[01:42] <matv1> I am getting crashes from the terminal app consistently. Anyone else seeing that?
[01:42] <matv1> on Mako channel devel
[01:56] <matv1> I can see this in var/crash
[01:57] <matv1> weird thing is: the version number of the app differs
[01:58] <matv1> the crash log says 0.5.113 and the ui says 0.5.119
[01:58] <matv1> could that be relevant?
[01:59] <matv1> could it be this version shouldnt have been released to the devel channel? i.e. proposed only?
[02:14] <diddledan> does anyone have any walkthrough on how to prepare files from a fresh `lunch` followed by `make` ready for ubuntu-device-flash (i.e. a redistributable instead of using rootstock to install onto a single device)
[02:15] <diddledan> I found information on this page but it is unclear how to get the files from `make` into a format usable by the system-image utilities: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/ServerSetup
[02:17] <diddledan> this is for a new port, not a modified version of something the project already provides - therefore the remote-system-image function for file_device in the config file of system-image server is not helpful
[06:22] <mardy> cwayne1: pong :-)
[06:53] <pitti> which component is responsible for the SIM pin unlock? a few days or so ago the phone finally started asking me for the PIN right on startup, but on image 208 it lost that again
[06:54] <pitti> now I again need to go to the indicator and unlock the pin there (which often enough I just forget)
[06:54] <seb128> pitti, unity8 I think
[06:54] <pitti> seb128: uh, really? unity knows about SIM PINs?
[06:54] <seb128> pitti, the lock screen is part of unity
[06:55] <pitti> anyway, I can start there and we can move the bug around
[06:55] <pitti> ah, it's got a few sim pin bugs already indeed
[06:56] <seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1333121
[06:56] <seb128> that might be yours?
[06:57] <pitti> hm, not sure
[06:57] <pitti> it did work in image 207, and a few earlier ones
[06:57] <seb128> well, that's what you are suggesting no?
[06:57] <pitti> exactly as it should be
[06:57] <seb128> that bug has a branch linked that landed some days ago
[06:58] <seb128> pitti, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/8.00+14.10.20140822-0ubuntu1
[06:58] <seb128> has
[06:58] <seb128> "  * Show the SIM unlock dialog immediately after booting, and enable its
[06:58] <seb128>     emergency call button."
[06:58] <seb128> so maybe there is a bug in there?
[06:58] <pitti> maybe, or some race condition
[06:58] <pitti> but I booted three times with 208, it never asked me
[06:59] <pitti> while on 207 it always asked me (and I booted that umpteen times yesterday)
[06:59] <pitti> I filed bug 1361518 for now
[06:59] <seb128> danke
[07:01] <pitti> I also followed up to the other bug
[07:14] <jibel> pitti, seb128 it's disabled on purpose in unity8
[07:14] <jibel> bug 1361074
[07:15] <seb128> jibel, how come it was not mentioned in the changelog?
[07:15] <jibel> seb128, no idea
[07:15] <seb128> Saviq, ^?
[07:16] <Saviq> seb128, it was... but in the line the train didn't pick up, my bad
[07:16] <seb128> hum, how does that work? it should have picked the commit msg for the change no?
[07:16] <Saviq> seb128, train's only picking up until an empty line now to allow for verbose commit msgs vs. not-so-verbose changelog
[07:16] <seb128> oh, ok, didn't know that
[07:17] <Saviq> but obviously that failed when I did put the empty line in the wrong place
[07:17] <seb128> k
[07:17] <seb128> Saviq, thanks
[07:17] <pitti> jibel, Saviq: oh, so it got deliberately disabled yesterday?
[07:17] <pitti> will that come back?
[07:18] <Saviq> pitti, yeah, soon
[07:18] <Saviq> pitti, like this week maybe even
[07:18] <pitti> Saviq: ok, thanks
[07:36] <pitti> robru, Mirv: so apparently we'll need to land all the X-Langpack: things to RM too; is there some shortcut with copying packages from utopic, or do we need to jump through all the "create a bazillion MPs and land them" fuss again?
[07:37] <pitti> RTM, even
[07:37]  * pitti uploads new touch langpacks and will copy them to RTM, but without ^ they will have little effect
[07:38] <pitti> Saviq: hm "invalid" is quite harsh -- it is a functional regression, and not having the SIM dialog is quite a bummer..
[07:38] <Saviq> pitti, would you rather me dupe it?
[07:39] <Saviq> pitti, there's like 3 bugs dealing with that already
[07:39] <pitti> Saviq: no worries, I just wondered
[07:39] <pitti> that's fine
[07:39] <pitti> as long as it's tracked
[07:42] <robru> pitti: yes it is legit to create an rtm silo and then sync utopic packages into it. Sil can help you with that once he's up, I'm long past EOD
[07:43] <seb128> that rtm handling is suboptimal
[07:43] <seb128> not sure why 2 landings are needed for things that use trunk for rtm
[07:43] <pitti> I'd think that most changes landing in utopic are destined for RTM anyway -- we are in FF, and people work on nothing else
[07:44] <seb128> we should double work only for projects that want a trunk with new features not suitable for rtm
[07:44] <pitti> yeah, we made our lifes even harder wiht that..
[07:44] <seb128> and branch in those cases
[07:44] <Mirv> pitti: probably the best is to check if sil2100 has something new brewed to help that copying, but at least PPA-to-PPA copying is not anymore possible since the X-Langpack changes have landed already. dget + dput would of course work.
[07:45] <Mirv> or well copy-archive from archives to rtm-PPA
[07:47] <pitti> yeah, that's what I meant
[07:47] <pitti> I did that with langpacks
[07:48] <pitti> i. e. we'll need to go through and see if utopic has any changes that we don't want in RTM, and if there are none we can just copy?
[07:52] <dholbach> good morning
[09:01] <seb128> jgdx, hey, did you try if you still have the tz not changing issue?
[09:09] <pitti> hm, why don't I see the gallery-app in the emulator? because camera isn't visible (no cam in emulator)? gallery still ought to work though, no?
[09:10] <sergiusens> pitti: gallery is an armhf click
[09:10] <pitti> aah
[09:10] <sergiusens> pitti: we need the ci team to support fat package building
[09:10] <pitti> hm, wouldn't that blow up the image size and downloads even more?
[09:11] <ogra_> only with fat though
[09:11] <ogra_> thats elastic :P
[09:11] <sergiusens> pitti: it's the click design; and yeah; gallery si kind of big
[09:11] <sergiusens> pitti: but the store doesn't allow multiple packages to coexist
[09:11] <pitti> well, it was just for a screenshot of a bug that I filed; but should be fine without one, too
[09:12]  * ogra_ sighs ... so finally we have DRI, GLX and wayland on the phone ...
[09:12] <ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/208.changes ...
[09:13] <ogra_> all the guys with nvidia or radeon cards in their telephones will be so thankful :P
[09:13] <anpok> and those that want to mess with freedreno drivers
[09:13] <ogra_> heh
[09:15] <anpok> ogra_: why was that only added now? mesas egl already seemed to depend on wayland and xcb..
[09:16] <ogra_> anpok, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-bad1.0/1.4.0-1ubuntu1
[09:16] <ogra_> needs to be fixed to recommends or some such, so they dont end up on armhf images
[09:16] <ogra_> (these libs are huge and have no benefit)
[09:24] <sergiusens> ogra_: your stats should be for the rtm image!
[09:31] <asac> whoopsie again not happily uplkoading... log is telling me its offline, while it is wifi online for sure
[09:32] <asac> what does whoopsie really look for to determine whether online/offline and whether on data or not?
[09:32] <asac> anyone knows details?
[09:33] <asac> nm-tool reports "connected"
[09:33] <asac> restarting whoopsie resurrected this
[09:35] <ev> asac: whether it's connected to wifi or ethernet: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/whoopsie/trunk/view/head:/src/connectivity.c#L205
[09:35] <asac> ev: do you also wake up everye 10 minutes or so in case yo missed a dbus signal?
[09:35] <asac> seems this is what happened then i guess
[09:36] <asac> like evfery 10 minute one busy poll etc.
[09:36] <ev> missed a dbus signal? It's been a long time since I've dug deep on dbus, but is that possible?
[09:36] <asac> ev: of course. dbus is buggy in general :)
[09:36] <asac> also you can have race
[09:36] <asac> i assume
[09:37] <asac> ev: i assume you first register state handler and then do ONE busy poll on initial startup?
[09:37] <asac> state_changed
[09:37] <ev> pitti: can you confirm? ^ that changes my understanding greatly of how we should interact with dbus
[09:38] <ev> asac: yes: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/whoopsie/trunk/view/head:/src/connectivity.c#L339
[09:38] <asac> i think i see it in the code that you do that (e.g. first register state handler, then go and poll for Get once
[09:38] <asac> )
[09:38] <ev> yeah
[09:38] <pitti> err, yes, it's not a know issue that apps "miss d-bus signals"
[09:38] <pitti> of course you have to initalize the state after connecting to services
[09:38] <asac> in any case, NM was online with nm-tool, but whoopsie log spit out "offline"
[09:38] <asac> restarting whoopsie made it pick up all the missed crashes and submitted them
[09:39] <pitti> if that were the case, we'd have a big problem (randomly missing signals)
[09:39] <jgdx> seb128, I'm in the middle of a wipe. Will check right after
[09:39] <ev> yes, I'm not denying something strange is going on here that we need to investigate
[09:39] <seb128> jgdx, thanks
[09:40] <ev> asac: can you pastebin the logs from whoopsie? Was it just a single "offline" - that might happen if whoopsie was unable to talk to NM's dbus API when it started.
[09:40] <ev> I should really make that more explicit
[09:40] <asac> ev: yes it was offline repeating
[09:40] <ev> hm
[09:40] <asac> no itmestamps
[09:40] <asac> it was talkinga bout data plan before
[09:40] <asac> but then loads of offline while i was surely online
[09:41] <ev> okay, were you on 3G and then switched to wifi?
[09:41] <asac> ev: most likely yes.
[09:41] <asac> i was outside
[09:41] <asac> came back indoors
[09:41] <asac> there were a bunch of crashes from yesterday in /var/crash though
[09:41] <asac> and i surely rebooted with wifi on in between due to hangs
[09:42] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8148475/
[09:42] <asac> thats what i found before restarting whoopsie
[09:42] <asac> those crashes not submitted were yesterday
[09:43] <asac> ev: is .1 always the newest backup?
[09:43] <ev> hm, I think I should implement SIGINT or something to more cleverly dump the state of the world that whoopsie sees
[09:43] <asac> or rather .2
[09:43] <asac> timestamps for logging would also help for very basic forensic support
[09:44] <ev> Err SIGUSR1. And yeah, timestamps
[09:44] <asac> ev: i was confused because of bad adb shell behaviour
[09:44] <asac> ev: here is the real log
[09:44] <ogra_> sergiusens, they will soon ... i plan to add changelog generation for rtm before end of the week
[09:44] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8148490/
[09:45] <asac> ev: Using lock path: /var/lock/whoopsie/lock
[09:45] <asac> thats when i did the restart whoopsie
[09:45] <asac> then it flush submitted stuff
[09:45] <asac> ev: i am using dual sim btw
[09:45] <asac> so might be a bit more confusing if you assume something other than global
[09:46] <asac> but really doubt this has anything to do with that
[09:46] <asac> ev: hmm.
[09:47] <asac> ev: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/whoopsie/trunk/view/head:/src/connectivity.c#L165
[09:47] <asac> that while ... that seems to assume that the interface that has primary route is coming first?
[09:47] <asac> sure that thats true?
[09:48] <asac> ev: at least in nm-tool my wifi interface comes after the data interfaces: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/whoopsie/trunk/view/head:/src/connectivity.c#L165
[09:49] <asac> ev: i think you have to check whether the interface is default and connected before even considering this a device that is valid for bailing.
[09:50] <asac> ev: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8148518/
[09:50] <asac> check that output
[09:51] <asac> i dont see that you check that this is the default connection
[09:51]  * ev looks
[09:51] <asac> so you will bail whenever there is a 3g connection active
[09:51] <asac> or not?
[09:51]  * asac thinks he doenst understand the code well enough
[09:52] <asac> hmm
[09:52] <asac> well. dont think i am right
[09:52] <asac> see the state_changed logic checks somehow if any device is active that isnt data
[09:52] <asac> it is fine
[09:53] <asac> err
[09:53] <asac> this looks very odd:
[09:53] <asac>         if (is_default_route (connection, path, FALSE) ||
[09:53] <asac>             is_default_route (connection, path, TRUE)) {
[09:53] <asac>             if (!is_paid_data_plan (connection, path)) {
[09:53] <asac>                 paid = FALSE;
[09:53] <asac>                 break;
[09:53] <asac>             }
[09:53] <asac>         }
[09:53] <asac> :)
[09:54] <asac> if it is or if it is not default route and it is not paid then we are on nt on paid? :)
[09:55] <ev> that's for ipv4 and ipv6
[09:55] <ev> I would greatly welcome explicit keyword arguments to C for exactly this reason
[09:55] <ev> though I suppose I could just encapsulate that in a variable
[09:55] <pitti> sil2100: good morning
[09:56] <asac> hmm. route_available logic feels very implicit ... might be a source of thinking that we are not online
[09:56] <ev> you might not be wrong about is_paid_data_plan - I just need to stare at it a bit longer
[09:57] <sil2100> pitti: morning!
[09:57] <ev> ah, yeah, maybe the route comes up a little after the connection?
[09:57] <asac> dunno. i think that logic is sane... should at least report MORE cases then valid ...not less
[09:57] <asac> s think route_changed logic might be the bad one
[09:57] <asac> route comes on after, yes
[09:58] <asac> dunno what  g_network_monitor_can_reach is doing
[09:58] <pitti> sil2100: for the x-use-langpack stuff: is it acceptable to copy those from utopic to RTM if they don't have other changes (or only changes which we want), or do we need to go through the whole "gazillion MPs, land" dance again?
[09:58] <asac> that might be buggy
[09:58] <asac> i assume it uses some netlink stuff which is never easy to really understand how to get deterministic behaviour out of it
[10:00] <asac> oh that is gio
[10:01] <asac> i like;
[10:01] <asac>     /* Using GNetworkMonitor brings in GSettings, which brings in DConf, which
[10:01] <asac>      * brings in a DBus session bus, which brings in pain. */
[10:01] <asac> very wise comment
[10:01] <ev> :)
[10:01] <ev> I *hate* GIO and everything it stands for.
[10:02] <asac>    /* Checking whether a NetworkManager connection is not enough.
[10:02] <asac>      * NetworkManager will report CONNECTED_GLOBAL when a route is not present
[10:02] <asac>      * when the connectivity option is not set. We'll use GNetworkMonitor here
[10:02] <asac>      * to fill in the gap. */
[10:02] <asac> ev: do you remember that one?
[10:02] <asac> connectivity option i dont know
[10:02] <asac> i think this monitor is probably the reason for flakiness
[10:02] <ev> I'd love to kill gnetworkmonitor, but we're not using the connectivity check, unless things have changed in recent times
[10:02] <asac> i have been working ona  network library using netlink and i know taht even if ou think you got it, it just sometimes doesnt work. e.g. kernel doesnt give you the right signals etc.
[10:02] <asac> ev: what is the connectivity check?
[10:03] <ev> some tin foil hat types didn't want to "phoning home" to determine connectivity
[10:03] <ev> despite just about everything else in the world doing it
[10:03] <ev> so rather than support it at the OS level
[10:03] <ev> we have to do it in a number of different places
[10:03] <asac> i dont understand
[10:03] <asac> why cant you just try if NM believs you can connect
[10:04] <asac> and then dont try again for 10, 20, 30 minutes if fail
[10:04] <ev> connectivity check> Hit a website and verify the response to make sure we're really, really online, and not just inside a captive portal
[10:04] <asac> ev: but you could try to connect if you have a crash; why even try to figure if you are really online that way?
[10:04]  * ev preps a branch to increase the logging around all of this
[10:05] <asac> ev: i also dont really think that the "can_reach" feature of netlink really helps you figuring if you can talk to that server
[10:05] <asac> it just guesses based on the routes that you have a path to get there
[10:05] <ev> asac: we don't verify the core file payload until much later in the process
[10:05] <asac> so if you are in hotel it will stll claim that you can connect
[10:05] <ev> so uploading a massive one into a captive portal would be quite wasteful
[10:06] <asac> ev: it would fail, no?
[10:06] <asac> or are they behaving like honeypos that accept whtever you http post to them?
[10:07] <ev> whoopsie would send the initial metadata to nowhere and get a 200 response back, so it would then send the core dump to nowhere
[10:07] <asac> ev: so i feel if we say we only check if server can really be reached if there isa  crash file that wew ould submit anyway afterwards
[10:07] <asac> its fine
[10:07] <ev> which is the wasteful bit
[10:07] <asac> otherwise just use the NM state to fast fail
[10:07] <ev> but yeah, maybe it's not worth the faff
[10:07] <ev> though it would mean we'd never get that core file
[10:07] <ev> but *shrugs* scale
[10:08] <asac> so 1. if NM connected to non_paid and if we have crash to work on, then check if we can connect and if success, hurry, process crash and submit
[10:08] <ev> if it's important we'll get it from someone
[10:08] <asac> if we cant connect we just wait for 10-30 minutes or for next state_changed event naturally
[10:08] <ev> it does process the queue every two hours regardless
[10:09] <ev> though hm, online if it thinks its online
[10:09] <asac> yes :)
[10:09] <ev> that is every two hours it checks
[10:09] <ev> eyah
[10:09] <ev> yeah even
[10:09] <pitti> rvr: good morning
[10:09] <asac> i really believe this stupid monitor check is what should die... rather do logic like above... do a hot call to serer if user has submit crash enabled AND there isa  crash avail :)
[10:10] <asac> i cant really think that someone feels that logic is calling home
[10:10] <asac> its really activity driven and not regular/random
[10:10] <pitti> rvr: I seem to remember that there was a bug about "compartment names not translated", but I can't find it anywhere; am I hallucinating? Otherwise I'll file a new one
[10:10] <rvr> pitti: Good morning!
[10:10] <ev> well they thought the general network manager connectivity check was "calling home"
[10:10] <asac> and the "can_reach" is buggy i am pretty sure and will tell you reachable if youare behind hotel bound
[10:10] <rvr> pitti: Yeah, there is, let me find it
[10:10] <asac> ev: oh you talk aobut a NM feature... well. i dont know that
[10:10] <ev> but yeah, I think we can eat the problem of crash reports being sent to a captive portal and being marked locally as submitted
[10:10] <pitti> rvr: not on your spreadsheet, not on the blueprint, not against unity8
[10:10] <asac> think if thats a problem we just do it on ourr own on demand
[10:11] <ev> for the sake of greatly simplifying this
[10:11] <pitti> rvr: erk, nevermind; "department", not "compartment"
[10:11] <pitti> rvr: (worst name *EVER*)
[10:11] <asac> ev: i dont know. why wouldnt we realized that the we didnt upload successfully?
[10:11] <pitti> rvr: bug 1343129?
[10:11] <rvr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-click/+bug/1343129
[10:11] <rvr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-click/+bug/1358776
[10:11] <asac> i mean we do a rest call and dont talk to our server, we surely wwill get a different answer than we expect
[10:12] <ev> asac: the protocol is pretty stupid - it just checks for a positive HTTP code
[10:12] <rvr> pitti: They are listed in the blueprint
[10:12] <ev> so if it gets 200 back, it assumes everything went okay
[10:12] <asac> ev: aaaanyhow... lets add some logging; we might be hunting a non-dragon :P
[10:12] <pitti> rvr: yeah, for some reason my brain told me "compartment" *sigh* :)
[10:12] <ev> which is what a captive portal is going to do
[10:12] <ev> yeah
[10:12] <ev> will do
[10:12] <asac> ev: you are using HTTP PUT without any wrapping protocol?
[10:13] <ev> POST, but yes
[10:13] <ev> it's BSON inside a POST
[10:14] <asac> ok cool you send a whoospie verwsion X header
[10:14] <asac> so we can change protocol to be smarter :)
[10:14] <asac> give at least a json OK :)
[10:14] <asac> answer
[10:14] <asac> lol
[10:14] <ev> yeah
[10:15] <asac> cool.
[10:15] <asac> well, in general i think we have far better report reliabiliy then a month back
[10:15] <ev> as you suggest, changing the protocol is a better way of solving this than layering a captive portal check on top
[10:15] <asac> so not super urgent. was just bad that i lost a hard to reproduce crash file
[10:15] <ev> glad to hear it
[10:15] <asac> because it was .upload
[10:15] <ev> adding the logging now while I mull dropping the captive portal check
[10:15] <asac> and not .uploaded
[10:15] <asac> heh
[10:16] <asac> butwell, i run into it one time every other day at minimum, so i will get it :)
[10:16] <asac> ev: can you change whoopsie to force overwrite new crashes
[10:16] <asac> even if .upload?
[10:16] <asac> such heurisitic would suite my purpose right now better
[10:17] <asac> ev: anywya. so now that i think about it, what usually works well is polling netlink. what is often not happening is getting proper events on change of routes etc.
[10:17] <asac> ev: so in case you find that this route logic is a problem, i would try to switch it to poll from listen for changes
[10:17] <asac> somehow
[10:17] <asac> but only after logging
[10:22] <jgdx> seb128, mako is fine re: time zone. Still trying to unbrick my other device.
[11:18] <rvr> pitti: I confirm the problem with Online Accounts, localization not working
[11:18] <pitti> rvr: yeah, I'm a bit stunned -- mo files are present, translations are complete, and I didn't even touch taht one yet with X-Use-langpack
[11:18] <pitti> rvr: ah wow, reading along with my German testing?
[11:19] <rvr> pitti: Yeah
[11:20] <pitti> rvr: I'll file a bug
[11:20] <rvr> pitti: Ok, I'll confirm it
[11:22] <pitti> rvr: done and put into the spreadsheet
[11:22] <pitti> rvr: I'll now add all my new bug reports to the blueprint
[11:22] <rvr> pitti: Awesome! You rock!
[11:22] <pitti> rvr: way too much red still :(
[11:23] <rvr> pitti: Indeed
[11:23] <pitti> rvr: heh, thanks, yw :)
[11:23] <pitti> although updating the pot of system-settings will fix quite a bunch of that
[11:26] <cwayne1> mardy: hey, so i got an account-plugin installed via click, but i cant get an .application to show up there, what do i need to put as the service id there?
[11:30] <seb128> jgdx, ok, thanks for testing
[11:32] <pitti> rvr: all done
[11:34] <rvr> pitti: \o/
[11:35] <rvr> pitti: What's your overall opinion? Too much red, isn't it?
[11:37] <pitti> rvr: yeah, of course; the manual pot update sucks
[11:39] <rvr> Yup
[11:41] <pitti> rvr: I'm just talking to seb128 to update the pot of system-settings, so that we get unblocked at least there (that's the largest chunk)
[11:42] <seb128> pitti, feel free to commit an update, please just do it with the branch I pointed merged locally, so you get all the strings
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: ah, good point
[11:42] <rvr> pitti: Great
[11:42] <seb128> most of the ones which are missing are due to the incomplete sources list, which that mp fixes
[11:42] <seb128> pitti, danke ;-)
[11:45] <cwayne1> mardy: alternatively, do you know what our policy is for what account-plugins can be seeded onto the image
[11:53] <mardy> cwayne1: hi! So, if your click package is also shipping a .service file, use <package-name>_<application-name> as service id
[11:53] <mardy> cwayne1: that is, the click package name without the version number
[11:55] <cwayne1> mardy: I tried that, no luck
[11:56] <cwayne1> i can add the account fine in system settings, and i do ship a .service, i just cant get anything applications to show up there
[12:03] <mardy> cwayne1: can I see the code?
[12:03] <cwayne1> mardy: sure, let me push it to a public place
[12:05] <cwayne1> mardy: lp:~cwayne18/+junk/fitbit-click-account
[12:06] <cwayne1> mardy: and emailed the .application
[12:06] <cwayne1> note i can get this same .application/scope to work perfectly with the debianized account-plugin in universe
[12:32] <pitti> sil2100: did you see my question about moving the x-use-langpack: stuff to RTM?
[12:33] <sil2100> pitti: hey! Sorry, missed it because of meetings/work, but I see the question now
[12:33] <pitti> no worries
[12:34] <sil2100> pitti: so it should be fine to do a source-package copy of those (Colin even mentioned binary copy possibilities) - you're from QA so I suppose you can assure the quality yourself ;)
[12:37] <pitti> sil2100: yes, source/binary copies do work, I did it this morning for the new langpacsk
[12:37] <pitti> sil2100: I was just wondering how that plays along with rtm branches, or whether it generally shouldn't be done
[12:38] <pitti> sil2100: e. g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/address-book-app/0.2+14.10.20140820-0ubuntu1 is something which we could trivially copy
[12:38] <cwayne1> stgraber: heya, can we et the custom channels setup for rtm channels?
[12:40] <asac> anyone knows how i can start the intro/tutorial/OOBE wizard thingy after the fact one more time to check something?
[12:42] <cwayne1> phablet-config welcome-wizard --enable
[12:42] <pitti> sil2100: ah, many of those don't even have rtm branches yet, so easy
[12:42] <sil2100> pitti: for what projects whould you like to do this?
[12:42] <sil2100> pitti: since if they don't have rtm branches, or are like ubuntu-rtm-focused, then you can simply go on and do the copy
[12:42] <pitti> sil2100: I'm just running through to see for which that is the only current change; currenlty, address-book-app, unity-scope-click, indicator-location (checking the others)
[12:43] <pitti> sil2100: right, my thinking
[12:43] <pitti> sil2100: not sure about https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-click/0.1.1+14.10.20140821.1-0ubuntu1
[12:43] <sil2100> pitti: for some projects that you are unsure maybe contacting upstream would be good, to make sure they're aware of something getting released there
[12:43] <pitti> sil2100: I suppose most changes that land today are meant for RTM, but for cases like these ^ we should ask the upstreams
[12:43] <pitti> sil2100: right
[12:43] <pitti> sil2100: I'll do the simple cases first to get them out of the way
[12:44] <sil2100> pitti: unity-scope-click doesn't have an RTM silo yet, so there's the risk that when copying you'll pull unwanted changes
[12:45] <pitti> sil2100: what does that mean, an "RTM silo"?
[12:45] <sil2100> pitti: so also try making sure you're not pushing anything else to RTM besides the wanted change
[12:45] <pitti> i. e. how are silos related to the package copies?
[12:45] <sil2100> pitti: a silo for ubuntu-rtm, since we have seperate silos for ubuntu and ubuntu-rtm
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: yes, I know what an "RTM silo" is, just don't know what they have to do with the package copies
[12:46] <sil2100> pitti: they're not directly related, I just mean that if someone just released something to ubuntu, but didn't release the same in ubuntu-rtm AND there is no ubuntu-rtm silo with these changes then we cannot do a src copy
[12:46] <pitti> sorry, sil2100
[12:47] <pitti> sil2100: I'm confused -- if someone already released the current ubuntun package to RTM, or have it in an RTM silo, we don't need the copy in the first place
[12:47] <pitti> we only need it for those ubuntu-only packges which are not in RTM yet
[12:47] <sil2100> pitti: right, but you only want to do srccopy of changes for langpacks, right?
[12:47] <pitti> meh, and of course people went right away and created RTM branches for everything, even though there are zero changes yet
[12:47] <seb128> that double workflow/landing is just crazyness
[12:47] <pitti> why oh why do we make our lives so ridiculously complicated and painful?
[12:47] <seb128> +1
[12:47] <pitti> this is the anti-thesis to velocity
[12:48] <sil2100> I didn't invent this ;)
[12:48] <seb128> just for the record I'm not landing anything to rtm, that's just ridiculous the way things are set up
[12:48] <pitti> if people want to work on changes which aren't ready for RTM, then *those* should be in separate branches
[12:48] <sil2100> Anyway, what I mean is:
[12:48] <pitti> as I'd expect most (all?) folks to work on RTM now
[12:48] <sil2100> You want to push langpack changes to RTM, and I just want you to make sure that when you do srccopies that nothing BESIDES those langpack changes is copied there
[12:48] <pitti> I already spent 3 days for super-simple changes which should have been done in 10 minutes
[12:48] <pitti> I'm really not feeling like doing that all over again TBH
[12:48] <sil2100> As we have a requirement of QA signing-off everything that goes through the CI Train to RTM
[12:49] <pitti> sil2100: ah, ok, then we might viciously agree, but just misunderstand
[12:49] <sil2100> Yeah, I'm changing the train to work with that now, i.e. that you can live without RTM bzr branches in case everything you develop is for RTM
[12:49] <pitti> sil2100: e. g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-click/0.1.1+14.10.20140821.1-0ubuntu1 -> not copy, as I don't know
[12:50] <pitti> sil2100: with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-location/13.10.0+14.10.20140820-0ubuntu1 -> yes, copy
[12:50] <pitti> sil2100: is that what you mean?
[12:50] <sil2100> pitti: yes, exactly ;)
[12:50] <pitti> ah, good
[12:51] <seb128> sil2100, how do you request a copy from utopic to rtm?
[12:51] <sil2100> pitti: well, I would generally say you could push all of that, since you're QA ( ;) ), but I think CI Train landings need some specific testing that needs to be done
[12:51] <pitti> $ copy-package -b --from ubuntu -s utopic --to ubuntu-rtm --to-suite 14.09 address-book-app
[12:51] <pitti> seb128: ^
[12:51] <seb128> pitti, that's not a request, that's doing it :p
[12:51] <pitti> well, that's doing it, not requesting, of course
[12:51] <seb128> is that fine?
[12:51] <seb128> like can we decide to copy stuff ourself like that?
[12:52] <seb128> I'm mostly asking for u-s-s
[12:52] <mardy> seb128: hi! Did something change in u-s-s logging? I cannot see the output of QML calls to console.log()
[12:52] <seb128> mardy, I don't know if it's u-s-s or qt or something else, we noticed that since early utopic
[12:52] <seb128> mardy, you can console.warn() and it works
[12:52] <seb128> mardy, if you have an idea what the issue is we would welcome help sorting it out though ;-)
[12:52] <pitti> I'd think, if an upstream says "I want everything to be in RTM that I do", they should just ask for that, and an archive admin copies?
[12:52] <sil2100> seb128: normally things should go through the train first, so anything that you land should land through CI Train (and have QA sign-off done)
[12:52] <sil2100> pitti: it's not that simple...
[12:52] <seb128> sil2100, so 2 train landings?
[12:52] <seb128> not going to happen
[12:53] <seb128> doing 1 is already annoying enough
[12:53] <seb128> I'm not going to double that work
[12:53] <pitti> sorry, but this is ... not efficient
[12:53] <mardy> seb128: uh, ok... in online-accounts that works, so I wonder what that could be...
[12:53] <sil2100> seb128: yes, but as I say, CI Train will make it a bit more automated, but anyway that's the deal
[12:53] <seb128> mardy, same here
[12:53] <seb128> sil2100, yeah, I refuse that deal, if you want stuff from me in rtm you are going to need to do the landing yourself for those
[12:53] <seb128> sil2100, sorry, not against you
[12:53] <sil2100> seb128: and basically the new rules say that you'll at least have to perform testing twice, once for ubuntu and once for ubuntu-rtm
[12:53] <seb128> but that's just ridiculous
[12:54] <sil2100> seb128: CI Train will help a bit - if you have a project that focuses on RTM (which I think u-s-s does?) then you will be able to select a dual landing
[12:55] <sil2100> i.e. you'll get 2 silos and will only have to build one, the other will build automatically with the same sources
[12:55] <sil2100> I'm working on that right now
[12:56] <sil2100> But anyway you'll need to perform testing TWICE - once checking the ubuntu sources against ubuntu images and once with the ubuntu-rtm binaries in rtm
[12:56] <sil2100> Aaaand then check for QA to sign-off your landing
[12:56] <seb128> sil2100, not going to happen sorry
[12:56]  * sil2100 wonders why there was no official annoucement about that
[12:56] <seb128> sil2100, I don't have 2 decides
[12:56] <seb128> "devices" even
[12:56] <pitti> well, and even if people do have two devices..
[12:57] <pitti> we are working on RTM now; let the pain of duplicate testing be on those who actually work on changes that are *not* going to RTM
[12:57] <seb128> +1
[12:57] <pitti> (i. e. work in branches)
[12:57] <seb128> we should test the result on the rtm image
[12:57] <seb128> and just pocket copy to utopic
[12:57] <sil2100> Right, but I guess people are worried that then utopic will be broken
[12:57] <sil2100> As no one will care about it anymore
[12:57] <seb128> it's lot of overhead to prevent little risk
[12:58] <seb128> if things are fine for rtm they should be safe for utopic
[12:58] <sil2100> But I don't know, I'm not the one with power here anywhere ;) I just try to make it as less painful in the current restrains as I can
[12:58] <sil2100> True
[12:58] <seb128> who is the one with power?
[12:58] <sil2100> I would say asac, then cjwatson
[12:59] <sil2100> And jfunk regarding QA topics
[12:59] <seb128> k
[12:59] <pitti> ok, just to understand this
[12:59] <pitti> why would folks *not* land https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network/0.5.1+14.10.20140824-0ubuntu1 in RTM? just because they don't know how yet, or it's too complicated?
[12:59] <sil2100> I'll probably send out some announcement for all this later on once eveyrhing is cleared
[12:59] <pitti> Wellark: ^
[13:00] <pitti> Wellark: i. e. would you like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network/0.5.1+14.10.20140824-0ubuntu1 get copied to RTM, or is that not for RTM?
[13:00] <seb128> pitti, well, for settings the reply is "I don't know how to land in rtm" combined with "I'm not going to duplicate the landing work"
[13:00] <sil2100> pitti: I don't know, it's up to the upstream to decide... but since it got released through the train it needs to go through the train again, so that it's tested by QA
[13:00] <seb128> shrug
[13:00] <pitti> it's the exact same binary .deb
[13:01] <Wellark> pitti: I will land everything from utopic once I've ready with my pending stuff
[13:01] <sil2100> Indeed, but according to the rules it needs to be tested by QA first :)
[13:01] <Wellark> it will be a mass MP
[13:01] <Wellark> just like everyone else
[13:01] <sil2100> Yeah, that can also work
[13:01] <Wellark> is doing
[13:01] <pitti> Wellark: ah, ok; so you'll just do a mass-sync every other week or so
[13:01] <pitti> Wellark: thanks (just trying ot understand how people will handle this)
[13:01] <Wellark> we are not going to do cherry picked MP's for everything for every landing to utopic
[13:02] <Wellark> that is not realistic
[13:02] <Wellark> I'm just stating how it is right now
[13:02] <seb128> the "sync every <period>" is going to create delay in having fixes in the rtm, and make less easy to catch new issues, since you get less granularity in landings
[13:02] <Wellark> to change this, go to my manager (thostr_)
[13:02] <ogra_> well, that actually forces you to test twice
[13:03] <Wellark> seb128: at least I know exactly what indicator-network is missing from RTM
[13:03] <ogra_> if you do a dual landing you can test the ubuntu side yourself and leave the rtm side to QA
[13:03] <Wellark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/indicator-network
[13:03] <seb128> ogra_, that would mean I need to keep my device on utopic to be able to test that, rather than using the rtm image
[13:03] <seb128> which seems not optimal
[13:05] <Wellark> I would suggest everyone else to also dual track their bugs in both ubuntu and ubuntu-rtm, but it's up to individual developers
[13:05] <pitti> sil2100: ok, I did the simple copies (where adding the tag was the only change), leaving the others for now
[13:07] <sil2100> pitti: thanks! Sorry for the confusion, it's all wobbly and blurrish right now anyway
[13:07] <pitti> sil2100: heh, indeed
[13:08] <sil2100> ogra_: I had a talk with asac and he says everyone is supposed to test twice anyway
[13:08] <sil2100> Still no answer from jfunk about that...
[13:08] <sil2100> Many conflictings rules here and there, we should have it just written down somewhere
[13:08] <pitti> we have 500 devs and 200 QA engineers, and nothing left to do, so we can certainly afford that :)
[13:09]  * pitti feels sorry for sil2100 for getting all the s***t about the branching
[13:09] <sil2100> And this is also one of the reasons why I still didn't send any official annoucemenet here
[13:10] <sil2100> pitti: no worries, got used to being chased by angry people with torches ;)
[13:10] <pitti> mardy: ah, thanks for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntu-system-settings/lp1361608/revision/946 !
[13:11] <mardy> pitti: still to be tested, I'm not sure if that will work :-)
[13:12] <jdstrand> jhodapp: hi! did you see my merge request for bug 1356883?
[13:13] <mardy> pitti: BTW, I cannot test it on the desktop... the system settings always show up in english, no matter how I play with LANG. Any suggestions?
[13:14] <pitti> mardy: perhaps you have $LANGUAGE set as well?
[13:14] <pitti> that trumps $LANG
[13:14] <mardy> pitti: ah, that works! I didn't even know it existed :-)
[13:22] <jhodapp> jdstrand: no I didn't
[13:47] <pmcgowan> mterry, you have work in progress for the messages on welcome screen control and the indicator profiles?
[13:47] <mterry> pmcgowan, link me?
[13:48] <mterry> Or maybe clarify your question
[13:49] <pmcgowan> ok one sec
[13:49] <ogra_> mterry, do you have a bug for switching back to swipe not working ?
[13:49] <ogra_> seems passwd -d cant be executed by the user
[13:50] <mterry> ogra_, right it can't.  You have to sudo it, but USS asks AccountsService to call it on its behalf
[13:50] <pmcgowan> mterry, the Messages on welcome screen defined here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings#Phone
[13:50] <mterry> ogra_, I don't have a bug about it, is the UI broken or just trying to do it on console?
[13:50] <ogra_> mterry, well, thats not working it seems
[13:50] <pmcgowan> ogra_, there is a bug
[13:50] <pmcgowan> although it worked for me yesterday
[13:50] <ogra_> if yyou try to go to swipe from PIN you end up with the PIN still set and the method set ot password
[13:51] <mterry> ogra_, huh just tried it myself and seemed to work on lastest image.  Are there other oddities or reproduction steps?
[13:51] <ogra_> mterry, on latest rtm ?
[13:52] <mterry> pmcgowan, no I'm not actively working on that checkbox
[13:52] <pmcgowan> mterry, ah ok
[13:52] <pmcgowan> ogra_, mterry  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1361137
[13:52] <mterry> ogra_, ah no, I did latest utopic
[13:52] <ogra_> pmcgowan, thanks :)
[13:52] <pmcgowan> yeah latest utopic works
[13:52] <ogra_> ah, ok
[13:52] <pmcgowan> not sure why
[13:52] <ogra_> i havent tried since the weekend
[14:00] <mardy> cwayne1: sorry for the delay; in the .application file, the service id should be "com.canonical.scopes.fitbit_fitbit"
[14:01] <mardy> cwayne1: and the .service file should be installed by the application, not by the account plugin
[14:02] <cwayne1> mardy: oh really? so the account plugin will only be the provider and qml-plugin/
[14:02] <mardy> cwayne1: yep
[14:02] <cwayne1> mardy: so do i need to set the service id in the .service to  be that, or does the click hook automagically do it
[14:04] <Wellark> pmcgowan: why did you choose to have ViewApn.qml ?
[14:04] <Wellark> which shows the values of the provisioned APNs?
[14:04] <Wellark> I don't see that in the UI spec
[14:04] <Wellark> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking#A.2BIBw-APN.2BIB0-
[14:07] <ogra_> cjwatson, hmm, something that just came up in a discussion ... how does meta get synced to rtm ?
[14:07] <pmcgowan> Wellark, there was no way to see the current settings in order to try to use them to make a custom set
[14:08] <Wellark> pmcgowan: sure there is
[14:08] <Wellark> just like it's in the spec
[14:08] <Wellark> the provision plugin populates the "Name:" and "AccessPointName" fiels
[14:08] <Wellark> if Name is available, show it in the checklist
[14:08] <Wellark> if not, show AccessPointname instead
[14:09] <Wellark> pmcgowan: but there is no additional spec anywhere, right?
[14:09] <pmcgowan> Wellark, as I recall the issue was the design conflated selecting an APN with actually making it active and just selecting to copy it
[14:10] <pmcgowan> Wellark, that design wont work because selecting it will fail
[14:10] <mardy> cwayne1: the id on the .service file is set automatically
[14:10] <Wellark> pmcgowan: selecting will fail? why?
[14:10] <cwayne1> ah, cool, let me give that a try
[14:10] <pmcgowan> Wellark, selecting means make it active
[14:11] <pmcgowan> making it active fails, cause you dont have a valid combination
[14:11] <Wellark> pmcgowan: ok. let's see it this way: if I can make it working without copying and having ViewApn.qml is it OK to remove it?
[14:11] <pmcgowan> which is why you want a custom one
[14:11] <pmcgowan> Wellark, sure, i could not make it work
[14:11] <Wellark> pmcgowan: valid combination of what?
[14:11] <pmcgowan> Wellark, I still think there is an issue with what checked means
[14:12] <pmcgowan> Wellark, the apn settings
[14:12] <Wellark> the provision plugin might actually get you multiple valid ones
[14:12] <pmcgowan> so the case is you have APNs defined but none ae correct for your network
[14:12] <pmcgowan> so then what
[14:12] <Wellark> as some providers let the user to select billing method by choosing between different accesspoints
[14:12] <pmcgowan> you cant read them to see whythey are wrong, and you cannot select them cause that fails
[14:12] <pmcgowan> Wellark, if youc an sort it thats fine with me
[14:13] <Wellark> ok.
[14:13] <pmcgowan> Wellark, just land it!
[14:13] <Wellark> if none of the provisioned settings works, then we just don't select any of them
[14:13] <Wellark> pmcgowan: yes yes
[14:13] <pmcgowan> Wellark, right in which case no info is pre-poluated
[14:14] <pmcgowan> design was just different from ios and andorid in a bug way
[14:14] <pmcgowan> sorry big
[14:14] <pmcgowan> ;)
[14:14] <Wellark> the provision plugin will populate even though there are none valid
[14:14] <Wellark> at least it should
[14:14] <Wellark> as long as it matches the operator
[14:14] <Wellark> if it does not then it's a bug
[14:14] <Wellark> anyway
[14:14] <Wellark> I will land it
[14:15] <Wellark> we can do bug fixes later
[14:15] <jgdx> pitti, hey, I'm having troubles using EmitSignal and arrays. Can you help?
[14:16] <Wellark> pmcgowan: I just need to do another roundtrip from NM to decide if any of the APN's have been activated successfully
[14:17] <pmcgowan> Wellark, I think we will get some feedback to adress so best to get something out to see how it works in real cases
[14:18] <cwayne1> mardy: same for the provider id?
[14:21] <Wellark> pmcgowan: ack
[14:21] <Wellark> pmcgowan: sorry, nack. I find it more fun just play around with code on some random branch and never release it ;P
[14:24] <pmcgowan> Wellark, </snark>
[14:24] <Wellark> oh wait.. that was the Nokia-way
[14:24] <ogra_> lol
[14:25] <Wellark> although they did it on entire product level
[14:27] <cwayne1> mardy: still nothing...
[14:41] <mardy> cwayne1: yes, all the id's are auto-filled
[14:41] <cwayne1> mardy: and so in the provider field in the .service, i should have 'com.account.plugin.fitbit_fitbit' right?
[14:41] <cwayne1> im still not getting anything showing up :/
[14:42] <mardy> cwayne1: yes. What does "find ~/.local/share/accounts/" say?
[14:43] <cwayne1> mardy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8150467/
[14:45] <pitti> jdstrand: what are you trying to do?
[14:47] <mardy> cwayne1: and can you show the .application and .provider files as well?
[14:48] <cwayne1> .application: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8150511/
[14:48] <cwayne1> .provider: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8150515/
[14:48] <cwayne1> mardy: ^
[14:50] <mardy> cwayne1: weird, how come the .application file has two <profile> elements?
[14:50] <mardy> cwayne1: try deleting one
[14:51] <Wellark> pmcgowan, Saviq, tsdgeos: check the description: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1361114
[14:51] <jdstrand> pitti: ?
[14:51] <pitti> hey jdstrand, how are you?
[14:51] <Wellark> so the design deviced to go with "Passcode" and leave the PIN for "SIM PIN"
[14:51] <pitti> jdstrand: argh, sorry; tab damage
[14:52] <pitti> jgdx: what are you trying to do?
[14:52] <Wellark> pmcgowan: hopefully that was not changed in system-settings yet.
[14:52] <jdstrand> pitti: hehe, hi to you too :) I'm good. you?
[14:52] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, belay that change ^^
[14:52] <pitti> jdstrand: quite fine, barring the usual headless-chicken-rtm-beta mode :)
[14:52] <Saviq> Wellark, obviously I don't have enough design pull
[14:53] <jdstrand> yes
[14:53] <jdstrand> I'm dealing with that a bit myself :)
[14:53] <jgdx> pitti, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8150544/ i.e. tell libqofono that that property has changed to ['foo
[14:53] <jgdx> ', 'bar']
[14:54] <Wellark> Saviq: so, that needs to be updated in the greeter on unity8 side at least
[14:54] <pitti> jdstrand: hm, that looks like "sas", not "sv"
[14:54] <Saviq> Wellark, yes
[14:54] <cwayne1> mardy: changed it, nothing
[14:54] <pitti> jdstrand: argh!
[14:54] <Wellark> pmcgowan: and the wizard should be checked to remove any "PIN" from there
[14:54] <pitti> jgdx: that looks like "sas", not "sv"
[14:55] <pitti> jgdx: or perhaps "sav" (just check the introspection of the real service)?
[14:55] <mardy> cwayne1: maybe it's because we changed the contents of the .service file... one more option is to delete all of your accounts, then delete ~/.config/libaccounts-glib/ and try again
[14:55] <dholbach> Community Q&A starting on http://ubuntuonair.com in about 5m. Today we'll have David Barth talking about HTML5 in Ubuntu.
[14:56] <pmcgowan> Wellark, is it in the wizard? do you know?
[14:56] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, great
[14:57] <pmcgowan> Wellark, kenvandine wizard still says passcode
[14:57] <cwayne1> mardy: !!!!
[14:58] <mardy> cwayne1: that worked or...?
[14:58] <cwayne1> mardy: yep!
[14:58] <Wellark> pmcgowan: great. it's a no-op for system-settings then
[14:58] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, so no change needed?
[14:58] <mardy> cwayne1: yes, libaccounts-glib assumes that the .service files never change
[14:58] <cwayne1> so now to figure out exactly what i've changed on device and actually put it in the click...
[14:58] <mardy> cwayne1: so it caches some info about them
[14:59] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, no, unity needs to revert now
[14:59] <kenvandine> ok
[15:00] <cwayne1> mardy: so i shouldnt have a <profile> line at all in my .application since its added automatically right
[15:01] <Wellark> pmcgowan, kenvandine: only place where plain "PIN" is used is under plugins/bluetooth
[15:01] <Wellark> inside system-settings
[15:01] <kenvandine> which should stay
[15:01] <kenvandine> right?
[15:01] <Wellark> I don't think there is any need to change to "Bluetooth PIN"
[15:02] <Wellark> as there is clear context of Bluetooth present
[15:02] <kenvandine> yeah
[15:02] <Wellark> so yeah..
[15:02] <Wellark> ubuntu-system-settings -> Invalid or Won't Fix
[15:12] <Cimi> mterry, welcome back - one thing I noticed, the combobox for the security looks quite ugly in that grey
[15:12] <Cimi> mterry, can we use  just the stroke color and make it transparent or something different?
[15:13] <mterry> Cimi, the whole security page in the wizard is un-designed.  I just landed something to get it functional, Design is still finishing up the visual design
[15:14] <jgdx> pitti, the real service reports 'sv'
[15:14] <jgdx> sorry for delay, had to get my phone working
[15:14] <Cimi> mterry, cool
[15:20] <seb128> jgdx, if you want to review https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/background-default-selection/+merge/232243 , that's a suggested fix/hack for the "default background is not displayed as selected bug"
[15:25] <jgdx> seb128, awesome
[15:26] <jgdx> seb128, you don't have armhf debs, do you?
[15:27] <seb128> jgdx, no, I just adb pushed the .qml
[15:27] <seb128> jgdx, but if you wait some hours for CI it's going to add a deb for you
[15:34] <pitti> jgdx: ah, so I guess you need to pack the array into a variant first?
[15:34] <jgdx> seb128, like so? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8150870/
[15:35] <jgdx> pitti, which of them? the args argument that EmitSignal expects?
[15:35] <seb128> jgdx, correct
[15:35] <jgdx> seb128, thanks
[15:35] <seb128> yw!
[15:35] <seb128> thanks for reviewing/testing it ;-)
[15:35] <jgdx> thanks for fixing it! :D
[15:36] <pitti> jgdx: yeah, like dbus.Array([], signature='s', variant_level=1) (untested)
[15:38] <jgdx> pitti, "Expected string or unicode object". :) Using http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8150905/
[15:39] <kenvandine> pitti, i had trouble with that wrapped in the emit
[15:39] <mpt> Is there any way to record a screencast from the phone? (I just need to capture a couple of seconds)
[15:40] <jgdx> pitti, gotta run. I'll see if I can figure it out later. Thanks for you help
[15:50] <cwayne1> mardy: got it 100% working now, even within the scope, thanks for your help!
[15:51]  * cwayne1 can also finally release that fitbit app I wrote 1 year ago now!
[15:54] <seb128> cwayne1, got fitbit support on utouch?
[15:54] <cwayne1> yar
[15:56] <seb128> great ;-)
[15:56] <seb128> cwayne1, does it do display datas only, or does it handle sync as well?
[15:57] <cwayne1> display data
[15:57] <seb128> k
[15:57] <cwayne1> sync works now on ubuntu desktop though :)
[15:57] <seb128> bluetooth ones as well?
[15:57] <seb128> or only the usb thing?
[15:57] <seb128> I looked a bit to that a year ago but stopped bothering when they added sync support for android
[15:57] <seb128> though now with ubuntu touch I could do without android ;-)
[15:59] <cwayne1> only the usb thing atm
[16:06] <popey> mpt: yes, mirscreencast
[16:07] <popey> mpt: it's a bit horrid, as you need to convert the video afterwards.
[16:07] <popey> mpt: it's _way_ easier to record with a phone pointed at it
[17:04] <cjwatson> ogra_: just copy it manually with copy-package -b?
[17:07] <ogra_> cjwatson, sure, i just wanted to know what was planned, since thats not actually very silo firendly
[17:07] <ogra_> (meta in general)
[17:16] <cjwatson> ogra_: nothing wrong with that, that just means you copy it directly
[17:16] <ogra_> yeah
[17:16] <cyphermox> seb128: hey, are you planning a landing of ubuntu-system-settings today? I have the fix for PIN requests ready
[17:17] <ogra_> heh, PIN is a pretty overloaded term on the phone now
[17:17] <ogra_> so many places with PINs in the images
[17:18] <cyphermox> ogra_: bluetooth devices sometimes require a PIN of their own to pair
[17:18] <ogra_> cyphermox, i know :)
[17:18] <cyphermox> you won't get away from multiple different meanings for this
[17:18] <cyphermox> anyway: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu-system-settings/providePinCode/+merge/232270 ready for review
[17:18] <ogra_> but my two sims alos use PINs ... then you can set a screen lock PIN ...
[17:18] <ogra_> *also
[17:18] <cyphermox> yeah
[17:19] <ogra_> muchly overloaded term :)
[17:19] <cyphermox> and you have PUK PINs on your SIMs too
[17:19] <awe_> ogra_, we labeled PIN -> Passcode on the lockscreen
[17:19] <ogra_> yay
[17:19] <awe_> so we get rid of one
[17:19] <ogra_> one less :)
[17:19] <dobey> too many PINs will make you PUK
[17:19] <ogra_> lol
[17:19] <awe_> d'oh
[17:19] <cyphermox> ogra_:  not really
[17:19] <cyphermox> ogra_: bluetooth devices also can have passcodes
[17:19] <ogra_> noooo !!!
[17:20] <cyphermox> interestingly, the PINs can be alphanumeric and size limited to something like 16 chars
[17:20]  * ogra_ runs screaming in circles and has his brain explode
[17:20] <cyphermox> but the passcodes are numeric only and at most 6 numbers long :)
[17:20] <cyphermox> find the error :)
[17:20] <ogra_> oh my
[17:21] <dobey> cyphermox: speaking of bluetooth, and since you're here… is it possible to connect a serial port bluetooth device on the phone yet?
[17:22] <cyphermox> dobey: it was always possible, you just need to do it manually on the cli
[17:22] <cyphermox> some fun use of bluez-test-device, bluez-test-serial and rfcomm
[17:22] <genii> From #ubuntu:  <noud_is_nol> now my Ubuntu Linux Touch did eat a SIM chip card, them tell me in the chip-shop
[17:23] <dobey> well sure i could of course do that. i mean through the UI
[17:23] <cyphermox> dobey: no, and I don't think there will
[17:23] <Wellark> pmcgowan: I now have OptionSelector http://imgur.com/2vDqtAy
[17:24] <dobey> cyphermox: hrmm, that's unfortunate. will it be possible to pair such a device and provide the UI to do so, in a confined click app?
[17:27] <cyphermox> dobey: I think you'll want to ask that to the SDK people
[17:27] <cyphermox> they can certainly provide the necessary abstraction for the bluez dbus bits to make this work
[17:28] <seb128> cyphermox, kenvandine is doing most of our landing nowadays, I think he has one planned yes
[17:29] <dobey> cyphermox: hrmm, are the bluez dbus bits made accessible through an apparmor policy to the apps?
[17:30] <ogra_> cyphermox, i would actually expect us to support more devices the more we connverge over time
[17:30] <ogra_> surely not now ... but in a year ...
[17:30] <dobey> serial profile is a pretty important thing to support, as a lot of devices use the serial profile to provide their features
[17:31] <jdstrand> apparmor currently doesn't allow that access
[17:31] <jdstrand> I believe Wellark has plans for the connectivity api for app-safe bluetooth access
[17:31] <Wellark> jdstrand: yes, I do
[17:31] <Wellark> what do you need?
[17:32] <Wellark> I have lots of plans
[17:32] <Wellark> and not enough beer ;(
[17:32] <Wellark> dobey: what do you need?
[17:33] <Wellark> dobey: I can create Ubuntu.Connectivity.Bluetooth as long as you have clear use case
[17:35] <dobey> Wellark: i've started working on an app in the few spare minutes i have, to support OBD-II scanning and such on the phone. the devices that plug into the OBD port in the car provide a serial profile interface, so i have to connect/find the device, and get the virtual serial port to communicate over
[17:35] <Wellark> dobey: sweet
[17:35] <Wellark> dobey: can't promise that for RTM, though ;)
[17:36] <Wellark> dobey: please file a bug against indicator-network (provides the connectivity-service) and describe what functionality and what BlueZ API's you need
[17:36] <dobey> i probably won't have my app ready to put in the store by then
[17:36] <dobey> ok
[17:36] <cyphermox> ogra_: right
[17:36] <Wellark> dobey: settings the device discovery aside
[17:37] <Wellark> dobey: the serial interface probably has some communication channel
[17:37] <Wellark> where you either send strings or raw binary
[17:37] <Wellark> dobey: something like
[17:37] <cyphermox> kenvandine: could you let me know if you have a system-settings landing planned today, I'd love to integrate my fix; it's quite small too :)
[17:38] <dobey> Wellark: it's a raw serial interface, and it supports various AT commands as well
[17:38] <Wellark> Ubuntu.Connectivity.Bluetooth.SerialInterface { id: serial; device: <device> }
[17:38] <Wellark> serial.send("hello\r\n")
[17:38] <Wellark> or serial.sendRaw({0x00, 0x01, 0x02})
[17:39] <Wellark> and then optionally a generic receive function
[17:40] <Wellark> Connections { target: serial; onReceived: { /* stings */ }, onReceivedRaw: { /* binary */ }}
[17:40] <Wellark> dobey: and if you expect immediate reply from the device then the send() would have a callback
[17:41] <Wellark> serial.send("foo", function (reply) { /* handle response */ }
[17:41] <Wellark> );
[17:41] <dobey> Wellark: well it'll be c++. i don't expect any serial comms API to exist for doing it in qml
[17:41] <Wellark> dobey: something like that?
[17:41] <Wellark> dobey: sure, there would be C++
[17:41] <Wellark> but why not also have QML? :)
[17:42] <dobey> Wellark: because QML was not meant for such things :)
[17:42] <Wellark> dobey: ever heard of node.js ?
[17:42] <dobey> Wellark: node.js isn't QML :)
[17:42] <Wellark> which is a server side JS environment to implement large scale web apps
[17:42] <Wellark> it's JS
[17:43] <Wellark> so, anything you can do with Js you can do with QML
[17:43] <dobey> yes, but QML isn't JS. you can use them together, but they are separate things
[17:43] <dobey> anyway
[17:43] <dobey> i don't care about qml
[17:43] <Wellark> dobey: nothing stops you from putting the whole business logic inside JS files + QML
[17:43] <Wellark> if you have sufficient QML APO
[17:43] <Wellark> *API
[17:43] <dobey> Wellark: business logic stops one from doing tha t;)
[17:44] <Wellark> dobey: sure :)
[17:44] <Wellark> dobey: just as an example, system-settings speaks to oFono through QML api alone
[17:44] <Wellark> so all of the usual "does not belong to QML" actually works quite nicely even when implemented in pure JS
[17:44] <dobey> ideally, my app would be given access to the /dev/foo/ttySwhatever001 an di could just get the path from bluez and open() it
[17:45] <Wellark> dobey: not gonna happen
[17:45] <dobey> Wellark: i didn't say it was not possible to abuse QML. i said it wasn't meant for that ;)
[17:45] <Wellark> without using a trusted helper like connectivity-service
[17:45] <Wellark> dobey: actually it was :)
[17:46] <Wellark> dobey: we can fight about this. but my first encounter with QML was when Nokia bought Trolltech and QML was just a promising prototype project :)
[17:46] <dobey> 13:40 < dobey> i don't care about qml
[17:46] <dobey> :)
[17:46] <Wellark> and the possibility of having all of the business logic as JS was on the roadmap from the start
[17:47] <vitimiti> Well, I do care bout QML and like it
[17:47] <vitimiti> heh
[17:47] <dobey> qml is too slow for what i'm doine
[17:47] <dobey> doing
[17:47] <Wellark> vitimiti: need an API to access Serial profile on Bt devices using QML ?
[17:47] <Wellark> vitimiti: just join forces with dobey  :)
[17:47] <dobey> and having to go through some other dbus service to do all the communication might be too
[17:48] <vitimiti> Wellark, I am building a nursing+doctors+patients app
[17:48] <Wellark> anyway, it's a lot easier for me to justify the next expansion of the Connectivity API if I have real hard data on features that people want to use on their projects
[17:48] <vitimiti> Now I have to make sure I can connect to a MySQL database
[17:48] <Wellark> vitimiti: that's a though one
[17:49] <Wellark> vitimiti: I would suggest you do it over the network with REST of someting
[17:49] <vitimiti> That's what's needed for my project, since it would allow me to have all the patients data and interact with it
[17:49] <vitimiti> After all, SQL is the number one language in health care for a reason, I guess...
[17:50] <vitimiti> Wellark, is it as safe as a username and a password for MySQL?
[17:50] <Wellark> vitimiti: if you do it over HTTPS, then yes
[17:50] <vitimiti> This government can't afford HTTPS, I'm afraid
[17:51] <vitimiti> For some reason, probably they're just lazy
[17:52] <dobey> you'd think they could legislate themselves as a CA and also legislate that all SSL software delivered in their country must include their CA
[17:52] <Wellark> vitimiti: you are in South Korea?
[17:52] <vitimiti> You'd think wrong
[17:52] <vitimiti> I mean, they could, but they won't
[17:52] <Wellark> I've heard they don't do HTTPS there
[17:53] <Wellark> like the only country in the world
[17:53] <dobey> unless you're talking about regional governments
[17:53] <beuno> so, unless the transport mechanism is encrypted, it can't be secure
[17:53] <Wellark> indeed.
[17:53] <vitimiti> Wellark, it's Spain
[17:53] <vitimiti> hah
[17:53] <vitimiti> We are using Windows Vista Inspirat (which is just XP with Vista looks) in some hospitals, yet
[17:53] <vitimiti> still*
[17:53] <Wellark> XD
[17:53] <Wellark> "XP with Vista looks"
[17:53] <Wellark> what's the point in that! :D
[17:54] <ogra_> impressing key account managers
[17:54] <Wellark> cheap "upgrade"
[17:54] <vitimiti> Wellark, good question
[17:54] <ogra_> yeah, its cheapand you get the known viruses for free
[17:54] <vitimiti> And the problem here is that health care is handled by regional governments, not the government itself
[17:54] <Wellark> vitimiti: QML does not have any "secure" communication modules yet
[17:54] <vitimiti> So I want to make an app that serves these kind of countries, too
[17:55] <vitimiti> I am trying to implement it with js
[17:55] <Wellark> so you absolutely must have c++ components to get you a safe connection to the MySql database
[17:55] <vitimiti> I see
[17:55] <Wellark> vitimiti: actually
[17:55] <Wellark> you could get away with that
[17:55] <vitimiti> Hm
[17:55] <Wellark> only if ubuntu phone would support VPN
[17:55] <Wellark> which I'm also working on
[17:55] <Wellark> if the device is guaranteed to always use VPN
[17:56] <Wellark> then it does not matter if your QML compoonent is sending the passwords unecrypter
[17:56] <beuno> well, it always matters
[17:56] <nhaines> Well, much less.
[17:56] <Wellark> and for a medical applicance, using VPN would pretty much be a must anyway
[17:56] <beuno> you could have something inside the network sniffing
[17:56] <vitimiti> Yes, VPN is used all the time
[17:56] <dobey> nothing is secure.
[17:56] <Wellark> beuno: not, if the VPN connects to a hospital secured network
[17:56] <vitimiti> And people give away their passwords, but well
[17:56] <Wellark> which you don't have physical access to
[17:57] <beuno> well, networks are rarely secure
[17:57] <Wellark> only people who could do sniffing then are the sys-admins
[17:57] <beuno> which is why you'd want client<>server encryption, always
[17:57] <Wellark> who have root access to the DB's anyway
[17:57] <Wellark> beuno: sure
[17:57] <nhaines> Or any rogue device on the VPN.
[17:57] <vitimiti> Yeah
[17:57] <Wellark> nhaines: does not matter
[17:57] <Wellark> when Switches are used in the network
[17:58] <vitimiti> The only reason this hospital hasn't been cracked yet is because you can only get to their network from the inside
[17:58] <vitimiti> That's what Wellark is suggesting
[17:58] <Wellark> single device can't just eavesdrop on other devices
[17:58] <beuno> so managing credentials and any sensitive data without end-to-end encryption is pretty irresponsible
[17:58] <dobey> http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070529000016/x-files/images/f/f6/Trust_No_One_tagline.jpg
[17:58] <Wellark> vitimiti: patient record systems are actually really close to my heart
[17:58] <Wellark> if you need any assistance just ping me
[17:59] <vitimiti> Wellark, I want to build this app so it works on phone, tablet and desktop, so if it depends on callings... I could use VPN on dekstop and tablets anyway, right?
[17:59] <beuno> vitimiti, maybe you could VPN from your app instead
[17:59] <Wellark> vitimiti: right now it would help if you file a bug against indicator-network stating that you have an app that requires VPN
[17:59] <beuno> embed a VPN library
[17:59] <Wellark> that way we might get VPN on the list for the next cycle features
[17:59] <nondem> So, you guys doing dev work on Ubuntu - do you have day jobs as well?
[17:59] <beuno> I don't think you'd want to VPN the whole connection?
[17:59] <beuno> just the app, right?
[18:00] <Wellark> vitimiti: the same VPN would be available on any ubuntu device: phone, desktop, tablet
[18:00] <vitimiti> I'm not that smart, beuno, I can create this app if it uses things that exist. It's mostly looks and portability
[18:00] <vitimiti> Wellark, how would I do that?
[18:00] <Wellark> vitimiti: you cant right now
[18:00] <dobey> well, you don't vpn the app, you vpn the route to the destination IPs. so any app connecting to those IPs go through the VPN
[18:00] <vitimiti> Wellark, I'm actually a nurse that likes programming, hah. I will wait till I can VPN
[18:01] <Wellark> vitimiti: but if we get it to the list of next cycle features, you could do it when 15.04 is released
[18:01] <vitimiti> Yeah, Wellark, I'd love to, how do I file that bug?
[18:01] <dobey> but i suspect "modifying the route" is probably not something that apparmor will allow apps to do
[18:01] <Wellark> vitimiti: nothing stops you from prototyping and developing without VPN
[18:01] <Wellark> dobey: not apps, but connectivity-service can
[18:01] <Wellark> it's a planned feature
[18:02] <vitimiti> Wellark, yeah, I will build it all except from the VPN connection, of course
[18:02] <dobey> sure, but allowing apps to configure a VPN seems a bit insecure in itself
[18:02] <Wellark> dobey: no, the apps would not configure them
[18:02] <pmcgowan> Wellark, thats better
[18:02] <vitimiti> The apps should use it
[18:02] <Wellark> they can require a certain VPN to be up and running
[18:03] <Wellark> vitimiti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+filebug
[18:03] <vitimiti> Thanks, Wellark
[18:03] <Wellark> just set the Summary to something like "VPN support is missing."
[18:04] <vitimiti> So VPN+REST? Sounds about right
[18:04] <Wellark> vitimiti: leave the REST out of the bug
[18:04] <Wellark> vitimiti: but yes.
[18:04] <vitimiti> Yeah, yeah
[18:04] <Wellark> :)
[18:04] <vitimiti> I will just file the VPN part
[18:04] <kenvandine> cyphermox, just finished a landing
[18:04] <vitimiti> And I should really start pushing the project to bzr instead of git, too
[18:05] <cyphermox> kenvandine: ah, alright then, I'll make my own
[18:05] <kenvandine> cyphermox, cool
[18:05] <kenvandine> cyphermox, well... my previous landing hasn't merged into trunk yet
[18:05] <kenvandine> cyphermox, so don't build yet
[18:06] <kenvandine> cyphermox, but go ahead and get it on the spreadsheet
[18:06] <vitimiti> Oh, there's a bug summarized as VPN is not supported
[18:06] <vitimiti> Perfect
[18:07] <vitimiti> It's been changed as invalid
[18:08] <Wellark> vitimiti: just file a new bug
[18:08] <Wellark> vitimiti: I will take care of the rest
[18:08] <vitimiti> Wellark, alright
[18:08] <Wellark> vitimiti: try to explain the use cases and requirements of your app as detailed as possible
[18:09] <Wellark> vitimiti: as your apps seems like a perfect example of a secured QML application which we want to have on our platform
[18:10] <Wellark> vitimiti: I can't and will not promise that we have everything you need by 15.04
[18:10] <Wellark> but having a such bug filed by a member of the app developer community is a good starting point
[18:11] <vitimiti> Wellark, at least it will be considered and you will try, yeah
[18:11] <Wellark> so I can then refer back to the bug when I try to push my crazy ideas ;)
[18:11] <vitimiti> haha
[18:12] <Wellark> dobey: same goes to you --^
[18:12] <Wellark> remember to file that bug
[18:13] <Wellark> and just my 2c, having an OBD reader would be super cool
[18:14] <Wellark> that also allows to create custom car "Heads up Displays" as you get information like the motor RPM and whatnot
[18:15] <dobey> well, it will also eventually be able to flash the ECU. because i need to program the ECU for the engine i'm building, and i'd rather learn all the internal bits than just spend $500 for some windows app
[18:15] <Wellark> cool.
[18:15] <Wellark> dobey: i
[18:16] <Wellark> I'm with you. just file the bug and we will make it happen :)
[18:16] <vitimiti> Wellark, https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1361793
[18:16] <vitimiti> Bug filed
[18:16] <dobey> heh
[18:16] <Wellark> vitimiti: thanks
[18:16] <dobey> right now i'm fighting with unity8 though :-/
[18:16] <Wellark> vitimiti: I will split that up to multiple sub bugs for all the related projects
[18:17] <vitimiti> Perfect for me
[18:17] <Wellark> but that might not happen tomorrow
[18:17] <Wellark> but the main point is that the bug is there to remind me
[18:17] <vitimiti> Yeah, I know it'll take time, I'll just start working on the patient's interface and then the professional's interface
[18:18] <Wellark> vitimiti: i'm sure that will keep you busy for a while :)
[18:18] <vitimiti> For at least a year? Sure
[18:18] <vitimiti> heh
[18:19] <vitimiti> There's a lot to do for only one person
[18:19] <vitimiti> And I want it to change the looks if the screen is horizontal/the program is maximized like I've seen on some QML apps like Friends app
[18:21] <vitimiti> I can't wait to buy my first Ubuntu phone and tablet, for real
[18:21] <cm-t> Hi, I am not sure to understand the ubuntu-rtm. I am a daily user on mako, should I keep using devel on it is not anymore updated and should go on ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09 ?
[18:21] <Wellark> vitimiti: just remember that if you get stuck, #ubuntu-app-devel is always there for you
[18:21] <cjwatson> cm-t: You can keep using devel.
[18:21] <vitimiti> Wellark, didn't know, I'll join that channel for sure
[18:22] <cm-t> cjwatson: ty
[18:22] <Wellark> vitimiti: welcome to the family :)
[18:22] <vitimiti> Wellark, hahaha
[18:22] <vitimiti> thanks!
[18:26] <mihir> nik90: i'll confirm with popey tomorrow and make changes accordingly.
[18:26] <nik90> milli: np
[18:26] <nik90> oops wrong person
[19:05] <jgdx_> greyback__, ping
[19:07] <cm-t> on devel: some app just crash on their loading screen, and if I keep clicking on their icon to relaunch, it make appear the "plymouth?" COF and never come back to the session. these apps are dekko, camera, utorch,
[19:10] <cm-t> wow, i tryed to launch utorch twice, get force to have the COF, not gettting the session, and now I can't make it reboot, just got the Google boot screen
[19:10] <cm-t> (mako)
[19:12] <cm-t> saw 2 time the google boot screen, add to use the power button to see it since it was off; the 3rd time I saw 2 time the google boot screen before COF and now can see the session…
[19:12] <cm-t> weird
[19:13] <cm-t> (other topic: yesterday night, SIM wasnt detected for 3 reboot. I think it was after trying to launch dekko, not sure to remeber)
[19:16] <Wellark> pmcgowan: is it possible to patch QOfono ?
[19:16] <Wellark> the API just sucks so hard for addContext()
[19:18] <Wellark> pmcgowan: actually. never mind. the interal implementation does not make it easy to "fix" it
[19:18] <Wellark> !"#!"¤!"
[19:19] <Wellark> pmcgowan: i will just an appropriate comment on the source code.
[19:20] <Wellark> probably nsfw'
[19:23] <jgdx_> Wellark, libqofono you mean?
[19:24] <fadddddddws> i just installed ubuntu touch on my nexus 4.  it was missing a lot of the features shown on the youtube videos.  For example, I did not have a homescreen.  Are there other versions i can try?
[19:24] <Wellark> jgdx_: yes.
[19:24] <jgdx_> Wellark, I just made one. Or rather, I make a PR against libqofono[1] and then Ken picks it up and patches it. :) [1] https://github.com/nemomobile/libqofono/
[19:24] <Wellark> jgdx_: good for you! :)
[19:24] <Wellark> jgdx_: let's fix the whole library after the RTM
[19:25] <jgdx_> Wellark, anyway, it's possible to patch it.
[19:25] <Wellark> fadddddddws: the design has changed quite a lot from what you see in the videos from  ~7 months ago
[19:26] <Wellark> or is it 19 moths already..
[19:26]  * Wellark can't remember when the videos got up
[19:26] <Wellark> fadddddddws: to get the latests and greatest
[19:26] <Wellark> fadddddddws: do $ ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel
[19:27] <Wellark> or if you like to live on the edge:
[19:27] <Wellark> $ ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel-proposed
[19:28] <Wellark> if you don't have any data you want to keep around, append --bootstrap to the commands
[19:36] <cm-t> … for utorch, just removed it and re-installed, it reworks. I don't know why it was forcing the system to do weird thing, but more important, how it came to this bad state
[19:39] <fadddddddws> Thanks very much Wellark!
[19:42] <Wellark> fadddddddws: thank you for giving the image a spin :)
[19:49] <S0-2> Hi
[19:49] <S0-2> I'm using 14.10 on a Nexus 7. What's the password for the user 'phablet'?
[19:50] <Wellark> S0-2: it's whatever you set the Passcode in the first run Wizard
[19:51] <S0-2> Ah, I must've tried everything but that.
[19:52] <S0-2> Thanks a lot!
[19:52] <Wellark> S0-2: np.
[20:03] <cm-t> reinstalled dekko utorch and camera, all reworks
[20:03] <cm-t> that was… weird
[20:09] <Kaleo> nik90, nice job on the clock reboot!
[20:09] <nik90> Kaleo: thnx
[20:09] <Kaleo> nik90, the only one thing that looks odd to me is the really small fonts in some places
[20:09] <Kaleo> nik90, xx-small is meant to be used in very few cases I think
[20:09] <nik90> Kaleo: I triple checked that with the designers but they insisted on that
[20:09] <Kaleo> nik90, have they seen it on device?
[20:09] <nik90> Kaleo: yes
[20:10] <Kaleo> darn
[20:10] <nik90> Kaleo: they installed clock reboot from the store and tried it out and gave some initial feedback
[20:10] <Kaleo> cool
[20:10] <nik90> Kaleo: we will be replacing the old clock app tonight :D
[20:10] <nik90> in the daily images
[20:11] <Kaleo> nik90, TONIGHT!
[20:11] <Kaleo> :)
[20:11] <Kaleo> nik90, ok
[20:11] <nik90> Kaleo: :-)
[20:12] <Kaleo> rpadovani, hello there, can you review an ubuntu-calculator-app MR?
[20:13] <Kaleo> rpadovani, https://code.launchpad.net/~fboucault/ubuntu-calculator-app/noqmlproject/+merge/232311
[20:19] <popey> nik90: TONIGHT!? ☻
[20:19] <nik90> popey: looks like it :D
[20:20] <nik90> popey: elopio is currently evaluating it
[20:21] <nik90> popey: btw I think I may have figured out how to improve the startup performance. This should result in silky smooth startup animations :D
[20:22] <Cimi> kenvandine, hey :) any good tutorial where to start?
[20:23] <Cimi> kenvandine, I started importing Bacon2D and but GameView is not found... something weird here
[20:24] <popey> nik90: oh really.
[20:24] <nik90> popey: yes really :D :D
[20:27] <S0-2> I have added https://launchpad.net/~gqrx/+archive/ubuntu/snapshots?field.series_filter=utopic this PPA to my Ubuntu touch using add-apt-repository ppa:gqrx/snapshots, then ran apt-get update but apt-get still complains "E: Unable to locate package gqrx"
[20:30] <Cimi>  hah, gameview was a local type
[20:39] <dobey> S0-2: ask the owner of the ppa for help :)
[20:44] <kenvandine> Cimi, Game is the component
[20:44] <Cimi> kenvandine, yup I was looking at pathwind
[20:44] <kenvandine> Cimi, i have like a half done tutorial :)
[20:45] <Cimi> I would like to fix pathwind, I think there is sth weird in the physics of fly
[20:46] <Cimi> kenvandine, I think it should keep flying when you hold the button
[20:46] <Cimi> it feels like the impulse ends
[20:46] <kenvandine> it does :)
[20:46] <kenvandine> you run out of fuel
[20:46] <kenvandine> it's flappy bird like
[20:47] <kenvandine> so you fly until you are out of fuel
[20:47] <kenvandine> and it refills quickly when not flying
[20:47] <Cimi> I see
[20:47] <Cimi> quite hard
[20:48] <kenvandine> it could be better :)
[20:48] <kenvandine> but it is supposed to be frustrating
[20:48] <kenvandine> to some extent


[07:48] <dreamhawk> Hello, do anyone have an idea why... when i sometimes start PyCharm (installed with tar.gz, not snap) it just blacks out my monitors? I have to Alt+F6 to enter a shell and kill pycharm process...
[07:49] <dreamhawk> When i then start pycharm again, it can work. Otherwise it blacks the monitors again and i have to kill the process again.
[08:37] <user|59> there is nowhere promted any login/password i need to use to just start installation, why installation process so rude from the start
[08:43] <user|59> okay, it's virtual box issue
[08:45] <user|59> there's need to use VBoxVGA instead of VMSVGA to interface started properly
[08:46] <user|59> whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy so haaaaaaaaaaaaard
[08:55] <user|59> okay installation process crashed when i tried to get back in steps and change partition tab on drive
[13:14] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:44] <sgmoore> Hello


[00:02] <xelister|DRUNK> could we set this  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/664533  to Critical? isnt it critical?? Milions of users will have ubuntu NOT INSTALLABLE at first attempt - seems a totall fail
[00:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 664533 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer stuck on keyboard layout selection (affects: 7) (heat: 75)" [High,Confirmed]
[00:03] <paultag> xelister|DRUNK: it's not rendering it unusable. I won't change it, medium is correct. I share your troubles, but I disagree on severity
[00:03] <penguin42> paultag: Not being able to install is pretty bad
[00:03] <paultag> penguin42: yes, but it looks like when you type the name out of the menu, right?
[00:04] <paultag> I glanced at it until I saw watson on there
[00:04] <paultag> cjwatson knows his stuff, and I trust his judgement :)
[00:04] <penguin42> paultag: Not sure, I can't actually rememember the details
[00:04] <penguin42> yeh
[00:04] <paultag> penguin42: I think it was just hardcoded QWERTY
[00:05] <paultag> it's a nasty bug, but not critical, I don't think
[02:24] <RedSingularity> paultag:  You here buddy?
[02:27] <RedSingularity> hggdh:  You?
[02:30] <RedSingularity> Are there any bug controllers available at the moment?
[05:03] <rusivi> Quick backporting v. SRU clarification question, AFAIK, SRU is for serious/security/many people affected issues. However, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#request-new-packages notes that "We will reject any Backports requests for bugfixes if SRU has not been attempted." What happens if the bug is a minor, non-security bug that could be fixed by backporting a newer version of the software (from Natty/Maverick) in
[05:03] <rusivi> to Lucid? Seems wasteful to go through the SRU process for something that will get rejected...
[05:03] <RedSingularity> Anyone know the next HUG day?
[05:12] <micahg> rusivi: which package?
[05:13] <rusivi> micahg: just inquiring don't have an example in mind. Does it matter if core-application v. non-core?
[05:14] <micahg> rusivi: basically, if it's a bug fix that would be beneficial to users and the changeset is small, and SRU is the way to go, backports are usually for new functionality
[05:15] <rusivi> micahg: Ok, ty for clarifying. It seems, when in doubt, SRU first?!
[05:16] <micahg> rusivi: when in doubt, ask :)
[05:16] <rusivi> micahg: haha!
[05:27] <RedSingularity> micahg:  This user thinks this is a real bug.  I honestly dont think so.  I think it is a feature request which is why I offered him ubuntu brainstorm.  Maybe wishlist.  What do you think?  He took the liberty and marked it triaged as well.  bug 695186
[05:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 695186 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade manpage should be in -core with the binary (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/695186
[05:28] <micahg> RedSingularity: it is a bug
[05:28] <micahg> RedSingularity: and the reporter
[05:28] <micahg> the reporter's a core-dev :P
[05:30] <RedSingularity> micahg:  It seems like a feature request though.  Moving the location of a man page.
[05:30] <micahg> RedSingularity: it's in the wrong package, that's a bug
[05:34] <RedSingularity> micahg:  He is a dev for the update-manager-core package?
[05:34] <micahg> RedSingularity: no, he's an ubuntu core-dev
[05:37] <RedSingularity> micahg:  Oh thats just dandy.    I know you do a lot of work with firefox.  How did you get to know it so well with debugging and all?
[05:42] <micahg> RedSingularity: you don't have to know how every package works, but if you want to know a specific package, you should look at the packaging and work with it
[05:43] <RedSingularity> micahg:  You mean the source code?
[05:43] <micahg> yes
[05:44] <RedSingularity> micahg:  thats just it though.  I dont know programming language.
[05:44] <micahg> RedSingularity: so don't worry about then, triaging is still very helpful
[05:46] <RedSingularity> micahg:  You know anyone off hand that works with update-manager?
[05:47] <micahg> RedSingularity: mvo is the main developer
[05:55] <micahg> RedSingularity: I learned by being mentored by the Firefox maintainer
[05:58] <RedSingularity> micahg:  That makes sense.  I guess I need to look into getting a mentor in the proper area.  Thanks.  :)
[05:59] <micahg> RedSingularity: well, for that type of mentorship I think there's a real commitment expected
[06:13] <RedSingularity> micahg:  you mean there is a commitment in that package or in mentorship?
[06:14] <micahg> RedSingularity: I would think helping with the package
[06:15] <RedSingularity> micahg:  Not that there is a problem with that but why so?
[06:17] <micahg> RedSingularity: well, it really depends what you want to work on, if it's something where a lot of people have knowledge, there'd probably be less expectation, but if it's one on one, it's different
[06:17] <RedSingularity> micahg:  ah
[06:22] <micahg> RedSingularity: in any case, it'll be at the discretion of the person in question
[06:23] <RedSingularity> micahg:  When being mentored what is the preferred way of communication during the session?  IRC?
[06:23] <micahg> RedSingularity: depends on the person in question :)
[07:18] <somethinginteres> Am I correct in thinking that clicking on the currently playing song in the sound menu should bring the app playing the music into focus?
[07:24] <kklimonda> somethinginteres: you are wrong
[07:24] <kklimonda> somethinginteres: clicking on the currently playing song copies its data to the clipboard
[07:25] <kklimonda> which must be the most useless and the least discoverable feature I've seen in the last few years.
[07:25] <kklimonda> good morning :)
[07:25] <somethinginteres> kklimonda: OK thanks - thought it might have been a bug
[08:35] <paultag> RedSingularity: yo
[08:36] <paultag> RedSingularity: just heading to bed at some point, are you taken care of?
[11:09] <Elbrus> Can somebody please mark 695040 as triaged? Upstream won't fix it, but I confirm the problem.
[11:10] <Elbrus> bug 695040 that is.
[11:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 695040 in winff (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "The italian language GUI is impossible to reed in same voices (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/695040
[14:39] <xteejx> Hey guys
[14:40] <xteejx> Is anyone here that can help me with something and spare maybe 5-10 minutes please? It's completely off-topic but as most of you know I am usually involved with Ubuntu Bug Control and can't find any help elsewhere
[14:40] <BUGabundo> howdy
[14:41] <xteejx> Hey BUGabundo
[14:41] <xteejx> :)
[14:42] <xteejx> It's a script written in AutoIt (GPL v3 licenced) so I want to get it working and then if possible re-release it, since upstream has stagnated but it could be useful
[15:37] <anoteng> is there any policy on expiring old needs-packaging bugs? There's a lot of bugs filed against projects that are dead upstream, have incompatible licenses, clearly defective etc.
[15:43] <yofel> well, there is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Needs%20Packaging%20Bugs - probably best to set them incomplete if they don't met the requirements and wait for LP to expire them
[15:43] <yofel> *meet
[15:48] <anoteng> yofel: thanks.
[16:01] <hjd> Hi. Anything more I should do to bug 685794 beyond setting it to fix released? I asked the reporter to test with the latest updates, which solved the problem.
[16:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 685794 in k3b (Ubuntu) "k3b crash during start (Segmentation fault (11)) (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685794
[16:04] <paultag>  /window 25
[16:04] <paultag> ohi shucks, sorry guys
[16:05] <yofel> hjd: Set it to fix released, the stacktrace does look like the solid related crash the patch fixes.
[16:07] <hjd> yofel: done. thanks.
[17:11] <gobbe> could someone help me with bug 693745. It seems that it's just configuration misatake on user, should i now just close this?
[17:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 693745 in ntp (Ubuntu) "wront time report for turkey (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693745
[17:11] <gobbe> i'm quite new with bug hunting, trying to contribute :)
[17:12]  * penguin42 looks
[17:13] <gobbe> thanks
[17:13] <gobbe> i tried to reproduce problem with two machines, without luck :)
[17:14] <gobbe> it seems that users clock is too far away, and of course then ntp wont fix time without first making it more closer with ntpdate
[17:14] <penguin42> gobbe: Has the timezone stuff in turkey changed - he's running a Hardy setup so I wonder if it's changed since then?
[17:14] <gobbe> i tried with hardy
[17:14] <gobbe> also
[17:14] <penguin42> with the turkish timezone?
[17:14] <gobbe> yep
[17:15] <gobbe> i have several spare servers for testing purpose like this :)
[17:15] <gobbe> that's why i thought that i could contribute to ubuntu more =)
[17:16] <penguin42> it does look like he has the clock out by an hour doesn't it
[17:16] <gobbe> yep
[17:16] <penguin42> why is his ntptime failing though?
[17:16] <gobbe> firewall
[17:16] <penguin42> or is it just because his time is too far out - greater than the maximum?
[17:16] <gobbe> i'v seen several cases where firewall blocks ntp :)
[17:16] <gobbe> ntpdate shouldnt fail
[17:17] <gobbe> like you see it cannot even connect
[17:17] <penguin42> possible; but I'm not sure I've ever seen a firewall let everything else through but not ntp; I guess it's possible
[17:18] <gobbe> well we cannot say that everything else goes thru it?
[17:18] <penguin42> true
[17:18] <gobbe> but anyway, i tried it with two different installations without luck
[17:18] <gobbe> ntpdate works atleast, ntp of course is not able to change time because hes current machine's time is too far away
[17:19] <penguin42> he hasn't actually put an answer to any error from ntpdate to ntp.ubuntu.com Ig uess
[17:20] <gobbe> yep, havent
[17:20] <gobbe> so just wait?
[17:22] <penguin42> could leave it with a 'ok well if you can try ntpdate to a server you can get to' or reset the time by hand, and leave it at incomplete; it'll timeout if he doesn't get around to it
[17:22] <gobbe> ok
[17:22] <gobbe> i'll do that
[17:23] <gobbe> just wanted some advice c's havent worked with ubuntu bugs ever before, even hangin around in irc channels and providing support since 2005 :)
[17:23] <penguin42> yeh, I'm not the best person to ask for the right procedures
[17:30] <gobbe> :)