[12:14] <Robot101> dsas: nokia are tusling with their legal department to determine if they can release it
[12:14] <Robot101> (the SIP backend they have)
[12:15] <v_> hi... what ubuntu edgy package contains shadow utilities?
[12:15] <v_> i've just installed a system using debootstrap, so i don't have it
[02:30] <Liberax> hi anybody has experimented the pptp bug on amd64 with network manager?
[02:36] <pochu> Liberax: what bug?
[02:37] <Liberax> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-pptp/+bug/67881
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67881 in network-manager-pptp "Crash while trying to connect to PPTP server" [Undecided,In progress]
[02:37] <Liberax> pochu: i'm looking for someone to check this patch
[02:38] <pochu> Liberax: I've never experienced this issue, so I won't be able to test it
[02:38] <Liberax> pochu: you need to run on amd 64
[02:39] <pochu> Liberax: haha, and I don't have either an amd64 machine
[02:39] <pochu> :)
[02:39] <pochu> Liberax: try asking on #ubuntu-motu
[02:39] <Liberax> pochu: are there plan to release nm 0.7 on festy?
[02:40] <pochu> Liberax: I think n-m 0.7 hasn't been released
[02:40] <pochu> am I right?
[02:40] <Liberax> yes but i think nm is proposed as an official gnome 2.18 module
[02:41] <Liberax> pochu: i doesn't know if they release 0.7 on it
[02:41] <pochu> if it's going to be in gnome 2.18, I think it will be in Feisty
[02:42] <LaserJock> not necessarily
[02:42] <LaserJock> not *all* modules in Gnome get a UVF/FF exception
[02:44] <pochu> LaserJock: do you know if n-m is going to be by default in feisty because the network reaming specs?
[02:44] <Burgwork> pochu: currently it is installed by default
[02:45] <Burgwork> roaming, not reaming
[02:45] <Burgwork> reaming is something entirely different :D
[02:45] <pochu> Burgwork: typo
[02:45] <pochu> don't know what reaming means, wanted to say roaming :)
[02:45] <Burgwork> ream is a rather rude term in general english
[02:45] <pochu> Burgwork: I installed Feisty about 2 weeks ago and Feisty wasn't by default
[02:45] <pochu> Burgwork: are you sure it is now?
[02:46] <Burgwork> the plan is yes, provided it doesn't break things too badly
[02:46] <Burgwork> the reason it has been removed before
[02:47] <LaserJock> yeah, it was difficult in Edgy
[02:47] <LaserJock> I haven't tried it in Feisty yet
[02:47] <Mirv> and Dapper, and Breezy.
[02:47] <LaserJock> :-)
[02:47] <pochu> I have it, and it works fine
[02:47] <Burgwork> it still doesn't understand static IPS
[02:47] <pochu> but my intel driver has been broken
[02:47] <LaserJock> they biggest problem for me is I generally static IPs
[02:47] <Mirv> don't know if n-m can succeed before the whole wlan stuff proceeds further in linux
[02:47] <crimsun> Burgwork: I'm presuming, then, that it doesn't play nicely with resolvconf.
[02:48] <Burgwork> probably not
[02:48] <LaserJock> ugg, resolvconf and nm have caused me so much networking headache
[02:48] <crimsun> I use resolvconf with udhcpc quite merrily.
[02:48] <crimsun> dhcp3-client (dhclient) causes me endless pain.
[02:49] <Liberax> i think that if the network is configured statically on the admin panel (gome system tools) nm applet will not control the device
[02:49] <LaserJock> it's annoying to have all my computers set up and then on reboot it's all overwritten
[02:49] <Burgwork> Liberax: I don't know if that has been written yet
[02:49] <Burgwork> the GNOME people wanted that before they would accept NM in
[02:49] <LaserJock> smart
[02:50] <Liberax> i tested this on edgy.. as i can remember
[02:50] <LaserJock> the gnome system tools app doesn't like me either though
[02:50] <pochu> there is a bug in malone about static ip address
[02:50] <LaserJock> yes
[02:51] <Burgwork> it is not a major priority, afaics from the NM todo list
[02:51] <Burgwork> apparently NM can handle static IPs, just no GUI for it
[02:51] <Liberax> i tink that the device is configured on /etc/network/interfaces nm applet will not control the device
[02:51] <Burgwork> that was an Ubuntu specific patch, afaik
[02:51] <pochu> I don't care, as long as I use dinamical ips
[02:51] <pochu> :)
[02:52] <Burgwork> except when you run into a network that requires it
[02:52] <LaserJock> I only have 1 computer out of 5 that I use regularly that has a dynamic ip
[02:52] <LaserJock> :/
[02:52] <pochu> I don't do that :)
[02:52] <Liberax> Burgwork: i doesn't know if it work also on redhat or other distro network file configuration
[02:52] <pochu> LaserJock: do you really have 5 computers?
[02:53] <pochu> are they servers or what?
[02:53] <bhale> i have at least 4
[02:53] <LaserJock> pochu: 2 at home, 3 at work
[02:53] <bhale> at least 5
[02:53] <bhale> not counting servers
[02:53] <Burgwork> Liberax: they don't use /etc/network/interfaces
[02:53] <pochu> LaserJock: don't you work at home?
[02:53] <pochu> :)
[02:53] <LaserJock> umm, no
[02:53] <LaserJock> sometimes
[02:53] <LaserJock> but I'm a chemist and the lab doesn't run well from home
[02:53] <pochu> oh, don't you work for canonical?
[02:54] <Liberax> Burgwork: i mean if nm check other backend network config files
[02:54] <LaserJock> pochu: umm, no. Most people here don't
[02:54] <pochu> I tought all ubuntu devs worked for canonical
[02:54] <LaserJock> haha
[02:54] <pochu> thought
[02:54] <pochu> :)
[02:54] <LaserJock> not even close
[02:54] <pochu> then, just mdz and mark?
[02:54] <pochu> :)
[02:54] <LaserJock> if you count MOTUs there are something around 80 devs
[02:54] <pochu> ups
[02:55] <LaserJock> and about 15-20 are Canonical, I think
[02:55] <LaserJock> could be a bit off there though
[02:55] <pochu> haha
[02:55] <pochu> :)
[02:55] <pochu> and you are a motu, right?
[02:55] <LaserJock> yes
[02:55] <pochu> so you are an ubuntu dev
[02:55] <LaserJock> yes
[02:55] <pochu> :)
[02:55] <pochu> I learn very quickly
[02:55] <pochu> :)
[02:55] <LaserJock> not a core-dev though
[02:56] <pochu> core-devs work for canonical?
[02:56] <LaserJock> well, it's a bit complicated
[02:56] <Burgwork> pochu: a good number do, maybe even most
[02:56] <crimsun> But no, not all core-dev are Canonical employees.
[02:56] <LaserJock> all the canonical devs are core-devs
[02:56] <pochu> do you do?
[02:57] <pochu> and Launchpad devs are?
[02:57] <LaserJock> Canonical
[02:57] <Liberax> How do I setup a static IP address with NetworkManager?
[02:57] <Liberax> NetworkManager has limited support for static IP addressing. Configuration of static IPs is distribution specific and should use that distribution's normal network configuration methods.
[02:57] <Liberax> For example, on Fedora Core, using the system-config-network tool or editing /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth1 to set a static IP up for the device 'eth1' would result in NetworkManager using that static IP configuration whenever you connect to an access point using eth1. Obviously, since static IP configuration is always a manual task, NetworkManager is not able to automate the process in any way.
[02:57] <pochu> then all the devs who don't work for canonical do their work just for fun?
[02:57] <pochu> as me?
[02:58] <LaserJock> well, not sure about fun
[02:58] <LaserJock> ;-)
[02:58] <LaserJock> but we are mostly volunteers yes
[02:58] <Liberax> Burgwork: so work also on redhat style distro
[02:58] <pochu> but if you don't earn money, and you don't be fun with what you are doing here, why do you do it?
[02:58] <Burgwork> Liberax: I have no idea. I avoid the Fedora machines at work like the plague
[02:58] <LaserJock> pochu: sometimes it's more like a job, except you don't get paid
[02:59] <pochu> LaserJock: can't understand :)
[02:59] <LaserJock> most of us do it because we believe in Ubuntu and its community ( I think that could be a fairly general statement )
[02:59] <Liberax> I think on debian style and redhat style file configuration if the text config file is edited network manager doesn't control the device configured manually
[02:59] <pochu> well, I can't understand just if you don't enjoy it
[03:00] <LaserJock> but sometimes it's very hard, time-consuming, and aggrivating
[03:00] <pochu> LaserJock: that's a good argument
[03:00] <pochu> :)
[03:00] <LaserJock> so yes, we like to do it, but that doesn't mean it's always fun
[03:00] <Burgwork> cya all
[03:00] <pochu> LaserJock: and don't you are an IT?
[03:00] <pochu> if you are chemist...
[03:00] <LaserJock> no, not at all
[03:01] <LaserJock> I've never taking a computer/IT class in my life
[03:01] <pochu> but you know a lot, and you like computers...
[03:01] <LaserJock> *taken
[03:01] <pochu> right?
[03:01] <LaserJock> and my research doesn't really involve computers at all
[03:01] <LaserJock> well, I know a bit and I like working on computers
[03:02] <pochu> thanks for the class
[03:02] <pochu> :)
[03:03] <bddebian> Gah, did I miss a class?
[03:03] <pochu> bddebian: you did :)
[03:05] <bddebian> Figures, I have no class :-)
[03:05] <pochu> I had, but I didn't go today
[03:05] <pochu> :)
[03:13] <okaratas> hello
[03:13] <pochu> okaratas: hello
[03:13] <pochu> cjwatson: ping?
[03:14] <pochu> LaserJock: do you know anything about ubiquity bugs?
[03:17] <dsas> pochu: If you haven't saw it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUbiquity has some info on ubiquity bugs
[03:18] <dsas> well, it has info even if you have saw it...
[03:18] <pochu> haha
[03:18] <pochu> dsas, thanks
[03:39] <bddebian> How long is everyone going to be at the devel sprint?
[03:40] <mjg59> Mostly leaving today
[03:42] <bddebian> mjg59: Ah, thx
[03:43] <bddebian> mjg59: Were you the one that told me we ripped libGLw out a while back?
[03:43] <mjg59> No
[03:44] <bddebian> OK
[03:47] <azeem> bddebian: I think daniels did that, back then, but I'm not sure
[03:47] <azeem> well, ripping it out, not telling you
[03:48] <bddebian> Yeah.  I'm wondering if it's gone for good.
[03:48] <bddebian> What the heck happened to daniels anyway?
[03:48] <azeem> I seem to remember rodarvus mentioning it might come back
[03:48] <azeem> not sure though
[03:49] <bddebian> I can't get xbvl to build without it, even with --without-MESA :-(
[03:50] <azeem> then maybe it's time to throw out xbvl? :)
[03:50] <bddebian> Heh, works for me :-)
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> an exchange server would be nice.
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> thunderbird/lightning, evolution, xfce with ical based calendar...
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> all storing things in different places.. you MUST use Evo to get calendar in gnome's clock to work... MUST use xfce's thing to get their calendar to work... damn.
[05:22] <bluefoxicy> since we can't agree on where to put calendar data...
[05:23] <bluefoxicy> I don't know why, but it tends to take an act of God (or an LDAP implementation) to get 6 different apps to store the same basic information in the same place, even though they all use the same format.
[05:24] <_ion> Yeah.
[05:25] <_ion> With opensync, you can probably synchronize each app's calendars  you might have to write a plugin for xfce first, though. :-)
[05:25] <_ion> There seems to be plugins for evolution and sunbird already.
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> like, thunderbird/evo connects to exchange server at localhost:55555 (or over a UNIX socket), asks for <some mail account)
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> local server POP3's out, gets mail.
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> repeat for other silly things that store same crap in different places
[05:27] <_ion> Eww. Why not just use IMAP?
[05:27] <_ion> For mail, that is.
[05:27] <bluefoxicy> IMAP rather than exchange perhaps :P
[05:27] <bluefoxicy> but exchange gets you calendars
[05:27] <bluefoxicy> (IMAP + Exchange == Evo + Sunbird can both use it!)
[05:28] <_ion> I wonder, actually, whether it would be feasible to use IMAP maildirs as calendar storage. Just tell the MUA "this is a calendar" and have it store each calendar item as a "message" in a specified format.
[05:31] <bluefoxicy> ugly hack
[05:32] <bluefoxicy> I would prefer something that fools existing idiots-- err, applications into thinking they're getting data from somewhere.
[05:32] <_ion> I don't really see why that would be either ugly or a hack.
[05:33] <bluefoxicy> as ugly as googlefs
[05:33] <_ion> That's something completely different. :-)
[05:33] <bluefoxicy> i.e. using <storage container A> to store <subject matter B> by wrapping it up to look like <Subject matter A>
[05:34] <bluefoxicy> think about it
[05:34] <bluefoxicy> it would have a From:  and a To:  and would probably be sent through the SMTP/POP3 system and be duplicated
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> Client<->IMAP<->{email system}  Client tells IMAP to send/view messages, if it sends it goes out to the email system, if it sends to self it comes back :/
[05:35] <_ion> Maildir items are just headers + content. They are perfectly suitable for calendar items. You don't need to define From: and To:, neither you need to (or should!) use SMTP/POP3.
[05:35] <bluefoxicy> IMAP lets you dump arbitrary junk into it?
[05:36] <_ion> For example, here's an information organization tool that uses mailbox as its storage format. It's just perfectly suitable. http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomov/riot/
[05:36] <_ion> You can open its data file in Mutt and see the "threading" correctly.
[05:37] <_ion> It has nothing to do with e-mail, but still it's totally suitable. Just like storing calendar items in that format. :-)
[05:38] <_ion> IMAP servers magically handle whatever's needed for multiple clients to be connected simultaneously.
[05:43] <_ion> http://freshmeat.net/projects/imap_calendar_proxy/
[05:50] <_ion> HTTP, the *Hypertext* Transfer Protocol, has proven to be suitable for other things than just hypertext. Why wouldn't that be the case with IMAP?
[06:02] <YeaSt> ?
[07:19] <balarka> hi
[07:32] <somerville32> You gotta love it when apport reports it's self crashing, lol
[07:38] <Mez> espescially if it crashes when it reports itself crashing
[09:40] <siretart> mjg59: around? I have a usplash question for you
[10:09] <Goliath23> hi
[10:09] <Goliath23> where can I read the changelog of the linux kernel package from 2.6.15-26 to 2.6.15-27? and is there an alternate install cd (text install with possibility to setup a raid) that uses the latter kernel version?
[11:49] <Seveas> keescook, ping
[11:50] <Seveas> err nvm, you're probably sleeping
[11:50] <Seveas> anyway: if USN's contain sourceforge bugs, the link to the bug is busted
[11:57] <zoli2k> I wrote  some c++ header files for data visualization and I would like to put it to our internal server and allow other scientist to install them on ubuntu.
[11:58] <zoli2k> Is there any tutorial how to start build easily and correctly deb packages for ubuntu?
[11:59] <v_> hi. will it cause problems if i installed two packages that provide the same meta package, or whatever it's called, ie. two packages that provide system-log-daemon
[12:03] <v_> ok
[12:03] <v_> i read the topic, just now
[12:03] <v_> oops
[12:04] <v_> :P
[12:14] <Seveas> zoli2k, on help.ubuntu.com you can find the packaging guide
[12:15] <Seveas> zoli2k, by the way: beginners packaging questions are more suitable for #ubuntu-motu
[12:23] <MetaBookfoziS> hola
[12:24] <MetaBookfoziS> why the kubntu feisty herd cd2 hasn't got partitionmanager ?
[12:24] <MetaBookfoziS> it want's to write my whole disk... (but i'm don't want that)
[01:00] <_ion> mbiebl: Updated the diff, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker/+bug/81800
[01:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81800 in tracker "New upstream release: 0.5.4" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[01:03] <linuxboy_> herd 2 doesn't work on my asus A6V I booted on live-cd Kubuntu 7.04 then press on F6 and I remove quiet et splash and put 1 instead then press enter
[01:03] <linuxboy_> after battery state..... I have a black screen :(
[01:03] <Hobbsee> linuxboy_: filed a bug?
[01:04] <Hobbsee> linuxboy_: with /var/log/syslog and /var/log/xserver.0.log ?
[01:06] <linuxboy_> I run the feisty with a live-cd ....
[01:06] <Hobbsee> oh wait, a live cd
[01:06] <Hobbsee> so it doesnt boot at all, even without quiet splash there?
[01:07] <linuxboy_> ok I can file a bug but what do I put in ?
[01:07] <Hobbsee> linux-kernel-2.6.20, i'd guess.
[01:07] <linuxboy_> it boots .....
[01:08] <Hobbsee> right
[01:08] <Hobbsee> so you do get the logs
[01:08] <linuxboy_> but after the battery state field the screen turns off :(
[01:08] <linuxboy_> how I can get the logs ?
[01:08] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[01:09] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure....hrm.
[01:09] <linuxboy_> I was in console ...... when I booted .....
[01:10] <linuxboy_> you know each step appears
[01:10] <Hobbsee> ah
[01:10] <linuxboy_> and after battery state there was something with local.rc
[01:10] <Hobbsee> oh...there
[01:10] <linuxboy_> and no screen anymore :(
[01:11] <Hobbsee> in failsafe X mode, presumably?
[01:11] <linuxboy_>  I am on a laptop asus A6V
[01:11] <linuxboy_> yes I try in safemode with vesa
[01:11] <linuxboy_> but it's the same thing
[01:11] <linuxboy_> I put also acpi=off
[01:12] <linuxboy_> I have to eat and I come back after .... and I will try the daily live-cd .....
[01:12] <linuxboy_> thanks !
[01:13] <Hobbsee> ah
[01:22] <Goliath23> I think I found a "low hanging fruit" feature request/bugfix for the raid-konfiguration in the text installer, shall I report it in launchpad?
[01:22] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: yes.  file under debian-installer
[01:23] <Goliath23> thing is: if you setup one ore more big raid devices after finishing the partition part the installer hangs pretty long with the plain blue screen while in the background the new md devices are synced
[01:23] <Goliath23> I think via /proc/mdstat a progess bar could be easily implemented
[01:23] <Goliath23> is that a bug ore feature request?
[01:24] <Goliath23> pretty long means several minutes, 160 gb raid took 10-15 minutes or so
[01:24] <Goliath23> without visual notification most users probably think that their computer hangs, especially with quiet disks ;)
[01:25] <linuxboy_> Hobbsee: ok re ....
[01:26] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: worth putting it in, i expect
[01:26] <linuxboy_> how I can get errors messages ?
[01:26] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: ok.. damnit, I have to use launchpad again. :) I try to file it for debian-installer
[01:27] <Goliath23> problem is: try to search for package "debian-installer" gives you all packages since all depend on it I guess
[01:29] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+filebug
[01:30] <Hobbsee> linuxboy_: i dont know..
[01:38] <Goliath23> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/81816
[01:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81816 in debian-installer "setting up raid partitions takes very long and installer shows no progress bar for it" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[01:39] <Goliath23> I couldn't find fields to select version and so on, so I wrote it in the description
[01:39] <Hobbsee> Goliath23: cool ;)
[01:39] <Goliath23> kk
[01:40] <Goliath23> thanks for making the raid setup so easy, enabling me to configure a database server for my girlfriends clinical laboratory! I love kubuntu ;)
[01:41] <Goliath23> and ubuntu of course *g*
[01:47] <solemnwarning> Why does ubuntu detect a pccard to compact-flash adaptor and use the devices sd* when debian uses hde because it's detected by pccard IDE?
[01:48] <kokoa> hello
[03:08] <linuxboy_> hey !
[03:08] <linuxboy_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/81826 :(
[03:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81826 in Ubuntu "[feisty herd2]  [27.01.2007 i386-desktop]  screen cuts off after the steps battery state and local.rc !" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[03:21] <linuxboy_> some help ? :(
[03:24] <_MMA_> linuxboy_: #ubuntu+1
[03:57] <linuxboy_> _MMA_ ??
[03:58] <linuxboy_> what is it
[03:58] <linuxboy_> ah ok
[04:32] <pirast> do we need urgency=high for security updates?
[04:42] <Adri2000> pirast: I don't think so, 'urgency" is used in debian to say that a package needs to go into testing quickly, so that's useless in ubuntu
[04:42] <Adri2000> s/"/'/ :)
[04:44] <crimsun> pirast: I'm taking a SVN snap of vlc, so #76810 is in progress.
[04:44] <crimsun> 78610, rather
[04:47] <fabbione> siretart: #81841 is a duplicate of another one
[04:47] <fabbione> known problem
[04:49] <fabbione> siretart: and kernel isn't at fault really. it's a race between libdevmapper/udev/lvm2
[04:51] <siretart> fabbione: ?!?! - this means that this race is causing vg data corruption?!
[04:51] <fabbione> yes
[04:51] <fabbione> as i said.. it's a known problem
[04:51] <siretart> puh. that's pretty critical, I'd say
[04:51] <fabbione> no it's not.. that kind of mess is not common
[04:51] <fabbione> we have a fix that's pending upload
[04:51] <siretart> fabbione: is this the same race that prevents systems with root on lvm on raid booting?
[04:52] <fabbione> no different one
[04:52] <siretart> :(
[04:52] <fabbione> it's a race creating devices in /dev
[04:52] <fabbione> and sometimes you get hooked to the wrong one
[04:52] <siretart> fabbione: I do run several ubuntu servers which use several layers of lvm snapshots for backup purposes
[04:52] <siretart> so I wouldn't say this was too uncommon
[04:52] <fabbione> it's when you create multiple snapshots at the same time that you hit the issue
[04:52] <fabbione> not when you do one at a time
[04:53] <siretart> yes, on these systems I'm doing this
[04:53] <siretart> to simulate something similar to the windows shadow copies
[04:53] <siretart> shadow volumes, or however that crap is called
[04:53] <fabbione> in any case there is a duplicate in LP
[04:53] <fabbione> so please go look for it
[04:53] <fabbione> yeah but in any case when you create ONE at a time is not a problem
[04:54] <fabbione> when you create tons in one go it might be an issue
[04:54] <pochu> _ion: ping?
[04:54] <fabbione> and it depends on tons of factors
[04:54] <siretart> bug #81841
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81841 in lvm2 "creation of multiple snapshots currupts LVM metadata of volume group" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81841
[04:54] <_ion> pochu: pong
[04:54] <siretart> no, I'm holding several snapshots in paralell for some longer time
[04:54] <pochu> _ion: are you working on the update of tracker?
[04:55] <_ion> pochu: Yep.
[04:55] <siretart> given this bug, I come to the conclusion that lvm isn't robust enough for that :(
[04:55] <pochu> _ion: then we were doing the same ;)
[04:55] <pochu> _ion: do it you, because I'm a little noob
[04:55] <pochu> ;)
[04:55] <gezzabob> hi all
[04:55] <siretart> fabbione: perhaps bug #76421?
[04:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76421 in lvm2 "system crash when creating more than one snapshot of a lvm volume" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76421
[04:56] <pochu> _ion: did you see that you need to add libmagic-dev to the build-depends?
[04:57] <_ion> pochu: Yes, please take a look at the diff i've posted to bug #81800.
[04:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81800 in tracker "New upstream release: 0.5.4" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81800
[04:57] <_ion> pochu: A diff from the 0.5.3 packaging so far: http://librarian.launchpad.net/5908617/tracker.interdiff
[04:57] <pochu> _ion: ask in #ubuntu-motu
[04:57] <siretart> fabbione: or maybe you mean our good ol' friend bug #38409?
[04:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38409 in Debian "creation of snapshots fails unpredictably" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38409
[04:58] <fabbione> siretart: yeps
[04:58] <fabbione> the latter one
[04:58] <fabbione> anyway.. back to have some fun
[04:58] <fabbione> it's saturday
[04:58] <siretart> wow. I thought that one was worked around, since it didn't appear in dapper nor edgty
[04:59] <siretart> and not before some weeks in feisty
[04:59] <siretart> :(
[04:59] <fabbione> siretart: in feisty we did revert the workaround to get the proper fix.. you are running feisty.. live with it.. it's development
[04:59] <siretart> well, sure, I know
[05:00] <gezzabob> am I in the right place to chat about an idea Ive been thinking about...  something alone the line of linux (ubuntu) running on a multi core 64 system but in a way that will allow 2xkenels to run at the same time.  Its a weird idea and not one of the norms but it would have its benefits eg better security (each kernel can check the other for rootkits etc) and also things like when one kernel gets updated the other can take contr
[05:00] <gezzabob> ol keeping the system running while the other restarted etc...
[05:00] <siretart> fabbione: would you agree raising severity to critical?
[05:01] <siretart> i've seen some other critical bug which is about dapper screwing the hardware clock on some dell laptops
[05:01] <siretart> so I think the impact is about comparable
[05:03] <gezzabob> im not really a developer as such but look into things like this working on a it call desk at night can get a bit boring and I usually have a lot of spare time to research such ideas
[05:03] <fabbione> Simira: no, becaue as i just told you is known and we are about to land the proper fix
[05:03] <fabbione> siretart: ^
[05:04] <siretart> ah, ok
[05:05] <gezzabob> I have looked over many programming languages I much prefer asm and c/c++ hence my liking for linux has a whole it promotes free thinking and the environment for development
[05:07] <gezzabob> ive dabbled with linux from scratch and osdev intresting stuff, been a user now of ubuntu and want to become a bit more active in its development but not sure where to start really
[05:08] <gezzabob> anybody here point me in direction how I could help out and wheres good to start etc
[05:11] <gezzabob> any where I can get a look at developing code and pointers how to debug it etc so I can learn more and hopefully be useful
[05:13] <crimsun> gezzabob: please see the topic.
[05:14] <gezzabob> yes crimsun sorry if I am being a pain but i am only looking for somewhere to start thats all any suggestions
[05:16] <gezzabob> oh yes i see now oops sorry didnt spot that earlier  have fun .....:)
[05:25] <siretart> crimsun: yay. xine-lib 1.1.3 finally now in debian-experimental, following the binary package split
[05:25] <crimsun> siretart: rockin'
[05:38] <pirast> Adri2000, thanks
[05:38] <pirast> crmsun, what's about the security bug in edgy, dapper, breezy?
[05:38] <pirast> crimsun
[05:39] <pirast> crimsun, do you also fix them? if not, I have a .debdiff for at least edgy prepared
[05:39] <crimsun> pirast: if you can generate the debdiffs for those, that would be appreciated.
[05:39] <crimsun> pirast: keescook would take care of those; attach the debdiffs, please.
[05:39] <pirast> crimsun, okay, goes to security-review ml then..
[05:40] <pirast> crimsun, already nominated some releases, but it seems that it has to be reviewed..
[05:41] <pirast> crimsun, i will assign the ubuntu task to you then, okay?
[05:42] <crimsun> I'll handle feisty, and I'll approve the others, but please don't assign breezy/dapper/edgy to me [yet]
[05:42] <pirast> crimsun, yeah, ill assign the edgy task at least to me..
[05:42] <pirast> dapper should follow then
[06:08] <pirast> crimsun, there's another security issue in vlc
[06:08] <pirast> besides the moab one
[06:08] <pirast> (let's move to motu chan)
[06:56] <gortan> ubuntu is a devel
[07:10] <mdke> sfllaw: any progress on the ubuntu-docs in -proposed? I'd like to get that out of the way, I have another simply update to do soon
[07:50] <gouchi> Hi
[07:50] <gouchi> any news about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/linux-kernel-crash-dump ?
[07:59] <linuxboy1> re !
[08:00] <linuxboy1> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/81826
[08:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81826 in Ubuntu "[feisty herd2]  [27.01.2007 i386-desktop]  screen cuts off after the steps battery state and local.rc !" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[08:33] <bddebian> Heya
[08:33] <_ion> Hi
[08:33] <bddebian> Hello _ion
[09:28] <keescook> crimsun: something went wrong with the builds of acroread in the buildds.  I'm still tracking it down.  I didn't want you to think I'd forgotten it.  :)
[09:36] <linuxboy1> somebody knows how to use sysprof ?
[11:20] <linuxboy1> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/81826
[11:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 81826 in Ubuntu "[feisty herd2]  [27.01.2007 i386-desktop]  screen cuts off after the steps battery state and local.rc !" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]


[02:25] <daftykins> Robbie Coltrane died :o
[02:28] <zxmpi> was tempted to bung on blackadder episode where he plays mr. johnson
[17:40] <daftykins> £1 chocolate oranges were liberated this very afternoon!
[17:58] <penguin42> excellent
[18:01] <davef> mmm.. unfortunately I devoured both of my exports
[18:02] <daftykins> RIP
[18:05] <davef> and I found a decent facsimile of jaffa cakes
[18:11] <daftykins> ooh that sounds like a stroke of luck
[18:13] <daftykins> i saw some on discount today but abstained
[19:15] <zxmpi> i have one sassenach talking about a great biscuit shortage in uk. might want to stock up
[19:48] <daftykins> a what now o0
[19:55] <zxmpi> kinda like the gingernut biscuit shortage of a few years back but more biscuits involved
[19:57] <daftykins> oh i just wasn't familiar with "Sassenach" :P
[19:57] <penguin42> wasn't some of that due to flooding at McVities in carlisle?
[19:57] <daftykins> those poor biscuits :(
[19:57] <zxmpi> ancient celtic word translates as saxon. it is not a nice thing to be called
[20:02] <zxmpi> yeah single plant was flooded and no gingernuts for nearly a year iirc. irish plant was working overtime but they disappeared to uk at great profit
[20:05] <penguin42> since then one of the few mcvities competitors has failed
[20:08] <zxmpi> brexit has changed the rules for a lot of businesses
[20:09] <penguin42> now we can have imperial biscuits!
[20:10] <zxmpi> weevils and all
[20:10]  * penguin42 measures his weevils
[20:11] <zxmpi> and no chocolate chip cookies as they're too american
[20:22] <zxmpi> no nice or garibaldi either
[20:25] <penguin42> fortunately I think we have local Oreo production
[20:38] <zxmpi> you do need something to grit the roads when it snows :-P
[21:45] <daftykins> hehe
[22:01] <zxmpi> right blackadder. dr. johnson...


[00:50] <vychune> o/
[01:05] <Unit193> Howdy, vychune
[02:03] <cyberanger> chris4585: I think I've figured out how I'm gonna push out custom live disc images
[02:10] <wrst> hello cyberanger
[02:16] <cyberanger> hey wrst
[02:17] <cyberanger> I think I've figured out how I'm gonna push out custom live disc images, without hurting my own connection much
[02:17] <cyberanger> use some apache redirects and http://www.coralcdn.org/
[02:23] <cyberanger> down side is some setups call it a proxy avoidance tool
[02:23] <cyberanger> but that's what the torrents will help fix
[02:26] <cyberanger> goal is to allow access to it 90% of the time, to 90% of everyone
[02:26] <cyberanger> by budget makes that mark, then I'll be stunned
[02:38] <cyberanger> wrst: care for some openbox goodness in a few days
[02:40] <wrst> sure cyberanger :)
[02:41] <wrst> live cd or install ? I'm happy to do either
[02:41] <wrst> or both
[02:45] <vychune> o/
[02:46] <cyberanger> live for the moment
[02:46] <cyberanger> perhaps both down the road
[02:46] <wrst> cool cyberanger want to test in a VM or on real hardware?
[02:54] <cyberanger> I'm testing both, and planning to let anyone try it when I've got it on the server working
[02:54] <cyberanger> openbox geared to admin work, virus scans cheifly
[02:57] <cyberanger> but knowing me, it's any task that works better than windows, crammed as well as I can onto a 699MB cd
[02:57] <cyberanger> which is nearly all tasks I can think of ;-)
[03:00] <wrst> ha ha cool will be happy to try it out
[03:02] <cyberanger> I'd still like to get my mirror going, but I'm hoping this will help me learn some bandwidth management tricks
[03:03] <cyberanger> and learn a bit more about CDN's
[03:03] <cyberanger> not more theroy, but actual implementations
[03:04] <cyberanger> I got into linux for server knowlege, now I'm continuing down that road, always a new topic in linux
[03:04] <wrst> seems like the topics are limitless about like what you can do with it
[03:06] <cyberanger> exactly, it's like we've got all the flavors one could want, we just suggest everyone avoid the macintosh apple flavor, it's sorta stale
[03:26] <wrst> stale apples aren't good at all
[03:28]  * cyberanger wonders if wrst got the hidden joke in that
[03:28]  * cyberanger figures he did
[03:28] <wrst> :)
[03:29] <wrst> yep, cyberanger i'm heading to bed early I think catch you tomorrow
[03:33] <cyberanger> wrst: I ought to soon myself, lest I be tired at work
[03:33] <cyberanger> too tired, that is
[03:34] <wrst> same here, see you later cyberanger
[05:16] <Unit193> cyberanger: Added kon-boot to it?
[05:17] <cyberanger> kon-boot?
[05:18] <Unit193> It's nice if you're fixing windows computers (Login without knowing the pass. I'll get the site)
[05:18] <Unit193> http://www.piotrbania.com/all/kon-boot/
[05:18] <cyberanger> ah, usually just use chntpw
[05:19] <Unit193> That will kill the pass, this will only bypass
[05:20] <cyberanger> yeah, and I presume what it's doing (based on the linux tricks of similar nature) is sticking it in a chroot of sorts, and meddling with files
[05:20] <cyberanger> for windows, primarlly the Registry files, SAM for login authentication
[05:20] <cyberanger> sounds like one to add
[05:21] <Unit193> Sounds more like kernel ram mods
[05:21] <cyberanger> usually we just blank it, no point hiding that we got in and fixed it, less they try and hide our payday
[05:22] <cyberanger> that's another idea on how, there are a few ways
[05:25] <Unit193> I didn't know of any others that don't modify the system
[05:27] <Unit193> And I'll try it if you push it out...
[05:36] <cyberanger> just gotta get it done, it will be pushed out
[13:33] <wrst> chris4585: looks like lots of GNOME 3 extensions are starting to get out in the wild www.webupd8.org has a few blogs on them
[14:43] <wrst> morning Xpistos
[14:43] <Xpistos> Mornings
[14:49] <wrst> Xpistos: have a good weekend?
[14:49] <Xpistos> long
[14:49] <wrst> that's the glory of it isn't it?
[15:07] <vychune> good morning
[15:40] <Xpistos> hey vychune
[15:40] <vychune> how ya doing this morning
[15:47] <cyberanger> very well, thanks for asking vychune
[15:47] <cyberanger> haow about you?
[15:47] <vychune> finally youre doing good
[15:51] <cyberanger> fairly good ;-)
[15:51] <cyberanger> always leave room for improvement ;-)
[15:54] <vychune> ikr
[16:59] <Xpistos> #join /facebook
[16:59] <Xpistos> DUH!
[17:00] <vychune> nope im never making that mistake again
[17:07] <wrst> hey vychune, cyberanger
[17:08] <vychune> morning wrst
[17:21] <vychune> hows the bot
[17:53] <wrst> vychune: no time yet might mess with it today sometime :)
[17:58] <vychune> oh ok
[18:04] <cyberanger> lol Xpistos
[18:04] <cyberanger> hey wrst
[18:07] <wrst> cyberanger: how's it going?
[18:50] <cyberanger> wrst: busy, work
[18:51] <wrst> that's good cyberanger
[18:51] <wrst> same here
[18:57] <cyberanger> wrst: indeed good, however being busy is mixed
[18:57] <wrst> mixed?
[19:04] <cyberanger> quicker burnout
[19:04] <cyberanger> I can handle it, but deadline pressure isn't a nice pressure
[20:08] <wrst> its good for you cyberanger ;)
[21:12]  * vychune was just taught a good lesson
[21:16] <cyberanger> wrst: true
[21:24] <Unit193> wrst: What bot did you go with?
[21:24] <wrst> none yet :)
[21:47] <electricus> wrst: i'm using macbuntu 10.10 now
[21:47] <vychune> thats great
[21:47] <electricus> compiz is botched in the 11.04.. i'm going to wait for those bugs to be addressed
[21:47] <wrst> macubuntu... hmm something about that doesn't set well with me electricus
[21:47] <electricus> ..but other than that.. i like the unity desktop environment
[21:47] <electricus> haha
[21:47] <wrst> electricus: i'm waiting until gnome 3 is useable in ubuntu before I worry with it
[21:48] <wrst> I love gnome 3
[21:48] <electricus> Macbuntu:  http://www.oslike.se/
[21:48] <electricus> it's pretty..what can i say
[21:49] <electricus> some mac dudes at church were totally freaked out..haha
[21:49] <electricus> they were amazed was more like it
[21:49] <vychune> when did they get a iso
[21:49] <electricus> and then i showed them the software center and games you can download.. and said it was all free!  there eyes popped out.. LOL
[21:51] <electricus> i don't know.. i just saw it.. but the 11.04 is still quirky with the minimize effect (magic lamp) i've heard is related to the latest compiz and patent infringement on mac's minimize
[21:51] <electricus> geesh
[21:54] <wrst> electricus: I don't think 11.04 is really meant to be stable or to have all the kinks worked out I think its more to get it into the wild to get all the kinks found
[21:54] <electricus> hmm. it was just released last month right?
[21:54] <wrst> yes
[21:56] <electricus> it's pretty sweet.. they're copying mac osx pretty much except the dock is squares on the left
[21:57] <wrst> electricus: I don't really know if that is soemthing that I'm proud of or not, I'm really liking gnome 3
[21:58] <electricus> so what is the deal with gnome3?  is ubuntu going to ship with it in the future?
[21:58] <wrst> electricus: if I'm not mistaken unity will use gtk 3 in 11.10 so you can run gnome 3  and unity side by side
[21:59] <electricus> that's cool
[22:05] <wrst> electricus: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/gnome-shell-is-finally-available-in.html
[22:05] <electricus> can you download 11.10 now?
[22:05] <electricus> i guess not
[22:07] <wrst> electricus: you can possibly, or just install 11.04 and upgrade it
[22:07] <wrst> actually I think until the first alpha that is the procedure but its easy to do
[22:07] <electricus> i don't think it's available.. but that blog sounds like it is.. confusing
[22:08] <electricus> ok.. i found it:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[22:10] <wrst> ahh ok so it is electricus, you can start with it just as soon as 11.04 was released without the cd, think you just edit the soruces.lst like in debian
[22:11] <electricus> ya. .but i'm just going to wait i think
[22:11] <electricus> i like 10.10 ok enough
 electricus: if I'm not mistaken unity will use gtk 3 in 11.10 so you can run gnome 3  and unity side by side
[22:13] <chris4585> that is correct ^ its already possible in 11.10
[22:13] <wrst> yep chris4585
[22:13] <electricus> hmm is anyone in here using 11.10?
[22:13] <electricus> if so, how stable is it?
[22:13] <chris4585> electricus, its not even alpha 1
[22:13] <wrst> makes me want to go ahead and start using 11.10... i know officially we shoudl be calling it by its code name but i'm just going to say 11.10 :)
[22:14] <chris4585> I don't like its code name...
[22:14] <wrst> but electricus generally things go... decent atleast with a few breakages
[22:14] <wrst> me either chris4585
[22:14] <chris4585> sometime I think I will actually upgrade to 11.10
[22:14] <wrst> but I don't like 11.04's interface so I will trade taht for a crappy code name
[22:16] <chris4585> lol
[22:16] <chris4585> I'm going to backup my stuff, then try and upgrade and I doubt it will go well but I have nothing to lose
[22:19] <electricus> haha.. i wouldn't even mess with it yet:  http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/ubuntu-1110-oneiric-ocelot-daily-builds.html
[22:19] <wrst> chris4585, electricus up until atleast alpha 1 I would go with upgrading 11.04
[22:19] <wrst> If i really wanted to try it
[22:20] <electricus> 11.04 is fine except for compiz being a little buggy
[22:21] <chris4585> electricus, I think upgrading will result in something better, besides I'll do my own repairs
[22:21] <electricus> could you upgrade to 11.04 without upgrading compiz?
[22:22] <electricus> i would do that if i could
[22:23] <chris4585> electricus, you can downgrade compiz in 11.04, I believe webupd8 did an article on that
[22:23] <electricus> ok. cool
[22:24] <chris4585> it really annoys me about compiz... it seems with every release the default settings in compiz get crappier and crappier...
[22:25] <chris4585> before view port used to work flawlessly with no editing, so did zoom..
[22:30] <Unit193> Would you be looking for: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/get-emerald-to-work-in-ubuntu-1104.html ?
[22:31] <chris4585> Unit193, no I seem to remember there being a specific one for compiz
[22:31] <chris4585> it was either webupd8 or omgubuntu
[22:32] <chris4585> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/how-to-downgrade-to-compiz-086-in.html
[22:33] <chris4585> Warning: the instructions below are for the classic Ubuntu desktop session. This will remove Unity! Further more, this is experimental (and reverting the changes is a bit complicated and may not work exactly as described in this post) so use it at your own risk!
[22:33] <Unit193> omgubuntu is a little to fanboy for me... (And a little annoying to the devs)
[22:35] <cyberanger> unit193 agreed
[22:39] <Unit193> They post a link to 64bit Lubuntu dev test (At best) And just about killed the guys server...
[22:47] <chris4585> well lubuntu is popular.. lol
[22:47] <chris4585> I think it deserves a bit more respect
[23:06] <electricus> thanks chris4585
[23:08] <chris4585> electricus, np
[23:10] <chris4585> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615537/
[23:13] <chris4585> apparently to actually upgrade to the new release you have to do 'update-manager -d'
[23:13] <chris4585> figured gksu would have worked heh


[01:23] <infinity> janimo: Ooo, shiny, a 3.5.0 armadaxp kernel?
[01:25] <infinity> janimo: Any reason that went to the PPA instead of the archive?
[04:38] <infinity> janimo: And a followup question to the above, did you want that copied to the archive?
[06:35] <hrw> ogra_: aptitude merge was done long time ago. during weekend it was review/sponsored/uploaded
[07:25] <Rasperin> Hey guys, I'm trying to get video playback with my pandaboard ES, I heard this was a better platform then the old pandaboards but every OS I install on it has serious performance issues.
[07:25] <Rasperin> Is there a way to squeak better performance out of this? I've tried Linaro Ubuntu and Android, I'm switching to a usb 2.0 boot harddrive
[07:25] <Rasperin> but it looks like the software not the hardware is rendering 3d, I know people got smooth playback with the old pandaboard and linaro, is there a way to get the graphics drivers from TI or anything like that?
[10:43] <xranby> rsalveti: first great screenshots of 3d working nice on the pandaboard..
[10:43] <xranby> encouragins to see
[10:44] <xranby> well i tested to boot up my own pandaboard and installed the latest drivers offered by "jokey" .. something installed but it did not get connected all the way to silicon http://paste.ubuntu.com/1156993/
[10:45] <xranby> running quantal
[10:45] <ogra_> forget quantal until the new drivers are uploaded
[10:47] <xranby> ogra_: ok well cant help it.. i have to try it before its stable.. will try the 3.5 kernel and use the precise drivers     in hope to see http://lockerz.com/s/236484513
[10:47] <xranby> :)
[10:48] <RoyK> xranby: where?
[10:49] <xranby> RoyK:  (17:17:33) robclark: this omap ppa for precise plus this kernel works fine w/ unity3d: http://people.freedesktop.org/~robclark/try9
[10:49] <lilstevie> if only nvidia would provide us with a nice working driver :(
[10:49] <ogra_> xranby, i'd rather use rsalveti's packageds than the precise ones ;)
[10:49] <ogra_> i guess there is a PPA somewhere
[10:49] <RoyK> xranby: thanks - gotta try that when I get back home :)
[10:50] <xranby> ogra_: i hope so. i was hoping rsalveti would say.. hey use my secret ppa at location X)
[10:51] <ogra_> xranby, well, patience will help too, it has to be uploaded this week (feature freeze coming)
[10:52] <xranby> RoyK: good luck
[10:53] <RoyK> thanks
[10:54] <RoyK> xranby: should this work with precise, or should I upgrade to quantal?
[10:54] <xranby> RoyK: honesly i do not know
[10:54] <xranby> i have not tested it yet
[10:54] <ogra_> the shots are from the quantal development drivers ... they arent uploaded yet
[10:55] <ogra_> but will ... during the week
[10:56] <xranby> RoyK: to get the nice result shown in rsalveti screen shots ogra_'s advice is the best.. be patient and wait for the upload
[10:56] <xranby> to get something working today with a high chance of breaking things use the link i posted
[10:57] <RoyK> :)
[11:05] <xranby> ogra_: the "unaccelerated" experience on the omap4 is amazinly snappy in quantal.. running the lubuntu desktop and it flies
[11:05] <xranby> great progress
[11:05] <ogra_> yeah, same on the ac100 :)
[11:06] <ogra_> the accelerated expirience with unity running isnt so great i heard though
[11:06] <xranby> if i only can get away from my opengl es addiction ;)
[11:06] <ogra_> i.e. massively limits your video playback framerate to have compositing on
[11:07] <xranby> ogra_: how is it imagined to get solved?
[11:07] <xranby> can unity get re-engineered to fix this limitation?
[11:08] <xranby> for example is someone working on temporally disable composition if openmax is running
[11:08] <xranby> ?
[11:08] <ogra_> no idea, i was even surprised by the llvmpipe as default switch ...
[11:08] <ogra_> i guess you have to ask the unity guys
[11:09] <xranby> lovely, have you send them a pandaboard?
[11:09] <xranby> to test their work on?
[11:09] <ogra_> i think they have one ... but that wont help ... upstream llvmpipe isnt ready on arm afaik
[11:10] <ogra_> i fear panda will have to use swrast (and fail with that)
[11:12] <xranby> i will install the package and check, by running some 3d fluff to see if it is working on the panda
[11:12] <xranby> its only a libGL replacement after all
[11:12] <ogra_> the grand plan is to ship pvr by default though
[11:13] <xranby> this is plan B
[11:13] <xranby> if all else fail
[11:13] <xranby> of course getting the accelerated bits in would be great
[11:13] <ogra_> well, plan B wuold be more intresting on all the other arm images we have
[11:13] <azert> hello there
[11:13] <ogra_> plan A has to happen in any case for the panda
[11:13] <azert> anyone own beagleboard ?
[11:13] <xranby> the nice thing about llvm-pipe is ofcourse that it supports all desktop GL applications
[11:14] <ogra_> but only runs on SSE currently
[11:14] <xranby> i imagine that the accelerated bits only supports opengl es
[11:40] <xranby> ogra_: you are correct as allways. its only using the traditional old and slow mesa sw rasterizer
[11:41] <ogra_> well, i was just guessing :)
[11:42] <xranby> nice guessed then!
[12:18] <janimo> infinity, I wanted to make 100% sure it builds in the archives not only on my machine. And then I'd want it copied sure, but no meta yet so others can test too
[12:18] <janimo> infinity, this is a code-drop from Marvell, my attempt at forward porting the 3.2 patches did resulted in a kernel that hangs while calling init
[12:18] <janimo> did result
[13:05] <rsalveti> xranby: hopefully we should have the packages at a ppa today
[13:05] <rsalveti> there's a fix  at the kernel package that needs to land as well, bug 1038846
[13:05] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1038846 in linux-ti-omap4 "linux-headers pkg for omap4 doesn't include omap_drv/drm headers" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038846
[13:05] <rsalveti> ppisati: ^
[13:15] <ppisati> rsalveti: i fwded to the ukml, but it's in master next
[13:15] <ppisati> rsalveti: i'll cut a new relase with what we have now + that fix
[13:18] <rsalveti> great, already got applied at master-next
[13:18] <rsalveti> ppisati: awesome, thanks!
[13:18] <rsalveti> just because without it we can't install the pvr-omap4 package
[13:19] <xranby> rsalveti: ok, thumbs up, thank you for processing all the bits and packages through the grinder
[13:20] <xranby> rsalveti: have the drivers been tested on both old and new pandaboards?
[13:20] <xranby> i got a rev A here (assuming its the old panda)
[13:20] <xranby> A1
[13:21] <rsalveti> xranby: yup
[13:25] <ppisati> rsalveti: does pvr-omap4 need anything else to work properly with 3.5?
[13:25] <rsalveti> ppisati: not at this point, it worked just fine with 3.5
[13:25] <rsalveti> unfortunately I got 2 freezes while testing, similar to what I was having with 3.4
[13:26] <rsalveti> not sgx specific
[13:26] <rsalveti> didn't get any logs at the serial, just stopped completely, without blinking leds
[13:26] <rsalveti> that's with a panda es
[13:43] <sveinse> plymouth is rather married into the bootup process, right? I tried to remove it but mountall depends on it. Does it do anything except provide splash? What should I do if I don't want any of that at all?
[13:44] <xnox> sveinse: it prints *all* of the login text as well....
[13:45] <xnox> s/login/boot/
[13:46] <sveinse> xnox: ok.. I added console= to my serial port and I think I got all of the boot output (fsck and such). It's plymouth that does that?
[13:47] <xnox> sveinse: i am not sure. but my experience was that, that is the case
[13:47] <sveinse> Point is: I have plymouth installed, but no themes. Now initramfs does not contain plymouth binaries, just some init-top and init-bottom scripts which complain upon boot.
[13:52] <sveinse> I'm tempted to not use plymouth at all since I have all the output I want, yet for some reason mountall depends on plymouth, so some connection/requirement must there be
[13:55] <sveinse> ah, it's a requirement to mountall because mountall pass progress to the plymouth daemon
[13:56] <ogra_> sveinse, imagine libplymouth as a poor mans dbus :)
[13:57] <sveinse> yep.
[13:57] <ogra_> it lives between the UI and the backend, so mountall is heavily tied into it for any kind of user communication
[13:57] <xnox> ogra_: i'd rather imagine btrfs giving me a pony
[13:57] <ogra_> haha
[13:57] <lilstevie> lol
[13:58] <sveinse> It seems its not in ubuntu's use cases to not have any plymouth themes installed, since its complains without one
[13:59] <sveinse> Having no plymouth theme installed, will result in having no plymouth[d] installed in initramfs, yet they are referred to by the init-top and init-bottom plymouth scripts :P
[14:00] <ogra_> the init-top and init-bottom scripts are parts of the plymouth package, they are gone if the package is gone
[14:00] <ogra_> and plymouth should force a rebuild of the initrd from its postinst
[14:01] <sveinse> no, you can't rid yourself of plymouth. Its a dep of mountall. So you have it either way. However if you don't have any themes installed, no ply bin end up in the initramfs, but their init-* script does
[14:02] <sveinse> in all cases, plymouth does not bother me. point is. Is there a theme I should use if I want text/serial output only. No hazzle dazzle.
[14:03] <sveinse> (I'm optimizing a product for faster bootups...)
[14:04] <lilstevie> I wish I could get it to display the splash :p
[14:05] <lilstevie> I have to press the down or up arrow for it to appear :/
[14:07] <sveinse> Well, we did write a simple plymouth theme showing a simple splash (no progress & stuff). and it works. However, plymouth assumes that the text console and the splash device are the same, so for embedded products where you want everything on the serial port, while keeping the screen with a splash, it not easy with plymouth AFAIK.
[14:48] <sveinse> Are there any tools for recording the timestamps during boot. I want to see what the system is spending time on while booting.
[14:49] <lilstevie> sveinse, dmesg shows time since boot
[14:50] <lilstevie> or well time since kernel start
[14:50] <ogra_> and there is indeed bootchart ...
[14:50] <stgraber> sveinse: you may want to look at bootchart
[14:50] <sveinse> lilstevie: Well, dmesg only shows kernel events. Theres a 20 second delay between the last kernel message during boot and our application start
[14:50] <stgraber> oh well, ogra_ was faster ;)
[14:50] <ogra_> heh
[14:51] <sveinse> bootchart, thanks both of you. I'll look at it
[15:11] <sveinse> I'm asking to make sure: Is there any way to get plymouth to log to a serial console, while displaying a splash on the fb?
[15:19] <ogra_> no
[15:19] <ogra_> plymouth will not allow a splash as soon as console= is set
[15:19] <ogra_> (silly upstream decision)
[15:19]  * xnox wants dual screen support for plymouth: splash on the left, console messages on the right.
[15:20]  * ogra_ wants two splashes ...
[15:20] <ogra_> i got a triple screen setup ;)
[15:20] <infinity> janimo: Is this Marvell code drop audited and all the non-free stuff removed?  I spent a lot of time license checking and removing junk from the old source.
[15:20] <janimo> infinity, they say so, and that the code can be published
[15:20] <ogra_> heh
[15:20] <janimo> I pushed it onto zinc anyway
[15:20] <jocarter> I want a splash screen on one screen, logs in the middle, and a youtube video of cats on the 3rd one
[15:21] <infinity> janimo: Their last code drop could be published, that didn't make it Free (and it wasn't).
[15:21] <janimo>  what's worst that can happen?
[15:22] <infinity> janimo: The worst that happens is that we lie to people and give them things they can't modify or redistribute legally. :P
[15:22] <janimo> well, if someone notices we can fix whatever is wrong :)
[15:23] <ogra_> Aug 20 17:12:35 ubuntu acpid: 1 rule loaded
[15:23] <ogra_> Aug 20 17:12:35 ubuntu acpid: waiting for events: event logging is off
[15:23]  * ogra_ glares at his beagleboard
[15:23] <janimo> it's not like we reveal secrets or offer non-free but irreplacable code
[15:23] <janimo> small mistakes at worst imo :)
[15:23]  * sveinse wants splash on screen with console on serial port
[15:23] <lilstevie> ogra_, wait... console= means no splash? so then on tegra we are screwed
[15:23] <ogra_> lilstevie, my saying :)
[15:23] <lilstevie> with that stupid bug where it dies unless we set it
[15:23] <ogra_> since months
[15:23] <lilstevie> :/
[15:23] <ogra_> not much we can do though
[15:24] <janimo> lilstevie, nvidia is supposed to be working on that bug already
[15:24] <lilstevie> janimo, yeah yeah, we'll see :p
[15:24] <sveinse> lilstevie: Yes it's like that. You get console though since getty runs. But you lose console output between kernel handing off to initramfs and until getty is run if you enable splash
[15:25] <infinity> janimo: Hrm?  No, no secrets, but there's plenty of "all rights reversed" code in their code drops with no license.  Even if they hand-wave and tell us we can distribute it (which their engineering department really can't tell us anyway), third parties definitely can't.
[15:26] <infinity> janimo: This isn't the sort of thing we should do the "well, we'll just ship it and wait for them to whine" thing with.  We put serious effort into cleansing that tree for 3.2, for good reason.
[15:26] <janimo> afaik the talks were among sales/whatever departments too or at least not just engineers
[15:27] <janimo> infinity, I had no idea 3.2 was assumed clean by them but cleansing was needed
[15:27] <GrueMaster> With Marvel, never assume anything.
[15:32] <lilstevie> wait
[15:32] <lilstevie> holy
[15:32] <lilstevie> apparently that bug is fixed for tegra3 already :p
[15:37] <sveinse> Tegra 2 does not have NEON, right. So no armhf? What about newer tegras?
[15:37] <ogra_> ??
[15:37] <ogra_> why would there be no armhf ?
[15:38] <sveinse> no float ops implemented in HW... I might well be misinformed. I though NEON and FPU was part of the same deal
[15:39] <ogra_> no
[15:40] <lilstevie> it is a pain to not have NEON but NEON and FPU are not mutually exclusive
[15:41] <sveinse> right. And FPU is generally implemented across the >=ARMv7 devices today?
[15:43] <lilstevie> is a requirement of armv7 AFAIK
[15:44] <sveinse> aha (while reading http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort/). ARM implements a VFP which is the FPU. And it poses an extra set of registers -- which is the same reason the EABI is different
[15:45] <sveinse> But from what I understand, the kernel is agnostic to armel/armhf, right? The VFP is never used for passing arguments to/from kernel?
[15:45] <infinity> sveinse: Right.
[15:46] <sveinse> excellent. That might help a lot... You see. If mgmt decides they want armhf in the next release, I need to figure out how to dist-upgrade armel -> armhf...
[15:46] <ogra_> LOL !
[15:46] <ogra_> now you made my day
[15:48] <sveinse> (It's always interesting to be the center point for laughing. Especially when you don't know why....)
[15:48] <lilstevie> dist-upgrade does not sound fun at all
[15:48] <lilstevie> like potentially broken.... everywhere
[15:48] <ogra_> well, currently the distro doesnt support that path withoutu tinkering a lot on the low level
[15:49] <sveinse> I think I'll have to construct some chroot jail with armel and let it stage the upgrade the main system
[15:49] <infinity> It's not something we support, period.  It's something you can make work in a very controlled environment, but you're not going to upgrading customer machines blind.
[15:49] <sveinse> No, I dont expect you to either
[15:50] <lilstevie> speaking of crossing armel/armhf, still haven't found a reason worth setting up multiarch
[15:50] <lilstevie> :p
[15:50] <infinity> Let me put it differently.  It's not something YOU will be able to support any more than we can.  Unless your machines are all a specific image with no extra packages.  And if they are, you can just re-image them armhf. :P
[15:50] <lilstevie> ok hud is starting to annoy me :/
[15:50] <jcrigby> ogra_, I need some assistance, it would be nice to get linaro-boot-utils pushed to quantal before ff
[15:50] <ogra_> lilstevie, shout at it ... that surely helps *g*
[15:51] <jocarter> ooh, it has voice recognition already?
[15:51] <ogra_> jcrigby, where is it ?
[15:51] <jcrigby> it is only in a ppa now,
[15:51] <ogra_> jocarter, only shout recognition yet :)
[15:51] <jcrigby> https://code.launchpad.net/~jcrigby/+recipe/linaro-boot-utils-daily
[15:51] <sveinse> is it possible to multiarch armel/armhf? I though the nature of the incompatabilities between the EABIs made them unable to multiarch
[15:51] <lilstevie> ogra_, I have had several cases where I am working away nicely in my terminal, accidentally trigger hud, and all of a sudden my sudo password has ended up in xchat :(
[15:51] <jocarter> ogra_: heh
[15:51] <infinity> sveinse: We can multiarch them, yes.
[15:52] <infinity> sveinse: We put a lot of effort into that.
[15:52] <ogra_> lilstevie, do you use focus-follows-mouse ?
[15:52] <infinity> sveinse: (And ABI incompatibility is the use-case for multiarch... i386 and amd64 are incompatible ABIs too...)
[15:52] <sveinse> infinity: right
[15:52] <lilstevie> ogra_, that shouldn't make a difference right? I run my terminal windows at full screen
[15:53] <ogra_> lilstevie, it makes a massive difference, unity isnt ready for FFM
[15:53] <infinity> lilstevie: Just re-bind the HUD hotkey to something you never press (mine is "pause"), and your life will be much better.
[15:53] <sveinse> infinity: Am I understanding that armel->armhf is not possible at all? (If not, I can save me the attempt)
[15:54] <infinity> sveinse: Multiarch cross-grading isn't something that's "possible" on more than a macihne-by-machine with insane amounts of effort and breakage basis.
[15:54] <infinity> sveinse: So, for someone who's wanting to attempt it to more than "their personal laptop that they're happy breaking", I'd call it impossible, yes.
[15:55] <lilstevie> ogra_, in any case I haven't changed the setting from default, I was considering it though, but if it will make it worse :p
[15:55] <ogra_> jcrigby, so are the source packages on https://code.launchpad.net/~linaro-maintainers/+archive/kernel/+packages in a state you want to have them released in ?
[15:55] <lilstevie> infinity, sounds like a good idea, while I like the idea of hud, I still haven't really used it
[15:56] <ogra_> jcrigby, signing and uploading them only takes me a few :)
[15:57] <infinity> lilstevie: If I still did a lot of graphic arts things, I could see it maybe being useful.  Or if I did office productivity type things.  But if you don't use complex applications with thousands of menu entries, the novelty wears off pretty quickly.  And the bugs become the only part that you notice. :P
[15:58] <lilstevie> infinity, I live in the command line
[15:58] <lilstevie> so yeah
[15:58] <lilstevie> not really much use
[15:59]  * ogra_ really doesnt get that acpid thing in his beagle boot
[15:59] <ogra_> i mean, i dont mind that we have it installed, by why the heck does it start ?!
[16:00] <jcrigby> ogra_, I believe so except for the funky version string
[16:01] <ogra_> jcrigby, yeah, looks a bit like a math exercise :)
[16:01] <lilstevie> anyway, I'm turning in for the night
[16:01] <lilstevie> later
[16:01] <ogra_> so pick a nicer version, put the source package somewhere and i'll upload
[16:02] <jcrigby> ogra_, ok thanks
[16:10] <sveinse> infinity: Thanks.  You'll have to excuse me for challenging armel->armhf upgrade feasability. I'm trying to measure the degree of "impossibleness". Not trivial is not the same as impossible. (A couple of years ago we were told cross building of armel deb package was impossible, but that turned out to be just non-trivial, but implementable.)
[16:11] <infinity> sveinse: Oh, yeah, no.  This is way beyond "not trivial" for anything other than a single system.  And the single system is something that would need excessive babysitting.
[16:12] <ogra_> you could write a babysitter ;)
[16:13] <sveinse> Well, in our case, if you babysit one, then you've handled all. All installed systems are *exactly* the same in respect of package composition
[16:14] <infinity> ogra_: You really couldn't.
[16:14] <infinity> ogra_: That's why it's not feasible.
[16:14] <infinity> sveinse: If they're identical, re-image.  Seriously.  You'll hate yourself less.
[16:14] <infinity> sveinse: Heck, that's a truism for dist-upgrading when not cross-grading too. :P
[16:15] <sveinse> infinity: This is an embedded device with no alternative boot. The only bootsource available is the sd-card (which we don't want customers to fiddle with). That's why I trying to hot-upgrade a running system
[16:17] <sveinse> For the fun of it: Here's how I hoped it would work: 1) deboostrap armel into a dir  2) chroot into jail. Bind mount system drive. Run debootstrap armhf over armel installation (which "resets" the list of installed packages). 3) reboot  4) finish install and install the set of packages needed on the system
[16:22] <sveinse> I have to leave. _ogra, infinity. Have a nice evening (or whatever TZ you're in)
[16:23] <ogra_> samei guess :)
[16:51] <GrueMaster> One way to handle the switch from armel to armhf is through a two-step reboot.  I'd have to diagram it out, then script it, but it is possible.  For an embedded system, it is a bit tricky, but that is what test environments are for.
[16:51] <GrueMaster> And it also depends on how the embedded system is layed out to begin with.
[16:53] <GrueMaster> Actually, I wonder if it could be done with netboot d-i & preseed?
[16:53]  * GrueMaster wishes he had free time to experiment with this idea.
[17:25] <jcrigby> ogra_, http://people.canonical.com/~jcrigby/linaro-boot-utils/
[17:41] <ogra_> bah, sigh
[17:41] <ogra_> since when does dpkg-buildpackage fail hard on a missing ubuntu maintainer address
[17:41] <ogra_> how silly
[17:49] <infinity> ogra_: Since forever.
[17:49] <infinity> ogra_: But it depends on if you have DEB_EMAIL set.
[17:49] <infinity> ogra_: Which is a weird heuristic.
[17:49] <ogra_> infinity, no, im sure it never killed the build
[17:49] <infinity> ogra_: It's done this for ages.
[17:49] <ogra_> it was a warning
[17:49] <infinity> (And I actually quite appreciate it)
[17:49]  * ogra_ doesnt
[17:50] <infinity> ogra_: No, really, it's hard failed like this for quite a long time.  Unless you've been building all your source packages on an ancient release for the last few years.
[17:50] <ogra_> i like to maintain the packages i'm upstream for in ubuntu ...
[17:50] <ogra_> now, i'm in the lucky position to have an ubuntu.com address ... others arent
[17:50] <infinity> I maintain my Debian packages in Ubuntu too.  That's not a problem, unless you try to upload something with an ubuntu revision but no ubuntu maintainer.
[17:51] <ogra_> well, it breaks for sponsored linaro uploads
[17:51] <infinity> It doesn't "break" at all, it's working as intended.
[17:52] <infinity> Just run update-maintainer(1) and be done with it.
[17:52] <ogra_> jcrigby, adding a watch file would be nice, the standards version is one behind and apparently you need to run update-maintainer as infinity suggests above
[17:53] <jcrigby> ogra_, just catching up, my xchat lost connection just after I sent link
[17:55] <ogra_> yeap, saw that
[18:33] <jcrigby> ogra_, I fixed the standards version and maintainer.  I did not add a watch file because after searching I'm still unsure how to do that part.  I pushed the result to http://people.canonical.com/~jcrigby/linaro-boot-utils/


[15:00] <rbasak> o/
[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:00] <slashd> o/
[15:01] <rafaeldtinoco> o/
[15:02] <ddstreet> o/
[15:02] <sil2100> Do we have a selected chair for today?
[15:03] <rafaeldtinoco> dont think so
[15:03]  * gaughen watches
[15:03] <sil2100> Should I start then? Or are there any other volunteers?
[15:03]  * rcj watches
[15:04]  * rbasak is in a concurrent meeting, so would prefer not to chair
[15:04]  * rafaeldtinoco in the same meeting
[15:04] <ddstreet> I'm on vacation on my phone so I will mostly watch/listen
[15:05] <sil2100> Let me start then
[15:05] <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[15:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar  9 15:05:50 2020 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:05] <teward> o/
[15:06] <teward> sorry network issues
[15:06] <teward> (just fixed them heh)
[15:06] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:07] <sil2100> I think the only sensible action item from previous meetings is the fact that the vote announcement has finished and we have new DMB members o/
[15:07] <rbasak> We need to ratify/select our ongoing meeting schedule
[15:07] <teward> indeed we do (thank you to all who gave me a vote of confidence!)
[15:07] <rbasak> And welcome to the new DMB members :)
[15:07] <sil2100> Welcome o/
[15:07] <rafaeldtinoco> thank you!
[15:08] <rafaeldtinoco> =)
[15:08] <ddstreet> Thnx o/
[15:08] <sil2100> Let's get to the meeting schedule during AOB
[15:08] <teward> agreed
[15:08] <sil2100> Anyway, I'll clean up the agenda page to clean up those items that make no longer sense (from Review of previous action items)
[15:08] <sil2100> Let's move on for now
[15:09] <sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
[15:09] <sil2100> We have two applicants today
[15:09] <sil2100> I see rcj is here already, cascardo are you also here?
[15:09] <cascardo> I am around for any questions
[15:10] <sil2100> Ok, so let's proceed in order per the agenda page then
[15:10] <sil2100> #subtopic Thadeu Lima de Souza Cascardo for makedumpfile, kexec-tools, crash PPU
[15:10] <sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThadeuCascardo/KdumpUploadApplication
[15:10] <sil2100> cascardo: hello! Could you briefly introduce yourself?
[15:11] <cascardo> hello, I work on the kernel team, have been a DD for a while, and have been maintaining kdump-tools/makedumpfile for a couple of years, IIRC
[15:13] <rbasak> cascardo: do you have upload access to anything in Ubuntu right now, or would this be the first time you can upload to Ubuntu without sponsorship?
[15:13] <cascardo> rbasak: I can upload the linux set of packages
[15:14] <rbasak> Ah - granted by the kernel team DMB delegation presumably? When were you given access to that?
[15:14] <rbasak> And do you have any other upload access apart from the linux set?
[15:14] <sil2100> DMB members: please proceed with questions, if you have any
[15:14]  * rafaeldtinoco looks at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kexec-tools/1:2.0.16-1ubuntu1
[15:14] <cascardo> around early 2018
[15:15] <cascardo> rbasak: only the linux set
[15:15] <rbasak> OK, thanks
[15:17] <slashd> I don't have questions, I've worked closely with cascardo in a couple of occasions.
[15:17]  * rbasak is still looking
[15:18]  * teward is still looking as well
[15:18] <teward> cascardo: this may sound like an obvious question since you're on the server team, but I notice in your application you indicate that you need to be more concervative on uploads to stable releases.  You also indicate more testing should be done.  ...
[15:19] <bdmurray> teward: he said he's on the kernel team
[15:19] <teward> ... do you have any intention of spearheading the 'additional testing' you indicate should be done?  And how would PPU rights faciliate that testing compared to what you currently have access to?
[15:19] <teward> bdmurray: the ... indicated a truncation, please permit me to finish my sentences ;)
[15:20] <teward> s/server team/kernel team/
[15:20] <teward> E:NeedThirdCoffee :)
[15:20] <teward> (sorry for the mistype_
[15:20] <cascardo> teward: yeah, I would like to spearhead that, add additional testing to those packages so we can find out when they stop working for new kernels, and be more active in backporting new versions
[15:20] <rbasak> cascardo: at the moment, would any regular upload to Ubuntu for your requested PPU packages be acceptable, or are there any restrictions?
[15:20] <cascardo> the PPU rights would not facilitate working on that additional testing, but would allow me to more quickly get those fixes in Ubuntu
[15:21] <cascardo> rbasak: sorry, I didn't understand the question, what do you mean by regular uploads? sponsored uploads?
[15:24] <rafaeldtinoco> cascardo: he means today I suppose .. would exist any blocker if you wanted to upload it today ?
[15:24] <rafaeldtinoco> (he is talking in a meeting I'm listening to, trying to help)
[15:26] <cascardo> I am supposing you mean someone else doing the uploads, I haven't had issues with that, so, in principle, no restrictions
[15:26] <rafaeldtinoco> cascardo: let's say you want to do a upload to kdump-tools in focal today
[15:26] <rafaeldtinoco> what are the things you would not be able to do ? are you aware ?
[15:27] <cascardo> well, since we are at feature freeze, I would need to get it past the SRU queue to get it into focal-proposed
[15:28] <rafaeldtinoco> yep =)
[15:28] <rafaeldtinoco> i dont have any questions, i was just finishing rbasak's question
[15:28] <ddstreet> cascardo are you subscribed, directly or indirectly, to all new bugs for these packages?  If not, are you willing to subscribe yourself and triage and/or own new bugs?
[15:28] <cascardo> and by feature freeze, it means I should not introduce new features, but mostly fixes, closing bugs
[15:28] <cascardo> ddstreet: I am currently subscribed to makedumpfile, and I have no problems being subscribed to the other two (if I am not already)
[15:29] <ddstreet> Thanks, no more q from me
[15:29] <sil2100> Any other questions?
[15:29] <rbasak> o/
[15:29] <rbasak> cascardo: I was asking about Focal, which isn't a stable release yet.
[15:29] <rbasak> So no SRU queue involvement?
[15:30] <teward> i was about to ask that myself heh
[15:30] <cascardo> rbasak: there is SRU queue involvement right now because of Feature Freeze, if I understand correctly
[15:30] <rbasak> cascardo: my question is about making sure you understand Ubuntu development process
[15:30] <cascardo> before feature freeze, I could just upload to focal-proposed
[15:30] <cascardo> that is my understanding
[15:30] <rbasak> cascardo: do you know where to go if you need a feature freeze exception, and where that process is documented?
[15:30] <teward> but that's not the SRU queue
[15:32] <sil2100> cascardo: yeah, so it's just a naming thing, the SRU queue is how we specifically call the queue for stable series - there is a focal queue but we don't name it like that
[15:32] <cascardo> it's an upload queue
[15:32] <sil2100> cascardo: exactly
[15:33] <cascardo> and are they reviewed by a different team?
[15:33] <sil2100> cascardo: and for Feature Freeze it's just a 'soft lock', so things do not go to the upload queue just yet
[15:34] <cascardo> from what I can read, the feature freeze exception would involve an ACK on a bug by the release team, by CCing ubuntu-release
[15:35] <cascardo> and I would follow that for minor version releases that include only bug fixes just to be on the safe side
[15:36] <cascardo> at least until I build enough confidence that my judgement on those is aligned with the release team
[15:39] <rbasak> I think it might be better for you to continue checking with your current sponsors for these kinds of exceptional cases, whether your application today is approved or not.
[15:39] <rbasak> Waiting for the release team will take a much longer time I expect.
[15:39] <cascardo> that makes sense
[15:39] <sil2100> Any other questions?
[15:40] <rbasak> cascardo: let's move on from feature freeze. Can you tell me about proposed migration? If you do an upload and you see that it is stuck in the proposed pocket and not moving to the release pocket, what would you do?
[15:40] <cascardo> I would go through the excuses update page, find out what is the problem for migration
[15:40] <cascardo> sometimes it happens because bugs are not verified, so I would request for verification once more, or do them by myself
[15:41] <rbasak> To be clear, my question is about the development release again, not the stable release.
[15:41] <cascardo> sometimes it happens because of test failures on ADT, so I would investigate those, and try to fix them
[15:41] <rbasak> OK, thanks. No more questions.
[15:41] <teward> i have one question following rbasak's.
[15:42] <teward> and your response.
[15:42] <teward> other than the excuses page, where else can you get information about what may be holding up a package or might be affecting proposed migration?
[15:44] <cascardo> I am not familiar with other tools, though I looked it up and just found out about the proposed-migration script, though I don't know where to find it
[15:45] <teward> no more questions on my end.
[15:45] <rafaeldtinoco> cascardo: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kexec-tools/+publishinghistory
[15:45] <rafaeldtinoco> just 1 example
[15:45] <rafaeldtinoco> on where to get current migration status
[15:45] <rafaeldtinoco> and publishing history
[15:46] <sil2100> Ok, I think we're done with questions then?
[15:46] <cascardo> okay, I used it before to get hold of older versions not in the archive anymore
[15:47] <sil2100> Let's vote in this case o/
[15:47] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[15:47] <sil2100> #vote Granting cascardo PPU rights for makedumpfile, kexec-tools and crash
[15:47] <meetingology> Please vote on: Granting cascardo PPU rights for makedumpfile, kexec-tools and crash
[15:47] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:48] <rafaeldtinoco> +1
[15:48] <meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
[15:50] <slashd> +1
[15:50] <meetingology> +1 received from slashd
[15:51] <sil2100> +0 (I am confident in cascardo's packaging skills, but the answers to archive/release related questions made me feel a bit worried, so for now my vote will be abstaining)
[15:51] <meetingology> +0 (I am confident in cascardo's packaging skills, but the answers to archive/release related questions made me feel a bit worried, so for now my vote will be abstaining) received from sil2100
[15:51] <rbasak> -1 reasons to follow
[15:51] <meetingology> -1 reasons to follow received from rbasak
[15:51] <teward> -1 also reasons to folow
[15:51] <meetingology> -1 also reasons to folow received from teward
[15:52] <rbasak> I have no concerns about the quality of your work in itself, but do think your understanding of processes in the Ubuntu development release is quite muddled. I think you'd benefit from the continued supervision of a sponsor for the time being. Some of my questions covered more exceptional circumstances that you might not have encountered yet, so this might seem a little unfair, but it seems to me
[15:52] <rbasak> that with a muddled understanding you are likely to unwittingly walk into a conflict with expectations from others when they will inevitably arise, and so remaining under the guidance of a sponsor makes sense. I hope that with some more experience or reading through various bits of documentation you will be ready to reapply soon.
[15:53] <sil2100> ddstreet: are you still around to vote?
[15:53] <ddstreet> +0 as I'm traveling and my vote would not change the outcome
[15:53] <meetingology> +0 as I'm traveling and my vote would not change the outcome received from ddstreet
[15:54] <teward> I do not question your work quality, however like rbasak says, I think your understanding of the processes in the current dev release are incomplete or confused.  I also believe that some of your statements and understanding of the tools is concerning, and additional guidance in those tools is warranted.  To that end, the confused understanding of the tools and the processes are likely to make you run into provlems as they arise...
[15:54] <sil2100> Ok, I think we will need tsimonq2's vote in this case
[15:55] <sil2100> Who does not seem to be present today
[15:55] <teward> ... especially with the expectations of others or the Release/dev teams, and continued ongoing guidance from a sponsor is warranted.  I also encourage you to inquire with your sponsors about things that you may or may not be sure about even if you are almost certain you are correct, to act as a sounding board to point out any mistakes in processes, etc. you have.
[15:55] <sil2100> #endvote
[15:55] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Granting cascardo PPU rights for makedumpfile, kexec-tools and crash
[15:55] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:2 Abstentions:2
[15:55] <meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
[15:56] <sil2100> Cliffhanger! Guess we'll have to contact tsimonq2 somehow and make him vote, or carry this over to the next meeting
[15:56] <teward> sil2100: i propose we bring that vote to email and ask the non-present DMB members (tsimonq2 specifically) to cast their vote.
[15:56] <teward> since it can be... difficult... to get hold of tsimonq2 sometimes
[15:57] <RikMills> sil2100: I will ping him on telegram
[15:57] <bdmurray> Could ddstreet vote after his travels?
[15:57] <RikMills> yes, circumstances mean tsimonq2 is not always instantly available at the moment
[15:58] <teward> (he's available in talking to me right now on telegram, as an aside)
[15:58] <sil2100> cascardo: sorry that we couldn't get your application resolved today - we'll try to do that ASAP and let you know the outcome
[15:59] <sil2100> This shouldn't take longer than till the next meeting
[15:59] <cascardo> sil2100: no problems, thanks everyone for reviewing the application
[15:59] <teward> sil2100: given info in the other channel, and tsimonq2's statement to me, we will have SImon's vote within the hour, but for now I say we move this one along in the "follow up" items to check up with next meeting.
[15:59] <tsimonq2> Hi.
[15:59] <teward> oh wait there's the SImon :P
[15:59] <sil2100> \o/
[15:59] <cascardo> I find out that the questions were fairly raised, and, in the meantime, I hope I can get better graps of the exceptional processes
[15:59] <tsimonq2> I will have my vote within the hour.
[16:00] <tsimonq2> I hate DST.
[16:00] <sil2100> Ok, let's move on in the meantime so that rcj doesn't have to wait
[16:00] <sil2100> #subtopic Robert Jennings applying for livecd-rootfs PPU
[16:00] <sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rcj/PerPackageUploadLivecdRootfs
[16:00] <sil2100> rcj: o/
[16:00] <rcj> Hi, I work on a team developing and delivering Ubuntu images to public clouds.
[16:00] <rcj> These Ubuntu images are built using livecd-rootfs (ubuntu-cpc project) and I have been contributing to the package through sponsored uploads for several years.  This would be my first upload access in Ubuntu.
[16:01] <sil2100> Questions please o/
[16:02] <rbasak> bdmurray: as you're here and you have previously sponsored livecd-rootfs for rcj, any comment please?
[16:03] <rbasak> rcj: similar questions to you then I guess. What would you do if you want to make a feature change to livecd-rootfs in Focal at this point in the cycle?
[16:04] <bdmurray> I didn't get a chance to write an endorsement with travel, sprints and stuff like that. But I do endorse rcj's application. livecd-rootfs is kind of special as it isn't really used like a normal package but the cpc team does extensive testing of it.
[16:04] <tsimonq2> Alright, my vote on cascardo is -1 because I agree with rbasak that more thorough process knowledge would be beneficial.
[16:04] <tsimonq2> Apologies for being so brief.
[16:04] <rbasak> bdmurray: thanks!
[16:04] <tsimonq2> Thanks for attending cascardo, I'd love to see you apply again soon.
[16:04] <sil2100> tsimonq2: thanks for the vote!
[16:05] <tsimonq2> Now on to the current topic...
[16:05] <teward> rcj: I have one question, and this is probably a stupid one, but to confirm: this application is for *you yourself* and not your team, correct?
[16:05] <teward> there were a couple times you referenced "me and my team" so I want to clarify this point
[16:05] <sil2100> cascardo: be sure to re-apply soon though!
[16:05] <rcj> rbasak: If I needed to make a feature change in livecd-rootfs at this stage I would create a bug with MP outlining rationale for the change and risk subscribing ubuntu-release per FFE
[16:06] <rcj> teward: this is just for me.
[16:06] <rbasak> rcj: OK, thanks. What about if you wanted to make that change for Bionic?
[16:06] <tsimonq2> rcj: What's your favorite part about working with livecd-rootfs?
[16:07] <tsimonq2> I'm going somewhere with this. :P
[16:07] <rcj> rbasak: I'd SRU with the bug template to highlight testing requirements, impact, and regression potentials
[16:07] <tsimonq2> (after rbasak of course)
[16:07] <rcj> rbasak: that was a bit of a mess of an answer as I was reading the next question.  ...
[16:07] <tsimonq2> Apologies.
[16:08] <teward> rcj: thank you for clarifying, that was the first question and I wanted to make sure that we were on the same page (I had assumed it was just for you, but I needed that confirmed thanks!)
[16:08] <rcj> Once I had the SRU template in the bug and the MP I'd upload and get subscribe the sru team for r3eview
[16:08] <rcj> teward: np
[16:08] <rbasak> rcj: anything special for it being a feature change in the SRU, which is normally not permitted?
[16:10] <rcj> rbasak: yeah, so livecd-rootfs is an outlier here in that feature changes do get SRU'd back frequently unlike other packages in the archive which is documented on the SRU wiki for this package
[16:10] <rbasak> rcj: thanks. Do you have a link to that page please? I just looked and can't find one!
[16:10] <rcj> rbasak: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#livecd-rootfs
[16:11] <rbasak> Ah, gotcha, thanks.
[16:11] <sil2100> Ok, any other questions?
[16:12] <tsimonq2> See my above question.
[16:12] <sil2100> Ah, there is one indeed!
[16:12] <tsimonq2> rcj: What's your favorite part about working with livecd-rootfs?
[16:12] <sil2100> rcj: did you see tsimonq2's earlier question?
[16:12] <tsimonq2> That :)
[16:13] <teward> sorry i got a call for work, reading back and then seeing if I have any other questions.
[16:14] <tsimonq2> I have to make a small commute quickly.
[16:14] <rcj> tsimonq2: Favorite part of working on livecd-rootfs?  Well, it's fundamental to the work I do so anything I can do to make it better is a win.  The support for parallel, consistent LP image builds is fantastic.
[16:14] <tsimonq2> Thanks.
[16:15]  * rbasak has no more questions
[16:15] <tsimonq2> I'm ready to vote.
[16:15] <teward> no more questions from me, also ready to vote
[16:15] <rafaeldtinoco> im ready as well
[16:15] <sil2100> o/
[16:16] <sil2100> ddstreet: any questions? I guess you're travelling now, so maybe we'll just proceed if you don't mind
[16:17] <sil2100> Ok, let's vote
[16:17] <sil2100> #vote Granting rcj PPU rights for livecd-rootfs
[16:17] <meetingology> Please vote on: Granting rcj PPU rights for livecd-rootfs
[16:17] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[16:17] <tsimonq2> +1
[16:17] <meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
[16:17] <teward> +1
[16:17] <meetingology> +1 received from teward
[16:17] <sil2100> +1
[16:17] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[16:18] <gaughen> query rcj
[16:18] <gaughen> bah
[16:18] <sil2100> HAH
[16:18] <sil2100> ;)
[16:18] <rbasak> +1
[16:18] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[16:18] <rafaeldtinoco> +1 for being a ppu application and a *special* pkg - sru wise - that rcj is already familiar with based on merges pointed in his application wiki page. I see he seeks coredev in the future, but he also says "Make time for general distro work". I would encourage rcj to start doing this distro work sooner than later.
[16:18] <meetingology> +1 for being a ppu application and a *special* pkg - sru wise - that rcj is already familiar with based on merges pointed in his application wiki page. I see he seeks coredev in the future, but he also says "Make time for general distro work". I would encourage rcj to start doing this distro work sooner than later. received from rafaeldtinoco
[16:18] <gaughen> shush
[16:18] <teward> gaughen: i guess your / key is broken :P
[16:18] <tsimonq2> Agreed rafaeldtinoco.
[16:18] <sil2100> rafaeldtinoco: agreed!
[16:18] <teward> also agree with rafaeldtinoco
[16:18] <gaughen> :-)
[16:18] <sil2100> #endvote
[16:18] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Granting rcj PPU rights for livecd-rootfs
[16:18] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:18] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:19] <tsimonq2> gaughen: I assume it's to give rcj a congrats. ;)
[16:19] <sil2100> (ended vote already since +5 can not be overriden)
[16:19] <gaughen> you know it!
[16:19] <rcj> thank you everyone
[16:19] <sil2100> rcj: congratulations!
[16:19] <gaughen> and to tell him I was impressed with his answer on "favorite part"
[16:19] <tsimonq2> Congrats!
[16:19] <sil2100> Yeah, I guess my answer to the 'favorite part' would be "nothing"
[16:19] <rbasak> So the next steps are https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Actions_after_a_successful_application
[16:19] <sil2100> j/k of course, I love livecd-rootfs myself
[16:19] <gaughen> sil2100, lol
[16:20] <sil2100> rbasak: maybe someone
[16:20] <sil2100> uh
[16:20] <sil2100> rbasak: maybe someone from the new members could sign up for that?
[16:20] <sil2100> As a learning exercise?
[16:20] <rbasak> Sure. Any volunteers?
[16:20] <tsimonq2> sil2100: I wasn't looking for a valid answer as much as I was looking for an answer from someone who has thought about it. :P
[16:20] <rbasak> We'll then give that person two meeting actions (as per the docs)
[16:20] <teward> i'll be happy to announce the successful applicants
[16:20]  * tsimonq2 voluntells teward.
[16:21] <sil2100> #action teward to e-mail the relevant ML after the successful application
[16:21] <meetingology> ACTION: teward to e-mail the relevant ML after the successful application
[16:21] <rbasak> We still need to discuss the meeting schedule going forwards
[16:21] <sil2100> teward: will you also deal with granting the PPU?
[16:22] <teward> sil2100: not without guidance from an incumbent on what to send to whom, because I'm new to the board (the announcement email is the easy part)
[16:22] <rbasak> teward: it's all documented I hope!
[16:22] <rbasak> teward: where it isn't, feel free to ask me.
[16:22] <teward> ack
[16:23] <teward> rbasak: prepare for inbound question stream
[16:23] <rbasak> The announcement email also needs to go to a list of prescribed places
[16:23] <sil2100> Ok, assigning to teward then! Remember: feel free to ask whenever in doubt
[16:23] <sil2100> #action teward to adjust the ACLs for rcj's new PPU
[16:23] <meetingology> ACTION: teward to adjust the ACLs for rcj's new PPU
[16:23] <sil2100> Ok, moving on!
[16:23] <teward> yep, that's the plan.  gotta fix a switch that just died though here at work first, so 30-min break then lunch :P
[16:23] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[16:24] <sil2100> rbasak: can you lead the meeting schedule discussion?
[16:24] <rbasak> Sure
[16:24] <rbasak> So we've had problems with DMB member attendence in the past.
[16:24] <rbasak> It might be different with the new DMB.
[16:25] <rbasak> One suggestion is to ask all DMB members immediately after an election if they are happy with the current schedule, or if they'd like to change the schedule so they can attend.
[16:25] <rbasak> We do also have to consider the needs of applicants, of course, but if DMB members cannot attend then that clearly cannot work.
[16:26] <rbasak> So I'd like to have a vote to ratify the current schedule, which is every two weeks on a Monday, alternating between 1500 UTC and 1900 UTC, phasing set by today's meeting.
[16:26] <rbasak> If you expect to be able to make these meetings, please vote yes. Otherwise, please vote no, and we'll then discuss what we can do about changing the schedule.
[16:27] <rbasak> Ultimately it's down to us as a group. We can change our own schedule as we wish. Under the current rules, that means that if four of us vote +1 to change the schedule, it will change.
[16:27] <rbasak> Does this approach sound OK to everyone? Any questions?
[16:27] <rafaeldtinoco> sgtm
[16:27] <teward> yes for teh most part - there's a meeting in a month and a half I will be out that time for, details to folow because it could get canceled due to 'concerns' in the world.
[16:27] <sil2100> All good here, should I start the vote then?
[16:27] <teward> otherwise sounds good to me
[16:28] <rbasak> I think it's fine to miss the occasional meeting. We all have lives.
[16:28] <rbasak> But the expectation IMHO should be that we all expect to attend the majority of meetings.
[16:28] <rbasak> sil2100: please do
[16:28] <tsimonq2> +1
[16:29] <rafaeldtinoco> +1
[16:29] <teward> +1
[16:29] <sil2100> #vote Current DMB schedule to remain as-is
[16:29] <meetingology> Please vote on: Current DMB schedule to remain as-is
[16:29] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[16:29] <rbasak> +1
[16:29] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[16:29] <teward> +1
[16:29] <meetingology> +1 received from teward
[16:29] <tsimonq2> +1
[16:29] <sil2100> (please vote now ;) had issues with WORDS)
[16:29] <meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
[16:29] <sil2100> +1
[16:29] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[16:29] <rafaeldtinoco> +1
[16:29] <meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
[16:30] <slashd> +1
[16:30] <meetingology> +1 received from slashd
[16:30] <rbasak> OK so the current schedule is staying, but for the record it's probably useful to get everyone's votes.
[16:30] <sil2100> ddstreet: are you still aroundish to cast your vote? I guess we can query you for it later
[16:31] <rbasak> I guess we'll have to wait.
[16:31] <rbasak> But that's already helpful. Thanks everyone!
[16:31] <sil2100> Let's get in touch with him later, but yes, the timing will stay it seems
[16:31] <sil2100> #endvote
[16:31] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Current DMB schedule to remain as-is
[16:31] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[16:31] <meetingology> Motion carried
[16:32] <sil2100> Do we have anything else for today?
[16:32] <rbasak> If ddstreet can't make the current schedule, or if anyone's circumstances change, we can still the schedule.
[16:32] <rbasak> still *change* the schedule
[16:32] <rbasak> Nobody should feel that the current schedule is set in stone
[16:32] <sil2100> rbasak: exactly
[16:32] <sil2100> +1 to that
[16:32] <rbasak> And even if I can make the current schedule, if someone cannot, I'm still in favour of exploring changing it.
[16:32] <rbasak> That's all from me. Thanks!
[16:33] <sil2100> I think we're good then
[16:33] <sil2100> Since this meeting already took longer than expected, let's finish
[16:34] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[16:34] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar  9 16:34:02 2020 UTC.
[16:34] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-09-15.05.moin.txt
[16:34] <rbasak> sil2100: thank you for chairing!
[16:34] <sil2100> Thanks everyone! This was a very productive meeting
[16:34] <sil2100> I'll clean up the agenda page