[00:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project merger_kdesdk-thumbnailers build #96: FAILURE in 3 min 48 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_kdesdk-thumbnailers/96/
[00:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_merger build #691: STILL UNSTABLE in 5 min 36 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_merger/691/
[00:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project mgmt_progenitor build #677: STILL UNSTABLE in 5 min 38 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/mgmt_progenitor/677/
[00:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project merger_kdesdk-thumbnailers build #97: STILL FAILING in 16 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/merger_kdesdk-thumbnailers/97/
 That is why nobody wants to use it :(
 But the channels exist
[00:14] <yofel> well, point is that it doesn't scale, and gets very expensive with lots of users
[00:15] <yofel> there's nothing technically wrong with it
[00:15] <tsimonq2> hai yofel :)
[00:15] <yofel> hey
 What is expensive?
[00:16] <yofel> "Slack" as in the service has a history limit, like 10k messages or so. To remove that you need a payed subscription, and that's per-user
[00:17] <yofel> *paid
[00:18] <yofel> There's mattermost ofc. but then you again have the hosting problem on your hand
[00:18] <tsimonq2> Plus, I like Telegram. :)
[00:18] <yofel> (I personally love slack, but it's not without problems)
 For open source projects they make it free
[00:19] <yofel> hm... Telegram is.. okay. I don't like how the android app does notifications
[00:19] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kgpg build #91: STILL FAILING in 12 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kgpg/91/
[00:19] <yofel> it always shows me the oldest ones first, so I keep missing stuff unless I properly dismiss messages regularly
 There are also open source alternatives like mattermost
[00:21] <tsimonq2> yofel: File an issue here? :) https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram
[00:22] <tsimonq2> Wait
[00:22] <tsimonq2> argh
[00:23] <yofel> ^^
[00:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdesdk-kioslaves build #81: STILL UNSTABLE in 19 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdesdk-kioslaves/81/
 o/ yofel
[00:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kppp build #7: STILL UNSTABLE in 26 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kppp/7/
[00:38] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdesdk-kioslaves build #42: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdesdk-kioslaves/42/
[00:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kde-runtime build #201: STILL FAILING in 31 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kde-runtime/201/
[00:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kgpg build #91: STILL FAILING in 31 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kgpg/91/
[00:47] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kgpg build #92: STILL FAILING in 22 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kgpg/92/
[00:55] <tsimonq2> yofel: still around?
[00:59] <ahoneybun> do we want to put together a session at UOS about anything? Maybe making a new KCI or something?
[00:59] <ahoneybun> since nothing it planned yet
[01:00] <tsimonq2> Whatever it is, I can't make it.
[01:00] <tsimonq2> Not to UOS/
[01:00] <ahoneybun> 19:00?
[01:00] <ahoneybun> UTC
[01:00] <ahoneybun> that's 3pm for me
[01:00] <tsimonq2> 20 is the absolute earliest I can go/
[01:01] <ahoneybun> mm
[01:01] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kgpg build #92: STILL FAILING in 16 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kgpg/92/
[01:02] <ahoneybun> clivejo acheronuk yofel valorie ovidiuflorin anything for UOS we need to plan for?
[01:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kppp build #84: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 0 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kppp/84/
[01:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kopete build #84: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 0 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kopete/84/
[01:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kopete build #61: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 0 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kopete/61/
[01:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kde-runtime build #195: STILL FAILING in 59 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kde-runtime/195/
[01:07] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kauth build #281: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kauth/281/
[01:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_okular build #17: STILL UNSTABLE in 45 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_okular/17/
[01:18] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kde-runtime build #202: STILL FAILING in 34 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kde-runtime/202/
[01:25] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdevelop-pg-qt build #18: STILL UNSTABLE in 19 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdevelop-pg-qt/18/
[01:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kauth build #153: STILL UNSTABLE in 19 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kauth/153/
[01:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kidletime build #81: STILL UNSTABLE in 19 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kidletime/81/
[01:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kde-runtime build #196: STILL FAILING in 22 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kde-runtime/196/
[01:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_okular build #95: STILL UNSTABLE in 27 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_okular/95/
[01:44] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kwallet build #288: STILL UNSTABLE in 9 min 55 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kwallet/288/
[01:55] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kwallet build #127: STILL UNSTABLE in 14 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kwallet/127/
[02:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kcharselect build #226: FAILURE in 2 min 18 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kcharselect/226/
[02:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[02:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kcharselect build #227: FIXED in 10 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kcharselect/227/
[02:30] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_spectacle build #105: STILL UNSTABLE in 10 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_spectacle/105/
[02:33] <tsimonq2> !ninjas | Interesting guide that we may be able to adapt for KCI: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging/GitWorkflow
[02:34] <tsimonq2> argh you're no fun ubottu
[02:34] <tsimonq2> clivejo, acheronuk, santa_ ^^^^
[02:44] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_spectacle build #84: STILL UNSTABLE in 11 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_spectacle/84/
[02:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_okteta build #113: STILL UNSTABLE in 19 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_okteta/113/
[02:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_umbrello build #91: STILL UNSTABLE in 19 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_umbrello/91/
[02:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_libkcompactdisc build #47: STILL UNSTABLE in 13 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_libkcompactdisc/47/
[03:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_ktp-common-internals build #207: STILL UNSTABLE in 18 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_ktp-common-internals/207/
[03:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kstars build #256: STILL UNSTABLE in 26 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kstars/256/
[03:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_akonadi build #267: STILL FAILING in 20 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_akonadi/267/
[03:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kirigami build #33: STILL UNSTABLE in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kirigami/33/
[03:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-nm build #212: STILL FAILING in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-nm/212/
[03:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_umbrello build #76: STILL UNSTABLE in 22 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_umbrello/76/
[03:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kstars build #124: STILL UNSTABLE in 23 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kstars/124/
[03:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_plasma-nm build #117: STILL FAILING in 15 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-nm/117/
[03:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_ktp-auth-handler build #181: STILL UNSTABLE in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_ktp-auth-handler/181/
[03:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_ktp-common-internals build #133: STILL UNSTABLE in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_ktp-common-internals/133/
[03:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace build #3: STILL FAILING in 49 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace/3/
[03:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace build #4: STILL FAILING in 44 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-workspace/4/
[03:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kirigami build #37: STILL UNSTABLE in 22 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kirigami/37/
[03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-nm build #213: STILL FAILING in 18 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-nm/213/
[03:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_akonadi build #187: STILL FAILING in 30 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_akonadi/187/
[03:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_ktp-auth-handler build #134: STILL UNSTABLE in 12 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_ktp-auth-handler/134/
[03:33] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_akonadi build #268: STILL FAILING in 24 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_akonadi/268/
[03:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_akonadi build #188: STILL FAILING in 3 min 52 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_akonadi/188/
[03:37] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_akonadi build #269: STILL FAILING in 3 min 50 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_akonadi/269/
[03:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_plasma-nm build #118: STILL FAILING in 14 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-nm/118/
[03:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_plasma-workspace build #3: STILL FAILING in 48 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-workspace/3/
[03:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_akonadi build #270: STILL FAILING in 2 min 52 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_akonadi/270/
[03:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_plasma-workspace build #4: STILL FAILING in 50 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-workspace/4/
[03:47] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_discover build #2: STILL UNSTABLE in 14 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_discover/2/
[03:57] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_akonadi-calendar build #2: STILL UNSTABLE in 9 min 53 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_akonadi-calendar/2/
[03:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdepim-addons build #3: STILL FAILING in 41 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdepim-addons/3/
[03:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_akonadi-contacts build #38: STILL UNSTABLE in 12 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_akonadi-contacts/38/
[03:59] <tsimonq2> !info kdenlive unstable
[04:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdepim-addons build #70: STILL FAILING in 38 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdepim-addons/70/
[04:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdepim-addons build #4: STILL FAILING in 1 min 8 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdepim-addons/4/
[04:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdepim-addons build #71: STILL FAILING in 1 min 5 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdepim-addons/71/
[04:15] <tsimonq2> !info default-libmysqlclient-dev
[04:15] <tsimonq2> !info libmysqlclient-dev
[04:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_plasma-desktop build #2: UNSTABLE in 35 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-desktop/2/
[04:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_akonadi build #189: STILL FAILING in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_akonadi/189/
[04:36] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_akonadi build #271: STILL FAILING in 19 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_akonadi/271/
[04:43] <tsimonq2> On Monday, I'll whip up a PPA and instructions for this ;)
[04:43] <tsimonq2> http://www.heliocastro.info/?p=291
[04:47] <valorie> wow
[04:47] <valorie> please remember to blog about it so people can find it!
 Yep! :)
 Maybe I can even figure out how to spin up an ISO. :P
[04:49] <valorie> there is a guide to making your own somewhere on the wikis
[04:50] <valorie> !iso
[04:50] <valorie> !custom
[04:50] <valorie> !custom iso
[04:52] <valorie> http://askubuntu.com/questions/516687/how-do-i-make-a-custom-ubuntu-iso-for-fully-offline-installations
[04:56] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_akonadi build #190: STILL FAILING in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_akonadi/190/
[04:57] <tsimonq2> valorie: Those no longer work.
[04:57] <tsimonq2> I've tried it before.
[04:59] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_akonadi build #272: STILL FAILING in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_akonadi/272/
[05:09] <valorie> boo
[05:09] <valorie> somehow jr made a neon one
[05:10] <tsimonq2> Well of course, maybe if I can't figure it out, I'll have to ask him.
[05:10] <tsimonq2> valorie: It would be nice if we could make a "Developer" image with kubuntu_stable that has "devel" in the sources.list.
[05:11] <valorie> hmmmm
[05:12] <valorie> I have to say that Clive's idea sounds more useful: a "professional" edition
[05:12] <tsimonq2> So then how would that work?
[05:13] <valorie> with working kmail / kolab, libreoffice, and whatever else we think would be useful
[05:13] <tsimonq2> Heyyyyyy my fix was featured in LWN! https://lwn.net/Alerts/703321/
[05:13] <valorie> cool!
[05:14] <tsimonq2> valorie: What would be different compared to regular Kubuntu? Would we modify the existing Kubuntu to be only like a "users" or "enthusiasts" edition?
[05:14] <valorie> for starters, we have no kolab
[05:15] <tsimonq2> kolab?
[05:15]  * tsimonq2 DDGs
[05:15] <valorie> secure email
[05:16] <tsimonq2> Hmm, this seems to be paid.
[05:17] <valorie> the service is paid
[05:18] <valorie> the server and client are free
[05:18] <valorie> afaik
[05:18] <tsimonq2> I don't like the idea of shipping something like that... :/
[05:18] <valorie> we could offer Kube and trojita as alternatives I guess
[05:19] <valorie> anyway, ask clive
[05:19] <tsimonq2> Ok/.
[05:19] <valorie> it was his idea, not mine
[05:20] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Please elaborate on your idea of a "professional" edition of Kubuntu.
[05:29] <tsimonq2>
[05:29] <tsimonq2> Ace Acer has sent you a message
[05:29] <tsimonq2> You can reply to this message by visiting your messages.
[05:29] <tsimonq2> Sorry to bother you but you manifested some interests for feedbacks about Kubuntu 16.10.
[05:29] <tsimonq2> As you already know the reboot and shutdown make the system hangs on the Kubuntu logo. I heard that there is a newer kernel (4.8.1) and it's more stable that the current kernel in 16.10. Maybe upgrading Kubuntu kernel to 4.8 could solve some problems - it's just a guess of course but i think it's a possibility that worth exploring.
[05:29] <tsimonq2> Now about the removal of plasmoids - using restricted drivers makes Plasma stalls at each attempt to remove a plasmoid - remember when i said i though the problem was fixed? well it seems that the problem is the nVidia drivers because all of them make Plasma stalls when removing a plasmoid. The mesa nouveau don't generate this problem. It's the first time i see the nouveau drivers being more stable
[05:29] <tsimonq2>  than the restricted drivers. On my PC(the one with the nVidia GPU and i'm using for testing new linux) it's usually the nouveau drivers that causes problems and the restricted ones are the ones being stable. I guess nVidia still need to improve their drivers. I'm not surprised because their drivers are giving me headaches on Windows as well.
[05:29] <tsimonq2> The notification popup is also making Plasma stalls with the restricted drivers but everything returns to normal after a long time(from 5 to 10 mins)
[05:29] <tsimonq2> One last thing. I have noticed that when installing new desktop themes they don't seem to install properly because most of them aren't showing in the themes list.
[05:29] <tsimonq2> Since all the above already have a launchpad bug report active i don't see the need at the moment to file a new one. If you want i can keep you informed if other bugs occur or if the existing bugs are being fixed by updates or manual tweaks .
[05:29] <tsimonq2> Best Regards
[05:30] <tsimonq2> Sorry for the spam, but I just wanted to make y'all aware.
[05:30] <tsimonq2> This is a YouTube message...
[05:30] <tsimonq2> lol
[05:37] <tsimonq2> Night o/
[07:13] <acheronuk> hmmm. no such problem with nvidia here
[10:40] <soee> acheronuk: well than we shoudl test it more and release if all is fine
[10:40] <soee> 5.7 is much improvement over 5.6
[10:42] <acheronuk> soee: seeing what we can do with that is on my agenda for this week :)
[10:43] <acheronuk> sorta got put on hold with YY etc
[10:44] <acheronuk> and as said in #kubuntu, if 5.8 looks like it could be done in a reasonable time frame, I somewhat favour going straight for that
[10:47] <soee> +1 :)
[11:20] <mamarley> That would be my preference too. :)
[11:21] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[11:34] <soee> hiho BluesKaj
[11:35] <soee> mamarley: are yo familiar with nvidia-prime?
[11:35] <BluesKaj> Hi soee
[11:35] <mamarley> soee: Not really.  This would likely be a better question for #ubuntu-x though.
[14:42] <clivejo> tsimonq2: the idea was to have two editions of kubuntu (ie home and business/pro) have the home edition with a very light weight email client ie trojita  and apps only home users would want and the business edition with full PIM and office suites etc
[14:43] <clivejo> but as we dont have the person power to maintain one edition, it wouldnt be a smart move to try and provide two!
[14:46]  * acheronuk nods
[14:46] <clivejo> should be moved to wishlust
[14:47] <clivejo> list
[14:47] <acheronuk> I prefer 'wishlust'
[14:47] <BluesKaj_> clivejo, yeah,  true enough , but a lighter home user edition would be welcome
[14:48] <clivejo> BluesKaj_: true, but moves us away from the default KDE experience we aim to give
[14:49] <clivejo> upstream want it installed by default
[14:49] <BluesKaj_> who needs a databased email system unless they´re in a work environment
[14:49] <acheronuk> WTF is tomahawk and why am I in it's team?
[14:49] <clivejo> LOL
[14:50] <clivejo> congrats you are the new maintainer!
[14:50] <BluesKaj_>  hehe
[14:50] <clivejo> it was a good media player
[14:50] <clivejo> !info tomahawk
[14:51] <acheronuk> website looks nice. but that does not mean a lot
[14:53] <BluesKaj_> mpv is a good stand alone player ...i was using it until i decided to explore kodi more thoroughly than in the past ... itś really quite well desgned except for some clunkymess here an there
[14:54] <acheronuk> smplayer with mpv backend works nicely here :)
[14:56] <BluesKaj_> clivejo, my point about default kde is the PIM should be optional if that is possibel , but I suspect itś much too late
[14:56] <clivejo> BluesKaj_: I know your point, we've talked about it at length before
[14:57] <BluesKaj_>  right
[14:57] <clivejo> which is why I suggested two editions
[14:57] <clivejo> but we do not have the people power to maintain two editions at present
[14:57] <BluesKaj_> and I agree , thatś a good concept
[14:58] <BluesKaj_> very unfortunate
[15:12] <clivejo> hi DalekSec
[15:12] <clivejo> hi DarinMiller
[15:14] <DarinMiller> \o clivejo!
[15:14] <clivejo> how are you?
[15:15] <DarinMiller> very good thanks.
[15:15] <DarinMiller> I was really impressed by your valient effort to recover KCI.
[15:16] <clivejo> hopefully we will get it patched up!
[15:16] <clivejo> if I can find someone to tell me how to add new packages now!
[15:18] <DarinMiller> I would like to understand exactly what  you did as I have no clue how a server such as KCI is setup.
[15:19] <clivejo> once I get a better grip on it, Im planning to do a few BBB sessions on it
[15:19] <DarinMiller> excellent
[15:19] <clivejo> basically Haruld accidently deleted the var/lib/jenkins folder on the master
[15:20] <clivejo> that held our keys for connction to our slaves
[15:21] <clivejo> my problem was that I was logging in as ubuntu and all jenkins stuff is owned by user jenkins
[15:22] <clivejo> and also on the slaves I was logging in as root, but there was another user called jenkins-slave that the master uses to control it
[15:24] <DarinMiller> the kci server setup begs many questions: why australia, why not backed up, why not faster iron where at least one devleoper has physical access...
[15:24] <DarinMiller> did a previous kubuntu dev used to live in Autralia?
[15:29] <clivejo> its owned by Blue Systems
[15:29] <clivejo> I have no idea why its in Australia
[15:32] <acheronuk> clivejo: I agree, I would like to go on BBB this week and get to grips with what you have done with KCI.
[15:34] <acheronuk> 'this week' being tomorrow onwards
[15:35] <clivejo> acheronuk: do you know what julia is?
[15:36] <acheronuk> an ex girlfriend?
[15:36] <clivejo> Julia , A high-level, high-performance dynamic programming language for technical computing , <http://julialang.org/>
[15:36] <clivejo>    Backend to use Julia with Cantor.
[15:37] <acheronuk> yes, I have heard of that but never played with it
[15:38] <clivejo> seems to be synced from debian - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/julia
[15:41] <acheronuk> out of date already
[15:43] <acheronuk> point being?
[15:47] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_cantor build #99: STILL FAILING in 43 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_cantor/99/
[15:47] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_cantor build #197: STILL FAILING in 43 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_cantor/197/
[16:09] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_cantor build #198: NOW UNSTABLE in 16 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_cantor/198/
[16:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_cantor build #100: NOW UNSTABLE in 23 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_cantor/100/
[16:16] <clivejo> humm -- Julia not found (missing:  Julia_MAIN_HEADER) (found version "0.4.7")
[16:17] <clivejo> must need a more recent version
[16:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[16:26] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_dolphin-plugins build #53: FIXED in 6 min 59 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_dolphin-plugins/53/
[16:27] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support build #89: STILL FAILING in 1 min 14 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support/89/
[16:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support build #90: STILL FAILING in 1 min 27 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support/90/
[16:34] <tsimonq2> o/
[16:34] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Ah ok, makes sense
[16:35] <tsimonq2> I agree with acheronuk, I want to get on BBB and get up to speed on your work with KCI
[16:36] <clivejo> only problem is that you wont have proper access without kubuntu-dev
[16:36] <tsimonq2> Ohï¿¿
[16:36] <tsimonq2> *Oh?
[16:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[16:40] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_eventviews build #3: FIXED in 10 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_eventviews/3/
[16:42] <clivejo> one of you guys wanna look at kdelibs4support ?
[16:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[16:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_eventviews build #3: FIXED in 11 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_eventviews/3/
[16:50] <tsimonq2> clivejo: What's up with it?
[16:50]  * tsimonq2 reads logs
[16:55] <clivejo> patch wont apply
[16:55] <tsimonq2> I see that, that's a weird patch name...
[16:56] <clivejo> needs investigation if its just fuzz or its been applied upstream
[17:10] <DalekSec> clivejo: Howdy.
[17:11] <clivejo> how are you?
[18:05] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support build #91: STILL FAILING in 22 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support/91/
[18:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[18:06] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kdelibs4support build #199: FIXED in 22 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kdelibs4support/199/
[18:11] <tsimonq2> Weird af...
[18:39] <clivejo> tsimonq2: be careful with symbols, if they become MISSING, you need to find out why
[18:40] <clivejo> the ones marked (optional=gccinternal) shouldnt be removed as they might be used in different arch
[18:40] <tsimonq2> clivejo: ok
[18:41] <clivejo> also see the way xenial is fixed and yakkety isnt?
[18:41] <tsimonq2> yeah
[18:41] <clivejo> that could be due to Qt versions
[18:41] <tsimonq2> I might have to reverse what I did
[18:41] <tsimonq2> oh?
[18:42] <clivejo> I believe santa_ has been marking them optional as well
[18:47] <tsimonq2> Ok
[18:47] <tsimonq2> good to know, thanks
[18:48] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support build #92: STILL FAILING in 37 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support/92/
[18:48] <tsimonq2> clivejo: and if you remember, we have the same Qt versions in KCI for both Xenial *and* Yakkety
[18:54] <clivejo> yes
[18:55] <tsimonq2> so "<clivejo> that could be due to Qt versions" doesn't explain it
[18:55] <clivejo> but xenial and yakkety have different gcc versions
[18:55] <clivejo> !info gcc
[18:55] <clivejo> !info gcc xenial
[18:55] <tsimonq2> ohhhhh ol
[18:56] <tsimonq2> *ok
[18:56] <clivejo> which is why we use the (optional=gccinternal) tags
[18:56] <tsimonq2> Yeah, I see, ok
[18:56] <tsimonq2> So then what does that do?
[18:57] <clivejo> it will warn about them, but shouldnt fail the build over it
[18:57] <tsimonq2> Ok
[18:58] <tsimonq2> I'm attempting to fix jovie atm
[18:58] <clivejo> we are only building amd64 as well
[18:58] <tsimonq2> Yeah, that's a thing.
[18:59] <clivejo> but in this case you are comparing amd64 with the sam
[18:59] <clivejo> these MISSING symbols are probably due to gcc version
[18:59] <clivejo> so rather than removing them, you need to revert that commit and tag them as optional
[19:00] <acheronuk> agreed. ditching symbols with only an amd64 build as justification is not a great idea
[19:00] <tsimonq2> Alright, well, I learned something new. Thanks guys. :)
[19:01]  * acheronuk yawns
[19:01] <clivejo> if the symbol has private somewhere in the name, then its usually safe to remove
[19:02] <clivejo> otherwise always investigate why they disappeared
[19:02] <clivejo> it usually indicates an ABI break
[19:03] <tsimonq2> clivejo: So if a package literally removes functions, is it safe to remove the symbols? Is there anything extra you have to do?
[19:03] <acheronuk> as we found out, just because debian ditched them doesn't mean it's always ok
[19:03] <clivejo> only if there is a SO bump
[19:04] <tsimonq2> clivejo: So please explain what that is.
[19:06] <clivejo> debian manual would be far better at explaining it
[19:06] <clivejo> https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html
[19:07] <tsimonq2> Ok, I'll read this in a minute.
[19:07] <acheronuk> and https://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#upstreamconcerns
[19:10] <tsimonq2> So then my Akonadi symbol refresh needs to be redone
[19:11] <acheronuk> ^^^ I would be happier if we at least had a look over it with santa_ clivejo etc
[19:11] <tsimonq2> Yeah, that would be a good example for this.
[19:11] <acheronuk> that is why a was a bit OMG!! when you did that the other week
[19:11] <acheronuk> may be right, but I want to make sure
[19:12] <tsimonq2> At least if one of them did it, we could see how they went about it.
[19:12] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[19:12] <clivejo> tsimonq2: whats this - https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+git/kubuntu-automation/commit/?id=f2af6875686a436dd47fae035a0208460fd115e1
[19:13] <tsimonq2> I was getting annoyed at having to git clone and set up everything to work on a package that is FTBFS in KCI, so I scripted it.
[19:14] <clivejo> just dget the package from unstable PPA?
[19:14] <tsimonq2> It's not that simple.
[19:14] <tsimonq2> And it's a lot of typing when you do it over and over again.
[19:14] <clivejo> well there are a number of cases that wont work
[19:14] <tsimonq2> Example?
[19:14] <clivejo> plasma-discover for one
[19:15] <tsimonq2> Well hey, it's not meant to be complete.
[19:16] <soee> o/
[19:16] <tsimonq2> o/ soee
[19:16] <acheronuk> needs to be reasobaly tried and testing to be in KA though I suppose
[19:16] <clivejo> https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+git/kubuntu-automation/tree/upstream-names.json
[19:16] <acheronuk> as other people may assume it owrks
[19:16] <clivejo> if you wanted to make it smarter ^
[19:17] <acheronuk> if not, that's what ~/bin/ is for
[19:18] <tsimonq2> acheronuk, clivejo: There, see my follow-up commit. :P
[19:20] <clivejo> Id prefer you kept it locally, or in your own git repo until it was ready for team use
[19:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kio build #283: FIXED in 22 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kio/283/
[19:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kio build #153: FIXED in 32 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kio/153/
[19:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:20] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_jovie build #7: FIXED in 17 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_jovie/7/
[19:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:21] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_jovie build #86: FIXED in 18 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_jovie/86/
[19:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kcompletion build #76: FIXED in 26 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kcompletion/76/
[19:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[19:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdoctools build #152: FIXED in 26 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdoctools/152/
[19:55] <clivejo> sgclark sitter shadeslayer_ yofel: if any of you have a few minutes to spare sometime to teach me how to deploy new jobs on KCI, it would be much appreciated :)
[19:56] <tsimonq2> ^ same here
[19:56] <acheronuk> +1 as well
[19:56] <acheronuk> back in a bit
[19:56] <tsimonq2> o/ acheronuk
[19:57] <acheronuk> I bet I miss it and have to read on logs or something :/
[19:57] <tsimonq2> clivejo: could you please take a look at plasma-sdk? that list-missing list is just too big to be misc. files...
[19:57] <clivejo> 20:00 UTC on Sunday, I doubt it!
[19:57] <tsimonq2> clivejo: talking to me?
[19:58] <clivejo> nope, Rik saying he'll miss it!
[19:59] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: Neon's solution. Lol. https://packaging.neon.kde.org/plasma/plasma-sdk.git/commit/?h=Neon/unstable&id=1b9ccfc600165c72c6367779174c4ac395f02f97
[19:59] <clivejo> they are new files
[19:59] <clivejo> LOL
[19:59] <tsimonq2> LOOOOL
[19:59] <acheronuk> one way to solve it!
[20:00] <tsimonq2> Hey, if it works!
[20:00] <tsimonq2> XD
[20:00] <clivejo> personally I dont like it
[20:00] <acheronuk> I saw that the other week and decided not to go that way!
[20:00] <acheronuk> ok. really back later....
[20:01] <tsimonq2> o/ acheronuk
[20:01] <clivejo> but I cant give you a reason why I dont
[20:01] <clivejo> just doesnt feel very debian!
[20:01] <tsimonq2> clivejo: so should I try it? :P
[20:02] <clivejo> tsimonq2: ask debian
[20:02] <tsimonq2> bah
[20:02] <tsimonq2> fine
[20:02] <tsimonq2> I won't
[20:02] <tsimonq2> I'll just do it properly
[20:02] <clivejo> it feels wrong to me, but I cant give you a reason
[20:02] <clivejo> they will give you the reason
[20:02] <clivejo> and you can tell me!
[20:02] <tsimonq2> It feels off to me too...
[20:03] <clivejo> seriously, ask
[20:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kldap build #186: FIXED in 12 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kldap/186/
[20:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:03] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support build #93: FIXED in 16 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdelibs4support/93/
[20:04] <tsimonq2> HEY! Look at that! :D
[20:04] <tsimonq2> More green!
[20:04] <clivejo> :)
[20:08] <valorie> weeee
[20:08] <valorie> is it really Sunday?
[20:08] <tsimonq2> Already, yeah.
[20:08] <valorie> and KCI is cooking again?
[20:09] <valorie> I love it
[20:09] <tsimonq2> If you mean that KCI is working, yep. :D
[20:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_calendarsupport build #3: FIXED in 13 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_calendarsupport/3/
[20:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kldap build #102: FIXED in 14 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kldap/102/
[20:23] <clivejo> tsimonq2: by listing them in the install file, it allows you to see changes in future.  So if files are added or removed it gets flagged up at build time and we can decide what to do about them
[20:24] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Ok, so should I now be more specific and cite *exact* files or should I just do directories like I did in my fix a little bit ago>
[20:24] <tsimonq2> s/>/?/
[20:24] <tsimonq2> s/cite/list/
[20:24] <clivejo> if more files are added we might decide to create a new package and move some over
[20:25] <tsimonq2> Well see my question. Should I list each file individually or should I do directories?
[20:25] <clivejo> well in that particular example I would probably wildcard some of them
[20:26] <clivejo> like usr/share/kdevsavesystemview/qml/CommitsView/
[20:26] <tsimonq2> Ok, so how did I do on that commit?
[20:26] <clivejo> and usr/share/plasmate/templates/
[20:26] <clivejo> but for the binaries I would state them by name
[20:27] <tsimonq2> What is considered a binary?
[20:27] <clivejo> things that are built
[20:27] <clivejo> usr/bin
[20:28] <clivejo> usr/lib
[20:28] <tsimonq2> So anything in those two directories should be explicity defined, you're saying?
[20:28] <clivejo> I would have left usr/lib/*/qt5/plugins/ktexteditor/cuttlefishplugin.so
[20:29] <clivejo> I would like to know if that file ever changed location
[20:31] <tsimonq2> Ok
[20:31] <tsimonq2> When it builds in the PPA and we get the file list, I'll fix it.
[20:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-sdk build #225: NOW UNSTABLE in 21 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-sdk/225/
[20:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_plasma-sdk build #119: NOW UNSTABLE in 21 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-sdk/119/
[20:32] <tsimonq2> Ah great...
[20:33] <clivejo> its unstable due to the lintian warnings
[20:33] <clivejo> http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-sdk/119/parsed_console/
[20:33] <tsimonq2> script-not-executable usr/share/applications/plasmate.desktop
[20:33] <tsimonq2> :/
[20:34] <tsimonq2> What do you suggest I do now?
[20:34] <tsimonq2> Attempt to create a debian patch *making* it executable?
[20:35] <clivejo> open a bug upstream and suggest them make it executable
[20:36] <tsimonq2> Ok, will do.
[20:36] <clivejo> but I dont know what plasmate is!
[20:36] <clivejo> research in most cases
[20:36] <clivejo> you could ask in kde-devel
[20:37] <clivejo> if its supposed to be executable or not
[20:37] <tsimonq2> Ok
[20:37] <clivejo> if it is not supposed to be, or doesnt need to be, then you could add a lintian ignore
[20:37] <tsimonq2> First
[20:37] <clivejo> but unstable isnt a problem
[20:37] <clivejo> its a warning
[20:37] <tsimonq2> If I do this, would this be sufficient?
[20:37] <tsimonq2> -usr/lib/*/qt5/plugins
[20:37] <tsimonq2> +usr/lib/*/qt5/plugins/kdevplatform/26/kdevplasmamanager.so
[20:37] <tsimonq2> +usr/lib/*/qt5/plugins/kdevsavesystemview.so
[20:37] <tsimonq2> +usr/lib/*/qt5/plugins/ktexteditor/cuttlefishplugin.so
[20:38] <clivejo> yeah, Id prefer that
[20:38] <tsimonq2> Ok, cool.
[20:38] <clivejo> now if a new plugin is added it will show us on a failed build
[20:38] <clivejo> just incase we need to do something about it
[20:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:39] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_calendarsupport build #3: FIXED in 21 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_calendarsupport/3/
[20:39] <tsimonq2> Ok
[20:45] <tsimonq2> clivejo: What should happen with kalarmcal?
[20:45] <tsimonq2> 23:27:29 KCI-E :: -./etc/xdg/kalarmcal.categories
[20:45] <tsimonq2> 23:27:29 KCI-E :: -./etc/xdg/kalarmcal.renamecategories
[20:45] <tsimonq2> Which package should those files go into?
[20:46] <clivejo> what install files do you have?
[20:46] <tsimonq2> libkf5alarmcalendar5.install and libkf5alarmcalendar-dev.install
[20:49] <valorie> !info plasmate
[20:49] <valorie> pfff
[20:49] <valorie> afaik it is a little thing that helps you build and test plasma widgets
[20:50] <valorie> dunno why it isn't a plugin to kdevelop
[20:50] <clivejo> what do you think those files are for?
[20:50] <clivejo> do they belong in a dev package?
[20:50] <tsimonq2> My guess is that these files should go in libkf5alarmcalendar-dev.install because it's similar to the other files in there.
[20:51] <clivejo> really?
[20:51] <tsimonq2> At least it
[20:51] <clivejo> /etc/xdg are usually config files
[20:51] <tsimonq2> *it's my *guess*.
[20:51] <tsimonq2> Yes.
[20:51] <tsimonq2> clivejo: So the other one instead then?
[20:51] <clivejo> more associated to runtime config
[20:52] <tsimonq2> Ok, so I'll add to libkf5alarmcalendar5.install.
[20:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[20:52] <clivejo> I would put them in libkf5alarmcalendar5.install
[20:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kmime build #78: FIXED in 11 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kmime/78/
[20:52] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_plasma-sdk build #226: STILL UNSTABLE in 12 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_plasma-sdk/226/
[20:53] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_plasma-sdk build #120: STILL UNSTABLE in 13 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_plasma-sdk/120/
[20:53] <clivejo> -dev packages are for development stuff
[20:58] <tsimonq2> clivejo: I'm bumping kleopatra's build deps to only grab GPGME 1.7.1 or greater, due to the new minimum requirement.
[20:58] <clivejo> whats the build dep?
[20:59] <tsimonq2> libgpgme11-dev
[20:59] <tsimonq2> clivejo: You got the email announcing that, right?
[20:59] <tsimonq2> So I just did this:
[20:59] <clivejo> ringing a faint bell
[20:59] <tsimonq2> -               libgpgme11-dev,
[20:59] <tsimonq2> +               libgpgme11-dev (>= 1.7.1~),
[20:59] <clivejo> !info libgpgme11-dev
[20:59] <clivejo> !info libgpgme12-dev
[20:59] <tsimonq2> clivejo: https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-distro-packagers/2016-October/000227.html
[21:00] <clivejo> who maintains it in Ubuntu
[21:02] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Apparently we just sync from Debian. who has a special team for that it seems.
[21:02] <clivejo> have they packaged the version we need?
[21:03] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Well according to upstream, 1.7.1 is not released yet, only 1.7.0.
[21:04] <tsimonq2> [2016-09-28] gpgme1.0 1.7.0-1 MIGRATED to testing (Debian testing watch)
[21:04] <tsimonq2> [2016-09-22] Accepted gpgme1.0 1.7.0-1 (source) into unstable (Daniel Kahn Gillmor)
[21:04] <tsimonq2> !info gpgme1.0 unstable
[21:04] <tsimonq2> !info libgpgme11-dev unstable
[21:04] <tsimonq2> clivejo: ^^^
[21:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kcoreaddons build #263: NOW UNSTABLE in 11 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kcoreaddons/263/
[21:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[21:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kcodecs build #269: FIXED in 11 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kcodecs/269/
[21:04] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kcoreaddons build #107: NOW UNSTABLE in 11 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kcoreaddons/107/
[21:05] <clivejo> curious
[21:06] <tsimonq2> clivejo: I assume you have eyes on kcoreaddons?
[21:06] <clivejo> Neon have forked it
[21:06] <clivejo> https://packaging.neon.kde.org/forks/gpgme.git/
[21:07] <clivejo> tsimonq2: Im just scanning for stuff I know have issues
[21:07] <tsimonq2> Ok.
[21:08] <tsimonq2> clivejo: But for now, Kleopatra should automatically start building again once we get the new gpgme1.0 in KCI.
[21:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kleopatra build #69: STILL FAILING in 3 min 52 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kleopatra/69/
[21:08] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kleopatra build #27: STILL FAILING in 3 min 55 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kleopatra/27/
[21:09] <clivejo> tsimonq2: you could grab the Neon packaging and build a temporary package, upload to your own PPA and copy it over to unstable when happy its building ok
[21:09] <clivejo> also open a bug to have it updated
[21:09] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Well since it's not released upstream yet, it won't be easy to do that...
[21:10] <tsimonq2> Might have to live in experimental.
[21:10] <clivejo> do you know how to open a bug on debian
[21:10] <tsimonq2> Yep.
[21:10] <clivejo> ok open it upstream too
[21:10] <clivejo> and link it to LP
[21:11] <tsimonq2> I don't see the use in it because it's not in a tagged release yet.
[21:11] <tsimonq2> They'll release 1.7.1 soon enough.
[21:11] <clivejo> well thats what I thought about libdrumstick
[21:11] <tsimonq2> Give me a refresher on that?
[21:12] <clivejo> if you had time, you could go upstream, poke the maintainer and help get it into debian
[21:12] <tsimonq2> ...an unreleased version?
[21:13] <clivejo> see if you can help getting it released
[21:14] <clivejo> the qt-kde guys will be interested in getting it sorted too I would think
[21:14] <tsimonq2> I just don't know if I should push upstream to release when this isn't a really big problem yet.
[21:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[21:14] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kalarmcal build #85: FIXED in 9 min 58 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kalarmcal/85/
[21:14] <tsimonq2> It's only required on master.
[21:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[21:15] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kalarmcal build #69: FIXED in 10 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kalarmcal/69/
[21:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kleopatra build #70: STILL FAILING in 3 min 49 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kleopatra/70/
[21:17] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kleopatra build #28: STILL FAILING in 3 min 55 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kleopatra/28/
[21:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_breeze-icons build #172: STILL FAILING in 4 min 10 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_breeze-icons/172/
[21:34] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_breeze-icons build #173: STILL FAILING in 5 min 9 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_breeze-icons/173/
[21:38] <valorie> tsimonq2: you could ask the devel when they plan to release?
[21:39] <valorie> if it's after April, then it's no problem
[21:39] <valorie> if before, it will be
[21:43] <tsimonq2> YEAH BOI
[21:43] <tsimonq2> Plasma 5.8.1 landing in Sid!
[21:45] <clivejo> nice
[21:45] <clivejo> its at times like this I dont like ubuntu's release cycle!
[21:45] <Snowhog> I've no idea exactly how many people are running Kubuntu Linux (who does, really?), but it's got to be a lot 'world wide'. I know I'm curious, even if most are not, but exactly how many people are actually responsible for making it available to 'the masses'?
[21:46] <mamarley> Is there any reason why 5.8.x can't be staged?  Is KCI still too broken to do that?
[21:46] <clivejo> mamarley: staging script works with dev version
[21:46] <clivejo> at the moment we dont have a dev version
[21:48] <mamarley> Could it not be rejiggered to have the version selected at runtime?
[21:48] <tsimonq2> clivejo: I think we should really look at eliminating that rule.
[21:48] <tsimonq2> Like seriously.
[21:49] <clivejo> rules or guidelines are usually there for a reason
[21:49] <tsimonq2> For this one, I don't see the reason...
[21:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[21:50] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_knotifications build #78: FIXED in 8 min 54 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_knotifications/78/
[21:50] <clivejo> just because the reason isnt obvious, doesnt mean its valid!
[21:50] <clivejo> invalid
[21:50] <Snowhog> clivejo: Also doesn't mean it is "still" valid.
[21:50] <tsimonq2> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[21:51] <clivejo> all I know is that its worked for many releases
[21:51] <clivejo> and you should plan your battles to win the war
[21:59] <valorie> would be so great to be able to sync 5.8.1 and get it into releases though
[21:59] <valorie> I want it soooooo bad
[22:00] <tsimonq2> Yeah
[22:02] <acheronuk> need to to it properly, otherwise we makes ourselves bigger headaches down the line. we found that with yakkety.
[22:02] <valorie> amen
[22:02] <acheronuk> as much as we may *want* it right now
[22:02] <valorie> would be good to have yofel chime in about now......
[22:02] <tsimonq2> ^
[22:06] <DarinMiller> valorie: what do you like about plasma 5.8.x?  I have it running a one of my boxes and other than the super key assigned to the menu, I do not notice much difference relative to 5.7.5.
[22:07] <valorie> because it's the newest!
[22:07] <valorie> and everybody else is getting it
[22:07]  * valorie is just being childish
[22:07] <valorie> but I do love running the latest
[22:08] <acheronuk> there are 2 more bug fix releases of 5.8 due this month 5.8.2 and 5.8.3 on Nov 1st
[22:09] <acheronuk> personally I think we should take a little time to plan and let kde fix some more release bugs on those
[22:10] <valorie> oh, I'm waiting
[22:11] <valorie> although I could install neon on my travel computer, just for testing
[22:11] <DarinMiller> I recommend waiting for at least 5.8.3 as plasma 5.8.9 in Neon still struggles with dual monitor/primary monitor assignments.
[22:11] <acheronuk> our packaging is out of sync with debian, so that probably needs sorting before we leap and stage too much
[22:13] <valorie> acheronuk: amen to that
[22:13] <valorie> first things first
[22:13] <valorie> imo getting all of our packages into XX backports if appropriate and YY releases would be a good first step
[22:14] <valorie> since we've already done the work
[22:14] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[22:15] <tsimonq2> I really think we need a lot of improvements in our workflow.
[22:15] <tsimonq2> Yakkety wasn't a good release because we had to cram everything in at the last minute.
[22:15] <tsimonq2> That's not acceptable.
[22:16] <acheronuk> nor is leaping to do something ad hoc just because you want something new and shiny
[22:17] <acheronuk> a sustainable middle ground is needed
[22:18] <mparillo> DarinMiller: I know you are not asking me, but one plus for 5.8.1 that I saw on Manjaro Unstable (and now landed in Manjaro Testing): SuperKey brings up the Kicker.
[22:19] <mparillo> From the end-userYakkety as a much better relase for me than Xenial was.
[22:19] <mparillo> end-user's PoV,
[22:19] <acheronuk> in lieu a formal planning meeting, I would like to get on BBB one evening this week to have a chat about this
[22:20] <valorie> tsimonq2: it's true that our workflow pretty much sucked at the end, but we've been working pretty hard to fix that
[22:20] <valorie> the lack of Kubuntu Developers lately has hurt
[22:20] <DarinMiller> mparillo: I totally agree with with the super key feature and the YY is much bettter than ZZ.
[22:20] <tsimonq2> Wasn't Xenial an even worse release on our side?
[22:21] <valorie> mparillo: I agree that Yakkety has been great, and even better then xenial
[22:21] <valorie> and xenial has been damn fine
[22:22] <acheronuk> to me it was not so much the workflow, but the inability to apply it that hurt
[22:22] <valorie> right
[22:24] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kcrash build #150: NOW UNSTABLE in 6 min 53 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kcrash/150/
[22:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[22:28] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kdgantt2 build #84: FIXED in 8 min 24 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kdgantt2/84/
[22:29] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_minuet build #25: STILL FAILING in 5 min 23 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_minuet/25/
[22:29] <Snowhog> What I 'hear' in this discussion, (assuming my hearing isn't going as is my sight) is a desire/need to change Kubuntu to a rolling release (as many users continually opine that is should be).
[22:31] <valorie> well, I like the latest
[22:31] <valorie> but I don't want to change us to rolling, no
[22:31] <valorie> there is neon for that
[22:31] <tsimonq2> ^
[22:31] <valorie> I want us to be excellent
[22:31] <acheronuk> kubuntu as a flavour of ubuntu is not rolling.
[22:31] <tsimonq2> Me too.
[22:32] <acheronuk> a rolling kubuntu would be something else
[22:32] <acheronuk> why try to ape Neon, when we can't beat them at their game?
[22:32] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[22:34] <valorie> there are lots of reasons I love not just the distro, but the community here
[22:34] <valorie> I'm happy that neon is having success, but that's separate from us
[22:35] <valorie> I want us to have fun and be successful doing *our* thing
[22:35] <Snowhog> Don't get me wrong; I also find Kubuntu Linux to be my preferred OS. I do have KDE neon in a VM, and I keep it up to date, but Kubuntu is my primary OS.
[22:36] <acheronuk> Snowhog: I have Neon dev-unstable on my laptop and am typing from it now
[22:36] <Snowhog> acheronuk: Yes, Developer Edition of KDE neon in my VM also.
[22:37] <acheronuk> I don't see a conflict there.
[22:37] <tsimonq2> So acheronuk already has Plasma 5.8. :D
[22:37] <acheronuk> I have plasma 5.8.90 :P
[22:37] <tsimonq2> oooOOOoo
[22:38] <acheronuk> my main PC is YY kubuntu though
[22:38] <tsimonq2> *16.10
[22:38] <tsimonq2> Shush with all the "YY" nonsense. :P
[22:39] <Snowhog> If I may ask, what is going to (continue to) distinquish Kubuntu Linux from KDE neon? If one compares them side by side, they 'look' very similar.
[22:40] <tsimonq2> Neon is rolling, we have releases
[22:40] <acheronuk> to be honest, so so most kde distros at the moment
[22:40] <tsimonq2> We focus on stability
[22:41] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_minuet build #26: STILL FAILING in 6 min 23 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_minuet/26/
[22:41] <tsimonq2> Neon is about getting things out to users fast
[22:42] <tsimonq2> Also, afair, KDE Neon doesn't ship Apps, but we do.
[22:42] <acheronuk> Neon is a dev tool that also has a user edition
[22:42] <acheronuk> Neon does most of the kde apps now
[22:43] <valorie> "some"
[22:43] <valorie> perhaps most or all at some point
[22:43] <mparillo> But speed in dropping KDE updates at the expense of supporting a wider variety of use cases. That is why they persist in claiming they are not a distro. What they mean is they do not support all the use cases a full-featured distro usually does.
[22:44] <valorie> that isn't their focus unless the devel of the app ask, or users ask
[22:44] <valorie> mparillo: exactly
[22:45] <acheronuk> indeed. a kubuntu user can pick what they like from the rest of ubuntu, and know it should work
[22:45] <acheronuk> even change DE without a reinstall or risk of big breakage
[22:45] <tsimonq2> Bah, let's just switch to Arch. :P
[22:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[22:45] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kwayland build #71: FIXED in 15 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kwayland/71/
[22:46] <Snowhog> I do understand that KDE neon was established for rapid testing of KDE, and that it isn't (even though many 'think' it is) a "distribution"; I keep telling those on our forum who believe otherwise, that it's a "repository".
[22:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[22:46] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kwayland build #204: FIXED in 15 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kwayland/204/
[22:46] <tsimonq2> Yeah.
[22:46] <tsimonq2> It's in a grey area.
[22:46] <acheronuk> Snowhog: yes, the forumites do see a tad obsessed with neon at the moment
[22:47] <acheronuk> *seem
[22:47] <valorie> it's the hot new thing
[22:48] <valorie> and I wish them the best
[22:48] <Snowhog> acheronuk: Well, partly/entirely, because it has the 'latest/greatest' and they wonder why such ins't available in Kubuntu. KDE neon as such, is/has become a double-edged sword.
[22:48] <valorie> but we have a large user base that we care about
[22:48] <valorie> Snowhog: yeah
[22:49] <Snowhog> "<valorie> but we have a large user base that we care about" -- And I/we really do appreciate that!
[22:49] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_breeze-icons build #288: STILL FAILING in 7 min 14 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_breeze-icons/288/
[22:52] <mparillo> I disagree. It was a repository when you added it to Kubuntu sources and apt update'd. Now that it is an installable ISO, of course it is a distro. The important messaging point is that it is not full-featured. It is there to test the latest and greatest KDE S/W. Just as there are many other distros targeted at a single use case (Penetration Testing, Disk Recovery, Network Sniffing, etc.)
[22:53] <mparillo> All of them are distros also, but they are not your daily 'runner'.
[22:53] <Snowhog> mparillo: Well, 'others' may claim it's a distro, but they who put it together insist it is not.
[22:54] <acheronuk> partly semantics and party politics
[22:54] <Snowhog> What KDE neon "is" is a tool.
[22:54] <Snowhog> A tool for their developers.
[22:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kgpg build #93: STILL FAILING in 4 min 48 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kgpg/93/
[22:54] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kgpg build #93: STILL FAILING in 4 min 52 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kgpg/93/
[22:55] <acheronuk> it has a user editions, but that is not really it's point
[22:58] <mparillo> I assume the worry is that if they admit it is a kde distro, and since they are the only distro that is a KDE project, then there will be a perception that Neon is THE KDE distro. And they (and KDE) want to stay a million miles from there.
[22:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kcrash build #274: UNSTABLE in 15 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kcrash/274/
[22:58] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_breeze-icons build #289: STILL FAILING in 4 min 3 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_breeze-icons/289/
[22:59] <mparillo> But sorry for taking this -offtopic
[22:59] <tsimonq2> IMHO this is on topic enough.
[23:00] <acheronuk> as I said the other day, I would actively like to do some stuff on Neon/KDE. hopefully for benefit going both ways
[23:01] <tsimonq2> I would personally rather go the Debian route.
[23:02] <acheronuk> I think any route you take is likely to be a bit circular in that respect anyway
[23:12] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kgpg build #94: STILL FAILING in 12 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kgpg/94/
[23:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Yippee, build fixed!
[23:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_bluez-qt build #299: FIXED in 28 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_bluez-qt/299/
[23:13] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kgpg build #94: STILL FAILING in 13 min: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kgpg/94/
[23:22] <clivejo> hi Vorap, shouldnt you be in bed?!?
[23:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kgpg build #95: STILL FAILING in 3 min 46 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kgpg/95/
[23:22] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kgpg build #95: STILL FAILING in 3 min 49 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kgpg/95/
[23:23] <tsimonq2> clivejo: shouldn't *YOU* be in bed?!? :P
[23:23] <clivejo> yes I should
[23:24] <clivejo> trying to get a few things sorted out
[23:24] <tsimonq2> OOH, what?
[23:25] <clivejo> list of stuff, cant remember
[23:28] <valorie> mparillo: any discussion of our mission and vision for Kubuntu is super-on-topic
[23:28] <tsimonq2> ^^^
[23:28] <tsimonq2> clivejo: *can't
[23:30] <valorie> pffff
[23:31] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project xenial_unstable_kgpg build #96: STILL FAILING in 3 min 45 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/xenial_unstable_kgpg/96/
[23:32] -kubuntu-ci:#kubuntu-devel- Project yakkety_unstable_kgpg build #96: STILL FAILING in 4 min 22 sec: http://kci.pangea.pub/job/yakkety_unstable_kgpg/96/
[23:39] <tsimonq2> clivejo: When you have a minute, could you please take a look at kde-baseapps?
[23:39] <clivejo> what do I need to look at?
[23:43] <clivejo> Debian ABI manager?
 I'm unsure why it's FTBFS
[23:46] <clivejo> santa_ had to use the Debian ABI manager to fix an ABI breakage
 OK, so then how is that fixed?
 I mean the FTBFS.
[23:49] <clivejo> well they have done a lot of work upstream
[23:49] <clivejo> https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kde-baseapps.git
[23:49] <acheronuk> kde-baseapps has now been ported AFAIK
[23:49] <clivejo> I would first of all remove the Debian ABI Manager
[23:49] <acheronuk> so yes ^^^
 How is that done?
[23:50] <acheronuk> did we not go over this the other day?
[23:52] <tsimonq2> I'm unsure.
[23:52] <acheronuk> I may have just been talking to clivejo
[23:52] <tsimonq2> Ok, when?
[23:55] <acheronuk> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/10/02/%23kubuntu-devel.html#t22:26
[23:55] <acheronuk> I was talking to you :P
[23:56] <clivejo> tsimonq2: great practice for you!
[23:57] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: that's not much
[23:57] <clivejo> I said it once and Ill say it again!
[23:57] <tsimonq2> clivejo: I thought you were talking about Akonadi symbols...
[23:57] <clivejo> no, was talking about removing the ABI manager, I think
[23:58] <acheronuk> Neon have already packaged the port, so you can have a loo at that if need be
[23:58] <acheronuk> *look
[23:59] <clivejo> if you dont know what the ABI Manager is, its worth a reading up on


[22:48] <thune3> btarik: gnome maintains it's own prefered browser which you can set with System->Preferences->Preferred applications. There is also gnome-www-browser "alternative", but I don't if it is used.
[22:48] <robotti^> hi
[22:48] <benedict> hi @ all
[22:48] <robotti^> how to fix broken ubuntu?
[22:48] <robotti^> xorg does not start
[22:49] <robotti^> after update
[22:49] <mattwj2002> robotti^ I know the solution
[22:49] <robotti^> mattwj2002: you know?
[22:49] <mattwj2002> video drivers probably
[22:49] <mattwj2002> I have ran into that
[22:50] <toader> hi, I have file test1.txt, test2.txt, ...., test700.txt. I want to list the file test1, ..., test150.txt for example. How to write the command? thanks. I try the command "ls test[1-150].txt", but it doesn't work.
[22:50] <robotti^> mattwj2002: yes. it is trying to use nvidia hardware with nvidia drivers
[22:50] <mattwj2002> did you get a new version of the kernel by chance?
[22:50] <robotti^> maybe
[22:50] <Dr_Willis> toader:  you mean show all file names on one line?
[22:50] <robotti^> mattwj2002: it just say, must reboot
[22:50] <robotti^> and after reboot I cannot use X anymore
[22:51] <mattwj2002> yeah try rebooting into recovery mode
[22:51] <robotti^> and after that?
[22:51] <mattwj2002> for the most recent kernel
[22:51] <mattwj2002> and reinstall your drivers
[22:51] <Tempus_> How do I add Firestarter to startup Items
[22:51] <ActionParsnip> toader: ls text*.txt
[22:51] <robotti^> mattwj2002: how that helps?
[22:52] <Dr_Willis> ActionParsnip:  with enough files taht can overload teh command line buffer for bash i recall. (command line too long)
[22:52] <robotti^> mattwj2002: where I can chose recovery mode?
[22:52] <xiaoshoubinglian> da jia hao you kan dong de ma ?
[22:52] <Dr_Willis> ActionParsnip:  i was thinking 'echo *.txt' but that has the same issue.. :)
[22:52] <mattwj2002> because that'll create video modules for new kernel
[22:52] <mattwj2002> it is the second option
[22:52] <robotti^> mattwj2002: on boot?
[22:52] <Peter|laptop> Hello, I just attempted to install ubuntu using a CD and wubi, both times I can not connect to the internet even though my laptop says I have full signal
[22:53] <mattwj2002> correct
[22:53] <mattwj2002> you select it with grub
[22:53] <mattwj2002> I think it is called recovery
[22:53] <robotti^> mattwj2002: I have usb keyboard, and computer cannot use usb keyboard until kernel is booted.
[22:53] <Xase> again
[22:53] <Xase> I  iterate...
[22:53] <mattwj2002> oh crap
[22:53] <mattwj2002> no ps2 keyborad?
[22:53] <Xase> Best way to determine correct mode for hdtv?
[22:53] <Dr_Willis> robotti^:  ive seen that issue also. In the BIOS there may be a 'legacy' usb setting you need to change.
[22:53] <mattwj2002> *keyboard
[22:53] <ActionParsnip> Xase: read your manual
[22:53] <mattwj2002> oh yeah that too :)
[22:53] <robotti^> that is quite old computer
[22:54] <Xase> I dead rtm.
[22:54] <Xase> rtfm*
[22:54] <Xase> It's the TV itself.
[22:54] <Xase> I don'
[22:54] <Xase> tt hav a manual
[22:54] <Xase> I bought it second hand.
[22:54] <ActionParsnip> Xase: then that will give resolutions and refresh rathes which you can accommodate in an xorg.conf
[22:54] <robotti^> mattwj2002: I just try with older kernel?
[22:54] <Xase> ...
[22:54] <Xase> No it wount.
[22:54] <ActionParsnip> Xase: why not?
[22:55] <mattwj2002> that will work
[22:55] <mattwj2002> too
[22:55] <Xase> My tv is the manual... it turns on and works, that's all I know.
[22:55] <mattwj2002> but you don't want that as a permanent solution
[22:55] <Xase> I am about to starttweaking around with xrandr in a minute or so.
[22:55] <ActionParsnip> Xase: then go online and see the refresh rates and resolutions it can do
[22:55] <mattwj2002> I think the older version of the kernel will still work
[22:55] <mattwj2002> but.....
[22:56] <mattwj2002> ultimately you need to reinstall the drivers for the newer kernel
[22:56] <Xase> second hand... the only thing with it was the power cord
[22:56] <Xase> no labels...
[22:56] <Xase> so no model number
[22:57] <robotti^> mattwj2002: can I reinstall gpu drivers on under newer kernel?
[22:57] <ActionParsnip> Xase: the model number will be on a sticker no the back
[22:57] <gfx0> Hi. What is the easiest way to access the x-server of my ubuntu machine with a windows client? so far I tried vnc4server but I only seem to get a shell window and not the whole desktop when I'm connecting.
[22:57] <ActionParsnip> *on
[22:57] <ActionParsnip> gfx0: putty + xming
[22:57] <mattwj2002> yes you can
[22:58] <mattwj2002> do you have the file saved?
[22:58] <mattwj2002> the installation file I mean
[22:58] <ActionParsnip> gfx0: will allow you to x forward, you can launch apps from the putty session and they will appear on the local system
[22:58] <mattwj2002> for the gpu
[22:58] <Tempus_> what does the command "finger" do and how is it used properly
[22:59] <robotti^> mattwj2002: i am not sure
[22:59] <mattwj2002> okay how about this
[22:59] <Xase> no labels... no sticker
[22:59] <mattwj2002> reload your computer
[22:59] <jasonwryan> Tempus_: man finger
[22:59] <ActionParsnip> Tempus_: The finger utility displays information about the system users.
[22:59] <woah> hey guys, for Some reason Ubuntu is using too much ram, http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3616/ubuntu.jpg what can i kill from these processes?
[23:00] <robotti^> mattwj2002: maybe some good sleep will help
[23:00] <mattwj2002> pick the third option
[23:00] <mattwj2002> that should be your old kernel
[23:00] <mattwj2002> :)
[23:00] <Xase> old on... calling the guy who sold it to me.
[23:00] <ActionParsnip> woah: do you use evolution?
[23:00] <robotti^> mattwj2002: if I boot with my old kernel, it should work?
[23:00] <Xase> its atc p4c2 panasonic viera
[23:00] <woah> im afraid to kill anythibg sensitive
[23:00] <mattwj2002> it should work but
[23:00] <Xase> TC-p42c2*
[23:00] <robotti^> mattwj2002: X should start on boot?
[23:01] <mattwj2002> I am not sure
[23:01] <woah> ActionParsnip, the mail client?
[23:01] <ActionParsnip> woah: yes
[23:01] <mattwj2002> you have to use that to download you drivers to get your new kernel going
[23:01] <mattwj2002> :)
[23:01] <woah> no, i dont
[23:01] <mattwj2002> let me know if it does
[23:01] <mattwj2002> or doesn't
[23:01] <Xase> Cant find the stuff...
[23:01] <Xase> Stupid google.
[23:02] <Xase> it;s got a 600 hz refresh rate is all I know.
[23:02] <Xase> Also..  all the information says 1280x720 but hats wrong
[23:02] <Xase> because my  ps3 and xbox detect it as 1080p
[23:02] <Xase> but the overscan is gay.
[23:03] <mattwj2002> robotti^: any luck?
[23:03] <ActionParsnip> woah: theres a lot of evolution going on there, remove it. One of the evolution packages is a dep of gnome-panel so watch that
[23:03] <robotti^> mattwj2002: maybe I should find some cd-r and burn ubuntu there and reinstall ubuntu
[23:03] <Xase> Isn't there used to be a manual xconfi?
[23:03] <Xase> xconfig*
[23:03] <Xase> where it allows you to select resoloution and refresh rates?
[23:03] <mattwj2002> it didnt work?
[23:03] <Tempus_> ActionParsnip: does it only apply to users in a current chatroom or can it be applied to an IP
[23:04] <mattwj2002> no need robotti^
[23:04] <woah> ActionParsnip, which one?
[23:04] <mattwj2002> it is fixable
[23:04] <robotti^> mattwj2002: maybe on next morning :)
[23:04] <robotti^> I am too tired to fix
[23:04] <robotti^> fix my sytem
[23:04] <robotti^> system
[23:04] <mattwj2002> did your old kernel work?
[23:04] <robotti^> typing errors too
[23:04] <mattwj2002> :)
[23:04] <mattwj2002> okay
[23:05] <mattwj2002> well I can't say if I'll be around but someone should be able to help you
[23:05] <robotti^> mattwj2002: I cannot boot with old kernel, because I cannot find my ps2 keyboard
[23:05] <mattwj2002> tell them you need to reinstall your graphics drivers!
[23:05] <mattwj2002> oh yeah
[23:05] <mattwj2002> that is right
[23:05] <ActionParsnip> woah: it's evolution-data-server-common. you have to keep that
[23:05] <mattwj2002> you need to go into bios so you can use your keyboard
[23:05] <mattwj2002> but
[23:05] <ActionParsnip> Tempus_: ?
[23:06] <mattwj2002> if you need to go to bed there is always in the morning :)
[23:06] <robotti^> mattwj2002: I am also quite tired for fixing my Ubuntu installation
[23:06] <robotti^> mattwj2002: after good sleep I can do it
[23:06] <mattwj2002> okay :)
[23:06] <Xase> can xorg utilize my 600hz refresh rate?
[23:06] <mattwj2002> have a good night!
[23:06] <mattwj2002> bye robotti^
[23:06] <robotti^> :)
[23:07] <Tempus_> ActionParsnip: well my ? is say for example I am in this chatroom would it only work to "finger" users in this room or does it work to "finger" anyone anywhere...sorry I am still learning
[23:07] <thune3> woah: on a system with 256MB physical memory (is that right?) having spamassasin clamav amavis and all that other virus stuff running seems pretty heavy. I might stop those services if you are in a present pinch.
[23:07] <ActionParsnip> Tempus_: i believe its for systems on a lan
[23:08] <chris_osx> thune3: you can finger anyone from your terminal
[23:08] <rocode> thune3, my dedicated box is currently running several web services, including snort and spamassasin, without heavy usage. Are you sure it is those processess?
[23:09] <woah> thune3, i dont mind shutting them down as long as it doesnt affect the system.. i wont have physical access to it for couple of weeks
[23:09] <woah> so safe to kill clamav?
[23:09] <Tempus_> ActionParsnip: so its an internal program to find users on a network...i.e a big company??
[23:09] <dickybob> no
[23:10] <dickybob> clamav sucks
[23:10] <dickybob> why would you use that?
[23:10] <ActionParsnip> woah: you'll lose live file checks
[23:10] <rocode> woah, depends, are you running email off of this box?
[23:10] <woah> no im not.. i was at some point though
[23:10] <rocode> Because the only reason you should be running clamav is to make sure you aren't passing on windows viruses.
[23:10] <ActionParsnip> Tempus_: yeah man, you finger client systems to see who's logged on
[23:11] <woah> ActionParsnip, i didnt get what you mean
[23:11] <Tempus_> ActionParsnip: ok cool ty
[23:11] <woah> rocode, no im not.. i was at some point though
[23:12] <rocode> woah, then I would recommend not running services you don't have an immediate use for, unless you are passing files, such as attachments, from this box.
[23:12] <love5> howdy all
[23:12] <thune3> woah: depending on how they were started (upstart/init.d), you could just stop the services 'stop servicename' for upstart, or /etc/init.d/servicescript stop .
[23:12] <fidelix_> Can someone help me to set my DNS server on my Ubuntu vps?
[23:13] <Xase>  okay... how can i freaking test resolutions using xrandr?
[23:13] <us3rX> Just installed Ubuntu again... 10.04 on the Acer Aspire one and downloading large amounts of files causes the wifi to dc then about 10-20 seconds later it comes back... any ideas?
[23:14] <ActionParsnip> fidelix_: sudo nano /etc/resolv.conf       add these 2 lines: nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>             nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>    save the file and you will be fine
[23:15] <e66> how do i check which version of libcairo I am using from console?
[23:15] <oscar-halle> Wenn der bot hier ChanServ heißt, dann bin ich ja von Pontius zu Pilatus gereist. Dann bin ich wohl verkehrt hier. Anstatt mir zu helfen, wurde ich rausgeschmissen, weil ich mich gegen "Bastard-Ubuntu-Vorwürfe wehren mußte. Sehr nett nebenan bei #ubuntu-de!
[23:15] <fidelix_> ActionParsnip: i dont think you undertood. hehehe. I want to create a DNS server, not to use one.
[23:15] <cowboy> hola
[23:15] <fidelix_> Using Bind9
[23:15] <ActionParsnip> fidelix_: i see
[23:16] <e66> how do i check which version of libcairo I am using from console?
[23:16] <Guest56191> as
[23:16] <Guest56191> g
[23:16] <Guest56191> a
[23:16] <Guest56191> a
[23:16] <Guest56191> sx
[23:16] <Guest56191> xsxs
[23:16] <FloodBot2> Guest56191: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation.
[23:17] <e66> why this room is so quite
[23:17]  * spinningcompass notes that e e cummings will never get decent technical support online
[23:17] <Dr_Willis> e66:  its not. :)
[23:18] <Dr_Willis> e66:  use the package manager tools and see what you have installed.  or check the file name/# in  your lib dirs
[23:18] <Dr_Willis> !find libcairo
[23:19] <us3rX> Anyone know what would cause the wifi to give out in 10.04 on a netbook while downloading semi-large files? Just did a fresh install and the updates are trying to download... it downloads about 30-40mb then the wifi dc's and then reconnects... >.>
[23:19] <Dr_Willis> !info  libcairo2
[23:19] <Oer> e66 aptitude show <package-name> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
[23:20] <e66> found it. 1.8.10-2ubuntu1 Thanks Oer  Dr_Willis
[23:20] <e66> Oer++
[23:20] <Xase>       whats the name of the administation optio nthat fconfigures vnc, like the name of te app itself.
[23:20] <e66> Dr_Willis++
[23:20] <Xase> for instance changing the background alls gnome-appearance-properties
[23:20] <Dr_Willis> e66:  thats the version in the repos.. the version yopu have - MAY not be the lastest or same
[23:21] <Xase> or you can call gnome-display-properties...
[23:21] <Xase> whats the one for remote connections?
[23:21] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: if your server acquires DNS servers using DHCP, resolv.conf will be overwritten next time it acquires a release. if you want to permanently add custom servers, add them using prepend lines in /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf ..
[23:21] <e66> Dr_Willis:  I used the aptitude command.
[23:21] <Xase> its not present in my menu as im using unr
[23:21] <Dr_Willis> vnc has some config files in /etc/  to set its vnc defaultx Xase  - but it depends on which vncserver you are using  i recall.
[23:21] <Dr_Willis> Xase:  you are refering to the GNOME vnc built in server feature?
[23:22] <Xase> Well whats the default app that vinagre uses to connect that shows up in the admin menu?
[23:22] <ilovefairuz> us3rX: pastebin: lshw -C network
[23:22] <Dr_Willis> Xase:  that would be 'vino' i recall
[23:22] <Xase> I guess... whatever vinagre uses
[23:22] <Dr_Willis> not on gnome- so i cant double check.
[23:22] <Dr_Willis> Plus i dont thinkl its in the normal gnome menus either.
[23:23] <Xase> no there is no vino.
[23:23] <us3rX> ilovefairuz; one sec.
[23:23] <Xase> It was in9.10
[23:23] <Xase> thats how i even know about vinagre.
[23:23] <Xase> it is available on my desktop but that's in disrpair
[23:23] <Xase> so i cannot check
[23:23] <Xase> theres a gui that configures remote desktop settings that was available in at least 9.10
[23:24] <ilovefairuz> !enter | Xase
[23:24] <us3rX> ilovefairuz: http://pastebin.com/4fsJKr8B
[23:25] <fidelix_> ilovefairuz: u did not understood also.
[23:25] <fidelix_> I have a VPS, hosting several websites.
[23:25] <Xase> Sorry... I'm unched ove in front of my dresser and in trepiating pain from being hunched over
[23:25] <fidelix_> These websites have to be found somehow.
[23:25] <fidelix_> And i'm gonna need bind or buy a DNS hosting for that
[23:25] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: do you want to map domains to different sites hosted on the VPS?
[23:25] <Xase> I cant even see what I'm typing on the creen
[23:25] <fidelix_> Yes.
[23:25] <e66> is there any kde front end for GIT, something like Kdesvn?
[23:26] <fidelix_> Even if it was only 1 domain, i would still need bind
[23:26] <RickX> join #joomla
[23:27] <Dr_Willis> Xase:  command seems to be vino-perferances here
[23:27] <thune3> us3rX: i've seen someone overcome a similar problem with ath5k by installing linux-backports-modules-wireless-lucid-generic
[23:27] <thune3> us3rX: YMMV see http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Download
[23:27] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: depends on what server you're using, if you're using apache, use virtualhosts, lighttpd has a couple of modules to do it, i usually use mod_simple_vhost
[23:27] <us3rX> thune3: i'll try that thanks =)
[23:27] <fidelix_> True.
[23:28] <fidelix_> But what about mx records?
[23:28] <fidelix_> wildcard subdomains?
[23:28] <tyler_d> my ubuntu 10.04 freezes on bootup, just gets to the ubuntu splash with all of the "dots" filled in, then won't continue?
[23:28] <fidelix_> Not possible only with apache
[23:28] <Xase> Hmm
[23:28] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: you should install a web interface to manage the server like webmin and it will handle apache configuration
[23:28] <Xase> Lemme check that dr
[23:28] <Xase> Dr_Willis,
[23:28] <fidelix_> I know how to configure apache
[23:28] <bLfH> hello erveryone. im using ubuntu server and have an error with python. im not sure though, where to go with this error. can you help me? a program i wrote in python worked for several years, now it produces the following error: *** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/python: free(): invalid pointer: 0x08e18de0 ***
[23:28] <fidelix_> Well, i dont use it anyway
[23:29] <fidelix_> I use nginx, and i have several sites working already on my server
[23:29] <_DGM_> ilovefairuz: webmin is not officially supported here. And i know it wont work out of the box, you'll have to modify some config stuff to make things work. Most likely not all modules will work
[23:29] <vincy> raazi o un problema
[23:29] <vincy> o la cairo dock
[23:29] <fidelix_> The problem is, mx records dont work, and some people on some zones cant access my site. Cuz i'm using a free dns hosting at freedns.ws
[23:30] <vincy> è attorno mi fà tuttno nere
[23:30] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: if you want a simple easy to configure DNS server, use dnsmasq, otherwise, use bind but that's if you need a DNS server at all, you could just point all the domains to the same IP from the registrar
[23:30] <vincy> prima non lo faceva
[23:30] <vincy> adesso si
[23:30] <_DGM_> vincy: english please...
[23:30] <fidelix_> Not that simple ilovefairuz.
[23:30] <ilovefairuz> _DGM_: well I don't use it, but I was mentioning it as one possible way to configure servers graphically
[23:30] <bLfH> can someone help me with my question?
[23:30] <_DGM_> yep and it works alright, just not out of the box right away :)
[23:31] <fidelix_> as i said... i need wildcard subdomains, i need mx records for all domains.
[23:31] <_DGM_> though i think the dns module works fine
[23:31] <Xase> 0Sweet thanks DR_willis
[23:31] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: then use bind
[23:31] <Xase> Now I canuse iTeleport on my ipod to connect.
[23:31] <Xase> Or so I hope
[23:31] <Xase> Now it's stuck on authenticating
[23:31] <fidelix_> OK. Could you please help me setting bind?
[23:31] <daniele> welcome
[23:32] <daniele> list film sever
[23:32] <fidelix_> Or point me to a cheap&good dns hosting
[23:33] <Xase> DR_willis... you thankfully are the on;y person helped me with anything to day.
[23:33] <Xase> Now thanks to you... one object of my desire is complete
[23:33] <Xase> I can now control ubuntu with my ipod.
[23:33] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: no need for either, simply use a web management interface to save your time, sure there are few alternatives to cpanel
[23:34] <fidelix_> I have webmin installed, but i still dont know how to configure bind.
[23:34] <Dr_Willis> fidelix_:  theres entire boosk written on using/configuring bind.
[23:34] <Xase> sweet i am now typing fro
[23:34] <Xase> m my ipod
[23:34] <Luukje> bbl
[23:34] <Jinxzs> #lug-cebu
[23:35] <fidelix_> Dr_Willis: saying that does not help.
[23:35] <Xase> now to discover how to fix my damn resolution
[23:35] <Jinxzs> what is the code to go to other channel
[23:35] <psycho_oreos> !offtopic | Jinxzs
[23:35] <Dr_Willis> fidelix_:  you expect us here in IRC to give you a 'configure bind in 10 sec' summary? or what excactly?
[23:35] <fidelix_> I want my sites to work and thats all, i dont need to manage a hosting corp so i dont need to read a fu**** book.
[23:35] <Dr_Willis> fidelix_:  i dont even know why youa re using bind at all.
[23:36] <bj0> I did a dist-upgrade on ubuntu server, and it said mdadm broke, when I try to reinstall/reconfigure mdadm, it just gives me errors.  I kind of need mdadm to boot off my raid array, is there a way to fix it?
[23:36] <LetsGo67> How do I fix the GRUB error "no such partition" upon boot?  Please help me, I have Ubuntu and Win 7!
[23:36] <fidelix_> So, why should i use Dr_Willis?
[23:36] <fidelix_> *what should i use.
[23:36] <Dr_Willis> fidelix_:  why are you needing it? what are you doing thasts so special you need your own dns server?
[23:36] <Jinxzs> !pm | Jinxzs
[23:36] <fidelix_> Dr_Willis: i have a VPS hosting package. And i host several sites of mine in it.
[23:37] <fidelix_> For each of these sites, i need wildcard subdomain functionality, and MX records for each of them
[23:37] <fidelix_> This is not possible with any free dns provider nor with direct IP from registar
[23:37] <Dr_Willis> sounds like you may be needing to read some docs on bind then.  Theres also proberly a bind specif channel.
[23:38] <fidelix_> Dude, setting a bind server cant be that hard. I did it once but one of my sites remained inaccessible but the main worked just fine.
[23:40] <Xase> sweet i am now typing froNo suggestions on how to discovrr the correct mode for my tv? i cannot find anythi g out about this tv a d according to the internet my tv is only cqpable of 720 which is incorrext
[23:40] <daniele> list server film
[23:42] <psycho789> what are the chances of me catching a virus using ub
[23:42] <Xase> slim to none
[23:43] <razz1> anyone here using x11vnc, I would like to know how to set it up so that it runs as a service on the remote system
[23:43] <LetsGo67> How do I fix the GRUB error "no such partition" upon boot?  Please help me, I have Ubuntu and Win 7!
[23:43] <Xase> theres like what only a couple hundred severe nix viruses that are barely functional these saya as it is
[23:43] <edbian> psycho789, Linux in general is a much more secure operating system than windows.  You basically don't need to worry about it.
[23:43] <psycho789> so should i not worry about installing an antivirus
[23:43] <edbian> psycho789, There are a couple hundred proof on concept viruses.  There are 0 known viruses in the wild.
[23:43] <Xase> days^
[23:43] <edbian> psycho789, No.
[23:44] <rdw200169> psycho789: i don't think there *is* a antivirus for ubuntu...
[23:44] <psycho789> ok thanks guys
[23:44] <Xase> no unless you want to be sure youre not giving any eindows using friends a  irus
[23:44] <Xase> there is an antiviruz right in synaptic
[23:44] <Xase> its called libclamav
[23:45] <bj0> razz1, you could set up an xinetd entry for it
[23:45] <razz1> bjo,
[23:45] <razz1> bjo, xinetd, any links  to documentation
[23:46] <Xase> well if anyone can help me eith hdtv resolutions PLEASE pm me
[23:46] <rdw200169> Xase: but isn't clamav just a e-mail scanner?  i hate calling it an 'antivirus' when its more of a server-side tool
[23:46] <bj0> razz1, i'd just google x11vnc xinetd, there's probably several howtos
[23:47] <bj0> its easy, you just aptitude install xinetd, then create an x11vnc entry in /etc/xinetd.d/
[23:47] <razz1> bjo, googling now
[23:48] <Dr_Willis> razz1:  you could set up gdm to autolog in to the user you want and set Gnme to  share teh desktop by default also.
[23:48] <Dr_Willis> If you are using GNOME that is..
[23:49] <bj0> dist-upgrade broke my mdadm package, I have a  feeling if I try to reboot my machine won't come back up
[23:50] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: sorry, i had a power cut, what was your last question?
[23:51] <fidelix_> I said: I have webmin installed, but i still dont know how to configure bind.
[23:51] <ilovefairuz> i asked another person to pastebin his wireless information, don't remember the name
[23:51] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: what's your current configuration? and what are you trying to accomplish ?
[23:52] <fidelix_> I just want my site to be accessible on the internet with these functionalities i told you.
[23:52] <Slart> !webmin | fidelix_
[23:52] <Xase> i guess so
[23:53] <markie-> When i play a sound file, it plays through both the speaker and the earphones, how do have it just play thru the earphones
[23:53] <fidelix_> Slart: ebox does not work with bind
[23:53] <ilovefairuz> fidelix_: describe exactly what do you want, with usage examples
[23:53] <fidelix_> And webmin works well with bind from what i heard
[23:53] <Arnoob> Some the update files are marked as (new install). what does this means?
[23:53] <Slart> fidelix_: that doesn't make webmin any better.. it's still unsupported and not recommended
[23:54] <Slart> fidelix_: I'm not saying webmin will automatically destroy your system.. some functionality might still work.. you have been warned though
[23:54] <fidelix_> So what should i do, use ebox to do nothing or use command line because you say so?
[23:55] <fidelix_> If you instruct me on accomplishing what i need with ssh, i sure will do thing manually.
[23:55] <Slart> fidelix_: I would recommend configuring bind some other way
[23:55] <fidelix_> I prefer doing it by hand, but i have not the knowledge to do so.
[23:55] <Slart> fidelix_: I'm not handy with bind so I can't help you with any specifics.. but perhaps someone else can help you
[23:55] <razz1> Dr_Willis: your idea sounds interesting,  I am using gnome, how can gnome share the desktop by default won't it need a vnc server?  I am fairly new to this
[23:56] <fidelix_> ok. I'll read some docs on bind.
[23:56] <tripelb> What next please?  --> How do I get a new SATA drive recognized enough to install on it. I found it in gparted and did Device>Create Partition table.
[23:56] <fidelix_> Thank you all.
[23:57] <mgolisch> tripelb: install what on it?
[23:57] <Arnoob> Slart Some the update files are marked as (new install). what does this means?
[23:57] <Xase> please dont log in as root
[23:57] <Dr_Willis> razz1:  gnome has a vncserver built in. look in the users settings menu
[23:57] <spinningcompass> tripelb: If Ubuntu detects it, it's usable.
[23:57] <Slart> Arnoob: huh? where?
[23:58] <Arnoob> from the update manager
[23:58] <ActionParsnip> hey guys, is there a client app for transmission which will talk to a transmission server, kinda like transdroid on android?
[23:58] <Dr_Willis> they are new packages. not 'old ones being upgraded' i think that  means.
[23:59] <Xase> a ction what about the transmission webgui?
[23:59] <razz1> Dr_Willis: at present  I use the default vino server, not happy with it, that's why looking for other options.
[23:59] <Slart> Arnoob: oh.. that might be the case if an old package only require packages X and Y but the updated package needs package X, Y and Z. then Z will be listed as a new install since it wasn't installed before the update