[12:03] <dfgas_> ty that worked
[02:38] <spike> ubijtsa2: u there?
[06:06] <ubijtsa2> spike: now I am
[06:06] <ubijtsa2> morning all
[12:55] <spike> 'morning
[12:56] <fabbione> hi spike
[12:56] <fabbione> hi all
[12:56] <ubijtsa> lo spike
[12:56] <ubijtsa> lo fabbione
[12:57] <spike> hey ubijtsa
[12:57] <spike> I'm gonna take a shower, bbl
[12:57] <ubijtsa> spike: I missed your hail last night, I'd been asleep for about three hours by then :)
[12:57] <spike> ubijtsa: ehehe, nm
[12:58] <spike> ubijtsa: I tend to be up most of the night and sleep a bit more in the morning
[12:58] <ubijtsa> I usually go bed around ten in the week
[12:59] <ubijtsa> with a one year old kid (in six days) you tend to get sleep while they do ;)
[12:59] <spike> well, guess u have to be @ the office @ 9 and wake up preatty early to drive there
[12:59] <spike> oh, yeah, definitely :)
[12:59] <spike> pretty*
[12:59] <ubijtsa> I get up at 5, try and hit the m-way before 6:30 and get to the office before 8
[01:00] <ubijtsa> then I can go home at four :)
[01:03] <spike> ubijtsa: I just wanted to ask you about permissions to work in uk, but apparently as an EU citizen there's no prob (jobserve has got a box saying about required permissions on the top right corner)
[01:03] <ubijtsa> if you are resident in another eu country, all you need is your passport iirc
[01:04] <ubijtsa> there is something about an health form you need as well, what used to be known as an E111
[01:04] <ubijtsa> other than that, np
[01:04] <ubijtsa> where in the .eu do you hail from?
[01:05] <spike> yup, gotta get that, I'll check out the .uk local council website for directions
[01:05] <spike> ubijtsa: .it
[01:05] <ubijtsa> should be no problem then :)
[01:07] <spike> anyway, shower time, c u in a bit
[02:38] <kokoko1> when would ubuntu server first release expected?
[02:41] <spike> April 2006
[02:41] <spike> doh
[02:41] <spike> ppl has no patience
[02:46] <ubijtsa> well, 5.10 did have a server image
[02:49] <spike> honestly speaking, to me that always looked like an advertising attempt, just to attract interest
[02:51] <spike> ubijtsa: there's nothing worth in there, it's just ubuntu, good as it is, not really a server version.
[02:51] <ogra> sure
[02:51] <ogra> it comes with all available kernel images on the Cd for example
[03:10] <tuhl> ping fabbione
[03:10] <fabbione> tuhl: pong
[03:10] <tuhl> my company is planning to provide a ubuntu-server for zSeries
[03:10] <tuhl> we have already registered the project
[03:11] <fabbione> ok
[03:11] <tuhl> we are waiting for the open of th build plattform
[03:12] <tuhl> we will do that on your mainframe z900
[03:12] <fabbione> our?
[03:12] <tuhl> are you using the new buildd already for server.ubuntu
[03:13] <fabbione> tuhl: we don't have an s390 port of ubuntu
[03:13] <fabbione> and afaik we don't have a buildd.
[03:13] <tuhl> fabbione: we will do that
[03:14] <tuhl> we did that for an Redhat distro 32 and 64 bit
[03:14] <fabbione> tuhl: ok, i don't have enough background info to follow you. would you mind to send me via email the details of the project?
[03:14] <infinity> As in, you will build evetrything yourselves, or you will provide us with a buildd, so I can do the port for you?
[03:14] <fabbione> did you contact also other people or i am your first contact?
[03:14] <infinity> (Note: the latter is probably easier)
[03:15] <tuhl> as you probably heard the debian port will be discontunied
[03:15] <fabbione> yes we are aware of that
[03:15] <infinity> Erm.  Since when?
[03:15] <fabbione> infinity: it has been taken out of RC because there are only 2 porters
[03:15] <infinity> It's not currently a release candidate arch, that's a pretty far cry from "will be discontinued"
[03:15] <tuhl> infinity: we can help to port and provide the ahrdware
[03:16] <tuhl> as far as I understood Mark , when I met him the new build platform ie designed for that kind of scenrio
[03:16] <tuhl> we have a deep knowledge of the zSeries
[03:16] <infinity> It's not (currently) designed to allow building outside our network very easily.
[03:17] <tuhl> infinity: we can provide a VPN
[03:17] <infinity> That may do.
[03:17] <fabbione> tuhl: no that won't work. it's not a VPN problem
[03:17] <fabbione> infinity: nope.. the machine needs to be phisically at the DC
[03:17] <infinity> fabbione: Actually, a secure tunnel would probably be fine, for an isolated and unsupported port.
[03:17] <fabbione> and nobody other than you/elmo with root
[03:18] <infinity> tuhl: If we're expected to "own" the port and provide commercial support for it, we'd need to have the hardware in our control, afaik.
[03:18] <fabbione> infinity: yes.. possibly
[03:18] <tuhl> infinity: that is the reason why we named it zUbuntu
[03:18] <tuhl> infinity: I cant move the hardware
[03:18] <infinity> tuhl: No, it's rather heavy, I can't move it either. :)
[03:18] <tuhl> yes
[03:18] <fabbione> i can.. i am HE-MAN!
[03:19] <infinity> tuhl: But doing it as a seperate port until we can get our own hardware and roll it into the Ubuntu family seems doable to me.
[03:19] <tuhl> and we are running VMs for several different projects on the system
[03:19] <tuhl> infinity: ok
[03:19] <fabbione> tuhl: i think we would all like to have some background before starting any port
[03:19] <infinity> tuhl: I assume we could have a reasonably beefy VM with carte blanche to run the buildd on?
[03:19] <tuhl> we will add some plattform specific enhancements
[03:19] <fabbione> tuhl: you said you did speak with Mark, right?
[03:19] <tuhl> infinity: yes
[03:19] <tuhl> fabbione: yes
[03:19] <tuhl> @GUADEC
[03:19] <fabbione> ok
[03:20] <tuhl> he added zUbuntu 2 days ago to launchpad
[03:20] <infinity> tuhl: It's way past time for me to be in bed right now, but as Canonical's buildd maintainer, I may want to talk further with you and Mark in the same room about this.
[03:20] <tuhl> ok
[03:20] <fabbione> tuhl: i think you can keep going with infinity and Mark.
[03:20] <tuhl> my jabber id is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:21] <tuhl> fabbione: ok
[03:21] <fabbione> i am not directly involved into porting
[03:21] <fabbione> tuhl: btw i did deny your jabber access. I only use jabber for private stuff. OSS is on irc
[03:21] <infinity> tuhl: jabber request sent.
[03:21] <tuhl> fabbione: ok
[03:22] <fabbione> just my personal policy, nothing personal :)
[03:22] <tuhl> infinity: your ID?
[03:22] <infinity> tuhl<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:22] <infinity> org, too.
[03:23] <tuhl> infinity:  daq4th is our expert on porting questions
[03:23] <tuhl> he joined the channel
[03:23] <daq4th> ;-)
[03:24] <infinity> tuhl / daq4th : Kay, cool.  But I'm heading to bed right about now. :)  So, we'll have to catch up later.
[03:24] <infinity> (I live in Australia... It's 1:30am)
[03:24] <tuhl> ok
[03:24] <tuhl> we can talk tomorrow
[03:25] <daq4th> tomorrow which TZ? ;-)
[03:25] <fabbione> oh btw
[03:26] <fabbione> tuhl, infinity, daq4th: i think the best forum to talk about porting would be #ubuntu-ports
[03:26] <fabbione> since there other unofficial ports around
[03:26] <tuhl> fabbione: ok
[03:26] <fabbione> and that's where coordination should be done imho
[03:28] <daq4th> loosing a little bit the overview on channels ... maybe we need #u-server-ports as well? ;-)
[03:28] <fabbione> daq4th: ehhehe
[03:28] <fabbione> nah-- you can't just port only -server :)
[03:28] <fabbione> it's much easier to just port
[03:31] <ubijtsa> zUbuntu eh? the distro is getting about a bit.. :)
[03:39] <tuhl> what are you planning for getting officially certified hardware for ubuntu-server
[03:39] <fabbione> tuhl: yes
[03:39] <fabbione> we do plan it
[03:39] <fabbione> i am not in charge of that specific task
[03:39] <tuhl> how will that work?
[03:39] <fabbione> there is a spec on the wiki
[03:40] <tuhl> I have followed the complicated process for getting hardware certifications in  RedHat land
[03:42] <tuhl> the intersting thing would be whether we can do the certification of zSeries :-)
[03:42] <tuhl> teh money is no problem
[03:43] <tuhl> machine access is given to z900 and z990
[03:43] <spike> "money is no problem" ehehe, can something sound any better ehehe
[03:43] <fabbione> eheh
[03:44] <fabbione> daq4th: i think the hw certification won't be a problem
[03:44] <fabbione> (perhaps you can tell tuhl)
[03:44] <fabbione> but that's really dependent on how good is your port
[03:55] <daq4th> fabbione: yes, but the variety is not so big in z-land ...
[04:01] <fabbione> daq4th: i know, but the port still needs to be good enough to be certified :)
[04:08] <neuralis> fabbione: at present, we're only certifying hardware which can be delivered to the certification facility
[04:09] <neuralis> fabbione: for hardware that can't, we might consider having the vendor fly out someone from the certification facility who can do the work on-site, i suppose
[04:11] <fabbione> neuralis: ok
[04:29] <infinity> neuralis: We may need to make exceptions for zSeries, since it's cheaper to fly people than s/390 hardware in many cases. :)
[04:29] <fabbione> infinity: weren't you supposed to be asleep? or your gf did kick you out of the bed :)
[04:30] <infinity> Restless.
[04:30] <infinity> I may go back to bed in a bit.
[05:12] <neuralis> infinity: yeah, i'm cool with that for special cases
[07:17] <Norm> if i deploy a handful of ubuntu-server installations, is there a method to centrally manage updates?
[07:33] <spike> Norm: that's currently discussed and will be included in dapper
[07:33] <Norm> interesting... is it on the wiki anywhere?
[07:33] <spike> Norm: I'll post and update the relevant pages soon I hope
[07:33] <Norm> oh okay thanks
[07:33] <spike> yep, but to me they got it wrong :)
[07:33] <spike> unfortunatly I'm busy with work, so can't do that now, though I definitely should :/
[07:34] <Norm> gotcha
[07:34] <spike> thing is, they're gonna reimplement an ubuntu-specific solution
[07:34] <spike> which is good, but already existing ones are out, and they work *very* good
[07:35] <spike> so no point in reinventing the wheel. they might have considered that and decided to go that way anyway, no idea, havent spoken to them yet
[07:35] <Norm> ok
[07:36] <spike> Norm: in any case, the page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkWideUpdates
[07:37] <spike> which might be even a misleading name for what they say in that page, which is rather centralized administration, that incidentally involves updates
[09:57] <_david> could tinydns, qmail be a part of the ubuntu server?
[09:57] <maswan> _david: probably not, since they are not free software
[09:59] <_david> it is free software but you can't mess around with it, changing the code
[10:00] <_david> to bad
[10:00] <ubijtsa2> _david: nothing prevents you from installing them after you have installed your box
[10:01] <_david> would have been nice to use .debs. I have two debian servers running them and they are working great
[10:01] <ubijtsa2> they might not be in the official repositories, but you could set your own up easily enough
[10:03] <maswan> _david: most of us consider the right to change the code to be a part of the concept "free software"
[10:05] <ubijtsa2> who is the author of qmail again?
[10:05] <spike> most of us also consider djb the most egocentric man on this planet ;)
[10:06] <ubijtsa2> djb - the plonker that teaches at some uni in the states?
[10:06] <spike> ubijtsa: d.j. bernstein
[10:06] <ubijtsa2> yeah, I've had a pop at him, and one or two of his students before now
[10:07] <spike> ubijtsa: the man whose disclosure policy is "right now"
[10:07] <ubijtsa2> when they were posting secutity exploits to bugtraq without notifying the authors first
[10:07] <ubijtsa2> spike: that is him alright
[10:08] <spike> yep, that incident went around the world...
[10:08] <ubijtsa2> claiming there was a "remote root exploit" in nasm... my arse..
[10:09] <ubijtsa2> I think half of bugtraq ignored him, and the other half had a pop..
[10:10] <_david> anyway his qmail and tinydns are great
[10:10] <spike> well, he's smart, and his sw is indeed good, its security record is impressive, that must be said. but that doesnt give him the right to behave so
[10:10] <spike> _david: eheeh was saying that :)
[10:11] <ubijtsa2> I didn't realise qmail's licence ment you could look at the source but not modify it, sound more like Microsofts Shared Source bollox than OSS
[10:11] <spike> ubijtsa: that's nothing... go googling why it is so...
[10:12] <ubijtsa2> can't be bothered. postfix works.. ;)
[10:12] <spike> at least microsoft did it for money, not for an incommensurable ego...
[10:13] <spike> eheh, indeed
[10:13] <ubijtsa2> sounds like putting djb and Theo in the same room might be an interesting social experiment
[10:14] <spike> ehehe, that's been proposed quite a few times :P
[10:14] <ubijtsa2> I've had the dubious pleasure of exchanging emails with Theo... Getting more than monosyllables out of him is like drawing blood from a stone
[10:15] <spike> ahaha
[10:17] <ubijtsa2> http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/184  <- *lol*
[10:19] <_david> who is theo?
[10:19] <ubijtsa2> _david: Theo de Raadt
[10:19] <ubijtsa2> the OpenBSD head honcho
[10:19] <_david> ahh
[10:20] <ubijtsa2> some people in the IT industry are known by just their first name.. Theo and Linus are two of them
[10:20] <ubijtsa2> then you get people like rms, esr and djb
[10:22] <spike> ers :P
[10:23] <ubijtsa2> esr - Eric S. Raymond
[10:23] <ubijtsa2> of fetchmail fame amongst other things iirc
[10:23] <spike> lol, we werent thinking of the same person :)
[10:23] <ubijtsa2> :)
[10:24] <spike> well cathedral & the bazaar is prob what he's most famous for
[10:24] <spike> don't think many knows he wrote fetchmail
[10:24] <spike> well, if they havent read C&B :)
[10:24] <ubijtsa2> yeah, and heading up the Open Source camp
[10:25] <ubijtsa2> rms is a different cup of tea.. :)
[10:25] <ubijtsa2> i've heard he is "an _interesting_ character"
[11:05] <ubijtsa2> bedtime
[11:48] <JulienH> Hi all :)
[11:56] <spike> 'lo JulienH


[10:25] <pilva> hey, how can I run 2 gunicorn projects with upstart?
[15:24] <pilva> hey, how can I run 2 gunicorn projects with upstart?


[03:22] <Guest11359> smoser: When I get my filesystem all set up, where do I write the fstab file?
[03:23] <basicer> ie where does state['fstab'] point ?
[11:11] <jtv> gmb: as mentioned on the call yesterday, I've been continuing the cleanup on the import code.
[11:11] <jtv> Or did I mention it the day before?  One forgets.
[11:11] <jtv> Anyway, I have a branch in the works that may clarify a few things that you've been figuring out.
[11:24] <melmoth> hmm, with trusty, i try to perform the same sort of install i used to do before... I can bootstrap all right, but deployn a simple charm such as mysql fail. no machine is being picked up
[11:24] <melmoth> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7329138/
[11:30] <jtv> melmoth: looks like it's more of a juju problem than a maas problem.  It _may_ turn out to be a maas problem, but you may be best off asking in #juju about finding the errors' root cause.
[11:30] <melmoth> hmmm, i wonder if it s a good idea to say "local:precise/mysql" when i m using default trusty
[11:31] <melmoth> i ll try to deploy stuff drom local:trusty/ and ask on #juju if it still fail.
[11:31] <jtv> Ah, I hadn't noticed the "precise."  :)
[11:36] <jtv> allenap, could you help me debug a problem building in the daily PPA?
[11:36] <jtv> I requested a daily/trusty build, and it failed to upload because a package with the same version but different contents was already in  the PPA.
[11:37] <jtv> This has happened before, but I don't recall why.  The revision should contain the current revision of the packaging branch, right?
[11:37] <jtv> Correction: The *version* should contain the current revision of the packaging branch, right?
[11:39] <jtv> Hmm... it built from packaging r272, but my packaging branch had landed as r273.  Is this an 1.5/1.6 problem?
[11:53] <rvba> allenap: you might want to have a look at the comment I added on bug 1305102 https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1305102/comments/5
[11:56] <jtv> rvba: maybe you have any ideas about ^ ?
[11:57] <jtv> I got an upload error from the daily trusty PPA.
[11:57] <rvba> looking…
[11:57] <jtv> Maybe I should just try again, but I don't want to exhaust my daily attempts.  :)
[11:57] <rvba> jtv: did you use a recipe to build the package?
[11:58] <rvba> jtv: maas-maintainers/+recipe/maas-daily-trusty build the *1.5* branch?
[11:58] <rvba> (i.e. not trunk)
[11:58] <rvba> s/branch?/branch!/
[11:58] <jtv> Ah!  That's the recipe I used.
[11:58] <jtv> And yet, not the branch I've been working on.
[11:58] <rvba> That's you problem then.
[11:58] <rvba> your*
[11:59] <rvba> I suggest you create a recipe to build a package from trunk and put it in the experimental PPA.
[11:59] <jtv> Yes, that sounds like a good idea.
[11:59] <jtv> Also, shouldn't the daily/trusty recipe build from a trusty packaging branch?
[12:00] <rvba> jtv: that's what it does
[12:00] <jtv> Then why the different package contents..?
[12:01] <jtv> It said a package with the same version but different contents was already in the PPA.
[12:02] <rvba> jtv: I don't know.  Looks like it should be exactly the same content.
[12:03] <jtv> Could be a transient clash as version numbers sync up again after the fork, I suppose.
[12:04] <allenap> jtv: I’m glad that rvba’s here, because I don’t have a clue. DDs went in only as far as needed, and were promptly ejected from braincore at the end of that project.
[12:05] <rvba> \o allenap
[12:05] <allenap> o/ rvba
[12:06] <allenap> rvba: I guess we should check the permissions on the parent directory.
[12:06] <jtv> Hi allenap
[12:06] <allenap> re. dhcpd lease rotating.
[12:06] <rvba> allenap: yes
[12:06] <allenap> Eyup jtv.
[12:07] <rvba> allenap: paste.ubuntu.com/7329355/
[12:07] <rvba> allenap: I /think/ the dhcp.leases~ is the old, "rotated", file.
[12:08] <allenap> rvba: Not sure how that’s being rotated by a process running as dhcpd.
[12:08] <allenap> rvba: ls -d /var/lib/maas/dhcp
[12:08] <allenap> rvba: ls -ld /var/lib/maas/dhcp
[12:08] <rvba> allenap:  sudo ls -ld /var/lib/maas/dhcp
[12:08] <rvba> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Apr 25 09:08 /var/lib/maas/dhcp
[12:09] <jtv> allenap, bigjools, gmb, rvba: we have a new recipe: "maas-daily-trunk," against the experimental-builds PPA.
[12:12] <allenap> rvba: It looks like /var/lib/maas/dhcp should be owned by dhcpd.
[12:12] <rvba> allenap: I seem to remember there is a catch somewhere about that…
[12:13] <rvba> I can't remember what it was though.
[12:17] <allenap> Hush :)
[12:17] <jtv> allenap, rvba: IIRC we had a changeover, in Precise, from "it has to be owned by root" to "it has to be owned by dhcpd," or vice versa.
[12:18] <rvba> jtv: Yes, that was it.
[12:21] <jtv> Oh by the way, the import code has a bunch of check_call()s... should those be call_and_check()s?
[12:24] <jtv> And speaking of which, large imports cleanup up for review: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/maas/split-out-repowriter/+merge/217209
[14:00] <jtv> allenap: are you still working on that speedup for the leases parser?  I was quite looking forward to that.
[14:01] <jtv> It's probably too much to hope that we could just call into ISC's compiled parser...
[14:05] <allenap> jtv: https://code.launchpad.net/~allenap/maas/dhcp-leases-parsing/+merge/215112 is the code. I’m not sure what I’ve got left to do. There are tests, it looks cleanish, but something probably held my hand.


[10:12] -queuebot:#lubuntu-devel- Builds: Lubuntu Desktop amd64 [Groovy Final] (20201020) has been added


[08:11] <MCR> Launchpad should also add a compliments tracker ;) - By just having the possibility to file bug reports, there is no place to honor achievements and advancements that have been made in the same projects, which just get new bug reports filed against...
[08:12] <MCR> I want to note here: 8-) :-D Great job on Compiz 0.9.8-1+bzr3279-staging1-201207091053~quantal1 :-D 8-)
[08:15] <MCR> It runs that fast and fluid on gallium here, no one would believe that it is NOT fglrx running...
[08:36] <seb128> MCR, kudos to smspillaz and duflu for their work ;-)
[08:43] <MCR> seb128: duflu ?
[08:44] <seb128> MCR, Daniel Van Vugt's IRC nickname
[08:45] <MCR> seb128: oh then, ofc I agree :) -> Daniel's work is GREAT
[08:45] <seb128> ;-)
[08:49] <Mirv> Trevinho: what'd be the status of http://pad.lv/991926 regarding 5.x branch, considering the wish the get the SRU out this week?
[08:57] <MCR> Is it a design decision to not have the Dash use overlay scrollbars or is it a bug here ?
[09:06] <Mirv> Trevinho: in the same vein, bug 999171 claims that 5.0 branch has fix committed, but I don't find it. would require a merge request?
[09:08] <Mirv> Trevinho: forget the latter, that's in but without a bug number so no problem
[09:18] <MCR> Does anyone know who feels responsible for packaging and releasing the AMD fglrx driver Ubuntu version ?
[09:24] <seb128> MCR, tseliot on #ubuntu-devel
[09:24] <seb128> MCR, he's not online atm though
[09:24] <seb128> MCR, why?
[09:24] <MCR> It is currently quite outdated already (most recent version in Quantal:8.960-0ubuntu5), but AMD already has released 12.6 (8.980)
[09:25] <MCR> There are also preview versions (press releases) of 8.99.2 and 9.0.0, see http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_hd7950_evolve&num=1
[09:25] <seb128> not sure, maybe there was issues with the new version, best to ask him when he's online
[09:25] <seb128> or open a bug to request the update
[09:26] <MCR> seb128: Thanks for the info. Any idea which package I should file the bug report against ?
[09:27] <seb128> fglrx-installer?
[09:27] <MCR> fglrx-installer does not have a bug tracker afaik
[09:27] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer
[09:27] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+filebug
[09:27] <seb128> MCR, you mean?
[09:29] <MCR> seb128: Thanks, I was just confused because of all the red Xs... I will file a report then... :)
[09:33] <MCR> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/1022898
[09:34] <seb128> MCR, thanks
[09:38] <MCR> seb128: You are welcome and I thank you ;) - Once I got fglrx also running here, I will have to anchor my desktop on my table, because otherwise I think it'll fly away ;)
[09:39] <seb128> lol
[09:46] <MCR> didrocks, will we see Unity 6.0 today ? :)
[09:46] <didrocks> MCR: it's building in -proposed
[09:47] <MCR> oh, good news. - but I still fear proposed, so I'll wait ;)
[09:48] <didrocks> heh :)
[09:52] <greyback> didrocks: hey, sil2100 is on holidays, no? Will Unity2D be broken unless lp:~sil2100/unity-2d/bump_new_nux_libunity is merged?
[09:52] <didrocks> greyback: yeah, he's on holidays
[09:52] <didrocks> greyback: he didn't wait on your merge and didn't want to take trunk
[09:52] <didrocks> so we divert the packaging
[09:52] <didrocks> which is a hell for me to deal with unfortunately :/
[09:52] <didrocks> once it's release, yeah, please got those merged
[09:55] <greyback> didrocks: ok
[09:55] <didrocks> greyback: btw, did you get any progress on the google's issue?
[09:58] <greyback> didrocks: none. Something strange is going on with the dbus messages, but I simply cannot figure out why
[09:59] <greyback> didrocks: I hope to attack it again during this week. Then if I have no luck I'll need to ask for help
[09:59] <didrocks> greyback: keep me posted please :)
[10:00] <greyback> didrocks: will do
[10:01] <MCR> unityshell.cpp has 2 obvious mistakes btw in line 331 and 339: ubus_manager_.RegisterInterest(UBUS_LAUNCHER_START_KEY_SWTICHER,
[10:02] <MCR> line 339:  ubus_manager_.RegisterInterest(UBUS_LAUNCHER_END_KEY_SWTICHER,
[10:02] <MCR> SWTICHER instead of SWITCHER
[10:08] <seb128> MCR, you made a merge request for that yesterday right?
[10:08] <MCR> yep
[10:10] <seb128> MCR, I'm sure somebody will review it soon ;-)
[11:58] <Mirv> my Unity SRU PPA is at https://launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/+archive/prerelease-unity514-sru (not yet build)
[11:59] <Mirv> I suspect though that we are waiting for at least https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-987955-5.0/+merge/113274 and https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/5.0series-sru-software-center-integration-fixes/+merge/110214
[12:25] <seb128> Mirv, hey, great to see work starting on the SRU, do you want people to test that ppa then?
[12:45] <Mirv> seb128: sure it would be useful for people to run the Unity from that PPA, even if it wouldn't be final
[12:46] <seb128> Mirv, ok, thanks, looking forward seeing that SRU uploaded ;-)
[12:46] <didrocks> Mirv: hum, you remember about the unity SRU ppa, right?
[12:46] <Mirv> seb128: me too ;)
[12:46] <seb128> Mirv, do you already have a list of bugs fixed by the update somewhere if I want to see if I can confirm the fixes etc?
[12:46] <didrocks> Mirv: which is built automatically for you from 5.0
[12:46] <didrocks> maybe it's easier to just use it?
[12:47] <Mirv> didrocks: yes https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/sru - maybe so, the packaging only has changelog entry changes compared to that
[12:47] <Mirv> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/109744281/unity_5.12%2Bbzr2384-0ubuntu1~test1_source.changes
[12:48] <seb128> Mirv, thanks
[12:48] <didrocks> Mirv: so use that ppa for testing rather, the packaging changelog change can be done separately, without having to spend time upload/building a new one :)
[12:48] <Mirv> didrocks: okay, sure
[12:49] <Mirv> so, folks, test https://launchpad.net/~unity-team/+archive/sru instead :)
[12:57] <c10ud> there's a bug in unity, nautilus maximized+thumbnailer
[12:58] <c10ud> the unity bar disappears (!)
[13:05] <jaytaoko1> popey: didrocks: thanks for the release!
[13:05] <jaytaoko1> popey: extend my thanks to sil2100
[13:06] <popey> will do, thanks
[13:06] <didrocks> jaytaoko1: yw :)
[13:44] <andyrock> om26er_, ping
[13:47] <om26er_> andyrock, hey
[13:47] <andyrock> om26er_, can you reproce this bug? 974510
[13:47] <andyrock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/974510
[13:47] <om26er_> bug 974510
[13:48] <om26er_> andyrock, that seems fixed with trunk
[13:48] <om26er_> I can't reproduce it here but it does happen in 12.04
[13:48] <andyrock> cool :)
[13:49] <andyrock> i have 12.04
[13:49] <andyrock> with unity 5.0
[13:49] <andyrock> let's say SRU-1
[13:49] <om26er_> the something might have fixed it
[13:51] <andyrock> om26er_, invalid or fix released?
[13:52] <andyrock> or committed?
[13:52] <om26er_> andyrock, fix committed would be cool then later fixed
[13:52] <andyrock> ok thank you
[13:52] <om26er_> welcome.
[14:01] <didrocks> Trevinho: hey, my sublimetext editor is still not matched by the launcher, even with latest bamf/unity
[14:03] <seb128> didrocks, emacs, use emacs!
[14:03] <seb128> ;-)
[14:04] <didrocks> tssss :p I'll switch back to vim rather!
[14:04] <didrocks> :)
[14:08] <popey> \o/ gvim
[14:11] <seb128> Mirv, popey: btw is there any way one of you could verify the 3 bugs from the current compiz SRU which are still verification-needed?
[14:12] <popey> seb128, do you have the bug numbers to hand?
[14:12] <seb128> popey,
[14:12] <seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[14:12] <popey> ta
[14:12] <seb128> popey, look for compiz in the precise section
[14:12] <seb128> the ones which are not green
[14:12] <seb128> popey, thanks
[14:13] <seb128> popey, if those are bugs hard to verify like random segfault just attesting there is no regression is good enough
[14:13] <popey> seb128, yeah, I always worry about those types.. no real way to verify :S
[14:13] <seb128> popey, well, if it doesn't fix the issue but doesn't create new ones it's still good to go
[14:14] <seb128> i.e no reason to block the SRU on those
[14:14] <popey> right
[14:24] <popey> seb128, will look at in just a mo, my precise box is a bit messed up, booting a clean one :)
[14:28] <seb128> popey, ok
[14:40] <popey> seb128, Mirv for bug 993608, I'm doing a bzr branch lp:compiz-wall-plugin, cd compiz-wall-plugin, mkdir build, cd build, cmake ../
[14:40] <popey> is that sane?
[14:41] <popey> (the description isn't exactly clear on the steps to reproduce)
[14:42] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1084585/ is the result.. which isnt the same but still doesn't look good
[14:47] <seb128> popey, seems fine to me
[14:47] <seb128> popey, it's not an user facing change in any case so I'm not too concerned about it
[14:47] <popey> ok
[14:48] <popey> those 3 are done then seb128
[14:50] <seb128> popey, thanks! ;-)
[14:50] <popey> np
[16:06] <semitones> Are the icons in Unity-2D supposed to be moveable?
[16:10] <seb128> semitones, yes, but not on the side, just click on them for over a second
[16:10] <semitones> oh, awesome! I would not have figured that out :p
[16:11] <semitones> thanks
[16:13] <semitones> Also I've noticed it takes a lot longer to login to 2D over regular, even though 2D is then snappier... is that known?
[16:15] <seb128> semitones, it shouldn't be, check .xsession-errors in your user dir to see if anything timeout in your session
[16:16] <semitones> wow there are many errors...
[16:17] <semitones> can I pastebin it here?
[16:17] <seb128> semitones, no, the way pastebin is that you paste on the site and give the url
[16:17] <seb128> http://paste.ubuntu.com
[16:18] <semitones> haha, yeah I meant if I put it up here, would people have time to look at it
[16:18] <semitones> guess so :) thanks
[16:19] <seb128> well you can still post it here even if nobody has time then to look at it
[16:19] <seb128> what is sure is that if you don't post the url nobody will look at it ;-)
[16:20] <semitones> sorry, I was configuring pastebinit for the first time: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1084747/
[16:21] <seb128> no timeout in there, not sure what takes time
[16:21] <seb128> I guess you could bootchart your system
[16:22] <seb128> like install pybootchartgui bootchart, reboot, and look in /var/log/bootchart to the image generated
[16:22] <seb128> you will have timelines for what starts when
[16:22] <seb128> it should tell you what is slow
[16:24] <semitones> alright, I'll try that, thanks
[16:25] <semitones> so those metacity errors, and gnome-settings-daemon and ubuntu-2d-shell errors... are they fairly harmless?
[17:48] <seb128> popey, Mirv: bug #1019337 seems a regression from the current compiz SRU, can check with duflu when he's online or via email?
[18:02] <popey> seb128, yup
[18:04] <popey> seb128, done
[18:05] <seb128> popey, thanks
[18:08] <seb128> popey, to add to the fun you can run #ubuntu-release backlog
[18:09] <seb128> popey, they got it copied to -updates before the tracker updated to show the regression in red
[18:09] <popey> arf
[18:10] <shakaran> Hi, aparently I have a .xsession-error related to a packaged called checkbox-unity. I ask on ubuntu-bugs because It has a broken exec .desktop  http://pastebin.com/kUQawLye should I report a bug?
[18:12] <seb128> popey, I need to run but I will read backlog, can you make sure it's being actively tracked, regression in the LTS updates is not really something we should sit on...if there is anything for Didier or I to act on please drop an email
[18:12] <popey> seb128, hmm
[18:12] <popey> my guys are end of day..
[18:12] <seb128> popey, welcome to our world...
[18:12] <popey> :)
[18:58] <doctormon> What is nux? Is it just a clutter clone?


[00:23]  * ko_lo is back aliiive
[00:23] <ko_lo> I found a workaround without using upstart, but my brain want to know
[00:23] <ko_lo> :D
[00:25] <ko_lo> hallyn: I'm curious about your question about a fork of upstart, what is the current state ?
[00:44] <hallyn> unmaintained.
[00:44] <hallyn> the main point of forking would be to completely avoid any concerns with CLA
[00:45] <hallyn> but right now noone is maintaining upstart
[01:11]  * ko_lo try to google CLA
[01:12] <ko_lo> but isn't ubuntu pushing people to upstart?
[01:12] <ko_lo> or am I a bit late / not uptdodate
[01:21] <ko_lo> ok gotcha
[03:40] <hallyn> lol, yeah, a few years late :)
[03:40] <hallyn> anyway i'm *considering* maintaining it, but i hate the ptracing and am not so comfortable with the codebase...
[04:47] <ko_lo> I'm confused in the fight against systemd
[04:47] <ko_lo> there are people Hating it, and people loving it, and nobody in the middle


[08:35] <rvba> roaksoax: hi, sorry we've not been able to catch up lately.  Please ping me when you'll be available.
[13:48] <roaksoax> rvba: howdy!
[15:38] <jbalonso> Hi all. Can anyone here help me with understanding the custom commissioning script framework? http://askubuntu.com/q/346770 (I'm trying to catch the tail end of the UK workday this time).
[20:44] <kentb> I noticed that newer versions of Maas will pre-populate the IPMI power parameters with a maas username and random password.  Is that even usable?  I've been going in and changing those to a known-working username/password without trying the one maas gives me.


[13:38] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:47] <santa_> Hi BluesKaj
[13:47] <santa_> good afternoon everybody
[13:48] <santa_> RikMills: I would like to do some packaging fixes today, the first thing I would like to handle is kcmutils FTBFS
[13:48] <santa_> http://tritemio-groomlake.duckdns.org/build-status/buildstatus_ubuntu-exp3/ubuntu-exp3_status_frameworks.html
[13:49] <santa_> ↑ I'm not sure if it would fail in LP, however ...
[13:49] <santa_> do you mind if I disable the tests?
[13:50] <santa_> because it wasn't failing to build before so maybe it's a "flaky unit tests" case
[13:55] <BluesKaj> hi santa_
[14:25] <santa_> RikMills: ok, it fails on LP too https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-frameworks/+build/20893493
[14:40] <RikMills> santa_: ok. weird as it built fine in the archive the other day
[14:49] <santa_> RikMills: yeah, it started to happen very recently, "fix" pushed to git btw
[14:50] <santa_> (and tested sucessfully with LP build)
[18:07] <RikMills> santa_: https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team/kde/kcmutils/-/commit/d9c284ad87924cb4288bbbcb0ca0848fe4bfc4b6
[19:10] <santa_> RikMills: interesting, I will try that in a while, that seems like the real solution
[19:12] <RikMills> santa_: I did a direct copy to a ppa, and it seems to build ok: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3997/+sourcepub/12078539/+listing-archive-extra
[19:12] <RikMills> the debian upload did not update symbols (sigh) so pinging them on that
[19:14] <santa_> the symbols for debian and ubuntu might be different
[19:15] <RikMills> santa_: not according to their build logs
[19:15] <santa_> RikMills: ok, feel free to merge with debian
[19:16] <RikMills> ack


 Gnome Shell is already more reliable. Only a little slower
[07:45] <duflu> I used to spend my days finding all the Compiz but reports were actually Unity bugs
[07:45] <duflu> also bug reports
[07:45] <seb128> I disagree with that statement of being more reliable
[07:45] <seb128> also there is a lot of things less nice user experience wise or not behaving
[07:46] <duflu> At least it doesn't take me till 4pm every day to get through the bug mail. It did with Compiz/Unity
[07:46] <seb128> like the overview doesn't even display names without cutting them and making them impossible to read (I know you have a fix for that one, but it's still pending review/upstream deciding to do something)
[07:47] <duflu> seb128, yeah my fix for that was complete, but rejected waiting for someone who started earlier to finish their version instead
[07:47] <duflu> And they stopped responding
[07:47] <duflu> Although that might be old news...
[07:48] <seb128> we should have another try at getting it merged
[07:48] <seb128> but yeah, unity was doing a lot more
[07:48] <seb128> dealing with touch screens, gestures, multiscreen (especially in lightdm), keyboard typeahead in the expose, etc etc etc
[07:49] <jibel> seb128, bug 1799293 is what I showed you last week on my laptop. It doesn't have to have autologin enabled
[07:49] <seb128> anyway, ranting is not useful, moving back to triaging bugs
[07:49] <duflu> Yeah 5 months ago, my fix was rejected, but also the other developer who now owns the fix stopped responding
[07:49] <seb128> hey jibel
[07:49] <jibel> hi everyone
[07:49] <jibel> :)
[07:49] <duflu> Hi jibel
[07:50] <didrocks> good morning jibel
[07:50] <seb128> jibel, can you still reproduce? could you add your journal log after getting the issue? do you have any extension/did you try without those?
[07:50] <jibel> let me try
[07:52] <seb128> didrocks, you probably know, but the "preview of open windows" feature of dash to dock, is that coming direclty from shell or tweaked/having a local variant?
[07:52] <seb128> didrocks, asked differently, is bug #1768543 a launcher bug or a shell one?
[07:52] <duflu> seb128, updated https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/58
[07:52] <gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 58 in gnome-shell "WIP: Fix long application names being truncated" [1. Feature, 2. Needs Triage, 5. Icon Grid, Opened]
[07:52] <seb128> duflu, thx
[07:53] <jibel> seb128, I had to reboot, the machine was out of battery and it is not happening anymore
[07:53] <seb128> jibel, :(
[07:53] <seb128> jibel, you have persistant journal and can get the log from wednesday?
[07:54] <jibel> yes, it's what I'm lookgin for
[07:54] <seb128> or was it thursday?
[07:54] <seb128> thx
[07:54] <jibel> all of last week
[07:54] <didrocks> seb128: I'm pretty sure it's a feature from dash to dock, but let me read the bug
[07:55] <jibel> hmm, journalctl --list-boots returns "Failed to determine boots: No data available"
[07:55] <seb128> didrocks, thx
[07:55] <jibel> but the journal is there, weird
[07:56] <didrocks> seb128: if only we had those kinds of bugs to fix… :p
[07:56] <didrocks> let me just quickly look if the issue is in Yaru
[07:56] <seb128> didrocks, haha, true :p
[07:58] <didrocks> some positions in the Yaru css for the dock, but nothing for the close button
[07:58] <didrocks> just kicking a VM quickly with vanilla theme to check
[07:58] <duflu> seb128, good news, there are at least 3 fixes proposed and the chosen one has only been idle 1 month :)
[07:59] <seb128> duflu, for the overview/text cutting one?
[07:59] <duflu> Yeah
[07:59] <didrocks> seb128: reproduced with vanilla theme, confirming it's d2d specific
[07:59] <didrocks> maybe there is a css property to position it
[07:59] <didrocks> can check quickly while I'm at it
[07:59] <seb128> didrocks, k, thx, can you comment on the bug saying so? and sorry for wasting your time on a minor issue, I just wanted it triaged right :)
[07:59] <seb128> as you wish but don't feel like you have to bother
[08:00] <didrocks> seb128: no worry, while I'm at it, let's check if there is a 10 minutes fix
[08:05] <jibel> what's the command line way to know which extensions are enabled?
[08:05] <jibel> gnome extensions
[08:06] <Laney> oops
[08:06] <Laney> hi!
[08:07] <jibel> seb128, I attached the journal from last week.
[08:09] <didrocks> jibel: gdbus call --session --dest org.gnome.Shell --object-path /org/gnome/Shell --method org.gnome.Shell.Extensions.ListExtensions
[08:09] <didrocks> check all extensions that have state: 1.0
[08:10] <jibel> thx
[08:11] <seb128> jibel, thx
[08:12] <seb128> hey Laney!
[08:18] <jibel> seb128, there are stack traces that start on the 16th
[08:21] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[08:23] <Nafallo> morning
[08:23] <Nafallo> or... good day.
[08:24] <seb128> jibel, those logs are verbose, different errors, unsure which one it could be, probably one andyrock or Trevinho would have more clue about
[08:24] <seb128> "Object Shell.GenericContainer (0x55dbd4c15e10), has been already deallocated — impossible to access it. This might be caused by the object having been destroyed from C code using something such as destroy(), dispose(), or remove() vfuncs.
[08:24] <seb128> "
[08:24] <oSoMoN> good day Nafallo
[08:24] <Laney> hey seb128 jibel oSoMoN Nafallo
[08:24] <seb128> lut oSoMoN
[08:24] <seb128> hey Nafallo
[08:25] <Nafallo> how's thing in the new D? :-)
[08:25] <Nafallo> things
[08:25] <Laney> we are D-less
[08:26] <Nafallo> :-O
[08:27] <oSoMoN> hey Laney, seb128, jibel
[08:59] <duflu> Oops. Hi Laney, oSoMoN, Nafallo
[09:04] <oSoMoN> hey duflu, how goes?
[09:06] <duflu> oSoMoN, super busy with most of the week so far on bug mail and code review discussions. But progressing. You?
[09:08] <seb128> duflu, you should perhaps consider doing a but less bug triaging, or skip over non-interessing bugs. We need to be able to pick up issues out of the noise
[09:08] <seb128> ups, enter too early
[09:08] <seb128> but no point trying to fight the noise/triage every report
[09:09] <duflu> seb128, I can keep up, and at least this load only happens twice a year now
[09:09] <duflu> Looking at thousands of bug reports is how you find the patterns
[09:09] <seb128> you can keep up but it has an high cost
[09:10] <seb128> it costs you time that could be spent on fixing issues, or tackling other topics
[09:11] <duflu> I don't think it's a high cost. This spike only lasts a week or so after the release. It's not 365 days a year like compiz/unity used to be
[09:17] <duflu> seb128, btw Shell.GenericContainer no longer exists in gnome-shell 3.30.2+
[09:17] <seb128> context?
[09:17] <duflu> (scrolling up)
[09:18] <duflu> seb128, in the conversation with jibel
[09:18] <seb128> ah ok
[09:19] <seb128> so maybe that bug is fixed
[09:19] <seb128> we need to update to .2
[09:19] <duflu> It looks like they're going to release that big change in 3.30.2, which is weird. I would expect them to branch first and defer it to 3.32
[09:23] <duflu> seb128, this week is actually good news. I started with 3 Nvidia+Xorg bugs to investigate and so far only one of them looks valid
[09:24] <oSoMoN> duflu, I'm good, juggling between firefox, chromium, libreoffice and snapcraft
[10:02] <jbicha> duflu: I think they are deferring to 3.32. Arch Linux had enough issues with the git snapshot that they used an epoch to revert to gnome-shell 3.30.1
[10:03] <duflu> jbicha, yeah 3.30.2 seemed to break zoom and alt-tab, maybe other things
[10:04] <duflu> I thought it was a poor choice to re-architect things in a maintenance point release before the regressions were found
[10:04] <duflu> So the regressions were unsurprising
[10:12] <duflu> Is that what epochs are usually for?
[10:12] <duflu> I always wondereed
[10:17] <jbicha> in Debian/Ubuntu these days, we'd probably use something like 3.30.1+30+really3.30.1-1 to avoid the epoch bump
[10:20] <jbicha> epochs are an extra detail to remember when setting dependencies. You'd need to depend/break/whatever on gnome-shell >= 1:3.30 instead of the simpler >= 3.30
[10:20] <Laney> they break existing relations too
[10:21] <Laney> https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#epochs-should-be-used-sparingly
[10:28] <andyrock> jibel: which logs?
[10:36] <seb128> hey andyrock
[10:36] <andyrock> hey seb128
[10:37] <seb128> how are you today?
[10:38] <jibel> andyrock, in the journal attached to the bug report
[10:38] <andyrock> tbh I didn't sleep well :/ But nothing that a good coffee and a hot shower can't fix :D
[10:38] <andyrock> jibel: which bug? :D
[10:39] <jibel> I suppose bug 1799293
[10:39]  * andyrock should look in backlog
[10:39] <andyrock> let me take a look
[10:39] <jibel> andyrock, I had this problem last week but autologin was not enabled
[10:39] <jibel> andyrock, now I had to reboot and cannot reproduce it anymore
[10:40] <andyrock> mmm it can be the same issue Adam had during the release sprint
[10:41] <jibel> andyrock, what happens is 1rst press on super+l it locks the input but gnome-shell is still visible, second press it shows the lock scren
[10:42] <andyrock> before the second super+l the desktop is visible but you can't interact with it, isn't it?
[10:43] <jibel> andyrock, exactly
[10:49] <andyrock> jibel: so those warnings appear because something is tried to call a javascript callback (most likely tied to a "destroy" signal) during garbage collection. If gjs detects this it will avoid executing the javascript code and not crash the shell. Buuuut this can lead to an inconsistent state that could be the cause of the issue
[10:49] <andyrock> Trevinho: ^^^ what do you think?
[10:51] <andyrock> jibel: btw I need to take a better looks to logs. Do you remember more or less in which day the problem was happening?
[10:51] <jibel> andyrock, from tuesday onward until the system has been rebooted
[10:52] <andyrock> jibel: nice, I'll take a look later
[10:53] <jibel> andyrock, that's the part of the journal I attached to the report but it's rather difficult to read
[11:04] <jbicha> Laney: the icon theme should be Yaru in https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/tree/debian/settings.ini#n3 right?
[11:05] <Laney> jbicha: guess so, whatever ubuntu-settings says
[11:19] <Trevinho> andyrock: yeah, I was already on a fix for that
[11:20] <andyrock> Trevinho: nice :)
[11:20] <andyrock> next time remember to update the bug status :P
[11:20] <Trevinho> we also have a crash related to that I think
[11:20] <Trevinho> it's another bug
[11:20] <Trevinho> but apparently with similar cause
[11:23] <Trevinho> mh, no actually no... it's another js trace
[11:32] <Trevinho> seb128: can you make a new team updates thread? Or can I?
[12:03] <andyrock> Trevinho: bug number?
[12:08] <Trevinho> andyrock: can't find it now xD  it was from e.u.c crashing when calling get_theme_node
[12:08] <Trevinho> but there were similar shell container messages
[12:09] <Trevinho> we should probably tag those child better though
[12:10] <andyrock> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1796606 ?
[12:10] <andyrock> yeah would be nice to have the a tag with the javascript line where they were created
[12:45] <seb128> Trevinho, you mean on the hub? I can't, I'm not admin, but willcooke should be online in the afternoon you can ask him
[13:29] <xnox> seb128, i provided a long traceback, and was told "yeah that's enough" we didn't chat more about it; and restarting gnome-shell "fixed it" for me.
[13:29]  * xnox not sure if you got the reply for this =))) and not reading the scrollback.
[13:30] <xnox> seb128, re:deb-vs-snap /snap/bin is always *appended* to path, and thus snaps are always lower priority than debs. At least when called without an absolute name.
[13:30] <xnox> seb128, does gnome-system-monitor broken only for me, or everyone?
[13:31] <seb128> xnox, I didn't, thanks
[13:31] <seb128> xnox, just for you, did you provide the info I asked for on the bug?
[13:31] <xnox> seb128, let me check the bug =)
[13:38] <xnox> seb128, responded on the bug 1) deb now works 2) there are denies 3) pastebined denies & interfaces
[13:40] <willcooke> morning
[13:41] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[13:41] <andyrock> Trevinho: mind taking a look https://github.com/ubuntu/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/pull/151
[13:41] <gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 151 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator "interfaces: Explicitly convert raw data to strings" [Open]
[13:43] <seb128> hey willcooke
[13:43] <seb128> xnox, weird, I don't know :/
[13:43] <xnox> seb128, i guess is hould try to off-and-on-again by like reinstalling the snap?
[13:43] <seb128> jdstrand, kenvandine, do you have an idea about bug #1798996
[13:44] <seb128> the journal has
[13:44] <seb128> "audit: type=1400 audit(1540388224.625:95): apparmor="DENIED" operation="capable" profile="/usr/lib/snapd/snap-confine" pid=5645 comm="snap-confine" capability=19  capname="sys_ptrace""
[13:44] <seb128> xnox, I would try to get input from the snap people first, reinstall is not a solution it's a workaround
[13:45] <kenvandine> seb128: not sure, lets see what jdstrand says
[13:49] <Trevinho>  andyrock: ok
[13:49] <xnox> kenvandine, jdstrand - given it's me, i wonder if i have werid things mounted / setup on my system, which gnome-system-monitor tries to read, and fails. E.g. nvme hard drives, uefi partitions, lvm volumes, encrypted things
[14:03] <andyrock> Trevinho: also would be nice to sync the ubuntu branch with the master one
[14:03] <andyrock> Trevinho: if you prefer I can take care of it
[14:03] <andyrock> your call
[14:15] <seb128> andyrock, is https://bugs.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/1730211 different from the one you were looking at/talking to garnacho about before 3.30?
[14:26] <Trevinho> andyrock: yes, I also have other fixes that I wanted to land....
[14:26] <andyrock> seb128: that should be already fixed
[14:26] <andyrock> at least in cosmic
[14:27] <andyrock> seb128: so in Cosmic there is already a fix that allows you to type in the osk whatever key that can be entered with your current input layout
[14:29] <andyrock> seb128: my fix is to include also those letters that are showed in the osk but CANNOT be entered with your keyboard layout
[14:29] <andyrock> so capital letters should work because (at least in Cosmic)
[14:29] <andyrock> we need to cherry-pick that fix in Bionic
[14:30] <andyrock> seb128: do you want me to take a look?
[14:31] <seb128> andyrock, yes please, oem team wants to see it fixed
[14:31] <andyrock> seb128: I also pinged garnacho to take another look to my fix
[14:31] <andyrock> but no feedback 💔
[14:33] <andyrock> Trevinho: what's the status of gnome-shell in Bionic? are you planning to do an SRU already?
[14:36] <seb128> jdstrand, hey again, I reopened bug #1798091 since it still seems to be there with your update, your "owner /tmp/{,.}gnome_desktop_thumbnail.* w," rule doesn't seem to catch "/tmp/gnome-desktop-thumbnailer.png" which is what is used here (_ vs -, but also the .* at the end doesn't seem to catch "thumbnail*er.png*"
[14:40] <seb128> xnox, you get a "snap version" output info requested on that bug :)
[14:42] <xnox> seb128, done
[14:42] <andyrock> Trevinho: actually mutter SRU
[14:52] <seb128> bah, found a way to deadlock the shell :/
[14:53] <seb128> start in timed login (or auto login), you get a modal prompt at login for your keyring password
[14:53] <seb128> ignore that and hit the top right indicator and pick to shutdown
[14:54] <seb128> -> the shutdown button changes in a pause one and then the shell is stucked, even after dismissing the keyring dialog
[14:56] <Laney> /o\
[15:05] <seb128> jdstrand, I know you are probably busy this week/in SLC, but is bug #1794064 something you plan to own? (since you have a suggested way which could work)
[15:14] <ricotz> hey desktopers
[15:14] <seb128> hey ricotz
[15:14] <ricotz> Laney, hi, is 2.56.3-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> causing trouble in proposed?
[15:15] <ricotz> seems like a candidate for failing ppa build not being able to install libglib2.0-dev libgirepository1.0-dev
[15:15] <ricotz> seb128, hey
[15:16] <ricotz> Laney, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/394658919/buildlog_ubuntu-bionic-amd64.vala-git_0.43.0~git20181024.6c68de5e-0ubuntu1~18.04~valateam0_BUILDING.txt.gz
[15:22] <Laney> not that I know of, that can happen with skew on non-amd64 arches if the package fails to build or something
[15:22] <Laney> try in a chroot?
[15:22] <ricotz> updating my pbuilder chroots currently
[15:23] <ricotz> still pretty persistent https://launchpad.net/~vala-team/+archive/ubuntu/daily/+sourcepub/9501328/+listing-archive-extra
[15:27] <ricotz> ok, I blame launchpad ;)
[15:38] <seb128> kenvandine, could you look at bug #1778361 or get someone assigned to it? I don't think it's important enough to be rls tagged but still we should fix it, those snaps that are default should be at parity with their deb equivalent otherwise it's hurting our/the snap reputation
[15:40] <seb128> Trevinho, did you see my msg earlier?
[15:40] <seb128> about bug #1745888
[15:54] <kenvandine> seb128: looking
[16:05] <seb128> kenvandine, thx
[16:06] <kenvandine> seb128: it's interesting, if you tick "All Processes" it briefly shows other user processes
[16:06] <kenvandine> then the UI updates removing other users
[16:06] <kenvandine> feels like a bug, not a confinement issue
[16:06] <seb128> the journal has denial warnings though
[16:06] <kenvandine> yeah, ptrace right?
[16:07] <kenvandine> jdstrand suggested that might have been unrelated
[16:08] <seb128> kenvandine, "audit: type=1400 audit(1540397297.169:54174): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="snap.gnome-system-monitor.gnome-system-monitor" name="/proc/2280/wchan" pid=21148 comm="gnome-system-mo" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=1000 ouid=0"
[16:09] <seb128> but yeah, you are right, the UI seems to list the root ones for a second and then they go
[16:09] <kenvandine> so not blocked by apparmor
[16:09] <seb128> also after restarting the app I've all processes listed
[16:09] <seb128> the apparmor denial warnings are still noise that should be better off though
[16:11] <Trevinho> andyrock: as for sru, I wanted to wait an upstream point release. But seems not possible
[16:13] <andyrock> Trevinho: kk. I created https://trello.com/c/2hg9HKfq/111-backport-unable-to-type-capital-letters-using-onscreen-keyboard-to-bionic with the two commits that need to backported in cosmic
[16:13] <seb128> kenvandine, there are also denials about reading /var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/ .desktop entries, which is probably done to match the active apps to their icons/name and such
[16:13] <andyrock> *bionic sorry
[16:13] <kenvandine> seb128: yeah
[16:13] <Trevinho> andyrock: please link to the sru card.. There's a check list there
[16:14] <andyrock> Trevinho: we could also consider to include my fixes (not yet  included upstream because getting a review seems impossible)
[16:20] <andyrock> seb128: have you got a bug regarding the "dead-lock" thing?
[16:20] <andyrock> seb128: I can easily reproduce this
[16:20] <andyrock> so I can take a look
[16:25] <kenvandine> jdstrand: anything i can do to allow access to '@{PROC}/@{pid}/cgroup' and '@{PROC}/@{pid}/wchan' ?
[16:26] <kenvandine> not sure how important that is, but it generates a ton of noise
[16:30] <Laney> ricotz: if you turn off proposed it works
[16:30] <Laney> not sure why
[16:36] <seb128> andyrock, I don't, unsure if that's an important one though, it's not really a common scenario to see those dialogs and not dismiss them
[16:36] <ricotz> Laney, yeah, will do that, doesn't seem to be temporary problem
[16:37] <andyrock> seb128: I've been experiencing similar problems in the past
[16:37] <seb128> andyrock, I can open a bug if you want?
[16:37] <andyrock> seb128: I can do it np
[16:37] <seb128> thx
[16:41] <kenvandine> seb128: looks like a UI issue, regardless of which radio box you tick, it quickly reverts until you restart the APP
[16:41] <kenvandine> app... sorry for yelling :)
[16:41] <seb128> lol
[16:41] <seb128> yeah
[16:41] <Laney> 📣 *APP*
[16:41] <seb128> still worth debugging since it doesn't happen with the deb for some reason
[16:41] <seb128> could be racy behaviour
[16:42] <seb128> and the denial warnings would still be nice to fix, at least the .desktop ones could result in incorrect icon matching for active snaps
[16:42] <seb128> kenvandine, thx for responding/have a look! I hope SLC is still going well
[16:43] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:43] <kenvandine> it is
[16:43] <kenvandine> just really busy :)
[16:43] <kenvandine> but it is nice to have jdstrand in the same room :-D
[16:44] <kenvandine> seb128: of interest, in the snap when i tick any of those radio boxes i see this
[16:44] <kenvandine> Allocating size to gnome-system-monitor 0x26542c0 without calling gtk_widget_get_preferred_width/height(). How does the code know the size to allocate?
[16:44] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, got any word from mvo about xdg-open in core18 ?
[16:44] <kenvandine> not yet
[16:44] <kenvandine> haven't been able to track down mvo today
[16:45] <seb128> kenvandine, I see those warnings as well
[16:45] <seb128> so yeah, probably an upstream code bug
[16:45] <kenvandine> only in the snap though
[16:45] <kenvandine> i'm wondering if some signal isn't sent or caught
[16:45] <seb128> or maybe it tries to fetch some property or something that fails for some reason
[16:45] <kenvandine> the radio box does update though visually
[16:46] <kenvandine> maybe not getting gsettings signals?
[16:46] <seb128> could be, it's weird though, the view does refresh before resetting
[16:46] <seb128> it needs code debugging...
[16:46] <Laney> it is communicated to the UI by a gsettings change signal
[16:46] <Laney> so if that gets set and reset that would explain it
[16:47] <Laney> handy function to put a g_debug in there ;-)
[16:47] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:47] <kenvandine> just painful in a snap :)
[16:47] <kenvandine> need to rebuild the snap and iterate
[16:47] <Laney> or a gdb
[16:47] <Laney> (cb_show_whose_processes_changed)
[16:47]  * kenvandine guesses Laney has the code open :)
[16:49] <Laney> I actually made wallpaper out of it
[16:49] <Laney> it's in my bathroom
[16:50] <Laney> just wanted to see how it was communicated about
[16:51] <Laney> fun that there's a C++ part of g-s-m :-o
[16:52] <kenvandine> :)
[16:53]  * Laney finishes adventures in rebaseland for today
[17:02] <oSoMoN> calling it a day, have a good evening everyone!
[17:14] <Trevinho> wow, I didn't know lenovo was already in partnership with fwupd... Hugsie told me that he was about to sign some months ago, but I didn't notice this was reality :) https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/lm1s6e98/image.png
[17:14] <kenvandine> Trevinho: yay
[17:16] <xnox> whoop whoop
[17:19] <Trevinho> apparently it's there for a few months (according to reddit) and https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devicelist but I never looked at that gnome-software tab xD
[17:33] <seb128> Trevinho, you should have got notifications about it without having to go looking :-/
[17:33] <Trevinho> seb128: I got it in fact
[17:34] <Trevinho> seb128: but... I'm overwhelm of them, so not always I look at them
[17:35] <Trevinho> also looks like I forgot for months to have the `/boot/efi/EFI` path mounted, so, it wasn't working :D
[17:35] <Trevinho> fstab for the glory
[17:42] <Trevinho> praying... https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Hg6nFN1b/
[17:45] <willcooke> seb128, I tried this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/+bug/1789925
[17:46] <willcooke> but I'm still getting the old URL
[17:46] <willcooke> maybe I need to restart shell
[17:46] <willcooke> lemme try
[17:47] <willcooke> nope
[17:48] <willcooke> hrm, the package version says: 3.28.0-2ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[19:53] <jbicha> seb128: there was a comment at Debian bug 911161 complaining about the evince apparmor change but I don't know if he is using the proposed patch (didn't land in Debian) or reload his profile or what
[20:51] <seb128> jbicha, that comment is basically the same I wrote on launchpad
[20:52] <seb128> jdstrand is at a sprint this week, so unsure he has time to look at that, I'm might try to just SRU my suggested change tomorrow if he doesn't comment in between though
[20:52] <seb128> but for now calling it a day, see you tomorrow desktopers!


[00:15] <wgrant> cjwatson: My suspicion about the broken Maverick armel builds was correct. We've had some more show up and a LOSA confirmed that the queue record is missing.
[00:15] <wgrant> So I'm not completely insane.
[00:15] <ScottK> wgrant: Correction: That's not evidence of you being completely insane.
[00:16] <wgrant> True.
[04:01] <cody-somerville> Is there something wrong with hpijs-ppds in Maverick?
[09:16] <jml> cjwatson: the thing to create the branches was kicked off overnight. Once I finish interviewing this candidate I'll check on the status and get back to you.
[09:27] <doko> cjwatson: ok to promote llvm-2.8 (used by openjdk-6) and python3.2 (used by python3-stdlib-extensions)? new upstream versions
[09:28] <cjwatson> yep
[10:43] <apw> doko, ok the initial kernel is finialised and in the accept queue
[10:43] <apw> cjwatson, i've pushed the initial kernel for natty, i believe doko wants that built to bootstrap the toolchain
[10:48] <cjwatson> apw: looks like somebody beat me to accepting it :)
[10:51] <apw> cjwatson, :)  thanks anyway
[11:06] <doko> cjwatson: I did :-/
[11:06] <doko> I won't interfer anymore after the initial bootstrap
[11:09] <doko> security hits the buildds hard ...
[11:14] <cjwatson> I didn't consider it interfering
[11:23] <cjwatson> jml: ooh.  I spy a bunch of branches.
[11:23] <jml> cjwatson: yes. the script is still running[1] afaik
[11:24] <jml> [1] Where "running" means one of: actually running; stopping; waiting for someone to restart it
[12:02] <doko> apw: how long do the kernel builds usually take?
[12:06] <cjwatson> doko: are you still intending to upload python2.7?
[12:07] <doko> cjwatson: hmm, no
[12:10] <doko> cjwatson: so when the kernel headers are there, we could open natty
[12:13] <jml> cjwatson: the branching process is done. some branches failed. we'll look into it, but not as an issue of critical importance.
[12:16] <cjwatson> doko: last linux build was 2h on amd64, 15h on armel, 7h on i386, 4h45m on powerpc
[12:17] <cjwatson> jml: great, thanks - I think that's good enough to open with
[12:17] <cjwatson> doko: I'd like to run through at least one compiled package with the new linux, so that we won't get the situation where we open the floodgates and find that everything fails to build
[12:17] <jml> cjwatson: cool. let me know if there's anything else I can do to help.
[12:17] <cjwatson> *nod*
[12:18] <cjwatson> doko: (there are plenty of random merges in the queue we could use)
[12:18] <doko> cjwatson: yes, makes sense
[12:54] <doko> xvfb still broken, no jtreg test results for openjdk-6, but at least the build doesn't take that long
[13:15] <doko> again, firefox security uploads ... we'll never open this week with powerpc lagging that behind :-/
[13:17] <cjwatson> we'll still be ahead of historical schedule for opening, I think
[13:17] <cjwatson> depending on whether you count in calendar days or working days
[13:17] <cjwatson> (I think calendar days are slightly more realistic for this purpose since much of the time is spent waiting around for computers)
[13:28] <cjwatson> doko: I've scored up linux/powerpc, not that it will help hugely (UI says start in 7 hours)
[13:28] <cjwatson> actually, that will have it finishing around the same time as linux/armel finishes, so that might be OK
[14:25] <apw> doko, cjwatson the build will be about 6-7 hours total, armel is only one flavour right now
[14:26] <cjwatson> ah, so powerpc will be the last one after all then
[15:06] <apw> cjwatson, yeah i see, damnable security
[22:56] <doko> apw, cjwatson: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57569441/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-powerpc.linux_2.6.36-0.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz should we ignore this, or fix it before opening natty?
[22:57] <apw> doko, well its probabally an easy fix
[22:58] <doko> apw: ok, I'll be awake for about 30min, let me know if you could prepare another upload
[23:00] <apw> doko, i'll know shortly if its easy
[23:00] <doko> thanks


[00:07] <Unit193> gnome-user-guide and gnome-user-share also seem safe to remove, no needed rdepends (not sure about recommends.)  gnome-system-tools is needed by time-admin
[00:31] <bluesabre> in fact, the packaging should match this for dependencies: http://pastebin.com/2kKbiqqt
[00:31] <bluesabre> but I know the raring package doesn't
[00:31] <bluesabre> I fixed it in the stable ppa
[00:33] <knome> okay
[00:34] <bluesabre> I'm going to work on packaging so I can actually upload packages for r+1
[00:38] <knome> that's good
[00:48] <micahg> knome: it's too late to be playing with the seeds for non-critical reasons
[00:48] <knome> micahg, yeah, what i was thinking.
[00:49] <micahg> knome: poke me in early S and we can clean things up
[00:49] <knome> micahg, if some newish package changes brought us extra package though...
[00:49] <knome> will do :)
[00:49] <micahg> feel free to create WIs
[00:49] <micahg> unless it's breaking something at this point, since we jumped to 1GB ISO, let's let it be
[00:49] <knome> yep
[00:50] <micahg> skellat: I'm sorry, I saw the merge proposal and was hoping to have time to dig into why, it fell off my radar
[00:51] <skellat> It's all good
[11:01] <bluesabre> knome, should I tag catfish (ubuntu)?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1171705
[11:02] <knome> bluesabre, i don't know
[11:02] <bluesabre> knome, you're supposed to know everything :(
[11:02] <knome> haha
[11:02] <Unit193> I tried that earlier.
[11:02] <knome> no, i don't know about the tagging customs in LP
[11:03] <bluesabre> then I will ask micahg ^ :)
[11:03] <knome> yeah, better do that
[11:03] <knome> but i think it might even be up to you how you want it tagged
[11:03] <knome> or the "Catfish developers"
[11:05] <bluesabre> I already have it marked correctly in the PPA, so its definitely ubuntu package related
[11:06] <bluesabre> People are really afraid of zeitgeist
[11:07] <bluesabre> Do they realize that gtk has its own built in recent-files that gets populated, and its not per-application
[11:07] <bluesabre> or should I keep that secret?
[11:07] <bluesabre> >.>
[11:08] <knome> heh
[11:08] <Unit193> I'm personally not exactly fond of it, just another thing running in the background that doesn't offer me much.
[11:09] <bluesabre> yeah, I get that aspect and agree
[11:10] <Unit193> Also don't need yet another thing to track, pretty sure it does it more than GTK. :P
[11:13] <bluesabre> it does, zeitgeist can log events, but I think a program has to enable it for that program to do that.  zeitgeist has an off switch, whereas if a gtk app uses recent files at all, they are stored.  You can test it out, just create an app that uses recent files menu and don't add a scope
[11:14] <bluesabre> maybe I should make everyone paranoid
[11:14] <bluesabre> :)
[11:14] <elfy> yep - carry on :)
[11:15] <bluesabre> nah, I'll behave, gotta go get ready for work anyway
[11:15] <bluesabre> bbl
[11:18] <Unit193> -rw-r--r-- 1 unit193 unit193 51 Jan 23 01:13 ./.local/share/recently-used.xbel > /dev/null
[11:35] <bluesabre> ^ very paranoid person
[11:51] <Unit193> bluesabre: (I was actually kidding. :P )
[12:13] <bluesabre> :D
[12:13] <bluesabre> gotta go, seeya
[21:30] <Noskcaj> knome, When is the wiki, lp etc. going to be updated with me as head of testing? also, can you make me a release manager?
[21:31] <knome> 1) pointing you to our discussion last night; let's handle that after the release
[21:31] <knome> 2) too
[21:31] <knome> 1) no.
[21:32] <knome> i mean... why should you be the release manager?
[21:33] <Noskcaj> phill said i should be a RM, i don't even know what it means. and ok, i'll wait till after release
[21:33] <Noskcaj> i need to follow instructions less ;)
[21:34] <knome> no... i don't think it makes sense you would be the release manger
[21:34] <knome> *manager
[21:34] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:35] <knome> which instructions should you follow less?
[21:35] <Noskcaj> phill's
[21:38] <knome> well, you should realize he's not affiliated with xubuntu in any way, so you have to take his comments with a grain of salt
[21:41] <pleia2> it's also worth noting that we aren't particularly obsessed with titles here, in practice the project lead has tended to be the release manager, but folks in -release will listen/work with me too
[21:41] <knome> (or other long-
[21:42] <knome> ...term contributors)
[21:42]  * pleia2 nods
[21:42] <knome> also, for reference for others, i had a discussion with Noskcaj yesterday on the testing team generally
[21:43] <knome> since elfy is coming back and willing to help with testing too, i think it would make most sense if elfy and Noskcaj worked with testing together, elfy mentoring Noskcaj where needed
[21:43] <knome> (also asked elfy if that's ok for him, and he acked)
[21:44] <knome> i imagine this would be the best solution for all parties
[21:44] <pleia2> teams++
[21:45] <knome> i suppose that would also ultimately mean that elfy would be the (main) QA contact/lead
[21:45] <knome> (being the mentor)
[21:45] <Unit193> You spelled "Tormentor" wrong again.
[21:45] <bluesabre> every time
[21:45] <knome> but as pleia2 said, we're not obsessed with titles...
[21:45] <bluesabre> -.-
[21:46] <knome> but i don't want to rush to any decisions/nominations whatsoever before the election
[21:46] <knome> Unit193, hah.
[22:04] <Noskcaj> knome, ok
[22:08] <Noskcaj> in the installer, does anyone now what "Retrieving file 40 of 102" would be retrieving? it's always a huge download
[22:12] <knome> Noskcaj, have you looked what it says under "details" ?
[22:20] <Noskcaj> something to do with "CRON"


[10:44] <waveform> Maik, reported as LP: #1961047 with a proposed merge -- I'll try and get someone to review and merge that soon
[10:45] <waveform> argh, no bot -- here's a link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1961047
[11:22] <Maik> waveform: thanks :)
[11:23] <Maik> clicked affects me too


[09:09] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:13] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:05] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:09] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[10:10] <bigcalm> Hola
[10:27] <bigcalm> What's happening?
[10:35]  * MartijnVdS is playing with openvpn.. again
[10:38] <brobostigon> :)
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> also, Jurassic Park soundtrack
[10:52] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i found openvpn absolute hell to setup, took me almost two months to get it setup right, working on it every day.
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've done it before, and I have my own blogposts to guide me
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you might want to read them :)
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://blog.vandestreek.net/2013/09/bridging-internet-with-openvpn.html + http://openvpn.net/index.php/open-source/documentation/howto.html help me all the time
[10:53] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that i will have to do, and make copies for future reference, :)
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> (the howto especially for the easyrsa/RSA key bits)
[10:54] <brobostigon> than kyou,
[10:54] <brobostigon> :)
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: note that my setup creates a layer 2 ("ethernet") VPN, not a layer 3 ("IP") one
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so you mess with bridges instead of routing tables :)
[10:58] <MartijnVdS> (it makes some things easier (running both v4 and v6, for instance), other things harder (firewalling, possibly))
[11:00] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see,
[11:00] <brobostigon> agreed, having working ipv6 over it, would be good aswell.
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's not quite ethernet -- I don't think you can do 802.1q (VLANs) on it -- but you can just create multiple VPN connections (server/client pairs) if you need that
[11:04] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but things like DHCP work fine across it (in the router/tun setup you need to be smart about that)
[11:04] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, interesting, i can envisidge some uses for that.
[11:05] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool.
[11:58] <NET||abuse> there are 2 things that annoy me about the current nautilus setup.  1. typing a few characters immediately performs a search, rather than jumping to files in the current view with those characters in them.  2. and this is both nautilus and other apps(eg libre office) alt+f doesn't open the file menu....
[11:58] <NET||abuse> maybe that second one is more a unity "feature"
[11:58] <NET||abuse> alt+f opened the file menu in terminal though
[11:59] <NET||abuse> and the alt button being tied to a sort of quick comment menu, it's a bit annoying.
[12:03] <penguin42> NET||abuse: alt-f opens the file menu in libreoffice running under KDE
[12:08] <NET||abuse> penguin42: well :) KDE is it's own little torment :) It's so good yet, so not right for me to use.
[12:12] <ali1234> NET||abuse: you want Xfce, it does both the things you said
[12:19]  * penguin42 wonders how in G+ you modify a post to share with more people
[12:21] <MattJ> print it out, post it in a public place
[12:22] <penguin42> Well I didn't want it public!
[12:23] <Laney> i think you have to re-share it
[12:24] <penguin42> yeh looks like it, which is annoying given the circles I wanted to add overlap with the others and it means that the reshare won't have the comment trail
[12:50] <brobostigon> the net, ch4.
[12:51] <bigcalm> Knickers
[12:51] <bigcalm> Microwave packed up while cooking my lunch
[12:52] <bigcalm> Looks like Tesco will make an appearance in my life this afternoon
[12:52] <brobostigon> :(
[12:52] <brobostigon> 'pants', also works.
[12:53] <bigcalm> Pants will not cook my lunch
[12:53] <brobostigon> neither will knickers
[12:53] <bigcalm> Indeed
[12:54] <bigcalm> Anybody with microwave brand recommendations?
[13:02]  * penguin42 admits to not remembering what ours is - it's been going for 15 years though with only mechanical wear on one of the buttons
[13:27] <popey> I have never had a microwave pack up
[13:27] <popey> but then I've only ever owned one
[13:27] <popey> 13 years old
[13:29] <penguin42> ours has some wear on the stop button; it's basically a plastic moulding with a peg on the bottom that presses the conductive material, but the peg has warn down a bit
[13:31] <popey> the bulb on ours is gone, never really been that bothered to replace it
[13:34] <Myrtti> bigcalm: depends on what your budget is
[13:35] <Myrtti> bigcalm: we bought an ex-display Panasonic Inverter one from Comet some years ago, it has all the bells and whistles, it was expensive-ish but I've always wanted an inverter microwave
[13:37] <Myrtti> well worth the money we spent on it, might have been around 150 or so, not entirely sure to
[13:37] <Myrtti> tho
[13:37] <popey> inverter?
[13:39] <Myrtti> yeah, it regulates the amount of energy the magnetron blasts at the food instead of just having it blast full-blast for 30% of time when it's on 30% power setting
[13:40] <penguin42> ours is a Sharp
[13:40] <penguin42> Myrtti: Isn't that all the inverter is doing - just switching it quickly?
[13:41] <Myrtti> " In most ovens, the magnetron is driven by a linear transformer which can only feasibly be switched completely on or off. As such, the choice of power level does not affect the intensity of the microwave radiation; instead, the magnetron is turned on and off in duty cycles of several seconds at a time. Newer models have inverter power supplies which use pulse width modulation to provide effectively continuous heating at reduced power so that ...
[13:41] <Myrtti> ... foods are heated more evenly at a given power level and can be heated more quickly without being damaged by uneven heating."
[13:42] <Myrtti> excellent for defrosting or my second-best breakfast porridge
[13:42] <ali1234> there is nothing worse that when you try to microwave something and it just flubs all over the inside of the microwave
[13:42] <Myrtti> yup
[13:42] <Myrtti> and I used to do porridge a lot
[13:43] <penguin42> ali1234: It's amazing how stuff sticks to the roof....
[13:46] <Myrtti> but yeah, ours is a convection oven and a grill as well it actually gets a lot of use, easy to do fray bentos' and potatoes with
[15:05] <Myrtti> bigcalm: updates on what you ended up with, I'm interested :-P
[16:13] <daftykins> RIP file server 500GB OS HDD - your sudden death last night has rendered me unable to complete my mission of catching up on Breaking Bad until i can replace you
[16:15] <popey> oof
[16:16] <daftykins> not only did i lose the OS and lots of config, but everything i seed - like all the Linux distro images :(
[16:16] <daftykins> ~400GB worth
[16:22] <penguin42> ouch, and the RAID pair?
[16:28] <daftykins> ah my 6 disk RAID 5 is fine :> just inaccessible for now
[16:28] <daftykins> hahaha
[16:28] <daftykins> my controller's driver is on the dead disk too 8D
[16:28] <daftykins> oh what fun
[16:28] <daftykins> not a big deal of course, just kinda amusing
[16:29] <penguin42> so you've got a 6 disk RAID5 but not the OS?
[16:29] <daftykins> yep
[16:29] <daftykins> the array is pure storage
[16:29] <penguin42> so you're going to replace it with a RAID pair now - right?
[16:29] <daftykins> hehe
[16:30] <daftykins> not sure how i want it to be, ideally the OS and downloads drive should be physically separate this time but i don't really want to consume the extra power
[16:30] <daftykins> biab
[17:06] <daftykins> better start operating on this thing i guess
[17:34] <penguin42> daftykins: You can get some pretty small/cheap SSDs for OS these days
[17:35] <daftykins> indeedy, a cheap ~60GBer might suffice
[17:35] <daftykins> then a 1 or 2TB storage disk
[17:37] <popey> yeah, my server has a small SSD for root
[17:38] <penguin42> about #35 for the 60GB I used in my firewall
[17:47] <AlanBell> there is bcache now too, which means your SSD is a cache for the spinning rust
[17:48] <daftykins> hmm
[17:49] <AlanBell> so you could have something like a 20GB root partition, and 40GB of bcache, and the rest of the disks off most of the time
[17:49] <AlanBell> if you can spin down raid disks
[17:49] <daftykins> that induces wear and reduces their lifespan
[17:50] <AlanBell> depends how much time they spend not spinning
[17:50] <penguin42> thats very much a heauristic on how often
[17:51] <AlanBell> my server runs off an SD card most of the day, but accepts backups to the spinning drive in the evening, so that is mostly not spinning during the day
[17:51] <stgraber> I'm also not sure I'd want to have data and a cache on the same SSD, sounds like this would lead to a lot more write cycles than standard usage, leading to it failing much earlier than usual. Which is perfectly fine if that's all it does (since you can just swap it for a new one), but a bit more annoying if there are data you care about on it too.
[17:54] <daftykins> program/erase cycles really aren't that finite
[17:56] <penguin42> supposed to help if the drive is quite empty
[17:59] <daftykins> yeah, depends on the specific drive for how much overprovision it was made with afaik
[18:35] <daftykins> wow my dead disk just got detected
[18:36] <daftykins> maybe it lives enough to get the data off :O
[18:39]  * penguin42 keeps getting endorsed on linked in for Perl; my perl is really really shit
[18:41] <shauno> linkedin is pretty scammy for that sort of stuff.  it'll prompt people to endorse things, but make it look like it's a message coming from you
[18:43] <shauno> so you'll end up with all kinds of overinflated endorsements just because people like you too much to write the truth
[18:45] <ali1234> yeah i've been endorsed for mysql and project management on linkedin, two things i know almost nothing about
[18:45] <ali1234> oh and microsoft office
[18:47] <shauno> it seems highly counterproductive to me, because the only sensible outcome is that it'll end up devaluing legitimate feedback
[18:51] <daftykins> alrighty one dead disk removed
[18:51] <daftykins> best transplant it into my desktop to see what i can make of it =/
[19:02] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0qjflygolvtm40m/IMG_20130929_200117.jpg
[19:02] <daftykins> she be stalling
[19:03] <daftykins> ah no eventually got by
[19:05] <daftykins> nothing from fdisk from a LiveUSB
[19:07] <penguin42> has seen dieing drives that like to cool down - had one that I actually put in a fridge
[19:07] <daftykins> i almost began to think of trying :>
[19:07] <daftykins> it definitely was suffering thermally before the pop
[19:08] <daftykins> BIOS detects it and just now said "SMART capable but command failed"
[19:08] <daftykins> so i think the controller board might be kanck'd
[19:08] <daftykins> *knack'd
[19:09] <daftykins> if fdisk can't see it there's probably not much hope is there?
[19:19] <daftykins> i haven't got any zip lock bags to try the fridge :D
[19:35] <shauno> and those wee bags of silica gel too.  I'm always nervous about condensation doing that
[19:38] <daftykins> :)
[19:38] <daftykins> it definitely survives long enough to be detected when cold booting
[19:38] <daftykins> but it starts to flake out
[19:38] <daftykins> i forgot i have two spare laptop HDDs so i'm trying a clean install to one now
[19:48] <popey> I'd put it in a tupperware box with a small pile of instant coffee
[19:49] <daftykins> :D
[19:49] <daftykins> hmm i could temporarily use the bread box for that, that could work
[19:49] <daftykins> so then - just give it a few minutes?
[19:49] <popey> I'd look to get it below room temp
[19:49] <popey> so probably 30 mins
[19:50] <daftykins> sounds good :)
[19:50] <daftykins> for now i'm getting an OS on another disk so i can at least get to Breaking Bad D:
[19:50]  * popey hugs netflix ipad
[19:51] <daftykins> heh
[19:51] <daftykins> i don't like streaming content
[19:51] <popey> I tend to watch BrBa on a Monday lunchtime
[19:51] <daftykins> :>
[19:51] <popey> which means I need to be offline soon until then
[19:51] <popey> because americans will start posting spoilers
[19:52] <daftykins> *nod*
[19:52] <shauno> it can be annoying because my ipad doesn't have a remote.  but streaming's slightly more convenient than trying to duct-tape together the remains of a fileserver ;)
[19:52] <daftykins> i'll have to avoid a few channels
[19:52] <daftykins> hah - well it's just the OS disk that went
[19:52] <daftykins> and it's not like this happens often
[19:52] <daftykins> this system is from 2007
[19:52] <popey> annoying more than anything
[19:52] <daftykins> yeah
[19:53] <daftykins> i did have it freeze a couple of weekends in a row but couldn't pinpoint the issue
[19:53] <daftykins> i should've added a fan since the OS HDD was getting hot but - i lived and learnt
[19:54] <shauno> I'm waiting for the same thing to happen on mine.  hdd in my old appletv has started making fun noises.  but all the content's external
[19:54] <daftykins> hehe
[19:54] <shauno> it sounds like someone's repeatedly picking up, and placing (not dropping) a glass marble.  I figure that's a death sentence, but I'm too lazy to do anything about it yet
[19:54] <daftykins> i'm curious as to what this windows 7 install is going to do, it's been stalling majorly as it seems the disk was last used as GPT
[19:54] <shauno> especially since replacing the drive involves a spatula :/
[19:55] <daftykins> hehehe
[19:55] <daftykins> good opportunity to go solid state \o/
[19:55] <shauno> I'm not sure actually .. I have a funny feeling these are still p-ata
[19:56] <daftykins> that can be done
[19:57] <shauno> yeah. 2.5" ATA.  that'll be a pain to source
[19:58] <daftykins> :D
[19:58] <daftykins> i got a proprietary connector SSD for an old PATA Sony ultraportable for a client some time ago
[20:02] <popey> gah, must stop watching GTA V videos!
[20:02] <popey> Almost bought it for XBox yesterday
[20:03] <bigcalm> popey: I've only been watching the Hat Films 'Havin' a bash' vids of it. Most amusing
[20:03] <popey> yeah, me too
[20:03] <bigcalm> Looks like great fun
[20:05] <daftykins> popey: :D
[20:05] <daftykins> it's definitely good
[20:05] <daftykins> my talk of it finally persuaded a mate to buy it, albeit he got the PS3 version :(
[21:00] <bigcalm> Something silly, sweet dreams :) http://youtu.be/LwG-SAFWd-8?t=13m
[21:58] <daftykins> one RAID volume back accessible \o/
[21:58] <daftykins> albeit with a clean empty OS atop it
[21:59] <bigcalm> OSs come and go, user data is important
[22:01] <daftykins> yeah, lost all the Downloads drive contents though
[22:01] <daftykins> so i'm now seeding... nothing D:
[22:01] <daftykins> i'll have a go at retrieving it tomorrow maybe
[22:03] <bigcalm> Poop
[22:05] <daftykins> yip :(