[00:50] <bkerensa> jono: where is accomplishments code?
[00:54] <jono> bkerensa, you mean the system itself of the accomplishments collection?
[00:55] <bkerensa> jono: Yeah... can I bzr branch it from somewhere or git clone? :)
[00:55] <jono> bkerensa, you mean the system itself of the accomplishments collection?
[00:55] <bkerensa> yeah the system ^
[00:55] <bkerensa> I assume you have a source package?
[00:55] <jono> bkerensa, the daemon is at lp:ubuntu-accomplishments-daemon and the viewer is at lp:ubuntu-accomplishments-viewer
[00:56] <bkerensa> ok thanks
[00:56]  * bkerensa wants to hack for fun
[00:56] <jono> bkerensa, it would be cooler if you could write some accoms for the system
[00:56] <jono> they are in lp:ubuntu-community-accomplishments
[00:57] <jono> we are really in need of those :-)
[00:57] <bkerensa> jono: :P my python is not nearly ninja enough yet :)
[00:57] <jono> bkerensa, it is easier for you to write an accomplishment than hack on the system itself
[00:57] <jono> believe me :-)
[00:57] <jono> writing an accomplishment just means knowing a little launchpadlib
[00:57] <bkerensa> >.<
[00:57] <jono> and there are lots of example accomplishments in that branch
[00:57] <bkerensa> ok
[00:57] <jono> :-)
[00:57] <jono> I think you might find it more worthwhile
[00:57] <bkerensa> well then maybe I will gank some and see what I can do
[00:57] <bkerensa> ;p
[00:57] <jono> brb
[00:58] <jono> thanks!
[00:58] <bkerensa> bbl
[01:13] <bkerensa> jono: also looks like the Help section could use some improvement :P
[01:13] <bkerensa> sample mallard files
[01:38] <jono> bkerensa, yeah we definitely need help with the help :-)
[02:02] <akgraner> If anyone is around and wants to hang out with me on Air let me know I'll send you and invite
[02:03] <akgraner> I've made the hangout public so you should in theory be able to just join let me know if you can't
[02:38] <akgraner> does anyone else have to re-set their sound settings *every* time they got to use hangouts
[02:38] <bkerensa> jono: :D You didnt blog about your book starting to ship :P
[02:58] <ScottL> jcastro, i have slides and i'd really like to share them with you ;)
[02:59] <jono> bkerensa, it hasnt shipped yet :-)
[04:37] <bkerensa> jono: yeah not to normal people but O'Reilly is already offering review copies :P
[04:38] <jono> bkerensa, oh cool :-)
[04:38] <bkerensa> Yeah I look forward to reading it
[04:38] <jono> thanks bkerensa!
[04:41] <bkerensa> jono: I hear there was a riot in Oakland today?
[04:41] <bkerensa> due to May Day
[04:46] <jono> bkerensa, I never heard anything about that
[04:47] <jono> oh reading now
[04:47] <jono> lol
[04:47] <bkerensa> jono: apparently happened a few blocks from where UDS will be and they were using concussion grenades
[04:47] <jono> I doubt it is that close
[04:48] <jono> city center is not usually an area of trouble
[04:48] <jono> there are may day disturbances all over the world
[04:48] <jono> it will be fine by the time folks arriv
[04:48] <jono> e
[04:48] <bkerensa> yeah I figured the person who told me was confused
[04:48] <bkerensa> :D
[04:48] <bkerensa> yeah just may day stuff
[05:10] <mhall119> bkerensa: jono: not a riot, but a march, right outside the hotel
[05:10] <bkerensa> LOL
[05:11] <bkerensa> mhall119: maybe the flash bangs occurred elsewhere
[05:11] <bkerensa> :D
[05:11] <mhall119> maybe
[05:11] <jono> mhall119, lol
[05:11] <bkerensa> Huffpo has photos :)
[05:11] <bkerensa> :D
[05:11] <jono> hows are things there mhall119?
[05:11] <jono> wish I could have made it down
[05:12] <jono> been working to wrap some things up before my life is sucked up with meetings
[05:14] <mhall119> jono: good, just went out for some dinner, going ot crash early tonight
[05:14] <jono> mhall119, cool
[05:14] <jono> I should be down at around 8.30/8.40
[05:15] <mhall119> hacking on summit some more :)
[05:18] <jono> mhall119, cool :-)
[05:18] <jono> mhall119, did you catch up with Nick?
[05:20] <mhall119> jono: not, yet, has he arrived at the hotel?
[05:24] <jono> mhall119, no idea, I assume so
[05:24] <jono> he may have arrived late and hit the hay
[05:24] <jono> brb, gonna grab dinner
[05:25] <mhall119> maybe, that's what I'm off to do
[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[07:10] <dpm> good morning everyone!
[07:31] <dholbach> hi dpm
[07:34] <dpm> hey dholbach, did you have a nice break?
[07:34] <dholbach> yes - how about yourself?
[07:34] <dholbach> we took the train to Szczecin yesterday
[07:38] <dpm> nice
[07:39] <dpm> yeah, had a great long weekend :)
[08:49] <dholbach> can anyone please help with https://code.launchpad.net/harvest/+activereviews? :)
[09:19] <jo-erlend> I have a bootable usb on my keyring. It uses persistence. If I store things on it, then those won't be copied if I install from it, right?
[10:06] <cjohnston> mornin
[10:07] <dpm> jo-erlend, I don't think they will, no. But to be sure, I'd ask on #ubuntu-installer
[10:07] <s-fox> Hello cjohnston
[10:07] <dpm> hey cjohnston
[10:08] <dpm> Wow, slowly catching up after the short break, and just read another nice article: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57424335-94/androids-new-ally-against-the-iphone-ubuntu/
[10:13] <jo-erlend> dpm, aha! Thanks. I didn't know about that channel :)
[10:13] <dpm> jo-erlend, yeah, I usually go there when I've got questions about ubiquity or other parts of the installation
[10:22] <alourie> hello
[13:44] <s-fox> o/
[13:57] <forestpiskie> hello
[13:57] <s-fox> Hi
[14:30] <dholbach> mhall119, jcastro, dpm-afk, balloons: hey - do you know if we have a team meeting later on?
[14:31] <dpm> argh, not afk anymore
[14:31] <dpm> I don't know, I was actually wondering the same
[14:31] <dpm> I guess it's up to the guys in Oakland
[14:33] <dholbach> depending on the answer of Oakland I'd make another pot of tea and dive deeper into what I should've done much earlier already: port scripts which deal with too much data into a django app
[14:35] <dpm> both seem like excellent plans to me :)
[14:36] <dholbach> yes, especially while sitting on the balcony and enjoying 25°C
[14:37] <forestpiskie> that sounds good
[14:45]  * dholbach takes the continued silence from Oakland as a signal to indulge in the harsh reality of http://2.asset.soup.io/asset/3039/9010_3a46.gif
[14:46] <s-fox>  Poor kitty
[14:48] <dholbach> dpm just showed me http://www.dodgycoder.net/2011/11/yoda-conditions-pokemon-exception.html - worth a read as well :)
[14:48] <dpm> absolutely :)
[14:49] <mhall119> dholbach: I wasnt planning on a meeting today
[14:50] <dholbach> mhall119, I'll go on then :)
[14:52] <bkerensa> dholbach: is the weather nice?
[14:52] <dholbach> bkerensa, yes, sun is shining, 25°C
[14:52] <bkerensa> oh
[14:52] <bkerensa> 77°F and its not even 8am?
[14:52] <bkerensa> oh no :(
[14:53] <dholbach> eh?
[14:53] <dholbach> I'm in Berlin :)
[14:54] <bkerensa> dholbach: oh :) I thought you were in Oakland already
[14:54] <dholbach> no, I'll arrive Sunday afternoon
[14:56] <forestpiskie> I hope your weather is heading for southern england dholbach :)
[14:57] <dholbach> forestpiskie, I'm not sure your idea reflects the dynamics of European weather :)
[14:57] <bkerensa> heh
[14:57] <dholbach> in any case it's supposed to rain tomorrow again :)
[14:58] <forestpiskie> dholbach: perhaps mine is heading for you then :)
[14:58] <forestpiskie> and you can always hope ...
[14:58] <dholbach> yeah, I won't let it ruin my mood :)
[14:59] <forestpiskie> lol
[15:32] <duanedes1gn> have not popped in to say hi to my #u-c-t in awhile...hello!
[15:34] <duanedes1gn> i wonder how cjohnston has been ggeting along with his Ubuntu  One install?
[15:45] <dpm> hi duanedes1gn, nice to see you here
[15:45] <dpm> how are things going in the u1 world?
[15:46] <cjohnston> duanedes1gn: went back to drop box
[15:46] <duanedes1gn> ahh my nick is meesed up
[15:47] <duanedesign> cjohnston: sorry to hear that
[15:47] <duanedesign> cjohnston: but you have to use what orks for you
[15:47] <duanedesign> works*
[15:47] <duanedesign> hi dpm
[15:48] <cjohnston> :)
[15:48] <cjohnston> just couldn't deal with whatever was causing stuff to be deleted
[15:49] <duanedesign> yeah that is no good
[15:50] <duanedesign> cjohnston: i think gettiing rid of some of the 'frills' like bookmarksync and the notes Ui ill allow us to focus on sync performance
[15:50] <cjohnston> would be nice
[15:53] <AlanBell> hi forestpiskie
[15:53] <forestpiskie> LOL
[15:54] <forestpiskie> hi AlanBell :)
[15:54] <forestpiskie> thanks for your help
[16:00] <mhall119> balloons: ping
[16:01] <mhall119> jcastro: where are you?
[16:02] <s-fox> Goodbye.
[16:32] <dholbach> alright my friends - time to call it a day
[16:32] <dholbach> see you tomorrow!
[17:25] <balloons> mhall119, I miss you!
[18:07] <bkerensa> jcastro: deadline is tomorrow >.<
[18:08] <jcastro> no
[18:08] <bkerensa> oh
[18:08] <jcastro> it's next wednesday
[18:08] <jcastro> it was a typo
[18:08] <bkerensa> OK
[18:08] <jcastro> fixed!
[18:08] <bkerensa> thank goodness.... I will going to have to spend all day writing charms
[18:08] <bkerensa> :D
[18:08] <scott-work> jcastro: sorry to keep poking you, but do you want the slides for the uds derivatives presentation?
[18:08] <bkerensa> ok Locker charm is done and at epic level of frostiness
[18:33] <s-fox> Hi =)
[20:51] <jo-erlend> jono, haha, I just described your band as "harder than Metallica, but softer than Morbid Angel". I didn't intend to! :)
[20:51] <jono> jo-erlend, lol!
[20:51] <jo-erlend> jono, I really love your music.
[20:51] <jono> thanks jo-erlend!
[20:51]  * bkerensa has never heard Jono's music
[20:51] <jo-erlend> http://www.severedfifth.com/releases/
[20:52] <jo-erlend> jono, "The Prey" is so perfect!
[20:52] <jono> jo-erlend, glad you like it! :-)
[20:53] <jo-erlend> jono, truth be told, your band is one of two I've recommended during the last five years; Nellie McKay is the other one. :)
[20:53] <jono> thanks so much jo-erlend :-)
[20:53] <jo-erlend> jono, I'm the one who's happy about it, you know. :)
[20:54] <jono> :-)
[20:54] <jo-erlend> now I'm just trying to find appropriate ways to reciprocate.
[20:56] <jo-erlend> it has become my obvious example why things like PirateBay should seize to exist.
[20:59] <jo-erlend> jono, thought I'd share it on a metal-club tomorrowm if you don't mind. I'll capture a video. We like this stuff in Norway, you know. :)
[21:01] <jono> jo-erlend, sweet!
[21:01] <jo-erlend> jono, fans aren't leeches? :)
[21:01] <jono> indeed
[21:01] <jo-erlend> I really do love this album though. It's not about the politics.
[21:02] <jono> :-)
[21:03] <JanC> hm, something else pretty cool to recommend to Ubuntu & other open source users: John Peel's site where he's publishing his record collection uses WebM for the commentary videos  ☺
[21:04] <JanC> http://thespace.org/
[21:04] <jo-erlend> jono, ah, Forgotten Heroes just came on. I love that one.
[21:05] <JanC> jono: no move-this-file-to-my-U1-button yet?  ;)
[21:06] <JanC> like they did for the SF festival in London
[21:07] <jono> JanC, not yet :-)
[21:07] <jono> jo-erlend, yeah, I love playing that live
[21:07] <jo-erlend> I'm really a jazz-kinda-guy.
[21:08] <jo-erlend> I like to think I'm a guitarist, but everytone else seems to think I'm better at the vocals. I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted. :)
[21:09] <jo-erlend> jono, who's the voice talking in this song?
[21:10]  * jo-erlend is extremely interested in voices :)
[21:10] <jono> jo-erlend, Winston Churchill
[21:11] <JanC> jo-erlend: what style of jazz?
[21:12] <jo-erlend> jono, you're serious? :)
[21:12] <jono> jo-erlend, yup
[21:12] <JanC> jono: you're also lacking vorbis & flac tracks  ;)
[21:13] <jo-erlend> JanC, Robert Normann is the main guy. Django Reinhardt is second. There are so many good ones, I can't really define them.
[21:13] <JanC> jo-erlend: ah, Django was born in Belgium, so that's nice  ;)
[21:13] <JanC> and I have a couple of albums with music from him
[21:14] <jo-erlend> jono, slightly inspired by Diablo this guitar background? :) Extremely cool!
[21:14] <jono> :-)
[21:14] <jono> brb
[21:15] <jo-erlend> JanC, you know... Robert Normann was something entirely different. Nobody understands, except for the extremely interested.
[21:15] <jo-erlend> I'd say "out of this world" if I believed in it.
[21:17] <JanC> jono: if you love Django, I'm sure you'll like this cover of the Super Mario Bros. theme by one of the original authors of the Django web framework: http://www.holovaty.com/writing/mario-gypsy-jazz/   ;)
[21:17] <JanC> jo-erlend: *
[21:17] <JanC> bah
[21:18] <JanC> Robert Normann I don't know, would have to check it out
[21:19] <JanC> jo-erlend: http://www.discogs.com/artist/Robert+Normann ?
[21:21] <jo-erlend> JanC, same guy, but I would advertise listening to him on U1MS :)
[21:22] <JanC> you mean, they have that, but not most well known bands?  ;)
[21:22] <jo-erlend> if you like Django, you'll like Robert Normann from wartimes. But if you really love guitar, you'll listen to the newer recordings.
[21:23] <jo-erlend> JanC, I wish I were allowed to share.
[21:24] <jo-erlend> In the meantime, I can tell you; if you like guitar; Robert Normann is the one. And he's in the U1MS.
[21:24] <JanC> jo-erlend: it seems like they actually have that in the U1MS indeed
[21:24] <jo-erlend> JanC, he's Norwegian. I would create havok if he wasn't. :)
[21:25] <JanC> well, lots of good music from all over the world isn't there
[21:25] <jo-erlend> true. But Robert Normann is something entirely different.
[21:25] <jo-erlend> he makes Django look pale.
[21:26] <JanC> Django is mostly remarkable as he played all that while missing 2 or 3 fingers IIRC  ;)
[21:26] <jo-erlend> of course, you really have to love guitar in order to get this. ;)
[21:27] <jo-erlend> It's not the disabilities that makes me love Django. It's the music.
[21:28] <jo-erlend> disabilities enable you to be different.
[21:28] <JanC> of course, it just makes it even more remarkable (although he said he played like that because of that)
[21:28] <jo-erlend> not to me. Or I  try not to think that way, anyway.
[21:28] <JanC> jo-erlend: sort of like Jimi Hendrix re-wired a normal guitar for his left-handedness
[21:29] <jo-erlend> JanC, right. But you have to see the chonology in it. They did it because they had to express something.
[21:29] <JanC> true
[21:30] <jo-erlend> I mean; eternity doesn't give a damn about difficulties.
[21:31] <JanC> actually, and AFAIK coincidentally, Django was born very near to one of Belgium's most important summer music festivals; both locations are in Dour
[21:31] <jo-erlend> you have heard Andy McKee, yes?
[21:31] <JanC> maybe
[21:32] <jo-erlend> ok, so that made me stop Liberate...
[21:32] <JanC> actually, there is a lot of jazz I've heard but don't know, from listening to the form jazz programme on national radio
[21:32] <JanC> former
[21:32] <jo-erlend> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddn4MGaS3N4
[21:33] <JanC> unfortunately they stopped that programme  :-(
[21:34] <jo-erlend> Andy McKee does extreme things... Fantastic.
[21:34] <jo-erlend> so does Ana Vidovic, of course, if you're also into classical music.
[21:35] <JanC> I don't really believe in music categories, except to give a bit of direction about what to expect, so I'm into all styles of music ☺
[21:35] <JanC> that Andy McKee is pretty cool indeed
[21:36] <jo-erlend> there's also another Norwegian guy... I think he's called Ola Staveteig. He plays two guitars at once. :)
[21:36] <jo-erlend> Andy McKee is awesome.
[21:37] <JanC> and rhythmbox is not awesome (I opened it to look at the store, now I have a hole bunch of bug reports popping up  :P )
[21:38] <JanC> apparently the subprocess that reads metadata in your music collection loves to crash when it doesn't understand a particular file...
[21:39] <jo-erlend> wish we could focus exclusively on quality in one LTS.
[21:39] <JanC> well, this is something upstream should have solved long ago
[21:40] <jo-erlend> fuck upstream.
[21:40] <JanC> it's one reason why I use quodlibet and not one of the "default" music applications  ;)
[21:40] <jo-erlend> you know... I'm trying to create something in Norway. If I have to consider upstreams and reality, then we're doomed.
[21:42] <JanC> (another reason being that quodlibet & the mutagen metadata parser are written in pure python and still faster than most of those compiled apps)
[21:42] <jo-erlend> Ubuntu is so damn chicken. That's what annoys me.
[21:43] <JanC> "unfortunately", quodlibet is firmly targetted at power users
[21:43] <jo-erlend> "power user" is just a fancy way of saying "the system sucks"
[21:44] <jo-erlend> Ubuntu 12.04LTS is the system that sucks the least, but I still have to adapt to it.
[21:44] <JanC> not really, it means "you can search your library using regular expressions" and "you can use arbitrary tags of your own choice"
[21:45] <JanC> not exactly something most people need for their collection  ;)
[21:46] <jo-erlend> some actions have now become sub-second for me on my computer. That's extremely good compared to all the other sucky systems out there. But in reality, what I expect is for the system to be prepared when I ask for something. Ubuntu is the only system that's even trying to. But all of them still sucks.
[21:48] <jo-erlend> for instance; I always wear my headset, so why don't we just build EEG into it and get support to the simplest tasks? '
[21:48] <JanC> good example from the quodlibet manual: album = !/Christmas/
[21:48] <JanC> ;)
[21:49] <jo-erlend> computers are effective, as long as you play by their rules. That's what makes all of them such a piece of crap.
[21:49] <JanC> (actually, that one is from the comments)
[21:50] <jo-erlend> It is also what makes Ubuntu 12.04LTS the best there is. But I still think it's too chicken.
[21:50] <JanC> well, the rules are what we give them, after all  ;)
[21:50] <jo-erlend> no.
[21:50] <jo-erlend> it's not. Babies learn grammars way before anyone tells them how it works.
[21:50] <JanC> where "we" = the humans that created it
[21:51] <JanC> created & programmed
[21:51] <jo-erlend> right. But there's no such thing as "humans".
[21:51] <greg-g> wait, i dont' exist?
[21:52]  * greg-g just willy-nilly interjects, then goes back to work
[21:52] <jo-erlend> greg-g, right. When I close my eyes and go to sleep, I might wake up not even remembering your nick.
[21:52] <greg-g> jo-erlend: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Don't disappear me!
[21:52] <jo-erlend> you know what's worse? The brain is deliberately trying to forget things.
[21:53] <JanC> that sounds liek a sensible thing to do  ;)
[21:53] <jo-erlend> it is. And that's why the computer should adapt to us and not vice versa.
[21:53] <JanC> from a restricted space management PoV
[21:54] <jo-erlend> the computer never decides to forget anything.
[21:54] <JanC> you could easily make it do that
[21:55] <JanC> e.g. ext4 in its early days was pretty good at that  :P
[21:55] <jo-erlend> I thoroughly hate the concept of paths and names in the context of computing.
[21:56] <JanC> you know, *we* engineer file systems and databases to never forget anything
[21:56] <jo-erlend> exactly. That's why it should remember and anticipate things for us.
[21:56] <JanC> it's easy enough to make them forget instead ;)
[21:56] <jo-erlend> no. Remembering is easy. It is forgetting the right things... That's difficult.
[21:57] <JanC> that's why our brain often forgets what we want to remember and vice versa, I suppose...
[21:58] <JanC> bad algorithms
[21:58] <jo-erlend> I've decided that 1) the brain has a mind of its own and 2) it is the brain that owns me, not vice versa. :)
[22:14] <JanC> funny thing, supposedly I have an "out of JanC's rarity cabinet" item in a Dutch web "radio station" now  :P
[22:44] <JanC> jono: the DJ says you can get one of your songs into the show if you listen to the stream and request it...  ;)
[22:45] <JanC> that will give you at least 10 listeners on Wednesday evening ;-)
[22:45] <JanC> (mostly from the ubuntu-nl locoteam AFAICT)
[22:46] <JanC> (I wish our laws about hobbyist broadcasting were as relaxed as theirs)
[22:47] <jono> JanC, I wish I could but I am at work
[22:47] <JanC> jono:  ☺
[22:48] <JanC> internet broadcast fees start at 2000 € / year in Belgium  :-/
[22:50] <jono> wow
[22:50] <jono> expensive
[22:51] <JanC> depends on how much listeners you have
[22:51] <JanC> it's peanuts for university-funded radio stations
[22:53] <JanC> but makes it impossible to set up a hobby radio station for some friends to try out how it all works
[22:53] <JanC> (well, at least legally ;) )
[23:24] <s-fox> Morning
[23:25] <MrChrisDruif> Night
[23:25] <balloons> afternoon
[23:25] <popey> Bananas!
[23:26] <s-fox> How is everyone?
[23:26] <popey> GREAT!
[23:26] <balloons> popey, you've ruined our life of the sun circle.. we were all connected through the phases of the sun, and .....
[23:26] <balloons> good s-fox how about you?
[23:26] <balloons> fresh tea is flowing now
[23:27] <popey> pfffffft
[23:27] <popey> tea!?
[23:27] <popey> i haven't had tea for $DAYS
[23:28] <MrChrisDruif> Sleepy time actually, but that major downpour revitalised me actually ^_^
[23:29] <s-fox> balloons,  A little tired to be honest. I've been working on the accomplishment system. Requested my branch be merged with the trunk
[23:30] <balloons> s-fox, I didn't realize you were messing with accomplishments
[23:31] <balloons> I was just about to dive back into writing my first
[23:31] <balloons> well, I suppose it's my second.. I failed to finish my first.. technical issue :-)
[23:31] <s-fox> balloons,  I am guilty of being involved with it yes
[23:31] <balloons> s-fox, don't you go absorbing jono's mistakes now..
[23:31] <s-fox> balloons,  I wrote my first today, a few teething issues, but they were resolved.
[23:32] <balloons> I'm still blaming him
[23:33] <s-fox> balloons,   you know Joeb454 is the community blame person. :D
[23:33] <s-fox> Anything and everything is Joeb454's fault
[23:35] <MrChrisDruif> Sleep well everyone
[23:35] <balloons> you too!
[23:35] <balloons> s-fox, how could I forge
[23:35] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks
[23:35] <balloons> *forget
[23:35] <s-fox> What would you like to forge? balloons  :)
[23:36] <s-fox> What accomplishment do you want to add balloons ?
[23:37] <balloons> I was hoping to get some QA-themed accomplishments
[23:39] <s-fox> :-)
[23:39] <balloons> I had started work on one for iso testing
[23:39] <balloons> and now I'm looking more towards sticking within the realm of the lp api for my first to keep it simple
[23:40] <s-fox> The API thing is a pain, yes. I would like to tap into the vbulletin db for forums related accomplishments
[23:40] <s-fox> I just don't think it is possible :/
[23:47] <balloons> s-fox, your not the only one wanting into the forum
[23:47] <balloons> i suspect at somepoint we'll find there's a good solution
[23:51] <s-fox> balloons,  All we would need to do is write a script is that could query the database. Obviously the connection script should not be made public
[23:53] <s-fox> We already know what the schema is, so shouldn't be that hard to do , if everyone pulls together
[23:56] <balloons> well.. if you made a web service for the forum this would be simple
[23:57] <s-fox> I was searching for an API in python. No joy


[09:02] <Saviq> OK so that's a bit dum-dum, Snapcraft won't let you built with a `build-provider: ` that doesn't exist. But it will, with a channel that does. Except SnapD will still fail to install:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/c7174987fe0112339e9a30980f2951bf6bee24de>)
[09:07] <alan_g[m]> Yeah, I've complained about it in the past.
[09:08] <alan_g[m]> You have to install manually
[09:34] <Saviq> But I think you at least could build with a snap not-in-stable, now you can't
[09:35] <Saviq> And then if you do use a channel, you can't install the built snap…
[09:35] <Saviq> So the only real option is to just omit the default provider bit
[09:36] <Saviq> (or well, release to stable)
[09:36] <alan_g[m]> Well, I've installed mesa-core22/edge and then I can install the consumer snaps built with .../edge
[09:37] <Saviq> OK yeah, you can install first, but that doesn't help that much
[09:37] <Saviq> Snapcraft should probably just let things through despite default-provider not being there at built time
[09:37] <alan_g[m]> +1
[09:44] <Saviq> Filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapcraft/+bug/2012057
[09:44] <Saviq> And will modify everything to default-provider: mesa-core22
[09:48] <Saviq> Ugh. But that will make them not build 🤦♂
[09:49] <Saviq> Will leave it at /edge for now, then
[12:26] <alan_g[m]> Would it break anything to promote mesa-core22 to stable? (It doesn't need to be public)
[12:27] <Saviq> No, but it also wouldn't help much until we publish them under a single publisher (no auto-connection)
[12:27] <Saviq> But yeah at least it would install
[12:36] <Saviq> OK done, it's on stable now
[13:58] <alan_g[m]> Testing OSK I discovered that the keyboard appears at the top of the display. Doesn't seem to be the core22 changes though. Can you reproduce?
[13:58] <Saviq> Worked fine when I tried in Miriway, will try a real session
[14:01] <alan_g[m]> Seems to be a difference between Frame/edge and Frame/stable
[14:03] <alan_g[m]> Frame/beta also shows it wrong
[14:04] <alan_g[m]> And candidate!
[14:05] <alan_g[m]> I'm using it with frame-it (with osk=enable)
[14:11] <Saviq> Yeah, that I can reproduce
[14:27] <Saviq> Will leave it with you, digging into our tests crashing on Pi4 with core22
[15:14] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** AlanGriffiths opened [pull request #132](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/pull/132): Fix OSK... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/5ea577b94cc2dd68afcedd04a16ac3727e31be6d>)
[16:07] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** Saviq opened [issue #2870](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2870): `mir_performance_tests` crashing on armhf on 22.04... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/283a9e076ebb3d35bd9716ba5ce8eae53e1b27f9>)
[16:17] <alan_g[m]> So the question is, do we fix Frame now, or just roll it into the Mir 2.13 update
[16:26] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** bors[bot] edited [pull request #132](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/pull/132): [Merged by Bors] - Fix OSK
[16:26] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** bors[bot] closed [pull request #132](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/pull/132): [Merged by Bors] - Fix OSK
[16:30] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/ubuntu-frame]** Saviq assigned  to [pull request #132](https://github.com/MirServer/ubuntu-frame/pull/132): [Merged by Bors] - Fix OSK
[16:37] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/wlcs]** wmww requested a review from RAOF for [pull request #277](https://github.com/MirServer/wlcs/pull/277): Test XDG shell (stable) version 5
[17:43] <Saviq> sophie https://github.com/MirServer/mir-ci/actions/runs/4264568386/jobs/7814456136?pr=5#step:8:2342 is now running a locally-built egmde in a loop, you should be able to SSH with:
[17:43] <Saviq> ```plain
[17:43] <Saviq> ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:43] <Saviq> ```
[17:44] <Saviq> But of course it's now been running for a few minutes and no crash…
[17:48] <Saviq> We may just put egmde to rest over this.
[17:53] <sophie-w> Saviq: uhh, do I need keys for that?
[17:53] <Saviq> I imported your LP ones?
[17:53] <sophie-w> hmm, didn't work
[17:54] <Saviq> Ah, meh, they'd need to be imported on the server side of this… too late
[17:55] <Saviq> Anyway, nothing to see there as it didn't segfault…
[17:57] <sophie-w> ok makes sense, confirmed that my launchpad pubkey is up to date and correct
[18:01] <Saviq> There's one important difference here - egmde is classic, so it's running with the host's (22.04) bits around.
[18:08] <Saviq> But pulling the host back to 20.04 doesn't help
[18:15] <Saviq> Trying one last thing - building on 20.04 rather than 22.04
[18:51] <Saviq> OK that worked
[18:51] <Saviq> Will get an env you can SSH into
[19:39] <Saviq> sophie can you `ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:40] <Saviq> You can ;)
[19:41] <sophie-w> I can
[19:43] <Saviq> OK I'll get it to the point where the issue can be reproduced and let you know
[20:15] <Saviq> sophie OK it's all yours, looping over tests now - of course it's now happily chugging along.
[20:19] <sophie-w> Thanks! have a good evening
[20:19] <sophie-w> and weekend


[02:41] <xubuntu36w> HI, I messed up with the visudo command and now my system doesn't recognize my user account as being a sudoer, when I try to su to root it isn't accepting the password I thought I used.  I tried to boot to recovery mode but when I choose root from the recovery menu it prompts me to enter the root password to proceed or I have to use CTRL-D to boot normally.
[02:41] <xubuntu36w> I tried editing the grub boot using the old method of invoking the menu, editing the linuz line by adding single to the end but that doesn't work either.
[02:42] <xubuntu36w> Is there anything I can do short of booting to a USB key?
[02:44] <xubuntu36w> I'm using xubuntu 15.10
[08:21] <anal0g> I'm having an odd issue where my computer "lags" for a few seconds every now and then,  causing everything I type to be delayed. I can still move my mouse but clicking windows also gets delayed. Any clue about how to debug this? I'm trying to use something like htop to see if any processes are spiking and using all my CPU, but htop itself also stops updating
[08:21] <anal0g> during that lag.
[09:17] <nils17> hi. xfce4-terminal --working-directory=/tmp leads me not to /tmp but to home-folder.. what could be wwrong?
[11:27] <Guest21326> i need help
[11:28] <cfhowlett> !help | Guest21326
[13:49] <xubuntu21w> Hi friends! Can anyone tell me how to upgrade from xubuntu 15.04 to 15.10 via terminal. I'v tried several times but it seems I have problems with some servers. Thanks!
[13:49] <cfhowlett> !eolupgrade | xubuntu21w
[15:37] <xubuntu786> how do I use create keyboard shortcuts to control volume?
[15:41] <xubuntu786> I'm in the keyboard app, and I clicked on add
[15:50] <gabkdlly> xubuntu786: The keyboard app allows you to map keys to arbitrary commands, so is you question how to change volume on the commandline ?
[15:52] <RFleming> Greetings!
[15:53] <RFleming> I'm having issues with the lightdm greeter on my Lenovo laptop
[15:53] <RFleming> On my virtual machine, lightdm takes the wallpaper of the user highlighted for login, but on my laptop (using nouveau) it briefly shows that wallpaper, then flashes to the default wallpaper
[15:55] <RFleming> If I change the greeters wallpaper, then it flashes the users wallpaper first, then a white backgrounda appears.
[15:56] <RFleming> if I switch it to use the nVidia driver, it works as expected.
[15:57] <RFleming> I don't know if this is a nouveau issue, or a greeter issue
[16:08] <gabkdlly> xubuntu786: pactl is a command that might help you, check out its man page.
[17:32] <tekgeek> I have a question about making a program start up with the computer. on another one of my computers in KDE I can open up  user/.kde/autostart and just drop my krfb.desktop icon in that folder and it starts with KDE.  I have been trying to do the same with an xfce distro based on xubuntu. I attempted to drop the icon into user/.config/autostart but it doesn't start up with xfce
[17:33] <tekgeek> I am just trying to get krfb (vnc) to start up with the OS
[17:34] <genius3000> tekgeek: You can add it under the Session and Startup-> Application Autostart
[17:34] <drc> tekgeek: Try Settings>Sessions and Startup.
[17:35] <drc> Applications Autostart
[17:35] <tekgeek> yea I have seen that as well krfb is in the list and checked but still won't start up with the OS.   or it will not allow me to connect via vnc I have to go to the computer and start it
[17:36] <tekgeek> the command listed under that is   http://i.imgur.com/YOg5QQH.jpg
[17:36] <tekgeek> oops wrong thing
[17:37] <genius3000> It may not start until you login, using that.
[17:37] <tekgeek> krfb -caption %c %i
[17:37] <genius3000> You could add it to crontab for root, '@reboot'
[17:38] <genius3000> Sorry, for any user if that works.
[17:38] <tekgeek> I have searched for a couple weeks now to get it running so I can just log in from anywhere in the house... I have 15 computers running and I like to have access from anywhere
[17:39] <tekgeek> basically it looks like it should just work.
[17:40] <genius3000> Could also add it as a service, startup script with your init system.
[17:43] <tekgeek>  /etc/xdg/autostart is another place that has startup programs.
[18:24] <sam_> hello
[21:00] <hexhaxtron> I just installed Xubuntu but it doesn't boot. GRUB is working but when pressing Enter I get: error: symbol grub_efi_secure_boot not found
[21:00] <hexhaxtron> Any ideas?
[21:00] <genii> !efi
[21:05] <hexhaxtron> genii, where is boot-repair?
[21:06] <flocculant> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
[22:53] <xubuntu38w> Hello everyone. I've got a question about dual booting vs running a virtual machine
[22:53] <xubuntu38w> I've been windows free for 6ish months now and everything is going great
[22:54] <xubuntu38w> However, there is certain windows only software that I need to run for school
[22:54] <mrkramps> xubuntu38w, depends on your system's specs
[22:54] <xubuntu38w> If i want to use windows at the most minimal level (only to run a few programs), should I use a virtual machine rather than dual booting
[22:55] <xubuntu38w> dell latitude laptop (e7440), intel core i5, 500gb hdd, 8gb ram
[22:55] <xubuntu38w> currently running xubuntu 15.10
[22:55] <mrkramps> give it a try
[22:55] <mrkramps> i would always recommend VM over dual booting
[22:56] <mrkramps> especially if it is for a single programm only
[22:56] <mrkramps> xubuntu38w, have you already checked if it works with wine?
[22:56] <xubuntu38w> one of the programs I'm looking to use is EAC (exact audio copy), which is used for ripping CDs. Will I run into mounting issues if this is used in a VM?
[22:56] <xubuntu38w> It does work with wine, but I do not wish to use wine
[22:57] <xubuntu38w> I use an external USB cd drive
[22:58] <mrkramps> shoudl work
[22:58] <mrkramps> but do not tell me you're installing windows for a cd ripper
[22:59] <xubuntu38w> EAC is the best program for providing error free rips
[23:00] <xubuntu38w> there is no linux  equivalent that is as good
[23:00] <xubuntu38w> as EAC
[23:00] <knome> i use asunder and have had no problems
[23:01] <xubuntu38w> I've looked into rubyripper, but it's not as advanced and I'm pretty sure development has ended for it
[23:02] <mrkramps> true, 2014-03-10
[23:02] <xubuntu38w> is asunder still being supported/developed?
[23:03] <xubuntu38w> I'll have to see how it compares in terms of capability
[23:03] <knome> asunder is very basic, but it has no problems with ripping
[23:03] <knome> i do the final tagging of my audio files with my media manager anyway
[23:04] <xubuntu38w> Do you use it for ripping to lossless?
[23:04] <knome> no, but you can do that too
[23:07] <xubuntu38w> Anyone have an idea as to how much space windows 7 will take up?
[23:07] <xubuntu38w> with a dual boot configuration
[23:08] <xubuntu38w> i may even go with xp
[23:08] <Unit193> Thought Windows took 10-15GB, base system?
[23:08] <knome> xubuntu38w, you should ask ##windows
[23:08] <xubuntu38w> I will do that, thanks
[23:25] <xubuntu11w> Hi how can I check my computer for any hardware errors or failures?
[23:36] <mrkramps> xubuntu11w, check the log files
[23:36] <mrkramps> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxLogFiles
[23:37] <mrkramps> and have an eye on your disk health https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Smartmontools
[23:52] <xubuntu11w> mrkramps My computer is having a problem where the internet keeps disconnecting. I use a wireless adapter to connect to the internet. And my computer has freeze because of this issue. In syslog it says error 4 networkmanager
[23:55] <mrkramps> xubuntu11w, just a guess, but sound like driver issue then
[23:56] <mrkramps> xubuntu11w, what kind of wifi chipset is the adapter using


[15:15] <james1138> Morning all. I have a question about playing a old win95 game on Lubuntu - MechWarrior 2. I found my old copy and thought to ask before trying and maybe giving myself headache. Any suggestions?
[15:16] <teward> james1138: wine
[15:16] <teward> !wine
[15:16] <teward> though, it hasn't been tested at all
[15:17] <teward> james1138: i lied, but it looks like it doesn't work well at all - see https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=5207
[15:17] <teward> (I think that's what yo uwere looking for)
[15:19] <james1138> Thanks Teward. But it is not Mech 2 Merc... it is just standard non-titanium Mechwarrior 2
[15:19] <teward> james1138: ah, well, i couldn't find that in the appdb
[15:20] <teward> it's entirely possible that it works, but i'm looking in the wine email lists and getting a "it's not working" vibe from the emails there
[15:21] <james1138> Darn... I may have to try and track down the DOS version.   8-(
[15:21] <teward> you're free to try yourself though
[15:23] <james1138> What about "winetricks" or "playonwine"?
[15:25] <teward> winetricks is part of wine, won't help much; PlayOnLinux may help, but I'm not an expert there
[15:25] <teward> it may be old enough that PoL doesn't work with it
[16:35] <dude> anyone around to answer a quick question?
[16:48] <Mathisen> dude, better to just ask
[16:48] <james1138> Nobody here but us mice dude.
[17:07] <dude> lol i was going to ask about the pae issue with the latest lubuntu release
[17:08] <dude> basically i have an old xp era dell with a pentium m processor and no pae support. i was curious if forcing worked for wily werewolf
[17:40] <james1138> Have you thought about trying "fake-pae"?


[00:00] <jdong> hmm the box is a Mac Pro with FB-DIMMs and reproduces on 3 different machines
[00:00] <penguin42> ok ok, so it doesn't have to be a hardware bug!
[00:00] <jdong> aptitude doesn't say anything
[00:00] <jdong> but I still don't see the packages
[00:01] <jpds> jdong: You have a HTTP cache between you and your mirror?
[00:01] <jdong> actually....
[00:01] <jdong> clearing /var/lib/apt/lists fixed it
[00:01] <jdong> weird.
[00:01] <jdong> oh.
[00:01] <jdong> OH.
[00:01] <jdong> stupid if-modified-since handling?
[00:02] <jdong> the livecd was built using us.archive.u.c as a mirror, and then the final installed system chose mirrors.kernel.org
[00:02] <jdong> I guess technically an older file hasn't been-modified-since the newer file
[00:02] <jdong> *headdesk*
[00:15] <mrmonday> Is this the right pace to ask about issues when trying to package apps for ubuntu, or is there a channel better suited to that?
[00:17] <penguin42> mrmonday: There is also a #ubuntu-packaging (I think it's ing) and #ubuntu-motu where the stuff in the universe set of repos get done (I only hang out here occasionally)
[00:21] <mrmonday> Thanks, I'm in there now :)
[00:37] <bdrung> Riddelll: ping
[01:15] <TheMuso> ScottK: Thanks, that was a quick decision. :)
[01:21] <ScottK> TheMuso: I figure that's high on your list of packages not to leave broken.  Not much of a risk.
[01:21] <TheMuso> ScottK: Yeah this is true, thanks again.
[01:58] <TheMuso> c
[05:11] <ipatrol> hello
[05:31] <ipatrol> I was thinking about configuration GUIs
[05:35] <hv> What happened to the gnome-terminal? Alt+Backspace does not delete a word anymore. (Alt is not being sent)
[05:36] <ipatrol> open xev and see what happens when you press that keystroke
[05:38] <hv> it's not from xev. xterm works fine. it is as if the gnome-terminal equivalent of "XTerm*metaSendsEscape: true" is no longer the case
[05:39] <hv> do Alt+b, Alt+f, Alt+backspace, etc work for you in gnome-terminal?
[05:40] <ipatrol> I'm not on a desktop computer
[05:42] <hv> ipatrol: I see.
[05:42] <ipatrol> If you gave me ssh or vnc access I could try :D
[05:43] <hv> there was an upgrade (2.30.2 -> 2.31.90) on Aug 17.
[05:44] <ion> Does esc-backspace work?
[05:44] <hv> yes
[05:44]  * micahg thinks there's a bug open already for that
[05:46] <hv> umm, how can I search for bugs for package $PACKAGE in launchpad? PACKAGE name is what aptitude tells me.
[05:48] <hv> there is "search in one project", but apparently project-name is not exactly the same as package-name
[05:48] <StevenK> hv: First, you need the source package name, which you can find from aptitude (under Source: ), and then https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source package name>
[05:51] <hv> StevenK: "aptitude show" apparently does not have a section "Source". How can I get that automatically?
[05:51] <StevenK> hv: If one isn't present, it's the same as what you searched for
[05:53] <StevenK> hv: Actually, no, I'm wrong. aptitude show doesn't display it, but apt-cache show does
[05:57] <ipatrol> yeah, apt-cache
[06:04] <hv> StevenK: thanks.
[06:05] <hv> function view-package-info () { if PKGSOURCELINE="$(apt-cache show "$1" | grep '^Source:')"; then PKGSOURCE=${PKGSOURCELINE/Source: /} ; else PKGSOURCE="$1" ; fi ; xdg-open "https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/$PKGSOURCE"; }
[06:05] <hv> :D
[06:56] <geser> hv: see bug #619754 for the "Alt" key issue
[07:32] <mdke> morning. Can someone tell me whether, if a source package builds more than one binary package, and a change is made so that a particular binary package is no longer built, does any additional act need to be taken to remove that binary package from the archive?
[07:35] <geser> no, it will appear on in the NBS list and get removed by the archive admins if no reverse (build-)dependencies are left
[07:38] <mdke> geser: excellent, thanks for the information
[07:39] <mdke> is there an easy way to tell what dependencies exist?
[07:40] <geser> apt-cache rdepends for dependencies but for build-dependencies you need use grep-dctrl on the Source file
[07:41] <mdke> geser: thanks. I'm sure there aren't any build-dependencies in this case
[07:41] <geser> or you simply check http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ once you dropped the package
[07:41] <mdke> looks like no rdepends either :)
[07:42] <mdke> geser: thanks again
[07:45] <dholbach> good morning
[07:45] <mdke> morning dholbach
[07:45] <dholbach> hey mdke
[07:46] <bilalakhtar> good morning dholbach
[07:46] <dholbach> hey bilalakhtar
[07:48] <pitti> Good morning
[07:48] <pitti> erh, where did my control key go?
[07:48] <pitti> seems it's acting like another windows key
[07:50] <nigelb> heh
[07:50] <nigelb> pitti: Nice way to start the morning.
[07:51] <nigelb> Good morning :)
[07:51] <mok0> What GNU autotools files do you guys include in your brz repo? Do you have all files at the "make dist" level, or do you not include the autogenerated files?
[07:52] <mok0> Of course, you need "./configure" etc. for bzr-builddeb to work
[07:52] <mok0> But that could be restricted to the package branch
[07:53] <mok0> Do you consider the casual user, that might do a bzr branch lp:xxxx ; configure; make ?
[07:56] <pitti> mok0: for upstream projects, definitively don't include autotools stuff; it's just noicse
[07:57] <pitti> mok0: some packaging branches do that, when they import upstream tarballs instead of being a real branch from upstream trunk
[07:57] <mok0> pitti, so, in your opinion, I should have the GNU autotools only in the "ubuntu" branch? (The one that includes debian/ )
[07:58] <pitti> mok0: depends on the packaging style
[07:58] <pitti> but upstream branches with autoconfiscation (or more generally, with anything that gets autogenerated) are pretty annoying
[07:58] <geser> pitti: is it bug 619754 or a different issue?
[07:59] <pitti> geser: ah, I did have a libvte upgrade yesterday afternoon indeed; trying
[07:59] <mok0> pitti, unless you have configure and friends, bzr-builddeb doesn't work
[07:59] <pitti> mok0: so your packgaging branch derives straight from trunk?
[07:59] <mok0> pitti: yes
[07:59] <mok0> pitti, it includes trunk, and adds debian/
[08:00] <mok0> pitti, but I could also add m4/
[08:00] <pitti> mok0: you could call autotools in debian/rules; if you use cdbs, you can just set the flags, otherwise call autoreconf before ./configure
[08:00] <pitti> geser: hmm, no new vte in this morning's dist-upgrade
[08:00] <mok0> pitti: yeah, that is a possibility...
[08:01] <pitti> ah, vte failed to build on amd64
[08:02] <mok0> pitti: thanks for your input
[08:03] <pitti> robert_ancell: I'll give back vte on amd64 once glib has published (it just finished building on amd64
[08:04] <robert_ancell> pitti, thanks
[08:07] <mdke> I believe that the ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs packages both used to have a "XS-Vcs-Bzr" field, but they seem to have disappeared somehow. Are these still in use generally?
[08:14] <pitti> mdke: it's now called Vcs-Bzr:
[08:16] <pitti> ah, keyboard sanity! thanks geser
[08:18] <mdke> pitti: thanks. That seems not to be there either, I'll readd it. No idea how it got lost
[08:34] <kblin> hi folks
[08:35] <kblin> I take it's too late to get driver support for a wifi dongle into 10.10?
[10:57] <cjwatson> pitti: upstream autoconfiscation> disagree, just for the record.  (I'm not really trying to persuade you, but I want it to be on the record that not all upstreams act the same way.)
[10:57] <pitti> cjwatson: hm, I've never seen one anyway
[10:57] <cjwatson> anything I maintain for starters :)
[11:00] <pitti> cjwatson: that makes upstream commits pretty noisy, though?
[11:00] <cjwatson> Yes, exactly as noisy as I want them to be
[11:00] <cjwatson> I want to be able to see what changes the autotools are making, and having the generated files in revision control is an excellent way to do that
[11:00] <cjwatson> it's a good way to spot mistakes
[11:01] <pitti> cjwatson: hmkay :) seems I just haven't stumbled over one of those upstream VCSes then
[11:01] <cjwatson> man-db, ubiquity (OTTOMH)
[11:32] <soren> cjwatson: That only really works for single-person projects, doesn't it?
[11:33] <soren> cjwatson: Or do you just have a rule that only one person gets to change those things or do you mandate a very specifically versioned toolchain?
[11:33] <cjwatson> soren: you do have to be reasonably close in autotools versions but that's often the case anyway.
[11:34] <cjwatson> soren: this way, at least it's explicit what random set of stuff the principal maintainer was using.
[11:35] <soren> cjwatson: True. I'm with pitti, though. I don't recall stumbling upon vcs with autogenerated stuff in it that wasn't a mistake.
[11:35] <cjwatson> it's certainly popular to not include it, but I thought it worth mentioning that the practice is not universal
[11:35] <soren> cjwatson: I acknowledge you do things differently, though, and I how it can be valuable.
[11:35] <soren> right.
[11:35] <soren> Good to know.
[11:36] <chrismsnz> hey guys, do you know where i can find the people that run the xorg edgers ppa?
[11:36] <cjwatson> in fact, if you do it very consistently, it avoids the need for a tarball branch sitting in between the upstream vcs and the packaging branch
[11:36] <cjwatson> which can be convenient
[11:36] <nigelb> chrismsnz: #ubuntu-x perhaps?
[11:36] <chrismsnz> nigelb, ty
[11:43] <jibel> pitti, hello, sru bug 595116, apache 2.2.14-5ubuntu8.1 failed to build in lucid, who should I warn ?
[11:44] <pitti> jibel: that already happened; the package was pulled from -proposed, and we asked zul to reupload
[11:44] <jibel> pitti, okay thanks.
[12:22] <doko> seb128: when is the next set of gnome updates expected, and when do you expect the archive be stable again after these are uploaded?
[12:22] <doko> Riddell: when is the next set of kde updates expected, and when do you expect the archive be stable again after these are uploaded?
[12:23] <seb128> doko, what is not stable and what do you try to figure?
[12:23] <seb128> doko, is that for an archive rebuild? cd builds?
[12:23] <doko> trying to figure out a good time to take a snapshot for a rebuilt test
[12:25] <seb128> doko, next GNOME changes are august 30th
[12:25] <ogra> doko, the archive is in its best condition right before a milestone
[12:25] <seb128> doko, I don't expect GNOME to be unstable until then
[12:26] <doko> seb128: ok, thanks
[12:27] <bilalakhtar> okay, I need an FFe for a new upstream release, should I file 2 separate bugs (one for sponsorship, other for FFe) or merge 'em ?
[12:27] <geser> merge them
[12:28] <geser> it's easier to look at only one bug
[12:33] <Riddell> doko: probably next big KDE update September 9th
[12:39] <webczat> Hey.
[12:39] <webczat> What usb-creator requires? i want to install it on gentoo and then create ubuntu liveusb pendrive
[12:39] <webczat> version 0.2.22
[12:43] <webczat> i'm extremely annoyed about that freeze!
[12:46] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[12:47] <webczat> :/
[12:48] <seb128> ricotz, hey
[12:57] <webczat> wrrrrrrr
[12:57] <webczat> is that freeze something normal?
[13:19] <webczat> hmm, 0.2.20 also does not work
[13:19]  * webczat curses
[14:15] <webczat> does anyone have a clue why usb-creator freezes?
[14:49] <webczat> ?
[14:54] <Pici> webczat: This isn't a support channel.  Please use #ubuntu for that.
[15:16] <cnd_> seb128, I'm working on adding udebs to mtdev and utouch-grail
[15:16] <cnd_> I've pushed packaging commits to enable udebs to lp
[15:16] <cnd_> would you be able to review the changes?
[15:17] <seb128> cnd_, sorry but I'm over busy atm, I've at least 5 changes in my queue and 3 person who pinged me
[15:17] <seb128> cnd_, can you drop me an email with the references?
[15:17] <seb128> cnd_, I might review that later otherwise it will be tomorrow
[15:17] <cnd_> seb128, is there someone else you could recommend who could help?
[15:17] <seb128> or maybe somebody else there can do reviews
[15:17] <cnd_> I can also drop an email
[15:18] <cnd_> I just don't want to overburden you :)
[15:18] <seb128> well let's say that's the right channel
[15:18] <seb128> but I suggest opening bugs with the change and subscribing sponsors
[15:19] <cnd_> seb128, ok, I'll open bugs like you suggest
[15:20] <cnd_> should I subscribe just yourself, or some team, or?
[15:20] <dholbach> cnd: subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
[15:20] <cnd_> dholbach, ok, thanks!
[15:21] <cjwatson> cnd_: udebs> why?
[15:21] <cnd_> cjwatson, mtdev and utouch-grail handle gesture recognition, and they siphon events from xserver-xorg-input-evdev in Maverick
[15:22] <cnd_> (right now they siphon events off from a new *-gevdev package because we don't have udebs so we can't merge changes into the real *-evdev)
[15:23] <cnd_> we want to just have a patch against evdev for Maverick, but if we do that right now, the evdev udeb will also depend on mtdev and utouch-grail
[15:23] <cnd_> and the installer will burst into flames :)
[15:24] <cnd_> cjwatson, I'm sure you're busy too, but would you have a moment to check my udeb changes?
[15:24] <cnd_> np if you can't
[15:30] <cjwatson> cnd_: what installer do you have in mind that uses evdev?
[15:31] <cjwatson> cnd_: (noting that we don't actually use graphical d-i at the moment)
[15:31] <cjwatson> cnd_: I don't object to adding the udebs, just surprised that it's a priority
[15:31] <cjwatson> cnd_: happy to look at your changes
[15:38] <robbiew> cjwatson: noticed bug 620293, bug 620302, and bug 620338 all created in the last 24hours....could there be a possible bug in initramfs-tools (Lucid)...or is this a common error message for multiple failures
[15:39] <cjwatson> robbiew: I'll look, but it's a very common message
[15:40] <cjwatson> and it's a "something broke" kind of thing
[15:40] <robbiew> cjwatson: ack..then no worries
[15:40] <robbiew> I thought it might be
[15:45] <cjwatson> robbiew: two undebuggable problems with no useful information attached; one problem which is odd but isolated
[15:45] <cjwatson> all different
[15:46] <robbiew> cjwatson: cool...thnx
[15:46] <robbiew> and sorry to take 5min of your life that you will never get back :P
[15:47] <cnd_> cjwatson, sorry, didn't notice your messages
[15:48] <cnd_> cjwatson, I was under the assumption that the graphical installer was running through X
[15:48] <cnd_> if not, then this may all be a moot point :)
[15:49] <cnd_> or perhaps you're meaning that the ubiquity installer image isn't built from udebs?
[15:49] <cjwatson> cnd_: so, there are two graphical installers.  one (which we may use for something in the future, perhaps the server) uses udebs.  the other (which we use for the desktop today) does not.
[15:49] <cjwatson> cnd_: don't let me stop you adding the udebs - we will probably want them eventually and we might as well add them while they're uppermost in our minds
[15:49] <cjwatson> cnd_: it just won't affect ubiquity in any way
[15:49] <cnd_> ok
[15:50] <cnd_> at least it lowers the priority for now :)
[15:51] <cnd_> cjwatson, you can review the changes at:
[15:51] <cnd_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~chasedouglas/mtdev/packaging/revision/45
[15:51] <cnd_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~chasedouglas/utouch-grail/packaging/revision/42
[15:52] <cnd_> I suppose we should do the udebs anyways because we don't want to break anyone wishing to play with graphical d-i
[15:52] <cjwatson> cnd_: you can drop debian/libmtdev1.shlibs
[15:52] <cjwatson> right
[15:53] <cnd_> cjwatson, what about the shlib deps checking though?
[15:53] <cjwatson> and likewise you can drop debian/libutouch-grail.shlibs.  the rest is fine
[15:53] <cnd_> the symbols file doesn't know anything about udebs
[15:53] <cjwatson> cnd_: dh_makeshlibs will create that shlibs file all by itself
[15:53] <cjwatson> keep the --add-udeb stuff
[15:54] <cnd_> cjwatson, it didn't seem to do it for me...
[15:54] <cjwatson> let me check
[15:54] <cnd_> I'll check again
[15:54] <cjwatson> certainly there is no need to hardcode the udeb: line in .shlibs
[15:54] <cjwatson> the point of --add-udeb is to add that line
[15:54] <cnd_> ok, I'll try without the line to see
[15:55] <cjwatson> E: libmtdev1-udeb udeb: udeb-contains-documentation-file usr/share/doc/libmtdev1-udeb/
[15:56] <cjwatson> E: libmtdev1-udeb udeb: udeb-contains-documentation-file usr/share/doc/libmtdev1-udeb/buildinfo.gz
[15:56] <cjwatson> that's probably a dh_buildinfo bug
[15:56] <cjwatson> works fine without the .shlibs file
[15:57] <cjwatson> heh, how about I just purge dh-buildinfo here, since you don't build-depend on it :)
[15:57] <cnd_> cjwatson, you're right
[15:57] <cnd_> I think I was looking in the wrong place before
[15:57] <cnd_> thanks for the review!
[15:58] <cjwatson> yep, it's fine now that I've purged dh-buildinfo.  I'll go report that bug
[16:26] <barry> james_w: ping
[16:26] <james_w> hi barry
[16:27] <barry> james_w: hi.  do you have a few minutes to walk through a udd scenario with me?
[16:27] <james_w> of course
[16:28] <barry> thanks!  okay, background: i'm trying to get subversion to build against py27.  it currently fails because of some test failures...
[16:28] <barry> first i did: bzr init-repo svn; cd svn; bzr branch lp:ubuntu/subversion
[16:28] <barry> then bzr branch subversion py27
[16:28] <barry> cd into py27 and loomified that branch
[16:29] <barry> bzr create-thread disable-tests
[16:29] <barry> (note: the "fix" is currently to just disable a handful of failing tests)
[16:29] <barry> hack, hack, hack, build, test, commit change, bzr record
[16:29] <barry> push to lp
[16:30] <barry> okay, so now i have a branch that builds, as a two-thread loom.  so far so good?
[16:30] <james_w> yes
[16:31] <barry> cool.  so, subversion uses quilt and now i want to turn that patch in a thread into a quilt patch.  i've tried a couple of things that haven't succeeded, but i guess let's start with what you'd recommend as the next step?
[16:31] <james_w> something like "bzr diff -r thread: | quilt import disable_tests" would be my guess
[16:32] <barry> james_w: should i do the import in the trunk thread?  in a pristine branch?  doesn't seem right to do it in the thread that contains the source change
[16:33] <james_w> barry: is it quilt v3?
[16:33] <james_w> or v1 + quilt?
[16:33] <barry> james_w: 'what-patch' just says 'quilt'
[16:33] <james_w> cat debian/source/format
[16:34] <james_w> ENOENT means v1
[16:34] <barry> 1.0
[16:36] <james_w> barry: ok, so you could either do the import in a thread without your changes, or do the import in the same thread, and then back the changes out of the working tree
[16:36] <james_w> I don't think it particularly matters, you will end up with the same tree state, so it just depends what you want in the history
[16:37] <barry> james_w: i think i see what you mean.  thanks, let me try that...
[16:41] <barry> james_w: this is interesting.  i tried creating a thread between trunk and disable-tests, called 'quilt'.  then i did a bzr diff -rthread:disable-tests -rthread:trunk and it returned an empty diff.  the same command returned the full diff only if i'm in the disabled-tests thread
[16:42] <james_w> barry: I don't think two -r does what you would expect there
[16:42] <james_w> try -r thread:trunk..thread:disable-tests
[16:42] <barry> james_w: oh right.  so many diff command syntaxes ;)
[16:43] <barry> james_w: that did the trick.  thanks, let's see if quilt will import the diff
[16:44] <james_w> barry: you might need a --prefix=a/:b/ to get it at the natural -p level for quilt
[16:44] <cjwatson> quilt has -p options itself
[16:44] <barry> james_w: quilt import doesn't read from stdin, so i think i need to save it to a file first
[16:45] <cjwatson> so you can use -p0
[16:45] <cjwatson> also, quilt import -p0 /dev/stdin :-)
[16:45] <james_w> barry: huh
[16:45] <barry> cjwatson: yep, just saw that.  i think what tripped me up about trying to use edit-patch is that it *doesn't* take a -p argument, so edit-patch ends up rejecting the patch
[16:45] <james_w> nice :-)
[16:45] <barry> cjwatson, james_w: indeed... let's see!
[16:46] <barry> ah, wait, i need to push all patches first before i import though, right?
[16:48] <barry> cjwatson: that works, except that the patch file is called stdin.  probably not quite right :)
[16:49] <cjwatson>            -P patch
[16:49] <cjwatson>                Patch filename to use inside quilt. This option can only be used when importing a single patch.
[16:52] <barry> cjwatson, james_w: very nice. i think i have a workflow now.  i'm going to write this up, and will send you a link.  thanks for your help!
[16:52]  * barry might even try to automate this
[16:53] <james_w> barry: I'd love a command in bzr-builddeb to turn revisions in to a patch
[16:53] <barry> james_w: you and me both!  do you have a suggestion for a command name?
[16:53] <james_w> like turning a bzr revisionspec for diff in to something for edit-patch
[16:54] <james_w> import-deb-patch for a pretty poor first thought :-)
[16:54] <barry> james_w: i probably have to hack edit-patch to take -p and -P
[16:54] <barry> :)
[16:54] <james_w> barry: it may be easier to get bzr to generate patches that don't need -p
[16:54] <barry> james_w, cjwatson: oh, one other thing.  my thread included a debian/changelog entry.  i need to filter that out of my quilt patch
[16:55] <barry> james_w: yeah, but -P is required i think if you don't use a tmp file
[16:56] <james_w> ah, ok
[16:57] <barry> this has been great, thanks guys
[17:16] <SpamapS> Whats the feeling on a FFE for a package to sync changes from debian that only change the build process to run the automated testing suite? Otherwise the package is basically the same.
[17:18] <cjwatson> SpamapS: what's the feature requiring an exception?
[17:18] <cjwatson> syncing from Debian alone doesn't require an exception, it depends on whether it introduces new features
[17:18] <Chipaca> is there something that would build up a changelog from bzr commit messages?
[17:19] <Chipaca> not a changelog, I mean a changelog entry
[17:19] <SpamapS> libdbi-drivers (in main), the Debian Maintainer and I did considerable work to run automated tests against mysql, pgsql, and sqlite.
[17:19] <SpamapS> cjwatson: ^
[17:19] <SpamapS> cjwatson: so the feature is running the tests.
[17:21] <asac> jdstrand: are you awake?
[17:21] <jdstrand> I am
[17:21] <cjwatson> SpamapS: it's a feature in the build system I suppose, but I don't think it's a feature visible to users of the package (other than "less buggy")
[17:21] <asac> jdstrand: what else besides the bug to track qt-qws code duplication did you want?
[17:21] <cjwatson> SpamapS: so I don't think it needs an exception
[17:21] <asac> seb128: ^^
[17:21] <asac> here is the discussion now
[17:21] <cjwatson> Chipaca: more usual to do it the other way round, write the changelog as you go and use that to generate commit messages (with debcommit)
[17:22] <SpamapS> cjwatson: I'll just requestsync then. :) Thanks!
[17:22] <jdstrand> asac: well, I'm not sure I am the gatekeeper of that bug. I just wanted to make sure that enough people were in agreement that that is the only thing we can do. someone from linaro saying they will maintain it for -security (since it is universe) and people more knowledgeable than I saying the technical issues can only be resolved with a copy copy
[17:23] <Chipaca> cjwatson: right, i want to generate the package changelog based on the individual commits made on the project itself (also in bzr)
[17:23] <jdstrand> s/copy copy/code copy/
[17:24] <cjwatson> Chipaca: usually produces rubbish output, but as you like :)
[17:24] <cjwatson> (don't know of anything; the kernel team does this with git)
[17:25] <SpamapS> james_w: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/libdbi-drivers.html#2010-08-07 15:12:07.002397 ... did we mess up by importing 0.8.3-1 upstream without tagging the change ?
[17:28] <james_w> SpamapS: possibly. Is that version number (0.8.3-1-0ubuntu1) intentional? Do upstream release 0.8.3-1?
[17:29] <Riddell> asac: bug 618733
[17:29] <SpamapS> james_w: yes
[17:29] <james_w> SpamapS: then it's probably a bug in bzr-builddeb
[17:29] <SpamapS> james_w: though as of 0.9 they'll be moving to <IP_ADDRESS>
[17:29] <james_w> let me look
[17:34] <SpamapS> james_w: let me know if I can help
[17:56] <james_w> SpamapS: so yeah, it's caused by a bug in merge-upstream
[18:00] <james_w> SpamapS: I can fix that branch, and then fix the bug as well
[18:01] <SpamapS> james_w: well I'm glad to hear that we didn't screw it up.. but sorry to put more on your plate. ;)
[18:02] <james_w> np, it's my fault for this stupid bug anyway
[18:03] <james_w> SpamapS: if you run "bzr pull lp:ubuntu/libdbi-drivers" and try again it should now work
[18:05] <james_w> SpamapS: let me know if that doesn't work
[18:05] <james_w> I'll fix the bug so that it doesn't happen in future
[18:06] <james_w> SpamapS: oh, if you are trying to merge a new upstream version of this package today then let me know and I'll help you workaround the bug.
[18:10] <SpamapS> james_w: no, I just noticed that it had an error in package-import
[18:10] <SpamapS> james_w: and it was uploaded to Debian today, so I wasn't sure if it was just out of sync w/ debian, or an error. Looks like both. ;)
[18:11] <SpamapS> james_w: by it, I mean a new version of the same upstream.
[18:11] <james_w> SpamapS: ok
[18:14] <SpamapS> james_w: I'll keep an eye on it as the new release is imported into lp:debian, thanks for taking a look.
[18:14] <james_w> np
[18:46] <canesin> Hi all, I want to help maintain an package in ubuntu .. how can I do this ??
[18:48] <johanbr> canesin, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[18:49] <canesin> Thanks
[18:57] <jcole> question about the livecd... i am providing remastered versions and would like to "force" encrypted home directories by default... what config would i modify to make that happen?
[19:37] <seb128> kees, hey, could you review bug #609081?
[19:39] <kees> seb128: sure, one sec
[19:41] <seb128> kees, thanks
[19:54] <soren> StevenK: Doing AA stuff today?
[19:55] <lifeless> soren: @5am? :P
[19:55] <soren> lifeless: Hmm.. point. :)
[20:04] <pitti> isn't it funny how lifeless proves himself wrong? :-)
[20:16] <dobey> is revu closed off now for maverick? or is it just confused at the moment?
[22:13] <james_w> SpamapS: fixed, and will be uploaded soon. Next time you do a new upstream of a package like you shouldn't have a problem. Thanks for catching the issue.


[07:46] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:48] <sliddis> If I change an option in a DHCP-server (eg dns server), and a client has a lease. After half the lease-time the client will ask if it still can use it's address, right? Would the client also apply the new DNS servers from DHCP at the same time? Or does the client have to release and renew completely to receive the new DNS?
[08:50] <rbasak> I think the renewal will cause it to pick up the new DNS servers (through DHCP options present in the renewed lease) but I'm not absolutely sure.
[08:50] <rbasak> The client doesn't *have* to renew at half the lease time. Technically it could wait all the way to the end.
[08:51] <bekks> sliddis: No, it just asks wether the lease is still valid.
[08:51] <bekks> sliddis: For applying new options, you need to request a new IP address.
[09:03] <sliddis> bekks: are you sure? If the client asks if the lease is valid, the server never sends options?
[09:03] <bekks> I am pretty sure of it, yes.
[09:04] <rbasak> In that case a smart DHCP server should refuse the renewal and force the client to take an entirely new lease.
[09:04] <rbasak> No idea whether that happens or not though,.
[09:06] <sliddis> It seems though like the clients have recieved the new dns server. I dont get any firewall hits on the old dns server. Although not verified.
[09:06] <sliddis> I am using a mikrotik routerOS as dns-server
[09:06] <sliddis> I am using a mikrotik routerOS as dhcp-server*
[09:07] <sliddis> not dns -_-
[11:08] <chRi____> Hi all! That's my first activity here so please be kind ;)
[11:08] <chRi____> I'm normaly doing webdevelopment, but since a lot of my colleagues don't bother, I also administer most of the webservers and I'm loving the out-of-the-box configuration that ubuntus vanilla lamp-stack offers...
[11:08] <chRi____> But now I have a strange problem:
[11:08] <chRi____> I installed a Ubuntu Server 14.04.3 LTS as a virtual machine inside a KVM/libvirt infrastructure.
[11:08] <chRi____> My Images are qcow2 and I enabled LVM for my ext4 fs.
[11:08] <chRi____> Strange thing and I'm not sure if it is really Ubuntu related, you guys have to decide:
[11:08] <chRi____> I (re-)installed a php application via composer several times and had the strange result, that all the executable bits where removed from scripts that need to be run right after the php-apps installation. What might be the problem?
[11:08] <chRi____> The git-repo that gets cloned via a packagist-link, has the executable bits, but the decompressed files don't... Any Ideas?
[11:08] <chRi____> I'm able to run other scripts, so at least I assume, there is no "noexec" mount flag set or so...
[11:08] <chRi____> I would be really glad if someone could help or has also experienced such behaviour in the past!
[11:08] <chRi____> Best Regards,
[11:08] <chRi____> Christian
[11:13] <bekks> git doesnt keep track of executable permissions, since thats irrelevant for a RCS.
[11:15] <rbasak> Yes it does.
[11:15] <rbasak> $ git diff
[11:15] <rbasak> diff --git a/foo b/foo
[11:15] <rbasak> old mode 100644
[11:15] <rbasak> new mode 100755
[11:16] <rbasak> It's only the executable bit mind. I had actually set foo to 0700 in that example.
[11:16] <bekks> Then how does it handle permissions for two different client OS?
[11:16] <rbasak> No idea. All I'm saying is that it does track the executable bit (but not whether it's assigned to user, group or other - it seems to just be one bit)
[11:17] <bekks> ah ok.
[11:17] <chRi____> @rbasak: that's what I also exprienced until yesterday
[11:18] <chRi____> excutable bit was still there
[11:18] <rbasak> chRi____: I don't know what composer is.
[11:18] <rbasak> chRi____: but your problem lies in the area of how you deploy it
[11:18] <chRi____> its a package manager for php
[11:19] <rbasak> You are welcome to try here but you might find more people are likely to know the answer in a PHP related channel or something.
[11:19] <rbasak> It doesn't sound like your problem is Ubuntu-specific.
[11:28] <chRi____> You maybe right... But I'm asking here, because I have an Arch Workstation at home and the the same composer-based installation leaves the executable bits intact
[11:29] <chRi____> And I can't remember that I had this problem before, when I used 14.04.1 LTS or so...
[11:35] <rbasak> There could be a bug in Ubuntu then, or a bug in composer in how it handles an Ubuntu system.
[11:36] <rbasak> Somebody who knows composer will need to pin it down.
[11:36] <rbasak> Is composer packaged in Ubuntu or are you installing it from an external source?
[11:40] <chRi____> since it really is just an php application archive it's installed via curl and you can than install it "globally" by simlinking the composer.phar
[11:40] <chRi____> I will try to get in  touch with the composer-minds!
[11:40] <chRi____> thanks!
[12:48] <alximych> hi! I intstalled fail2ban and each time I start the service I receive an email notification that fail2ban was started. I have already tried to create a senamail.local, mail.local, sendmail-common.local, etc. files and override actionstart = (nothing), but I still get notifications. How do I disable service started/stopped mail notifications?
[12:50] <smo80> hi
[12:52] <smo80> i have a new fujitsu primergy tx 1330 m1 server... with damn hardware raid controller.... first i made a software thru ubuntu installer, no problems but when i reboot i don t have anything to choose in the bios to boot on, so i created a raid array thru the raid controller interface on boot... it add an raid arrray"
[12:52] <smo80> option to the bios
[12:53] <smo80> but once i return to ubuntu installer i can t make the partitions as i want... i m trying lvm, i can create my group and logical volumes but don t know what to choose at the grub-install , /dev/????
[12:54] <smo80> i tried /dev/sda, /dev/mapper/md126 and others it always fail
[13:00] <alximych> *solved my issue by creating 9 .local files...
[13:06] <pmatulis> morning
[13:27] <smoser> hey. an someone who has a "fresh"-ish ubuntu run 'echo $TERM' from a gnome-terminal ?
[13:27] <smoser> i'm pretty sure i've not touched that, but one can never be sure.
[14:06] <rbasak> smoser: xterm on gnome-terminal on a system that booted Vivid but is actually now running Wily (not rebooted yet).
[14:07] <rbasak> Though it's not really a fresh machine. Upgraded for many years. I don't recall ever touching terminal stuff though.
[14:07] <smoser> and ?
[14:07] <rbasak> "xterm"
[14:23] <fishcooker> i have 2 dns cache, 1 server take so long to resolve yahoo.co.uk, but the another one take short time to resolve, how to inspect the case?
[15:48] <soc42> hi
[15:48] <soc42> i want to configure xdebug settings on ubuntu 12.04, but can't find the right .ini file to change these settings
[15:49] <soc42> the .ini-files i found only containt the path to the xdebug.so module, but no xdebug config options... ?
[15:52] <soc42> as i am doing a $> php -i the current xdebug settings appear, but where the heck are they set?
[15:52] <soc42> i checked all files, which appear for $> php --ini
[15:55] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Argh, just upgraded to wily and now I'm hitting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1463072
[15:56] <smoser> :)
[15:56] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: I'd be tempted to say that we should be doing something to make this less painful for our users.
[15:56] <Odd_Bloke> Though as I am one of those users, I am somewhat biased. :p
[16:00] <Odd_Bloke> In fact, I might just stop using gnome-terminal.
[16:08] <rbasak> hallyn_: need any help with bug 1490110?
[16:13] <hallyn_> rbasak: yes i do.  got any idea what's going on there?
[16:14] <rbasak> hallyn_: no idea, I've not looked apart from confirming the reproducer. I can start digging though I only have 45 minutes left today. I can carry on looking tomorrow.
[16:14] <arrrghhh> Hey all.  Still having issues with syslog, kern.log, auth.log etc being completely empty and untouched files.  I found a bug which looks like it's related, but the 'fix' didn't work for me.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsyslog/+bug/1059854
[16:15] <Overand> Is there any reason I should or shouldn't use ext2/3/4 for /boot?
[16:15] <Overand> (Do we need /boot anymore? I'm looking at using LVM, so, mayube?)
[16:16] <jpds> Overand: No, grub can do LVM
[16:16] <Overand> Also, thoughts on using XFS vs EXT4?  This is 14.04
[16:16] <jpds> Overand: You only need a /boot when you do encrypted /
[16:16] <jpds> Overand: XFS is useful for lots of small files I think
[16:16] <Overand> 75% of my systems are 14.04 with ext4, ~5% are 12.04, and ~15% are CentOS 7 with XFS
[16:16] <hallyn_> rbasak: it kinda rings a bell of when i converted libvirtd to systemd,
[16:16] <jpds> Overand: For /boot, you could probably just do ext4
[16:17] <Overand> (I more meant xfs for / or /var maybe, but I don't really care one wya or another)
[16:17] <hallyn_> so system was systemd, but no systme job so sysvinit job was running.  on upgrade, systemd lost track of the sysvinit job.
[16:17] <hallyn_> but, that cant be the case really...
[16:17] <Overand> Just building out a new template, wondering what the best-practices are these days.  Defaults on Ubuntu have been EXT4 so I've been using EXT4, likewise XFS on CentOS 7
[16:18] <RoyK> jpds: XFS historically was rather bad on lots of small files, but I think most of that has been fixed now
[16:18] <Overand> I'll probably stick with ext4, but I suppose I'll want to enable xattrs unless there's some raeson not to
[16:18] <RoyK> jpds: Apart from that, the only reason I'd recommend ext4 over xfs is if you ever would want to shrink the filesystem
[16:19] <RoyK> Overand: I don't know any reason not to use xattr - it's been stable for years
[16:20] <RoyK> the main reason redhat switched to XFS was for big-ish data - ext4 isn't very good on large filesystems when you have to do an fsck
[16:20] <Overand> These will probably just be fairly bog-standard LAMP servers usually
[16:20] <RoyK> I had to fsck a 9TiB fs some weeks back, and it took ~8 hours
[16:20] <Overand> At least so it seems based on our trajectory
[16:21] <Overand> RoyK: Yeah, I ahve a fairly large ext4 volume at home.  RAID 6 setup with 5 2TB SATA disks
[16:21] <Overand> like 85% of the array is sliced up as raid 6, actually, the rest is RAID 10 and raid 1
[16:21]  * Overand really wishes everyone ever involved in ZFS could get into a room and sign a licensing change
[16:22] <jpds> Overand: Probably easier to use btrfs
[16:22] <RoyK> Overand: hehe - you can use zfsonlinux, though
[16:22] <RoyK> jpds: really?
[16:23] <RoyK> jpds: last I checked, raid[56] on btrfs was still experimentally
[16:23] <jpds> RoyK: I read these days that it performs better than zfs
[16:23] <jpds> RoyK: Yeah, the raid[56] part is the only flaky bit
[16:23] <RoyK> I'm not sure
[16:25] <jpds> http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:822493/FULLTEXT01.pdf
[16:25] <arrrghhh> although bug 1059854 doesn't really match up with my issue... rebooting the server/rsyslog service I still do not get any logging...
[16:27] <Overand> the raid5/6 part is the paort i want
[16:27] <Overand> well, raid 6/7
[16:27] <Overand> (coupled with the checksumming features and such)
[16:28] <Overand> god there are so many friggin' filesystems out there
[16:29] <quantic> "raid 7" interesting.
[16:29] <Overand> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_file_systems#Disk_file_systems
[16:29] <Overand> quantic: raid 6 isn't going to be that useful for long
[16:29] <Overand> they need to start naming them differently though
[16:29] <Overand> it should be raid 6+1 or somesuch
[16:30] <Overand> http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-raid-6-stops-working-in-2019/
[16:30] <quantic> yeah, raid 7 doesn't actually exist.
[16:31] <quantic> Except for one proprietary thing from one company.
[16:31] <jpds> RAID10 is what seems to be suggested these days
[16:31] <quantic> RAID10 for active data, RAID6 for archive data.
[16:33] <quantic> RAID6 can be used for active data if it's bulk, non-write-heavy data like a fileserver.
[16:33] <quantic> But if you want to know what pain is, run a database server off of RAID6. :P
[16:34] <RoyK> jpds: depending on use
[16:35] <RoyK> quantic: depends on the database - a typical LAMP server's database can reside happily on r6
[16:37] <RoyK> quantic: it all depends on how much iops you need
[16:39] <quantic> RoyK: I think that that's kinda obvious... or I wouldn't have mentioned write-heaviness as a decision point.
[16:42] <RoyK> quantic: most people don't databases that demanding
[16:43] <quantic> RoyK: That's true. Sorry, I'm used to high-demand databases. Enterprise environments and that.
[16:44] <RoyK> quantic: I'm managing some database servers at work (college with 25k students and 2k employees) and we don't have much that requires r10, even if we use it for them
[16:44] <quantic> RoyK: By high-demand I mean write-heavy as HELL.
[16:44] <quantic> RoyK: What's the read-write load of your database? Just curious.
[16:48] <RoyK> quantic: I haven't really checked - sar -b reports 10:1 write/read on the postgres thing, and something 3:1 write/read on the mysql thing
[16:48] <RoyK> wait - that's bytes
[16:48] <RoyK> a lot more writes according to sar's tps data
[16:53] <qman__> I've been using ZFS on Linux for over a year now, there were some bumps in the beginning but it's been pretty stable since
[16:54] <qman__> And those bumps were stuff like manually adding a boot wait so it'd assemble properly
[16:54] <RoyK> qman__: tbh, I haven't seen any issues at all after my PSU was replaced with something big enough to handle all the drives :)
[16:54] <qman__> And tweaking the arc size
[16:55] <arrrghhh> so... any ideas on my logging issue?  nothing is getting to syslog, auth.log, kern.log... they are 0b files which haven't been touched in a while.
[16:55] <RoyK> arrrghhh: lsof -p `pidof rsyslogd`
[16:56] <RoyK> arrrghhh: perhaps it's not been properly reloaded after logs were rotated
[16:56] <arrrghhh> yea I found a bug which suggested changing 'reload' to 'restart'... but that didn't make a difference in my case
[16:56] <RoyK> arrrghhh: a killall -1 rsyslogd should make it reload its config, close its open files and reopen them
[16:57] <arrrghhh> wow that lsof command put out a lot.  let me redirect to a file
[16:57] <RoyK> paste it to pastebinit ;)
[16:57] <RoyK> that is
[16:57] <arrrghhh> oh.  9662: command not found
[16:58] <arrrghhh> lsof: status error on 9662: No such file or directory
[16:58] <RoyK> lsof -p `pidof rsyslogd` | pastebinit
[16:58] <RoyK> did you forget -p ?
[16:58] <arrrghhh> derp I did -l
[16:58] <arrrghhh> what is wrong with me today...
[16:59] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12886930/
[16:59] <arrrghhh> w/sudo http://paste.ubuntu.com/12886934/
[17:00] <arrrghhh> hm.  doesn't seem to be interacting with any of the /var/log 'system' files.
[17:00] <arrrghhh> mythtv is logging properly tho, I can confirm that
[17:01] <RoyK> arrrghhh: did you do something interesting to the rsyslog config?
[17:02] <arrrghhh> RoyK, well I did make a change after I noticed the issue based on that bug 1059854
[17:03] <arrrghhh> hm I didn't try this "create 640 syslog adm" to /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog
[17:03] <arrrghhh> I swapped "reload" with "restart"... I think there was a different bug I was looking at yesterday
[17:03] <RoyK> arrrghhh: which version of ubuntu is this?
[17:03] <arrrghhh> 14.04
[17:04] <RoyK> never seen that issue...
[17:05] <arrrghhh> evidently I haven't looked at system logs in a while, it almost appears this has been an issue since the upgrade
[17:05] <arrrghhh> I went from 12.04 to 14.04 last summer
[17:06] <RoyK> arrrghhh: please pastebin /etc/rsyslog.conf and the files under /etc/rsyslog.d
[17:06] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12886986/
[17:06] <marka13> Does anyone know if Landscape/Autopilot have their own channel?
[17:07] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12886992/
[17:08] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12886994/
[17:08] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12886996/
[17:08] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12886998/
[17:10] <RoyK> arrrghhh: try to stop rsyslogd and start it manually with -d
[17:11] <arrrghhh> hm stopping the service and the process is still running... kill -9 tiem
[17:11] <arrrghhh> marka13, I just searched, there is #ubuntu-autopilot
[17:12] <arrrghhh> RoyK, http://paste.ubuntu.com/12887022/
[17:13] <RoyK> arrrghhh: check lsof again
[17:15] <arrrghhh> hm looks about the same...
[17:15] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12887042/
[17:15] <RoyK> can you try to move the mythtv file aside and restart rsyslogd?
[17:15] <arrrghhh> interesting that rsyslog is still running but it stopped putting text into the terminal...
[17:16] <arrrghhh> RoyK, so mv /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log 'somewhere else'?
[17:17] <RoyK> arrrghhh: /root or something
[17:17] <RoyK> erm
[17:17] <RoyK> no
[17:17] <RoyK> not the log
[17:17] <arrrghhh> /tmp?
[17:17] <RoyK> the one in /etc/rsyslog.d/
[17:17] <arrrghhh> oh 10-4
[17:17] <RoyK> arrrghhh: don't use /tmp, some distros wipe that from time to time or even use tmpfs, so never store anything valueable there
[17:18] <arrrghhh> alright put it in ~
[17:18] <RoyK> (which probably is /root)
[17:18] <RoyK> make sure the process is dead before you try to start things again
[17:19] <arrrghhh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12887066/ startup
[17:19] <arrrghhh> yea I kill -9'd it
[17:19] <arrrghhh> lsof http://paste.ubuntu.com/12887068/
[17:19] <RoyK> run 'logger "what's happening to my system???"'
[17:20] <arrrghhh> syslog is still 0b
[17:20] <arrrghhh> I assume that should insert to syslog?
[17:20] <RoyK> it should indeed
[17:20] <RoyK> Oct 21 19:20:46 roysk roysk: what's happening to my system???
[17:21] <arrrghhh> ya empty... looking at perms, is this correct?
[17:21] <arrrghhh> -rw-r-----  1 root      adm       0 Aug  8  2014 syslog
[17:21] <arrrghhh> shouldn't it be syslog adm?
[17:21] <RoyK> it's root:adm here
[17:21] <arrrghhh> hm.  File hasn't been touched since 8/2014 :/
[17:22] <RoyK> remove the log files and try to restart rsyslogd again
[17:22] <arrrghhh> k
[17:23] <RoyK> (or move them away)
[17:24] <arrrghhh> yay lsof shows it's accessing them
[17:24] <RoyK> perhaps time for a little fsck ;)
[17:24] <arrrghhh> and it appears to have a non-zero size
[17:24] <arrrghhh> ehm
[17:24] <arrrghhh> it shows syslog:adm now... probably because of that change I made
[17:24] <arrrghhh> -rw-r-----  1 syslog    adm     397 Oct 21 11:23 syslog
[17:25] <arrrghhh> Oct 21 11:23:28 nas rsyslogd-2039: Could no open output pipe '/dev/xconsole': No such file or directory [try http://www.rsyslog.com/e/2039 ]
[17:25] <arrrghhh> that may be an issue....
[17:26] <arrrghhh> but auth.log is working, kern.log
[17:26] <arrrghhh> what else did I delete other than syslog
[17:26] <arrrghhh> well those are the main ones I care about.  odd issue... thanks RoyK !
[17:27] <RoyK> arrrghhh: I suspect an old logrotate config may change the user to root after its run
[17:28] <arrrghhh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsyslog/+bug/940030 << per that bug I changed /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog
[17:28] <arrrghhh> I added create 640 syslog adm
[17:28] <RoyK> arrrghhh: ok
[17:28] <RoyK> arrrghhh: at least now you know where the error was - if it happens again, please call
[17:29] <arrrghhh> :) thanks!!!
[17:29] <RoyK> np :)
[17:48] <marka13> does landscape/autopilot have their own channel?
[17:49] <arrrghhh> marka13, I just searched, there is #ubuntu-autopilot
[17:49] <arrrghhh> (fyi I said that almost an hour ago :P)
[17:50] <marka13> sorry didn't see it
[17:50] <arrrghhh> np, I did ping you hoping you would
[17:50] <arrrghhh> it was mixed in with my troubleshooting mess
[17:50] <marka13> ya saw that
[17:50] <marka13> and I've been in TS hell myself  ;-)
[19:51] <atralheaven_> Hello, I need someone outside of china, to test my openvpn connection. I can't connect to it I want to know if it is because of country firewalling
[19:52] <rbasak> I'd ask someone you know personally! Do you really want some stranger connecting to your VPN? Similarly, I don't want to connect to some stranger's VPN, as a malicious one could do weird things to my system.
[19:54] <jpds> atralheaven_: You know that the great firewall doesn't block SSH at all?
[19:55] <atralheaven_> rbasak: I just want to see if it connects, and the ip is right, you don't need to browse with it! and I will revoke the certs so its not a problem
[19:55] <atralheaven_> jpds: Im using it now, but I need openvpn, it was working.... now it doesn't
[19:56] <jpds> atralheaven_: Why do you need openvpn when you have working ssh?
[19:56] <atralheaven_> jpds: openvpn is faster and works easily everywhere.
[19:56] <atralheaven_> may just someone help me to test it :(
[20:06] <atralheaven_> is it something risky?
[20:08] <rbasak> atralheaven_: an OpenVPN server can send arbitrary routes that the client will put into its routing table, for a start.
[20:09] <rbasak> It might be possible to disable that at the client end, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone connect to an untrusted OpenVPN server for security reasons.
[20:09] <atralheaven_> rbasak: what about testing on a vm?
[20:10] <rbasak> Also the server might be able to route via a client, too.
[20:10] <rbasak> So nobody can be sure that you aren't intending to use the client's Internet connection for nefarious purposes.
[20:10] <rbasak> That applies to a VM, too.
[20:11] <atralheaven_> rbasak: what about connecting just for a second? to see it connects, and doesn't fail
[20:11] <rbasak> Ask someone you trust.
[20:11] <rbasak> (and who trusts you)
[20:11] <atralheaven_> if I had someone outside of here who could help me I wouldn't come here :|
[20:13] <rbasak> Buy some instance time on EC2 or something.
[20:13] <atralheaven_> if I run ssh socks on my system, and then connect to openvpn, if the problem be from the country firewalling, should I be able to connect?
[20:15] <atralheaven_> for using openvpn with obfsproxy, do I need 2 servers? I have one vps
[20:46] <ponyofdeath> anyone have any ideas why using ssh -f -N -D 8080 to set up a tsocks proxy times out after tyring to use it?
[20:46] <ponyofdeath> i have tsocks and the tunnel set up


[02:55] <Chat1607> Allo
[04:12] <Stevely2003> Hi everyone
[04:14] <DarwinSurvivor> hi
[04:14] <Stevely2003> Other than re-installing...  how would I correct the following error while trying to use single-sign-on (Ubuntu 11.10)...   Method "CreateItem" with signature "a{sv}(oayay)b" on interfact "org.freedesktop.Secret.Collection" doesn't exist.
[04:15] <Stevely2003> (This is for connecting to Ubuntu One)
[04:17] <DarwinSurvivor> looks like an old bug
[04:17] <DarwinSurvivor> did this happen after a clean install, after trying Ubuntu-One for the first time, spontaneously, or after you changed something?
[04:18] <Stevely2003> It's a fresh install, didn't get a chance to install anything else...  was just trying to sign-on to Ubuntu One.
[04:18] <Stevely2003> (anything else = nothing)
[04:18] <Stevely2003> first time
[04:19] <DarwinSurvivor> Is there any particular reason why you installed 11.10 (which is not supported starting in April)?
[04:19] <Stevely2003> Only version I had on CD. (Installing on an older PIII laptop with CD rom drive; 512MB ram)
[04:20] <DarwinSurvivor> ah
[04:20] <Stevely2003> :-)
[04:20] <DarwinSurvivor> well, that version is going to no longer get any updates (for desktop edition) starting in april, so I'd recommend installing a newer release anyways
[04:21] <DarwinSurvivor> If you are worried about performance, xubuntu or lubuntu (xubuntu is a little easier) run much quicker than regular ubuntu
[04:21] <Stevely2003> Yeah, that's what I want to do... but don't have a dvd rom.
[04:21] <Stevely2003> yes, performance is awful right now...
[04:22] <Stevely2003> xubuntu... I'll have to look it up and give it a try.
[04:23] <DarwinSurvivor> xubuntu is available on the ubuntu website. You can install from a usb drive if you don't have a burner.
[04:23] <DarwinSurvivor> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[04:24] <Stevely2003> Not sure the laptop will boot from USB...  I'll check the bios and see the boot order...
[04:24] <Stevely2003> (Yeah, I saw xubuntu.org and lubuntu.net sites...)
[04:24] <DarwinSurvivor> oh, my bad, xubuntu is on its own website now
[04:24] <DarwinSurvivor> http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
[04:25] <DarwinSurvivor> the usb instructions in the first link will still work for xubuntu :)
[04:25] <Stevely2003> I've tried Knoppix 6.7 too...  that one was very much faster than Ubuntu 11.10.
[04:26] <DarwinSurvivor> yes, standard ubuntu is no longer recommended for slow/old hardware as it uses compiz with 3d acceleration for the default desktop
[04:26] <DarwinSurvivor> If you don't want to do a full reinstall, you can install the xubuntu-desktop package (which installs the xfce part of xubuntu) and then upgrade to 12.04
[04:27] <DarwinSurvivor> If you go that route, I recommend removing the ubuntu-desktop package before the upgrade so you don't have to download all the new gnome/unity stuff (will make the upgrade faster)
[04:28] <Stevely2003> probably easier to just do the full install
[04:28] <DarwinSurvivor> Stevely2003: probably, unless you can't get it to boot off the usb
[04:29] <DarwinSurvivor> the xubuntu install is also fairly small, so it won't take as long as the ubuntu one did
[04:29] <DarwinSurvivor> do you know the difference between standard and LTS releases?
[04:29] <Stevely2003> only that LTS is long term support?
[04:29] <DarwinSurvivor> that's part of it
[04:30] <DarwinSurvivor> I would recommend installing 12.04 (LTS) or 12.10 (current)
[04:30] <DarwinSurvivor> 12.10 is the newest version (came out in October) and is supported until April 2014
[04:31] <DarwinSurvivor> 12.04 is an LTS (actually, it's a LONG long term support!) which is supported until April 2017
[04:31] <Stevely2003> why the much longer support for that version?
[04:31] <DarwinSurvivor> If you want fully updated software and usually upgrade every 6 or 12 months anyways, go with 12.10 (and 13.04 in April)
[04:32] <DarwinSurvivor> if you don't want to have to worry about upgrades for a long time and don't mind some of your software being older (you still get security updates), go with 12.0
[04:32] <DarwinSurvivor> if you don't want to have to worry about upgrades for a long time and don't mind some of your software being older (you still get security updates), go with 12.04
[04:32] <DarwinSurvivor> I'm not sure why that one got 5 years instead of the standard 3 year LTS support, it was something Canonical decided and there have been a few reasons given
[04:33] <Stevely2003> ok...  12.04 it is...
[04:33] <Stevely2003> Thanks for the info and suggestions.
[04:33] <DarwinSurvivor> There's rumours of them switching to rolling release (no more explicit releases) in the next few years, so who knows what will be happening by the time that LTS runs out :P
[04:33] <DarwinSurvivor> no problem
[04:33] <DarwinSurvivor> if you come back for help and no-one answers, just stick around for a bit. it sometimes takes 20 minutes or so for someone to notice the activity.
[04:34] <DarwinSurvivor> if you need something urgent the #ubuntu channel is usually well-staffed 24/7
[04:34] <DarwinSurvivor> I tend to miss people's questions by like 5 minutes :(
[04:35] <Stevely2003> No worries.  I haven't been in IRC since 1993/1994...  this brings back memories...   like /me is gonna get some shut-eye soon.
[04:35] <DarwinSurvivor> lol
[04:36] <Stevely2003> Ok. onto the booting usb dance.  Thanks again. Talk to you some other time.