[12:40] <njin> bug 981540
[12:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981540 in linux "[gm45] False GPU lockup EIR: 0x00000010 PGTBL_ER: 0x00000001" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981540
[13:01] <coutts99_> bug 981087
[13:01] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981087 in thunderbird "thunderbird exits if i'm scrolling down the text of an e-mail" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981087
[13:17] <ockham> can someone provide me with an answer to this question: http://askubuntu.com/questions/121986/how-do-i-report-printing-related-bugs
[13:21]  * penguin42 looks
[13:22] <penguin42> ockham: Can you describe your bug a little?
[13:22] <ockham> penguin42: if Libreoffice's printing workflow language is set to PDF, printing appears to be quite a bit slower than if it's set to a Postscript level.
[13:22] <ockham> what seems to be particularly long with the PDF worflow is the time between individual pages of a multi-page document
[13:23] <ockham> that time is much shorter if I'm using Postscript workflow
[13:24] <penguin42> oh hmm - let me try and write an answer in ask ubuntu and then lets go from there
[13:24] <ockham> penguin42: sounds good!
[13:25] <ockham> btw, as ubuntu-bug already offers audio, storage, and display related problems (all with quite complex stacks), maybe it should also offer printing related?
[13:28] <ockham> penguin42: ^
[13:28] <ockham> *preparing to file wishlist bug against apport*
[13:30] <penguin42> ockham: OK, see that
[13:32] <penguin42> ockham: Seems a reasonable request
[13:37] <ockham> penguin42: just filed bug 981586 for that
[13:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981586 in apport "Apport should offer printing related bugs on startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981586
[13:38] <ockham> wait, let me change that bug title
[13:38] <ockham> better: bug 981586
[13:38] <ockham> hm, ubot only strikes once?
[13:39] <ockham> anyway, it's 'Apport should offer a "Printing related problems" option on startup' now
[13:40] <penguin42> yeh, just set the status on it
[13:43] <penguin42> ockham: OK, so going back to your problem - if you get libreoffice to produce a postscript or to export to a PDF file how are the speeds when producing and viewing them?
[13:44] <ockham> penguin42: i'll try that in a sec
[13:49] <ockham> both seem equally fast
[13:51] <ockham> btw, what's also funny is that i can't seem to select postscript level 3 -- it always goes back to level 2 when opening the settings dialog again...
[13:52] <penguin42> ockham: OK, I don't know the difference between 2 and 3; ok, so if I get this right you're saying printing pdf is taking much longer than printing postscript, but producing either ps or pdf from libreoffice takes about the same time?
[13:52] <ockham> penguin42: yup
[13:53] <penguin42> ockham: OK, so now you produced the pdf and ps files  if you print the files do they take similar times or does the pdf still take a lot longer? (Oh and when we say a lot longer, can you give me some idea of the two times)
[13:54] <ockham> penguin42: the problem is, i don't have the relevant printer available right now...
[13:54] <penguin42> haha ok, well that's what I'd try - are we talking seconds or minutes?
[13:55] <ockham> TBH i'm doing this for someone else. person says it's 2 vs 10 min for 30 pages
[13:55] <penguin42> ok, that's a big difference
[13:55] <penguin42> ockham: What type of printer?
[13:56] <ockham> HP photosmart C4380
[13:56] <ockham> as for the driver, cups says  hpcups 3.11.7
[13:56] <ockham> connected via wifi
[13:56] <ockham> but that's probably the kind of stuff i should probably fill into a cups bug now?
[13:57] <penguin42> ockham: Yeh
[13:58] <penguin42> ockham: I can think of a few reasons; if the pdf file is much larger then maybe that's the issue; or maybe it always converts the pdf to postscript internally that takes a bit longer; but then the other thought is that inkjets have a lot of different modes - especially the photo ones where they adjust the different qualities and stuff, and I'm just wondering if it's making different choices on the two routes
[13:59] <ockham> penguin42: that's about what i figured too, but hey, why not let uptream ponder this?
[14:00] <ockham> ;-)
[14:00] <ockham> btw, my sample pdfs that i just generated are about 3 times smaller than the corresponding ps files
[14:02] <penguin42> ockham: They probably won't ponder it too much unless you can give them a sample that exhibits it
[14:02] <penguin42> ockham: are his pdf's huge?
[14:03] <ockham> penguin42: i guess no; just ODTs with no photos etc
[14:03] <penguin42> oh, ok that's very odd
[14:17] <ockham> penguin42: ok, posted bug 981620
[14:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981620 in cups "Printing a LibreOffice document via PDF workflow is much slower than with PostScript workflow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981620
[14:18] <ockham> (and bug 981606 along the way)
[14:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981606 in libreoffice "Cannot select Postscript level 3 printing workflow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981606
[14:20] <penguin42> ockham: That might be printer specific - so you probably need to add some more information; e.g. printer that the libreoffice currently has selected?
[14:28] <ockham> you mean that latter Postscript level bug? or the other (PDF vs PS) one?
[14:29] <penguin42> the postscript level bug
[14:33] <ockham> added printer information
[15:17] <coutts99_> bug #981656
[15:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981656 in linux "le kernel paging request at b696c010 (dup-of: 981655)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981656
[15:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981655 in linux "BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at b696c010" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981655
[15:17] <coutts99_> bug #981657
[15:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 981657 in linux "le kernel paging request at b696c010 (dup-of: 981655)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981657
[15:19] <penguin42> coutts99: Those are all from the same user, but the other 2 versions of the bug have much better back traces
[15:33] <coutts99_> penguin42: i've makred tha later two as duplicates of the first
[15:34] <coutts99_> penguin42: im new, is that the best thing to do? :)
[15:34] <penguin42> coutts99_: Normally we don't dupe kernel bugs, it might be worth putting comments in to say they're similar
[15:36] <coutts99_> penguin42: ok, can i de-deuplicate them? I thought they were all the same bug reported multiple times
[15:37] <penguin42> coutts99_: Yeh I agree in this case, although for kernel ones best to ask in #ubuntu-kernel, also although normally we dupe to lowest number, it's best to dupe to the one with the best description/logs - in the oops text
[15:38] <coutts99_> penguin42: ok, noted
[15:43] <penguin42> coutts99_: if the oops text absolutely match it's a pretty good guess
[17:52] <bmoresbest55> i am having a bug where the computer shuts down almost all the way. it goes almost into a sleep/hibernate mode instead of shutting down. everything is off except for the power. is anyone else having this same problem?
[17:56] <dlentz> bmoresbest55, is this a laptop?
[17:56] <bmoresbest55> yes
[17:56] <dlentz> what kind?
[17:56] <bmoresbest55> dell m1530
[17:59] <dlentz> mayb eit's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/944772
[17:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 944772 in linux "shutdown does not work" [Medium,Confirmed]
[18:00] <penguin42> it can often be very BIOS specific
[18:02] <bmoresbest55> BIOS? is there any way to modify it or anything else to fix?
[20:20] <wmp> hello
[20:20] <wmp> maybe in 12.04 i found bug in locale
[20:20] <wmp> but - i dont know ;)
[20:21] <wmp> in my system  mon_decimal_point is empty


[00:40] <^Mike\b> When people talk about "the Ayatana project", is that a collaboration between Canonical staff, maybe GNOME people, or staff from other distros, volunteers from the community, etc? Or is it primarily Canonical staff, and the project is really a team within that company?
[00:58] <mhall119> ^Mike\b: Ayatana is project name used in Canonical for DX innovation
[00:58] <^Mike\b> What's DX?
[00:58] <mhall119> desktop experience
[00:58] <^Mike\b> right-o
[00:59] <mhall119> so Ayatana takes it through design and prototyping, and eventually a product emerges from that
[00:59] <^Mike\b> Do you know if it is one group of people, or is it more like projects by various teams fall under that umbrella label?
[01:00] <mhall119> it's people from multiple projects that Canonical works on
[01:00] <^Mike\b> okay, thanks
[01:00] <mhall119> no problem
[01:08] <mpt> Ayatana is to Ubuntu as leprechauns are to Ireland
[14:17] <sgringwe> Hello. Is anybody able to help me with a bug i just reported for libunity? Bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/libunity/+bug/997659
[14:18] <sgringwe> !help
[14:18] <sgringwe> !patience
[14:21] <sgringwe> Interesting, I just disabled MPRIS code, and now even the metadata is not showing up. It doesn't even show media controls. I guess MusicPlayer as a whole is not working.
[14:26] <sgringwe> aha! I had to call player.export()
[14:28] <sgringwe> Everything works fine now


[00:49] <c_smith> is anyone here any good with the configuration of Conky?
[00:52] <tgm4883> I haven't configured conky in quite a while
[00:56] <c_smith> tgm4883, can you tell me what the recommended way to go about fixing a broken network display in Conky? currently that part is useless (shows no information)
[00:59] <c_smith> tgm4883, or is that beyond your ability?
[01:01] <tgm4883> c_smith, is it in LUA? or is it running a command to get it?
[01:02] <c_smith> this is the scheme it seems to use: ${wireless_essid wlan0}
[01:03] <c_smith> it's got the wlan0 correct afaik.
[01:03] <tgm4883> your wireless card shows up as wlan0?
[01:03] <tgm4883> check ifconfig
[01:03] <c_smith> kk
[01:04] <c_smith> yep, that's correct.
[01:04] <c_smith> there's also lo and eth0, both of which are unused.
[01:05] <c_smith> wlan0 is what I intend to get shown.
[01:05] <tgm4883> ok
[01:05] <tgm4883> is it showing anything?
[01:07] <c_smith> Nothing
[01:07] <tgm4883> If you run conky from the command line, is it printing anything that indicates what's wrong?
[01:07] <c_smith> IP is unknown, up/down speed is 0. all of which I know are incorrect.
[01:07] <c_smith> let me check.
[01:08] <c_smith> strange, I got another conky instance I thought I deleted, as I thought it failed, it works better than the previous one! XD
[01:09] <c_smith> Net speed works on this one.
[01:11] <c_smith> brb
[01:13]  * c_smith will be installing xubuntu on his desktop soon and installing the Xubuntu-desktop package on this pc.
[01:17] <c_smith> tgm4883, care to see a podcast I participated in?
[02:06] <c_smith> bkerensa, you here?
[02:37] <c_smith> half an hour in, and nobody in the meeting.
[02:52] <c_smith> well, it looks like the meeting isn't happening.
[02:54] <nibalizer> c_smith: i'll meet iwth you
[02:54] <nibalizer> :)
[02:54] <c_smith> eh, I need to get started on some configurations, so I better go.
[02:55] <c_smith> and I intend to install xubuntu 12.04 too
[03:23] <bkerensa> Hello
[03:23] <bkerensa> My internet was down
[03:23] <bkerensa> :(
[04:15] <bkerensa> hello tpdd
[04:15] <bkerensa> :D
[04:23] <tgm4883> bkerensa, sorry, couldn't resist
[04:23] <bkerensa> tgm4883: yeah :P
[04:24] <bkerensa> I typed it much too fast... Been really busy lately so lots of typos in my e-mails
[04:24] <bkerensa> tgm4883: got some pretty cool swag this time
[04:24] <tgm4883> aw, I didn't win the social giveaway
[04:24] <tgm4883> probably because I tried to cheat
[04:24] <bkerensa> no idea... its check stuff thats all I know
[04:24] <bkerensa> :P
[04:25] <tgm4883> yea, I said "oh yea, of course I did that"
[04:25] <bkerensa> bkero: Do I need to pickup shirts from you this week or will you drop them by?
[04:25] <tgm4883> for like 4 of them
[04:37] <bkerensa> hi tpdd
[04:37] <tpdd> Hello
[04:38] <bkerensa> tppd: Just idling or you looking for help or info about the LoCo? :)
[04:39] <tpdd> Well just hanging out.  I joined the loco awhile back and I'm on the list.  Just looking at places to participate
[04:39] <tpdd> Not being around Portland I have not made it to any meetings
[04:42] <cy1> tpdd: Where you located?
[04:42] <tpdd> Newport
[04:43] <cy1> Woah, all the way down by the acquarium?
[04:45] <tpdd> Ya.  It's not really all that far to Portland but the traffic is what makes it a long drive
[04:46] <cy1> Pretty far to bicycle that's for sure.
[04:46] <bkerensa> tpdd: :) well if you happen to be in the area on the 29th we are having a release party for 12.04
[04:47] <bkerensa> ./namebench.py -x
[04:47] <bkerensa> eck
[04:47] <bkerensa> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-or/1609/detail/ <-- is the event url
[04:47] <bkerensa> there will be free food and beverage
[04:48] <tpdd> That sound fun.  How big is your turnout usually
[04:52] <c_smith> hello
[04:52] <c_smith> bkerensa, are your connection issues still persisting?
[05:46] <bkerensa> c_smith: no
[05:46] <bkerensa> that was hours ago
[05:46] <bkerensa> tpdd: 25-30
[05:46] <c_smith> ah, I see.
[05:47] <c_smith> bkerensa, I may be able to make it up to the Release Party IF I am able to hitch a ride with someone from Salem who is going, Taxi is out of the question (not enough money) and Salem buses aren't running that day.
[05:48] <c_smith> bkerensa, also, care to see an interesting podcast I was in?
[05:48] <bkerensa> c_smith: might ask about a ride on the mailing list... perhaps jvlb or someone
[05:48] <bkerensa> c_smith: sure
[05:49] <c_smith> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsazV3jXjw4&feature=g-all-esi&context=G25178daFAAAAAAAAGAA
[05:49] <orebuntu_> c_smith's tiny URL is http://tinyurl.com/7a4yk97
[05:49] <c_smith> bkerensa, I sent JVLB an email, gonna wait to hear back to try others.
[05:55] <bkerensa> c_smith: I hope jvlb comes and hope you can make it
[05:57] <c_smith> yep, same here.
[06:11] <goddard> im gonna go
[06:11] <goddard> do i need to sign anything?
[06:28] <c_smith> goddard, as in to the release party?
[06:31] <bkerensa> goddard: Although not required we are asking people to RSVP so we know how many people are coming for (Food/Beverage) and it also helps for when we do team reports to the LoCo Council
[06:31] <bkerensa> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-or/1609/detail/
[08:44] <goddard> I tried to register but i got an error when trying ot login
[15:50] <nathwill> !help
[15:50] <orebuntu_> Commands: 8ball about admin asshat bc blame cowsay date dc distro echo fail figlet fire fob fortune google googlefight googlepage group hacker hangman help insult limerick lunch me msg notice ping praise proverb quote remindme s score seen slogan tardhat topic uptime urban weather whip wikipath wikipedia wiktionary win woot wtf yoda zima
[15:51] <nathwill> !proverb
[18:32] <bkerensa> nathwill: ping
[18:41] <c_smith> hello
[18:42] <bkerensa> Good Morning
[18:42] <c_smith> how goes it?
[18:43] <c_smith> getting ready to set No-IP up on my desktop, which will take a while since I have to start from scratch with Kubuntu since I messed something up previously.
[18:44] <c_smith> bkerensa, if I had to get a new GPU, which would you recommend, ATI or Nvidia?
[18:44] <bkerensa> c_smith: Good... Just getting into the morning grind... Working on a new wordpress site for one of my childhood friends who now has a successful band :P he still has to pay though ;)
[18:45] <c_smith> nice.
[18:45] <bkerensa> c_smith: idk... I have a Intel GPU and I see zero difference in my experience but then again I dont use anything that requires a GPU
[18:46] <c_smith> I have a few games that my Intel GPU doesn't handle, but I'm not replacing that, in fact, I can't replace it, I'm replacing the majorly outdated GPU in my desktop (it must have come out in the XP days)
[19:11] <goddard> who uses Firefox over Chrome?
[19:13] <nathwill> yo
[19:20] <c_smith> I don't,
[19:20] <c_smith> and hey, nathwill
[19:21] <bkerensa> nathwill: fyi your name is in the release notes for 12.04
[19:21] <bkerensa> ;)
[19:21] <nathwill> say whaaaaa?!
[19:21] <bkerensa> nathwill: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Credits/Developers
[19:21] <nathwill> that can only be a bad thing...
[19:21] <bkerensa> your famous and stuff
[19:21] <bkerensa> :P
[19:21] <nathwill> pfft
[19:21] <nathwill> all of 5 people will see it
[19:21] <bkerensa> LOL
[19:22] <bkerensa> nathwill: I am sure far more then five people have seen it and many more will
[19:22] <bkerensa> ;)
[19:22] <nathwill> well then, i'm doomed
[19:22] <c_smith> rofl
[19:23] <nathwill> that's cool though
[19:23] <nathwill> i'm stoked on the 12.04 release. a buddy of mine i haven't seen in ages, and don't talk to about linux just randomly was running Ubuntu on his laptop when i saw him this weekend
[19:24]  * c_smith is enjoying Xubuntu 12.04 with GLX Dock and Conky
[19:24] <nathwill> and my jaw just dropped
[19:25] <c_smith> who was it that gave the Bytesize bug workshop at the Global Jam?
[19:25] <bkerensa> :P
[19:25] <bkerensa> a Debian Wizard by the name is slangasek
[19:25] <bkerensa> name of*
[19:25] <c_smith> ah, I see.
[19:25] <slangasek> wouldn't that have been bdmurray's?
[19:26] <slangasek> mine wasn't about bitesized bugs, but about package anatomy, no?
[19:26] <c_smith> Ah, Bdmurray is who I'm trying to remember the name of.
[19:26] <bkerensa> oh
[19:26] <c_smith> the package anatomy was really useful, btw.
[19:26] <slangasek> good to hear :)
[19:26] <c_smith> and insightful as to the "mystical" nature of debian packages :P
[19:27] <c_smith> anywho, I got a chance to talk on Mumble to another Canonical employee, Allan Pope (hope I spelled that right)
[19:28] <sbeattie> Alan (only one l)
[19:28] <c_smith> gotcha.
[19:28] <c_smith> anywho, he had some useful info.
[19:29] <c_smith> the topic on the podcast at the time was about Precise Pangolin upgrades.
[19:30] <c_smith> aaaaand I screwed my desktop up just now. >.<
[19:30] <c_smith> laptop is safe, though.
[19:31] <bkerensa> sbeattie: or just popey :D
[19:32] <c_smith> I'm surprised at how similar Jono and popey's accents were.
[19:32] <c_smith> ofc, they are both British, so that shouldn't be a surprise.
[20:36] <c_smith> bkerensa, are you here, or out to lunch?
[20:37] <bkerensa> c_smith: I'm here but getting read to take lunch... Whats up
[20:39] <c_smith> ok, Just wanted to let you know I might just end up making it to the Release Party after all, JVLB intends to go and he said if he does he would be able to give me a ride up there.
[20:48] <bkerensa> ok good stuff
[22:01] <nathwill> *yawn*
[22:02] <nathwill> mondays, my goodness
[23:38] <bkerensa> lol
[23:42]  * c_smith is back from errands


[06:16] <MJBrune> hey
[06:16] <MJBrune> anyone here
[06:16] <MJBrune> I am having sound troubles
[06:16] <MJBrune> I can hear sound but its really quiet and everything in the sound mixer is turned up for both alsa and pulse
[06:18] <orngjce223> Generic "is this thing on" question: Have you checked the volume level on your external speakers, if there is any?
[06:23] <MJBrune> orngjce223: yes I checked both
[06:28] <MJBrune> orngjce223: is there anyway to increase my volume past 100%?
[06:28] <MJBrune> i know in vlc you can go to 400%
[06:28] <MJBrune> is there something like that for the whole system?
[06:28] <orngjce223> Unfortunately, I don't know of anything like that.
[06:29] <MJBrune> so i have to run everything though vlc to get decent sound?
[06:30] <orngjce223> Try #opensourcemusicians they might know of a software amplifier you can use or something. I'm stumped :/
[08:08] <aatk> MJBrune: are you sure the speakers are okay, have you tried plugging another device in and checked cables?
[08:09] <aatk> I've spent hours trying to fix quiet audio to find the cable was damaged in the end
[08:23] <MJBrune> aatk: yes I have
[08:23] <MJBrune> aatk: I have checked the ports and cords
[08:24] <MJBrune> its 100% software
[11:09] <MJBrune> How can I make xfce terminal start at 120 by 30 instead of 80 by 24?
[11:23] <Sysi> MJBrune: mousepad ~/.config/Terminal/terminalrc
[11:24] <MJBrune> Sysi: ty
[13:52] <xubuntu337> hi
[13:52] <GridCube> !hi
[13:53] <xubuntu337> !hi
[13:53] <xubuntu337> !help
[14:16] <jnsl_> is there a compiz switch for natty?
[14:24] <charlie-tca> compiz is not installed by default in Xubuntu
[16:12] <nasrullah> hi to all
[16:12] <nasrullah> how to make parole player play vcd
[16:51] <nasrullah> hi
[17:16] <derpadong> Anyone alive?
[17:17]  * KM0201 is alive
[17:17] <derpadong> Ok
[17:17] <derpadong> Got a question
[17:17] <KM0201> shoot.
[17:18] <derpadong> Why does everything lok so big when in 1360x768 resolution?
[17:18] <derpadong> look*
[17:18] <KM0201> what looks big?
[17:18] <KM0201> and are you sure you're at 1360x768
[17:19] <derpadong> Firefox and Yes Im sure. Ive set the TV to it and Xubuntu
[17:20] <KM0201> hmm, i dunno.. what exactly looks "big" in firefox? the buttons, the menu, ?  or does the whole OS look larger than normal?
[17:21] <derpadong> Whole OS looks larfer than normal
[17:21] <derpadong> larger*
[17:22] <KM0201> derpadong: and yu're sure the OS is using htat resolutioon?
[17:23] <derpadong> Positive
[17:23] <KM0201> hmm
[17:23] <KM0201> i don't use Xubuntu.
[17:23] <KM0201> but.. i think there's a "Zoom" feature.. you've probably got that set to high.
[17:24] <KM0201> Unit193: does xfce have that zoom feature?
[17:24] <KM0201> i know gnomme does
[17:24] <derpadong> What are you using then?
[17:24] <KM0201> lxde
[17:24] <Unit193> derpadong: Anything fun with the DPI?
[17:24] <KM0201> the most awesome-sauce GUI there is.
[17:24] <KM0201> lol
[17:25] <derpadong> Not that I know of
[17:25] <derpadong> I will have to test it out later
[17:25] <derpadong> Im going to probably reinstall Ubuntu
[17:25] <derpadong> Or just use xfce
[17:26] <derpadong> with xubuntu
[17:26] <derpadong> Im going to dual boot
[17:26] <Unit193> Are you going to be using this on TV?
[17:26] <derpadong> Yes
[17:26] <Unit193> !mythbuntu
[17:27] <Unit193> Is that maybe somethting you would bbe looking for?
[17:27] <Unit193> I think it's switching to XFCE too
[17:27] <derpadong> I know what mythbuntu is
[17:27] <derpadong> Im using this for a computer
[17:27] <derpadong> Not TV shows and whatnot
[17:28] <Unit193> Alright, I can only think of res and DPI right now.
[17:29] <derpadong> KM0201, whats this zoom feature on ubuntu?
[17:29] <derpadong> lol
[17:29] <KM0201> derpadong: it's a setting in nautilus
[17:29] <KM0201> (i think thunar has a similar one)
[17:30] <derpadong> Hm. Link me?
[17:30] <derpadong> lol
[17:31] <KM0201> it's in thunar
[17:33] <KM0201> derpadong: hold on, i'm installing thunar
[17:33] <KM0201>  hmm, nope
[17:33] <derpadong> Ok
[17:33] <KM0201> i know nautilus does though
[21:10] <Mandrew> hi which network manager is it that you guys have in xubuntu?
[21:11] <Sysi> networkmanager used through nm-applet
[21:11] <Sysi> wicd should work too
[21:15] <Mandrew> so its called nm-applet the network manager?
[21:16] <Mandrew> that cant be right or am i misunderstanding you sir?
[21:16] <Unit193> That's correct
[21:16] <charlie-tca> no, it is called network-manager or maybe gnome-network-manager
[21:16] <Mandrew> that is being used in xubuntu?
[21:16] <charlie-tca> yes
[21:17] <Unit193> *The command seems to be nm-applet
[21:17] <Mandrew> so xfce dont have a special one
[21:17] <Mandrew> ok tnx
[21:17] <Mandrew> i got to go my belly is killing me :S
[21:17] <charlie-tca> correct. Xfce uses either network-manager or wicd, depending on the distribution itself
[21:17] <Mandrew> ok
[21:18] <Mandrew> so what do i need to get it to show up in the applet
[21:18] <charlie-tca> If you went and got xfce and tried to install it, you would find you need to install a distribution to get xfce to do anything useful
[21:19] <Mandrew> sorry need to go my belly is really hurting, tnx for the help
[21:24] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 35 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[23:14] <charlie-tca> !nothelping
[23:16] <Mandrew> ?
[23:16] <Mandrew> whats not helping?
[23:18] <beardygnome> I think charlie is testing a bot response
[23:18] <Mandrew> aaah
[23:18] <beardygnome> !nothelping
[23:18] <Mandrew> !help
[23:18] <charlie-tca> !nothelping #xubuntu is <reply> Please do not disrupt the channel with off-topic subjects. If you are not using Xubuntu, you are not helping this user.
[23:19] <Mandrew> !nothelping
[23:19] <beardygnome> !nothelping
[23:19] <zenrox> !spam
[23:19] <charlie-tca> it ain't working yet
[23:22] <charlie-tca> 19
[23:22] <Mandrew> 20
[23:22] <Mandrew> :P
[23:26] <charlie-tca> !guidelines
[23:29] <Mandrew> charlie-tca, are you playing around with the ChanServ ? ;)
[23:29] <charlie-tca> no, I am piecing together a new factoid
[23:30] <Mandrew> is there like a cmd for sub channels?
[23:31] <charlie-tca> We can limit factoids to specific channels
[23:31] <charlie-tca> !behelpful
[23:31] <Mandrew> like /me but something in the line of /sub-channel
[23:31] <Mandrew> ok
[23:32] <charlie-tca> I don't think so
[23:32] <Mandrew> the /me thing is actually the only one i know hehe
[23:32] <charlie-tca> there is /msg ubottu to talk to the bot without the channel being in the middle
[23:33] <Mandrew> ok that sound just even more lonely then sitting and talking to the computer :S
[23:34] <Mandrew> is there a cmd guide or cmd reference guide for irc?
[23:35] <charlie-tca> yes, there is
[23:35] <charlie-tca> !guidelines
[23:35] <Mandrew> ooh cool
[23:35] <charlie-tca> oh, but that isn't really the cmd guide. Let me find that
[23:38] <Mandrew> this one is a good one: Don't ask for operator privileges
[23:40] <charlie-tca> yeah
[23:40] <charlie-tca> most commands will be found in http://www.irchelp.org/, which is a lot of reading
[23:40] <GridCube> indeed
[23:40] <Mandrew> i have a channel that they keep giving me "talk privileges" dont even know what it is, but i really dont think it necessary for other then the OPs to have special privileges
[23:41] <charlie-tca> This is easier, but do not use away, please
[23:41] <charlie-tca> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/ircprimer.html#Commands
[23:42] <charlie-tca> talk privileges in some channels is needed just so they can see what you are typing.
[23:42] <charlie-tca> some channels do not allow "anyone" to talk, so they give special permissions.
[23:43] <Mandrew> hehe charlie-tca i did test things in the settings panel ;) remember? didnt know it would spam the channel, just thought it would say something if someone sent me a PM or clicked on me
[23:43] <charlie-tca> yeah, such things happen. Normally, we tell you and you become aware of it
[23:44] <Mandrew> i was in like 15 channels and everyone got pissed off, not so much fun was it ;)
[23:44] <charlie-tca> heh
[23:45] <charlie-tca> I usually take mine down to just one or two channels for that stuff
[23:46] <Mandrew> i would have done that now in retrospect or just have opened a empty channel to try it out, but done is done
[23:46] <charlie-tca> if you take it down to just #xubuntu- channels, it is easier for everyone to see what happened, and we don't jump as much.
[23:46] <charlie-tca> yup
[23:48] <Mandrew> and the funny thing with away msg is that you never see it yourself but you discover it the hardway by being banned and not being able to come back ;)
[23:49] <Mandrew> charlie-tca, do you use nstapaper?
[23:49] <Mandrew> instapaper*
[23:49] <charlie-tca> no,
[23:49] <charlie-tca> don't know what that is
[23:50] <Mandrew> ok i was thinking there might be a app for that or some like it for linux
[23:50] <Mandrew> http://www.instapaper.com/
[23:51] <Mandrew> A simple tool to save web pages for reading later.
[23:51] <charlie-tca> There is one
[23:51] <charlie-tca> let me find it
[23:52] <Mandrew> there is? nice
[23:54] <Mandrew> i found it today and its a really good tool, now i have a bunch of good articles on my ipad
[23:54] <charlie-tca> httrack lets you save the website
[23:54] <charlie-tca> I don't know if it is the same, though
[23:55] <Mandrew> i think not, but i dd a string on google and i think i got some good hit
[23:55] <Mandrew> s
[23:55] <charlie-tca> I usually just click on File -> Save Page As... in firefox
[23:55] <charlie-tca> it saves a page and folder with the same name. Just click the page name and it opens it Firefox
[23:55] <Mandrew> the good thing with instapaper is that as soon a save it to one place i have it on all devices
[23:56] <charlie-tca> Then it is storing them in the cloud?
[23:56] <Mandrew> and if i need to help a friend, i just login to instapaper on the web
[23:56] <Mandrew> yea some like it
[23:57] <Mandrew> but i have it off line too
[23:57] <charlie-tca> I see.
[23:57] <charlie-tca> bbl
[23:57] <Mandrew> so i can read stuff when im abroad too without the need to go online
[23:57] <charlie-tca> got to run for a few minutes
[23:58] <Mandrew> ok you have a nice one
[23:58] <Mandrew> i might not be here later
[23:58] <Mandrew> getting tired
[23:58] <Mandrew> its late here


[08:54] <jam> manadart_, do you have write access to Thumper's grafana? I do, but we should make sure several people can see the details.
[08:56] <manadart_> jam: I assume I don't; none of the menus allow me to change anything.
[08:56] <jam> manadart_, you have to "sign in" from the little icon on the bottom left.
[10:06] <achilleasa> interestingly, the firewall worker has a per-machine watcher for the units, a per-application watcher etc. Any ideas why that is the case instead of watching all units, applications etc?
[10:07] <stickupkid> achilleasa, can only think of granularity
[10:07] <stickupkid> achilleasa, but even then it's a weak argument
[10:07] <achilleasa> but in a large model...
[10:07] <achilleasa> it's one watch loop (==goroutine) for each
[10:07] <stickupkid> achilleasa, we totally could optimise for that
[10:08] <stickupkid> achilleasa, yeah - hence my "weak argument"
[10:08] <achilleasa> yeap... that's my plan
[10:08] <achilleasa> because I need to also monitor spaces
[10:08] <achilleasa> manadart_: ^^^ this means getting a SpaceInfos API method
[10:10]  * stickupkid tries to make witty joke about manadart_ and a dentist
[10:11] <achilleasa> stickupkid: we will have to drill the bits we need out of the API. Good enough? :D
[10:11] <stickupkid> hahaha
[10:12] <stickupkid> achilleasa, I'm unsure, it might be a painful extraction
[10:12] <achilleasa> It will be painful, but I am pretty sure it will be the _crown_ of the refactoring process
[10:13] <stickupkid> I think you're just _filling_ in the pieces here
[10:14] <stickupkid> We might need to polish some methods and scale the requests to make it whiter than white
[10:18] <achilleasa> But as you know, when you introduce new APIs you might get teething problems that need to be addressed, rough edges that you need to be extracted etc
[10:18] <achilleasa> however working with FLOSS is fun
[11:41] <achilleasa> stickupkid: there is much more room for optimization it seems.... e.g here(https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/worker/firewaller/firewaller.go#L545-L564) we grab instance details for each machine in the model. However, the Instances method now (after the instancepoller changes) accepts a slice of instance.Id
[11:42] <achilleasa> soo 500 machines -> 500 API calls to the provider + 500 calls to grab the ingress rules (if we are using instance fw)
[11:43] <achilleasa> (although the latter calls might be already cached in the instance data depending on the provider)
[11:43] <stickupkid> nice and fast - lol
[11:44]  * achilleasa senses another long PR description coming up...
[12:16] <hml> stickupkid: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11901
[12:16] <hml> i have to look at static anaylsis and i think there are a couple of tests which need fixing. but can start on the review
[12:17] <hml> rebasing to your change was interesting.  i think i got it right
[14:13] <hml> stickupkid: approved 313
[15:00] <hml> fix for intermittent unit test failure, review please:  https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11903
[15:00] <hml> achilleasa, stickupkid, manadart_ ^^
[16:41] <hml> review please https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11904
[16:51] <achilleasa> hml: looking at 11904; ticked 11903
[16:51] <hml> achilleasa:  ty
[16:52] <achilleasa> btw, was the ports one caused by my refactoring changes? I wonder whether I missed a sort call somewhere
[16:56] <achilleasa> hml: left some comments
[17:26] <hml> achilleasa:  reading, ty
[17:28] <hml> achilleasa:  on the ports thing, is order important?  i was wondering, but it’s also a very old test
[17:43] <hml> achilleasa:  updated 11904


[03:43] <mup> PR snapcraft#3129 opened: schema: add support for the daemon-scope property on apps <Created by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3129>
[03:46] <davido_> Does this channel support issues with the snap management tool?
[03:46] <davido_> or is it only developer focused?
[03:58] <mup> PR snapcraft#3130 opened: build_providers: don't show an error if there are no auto-refresh changes <Created by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3130>
[06:25] <mborzecki> morning
[06:28] <mvo> hey mborzecki
[06:29] <mborzecki> mvo: hey, can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8604 ?
[06:29] <mup> PR #8604: interfaces/builtin/desktop: do not mount fonts cache on distros with quirks <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8604>
[06:30] <mvo> mborzecki: sure
[06:30] <mborzecki> mvo: thanks
[06:31] <mvo> mborzecki: thanks, done, we should also squash it I think
[06:31] <mborzecki> mvo:yeah, easier to cherry pick
[06:33] <mvo> +1
[06:45] <zyga> hey
[06:45] <mvo> good morning zyga
[06:48] <mborzecki> zyga: hey
[06:48] <zyga> how was Friday?
[06:49] <mborzecki> zyga: that opensuse go thing is weird, looks like there's a parallel install of go1.13 and go1.12, and the packages are conflicgting on who owns /usr/bin/go
[06:49] <zyga> yeah
[06:49] <zyga> maybe it is some kind of vendor change situation
[06:49] <zyga> but I really don't know
[06:49] <mborzecki> actually, afaiu both packages ship /usr/bin/go ?
[06:50] <zyga> I never experienced this myself
[06:50] <zyga> yeah
[06:51] <mborzecki> zyga: we also ahve `BuildRequires:  go >= 1.9` so go1.13 should be just fine, unless it doesn't provide go?
[06:52] <zyga> maybe something else depends
[06:52] <zyga> or maybe we just mass-upgrade
[06:52] <zyga> I didn't look that deeply
[06:53] <mborzecki> maybe it's confused when we ask for go >= 1.9 :/
[06:53] <mborzecki> it's funny, bc we end up with older go than we had :P
[06:53] <zyga> mmm, as in doesn't understand that dependency is satisfied?
[06:53] <zyga> I think that's unlikely
[06:53] <zyga> btw, suse does roll back packages normally
[06:53] <zyga> their repo points to the truth
[06:54] <zyga> and systems adjust
[06:54] <zyga> and it's not unheard of packages going to older releases
[06:54] <zyga> maybe that's what going on
[07:01] <pstolowski> morning
[07:01] <zyga> hey pawel
[07:01] <zyga> rainy morning
[07:01] <zyga> perfect for Monday
[07:06] <mvo> good morning pstolowski
[07:10] <pstolowski> zyga: same here
[07:29] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[07:30] <mborzecki> zyga: heh, zypper insists on installing 1.12, however what provides lists many options https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/P8NbcSGpRR/
[07:47] <pstolowski> mborzecki: your hunch about selinux denials & go doing enumeration of network interfaces was good.. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JQQDrTqsg8/
[07:47] <mborzecki> pstolowski: heh, no a question which part of the code does that
[07:48] <mborzecki> pstolowski: maybe pulling in net package triggers is
[07:49] <pedronis> it's the randutil code
[07:50] <mborzecki> omg, i see now, it's listing interfaces
[07:51] <pstolowski> ah
[07:51] <mborzecki> / mix in net interfacles hw addresses (MACs etc)
[07:51] <mborzecki>   if ifaces, err := net.Interfaces(); err == nil {
[07:51] <pedronis> but it's inderect
[07:51] <pedronis> it you neeed to be using RandDuration
[07:51] <pedronis> but we have a few places that use RandomDuration at the top level
[07:52] <pstolowski> it's only in my PR, apparently indirectly pulled (by configcore?)
[07:52] <pedronis> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/randutil/rand.go#L93
[07:54] <pedronis> pstolowski: let me think a second, we had something in mind that we might have forgotten
[07:55] <pstolowski> pedronis: for clarity, this is now triggered by snap cli, not snapd
[07:55] <pedronis> pstolowski: yes, we have worked toward a way to build configcore without pulling in the mangers
[07:55] <pedronis> but we haven't finished the work
[07:55] <pedronis> we really don't want the managers in snap
[07:55] <pedronis> this is showing that very indirectly
[07:56] <mvo> good morning pedronis !
[07:59] <pedronis> pstolowski: we need to finish that work
[08:00] <pedronis> and it's going to be a of a pain as we learned from nosecboot
[08:01] <mborzecki> zyga: addeda  note under https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8685#issuecomment-630014236 perhaps it's worth checking with go packaging guidelines or in #opensuse about the best solution
[08:01] <mup> PR #8685: opensuse: zypper --replacefiles <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8685>
[08:02] <pstolowski> mborzecki: btw i also saw some selinux denials that for some reason were not reported when using --checkpoint ..., only shown with ausearch -i -m AVC. i haven't investigated it and i don't know if it is anyhow related to my branch or also present in master - https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/TBRdbCFvkS/
[08:02] <zyga> mborzecki: 1:1
[08:03] <pedronis> pstolowski: am I making sense?
[08:05] <pstolowski> pedronis: yes, i remember the general idea/desire we discussed some time ago. don't know what does this entail yet
[08:05] <pedronis> pstolowski: mostly usinh build flags, except for some of the distro they don't quite work :/
[08:06] <pstolowski> pedronis: in this particular case, is there a concern of entropy? could we land this early-config PR by temporarily relaxing selinux check in these tests?
[08:07] <pedronis> pstolowski: temporarely for how long?  we really don't want to pull in the managers in snapd
[08:09] <pstolowski> pedronis: i can start working on proper fix today, just don't know how annoying/long will it be and for long early config will be blocked because of this
[08:09] <pedronis> pstolowski: to be clear I'm not too concerned about relaxing the selinux rules otoh is completely not the work we need
[08:19] <mborzecki> pstolowski: i saw those only in our tests though, i suspect it's because we repack the core snap and try to prevent the new squashfs from picking up default label (home_t) by passing unlabeled_t epxliciltly, however we also expliclity set the context=.. when mounting the squashfs, but that doesn't stop the denials due to unlabeled_t when running hooks to appear, i suspect there may be some race
[08:19] <mborzecki> between snapd accessing the contents and desired label set at the fs level
[08:20] <mborzecki> pstolowski: iirc if you go an ls -lZ those locations they have snappy_snap_t as expected
[08:24] <mup> PR snapd#8676 closed: tests: port interfaces-dbus to session-tool <Test Robustness> <Created by zyga> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8676>
[08:28] <pstolowski> mborzecki: ack
[08:44] <zyga> re
[08:44] <zyga> mborzecki: looking
[08:46] <zyga> mborzecki: nice work!
[08:47] <zyga> brb, tea and back into the fray :)
[08:56] <pedronis> pstolowski: are you blocked atm?
[08:57] <pstolowski> pedronis: no
[08:57] <zyga> and back
[08:58] <pedronis> pstolowski: we can chat after lunch about what to do, I have a meeting now
[08:58] <pstolowski> pedronis: ok, thanks
[09:17] <mup> PR snapd#8686 opened: o/devicestate: cleanup system actions supported by recover mode <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8686>
[10:02] <pedronis> pstolowski: can you setup a meeting before the standup when is convenient for you?
[10:03] <pstolowski> pedronis: will do
[10:09] <mup> PR snapd#8687 opened: [RFC] overlord: show what manager throws a state ensure error <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8687>
[10:19] <mup> PR snapd#8688 opened: [RC] state: log task errors in the journal too <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8688>
[10:46] <mup> PR snapd#8689 opened: o/devicestate: raise conflict when requesting system action while seeding <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8689>
[10:48] <mup> PR snapd#8690 opened: devicestate: do not report "ErrNoState" for seeded up <Simple 😃> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8690>
[11:14] <mborzecki> mvo: left a comment under https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8687#discussion_r426544961
[11:14] <mup> PR #8687: [RFC] overlord: show what manager throws a state ensure error <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8687>
[11:15] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, saw it, looks interessting. I guess we samuele to decide if we should consider this at all but yeah, if we do maybe doing something smarter would be good.
[11:16] <pedronis> yes, I think we touch this, it's better to the work, it shouldn' be too hard to something sensible, it will need more than 1 line though
[11:17] <mvo> pedronis: shall I close it given that it need to be reworked?
[11:18] <mborzecki> btw. devicemgr seems to dtrt, maybe it's enough we add error wrappers for other managers and still log it in stateengine?
[11:18] <mborzecki> xerrors would be nice too
[11:19] <mup> PR snapd#8688 closed: [RFC] state: log task errors in the journal too <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <Closed by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8688>
[11:19] <mborzecki> it captures the frame info so we'd have exact line in the manager
[11:19] <mvo> mborzecki: nice
[11:20] <mup> PR snapd#8688 opened: [RFC] state: log task errors in the journal too <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8688>
[11:20] <pedronis> mborzecki: I'm not sure I want to invest in xerrors atm
[11:21] <pedronis> I pressed close by mistake
[11:21] <pedronis> mvo: you want to land these things in 2.45 I imagine?
[11:22] <mvo> pedronis: yeah, mostly to give us slightly better error reporting. I know it's not ideal but it seems not like a step backwards and we can always improve it
[11:22] <mvo> pedronis: I care less about 8687
[11:23] <mvo> pedronis: the other one 8688 is a bit more interessting I feel because I noticed when we ask for logs for install failure we tend to lack information
[11:23] <mvo> pedronis: anyway, up to you - I totally understand if you prefer something better that is less "ad-hoc"
[11:23] <pedronis> mvo: I have a old PR to address that, doing the right thing is quite a bit of work
[11:24] <pedronis> though, it's probably time to do it, but not 2.45
[11:25]  * mvo nods
[11:25] <mvo> pedronis: for which one do you have a PR? or for the stateengine errors one?
[11:25] <mvo> s/or//
[11:25] <pedronis> for logging task errors
[11:26] <pedronis> it's a PR from 2016 to give you a sense of things
[11:26] <mborzecki> 8688 would be nice, it was super annoying debugging why install failed when running with too small image, there was no other way but to use the debug shell, not sure if even https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/subiquity/pull/771 will be enough
[11:26] <mup> PR CanonicalLtd/subiquity#771: console-conf-wrapper: show snapd log during install <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/subiquity/pull/771>
[11:26] <mvo> pedronis: woah :) ok
[11:27] <mvo> mborzecki: 771 will be enough but I still think it would be nice to have task error in our log but again, I will not fight over this
[11:28] <pedronis> mvo: to be clear, I'm not against the logging, the biggest issue is what to log
[11:28] <pedronis> summaries are long, task numbers are not informative
[11:29] <pedronis> I'm not sure all summaries are complete enough
[11:29] <pedronis> the latter is less of an issue
[11:30] <mvo> pedronis: right - I was thinking about this too and it seemed like the summary is usually ok but yeah, it's not ideal in all cases.
[11:30] <mborzecki> mvo: i see xnox raised the same issue, i think there's a problem when snap watch/change is called to early
[11:30] <mvo> pedronis, mborzecki fwiw, I created an image too small to install and tested all my changes against that to see if my changes improve the error/log output
[11:31] <mvo> mborzecki: yes, I need to look, it did not happen in my testing but I was probably lucky
[11:31] <mvo> mborzecki: for me it was the other way around actually, usually install-system was already done in the error case by the time this code was reached, but again, I think there is no gurantee :/
[11:31] <mvo> mborzecki: I need to think
[11:32] <mvo> pedronis: I think you raise an important point, *if* we log the task error we probably need the id there too for cross reference at least. my pr is not doing this right now
[11:34]  * mvo shuts up for a couple of minutes to give others the chance to talk too :)
[11:35] <pedronis> mvo: we don't display task numbers though usually
[11:35]  * mvo nods
[11:36] <mup> PR snapd#8680 closed: tests: port interfaces-autopilot-introspection to session-tool <Test Robustness> <Created by zyga> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8680>
[11:42] <zyga> brb
[12:05] <mup> PR snapd#8684 closed: tests: add a note about broken test sequence <Skip spread> <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8684>
[12:09] <mborzecki> mvo: in the context of https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1878943 it'd be nice if we made use of the timinigs we have in the install-system handler
[12:09] <mup> Bug #1878943: armhf core20 image unusable on rpi2, rpi3 <uc20> <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878943>
[12:09] <mborzecki> mvo: there's still a question how to show the timings before reboot
[12:14] <pedronis> mvo: I made a proposal
[12:15] <pedronis> in #8688
[12:15] <mup> PR #8688: [RFC] state: log task errors in the journal too <Needs Samuele review> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8688>
[12:24] <pstolowski> pedronis: i'm in the HO
[12:51] <mborzecki> mvo: do you think we could cherry pick https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8580 to 2.45.1?
[12:52] <mup> PR #8580: data/completion: add `snap` command completion for zsh <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8580>
[12:52] <mborzecki> i'll distro patch it in arch and fedora for now
[12:52] <mborzecki> mvo: i can open a PR with relevant patches for 2.45 branch
[12:57] <mup> PR snapd#8691 opened: tests/lib/bin: a TODO to improve the naming and uniformatiy of utilities <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8691>
[12:58] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, let's cherry-pick the zsh
[12:58] <mvo> mborzecki: let me look
[13:11] <mup> PR snapcraft#3130 closed: build providers: don't show an error if there are no auto-refresh changes <bug> <Created by jhenstridge> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3130>
[13:32] <mup> PR snapcraft#2843 closed: snap: only ship .pyc files, strip shared objects <Created by om26er> <Closed by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2843>
[13:40] <mup> PR snapd#8690 closed: devicestate: do not report "ErrNoState" for seeded up <Simple 😃> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8690>
[13:41] <mborzecki> hmm i cannot open files via xdg-desktop-portal anymore in 2.45
[13:41] <mborzecki> maj 18 15:40:27 galeon xdg-desktop-por[466975]: g_desktop_app_info_get_string: assertion 'G_IS_DESKTOP_APP_INFO (info)' failed
[13:41] <mborzecki> maj 18 15:40:27 galeon xdg-desktop-por[466975]: g_app_info_launch_uris: assertion 'G_IS_APP_INFO (appinfo)' failed
[13:41] <ijohnson> oh no
[13:41] <mborzecki> (on arch)
[13:42] <mborzecki> pff, zip/pdf/directories open fine though
[13:42] <mborzecki> graphical files do not
[13:43] <mborzecki> they do open outside of snap tho
[13:52]  * zyga -> lunch
[14:36] <cachio> zyga, we need google-compute-engine  availlable for fedora-32 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/V58T6xCv3v/
[14:37] <zyga> cachio: where is that package coming from?
[14:37] <cachio> Pharaoh_Atem, hey, you are the owner of the google-compute-engine package in fedora right?
[14:37] <zyga> that's a copr repo
[14:37] <zyga> perhaps we don't need it?
[14:38] <cachio> zyga, I think Neal owners it
[14:38] <zyga> cachio: no, he owns the copr we use to get it from
[14:38] <zyga> cachio: perhaps we don't need the copr at all?
[14:38] <zyga> cachio: or perhaps the package in general
[14:38] <cachio> zyga, ah, ok, I'll try
[14:38] <zyga> cachio: does the stock f32 cloud image have this package installed?
[14:39] <cachio> zyga, let me check
[14:43] <cachio> zyga, seems to be installed
[14:43] <zyga> great, then we don't need anything, just use that
[14:43] <zyga> (no need for copr)
[14:46] <cachio>  zyga, yes, now creating the image again
[14:46] <zyga> sounds good
[15:01] <pedronis> mborzecki: in your chain of PRs when did you plan to create systems.go ?
[15:01] <mborzecki> pedronis:  it's in this one: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8689
[15:01] <mup> PR #8689: o/devicestate: raise conflict when requesting system action while seeding <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8689>
[15:02] <pedronis> mborzecki: ok, thx
[15:04] <MattJ> Curious if there is a reason /snap/bin is added in profile.d only, and therefore isn't added to non-interactive sessions?
[15:04] <MattJ> e.g. snap install aws on server, then `ssh user@server aws` fails with 'command not found'
[15:26] <pedronis> mborzecki: I reviewed #8672 and #8686
[15:27] <mup> PR #8672: o/devicestate: change how current system is reported for different modes <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8672>
[15:27] <mup> PR #8686: o/devicestate: cleanup system actions supported by recover mode <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8686>
[15:30] <mup> PR snapd#8692 opened: configcore: add nomanagers buildtag for conditional build <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8692>
[15:31] <pstolowski> pedronis: ^ this seems to be sufficient. i can do ConfGetter change separately, didn't do it in this PR as it would create noise in the diff
[15:31] <pedronis> pstolowski: as I said it matters less
[15:31] <pedronis> pstolowski: I will look at it in a bit
[15:38] <mup> PR snapcraft#3131 opened: plugin handler: debug build commands if developer debug enabled <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3131>
[15:49] <mborzecki> pedronis: thanks!
[15:49] <pedronis> ijohnson: thanks for setting up a meeting
[15:49] <ijohnson> pedronis: sure let me know if there's anything I can do to help or if we should try and pull in somebody from cloud-init
[15:51] <pedronis> ijohnson: don't think so, I'll try to prepare a bit in my morning
[15:51] <ijohnson> ack
[15:52]  * cachio lunch
[16:18] <pedronis> ijohnson: I did a pass on #8683
[16:18] <mup> PR #8683: osutil/disks: support IsDecryptedDevice for mountpoints which are dm devices <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8683>
[16:19] <ijohnson> thank you looking now
[17:02] <zyga> cachio: hey, can you please update the tw image
[17:02] <zyga> cachio: a "zypper dup" is enough to resolve our issue
[17:03] <zyga> cachio: I could bake it into the prepare section but I think this is just better
[17:05] <mup> PR snapd#8685 closed: opensuse: zypper --replacefiles <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8685>
[17:07]  * zyga EODs
[17:07] <ijohnson> pedronis: hmm while looking for documentation on the format of DM_UUID and/or the dm/uuid sysfs value it seems that we may have a slight problem
[17:07] <ijohnson> according to some of the back and forth on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1322110, the DM_UUID is meant to be an implementation detail and ought not to be parsed because it could be broken at any time
[17:09] <ijohnson> now that may be true generally, but I'm wondering if we can rely on it for now because 1) we are in control of the thing creating the volume (snap-bootstrap calling systemd-cryptsetup) , 2) the thing creating the volume is from other software version we kinda control, in that systemd version 245/luks/cryptsetup seems unlikely to bump and change significantly over the lifetime of the core20 snap
[17:10] <ijohnson> 3) the version of systemd in the initramfs should always match what's in the core20 snap I think(?)
[17:10] <cachio> zyga, sure, I am finishing fedora 32
[17:10] <ijohnson> so all the things poking / creating this device mapper volume (which is where the DM_UUID value comes from) should be stable over the lifetime of uc20/core20 I think
[17:11] <ijohnson> if that's not good enough then I will need to seriously think about how we can re-write this code, and moreover why we do not have the additional udev params that we expect in the initrd
[17:11] <cachio> zyga, in 10 minutes will be ready
[17:11] <cachio> and Ill fix tw
[17:15] <mborzecki> zyga: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8685#issuecomment-630315807 what do you mean by unlucky snapshot? does it install the latest aviablel go version (eg. go1.14) or rather the `go` package in version 1.12.sth?
[17:15] <mup> PR #8685: opensuse: zypper --replacefiles <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8685>
[17:40] <cachio> Saviq, hey, are you using fedora 28 and 29 images for testing?
[17:40] <cachio> Saviq, we want to rmemove them
[17:40] <cachio> Saviq, is it ok for you?
[17:40] <Saviq> cachio: remove away https://github.com/MirServer/mir/blob/master/spread.yaml#L5
[17:40] <cachio> sergiusens, same question for you
[17:41] <sergiusens> cachio: we do not.
[17:41] <cachio> Saviq, good, hopefully we will have fedora 32 today
[17:41] <sergiusens> feel free to remove
[17:41] <cachio> sergiusens, thanks
[17:47] <mup> PR snapd#8672 closed: o/devicestate: change how current system is reported for different modes <UC20> <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8672>
[18:14] <pedronis> ijohnson: well we either parse the uuid, or we call cryptsetup status <device-mapper-name> and parse the output
[18:15] <ijohnson> pedronis: which do you think we should do? As I said it seems unlikely that the dm uuid will change for the lifetime of uc20, but then again it could since upsteam devs don't think it's meant to be inspected
[18:16] <pedronis> ijohnson: it's probably easier to use cryptsetup status, otoh the output doesn't seem super machine friendly (differently for other tools it doesn't seem a way to control the output format)
[18:17] <ijohnson> let me boot into the initrd and see how the output looks there
[18:18] <ijohnson> pedronis: let me boot into the initrd to see how it looks there
[18:51] <mup> PR snapcraft#3132 opened: go v1 plugin: warn when using go.mod and go < 1.13 <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3132>
[19:23] <ijohnson> pedronis: after some other new hurdles I learned about (now I have to always also re-build pc gadget to test initramfs changes), I now find that cryptsetup isn't even in the initramfs
[19:24] <ijohnson> afaict we only have systemd-cryptsetup which doesn't understand the "status" argument
[19:24] <pedronis> ijohnson: no, it can only setup things, so much fun
[19:24] <ijohnson> yep!
[19:32] <pedronis> ijohnson: let's pursue the parsing to unblock us, and then reconsider this I suppose
[19:32] <ijohnson> pedronis: ok, I will add a TODO to the code about sorting this out perhaps
[19:49] <mup> PR snapd#8693 opened: tests: adding fedora 32 to spread.yaml <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8693>
[19:49] <cachio> zyga, ~
[19:49] <cachio> tests breacking on fedora 32
[19:50] <cachio> zyga, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vfQqBG2SCG/
[20:10]  * cachio afk
[20:22] <pedronis> ijohnson: are you now unblocked on what to do with #8683 ? also if you think is risky keep reading the dm files directly
[20:22] <mup> PR #8683: osutil/disks: support IsDecryptedDevice for mountpoints which are dm devices <UC20> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8683>
[20:22] <ijohnson> pedronis: yes I'm unblocked I will address your comments
[20:23] <pedronis> ok, thx, going to call it a day
[20:23] <ijohnson> sounds good, talk to you tomorrow


[00:53] <MadMarc>   Hello
[00:54] <MadMarc> Looking for some help setting up Minecraft and Terraria on a Compaq 2510p with Lubuntu 12.10
[03:20] <jjennings> hello lubuntu world!
[03:20] <jjennings> a quick question. how do I disable the mouse pad while typing?
[03:21] <Guest60048> hello
[03:22] <Guest60048> iamhaving some issues with installing from a live usb
[03:23] <wxl> Guest60048: what problem?
[03:24] <Guest60048> i have created a live usb using unetbootin and am able to launch but when i use the installer on the desktop it crashes
[03:24] <wxl> what system is this on?
[03:25] <Guest60048> DEFT
[03:25] <wxl> let me rephrase: what are the specs on your computer?
[03:26] <Guest60048> dellinspiron 500gib hdd 4gb ram
[03:26] <wxl> yikes that should be more than sufficient
[03:26] <wxl> i'd recommend checking the md5 of the usb against the published md5s. i think that's unlikely to be the problem, but it's worth a check
[03:26] <Guest60048> yea ive tried a few things but I think it may be with the installer itself
[03:26] <wxl> which iso is this?
[03:27] <Guest60048> deft.7.2
[03:27] <wxl> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh then why are yo uat lubuntu again? XD
[03:28] <Guest60048> pointed me here thought I'd give it a shot see if common
[03:28] <Guest60048> I've been at it for for a while now
[03:28] <wxl> well let's consider the connections
[03:28] <wxl> we both use lxde
[03:29] <wxl> which has nothing to do with the installer
[03:30] <wxl> i'm not even sure if it pulls most of itself from canonical repos or not
[03:30] <wxl> so i have no idea where to even begin
[03:30] <wxl> so i'd say to take this up with deft.
[03:30] <wxl> and, no, not a common issue.
[03:30] <Guest60048> okay thanks for your input
[03:31] <Guest60048> take care
[07:30] <kvarley> Is edge window tiling included out of the box now?
[11:50] <pmatulis_> what is edge window tiling?
[11:51] <holstein> pmatulis_: i think just tiling in general. like a tiling window manager.. like awesome can do
[12:37] <Grouver> Hello. I tried to install lubuntu on a relative old computer. Though when I try to install it it ofcourse needs a internet connection. But it doesnt seem to connect. If I launch lubuntu directly from the dvd it keeps giving me the message : "Disconnected your now offline" THen it retries. And then again: "Disconnected your now offline"  Though, if i connect the internet cable to another computer internet works fine.  Can anyone help me
[12:38] <holstein> Grouver: i just install.. and i dont install upgrades during the installaion
[12:38] <holstein> !minimal
[12:38] <holstein> ^ if you find that easier.. you can install minimal, and add the lubuntu-desktop meta packages
[12:38] <holstein> sudo apt-get install lubntu-desktop
[12:38] <Grouver> But I already started with the cd to begin with.
[12:39] <Grouver> But then it just cant connect like said.
[12:39] <holstein> Grouver: then, just dont get online
[12:39] <Grouver> ? how do you mean?
[12:40] <holstein> Grouver: i mean, if the installer is failing due to trying to connect to the internet for any reason, dont connect.. and dont ask the installer to do anything that requires being online.. just install.. dont be online, or require the install to be online
[12:40] <holstein> OR, use the minimal.. or alternate iso's to install
[12:41] <Grouver> Yes okay. But what about launching it from the dvd? I tried that to see whats going on. So if I install lubuntu anyways.. i will still have the no-internet problem.
[12:42] <holstein> what dvd?
[12:42] <holstein> Grouver: just install.. and after the installation, get the machine online
[12:42] <Grouver> Well I sure need to install it from somewhere?
[12:43] <holstein> Grouver: install what?
[12:43] <holstein> the internet?
[12:43] <Grouver> holstein, lol no.  I have a dvd with lubuntu on it.
[12:43] <holstein> you dont.. you'll just install the lubuntu distrobution, and then, you will add what you need
[12:43] <Grouver> holstein, but how do i add anything if i dont have internet? Sure okay, I have installed lubuntu now. But still don't have internet.
[12:44] <Grouver> THats the whole problem to begin with. :p
[12:44] <holstein> Grouver: add "things' after the install
[12:44] <holstein> Grouver: you are trying to add wifi support?
[12:45] <holstein> i would plug in wired
[12:45] <holstein> !wifi
[12:45] <Grouver> Not its about a wired connection.
[12:45] <Grouver> Which is not working if I launch it from the dvd.
[12:45] <holstein> Grouver: if you launch what from the DVD?
[12:45] <holstein> Grouver: the dvd is the installer, correct? the live CD?
[12:45] <holstein> Grouver: take that out.. and put it away
[12:46] <Grouver> holstein, yes.
[12:46] <holstein> Grouver: anything that would support your hardware is either already installed, or online.. not on that live CD
[12:46] <holstein> Grouver: boot your normal installed installation.. *not* the live CD
[12:46] <Grouver> alright, cause thats the explanation maybe why internet is not working to begin with?
[12:46] <holstein> Grouver: run "lscpi" and see if you see your network card..
[12:47] <holstein> Grouver: no
[12:47] <Grouver> holstein, did that already from the live cd boot up.
[12:47] <Grouver> lscpi -knn
[12:47] <Grouver> |grep 0200
[12:47] <holstein> Grouver: could be bad hardware. could be off in the bios.. could be not supported... could be a bad lan cable
[12:47] <Grouver> it found one.
[12:47] <holstein> Grouver: do this from your actual install...
[12:47] <Grouver> hmm okay.
[12:48] <holstein> Grouver: lspci.. in a terminal.. and put that output in pastebin
[12:48] <Grouver> Okay will do. I will try that know. THanks.
[13:29] <amigamia> does lubuntu use classic gnome 2?
[14:15] <divx118> amigamia: lxde
[14:16] <amigamia> well then why did the #ubuntu channel say use lubuntu if i wanted the classic look?
[14:18] <divx118> I don't know. I am sure it uses lxde. On another laptop I have fedora with mate. Which is also nice if you want a classic interface.
[14:19] <divx118> http://mate-desktop.org/
[14:20] <melodie> hi
[14:21] <melodie> I gave a fast try of today's Lubuntu raring daily build and it does not work in vbox
[14:22] <melodie> It was long to end on the desktop, longer than Xubuntu was, then I could not start any application, pcmanfm, or any other except desktop prefs and there tried to start apps using the openbox menus which I activated, and same. I tried going to a tty and as the keyboard is qwerty there I wanted to "sudo -s" to be able to switch, but the shell returned a message stating "I/O error" on /usr/bin/sudo
[14:23] <melodie> that's it for today. I'll try again tomorrow if I can
[14:23] <melodie> btw the md5sum is fine, I checked...
[14:35] <melodie> is there a recent lubuntu version (desktop) which I could try and would be likely to work in vbox ?
[14:35] <melodie> ého ! anyone out there ? :d
[14:35] <melodie> :D
[14:59] <posix> i'm wondering how many people are actually testing lubuntu on really old hardware. a friend and i did this weekend and could only run the live version. installer just aborted w/o error. i get the impression lubuntu is used on modern computers predominantly. bugs that occur w old hardware are not really reported and thus not fixed, unfortunately.
[15:02] <steve_deft> Hello!
[15:02] <melodie> hi
[15:02] <steve_deft> Any one can help me with the customization of Live Lubuntu?
[15:03] <melodie> posix how old was that one machine ?
[15:03] <melodie> how much ram, and what gpu especially ?
[15:04] <posix> it was a via chipset from early '00s, athlon-xp, agp geforce4mx, i believe 512mb ram
[15:05] <posix> starting the installer from boot menu created a corrupted gui unfortunately. we later tried with "nomodeset" and "xforcevesa" which reduced the gui but made it work properly
[15:06] <melodie> posix so this might come from the driver "nouveau" which often brings problems to some nvidia cards
[15:06] <melodie> posix would you try a version I have put up, with Openbox and few components, no nouveau driver, and zram used from the live to the install ?
[15:06] <melodie> I mean on that one machine ?
[15:06] <melodie> I can give you the link to the presentation I did of it
[15:07] <melodie> steve_deft ask your question
[15:07] <posix> sure, i'm afraid it'll take a while until we have time to try it though
[15:07] <steve_deft> Ok
[15:08] <melodie> you could try from usb stick too if the machine can be booted from usb : I did that on a T30 which is from 01 ...
[15:08] <steve_deft> The question is really simple...
[15:08] <posix> we were actually suspecting the hard drive to cause the problem. it was an old 100gb 5400rpm drive we took from an old laptop.
[15:08] <melodie> posix here: Bento2 - OBUbuntu Remix presentation - http://beta.linuxvillage.net/index.php/topic,248.0.html
[15:08] <steve_deft> ... if I want change the default username and hostname of the live Lubuntu session.... where I can customize it?
[15:08] <melodie> posix I think with 512 Mb ram it should work perfectly
[15:09] <steve_deft> In the old versions I change the initrd data
[15:09] <k1l> hi. has there been some discussion or decision on changing the support timeframes since ubuntu is changing them from 13.04 on? regarding the lts support time frame
[15:09] <steve_deft> but now dosn't work!
[15:09] <melodie> anyhow I didn't put up an alternate version, and there are still details to fix in that one (decoration mainly, and more testing would be appreciated too)
[15:09] <posix> can you private msg me your email address? we would get back at you then, perhaps
[15:10] <melodie> posix we can talk privately about that
[15:11] <posix> melodie: also, the board was relatively old and would only boot from usb sticks if formatted with FAT, not FAT32. it seemed to have very low transfer rates which made installation take forever before it crashed
[15:17] <steve_deft> no one know how I can customize the default username and hostname on a live cd session?
[15:17] <steve_deft> from the 12.10
[15:19] <melodie> steve_deft
[15:19] <melodie> what steps have you taken ?
[15:21] <steve_deft> In the past I have modified the initrd. The file was /etc/casper.comf
[15:21] <steve_deft> Now dosn't work
[15:21] <steve_deft> melodie
[15:21] <melodie> steve_deft I have seen some files to be changed
[15:22] <melodie> what tools do you use the redo the iso ?
[15:22] <steve_deft> vim :-)
[15:22] <steve_deft> melodie
[15:22] <steve_deft> ah sorry
[15:22] <steve_deft> mkiso
[15:22] <steve_deft> I customize all without remaster systems
[15:25] <steve_deft> melodie
[15:25] <melodie> hummm
[15:29] <phillw> k1l: lubuntu do not have an LTS out. Nearer the release time of 14.04 a decision will be made.
[15:29] <k1l> phillw: ok
[23:11] <Kryst> Hi all
[23:12] <Kryst> I've just install Lubuntu but i have a problem
[23:12] <Kryst> I can't open it, i put my login and password
[23:12] <Kryst> but he stay on bios
[23:12] <holstein> Kryst: were you able to boot the live CD?
[23:12] <holstein> !nomodeset
[23:13] <holstein> though, if its stuck on the bios, that makes me think its a hardware issue
[23:13] <Kryst> hmm okay thanks, but i can see that "myloginname@lubuntu$:
[23:13] <Kryst> or something like this
[23:14] <Kryst> not sure
[23:14] <holstein> Kryst: that is not the bios
[23:14] <Kryst> ?
[23:14] <holstein> Kryst: if you are on the bios, it will be the bios.. username@hostname is *not* the bios
[23:15] <melodie> Kryst this is a terminal
[23:15] <melodie> Kryst which version of Lubuntu is this ?
[23:15] <Kryst> 12.10
[23:15] <melodie> Kryst try to type this:
[23:15] <melodie> sudo service lightdm restart
[23:16] <melodie> and tell us what it does
[23:16] <Kryst> okay i will be back thx
[23:24] <Kryst> re
[23:25] <Kryst> okay i try   !nomodeset but nothing apear and i test sudo service lightdm restart
[23:25] <Kryst> and i have a list with all "ok"
[23:25] <Kryst> and nothing avec "stopping save kernel messages (ok) "
[23:26] <Kryst> after *
[23:26] <holstein> Kryst: did you get to a live desktop from the live CD?
[23:27] <Kryst> sorry 'i'm not sure to understand, but i use dameon tools with iso files for the install
[23:27] <holstein> Kryst: i get the live CD, and try and boot to the live desktop, so i know if the graphics hardware is supported well
[23:27] <melodie> Kryst you confuse two things
[23:28] <melodie> holstein have u seen what Kryst tried to do ?
[23:28] <melodie> he understands not what we try to make him do so not too fast!
[23:28] <Kryst> ^^
[23:28] <Kryst> sorry i'm not english and i don't always understand all
[23:28] <melodie> Kryst holstein has send "!nomodeset" as a command to the bot of the present channel, to send you read a doc
[23:29] <melodie> not for you to repeat in the live cd
[23:29] <Kryst> aah ok ahah
[23:29] <Kryst> thx !
[23:29] <melodie> I have given you the said command to put aftyer username@machine$
[23:29] <Kryst> !nomodeset
[23:29] <melodie> after
[23:29] <holstein> Kryst: the purpose of nomodeset is to provide support for unsupported graphics hardware
[23:29] <melodie> the next time you will get there
[23:29] <melodie> Kryst do you have a nvidia card on that machine ?
[23:30] <Kryst> i have no graphic card
[23:30] <melodie> I suspect if you have a nvidia graphic card
[23:31] <melodie> yes your machine does have one
[23:31] <melodie> :)
[23:31] <melodie> lol
[23:31] <melodie> first time someone tells me that :D
[23:31] <melodie> in...
[23:31] <Kryst> i have an asus eee pc lol
[23:31] <holstein> Kryst: are you in the terminal now? the "username@hostname" screen?
[23:31] <melodie> 9 years time
[23:31] <Kryst> i have to restart the computer for this
[23:31] <melodie> Kryst ok so i'll look at the web what graphics are used in there
[23:31] <holstein> Kryst: i have a lot of those
[23:32] <melodie> all machines have a graphic card, even included in the cpu for some of them
[23:32] <Kryst> yes sure melodie
[23:32] <Kryst> intel share card
[23:33] <Kryst> included in the cpu
[23:33] <melodie> ok!
[23:33] <Kryst> asus eee pc 1025C
[23:33] <Kryst> sorry holstein what do you said ?
[23:33] <holstein> Kryst: the eeepc's.. i have 4
[23:33] <Kryst> i dont understand what is mean " i have a lot of those é
[23:33] <Kryst> "
[23:34] <smoke_> smoke
[23:34] <holstein> Kryst: 4.. four of those machines... eeepc's
[23:34] <Kryst> ah ok !
[23:36] <Kryst> sorry i have to go but brb fast, trying something
[23:36] <melodie> Kryst you said you have installed : how was it while in the Live ? was it working normally ?
[23:36] <melodie> ?
[23:36] <melodie> uh


[21:48] <HickorySmokedBac> How long is Xubuntu LTS supported ? 5 years too ?
[21:52] <genii> 3 years
[21:54] <genii> Ubuntu itself is 5 years on LTS, but each distribution's team can choose a different support length if they want


[23:23] <bjsnider> micahg, any bugs about chrome 29 and icedtea?
[23:26] <bjsnider> works with oracle's plugin anyway


[02:27] <psusi> so.... with the debian import freeze going into effect today is there any chance of getting lvm2 updated this cycle?
[02:30] <lifeless> yes
[02:30] <lifeless> just requires manual requests
[02:30] <lifeless> not automatic
[02:30] <RAOF> It's still open season on merges and sync requests.
[02:30] <lifeless> its not the end of syncs, its the end of the firehose
[02:32] <ebroder> lvm2 was never going to get automatically synced anyway, because Ubuntu modifies heavily from Debian
[02:34] <psusi> ok... anyone planning on doing that anytime soon? :)
[02:34] <psusi> yea, I looked at the bzr repo for it and the last merge is a nightmare
[02:34] <psusi> but the new upstream has support for merging a snapshot back into the origin so you could make a snapshot, test an upgrade, then if it goes tits up, revert to the snapshot
[02:36] <lifeless> psusi: that would be nice; care to do the merge ? ;)
[02:37] <ebroder> psusi: The difficulty isn't really in dealing with LVM metadata restoration. The problem is that the way that Ubuntu packaged things is substantially different (because the startup processes for Debian and Ubuntu are fundamentally different)
[02:38] <psusi> I tried already... none of the ubuntu specific patches have proper documentation within the quilt patch file, and when I tried to track down their history in bzr, I got stuck on the nightmare merge and could not penetrate that history
[02:38] <ebroder> psusi: Exactly. That's why nobody's done the merge :)
[02:38] <psusi> ebroder, how so?
[02:39] <psusi> I ended up just disabling all of the ubuntu specific patches iirc... except for one or two that seemed to still apply to the new upstream without any fudging
[02:40] <psusi> what are the critical points of divergence ubuntu needs to maintain?
[02:41]  * psusi pets make -j 2... if it takes this long to compile the kernel with it... boy...
[06:20] <siretart> Sarvatt: just rebuild it so it picks up libavutil50
[06:37] <pssw0rt> maybe in this room
[06:37] <pssw0rt> one day, ubuntu would be xfce4??? i don see future with gnome 3
[06:38] <pssw0rt> and the use of another lang called Vala
[06:38] <pssw0rt> and mono and C#
[06:49] <Chipzz> pssw0rt: no, not in this room ;P
[06:55] <pssw0rt> xD
[06:56] <pssw0rt> developers  without opinion xD
[06:56] <pssw0rt> bb
[07:23] <dholbach> good morning
[07:54] <dholbach> can an archive admin please take care of the sync bugs? particularly 598274?
[08:14] <dholbach> pitti: do you know what GSI means on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingChanges?
[08:20] <dholbach> ccheney: is GSI still a change that should be listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingChanges?
[08:23] <Laney> that page seems somewhat out of date
[08:23] <Laney> but I guess that's what you're cleaning up right now :P
[08:24] <dholbach> Laney: no, everybody's invited to update it
[08:24] <dholbach> Laney: don't rely on me - it was just a question that just came up :)
[08:25] <Laney> alright
[08:25] <dholbach> :)
[08:25] <Laney> I'll nuke the outdated ones (breaks, dh_iconcache)
[08:25] <dholbach> thanks
[08:31] <pitti> Good morning
[08:32] <pitti> dholbach: GSI is the name of the OO.o translation format; don't ask me what it's spelt out
[08:32] <nigelb> pitti: the question rather is if its still significant
[08:33] <pitti> well, it has never really been
[08:33] <pitti> oo.o has had its own langpacks forever
[08:34] <pitti> we have our own source package oo.o-l10n
[08:34] <pitti> but that's about it, the binary structure is as in Debian
[09:57] <pitti> apw: good morning
[09:58] <pitti> apw: debian bug 509089 is such a gold nugget, thanks for digging this out!
[09:58] <BlackZ> pitti: hmm, I can't find that file in cdbs
[09:58] <pitti> for my ethernet connection, it drops DHCP time from 2.5 s to 0.15
[09:58] <BlackZ> I downloaded the currently version in maverick
[09:59] <pitti> BlackZ: ah, perhaps the Kubuntu team dropped it and it was just a copy&paste error in the merge changelog
[09:59] <pitti> seems so, yes
[09:59] <BlackZ> pitti: so could it be dropped?
[09:59] <pitti> from the merge changelog, right
[10:00] <BlackZ> BTW it fails locally too, pitti
[10:00] <BlackZ> I have no idea
[10:02] <Riddell> BlackZ: what's this?
[10:03] <BlackZ> Riddell: the dropped file? or the FTBFS?
[10:03] <Riddell> whatever the bit the kubuntu team should care about is :)
[10:05] <BlackZ> Riddell: - Add 1/class/kde4.mk.in: Generic KDE4 build rules. Install it in Makefile.am;
[10:05] <BlackZ> I can't find it in the package
[10:06] <Riddell> yes it's gone
[10:06] <Riddell> use /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/makefiles/1/cdbs/kde.mk from pkg-kde-tools
[10:06] <BlackZ> OK, dropping it then
[10:08] <pitti> BlackZ: as I said, run one of the tests locally and see what it's failing on
[10:10] <BlackZ> pitti: .: 21: testsuite_functions: not found
[10:11] <pitti> you have to cd tests
[10:11] <BlackZ> I'm in it
[10:11] <pitti> cd test; ./langpack-1.sh -> works fine for me
[10:12] <pitti> do you actually have the testsuite_functions file?
[10:12] <BlackZ> hm, yes
[10:12] <BlackZ> and the package from debian works fine
[10:12] <BlackZ> maybe I've broken something but I don't think so
[10:12] <pitti> well, it fails all tests, so _something_ was broken
[10:15] <BlackZ> pitti: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/454884/
[10:16] <pitti> BlackZ: so whatever "debhelper.mk.in:239: *** Riferimento incompleto a variabile.  Arresto.
[10:17] <pitti> " means, that's likely the error
[10:17] <pitti> "variable does not exist" or so?
[10:17] <BlackZ> "reference to variable incomplete"
[10:18] <BlackZ> OK, looking there
[10:21] <ogra> pitti, ... could you set the trend line again for http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html (57 items) and http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-maverick-alpha-3.html (16 items) ?
[10:21] <ogra> pitti, sorry, we got a new spec yesterday
[10:21] <pitti> ogra: alpha-3 will auto-reset once alpha2 is done
[10:21] <pitti> so I won't touch that
[10:21] <ogra> ah. great then only the overall view
[10:22] <pitti> the idea is that you plan a milestone before it begins and the chart grows up
[10:22] <pitti> and you see how much stuff you have
[10:22] <ogra> yeah
[10:22] <pitti> and once the milestone begins, the chart begins "clean" again
[10:22] <pitti> ogra: note that the entire idea is to _not_ change the trend line when you add a spec
[10:23] <pitti> the point is that you see what/when the additional workload was added and thus what is to blame for dropping other work instead :)
[10:23] <pitti> but I can change it if you really want
[10:23] <DktrKranz> mvo: gdebi uploaded in Debian (with some little trivial changes), and sync request filed. you can mark branch as merged :)
[10:23] <ogra> pitti, yes, but i was asked to since the initial value is all wrong for the total at least
[10:23] <mvo> DktrKranz: sweet, thanks!
[10:23] <pitti> ogra: sure, was just a suggestion; committed
[10:24] <ogra> pitti, thanks, i have another issue :)
[10:25] <ogra> pitti, we need jockey to show an eula for a driver, is something for that implemented or do i need to do it on a dpkg/debconf level
[10:26] <pitti> ogra: it's an open wishlist thing, bug 271288
[10:26] <ogra> ok
[10:26] <pitti> ogra: jockey doesn't show debconf, sorry
[10:26] <ogra> no, buut dpkg does if gtk-perl is installed, no ?
[10:27] <ogra> i.e. if i put it in the package and make sure gtk-perl is there it should use the gtk frontend
[10:28] <pitti> jockey doesn't use synaptic
[10:28] <pitti> it uses python-apt in the dbus backend
[10:28] <pitti> it doesn't have anything to display stuff to, and isn't meant to have
[10:28] <ogra> hmm, and that omits debconf questions ?
[10:28] <pitti> if a package requires debconf, you can't use jockey, sorry
[10:29]  * ogra thought that would work parallel to jockey just using the debconf gtk frontend
[10:30] <mvo> pitti: have you considered switching to aptdaemon as the backend? then you get debconf support
[10:31] <pitti> mvo: it's an option indeed, but I haven't found much time to hack on jockey since aptdaemon exists
[10:31] <pitti> but it's also kind of a design decision
[10:31] <pitti> drivers shouldn't need debconf or anything scary to work
[10:32] <ogra> sadly some driver manufacturers disagree :)
[10:32] <pitti> I do acknowledge the need for displaying an EULA at some point, but that should be in jockey's UI, not debconf
[10:44] <pitti> apw: I uploaded dhcp3 with those patches to maverick now
[10:45] <pitti> well, slightly adapted (without conffile changes)
[11:14] <cjwatson> kirkland: merged your uec-live seed; as far as I'm concerned you can hack on it directly in the main seed branch at this point
[11:26] <geser> doko: would it be possible to get our python-defaults package merged/synced with Debian ones? The first packages are already in DEPWAIT on python >= 2.6.5-2~
[11:27] <cjwatson> mvo: is the rest of foundations-maverick-buy-something likely to land for alpha-2?
[11:29] <cjwatson> doko: arm-m-tool-chain-selection has a work item for alpha-2 on it; is that still feasible?
[11:29] <cjwatson> cking: you have "Investigate situation with Intel graphics drivers on EFI" as a work item for alpha-2, which is showing up on the foundations list; have you had a chance to look into that at all?
[11:36] <cking> cjwatson, not yet, been a bit swamped. Will find some cycles today to start thus
[11:37] <cking> cjwatson, want to you need to know?
[11:38] <cjwatson> cking: at the moment, I'm just checking in so that I have information for the release meeting
[11:38] <doko> geser: ScottK is working on this, waiting for the ia64 build
[11:39] <geser> ok
[11:45] <doko> cjwatson: yes, I think the test rebuild is still doable, the decision probably later
[12:05] <mvo> cjwatson: the buy-something work-items are not 100% reflecting reality anymore, there were some changes in the server side. I will update them today with noodles (who works on the server side of things)
[12:07] <cjwatson> thanks
[13:03] <hrw> someone remember where I can find uds-m presentation about udev/hal?
[13:06] <hrw> keybuk's one
[13:20] <cjwatson> dholbach: processing syncs now
[13:20]  * dholbach hugs cjwatson
[13:25] <nigelb> hrw: ubuntu miro community should have them
[13:26] <hrw> nigelb: I already have video version
[13:26] <hrw> bbl - called for lunch
[13:38] <ogra> cjwatson, for enabling preinstalled images i'm wondering if i should either mangle bin/cron.ports_daily-live to export CDIMAGE_PREINSTALLED instead of CDIMAGE_LIVE or should i rather create a new command i.e. bin/cron.ports_daily-prenistalled and leave ron.ports_daily-live alone ?
[13:38] <ogra> (without the typo indeed :P )
[13:39] <dholbach> could somebody imagine giving a session at Ubuntu Developer Week about the release schedule, freezes and stuff we do? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep still has a few open slots
[13:39] <cjwatson> ogra: I don't mind either way really; what's clearest in the code?
[13:40] <ogra> cjwatson, well, i think cron.ports_daily-preinstalled would be less intrusive
[13:40] <cjwatson> that's fine by me, then
[13:40] <ogra> effectively its only that one variable that needs to change
[13:47] <ccheney> dholbach, yea support is still there its not working correctly atm
[13:47] <dholbach> ccheney: does the page need an update?
[13:48] <ccheney> dholbach, i think its accurate enough about the gsi item
[13:49] <dholbach> ok
[14:10] <kirkland> cjwatson: ah, great, thanks
[14:10] <kirkland> cjwatson: and as for building a server image directly for the hardware, I have gotten vmbuilder working for that purpose now :-)
[14:13] <kirkland> cjwatson: when will it build on cdimage?  anything else I need to do on that front at this point, to get an ISO together that we can start working from?
[14:14] <cjwatson> kirkland: do I have to have more things on cdimage?  it's really tight on space
[14:14] <cjwatson> if it's at all possible to do it externally, that would be preferable
[14:17] <kirkland> cjwatson: okay -- can you point me to some docs as to building an ISO from the seed itself now?
[14:17] <cjwatson> kirkland: that said, how big does it end up being?
[14:18] <kirkland> cjwatson: ~800MB roughly
[14:18] <cjwatson> hm, not small then
[14:18] <kirkland> cjwatson: yeah, well, i need to work on shrinking it down some
[14:18] <kirkland> cjwatson: there's more stuff that can go
[14:18] <cjwatson> /dev/mapper/cdimage-srv
[14:18] <cjwatson><PHONE_NUMBER><PHONE_NUMBER> 132340384  93% /srv
[14:18] <cjwatson> we might be able to cope with another
[14:18] <cjwatson> does it need to be i386 and amd64?
[14:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: and that estimate was from my modified desktop livecd -- i've not yet built an ISO based directly on this seed
[14:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: no, only amd64 IMHO
[14:19] <cjwatson> ok, that helps
[14:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: and 800MB is an over estimate
[14:19] <cjwatson> leave me with the action to get it done, then
[14:19] <cjwatson> alpha-3 work item or whatever?
[14:19] <kirkland> cjwatson: sure
[14:46] <cjwatson> does anyone know where the code that updates changelogs.ubuntu.com comes from?
[14:47] <dholbach> cjwatson: mvo might
[14:48] <cjwatson> hm, lp:extract-changelogs maybe
[14:49] <mvo> cjwatson: that is a mix of code living on changelogs.ubuntu.com plus fixup code that adds symlinks where binver != srcver. is there a problem with it?
[14:49] <seif_> any1 know where anmar ius
[14:50] <cjwatson> mvo: when processing syncs I noticed that some packages didn't seem to have changelogs, e.g. http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/m/mc/mc_4.7.0-1ubuntu2/
[14:50] <cjwatson> mvo: and I was wondering if this was something to do with them being 3.0 (quilt), since all the examples I noticed were
[14:51] <cjwatson> mvo: but then current man-db has a changelog and that's 3.0 (quilt), so maybe dpkg-source was just out of date?
[14:51] <mvo> cjwatson: that is likely, it does use a simple dpkg-source -x iirc but we requested a backport
[14:51] <cjwatson> that would make sense then, thanks
[14:51] <cjwatson> just wanted to check that it wasn't a current problem
[14:51] <mvo> cjwatson: it maybe that its stuff extracted between the time when v3 arrived and when we got the backport installed
[14:51] <cjwatson> yeah, could well be
[15:05] <LucidFox> Yay, finally, for most applications, the global menu seems to Just Work(tm)!
[15:05] <LucidFox> no reordering or vanishing issues so far
[15:09] <LucidFox> Okay, Qt applications are still reordered
[15:10] <LucidFox> but GTK ones are fine
[15:11] <jcastro> LucidFox: can you check gnome-terminal and tell me if you see a partial menu?
[15:13] <LucidFox> jcastro> Okay, the Help menu is different in the global menu applet, and the Terminal menu has some different items entirely
[15:14] <jcastro> yeah, that seems to have regressed, people are looking into it
[15:14] <LucidFox> the Help menu has only Contents and About
[15:14] <jcastro> yeah in some cases it's still showing partial menus
[15:15] <jcastro> that's lp #594228
[15:15] <LucidFox> But there are separators, correct order in everything apart from VLC, and it no longer loses the menu when the application is restarted
[15:15] <LucidFox> It's almost usable now :)
[15:15] <jcastro> LucidFox: feedback on any of those open bugs on the menu would be appreciated
[15:15] <LucidFox> Out of curiosity, why did you implement this from scratch instead of using the gnome2-globalmenu code?
[15:16] <jcastro> the DX guys talked to the gnome2-globalmenu guys before they started
[15:17] <jcastro> i don't know the details other that they decided that ted/bratches way was the way forward
[15:19] <LucidFox> ted/bratches?
[15:19] <LucidFox> Oh, and the panel periodically crashes now -_-
[15:19] <jcastro> ted and bratsche I mean (cody)
[15:20] <jcastro> LucidFox: join us in #ayatana if you want to help us with the menu!
[15:34] <MacSlow> bryce_, ping
[15:36] <LucidFox> Okay, the status of xchat-gnome upstream is concerning
[15:37] <LucidFox> They're apparently a hairline away from release, yet nobody's answering bug reports or mail, the IRC channel is almost empty, and my post to the mailing list has been held in moderation for days.
[15:43] <dholbach> sorry for spamming, but we have one slot for UDW left: would anybody like to talk about distributed development 16th July at 17 UTC?
[17:09] <unknown> where can i find out how the jockey-gtk package is built?
[17:11] <ScottK> unknown: apt-get source jockey
[17:14] <unknown> ScottK: what if i'm not running ubuntu? (i have a ubuntu vm, but just curious)
[17:15] <ScottK> Getting the source package and looking is still the best way.  Do that in the vm is the easiest.
[17:16] <ScottK> It's also available at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey
[17:18] <unknown> ahh, all i found was this: http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/lucid/jockey
[17:18] <ebroder> unknown: Yeah, Launchpad is a little less discoverable than packages.u.c, but it has about a gajillion times as much information
[17:26] <cking> cjwatson, "Investigate situation with Intel graphics drivers on EFI" - I'm on the ball, waiting for some more input from Intel on this
[17:27] <cjwatson> cool, ta
[17:29] <cking> apologies for the delay, hope to get some info back next week
[17:57] <arand> How are the dailies of the alternate CD faring atm, there seems to have been none the last three days, and we're a bunch that's quite eager to try out btrfs...
[17:57] <cjwatson> arand: I fixed a problem earlier today that affected them
[17:58] <arand> cjwatson: Cool, so hopefully one for tomorrow then?
[17:58] <cjwatson> maybe, I wouldn't like to promise
[17:59]  * cjwatson scores up d-i
[18:00] <cjwatson> gah, one hour to start even at 20000
[18:00] <cjwatson> toolchain ate our builders
[18:02] <ScottK> cjwatson: Looking at the other packages, I think it's safe to say doko ate our builders.
[18:02] <cjwatson> openjdk is sort of toolchain :)
[18:03] <ScottK> python2.6 has been at 999999 for 7 hours on ia64 and didn't get a chance yet ...
[19:43] <[reed]> any Makefile experts around, Firefox could use your assistance -- http://christian.legnitto.com/blog/2010/06/25/are-you-a-makefile-guru-would-you-like-to-make-firefox-more-secure/
[20:36] <hunger> In maverick I get "root filesystem check failed" on the console... mounting fails, btrfsck says all is well, the lucid kernel boots fine. Any ideas what I can try to debug this?
[21:07] <rohan> wasn't ubuntu 8.04 onwards supposed to receive latest versions of firefox from upstream (3.6.4) last week?
[21:07] <rohan> was the plan dropped?
[21:09] <rohan_> wasn't ubuntu 8.04 onwards supposed to receive latest versions of firefox from upstream (3.6.4) last week?
[21:09] <rohan_> was the plan dropped?
[21:09] <rohan_> i'm talking about https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model
[21:13] <arand> rohan: They were testing it in the security PPA, not sure if they rolled it out yet..
[21:14] <rohan> arand: they haven't..
[21:20] <ScottK> rohan: Yes. No. Yes. No.
[21:24] <jdstrand> rohan: it is being worked on
[21:24] <jdstrand> rohan: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Firefox3.6.4Upgrade/SecurityPublication
[21:25] <jdstrand> rohan: hardy and lucid should go out early next week. jaunty and karmic sometime after
[21:42] <rohan> ScottK, jdstrand : thank you
[21:44] <rohan> hmm is this going to cause one more point release of 8.04?
[21:44] <cjwatson> as far as anyone's told me, no more point releases of 8.04 are planned
[21:44] <ebroder> cjwatson: Are they not going to be done every 6 months anymore?
[21:45] <rohan> cjwatson: then what is the point of updating the "release notes" for 8.04?
[21:46] <cjwatson> ebroder: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule - "Point releases will cease once Ubuntu 10.04 is released."
[21:47] <rohan> ubuntu 8.04 support for desktop has expired right?
[21:47] <ebroder> cjwatson: Ah, ok. I hadn't really been paying attention; my apologies
[21:47] <cjwatson> we don't have the resources to do point releases for multiple LTS series at once
[21:47] <cjwatson> rohan: no idea - but of course saying there are no more point releases is not the same as saying there are no more updates
[21:47] <cjwatson> rohan: no, 8.04 is supported on desktop until April 2011
[21:48] <cjwatson> we're just not planning more CD image refreshes, that's all
[21:48] <rohan> i understand, but the page which jdstrand linked to mentions updating the release notes for 8.04, which doesn't make sense
[21:48] <rohan> and i thought LTS support was 2 years for desktop and 5 years for server..?
[21:48] <cjwatson> 3 years for desktop
[21:48] <jdstrand> rohan: you misunderstand
[21:49] <jdstrand> rohan: those release notes are special notes that need to be added to the USN
[21:50] <jdstrand> I could have perhaps been clearer, but the idea is that there are additional notes for the 3.6.4 release in hardy, et al
[21:52] <rohan> jdstrand: oh, i am sorry.
[21:52] <rohan> thanks for clarifying, cjwatson
[22:39] <achiang> anyone know what happened to gdk-pixbuf in lucid?
[22:40] <gord> achiang, nothing? its still there
[22:41] <achiang> gord: hm, i'm actually looking for the package that would supply the gdk.typelib file in /usr/share/girepository-1.0
[22:42] <gord> achiang, ah, i have no idea about that
[22:42] <achiang> and apt-cache search pixbuf doesn't reveal anything interesting
[22:42] <achiang> nor does apt-cache search gdk
[22:42] <gord> achiang, there is a gir-repository package (or something like that) that installs a lot of the glib/gnome typelibs
[22:43] <achiang> gord: yeah, i've got that installed and it doesn't provide anything related to gdk
[22:44] <geser> Gdk-2.0.typelib is in gir1.0-gtk-2.0
[22:45] <achiang> geser: ah, there it is! ta!


[09:36] <bcurtiswx_test> ù,à,é
[09:37] <bcurtiswx> ù,à,é
[10:00] <bcurtiswx> maco, I made sure to steal a few sticker sets for ya
[14:01] <maco> bcurtiswx: heh thanks
[14:02] <maco> bcurtiswx: hey wait, are there new kubuntu-logo stickers? riddell's the person most likely to have them if theyre not with the pile of ubuntu stickers
[15:26] <bcurtiswx> maco, i have not seen them floating around


[13:15] <jrwren> this is wow. https://blog.cr.yp.to/20231003-countcorrectly.html
[13:15] <jrwren> whoo hoo! I am someone. thanks FCC