[01:34] <penguin42> moreati: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/08/yahoo_webmail_hijack_flare_on/
[06:06] <redtape-renegade> penguin42: Yep, I was affected by the yahoo password thingy.
[06:06] <redtape-renegade> Morning all .
[08:19] <popey> Morning
[09:34] <kvarley> What FS type should I use for my external HDD? I need to use it on OS X and Linux
[09:34] <kvarley> I've seen online that UDF might be the way to go
[10:19] <directhex> kvarley, fat32, unless you need files >4GB
[10:22] <popey> +1
[10:24] <directhex> wifey wanted a windows reinstall this weekend, but has done no prep
[10:24] <directhex> e.g. list of apps to reinstall
[10:26] <popey> people prep their windows reinstalls?
[10:26] <popey> i thought they just reinstalled and crossed their fingers
[10:30] <directhex> a managed reinstall demands a managed approach
[10:30] <directhex> e.g. find install media
[10:40] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:43] <dwatkins> allo allo
[10:45] <brobostigon> morning dwatkins
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> Is Flickr/Yahoo slow for anyone else?
[10:50] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Not really on uk site .. but a lot of passwords were hacked recently.. althou the two are not that related.
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: nah it just takes ages to upload/download my photos
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> even though I have 100/100 fibre on this end ;)
[10:51] <redtape-renegade> oh ok .. not tried.
[10:52] <redtape-renegade> .. they're doing it again !  It's still as cold as 9pm last night . when my face almost froze off !
[11:08] <redtape-renegade> My question is : Is there any point to Sunday's ??
[11:08]  * MartijnVdS was out at the coast.. that almost froze my face off :)
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> but I survived!
[11:09] <redtape-renegade> mm.. I think we should have a coffee nex time I'm over in Leiden .. on me.
[11:10] <redtape-renegade> .. that ferry from Hull is like getting onboard a soviet vessel though :)
[11:14] <redtape-renegade> ..oh well shall we share music MartijnVdS until people wake up ?
[11:19] <redtape-renegade> http://open.spotify.com/track/5gJjQyEN8PjubKf0fR6hxv Hello Sunday .. may the Sunday driver keep outta sight.
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157632958666235/with/8543696251/
[11:19] <redtape-renegade> opening...
[11:22] <redtape-renegade> mmm
[11:22] <redtape-renegade> Duingebied
[11:22] <redtape-renegade>  is snowy .. reminds me of froze bite with wet mittens .. not good for children..
[11:23] <redtape-renegade> don't know why the linage thing happened there ?
[11:24] <redtape-renegade> ** frost-bite ..
[11:25] <redtape-renegade> MMmm . redtape-renegade does a tour of http://www.frostbitemedia.org/
[11:28] <directhex> i was interviewed by those guys
 redtape-renegade: MartijnVdS, Not really on uk site .. but a lot of passwords were hacked recently.. althou the two are not that related.
[12:06] <neuro> redtape-renegade: what hack are you referring to?
[12:06] <neuro> and since Yahoooooo! and flickr share authentication methods, yes, they are that related
[12:06] <penguin42> neuro: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/08/yahoo_webmail_hijack_flare_on/ ?
[12:07] <neuro> oh good grief ... :(
[12:07] <neuro> glad i don't use yahoo mail then
[12:08]  * penguin42 posted that url about 10 hours ago to someone (who asked last week) - sorry forget their nick now
[12:08] <neuro> np
[12:08] <neuro> i was asleep most of yesterday so missed that
[12:08] <neuro> did a 13 hour simcity sesh on friday night and paid the price for it :)
[12:08] <penguin42> hehe
[12:09] <neuro> once you can actually get logged into it, it's a wonderful game
[12:10] <neuro> now i'm just hoping that my PC purchase grants me a free copy of the mac version, a la Steam purchases
[12:10] <neuro> although, knowing EA ... probably not
[12:11] <neuro> first time though that I've purchased a game, and could have in theory not actually bothered taking the DVD out of the box
[12:12] <neuro> it comes with an Origin activation key, so you could just whack that into Origin and download the game
[12:12]  * neuro is a bit of a PC games noob (in theory), so this is all odd to my console-gaming self :)
[12:13] <neuro> how are people finding Steam on linux, enjoying it?
[12:13] <mano> hi
[12:15] <neuro> hellooooo
[12:16] <mano> may you help me plz i face a problem
[12:16] <directhex> i don't know anything about origin on mac
[12:16] <mano> i use ubuntu studio not mac
[12:16] <neuro> directhex: well it's not so much origin itself, whether or not they automatically grant you mac licences for pc games you've bought
[12:17] <neuro> they being EA
[12:17] <neuro> will wait and see
[12:17] <neuro> apparently simcity will be DL only on mac, so the £33 i paid in tesco would likely not be the cost I'd pay direct to EA :P
[12:17] <neuro> anyway
[12:17] <neuro> mano: directhex was answering something i'd said before you joined
[12:18] <neuro> what's your question? :)
[12:18] <mano> so !
[12:18] <directhex> neuro, i don't see any precedent, as EA don't have mac versions on steam for their mac games (e.g. the sims 3)
[12:18] <neuro> directhex: they do on origin
[12:18] <neuro> but there's no way i'm buying sims 3 to find out ;)
[12:19] <directhex> Like Valve’s Steam Play initiative, select EA titles purchased from Origin will work on both PC and Mac
[12:19] <directhex> no definition of "select" there
[12:19] <neuro> ya
[12:19] <shauno> not sure you have to buy anything to find out.  just install origin on your mac, login to your account, and see what shows up
[12:19] <neuro> shauno: simcity for mac only has an indeterminate "spring 2013" release date, it's not out yet
[12:20] <shauno> ah, I see
[12:20] <neuro> seems mano didn't want to ask their question :P
[12:21] <neuro> interesting ... simcity shows up in my account along with bf3 and bf1942, but they all say "Game only available on Windows"
[12:21] <neuro> will wait and see if that changes ;)
[12:21] <mh0> neuro: Correction: He didn't want to wait for someone to finish first, such is impatience
[12:22] <neuro> i did say "what's your question"
[12:23] <neuro> righty ho, i'm off to forage for some lunch ... I think I may have a quiche in the fridge \o/
[13:09] <redtape-renegade> oh Happy Mother's Day BTW..
[13:20] <Laney> thanks son
[13:55] <bigcalm> Next year I'm going to send a 'happy birthday' card
[13:55] <bigcalm> Better yet, 'happy birthday dad'
[14:02] <jacobw> When did pdf.js land in Firefox? I've just started to notice it
[14:03] <penguin42> a few months I think, it's been annoying me for that long
[17:54] <ikonia> any of the Ubuntu UK guys audophiles
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> ikonia: "normal" people who know audio, or weirdos that want gold-infused cables with contacts that were kissed by virgins for that extra sound quality?
[18:04] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: more in the normal world
[18:04] <ikonia> as I think the extreme stuff would be over my head by a mile, or two
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> you won't hear the extreme stuff.. it's all "I hear it because I paid a lot of money" psychological effect
[18:05] <ikonia> quite the opposite
[18:06] <ikonia> I've just been reading about a really small little valve amp and wanted to get a more educated view on it than my mortal understanding
[18:49] <jacobw> ikonia: What have you read about so far?
[19:07] <ikonia> jacobw: just positive reviews of a little amp called a miniwatt
[19:58] <redtape-renegade> ikonia, I don't know about the source as I just get whatever comes out of the 5.1-card headphone jack.. but as I move around the house a lot that leaves only two or three possible headphones that I can use ..
[19:59] <ikonia> redtape-renegade: sorry, wasn't talking about using this with a PC
[19:59] <ikonia> redtape-renegade: just thought about it as a nice little amp for a turn table
[20:00] <redtape-renegade> this is because they are regarded as closed loop (closedf source I'm afraid) .. by Sennheiser. The reason no of the others work is that it is possible to pick up the audio on some of the modern baby monitors, so the options are few.
[20:01] <redtape-renegade> ikonia, I dont think I've ever played a record TBHonest.. i have spotify which is 320kbps  .. who needs anything else ?
[20:02] <ikonia> redtape-renegade: just have some old records, that I bought a turn table to re-play
[20:02] <ikonia> hence a small good value amp, this seemed interesting
[20:02] <redtape-renegade> If you want to join that community there are a couple of people you can share music choices with on this channel .. otherwise how does thatr help us ?
[20:03] <ikonia> sorry what  ? how does it help you
[20:03] <ikonia> join what community ?
[20:04] <redtape-renegade> you have to understand that this is a sharing community..
[20:04] <redtape-renegade> Spotify..
[20:04] <ikonia> what are you talking about
[20:04] <redtape-renegade> GIYF.
[20:04] <ikonia> what ?
[20:04] <ikonia> I just asked for a more experienced view on this small value value amp
[20:04] <ikonia> why are you talking about community/sharing/spotify
[20:05] <redtape-renegade> what community do you belong to , then ?
[20:05] <ikonia> what are you talking about community ?
[20:05] <ikonia> I've not asked for any community
[20:06] <ikonia> I just asked if anyone was more experienced in audio technology to give a more experienced view on this amp that seems reasonable value
[20:06] <ikonia> or have I missed what you are trying to say
[20:07] <redtape-renegade> Idon't think we are on the same page . Good luck with your electronic thingy.
[20:07] <ikonia> redtape-renegade: sorry, am I missing what you are trying to say ?
[20:08] <ikonia> redtape-renegade: if you could try again,
[20:10] <shauno> miniwatt's website is .. interesting
[20:11] <ikonia> shauno: yeah, it looks like it's been taken down to the minimum waiting for a new product release.
[20:13] <shauno> I've been looking at getting a turntavble too, but sticker shock seems to be the name of the game now
[20:16] <Myrtti> how much is it?
[20:16] <ikonia> shauno: I find an excellent pioneer (excellent in terms of usable for home use and good quality) for £80 which I thought was worth while as it was around £400 new
[20:17] <ikonia> MartijnVdS: £150-ish
[20:17] <ikonia> oops
[20:17] <ikonia> Myrtti: the amp is around £126 - £150
[20:17] <Myrtti> does it really use valves?
[20:17] <popey> valves and big dials it appears
[20:17] <popey> I read a rather good review of it earlier
[20:18] <Myrtti> wow.
[20:18] <popey> http://www.hifivision.com/reviews/5648-miniwatt-tube-amplifier.html
[20:18] <ikonia> (to just play a few old records)
[20:18] <ikonia> popey: yes, the reviews seem positive and good value, hence why it maybe a good investment for a little amp
[20:18] <shauno> and chunky transformers judging from the boxes behind the valves
[20:19] <yarinse> hola, como puedo desintalar android?
[20:19] <popey> my ears probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and a crappy amp from Tandy
[20:20] <ikonia> popey: with records the sound does tend to be more extreme difference depending on the amp / speakers
[20:20] <popey> that may be, but I stick by my assertion ☺
[20:21] <ikonia> still for £126 / £150 for something that can be tucked away, it seems reasonable
[20:21] <ikonia> almost a little too good to be true
[20:22] <shauno> I think I'd trust a no-name chinese more than tandy these days :/
[20:22] <ikonia> also don't seem to be too many around at the moment, but if it is a good value as it seems, I'll dig one out
[20:22] <popey> well, the amp i am thinking of that I had in my youth from Tandy was a Memorex brand iirc
[20:23] <popey> which did fine driving my TDL RTL-2's
[20:23] <popey> which I miss
[20:23] <shauno> tandy as a whole was quite a different beast in your youth though
[20:23] <shauno> last time I saw one, they appeared to specialise in cellphone cases
[20:24] <popey> i still have the RTL-2's in the loft but the drivers are wrecked
[20:24] <ikonia> I have an old 80's pioneer amp that will work fine, but it's quite big, I thought this maybe a nice replacement
[20:24] <popey> would love to get them up and running again
[20:24] <ikonia> popey: are you electronically savvy enough to ?
[20:25] <popey> to replace speakers, yeah
[20:25] <ikonia> ah, it's just the speakers thats gone
[20:25] <popey> yup
[20:26]  * popey drifts into fond memories of ~20 years ago
[20:26] <popey> blimey, time flies
[20:26] <ikonia> half the reason I want to play some old records
[20:27] <ikonia> I bought the CD's of them, but they basicall transfered the recordings onto CD and it's not gone across well
[20:27] <ikonia> the records still sound good when played though
[20:27] <popey> i need some bzr help...
[20:30] <popey> \o/ rtfm works
[20:40] <popey> \o/ success
[20:41] <popey> bug 1153346
[20:41] <popey> this is where we discover I can't actually write python :D
[20:45] <ali1234> how do i view the code?
[20:46] <ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~popey/phablet-tools/download-only/revision/64?start_revid=64
[20:48] <ali1234> well your indent style doesn't seem to follow the rest
[20:48] <ali1234> but apart from that it looks ok
[20:49] <ali1234> lines 89-94 need one more space
[20:50] <ali1234> oh, why not use parse.add_mutually_exclusive_group()?
[20:52] <ali1234> hmm... i'm gonna rewrite this, ok?
[20:54] <popey> knock yourself out
[20:55] <popey> i thought I used the same indent, thanks for noticing
[20:55] <ali1234> how do i propose a patch on top of your proposed patch?
[20:58] <ali1234> what does "autodetect fails device" mean?
[20:59] <popey> bad english
[20:59] <popey> it just means "it's not in the list of supported devices"
[20:59] <popey> i.e. gnex, n7, n4, n10
[21:00] <popey> but using the codenames of course
[21:00] <ali1234> so why not just say "unsupported device" - it's not even trying to autodetect?
[21:00] <popey> it used to
[21:00] <popey> i _think_
[21:00] <ali1234> it does, if a device is plugged in
[21:00] <ali1234> did you break that?
[21:01] <ali1234> "requires target device"
[21:01]  * popey checks
[21:01] <popey> it detected my grouper
[21:01] <ali1234> so if you just say -D now, it still detects it and only downloads the images?
[21:02] <ali1234> i would implement this as -D(on't flash)
[21:03] <popey> nice
[21:03] <ali1234> rather than -D(ownload only)
[21:03] <popey> no -D fails (as it should)
[21:03] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ phablet-flash -D
[21:03] <popey> Device type must be specified when in download only mode
[21:03] <ali1234> why should it?
[21:03] <popey> oh, i see
[21:03] <popey> bum
[21:03]  * popey unlinks the merge and plays more
[21:03] <popey> good call
[21:03] <ali1234> -d should be optional
[21:04] <ali1234> override, if you want to get the image and don't have the device
[21:05] <ali1234> ooo it's snowing :S
[21:05] <popey> phew! that was close, misclicked "merge" instead of "rejected"
[21:06] <popey> then corrected :D
[21:07] <ali1234> welll you can always rebase :P
[21:16] <AlanBell> evening all
[21:17] <AlanBell> anyone seen this kind of thing from Banshee or rhythmbox when trying to copy music to an iPad? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5602689/
[21:17] <AlanBell> Failed to save iPod database - GLib.GException: Unsupported checksum type (in `libgpod-sharp')
[21:21] <AlanBell> got dad a USB turntable thing and showed him how to record stuff in Audacity and save as MP3, it plays great in rhythmbox or banshee but copying it to the ipad in the way he normally copies stuff fails
[21:21] <AlanBell> he was dead impressed that banshee managed to look up the album cover art from the name
[21:26] <ali1234> hmm detect_device bombs out with exit 0 so no chance to print a helpful error message if there's no device plugged in
[21:33] <ali1234> popey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/phablet-tools/download-only/revision/64
[21:39] <popey> ali1234: much better
[21:40] <popey> you should propose that for merging and attach to the bug ☺
[21:40] <popey> (thanks)
[21:40] <ali1234> yeah cos i know how to do that :)
[21:41] <popey> heh, i only found out 40 mins ago!
[21:41] <popey> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/phablet-tools/download-only click Propose for merging
[21:42] <popey> it should already know where to merge it to
[21:42] <popey> also below that is a Link a bug report
[21:42] <popey> but the bug number in.. job done
[21:42] <popey> s/but/put/
[21:42] <popey> jenkins will do it's CI magic, then wait till tomorrow when a human will review and merge it
[21:48] <ali1234> is this code covered by the CLA?
[21:49] <popey> good question, no idea
[21:49] <ali1234> i never signed CLA, got a patch into ubuntu achievements though :)
[21:49] <popey> ask rsalveti perhaps?
[21:49] <popey> heh
[21:53] <ali1234> i like how lp waits a bit before sending emails and bundles up all changes, instead of spamming me to death
[21:53] <popey> yeah, it never used to
[23:24] <redtape-renegade> Just a bit of candy for the eyes with a coding slant for the week's end :: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eBV14-3LT-g
[23:43] <ali1234> cinder looks cool
[23:43] <ali1234> i could have used something like that a couple of years ago
[23:43] <ali1234> ended up just writing my own :/


[18:56] <devster31> hi, I can't find this, if cloud-init failed the first boot ddoes it get executed at the second boot?
[18:56] <devster31> and if so, how can I prevent that?


[00:41] <blr> wgrant: can I render a value from services.config without setting the property on the view?
[00:42] <wgrant> blr: modules/lp.services.config/config in TALES will get you the current configuration.
[00:43] <blr> wgrant: ah excellent thanks
[02:36] <maozhou_> wgrant: do you kown how to delete a series on my test launchpad server?
[02:43] <maozhou_>  Is there anynone knows how to delete a series?
[02:49] <maozhou> oh,the network is bad
[02:53] <maozhou> is there anyone knows how to delete the series?
[03:10] <wgrant> maozhou: It's not possible to delete a distroseries without complex DB surgery.
[03:13] <maozhou> ok
[03:15] <maozhou> and how to delete a builder ? It's not possible to delete a builder  without modification of DB?
[03:19] <wgrant> no, builders can't be deleted, as they're referenced by builds that they have performed. when we decommission a builder, we unset "builder ok" and "publicly visible" to dispose of it.
[03:26] <maozhou> but sometimes the builder is not available, if we can't delete it, the list of builders will be more and more.
[03:40] <wgrant> maozhou: unchecking the "publicly visible" flag hides it from the list
[03:44] <maozhou> wgrant: that's a good idea
[03:54] <blr> wgrant: sorry, could you clarify what you mean by the view should have a _label_ of "configure code"
[03:55] <blr> did you mean a heading in the template? where your inline comment was placed it seemed like you were asking for an update to the docstring in the view class
[03:58] <blr> have added an h2 with context/name at any rate.
[04:01] <wgrant> blr: Ah, sorry, views have two special properties.
[04:01] <wgrant> page_title, and label.
[04:01] <blr> wgrant: added a .note class, does this look okay? http://i.imgur.com/J1N7L4g.png
[04:01] <blr> wgrant: ah I see, no need to have it in the template.
[04:02] <wgrant> blr: label appears as the h1 on the page, page_title in the breadrumbs in the head.
[04:02] <wgrant> Yep
[04:02] <wgrant> blr: That looks fine, yep.;
[04:30] <blr> wgrant: any thoughts on an appropriate name for the vcs inferring function if I push it into the model?
[04:31] <blr> inferred_vcs or default_vcs?
[04:35] <wgrant> blr: inferred_vcs makes sense to me.
[04:35] <blr> thanks
[04:35] <wgrant> blr: It won't be around for terribly long, I suspect, as we can fill in all existing rows once the UI to change it is in palce.
[04:36] <maozhou> I create a series which derives from "utopic", but I can't find arch of 386, why? like this : http://imgur.com/8wEriuZ
[04:38] <wgrant> maozhou: That architecture apparently doesn't exist in the previous series of that distribution.
[04:38] <wgrant> Only the first series in a distribution can copy from another distribution; subsequent series always copy from the previous series in the same distro.
[04:41] <maozhou> wgrant:It's the first series in a distribution, I have created a new distribution.
[04:43] <wgrant> maozhou: Are you sure that your version of utopic has i386?
[04:47] <maozhou> wgrant: Yes , I'm sure. like this: http://imgur.com/ytOFPQC
[04:50] <wgrant> maozhou: Is there an i386 checkbox on the new distribution's primary archive's admin page?
[04:53] <maozhou>  wgrant: what's the URL of the new distribution's primary archive's admin page??
[04:54] <wgrant> maozhou: Like https://launchpad.dev/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+admin, except not ubuntu
[05:00] <blr> wgrant: should productseries-setbranch.pt be in code/templates?
[05:00] <wgrant> blr: I'd say so. It's on a Registry object, but it's a totally Code-specific view.
[05:00] <wgrant> Registry is quite big enough :)
[05:01] <blr> wgrant: ok, I'll take this opportunity to move it - I just cargoculted product-setbranch from that, so figured that was where it should live!
[05:01] <wgrant> blr: By no means an unreasonable assumption.
[05:04] <maozhou> wgrant: I can't find the i386 checkbox .http://imgur.com/NVI7ePR
[05:05] <wgrant> maozhou: It would be immediately below the bottom of that image.
[05:05] <wgrant> A checkbox for each architecture, if you're running modern code.
[05:05] <wgrant> Or potentially none, if you're running old code.
[05:10] <maozhou> wgrant:http://i.imgur.com/OXU5S1s.png . I still can't it ,may be I'm running old code.
[05:10] <wgrant> maozhou: Right, in that case it's not relevant.
[05:10] <wgrant> maozhou: I think I may know what the problem is, though.
[05:11] <wgrant> If you're running a largely unmodified development config, your batch navigator settings will be configured to use very small batches.
[05:11] <wgrant> +initseries assumes that all of the architectures will be returned in a single batch.
[05:12] <wgrant> (because all production-like systems have a default batch size of 75, far higher than the number of architectures)
[05:13] <wgrant> Try increasing config.launchpad.default_batch_size to 75 or so, restarting the application, and refreshing the page.
[05:18] <maozhou> wgrant: what's the "batch size" mean?
[05:19] <wgrant> maozhou: When a request is made for a potentially large collections of objects, only a fixed number are returned at a time. eg. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ only shows the first 75 bugs.
[05:20] <wgrant> maozhou: In the development config, the number is 5, not 75.
[05:21] <maozhou> I understand
[05:26] <maozhou> wgrant: how to increasing config.launchpad.default_batch_size? need I modify DB or code?
[05:27] <wgrant> maozhou: launchpad-lazr.conmf
[05:27] <wgrant> -m
[05:28] <maozhou> ok
[05:34] <maozhou> wgrant: I have increased config.launchpad.default_batch_size to 75 ,after running "make run_all" , I still can't find arch of i386.
[05:37] <wgrant> maozhou: Perhaps that was not the problem after all. Does https://launchpad.dev/api/devel/ubuntu/utopic/architectures list i386?
[05:38] <maozhou> But，I can find arch of i386 if the series is  derives from other series， eg. 14.04 .....
[05:38] <wgrant> SELECT architecturetag, enabled FROM distroarchseries WHERE distroseries = (SELECT id FROM distroseries WHERE name = 'utopic' AND distribution = 1);
[05:43] <maozhou> wgrant: https://launchpad.dev/api/devel/ubuntu/utopic/architectures  doesn't list i386.
[05:43] <wgrant> I suspect, then, that someone has set the disabled flag on it.
[05:43] <wgrant> The SQL statement will confirm.
[05:43] <maozhou> ok
[05:49] <maozhou> wgrant: You are right , arch of i386 has been disabled by someone, I recovered it , then I find the arch of i386.  Thank you.
[05:49] <wgrant> Great.
[05:49] <wgrant> Disabling an architecture is meant to be permanent, so you may run into trouble. But it may be fine depending on when they did it.
[05:52] <maozhou> yes
[05:56] <maozhou> Only the first series in a distribution can copy from another distribution, Is it reasonable?
[06:01] <maozhou> If the first series is incomplete, we can't delete it, and the subsequent series can't copy from another distribution, that's in trouble
[06:06] <wgrant> Correct, you need to be careful and work out what you're going to do.
[06:06] <wgrant> Launchpad can only do so much automatically, due to file conflicts.
[06:07] <wgrant> Planning how a distro will operate before you start using it is absolutely essential.
[06:07] <wgrant> In some cases you may want to initialise it without any packages and copy the relevant packages in yourself.
[06:17] <maozhou> I understand.
[06:58] <maozhou> wgrant: If I have created new distribution and series. how to upload the chroot-xxx-.tar.bz2 to the series? I can only upload it to the series which belong to ubuntu.
[07:14] <wgrant> maozhou: manage-chroot defaults to Ubuntu, but you can tell it to use any distro.
[07:23] <maozhou> ok,thans
[07:23] <maozhou> thanks
[07:40] <maozhou> wgrant: I have created new distribution and series, and the series is initialized successful. But  I can't find the series which belong to the new distribution. And upload thd chroot-xxx.tar.bz2 is error. http://imgur.com/zc8ijjW   http://imgur.com/mAbPLux
[07:41] <wgrant> maozhou: You'll find the series if you click "All series". The distro page doesn't show series with status=Experimental by default; you probably want to set it to Development.
[07:41] <wgrant> The manage-chroot error is a permission problem.
[07:43] <wgrant> Specifically, you need to be either an admin or a member of the primary archive's owner team to manage its chroots.
[07:46] <maozhou> wgrant：but I can upload the chroot file to "ubuntu:utopic" successful  in the same way
[07:47] <wgrant> maozhou: The user you're logged in as is probably a member of the team that owns your Ubuntu's primary archive.
[07:50] <maozhou> wgrant: how to add current user to the team that owns my distribution‘s archive？
[07:52] <wgrant> maozhou: The primary archive will be owned by the distribution's original owner.
[07:52] <wgrant> That may, in this case, be the ~name16 user.
[07:55] <maozhou> wgrant： but the current user is ~name16<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:56] <wgrant> maozhou: What does https://launchpad.dev/api/devel/kylin2/+archive/primary say about the owner_link?
[08:11] <maozhou> wgrant : I'm sorry, there are something wrong with my notebook, it's panic just now , can you repeat it?
[08:12] <wgrant> 17:56:31   wgrant | maozhou: What does https://launchpad.dev/api/devel/kylin2/+archive/primary say about the owner_link?
[08:19] <maozhou> #wgrant:  http://imgur.com/p8y9tsa
[08:21] <wgrant> maozhou: Mysterious.  It depends who you were logged in as when you first ran an API client against launchpad.dev.
[08:29] <wgrant> You can run seahorse and delete the launchpad.dev entry to force it to reauthenticate.
[08:29] <maozhou> but how to authenticate my API client as ~name16?
[08:30] <wgrant> If there's no token in gnome-keyring (which seahorse manages), running manage-chroot will prompt you to use your browser to authorise the client again.
[08:30] <wgrant> It will authenticate as ~name16 if you authorise it from a browser logged in as ~name16.
[08:33] <maozhou> what's seahorse?
[08:35] <wgrant> maozhou: seahorse is the graphical GNOME Keyring manager.
[08:37] <maozhou> i understand
[08:48] <maozhou> wgrant: which passwd should I delete? It is "Password for 'System-wide: Ubuntu (kylin)@https://api.launchpad.dev/' on 'launchpadlib'" ?
[08:51] <wgrant> maozhou: That's the one.
[08:53] <maozhou> ok
[08:54] <cjwatson> maozhou: You said name16's e-mail address was<EMAIL_ADDRESS> Please change that (or, better, create a new user to add to the same teams and deactivate name16); that's the address you spammed a couple of months ago, and you said yesterday you were going to change the sampledata addresses.
[08:55] <cjwatson> maozhou: If you change the existing user's address, please do it manually with SQL so that LP doesn't send an address change notification to the old address.
[08:59] <maozhou> cjwatson: I'm sorry about that, I will modify DB about the mail addresses now.
[09:00] <maozhou> cjwatson: Which email addresses  spammed you?
[09:14] <maozhou> cjwatson: I'm surprised about it , I haven't configured the email. The vaule of Mailer is stub in "devel/zcml/package-includes/mail-configure-normal.zcml"
[09:44] <cjwatson> maozhou: I don't know what was the source address, because I'm not behind<EMAIL_ADDRESS>it was reported by one of our sysadmins.
[13:52] <cjwatson> blr: Fixed your code-in-swift nit; can I take your comment as an Approve vote?
[13:52] <cjwatson> (and thanks)
[16:07] <cjwatson> wgrant,blr: I've tested self-imports from LP git to LP bzr, and they work fine now, both https:// and (should anyone so desire) git://.
[16:07] <cjwatson> So definitely no firewall problems there.
[16:36]  * cjwatson creates https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/git-import-test to see what will happen
[16:41] <cjwatson> wgrant,blr: Oh dear, this plan may work for turnip but apparently not for Launchpad itself.  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/209437153/cjwatson-launchpad-git-import-test.log
[16:43] <cjwatson> Maybe code-import-worker could bump its recursion depth, but I have no idea what it would need to bump it to
[17:05] <cjwatson> blr: code-in-swift is just the first pass, BTW; I've been looking through some other deployments and the wsgi-app charm, and working out how I want this to look.  wsgi-app (although we can't use it directly because we have significant non-WSGI components) does something not a million miles away from what deployment-manager does, and I think we want the same kind of thing: [current_symlink, previous_symlink, build_label] config ...
[17:05] <cjwatson> ... entries, mojo spec looks at build_label and pushes a tarball for that rev into swift if it needs to, charm ensures that it has unpacked copies from swift of all the configured things and GCs old unused ones
[17:06] <cjwatson> To upgrade we juju set previous_symlink to current_symlink, build_label and current_symlink to the new rev, and mojo run --manifest manifest-upgrade
[17:07] <cjwatson> To rollback we mojo run --manifest manifest-rollback, which does juju set current_symlink=$previous_symlink
[17:07] <cjwatson> (and the rest)
[17:09] <cjwatson> And upgrades shouldn't have the scary thing of overwriting the running code in place any more
[17:10] <cjwatson> Anyway, I'm EOD and on leave tomorrow, so will pick this up on my back burner next week if I get time
[20:44] <blr> cjwatson: oh yes, of course :)
[20:45] <blr> cjwatson: that sounds like an excellent improvement
[20:52] <blr> hmm no comments on your issue yet wgrant, clearly you've put the fear in them.
[22:02] <blr> wgrant: hmm, does it make sense for ProductSeries to also have inferred_vcs? the context is of course now different in ProductSetBranchView
[22:03] <blr> I suspect I should just check for the existence of self.context.inferred_vcs in initial_values instead
[22:10] <blr> ah ForbiddenAttribute :|
[22:11] <blr> wgrant: how can I check for a property on a proxied object?
[22:26] <wgrant> cjwatson: The LP repo is packed with depth=200 IIRC. I'm tempted to fix dulwich to not recurse, though.
[22:27] <wgrant> blr: You need to add it to the interface (or configure.zcml manually, if that class names attributes directly rather than using its interfaces for security)
[22:30] <blr> wgrant: I think I want the latter, I'm not sure it makes sense for ProductSeries to have the property
[22:38] <wgrant> blr: Oh, I missed the first part of your question, sorry.
[22:39] <wgrant> blr: ProductSeries.vcs doesn't make sense, so you always want to find Product.inferred_vcs.
[22:39] <wgrant> blr: Consider always using self.context.pillar.inferred_vcs.
[22:39] <wgrant> .pillar is on a lot of Registry objects as a way to get to the Product or Distribution that contains the object.
[22:39] <wgrant> It even works on Product and Distribution themselves.
[22:40] <blr> ah wasn't aware of that, useful thanks
[23:12] <blr> wgrant: is it acceptable to call a private method from the view?
[23:13] <blr> (in this case Product._default_git_repository)
[23:15] <blr> well, a cachedprop.
[23:18] <wgrant> blr: Not usually. Why?
[23:18] <wgrant> If you want the default repo, I would define a property on the view that uses IGitRepositorySet
[23:19] <blr> wgrant: for the configure code link, which currently only checks for development_focus.branch
[23:21] <wgrant> blr: Ah, you misunderstood my recommendation.
[23:21] <blr> quite possibly!
[23:21] <wgrant> blr: The need for the check goes away if you fix it so the link isn't randomly different from the others.
[23:21] <wgrant> None of the others change based on whether a branch is set or not.
[23:21] <wgrant> s/a branch/the config/
[23:22] <wgrant> If we keep the check, it needs to be fixed to consider the Git case too.
[23:22] <wgrant> But I don't think we need to keep the check.
[23:22] <blr> wgrant: ah, so you're happy for it to just read 'configure code' in either case
[23:22] <blr> agreed, I don't think we're losing much by having a simple link
[23:23] <wgrant> We don't lose much, and we gain simplicity, performance and consistency.
[23:24] <blr> 'Configure code' and 'Configure code for this project' for text and summary work?
[23:27] <wgrant> Link summaries are silly, as they only appear as tooltips, but that works for consistency.
[23:31] <wgrant> cjwatson: I think your sampledata was out of date. Will testfix if you're not around.
[23:36] <wgrant> Have fixed the dulwich issue, trying an import locally now.
[23:38] <wgrant> Looks happy.


[00:20] <ramiro> hello
[00:22] <ramiro> how would I go about the following issue?: a cross-compiler depends on pre-compiled runtime libraries. with them, I build the compiler. then I can build the runtime libraries again. So the runtime libraries depend on themselves.
[00:23] <RAOF> That sounds like a typical bootstrapping problem; I'd guess off the top of my head that gcc does that, and I'm fairly sure mono does, too.
[00:25] <ramiro> it is possible to build them in many steps, but then I'd have to bundle the runtime source with gcc and have a somewhat complex debian/rules.
[00:26] <RAOF> You're bootstrapping; you're going to have a somewhat complex debian/rules *regardless*.
[00:27] <ramiro> heh, makes sense.
[00:27] <RAOF> You can bundle binaries in the source package as long as they get rebuilt during the build - ie: patching some source and then rebuilding should Do The Right Thing™
[01:46] <crimsun> poor chris.
[01:51] <RAOF> I wonder what's bouncing me.
[01:51] <StevenK> RAOF: "Excess Flood"
[01:52] <RAOF> That seems odd, given I wasn't actually doing anything at all.
[01:52] <StevenK> Indeed
[01:52] <RAOF> Perhaps a bug against smuxi is in order.
[01:55] <micahg> RAOF: there was a huge netsplit a little while ago
[01:56] <RAOF> Ah.  Maybe that triggers it?  Was that when I started bouncing?
[01:57] <micahg> RAOF: yes
[02:12] <stochastic> what's the program that's similar to 'apt-get source package' but instead pulls the latest code from launchpad?
[02:13] <micahg> stochastic: pull-lp-source
[02:13] <stochastic> thanks micahg
[02:13] <dhillon-v10> hi all, can anyone look here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cln/+bug/508995 and tell me why the patch I provided doesn't work?
[02:42] <StevenK> wgrant: O hai -- how long does it take qa.uw.com/ftbfs to notice something does now build?
[02:43] <wgrant> StevenK: It makes a *lot* of requests to Launchpad, so it only runs every six hours.
[02:43] <wgrant> That frequency is arbitrary.
[02:45] <StevenK> wgrant: Yeah, sounds reasonable
[02:56] <ajmitch> wgrant: so the next step is to get some batching happening in the API?
[03:12] <RAOF> Oh, poot.  I misspelled “Requires.private” as “Requires.Private”.
[03:15] <hakaishi> Hey folks! Anyone up to advocate/review qt-shutdown-p? It is a small program to shutdown the computer. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p
[03:50] <rhpot1991> anyone know if there is a way to tell pbuilder-dist to save changes?  I can't seem to get the pbuilder --save-after-login flag to work with it
[03:52] <crimsun> depends on the type(s) of changes, but generally, --save-after-exec --override-config
[03:52] <rhpot1991> crimsun: I just need to add my ppa to my apt sources
[03:53] <rhpot1991> normally I'd login and do --save-after-login, add the ppa exit and all would be good
[03:53] <rhpot1991> but with pbuilder-dist it doesn't seem to honor that flag (or I'm doing something silly)
[03:55] <RAOF> It does (or should) honour that flag, but it also overrides a bunch of your config with each invocation.  Say, for example, that you don't want mirror.kernel.org as your mirror?  Currently, you're out of luck with pbuilder-dist.
[03:56] <RAOF> That might also cause it to kill your added entries in sources.list; I'm unsure.
[03:59] <rhpot1991> RAOF: well I used pbuilder and pointed at the resulting .tzr file and it seems to have saved it, but oddly enough when I logged in with pbuilder-dist it didn't show me the saved data
[03:59] <rhpot1991> I'll go ahead and build and see if it works
[03:59] <rhpot1991> I need my PPA to match a dependency that isn't pushed yet
[04:03] <dhillon-v10> crimsun: hi there, can you have a look here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cln/+bug/508995 if you have a minute or so
[04:05] <dhillon-v10> crimsun: why is the patch not applying? I did it using bzr
[04:14] <micahg> if something is marked won't fix, if it's released with a proper changelog entry, will the status change to Fix Released?
[04:15] <rhpot1991> RAOF: well, I went in with pbuilder added them, updated, everthing is ok.  Then I run pbuilder-dist and it doesn't seem to obey :(
[04:15] <rhpot1991> guess I'll have to go straight up pbuilder for now
[04:16] <RAOF> micahg: You mean: there's a changelog entry * foo, bar: fixes (LP: #123456), where bug 123456 is currently set to “won't fix”?  I think that'll set it to fix released.
[04:16] <micahg> RAOF: that's my question :)
[04:17] <RAOF> I'm fairly sure it'll set it to fixed released.  Do you not want it to?
[04:17] <micahg> RAOF: no, I want it to so I don't have to make more bug noise ;)
[04:18] <ScottK> micahg: Although I have to wonder why something that's marked wontfix is getting fixed.
[04:19] <micahg> ScottK: source package change
[04:19] <ScottK> Generally we're pretty conservative about putting that on a bug.
[04:19] <micahg> firefox 3.6 will return to the firefox source package which was formerly firefox 2
[04:20]  * micahg put it there in a lot of cases
[04:21] <micahg> it was correct at the time
[04:33] <persia> IF it was correct at the time, why isn't it still correct?  "Won't Fix" should be reserved for stuff we really aren't expecting to fix.  Notabug and the like.
[04:38] <micahg> persia: it was firefox 2 which was won't fix, now it's firefox 3.6 which will be fix released
[04:38] <micahg> we intended to stick with versioned source packages until upstream decided to do rapid releases
[04:38] <persia> I still think it oughtn't have been won'tfix.  That should only be used where we specifically intend not to fix something.
[04:39] <persia> Getting it fixed later, even by accident, makes us look indecisive.
[04:40] <micahg> persia: so, you're saying I should comment anyways and explain?
[04:40] <persia> Leaving a comment in the bug explaining why circumstances have changed would mak sense, and changing the bug from "wontfix" to "triaged" or something with the comment.
[04:41] <persia> Then you go from "Triaged" to "Fix Released" with the upload.
[04:41] <micahg> persia: ok, I'll do that, it's only 3 bugs in this case
[04:41] <persia> But try to avoid these :)
[04:41] <micahg> yep, it's unfortunate, but necessary
[05:26] <ScottK> persia: Sometimes circumstances change and so wontfix should change too.
[05:27] <persia> ScottK: Agreed.  I just think that 1) it deserves explanation when it happens, and 2) we should try not to do that.
[05:27] <ScottK> Certainly.
[05:28] <ScottK> I'd rather look indecisive than make present virtue out of past necessity.
[05:30] <persia> I'd rather avoid both, but given the choice I have to agree.
[07:11] <dholbach> good morning
[07:12] <SevenMachines> morning
[09:42] <dholbach> BlackZ: so does autotrash use a setup.py based installation?
[09:42] <BlackZ> dholbach, yes
[09:43] <dholbach> you could try just using /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny (with debhelper 7)
[09:43] <dholbach> DktrKranz: do you have a good example for an python app using dh7?
[09:44] <POX> dholbach: gaupol :)
[09:44] <johe|work> hi there, i submited an new package version to an bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-pysnmp4/+bug/509495 what does i nedd to do now, to get it replaced in repositry
[09:45] <dholbach> thanks POX
[09:45] <dholbach> BlackZ: apt-get source --diff-only gaupol; less gaupol*.diff.gz
[09:45] <dholbach> BlackZ: that'll give you an idea how to do it
[09:46] <BlackZ> dholbach, thx
[09:46] <dholbach> BlackZ: and if you get stuck, just ask in here, somebody will be able to help you :)
[09:55] <POX> dholbach: zless, I guess (and gaupol has to be >= 0.14-1)
[09:55] <dholbach> POX: less works too
[09:58] <POX> not here (I don't have LESSOPEN defined)
[10:02] <dholbach> POX: ah ok
[10:04] <randomaction> johe|work: you need to provide a debdiff (modification to the *source* package), and see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[10:04] <johe|work> randomaction, thx
[10:04] <randomaction> johe|work: see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix (it tells you how to produce a debdiff)
[10:27] <jariq> Could someone please review package ipwatchd ? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/ipwatchd
[12:30] <hyperair> dholbach: ping. regarding the whole MC losing quorum thing, how should i go about applying as a MOTU, if i can't make the next meeting? (it's 3AM local time)
[12:33] <persia> hyperair: You could try an email application, but otherwise, you'd do best to wait until the 2nd February DMB meeting, at which we can hope some direction is provided.
[12:33] <persia> Note that we haven't had any successful email applications in a while, and getting it complete in the next six days would be tricky.
[12:35] <ScottK> Althernatively, suck it up and get up in the middle of the night ...
[12:36]  * persia expects some MC members to be attending in the middle of the (local) night.
[13:20] <DktrKranz> dholbach: I finished my job journey and I'm back town, so I can regularly take my session tonight :)
[13:47] <Quintasan> Hello
[13:48] <slytherin> Quintasan: hi
[13:48] <Quintasan> slytherin: \o
[13:48] <slytherin> Why do we have two links pointing to different FTBFS pages in topic?
[13:52] <ScottK> Because one if packages that failed to build in the archive and the other is ones that failed to build in a rebuild test.
[13:53] <slytherin> ScottK: So is the second url relevant all the time?
[13:54] <ScottK> slytherin: Yes.  lucas has been doing regular rebuild tests for us this cycle.
[13:54] <slytherin> Then it is fine.
[15:33] <ramiro> I'm using reprepro to manage a repository. When I included a new version of a package, the old one was deleted because it was unreferenced. How do I make it so that all packages always remain in the repository, and it's the user's job to select which one he wants? (and by default he gets the latest version)
[15:55] <nigel_nb> maco, around?
[15:55] <persia> ramiro: You'll need to either use less smart repository software, or very custom solution.
[15:57] <ramiro> ugh, a less smart repository software means I'll have to be less dumb =). which one do you suggest?
[15:57] <persia> I'm not the right person to suggest any: I don't manage repositories (but we don't much generally here).  apt-ftparchive is probably the least fancy of the options.
[16:06] <freeflying> ramiro: dak maybe :)
[16:09] <persia> freeflying: Doesn't dak autoexpire superceded stuff?  Anyway, I can't imagine it being useful for less than 10,000 packages.
[16:10] <ScottK> persia: Depends on the pain to package ratio you find acceptable.
[16:10] <persia> heh.  I suppose :)
[16:11] <freeflying> persia: mini-dak then  :)
[16:16] <dholbach> ajmitch_: if you have a bit of time - do you think you could help out with reviewing the zope* packages on REVU?
[16:18] <ScottK> Considering there's an active Zope team in Debian, wouldn't they better go there?
[16:22] <persia> The moreso because they describe themselves as the "Debian/Ubuntu Zope Team"
[16:28] <benste>  hi, if I'd like to have a package merged from debian - what can I do? -https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tiemu/+bug/221332
[16:31] <benste> ?
[16:31] <ScottK> benste: First step would be to look at the changes Ubuntu has from Debian in the package and see if they are still needed/relevant.
[16:31] <persia> benste: There are outstanding Ubuntu changes that need to be investigated before the package is synched.
[16:32] <persia> benste: From a quick glance, I believe it does need a merge, to deal with iceweasel/firefox differences between Debian and Ubuntu.
[16:32] <benste> why should tiemu use FF ?
[16:32] <benste> - where does i have to look for it ?
[16:33] <persia> benste: In Debian, in tiemu 3.02-1, there is a dependency declared on "iceweasel | www-browser".
[16:33] <benste> and whom does I have to propose to include the new version even if it's ok - so already build a ubuntu version
[16:33] <benste> k
[16:33] <persia> This dependency needs to be modified to be "firefox | www-browser"
[16:34] <benste> persia: only changing depency is simple isn't it - simply download source, change config and rebuild deb right ?
[16:34] <persia> Err, sorry.  Needs to be "firefox | abrowser | www-browser"
[16:34] <benste> what about the already build Ubuntu package
[16:34] <persia> benste: Don't even bother rebuilding.  We work exclusively with source packages.
[16:34] <benste> inlcuded in the PPA of one poster
[16:35] <ScottK> persia: Why?
[16:35] <benste> persia: changing depency is all - if so I'll do right away
[16:35] <persia> Download the Debian and Ubuntu package sources.  Merge the changelogs.  modify debian/control to have the right dependency and use "Ubuntu Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as the Maintainer.
[16:35] <ScottK> I think the odds of anyone having no package that provides www-browser installed is effectively nil
[16:35] <persia> Put the previous maintainer in XSBC-Maintainer
[16:36] <persia> Update the changelog, and attach a debdiff to the bug.
[16:36] <benste> persia: would be kind of you to explain me how to do this - or give some simple resources which will guide me through this process
[16:36] <persia> ScottK: Because that's what the mozilla team declared should be the dependency.  See bug #272772
[16:37] <persia> !merge
[16:37] <persia> benste: That URL should give some guidance.  Ask here if you get stuck.
[16:37] <ScottK> persia: since it currently Depends/Recommends neither, it's not applicable
[16:37] <benste> I'll
[16:37] <benste> fo
[16:38] <persia> ScottK: Hrm?  Are you looking at the same tiemu I'm seeing?
[16:38] <persia> Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0), libc6 (>= 2.7), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.5), libglade2-0 (>= 1:2.6.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.14.1), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.21.6), libticables3 (>= 3.9.6-1), libticalcs4 (>= 4.6.1-1), libtifiles0 (>= 0.6.6-1), libxml2 (>= 2.6.27), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), firefox | abrowser | www-browser
[16:38] <ScottK> persia: I'm looking at you having said it depends iceweasel | www-browser
[16:39] <persia> My sid apt-cache says it does.  Am I out of date?
[16:39] <ScottK> No.  I'm saying I think that's sufficient.
[16:39] <persia> I thought that one of the changes we maintained was all the s/iceweasel/firefox/ changes in package relationships.
[16:39] <persia> Do we have a solution for that now?
[16:39] <ScottK> Changing iceweasel | www-browser to firefox | abrowser | www-browser has zero practical effect on user experience
[16:40] <ScottK> The only time that would matter is if the user had no package installed that provided www-browser and that would be hard to accomplish
[16:40] <persia> Well, that removes a whole heap of diffs.
[16:40] <ScottK> I'm just saying I think it's not worth the effort to maintain that diff.
[16:40] <ScottK> It does.
[16:41] <ScottK> Consider it.
[16:41] <persia> I can see the argument, I just thought that there was some intent behind that.
[16:41] <ScottK> I realize it's a change in procedure, but I think it makes sense.
[16:41] <ScottK> If there's some other diff, go ahead and do firefox | abrowser | www-browser too, but if that's it, I'd sync it.
[16:41] <persia> I don't disagree, but I also think that procedure is best changed in combination with interested parties, such as TIL or mozillateam.
[16:42] <persia> fta: Do you have any opinion about tiemu and iceweasel/firefox ?
[16:43] <persia> ScottK: If there wasn't some reason to fiddle the names, the simplest solution to the entire mess would be to have firefox Provide: iceweasel.
[16:43] <ScottK> persia: I agree with that.
[16:43] <persia> So, because we didn't do it the easy way, I presume there's some reason.
[16:43] <ScottK> That would solve an even large set of problems.
[16:44] <ScottK> In theory, changing to firefox | abrowser | www-browser is more correct, but I think it's not worth the trouble.
[16:44] <persia> I don't pretend to understand that reason, but I'll go along as long as others feel it's better to do it the hard way.
[16:45] <ScottK> I don't know that it's been seriously examined in some time.
[16:45] <persia> That's why I asked TIL :)
[17:08] <benste> persia: what if I can't find my package in https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe but in https://merges.ubuntu.com/t/tiemu/
[17:08] <benste> ?
[17:09] <persia> benste: then that would mean the wiki page was out of date :)
[17:09] <benste> lol
[17:09] <benste> persia: the wiki(how to merge) or the list of merges ?
[17:09] <persia> The wiki of how to merge.
[17:09] <benste> so you're using a different site today ?
[17:10] <persia>  /topic says http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~lucas/merges.html , but this may be temporary.
[17:10] <persia> We've been having a lot of discussion about merges this cycle, and I'm not sure we have a final solution yet.
[17:15] <bddebian> Heya gang
[17:16] <benste> persia: thx for this temp info found the last uploader and Scott  replied to the bug too
[17:19] <ScottK> persia: His package is in Multiverse.  That's why he couldn't find it in Universe.
[17:19] <benste> :-9
[17:20] <ScottK> Interesting.  Per architecture support time: "add case were a architecture is supported (armel) but not for the full LTS time" in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-support-timeframe-information
[17:20] <persia> ScottK: Is MoM generally up again, or are we still unsure of a final solution?
[17:22] <persia> ScottK: Separately, that sense of "supported" probably means "labeled as supported", rather than anything else.  Same as hardy lpia in that sense.
[17:23] <ScottK> persia: MoM is unmaintained.
[17:23] <ScottK> Oh, I didn't realize that obtained for Hardy lpia.
[17:23] <persia> That was my understanding.  As a result, I believe the wiki page on merging to be out of date.
[17:23] <ScottK> OTOH, the alternative via bzr is not really mature enough for general use.
[17:24] <persia> I'm not sure it does for all flavours, but I know that because of the way some of the mobile stuff was done on lpia, lpia desktop didn't work reliably anyway because of library issues.
[17:24] <persia> So when the (non-LTS) mobile flavour ended support (18 months), I *think* lpia kinda lost support.
[17:25] <persia> I have no idea about lpia server.
[17:25] <persia> On merging: right.  I don't think we have a good replacement for the merging documentation right now.
[17:27] <ScottK> There are some useful hint in the UDD wiki pages.
[17:27] <ScottK> hint/hints
[17:27] <persia> Yes.  They haven't worked for me yet, but I'm sure that's only a matter of time.
[17:28] <ScottK> Also in the replies to my recent thread on the topic on the UDD mail list.
[17:28] <ScottK> It would be useful for someone to work on a page that was the union of those two resources.
[19:04] <fabrice_sp> lutin, about bug 510693
[19:05] <fabrice_sp> why do you need an ack from u-u-s? IMHO you should be able to push that by yourself
[19:06] <fabrice_sp> (package is still in universe, it seems)
[19:06] <Lutin> fabrice_sp: heh, thought it had been promoted to main already.
[19:06] <Lutin> sorry
[19:07] <fabrice_sp> np: I'll unsubscribe u-u-s then ;-)
[19:08] <fabrice_sp> may I subscribe archive admin also? Or you will take care of it?
[19:09] <Lutin> fabrice_sp: I'll take care of it, thanks
[19:09] <fabrice_sp> ok
[19:42] <pucko-> I have a few packaging problems I was hoping someone could help me with. I want to include a udev-file in my package (which is built with cdbs). but I can't get debhelper to add my udev rule to the package. Supposedly, specifying DEB_INSTALLUDEV_ARGS in debian/rules should take care of it. but it doesn't seen to work. it's just ignored.
[19:42] <fta> persia, ScottK: wrt tiemu, feel free to do whatever you want with it, i just touched it once as part of a massive firefox meta package update
[19:43] <persia> fta: More generally, do you know the reason that we fuss with changing all the package dependencies rather than just having firefox and abrowser Provide: iceweasel?
[19:43] <persia> pucko-: Is this a new package, or a change to an existing package?
[19:44] <pucko-> a new package
[19:44] <pucko-> dh_installudev is actually run, but I can't get it to take the correct arguments.
[19:45] <fta> persia, a lot of debian users are using our firefox packages (because they are fresher), as they also have iceweasel, it's best to keep things separate
[19:46] <persia> fta: So it's worth changing the dependencies of all these packages every cycle?  I just thought that by using Provides: we could sync more packages from Debian.
[19:46] <fta> persia, but you may want to talk to asac about that, those days, i'm mostly focusing on chromium
[19:46] <persia> OK.  I just picked on you because you touched tiemu last :)
[19:47] <persia> pucko-: You need DEB_DH_INSTALLUDEV_ARGS instead of  DEB_INSTALLUDEV_ARGS, but figuring this out is frustrating and tricky.  Might I recommend using /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny as the base of your debian/rules?
[19:47] <pucko-> oh. thanks!
[19:49] <pucko-> um.. that file is just 3 lines :-/
[19:50] <persia> Yep.  Saves lots of messing about.
[19:52] <persia> You can pass arguments to dh_installudev either by passing them to the dh call (but this passes the same arguments (likely usually ignored) to dh_*), or you can add an override_dh_installudev: rule, and put the complete dh_installudev call in that.
[19:52] <persia> (Well, there's lots of other ways to do it too, but those might be easiest)
[19:52] <pucko-> sounds easier to just use the env variable. now that I know it :-)
[19:53] <persia> What's your environment variable setting?
[19:53] <pucko-> I mean that DEB_DH... thing
[19:53] <persia> Right.  What value are you using?
[19:54] <pucko-> oh it worked. DEB_DH_INSTALLDEV_ARGS = --priority=85
[19:55] <persia> pucko-: Here's the two different rules.tiny debian/rules files that do that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/360227/
[19:55] <persia> (and no hunting around for special secret variable names)
[19:55] <pucko-> now I only have this postinst-has-useless-call-to-ldconfig warning. it is added by debhelper for some reason. can I tell it to ignore it?
[19:55] <persia> Are you installing any shared libraries?
[19:56] <pucko-> well. sort of. it's a smart card reader driver. one .so-file that should go into /usr/lib/pcsc/ somewhere.
[19:57] <pucko-> so tha path shouldn't be added to ld.so.conf
[19:57] <pucko-> the
[19:57] <persia> You need to pass arguments to dh_makeshlibs to ignore that.
[19:57] <pucko-> ok.
[20:16] <feuloren> hi, is there packages for gegl 0.1 somewhere ?
[20:18] <randomaction> feuloren: looks like no, Debian has an open request for it
[20:35] <statik> hey Daviey, i just reviewed your django-openid-auth branch. got one minor request for you, and i'll be happy to merge it
[20:50] <hotellina> hi people, do you know how make ubuntu able to show volume levels for all sound peripherals ( usb also) ?
[21:03] <jibel> fabrice_sp, just seen you've sponsored bug 464422. Thank you !
[21:04] <fabrice_sp> jibel, you're welcome: you did all the job ;-)
[21:09] <randomaction> jibel: well done, this was a bug with an enormous amount of duplicates
[21:10] <jibel> randomaction, thanks
[21:11] <randomaction> two such bugs, actually :)
[21:12] <jibel> if anyone knows how to reach the debian maintainer please ping him. It would be great to fix it upstream too.
[21:13] <fabrice_sp> jibel, I saw you reported it there, but no answer :-/
[21:28] <menesis> could someone review/sponsor my zope.* packages on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/u/menesis
[21:32] <pucko-> can anyone tell me why there is both a libusb-0.1-4 and libusb-1.0-0? very confusing..
[21:33] <pucko-> in ubuntu karmic
[21:36] <randomaction> pucko-: it's commonplace to have different versions of libraries in distribution (or installed on the same machine), as different applications may require different versions
[21:37] <pucko-> hm..
[21:40] <pucko-> it seems very specific. why not just libusb0 and libusb1?
[21:44] <tsimpson> because the files are libusb-0.1.so.4 and libusb-1.0.so.0
[21:45]  * Quintasan goes to bed, school etc.
[22:05] <jariq> how long does it take to the package to show up in the ppa after upload?
[22:06] <persia> jariq: ask in #launchpad.
[22:06] <jariq> thx
[22:32] <hggdh> about 5 minutes, anyway
[23:49] <superm1> RainCT, could you ack ~ubuntu-dev-without-bugmail into ~mythbuntu?
[23:50] <RainCT> superm1: sure
[23:50] <superm1> thanks
[23:52] <RainCT> superm1: Uhm, what has changed since the original proposal when we created that team?
[23:52] <superm1> RainCT, it looks like there is a gateway to catch all the extraneous email now isn't there?
[23:53] <superm1> or was there still some other deficiency?
[23:53] <RainCT> superm1: I'm not sure, I'm reading the old mails right now
[23:56] <RainCT> superm1: There was no agreement that ubuntu-dev needed access to such branches: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-August/026207.html
[23:57] <RainCT> superm1: Also, problems with the ~ubuntu-dev-without-bugmail approach were that e-mails other than bugmail were still send to everyone (for example, notifications of new mailing list creations) and that all developers had the Mythbuntu logo on their profile
[23:57] <superm1> Oh right
[23:57] <superm1> well then i guess not worth the troubles still
[23:58] <superm1> once more ~mythbuntu folks are more packaging proficient on their own should just have them apply for per package upload rights and move those branches to ~mythbuntu-dev at that time
[23:58] <superm1> for now it's convenient as it stands
[23:58] <superm1> sorry for the churn, i should have dug that mail up myself and reviewed it


[13:03] <ziroday> kwwii: ping
[13:08] <kwwii> ziroday: pong
[13:09] <ziroday> kwwii: hey, got your mail. Did you just send that?
[13:09] <kwwii> ziroday: yes
[13:09] <kwwii> about half an hour ago or so
[13:10] <ziroday> kwwii: right, was just wondering if my mail server was playing tricks on me again :)
[13:10] <ziroday> kwwii: yeah I would love to push that
[13:11] <ziroday> kwwii: what were you thinking of? Any specific place you want to target (DA, flickr etc) or just a wide competition?
[13:11] <kwwii> DA seems like the best place at the moment
[13:12] <kwwii> I'd like to try something like this out and see how it works, then we could do more
[13:12] <kwwii> flickr doesn't seem organized enough for me
[13:12] <ziroday> kwwii: yeah, DA has a serious community behind it
[13:12] <kwwii> also, I am discussing the idea with design schools
[13:12] <kwwii> ziroday: exactly
[13:12] <kwwii> ziroday: and I have a promise of something around 500€ for prize money, etc
[13:13] <kwwii> naturally, this is for jaunty +1
[13:13] <ziroday> kwwii: wow!
[13:13] <ziroday> kwwii: of course, of course
[13:13] <kwwii> ;)
[13:13] <ziroday> kwwii: well I doubt DA will budge unless somebody with a bigger title comes along (read: you)
[13:13] <_MMA_> kwwii: If you're gonna use DA for a competition don't do like the Inkscape guys and let it drag out forever. (their website contest)
[13:14] <ziroday> kwwii: and as for precedent wise, I know inkscape had a couple of competitions there, that didn't turn out so well
[13:14] <ziroday> _MMA_: jinx :P
[13:14] <_MMA_> ;)
[13:14] <_MMA_> They just let it go too long and people lost interest.
[13:14] <ziroday> kwwii: I can give you the lady who I was talking to in DA before
[13:15] <ziroday> kwwii: she has the authority, but is a hard ass
[13:16] <kwwii> ziroday: that would be awesome
[13:16] <kwwii> no worries, so is my boss :)
[13:16] <ziroday> haha
[13:17] <_MMA_> kwwii: I see we have a new guy lurking. :)
[13:17] <kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, just going to send an email to the list about that
[13:17] <kwwii> _MMA_: man, give me a chance!
[13:17] <_MMA_> hahahah
[13:18] <_MMA_> You'll get your chance. I'm going out for a bit.
[13:20] <ziroday> kwwii: http://anna.deviantart.com/
[13:20] <ziroday> kwwii: the only way I managed to get hold of her was sending notes via DA. The press and contact emails seem to be dead
[13:21] <ziroday> kwwii: now I still have the (very) rough guidelines from before, I can dig those up for you if you like
[13:29] <ziroday> kwwii: anyway I have to go now, mail or ping me if I can do anything (I love boring legwork)
[13:38] <kwwii> ziroday: will do
[13:38] <kwwii> sorry, had to grab lunch
[13:38] <kwwii> ziroday: the guidelines would be great, if you have them
[13:50] <SealV> I had to leave for classes yesterday, but good job on the login screen
[13:53] <kwwii> SealV: thnx
[13:56] <SealV> is there something you want us to be working on?
[13:57] <SealV> because the mailing list is mostly quibbles about random things. and breathe
[13:57] <SealV> whoops.. will be back in 2-3 hours
[14:00] <kwwii> SealV: I'll be back online in about 9 hours (flying home soon)
[14:02] <kwwii> SealV: at the moment, we could really use some good work on the wallpaper
[14:03] <kwwii> SealV: did you see the pdf I sent to the list?
[14:03] <kwwii> oops, too late
[14:05] <andreasn> kwwii, any luck with the relocation of the notification icons from human to hicolor?
[14:05] <andreasn> I bugged Macslow about it the other night, but he told me to bug you again :)
[14:06] <kwwii> andreasn: yes, I am working on it (just not atm)
[14:06] <andreasn> cool, great to hear
[14:06] <kwwii> andreasn: I hope to get it done either tomorrow or on the weekend
[14:07] <andreasn> oh, no hurry. I was mostly worried that it would be broken on the stable install.
[14:07] <kwwii> andreasn: I did tell the notification guys that they basically need to install the icons in the package to icon/hicolor/scalable/status instead of just in icons
[14:07] <kwwii> erm icons/hicolor...
[14:08] <andreasn> I think dobey recommended /usr/share/whatever-the-name-of-the-notify-thing-is/icons/hicolor/scalable/status
[14:09] <kwwii> andreasn: exactly :)
[14:09] <andreasn> I really don't know what the difference is, but he wanted that for some reason
[14:09] <kwwii> well, that is easier for me as all I have to do is tell the coders to do it :p
[14:09] <andreasn> :)
[14:10] <kwwii> andreasn: but when I do it, I want to rename everything first
[14:11] <kwwii> btw, if anyone is interested in the naming of these icons, please let me know!
[14:11] <kwwii> I don't *have* to do this all alone :p
[14:12] <andreasn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDevelopmentGuidelines#How do I get these slick icons
[14:12] <andreasn> sounds like pretty sane names to me, anything special you're thinking about?
[14:14] <kwwii> well, removing the upper case and fixing stupid mistakes, mainly
[14:14] <kwwii> *very-low doesn't make much sense
[14:14] <dashua> _MMA_: DarkMiu  http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_1.1235657572.png
[14:16] <andreasn> what use -very-low?
[14:17] <andreasn> the naming spec have something called *-caution for battery levels
[14:18] <dashua> Notice the blur on notify-osd.  Looks really good.
[14:18] <kwwii> erm, I seem to have fixed that one already :p
[14:19] <andreasn> where is the launchpad page?
[14:20] <kwwii> andreasn: for the icons? the ubuntu icons are directly in the human theme (so it would be on that page as well)
[14:20] <andreasn> ah, ok
[14:20] <kwwii> andreasn: notify-osd is the package name
[14:20] <andreasn> I'll see what I can do about the caps names
[14:21] <kwwii> andreasn: you do realize that I have put gnome icons in the package itself (and those are the ones that will go in /usr/share/icons/notify-osd/icons/hicolor/)
[14:21] <kwwii> andreasn: now worries, if you have better things to do let me take care of it on the weekend
[14:22] <SiDi> hello people
[14:23] <kwwii> hi SiDi
[14:28] <andreasn> kwwii, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-icon-theme/+bug/334472
[14:29] <dashua> SiDi: Hey, any luck with the updates?
[14:29] <SiDi> What do you mean dashua ?
[14:29] <SiDi> oh the Miu theme ?
[14:29] <dashua> Yeah
[14:29] <dashua> Still having issues?
[14:30] <SiDi> No
[14:30] <SiDi> it works great on thunar now, gz :p)
[14:30] <SiDi> damn i think i need to eat and sleep, i'm in a bad state atm :(
[14:30] <dashua> Ah good
[14:30] <kwwii> andreasn: lol, nice...should I make the gnome theme inherit from human?
[14:31] <andreasn> nooooooo!
[14:31] <kwwii> mat_t: hey!
[14:35] <mat_t> kwwii hi
[14:36] <kwwii> hey everyone...mat_t is this wierd guy sitting across from me in the office
[14:36] <kwwii> (he keeps staring!)
[14:36] <thorwil> kwwii: any opinion on my wallpaper concepts so far?
[14:36] <kwwii> actually, he is one of the members of our new design team
[14:36] <mat_t> hi everyone
[14:36] <thorwil> hi mat_t
[14:37] <kwwii> thorwil: actually, I wanted to talk to you about that
[14:37] <SiDi> hi mat_t
[14:37] <mat_t> good to meet you guys
[14:37] <kwwii> mat_t is the man when it comes to design ;)
[14:38] <SiDi> btw, does anyone know yet what will be the colours used in Karmic for the new theme ?
[14:38] <kwwii> SiDi: I heard pink
[14:39] <mat_t> SiDi, we haven't yet started thinking about it :)
[14:40] <mat_t> few ideas are hanging in the air, but nothing concrete atm
[14:40] <thorwil> mat_t: are you on the ubuntu-art mailing list?
[14:40] <SiDi> okies :)
[14:41] <mat_t> thorwil, not atm, but I will be shortly :)
[14:41] <kwwii> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[14:43] <thorwil> mat_t: do you have an online portfolio?
[14:44] <SiDi> reminds me i seriously should update mine. and the port 21 is blocked on my network, practical for FTP :(
[14:44] <mat_t> thorwil, not a personal website, but I used to work for an agency called Rawnet - www.rawnet.com
[14:45] <thorwil> ah, trendy :)
[14:45] <mat_t> thx ;)
[14:46] <thorwil> mat_t: you're the Senior Interactive Designer listed on their team, then
[14:47] <mat_t> I was, I think they still haven't taken me off the website :)
[14:47] <SiDi> means they miss you :p
[14:47] <mat_t> hahaha, they do apparently!
[14:47] <SiDi> What is the job of an Interactive Designer, by the way ?
[14:47] <mat_t> they're good guys, I miss them, too
[14:47]  * thorwil isn't pointing to the other less flattering explanation
[14:48]  * mat_t gets all soggy
[14:48]  * mat_t wonders what the other explanation may be
[14:49] <thorwil> mat_t: they didn't notice he departure? i'm sorry ;)
[14:49] <SiDi> hehe thorwil
[14:49] <swalko> thorwil: hi
[14:49] <thorwil> hi swalko
[14:49] <swalko> thorwil: today i readed wiki
[14:50] <swalko> thorwil: but i have much questions :)
[14:50] <swalko> more
[14:50] <thorwil> swalko: questions are there for being answered. go on :)
[14:51] <mat_t> thorwil, you can try calling rawnet and asking for me, see what happens. Maybe they'll start looking for me in the toilet desperately
[14:51] <mat_t> ;)
[14:51] <swalko> thorwil: breathe will be complete icons set (one time)
[14:51] <thorwil> heh
[14:52] <thorwil> swalko: yes
[14:52] <swalko> thorwil: there will be some icons choosed from oxygen icon set and reused?
[14:52] <swalko> thorwil: or parts od some oxygen icons
[14:53] <swalko> thorwil: of some icons
[14:53] <thorwil> swalko: i actually had something else in mind when you said "wiki". _MMA_ has the final say on anything breath. i will answer all i can, though
[14:54] <thorwil> swalko: at first, Oxygen is used to fill the gaps in Breath
[14:54] <swalko> thorwil: actualy is one big gap :)
[14:54] <thorwil> swalko: and it is well possible that some oxygen icons, just modified, will be used
[14:54] <swalko> thorwil: nothing bad
[14:55] <swalko> thorwil: modified is right word for me
[14:56] <swalko> thorwil: at example mimetypes icons
[14:56] <kwwii> I don't think that the plan is to include oxygen icons in the final set
[14:57] <kwwii> the idea was to make something similar to oxygen but unique to ubuntu
[14:57] <swalko> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Discussion use that background for mimetypes and reuse some parts (app logos) of oxygen icons?
[14:57] <kwwii> again, _MMA_ could tell you more
[14:58] <swalko> kwwii: has breathe icons set ambitions to be a "new ubuntu icons set"
[14:58] <thorwil> swalko: i don't think there has been a definite decision on how to go about the mimetype icons
[14:59] <swalko> thorwil: that was only example
[14:59] <kwwii> swalko: not necessarily, if it would be picked that would be nice but it is not being made with that intention
[14:59] <swalko> thorwil: for me i breathe looking like something that miss me in ubuntu
[14:59] <swalko> thorwil: and in gnome overall
[15:00] <thorwil> swalko: breath is meant to become a suitable option as ubuntu's default, but as we have no say on that, we don't rely on it
[15:00] <thorwil> or expect it
[15:00] <swalko> thorwil: good
[15:00] <thorwil> swalko: you mean you see something in breathe already that you miss elsewhere?
[15:01] <swalko> thorwil: today i cannot say if is it elsewhere, bacause in set are only few icons
[15:01] <SiDi> What i'd like to see in next releases is Dust + Kin + all those new themes designed at the ubuntu wiki instead of the old gnome themes installed by default in /usr/share/themes
[15:01] <SiDi> that'd be great
[15:02] <swalko> thorwil: from my look gnome overall use old styled icons
[15:03] <swalko> thorwil: and need renew
[15:04] <swalko> thorwil: or need "oxygen for gnome" (in meaning modern icon set)
[15:04] <swalko> thorwil: not concrete style or concrete icons set
[15:06] <kwwii> SiDi: indeed, I would also like to remove the cruft from the themes
[15:08] <swalko> may i find somewhere on net real new ubuntu theme?
[15:08] <andreasn> kwwii, cruft?
[15:09] <kwwii> andreasn: old stuff, I mean :)
[15:09] <andreasn> older looking widget themes n stuff?
[15:10] <andreasn> maybe we should lobby thos again to get rid of glider
[15:11] <andreasn> but in order to remove Mist, we need to come up with a widget set that still have the heavy steel feeling to it
[15:11] <andreasn> to replace it with
[15:14] <SiDi> well, it wouldnt be *so* hard to package them in a gnome-legacy-themes and to add an installed-by-default community-themes package containing all the themes you peeps do
[15:14] <andreasn> and Mist is flat and fast (I haven't seen any numbers though), even though the right solution probably is to make all the other ones faster
[15:15] <andreasn> SiDi, possibly. I'm looking at this from the upstream perspective, no idea about Ubuntu
[15:16] <andreasn> and I don't really care about themes or backgrounds, since everyone else care about that too much :)
[15:17] <SiDi> well, when former windows users come to ubuntu, they say "omg the themes apart from default are ugly", actually forgetting the non-default theme on windows is kinda ugly, too
[15:18] <andreasn> oh, really?
[15:18] <SiDi> not all of them say "omg", to be honnest :>
[15:19] <andreasn> I thought the general opinion was that the default was not optimal
[15:19] <andreasn> even though I've come to notice that most people don't really care
[15:19] <SiDi> Well, amongst the installed themes, i mean
[15:19] <SiDi> yeh most of people dont care or dont want to bother with switching. but if those dont like the default theme they may aswell stop using ubuntu, just for that
[15:20] <andreasn> as the important part is the things like the content in the web browser, the fact that Ooo works etc.
[15:20] <SiDi> what i mean is people who have a look at the theme choose window and see only old themes, etc.
[15:24] <andreasn> SiDi, would you like to collect some proper user testimonials about this? like written down and stuff?
[15:24] <andreasn> from like 20 people ()
[15:24] <andreasn> (or maybe 10 will do)
[15:24] <SiDi> err i dont have that much people whose pc i installed ubuntu on :)
[15:25] <andreasn> I think that could be quite useful
[15:25] <SiDi> well i'll do
[15:25] <SiDi> but i dont think i'll get that many :)
[15:25] <andreasn> because all we have right now is testimonials from ourselves
[15:26] <andreasn> and that kind of sucks :)
[15:26] <SiDi> basically i'm making my family use ubuntu, so i'll ask them their points of view, etc
[15:26] <SiDi> but as they usually throw me out for opensource fanatism when i say a word about linux (unless its because they have trouble with their pcs, of course), it might take time..
[15:29] <kwwii> I think that it is important for ubuntu to ship with a decent set of beautifull themes and that currently the gnome-themes package does need some sorting out
[15:31] <andreasn> so we would need replacements for one heavy (and cool), one light, one dark, hm, am I forgetting something now?
[15:31] <andreasn> one pink?
[15:33] <SiDi> hehe pink defo :D
[15:33] <SiDi> well, there are not that much different themes in default gnome
[15:34] <SiDi> apart from mist/industrial/crux, the others are not very used, i think
[15:34] <kwwii> yeah, crux....ouch
[15:34] <SiDi> and we have darkroom, dust, kin, miu, impression, human reprise that could be shipped by default
[15:34] <kwwii> I do think that having something like mist is really important as well
[15:34] <kwwii> but crux can be crucified ;)
[15:34] <SiDi> crux's icons, i meant :P when i get bored of gnome ones on old redhat pcs at uni, i put those
[15:34] <kwwii> :p
[15:35] <kwwii> purple is nice
[15:35] <SiDi> yeh :p
[15:35] <SiDi> btw, does any of you know where i'm likely to find the human theme, but in other colours ?
[15:36] <SiDi> i know a guy packed them on gnome-look.org with a lot of choice, but the site he uploaded them at is down
[15:38] <andreasn> kwwii, I'm not too happy about crux either, but I keep seeing it being used at conferences (I have no idea why)
[15:39] <andreasn> but I brought it up with thos, and we both think we should have something good to replace it with
[15:39] <SiDi> Well, people like purple apparently :p
[15:40] <kwwii> andreasn: yeah, I loved it about 6-7 years ago
[15:40] <andreasn> basically something heavy chrome-thing, kind of like how Apple Finder looks like in the most recent release
[15:41] <andreasn> not copied right off, but something in the same metal styl
[15:41] <andreasn> e
[15:45] <SiDi> not copied off, that'd be great :D
[15:45] <SiDi> i'm so so so sick of the macos/windows clones
[15:48] <SiDi> see you later, out of power on the laptop :)
[16:25] <thorwil> firefox and compiz both like to eat my memory
[16:28]  * _MMA_ is back.
[16:36] <swalko> _MMA_: hi
[16:37] <_MMA_> hi
[16:39] <swalko> _MMA_: i readed wiki
[16:40] <swalko> _MMA_: i want to talk with you about breathe
[16:40] <_MMA_> sure
[16:41] <swalko> _MMA_: i readed on wiki that some oxygen icons may be used or reused
[16:41] <_MMA_> Yes
[16:42] <swalko> _MMA_: have you some idea about criterias for choosing that icons?
[16:43] <_MMA_> Final goal is to redraw everything but if someone wants to reuse Oxygen thats fine.
[16:43] <swalko> _MMA_: my idea is
[16:43] <swalko> _MMA_: use some parts from oxygen icons
[16:43] <swalko> _MMA_: or for start use more oxygen icons
[16:44] <_MMA_> No criteria. Just personal preference. If someone makes a proposal that doesnt fit with what we are currently doing it doesnt go into Breathe.
[16:44] <swalko> _MMA_: with comming time their may be polished or replaced
[16:45] <_MMA_> swalko: What you said is already the plan. And I believe already mentioned on the wiki. I know Ive said it in emails. If not on the wiki I will post it there as well.
[16:46] <swalko> _MMA_: you are author od currently done icons?
[16:46] <swalko> _MMA_: of
[16:47] <_MMA_> The ones that use pieces of Oxygen I have done. The rest have been done by Sebastien.
[16:48] <swalko> _MMA_: it will be good if will be posted table with missing icons or urgently need icons
[16:49] <swalko> _MMA_: at example icon for desktop
[16:49] <_MMA_> swalko: Anything that doesn't have a image in the /Icons section of the wiki needs done.
[16:49] <swalko> _MMA_: almost everything :)
[16:49] <_MMA_> And as we're on no time-table, nothing is "urgent"
[16:50] <swalko> _MMA_: and what about small icon sizes?
[16:50] <_MMA_> What about them?
[16:50] <swalko> _MMA_: at example tray icons
[16:51] <swalko> _MMA_: it will not be better if these icons will be done in black/white version too?
[16:51] <_MMA_> If you want to work on one that isn't listed in the list (the list is mostly based off the FreeDesktop spec) go right ahead.
[16:51] <_MMA_> swalko: As the tech for the "tray only" icons aren't final yet, they aren't a focus.
[16:52] <_MMA_> If you want to keep up with what's going on there and work on those icons that would be great.
[16:52] <swalko> _MMA_: i may try to do some an we see if they will be usable
[16:53] <_MMA_> ok
[16:54] <_MMA_> swalko: As of now, the set mostly focuses on the icons needed for the FreeDesktop spec. Obviously ones will be needed outside of that and we will work on them or add them as they come.
[16:55] <swalko> _MMA_: may you post link to freedesktop specs?
[16:56] <_MMA_> It is linked to in the wiki. :) Should be on the front page. ;)
[16:56] <swalko> _MMA_: ok thanks
[16:57] <_MMA_> I really worked hard to add all the info needed for people to get involved. There will always be little things to add but for the most part the info there should cover the majority of the questions one would have.
[17:01] <_MMA_> swalko: I'm sorry. The link is at the top of the pages for the sections of the icons.
[17:01] <SealV> morning all
[17:01] <_MMA_> I'll add a not to the frontpage in a min.
[17:01]  * _MMA_ waves.
[17:01] <_MMA_> S/NOT/NOTE
[17:01] <_MMA_> (damn caps lock)
[17:03] <SealV> I have my casp lock reconfiged to a meta key under windows, no idea how to do that in linux
[17:05] <SealV> bloody hell, MMA is there any reason why the start here icon even needs to be 128 pix?
[17:06] <SealV> I mean it is essentially only going to be used on panels, right?
[17:07] <_MMA_> SealV: For use in other places, yeah. You know, that post to the list about the Brazian theme or something. The one with the attached screenshots. That had a nice looking logo in it. I think something like that would do. It was subtle but nice.
[17:07] <_MMA_> I'll post a link in a min if you don't know what I'm talking about.
[17:07] <_MMA_> (trying to wrap up some things around the house)
[17:09] <SealV> link me when you get the chance :)
[17:10] <_MMA_> k
[17:10] <SealV> found it
[17:10] <_MMA_> cool
[17:10] <_MMA_> I think it was the one used on the GDM.


[13:40] <jcastro> alanbell, pici, topyli or funkyhat: I would like to consolidate #ubuntu-cloud into #ubuntu-server
[14:06] <Tm_T> hu, there was -cloud?
[14:15] <jcastro> yeah
[14:15] <jcastro> no one really uses it
[18:08] <Pici> jcastro: I'll go ahead and update the channel modes, change the topic and set it moderated. Then we can just wait for the rest of the folks there to leave, as I'm not keen on kicking 60 people out.
[18:09] <jcastro> rock and roll, thanks!
[19:26] <Sidewinder> Ops feelin' their oats, today?
[19:45] <Myrtti> mmm?


 @matkoniecz [Any idea what is the proper way to run script directly after booting system? … ht …], Check cron
[09:18] <Kelar> i do apt-get install and see this msg
[09:18] <Kelar> Starting pkgProblemResolver with broken count: 0
[09:18] <Kelar> is pkgproblemsolver a new tool
[09:18] -Kelar:#lubuntu- ?
[10:22] <rvbbut> hey there.
[10:23] <rvbbut> i just want to know what is lubuntu's system requirements
[10:23] <rvbbut> :] :] :]
 "The developers also decided to stop recommending minimum system requirements after the 18.04 LTS release." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubuntu
 Apparently as a part of "transition" and abandoning Lubuntu focus on supporting old computers ( https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/ )
 @HMollerCl [Check cron], Welp, this worked. I planned to write how I tried it already but why documenting what I did I found what I was doing wrong. Thanks!
 shebang was wrong
 @matkoniecz ["The developers also decided to stop recommending minimum system requirements af …], We are still debating what is considered minimum. While a 64bit with 512RAM will launch, there is not much you can do wit it. Web pages consumes a lot of RAM now.
 Even 2GB RAM is barely usable for web browsing, and I would blame websites not Lubuntu for that.
 @HMollerCl [We are still debating what is considered minimum. While a 64bit with 512RAM will …], Even 2GB RAM is barely usable for web browsing, and I would blame websites not Lubuntu for that.
[12:39] <LimeOn> 2GB seems pretty decent for web browsing
[12:40] <LimeOn> maybe online videos consumes a lot of ram


[03:07] <honki> http://www.flickr.com/photos/honki/4564075703/
[03:07] <honki> rock_n_ubuntu
[07:31] <knome> lol
[09:13] <thorwil> iainfarrell: morning! i showed a similar screenshot to kwwii, but did not talk about the color issue with him, otherwise
[09:14] <thorwil> vish: if you open one of the for-web SVGs of the ubuntu logo, does it look much more red than what you see in the guidelines pdf, too?
[09:16] <vish> thorwil: what screenshot?
[09:17] <thorwil> vish: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/7e44f4cb5d9bf6be8d062b2eef5c7931
[09:18] <thorwil> i'd like to have confirmation that the same happens on other systems, as i'm still on karmic, but with a custom inkscape build
[09:18]  * vish checking
[09:21] <vish> thorwil: where is the cof_orange_hex_svg.pdf?  did you generate that?
[09:21] <vish> using inkscape or in the files?
[09:21] <thorwil> vish: yes, pdf export of cof_orange_hex_svg
[09:22] <thorwil> vish: but if it's the same on your system, it doesn't matter if you llok at it in inkscape or export to png or pdf, that color stays the same
[09:22] <vish> thorwil: the colors are different
[09:23] <thorwil> vish: does it match the colors in my screenshot?
[09:23] <vish>  just a sec
[09:25] <knome> iainfarrell, sent you a reply
[09:25] <iainfarrell> hey knome
[09:25] <iainfarrell> cool!
[09:25] <iainfarrell> We're in Brussels for the next two weeks preparing for UDS
[09:26] <knome> okay. :) i never got that invite by the way ;]
[09:41] <vish> thorwil: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-2.png
[09:42] <vish> the exported pdf and the svg are the same , but the eps file is a bit different
[09:43] <vish> and the guidelines are the same color as your screenshot
[09:43] <thorwil> vish: thanks
[09:45] <thorwil> iainfarrell: so it's not an oddity on my system. the EPS on vish's screenshots has #e72100 instead of #dd3a21
[09:45] <vish> and the branding ones are totally different
[09:48] <thorwil> iainfarrell: you could try if using inkscape on a mac makes a difference, but you might have to investigate how the assets and guidelines have been created, regarding platform, color profiles and software
[09:48] <thorwil> iainfarrell: though it does look like the hex color values are quite simply just wrong
[09:49] <thorwil> doubly so for the EPS
[09:50] <vish> why is the guidelines having the totally wrong colors ? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-3.png
[09:50] <iainfarrell> vish and thorwil: We'll need to investigate why this is happening because these colours are identical on other platforms
[09:51] <vish> iainfarrell: well , I'm on Lucid *Ubuntu* , not sure which platforms they were tested ;)
[09:51] <thorwil> vish: on OS X and Win 7, of course ;)
[09:52] <iainfarrell> thorwil: I've not looked on Windows :)
[09:52] <iainfarrell> vish and thorwil: I need to understand more about how colour spaces work on Linux
[09:52] <iainfarrell> because I think that's what's causing this issue
[09:53] <thorwil> iainfarrell: perhaps it's some color management on the mac with adobe tools, vs no color management at all on ubuntu?
[09:53]  * vish ... leaves this to thorwil , already bugged kwwii enough for another issue ;p
[09:54] <thorwil> vish: heh, this is all i have to say about, enough bugging :)
[09:55] <iainfarrell> thorwil and vish - have you come across similar issues elsewhere?
[09:56] <thorwil> iainfarrell: no
[09:57] <thorwil> kwwii: would you mind if i edit brand_of_thumbs.png to close the shadows/frames on the top of the pages? they all look cut off, currently
[09:57] <vish> iainfarrell: well , the one i mentioned to kwwii was the ubuntu branding files being named as *K*ubuntu > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-Properties.png  and kwwii is already on it
[09:58] <kwwii> thorwil: sure, go ahead
[09:58] <vish> iainfarrell: btw , you guys should scrub the metadata from the files ;)  we dont want other to know we depend on mac/adobe ;)
[09:59] <iainfarrell> vish - yeah kwwii and I are talking about this already
[09:59] <iainfarrell> regarding the colours issue
[10:00] <iainfarrell> I'm going to start doing some digging on this and find out why it's happening
[10:00] <iainfarrell> I think I know why and I'm not sure there's much we can do about it
[10:00] <iainfarrell> in the short term at least
[10:01] <iainfarrell> the pdf guide is the correct orange
[10:01] <iainfarrell> why the other files are opening like that I think is to do with how the application treats different files rather than how  the colour is set in the file
[10:01] <thorwil> iainfarrell: well, simply sampling the orange from the pdf would yield better results on ubuntu
[10:01] <kwwii> thorwil: the files with the hex colors are correct thought
[10:02] <kwwii> thorwil: ie, when I open them they show the correct colours
[10:02] <kwwii> thorwil: note that the pantone and cmyk will not appear to be the same anyway as they are slightly different values
[10:02] <iainfarrell> the hex values might be right but the way they are rendering on your screen isn't
[10:02] <kwwii> ie one cannot simply reduce cmyk into hex
[10:02] <vish>  well , not really an issue for me.. :)  but its the sort of stuff the design team gets poked about like > http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/d0od/~3/V5T-2y66sVE/ubuntu-1004-press-releases-enter-wild.html
[10:03] <iainfarrell> look at the orange we're using on Ubuntu.com and then look at the way that EPS has opened
[10:03] <iainfarrell> it's clearly wrong
[10:03] <kwwii> which EPS?
[10:03] <kwwii> none of the colour managed ones will open correctly on linux
[10:03] <kwwii> that I get
[10:03] <iainfarrell> hey kwwii the one in T's screenshot
[10:04] <thorwil> kwwii: i had 3 years vocational education that included printing technology. i think i understand pantone and cmyk and the problems with converting to rgb values quite well ;)
[10:05] <iainfarrell> thorwil: so do you know what's happening here then? :)
[10:06] <thorwil> iainfarrell: i can only guess that it is color management related
[10:07] <kwwii> thorwil: I can confirm that the orange in the hex files is the correct value
[10:07] <kwwii> thorwil: look at the palette value for the orange and then open the file with gimp and pick the color
[10:07] <thorwil> kwwii: what about the difference between the SVGs and the EPS?
[10:07] <kwwii> thorwil: so it seems the pdf is the incorrect orange
[10:07] <iainfarrell> thorwil and kwwii am I right that there is no system wide management in Linux?
[10:08] <kwwii> iainfarrell: there is but it is very rudimen tary
[10:09] <kwwii> thorwil: just checked the svgs and the colours are simply wrong
[10:09] <iainfarrell> kwwii: I see, are there projects out there to make it better?
[10:09] <thorwil> kwwii: ah, so it should be a reddish orange, not a medium orange!?
[10:09] <kwwii> thorwil: right dd4814
[10:09] <kwwii> or so
[10:10] <vish> iainfarrell: is that the new font used in the branding guidelines pdf?  [or atleast the incomplete one?]
[10:10] <iainfarrell> vish yes it is
[10:11] <thorwil> iainfarrell: then i bet the toll that generated the pdf applied some color conversion according to some inappropriate profile
[10:11] <thorwil> tool, even
[10:11] <vish> neat ..
[10:12] <iainfarrell> vish thanks :) it's coming on very well
[10:12] <thorwil> for a possible revision of the guidelines, the line-spacing should be increased. maybe tracking, too
[10:14] <kwwii> I take back my comment that the SVGs are wrong
[10:14] <kwwii> whew :-)
[10:20] <thorwil> ok, turned http://www.foopics.com/showfull/04037ab3ef5a93392c273ea4d3a559d9 into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=brand_of_thumbs.png
[10:36] <kwwii> cool
[11:36] <ktogias> hello. I am refreshing the style of the web site of greek loco team and I would like to add some banner usiing the font of the new logo. Is that font available for download? Where can I find it?
[11:36] <kwwii> ktogias: the new font is not available yet
[11:38] <ktogias> hm... I would like to make a banner for 10.04 release like the one apearing at ubuntu.com top "It's time for a change ..." . Do you have in mind any other font that will match nicely with th new ubuntu logo?
[11:39] <kwwii> ktogias: to be honest, I do not
[11:39] <kwwii> sorry
[11:39] <kwwii> maybe someone here would like to help?
[11:39] <kwwii> thorwil, anyone?
[11:40] <thorwil> ktogias: 2 fonts have been mentioned that seem to be similar, but both commercial
[11:41] <ktogias> If commercial then useless (for me at least...)
[11:42] <ktogias> Any clue on when the logo font will be available?
[11:42] <kwwii> ktogias: no, sorry
[11:43] <thorwil> ktogias: Gillius might be reasonable next to the new logo-type
[11:44] <thorwil> ttf-adf-gillius
[11:46] <ktogias> thanks thorwil . I'll give it a try.
[11:47] <thorwil> 0.o http://www.goodshowsir.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/camelot3.jpg
[11:49] <kwwii> now that looks good
[11:54] <knome> iainfarrell, sent you mail
[12:18] <directhex> oh, wow, there IS a new gdm screen. bug 532659 was keeping it a secret
[12:19] <kwwii> sounds like there were issues with people updating
[12:26] <directhex> i was waiting for one of those to start existing before making a grub2 theme. i wonder how long i've been wasting time
[12:41] <kwwii> directhex: since about beta1 or 2
[14:03] <toxz> i want to paint for ubuntu a picture
[14:05] <islington> anyone in here do plasma themeing?
[14:07] <kwwii> islington: yes, it is very simple
[14:08] <islington> kwwii: not when the documentation is old and incomplete; do you know what frame.svgz is themeing?
[14:08] <kwwii> not off hand
[14:08] <kwwii> I would assume a frame around something though :p
[14:08] <kwwii> islington: when I do not know what something does, I make it bright red and check
[14:09] <islington> mmm that is essentially what I did, made it white when my theme is dark, but I dont see any difference :(
[14:10] <kwwii> you should ask pinheiro in #oxygen
[14:10] <islington> k thanks
[14:30] <kwwii> wow, I found something we should update
[14:30] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage
[17:31] <ktogias> thorwil, everybody: Just finished with the installation and translation of 10.04 banner to ubuntu-gr LoCo team site. Isn't it beautiful?: http://www.ubuntu-gr.org/ ... Thanks a lot for your help!
[17:54] <thorwil> iainfarrell: size guidelines for logo use should include pixel sizes, perhaps.
[20:38] <kwwii> well, the week is over for me and I have a two week trip on Sunday
[20:54] <kwwii> hey DanRabbit_
[20:54] <kwwii> how's things?