[06:24] <potter_> ?
[10:19] <BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
[17:25] <MaxSan> I am baned from #ubuntu from some reason
[17:25] <MaxSan> any way I can find out why?
[17:27] <trism> MaxSan: I think you are supposed to ask in #ubuntu-ops
[17:43] <ikonia> did anyone in this channel talk to MaxSan ?
[17:43] <ikonia> and advise him to join #ubuntu-ops ?
[17:44] <trism> ikonia: yes sorry
[17:44] <ikonia> trism: ahhh no problem
[17:44] <ikonia> trism: and no need for sorry, it was the correct thing to do
[17:44] <ikonia> trism: thanks for letting us know
[17:44] <BluesKaj> not me , but IdleOne banned me around Christmas, but I don't miss the chat :)
[17:45] <ikonia> no no, thank you for confirming,
[17:45] <ikonia> it's my mistake, not yours, thanks trism


[01:13] <qwebirc98279> I am trying to install mythplugins, but it keeps getting stuck at the flash installation. Please help!
[01:15] <sabhain>  Hi,  what's the magic argument for mythfilldatabase to force it to pull the program data without updating the channel list?
[01:15] <sabhain> I really need it to stop resurrecting deleted channels based on the guide data.
[01:21] <skd5aner> sabhain: are you using schedules direct?
[01:21] <skd5aner> sabhain: if so, hide the channels there, and then once deleted in myth they'll never re-populate
[01:24] <skd5aner> sabhain: that's the correct way to do it... otherwise, i think you can use "--remove-new-channels"
[01:41] <sabhain> skd5aner: thanks.  Yes, using schedules direct, but have 3 different tuner types (just added a new one).
[01:41] <sabhain> Can I have multiple lineups at SD?
[01:41] <sabhain> all based on their existing?
[01:46] <sabhain> for example, i don't want my HD-PVR/STB combo to use channels that my HDHR's can use, so I delete them in the setup for the HD-PVR, but they keep coming back.  Schedules direct doesn't seem to let me add my digital lineup twice, and rename it.
[01:46] <skd5aner> sabhain: yes, you can have multiple listings on SD
[01:47] <skd5aner> sabhain: I have a listing for just my analog tuners, a listing for my HDPVR, and a listing for my HDHR
[01:47] <skd5aner> they each only provide the channels relavent to that particular tuner that would use it
[01:47] <sabhain> thats precisely my setup too.  The analogs are easy, as there's a separate lineup.
[01:47] <skd5aner> I believe you can have up to 4 lineups
[01:48] <sabhain> but how do you keep the HDHR and HDPVR apart if they have some of the same channels?
[01:48] <sabhain> are you using Antenna for the HDHR?
[01:48] <skd5aner> QAM
[01:48] <sabhain> I mean the lineup.
[01:49] <sabhain> For me, the HDHR and HDPVR are both linked to the same digital cable lineup.  How do I separate them if I can't add the same digital lineup twice and edit them differently?
[01:50] <skd5aner> sabhain: I have a video source in mythtv set up for each type of tuning - analog, HD-PVR, and QAM...
[01:51] <sabhain> and on Schedules Direct, what do each of those point to?
[01:51] <skd5aner> sabhain: I actually am looking now
[01:52] <skd5aner> I have 2 lineups on SD, one for the analog, and one for the digital cable
[01:52] <skd5aner> if you had an antenna, you'd have one for that
[01:52] <sabhain> Ok, that reflects what I have (1 analog, one digital)
[01:53] <skd5aner> my qam and HDPVR one both use the "digital cable" one, but what I did is HIDE channels for each tuner the channels that I don't want (or can't tune) that tuner too
[01:53] <skd5aner> sorry, I'm kind of remembering how I set this up as I talk through it outloud - I don't have to think about it very often
[01:53] <sabhain> got it .. hide.
[01:53] <skd5aner> yes...
[01:53] <skd5aner> Hide allows the tuner to not use it, even though SD provides data for it
[01:54] <skd5aner> but it will not show up in the guide and it will not use the data to schedule recordings - it's as if the channel doesn't exist from a scheduler or live tv perspective
[01:54] <sabhain> I understand completely.  I had set it up 6 years ago, and forgot it (just analog and HDHR at the time).  Just did the upgrade to 12.04 and added 2 HD-PVR's .. and now have this new scenario that I wasn't prepared for.
[01:54] <sabhain> but if it's hidden, and you're on the HD-PVR, and tune directly to a number that is hidden, I believe it will still try to tune it.
[01:55] <skd5aner> so, for example...
[01:55] <skd5aner> I have SD provide analog and digital lineups, but I have 3 video sources
[01:55] <sabhain> You and I have what sound like "exactly" the same scenario.
[01:56] <skd5aner> each video source will have it's own channel lineup... so you can hide a channel associated with 1 video source,, but not the other
[01:56] <skd5aner> as an FYI, I use the channel editor in mythweb to flip the hide bit
[01:56] <skd5aner> quicker that way
[01:56] <skd5aner> but you have to be more careful
[01:56] <sabhain> yep ..
[01:57] <skd5aner> you could also do it directly in the db, but that's not recommended
[01:57] <skd5aner> you do have to know your video source ID though to make that work
[01:57] <sabhain> while you're here .. you're not by chance running your HD-PVR off a slave backend are you?
[01:57] <skd5aner> which input ID is associated with which video source ID....
[01:57] <skd5aner> ha, yes... I am
[01:57] <skd5aner> Slave Backend/frontend
[01:57] <sabhain> too funny ..
[01:58] <sabhain> any problems getting the slave backend to connect to the master when it's run as a service in the usual fashion?
[01:58] <sabhain> in my setup right now, the HD-PVR appears as  "unavailable" unless, I kill the startup mythbackend, and run mythbackend from inside a console.
[01:59] <sabhain> the auto-start backend doesn't appear to be able to connect with the master .. but if I log a user in, open a terminal and run mythbackend .. connects fine.
[02:00] <tgm4883> sabhain, sounds like incorrect credentials in config.xml
[02:00] <sabhain> on the slave backend?
[02:00] <tgm4883> could be. What happens if you log in as the mythtv user and start the backend?
[02:01] <skd5aner> yea, what's your backend log say?
[02:01] <sabhain> hmmm ... let me check .. what's the mythtv user password if it hasn't been changed?
[02:01] <tgm4883> sabhain, it's generated on install
[02:01] <tgm4883> there is no default pass
[02:02] <sabhain> any text file I can drag that from?
[02:02] <sabhain> nm I'll just change it.
[02:03] <tgm4883> sabhain, well if it works for your user
[02:03] <tgm4883> then /home/<your user>/.mythtv/config.xml
[02:03] <skd5aner> tgm4883: did you happen to see my update on my upstart script issues the other day?
[02:03] <tgm4883> no
[02:04] <skd5aner> tgm4883: it was in mythtv-users...
[02:04] <skd5aner> thought I fixed it, but no luck...
[02:07] <sabhain> tgm4883: thanks!  The xml files were different.  Copied the one from the user that worked and now trying to restart to see if it works
[02:10] <sabhain> tgm4883: tremendous help.  Thanks .. can't believe I didn't think of that .. was so focused on the other setup file ..
[02:17] <sabhain> of course it shows up as available ..  now tuning doesn't seem to be working, but I have some progress.
[02:25] <sabhain> one step forward, 3 steps back
[02:29] <sabhain> now the slave backend process starts & connects.  Thanks for the help on that.
[02:29] <sabhain> but with the reboot, I'm now getting the dreaded "irsend: hardware does not support sending"
[02:30] <sabhain> dmesg reports the zilig initiation wen't ok, and the blaster appears as lirc0 ..
[02:30] <sabhain> I can't described how much I despise TWC and their QAM practices.
[02:51] <sabhain> if anyone can point me to the best resource for lirc debugging, that'd be great.  I appear to have the modules loaded correctly, dmesg reports successful load.
[02:52] <sabhain> but I'm getting "irsend: could not connect to socket" which is typically indicative of lircd not running (it is) or (/var/run/lirc/lircd lacking write permissions .. it has them).
[02:53] <sabhain> 1 hour ago, before fixing my problem with the backend automatic startup, lirc was working fine.  I would periodically need to kick it .. but it functioned.  Now, not so much.
[02:53] <sabhain> Can't get anything out of even command line irsend
[02:53] <sabhain> sorry to flood the channel.
[04:23] <sabhain> skd5aner: thanks for the recommendations on the guide data, went with your approach and it seems to have resolved the channel issues.  Thanks so much.
[14:45] <TandyUK> hey guys, having some issues with a myth box not working with its remote, ive done all the usual diags but im missing something somewhere...
[14:45] <TandyUK> its a new windows mce ir blaster, which is showing up, and using irw i can see keypresses
[14:46] <TandyUK> its also seen by mcc and dkpg-reconfigure and i have tried setting it up as an mce remote, as well as /dev/input...
[14:46] <TandyUK> but mythtv is not seeing the keypresses that irw does
[14:46] <TandyUK> mythfrontend rather
[14:47] <TandyUK> any suggestionswhat to check next?


[15:47] <Guest9701> hi im using ubuntu studio and i would like to use my m-audio oxygen 25 for musescore...but doesnt do anything...what can i do
[15:48] <Guest9701> ive looked for drivers,nothing...
[15:49] <Eickmeyer> Guest9701: What Ubuntu Studio are you using?
[15:49] <Eickmeyer> ...
[15:52] <dagdag> hi..running ubuntu studio..and want to connect m-audio oxygen25 midi keyboard but is not recognised at all..what now..thanx
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> Guest9701: What Ubuntu Studio are you using?
[15:52] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: ^
[15:52] <dagdag> i think its 18.4
[15:53] <Eickmeyer> 18.04 then.
[15:53] <Eickmeyer> Have you added the Backports PPA?
[15:53] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-backports
[15:53] <dagdag> i have no idea what that is
[15:53] <Eickmeyer> Hence I linked it.
[15:53] <dagdag> ok ill take a look
[15:54] <Eickmeyer> It's REQUIRED for further support.
[15:58] <dagdag> thanx but doest work..writes to give pasword but doest let me and if i try different way it writes something about root
[15:59] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: You have to run those commands. Do you not know your password?
[16:00] <Eickmeyer> If it's not working, then something is wrong with your installation.
[16:00] <dagdag> yes i put my pasword but writes sorry try again
[16:01] <OerHeks> check your caps lock
[16:01] <dagdag> i tried it 3 times and now its running strangely
[16:02] <dagdag> it has read the package list..and ended
[16:03] <dagdag> is there something else i have to do
[16:03] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: You need to enter each command on that page separately.
[16:04] <dagdag> it has read the package list and ended
[16:04] <dagdag> anyth else
[16:05] <dagdag> Fetched 3426 kB in 7s (497 kB/s)                                                Reading package lists... Done
[16:05] <OerHeks> run update, and full-upgrade
[16:05] <OerHeks> reboot, and go wild
[16:06] <dagdag> yea thank!!oerheks
[16:06] <dagdag> installing
[16:12] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-controls | dagdag: After that, you will want to read this
[16:13] <Eickmeyer> It turns on the ALSA-Jack MIDI bridge too
[16:13] <Eickmeyer> Then you can use Patchage or install and use Carla to patch your keyboard to MuseScore.
[16:14] <dagdag> let me take alook
[16:24] <dagdag> ok im as far as that i have plugged in the m audio...i have open musescore and i have open patchage...in the last i can see the m audio oxygen...now where do i go
[16:25] <Eickmeyer> Drag a line from the maudio oxygen to the same colored input on MuseScore.
[16:27] <dagdag> in patchage it writes nu musescore
[16:27] <Eickmeyer> Hmmm...
[16:27]  * Eickmeyer might have to play around with MuseScore
[16:27] <Eickmeyer> OerHeks: Any thoughts? I have very little experience with MuseScore.
[16:30] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ?
[16:30] <dagdag> i have opened also musescore preferences  i/o...port audio..but no oygen recognised...ill stay with patchage...how do i patch the oxygen with musescore..in patchage
[16:31] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: Did you have musescore open prior to starting Jack? If so, restart MuseScore.
[16:32] <dagdag> in patchage it writes:oygen 2times...midi through 2 times..and systen 2 times
[16:32] <dagdag> system sorry
[16:32] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: That tells me MuseScore needs to be restarted.
[16:33] <dagdag> done that
[16:33] <Eickmeyer> Still not showing up in Patchage?
[16:33] <dagdag> i also restarted patchage nothing showing
[16:34] <Eickmeyer> So, it's clear your Oxygen is being recognized by the system. You might need to ask for help in #musescore (type "/join #musescore").
[16:35] <Eickmeyer> Well, at least I got them partway.
[16:36] <dagdag> sorry i lost the chat..eickmeyer
[16:36] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: No worries.
[16:36] <Eickmeyer> My last line:
[16:36] <Eickmeyer> So, it's clear your Oxygen is being recognized by the system. You might need to ask for help in #musescore (type "/join #musescore").
[16:37] <dagdag> ok..thank you for your great help as far as this also to oerheks!!
[16:37] <dagdag> ill check it out
[16:37] <Eickmeyer> So, at this point, it's not an operating system issue. Good luck! :)
[16:37] <dagdag> bye and thanks!
[16:37] <dagdag> good
[16:37] <Eickmeyer> Quite welcome. :)
[16:44] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: My musecoe came with pulse audio as the default audio
[16:44] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Oh. :/
[16:44] <Eickmeyer> Must be how it's built for Debian.
[16:44] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: If you're still here, you might have to stop Jack.
[16:44] <OvenWerks> when I change it to jack then it auto selects jack audio, MIDI.
[16:45] <OvenWerks> but now I have to restart musescore for that to take effect.
[16:46] <OvenWerks> now musescore shows up in patchage
[16:46] <dagdag> im here
[16:47] <OvenWerks> I can connect my midi capture (AudioPCI in my case) to musescore midi in (dark red in my case)
[16:47] <OvenWerks> if I actually had a keyboard connected it should accept midi in to musescore
[16:48] <OvenWerks> No not stop jack, restart musescore after choosing jack as it's I/O
[16:48] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
[16:48] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: ^
[16:49]  * OvenWerks is neither a keyboardist or a composer :)
[16:49] <dagdag> trying different things one moment
[16:51] <OvenWerks> Hey it make piano sounds if I add notes
[16:52]  * OvenWerks wonders why people assume piano should be the default sound...
[16:52] <dagdag> i changed in musescore i/o...to jack midi use and jack audio..now its recognised in patchage
[16:52] <OvenWerks> Yes, that is what I found as well
[16:53] <dagdag> now where do i go...i have to create a line between..some of them
[16:53] <OvenWerks> dagdag: working in jack allows a lot more flexability. For example, musescore can be used as a sequencer to drive Ardour (transport and all) so that audio can be added on top.
[16:54] <dagdag> ok
[16:55] <OvenWerks> to hook up lines in patchage think about a wire cable that pulls out from one device and can be plugged into another (like those old vaccumes with a retractable cord.)
[16:55] <dagdag> but...i am using my m audio through usb port and not jack
[16:55] <dagdag> i understood that
[16:55] <OvenWerks> Drag the mouse from the output of one to the input of where you want it to go.
[16:56] <Eickmeyer> dagdag: Jack is simply the name of the audio framework. Not to be confused with a physical jack.
[16:56] <OvenWerks> That should not matter, the midi port should still show up.
[16:56] <dagdag> ok
[16:57] <OvenWerks> dagdag: the screen in patchage does go beyond what you can see. You can use scroll bars to see if you maudio midi port is off the screen
[16:58] <OvenWerks> If you use the patchbay in Carla, there is a small over view screen in the bottom corner that is quite handy for seeing where they might be
[17:00] <OvenWerks> In both patchage and Carla, the boxes can be dragged around to make the most sense for your setup. I normally pot inputs on the left and outputs on the right and applications in the middle
[17:01] <dagdag> so..what i see in patchage:oxygen 25...2 times system:one with playback 1 and 2..the other with capture 1 and 2...then there is mscore midiin in and midi(left and right) hooked tosystem playback
[17:01]  * OvenWerks is surprised that random notes he added to musescore actually sounds like music
[17:02] <OvenWerks> dagdag: the audio and the midi should be different colours so always connect the same colours.
[17:02] <OvenWerks> so connect the oxigen25 with the midi colour to the muse midi in.
[17:03] <OvenWerks> If you have a score open... in the right mode I would guess, notes should appear on the score and be heard as a piano sound from the computer.
[17:06] <OvenWerks> As I said, I don't have a keyboard handy to play with just now.
[17:07] <dagdag> i have score open...and in patchage i connected same collored purple oxygen with midi through
[17:08] <OvenWerks> midi through? That is probably not what you want
[17:09] <dagdag> ok
[17:09] <OvenWerks> midi through is just a pipeline from midi through playback to midi through capture.
[17:10] <OvenWerks> It is helpfule for some older sw that does not show a public port but can connect to only HW. Midi through looks like a hw port.
[17:10] <OvenWerks> Midi through is of almost no use anymore
[17:11] <dagdag> ok
[17:11] <OvenWerks> (but jack creates it by default anyway)
[17:12] <OvenWerks> You will have a box that says "a2j" at the top and it will have through and should also have your keyboard.
[17:12] <OvenWerks> (probably the bottom entry)
[17:13] <dagdag> let me see
[17:15] <OvenWerks> If you don't have an a2j box with red in it (the same colour as mscore) then a2jmidid is not running
[17:16] <OvenWerks> That would beg the question of how you started jack.
[17:16] <dagdag> i ran a2j and is now in patchage...with colour red
[17:16] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-controls shouild auto start a2j for you.
[17:16] <OvenWerks> good
[17:17] <OvenWerks> did you run it with the -e flag?
[17:17] <dagdag> with the e flag?
[17:17] <OvenWerks> If run without, your kb will not show
[17:17] <OvenWerks> yes the correct command to start a2j is a2jmidid -e
[17:18] <OvenWerks> (that is why ubuntustudio-controls was made)
[17:19] <dagdag> i have open studio controls
[17:20] <OvenWerks> does it have two tabs?
[17:20] <OvenWerks> (system tweaks and Audio setup?)
[17:20] <dagdag> in controls /..yes
[17:21] <OvenWerks> good, it is newer then
[17:22] <OvenWerks> Jack master at the top should be your computer, I would guess (PCH or something)
[17:22] <OvenWerks> sample rate 48k (change this to 44k1 if you must)
[17:23] <OvenWerks> set Default PulseAudio output to "Jack Master" or you PCH device.
[17:24] <dagdag> yes it writes intel alc analog...done the other things
[17:24] <OvenWerks> The three or four check boxes should all be checked (the top one for jack may not be, that is ok)
[17:24] <OvenWerks> start or restart jack
[17:25] <dagdag> all checked
[17:25] <OvenWerks> you will need to do a System->Connect to jack in patchage and maybe restart mscore
[17:26] <dagdag> green connection left right to playback are connected
[17:27] <OvenWerks> patchage should now show an a2j box with your oxygen25 in it
[17:28] <dagdag> no doesnt show...all sepparate and different colours
[17:29] <OvenWerks> so there is no a2j
[17:29] <OvenWerks> did you restart jack in -controls?
[17:31] <OvenWerks> When you restart jack patchage should loose all the jack bits and you need to go to System->connect to jack to get them back.
[17:32] <OvenWerks> mscore will need to be restared.
[17:32] <dagdag> i restarted jack in controls..now in patchage only shows 2 times oxygen..and two times midi through all the rst has dissapeared
[17:33] <OvenWerks> in the menu bar use System->connect to jack
[17:33] <OvenWerks> (the patcgae menu bar)
[17:33] <OvenWerks> *patchage
[17:35] <dagdag> aha lots written and allready connected
[17:36] <OvenWerks> dagdag: yes, do you see your kb?
[17:36] <OvenWerks> (that is the important thing after all)
[17:37] <dagdag> yes i see the oxygen in red in the same box with a2j
[17:38] <OvenWerks> good.
[17:38] <OvenWerks> so you will have to restart mscore to see that
[17:38] <OvenWerks> if you haven't already
[17:39] <OvenWerks> (mscore doesn't have a reconnect to jack button that I could find)
[17:39] <dagdag> wow..i just played the first notes with oxygen in musescore
[17:39] <OvenWerks> \o/
[17:40] <dagdag> so next time if i open my computer and musescore..when i plugin my oxygen..doest it recognise automatic
[17:41] <OvenWerks> If you don't stop jack in -controls, the next time you boot jack will run at session start and so be there. If the kb is plugged in before you run mscore then it should just auto connect
[17:42] <OvenWerks> You should not have to restart jack.
[17:42] <OvenWerks> It is ok to leave jack runn all the time, I have been doing so for about 5 years now.
[17:43] <OvenWerks> I even do this in my wifes computer and she doesn't do that much audio besides skype, but It allows me to turn her mic off and on
[17:43] <dagdag> great!i thank you for your precious time!!and all that have reacted here above!!
[17:43] <OvenWerks> (she likes to sing with music)
[17:44] <OvenWerks> no problem.
[17:44] <dagdag> hope she sings well:)
[17:44] <OvenWerks> she sings in a long term care facility and there is no problems with residents for up to 2 hours after she is done.
[17:45] <OvenWerks> she does good.
[17:45] <dagdag> i just tries someth
[17:46] <dagdag> i unplugged oxygen..and plugged it in again...restarted musescore...but i had to reconnect in patchage...
[17:48] <OvenWerks> yes, mscore only reconnects on start up
[17:49] <OvenWerks> there are some commandline utillities that look for new ports and connect them (or disconnect) via an alogrythum the user sets up
[17:49] <OvenWerks> jack-plumbing comes to mind
[17:49] <OvenWerks> you may need to install jack-tools if it is not there
[17:50] <dagdag> so i have to each time i use musescore also open patchage to reconnect a2j with mscore
[17:50] <OvenWerks> if you plug in your keyboard before starting mscore it should make all the connections at that time.
[17:51] <dagdag> let me see
[17:51] <OvenWerks> in mscore->preferences->I/O there is a checkbox for "remember last connections.
[17:51] <dagdag> yes it did!!GREAT!!!
[17:51] <OvenWerks> That should be checked by default
[17:52] <dagdag> its working!!im so thankfull!!
[17:52] <dagdag> can i ask you where you are in the world
[17:52] <OvenWerks> sometimes these things seem intuitive to the developer, but may not be to the user.
[17:53] <OvenWerks> I am on Vancouver Island in Canada
[17:53] <dagdag> wow..canada..few days ago i spoke to a canadian..im in greece
[17:54] <OvenWerks> A lot of linux audio devs are in Europe, mostly France and Germany
[17:54] <dagdag> give my greetings to joni mitchel
[17:55] <OvenWerks> But for ubuntustudio, Eickmeyer and I are both on the NA west coast. (he is somewhat south of me in the US)
[17:55] <dagdag> and again thank you for your great help and getting me through this
[17:55] <OvenWerks> She is almost half way closer to you in Ontario I think
[17:55] <dagdag> ah ok..nice to know
[17:56] <OvenWerks> So the best time to get help here may be to think UTC -0700
[17:56] <dagdag> so you are always on these chats of ubuntu studio
[17:56] <OvenWerks> my irc client is always going, but I am not always watching...
[17:57] <OvenWerks> I do tend to look at the back scroll though
[17:58] <dagdag> ok...im signing out...greetings from europe to you in canada
[17:58] <OvenWerks> Ok, bye now.
[17:58] <dagdag> bye bye...
[23:57] <neoangel> hi there guys
[23:57] <neoangel> greetings
[23:58] <neoangel> is anyone there who knows or is in charge of the ubuntu studio kernel?
[23:58] <Eickmeyer> neoangel: The Ubuntu Studio Kernel is no different from the main Ubuntu kernel except for one build flag.
[23:59] <Eickmeyer> The Ubuntu Studio team no longer directly maintains it.


[02:59] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1080861] package qt4-doc-html (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: cannot copy extracted data... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1080861 (by heathhensh)
[03:10] <ScottK> xnox: Is the cmake patch upstreamed?
[06:50] <soee> good morning
[10:40] <yofel> could someone please look at armhf build https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avogadro/1.0.3-5ubuntu4/+build/4076596 and tell me what I did wrong o.O?
[10:51] <apachelogger> yofel: it includes GLES and GL
[10:51] <persia> Looks like fallout from rebuilding lots of stuff for GLES rather than GL, but I would have expected that to be abstracted at a Qt level
[10:52] <yofel> ah, I did notice that it included both - but I have no clue why it does..
[10:52]  * yofel -> lunch
[10:52] <apachelogger> persia: it's more painful to do drawing using Qt4's regular drawing API than by writing a shader
[10:53] <apachelogger> though you could indeed abstract GL in parctise it rarely makes sense
[10:53]  * persia dreams of the QtGL abstraction layer
[10:53] <apachelogger> in fact that goes away somewhat entirely in Qt5
[10:53] <persia> Anyway, probably have to make a GL vs. GLEZs decision for now (unfortunate, as there are devices for both APIs for that architecture)
[10:53] <apachelogger> as with QML you are encouraged to write GL shaders directly
[10:54] <apachelogger> yofel: btw, I had a dream about release packaging automation last night
[11:00] <apachelogger> ah, I was running proposed, that's why my initramfs broke over i915
[11:28] <jussi> o/
[11:28] <jussi> gles is the way forward imho...
[11:31]  * persia mumbles something about having GL-supporting devices for every architecture supported by Ubuntu in pluggable form-factors that work on other folks hardware too
[11:54] <yofel> apachelogger: as in making our process better or a completely different one?
[11:54] <apachelogger> better
[11:55] <apachelogger> someone runs a cron that ignites mad automation
[11:55] <yofel> what for?
[11:56] <apachelogger> updates tars from ftpmaster (triggering version bumps and rebuilds accordingly), updates branches from bzr (triggering rebuilds accordingly), rebuilds whatever needs rebuilds and uploads wahtever needs uploading
[11:57] <apachelogger> so it becomes continous integration and the intended workflow is: throw random change at bzr->see if it works (for 99% of the problems)
[11:58] <yofel> would need an untrusted pgp key, but I guess doable if someone finds the time to implement it
[11:58] <yofel> and don't look at me - my vacation todo list is pretty full as it is
[11:58] <apachelogger> define untrusted
[11:58] <yofel> passwordless
[11:58] <yofel> or how would you upload packages from cron?
[11:58] <apachelogger> one can script the way out of that
[11:58] <persia> apachelogger: Don't run a cron: rather take the notication from upstream VCS when the release is tagged, and drive from that.
[11:59] <apachelogger> plus since only one person in theory has access it matters little
[11:59] <apachelogger> persia: what notification?
[11:59] <persia> apachelogger: Which VCS are you using?
[11:59] <apachelogger> le git
[11:59]  * persia tries to track down that bit of code
[12:00] <apachelogger> well, the point is that tarballs get rerolled ever so often between official tagging and actual release
[12:00] <yofel> which reminds me that we need something that shows us post-release commits to the bugfix branches in kde
[12:00] <apachelogger> so IMO the most reliable way is to simply check checksums of the tars and if they changed, update them bumping the version
[12:00] <persia> Add a post-receive hook, which can be an arbitrary shell script.  Have it wget something as a trigger.
[12:01] <yofel> to find 4.9.5+ commits etc.
[12:01] <persia> Better yet, have it send an IRC message or do something else everyone can use.
[12:01] <apachelogger> persia: KDE has that
[12:01] <apachelogger> IRC messages require someone to do something though
[12:01] <persia> Yeah, it's the tarball re-rolling bit that gets in the way.
[12:01] <persia> Why?  Bots can subscribe to IRC messages...
[12:02] <persia> What's the notice procedure when the re-rolling is complete?  Posting on a web page?  Mail?
[12:02] <apachelogger> mail on private list
[12:02] <yofel> well, usually kde-release is CC'd
[12:02] <persia> Does anyone on that private list use a mail filter?
[12:03] <persia> Have one of those folk trigger something when the magic message is received (maybe provide automation to the release team to ensure it is a machine-readable message), and then trigger from that.
[12:04] <apachelogger> single point of failure
[12:04] <persia> And a cronjob isn't?
[12:04] <apachelogger> I want this to have as few requirements and as few failure points as possible
[12:04] <apachelogger> persia: not if the system it invokes is so simple that you can just as well invoke it by hand or setup another builder on another machine
[12:05] <yofel> hm... do we have a team-internal dev TODO list? The blueprints are more about release work
[12:05] <persia> OK.  I just don't like polling.  I think it damages the planet.
[12:05] <apachelogger> yofel: no, how would a team-internal list be different?
[12:06] <yofel> apachelogger: I mean for stuff like our support scripts - where to keep that todo list?
[12:06] <yofel> I'll put some notes on the pad for now
[12:06] <apachelogger> persia: I'd usually agree, but in this case simplicity takes lead ^^
[12:06] <apachelogger> persia: on a related note ... we'd also have to somehow watch bzr changes
[12:07] <persia> I know lots less about bzr hooks, but I hear they exist.
[12:07] <apachelogger> yeah they do
[12:07] <apachelogger> but I doubt we get one on launchpad
[12:08] <apachelogger> so those needed to be client side (ewww) or mail filtering again
[12:08] <persia> I think LP supports them: at least there are several LP-hosted branches with notifications, etc.
[12:08] <yofel> I wouldn't mind to have a mailing list for our commits actually...
[12:08] <apachelogger> persia: yeah there are email notifications
[12:09] <apachelogger> yofel: set a mailing list for ~kubuntu-packagers
[12:09] <yofel> yeah
[12:09] <yofel> that and change the subscription settings IIRC
[12:09] <apachelogger> ohm
[12:09] <apachelogger> hf with the 300 branches
[12:09] <yofel> shouldn't be hard to script
[12:09] <apachelogger> if one can script that :P
[12:09] <apachelogger> which reminds me
[12:10] <apachelogger> yofel: newpackage still broken :P
[12:10] <yofel> the API is junk in some places, but overall it's good
[12:10] <apachelogger> also it's not working :P
[12:10] <yofel> apachelogger: right, on todays todo list, I'll get to it later...
[12:10]  * apachelogger draws diagrams
[12:10] <apachelogger> ah yes, I forgot
[12:10]  * yofel makes a lucid chroot in the meanwhile
[12:11] <apachelogger> so then you have the second piece which continuously builds the build status page
[12:11] <apachelogger> completely independent of the builder, so that can run on another machine etc.
[12:12] <apachelogger> and finally the conflictchecker which builds a list of all binary packages supposed to be built, installs those in a clean chroot from a stable version, then tries to upgrade
[12:12] <yofel> define continuously. The lp admins don't like cron scripts that pull all the time too much. Ideally the page would be cached and have a refresh button on it
[12:13] <apachelogger> i.e. QA for file conflicts and broken maintscripts etc.
[12:13]  * yofel needs an IRC to pad parser btw.
[12:13] <apachelogger> dunno what that is
[12:14] <apachelogger> yofel: and by continously I mean every 15 minutes
[12:14] <yofel> a simple version of the brain to pad interface :P
[12:15] <apachelogger> if builder and buildstatus on the same machine one could think about smarter behavior here
[12:16] <apachelogger> e.g. track all versions uploaded by builder, status then removes them as it gets the data for that version
[12:16] <apachelogger> if no packages pending -> no autorefresh
[12:20]  * yofel wonders if one can deduce whether there was an update from the Packages.gz in the binary archive
[12:20] <yofel> timestamp I mean
[12:21] <yofel> not sure which of those files are updated when something is published
[12:26] <yofel> hm, if I find out how to do the https authentication that's doable actually...
[12:28] <yofel> fun, wget can handle the password url's for apt, so it's in fact trivial
[13:07] <yofel> apachelogger: newpackage should work on lucid now
[13:22] <persia> "continuous" as in "continuous integration" shouldn't be time-based, but rather event-based.  Packages.gz always gets updated when stuff gets published (the version strings in the file need to change)
[14:20] <shadeslayer> btw does this look good : http://paste.kde.org/628682/ : for kde-workspace?
[14:21] <shadeslayer> or should I install Minimalistic/None/Simple ?
[14:21] <shadeslayer> hmm ... I guess I should
[14:22] <yofel> shadeslayer: that's fine
[14:22] <shadeslayer> ?
[14:22] <yofel> current kde-workspace git has no themes folder anymore
[14:22] <shadeslayer> oh
[14:22] <shadeslayer> awesome
[14:23] <yofel> see d4b00fa89292e4dc84ba344cedbaa645ef3ebe9a
[14:24] <shadeslayer> btw regarding active dual building kde-workspace
[14:24] <yofel> shadeslayer: ah, not quite, only the default one is gone
[14:24] <shadeslayer> should we rebuild all binaries with active in the binary name?
[14:24] <shadeslayer> because we're building with a different profile ....
[14:25] <yofel> dunno
[14:25] <shadeslayer> s/we're/we will be/
[14:25] <kubotu> shadeslayer meant: "because we will be building with a different profile ...."
[14:25] <shadeslayer> possibly kickstart a discussion on the ML?
[14:36] <yofel> shadeslayer: feel free to, but looking at my todo list don't count on my much in the near future wrt active
[14:36] <yofel> *me
[14:36] <shadeslayer> heh ok
[14:46] <shadeslayer> ~seen SteveRiley
[14:46] <kubotu> SteveRiley was last seen 1 month, 2 hours, 35 minutes and 18 seconds ago, quitting IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
[14:46] <shadeslayer> 0.o
[14:46] <shadeslayer> he seems to have disappeared after UDS :P
[14:47] <shadeslayer> Hopefully we didn't scare him off
[15:08] <persia> shadeslayer: You can just say something, rather than pointing me somewhere I am :p
[15:08] <shadeslayer> heh :P
[15:08] <shadeslayer> persia: anywho
[15:09] <shadeslayer> so you're saying that the config in /etc/kde4 should override the kubuntu-settings-desktop?
[15:09] <shadeslayer> then the entire point of custom configs is lost
[15:09] <persia> I'm saying that there should be the potential for local-system-config that overrides packaging config, unless that packaging config is a conffile or local-system-managed configuration file.
[15:10] <shadeslayer> tbh any custom configs should be debated upstream and resolved as either useless on our side, or committed upstream
[15:10] <persia> I won't agree with that: I think there's value in distribution defaults.
[15:11] <persia> I just think that sysadmins should be able to set local default that override distro defaults in a way that is preserved accross upgrades.
[15:11] <shadeslayer> yeah that's easily doable
[15:11] <persia> Doesn't have to be in /etc/kde4rc
[15:11] <shadeslayer> just add your path before kubuntu-desktop-settings ?
[15:11] <shadeslayer> so it'll do cascaded configs
[15:11] <shadeslayer> sysadmin settings > distro settings > kde upstream settings
[15:12] <persia> Rather, package should already have an (empty) local system config listed before the disto config, and the documentation should tell system administrators to change things there.
[15:12] <persia> Right.
[15:12] <persia> Well, user settings > admin settings > distro settings > upstream settings
[15:12] <shadeslayer> right
[15:12] <shadeslayer> that's already done by KConfig
[15:13] <persia> Thought so: you should tell people do use the admin settings rather than hunting under /usr/share :p
[15:13] <shadeslayer> I see, I probably explained it a bit poorly in #kubuntu then :)
[15:14] <persia> At least enough to get the response "that gets lost on upgrade", but really it belongs in good docs, not your head and channel logs.
[15:14] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:14] <shadeslayer> or API docs
[15:14] <persia> No: admins don't read API docs, only devs do.
[15:14] <shadeslayer> right
[15:14] <shadeslayer> that's what I meant
[15:14]  * persia ignores the existence of the devops crowd for the sake of argument
[15:15] <shadeslayer> haha
[15:15] <persia> Oh, right.  Yeah, I suppose it is in the API docs already :)
[15:15] <shadeslayer> I've actually been working a derivative for the last 4-5 months so I've experienced all of these issues :P
[15:16] <shadeslayer> and I've seen people ( i.e the mint team ) implement this horribly
[15:17] <shadeslayer> even more fun is software that doesn't respect XDG settings, like QtCurve
[15:18] <persia> There's KDE software that respects XDG?
[15:19]  * persia still has ~/.kde/ and .kderc
[15:19] <yofel> akonadi would be one
[15:19] <shadeslayer> :D
[15:20] <shadeslayer> there's the gtk3 kcm
[15:20] <shadeslayer> <3 apol_ for respecting XDG
[15:20] <apol_> <3
[15:20] <yofel> well, the kcm is good, the gtk3 settings not. Not that you have a better chice
[15:20] <yofel> *choice
[15:21] <persia> No, I'm making fun.  More and more bits seem to be in the right places, and things that aren't (like KDECACHE KDEVARTMP KDETMP) do interesting things that would be hard to do within the .xdg framework
[15:22] <persia> s/./△/
[15:22] <kubotu> persia meant: "△o, I'm making fun.  More and more bits seem to be in the right places, and things that aren't (like KDECACHE KDEVARTMP KDETMP) do interesting things that would be hard to do within the .xdg framework"
[15:22] <persia> kubotu: Err, not quite, but good try
[15:41] <yofel> shadeslayer: how's kde-workspace?
[15:41] <Peace-> rc is out ?
[15:41] <Peace-> :D annoying question i know
[15:42] <Peace-> i mean packaged :P
[15:42] <yofel> still WIP
[15:42] <Peace-> uu
[15:42] <shadeslayer> yofel: still building
[15:42] <shadeslayer> will upload as soon as it's done
[15:42] <Peace-> goog
[15:43] <Peace-> good
[15:43] <yofel> shadeslayer: what did you do about the themes now?
[15:43] <shadeslayer> I removed the default one, kept everything else
[15:43] <yofel> good
[15:53] <shadeslayer> yofel: btw with the active profile it's just ifdef'd code right?
[15:54] <shadeslayer> 0.o
[15:54] <shadeslayer> o.0
[15:55] <shadeslayer> not a single mention of the tablet profile in kde-workspace
[15:55] <shadeslayer> wtf?
[15:55] <yofel> don't ask me
[15:55] <shadeslayer> http://paste.kde.org/628730/
[15:56] <yofel> it seems not choosing desktop simply disables lots of stuff
[15:56] <shadeslayer> yeah
[15:56] <yofel> so maybe just stick to desktop if it doesn't hurt
[15:56] <shadeslayer> I guess
[15:56] <shadeslayer> so we don't need to dual build?
[15:56] <shadeslayer> yay
[15:57] <yofel> don't you still need an alternate kwin? or is that now merged?
[15:57] <shadeslayer> there was no mention of it from sebas
[15:58] <yofel> well, then yay
[15:58] <shadeslayer> http://paste.kde.org/628736/
[15:58] <shadeslayer> wat
[15:58] <shadeslayer> shouldn't that be "Tablet" or sth?
[15:59] <yofel> well, that works too...
[15:59] <yofel> but seems like you still need to double build
[15:59] <yofel> meh
[15:59] <shadeslayer> yeah
[15:59] <yofel> though just keeping it as it is should work it seems
[15:59] <shadeslayer> yeah
[16:00] <shadeslayer> it looks as if it merely turns off some kwin options
[16:00] <yofel> seems we never backported amarok
[16:00] <shadeslayer> ouch
[16:00] <shadeslayer> oh
[16:01] <shadeslayer> ScottK: should I put ktp in kubuntu-updates or backports?
[16:01] <shadeslayer> since I would like to get that SRU'd, I was thinking updates
[16:04] <shadeslayer> yofel: http://paste.kde.org/628742/
[16:04] <shadeslayer> just to make sure I didn't do something wrong
[16:05] <yofel> looks ok as I understand it
[16:05] <shadeslayer> cool
[16:08] <shadeslayer> uploaded to ninjas
[16:51] <yofel> amarok 2.6.90 uploaded to /beta for quantal
[16:51] <yofel> bbl
[19:27] <doctorpepper> hi guys !!!
[19:28] <doctorpepper> is there any way to get kde 4.10 rc on  12.04  ?
[19:28] <shadeslayer> erm, nope
[19:28] <doctorpepper> shadeslayer:  why   ?
[19:29] <shadeslayer> because we usually don't backport for stable-1
[19:29] <shadeslayer> build deps are *usually* too old
[19:31] <doctorpepper> well 12.04  is supported  for 5 years so  according  what you say  i am stuck with 4.9  for the next 4 years
[19:32] <shadeslayer> on a related note, does unity get similar upgrades?
[19:32] <doctorpepper> i dl
[19:33] <doctorpepper> i dont know  since  i dont use anything but  kde  or fluxbox
[19:33] <shadeslayer> hmm .. maybe someone else knows?
[19:34] <yofel> well, it's probably not impossible, but I don't see how we'll have time to do this currently
[19:35] <shadeslayer> well
[19:35] <yofel> if someone wants to try it we can give pointers on how to do it
[19:35] <shadeslayer> we could just run backportpackage on stuff
[19:37] <doctorpepper> yofel:  is there any plan to  build kde 4.x with  qt5  for future kubuntu releases ?
[19:37] <yofel> well, we'll first need qt5, but IIRC we wanted qt5 in raring?
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> ^not all of it would necessarily build anyway
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> (all of kde)
[19:38] <yofel> wasn't qt5 supposed to be api compatible?
[19:38] <yofel> (except webkit maybe)
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> mostly
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> an easy example, kwin won't
[19:38] <yofel> because it uses gl?
[19:39] <JontheEchidna> anything using Qt3support still won't
[19:39] <yofel> ouch
[19:39] <doctorpepper> and 3D stuff  is expected  for 5.1 or 5.0.1
[19:39] <JontheEchidna> kwin because this: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2012/12/the-road-towards-kwin-on-qt-5/
[19:39] <yofel> ah thx
[19:40] <JontheEchidna> I don't suspect that KDE will be built against Qt 5.x until KDE Frameworks 5 is out
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> here's some more stuff that has to be changed, in general: http://www.kdab.com/porting-from-qt-4-to-qt-5/
[19:46] <afiestas> JontheEchidna: Frameworks depend on at leat Qt 5.1
[19:47] <afiestas> I say at least because maybe somebody gets out of Qt 5.1 and we have to wait until 5.2
[21:02] <soee> hiho
[23:30] <Riddell> evening, what did I miss?
[23:37] <shadeslayer> not much I think
[23:39] <rbelem> hi Riddell :-)
[23:40] <rbelem> Riddell, all patches merged on icecc upstream
[23:40] <rbelem> Riddell, media.rbelem.info/icecc_0.9.98~git2012122001-0ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz http://media.rbelem.info/icecc_0.9.98~git2012122001.orig.tar.bz2
[23:40] <Riddell> groovy
[23:40] <rbelem> :-D
[23:45] <yofel> hm, which reminds me that I forgot to report icecc bugs
[23:45] <yofel> start-stop-daemon: unable to open pidfile '/var/run/icecc/iceccd.pid' for writing (No such file or directory)
[23:47] <rbelem> yofel, fixed :-)
[23:47] <yofel> great :)
[23:48] <rbelem> how do i submit these changes to debian?
[23:49] <shadeslayer> reportbug + patches?
[23:49] <rbelem> hum... how about utunubu?
[23:49] <shadeslayer> poke the person who last uploaded icecc?
[23:50] <shadeslayer> which would be you ....
[23:50] <shadeslayer> :P
[23:50] <rbelem> :-D
[23:50] <shadeslayer> imho you should have packaged 0.9.8 with proper patches in debian/patches
[23:51] <shadeslayer> unless the next version comes out before feature freeze
[23:54] <rbelem> shadeslayer, i think it will be ready before. i will poke upstream to make sure
[23:54] <shadeslayer> in which case ignore my comment :)
[23:55] <rbelem> shadeslayer, yesterday 0.9.97 was released two days ago iirc
[23:55] <shadeslayer> cool
[23:55] <rbelem> shadeslayer, soon we will have 1.0 :-)
[23:55] <shadeslayer> :D
[23:56] <rbelem> and with support to multiple compilers


[08:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3032 Failed to build (xenial/qemu). Pending binary packages (xenial/device-tree-compiler)
[09:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3032 Diff missing (xenial/device-tree-compiler). Failed to build (xenial/qemu)
[19:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3014 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/ubiquity). Updates pocket (xenial/network-manager-applet)


[00:11] <ArMo3> The reboot and shut down options are greyed out.
[00:12] <ArMo3> wrong channel
[00:12] <ArMo3> sorry
[01:59] <mucus> hey, i'm new to linux and was wondering how i use the terminal to make a program from a source
[02:02] <bazhang> mucus, compile?
[02:02] <mucus> actually yes
[02:02] <bazhang> mucus, install build-essential
[02:02] <mucus> i'm in the terminal now, but having problems changing to the proper directory....
[02:03] <mucus> build-essential h?
[02:03] <bazhang> sudo apt-get install build-essential
[02:03] <mucus> i get a couple of errors
[02:04] <bazhang> such as?
[02:04] <mucus> oh ...maybe that's due to synaptic being open
[02:04] <bazhang> yep
[02:04] <bazhang> you can install from there as well
[02:04] <bazhang> !compile
[02:04] <bazhang> mucus, you may want to have a read of the above as well
[02:04] <mucus> !packages
[02:05] <mucus> cool thanks, i wanna get started on compiling my own source, but i need to get back into the swing of things with c. . .
[02:06] <mucus> when i install something in that manner, where does it go?
[02:06] <mucus> ie where does it install to
[03:12] <christo_m> how can i stop xubuntu from saving state
[03:12] <christo_m> i dont want the samecrap opening everytime i shut down
[06:15] <skyhawk> Can someone help me with a desktop enviornment question?
[06:19] <Sysi> try
[06:21] <skyhawk> I would like to boot without xfce or any desktop enviornment
[06:27] <Sysi> with them being installed or do minimal installation or remove some?
[06:28] <Sysi> http://serverfault.com/questions/147430/how-to-change-default-runlevel-of-ubuntu-lucid
[06:36] <CloseYetFar> Hey is there anyway to get a text boot up that will show you the loading of all the scripts like on Gentoo?
[06:38] <Sysi> you can replace "quiet splash" with "verbose" in /etc/default/grub but then it prints useless stuff too
[06:39] <CloseYetFar> is it just kernal stuff? I basicly want to see init run its rc scripts
[06:40] <Sysi> afaik there isn't really good way with grub2, you can see boot messages after booting with 'dmesg'
[06:40] <CloseYetFar> yea
[06:41] <Sysi> grub2/upstart
[06:47] <lighta> !version
[07:13] <CloseYetFar> upstart is the new program that manages rc scritps?
[07:13] <bazhang> many , yes
[07:14] <bazhang> !upstart
[07:17] <CloseYetFar> ok thanks
[14:35] <nkadmin> i am using tightvnc server. the screen on the windows client is gray blank. whet must i do to see the real scree?
[14:39] <psycho_oreos> xubuntu being the vnc server and windows being the vnc client? how do you mean real screen?
[14:56] <nkadmin> yes, so
[15:13] <nkadmin> on the client machine inthe vnc client window is dark grey.
[15:16] <psycho_oreos> !vnc| nkadmin
[15:18] <nkadmin> i will see the link! :)
[15:32] <WhitePelican> anyone know of a ppa for xfce4.8 for Maverick yet?
[15:37] <mark76> I wish :(
[15:41] <Sysi> i'd compiled it for myself but it would have ment i'd had to remove almost all gui application
[15:42] <WhitePelican> guess I will have to wait 3 months then :)
[15:48] <rtdos> i have a 6.04 desktop that does not have access to the internet (so i'm not as concerned about security updates) - is there a way to install software from the repositorie archives using only a CD?
[15:48] <quantumbit> yea if you have it
[15:49] <quantumbit> altough, you should upgrade to 10.10 to get newer software versions
[15:51] <rtdos> quantumbit: i mainly use this 6.04 machine for games, it's not even connected to the internet. given how old the hardware is, i doubt 10.10 would be much of an improvement.
[15:52] <quantumbit> i run 10.10 on an old machine I upgraded to 512mb ram lately
[15:52] <quantumbit> i ran it with 256mb although, it wasn't very usable
[15:52] <quantumbit> i run it on 2 such machines actually
[15:52] <rtdos> the machine i have 6.04 machine only has 128 Meg and a 700MHz Celeron.
[15:52] <quantumbit> wow
[15:53] <rtdos> yea. :)
[15:53] <quantumbit> ok I understand :D~~
[15:53] <quantumbit> yea, for some reason newer software/distribs seem to use quite a lot of ram
[15:53] <quantumbit> I think, mostly because they assume availability
[15:53] <rtdos> it's an hp and althoguh i like hp, i bought it as a wal-mart special
[15:53] <Sysi> moder HW for modern OS
[15:54] <rtdos> and wal-mart specials, um, suck. :)
[15:54] <Sysi> rtdos: that old software may be hard to get, bu you van install .deb:s manually quite easily
[15:54] <quantumbit> it makes no sense though, that a web browser with just one google.com page loaded, consumes almost 100mB ram
[15:54] <Sysi> man what typing
[15:54] <quantumbit> but it's the case
[15:54] <Sysi> but if you want*
[15:55] <Sysi> quantumbit:have you recently tried win98?
[15:55] <quantumbit> no
[15:55] <Sysi> you'd notice where all the ram goes
[15:56] <quantumbit> the fact that modern machines have lots of ram is not a reason to waste it where it's not required though.. economy is always a good principle
[15:56] <Sysi> i admit software in general is still bad, but we do have much more options and better user experience
[15:57] <Sysi> i assume you also aren't programmer?
[15:57] <quantumbit> some applications do require a lot of ram, some don't
[15:57] <rtdos> what kills me is that back then hp didn't even put an option in for more than 128Meg (it initially came with 64Meg)- only had 2 slots for ram, the other 2 slots were not solderd in for the wal-mart special.
[15:57] <quantumbit> i am:D
[15:57] <Sysi> i'm not
[15:57] <quantumbit> web browsing consumes huge amount of ram I think
[15:58] <Sysi> but i know how much effort it takes
[15:58] <quantumbit> esp. with all the modern dynamic components, scripts, and stuff
[15:58] <quantumbit> it's not much effort when you enjoy it:)
[15:58] <Sysi> i hardly ever use 1GB of ram even with new kubuntu
[15:59] <quantumbit> hm.. I take it you don't run many apps at once
[15:59] <Sysi> i don't consider that being much in kinda heavy use
[15:59] <quantumbit> with 512mb and kubuntu, im always on swap with just firefox+pidgin+wine+ a few xterms
[15:59] <rtdos> well, if we're talking ram: look at how programmers creatively took advantage of the small amount of ram in an atari 2600. but i digress. is there away to install stuff from the xubuntu archives on my machine using only a cd rom?
[15:59] <quantumbit> err xubuntu
[15:59] <Sysi> get adblock
[15:59] <quantumbit> i wouldnt even attempt kde D
[16:00] <quantumbit> I have it
[16:00] <Sysi> i've used kde with 512, not very bad
[16:00] <quantumbit> man, I dev'ed for microcontrollers with like 64 BYTES of ram total
[16:00] <quantumbit> and I can tell you you can design complex systems with it
[16:00] <Sysi> but think, 512 isn't too much for WinXP and it's 10 years old
[16:00] <rtdos> with dependencies and recommended packages ?
[16:01] <Sysi> rtdos: you need to download all of them and put to that cd
[16:01] <Sysi> then install with dpkg -i
[16:02] <quantumbit> nah.. you have to admit.. when sales persons tell you.. 3GHz 2GB will be good for basic stuff like word processing etc.. but you need more for multimedia games etc..
[16:02] <quantumbit> come on.. in the 60's people were doing text processing just fine
[16:02] <Sysi> rtdos: you need to have packages for right ubuntu version ofc
[16:02] <Sysi> quantumbit: technology goes on, let's use it
[16:03] <Sysi> *goes forward
[16:03] <quantumbit> yea
[16:03] <Sysi> i still think most of software is pretty bad
[16:03] <quantumbit> I like low footprint software
[16:03] <charlie-tca> hm, I remember using my old boss talking about using text processors in the '60's. He waited seconds to minutes to see what he typed
[16:03] <Sysi> doing good is expensive
[16:03] <quantumbit> cuz it's slick, usually designed to be simple & efficient
[16:04] <quantumbit> with probably much more elegant & flexible code base too
[16:04] <Sysi> i use apps that i like
[16:05] <Sysi> i have intel dual core, i don't consider this modern after buying left4dead
[16:06] <Sysi> lga775 socket cpu:s are expensive :/
[16:06]  * quantumbit takes a look at 'top' output
[16:07] <Sysi> with FF, transmission, thunar and terminal, gnome-system-monitor says 226MiB
[16:12] <quantumbit> I realise I'm a linux fanatic
[16:13] <quantumbit> I have hardly used any other OS in years
[16:13] <quantumbit> or maybe like 5min top once :D
[16:14] <Sysi> i started again when win7 came, but it'n not really that much better than XP
[16:14] <Sysi> XP was my reson to get linux, i just hated it
[16:15] <quantumbit> yea.. last regular use of a MS OS for me was win98
[16:15] <quantumbit> but that's when I started with linux too
[16:16] <quantumbit> at the time I had a dual boot with many different distroes shiftin' in and out at a high rate :D
[16:16] <Sysi> i installed hardy about when 8.10 was released, "newbie"
[16:17] <Sysi> this year i've only reinstalled this machine few times :P
[16:17] <quantumbit> ya I settled for simplicity myself
[16:18] <rtdos> dpkg -i ? does it automatically detect the cd rom drive ?
[16:18] <Sysi> you propably need to mount it and point to packages
[16:19] <quantumbit> you have synaptic in 6.04?
[16:19] <Sysi> btw it's actually 6.06
[16:20] <charlie-tca> and, yes, it did have synaptic package manager
[16:20] <quantumbit> strange:D
[16:20] <rtdos> not sure if i have synaptic in 6.06 or not, i doubt it.
[16:20] <quantumbit> I remember back then ubuntu was shipping free CDs
[16:20] <rtdos> if it did then yes i do. :)
[16:23] <charlie-tca> rtdos: you do know 6.06 server edition is end of support in June 2011, right? Desktop has not had support since 2009
[16:25] <quantumbit> you could try microkernels on that machine.. or distroes specifically targeted at low spec hardware maybe
[16:25] <quantumbit> havent researched that in a while
[16:33] <rtdos> yes, charlie-tca: this machine doesn't even have internet, the hardware specs are low (128Meg 700Mhz Celeron) mainly use it for games and word processing.
[16:34] <rtdos> microkernals, quantumbit? i didn't think linux was capable?
[16:34] <wizardslovak> hello people
[16:35] <wizardslovak> i have settup ssh but is there possibility to actually see desktop
[16:36] <wizardslovak> both machines are xubuntu
[16:38] <rtdos> where would i d/l the archived packages / repositories for 6.06 ?
[16:39] <charlie-tca> rtdos: MIght look at Lubuntu for an up-to-date distro. It is based on Ubuntu, using lxde, which is very low resources
[16:40] <rtdos> but it requires 256Meg, doesn't it?
[16:42] <charlie-tca> rtdos: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/
[16:42] <charlie-tca> but there are none for Xubuntu 6.06, only for Ubuntu 6.06
[16:42] <charlie-tca> !lubuntu
[16:42] <charlie-tca> It should need 64MB ram
[16:45] <rtdos> thanks, charlie-tca i'll check it out.
[17:14] <sphereoid> is there a way to securely wipe a hard drive with xubuntu?
[17:16] <charlie-tca> Same as with any linux distro, yes
[17:16] <charlie-tca> !shred
[17:16] <charlie-tca> !wipe
[17:16] <sleek> is there a way after the xubuntu install to set a passphrase for my encrypted home directory?
[17:17] <charlie-tca> sphereoid: use either wipe or shred
[17:38] <error21> I can`t install gcc
[18:42] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 17 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend.
[18:45] <quantumbit> what are these meeting?
[18:48] <charlie-tca> they are meetings to discuss what xubuntu is doing, keep users informed of xubuntu's decisions, and today to verify the project leader
[18:49] <Sysi> i could join.. haven't attended even in loco meetings for ages
[18:50] <charlie-tca> heh, yes you could
[18:50] <charlie-tca> I am going to attend today
[18:51] <charlie-tca> quantumbit: the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:02] <MichealH> charlie-tca: Its time?
[19:02] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:02] <MichealH> charlie-tca: Shall I open the meeting?
[19:03] <charlie-tca> no, I will chair
[19:03] <MichealH> Okies
[19:18] <bcgrown> what do i need to (re)install to connect to network file shares?  My "Service type" list in the "Connect to Server" dialog is empty
[19:21] <WebDawg> heh
[19:21] <WebDawg> bcgrown You prolly need samba or cifs clients.
[19:23] <bcgrown> WebDawg: I wonder what I did, because I had them working at one point :/
[19:23] <WebDawg> You try testing them at commandline?
[19:23] <bcgrown> WebDawg: no...  actually what I want right no is SFTP,  but don't I just need ssh for that?  i definitely have ssh..
[19:25] <WebDawg> I thought their was a sftp binary but I could be wrong.
[19:25] <bcgrown> yep, but i already have that.  it's just Gigolo that seems to be confused
[19:26] <WebDawg> You got me atm man.
[19:31] <vinnl> You can also install a dedicated FTP client like gftp bcgrown
[19:31] <bcgrown> vinnl: i want to have my shares permanently mounted as part of my filesystem though
[19:32] <bcgrown> I'm pretty sure gigolo+thunar can do that,  same as gnome/nautilus does.   mine seems to have forgotten how, though.
[19:32] <bcgrown> well... semi-permanently, that is
[19:32] <vinnl> bcgrown, ah, yeah, Gigolo should be able to do that
[19:33] <vinnl> Not sure what the problem is
[19:33] <bcgrown> tried uninstalling, deleteing ~/.config/gigolo, and reinstalling,  but no dice
[19:43] <bcgrown> apparently i was missing gvfs-backends
[20:10] <yondering> hola.  anyone know if xubuntu 10.10 has pulseaudio enabled by default?
[20:11] <charlie-tca> yes
[20:11] <yondering> thank you
[20:11] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[20:43] <q_a_z_steve> cody-somerville, are you also in ##windows or ##windows-server by chance?
[20:44] <q_a_z_steve> stupid XP giving me fits again.
[21:09] <cody-somerville> q_a_z_steve, No sorry. I don't even have any computers that run Windows.
[21:16] <q_a_z_steve> good place to be, unfortunately I support them still
[21:23] <Alexander> Query: Is there a way to change the background image for the login screen? I am tired of looking at blue skies and clouds.
[21:26] <Alexander> hello?
[21:28] <bazhang> Alexander, gdm themes?
[21:30] <Alexander> Is it gdm? I thought everything was xfce4. (I am not very good at this)
[21:31] <Alexander> I just installed the iso of 10.10 onto my netbook, so it's whatever the default settings are.
[21:31] <bazhang> Alexander, the netbook edition? of xubuntu?
[21:33] <Alexander> No. Just the default edition (desktop edition?)
[21:33] <bazhang> there are a ton of gdm themes
[21:33] <bazhang> !info sabily-gdm-themes
[21:34] <bazhang> apt-cache search gdm reveals quite a number
[21:37] <Alexander> okay, so I go to gdmsetup and it gives me login screen settings, but nothing to change the theme
[21:37] <Alexander> just default session, show list of users, etc