[04:55] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALff0ca2458fa9: Remove uneeded whitespace] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALff0ca2458fa9
[05:01] <guiverc> 20.04 qa-install; i mis-read testing checklist & had half of disk used by prior (custom) install; used 'install alongside' and expected it to use remaining space.. instead of shrank the partition by half & both old & new use half of hdd... is this an issue?  (worth of bug report?)  no errors & small text does say "alongside .. shrink a partition to make room" where I expected it 'skip' shrink free space... technically not a bug
[05:01] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL16976f9c73ed: Add and outputs] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL16976f9c73ed
 @guiverc [<guiverc> 20.04 qa-install; i mis-read testing checklist & had half of disk used …], Yeah I'd also expect it to use the free space if it can. Instead of shrinking the earlier one.
[12:04] <guiverc> I closed/ignored it.  The text did say 'shrink partition to make room', if it did what I expected (used free space) a bug could be raised to say it didn't "shrink & use that space.."   Why I always instal with something-else/manual... possibly   Thanks @The_LoudSpeaker
 Me too. I also prefer the something else option.
 its time? @wxl @tsimonq2 @kc2bez @RikMills @HMollerCl ?
 oh one hour yet. ain't it?
[13:09] <kc2bez> I think so
[13:09] <kc2bez> unless I calculated incorrectly
[13:10] <kc2bez> but yeah that's what I came up with on the calendar
 I really don't understand Daylight savings time
[13:19] <kc2bez> It is a horrible creation.
[13:19] <kc2bez> No time is actually saved.
[13:20] <kc2bez> No more daylight is created.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [its time? @wxl @tsimonq2 @kc2bez @RikMills @HMollerCl ?], for what?
 Re: merges.
 We fixed a time to together deal with them.
 urgh
 - don't always assume MoM does the best thing. It is a tool to help, that is all.
 - don't always assume MoM does the best thing. It is a tool to help, that is all. … - merge changelogs should always list the kept delta to the debian revision you are merging from. I cannot, stress this enough, as it is the only way sometime in a few weeks/months/years will know what/why you kept a difference over debian.
 - unless there is a good reason not keep a delta, it should be dropped
[13:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCALAPACKAGINGd732ec0dafc3: Bump version for new upstream release.] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCALAPACKAGINGd732ec0dafc3
[13:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCALAPACKAGINGade23b607573: Upload to focal.] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCALAPACKAGINGade23b607573
[13:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T150: Erase Disk fails with existing partition scheme] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T150#3222
 knock knock
[14:03] <kc2bez> O/
 o/
[14:06]  * kc2bez needs more coffee
 I'm here too
[14:11] <wxl> here
[14:11] <wxl> kettle's almost ready
 @lubuntu_bot [*kc2bez: needs more coffee*], me tooo.
[14:13]  * kc2bez feels bad for wxl, it is super early on a Saturday for him.
 @kc2bez I made changes according to your suggestions to D83, running debuild now. will update it in a bit
 @lubuntu_bot [*kc2bez: feels bad for wxl, it is super early on a Saturday for him.*], what time is it wcl?
 *wxl
[14:15] <kc2bez> 6:15 AM
[14:16] <kc2bez> Alrighty, we just need @tsimonq2 now
 I am free after a few hours also. if  wxl wants to wait sometime.
[14:16] <kc2bez> Oh sorry ABI BREAK !!!
[14:16] <kc2bez> XD
 I think @tsimonq2 isn't up yet. for him also 8am na?
 XD
[14:17] <kc2bez> He suggested the time. XD
 wake up @tsimonq2 !
[14:20] <wxl> ok guayusa is brewing. soon i'll be among the living
[14:21] <kc2bez> My next cup will be tea, I drink coffee for effect.
[14:24] <wxl> guayusa/mate (i've been blending the two but ran out of the latter) are both stronger than tea but not necessarily stronger than coffee
[14:24] <wxl> i should see if i can't get some guarana and try that out as it's supposed to be stronger than coffee
[14:25] <wxl> but i can't do coffee; it makes me crash bad
[14:26] <kc2bez> I usually stick to one cup; no additives (i.e. sugar, creamer).
[14:27] <wxl> well that's the other thing.. one cup is no fun. i like to drink throughout the day
[14:27] <wxl> also coffee kind of has an overwhelming taste
 guayusa? never heard of it. In brazil there is a Guarana drink that competes with coke
[14:28] <wxl> guayusa is actually a member of the holly family which is interesting
[14:28] <kc2bez> That is why I switch after the first cup, it kills my stomach and is indeed overpowering.
[14:28] <wxl> it's native to the amazon in ecuador, peru, and columbia
 you might want to take a look at https://phab.lubuntu.me/D83 now. @kc2bez
[14:28] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Needs Review] Merge from debian unstable.: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D83
[14:28] <wxl> it's also found in bolivia
[14:29] <wxl> guarana is common in energy drinks
[14:31] <kc2bez> lgtm @The_Loudspeaker hopefully @tsimonq2 ABI BREAK stops by to look at it too.
 should we start?
 One sec. Let me finish my laddo first.
 XD
 I haven't have much time this days.
 @HMollerCl [I haven't have much time this days.], +1
[14:33] <wxl> there's another caffeine containing holly that has been used historically for drinking and supposedly has up to 6x the amount of caffeine of coffee
[14:33] <wxl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_drink
[14:33] <wxl> i
[14:33] <wxl> 'm getting ready to call him
[14:33] <kc2bez> okie dokie
 Talking of food and drinks, anyone here has heard of laddos?
[14:34] <wxl> no
[14:35] <wxl> no luck
[14:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> you would really like them. have any indian friend nearby? we always have laddoos in the huse.
[14:35] <wxl> he must have his phone off
[14:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> lite. We should continue then?
[14:36] <wxl> i guess so
[14:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> to start with, have a look at D83
[14:37] <The_LoudSpeaker> if that's good then I will try to deal future merges the same way.
[14:37] <wxl> so first off i'll say i have to agree with @RikMills
[14:38] <wxl> when i've dealt with MoM before, i've ended up struggling. i kind of resolved to just do everything manually. at the very least you know what's going on without question
[14:39] <The_LoudSpeaker> you mean using the .patch files from merge-tool?
[14:40] <wxl> i mean just ignoring all that and just generating the diffs and dealing with it
[14:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> I did generate diffs and tried to apply but previous ubuntu side tweaks like those one line tweaks in control file are very confusing.
[14:40] <wxl> so your change log actually adds rather than subtracts history. that's always a good thing X'D
[14:41] <wxl> what do you mean by that?
[14:41] <wxl> white space at the end of a file?
[14:42] <The_LoudSpeaker> no.
 Nice, I slept through the alarm I set
 Hello
[14:42] <The_LoudSpeaker> see the control file at https://phab.lubuntu.me/D83
[14:42] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Accepted] Merge from debian unstable.: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D83
[14:42] <wxl> hey there
[14:42] <The_LoudSpeaker> hii @tsimonq2!
[14:42] <The_LoudSpeaker> good moning
[14:42] <The_LoudSpeaker> *morning
[14:42] <wxl> i tried to signal call you but that didn't get anywhere apparently
 I didn't bother answering you there
 :)
[14:43] <The_LoudSpeaker> hahaha
[14:43] <wxl> harumph
 Anyway
[14:45] <wxl> ok D83 @tsimonq2
[14:45] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://phab.lubuntu.me/D83
[14:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Accepted] Merge from debian unstable.: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D83
 *cracks knuckles*
[14:46] <The_LoudSpeaker> look at the edit history. i don't understand why all the merges have those control file-single-line changes to build recommends.
[14:47] <wxl> i'm digging into that
[14:47] <wxl> my guess: debian fiddling with things unnecessarily
[14:47] <The_LoudSpeaker> and even if they are, I don't get why merge-tool didn't use the multi-line changes that came from new debian release?
[14:48] <The_LoudSpeaker> for ref: https://phab.lubuntu.me/P72
[14:48] <kc2bez> The merge tool didn't try to merge d/control that is what the report indicated
[14:49] <kc2bez> It was telling you that there were things you needed to manually merge
[14:50] <The_LoudSpeaker> no it did. there were diff3 errors at some places. it left those and merged other sections of control file.
[14:50] <wxl> where's that report at? we should link such things in merge differentials in the future just for help
[14:50] <The_LoudSpeaker> see the control file obtained directly from erge-tool
[14:51] <kc2bez> wxl: https://merges.ubuntu.com/l/lxqt-sudo/REPORT
[14:51] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://merges.ubuntu.com/l/lxqt-sudo/REPORT
[14:51] <wxl> kc2bez is saying the one conflict (i.e. the one area a manual merge was required) was in d/control https://merges.ubuntu.com/l/lxqt-sudo/REPORT
[14:51] <wxl> holy hell gmta
[14:52] <The_LoudSpeaker> yeah there was a manual tweak required in one of the build deps of lxqt-sudo in control file but rest part including those one-liners was done by merge tool
 do you have the diff of the 2 control files?
[14:53] <The_LoudSpeaker> i don't rn but can make one.
 D83 has one, is that the latest?
[14:55] <kc2bez> syntactically one line or multiple it should be the same I guess
[14:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> iT IS.
 I think wrap-and-sort woudl solve some of them
[14:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> @hmollercl the D83 has the patched one. prepared by me
 yep,  but apparently you didn't runw "wrap-and-sort"
 Depends  and Recommends conflicts I think could be solved by wrap-and-sort
[14:58] <The_LoudSpeaker> OH BEHENCHOD! wrap and sort writes them in one line
[14:59] <The_LoudSpeaker> I just ran wrap and sort and it did that
 wrap-and-sort removes uneeded spaces and sort alphabetically
 your Recommends should have now first lxqt-plugin and then lxqt-sudo
[15:00] <The_LoudSpeaker> so @kc2bez the points you mentioned in your comments in D83 about things not same as in debian were actually caused by wrap and sort
[15:00] <The_LoudSpeaker> so debian doesn't use wrap and sort?
[15:00] <kc2bez> hmm I stand corrected there I guess.
[15:01] <The_LoudSpeaker> if @wxl & @tsimonq2 approve, I can go forward with D83
[15:02] <kc2bez> Actually you should revert some of what I told you to do
[15:02] <The_LoudSpeaker> yup! one sec
[15:03] <The_LoudSpeaker> there you go
[15:03] <The_LoudSpeaker> done
[15:04] <wxl> wrap-and-sort is a debian tool; here it is mentioned in the manual https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/ch04.en.html
[15:04] <wxl> i should point out that if you look at the control history in debian, you'll see the formatting was always the way it is in debian.. that was introduced in 0.14.0
[15:04] <wxl> however, we went straight from 0.13.0-0ubuntu2 to 0.14.0-0ubuntu1 as a new upstream release
[15:05] <kc2bez> so calling out in the changelog is the right thing to do (you did that) it highlights why it is different.
[15:05] <The_LoudSpeaker> the diff was between 0.14.1-2ubuntu1 and 0.14.1-2
[15:05] <wxl> luckily that has little effect on us but another example of us getting bit kind of badly by a merge of debian after we pulled in an upstream release before debian is bug 1864170
[15:06] <wxl> so you know what the ideal solution to these kind of problems is? get our butts in debian and pull in all the upstreams there and then merges will just happen
[15:06] <The_LoudSpeaker> hehehe
[15:07] <wxl> i'm actually serious
[15:07] <The_LoudSpeaker> not possible for me
[15:07] <wxl> well, not presently
[15:08] <wxl> wait kc2bez are you suggesting that he revert the changes to match debian?
[15:08] <kc2bez> No
[15:08] <wxl> ok
[15:08] <kc2bez> Raman just fixed it.
[15:08] <The_LoudSpeaker> btw, how do we fix the bug that you justn pointed out @wxl ?
[15:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> *just
[15:09] <wxl> The_LoudSpeaker: Breaks/Replaces
[15:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> the cycle goes on! :)
[15:09] <wxl> it will force apt to trash whatever that is before it processes the package
[15:09] <kc2bez> Someone needs to sync the archive with phab though
[15:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> ow you were talking about the bug and not me. :p
[15:10] <wxl> no i was talking about both!
 I don't get that qtermwidget error
[15:10] <wxl> i'll explain that later as i don't want to totally derail this conversation
 ok, thanks wxl
[15:10] <The_LoudSpeaker> I can sync that @kc2bez. In a few hours. gtg now. Dinner time.
[15:11] <wxl> so here's the thing: unless alf decides to be a good boy and run wrap-and-sort, debian's going to have depends on their own lines
[15:11] <wxl> and if we DO run wrap-and-sort on our merges, then there's always going to be a conflict
 Yeah. That's true.
[15:11] <wxl> we'll just keep hitting our head on this
 btw, what about standards-version ib lxqt-sudo?
[15:11] <wxl> so i would personally suggest going back to the way you had it, where it matched debian
[15:11] <kc2bez> We should carry the change though, it is the proper way
[15:12] <wxl> well
[15:12] <wxl> i guess that's two schools of thought. i don't disagree with you
[15:12] <wxl> what would you do, @tsimonq2 ?
[15:12] <kc2bez> Our control will never match anyway
 @wxl [<wxl> what would you do, @tsimonq2 ?], He'd probably run wrap and sort.
[15:12] <kc2bez> Vcs-Browser: https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/lxqt-sudo/
 @kc2bez [<kc2bez> Our control will never match anyway], Agreed. We have git changes also.
[15:13] <wxl> well fair point because our control might refer to an ubuntu version number and in that case we absolutely don't want to prefer the debian control
[15:13] <wxl> right that too
[15:13] <wxl> ok, it's decided then
[15:14] <kc2bez> We bored Simon, he went back to sleep XD
 shouls we raise standards-version too?
[15:14] <wxl> apparently
[15:14] <tsimonq2> Alright, morning.
[15:14] <wxl> you got your crack? :)
[15:14] <tsimonq2> YES
[15:14]  * tsimonq2 shakes
[15:14] <wxl> alright party time
[15:14] <tsimonq2> Yessir.
[15:14] <tsimonq2> So.
[15:14] <wxl> btw afte rthis is done i have to go do yard work so meh
[15:15] <tsimonq2> I'll look at Raman's merge first.
[15:15] <tsimonq2> Oh, nice. We have too much snow here for that.
 and shouldn't we tell debian packager that they shoudl run wrap-and-sort?
[15:15] <wxl> it should be good to go except for discussion of standards version
[15:15] <kc2bez> Yeah there is no yard here either.
[15:15] <wxl> @HMollerCl have you ever tried to tell agaida ANYTHING? X''''''D
[15:15] <tsimonq2> ^^^^^^^
[15:15] <tsimonq2> I have some of my own verification steps I do for merges.
[15:15] <tsimonq2> Give me a quick second to pull everything up.
[15:16] <wxl> maybe if someone spoke to him in german that might help
 jajja, fair point
[15:16] <wxl> i don't think it would, honestly
[15:16] <tsimonq2> Right after this, I will be doing some Phab upgrades.
[15:16] <wxl> he's stubborn and grumpy and silly
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> I'll look at Raman's merge first.], Also have a look at https://phab.lubuntu.me/P72 i also don't understand how the tool merged the rules file.
[15:17] <wxl> what part about it?
 Party where it left the overrides section from debian.
 *part
[15:18] <kc2bez> This line? https://phab.lubuntu.me/P72$186
[15:18] <wxl> no
[15:19] <wxl> https://phab.lubuntu.me/P72$181
 181
 Yeah
[15:19] <wxl> so which of those changes is yours?
 None.
 All by merge tool
 My changes are in D83.
[15:20] <wxl> so i mean i guess they're both in question then, ultimately
 The paste has changes are those done by merge tool
[15:20] <tsimonq2> I'm not even looking at Phab, by the way.
[15:20] <tsimonq2> $ debdiff lxqt-sudo_0.14.1-2.dsc lxqt-sudo_0.14.1-2ubuntu1.dsc | pastebinit
[15:20] <tsimonq2> dpkg-source: warning: extracting unsigned source package (/tmp/lxqt-sudo_0.14.1-2ubuntu1.dsc)
[15:20] <tsimonq2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kCkZB2XvpN/
[15:20] <tsimonq2> This is a merge, from Debian.
[15:20] <tsimonq2> So, I'm looking to see what we still change as compared to Debian.
[15:21] <wxl> pastebinit -f diff btw
[15:21] <tsimonq2> Yeah yeah.
[15:21] <tsimonq2> :P
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> $ debdiff lxqt-sudo_0.14.1-2.dsc lxqt-sudo_0.14.1-2ubuntu1.dsc | past …], You got this 2ubuntu1.dsc from grab-merge?
 how can I see debian version in sid?
[15:22] <tsimonq2> Nope, that's from the Phab diff.
[15:22] <tsimonq2> pull-debian-source lxqt-sudo
 not havinfg to download :P
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Nope, that's from the Phab diff.], ?
[15:23] <wxl> you just want to know what the version is @HMollerCl?
[15:23] <kc2bez> @HMollerCl use a DDG bang search
 @wxl [<wxl> you just want to know what the version is @HMollerCl?], just want to see debian/rules
[15:23] <wxl> !dpkg binary-package
[15:23] <wxl> bah
 :)
 ok, found https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/lxqt-sudo
[15:24] <kc2bez> (!deb PACKAGENAME)
[15:25] <wxl> yeah if you get to packages.d.s, click on the milestone, then the source package, then the git link on the right
[15:25] <wxl> it's kind of a pita. a direct bang would be nice
[15:25] <kc2bez> true
 so, in https://phab.lubuntu.me/P72 red (or -) is what we don't have, green (or +) is what debian don't have
 @HMollerCl [so, in https://phab.lubuntu.me/P72 red (or -) is what we don't have, green (or + …], Yup!
[15:26] <tsimonq2> Okay, so here's a few things that stand out to me. I'll reference things by line numbers in https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kCkZB2XvpN/ :
[15:26] <wxl> the problem is it would be all but impossible because the way debian has gitlab organized th emaintaining teams are represented so it's not salsa.d.o/lxqt-sudo but /lxqt-team/lxqt-sudo
[15:26] <kc2bez> I compiled a list of recent merges here https://notes.lubuntu.me/J9a4EEfATfuWz7tz7bbYIQ#
[15:26] <kc2bez> It has a link to the debian git too
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Okay, so here's a few things that stand out to me. I'll reference thi …], Goo. I am listening
[15:27] <kc2bez> the table gets formatted a little weird but it is all there.
[15:30] <tsimonq2> Line 5 has urgency=low - for Ubuntu, keep all urgencies to medium. Line 81, the newline should NOT be there; that's a MoM bug, but always go back and remove that line. Line 171, that's also an unnecessary newline. Literally the only thing that should be in the changelog for REMAINING changes should be wrap-and-sort and maintainer changes. There aren't any other remaining Ubuntu-only changes as
[15:30] <tsimonq2> compared to Debian.
[15:30] <tsimonq2> I think you were looking at the Phab diff and got confused. We don't list changes from the last Ubuntu change in merges because we should already have Debian changelog entries which are verbose enough.
[15:31] <wxl> re: urgency, mom did that
[15:31] <tsimonq2> I know.
 Someplaces it has medium also. In other packages.
[15:32] <tsimonq2> The purpose of merges is to incorporate new Debian changes as a *given*, and then re-evaluate the Ubuntu-only changes layered on top. That's why we diff against the Debian version, because we want to know how our package is different compared to Debian's.
 About the newlines, yeah i noticed that. Forgot to fix. Will update D83 in a while.
[15:32] <tsimonq2> I know.
[15:32] <tsimonq2> The Phab diffs are always going to be misleading when it comes to Debian merges because they do not correctly evaluate what should be evaluated in a merge.
[15:33] <wxl> tl;dr we want to merge with debian… unless there's something useful to keep in ubuntu
[15:33] <tsimonq2> Right.
[15:33] <tsimonq2> And if all of the Ubuntu changes are garbage when applied to the new Debian revision, then just sync.
 I was looking at debian one only. Check the paste. P72 it is created by debdiff debian-version.dsc ubuntu-version.dsc
 @tsimonq2 ^
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kCkZB2XvpN/], But don't understand how you got to this and I didn't
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kCkZB2XvpN/
 Also , the upstream/metadata changes are missing in here ^
[15:36] <wxl> he used pull-debian-source
[15:36] <wxl> it provides lxqt-sudo_0.14.1-2.dsc
 How he got the 0.14.1-2ubuntu1.dsc
 ?
[15:37] <tsimonq2> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Rhxm6SCznP/
[15:38] <tsimonq2> I can spot several additional inaccuracies with P72, but that could be an older revision anyway.
[15:38] <wxl> tl;dr he built the source from your patch
 Oh. From D83 only. K.
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> I can spot several additional inaccuracies with P72, but that could b …], Yup! Lite
 What do you think about the rules changes in P72
[15:39] <tsimonq2> Give me a diff compared to Debian and we can talk.
[15:39] <tsimonq2> I think Debian did those changes.
[15:39] <tsimonq2> Unless you just did. :)
[15:39] <wxl> fwiw grab-merge provides the same as pull-debian-source
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Give me a diff compared to Debian and we can talk.], P72 is the diff compared to debian.
 Between debian and the merge created by merge tool
[15:40] <tsimonq2> The merge tool can be incorrect at times.
[15:40] <tsimonq2> I don't trust it for some things.
[15:40] <tsimonq2> It can make incorrect assumptions.
 So go fix it. :p
[15:40] <wxl> i hear an echo here (@RikMills, myself)
[15:40] <tsimonq2> Nice.
[15:40] <tsimonq2> Okay.
[15:40] <tsimonq2> So.
[15:41] <tsimonq2> Push your new changes to D83 and we can talk.
[15:41] <tsimonq2> If, of course, you made changes otherwise.
[15:41] <tsimonq2> If those were changes *Debian* made then I have no freaking clue how you got that.
[15:41] <tsimonq2> Perhaps an older Debian revision.
 You mean the newline fixes and wrap sort?
[15:42] <tsimonq2> No, I mean whatever you have in P72. The new source you have locally.
[15:42] <tsimonq2> From my estimation, you have a new local source that is not reflected in the diff.
[15:42] <tsimonq2> As in, new changes.
[15:42] <tsimonq2> Did you make those rules changes?
[15:42] <tsimonq2> Or did Debian?
[15:42] <wxl> Debian
 No. All up in D83
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Did you make those rules changes?], Debian
[15:43] <tsimonq2> I have absolutely no clue at all how you got P72 then.
[15:43] <kc2bez> You corrected D83 this morning
[15:43] <tsimonq2> No clue.
[15:43] <tsimonq2> Well, hold on.
[15:43] <tsimonq2> D83 also has the changelog entries which reflect *Debian*'s changes, not ours.
[15:43] <tsimonq2> In yours, that is.
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> I have absolutely no clue at all how you got P72 then.], From debdiff 0.14.1-2.dsc 0.14.1-2ubuntu1.dsc …  Not using. Manually modified it and got D83. That I am using.
[15:45] <tsimonq2> Remove the local Ubuntu copy you have, re-clone from Git, re-apply the diff from D83.
[15:45] <tsimonq2> That's what I'd do.
[15:46] <tsimonq2> Especially because MoM's inaccuracies have very obviously manifested themselves in P72.
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Remove the local Ubuntu copy you have, re-clone from Git, re-apply th …], Yup! Have that.
[15:46] <tsimonq2> Okay so, go back to the changes I recommended earlier and update the diff. :)
[15:46] <wxl> debian pulled those rules changes in at 0.14.0-1 https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/lxqt-sudo/commit/2acc7250850b4dd0b53fd32ba7a8970c64070365
[15:47] <tsimonq2> Nice to know but not relevant to the current discussion anymore.
[15:47] <tsimonq2> We can, of course, review Debian's changes.
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Okay so, go back to the changes I recommended earlier and update the …], New lines?
[15:47] <tsimonq2> If we disagreed with that, we can revert their changes.
[15:47] <tsimonq2> That's a separate discussion though.
[15:48] <kc2bez> New line at the end of the changelog
[15:48] <tsimonq2> @The_LoudSpeaker: I'll re-forward the messages to you via Telegram.
[15:48] <kc2bez> For example
[15:48] <tsimonq2> They're in here.
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Line 5 has urgency=low - for Ubuntu, keep all urgencies to medium. Li …], Or just this.
 @tsimonq2 [Or just this.], Yeah okay. Will do.
[15:49] <tsimonq2> Let me know when the diff is updated and I will re-evaluate.
 Having munchurians now. Will get the changes once I reach room.
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> Let me know when the diff is updated and I will re-evaluate.], Sure
[15:49] <wxl> you're eating the people of northern china?
[15:49] <kc2bez> @tsimonq2 what should we do with the merges already committed?
 @kc2bez [<kc2bez> @tsimonq2 what should we do with the merges already committed?], Yeah. First 4 need to be updated. Seriously. Last 4 are good. Exactly like D83
[15:51] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: Are they uploaded or just committed?
[15:51] <kc2bez> both
[15:52] <tsimonq2> Well, do as I just did with this one then. If it's already uploaded, then the changelog is what it is. pull-debian-source <base revision> and (assuming Git reflects what's in the archive and vice versa) pull-lp-source <uploaded revision>, then just debdiff the dsc files.
[15:53] <tsimonq2> Again, what you're really looking at is, what are the changes we have only in Ubuntu?
[15:54] <tsimonq2> 1) Can we upstream them? (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA); 2) Do they need to be updated or adjusted?; 3) Does the changelog accurately describe the *Ubuntu* changes still present in the package?
[15:54] <wxl> to be clear here by base you mean debian-base not upstream-base?
[15:54] <tsimonq2> I'm not sure what you mean.
[15:55] <tsimonq2> Oh.
[15:55] <tsimonq2> Yeah, so...
[15:55] <wxl> in MoM language (which i'm sure raman is thinking) 0.14.0 = base; 0.14.0-1 = debian (which could be considered a base to ubuntu); 0.14.0-1ubuntu1 = ubuntu
[15:56] <tsimonq2> pull-debian-source lxqt-sudo-or-whatever [0.14.0-1] && pull-lp-source lxqt-sudo-or-whatever [0.14.0-1ubuntu1] && debdiff 0.14.0-1.dsc 0.14.0-1ubuntu1.dsc
[15:57] <tsimonq2> (The version numbers are optional, but by default the latest versions are pulled.)
[15:57] <wxl> right. now we'll have less hair pulling
[15:57] <tsimonq2> Did I answer some questions? :)
 I don't have any hair to pull :(
[15:58] <tsimonq2> To be fair to Raman too, it took me longer than I'm willing to admit to grasp the abstract concept of merges. I was also a new packager, so there was existing overhead. :)
 Your process is helpful, we need to get it in the wiki
[16:00] <wxl> yes
[16:00] <tsimonq2> Glad I could help.
[16:00] <wxl> honestly i have to wonder who uses MoM
[16:01] <tsimonq2> I'm going to do Phab upgrades real quick. @kc2bez, do you want a walkthrough of my process?
[16:01] <wxl> for anything other than an alert system to manual merges
[16:01] <tsimonq2> wxl: dholbach but you know where he went. :)
[16:01] <wxl> hehehehe
[16:01] <tsimonq2> Adam doesn't use it, I know that for a fact.
 @tsimonq2 [<tsimonq2> I'm going to do Phab upgrades real quick. @kc2bez, do you want a walk …], yes
 give me a minute though
[16:02] <tsimonq2> Are you at a computer if I just wanted to show you in a tmux session?
[16:02] <tsimonq2> Okay, I can get set up.
 be there momentarily.
[16:03] <tsimonq2> What's the port number again?
[16:03] <wxl> regular
[16:03] <tsimonq2> No it isn't.
[16:03] <tsimonq2> teward changed it and I can't remember what he changed it to.
[16:03] <wxl> oh right the backend is different
[16:03] <wxl> one sec
[16:05] <tsimonq2> Dan, tmux session is on the *host*, not in the container. :)
[16:05] <tsimonq2> Otherwise I'm ready when you are.
 sorry yinz, I need to go......
[16:06] <kc2bez> cheers hans
[16:06] <wxl> heheheh take care @HMollerCl
 Yinz.
 😂😂
[16:06] <wxl> next time you're on hit me up and we can talk about that qtermwidget thing
[16:07] <wxl> unless you want to hear it now (since we're in a lull)
[16:07] <kc2bez> I'm in tsimonq2
[16:07] <tsimonq2> Phab daemons stopped.
 @wxl [<wxl> next time you're on hit me up and we can talk about that qtermwidget thing], Sure!
[16:08] <wxl> ok so pull the bug out
[16:08] <wxl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtermwidget/+bug/1864170
[16:09] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: I'll just tweak the script real quick and then we can get into it.
[16:09] <wxl> specifically my comment here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtermwidget/+bug/1864170/comments/2
[16:09] <tsimonq2> I don't have to do this every time.
[16:09] <kc2bez> I'm following along
[16:09] <wxl> these are the key ones
[16:09] <wxl>  * Version 0.14.0-0ubuntu1 moved translations into a new qtermwidget-l10n package in the qtermwidget source package. (25 Jan 2019)
[16:09] <teward> 10022
[16:09] <wxl>  * Version 0.14.0-1 moved translations into the existing qtermwidget-data binary package (27 Jan 2019)
[16:10] <teward> Tsimonq2
[16:10] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: So, the first thing I always always always do is check the changelog. If there are changes that need manual intervention, we need to be aware.
[16:10] <tsimonq2> teward: teward teward teward teward teward teward teward
[16:10] <wxl> so both of the changes did something with translations, but they did different things
[16:10] <kc2bez> Ok
[16:11]  * tsimonq2 dumps a truck full of cow excrement on teward (if you know, you know)
[16:11] <wxl> and since OUR changes happened first and no other merges happened, when we merged debian and dropped all the ubuntu changes, things got broken
[16:11] <tsimonq2> https://secure.phabricator.com/w/changelog/
[16:11] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: The best way to see which version we're on is to cd into /srv/phabricator/phabricator/ and run git log
[16:11] <wxl> does that make sense @HMollerCl?
[16:11] <tsimonq2> O___________O this was last updated in October.
[16:12] <tsimonq2> Oops.
[16:12] <wxl> it's actually been a long running problem but never manifested itself because we never merged debian
[16:12] <kc2bez> Looks that way
[16:12] <tsimonq2> I'm opening all the changelogs and at the very minimum skimming them.
[16:13] <kc2bez> That's a lot of changelogs :P
[16:13] <wxl> and of course when i mention to agaida that he's got a recommend to a non-existent package he's like "oh well it's no big deal blah blah blah not like stupid ubuntu that's so dumb and blah blah blah"
[16:14] <tsimonq2> I know kc2bez.
[16:14] <tsimonq2> wxl: Which non-existent package?
[16:14] <wxl> tsimonq2: qtermwidget-l10n
[16:15] <tsimonq2> ha
[16:15] <wxl> and another thing
[16:15] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: I'm not seeing anything breaking. When you're ready, run the update script under /root (so just cd ~)
[16:15] <wxl> steve wiped ubuntu changelog history. i'm not sure why he would do that. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/465792741/qtermwidget_0.14.1-0ubuntu3_0.14.1-2.diff.gz
[16:16] <tsimonq2> wxl: He synced over.
[16:16] <tsimonq2> So EVERYTHING Ubuntu was wiped.
[16:16] <wxl> tsimonq2: i guess what i'm saying is i don't see a reason to EVER wipe changelog history
[16:16] <tsimonq2> wxl: If it's a sync it makes sense.
[16:16] <wxl> in the sense that it's automated?
[16:17] <wxl> cuz it wasn't
[16:17] <kc2bez> oops
[16:17] <tsimonq2> kc2bez: yep, all good
[16:17] <kc2bez> I see that
[16:17] <tsimonq2> Phab is back up, y'all.
[16:17] <tsimonq2> https://phab.lubuntu.me/T100
[16:17] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [High, Open] Lubuntu 20.04: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T100
[16:17] <tsimonq2> Nice.
[16:17] <kc2bez> There may be some changes :P
[16:18] <tsimonq2> Just a couple. :P
[16:18] <wxl> oh my god. it's full of stars.
[16:18] <tsimonq2> wxl: Huh?
[16:19] <wxl> 2001: a space odyssey reference
[16:19] <wxl> which, if you haven't seen, you suck
[16:19] <kc2bez> He's too young
[16:19] <wxl> sorry, no
[16:19] <kc2bez> JK
[16:19] <wxl> there's certain films everyone needs to see
[16:20] <wxl> and in my estimation, all of kubrick's films count
[16:20] <wxl> (although many will argue with me on eyes wide shut)
[16:20] <wxl> ((i do rather loathe tom cruise))
[16:20] <tsimonq2> I was born in 2002.
[16:20] <tsimonq2> wxl: He's a member of your FAVORITE church though.
[16:20] <wxl> OH NOW I GET THE OKE
[16:20] <wxl> tsimonq2: yeah. i know.
 ^ @tsimonq2 all of these commits need to be reviewed.
 Fwd from Inq_bot: <The_LoudSpeaker> https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTOPENSSHASKPASSPACKAGING5b12c424f345f0ada7eb5b0ac8cc07211efc4c61
 Fwd from Inq_bot: <The_LoudSpeaker> https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTNOTIFICATIONDPACKAGING2fbf2a930d26a52692ca39abc7f0a0957ddeab3b
 Fwd from Inq_bot: <The_LoudSpeaker> https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTADMINPACKAGING0228e0c017284885cab3ad20d9b6f49ffd27f7f3
 Fwd from Inq_bot: <The_LoudSpeaker> https://phab.lubuntu.me/rLXQTABOUTPACKAGING145d015a5b0251d1af070a8430278f9e716a60da
[16:21] <tsimonq2> (My birthday is actually exactly 6 months after 9/11.)
[16:21] <tsimonq2> Okay.
 Others are fine. But you can go and review them if you want. XD
[16:23] <tsimonq2> I have to jet for now. I'll be back later.
[16:23] <wxl> when?
[16:23] <tsimonq2> Thanks y'all.
[16:23] <tsimonq2> Later tonight I'm thinking.
[16:23] <tsimonq2> Depending on a few moving parts.
[16:23] <wxl> ok
[16:23] <kc2bez> We should meet again, perhaps weekly.
[16:23] <wxl> yes
[16:24] <wxl> i can handle this time
 Yup!
[16:24] <tsimonq2> Oh, I think that's called a standup? Not sure.
[16:24] <tsimonq2> :P
[16:24] <kc2bez> :P
[16:24] <kc2bez> Which day?
[16:24] <tsimonq2> Any day but Wednesday 4 PM Central.
[16:24] <tsimonq2> 3 PM ifneedbe.
 Anything but the earlier time.
[16:25] <kc2bez> noted
[16:25] <tsimonq2> ack
[16:25] <tsimonq2> XD
[16:25] <wxl> yinz figure it out and when you make a decision let me know
[16:25] <wxl> make sure hans is included
[16:25] <wxl> and lyn
[16:26] <wxl> unless we're drastically changing the time, i'll make it work in my schedule
[16:27] <tsimonq2> ^
[16:27] <tsimonq2> By the way, I just booked flights for LFNW.
[16:28] <tsimonq2> I'm going on my own dime this time, and I'm probably going to spend a lot of the time bouncing around and minimal time at the table.
[16:28] <tsimonq2> I'm also getting my own hotel room because I don't want visitors to I MEAN I'll be 18 and I want my freedom. XD
[16:29] <tsimonq2> If I go on Ubuntu's dime next year, I'll probably share a room. I just want my own sweet, sweet freedom. :P
[16:29] <wxl> uh huh you just can't handle the pillow fights
[16:29] <tsimonq2> XDDDDD
[16:30] <wxl> there's a slim chance in hell i might make it there. maybe. sadly it looks like scale is out for me as i have a work conf to go to
[16:30] <wxl> hm
[16:30] <wxl> i wonder if alf isn't running wrap and sort after all, but with --wrap-always
[16:31] <wxl> without an official recommendation in the debian policy manual it's hard to say which is "correct"
[16:32] <kc2bez> Visually i find it better to read but that is just me.
[16:32] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker on that first one did you yourself run wrap-and-sort?
[16:32] <wxl> @kc2bez: --wrap-always you mean? i.e. the alf way?
[16:33] <kc2bez> Yes
[16:33] <wxl> i agree
 @wxl [<wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker on that first one did you yourself run wrap-and-sort?], No.
[16:33] <wxl> perhaps we should set a policy ourselves
[16:33] <kc2bez> He didn't change it until i pointed it out. mea culpa
[16:34] <wxl> +Depends: qttranslations5-l10n, ${misc:Depends}
[16:34] <wxl> that's not sorted right, is it?
[16:34] <wxl> and in this one he REMOVED the fail-missing? what the heck
[16:35] <wxl> why did we drop the upstream metadata?
[16:55] <wxl> so launchpad answers can't be turned off
[16:55] <wxl> but we can change the contact
[16:55] <wxl> it has to be a person or a team
[16:55] <wxl> maybe i should make up a new team for support
 @wxl [<wxl> and in this one he REMOVED the fail-missing? what the heck], Added it back bhaiya.
[17:00] <wxl> wait what?
[17:01] <wxl> i mean if that's the change they made that's the change they made, but i don't understand it
[17:01] <wxl> i'm questioning alf here not you
 Sare.
 Also, merge tool didn't pull the upstream metadata too.
 As seen in P72
[17:04] <wxl> which merge tool is this?
 Merge-o-Matic
[17:14] <wxl> i see
[17:14] <wxl> shall i say it again? :)
 XD
[17:21] <wxl> so yeah i think you should just grab everything from debian
[17:21] <wxl> here's the diff between debian and what's uploaded https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rHXFt7SSwR/
[17:21] <wxl> get the metadata back
[17:21] <wxl> i guess leave rules alone. i don't udnerstand but whatever
[17:22] <wxl> (unless it breaks and then add it back)
[17:22] <wxl> run wrap-and-sort
[17:22] <wxl> check standards version
[17:22] <wxl> oh there it is yeah that needs updated
[17:30] <wxl> oooh there's a separate admin account password on the new cala
[17:30] <wxl> we might have to fix that
 AFK from my computer rn
[17:31] <wxl> np
[17:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL5040af783e8a: Spellcheck startup disk creator] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL5040af783e8a
[18:10] <RikMills> if do ever use MoM, please please grab the unchanged debian /debian dir and compare that to the merged one. (a) so your merge changelog records the actual differences, and (b) you can see what usless diff MoM left that you can drop :P
[18:10] <wxl> translation: don't use MoM
[18:10] <RikMills> if you do. sanity check the result ;)
[18:11] <wxl> but just don't to begin with :)
[18:11] <RikMills> I prefer not to, I admit
[18:20] <wxl> can someone confirm that calamares asks to set the admin password?
 Still afk. I can't. Probably not until tomorrow morning. Too much pain in the arms.
 Apparently gym shouldn't be taken lightly.
[19:19] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T128: Alt-Tab and Alt-Shift-Tab feature request (openbox conf)] EinarMostad (Einar Mostad) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T128#3223
[19:33] <kc2bez> wxl: I can confirm the admin password thing.
[20:13] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T128: Alt-Tab and Alt-Shift-Tab feature request (openbox conf)] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T128#3224


[18:47] <ianorlin> hmm is something wrong with the desktop images for lubuntu today
[20:06] <phillw> ianorlin: I've not tried the DE ones.. I'm an alternate installer guy. If you have details, I'll go grab one.


[09:25] <Kilos-> o/
[09:25] <Kilos-> not so many dying anymore
[13:09] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +44 cases, +6744 tests since a day ago


[03:12] <duflu> ping robert_ancell
[03:12] <robert_ancell> duflu, hi
[03:12] <duflu> robert_ancell: Hi...
[03:13] <duflu> robert_ancell: I noticed on a couple of Ubuntu systems that if I set it up to use UEFI, there is a very long period of black screen between grub and plymouth. Is that right?
[03:13] <duflu> I'm seeing it consistently on all UEFI configs
[03:13] <duflu> In fact, most of the boot process is black screen. So that's very disconcerting
[03:14] <robert_ancell> duflu, I don't know enough about the early boot sequence to know why that would be
[03:15] <duflu> robert_ancell: OK, no problem. When I have time I will have to experiment further
[03:17] <desrt> robert_ancell: hey... i was testing out u-c-c today
[03:17] <desrt> nice work getting that into main already
[03:18] <robert_ancell> desrt, thanks. Landing the patches to other packages now, then hopefully the transition will be seamless
[03:18] <desrt> robert_ancell: ah.  good.
[03:18] <desrt> i noticed that dejadup is installing two panels now, but not some others (like indicator-datetime).  was wondering what your plans were there :)
[03:18] <robert_ancell> desrt, I've posted the patches upstream, I hope people are happy to take them
[03:18] <desrt> robert_ancell: i guess they'll need to take another patch again soon
[03:19] <desrt> since g-c-c is going to stop supporting 3rd party panels entirely once we drop our patchset
[03:19] <desrt> i almost wonder if it's worthwhile to do it in two steps...
[03:19] <desrt> or just change it straight over
[03:19] <robert_ancell> desrt, actually darkxst said he wanted to keep 3rd party panels
[03:19] <desrt> ah.  interesting.
[03:19] <desrt> well, there you go :)
[03:19] <robert_ancell> desrt, I'm doing it like this because I can't batch up all the changes and sync them into the archive
[03:20] <robert_ancell> then you'd have two control centers that weren't quite right :)
[03:20] <desrt> ya... sometimes i wish we could look the other way for a few days on small issues like this...
[03:20] <desrt> it's pre-alpha, after all...
[03:20] <robert_ancell> I almost did, but then I though it is an LTS and we are focussing on quality :)
[03:21] <desrt> it's not an LTS yet :)
[03:21] <robert_ancell> I'm not sure the right way to uninstall gnome-control-center at the end though. I hope update-manager has some sort of hook to try and apt-get autoremove it
[03:23] <desrt> if i've learnt anything it's this: it's possible to use the right combination of breaks: replaces: recommends: and conflicts: to accomplish anything at all
[03:23] <robert_ancell> desrt, then you just end up with a packaging mess that's unreadable for the next maintainer :(
[03:23] <robert_ancell> we have enough of those
[03:23] <desrt> robert_ancell: i'm told it's all very logical :)
[06:43] <pitti> Good morning
[06:46] <desrt> pitti: hi!!
[06:47] <pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
[06:47] <desrt> getting a bit tired, i guess
[09:02] <Laney> g'morning
[09:05] <seb128> hey Laney
[09:05] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[09:19] <mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
[09:49] <seb128> larsu, hey
[09:50] <seb128> larsu, you like gedit theming issues right? ;-)
[09:50]  * larsu runs
[09:51] <seb128> hum, in fact I wonder if I created that problem
[09:51]  * seb128 test
[09:51] <seb128> if you search for something which has a match
[09:51] <seb128> the "x of y results" has a grey background
[09:51] <seb128> which makes it difficult to read/not look nice
[09:52] <larsu> ya, I see that as well
[09:53] <seb128> larsu, I was wondering if that was due to https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-themes/gedit-background-color/+merge/196310 but it seems not
[09:53] <larsu> that patch _is_ setting the background to theme_base, though
[09:53] <larsu> when it should be transparent
[09:54] <larsu> ah, that's the slider itself though
[09:54] <seb128> right
[09:54] <seb128> that doesn't impact it
[09:54] <seb128> I changed to error_bg_color to see
[09:54] <seb128> that impacts on the border around the entry
[09:56] <seb128> larsu, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/tree/themes/Adwaita/gtk-3.0/gnome-applications.css#n245 ?
[09:56]  * seb128 tries that
[09:57] <seb128> ok, that makes the grey not goes over the border but doesn't fix the color issue
[09:57] <larsu> he, I just tried the same :)
[09:58] <larsu> I think the problem is that we're still setting a background color on every widget
[09:58] <larsu> if I unset it, I get the right behaviour
[09:58] <larsu> well, except that the text is white on white now
[09:59] <larsu> so I have a fix, but I don't like it.
[09:59] <larsu> it seems like we should be doing the right thing: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/dont-set-all-bgs/+merge/197234
[10:00]  * larsu needs to test that patch again, though
[10:00] <seb128> larsu, that works
[10:00] <seb128> .gedit-search-entry-occurrences-tag {
[10:00] <seb128> 	background-color: @theme_bg_color;
[10:00] <seb128>     color: @selected_bg_color;
[10:01] <seb128> but yeah
[10:01] <seb128> we need to get Cimi to review the bgs change again
[10:06] <seb128> larsu, ok, I've applied your no bg changes again, I'm going to keep an eye for rendering issues
[10:07] <seb128> larsu, but yeah, with it the gedit "n on n" hints is not visible at all
[10:08] <larsu> seb128: right, because we need to set the foreground color as well
[10:08] <seb128> larsu, right,
[10:08] <larsu> seb128: do you want me to have a look into that or wait until Cimi acks the bg thing?
[10:09] <seb128> larsu, seems those are orthogonal
[10:09] <seb128> we need something around the line of
[10:09] <seb128>  .gedit-search-entry-occurrences-tag {
[10:09] <seb128>   background-color: @theme_bg_color;
[10:09] <seb128>      color: @selected_bg_color;
[10:09] <seb128>      }
[10:09] <larsu> no, background color must be set to transparent
[10:09] <seb128> well, that works nicely here
[10:09] <larsu> (or apply my no-bg patch)
[10:10] <larsu> but I'd be fine with merging that for now
[10:10]  * larsu cooks up a patch
[10:10] <seb128> well, we need at least the
[10:10] <seb128>      color: @selected_bg_color;
[10:10] <seb128> for the text
[10:10] <larsu> @selected_bg_color is a bad choice for the forground as well
[10:10] <meetingology> larsu: Error: "selected_bg_color" is not a valid command.
[10:10] <seb128> even with your patch
[10:10] <larsu>  @selected_bg_color is a bad choice for the forground as well
[10:10] <seb128> right?
[10:10] <seb128> what do you suggest?
[10:10] <larsu> yep
[10:10] <seb128> I sort of like the hint in orange
[10:10] <seb128> (just tried that)
[10:11] <larsu> I wonder why we don't have the @theme_unfocused_fg_color
[10:11] <larsu> that fits best semantically
[10:11] <larsu> I don't like the orange, it draws too much attention
[10:11] <seb128> well, just add it to gtk-main.css if needed
[10:12] <larsu> the problem with just adding it is that I wouldn't know which color it'd have to be
[10:12] <seb128> we should ask Cimi
[10:12] <seb128> Cimi, ^^
[10:13] <seb128> Cimi, can you help us with some theme question/issues?
[10:14] <seb128> Cimi, can you also review https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/dont-set-all-bgs/+merge/197234 again when you have some cycles?
[10:15] <seb128> larsu, I'm booting a raring image to see what color the hints had before :p
[10:16] <seb128> hum
[10:17] <seb128> raring didn't have the hint
[10:17] <larsu> hehe
[10:18] <larsu> seb128: I think @backdrop_text_color makes most sense
[10:18] <larsu> that's the color that entries and textviews get when they're in an unfocussed window
[10:18] <larsu> the text in them, of course
[10:19] <Cimi> seb128, ok
[10:19] <seb128> seems it's standard black?
[10:19] <larsu> no, a bit lighter
[10:19] <seb128> Cimi, hey, how are you?
[10:19] <seb128> Cimi, thanks ;-)
[10:19] <Cimi> seb128, in bed sick :)
[10:19] <seb128> :-(
[10:19] <larsu> Cimi: :( get better soon!
[10:19] <seb128> Cimi, take some rest and get better!
[10:20] <seb128> larsu, my non designer eyes don't see the difference :p
[10:20] <larsu> :D
[10:20] <Cimi> was sick monday, yesterday I went to the office for a meeting... sick again :)
[10:23] <seb128> Cimi, seems like a good time to do some easy theme reviews and fixes :p
[10:24]  * larsu has to run for a bit. Will be back in ~20 min
[10:25] <Laney> don't run too fast
[10:46] <larsu> lol
[10:58]  * Laney sees mlankhorst on a totem merge changelog
[10:58] <Laney> quelle surprise
[10:59] <mlankhorst> Laney: without love, untested, and directly to the archive. :p
[10:59] <Laney> directly instead of?
[10:59] <Laney> you didn't commit it to the VCS which is how I happened to notice it
[10:59] <mlankhorst> actually testing if it did more than build locally
[10:59] <Laney> uh
[10:59] <Laney> you're proud of that?
[10:59] <Laney> that's a default application ...
[11:00] <mlankhorst> hey I didn't upload it. :P
[11:02] <mlankhorst> besides after I heard it was uploaded without further testing I did test it, because I'd feel guilty if I broke video playing for everyone ;-)
[11:03] <Laney> mmm
[11:08] <mlankhorst> but it was easy to import the debian/ into an empty git tree, and then use git merge to resolve the conflicts
[11:30] <darkxst> seb128, hi
[11:35] <seb128> darkxst, hey
[11:44] <darkxst> seb128, so I have setup a ppa to test gnome-desktop 3.10 transition,
[11:45] <darkxst> the actualy daemon I made from mutter seems to be working well
[11:45] <darkxst> g-s-d took about half a dozen backported patches
[11:49] <darkxst>  ppa:darkxst/gnome-desktop
[11:49] <darkxst> one more patch I need to push for auto-starting d-bus service but right now lp keeps rejecting me ;(
[11:58] <seb128> darkxst, shrug, gnome-desktop transition ... how much do you want that one this cycle? We already have quite some transition ongoing and I don't like the sound of the half a dozen patches to add, nor the fact that it's quite some changes for a LTS cycles
[12:01] <darkxst> seb128, its really the last one
[12:02] <darkxst> and mostly just code moving around causing minor api changes
[12:02] <darkxst> I
[12:02] <darkxst>  also working with upsteam to break out gnome-desktop deps for apps
[12:03] <darkxst> but that won't happen for trusty
[12:03] <seb128> I wouldn't call the addition of a new dbus service to handle resolutions as "minor api change"
[12:05] <darkxst> seb128, outside of gnome-desktop its just minor changes
[12:06] <seb128> right
[12:06] <seb128> it's gnome-desktop that makes me nervous though :p
[12:06] <seb128> btw did you look at the issues with the nautilus update?
[12:07] <darkxst> seb128, not yet, running at limited capacity due to heat-wave here
[12:08] <darkxst> been 40+C everyday this week ;(
[12:08] <seb128> yeah, I saw that in the news
[12:08] <seb128> quite some heat :/
[12:09] <darkxst> yeh! painful heat
[12:16] <seb128> desrt, larsu: want to review https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu-themes/headerbar-fixes/+merge/200477 ?
[12:18] <larsu> seb128: will do after I finish my lunch
[12:19] <seb128> larsu, enjoy lunch ;-)
[12:22] <pitti> seb128: do you have an opinion about https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/libgweather/3.10.1/+merge/200210 ?
[12:22] <pitti> seb128: i. e. ok to update libgweather to 3.10, or should we stay at 3.8?
[12:22] <seb128> pitti, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, I've a quick look, they did some provider changes it seems
[12:23] <pitti> it'll require an e-d-s, gnome-clocks, gnome-panel etc. rebuilds
[12:23] <seb128> pitti, I don't think we use it anywhere important so it should be fine to update
[12:23] <seb128> (e.g it's not going to create issues for ubuntu touch or unity)
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: ok; it'll stay in -proposed for a bit anyway until the transition is done
[12:24] <seb128> ok
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: but I wasn't sure whether we have a general "stay on 3.8" for trusty
[12:24] <seb128> pitti, don't bother rebuilding e-d-s, I plan to do the minor point update today
[12:24] <pitti> seb128: merci
[12:25] <seb128> pitti, no, the rule is "don't take on updates which have potential to create issues" (e.g new GNOME style UIs, refactoring that don't bring us anything useful for the LTS)
[12:25] <pitti> *nod*
[12:25]  * pitti ← too far away from desktop business these days :/
[12:25] <seb128> e.g just good common sense in a conservative cycle
[12:26]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[12:26]  * pitti te donne une accolade en retour
[12:26] <seb128> ;-)
[13:17] <larsu> mitya57: what happens when you include minimize and maximize in GtkWindow-decoration-button-layout?
[13:17] <larsu> you write on that MR that we'll need to revisit it, but can't we just include them now?
[13:17] <larsu> gtk's default is icon:minimize,maximize,close and it doesn't seem to hurt us right now
[13:36] <mitya57> larsu: minimize and maximize didn't work for me, no effect
[13:37] <mitya57> I think 3.10 only supports clos
[13:37] <mitya57> *close
[13:37] <larsu> mitya57: right. My point was that we could include them so that we don't have to look at that again once they work (since they're also included in gtk's default css)
[13:38] <mitya57> In 3.12 we'll need a completely different approach (via gsettings), see my comment
[13:38] <larsu> mitya57: also, it doesn't work for me. gnome-calculator's close button is still on the right
[13:38] <larsu> which version have you tested with
[13:39] <mitya57> I've built gnome-calculator from git, but that shouldn't matter
[13:39] <larsu> me too
[13:39] <larsu> jhbuild to be precise
[13:39] <larsu> I guess I shouldn't link it against gtk master`
[13:39] <larsu> I'll try that in a bit
[13:40] <mitya57> Right, of course it should be using 3.10
[13:40] <larsu> because 3.12 doesn't use that css property anymore?
[13:42] <seb128> GTK compatibility story between series is great isn't it? ;-)
[13:43] <larsu> ya
[13:44] <larsu> I do like that its development has picked up again, though
[13:44] <larsu> before, everyone was complaining that it moved to slowly and didn't have enough modern features
[13:44] <larsu> now it moves to fast...
[13:45] <larsu> seb128: let's do the search occurences fix locally for now. Who knows when cimi has time to review the no-bg thing. https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/gedit-search-occurences/+merge/201775
[13:47] <seb128> larsu, we need to land a change for the text color in any case, having an extra line to workaround the bg doesn't hurt
[13:48] <larsu> that was my thinking as well
[13:48] <larsu> and it won't break when we merge the other branch, because that sets all bgs to transparent
[13:48]  * seb128 waits for the launchpad diff to be generated
[13:48] <larsu> mitya57: cool. works. Thanks for the patch!°
[13:48] <seb128> right
[13:49] <larsu> mitya57: we won't need the transparent fixes after Cimi acks the no-bg branch
[13:49] <larsu> but same reasoning as with my patch just now: it won't hurt, so meh
[13:55] <mitya57> larsu: Ok, let's drop the transparency fix later (or drop it when merging)
[14:11] <seb128> larsu, just as a fyi, I'm SRUing https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/update-sync/+merge/194364 to precise (ara emailed me about it saying you didn't get back to her)
[14:12] <seb128> I guess we just overlooked that with all the GTK crazyness and holidays
[14:15] <Laney> New d-conf at deb http://people.canonical.com/~laney/package-junkyard ./ if anyone wants to try it
[14:15] <seb128> Laney, waouh, you even did i386 builds (for me?) ;-)
[14:15] <larsu> seb128: ok :)
[14:15] <Laney> some people are stuck in the past :P
[14:15] <seb128> going to try that once I'm done with notify-osd
[14:16] <kenvandine> seb128, you got a smart phone... next it'll be time to switch to amd64 :-p
[14:16] <seb128> Laney, rly? coming from the guy using xmonad and gnome-panel? ;-)
[14:17] <seb128> kenvandine, lol
[14:17] <Laney> ahem
[14:18] <pitti> Laney: hm, glib 2.39.1??
[14:18] <Laney> haha
[14:18] <seb128> pitti, welcome to trusty
[14:18] <Laney> DON'T LOOK INSIDE THE REPOSITORY
[14:19] <Laney> OH GOD
[14:19] <seb128> lol
[14:19] <pitti> seb128: well, trusty has 2.39.2
[14:19] <pitti> oh, sorry, these are old packages
[14:19] <pitti> seb128: I meant in Laney's link above
[14:19] <Laney> yeah I should delete those
[14:19] <seb128> pitti, oh, ok, ignore me then ;-)
[14:19] <seb128> one day Laney will discover ppas
[14:19] <seb128> :p
[14:20] <pitti> Laney: do you need testing for those?
[14:20] <Laney> pitti: for dconf
[14:20] <seb128> (I should stop trolling...)
[14:20] <Laney> I'll do glib after lunch
[14:20] <Laney> haha
[14:21] <Laney> It took me about 1 minute to build and upload that package
[14:21] <Laney> try doing that with a PPA
[14:21] <seb128> well, it takes one minutes less for you to build
[14:21] <seb128> it just takes 12 hours more waiting for launchpad to do it :p
[14:22] <pitti> ok, installed; rebooting anyway as I want to test new xkeyboard-config
[14:22] <Laney> good luck
[14:25] <seb128> Laney, seems to work fine for me (didn't restart my session but I did restart the service and tried the editor/setting some keys)
[14:26] <Laney> neat
[14:26] <Laney> not sure if I should upload things after didrocks' email
[14:26] <Laney> will look again after lunch if pitti didn't catch on fire
[14:27] <pitti> Laney: seems quite alright after a reboot (reading); I didn't try changing my config
[14:27] <pitti> although dconf-service is running, i. e. we still write config at boot
[14:29] <seb128> pitti, don't angry desrt like that
[14:30] <seb128> what was the kernel flag to enable dconf blame again?
[14:32] <desrt> >:|
[14:33] <Laney> DCONF_BLAME
[14:34] <desrt> DCONF_ASSERT_IF_STARTED_TOO_SOON
[14:34] <seb128> I just put that on the grub kernel option?
[14:34] <desrt> new option, enabled by default
[14:34] <desrt> and when i say 'option' i mean mandatory, of course
[14:34] <seb128> lol
[14:35]  * seb128 googles for "dconf blame", 3 results is "http://aseigo.blogspot.fr/2005/04/stupidity-of-dconf.html"
[14:35] <ogra_> heh
[14:35] <ogra_> usual suspects ?
[14:36] <desrt> i like aseigo
[14:36] <desrt> he's a really nice guy
[14:36] <seb128> hehe
[14:36] <desrt> always says reasonable things
[14:37] <desrt> never overtly racist or sexist or unreasonable in any way
[14:43] <mlankhorst> whew
[14:44] <seb128> desrt, where is dconf_blame outputing?
[14:46] <desrt> seb128: run the 'dconf blame' command from the commandline
[14:46] <desrt> it will contact the service to fetch the log
[14:48] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[14:48] <seb128> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6756502/
[14:48] <seb128> indicator-sound
[14:48] <seb128> larsu, hide from desrt :p
[14:48] <desrt> larsu: hey.  how are things?
[14:48] <desrt> i hear you're writing to dconf on startup
[14:48] <desrt> let's talk.... out back for uh.... privacy
[14:49]  * larsu would never do such a thing!
[14:50] <desrt> i should check the monotonic time and if it's <~20s automatically blame
[14:50] <desrt> since it's probably unlikely that the user changes a setting within 20s of machine boot
[14:50] <larsu> that's very arbitrary
[14:51] <desrt> ya.... that's why i don't like it, which is ultimately why i won't do it
[14:51] <larsu> and probably fails in many cases
[14:51] <desrt> but requiring a reboot is kind annoying too
[14:51] <larsu> what exactly is blame doing?
[14:52] <desrt> it logs all requests that the service processes along with the output of 'ps f' at the time of the request
[14:52] <larsu> the man page doesn't even mention it :-/
[14:52] <desrt> so you can find out who is responsible
[14:52] <desrt> larsu: it's a bit of an easter-egg feature
[14:52] <larsu> and it does so indefintely?
[14:52] <desrt> yes
[14:52] <desrt> you have to enable it with a kernel commandline argument...
[14:52] <larsu> right
[14:53] <larsu> what's in "parameters", the params to the dbus call?
[14:53] <desrt> junk
[14:53] <desrt> i should fix that
[14:53] <desrt> it used to show what the call was
[14:53] <larsu> so it won't contain useful information to me?
[14:53] <desrt> but then i switched to sending the change request as a gvariant blob
[14:53]  * larsu wonders why sound would write on startup
[14:53] <desrt> to avoid hacks to deal with things like () and 'm' that dbus rejects
[14:54] <larsu> ah, right
[14:54] <larsu> but I can't find out from this which key is affected?
[14:54] <desrt> you can
[14:54] <desrt> but you have to deserialise it :)
[14:54] <desrt> gimme a sec
[14:55] <seb128> larsu, btw no need to reboot, you can add DCONF_BLAME=1 in /etc/environment and start e.g a guest session
[14:56] <larsu> seb128: ah cool thanks
[14:56] <larsu> desrt: I need g_variant_new_from_python_data_structure!
[14:57] <seb128> well, guest session is probably not the best one
[14:57] <desrt> >>> GLib.Variant.new_from_bytes(GLib.VariantType.new('a{smv}'), GLib.Bytes.new([0x2f, 0x63, 0x6f, 0x6d, 0x2f, 0x63, 0x61, 0x6e, 0x6f, 0x6e, 0x69, 0x63, 0x61, 0x6c, 0x2f, 0x69, 0x6e, 0x64, 0x69, 0x63, 0x61, 0x74, 0x6f, 0x72, 0x2f, 0x73, 0x6f, 0x75, 0x6e, 0x64, 0x2f, 0x69, 0x6e, 0x74, 0x65, 0x72, 0x65, 0x73, 0x74, 0x65, 0x64, 0x2d, 0x6d, 0x65, 0x64, 0x69, 0x61, 0x2d, 0x70, 0x6c, 0x61, 0x79, 0x65, 0x72, 0x73, 0x00, 0x74, 0x6f, 0x74, 0x65, 0x6d, 0x2e, 0x
[14:57] <desrt> GLib.Variant('a{smv}', {'/com/canonical/indicator/sound/interested-media-players': <['totem.desktop']>})
[14:57] <seb128> I get a log long there
[14:57] <seb128> long
[14:57] <seb128> it's first login and some stuff like migrations and compiz profile init happen
[14:59] <larsu> desrt: thanks! It only writes to this key when an app contacts it...
[15:00] <larsu> at least, it should
[15:00] <desrt> larsu: no.
[15:00] <larsu> no?!
[15:00] <seb128> I didn't start totem for ages
[15:00] <desrt> you only write to gsettings in response to user interaction
[15:00] <desrt> not some app contacting you on an API
[15:00] <larsu> "please remove a feature because this is not how I designed this library"
[15:01] <desrt> "because you're slowing down login"
[15:01] <seb128> larsu, I didn't start any player in that session, so there is probably a bug
[15:01] <larsu> desrt: user interaction in this case is "user starts totem"
[15:01] <larsu> well, it might simply be a bug
[15:01] <larsu> seb128: right
[15:02] <seb128> larsu, it's followed by
[15:02] <seb128> GLib.Variant('a{smv}', {'/com/canonical/indicator/sound/interested-media-players': <['totem.desktop', 'rhythmbox.desktop']>})
[15:02]  * desrt is glad he shared the recipe :)
[15:03]  * desrt guesses that a gobject 'notify' signal is involved here somehow
[15:03] <larsu> bah!
[15:03] <larsu> desrt: no... but a signal
[15:04] <seb128> hum
[15:04] <seb128> next one is g-s-d
[15:04] <seb128> GLib.Variant('a{smv}', {'/org/gnome/desktop/interface/enable-animations': <true>})
[15:04] <seb128> I guess that's an upstream bug
[15:04] <desrt> ya
[15:04] <desrt> i think that's already fixed
[15:04] <desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694692
[15:04] <ubot2> Gnome bug 694692 in plugins "disable animations shouldn't be toggled with gsettings" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[15:05] <larsu> desrt: it's the typical round trip: read from a key into a collection which notifies that it has changed...
[15:05] <desrt> larsu: oops.
[15:05] <larsu> which writes back the key
[15:05] <larsu> who wrote this shit and what was I thinking!
[15:05] <desrt> if you're using bindings then it should protect against that...
[15:05] <larsu> it's even in a separate commit :/
[15:05] <larsu> desrt: it's not a property
[15:05] <seb128> larsu, want a bug report about it?
[15:05] <desrt> larsu: ought to be :)
[15:06] <desrt> anything that changes and has a getter is prime property-making material
[15:06] <larsu> desrt: it will be if you make having a list of things as a property simple
[15:06] <larsu> seb128: nah, I'm on it already
[15:06] <seb128> larsu, thanks ;-)
[15:06] <larsu> unless it's easier for you to track later on
[15:06] <desrt> larsu: ah... not a strv, then
[15:06] <desrt> but rather a glist of objects?
[15:06] <larsu> ya, it's a pain
[15:06] <larsu> esp from vala
[15:07] <desrt> vala would make that easier, i think?
[15:07] <larsu> how does the binding stuff protect against that btw?
[15:07] <desrt> when it's changing the property it sets a flag and ignores property change notifications during that time
[15:08] <larsu> there's a race if you check against the previous value, no
[15:08] <larsu> ah, that makes sense
[15:08] <desrt> it's kinda ugly, but surprisingly effective
[15:08] <larsu> ya
[15:08] <larsu> and probably the only way?!
[15:08] <desrt> you could do the compare
[15:08] <desrt> but i consider it evil
[15:08] <desrt> after all, people only write to settings on user interaction, right?
[15:09] <desrt> also: until last cycle it was not strictly possible to do the compare
[15:09] <seb128> ok, so the login list is small, it's indicator-sound*2, compiz*2 (settings the active-profile to "default" then "unity") and g-s-d for the enable-animation key
[15:09] <desrt> because the value that you read may have been the default value and the user may have wanted to _explicitly_ set the key in their own database
[15:09] <seb128> then in my log is gedit that I ran manually, which writes a bunch of keys on start
[15:09] <desrt> with the get_user_value() stuff of last cycle, a compare is more viable without breaking semantics
[15:09] <seb128> e.g
[15:09] <seb128> GLib.Variant('a{smv}', {'/org/gnome/gedit/preferences/ui/notebook-show-tabs-mode': <'always'>})
[15:10] <desrt> seb128: let me see if the new gedit has this problem
[15:10] <desrt> because i love nagging those guys lately :)
[15:10] <seb128> ;-)
[15:10] <larsu> desrt: you still have a race when the user interacts quickly...
[15:11] <desrt> bah... i erased my jhbuild to make room for a git checkout of webkit
[15:11] <desrt> ...and i don't feel like rebuilding it
[15:11] <desrt> larsu: not really......
[15:11] <desrt> if the user submits a request that says "i want the key to have value 'X' now"
[15:11] <desrt> and i see that it already has value X...
[15:11] <desrt> request over...
[15:12] <desrt> there's another case that i already do this for, in fact: if an in-flight change is the same as the one just requested
[15:12] <desrt> i just drop the new one
[15:13] <desrt> er... not in-flight sorry... pending
[15:13] <desrt> (dconf's request management system is a bit complicated)
[15:13] <larsu> this is in dconf though, I was talking about in the app
[15:13] <desrt> same deal there, no?
[15:13] <desrt> the only thing you would have to worry about contending with is other people setting the key at the same time
[15:13] <desrt> and you'd have to worry about that anyway -- if their request came second then you'd lose your desired value anyway
[15:13] <larsu> which we don't have to worry about??
[15:14] <larsu> it's not about the desired value, it's when you read the value and then make a decision whether to write the new one based on that
[15:14]  * desrt appears confused
[15:15]  * larsu fixes the bug instead and lets desrt do the thinking about dconf races
[15:15] <desrt> i understand what you're saying... but i'm saying that the only situation in which this approach would present a problem for you is one in which you already have the problem anyway
[15:15] <desrt> which is that a second process may be writing at the same time
[15:16] <desrt> you can still lose, even if you always explicitly queue your write
[15:16] <larsu> but that's allowed, no?
[15:16] <desrt> the other guy's write just needs to come after
[15:16] <desrt> yes.  it's allowed.
[15:16] <desrt> but you're already losing
[15:16] <desrt> with or without the equal-value check
[15:16] <desrt> it makes absolutely no difference...
[15:16] <larsu> hm, makes sense
[15:41] <ochosi> larsu: ping
[15:41] <larsu> ochosi: hey
[15:42] <ochosi> larsu: hi there :) i quickly wanted to ask you about indicator merge-requests
[15:42] <larsu> go ahead :)
[15:42] <ochosi> i submitted a merge-request a while ago (quite simple) to add support for xfce4-powermanager to indicator-power
[15:42] <ochosi> i just saw that robert_ancell proposed this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-power/unity-control-center2
[15:43] <ochosi> i presume that is *very* likely to get merged
[15:43] <larsu> and yours didn't get merged?
[15:43] <ochosi> at least not yet: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/indicator-power/xfce4-powermanager-settings
[15:44] <ochosi> they're overlapping functionally, though the code-style isn't the same
[15:44] <ochosi> i guess after merging robert's branch, my patch would become a 2-liner or so
[15:45] <ochosi> the main difference is that i added checking for the running session
[15:46] <ochosi> (same code is already used in indicator-sound btw)
[15:46] <larsu> ochosi: right. Sorry that we didn't approve that earlier. Since robert's seems to be on the way in, do you mind rebasing yours once it landed?
[15:46] <larsu> feel free to ping me to approve it then
[15:46] <ochosi> no, i can totally do that
[15:46] <ochosi> no worries
[15:47] <ochosi> thanks larsu
[15:49] <larsu> ochosi: ya, no problem :)
[15:50] <larsu> seb128: want to give this a whirl? https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-sound/dont-write-settings-on-startup/+merge/201804
[16:12] <filosofixit> Suddenly all the menu items in the context menus are greyed out. A restart does not help. Anyone know a solution?
[16:15] <filosofixit> awfully quiet here.. :/
[16:18] <mitya57> filosofixit: see the topic ("For support please join #ubuntu" part)
[16:21] <filosofixit> mitya : my bad , sorry :/
[16:37] <seb128> larsu, I was out for some errands, sure I can give that a try ;-)
[16:41] <larsu> seb128: no worries, it's not urgent (but don't tell desrt ;) )
[16:41] <seb128> larsu, ;-)
[17:03]  * Laney blurgs in webkit land
[17:04] <seb128> Laney, good luck!
[17:04] <Laney> 2 days to build on arm64/qemu :(
[17:08] <desrt> ...something is not quite right there
[17:09] <desrt> webkit just massively pushes every reasonable metric of what it is to be a project
[17:09] <desrt> its git repository is 5GB and takes longer to unpack than it does to download (which is still quite long)
[17:09] <desrt> it takes 10GB to build it without debugging on freebsd
[17:09] <desrt> ...and a good deal of time
[17:10] <desrt> just madness
[17:11] <larsu> desrt: the web is a "platform" now. I don't think any other platform is in a single git repo...
[17:11] <Laney> I remember having to patch make to deal with the number of files it was specifying
[17:11] <Laney> that was great
[17:12] <larsu> imagine all of gnome in one git repo
[17:12] <desrt> larsu: until webkit starts shipping its own drivers and bootloader....
[17:12] <larsu> desrt: I didn't say operating system and put plaform in quotes so that you couldn't make that point. sigh.
[17:14] <Laney> I guess libreoffice has a lot of the same problems
[17:16] <desrt> larsu: i'd argue that firefox is more complete in every way
[17:16] <desrt> and although it's big, it's not webkit-epic-level
[17:16] <larsu> fair enough. What is webkit doing wrong then?
[17:17] <desrt> probably has a lot to do with the dialect of c++ that they speak
[18:37]  * didrocks waves good evening
[21:11] <ChrisTownsend> attente: Thanks for that Compiz fix!
[21:11] <attente> ChrisTownsend, thanks for approving :)
[21:12] <ChrisTownsend> attente: My pleasure
[22:02] <attente> ChrisTownsend, hmm. the tests pass, but the c-i is still failing :/
[22:04] <ChrisTownsend> attente: Looks like it could be some Jenkins issue.  I'll try pinging someone in a bit.
[22:05] <attente> ChrisTownsend, ok, thanks :)


[11:44] <ak_dev> kjackal: kjackal_: kjackal__ : what is the difference between relation_get and get_remote?
[11:44] <ak_dev> and likewise, between relation_set and set_remote ?
[11:45] <kjackal_> ak_dev: let me see what relation_set is doing
[11:46] <ak_dev> kjackal_: yeah okay
[11:51] <kjackal_> ak_dev: seems the set/get_remote is used to send/recieve data to/from the other side. The relation_set seems to be setting relation info for the current unit. Did you see relation_set in an example?
[11:53] <ak_dev> i saw relation_set in the docs here : https://jujucharms.com/docs/2.1/reference-charm-hooks, which says that the [name]-relation-changed will trigger only when settings are changed (I am assuming via relation_set)
[11:54] <ak_dev> does set_remote/get_remote trigger [name]-relation-changed hook?
[11:54] <kjackal_> ak_dev: yes it does
[11:55] <ak_dev> kjackal_: ah okay, and i can do set/get_remote multiple time too right? and it should change the data
[11:55] <kjackal_> correct
[11:56] <ak_dev> kjackal_: cool, thanks ! I am going forward with the peer relation thing itself, stub suggested against using leadership layer for this use case
[11:56] <kjackal_> ok ak_dev, you know best
[11:58] <ak_dev> kjackal_: just trying to learn, going forward with what you and others are suggesting here :-)
[12:05] <ak_dev> kjackal_: sorry to disturb you again, but will the [name]-relation-joined trigger for each new unit added? (in case of peer relation)
[12:06] <ak_dev> also, if I understand right, if the above happens, then in case of three units,  [name]-relation-joined should be run twice on each unit right?
[12:07] <kjackal_> ak_dev: I think so, yes. Usualy you handle the join and changed hooks in the same method
[12:08] <ak_dev> kjackal_: oh alright, thanks again :-)


[14:36] <bittin> 22.10 building going on?
[14:37] <lotuspsychje> bittin: you can idle in #ubuntu-quality to see the iso's releasing message
[14:37] <bittin> lotuspsychje: ah thanks
[14:37] <lotuspsychje> bittin: for example; Builds: Ubuntu Desktop amd64 [Kinetic Final] has been updated (20221020
[14:38] <bittin> lotuspsychje: ah yeah thanks


[04:47]  * micahg better upload more stuff, jtaylor is catching up fast
[06:57] <dholbach> good morning
[08:14] <dholbach> I'll start an Ubuntu-On-Air hangout in a bit - anyone wants to co-host?
[08:14]  * xnox sorry, bad hair day.
[08:15] <Rhonda> sorry, at work.
[08:15] <dholbach> no worries
[08:16] <dholbach> I'll do an intro to ubuntu development I thought
[08:30] <xnox> dholbach: in german?
[08:33] <dholbach> xnox, english of course
[08:33] <xnox> dholbach: =(
[08:34] <xnox> you should do one in german & french I think =)
[08:34] <dholbach> haha
[08:34] <dholbach> next time
[08:34] <xnox> dholbach: team up with seb128
[08:35] <Laney> with live translation into lettish by xnox
[08:35]  * xnox *giggles* Ich spreche Lettish nicht so gut.
[17:25] <gotwig> hey there, please take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nodejs/+bug/1065598
[17:25] <gotwig> luck, to get an exception for a fix?
[17:26] <gotwig> in the last cyle, there were also critical nodeJS bugs, so an exception was permitted
[17:26] <micahg> gotwig: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2012/07/msg00002.html
[17:28] <gotwig> micahg: so what
[17:28] <micahg> gotwig: so node as a binary is no longer provided, you need to use nodejs
[17:28] <gotwig> micahg: yes, I see but look at the end of http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=614907
[17:29] <gotwig> > It has been resolved for days now, would please someone
[17:29] <gotwig> > implement the solution? I can, as offered previously, help.
[17:29] <gotwig> If this needs an NMU then that's fine; I'd be happy to sponsor it if
[17:29] <gotwig> necessary.
[17:29] <micahg> hrm?  the "fixed" version is in quantal
[17:30] <gotwig> micahg: eh, no?
[17:30] <gotwig> micahg: in which package
[17:30] <micahg> nodejs
[17:30] <gotwig> micahg: no.
[17:31] <gotwig> micahg: log?
[17:31] <micahg> gotwig: what are you looking for?
[17:31] <micahg> nodejs in quantal implements that decision
[17:32] <jtaylor> gotwig: you need to install nodejs-legacy
[17:34] <gotwig> jtaylor: I also heared that
[17:34] <gotwig> jtaylor: I am going to give it a try, thanks
[17:35] <gotwig> what means "legacy" in this case
[17:35] <jtaylor> that bin/node should not be used
[17:35] <gotwig> but many nodejs apps use it
[17:35] <gotwig> for system wide configurations
[17:35] <jtaylor> yes, but its wrong
[17:36] <gotwig> becouse?
[17:36] <jtaylor> namespace polution
[17:36] <gotwig> ok
[17:36] <jtaylor> bin/node is already taken
[17:36] <jtaylor> and its far to generic
[17:36] <jtaylor> the other node is also forcibly renamed in debian
[17:37] <micahg> if you find a broken app in the archive, please file a bug against it (I think we tried to pull in as many fixes as we saw ready in Debian for this)
[17:37] <gotwig> why is legacy not a dependency, suggestion, what ever of nodejs package?
[17:37] <micahg> gotwig: did you read the link I gave you about the "why" of all this?
[17:37] <jtaylor> hm I guess because debian does not want people using it
[17:37] <gotwig> yes
[17:37] <jtaylor> but it could be added
[17:38] <gotwig> debian is a philosophy
[17:38] <jtaylor> afk a while
[17:38] <micahg> gotwig: see point 2 in that message
[17:39] <gotwig> offtopic: have you seen this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nodejs/+bug/882880
[17:48] <gotwig> after installing legacy, it also fixed other problems
[17:52] <jtaylor> sigsegv due to missing binary?
[17:52] <jtaylor> a sign of quality software
[17:56] <gotwig> g2g
[17:56] <gotwig> thx for support
[22:56] <bobweaver> hello there I am writing a puppet script and am at the point when making gpg  I am using find / -name *  to gain entropy got any clues to gather it faster ?


[13:31] <scott-work> ubuntu is one of the most awesomess distributions on the face of the planet
[13:31] <scott-work> but i can't understand why the wiki performs so poorly and frustratingly
[13:39] <holstein> scott-work: im glad its not just me
[13:41] <charlie-tca> um, they did give it a new update yesterday... Now it takes a LOT longer to log in
[13:44] <scott-work> i wanted to edit one of the pages i use to plan releases
[13:44] <scott-work> i have to log in again
[13:44] <scott-work> i log in again
[13:44] <scott-work> it takes me to the wiki.ubuntu.com home page
[13:45]  * scott-work scratches his head thinking it didn't do that before
[13:45] <scott-work> i click my bookmark to take me to my release planning page
[13:45] <scott-work> it tells me i have to log in again
[13:45] <scott-work> -> infinite cycle
[13:45] <scott-work> holstein: i was rereading the OSM blog and rediscovered abgate, the lv2 plugin that is a noise gate
[13:46] <holstein> yeah, i routinely get an error message when i save
[13:46] <scott-work> i wanted to add it to the seeds for oneiric when i make the other changes
[13:46] <scott-work> weird...after three tries, now i can go to this page and edit it :)
[13:47] <astraljava> Yeah, that wiki SUCKS!
[13:50] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I got the same nonsense logging in
[13:50] <charlie-tca> The improvement appears to be another step backwards
[13:50] <charlie-tca> At least before it took me to the page I wanted after login
[13:52] <holstein> maybe its just outgrown itself
[13:52] <holstein> the amount of users/pages
[13:54] <charlie-tca> I haven' t seen any other moinmoin wiki so slow though
[13:54] <charlie-tca> I think it has more to do with Ubuntu/Canonical changes that don't quite work
[14:11] <scott-work> i didn't think the wiki worked well before, and it seems to be working less well now
[14:11] <scott-work> :(
[14:12] <astraljava> Yeah. Are the powers that be not using it at all?
[14:12] <scott-work> i wouldn't think this should be a scalability issue
[14:12] <scott-work> s/should/should NOT
[14:12] <astraljava> Or is no-one just complaining about it?
[14:13] <scott-work> unless they have an old P3 with 512M memory in a cupboard is being used for the wiki ;)
[14:13] <charlie-tca> tried filing bugs against it?
[14:14] <scott-work> i haven't filed a bug for this specific item at this point
[14:14] <charlie-tca> I have; it results in " we are working on it, but it takes a while to get the changes approved"
[14:14] <scott-work> but i believe i have seen a bug about the wiki being so slow before and with all the errors
[14:14] <astraljava> *rolls eyes*
[15:12] <falktx> hi there
[15:22] <scott-work> hi falktx
[15:22] <falktx> hey scott-work
[15:22] <scott-work> i tried the menu dilliwhopper again last night
[15:23] <scott-work> i rebooted and the menu looked the same
[15:23] <scott-work> i even checked to see that ubuntustudio-menu was installed, which it was
[15:23] <scott-work> should i install other ubuntustudio packages?
[15:23] <scott-work> should i start with ubuntu studio install and then add xfce on top of it?
[15:24] <falktx> hm....
[15:25] <falktx> scott-work: the menu looked exactly the same? like no audio p. menu at all ?
[15:25] <scott-work> correct
[15:25] <scott-work> i did not see an audio submenu
[15:26] <scott-work> and of course ardour, qjackctl,hydrogen, rakarrack were all in multimedia
[15:26] <scott-work> falktx: there is possibly another issue
[15:27] <scott-work> when i have tested installing ubuntustudio packages on top of a vanilla ubuntu install i needed to add a "other menu" widget to the panel
[15:27] <scott-work> this gave me the ubuntustudio menu for that install (which was still on gnome2)
[15:27] <scott-work> in fact i could have an icon for the vanilla ubuntu menu and the ubuntu studio menu on the same panel
[15:28] <scott-work> could this be a similar situation?
[15:28]  * scott-work had looked before for an additional menu widget to add to the panel but didn't find one
[15:29] <falktx> scott-work: please test the us-menu with my patch and see if this is fixed
[15:30] <falktx> scott-work: oh, the ISO script is kinda working now:
[15:30] <falktx> http://kxstudio.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=kxstudio/kxstudio;a=blob_plain;f=scripts/kxstudio-create-iso;hb=master
[15:31] <falktx> scott-work: I had some disk issues so I was unable to complete the ISO (kernel img went 0 size...)
[15:31] <scott-work> falktx: will do (test with patch)
[15:32] <scott-work> falktx: are you saying that i should try the script and that you expect it to work for me?
[15:32] <falktx> scott-work: it should be able to create a basic iso right now, not sure...
[15:33] <falktx> I was able to build the filesystem.fs, but because of that kernel thing it failed to create the boot
[15:33] <falktx> hm, let me try it again...
[16:02] <falktx> scott-work: the iso script is pretty much finished, I only need to add the auto-creation of the needed files for boot menu
[16:03] <falktx> like boot.cfg, etc
[16:21] <scott-work> falktx: super sweet!  in the next couple of weeks i'll be sending you some money via paypal :)
[16:22] <falktx> scott-work: no hurry, I'm still testing this
[17:12] <falktx-work> scott-work: the script is working!
[17:12] <falktx-work> just some final details and it will be complete
[17:12] <falktx-work> I'm amazed how I got this working so fast...
[17:13] <falktx-work> scott-work: I'm rebuilding the squashfs now, I'll let you know how it goes
[18:29] <astraljava> So is anyone here actually running natty at the moment?
[18:31] <holstein> astraljava: i have test installs
[18:31] <holstein> i DL'd xubuntu 11.10 last nite, and tried it live on my netbook
[18:31] <astraljava> holstein: But are you running it right now?
[18:31] <holstein> there was a nasty bug with the wifi card on this box and 11.04, and that seems to be sorted out :)
[18:32] <holstein> astraljava: nah, but i can boot in if you need
[18:32] <charlie-tca> Mine is oneiric
[18:32] <holstein> i can be in it in 4 minutes
[18:32] <astraljava> holstein: I wouldn't ask that of you. I'm just amazed that in my setup, there's no possibility of saving the currently running applications in Startup Applications.
[18:33] <astraljava> This is a ubuntu vanilla install with all ubuntustudio packages.
[18:34] <holstein> astraljava: is there anything like that normally?
[18:34] <astraljava> Could something have messed up the original install, or has it been removed completely?
[18:34] <holstein> i see an option when shutting xubntu down
[18:34] <astraljava> holstein: Yeah there was at least in 10.10.
[18:34] <astraljava> But I haven't installed vanilla 11.04 on anything else, and I didn't check before I installed ubuntustudio packages.
[18:35] <holstein> astraljava: wheres the option and i'll check
[18:35] <astraljava> System | Preferences | Startup Applications
[18:35] <holstein> im just watching 'short circuit' and about to run out for a sandwich
[18:35] <astraljava> There should be some tab where you could save them.
[18:35] <astraljava> Haha. :D
[18:36] <astraljava> I just had a pizza. :D
[18:36] <holstein> OH yeah... i see that option in 10.04
[18:36] <holstein> ive never used it though...
[18:37]  * holstein checks natty
[18:37] <holstein> astraljava: yeah, that tab is gone now it seems
[18:37] <holstein> interesting
[18:38] <holstein> i actually didnt install any of the meta packages on here either
[18:38] <holstein> just JACK and ardour and some others
[18:39] <charlie-tca> astraljava: that is in settings -> Session and Startup in Xubuntu
[18:39] <holstein> thats from both classic and unity
[18:39] <holstein> charlie-tca: still there in 11.10 for you?
[18:39] <charlie-tca> May have gone with appearance settings in Unity, though
[18:39] <charlie-tca> yes, Xubuntu 11.10 has that
[18:40] <holstein> well, its moved or taken out in gnome and unity :/
[18:40] <charlie-tca> You can also right click the panel, click panel, click logoff and mark it there
[18:40] <charlie-tca> right, gnome/unity removed several thing
[18:41] <astraljava> holstein: Thanks!
[18:41] <astraljava> Damn, that's a loss.
[18:41] <holstein> right?
[18:41] <holstein> thats odd i think
[18:41] <holstein> size maybe?... or unity integration i guess
[18:42] <charlie-tca> You can't find what used to be system -> Preferences -> Appearance either now in unity
[18:42] <holstein> yeah :/
[18:42] <holstein> growing pains, at least i hope its growth
[18:43] <holstein> alright... lunch... BBL
[18:55] <scott-work_> charlie-tca: how did you install your oneiric?  i couldn't get the vanilla ubuntu to work
[18:55]  * scott-work_ is wondering if he should have finished the backscroll before asking the question
[18:58] <charlie-tca> I used the Xubuntu alpha1 image
[18:58] <charlie-tca> I did not use Ubuntu's image, cause it drags in too much of Gnome
[19:04]  * scott-work_ will be install xubuntu this weekend on his development machine :)
[19:04] <charlie-tca> Keep in mind, we haven't had a good image for over a week now
[21:22] <holstein> yeah, i was using xubuntu alpha1 too