[02:42] <emma> Hi.
[02:42] <nhandler> Hi emgent
[02:42] <nhandler> * emma
[02:43] <emma> Out of curiosity how come ubuntu comes with pulseaudio but not with pavucontrol ?
[02:43] <emma> hi there nhandler
[02:44] <nhandler> Well, for one thing, pavucontrol is in universe.
[02:45] <emma> nhandler: have you also found that pulseaudio is fragile and difficult to understand?
[02:46] <emma> maybe it isn't working correctly because only some of its components are installed?
[02:47] <emma> (I don't really know. I'm just trying to figure it out)
[02:47] <nhandler> emma: I really don't play much music/movies, so I don't deal with pulseaudio much. I'm also on a live cd right now, so I haven't had a chance to see how it is in jaunty
[02:47] <emma> That's cool.
[02:47]  * calc gets to learn git today
[02:48] <calc> apparently gnome switched to git, so ooo-build did as well and moved to freedesktop.org in the process
[02:51] <emma> nhandler: There are some applications that are going to touch upon the ordinary users experience so much that I think in order to make Ubuntu a consistently attractive product, they really need to be given special attention.
[03:03] <TheMuso> calc: Yeah I think we need someone from the kernel team like apw to give a good git session at UDS etc, since he knows it extremely well.
[03:11] <calc> TheMuso: yea that would be helpful i think
[03:23]  * calc is finally happy with his OOo bug numbers now: 87.56% 84.98% 98.62%
[04:45] <calc> asac: should i tag bug 341940 as RC, you mentioned something about it might should be RC when i filed it originally...
[04:46] <calc> asac: also bug 341803 is still marked incomplete but i think i provided all the parts you wanted?
[05:05] <calc> is there a known issue with nautilus on live cd spawning windows infinitely
[05:12] <calc> pitti: ping
[05:12] <calc> pitti: is bug 325973 supposed to happen immediately on boot of a live cd?
[05:12] <calc> pitti: i saw you intending to release beta with this bug and wanted to make sure you realize at least some people see this on a completely stock boot of a live cd
[05:13] <calc> pitti: some people including me ;-)
[05:13] <calc> pitti: according to that bug show_desktop needs to be disabled for the bug to show up, is that default behavior now on the live cd's?
[07:28] <slangasek> hrm.  is there a way to push a stacked branch on LP that has a sane point of reference to the LP branch it was based on, instead of the original import branch?
[07:30] <wgrant> slangasek: --stacked-on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~path/to/branch
[07:30] <slangasek> ah
[07:30] <wgrant> (note that that will only work for public branches)
[07:30] <slangasek> yeah; I hadn't had much luck finding the right syntax
[07:30] <slangasek> since there are so many ways to refer to LP branches, and none of the others seem to work. :)
[07:31] <wgrant> lp: won't work because it's probably resolved client-side.
[07:31] <wgrant> bzr+ssh: won't work because it requires auth.
[07:31] <slangasek> heh, of course, now that I try it bzr tells me the source branch doesn't support stacking
[07:31] <wgrant> That's fine.
[07:31] <wgrant> Or should be.
[07:32] <slangasek> bzr: ERROR: KnitRepository('http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/hal/ubuntu/.bzr/repository/')
[07:32] <slangasek> is not compatible with
[07:32] <slangasek> KnitPackRepository('bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Evorlon/hal/lp.277589/.bzr/repository/')
[07:32] <wgrant> Woah.
[07:32] <wgrant> That is one old repo format.
[07:33] <wgrant> Is there a good reason for that?
[07:33] <slangasek> because I don't know how to upgrade it ;)
[07:33] <wgrant> bzr upgrade lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/hal/ubuntu
[07:33] <slangasek> won't that upgrade it to the bleeding edge by default?
[07:34] <wgrant> No - 1.6 at most, IIRC.
[07:34] <wgrant> But let's see what's defualt now.
[07:34] <wgrant> pack-0.92 is the default.
[07:35] <wgrant> So anything >= bzr 0.92 can read it.
[07:35]  * slangasek tries 1.6 anyway, then
[07:35] <wgrant> (this is Jaunty, with bzr 1.13~rc1)
[07:35] <wgrant> 1.6 is what I usually use.
[07:36] <slangasek> ok, this one seems to be working.  I tried upgrading my local branch earlier and it whined at me, dunno what that difference is
[07:38] <wgrant> What was it whining about?
[07:38] <slangasek> let's hope my laptop doesn't crash or anything before it manages to finish upgrading, I'd prefer not to be picking up the shards remotely :P
[07:38] <slangasek> not knowing how to upgrade between format $foo and format $bar
[07:38] <wgrant> If that breaks, you do need something like lftp, yes.
[07:42] <slangasek> hmm, distinct lack of progress reporting :)
[07:44] <wgrant> slangasek: Using Jaunty's?
[07:44] <slangasek> yes
[08:00] <wgrant> slangasek: Did it finish?
[08:00] <slangasek> wgrant: nah, I was being too ambitious and trying to do --1.6.1-rich-root, and got a "Does not support nested trees" for my trouble
[08:01] <wgrant> slangasek: rich-root is useless for your case.
[08:01] <wgrant> (it's only needed for bzr-svn)
[08:02] <slangasek> trying with --1.6 now
[08:07] <slangasek> bzr: ERROR: Cannot convert to format <RepositoryFormatKnitPack5>.  Does not support rich root data.
[08:08] <wgrant> slangasek: Which repo are you converting? lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/hal/ubuntu?
[08:08] <slangasek> yes
[08:09] <wgrant> slangasek: What does it say the repo format is if you bzr info it? LP says Knits 3, but that doesn't do rich roots either AFAICT.
[08:10] <t3rm1n4l> hi
[08:10] <t3rm1n4l> is there a seperate google summer of code channel here ?
[08:11] <slangasek> wgrant: Format <RepositoryFormatKnit3>
[08:12] <slangasek> well, in the "is deprecated" message
[08:12] <slangasek> after that, it says Standalone branch (format: unnamed)
[08:14] <wgrant> I'm checking it out to have a look at it myself (though it's not the same copy you're looking at, unfortunately), but it's of course being very slow because it's knits.
[08:17] <slangasek> if I ask the local branch, it says dirstate-with-subtree
[08:18] <wgrant> So it does.
[08:18] <wgrant> I just saw that.
[08:18] <wgrant> That is the problem.
[08:18]  * wgrant tries some things.
[08:20] <wgrant> I can't upgrade dirstate-with-subtree to any format, but I *can* create a new 1.6.1-rich-root branch and pull into there.
[08:20] <slangasek> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2008q3/046400.html
[08:20] <slangasek> so that's the recommended approach, yeah (and I think that's what we had to do for the d-i repo when upgrading it)
[08:20] <wgrant> Aha, exactly.
[08:20] <wgrant> And then you have to work out how to clobber the LP branch.
[08:21] <slangasek> yep
[08:21] <slangasek> are you doing that, or shall I?
[08:21] <wgrant> I'm not core-dev.
[08:21] <slangasek> oh
[08:21] <slangasek> then I guess I'll do it, won't I
[08:21] <wgrant> I suspect so.
[08:21] <wgrant> You might need an lftp to do it
[08:21] <wgrant> As I don't think --overwrite will change the format.
[08:21] <wgrant> But, hmmm...
[08:23] <wgrant> slangasek: Do you recall how you did it with d-i?
[08:23] <slangasek> the overwriting part?  not exactly
[08:23] <slangasek> we may have just deleted the branch out of LP and pushed
[08:24] <wgrant> Then you lose all the metadata and branch links.
[08:24] <wgrant> s/branch/bug/
[08:24] <slangasek> then we may not have done that
[08:25] <slangasek> cjwatson: what was the trick to clobber the format of the d-i branch on the server when upgrading?
[08:25] <wgrant> Without knowing better, I'd remove the remote .bzr and push with --use-existing-dir.
[08:33] <slangasek> haha
[08:34] <slangasek> Using default stacking branch /~vcs-imports/hal/main at bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/hal/
[08:34] <slangasek> bzr: ERROR: RemoteRepository(bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Evcs-imports/hal/main/.bzr/)
[08:34] <slangasek> is not compatible with
[08:34] <slangasek> KnitPackRepository('bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/hal/ubuntu/.bzr/repository/')
[08:34] <slangasek> different rich-root support
[08:34] <wgrant> Hahah.
[08:34] <wgrant> --stacked-on= ?
[08:34] <slangasek> trying
[08:35] <slangasek> heh, actually, it created the .bzr before it failed, so it no longer wants to stack...
[08:35] <wgrant> Convenient!
[08:37] <slangasek> though it's still being awfully slow
[08:39] <wgrant> I'm a little concerned that '--stacked-on=' stacks on the current directory.
[08:39] <wgrant> I wonder if there is actually a way to force non-stacking...
[08:44] <slangasek> nope, that's bug #328146 :/
[08:46] <wgrant> slangasek: Ah.
[08:46] <wgrant> slangasek: Is the push working?
[08:46] <slangasek> I restarted to fiddle; let me see
[08:49] <slangasek> seems to be working, though slower than I expected
[08:55] <wgrant> slangasek: You should probably get ~registry to unset the dev focus, as that's clearly not right any more.
[08:55] <wgrant> Which will mean they won't autostack at all.
[09:00] <slangasek> I don't follow you
[09:00] <slangasek> you want the upstream branch to not be marked as 'development' as a workaround?
[09:00] <wgrant> lp:hal is a vcs-imports mirror which is three years out of date. It's misleading, and it's causing the stacking problem, so it's good all-round to kill it.
[09:01] <slangasek> oh, hmm, it is rather old isn't it
[09:01] <cjwatson> slangasek: pretty sure we removed the remote branch
[09:01] <wgrant> Since they moved to git, I presume.
[09:01] <cjwatson> (d-i)
[09:01] <slangasek> cjwatson: ok - so we just dealt with the loss of any bug metadata?
[09:02] <slangasek> (and merge metadata)
[09:02] <slangasek> s/merge/merge proposal/
[09:02] <wgrant> There probably weren't BMPs back then to lose.
[09:02] <slangasek> "back then" - it was in February... :)
[09:02] <wgrant> Oh.
[09:02] <cjwatson> slangasek: I don't think I cared that much about bug metadata on the Ubuntu trunk, no
[09:03] <cjwatson> and I don't think there were any merge proposals at the time
[09:03]  * slangasek nods
[09:03] <wgrant> I wonder how many other dirstate-with-subtree branches there are around.
[09:03] <wgrant> ~bzr seems to have liked to forget about that format - it's a dead end and isn't listed even in the legacy formats list.
[09:05] <slangasek> hmm, new branch is there, wonder what it is
[09:06] <wgrant> LP hasn't scanned it yet, apparently.
[09:06] <slangasek>     repository: Packs 5 rich-root (adds stacking support, requires bzr 1.6.1)
[09:06] <slangasek> and darn speedy to checkout, now \o/
[09:06] <wgrant> Excellent,.
[09:06] <wgrant> And now, you can stack on it!
[09:06] <wgrant> Yep. Knits are awfully slow.
[09:07] <cjwatson> dirstate-with-subtree was what you got when bzr-svn first arrived, I think
[09:07] <cjwatson> so I suspect "several"
[09:07]  * slangasek nods :/
[09:08] <wgrant> :(
[09:08] <wgrant> At least the conversion process is worked out now.
[09:08] <slangasek> yes, it just requires patience :-P
[09:08] <wgrant> LP still hasn't picked up the format switch.
[09:08] <wgrant> Maybe it won't until there's a new rev.
[09:09] <slangasek> but the initial investment was worth it, lp:~vorlon/hal/lp.277589 is light now
[09:09] <cjwatson> the last time I tried to look at this across the board, I found bug 264902 and left a comment on it explaining that fixing it would be useful for this
[09:09] <wgrant> It's also got a very strange error on it.
[09:10] <wgrant> slangasek: What do you make of that scary-looking error on the branch page?
[09:10] <wgrant> I had a similar one (but for file://) before, when I pushed a branch stacked on a local branch.
[09:10] <cjwatson> is the "stacked on" meant to show the lp: bit? LP doesn't normally
[09:10] <wgrant> cjwatson: It does.
[09:11] <slangasek> wgrant: heh, apparently I stacked it on https: instead of http; it worked, but I should probably correct that
[09:11] <wgrant> I filed a bug to make it do so.
[09:11] <cjwatson> ah. yes, I see it does in some other contexts but not all
[09:11] <wgrant> cjwatson: Those are regarded as bugs - I've filed a few, and they were fixed within a few days.
[09:11] <cjwatson> e.g. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vorlon/hal/lp.277589 has "Branch: lp:~vorlon/hal/lp.277589" but the large-font title has "~vorlon/hal/lp.277589"
[09:11] <wgrant> Ah. Hm.
[09:12]  * wgrant hopes slangasek just deleted that.
[09:12] <slangasek> yep
[09:12] <slangasek> redoing with stacking against http to see if lp likes that better
[09:12] <wgrant> It detected it fine, but wouldn't mirror. There's a bug there somewhere.
[09:12] <cjwatson> right, armel uninstallables down to 48, almost all of those should disappear over the next couple of publisher cycles
[09:13] <slangasek> yay
[09:13] <wgrant> cjwatson: Is lpia super-installability entirely fixed?
[09:13] <slangasek> wgrant: the page looks less errorful now?
[09:14] <wgrant> slangasek: Indeed, but still not scanned.
[09:14] <slangasek> sure
[09:14] <wgrant> There we go.
[09:15] <slangasek> do merge proposals automatically get emailed to the branch owner even if you indicate a different reviewer?
[09:16] <wgrant> slangasek: They will be emailed to people subscribed to merge proposals.
[09:16] <wgrant> slangasek: Check the first <select> on the core-dev subscription on the target.
[09:16] <wgrant> By default the owner will get them.
[09:17] <slangasek> so even if submitting a merge proposal and specifying a different reviewer, it'll spam people, bah
[09:17] <wgrant> slangasek: Unless you reconfigure the subscription, yes.
[09:19] <cjwatson> wgrant: super-installability?
[09:20] <wgrant> cjwatson: Lack of shlibdeps.
[09:20] <cjwatson> oh, right
[09:20] <cjwatson> wgrant: doko was finishing up that work, I don't know how far he got
[09:20] <cjwatson> wgrant: the worst things likely to infect other packages were fixed, though
[09:23]  * mdz tears his hear out over bug 328035
[09:24] <slangasek> mdz: you're still seeing it then? :(
[09:25] <wgrant> I see something like that most times that I switch VTs back to X.
[09:25] <wgrant> (i915)
[09:25] <wgrant> I once managed to see the original VT uncorrupted, and there was the tail of a traceback like that.
[09:25] <mdz> slangasek: just reconfirmed this morning with the latest -intel
[09:25] <mdz> wgrant: yes, it writes it out to /dev/tty so it ends up on some inconvenient VT
[09:25] <slangasek> hrm, is there an explanation somewhere of what the subdirs of /usr/share/hal/fdi mean?  So I know which one a given file goes in
[09:26] <mdz> I'd like to temporarily tell apport to dump a report for SIGABRT to make it easier to capture
[09:26] <wgrant> mdz: I saw an upload from kees this morning that looked like it fixed that.
[09:27] <slangasek> yes, xserver-core got a fix to capture those backtraces somewhere more useful
[09:27] <mdz> oh, so kees is seeing this too?
[09:28] <wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server
[09:28] <wgrant> Note the last upload.
[09:28] <mdz> yes, just saw it on -changes
[09:28] <slangasek> kees is seeing other bugs
[09:28] <slangasek> or was, before he upgraded
[09:29] <mdz> where does stderr end up? the log?
[09:30] <mdz> hmm, the gdm log
[09:30] <mdz> I'm not seeing any errors there
[09:30] <mdke> slangasek: ok, will check it out (ubuntu and canonical addresses should be whitelisted afaik)
[09:31] <slangasek> mdke: might've come in from a kubuntu address, fwiw
[09:33] <mdke> slangasek: ok, looks like someone has taken care of it
[09:35] <slangasek> ok
[09:35] <mdz> slangasek: were the circumstances of your crash similar to mine, i.e. the system had been suspended for some hours?
[09:35] <slangasek> mdz: didn't always have to be a long suspend
[09:36] <mdz> slangasek: as I've written in the bug now, a suspend/resume stress test failed to trigger it
[09:36] <slangasek> I saw the same crash on any number of resumes of varying lengths, as well as when twiddling my video out
[09:37] <mdz> slangasek: you're using the VGA output I assume?
[09:38] <slangasek> mdz: yes
[09:38] <mdz> I wonder what else is common
[09:38] <mdz> slangasek: do you use Xvideo regularly?
[09:39] <mdz> Xv I mean
[09:39] <slangasek> I use it sometimes; I hadn't noticed any correlation with the crashes though
[09:39] <slangasek> but that could just mean I hadn't noticed
[09:41] <mdz> slangasek: what sort of input devices do you have attached?
[09:42] <slangasek> mdz: I have a USB KVM that I use when I'm 'docked'.
[09:43] <slangasek> I have seen crashes related to disconnecting the USB cable; as has kees I believe
[09:44] <mdz> I have a USB X10 remote
[09:44] <mdz> and at one point I suspected it was related, as I saw a crash when connecting it when no resume was in progress
[09:45] <mdz> but I've never been able to reproduce a problem by repeatedly connecting/disconnecting it
[09:45]  * slangasek nods
[09:46] <slangasek> it's hard to even guess how many separate bugs we're dealing with here, since there haven't been good crash reports up to now
[09:47] <mdz> slangasek: did you have any luck with valgrind?
[09:48] <slangasek> I ended up downgrading the driver first and then looking at the toolchain
[09:49] <slangasek> so never ran under valgrind
[09:49] <mdz> slangasek: is there anything else you have changed along the way which may have affected it?
[09:50] <slangasek> possibly; I tried to keep the changes to the driver isolated, but there may have been other packages upgraded in between restarts
[09:51] <mdz> slangasek: anything other than upgrading? (as I've upgraded as well)
[09:52] <slangasek> no
[10:06] <Nafallo> damnit.
[10:07] <Nafallo> mdz: I have that bug, as described in mdz's next to last comment.
[10:07] <Nafallo> except I don't watch DVDs, and not sleep...
[10:07] <mdz> Nafallo: always during resume?
[10:08] <wgrant> It's VT switching, not always resume, for me.
[10:08] <wgrant> And i can't reproduce by stress-testing either.
[10:08] <Nafallo> mdz: yes. basically I suspend in one data centre, head to the next and on resume I have a GDM prompt :-/
[10:09] <Nafallo> the usual applications I have open is gajim, terminator, firefox and thunderbird.
[10:09] <Nafallo> so no DVDs or anything fancy like that :-)
[10:09] <mdz> do any of you see [ 5381.180500] [drm:i915_get_vblank_counter] *ERROR* trying to get vblank count for disabled pipe 1 ?
[10:09] <mdz> (dmesg)
[10:10] <mdz> I see that every time I switch VTs
[10:10] <slangasek> no
[10:10] <wgrant> I get that on all VT switches.
[10:10] <mdz> bug 341363
[10:10] <Nafallo> [50311.489997] [drm:i915_get_vblank_counter] *ERROR* trying to get vblank count for disabled pipe 0
[10:11] <Nafallo> [50317.837740] [drm:i915_get_vblank_counter] *ERROR* trying to get vblank count for disabled pipe 0
[10:11] <Nafallo> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 0c)
[10:12] <mdz> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 0c)
[10:12] <Nafallo> hmmm
[10:12] <slangasek> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[10:12] <wgrant> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[10:12] <slangasek> so maybe it's fixed now for the 945
[10:13] <mdz> or not triggered
[10:13] <mdz> Nafallo,wgrant: any unusual input devices?
[10:13]  * slangasek nods
[10:13] <wgrant> mdz: Synaptics touchpad + basic Microsoft optical mouse.
[10:13] <wgrant> Only using LVDS, not VGA.
[10:15] <mdz> Nafallo: are you docking or using VGA out?
[10:15] <Nafallo> mdz: not that stays in the laptop when I suspend.
[10:15] <Nafallo> mdz: neither. just using the laptop screen.
[10:15] <mdz> I think at least some of the chatter on bug 315965 is about this bug
[10:16] <slangasek> should I post a .deb somewhere of 2.6.3-0ubuntu2 built with gcc 4.3.2-2ubuntu14 for people to try?
[10:16] <slangasek> (that's the toolchain originally used to build the 2.6.1-1ubuntu1 that worked)
[10:23] <Nafallo> slangasek: that's the one that fixed it for you yes?
[10:24] <slangasek> Nafallo: downgrading to 2.6.1-1ubuntu1 worked; rebuilding 2.6.1-1ubuntu1 with the current toolchain reintroduced the crash; upgrading to the current package fixes it again for me (so far as I've seen)
[10:25] <Nafallo> slangasek: might be worth trying indeed.
[10:27] <cjwatson> mdz: since you were concerned about it in yesterday's meeting: armel uninstallables are now down to 16, with three or four more due to disappear shortly, and the remainder are not a concern for the mobile project
[10:27] <cjwatson> (16 in main, that is)
[10:27] <mdz> cjwatson: great news, thank you
[10:28] <cjwatson> fixing uninstallables is a bit like being a surgeon confronted with somebody covered in blood. Usually the actual problem is in a rather small number of places :-)
[10:30] <slangasek> Nafallo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/238035/
[10:30] <mdz> ConnectBot on the G1 has turned out to be a very handy debugging tool
[10:30] <mdz> I can walk around the flat with a live screen+gdb session in my pocket
[10:31] <slangasek> :-)
[10:31] <mdz> I'm running out of ideas for how to reproduce this blasted thing
[10:32] <mdz> at least in Nafallo's case, it doesn't require leaving the system asleep for very long
[10:32] <mdz> Nafallo: how long would you estimate between sleep and wake?
[10:33] <mdz> I've done a few dozen VT switches and haven't been able to break it
[10:33] <mdz> likewise for suspend/resume
[10:33] <Nafallo> mdz: about 40mins to an 2h...
[10:34] <Nafallo> that's just of the top of my head calculating on tube times fwiw...
[10:34] <mdz> that's better than 8 hours, but still not very hopeful for analysis if it's part of the formula
[10:40] <mdz> nafallo,wgrant: i386 or amd64?
[10:41] <wgrant> mdz: i386
[10:41] <Nafallo> mdz: x86_64
[10:41] <mdz> wgrant: and your symptoms match bug 328035?
[10:41] <mdz> the rest of us are all running amd64 I think
[10:42] <wgrant> mdz: X crashes after VT switch and on resume, and I sighted a glibc stacktrace on one occasion. I think so.
[10:52] <crdlb> hmm, am I the only one on radeon (RV200) with this bug?
[10:54] <slangasek> crdlb: if you mean the bug described above, then you're almost certainly seeing a different bug with similar superficial symptoms
[10:54] <crdlb> but it's identical; I even see the glibc bt sometimes
[10:55] <slangasek> that's really not meaningful.  glibc has a generic error handler that generates backtraces when it detects memory corruption.
[10:56] <crdlb> k, I'll file a separate bug then; it just seems like quite a coincidence
[10:58] <mdz> if they are the same, that would be very bad news indeed
[10:58] <mdz> I still have hope that this is isolated to the driver
[11:24] <apw> cjwatson, the grub upload for jaunty.  will that trigger a grub-install automatically on upgrade from intrepid, does it need a release note or anything?
[11:33] <maxb> grub package updates do not usually trigger grub-installs. IIRC Debian release-noted and NEWS-ed the last one that was required over there
[11:54] <superm1> slangasek, can't say I know for sure.  i dont recall ever using nvclock
[13:27] <asac> calc: can you please check your f3507g modem with latest NM bits from jaunty ... at least it should work now if you choose the right entry (out of the three). thanks!
[13:31] <ubuntuNEWUSR> anyone help for me?
[13:31] <ubuntuNEWUSR> i like the install windows driver for my belkin wireless G pcmci card with chipset Ralink RT2500
[13:34] <ubuntuNEWUSR> anyone help for me?
[13:34] <ubuntuNEWUSR> i like the install windows driver for my belkin wireless G pcmci card with chipset Ralink RT2500
[13:35] <Mithrandir> ubuntuNEWUSR: ask in #ubuntu for support
[13:37] <directhex> not only that, but ralink have a proper gpl driver
[13:55] <delicowa> what exactly do we do here?
[14:00] <ion_> Try to stay alive until successfully producing offspring, so that the species lives on.
[14:04] <mdke> if an upload is done now while the archive is frozen, will it go through normally once it is unfrozen post-beta?
[14:34] <DktrKranz> mdke, if you upload it now, it will stay in unapproved until approval and get processed automatically when beta freeze is over
[14:42] <mdke> DktrKranz: great
[15:20] <grom_> hey.  Is BlowFish have better security than AES?
[15:21] <directhex> cool kids use double-ROT13
[15:21] <grom_> ...
[15:31] <magcius> Can we make more tools in Ubuntu use PolicyKit instead of gksu/gksudo?
[15:31] <magcius> Or is that a GNOME decision.
[15:31] <asac> magcius: its probably a patch decision ;)
[15:31] <cjwatson> apw: what maxb said. Since it only affects people who've done manual filesystem changes anyway, and who would already have had to run grub-install on upgrade from <=intrepid, I'm not that worried
[15:31] <magcius> asac, I'm not in favor of downstream patches.
[15:32] <asac> magcius: i didnt talk about downstream
[15:32] <magcius> asac, then what do you mean by a patch decision?
[15:32] <cjwatson> apw: (i.e. intrepid's grub couldn't boot ext4 anyway)
[15:33] <asac> magcius: i mean if someone provides patches its likely that upstream will accept them
[15:33] <magcius> May I ask how gksudo is integrated into the system utilities?
[15:34] <cjwatson> kirkland: ubuntu-virt-server is uninstallable on everything except amd64 and i386. Should the kvm dependency be removed except on those architectures, or should ubuntu-virt-server simply be built for only amd64 and i386?
[15:35] <cjwatson> for the most part gksudo "integration" just consists of using it in a .desktop file, or in rare cases of a wrapper script that calls gksudo
[15:35] <cjwatson> mostly we consider this a bug
[15:36] <asac> magcius: i dont understand that question.
[15:36] <magcius> cjwatson, thanks.
[15:36] <asac> heh ok.
[15:38] <apw> cjwatson, that makes sense.  thanks
[17:18] <Adri2000> archive admin needed to sync weechat to fix an important security vulnerability, bug #342790~[4~[4~[4~[4~[4~
[17:18] <Adri2000> s/~[4~[4~[4~[4~[4~//
[17:19] <savvas> Does anyone know a python library / function that checks for user input, keystrokes and mouse clicks? I need to check if a user is idle :)
[18:18] <slangasek> superm1: ok; was just asking because you TiL
[18:31] <crazybyte> Hi! Perhaps someone knows. Is Ubuntu participating as mentoring organization at GSoC 2009? I cannot find it's listing anywhere. Thank you!
[18:35] <pedahzur> Hello!  Pidgin versions less than 2.5.5 are reporting errors logging in to ICQ (see: http://www.pidgin.im/).  Since Hardy is still a supported release, is there going to be a backport of the Pidgin 2.5.5 package to Hardy?
[18:35] <pedahzur> Shall I file a bug/backport request?
[18:38] <pedahzur> Backport has been requested...nvm.
[18:43] <pedahzur> I'll take than back...the backport request was marked invalid...I wonder why.
[18:46] <jpds> pedahzur: bug number?
[18:55] <pedahzur> jpds:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/319547  I changed it with the comment that hardy was still supported.  Not sure if that was the right thing to do.
[22:11] <GuyFromHell> hey all, i'm trying to make a patch for a package but `debuild -S` keeps croaking on http://rafb.net/p/UYndq787.html
[22:11] <GuyFromHell> although i can `echo "foo" | gpg --sign` properly and it says the correct key
[22:12] <Mithrandir> don't worry about that, if you just want to create a patch you don't need to sign it.
[22:13] <Mithrandir> though in general, make sure your entry in the changelog exactly matches what's on your key
[22:13] <GuyFromHell> it indeed does :/
[22:13] <GuyFromHell> I don't need it even if i'm patching a patch?
[22:13] <GuyFromHell> or should i not even do that in the first place; just make a new patch..
[22:14] <Mithrandir> patching patches is generally icky and it's more readable to just create a new patch
[22:15] <GuyFromHell> I figured it out, my secret key was for "Name (comment) <email>"; not "Name <email>"
[22:16] <GuyFromHell> alright, i'll try this again making a new patch instead; thanks
[22:17] <Mithrandir> #ubuntu-motu might be a better channel for asking those kinds of questions, btw.
[22:37] <cjwatson> Adri2000: done
[22:49] <Adri2000> cjwatson: thanks
[23:12] <slangasek> Nafallo: anything interesting testing that intel .deb?
[23:12] <TheMuso> c
[23:21] <davmor2> bryce: I got a wacom tablet for testing purposes.  I got everything working in intrepid (stylus, mouse & pad buttons)  I've since done a fresh install of Jaunty to test it out there.  Mouse sends the cursor over to the left of the screen and it doesn't move.  I'm assuming that the new driver doesn't like the setting I copied from here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WacomTroubleshooting any clues on how to fix this
[23:26] <zyga> hello
[23:26] <zyga> I have found something that might be familiar to python developers using python3 and especially pydoc
[23:27] <zyga> apparently our pydoc from python3.0 package is utterly bronken when generating module documentation
[23:28] <zyga> a simple one-line patch fixes pydoc
[23:28] <zyga> the sad thing is that nobody noticed this so late in python3000 process
[23:28] <patapouf> Hi, I'm looking into some help to use autogen.
[23:28] <jldugger> davmor2: i probably need to update my jaunty install, but last i checked wacom was workable
[23:29] <zyga> it's even more ironic when you realize that 2to3 is actually automatically fixing it! :-(
[23:29] <zyga> but anyway
[23:29] <zyga> I'd like to share my patch
[23:29] <davmor2> jldugger: to be honest it almost certainly is something I've done I'm just trying to figure out what :)
[23:30] <zyga> http://pastebin.com/m600b85d7
[23:30] <zyga> I'd love if someone push this all the way to upstream and everone else
[23:31] <ArthurLiu> hi, http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/ubuntu ?!
[23:32] <davmor2> jldugger: is your xorg.conf similar to the one in the link above?
[23:35] <davmor2> jldugger: the stylus is amazingly accurate it only seems to be the mouse that is having issues
[23:35] <jldugger> ArthurLiu: im told whoever applied withdrew their application
[23:36] <jldugger> ive no idea who applied, but if it's been given to another project it seems unlikely it'll come back
[23:36] <jldugger> ArthurLiu: consider it an opportunity to work very closely with upstream
[23:36] <ArthurLiu> a lot of people are going to be really confused
[23:36] <jldugger> why?
[23:37] <ArthurLiu> well, you already had a few students at least interested
[23:37] <ArthurLiu> someone should update the wiki page and send a notice on the soc mailing list
[23:38] <jldugger> SoC is always a speculative thing; there's no guarentee that ubuntu would be accepted if it applied
[23:38] <ArthurLiu> well, you *were* accepted this year
[23:38] <jldugger> unfortunately, it seems that none of the ubuntu governance attempts to monitor SoC
[23:39] <ArthurLiu> never understood that
[23:39] <jldugger> its not quite clear who gets the money
[23:39] <jldugger> i dont think you can cut a check to the ubuntu foundation
[23:40] <ArthurLiu> you mean the 500$ ?
[23:40] <zyga> doko: ping
[23:40] <jldugger> 500 per student could mean 5000 or more
[23:41] <ArthurLiu> well, if you *really* don't know, you can just give them back to the mentors..
[23:41] <jldugger> im assuming that whoever (no clue who) applied on ubuntu's behalf decided they didn't have the time to mentor
[23:42] <ArthurLiu> one "maria_r"
[23:42] <ArthurLiu> "Maria Randazzo"
[23:43] <jldugger> taking the 5000 and commissioning a mentor from MOTU or whatnot seems reasonable
[23:43] <jldugger> no clue about tax but it seems like a nightmare
[23:44] <jldugger> you would think the foundation would be a non-profit capable of handling this but i challenge you to find two foundation board members who have any idea the finances
[23:46] <jldugger> ArthurLiu: im taken to understand the xorg.conf thing may not work the same anymore
[23:46] <jldugger> somethin about HAL etc
[23:46] <jldugger> and evdev
[23:46] <BUGabundo1> question: everyone knows that most SiS HW sucks on most Linux distros, but I've seen a few working flawlessly (specially wired and wifi card, asac). could the drivers be fetch from those distros and improve ubuntu, or are most of those closed drivers handed over by the manufacture to the Distro?
[23:46] <jldugger> doh
[23:46] <jldugger> davmor2: im taken to understand the xorg.conf thing may not work the same anymore
[23:47] <slangasek> ArthurLiu: what wiki page are you asking to have updated?
[23:47] <directhex> BUGabundo1, core issue: nobody cares about SiS
[23:47] <davmor2> jldugger: That's what I was thinking.  But how would you go about enabling the mouse part now then?
[23:47] <BUGabundo1> I know that a Portuguese distro (CaixaMagica) based on mandriva is one example
[23:47] <ArthurLiu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2009 and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2009/Ideas
[23:47] <ArthurLiu> that's a shame, there were some intriguing projects
[23:48] <BUGabundo1> directhex: I guess.. I know it sucks too... but many pt users are getting this HW and can't use Ubuntu
[23:48] <directhex> BUGabundo1, specific bugs help
[23:48] <ArthurLiu> I suppose some of them could take refuge at Debian :)
[23:49] <BUGabundo1> directhex: just let me get my hands on one, and ill file all you want! any thing specific ? I did file a few about wifi a few weeks back
[23:50] <BUGabundo1> but the user/owner did what most SiS users do... post on LP or foruns and then move to another distro
[23:50] <BUGabundo1> since nobody helps
[23:51] <asac> usually other distros shouldnt be much better if the drivers are not there
[23:51] <asac> unless its a special distro focussed on SiS or something
[23:51] <asac> BUGabundo1: which distro are they moving to?
[23:51] <BUGabundo1> most aren't
[23:52] <BUGabundo1> I know that CaixaMagica works
[23:52] <BUGabundo1> we have this student give way laptops (like OPLC)
[23:53] <slangasek> ArthurLiu: ok. and where does the dangling link http://socghop.appspot.com/org/show/google/gsoc2009/ubuntu come from?
[23:54] <BUGabundo1> I'll see if I can get some data from a livecd
[23:54] <BUGabundo1> but since most wifi or wired cards won't either get an IP or if they do, not have network access
[23:54] <BUGabundo1> its hard to post in real time
[23:54] <ArthurLiu> slangasek, a page I hadn't refreshed, but I suppose that by know, there should be a dozen places over the internet linking to it
[23:55] <ArthurLiu> it's been in the selected mentor organisation for 4 days..
[23:56] <ArthurLiu> *list
[23:56] <slangasek> ArthurLiu: hmm, ok.  Well, I'll check with the folks I know were wanting Ubuntu to participate and see if they know what happened.
[23:56] <c_korn> hello. can someone review my patch for fast-user-switch-applet please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/345480/comments/7
[23:56] <ArthurLiu> I just found this :
[23:56] <ArthurLiu> Ubuntu had applied and was accepted, but they have subsequently chosen not to participate in GSoC 2009. You can ask for details in #ubuntu on Freenode.
[23:56] <ArthurLiu> Cheers, LH
[23:56] <ArthurLiu> on the gsoc-discuss ML
[23:57] <slangasek> oh, well, this isn't #ubuntu
[23:57] <slangasek> maybe someone in #ubuntu actually knows more than I :)
[23:57] <ArthurLiu> hum
[23:57] <ArthurLiu> well, since nobody knows, everyone knows more or the same as everyone