[09:50] <Cimi> tsdgeos, hi, I am having some issues with my irc bouncer but I connected directly
[09:50] <Cimi> tsdgeos, still need a hand?
[09:51] <tsdgeos> Cimi: nope, figured it out what i needed, wasn't really what i thought i needed yesterevening
[09:51] <Cimi> ok
[09:51] <Cimi> cool
[10:01] <Saviq> greyback_, there's no need for commit messages when there's a changelog entry (takes precedence anyway)
[10:01] <greyback_> Saviq: ok
[10:14] <tsdgeos> Saviq: Cimi: if you guys have time https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/properRangesHorizontalCategories/+merge/246399
[10:15] <Cimi> tsdgeos, I have
[10:15] <tsdgeos> i'm not ultra happy about the growsVertically name, suggestions accepted
[10:35] <Cimi> tsdgeos, what will be your definition of growsVertically first?
[10:36] <tsdgeos> adding new cards makes the item grow vertically
[10:36] <tsdgeos> :D
[10:39] <Cimi> tsdgeos, or we can say those are "horizontal" oriented widgets?
[10:40] <tsdgeos> so you want to call it growsHorizontally :D
[10:44] <Cimi> tsdgeos, feels like more an orientation thing
[10:44] <Cimi> tsdgeos, but we don't have enums...
[12:03] <Cimi> Saviq, but isn't https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1410337 a scope bug?
[12:04] <Cimi> Saviq, cannot find the actions being set
[12:13] <Saviq> Cimi, we're not closing the preview
[12:13] <Saviq> Cimi, the preview gets "transferred" to the temp scope
[12:26] <Cimi> Saviq, we never close previews when we open an app
[12:27] <Cimi> Saviq, we do when we switch back to dash
[12:28] <Cimi> so the click scope runs an action, and we need to associate that action to the setCurrentScope function most likely
[12:29] <Cimi> but let me dig more, might be dashcommunicator responsible for that
[13:05] <Cimi> anyone experiencing issues building on the device with run_on_device?
[13:06] <Cimi> I have this dpkg-gencontrol: warning: can't parse dependency g++-4.9:nativ
[13:37] <tsdgeos> Cimi: yeah theres a branch
[13:37] <tsdgeos> Cimi: comment it out or use the branch
[13:39] <mterry> Saviq, is there an rtm silo for unity8 that will make it before the gates close?
[14:03] <mterry> Ah nm, I see we just landed one
[14:44] <tsdgeos> garg
[14:45] <tsdgeos> QQuickItemView::setCacheBuffer immediately calls relayout instead of forceLayoutPolish like QQuickItemView::setDisplayMarginBeginning and QQuickItemView::setDisplayMarginEnd do :/
[14:45] <tsdgeos> wonder if i can get a patch accepted to have the same behaviour
[14:49] <tsdgeos> but anyway i need a workaround for that in current code
[15:03] <mterry> kgunn, heyo!  How urgent is bug 1410830 (the split-off side of bug 1383277).  I ask because I think I have a band-aid fix that wouldn't address the root cause (which would still warrant investigation) but would likely stop the symptom.  I'm not sure how urgent stopping the symptom is, now that at least half of the problem is gone with the other bug's MP landing in RTM
[15:04]  * mterry is loathe to apply a band-aid for a problem we don't quite understand unless there's urgency
[15:04] <kgunn> mterry: it does have visibility
[15:04] <kgunn> it's worth it...and i think tvoss was wanting a band aid in order to continue to dbug why the heck the bus goes nuts sometimes on resume
[15:06] <mterry> kgunn, OK I can whip up an MP with appropriate caveats written all over it.  Especially since it's hard to reproduce and test.  But it *should* fix the symptom.  Meanwhile I can continue to try to reproduce reliably, which sounds like it would help tvoss too
[15:11] <kgunn> yeah, rick seems to be able to repro fairly easy mterry....
[15:11] <kgunn> well...at least it'll give him something to test against
[15:15] <mterry> kgunn, in bug 1409003, Rick said he couldn't reproduce anymore (since r190)
[15:16] <kgunn> ok, lemme check...i feel you  on the bandaid avoidance mterry
[15:17] <mterry> kgunn, for sure the bug is still happening, just hard to reproduce
[15:22] <kgunn> mterry: ok, conferred with rick & voss, they say land it
[15:22] <kgunn> mterry: thanks for the work
[15:22] <kgunn> mterry: how gnarly is the bandaid ?
[15:23] <mterry> kgunn, not gnarly.  Not even a technically incorrect thing to do, but clearly a band-aid.  I plan to just not start the 2s timer for the shutdown dialog as long as the screen is off
[15:24] <mterry> kgunn, it won't make the screen come on faster (remember, this version of the bug involves a delay on resume), but it will make the shutdown dialog not appear
[15:37] <mterry> kgunn, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity8/no-shutdown-dialog-while-suspended/+merge/246445
[15:37] <kgunn> thanks!
[16:25] <Saviq> Cimi, it's not an app, it's a link to a scope
[16:26] <Saviq> Cimi, so we need to make sure to close the preview when we open a temp scope is all
[16:26] <Cimi> Saviq, yeah
[16:26] <kgunn> mterry: so yeah, rick said he can still get it...got it a few times last night when out to dinner with wife
[16:26] <Cimi> Saviq, I was saying that opening apps we keep the dash on hold
[16:26] <kgunn> gonna load your mp in a silo to let rick test it
[16:26] <Saviq> Cimi, yes, but the bug is about opening a scope, not an app
[16:27] <mterry> kgunn, good!  sorta
[16:27] <Saviq> mterry, no more into rtm this week, no
[16:27] <kgunn> hehe...yeah...sad when you're happy about bugs actually existing....better than chasing a ghost
[16:27] <Saviq> we just released one, and I've another ready to test for as soon as the gates open again
[16:27] <mterry> Saviq, yeah I hadn't seen the one we released, and got nervous.  But I'm fine with the release we had
[16:28] <Saviq> mterry, right, the power thing is there
[16:33] <Saviq> mzanetti, any luck with the telephony service?
[16:34] <mzanetti> Saviq: well, it was crashing, tiago fixed, was waiting for the new build. will try again sortly
[16:35] <Saviq> mzanetti, ok, was just asking whether we got anywhere with the crash, really, glad
[16:35] <Saviq> tsdgeos, Cimi, bug #1410794 looks interesting ;)
[16:36] <tsdgeos> lol
[16:36] <Saviq> you can fight for who looks into it ;)
[16:36] <Saviq> tsdgeos, lol indeed
[16:36] <cwayne> i've seen that once, but could never reproduce it
[16:36] <tsdgeos> wonder if it's because of the ...
[16:36] <Saviq> couldbe
[16:40] <Saviq> tsdgeos, kudos for CI!
[16:40] <tsdgeos> well we're creating half of the items now
[16:40] <tsdgeos> must be faster ^_^
[16:40] <Cimi> tsdgeos, in case I spot it, I will tell you/assign myself
[16:43] <tsdgeos> Cimi: Saviq: i need you guys to try https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/properVRangesCurrentScope/+merge/246465 on the phone
[16:43] <tsdgeos> it looks good to me
[16:43] <Saviq> tsdgeos, will do
[16:43] <tsdgeos> but since i've coded i think i may be slef convincing myself
[16:43] <tsdgeos> it's always hard with those cache/lag things
[16:45] <Cimi> we should have two phones to compare :/
[16:48] <tsdgeos> still all this lag/cache things
[16:48] <tsdgeos> they're different each time i reboot the phone
[17:26] <Cimi> Saviq, does run_on_device log changes to dash into the same unity8-dash log file?
[17:26] <Saviq> Cimi, run_on_device doesn't run the correct dash
[17:26] <Saviq> Cimi, just go ./builddir/src/Dash/unity8-dash -mousetouch
[17:26] <Cimi> I see why all my changes to dash seem uneffective
[17:27] <Cimi> Saviq, from the device?
[17:27] <Saviq> Cimi, ah on device
[17:27] <Cimi> Saviq, I need to install click scopes
[17:27] <Cimi> yeah
[17:27] <Cimi> so I was running run_on_device with log for the functions called but nothing seems to be printed out
[17:27] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, it doesn't
[17:27] <Saviq> Cimi, ~/.cache/upstart/unity8-dash.log
[17:28] <Cimi> Saviq, I was looking at that
[17:28] <Saviq> Cimi, but that might still not be it
[17:28] <Saviq> Cimi, you can `restart unity8-dash BINARY=/path/to/your/unity8-dash`
[17:28]  * Cimi tries
[17:28] <Saviq> Cimi, run_on_device needs love, same as run, really...
[17:29] <Cimi> oh yeah...
[17:29] <Cimi> I was running system wide...
[17:30] <Cimi> restart unity8-dash BINARY=shell/builddir/src/Dash/unity8-dash works on device...
[17:30] <Cimi> I should add that to run_on_device...


[13:03] <mungkin734> what is the best secure os for 1GHz processor 2GB ram old laptop
[13:04] <mungkin734> what about Kali
[13:04] <mungkin734> is it possible to run Kali?
[13:09] <leszek> tails
[13:11] <krytarik> ##linux
[13:11] <mungkin734> what do you mean by that krytarik ?
[13:12] <mungkin734> I dont understand
[13:12] <mungkin734> tails?
[13:13] <mungkin734> I cannot talk in ##linux krytarik
[13:13] <hateball> !register | mungkin734
[13:14] <hateball> mungkin734: This channel is for Lubuntu support, not distro suggestions
[14:01] <paradis> == Cannot send to channel: ##linux
[14:47] <paradis> https://lubuntu.net/ or https://lubuntu.me/
[14:49] <krytarik> paradis: The channel topic confirms it's the latter.
[14:49] <paradis> but y do search engine says otherwise?
[14:50] <paradis> I mean by putting the earlier above
[14:50] <krytarik> Because it does find another instance too - but it's not the official one.
[14:59] <krytarik> And search rankings don't necessarily take into account what's official or not.
[15:15] <paradis> who is tsimonq2
[15:19] <tsimonq2> Lubuntu's Release Manager.
[15:23] <krytarik> Mooore!
[23:23] <Thedarkb-X40> "Set an application to open Symbolic Link files"
[23:23] <Thedarkb-X40> Bleh
[23:23] <Thedarkb-X40> Why's this happening?


 I didn't think so
[12:49] <jml> ddaa: bugs page
[12:49] <ddaa> good... sometime self-derision does not come across right
[12:49] <jml> although there doesn't seem to be a bug listing any more, just a bug search :\
[12:50] <ddaa> https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs
[12:50] <ddaa> no pie...
[12:50] <jml> https://bugs.beta.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/
[12:50] <Fujitsu> ddaa: Take out the +bugs
[12:51] <ddaa> that's where I go by clicking on the bugs tab...
[12:51] <jml> I'm not sure that it's possible to navigate to that page.
[12:51] <jml> oh.
[12:51] <ddaa> label positioning is broken
[12:51] <jml> nope
[12:52] <ddaa> here, the count of in progress ovelap with the work "committed"
[12:52] <ddaa> * the word
[12:52] <Fujitsu> ddaa: I saw a bug about that, I think.
[12:52] <ddaa> it's pretty, and useless... good
[12:53] <Fujitsu> That's all that matters, prettyness.
[12:53] <ddaa> I do not really understand the kicks people get from project stats...
[12:53] <Fujitsu> The Ubuntu one isn't pretty, though. It's outright depressing.
[12:54] <ddaa> mh
[12:54] <ddaa> okay... I think I understand better
[12:54] <Fujitsu> ?
[12:54] <ddaa> when you compares to two pie charts, is does say something
[12:54] <ddaa> nothing that each project does not already know about itself
[12:55] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[12:55] <Fujitsu> You do seem tolike doing that, ddaa.
[12:55] <Fujitsu> *to like
[12:55] <ddaa> I understand now
[12:55] <ddaa> I have that bug again
[12:55] <ddaa> where "ctrl-a" behaves like "ctrl-q"
[12:56] <Fujitsu> Sounds like fun.
[12:56] <ddaa> iz gtk bug
[12:56] <Fujitsu> You always quit, come back, have your connection reset, then come back again.
[12:57] <jml> oh wow. the fonts on the advanced search page are really tiny.
[01:00] <radix> hm
[01:00] <radix> so occasionally when I click on a bug link in beta I'm getting prompted by firefox about whether I want to download a bin file
[01:01] <radix> the name of the bin file being the bug number
[01:01] <Fujitsu> radix: I got that a few times a couple of days ago.
[01:01] <radix> generally cancelling it and clicking again works.
[01:01] <Fujitsu> I thought it was at my end.
[01:01] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[01:01] <radix> I guess something is randomly forgetting to set the Content-Type.
[01:01] <radix> by which I mean intermittently.
[01:02] <Fujitsu> Intermittent bugs. The best kind.
[01:02] <LarstiQ> radix: I had that a lot at the end of January
[01:05] <jml> ddaa: that has got to be frustrating.
[02:33] <khermans__> can someone explain to me the 'karma' feature?
[02:37] <jamesh> khermans__: does https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaCalculation amswer your questions?
[02:38] <khermans__> jam, better -- who has the highest karma?
[02:42] <jamesh> khermans__: I am not sure.  You can see the people with the most karma for individual products or distributions though
[02:53] <khermans__> who has the most karma for Ubuntu, and how is this determined
[03:03] <LaserJock> khermans__: https://beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors
[03:03] <LaserJock> khermans__: and it's determined on how much work and where you do it
[03:08] <jamesh> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors is the page he'd be able to actually view :)
[03:10] <LaserJock> oh darn, yeah
[03:13] <LaserJock> jamesh: oh, I was told you might know something about librarian
[03:13] <jamesh> LaserJock: spiv is the one who wrote most of the librarian, but I might be able to help
[03:13] <jamesh> what's the problem?
[03:14] <LaserJock> well, it's the each file get's it's own directory thing
[03:14] <LaserJock> it's difficult to get source packages off of LP
[03:14] <LaserJock> because normally all the files in a source package .dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz are in the same dir
[03:15] <LaserJock> so the tools we use to get them like dget won't work with LP
[03:15] <LaserJock> I was trying to think of a way to get around this problem, but I don't know how it all works obviosly
[03:16] <LaserJock> I could imagine maybe a file that had the URLs for the files
[03:16] <LaserJock> that could be parsed by a tool
[03:16] <jamesh> like the source package release page? :)
[03:16] <LaserJock> or some sort of fancy URL redirect
[03:17] <LaserJock> yeah, but that means screen scrapping, no?
[03:17] <jamesh> can't you use apt for this?
[03:17] <jamesh> or are you talking about old versions of packages?
[03:17] <LaserJock> both
[03:17] <LaserJock> people using Edgy who want to grab the Feisty package
[03:17] <LaserJock> or the other way around
[03:18] <LaserJock> or grabbing from -proposed
[03:18] <LaserJock> or whatever
[03:18] <LaserJock> we very often want to grab source packages that are not apt-getable
[03:18] <LaserJock> normally we use dget
[03:18] <LaserJock> you give it the .dsc and it automatically wget's the files that are referenced in it
[03:19] <jamesh> so you are always looking for the latest version for some repository though, right?
[03:19] <LaserJock> no
[03:19] <LaserJock> sometimes we are trying to figure out diffs between packages
[03:19] <LaserJock> they might not even be in the archives
[03:19] <LaserJock> only on LP
[03:20] <LaserJock> once a packages is superseded it gets removed from the archives
[03:20] <jamesh> I don't think the librarian will change to put multiple files in a directory or similar (it is designed for serving individual files)
[03:20] <LaserJock> right
[03:20] <jamesh> but you could file a bug for the "URLs for all the files for this package" idea
[03:21] <LaserJock> I was just thinking maybe it's possible to tie the files together in a way that makes it possible to get them in a non-web way
[03:21] <jamesh> (of course, using Bazaar branches instead of source packages might help here too ...
[03:21] <LaserJock> heh
[03:21] <LaserJock> yeah, that would to a fair extent
[03:48] <zarul> anyone around?
[03:49] <LaserJock> no
[03:49] <LaserJock> maybe
[03:49] <LaserJock> you never know :-)
[03:49] <zarul> Just wanna ask, how come the mailbox of my group ,members  been bombarded with "support request" for the last 2 days
[03:51] <LaserJock> hmm, are they related to your group at all?
[03:51] <zarul> no
[03:51] <zarul> the reason why it pissed off a lot of my members
[03:52] <zarul><EMAIL_ADDRESS>
[03:52] <zarul> 	to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>
[03:52] <zarul> 	date		Mar 16, 2007 10:48 AM
[03:52] <zarul> 	subject		[Support #4202] : Is there any way to choose which OS when the comp start?
[03:52] <zarul> Support request #4202 on Ubuntu changed:
[03:52] <zarul> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/4202
[03:52] <zarul> Description changed to:
[03:54] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:54] <LaserJock> how many are you getting, roughly?
[03:55] <LaserJock> and what is your team?
[03:55] <zarul> scary,you don't want to know, its like every support tickets was mailed to us..
[03:55] <zarul> MalaysianTeam
[03:55] <LaserJock> ok, yeah
[03:55] <LaserJock> I see you are subscribed to it
[03:55] <zarul> is it? How was that possible?
[03:56] <LaserJock> I really don't know
[03:56] <LaserJock> on your team page I don't see it
[03:57] <zarul> yeah, the  reason why I am here...this sounds so weird..
[03:57] <zarul> a bug?
[03:57] <LaserJock> well, I'm not a Launcpad dev
[03:58] <LaserJock> but I think you might want to email the launchpad-users mailing list
[03:58] <LaserJock> it looks pretty funky to me
[04:09] <sabdfl> zarul: can you unsubscribe your team
[04:09] <sabdfl> ?
[04:10] <LaserJock> oh, hi sabdfl
[04:10] <sabdfl> howdy
[04:10] <LaserJock> kinda early there isn't it?
[04:10] <LaserJock> wherever you are
[04:10] <ajmitch> probably getting ready to hit the slopes :)
[04:10] <LaserJock> oh man, we had excellent skiing there for a while
[04:10] <zarul> sabdfl, there is no way I can do that
[04:10] <sabdfl> it's somewhere between very late and very early
[04:10] <LaserJock> now this week it's record highs
[04:11] <sabdfl> zarul: the person to speak with is flacoste
[04:11] <LaserJock> we hit 80F an people are still skiing up at the top
[04:11] <LaserJock> *and
[04:11] <sabdfl> zarul: is it just that ticket, or lots of them?
[04:11] <LaserJock> sounds like lots of them
[04:12] <zarul> sabdfl,  a lot of them
[04:12] <LaserJock> although it could be just lots of comments on that one
[04:12] <sabdfl> zarul: do you think someone maliciously subscribed your team to a lot of tickets?
[04:12] <sabdfl> stub: there's an oddness in the db
[04:12] <zarul> sabdfl, I am not sure with that...
[04:13] <zarul> Some of my members have deactivated their accounts
[04:13] <zarul> and others sending me email complaining
[04:14] <zarul> I wish I know who is the culprit
[04:17] <sabdfl> yeah, this is frustrating
[04:17] <sabdfl> stub: is there a way to remove the Malaysian Team from all questions?
[04:19] <sabdfl> zarul: in a copy of the db from yesterday, your team has zero subscriptions
[04:20] <sabdfl> i can look again tomorrow to see which ones are there
[04:20] <zarul> yeah, that's the reason why is so weird, cause we didn't subscribe to it and our page also tell us the same story...
[04:20] <spiv> LaserJock: sorry, was busy pairing with lifeless on something
[04:21] <lifeless> PPA is all about this
[04:21] <spiv> LaserJock: talk to cprov
[04:22] <lifeless> theres more to an archive than just the immediate source files
[04:22] <spiv> As lifeless says, PPA is intended to help with this I think.
[04:22] <lifeless> theres the metadata for what distrorelease its for etc
[04:22] <spiv> (and more)
[04:22] <zarul> the latest one I got  was
[04:22] <zarul> New support request #4225 on Ubuntu:
[04:22] <lifeless> so I'd expect that to be a solid solution.
[04:22] <zarul> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ticket/4225
[04:22] <lifeless> also, we could have four urls in the main lp namespace that redirect, if we wanted
[04:23] <lifeless> i.e. lp.net/ubuntu/+source/foo/2.5.4-23/foo_2.5.4-23.dsc
[04:23] <lifeless> we dont today, but thats a possibility
[04:23] <LaserJock> lifeless: I was thinking about that
[04:23] <lifeless> only works for stuff uploaded though
[04:23] <LaserJock> but it might be interesting with non-native vs native packages
[04:24] <LaserJock> but yeah PPA might help there
[04:24] <LaserJock> but will PPA affect the Ubuntu archive?
[04:24] <spiv> The librarian is the wrong level to address this at.
[04:24] <lifeless> LaserJock: hang on, why do you want to give lp urls at all ?
[04:24] <lifeless> LaserJock: why not give ubuntu archive urls ?
[04:25] <lifeless> spiv: the librarian doesn't serve the archive yet does it ?
[04:25] <LaserJock> lifeless: because archive packages come and go
[04:25] <spiv> lifeless: not AFAIK
[04:25] <LaserJock> we want access to every source package ever :-)
[04:25] <lifeless> LaserJock: the librarian has garbage collection too though
[04:25] <zarul> sabdfl, could this be a bug?
[04:25] <LaserJock> well, it's a lot better than archive.u.c
[04:25] <lifeless> LaserJock: AFAIK no
[04:25] <LaserJock> sure it is
[04:25] <sabdfl> zarul: yes, it could be
[04:26] <LaserJock> I've been able to get lots of superseeded (sp?) packages from LP
[04:26] <spiv> lifeless: in my extremely limited experience, packages I've wanted that have disappeared from the archive are always available in the librarian via LP.
[04:26] <jamesh> zarul: so you can't uncheck Malaysian Team at "https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+support-contact" ?
[04:26] <lifeless> LaserJock: hmm, its probably because we're gc'ing the archive more aggressively to be nice to mirrors
[04:27] <LaserJock> lifeless: I get stuff waaay back
[04:27] <lifeless> LaserJock: anyhow, the key things are: theres no base url you can use today, if you want to do something like that put in a spec request, otherwise you may end up being stufed.
[04:27] <lifeless> LaserJock: and if you can get all the files from lp, consider using beautiful soup to gather the urls easily.
[04:27] <LaserJock> so far I've never run across a case where a source version was on the source package but the package files weren't there
[04:28] <LaserJock> bah, that was an aweful sentence
[04:28] <sabdfl> oh
[04:28] <sabdfl> i see what's going on
[04:29] <sabdfl> someone has made a bunch of teams into answer-contacts for ubuntu
[04:29] <LaserJock> it's just a tad frustrating that it's much easier to get packages from Debian or REVU or pretty much any archive other than Launchpad :/
[04:29] <sabdfl> mpt: we were talking about having a registrant and datecreated for every table?
[04:29] <sabdfl> this is why
[04:30] <zarul> jamesh, thanks for that, I unchecked it ..
[04:31] <jamesh> zarul: check the subscriber lists for a few of the tickets you got email about
[04:31] <jamesh> zarul: to make sure the team is off the list
[04:31] <sabdfl> https://answers.beta.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+support-contact
[04:31] <zarul> but, can anyone just check the thing?
[04:31] <jamesh> zarul: given the way the UI is at the moment, it would have been done by a member of the team
[04:31] <sabdfl> we need to track who creates any given record, and when
[04:32] <sabdfl> then we would know
[04:32] <jamesh> it would probably be worth only letting team admins set a team as a support contact or bug contact
[04:32] <lifeless> sabdfl: also who changes one I think, to catch people that unsubscribe when a team is meant to be subscribed
[04:32] <zarul> yeah, this doesn't sound cool as people have malicious things in their head..
[04:33] <zarul> *some people
[04:33] <jamesh> sounds like the time for a witch hunt
[04:33] <sabdfl> burn 'im
[04:33] <LaserJock> more witches!
[04:33] <zarul> sabdfl, anyway we can track who changed the status?
[04:33] <jamesh> LaserJock might be a witch
[04:34] <sabdfl> zarul: no
[04:34] <LaserJock> but ...
[04:34] <sabdfl> shhhh...
[04:34] <LaserJock> I swear, sabdfl turned me into a newt!
[04:34] <ajmitch> jamesh: depend if he's heavier than a duck
[04:35] <jamesh> ajmitch: I hear that witches aren't fire proof, which is why burning at the stake is a good way of detecting them
[04:35] <LaserJock> hmm
[04:36] <jamesh> LaserJock: that sounds like the sort of thing a witch would do
[04:36] <LaserJock> shhh
[04:37] <LaserJock> I might have to get out my Holy Hand Grenade to protect myself
[04:37] <LaserJock> that LP has big pointy teeth
[04:49] <zarul> gosh, LP should have an option to let us email all our team members..
[04:56] <thumper> zarul: interesting, file a bug
[04:58] <LaserJock> I think there's already bugs for having team ML or some such
[04:59] <thumper> hmm
[04:59] <thumper> thinking though it may be open to abuse if you have a general "contact team" button ;-)
[04:59] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:59] <LaserJock> it's got to be carefully done I think
[04:59] <thumper> perhaps have it visible if you are a member of the team
[04:59] <thumper> and not if you aren't
[05:00] <LaserJock> perhaps
[05:00] <LaserJock> although maybe it should be configurable like personal email addresses
[05:01] <zarul> sorta like
[05:01] <LaserJock> considering that many/most people have contact emails on LP
[05:01] <LaserJock> maybe it's not a huge stretch to have team emails available
[05:01] <zarul> users allowed to configure whether to only receive emails from admin or every members
[05:03] <LaserJock> I think there was a suggestion of just having like<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or something similar
[05:03] <LaserJock> but that would seem open to a lot of abuse
[05:38] <stub> zarul, sabdfl: Is this sorted, or is there something I need to remove manually?
[05:38] <stub> (sorry - was making a screencast for tom)
[05:38] <zarul> stub, problem solved
[05:39] <zarul> for now atleast
[05:40] <sabdfl> stub: it's sorted
[05:40] <sabdfl> but please make a note that we need a date_created and registrant on every table
[05:41] <sabdfl> so we know, for example, who made the Malaysian Team a bug contact on Ubuntu
[05:41] <sabdfl> thanks stub
[05:41] <sabdfl> this is true even for things like subscriptions - because Joe can subscribe Paul, and we need to know whodunnit
[05:47] <stub> ok
[09:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #92751 in rosetta "Translation export does not indicate release" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92751
[09:31] <carlos> morning
[09:32] <mdke> morning carlos!
[09:33] <carlos> mdke: hey, I didn't have time yesterday to finish with kubuntu-docs and ubuntu-docs
[10:18] <carlos> mdke: I just approved all ubuntu-docs templates, they should be full imported in next hours
[10:31] <carlos>  /away I'm not here
[10:31] <carlos> :-P
[12:25] <sabdfl> stub: also, registrant+date_created gives us easier RSS feeds etc
[12:25] <sabdfl> i noticed we don't have date_created on distrorelease!
[12:47] <cprov> good morning folks !
[12:56] <Kmos> new ubuntu.com webpage online :)
[12:57] <stub> sabdfl: I went through a while ago and added a lot to all the things that seemed sensible. It didn't click at the time for subscriptions, but I agree we should have it.
[12:57] <sabdfl> thanks stub
[12:57] <stub> sabdfl: distrorelease - I somehow think I left it off there for some reason. Are there other dates appropriate already in there?
[12:58] <sabdfl> oh, weird
[12:58] <sabdfl> it's in the db, just not in the class
[12:58] <stub> distrorelease has a date_reated
[12:58] <sabdfl> or maybe i'm on crack
[12:58] <stub> yup. I added it to the tables but left updating the classes to others...
[12:58] <sabdfl> ah...
[12:59] <sabdfl> cop-out ;-)
[12:59] <sabdfl> did you file bugs where they don't exist, at least?
[12:59] <stub> Prime goal was landing the patch quickly so we started collecting the data asap :)
[12:59] <stub> Nope
[12:59] <sabdfl> furry muff
[01:00] <stub> My aim is to get the interfaces validated against the db schema, or even generate most of the interfaces.
[01:00] <sabdfl> validation i would go with
[01:00] <stub> chicken
[01:00] <sabdfl> we could easily check that SQLObject classes map correctly to the db
[01:01] <stub> I'm leaving it until Storm so I don't have to do it twice
[01:01] <stub> (and also because I won't have time until then anyway...)
[01:01] <sabdfl> that's reasonable
[01:49] <kiko-zzz> bon giorno
[01:49] <kiko> stub, ah, so date_created is missing from distrorelease too?
[02:44] <Kmos> kiko: http://www.goplan.info - made in portugal :)
[04:08] <kiko> where's jordi
[06:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #92853 in launchpad "output missing lpm namespace (invalid XML)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92853
[06:54] <lfittl> is "nominate for release" the correct thing if something should be fixed in feisty and edgy?
[06:55] <pochu> lfittl: I think so
[06:55] <pochu> of course, you should nominate for edgy :)
[06:56] <lfittl> ok, and should i nominate it for feisty as well?
[07:05] <pochu> lfittl: what bug is it?
[07:06] <lfittl> 69701
[07:06] <lfittl> malone #69701
[07:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 69701 in tktable "tktable installs faulty pkgIndex.tcl" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69701 - Assigned to Daniel Rus Morales (rus-daniel)
[07:28] <statik> ddaa: know anything about that python-subversion crash on AMD64? bug 91848
[07:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 91848 in subversion "segfault when importing libsvn.wc in python 2.4 on feisty/amd64" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91848
[07:29] <ddaa> statik: upstream python bindings suck more than an industrial vacuum cleaner in a whorehouse?
[07:29] <ddaa> or did you ask about specific knowledge about this bug?
[07:30] <statik> ddaa: not a SWIG fan, eh?
[07:30] <ddaa> nothing against SWIG
[07:30] <statik> ddaa: yeah, I'm more interested in avoiding or helping to solve this particular bug
[07:30] <ddaa> something against how it's used in this case, and AFAICT it's "badly" by any measure.
[07:30] <statik> I tried the workaround of removing svn_oo from cscvs/moduels/SCM/__init__.py, but that doesn't seem to avoid the crash in my case
[07:31] <ddaa> ha right
[07:31] <statik> just thought I would check if you had particular knowledge about it
[07:31] <ddaa> so your actual problem is what, running a test suite?
[07:32] <ddaa> I guess you're not really interested in cscvs at this point.
[07:33] <ddaa> statik: the only way I can suggest working around it is by not use he upstream bindings.
[07:33] <ddaa> I and do have work in the pipe to do exactly this, but it got stalled by more urgent things.
[07:33] <ddaa> s/not use he/not using the/
[07:33] <statik> ddaa: ok, understood. yeah, my problem is that when I run test.py, the python interpreter crashes
[07:34] <statik> jamesh narrowed it down in the bug report, its a crash when libsvn.wc is imported
[07:34] <statik> I can just run python2.4, and type "import libsvn.wc", and it crashes
[07:35] <ddaa> I'm curious about which bits actually need to import this when do you test.py
[07:35] <ddaa> got it...
[07:35] <ddaa> mh no...
[07:36] <ddaa> ha yes, must be the import fascist
[07:37] <ddaa> maybe if you tell the import fascist to ignore lib/importd/tests and the stuff below it
[07:38] <ddaa> there does not appear to be anything in the actual launchpad test suite that needs cscvs
[07:38] <ddaa> and the importd test suite is still using a separate test runner for historical reasons
[07:38] <statik> ddaa rescues me again
[07:38] <ddaa> you could also just remove lib/importd/tests/test_svnstrategy.py from your tree and patch its __init__.py to not import it
[07:39] <ddaa> but please do not land it...
[07:39] <ddaa> another option, you could do all my other work so I can focus of getting rid of upstream python bindings :)
[07:39] <statik> ddaa: :)
[07:39] <statik> any idea how I can tell import fascist to ignore this path?
[07:40] <ddaa> none
[07:40] <statik> fair enough. last question: who should that bug be assigned to? is that a contact upstream thing?
[07:41] <statik> ddaa: and thanks very much for the help and suggestions, as always
[07:41] <ddaa> statik: well, there's only an ubuntu bug so far
[07:41] <ddaa> it should be assigned to whoever is in charge of maintaining this ubuntu package
[07:42] <ddaa> for upstream, I guess you'd have to file the bug on their own bugtracker and create an upstream bugwatch.
[07:45] <ddaa> on second thought, i'm not sure that the importfascist trick will do it, but it's worth exploring
[07:45] <ddaa> there might be other places that indirectly end up importing the svn bindings
[07:46] <SteveA> statik: I can answer questions about the fascist
[07:47] <SteveA> statik: but after I get back from food shopping
[07:47] <statik> SteveA: I've just been talking about this python-subversion crash on AMD64 with ddaa, and wondering whether it is possible to tell the fascist to ignore a particular module
[07:48] <statik> statik: ok, enjoy your shopping! this is not so important at the moment, I just happened to remember about it
[07:51] <ddaa> statik: I guess if you hack cscvs into not importing the upstream bindings, it might work too
[07:51] <ddaa> it would be horribly broken, but that should not matter to you
[07:52] <ddaa> and then you need not touch launchpad at all
[07:52] <ddaa> so, hunt for things that "import svn" and "import from svn"
[07:53] <ddaa> s/import from svn/from svn import/
[07:53] <ddaa> actually, just "from svn"
[07:53] <statik> ddaa: grep -R --include=*.py 'import svn' . | wc -l gives me 81 imports
[07:54] <statik> I'm going to take a quick look at the crash under GDB to see if there is anything obvious, and then just switch to running tests on the laptop
[07:57] <mdke> carlos: ok, thanks. any progress on kubuntu-docs?
[07:57] <carlos> mdke: it's next in my queue
[07:58] <carlos> mdke: is ubuntu-doc as it should?
[07:58] <carlos> mdke: btw, did you manage to prepare the .po files?
[07:59] <mdke> carlos: not yet. ubuntu-docs templates look great
[07:59] <carlos> ok
[07:59] <ddaa> statik: there's probably a lot of noise in this stat
[07:59] <ddaa> because it matches "svn_oo" as well
[07:59] <mdke> carlos: thanks for that
[07:59] <carlos> mdke: don't worry, Sorry for being a bit late with it
[08:00] <carlos> mdke: I didn't thought you changed so much the templates
[08:00] <mdke> np
[09:25] <sabdfl> kiko-afk: date_created is in the db, not in the content class
[09:25] <sabdfl> stub did a round of adding them to the db in lots of places, but not to the db classes
[09:25] <kiko-afk> sabdfl, I'll add it in
[09:25] <sabdfl> also, we need the registrant everywhere, too
[09:26] <kiko-afk> sabdfl, in DistroRelease I can see date_created.
[09:26] <kiko-afk> and I added one to Distribution this week which was missing
[09:26] <kiko-afk> anyway, physiotherapy and I'm late bbiab
[09:30] <sabdfl> it might have been distribution i noticed didn't have it
[10:06] <Cypherix> I wanted to ask a question if possible to the admins, I want to mirror Kubuntu on my servers, I have unlimited bandwidth and a 100Mbit line, who should I contact?
[10:08] <salgado> Cypherix, either Znarl or send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:54] <LaserJock> kiko: I've got a question
[11:56] <kiko> I may have an answer.
[11:58] <LaserJock> sometimes in LP there are bugs that kind of attempt to all fix one issue
[11:59] <LaserJock> we were just looking at bug #90846 bug #55795 and bug #48735
[11:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 90846 in soyuz "Please include the complete changelog on the <srcpkg>/+changelog page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90846
[11:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55795 in soyuz "+changelog includes misleading information related to package versions and authors" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/55795
[11:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48735 in soyuz "changelog histories for packages are not viewable/searchable" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/48735
[12:00] <LarstiQ> ah, 55795
[12:01] <kiko> okay so far.
[12:01] <kiko> they are related, yes
[12:02] <LaserJock> so is there anyway to kind of keep track of them?
[12:02] <LaserJock> I guess they aren't really true dups or anything
[12:02] <LaserJock> I just find a fair amount of kinda vague and related bugs when it comes to LP
[12:03] <LaserJock> do you guys ever use like an umbrella bug that references several related bugs
[12:04] <LaserJock> ok, well maybe I'm not even making sense :-)
[12:05] <kiko> we don't have tracker bugs, no
[12:05] <kiko> we could use tags to group
[12:05] <kiko> but only 3 bugs? easier to search
[12:05] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:05] <LaserJock> ok, I just wondered if you guys found it difficult sometimes and had some nifty solution
[12:06] <kiko> not really. related bugs would be a cool feature though.
[12:06] <LaserJock> yeah
[12:06] <LaserJock> for occasions when a tag is overkill
[12:07] <LaserJock> but kinda ties related bugs together
[12:07] <kiko> yeppers.
[12:07] <kiko> in particular when fixing one bug will solve another
[12:08] <kiko> or fixing one bug will uncover another issue
[12:08] <LaserJock> yes
[12:08] <Fujitsu> I'd like to see such a feature.
[12:08] <Fujitsu> Sort of like specs blocking things, but not.
[12:08] <ddaa> kiko: ++
[12:09] <ddaa> I actually often put "Related to bug 1234 and bug 4567" in bug summaries.
[12:09] <Ubugtu> Bug 1234 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 is private
[12:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4567 in eclipse "Eclipse won't start on ubuntu dapper (amd64) (dup-of: 3074)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4567 - Assigned to Matthias Klose (doko)
[12:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3074 in eclipse "Eclipse fails to boot" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3074
[12:09] <Fujitsu> Especially useful for sync requests, which often fix several reported bugs, but they have to be tracked manually.
[12:09] <ddaa> but keeping the links in sync is a pain.
[12:09] <LarstiQ> 'ref bug #' is kinda nice in trac
[12:10] <ddaa> not sure what would be the best way to solve through...
[12:10] <ddaa> either bidirectional links or N-directional groups...
[12:10] <ddaa> the latter would probably be hard to handle in the UI.
[12:11] <kiko> the former sounds more practical yeah
[12:11] <ddaa> but please, do not put more semantic in that...
[12:12] <ddaa> just a simple annotation that creates links on two bugs, no lifecycle, no status update, etc.
[12:12] <ddaa> "related to" is just a handwavy way to help navigation.
[12:13] <LaserJock> yes


[00:04] <xivulon> I'll have a look
[00:25] <xivulon> shall securityfs be skept in umountfs?
[00:49] <xivulon> umountfs does not work well, in particular it kills the /host when unmounting /boot
[00:50] <xivulon> that's because /boot is bindmounted and its device is the hostedevice
[00:51] <xivulon> when unmounted, even if the mountpoint is passed umount as opposed to the device, the umount -f -d arguments seem to be lethal
[00:53] <xivulon> cjwatson, evand, comments?
[00:54] <xivulon> is passed TO umount
[05:15] <ganesh> cjwatson, hai
[05:26] <ganesh> cjwatson, i want to talk about the live cum install cd
[05:47] <ganesh> cjwatson, i want to talk about the live cum install cd
[09:27] <CIA-22> debian-installer: cjwatson * r871 ubuntu/ (10 files in 4 dirs): * Move to 2.6.24-5 kernels.
[09:44] <xivulon> evand, cjwatson did you see my messages yesterday?
[09:44] <xivulon> in short we still have issues with umountfs because of the umount flags used
[09:46] <xivulon> the proposed solution is to keep track of both mountpoints and devices in top part of /proc/mounts (above /)
[09:47] <xivulon> then skip the mountpoints that match, and for the devices that match use umount without -f flag
[09:47] <xivulon> -f -d
[09:54] <evand> xivulon: please send me a patch using diff -u and I'll take a look.
[09:57] <xivulon> ok
[10:05] <xivulon> evand do we need to skip securityfs?
[10:05] <xivulon> like we do for procfs|linprocfs|devfs|sysfs|usbfs|usbdevfs|devpts?
[10:06] <cjwatson> xivulon: re console-setup/layoutcode, en_GB is flat wrong. gb is correct.
[10:06] <cjwatson> the names correspond to files in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/
[10:22] <xivulon> hmm cjwatson I had that both in /proc/cmdline and in preseed but did not see that having any effect in installer/syslog and certainly the layout was us
[10:22] <xivulon> locale instead worked as expected
[10:24] <xivulon> when I do protected_mounts=$(sed -n '0,/^\/[^ ]* \/ /p' /proc/mounts) the eol is treated differently according to the shell used
[10:26] <xivulon> how do I force eol in there?
[10:27] <cjwatson> xivulon: if it's not working then that sounds like a bug; changing the preseeding would at best be a workaround
[10:29] <xivulon> My first thought was that my preseed was wrong
[10:41] <xivulon> sh q: how do I keep end of lines in x=$(cat /proc/mounts) ?
[10:45] <cjwatson> quote it properly: x="$(cat /proc/mounts)"
[10:45] <cjwatson> the trailing newline at the very end will be stripped (so add it back in as necessary) but not the others
[10:46] <cjwatson> in general in shell, all $ expansions should be surrounded by "" unless you know better
[10:46] <cjwatson> (there are some specific cases where they shouldn't be, but those are the exception rather than the rule)
[10:47] <xivulon> cjwatson I am trying to do:
[10:47] <xivulon> x="$(cat /proc/mounts)";echo $x | grep "^/dev"
[10:48] <cjwatson> echo "$x"
[10:48] <cjwatson> the quoting rule applies everywhere :)
[10:48] <xivulon> ah
[10:52] <xivulon> evand, cjwatson see if the following will do: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53419/
[10:52] <xivulon> have not tasted it
[10:52] <xivulon> diff http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53420/
[10:54] <xivulon> ops diff is other way around
[10:55] <xivulon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53421/
[10:59] <xivulon> teake 3: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53422/
[11:02] <xivulon> did not test it though and cannot test until tonight, one issue I can thing of is the umount order is altered
[11:15] <xivulon> take 4: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53426/
[11:16] <xivulon> this should preserve the umount order
[11:16] <xivulon> again, I did not taste it, cjwatson, evand, have a look
[11:43] <xivulon> evand, cjwatson, another issue I noticed is that the suspend button is correctly hidden in loopinstallations, but the hibernate button is still there
[15:07] <CIA-22> ubiquity: evand * r2417 ubiquity/ (bin/ubiquity-dm debian/changelog): * Add usability support to 'only-ubiquity'.
[15:10] <evand> xivulon: if you decide you want to add accessibility support to Wubi, it's as simple on the Ubiquity side as adding access= and a proper code (see casper-bottom/30accessibility) after the -- on the kernel cmdline.
[15:21] <xivulon> evand yes absolutely
[15:22] <xivulon> I'd say that after we have this working okish (=update-grub+umounhost+no-hibernation+layoutcode-preseeding) I will look into that
[15:23] <xivulon> I only need to know what parameters ubiquity takes in that respect and how to fetch the info within windows to decide whether to use those parameters
[15:24] <xivulon> umountfs*
[15:29] <xivulon> it's v1, v2, v3, m1, m2 correct? Now I only have to find how to map registry keys to that, anyone has any clue?
[15:31] <xivulon> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/bb879984.aspx
[15:33] <xivulon> in the link above see HCI profile
[15:34] <xivulon> They have more categories then v/m though.
[15:35] <xivulon> mpt what would you suggest about detecting windows accessibility settings and mapping them to ubuntu's?
[15:37] <xivulon> I'd go through apps registered as mandatory in Ease of Access Center, and look at their HCI profile:
[15:37] <xivulon> mild vision->v2, sever vision->v3, mild_dexterety->m1, severe_dexterety->m2
[15:37] <xivulon> speech/hearing/cognitive are ignored
[15:38] <mpt> xivulon, I'd need to sit down with screenshots of both to give any useful advice on that
[15:40] <xivulon> can you maybe draft a page on how to do said mapping? I know next to nothing on the subject based my  simple proposal only on 2 minutes googling
[15:48] <mpt> xivulon, ok, report a bug and assign it to me for the design, and I'll reassign it to you when I've attached it
[15:52] <xivulon> under what project?
[15:53] <xivulon> I mean it can be either wubi or a branch off migration assistant
[15:53] <xivulon> evand what's your take on that?
[15:55] <evand> why would this be part of migration-assistant?
[15:55] <xivulon> if people install off CD, it would be nice to find out existing accessibility settings
[15:56] <xivulon> not sure whether that is provided already
[15:58] <xivulon> I assume they have the initial boot options in that case though
[15:58] <xivulon> I'll that in wubi then
[15:58] <xivulon> do^
[15:59] <evand> It's part of the initial menu.  It occurs to me that I never implemented the migration-assistant defaults seeding.
[15:59] <evand> I'm not sure if it would be wise to add accessibility detection to m-a as that fits in with language and timezone selection, but does not have a part of the ubiquity UI like they do.
[16:00] <evand> I still think it would be great to have in wubi though.
[16:00] <evand> be it automatically detected or another drop down box.
[16:06] <xivulon> mpt, evand bug #185954
[16:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 185954 in wubi "Detect accessibility settings" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185954
[21:08] <ceekay> my network card is not supported by the modules included in the debian-installer initrd... is there an easy way to unpack the initrd + add in modules + repack?
[21:15] <ceekay> in particular i can't seen to mount the initrd as a loopback device and peek inside... complains about you must specify a filesystem type
[21:16] <ceekay> is the initrd contained in mini.iso in fact a gzipp'ed ext2 filesystem or something different?
[21:24] <ceekay> well  gzip -dc initrd.gz | cpio -id   seems to do the trick
[21:52] <Michi2> test....


[10:05] <Stephens> o.0?
[10:08] <Myrtti> hm?
[12:02] <Stephens> Myrtti lot's of ping timeouts.
[12:03] <Myrtti> yes?
[12:03] <Stephens> you said, hm?, I reply.
[12:04] <Myrtti> selffuelling loop then


[03:56] <superkuh> So, the torrent http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/precise/release/lubuntu-12.04-alternate-amd64.iso.torrent actually downloads "lubuntu-12.04-desktop-i386" and not the alternate install CD.
[04:01] <superkuh> Or, at least it is named that. I'm downloading the alternate install via HTTP to compare.
[04:23] <superkuh> Yup. The torrent does actually download the wrong iso.
[08:34] <furycd001> Hey can anyone help me :?  I have installed lubuntu & created a custom openbox session. can anyone tell me how to remove the lubuntu session, login manager & boot straight to openbox :?
[14:11] <test123> Hi all.
[15:21] <Jef91> Does Lubuntu 12.04 use a PAE only kernel like Ubuntu 12.04 does?
[15:26] <Sentynel> Jef91: lubuntu uses the same software repositories as ubuntu, and thus the same default kernel
[15:27] <Jef91> Ahh so Lubuntu 12.04 doesn't install to non-PAE systems then?
[15:27] <Sentynel> as far as I'm aware pae is not the default in 12.04
[15:27] <Sentynel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE/ suggests PAE only becomes default in 12.10
[15:28] <Sentynel> ah, the PAE kernel is provided by the installer if >3GB of system memory is detected
[15:29] <Sentynel> I don't know if that feature is included in lubuntu's installer, though I would guess so, but I can't see it defaulting to PAE before ubuntu does
[15:30] <Jef91> thanks
[18:27] <smile> bye :)
[19:20] <silverarrow> hi
[19:21] <silverarrow> is there a way to connect to the internet with a laptop to laptop connection
[19:21] <silverarrow> I have a laptop running wireless fine, and one with only wired connection
[19:22] <silverarrow> hi
[19:23] <silverarrow> has anone manage laptop to laptop internet connection?
[19:24] <silverarrow> when I connect the wire from my lubuntu laptop to my windows laptop, nothing happens
[19:25] <silverarrow> maybe it doesn't work with wired connection
[19:25] <silverarrow> I have no access to the modem
[19:25] <silverarrow> which is silly I know
[19:25] <silverarrow> but there you are
[19:25] <silverarrow> ...or I am
[19:26] <Unit193> Did you try http://askubuntu.com/questions/129579/creating-a-hotspot-in-lubuntu ?
[19:27] <silverarrow> i don't know why, but the power pc lubuntu is really anoying with wireless
[19:27] <silverarrow> neither of my usb wireless adaptors works either
[19:28] <silverarrow> no, I haven't asked there Unit193
[19:28] <silverarrow> seems there are no direct answer either
[19:29] <gomiboy> silverarrow: are you using direct connection, without a hub/switch?
[19:29] <silverarrow> so, it's called a hotspot?
[19:29] <silverarrow> ...hmm...
[19:30] <silverarrow> ...some futher googeling...
[19:30] <Unit193> There was a link to a guide, and the reason why the user couldn't get it.
[19:30] <Unit193> ad hoc.
[19:31] <silverarrow> well, yes, it seems I have to have buntu on both computers
[19:33] <silverarrow> thanks for the link
[19:33] <silverarrow> i shall get to it
[19:35] <silverarrow> gomiboy: not sure, I just have a windows laptop connected to the modem with a usb wireless, and a cable from the lubuntu laptop to the windows laptop
[19:36] <silverarrow> I need a regular modem connection, should be less fuzz then
[19:38] <silverarrow> hi zleap
[19:38] <zleap> hi
[19:39] <silverarrow> I have come as far as installing lubuntu on the ibook
[19:39] <silverarrow> seems to run fine, but I have to fix the wireless to get connected, and some booting issue
[19:40] <silverarrow> I have to give a blacklist comand at boot up for it to work
[19:40] <silverarrow> it might sort it's self out as soon as I get the updates
[19:41] <silverarrow> the old ibook behaves, silent, smooth...
[19:41] <silverarrow> I like lubuntu
[19:41] <silverarrow> no need for more ram it seems, though I might get some
[19:42] <silverarrow> isn't 1GB a must these days?
[19:42] <SkippersBoss> if you want a stable sytem it seems to be the case
[19:42] <silverarrow> oh, I do
[19:43] <silverarrow> unfortunately a lot of dismateling on the ibook I think, but it is a onetime thing
[19:43] <silverarrow> luckily I found a guide
[19:44] <silverarrow> I think there a two slots in this one, one is emtpy, and max is 1.5GB
[19:45] <silverarrow> do anyone of you know what a "Linux b43.blacklist=yes" command is?
[19:45] <silverarrow> I don't think I will fuzz with it until I have done the updates
[19:46] <silverarrow> hoping it might sort it's self out then
[19:47] <zleap> i have lubuntu with 2gb works great
[19:48] <zleap> the black list is something to do with drivers so they are not loaded
[19:48] <zleap> i think
[19:48] <zleap> try man <command>
[19:49] <silverarrow> I have been looking at this neat Samsung laptop
[19:50] <silverarrow> much like the mac pros, very nice, light and solid
[19:50] <silverarrow> i mean, firmware seems well put together, both internal parts and casing
[19:57] <silverarrow> back later
[19:57] <silverarrow> ;-)
[19:57] <silverarrow> oh, smilies
[19:57] <silverarrow> on irc
[19:58] <zleap> k
[20:30] <zleap> anyone here from canada ?
[22:23] <Guest78978> hi yall
[22:24] <Guest78978> how do u sign in on the irc i got it registered but dont know how to sign in or what ever
[22:25] <pv2b>  /msg nickserv identify <your nickname> <your password>
[22:25] <Unit193> Or you could set it up for your client to do it for you, what client?
[22:41] <Guest78978> xchat gnome
[22:42] <Unit193> There should be a server password input box, put username:password in there.
[22:51] <lubuntuHDD> hello
[22:52] <kanliot> hi
[22:52] <lubuntuHDD> I've tried installing lubuntu 12.04 about 5 times now, and each time, the installer fails during the "copy files" portion -- I suspect hardware problems
[22:52] <kanliot> lemme guess you have 512 mb ram
[22:52] <lubuntuHDD> I'd like to test the hdd
[22:53] <lubuntuHDD> I have 512 or less, but alternate install fails as well
[22:53] <kanliot> did you try test disc?
[22:53] <lubuntuHDD> I don't know how to test the HDD, or what other components could be causing it to fail
[22:53] <lubuntuHDD> kanliot: yes
[22:53] <kanliot> and how did the alt install fail?
[22:54] <lubuntuHDD> It gave a red screen and said, "sorry, X package could not be installed" or something like that, and then asked me if I wanted to continue from a previous part of the installation
[22:54] <lubuntuHDD> but it would always fail, but the package it failed at varied randomly
[22:55] <lubuntuHDD> The CD drive would also eject randomly
[22:55] <lubuntuHDD> so I got a liveUSB instead, and used PloP boot manager to boot it
[22:56] <kanliot> how is your internet connection?
[22:56] <kanliot> i'm just guessing here
[22:56] <lubuntuHDD> I didn't set it up during the alt install
[22:57] <lubuntuHDD> but it worked in graphical
[22:57] <lubuntuHDD> when I tried that way
[22:57] <kanliot> did you try alternate from the liveusb?
[22:57] <kanliot> i mean alternate from the usb?
[22:57] <lubuntuHDD> yeah I understood -- not yet
[22:58] <lubuntuHDD> I really suspect a hardware problem though
[22:58] <kanliot> on the livecd
[22:58] <kanliot> there is a memory test
[22:58] <kanliot> that works pretty well
[22:58] <kanliot> but you should be using alternate from the usb
[22:58] <lubuntuHDD> I can do that -- but what if the memory is ok and something else is wrong
[22:59] <kanliot> yeah could be
[22:59] <kanliot> on my system i run systemtester it calculates pi
[22:59] <kanliot> to test the cpu
[22:59] <kanliot> and my hard drives have smart monitoring
[22:59] <kanliot> and if that doesn't work, i repleace the ide cables
[23:00] <lubuntuHDD> that could be the issue
[23:00] <lubuntuHDD> mine are very old
[23:00] <lubuntuHDD> and about a month ago, lubuntu was already installed on this computer, but just crashed and wouldn't boot up after that.
[23:02] <kanliot> that sounds pretty bad
[23:02] <kanliot> make sure cpu isn't overheating
[23:02] <kanliot> i guess that's obvious
[23:02] <kanliot> but chekc anyhow
[23:03] <kanliot> like with a clogged heat sing
[23:03] <kanliot> sink
[23:03] <lubuntuHDD> I can check -- and nothing is obvious... :p
[23:04] <lubuntuHDD> I just know enough about computers to be a danger to them lol
[23:06] <kanliot> should i turn my pc off? are you that dangerous?
[23:07] <genoobie> hey all
[23:08] <kanliot> hi
[23:09] <genoobie> trying to install "minecraft" on ubuntu so my kids can play
[23:09] <genoobie> but I think i am missing java virtual machine
[23:09] <genoobie> when I type this "java -Xmx1024M -Xms512M -cp Minecraft.jar net.minecraft.LauncherFrame"
[23:10] <genoobie> I get an error "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: net/minecraft/LauncherFrame"
[23:10] <genoobie> "Could not find the main class: net.minecraft.LauncherFrame"
[23:10] <genoobie> is that because of an absent JVM?
[23:10] <kanliot> i'd ask in the minecraft channel
[23:11] <genoobie> ok, tx
[23:11] <kanliot> i'm sure there's one somewhere
[23:15] <Unit193> It's not -cp, it's -jar
[23:15] <kanliot> he left
[23:16] <Unit193> I know, but now so do you. :P


[00:09] <dax> Or, you know, I went afk for half an hour.
[00:09] <dax> also, there wasn't anything pending, that I saw...?
[00:10] <dax> just got my car back from the shop, several hundred dollars poorer than i was before that half hour :(
[00:10] <daftykins> i'm generalising to the last 10 years there, not specific
[00:10] <daftykins> and ouch, glad i've been able to get by without cars.
[00:11] <dax> yeah, i wish i was there. i got this one for free from the parents when they moved, but i i'm up to thousands of dollars in repairs now and it's only 8 years old, thinking of ditching it
[00:12] <dax> anyways. if it's a general comment, I still don't really understand it
[00:13] <dax> unless it was you-plural, in which case i will agree that some ubuntu ops do have that mentality, yes
[00:13] <dax> i like to think i personally manage to annoy both sides of that :P
[00:16] <daftykins> too late for me to carry this thread on to be honest
[00:16] <daftykins> been out for a meal with pals tonight ^_^
[05:23] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:45] <OerHeks> sorry lotuspsychje, sometimes i have to ..
[05:45] <OerHeks> :-D
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> im used to idles no sweat
[05:46]  * OerHeks rm sweat
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> haha
[05:49] <lotuspsychje> lol
[06:23] <ducasse> \o
[06:54] <OerHeks> ~~~~~~/\~~~~~\o/~~~~~
[06:55] <ducasse> :)
[11:54] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:37] <daftykins> \o
[14:28] <DJones> Is it just me, or is the correct answer to this question, "There isn't, you shouldn't"
[14:28] <DJones> Guest13> Whats the best way to do automatic updates these days on production servers?
[14:29] <daftykins> yep definitely
[14:29] <daftykins> although ubuntu server does offer auto updates at install time
[14:29] <daftykins> so that must be a faker running another distro
[14:29] <DJones> Guess so, quit straight after with a max sendque exceeded message
[14:31] <daftykins> heh
[14:42] <EriC^^> wow one user updated the bios and the uefi is all screwy
[14:42] <EriC^^> efibootmgr -v No BootOrder is set; firmware will attempt recovery
[14:43] <EriC^^> "efibootmgr: Could not set BootOrder: No such file or directory"
[14:43] <EriC^^> ( hp laptop )
[14:43] <daftykins> wiped all its' boot entries? nasty
[14:43] <EriC^^> nope boot entries are all there, all 1trillion of them
[14:43] <daftykins> D:
[14:44] <EriC^^> but it won't modify the boot order or boot anything
[14:44] <EriC^^> i think though acer has the worse motherboard stuff
[14:44] <daftykins> load defaults for fun?
[14:44] <EriC^^> some guy apparently had to downgrade his bios for it to boot ubuntu's live usb O.o
[14:44] <EriC^^> worth a shot i guess
[14:45] <EriC^^> i copied the shimx64.efi to the default paths for efi files, still wouldn't boot
[14:45] <EriC^^> i'm living with the legacy myself
[14:46] <EriC^^> since the hp motherboard bug
[14:46] <EriC^^> hehe
[14:46] <daftykins> no harm in running legacy :>
[14:50] <EriC^^> yeah it's only marginally slower to boot, same thing basically
[14:51] <ducasse> EriC^^: i actually saw this after upgrading to xenial. wily's efibootmgr worked, but every time i try to make modifications in 16.04 i get that "firmware will attempt recovery" thing.
[14:52] <EriC^^> odd
[14:52] <EriC^^> does it also say missing variables for boot order?
[14:52] <ducasse> yeah, i was thinking of looking into it further and filing a bug, but haven't had the time.
[14:52] <EriC^^> i copied over the grubx64.efi files to the default ones now and told him to reset the bios to defaults
[14:53] <EriC^^> that's odd
[14:53] <ducasse> well, the firmware recovers on reboot and everything is ok, but i'm unable to change the order for example.
[14:54] <EriC^^> this one seems odd
[14:54] <EriC^^> hp usually loads when you copy the the efi files on the windows ones
[14:55] <EriC^^> then again it said "uefi (experimental)" i wonder how old the laptop is
[14:55] <EriC^^> hp probook 450
[14:58] <ducasse> no idea, but the "experimental" tag looks dangerous...
[15:00] <EriC^^> not that old it seems, 2012
[15:00] <EriC^^> maybe they just want to look edgy
[15:02] <EriC^^> it worked
[15:57] <daftykins> EriC^^: found your notes from the folks - http://i.imgur.com/5c404Sn.jpg
[16:10] <EriC^^> lol
[16:10] <EriC^^> :D
[16:29] <EriC^> updating the lenovo laptop :D
[16:29] <EriC^> damn this keyboard, it's like paper thin
[16:32] <daftykins> ah one of the cheapy business ones?
[16:33] <daftykins> i'm waiting for the new Windows 10 which should be out in 30 mins or so ;)
[16:33] <EriC^> g50-80
[16:33] <EriC^> nice
[16:36] <EriC^> lenovo uptime 8 days :D
[16:37] <daftykins> o0
[16:40] <EriC^> did you see the latest bourne movie?
[16:41] <daftykins> nope!
[16:41] <EriC^> me neither
[16:41] <EriC^> supposed to be good
[16:44] <daftykins> our local cinema is quite lacking :)
[16:45] <EriC^> i'm watching a lot from the internet
[16:53] <ducasse> EriC^: just tried a wily live image on my desktop, and that efibootmgr does not trigger the "firmware will attempt recovery" thing... wondering whether to upgrade the firmware or just use the uefi shell to manage boot entries.
[16:54] <EriC^> hmm
[16:54] <ducasse> really odd.
[16:55] <EriC^> which laptop is it?
[16:55] <ducasse> not laptop, desktop. self-build, asus z97-pro.
[16:56] <EriC^> aha
[16:57] <ducasse> ?
[16:57] <EriC^> what do you think daftykins ?
[16:58] <ducasse> there is a newer firmware, but i'm hesitant of flashing it since this might be an efibootmgr problem, not firmware.
[16:59] <EriC^> right
[17:00] <EriC^> do bios updates usually go fine?
[17:00] <EriC^> i've never done one myself
[17:00] <EriC^> kind of sounds shady updating the firmware itself
[17:00] <ducasse> the odds are tiny that something will happen, but i _cannot_ brick this box.
[17:01] <ducasse> i've never had a problem before, but i've only updated firmwares to fix specific problems that i know have been fixed.
[17:01] <ducasse> s/know have/knew had/
[17:03] <EriC^> if you absolutely can't brick the box i'd keep using the uefi shell i guess
[17:04] <ducasse> that's what i'm thinking. i'll also take down a log of what happens with both versions of efibootmgr and file a bug, i think. sounds reasonable?
[17:04] <EriC^> yeah
[17:05] <ducasse> could be a regression or something, i'm sure the devs have some idea what to do.
[17:05] <EriC^> yup
[17:13] <daftykins> sorry was in a game *reads up*
[17:14] <daftykins> ducasse: no harm in backing up the current version and trying, but if things work and all you see is extra text - i think i'm missing the problem
[17:16] <ducasse> daftykins: well, whenever i try to modify the boot order for instance, efibootmgr seems to reset some firmware variables, and i get thrown into the uefi boot manager on the next boot. the firmware recovers, but i'm still unable to modify firmware variables.
[17:19] <daftykins> how often do you change boot order o0
[17:21] <ducasse> i did recently, when swapping root ssd. this machine is also used for testing dev releases etc, so it happens that i need to.
[17:22] <ducasse> plus, i haven't tried adding entries with this version, but deleting them also was problematic - it just reappeared.
[17:22] <daftykins> hmm i would've thought such tasks suit virtualisation more
[17:24] <ducasse> i'm on the xubuntu-testers team, and they really need tests on bare metal.
[17:25] <ducasse> it doesn't really matter why i need it, this should still not happen :)
[17:29] <daftykins> sometimes context aids understanding though
[17:29] <daftykins> i'm not too up on my boot process as EriC^^ is :>
[17:32] <ducasse> sure, i understand that. one thing is that my firmware still has the entries from the old root disk since they reappear when i try to delete them, and i can't modify boot order to try the current entry first. so, i have to use the built-in boot manager on every single boot. i can fix this with the uefi shell, but i want to record what happens and file a bug first...


[03:55] <xubuntu09w> Hi I use Kate under Xubuntu 15.04. It does not save/restore current session/recent files on exit/start and does not import highl. templates. It seems not to use ~/.kde/share/config at all
[03:56] <holstein> shouldnt be anything "breaking" that from xubuntu.. are you seeing that config file? have you tried as another user?
[04:27] <xubuntu09w> Kate saves its sessions in $HOME/.config/session. But it does not restore them. Under a new user, it keeps the "recent files" list between logouts. Not as the original user.
[04:27] <holstein> xubuntu09w: i would look at my users settings, then, if its isolated to that user.. could be, something you have brought from an older version? another install? etc
[04:31] <xubuntu09w> This was a clean install of 15.04. In Kate I switched on session saving and recent files list 30 entries.
[04:32] <xubuntu09w> Just tried to open Help for Kate. This might contain some hints:  Cannot talk to klauncher: The name org.kde.klauncher5 was not provided by any .service files
[04:33] <holstein> i would blow the relevant configs away, if its working as another user..
[04:33] <holstein> you can always save them, and revert, if you want..
[09:10] <user2e> hello everyone,trying to save modifications done in terminal to a file and can't get out of editing mode (ctrl+x) won't do it
[09:14] <knome> which file?
[09:16] <user2e> thanks knome,file i edited is /etc/xdrp/startwm.sh
[09:16] <user2e> using gnu nano
[09:17] <knome> how did you edit it?
[09:17] <knome> which command did you issue?
[09:18] <user2e> did echo xfce4-session >~/.xsession and then
[09:19] <user2e> nano /etc/xrdp/startwm.sh
[09:19] <knome> you'll need sudo in order to be able to edit that file
[09:19] <user2e> ok,how do i exit nano now if you can tell me
[09:19] <knome> ctrl+x
[09:19] <knome> and see what nano saus
[09:19] <knome> *says
[09:20] <user2e> it says save modifed? Y N then i choose Y and just go back to last options,won't exit
[09:20] <knome> yes... since you still can't save the modifications, you should just quit
[09:20] <user2e> oh ok
[09:20] <user2e> was concerned quitting may mess it up
[09:20] <user2e> thanks again knome will try again using sudo before the commands.
[09:21] <knome> you only need it for the last one
[09:21] <knome> don't use sudo when you don't need to
[09:21] <user2e> ok
[09:24] <user2e> still won't let me exit,did sudo nano /etc/xrdp/startwm.sh
[09:25] <knome> so... what does it say now then?
[09:25] <user2e> same thing in gnu nano,ctrl+x then Y and it won't exit,only option is ctrl+c to cancel
[09:26] <knome> that's because ctrl+x isn't "save and quit"
[09:27] <knome> what does nano say after you press "Y"?
[09:27] <knome> the best advice i can give you is... pay attention to what you are doing, and think with your own brains
[09:27] <knome> if you blindly follow a tutorial or somebody helping you, you'll never learn
[09:29] <user2e> ok,was likely trying to save time on this will try and do as you suggest,new to linux and will read on the other options like append prepand dos format and others.
[09:29] <knome> that's likely not necessary though
[09:29] <knome> (just try hitting enter)
[09:29] <user2e> lol
[09:30] <user2e> thanks man,that's all it was
[09:30] <knome> sure
[09:30] <user2e> have a nice day :) bye
[09:30] <knome> bye
[20:26] <spicypixel> I've got some ghost items in my menu that the menu editor doesn't list, and have been apt-get purged but still show (minus the icons)
[20:26] <spicypixel> any way to force rebuild the app launcher menu?
[20:42] <knome> spicypixel, it's likely that the desktop files (which are used to build the items) are invalid
[20:42] <knome> this is why menulibre doesn't show them
[20:43] <spicypixel> yeah I've found them and removed them
[20:43] <knome> the menu should update automatically
[20:43] <knome> if it doesn't, then you likely have some desktop files left somewhere
[20:44] <spicypixel> it did
[20:44] <spicypixel> thanks
[20:44] <knome> no problem
[21:55] <hylian> hello all
[21:56] <knome> hello.
[22:12] <xubuntu97w> hello !
[22:12] <knome> hello
[22:12] <xubuntu97w> I have a question about tar.gz files
[22:13] <xubuntu97w> I'm a beginner i the xubuntu word
[22:13] <xubuntu97w> how to install a software with the extension .tar.gz?
[22:13] <xubuntu97w> in xubuntu?
[22:14] <knome> is that software not available in the software repositories?
[22:14] <xubuntu97w> yes ans no
[22:14] <xubuntu97w> the software is Geary
[22:14] <xubuntu97w> but the version in the software center is 0.6
[22:14] <ochosi> there is even a PPA for geary if you're not happy with the version provided in the official channels
[22:14] <xubuntu97w> and the latest version is 0.10
[22:15] <ochosi> that would be much better than trying to build geary yourself (which is what you have to do with a tar.gz archive)
[22:15] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:15] <xubuntu97w> If I'm not wrong, I can have it from teh PPA but for the 0.6 version
[22:15] <xubuntu97w> not the 0.10
[22:16] <ochosi> lmgtfy: https://launchpad.net/~yorba/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
[22:17] <ochosi> xubuntu97w: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=geary+ppa+ubuntu
[22:18] <xubuntu97w> thank a lot
[22:19] <ochosi> np
[22:19] <xubuntu97w> If I use your method, I will be able to install the latest version 0.10?
[22:19] <ochosi> have you used PPAs before?
[22:19] <xubuntu97w> yes 1 or 2 times..
[22:20] <ochosi> right, then you can simply check what versions of geary are available for the version of ubuntu/xubuntu you're using on that launchpad site i linked above
[22:21] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:22] <xubuntu97w> okkkk... understood now
[22:23] <xubuntu97w> i can have the 0.10
[22:23] <ochosi> there you go
[22:23] <xubuntu97w> any advice on a book or internet site if I want some informations about .tar.gz files??
[22:24] <xubuntu97w> well explained of course...
[22:24] <knome> xubuntu97w, .tar.gz is basically just a container format (like .zip), there is no single way how they should be dealt with
[22:25] <xubuntu97w> so.. If I download a tar.gz... how do I uncompress and install the software ?
[22:25] <xubuntu97w> I had a quick look on internet and it looks a bit compicated..
[22:25] <ochosi> the general advice is not to install software by hand if you don't know what you're doing
[22:26] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:26] <ochosi> the software center is there for a reason
[22:26] <knome> as i just said, there is no "one stop guide" for that, it depends
[22:26] <xubuntu97w> so better to use the PPA if possible..
[22:26] <xubuntu97w> I guess..
[22:26] <ochosi> yeah, or ideally just the general repositories
[22:26] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:26] <ochosi> even with PPAs you're installing software from untrusted sources, so to speak
[22:27] <xubuntu97w> so how to know if I install a trusted version if I use PPA??
[22:27] <xubuntu97w> trusted source...
[22:27] <knome> you don't.
[22:27] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:27] <knome> PPA's are never considered trusted sources
[22:27] <ochosi> repositories == trusted. anything else == untrusted
[22:29] <xubuntu97w> last question..
[22:29] <xubuntu97w> I have Xubuntu installed alonside windows 8.1
[22:30] <xubuntu97w> I will ike to mount the windows folders automatically mounted in Xunbuntu..
[22:30] <xubuntu97w> is it possible?
[22:30] <xubuntu97w> I mean each time I start xubuntu...
[22:31] <knome> yes.
[22:31] <xubuntu97w> how?
[22:31] <knome> i thought that was the last question :(
[22:31] <xubuntu97w> it is...  :)
[22:32] <knome> anyway, Unit193 can help
[22:32] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:33] <xubuntu97w> I will contact him...
[22:33] <knome> just wait here :P
[22:33] <xubuntu97w> thanks a lot for your time
[22:33] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:34] <Unit193> Generally speaking, I'd say using fstab is the method to do this.  There may be some GUI way.
[22:34] <Unit193> Hello, please do keep it in channel, xubuntu97w.
[22:34] <xubuntu97w> ok
[22:35] <xubuntu97w> fstab? ok
[22:35] <xubuntu97w> I will check on google
[22:35] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab should do it.
[22:37] <xubuntu97w> thanks for the doc.
[22:37] <xubuntu97w> I will have a look and will come back to you if needed.
[22:37] <Unit193> It's not the easiest way, you could in theory maybe get gigolo to automount.
[22:38] <xubuntu97w> the easiest way between fstab and gigolo is ?
[22:39] <xubuntu97w> fstab?
[22:40] <Unit193> If gigolo can do it, it is a GUI rather than just a file to edit.
[22:42] <xubuntu97w> thanks for your time guys..


[18:26] <vila> cjwatson, wgrant: I'm curious about the following. I realize lp builders had a "bad hangover" to begin this year. And that many bets are off about the performance impact from many recent fixes. Yet, I seem to remember lp estimated times for builds to be accurate at the hour scale. For several days now, they are completely off though. Not progressing for hours, repeating the same (obviously wrong) estimation.Do you know why ?
[18:27] <wgrant> vila: The build start time estimation relies on the assumption that no new builds jump the queue in front of you. Do you have a particular build in mind?
[18:45] <vila> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~vila/+recipe/byot-releases
[18:46] <vila> wgrant: just jumped from 17mins to 29mins
[18:47] <vila> wgrant: ha right, and there are way more jumpers these days. Makes sense.
[21:28]  * juliank is currently trying to add Valid-Until support to Launchpad because he thinks it's needed. Untested branch in https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/launchpad/valid-until - diff so far in http://paste.ubuntu.com/26491591/
[21:28] <juliank> I'll try to actually get a test launchpad instance set up tomorrow or later this week and run the tests.
[21:29] <juliank> This mostly illustrates the idea :)
[21:30] <juliank> If that actually (or eventually) works and we decide to roll it out, I'd probably start with bionic-backports as a test stage, as nobody uses that yet, so we can check weekly regeneration without affecting much :D
[21:30] <juliank> or well, whatever is devel at that time :D
[21:42] <juliank> cjwatson: I must say that the code is quite easy to read
[21:42] <juliank> I mostly just grepped advertise_by_hash and replicated that into write_valid_until :D
[21:42] <cjwatson> I'd make the interval a configuration item (see lib/lp/services/config/schema-lazr.conf) and maybe also try to work out a way to make it configurable on a per-suite rather than per-series basis
[21:43] <cjwatson> "make it configurable" whether to do this at all, I mean
[21:43] <juliank> cjwatson: So a set of pockets would do that, right?
[21:43] <juliank> pockets_with_valid_until in distroseries, essentially
[21:43] <cjwatson> I guess two configuration items, one for the Valid-Until period and one for how long before its expiry we regenerate
[21:44] <cjwatson> Yes, I think something like that would be worthwhile for finer control
[21:44] <juliank> Right
[21:44] <cjwatson> juliank: Also initialize-distroseries needs to copy the configuration to new series
[21:44] <juliank> I guess we can just define valid_until_period instead of write_valid_until in days
[21:44] <juliank> it does now
[21:44] <cjwatson> And a bunch of other things I imagine we'll pick up :)
[21:45] <cjwatson> Ah yes, I was looking at an earlier diff
[21:45] <juliank> This is the first time I looked at LP code
[21:45] <juliank> So all you see happened within an hour of me first looking at it :D
[21:45] <cjwatson> archivepublisher is very probably the most accessible bit for an APT developer, and for almost nobody else :-)
[21:45] <juliank> It's super easy
[21:46] <juliank> or well it looks super easy
[21:46] <juliank> valid_until_expiry_threshold
[21:46] <juliank> valid_until_period
[21:46] <juliank> valid_until_pockets
[21:46] <cjwatson> The tests for this general area are a bit clunky by the standards of other LP code (they're very functional-testy, if you see what I mean, lots of "set up universe then run universe for a while" kinds of things), but should be manageable
[21:46] <juliank> I guess these are useful option names
[21:47] <juliank> Unless you want to configure period per pocket
[21:47] <cjwatson> I don't think that's necessary
[21:47] <juliank> valid_until_expiry_threshold and valid_until_period in days I guess
[21:48] <juliank> could make it seconds, though
[21:48] <cjwatson> We have configuration items with times in seconds, minutes, days
[21:48] <juliank> ah
[21:48] <cjwatson> Days should be OK I think
[21:48]  * juliank will take a look
[21:49] <juliank> yeah
[21:49] <cjwatson> Nice start, anyway - thanks for working on this
[21:50] <cjwatson> isReleaseFileOutdated might want to be careful of the case where there isn't a Release file for the suite yet
[21:50] <cjwatson> I have a sort of an itch about the way it parses the existing file rather than going off DB state, but it may be the most robust approach here
[21:50] <juliank> ack
[21:51] <juliank> cjwatson: I'm not sure date is in the db? It just generates the releasefile with datetime.now()
[21:51] <juliank> um, utcnow()
[21:51] <cjwatson> Yeah, it's not right now
[21:51] <cjwatson> What you have is probably fine, just thought I'd mention my initial itch :)
[21:52] <cjwatson> (Well - it's going to end up in the ArchiveFile table soon for InRelease-by-hash, but not in a form that's particularly useful for this)
[21:52] <juliank> cjwatson: InRelease-by-hash will be epic
[21:52] <cjwatson> Last stage of that is https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/inrelease-by-hash/+merge/336675
[21:52] <cjwatson> I think it will just about avoid conflicting with yours
[21:53] <juliank> yup seems ok
[21:56] <juliank> cjwatson: I guess I'll continue tomorrow, but these are all very helpful comments :)
[21:57] <juliank> cjwatson: The code in apt for checking that Date is not in the future is basically ready too, BTW. I hope it'll land for bionic :)
[21:57] <juliank> If both changes land in time for that, we end up with a strict 2 week validity period for Release files
[21:57] <juliank> which would be awesome, IMO
[21:58] <juliank> s/2 week/<n> day/
[22:13] <cjwatson> juliank: let me know when you've got near the point where you want to actually start running tests - I can help with setup, and you really don't want to be running the full suite if you don't have to, so I can offer advice on which segments to run
[22:14] <juliank> cjwatson: thanks :)
[22:14] <cjwatson> (full suite is 40min or so in buildbot, several hours on my laptop)
[22:15] <juliank> wow