[00:46] <Sven_vB> with "Windows 2013" and "Windows 2012", I can't find the microSD at all. =)
[00:46] <Sven_vB> I'll try even older ones
[01:09] <bilb_ono> on ubuntu 18.04 in my system settings I have “automatic suspend” set to “off”. However if I wait 10 minutes or so, it still suspends (the screen goes blank, when I touch something I have to sign in again)
[01:10] <bilb_ono> I want this to never happen ever.
[01:10] <bilb_ono> what else do I do?
[01:13] <pragmaticenigma> bilb_ono: "automatic suspend" is a power saving feature for the computer as a whole. There is also a display power saving setting, which triggers a session lock, which is what you are seeing
[01:14] <bilb_ono> oh
[01:15] <bilb_ono> ok. so bigger picture , I am trying to install plexmediaserver on my comp. I am picturing that every time a machine wants to access it (to stream a video) it will need to be awake and running
[01:15] <bilb_ono> what do I need to do to make sure its awake and running
[01:17] <pragmaticenigma> bilb_ono: those settings are all availble in the "power" applet in the settings control panel. If you have disabled those features there, the computer will remain on. The behavior your describing I believe is located under the "screen" applet in the control panel, those settings will not turn off the CPU/Computer as a whole
[01:24] <bilb_ono> ok thanks
[02:24] <makey> anybody around
[02:24] <Sveta> sometimes
[02:24] <Sveta> why do you ask?
[02:25] <leftyfb> !ask | makey
[02:26] <makey> i'm trying to iso boot ubuntu 18.04 lts server off grub...in case anyone here knows
[02:28] <makey> okay tks leftyfb
[02:28] <Bashing-om> makey: See: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/ISOBoot .
[02:30] <makey> been there Bashing-om . desktop iso works as advertised but not server. i am hoping to achieve loading ubuntu server entirely in ram from a usb stick...
[02:32] <Bashing-om> makey: Sorry, not been there myself - can not say :(
[02:33] <makey> =L
[05:27] <jpuntu> Hello everyone... I have a few questions, please let me know if this is not the place.
[05:28] <jpuntu> I have 2 HP DL360 server with Dell MD3000i. I installed Ubuntu 18.04 LTS into one of them and able to connect to MD Storage with iscsi initiator...
[05:28] <jpuntu> what is the best practice to have shared storage between servers?
[05:32] <jpuntu> nop? nada? nothing? nneeeeee
[05:49] <yhm12345> mount a common dir ?
[05:50] <yhm12345> i am sorry , i made a mistake
[06:57] <MRD365> Hi
[06:57] <Sveta> hi MRD365
[06:58] <MRD365> Am from Indonesia are you?
[06:59] <Sveta> no, i speak russian and english only
[07:00] <Sveta> i haven't been to indonesia before
[07:00] <Sveta> join ke #ubuntu-id untuk membahas ubuntu dalam bahasa Indonesia
[07:09] <MRD365> Ok
[07:09] <MRD365>  ok
[07:34] <kadz> Hi. I have a Dockerfile that uses Ubuntu 14.04 as the base image. I have a python package that depends on me using Python 2.7.10 but the system Python for Ubuntu is 2.7.6. How would I go about installing a newer version of Python? Ideally I'd like to do apt-get install.
[07:40] <gde33> my touchpad is driving me insane trying to type.
[07:41] <gde33> the laptop is pretty slow, I cant tell if the inpt field lost focus or if the box is frozen
[07:41] <gde33> Im on lubuntu
[07:41] <gde33> I have a mouse hooked up
[07:45] <ayekat> kadz: update to a supported version of ubuntu - 14.04 isn't supported anymore
[07:46] <ayekat> kadz: and more generally, you typically can't upgrade to newer versions of software in the same release - that's just the concept of stable releases :-)
[07:49] <geirha> Also, why not base it on a python image instead?
[07:51] <gde33> the web pages I found about disabling the trackpad are all very old, I tried to install an app that autodetects if a mouse is plugged in but it refused to install
[07:52] <gde33> what is the right lubuntu way to do this?
[07:55] <gde33> o well, ill just put tape over it like the webcam
[07:59] <ayekat> gde33: does your laptop not have a key to disable the touchpad?
[08:00] <ayekat> alternatively, some laptop models can also disable the touchpad in the firmware (EFI/BIOS)
[08:03] <tomreyn> gde33: as always when asking such questions, it is very useful to discuss which ubuntu version you're using, and which graphical desktop. this can tell both:  nc termbin.com 9999 < <(lsb_release -ds;cat /proc/{version,cmdline};echo "$XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP ($XDG_SESSION_TYPE)";)
[08:43] <kadzpo> geirha I'll check if there's a python image that uses ubuntu as a base. Thanks.
[08:44] <geirha> If not ubuntu, there's probably a debian based one
[08:58] <Bob-Obo> Transfer rate is extremely slow, at only about 3mb/s. I thought USB 3.0 was supposed to be very fast, why is mine so slow? Is there any way to make it faster transfer speed? [SATA SSD, formatted as NTSF, connected via USB 3.0 external enclosure, transferring to Msata SSD, NTSF, installed in internal secondary drive bay, storage only, no OS]
[08:59] <mjayk> Bob-Obo: everything in the chain must be able to suppor the speeds, you should try to locate your bottle neck
[09:04] <Bob-Obo> mjayk: thanks for the reply. How would I troubleshoot that? [still a novice here]
[09:06] <mjayk> Bob-Obo: basically replace things. I.e. do you have a USB 3.0 memory stick that you can test. Can you try a different port can you try a different enclosure etc etc.
[09:07] <Bob-Obo> So there's no commands to run any kind of tests, etc?
[09:09] <mjayk> Bob-Obo: What would you be wanting to test though
[09:10] <EriC^^> Bob-Obo: you could check "dmesg" for any errors or run a smart test on the ssd i guess
[09:10] <tomreyn> NTFS will make things slow (though not necessarily this slow, unless it's many small files), consider using a better supproted file system.
[09:10] <EriC^^> i'd try a usb3 device to make sure the port works right, and then get another usb3 enclosure or something or just put the ssd straight into the sata
[09:15] <Bob-Obo> Ok so I just ran 'dmesg', gave me a rather large result, not sure how to decipher it. How do I share the result here? [pastebin?]
[09:15] <EriC^^> Bob-Obo: what's the name of the ssd? /dev/sdb etc? check "sudo parted -ls" for the name then try "dmesg | grep sdb" or whatever name you get
[09:16] <thsnr> Bob-Obo: just to be sure, can you double-check that the enclosure is connected to a usb3 port?
[09:22] <tomreyn> Bob-Obo: dmesg | pastebinit
[09:24] <tomreyn> this will submit the full (though possibly shortened, if longer than the websites' limit) kernel log to paste.ubuntu.com
[09:27] <jizzle> hi is this also a channel for ubuntu server users?
[09:27] <lotuspsychje> jizzle: its allowed, but there are also alot of experts in #ubuntu-server
[09:27] <jizzle>  /msg NickServ IDENTIFY jizzle-con m4r154##
[09:27] <Bob-Obo> thsnr: yes, all ports on here are 3.0
[09:28] <jizzle> fuck
[09:29] <jizzle> so.. changed the pw
[09:30] <Bob-Obo> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PGFtZzvGb7/
[09:36] <Bob-Obo> transferring from sdc to sda
[09:37] <Bob-Obo> Results of "dmesg | grep sdc" = http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6D2D54RBnS/
[09:44] <EriC^^> Bob-Obo: try googling an error to see what comes up
[10:28] <Bob-Obo> EriC^^: what do you mean? Can you be more specific please?
[10:31] <tomreyn> Bob-Obo: your log showed error messages regarding /dev/sdc which will cause serious data transfer problems
[10:33] <Bob-Obo> hmm.. I dont know how to read any of that data. Im just a new linux user, non-programmer. Just an avg joe.
[10:40] <tomreyn> Bob-Obo: we enither, we can just search the web as well. it would be good to have more information, such as how this drive identifies itself.this may provide this information:   disconnect what was connected to usb and became the sdc drive. then run     udevadm monitor -k    in a terminal, then connect this usb device. then wait a few seconds and press ctrl-c to return to the shell. then post any output printed there.
[10:40] <juanonymous> i have a quick question, how do you grant file permission in ubuntu?
[10:40] <juanonymous> like this one - Tcl error [::DuckHunt::update_nickchange_tracking]: couldn't open "scripts/duck_hunt/database/pending_transfers.db": permission denied
[10:41] <juanonymous> i need to grant permission on the folder database
[10:41] <juanonymous> i did chmod +x scripts/duck_hunt/database
[10:41] <juanonymous> but it did not solve the problem
[10:43] <rory> juanonymous: you are running CloudBot right?
[10:43] <tomreyn> juanonymous: the user executing this script must be able to do so. if this is *your* user, then you already solved this part. however, the user executing this script must also be allowed to enter the directory this script is stored in. that's the other condition which must be satisfied.
[10:43] <rory> juanonymous: the user who is running CloudBot needs to have permissions to write to that file. Changing the executable bit won't sort it. You probably want to run "chown -R username: /path/to/cloudbot" where "username" is the name of the user running cloudbot
[10:44] <tomreyn> oh right, that's a database, not a script, sorry.
[10:44] <rory> juanonymous: if you're in doubt, share the output of "ls -l /path/to/scripts/duck_hunt/databases" in a pastebin
[10:45] <juanonymous> will do
[10:45] <tomreyn> still the need to be able to access the directory still applies.
[10:45] <juanonymous> one moment
[10:45] <rory> what user is running the cloudbot process? "ps aux | grep -i cloudbot" - first column is username
[10:45] <tomreyn> i think it's  "ls -l /path/to/scripts/duck_hunt/database"
[10:46] <rory> well whatever
[10:46] <tomreyn> (singular, not plural 'database'
[10:46] <rory> but yeah you are right
[10:48] <rory> juanonymous: "chmod +x scripts/duck_hunt/database" will only set permissions on the directory, not the files within it. So it would allow listing the directory contents only.
[10:49] <rory> that is a special meaning of +x executable bit, that applies to directories. since executing a directory doesn't make sense.
[10:50] <juanonymous> https://termbin.com/1a88
[10:51] <rory> juanonymous: OK so it's all owned as root.
[10:51] <rory> juanonymous:  what user is running the cloudbot process? "ps aux | grep -i cloudbot" - first column is username
[10:51] <rory> juanonymous: (assuming it is cloudbot)
[10:52] <juanonymous> it's hoy
[10:52] <juanonymous> username is hoy
[10:52] <rory> "hoy" is the username? If so, you need to just make all those files owned by "hoy" like so:
[10:52] <rory> sudo chown -Rv hoy:hoy /path/to/cloudbot
[10:53] <rory> as, by design, "hoy" user usually can't modify files owned by root
[10:53] <juanonymous> what does -Rv means btw?
[10:53] <juanonymous> sorry
[10:53] <rory> -R means recursive, enter all subdirectories
[10:53] <rory> -v just menas verbose, print what it's doing
[10:53] <rory> be careful youdon't typo the path
[10:53] <juanonymous> oh i see
[10:53] <juanonymous> verbrose
[10:53] <rory> because "sudo chown -R" will happily go over your entire filesystem if you accidenally tell it to
[10:55] <rory> after you run that, you can run "ls -l" again and you should see the directory "database" owned by hoy now
[10:55] <rory> you can test by trying to create file in that directory as "hoy" user using "touch" command. prior to running chown, you would have got permission denied error.
[10:55] <rory> or just run cloudbot of course
[10:57] <rory> chown shouldn't take that long
[11:00] <ANAND> Hello! I'm afraid this one's trivial, but I just wanted to double-check that my guess is right - the mv command can move *and* rename at the same time, right?
[11:00] <ANAND> e.g. mv image.png ../renamed.png
[11:00] <EriC^^> ANAND: correct
[11:00] <ANAND> Ok, thanks! :)
[11:01] <ANAND> Have a great day
[11:15] <juanonymous> thanks
[11:16] <juanonymous> it's all good now
[12:35] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:18] <Sven_vB> hi
[13:25] <BluesKaj> o/
[13:31] <Shibe> is ubuntu on kernel 5.1 yet?
[13:35] <BluesKaj> no
[14:17] <jil> hello
[14:18] <jil> how do I ensure that my clock is synced with NTP ?
[14:20] <mgedmin> jil: service systemd-timesyncd status ?
[14:20] <tomreyn> jil: on a default ubuntu installation, this should already be the case. if you disabled it,    timedatectl set-ntp true
[14:25] <jil> I get an error with a programm make resquest to a rest sever.  one git issus suggest to check the clock syncronization and to set the time server to time.nist.gov
[14:25] <jil> but I see that ntpdate should help
[14:25] <B|ack0p> ubuntu launches some apps very slow. it takes 20-30 seconds to open
[14:26] <jil> no, I get the error from a python function making a request to an only service.
[14:28] <pragmaticenigma> !details | B|ack0p
[14:29] <B|ack0p> ok
[14:29] <B|ack0p> for example vscode and spotify is launching very very late
[14:30] <B|ack0p> maybe snap apps launching slow?
[14:30] <jadax> Do you know how I can get notepad++ for Ubuntu 18.04?
[14:30] <B|ack0p> jadax: search in ubuntu store
[14:30] <pragmaticenigma> B|ack0p: Both of those applications operate inside of Snaps, which is a containered environment. Performance issues would have to be addressed by their respective development teams.
[14:30] <tomreyn> jil: i assume B|ack0p was not responding to you there, but stating a separate issue they're trying to get help with.
[14:30] <mgedmin> B|ack0p: a 20-30 second delay screams "DNS problem" to me
[14:30] <mgedmin> but don't take it as gospel
[14:31] <B|ack0p> jadax: https://snapcraft.io/notepad-plus-plus
[14:31] <tomreyn> jil: which ubuntu version are you using, are all updates installed, are you running a recent kernel?
[14:31] <B|ack0p> mgedmin: hmm
[14:31] <jadax> B|ack0p I normally use just apt-get, snap is alternative to apt-get, right?
[14:32] <B|ack0p> jadax: yes
[14:32] <jadax> I don't want to maintain two separate package managers
[14:32] <jadax> is that how people do it these days?
[14:32] <tomreyn> jil: and does the time reported by     timedatectl status     seem correct?
[14:32] <EriC^^> i try to use apt only
[14:32] <mgedmin> yes and no: both can be used to install software, but they install from different package archives so the selection of things (and versions) you can install with apt vs snap is different
[14:32] <ioria> B|ack0p, snaps are slow  due to a font-caching issue (but should be fixed soon)
[14:33] <mgedmin> when something is not available through apt-get, I'm quite happy to install it via snap
[14:33] <B|ack0p> ioria: well today i received some updates about font-caching issue..
[14:33] <B|ack0p> also i got an error while opening firefox
[14:33] <B|ack0p> vs code and spotify killing me really waiting to open
[14:34] <ioria> B|ack0p, should be fixed soon (not right now :þ)
[14:34] <B|ack0p> and i dont understand if i clicked properly because circle doesnt turn when i click
[14:34] <B|ack0p> normally when i click on an icon circle suppose to turn to show the process :p
[14:34] <B|ack0p> ioria: ok i wait
[14:35] <B|ack0p> i prefer to use apt but some doesnt have that.. so i had to install via snap
[14:36] <B|ack0p> i think ubuntu should find a way to make it only 1 installation type
[14:36] <B|ack0p> snap with store or apt-get without store
[14:36] <B|ack0p> with store it feels commercial line iOS or Google play
[14:36] <ioria> B|ack0p, gnome-software probably will drop snaps
[14:36] <B|ack0p> i prefer apt-get without store
[14:37]  * mgedmin carefully refrains from mentioning that he also installs some tools with cargo install, pip install, and gem install
[14:37] <B|ack0p> ioria: perfect! hope they drop soon
[14:37] <OerHeks> why only 1 installation type, freedom!
[14:37] <EriC^^> snap has some security benefits as well no?
[14:37] <B|ack0p> mgedmin: good for you :p i dont know what they are lol
[14:38] <mgedmin> cans of worms, basically
[14:38] <B|ack0p> OerHeks: if u mention about freedom why dont we install .exe too? :p
[14:38] <OerHeks> snaps is like a ppa, trust the maintainer
[14:38] <mgedmin> wine installwizard.exe
[14:38] <B|ack0p> not all
[14:38] <OerHeks> well, it is not the right channel for a flamewar, B|ack0p
[14:38] <B|ack0p> ok ok
[14:38] <OerHeks> lets get back to support, thanks
[14:38] <B|ack0p> sorry
[14:39] <B|ack0p> i got excited :p
[14:39] <TJ-> shame snap didn't :p
[14:39] <B|ack0p> but this is not freedom lol
[14:40] <B|ack0p> is vscode snap? i think i installed it via apt-get
[14:40] <B|ack0p> i dont remember..
[14:40] <TJ-> mgedmin: I think the core difference is, when trying to give support, cargo/pip/gem don't integrate into software centre, so operators shouldn't be mislead into believing what is installed is supported (by Ubuntu community)
[14:42] <B|ack0p> ubuntu is buggy today :/
[14:43] <B|ack0p> i received update "libexiv2-14
[14:43] <B|ack0p> whatever it is
[14:45] <mgedmin> sounds like a library for extracting the metadata from JPEG files
[14:45] <TJ-> !info libexiv2
[14:45] <B|ack0p> hmm
[14:46] <TJ-> !info libexiv2-14
[14:46] <TJ-> ha, thought the -14 was the debian package version number
[14:46] <B|ack0p> still no idea .p
[14:47] <TJ-> lots of packages reverse-depend on that one ("apt-cache rdepends libexiv2-14")
[14:47] <B|ack0p> ok
[15:03] <dbrass> I'm trying to find how to fill the password prompt for full disk encryption with LUKS on LVM with the Nvidia driver. I get a low resolution image of the prompt but text appears over the image as I type. Is there a kernel parameter like nomodeset that needs to be used?
[15:08] <dbrass> I'm trying to use the VGA port on a thinkpad W530 and I need to switch to discrete graphic only so I need to be able to boot using the Nvidia proprietary driver.
[15:17] <tomreyn> dbrass: about the dm-crypt/luks prompt, this can be bug 1638983
[15:18] <TJ-> dbrass: you should just be able to type the pass-phrase blind
[15:19] <tomreyn> also GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=text may help https://askubuntu.com/questions/898444/how-to-enable-text-mode-luks-passphrase-prompt-on-boot#answers
[15:21] <TJ-> just remove "splash" from the kernel command-line at boot
[15:22] <TJ-> dbrass: actually, the plymouth initrd.img scripts look for nosplash*|plymouth.enable=0
[15:22] <TJ-> dbrass: so add "nosplash" and remove "splash" and you should get a text mode
[15:23] <dbrass> Thanks, I'll have a look at these options
[15:24] <B|ack0p> is it safe to add OpenPGP and SSH Keys in launchpad?
[15:24] <tomreyn> public keys, yes
[15:25] <B|ack0p> i hide my email but when somebody clicks on my PGP it shows my email
[15:25] <B|ack0p> in my launchpad profile
[15:25] <TJ-> good reason to use one email address per target
[15:26] <B|ack0p> i cant have many email per target
[15:26] <tomreyn> not even with a plus character?
[15:27] <B|ack0p> how?
[15:27] <tomreyn> myadrress@somedoma,in -><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:28] <tomreyn> and now without the typos: myaddress@somedoma,in -><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:28] <B|ack0p> tomreyn: it means i have to get another email
[15:28] <tomreyn> whether this +something is available depends on your e-mail host and whether they implement such standards, though
[15:29] <TJ-> B|ack0p: it depends on your receiving MTA; most mail services support this (it is called address tagging), but if like me you run your own MTA you can configure Postfix etc. to do it too
[15:29] <dbrass> quit
[15:30] <B|ack0p> unfortunately i am using common email host services..
[15:30] <TJ-> In Postfix the character(s) are set via recipent_delimiter: http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#recipient_delimiter
[15:30] <B|ack0p> TJ-:  u mean Alias?
[15:30] <TJ-> B|ack0p: easy to test; get someone to send you an email at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and see if you receive it
[15:31] <B|ack0p> TJ-: even it is gmail?
[15:31] <TJ-> B|ack0p: I'm almost certain GMail supports it, in fact it was the service that made it popular I think
[15:32] <B|ack0p> what about Outlook?
[15:32] <TJ-> B|ack0p: I think this covers it, from 2008, https://gmail.googleblog.com/2008/03/2-hidden-ways-to-get-more-from-your.html
[15:32] <B|ack0p> i dont have gmail
[15:33] <tomreyn> maybe ask about what you have then ;)
[15:33] <B|ack0p> i m using Outlook
[15:33] <B|ack0p> actually if there is linux friendly free email provider i am happy to use it
[15:34] <B|ack0p> i found disroot.org but not much usefull
[15:34] <TJ-> B|ack0p: yes, see https://www.ghacks.net/2013/09/17/can-now-use-email-aliases-outlook-com/
[15:36] <tomreyn> there is no friendly free email provider. either you trade in your privacy, or they are donation based.
[15:37] <cmrabet> How can I force dpkg to install the same package and version again overwriting the previous one OR install a new version without deleting the files that were there before? Thanks.
[15:37] <de-facto> Any experience with Asmedia-ASM1351 USB to SATA bridge chipset? Does it work properly with UASP/TRIM etc?
[15:37] <TJ-> cmrabet: "sudo apt --reinstall install <package>"
[15:38] <cmrabet> TJ-, I'm using dpkg, I wrote a system program that calls it. I can't use apt-get
[15:39] <TJ-> cmrabet: so "dpkg --install <package>" ?
[15:39] <cmrabet> TJ-, that doesn't seem to overwrite the files if the version of the package is the same as the one already installed
[15:39] <de-facto> cmrabet, did you "man dpkg"? there are loads of options to choose from
[15:40] <cmrabet> TJ-, if the versions are different, then yes, dpkg does install, but the problem is that it removes any files that existed in the previous one. I guess what I need is "incremental" updates.
[15:41] <cmrabet> I'm generating deb packages that contain "additions" to the previous versions, rather than the whole software over and over with new changes.
[15:41] <cmrabet> "additions" or "changes" to the previous versions.
[15:41] <TJ-> cmrabet: you mean package deltas?
[15:41] <hortiel> ihi
[15:41] <hortiel> what is preformatted text means in librewriter?
[15:42] <hortiel> in what way it's removes the formatting
[15:42] <cmrabet> TJ-, aha, I don't know what that is, but I'll research, package deltas?
[15:43] <TJ-> !info debdelta | cmrabet are you using the existing tooling?
[15:43] <Ozi> How do i install "wine:i386"??
[15:44] <cmrabet> TJ, thanks
[15:44] <TJ-> cmrabet: e.fg. http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/en/man1/debdelta.1.html
[15:44] <tomreyn> Ozi: sudo apt update && sudo apt install wine:i386
[15:44] <Ozi> thanks tomreyn
[15:44] <tomreyn> Ozi: depending on the ubuntu version you're on, this will return an erro message with additional instructions
[15:46] <tomreyn> hortiel: i'm not sure whether this applies to the librewriter context, but normally 'preformatted' text is text displayed in a monospaced font, a font where all characters display with the same width.
[15:46] <cmrabet> TJ-, I think dpkg has flags for what I want to do, --update-avail and --merge-avail
[15:48] <tomreyn> hortiel: within a preformatted section, you'd also expect that other text formats are ignored while 'preformatting' applies. basically, text is displayed as it would have been before (pre) formatting it.
[15:49] <TJ-> cmrabet: I don't think so, those are deprecated methods of updating the 'available' database of package control info
[15:52] <hortiel> how do I get table of content which I canclick to go to that chapter without scroolling
[15:53] <TJ-> hortiel: https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Creating_a_Table_of_Contents
[15:54] <TJ-> hortiel: preformatted text is a monospaced font so columns on all rows align; it's part of the support for HTML PRE element
[15:57] <hortiel> coulmns in tables?
[15:58] <TJ-> hortiel: no, the columns in text
[16:00] <B|ack0p> i deleted PGP and trying to create new key in Passwords and Keys but it doesnt create
[16:00] <B|ack0p> what can i do?
[16:00] <B|ack0p> ah done
[16:01] <B|ack0p> it was slow
[16:03] <B|ack0p> ubuntu is buggy today
[16:03] <B|ack0p> slow running and apps crashing
[16:03] <B|ack0p> cant open thunderbird now
[16:03] <OerHeks> seems like your system only, B|ack0p
[16:03] <B|ack0p> yes my ubuntu system
[16:03] <B|ack0p> Thunderbird is already running, but is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the existing Thunderbird process, or restart your system.
[16:04] <tomreyn> either wait for it to close properly, or run     killall thunderbird
[16:05] <tomreyn> or, worst case, accepting data loss:  killall -9 thunderbird
[16:05] <B|ack0p> opened now after several crashes
[16:05] <B|ack0p> now addon doesnt work
[16:05] <B|ack0p> Enigmail
[16:05] <tomreyn> looks like your system generally behaves unstable, maybe try to solve this first of all
[16:05] <tomreyn> that's not a good foundation to build on.
[16:06] <B|ack0p> how build on?
[16:06] <B|ack0p> brb
[16:06] <tomreyn> check your system logs, make sure there are no critical errors
[16:06] <B|ack0p> maybe i should reboot
[16:06] <B|ack0p> ok logs first
[16:08] <OerHeks> so, you messed around with keys, now a 3rd party plugin is bugging you?
[16:09] <B|ack0p> probably
[16:09] <B|ack0p> ok message popped up about mozilla
[16:09] <B|ack0p> to report
[16:11] <B|ack0p> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/X6Tr2YTddm/
[16:12] <OerHeks> after changing keys,  it is logical to restart thunderbird, no?
[16:15] <B|ack0p> ok
[16:15] <hortiel> i couldn't do it,what do they mean by that.
[16:15] <hortiel> The best way to generate a table of contents is to apply the predefined heading paragraph styles, such as "Heading 1", to the paragraphs that you want to include in your table of contents.
[16:16] <jil> tomreyn: my issue is settled too.  Thank you
[16:22] <wr> where can get ubuntu iso with bare system, no gnome?
[16:23] <TJ-> hortiel: maybe this will help more: https://libreofficehelp.com/add-table-of-contents-libreoffice-writer/
[16:23] <OerHeks> wr, server or mini iso?
[16:23] <wr> OerHeks, mini
[16:24] <OerHeks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[16:24] <wr> OerHeks, after said mini iso was on that link, but thanks
[16:24] <OerHeks> wr, mini iso is unsuitable for UEFI bios systems
[16:25] <wr> OerHeks, what DE will be the fastest and lowest resouce to install, i just need to do a test VM
[16:25] <wr> OerHeks, i dont have UEFI ye
[16:25] <wr> *yet
[16:25] <OerHeks> lubuntu, mate, xubuntu ..
[16:25] <wr> OerHeks, lower than lubuntu any?
[16:26] <OerHeks> maybe i3wm ?
[16:26] <OerHeks> xubuntu is pretty low on resources, for me
[16:27] <wr> OerHeks, the lowest i know is lubuntu, lower i think have to just use a WM
[16:27] <lotuspsychje> wr: low/lightest also depends on the hardware, sometimes the hardware runs better on a xubuntu for example
[16:28] <wr> lotuspsychje, in my all hardwares lubuntu always is lower and i have used it on three different pc's
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> wr: im just second OerHeks advice, xubuntu is also pretty low on resources
[16:35] <wr> lotuspsychje, prefer lubuntu, i have used xubuntu bfore
[16:37] <Sven_vB> TJ-, so far with acpi_osi settings I just got errors to the effect of "no such file /dev/mmcblk2". could it appear with other names?
[16:38] <B|ack0p> TJ-: thanks. i created mail alias
[16:38] <Antoine> Hello, I have just installed Ubuntu 19.10 on my laptop Acer aspire E1-571G. When I checked "secure boot", it wouldn't boot, it hanged after LSB something (sorry I forgot the exact thing). Now I unchecked secure boot and third party drivers as well and it boots but it says "Failed to start Switcheroo Control Proxy". Is this something I should worry about?
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> Antoine: come join to #ubuntu+1 please
[16:39] <Antoine> lotuspsychje: Ok, why?
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> Sven_vB: have you been able to install on that acer?
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> Antoine: 19.10 support is handled in #ubuntu+1
[16:39] <Antoine> Ok thanks
[16:39] <Antoine> Oh sorry my bad
[16:39] <Sven_vB> Antoine, I'm currently debugging an annoying Acer as well. with that one it's normal it seems to freeze for about a minute in regular startup; also yesterday it froze a bit earlier and longer, so I hard-reset it and it booted normally.
[16:40] <Antoine> Its Ubuntu 19.04, the latest from Ubuntu website, sorry
[16:40] <Sven_vB> lotuspsychje, haven't tried yet. I managed to boot GRUB from the HDD once, but couldn't reproduce yet.
[16:44] <Sven_vB> I just tested without the acpi_osi options, still can't see mmcblk2. maybe the card just unstuck.
[16:46] <Sven_vB> yeah. there goes one hour of testing wasted.
[16:52] <hortiel> TJ-: but ctrl+enter is not working insteading ctrl+click is? I'd like a cmd,...
[16:53] <hortiel> TJ-: I read your tutorial and succeeded but click is only working.
[16:54] <Tenkawa> is there anything in the plasma window manager that would qualify as the side by side multiple desktop switcher ie xfce?
[16:55] <Tenkawa> er plasma desktop world..
[16:55] <Tenkawa> a widget or add-on?
[16:56] <Tenkawa> closest one I've found so far seems to be pager and its a bit heavy
[17:01] <Sven_vB> hortiel, if OO becomes all too annoying, you could try switching to more text-based markups where you have full control over roles and layouts, e.g. HTML or TeX (I used LyX, https://www.lyx.org/Walkthrough)
[17:07] <Walex> An even simpler alternative is MarkDown, but it has several limitations.
[17:09] <Walex> Tenkawa: you can add one to the "sidebar" which is pretty much the same as the XFCE one
[17:10] <hortiel> Sven_vB: i came from emacs
[17:10] <hortiel> what is OO? it's LO libreoffice  not openoffice.
[17:11] <Tenkawa> oh? let me take a look
[17:11] <Sven_vB> hortiel, oh right, I still had the old name in mind.
[17:11] <hortiel> Shortcut Keys for Tables in LibreOffice Writer ... https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Shortcut_Keys_for_Writer
[17:13] <Tenkawa> Walex: thanks.. I'll take a look
[17:13] <Antoine> So can I safely ignore "Failed to start Switcheroo Control Proxy"?
[17:20] <OerHeks> known issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/switcheroo-control/+bug/1768988
[17:20] <OerHeks> make sure your bios version is up2date
[17:21] <OerHeks> if it still fails, disable secure boot, but that is a rough solution
[17:49] <Antoine> OerHeks: I think I can only disable secure boot by switching from uefi to legacy
[17:49] <Antoine> That might involve reinstalling, which I'd like to avoid
[18:22] <B|ack0p> now only issue is not existing Guest user --
[18:23] <B|ack0p> i cant imagine how stable win10 is working on my 10 yrs old thinkpad core2duo
[18:23] <B|ack0p> i mean more stable than win7 not ubuntu :p
[18:24] <B|ack0p> oh sorry wrong place
[18:25] <B|ack0p> dualboot is confusing sometimes :p
[18:40] <becool> i'm trying to locate a script that's creating sql dumps to a remote storage location. how do i find out where the script is?
[18:41] <lordcirth> becool, you could use the inotify tools to see what process opens the files.
[18:42] <lordcirth> But you could also grep through cron
[18:54] <becool> lordcirth: good suggestions
[19:00] <becool> nothing in local cron dirs. this script is on a remote system somewhere and i'm trying to trace where
[19:20] <coffeecow> Is there anyone here who prefers Seahorse over KeePassXC after trying them both?
[19:20] <lotuspsychje> coffeecow: come join in #ubuntu-discuss please
[19:29] <becool> lordcirth: how do i use inotify tools?
[19:31] <lordcirth> becool, hmm, I thought that inotify-wait could tell you the process that touched it, but it seems not?
[19:31] <JonelethIrenicus> I have a USB drive I got from a company
[19:31] <JonelethIrenicus> when i insert it
[19:31] <JonelethIrenicus> it types RR on linux
[19:31] <JonelethIrenicus> i imagine the person thought I would be on windows
[19:31] <JonelethIrenicus> why is it doing this?
[19:31] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, what do you mean it types RR? You mean it shows up as a keyboard and sends keypresses?
[19:31] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: not sure
[19:31] <lordcirth> becool, however, if this script is running over ssh, you could monitor /var/log/auth.log?
[19:32] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: it would seem so
[19:32] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, that is a very suspicious thing for a USB stick to do.
[19:32] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: i agree, but i want to make sure
[19:32] <JonelethIrenicus> how can i get to the files on this?
[19:33] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, does it show up as a mass storage device at all?
[19:33] <lordcirth> lsblk -f
[19:34] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: thanks
[19:35] <Rochvellon> Hi, I've got a problem. there is somewhere a trigger in my system (desktop, xfce) that let crackle my audio periodically and if xfce4-volumed is active the osd volume appears then. what could it be? the first time this behaviour happend was as I pressed the volume up or down on my old keyboard but it happens with my new keyboard too
[19:35] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: no luck
[19:35] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, 'lsusb' - do you see a second keyboard?
[19:35] <sarnold> JonelethIrenicus: 'xev' can show you what the usb keyboard types when you plug it in
[19:35] <lordcirth> ^ also good
[19:36] <sarnold> lordcirth: and usbguard (and the corresponding qt applet! get it!) can authorize or not specific USB devices, to preven tthe keyboard from being *used*
[19:36] <sarnold> sogh.
[19:36] <sarnold> ffffffs
[19:36] <sarnold> JonelethIrenicus: ^^ see above message about usbguard and the qt applet! don't forget the applet.
[19:36] <lordcirth> That's cool, I will look into that!
[19:37] <sarnold> becool: bpfcc-tools may be helpful to you
[19:39] <Sven_vB> TJ-, I've now exhaused all candidate windows versions for acpi_osi=, all of them just yield "open: Read-only file system". :( any next ideas?
[19:41] <Tenkawa> Sven_vB: what ya working on?
[19:41] <Tenkawa> I missed the earlier details
[19:42] <Sven_vB> Tenkawa, trying to create a new partition in trailing free space on /dev/mmcblk2, which is a microSD card plugged into the internal microSD slot of an Acer SW5-012 running a bionic live session.
[19:42] <becool> i was able to locate the script
[19:42] <becool> thanks everyone
[19:43] <Sven_vB> Tenkawa, as a pre-step, we were trying to debug why it's read-only. the command that produced said error message is "sudo mmc writeprotect user get /dev/mmcblk2" and same for boot instead of user.
[19:43] <TJ-> Sven_vB: must be the device then
[19:44] <Tenkawa> Sven_vB: what device driver does it use
[19:44] <Tenkawa> do a dmesg | grep mmc and look for any messages about read only or errors
[19:45] <Tenkawa> from a terminal
[19:50] <Sven_vB> Tenkawa, can't find anything suspicious. some partitions on mmcblk1 are unclean but mmcblk1 is r/w so it shouldn't matter. http://paste.debian.net/plainh/c36578ad
[19:50] <Sven_vB> oh, actually, "(ro)" in "3.73 GiB (ro)"
[19:54] <Sven_vB> could it be the device needs a greeting from the official driver at least once? the windows that shipped on the SSD doesn't recognize the microSD slot, so I guess the official driver was never run, if such a driver even exists.
[19:58] <Sven_vB> there's a "Platform Drivers Installer" on https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/5547 , I'll try to install that in Windows.
[20:07] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: let me look one sec sarnold
[20:07] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: yes i do
[20:07] <JonelethIrenicus> 1111:2222
[20:08] <JonelethIrenicus> doesn't say keyboard though
[20:09] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, "1111:2222" isn't a real manufacturer code either. You've got a BadUSB firmware attack there.
[20:09] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: i think it is purposeful obfuscation by a company
[20:10] <JonelethIrenicus> Pandora International Ltd
[20:10] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, what legitimate reason would they have to give you a USB with hacked firmware?
[20:10] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: if they don't want you to look at the drives contents?
[20:11] <lordcirth> that's what encryption is for. Obfuscation at the drive controller level is absurd
[20:11] <lordcirth> (Which isn't to say that some PHB couldn't have ordered it)
[20:12] <JonelethIrenicus> i dont know it just got dropped in my lap
[20:16] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, you should probably ask whoever gave it to you why it has modified firmware, then.
[20:16] <lordcirth> JonelethIrenicus, did you try xev as mentioned above?
[20:16] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: they aren't gonna tell me or they do not know
[20:17] <JonelethIrenicus> not yet
[20:17] <lordcirth> try it. It's likely that the "RR" is just the printable portion of a longer string, probably involving Super+R (windows Run)
[20:19] <arpad2> hi there, I have problem that after nvidia driver is installed it is not in use on a nvidia optimus ubuntu system
[20:20] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: wich chipset and driver version please?
[20:20] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: hi, how can I find this info?
[20:21] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: sudo lshw -C video && ubuntu-devices
[20:21] <arpad2> lotuspsychje:
[20:21] <lotuspsychje> !paste
[20:22] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rtmMcmysJX/
[20:23] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: ubuntu-drivers list
[20:25] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: ubuntu-drivers list nvidia-driver-390 nvidia-340
[20:25] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: ok tnx, doublecheck nvidia-settings now, to see if your its set on performance mode or powersaving mode
[20:26] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: lotuspsychje
[20:26] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/889ZytWkSP/
[20:27] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: nvidia-settings has a GUI icon, could you try that?
[20:28] <jarnos> How do you report a bug in nouveau. I think I am using it, but ` ubuntu-bug nouveau` tells "dpkg-query: no packages found matching nouveau"
[20:28] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: PRIME profile: NVIDIA
[20:28] <lotuspsychje> jarnos: before filing bugs, we reccomend to ask your issue in this channel, maybe volunteers have a solution or idea
[20:29] <lordcirth> jarnos, "apt search nouveau" will tell you which package you are actually using
[20:29]  * Tenkawa falls over cleaning house
[20:30] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: if nvidia(performance mode) is enabled, you should be good
[20:30] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: thats what you wanted, to use nvidia?
[20:31] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: yes, so it will use the card when higher performance is needed?
[20:31] <arpad2> for instance in Steam games
[20:31] <jarnos> lordcirth, oh, or even better ` dpkg -l | grep nouveau`
[20:31] <lordcirth> that too
[20:31] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: you can test yourself to switch betweent he 2
[20:31] <lotuspsychje> *between
[20:32] <Tenkawa> oh is it one of those optimus setups?
[20:32] <Tenkawa> (I think nvidia uses optimus)
[20:32] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: ok
[20:33] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: so that error message from terminal in nvidia-settings is not important?
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> Tenkawa: its nvidia-prime now gets installed togheter with the nvidia driver
[20:33] <jarnos> lotuspsychje, I just wanted to report that there is tearing issue with nouveau driver. Test video: https://youtu.be/MfL_JkcEFbE
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> arpad2: correct, you can deny
[20:34] <lotuspsychje> jarnos: ubuntu version, card chipset and driver version please?
[20:34] <arpad2> lotuspsychje: ok, thank you lotuspsychje for your help and effort
[20:34] <jarnos> lotuspsychje, nouveau driver seems to be working best with Firefox, whereas nvidia driver works best with google-chrome.
[20:41] <JonelethIrenicus> lordcirth: good point
[20:47] <kainengran> Why wouldn't my at commands work? I run `echo "test" | at now +1 minute` and don't get anything in the terminal.
[20:48] <lordcirth> kainengran, I wouldn't expect that to print to the terminal?
[20:48] <lordcirth> Well actually, I get "job 1 at Mon Jul 15 16:49:00 2019" from at
[20:48] <kainengran> Sorry, I meant terminal emulator xterm.
[20:49] <kainengran> So where does it echo?
[20:49] <BovineWalrusVamp> Is it possible to mount a Samba share to ~/Desktop? If doing so from fstab, would I go about it the same way as I would mount anything else?
[20:50] <lordcirth> kainengran, 'at' sends a message to 'atd' (the at daemon) and tells it to schedule "echo test" for 1 minute from now. As atd is not executing in your shell, it won't print there.
[20:50] <lordcirth> kainengran, depending on your config, it might mail you the result like cron does.
[20:51] <kainengran> I've tried running gimp with at, and I don't any result also...
[20:52] <lordcirth> kainengran, gimp is a graphical program, and must be called with the $DISPLAY variable set. Since atd isn't running in your desktop, you'd have to specify that yourself, I think
[20:52] <lordcirth> kainengran, if you want it to be echoed to your terminal, there are a few options. sh -c "sleep 2; echo test" & is one
[20:52] <lordcirth> er, sleep 1m , rather.
[20:54] <lordcirth> kainengran, is there a specific problem you want to solve, or are you just trying to learn things?
[20:55] <kainengran> lordcirth, trying to learn things. Thank you :) I thought atd get the DISPLAY as an environmental variable by default.
[20:56] <lordcirth> kainengran, no, $DISPLAY is inherited by anything called by X. atd is a system service that starts independently (and generally before) X.
[21:02] <kainengran> Hmmm... Yeah, I was stupid enough to think that the daemon should know the specific shell the at command was scheduled, so it should execute it there...
[21:04] <kainengran> makes me wonder if it's possible to specify a tty or a pty where a command should be run in linux
[21:05] <kainengran> I meant pts
[21:06] <kainengran> oh, it is possible simply by redirection!
[21:06]  * kainengran palmface
[21:09] <lordcirth> Many things are possible with redirection, since (almost) everything is a file
[21:12] <thnee> How come packages.ubuntu.com lists python3 as 3.6.5-3, but when I apt install python3, I get 3.6.8?
[21:12] <thnee> For bionic that is
[21:18] <OerHeks> thnee, it is backported 3.6.5-3 with 3.6.8 patches
[21:19] <OerHeks> err3.6.5 with 3.6.8 patches wich gives the ubuntu versioning 3.6.5-3
[21:31] <isopod> Hi
[21:31] <isopod> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 18.04 into a systemd-nspawn container using debootstrap, but I always get "Couldn't find these debs: systemd-container". What am I doing wrong?
[21:31] <isopod> sudo debootstrap --include=systemd-container,iproute2 --variant=minbase --arch=amd64 bionic gitlab http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[21:32] <isopod> (It worked with Debian)
[21:34] <thnee> OerHeks: wow ok, confusing.. thanks!
[21:35] <pragmaticenigma> isopod: well.. Ubuntu is not Debian, it is Ubuntu and there are significant configuration differences between the two. Also, I believe your question might be better suited for #ubuntu-server
[21:35] <thnee> OerHeks: So functionally it is like 3.6.5, right? And the backported patches are only for security? And it's just an accident that it says 3.6.8?
[21:36] <isopod> pragmaticenigma: True, but Ubuntu seems to have the same package: https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/systemd-container So why isn't it found?
[21:37] <OerHeks> not an accident, it is in code the 3.6.8, but as LTS gives stable packages + security updates, the versioning numbers are slightly different
[21:38] <pragmaticenigma> isopod: Because to install that package you have to have the Universe repository enabled
[21:38] <pragmaticenigma> !universe
[21:38] <thnee> OerHeks: I don't get it. Is it functionally like 3.6.5 or 3.6.8? Backporting security patches is of course fine, but functionally, which is it?
[21:38] <isopod> pragmaticenigma: Thanks, that sounds like the answer I was looking tor.
[21:38] <isopod> *for
[21:39] <OerHeks> thnee, functionality stays the same, i guess. no new features, those appear in the between-LTS versions
[21:41] <Forty-3> how do I view the old/new versions of packages before I upgrade?
[21:41] <pragmaticenigma> Forty-3: What are you trying to do exactly?
[21:41] <Forty-3> see if there are any change notes so I don't break anything
[21:42] <Forty-3> atm, it just says what packages would be upgraded
[21:42] <Forty-3> but I'd like to see that e.g. linux 4.10 will be upgrade to 4.14 or something
[21:42] <pragmaticenigma> Forty-3: Packages released in the official repositories are well tested before release. It is possible that a bug may slip through, but it is rare. There is no way to "view" differences, except to look at the release notes. The packages supplied are compiled binary, so unless you know how to read binary... you best bet to avoid issues is back your system up prior to installation/upgrades
[21:43] <OerHeks> apt changelog <package>
[21:43] <thnee> OerHeks: Ait, I'll take that. Thanks!
[21:43] <Forty-3> pragmaticenigma: I have been bitten too much by "stable" software breaking on upgrade
[21:44] <Forty-3> I've found point-release distros to be particularly egregious in this area
[21:44] <OerHeks> thnee, to make it easy: sudo apt update && apt list --upgradable  # to get a list of upgradable packages
[21:44] <pragmaticenigma> Forty-3: Sorry to hear that has been your experience, I can't say that I have ever had any issue within a release, only when moving major version/releases of the distribution I am on
[21:45] <Forty-3> anyway, I have several servers running on this machine, and I want to make sure they stay working
[21:45] <OerHeks> Forty-3,  use a test server and a vm?
[21:45] <pragmaticenigma> Forty-3: If you have introduced/installed any PPAs on your system, it is very likely they have been the source of your issues. As PPAs are not monitored, maintained, or tested by Canonical or Ubuntu developers
[21:45] <Forty-3> OerHeks: lotta server specific config
[21:46] <Forty-3> I'd rathe rjust see what versions are being changed
[21:46] <Forty-3> so I can do the research myself
[21:46] <Forty-3> arch does this fine when you update, and so does rhel...
[21:46] <pragmaticenigma> Forty-3: If your setup is that critical, then you should be running a mirrored machine to smoke test changes on. That's just good practice
[21:46] <OerHeks> oops, my previous post adressed wrong thnee > Forty-3 , to make it easy: sudo apt update && apt list --upgradable  # to get a list of upgradable packages
[21:47] <Forty-3> OerHeks: thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for
[21:47] <OerHeks> yw
[22:07] <TJ-> Forty-3: summary "apt list --upgradable" then, for each package, "apt changelog <package>"
[22:07] <thy143> HI, I hoping someone can clear something up for me regarding patching Ubuntu 1804 servers. We have a number of servers deployed using the server image (not the live one). I have done a apt-get upgrade, however I am still on 4.15.0-45-generic.  I have deployed anther VM using the “live” server install media and that is upgrading its kernel. Is someo
[22:07] <thy143> ne able to let me know why I not getting security patches on the 1804 (non live installers) server? Thanks
[22:07] <TJ-> oh, OerHeks  beat me!
[22:08] <TJ-> thy143: ISOs contains latest point releases, which will include the latest HWE kernels
[22:08] <TJ-> thy143: so I'm guessing you're seeing linux 4.18 or 5.0 on the latest 18.04.X ISO ?
[22:10] <sarnold> thy143: can you pastebin the output of your apt update && apt upgrade command?
[22:10] <Bashing-om> thy143: Latest kernel for the 18.04.1 cycle: "sysop@x1804mini:~$ uname -r >> 4.15.0-54-generic" .
[22:11] <thy143> TJ- uname-a  returns ubuntu 4.15.0-45 ....    i have been asked to verify that we have the CVE-2019-11477 kernal patch installed which is version 4.15.0-52.56
[22:12] <ryuo> thy143: did you try dist-upgrade?
[22:13] <ryuo> thy143: one possibility is you're lacking a generic kernel package that tracks the latest one.
[22:13] <TJ-> thy143:  4.15.0-45-generic is on the installed servers? is the bionic-security/bionic-updates components in apt sources.list enabled?
[22:13] <TJ-> thy143: as ryuo  says, is "linux-image-generic" installed to ensure upgrades are pulled in?
[22:13] <ryuo> or another form of it.
[22:15] <thy143> Ok i think that might be it.  had anther look and apt-get upgrade is kept back "linux-generic, linux-headers-generic and linux-images-generic
[22:15] <thy143> This is on clean install (VM) using the ISO here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/18.04.2/release/
[22:15] <ryuo> thy143: try dist-upgrade then.
[22:16] <wr> rm: cannot remove '/snap/core18/1055/var/lib/ucf/registry': Read-only file system, how can i remove /snap?
[22:16] <ryuo> afaik that always updates everything.
[22:16] <TJ-> thy143: "apt full-upgrade"
[22:16] <ryuo> or that. it's an alias for dist-upgrade.
[22:16] <thy143> ryuo TJ- that advisiable on a server in production?
[22:16] <ryuo> thy143: no idea, but i've always used it without incident.
[22:17] <ryuo> you can always review what it wants to do before approving it.
[22:17] <TJ-> thy143: if linux-generic is installed those packages should be pulled in as dependencies by default. If they're not someone has mis-configured the servers
[22:17] <sarnold> wr: it's on a read-only filesystem. if you want that file gone, you'll have to remove that snap to do it.
[22:18] <thy143> everything clean install, (clean VM installed 30 mins ago). no edits done on any config
[22:18] <ryuo> thy143: ok... try what we advised to at least see what it does. only difference from upgrade is what upgrades will be chosen.
[22:18] <wr> sarnold, already did a snap remove, is that it?
[22:19] <sarnold> wr: probably, yes
[22:19] <wr> sarnold, so probably not, because folder is there
[22:19] <TJ-> !info unattended-uprgades | thy143: you also might want to consider
[22:19] <TJ-> lol
[22:19] <TJ-> !info unattended-upgrades | thy143: you also might want to consider
[22:20] <ryuo> interesting.
[22:20] <ryuo> "full-upgrade performs the function of upgrade but will remove currently installed packages if this is needed to upgrade the system as a whole."
[22:20] <ryuo> so that's why it sometimes keeps stuff back.
[22:20] <sarnold> wr: if snap list shows nothing but mount shows /snap/core18/1055/ is still there, I suggest hopping into #snapcraft and asking about it
[22:21] <TJ-> ryuo: basically ABI changes require a "apt-get dist-upgrade" / "apt full-upgrade"
[22:21] <ryuo> i see.
[22:22] <wr> sarnold, go it now, had to do one more remove on core18
[22:23] <sarnold> wr: aha, all good?
[22:23] <wr> sarnold, yes, this snap installs things on file system hmmm
[22:23] <thy143> ok a apt full-upgrade looks to do the same as apt install linux-image-generic.   Will i keep running into the kernal not upgrading when doing a apt-get upgrade or should it role with the new one now?
[22:24] <TJ-> thy143: for kernel upgrades a reboot (or kexec) is required
[22:24] <TJ-> !livepatch | thy143
[22:25] <wr> sarnold, using snap on debian based machine can cause any conflicts?
[22:26] <sarnold> wr: it should work fine; I'm not sure the confinement on debian is as extensive as on ubuntu, but the debian-supplied packages and the snap-supplied packages shouldn't stomp on each other or anything
[22:27] <thy143> i get i need a reboot. WE rather not have livepatch as we need a control inpalce when updates get pushed.
[22:43] <wr> sarnold, if ubuntu has apt what snap adds?
[22:43] <jeremy31> !snap | wr
[22:44] <sarnold> wr: snaps are more like the apple app store or google play store -- you may or may not have source, there may or may not be security support, and there's some sandboxing in place to restrict what can and can't be done
[22:45] <sarnold> wr: the main benefit is that you don't have to run anything from them as root
[22:45] <wr> sarnold, i was thinking on that a contained app
[22:45] <sarnold> wr: the atomic updates are nice too; a surprising number of .deb packages fail to upgrade for reasons that are usually difficult to discorver
[22:54] <Jan-> hihi
[22:55] <Jan-> is there some way I can write a simple script to send bytes to a serial device? right now I have "echo -n 1 > /dev/ttyUSB0"
[22:55] <Jan-> what I want is for it to go 1,2,3,4 in sequence every few milliseconds
[23:01] <tomreyn> terminal window #1: touch /tmp/foo && tail -f /tmp/foo     terminal window #2:  (echo 1; sleep 0.3; echo 2;) >> /tmp/foo
[23:01] <wr> Jan-, #programming might be good
[23:02] <tomreyn> Jan-: but you reall should write this in a proper scripting language
[23:02] <sarnold> Jan-: untested, but try this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9gkcxWbb9h/
[23:04] <Jan-> OK thanks guys
[23:04] <Jan-> I shall maybe try python :)
[23:04]  * Jan- is not a linux persn
[23:09] <TJ-> hehehe this is like the programming challenge!  DEV=/dev/ttyUSB0; while true; do for n in {1..4}; do echo $n >$DEV; sleep 0.2; done; done
[23:09] <sarnold> I skipped that one because sleep isn't a shell built-in; it's a whole new exec every time through the loop
[23:10] <MMYStic> hi, I have a strange problem with bandwidth limitation. I mean the wifi is slow. I have cleaned any "tc" (traffic shaping cli) configuration. But I haven't resolved. What further conf should I seek to solve the problem ? sysctl ? others ?
[23:10] <TJ-> sarnold: right, and we need to waste time anyhow :)
[23:10] <sarnold> *maybe* it's even a fresh open and close each trip. that'd also be needlessly expensive :)
[23:11] <wr> MMYStic, see dns
[23:11] <MMYStic> wr: dns ? why ? how ?
[23:11] <wr> MMYStic, said wifi was slow
[23:12] <sarnold> MMYStic: it'd be best to figure out what exactly i slow about it
[23:12] <MMYStic> wr I've done a speedtest and I have 1mbit bandwidth, but the wifi has 25..
[23:12] <wr> MMYStic, what do you use for speedtest?
[23:12] <MMYStic> sarnold: just the bandwidth.. it seems there is some traffic shaping configuration
[23:13] <TJ-> sarnold: but if you don't want an exec, then DEV=/dev/ttyUSB0; while true; do for n in {1..4}; do echo $n >$DEV; read -t 0.2; done; done
[23:13] <MMYStic> wr I have used speedtest-cli installed with apt and the speedtest site
[23:13] <sarnold> TJ-: well played! :)
[23:13] <TJ-> sarnold: :P
[23:13] <sarnold> TJ-: I didn't know read had a timeout
[23:13] <sarnold> MMYStic: try this fq_codel https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/HOWTO/
[23:14] <wr> MMYStic, try other speedtest to see if any thing changes significantly
[23:14] <TJ-> MMYStic: start off with basics: signal strength, errors, retries (use "iwconfig")
[23:14] <wr> MMYStic, do you have good values on hardware and signal of wifi?
[23:15] <MMYStic> wr: yeah the signal is ok..
[23:15] <MMYStic> then I have to debug the wifi.. ok I try
[23:17] <wr> MMYStic, do you have bandwith limitation outside wifi? cable?
[23:17] <TJ-> MMYStic: which band is it using, which protocol? 2.4/5.x, 802.11bgn, 802.11an, 802.11ac ?
[23:18] <TJ-> MMYStic: how many other Access Points using the same band, what channel widths are they using, are they overlapping?
[23:18] <wr> MMYStic, try to scan to see if your using channels that don't overlap your area
[23:18] <MMYStic> wr: I think no.. .. well maybe I've found something... I have the following strange conf on iwconfig
[23:18] <MMYStic> Bit Rate=1 Mb/s   Tx-Power=20 dBm
[23:19] <wr> MMYStic, do you have any setting on card to limit something?
[23:19] <TJ-> MMYStic: best to show us in a pastebin the entire output: "pastebinit <( iwconfig )"
[23:21] <wr> MMYStic, 20 dBm not very good
[23:21] <MMYStic> https://pastebin.com/pLwDZQcz
[23:22] <wr> MMYStic, how is your pinging and dns settings?
[23:22] <veegee> What's going on with the latest kernel builds failing? https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.2.1/
[23:23] <TJ-> MMYStic: wr: 20dBm is OK, its probably the regulatory domain setting
[23:23] <MMYStic> the ping to the gw is around 7 ms
[23:23] <TJ-> MMYStic: show us "pastebinit <( iw list )"
[23:23] <wr> TJ-, it's tx-power thought was signal level
[23:25] <TJ-> MMYStic: before I've seen this next log, I'm going to guess there are other APs interfering. show us "pastebinit <( sudo iwlist scan )"
[23:27] <MMYStic> TJ-: what should I seek on iwlist scan output ?
[23:28] <TJ-> MMYStic: we're looking for all the APs and what there channel config/bandwidth is
[23:28] <wr> MMYStic, i guess cell's that are on you same you
[23:30] <TJ-> MMYStic: you're in the 802.11b band, max 20MHz channels is 14 (Japan) or 11 (USA) or 13 (Europe). Of those only 3 are non-overlapping (1, 6, 11/13/14) - if some AP is using 802.11n that's 40MHz channels and suddenly only channels 1 and 11/13/14 are non-overlapping
[23:31] <wr> MMYStic, 802.11b is bit low
[23:32] <MMYStic> wr also "encryption off" ???
[23:33] <wr> MMYStic, i would not use it open
[23:33] <MMYStic> wr: ofcourse the wifi has encryption on ... then it's very strange linux says is off
[23:33] <TJ-> MMYStic: if you don't show us those other two reports we can't really help
[23:34] <MMYStic> TJ-: I prefer not to publish the other conf because of privacy
[23:34] <wr> MMYStic, by the way can you reboot the device?
[23:35] <MMYStic> wr: no the router is ok... I think the problem is my laptop
[23:35] <wr> MMYStic, reboot not poweroff
[23:35] <MMYStic> wr: it's not mine
[23:35] <wr> MMYStic, even so, do it
[23:35] <wr> on both
[23:35] <MMYStic> wr: I can't the router is not mine
[23:36] <MMYStic> anyway thx I quit irc.. and I try to play with iwconfig
[23:36] <TJ-> MMYStic: iwconfig's Encryption key: is for WEP, it is expected to be 'off' for WPA/2
[23:37] <TJ-> ahh well, ask for advice then don't provide info required to give it!
[23:38] <wr> router not mine, hmmm
[23:44] <TJ-> almost always those issues are either radio-frequency interference, or simple congestion (and possibly control)
[23:49] <Rochvellon> I've got a problem. there is somewhere a trigger in my system (desktop, xfce, 16.04) that let crackle my audio periodically and if xfce4-volumed is active the osd volume appears then. what could it be?  this behaviour appeared the first time as I pressed the volume up or down on my old keyboard but it happens with my new keyboard too
[23:57] <FreeBDSM> hello, is this actual for Ubuntu too? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA#DRM_kernel_mode_setting


[01:51] <_aD> Where would be the appropriate place to report a possible security issue with the Ubuntu wiki?
[01:51] <_aD> I seem to have gotten lost in a maze of contact us pages, wiki security bug reporting and community posts, and can't find a sensible-looking GPG key for security@ubuntu.com


[01:29] <non> Does qapt-deb-installer have any logs?
[01:31] <non> other than the dpkg itself
[01:46] <oerheks> !info qapt-deb
[01:46] <oerheks> w2eird apt package.
[01:46] <oerheks> have fun with that
 5y8m
 BRKZ
 hi there
 i'm using vless on qv2ray in kubuntu 22.10
 after upgrade from 22.04 qv2ray not tunneling whole system and system proxy also configured by qv2ray after connected
 how can tunnel whole system by this proxy?
[13:20] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:09] <non> Despite being GPL-3 why was lutris packaged under multiverse instead of universe?
[20:29] <R13ose> 20.10 - I'm trying to figure out what my touchpad map is as in what areas are right click, left click and middle click.  How do I see that?
[20:29] <R13ose> Sorry 22.10
[20:40] <mmikowski> R13ose: System Settings > Input Devices > Touchpad should do the trick.
[20:43] <R13ose> I'm more looking for an actually map.
 Anyone can help me? (re @Naeemabadi6985: hi there
 i'm using vless on qv2ray in kubuntu 22.10
 after upgrade from 22.04 qv2ray not tunneling whole system and system proxy also configured by qv2ray after connected
 how can tunnel whole system by this proxy?)
[21:00] <mmikowski> R13ose: Sorry, I thought you were referring to single-tap=left click, double-tap=right click, etc.
 We can't support anything from outside the Ubuntu repositories. Sorry! (re @Naeemabadi6985: hi there
 i'm using vless on qv2ray in kubuntu 22.10
 after upgrade from 22.04 qv2ray not tunneling whole system and system proxy also configured by qv2ray after connected
 how can tunnel whole system by this proxy?)
[21:02] <tomreyn> ^ spam :-P
[21:03] <Eickmeyer> tomreyn: Not spam, was a reply that IrcsomeBot doesn't interpret well.
[21:04] <R13ose> mmikowski: talking about all clicks in what the touchpad is mapped at.
[21:04] <tomreyn> Eickmeyer: i'm joking, i know you never would, it's just the bridge is... not great
[21:04] <Eickmeyer> There's better bridges, for sure.
[21:06] <mmikowski> R13ose: Hi, yeah, I was looking around, but I don't have a good recommendation off hand. It's not made easier by X11 vs. Wayland and libinput, libevdev, synaptics.
[21:07] <mmikowski> If you get a good answer, please share as I'd love to add that to my knowledge base.
[21:49] <R13ose> mmikowski: thanks.  I will make sure you know if any answer comes up.
[21:54] <mmikowski> Thanks r13rose! I'dl like to add to here (https://kfocus.org/wf/mousecfg.html).
[21:54] <mmikowski> R13ose: fwiw, that might be useful in other ways for you. Thanks!
[21:58] <R13ose> Thanks
[21:59] <mmikowski> yw. best wishes.


[13:16] <jrwren> welp, this is weird, now my ssh stayed open even when outputting. I wonder if it is the macos "Low Power Mode".
[13:21] <cmaloney> Heh


[01:54] <mikodo> Can feature requests be made here
[02:10] <mikodo> I would like to see Mir be developed with it's own feature of inversing the color display. (Independant of X or Xmir with "Xcalib" or by using compositors like Compiz and Kwin).
[02:16] <cyphermox> @pilot out
[02:18] <cyphermox> mikodo: you might want to ask that in #ubuntu-mir; but if you know exactly what needs to be done and can develop the patches yourself, it's likely it would get done faster :)
[02:19] <mikodo> cyphermox, Thanks, no I can't do it. I will ask there.
[02:19] <cyphermox> np
[08:43] <LocutusOfBorg1> good morning developerz :)
[09:05] <rbasak> bdmurray: is ~ubuntu-reviewers actually active? I've never seen anything come out of an automatic bug subscription. Are we setting false expectations with the automatic comment?
[09:18] <sil2100> didrocks: hey! :) Could I use your archive admin powers and ask for removal of 2 packages from 14.09-proposed in ubuntu-rtm?
[09:18] <sil2100> didrocks: they're part of an invalid transition that we need to re-do
[09:18] <didrocks> sil2100: hum, I can try, but I'm unsure how this work for ubuntu-rtm
[09:19] <sil2100> didrocks: ubuntu-system-settings and upower
[09:19] <sil2100> didrocks: thanks o/
[09:20] <didrocks> sil2100: why don't you push new packages with new versions rather?
[09:20] <sil2100> didrocks: that's the plan, but in the meantime I don't want those to cause chaos in other packages building against -proposed
[09:21] <didrocks> sil2100: do you know the suite name for ubuntu-rtm?
[09:22] <sil2100> didrocks: suite name?
[09:22] <sil2100> didrocks: the distro is ubuntu-rtm and series 14.09, not sure about the other names
[09:23] <didrocks> sil2100: 14.09 is -proposed?
[09:24] <didrocks> hum, no, there is a 14.09-proposed apparently
[09:24] <sil2100> didrocks: there's 14.09-proposed as well
[09:24] <didrocks> sil2100: fine with you? http://paste.ubuntu.com/9439167/
[09:25]  * sil2100 looks at the list while sweating
[09:25] <willcooke> cking, howdy!  Do you know about BGRT?
[09:25] <sil2100> didrocks: I think yes :)
[09:25]  * didrocks flushes
[09:26] <didrocks> sil2100: done
[09:26] <cking> willcooke, the ACPI table for logos?
[09:26] <willcooke> cking, AIUI, yes
[09:26] <willcooke> cking, do you know if Grub(?) can support getting it and displaying it during boot?
[09:27] <sil2100> didrocks: thanks again!
[09:27] <cking> willcooke, afraid I don't know about that
[09:27] <willcooke> cking, no worries.
[09:28] <didrocks> sil2100: yw ;)
[09:28] <cking> willcooke, maybe worth asking the grub mailing list
[09:28] <willcooke> cking, plan - thx
[09:30] <mlankhorst> infinity: I've uploaded the pre-requisites, bug 1400626
[09:46] <sil2100> pitti: ping o/
[09:49] <seb128> sil2100, he's one of the people travelling that might not be on IRC, maybe better to give some context/others might be able to help you?
[09:49] <seb128> willcooke, cjwatson might know about that
[09:50] <cjwatson> pitti: Yes, I did the systemd integration for openssh.  Please see the end of README.Debian, which explains various caveats with it.
[09:54] <cjwatson> seb128,willcooke: GRUB knows how to parse ACPI tables for things like figuring out how to shut down properly, but as far as I know it doesn't use it for anything graphical.  You'd have to ask upstream.
[09:55] <cjwatson> seb128,willcooke: I mean, if you want anything implemented.  Upstream will also tell you that the answer to the question you actually asked is no :-)
[09:55] <rbasak> Do I need do declare Depends on packages that have Priority: required? Eg. passwd.
[09:55] <cjwatson> rbasak: Yes.  You may only omit dependencies on packages that are Essential: yes.
[09:55] <rbasak> I don't see anything relevant in policy. I get the feeling there's something that says I don't need to do it, but I don't see where.
[09:56] <rbasak> Aha. Thanks :)
[09:56] <cjwatson> Nothing tells you that you may omit them, therefore you must include them. :-)
[09:56] <rbasak> :)
[09:56] <willcooke> cjwatson, thanks
[09:56] <cjwatson> But people get confused because a lot of required packages are essential.  (Counterexample: libc6.)
[09:57] <cjwatson> Obviously libc6 is transitively essential, but it's not Essential: yes in its own right.
[09:58] <seb128> cjwatson, thanks
[10:10] <seb128> hallyn, hey, why are cgmanager systemd job disabled by default?
[10:29] <seb128> cjwatson, do you know what set up the console keyboard layout? it looks like console-setup used to ship an upstart job to do that but that it doesn't do it anymore, what that replaced by something else?
[10:30] <ogra_> there is a hool in the initrd as well ... in case you have fs encryption it is executed
[10:30] <ogra_> *hook
[10:31] <seb128> ogra_, context is that my test laptop has the correct keymap when init is upstart but not when init is systemd, trying to figure out why
[10:31] <ogra_> ah
[10:31] <seb128> /etc/default/keyboard has the correct "fr" config
[10:37] <cjwatson> seb128: It has to be done before plymouth starts, so the way it works is that there's an initramfs script that does it if it can, and otherwise /etc/init.d/console-setup should take care of it if plymouth isn't running.
[10:37] <cjwatson> seb128: My guess would be that systemd is doing some keyboard handling itself and needs to be adjusted to match up, but I haven't looked.
[10:39] <seb128> cjwatson, k, thanks, I'm going to have a look to console-setup
[10:39] <seb128> cjwatson, systemd is built without vconsole which is the job that handle that
[10:40] <seb128> one #debian-systemd comment suggests that console-common does the config on a Debian systems
[10:40] <ogra_> seb128, i *think* the real thing is not handled by upstart but by udev
[10:40] <seb128> ogra_, udev doesn't change depending of what is pid1 though...
[10:40] <alexbligh1> https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2014-8106 was I think previously restricted but is now in the open. Reasonably serious qemu vulnerability. I can't find an equivalent LP bug. Would it be appropriate to open one or is there likely a restricted one that I can't see? It's a one line fix.
[10:40] <seb128> but could be that something in systemd override the value
[10:40] <seb128> though that should be vconsole which is disabled
[10:41] <cjwatson> ogra_: No, that's the font.
[10:41] <cjwatson> seb128: Well, yeah, it's probably some other similar component in Debian but that shouldn't matter ...
[10:41] <cjwatson> seb128: Maybe check "systemctl status console-setup"?
[10:45] <seb128> cjwatson, that job is loaded/activated with status=0/SUCCESS
[10:46] <cjwatson> seb128: Maybe stick strace -f in there and see what it actually ends up doing ... naturally this stuff is an utter pain to debug
[10:48] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I'm available now, it seems you want to enable this keyboard thing yourself? (I'm happy to, I'll finish/upload xdiagnose then)
[10:48] <flexiondotorg> How do I go about merging the Ubuntu MATE seeds to the official location?
[10:49] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Can you point me in the right direction?
[10:52] <seb128> cjwatson, ok, I'm going to have a look to that, thanks for the hint
[10:53] <seb128> didrocks, yeah, I started looking at it, doesn't seem really systemd itself
[10:53] <seb128> but lunch first, then back to that
[10:54] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: No, sorry.
[10:54] <cjwatson> Hopefully somebody else can help.
[10:54] <didrocks> seb128: enjoy!
[10:55] <flexiondotorg> Got a name I can contact? I realise your role has changed.
[10:55] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: No, but this is the right channel to ask.
[10:55] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: I'd advise starting by being more specific.
[10:57] <rbasak> Is there any mounted tmpfs on a buildd that I can rely on to be present for faster tests during the mysql build?
[10:57] <rbasak> It'd be too hacky to use /dev/shm I presume?
[11:09] <mitya57> sil2100: hi, have you seen my three appmenu-qt5 fixes? Please review them, as I am also going to submit two more :)
[11:10] <mitya57> (two more will be new features, rather than fixes, and that will be later, maybe next week)
[12:09] <flexiondotorg> dholbach, Are you available for a quick chat via PM?
[13:12] <dholbach> flexiondotorg, sure
[13:16] <dholbach> hey seb128, who could take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicators-gtk2/indicator-application-gtk2/+merge/244116 and https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicators-gtk2/indicator-sound-gtk2/+merge/244120?
[13:17] <seb128> dholbach, not sure, anyone in the xubuntu or mate teams I guess?
[13:17] <seb128> ochosi might know who to recommend
[13:17] <dholbach> ah... so it's them who maintain indicators-gtk2?
[13:18] <seb128> dholbach, well, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application-gtk2/+changelog
[13:18] <seb128> dholbach, basically it's for xubuntu/lubuntu and it seems mate
[13:18] <seb128> dholbach, the sound one is fine to upload
[13:18] <seb128> the indicator-application one looks fine to me as well
[13:18] <dholbach> mr_pouit, ^ are you fine with me uploading them?
[13:19] <seb128> in fact maybe not
[13:19] <ochosi> right, well actually in xubuntu we don't use the gtk2 indicators anymore
[13:19] <ochosi> we use gtk3 since 14.04
[13:19] <seb128> great
[13:20] <seb128> dholbach, I'm unsure about the indicator-application one
[13:20] <ochosi> so i don't think any of our devs would really want to maintain that
[13:20] <dholbach> seb128, why unsure?
[13:20] <seb128> dholbach, because I wonder if having the dbus activation put it back could lead to have the gtk2 service loading under e.g unity when you don't want it, because it uses the same name on the bus
[13:21] <seb128> ideally the service would be renamed
[13:21] <seb128> let me comment on the mp to ask about that
[13:21] <seb128> dholbach, the other one is fine to upload
[13:22] <dholbach> flexiondotorg, ^
[13:23] <flexiondotorg> dholbach, Thanks.
[13:24] <flexiondotorg> seb128, The indicator-application-gtk2 has been tested. There are no conflicts.
[13:24] <Unit193> dholbach, seb128: Xubuntu uses GTK3 indicators.
[13:24] <Unit193> Oh, dowh.
[13:25] <seb128> flexiondotorg, how tested? are you sure it's never ever going to start under e.g xfce or unity?
[13:25] <flexiondotorg> seb128, Yes. See the reference bug reports. It was tested with MATE installed over Xubuntu.
[13:26] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application-gtk2/+bug/1319352
[13:27] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application-gtk2/+bug/1319352/comments/10
[13:28] <flexiondotorg> seb128, Also see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound-gtk2/+bug/1208204
[13:29] <flexiondotorg> seb128, That patch made the Gtk2 indicator use a different DBus name, so that the indicator-sound-service from this package is loaded instead of the Gtk3 one which is incompatible.
[13:29] <seb128> flexiondotorg, what patch makes it use a different dbus name?
[13:29] <seb128> flexiondotorg, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicators-gtk2/indicator-application-gtk2/+merge/244116 doesn't for sure
[13:44] <flexiondotorg> seb128, indicator-application-gtk2 (which the changes I've proposed) has been tested on Xubuntu which which use GTK3 indicators. No conflicts were encountered,
[13:45] <seb128> flexiondotorg, how do you define conflict? if indicator-application-gtk3 is not installed and some client try to use the dbus name it's not going to activate the gtk2 version?
[13:45] <flexiondotorg> I'll install stock Ubuntu and Xubuntu and install my patched version of indicator-application-gtk2 and indicator-sound-gtk2 on both to be double sure.
[13:47] <seb128> flexiondotorg, thanks, but as said the case might be more "if indicators are not running and something call to the dbus name"
[13:47] <seb128> but I guess it's a corner case
[13:47] <seb128> in any case I was just pointing it out as a potential issue, feel free to upload as it is as far as I'm concerned
[13:47] <flexiondotorg> seb128, I understand your concern. I'll test it now.
[13:48] <seb128> thanks
[13:48] <flexiondotorg> seb128, I don't have upload rights.
[13:48] <flexiondotorg> dholbach is my sponsor.
[13:48] <seb128> flexiondotorg, well, "you" being your sponsor then
[13:51] <flexiondotorg> dholbach, ^^^^
[13:52] <dholbach> flexiondotorg, "sponsor" means somebody who uploads packages for you
[13:52] <dholbach> I'd really like to keep sponsorship "free for all"
[13:53] <dholbach> that's why we have this approach where folks who need patches or packages uploaded can subscribe a team to bug reports, so a number of folks can go and help out
[13:53] <dholbach> and things don't get blocked on a single person
[13:53] <dholbach> but yes, I (as many others) am happy to help out :)
[14:25] <sil2100> mitya57: thanks! :) Will look into those tomorrow probably
[14:25] <sil2100> mitya57: today I'm trying to have a take on a bigger package transition in ubuntu-rtm
[14:26] <sil2100> So I won't have time for this probably
[14:48] <caribou> I have a question regarding bug #1387594
[14:48] <caribou> this bug is critical only if the package is rebuilt; the libnss-ldap packages in Utopic and Trusty do work atm
[14:49] <caribou> but they will fail if it is rebuilt against the current source. Is it possible to upload a fixed source only to the archive ?
[14:50] <xnox> caribou: no, in launchpad we have a strict sources->binaries 1:1 relationship.
[14:51] <xnox> caribou: well, you can upload a source which forces a FTBFS if it detects that the built binary has particular problem.
[14:51] <caribou> xnox: well, not at the moment, as the binary for libnss-ldap for Utopic and Trusty have not been rebuilt since 2012
[14:51] <xnox> caribou: it seems that fixing that bug is important.
[14:51] <xnox> caribou: what do you mean "not at the moment"?
[14:52] <caribou> xnox: rebuilding libnss-ldap for Utopic and Trusty will make it fail. The version in the archive works
[14:52] <xnox> caribou: each new release forks the previous one, but it's a matching set of binaries for each source, as they were built at the initial upload.
[14:53] <xnox> caribou: given that ppc64el binaries were built much later, I presume that bug is in the archive for ppc64el and arm64.
[14:53] <xnox> caribou: because those binaries where built much later than regular i386/amd64/etc.
[14:54] <caribou> xnox: nope; look at the [TEST] section of the SRU template for that bug
[14:54] <caribou> xnox: I understand that it should not be the case, but it is
[14:54] <xnox> caribou: can you explain what you believe is currently the case?
[14:54]  * xnox sees no inconsistencies at the moment.
[14:55] <xnox> there may ever be a single binary for a given source package on one arch, through the life-time of ubuntu. Thus amd64/i386 were built in 2012, ppc64el in 2014, etc.
[14:55] <caribou> xnox: the archive package has libnss_ldap-2.15.so and this version uses _pthread_mutex_lock symbol
[14:56] <xnox> the same i386 binary from 2012 is in preice, trusty, utopic, vivid etc.
[14:56] <caribou> xnox: rebuilding with the current source will bring libnss-ldap to libnss_ldap-2.19.so and this one uses __libc_lock_lock which is no longer in glibc
[14:57] <caribou> xnox: look at the SRU test case for the bug, I ran this a few minutes ago
[14:57] <xnox> ... yes, becuase in 2012 we used eglibc 2.15 and didn't rebuild libnss-ldap against eglibc 2.19, yet.
[14:58] <xnox> caribou: "Is it possible to upload a fixed source only to the archive ?" the answer is no.
[14:58] <xnox> caribou: the source upload, will rebuild and publish updated binaries.
[14:58] <xnox> in the SRU.
[14:59] <caribou> xnox: ok, I was just wondering if it was possible
[14:59] <caribou> xnox: I was just worried of unexpected regressions cause by such a rebuild
[15:00] <xnox> caribou: i'm not sure why you started talking about inconsistencies and pointing to the bug test case.... when my answer was only about your question alone.
[15:00] <caribou> xnox: because you talk about a 1:1 relationship b/w source & binary which is clearly _not_ the case in this situation
[15:01] <xnox> caribou: there should be no regressions as nothing directly links with libnss plugins, they are dlopened at runtime. Thus if a basic test $ getent passwd root works with libnss-ldap installed and configured
[15:01] <xnox> you should know that things works.
[15:01] <caribou> xnox: and the bug clearly shows that
[15:01] <xnox> caribou: there is a 1:1 relationship /in the archive/ between source .dsc & binary .deb.
[15:02] <xnox> caribou: it's not possible to publish a new .dsc / .deb with a different checksum for the same version number for the same arch.
[15:02] <caribou> xnox: ok, I see what you mean : archive != src pkg in LP; my mistake
[15:03] <xnox> caribou: yeah, one has to bump the version number (sru version number) which is a new source + new set of binaries that superseed the previous one.
[15:04] <xnox> caribou: you can experiment in a PPA e.g. generate two different packages with the same name and version number, only first one will be accepted.
[15:04] <caribou> xnox: I was wrong to assume that pulling the source from LP would give me the same source as what is in the archive
[15:04] <xnox> caribou: it does give you the same source...
[15:04] <caribou> xnox:s already
[15:05] <xnox> caribou: but to get the same binary you need a chroot from 2012 of the release used to build the original binary.
[15:05] <xnox> which subsequently was copied from one release to the next.
[15:05] <xnox> caribou: we do not rebuild all binaries when we open new series, we keep them.
[15:06] <cjwatson> xnox: that's a one-to-many relationship, not a one-to-one relationship :-)
[15:06] <xnox> look: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnss-ldap/264-2.2ubuntu4
[15:06] <cjwatson> </twitchy maths geek>
[15:06] <xnox> caribou: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnss-ldap/264-2.2ubuntu4 from here amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc were built on quantal to produce _i386.deb etc. and those are copied and were published in quantal, raring, saucy, trusty, utopic.
[15:07] <caribou> xnox: ok, I'm going to run a new set of tests just to be safer (even if I already did test each one)
[15:07] <xnox> caribou: arm64 deb was build in published in saucy and up.
[15:08] <xnox> caribou: ppc64el deb was build & published in trusty and up.
[15:08] <xnox> cjwatson: well, my defence is that i said 1:1 per arch, which is 1 to many.
[15:08] <xnox> caribou: now, you are claiming that identical source produces a differen tresult when built in trusty chroot.
[15:08] <xnox> caribou: that is correct because the comparison is with a binary build in quantal's chroot.
[15:10] <caribou> xnox: I'm not too bothered about what I claim, just about the fact that if, for some reason gets rebuilt, it will trigger segfaults & unbootable systems
[15:10] <xnox> caribou: cjwatson can tell you a story of unbootable ISOs with an icon changed from one picture to another.
[15:11] <xnox> caribou: i'm certain if you rebuild that source in quantal's chroot it will remain bootable without segfaults.
[15:11] <rbasak> Is there any mounted tmpfs on a buildd that I can rely on to be present for faster tests during the mysql build?
[15:11] <rbasak> It'd be too hacky to use /dev/shm I presume?
[15:11] <rbasak> We're wondering about /run
[15:12] <xnox> rbasak: is that for out of archive rebuilds, or the official builds for archive.ubuntu.com?
[15:12] <xnox> rbasak: tmpfs can cause miscompiles, thus should not be used for official builds.
[15:13] <cjwatson> xnox: It's still not one-to-one per arch, since one source produces one *or more* binaries per architecture.
[15:13] <xnox> cjwatson: true.
[15:14] <caribou> xnox: Am I correct to think that if some other SRU for this library comes in, libnss-ldap will not be rebuilt in a quantal's chroot but a more recent one ?
[15:14] <rbasak> xnox: it's for running a test suite quicker, both in official builds and developers test building locally
[15:14] <rbasak> xnox: I don't see why it'd cause any miscompiles. It's true use of a RAM-based filesystem for stuff that needs to use a filesystem quickly. No overlayfs or anything like that.
[15:15] <caribou> xnox: TL;DR : I don't want to break things that are not broken atm
[15:15] <cjwatson> caribou: I'd stop agonising about it and just release a build fix if I were you :-)
[15:15] <xnox> caribou: correct. it will be rebuild in the target's chroot and thus a harmless typo fix SRU will cause "crashes & segfaults"
[15:15] <caribou> cjwatson: :-D correct.
[15:15] <cjwatson> A package that can't be rebuilt safely is bad news
[15:16] <caribou> cjwatson: I know, that why slangasek asked me to mark the bug  critical & fix it
[15:16] <cjwatson> Right, so JFDI rather than worrying about all this :-)
[15:16] <cjwatson> You'll get rebuilt binaries, verify that they still work, mark bug accordingly, move on
[15:16] <caribou> cjwatson: oh, the SRU is done; just need a sponsor. I only had afterthoughts
[15:17] <cjwatson> ok :)
[15:17] <caribou> cjwatson: it'll be even worse when I get to upload it myself :-)
[15:17] <caribou> xnox: thanks for the clarifications; was good learning
[15:19] <bdmurray> pitti: Could you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/apport/check-contents-server-age/+merge/244071?
[15:19] <xnox> caribou: it would have been even scarier to "upload a fixed source only to the archive ?" cause then you add an extra hop of possible exploadadge which has not been sru verified, sru+2 will not have common/known previous version of neither source or binaries.
[15:19] <xnox> s/will not have/ would not have had/
[15:20] <caribou> xnox: yes, indeed
[15:20] <xnox> caribou: at lest with this fix, we can verify new binaries and either accept them as good, or fall back to known binaries - which we know are precious, since we can't rebuild them.
[15:21] <xnox> caribou: and they will be frozen / accessible if one forces installation from release pocket, without -updates/-proposed/-security enabled.
[15:21] <xnox> caribou: oh, and you do want this fix to be published in security pocket and copied into -updates probably.
[15:22] <xnox> jdstrand: could you sponsor bug #1387594 into -security? any no-change rebuild of that package will explode at runtime into glitter
[15:24] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sarnold: can one of you help xnox with ^
[15:25] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: sure
[15:25] <cjwatson> xnox: That's not necessary; the next -security upload, if any, will be based on what's in -updates.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation
[15:25] <xnox> cjwatson: i did not know that.
[15:25] <mdeslaur> xnox: yeah, we always rebase on -updates
[15:25]  * xnox though -updates are rebased on top of -security
[15:25] <cjwatson> xnox: That is also true.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Repositories
[15:25] <jdstrand> oh yeah, I didn't read that closely enough
[15:25] <mdeslaur> both ways :)
[15:26] <jdstrand> yeah, we're good already
[15:27] <xnox> caribou: right, so just need normal SRU into -updates.
[15:38] <mitya57> sil2100: no problem
[15:45] <roadmr> hello folks, anybody from the ~xorg-edgers team in here?
[15:47] <caribou> xnox: ok, thanks for checking
[15:48] <caribou> now anyone can sponsor :)
[16:34] <pitti> slangasek, mdeslaur, kees, infinity: hi! I try to attend the TB meeting today, but I'm at the snappy sprint so I might get pulled away on short notice
[16:34] <mdeslaur> pitti: ack!
[17:02] <pitti> kees, infinity, slangasek: TB meeting poke?
[17:17] <mitya57> sil2100: can I reuse LGPL code written by mgraesslin (KDE guy) in appmenu-qt5 code, or it is not possible because he hasn't signed the CLA?
[17:17]  * mitya57 wanted to steal QPlatformMenu{,Item} implementations from KDE
[17:22] <stm> Hi there. I have two problems I want to discuss with some experts about building Ubuntu packages on launchpad.
[17:23] <stm> It is especially about 64 bit packages.
[17:24] <stm> First thing is that most of the time the compiler hangs on the server  - maybe due to limited memory. I had the same problem with by virtulized Ubuntu.
[17:24] <stm> Ist there any "switch" to force launchpad to use a server with 2 GB memory?
[17:28] <teward> stm: "building Ubuntu packages on launchpad" with respect to PPAs, or the main repository builders?
[17:31] <stm> I have a PPA on launchpad.
[17:33] <stm> What do you mean by main repository builders? Though these are any way the same computers - just a pool for the Ubuntu distro and "private" projects.
[17:33] <teward> i meant the builders in the build farm (https://launchpad.net/builders)
[17:34] <teward> just clarifying so the true experts can know what you're specifically referring to :)
[17:34] <stm> Yes it is packed there - looks someone offers his private computer to do the packaging
[17:34] <stm> My problem is that compiling the projects needs a real big memory - also the final program is just 20 MB.
[17:35] <stm> Do not ask me why - I am just the package maintainer!
[17:35] <teward> stm: i might be willing to dump your stuff into sbuild locally after i update my chroots, and then dump the built binaries onto one of my servers so you can then download them and use them via manual dpkg install, but the ppa builders, I think, are identical and take time to compile large projects
[17:36] <stm> I tried to compile the program (gxsm.sf.net) on my virtual machine with 1 GB ram but did not succeed.
[17:36] <teward> (you'd also have to define 'hangs' in better detail, because 'hangs' is ambiguous)
[17:36] <teward> first, lunch.  *disappears for foods*
[17:43] <cjwatson> stm: All the virtualised build nodes used for PPAs on Launchpad have a uniform setup with 4GiB of RAM.
[17:43] <stm> \query cjwatson
[17:46] <stm> I figured out that there are certain differences while building a package on my computer and via launchpad.
[17:47] <cjwatson> stm: I'd need to see an example of the build that's hanging.  When you use debuild locally, though, you aren't working in a clean environment, so there could be any number of subtle differences.
[17:47] <cjwatson> sbuild is a much better test.
[17:47] <stm> One problem is also the path to the plugins being /usr/lib/gxsm-plugins on my computer and /usr/lib/x86-64-gnu/gxsm-plugins if compiled and packed on launchpad.
[17:48] <cjwatson> stm: You're building on a different Ubuntu release, then, I expect.
[17:48] <cjwatson> Launchpad is not doing anything special there itself.
[17:48] <cjwatson> I'm pretty confident you'd see the same thing in sbuild locally, if you pointed it at the correct Ubuntu release.
[17:48] <stm> I have Ubuntu 14.04 LTS running - 64 bit on a virtual machine
[17:48] <cjwatson> The fix is likely to pass an appropriate plugin directory to the upstream configure script.
[17:49] <cjwatson> (in debian/rules)
[17:49] <stm> The upstream configure sets it to /usr/share/gxsm-plugins for both i386 and AMD64.
[17:50] <cjwatson> /usr/lib/x86_64-gnu/ almost certainly comes from debhelper's standard behaviour of passing --libdir=${prefix}/lib/$(DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH) to configure.
[17:50] <cjwatson> You can and should override that.
[17:50] <stm> I did not want to maintain even different configure scripts.
[17:50] <cjwatson> (Possibly --libexecdir.)
[17:50] <cjwatson> You don't have to.
[17:50] <cjwatson> But you still haven't told us where to find the offending build ...
[17:51] <stm> Sorry - not as a quick writer than you: https://launchpad.net/~totto/+archive/ubuntu/gxsm/+build/6628573/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.gxsm_3.10.4-0ubuntu11_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:52] <cjwatson> That build appears to be failing with a compiler error, not hanging?
[17:53] <stm> It is not hanging with I386 and not an my computer!
[17:53] <cjwatson> But it's not a hang.
[17:53] <cjwatson> It's just failing to compile.
[17:54] <cjwatson> pyremote.C: In function 'PyObject* remote_move_delta_xyz(PyObject*, PyObject*)':
[17:54] <stm> I had this on my computer as the memory (1GB) was too low.
[17:54] <cjwatson> pyremote.C:766:23: error: 'class XSM_Hardware' has no member named 'Move_delta_XYZ'
[17:54] <cjwatson>   gapp->xsm->hardware->Move_delta_XYZ (dx, dy, dz, NULL);
[17:54] <cjwatson>                        ^
[17:54] <cjwatson> I do not believe that that is a problem with insufficient memory.
[17:56] <stm> The "search path" for the plugins is the in configure.ac as AC_DEFINE_UNQUOTED(PACKAGE_PLUGIN_DIR, "${ac_default_prefix}/lib/gxsm-plugins" or AC_DEFINE_UNQUOTED(PACKAGE_PLUGIN_DIR, "${prefix}/lib/gxsm-plugins", depending if "prefix" exists or not.
[17:57] <cjwatson> There are two definitions of "class XSM_Hardware" in this project, and only one of them has a "Move_delta_XYZ" member.
[17:57] <cjwatson> stm: debian/rules is constructed very strangely and really ought to be rewritten entirely or else you're going to get very confused in other ways.
[17:57] <stm> There is an abstract class XSM_hardware and the final implementation.
[17:58] <cjwatson> stm: Specifically it is extremely strange to use a %: dh $@ rule and then also manually write out clean, install, build, binary-indep, binary-arch.
[17:58] <cjwatson> And DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS should not be set there.
[17:59] <stm> I was happy to get it running any way. I know you can have the packaging just by a one line rule file but that did not work here.
[17:59] <cjwatson> Oh, and DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS is ineffective.  That comes from cdbs, which you are not using here.
[18:00] <cjwatson> None of this is a problem with Launchpad - you could reproduce the exact same problem with sbuild.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
[18:00] <cjwatson> I recommend investing time in setting that up
[18:00] <cjwatson> But let me see if I can give you a sketch of a better-constructed rules file
[18:01] <cjwatson> I see no evidence of the /usr/lib/$(DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH)/gsxm-plugins/ problem you mention in the working i386 build, by the way ...
[18:02] <cjwatson> Anyway, since this package doesn't install any libraries of its own, it's safe to override dh_auto_configure and pass --libdir; though the upstream should really be modified to use libexecdir for that.
[18:02] <stm> The sbuild looks a little like the pebuilder enviroment, doesn't it?
[18:02] <cjwatson> More or less, yes.
[18:03] <cjwatson> (You mean pbuilder, I think.)
[18:03] <stm> yes
[18:04] <cjwatson> The upstream configure.ac is inconsistent in other ways.  It defines PACKAGE_PLUGIN_DIR, but then defines plugindir differently.  It should be revised upstream.
[18:06] <stm> okay - guess that part was introduced 10 years ago. Certainly one would do better. Everyone is learning!
[18:09] <cjwatson> stm: I would start by reducing debian/rules to http://paste.ubuntu.com/9444836/, with an added Build-Depends on dh-autoreconf (in debian/control).
[18:09] <stm> see the point about the two definitions - thanks for pointing this out.
[18:10] <cjwatson> stm: And then it will be much easier to follow if you put an upstream tarball in the parent directory as gxsm_3.10.4.orig.tar.gz, so that the source package is constructed with all the packaging bits in a separate file.
[18:11] <cjwatson> stm: I see that you have a build rule that copies src to gxsm.  I suspect that what's happening here is that the conflict between your catch-all % rule and the manual "build" rule is resolved differently on amd64 vs. i386 - on trusty, i386 will go via "build" and all other architectures will go via "build-arch".  That's why you'll have a better time sticking to one syntax.
[18:11] <cjwatson> stm: So the effect of that is that you end up with a stale copy of src used for other architectures.
[18:12] <cjwatson> stm: You should make sure to clean up the gxsm directory at some point, if you need to do it that way at all (it's an odd way to do things, though occasionally necessary); in my rewritten rules file you'd use an override_dh_auto_clean rule to do that.
[18:13] <cjwatson> stm: (Oh, you do clean it up at the start of build, I see.  Still, I'd recommend doing that in clean instead.)
[18:17] <stm> @cjwatson - let me try that shortened rules files and have a look.
[18:17] <udevbot> Error: "cjwatson" is not a valid command.
[18:18] <stm> I will try tonight to modify - right now I have just a hand on a windows machine - need my laptop at home.
[18:19] <cjwatson> So to explain it a little differently, the conflict between two entirely different styles in debian/rules meant that, without realising it, you had one build rule which was run on i386 and one build rule which was run on all other architectures (for your PPA, that's just amd64).
[18:19] <cjwatson> And those two build rules had nothing in common ...
[18:21] <stm> see the problem now a little by more clear.
[18:21] <cjwatson> I haven't actually tested my rewritten file, of course :)
[18:22] <stm> Now problem - I will do that!
[18:22] <stm> You mind if I contact you again - for some progress report?
[18:23] <stm> I will have to go home now - I am for 12 h at the university and need urgently food and my girl friend.
[18:24] <stm> I have also the alias stm at sourceforge.net - so in case you have another briliant idea.
[18:24] <stm> But your input was already helping me to get a new view on may problem.
[18:25] <stm> So thank you very much, cj
[18:26] <cjwatson> stm: I don't mind, but in general I'm only around in UK working hours.
[18:26] <cjwatson> stm: No need to contact me if it works.
[18:26] <stm> Thanks and bye.
[20:09] <dannf> what's the appropriate list to discuss enabling 64K pages on arm64? ubuntu-devel-discuss?
 Are you stil online?
[20:47] <stm> Got it mostly working, but now it hangs during the install.
[20:47] <stm> 	cp -a debian/tmp/usr/bin/gxsm2 debian/gxsm//usr/bin/ cp: cannot stat ‘debian/tmp/usr/bin/gxsm2’: No such file or directory
[20:47] <stm> Guess the error is in the gxsm.install
[20:48] <stm> Here I have just the line "usr/bin/gxsm2"
[21:23] <TheNumb> o/
[21:29] <sarnold> doko: are you sure intel-microcode can go to main? it does include intel-provided binary blobs.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1388889
[22:21] <doko> sarnold, my mistake, now fixed
[22:21] <sarnold> doko: thanks
[22:50] <brainwash> pitti: will you package systemd 218 (once available) or will 15.04 ship with 217?
[22:51] <brainwash> I'm not sure if I should request to pick a commit from git
[22:52] <brainwash> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/src/libudev/libudev-hwdb.c?id=8232e39e7cf32071e11b3b04839e6c98fbc81d0f
[22:52] <brainwash> :)
[23:45] <shadeslayer> kirkland: do you know where I can get the source for the snappy tool?
[23:45] <shadeslayer> or maybe even design docs or whatever to get a idea of what magic is going on underneath
[23:46] <kirkland> shadeslayer: https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev
[23:47] <shadeslayer> cheers
[23:47] <kirkland> shadeslayer: snappy is built on click (the package system for the ubuntu phone)
[23:47] <shadeslayer> ah ok