[00:07] <naomi__> What program can I use thats like teamviewer? Where my friend (using windows) can connect to me and use my desktop?
[00:13] <petete> you mean like vnc?
[00:15] <naomi__> yeah.
[00:15] <naomi__> is terminal server client the same as teamviewer? like i dont just want to screen share. i want him to be able to do things on my laptop.
[00:22] <petete> you can use ssh
[00:22] <petete> or freeNX / NomachineNX
[00:24] <petete> or krfb
[00:29] <Torch> naomi__: as far as i know there's not such thing as teamviwer/netviewr for linux.
[02:05] <Technicus> Hello . . . I'm having trouble with color scheme settings: I migrated from Debian Stable to Ubuntu 10.10, the /home directory was segrated from / on a different partition so I was able to port over my profile, there were only a few minor issues from doing this . . .
[02:05] <Technicus> . . . one particular problem is with the colorscheme on KDE applications; I primarily use a Gnome desktop with numerous KDE applications, I would like to set the color scheme back to default and go from there, but it seems as though there are setting from before or a misconfiguration somewhere that won't allow me to change the colors . . .
[02:05] <Technicus> I have tried adjusting through both "Application Apperance" and "Workspace Apperance" configuration menus in the "System Settings" application, with limited success, I have also attempted deleting ~/.kde with no succcess . . .
[02:05] <Technicus> . . . new profiles created do not have this problem.  What else can I do to resolve this issue?
[02:05] <FloodBotK2> Technicus: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[02:07] <Technicus> I am not trying to spam, just looking for assistance.
[02:09] <liekzomg> is nepomuk suitable to use for a NAS? bunch of computers with kde and win connecting and adding tags, all i really care about is the tagging
[05:00] <you_> hello
[05:01] <you_> i need some help with the su command
[05:01] <you_> hello??
[05:02] <you_> kbye
[05:19] <kromium> I changed my .profile to define a new variable, but when I start Konsole again, I can't see that variable defined?
[05:22] <Mase_wk> kromium: does .profile get read ?
[05:23] <kromium> Mase_wk: I am not sure, if it gets read in Konsole though. When I run the .profile it gets added
[05:23] <Mase_wk> right but that doesn't help you if it never gets read
[05:23] <Mase_wk> echo something and open a new term / konsole and see if it prints it
[05:24] <Mase_wk> if not then you need to look at the global bash settings ( assuming your using bash ) and see under what circumstances it is read
[05:29] <kromium> ok thanks
[06:19] <noaXess> good morning
[06:19] <noaXess> is FF4 out in a ubuntu repo?
[06:21] <kevin_> je ne sais pas
[06:23] <noaXess> aha: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/einsteigerhilfe-firefox-4-auf-ubuntu-10-10-ins/
[06:27] <_sophia> hey guys, i need to print off a pdf or w.e, so i have to set up a printer. should it just work when i plug it in or will i have to do something(s) special? =/
[06:30] <noaXess> _sophia: it belongs to the printer.. normally, plugin and work.. :) otherwise check http://www.openprinting.org/printers
[06:31] <kevin_> _sophia: most well-known printers will work just fine
[06:56] <pratheep> hi
[06:58] <pratheep> hi every body i'm new's on ubuntu ..
[06:59] <pratheep>   hi every body i'm new's on ubuntu ..  Who can talk with me?
[07:02] <pratheep_> kk
[07:03] <Mase_wk> pratheep_: if you have a question just ask
[07:03] <pratheep_> oh!
[07:03] <pratheep_> i guess not everybody in hear
[07:04] <pratheep_> now i' use gnome ubuntu
[07:04] <pratheep_> and
[07:04] <Mase_wk> pratheep_: for support with gnome your probably better off asking in #ubuntu
[07:04] <pratheep_> just moment
[07:05] <pratheep_> i ' don't know that chalnel
[07:05] <Mase_wk> well now you do =)
[07:06] <pratheep_> thK..you
[09:19] <howoriginalAU> Hi everyone :)
[09:54] <stefano> ciao
[10:31] <howoriginalAU> would you recommend kuntu to a noob?
[10:31] <howoriginalAU> lol sorry :S kubuntu*
[10:50] <asraniel> is there a way i can solve the bug where kmail fails to open kwallet on startup?
[11:56] <||arifaX> I created a user samba and rsync my pictures to its home folder serving a folder pictures for all users via samba (guest access ro). after syncing only user samba can access the files. what to do to automatically allow all users after sync?
[12:12] <susundberg> ||arifaX: Isn't that configured somewhere in sambe sharing settings
[12:13] <katja> !resolution
[12:13] <||arifaX> susundberg: yes, there I allow guest access, thats ok. but since the target of my rsync is inside the home dir of user samba all gets owned by him and samba pointing to it does not automatically allow access
[12:18] <||arifaX> susundberg: I think I found a solution. I can define the user samba as the guest user for samba so it has access
[12:18] <susundberg> yeah i mean file-level permissions are one thing and samba permissions other afaik
[12:19] <susundberg> i mean even if all of the files are owned by samba: -- you can still restrict access for 'samba-user-xxx' in samba configuration
[12:19] <susundberg> i am no means samba expert -- i haven't (luckily) needed that since 2003 ..
[12:23] <||arifaX> susundberg: thanks anyway - seems to work now with  guest account = samba
[12:24] <susundberg> nice!
[12:49] <Elephantman> hi :) I want to upgrade a maverick install to natty. I use 'update-manager -d', and after a long while waiting during the "evaluating changes" job, the upgrade is refused. What's the way around ?
[12:57] <Peace-> Elephantman: natty is not supported
[12:57] <Elephantman> it says the cause could be "Upgrading to a pre-release version of Ubuntu" which is the case, but there surely is a way
[12:58] <Peace-> natty is alpha please do not upgrade to unstable version
[12:58] <Peace-> you could get a un-usable computer
[12:58] <Peace-> bye
[12:58] <Elephantman> yes I know that and it's not for everyday use, just that I need to test something
[12:59] <Peace-> !natty
[13:00] <Elephantman> ok thanks
[13:46] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[14:59] <roinux__> somebody know about ubuntu in spanish (channel)?
[14:59] <francis__> salut
[15:00] <Kolia> roinux__: #ubuntu-es ?
[15:00] <Kolia> !es
[15:00] <Kolia> !sp
[15:02] <seiflotfy__> hey guys
[15:02] <seiflotfy__>  whats aaron seigo's nick
[15:03] <roinux__> thanks
[15:03] <Kolia> seiflotfy__: aseigo
[15:46] <[mors]> hi gentes
[15:46] <[mors]> hi gents
[15:46] <[mors]> the notification popup is accumulating "don't show this again" buttons http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9681493/popup.png
[15:47] <[mors]> fixy fix ?
[16:21] <antonio_> hi...I'm unable to use speedtest.net, because the site is asking for  a flash version 9 or superior. But I think I have version 10.xxx installed
[16:22] <xguru> I created a kubuntu 10.10 live usb stick with unetbootin.  When i reboot and boot from usb drive it says usb drive is not bootable
[16:22] <xguru> I checked in gparted on the drive and it has a "tick" on bootable
[16:22] <xguru> any ideaS?
[16:23] <xguru> Many times making boot disks and this is the first time i have had any troubles
[16:24] <James147> xguru: did you do a md5sum check on the iso?
[16:24] <xguru> James147: yes
[16:25] <xguru> i don't have another comp at the moment to test on
[16:25] <James147> xguru: and you have tried reimaging the disk?
[16:26] <xguru> yes i have deleted partitions.  Created a new one FAT32
[16:27] <James147> hmm, if your already have a *ubuntu install i suggest trying usb-creator ^^ i find that handles ubuntu discs better
[16:27] <xguru> yea, i guess i'll give that a try....i'm on bodhi right now
[16:31] <xguru> ok....rebooting lets see what happend
[16:45] <thevishy> how do I change the background ?
[16:47] <thevishy> I mean the basic configuration in Kub
[16:47] <James147> thevishy: drag an image to th e desktop ^^ or right clcik the desktop > desktop settings ...
[16:48] <thevishy> i am seeing search and launch is that the "desktop:
[16:49] <James147> ahh, your on the netbook version?
[16:49] <thevishy> I have installed install kubuntu-desktop
[16:49] <James147> thevishy: then i think you have to click the  cachew (its the circle thing in the corner... probally on the bottom)
[16:49] <thevishy> how do I make it to kubuntu
[16:50] <thevishy> dont want netbook thingy
[16:50] <James147> thevishy: kubuntu-desktop willintsall both the netbook and full version, and it will use by default the one it thinks is best for your computer
[16:50] <thevishy> how do I make it go for the desktop now
[16:51] <James147> then system settings > workspace > change: workspace type
[16:51] <thevishy> I didnt like the netbook version for Gnome too . I think the regular one is better for both - my pref I mean
[16:51] <him> hay can any one hekp me i not being able to see any new softwares in kpackagekit
[16:51] <James147> him: have you updated the package list/?
[16:51] <him> ya
[16:52] <him> but during update some error message being displayed
[16:52] <James147> him: what error?
[16:53] <littlegirl> Hey there, I've got Kubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx and I'm curious what the little + in the upper left corner of icons on the Desktop is for.
[16:53] <thevishy> thanks , how do I chose the theme now ?
[16:53] <James147> littlegirl: multi selection
[16:53] <thevishy> System Settings - What ?
[16:53] <littlegirl> James147:  Thanks! (:
[16:54] <him> james: some ip connection timeout
[16:54] <James147> thevishy: ... > Workspace    or  ... > Workspace behaviour > workspace    depending on the verions :p
[16:54] <James147> him: you could try changing the mirror you use
[16:55] <him> Jmaes: sorry i am not clear what to do. pls make me clear i too novice
[16:55] <James147> him: one sec :)
[16:56] <thevishy> right what would change the looks of my bottom panel
[16:57] <James147> thevishy: system settings > workspace appearence > desktop theme
[16:58] <James147> him: kpackagekit > settings > Edit Origins > change: "Download from..."
[17:01] <thevishy> my windows dont show a minimize maximine exit buttons
[17:02] <James147> thevishy: when they are maixmised?
[17:02] <thevishy> yeah James147
[17:03] <James147> thevishy: you have changed the workspace type?
[17:03] <thevishy> chat isnt showing but Dolphin is
[17:03] <thevishy> made it to desktop
[17:03] <James147> thevishy: try restarting kwin (kwin --replace) or loging out and back in
[17:03] <thevishy> right
[17:15] <|Flo> hej
[17:15] <|Flo> i am new here and just removed my tab bar panel (windows start panel equivalent). could anybody please give me a quick hint how i get it back?
[17:16] <maco> |Flo: should be able to right click on the desktop and add a widget. the widget is called panel
[17:16] <James147> |Flo: right click the desktop > add panel  ^^make sure widgets are unlocked first
[17:16] <|Flo> kk, thanks
[17:16] <James147> maco: ^^ the panel isnt in add widgets
[17:16] <James147> is it?
[17:16] <maco> hmm dunno. im on plasma netbook so i cant check
[17:17] <James147> maco: ahh, yeah, plasma netbook has a weird panel
[17:17] <|Flo> at least i do not find what i search, the reaon might be that i dunno how its called
[17:19] <|Flo> ah i got it, was hidden behind irc... stupid from me, sorry
[17:21] <JonathonRT> Can anyone here help me before I smash my laptop <.<
[17:22] <James147> !ask | JonathonRT
[17:23] <JonathonRT> I just recently installed the latest Kubuntu, And I'm like a total Linux newbie here, And I'm trying to install FIrefox and Flash
[17:23] <JonathonRT> I can't install either
[17:23] <James147> JonathonRT: how are you tring to install them?
[17:23] <JonathonRT> I've downloaded both of them, And now I'm lost
[17:24] <James147> JonathonRT: delete the down loads... open kpackagekit > search "firefox" > click install > search "kubuntu-restricted-extras" > click install > click apply
[17:24] <naomi_> I'm the same, Jonathon. Complete noob at this geeky stuff. >.>
[17:24] <James147> ^^ that will downlaod both firefox and flash (with some other things like mp3 support)
[17:25] <James147> naomi_: ^^ its not the geeky... its just different from windows :) kpackagekit isnt hard to use, you just need to know about it :D
[17:25] <JonathonRT> kpackagekit is located....
[17:26] <JonathonRT> Also glad to see I'm not the only knowledgeless one here =D
[17:26] <James147> JonathonRT: most things you install you should do though kpackagekit (or some other package manager, eg apt-get on the command line... though it dosnt matter which you use)
[17:26] <James147> ^^ it makes things easier as it downloads install and ocnfiguers them for you... as wll as keeps them upto date
[17:26] <JonathonRT> Alright
[17:26] <JonathonRT> How do I find kpackagekit?
[17:27] <James147> JonathonRT: you might also want to install firefox-kde-support to make it look nicer :)
[17:27] <JonathonRT> nvm, Found it, Also, Alright I will
[17:27] <James147> JonathonRT: it should be in the menu ^^ or you can alt+f2: type "kpackagekit" to have kubuntu search for it :)
[17:27] <naomi_> James my windows is 64bit. Does that mean my linux is too? whats the command for checking?
[17:28] <genii-around> uname -m
[17:28] <naomi_> Oh, sweet.
[17:28] <naomi_> Thanks.
[17:28] <James147> naomi_: it means your computer is capable of running 64bit, but all 64bit computerr can also run 32bit ^^ "uname -m" at a terminal will tell you which your running
[17:29] <James147> x86_64 means 64bit, x86 is 32bit
[17:29] <naomi_> And I've just installed Teamviewer. Does it matter if I'm connecting to a person on windows?
[17:30] <James147> naomi_: it shouldnt ^^ most applications dont care what os other clients are useing
[17:30] <naomi_> Okie. Thanks. :)
[17:30] <JonathonRT> Alrighty, I found Firefox, Click Install, Nothing happens
[17:30] <JonathonRT> The install button sinks in
[17:30] <James147> JonathonRT: that will have mark it for installation
[17:30] <naomi_> can't you just sudo apt-get firefox?
[17:31] <James147> ^^ find the other packages i mentions and mark them for installtion then click apply
[17:31] <JonathonRT> Oh ok, And no, I tried that Naomi, said it didn't have the package
[17:31] <James147> naomi_: its helpful to learn how to use kpackagekit as its easier to search
[17:31] <naomi_> I don't even know what kpackagekit is, lol. I'm not even on kubuntu. D:
[17:32] <James147> JonathonRT: hmm, it should have worked, you can try running "sudo apt-get update" to refresh the package list, then try "sudo apt-get install firefox" again ^^ or use kpackagekit
[17:32] <James147> naomi_: its a gui front end to packagemanagment
[17:32] <JonathonRT> I'm just usin kpackage, I got it goin now
[17:33] <JonathonRT> What are you on, Naomi?
[17:33] <naomi_> Ubuntu 10.04.
[17:33] <James147> JonathonRT: the reason why clicking install dosnt install the package is so you can mark many packages for installtion, then downlaod and install them all at once (when you click apply)
[17:34] <James147> naomi_: then kpackagekit is kubuntu equlivent to ubuntus software center
[17:34] <naomi_> Ohh.
[17:34] <JonathonRT> @Naomi, Cool, I tried it once before, But I looked at Kubuntu and like the look and layout alot more. @James, Ok cool
[17:34] <James147> ^^ but written in kde rather then gtk
[17:35]  * James147 points out that most irc clients allow name completion when pressing the tab key ^^
[17:35] <JonathonRT> James147: Oh hai
[17:35] <JonathonRT> I never knew that
[17:36] <James147> :) and most clients also highlight lines that contain your name ^^ makes it easier to see hows talking to you
[17:36] <JonathonRT> I noticed that one =D
[17:37] <JonathonRT> So is this channel usually this quiet?
[17:37] <James147> JonathonRT: yeah
[17:37] <James147> :(
[17:37] <him> hay James thanks a lot
[17:37] <JonathonRT> WELL NOT ANYMORE =D
[17:37] <JonathonRT> >.>
[17:37] <James147> :)
[17:37] <him> i just being able to get new software
[17:38] <James147> him: so changing the mirror worked i take it :)
[17:38] <naomi_> I switch between #ubuntu and here. Mainly here cause james explains things easy for me. >.>
[17:38] <James147> hehe
[17:38] <him> James: ya
[17:38] <JonathonRT> Ye, he seems pretty cool
[17:38] <him> James: but now i face a new problem
[17:38] <James147> him: ^^
[17:39] <him> James: when i rt clicking on desktop nothing just appearing
[17:39] <James147> him: netbook or desktop version?
[17:39] <JonathonRT> Is Shoutcast compatable with Amarok?
[17:40] <naomi_> James the teamviewer thing won't work. I can control his desktop but when we switches to mine it's just a black screen. He can't see anything. Any idea why?
[17:40] <him> James: i previously changed the desktop theme
[17:40] <him> James: desktop
[17:40] <James147> naomi_: afraid i dont know ^^ never used teamviewer
[17:41] <naomi_> Okie.
[17:41] <JonathonRT> I've used TV =D
[17:41] <JonathonRT> I never had that problem before though
[17:42] <naomi_> Well I'm on linux and he's on windows. He also has 2 monitors. Idk why it's going black though.
[17:42] <James147> him: try clicking the cachew > desktop settings > mouse actions (http://userbase.kde.org/images.userbase/8/83/Plasma_howto-widget-desktop-add-45.gif  << the thing he clicks)
[17:42] <naomi_> Works fine when i use it on windows.
[17:42] <JonathonRT> Maybe there is some OS Confliction issues
[17:42] <JonathonRT> Linux is too cool for windoze to display =P
[17:43] <naomi_> Lol.
[17:50] <JonathonRT> I'm a little disappointed
[17:50] <JonathonRT> All that trouble to get firefox, And it's like way slower than Konquerer
[17:52] <JonathonRT> err, Rekonq in my case
[17:54] <Arkon> a
[17:54] <James147> JonathonRT: :S you should try chromium as well :)
[17:55] <JonathonRT> That the linux version of Google Chrome?
[17:55] <James147> !info chromium-browser
[17:55] <James147> JonathonRT: its the open version of google chrome
[17:55] <James147> (there is a linux version of google chrome as well
[17:58] <Riddell> ** kubuntu meeting in 3 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[17:58] <JonathonRT> Kubuntu meeting?
[18:00] <JonathonRT> Can I open .pdf files already, or do I need to install something for that?
[18:01] <sre-su> JonathonRT: Okular opens it by default
[18:01] <JonathonRT> k cool
[18:01] <sre-su> !info okular
[18:05] <JonathonRT> Back in awhile, Gotta grab some stuff off Windows =D
[18:26] <Kaleidoscope> Back =D
[18:27] <Kaleidoscope> Hello again, naomi
[18:28] <Kaleidoscope> Not used to having to single click stuff on here, I keep opening multiples
[18:28] <Kaleidoscope> =P
[18:29] <naomi_> Lol. Hey.
[18:29] <BluesKaj> Kaleidoscope, you can change to double click in system settings/input devices/mouse
[18:30] <Kaleidoscope> Oh thanks, But it's cool, I like the single click
[18:30] <Kaleidoscope> Just gotta remember it
[18:32] <Kaleidoscope> James147: I'm liking this Chromium, It's very nice =D
[18:33] <James147> Kaleidoscope: it is :)
[18:34] <James147> Kaleidoscope: and the single click is so much nicer when your use to it :0
[18:34] <Kaleidoscope> I imagine so, I sorta like it already, Just forget about it, I've used windows for years
[18:36] <James147> Kaleidoscope: ^^ i now get anoyed by system that use the double click... its a while extra unnneded click :(
[18:36] <Kaleidoscope> lol, Soon I might be like that
[18:37]  * BluesKaj changed W7 click option to single
[18:38] <BluesKaj> but no more dual boots as of today
[18:41] <BluesKaj> I now have 2 linux only pcs...gonna let my friends live and die in windows ...tired of rescuing their OSs from their messes
[18:42] <James147> BluesKaj: :D yeah, its nice not having to worry about a windows install blowing up
[18:43] <Kaleidoscope> I'm dual booting, Because I'm prety new to linux, And I'll still use windows for most of my gaming/Guitar effects =P
[18:43] <Kaleidoscope> I seem to have left a T out of that sentence
[18:43] <naomi_> James what torrent clients can I use? For downloading films and stuff.
[18:44] <naomi_> I used Utorrent and isohunt on Windows. ¬_¬
[18:44] <BluesKaj> James147, it's something every week it seems...I'll monitor wifes W7 install, but that's it, at least til the next disaster :)
[18:45] <James147> naomi_: ktorrent is what kubuntu uses by default
[18:45] <James147> ^^ and fairly similar to utorrent from what i remember
[18:45] <Kaleidoscope> @Naomi, Type torrent into your software manager, and it might find one to use
[18:45] <naomi_> But for ubuntu? Can I use that? >.>
[18:45] <James147> naomi_: you can use all kde applcations on ubuntu ^^
[18:46] <James147> though ubuntun probally has one already installed by defualt
[18:46] <naomi_> Oh okie.
[18:46] <James147> naomi_: ask on #ubuntu for details
[18:46] <naomi_> Place is dead.
[18:47] <naomi_> Nvm. ¬_¬
[18:47] <naomi_> I had the bar scrolled to the top, looked like nobody was typing. >.>
[18:47]  * James147 is suprosed #ubuntu is dead ^^
[18:48] <James147> naomi_: any perticular reason your not using kde?
[18:48] <naomi_> I use the ubuntu software centre.
[18:48] <naomi_> Center.^
[18:48] <naomi_> Idk what kde is.
[18:49] <James147> the desktop envrioment kubuntu uses (ubuntu ses the gome de
[18:49] <James147> gnome
[18:49] <naomi_> Oh yeah, I use gnome.
[18:49]  * James147 suggests installing "kubuntu-desktop" in ubuntu and trying kde (you should beablet o chose which one you loginto from the login manager if you do install it)
[18:50] <naomi_> Sounds like effort. :P
[18:50] <naomi_> Can i install Ktorrent in terminal yeah?
[18:50] <naomi_> Sudo apt-get it?
[18:50] <genii-around> Yup
[18:52] <jonathon> Is it possible to stop it from sleeping every time I close the haptop?
[18:52] <jonathon> Laptop*
[18:54] <genii-around> jonathon: sudo chmod -x /etc/acpi/lid.sh
[18:54] <James147> jonathon: yes, in the power managemnt part of system settings
[18:54] <genii-around> Or that way :)
[18:55] <jonathon> I like the konsole way, I'm tryin to master using it
[18:55] <jonathon> thanks genii-around
[19:31] <anginsan> hallo welt ??
[19:31] <|Flo> hej
[19:32] <|Flo> is there any way to increase the refresh rate for my monitor? it definetely supports more than 60 Hz but the menu does not provide that option
[19:33] <James147> |Flo: are you having problems with the monitor?
[19:33] <|Flo> i just don#t like the 60 Hz, 70 would be more comfortable. also windows supports that... should be possible i think
[19:34] <James147> |Flo: you con notice the difference?
[19:34] <|Flo> definetely
[19:34] <|Flo> after 1-2 hours you notice
[19:34] <James147> |Flo: then you might need to delve into the xorg.conf
[19:35] <|Flo> at least with my screen
[19:35] <genii-around> If your monitor is at 60 and you have fluorescent lights which also go at 60 you get almost like a strobe effect which causes headaches
[19:36] <|Flo> might be that
[19:36] <|Flo> so i need to change my screen
[19:36] <|Flo> but how?
[19:37] <|Flo> going back to windows should not be a solution for that
[19:38] <genii-around> |Flo: Can you pastebin the results of command: xrandr
[19:40] <|Flo> i try, is there any trick with copy&paste? ctrl c is not working
[19:40] <|Flo> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1200, maximum 4096 x 4096
[19:40] <|Flo> VGA-1 connected 1920x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 518mm x 324mm
[19:40] <|Flo>    1920x1200      60.0*+
[19:40] <|Flo>    1600x1200      60.0
[19:40] <|Flo>    1280x1024      75.0     60.0
[19:40] <FloodBotK2> |Flo: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[19:40] <|Flo>    1280x960       60.0
[19:41] <|Flo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/587477/
[19:41]  * genii-around reads
[19:52] <genii-around> |Flo: You can try the method described here: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-change-display-resolution-settings-using-xrandr.html      using for the cvt command:  cvt 1920 1200 75   and VGA-1 in the xrandr lines where they have there VGA1. To make permanent don't edit the gdm file but rather /etc/kde4/kdm/Xsetup
[19:52] <|Flo> thank you very much, i will try
[20:05] <|Flo> genii-around: may i pm you?
[20:06] <genii-around> |Flo: Sure
[20:19] <inj3ct0r> im sorry this chanel is for supoting? can i ask my q?
[20:20] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: sure
[20:21] <inj3ct0r> you know i installed kubuntu 10.10 but when os came up all things were small
[20:21] <inj3ct0r> what i should do to fix it?
[20:22] <gomiboy> small? like small icons, small text etc?
[20:22] <inj3ct0r> small window small icon small toolbar smal smal smal
[20:26] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: try this: Applications -> System -> krandrtray ... right click on the screen icon in your tray bar an lower your screen resolution
[20:30] <inj3ct0r> im a starter wich os do you prefer for me?
[20:30] <inj3ct0r> ubuntu or kubuntu or opensuse?
[20:31] <naomi_> it's a personal choice.
[20:31] <gomiboy> that worked?
[20:31] <inj3ct0r> no i could not find it
[20:31] <James147> inj3ct0r: the great thing about linux distros is they are all free ^^ so you can try them all and see which you like the best...
[20:33] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: it's called also "Screen Resize & Rotate"
[20:33] <inj3ct0r> but all the linux re very similar to each other
[20:34] <James147> inj3ct0r: they all have their own goals and focus on different things
 i clicked it but nothng happend
[20:38] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: right click on the icon in the tray bar now, lower your resolution
[20:40] <naomi_> Is it better to keep upgrading your linux? Like I have 10.04 now.. would I be better off getting 10.10?
[20:40] <inj3ct0r> i right clicked but there were just ADD TO CLIBOARD ADD TO PANEL ...
[20:42] <James147> naomi_: it depends on your goals ^^ 10.04 is a long term support release, it will obtain security updates for a few years yet ^^ it is designed for evroments the relay on stable software...
[20:42] <James147> naomi_: howver ^^ for more people its best to keep on the latest version
[20:43] <James147> as it has newer more uptodate software
[20:43] <naomi_> i don't understand how the upgrade system works. like in order for me to get the lastest version i thought i had to uninstall this and re-install a whole new system, losing everything?
[20:44] <James147> naomi_: no, you can upgrade between versions
[20:44] <inj3ct0r> i rght clicked but there were just add to panel and and
[20:44] <James147> though a fresh install is often smoother
[20:44] <naomi_> Okay, bare with me while I type a long paragraph.
[20:46] <naomi_> I want to run linux alongside windows. I tried partitioning the two, but I din't understand the whole partition thing or how to do it properly so I used Wubi. But now I want to do it properly, partition them both and get the latest version. Maverick or whatever.
[20:46] <naomi_> I have no idea how.
[20:47] <James147> naomi_: I would start by booting windows ^^ it has a disk managment utility that is able to shrink the partitions
[20:48] <naomi_> So I'll need to remove this altogether? This Ubuntu that i'm using now/
[20:49] <James147> naomi_: you dont need to do that ^^ and I would suggest agienst it untill after you ahve everyhting working :)
 there were just add to panell dekstop tool bar what i should do?
[20:50] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: do you have the screen-like icon in your tray bar?
[20:50] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: you should get something similar to this: http://www.indexdata.com.br/Linux/Distros/PcLinuxOs-ID/10-krandrtray.png
[20:52] <inj3ct0r> you know i right click
[20:52] <inj3ct0r> but there were just add to toolbar dekstop and panel
[20:54] <inj3ct0r> gomiboy what i should do now?
[20:55] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: let's start this over: go to Applications -> System -> Screen resize... (krandrtray) and LEFT CLICK. Then RIGHT CLICK on the screen icon in the tray.
[20:57] <inj3ct0r> where is screen icon?
[20:58] <gomiboy> inj3ct0r: lower right in your tray bar
[20:58] <inj3ct0r> where is tray bar?
[20:59] <inj3ct0r> i have told you i am begginer
[21:00] <gomiboy> sure, but also windows has a try bar... are you a computer beginner? You aren't trolling, right? :)
[21:01] <inj3ct0r> yes but i never heard try bar
[21:04] <inj3ct0r> yes i find it
[21:04] <inj3ct0r> then?
[21:08] <TheGentleman> While attempting to install a program (using Synaptic) I got the following error message:
[21:08] <TheGentleman> debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable
[21:08] <TheGentleman> Now, Synaptic was the only program in use.   What could I do and Why this happens?
[21:10] <genii-around> TheGentleman: What does: lsof | grep config.dat           show?
[21:10] <TheGentleman> checking
[21:11] <genii-around> If nothing then just run Synaptic again
[21:11] <TheGentleman> yes, it says nothing... but synaptic was still open
[21:11] <TheGentleman>  i will retry after closing it
[21:12] <TheGentleman> genii-around,  the command returns nothing also after closing synaptic
[21:13] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Likely some update was running previously
[21:13] <TheGentleman> I don't know... I have no other programs running... afaik
[21:14] <TheGentleman> so what could I do genii-around ?
[21:15] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Try installing whatever it was again
[21:15] <TheGentleman> ok, will let you know
[21:17] <TheGentleman> genii-around: same message as before. Could it be a broken installation of something (may be days ago) that I did not notice?
[21:19] <TheGentleman> what else could be locking that file?   btw I do not have any idea what it is all about
[21:28] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Apologies on lag, work required me
[21:28] <TheGentleman> never mind
[21:29] <TheGentleman> while waiting I performed apt-get clean, apt-get autoclean and apt-get autoremove
[21:29] <naomi_> Genii i'm trying to upgrade but it's saying my system is up to date.
[21:30] <TheGentleman>  the latter showed a list of messages
[21:30] <TheGentleman> do you want me to pastebin the output?
[21:31] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Sure
[21:32] <genii-around> naomi_: You wanted 10.04 to 10.10 or so?
[21:32] <naomi_> Yep.
[21:32] <genii-around> !upgrade
[21:33] <TheGentleman> genii-around,  here it is : http://pastebin.com/VgDWurVG
[21:34] <genii-around> naomi_: Sometimes also the file /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades needs to have the line Prompt=normal instead of Prompt=lts
[21:35] <genii-around> TheGentleman: does /var/lib/dpkg/lock exist?
[21:37] <TheGentleman> genii-around, yes it exists but its size is 0
[21:38] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Perhaps to try: sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock && sudo touch /var/lib/dpkg/lock and then see if sudo dpkg --configure -a         works or reports errors
[21:39] <TheGentleman> ok, I will report genii-around
[21:42] <TheGentleman> genii-around, same list of error messages as before after I issued the dpkg command
[21:43] <TheGentleman> something locks that file... but what and why?
[21:43] <naomi_> genii-around: http://i.imgur.com/D2bQ5.png is this right? like i can upgrade even though i'm only using linux on the Wubi thing?
[21:44] <genii-around> naomi_: Yup
[21:44] <naomi_> And how long around does it take do you know? Like will I be offline for hours?
[21:45] <genii-around> naomi_: I find it typically takes 45 minutes to an hour on a DSL connection, but your mileage may vary
[21:47] <TheGentleman> naomi_, I confirm.... but i do not like online upgrades: I had lot of troubles in the past. A clean installation is always better, if you can save your /home or your important data
[21:49] <naomi_> I don't know how to do a clean installation. I'm using linux through wubi. I don't know how to install it properly or partition it. I don't understand the instructions it gives lol.
[21:50] <TheGentleman> well, i hope they have improved the reliability of the upgrade process...  I'm quite sure they worked on it
[21:51] <TheGentleman> naomi: it is anyway a good idea to save important data before upgrading
[21:52] <naomi_> But it's okay to continue just using it this way for now? Like wubi isn't just a temporary thing or anything?
[21:52] <genii-around> !aptlock
[21:52] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Perhaps try the bot's suggestion
[21:52] <James147> naomi_: you can use wubi for as long as you like
[21:53] <TheGentleman> yeah, ok genii-around
[21:53] <naomi_> Okay. I think I'll upgrade this now. Then clean install when the newer verseion comes out.
[21:53] <James147> naomi_: though most people just use it to try out kubuntu before installing it onto an actual partition :)
[21:54] <naomi_> Yeah but i don't know how to do that. I didn't understand the instructions last time i tried to do it. ;(
[21:54] <naomi_> Version.^
[21:56] <TheGentleman> genii-around, It is still locked!  same error messages
[21:58] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Did you close Synaptic while trying the apt-get stuff?
[21:58] <naomi_> What does Long Term Support even mean? Like when they say something will be supported until 2012.
[21:58] <TheGentleman> of course!  ;-)
[21:58] <maco> naomi_: we keep answering questions about it here, and you keep getting security & bugfix updates
[21:58] <naomi_> Oh i see.
[21:59] <maco> normal releases, it's 18mo
[22:00] <TheGentleman> genii-around, if it says a process is locking that file i should find it listed in System Monitor.... but which process do I look for?
[22:00] <TheGentleman>  I am not competent enough to know
[22:01] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Something like debconf or a name with "frontend" in it possibly
[22:01] <naomi_> Okie. And also I'm trying to learn some commands for terminal. Like "pwd" shows i'm in home. then "cd Pictures" and "cd .." is to go back a level or something? but what is to go forward?
[22:01] <naomi_> If that makes sense.
[22:01] <TheGentleman> ok genii-around : searching
[22:02] <TheGentleman> naomi_, you shall give the full path in that case
[22:03] <gomiboy> naomi_: no, it doesn't make much sens, it's not a browser :P but cd - will get you to the last dir you were in
[22:03] <naomi_> Lol. Yeah thats what I meant gomiboy. Thanks.
[22:05] <maco> naomi_: cd .. is like backspacing out the last set of /word/ on a web browser in the address bar
[22:05] <naomi_> Oh okay. So if I'm in /Pictures and do cd .. it take me out of pictures and back to home?
[22:05] <TheGentleman> genii-around,  there is a "frontend" process  owned by root, not using any memory and not highlighted (i guess it means it is idle, right?)
[22:06] <James147> naomi_: cd is used to change directory ^^ .. means the parent directory
[22:06] <maco> like if you do:    cd /var/log       and then do       cd ..         itll take you to /var
[22:06] <naomi_> Kay I get it now.
[22:06] <TheGentleman> just cd brings you up one level
[22:06] <naomi_> I honestly have no idea how you lot have the patience to put up with all the noob questions. I ask about 20 questions a day.
[22:07] <James147> TheGentleman: no "cd" iwth no arguments takes you to your home
[22:07] <maco> naomi_: i have a little brother...
[22:07] <naomi_> Lol.
[22:07] <James147> TheGentleman: it is equlivent to "cd ~" or "cd $HOME"
[22:07] <TheGentleman> ok James147
[22:07] <maco> naomi_: by the way, am i correctly interpretting from your nick that you're a woman? because there's this Ubuntu Women Project that's for supporting/encouraging women interested in ubuntu...
[22:09] <naomi_> I am indeed.. and is that a joke? >.>
[22:09] <maco> no, why would it be?
[22:09] <naomi_> Why would they have a project for women?
[22:09] <maco> i'm one of the... *counts on fingers*... 5 ubuntu developers who are women
[22:10] <maco> because 5 is too small of a number!
[22:10] <James147> naomi_: to help increase the number of females conrabuting to opensource ^^
[22:10] <naomi_> Oh, lol.
[22:10] <James147> naomi_: ^^ and well computing in general :S
[22:10] <maco> no wait 6. there are 6. i forgot the one who's a debian developer too
[22:10] <naomi_> I'm interested in it. And trying to learn everything I can. I'd take classes if I could. :P
[22:11] <TheGentleman> genii-around, do I try killing this "frontend" process ?  by the way, i tried googling for it. Obviously it is a far too common word in computing and it is hard to find what i need
[22:11] <naomi_> BUt what use am I to this project? I'm a noob. :(
[22:11] <maco> join #ubuntu-women if you want to meet the other women who work on dev, support, artwork, documentation, publicity, etc.
[22:11] <TheGentleman> you seem to show good will naomi_ , and this counts a lot
[22:12] <IdleOne> and being a "noob" makes it easier on you and the rest of the team, no bad habits to break :)
[22:12] <maco> (of course, many would say they're "just users," but even telling people about this alternative operating system you're using is of course advocacy and therefore useful)
[22:12] <maco> ^_^
[22:13] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Does: ps aux| grep debconf           show a result?
[22:15] <TheGentleman> genii-around, here it is the output: http://pastebin.com/U1RiLF8T
[22:17] <genii-around> TheGentleman: I think the first one is likely the problem
[22:18] <genii-around> TheGentleman: So I suggest to: sudo kill 1395
[22:19] <TheGentleman> a radical solution...  hehehehe    Ok i will try
[22:19] <genii-around> Then to try the bot's : sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock;sudo dpkg --configure -a
[22:20] <Daskreech> lazy unlock?
[22:24] <TheGentleman> genii-around,  frontend killed (and nor reappeared), bot's suggestion followed.... but again same result!  :(
[22:24] <gomiboy> TheGentleman: just to check: are you using the synaptic as normal user or with sudo?
[22:25] <TheGentleman> with sudo... but now i'm doing oll this in konsole with sudo
[22:26] <TheGentleman> I mean... using sudo before commands, surely not running konsole as supeuser!!!
[22:26] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Well, I'd suggest to try and kill the next one in the list then, and to repeat the other command again, see if same
[22:27] <gomiboy> why? i always have a root terminal open, it doesn't eat children :D
[22:28] <TheGentleman> well, I'm less experienced and more prone to type in wrong things...  ;-)
[22:28] <TheGentleman> so, just to be safe...
[22:28] <James147> gomiboy: running konsole as root? or bash as root? ^^ the first isnt needed and isnt advised
[22:29] <gomiboy> bash of course
[22:30] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Did you try the: sudo kill 1406     and bot's commands yet?
[22:30] <James147> :)
[22:31] <TheGentleman> not yet genii-around ...going to try
[22:31]  * genii-around goes to grab a coffee
[22:34]  * gomiboy shows his empty cup to genii-around and makes a fake sad face
[22:35]  * genii-around pours some nice strong Columbian coffee in gomiboy's cup
[22:35]  * gomiboy happy :D
[22:36] <genii-around> Darn, TheGentleman left. I was wanting to get to the bottom of that puzzler.
[22:38] <gomiboy> maybe he thins to be still on microsoft "reboot and retry" windows (tm) :P
[22:40] <genii-around> gomiboy: I dunno. He seemed like he was game to try and get under the hood to fix things.
[23:00] <TheGentleman> genii-around, I'm back and I'm really puzzled
[23:00] <genii-around> TheGentleman: Is it still complaining about the lock?
[23:00] <TheGentleman> first, I likely killed something too much and made the system frozen
[23:01] <TheGentleman> then after reboot it is exatcly the same as before
[23:01] <TheGentleman> frontend is still there...
[23:04] <Hamra> APT problems?
[23:04] <genii-around> TheGentleman: I suppose you can just remove everything in /var/cache/debconf  directory
[23:04] <TheGentleman> yes Hamra
[23:05] <Hamra> what exactly is the problem?
[23:05] <TheGentleman> debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable
[23:05] <TheGentleman> of course there is no other application running that I know of
[23:06] <Hamra> the error is shown by whom? apt-get? or some frontend?
[23:06] <TheGentleman> i can pastebin everything if you like....  but with genii-around we already tried everything that came to mind
[23:07] <TheGentleman> Hamra, both: it appeared using synaptic, but now also from konsole
[23:07] <TheGentleman> ...obviously
[23:08] <Hamra> is the file readable? did you try opening it with a text editor... maybe it' corrupt
[23:08] <TheGentleman> it's size is 0
[23:09] <Hamra> if you do "nano /var/cache/debconf/config.dat", does it say "input/output error"?
[23:11] <TheGentleman> Hamra, sorry!! it is not 0 now... it was before I rebooted
[23:11] <Hamra> how big is it? and did you try opening it with a text editor?
[23:12] <TheGentleman> well, as said it was empty before, and now yes, i can open it
[23:12] <Hamra> and there's valid text in it... hmmm
[23:12] <Hamra> and apt is still complaining?
[23:13] <TheGentleman> let me try again
[23:14] <TheGentleman> yes, it reports it as locked when issueing sudo dpkg --configure -a
[23:15] <Hamra> does "ls -a /var/cache/debconf/" show any lock files?
[23:15]  * genii-around thinks this could be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debconf/+bug/349469
[23:17] <TheGentleman> Hamra,  franz@franz-Easy-Note-MX51:~$ ls -a /var/cache/debconf/
[23:17] <TheGentleman> .   config.dat      passwords.dat  templates.dat-old
[23:17] <TheGentleman> ..  config.dat-old  templates.dat
[23:18] <TheGentleman> having a look at the bug.... will be back in minutes
[23:19] <Hamra> they suggested "fuser -v /var/cache/debconf/config.dat"
[23:19] <Hamra> to see which program is culprit
[23:19] <TheGentleman> i tried it before... will redo now
[23:20] <TheGentleman> Hamra, fuser -v /var/cache/debconf/config.dat gives no response
[23:21] <Hamra> sudo rm -f sudo rm -rf /var/cache/debconf/* && sudo apt-get install -f
[23:22] <Hamra> oops
[23:22] <Hamra> sudo rm -rf /var/cache/debconf/* && sudo apt-get install -f
[23:22]  * genii-around hands out more coffees
[23:23] <Hamra> i am sorry, first one is... mmm.... coffee
[23:23]  * ScorpKing grabs a cup..
[23:23] <TheGentleman> thanks...
[23:23] <TheGentleman> ok, trying
[23:24] <TheGentleman> wow!!!
[23:24] <TheGentleman>  it worked
[23:24] <TheGentleman> and the installation completed
[23:25] <Hamra> the file wasnt locked, it was just corupt for some reason :)
[23:25] <TheGentleman> ah, ok
[23:25] <genii-around> Interesting.
[23:26] <TheGentleman> well, i am pretty sure that sometimes computers like to write things in files by themselves
[23:27] <TheGentleman> my first experience with such a behavior was back in the '80ies on Win 3.11 machine
[23:28] <genii-around> I suppose something like copying the .dat-old files to .dat may have worked as well
[23:29] <TheGentleman> yup
[23:29] <TheGentleman>  well, I guess I shall thank you Hamra and genii-around
[23:29] <TheGentleman> for your kind assistance
[23:30] <Hamra> you're welcome
[23:31] <genii-around> TheGentleman: What they said :)
[23:31] <TheGentleman> :)
[23:32] <TheGentleman> ok, now i need to discover about mic malfunctions... but this is another story and will follow tomorrow.  LOL
[23:32] <TheGentleman>  bye and thanks again
[23:58] <agnese> helo everyone 8) i have a little problem: i was videochatting with skype and using blender at the same time. The computer totally freezed and didn't respond to any command, so i forcet the shutdown. once i start up it all skype wasn't able to connecting: it took was like loading the connection but not work. so i tried to unistall and reinstal in KPackageKit, but! 8( when i was in order to reinstall it gave me this error "Package skype is virtual and has no
[23:58] <agnese> installation candidate"... any clue about what i mess it up?


[06:13] <nirazio> Can you please add google checkout to payment options for ubuntu one, i don't want to type in my credit card 4 million times...
[11:55] <duanedesign> 'lo all
[13:33] <adorilson_> hi, folks
[13:34] <adorilson_> I'm trying logging on U1 at Ubuntu 10.10, but I got the messsage: An HTTP non-2xx response code was received
[13:39] <adorilson_> Anybody knows why ? Anybody help me ?
[13:54] <karni> adorilson_: majority of the team is oh holiday till Jan 3rd. if you want, you can stay in the channel for few hours -- someone might answer your question
[13:55] <karni> Hi guys! /me waves already from Warsaw
[13:55] <karni> a little over 7 hours on train. not bad.
[13:57] <adorilson_> karni, ok.
[13:58] <karni> adorilson_: in case of no success and recurring problem, please jump in with your questions in few days, possibly after Jan 3rd. I'm not proficient in that area, so I can't help you, sorry.
[13:58] <karni> adorilson_: btw, you're logging in or creating an account?
[13:58] <karni> adorilson_: via MeMenu -> Ubuntu One ?
[13:59] <adorilson_> karni, I'm logging. yes, via this menu
[14:00] <karni> adorilson_: excuse the question, but have you restarted your system since first problem occured?
[14:01] <karni> adorilson_: you could try following some of those hints: http://goo.gl/bgZBS
[14:07] <adorilson_> adorilson_, no.
[14:08] <adorilson_> karni, I'll try now, then. I back soon.
[14:14] <adorilson> karni, good news. the reboot works. :D
[14:14] <karni> adorilson: best IT solution ever ;)
[14:14] <karni> i'm glad
[14:22] <adorilson> karni, ehehehehe. txs for your help
[14:22] <karni> :)
[15:01] <duanedesign> ador...oh wait he is fixed up. Hello karni o/
[15:01] <karni> duanedesign: hi :) yup, plain reboot did the job
[15:40] <duanedesign>  /14
[15:40] <duanedesign> 14
[15:40] <duanedesign> ugh
[17:20] <karni> beuno: you're around?
[17:21] <karni> beuno: I'd like you to test UDFs & Shares http://ubuntuone.com/p/Vwv/ . I only finished preferences, will now do the initial sync screen, so you'll still have to bare with the notification.
[17:30] <karni> beuno: btw in case of failure, please submit logs using the Menu->Settings->Debug settings->Send logs option (debugging is enabled in your build by default, so you only have to check "Verbose logging" to be able to submit those verbose logs, ignore the Hint dialog).
[20:27] <Guest40935> is it imposible to use ubuntuone music store in karmic
[20:42] <burntburito> knock knock
[20:43] <burntburito> is it possible to use ubunuone music store in karmic?
[20:45] <burntburito> i cant jive doesnt use 10.04 my vid card just
[20:45] <karni> burntburito: Most of the team is out until Jan 3. Please stay in the channel for some time after asking, there might currently be noone to answer.
[20:46] <burntburito> ok
[22:30] <avis> i think i have a ubuntu one account but i am not sure
[22:30] <Dr_Willis_> Hmm. My Ubuntu One dir. no longer has the info at the top to sync/connect.  but my Downloads Directory does... odd.
[22:31] <Dr_Willis_> is there a proper way to remake the 'Ubuntu One' dir?


[13:18] <schopin> bdmurray: I have an openssl upload ready, would you prefer that I delay it to monday wrt autopkgtest queues?
[13:19] <schopin> targeted at kinetic
[14:46] <bdmurray> schopin: today is fine, thanks for asking!


[09:32] <ricotz> hi, dmesg requires root permissions now? (running 5.7.0-16.17-generic)
[09:52] <sixwheeledbeast> you can set that in sysctl but no idea if that is default or related
[09:53] <sixwheeledbeast> "sysctl kernel.dmesg_restrict"
[09:54] <sixwheeledbeast> if 0 it's not that
[09:54] <ricotz> sixwheeledbeast, could be an intended upstream change
[09:54] <ricotz> ppisati, hi, did you notice this? ^
[09:55] <sixwheeledbeast> maybe? is it sysctl? I am not running 5.7
[09:56] <ricotz> kernel.dmesg_restrict = 1
[09:57] <sixwheeledbeast> hmm
[12:53] <dsmythies> That dmesg now needs root persmissions appeared between mainline kernel 5.8-rc1 and 5.8-rc4 (I missed -rc2 and -rc3).
[12:55] <dsmythies> I do no tunserstand the change, becuase the sameinformation is available in /var/log/kern.log.
[13:06] <hggdh>  dsmythies: please see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2020-June/041063.html& LP bug
[13:25] <dsmythies> hggdh: Thank you. I had not realized it was a kernel configuration change. I mainly work upstream in the linux-pm group, but steal the Ubuntu kernel configuration from the mainline kernels. In general I check for config differences, but missed this one.
[15:04] <matti> The Linux Kernel Report live stream - https://linuxplumbers.lwn.net/b/LPC-kernel-report


[02:31] <Saw_C13> Spanish?
[02:43] <Saw_C13> hello I have ultimix alesis ubuntu studio usb 2.0 but not recognize me think ... I can not see the mixer in alsamixer , can someone help ?
[03:15] <Saw_C13> hello I have ultimix alesis ubuntu studio usb 2.0 but not recognize me think ... I can not see the mixer in alsamixer , can someone help ?
[12:19] <guitarlayton> have been struggling with getting Jack to work and setting up studio.  What is the most useful documentation source for studio 14.04?
[12:19] <guitarlayton> also should I update my machine old Dell Inspiron laptop to UStudio 16.04?


[04:55] <hikiko> Hi
[05:44] <pitti> Good morning
[05:45] <pitti> seb128, Laney: I simply ran out of time on Friday when I reviewed the SRU queue :)
[05:45] <seb128> good morning pitti!
[05:45] <pitti> Good morning
[05:45] <seb128> & desktopers
[05:45] <seb128> how are you?
[05:45] <pitti> quite fine, thanks! had a swap day yesterday, and met StevenK
[05:46] <pitti> we did a tour through Augsburg, and went to Munich in the afternoon to pick up my wife from work, see the English Garden, and have Bavarian dinner
[05:48] <sarnold> schnitzel? pig knuckles? thuriginer klosse? :)
[05:48] <seb128> ah, nice!
[05:48] <sarnold> welcome back pitti :) I hope travel was alright?
[05:48] <seb128> what is StevenK doing around there? holidays?
[05:49] <pitti> sarnold: yes, uneventful and on time indeed, thanks! and I mostly figured out now how to deal with jetlag
[05:49] <sarnold> pitti: nice all around :)
[05:49] <pitti> seb128: yeah, his mother, sister, and him do some kind of Europe tour right now
[05:49] <seb128> nice
[05:49] <pitti> seb128: and they stay in Munich for a week
[05:49] <pitti> sarnold: absolutely; it was a nice sprint too
[05:49] <seb128> you still have summer there btw?
[05:52] <pitti> seb128: not really, it has been grey and a bit rainy since yesterday :/
[05:53] <seb128> same here :-/
[05:53] <pitti> I hope it gets better for the weekend, we want to do a rafting tour on Sunday
[06:27] <desrt> good morning desktop!
[06:31] <pitti> heeey desrt!
[06:33] <desrt> hello pitti
[06:33] <desrt> another beautiful day here :)
[06:42] <seb128> hey desrt! how are you?
[06:42] <desrt> good... doing some morning cleaning :)
[06:42]  * desrt is switching from debfoster to apt-mark
[06:42] <seb128> flexiondotorg, bug #1580382 seems like one for you ("topmenu-gtk" issue)
[06:43] <seb128> flexiondotorg, I'm just pointing it out in case, unsure if that watch that source but all the reports seem to come from your flavor
[06:48] <desrt> desrt@humber:~$ apt-mark showmanual | wc -l
[06:48] <desrt> 46
[06:49] <desrt> shiny
[06:51] <seb128> happyaron, hey, could you get a SRU/update ready for bug #1574347 (on top of the current one so we can upload once the first one goes to -updates)
[07:03] <happyaron> seb128: work on that today
[07:03] <seb128> happyaron, thanks!
[07:29] <happyaron> seb128: have time to sponsor -openconnect? https://launchpad.net/~happyaron/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/6404038/+listing-archive-extra
[08:03] <Laney> morning!
[08:05] <willcooke> morning Laney
[08:06] <Laney> what ho
[08:06] <willcooke> 'tis misty today, almost foggy
[08:08] <Laney> pretty gruesome here
[08:09] <willcooke> Rained all day yesterday, but still warm.  Good for the plants thogh
[08:09] <willcooke> though
[08:09] <willcooke> The allotment will need some weeding I expect :)
[08:10] <Laney> hoe hoe hoe
[08:10] <willcooke> \o/
[08:11] <Laney> the other day I made a contraption to water underneath the cloches
[08:11] <Laney> wonder if that's working
[08:11] <seb128> happyaron, yes, on my list for this morning
[08:11] <seb128> hey Laney willcooke
[08:11] <Laney> yo seb128
[08:11] <Laney> what up gangsta
[08:12] <seb128> I started fresh and early today, was there for pitti's "good morning"!
[08:12] <Laney> that's exciting
[08:12] <seb128> and just back from getting some coffee
[08:12] <pitti> hey Laney, good morning!
[08:12] <seb128> which was welcome after email catchups
[08:12] <seb128> what about you?
[08:18] <Laney> hi pitti!
[08:19] <Laney> I'm good thanks
[08:19] <Laney> managed to dodge the rain yesterday while on the bike
[08:20] <seb128> :-)
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, remember that usd/upower segfault?
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: I do, yes; on lid closing?
[08:52] <seb128> yes
[08:52] <seb128> that's a simple code reproducer
[08:52] <seb128> 	UpClient *client = NULL;
[08:52] <seb128> 	client = up_client_new ();
[08:52] <seb128> 	printf("lid is closed? %d\n", up_client_get_lid_is_closed (client));
[08:52] <seb128> do that with upower down
[08:52] <seb128> -> segfault
[08:52] <seb128> I moved the upowerd binary here for testing
[08:52] <seb128> but some of the reports have upower taking up to a minute to start
[08:53] <seb128> which I guess is some lower stack issues
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: ah, so this crash comes even before the point when it would crash on a nonexisting lid object? or does it somehow handle that without crashing then?
[08:54] <pitti> so I guess calling up_client_something() lazily does the dbus connection, it's not up_client_new()? or does that return NULL?
[08:54] <pitti> (as client != NULL in the stack trace that I saw)
[08:54] <seb128> the stacktrace might be a different issue
[08:55] <seb128> I get a segfault with the code I just copied
[08:55] <seb128> up_client_new() hang for a while
[08:55] <seb128> then give a dbus timeout warning
[08:55] <seb128> and code goes on
[08:55] <seb128> and up_client_get_lid_is_closed() segfaults
[08:55] <pitti> seb128: what's the value of client? some object or NULL?
[08:55] <seb128> let me check the value, I think it was not null
[08:56] <pitti> that'd be sad indeed
[08:56] <pitti> if up_client_new() does block and shows a timeout, then it already does the connection and ought to return NULL
[08:56] <pitti> if not, we surely need to fix that
[08:56] <pitti> but I have a feeling that's not the whole story with the lid close crash yet
[08:57] <seb128> no, it's not
[08:57] <seb128> #0  0xb7f797ed in up_exported_daemon_get_lid_is_closed (object=0x0)
[08:57] <seb128>     at up-daemon-generated.c:747
[08:57] <seb128> #1  0xb7f7417d in up_client_get_lid_is_closed (client=0x8053f08 [UpClient])
[08:57] <seb128>     at up-client.c:208
[08:57] <seb128> #2  0x080485f6 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfffef34) at upower.c:8
[08:57] <seb128> so client != NULL
[08:57] <pitti> eww
[08:57] <seb128> so up_client_new() returns a non null value
[08:58] <pitti> seb128: do you mind filing a bug about that on fd.o? will look at it ASAP
[08:58] <seb128> doing
[08:58] <seb128> thanks
[08:58] <pitti> so with that, the lid was either a red herring, and those reporters have a slow-starting upower
[08:58] <seb128> right
[08:58] <seb128> which makes more sense
[08:58] <pitti> or upower does start, and the lib later crashes on the nonexisting lid object
[08:58] <seb128> because u-s-d code didn't change since trusty
[08:59] <seb128> there were a few comments on the bug from people who say that upower is slow to start
[08:59] <pitti> as it doesn't check if a lid is present
[08:59] <pitti> seb128: interesting; so ideally it's just that then :)
[08:59] <seb128> yeah
[08:59] <pitti> let's see what they say once we have a -proposed package
[09:07] <seb128> pitti, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95350
[09:08] <pitti> seb128: merci !
[09:08] <seb128> pitti, let me know if you need more debug info, I'm locally testing with a systemctl stop upower/moving the binary away to avoid dbus activation, then using the test code
[09:08] <seb128> de rien !
[09:12] <seb128> pitti, some of the comments state e.G
[09:12] <seb128> "You'll know if the system is hit with this as it'll be much slower to boot and the kernel will spew errors of the type:
[09:12] <seb128> kernel: usb 2-1.1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
[09:12] <seb128> kernel: usb 2-1-port1: unable to enumerate USB device"
[09:12] <seb128> so I guess part of those are also kernel issues
[09:12] <seb128> those users say boot is slow
[09:12] <seb128> but I guess that should be reported separately as a kernel bug
[09:12] <pitti> ack
[10:08] <Laney> pitti: seb128: do you want to reschedule that meeting about de-upstartification?
[10:09] <pitti> Laney: yeah, let's; I still don't have a good idea about how the user session is plumbed together these days, so let's at least exchange some braindump and see how to go on
[10:10] <pitti> Laney, seb128, tedg: would tomorrow afternoon (EU)/morning (US) work for you?
[10:10] <pitti> xnox: ^
[10:11] <pitti> we have the foundations meeting at 1500 UTC, before that would be good
[10:11] <xnox> that.
[10:11] <Laney> pitti: I heard that systemd --user isn't really that ready yet though, so it sounds like this either means going back to gnome-session / xdg autostart /or/ taking on the systemd work
[10:11] <Laney> desrt: ^^^
[10:11] <desrt> talking about dropping upstart in the user session?
[10:11] <Laney> yeah
[10:12] <pitti> Laney: it indeed doesn't replace upstart --session directly, it's aiming for services that apply to all running user sessions indeed
[10:12] <xnox> Laney, so, there are github repositories with user session units and systemd generators for xdg autostart things
[10:12] <desrt> systemd --user _is_ a reality
[10:12] <desrt> but it doesn't do all of the things that we might expect of it
[10:12] <pitti> there's no systemd user instance per session indeed
[10:12] <xnox> and it does work, however lenart didn't take any units like that upstream.
[10:12] <desrt> debian is running systemd --user already
[10:12]  * pitti has dbus-user-session installed for two weeks now, finding a few small issues but it by and large works
[10:12] <xnox> so do we.
[10:12] <Laney> well anyway, I don't know that much about it
[10:12] <desrt> but as a gnome-session replacement?  not even close...
[10:12] <xnox> but it's per user instance, not per user-session.
[10:12] <pitti> such as https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759115
[10:12] <pitti> desrt: agreed
[10:13] <Laney> so if someone wants to exchange their information to me/us that would be helpful
[10:13] <desrt> i think we should do what debian is doing
[10:13] <pitti> desrt: AFAIK they just use gnome-session and dbus activation
[10:13] <pitti> but we moved from that to upstart --user
[10:13] <pitti> and I'd like to understand the advantages that we got from that, and whether they justify maintaining upstart further
[10:14] <pitti> as nobody is doing that ^ right now
[10:14] <desrt> is there some benefit to having processes started from upstart instead of dbus-daemon?
[10:14] <pitti> (and don't look at me, maintaining one init system / ubuntu boot is enough for one person :) )
[10:14] <desrt> the answer to this is surely "yes, but they're pretty minimal."
[10:14] <pitti> I see no benefit for real services, as they just get auto-activated
[10:14] <pitti> it might be for things like indicators
[10:14] <pitti> as with upstart user you can set them to auto-restart after crashes
[10:14] <desrt> and this is where you were discussing xdg-autostart...
[10:15] <pitti> and IIRC xdg-autostart/gnome-session don't have an autorestart thingy
[10:15] <pitti> desrt: do you have time tomorrow around 14:00 UTC to join a hangout?
[10:16] <Laney> and then what of phone?
[10:16] <desrt> i will probably be on ICE
[10:16] <pitti> Laney: oh, no gnome-session there?
[10:16] <desrt> let me check
[10:16] <Laney> nope
[10:16] <pitti> Laney: although on a phone we could actually use systemd --user, as realistically there's only ever one session anyway?
[10:17] <Laney> I should have said unity8/mir
[10:17] <desrt> pitti: in fact, i'll be inside of a plane
[10:18] <pitti> is this afternoon any better?
[10:18] <desrt> yes.  it would be fine.
[10:19] <pitti> seb128, xnox, Laney: ^ what about you this afternoon?
[10:20] <Laney> sure
[10:20] <Laney> you might want stgraber or slangasek for a discussion of the initial motivation
[10:21] <pitti> ok, I'll invite them
[10:21] <xnox> or jodh
[10:21] <Laney> heh
[10:24] <pitti> I sent invites, please feel free to move the thing around
[10:25] <desrt> pitti: 3pm?
[10:26] <Laney> it says 3pm here too
[10:26] <pitti> desrt: too earl?
[10:26] <Laney> maybe set a timezone and it'll fix it
[10:26] <Laney> wait
[10:26] <pitti> it was an initial approxmiation of "afternoon/East coast morning"
[10:26] <Laney> I think my calendar is still on prague time
[10:26]  * Laney looks
[10:26] <pitti> I meant it to be at 15:00 CEST/13:00 UCT
[10:26] <pitti> but later WFM too
[10:27] <Laney> ya
[10:27] <Laney> my bad
[10:27] <Laney> I did wonder when a meeting earlier this week happened an hour before I thought it would
[10:27] <Laney> should have been suspicious then :)
[10:27] <pitti> time zones FTW
[10:30] <desrt> somehow timezones always manage to be completely screwed for everything
[10:30] <desrt> email and the web should have a widget that allow displaying a unix-epoch-based timestamp in whatever timezone the rendering machine is currently in
[10:31] <desrt> (without allowing arbitrary javascript from email to run in my browser)
[10:31] <pitti> not sure how many people would be *less* confused by "let's meet at<PHONE_NUMBER>"
[10:32] <desrt> you wouldn't actually see that....
[10:33] <Laney> the tech ctte does this:
[10:33] <Laney> Subject: Next Debian CTTE Meeting is at date -d 'Tue May 31 17:00:00 UTC 2016'
[10:33] <pitti> hah, nice
[10:33] <desrt> ya.. i basically want a form of this that is capable of rendering itself
[10:34] <pitti> shell injection in email Subject: :)
[11:43] <willcooke> Laney,seb128  "standing excemption for snappy etc" trello card is marked as done - is it really done?
[11:44] <seb128> ah, thanks for the reminder
[11:44] <seb128> I commented about that yesterday but I think after Laney left
[11:44] <seb128> then I closed IRC so didn't see potential replies
[11:45] <seb128> desrt, pitti, Laney, systemd-session meeting wfm
[11:45] <Laney> isn't it about feature freeze?
[11:45] <seb128> Laney, it's about SRU exception
[11:45] <seb128> like being able to SRU new versions
[11:45] <Laney> ok then move it back
[11:45] <seb128> even if they include features and such
[11:45] <seb128> k, thanks
[11:45] <seb128> willcooke, ^
[11:45] <Laney> I've not heard those things called standing exemptions before
[11:45] <Laney> that is a term used for feature freeze exceptions
[11:46] <willcooke> tomato, tomato.  What should it be called?
[11:46] <willcooke> or maybe its not even a thing?
[11:47] <seb128> dunno if there is an official namez
[11:47] <seb128> well
[11:47] <seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Documentation_for_Special_Cases
[11:47] <seb128> so "SRU special case"
[11:47] <seb128> ?
[11:47] <Laney> or just put a description in
[11:47] <Laney> it doesn't matter to me
[11:48] <willcooke> oki
[11:49] <seb128> Laney, does snappy about a standing FFe btw?
[11:49] <seb128> just curious now, since you put it to done :-)
[11:49] <seb128> does snappy have*
[11:49] <seb128> I guess it's more a by-cycle situation though
[11:50] <Laney> no
[11:50] <Laney> there is no feature freeze
[11:50] <seb128> it's seeded in Ubuntu so for sure it's subject to that feature freeze?
[11:50] <Laney> everything is subject to feature freeze when there is one
[11:50] <seb128> except things that have a ffe :p
[11:50] <Laney> but a previous cycle's exception would no longer apply
[11:50] <seb128> like touch packages have(had?)
[11:51] <Laney> they ask for that every cycle
[11:51] <Laney> but haven't actually for the last two
[11:51] <seb128> k, makes sense I guess
[11:51] <Laney> well they asked but didn't get them
[11:51] <Laney> and it was in fact ok
[11:51] <seb128> yeah, they cheat by using their overlay :p
[11:51] <Laney> mostly by ignoring the development release
[11:51] <Laney> or violating feature freeze
[11:52]  * Laney doesn't read the changes list
[11:52] <Laney> best not to know
[11:52] <seb128> yeah :-/
[12:20] <Laney> tedg: seb128: pitti: xnox: desrt: mind if we make it 13:30 UTC?
[12:20]  * Laney would ideally be AFK at 13:00
[12:20] <pitti> Laney: fine for me, just move it in the calendar?
[12:21] <desrt> Laney: so, in 70 minutes?
[12:21] <Laney> ack
[12:22] <Laney> 70 minutes indeed, thanks - moved
[12:25] <Laney> biab
[12:25] <Laney> telegram me if someone can't make the new time
[12:28] <seb128> Laney, wfm
[12:50] <xnox> Laney, i thought we are meeting at 14:00 british summer time, no?
[12:50] <xnox> oh 14:30 summer time now.
[12:59] <davmor2> xnox: now you put this in my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG0oBPtyNb0
[13:01] <xnox> davmor2, whoop whoop =)
[13:01]  * xnox swings his hips
[13:27] <andyrock> morning all
[13:28] <seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
[13:28] <pitti> seb128, Laney, xnox: ready for session in a minute?
[13:29] <seb128> pitti, yes
[13:29] <desrt> pitti<EMAIL_ADDRESS>plz
[13:30] <Laney> pitti: coming
[13:30] <pitti> desrt: invite sent
[13:31] <tjaalton> shouldn't unity pick up newly installed apps automatically?
[13:31] <tjaalton> i mean the search thing
[13:32] <willcooke> tjaalton, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1506744
[13:32] <tjaalton> ahah .)
[13:32] <tjaalton> :)
[13:32] <seb128> what willcooke said
[13:32] <desrt> pitti: not seeing it :(
[13:32] <willcooke> :)
[13:33] <Laney> oh hangouts
[13:34] <desrt> "Trying to join the call..."
[13:35]  * desrt sighs
[13:35] <Laney> I think pitti has to approve it or something
[13:35]  * Laney switched to canonical account and got straight in
[13:36] <pitti> I /msged him hte URL
[13:36] <Laney> it looked like the hangout owner has to approve external people or something
[14:01] <andyrock> hey seb128 fine just finished swedish class
[14:03] <seb128> andyrock, hey :-)
[14:24] <pitti> xnox: ideally we could make these services hang off session-c2.scope (the session specific logind "master unit"), then the lifecycle on logout would happen automatically
[14:24] <pitti> xnox: and I think we have to, as you can't guarantee that you run shutdown code in the session itself (kill -9/crash/etc.)
[14:26] <xnox> hm.
[14:26] <xnox> pitti, but session-c2.scope is system, not user one....
[14:26] <xnox> or can user units be part of system scope?
[14:26] <xnox> i guess they must?!
[14:27] <Laney> look at systemd-cgls
[14:27] <pitti> xnox: not with the "classical" /user session ones
[14:27] <pitti> xnox: but the logind scope is the one that is supposed to group all the processes that actually run in your session, so the lifetime of that is exactly what we want
[14:28] <pitti> this is where it gets fuzzy and where I'd like to confer with the dbus and systemd upstream people
[14:28] <xnox> Laney, pitti - e.g. /lib/systemd/systemd --user is not in a session-c2.scope, it's user-wide.
[14:28] <Laney> how do you get systemd to put things in that scope?
[14:28] <Laney> indeed
[14:28] <pitti> there's another option, though
[14:28] <xnox> use system units, templates per-user?!
[14:28] <pitti> we can run the units as part of<EMAIL_ADDRESS>and bind them to session*.scope
[14:29] <pitti> so that they go down with the session
[14:29]  * pitti needs to test that
[14:29] <xnox> will those have DISPLAY?
[14:29] <xnox> or does display need to be fetched from the session?
[14:29] <pitti> xnox: user units do, yes
[14:29] <pitti> I don't want to use system units for user session stuff, that'd be conceptually wrong and also dangerous
[14:30] <pitti> and you can't make them start as the correct user
[14:44] <seb128> hum, does somebody what part we were cleaning with snapcraft to avoid redownloading the debs?
[14:45] <seb128> popey, ^
[14:45] <seb128> like to rebuild after the wrapper changes
[14:47] <seb128> ha
[14:47] <seb128> "build"
[14:47] <Laney> desrt / larsu / darkxst: do you recommend fastmail?
[14:47] <desrt> yes-ish
[14:47]  * Laney is de-neckbearding
[14:48] <desrt> it's not awesome, but i don't know of anything better
[14:48] <larsu> yes, it's pretty good
[14:48] <seb128> arg, no -:/ that cleaned the deb cache as well
[14:49] <larsu> greg was saying that they rate limit him sometimes
[14:49] <seb128> or not, it's only redownloading the index
[14:49] <larsu> but I assume you don't send that much email ;)
[14:49] <seb128> larsu, "him"?
[14:49] <seb128> larsu, oh, and hey :-)
[14:49] <larsu> seb128: greg
[14:49] <larsu> hi seb128!
[14:49]  * desrt guesses that greg uses fastmail as a smarthost for git patch mailings
[14:50] <larsu> ya
[14:50] <larsu> 500 at a time :)
[14:50]  * Laney wondered which greg but gets it now
[14:50] <desrt> few people have a legitimate need to send 500 emails in a go :)
[14:50] <seb128> lol, sorry I did skip over the "grep" at the stat of the line for some reason :p
[14:50] <seb128> oh, no
[14:50] <seb128> I read that as "grep" :p
[14:50] <seb128> though you were grepping logs
[14:50] <Laney> grep greg log.txt
[14:50] <seb128> :-)
[14:51] <desrt> i'm naming my kid grep
[14:51] <larsu> Hahhahahah
[14:51] <desrt> this is not going to cause any confusion or misspelling at all
[14:52] <Laney> alright, migrating off this shit is my weekend project
[14:53] <Laney> laney@cripps> wc -l .procmailrc                                                                                ~
[14:53] <Laney> 351 .procmailrc
[14:53] <Laney> and porting that to sieve is going to be fun
[14:53] <Sweet5hark> grep sure will marry lil bobby tables one day...
[14:53] <desrt> Laney: i bet there is a tool for that
[14:54] <seb128> Laney, just curious what's the motivation behind?
[14:55] <Laney> too much spam
[14:55] <Laney> and a few times I have ruined everything and made emails bounce
[14:55] <Laney> like the times the disk on the server got full
[14:55] <seb128> :-/
[14:55] <Laney> or the times that dspam crashed
[14:55] <Laney> which makes mail get rejected
[14:55] <Laney> So Good
[14:56] <Laney> it's a really boring problem to have to solve
[14:56] <seb128> yeah :-/
[14:57] <Laney> and if my server is no longer doing email then I might actually upgrade it off wheezy /o\
[14:59] <popey> seb128: i installed apt-cacher-ng in the end
[14:59] <popey> but snapcraft clean <partname>
[14:59] <seb128> popey, right, I remembered, "pull" is the part I don't want to clean, so doing a "clean build" works fine
[15:01] <popey> oooh
[15:01] <popey> learned something today
[15:01] <popey> thanks
[15:19] <seb128> popey, yw!
[15:32] <seb128> pitti, how does the systemd suspend delay inhibit thing works? is it up to the processes to say when they are done/let the system suspend?
[15:33] <pitti> seb128: yes, as otherwise you can't predict when they are done with whatever they need to do before suspend
[15:34] <pitti> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/inhibit/
[15:34] <seb128> pitti, k, I'm looking a bit a bug #1574120, my guess is that one of the process has to no give the lock back ... I wonder if a "sleep 10; systemd-inhibit" call would tell us which one, just asked on the bug
[15:34] <pitti> seb128: the process tells that it's done by closing an fd that you got from the Inhibit() call (so taht the inhibitor goes away when the process crashes)
[15:34] <seb128> k
[15:35] <seb128> so if one process is misbehaving it could make suspend not happen
[15:35] <seb128> though why it work when selecting directly the item then?
[15:36] <seb128> also InhibitDelayMaxSec defaults to 5s
[15:36] <seb128> that's probably not it :-/
[15:36] <pitti> seb128: it might mis-detect that there is an external monitor?
[15:37] <pitti> suspend only happens with the internal monitor, if you have an external one or docked lid close doesnt' do anything
[15:37] <pitti> (on purpose)
[15:37] <seb128> pitti, is there any command that would tall that? there is no multimonitor suspend lock from u-s-d and xrandr doesn't list one
[15:37] <seb128> unsure how to poke the systemd state though
[15:38] <seb128> or how systemd check if there is one
[15:38] <pitti> seb128: this isn't done via delays, but via  blocks
[15:38] <pitti> some of the submitters have a block, but not all of them AFAIR
[15:38] <seb128> pitti, right, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1574120/comments/38
[15:38] <seb128> that's the one I 'm looking at
[15:38] <seb128> there is no block
[15:39] <pitti> so it could be that logind itself detects an external monitor and doesn't suspend by default
[15:39] <seb128> right
[15:39] <seb128> how would one tell if that's the case?
[15:39] <seb128> do you know where systemd would look to tell if there is an external monitor?
[15:42] <pitti> seb128: /sys/class/drm/ basically
[15:43] <pitti> it removes the first cardN-, then  checks
[15:43] <pitti>                 FOREACH_STRING(i, "VGA-", "DVI-I-", "DVI-D-", "DVI-A-"
[15:43] <pitti>                                "Composite-", "SVIDEO-", "Component-",
[15:43] <pitti>                                "DIN-", "DP-", "HDMI-A-", "HDMI-B-", "TV-") {
[15:43] <pitti>                         if (startswith(dash, i)) {
[15:43] <pitti>                                 external = true;
[15:44] <pitti> seb128: enabling debug (systemd-analyze set-log-level debug) and then closing the lid should show that
[15:44] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[15:44] <pitti>                 log_debug("System is docked.");
[15:44] <pitti>                 log_debug("External (%i) displays connected.", n);
[15:44] <pitti> seb128: so an ls of /sys/class/drm plus debug output would be insightful
[15:48] <seb128> pitti, thanks, asked that on the bug
[17:07] <Laney> night!
[17:07] <willcooke> see ya Laney
[17:09] <seb128> night Laney
[17:09] <willcooke> dinner. bbl
[17:11] <seb128> pitti, waiting for the systemd debug but drm has "card0 card0-LVDS-1 controlD64 ttm" and only the one is "enabled"
[18:37] <seb128> pitti, he added a journalctl | grep systemd log on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/259010581/somekindoflog.log
[18:38] <seb128> there are lid closed/opened event without anything printed in between :-/
[19:53] <willcooke> night all
[22:27] <robert_ancell> ximion1, hi
[22:30] <ximion> robert_ancell: hi!
[22:30] <robert_ancell> ximion, been hacking on paid app support for G-S. Do you see this as something that should be in appstream?
[22:31] <robert_ancell> ximion, It mostly requires attaching a price to an app. This wouldn't be added in the appstream file in the source, but in the service that compiles these together.
[22:31] <ximion> robert_ancell: depends... What kind of metadata would you need?
[22:32]  * robert_ancell struggles for the right terms :)
[22:32] <ximion> jup - problem I see there is that the price can to be changed anymore then, as soon as the metadata is published
[22:32] <ximion> it can only be changed by doing a new release to a different suite
[22:33] <ximion> at least if you're talking about paying for .deb packages
[22:33] <ximion> if there is a different system providing the metadata, it could of course be updated more frequently
[22:33] <robert_ancell> Yes, and it probably should because getting old prices is bad
[22:33]  * ximion isn't against adding a <price currency="eur">10</price> tag to metainfo and distro-metadata files
[22:34] <robert_ancell> that's basically it.
[22:34] <robert_ancell> and perhaps <allows-donations>true</allows-donations>
[22:35] <robert_ancell> ximion, for snapd it's not appstream so I don't need to solve this right now, but worth thinking about for the future / other projects.
[22:37] <ximion> robert_ancell: yeah, we had that discussion over at #PackageKit regarding Snappy using AppStream
[22:38] <ximion> rejecting it for political reasons will hurt you later, and I honestly think it's a short-sighted bad decision
[22:40] <ximion> robert_ancell: for donations, we already have an URL type which many upstreams use: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-Metadata.html#tag-url
[22:40] <ximion> unfortunately, GS doesn't show this link
[22:40] <ximion> I think the designers or legal teams didn't like it, but I am not sure about the exact reason for that
[22:40] <ximion> (it's basically just another URL)
[22:41] <robert_ancell> right
[22:42] <ximion> I'd like some feedback from hughsie on the price thing...
[22:42] <ximion> at time I think the currency-issue would be a problem
[22:42] <ximion> standardizing it one one currency won't work, but having a huge enum of all the currencies in the world wouldn't cut it either
[22:43] <ximion> worse, we would need to do currency conversion in the SCs
[22:45] <robert_ancell> ximion, in the case of snappy, an app has multiple prices - one for each currency it supports
[22:45] <robert_ancell> snapd suggests which currency you should use (locale + account preferences)
[22:46] <robert_ancell> the currency code is a string using ISO 4217
[22:47] <ximion> sounds reasonable
[22:47] <robert_ancell> If the app didn't have the currency you pay with, the conversion would be done by the payment processor
[22:47] <ximion> this would need to go into metainfo files, so upstreams can set a price
[22:47] <robert_ancell> It would be too hard / dangerous to try and solve this in the UI
[22:48] <ximion> agreed, that was my concern with it
[22:48] <robert_ancell> ximion, well, I don't think upstreams can set a price because you're not going to be able to pay them directly - the money will have to go to a store and then be redistributed to each upstream
[22:48] <robert_ancell> that's where I think the prices would have to be added in the service that compiles the appstream together. i.e. Launchpad in the case of Ubuntu
[22:49] <robert_ancell> And each distribution could offer different prices
[22:49] <ximion> robert_ancell: shouldn't upstream offer a price estimate?
[22:49] <ximion> and would the distributor only ship one price per app?
[22:50] <ximion> s/price/currency-price-combo/
[22:50] <robert_ancell> ximion, well, the upstream could put a price and then the distributor could allow that price through if it had a relationship with the upstream / means of paying
[22:50] <robert_ancell> The downside is you couldn't change the price quickly which is what is required for sales.
[22:51] <robert_ancell> The norm seems to be one price per target market (USD/EUR etc)
[22:52] <ximion> robert_ancell: well, appstream-generator always treats the metainfo file as suggestion, not as the final word ;-)
[22:52] <robert_ancell> ok, good
[22:53] <robert_ancell> yeah, it would probably make sense for upstream to start the price there (though the docs would need to be appropriately worded as to what exactly that means)
[22:53] <ximion> robert_ancell: since frozen/released suites can't get new AppStream data, that would mean all stuff in there would have a fixed price
[22:53] <ximion> (unchangeable even)
[22:53] <robert_ancell> that's the downside of appstream...
[22:53] <robert_ancell> it's less streamy than the name suggests
[22:54] <ximion> well, that's more a property of the distro release process
[22:54] <ximion> technically, updating the data would be no problem :)
[22:54] <robert_ancell> ximion, so the appstream data could be changed for released distros
[22:54] <robert_ancell> Might not be very efficient if it constantly changes though
[22:55] <ximion> it *could* but since Launchpad doesn't allow any changes for released suites, this won't work
[22:55] <ximion> but if they payed apps are in a different repo, that would work
[22:55] <ximion> and I think this is what will happen, right?
[22:56] <robert_ancell> ximion, we're only supporting snaps but yeah, the old paid .deb support was in separate repos
[22:56] <ximion> I think that would be no problem then
[22:56] <ximion> hmm, I wonder if asgen would allow a Snappy backend...
[22:58] <ximion> it was designed for distro packages, but backends actually don't do much - they emit file lists and some basic package metadata


[00:59] <persia> good morning
[01:09] <davidm> good morning
[02:50] <emgent> morning
[06:37] <dholbach> good morning
[06:38] <emgent> morning dholbach :)
[06:39] <dholbach> hi emgent
[07:57] <asac> bah, moblin admins dont like my new ssh keys :(
[14:45] <persia> mterry: On the other hand, having an update so cheese didn't crash in hardy for the PPA would be great :)
[14:45] <mterry> persia: The UME PPA?
[14:46] <persia> mterry: I believe so, unless someone says that it's frozen for release.
[14:46] <persia> My understanding is that it's still collecting fixes for the Ubuntu-Mobile Hardy release.
[14:46] <persia> So, for Ubuntu-Desktop, there's no need to push an update, as it's hard to break.
[14:46] <persia> For Ubuntu-Mobile it always crashes, which isn't ideal.
[14:47] <persia> Of course, I may be mistaken, and would welcome correction in that case :)
[14:48] <lool> persia: He can probably push via hardy-updates anyway
[14:48] <lool> Which would benefit everybody, not just UME
[14:48] <persia> lool: Do you think the SRU team will approve?  I'm good if you do, I just think it might be harder.
[14:48] <lool> Just like that libsdl-mixer1.2 dep fix I prepared
[14:48] <lool> persia: I know SRU requirements have been relaxed for GNOME 2.22.2
[14:48] <lool> And it's part of GNOME 2.22.2
[14:48] <persia> lool: OK.
[14:49] <lool> So the additional patch to fix the crash seems fine to push at the same time, even if it's not in 2.22.2
[14:50] <persia> mterry: My apologies.  lool is very likely more correct.
[14:50] <mterry> lool, persia: OK, so I provided a debdiff against hardy.  Do I now add the appropriate ubuntu-main-sponsor?
[14:51] <lool> persia: BTW I discussed relaxed SRU rules for mobile stuff too, and the conclusion was that we're welcome to push UME stuff via SRUs of hardy packages /if/ there's already a regular SRU in the pipe for them: this ensures that we get double testing for such updates
[14:51]  * mterry reads https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[14:51] <lool> mterry: Yes; did you also prepare 2.22.2 at the same time, or just added the patch?
[14:52] <persia> mterry: You'll also need to provide a Test Case in the bug description for verification.  Personally, I'd suggest subscribing ubuntu-sru first to get an ack before you seek a sponsor.
[14:52] <mterry> lool: I just added the patch
[14:52] <persia> mterry: You might want to batch it up with other stuff if we're trying to mask it under the general 2.22.2 update :)
[14:52] <lool> mterry: I think it's safest to ask seb128 for guidance; he has been doing the GNOME 2.22.2 uploads, and is likely to ultimately tell you how to best proceed
[14:52] <lool> He'll probably push cheese back at me as I sponsored the latest uploads
[14:53] <mterry> persia: :)
[14:53] <lool> mterry: Would be best to prepare a 2.22.2 + patch SRU instead of preparing two SRUs
[14:53] <mterry> lool: k
[14:53] <lool> A SRU just for the about dialog in hildon is a bit much perhaps
[14:53] <lool> Oh like persia just said; ignore me
[14:53] <persia> That was why I was thinking it was a PPA candidate fix :)
[14:53] <lool> Indeed
[15:09] <ogra> yay, another channel :)
[15:15] <asac> welcome ogra :)
[15:16] <ogra> :)
[16:55] <lool> GrueMaster: Could you enable hardy-proposed on a target device and verify you're happy with the libsdl-mixer1.2 update which adds the libvorvisfile3 dep?
[16:55] <lool> GrueMaster: If you're happy, comment on the bug as to allow the proposed update to enter official updates
[16:56] <GrueMaster> Ok.  How should I do this?  I have RC1 installed, should I do an update?
[16:56] <GrueMaster> Or build a new image?
[16:56] <lool> mterry: Concerning LP #223697: this is technically a bug in UME; your proposed fix to add a package to a fset is not the way we usually add packages to UME: instead we prefer listing them in so called seeds
[16:57] <mterry> lool: seeds, ok.  How is that controlled?
[16:57] <lool> mterry: At this point of the release cycle, I'm not sure we should take the risk to add too much to the seed, but if you're confident with the fix, we could do it
[16:57] <mterry> lool: I'm confident
[16:58] <lool> mterry: The seed we used is in bzr, lp:~ubunt-mobile/ubuntu-seeds/mobile.hardy; you technically have write access there if you're in the u-m team, but you might want to touch base with StevenK if this might end up pulling many packages
[16:58] <lool> mterry: I'm confident that this will fix the bug too, what I'm less confortable with is: by how much will the images increase?  and is yelp nice enough to run in UME?
[16:59] <lool> GrueMaster: You may simply enable the repo, apt-get update, apt-get upgrade
[16:59] <mterry> lool: apt-get said 15M more
[16:59] <lool> GrueMaster: or use update-manager
[16:59] <GrueMaster> ok
[17:00] <lool> mterry: 15 MB is significant, it might be a problem for your customer as well
[17:00] <mterry> lool: Regarding if yelp is nice enough to run in UME, anything is arguably better than Help->Contents silently failing or giving an error message
[17:00] <mterry> I suppose we could take out the Help buttons  :)
[17:00] <lool> Well we could remove the help link too :)
[17:00] <lool> Yes :)
[17:02] <GrueMaster> lool:  where's the update manager?  I don't think it was in the RC.
[17:03] <lool> GrueMaster: It might have been added just after RC indeed; you should get it by updating too then
[17:06] <GrueMaster> hmmm.  No results from apt-get update;apt-get upgrade on RC1.
[17:06] <GrueMaster> Let me clean install.
[17:07] <lool> Oh hold on, RC1 is against snapshots, not snapshots+ppa
[17:07] <lool> GrueMaster: Add the hardy-proposed repo to your sources.list from ports.ubuntu.com and you should get the libsdl-mixer1.2 update
[17:07] <lool> For update-manager, add the ppa to your sources.list
[17:08] <mterry> kyleN: Do we have a plan for translating application help files for acton?
[17:08] <kyleN> mterry: no
[17:09] <mterry> kyleN: Is it something we need to do, or did we want to disable Help buttons in the UI?
[17:09] <GrueMaster> ok.  hold a sec.  Refreshing base image (reformatting sda2).
[17:11] <kyleN> mterry: shall we discuss acton elsewhere?
[17:11] <mterry> kyleN: OK :)
[17:11] <StevenK> GrueMaster: You don't need to clean install
[17:12] <StevenK> GrueMaster: RC1 is built against the snapshot, so it won't see new packages. Change the sources.list and related files, and upgrade
[17:12] <GrueMaster> Actually, I do, as I had other stuff (including libvorbisfile) installed.
[17:12] <GrueMaster> Doing that now.
[17:12] <StevenK> Well, okay
[17:12] <StevenK> In any case, I really need sleep.
[17:24] <lool> StevenK: 'night
[17:25] <GrueMaster> night, StevenK.  Thanks.
[17:41] <asac> anyone can test that mobile-basic flash still works with latest hardy-proposed packages? need that to verify the libnss update bug
[17:41] <asac> (i doubt that its broken, but mobile-basic-flash is rdepends of libxul0d which is rdepends of libnss3-1d
[17:41] <asac> )
[17:41] <asac> thanks!
[18:08] <GrueMaster> lool: ping - not sure how best to test the sdl-mixer fix.  I've tried replacing the /etc/apt/sources.list* files with a daily ppa build set and running apt-get update;apt-get upgrade, but nothing shows up.  I also added hardy-proposed, and now I get libsdl-mixer1.2 is held back.
[18:09] <lool> GrueMaster: apt-cache policy libsdl-mixer1.2?
[18:09] <lool> (paste.ubuntu.com)
[18:10] <lool> GrueMaster: What you want is adding something like this somewhere in your sources.list:
[18:10] <lool> # hardy-proposed
[18:10] <lool> Then apt-get update
[18:10] <lool> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-proposed main restricted
[18:10] <lool> apt-cache policy libsdl-mixer1.2 should then list a 1.2.8-1ubuntu0.1 version
[18:10] <GrueMaster> yes, I have that.
[18:11] <lool> Ok "apt-get install libsdl-mixer1.2"
[18:11] <lool> Should install this new package and only that
[18:11] <lool> (well and it should pull libvorbisfile)
[18:12] <GrueMaster> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16435
[18:13] <lool> What happens with the apt-get install libsdl-mixer1.2?
[18:13] <GrueMaster> yes, that works.
[18:13] <GrueMaster> It pulls libvorbisfile3.
[18:14] <lool> GrueMaster: So I think this should be enough to consider your bug fixed; do you agree?  Could you comment that the package in -proposed fixed the bug for you?
[18:14] <GrueMaster> Question:  Is there a way to find out what else depends on libvorbisfile3?  It is installed on my Hardy desktop system.
[18:15] <lool> GrueMaster: apt-cache rdepends libvorbisfile3
[18:15] <GrueMaster> ok
[18:17] <GrueMaster> I think I'm starting to understand.  We're just adding another dependency listing.
[18:21] <GrueMaster> Launchpad updated.  Thanks.
[18:22] <lool> GrueMaster: Will migrade from -proposed to -updates after 10 days in -proposed now that you confirmed it
[18:23] <GrueMaster> ok.  That will miss the RC2 target, though (I think).
[18:25] <lool> Yes
[18:25] <lool> But will appear as a stable update
[18:25] <GrueMaster> ok
[18:55] <mterry> tremolux: What do you use to edit the gtkbuilder files in cheese?  some version of glade-3?
[19:07] <lool> asac: I see you uploaded a lanpack to the ppa; how do these work?  I only see one of them, but I guess we need one per language?
[19:21] <tremolux> mterry: I didn't need to edit the gtkbuilder files actually
[20:42] <asac> lool: that was a urgency langpack
[20:43] <asac> lool: we should integrate it in langpack-o-matic so every locale available gets shipped in -gnome
[21:25] <mterry> asac: I have a change for midbrowser I'd like you to look at.  Can you check out LP #223891?
[22:10] <emgent> heya
[22:41] <GrueMaster> Just out of curiosity, is googleearth available in any of the ubuntu repositories?