[07:57] <mob1> Hello, is there a way to install latest cloud-init to ubuntu 14.04?
[07:57] <mob1> I could compile it but I couldn't find compilation guide from tar ball
[09:47] <mob1> I got this far on ubuntu LTS 14.04 https://pastebin.com/TJJ1a1jK
[09:57] <mob1> argparse was missing, fixed.
[14:45] <blackboxsw> mob1 we recently added a new make target which should pull in any system dependencies you may need to build and run cloud-init. Try 'make ci-deps-ubuntu'
[14:45] <blackboxsw> for next time :).  It'll get you everything you need.
[16:38] <blackboxsw> powersj: rharper so configuring a link-local 169.254.X.Y address on eth0 in aws ephemeral boot (init-local stage) can't wget http://<IP_ADDRESS>, but after a dhclient eth0 in that environment (getting me a 172.31.X.Y address I do get to access the metadata service.  I've tried dumping ethtool/ifconfig info in both cases and can't really determine yet why manually configured link local addresses don't get through to
[16:38] <blackboxsw> <IP_ADDRESS>. pastebins coming
[16:38] <blackboxsw> any logging I added is prefaced w/ Chad :/
[16:40] <blackboxsw> successful init-local ephemeral instance gets metadata service after  a dhclient eth0 request http://paste.ubuntu.com/25040315/
[16:42] <blackboxsw> unsuccessful init-local ephemeral instance setting static random link local 169.254.X.Y address on eth0 http://paste.ubuntu.com/25036317/
[16:42] <blackboxsw> I'm about to try a tcpdump -i on eth0 to see if the interface can actually see any traffic in link-local mode vs. dhclient
[16:43] <blackboxsw> if anyone has other tool suggestion besides ethtool, mii-tool, tcpdump, route  I should be looking at to triage network connectivity issues I'm all ears
[16:45] <blackboxsw> I also might try statically configuring the expected dhcp ip address & routes given to this instance to see generally if the instance can touch <IP_ADDRESS> when statically config'd (non link-local addr)
[18:14] <rharper> blackboxsw: it's certainly possible there needs some interaction with the cloud via DHCP to authorize/enable it
[18:14] <rharper> blackboxsw: in general, you can check for carrier which should be enough; but it's possible that there needs to be some forwarding or otherwise backend things that have to happen to allow off-instance networking
[18:48] <blackboxsw> powersj: rharper: ok so looks like in ephemeral environment on AWS I can also manually setup a static IP with the ip address and route I was given to the non-ephemeral instance when it booted and that ip gets ahold of the metadata service ip <IP_ADDRESS> without issue. so it doesn't necessarily look like I have to dhclient in the ephemeral environment in order to talk to the metadata service. But I do wonder if the
[18:48] <blackboxsw> initial dhclient from the non-ephemeral instance set something up, sec-group or firewall wise, for the metadata service to allow traffic from the the allocated dhcp ip.
[18:53] <blackboxsw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25040989/ shows static IP set to the 172..... IP addr and default gateway setup
[20:08] <blackboxsw> meh, I'm not liking how this sounds http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/using-instance-addressing.html#concepts-private-addresses
[20:15] <blackboxsw> It seems  I cannot manally configure a different private net address on the 172... network as I get the same timeouts. I also cannot seem to allocate a link-local address to the instance. I'm thinking the instance is tightly bound to the dhcp allocated ip address for aws but I can't confirm that in docs.
[20:15] <blackboxsw> The link above does say the folllowing about private ip addresses for EC2-Classic instances "We select a single private IP address for your instance; multiple IP addresses are not supported."
[20:16] <blackboxsw> rharper: why is it that we don't want to dhclient eth0 in init-local of cloud-init (speed?)
[20:16] <rharper> yeah, DHCP takes longer than ip up
[20:20] <rharper> also cleanup of lease files and other things
[20:20] <blackboxsw> hmm. If dhclient ends up being the only answer to obtain a "local" ipv6 configuration setup from the AWS metadata service,  I'm not quite sure at what stage we'd want to perform the dhclient on eth0
[20:21] <blackboxsw> hmm got a few mins for a hangout?
[20:27] <rharper> yeah, on one with dpb at the moment
[20:27] <blackboxsw> sounds good, saw a trello card moved over to me
[20:27] <blackboxsw> figured as much
[20:48] <rharper> blackboxsw: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/link-local?authuser=1


[04:39] <fljamurtari> hey guys
[04:40] <fljamurtari> do you seek help regarding kubuntu on askubuntu?
 Thenks :3
[09:39] <mparillo> For general questions some use askubuntu, For kubuntu-specific kubuntuforums.net or the KDE Forums if it is KDE-related
[10:49] <MiSix> Hi I'm looking for more help on a boot problem, Kubuntu, but today, my Mac is blocked from this chat...? DNS-sth..? I even registered at the. Forum and tried to login w a password w no luck.the recaprcha
[10:50] <MiSix> Keeps getting be back to the login page.. I've tried two different browsers, getting Firefox now. Also I can't search on the forum even though I'm logged in - says I don't have administration rights or something like that??
[10:55] <MiSix> Not admin; do not have permission to access this page... Now also in Firefox.  Please, help. What is wrong?
[10:58] <MiSix> In Firefox I could finish the recaptcha, but got a message I also received in the beginning: closing link: 91.132.177. 138 (***Banned) .
[11:05] <MiSix> The actual question: what can I do now? PC won't boot, did boot-repair w assistance here, sent the files to the Gmail provided, still won't boot. What's next for me? This morning instead of the 'hp' black screen, we got '[OK] Finished Terminate Plymouth Boot Screen'
[11:06] <diogenes_> MiSix, try boot MX-Linux and use boot repair.
[12:23] <MiSix> Trying to do boot repair via MX-Linux. Did I pick the wrong version? MX-19.4_ahs(patito feo)
[12:23] <MiSix> Boot rescue menue does not have boot repair
[12:24] <MiSix> And otherwise I'm concerned it gives no option to just use live boot
[12:25] <oerheks> why mx-linux... weird
[12:26] <MiSix> It was suggested here. I did via Ubuntu live with no effect
[12:26] <oerheks> MiSix, use the proper Kubuntu, boot in live mode, and install it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
[12:28] <oerheks> sudo apt update && sudo add-apt-repository ppa:yannubuntu/boot-repair && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install -y boot-repair && boot-repair
[12:28] <MiSix> Did it
[12:29] <MiSix> Didn't help
[12:32] <MiSix> So I asked what I can do next. And got the answer MX-Linux boot repair, live.
[12:33] <oerheks> good luck with that
[12:33] <MiSix> Ok but what do you suggest, then...?
[12:34] <oerheks> i know the bootrepair method works, with kubuntu .. don't care about weird linux versions
[12:34] <MiSix> I didn't hsll
[12:34] <oerheks> and maybe it is a mac issue ..  as you claimed it did work before
[12:34] <MiSix> Help. It said failed to this or that and I still can't boot...
[12:35] <MiSix> It's a pc that's on kubuntu
[12:35] <MiSix> I'm trying to get instructions and using the Mac to do the flash.
[12:35] <MiSix> It's so hard read on a mobile
[12:36] <MiSix> *the Ubuntu boot repair didnt help*
[12:36] <MiSix> Ups fat text...
[12:40] <MiSix> Anyone...?
[12:41] <alkisg> MiSix, can you upload a photo of the failure to boot?
[12:43] <MiSix> I'm in the MX-Linux boot menu now. But it freezes in 'hp' black screen. And this morning said [OK] Finished Terminate Plymouth...
[12:43] <MiSix> .. Boot Screen
[12:45] <alkisg> You don't have kubuntu?
[12:46] <alkisg> If kubuntu says "finished terminate plymouth", then it's not a grub/boot-repair issue
[12:46] <MiSix> Yes, Kubuntu. Ran LIVE-USB Ubuntu boot repair
[12:46] <alkisg> It could be a graphics issue, that's why I ask for a photo
[12:47] <MiSix> Right now in MX-Linux to do a boot repair from there. Found pic try upload now
[12:48] <alkisg> Upload a picture of the kubuntu boot failure, not from mx linux
[12:48] <MiSix> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/f54756bf98069497b4c4c65ebf2c5ba2/IMG_20210731_114639.jpg
[12:49] <alkisg> When it boots, do you see the grub menu? Can you press "e" there to edit entries?
[12:50] <alkisg> If so, try to locate and remove the "quiet splash" words, so that you see more error and progress messages
[12:50] <MiSix> Pic from after a night of rest. In the evening, after three live USB boot repairs all w a fail message the same old hp black screen as now
[12:51] <MiSix> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/c790204c9c07e33710b9202aacf4ae30/16277358446993889637830078459725.jpg
[12:52] <alkisg> So you don't see the grub menu anymore? E.g. you can't do this? https://askubuntu.com/questions/38780/how-do-i-set-nomodeset-after-ive-already-installed-ubuntu
[12:52] <MiSix> I see nothing before the 'hp'
[12:52] <alkisg> What about if you keep left shift pressed down?
[12:53] <alkisg> Btw was it working in the past, or that's your first installation attempt?
[12:53] <MiSix> Nothing. Same screen. F10gets me to bios
[12:54] <alkisg> Was it working in the past? What happened that broke it?
[12:55] <MiSix> It has been working for months. No updates or anything that my kid knows of. He shut it down correctly, in the morning it wouldn't start...
[12:56] <alkisg> OK so I would guess that security updates were installed and then you had kernel/graphics issues and now after boot-repair you completely destroyed the boot entries :D
[12:57] <alkisg> If you want help with screen sharing, boot with a live cd, and run: sudo apt install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect alkisg.ltsp.org
[12:57] <alkisg> Otherwise I would suggest that you reinstall as it sounds too broken for your skill level
[12:58] <MiSix> Order of things: HP screen freeze, boot repairs, hp screen freeze, night, Plymouth message screen. Now hp screen freeze again.
[12:59] <MiSix> I would love help. He's got his favorite game on there with progress he'll lose
[13:00] <MiSix> But I'll need to redo the live USB, cause it has MX on it now...
[13:00] <MiSix> Doing that now
[13:02] <alkisg> The live cd doesn't matter, it can be mx
[13:02] <MiSix> What do I do now...?
[13:03] <alkisg> Boot with any live cd and run: sudo apt install -y x11vnc; x11vnc -connect alkisg.ltsp.org
[13:04] <alkisg> This shares your screen with me
[13:04] <alkisg> Btw that's a mac?
[13:04] <alkisg> Or a normal pc?
[13:04] <MiSix> Pc
[13:04] <alkisg> OK
[13:06] <MiSix> Wait i also need to get internet hang on...
[13:09] <MiSix> Struggling to find the Bluetooth right now...
[13:10] <MiSix> Ok typing
[13:13] <MiSix> Unable to locate package x11vnc
[13:13] <oerheks> on a live iso; sudo apt update # to get lists
[13:13] <alkisg> sudo add-apt-repository universe
[13:13] <alkisg> Then try again
[13:13] <MiSix> No internet... Wait
[13:14] <oerheks> then the command... maybe this is the problem with your attempt with bootrepair too...
[13:14] <oerheks> sudo apt update && sudo add-apt-repository ppa:yannubuntu/boot-repair && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install -y boot-repair && boot-repair
[13:15] <MiSix> Yesterday I got internet connection via Bluetooth and could get the files etc. Now it just says error all the way..
[13:16] <alkisg> Try to use usb tethering
[13:16] <alkisg> *from your phone
[13:17] <alkisg> (if you don't have wired lan)
[13:17] <Mekaneck> heh? Bluetooth doesn't provide a internet connection afaik or am i mistaken.
[13:18] <MiSix> I got disconnected wanted to go to wifi on my phone to see if thar made any difference. The Ubuntu live does not have wifi and I don't have a la
[13:18] <MiSix> Yes Bluetooth tethering...
[13:18] <Mekaneck> ah, ok
[13:18] <MiSix> I think, I only tried it yesterday and could get search results from the browser so yes Im sure it worked.
[13:19] <MiSix> Can you help get the wifi up?
[13:19] <alkisg> Try to connect your phone via usb to your pc, then enable usb tethering
[13:22] <alkisg> https://support.google.com/android/answer/9059108?hl=en#zippy=%2Ctether-by-usb-cable
[13:28] <MiSix> So usb tether ok. There is internet. I tried to connect to you. Error. Tried the Universe one all components already enabled
[13:30] <alkisg> Do you have x11vnc installed now?
[13:30] <MiSix> E: unable to locate package
[13:30] <alkisg> What was the error that you saw?
[13:31] <alkisg> Does this work? sudo apt update
[13:32] <MiSix> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/52fa4a9261ee1f04c8fd70af3b5e080e/16277383185271891705486643652673.jpg
[13:32] <MiSix> No.
[13:33] <alkisg> That means your internet isn't working
[13:35] <MiSix> Tethering stopper trying again now
[13:37] <MiSix> X11vnc didn't work, but suxo apt update did
[13:38] <MiSix> 332 packages
[13:38] <alkisg> Now try: sudo add-apt-repository universe
[13:38] <alkisg> Then: sudo apt install x11vnc
[13:39] <MiSix> Processing 97%
[13:40] <MiSix> Ok done
[13:41] <alkisg> Then: x11vnc -connect alkisg.ltsp.org
[13:46] <alkisg> I think that the initial reason for the black screen were the nvidia drivers and/or half updates
[13:46] <alkisg> I'll update fully and reinstall grub properly
[13:46] <alkisg> And we'll see how it goes
[13:47] <MiSix> Ok
[13:50] <alkisg> While running boot-repair, you had booted into BIOS mode instead of UEFI, so it also broke grub for you, it installed grub-pc
[13:51] <MiSix> Should I remove the USB?
[13:52] <alkisg> Rebooted, remove the usb stick and see how it goes
[13:53] <MiSix> It started
[13:53] <MiSix> !!
[13:53] <alkisg> Problem solved?
[13:53] <MiSix> Ok. Wow. Thanks.
[13:53] <MiSix> Yes!
[13:53] <alkisg> See, linux has free technicians :D
[13:54] <MiSix> This is crazy I want to buy you a tree or something!
[13:55] <alkisg> Haha, I would really prefer it from a beer :)
[13:55] <MiSix> Are you Swedish? Your Nic...
[13:56] <MiSix> Trees are the best. Except for Linux ppl:)
[13:57] <alkisg> Nah, I'm Greek
[13:57] <alkisg> In greek, alkis is related to strength; in german, it's related to drunk people. Not sure about swedish :)
[13:58] <MiSix> Yes alkohol. Strength is clearly healthier...
[13:59] <MiSix> Well. Thank you. SOOO much
[14:01] <MiSix> I will plant a tree for you. Good deeds and good karma.
[14:01] <oerheks> !cookie | alkisg
[14:02] <alkisg> oerheks: thanks! I got a melon instead, being summer and all... :D
[14:02] <alkisg> (wow that was a big lag between matrix and irc, maybe 5 minutes...)
[14:03] <alkisg> MiSix: that's the best reward, a tree planted for me! Cheers!
[14:03] <MiSix> 🍀🙏
[15:17] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[18:25] <denza242> with the compositor, with using OGl 2 or 3, transparency doesn't work for certain things (krunner or widgets for example), but with xrender it does
[18:26] <denza242> but with xrender I get tearing


[00:00] <tjaalton> systemd as the default init that is
[00:00] <tjaalton> it'll get packaged due to udev
[00:00] <erappleman> imho, systemd's biggest problem is the lack of a fsck that can be canceled
[00:01] <tjaalton> systemd? you mean btrfs?
[00:01] <erappleman> no, systemd
[00:02] <tjaalton> does it even have a working fsck yet..
[00:02] <tjaalton> ok got it
[00:02] <RAOF> btrfs?  Yeah.  As long as you're happy with btrfs-progs git.
[00:02] <erappleman> btrfs has a branch that promises to ruin your fs
[00:02] <erappleman> but has fsck
[00:03] <tjaalton> i'd love to see btrfs getting usable, reminds me of advfs on tru64
[00:03] <tjaalton> some of the features at least, it's even more flexible
[00:04] <bjsnider> systemd is lennart poettering's replacement for sysv
[00:04] <bjsnider> it's another of those gnome vs. ubuntu type issues
[00:41] <tjaalton> erappleman: fyi https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-btrfs-requirements
[00:48] <RAOF> Man, can we get systemtap in main so that we can enable DTrace support?
[00:50] <bryce2> any performance impacts?
[00:50] <RAOF> I don't think so.
[00:50] <RAOF> fwiw, it's enabled in Fedora
[00:51] <tjaalton> what, systemtap supports the dtrace api?
[00:51] <erappleman> when btrfs can handle installing grub to /, i'll be impressed
[00:51] <RAOF> "Earlier this year, Adam Jackson enabled the dtrace hooks in the Fedora Xorg server package, using the SystemTap static probe support for DTrace probe compatibility. He then noticed a performance drop, which isn't supposed to happen, as DTrace probes are simply noops when not being actively traced, and submitted a fix for it upstream."
[00:51] <tjaalton> cool
[00:53]  * RAOF is rebuilding the server right now to see if it's easy to trace what compiz is doing when it hammers the server during startup.
[01:12] <tjaalton> btw, systemtap in main shouldn't be an issue, especially as it's used more and more in kernel debugging etc
[03:12] <erappleman> is anyone having problems with unity on i965 with edgers?
[03:12] <erappleman> i can't get it to load
[03:13] <erappleman> lemme get a log
[16:54] <tjaalton> duh, now the plans session conflicts with multiseat
[17:25] <tjaalton> damn, missed the first 20min of the sru session..
[18:33] <tjaalton> cnd: missing you on the xorg plans session :)
[18:33] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: got any info on mesa release that we want? guessing 8.1


[01:25] <LaserJock> does Dapper resize NTFS to make room when installing?
[01:26] <mdke> I believe so
[01:26] <mdke> hoary and breezy did it, iirc, so it would be a pretty bad regression
[01:26] <LaserJock> ok, well my little brother called last night and said he wanted to install linux
[01:27] <LaserJock> and it has been so long since I dual booted windows and linux that I didn't know
[01:27] <mdke> a great moment
[01:27] <LaserJock> I had him download the Flight6 live cd
[01:33] <Burgwork> guess I should pony up a en_CA, eh?
[01:34] <LaserJock> heh, I  was thinking some en_US translation would up his LP karam
[01:34] <LaserJock> /his/mine/
[01:34] <Burgwork> LaserJock, talking about yourself in the third person now? going to be declaring yourself king soon and invading California?
[01:35] <LaserJock> heh, no I've been to  California
[01:35] <mdke> Burgwork, firefox isn't localised for en_CA, so it wouldn't work. For some godforsaken reason, it is localised in en_GB
[01:35] <LaserJock> I don't want to be king there
[01:37] <Burgwork> Madpilot has promised to buy me a Darwin Fish tie pin to wear to my demos
[03:13] <theCore> LaserJock: hi
[03:14] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[03:16] <theCore> LaserJock: is there anything left to be done for the Packaging Guide, or we need to wait for the release of Dapper?
[03:16] <LaserJock> well, right now I'm waiting for one more diff to be sent to me and then  I'll wrap it up
[03:17] <LaserJock> but the svn repo has been branched so we can start working on Dapper+1
[03:17] <theCore> oh, ok then
[03:18] <theCore> I think I found my first package to package ;)
[03:18] <theCore> I will give the Packaging Guide a test run
[03:20] <theCore> I planning to add some SVN stuff into the PG, for packages under development
[03:22] <theCore> and probably some info about SCons, and other esoteric building system
[03:23] <LaserJock> heh, well go ahead and write it up
[03:28] <LaserJock> theCore: you want an interesting packaging assignment?
[03:28] <theCore> yes
[03:28] <LaserJock> I think it would be good to include piuparts
[03:30] <theCore> LaserJock: What is the section that talk about taking Debian packages, and modify it for Ubuntu?
[03:30] <theCore> Merge and Sync?
[03:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:32] <theCore> I think the name should be changed to a more explicit one
[03:33] <LaserJock> probably, I can't think of anything off the top of my head though
[03:34] <theCore> but, I can't think of one too, so maybe it's the most explicit for describing that
[03:36] <theCore> making the first phrase of that section explicit would fix the ``problem''
[03:38] <theCore> like ``Merges is the process of taking a Debian package to the Ubuntu reposistory"
[03:39] <LaserJock> well, we do that, it just takes a bit of explination
[03:39] <theCore> did I got the right definition?
[03:40] <theCore> or this is the Sync definition?
[03:42] <LaserJock> well, it actuall describes both :-)
[03:43] <theCore> eh :)
[03:43] <LaserJock> the difference is that sync takes the Debian package directly and a merge means the Debian package needs to be "adjusted" by Ubuntu
[03:44] <theCore> oh, then I'm doing a sync right now
[03:45] <theCore> which is better lintian or linda ?
[03:46] <theCore> linda seem to have more features than lintian
[03:50] <LaserJock> well,  to be honest I haven't seen linda catch anything
[03:50] <LaserJock> lintian is what I've always used but you could try both and see what you think
[03:51] <LaserJock> I might try out linda again and see if I'm missing something
[03:56] <theCore> LaserJock: should we have a separate section for Packaging Tools and Building Tools
[03:56] <LaserJock> yes, I think so. We just need to gather a list of tools and figure out which ones to use, etc.
[03:57] <LaserJock> I really don't want to make the Guide any bigger than it needs to be. I think it should be complete, but not bloated up with *every* possible tool
[03:57] <theCore> that's not hard
[03:57] <theCore> yeah
[03:58] <LaserJock> theCore: do you have a minute to clean up the wiki page?
[03:58] <LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
[03:58] <LaserJock> I haven't touched it for a while
[03:58] <theCore> LaserJock: ok, II was thinking about it
[03:59] <theCore> s/II/I/
[04:00] <LaserJock> k, and then start adding material you want to see for Dapper+1
[04:08] <theCore> LaserJock: what is the wiki names of the others contributors?
[04:08] <theCore> and should I remove CoreyBurger2 from the contributor line?
[04:09] <theCore> that guy seem to add his name everywhere ;)
[04:09] <LaserJock> theCore: actually I don't know
[04:10] <theCore> ok, I will leave it there
[04:10] <LaserJock> I really don't know if it was there for a reason, or what
[04:12] <theCore> maybe he contributed to the first version, or he made the Wiki page
[04:13] <LaserJock> I think he made the page
[04:14] <theCore> who read this page?
[04:14] <LaserJock> us, I guess
[04:15] <LaserJock> originally it was spec to get approved for UDU I think
[04:15] <LaserJock> actually UBZ I think
[04:17] <LaserJock> theCore: here it is on launchpad https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-packaging-guide
[04:18] <theCore> "The Ubuntu Packaging guide needs a home and the Ubuntu doc team can provide that", we are really ought to change that.
[04:20] <theCore> LaserJock: do you have the permission to change that?
[04:21] <LaserJock> well, that was the spec, and it is marked implemented. I think it is alright the way it is
[04:21] <theCore> ok, then
[04:22] <theCore> LaserJock: should I remove the section we didn't made from the PG?
[04:23] <theCore> like Target Audience
[04:25] <LaserJock> yes, first make it what it is now and then add in stuff you would like to see
[04:27] <crimsun> basic.xml is a bit unwieldy; it's _huge_ compared to the others.
[04:27] <theCore> LaserJock: ok, that exactly what I was thinking
[04:28] <theCore> crimsun: yes it's, that why I complain about a lack of style in the XML
[04:31] <theCore> crimsun: the whole guide is essentially in this file
[04:31] <crimsun> most of it
[04:31] <crimsun> I've been editing is for a couple days
[04:31] <crimsun> s/is/it/
[04:36] <LaserJock> crimsun: yes, I'm sorry about that
[04:36] <LaserJock> crimsun: I kind of threw stuff in there last minute
[04:36] <crimsun> no need to apologise. We'll have it in shape for 6.06.
[04:38] <LaserJock> yeah, I originally had an advanced section but in the end I didn't feel like there was enough material to justify it so I put it into Basic
[04:38] <crimsun> I should have basic.xml done in a couple hours. Look for the diff tomorrow morning.
[04:39] <LaserJock> ok, great
[04:42] <theCore> LaserJock: ok, I cleaned the page
[04:42] <theCore> LaserJock: now, let's brainstorm for the next version;)
[04:43] <LaserJock> ok, great
[04:46] <theCore> the page size gone to 3957 to 1819
[04:46] <theCore> that's called agressive cleaning :)
[05:08] <theCore> LaserJock: when I take a package from Debian do I change the maintainer?
[05:08] <LaserJock> theCore: no
[05:08] <theCore> so I just upload it like it is?
[05:09] <LaserJock> yes, you will be in the
[05:09] <LaserJock> Changed By: field
[05:11] <theCore> LaserJock: This should be better documented
[05:11] <LaserJock> yeah?
[05:12] <theCore> there's nothing about that in the guide
[05:13] <LaserJock> well, I guess. I didn't say to change it and you are supposed to do a changelog entry. but maybe it needs to be more explicit
[05:17] <theCore> I sure could write some a Emacs mode for helping with the packages' maintenance
[05:18] <LaserJock> there already are
[05:18] <LaserJock> devscripts-el I think is the package
[05:18] <theCore> debian-el?
[05:18] <theCore> not again ...
[05:18] <LaserJock> devscripts-el
[05:19] <theCore> my ideas always exist
[05:19] <LaserJock> heh, I don't even bother anymore ;-)
[05:19] <theCore> there's no place for innovation ...
[05:19] <theCore> hehe
[05:22] <theCore> Ubuntu is just great
[05:26] <theCore> LaserJock: maybe, adding a section about setting a maintainer environment could be good
[05:26] <LaserJock> ?
[05:28] <theCore> LaserJock: think like how to watch your packages, useful script, directories hierarchy, etc
[05:29] <LaserJock> ahh, yes. I would like that a lot
[05:29] <theCore> all sort of things that make you more productive
[05:30] <theCore> this would lower the bar for the new maintainers
[05:30] <theCore> the pbuilder section is great for that
[05:33] <theCore> by the way, devscripts-el is exactly what I wanted
[05:34] <theCore> thanks for the info
[05:34] <LaserJock> np
[05:35] <theCore> I will /try/ to improve it
[05:36] <theCore> so, I can do all the maintaining from emacs ;)
[05:38] <LaserJock> there are a few MOTUs that do that
[05:38] <LaserJock> you can report bugs to Debian from there as well
[05:57] <LaserJock> hi Madpilot
[05:58] <Madpilot> hi LaserJock
[06:01] <Madpilot> has Burgundavia been around in the last couple of hours?
[06:04] <theCore> LaserJock: ok, I gotta go
[06:04] <theCore> cia all
[06:04] <LaserJock> cya theCore
[06:05] <LaserJock> Madpilot: not really
[06:05] <Madpilot> OK, was just wondering
[06:05] <LaserJock> Madpilot: last thing he said was ~ 5hrs ago
[06:06] <Madpilot> from work, I guess
[07:19] <Burgundavia> mdke: you around?
[07:39] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: better late than never
[07:41] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: I was looking at the firefox start page
[07:42] <Burgundavia> I do epiphany, but it has the same page
[07:42] <Burgundavia> so, no, I don't do FF either
[07:43] <Madpilot> hey, that makes three of us - and three different browsers ;)
[07:43] <robotgeek> kde has a totally "different" start page :)
[07:44] <LaserJock> I use safari, does that count ;-)
[07:44] <LaserJock> oh, wait. this is Ubuntu
[07:44] <robotgeek> LaserJock: safari is just konq for the mac
[07:45] <Burgundavia> uhhh
[07:45] <LaserJock> I heard that a while back ago, don't know if it really looks that way
[07:45] <Burgundavia> I would actually say safari and firefox share more of the same UI
[07:45] <Burgundavia> althourgh they do share a similar rendering engine
[07:45] <robotgeek> khtml
[07:45] <Burgundavia> UI concepts
[07:45] <LaserJock> I believe that safari uses khtml though
[07:46] <Burgundavia> safari uses webkit, which is a deriv of khtml
[07:46] <Burgundavia> or is it webcore?
[07:47] <Burgundavia> http://webkit.opendarwin.org/
[07:47] <robotgeek> anyways, konqueror is pretty nice, except on a few sites.
[07:48] <LaserJock> in Linux I've only ever used Firefox and Konqi
[07:48] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: does epiphany talk to liferea?
[07:49] <Burgundavia> if you click on an rss link, I believe it does
[07:49] <robotgeek> hmm, i moved to kubuntu because of that one "missing" feature in Ubuntu (breezy)
[07:50] <Burgundavia> I don't use rss feeds anymore, due to not having an rss feed at work and my laptop being reinstalled every two weeks or less
[07:50] <robotgeek> rss feeds can be a distraction
[07:50] <dsas> robotgeek: It does via a plugin
[07:51] <robotgeek> dsas: i did look, i swear. (but for firefox)
[07:51] <dsas> robotgeek: I think it's only recently that the plugin was made tbh.
[07:51] <robotgeek> well, ubuntu's loss is kubuntu's gain :)
[07:51] <dsas> Burgundavia: Just setup your own personal planet, no need to worry about things that way :) (besides spending too much time reading)
[07:52] <Burgundavia> dsas: yes, that is on my long term plans
[08:09] <Burgundavia> ok, grumble https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkPrintingFromUbuntu
[08:09] <Burgundavia> salut robitaille
[08:11] <robitaille> Bonsoir Burgundavia
[08:17] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, just change that page into a redirect to one of the existing network printing pages - it's a good title, shame about the content...
[08:17] <Burgundavia> lol
[08:23] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: redirect to what?
[08:23] <Madpilot> there's an Ubuntu-to-XP-printer page, and an XP-to-Ubuntu-printer page - whichever is a better fit
[08:25] <LaserJock> ack, anybody know how to create the .pot files?
[08:27] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: ugh
[08:27] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: all those pages need a rewrite
[08:27] <Burgundavia> guess I should borrow a printer and try it out
[08:28] <Madpilot> my old Lexmark is still downstairs, I think it kind of runs in Ubuntu :P
[08:28] <Madpilot> actually it did, but as a printer it just sucked - and all it's ink has dried out
[08:28] <Burgundavia> there are 6 dead printers in the garage here
[08:28] <Burgundavia> at least one of them must poweron
[08:29] <Madpilot> my Lexmark does at least poweron, it'll even move it's printheads
[08:29] <robitaille> and my printer doesn't even work in Dapper...
[08:29] <Madpilot> robitaille, did it in Breezy?
[08:29] <robitaille> yes.
[08:30] <robitaille> and yes a bug report has been filled weeks ago
[08:30] <Burgundavia> robitaille: try again today, the new guten print just hit
[08:31] <robitaille> ah.  Hopefully that will do it.  that's  a showstopper to upgrade the desktop here since the rest of the family uses the printer
[08:32] <Burgundavia> it might have been an issue with ppd's moving
[08:32] <Burgundavia> seems the new cups is looking for them in a different dir and gutenprint hadn't caught up yet
[08:32] <robitaille> it prints, but only blank pages :)
[08:32] <Burgundavia> I think, at least
[08:32] <Burgundavia> I am usually wrong on these things
[08:50] <mdke_> Burgundavia, hi
[08:50] <Burgundavia> mdke_: morning
[08:52] <Burgundavia> mdke_: once again, I have brilliant ideas at the eleventh hour
[08:53] <mdke_> Burgundavia, advance warning: I've had lots of translations already for that page, so we can't change any strings
[08:53] <Burgundavia> ah, in that case, np
[08:53] <Burgundavia> however, we do, in any current lit, describe ourselves as "The Ubuntu Project"
[08:54] <Burgundavia> we decribe ourselves as a project, but not capital P
[08:54] <mdke_> so small "p"?
[08:54] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:54] <mdke_> we can probably do that, it's a correction to the english version
[08:55] <mdke_> so it shouldn't affect the translations too badly
[08:55] <Burgundavia> oh, wait, there is a reference to capital P on the Ubuntu.com/ubuntu site
[08:55] <Burgundavia> easier to nuke that, as it is the only place we say that
[08:55] <mdke_> there are a lot of capital letters that shouldn't be there in the ff home page
[08:55] <mdke_> especially links
[08:56] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:57] <mdke_> I am quite tempted to correct them, and inform the translators. they can change theirs if they like
[08:57] <Burgundavia> ok, reference to Ubuntu Project dead on teh ubutnu webiste
[08:58] <Burgundavia> I am on a mission to find and make certain we refer to ourselves as just Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Linux or anything else
[08:58] <Burgundavia> reduces confusion
[09:01] <Burgundavia> another minor point, maybe call it Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake), for conformity with the docs
[09:01] <mdke_> yes, I grepped all the docs for that
[09:01] <mdke_> (Ubuntu Linux)
[09:01] <Burgundavia> Welcome to Ubuntu 6.06, Dapper Drake!
[09:01] <mdke_> hmm, I don't think we can change that because all the translations have done it
[09:01] <mdke_> no biggie, I hope
[09:01] <Burgundavia> ha
[09:01] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:13] <robitaille> Burgundavia: just tried the new gutenprint.  It's actually worse.  Before it was printing blank pages.  Now I cannot even add the printer :)
[09:13] <Burgundavia> robitaille: cool!
[09:13] <Burgundavia> I love printing
[09:14] <Burgundavia> ok, ladislav at distrowatch rocksw
[09:14] <Burgundavia> I emailed him today about it being Ubuntu Linux, not Ubuntu, and he as fixed it already
[09:20] <mdke_> Burgundavia, the other way round, right?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:20] <mdke_> phew
[09:20] <Burgundavia> it was listed as Ubuntu Linux, not Ubuntu
[09:20] <mdke_> nice work
[09:20] <Burgundavia> sorry, realized that wasn't clear
[09:21] <Burgundavia> given how bad most distros are about cohesive marketing...
[09:22] <Burgundavia> can we not generate a pot of the ff start page when it is xhtml
[09:22] <Burgundavia> ?
[09:22] <Madpilot> AFAIK it is, and we did
[09:23] <Burgundavia> then why did we not use rosetta?'
[09:23] <mdke_> we didn't
[09:23] <mdke_> I came to the conclusion it wasn't really worth it for such a short file, maybe wrongly I guess
[09:23] <Burgundavia> ah, ok
[09:23] <Burgundavia> meh, you live and learn
[09:23] <mdke_> it's a slightly tricky business though
[09:24] <mdke_> only locales for which a firefox translation exist will appear
[09:24] <mdke_> this way, I can explain that to everyone who sends me a translation but doesn't have a firefox localisation
[03:06] <mdke_> holy moley
[03:06] <mdke_> kubuntu-docs (binary) is 11MB
[03:06] <mdke_> we need to do something about that
[03:35] <mdke_> robotgeek, none of the images were used afaics, I've nuked them all
[06:22] <jenda> Hello doc team. Could I ask you a favor in the name of the Marketing Team, which is going through a reform around this time. We will be dropping two projects (at least): New User Literature and Speaker Literature. These are/were in charge for creating/obtaining material for SpreadUbuntu and DIY Marketing (and potentially other projects) to draw upon. We decided that this is redundant, as the Doc Team has probably created enough already - AFAIK, it w
[06:22] <jenda> as active all the time the MT laid in ruins. So, since you know a lot better what you have than I do, would any of you mind having a look around for docs that help clear what ubuntu is to a person (see spreadfirefox.com ) and even more important, somesuch that could help people wha plan to preach publically about Ubuntu. We will then hopefully rework the former into leaflets, posters and the latter to teaching guides, advocacy papers et al. Thanks,
[06:22] <jenda> --Jenda.
[06:48] <mhz> jenda: hmm have you seen new "dapper firefox default url" ?
[06:49] <jenda> mhz nope...
[06:51] <mhz> but I have been told it is pretty much a summary of what you need
[06:52] <jenda> Hmm... (note to self - find dapper user)
[06:54] <LaserJock> that is probably online somewhere
[06:55] <Burgwork> what do you need jenda ?
[06:56] <jenda> Read above, Burgwork - nothing more, nothing less - except, if you use dapper, what's the default page in FF there? I can't fnid it online anywhere.
[06:56] <jenda> :)
[06:58] <Burgwork> it is in svn
[06:59] <jenda> Where?
[06:59] <Burgwork>  /DocumentationTeam
[06:59] <Burgwork> has a link to the svn repo
[07:00] <jenda> OK, thx
[07:01] <LaserJock> jenda: I've got a copy at http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/starterpage/home/
[07:02] <jenda> yay, thanks, LaserJock
[07:02] <LaserJock> at least I think that is it, I just copied it from my ubuntu box
[07:02] <poningru> arr
[07:03] <poningru> hey guys
[07:03] <jenda> OK, that's not really what the Marketing Team needs, since it's intended for the user who has just booted to dapper. What I'm looking for is intended for one that has just been told "oi, check out Ubuntu, it rocks"
[07:03] <jenda> 'lo poningru
[07:05] <jenda> LaserJock: i'll toss it to the Team anyway - will you keep it up there for some time, or is it temp?
[07:05] <poningru> jenda: that needs a full team to create matierials
[07:05] <LaserJock> jenda: I'd take a look at doc.ubuntu.com
[07:05] <poningru> during sfx we had community drives to create matierials
[07:05] <jenda> poningru: i know, I was of the impression that this team already _had_ something.
[07:05] <poningru> jenda: well docs are not a good way to do this imho
[07:06] <LaserJock> jenda: I think what you might want is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
[07:06] <poningru> it needs things like tiny pics, vids, etc. that are drive by marketing kinda
[07:06] <jenda> The MT will then rework what it gets (hopefully - I won't be there to do all the work) and makes what's missing.
[07:06] <jenda> poningru: that we can manage.
[07:06] <jenda> Or "they"
[07:07] <poningru> hmm right
[07:07] <jenda> I'm trying to get something going - as soon as it does (and I think it might), I'll take a break till June 22.
[07:07] <jenda> Thanks, LaserJock, going through that.
[07:08] <jenda> LaserJock: Yes, that's exactly what I needed.
[07:08] <jenda> Now all that the MT lacks is something for the advocates. But perhaps that could be extracted as well.
[07:11] <jenda> LaserJock: is all that content FDL/CC?
[07:11] <jenda> n/m, found it.
[07:11] <LaserJock> jenda: should be, we only have 1 doc that isn't
[07:12] <jenda> out of curiosity - which one?
[07:13] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[07:13] <LaserJock> it is GPL
[07:14] <LaserJock> since all of  Debian packaging docs are GPL and we will have an Ubuntu Developer's Reference that will be GPL
[07:16] <jenda> OK
[07:21] <mdke_> evening all
[07:22] <LaserJock> hi mdke
[07:22] <Burgwork> salut mdke
[07:23] <mdke> what's going down in docland?
[07:24] <LaserJock> huge commits to the dapper branch
[07:24] <LaserJock> :-)
[07:25] <mdke> :)
[07:26] <jenda> mdke: thx @ mailing list :)
[07:27] <jenda> LaserJock: prime stuff, what you linked me to...
[07:27] <jenda> mdke https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreatFeaturesOfUbuntu, been looking for for _ages_
[07:28] <mdke> jenda, np
[07:31] <jenda> BTW, isn't flash proprietary? maybe the mentioned animations should use a free format.
[07:31] <mdke> heh
[07:31] <poningru> hehe
[07:31] <mdke> jenda, don't worry, they think about these things
[07:31] <poningru> there is no free animation protocol that is well used
[07:31] <poningru> or easy to create
[07:31] <poningru> canvas can be used
[07:31] <mdke> there is free flash code. but that animation is being deferred for dapper+1, I'm afraid
[07:31] <poningru> but...
[07:31] <mdke> still good material tho
[07:32] <poningru> firefox supports canvas out of the box and we could do our animations in that but its a pita to create
[07:33] <jenda> OK :)
[07:40] <Burgwork> they are going to create flash that can be read with gnash
[07:40] <Burgwork> btw, mdke, have you heard anything more on that?
[07:41] <mdke> yes, it's off
[07:41] <mdke> apparently there was a problem with the software
[07:41] <Burgwork> ah
[07:41] <mdke> ->dapper+1
[07:52] <LaserJock> heh, dapper+1 should really rock if we can just get all the things we deferred from dapper in :-)
[07:52] <mdke> LaserJock, yes, it should be pretty hot
[07:56] <Burgwork> xgl, gnash, beagle, etc.
[07:56] <Burgwork> where does the crack end?
[07:56] <mdke> heh
[07:57] <frank23> what is gnash?
[07:58] <Burgwork> a gpl implementation of flash
[07:58] <frank23> Burgwork: oh. does it work well?
[07:59] <jenda> supybot says: "G.N.A.S.H.: General Networked Android Skilled in Harm" :)
[08:00] <Burgwork> frank23, somewhat
[08:00] <Burgwork> currently supports only part of 7 and not 8
[08:03] <mdke> right
[08:03] <mdke> time to format and reinstall everything
[08:04] <mdke> i haven't done that for _ages_
[08:09] <LaserJock> mdke: I'm done
[08:11] <LaserJock> mdke: the only thing I will probably replace dapper with the name of dapper+1 (once it is finalized) since most of the development during dapper will be for dapper+1
[08:19] <mdke> LaserJock_away, cool
[08:51] <mdke> ahhhh crap
[08:52] <LaserJock> oh crap
[08:53] <mdke> looks like the old "keep windows on the lappy for safe keeping" is going to have to go down the drain
[08:55] <LaserJock> I forgot to update the .pot :(
[08:55] <mdke> LaserJock, i was about to say "new pot please"
[08:55] <LaserJock> done
[08:55] <mdke> good man
[08:55] <LaserJock> I can't believe I forgot
[08:56] <mdke> np dude
[08:57] <crimsun> I'm guessing my edits weren't merged?
[08:57] <LaserJock> yes
[08:58] <LaserJock> they are in and ready to be translated, soon
[08:58] <mdke> crimsun, :)
[08:59] <crimsun> are you committing to an "internal" svn server?
[08:59] <crimsun> as of r2870, my changes still don't appear
[08:59] <mdke> crimsun, we're in a branch now
[08:59] <LaserJock> crimsun: oh, yes. dapper was branched
[08:59] <crimsun> ARGH.
[09:00] <LaserJock> I'm going to commit them today in trunk but I just wanted to make sure they went into dapper first
[09:00] <LaserJock> crimsun: sorry about that dude
[09:09] <LaserJock> crimsun: as of 2871 they should be in ;-)
[10:58] <jjesse> LaserJock: raphink says in the packaging guide his name isn't spelled right?
[10:58] <LaserJock> jjesse: grrr, really?
[10:59] <crimsun> my name isn't spelled at all :p
[11:00] <LaserJock> doh
[11:01] <mdke> meh
[11:06] <LaserJock> jjesse: I had it right. It was wrong a while back ago but I fixed it. I think it just took a while to get updated online, etc.
[11:06] <mdke> LaserJock, crimsun's should be there though
[11:06] <LaserJock> yes, most definately
[11:07] <crimsun> I'm jesting; it doesn't matter
[11:07] <mdke> it does!
[11:07] <jjesse> LaserJock: ah ok
[11:07] <LaserJock> It matters to me, you did an huge facor
[11:07] <LaserJock> favor
[11:07] <crimsun> now back to alsa. sigh.
[11:07] <LaserJock> you really helped the readability of the doc
[11:35] <mdke> LaserJock, I'm going to need to do a couple of edits to the server guide too
[11:35] <mdke> dammit
[11:35] <mdke> we suck as this "freeze" business
[11:36] <crimsun> hehe, if you think it's bad now, I don't know if you remember Warty ;)
[11:36] <mdke> I wasn't involved in docs for warty
[11:36] <mdke> were there any?
[11:36] <crimsun> not really, just referring to last-minutes
[11:36] <Burgwork> for warty?
[11:36] <Burgwork> nope
[11:37] <mdke> trappist, while I'm at the server guide, are you going to have any ifup/down action going on today?
[11:38] <LaserJock> mdke: if you use aptitude then it grabs Recommended by default, that might have been the problem
[11:38] <mdke> could be
[11:38] <mdke> but we don't, in that doc
[11:39] <LaserJock> oh crap, I have a major pain in my back today. I can't sit up straight :(
[11:39] <trappist> mdke: hopefully this evening
[11:40] <mdke> trappist, that would be cool
[11:41] <trappist> mdke: I think you owe me $10 for being glad I solicited reviews :)
[11:41] <trappist> 10:57 <trappist> mdke: $10 says we'll be glad we did it - people will catch things we won't believe we didn't catch ourselves
[11:42] <LaserJock> heh, either that or you own him $10 for the pain you have caused ;p
[11:42] <trappist> fine, we'll call it even :)
[11:43] <trappist> would have been less painful if the post to the -server list didn't have to wait for a moderator, which wouldn't have happened if I'd been subscribed, and I would have been subscribed if the list was listed on lists.ubuntu.com... so somebody owes me $10 by god!
[11:46] <LaserJock> maybe you should ask Mark for it?
[11:46] <trappist> who's that? shuttleworth?
[11:46] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:46] <trappist> if he's in charge of lists.ubuntu.com, I just might ;)
[11:47] <LaserJock> I'm sure somehow he is :-)
[11:47] <mdke_> trappist, did I take that bet?
[11:48] <trappist> I guess not
[11:50] <mdke_> i tell you what is terrible
[11:50] <mdke_> syntax highlighting isn't working in gedit now
[11:54] <mdke_> trappist, warning: lamont is the debian+ubuntu postfix maintainer ;)
[11:55] <trappist> hehe
[11:55] <trappist> I had no idea
[11:56] <Burgwork> trappist, lamont is also 40+ and has worked for exactly two companies in his life
[11:56] <Burgwork> HP and Canonical
[11:56] <trappist> that's pretty awesome.
[11:58] <LaserJock> trappist: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html
[11:59] <trappist> LaserJock: beautiful, thanks :)


[13:29] <cjwatson> Ursinha: https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/refactor-cron-germinate/+merge/84624
[13:46] <wgrant> cjwatson: eg. I do 'import xmlrpclib; print xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://foo.buildd:8221/rpc").status()'
[18:55] <dlpenguinlover> Hello all, I'm having some trouble running the launchpad instance. Every time i have attempted to run rocketfuel-setup, some point along the way, bzr fails and says "bzr: error: No WorkingTree exists for "file:///home/david/launchpad/lp-branches/devel/.bzr/checkout"/ ERROR: Your trunk branch in /home/david/launchpad/lp-branches/devel is corrupt. Please delete /home/david/launchpad/lp-branches/devel and run rocketfuel-se
[18:55] <dlpenguinlover> s
[18:56] <dlpenguinlover> I want to have to redownload all 400+ mbs of data as I have a somewhat slow internet connection. Suggestions?
[18:57] <dlpenguinlover> *don't want


[00:01] <madnick> Unit193: do you want to test it?
[00:01] <madnick> it would be great help
[00:02] <Unit193> The point is that I'm not sure if it will even work
[00:04] <Unit193> It takes way too many reboots to get this working and when I do, I only reboot for power outages (And now it's on an old UPS)
[00:04] <madnick> oh
[00:05] <Unit193> I'll still try if I can get a mostly working Oneiric install
[00:31] <GridCube> charlie-tca, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor
[00:42] <charlie-tca> GridCube: thank you
[01:57] <charlie-tca> Okay, got the meeting minutes out. Good night
[08:56] <astraljava> madnick: If you need something to be tested on real hardware, I should get most of my machines up and running this evening (meaning in 6 to 7 hours)
[10:26] <madnick> astraljava: sweet :) would be great
[11:32] <astraljava> madnick: Okay, gonna have to push it forward a few hours.  But it's only some 3 hours delay, so we'll talk again in...  Seriously, when you think about it. That's where life begins. :D
[13:50] <madnick> Is it a bug that you must first set properities of the screenshot utility for the panel, then click it?
[13:54] <madnick> !bug help
[13:56] <charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit : found a few more mb to save in Xubuntu. We are installing gwibber and gwibber-service by default. This is both images and updates.
[13:56] <madnick> I don't think Im gonna file a bug report, it might be a "feature" :P
[14:00] <madnick> charlie-tca: cannot do much more than this with the current configuration: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png
[14:00] <astraljava> madnick: Not following you. Do you mean there's an applet for the screenshot utility, and it sits in the panel? How can you set the properties, if not by clicking on it?
[14:00] <madnick> astraljava: currently, 11.04
[14:01] <madnick> you can simply click it
[14:01] <madnick> But on Oneiric you need to right click -> properites, set mode
[14:01] <madnick> then click it again, and do the thing you selected by right clicking
[14:01] <charlie-tca> madnick: right, until Ubuntu straightens out the configuration files first, we get blocked
[14:01] <astraljava> madnick: Every time?!
[14:01] <madnick> astraljava: yes
[14:01]  * astraljava faints
[14:01] <charlie-tca> We will want to remove "Guest" before we release
[14:01] <madnick> astraljava: try it out :)
[14:02] <astraljava> madnick: Don't have it installed, yet, but will do later in the evening/night.
[14:02] <madnick> charlie-tca: yep, i was just testing how much there could be done :P
[14:03] <charlie-tca> I had that on my machine until they messed with the files
[14:03] <charlie-tca> I like that better then the pink I get now
[14:03] <madnick> :D
[14:03] <madnick> pink hurts peoples eyes :P
[14:03] <charlie-tca> yup
[14:03] <madnick> It was like rule #1 in website
[14:04] <madnick> design*
[14:04] <madnick> astraljava: do you think i should file it as a bug?
[14:04] <davmor2> madnick: it does mostly cause I poke the designers eyes out for using pink :D
[14:04] <charlie-tca> Well, I think it is supposed to be purple, but it depends on your monitor and video as to the actual color you see
[14:04] <madnick> davmor2: :D
[14:06] <astraljava> madnick: It depends on whether it's against the user experience specs or not (don't really think there are any.)
[14:07] <astraljava> madnick: File it away, it'll be marked as a wishlist if it is.
[14:07] <madnick> Well, it breaks current behavior
[14:07] <astraljava> Right.
[14:08] <astraljava> Okay, I'm off for a couple of hours. I'll ping ya when I get back, so we can talk about what it was I promised to test. :)
[14:08] <madnick> sweet
[14:08] <madnick> have fun! :)
[14:10] <madnick> ill get on making a package for easier testing
[14:31] <charlie-tca> great! I need issues with staying connected today
[14:43] <madnick> dh_make sure is not explianitory :D
[14:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: are you be facetious?
[14:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: that's going away, it's temporary, but bad timing
[14:46] <charlie-tca> about the connection?
[14:46] <charlie-tca> yes
[14:46] <charlie-tca> about gwibber?
[14:46] <charlie-tca> no
[14:46] <charlie-tca> It pulled in today with updates
[14:47] <charlie-tca> and it installed today with a fresh install
[14:50] <micahg> yes, it's now a recommends of indicator-messages
[14:50] <micahg> that will be fixed right after alpha3, but it was bad timing
[15:10] <charlie-tca> I don't know what happened, but Xubuntu images are working and Ubuntu images are broken for now
[15:10] <charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg. I knew you would be on top of ti
[15:11] <charlie-tca> s/ti/it
[15:11] <micahg> charlie-tca: we're ok space wise, is it ok to release w/gwibber in alpha3 and release note it as unintentional?
[15:11] <charlie-tca> yup
[15:11] <charlie-tca> That's not a problem
[15:11] <charlie-tca> It just bothered me that the update on this system pulled it in
[15:11]  * micahg wonders if kenvandine was trying to get wider testing for gwibber
[15:12]  * charlie-tca nods
[15:12] <micahg> charlie-tca: well, it's a recommends of indicator-messages which is a depends on indicator-messages-gtk2, which is a recommends of xfce4-indicator-plugin
[15:13] <charlie-tca> but it shouldn't be a recommends, should it?
[15:13] <charlie-tca> indicator-messages does not need gwibber
[15:13] <charlie-tca> even if gwibber needs it
[15:14] <charlie-tca> That's the kind of thing that makes it hard for all of us "official" derivatives
[15:15] <micahg> no, it should've just been seeded
[15:15] <micahg> and it will be after alpha3 (I have no idea why he didn't just seed it properly now)
[15:15] <charlie-tca> oh, right
[15:16] <charlie-tca> I can think of a lot of reasons, all of which I will keep to myself ;)
[15:16] <micahg> same with xdiagnose, it was a recommends, then a depends, then it got seeded
[15:16] <micahg> BTW, do we want that :)
[15:16] <charlie-tca> It does make troubleshooting xorg easier, doesn't it?
[15:16] <micahg> yes
[15:17] <charlie-tca> Otherwise, we have to have users install it, then gather the information and attach it to their bugs
[15:17] <charlie-tca> I forgot why they removed it though
[15:17] <charlie-tca> it messes something up, for some users
[15:17] <micahg> no, it's seeded on the Desktop CD now
[15:18] <charlie-tca> If it doesn't cause problems, yes, we want it
[15:18] <charlie-tca> Makes bug work much easier
[15:18] <micahg> k, well, I can add it after alpha3 and you can tell me if it breaks anything
[15:18] <charlie-tca> okay
[15:19] <charlie-tca> hm, I have it already on this system
[15:19] <charlie-tca> Does that mess with plymouth, by chance?
[15:20] <micahg> I don't think so, but no idea really
[15:20] <charlie-tca> oaky
[15:23] <charlie-tca> nope
[15:23] <charlie-tca> that's not the problem
[15:23] <charlie-tca> I will keep trying
[15:29] <micahg> BTW, mythbuntu has their own greeter
[15:32] <charlie-tca> nice
[15:33] <charlie-tca> Are they using lightdm?
[15:33] <micahg> yep
[15:33] <charlie-tca> madnick: might be worth looking at?
[15:34] <micahg> still in Unapproved
[15:34] <charlie-tca> makes it harder, then
[15:34] <micahg> err, new
[15:34] <charlie-tca> I have my fingers crossed that when they fix Ubuntu images today, they don't mess up ours
[15:43] <madnick> sure, but I thought you wanted to go with the default greeter?
[15:46] <charlie-tca> madnick is working on one for us. I didn't care if we stayed with the default or customize it, myself. If we had a nice customized version, that would be great.
[15:46] <madnick> ah okay :>
[15:47] <charlie-tca> We are going to have a custom plymouth screen that is fantastic! a new greeter would be nice, but is not a necessity
[15:51] <madnick> with lightdm we could really do something unique
[15:52] <madnick> no idea what tho :D
[16:01] <charlie-tca> We have time to think about it
[16:02] <charlie-tca> Maybe take a look at the wallpapers in Settings -> Desktop, and also on the wiki in
[16:03] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty and the other artwork pages there
[16:04] <madnick> I read a bit online about dm's, and a often requested feature is to use their own background, but that sortra breaks with multiuser systems
[16:05] <charlie-tca> yes, we can work towards that as a long range goal, but for oneiric, it may not happen
[16:05] <charlie-tca> time is growing short now
[16:06] <madnick> hehe, ubuntu is writing their theme in vala
[16:07] <TheSheep> they only want one or two of them, ever
[16:07] <micahg> that's because the person writing it loves vala
[16:08] <TheSheep> I can understand that customizability is actually against ubuntu's goals
[16:08] <TheSheep> especially with their mac complex
[16:08] <TheSheep> vala is a pretty awesome language for programming
[16:09] <madnick> yes
[16:09] <TheSheep> not sure how it works for design though
[16:09] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I would rather we don't follow that lead
[16:09] <TheSheep> they have been stripping customizability and hardcoding things since quite a while
[16:10] <TheSheep> it's hard to stop once you move in that direction
[16:10] <charlie-tca> Which, in reality, is not a bad thing for beginners in linux
[16:10] <charlie-tca> but, Xfce is about being able to customize, isn't it?
[16:10]  * micahg thought the was KDE
[16:10] <madnick> private bool background_animate_cb () <- This I dont think we can do without rewriting source, if we would like to add such things
[16:10] <TheSheep> at some point you realize that your new tablet pc cannot have higher resolution because all your ui would need remaking
[16:10]  * charlie-tca thinks "modular", for customisation
[16:11] <TheSheep> even if xfce wanted to go down that path, we can't, because we need to rely on user-provided content and designs
[16:12] <TheSheep> s/xfce/xubuntu
[16:12] <TheSheep> sorry
[16:12] <TheSheep> the punk approach
[16:12] <charlie-tca> I understand, I like the direction we take
[16:12] <charlie-tca> madnick: is that line from the source for lightdm or a config file?
[16:13] <madnick> charlie-tca: well, its not from lightdm, its from a theme, you supply a "binary", the config file however, you cannot do much with
[16:13] <charlie-tca> oh
[16:13] <micahg> we will provide our own config file as well
[16:13] <charlie-tca> This is why I don't do coding today
[16:13] <madnick> Thats what I said about C/GTK last nite
[16:14] <madnick> And you said "don't" :P
[16:14] <charlie-tca> I test, if you give me instructions. It is easier on my poor old brain
[16:14] <charlie-tca> micahg knows more than I do about it.
[16:14] <madnick> micahg: are you working on this?
[16:15] <charlie-tca> what did I say 'don't' to?
[16:15] <madnick> charlie-tca: to modifying lightdm-gtk-greeter.c
[16:15] <charlie-tca> is that the theme or config or ??
[16:16] <madnick> It is the theme kinda
[16:16] <charlie-tca> If that is the source itself, we should not need to modify it, but if that is the theme, we do.
[16:16] <madnick> I see
[16:16] <charlie-tca> micahg: should we just tell madnick to do what he sees fit now to make it work for Xubuntu?
[16:16] <madnick> I was acctually a bit scared that we were only allowed to modify the config file, because that did not provide much to configure
[16:17] <micahg> charlie-tca: well, anything in the greeter package is available for changing, anything in core lightdm would need approval
[16:17] <charlie-tca> there, madnick ^ ^ ^\
[16:17] <madnick> awesome
[16:18] <charlie-tca> Is that better?
[16:18] <madnick> yep
[16:18] <micahg> we will also have a custom config file as well for various options that we should override (like no guest session)
[16:20] <madnick> I'll try to produce something "mockup" like, but tomorrow I have to give a short lecture, so I wont be on until later, so maybe tomorrow night i will have something
[16:21] <charlie-tca> Take your time.
[16:29] <madnick> Ubuntus greeter can already hide guest session
[16:37] <micahg> indeed, we're just waiting for a config file we can modify
[17:51] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit appears to have pushed through a couple of changes for us in lightdm, giving us a .conf file and removing guest session.
[17:51] <charlie-tca> Yay!
[17:54] <charlie-tca> madnick: might have to wait until alpha3 releases to see it, but we are gaining
[17:56] <madnick> cool :)
[17:56] <madnick> Is there GTK3?
[17:58] <charlie-tca> for?
[17:58] <charlie-tca> well, yes, GTK3 is out, but Xubuntu will not use it for Oneiric
[17:59] <madnick> okay, so we cannot costumize the current ubuntu theme, we either costumize the the default or make a brand new
[17:59] <madnick> It depends on GTK3
[17:59] <charlie-tca> Oh, goody
[18:00] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are we putting both gtk2 and gtk3 on the cd?
[18:01] <charlie-tca> oh, make us a new one, for Xubuntu
[18:01] <charlie-tca> if mr_pouit puts gtk3 on the images, we can use that, otherwise, can we use gtk2?
[18:02] <madnick> Problem is UI freeze
[18:02] <madnick> Its quite a big task
[18:02] <madnick> + testing
[18:02] <charlie-tca> We will get a ffe for it.
[18:02] <charlie-tca> or, rather, a ui freeze exception if we have to
[18:02] <madnick> acctually, if i work on this constantly, i should be done before that
[18:03] <madnick> I think it will be fine
[18:03] <charlie-tca> UI and Beta freeze are the 25th of august
[18:03] <madnick> oh 25th, not 15th
[18:03] <madnick> sorry i had misread
[18:03] <madnick> then its cool
[18:03] <charlie-tca> right
[18:03] <charlie-tca> extra 10 days now, huh?
[18:03] <madnick> yeah :D
[18:33] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do I need to respin the images for lightdm?
[18:34] <charlie-tca> The images from this morning are the alpha3 candidates right now
[18:34] <charlie-tca> micahg: any idea?
[18:35] <charlie-tca> A little help please!
[18:35] <micahg> yeah, I think we do assuming what was uploaded actually works
[18:35] <charlie-tca> How will we know without spinning them?
[18:35] <charlie-tca> I can't mr_pouit to respond at all today
[18:36] <micahg> charlie-tca: upgrade an oneiric desktop?
[18:36] <charlie-tca> got one here to try
[18:37] <micahg> if the guest session is hidden, it should mean it's working
[18:37] <charlie-tca> upgrading now
[18:40] <charlie-tca> 13 new packages, 62 upgrades, lightdm is not one of them
[18:40] <charlie-tca> doesn't look to me like mr_pouit 's changes are in yet
[18:41] <charlie-tca> I can have the images added to the tracker for us
[18:41] <micahg> no, lightdm wasn't uploaded, xubuntu-default-settings was
[18:41] <micahg> should be 11.10.2
[18:41] <charlie-tca> not in the upgrades
[18:42] <micahg> published 37 minutes ago, so might not have hit the mirrors yet
[18:43] <charlie-tca> Well, crap
[18:45]  * micahg figures mr_pouit wanted that change in, but wasn't aware of the 12:00 UTC freeze
[18:48] <charlie-tca> well, images will respin tonight
[18:48] <charlie-tca> replacement pidgin in the upgrades
[18:49] <micahg> 2.9.0 was uploaded last week
[18:49] <charlie-tca> I just installed this one two days ago
[18:50] <charlie-tca> image dated 2011-07-29
[18:50] <micahg> hmm
[18:51] <micahg> it was uploaded that day :)
[18:51] <charlie-tca> That explains it
[18:53] <astraljava> o/
[18:53] <charlie-tca> xubuntu-default-settings 11.10.1
[18:53] <micahg> nope, you want .2
[18:53] <charlie-tca> not there yet
[18:54] <charlie-tca> Wish I could see madnick's new plymouth screens, too
[18:54] <charlie-tca> OTOH, I can't see the old ones, either
[18:56] <astraljava> madnick: I'm in, again. Just a heads-up. Will still fiddle with these machines for a bit, but just fire away if you got something. :)
[18:57] <madnick> astraljava: sweet
[18:57] <madnick> well, the themes are at
[18:58] <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu <- however, its a "bit" outdated, but not in terms of what it shall do, just graphics + minor changes
[19:07] <astraljava> madnick: Okay, so is that .tar.gz the one I need to fetch? And if yes, then where shall I unpack it?
[19:09] <madnick> astraljava: okay
[19:09] <madnick> Like this:
[19:09] <madnick> Its the tar file, put it in /lib/plymouth/themes/{here} then run:
[19:11] <madnick> sudo update-alternatives --install /lib/plymouth/themes/default.plymouth default.plymouth /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-plymouth/xubuntu-plymouth.plymouth 100
[19:11] <madnick> then run sudo update-alternatives --config default.plymouth .. then run sudo update-initramfs -u
[19:13] <madnick> Yeap, that should be right (double checked)
[19:16] <madnick> astraljava: i need to reboot, i be back in 30 seconds
[19:16] <astraljava> Cool, thanks! I'll report back when I get to that stage.
[19:18] <madnick> astraljava: awesome, thanks for doing this :)
[19:18] <charlie-tca> madnick: you changed the names?
[19:19] <madnick> charlie-tca: yep, i put xubuntu in the name so people shall know what it is
[19:19] <charlie-tca> Is that why I can't make it work?
[19:19] <madnick> charlie-tca: if you had the old files, it should work anyways
[19:19] <madnick> If you mixed the new with the old, then it will not work
[19:20] <charlie-tca> I had a folder named madnick instead of xubuntu-plymouth
[19:20] <madnick> okay, but you were using madnick.tar.gz right? then that should not be a conflic
[19:20] <madnick> conflict*
[19:21] <madnick> charlie-tca: i uploaded this last night, if you have not downloaded since last night, you are not effected
[19:21] <charlie-tca> that doesn't work with the update commands
[19:22] <madnick> charlie-tca: if you installed the "Manual" way, and have not restored previous files, it will not work to use the update command
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Oh, I see
[19:23] <madnick> i need more screens :P Im testing the changes i made to the DM on a netbook :(
[19:24] <madnick> charlie-tca: hm, could you found out what version of the greeter we are using on the images?
[19:24] <madnick> I have no idea how to do that
[19:24] <madnick> (the ones with the config file)
[19:25] <charlie-tca> How do I make it go to auto mode?
[19:26] <madnick> charlie-tca: you set a higher precedence
[19:26] <madnick> than 100
[19:26] <madnick> or lower, i dont remmeber
[19:26] <madnick> Let me check
[19:26] <madnick> yeah lower, try 50
[19:27] <charlie-tca> I will try it
[19:27] <charlie-tca> Um, until they quit making changes, I don't what version it will end up as
[19:28] <charlie-tca> well, at least we don't hang anymore if no session is entered. It just loops back to the login screen now
[19:29] <madnick> okay, well, i guess i could use the default greeter and build on that, shouldnt be too many changes
[19:30] <madnick> knome: do you have any ideas for a DM theme?
[19:33] <charlie-tca> Wonder if we should perhaps use an Xfce in the background ?
[19:33] <madnick> the mouse?
[19:34] <charlie-tca> no, the letters "Xfce"
[19:34] <madnick> ah
[19:35] <charlie-tca> If you look in Sessions and Startup, there are 4 display manager screens listed that worked with GDM
[19:35] <charlie-tca> Not sure they are still valid for us, but they give you an idea, anyway.
[19:35] <charlie-tca> You can preview them, maybe
[19:36] <madnick> yep
[19:37] <madnick> Should be keep the position of the login in the middle? or something closer to this:
[19:37] <madnick> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o1flLfTEanU/Th3TpoGpcBI/AAAAAAAABFg/oRyhXzQ22RU/s1600/unity+greeter+1.png
[19:38] <madnick> we can also animate stuff
[19:38] <madnick> perhaps a detail of a background, like a bird in the current background for example
[19:39] <charlie-tca> We could put the mouse logo on the right?
[19:39] <madnick> Yes
[19:39] <charlie-tca> That ties it to us and Xfce at the same time
[19:39] <charlie-tca> I like the offset
[19:39] <charlie-tca> but I am not a good art critic, either.
[19:40] <charlie-tca> I don't know what the reason for centering is. It used to be offset, centered towards the screen bottom
[19:41] <charlie-tca> Now, they always put it centered on the screen
[19:42] <madnick> I can try some stuff out and get some comments
[19:42] <madnick> ill look into a xfce logo
[19:43] <astraljava> Aaaahhhahahaha!!! I accidentally attempted to install Fluxbuntu. You know, the sole release from 2007. *sigh*
[19:43] <madnick> :D
[19:44] <charlie-tca> madnick: could always grab the logo from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork and blow it up
[19:44] <astraljava> Damnit, so glad GNOME2 is going away. I _really really_ loathe it when newly-opened dialogs don't have focus in the only field that can receive input.
[19:45] <madnick> charlie-tca: oh you meant like that, i thought you wanted a pure XFCE logo :P
[19:51] <charlie-tca> Depends on what looks best
[19:57]  * astraljava bursts out in tears
[19:57] <astraljava> All my .isos are x86_64, and the test hardware is a 32-bit system. :(
[19:58] <astraljava> madnick: Busy? Can we do this tomorrow? I really can't waste 700MB of my 3GB montly quota...
[19:58] <astraljava> monthly*
[19:59] <charlie-tca> ouch
[19:59] <charlie-tca> Want me to mail one?
[19:59] <astraljava> Well, maybe not. I have an older one on the desktop machine. It shouldn't have changed that much, so that a zsync would eat too much of that quota.
[20:00] <charlie-tca> could be as much as 50%, though
[20:01] <astraljava> Yeah, well, I won't be making the decision on the landline in a week or so anyway, so I'm looking at buying 1GB additional packages anyway.
[20:01] <astraljava> But 700MB would eat one package almost totally, so...
[20:04] <madnick> :)
[20:04] <madnick> No rush
[20:08] <madnick> charlie-tca: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png something like that? (ofcourse, not at ALL like that, but that placement of stuff?)
[20:15] <charlie-tca> something like that, yeah.
[20:15] <charlie-tca> although the xubuntu bothers my eyes, for some reason
[20:15] <madnick> its "glowing2
[20:15] <charlie-tca> What if it was above the login prompt?
[20:15] <charlie-tca> or maybe it is too bright?
[20:16] <madnick> yeah, we need the artists on this :P
[20:16] <charlie-tca> I agree
[20:21] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Target was 44.3% complete... :-/ Oh well, 1GB is only 1.90 €
[20:22] <astraljava> It's still 40+ % better than downloading the whole thing.
[20:22]  * astraljava laughs at the censored version of Children of Bodom's In Your Face.
[20:31] <knome> madnick, DM?
[20:32] <madnick> knome: display manager :) lightdm theme
[20:32] <knome> hmm, do you have a shot of what we have currently?
[20:33] <madnick> knome: i can fix that :)
[20:33] <knome> sure, but can i see what we have now? :)
[20:34] <madnick> yes i meant i can fix an iamge of that :D
[20:34] <knome> aha
[20:34] <knome> right
[20:34] <knome> good ;)
[20:34] <knome> thanks, that would be nice
[20:34] <knome> i think i'm having a not-working login
[20:34] <knome> that's why i'm asking
[20:34] <knome> not-working as in not looking as should
[20:36] <madnick> ok
[20:37] <madnick> here:
[20:37] <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/current.png
[20:37] <madnick> thats the current
[20:37] <knome> ouch
[20:37] <knome> :D
[20:37] <madnick> acctually thats a bit costumized by me
[20:37] <knome> are we sticking with the list-style?
[20:37] <madnick> to use the droid font
[20:37] <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png
[20:37] <madnick> thats what it looks like now
[20:37] <knome> mmh
[20:38] <charlie-tca> What we have is a plain background with a login in the center
[20:38] <madnick> I changed to droids + background
[20:38] <knome> yeah
[20:38] <knome> madnick, what about the list?
[20:38] <knome> madnick, sticking with that?
[20:38] <madnick> i dont know
[20:38] <knome> madnick, what do you think?
[20:38] <knome> i personally might even prefer the textfield more, but for most users, i think the list is optimal
[20:38] <madnick> I think we should do a good version of this: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png
[20:39] <knome> hmm
[20:39] <madnick> Like the logo
[20:39] <madnick> And to the left
[20:39] <knome> i'm wondering if it looks awkward to first have the plymouth theme aligned to centre, then changing it to this
[20:39] <madnick> oh
[20:39] <madnick> didnt think of that
[20:39] <knome> that's not really consistent :)
[20:39] <knome> yeah
[20:40] <knome> so if we don't want to do something completely different, let's just center-align the stuff
[20:41] <madnick> okay
[20:41] <madnick> hm
[20:42] <madnick> if you have a nice idea, i could just implement whats needed to make that possible
[20:42] <madnick> I cannot do graphics
[20:42] <madnick> I dont think that the current box looks nice
[20:43] <madnick> and the computer screen
[20:43] <madnick> it looks a bit "off"
[20:43] <madnick> Maybe we could use the mouse? :)
[20:43] <knome> why don't we just remove that
[20:43] <knome> why don't just use the logo as in the plymouth theme
[20:43] <knome> :)
[20:43] <madnick> yep!
[20:44] <madnick> do you think that its too bright?
[20:44] <madnick> the logotype*
[20:46] <knome> what we have in plymouth, no
[20:46] <knome> that's how i originally designed it
[20:46] <madnick> :>
[20:49] <madnick> So basically, hide users, use the xubuntu logo instead of computer, and keep it in the middle?
[20:50] <madnick> not animate anything?
[20:50] <knome> i don't know about list/textbox
[20:50] <madnick> I had a (maybe dumb) idea, that if we used the foresty image, we could animate a bird, rotation is not a problem programmatically
[20:50] <madnick> knome: okay
[20:51] <knome> maybe use the list
[20:51] <knome> for the password input screen, use the same style as in plymouth pw-input, but naturally lose the progress bar
[20:51] <knome> about the list itself, i'm not sure what would look best yet
[20:51] <knome> i'll have to look at that later today or tomorrow
[20:52] <knome> pleia2?
[20:52] <madnick> okay
[20:52] <madnick> sounds good
[20:56] <micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, aisleriot will be broke in alpha3
[20:59] <charlie-tca> yup, I figured that, since it is still broken
[21:55] <micahg> charlie-tca: gilir filed a bug for the gwibber issue if you want to track it, bug 819519
[22:03] <astraljava> Uhhh... now I understand the pink creepiness you guys were talking about.
[22:03] <charlie-tca> pretty, huh?
[22:03] <madnick> :D
[22:03] <charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg
[22:04] <charlie-tca> I'm guessing they fixed the wiki again. It is very slow again
[22:05] <astraljava> whee! Yay for wiki sluggishness!
[22:07] <charlie-tca> It was good for a few weeks now.
[22:08] <charlie-tca> Got to give them credit, a few weeks of working right in 5+ years is something!
[22:12] <madnick> wow, i stumbled accross a really wierd error
[22:13] <charlie-tca> Really? There is such a thing?
[22:13] <madnick> "No LIGHTDM_TO_SERVER_FD environment variable" <- see, should there be one?
[22:13] <madnick> :D
[22:13] <charlie-tca> I don't know
[22:18] <astraljava> madnick: Not seeing the splash while booting, but there is a splash when going down. While coming up, my monitor clicks a few times, though, so it's definitely trying to do something.
[22:19] <madnick> astraljava: okay, alot of people reports this thing, but do you know if you had a boot splash before you tried my script?
[22:21] <astraljava> madnick: Ahh... sadly, I don't. I didn't watch the screen when it booted up the first time. That should be an easy change, though, right? Just reverting the alternatives?
[22:21] <madnick> yep
[22:21] <astraljava> Let me try that.
[22:22] <madnick> :)
[22:23] <astraljava> Nope, the same clicks, but no splash.
[22:24] <madnick> astraljava: what drivers are you using?
[22:26] <astraljava> madnick: i915
[22:27] <madnick> and they are installed / supported?
[22:27] <astraljava> That's installed by the installer. No idea whether it's supported or not.
[22:28] <astraljava> Hmm... found a bug already. Can't assign a keyboard shortcut for a new command.
[22:29] <madnick> plymouth seem to be hard to get working in all cases
[22:29] <madnick> alot of people getting "blank" screens
[22:30] <madnick> It requires fiddeling with settings to get stuff working :(
[22:33] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:33] <astraljava> I can only imagine.
[22:33] <charlie-tca> That's been a problem for a long time with plymouth
[22:34] <astraljava> Too many things still require a lot of fiddling. Like for one, spotify on my two-screen setup wants to be maximized all the time. Nothing I do makes a difference. It's either on this monitor or the other, but covering up the whole space. Even occupying the space normally used by the panels.
[22:41] <madnick> Cannot get pass this error, i cant just random set an fd :D
[22:42] <madnick> They dont have an IRC channel either
[22:48] <charlie-tca> that in lightdm?
[22:48] <astraljava> Did you try #ubuntu-devel yet? Could give some pointers. Seems like they've died down for the night, mostly, though.
[22:48] <charlie-tca> Talk direct to rancell if he is in
[22:49] <pleia2> knome: *waves*
[22:50] <micahg> charlie-tca: on vacation I think
[22:50] <charlie-tca> madnick: Robert Ancell is the developer for lightdm, he hangs out in either #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-devel, I can't remember which one
[22:50] <charlie-tca> great
[22:54] <madnick> thanks, ill look that up tomorrow, for now: workaround :P
[23:28] <madnick> alot of environment variables are missing, not just lightdm's
[23:28] <madnick> Ill investigate
[23:54] <astraljava> Goddamn that thing is lightning fast!
[23:54] <astraljava> On a Pentium4 even!
[23:55] <micahg> what thing?
[23:56] <astraljava> Xubuntu oneiric.
[23:56] <micahg> cool
[23:57] <astraljava> Seriously, takes like 10 seconds to boot, and 2 to shutdown.
[23:57] <astraljava> And we're talking ancient hardware.
[23:58] <astraljava> I'm sooo going to convert all my other machines, except the Studio desktop. :)
[23:59] <astraljava> And the test comps, for other dists.


[07:01] <fabbione> lamont: ping?
[02:47] <lamont> fabbione: ack
[02:48] <lamont> and getting ready to hit the airport again
[03:15] <jbailey> lamont: bld-5 is updated to 2.6.22-rc6
[03:21] <lamont> danke
[03:21] <lamont> things to fix: 1) get kernel to build, give BenC a patch; 2) fix perl for everyone, upload a fix
[03:22] <lamont> 3) pester lamont to write his morgue script (hopefully on the airplane today...)
[03:22] <lamont> 4) get gcj-4.1 to build, so that gcc-defaults will build, so that build-essential becomes installable
[03:22] <lamont> 5) light up launchpad
[03:22] <lamont> 6) profit
[09:01] <jbailey> 'kay.  So my .config builds on Ben's config.
[09:02] <jbailey> Next step I'm guessing is to reduce the hppa config in linux-source-2.6.22
[09:10] <jbailey> /home/jbailey/Programming/packages/linux-source-2.6.22/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/kernel/futex.c: In function 'sys_get_robust_list':
[09:10] <jbailey> /home/jbailey/Programming/packages/linux-source-2.6.22/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/kernel/futex.c:2260: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
[09:10] <jbailey> /home/jbailey/Programming/packages/linux-source-2.6.22/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/kernel/futex.c:2260: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
[09:10] <jbailey> That's never promising. =)


[16:35] <Mamarok> got my new laptop, no upgrading to Groovy and Kubuntu, they sadly do not pre-install Kubuntu at Tuxedo, it came with Budgie...
[16:35] <Mamarok> now*
 Oh, I am working on fixing that 😸
[16:39] <Mamarok> good!
[16:40] <Mamarok> AFAIK there should have been a Plasma sprint at Tuxedo earlier this year, but Corona happened :-(
[16:40] <Mamarok> they do provide Manjaro with Plasma, but that is definitely not a distribution I wanted
[16:49] <Mamarok> just checked the kernel isntallation: wow, that thing is lightning fast, took about 20 seconds with preparation to finished installation of the new kernel
[18:03] <Mamarok> hm, that tasksel thing does nothing at all, despite me adding the Kubuntu sources
[20:00] <valorie> sudo apt install kubuntu-desktop ?
[20:01] <valorie> congrats on the new lappy
[20:01] <valorie> mine seems to be settling down -- restarted last night, and everything worked for my meeting this morning
[20:02] <valorie> although still not automatically
[20:02] <valorie> still need to use pavu to tell it where to put the sound/mic
 Hmm, I just click on the speaker bottom. Right, then the applications tab, and use the burger menu for each application to select which audio device to use
[20:39] <valorie> I never used to have to do anything
[20:39] <valorie> plug in headset, works
[20:40] <valorie> unplug it, onboard sound works
[20:40] <valorie> that bit no longer happens
 Ah.. So mostly that's true for me too, you running Gorilla?
[20:40] <valorie> i have to mess around with pavucontrol > Audio > special or something
[20:40] <valorie> yes, GG
[20:41] <valorie> even today
 Ah right, I'll shut up, and go test it...
[20:41] <valorie> the first time I plug in the headset, all is well
 {{{{Hugs}}}}} anyways 😍
[20:41] <valorie> but unplug it and system does not seem to know that
[20:41] <valorie> yeah
[20:41] <valorie> If I knew where the bug was I would report it
[20:42] <valorie> that's always the hardest part and key to getting stuff fixed
[20:42] <valorie> in any case, having most stuff work makes me happy
[20:43] <valorie> not unhappy enough to reinstall 20.04
[20:43] <valorie> sec
[22:57] <valorie> grrrr, that made me unhappy - briefly left the computer, came back to gray screen -- even sysrq - REISUB didn't shut it down
[22:57] <valorie> had to hard shut down with the power button, losing the text file I hadn't saved
[22:58] <valorie> no clue where that bug came from but I think it is the fatal sleep one that DarinMiller experienced
[22:59] <valorie> I turned off sleep entirely in the systemsettings but....


[07:49] <fairuz> Morning
[08:37] <diwic> hi! what's the magic git command to figure if a commit is in the master-next branch of ubuntu-natty (and thus will be in the Natty final kernel), or if I have to ask for it explicitly on the kernel-team ML?
[08:38] <smb> diwic, You know you just can look at that branch? git log origin/master-next
[08:39] <smb> (from a natty tree that is)
[08:39] <diwic> smb, right, then I can pipe that to grep. Didn't think of that, thanks.
[08:40] <smb> diwic, there would even be a --grep="bla" for git log
[08:42] <RAOF> I believe there's even a “git contains” somewhere... let me se.
[08:42] <smb> RAOF, You probably mean git describe --contains <sha1>
[08:43] <RAOF> smb: I do indeed.
[08:44] <smb> The downside there is that you need a sha1 on natty maybe still be able to be rebased makes it hard to know that
[08:45] <smb> Actually master-next is never linear
[11:05] <smoser> hey. i just opened bug 752352
[11:05] <smoser> is this expected behavior ?
[11:06] <smoser> it was not listed in the changelog.
[11:41] <tim> hi. is it possible to build the linux-tools package with make-kpkg?
[11:51] <smoser> smb, you know anything about bug 752352 ?
[12:19] <smb>  smoser Could be a security feature... I remember kees was asking about some file permissions recently
[12:19] <smoser> its not listed in changelog.
[12:19] <smoser> and the files are publically available on launchpad or apt repository
[12:20] <smoser> so just plain hiding their content isn't all that useful.
[12:20] <smoser> ie, if i can't read it in /boot i can download the deb myself
[12:22] <smb> Well, I am the wrong person to argue about that. ;) But it makes it harder for automated attacks I guess.
[12:23] <smb> See "UBUNTU: [Config] packaging: adjust perms on vmlinuz as well"
[12:26] <smb> smoser, Is that a real problem. At least for starting instances one needs to be root anyway...
[12:26] <smoser> not a problem for starting anything
[12:26] <smoser> but caused my builds to break
[12:26] <smoser> they assume that they can read contents of /boot
[12:26] <smoser> to copy the kernels out
[12:27] <smoser> they can very easily be root to do that, the scripts just be root as little as they have to
[12:27] <smb> smoser, Doh!
[12:29] <smb> smoser, The reasoning from the patch is that exploits could get the location of kernel addresses from there. I agree that they can have locations prepared per kernel versions...
[12:30] <smoser> so that *is* intended behavior ?
[12:31] <smb> smoser, It was a change that was requested by the security team, yes
[12:31] <smoser> and, by design not listed in the changelog
[12:31] <smoser> :-(
[12:31] <smb> It should be in the changelog
[12:31] <smb> It is at least referenced there in the file
[12:32] <smb> linux (2.6.38-8.40) natty; ...
[12:32] <smb> ...
[12:32] <smb> * [Config] packaging: adjust perms on vmlinuz as well
[12:33] <smb> I am ready to admit that this is not that obvious
[12:33] <smoser> ah. sorry. i looked in the specific binary's config
[12:34] <smoser> oh, and it is there also...  i just looked at the top entry
[12:34] <smoser> sorry for the spam
[12:34] <smb> no worries. There is a lot of text in the changelog at the end of a day
[12:40] <smoser> thank you smb
[12:59] <arand> It seems that the latest -8 kernel makes update-grub not create the subvol=@ entry (for btrfs), are there any changes which could be related to that?
[13:10] <aakshay> i have made small "hello" type driver.. now  i would like to start with desigining drivers for ubuntu. please suggest me how should i start?
[13:12] <aakshay> sconklin, i have read the book you suggested me and tried the basic examples. now please suggest me to start development with community. :)
[13:13] <fairuz> aakshay: which book? LDD?
[13:13] <aakshay> fairuz, yes..
[13:14] <aakshay> fairuz, it gave me the basic idea only.. how to go further ?... :)
[13:14] <fairuz> aakshay: for me the book is complete :D So what did you managed to do until now
[13:15] <fairuz> external module?
[13:15] <aakshay> fairuz, i  designed the basic initialization module.
[13:16] <fairuz> and what did you initialized?
[13:16] <arand> Is there any http acces to the git repos of ubuntu by the way?
[13:16] <aakshay> fairuz,  a simple function... :p
[13:16] <aakshay> which displayed some info like " entering the module"
[13:17] <aakshay> fairuz, means very basic.. :D
[13:17] <fairuz> aakshay: So have you tried to do some communication between user space and kernel space?
[13:17] <aakshay> fairuz, nah.. not yet :(
[13:17] <fairuz> aakshay: so i think you better try that first
[13:17] <aakshay> should i go for that now?
[13:17] <aakshay> ok :)
[13:17] <fairuz> aakshay: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/drivers_linux?page=0%2C3
[13:17] <fairuz> a good tutorial
[13:18] <fairuz> aakshay: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/drivers_linux?page=0%2C0 this is the first page
[13:18] <aakshay> okiez.. i will do according to this tutorial
[13:18] <aakshay> :)
[13:18] <aakshay> okiez..
[13:18] <aakshay> but to run these modules, do i need my own build kernel?.. ;p
[13:19] <fairuz> this tutorial is for our of tree modules
[13:19] <fairuz> it means you just need the kernel source to build it
[13:19] <fairuz> no need to recompile your kernel
[13:19] <fairuz> *out
[13:19] <fairuz> *out of tree
[13:20] <aakshay> fairuz, ok but please tell me something. i am designing all these codes in the kernel directory of my normaly ubuntu i am using
[13:20] <aakshay> i have not built any separate kernel
[13:20] <fairuz> no problem with that
[13:21] <aakshay> ok..
[13:21] <fairuz> you compile a module for a specific kernel
[13:21] <aakshay> fairuz, thankyou so much...
[13:21] <fairuz> if you are compiling using your currrent kernel, then it will run only on the current kernel
[13:21] <aakshay> okiez... but what specific kernel means here?  :-o
[13:21] <fairuz> the kernel that you are using :D
[13:21] <fairuz> type uname -r in your terminal to see which kernel you are using
[13:22] <aakshay> fairuz, okiez... :p
[13:22] <aakshay> fairuz, thanks a lot.. can you please tell me how long will it take to complete with this tutorial? :p
[13:22] <fairuz> aakshay: 30 minutes ?
[13:23] <fairuz> or less
[13:23] <aakshay> ohhhh!!!! .... :D
[13:23] <aakshay> fairuz, so let me try this to complete this in 30 minutes
[13:23] <aakshay> :P
[13:23] <fairuz> aakshay: ok, but you need more time to understand... dont just copy paste the code
[13:24] <aakshay> fairuz, yes..  thanks a lot... :)
[13:24] <fairuz> do page 1 to page 7 of the tutorial
[13:24] <fairuz> aakshay: np
[13:24] <aakshay> fairuz, okiez.. let me start noe itself
[13:24] <aakshay> :P
[13:24] <aakshay> *now
[13:49] <arand> It seems that the latest -8 kernel makes update-grub not create the subvol=@ entry (for btrfs), are there any changes which could be related to that? Also, is there any git http access so one could clone the repos and have a look? (I'm badly firewalled).
[13:49] <tgardner> arand, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git
[13:54] <arand> Hmm, I don't see any http links there, and using git clone http://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-natty.git fails...
[14:01] <fairuz> arand: git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-natty.git
[14:02] <arand> fairuz: I am firewalled and can't use the git:// protocol (unless I go through tor, at 60K/s ...).
[14:13] <ogasawara> diwic: bug 732445, looks like you mention the patch has landed upstream in the takashi's sound-2.6 tree, did you want it applied as pre-stable to natty?
[14:14] <diwic> ogasawara, let me see
[14:15] <ogasawara> diwic: if so, care to just send a quick email to the list
[14:15] <diwic> ogasawara, ok, I want it in
[14:18] <diwic> ogasawara, I think it's already in
[14:19] <diwic> ogasawara, it's just that since Takashi chose a different solution he took away my buglink in the process
[14:19] <ogasawara> diwic: ok cool
[14:20] <diwic> ogasawara, if git log origin/master-next --grep 584c0c4c359 says it's in, it's in, right?
[14:20] <ogasawara> diwic: yep, it's in
[14:21] <ogasawara> git describe --contains 24449f05b663f1984ee6ecdba5a0d2ff2a1e0462
[14:21] <ogasawara> Ubuntu-2.6.38-8.40~661
[14:27]  * ogasawara back in 20
[15:00] <aakshay__> fairuz, am back. :)
[15:00] <aakshay__> understood the coe
[15:00] <aakshay__> *code
[15:00] <fairuz> aakshay__: make it worked then?
[15:00] <aakshay__> but while running , i am getting the error :(
[15:00] <aakshay__> "error: expected declaration specifiers or ‘...’ before ‘sizt_t’
[15:00] <aakshay__> "
[15:00] <aakshay__> fairuz, :(
[15:01] <fairuz> aakshay__: try to debug it :D it should give you the line number
[15:01] <aakshay__> fairuz, its taking ssize_t  as  'sizt_t'
[15:01] <aakshay__> yes its line 17 and 18
[15:01] <fairuz> aakshay__: check your code. You do copy paste from the site or write it on your own?
[15:02] <aakshay__> i took the same code but wrote myself..
[15:02] <aakshay__> fairuz, so that i will learn :p
[15:03] <fairuz> whats on line 16 to 18?
[15:03] <aakshay__> please wait.. let me copy the code on pastebin.com
[15:03] <aakshay__> :p
[15:04] <aakshay__> fairuz, its "http://paste.ubuntu.com/590256/"
[15:05] <fairuz> aakshay__: As i said before, take a good look at the code and you will find it
[15:05] <fairuz> you miss spell something on line 17 and 18
[15:05] <aakshay__> oops!! .. let me check.. ;p
[15:06] <aakshay__> hehe.. :D.. such a silly mistake.. n took lot of time to get corrected.. :p.. thanks..
[15:06] <aakshay__> let me compile again.. :)
[15:07] <aakshay__> fairuz, yipii.. done!!
[15:07] <aakshay__> :)
[15:07] <fairuz> aakshay__: When it says error at line 17, don't look at line 40..  =)
[15:09] <aakshay__> fairuz, :p... i looked at line 17 only.. :D... i was only lookin at ssize_t , not on required variable.. :D
[15:15] <aakshay__> fairuz, its done.. :).. and i understood it well.. please tell me what i can do further?
[15:15] <fairuz> aakshay__: you tried to insmod and rmmod your module? it worked?
[15:15] <aakshay__> yes
[15:15] <aakshay__> i removed the modules
[15:15] <aakshay__> an checked them using the lsmod command
[15:16] <aakshay__> :)
[15:16] <aakshay__> *and
[15:16] <fairuz> aakshay__: you tried to communicate with your module from user space?
[15:17] <aakshay__> fairuz, dont know
[15:17] <aakshay__> :p
[15:18] <fairuz> aakshay__: so you dont completed the tutorial -.-"
[15:18] <aakshay__> i entered the data. it was from the user space then its copied to kernel space to be accessed from /dev/memory
[15:19] <aakshay__> :p
[15:19] <aakshay__> fairuz,  is this was not the concept?.. :)
[15:21] <aakshay__> fairuz, oh yes.. you are right.. the data in the tutorial is sent directly using the "echo" command
[15:22] <aakshay__> there is no use of functions "copy_from_user" and so
[15:22] <aakshay__> :P
[15:25] <aakshay__> fairuz, i have not done the "parallel port" part...
[15:25] <aakshay__> fairuz, how can we make use of the functions "copy_from_user" and others ?
[15:35] <tgardner> bryceh_, no joy on bug #686388
[15:43] <aakshay__> fairuz, thanks for help.. :).. i have to leave. good bye.. . :)
[15:45] <tgardner> smb, do you remember how to skip failing mounts at boot up? mountall is hanging 'cause /dev/md0p1 hasn't been enabled when /etc/fstab is read.
[15:46] <smb> tgardner, typing s
[15:46] <smb> though it might work only with splash
[15:46] <tgardner> smb, k, I'll go try that.
[15:54] <tgardner> smb, huh, it even tells you what to do, but you have to be able to see the console.
[15:55] <smb> tgardner, Sort of makes sense as you are usually in front of it to type the letter
[15:57] <smb> tgardner, This is where I start to like boards with integrated ipmi module. The only thing I have not yet got running is to get the java based graphical console over a tunnel when I am not in my home network. :)
[15:58] <tgardner> smb, I suppose this emerald has that, but I'm just too lazy to get it working. I'll only have it for a limited time.
[16:01] <smb> tgardner, Too true. It was relative simple here as it got its own lan port. The only annoying part is that it only runs with sun-java installed (he graphical console)
[16:19] <JFo> <-lunch and a few errands
[16:19] <JFo> bbiab
[16:46] <bjf> ogasawara, these are probably already on your radar: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/regressions-proposed-report.html
[16:48] <ogasawara> bjf: thanks, I'll browse through em to just make sure there's no kittens dieing
[16:48] <tgardner> ogasawara, no pink kittens this time around? how about green?
[16:49] <tgardner> or is that dyeing ?
[16:49] <tgardner> I can never remember
[16:49] <ogasawara> heh, I can never remember either
[16:59] <tgardner> ogasawara, ooh! I fixed bug #747364. do I get brownie points ? I used the "Won't Fix" club.
[17:00] <ogasawara> tgardner: heh, I'll buy ya a beer in budapest
[17:00] <tgardner> ogasawara, big spender. it'll only cost you $1.80
[17:01] <ogasawara> tgardner: diapers are expensive these days, it's all I can afford :)
[17:01] <tgardner> ogasawara, go cloth
[17:02]  * smb tries not to think too much about the term brownie points now
[17:02]  * tgardner thinks smb is a sick puppie
[17:02] <bjf> ogasawara, i don't know if "fixing a bug" by marking it "won't fix" constitutes a beer, but maybe a 1.80 beer
[17:46] <tgardner> ogasawara, how are your oneiric armel build issues coming?
[17:46] <ogasawara> tgardner: should be fixed, final build is just finishing up
[17:46] <ogasawara> tgardner: I pushed the bits to the repo
[17:46] <tgardner> ogasawara, cool
[17:46] <ogasawara> tgardner: am about to rebase to 2.6.39-rc2
[17:47] <tgardner> ogasawara, which will introduce a whole new raft of issues :)
[17:48] <tgardner> ogasawara, don't forget to pick up master-next commits
[17:48] <ogasawara> tgardner: ack
[18:22] <kristian-aalborg> jjohansen: ping
[18:25] <jjohansen> kristian-aalborg: pong
[18:26] <kristian-aalborg> I've been thinking.... the install I tested my custum kernels on is kind of a mess since I have experimented a lot
[18:27] <jjohansen> yeah that happens
[18:28] <kristian-aalborg> fun times indeed... but it may be a factor in my kernels messing up
[18:29] <kristian-aalborg> or anyway, that thought crossed my mind
[18:29] <jjohansen> yes that is possible
[18:29] <JFo> oh hey jjohansen, you pinged me the other night but I just missed you when I responded. Do you still need me?
[18:30] <jjohansen> generally we try to build inside a chroot to keep the environment consistent
[18:30] <jjohansen> JFo: hrmm, I can't remember why I pinged you, so you are in the clear :)
[18:30] <JFo> oh good :-)
[18:31] <jjohansen> JFo: hrmm maybe it was for a bug nomination
[18:31] <JFo> could be
[18:31] <JFo> if you remember it I am happy to fix it
[18:31] <JFo> or rather approve it
[18:32] <JFo> jjohansen, was it to add a linux(Ubuntu) task to this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/744419
[18:33] <jjohansen> JFo: actually it was Bug #748656
[18:34]  * JFo looks
[18:34] <JFo> jjohansen, done
[18:35] <jjohansen> JFo: so Bug #744419 is not kernel related, we traced it down to eucalyptus
[18:35] <jjohansen> or at least that is the current working theory
[18:36] <JFo> ah hah
[18:36] <jjohansen> kvm runs fine, and this is failing when we put in the maverick kernel
[18:36] <JFo> well, I added a kernel task just in case
[18:36] <JFo> if it isn't needed it is an easy thing to close
[18:36] <JFo> just don't want it to disappear
[18:36] <jjohansen> so for the moment lets mark the linux task invalid, and we can change it back if needed
[18:36] <JFo> ok
[18:37] <jjohansen> JFo: arg no wait
[18:37]  * jjohansen was looking at the wrong bug
[18:37] <JFo> heh
[18:37] <jjohansen> JFo: that one is linux, its the rtl8192ce driver, traced that one down on the weekend
[18:38] <JFo> ah, I just read your comment
[18:38] <jjohansen> it bugs 746751, that isn't the kernel
[18:38] <jjohansen> we were chasing that on friday and the start of this week
[18:39]  * jjohansen is getting confused by having too many bug tabs open in his browser
[18:39] <JFo> I know the feeling :-(
[18:40] <jjohansen> ogasawara: just a heads up on this one too, bugs 746751 appears not to be kernel related at this time serge is chasing the eucalyptus path
[18:43] <ogasawara> jjohansen: cool, thanks
[18:45] <jjohansen> ogasawara: did smb update you on bug 634487
[18:46] <ogasawara> jjohansen: he mentioned it the other day and I've been following his comments to the bug
[18:46] <jjohansen> ogasawara: okay, great
[18:53] <bryceh_> tgardner, yeah, although upstream had alluded to known issues with macbooks.  I wish Intel were a large enough company to employ more than one engineer in their QA department.
[18:57] <tgardner> bryceh_, thats the only feedback so far. is the macbook a regression?
[18:59] <bryceh_> tgardner, upstreams exact words were "Those two patches have been reported by one user to have fixed the issue for
[18:59] <bryceh_> him, but I need a few more testers since they seem to foul up a MacBook (but
[18:59] <bryceh_> then there are more than one issue at play with MacBooks...)"
[19:00] <bryceh_> so, I would interpret it to mean that yes it is a regression on macbooks
[19:00] <tgardner> bryceh_, gah, what a mess.
[19:02] <bryceh_> maybe if Intel can make some profits they can buy that guy a macbook to test
[19:03] <bryceh_> tgardner, anyway I'm thinking maybe we wait until there's something actually posted to drm-next.  These one off patches seem sketchy too often.
[19:03] <tgardner> bryceh_, ack
[19:04] <kees> smoser: yeah, while the /boot perms obviously don't stop someone from just going and getting the deb themself, it does stop some "simple" attacks that will be dumbfounded by the lack of kernel symbols.
[19:05] <kees> smoser: it's crude and effective for a certain set of attacks, and does nothing to stop others. I felt it was worth it; sorry about the breakage it caused you!
[19:08] <smoser> i really don't think it woudl stop an attack
[19:09]  * tgardner --> lunch
[19:09] <smoser> i really can't imagine someone saying "oh bother, i can't read the kernel symbols for this kernel, i guess i wont' insert a root exploit today"
[19:09] <smoser> "i'd have to do a 'wget' in order to do it, and thats really just too much work"
[19:18] <kristian-aalborg> I'm going to install a backup kernel, I need linux-headers-xxx, linux-image-xxx... and anything more?
[20:05]  * jjohansen -> lunch
[21:56]  * ogasawara back on later
[23:27] <kees> JFo: got a kernel regression for you... 731878