[02:21] <Unit193> Nooo, it's genii-around! ;)
[02:22]  * genii-around sips and looks in Unit193's general direction
[05:28] <LubuntuPowered> it looks like my monitor resolution is capped at  800x600, before the upgrade to 11.10 i could set it higher
[08:31] <bencc> when dragging a window in 11.10 it is getting smeared
[08:32] <bencc> am I missing a video card driver?
[10:57] <LubuntuPowered> so i still can't change my resolution to anything above 800x600 =[
[10:57] <LubuntuPowered> all drivers and everything is updated, including video
[11:07] <bioterror> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/FAQ/Workarounds#Screen_resolution_is_wrong.2C_no_matter_what_I_do.21.21
[12:58] <gge0rge> hello
[12:58] <gge0rge> can anyone help me with teamviewer on lubuntu please?
[14:24] <urupica> my lubuntu box doesn't source my ~/.xinitrc file while booting. how can i fix that?
[14:45] <lubuntu20dash> Hi, what was the command to upgrade lubuntu version in terminal mode?
[14:48] <lubuntu20dash> Is, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade ?
[15:05] <l33_> hi
[15:59] <Bedardi-Raja> Hi. Am on Xubuntu 10.04 right now. Would a sudo apt-get intall lubuntu-desktop and changing the session after logging out get me started on Lubuntu? Thanks.
[15:59] <Bedardi-Raja> install*
[16:41] <leszek> hi
[17:00] <nelson8874> hello
[17:00] <nelson8874> trying to use banshee in lubuntu. But it doesn't play music....
[17:28] <nelson8874> trying to use banshee in lubuntu. But it doesn't play music....
[18:22] <wxl> so in my efforts to compare debian ppc (lxde spin) to lubuntu on a ppc, i can at least say getting through installation, proper booting, and the basic desktop was a PAIN IN THE BUTT with debian
[18:23] <wxl> i did find lxmusic though and i like that a lot a lot a lot
[18:23] <wxl> crap is lxde.org still down?
[18:25] <Unit193> Is for me, and lxde.orc doesn't appear to exist :P
[18:26] <Unit193> linux3.cc.ntu.edu.tw returned (NORECORDS)
[18:26] <wxl> :(
[20:06] <LucMove> Hey. How can I run applications at startup? ~/.config/openbox/autostart isn't working.
[20:07] <wxl> you can click on them
[20:07] <wxl> just kidding :D
[20:07] <wxl> /etc/xdg/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart
[20:07] <LucMove> that doesn't work either
[20:08] <wxl> ~/.config/autostart
[20:08] <wxl> ?
[20:08] <LucMove> And, frankly, apps should be run on a per user basis. Running them from wholesale /etc. config is bullshit.
[20:08] <LucMove> Pardon my French.
[20:08] <wxl> oh it's ok, i don't speak french
[20:09] <wxl> ;)
[20:09] <wxl> like i said, try ~/.config/autostart
[20:11] <wxl> oh
[20:11] <wxl> preferences > desktop session settings > automaticaally started applications
[20:11] <wxl> oh he left
[20:12] <LucMove> nope, that didn't work either
[20:12] <wxl> well now that's downright bizarre
[20:12] <wxl> sounds like we might have a bug
[20:12] <wxl> assume you've seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cuQvQBIAo&noredirect=1 ?
[20:13] <LucMove> are you a developer/maintainer?
[20:13] <wxl> nope but i know when every possible solution doesn't work, it's usually a bug!
[20:14] <LucMove> sigh
[20:14] <wxl> seriously that works great for me
[20:14] <wxl> what are you trying to run?
[20:15] <LucMove> a terminal, scripts etc.
[20:16] <LucMove> I can open another terminal and run autostart manually, then it works.
[20:16] <LucMove> but I've been having to run it manually at every boot
[20:19] <LucMove> I've been googling, some people say the right path is ~/.config/openbox/autostart
[20:19] <LucMove> some people say it's ~/.config/openbox/autostart.sh
[20:19] <LucMove> I have both, neither works
[20:20] <LucMove> they are both executable
[20:20] <wxl> permission issues maybe?
[20:20] <LucMove> even running as root it doesn't work
[20:21] <LucMove> like I said, I can run it manually
[20:21] <wxl> hm i don't have either
[20:21] <LucMove> what do you mean?
[20:22] <wxl> neither of the autostarts
[20:22] <wxl> i do in /etc/xdg/lxsession/Lubuntu
[20:22] <LucMove> doesn't work either and not the right way to do it
[20:23] <wxl> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  174 2011-07-22 07:24 autostart
[20:23] <LucMove> plenty of documentation says it's  ~/.config/openbox/autostart
[20:23] <LucMove> ok, thank you for your attention, I will come back later
[22:42] <Cortex> Headphones don't seem to work with lubuntu on my laptop?
[22:42] <Cortex> How can I fix this?
[22:44] <mmaksimov> Cortex, does laptop play anything via build-in speakers?
[22:44] <Cortex> yeah, the laptop speakers work fine
[22:45] <Cortex> but when plugging the headphones, sound plays on both headphones AND laptop speakers
[22:46] <mmaksimov> ooops... Are you sure this isn't a hardware problem of your laptop?
[22:47] <mmaksimov> I mean, does it work normally with any OS other than lubuntu?
[22:47] <z3r1n> ls
[22:47] <z3r1n> hi
[22:48] <z3r1n> somebody awake?
[22:48] <wxl> nope
[22:48] <Cortex> mmaksimov: same thing happened with Ubuntu and Puppy before
[22:48] <wxl> that reeks of a hardware problem
[22:48] <Cortex> well, is there anything to fix it?
[22:48] <Cortex> it's an old compaq laptop, if that helps
[22:49] <wxl> call compaq? ;)
[22:49] <z3r1n> how can i disable/remove unity an get a decent gnome desktop on 11.10
[22:49] <wxl> z3r1n: unity? are you getting lubuntu and ubuntu confused?
[22:50] <Cortex> hehe. I heard there was a solution to headphones problem in old laptop models, but can't find it
[22:50] <RaitoYagami> z3r1n get in #ubuntu
[22:50] <z3r1n> wx1 not my friend, i installed lubuntu, and later ubuntu-desktop thinking in the old gnome desktop
[22:50] <wxl> z3r1n: well ubuntu-desktop is basically ubuntu, so.......
[22:51] <z3r1n> oh tnx that was helpful
[22:51] <wxl> seriously, you're putting frankenstein together
[22:51] <mmaksimov> z3r1n, "So do you join the Unity, or do you die here? Join! Die!" (c) Master from Fallout1
[22:51] <wxl> i would ONLY install the gnome components you need
[22:52] <wxl> you actually made more work for yourself
[22:52] <z3r1n> i instaled gnome-panel and with it i obtained a gnome session but it lacks graphs and some things are weird
[22:53] <z3r1n> before i used to have lbuntu with gnome and workd perfectly
[22:53] <z3r1n> in 10.04 and 10.10
[22:54] <Cortex> so no fix for the line out problem?
[22:55] <wxl> Cortex: i'd google it. no idea.
[22:56] <Cortex> hm. Well I can't even find a setting for sound. (Sorry, I'm new to Lubuntu)
[22:58] <wxl> Cortex: try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting
[22:59] <mmaksimov> Cortex, try alsamixer to see the sound settings
[23:00] <wxl> (that's a command line program)
[23:00] <mmaksimov> wxl, yes, and it "just works" in virtually any distro/DE/whatever :)
[23:02] <wxl> didn't say it's bad mmaksimov :D
[23:04] <mmaksimov> :D
[23:04] <Cortex> thanks, I'll try these
[23:07] <Cortex> ok, alsamixer says "headphone jack sense (off)"
[23:07] <Cortex> is this the problem then?
[23:10] <wxl> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/speakers-and-headphone-both-play-together-592807/
[23:11] <wxl> http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2010/06/headphone-jack-sense-problem-in-ubuntu.html
[23:15] <Cortex> woo, using alsamixer worked, I just turned jack sense on
[23:15] <Cortex> thanks guys!
[23:15] <wxl> yey
[23:16] <Cortex> :) everyone is always helpful here. thanks again! gotta go!


[11:43] <oliver__> Hi. I come from the user chanel. But it seems to be a more developer like problem with the Xorg Server in 14.04.2 LTS. Perhaps anyone hre has an idea to my problem.
[11:45] <oliver__> Since Ubuntu Studio 14.04.2 the Nvidia-Optimus causes crashes when closing windows. but not all the time.
[11:47] <oliver__> No problems so far with the version 14.04.1. Any Ideas?
[13:17] <OvenWerks> zequence: any idea which version of the eq10q package debian has?
[13:21] <zequence> OvenWerks: You can use rmadison to find out. Use the option "-u debian"
[13:21] <zequence> In Jessie: 2.0~beta5.1~repack0-2
[13:22] <OvenWerks> zequence: as of trusty we have 1.2 (gui is funny)vivid has 2.0/beta5.1
[13:22] <zequence> Wheezy has that version too
[13:23] <OvenWerks> I don't know if it is worth while pulling that back to LTS or not. The calf eqs are broken/won't fix
[13:24] <zequence> What do you mean, broken/won't fix?
[13:24] <OvenWerks> So I am looking for a replacement
[13:24] <OvenWerks> take a look at the generic controls in ardour.
[13:24] <zequence> Backports are always possible. We were supposed to do that a lot more for trusty
[13:24] <OvenWerks> the controls are exposed as if they are in db, but they need ratio input to work.
[13:25] <OvenWerks> The dev says it is ardour's fault (and I guess qtracktoprs fault too?)
[13:26] <zequence> Perhaps they do the same fault in implementation
[13:26] <OvenWerks> Anyway the bug has been there a long time... so it can't automated
[13:27] <OvenWerks> Could be. It is just that those two apps are the standard apps a plugin will be used with
[13:27] <OvenWerks> The standard test against apps in linux.
[13:27] <zequence> If the fix is to do something wrong, and hacky, I can understand a no fix stance.
[13:28] <zequence> It's quite possible some code was copied from one app to another
[13:28] <OvenWerks> http://x42-plugins.com/x42/x42-eq looks nice. I have been trying it, but it is not released yet.
[13:29] <zequence> I've noticed a lot of the sequencer have the same alsa midi bugs
[13:29] <OvenWerks> Anyway, off to work.
[13:29] <zequence> Either the bug is in ALSA itself, or they all do the same exact implementation of some parts
[13:30] <zequence> It's a red day for us, so no work today
[13:30] <zequence> Red, meaning a holiday
[20:08] <OvenWerks> zequence: for us (not US) it is monday.
[20:10] <OvenWerks> zequence: As for the calf eq plugins, I think they are what has the problem. The calf reverb is fine and works as expected. (aside from the bug that sometimes give 1000% output :)  But the levels work right anyway.
[20:14] <OvenWerks> zequence: however, even if the calf eq did work as it says iot should, it would not be that usable for things requiring automation or remote control just because ratios are not intuitive to use the way + or - db are. I am not sure why the GUI is in db for levels but the external controls are in ratio.


 Will you be landing the 5.15.6 experimental uploads in the PPA any time soon? (re @mitya57: I have very little time these days, so I don't know when I will have time for 5.15.6. But feel free to take 5.15.5 PPA from where I stopped.)
 Yes, I uploaded most of 5.15.6 to Debian today, will prepare a PPA in the next few days.
 I will probably create a new PPA.
 Ok 👍
 It will be https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4927/+packages


[12:28] <rick_h> how did it go on jitsi last night?
[12:29] <rick_h> couldn't join, was in the middle of making dinner and last time I joined during that it was a bit strange
[12:31] <Scary_Guy> Good morning.  I have nothing else valuable to contribute other than that right now.
[12:31] <Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XLZ4Z8LpEE&t=116 except maybe that.
[12:32] <Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MikoF6KZjm0 or that
[13:07] <cmaloney> morning
[13:07] <cmaloney> It went well. Had three people on besides myself
[13:30] <rick_h> cool
[13:30] <rick_h> how was jitsi? is it a web based thing?
[13:40] <Scary_Guy> Jitsi has desktop/mobile/web clients.  https://meet.jit.si is the web one.  I've used it and it works great, but I didn't have many users.
[13:40] <Scary_Guy> In any case, it's certainly better than Zoom.
[13:54] <cmaloney> The desktop stuff is deprecated
[13:55] <cmaloney> they're relying on WebRTC now
[13:55] <cmaloney> and SIP for phone connectivity for conferences
[13:55] <cmaloney> It works really well.
[13:55] <cmaloney> I self-hosted this last meeting and had a Linode instance handle four users without trouble
[13:55] <cmaloney> 4 cores, though. :)
[13:55] <cmaloney> I could have probably done it with less
[13:58] <Scary_Guy> Maybe, but the Android client just got an update :D
[14:00] <Scary_Guy> Though I have a theory that things which require internet access don't really need an app and should be able to run in the browser.  Also, things for offline use should require an app (like office, single player games, etc...)
[14:01] <Scary_Guy> It seems like with phones everyone wants to make an app to suck data from the user or sell it and suck data from the user.
[14:01] <cmaloney> I think the main issue with Jitsi mobile is CPU performance
[14:01] <cmaloney> I think you could crush a mobile phone with full-on WebRTC
[14:02] <cmaloney> and Safari on iOS probably works slightly worse than Safari on MacOS
[14:02] <cmaloney> At first I was skeptical, but I think they have a good reason for it
[14:02] <Scary_Guy> Anything on mobile is going to work worse than anything on a legitimate desktop.
[14:02] <cmaloney> Indeed
[14:02] <cmaloney> More explanation than Absolution.
[14:03] <cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijpQcd4FS8k
[14:03] <cmaloney> That was the meeting we ran on meet.jit.si with OBS doing the streaming
[14:04] <Scary_Guy> OBS is great
[14:04] <cmaloney> in part because meet.jit.si's jibri instances are all busy recording or streaming for other folks
[14:04] <Scary_Guy> I haven't really gotten into it much though.
[14:04] <cmaloney> Yeah, OBS is solid software
[14:04] <Scary_Guy> I'm working on getting my own audio stream up so I can pipe it into my Discord bot rather than just playing through my own voice channel.
[14:05] <Scary_Guy> Not that I love Disocrd, but it is an okay option for now.
[14:05] <Scary_Guy> (When it's not randomly crashing)
[14:06] <Scary_Guy> (which is often enough to be annoying, but not so often that I uninstall it)
[14:08] <cmaloney> I haven't used Discord ouside of the web client
[14:08] <cmaloney> and even then it's not my favorite.
[14:11] <jrwren> i like it. it is fast
[14:12] <cmaloney> No doubt there, but I find myself marking things read more often than not
[14:12] <cmaloney> Definitely not great for the FOMO
[14:14] <Scary_Guy> I mute a lot of servers.
[14:14] <Scary_Guy> and ignore a lot of things.
[14:14] <cmaloney> yeah
[14:14] <cmaloney> I'm on some servers that are no longer sparking joy
[14:14] <cmaloney> I deleted a few but I think I need to remove some more
[14:15] <Scary_Guy> Yeah, leaving is always an option.  I have some I should just axe too.
[14:15] <Scary_Guy> There is a Discord Linux one if you want though https://discord.gg/discord-linux
[14:19] <cmaloney> What's the main advantage of that outside of better voice?
[14:20] <Scary_Guy> It crashes randomly on you?  XD
[14:20] <cmaloney> You've sold me


[01:09]  * pleia2 gets to publishing
[01:09]  * Unit193 rechecks.
[01:13] <Unit193> Oh, erm.  Yeah it's good.
[01:13] <pleia2> thanks, I think PaulW2U_ fixed all the things :)
[01:15] <Unit193> Yeah, but new ones can crop up.  Thanks go to PaulW2U_ for fixing them all the time though!
[01:15]  * pleia2 nods
[01:38] <pleia2> Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 443 for the week November 16-22, 2015 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue443
[01:44] <tsimonq2> pleia2: was it sent to the mailing lists yet?
[01:44]  * tsimonq2 has to forward it on to his LoCo :P
[01:45] <pleia2> tsimonq2: yes
[01:45] <pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/2015-November/000521.html
[01:46] <tsimonq2> oh kewl thanks pleia2
[01:55] <tsimonq2> pleia2: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-us-wisconsin/msg00046.html
[01:56] <pleia2> :)
[01:58] <tsimonq2> hmm, I wonder if there is an automated way to do this...
[01:59] <tsimonq2> I will play with it :D


[15:02] <tz__> Good morning, I’m having trouble debugging my cloud-config script.  I’m on ubuntu 16.04.  I edit /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt and run cloud-init --debug init, but i get the same error message of “Unhandled non-multipart (text/x-not-multipart) userdata: ‘b’{‘…’” every time i run it, regardless of changes to user-data.txt
[15:03] <smoser> tz__, cloud-init does not re-read that file.
[15:03] <smoser> it reads form the datasource.
[15:04] <tz__> can i edit the data source on digital ocean after the VPS has been launched?
[15:04] <smoser> not terribly easily.
[15:04] <smoser> for debugging quick launches i suggest using lxc
[15:04] <tz__> how can i iterate quickly on the cloud-config file then without having to destroy, create a droplet?
[15:05] <smoser> since you already have one up, try this
[15:05] <smoser> sudo lxd init
[15:05] <smoser> ancer its questions
[15:05] <smoser> then as non-root
[15:05] <smoser> s/ancer/answer/
[15:05] <smoser> then as non-root
[15:07] <smoser> lxc image copy ubuntu-daily:xenial local: --alias xenial --auto-update
[15:07] <smoser> actually, i woudl install zfs first (apt-get install zfs)
[15:07] <smoser> then you can use zfs with lxc which is much faster.
[15:07] <smoser> then you launch new instances with
[15:07] <smoser>  lxc image copy ubuntu-daily:xenial local: --alias xenial --auto-update
[15:07] <smoser> fudge
[15:07] <smoser> sorr.
[15:08] <smoser> launch a new instance with user data in file 'user-data' like:
[15:08] <smoser> lxc launch ubuntu-daily:xenial my-name "--config=user.user-data=$(cat ./user-data)"
[15:09] <tz__> okay cool, trying it out now
[15:09] <tz__> thanks smoser!
[15:11] <tz__> is there anyway to see cloud init output inline when i launch?
[15:11] <tz__> or whats the best way to see the cloud init output?
[15:12] <smoser> no. actually.
[15:12] <smoser> that sucks.
[15:13] <smoser> at least not easily
[15:13] <smoser> you probably can
[15:13] <smoser> but you have to fiddle with the config options of the container
[15:13] <smoser> lxc used to put console output right in front of you
[15:13] <smoser> but lxc2.0 does not.
[15:13] <tz__> hmmm so how do people build the cloud config the first time? im probably gonna have to edit it 100 times before i get it right
[15:13] <smoser> tz__ but you can easily enough do things like:
[15:14] <smoser>  lxc exec NAME tail -f /var/log/cloud-init.log
[15:14] <smoser> tz__, if you're passing cloud-config, the first thing is that it needs to be valid yaml
[15:14] <smoser> so checking that is as simple as:
[15:14] <smoser>  python -c 'import yaml; yaml.load(open("your-user-data"))'
[15:16] <tz__> okay, that passes at least
[15:18] <tz__> got “Failed to shellify” then a dumb of all the runcmds
[15:20] <tz__> okay, i think it’s because i have blank lines (trying to split up the runcmds into sensible chunks)
[15:23] <tz__> smoser: thanks for your help, i’m now seeing cloud-init debug information
[15:25] <smoser> tz__, couple things...
[15:25] <smoser> you can do a print() of the loaded yaml to make sure it looks like you epxect
[15:25] <smoser> and also yaml "anchors" are useful for making things readable
[15:26] <smoser> look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/22322345/
[15:29] <tz__> okay, i’ll check that out
[15:29] <tz__> thanks!
[18:01] <tz__> is there such a thing as cloud config snippets? a repo of best installations of, for example, redis?
[18:01] <tz__> node, databases, node app
[18:02] <tz__> sshd_config
[18:02] <smoser> tz__, no.
[18:02] <tz__> sad.
[18:03] <tz__> seems like it would be super valuable since cloud configs are cross platform(ish)
[18:04] <tz__> check out what you want on the box, and it generates the cloud config for you
[18:04] <smoser> harlowja, around ?
[18:05] <harlowja> sup
[18:05] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+ref/version-info
[18:05] <smoser> actually..
[18:05] <smoser> let me propose for merge to make it easier for you
[18:05] <harlowja> thx :-P
[18:06] <harlowja> do we need to start using git rebase more also?
[18:06] <harlowja> to avoid crap histories?
[18:06] <harlowja> rebase then push --force
[18:08] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/302176
[18:08] <smoser> harlowja, are you trolling ?
[18:08] <harlowja> not really :-P
[18:08] <smoser> thats been my biggest pain ever.
[18:09] <smoser> 2 things that bzr did better than git
[18:09] <smoser> a.) bzr commit -p
[18:09] <harlowja> u just gotta know how to use git right ;)
[18:09] <smoser>   (this just shows diff in the EDITOR window, so you can write your message and look at the diff)
[18:09] <harlowja> http://blog.adamspiers.org/2015/03/24/why-and-how-to-correctly-amend-github-pull-requests/#sec-3
[18:09] <smoser> b.) uses '--first-parent' by default behaviori for git log
[18:09] <harlowja> its the same crap for github PRs that most people don't know how to do :-P
[18:10] <harlowja> http://blog.adamspiers.org/2015/03/24/why-and-how-to-correctly-amend-github-pull-requests/
[18:10] <smoser> using first-parent by default is genious
[18:10] <smoser> genius
[18:10] <harlowja> ya, bzr prob did that nicer
[18:10] <harlowja> gerrit forces it
[18:10] <harlowja> but github doesn't
[18:10] <smoser> it means that people dont have to squash and throw away data
[18:10] <smoser> in order to avoid crap history
[18:10] <harlowja> ya, fair
[18:10] <smoser> i almost consider just getting crap history
[18:11] <smoser> and saying "please use --first-parent"
[18:11] <smoser> so there... at that mp, i tested building of rpm.
[18:12] <harlowja> cool
[18:12] <harlowja> how'd that go
[18:12] <harlowja> ha
[18:12] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/22339840/
[18:13] <smoser> the way to build is this:
[18:13] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/22339872/
[18:13] <harlowja> cools
[18:13] <smoser> that does it all in an lxc container, but basic path is there.
[18:13] <harlowja> will use that :-P
[18:13] <smoser> right. no one. although maybe sometime soon honestly as we want to get c-i on centos
[18:14] <smoser> larsks, you probably have thoughts on my brpm stuff
[18:14] <smoser>  spec looks like thsi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22339840/
[18:14] <harlowja> so only other thing i'm not sure about is
[18:14] <harlowja> say i have a addon that doesn't really belong in cloud-init, but i need to add it into cloud-init
[18:15] <harlowja> i can show u this addon if u really care
[18:15] <harlowja> how do i make sure that the version number won't mess with the upstream one
[18:15] <smoser> by default, we dont bump the 'Release' as iunderstand thats like "packaging release" in debian and in order to get a new version of that, you  kind of had to bump the source release so 'Version' would go up.
[18:15] <harlowja> k
[18:15] <smoser> example ?
[18:16] <harlowja> a godaddy module addon
[18:16] <harlowja> config module
[18:16] <smoser> ah.
[18:16] <smoser> and you have patches/ that you use --patches ?
[18:16] <harlowja> this one its not yet a patch, but ya, its equivalent to
[18:17] <larsks> This is where I wish cloud-init using something like stevedore for discovering out-of-tree modules...
[18:17] <harlowja> right
[18:17] <harlowja> https://gist.github.com/harlowja/e6d79d1de62e0edd821bedf76bfd5a20
[18:17] <harlowja> smoser thats part of that module
[18:17] <harlowja> bunch of crap that getting out of puppet (doing it in puppet and half of it in cloud-init was causing stupid issues)
[18:17] <harlowja> so fixing that by just moving some of it to a cloud-nit module
[18:17] <smoser> right.
[18:17] <smoser> so how should we do that?
[18:18] <harlowja> so stevedore is one option
[18:18] <smoser> you want yours to be bigger than trunk or something.
[18:18] <smoser> the version ?
[18:18] <smoser> is that what we're talking about ?
[18:18] <harlowja> well i either need the release to be bigger or smaller :-P
[18:18] <smoser> yeah, larsks i do want to support out-of-tree moduels.
[18:18] <smoser> and datasources.
[18:18] <harlowja> oorrr go the path of larsks with stevedore
[18:19] <harlowja> i can cook up osmething with stevedore
[18:19] <smoser> we already have enough dynamic loading
[18:19] <harlowja> (yet another runtime dep...)
[18:19] <smoser> we dont need to add stevedoor for it.
[18:19] <harlowja> stevedore is just a tiny wrapper over entrypoints
[18:19] <harlowja> which is a python thing
[18:19] <smoser> and /me cries everytime he runs a stevedore-using executable
[18:19] <harlowja> stevedore shouldn't make u cry
[18:19] <smoser> stat stat stat stat stat disk io disk io
[18:19] <harlowja> its pretty dinky in all reality
[18:20]  * larsks cries every time he sees another project re-implement the same basic features.
[18:20] <harlowja> stevedore is a light layer over the python entrypoints stuff
[18:20] <harlowja> so either use stevedore, or i just use entrypoints like stevedore is doing
[18:20] <harlowja> cloud-init right now has its custom thing
[18:20] <smoser> i dont know.
[18:20] <harlowja> https://github.com/openstack/stevedore/blob/master/stevedore/extension.py#L147
[18:20] <harlowja> thats really the 'thing' that does this, lol
[18:20] <smoser> i'm very much feeling pain of startup performance right now.
[18:20] <harlowja> 'eps = list(pkg_resources.iter_entry_points(namespace))'
[18:21] <harlowja> mainly that, ha
[18:21] <smoser> and also feel pain of external dependencies.
[18:21] <harlowja> the rest of stevedore is just lue
[18:21] <harlowja> *glue
[18:21] <harlowja> so i'm in the middle between larsks and smoser
[18:21] <harlowja> in that if i could use something like entrypoints
[18:21] <larsks> An entrypoints-based internal implementation would I guess be fine.
[18:21] <harlowja> then i can get rid of this complexity :-P
[18:22] <harlowja> larsks ya, i can easily make something dinky using entrypoints
[18:22] <harlowja> its not really that hard, ha
[18:22] <harlowja> https://github.com/openstack/stevedore/blob/master/stevedore/extension.py#L153 is the loop, and the other code is the finding
[18:22] <harlowja> not magical crazy stuff, ha
[18:22] <harlowja> which is why stevedore is a dinky layer
[18:23] <larsks> Yeah.  also, pkg_resources.iter_entry_points may have most of what we need...
[18:23] <harlowja> yup
[18:25] <smoser> so 2 thigns i'd like to support out of tree
[18:25] <smoser> a.) config modules
[18:25] <smoser> b.) datasources
[18:25] <smoser> and thats easy enough to "find" them.
[18:25] <smoser> but getting them into the right order is somethign we dont have. no way to declare a dependency or something.
[18:25] <smoser> so at the momemnt a list of datasources and a list of modules at each stage.
[18:26] <smoser> harlowja, so back to your version / thing...
[18:26] <smoser> what were you saying ?
[18:26] <larsks> smoser: well, config modules get an ordering from cloud.cfg.
[18:26] <smoser> does using that version with a git cause issues for you?
[18:26] <harlowja> smoser i forget
[18:26] <smoser> larsks, ah. yeah, but not if they're just laid down on disk.
[18:26] <smoser> ie, ideally you just put new modules in some directory and they get found
[18:26] <smoser> and datasources too
[18:26] <harlowja> someway of making sure that a godaddy built cloud-init.rpm doesn't use the same stuff (Version...) as a public cloud-init.rpm
[18:27] <smoser> harlowja, we could expose branch
[18:27] <larsks> harlowja: add a suffix to the package name (cloud-init-godaddy) and make it obsolete the other one?
[18:27] <smoser> in the spec
[18:27] <harlowja> larsks ah, that might work to
[18:27] <harlowja> until we have this stevedore and ... stuff
[18:28] <harlowja> then i can get out of this :-P
[18:29] <larsks> smoser: looked briefly at your brpm changes, which seem fine, but there is a weird try/except block at the top of brpm that seems to be a noop (it catches any exception...and raises it)
[18:35] <smoser> larsks, yeah its stupid
[18:35] <smoser> for flake8
[18:35] <smoser> it complains about module level imports not at top of filel
[18:37] <smoser> harlowja, you know of a nicer way to work around that ?
[18:37] <harlowja> not sure
[18:38] <larsks> smoser, I don't see that if I remove the try/except block.  no complaints from flake8 (https://asciinema.org/a/bbqseaf84npuoon71hciwvc99)
[18:38] <larsks> (where flake8 == 2.4.1)
[18:39] <smoser> how'd you do that larsks ?
[18:40] <larsks> do which?
[18:40] <smoser> the asciicinima thing
[18:40] <larsks> https://asciinema.org/
[18:40] <larsks> There is a simple 'asciinema' cli tool
[18:41] <larsks> Looks like you need a ppa for ubuntu.  Seems to be packaged for fedora and debian...
[18:41] <smoser> well, its really pep8 . pep8 1.7.0 here does not like it.
[18:41] <larsks> Interesting.  I seem to have 1.5.7.  I guess I would add a comment there, otherwise everyone who looks at the code is going to ask the same question :)
[18:41] <smoser> yeah
[18:41] <smoser> deal
[18:42] <harlowja> hmmm asciinema neat
[18:45] <smoser> if "avoid-pep8-E402-import-not-top-of-file":
[18:46] <smoser>   import ...
[18:46] <smoser> committing that
[19:16] <smoser> harlowja,
[19:16] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1603533
[19:16] <smoser> is fix committed ?
[19:22] <harlowja> i think so
[19:23] <harlowja> assuming its still carried forward with the git stuff (and not lost)
[21:46] <smoser> hey all. i have some changes here locally.
[21:47] <smoser> i'm going to mark a 0.7.7 release soon. tonight or tomorrow.
[21:47] <smoser> and call it released.
[21:47] <smoser> and then we can work towards a quick 0.7.8 iteration on that.
[21:47] <smoser> the git stuff now in i think.
[22:03] <JayF> smoser: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/101007.html is something you might find interesting
[22:37] <harlowja> cool
[23:29] <tz__> anyone have a snippet that shows how to pull a repo from github?  I have http://pastie.org/private/kpnunfkgktxxse2m4xwsga , but problems ensue


[02:41] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Fridge:: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 554 @ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2018/11/19/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-554/ (by guiverc)
[03:13] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Michael Kellat: Hitting a Break Point @ http://skellat.freeshell.org/blog/hitting-a-break-point.html
[09:28] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Kelly: Composing AST Matchers in clang-tidy @ https://steveire.wordpress.com/2018/11/20/composing-ast-matchers-in-clang-tidy/
[10:32] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Rhonda D'Vine: TDOR 2018 @ http://rhonda.deb.at/blog/2018/11/20#tdor2018
[13:47] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Shadow of the Tomb Raider Is Coming to Linux and Mac in 2019 @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-is-coming-to-linux-and-mac-in-2019-523885.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[18:14] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Costales: Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day: Thanks Rudy (~cm-t)! @ http://thinkonbytes.blogspot.com/2018/11/ubuntu-community-appreciation-day.html (by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Marcos Costales))
[19:04] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Total War: WARHAMMER II Is Out Now on Linux and Mac, Ported by Feral Interactive @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/total-war-warhammer-ii-is-out-now-on-linux-and-mac-ported-by-feral-interactive-523868.shtml (by Marius Nestor)


[23:39] <articpenguin3800> where does the source package get stored
[23:39] <val0> Alyxander is there a difference between the two commands? (I really don't know :D)
[23:40] <Alyxander> purge removes the app and all its configs
[23:40] <miladen> Alyxander whats the difference
[23:40] <Alyxander> err sorry purge removes the app and all its configs
[23:40] <Alyxander> and i use apptitude because it gives a better dependency resolution
[23:41] <val0> Alyxander and apt-get remove just removes the app but doesn't remove the configs?
[23:41] <Alyxander> yup
[23:41] <Alyxander> or it may miss one
[23:41] <val0> oh nice, learn something new every day! thanks!
[23:42] <miladen> can i install an app for debian on kubuntu?
[23:42] <Alyxander> np
[23:42] <SlimeyPete> miladen: sometimes, but it's not guaranteed. It's always best to use adept or apt-get to install apps.
[23:42] <Alyxander> or aptitude
[23:42] <miladen> ok its just gimpshop
[23:43] <ubbill> im new to linux
[23:43] <ubbill> any tips?
[23:43] <miladen> gimpshop is nowhere to be found in adept SlimeyPete
[23:44] <SlimeyPete> miladen: oh right, I guess the .deb is your only option then
[23:44] <Datalanche> ubbill: Try everything, play around, have fun. :)
[23:44] <ubbill> data, i am sick of windows
[23:44] <SlimeyPete> ubbill: first tip is to find Adept in the menu and use it to install some software
[23:44] <SlimeyPete> ubbill: that's the first thing to learn, then just use google, IRC and forums to learn more :)
[23:45] <ol_dude67> ubbill, and remember this is not windows, its better.
[23:45] <Odd-rationale> ubbill: Second tip is to read the Help files. Good stuff.
[23:45] <val0> ubbill check this out too: http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/commands.htm
[23:45] <Odd-rationale> *its different.
[23:45] <ubbill> ok, one question i had was that i have everything (my word documents, powerpoint pictures, etc.) on an external harddrive...is getting to it just a matter of plugging the drive in?
[23:45] <ubbill> val, will def check out that site
[23:46] <val0> ubbill should be :D
[23:46] <Datalanche> ubbill: Most likely. You can try it when you are running from the LiveCD to see it it works or not.
[23:46] <Odd-rationale> ubbill: Pretty much. Is your ext hdd ntfs?
[23:46] <Dr_willis> ubbill,  plug it in and see. it should work.. but theres been a bit of an issue lately with Kubuntu accessing external ntfs drives as a user.
[23:46] <val0> ubbill i have an external 500gig and everything worked
[23:46] <ubbill> yes it is ntfs
[23:46] <ubbill> as we speak i am installing linux to the harddrive
[23:46] <Odd-rationale> ubbill: You may have to mount it manually from the command line.
[23:47] <ubbill> odd-ratinale it worked
[23:47] <SlimeyPete> !ntfs
[23:47] <ubotu> To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions - For write access, see /msg ubotu NTFS-3g or /msg ubotu FUSE
[23:48] <Odd-rationale> ubbill: Good for you.
[23:48] <ubbill> i think im in love ! linux is so much faster
[23:48] <Datalanche> It sure can be.
[23:49] <Odd-rationale> ubbill: BTW here's a tip. You can use <tab> to auto complete many things. e.g. odd<tab> and you get my name!  That is how I started off.
[23:51] <Dioxin> ok
[23:51] <Alyxander> ty
[23:51] <Dioxin> I have problems running the livecd should I just give up and use the alternate one?
[23:52] <Odd-rationale> Dioxin: One tip is to disconnect all other hdd's including all internal ones. That way GRUB will automatically install in the right place.
[23:52] <miladen> you should think this would help
[23:52] <miladen> http://gimpshop.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1197574338
[23:52] <Dioxin> bah... I really didnt want to pop open my laptop
[23:52] <miladen> the official guide
[23:52] <miladen> but it doesnt help
[23:52] <SlimeyPete> Dioxin: the alternate CD might be the easiest option, yes
[23:52] <miladen> it suc
[23:53] <Dioxin> yeah guessed as much :D 58% so far
[23:53] <Dioxin> and a silly question... kubuntu or ubuntu whats the difference beside the gui?
[23:53] <Odd-rationale> Dioxin: OK. Then make sure you select to install GRUB on your ext hdd, not internal.
[23:53] <Odd-rationale> Dioxin: Not much
[23:53] <Dragnslcr> Dioxin- nothing
[23:53] <Dioxin> is it just personal preference?
[23:53] <Dioxin> even for the gui
[23:54] <Dragnslcr> Pretty much
[23:54] <Odd-rationale> Some liek to say speed, but...
[23:55] <Dioxin> ok now for a really important question... does kubunbtu have that really cool desktop effects package :D
[23:55] <Dioxin> on 7.10
[23:55] <Odd-rationale> Dioxin: Nope
[23:55] <Dioxin> gah!
[23:56] <Odd-rationale> Dioxin: But you can easily install it.
[23:56] <Taggnostr> is there a way in dolphin to see the file type among the column in the details view? I only have name/size/date and I can't find a way to add more columns
[23:56] <Odd-rationale> Dioxin: I can give you some links...
[23:56] <Dioxin> well its on the ubuntu cd at least :D
[23:56] <vzduch> Krusader ftw :)
[23:56] <Dioxin> let me get it installed first
[23:57] <Dioxin> I'm prolly going to be using the command prompt more than the flash windows anyhow
[23:57] <nosrednaekim> Taggnostr: you probably can't... dolphin is no where near configureable enough IMO
[23:57] <hola> how is possible to mount a partition on server in order to be able to see it from clent?
[23:57] <Dioxin> hola be sysadmin?
[23:57] <drcode> any one know editor for python somthing call pika?
[23:58] <hdevalence> is there a GHNS thing for KDE themes?
[23:58] <Dioxin> Hola: either that or once you mount it you need to set permissions I guess
[23:58] <nosrednaekim> drcode: never heard of it
[23:59] <drcode> other good editor?
[23:59] <drcode> I use scitech
[23:59] <hola> Dioxin: sorry what is sysadmin
[23:59] <Taggnostr> nosrednaekim, is there something better?
[23:59] <nosrednaekim> drcode: I use kate ;-)
[23:59] <Dioxin> Hola: Sysadmin is a person
[23:59] <nosrednaekim> Taggnostr: yeah... konqueror.
[23:59] <drcode> I want to run my program directly from the editor


[06:06] <lamont> doko:   * Reenable the workaround for a build failure on the ia64 buildd.
[06:06] <lamont> what's that gdb changelog entry referring to?
[06:07] <doko> lamont: it hangs in make check 2>&1 | tee log, now its >log 2>%1
[06:08] <lamont> how very strange


[01:27] <kendfinger> Will Launchpad ever get project Wikis?
[09:57] <dwarder> is it all about ti 430 ?
[09:57] <dwarder> i.e. this product http://www.ti.com/tool/msp-exp430g2 ?
[09:59] <dwarder> i guess no
[11:05] <audifahrer> hi
[11:06] <audifahrer> I've a build problem: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/98483725/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.stateval_0.1-0~201203270111~oneiric1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:06] <audifahrer> ../../src/lib/.libs/libstateval.so: undefined reference to `pthread_mutex_trylock'
[11:06] <audifahrer> ../../src/lib/.libs/libstateval.so: undefined reference to `pthread_create'
[11:06] <audifahrer> ../../src/lib/.libs/libstateval.so: undefined reference to `pthread_join'
[11:06] <audifahrer> don't understand this because on my ubuntu machine it builds
[11:07] <audifahrer> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tux-style/stateval/stateval/view/head:/src/player/Makefile.am
[11:07] <audifahrer> I have $(PTHREAD_LIBS) in stateval_player_LDADD so it should work. Or should I replace it by LIBADD?
[11:08] <doko_> it's not player which needs the symbols but libstateval
[11:09] <audifahrer> ok
[11:09] <audifahrer> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tux-style/stateval/stateval/view/head:/src/lib/Makefile.am
[11:09] <audifahrer> but this has  $(PTHREAD_LIBS) in LIBADD which should be correct
[19:35] <audifahrer> Hi
[19:36] <audifahrer> I tried for hours but I still don't find why my librarys example doesn't link in launchpad because of pthreads: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/98483725/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.stateval_0.1-0~201203270111~oneiric1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[19:36] <audifahrer> building localy in ubuntu all works
[19:36] <audifahrer> https://code.launchpad.net/~tux-style/stateval/stateval
[19:36] <audifahrer> any ideas?
[19:38] <seswu> audifahrer, Sorry no, I was about to ask a question of my own :>
[19:40] <micahg> audifahrer: oneiric uses the --no-add-needed flag by default, so you need to specify all libraries to be linked to on the linker line, see http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking#Not_resolving_symbols_in_indirect_dependent_shared_libraries
[19:50] <seswu> *ponders if that answer resolved the question?*
[19:50]  * seswu guesses so.
[19:52] <seswu> I'd like to install an oldish game on xubuntu. It apparently uses gtk 1.2 and has trouble because I have gtk 2.20. So.. it appears I want to install gtk 1.2 as well, I'm not sure if that will cause issues. And also I'm not sure how to install via launchpad, which seems to have the package while the official archives does not.
[19:52]  * seswu overloaded the buffer. Darn.
[19:52] <seswu> I'd like to install an oldish game on xubuntu. It apparently uses gtk 1.2 and has trouble because I have gtk 2.20.
[19:53] <seswu> So it seems I want to install gtk 1.2. I'm not sure if that will cause issues?
[19:53] <micahg> seswu: support in #ubuntu or #xubuntu
[19:54] <seswu> micahg: Ok, thank you :>
[20:18] <audifahrer> micahg: hm, thanks for that hint. But I doesn't find how this helps me for my specific problem. I give PTHREAD_LIBS to my binary application LDFLAGS in Makefile.am. So I don't expect pthread to be linked by the library.
[20:19] <micahg> sorry, I don't have time to help with this right now, #ubuntu-packaging might have someone that can help
[21:11] <BadDesign> Can I recover a Launchpad deleted a few years ago if I still have the email address associated with it?
[21:12] <BadDesign> *deleted Launchpad account
[21:13] <BadDesign> nvm


[08:16] <alkisg> Hi, so far 3 schools reported black screen+hang after upgrading from 4.15.0-47 to -48+: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7771.0;attach=5029;image
[08:16] <alkisg> But when they installed linux-generic-hwe, the problem was gone, so I'm not sure it's worth it to pinpoint the regression;
[08:16] <alkisg> so I'm just mentioning it in case it becomes more frequent...
[08:34] <tjaalton> alkisg: ancient hw?
[08:34] <tjaalton> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1819486
[08:35] <tjaalton> assuming it's i915
[08:38] <alkisg> dimitris@HPEliteDesk:~$ lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
[08:38] <alkisg> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0412] (rev 06)	Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller [103c:18e5]	Kernel driver in use: i915
[08:38] <alkisg> tjaalton: that's the only info I have, from one of those schools
[08:39] <alkisg> They didn't have any issues up to -48 though; this issue mentions that -46 had a problem...
[08:41] <tjaalton> that's something else then and not related to graphics
[08:42] <alkisg> Thank you tjaalton; if it becomes more frequent I'll have a deeper look
[08:42] <tjaalton> file a bug
[08:45] <alkisg> I don't feel well to file bugs when it's not easy to provide feedback; if I can reproduce in the office that's easy;
[08:45] <alkisg> if not, I VNC to the school, but e.g. now that they had that easy workaround with -hwe, they wouldn't want the downtime involved to send a lot of debug information, as it usually means teachers can't give lessons then
[08:45] <alkisg> So they are only very happy to give debug info when they don't have workarounds :D
[08:46] <tjaalton> k


[08:53] <hpeter> hi
[08:57] <benonsoftware> Hello hpeter
[08:57] <hpeter> can somebody tell me what the anonymous checkout/branch address for this project would look like?
[08:57] <hpeter> mailman = bzr bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/3.0/
[08:57] <hpeter> i'm doing this with mr.developer inside a python buildout
[08:58] <StevenK> hpeter: Instead of bzr+ssh:// , http://
[08:59] <hpeter> StevenK: thanx, works
[11:35] <ciupicri> is it to me or I need to send the referrer in order to login to launchpad and also reset my passowrd?
[12:04] <geser> you need a referrer to interact with LP
[13:54] <s9iper1> any body help me in signing the pgp key
[13:54] <s9iper1> ?
[13:55] <s9iper1> i am in the mid i have sent it to server and its it imported to launchpad but the other steps are not understandable by me some lines of wiki page any body help
[17:20] <ciupicri> is it to me or I need to send the HTTP referrer field in order to login to launchpad and also reset my passowrd?
[18:30] <mano> hello, when launchpad builds my package i got this error: http://pastebin.com/BEt8Dkhm  anyone know why?
[20:42] <leo-unglaub> hey guys..i have a question
[20:43] <leo-unglaub> how can there are build .deb packages if a project don't contain the debian folder with the control file?
[20:43] <leo-unglaub> how is this possible on launchpad?


[04:09] <charlie-tca> Good Evening
[04:13] <Unit193> Howdy charlie-tca! Having a good time and getting good info?
[04:15] <charlie-tca> This is a terrific experience.
[04:16] <charlie-tca> The information takes a bit to sort out, for me. I will need to go over the notes and blueprints to get things staight.
[04:18] <charlie-tca> I highly recommend anyone that gets the chance should really go to UDS
[04:20] <Unit193> Do you also record them?
[04:20] <charlie-tca> no, I don t carry the computer to the sessions
[04:21] <charlie-tca> However, every streamed session is available after UDS for those who want to listen to them.
[04:22] <Unit193> I'll check them out! (I have been to 2 remote sessions)
[04:22] <charlie-tca> Great! I will keep an eye out and let you know when I see them available
[05:01] <charlie-tca> Well, breakfast time here. Will be back much later.
[10:01] <RawChid> Hello
[10:01] <RawChid> Can anybody tell me how the translations of Xubuntu are done? Via Launchpad?
[10:07] <TheSheep> !rosetta
[10:09] <RawChid> Thnx, I'm aware of that
[10:10] <RawChid> I'm a translator of Ubuntu. Can you give me more hints? Can't find it directly on https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team
[10:12] <RawChid> I want to help to get upstream translations from XFCE into Xubuntu
[10:16] <TheSheep> I don't know the details, maybe someone else.
[10:57] <RawChid> https://code.launchpad.net/xfconf
[10:57] <mr_pouit> RawChid: translations are done upstream exclusively (because things translated on LP often only benefit ubuntu and aren't often shared with other distros, or even upstream)
[10:57] <mr_pouit> https://translations.xfce.org/
[10:57] <RawChid> Looks like the translations from transifex imported automatically?
[10:59] <ochosi> 'lo mr_pouit :)
[10:59] <RawChid> Oke, thanks
[11:00] <RawChid> One question, who is responsible for up-to-date translations? The Xubutnu maintainer right?
[11:00] <RawChid> I mean, that the translations are up-to-date with XFCE
[11:02] <mr_pouit> yes, simply file a bug if you want some translations to be updated/included. But it's very unlikely to happen for stable releases (e.g. maverick, natty), unless one translation is completely broken or misleading.
[11:02] <mr_pouit> and for the development release (oneiric), new translations are included when packaging new upstream releases usually
[11:02] <RawChid> mr_pouit, someone has just made great progress in Dutch translations
[11:04] <RawChid> Where to file a bug?
[11:04] <RawChid> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev ?
[11:04] <mr_pouit> RawChid: which package is it?
[11:05] <tigerw> hey whats up with encrypted homedir bugging on occasion I will paste code
[11:05] <RawChid> mr_pouit, several packages
[11:05] <mr_pouit> then it's better to file one bug for each affected ubuntu package
[11:05] <RawChid> Where to file the bugs?
[11:06] <mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<package name>
[11:06] <mr_pouit> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfconf for xfconf
[11:06] <RawChid> Ack


[14:40] <yrdsb> Op can I have a 1 hour +q on the #ubuntu channel
[14:41] <hggdh> yrdsb: all you need to do is /part


[01:56] <cyberanger> seems the irc channels I'm in either have gotten quiet or a little too big & fast
[01:58] <cyberanger> idk how that happened, just kinda funny I guess
[02:27] <wrst> well cyberanger #ubuntu-us-tn is just right.. :)
[02:34] <cyberanger> wrst: indeed
[02:35] <wrst> cyberanger: i'm getting my desktop set up at the new place I'm trimming it a little :)
[02:36]  * cyberanger wonders how much is getting trimmed
[02:36] <cyberanger> "sudo apt-get purge xorg" ?
[02:36] <Unit193> A corner or two of the monitor
[02:38] <wrst> cyberanger: actually this distro doesn't come with xorg by default ;)
[02:38] <cyberanger> arch or debian?
[02:39] <wrst> arch cyberanger i prefer using a web browser from the last 5 years :P
[02:39] <cyberanger> in that case, your debian installs are a version old at least
[02:40] <wrst> what is it about debian comes in old, stale, and.. something else? :)
[02:40] <Unit193> Sid
[02:40] <cyberanger> stable, testing and unstable (aka sid)
[02:41]  * wrst tried to make  a joke...
[02:41] <cyberanger> and old I guess is the previous stable (don't think that's really a class, more a way to insure one can upgrade)
[02:41] <wrst> cyberanger: sid still doesn't have gnome 3 or when i tried it a few weeks ago
[02:42] <cyberanger> sid might be unstable, but it's no dummy
[02:42] <cyberanger> oh, wait, I was thinking unity, hrm
[02:42]  * Unit193 knows someone using Sid
[02:42]  * cyberanger knows Unit193 knows another person using sid too
[02:43] <wrst> cyberanger: unity in 11.10 may make me eat some words
[02:44] <cyberanger> that's ok, unity is still making me dish out some words
[02:45] <wrst> it is improving by leaps and bounds
[02:46]  * cyberanger raises his deer fence
[02:48] <cyberanger> and I see gnome3 in debian, just not the default
[02:48] <wrst> yeah you have to jump through hoops to get it
[02:48] <cyberanger> they don't trust it or the developers are slow idk
[02:48] <wrst> and I really don't want gnome 2 then upgrade to gnome 3
[02:49]  * wrst has drunk the gnome-shell kool-aid
[02:49] <cyberanger> I don't think you need to grab both, and idk how many hoops there are (I bet less than it takes to get rid of unity on ubuntu, or get it working nicely)
[02:51] <wrst> yeah just wasn't worth the effort since its easy to get going on arch i really don't care about the distro anymore to be honest
[02:52] <wrst> as long as I can do what i need as easily as possible
[02:56] <wrst> good night all, time for bed
[02:57] <Unit193> wrst: Night!
[04:05] <cyberanger> wrst: night
[04:05] <cyberanger> in some ways I agree with that, focus on the task, not the distro
[04:06] <cyberanger> some distro's make the tasks easier though (for me debian is just that, ubuntu was, but not lately)
[10:44] <wrst> cyberanger: I think it just makes sense that way and not every distro for every person/task
[13:20] <cyberanger> true, true
[13:39] <cyberanger> I do think it's worth going outside that sole focus too
[13:40] <cyberanger> for example, you found arch as a desktop user (I'm guessing ubuntu as a server user) why?
[13:40] <cyberanger> why not debian, centos, scientific linux, freebsd, so on?
[13:42] <cyberanger> (I named more servers there, cause I think most arch users already answer that, most ubuntu users seem to just follow a link from lifehacker or maximumpc, or another source (hey it got me started on knoppix & led me to ubuntu, nothing wrong with it either))
[13:43] <wrst> cyberanger: yes I think for me ubuntu is killer on the server
[16:16] <cyberanger> wrst: idk, I could see debian fit just as easily
[16:16] <cyberanger> what's on your server, ssh & quassel-core, more?
[16:17] <wrst> print/file server cyberanger
[16:17] <cyberanger> as in samba?
[16:17] <wrst> i use it for bzr
[16:17] <wrst> cyberanger: ipp on the printers and i have samba on the file sharing for my wife's macbook which really makes no sense but she was on winders when i sat it up
[16:18] <wrst> cyberanger: the documetnation I help with we write then use bzr for it and also use the server to build it and host it so I can look and get others to look at it as built
[16:18] <cyberanger> ok, and bzr, so debian could also fit (probally easier to upgrade with that, or just set it for testing)
[16:19] <cyberanger> oh, you use your server for hosting bzr & a build box?
[16:21] <wrst> yeah just for documentation making html, not a big deal
[16:22] <wrst> and have used it to mass convert a few things using ffmpeg
[16:23] <cyberanger> ah, to me then it sounds like debian testing would be for you there
[16:24] <cyberanger> not too cutting edge, a step short of rolling release, doesn't get much closer
[16:25] <cyberanger> that's where the two are closest since day one, serverss
[16:26] <wrst> i'm pretty happy with ubuntu as the setup is just a breeze
[16:26] <cyberanger> yeah, but a thought when you want to upgrade from breezy ;-)
[16:36] <cyberanger> well, now comes the hard choice of the day, travel to my own place or take a 2hr wardrive
[16:37]  * cyberanger wonders why he has to choose
[16:37] <cyberanger> both !
[16:37] <cyberanger> see you all in a little while
[16:55] <wrst> see you and cyberanger
[19:16] <wrst> hey chris4585 how you doing?
[19:16] <chris4585> hey wrst, I'm alright, you?
[19:17] <wrst> donig well chris4585, I installed arch last night using the latest install media, they are making it too easy :)
[19:17] <chris4585> yeah, well I had an issue with my install, something is screwing my graphics up
[19:18] <chris4585> so I'm trying to wait it out until an update fixes something... so I'm on my laptop atm
[19:18] <wrst> the new install media is similar to the debian installer somewhat
[19:18] <wrst> what happened chris4585?
[19:18] <chris4585> I updated :P
[19:18] <chris4585> lol
[19:18] <chris4585> everything is so glitchy
[19:19] <chris4585> I really wish I had intel graphics...
[19:19] <wrst> hmm nvidia?
[19:19] <chris4585> yep
[19:21] <wrst> my nvidia hooked up sli was no issue at all last night chris4585 :\
[19:22] <chris4585> well I have no idea what caused it, it was fine and I don't think I had a nvidia update
[19:27] <wrst> that's odd chris4585, i just reinstalled because my partitioning was sorta messed up
[19:27] <wrst> wish i had a solution for you :\
[19:28] <chris4585> its alright
[19:28] <Unit193> Still on Oneiric?
[19:32] <wrst> who Unit193? :)
[19:34] <Unit193> I thought chris was, but I could be thinking of someone else...
[19:37] <chris4585> I was, but ditch it for arch
[19:49] <Xpistos> hey all
[19:49] <Xpistos> been sick a bit
[19:57] <chris4585> strange, wrst, looks like the fallback grub option is working?
[19:58] <wrst> Xpistos: feeling better?
[19:58] <wrst> chris4585: hmm
[19:58] <wrst> 3.0 kernel mess you up?
[19:58] <Xpistos> sume what
[19:59] <chris4585> maybe... looks like I'm on 3.0
[19:59] <chris4585> well I updated again, lets see what normal boot up will do..
[20:02] <chris4585> woot, seems like updating fixed whatever happened
[20:02] <chris4585> I knew waiting it out would work...
[20:02] <wrst> cool chris4585!
[20:04] <wrst> why hello Guest13902
[20:15] <wrst> wb chris4585
[20:16] <chris4585> thanks wrst
[20:16] <chris4585> I wonder what caused my issue..
[20:16] <chris4585> I had to resort to my laptop (annoying) for my main computer :/
[20:46] <wrst> i generally use my laptop as my main one, but my desktop for heavier duty stuff
[21:08] <wrst> wb twayneprice :)


[08:05] <lotuspsychje> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/09/ubuntu-19-10-faster-boot-lz4
[08:28] <tarzeau> lotuspsychje: we use that since over a year, but with xz,  how does it compare to that?
[08:28] <tarzeau> mainly because /boot got full
[08:29] <tarzeau> https://catchchallenger.first-world.info/wiki/Quick_Benchmark:_Gzip_vs_Bzip2_vs_LZMA_vs_XZ_vs_LZ4_vs_LZO#The_file_test_results
[08:29] <tarzeau> i'll stay with xz
[08:29] <tarzeau> we hardly ever reboot
[08:30] <lotuspsychje> cool
[08:30] <lotuspsychje> might be more handy for regular desktops
[08:31] <tarzeau> best thing ever, if you ask me. we also use zram and btrfs fs compression
[08:31] <tarzeau> and eatmydata for all the deb packages installation (speed boost 100%), about 4500 packages
[08:31] <tarzeau> and now i test mimalloc for special applications
[08:32] <tarzeau> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931079
[08:32] <lotuspsychje> !info eatmydata
[08:32] <tarzeau> you basically call eatmydata apt-get install all your 4500 packages
[08:32] <lotuspsychje> cool
[08:32] <lotuspsychje> didnt know that1
[08:33] <tarzeau> we got install times from 2-4 hours down to 0.5-1 hours (without ssd)
[08:33] <tarzeau> d-i even has support for it, which we didn't turn on still
[08:33] <lotuspsychje> huge improvement!
[08:46] <lotuspsychje> tarzeau: im gonna skip 19.10 and start with 20.04 devel :p
[08:47] <tarzeau> i'm on 19.10, and wait for 20.04 to become available (the code name is what?)
[08:47] <lotuspsychje> no codename yet before 19.10 release
[08:47] <lotuspsychje> but my bets are= funky flamingo :p
[08:50] <tarzeau> still 34 days until release according to http://bootes.ethz.ch/bts/
[08:50] <lotuspsychje> !19.10
[08:51] <tarzeau> wonder when maps.ubuntu.com comes
[08:51] <lotuspsychje> whats maps gonna do tarzeau
[08:51] <tarzeau> like maps.google.com or maps.apple.com
[08:51] <tarzeau> but in ubuntu colors, hah
[08:51] <lotuspsychje> lol
[13:02] <tarzeau> will ubuntu 20.04 default to wayland or not?
[13:03] <lotuspsychje> no
[13:03] <lotuspsychje> i think ive seen an article it will be still xorx tarzeau
[13:03] <lotuspsychje> *xorg
[13:04] <tarzeau> can you find that article again?
[13:04] <lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=No-Wayland-Default-20.04-LTS
[13:05] <tarzeau> thanks!
[13:05] <lotuspsychje> welcome tarzeau
[13:06] <tarzeau> one reason less to switch back to debian from ubuntu
[13:06] <tarzeau> but the forced chromium snap still is a big reason to
[13:06] <tarzeau> we already have debian, just not for workstations (only servers)
[13:06] <tarzeau> but i have absolutely no strong opinion to stay with ubuntu
[13:07] <lotuspsychje> i would help you if we had a wishlist tarzeau but i know not enough of the reason why they want snap only chromium7
[13:07] <lotuspsychje> -7
[13:07] <tarzeau> ah popularity-contest, popcon.debian.org would work again, unlike popcon.ubuntu.com
[13:07] <tarzeau> fine for me, need to find more reasons to switch to debian, only issue might be about nvidia cuda repo if that stuff doesn't work with debian i'm out of luck
[13:07] <lotuspsychje> tarzeau: can you come up with a decent reason we could create a bug, to NOT have snap only?
[13:08] <lotuspsychje> as community we got some powers too right
[13:08] <tarzeau> no, they're fully onto the systemd, gnome, snapcraft.io
[13:08] <tarzeau> i doubt
[13:08] <tarzeau> i feel part of the debian community, and there i can make software packages. :)
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> tarzeau: well, if the snap version doesnt do what you need it to, then lets file a bug there?
[13:09] <tarzeau> and the reason i run kfreebsd clearly is systemd can't infect it
[13:09] <tarzeau> lotuspsychje: and they'll fix it and make it work with snap?
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> yes, but then your issue could be solved?
[13:09] <tarzeau> i'm not using any single snap. we remove it completely from all our ubuntu machines
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> right i see
[13:10] <tarzeau> ah on that single package. who knows if they'll mass migrate more packages to snap?
[13:10] <lotuspsychje> tarzeau: i got an rss news stream @ ##techrss you should see the daily snap releases..
[13:11] <lotuspsychje> they surely will move more stuff towards it my guess
[13:12] <tarzeau> can i view them with a web browser? i don't have an rss reader
[13:12] <tarzeau> they'll end up in version hell, and bug reports
[13:12] <tarzeau> unmanagable
[13:12] <lotuspsychje> few last ones: <[GH0ST]> News from snaps: New Snap: nax <https://uappexplorer.com/snap/ubuntu/nax>
 News from snaps: New Snap: proxyproxy <https://uappexplorer.com/snap/ubuntu/proxyproxy>
[13:14] <tomreyn> your web browser is anything but the kitchensink, including an rss reader
[13:16] <lotuspsychje> tomreyn: what do you think of this chromium going snappy?
[13:17] <tomreyn> maintaining chromium-browser as a rolling release is probably easier as a snap than as a .deb
[13:17] <lotuspsychje> i kinda understand tarzeau too in heavy mass use/production they dont want to choose snaps
[13:18] <tarzeau> with debs we are in control what we update and what not, with snaps we are not
[13:18] <tarzeau> and if snaps are loaded in memory and get updated, old ones removes
[13:18] <lotuspsychje> yeah auto snap refresh in dmesg all over here
[13:18] <tarzeau> that's bad for the user. we have machines with uptimes more than a day, and software also keeps staying in memory
[13:18] <lotuspsychje> the logs have an own life these days tarzeau
[13:19] <tarzeau> we centrally log stuff, can be turned off by filter
[13:19] <lotuspsychje> just for fun i put on a daily journalctl -f
[13:32] <tomreyn> oh i can totally understand and appreciate the stance of a company admin wanting to have controllable deployments of application versions / states.
[13:33] <tomreyn> (and on a personal level, too, actually)
[13:36] <tomreyn> on the other hand, if there are no patched packages you can upgrade to, since the software is not in main/restrcited, but is security critical to desktops, then you *might* actually want to accept the limitations / issues snaps introduce. or choose to use a software that is in main instead.
[13:37] <tomreyn> (or use 3rd party builds of this software)
[13:49] <tarzeau> we accept anything but snaps (nor flatpaks or appimages)
[13:49] <tarzeau> running an own reprepro for patching broken stuff (which is not small)
[13:49] <tarzeau> bionic, 286 packages
[13:50] <tarzeau> can provide a list/dump of the names if interested?
[13:50] <tarzeau> ah 233 really (excluding the i386 stuff)
[15:27] <tarzeau> lotuspsychje: it's fun how ltsp guys remove snapd though: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu
[15:28] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu-server has the choice right for snap/non-snap if i recall?
[18:42] <tomreyn> tarzeau: were you saying you're doing your own security patches on top of packages which are not / no longer in 18.04 as .deb's?
[18:43] <tomreyn> and chromium-browser is one of those?


[02:26] <diddledan> can anyone else get to the bbc news site?
[02:26] <diddledan> I seem to be stalling on loading images and javascripts and things
[03:50] <nigelb> diddledan: wfm. Do you have a particularly broken link?
[03:50] <nigelb> Also, http or https?
[03:50] <nigelb> (I'm hitting bbc.com though)
[04:36] <mapp> hey
[10:14] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:23] <zertyui> hi
[10:24] <zertyui> there
[10:24] <zertyui> when doing ls -rtl
[10:24] <zertyui> is it possible to see the complete th ?
[10:37] <shauno> like doing ls -rtl | less   ?
[11:07]  * bashrc fixes emacs configuration
[11:26] <ujjain> whats the song called...
[11:26] <ujjain> it´s blabla oclock in soho....
[11:26] <ujjain> london band
[11:26] <ujjain> old music
[14:41] <MooDoo> afternoon all
[14:41] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[14:42] <bashrc> afternoon
[16:11] <Banana_> my screen artifacts returned. All day last night my system was working normal and before a update (i think it was) i havest experienced screen artifacts for 4 months
[17:42] <penguin42> damn, Amazon has started to understand me; it's offered me a 1kg bag of chocolate coffee beans
[17:52] <SuperEngineer> penguin42, tell them I want those!
[17:53] <SuperEngineer> I lurrrrv chocolate coffee beans!
[17:55] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: http://www.amazon.co.uk/CAROL-ANNE-CHOCOLATE-COFFEE-BEANS/dp/B00CDW241Q/ref=sr_1_2?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1425750819&sr=1-2&keywords=chocolate+coffee+beans
[17:57] <SuperEngineer> penguin42, thank you
[17:57] <daftykins> hi all
[17:57] <daftykins> penguin42: hehe, you are powerless to resist!
[17:57] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Seems a reasonable price - if they're good
[17:58] <SuperEngineer> yup
[17:59]  * penguin42 had the first ice cream of the year today from an 'artisan' chocolate shop; very creamy, but frankly very unchocolatey :-(
[18:00] <daftykins> it was oddly sunny down here, too
[18:00] <daftykins> 12 deg C i believe
[18:00] <penguin42> it was lovely here
[18:01] <SuperEngineer> It was gorgously sunny here... went for a pint, drank it outside in the sun...
[18:01] <daftykins> :)
[18:01] <daftykins> i went to a cafe up north overlooking a harbour, bay and the neighbouring islands
[18:02] <SuperEngineer> ...&commented "oh what a glourious day, except for that awful wind"...
[18:02] <SuperEngineer> just as a woman passing farted.... perfect timing methinka
[18:02] <SuperEngineer> *methinks
[18:04] <daftykins> D:
[18:07] <daftykins> tsk tsk naughty CentOS users trying to get support in #ubuntu
[18:08] <daftykins> the bash prompt is such a giveaway 8D
[18:22] <SuperEngineer> penguin42, just ordered me some chocolate coffee beans.  Fingers crossed :)
[18:25] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Haha sorry about that; if you're still awake after a week then they're probably good
[18:31] <bashrc> Well Ubuntu MATE is running pretty well. It's old skool, but hey.
[18:32] <SuperEngineer> penguin42, I call chocolate coffee beans "chocolate driving means".. so here's hoping!
[18:32] <penguin42> bashrc: I quite like it; my dad mostly runs mate
[18:33] <bashrc> I ran Gnome 2 for years, so this is quite familiar. I expect it's also very lightweight and could run well on older hardware
[18:33] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: haha; M&S used to do some a few years back where it was chocolate coffee remolded into a bean shape that were great; no crunchy core but still a big kick
[18:34] <t7> stupid xchat-gnome opens this channel by default
[18:34] <t7> i have no idea how to stop it
[18:35] <bashrc> irssi ftw
[18:35] <t7> i dont like monospace fonts on irc
[18:35] <penguin42> because it looks like  i rc ?
[18:35] <t7> because its not code
[18:37] <t7> arg reinstalling OS is very stressful :)
[18:38] <t7> i should just go back to chatzilla
[18:38] <t7> even though firefox crashes so often and i lose irc connection
[18:39] <daftykins> i think the mistakes those that don't do OS installs often make, is they try to rush back.
[18:40] <t7> i just did 14.04 -> .10
[18:41] <penguin42> why would you reinstall for that?
[18:41] <t7> installed too much junk
[18:41] <daftykins> well we all know what the word 'upgrade' really means ;)
[18:41] <daftykins> i wouldn't fancy non-LTS personally :>
[18:41] <bashrc> 'Upgrade'?
[18:44] <t7> also, can i use docker or something to keep all my dev and DB stuff separate from OS ?
[18:44] <t7> i dont want postgres running all the time (when i wanna play games)
[18:44] <daftykins> eggs and baskets come to mind :)
[20:37] <penguin42> has anyone got the magic to get five.tv to work ?
[21:08] <diddledan> penguin42, I think it probably involves some kind of goat sacrifice
[21:08] <penguin42> diddledan: Well, I've tried that....
[21:09] <daftykins> XD
[21:10] <penguin42> I've got it playing on my Android Phone; but failed with Firefox (ubuntu and fedora) chrome (fedora)
[21:11] <penguin42> pleasently surprised it's managing it on CM
[21:12] <diddledan> I think it requires silverlight on desktop
[21:12] <penguin42> diddledan: No, it seems to be Flash based these days
[21:12] <penguin42> diddledan: but requires flash-drm
[21:12] <diddledan> hmm
[21:12] <zmoylan-pi> is flash more or less evil than silverlight these days? :-)
[21:12] <diddledan> that is supposed to work out of the box
[21:13] <penguin42> there are suggestions you need to install hald and *then* sacrifice a goat
[21:13] <shauno> I think that's really the only sane thing you can do with a goat once you've installed hald on it
[21:13] <diddledan> the flash bundled with googley edition chrome should support drm on 14.10
[21:14] <diddledan> I thought 14.04 had received the relevant patches, too
[21:14] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, that's why I installed chrome on ubuntu though, I tried it on fedora using chrome downloaded from google
[21:14] <penguin42> diddledan: What needs the patches?
[21:15] <SuperEngineer> you need a free range goat beforre it works
[21:15] <diddledan> penguin42, a library shipped with ubuntu
[21:15] <diddledan> nss?
[21:19] <penguin42> hmm
[21:20] <diddledan> lol @ full-disclosure mailing list: there's queries over java 8u40 being released and people questioning why there was an out-of-band (not scheduled) bugfix release. it's got to the point that a dude from oracle has had to step-in and point out that it's a feature release that's been planned for over a year
[21:21] <daftykins> oh dear :)
[21:21] <daftykins> were they frothing at the mouth and demanding answers as to what it 'fixed' ?
[21:21] <diddledan> hehe
[21:23] <SuperEngineer> ...here I am, brain the size of a planet....
[21:24] <penguin42> all the diodes down your left leg...
[21:24] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> that statement was made when pluto was considered a planet... :-P
[21:35] <diddledan> how many times have we re-classified pluto now?
[21:36] <shauno> 1
[21:36] <diddledan> really?
[21:36] <shauno> as I understand it, it just went from planet to dwarf-planet when we discovered there's other KBOs that are as big, if not bigger
[21:46] <diddledan> I thought they upgraded it again and then down a second time
[21:47] <daftykins> aww low battery already
[21:47] <diddledan> :-o
[21:48]  * zmoylan-pi glances at phone i've used all day and it still registers 100% :-)
[21:48] <daftykins> oh wrong chan
[21:48] <daftykins> i dug out my Nintendo DSi :D
[21:49] <zmoylan-pi> i tells ya that if nokia of yore had of made an electric car it would have the best range. :-)
[21:50] <zmoylan-pi> turning the indicators on would have involved 16 menu options though... :-D
[21:53] <zmoylan-pi> i quite liked the nintendo ds and the ds lite. very good solid hardware
[21:59] <daftykins> it was claiming 50% battery when i fired it up just now, hasn't been used in years
[21:59] <zmoylan-pi> ah the smart battery guage that guesses and adjusts over a batteries life...
[22:11] <daftykins> :)
[22:29] <diddledan> I still can't get anything from bbc.co.uk other than text
[22:29] <diddledan> it just sits there spinning chrome's loading icon
[22:30] <popey> wfm
[22:30] <diddledan> hmm weird
[22:30] <diddledan> everything else on the internet that I've tried works fine
[22:31] <diddledan> just bbc can't load imagery and video
[22:33] <diddledan> looks like js isn't loading eitehr
[22:34] <diddledan> weird, it's just this computer (maybe the browser)
[22:34] <diddledan> my mac loads it fine
[22:35] <daftykins> matching DNS config?
[22:35] <diddledan> should be - I do things with dhcp
[22:48] <diddledan> both systems are resolving static.bbci.co.uk the same way
[22:50] <diddledan> there's an error in the console from requirejs: http://requirejs.org/docs/errors.html#timeout <-- they helpfully don't mention the possibility that perhaps the server ain't responding
[22:51] <diddledan> their two likely causes are 1) the path is wrong, or 2) the developer put two scripts of the same id
[22:52] <shauno> do you have some variant of https-everywhere?
[22:52] <diddledan> noep
[22:53] <diddledan> I wonder why bbc set a cookie with a browser version string embedded?
[22:53] <diddledan> specifically: Mozilla/5.0%20(Windows%20NT%2010.0%3b%20WOW64)%20AppleWebKit/537.36%20(KHTML%2c%20like%20Gecko)%20Chrome/40.0.2214.111%20Safari/
[22:53] <shauno> that's a browser string?  it looks like ... all the browser strings
[22:54] <shauno> do you get a meaningful error if you go to one of the static assets directly?  eg http://static.bbci.co.uk/weather/0.5.284/images/icons/individual_56_icons/en_on_light_bg/8.gif  ?
[22:54] <diddledan> that loads
[22:54] <diddledan> this is pending: http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.83.4/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png
[22:54] <shauno> so it can load them, but just doesn't want to ?
[22:55] <shauno> hm, that works here
[22:55] <diddledan> but loads when I go there directly
[22:56] <shauno> ooh, you know what it is?
[22:56] <daftykins> clean browser session?
[22:56] <shauno> bedtime.  have fun with that :p
[22:56] <daftykins> er i mean clean profile
[22:56] <daftykins> shauno: nn sir :>
[23:05] <popey> lulz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyShy_ey7Ds
[23:05] <popey> Ubuntu MATE on PowerMac G5
[23:06] <daftykins> heh the 21:9 LCDs
[23:07] <popey> yeah
[23:07] <diddledan> what's the mention of apple firmware and lack of apple firmware all about?
[23:08] <daftykins> mmm don't quite get that
[23:08] <diddledan> me either
[23:09] <daftykins> nor do i get messing with old PPC kit :D
[23:12] <popey> nah, i dunno
[23:12] <daftykins> might continue my win98 craptop finding mission this week :)
[23:12] <diddledan> re: the java thread on full disclosure I mentioned - they're now onto talking about the ask toolbar being included gratis. someone pointed to a screenshot of the windows version http://i.imgur.com/82Tp2pp.png?1 which I'm curious as to the white bits being weirdly shaped and all over the shop
[23:12] <daftykins> an ebay seller kindly has offered to take time to test serial + floppy on one i enquired about
[23:13] <daftykins> diddledan: windows themeing, mmm
[23:13] <daftykins> see it mess up a lot these days in 7 and 8
[23:13] <diddledan> that looks like it's vista?
[23:13] <daftykins> although i wouldn't expect it to be that bad... but also i don't quite fancy running the installer to find out :D
[23:14] <daftykins> same close control as 7, tough call
[23:14] <diddledan> I can't actually remember 7
[23:16] <daftykins> same as that :D
[23:17] <diddledan> cuteness alert: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/574309839679131648/photo/1
[23:17] <popey> awwwwwww
[23:18] <daftykins> i can't click such links anymore, Mischief says she's all the cuteness i need
[23:18] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvepdm6sggtv2m2/IMG_20141129_020918.jpg?dl=0
[23:18] <daftykins> ;)
[23:19] <diddledan> awwww
[23:19] <diddledan> she wubs you
[23:19] <daftykins> ooh the win10 VM wants to update its' store
[23:19] <popey> daftykins: ever done an oem install of ubuntu?
[23:19] <zmoylan-pi> merely the moggy equivalent of a mother wiping her childs face in front of their friends to embarrass them :-)
[23:20] <daftykins> OEM you say? nope don't think so, not even sure what's involved?
[23:20] <popey> k
[23:20] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, not only does the mother wipe her child's face, but she uses her spit to do so
[23:20] <popey> its for oems (funnily) which lets you install, customize it then ship it
[23:20] <daftykins> sadly i don't consider myself capable of supporting it well enough to try and put it in for someone
[23:20] <popey> then when customer turns it on, it asks the usual questions - username, keyboard, locale etc
[23:20] <daftykins> *nod*
[23:20] <zmoylan-pi> that goes without saying diddledan, dial the embarrassment to 11
[23:21] <diddledan> is that 1 louder?
[23:21] <zmoylan-pi> 1 ickier
[23:21] <diddledan> aah
[23:26] <daftykins> hrmm wonder what to do with this canon inkjet
[23:26] <daftykins> can't be that great since it was free :D
[23:28] <zmoylan-pi> the ink isn't
[23:29] <daftykins> mmm just looked that up
[23:29] <zmoylan-pi> even the cheap 3rd party cartridges are expensive
[23:29] <daftykins> £17.49 for one cart of each
[23:29] <zmoylan-pi> buy a laser
[23:30] <daftykins> i don't even want a printer at all :) this cheap £208 Lenovo i3 laptop just came with it
[23:30] <zmoylan-pi> it's ballast
[23:30] <zmoylan-pi> a free anchor
[23:30] <daftykins> so now i have to buy a boat? d'aww
[23:31] <zmoylan-pi> use the styrofoam packaging to make a raft
[23:32] <daftykins> hmmm
[23:44] <daftykins> my my, SSD + double RAM to 8GB still comes to under £299
[23:49] <zmoylan-pi> new shiny hardware soon probably so shift the old 'junk'
[23:50] <daftykins> hmmm?
[23:50] <daftykins> skylake isn't for the second half of the year (intel's next greatest)
[23:50] <zmoylan-pi> usually someything new and shiny in the spring
[23:51] <daftykins> broadwell desktop might show up at some point
[23:51]  * penguin42 wishes for more faster cores


[00:39] <MDC2> how about this? http://www.mejlamej.nu/spinner-startup.png
[11:55]  * MacSlow -> lunch
[16:03] <mccann> hey djsiegel1
[16:03] <djsiegel1> hey mccann, I am a bit busy right now, can I ping you back later?
[16:03] <mccann> sure just curious how your wallpaper contest thing is coming?
[16:03] <mccann> anytime is fine
[18:43] <mrooney> djsiegel2: hey, looks like bug 307621 is being fixed upstream, so that could be assigned to a papercut milestone!
[18:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 307621 in hundredpapercuts "Pressing enter key in print to file "Name" box does not print" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/307621
[18:43] <djsiegel2> mrooney: haha, great
[18:44] <mrooney> how is that stuff going overall?
[18:45] <djsiegel2> mrooney: it's ok
[18:45] <djsiegel2> mrooney: would like it if more people were driving it
[18:45] <djsiegel2> you want to help out/
[18:46] <djsiegel2> ?
[18:48] <mac_v> mrooney: i think there already is a papercut > Bug #164298
[18:48] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 164298 in ubuntu "Print to file should say "Export to PDF" instead of "Print to PDF"" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164298
[18:48] <djsiegel2> mac_v that one is different
[18:48] <mac_v> oh... ok
[18:48] <djsiegel2> mrooney: can you help forward rounds 5 and 6 upstream?
[18:49] <djsiegel2> if you find paper cuts not linked to upstreams, will you please link? would help me out a lot
[18:49] <mrooney> I can give it a shot!
[18:49] <djsiegel2> awesome, thank you so much
[18:49] <mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #394184 has been fixed upstream and also in karmic now
[18:49] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 394184 in hundredpapercuts "Simplify the file roller post-extraction dialogue window" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394184
[18:49] <djsiegel2> I am blogging about rounds 5 and 6 today
[18:50] <maco> djsiegel2: what determines whether a papercut gets on the list on your blog posts?
[18:50] <maco> djsiegel2: i assumed fix date, but it seems not
[18:50] <djsiegel2> maco: no, I just split the 100 into 10 milestones of 10
[18:50] <djsiegel2> weekly milestones
[18:50] <djsiegel2> and I just blog about ten at a time
[18:50] <mrooney> well bug 19586 is fixed, shall I mark the paper cuts task as released?
[18:50] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 19586 in hundredpapercuts "When nautilus cannot unmount a media, it must tell why." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19586
[18:50] <djsiegel2> mrooney: sure
[18:51] <mac_v> mrooney: i think djsiegel2  likes them marked as "Fix Commited"
[18:51] <djsiegel2> maco: I have been blogging after the milestones, but I really should before -- the blog posts get a lot of eyeballs on the bug reports, and serve as a good final push to get things fixed
[18:51] <djsiegel2> mac_v mrooney I was told Fix Released is fine
[18:52] <mac_v> ;p unstable fella djsiegel2
[18:52] <maco> djsiegel2: ah. so if a papercut isnt milestoned, it doesnt get blogged, right?
[18:52] <djsiegel2> maco right
[18:52] <djsiegel2> I have blogged about some paper cuts that have been un-milestoned after being invalidated
[18:52] <djsiegel2> like the nautilus toolbar changes
[18:52] <mrooney> the problem with committed is that no one remembers to change them all when the devel version is released
[18:52] <djsiegel2> maco: if a paper cut is not milestoned, it's not 1 of the 100 we are focusing on for karmic
[18:53] <maco> djsiegel2: i see. kubuntu has a goal of 10 papercuts, but AFAIK none of them are milestoned
[18:53] <ScottK> maco: Unfortunately 100papercuts is apparently Gnome/Canonical only so no one else can add the milestone.
[18:53] <djsiegel2> not true
[18:53] <mac_v> ah... i was wondering when ScottK would pop-in about kde ;p
[18:53] <djsiegel2> I just haven;t had a chance to talk to seele recently
[18:54] <djsiegel2> but we have a weird setup where the canonical design team owns the project
[18:54] <djsiegel2> which we want to change so it's community run
[18:54] <ScottK> djsiegel2: My impression from talking to her (and it may be wrong) was that non-Canonical people wouldn't be added.
[18:54] <mac_v> ScottK: actually even kde is part of papercuts
[18:54] <djsiegel2> this is just the beta release of the project
[18:54] <djsiegel2> ScottK: well, now you are talking to the guy running the project
[18:54] <ScottK> djsiegel2: I understand that.
[18:54] <djsiegel2> :)
[18:54]  * ScottK had it on his TODO to discuss it.
[18:54] <djsiegel2> It's a goal for us to get a papercutters team going
[18:55] <djsiegel2> with people like mac_v and mrooney and others on it
[18:55] <djsiegel2> so the paper cuts project can be a proper project
[18:57] <mrooney> if I could mark paper cuts as Triaged I could help more :)
[18:58] <ScottK> Well starting a team in Launchpad takes about a minute.
[18:58] <beuno> djsiegel2, I think if we assign a team as a bug supervisor
[18:58] <beuno> they can set bugs to triaged
[18:58] <beuno> they don;t need to own the project
[18:58] <beuno> so it should be pretty easy to start a papercutters team that can mark 'em as triaged
[18:59] <mrooney> yes indeed
[19:00] <beuno> djsiegel2, say the word and I'll make it happen
[19:00] <djsiegel2> beuno: what does it entail?
[19:00] <djsiegel2> can they do more than set bugs to triaged?
[19:01] <djsiegel2> that doesn't seem useful enough
[19:01] <beuno> djsiegel2, right, that role is just around the bugs
[19:01] <beuno> what else is there?
[19:01] <beuno> probably target bugs to milestones as well, but I think anyone can do that now?
[19:02] <ScottK> No, actually people can't.  That's why some of the Kubuntu bugs didn't get milestoned.
[19:02] <beuno> ok, then that's the second problem we solve
[19:06] <djsiegel2> beuno: ok, great, do it please
[19:06]  * beuno does it
[19:06] <ScottK> djsiegel2: It was my impression that when 100papercuts got started it was limited to Ubuntu the release (i.e. Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Server) and that if other Ubuntu flavors, such as Kubuntu, wanted to participate they would have to do so with their own resources.
[19:07] <ScottK> I'd be glad to find out that's not correct.
[19:07] <djsiegel2> ScottK: so, the only non-community "resources" atm are attention from canonical-ux and my pushing on bugs
[19:07] <djsiegel2> the former has been extremely minimal
[19:07] <djsiegel2> basically nothing
[19:08] <beuno> djsiegel2, papercuts-taskforce?
[19:08] <djsiegel2> and the latter is just me, and I can push on 10 GNOME and 1 KDE paper cut per week (I am barely keeping up)
[19:08] <beuno> does that sound right?
[19:08] <djsiegel2> beuno: papercutters ?
[19:08] <ScottK> OK, well my impression was that Canonical UX limited itself to Gnome.
[19:08] <beuno> djsiegel2, I thought so, but it implies we create the papercuts, no?
[19:08] <ScottK> ... for papercuts.
[19:08] <djsiegel2> ScottK: yes, the lions share of our design attention goes to GNOME as far as 100pc is concern
[19:09] <djsiegel2> but what is 90% of 2 hours of work?
[19:09] <djsiegel2> ScottK: how would you restructure our time so that you would "be glad"?
[19:09] <djsiegel2> beuno: no, I think it's cool
[19:10] <djsiegel2> papercuts-taskforce sounds fine too
[19:10] <beuno> djsiegel2, roger
[19:10] <djsiegel2> your call
[19:11] <ScottK> djsiegel2: I think that as long as you define your communications in terms of the entire Ubuntu project then it'll be fine.  It's a bit confusing to overload the term Ubuntu to mean both the entire project and one specific flavor that the project releases.
[19:11] <ScottK> So it's quite possible you meant Ubuntu the project the whole time, but I just didn't read it that way.
[19:11] <djsiegel2> I am looking for specific feedback on how I am running 100ppc
[19:11] <djsiegel2> I don't really understand the finer point about calling "Ubuntu+GNOME" Ubuntu?
[19:12] <djsiegel2> mrooney mac_v please join http://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
[19:12] <ScottK> When you say 100ppc is working on Ubuntu do you mean all of the Ubuntu project or just ubuntu-desktop?
[19:12] <djsiegel2> I mean ubuntu-desktop
[19:13] <djsiegel2> I wouldn't say we work "on" Ubuntu the project
[19:13] <djsiegel2> we are fixing code
[19:13] <ScottK> On may not be the best word there.
[19:13] <djsiegel2> it's 90% ubuntu-desktop, 10% kubuntu-desktop
[19:13] <djsiegel2> if you'd rather I use package names than "Ubuntu" and "Kubuntu"
[19:14] <djsiegel2> I had a discussion with seele and the desktop team at the very start
[19:14] <ScottK> The confusing bit is that both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop are part of Ubuntu.
[19:14] <djsiegel2> that is the balance we agreed upon for this first cycle
[19:14] <ScottK> OK.
[19:14] <djsiegel2> ScottK: well, that's not in my power
[19:14] <ScottK> Certainly.
[19:14] <beuno> djsiegel2, done
[19:14] <djsiegel2> beuno: awesome
[19:14] <beuno> https://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
[19:15] <djsiegel2> beuno: who moderates?
[19:15] <beuno> add anyone you like, or applicants will notify us
[19:15] <beuno> djsiegel2, canonical-ux
[19:15] <beuno> owns the team
[19:15] <djsiegel2> can you please accept seele, mac_v, mrooney as soon as they apply?
[19:15] <djsiegel2> I will tell seele she can triage the paperkuts
[19:16] <beuno> sure
[19:16] <mac_v> djsiegel2: sure...
[19:16] <beuno> I've added mac_v already
[19:16] <djsiegel2> :)
[19:16] <beuno> mac_v, can you verify that you can mark bugs as triaged?
[19:16] <ScottK> djsiegel2: Making it so that someone who is paying attention to Kubuntu can triage and milestone papercuts is a good step forward.
[19:16] <djsiegel2> ScottK: I am only doing it because I am so swamped with work and I want seele to do it! :)
[19:17] <mac_v> beuno: yup... works
[19:17] <mac_v> :)
[19:17] <beuno> awesome
[19:20] <djsiegel2> mrooney: I can't confirm a fix for enter-to-print-to-file in Karmic
[19:21] <djsiegel2> is it not synced yet?
[19:27] <djsiegel2> mrooney: can you please upstream this one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/344228
[19:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 344228 in hundredpapercuts "Deleting an image that's used as a desktop wallpaper removed it as a wallpaper without notice" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[19:43] <mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #388949 , round 1 bug ,  seems to have stalled, upstream wants discussion to be done on the mailing list?
[19:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
[19:58] <mac_v> beuno: certain bugs invalid papercuts are producing a lot of spam , since they are active in their respective projects , shall i switch the papercut to the NULL project?
[20:00] <beuno> mac_v, yes, that's a good idea
[20:00] <mac_v> \o/
[20:02] <ScottK> mac_v: How will people know they've already been evaluated as a papercut then?
[20:03] <maco> leave a comment saying "not a papercut"?
[20:03] <maco> or just give yourself an email filter that filters out all mails that say "you are receiving because you are subscribed the OneHundredPapercuts project" and also have "OneHundredPapercuts: status => invalid"
[20:03] <maco> (or whatever the proper syntax is)
[20:06] <ScottK> Status is only in the mail if it changes.
[20:07] <maco> oh
[20:19] <mac_v> ScottK: the papercut has been invalid and explained why it is not a papercut... but even after a month the mail arrives ,
[20:20] <ScottK> mac_v: I understand the problem.  There's an outstanding LP request for a feature to be able to unsubscribe from bugs one is implicitly subscribed to.  This is, IMO, the proper solution to the problem.
[20:20] <mac_v> surely +1 for that
[20:21] <mac_v> maco:  i have filters set for each status , but some user ask for explanations for invalid papercuts , hence i need to reply , if all get clumped then the users wont be fully satisfied
[20:22] <maco> gotcha
[22:00] <mrooney> djsiegel2: I like the "These paper cuts are behind schedule and could use your attention..." section
[22:00] <djsiegel2> mrooney: thanks
[22:00] <djsiegel2> I was surprised it was only 2
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel2 - i just closed the gnome-applets task on bug 387874 - this applet has been removed in karmic now
[22:04] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 387874 in hundredpapercuts "Downscrolling should decrease, not increase volume" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387874
[22:04] <djsiegel2> chrisccoulson: ok, great
[22:04] <djsiegel2> thank you
[22:05] <mac_v> djsiegel2: : but the notification applet? how does it behave? [i'v removed it from my setup so cant check]
[22:06] <djsiegel2> mac_v: hmm?
[22:06] <mac_v> djsiegel2: the volume notification applet
[22:06] <mac_v> does it scroll?
[22:07] <chrisccoulson> mac_v - the volume control applet? yes, it scrolls (and in the correct directions)
[22:07] <mac_v> djsiegel2: so thats fixed then?
[22:07] <djsiegel2> mac_v: right, there's no longer a goofy scrolling-down-turns-volume-up bug
[22:07] <mac_v> djsiegel2: Bug #388949 , round 1 bug ,  seems to have stalled, upstream wants discussion to be done on the mailing list?
[22:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
[22:08] <mac_v> the patch is done but waiting
[22:08] <djsiegel2> mac_v: then we will just carry a patch, that's so small
[22:08] <djsiegel2> mac_v, will you talk to seb128 about the patch?
[22:08] <mac_v> ok
[22:08] <djsiegel2> thank you
[22:08] <djsiegel2> "Arrange by Name" < "Rearrange by Name" >
[22:08] <djsiegel2> ?
[22:09] <djsiegel2> I heard a good argument for using "Rearrange" instead of "Arrange"
[22:09] <djsiegel2> I think "Arrange" is a lot better than "Clean up..." though
[22:10] <mac_v> djsiegel2: "Arrange" is better, i *hate* words with a re suffix!
[22:12] <mac_v> djsiegel2: can you join #ubuntu-desktop? seb is available and wants some clarification
[22:14] <mac_v> djsiegel2:  <seb128> mac_v, I'm not really in favor of that, that would break all translations[02:41] <seb128> mac_v, especially that djsiegel comment upstream suggest it's not so clear <mac_v> seb128: so , its a wishlist until upstream decides?[02:42] <seb128> I would prefer having somebody to engage this discussion as requested upstream before we change
[22:14] <mac_v>  <seb128> that would avoid breaking all translations and having to explain to upstream later why we didnt do what they asked for and changed in ubuntu only
[22:17] <djsiegel2> mac_v yeah 1 sec
[22:21] <mac_v> djsiegel2: also have a look at this one > Bugs #400047 , i'v attached the screenshot , if the description is clear to you then invalidate it , IMO it could be refined a bit
[22:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in ubiquity "[Ubiquity]Partitioner can be more properly worded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400047
[22:21] <mrooney> djsiegel2: should bug 363532 be a dupe of bug 290204 and have the milestone updated?
[22:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 363532 in ubuntu "Several system beeps on shutdown" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363532
[22:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 290204 in hundredpapercuts "Annoying beep on shutdown using "System -> Shut down..."" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290204
[22:22] <mrooney> ie have 290204 be milestone 5 and marked fix released
[22:22] <djsiegel2> mrooney: yeah, I was unsure about that
[22:23] <djsiegel2> mrooney: yes, those are dupes
[22:23] <djsiegel2> can you consolidate and schedule them in r5, and find a new papercut for r7?
[22:23] <mrooney> I can try!
[22:23] <mrooney> can I change milestones in it? let's see
[22:23] <djsiegel2> I am sure you will succeed!
[22:23] <djsiegel2> mrooney: you should be able to now
[22:24] <mrooney> I can not, alas
[22:24] <mac_v> mrooney: please join http://edge.launchpad.net/~papercutters
[22:26] <mrooney> excellent thanks, awaiting approvla
[22:27] <beuno> mrooney, approved
[22:32] <mac_v> beuno: djsiegel2 Bug #400047 ? if the description is clear to you guys , then invalidate it , IMO it could be refined a bit
[22:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 400047 in ubiquity "[Ubiquity]Partitioner can be more properly worded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400047
[22:34] <djsiegel2> mac_v, I definitely think we could imporve "Install them side by side"
[22:34] <mac_v> so can we assign it to r7?
[22:36] <djsiegel2> mac_v: let mpt make the call please
[22:36] <djsiegel2> I will add a suggestion
[22:36] <mrooney> beuno: thanks!
[22:36] <mac_v> sure... ok
[23:17] <lamalex> djsiegel2: the fusa mockups look good
[23:17] <djsiegel2> lamalex: thanks
[23:24] <mrooney> djsiegel2: do you mind if I clean up some of the status and mark the fix committed as fix released when the bug is actually fixed in karmic?
[23:25] <djsiegel2> yeah, that would be really awesome
[23:25] <djsiegel2> give this guy some props: http://www.maxxer.it/f-blog/2009/08/f-spot-0-6-0-is-out/
[23:26] <mac_v> mrooney: i think i just did most of the changes :) did i miss any?
[23:26] <mac_v> those*
[23:26] <djsiegel2> setting them to "in progress" would also be good, if they are actively being worked on
[23:29] <mrooney> hm now that bug 291259 is fixed, do we want to re-validate the papercut task and assign it somewhere?
[23:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 291259 in gvfs "smb url don't work in the run application dialog or as bookmark" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291259
[23:30] <mrooney> mac_v: bug 390362 is still Fix Committed, that is the one I was looking at
[23:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 390362 in hundredpapercuts "Entering WEP/WPA key/passphrase requires tabbing/clicking" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/390362
[23:30] <mac_v> mrooney: oh yeah.. i could test if it was fixed :)
[23:30] <mac_v> not*
[23:31] <mac_v> mrooney: for the smb bug , i think we can leave it as is...
[23:32] <mac_v> mrooney: when i last asked djsiegel2 about confirming an invalid bug back as fixed... he didnt want it
[23:33] <djsiegel2> usually invalid means "not a paper cut," so it's not right to reverse a decision on that point simply because it's fixed
[23:33] <djsiegel2> bool isPapercut (Bug x) != isFixed (x) || other paper cut criteria
[23:36] <mrooney> djsiegel2: well if the invalidation criteria was, this isn't small enough to be considered a fix, and it ends being small enough after all, I don't see why not
[23:37] <mrooney> I'm not saying that was necessarily the case with that bug, but that for those cases it seems logical to re-target them
[23:40] <mac_v> mrooney: hehe...similar instance... i had validated the bug , djsiegel2 later invalidated saying it was not trivial, but was eventually trivially fixed ;p
[23:44] <djsiegel2> mac_v mrooney lamalex: click-to-rename closing comment https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/48671/comments/85
[23:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 48671 in nautilus "Cannot rename by clicking on a file" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[23:44] <djsiegel2> mrooney: we need another papercut on round 6, hopefully one with some good progress already
[23:45] <MDC2> djsiegel2, I think the one that won't let you move windows in the pager is quite important
[23:45] <MDC2> djsiegel2, and is has an upstream patch as well
[23:45] <djsiegel2> MDC2: sounds pretty complex to enable that
[23:45] <MDC2> nope, patch is there (i wrote it :-))
[23:45] <djsiegel2> djsiegel2: and I have to say, enabling that could make the switcher less usable as a whole
[23:46] <djsiegel2> it promotes a really poorly designed way to move windows around
[23:46] <mac_v> MDC2: bug#
[23:46] <djsiegel2> clicking on 5px rectangles
[23:46] <MDC2> djsiegel2, it does "Click to start moving .." when hovering..
[23:46] <MDC2> mac_v, 2 sec..
[23:46] <MDC2> mac_v, upstream bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505367
[23:46] <ubot4> Gnome bug 505367 in general "Compiz - Can't drag a windows to another workspace" [Normal,New]
[23:47] <MDC2> djsiegel2, both me and my girlfriend use it a lot..
[23:47] <mac_v> MDC2: i dont think it was reported in papercuts
[23:48] <djsiegel2> MDC2: I don't understand
[23:48] <MDC2> even it you don't use it, it seems strange to not be able to move them..
[23:48] <djsiegel2> you click a rectangle in the switcher and drag it to another workspace in the applet?
[23:48] <MDC2> yep
[23:48] <MDC2> as the tooltip says
[23:48] <mac_v> MDC2: if you want to push it  , amaranth is the best person
[23:49] <MDC2> mac_v, who's amaranth? libwnck developer?
[23:50] <mac_v> MDC2: https://launchpad.net/~amaranth , he mostly deals with the compiz stuff
[23:51] <MDC2> the problem is not in compiz land, its libwnck that has poor support for viewport. I've been asking vuntz on how he want it implemented (so i can fix it) - but no response so far..
[23:51] <mac_v> djsiegel2: the function does not work when compiz is enabled.
[23:52] <MDC2> guess his busy with other gnome stuff...
[23:52] <mac_v> MDC2: ah... libwnck is vuntz
[23:52] <MDC2> yep
[23:52] <MDC2> s/his/he's/
[23:53] <MDC2> I've got a bunch of patches waiting for review in libwnck *hint*
[23:54] <mac_v> MDC2: i think vuntz works on UTC time , you can catch him in #ubuntu-desktop
[23:55] <MDC2> mac_v, i'll try (I also mailed him about it and he should have seen my patches so hopefully he will take a look at them when he has more time, don't wanna bother him if he hasn't got time)
[23:56] <MDC2> isn't there any other libwnck developer that got time for reviewing patches and slapping me on the fingers when i screw up?


 So I am just trying to be a small reminder of what they are actually celebrating
[14:57] <gremble> :P
[14:59] <Kilos> lol
[15:38] <theblazehen> hi Kilos
[17:56] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:57] <Kilos> Maaz hmm...
[17:57] <Maaz> hmm... is often used to try make others believe one is actually thinking
[18:42] <superfly> Hi
[18:42] <superfly> grenobyl: feeling dangerous?
[18:43] <grenobyl> Like I'm about to meltdown can cause my surrounding area to be uninhabitable for the next 10 000 years. How about you?
[18:44] <grenobyl> Have you heard of the idea of removing ORM's and instead making objects that can handle their own SQL?
[18:45] <grenobyl> http://www.yegor256.com/2014/12/01/orm-offensive-anti-pattern.html
[18:45] <grenobyl> https://blog.codinghorror.com/object-relational-mapping-is-the-vietnam-of-computer-science/
[18:46] <Kilos> hi superfly
[18:47] <superfly> grenobyl: that's because most ORMs are doing it wrong.
[18:47] <superfly> Kilos: hi
[18:53] <superfly> grenobyl_: you'll notice how they don't actually talk about Python's ORMs much
[18:53] <superfly> specifically SQLAlchemy
[18:54] <superfly> And they use Java (ugh)
[18:55] <grenobyl_> Yes I noticed the java. So SQLalchemy does not do this?
[18:55] <grenobyl_> It is funny, because I have a friend that likes Java and he makes fun of my preference for lisp, deriding it for it's parentheses even though java looks worse and has just as many parentheses :P
[18:56] <superfly> Well, zzzeek wrote SQLAlchemy to be different to the rest. He wrote it as a way to show people that ORMs can be decent
[18:57] <grenobyl_> My (albeit limited) experience with sqlalchemy has been similar. So I wondered whether it wouldn't be worth it to try play around without it.
[19:04] <superfly> http://simplicity.laserfiche.com/the-sad-story-of-mr-null-and-little-bobby-tables/
[19:04] <superfly> grenobyl_: ^^ related
[19:05] <grenobyl_> superfly: Yes, I know that. Stories like that are what prevented me from jumping over to programming as a career :P
[19:06] <superfly> Hrm, I need to get some rest. My migraine is threatening me
[19:06] <grenobyl_> Our local pharmacy has something called "migraine bomb" that helps a lot
[19:06] <grenobyl_> Maybe your pharmacist can mix something similar?
[19:07] <superfly> I've taken a myprodol, that plus some sleep should fix it.
[19:07] <superfly> Later
[19:07] <grenobyl_> Cheers
[19:27] <Kilos-> night all. sleep tight