visits /Artwork should get a clear picture what's happening, how can one contribute and visitors have to find necessary guides to do things
[11:29] <manicka> yes, agreed
[11:30] <manicka> if we get the ubuntu part right and functioning effectively, the others (kubuntu etc) should follow suit
[11:31] <manicka> hehe, I'll be in fiji for that one
[11:31] <artnay> manicka: I think that will get done quite automatically if just get the Ubuntu part done right
[11:31] <manicka> yes
[11:31] <artnay> as you said :)
[11:32] <artnay> anyways, have you identified to NickServ? freenode almost requires that
[11:32] <manicka> yes
[11:33] <artnay> I hope we're able to raise the communication issue in the next CC
[11:33] <manicka> I'm a regular on lots of other channels
[11:33] <klep[a] s> hi you two :)
[11:33] <manicka> not sure when the next cc will be
[11:34] <artnay> hey klepas
[11:34] <manicka> wiki says sometime in January
[11:34] <manicka> hi klepas
[11:34] <artnay> manicka: that's quite late, don't you think?
[11:34] <klepas> i've just gone through what the two of you talked about before i joined
[11:35] <artnay> klepas: don't forget to read the meeting log, too
[11:35] <klepas> i'm sorry that the meeting was so disorganised
[11:35] <klepas> artnay: i know, i'm writing the minutes
[11:35] <artnay> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[11:35] <artnay> That collaboration depends on good relationships between developers.
[11:36] <manicka> the next cc meeting was due for next week but it doesn't look like that will happen
[11:36] <artnay> and currently we don't have much relations to canonical...
[11:36] <klepas> that is something i am going to clean up
[11:36] <manicka> have many in the artwork team signed the CoC?
[11:37] <klepas> no point putting a lot of effort into something that won't be used
[11:37] <artnay> manicka: only a few AFAIK
[11:37] <klepas> manicka: i have not as of yet :)
[11:37] <klepas> i will when i apply for membership
[11:37] <manicka> it's a fairly painless process
[11:37] <klepas> yea
[11:38] <manicka> and shows the cc/developers etc that you are on board... so to speak
[11:38] <klepas> i will be sharing my public keys at keysigning at LCA [http://lca2006.linux.org.au/]
[11:38] <klepas> yep
[11:38] <klepas> manicka: i want to sign it along with my membership
[11:39] <manicka> hmm, fair enough
[11:39] <klepas> but i am afraid i have not been been around long enough.
[11:39] <klepas> so it might take a little longer
[11:39] <artnay> Members of the Ubuntu community need to work together effectively, and this code of conduct lays down the "ground rules" for our cooperation.
[11:40] <klepas> but in the meantime, signed or unsigned i'm following the CoC. :)
[11:40] <manicka> I often wonder what the definition of 'long enough' is to the cc
[11:40] <klepas> artnay: once the meeting minutes are finished, where ought I stick them on the wiki?
[11:40] <klepas> somewhere under /Artwork/Meetings
[11:41] <artnay> klepas: yeah, and a link to that at News section of /Artwork
[11:41] <klepas> yep
[11:41] <artnay> but we should write a list what we agreed on yesterday
[11:41] <klepas> i'm going to spend my late evening and morning on that
[11:41] <klepas> yep
[11:42] <artnay> can you do that as well?
[11:42] <artnay> I'm supposed to do some other work meanwhile :p
[11:42] <klepas> cooperatively
[11:42] <klepas> yea
[11:42] <klepas> which list in particular?
[11:43] <artnay> list of things that were discussed and what we decided
[11:43] <klepas> oh
[11:43] <klepas> so essentially minutes?
[11:43] <artnay> sort of
[11:44] <artnay> we should also publicize a log of that meeting
[11:44] <klepas> yep
[11:44] <klepas> i can do that too
[11:44] <klepas> i'll start working on the wiki tomorrow
[11:44] <artnay> you know where to find them?
[11:44] <klepas> yep
[11:44] <klepas> sure do
[11:44] <artnay> I thought so
[11:44] <klepas> ~fabbione/logs
[11:45] <artnay> we witnesses yesterday that people haven't read /Artwork
[11:45] <artnay> -s+d
[11:45] <artnay> so that would be a requirement before attending the next meeting
[11:46] <klepas> yep
[11:46] <manicka> good idea
[11:46] <artnay> only that way we can keep the discussion more organized
[11:47] <manicka> agreed
[11:47] <klepas> i think before the next meeting we need to select someone amongst ourselves (think maurico, lukacu, yourselves and maybe even i) to steer the meeting along the agenda
[11:47] <klepas> which i will write up separately
[11:47] <klepas> based upon /Artwork
[11:48] <klepas> also, i'd really appreciate maurico's moin wiki tutorial right now
[11:48] <klepas> because i'm going to have to stick to the simple stuff otherwise =\
[11:48] <artnay> I tried to create some discussion yesterday but I wasn't pleased about the results
[11:48] <artnay> at first I thought you and mhz couldn't attend for some reason
[11:48] <klepas> sorry, mum woke me up
[11:48] <artnay> so I was like "whaaaaat is this" :)
[11:49] <klepas> i set my alarm clock to 9:30
[11:49] <klepas> and i turned it off, and dozed again ;)
[11:49] <klepas> mum came in and told me i am missing my meeting
[11:49] <artnay> duh!
[11:49] <artnay> I did the same to my both alarm clocks this morning
[11:49] <klepas> mums are great
[11:52] <artnay> ok, so "stfu and keep on agenda" in the next meeting
[11:52] <artnay> what's not marked into agenda can be discussed on this channel
[11:53] <klepas> yes
[11:53] <klepas> or proposed in the end if we have time
[11:53] <klepas> frankly at this point we are so poorly disorganised that discussing individual artwork is not and cannot be on the agenda
[11:53] <klepas> we need to fix the way the art team works first
[11:53] <artnay> I thought that was quite clear
[11:54] <klepas> obviously not
[11:54] <manicka> to some
[11:54] <klepas> like you mentioned earlier, some people did not even glance at /Artwork
[11:54] <artnay> yeah, never under- or overestimate people
[11:54] <klepas> expect the unexpected?
[11:54] <klepas> :)
[11:54] <klepas> anyhow
[11:54] <klepas> i could do with some help
[11:54] <klepas> to start this artwork thing
[11:54] <klepas> could you make /Artwork not point to the proposal
[11:55] <klepas> but to an empty page
[11:55] <artnay> klepas: ask mhz to do that
[11:55] <klepas> which I would be happy to start upon in a few hours time
[11:55] <artnay> I actually placed it as /Artwork a long time ago
[11:55] <klepas> reason i ask is because i wouldn't know how ;)
[11:55] <klepas> Alrighty, i'll give Maurico a buzz
[11:55] <artnay> but it was so disorganized then so mhz had to redirect it
[11:55] <artnay> hey lllmanulll
[11:56] <klepas> i'll be back in a few minutes
[11:58] <artnay> and one thing we have to make clear is the co-operation with desktop team
[11:58] <artnay> I know we're doing duplicate work
[11:58] <artnay> and with current resources, that shouldn't happen
[11:59] <artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam - take a look at their purpose & vision
[12:00] <artnay> Artwork Team was the first one to do some of those tasks, but as it failed before breezy, Desktop Team was formed
[12:03] <artnay> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=107022
[12:03] <artnay> we should try to answer some basic questions
[12:16] <klepas> i'm going to have to come back later
[12:16] <klepas> needed offline
[12:16] <klepas> be back in about an hour-ish :)
[12:22] <artnay> I'm reading this DE war at OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=13118&offset=0&rows=15&threshold=-1
[12:41] <klepas> artnay: interesting
[12:41] <klepas> a lot of the points he mentions are quite correct
[12:42] <klepas> however i think the aggressive stance it takes is wrong
[12:55] <artnay> it's inevitable when it comes to F/OSS DEs :)
[01:08] <lllmanulll> hey artnay :)
[01:12] <artnay> hi
[01:12] <artnay> so what are your thoughts on the meeting?
[01:13] <artnay> lllmanulll: aren't you involved in desktop team as well? do you have any idea what the DT purpose & vision means?
[01:13] <manicka> my thoughts?
[01:14] <artnay> manicka: yours too :)
[01:16] <manicka> my thoughts, well I've already mentioned that many didn't seem to be aware of the agenda and this resulted in general mayhem
[01:16] <manicka> but generally
[01:16] <manicka> the things I was looking for didn't come out in the meeting that I could see
[01:17] <manicka> what is the groups purpose
[01:17] <artnay> manicka: what are you looking for?
[01:17] <manicka> how does it function
[01:17] <manicka> how can people contribute effectively
[01:17] <manicka> are the groups efforts effective in the grand scheme of things
[01:17] <manicka> ???
[01:19] <manicka> the wiki discussion was a good start
[01:19] <manicka> but needs more work
[01:20] <manicka> something to present at the mext meeting should clarify the wiki discussion better
[01:20] <klepas> manicka: that is the idea
[01:20] <klepas> artnay, mhz and i will work on the wiki
[01:21] <klepas> Andy Fitzsimon, lukacu and I will report on AUC
[01:21] <klepas> i might even set up a CMS on my local server and then open some ports for you lot to take a look at a proposed CMS for AUC
[01:21] <klepas> and generally get the organisation and facilities to produce art back up
[01:22] <klepas> and then we're going to pull out the gimp and inkscape :)
[01:22] <manicka> sounds good..... like a purpose is developing
[01:22] <lllmanulll> artnay : yep, i'm part of the desktop team
[01:22] <manicka> a better organised and tighter run meeting should make all this clearer
[01:23] <lllmanulll> artnay I believe its goal is to give the best polish for our distribution
[01:23] <manicka> anyway guys, I'm stuffed .... late night here, I'm turning in
[01:23] <klepas> manicka: i think you can rest assured that at least those here now as well as mhz and lukacu will make sure of a smoother meeting
[01:23] <klepas> manicka: farewell
[01:24] <lllmanulll> artnay Such as usability...
[01:24] <manicka> ciao all
[01:24] <artnay> lllmanulll: isn't there a11y for that? :)
[01:24] <artnay> if desktop team wants their part of this, they have to tell what they want to do
[01:24] <artnay> otherwise they have to redirect people to get involved in artwork team
[01:25] <artnay> dupe work is out of question now, we have so many things to do even without duplicate projects
[01:32] <lllmanulll> artnay Desktop team takes care of code, not artwork
[01:34] <lllmanulll> artnay : accessibility and usability are two very different problems :)
[01:41] <artnay> oh, I misread... anyways, Desktop Team wants some flash factor
[01:41] <artnay> "We, the DesktopTeam will be the guys that are the first contact for new users, we will create, beautify and organise the most-visible parts of Ubuntu."
[01:41] <artnay> now what are the most-visible parts of Ubuntu?
[01:45] <lllmanulll> Well, but at least the artwork team doesn't take care of code, so I don't think there will be any duplicate work :)
[01:51] <artnay> http://sven.gimp.org/gimp-2.2.10-splash-contest+ixyx_v0.2b.png
[01:51] <artnay> new splash
[01:51] <lllmanulll> Looks nice :
[01:51] <lllmanulll> !
[01:51] <lllmanulll> Is it the winner ?
[01:52] <lllmanulll> Why does it stop at 30 years ? :-p
[01:52] <artnay> that's a good question
[01:52] <artnay> maybe they will change the name then? :o
[01:52] <artnay> I don't like that font, it's too big and rusty
[01:53] <artnay> it just doesn't fit there
[02:20] <artnay> hey, any deviants here?
[02:31] <klepas> sort of
[02:31] <klepas> i signed up
[02:31] <klepas> and then looked at their upload policy
[02:31] <klepas> and disagreed with it
[02:34] <artnay> hhehhe
[02:35] <klepas> i don't like it that they can just use my image for anything on deviantart
[02:42] <artnay> http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Ubuntu-Carribean_Medicine_Mask_1280x960.jpg - I don't think that photo is GPL'd
[02:44] <klepas> the end of "linux" is difficult to make out anyway
[02:57] <klepas> hey
[02:57] <klepas> artnay: i'm going to send you what i've got soon
[03:04] <Tm_T> hullo
[03:05] <klepas> hey Tm_T :)
[03:18] <Tm_T> I bet I spend next day upgrading and fixing my system *=)
[04:19] <mhz> artnay: i have a raw propsal for wiki structure
[04:33] <artnay> mhz: and I have nothing new
[04:33] <artnay> mhz: shall we make a proposal page? :)
[04:37] <artnay> I've been thinking those artwork .debs
[04:37] <artnay> if they are metapackages, it's rather hard to remove (purging) them
[04:38] <artnay> aptitude would check the dependencies but majority of people use plain apt-get
[04:38] <artnay> apt -D might do something
[04:38] <artnay> I'm no expert, therefore we should ask packagers opinion
[04:40] <artnay> would there be only one big pack available?
[04:40] <artnay> apt is ok but far from perfect
[04:41] <mhz> artnay: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtWorkWikiStructureProposal
[04:42] <artnay> I think we don't need separate our proposals
[04:43] <artnay> as we three all use IRC, it's pretty easy to discuss here
[04:43] <artnay> so let's have one common proposal, let's discuss about it in here and then edit it
[04:43] <artnay> does that sound better to you?
[04:44] <mhz> yup
[04:44] <artnay> do we have to separate people between the projects?
[04:44] <artnay> can't we have one common contact page and interests listed after name?
[04:44] <mhz> but as w hadnt agreed on that, and in case we cant discuss soem stuff (IRC timings)... I am not sure if remving it is god idea
[04:45] <artnay> we can even split the names between the projects on one page
[04:45] <artnay> I know that's against "let's split subjects based on *buntu flavour", but some things should be kept simple
[04:46] <mhz> artnay: I feel that having a 'heading' for each project/pet project is more efficient so visitors can exactly know who t contact
[04:47] <artnay> mhz: that's true, it should be clear to others. but we can link to only one contact page under every /*buntuArtwork
[04:47] <mhz> and having (parenthesis + interests)  forces people t read each line
[04:47] <mhz> artnay: 'contact' sure!
[04:47] <artnay> but the status page for project could include members involved
[04:48] <artnay> so it would separate more efficiently
[04:48] <artnay> and then we would have this one common contact page
[04:48] <mhz> artnay: and how do you imagine the 'status page' to look and make it look like it?
[04:50] <artnay> well it should list the current status, current default artwork related to that project, members who involved in it, dependencies to other projects, deadline, current issues, links to other related sites (inside ubuntu wiki) and on the bottom of all, links to external sites (guides etc.)
[04:50] <artnay> I think that should cover pretty much the needed information
[04:51] <artnay> and *buntuProjectArtworkDiscussion for free discussion/WIP artwork
[04:51] <mhz> artnay: yes, but how do you imagine it 'making it look like that', from a wiki perspective? How are you planning to optimize editing to it?
[04:52] <artnay> it should be based on clear subtopics and TOC
[04:52] <artnay> optimize? what do you mean?
[04:54] <mhz> optimize = who will keep record/log of the status in order to edit, how will the status look? (table?, lists?)
[04:55] <artnay> that would require people who are involved in that project to keep it up-to-date
[04:55] <artnay> I'm not sure how the layout should be done, but I'm pretty sure we can come up with something
[04:56] <artnay> I'm sorry, I'm in a hurry now
[04:56] <artnay> I'll be back in 30 minutes
[04:56] <artnay> bye mhz and thanks for helping us :)
[04:57] <mhz> bye artnay in case i dont see you b4..
[04:57] <mhz> artnay: have a nice holyday
[04:57] <mhz> artnay: have a nice holiday
[05:38] <artnay> :i
[05:38] <artnay> took a bit longer than I thought
[05:43] <artnay> mhz: is that proposal navigatable at /Artwork?
[05:43] <artnay> and really, do we need separate parts?
[05:43] <artnay> it's not like a job for three people only
[05:44] <artnay> everyone should be able to edit so we don't get blamed for bad structure that has been developed as a closed project :P
[05:46] <artnay> and I guess you're the one of us who has the needed wiki information
[05:47] <artnay> what do you think, mhz?
[05:48] <artnay> damn NYE tomorrow... five days isn't much
[05:49] <artnay> well maybe we need to relax and party when the NYE hits your time zone. hard work good but first take care of head ;)
[05:51] <artnay> ping, anyone alive?
[05:52] <artnay> Tm_T: hey, can I have kapsi account? I lost my I line! :(
[05:52] <artnay> ;P
[06:25] <mhz> artnay: re
[06:25] <mhz> artnay: i'm at lucnh nw
[06:25] <mhz> be back after it
[06:38] <Tm_T> artnay: =)
[06:38] <Tm_T> artnay: www.kapsi.fi ;)
[08:32] <mhz> re
[08:45] <mhz> off topic: Anyone has swedish, finnish, etc. cooking recipes I can download (hopefully with pictures on it)?
[08:48] <bachler> mhz: http://hem.passagen.se/stektsill/recept.htm
[08:49] <mhz> bachler: thx, /me tabbing
[08:49] <bachler> np
[08:49] <bachler> good luck btw :-)
[08:49] <mhz> bachler: ooops
[08:50] <mhz> detail: I've no idea of finnish nor swedish :)
[08:50] <mhz> heheh