[00:04] <rick_h_> yummm, apis http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.04/javascript/index.html
[00:04] <rick_h_> almost makes me want to run unity for a day and see what I can integrate with it
[00:10] <llua> that sounds like activex
[00:10] <llua> skimming over it...
[00:11] <rick_h_> basically firefox/chrome extensions add some JS apis to your page you can use
[00:12] <rick_h_> that allow you an API to interact with the unity indicators, HUD, etc
[11:48] <snap-l> Morning
[11:48] <snap-l> Ugh, I'm tired. Had a sinus headache that would not go away for anything
[11:53] <rick_h_droid> morning tgif folks
[12:00] <brousch> Next F we'll be in Columbus
[12:06] <rick_h_> yep, finally got some work on my talk this week
[12:07] <snap-l> I worked on a ride. :)
[12:07] <snap-l> Man, I don't feel like last night happened. :)
[12:07] <rick_h_> good stuff, she all nice and quiet ride?
[12:07] <snap-l> Yeah, nice and smooth
[12:08] <rick_h_> always love riding in a new car when you don't realize how slowly over time your older vehicle is louder/rougher than you thought
[12:10] <brousch> A new car?
[12:10] <brousch> VW Beetle?
[12:11] <snap-l> Jetta
[12:11] <snap-l> Black exterior, black interior
[12:12] <brousch> Hawt
[12:14] <rick_h_> man, you've got balls to buy an all black vehicle while we're hitting 90s+ days
[12:15] <snap-l> rick_h_: And no sunroof. :)
[12:15] <rick_h_> yep, balls of steel
[12:15] <snap-l> rick_h_: I buy my vehicles for the 9 months we don't. :)
[12:16] <brousch> No AWD?
[12:18] <brousch> Whoa ""Microsoft's announcement of a late October release date for Windows 8 was eclipsed by its earnings report, in which the computer giant posted its first-ever quarterly loss since going public in 1986.  It's the headlines that matter
[12:19] <rick_h_> lol
[12:26] <snap-l> My worst fear is they'll replace Ballmer with someone who can run the company more effectively
[12:26] <snap-l> We need Microsoft to flounder like a big company. :)
[14:26] <snap-l> Zappa on the headphone, and the windows wide open.
[14:27]  * snap-l wonders what the weather is in Portland
[14:28] <snap-l> 63F, mostly cloudy. Still has a hippie front hanging overhead.
[14:29] <brousch> 63F and cloudy is perfect
[14:29] <rick_h_> yep
[14:29] <brousch> I'm moving to portland
[14:29] <rick_h_> it's early there still
[14:30] <jjesse> brousch, when you pack up, save room for me ok
[14:30] <brousch> Actually I had an offer to work in Eugene, OR many years ago
[14:30] <snap-l> WTF?
[14:30] <jjesse> brousch, i almost worked in seattle
[14:30]  * snap-l makes a note to stay at the Michigan border so you gents can't leave
[14:30] <jjesse> wife didn't want to move across the country and so far away from familty
[14:31] <brousch> I didn't want to work in Foxpro
[14:31] <snap-l> brousch: ++
[14:59] <brousch> rick_h_droid: How's the 7 treating you?
[15:00] <rick_h_> brousch: liking it. combined with that little bluetooth speaker it's a great music/etc device for around the house
[15:00] <rick_h_> my phone feels so small now
[15:00] <rick_h_> some of the apps are still kind of meh
[15:00] <rick_h_> and stuff I wanted to do like edit my presentation for pyohio fail since the drive client can only do docs/spreadsheets
[15:01] <brousch> H, I haven't tried that
[15:01] <rick_h_> yea, just happens to be the kind of stuff I'm messing with atm
[15:01] <rick_h_> it's a really nice browser though.
[15:01] <rick_h_> going through news, doing research, etc
[15:01] <brousch> That just means there's still room for more new apps
[15:01] <rick_h_> yea
[15:02] <snap-l> Yeah, looking over your shoulder I was impressed.
[15:02] <brousch> With rick_h_'s 7 incher?
[15:03] <rick_h_> but there is a flicker issue going around it I want to get fixed for sure
[15:03] <rick_h_> yea, 7"
[15:03] <rick_h_> I do treat it more like a big phone tbh
[15:03] <rick_h_> but I've watched more youtube/netflix than I ever did on my phone
[15:03] <snap-l> rick_h_: I noticed that with the Nook
[15:03] <rick_h_> and irc, I gave up on the phone but run it all the time on the N7
[15:04] <snap-l> There are things that work so much better with a larger screen
[15:04] <rick_h_> yea
[15:04] <rick_h_> the magazine isn't great, I'd not do that on the 7"
[15:04] <rick_h_> so I can see room for the 10" to do some things
[15:04] <rick_h_> again, I've not 'created' much content on it so that might be a case for a 10" being better as well
[15:04] <snap-l> Yeah, technical reading needs a larger screen
[15:04] <rick_h_> but it's replaced my phone for anything around the house really
[15:05] <rick_h_> well I still read on the kindle
[15:05] <snap-l> Wait, which 10" screen are you referring? :)
[15:05] <rick_h_> and I've hit audible limitations so not done books on there yet since I use those mobile
[15:05] <snap-l> I thought that was the kindle
[15:05] <rick_h_> snap-l: just saying that a 10" tablet is probably better for 'creating' content on
[15:05] <MaskedDriver> I'm partial to my Xyboard
[15:06] <rick_h_> MaskedDriver: get jellybean on there... <3
[15:06] <brousch> rick_h_: What resolution is the 7?
[15:06] <rick_h_> 1280-by-800
[15:07] <brousch> I find the 1024x600 on the nook color to be just a little less than needed for viewing a 8.5x11 pdf
[15:07] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: it's not rooted.. it's a work tablet so I can't :(
[15:07] <rick_h_> so far I'm more than happy for the price. Even if it's just a thing to read on around the house. not as warm as the laptop for that stuff. Sat on the front porch watching dilbert on netflix last night and I can't do that on the laptop
[15:08] <snap-l> I owouldn't own up to that regardless of the device. :)
[15:08] <brousch> Yeah, and you can bring it within 6 inches of your nose for an IMAX experience
[15:08] <rick_h_> oh come on, little brainless time is good for you :P
[15:09] <snap-l> heh
[15:09] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, the speaker is weak though so love the bluetooth speaker for sure
[15:24] <jjesse> rick_h_ do you do a lot of typing on your 7?
[15:25] <brousch> Fast thumbs
[15:26] <brousch> I find the hacker's keyboard full version fits perfectly on 7"
[15:26] <jjesse> i use swiftkeyX on my Android
[15:26] <rick_h_> jjesse: honestly, if no one's around I just use voice. It's that good
[15:27] <jjesse> wow that's cool
[15:27] <rick_h_> jjesse: but I do have the swiftkey tablet I use and that works well
[15:27] <brousch> Is the speech to text done locally?
[15:27] <rick_h_> jjesse: yea, I had a whole multi-text exchange with the wife just via voice and it worked awesome but for one typo I think
[15:27] <rick_h_> brousch: not if you're online, but if you're offline it can run locally
[15:27] <jjesse> thats pretty cool
[15:27] <brousch> It's pretty slow online
[15:27] <rick_h_> e.g. it defaults to online and goes offline as backup
[15:27] <rick_h_> no, it's fast
[15:27] <brousch> And I've found it very bad in my knock knock jokes
[15:28] <rick_h_> jelly bean has made a big improvement even over ICS
[15:28] <rick_h_> my poor phone feels like a slow clunker now
[15:28] <rick_h_> and started to use the Google Now search thing for questions.
[15:28] <brousch> But online should be the same for any android. I assume they use the same service
[15:28] <rick_h_> my favorite is asking it "what's the current weather in portland Oregeon"
[15:28] <jjesse> my 7 shows "ordered"
[15:29] <rick_h_> brousch: no, starting in ICS they send the text up as you speak
[15:29] <rick_h_> so it's translating before you're done talking and coming back. So you can really just sit and speak a paragraph and see it slowly form as you're speaking it
[15:29] <brousch> But it should be the same engine
[15:29] <rick_h_> brousch: I'll show you at pyohio, it's fast
[15:30] <rick_h_> brousch: I don't konw, the fact that it exists locally makes me think it's got to be different
[15:30] <rick_h_> let's say that the time diff locally vs online is minimal that you'd have to be looking to realize it
[15:30] <brousch> Heh, I just realized my NC has no microphone
[15:30] <rick_h_> ah
[15:30] <rick_h_> the N7 has dual for noise cancelling
[15:30] <brousch> It's not so much the slowness that bothers me, it's the bad translations
[15:31] <brousch> That could help
[15:31] <rick_h_> yea, it's much improved in jelly bean
[15:31] <snap-l> brousch: The Tablet has a mic
[15:31] <snap-l> but I've never used it (that I'm aware of)
[15:32] <rick_h_> I did a test hangout and skype call off the tablet, worked out pretty well though the camera makes me tilt the camers where it's harder to read stuff off the screen
[15:32] <snap-l> Of course, this is an example of the bullshit apps on this device: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ghost-radar-classic-app-spud-pickles/1108295820?ean=2940043873682
[15:33] <snap-l> That's under productivity.
[15:33] <brousch> D00d. The B&N App store is junk
[15:33] <snap-l> It's beyond junk
[15:34] <rick_h_> lol
[15:34] <snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/strobe-light-ninja-pig-studios/1107919835?ean=2940043871572
[15:34] <rick_h_> bwuhahaha, got voidspace using whoosh https://twitter.com/voidspace/status/226338469667037184
[15:34] <snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/love-your-husband-peak-mobile-designs/1108210232?ean=2940043862860
[15:34] <snap-l> rick_h_: Very cool
[15:35] <snap-l> One less "use lucene"
[15:35] <rick_h_> that would have been a good talk idea, I should have done that doh!
[15:35] <brousch> It looks like I could get a bluetooth mic for the NC
[15:35] <rick_h_> yea, "pure python to rule them all...well a chunk anyway"
[15:35] <snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/kitchen-timer-kidsandi-software/1108428121?ean=2940043878519 < This app is garbage too
[15:36] <snap-l> You literally turn this clunky-ass dial
[15:36] <snap-l> and it sits where and puts a notification event while it's counting down
[15:36] <snap-l> You can't tell it "I want two minutes", you dial as close as you can
[15:37] <brousch> hehe
[15:37] <brousch> realism!
[15:37] <snap-l> SO, as a simulator for why nobody uses those type of timers, it's awesome.
[15:38] <brousch> Hm, this has no camera either. Maybe I need a bluetooth webcam with mic
[15:38] <snap-l> brousch: And here's where you buy a Nexus 7
[15:38] <brousch> Heh
[15:39] <rick_h_> right, after you spend $100 on extra gear you just spend $200 on the real thing and get latest android updates, dev environment, and nook/kindle apps anyway
[15:39] <rick_h_> but yea, I've started to collect bluetooth items lately for the phone/laptop/tablet
[15:39] <rick_h_> now the only problem is turning them on and they connect to the wrong device at first lol
[15:39]  * rick_h_ listing to his google music over BT headphones to the cell phone at the coffee shop.
[15:40]  * snap-l still has your Bluetooth Apple keyboard.
[15:40] <brousch> Heh "The Bluetooth data bandwidth (2.1Mbit/sec) would limit a ¼ VGA video steam (320x240) to 3 frames per second. Bluetooth video would be very choppy at best."
[15:40] <rick_h_> snap-l: burn it :P
[15:40] <snap-l> hah
[15:41] <snap-l> brousch: I think they have some tricks for newer versions of Bluetooth
[15:41] <snap-l> but yeah, I think it's getting time for USB Wireless.
[15:42] <brousch> I'll just find a microphone. I never use a webcam anyways
[15:42] <rick_h_> yea, I still have this dream of wireless displays
[15:42] <brousch> I have the pnone if I really need it
[15:42] <rick_h_> my laptop says it'll do it, but linux doesn't support it at all
[15:42] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB#Comparison_of_digital_RF_systems
[15:43] <snap-l> Version 3.0 + HS of the Bluetooth Core Specification[28] was adopted by the Bluetooth SIG on April 21, 2009. Bluetooth 3.0+HS provides theoretical data transfer speeds of up to 24 Mbit/s, though not over the Bluetooth link itself. Instead, the Bluetooth link is used for negotiation and establishment, and the high data rate traffic is carried over a collocated 802.11 link.
[15:43] <rick_h_> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/intel-wireless-display.html
[15:44] <brousch> Do I have to worry about Android compatibility if I'm looking for a bluetooth headset? Or do they just work?
[15:44] <brousch> I haven't bought a bluetooth anything in a decade
[15:44] <rick_h_> brousch: so I found most things just work, but there are crappy ones out there I think
[15:44] <snap-l> I'm not aware of any issues
[15:44] <rick_h_> I just go off reviews and make sure I get something well rated by a bunch of people so I know the chipset/hardware is good stuff
[15:45] <snap-l> I was able to pair my phone with the car last night before the salesguy knew what I was doing
[15:45] <snap-l> Had BT Audio with no problems.
[15:45] <rick_h_> awesome
[15:46] <snap-l> Stilla little perturbed that the touch screen radio was only an option with the sunroof
[15:46] <snap-l> but the radio that's in there is good enough
[15:46] <rick_h_> meh, touch screens I'm not too hot on anyway
[15:47] <snap-l> Yeah, but would be nice to have RDS and the like
[15:47] <rick_h_> I've never had issues with buttons accepting my touch, firing at the right point, etc
[15:47] <rick_h_> RDS?
[15:48] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System
[15:48] <snap-l> I've only had that on the Alero, and liked it
[15:48] <rick_h_> oic
[15:48] <rick_h_> right, yea I guess I didn't realize lack of touch screen meant lack of visual real estate for other stuff
[15:49] <snap-l> Well, it's still a dot matrix display
[15:50] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRRMxubIoMU
[16:05] <snap-l> brousch: Apparently you're getting Shawn Powers closeby
[16:06] <snap-l> http://www.brainofshawn.com/2012/07/20/its-official-and-a-bit-scary/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=its-official-and-a-bit-scary
[16:07] <rick_h_> lmao http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4271378
[16:07] <snap-l> What is Sparrow?
[16:07] <rick_h_> the cool kids app on OSX/iOS for mail
[16:08] <rick_h_> there's going to be a bunch of unhappy apple fanbois
[16:08] <rick_h_> so I laugh!
[16:08] <rick_h_> it begins! http://uploads.mitechie.com/sparrow.png
[16:09] <_stink_> haha
[16:09] <jjesse> fascinating he went to cornerstone
[16:09] <snap-l> Oh for fuck's sake
[16:09] <snap-l> Next we'll get jcastro saying mail on the desktop is ded
[16:09] <snap-l> dead, even
[16:09]  * rick_h_ checks the transcript...
[16:09] <rick_h_> yep been there done that :P
[16:10] <rick_h_> the only problem with the N7 http://goo.gl/TleSP
[16:10] <rick_h_> I've started to get a lot of video off of AMZ
[16:10] <rick_h_> and I've wanted to catch the west wing, never saw it
[16:12] <snap-l> THat's the problem with Netflix
[16:12] <snap-l> I've been watching documentaries. :)
[16:12] <snap-l> Like the one on the pruitt-igoe project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruitt%E2%80%93Igoe
[16:12] <snap-l> http://www.pruitt-igoe.com/
[16:23] <rick_h_> best comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4271430
[16:23]  * rick_h_ is dinking around on news waiting for a bzr push to actually go through *sigh*
[16:34] <snap-l> rick_h_: I think that's a bit harsh
[16:35] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, since this is going to be a team put into UX/etc of the gmail stuff and not a product that is supposed to be moved/integrated
[16:43] <greg-g> I just get 'The requested URL could not be retrieved'
[16:46] <greg-g> bad timing http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/movie-gun-myths/
[16:46] <snap-l> greg-g: And I await the crackdown on cosplay at movies
[16:47] <greg-g> actually, I haven't seen much, just a few tweets, haven't read any news on it yet, but all I know is it sucks
[16:48] <rick_h_> yea
[16:48] <rick_h_> friend from OH was at a hotel blocks away last night :/
[16:48] <greg-g> eek
[16:49] <rick_h_> yea, guess he didn't get much sleep due to sirens for the night
[16:56] <brousch> Shawn Powers?
[16:57] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, he's coming to live near you
[16:57] <snap-l> in GR
[16:57] <brousch> I wonder why he rented in south GR when he'll be working far north
[16:57] <brousch> 131 ehll every day
[16:57] <brousch> hell
[16:58] <brousch> Ah, Linux Journal
[16:59] <brousch> Hm, time to recruit him for the various groups
[16:59] <rick_h_> hah
[17:00] <rick_h_> mmm, interesting point https://twitter.com/ericflo/status/226360336796758016
[17:06] <snap-l> rick_h_: Well, I'd be more worried of Yahoo bought Sparrow Mail
[17:07] <snap-l> jaiku and dodgeball at least got merged into the Google borg
[17:07] <snap-l> and weren't left to flounder on their own with 100 managers saying "make it {favorite_color}"
[17:08] <snap-l> Chill, people
[17:08] <snap-l> now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to blog about how the weather channel is killing wunderground
[17:09] <rick_h_> hah
[17:14] <brousch> Thanks for the heads-up
[17:16] <brousch> OK, I picked up a bluetooth car hands-free thing at lunch. It pairs, but it doesn't send audio out through it
[17:16] <brousch> I think it's being too smart and only routing phone stuff through it
[17:17] <rick_h_> yea, there's two types of audio devices, mono phone type, and stereo music stuff
[17:17] <rick_h_> and different apps need to be in different modes
[17:19] <brousch> Wow, he responded already
[17:38] <jjesse> rick_h_ i have several people saying they are now looking for a new mail client instead of sparrow
[17:39] <snap-l> I hear Thunderbird is done
[17:41] <brousch> Gmail
[17:46] <MaskedDriver> Exchange?
[17:46] <rick_h_> mutt never goes away :P
[17:46] <MaskedDriver> Outlook?
[17:46] <MaskedDriver> ;)
[17:47] <snap-l> MaskedDriver: You can have my Exchange share.
[17:47] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: I actually rock out an Exchange server
[17:47] <MaskedDriver> mostly to learn how it works
[17:47]  * rick_h_ runs from exchange...never again
[17:47] <brousch> rock out?
[17:47] <brousch> Is that possible?
[17:48] <snap-l> Yeah, like my parents rocked out
[17:48] <MaskedDriver> lol yeah.. no problems here
[17:48] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: I still rock out
[17:48] <brousch> That's like saying you rock out in a Winebago
[17:48] <rick_h_> wait until a mailbox goes boom
[17:48] <MaskedDriver> rick_h_: impossible
[17:48] <MaskedDriver> plus.. backups ftw
[17:48] <snap-l> MaskedDriver: Oh hell no
[17:49] <snap-l> Not impossible. Every time Outlook creates an archive file, an e-mail gets its wings
[17:49] <snap-l> never to be seen or heard from again
[17:49] <MaskedDriver> lol
[17:49]  * snap-l can't remember the extension
[17:49] <snap-l> but it was the equivalent of wrapping your mail in a binary blob and setting it on fire
[17:50] <brousch> winmail.dat makes me want to kick puppies
[17:51] <MaskedDriver> *shrugs* no problems here
[17:51] <MaskedDriver> you're just bad at Exchange
[17:52] <rick_h_> MaskedDriver: how many users? how long? how many upgrades?
[17:52] <rick_h_> I mean seriously, you're saying because you've not had a problem they don't exist?
[17:52] <MaskedDriver> 1 user, 1 year, a lot
[17:52] <MaskedDriver> ;)
[17:52] <MaskedDriver> lol we use it at work and we've never had data failure.. 150 users or so for about 5 years
[17:52] <rick_h_> ok, so let me know when you're admin'ing a system for a company for a few years and we'll chat then :)
[17:52] <snap-l> You run Exchange personally?
[17:52] <brousch> It looks like we found yet another topic to get rick_h_ all worked up with
[17:53] <MaskedDriver> snap-l: yeah.. technet supremacy
[17:53] <snap-l> MaskedDriver: It's not a quastion of if, it's a question of when
[17:53] <MaskedDriver> it's for development/learning purposes
[17:54] <MaskedDriver> I guess technically there are 10 users but I'm the only one that uses it regularly
[17:54] <rick_h_> brousch: I've wasted many a year trying to keep up exchange, windows pdas, outlook, offline pst files, and all crap. never want to see it again
[17:54] <snap-l> rick_h_: Those are the ones... .pst files
[17:55] <snap-l> I cringe whenever I see those
[17:55] <jjesse> pst files are awesome
[17:55] <snap-l> they're the cement shoes of mail data
[17:56] <brousch> OK, I missed this earlier.  It takes an internet of rage-quit to get us to talk about something
[17:57] <MaskedDriver> ok.. I sufficiently angered rick_h_, so I'm going back to work
[17:58] <MaskedDriver> :D
[17:58] <brousch> jjesse: I don't have a lot of Apple fanboys in my feeds
[17:58] <jjesse> brousch, hahaha
[17:58] <rick_h_> how can you follow python poeple without them?
[17:59] <snap-l> brousch: You must not follow many developers
[17:59] <brousch> Actually I haven't checked my feeds since lunch
[18:00] <snap-l> That's when the Apple world grieved.
[18:00] <snap-l> https://twitter.com/Ihnatko/status/226372550500954112 <- Here's your dose of Portland
[18:00] <snap-l> Enjoy.
[18:01] <brousch> What's wrong with a little public nudity?
[18:05] <snap-l> I just report it
[18:23] <greg-g> I want all of the OSCON attendees to go through security naked tonight
[18:23] <greg-g> I think I convinced my old boss :)
[18:24] <rick_h_9> how is oscon treating you greg-g?
[18:25] <brousch> Apparently very well if he wants to get naked with all of them
[18:26] <greg-g> rick_h_9: a great time
[18:26] <greg-g> brousch: maybe I should redefine my goal, maybe not *all*
[18:29] <snap-l> Moving the goalposts, I see. :)
[18:29] <snap-l> It won't work unless we ALL do it. :)
[18:30] <greg-g> alright, we'll all take one for the team, back to the original plan!
[18:46] <snap-l> http://garyc.me/bring/
[18:47] <rick_h_> test
[18:47] <snap-l> Received
[18:47] <rick_h_> cool, tmux ssh session loaded on tablet
[18:47] <snap-l> Nice
[18:51] <rick_h_9> hacker keyboard is cool with alt, esc, ctrl keys but much harder to use
[18:51] <snap-l> Yeah, I think Microsoft is on to something witht he separate screen for keyboard
[18:51] <snap-l> I'm curious how the Surface will play out
[18:52] <snap-l> I think it'll be a flop, but have some interesting ideas
[18:54] <rick_h_> yea, the surface I'm not sold on
[18:55] <rick_h_> I think it's a prettier version of current laptops
[18:57] <snap-l> yep
[18:58] <snap-l> But then again, that seems to be how people are using their ipads
[20:53] <snap-l> WOW was here. :)
[21:04] <rick_h_9> Hopefully they give you some good news
[21:05] <snap-l> Well, they replaced some stuff on the pole
[21:05] <snap-l> thing is, it's pretty much chasing ghosts
[21:05] <snap-l> It didn't go down much today. Earlier this week I wanted to rip my hair out.
[21:05] <snap-l> And whenever they show up, it's beautiful sailing
[21:07] <snap-l> Also asked them why their clock was off by so much
[21:08] <snap-l> Have to hand it to this tech: he wasn't the normal "here's your modem" "Have you tried turning it off and on again" sort.
[21:08] <rick_h_> heh cool, arbor networks emailed me
[21:09] <snap-l> What's the gist?
[21:09] <rick_h_> just recruiter-y stuff, but from arbor networks itself vs something generic
[21:10] <snap-l> Ah, that's cool
[21:10] <rick_h_> just we're looking for devs, have top notch facilities and 'work/life balance'
[21:10] <snap-l> Ah, those are nice to get.


[02:59] <djwn> here goes: how does one use a config file of env vars with upstart jobs?
[03:30] <djwn> looks like sourcing the conf might work
[11:03] <djszapi> salhey
[11:03] <djszapi> slangasek: ^ :)
[11:04] <djszapi> shall I just use pre-start and post-stop if I would like to modprobe a module for my daemon, and rmmod that once that is stopped.
[11:04] <djszapi> so that the g_serial.ko module would only be needed for my module, and nothing else. Hence, I would not like to put into the /etc/modules file.
[11:20] <jodh> djszapi: seems reasonable - some services already do this in Ubuntu.
[11:21] <djszapi> shall I use exec before modprobe and rmmod, or not ?
[11:23] <djszapi> jodh: does this look sane then ? http://paste.kde.org/500420/
[11:41] <djszapi> something is broken with that, because after running my "start foobar" job, I am not getting the g_serial loaded, nor my binary running :(
[12:15] <jodh> djszapi: I'd take out that sleep which is a hack seemingly. Also, I believe we have previously discussed the fact that Upstart runs all jobs with "/bin/sh -e", hence see: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#debugging-a-script-which-appears-to-be-behaving-oddly
[12:18] <djszapi> jodh: hack, but needed anyway
[12:19] <djszapi> jodh: unless you fix upstart.
[13:01] <SpamapS> djszapi: isn't that sleep because the event you are trying to handle isn't handled properly in udev, not upstart?
[13:01] <djszapi> no any real clue
[13:02] <SpamapS> djszapi: I think I recall the issue was that you want this to be run if the device is plugged in, but not before some state has been reached in the boot
[13:02] <djszapi> the daemon should be running, once the device is recognized by the kernel, and then udev in userspace.
[13:06] <SpamapS> ok, but the sleep 60 would imply that there is something else you need
[13:06] <djszapi> ?
[13:06] <djszapi> it is a hackaround without knowing any better way.
[13:07] <SpamapS> and your start on doesn't mention the device attributes, just udevtrigger.. so its hard to agree that we need to 'fix upstart' when you're not using it the way it was designed
[13:07] <SpamapS> I'd expect a  something-device-added
[13:08] <djszapi> I use at this was designed
[13:08] <djszapi> agreed by few people
[13:08] <djszapi> you can say all of us said bullshit
[13:08] <djszapi> but you need to technically prove that
[13:09] <SpamapS> If you want a job to be run when a specific device is recognized by udev, 'start on udevtrigger' is not the way to do that.
[13:09] <djszapi> I would suggest reading the log back
[13:09] <djszapi> there was more than this discussed.
[13:09] <SpamapS> #start on tty-device-added DEVNAME=/dev/ttyUSB1
[13:09] <djszapi> we tried other triggerings as well
[13:09] <SpamapS> I suspect this failed for some odd reason?
[13:09] <djszapi> nothing worked really :)
[13:10] <djszapi> we tried to make both as a condition
[13:10] <SpamapS> I recall the case now
[13:10] <djszapi> not even that
[13:10] <SpamapS> but not the real issue
[13:10] <djszapi> we do not know the real issue
[13:10] <djszapi> it is either in udev, or in the linux kernel
[13:10] <djszapi> this is a workaround
[13:10] <djszapi> and it is gonna remain so until someone shows up a more elegant solution.
[13:11] <SpamapS> ok, so while it is making upstart a pain to use, its not actually upstart doing something "wrong"
[13:13] <SpamapS> djszapi: sorry to complicate things. Did you still have an unanswered question?
[13:13] <djszapi> if you can review the job, that would be great.
[13:13] <djszapi> and provide feedback.
[13:30] <jodh> djszapi: I updated the Cookbook regarding the udev issue you've observed: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#careful-use-of-udev-events, but note that this is not an Upstart issue.


[09:34] <ntnth> usb modem not detecting on the ubuntu machine
[09:34] <ntnth> can anyone help me on this?


[09:02] <ricotz> darkxst, hi :), seeing a thunderbird 24.2.0 release will probably mean that mozjs24 will also be called 24.2, which means another library-name-change :\
[09:06] <darkxst> ricotz, meh, seems the mozilla people have no idea what is going on then ;(
[09:10] <darkxst> ricotz, https://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-esr24/rev/0fa56f18ff99
[09:13] <darkxst> ricotz, perhaps we should relax the versioning on the .pc file?
[09:15] <darkxst> although gjs still links directly against the lib
[09:15] <darkxst> meh, ignore that
[09:21] <ricotz> changing the name of the library- and pc-file without any reason is just a pita
[09:21] <ricotz> i guess there is no real understand for the shared library concept
[09:34] <darkxst> ricotz, right, I don't quite get it, it seems that the versioning was causing issues with extensions
[09:34] <darkxst> but the versioning is only applied to standalone build
[09:41] <darkxst> ricotz, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=927073
[09:42] <darkxst> but I still don't see how that breaks ABI
[09:42] <ricotz> an ABI break is no reason to change the name
[09:43] <ricotz> at least not for the standalone version
[09:43] <ricotz> but since they aren't maintaining a proper soname versioning they don't see another way
[09:46] <darkxst> yeh they refused to adopt proper soname versioning
[09:51] <ricotz> i am going to push an (untested) snapshot to my staging ppa
[09:53] <ricotz> (e.g. it might fail to build)
[09:58] <darkxst> ricotz, right, I wouldnt be entirely surprised it there are regression from those patches
[10:01] <darkxst> but it would be good to know either way, release isnt too far off, mainly blocked by the debug stuff currently
[10:02] <darkxst> ricotz, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8344053
[10:02] <darkxst> perhaps include that in snapshot?
[10:03] <ricotz> ah was that what you added to https://launchpad.net/~darkxst/+archive/mozjs-debug/+sourcepub/3665453/+listing-archive-extra ?
[10:04] <darkxst> ricotz, no, I had to had a terrible hack to gjs (#define DEBUG) to make debug builds work
[10:05] <ricotz> ok, this is not included in my build though too
[10:05] <darkxst> with the above patch ./configure --debug should just work
[10:05] <ricotz> ok
[10:06] <darkxst> --enable-debug
[10:06] <darkxst> even
[10:06] <ricotz> i dont want to add it though
[10:07] <ricotz> enabling debug even breaks abi?
[10:07] <darkxst> ok
[10:07] <darkxst> no it shouldnt, but did due that bug
[10:08] <darkxst> debug build should be abi compatible just a bit slower
[10:08] <ricotz> i mean the debug build and non-debug build are not abi compatible
[10:09] <ricotz> the patch suggests otherwise
[10:10] <ricotz> but i guess they are not all public headers
[10:12] <darkxst>  jsvals are structs in the debug build vs ints in the normal build
[10:13] <darkxst> but atleast according to upstream, they are abi compatible
[10:14] <ricotz> ah, this drops the minor versioning "libmozjs-24.so"
[10:15] <ricotz> mozjs-24.pc
[10:16] <darkxst> oh right, so if they ever actually really break the ABI we will be stuffed
[10:18] <ricotz> in this case we would just bump the soname
[10:20] <ricotz> the patch doesnt apply
[10:25] <darkxst> ricotz, probably against master then
[10:29] <darkxst>  I'm off for the night, been a long weekend, cya
[10:47] <ricotz> darkxst, bye
[19:04] <Brama> hello gnome fans
[19:04] <Brama> i'm having problems installing latest ubuntu gnome with my usb stick and it's too big for a cd
[19:05] <Brama> is there a way to install proper ubuntu gnome trough official ubuntu netinstall ?
[19:06] <Brama> is there anybody here ?
[21:13] <MaverickPT> hi


[01:35] <valorie> how weird to see KDE bugs on github
[01:35] <valorie> :(
[01:35] <valorie> why do people do this
[01:45] <OerHeks> reporting kde bugs to 'microsoft'? this is so 2019...
[01:45] <OerHeks> security issues, valorie ?
[01:45] <valorie> I was just reading up in the chan
[01:46] <valorie> it was a great big string about a weird bug in kde-connect
[01:46] <valorie> but then I've found people reporting kubuntu bugs on facebook!
[01:46] <valorie> in groups we have no control of
[01:47] <OerHeks> oh, or open on pastebin, en posted in #u ...
[01:47] <valorie> yep
[03:11] <rupi_> Hello people. I need help installing my Geforce 940MX on this machine. but i'm an amateur in terms of Linux. can anyone help me? here are my device info: Kernel ver. 5.0.0-21-generic;  processor: Intel i5; #22-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jul 2 13:27:33 UTC 2019.
[08:21] <pragomer> hello. would you have any advice why my gimp 2.10.x seems to have a buggy default dark mode on kubuntu 19.04 ?    https://i.imgur.com/16kkTQa.png
[10:06] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:10] <Mrokii> Hello. Is it possible to have Kubuntu, after a reboot, reopen all apps and folders automatically that were open before?
 @Mrokii, System Settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Desktop Session -> Restore Previos session
[14:17] <Mrokii> Great. :)
[16:18] <k0oda> Hey guys
[18:45] <amy665> so is using the last lts release still safe , if using backports to upgrade everything?
[18:45] <amy665> I'm not interested in having to back everything up for a full reinstall atm
[18:47] <amy665> i'm referring to 16.04
[18:47] <amy665> lts
 Latest LTS is 18.04 version
[19:03] <amy665> i know that , but I have heard trying to do a distro upgrade has a high likelyhood of messing up
[19:03] <amy665> so I'm assuming i'd have to back everything up and then reinstall
[19:03] <amy665> which I don't want to do atm
[19:05] <amy665> this is an older computer , but its my work-horse of sorts , settings wallpapers , programs ect.
[19:06] <amy665> don't have an entire day to spend here soon to do that
[19:21] <amy665> Well i'll check back later this weekend maybe somebody will be around then.
[21:31] <amy665> well ok now I nee some real help , I just "updated" kubuntu 16.04 to the newest 18 version , I thought all went well until it rebooted
[21:32] <amy665> its sitting at a promt now
[21:32] <valorie> amy665: I would do a backup
[21:32] <valorie> and then upgrade
[21:32] <amy665> asked for username and pass
[21:32] <valorie> and?
[21:32] <amy665> and once entered nothing but aznother prompt
[21:32] <valorie> nothing?
[21:32] <valorie> you have to login
[21:32] <amy665> i did
[21:32] <valorie> unless you have an empty password
[21:33] <amy665> black screen almost like terminal
[21:33] <valorie> ah
[21:33] <amy665> it is the terinal
[21:33] <valorie> it IS a terminal
[21:33] <amy665> yea
[21:33] <valorie> so I would do sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
[21:33] <valorie> and see if something was left half-upgraded
[21:34] <amy665> k it running
[21:34] <valorie> otherwise you could have perhaps a graphic driver problem
[21:34] <valorie> in which case you might have to do "nomodeset"
[21:34] <valorie> !nomodeset
[21:35] <amy665> it says some packegs were automaticly installed but not required
[21:35] <amy665> was instant it didn't download anything
[21:35] <amy665> terminal says to use auto remove
[21:36] <amy665> o upgraded 0 installed
[21:36] <amy665> ohh and 0 t remove
[21:36] <amy665> so um wth
[21:38] <amy665> tried apt nomodeset and it said invalid opersation
[21:39] <amy665> tried start x and vent to nvidia screen like before but came back to terminal
[21:40] <amy665> says at end of msg tried to use log file , then "waiting for x server to shut down
[21:40] <amy665> back to terminal again lol
[21:40] <amy665> so any ideas on where to go
[21:43] <amy665> so nobody with any ideas?
[21:48] <amy665> i read that article and said it applies to 10.0 and 10.1 respectly
[21:49] <amy665> is there a kernel command i can use to deleted its setting file and for it to try to reconfigure?
[21:53] <amy665> start x tries to start something , i get nvidiea graphics screen , then back to the terminal with same msg
[21:53] <amy665> all  wihin 2 seconds
[21:54] <amy665> any parameters that might make it try to atleast get to desktop
[21:55] <valorie> you can't apt nomodeset
[21:56] <valorie> anybody around who can help amy with this?
[21:56] <valorie> I've never had to do it so I'm not sure
[21:56] <valorie> and that link is not very enlightening
[21:56] <valorie> can't be too hard because people do it all the time
[21:56] <amy665> yes its dated i read thru it
[21:57] <valorie> it's just a setting -- apt doesn't do settings
[21:57] <amy665> is there maybe a new video driver package i can download thru the terminal?
[21:57] <amy665> that might help
[21:57] <valorie> well, it's a kernal boot option
[21:57] <amy665> all worked fine a fw hours ago in 16.04
[21:57] <valorie> kernel
[21:58] <valorie> right, the kernel has been upgraded too
[21:58] <amy665> how do i figure that out?
[21:58] <amy665> only one os on this coptuer
[21:58] <amy665> the one that's messed up now that is
[21:58] <amy665> it boots directly to terminal
[21:58] <valorie> try pushing f6 as you boot
[21:58] <amy665> ask for login
[21:59] <valorie> amy665: since nobody but me seems to be around and I'm no help, try in #ubuntu
[21:59] <valorie> bigger channel, more people, more help
[21:59] <valorie> sorry that I don't know how to help
[21:59] <valorie> and am about to leave my keyboard
[21:59] <valorie> best of luck
[22:00] <amy665> well hit f6 and it now goes to a black screen lol
[22:00] <amy665> well something different
[22:00] <amy665> and waits
[22:00] <amy665> for around 10 seconds then goes to same login screen
[22:01] <amy665> top says  "Ubuntu 18.04.2 LTS
[22:01] <amy665> then under it a login prompt
[22:02] <amy665> well valorie  thx for the ideas, i'll try to show up later maybe more eople here
[22:04] <amy665> well tryig to update does nothing it ays all up to date
[22:04] <amy665> i should of known better


[00:17] <Ahmuck-Jr> anybody using anytype of caldav server in edubuntu?
[00:18] <Ahmuck-Jr> or pre-configured server?
[00:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> http://www.bedework.org/bedework/
[02:36] <LaserJock> bah
[02:36] <LaserJock> anybody seen Lns?
[03:07] <stgraber> he was there 3 hours ago
[03:14] <LaserJock> well, I got users-admin to do sorting
[03:15] <LaserJock> which he reported as lacking in bug #259163
[03:19] <stgraber> LaserJock: btw, looking at the current Edubuntu seeds, ship-addon isn't used by the DVD and so shouldn't exist anymore ?
[03:20] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:21] <LaserJock> let me check
[03:21] <LaserJock> because it seems like maybe there was still a purpose for it
[03:23] <LaserJock> there's no obvious dependency (that's good)
[03:24] <LaserJock> stgraber: you could try removing it and seeing if everything blows up :-)
[03:24] <stgraber> as I understand it, everything that's on the DVD in .deb form is in the dvd seed and everything else is in the dvd-live seed
[03:25] <LaserJock> well, kinda yeah
[03:25] <stgraber> though that means edubuntu-server (Edubuntu content server) isn't on the current DVD which I didn't know of ;)
[03:25] <LaserJock> but it's quite a bit more complicated
[03:25] <LaserJock> we took edubuntu-server off because all it was doing was installing moodle and we had issues with it
[03:26] <stgraber> ok
[03:26] <LaserJock> the livecd environment build scripts have some hard-coded bits
[03:26] <LaserJock> but I think that's just relative to desktop-gnome and maybe dvd-live
[03:26] <LaserJock> or maybe it's live
[03:27] <LaserJock> the problem is also that we inherit Ubuntu's seeds
[03:27] <LaserJock> but looking at the ship-addon CD, I don't think anything should be using it
[03:28] <stgraber> I'm currently looking at including what we need for the Netbook remix, it should simply be a matter of changing STRUCTURE so the dvd seed (not dvd-live) inherits from the ubuntu-netbook-remix seed as well
[03:28] <stgraber> ok, I'll drop the addon at the same time and see if I get some scary mails ;)
[03:29] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/seed/ubuntu.lucid$ grep -r netbook *
[03:29] <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/seed/ubuntu.lucid$
[03:29] <stgraber> that's disturbing ;)
[03:29] <LaserJock> it's probably in a separate branch
[03:30] <LaserJock> I do wonder a little how having so very many installation options is going to work
[03:30] <stgraber> hmm, yes it's, that's weird they made a separate branch even after making it an official derivative (as in, no longer a remix)
[03:31] <stgraber> LaserJock: well, the goal is to drop the text install (Workstation), so it should actually reduce the number of install option
[03:31] <stgraber> (that's if we can move LTSP to the Live environment in time)
[03:31] <LaserJock> well, but then how do you install the netbook version?
[03:31] <stgraber> the idea is to have the packages on the DVD and an option in ubiquity to install them
[03:31] <LaserJock> additionally, even if you move it all into the live installer there are quite some options
[03:32] <LaserJock> something to consider is the way in which Ubiquity installs things
[03:32] <LaserJock> I'm fairly sure it copies over the image and then removes stuff that shouldn't be there
[03:33] <stgraber> yeah, we'll need some tweaking there as ubiquity usually only removes packages
[03:33] <LaserJock> which means the more you put in the installer the longer the install process takes
[03:33] <stgraber> and we don't want these installed in the DVD image (at least not for LTSP and not for the netbook remix gconf schema)
[03:34] <LaserJock> for instance, a person who just wants plain old Edubuntu without LTSP, etc. might take twice as long to install as they need to
[03:34] <LaserJock> so you want it outside the Live chroot?
[03:34] <stgraber> yep
[03:34] <stgraber> if we can, then we'll make ubiquity install them from the DVD and if we can't they'll need to install them after the install by using the DVD as a repo
[03:34] <LaserJock> will Ubiquity handle that OK?
[03:35] <stgraber> I sent an e-mail to Collin about that, I'm waiting for his reply at the moment
[03:35] <LaserJock> I see
[03:35] <LaserJock> if it works that makes a lot of sense
[03:35] <LaserJock> as it is already people may have to spend a lot of time removing packages at installation
[03:36] <LaserJock> because of all the edu apps
[03:40] <stgraber> right
[03:40] <LaserJock> will the installer have options for the app bundles?
[03:42] <stgraber> initial use for that kind of option in the installer would be for LTSP and for the Netbook edition, if it works correctly, then I guess we'll use it for quite a few other things (including choose the bundles)
[03:42] <stgraber> though then, it'd mean we won't have the bundles installed in the live environment which would be bad for testing/demo of edubuntu
[03:43] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:43] <stgraber> it's less of a problem for LTSP and the netbook interface as these two usually cause some troubles when installed in a live environment (for the first, that'd mean having a dhcp/tftp/ssh/nbd server running and for the second, that'd change the UI quite a bit)
[03:43] <LaserJock> I guess that is a separate implementation detail
[03:43] <LaserJock> but it would be good if Ubiquity could be used to change what packages get removed
[03:44] <stgraber> for the bundles, I guess the easiest would be to install them in all cases and remove them
[03:44] <stgraber> right
[03:44] <LaserJock> so picking an app bundle or two would remove the remainder
[03:44] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:00] <Ahmuck-Jr> Happy New Year!
[06:02] <alkisg> Happy New Year
[14:40] <Dafna> http://www.edubuntu.org/Download has not been updated to refer to version 9.10
[17:42]  * HedgeMage peeks in
[19:38] <HedgeMage> Anyone awake?
[19:38] <HedgeMage> I need a second opinion on something.
[19:58] <alkisg> !ask
[19:58] <alkisg> HedgeMage: ^^
[19:59] <HedgeMage> Yeah, yeah, yeah... I want to pm the link to someone because I'm not sure I like it enough to be logged for posterity :P
[19:59]  * HedgeMage is a very self-conscious designer, especially since she's really a developer trying to do a bad imitation of design :P
[20:00] <HedgeMage> alkisg: So, up for looking at a VERY rough draft of what I think I'll suggest for a new edubuntu.org design?
[20:00]  * HedgeMage needs feedback
[20:00] <alkisg> HedgeMage: sure!
[20:01] <alkisg> But also send PMs at least to sbalneav and highvolt1ge :)
[20:01] <HedgeMage> alkisg: I already sent it to highvoltage via jabber.
[20:01] <alkisg> ...and stgraber
[20:01] <HedgeMage> I haven't seen any sign that sbalneav is online, so I'll send him a link when I see him.  I already jabbered stgraber.
[20:01] <alkisg> Wow, very refreshing
[20:02] <alkisg> I love it! Maybe the main text could be a tag bigger?
[20:03] <HedgeMage> Yeah, it needs lots more work...I'm just trying to see if folks like the general concept before I put tons of polishing time in.
[20:03] <HedgeMage> That way, if it needs a major change, I can do it and spend that polishing time on an idea we'll actually use
[20:03] <alkisg> And I think it needs some other icon to "break" the monotony, but sure, I think it's great!
[20:04] <HedgeMage> Thanks :D
[20:04] <alkisg> It's modern and refreshing but still suitable for also adults
[20:06]  * HedgeMage beams
[20:06] <alkisg> HedgeMage: can that be done as a drupal theme, or whatever it is that we're using for our webpage?
[20:07] <HedgeMage> Yes, I do drupal development for a living, that's why I volunteered when highvolt1ge started talking about upgrading the site.
[20:08] <alkisg> Ah right I remember now, sorry :)
[20:09] <alkisg> (it shows that I haven't put any work in our webpage etc :D)
[20:10] <HedgeMage> lol np
[20:37] <Ahmuck-Jr> any chance of having a bug day each week?
[20:37] <Ahmuck-Jr> or bi-weekly?
[20:45] <alkisg> Heh... if we can fund sbalneav's days off work, sure :P :D
[20:53] <HedgeMage> hehe
[21:00] <HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Jr: any opinion on: http://imagebin.ca/view/GsQpdMqn.html  -- it's very very rough, but I guess I'm brave enough to show it around in here now.
[21:02] <Ahmuck-Jr> for edubuntu new website?
[21:03] <HedgeMage> Yes.  It's just a first draft of my idea, nothing official.
[21:05] <HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Jr: thoughts?
[21:05] <Ahmuck-Jr> i like it
[21:06] <HedgeMage> :D
[21:07] <HedgeMage> Hopefully, highvolt1ge, stgraber, and sbalneav will pop in today so I can get their opinions.
[21:08] <HedgeMage> The mockup still needs lots of work, but I don't want to put in too much until I get any major changes they might have (or find out I should scrap it and start again)
[22:35] <stgraber> HedgeMage: pong
[22:36] <HedgeMage> stgraber: I have a very rough first draft of an idea for edubuntu.org; I put it up at "We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only
[22:36] <HedgeMage> crud
[22:36] <HedgeMage> sorry, mispaste
[22:37] <HedgeMage> stgraber: I have a very rough first draft of an idea for edubuntu.org; I put it up at "We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only
[22:37] <HedgeMage> grrr
[22:37] <HedgeMage> http://imagebin.ca/view/GsQpdMqn.html  <-- that is the URL
[22:38] <HedgeMage> stgraber: ^^^  (Please ignore the broken pastes, this is the URL I wanted you to see)
[22:41] <stgraber> general layout looks good, I'm just a bit worried of how it'd appear on a netbook screen (1024x600) with these two blocks at the top
[22:42] <stgraber> though I guess it's a usuall issue with netbook screens so something the netbook users are quite used to ;)
[22:44] <HedgeMage> stgraber: The two blocks on the top would only appear on the front page, and only to anonymous (not logged in) users, at least according to my current concept :)
[22:44] <stgraber> great
[22:44] <stgraber> that'd be the equivalent to our current release announcement blocks I guess ?
[22:45] <HedgeMage> My thought was to use the square for that, and use the larger rectangle to tell new visitors what edubuntu is and point them to overview pages for parents, teachers, etc.
[22:45] <stgraber> yep, sounds good
[22:46] <HedgeMage> brb, laundry
[22:47] <stgraber> something else to be careful about I guess is the vast range of currently used screen resolutions as we have users on screen ranging from 10" 1024x600 (netbooks) to the kind of screens I have here and at the office (24" at 1920x1080). That was an issue with the previous design (at there was a max-width set in px making most of the screen unused)
[22:49] <HedgeMage> stgraber: The header will not expand (to do so would require a use of SVG that would make the page crash for IE users), it will just be centered.  The rest will be fluid (grow to fit the browser area, with a small margin to make it look nice)
[22:50] <HedgeMage> stgraber: At least, that's the plan.  I'm still at the seeking info phase, and I haven't even gotten to show this to highvolt1ge yet, as he's afk.
[22:50] <HedgeMage> s/info/opinions/
[22:56] <HedgeMage> stgraber: if highvolt1ge and sbalneav are as happy with the general concept as you, alkisg, Ahmuck-Jr, and pygi seem to be, I'll flesh it out quite a bit more and pass it around again.
[23:00] <stgraber> cool
[23:01] <stgraber> having the logo centered is fine as long as the rest of the page expand correctly, what I hate is having content at the middle of the screen that must be split so it fits and have 50% of the screen completely empty because of fixed width
[23:02] <HedgeMage> highvolt1ge mentioned wanting to get this out in the next month or so, and I'm moving soon (a very time-consuming operation), so I'm hoping to get this hashed out sooner rather than later.
[23:02] <HedgeMage> stgraber: Yes, fixed-with themes are a pet peeve of mine as well.
[23:03] <HedgeMage> The thing that bugs me is that people don't make them because they look better or are easier to use, they make them because they are easier to code.
[23:04] <stgraber> yeah, I've been converting the Ubuntu theme from fixed width to variable width (the theme currently on brainstorm.u.c) and it's a pain to make something that works correctly on all browsers (we had to support IE6 at the time ...)
[23:05]  * HedgeMage nods
[23:06] <stgraber> the issue is usually to get a CSS that works just as well on IE and on FF, I guess now that IE6 is supposed to be gone (even Microsoft tries to get rid of it), it should make things slightly easier
[23:06] <alkisg> IE6 gone? There are a lot of w2k clients out there... :(
[23:06] <HedgeMage> alkisg: they can get an update to 7 from MS for free.
[23:06] <alkisg> HedgeMage: nope
[23:06] <alkisg> IE7 is only for >= XP
[23:07] <HedgeMage> alkisg: oh?  Why not?
[23:07] <HedgeMage> ahh
[23:07]  * HedgeMage doesn't really follow the windoze world
[23:07]  * alkisg had to support windows apps + sites for a long, long time. :(
[23:07] <alkisg> My site is even tested in IE4 :(
[23:07] <HedgeMage> alkisg: Well, they'll have to live with it -- we can make things degrade as gracefully as possible, but if we halt progress because some users can't be bothered tomove on, we all lose.
[23:07] <HedgeMage> alkisg: eww
[23:08] <alkisg> Heh
[23:08] <alkisg> Yeah sure I was just mentioning it, I didn't mean that it was something important :D
[23:08] <stgraber> I used to care for >= IE6, now I changed that to be >= IE7, it cuts the amount of hack required for specific browsers by half at least ;)
[23:08] <HedgeMage> Yep
[23:08] <stgraber> and for these still using IE6, they aren't very likely to go to my sites anyway or they'll need to install FF ;)
[23:09] <HedgeMage> hrm...I'd really like to work on this some more since I have some time today, but it bothers me that I haven't gotten to run it past highvolt1ge and sbalneav yet.
[23:10] <stgraber> maybe you'll see sbalneav online a bit later today but it's a lot less likely for highvolt1ge (it's 1am in South Africa)
[23:10]  * HedgeMage nods


[01:53] <kuro> Hi
[01:54] <kuro> Is anyone here that can help me with a little thing?
[01:54] <v1adimir> o/
[01:54] <kuro> o/
[01:54] <v1adimir> just.. ask. :)
[01:55] <v1adimir> *and nobody shall answer, as per usual. ;P;D
[01:55] <kuro> Ok. I installed Nautilus because I'm trying to test some other file managers, but for some reason, when I go to open a .zip file, it triggers Thunar and then does nothing
[01:55] <kuro> lmao
[01:56] <kuro> Do you know what could make it do that?
[01:57] <v1adimir> yea, hm, default app for file type - but, in Nautilus
[01:59] <v1adimir> maybe something like? https://superuser.com/questions/572011/how-do-i-set-up-preferred-applications-in-nautilus-by-file-extension-rather-tha
[01:59] <v1adimir> ugh, "7 years ago", pfft.
[02:00] <kuro> That's why I asked here. All the alternatives seem old enough for them to not actually work.
[02:01] <kuro> The only thing that I've read was on Reddit on a post from 2 years ago, but that person deleted Thunar, which I'm not even trying to do because it deletes core packages from my system
[02:02] <kuro> It literally would delete xubuntu lmao
[02:04] <v1adimir> there's this, also - like 'fixing' thunar first; in case it's been too-messed with? https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1051713&p=6624444#post6624444
[02:05] <v1adimir> not that it'll help. =)
[02:05] <v1adimir> ^^ oh, right! just read what you've written. xD
[02:06] <v1adimir> it's, just.. getting the file type. perhaps update-alternatives with whatever you're supposed to be doing, have you looked at that?
[02:08] <v1adimir> it isn't "xdg-settings" ??
[02:09] <kuro> idk if update-alternatives has something to do with it, because I try to open the zip file, it opens Thunar and then Thunar crashes
[02:09] <kuro> Open the zip file with Engrampa
[02:09] <kuro> *
[02:10] <v1adimir> have you got unrar, maybe it'll automagically fix things?.. https://itsfoss.com/use-rar-ubuntu-linux/
[02:10] <v1adimir> (bt i doubt it again. :))
[02:11] <kuro> I mean, I can simply do unzip xxxxxxx.zip on Terminal
[02:11] <kuro> But it's weird that I can't do it on a GTK+ interface
[02:14] <v1adimir> btw., if this will ever be useful (just ran across it), for Nautilus: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-extend-the-gnome-nautilus-file-manager-with-custom-scripts
[02:16] <kuro> Thanks, I'll save it
[02:16] <kuro> Anyway, thank for the try, but I think I'll just desist and keep using Thunar
[02:17] <kuro> XFCE always frustrates me, but I still use it
[02:21] <v1adimir> stick..around.. ah, nvm. ;P:P
[10:20] <Matthias123> Hello, I would like to now, is where a udev rules for all of the mtp devices.
[10:20] <Matthias123> So, if I plug in a phone and is supports mtp, it will auto mounted.
[10:20] <Matthias123> I would change his, mount it with jmtpfs, to a my own location.
[10:36] <brainwash> Matthias123: I think this is handled by gvfs-mtp
[10:40] <Matthias123> brainwash: I think so too.
[10:42] <Matthias123> but for me it look like a udev rool dose the mount.
[10:42] <Matthias123> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Media_Transfer_Protocol#gvfs-mtp
[10:44] <brainwash> thunar-volman does that
[10:44] <brainwash> check thunar-volman-settings
[10:44] <Matthias123> but I cannot find the udev rule, that's the reason for my question
[10:55] <Matthias123> I use geeqie to manage the fotos. The mount point of the mtp device is /run/user/$UID/gvfs/..UUID.. but this did not work for geeqie.
[12:09] <jphilips> vimart: we are working on the 'what is xubuntu?' documentation page this week if you are interested - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kkq51aJLT-BdCogUS4INhrR4e_IRgLT7YlUAWL32m4g/edit#
[18:20] <xu-help20w> Newbie in xfce: how to move the panel from top to bottom and how to switch double click into single click.
[18:25] <diogenes_> xu-help20w, right click on panel > panel > panel preferences >untick lock panel and drag it down from the edge.
[18:27] <diogenes_> for single click, open thunar > edit > preferences > behavior.
[18:30] <xu-help20w> Ok, i go to test. Many thanks.
[18:31] <coconut> !cookie


[00:00] <ClassBot> Slides for Lernid Testing Session: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler/slides/openweeklucid/UbuntuTranslations.pdf
[00:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/09/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[00:01] <jsjgruber> Thanks for being here to help test the new version of Lernid (<IP_ADDRESS>).
[00:01] <jsjgruber> Just a reminder, the next three weeks have three intriguing week-long events, starting next Monday with Ubuntu Developer Week. I'll be back for that one myself.
[00:02] <jsjgruber> To start with, you can see which version of Lernid you are running by looking in Help->About window.
[00:04] <jsjgruber> Anyone else with us to test lernid?
[00:06] <jsjgruber> let's work on getting it.
[00:06] <jsjgruber> If you don't have the lernid-releases repository in your list, you will have to add it to get the new version. Here's how:
[00:06] <jsjgruber> Open a terminal (CTRL-ALT-T will do that, or, if you are using an older Lernid version, you can use the Terminal tab.)
[00:06] <jsjgruber> Enter the following command:
[00:06] <jsjgruber> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:lernid-devs/lernid-releases
[00:06] <jsjgruber> Once you have the repository (or if you have had it all along) you can install the new Lernid:
[00:06] <jsjgruber> Just enter:
[00:06] <jsjgruber> sudo apt-get update
[00:06] <jsjgruber> and then:
[00:06] <jsjgruber> sudo apt-get install lernid
[00:07] <jsjgruber> (you can use the Ubuntu Sofware Center or synaptics to do these things, too)
[00:08] <lyz> this text shouldn't be bold
[00:14] <jsjgruber> Excellent
[00:14] <jsjgruber> As I mentioned before there are just a couple of us here, so please take your time, and please let me know in the chatroom if you have any questions.
[00:16] <jsjgruber> this should change the web page http://yahoo.com
[00:17] <jsjgruber> By the way, one of the first diffences you might have noticed was a line in the connection dialog telling you that it can take a minutes to connect to the classroom. It takes awhile and some people were disconcerted. Most of that time is waiting for the irc servers we use to do their best to identify each of us. Other IRC clients experience a delay starting up, too. A little bit more time may be spent negotiating for an unused nickn
[00:17] <jsjgruber> ame.
[00:19] <jsjgruber> On the main screen you should be able to see two new items. The Question
[00:19] <jsjgruber> control on the bottom right is now a checkbox, and the name of the classroom and chatroom to which you have attached will be displayed with the titles of those two "widgets". There are at least two sets of rooms in wide use -- #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat & #ubuntu-classroom-es and #ubuntu-classroom-chat-es
[00:20] <jsjgruber> .
[00:20] <jsjgruber> Did anyone have to drag anything around to see the two IRC "panes" on the bottom. I saw that problem before this release but I hope it's fixed with this release
[00:23] <jsjgruber> You should also have seen an notification come up saying that you were joining the classroom, and if the class was underway you would have seen (first) the introduction to the session underway (this testing session). Finally when you actually connected to the classroom and chatroom you should see a change in the color of the IRC windows at the same time you have seen the number of users pop up over the chatroom. This point in time s
[00:23] <jsjgruber> hould be more obvious than with previous versions.
[00:28] <jsjgruber> Please check the checkbox and send a comment.
[00:30] <jsjgruber> QUESTION: So... cats or dogs?
[00:30] <jsjgruber> cats, but they make me sneeze.
[00:30] <ClassBot> pleia3 asked: So... cats or dogs?
[00:31] <jsjgruber> Neither, my doctor says they aren't on my diet
[00:32] <ClassBot> pleia2lernid asked: Cake or pie?
[00:32] <ClassBot> toddc asked: I am so confused
[00:32] <jsjgruber> Are you really confused, or was that just an example?
[00:34] <jsjgruber> Let's switch to the schedule page, there's something to try.
[00:34] <jsjgruber> I'll wait a couple of seconds
[00:35] <jsjgruber> http://gmail.com
[00:37] <jsjgruber> If you had already switched to the schedule, you should have gotten a reminder on the bottom to switch back to the session tab, and the session tab should have highlighted. Do you guys see that?
[00:40] <jsjgruber> http://youtube.com
[00:42] <jsjgruber> http://launchpad.net
[00:44] <jsjgruber> now to try something that might not be good. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[00:44] <jsjgruber> please try to scross that page once it comes up. It may work ok for todd, me and for one of leia's computers but not for a lucid computer
[00:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:59] <jsjgruber> [slide 2]
[01:02] <jsjgruber> http://launchpad.net/lernid
[01:17] <jsjgruber> Is this in bold, SergioMeneses? It should be in bold for toddc, too if he reconnected after the top of the hour to "All Ubuntu Classroom Sessions" I think I have the name right.
[01:22] <jsjgruber> [slide 2]
[01:22] <jsjgruber> [slide 2]
[01:24] <jsjgruber> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SergioMeneses belongs to SergioMeneses
[01:30] <jsjgruber> http://google.com
[01:30] <jsjgruber> [slide 3]
[01:32] <jsjgruber> [slide 4
[01:32] <jsjgruber> [slide 4]
[01:34] <jsjgruber> [slide 2]
[01:34] <jsjgruber> you should see a slide that says welcome
[01:38] <jsjgruber> http://launchpad.net/lernid
[01:40] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[01:47] <jsjgruber> I'd like to thank you guys for helping me test lernid. I really appreciate it.
[02:15] <pleia2> [slide 4]
[02:15] <pleia2> http://launchpad.net/lernid
[02:15] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/06/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[19:05] <captaingordos> hello all