[13:03] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:03] <pauljw_vm> hi BluesKaj
[13:04] <BluesKaj> Hi pauljw_vm
[13:04] <pauljw_vm> :)
[13:04] <BluesKaj> kvm-qemu?
[13:06] <pauljw_vm> virtualbox
[13:09] <BluesKaj> ok
[13:13] <pauljw_vm> i did try kvm-qemu, but prefer vb. :)
[13:30] <OerHeks> what bank allows personel use mint?
[13:34] <DArqueBishop> OerHeks: that's just one of many things about his story that make me wonder if he's trolling us.
[13:35] <BluesKaj> DArqueBishop, who's story ?
[13:35] <DArqueBishop> BluesKaj: pleaseeheelp in #ubuntu main.
[13:37] <BluesKaj> DArqueBishop, perhaps , but I was having a similar problem with X a few days ago, but this was on yakkety
[13:38]  * DArqueBishop nods.
[13:38] <OerHeks> oke, i am still on 15.10 too ...
[13:39] <OerHeks>  :-D
[13:39] <BluesKaj> never did figure out what it was , a reboot worked
[13:39] <BluesKaj> didn't bother with logs , there are so many little bugs happening
[13:40] <DArqueBishop> OerHeks: yeah, but 15.10 isn't EOL. ;-)
[13:41] <DArqueBishop> If I'm running a Linux distro on a laptop for work, you can be sure I'll be running a version that isn't EOL.
[15:38] <nacc> OerHeks: DArqueBishop: you've got a week :)
[15:40] <DArqueBishop> nacc: the Ubuntu VM I have running is 16.04. ;-)
[15:40] <nacc> DArqueBishop: :)
[15:40] <nacc> have we seen a lot more noise in #ubuntu today with 16.04.1 out?
[15:48] <DArqueBishop> It seems to be the same as before.
[15:49] <nacc> good :)
[16:03] <OerHeks> no real 14.04 upgrade issues yet, brace yourselves
[17:20] <pauljw_vm> just received my email from System76 advising me that 16.04.1 is now available and approved for upgrade.  Not going to do it, but thought I'd pass that along... :)
[17:22] <Bashing-om> pauljw_vm: Yepper .. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes#Official_flavours . Awaiting all the mirror sites to sync up .
[17:23] <pauljw_vm> :)
[17:27] <BluesKaj> yeah, today is upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04 day, officially
[17:29] <BluesKaj> 16.04.1 actually
[17:31] <Bashing-om> gonna wait some more to install 16.04.1 .. 1) Have not purchased the SSD, 2) Wait for the pounding on the servers to lessen .
[17:31] <BluesKaj> rain, hail and wind warnings here...it's so dark I can barely read the KB
[17:32] <Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 94 F (34 C) ~ Clear ~ Heat index: 110 F (43 C) ~ Humidity: 60% ~ Alert: Heat Advisory ~ Observed: Thu 21, 11:56
[17:33] <BluesKaj>  it was 29C , dropped to 25 very quickly
[17:33] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, ugh!
[17:34] <Bashing-om> The AC is my new best friend :)
[17:35] <BluesKaj> yup, can't live without it
[17:37] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: We are at the end of the power grid .. and there are those times there is no enough amperage left to run the AC .. yuk !
[17:38] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, bummer :/
[17:39] <ducasse> why is it that people who can't use a pastebin think they are qualified to 'tune' their systems?
[17:40] <pauljw_vm> lol
[17:40] <BluesKaj> we don't see temps much over 30C/87F
[17:43] <Bashing-om> Honestly, I had some experience with softwares when I migrated to (k)ubuntu; I have broke my 'buntus a bunch re-learning .
[17:45] <ducasse> Bashing-om: remember when i started out with slackware, repeatedly broke my system in truly horrible ways - great learning experience :)
[17:46] <pauljw_vm> same when i started
[17:46] <ducasse> emptied out /dev once, that was fun.
[17:48] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I also messed about with slackware as a server install .. - a friend introduced me to (k)ubuntu desktop .. I have never had other thoughts than 'buntu since . So much easier .
[17:49] <ducasse> agree, it's a lot more streamlined. i still love slackware, though.
[17:50] <pauljw_vm> i couldn't get thru my thick skull the importance of sticking with what was in the repos...  broke pclinuxos so many times i can't count, then i learned how to build from source and was able to play without total destruction.  built vmware and have been hooked on vm's ever since.
[17:50] <BluesKaj> .discovered kubuntu in 2005 , stuck with the kde desktop ever since , even on other distros
[17:51] <Bashing-om> Me minimalistic minded .. KISS .. Only have what I use .. and use what I have .
[17:52] <pauljw_vm> nothin' wrong with that
[17:53] <EriC^^> hi
[17:53] <EriC^^> all
[17:53] <Bashing-om> Thus far, I have been fortunate .. or unlucky .. Have yet to have the need in 'buntu to compile from source .
[17:53] <pauljw_vm> hey EriC^^
[17:54] <EriC^^> hey pauljw_vm :)
[17:54] <pauljw_vm> Bashing-om, i haven't either
[17:55] <Bashing-om> EriC^^ EriC^^ , he's our man .., comes to EFI booting ... if he can not do it .. no one can .
[17:55] <EriC^^> lol Bashing-om
[17:55] <EriC^^> you are great poet
[17:56] <Bashing-om> pauljw_vm: I have grown to learn .. installed applications .. if there is a need " it's in the repo " .
[17:56] <EriC^^> a little exaggerative but poetic and nice, ty
[17:57] <BluesKaj> hey EriC^^ keeping the new recruits happy ?
[17:57] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Plagurized (sp) .. I think I can get away with that in this instance .
[17:57] <pauljw_vm> Bashing-om, i agree, linux has come a long way in the last decade.
[17:58] <EriC^^> BluesKaj: not really, i haven't been that active in the channel lately though i miss it
[18:01] <BluesKaj> EriC^^, guess I should have said, new recruits in #ubuntu
[18:02] <EriC^^> BluesKaj: yeah that's what i meant :)
[18:02] <BluesKaj> ok :-)
[18:04] <BluesKaj> been mucking about with a rpi 3 here, can't make up my mind what to use it for ...mostly experimentation with different OSs so far, but nothing really grabs my interest up to this point
[18:06] <ducasse> BluesKaj: did you look at riscos? i thought it was kind of charming :) (in a retro way)
[18:07] <BluesKaj> perhaps make it a kodi box, but my vpn .ovpn config files error out and I don't want the exposure that the addons give your IP
[18:08] <BluesKaj> ducasse, was checking riscos yesterday but it's over a yr old
[18:09] <ducasse> BluesKaj: they're probably short on developers..
[18:10] <BluesKaj> librelec isn't nearly as good at connecting to sites , over 80% of them fail
[18:10] <ducasse> i use an rpi2 for kodi, too bad about lack of h.265 support, though.
[18:10] <BluesKaj> kodi by itselfd is much better in my experience
[18:11] <ducasse> what do you run kodi on? ubuntu?
[18:12] <BluesKaj> I'm thinking of going back to raspbian with kodion it
[18:13] <BluesKaj> I had kodi on kubuntu for a while, but it really is a clunky app IMO
[18:14] <ducasse> i've been thinking of some sort of minimal setup with just autologin + kodi, but openelec works well enough so far.
[18:17] <BluesKaj> i prefer to use a vpn with kodi ,. sure hope I can fix that version problem I have with .ovpn files on raspbian
[18:18] <ducasse> i can get that, but mine just reads files from my zfs server.
[18:30] <BluesKaj> I just wanrt kodi for internrt tv feeds , i prefer to have direct access to te outboard media filed drive.
[18:30] <BluesKaj> files
[18:31] <BluesKaj> ...it's dark in here the thunderclouds are sticking around
[18:34] <OerHeks> feel the force, luke
[18:35] <ducasse> i rarely use kodi for internet tv, but it seems to work. we were expecting thunder here from today and out the week, but it's still fine..
[18:38] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Buy them books, send them to school ( tan2 )... and what do they do ???
[18:41] <pauljw_vm> eat the covers...
[18:41] <ducasse> Bashing-om: this is like pulling teeth...
[18:49] <Bashing-om> Yeah ,, got one similar on the forum .. been 3 days just to get an edit to grub .
[18:51] <ducasse> "just autostart it from the openbox config" - "what?"
[18:51] <ducasse> wth do you mean, "what"?
[18:51] <ducasse> it's like trying to tell my cat not to walk on the keyboard.
[18:55] <ducasse> ...and then he just left.
[18:55] <OerHeks> bye cat
[18:55] <ducasse> :)
[18:56] <OerHeks> upgrade disappears, yeah right
[18:58] <ducasse> much like the famous "i did nothing, this just happened"
[18:59] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I go through the trouble to hunt up a opennox tutorial, and come back .. gone ! .. sheeshhh . Oh well .
[19:00] <ducasse> Bashing-om: me too, i was just about to paste link on openbox autostart...
[19:01] <Bashing-om> Good exercise, I reckon ..
[19:01] <ducasse> people _really_ don't like being told to rtfm, but in some cases that is the answer they need.
[19:03] <Bashing-om> Well .. gotta go to town .. be back soonest to the keyboard .. pick this back up then .
[19:03] <ducasse> have fun :)
[19:12] <BluesKaj> ok , switching to my stable install ...brb
[20:30] <nacc> Ben64: sorry for their rudeness
[20:30] <Ben64> who?
[20:31] <nacc> Ben64: bulletxt|2
[20:31] <Ben64> ah
[20:31] <Ben64> people think upgrades are magical and will never cause anything to break
[20:32] <nacc> yep
[20:32] <Ben64> i wouldn't want to put myself through 10.04 -> 12.04 -> 14.04 -> 16.04 right now
[20:34] <ducasse> Ben64: that sounds like an excellent opportunity for a fresh install...
[20:35] <Ben64> that was my suggestion exactly
[20:40] <OerHeks> it would prove reliability
[21:13] <daftykins> are we finding 16.04's issues to have calmed down yet?
[21:22] <OerHeks> sure, only unusual man-made-issues tonight
[21:25] <daftykins> :D
[21:25] <ducasse> daftykins: $deity, sometimes i really want to do what got you banned.
[21:26] <daftykins> XD
[21:26] <daftykins> i like to use Tux in place of that variable :)
[21:29] <ducasse> daftykins: some people are just impossible to get through to, and it's worse when they hardly speak english...
[21:30] <daftykins> mmm, it might sound bias but i don't even touch the ones that are a foreign language speaker, or worse yet translating IRC.
[21:32] <ducasse> daftykins: i'm not a native english speaker myself :) but some people can't express themselves in english at all, but insist on using the english channel and get angry when you don't understand them.
[21:33] <daftykins> *nod* i really meant those that show a lack of ability
[21:33] <daftykins> those that learn English as a foreign language probably know it better than the native speakers
[21:34] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Menawhile .. 2 weeks later : https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2329956 .. My patience is wearing real thin . I gather myself .. and try try again .
[21:35]  * daftykins takes a glance
[21:36] <daftykins> Bashing-om: i like your avatar :D
[21:39] <daftykins> my my, that is a messy one
[21:39] <daftykins> "i did all these things, then there were colours on the screen and now i'm scared... hold me?"

[21:57]  * daftykins chuckles
[21:57] <daftykins> time to throw that fish back in the river
[21:57] <daftykins> let the bears further down have a go ;)
[21:58] <ducasse> i've got to go to bed anyway, two minutes till midnight, and i was up early.
[22:00] <daftykins> sleep well!
[22:00] <daftykins> i wish you pleasant dreams of cooperative helpees
[22:00] <ducasse> thanks :) ttyl.


[03:09] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:28] <gry> hey lotuspsychje
[06:15] <ducasse> good morning
[06:24] <gry> good morning, ducasse
[06:25] <ducasse> hiya there
[07:03] <lotuspsychje> hey gry
[10:18] <marcoagpinto> heya
[17:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/07/08/google-is-teaming-up-with-ubuntu-to-bring-flutter-apps-to-linux/
[17:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> This is great
[17:19] <joelcrump> i read about that a bit ago
[17:19] <joelcrump> it sounds interesting
[17:19] <The_LoudSpeaker> Where can I test it?
[17:20] <joelcrump> https://ubuntu.com//blog/canonical-enables-linux-desktop-app-support-with-flutter <-- this might have the instructions, i didn't read the entire thing
[20:24] <oerheks> I joined cybersecurity https://twitter.com/msftsecurity/status/1280532025817079808   to ______  prepare a windows iso on usb
[20:25] <daftykins> o0
[20:29] <joelcrump> i download those ISOs in case someone i know needs me to make a usb drive for them, but definitely not for me to use
[21:53] <tomreyn> hi TJ-, hoope you're doing well!
[21:54] <tomreyn> qqqhhh in #ubuntu is affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1865293 - I noted coment #21 - do you think the acpi_osi trick could work there?
[21:56] <tomreyn> (qqqhhh is not one of those on the bug report, rather they posted to https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/hne80o/linux_freezes_r5_3600_at_idle/
[21:56] <oerheks> look at https://superuser.com/questions/1547977/amd-ryzen-5-3600-ubuntu-20-04-problems
[21:56] <oerheks> does all core show up?
[21:57] <tomreyn> oerheks: "all core", what do you mean?
[21:57] <oerheks> " with kernel parameter acpi=off but now system recognize only 1 core"
[21:57] <tomreyn> well, acpi=off is nonsense, i guess
[21:57] <oerheks> oh i see, type, all cores.
[21:58] <oerheks> yeah, it is not smart.
[21:59] <tomreyn> but maybe pretending to be windows in acpi terms would help
[21:59] <tomreyn> because those stability problems always only affect linux apparently
[22:02] <oerheks> he tried  "processor.max_cstate=1" too..
[22:02] <oerheks> i find no other bugreports and fixes..
[22:03] <tomreyn> you mean for this cpu?
[22:04] <oerheks> cstate 5 and cstate 3 are mentioned too.. https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=245608
[22:05] <oerheks> i think you have more experience with ryzen than me :-(
[22:13] <daftykins> never forget being on current firmware to begin, also
[22:13] <oerheks> he said he did upgrade.
[22:17] <daftykins> hmm 4 DIMMs of 16GB 2666... wonder if there's enough juice going to those
[22:18] <daftykins> claims of memtest clean, but that's once loaded a tad
[22:21] <oerheks> good point
[23:26] <lotuspsychje> good morning


[18:12] <wookey> someone asked about elfutils on arm64 a few daysa go, but I've forgotten who. It's fixed now anyway: bugs.debian.org/753552
[18:15] <infinity> wookey: I already fixed it in Ubuntu.
[18:16] <infinity> wookey: (Based on that bug report)
[18:16] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elfutils/0.159-3ubuntu1


[10:07] <whereistimbo> Hi guys. I'm having trouble building pulseaudio deb from git branch remotes/pkg/applied/ubuntu/bionic, I'm using clean install of xubuntu 18.04.2 with virtualbox, any help with recommended setup?
[13:05] <raviola> 	Hi guys. I'm having trouble building pulseaudio deb from git branch remotes/pkg/applied/ubuntu/bionic, I'm using clean install of xubuntu 18.04.2 with virtualbox, any help with recommended setup?
[13:07] <raviola> I need build pulseaudio deb package from source so I can debug it. But I have trouble to build it even in clean install
[13:07] <cjwatson> this is not me offering to help, but you probably stand a better chance of finding somebody to help you if you put a transcript of exactly what you've done and the resulting error messages on a pastebin (e.g. paste.ubuntu.com)
[13:08] <cjwatson> (please don't highlight me in responses)
[13:08] <raviola> Thanks cjwatson, however I think the fault is my part so I'd like to just redo the clean install in virtualbox
[13:08] <cjwatson> 14:08 <cjwatson> (please don't highlight me in responses)
[13:09] <cjwatson> anyway, if you don't show what the errors are then probably nobody will be able to help
[13:09] <cjwatson> so that would be your best way forward
[15:30] <sil2100> Laney: hey! A quick question - do you know if the latest version of britney2-ubuntu is used in production right now? Since I was thinking of maybe switching off dry-run mode from the SRU ADT thingy this week, it looks like it works as expected but still doesn't save the state apparently
[15:30] <sil2100> Laney: I think I fixed that though
[15:31] <sil2100> Laney: is the latest master in production now? Or is it simply the broken version still?
[15:32] <Laney> sil2100: what broken version?
[15:32] <Laney> every run does a 'git pull' from the branch
[15:33] <Laney> I didn't merge anything further from you yet if that's what you mean
[15:38] <sil2100> Ah, hmmm, so it's basically using the latest master
[15:38] <sil2100> Since I pushed 2 fix commits there, but maybe there's something broken somewhere else
[15:39] <sil2100> Laney: thanks, will look into what's up then o/
[15:39] <Laney> you can go onto the machine and look at 'git log' in there
[15:39] <sil2100> Laney: but isn't that on snakefruit?
[15:40] <Laney> yeah
[15:40] <Laney> can confirm the head is 1cbc21d25851bf5652663a434d20a2c671c59e54
[15:41] <sil2100> Laney: thanks!
[15:42]  * sil2100 looks into that
[16:36] <sil2100> Laney: aaaah, ok, forgot that when it's run in dry-run mode, the state file is simply not saved
[16:37] <sil2100> Laney: duuuh
[16:37] <sil2100> Laney: so ok, it will most probably work once we switch to normal mode of operations
[16:38] <sil2100> Laney: do you think we could switch dry-run off tomorrow?
[16:45] <Laney> sil2100: yeah, I think that should just happen if you commit the appropriate change to b1
[18:45] <ahasenack> is there a specific log file ownership/permissions policy for when we want the logs to be restricted?
[18:45] <ahasenack> I've seen some 0640 root:adm
[18:46] <ahasenack> or root:root 0600
[18:46] <ahasenack> also syslog:adm 0640
[18:46] <ahasenack> apport.log: 0640 root:adm
[18:46] <ahasenack> auth.log: 0640 syslog:adm
[18:46] <ahasenack> boot.log: 0600 root:root
[18:47] <ahasenack> syslog: 0640 syslog:adm
[18:48] <sarnold> ahasenack: hmm, I thought the policy manual dictated adm group for most logs, but don't see it on https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files#log-files
[18:48] <ahasenack> yeah, it talks about purging, but not ownership or permissions
[18:48] <ahasenack> even 10.9 just below


[01:46] <StevenK> xnox: I'll look at mpd after work.
[01:47] <xnox> StevenK: thanks a lot! =)
[04:23] <orbisvicis> per apt-cache policy apt seems to be ignoring my /etc/apt/preferences file w.r.t the priority of my local repository
[05:13] <orbisvicis> it was a quoting problem, ftr
[05:58] <pitti> Good morning
[06:33] <dholbach> good morning
[06:33] <pitti> hey dholbach, good morning! wie gehts?
[06:34] <dholbach> hey pitti - sehr gut - wie geht's Dir?
[06:34] <pitti> dholbach: prima, danke!
[07:06] <dholbach> Did anyone see anything like "Failed to create secure directory (/run/user/1000/pulse): Permission denied" on saucy recently?
[07:17] <pitti> dholbach: currently being discussed in bug 1197395
[07:17] <dholbach> ah, super
[07:17] <dholbach> thanks
[08:39] <pitti> infinity: do you have a minute for an SRU review? (bug 1184262, systemd-shim for saucy-proposed); it's causing suspend breakage for way too many people :/
[08:41] <pitti> brainwash: ^ FYI
[11:27] <pitti> bdmurray: ^ do you have time today to process the systemd-shim saucy SRU review?
[12:52] <doko> jamespage, maven ping
[12:54] <Laney> doko: did you see my gcc-4.8 ping yesterday?
[12:55] <doko> tjaalton, instead of using an old MIR, could you use a new one for the samba deps? ldb, faketime, libparse-yapp-perl ? (or maybe zul, jamespage)
[12:55] <doko> Laney, yes, is this urgent?
[12:55] <Laney> not as long as it doesn't migrate
[13:02] <jamespage> infinity, are you OK for me to submit that atomic linking fix back upstream for openvswitch?
[13:02] <jamespage> just sweeping up patches
[13:06] <tjaalton> doko: ok, I'll file one for ldb for starters..
[13:06] <doko> tjaalton, please open tasks for the others too
[13:06] <jamespage> tjaalton, please can you check in with zul - he's being doing the merge and mir stuff for samba
[13:06] <jamespage> not sure exactly how far he's got as yet
[13:08] <tjaalton> jamespage: there was no MIR for ldb at least
[13:09] <tjaalton> faketime has bug 1250102
[13:10] <tjaalton> subscribed ubuntu-mir
[13:33] <tjaalton> zul: I've filed a MIR for libparse-yapp-perl too https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1250466
[13:33] <tjaalton> doko: ^ that should be all of them
[13:33] <tjaalton> ldb is bug 1250463
[13:33] <doko> tjaalton, thanks
[13:33] <zul> tjaalton:  thanks
[13:54] <zul> how do you get something on the blacklist for merges.ubuntu.com?
[13:57] <cjwatson> zul: ask an archive admin to sync-blacklist it, but blacklisting isn't necessarily the right answer
[13:57] <cjwatson> zul: what in particular are you referring to?
[13:58] <zul> cjwatson:  i was looking at the list and we dont merge any of the openstack packaging from debian (so things like ceilometer and python-cinderclient, etc)
[13:58] <cjwatson> zul: That usually works out being a mistake in the long run
[13:59] <cjwatson> Usually when I run across that it's accompanied by swearing at the way Debian packaging improvements haven't been carried over into Ubuntu
[13:59] <cjwatson> So I'm pretty reluctant to entrench it
[14:00] <zul> cjwatson:  right but alot of the openstack debian packaging uses debconf which we dont consider an improvement and often broken
[14:00] <cjwatson> That doesn't mean other aspects aren't worth merging
[14:00] <zul> cjwatson:  sure
[14:00] <tseliot> stgraber: hi, can you have a look at bug #1250449 please? (new nvidia packages for trusty)
[14:00] <cjwatson> In particular Python module packages that are only maintained in Ubuntu usually end up being worse off IME
[14:05] <zul> cjwatson:  with regards to the merging  openstack packaging from debian we are often ahead so why dont they merge from us since the "packaging" style of the debian maintainer is not compatible with the stuff that we need to do
[14:07] <cjwatson> you're reasonably reliably ahead as long as the only metric you look at is the upstream version number
[14:08] <cjwatson> anyway, feel free to persuade some other archive admin, I'm not generally happy with blacklisting for this reason
[14:09] <jamespage> cjwatson, fortunately we also take into account peer review on every packaging commit and continual CI of packaging and deployment against upstream trunk and stable branches as well
[14:10] <cjwatson> like I say, I'm not going to agree on this, but you can try somebody else if you like :)
[14:10] <mitya57> zul: upstream OpenStack maintainer is usually friendly to Ubuntu and can even merge some Ubuntu-specific changes back, i.e. http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/blktap-dkms/news/20130322T121730Z.html
[14:10] <xnox> to me it seemed that debian is fairly actively up to date. But e.g. we packaged rc for release, and debian packaged final only.
[14:10] <cjwatson> I'm generally of the opinion that we should blacklist as little as possible
[14:10] <cjwatson> and that many of the blacklists we have so far have turned out to be trouble later
[14:11] <jamespage> cjwatson, fine - tbh is fairly moot anyway - by the time we get to first milestone for icehouse stuff won't appear on merges.u.c anyway
[14:11] <cjwatson> mainly because they tend to be maintenance-invisible
[14:12] <cjwatson> it's not a lack of review on the packaging changes that you *do* have that concerns me about this in general; it's invisibility of the patches you don't have that Debian does
[14:12] <cjwatson> and a general disdain for Debian
[14:12] <cjwatson> if they're doing it wrong, persuade them otherwise :)
[14:12] <jamespage> cjwatson, whoa - I never reflected that
[14:12] <jamespage> and I have tried :-(
[14:12] <cjwatson> it'll be better for everyone
[14:14] <cjwatson> there are packages I maintain where I disagree with the Debian maintainer about something; it just means a long-term delta, but not permanently ignoring them
[14:15] <jamespage> maybe a better way to have started this discussion would have been "we are divergent for a number of reasons on the openstack package set - whats the best way to manage this bearing in mind we will not ever quite sync up with debian"
[14:17] <cjwatson> my general opinion on that class of question is that it's perfectly OK to never quite sync up, but it's not clear to me that that means the long-term wise thing to do is to go it entirely alone
[14:18] <cjwatson> bearing in mind that long-term packaging divergence affects more than just one part of the archive; it can often have knock-on effects elsewhere with things like incomplete transitions
[14:18] <jamespage> cjwatson, we've been trying to figure out the best way to flow patches between Debian/Ubuntu but its really hard to track
[14:19] <jamespage> normally its a conversation in debian-openstack which works OK
[14:19] <cjwatson> frex some of the obsolete packages Debian has managed to remove entirely (e.g. python-central) are still stuck in Ubuntu because of a bunch of long-term-diverged or Ubuntu-local packages where people just haven't kept up
[14:19] <cjwatson> we lose out on archive-wide QA
[14:21] <cjwatson> in the case of Ubuntu, this is often particularly bad for packages that were once part of the Current Great Thing for a particular team but have since been abandoned, and this is really hard to track since by the nature of these things the teams who used to deal with them have now lost interest
[14:21] <cjwatson> unfortunately I see this pattern a fair bit
[14:21] <tjaalton> jamespage: infiltrate debian-openstack and maintain things there? :) /me runs..
[14:22] <jamespage> tjaalton, go look at the team membership list on alioth :-)
[14:22] <jamespage> like I said its hard to track....
[14:22] <tjaalton> can't, it's down :)
[14:23] <jamespage> tjaalton, forgot
[14:24] <jamespage> cjwatson, I can think of a few examples of that behaviour - yes
[14:35] <jamespage> doko, libjaxen fixed up to avoid maven - looking at testng next
[14:45] <jamespage> doko, think I can get rid of the testng requirement as well
[14:45] <jamespage> maybe
[14:50] <jamespage> doko, OK - once my upload of libhamcrest-java goes through testng can be demoted to universe
[14:50] <doko> \o/
[14:51]  * jamespage dodges the maven bullet again
[14:51] <jamespage> doko, it was referred to in one example that neither ships or is complied during package build...
[15:12] <infinity> jamespage: Woo!
[15:39] <xnox> Hm... are we going to have pypy in main =/
[15:42] <mitya57> For what?
[15:42] <seb128> dobey, hey, could you have a look to bug #1227277? that one seems like it might be a bug in s-c and not in gnome-menus/webkit
[15:43] <jamespage> infinity, Woo! == yes please go ahead?
[15:49] <doko> jamespage, zul: please can you subscribe to ldb and libparse-yapp-perl (samba deps)?
[15:49] <jamespage> doko, ack
[15:50] <zul> doko:  done
[15:50] <doko> thanks, promoting
[15:50] <zul> doko:  cool thanks
[15:51] <jamespage> doko, done
[15:55] <doko> barry, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg, could you look at the python related component mismatches? e.g. pypy shows up for simplejson again
[15:55] <barry> doko: sure.  might be a while
[16:00] <doko> seb128, didrocks: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg  rythmbox recommends ephiphany-browser. wanted?
[16:01] <seb128> doko, no
[16:01] <seb128> Laney, ^
[16:01] <didrocks> I don't think it was expected :)
[16:01] <seb128> Laney did the rb update I think
[16:01] <didrocks> Laney: you wanted a new browser to please mdeslaur? :)
[16:01] <Laney> arm64
[16:02] <doko> ahh, yes, arm64 doesn't have another one
[16:02] <mdeslaur> argh! :)
[16:03] <xnox> doko: can we make w3m provide x-www-browser on arm64?! =)
[16:03] <seb128> Laney, why does rb need to recommend a browser?
[16:03] <xnox> seb128: to open u1 music store?
[16:04] <mdeslaur> there's no way epiphany is going to main
[16:04] <Laney> nobody's askign it to
[16:04] <seb128> xnox, isn't that a "try to activate an url, how the url is handled is up to the system"?
[16:04] <Laney> I assume it's from the plugin
[16:05] <xnox> i wonder if dropping to suggests will just work. Since anybody that has rhythmbox installed is likely to have a graphical web-browser, and if they don't, they are probably installing everything with no-recommends and no-suggests anyway.
[16:06] <Laney> Just ignore it
[16:08] <seb128> Laney, well, if it's creating noise on component mistmatch it's still annoying?
[16:09] <cjwatson> Best fix is to port firefox; until then it's a known false positive and you should just ignore it really
[16:09] <cjwatson> No point getting exercised over it
[16:10] <seb128> well, downgrading to a Suggests would make sense, I'm not sure an application needs to recommends a webbrowser just because one of its plugin has an url handler
[16:10] <Laney> It is weird for a mozilla plugin to recommend epiphany-browser, mind you
[16:10] <seb128> but yeah, not an important topic
[16:10] <Laney> it's not a url handler
[16:10] <cjwatson> seb128: if it weren't rhythmbox it would probably be something else; I don't think there's any point in focusing on rb here
[16:11] <seb128> right
[16:15] <mitya57> ScottK: by the way, I'm wondering if you volunteer to re-upload qtsensors with fixed arm symbols, or should I put it on sponsoring queue?
[16:16] <ScottK> I'll take care of it.
[16:16] <mitya57> Thanks (bonus points for uploading that to Debian as well)
[16:17]  * ScottK didn't get home from working until 3AM yesterday (which was only 8 hours ago here), so I'm a bit behind today.
[16:17] <ScottK> It's in the Debian Qt-KDE repo, right?
[16:17] <mitya57> ... which is down
[16:17] <ScottK> Good point.
[16:17] <ScottK> I'll ask lisandro.
[16:19]  * mitya57 didn't ask lisandro because lisandro is already busy uploading a bunch of mitya57's qt5.2
[16:19] <ScottK> Right, I just don't want to step into what he's doing without discussing.
[16:20] <mitya57> Ok.
[16:29] <hallyn_> infinity: fwiw, qemu package with qemu-arm64-static is in ppa:serge-hallyn/virt.  (didn't manually add -lgpg-error so hadn't expectd it to build)  not sure what to test with.
[16:31] <xnox> hallyn_: libnih + upstart have in excess of 6k+ tests. Also eglibc test-suite =)
[16:36] <hallyn_> xnox: do we have arm64 builds of those?  id'd need to build a chroot to start i assume
[16:37] <xnox> hallyn_: yes, we do have arm64 of those. we have most of main build.
[16:38] <xnox> hallyn_: you can do $ mk-sbuild --arch arm64
[16:38] <hallyn_> are you sure?  most builds i've seen just fail
[16:38] <hallyn_> but ok, i'll see, thx
[16:39] <xnox> hallyn_: if you have qemu-arm64-static, it should be able to bootstrap arm64 chroot, with qemu-arm64-static. After that builds are just $ sbuild --arch arm64 *.dsc
[16:39] <xnox> hallyn_: our arm64 port rocks - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseNotes -  94% of the binary packages in the "main" component are available, and 69% of the binary packages in the archive as a whole.
[16:40] <xnox> hallyn_: sure a few things needed to be retried a few times, but overall it mostly builds.
[16:40] <hallyn_> hm
[16:40] <xnox> in trusty it's even more.
[16:55] <Laney> hrm, is gcc-4.7 problematic on arm64? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/156422079/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-arm64.webkitgtk_2.2.1-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:11] <infinity> jamespage: The woo was for dodging the maven bullet.
[17:11] <infinity> hallyn_: Grabbing the ubuntu-core tarball, untarring it, copying qemu-arm64-static to usr/sbin and chrooting in should work.
[17:12] <infinity> Laney: AFAIK, it should work.  Would be hard for it to have been built if it doesn't work at all.
[17:13] <hallyn_> infinity: will try that, thanks
[17:13] <Laney> Mmm.
[17:13] <robru> bschaefer, ping? just curious about the status of unity7 tests from friday (forgot to follow up with you then)
[17:13] <infinity> Laney: autoconf's "compiler can't create executables, HALP" message is generally useless without a config.log, where you'll see that it's probably just exiting non-0 due to a missing include or -l or something.
[17:13] <infinity> Laney: I can try to look at it between now and when I have a plane to catch.  Just headless chickening a bit this morning.
[17:13] <Laney> infinity: If you like. I'm a bit loathe to do blind uploads of webkit
[17:13] <infinity> Laney: That said, why is webkit building with gcc-4.7?
[17:13] <bschaefer> robru, hmm which tests? I don't seem to remember...
[17:14] <Laney> infinity: It could be dropped, that came from Debian.
[17:14] <robru> bschaefer, yeah i don't remember either ;-) but didrocks says that just in general you were working towards eliminating some flaky tests and getting unity7 green.
[17:14] <robru> he asked me to follow up with you
[17:14] <Laney> Well, maybe could be dropped. They chose 4.7 to avoid 4.6, not to avoid 4.8.
[17:15] <bschaefer> robru, oo, yeah our goal for unity 7 is get get all the AP tests working but its very hard to do, so far nothing new has happened
[17:15] <robru> bschaefer, oh ok. well maybe just ping me if you make any progress today. no worries.
[17:16] <bschaefer> robru, alright will do
[17:17] <robru> bschaefer, thanks
[17:17] <infinity> Laney: Well, if it works with 4.8 (or, rather, with the default gcc, which is currently 4.8), that would be better than hardcoding it, and doko will love you forever.
[17:18] <infinity> Laney: I'm not one to talk, though, I hardcode in glibc, and sort of have to, so I'm arguably the worst offender for keeping old compilers around. :/
[17:18] <infinity> Laney: Anyhow, when I get my bearings this morning, I'll do a quick test of webkitgtk on arm64 for you and see what config.log is whining about.
[17:18] <Laney> Ta
[17:19] <Laney> Feel free to make the 4.8 (default) change too if that works
[17:19] <Laney> See my previous comment about blind uploads. :P
[17:20] <mitya57> ScottK: thanks for qtsensors!
[17:20] <ScottK> mitya57: YW.
[17:23] <jamespage> infinity, well that was definately a woo!
[17:27] <ScottK> mitya57: Want me to add you to uploaders too?
[17:28] <mitya57> Ah, please do.
[17:29] <ScottK> OK.  Will do.
[18:04] <infinity> Laney: Wait, webkitgtk is new source?
[18:04] <infinity> Laney: Does that have ancestry somewhere else?
[18:04] <Laney> It's a rename from webkit
[18:04] <infinity> Rename and a massive version bump...
[18:05] <Laney> haha, I didn't do any arithmetic on it
[18:05] <Laney> It includes new packages for the webkit 2 API
[18:07] <infinity> conftest.c:1:0: error: target system does not support the "stabs" debug format
[18:07] <infinity> Laney: ^-- That's your error.
[18:08] <Laney> Ta, that is actually probably my error
[18:08] <infinity> Laney: -g should work fine.
[18:08] <infinity> Laney: If the goal is to avoid large links on 32-bit platforms, arm64 is, I'm pretty sure, 64-bit. ;)
[18:09] <infinity> Laney: And I assume -g is the default for things that aren't in the two filter lists.
[18:09] <infinity> Laney: Also, we're not (yet) using EGL on arm64, so adding it to the glx/egl list with armel and armhf is probably also wrong.
[18:10] <infinity> Laney: We may switch that at some point, but right now, arm64 is built for standard GL (and the previous webkit was too)
[18:10] <infinity> Laney: So, basically, the two things you added to be clever in the merge are the two broken things. ;)
[18:10] <Laney> There's k-a there, so it's not just 32
[18:11] <Laney> I did ask if there was a way I could test build it. :P
[18:11] <Laney> But yeah, woe is me
[18:11] <infinity> Laney: My bet is that the addition of kfreebsd-amd64 to that list was a mistake/misunderstanding, but whatever.
[18:12] <infinity> Laney: if it were me, I'd probably just filter on DEB_HOST_ARCH_BITS and be done with it, but I also don't have a high carefactor here, if the current solution works.
[18:17] <Laney> I think it might have done bad things to the kfreebsd-amd64 buildd
[18:18] <Laney> There's a couple of buildlogs in which ld gets killed
[18:19] <infinity> Laney: That could just be the kfreebsd-amd64 being shit.  The solution there shouldn't be to neuter builds.  But, like I said, carefactor low.  If the current thing works, meh.
[18:19] <infinity> Laney: kfreebsd is actually becoming a usable and mature product, though, so I might start caring more very soon.
[18:20] <infinity> (Once I waste a month of my hobby/spare time to help Petr get all his glibc patches upstream, I'll be even more confident in that position)
[18:20] <Laney> Want to test build an upload removing my crap?
[18:20] <Laney> Could also use 4.8 too.
[18:33] <infinity> Laney: No need to switch compilers just yet.  We can investigate that another time.
[18:33] <infinity> Laney: I can kick off a test build, but it won't be done before I'm in the air.
[18:34] <Laney> Meh, can do it in the archive.
[18:34] <infinity> Laney: And then I have YYC->LHR->CBG before I'll be sort of around again.
[18:34] <Laney> Good ol' CBG
[19:01] <seb128> bdmurray, infinity, slangasek: is any of you planning to do some saucy SRU reviews soon? ;-) (we have some fixes for high ranked e.u.c issues in the queue, I'm trying to get thing moving so we keep tackling stuff on the report)
[19:03] <seb128> bdmurray, infinity, slangasek: indicator-application and telepathy-mission-control-5 are in this category (and should be straightforward to review) (lightdm would be nice as well but that's less trivial as an update)
[19:03] <bdmurray> seb128: I work on SRU stuff on Thursdays
[19:04] <seb128> bdmurray, do we have anyone active on other days?
[19:04] <seb128> bdmurray, thanks for the work you are putting on SRUs btw!
[19:05] <bdmurray> seb128: I thought I saw ScottK release some updates the other day and slangasek works on the queue on Fridays
[19:10] <infinity> seb128: I'll look at the queue in a second, just on the phone with an airline.
[19:10] <infinity> (Monday is my day, in theory, but I was off yesterday, so meh)
[19:11] <seb128> infinity, thanks, the telepathy/indicator ones should be trivial so I would appreciate if you could review/get them through
[19:16] <seb128> doh, stgraber just copied some SRUs over
[19:16] <Alan-1> Does anyone know how I can get a google api that is associated with a google PAGE (not a google personal profile)?
[19:16] <seb128> stgraber, can you copy ido as well? I just marked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ido/+bug/1246536 verification-done
[19:17] <seb128> stgraber, hud as well it you can ;-)
[19:18] <stgraber> seb128: finishing my current pass, hopefully the report will then update and I'll spot the other ones you just tested
[19:18] <seb128> stgraber, great, thanks ;-)
[19:19]  * seb128 battles e.u.c
[19:19]  * seb128 wishes that mvo and dobey would help for update-manager/software-center issues that are close from top-ing now
[19:20] <Laney> Grr, looks like arm64 is still busted (but likely to be fixed with the exp version, which we can probably sync)
[19:23] <ScottK> seb128: I do it when I have time, which is uneven, so I don't have a specific day.  I did do a bit yesterday.
[19:23] <infinity> Laney: That looks pretty spectacularly broken.
[19:24] <Laney> It totally is
[19:26] <seb128> ScottK, ok, thanks for the work ;-)
[19:27] <infinity> seb128: bug #1217086 is marked Fix Committed for trusty, is there a pending upload for that?
[19:29] <infinity> seb128: Oh, looks like ubuntu7 has it.  Nevermind.
[19:31] <seb128> infinity, ;-)
[19:34] <stgraber> seb128: ido and hud released
[19:34] <seb128> stgraber, infinity: thanks!
[19:38] <arrun> Hello guys, I wanted to know how to create a language package and apply on the box?
[19:39] <infinity> seb128: bug #1238149 has a note that it's artificially failed until ido is released.  Does that mean we can release gtk now?
[19:56] <seb128> infinity, yeah, see the comment I added at the same time you were pinging on IRC ;-)
[19:57] <stgraber> infinity: I just noticed that (as I was looking at the next gtk+3.0) and released it already
[19:58] <infinity> stgraber: Heh.  Awesome.  I'll close those browser tabs, then. :P
[19:58] <arrun> Hello guys, I wanted to know how to create a language package and apply on the box?
[20:04] <stgraber> pitti: I'm confused by bug 1211514 and its saucy SRU, what's the status of all that?
[20:05] <stgraber> the bug status would suggest it's not fixed in trusty, but what's in the queue appears to be a backport of trusty, so I'm wondering whether that upload actually fixes the bug
[20:06] <stgraber> (also, it'd have been nice if we could have somehow avoided the massive autoconf diff in the SRU...)
[20:24] <NikTh> Hello everyone.
[20:25] <NikTh> If anyone knows, is it possible to build kernel 3.12 for precise and upload it to a PPA ?
[20:25] <arrun> Hello guys, I wanted to know how to create a language package and apply on the box?
[20:27] <NikTh> I tried to built it but, it failed due to dependencies problems in pbuilder. I assume it will fail in launchpad virtual builders too.
[20:37] <infinity> NikTh: You'll find that there's a delta between linux/3.11 in saucy and linux-lts-saucy/3.11 in precise.  I assume that same delta would need massaging and application to 3.12
[20:39] <NikTh> infinity: Thanks . I thought the same thing. Probably this would be applicable when linux-lts-trusty will be released, I presume.
[20:59] <ScottK> Laney: Any idea what's up with your lilpond SRU build for powerpc?
[21:29] <Laney> ScottK: Nope, mailed the upstream people who asked me to do the fix and they are looking into it
[21:44] <ScottK> Laney: Thanks.
[23:19] <sarnold> does anyone know more about the flood of "package <foo> failed to install/upgrade: package <foo> is already installed and configured" that we're getting these days?
[23:19] <sarnold> should I be assigning them all to apt? leave them at dpkg or whatever package was selected by the bug reporting tool?
[23:20] <ScottK> Got an example?
[23:21] <sarnold> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/1249757
[23:24] <ScottK> No idea.
[23:24] <ScottK> I vote slangasek most likely to know and be unable to resist looking.
[23:25] <ScottK> infinity would know, but he'd probably resist.
[23:26] <xnox> sarnold: looking and the dpkg log file attached it looks weird. user is manually installing nvidia-current, yet all the "needed" packages to be installed are already installed =/
[23:26] <ScottK> xnox: but it still shouldn't get that error.
[23:26] <xnox> sarnold: usually there is a bot that comes around and tells people to try something along the lines of $ dpkg --configure -a
[23:26] <sarnold> xnox: hrm. I wonder if some guide published recently has lead a lot of people astray..
[23:26] <ScottK> And he said this is one of a rash of errors.
[23:27] <ScottK> Even if you manually install  a package that's already installed, you shouldn't get that error.
[23:34] <slangasek> sarnold, ScottK: I suspect an aptdaemon bug
[23:34] <slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ have you noticed this uptick in 'is already installed and configured' bugs?
[23:34] <sarnold> slangasek: would it be helpful for me to re-assign the package for some of these bugs?
[23:34] <slangasek> sarnold: I'd say aptdaemon is the place to start
[23:41] <sarnold> slangasek, ScottK, xnox, thanks! :) I've moved a handful of recent bugs over to aptdaemon.
[23:46] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes, I think so
[23:46] <bdmurray> slangasek: I was looking at bug 1046856 somewhat recently
[23:47] <slangasek> bdmurray: can we pin it down to a version of some package? (aptdaemon?)


[09:48] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[13:56] <waltman> You know, snap is great when it works, but when it breaks it's kind of a hot mess.
[13:56] <waltman> https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/81222/database-upgrade-error-attempt-to-write-a-readonly-database/p1