[00:00] <cjwatson> Varies from country to country I believe
[00:00]  * xnox was reading WP about all of that as well
[00:01]  * xnox adds a TODO item to create a wiki page for cjwatson, if scott has one with out of date picture so can cjwatson ;-)
[00:04] <cjwatson> I think you should beware WP:COI.  I wouldn't encourage anyone I worked with closely to write an article about me
[00:04] <SpamapS> cjwatson: the packages cache generation is really really fast, don't think it has much fruit for optimization
[00:04] <slangasek> since you wouldn't encourage it, there's no conflict of interest ;-)
[00:04] <SpamapS> user	0m0.056s
[00:05] <SpamapS> cjwatson: 163926 packages in 0.056s .. ;)
[00:05] <cjwatson> And of course WP:BIO
[00:05] <cjwatson> SpamapS: Huh, so why do I notice occasional ridiculous slowdown
[00:06] <cjwatson> Maybe the cache directory layout (such as it isn't) is poorly designed
[00:06] <SpamapS> cjwatson: the source cache does a sort.. testing that now
[00:07] <cjwatson> Mm, no custom sort functions though
[00:07] <cjwatson> s/functions/comparators/
[00:08] <SpamapS> yeah its blazing fast too
[00:10] <cjwatson> and yet
[00:10] <cjwatson> $ time HOME=/home/ubuntu-archive/www-data madison-lite --nocache man-db
[00:10] <cjwatson> real    0m52.245s
[00:10] <cjwatson> that's fairly ridiculous
[00:10] <SpamapS> hm
[00:10] <cjwatson> (also no output, there's evidently a correctness problem as well :-/)
[00:12] <cjwatson> well, I should be doing a couple of other things before going to bed.  let me know if you come up with anything
[00:13] <SpamapS> cjwatson: will do :)
[00:23] <cjwatson> lifeless: I've reproduced your GRUB regression in a horrendously hacked-up VM, so I should be able to sort it out from here
[00:24] <lifeless> cjwatson: \o/
[00:24] <cjwatson> lifeless: Ended up simulating all the dmraid stuff with manual dmsetup commands, which isn't good enough to allow dmraid -ay to work but it is enough to brainwash GRUB
[00:24] <lifeless> cjwatson: let me know when you think its good and I'll get you a positive confirmation :)
[00:24] <cjwatson> Righto
[00:39] <cjwatson> lifeless: All right, fix (hopefully) uploaded - I'll check back tomorrow morning and let you know if it's built
[00:39] <lifeless> okeydoky
[00:41] <cjwatson> Fix was dropping a bit of the patch :)
[06:13] <queency> hello all i'm using ubuntu9/04 can someone direct me to install power save to my machine
[06:17] <tjaalton> queency: that release was EOL'd almost two years ago..
[06:18] <queency> tjaalton: yes so ? why everybody keeps bugging me to upgrade ? everything works fine!
[06:19] <tjaalton> queency: don't expect to get any sort of support for it
[06:19] <tjaalton> like, security updates
[06:19] <tjaalton> or guidance
[06:21] <queency> tjaalton: security i'm behind a firewall i.e i don't afraid , guidance whats wrong with small tips here and then ?
[06:22] <tjaalton> queency: power management is built in. if your machine doesn't have it, it could be better in a more recent release. so my free tip is: please upgrade
[06:22] <queency> tjaalton: btw i don't run services in my private lab ubuntu 9.04 and i'm monitor my net steadily : i just don't familier with all the task yet !
[06:22] <queency> tjaalton: tnx but no tnx
[06:23] <queency> tjaalton: is the power save manipulated by the kernel ?
[06:24] <tjaalton> queency: i've nothing to add
[06:25] <queency> tjaalton:ok tnx for your time , i'm sorry but i like my system to be intact and upgrading however solve things but brake others.
[06:25] <tjaalton> use an lts release like 10.04/12.04
[06:26] <queency> tjaalton: even my monitor driver was patched by me manually from 2 years ago : upgrading will screw it up !
[06:26] <tjaalton> sure about it?
[06:28] <queency> tjaalton: don't want to check if i right
[06:29] <tjaalton> there are livecd's for that
[06:33] <queency> tjaalton: i don't say live cd won't work i just say i don't know what happened with upgrading my old system ; not installing a new one
[06:37] <RAOF> Is it still possible to upgrade from 9.04?
[06:39] <tjaalton> dunno
[06:39] <ajmitch> perhaps with dist-upgrade & adding old-releases.u.c into sources.list
[06:39] <tjaalton> yeah
[06:40] <RAOF> Anyone feel like sponsoring a colord upload to sid?
[06:43] <didrocks> slangasek: tjaalton: hey, you have a WI on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-xorg-lts-updates to review the rename script, do you think you will get a chance to deal with it?
[06:44] <tjaalton> didrocks: sure
[06:44] <tjaalton> now that it seems to be working fine, might just mark it DONE
[06:44] <RAOF> pitti: feel like sponsoring a colord upload to sid?
[06:45] <didrocks> tjaalton: great! :)
[06:45] <didrocks> thank
[06:45] <didrocks> thanks*
[06:46] <dholbach> good morning
[06:53] <pitti> Good morning
[06:54] <pitti> SpamapS: I guess dpm uploaded them; we do that in regular intervals, and yes, they should just be waved through (there's a whole testing process behind that)
[06:55] <pitti> RAOF: yep, can do
[06:55] <RAOF> pitti: Ta. It's in collab-maint git; you're looking for the debian/0.1.21-2 tag.
[07:25] <darkxst> anyone know how to install a mainline kernel into a livecd chroot?
[07:26] <pitti> SpamapS, infinity: hm, I've got mail from dpm that he didn't upload these either
[07:27] <pitti> infinity: do you remember, were these proper uploads or copies from a PPA?
[07:33] <jibel> pitti, I enabled quantal-proposed for autopkgtest. There are now 2 sets of tests: one with packages in the release pocket, the other with proposed
[07:33] <jibel> tests in proposed are triggered when a newer version of a package is uploaded to proposed
[07:33] <pitti> jibel: niiice!
[07:33] <jibel> or a newer version of a dependency of a package in release is uploaded to proposed
[07:33] <jibel> or a newer version of a dependency is uploaded to release and the package is in proposed
[07:34] <jibel> pitti, sound good ? or I missed other rules ?
[07:34] <pitti> jibel: does that include build dependencies?
[07:34] <pitti> (this also applies to -release)
[07:35] <pitti> jibel: I don't see those yet, is that because there just are no packages in -proposed at the moment?
[07:35] <jibel> pitti, no, binary deps, should I include build deps ?
[07:35] <jibel> pitti, right, packages autodiscovered have been added to the private instance and will be published on first run
[07:36] <pitti> jibel: hm, do we have tests with "build-needed"? for those I think we should
[07:36] <infinity> pitti: They were direct uploads.
[07:36] <pitti> infinity: thanks; strange then, it seems nobody did those then
[07:36] <infinity> pitti: That's a bit disconcerting.  Surely, SOMEONE must have. :P
[07:37] <pitti> infinity: theres' a cronjob on macquarie which auto-uploads to the PPA for stable releases, and to the archive for the devel release; that hasn't changed in years, though
[07:37] <pitti> I'll take a closer look
[07:44] <jibel> pitti, there is no test with a restriction "build-needed" for the moment, but that's a good point. I'll add support to run on build deps change if packages have such restriction.
[09:59] <roseoff> hello !
[09:59] <roseoff> sudo apt-get install fglrx fglrx-amdcccle
[10:00] <roseoff> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[10:00] <roseoff>  fglrx : Depends: xorg-video-abi-11 but it is not installable
[10:00] <roseoff> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[10:00] <roseoff> ?
[10:00] <roseoff> HELP !
[10:00] <roseoff> ubuntu 12.10
[10:00] <mlankhorst> yes
[10:01] <roseoff> mlankhorst,
[10:09] <pitti> roseoff: not much you can do -- just wait until a working driver is available, and use the free one until then
[10:09] <mlankhorst> pitti: I was hoping he would try to google the error :(
[10:40] <pitti> jibel: thanks for the aptdaemon autopkgtest-ification!
[10:40] <pitti> jibel: did you already check this in a minimal VM, or want me to? (I have my test VM here)
[10:41] <jibel> pitti, yw, I used it to write a small doc that explains how to add dep8 support to a package
[10:42] <jibel> pitti, I tested it in a minimal VM from the source tree
[10:43] <pitti> jibel: cool, thanks; I'll upload this now
[10:43] <jibel> pitti, 68 tests passed, 4 skipped, there are dbus message to investigate
[10:48] <Laney> http://paste.debian.net/189671/ how do I make apt want to remove ubuntu-default-settings and install ubuntu-settings instead of holding back ubuntu-desktop?
[10:48] <Laney> u-s B/R (versioned appropriately) on u-d-s
[10:49] <tumbleweed> you need a transitional package
[10:49] <Laney> that is exactly what I want to avoid
[10:49] <tumbleweed> you can't
[10:49] <tumbleweed> http://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package btw
[10:49] <Laney> that package name is already being used as a virtual package
[10:49] <Laney> I know
[10:49] <xnox> Laney: breaks/replaces/provides + higher version number?!
[10:50] <xnox> Laney: it's the case of "multiple mta's, yet only one mta at the same time"
[10:50] <tumbleweed> provides are versionless (you should remember that from NM)
[10:50] <cjwatson> Well, no, it shouldn't be like the MTA case
[10:50] <cjwatson> This might improve once ubuntu-default-settings is no longer in the archive
[10:51] <Laney> you think?
[10:51] <cjwatson> They're exactly balanced in score - I think one no longer being available would tip the balance
[10:52] <cjwatson> I think
[10:54] <cjwatson> It should lose the one-point "installed package that isn't obsolete" bonus
[10:54] <Laney> yeah, that seems to be correct (hacked it out of the list manually to test)
[10:54] <Laney> who know? (you)
[10:55] <tumbleweed> Laney: you could mention this on that wiki page for future people to know
[10:55] <cjwatson> apt-pkg/algorithms.cc if you want to stare aimlessly
[11:31] <BenC> Did someone do a bunch of give-backs or is powerpc really doing that awesome this morning on ftbfs page?
[11:32] <xnox> BenC: i heard doko & infinity were planning give-backs before archive rebuild =/ or something like that
[11:33] <cjwatson> I noticed the output of a load of give-backs in my inbox
[11:34] <cjwatson> The hint is probably that powerpc is 33 hours behind :-/
[11:34] <doko> yes, builds were given back yesterday evening
[11:35] <ogra_> did anyone ever try to use qemu-ppc-static for this ?
[11:35] <ogra_> i bet its faster :)
[12:00] <cjwatson> lifeless: https://launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/grub/+packages has an update ready for you to test now
[12:56] <hallyn> smoser: well, could be.  like i say i thought i'd fixed those.  but more likely i missed it, and it's a regression by the templates adding the second space
[12:56] <smoser> ah.
[12:56] <smoser> well glad it will work. thank you.
[13:11] <hallyn> smoser: btw, i went ahead and changed --new to --name in lxc-clone, but it occurred to me last night that --new is what i really intended :)
[13:11] <hallyn> and nowhere is '--new' actually spelled out, i don't think
[13:11] <smoser> --name is better.
[13:11] <smoser> its consistent with everything else.
[13:12] <smoser> imo
[13:12] <smoser> but either one working would have been "good enough"
[13:45] <xclaesse> I'm testing Quantal's installer in a VM. I see encrypted LVM option exists now, but only for automatic partitioning?
[13:45] <xclaesse> is it possible to manually define the size of the partitions inside the LVM ?
[13:46] <xnox> xclaesse: not yet.
[13:46] <xnox> xclaesse: you can do it post-install.
[13:46] <xnox> xclaesse: by resizing your root partition & resizing logical volume.
[13:47] <xclaesse> xnox, not yet means not for Quantal or will it still make it in time for Quantal ?
[13:47] <xnox> xclaesse: in a way it is a limitation of the debian-installer's partitioning software partman, which ultimately requires something to take up all remaining space
[13:47] <xnox> xclaesse: I am coding it, there is FeatureFreezeException for it, and it is targeted for Quantal.... so it should land soon.
[13:48] <xclaesse> nice !
[13:48] <xnox> xclaesse: taking the rest of the space for automatic partitioning that is. No such requirements for manual partitioning (kind of)
[13:48] <xclaesse> xnox, while I'm at it: will it be possible to re-install without ripping all LVM volumes?
[13:48] <xclaesse> IIRC that was not possible with alternat installer
[13:49] <xclaesse> xnox, hmmm, automatic won't make /home in a different logical volume, will it?
[13:49] <xnox> xclaesse: it can, but we do not offer that.
[13:50] <xnox> xclaesse: it's easy to fix that up / migrate to separate home post-install.
[13:50] <xclaesse> yeah, so manually creating the volumes would still be nicer IMO
[13:50] <xnox> i know
[13:50] <xclaesse> I totally agree that's not something you want for "normal" users, but having the choice somewhere would still be good :)
[13:51] <xclaesse> xnox, so manual LVM is not planned for quantal?
[13:52] <xnox> xclaesse: i told you, i am working on it.
[13:52] <xnox> xclaesse: automatic will stay as it is, but manual crypt/lvm will land in one form or another
[13:53] <xclaesse> ah ok, miss understood
[13:53] <xclaesse> good :)
[14:00] <smoser> cjwatson where would i find TFM to read about what kernel parameters d-i reads?
[14:12] <cjwatson> smoser: https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/installation-guide/
[14:13] <ScottK> pitti: In case no one else told you, you got mentioned here: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/interviews/whats-going-on-with-gnome/
[14:15] <smoser> cjwatson, so can you confirm for me that 'release=<something>' is ignored?
[14:16] <smoser> or rather is not expected to do anything ? i have something that is writing it, but it didn't seem like it should have to, and i dont see it at (https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-parms.html)
[14:24] <cjwatson> smoser: I've never heard of that
[14:25] <smoser> cjwatson, thanks. it was probably copied along.
[14:31] <slangasek> didrocks: hmm, I think the script in question has by now iterated to the point that my review would no longer add anything
[14:32] <didrocks> slangasek: ok, put it in DONE and drop it please :)
[14:32]  * didrocks was in blueprint cleanage day
[14:36] <SpamapS> cjwatson: I think you may be right that the caching needs optimization in madison-lite
[14:36] <SpamapS> %Time ExclSec CumulS #Calls sec/call Csec/c  Name
[14:36] <SpamapS>  83.2   0.990  0.990     13   0.0762 0.0761  main::cache_list_file
[14:36] <SpamapS> thats without a cache
[14:36] <SpamapS> and with a cache..
[14:37] <SpamapS>  80.3   0.160  0.160     13   0.0123 0.0123  main::search_cache
[14:38] <SpamapS> tho.. main::cache_list_file is basically "the whole thing" .. so need to break it up to get more from dprof
[14:43] <slangasek> didrocks: ok, done :)
[14:44] <didrocks> thanks slangasek :)
[15:02] <didrocks> ogra_: did the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR landed?
[15:03] <slangasek> didrocks: no... working on it still
[15:03] <didrocks> slangasek: ok, ETA is beta2 freeze I guess?
[15:03] <slangasek> didrocks: i.e., I'm working on it, not ogra
[15:03] <slangasek> didrocks: yes
[15:03] <didrocks> slangasek: ah ok, I saw that in the release meeting report, hence the question :)
[15:03] <didrocks> slangasek: thanks ;)
[15:03] <slangasek> yeah... :)
[15:05] <tjaalton> let's try here: anyone here with an intel i915/i945 machine willing to bisect mesa? I'll build the packages
[15:06] <pitti> ScottK: argh, with the one thing I don't really want to do (CK :) )
[15:07] <pitti> ScottK: thanks for the pointer
[15:07] <ScottK> So now you know you just need to line up some BSD hackers to help you out.
[15:26] <smoser> cjwatson, around ? i'm looking at changes i believe were yours to /etc/init/iscsi-network-interface.conf under https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-iscsi/+bug/457767
[15:26] <smoser> quantal has regressed and is no longer writing /run/initramfs/open-iscsi.interface . but my iscsi root seemed to not suffer any negative from that
[15:27] <smoser> ie, i would have thought that that would cause my network interface to bounce and probably generally screw things up.
[15:28] <xnox> stgraber: ^^^^
[15:30] <cjwatson> smoser: honestly, it's been so long since I touched that that I don't think I'll be of any more help than reading the code from scratch
[15:30] <cjwatson> you might have got lucky I guess; regardless, we should be making sure that the interface we're doing iSCSI root over is never torn down ...
[15:31] <smoser> cjwatson, ok. i'll get that code added back in.
[15:32] <stgraber> smoser: did you see my comment in #ubuntu-server yesterday about just checking for /run/net-* from the upstart job rather than having another piece of code in initramfs?
[15:32] <smoser> stgraber, i did not.
[15:33] <smoser> and i considered that
[15:33] <smoser> but at the moment there could be 3 /run/net-* entries
[15:33] <smoser> (or 'N' of them)
[15:33] <smoser> and you wouldnt know which exact interface was the root
[15:34] <smoser> the initramfs [potentially] has that knowledge and was storing it for later consumption
[15:36] <Daviey> smoser: erm.. we add ipappend 2, which adds BOOTIF=01-mac-address of booting device to kernel cmd line
[15:36] <Daviey> so we know the boot device
[15:37] <smoser> Daviey, yeah, but that isn't known in all cases.
[15:37] <Daviey> smoser: sure?
[15:37] <smoser> and BOOTIF= is actually not necessarily the device that provides the link to the iscsi root
[15:38] <smoser> ip=:::::eth1 BOOTIF=01-mac-adddress
[15:38] <smoser> would bring up eth1 as dhcp
[15:38] <slangasek> so there's certainly enough information in the system that you can walk it to discover the correct device post-initramfs
[15:38] <slangasek> but surely it's simpler to just have the initramfs bit record it
[15:38] <smoser> right.
[15:38] <smoser> that is what i was about to argue.
[15:39] <smoser> just opened bug 1050480
[15:39] <smoser> anyone else want to think about resolv.conf in this case?
[15:40] <smoser> i'm thinking i need to add code to iscsi-network-interface.conf that reads /run/net-*.conf and adds the dns servers
[15:40] <smoser> at lesat for resolvconf.
[15:40] <slangasek> smoser: I thought that what we discussed on this previously was sound
[15:40] <smoser> but in non-resolvconf world, that would have been updated by dhclient and its not going to get done.
[15:40] <slangasek> there is no non-resolvconf world
[15:41] <slangasek> it's unsupported, EOD
[15:41] <smoser> is that acceptable ?
[15:41] <slangasek> yes, ubuntu-minimal depends on resolvconf
[15:41] <smoser> ok then. much easier.
[15:41] <smoser> thanks.
[15:44] <slangasek> smoser: to be clear, a driving factor for putting resolvconf into ubuntu-minimal was to no longer have to worry about the 50 different ways to manage dns ;)
[15:44] <slangasek> so yeah, anybody who goes out of their way to disable resolvconf is on their ownw
[15:44] <smoser> thank you
[16:07] <smoser> someone tell me what i'm missing
[16:07] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1202917/
[16:07] <smoser> lines 23-25. why is that path taken if /run/initramfs/open-iscsi.interface did not exist
[16:08] <smoser> it seems to me that will call /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart with IFACE=''
[16:14] <stgraber> smoser: looks like that part should be under the other diff
[16:14] <stgraber> s/diff/if/
[16:14] <smoser> thats what i thought
[16:15] <smoser> thanks.
[16:20] <slangasek> smoser: looks like a bug for this to not be inside the previous if block
[16:20] <slangasek> right, what stgraber said :)
[16:26] <smoser> hm..
[16:26] <smoser> does that job have access to INTERFACE ?
[16:26] <smoser> that is provided to the 'network-interface' job that it is 'start on' and 'stop on'
[16:26] <smoser> but will it have access to that?
[16:35] <smoser> shoot. now i'm reading that same pastebin (http://paste.ubuntu.com/1202917/)
[16:36] <smoser> wont the post-stop run the first time a network-interface is taken down?
[16:36] <smoser> i guess i can't think of a failure path there, but it'd be better if it only removed that on down of the specific $iface
[16:44] <mterry> dpm, do all Ubuntu translations specify utf8 encoding in the po file?
[16:46] <dpm> mterry, I believe yes
[16:47] <mterry> dpm, cool
[16:58] <doko> jamespage, do we have the no-jars-in-package fun in quantal too?
[16:59] <jamespage> doko, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1203022/
[16:59] <jamespage> yep
[16:59] <jamespage> more potential rather than actual at this point in time just like bytecode compat
[17:00] <doko> can we revert this change before a test rebuild?
[17:00] <jamespage> yep
[17:02] <xnox> cjwatson: is there a good test to see if the livecd booted in efi or bios mode?
[17:02] <smoser> slangasek, or stgraber do you have thoughts on the above?
[17:03] <smoser> it really seems like the current code basically telling ifupdown that the iscsi interface is down as soon as *any* network interface goes down.
[17:03] <cjwatson> xnox: [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ]
[17:04] <xnox> cjwatson: thanks
[17:05] <xnox> cjwatson: any tips on migrating existing system to efi ? i do have separate /boot do I need to convert it to "efi" partition?
[17:05] <xnox> aka split it into two?
[17:05] <dobey> Is there any way to tell lintian to ignore an error/warning from a binary package, via some extra field in the control perhaps?
[17:06] <cjwatson> xnox: /boot and /efi are different categories of things
[17:06] <cjwatson> You must have an EFI System Partition
[17:06] <xnox> ok. will make one.
[17:07] <cjwatson> I don't have documentation on doing a conversion to hand
[17:07] <infinity>        For binary packages, Lintian looks for overrides in a file named
[17:07] <infinity>        usr/share/lintian/overrides/<package> inside the binary package, where <package> is the
[17:07] <infinity>        name of the binary package.
[17:07] <infinity> dobey: ^
[17:07] <xnox> cjwatson: ok.
[17:07] <dobey> infinity: ah, interesting. what doc is that in?
[17:10] <infinity> dobey: The lintian manpage.
[17:10] <dobey> ah it's in the man page. but the syntax of course isn't. luckily first link i clicked on from duckduckgo seems to have it :)
[17:10] <dobey> infinity: thanks
[17:11] <fbond> mdz: Hope this is an okay place to contact you. Saw https://launchpad.net/cfontz but there is no code there. Any place I can find it?
[17:20] <SpamapS> cjwatson: playing a bit more w/ madison-lite here and there... its hard to see how slow it is until you actually put all of the archive files in... each Packages.gz processes "fast".. but there are .. well.. quite a few. ;)
[17:45] <bdmurray> cjwatson: what networking drivers would be on the mini cd?  bug 1047092
[18:17] <xnox> cjwatson: grub2 from ppa works fine in bios mode with lvm/luks. my laptop refuses to boot in uefi mode =(
[18:23] <infinity> cjwatson: grub2 no workie on powerpc.
[18:25] <SpamapS> cjwatson: just going through the cache files is still very expensive unfortunately
[18:25] <SpamapS> cjwatson: mostly because there are so many to go through
[18:28] <SpamapS>   1295992   0.57777   7.09000   525: my ($key, $value, $is_all) = split;
[18:29] <SpamapS> cjwatson: as you suspected, sqlite's indexes will probably blow the doors off that. )
[18:30] <lifeless> SpamapS: ?
[18:30] <SpamapS> lifeless: I'm taking a few moments to speed up rmadison
[18:30] <lifeless> SpamapS: oh cool
[18:31] <SpamapS> which I use quite heavily during SRU processing, and which is incredibly slow
[18:31] <lifeless> SpamapS: move it into LP ?
[18:31] <SpamapS> lifeless: thats what I thought actually :)
[18:31] <SpamapS> lifeless: but cjwatson is wary of the performance of versions+packages+sources in the API
[18:31] <lifeless> you'd want a new API entry point
[18:32] <lifeless> no freaking way you want to use the object programming model, it would die from round trips.
[18:32] <lifeless> -but-
[18:32] <SpamapS> Its asking "this random string, what packages/sources and versions and architectures are the highest published?"
[18:32] <lifeless> LP should be able to answer it in about 5 queries, bundle it into json and ship you a single result.
[18:32] <lifeless> where string can be a source package name or binary package name, right ?
[18:33] <SpamapS> lifeless: the other reason is, sometimes its nice to have a simple thing parsing the actual Packages/Sources lists
[18:33] <SpamapS> lifeless: right
[18:34]  * xnox was expecting to fetch binary publishing history & source publishing history where status is published for active series + some string formatting
[18:34] <xnox> to make an lpmadison
[18:35] <lifeless> so yeah, internally thats 1) identify the archives, 2) the series 3) find any matching binary package names, 4) find any published binaries for those names and get the source package names - add to the inputs, 5) find any source package names 6) find the highest published version per series. Done.
[18:35] <infinity> lifeless: Even if it all could be done quickly in LP, the results are still "wrong", in that people aren't interested in LP's publishing state, but in what's actually on-disk.
[18:35] <lifeless> That should be well under 100ms
[18:35] <lifeless> infinity: LP knows whats on-disk.
[18:35] <infinity> It sure doesn't.
[18:35] <infinity> It's about 30 minutes early on that.
[18:36] <lifeless> depending on which mirror they use, it can be hours early.
[18:36] <infinity> (Which is fine, but not helpful for madison use)
[18:36] <infinity> Also, your above is missing the source->binary mapping, including out-of-date binaries.
[18:36] <infinity> It gets more complicated.
[18:37] <xnox> but for SRU you want what's lp view of things is, even if that's what's only going to happen in the future 30 minutes.....
[18:37] <lifeless> ok
[18:38] <infinity> xnox: For SRU processing, you don't even want published, you also want accepted and unapproved, which isn't really what madison's for.
[18:38] <xnox> true
[18:38] <infinity> (In other words, you want to know everything that's about to happen, not everything that has happened)
[18:40] <SpamapS> true
[18:41] <SpamapS> for SRU I would like LP's view
[18:43] <infinity> Extending rmadison to have a "show me what LP thinks is published" and a "show me what's in accepted/new/unapproved too" option would be neat, but speeding up the current "show me what's on-disk" view is a nice start.
[19:53] <bryceh> @pilot in
[19:54] <mdz> fbond: I would be happy to send you the code but you left :-(
[20:02] <tedg> slangasek, Which Chinese is "Simplified"?  I've got zh_CN, zh_HK and zh_TW.  Though, none of them show the bug :-9
[20:02] <tedg> :-(
[20:05] <Daviey> bryceh: err, 'weston'.. Odd choice of sponsorships.
[20:06] <stgraber> tedg: zh_CN
[20:07] <Daviey> bryceh: The debian/changelog suggests it's a really useless upload.. but infact misses out that it drops a patch?
[20:07] <Daviey> bryceh: http://pb.daviey.com/FNu4/
[20:07] <tedg> stgraber, Thanks!
[20:08] <bryceh> Daviey, hmm
[20:11] <bryceh> no reference to the patch in the changelog
[20:11] <bryceh> nor does the patch exist in the git tree
[20:14] <Daviey> bryceh: and xgrep?  These seem like uploads not worth the buildd time.
[20:15] <Daviey> why didn't dholbach upload that himself?
[20:15] <bryceh> Daviey, dude, just trying to work through the pilot queue, why so critical?  topic says the archive's open
[20:16] <Daviey> bryceh: Sure, ok.
[20:16] <Daviey> Sorry if i seemed to pick, wasn't meaning to.
[20:20] <SpamapS> doko: any word on bug 1048710 ? New upload in progress?
[20:21] <bryceh> tjaalton, looks like the git.diff came from your 0.95.0-0ubuntu1 upload; was that just build tree cruft or is that supposed to be there?
[20:21] <doko> SpamapS, Fri, sorry, was distracted by other issues
[20:22] <SpamapS> doko: sounds good, thanks.
[20:26] <tjaalton> bryceh: yeah, source format 3.0 playing tricks
[20:26] <tjaalton> bryceh: also, those changes should go to debian
[20:26] <bryceh> tjaalton, yeah, and I told the author so.  But isn't that why we put this junk on alioth to begin with rather than in bzr?  ;-)
[20:27] <tjaalton> bryceh: yes, but in debian branches and then merge ;)
[20:28] <tjaalton> not a big deal, will get sorted out at some point
[20:29] <slangasek> tedg: simplified chinese is the one used in the PRC (so zh_CN)
[20:30] <bryceh> tjaalton, *shrug*  there was already a 0ubuntu1 version and the changes are minor, they can wait
[20:30] <slangasek> tedg: Taiwan uses the traditional because they were too busy fighting a war on their rear guard to worry about changing their alphabet
[20:30] <tjaalton> bryceh: exactly
[20:32] <tedg> slangasek, Heh
[20:32] <tedg> slangasek, Thanks!
[20:32] <tedg> Still seemingly can't change my time format, not sure why.
[20:33]  * bryceh waves to tedg
[20:33] <tedg> Howdy bryceh!
[20:34] <slangasek> tedg: what bug are we talking about, anyway? :)
[20:35] <tedg> slangasek, bug 1028866 -- trying to recreate.
[20:35] <tedg> slangasek, Not sure why LC_TIME=zh_CN LANGUAGE=zh_CN gnome-control-center isn't working.  Get a locale not supported error.
[20:36] <tedg> Ah, there we go.  Needed a ".UTF-8"
[20:36] <tedg> Hmm, bug looks fixed :-)
[20:37] <tedg> The box really should resize for the last character though.
[20:38] <slangasek> tedg: fixed> מזל טוב
[20:50] <c_clapham> Hi, I want to get involved with helping to develop ubuntu but don't know where to start. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.
[20:51] <bryceh> c_clapham, depends on what you are interested in, and what you hope to get out of it, mind elaborating on your interests?
[20:55] <smoser> anyone else have old school (ie 2005) fonts after upgrade today?
[20:57] <dobey> infinity: can you go ahead and reject ubuntuone-client-data please? (sorry)
[21:00] <infinity> dobey: I would if I'd gotten around to uploading it for you.
[21:00] <infinity> dobey: Since I didn't, you're set!
[21:01] <dobey> infinity: ah, ok. then don't upload it :)
[21:01] <infinity> dobey: Done.  I'm good at doing things that amount to not doing anything.
[21:01] <infinity> dobey: I might even not do it twice.
[21:01] <dobey> heh
[21:05] <dobey> infinity: thanks for nothin'! :)
[21:18] <smoser> slangasek, are you going to upload mountall ?
[21:19] <smoser> i have a fix for cloud-init 'start networking' (replacing it with the emit net-device-added) but it doens't fix my problem entirely
[21:19] <smoser> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/115772437/cloud-init_0.7.0%7Ebzr644-0ubuntu1_0.7.0%7Ebzr644-0ubuntu2%7Eppa0.diff.gz
[21:30] <slangasek> smoser: not this week, since I'm not in a position to deal with any regressions and haven't yet tested it to my own satisfaction
[21:30] <slangasek> smoser: but yes, I am going to upload
[21:45] <SpamapS> smoser: my 30 second skim over that tells me its good :)
[22:29] <bryceh> meh.
[22:29] <bryceh> @pilot out
[22:37] <micahg> bryceh: requestsync -h when sponsoring
[22:37] <micahg> gah
[22:38] <micahg> requestsync -s
[22:38] <micahg> gah
[22:38] <micahg> I mean syncpackage -s
[22:40] <bryceh> micahg, ok, didn't realize that was required.  It can't figure that out?  It did prompt me to login to LP.
[22:40] <micahg> bryceh: it shows the sync requester on the -changes list
[22:40] <lamont> this wonderful thing where unity decides that I want a full screen window because I moved it and it bumped into the top... how do I make it stop trying to help me that way?
[22:41] <bryceh> micahg, ok.  Is that really all that important?
[22:41] <micahg> bryceh: it shows up on the requester's +synchronised-packages page and will show up when we look for previous uploads if someone applies for dev membership
[22:42] <micahg> it makes it like any other sponsored upload basically
[22:44] <micahg> bryceh: there's also a -b flag for closing the sync bug
[22:45] <bryceh> ah, I was looking for that
[22:45] <micahg> (which happens to include whether or not it's sponsored)
[22:45] <bryceh> *sigh* @ piloting.  bleah.
[22:46]  * micahg hugs bryceh
[22:51] <Laney> you don't feel happy with it?
[22:52] <ogra_> lamont, that will immediately start working magically after you convinced it to have sane alt-tab behavior :P
[22:53] <lamont> ogra_: I don't believe you
[22:53] <ogra_> heh
[22:53]  * ogra_ doesnt think either is easily changeable
[22:54] <lamont> ogra_: more seriously, in the way before time, I smashed unity-3d in the face about buttons in the title bar (moved them to the right), the moved to 2d because the rendering speed made things unusable, and well, I'd like to move the buttons back to the left now without reinstalling the machine... got any magic sause for me?
[22:54] <ogra_> lamont, unity --reset
[22:54] <ogra_> that should reset to defaults
[22:55] <lamont> ah, but I still want focus follows *()^& mouse, even if that isn't quite as strict as I'd like it to be
[22:57] <bryceh> Laney, was that Q for me?
[22:58] <Laney> bryceh: yeah
[22:58] <ogra_> lamont, https://launchpad.net/unsettings
[22:58] <ogra_> lamont, thats what i used to switch back to FFM
[22:59] <lamont> ta
[22:59] <ogra_> (and for changing font settings etc)
[22:59]  * lamont runs to fetch a kid
[22:59] <infinity> ogra_: unity --reset is removed in Quantal.
[22:59] <infinity> ogra_: But there's some gsettings invocation that will do vaguely the same thing.
[22:59] <ogra_> sadly the utterly unusable alt-tab behavior is not fixable at all :(
[23:00] <ogra_> i really wonder who thought its a good idea to make it app based vs window based
[23:01] <infinity> lamont: The edge->max/tile behaviour is in the "Grid" plugin in ccsm.
[23:01] <lamont> oh, ogra_ btw, unity --reset?  they dropped that
[23:01] <infinity> lamont: Edge -> Resize Actions.
[23:01] <ogra_> lamont, yeah, infinity said so too
[23:01] <lamont> infinity: thanks
[23:02] <lamont> anyway, afk
[23:02] <ogra_> if ther is an equivalent unity --reset should really trigger it
[23:02] <bryceh> Laney, ah, yeah just frustrating.  sometimes piloting gets a bit drudgery, lots of little details to tend to
[23:04] <bryceh> but... a nice break from fixing graphics I guess ;-)
[23:06] <micahg> Laney: you should try piloting some time :)
[23:08] <Laney> yeah, I probably should
[23:46] <smoser> hm...
[23:46] <smoser> so i have one thought about my cloud-init fix https://launchpadlibrarian.net/115772437/cloud-init_0.7.0%7Ebzr644-0ubuntu1_0.7.0%7Ebzr644-0ubuntu2%7Eppa0.diff.gz
[23:46] <smoser> if an entry is listed in /etc/network/interfaces
[23:47] <smoser> but is not present
[23:47] <smoser> then i'' emit a 'added' event for it.
[23:47] <Presonus_Probs> Hi roomies :) first time user here, sorry if im in the wrong channel
[23:47] <smoser> i could check for an entry in /sys/class/net/ but i'm not guaranteed for /sys to be mounted at that point.
[23:53] <Presonus_Probs> Has anyone had any experience with Presonus Mixing desks and UbuntuStudio? Im having a few problems
[23:53] <Presonus_Probs> already asked #UbuntuStudio, thought I'd throw it in here just incase
[23:57] <TheMuso`> Presonus_Probs: I suggest you ask in #ubuntustudio.
[23:57] <TheMuso`> oh sorry missed your second comment.
[23:57] <Presonus_Probs> Thanks TheMuso
[23:58] <Presonus_Probs> :) thought id chuck it in here just incase it was a common problem devs would know about
[23:59] <TheMuso`> I don't think many, if any people in here work with firewire audio gear. Have you asked in any of the Linux audio IRC channels?
[23:59] <TheMuso`> Presonus_Probs: Try #lad as well.


[01:27] <ClientAlive> Where do you find the network manager for kubuntu desktop? I've never used it before.
[01:27] <ClientAlive> I
[01:28] <ClientAlive> I'm running it live to try it out
[03:02] <izc> sup
[03:43] <mechana> anyone wanna help me with a network issue?\
[11:44] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[17:43] <kyfella> Any of ya'll around?  This is what I am currently running. $ cat /etc/lsb-release DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_RELEASE=13.10 DISTRIB_CODENAME=saucy DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 13.10"
[17:44] <kyfella> Can someone give me an idea?  I had to rebuild 13.10, because something funky was going on.  My mounted USB drive keeps disconnecting overnight for some reason.  I am thinking maybe power saving settings but not sure.  Any ideas of what I can look for?
[17:50] <ClientAlive> I'm new to kde and I accidentally deleted this thing (I don't even know what it's called) but it had a bunch of my stuff on it. Can I get it back?
[17:54] <oshakati> Heya
[17:55] <kyfella> Client, do you mean you deleted your irc client?
[17:56] <kyfella> If anyone sends me a message, give me a few minutes to respond.  I am between here and 3 servers
[17:57] <ClientAlive> I found it
[17:57] <kyfella> so your good client?
[17:58] <ClientAlive> In the initial install of kubuntu 13.10 it had this panel looking thing on the desktop that you could put stuff on (directories or files or whatever).
[17:58] <kyfella> oh yea, I NEVER use that irritating thing
[17:59] <ClientAlive> You can't see it now (after I clicked something like "remove *" in the context menu earlier). but I found the contents in dolphin
[17:59] <ClientAlive> so yeah, I got it  :)
[18:01] <kyfella> I always just hit the X on that thing and remove it
[18:01] <kyfella> it gets in my way.  I like a nice clean desktop to work with
[18:03] <kyfella> anyone have ne ideas on my external USB connection issue?
[18:03] <kyfella> it never did that before I rebuilt 13.10, so I am assuming I missed a setting somewhere in the system settigns
[18:04] <kyfella> settings
[18:08] <Kuberboef> ola alll
[18:13] <ClientAlive> oh fuck!
[18:14] <ClientAlive> I guess i really don't know about kde. I was messing around with this thing ('activities' or something) and it changed my entired desktop/sytem alltogether
[18:14] <ClientAlive> I clicked something and the whole thing changed before my eyeas
[18:14] <ClientAlive> eyes
[18:16] <BluesKaj> !activities | ClientAlive
[18:16] <BluesKaj> !info activities | ClientAlive
[18:16] <BluesKaj> uhm
[18:17] <BluesKaj> someons should update the infobot
[18:18] <BluesKaj> ClientAlive, http://askubuntu.com/questions/253990/what-is-a-activity-in-kde-and-what-can-i-do-with-it
[18:18] <ClientAlive> lol
[18:18] <ClientAlive> cool
[18:23] <ClientAlive> Oh wow
[18:23] <ClientAlive> Now I'm gonna end up switching to kde myself  :)
[18:24] <BluesKaj> I prefer the virtual desktop pagers myself, to me the activities section is redundant
[18:27] <ClientAlive> What that thread explains is exactly what I spent 3 wks wrangling ubuntu into doing with unity
[18:28] <ClientAlive> if I'd have know that's how kde worked I'd probably have been using it all along
[18:28] <ClientAlive> all these years I mean
[18:31] <BluesKaj> kde doesn't get the hype unity does, since ubuntu is a much larger community
[18:35] <Dr_No> i want to thank the creators and developers of xubuntu, robustness with elegance in the linux world
[18:36] <Dr_No> well done xubuntu!
[18:36] <BluesKaj> Dr_No, congratulate them in #xubuntu
[18:37] <Dr_No> BluesKaj: :) yes
[18:37] <BluesKaj> this is #Kubuntu
[18:40] <Dr_No> of course, my apologies
[18:42] <ClientAlive> Is there any way to get that first thing back? That thing that looks like a panel on my desktop and I can put dirs on it?
[18:42] <ClientAlive> I see the old ones contents in Desktop in the file manager but it does not appear on the desktop like it did before
[18:46] <ClientAlive> or, what is the thing even called so I could google how to create one
[18:48] <BluesKaj> sorry ClientAlive, it's usually the first thing I dump from the desktop, so i can't recall the name either
[18:49] <BluesKaj> what would you use it for ?
[18:49] <qdata> ClientAlive: unlock widgets, right click on desktop, and look for a drop down at the Layout at the top
[18:51] <ClientAlive> ok
[18:52] <ClientAlive> qdata: what about layout now?
[18:52] <ClientAlive> in the context menu?
[18:52] <qdata> in that drop down is the type of desktop - I think when you change the desktop type you can make that folder thingy again, but I don't really know how as it's the first thing I get rid of too
[18:53] <ClientAlive> oh
[18:53] <ClientAlive> ok, well I liked it cause I could include stuff for my customer there who's never used this (kubuntu) before
[18:54] <ClientAlive> I thought there would be something about making it viewable in some system setting somewhere or in the folder properties, Idk.
[18:57] <qdata> first thing I do is change my desktop to the old default type from the folder desktop type that is how it is when you first install
[18:57] <qdata> but I think it's the desktop type that you need to change
[18:59] <qdata> ah ok - got it - after you change the desktop type to folder then add the folder plasma widget to the desktop
[19:04] <EvilRoey> hey all what's the SSH flag for just forwarding a port on another system and not opening a new shell on it?
[19:05] <qdata> you can then configure that plasma widget when you hover over it and the config bar comes up click on the wrench icon and select the 'Show the desktop folder' radio button
[19:05] <qdata> and it will be like before
[19:22] <ClientAlive> qdata: thx. gonna start that right now
[19:24] <ClientAlive> qdata: I don't know how to do any of those things. I've worked with kde for like 20 min so fa
[19:24] <ClientAlive> far
[19:27] <BluesKaj> ClientAlive, http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/desktop.php
[19:30] <qdata> ClientAlive: KDE can be daunting to a new user, because it can be configured so many ways - it takes using it for a while with a corresponding learning curve, but that's exactly what I've always liked and aprreciatted about it
[19:40] <ClientAlive> thx BluesKaj: qdata:
[19:40] <ClientAlive> I gotta get the thing into my guy's hands and get paid tho. Ya know?  :)
[20:30] <steve_> testing from new system. Are people seeing this?
[20:42] <qdata> steve_: if you see it we see it; that's the way irc works
[23:36] <ClientAlive> I run ubuntu 13.10. Would making my system into kubuntu just amount to installing kde window manager?
[23:44] <monkeyjuice> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop


[00:51] <hallyn> xnox: sadly, that didn't actually help
[00:51] <xnox> hallyn: =/ oh well.
[00:52] <xnox> hallyn: i can try to dig into it, but deffinatly not tonight.
[00:52] <hallyn> now really i expected it to make it worse (since noone is using it :)
[00:53] <hallyn> xnox: np, it's late there - ttyl
[00:53] <hallyn> thanks! gn
[00:53] <ParkerR> Or as another alternative... is the kernel in the new builds managed by a deb file?
[00:55] <ParkerR> *new touch builds
[11:38] <apw> ParkerR, the kernel is built in a .deb yes though typically upgrades in touch images are not done directly
[11:39] <ogra_> the kernel deb is only used by the android package
[11:39] <ogra_> (which generates boot.img and system.img (the latter has the modules))
[11:44] <ogra_> just on a sidenote, forcing performance from initrd on boot on mako gains exactly nothing :(
[11:55] <apw> ogra_, worth a try
[11:55] <ogra_> yeah
[11:56] <ogra_> it actually takes a few milliseconds longer with performance ... i guess thats due to the echoing "performance" into sysfs
[12:13] <ogra_> AHA !
[12:13] <ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# ls -l /var/lib/ureadahead/debugfs/
[12:13] <ogra_> total 0
[12:13] <ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# mount | grep debugfs
[12:13] <ogra_> none on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw,relatime)
[12:13] <ogra_> so i guess thats why ureadahead doesnt work anymore
[12:13] <apw> aha?
[12:14] <ogra_> well, ureadahead reads from /var/lib/ureadahead/debugfs/
[12:14] <ogra_> doesnt it ?
[12:14] <apw> isn't that normal?  doesn't ureadahead mount it temporarily on its own mointpoint during its run and unmount it after?
[12:15] <ogra_> hmm
[12:15] <apw> as it may need it before it is mounted by the system
[12:16] <ogra_> hmm
[12:17] <apw> ogra_, so actually it uses /sys if it is mounted, else it mounts its own
[12:17] <ogra_> ah, k
[12:21] <apw> ogra_, is there a bug for this ?
[12:22] <ogra_> nope, still researching
[12:22] <ogra_> funnily it seems ot have profiled something at some point
[12:22] <ogra_> *to
[12:22] <ogra_> but it is never executed on boot after that
[12:22] <apw> is the packs directory writable ?
[12:23] <apw> or ... the place that the "reprofile" marker is stored
[12:23] <ogra_> yes
[12:23] <ogra_> i see packs that have been generated on first boot
[12:23] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7113774/
[12:23] <ogra_> even specoific ones for the container
[12:24] <apw> have you tried just running it to see if it works?
[12:24] <ogra_> it doesnt
[12:24] <ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# start ureadahead
[12:24] <ogra_> ureadahead stop/waiting
[12:25] <ogra_> callong "ureadahead --daemon" directly immediately returns ... i dont see it in the processlist
[12:33] <apw> ogra_, and without --daemon and with --verbose ?
[12:34] <ogra_> looks ok http://paste.ubuntu.com/7113819/
[12:36] <apw> ogra_, ok so you don't see it because it only takes 0.02s to do the readahead, as this is flash it is not that supprising
[12:37] <ogra_> it would still show up in a bootchart
[12:37] <ogra_> (it used to)
[12:37] <apw> so that implies it is not starting, which says the start condition is wrong
[12:38] <apw> i assume we ahve a mountall job still ?
[12:40] <apw> ogra_, ^
[12:40] <ogra_> yep
[12:41] <ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-bootcharts/ubuntu-phablet-trusty-243.png
[12:44] <zequence> infinity: No update to the precise kernel?
[12:45] <apw> ogra_, there is a level at which things get collapsed when they are tooo short
[12:45] <ogra_> hmm
[12:46] <apw> which you can turn off when generating hte graph
[12:47] <ogra_> ah, there is a HZ= setting
[12:48]  * ogra_ sets it from 25 to 50Hz
[12:54] <ogra_> so that gets me a lot more small processes listed (and makes the tgz of the bootchart twice as big) ... but still no trace of ureadahead ...
[12:55] <ogra_> now i wonder ...
[12:55] <apw> ogra_, could still be tooo small to see i be reconing
[12:56] <ogra_> yes, the point is that the interesting pack files arent the default pack
[12:56] <ogra_> (see my ls output of /var/lib/ureadahead above)
[12:56] <apw> arn't those loaded by the other job?
[12:56] <ogra_> and these mountpoinnts arent handled by mountall
[12:56] <ogra_> but before in the initrd
[12:57] <ogra_> i.e. they are already mounted when mountall starts
[12:57] <apw> ok then they won't get loaded anyhow
[12:57] <ogra_> start on mounted DEVICE=[/UL]* MOUNTPOINT=/?*
[12:57] <apw> see /etc/init/ureadahead-other.conf which loads them based on the mount announcements
[12:58] <apw> so i suspect you want your own job which runs ureadahead against the special mounts
[12:58] <ogra_> so the question is, does mountall emit "mounted" for already mounted devices in fstab
[12:58] <ogra_> jodh, do you know ?^^^
[12:59] <apw> i would doubt it, you can look at the emitted events right?
[12:59] <ogra_> i think we dropped "initrcl events" at some point
[13:00] <apw> "The  mounted event is generated by the mountall(8) daemon after it has mounted a filesystem."
[13:00] <apw> i read that as for things it has mounted itself only
[13:01] <ogra_> bah, k
[13:01] <ogra_> so i need something that loops through fstab and calls ureadahead for each mountpoint regardless
[13:01] <ogra_> and starts on startup or so
[13:01] <apw> you know your special ones right?
[13:01] <apw> they are always the same phone wise ?
[13:02] <ogra_> well, i guess we want everything but rootfs
[13:02] <ogra_> no, but fstab is assembled by initrd on boot
[13:02] <ogra_> (on every boot)
[13:24] <ogra_> bah, and now i killed my remote device :(
[13:53] <jodh> ogra_: yep, apw is correct.
[13:55]  * ogra_ tries ureadahead-other with a hardcoded value for MOUNTPOINT ... but that doesnt seem to work either
[13:57] <apw> ?
[13:57] <apw> what did you put in there
[13:57] <apw> ogra_, ^
[13:57] <ogra_> /android/system
[13:58] <ogra_> my main concern is to get the container up faster (since most of the other bits have to wait for it)
[13:59] <ogra_> i made the ureadahead-other job start on "starting mountall" and replaced the $MOUNTPOINT in the exec line with the path
[14:00] <ogra_> i was assuming this should just work
[14:00] <ogra_> but i neither see it in the bootchart nor do i notice any speedup ...
[14:06] <apw> perhaps boot it --debug on the kernle command line to see if it runs
[14:07] <jodh> ogra_: try adding '--force-trace'
[14:07] <jodh> ogra_: also, what's in /var/log/upstart/ureadahead-other.log ?
[14:07] <ogra_> jodh, but that will create a new pack ... i have the packs from first boot already
[14:07] <ogra_> i just want it to make use of them :)
[14:08] <jodh> ogra_: on those new mountpoints?
[14:08] <ogra_> i emptied the log a few boots ago (before i started hacking the job) and there is now nothing in it
[14:08] <ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# ls /var/lib/ureadahead/android*
[14:08] <ogra_> /var/lib/ureadahead/android.firmware.pack
[14:08] <ogra_> /var/lib/ureadahead/android.persist.pack
[14:08] <ogra_> /var/lib/ureadahead/android.system.pack
[14:09] <ogra_> so there is one pack for /android/system ... if i read that correctly
[14:09] <jodh> ogra_: ok, have you added --verbose atleast then to get some output?
[14:09] <ogra_> not yet
[14:09] <ogra_> will do that now
[14:09]  * ogra_ reboots with --verbose
[14:11] <ogra_> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# cat /var/log/upstart/ureadahead-other.log
[14:11] <ogra_> nothing ...
[14:12]  * ogra_ moves the start condition to "started mountall"
[14:12] <ogra_> still no log
[14:12] <ogra_> aha
[14:13] <ogra_> manually starting it produces something in the log
[14:13] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7114261/
[14:13] <ogra_> smells like mountall is never emitting "started" or so
[14:14]  * ogra_ moves to "start on startup"
[14:14] <ogra_> lets see
[14:15] <ogra_> funny, nothing new in the log
[14:15] <jodh> ogra_: is ureadahead-other.log empty or non-existent?
[14:15] <jodh> ogra_: try running "sudo initctl notify-disk-writeable" and check the log again
[14:15] <ogra_> it was empty (because i did "echo > ... " ) ...
[14:15] <ogra_> it got conent when i manually started the job
[14:16] <jodh> ogra_: that's cheating :)
[14:16] <ogra_> ok, got it
[14:16] <ogra_> "start on filesystem" works
[14:16] <ogra_> now it writes to the log on every boot
[14:17]  * ogra_ dropes the --verbose and creates a bootchart
[14:17] <ogra_> *drops
[14:18] <ogra_> i dont get why "start on startup" didnt work though
[14:18] <apw> maybe you don't have the ureadahead daemon availabe then
[14:19] <apw> and it would want to write to teh ro filessytems anyhow
[14:19] <ogra_> nope
[14:20] <ogra_> the filesystem is assembled from initrd
[14:20] <ogra_> it is fully set up before we even get to the rootfs
[14:20] <ogra_> with all writable bits
[14:20] <ogra_> and now i see ureadahead in my bootchart \o/
[14:20] <ogra_> finally
[14:21] <ogra_> but it doesnt speed up anything :(
[14:22] <ogra_> ah, no, it gains me .5 sec
[14:22] <ogra_> lxc-start runs half a sec earlier now
[14:23] <ogra_> what a great gain for half a day of work :P
[14:27] <apw> ogra_, thats pretty good :)
[14:29] <ogra_> well, lets see, i guess i can write a loop script that processes all packs (apart from the default one)
[14:29] <ogra_> that might in the end get me 2sec then :P
[14:47] <apw> yeah it might
[14:54] <jsalisbury> **
[14:54] <jsalisbury> ** Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
[14:54] <jsalisbury> **
[14:58] <mdeslaur> cking: so is thermald a dependency of something? what pulls it in? should I install it?
[14:59] <cking> mdeslaur, just install it
[14:59] <mdeslaur> cking: is something going to install it by default on our images?
[14:59] <cking> for t+1 we will make it a dependency on the kernel
[14:59] <cking> but for now it's an opt-in
[15:00] <cking> it still is a "maturing" daemon
[15:00] <mdeslaur> cking: ok, thanks!
[15:09] <apw> hallyn, ok this is occuring because you have to have read/execute access to all layers in a directory "sandwich" to read the directory
[15:10] <apw> hallyn, i am trying to figure out if this is an oversite of a deliberate decision
[15:13] <hallyn> apw: yeah it seemed possible to be on purpose, but i couldn't find where in the code itw as doing it
[15:15] <apw> hallyn, you are hitting the opendir behaviour there, where it opens each dir in each layer and merges the contents to make the virtual dir you see
[15:15] <apw> so if you make the bottom directory rx the you can see in there as well
[15:16] <apw> and i asusme the under in your scenario is empty as well
[15:18] <apw> hallyn, and the permissions check is specifically checking all layers, it is not an accident
[15:18] <apw> hallyn, it has a little loop for when we are talking about a read from a directory
[15:21] <apw> hallyn, i assume this comes from using an unmodified directory image as a lower level here ?
[15:21] <hallyn> apw: it may nto be an accident, but is it worthwhile?
[15:21] <hallyn> yes
[15:21] <hallyn> overlayfs doesn't do it...
[15:22] <apw> overlayfs is much less mature, so that tells me little about which is right
[15:24] <apw> what is it stopping you doing
[15:24] <hallyn> apw: juju creates a clone of a stock ubuntu image, then wants to chown ubuntu: /etc/ssl/private
[15:25] <hallyn> apw: thinking sensibly about the behavior, I really think aufs is the one in the wrong
[15:25] <apw> i think you need to justify that
[15:25] <hallyn> sure,
[15:25] <hallyn> to do the chown you have to be root in the first place,
[15:26] <hallyn> you can't end up corrupting the underlyign fs, you can only 'leak' data through the upper fs,
[15:26] <hallyn> but since you're root, you *could* just as well do it to the underlying fs.  there is no reasonable case i can think of where you werne't meant to 'leak' the data in the file you're chowning
[15:30] <infinity> zequence: Nope.
[15:43] <apw> hallyn, ok that needs some thinking about and upstream discussion i am sure, i'll see if i can fix it as a basis or that discussion
[15:48] <hallyn> apw: ok, thanks.  i'll watch for the thread.
[15:49] <hallyn> apw: if upstream nacks it, then i guess we'll just have to issue a warning somewhere in lxc
[15:49] <hallyn> (or drop aufs from lxc clone support - stgraber :)
[16:19] <infinity> hallyn: Well, juju could hack around the issue with 'cp -a /etc/ssl/private /etc/ssl/private.new && rm -r /etc/ssl/private && mv /etc/ssl/private.new /etc/ssl/private'
[16:19] <infinity> With a chown in there somewhere.
[16:19] <infinity> Not that that's ideal, but would get you over the hump for now.
[16:19] <hallyn> infinity: for that particular case, yeah.  but if we're goign to suggest that aufs is usable for lxc clones, that's not sufficient
[16:20] <hallyn> like i say every backing store has its deficiencies for clones, but that's just not usable
[16:20] <infinity> hallyn: Not usable is a bit extreme.  How often does one actually try to do that (traverse a directory they can't read)?
[16:21] <infinity> Is that chown happening in an unprivileged container, or outside?
[16:21] <infinity> (ie: do you have real root?)
[16:21] <infinity> If you have real root, I agree that the behaviour seems entirely wrong.
[16:21] <infinity> If you don't, I'm not sure how you're reading it at all, seems like a different bug being leveraged. :P
[16:22] <hallyn> infinity: i don't think real root matters.
[16:22] <hallyn> if i create a rootfs,
[16:22] <hallyn> then create an aufs clone container from that unprivileged, it shoudl be the same situation
[16:22] <hallyn> uid 100000 (my root) chowns a dir to uid 1001000,
[16:22] <hallyn> but uid 1001000 can't read it despite owning it
[16:23] <hallyn> maybe instead of not suable i should have said not supportable :)
[16:24] <hallyn> (as in we'll get tons of weird bug reports)
[16:24] <infinity> I'm struggling to even find a 750 directory in my schroots to experiment with. :P
[16:25] <infinity> Ahh, hello /var/cache/ldconfig
[16:26] <infinity> Okay, yeahp, has nothing to do with containers at all, that's what I wanted to make sure of.
[16:26] <infinity> (trusty-amd64)adconrad@cthulhu:/var/cache$ ls -al | grep ldconfig
[16:26] <infinity> drwx------  2 adconrad adconrad   60 Mar 18 10:25 ldconfig
[16:26] <infinity> (trusty-amd64)adconrad@cthulhu:/var/cache$ ls ldconfig/
[16:26] <infinity> ls: cannot open directory ldconfig/: Permission denied
[16:26] <infinity> That seems fundamentally broken to me.
[16:27] <hallyn> the only way it would be needed is if aufs wrongly allowed non-root to chown the dir
[16:27] <hallyn> or, does aufs support some fancy uid translation gorp?  /me checks
[16:28] <hallyn> not sure waht the 'different uid/gid/permission' in mount.aufs manpage is referring to
[16:53] <apw> most of the docs are in janglish
[16:54] <jsalisbury> ##
[16:54] <jsalisbury> ## Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - in 5 minutes - #ubuntu-meeting
[16:54] <jsalisbury> ##
[17:06]  * ppisati -> chest press
[17:50] <UserError> Why is the Lustre FS in staging?
[17:51] <UserError> It can be used from userspace and none of the desktop or notebook users will ever use it. You have a greater chance of someone using the tdfx support.
[17:51] <ogra_> why do you ask downstream ?
[17:52] <ogra_> thats a question for the people that decided to put it in stagint (the linux kernel ML for example)
[17:52] <UserError> Ubuntu has made additions and subtractions
[17:52] <UserError> Don't play that game.
[17:53] <UserError> This is pure bullshit bloat for something that should be in userspace on non-niche distros
[18:03] <apw> UserError, why are we worrying about 1.3M ?
[18:03] <UserError> 10MB
[18:04] <UserError> for a feature no-one will ever use and will also be in VM kernels by default
[18:04] <apw> i can only find one module, which is 1.3M, and why would it be in VMs
[18:04] <UserError> according to the latest staging on 3.13.5
[18:04] <UserError> it is nearing 10MB on 64bit
[18:05] <UserError> which is the only one worth using since 32bit still targets i686
[18:06] <UserError> apw, Ubuntu stated the reason it wasn't including that vpadu stuff was because of ISO size
[18:06] <UserError> So i started figuring out that the reasoning was bullshit
[18:06] <UserError> By going through every single file that was useless. Now i'm on the kernel.
[18:07] <UserError> Way to keep PandaBoard and Tegra shit in an x86 FS
[18:07] <UserError> and exynos in the kernel
[18:12] <apw> so build your own kernel with what you want in it
[18:13] <apw> not that the size of them in the filesystem tells you waht they are on the iso
[18:14] <UserError> Ignore the bloat behind the curtain until you make your own curtain
[18:14] <UserError> Nevermind that Exynos = ARM
[18:15] <apw> it is a trade off between the greatest usability against the effort to work out what is completely unusable
[18:15] <UserError> It isn't usability if it is impossible to use
[18:15] <UserError> Please, please use an x86 kernel on a exynos SoC
[18:16] <apw> if the config system says something is usable, turning it on is therefore the default position, if the thing is actually configurable but useless would require individual items to be investigated
[18:16] <apw> so i am sure we have a number of things turned on which cannot be used, due to the lack of correct dependancies
[18:16] <UserError> ARM =/= X86
[18:17] <UserError> what is the problem
[18:17] <UserError> Nothing is going to change that
[18:17] <apw> you are not hearing me, i am telling you how one ends up in this position
[18:17] <apw> you may have found a clear case indeed and if someone files a bug for it, we may indeed turn it off
[18:18] <apw> i am saying that these cases are not clear wthout investigation
[18:18] <UserError> Ok fine, FS wise, off the top of my head
[18:18] <UserError> alsa package
[18:18] <UserError> kernel wise, hw arch exynos
[18:19] <UserError> Also some TI stuff in there i have the path to somewhere
[18:20] <apw> yep and if someone has the configuration options and the justificaiton, and puts them in a bug
[18:20] <apw> there is a high probability it will get looked at and turned off
[18:21] <UserError> Right but the flaw is the fact that it could've been added from the beginning when the same SoC is powering the phones of the people who should know better
[18:21] <apw> when every kernel update has hundreds of new options one has to have a default position
[18:21] <apw> and that is to turn on things which the config system says are applicable to an arch
[18:22] <apw> and if we have 100 engineers looking at the config then it would likely be perfect
[18:23] <UserError> you could literally just use grep on the config with the major arm licensee models
[18:23] <apw> i could go and save space on a machine whiich on average doesn't care
[18:23] <apw> or i could go and work on some new feature we need
[18:23] <apw> which is it
[18:24] <UserError> right, which is going to harm the idea of ubuntu touch and other modile ideas
[18:24] <apw> nope they have non-generic kernels which are much much smaller
[18:24] <UserError> when you are having that many writes on every security update
[18:24] <UserError> every hyrbid device with similar nand/emmc to a phone
[18:25] <UserError> all those writes
[18:25] <apw> and touch devices have a minimal config, so this does not apply
[18:25] <UserError> all the VMs and appliance containers
[18:25] <UserError> you assume they are minimal, i beg to differ
[18:25] <apw> and the VMs do not have the entier kernel installed
[18:25] <apw> there is a split, between the core bits needed on a virtual system, and the rest
[18:26] <UserError> you're right, they only have joystick nonsense by default
[18:26] <UserError> and sound
[18:26] <apw> i am sure they have some bits they should not indeed, but they are less than a third of the size of the full ones
[18:27] <apw> and if you have some concrete config changes you thing are viable, feel free to propose them
[18:27] <apw> along with a testing plan
[18:27] <UserError> The thing is that this has a commutative impact
[18:28] <UserError> what is the launchpad for this
[18:28] <apw> i asume you are asking what package to file bugs against, that would be 'linux'
[18:29] <apw> but "your package is crap" isn't going to get much attention, concrete changes would likely
[18:29] <UserError> pretty much removal
[18:29] <UserError> the package is crap
[18:30] <UserError> i went through every file on sunday
[18:32] <apw> what is vpadu
[18:33] <UserError> vdpau*
[18:33] <UserError> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYwNzU
[18:34] <UserError> "too big"
[18:34] <UserError> yet the kernel can grow by tens of MB in a day
[18:35] <UserError> yet panda and tegra can just chill in alsa never to be used ever by anyone
[18:35] <apw> frankly though i may even agree that we have a lot of bloat, your attitude is getting to me
[18:35]  * ogra_ wonders if UserError is like that in real life too
[18:40] <apw> i dunno, i am nicer on irc than in real life in general
[18:41] <ogra_> heh
[18:42] <apw> to which i am sure you can attest :)
[18:42] <ogra_> well, when i meet you in person you are usually drunk already :P
[18:43] <apw> i tend to mellow after enough of that
[18:43] <ogra_> (but i'm usually in the same state)
[18:43] <UserError> Is there any plan to make the 32bit kernel or X11 / toolkit / MIR visual packages useful by targeting anything other than the PentiumPro platform with zero optimizations for hardware that actually fits the ram and CPU minimums?
[18:43] <infinity> UserError: Why would we build a 32-bit kernel that doesn't run on 32-bit hardware?
[18:44] <infinity> (Hint, you can install the amd64 kernel with a 32-bit userspace, if that's what you're after)
[18:44] <UserError> i686 with a single chipset that supports a theoretical minimum on one hand is insanity
[18:44] <UserError> not what i am talking about
[18:45] <UserError> If the recommended minimum for many packages is 800-1Ghz, and only one i686 era CPU can meet those marks on a quad setup that threads horribly...
[18:46] <UserError> Intel even proved that the major reason 64bit was faster was optimizations
[18:46] <infinity> Err, they did?  Neat trick.
[18:46] <UserError> yeh, they did
[18:46] <UserError> in 2012
[18:46] <infinity> The major reason x86_64 is faster is lack of register pressure.
[18:47] <UserError> http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2012/09/26/gcc-x86-performance-hints
[18:47] <UserError> cough
[18:47] <infinity> For some things like string functions, optimisation can make a huge difference, but you get that regardless.
[18:47] <infinity> Because IFUNC is a beautiful thing.
[18:47] <mjg59> UserError: That page appears to contain nothing to support your assertion
[18:48] <UserError> People are holding back performance on 32bit because of a single chipset
[18:48] <apw> indeed it seems to support the contention that increased registers is a ke factor
[18:48] <UserError> mjg, the gain difference with the same CPU
[18:48] <apw> key
[18:48] <UserError> because of initial targeting of SSE2 vs nothing
[18:48] <UserError> i686 is nothing
[18:56] <UserError> In a few months it will be the birthday of the MMX instruction set.
[18:56] <UserError> Still lacking, since 1997 http://download.intel.com/support/processors/pentiummmx/sb/24318504.pdf
[22:25] <infinity> zequence: You happy with the kernels in your PPA?
[22:27] <infinity> zequence: Nevermind, they look good to me, copying.
[22:39] <UserError> submitted the exynos and lustre paths
[22:39] <UserError> on to the nitty gritty
[22:59] <infinity> UserError: Is all this really fallout from one article quoting one guy as to why he's not shipping and supporting a mesa driver?
[22:59] <UserError> No
[22:59] <infinity> Sure sounded like it.
[23:00] <UserError> I'm just removing the excuse of the diff as icing on the cake. I actually am super anal about bloat
[23:00] <UserError> but their words did get plenty of my side-eye


[12:09] <jcastro> how do I get to the gui in the latest beta? I see it's deployed a unit in the admin environment
[12:10] <jcastro> but going to the ip in my browser doesn't work
[12:36] <jrwren> jcastro: `juju gui` will launch browser with url or display url.
[12:45] <jcastro> thanks
[12:56] <jcastro> jrwren: can I destroy models from the gui?
[12:58] <jrwren> jcastro: i don't know. I do not think that you can, yet.
[14:03] <hatch> jcastro: you can using the latest develop (but it's broken right now, hopefully will be fixed today)
[14:06] <jcastro> hatch: how do I use bleeding edge gui in 2.0 land?
[14:08] <hatch> jcastro: `make dist && juju upgrade-gui /path/to/dist` :)
[14:09] <hatch> but if you try that now it will break
[14:09] <jcastro> hah
[14:09] <jcastro> man dude, next time just kick me in the knee
[14:09] <jcastro> it would be sweet to have a config option to always deploy trunk gui though
[14:10] <hatch> I don't think so, we want people to use the latest stable release
[14:10]  * jcastro nods
[14:12] <hatch> jcastro: I think having the two steps makes it easy enough while providing enough of a roadblock to indicate that "maybe you should know what you're doing" to continue
[14:13] <hatch> jcastro: but we will make the gui easier to build in the future to lower that barrier
[14:16] <jrwren> jcastro: but you can build a trunk tarball yourself and juju upgrade-gui like hatch said ;]
[14:16] <jrwren> hatch: how could it be any easier?  make sysdeps deps tarball wait and hour for it to break, clean-all try again, pray? :]
[14:16] <hatch> lol
[14:17] <hatch> by simplifying the deps required to build


[01:00] <RoAkSoAx> vorian, ping
[02:15] <stochastic> anyone feel like helping me troubleshoot this package build error from pbuilder: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/218445/  I have both libboost-dev and libboost_thread-dev installed but it looks like it can't find them
[02:17] <bddebian> stochastic: You need to make it use libboot_thread-mt if you are using the newest boost libs
[02:17] <stochastic> bddebian, okay I'll hunt that down.  thanks.
[02:18] <bddebian> NP, just wherever it is linking use -lboost_thread-mt
[02:22] <binarymutant> I've got a normal 'dh $@' package, but for some reason it can't copy to debian/<package> . Why is this happening?
[02:23] <pochu> what do you mean with "can't copy"?
[02:25] <binarymutant> pochu, erm not copy but it can't build into debian/<packagename>
[02:25] <binarymutant> pochu, dh_auto_install: command returned error code 512
[02:27] <pochu> well, that alone is not very helpful
[02:27] <pochu> how about a pastebin with more context?
[02:28] <pochu> how many binary packages your package builds?
[02:28] <binarymutant> pochu, just 1
[02:29] <directhe`> if it only builds one, wouldn't it not use debian/packagename? isn't that reserved for foo.install (rather than just install) situations?
[02:30] <pochu> directhe`: if it only builds one, debhelper defaults to debian/<packagename> rather than debian/tmp, which is used when there are more than one
[02:30] <RoAkSoAx> can anyone please review/advocate: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-gmail-notifier http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lekhonee  thank you :)
[02:30] <binarymutant> pochu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/218457/ if this helps
[02:30] <bddebian> Maybe it doesn't support DESTDIR?
[02:32] <binarymutant> bddebian, I think it does
[02:33] <binarymutant> this is my Makefile http://paste.ubuntu.com/218463/
[02:35] <pochu> binarymutant: did you create usr/lib first?
[02:36] <pochu> it seems you didn't
[02:38] <directhe`> dirs?
[02:43] <binarymutant> awesome thanks everyone :)
[02:49] <stochastic> I'm trying to build a deb for this software that builds but doesn't install system wide (i.e. it just creates an executable in the local build file)  How do I make the deb install it system wide?
[02:56] <TheMuso> stochastic: If there are no commands in a makefile etc to install the binary, you just ahve to copy the binary into place.
[02:57] <stochastic> TheMuso, in a deb that would be done by "cp name /usr/bin/name" in debian/rules?  or is it more/less complex than that?
[02:57] <TheMuso> Thats what you would have to do, yes.
[02:58] <TheMuso> If you are using cdbs however, you have to do it a different way.
[02:58] <stochastic> cdbs?
[02:59] <stochastic> I just did dh_make to get the basic deb started
[03:00] <a|wen> stochastic: look at dh_install
[03:07] <TheMuso> stochastic: ok then you just copy the file.
[03:08] <TheMuso> a|wen: Thats really only useful if there are many many files to copy. If there is only one file, then its probably pointless using it.
[03:08] <TheMuso> stochastic: Mind you, using dh_install would be useful if there is ever likely to be more files that need to be put into place.
[03:09] <a|wen> TheMuso: dh_install and then just point to the single file in rules works well ... i'd say use dh_install always
[03:11] <stochastic> TheMuso, a|wen, but whichever method I use, the correct path should be /usr/bin/name
[03:11] <TheMuso> a|wen: Right, but I always think that if you use dh_install, its much better to use debian/$packagename.install files.
[03:11] <TheMuso> stochastic: right
[03:11] <vorian> RoAkSoAx: yo
[03:12] <a|wen> TheMuso: with multiple files it is ... if we are talking one file, i would just use it in rules
[03:12] <vorian> rules shmules
[03:12] <vorian> who needs em
[03:12] <stochastic> a|wen, TheMuso, thanks.
[03:13] <a|wen> vorian: you almost get your wish ... getting close to doing without the file with dh7 ;)
[03:14] <TheMuso> a|wen: Yes but using install files from the get go allows for much less work when more files need to be copied.
[03:14] <a|wen> TheMuso: true ... but using cp in rules instead of dh_install doesn't help on that :)
[03:15] <TheMuso> Yeah I know. So use whatever you wish stochastic.
[03:30] <stochastic> TheMuso, when I try to use "cp name /usr/bin/name" I get a "Cannot create /usr/bin/name: Permission Denied" error while building.  Here's the full build output if that helps: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29030820/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.xwax_0.5-0ubuntu1~ppa~jaunty3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[03:30] <stochastic> is that because it's using cdbs?
[03:31] <stochastic> a|wen ^ (looks like TheMuso just left)
[03:34] <a|wen> stochastic: it is not located in /usr/bin/name when building, but in (build-dir)/debian/name-of-package/usr/bin/name
[03:34] <a|wen> stochastic: dh_install takes care of all that automatic ... another reason for using that over cp
[03:35] <stochastic> a|wen, if I use dh_install how do I format the specification of which file to move?
[03:36] <stochastic> is it just like "dh_install name /usr/bin/name"
[03:36] <a|wen> that should work
[03:36] <a|wen> or "dh_install name usr/bin/"
[03:43] <RoAkSoAx> vorian, heya hwo's it going?
[03:58] <a|wen> stochastic: have to go now ... if you haven't got it working, just speak up in here; there is probably some other people who can help out
[04:50] <AnAnt> Hello, is CC-BY-ND a non-free license ?
[04:50] <AnAnt> Attribution-No Derivative
[04:51] <evanrmurphy> pochu: I was asking about the virtual machine so I could try and fix my first bug, I'm a prospective MOTU. Is this really the wrong channel?
[04:51] <RAOF> Sounds non-free to me.
[04:51] <RAOF> Also, CC licenses are crap.
[04:51] <evanrmurphy> Thanks for the help though, I'll try #ubuntu-server.
[04:51] <RAOF> They point towards this totally vague and incomplete motherhood license.
[04:52] <ScottK> RAOF: One of the reasons a package has to include a full copy of the license in the tarball.
[04:54] <RAOF> AnAnt: ND is definitely going to make it non-free; we're unable to alter it.
[04:54] <ScottK> AnAnt: Absolutely what RAOF said.
[04:54] <AnAnt> ok
[04:55] <RoAkSoAx> evanrmurphy, what do you wanna do?
[04:58] <evanrmurphy> RoAkSoAx: I was trying to decide whether to set up KVM or VirtualBox to run a VM of a different Ubuntu release. I noticed that KVM seemed to be preferred for various reasons, but that it always comes with the warning of needing a processor with VT extensions.
[04:59] <RoAkSoAx> evanrmurphy, I'm running KVM in a non VT processor and works fine but kinda slow
[05:00] <jmarsden> evanrmurphy: I use VirtualBox for the same reason... no VT here... so it seems different folks take different approaches to this :)
[05:01] <evanrmurphy> RoAkSoAx: Ah, that's good to know. Do you remember choosing between running paravirtualization and full virtualization (or something like that)?
[05:02] <evanrmurphy> jmarsden: I appreciate the response, glad I'm not the only one. :)
[05:02] <RoAkSoAx> evanrmurphy, I actually don't remember :) sorry :(
[05:02] <evanrmurphy> RoAkSoAx: Don't worry about it. Thanks all for the help! (Off to bed.)
[05:03] <AnAnt> how about CC-BY ?
[05:04] <AnAnt> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode
[05:04] <AnAnt> Attribution
[05:04] <RAOF> AnAnt: http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses
[05:05] <AnAnt> RAOF: thank !
[05:05] <AnAnt> RAOF: thanks !
[05:05] <RoAkSoAx> evanrmurphy, night :)
[05:07] <RAOF> AnAnt: Note the bit under the "CC-BY-SA 2.5 is DFSG incompatible" has a statement that the ftpmasters are OK with CC-BY-SA 3.0
[05:07] <AnAnt> RAOF: and CC-BY 3.0 too
[05:08] <AnAnt> Ftpmasters have already accepted CC-by and CC-by-sa 3.0
[05:08] <RAOF> Right.
[05:09] <AnAnt> thanks for that wiki link
[05:12] <porthose>  nhandler: would you please have a look at bug 389654 when you have time and leave a comment
[05:13] <nhandler> porthose: Yeah, although it might need to wait until tomorrow, I'm heading to bed soon
[05:14] <porthose> nhandler: works for me gnight
[06:04] <fabrice_sp> good morning! While merging a package (pilot-link), I've found a .udev file in debian directory, but it doesn't seems to be installed in any package. What is it for?
[06:20] <fabrice_sp> other question: what should I do if the changelog's entries for Ubuntu has been lost in previous merge? Should I restore them or respect the previous merger choice (pitti)?
[06:27] <btm> Is there a way to tell why ganglia-monitor wasn't auto-synced into karmic before DIF? (Bug #302640)
[06:28] <wgrant> btm: We don't sync from experimental by default.
[06:28] <btm> wgrant: it's in testing now actually.
[06:28] <btm> wgrant: although the date of that change may have something to do with that.
[06:29] <btm> wgrant: it was just in experimental six months ago when I opened that bug.
[06:29] <wgrant> btm: You mean the 'ganglia' source, not 'ganglia-monitor-core'?
[06:30] <wgrant> It entered unstable a day under two weeks ago.
[06:30] <wgrant> After DIF.
[06:30] <btm> word, yeah, that makes sense.
[06:31] <micahg> IS the perl artistic license compatible with Ubuntu?
[06:31] <lifeless> I believe we have lots of perl code under said licence in Ubuntu already
[06:32] <btm> wgrant: so I should track someone down who'll issue an FFE?
[06:33] <wgrant> micahg: The Perl license isn't really a license of its own, IIRC.
[06:33] <wgrant> But Artistic License 1.0 and 2.0 are DFSG-free.
[06:34] <wgrant> btm: No - you just have to request a sync.
[06:34] <wgrant> btm: DIF is just when automatic imports stop. No exception is needed until FF.
[06:36] <btm> wgrant: got it. i'll edit that bug
[06:38] <stochastic> Hey everyone, I've found a tutorial that walked me through writing my first man page for this package I'm working on, but now I'm wondering if there's any adjustment to debian/rules that's needed to make sure the binaryName.1 files are installed to the right place?
[06:41] <porthose>      stochastic: dh_installman, if using dh 7 should be automatic
[06:42] <stochastic> porthose, and as long as the binaryName.1 files are inside the debian/ subdirectory everything will be golden?
[06:42] <porthose> stochastic: yes
[06:47] <porthose> stochastic: you may need to add binaryName.manpages file to the debian dir
[06:48] <stochastic> porthose, do you know of any howto or help page in the wiki that can walk me through this?
[06:48] <porthose1> have a look at man dh_installman
[06:54] <stochastic> Does anyone want to do a revu of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/a2jmidid ?  The latest update fixes all the issues fabrice_sp had touched on last time.
[06:59] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, did you test build the package and run lintian on the deb?
[06:59] <stochastic> fabrice_sp, pbuilder is working away right now
[07:00] <stochastic> fabrice_sp, would you like me to upload the latest to my PPA for a more public build/test ground?
[07:02] <fabrice_sp> just run lintian on the resulting deb: that would throw all 'basic' errors. Any reviewer should build the package, anyway, so no need to upload to a ppa
[07:04] <stochastic> fabrice_sp, now lintian is telling me that binary-idep is a required target, but you had told me to delete those targets...
[07:04] <\sh> moins
[07:05] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, hmm, I think I told you you to empty them
[07:05] <fabrice_sp> \sh, moins
[07:05] <stochastic> my misunderstanding
[07:06] <fabrice_sp> statik, before writing my comments, I thought about it, but remember that they should exist :-)
[07:06] <fabrice_sp> You just confirmed me that :-)
[07:06] <fabrice_sp> sorry statik, , not for you
[07:06] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, ^
[07:10] <stochastic> fabrice_sp, lintian is also telling me that there's no manpages for items I have manpages for, and that it doesn't have a copyright file when clearly it does.  Any hints on how to fix these warnings?
[07:14] <fabrice_sp> check that you have dh_installman called, the file <package>.manpages in debian. For copyright, perhaps you miss a dh_installdocs call?
[07:14] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, ^
[07:18] <stochastic> fabrice_sp, you told me to get rid of dh_installdocs because there were no docs to install
[07:19] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, my bad: it installs automatically the copyright file. sorry
[07:19] <fabrice_sp> (checked with man dh_installdocs
[07:20] <stochastic> fabrice_sp, in the <package>.manpages, is it just a listing of the manpages to install or is there further formatting that is needed?
[07:20] <fabrice_sp> this is the proff that I still have a lot ot learn!
[07:20] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, just the list
[07:20] <fabrice_sp> but the full path
[07:20] <fabrice_sp> for example: debian/man/pilot-undelete.1
[07:21] <fabrice_sp> well, the relative path
[07:21] <stochastic> one path per line?
[07:22] <fabrice_sp> yes
[07:22] <fabrice_sp> path + file per line
[07:23] <dholbach> good morning
[07:24] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, actually, of you want to check what this command is doing during the build, you can export DH_VERBOSE=1 at the beginning of your rules file
[07:24] <fabrice_sp> Hey dholbach !
[07:24] <fabrice_sp> stochastic, have to go now, but you can still ask questions here. bye
[07:25] <dholbach> hey fabrice_sp
[07:59] <stochastic> can someone help me get dh_installman to work for me?  it's man page is not helping me and thats all anyone has been able to point me to so far.  I just need to get four simple man pages installed but it's not working.
[08:07] <TheMuso> stochastic: Whats happening exactly?
[08:10] <stochastic> TheMuso, this is the latest error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/218642/
[08:11] <TheMuso> stochastic: what does a2jmidi.manpages contain
[08:12] <stochastic> TheMuso, the contents of debian/a2jmidid.manpages  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/218644/
[08:12] <TheMuso> Hrm ok my guess is the manpges themselves are not written properly/malformed.
[08:13] <TheMuso> one or more of them
[08:14] <stochastic> TheMuso, here are the contents of the four manpages: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/218645/
[08:15] <stochastic> ahh, I think I see the last one is missing the .TH header
[08:15] <stochastic> wait, nope, it's there
[08:16] <stochastic> could it be that I'm calling dh_installman improperly?
[11:34] <warp10> If an app works both from terminal and from GUI, what's the best option for the needs: field in debian/menu?
[11:46] <slytherin> warp10: is debian/menu still used?
[11:48] <warp10> slytherin: maybe on some kind of very old machine. In any case, I'm packaging a software for Debian, and a menu file doesn't hurt
[11:48] <slytherin> warp10: what does 'old machine' have to do with it?
[11:50] <warp10> slytherin: I just mean that a tipical machine uses a .desktop files based menu system, and I expect that menu files based ones are more common on machines that are not that recent
[11:53] <slytherin> warp10: Your choice. I wouldn't create menu file if I was packaging from scratch.
[12:07] <therm> could someone have a look at my packages? Would like to have them in karmic:
[12:08] <therm> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/swtcalendar
[12:08] <therm> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/willuhnutil
[12:09] <therm> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/h2database
[12:09] <therm> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/willuhndatasource
[12:37] <hhb> how do i deal with patches that need to modify autotools files (configure.in, Makefile.am etc)?
[12:38] <hhb> do i need to include the resulting changes to "configure" in the patch, or is there a way to trigger regenerating this one via boostrap / autogen.sh ?
[12:45] <Laney> Are the MC going to send a coordinated response to the new application process?
[12:45] <Laney> hhb: There are two common ways - include a patch with the results of rerunning the autotools stuff, or running it at build-time (make sure your clean target works properly if you do this)
[12:47] <hhb> hm, i think i'll try the first option first. thanks.
[12:47] <geser> Laney: I guess will we discuss it today on our weekly MC call
[12:50] <Laney> geser: cool. Might be nice to invite wider comment?
[12:53] <geser> Laney: will mention it, but feel free to comment on your own
[12:54] <Laney> might just do that
[12:59] <didrocks> just a stupid question on revu: the Warnings telling "The GPL is mentionned in debian/copyright, but ... not in source ..." is not a showstopper? (some packages are uploaded without it. I reckon this is because we have the copy in our debian FS). And this is an added check to lintian (lintian file size is 0 and we still see this warning)?
[13:00] <Laney> I thought that upstream were supposed to include a copy of the GPL
[13:01] <didrocks> yes, I think that, but some package are accepted without having it. That's why I wanted to be sure about the policy we have (and I'm surprised that this is not a lintian check)
[13:02] <Laney> ask an archive admin ;)
[13:03] <didrocks> yes, that's a possibility :)
[13:03] <geser> every source package is required to have a verbatim copy of the license text
[13:04] <didrocks> conquently, some packages are wrongly advocated
[13:09] <slytherin> didrocks: No, some packages simply name the license file differently. Or they are located in a sub folder.
[13:10] <slytherin> didrocks: revu checks for presence of LICENSE or COPYING file AFAIK.
[13:11] <didrocks> slytherin: ok, thanks for the update. Are there somewhere listed the additionnal control made by revu compared to lintian?
[13:17] <slytherin> didrocks: You can ask revu hackers, or if you are brave enough check revu code on launchpad.
[13:18] <didrocks> slytherin: I will have a look, thanks :)
[13:26] <_andre> would anyone like to review/recommend the following packages? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/watchcatd http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwcat http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libapache2-mod-watchcat
[13:27] <_andre> they're lintian/revu clean
[13:28] <_andre> i finally managed to convince my boss to move our servers to ubuntu, and these packages are fundamental for our web servers
[13:28] <_andre> :)
[13:33] <alkisg> Hi, I'm using reprepro to manage a repository, and I'm getting "gpgme gave GPGME error: Bad passphrase". I don't have GUI access to use seahorse, and it seems that I'm unable to get gpg-agent to cooperate with reprepro... Any help?
[13:46] <alkisg> OK, got it :)
[13:50] <RainCT> james_w: I've just uploaded Zeitgeist again, I'd appreciate if you could take a look at it :)
[13:51] <james_w> RainCT: I'll take a look after lunch
[13:51] <RainCT> james_w: Great, thanks.
[13:54] <LarstiQ> what is this Zeitgeist I keep hearing of?
[13:59] <RainCT> LarstiQ: http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2009/zeitgeist-is-out/ :)
[14:00] <LarstiQ> RainCT: thanks!
[15:01] <slytherin> ttx: ping
[15:02] <ttx> slytherin: pong
[15:02] <slytherin> ttx: pm?
[15:02] <ttx> slytherin: sure
[16:02] <gnomefreak> nn/win 20
[16:17] <DktrKranz> has anyone familiar with intltoor ever happened to see something similar to http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29048481/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.kupfer_0%2Bc3-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz?
[16:51] <Laney> dholbach: Need to move my UDW talk to friday, going to be at a conference the rest of that week
[16:51] <Laney> anyone want monday 1800?
[16:52] <dholbach> Laney: are you happy with any of the slots still available?
[16:52] <Laney> Friday's ones are fine
[16:52] <dholbach> Laney: then just move it
[16:52] <dholbach> that's fine
[16:52] <Laney> alright
[16:52] <dholbach> I'll update it in the booklet thingie
[16:53]  * Laney goes cross-eyed at wiki table syntax
[17:24] <cpscotti> Hey.. what means the "Done" queue on lunchpad? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text= . Done means accepted by the archive admins? rejected??
[17:30] <Ampelbein> cpscotti: "done" means that processing of the file is finished, i.e. accepted, built and published.
[17:31] <cpscotti> Ampelbein: thanks!
[18:14] <Laibsch1> Hi
[18:14] <Laibsch1> How do I teach pdebuild about karmic until a proper fix is released? -> bug 399830
[19:01] <evanrmurphy> I'm browsing the harvest list because I want to fix my first bug. Would any bug I work on be for the development release, or does it depend? Thank you.
[19:07] <Laibsch> evanrmurphy: Bugs are usually fixed first in the development release (i.e. Karmic right now)
[19:07] <Laibsch> They may later be backported to stable releases
[19:07] <evanrmurphy> Laibsch: Thank you!
[20:40] <therm> Hello @all
[20:41] <therm> is there someone who likes reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/h2database ?
[20:52] <therm> Sorry that I ask this, but is it really the right way here to get packages in Ubuntu?
[20:55] <directhex> therm, yes. but auditing packages is lengthy and boring work, so you need to rely on someone with the appropriate knowledge to take their free time and spend it reading copyright
[20:58] <directhex> broadly speaking it looks okay, given i have no java skill - but i'd strongly recommend relicensing your debian/ to something else, i.e. the same license as the app itself, to eliminate the big revu warning
[20:59] <therm> directhex: I know that this is much work, but I have feeling that no one really cares about the packages uploaded on revu. I would like to help later when my experience is greater, but for now I am waiting every day that some on gives a comment for my packages so that this might be in karmic
[21:00] <ScottK> therm: The other option is to get it into Debian and then we sync from there.
[21:01] <directhex> therm, there's your comment. due to the licensing of debian/ you now have to worry whether the contents of debian/patches/ which are GPL can be linked against the rest
[21:01] <directhex> which just causes issues
[21:01] <directhex> oh, and the current standards version is 3.8.2
[21:01] <therm> directhex: thank you very much
[21:02] <Laney> therm: the best option IMHO is to find a team in Debian/Ubuntu that cares for the area your package is in
[21:02] <therm> ScottK: I heard of that but never found a website wich is telling the process, like revu for ubuntu
[21:02] <Laney> you are likely to get faster and better reviews then
[21:02] <ScottK> therm: Look at mentors.debian.net
[21:03] <therm> ScottK: thanks I will read it
[21:03] <Laney> I've found that to be an even worse black hole, fwiw
[21:04] <directhex> "talk to the java team" is what Laney is saying
[21:04] <Laney> yes sir
[21:05] <therm> Laney: would like to do that but dont now how^^, the only one I had contact to was https://launchpad.net/~onkarshinde
[21:06] <Laney> therm: google "debian java team" and find an IRC channel or mailing list
[21:06] <Laney> or ubuntu java team
[21:07] <therm> ok thanks
[21:22] <Zhenech> nellery, ping
[22:07] <RoAkSoAx> Hey guys. I'm updating a package. The new version contains hidden folders: ".svn". Should I remove those hidden folders from the source directory and tarball?
[22:07] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: yes and tell upstream
[22:09] <Laney> sebner: you'd remove them from the orig?
[22:09] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, Ok. will do thanks :). What about the debian directory provided by upstream? (It's adding entries to the changelog for Hardy, because they have seen to be doing their tests in a Hardy box)
[22:09] <Laney> urgh
[22:09] <sebner> Laney: sure, you donÄt?
[22:09] <Laney> no I wouldn't repack for that
[22:09] <sebner> Laney: gnah see. Upstream debian folder too
[22:09] <sebner> lovely upstream
[22:10] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, So i should remove upstream debian directory too in this case to not have those changelog entries?
[22:11] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: Upstream *should not* provide a debian directory. That's packagers job
[22:13] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, right. They also provided the debian dir on the previous version. I just don't know how to handle that in this case, because it seems that in the previous version, Debian has removed the debian/ dir to create their own. I'm updating ipvsadm btw
[22:14] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: that's the prefered way. You can do that by implementing a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules but collaborating with debian is the most prefered way :)
[22:15] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, Ok. Will talk to debian maintainer then :). Thanks a lot
[22:17] <sebner> np. let's have fun =)
[22:18] <fabrice_sp> Hi. gpiv is building fine in a clean chroot (using sbuild). Is it possible to relaunch the building of this package?
[22:18] <fabrice_sp> According to http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/, it's failing to build
[22:20] <geser> yes, a "give-back" to the buildds
[22:21] <sebner> geser: \o/
[22:21] <fabrice_sp> and who can do that? Motus or it has to be an archive admin?
[22:22] <geser> anyone who can upload to that component
[22:22] <geser> so MOTUs for universe/multiverse and core-devs for everything
[22:22] <fabrice_sp> ok
[22:23] <geser> fabrice_sp: done
[22:23] <fabrice_sp> as gpiv is in universe, shall I assume you will do it? :-D
[22:23] <fabrice_sp> great! tahnks :-)
[22:25] <fabrice_sp> 6 hours to go for amd64 build, but only 8 minutes for i386 ?!
[22:26] <geser> PPA or main archive?
[22:28] <fabrice_sp> main archive: gpiv
[22:28] <fabrice_sp> by the way: this error is suppose to be fixed ,right? : dpkg: error processing ca-certificates-java (--configure):
[22:29] <geser> yes
[22:29] <fabrice_sp> so could you please force the rebuild of jabsorb package? :-D
[22:29] <geser> hmm, the queue doesn't look that long for both i386 and amd64:
[22:30] <geser> https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/
[22:30] <geser> fabrice_sp: have you checked that it builds not and not fails due to an other reason?
[22:31] <fabrice_sp> good point geser: I'll sbuild it locally before
[22:32] <RainCT> Can someone point me to any docs about package configuration (ie. how to have something show up when dpkg-reconfigure is run)?
[22:41] <fabrice_sp> geser, you were right: it FTBFS because of a missing dependency (it seems to miss package javax.servlet). Will have a look tomorrow. bye
[22:49]  * RainCT tries debconf-doc
[23:34] <kwadronaut> i'm not aware of the right procedures, who to poke etc. basically silc-* in hardy has a security vulnerability, debian old-stable has a version which fixes this issue, there's a bug on launchpad and no action.
[23:34] <kwadronaut> so, what's next?
[23:37] <ScottK> kwadronaut: Make a patch (debdiff preferred) and attach it to the bug.
[23:37] <ScottK> Make sure the ubuntu-security team is subscribed to it and mark it in progress after it has the patch.
[23:39] <kwadronaut> ScottK: pulling from 'upstream' debian is not an option?
[23:40] <Laney> we need a minimal patch to fix the issue
[23:41] <ScottK> kwadronaut: If you look at the diff between the old-stable version that's fixed and the one before that's not fixed you should be well on your way to having a minimal patch.
[23:48] <kwadronaut> ok, thanks for the info