[07:18] <jamespage> LocutusOfBorg: ack - I'll pull into the git repository as well
[07:18] <jamespage> I'll need to review recent uploads for groovy and focal as well
[07:18] <jamespage> as I suspect they have the same issue
[08:34] <LocutusOfBorg> jamespage, I don't think focal is affected, but groovy is
[08:35] <LocutusOfBorg> in focal it was still including _statx.h file, and it is there
[09:55] <jamespage> LocutusOfBorg: 15.2.5 is in the UNAPPROVED queue without the required headers changes
[09:55] <jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ceph/+bug/1901323
[09:55] <jamespage> there is another file as well
[10:41] <LocutusOfBorg> jamespage, do you care to also fix hirsute?
[10:42] <LocutusOfBorg> I mean, I don't know the "another file"
[10:45] <LocutusOfBorg> seb128, hello, FYI I "syncd" sane-backends from sid, I uploaded your fix there and fakesynced, let me know how good it is (the --enable-lock has just been removed instead of converted into --disable-lock)
[11:10] <jamespage> LocutusOfBorg: yeah can do
[11:30] <jamespage> amurray: when you're about - could you have a peek at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iptables/+bug/1898547
[11:31] <jamespage> I'm always somewhat reticent to pick and upload in such a security critical package :)
[13:13] <jdstrand> amurray: if you need sponsoring of iptables for jamespage, let me know
[13:54] <jamespage> thanks jdstrand
[16:21] <seb128> LocutusOfBorg, thanks, no option vs disable, I usually find it cleared and safer to be explicit but if it works then's it's ok I guess?
[18:59] <sil2100> !dmb-ping
[18:59] <teward> ah a ping
[18:59] <teward> ye my turn for chair again
[18:59] <teward> sil2100: might be 3 min late, on a call w/ a coworker atm
[19:42] <tsimonq2> pong
[19:42] <tsimonq2> wtf daylight savings
[19:47] <teward> tsimonq2: you're late as heck
[19:47] <tsimonq2> Meh, probably
[21:12] <ItzSwirlz> o/ I have a patch for two packages on one bug, this will eventually have to be approved for Groovy aswell, but is a MOTU or someone like that able to review my patch?
[21:47] <mwhudson> doko: i think staying in sync is ok for devel\
[22:55] <amurray> jamespage: no worries - will look at that today


 Bit of an early bird but then that depends on where in the world you are.
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> morning everyone
[08:08] <diplo> morning
[08:19] <DJones> Morning all
[08:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Glowing bio-LED trees could replace street lights: http://is.gd/hp3zP Is that cool or what?
[08:53] <finelytuned> o/
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> would be annoying though
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> you can turn off street lights if you have to
[08:54] <finelytuned> MartijnVdS: i'm gonna do some more study today... so might have some newb problems i'll need help with if your on here
[08:54] <BigRedS> bioLED? where's the 'd' bit?
[08:56] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:56] <finelytuned> morning screen-x
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Dunno. Maybe each leaf is a diode?
[09:00] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: Haha, perhaps. I suppose 'led' has come to mean 'modern light source' rather than, well, LED...
[09:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon czajkowski
[09:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ping free for a call later on
[09:11] <mattt> soooo tired
[09:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: AlanBell is out at the moment, networking in Godalming
[09:14] <czajkowski> where?
[09:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> in Godalming
[09:15] <czajkowski> *googles* doesnt sound like a real place
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> It is a very nice small town not far from Guildford.
[09:16] <czajkowski> ahhh
[09:16] <czajkowski> ok thanks
[09:16] <czajkowski> shall poke him later re some event
[09:16] <czajkowski> thank you
[09:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> np
[09:19] <AlanBell> back now
[09:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> that was quick
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice - Francis Maude: "I want to personally encourage the army of armchair auditors to look at  this information, scrutinise and question us and ensure that every penny  of taxpayers money is being spent judiciously."
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/19/francis-maude-government-data-published
[09:21] <AlanBell> yes, didn't hang about today, had to get back for the piano tuner
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Our came last week
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\Our\Ours
[09:22] <AlanBell> we have *very* different pianos
[09:22] <popey> morning all
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[09:22] <finelytuned> o/ popey
[09:23] <AlanBell> my piano is not finelytuned
[09:23] <finelytuned> ouchies
[09:24] <finelytuned> :)
[09:24] <czajkowski> AlanBell: when is good for a call re event today?
[09:25] <AlanBell> any time this afternoon
[09:29]  * popey notes that working around the nasty work proxy is useful
[09:29] <popey> unfortunately once co-workers know about it I end up having to print stuff like this http://www.curchods.com/display/104703?n=7
[09:30] <popey> because the estate agent links their pictures directly to IP address hosts, not hostnamed hosts, so thats blocked
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> *facepalm*
[09:37]  * screen-x is moving forward in the queue and will be connected to an advisor shortly
[09:38] <popey> ooo reminds me, need to call apple
[09:39] <gord> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/229961 huh, £55 for a hd media player - interesting machine
[09:43] <popey> that is an interesting device gord
[09:43] <screen-x> gord: no NIC, but maybe could do something with that usb socket..
[09:44]  * popey has an apple usb to ethernet device
[09:44] <popey> and a nintendo one :)
[09:45] <screen-x> popey: you have an MBA as well?
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> do they work in Ubuntu?
[09:45] <popey> no
[09:45] <popey> MartijnVdS: yes
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: with or without dirty hacks?
[09:46] <popey> just works
[09:46] <jpds> popey: Do you find that it adds overhead?
[09:46] <popey> do i find what adds overhead to what?
[09:47] <gord> to the giggybytes?
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> "is it laggy"
[09:48] <popey> not sure what you mean
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> popey: well, with some USB disks you notice it's USB because it is (or "feels") slower
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> We're wondering if that's the case with usb-ethernet as well
[09:50] <gmb> Can anyone recommend a good DAS unit that supports RAID0,1, has a FireWire 400/800 interface and either comes with (at least) 2x1TB drive or is an empty shell which will happily support up to 2x2TB?
[09:50] <MartijnVdS> gmb: and a pony?
[09:50] <gmb> MartijnVdS: And a plastic rocket.
[09:50] <popey> gmb: EDGE10
[09:50] <gmb> popey: I thought that was USB and eSATA
[09:50] <popey> oh, duh, sorry
[09:51] <popey> buy my drobo off me then :)
[09:51] <danfish> morning
[09:51] <gmb> Hahahahaah.
[09:51] <kazade> morning all
[09:51] <popey> (it has fw)
[09:51] <screen-x> gmb why fw?
[09:51] <gmb> popey: Between you and Drew Gardner I've been absolutely convinced not to do that.
[09:51] <popey> excellent, good man
[09:51] <popey> morning kazade
[09:51] <kazade> popey, https://launchpad.net/platformation
[09:51] <popey> MartijnVdS: not noticed, but not tested very much, will test later tonight if you remind me
[09:51] <gmb> screen-x: MacBook Pro has USB or FireWire, no eSATA. And I need to shift large amounts of data (images and video) at speed.
[09:52] <kazade> Got round to registering it just now :)
[09:52] <popey> yay
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you manage to fit all the snow-preparation stuff in your car btw?
[09:52] <screen-x> gmb: that's the only time I've used fw800 :)
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> gmb: gig-e ;)
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> gmb: macbooks also have that
[09:53] <gmb> MartijnVdS: True, but I'd like to not have to upgrade my somewhat crappy network infrastructure whilst I'm at it.
[09:53] <popey> :) MartijnVdS
[10:02] <daubers> o/
[10:02] <screen-x> morning daubers :)
[10:04] <daubers> gmb: NFS is your friend in that situation :)
[10:06]  * daubers quite often shifts data around at 108+MB/s
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> hmmmm data
[10:06] <gmb> daubers: See above re: crappy network. But point taken.
[10:07] <daubers> gmb: Take a small shuttle PC with a 2/3disk raid to the desk, crossover between them, NFS to it, move on :)
[10:08] <daubers> If ones a MBP you can actually make it a firewire target
[10:08]  * popey coughs up a drobo
[10:08] <daubers> gmb: Hold down T while it's booting, it'll become a firewire target
[10:08] <gmb> daubers: I like your thinking :)
[10:08] <screen-x> target disk mode.. why on earth is that in firmware rather than OS?
[10:09] <daubers> screen-x: I'd imagine it's something on the board that does it. Part of the EFI somewhere
[10:10] <popey> gmb: setup a new network? buy a GbE switch and just have the storage and the mbp on it
[10:10] <screen-x> daubers: would useful if you could do it from disk utility
[10:10] <shauno> I'm not sure exporting the entire physical disk as a read-write target would be sensible while there's an OS running on it
[10:11] <screen-x> shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export
[10:11] <popey> in a laptop?
[10:11] <screen-x> or partition etc
[10:11] <popey> unlikely on a mac
[10:11] <daubers> popey: Mac Pros do it too
[10:11] <popey> yes
[10:11] <popey> thats what I'm saying
[10:11] <popey> 10:11:04 < screen-x> shauno: yeah, but you may have another disk you want to export
[10:11] <daubers> mac pros can take 4 disks by default, come with caddies too
[10:11] <popey> 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop?
[10:11] <screen-x> maybe partition wouldn't work
[10:11] <popey> oh, desktops?
[10:12] <daubers> popey: I think we've moved away from gmb's specific case
[10:12] <shauno> I'm sure there's 101 ways to export a filesystem or block device over a network.  having target-disk being no-os has saved my skin many times
[10:12]  * popey considers himself shutup
[10:12] <daubers> popey: Yep, mac pro, not macbook pro :)
[10:12] <gmb> If anyone has a Mac Pro they want to give me, I'm open to it.
[10:13] <daubers> gmb: What are you taking the data too off the MBP?
[10:13]  * screen-x imagines some trade show booth giving away branded mac pros
[10:13] <daubers> screen-x: Razorlab laser etches the,
[10:13] <daubers> them
[10:14] <daubers> screen-x: http://www.razorlab.co.uk/itattoo/
[10:14] <Darael> ost of Linux  |
[10:14] <Darael> What?
[10:14] <Darael> Whoops.
[10:14] <Darael> Sorry.
[10:18] <gmb> daubers: I'm not sure I understand your question.
[10:18] <daubers> gmb: Is this a one shot thing or something that will become regular?
[10:19] <daubers> gmb: Also are you going from MBP -> ? or ? -> MBP?
[10:19] <gmb> daubers: Regular. Basically I'll be dumping large wodges (4GB+) of data (images, videos, audio) onto it and then editing them from the MBP.
[10:19] <popey> 10:11:12 < popey> in a laptop?
[10:19] <popey> oops
[10:19] <daubers> gmb: What data rate video (also, welcome to my office :) )
[10:20] <daubers> gmb: Also is this a company thing or a personal thing?
[10:22] <gmb> daubers: Personal. We're talking video from a 5D or D7000, so it's about 38Mb/s, I'd expect.
[10:22] <gmb> I'm taking a punt on the bitrate of the D7000, but it's a reasonable ballpark.
[10:22] <daubers> gmb: A lot of people in your situation use something like http://www.lacie.com/uk/products/product.htm?pid=11142 but in a post house they'd use either a fibre san (depending on no. seats) or a nice big raid connected over nfs
[10:23] <gmb> daubers: Yeah, as a one man op the LaCie is tempting. I've heard bad things about noise levels from it (which is irritating if you're recording VOs)
[10:24] <daubers> gmb: RAID is normally on it's own isolated network to reduce traffic and switches coughing at latency
[10:24] <gmb> daubers: Right. A crossover is about as isolated as it gets :)
[10:25] <daubers> gmb: If you're looking at spending £lots you can build a small linux box with 4/5 disks in raid 5, you'll easily saturate GigE over NFS
[10:26] <popey> how portable does it need to be?
[10:26] <gmb> daubers: I think I'll start with £NotALot :)
[10:26] <gmb> popey: Not very.
[10:26] <popey> studio based?
[10:26] <daubers> gmb: But if the data is coming off a different machine, get a firewire cable and hold T when you boot the MBP, that makes the MBP into a firewire drive
[10:27] <gmb> daubers: Noted, thanks.
[10:27] <daubers> gmb: You can then transfer stuff onto the MBP from $another machine
[10:28] <gmb> popey: No, but I've got other plans for portable storage (i.e. I'll mostly edit at home anyway, but the RAID is going to be the canonical place for data to live).
[10:28] <popey> I'd still get an edge10 and GbE
[10:29] <gmb> popey: Maybe that's the way to go. After all, I've had this router since 2003 and that's the bottleneck on the network.
[10:29] <popey> i have cable modem -> router/wifi -> GbE switch, everything is plugged into that.
[10:29] <popey> just an el-cheapo blue netgear one
[10:30] <gmb> popey: Ah, yes, that would work, too.
[10:30] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/129220
[10:32] <gmb> Ta
[10:32]  * gord presses his face against the window again waiting for the postman to come give him his networking shinys
[10:32] <popey> i love my edge10 box
[10:33] <popey> not as well built as the drobo, but its lovely
[10:33] <daubers> gmb: Personally I'd (very biasedly) recommend http://gblabs.interads.co.uk/?q=node/13 but that's cause I built it
[10:33] <popey> also gmb you could get an esata pci express card for the mbp could you not?
[10:34] <popey> haha, overkill :)
[10:34] <daubers> popey: For his case, very much so :)
[10:34] <popey> is that a standard case?
[10:35] <popey> or custom
[10:35] <popey> also, get whoever makes that host to setup drupal correctly so you get nice urls
[10:35] <popey> ?q=node/13 is fugly
[10:35] <Phineas> hi guys
[10:35] <popey> hello
[10:35] <daubers> half and half, starts life as a standard one, then get's attacked with a cutting torch
[10:35] <popey> hah
[10:36] <daubers> popey: I know :( The web dev is on holiday so I can't get it fixed
[10:36] <Phineas> he he
[10:36] <Phineas> web dev?
[10:37] <daubers> web developer
[10:37] <gord> the difference between a good url and a bad one, i navigate launchpad entirely by fitting the right verbs and nouns into the right places in the url
[10:38] <gord> i navigate the rest of the web with google
[10:38] <Phineas> oh i see
[10:38] <daubers> googleh is teh w3b!!!!
[10:40] <Phineas> quite right comes in pretty handy sometimes
[10:42] <Phineas> daubers:  comes in handy good 'ol google
[10:42] <Phineas> !ping
[10:46] <gmb> daubers, popey, screen-x: Thanks for the suggestions. Of course, I basically want to have enough money (and need) to have Chase Jarvis's setup (http://bit.ly/8YyY2V), but I'm British, so I'll scale it down a bit.
[10:47] <popey> am I the only one who hates that effect of jump zoom
[10:50] <gmb> popey: Yeah, but they're limited to what they can do when they're shooting on DSLRs. Whip-pans don't work because of the rolling shutter, so it's either jump zooms or Star Wars-style wipes.
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> gmb: star wars-style wipes rock though
[10:50] <daubers> gmb: You using FCP?
[10:50] <gord> *always* star wars wipes. never use anything else.
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> gmb: well that or jump zooms
[10:51] <gord> no, i'm with popey, i hate them
[10:51] <gmb> daubers: I'm experimenting with both FCP and Premier Pro CS5; Haven't decided which I prefer.
[10:51] <daubers> gmb: (FCP is much nice on storage....)
[10:51] <gmb> daubers: So I hear :)
[10:52] <gmb> Also, it crashes a damn sight less often.
[10:52] <popey> I also dislike the guy in that video even though I have the volume muted :)
[10:52] <popey> irrational, I know
[10:52] <gmb> popey: Which guy?
[10:52] <gmb> There's more than one.
[10:52] <daubers> gmb: Yeah, there is that. I quite like the UI in FCP tbh, didn't really get on with CS5
[10:52] <popey> the main guy, not the big lad
[10:52] <popey> he is too attractive :)
[10:52] <popey> annoyingly so
[10:52] <gmb> popey: This has been noted in our house.
[10:53] <popey> :)
[11:01] <czajkowski> so the wrong time to look back at this screen
[11:02] <gmb> czajkowski: Why? Was it our A/V data nerdout or was it popey dissing Chase Jarvis for his looks?
[11:03] <czajkowski> the latter
[11:03] <popey> felt compelled to check him out huh?
[11:06] <shauno> I wish people wouldn't use shortners in contexts that don't require brevity.  saves me the let-down of discovering it's a site that's blocked at work :(
[11:07] <andylockran> howdy guys
[11:08] <andylockran> is it possible to install ubuntu to a separate partition using wubi ?
[11:08] <andylockran> i.e. if I partition 200GB for Windows, I'm going to leave 300GB left on the disk for ubuntu..
[11:08] <andylockran> would I be able to install that using wubi
[11:08] <BigRedS> I imagine it'd have trouble online resizing ntfs
[11:09] <BigRedS> oh, pre-partitioned
[11:09] <andylockran> just a wubi question rather than ubuntu one
[11:09] <andylockran> as I can install using ubuntu usb, but wondering if wubi was capable
[11:10] <popey> why use wubi?
[11:10] <andylockran> good point
[11:10] <andylockran> didn't have a CD drive this morning
[11:11] <andylockran> but just nicked one from next door
[11:11] <andylockran> therefore, the point is moot
[11:11] <popey> \o/ petty theft
[11:11] <andylockran> cheers popey
[11:11] <popey> np
[11:11] <AlanBell> shauno: use ubunt.eu \o/
[11:11] <andylockran> next door = colleagues PC
[11:11] <shauno> AlanBell: it was the destination (youtube) that's blocked, not the shortener :)
[11:12] <popey> \o/ bypassing proxies
[11:12] <gord> \o/ toast
[11:13] <daubers> \o/ coffee
[11:13] <AlanBell> \o/ bourbon biscuits to go with coffee
[11:14] <gord> what? no. why would you buy bourbons when you could get custard creams?
[11:14] <popey> oooo ooo!
[11:14] <popey> I know this!
[11:15] <popey> chocolate
[11:15] <popey> also.. custard digestives..
[11:15] <shauno> I try not to push my luck with proxies too much .. I dread the day they notice that I stay connected to 443 for 12 hours at a time
[11:16] <andylockran> hmm, I'd quite like a custard creme at the moment
[11:16] <andylockran> good call
[11:16] <andylockran> looking forward to the ubuntu monospace font
[11:16]  * popey listens to a bit of ELO
[11:16] <andylockran> spend over 60% of my time in the terminal, so that'll make a nice little difference to me
[11:17] <popey> chaps..
[11:17] <popey> what shall we talk about on uupc on monday
[11:17] <popey> we have no segments lined up
[11:17] <andylockran> me
[11:17] <popey> need two 15min segs
[11:17] <popey> thats 10 seconds sorted
[11:17] <popey> how about the other 29 mins and 50 seconds
[11:17] <matti> ;]
[11:17] <BigRedS> This super phoronix patch and how it's going to cure the common cold
[11:17] <BigRedS> ;)
[11:17] <popey> :)
[11:17] <popey> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/readers-choice-awards-2010  is a possibility
[11:18] <X3N> hum, just did a dist-upgrade and now all my notes are missing... :\
[11:19] <BigRedS> popey: how unity's not as bad as everyone thinks it is? I've not listened for a little bit though, that might've been covered already.
[11:19] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SegmentIdeasFromTheCommunityForUUPC is also available :)
[11:19] <AlanBell> talk about winter survival
[11:20] <popey> :)
[11:20] <shauno> I'm trying to avoid the unity topic until they've changed whatever 3d framework it's using
[11:21] <X3N> it's using compiz now
[11:22] <popey> barely
[11:23] <shauno> the version in 10.10 puts more load on my video card than civ4  (based purely on how obnoxious the fan is)
[11:23] <popey> ouch
[11:24] <shauno> I believe there's changes expected there, hence the 'wait and see' :)
[11:24] <danfish> popey: openrespect.org as a segment?
[11:27] <AlanBell> The christmas party is more news than a topic of conversation really
[11:27] <popey> ooo yes, will add to events
[11:28] <AlanBell> incidentally, only 8 people signed up so far, come on people: http://ubunt.eu/c2
[11:28]  * daubers added it to the official "Matts allowed to do this" calender last night
[11:32] <AlanBell> and bringing Mrs Daubers too
[11:32] <daubers> AlanBell: Indeed
[11:32] <BigRedS> Argh. It feels like Thunderbirds deliberately being obtuse with its 'sensible' defaults
[11:33]  * X3N feels he is going to be representing the youth of today again at The Hub
[11:33] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:33] <popey> incoming!
[11:33] <davmor2> BigRedS: no it's just out to annoy you is it working?
[11:34] <AlanBell> I am not doing so well at getting wifey along to events. "will it be all your geeky friends" "yes" "I will give it a miss" :(
[11:34] <popey> AlanBell: i find it helps if i mention other non-geek women will be there
[11:35] <AlanBell> yeah, tried that too
[11:35] <finelytuned> my wife still struggles with the fact that i talk to people on irc about a os........ dare i tell her about the pod cast??
[11:35]  * davmor2 decides to nice to czajkowski causes it's Friday :D
[11:35] <popey> :)
[11:35]  * popey collapses
[11:36] <shauno> I always had that problem trying to explain why I was laughing at lugradio
[11:36] <davmor2> popey: I'm feeling Good so I'm spreading the feel good feeling
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: neutral good, chaotic good or lawful good?
[11:37] <davmor2> popey: mind you it could be the new pain killers
[11:37] <daubers> AlanBell: The missus came to the RAT and quite enjoyed herself
[11:37] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Generally good :D
[11:37] <popey> AlanBell: does your missus work?
[11:37] <AlanBell> popey: a few days a month at a local school
[11:37] <popey> ah excellent!
[11:38] <popey> my wife works at a school
[11:38] <popey> common interest :)
[11:38] <AlanBell> so it is
[11:38] <AlanBell> I will try again, we are owed loads of babysitting so that isn't an issue
[11:41] <BigRedS> davmor2: it's doing its job wonderfully :/
[11:46]  * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice cold water over davmor2
[11:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: Ah can't ruin my day :P  /me gives czajkowski a hug
[11:49] <andylockran> what's the default virtualisation platform on ubuntu
[11:49] <andylockran> need to load up a virtual image of centos on my machine, and wondering what to use
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> kvm
[11:49] <andylockran> ok, thanks .
[11:50] <X3N> There isn't a default is also the answer
[11:50] <AlanBell> Virtualbox if you want accelerated graphics
[11:50] <AlanBell> !kvm
[11:50] <AlanBell> ^^ preferred
[11:50] <popey> ^^ AlanBell
[11:50] <danfish> virt-manager is a reasonable GUI for KVM
[11:51] <andylockran> looks like it needs hardware support
[11:51] <daubers> Your machine does need to support virtualisation at the HW level for kvm to work
[11:51] <andylockran> in teh cpu
[11:51] <andylockran> which unfortunately mine doesn#t
[11:51] <daubers> andylockran: Virtualbox
[11:51] <danfish> :(
[11:52] <danfish> not :( to virtualbox btw
[11:52] <andylockran> though vbox + oracle = future pain?
[11:52]  * daubers is currently installing an OSX server into VirtualBox
[11:52] <daubers> andylockran: You could use qemu if it still exists
[11:52] <andylockran> daubers: is breaking license conditions ?
[11:52] <daubers> !qemu
[11:52] <daubers> andylockran: It's on a mac!
[11:54]  * TheOpenSourcerer has OSX in VBox :-)
[11:54]  * AlanBell likes virt-manager +KVM for remote machines and virtualbox for local ones
[11:54]  * AlanBell now has a tuned piano
[11:55]  * DJones wonders if the piano player has also been tuned?
[11:56] <DJones> AlanBell: My wife is having lessons, we've got a piano downstairs which she practises on during the daytime, but evenings when I'm home, she uses a keyboard with a set of headphones (she says so I can't hear how bad she is)
[11:57] <jpds> Hmm, piano lessons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQOSB8TeAs
[11:57] <AlanBell> DJones: I was planning to get a keyboard with headphones but was feeling poor and got a piano on ebay for free (buyer collects)
[11:57] <AlanBell> apparently it is pre- 1935 with art-deco legs
[11:58] <DJones> AlanBell: Yeah, our keyboard was free from my Gran, and the piano came free from a friend who needed the space
[11:59] <danfish> AlanBell: nice - who's it made by?
[11:59] <czajkowski> well that's a bit bloody annoying few free events I want to go to in london and trying to register for them and the website is being a brat!
[12:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> They know who you are czajkowski :-D
[12:02] <danfish> AlanBell: if it's a Steinberg or Steinway from 1930's they can be v valuable
[12:03] <andylockran> Yeah, they're lovely.
[12:03] <andylockran> I have an old Zender of a great-great aunt.
[12:03] <andylockran> Nothing quite like an old piano.. heavy like you wouldn't believe though.
[12:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://blogs.techworld.com/on-the-frontline/2010/11/cisco-machismo-and-the-lan/index.htm
[12:04] <danfish> ooh ooh! Have a good old fashioned Cockney knee's up at the XMAS party :D
[12:05]  * TheOpenSourcerer 's wife's piano is a 1903 Bechstein parlour grand
[12:05] <DJones> danfish: Our church got rid of a steinway grand piano earlier this year for £2K, it was ruined by cold/damp etc, needed £25K of refurbishment and would be valued at £35K in good condition, we didn't have the £25K for refurb, so got rid before it rotted even more
[12:05] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: :(
[12:05] <hoover> hi folks
[12:06] <awilkins> Ok - evangelism opportunity here ( to a large gov dept! ).... our current software project has now breached the limit of the 32-bit JVM on windows for heap space ... so line manager has asked me to prepare some 64-bit Ubuntu LiveUSBs with the software installed to run on our nice beefy 4GB laptops ; I've already customized the iso and added a JDK so the software will run ; I've partitioned the thumb with a casper-rw
[12:06] <awilkins>  ; now I just need to know how to i) Set the keymap to uk on boot ii) automatically choose the new "persistent" menu config I stuck in the isolinux menu instead of the fancy try/install graphical prompt you get when you boot the maverick LiveCD.
[12:06] <danfish> DJones: bummer :(
[12:06] <DJones> danfish: Not so much, we didn't have anybody that could play it anyway :)
[12:07] <danfish> :)
[12:07] <danfish> awilkins: first things first - clone that line manager and send him my way
[12:07] <czajkowski> awilkins: nice
[12:08] <awilkins> danfish, Heheheh. I used to know how to do this too when the isolinux menu was all you got - the pretty gui is stumping me.
[12:09] <danfish> awilkins: does the usb disk creator in ubuntu do the persistent bit for you when you load in the iso?
[12:09] <AlanBell> danfish: it is a Rudohf Schuman which neither me, the piano tuner, or google have ever heard of
[12:09] <AlanBell> which either means it is a rare and valuable antique, or old and rubbish
[12:09] <danfish> hah
[12:10] <awilkins> danfish, the USB disk creator makes a loopback file ; I want a native ext3 partition (which I've done)
[12:10] <awilkins> danfish, The persistent bit works, just want to not have to manually do anything.
[12:10] <danfish> ah ok
[12:11] <awilkins> I don't even want to see the try/install prompt because some numpty will push "install" and trash his laptop
[12:11] <awilkins> (horrible full-disk encryption, lots of explaining to ICT services)
[12:11] <gord> load a translation that replaces install with "launch angry godzilla bee's"
[12:12] <danfish> understandable
[12:13] <danfish> putting a postit note on the screen where the "install" button appears probably isn't going to work either
[12:13] <gord> honestly the live stuff is a tricky thing that you need specialist knowledge on, best asking the guys that build the cd
[12:14] <awilkins> Do you know which channel they hang out in?
[12:15] <danfish> awilkins: I might be missing the point, but why not just do a full install onto a usb stick then clone the stick?
[12:15] <awilkins> danfish, this may also be an option.
[12:15] <awilkins> Probably runs faster.
[12:17] <gord> awilkins, i'm being told that #ubuntu-release is the best place to ask, its where the release team live, they set up the iso so they know whats going on
[12:18] <czajkowski> gord: you're rather useful to have in here ;)
[12:18] <awilkins> gord, Thanks for asking for me
[12:18] <andylockran> gord is a useful person to know.
[12:19] <andylockran> installing maverick on my desktop for the first time
[12:19] <andylockran> like the new installer
[12:19] <awilkins> I like the way it downloads updates in the background
[12:19] <andylockran> can't help but notice it's taking quite a bit longer than older versions though - or maybe that's just me
[12:20] <awilkins> andylockran, Are you running it from a CD or a USB?
[12:21]  * awilkins remotes the sensitive Windows drive from his laptop to prevent grub-related accidents to the encryption bootloader
[12:24] <andylockran> awilkins: CD
[12:24] <danfish> awilkins: they are installing that junk here next week :(
[12:25] <awilkins> danfish, Lucky you. The encrypted usb thumbs are rubbish too - all done in software. Cost extortionate money.
[12:25] <andylockran> got a mac keyboard, and bought a new mouse this morning
[12:26] <andylockran> logitech mx512 or something like that
[12:26] <andylockran> 518
[12:26] <awilkins> The only advantages are someone to blame and central key escrow.
[12:26] <danfish> awilkins: already got one of those. £120 I think for a 2gb drive
[12:27] <andylockran> just ordered an entropykey for more entropy on my virtual servers
[12:28] <awilkins> danfish, Whhhhhhhhaaaaattttttt. They must hit you with more of a markup
[12:28] <awilkins> danfish, Our internal purchase form says £65 for those, I've heard verbal quotes of £95
[12:28] <awilkins> My price ; 5 quid for a 2GB USB stick, nothing for Truecrypt.
[12:29] <andylockran> hmm, uptime on my maverick install has just hit 60 minutes :s
[12:29] <awilkins> I might charge oooh 15 quid if I wrote a few scripts to automate formatting them and copy the keyblocks to an escrow server.
[12:29] <danfish> awilkins: yup - our it guys seem to take the list price, double it and pass it on
[12:30] <danfish> awilkins: having someone to blame is the name of the game alright
[12:30] <awilkins> danfish, My assertion that they are rubbish is based on ; they consist of two partitions, one unencrypted that contains a small util that mounts the encrypted partition. One encrypted.
[12:31] <danfish> ...and they can't be read in linux
[12:31] <danfish> AFAIK
[12:31] <awilkins> They do not have hardware encryption like an Ironkey.
[12:31] <awilkins> You must install drivers for them because non-admin users cannot load drivers in Windows
[12:31] <awilkins> So they are equal to truecrypt in most respects
[12:31] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236580
[12:31] <popey> ooooooo
[12:32] <awilkins> perrty
[12:32] <awilkins> I think they also charge a per-seat license for the driver that stops you writing to unencrypted USB thumbs
[12:33] <andylockran> my install appears to have hung :(
[12:33] <danfish> ironkey should have got that contract tbh
[12:33] <awilkins> danfish, Seeing the prices of Ironkeys on Dabs, I'm not sure they make enough margin to proffer a really effective bribe.
[12:34] <danfish> awilkins: so you have to pay to have functionally removed from your PC. Craziness
[12:34] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236579
[12:34] <popey> with no windows 7
[12:35] <awilkins> popey, Wow, a price differential that actually reflects the price of an OEM windows license
[12:35] <danfish> popey: that's more tempting
[12:35] <awilkins> "Linpus linux"
[12:35] <awilkins> Sounds like an infection
[12:35] <awilkins> "Sorry, can't come into work today, I'm oozing linpus
[12:36] <andylockran> nope, unhung now... gd gd
[12:36] <andylockran> weird.
[12:36] <andylockran> no action for circa 20 mins
[12:36] <danfish> awilkins: from where ? :D
[12:37] <awilkins> Mine just crashed because of a disk failure... given it's a flash drive, that does not full me with confidence
[12:37] <awilkins> El-cheapo 8GB flash drives are cheap for a reason, it seems
[12:38] <finelytuned> popey: to the unknowing public who might look at them 2 pages, they could think that they are getting so much more with the windows one, due the the amount of stuff listed under software
[12:38] <popey> they get a bigger disk!
[12:39] <awilkins> finelytuned, This is part of what produces a higher return rate for Linux machines - shame that MS like to yell about what is effectively uninformed buyers
[12:39] <awilkins> I suppose Windows needs a bigger disk
[12:40] <awilkins> I find a 60GB partition barely adequate for Vista and up
[12:40] <directhex> awilkins: windows 7 is about 10 gig smaller than vista
[12:41] <awilkins> directhex, Or does it just report disk consumption better - I know a lot of the apparent consumption is actually hardlinked files
[12:41] <popey> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/ubuntu-running-on-galaxy-tab/
[12:41] <directhex> awilkins: i think it's actually smaller. vista carries LOADS of duplicate libraries with slightly different versions, 7 has a clever way to make one lib with multiple overlays
[12:41] <awilkins> Shiny. Shame the Tab is so expensive
[12:42] <awilkins> directhex, I had the RC version until they canned it
[12:42] <awilkins> directhex, I liked it better than Vista - but not enough to pay for 7
[12:43] <directhex> i thought it was worth £40
[12:44] <awilkins> directhex, Plus all the hassle of reinstalling it, a lot of your games, etc. I only really use it for games now.
[12:44] <awilkins> Steam games are fine but a lot of them whine and moan when their DRM components disappear
[12:45] <awilkins> Excellent, my parcel is here
[12:45] <awilkins> Including complete Farscape box set.. there goes my productivity for a month or three
[12:47] <danfish> including the peacekeeper wars?
[12:51] <awilkins> Indeed
[12:52] <danfish> sweet
[12:52] <awilkins> Plus ; displayport / VGA adapter. No longer will my Linux system at work be relegated to a mere 1 monitors.
[12:53] <awilkins> And ; fast kettle. Because waiting for tea is wrong.
[12:58] <finelytuned> this is a ramdom question but does anyone know how many schools run open source software?
[12:59] <popey> nope
[12:59] <popey> how can anyone possibly know
[12:59] <popey> well, other than asking them all :)
[13:00] <finelytuned> like i said totally random
[13:04] <DJones> This is not on, BBC headline "Gentoo penguin born in Australia", Never mind that, where's the Ubuntu penguin born in South Africa http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11796080?
[13:05] <directhex> http://i.imgur.com/iq6Fu.jpg
[13:05] <bigcalm> popey: I blame you for getting me interested in minecraft. I'm still in bed, playing on my laptop
[13:06] <popey> :)
[13:06] <DJones> directhex: My parents have just come bax from Oz, they've got an even better picture than that, looks like its the same animal, just even more gross
[13:07] <DJones> s/bax/back
[13:11] <gord> geez
[13:11]  * popey tickles gord
[13:12] <gord> royal mail tracking has three states, "we do not have your item" "our item is somewhere in our network" "we delivered your item"
[13:13] <screen-x> gord: so your powerline ethernet adapters are still in state 2?
[13:13] <gord> yes
[13:13] <screen-x> :(
[13:13] <gord> last updated three days ago, it doesn't take three days to go from wales to crewe
[13:14] <czajkowski> wow
[13:14] <czajkowski> gord: perhaps they opened the package saw how much fun it was and decided to keep it
[13:14] <awilkins> I think this USB drive is a pile of rubbish.
[13:15]  * screen-x is also attempting to leave wales
[13:15] <awilkins> 'cause now installs are failing because perl is broken.
[13:15] <evilchristel> aww why would you want to leave wales?
[13:15] <czajkowski> but the welsh are nice
[13:15] <czajkowski> well the accent more than anything really
[13:15] <czajkowski> and  RUGBY :D
[13:15] <gord> nevermind, i now have a mince pie and Hey Eugine by Pink Martini playing, everything is well again
[13:15] <awilkins> Knew a girl from North Wales at med school. Could only understand her when we were both drunk.
[13:16] <screen-x> awilkins: haha
[13:16] <czajkowski> awilkins: lol
[13:16] <evilchristel> haha
[13:16] <screen-x> I do know plenty of nice welsh people, I'm just having issues with a few troublesome ones :(
[13:16] <czajkowski> I just nod and smile it's a lovely accent
[13:17] <czajkowski> evilchristel: hello darling
[13:17] <screen-x> having said that, the trouble is in wales, that doesn't necessairly mean the trouble makers are welsh..
[13:17] <gord> never had any trouble with welsh accents myself, its nice :)
[13:28] <kazade> funniest picture ever: http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbfzyy2oc61qzlfumo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1290256133&Signature=W7ToDAICiEYXDm4l%2BVPg08FVxzc%3D
[13:29] <kazade> sorry, had to share that :)
[13:29] <BigRedS> kazade: That's awesome!
[13:30] <evilchristel> heya czajkowski me love! a letter arrived for you!
[13:31] <czajkowski> ohh
[13:31] <czajkowski> evilchristel: can you open it and let me know what it is please.
[13:31] <czajkowski> can't be a bill :)
[13:32] <andylockran> wahey - maverick installed
[13:36] <andylockran> internet connection here is awful mind
[13:40] <shauno> sometimes I swear the ladies in the canteen are trying to fatten me up
[13:40] <jpds> shauno: Yes, they're trying to feed you.
[13:41] <andylockran> any ideas
[13:41] <andylockran> will just stop during download
[13:41] <andylockran> if I cancel and restart then it'll be fine
[13:41] <kazade> anyone know of a program that can shove (L)GPL headers into a directory full of source files?
[13:41] <popey> cp
[13:41] <andylockran> kazade: sed ?
[13:41] <BigRedS> sed?
[13:41] <kazade> heh
[13:42] <kazade> well, ok that would do it
[13:42] <daubers> What they sed
[13:42] <popey> That's what she sed.
[13:42]  * kazade doesn't really know how to use sed
[13:42]  * daubers gets his coat
[13:42] <jpds> kazade: cat lgpl-template.txt sauce.cpp > result.cpp
[13:42]  * AlanBell tickles czajkowski
[13:43] <kazade> jpds, oh cool
[13:43] <BigRedS> for i in `ls`; do cat boilerplate $i > tmp ; mv tmp $i; done
[13:43] <BigRedS> perhaps with the semicolons in different placesi
[13:44] <kazade> thx BigRedS I'll try taht
[13:44] <kazade> *that
[13:49] <kazade> BigRedS, worked a charm!
[13:51] <czajkowski> no tickles
[13:51] <BigRedS> Wow. I got bash right first time! :)
[13:52] <kazade> BigRedS, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kazade/platformation/trunk/revision/28
[13:54] <BigRedS> kazade: I expect to see my name under 'contributors' ;)
[13:54] <kazade> indeed ;)
[13:58] <andylockran> evolution on maverick is just unusable.
[14:00] <gord> it is?
[14:00] <gord> seems fine here
[14:00] <gord> are  you using imap+? if your not using imap+ you should be using it
[14:01] <andylockran> I'm using imap
[14:02] <andylockran> wil l switch to imap+
[14:02] <andylockran> what's the difference?
[14:03] <daubers> awesumsauce
[14:03] <daubers> imap+ is threaded (I believe... certainly acts that way)
[14:03]  * BigRedS still wants an imap client that lets him instruct it to only download the latest X messages
[14:04] <BigRedS> Well, I have one. But it's quite clunky. More imap clients should honour imap
[14:08] <popey> does gmail support imap+ ?
[14:10] <andylockran> cheers for that tip Gord - really improved it! :)
[14:16] <davmor2> popey: try it :D
[14:17] <shauno> I didn't think imap+ was something that needed to be specifically supported.  just a better rewrite of the imap module for evo, but they haven't expired the old one (yet) because it's tried & trusted
[14:19] <popey> My bosses wife is pregnant with their 9th child.
[14:19] <awilkins> kazade, Extra tip - sponge
[14:19] <awilkins> kazade, cat license.txt source.cpp | sponge source.cpp
[14:19] <finelytuned> wow 9 children........ i have 3 they keep me busy all the time lol
[14:19] <daubers> popey: 9????
[14:20] <popey> they want 13
[14:20] <daubers> 13???
[14:20] <popey> yup
[14:20] <popey> well.. _she_ wants 13
[14:20] <daubers> Do they want to generate some kind of family choir in the hills of austria?
[14:20] <czajkowski> what
[14:20] <popey> :)
[14:20] <czajkowski> sweet jebus mary and holy saint jack daniels
[14:20] <danfish> 13 - rugby league team
[14:20] <finelytuned> is it for a family football team or something?
[14:20] <shauno> cztab .. well there's names for half of them
[14:21] <czajkowski> popey: were any of them twins or anything
[14:21] <popey> nope
[14:21] <daubers> shauno: Hugh, Pew, Barney, McGrew, Cuthburt, Dibble and Grub?
[14:21] <shauno> someone really should take mercy on them and buy them a TV
[14:25] <kazade> awilkins, ah cool thanks
[14:25] <kazade> awilkins, so no need for the tmp file with sponge I assume?
[14:30] <awilkins> kazade, Nope, I did exactly the same top-license-shoving exercise with it a few days ago
[14:36] <andylockran> yo.
[14:36] <andylockran> what's the view called where all the windows get tiled next to each other
[14:36] <andylockran> and how can I get that setup?
[14:37] <andylockran> hostname
[14:37] <andylockran> dmesg
[14:37] <andylockran> oops
[14:41] <awilkins> andylockran, try win-E
[14:42] <andylockran> er.. that's not so good with 16 virtual desktops :p
[14:42] <awilkins> Heh, I put them in more than one row and it improves
[14:42] <andylockran> but yeah - thanks :)
[14:45] <daubers> hmmm... just found all the tapes with oggcamp stuff on them
[14:45]  * daubers really wants a tapeless camera
[14:50] <evilchristel> czajkowski: its a questionnaire from your bank wanting your feedback on your experience of opening an account with them!
[14:50] <evilchristel> (how peculiar, my bank never sends me questionnaires like that) :(
[14:52] <czajkowski> evilchristel: oh good I can tell them they told me I wasn  set up for online banking and I wasn't which was rather confusing
[14:52] <czajkowski> evilchristel: thank you
[14:53] <evilchristel> <3
[15:02] <ikonia> evilchristel: 2 days on the trot.....what a treat
[15:06] <lowrr> hi
[15:06] <lowrr> for mail/web servers  does ubuntu auto configure it for you
[15:06] <lowrr> or it needsto be done like in fedora and stuff
[15:06] <popey> depends what config you want :)
[15:07] <screen-x> lowrr: some config is done through the package manager, some will have to be done with an editor.
[15:07] <lowrr> but usually is it all set
[15:08] <screen-x> lowrr: for example, when apt installs apache it is all ready, but you'll have to create config files if you want virtual hosts.
[15:10] <lowrr> ic
[15:10] <screen-x> 555?
[15:14] <screen-x> screen-x: http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[15:15] <Azelphur> Anyone on Ubuntu care to click "I have this problem too." https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/765355 ?
[15:16] <Azelphur> It really makes Firefox unusable, it's been a problem for ages too -.-
[15:18] <BigRedS> Azelphur: that's also a long-standing brokenness on tbird
[15:18] <Azelphur> god alone knows why they don't fix it :(
[15:19] <Azelphur> BigRedS: evolution has it really bad too
[15:19] <Azelphur> chrome works fine \o/
[15:19] <diplo> Submitted :)
[15:19] <BigRedS> I'd imagine it's only an issue on Ubuntu's dark themes - I think everybody else still uses light coloured themes
[15:19] <Azelphur> indeed :p
[15:19] <BigRedS> but I don't want FF to stop using the GTK theme, I want it to use the whole of it
[15:19] <davmor2> Azelphur: doesn't effect me
[15:19] <BigRedS> both background *and* foreground
[15:20] <Azelphur> davmor2: are you using a dark theme?
[15:20] <Azelphur> davmor2: by dark I mean black background white text
[15:20] <davmor2> yeap
[15:20] <Azelphur> what theme?
[15:20] <davmor2> Azelphur: the default theme
[15:20] <Azelphur> that's not a dark theme
[15:21] <davmor2> Azelphur: How's it not dark?
[15:21] <Azelphur> ambiance is light
[15:21] <Azelphur> uhh, because it's ~80% white?
[15:22] <Azelphur> and the text is black?
[15:22] <davmor2> Azelphur: then you'll need to give an example
[15:22] <Azelphur> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Divinorum?content=65533 is dark
[15:23] <Azelphur> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Slickness+Black?content=73210 also dark :p
[15:23] <davmor2> Azelphur: Try with Epiphany if that has the same issue it's a fault in GTK and not firefox
[15:24] <Azelphur> davmor2: chrome doesn't suffer from it, trying epiphany now
[15:26] <Azelphur> davmor2: yea epiphany suffers but differently
[15:26] <davmor2> Azelphur: then it is likely to be GTK and not FF that is at fault
[15:27] <Azelphur> even though chrome doesn't have the problem?
[15:27] <evilchristel> ikonia: i just cant keep away
[15:29] <Azelphur> davmor2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/November%202010/2010-11-19-152908_1266x1143_scrot.png
[15:29] <davmor2> Azelphur: Epiphany is as close to gtk as you can get.  all the other browsers use aspects and modify things to suit their browsers so are 3-4 + layers away from gtk so it will either magnify a fault or get rid of it depending on how they twist it.
[15:29] <gord> Midori is just gtk + webkit like ephinany too i think
[15:31] <davmor2> Azelphur: so what you'll find is that Chrome is blatantly ignoring the gtk element for everything other than the title bar iirc
[15:32] <Azelphur> davmor2: it should do, otherwise you end up with a completely broken experience as you can see
[15:32] <Azelphur> gord: midori suffers from the problem too :(
[15:33] <davmor2> Azelphur: again the issue is with gtk,  if gtk fix the issue their end it fixes it for user across the board
[15:33] <Azelphur> davmor2: it's not, the problem is that gtk applies the theme to the page, and then the css in the page has it's own style too
[15:33] <Azelphur> at least I think
[15:34] <gord> Azelphur, run firefox in wine ;)
[15:34] <Azelphur> haha
[15:36] <davmor2> Azelphur: Yes so if GTK fix things their end it won't effect the browsers anymore,  there is a whole heap of these minor issues that annoy the living daylights out of users,  I'm hoping that GTK+3 will put pay to some if not all (It would be nice)
[15:37] <Azelphur> I guess
[16:02] <DJones> Ooh, UbuntuOne for Windows beta testing
[16:03] <popey> .net 4 :S
[16:05] <DJones> It'll be interesting to see how it compares with dropbox once it gets a final release
[16:07]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2
[16:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: Why what did I do?
[16:08] <popey> DJones: "not as good" is my generaly opinion
[16:09] <gord> .net seems like an acceptable tech if your on windows
[16:09] <DJones> popey: That wouldn't surprise me with dropbox having a significant head start, but hopefully there'll be a good attempt at it anyway
[16:10] <gord> windows does install .net for you now right? you don't have to go off to some website to download it
[16:10] <Phineas> hi guys
[16:10] <popey> *shrug*
[16:10] <danfish> gord: w7 yes, xp no
[16:10] <Phineas> have i spelt my nick right
[16:11] <DJones> Phineas: Nope, thats not how you spell "nickname" :)
[16:11] <gord> i don't have a reason to use ubuntu one on windows, so i guess this is the first beta of ubuntu one that i won't take part in :(
[16:11] <Phineas> DJones,  i mean my nickname , Phineas
[16:12] <shauno> no mac client?
[16:12] <gord> not yet
[16:13] <Phineas> have i spelt my nickname right as in my nickname Phineas
[16:13]  * AlanBell just made a 29GB zip file from 140,000 files totalling 38GB
[16:13] <AlanBell> and nothing broke
[16:13] <gord> AlanBell, okay now lmza it!
[16:14] <AlanBell> I was going to encrypt it with rot13
[16:14] <popey> or lzma
[16:14]  * Phineas made one totalling about 56GB
[16:14] <gord> lamaz! whatever :P
[16:15] <Phineas> what its true
[16:16] <Phineas> brb
[16:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] LibreOffice: Document Foundation Steering Committee Public Phone Conference 20-Nov-2010 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-document-foundation-steering-committee-public-phone-conference-20-nov-2010
[16:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooooh ZBosons observed for the first time at the LHC: https://twitter.com/#!/CERN/statuses/5653178590699521
[16:20] <Phineas> did my away message work
[16:21] <AlanBell> and issyl0 gets applauded at European level https://twitter.com/#!/NeelieKroesEU/status/5651141715042304
[16:22] <Phineas> did my away message work
[16:22] <Phineas> ?
[16:22] <AlanBell> !away
[16:22] <issyl0> AlanBell: I know, I just saw that! :O
[16:22] <popey> test your away messages elsewhere Phineas
[16:22] <davmor2> Phineas: I don't know you're not away
[16:22] <AlanBell> Phineas: didn't see anything
[16:23] <AlanBell> issyl0: told a customer about govspark last week
[16:23] <issyl0> AlanBell: oh?
[16:23] <Phineas> popey,  sorry if my away message is 'noisy'
[16:24] <popey> Phineas: i havent seen any away message from you at all, lets keep it that way
[16:24] <czajkowski> popey: AlanBell http://ossg.bcs.org/2010/09/30/open-source-as-open-innovation-creating-and-capturing-value-in-value-networks-london-021210/
[16:24] <Phineas> popey, :)
[16:24] <popey> thanks czajkowski
[16:24]  * popey is going out in london that evening
[16:24] <czajkowski> ahh
[16:25] <czajkowski> said I'd go it's free event and looks interesting
[16:25] <Phineas> sounds intresting
[16:27]  * AlanBell checks diary
[16:28] <Phineas> aparently there are no guidelines in this channel
[16:28] <popey> feel free to test that theory Phineas
[16:28] <czajkowski> Phineas: what kind of guidelines?
[16:29] <davmor2> Phineas: yes there are the same as every other channel related to Ubuntu
[16:29] <DJones> !guidelines
[16:29] <Phineas> oh i see
[16:31] <gord> huh, i calculated that its gonna take 13 days of constant uploading at my max speed before my ubuntu one music will finish =\
[16:31]  * gord cherry picks instead
[16:32] <popey> gord: go somewhere with free wifi?
[16:32] <gord> i don't actually know anywhere here that has free wifi, everything is pay for and slooooowww
[16:32] <AlanBell> gord: Millbank!
[16:33] <AlanBell> although that isn't *here* for most values of here
[16:33] <gord> maybe i could just take a usb drive and give it to the folks at millbank and tell them "this is what i want on ubuntu one, its quicker than syncing"
[16:33] <DJones> gord: How much have you got to upload?
[16:33] <davmor2> gord coffee shop
[16:33] <gord> 8gb, i have slow internet
[16:35] <DJones> heh, that could take a while even with faster broadband
[16:36] <gord> honestly cherry picking makes sense.like the rest of humanity 70% of my music collection is stuff i stopped listening to years ago
[16:36] <davmor2> DJones: 8gb is about 40 minutes
[16:38] <gord> just copying 500mb over wifi is gonna take ten minutes :(
[16:39] <gord> it is not uncommon for people to have better internet connections than i do wifi
[16:39] <danfish> where are the actual servers that serve ubuntu one? Just curious
[16:40] <gord> I imagine its a cloud tech that uses wherever is closet to you
[16:40] <gord> closest*
[16:40] <danfish> ok
[16:41] <popey> gord: could you move y'know, closer to the access point?
[16:41]  * gord points its *there*
[16:41]  * popey hands gord a cable
[16:42] <gord> right, i could of just ran some cable for a few minutes then got rid of it again, stop making me look stoopid :P
[16:42] <Phineas> gord,  makes me look smart
[16:44] <awilkins> I find that sometimes, uploads to DropBox happen faster than physically possible - I figure this is because someone already uploaded a file with the same SHA-1 hash
[16:45] <awilkins> I reckon that Ubuntu One could probably use the same thing with the music files
[16:45] <gord> isn't that... dangerous?
[16:45] <awilkins> If it does, you could upload your music collection in seconds
[16:45] <awilkins> Why is it dangerous?
[16:46] <andylockran> guys, any recommendations for a current affairs podcast
[16:46] <gord> its not completely infeasible that two files can share the same hash
[16:46] <awilkins> gord, True, but what about the same hash and same byte count? Or same MD5 and SHA-1?
[16:46] <popey> yup, they do that
[16:46] <awilkins> I'm assuming, like rsync, it does a cheap check backed up by a sure check
[16:48] <gord> makes sense, until sha1 is broken, but then we all have bigger problems ;)
[16:49] <daubers> sha1's been broken hasn't it? Isn't there someone who can break a sha1 in 15minutes or seomsuch?
[16:49] <awilkins> Varies depending on your meaning of "broken"
[16:49] <daubers> Well, easily brute forced in a reasonable time frame
[16:50] <popey> hmm, can you edit a shell script whilst its running?
[16:50] <awilkins> Broken as in "given an arbitrary sense document, find another with the same SHA-1" - pull the other one.
[16:50] <popey> and expect the line you change to be used? like in a dos batch file?
[16:50] <danfish> awilkins: the *real* reason dropbox is so fast is because they copy all your data when you first install it and then put a '.' in front of the file/folder name to hide it
[16:50] <popey> or does the file get fully read at start?
[16:51] <gord> popey, not unless the file is re-read, ie its been called again by another shell script or cron
[16:51] <popey> bum
[16:51] <gord> re-reading all the time would make it slooow
[16:51] <popey> see dos batch files :)
[16:51] <daubers> awilkins: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/18/amazon_cloud_sha_password_hack/
[16:52] <Phineas> popey,  bum?
[16:52] <popey> nvm
[16:53] <gord> daubers, given enough monkeys you can crack anything relatively quickly
[16:53] <gord> (see what i did there?)
[16:54] <awilkins> daubers, Yes, but he was "cracking"  hashes of unsalted 6 char passwords.
[16:54] <daubers> gord: If I had an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters, I could make a killing in the fertilizer business
[16:54] <daubers> awilkins: Didn't really read it that carefully..... obviously misunderstood what I did read
[16:54] <gord> basically, you can always defend against brute force attacks easily when doing online communication, to the point where it can be ignored
[16:54] <awilkins> Anyone who uses an unsalted 6 char password hash in their implementation should not be writing security systems
[16:57] <awilkins> What the story is is really "man demonstrates that renting enough computers to calculate a rainbow table really fast is possible"
[17:00]  * awilkins now has a ludicrous amount of storage because he bought  a new drive because he thought the old one had failed when it was the power electronics in his external caddy
[17:01] <awilkins> What to do with 3.5TB of disk...
[17:01] <directhex> awilkins: you can now do GPU-powered cloud machines, not just regular VMs. someone used a GPU-powered password cracker on a cloud box, for very little money, storming through all passwords up to X characters long
[17:02] <awilkins> directhex, Mmmm, CUDA. Tasty.
[17:04] <gord> still have yet to find a real use for cuda outside the specialist market. would love to use it for something day to day
[17:04] <popey> ffmpeg
[17:04] <popey> (I would use it if it supported ffmpeg)
[17:05] <popey> or vice versa
[17:05] <Phineas> ff hujamaflip
[17:08] <Phineas> oh that converter thing FFMPEG
[17:11] <directhex> omg it's gohometime
[17:11] <Phineas> is it?
[17:12] <awilkins> Here in the UK, yes.  I have an MCP55
[17:14] <awilkins> Is that bad?
[17:15] <gord> nvidia do esata?
[17:15] <gord> crazy world we live in
[17:15] <awilkins> Well, it's not esata as such
[17:15] <awilkins> It's an eSata blanking plate attached to my internal SATA controller
[17:15] <awilkins> Which is the integrated nVidia one
[17:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Javascript Q: How to I get a result set, returned to a callback function, back to the original function that called the callback?
[17:16] <awilkins> I had problems writing large files to it last month but figure it was down to the same thing that brought the drive to a halt this month - failing power electronics
[17:16] <awilkins> I shall have another go at writing large files and see if I get the same errors
[17:22] <awilkins> popey, Aaand, there you go
[17:22] <awilkins> popey, Yes, same thing. Lots of ata3.00: failed command: WRITE FPDMA QUEUED
[17:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Funny, but a pretty big whack, whack ooops at the same time: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Free-ClamWin-virus-scanner-moves-most-of-Windows-into-quarantine-1139430.html
[17:24] <awilkins> People will be making a joke of that for aaaages - "ClamWin thought Windows was a virus! Chortle chortle, etc"
[17:24] <shauno> TheOpenSourcerer: closed: notabug
[17:30] <Phineas> bye
[17:30] <Phineas> bye all
[17:41] <awilkins> popey, I think your assesment is correct, the nVidia SATA controller can't cope with eSata drives now, can it.
[17:42] <awilkins> A good job these have USB ports too
[17:43]  * awilkins crawls under his desk to rewire stuff
[17:43]  * awilkins is mumbling, Yosemite Sam style
[17:44] <danfish> I've an esata port on my samsung nvidia lappy. Seems to work ok so far.
[17:45] <Ng> esatap!
[17:45] <Ng> awesome idea, only saw it today, want it!
[17:46] <jpds> I keep readind "esatap" in Spanish.
[17:46] <jpds> Let's just invent esata-ng.
[17:46]  * Ng does a :( at jpds
[17:46] <Ng> literally
[17:47] <jpds> Ng: I saw that!
[17:47] <Ng> good!
[17:47]  * popey tickles Ng
[17:47] <Ng> !
[17:47] <jpds> popey: Not literally though.
[17:47] <popey> No, _actually_
[17:47] <popey> bah
[17:47]  * popey farts on apple
[17:47]  * awilkins removes a hard drive from some gravy
[17:48] <awilkins> Happily, not enough gravy to enter any orifices
[17:48] <popey> mmmm gravy
[17:48] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[17:48]  * TheOpenSourcerer is shocked to hear popey scorn the Apple.
[17:48] <Ng> TheOpenSourcerer: it's ok, I've alerted Cupertino, the turtleneck ninjas are on their way
[17:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bangers and Mash for Dinner here :-) With Gravy no doubt.
[17:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone??? "Javascript Q: How to I get a result, that is returned to a callback function, back to the original function that called the callback?"
[17:50] <awilkins> I find it discomforting that the "safely remove drive" option in Ubuntu so often throws an error
[17:50] <awilkins> "Safely" and "Bad stuff happened" are incongruous
[17:51] <jpds> awilkins: Was the drive in gravy at any point in its life?
[17:52] <awilkins> jpds, Very few of the drives I've seen that option throw an error with were ever in gravy
[17:52] <awilkins> Of course, the best ones come in a sealed ziplok bag of the gravy from Mr Brains Faggots.
[17:53]  * awilkins now has 3.5 TB of storage hooked up to his USB ports
[17:53] <awilkins> Bwahahaha, etc
[17:55] <danfish> popey: talking of food, how's the recipe section on the website going?
[17:56]  * BigRedS pictures a vast auditorium with a single door leading into/out of it
[17:56] <popey> heh
[17:56] <AlanBell> danfish: ooh, contributions please
[17:56] <AlanBell> Circle of Food
[17:56] <danfish> np - is a logon needed?
[17:57]  * AlanBell will create a danfish logon
[17:57] <danfish> yeah!
[17:57] <danfish> I'll put tonight's experimental chorizo sausage toad in the hole recipe on :)
[17:58] <AlanBell> I think we should have an ubuntuish theme to the recipes
[17:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: http://www.opensourcefood.com/people/opensourcerer/recipes/sunday-roast-toad-in-the-hole-and-roast-potatoes
[17:58] <AlanBell> so something including a circle of friends
[17:58] <popey> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/category/recipes/  AHEM!
[17:58] <AlanBell> or the colour #dd4814
[17:58] <jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: Should of been opensaucefood.com.
[17:59] <danfish> popey: that can be desert 2nite
[17:59] <AlanBell> that is an awesome recipe popey
[18:00] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: nice. The chorizo may add a certain 'je ne sais quoi'
[18:00] <danfish> or it'll probably just bollocks up a nice dish
[18:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed danfish, indeed.
[18:01] <AlanBell> didn't know chorizo was made of them
[18:01] <awilkins> I never know how to partition external drives.
[18:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Perhaps a big knokwurst would be better?
[18:01] <awilkins> As long as it's not the one you store the Fallen Madonna in
[18:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> with ze big ...
[18:01] <danfish> AlanBell: only the best spanish bollocks of course ;)
[18:02] <awilkins> ... dumpling
[18:02] <awilkins> s
[18:03] <danfish> german market coming to town this year. Sausage stands everywhere normally.
[18:03] <awilkins> There's one in Leeds too
[18:05]  * AlanBell may try to make the popey cake in an oggcamp mug for photographing
[18:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Put the camera in the microwave for the best images :-D
[18:06] <awilkins> I have a nice Ubuntu mug it might go nicely in
[18:06] <Mez> damnit - memory is failing me.
[18:06] <Mez> What's that famous geek toy/gift/etc site?
[18:07] <AlanBell> thinkgeek
[18:07] <awilkins> thinkgeek.com?
[18:07] <Mez> thats it :D
[18:07] <BigRedS> there's a uk one, too. firebox?
[18:07]  * Mez had a brain fart
[18:07] <BigRedS> something like that
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> iwantoneofthose.com?
[18:07] <Mez> BigRedS: firebox is my company's main competitor.
[18:07] <awilkins> Replica batmobile : £120,000
[18:07] <awilkins> A biiiit much
[18:08] <Mez> BigRedS: and they don't do the cool stuff that thinkgeek do (I'm remembering the mana potions)
[18:08] <AlanBell> and unicorn meat
[18:08] <Mez> AlanBell: yeah - unicorn meat got me dumped :)
[18:08] <AlanBell> http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/wacky-edibles/e5a7/
[18:09] <Mez> AlanBell: when you give unicorn meat as a present to your vegan, animal loving girlfriend... it doesn't go well.
[18:09] <Mez> "But you like Unicorns, right - and it's not like they're real"
[18:09] <Mez> :)
[18:09] <Mez> (yes, I was purposefully trying to get dumped)
[18:11] <Mez> aw what?
[18:11] <Mez> They no longer ship caffeine outside of US ? :(
[18:11] <AlanBell> http://www.thinkgeek.com/blog/2010/06/officially-our-bestever-cease.html
[18:11] <danfish> AlanBell: login received :)
[18:12] <Mez> AlanBell: old.
[18:13] <AlanBell> I am
[18:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> That is a somewhat relative statement AlanBell
[18:13] <awilkins> The stuffed dismembered unicorn in the can is genius
[18:14] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: true, I am not *that* old :)
[18:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks. :-(
[18:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Time for bangers, mash then Pub!
[18:33] <docsy> anyone about had issues with flash since updating recently (updates within 10.10 x64bit)
[18:54] <finelytuned> ok gotta do dinner bbl o/
[19:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Libreoffice Beta-3 now available on Debian experimental repositories. - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-beta-3-now-available-debian-experimental-repositories
[20:05] <danfish> listening to the radio on the way home Ireland are trying to ease the fiscal problems by sending out free cheese. czajkowski - you're away for a week the the place falls apart ;)
[20:06] <czajkowski> ugh don't get me started
[20:07] <jpds> It's too late for that..
[20:09] <danfish> where did they get the money to buy all that cheese?
[20:09] <Azelphur> danfish: I feel the need to post http://www.splicd.com/2YEfXE2tzyg/46/49
[20:09] <danfish> heh
[20:09] <Azelphur> drunk on cheese \o/
[20:11] <DJones> danfish: Makes you appreciate the value, we (UK etc) lends Ireland £xB, they lend us czajkowski, I would say thats money well spent
[20:12] <DJones> Worth every penny/cent
[20:12] <danfish> DJones: davmor2 may well disagree.
[20:13] <KrimZon> how do i set up my wireless card on ubuntu server?
[20:14] <KrimZon> i think the drivers ought to be working but it doesn't seem to want to connect
[20:14] <DJones> danfish: Thats just bloody mindedness :)
[20:14] <danfish> DJones: true. Mind you he's been nice recently
[20:15] <danfish> KrimZon: what wireless card? also using WPA etc?
[20:15] <KrimZon> danfish: asus pci-g31, wpa-psk
[20:15] <KrimZon> wpa2 rather
[20:16] <KrimZon> i can iwlist scan and get stuff
[20:16] <KrimZon> just can't yet ping anything
[20:16] <KrimZon> i want to get it bridged with the ethernet eventually
[20:17] <danfish> KrimZon: my advice would be to check out wicd-ncurses
[20:17] <KrimZon> what's that?
[20:17] <danfish> !info wicd-ncurses
[20:17] <danfish> nuts
[20:17] <KrimZon> oh, i'm using lucid still
[20:18] <danfish> wicd is an alternative network manager
[20:18] <danfish> !info wicd-curses
[20:18] <danfish> that's better
[20:19] <KrimZon> will it support bridging?
[20:19] <KrimZon> and will it work on a server with nobody logged in?
[20:20] <danfish> re bridging - not sure
[20:20] <danfish> it does work with no-one logged in
[20:21] <danfish> mind you, I've never had great success with getting wireless working on a headless server, but it's been a while since I last tried
[20:32] <KrimZon> hmm, can't get wicd-curses to ask for the passphrase
[20:33] <KrimZon> ah, wicd doesn't support vpn either, which i need
[20:35] <danfish> Did you set the password for the individual network using the right arrow and enable encryption?
[20:56] <danfish> ooh - trailer for xmas dr who on children in need. nice
[21:10] <AlanBell> who brought these last year? http://picasaweb.google.com/alanbelltolc/UbuntuUK#5418429663045996818
[21:11] <finelytuned> evenong all
[21:12] <finelytuned> evening even :)
[21:14] <danfish> AlanBell: the recipe/technique needs to be on the website
[21:15] <AlanBell> it does :)
[21:16] <AlanBell> I think the recipe is: purchase mince pices, add sugar and cinamon using a circle of friends cut from paper as a mask
[21:16] <danfish> chorizo toad in hole got 9/10 from the wife - will post recipe 2moro
[21:17] <KrimZon> danfish: i couldn't see any options - need to get it on again
[21:17] <danfish> they do look a bit too perfect to be homemade
[21:21] <evilchristel> pff shop bought!
[21:21]  * AlanBell looks forward to sampling evilchristel's home made mince pies then
[21:21] <danfish> KrimZon: I think your requirements are beyond wicd. CLI config I think. Not really a personal strongpoint with wireless :(
[21:21] <evilchristel> AlanBell: :D
[21:22] <evilchristel> i shall make mince pies
[21:23] <KrimZon> maybe i'll just need to ask my landlady if i can get another phone socket fitted in the computer room
[21:43] <Nafallo> KrimZon: will you connection saturate the power plugs network then? :-)
[21:44] <KrimZon> powerline stuff is still expensive looking, but it's an option
[21:45] <KrimZon> maybe then i could try running a soft-ap from the server and route a firewalled guest wireless network
[21:45] <KrimZon> i've got it pinging the adsl router over wireless though
[21:45] <KrimZon> actually, full internet
[22:22] <KrimZon> i just realized, the whole lot doesn't have to be bridged - the bridge is only needed for the vpn to talk to the games machine
[22:24] <danfish> adios!
[23:07] <KrimZon> well... i've got it transfering files nicely


[03:34] <stub> Can anyone confirm that relation-list no longer includes the departing unit in a -departed hook, and since which version of Juju?
[03:35] <stub> cory_fu: (^^ from your issue comment, which might help me in other ways)
[06:47] <Makyo|away> wallyworld: would it be alright to land https://github.com/juju/bundlechanges/pull/24 ?  We've just about finished implementing the changes in the GUI
[07:17] <wallyworld> Makyo: that would be great
[07:18] <Makyo> wallyworld: ty!
[07:18] <wallyworld> Makyo: juju master pulls in a specific rev off that repo so I'll update the deps once that lands
[07:18] <Makyo> wallyworld: ah, thanks, that makes sense
[07:22] <Makyo> wallyworld: landed, ty
[07:22] <wallyworld> Makyo: awesome, thanks you for doin ght gui changes
[11:02] <gennadiy> hi everybody,
[11:02] <gennadiy> does it windows support subordinate charms now?
[11:51] <xilet> Really juju newbie question, if I need to make one change to a single config file in an already deployed charm (adding a new parameter to nova.conf), what is the syntax to do that? Or do I just ssh in and change it manually?
[11:58] <jamespage> ChrisHolcombe, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/328374/3
[11:59] <jamespage> some comments; I think we should bump the default as well if our reference deployments need a larger value than 300 seconds...
[12:19] <gennadiy> @xilet seems you should make new version of charm and upgrade it: juju upgrade-charm
[12:20] <jamespage> xilet, don't ssh and change it manually - the next time a config-changed runs (like on a reboot) your change will be overwritten
[12:20] <jamespage> xilet, what are you trying todo?
[12:20] <xilet> still working on the iscsi issue, so trying to add in volume_drivers=iscsi=nova.virt.libvirt.volume.LibvirtNetVolumeDriver
[12:20] <jamespage> gennadiy, I can't think why windows would not support subordinate charms
[12:21] <gennadiy> it doesn't work for me
[12:21] <jamespage> xilet, you might be about to poke that in using config-flags
[12:21] <gennadiy> ok for linux machine
[12:22] <jamespage> juju set nova-compute config-flags="volume_drivers=iscsi=nova.virt.libvirt.volume.LibvirtNetVolumeDriver"
[12:22] <jamespage> but that only writes to the DEFAULT section so it might not do the trick
[12:22] <jamespage> xilet, this is for the userspace iscsi support right?
[12:22] <xilet> yeah
[12:22] <xilet> ahh thanks, that is the syntax I was looking for
[12:22] <jamespage> xilet, this might make a nice first contribution for you to make it an offical feature
[12:23] <jamespage> juju set nova-compute userspace-iscsi=true
[12:23] <jamespage> is so much nicer!
[12:23] <xilet> if I can get this working, I will happily do so
[12:23] <jamespage> xilet, prove the theory and then if you'd like to work on a more formal config option let me know
[12:23] <jamespage> they are normally quite easy to add for this sort of thing
[12:32] <xilet> good to know, clearing out the old tests then will go through and see if it can access the disks from openstack
[12:33] <ionutbalutoiu> Hello! Can I configure Juju to boot new machines with a keypair via OpenStack provider ? Currently machines added to OpenStack via Juju do not have any keypair.
[12:37] <gennadiy> @ionutbalutoiu for linux machine or windows?
[12:37] <gennadiy> for linux machine it will add juju key
[12:38] <ionutbalutoiu> Either one don't get any nova keypair. But for Linux, I think the juju key is authorized via metadata.
[12:38] <ionutbalutoiu> But for Windows, you don't have any option.
[12:38] <gennadiy> juju uses keys from - ~/.local/share/juju/ssh/
[12:38] <gennadiy> for windows - i have asked this question yesterday
[12:39] <gennadiy> http://ask.cloudbase.it/question/1239/jujuopenstack-how-to-get-windows-machine-password/
[12:40] <gennadiy> also i have asked this question on juju mail list.
[12:40] <gennadiy> i have got this answer
[12:40] <gennadiy> You should be able to do something like:     juju run --machine <machine-id> "net user JujuAdministrator <password>"
[12:40] <gennadiy> but i haven't tested it
[12:40] <gennadiy> now we use workaround - our charm add local admin
[12:40] <ionutbalutoiu> Yes. This is only possible only with Juju 2.0
[12:41] <ionutbalutoiu> for for stable version 1.25.5 you cannot set/retrieve any password for a Windows machine unless you have access to console.
[12:41] <ionutbalutoiu> Juju run on Windows doesn't work on version of Juju < 2.0
[12:42] <ionutbalutoiu> After you boot a Windows machine with Nova, you can retrieve the Admin password via "nova get-password <instance_name> <private_key>"
[12:42] <ionutbalutoiu> but that's possible only if you boot the machine with a keypair. Is would be nice if Juju could have a config option, so that every machine it boots, it uses that configured keypair.
[12:44] <gennadiy> yes, i know.
[12:44] <gennadiy> so our workaround - create own user on machine from charm
[12:45] <gennadiy> it's very easy - https://github.com/cloudbase/juju-powershell-modules
[12:45] <gennadiy> there are - New-LocalAdmin function
[12:45] <ionutbalutoiu> I know. I'm working at Cloudbase. :)
[12:47] <ionutbalutoiu> Still, that's sort of a hack. I still consider that adding a config option for keypair in case of OpenStack provider, would make things cleaner.
[12:54] <lazyPower> heyyyy powershell modules
[12:54] <lazyPower> right on, i forgot those were published
[12:57] <admcleod> kjackal: im interested in the 'slow sync' messages in the hbase log during the smoke-test - have you seen these?
[13:06] <kjackal> admcleod: nope, I suspect what they mean but have never seen them
[13:06] <kjackal> let me see in hbase docs/list
[13:09] <kjackal> admcleod: something like this: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-11240
[13:09] <lazyPower> https://github.com/juju-solutions/interface-etcd-proxy/pull/2 - could use a quick CR on this if anyone has the bandwidth
[13:09] <lazyPower> i'm down a team-mate for spot reviews
[13:11] <admcleod> kjackal: right. >> "abnormal datanode" <<
[13:13] <kjackal> yes, basicaly, HBase writes everything in a write ahead log and then keeps it in memory. There are phases when everything that is in memory has to be written down to the secondary storage (compaction pahses). I guess this message means that the secondary storage takes toolong
[13:13] <kjackal> admcleod: ^
[13:19] <admcleod> kjackal: right, which means...
[13:41] <gennadiy> hi lazyProwe, do you have some windows subordinate charms in jujustore or github?
[13:47] <lazyPower> gennadiy - I dont believe we do, i think you're pioneering
[13:47] <lazyPower> gennadiy - the only windows charms I have interfaced with were principal charms provided by cloudbase
[13:54] <gennadiy> seem i was wrong with windows subordinate issue. i have just deployed empty subordinate charm - everything is ok
[14:00] <lazyPower> gennadiy - when you say "I have deployed empty subordinate charm" - do you mean on a windows series?
[14:01] <gennadiy> yes, i used this one - https://github.com/cloudbase/windows-charms-boilerplate
[14:01] <lazyPower> i'm not surprised that would work, if it has no hooks. The agent would skip all hooks.
[14:01] <lazyPower> and it would appear to be fine, when it really just no-op'd
[14:02] <lazyPower> gennadiy - have you logged a bug with the charm that appears to be broken? I dont have the time right now to dig into it but I'm interested in following the conversation
[14:03] <gennadiy> it's my charm. i'm creating 2 charms for windows. one is principal, another is subordinate
[14:03] <lazyPower> ah, well that does present certain... hurdles
[14:03] <cory_fu> stub: I confirmed it yesterday in 2.0-beta8
[14:05] <cory_fu> admcleod, kjackal: I don't know if you noticed that I moved the card, but the plugin ready issue was, I think, best fixed in charms.reactive, if you want to take a look: https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/pull/71
[14:07] <admcleod> cory_fu: ah yeah ok
[14:08] <cory_fu> Technically, the issue was a subtlety of Python, where `None and <anything>` returns None and not False like you would expect.  That, combined with using None as a deafult value to mean something significant made for unexpected behavior
[14:13] <stub> cory_fu: Ta. I'll assume is is a 2.0 feature for now.
[14:13] <cory_fu> stub: "Feature"
[14:14] <cory_fu> Seems like a bug to me, but at least I was able to work around it
[14:14] <cory_fu> Though I suppose it depends on how strictly you take the fact that the hook is -departed and not -departing
[14:14] <stub> cory_fu: Oh, I was thinking it might be part of a fix. Before, in a departed hook neither end had an idea about which unit was departing.
[14:15] <cory_fu> That seems like a round-about way of communicating it.
[14:16] <cory_fu> I mean, not wrong, per se, but then you still have to jump through the hoop of comparing JUJU_REMOTE_UNIT to the relation-list to figure out if it's you or the other unit
[14:16] <stub> cory_fu: So I guess I shouldn't rely on the behavior and wait for a real fix to https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1417874
[14:16] <mup> Bug #1417874: Impossible to cleanly remove a unit from a relation <canonical-is> <charms> <feature> <hooks> <sts> <sts-needs-review> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1417874>
[14:17] <lazyPower> cory_fu - the one thing i was curious about that pr is we're catching CalledProcessError
[14:17] <lazyPower> does relation_get not ever return > 0 except only in that scenario?
[14:18] <lazyPower> seems like we could be hiding other failure and skipping it due to that one little stanza. But it seems nitty and i dont have a solid use case for where thats bad
[14:20] <cory_fu> lazyPower: Well, no charm that I've ever seen captures CalledProcessError around the call to relation-get and I've never seen it fail in another circumstance.  But you're right that it's perhaps a bit heavy-handed.  Ideally, hookenv.relation_get would capture the stderr output on failure and we could inspect that, but that would require changes in charmhelpers.
[14:21] <lazyPower> I'm not about that life at the moment
[14:21] <lazyPower> carry on as you were sir
[14:21] <cory_fu> lazyPower: We could also assume that the units list cleanup is functional and remove the check entirely.  I'm not against that; I added the except before I was sure if I could reasonably do the cleanup
[14:22] <lazyPower> Thats the one niggly thing, and its really a nit
[14:22] <lazyPower> without empirical evidence that "hey this fails under x condition"
[14:24] <cory_fu> I did have the same concern, so I'm not against changing it.
[14:28] <lazyPower> :O Does this mean you're rubbing off on me cory_fu?
[14:28] <cory_fu> :)
[14:29] <stub> cory_fu, lazyPower , marcoceppi : So I knocked up https://github.com/stub42/ReactiveCharmingWorkflow a while ago, to codify and improve the process I'd embedded in the PostgreSQL charm Makefile. And per the 'Future' section in that am thinking of making this process simpler with some git plugins.
[14:29] <lazyPower> export JUJU_REPOSITORY=$CHARM_ROOT/repo
[14:29] <lazyPower> i want that to go away
[14:30] <lazyPower> its a legacy concept and we should kill it with fire
[14:30] <stub> cory_fu, lazyPower , marcoceppi : Does this seem like I'm going in the right direction, or do people have reasons to prefer multiple repos for source layer and built charm?
[14:30] <stub> lazyPower: Yes, but for now I need both Juju 1 and Juju 2. Plugins will be targetted for Juju 2 though.
[14:31] <lazyPower> from what im reading so far you're on the same path i've been using
[14:31] <lazyPower> --no-local-layers before building for a publish and testing that artifact pre-push, this is all like the workflow i wanted for CI too
[14:32] <lazyPower> i like your push/publish hack too
[14:32] <marcoceppi> stub: I'm traveling, but will review in a bit and leave comments, thanks for typing this up!
[14:32] <stub> I've opened isues on github to hopefully avoid that hack ;)
[14:33] <lazyPower> yeah LGTM stub - there's a few things in here i'll comment on later but initial scan was good
[14:33] <lazyPower> there are some conventions in here we could probably put into layer-basic as a Makefile and make this useful to more people out of the box
[14:33] <stub> I'm also considering if I should generate the branch name to contain the built version of a layer (so the master branch gets built to master-built)
[14:33] <lazyPower> but thats up to cory_fu
[14:33] <lazyPower> and other maintainers
[14:34] <stub> Well, I think the git bits are ugly enough to put into a git plugin, which I could package or snap
[14:34] <lazyPower> snap ftw
[14:35] <stub> git plugins should at least make things readable and avoid the ugly underlying details.
[14:36] <lazyPower> fair, i use a shell hack i got from gary bernhardts dotfiles for git pretty tree. its invaluable
[14:36] <stub> (git clones into temp directories etc. to ensure clean publication, committing uncommitted changes to the built branch before building)
[15:02] <kwmonroe> cory_fu: teach me some python.. are double underscored vars the convention for defining globals?  eg https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/pull/71/files
[15:25] <stub> It should really be "TOGGLE = object()". You only want magic strings if you need a readable string representation
[15:26] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: What stub just said.  I went with strings for debugging, but object() would have worked just as well and perhaps been less misleading
[15:28] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Also, leading / trailing underscores are a convention in Python for representing internal things.  Double underscores are usually reserved for Python-internal things, so I probably should have used single underscores, but it's just a string value and not an identifier, so it's slightly less of an issue
[15:28] <cory_fu> stub, kwmonroe: Feel free to nack the PR and I'll update it
[15:29] <stub> I'm not going to be that pedantic
[15:32] <kwmonroe> thx stub and cory_fu.. i didn't read that PR right from the get go.. i think i was thinking the *var* was __TOGGLE__ and didn't pick up that was just a string.. anyway, __SORRY__.
[15:34] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Yeah, I think the way I wrote that encourages that confusion.  I'm up for changing it to object() to avoid that
[15:48] <cory_fu> kwmonroe, stub: Updated.  Thanks
[17:44] <saudk> hey guys
[17:44] <saudk> having an issue deploying openstack using juju charms and maas
[17:46] <saudk> i am seeing the same IP assigned to juju-br0 and the interface that is connected to
[17:46] <saudk> in /etc/network/interfaces the interface e.g eth1 is set as inet manual
[17:48] <saudk> and in the same file /etc/network/interfaces.d/*.cfg is sourced where a file eth1.cfg exists in which eth1 is set as inet dhcp
[17:48] <marcoceppi> saudk: what versoin of maas?
[17:49] <saudk> 1.9.3+bzr4577-0ubuntu1~trusty1
[18:18] <kwmonroe> hey cory_fu, i'm reviewing https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/pull/72, but don't understand why -departed has to be handled in __init__.py, or for that matter why there's no handling of -joined that does rel.conversation().join().
[18:19] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: join happens implicitly in RelationBase.__init__: https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/blob/master/charms/reactive/relations.py#L156
[18:20] <cory_fu> The reason we need to call .depart() is that we're now depending on the internal list of units to be accurate, since Juju no longer includes the departing unit in relation-list
[18:20] <kwmonroe> yup, got it
[18:21] <cory_fu> It's actually better for that list to be accurate, anyway, for charm use
[18:21] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Give me a second to push up a minor edit to that.  Going to add logging to that try / except
[18:21] <kwmonroe> ack
[18:26] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Updated
[18:27] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: You'll notice that it was always my intention to have depart() called implicitly
[18:29] <kwmonroe> yes i will notice that cory_fu, but no one else will since the todo is going away.
[18:29] <cory_fu> :)
[18:29] <kwmonroe> frankly, that change is probably the only thing i'm qualified to review here ;)
[18:31] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - i dub you the pr poobah
[18:31] <lazyPower> you're now qualified to review everything by virtue of being the poobah
[18:31] <kwmonroe> we're doomed
[18:32] <kwmonroe> i remember back in the day (like monday), when the curtain looked so pretty.  why oh why did i stick my head behind there?
[18:33] <lazyPower> :) well your self confidence rating certainly shines through
[18:48] <kwmonroe> i can be poobah now lazyPower!  i totally get it.  i was missing the link between get_remote and relation_get -- it's related_units (and relation-list therein) causing the problem.
[18:51] <lazyPower> yep, that niggly little workflow we used to use back in the day
[19:14] <lazyPower> cory_fu - correct me if i'm wrong, but there's a key in layer.yaml i can use to control omission of files right?
[19:14] <lazyPower> eg: ignores: ['known-weird-module-that-doesnt-play-well-with-other-modules.py']
[19:15] <cory_fu> Yes, ignores, but be aware of this issue: https://github.com/juju/charm-tools/issues/220
[19:16] <cory_fu> lazyPower: The TL;DR of that issue is that ignores is currently not scoped to an individual layer
[19:16] <cory_fu> It will prevent a file with that name from being included in the final charm, period.
[19:17] <cory_fu> Also, that behavior is likely to change, and the calling convention of ignores might change, too
[19:19] <lazyPower> ok
[19:20] <lazyPower> i have need to exclude a test in the final product thats fine for the layer (for now)
[19:20] <lazyPower> so this is a good enough impl i'm opting fo rit
[19:20] <lazyPower> except that it doesn't appear to work with pathed files
[19:23] <lazyPower> http://paste.ubuntu.com/17376175/
[20:34] <bdx> hey whats up guys? Is there a way to update a resource without pushing the charm too?
[20:41] <lazyPower> bdx - see: charm attach --help
[20:46] <bdx> lazyPower: http://paste.ubuntu.com/17379141/
[20:46] <bdx> :-(
[20:46] <lazyPower> bdx  are you trying to push this to the store or to your controller?
[20:47] <lazyPower> the 502 bad gateway is troubling... but first things first :)
[20:50] <bdx> lazyPower: to the store
[20:54] <lazyPower> bdx ok thats odd.
[20:54] <lazyPower> jrwren - Charm store status looks good to you yeah?
[20:54]  * lazyPower remembers he needs to finish a reply to the etcd email now
[21:27] <magicaltrout> i love a prime, thats primest
[21:40] <cory_fu> lazyPower: The fix for the -relation-departed issue turned out to be a bit of a lame duck, and I had to go back and take a different approach
[21:40] <cory_fu> https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/pull/75/files if you want to review
[21:41] <cory_fu> kwmonroe spotted my mistake and is also reviewing
[21:43] <magicaltrout> you made a mistake cory_fu ?!
[21:43] <magicaltrout> sad times
[21:43] <cory_fu> As far as making mistakes goes, I'm on fire today
[21:43]  * magicaltrout spots smoke on the horizon
[21:44] <cory_fu> https://i.imgur.com/F0NtTsP.gif
[21:45] <magicaltrout> its like me on a daily basis
[21:45] <magicaltrout> of course as IT professionals, we never openly admit to the weird stuff that happens daily! ;)
[21:59] <kwmonroe> cory_fu: the "if unit not in self.units, continue" is to keep us from calling relation_get on globally scoped relation ids?
[21:59] <kwmonroe> (referring to https://github.com/juju-solutions/charms.reactive/pull/75/files#diff-3c5467f4229b8dd06bdf1c43813c03d8R623)
[22:00] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Not just GLOBAL.  Not every unit on a given relation will be in the state that the conversation is representing.  Some might still waiting on the unit to finish setting up and providing its relation data
[22:00] <kwmonroe> well, i guess not just global rel id, but more .... yeah, what you said.
[22:03] <cory_fu> I'm not sure I trust Travis at this point. :p
[22:05] <kwmonroe> lol cory_fu
[22:05] <kwmonroe> don't be mad
[22:05] <kwmonroe> https://github.com/johnsca/charms.reactive/blob/812a06f657a0b6fb3f1488f91a1a0a0aa13fe761/charms/reactive/relations.py#L19
[22:06] <cory_fu> Oh snap.    I need to go on my damned vacation.  :)
[22:10] <cory_fu> ha
[22:11] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: You want me to release it, or you want to try your hand now that you're a maintainer on pypi?
[22:11] <kwmonroe> the latter
[22:11] <cholcombe> thedac, interesting MR here
[22:12] <kwmonroe> ugh, my first objective as maintainer will be to remove the pesky 'make test' prereq of 'make release'.  this is taking too long.
[22:12] <cholcombe> thedac, there's actually a 3rd option but it's a PITA to setup
[22:13] <cory_fu> Only takes 6 seconds (times 2, I guess) for me.  How long does it take for you, kwmonroe?
[22:13] <kwmonroe> like at least 10 seconds
[22:13] <cory_fu> ha
[22:13] <thedac> cholcombe: hey, which MR are we talking about?
[22:13] <kwmonroe> anyway, she's away cory_fu.  go forth and vacation.
[22:13] <cholcombe> thedac, the dns HA for rgw
[22:13] <thedac> got it
[22:13] <cholcombe> thedac, so the other possibility here is we could use bgp
[22:14] <thedac> cholcombe: just keep in mind this is one of many https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:dnsha
[22:14] <cory_fu> kwmonroe: Sweet, thanks.  Be sure to let admcleod and kjackl know they can rebuild hbase and test it again
[22:14] <cholcombe> i see
[22:14] <lazyPower> haha guyzzzz
[22:14] <cory_fu> Actually, we'll need to rebuild hadoop-plugin to fix it
[22:14] <kwmonroe> what lazyPower?  you see something?
[22:14] <cory_fu> lazyPower: You talking to us?
[22:14] <kwmonroe> if you see something, you have to say something.
[22:14] <thedac> yes, one could use BGP, but these are charm handled HA options
[22:14] <cholcombe> thedac, interesting.  so the charm handles the vip?
[22:15] <cory_fu> lazyPower: Don't listen to kwmonroe.  You had your chance to review and you blew it.  ;)
[22:15] <thedac> Yes, you have to add it to the config but yes hacluster/corosync handles that
[22:15] <lazyPower> cory_fu kwmonroe  -nahhh i just looking over this thread of review comments ;)
[22:15] <cory_fu> Ah, lol
[22:15] <lazyPower> solid comedic gold considering i know how today has been :P
[22:16] <cory_fu> Alright, I'm out.  Everyone have a good weekend!
[22:16] <lazyPower> cheers cory_fu
[22:16] <kwmonroe> adios
[22:16] <cholcombe> thedac, i've had a lot of good experience with floating vip's using ctdb.  It's very solid
[22:16] <lazyPower> (its only Wed.)
[22:16] <kwmonroe> lol
[22:16] <cholcombe> thedac, corosync i have no experience with so i'll do the best i can reviewing
[22:17] <magicaltrout> youth of today
[22:17] <magicaltrout> always on holiday
[22:17] <cory_fu> lazyPower: I'm out for the rest of the week
[22:17] <lazyPower> oo snap
[22:17] <kwmonroe> pretty sure it's thanksgiving this week
[22:17] <lazyPower> (jackie face)
[22:18] <thedac> cholcombe: keep in mind the corosync VIP solution was already there (it is just indented). I added the DNS bit which is a call out to charmhelpers which has already been reviewed. You can also just do a +1 and wait for a second opinion.
[22:18] <cholcombe> thedac, cool
[22:18] <lazyPower> > You can also just do a +1 and wait for a second opinion.
[22:18] <lazyPower> pretty much exactly what i do
[22:18] <lazyPower> cholcombe - you're getting solid guidance here. i approve
[22:19] <cholcombe> lazyPower, :)
[22:19] <thedac> :)
[22:22] <cholcombe> thedac, looks reasonable.  I just have a question on the hooks.py code
[22:22] <thedac> shoot?
[22:24] <cholcombe> thedac, i'm just wondering if the iface turns up as None on the vip if we should error or log there.  The code currently skips that case
[22:24] <cholcombe> thedac, I know it's not your code
[22:24] <thedac> looking
[22:29] <kwmonroe> lazyPower: the only thing holding kubes-core from passing cwr is a "charm push . cs:~containers/bundle/kubernetes-core" from a recent https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-kubernetes-core dir.  feeling frisky?  (i am, but i'm not in ~containers)
[22:29] <thedac> so, good point. What I would like to eventually do is move the VIP code to charmhlpers just like the update_dns_ha_resource_params.  Then we could fix it in one place. Right now I am trying to change as little as possible so that only the additional feature is added if it needs to be reverted for any reason.
[22:30] <thedac> Was that weasaly enough :)
[22:34] <cholcombe> thedac, fair enough :)
[22:46] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - i cant fix it like that
[22:46] <lazyPower> kwmonroe - not without landing the pile of CR's i linked elsewhere
[22:46] <lazyPower> i'd love to publish though :)
[22:48] <kwmonroe> ah, ack lazyPower.  i thought it was just a case of the bundle not using the latest rev of the kubes charm.
[22:56] <lazyPower> that indeed is the case, but its more involved :)
[23:09] <magicalt1out> :P
[23:11] <lazyPower> primey wimey spacey wacey amirite?
[23:18] <lazyPower> bdx - i circled back and it appears to work now?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/17383707/
[23:29] <bdx> lazyPower: did it not work for you earlier either?
[23:30] <lazyPower> bdx - i didnt try at that time, i was judging based on the output. can you give it another go?
[23:30] <lazyPower> it may have been transient
[23:30] <bdx> yea, omp
[23:32] <bdx> lazyPower: yeah, its working now
[23:32] <bdx> lazyPower: trickery
[23:32] <lazyPower> ok cool. sorry that happened :( i got no response when i pinged so i circled back
[23:32] <bdx> hey thanks!
[23:32] <lazyPower> np mate
[23:32] <lazyPower> glad we got it sorted