[02:07] <Bashing-om> UWN: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/ubuntu-core-desktop-delayed // Holding these - seen anything official about this ?
[02:29] <guiverc> Bashing-om, No (not that I recall anyway), but I'm not surprised as I expected its release between 24.04's release & that of Ubuntu Core 24 (which is always a few months later anyway)
[02:30] <guiverc> (ie.  I didn't expect Canonical devs to worry as long as its released before or AT the release of Ubuntu Core.. of course they'll be disappointed its not ready with 24.04 release, given that's when the media is watching most)
[02:32] <guiverc> Bashing-om, this maybe closest to official - https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-desktop-24-04-lts-roadmap-highlights/41032/50
[02:35] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Reluctant to publish this without official word - also waiting on some FOSDEM 2024 results before adding stuff to the Newsletter.
[02:36] <guiverc> it's still early so I don't see a rush; you can leave in <~-- comment --> form as reminder..   I don't see a reason to not include; I just didn't expect release with 24.04  (thus not news to me)
[02:39] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Ho-kay - sounds like a plan to me :D
[02:48] <Bashing-om> guiverc: On Discourse we now have a notification of "edit conflict" when others are also in :) tsimonq2 present there also :D
[02:48] <guiverc> Yippee !!!! on edit conflict... that is GREAT news...
[02:49] <guiverc> (we can work around it... I check post-edit for anything wrong... but will make it safer with warning of conflict)
[02:49] <guiverc> we can/we could ^
[02:49] <tsimonq2> Sorry about that. Swooped in then out.
[02:49] <Eickmeyer> Under no circumstances should you post that OMG ubuntu article about Kubuntu not shipping Plasma 6. 1) It's low-quality clickbait, and 2) It paints me in a bad light.
[02:50] <tsimonq2> Jinx. :)
[02:51] <tsimonq2> 9to5Linux, solid choice the vast majority of the time. OMG! Ubuntu!, very rarely of any quality. Phoronix is about in the middle.
[02:51] <tsimonq2> We should (read: should, not telling you what to do, not my final call) discontinue linking to OMG! Ubuntu! altogether.
[02:51] <Eickmeyer> ^ THis, tbh
[02:52] <tsimonq2> Sorry again about the edit conflicts.
[02:53]  * guiverc only notes Plasma in 'in.this.issue' which is rough & can be inaccurate this early
[02:53] <Bashing-om> Eickmeyer: noted - will pull the article // and place OMG on "due dilegence" listing.
[02:53] <Eickmeyer> As I've said before, OMG Ubuntu isn't news, it's just a blog.
[02:53] <Eickmeyer> A low-quality clickbait one at that.
[02:54] <tsimonq2> I share the same opinion.
[02:54] <tsimonq2> Anyway, not worried about it, in your hands now, UWN Team. :)
[03:01]  * guiverc notes for the record, I see little objectional with https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/02/kubuntu-24-04-wont-use-kde-plasma-6  (only YUK being to "Not quite.")  but I don't see it as 'news' anyway  (admission @ top says 'confirmation')
[03:03] <tsimonq2> Well, Erich is quoted near the top and he's unhappy it's painted him in a bad light. This opinion has snowballed, this was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
[03:03] <tsimonq2> Sorry for all the stress.
[03:04] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: Then you're giving too much benefit of the doubt. Without complete context, my quote looks a little rude. Inside the discourse post it's from, there's a smiley face that's omitted which makes me much friendlier. Furthermore, he didn't ask for permission before quoting me and took it out of context.
[03:07] <guiverc> yeah I didn't follow to check context..  Your objection is enough to swap me anyway Eickmeyer
[03:10] <Eickmeyer> 👍
[08:45] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::security:: Episode 218 @ https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/episode-218/
[11:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::portugal:: E285 Bruxelas Nas Couves @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/e285/
[15:33] <krytarik> I got a German article about the same thing if that'd help in any way.. XD
[15:58] <krytarik> Hilariously enough, in the latter they didn't spot the "d0od" at the end of the Discourse link they've clearly copied from the OMG Ubuntu post. XD
[16:05] <Eickmeyer> Gotta love it when people can't even come up with original news and have to copy from someone else.
[19:46] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Podcast Ubuntu Portugal: E285 Bruxelas Nas Couves @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/e285/


[02:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:19] <ducasse> good morning
[06:18] <TJ-> g'morning  ... what channels am I usually in!? managed to lose the auto-saved list!
[07:23] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: #difficult-cases
[07:25] <TJ-> :P
[09:45] <marcoagpinto> The cola demon!!!
[13:24] <marcoagpinto> guys?! This is the error I get with VirtualBox 6.1.6:
[13:24] <marcoagpinto> [14:22] <marcoagpinto> MichalN: https://i.imgur.com/lh3CyxC.png
[13:24] <sarnold> TJ-: here's what I've got from my scrollback's join messages: #canonical-sysadmin #ubuntu #ubuntu-devel #ubuntu-discuss #ubuntu-hardened #ubuntu-kernel #ubuntu-release #ubuntu-server
[13:24] <lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: report problem
[13:25] <marcoagpinto> I clicked on report yesterday
[13:25] <marcoagpinto> :)
[13:32] <marcoagpinto> the helper in the vbox channel said it is an Ubuntu bug not a vbox issue
[13:32] <marcoagpinto> :)
[13:35] <sarnold> marcoagpinto: somewhere in the control panel should be a button to help you find your error reports on https://errors.ubuntu.com/ -- can you find that and paste the link?
[13:37] <marcoagpinto> sarnold: let me run the VM again
[13:39] <marcoagpinto> sarnold: Where is the control panel? settings?
[13:44] <sarnold> marcoagpinto: yeah, that sounds about right
[13:44] <marcoagpinto> but, where do I click inside it?
[13:44] <marcoagpinto> I see no "errors something"
[13:49] <sarnold> marcoagpinto: try this: "You can find the errors your computer has reported to the error tracker via System Settings, Security & Privacy, Diagnostics, Show Previous Reports. "
[13:49] <sarnold> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker
[13:49] <marcoagpinto> let me try
[13:54] <marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[13:55] <marcoagpinto> there is no diagnostics
[13:55] <marcoagpinto> and "Security & Privacy" only exists "Privacy"
[13:55] <marcoagpinto> :(
[13:56] <marcoagpinto> I mean there is no "diagnostics" button
[14:32] <TJ-> sarnold: thanks - missed the canonical :)
[17:49] <oerheks> hard to see, is ubuntu affected?
[17:49] <oerheks> https://www.openssl.org/news/vulnerabilities.html#y2020  ( Fixed in OpenSSL 1.1.1g (git commit) (Affected 1.1.1d-1.1.1f)
[17:59] <sarnold> yes, fixes coming
[18:00] <daftykins> yay for sarnold
[18:01] <sarnold> not me, yay for mdeslaur, the guy is a machine :)
[18:01] <daftykins> ah ha, well you are a handy source for update confirmation nonetheless
[18:01]  * daftykins slides over a beverage of your choice
[18:11] <sarnold> oh sweeeeet an old rasputin how'd you know? :)
[18:11] <daftykins> xD
[18:17] <daftykins> the Russian Queen told me
[18:20] <sarnold> very kind of her :)
[18:20] <sarnold> spasibo!
[18:43] <marcoagpinto> back!!!!
[18:43] <marcoagpinto> >:)
[18:44] <marcoagpinto> sarnold: the wiki you told me is just drawings
[18:44] <marcoagpinto> maybe it is a feature proposal?
[18:44] <sarnold> marcoagpinto: but the first paragraph describes an actual thing that used to exist in previous releases, and should still exist in some form in new releases
[18:46] <marcoagpinto> sarnold: On Friday I will install 20.04 :)
[21:17] <marcoagpinto> Gute Nacht


[00:42] <Tweaky> is it a good idea or a bad idea to sudo update-manager -d
[00:49] <yofel> Tweaky: not worse than dist-upgrading, as long as you remember natty is still pre-alpha
[00:50] <Tweaky> yofel: ok thanks
[01:27] <TerminX> I don't have time to file a bug, but I just noticed gnome-about-me requires the evolution-data-server package and gnome-control-center doesn't depend on it
[02:13] <ircrob> can play wow 800x600 on winxp with x4500 GM915 on ubuntu get lines blur flicker
[07:24] <MTecknology> so uh.. firefox got weird
[08:39] <hellyeah> hey
[08:39] <hellyeah> soomeone there
[09:56] <daurn> is there a way to install gobject-introspection on my maverick box?
[10:34] <juk> when i ctrl click links in terminal, it freezes
[10:37] <juk> anyone experienced same thing
[10:50] <coz_> hey guys ...someone mentioned that dist-upgrade is depreciated????
[10:56] <G_A_C> it always has been in Ubuntu AFAIK, "do-release-upgrade" is the approved way
[10:58] <coz_> G_A_C,   but that upgrades releases
[10:58] <coz_> not the current system
[10:58] <G_A_C> that's what dist-update does in debian
[10:58] <coz_> no
[10:58] <G_A_C> you change your repos to point to the newer release, and run dist-upgrade to move forward
[10:58] <coz_> apt-get upgrade will upgrade the package versions on your system when a newer version is available. It still does dependency checking and will skip upgrading a package in the case of a conflict.
[10:59] <coz_> apt-get dist-upgrade will be able to remove packages in favor of other, higher priority packages. Both use the package manager so they both use package dependencies.
[10:59] <coz_> G_A_C,   way different than a release upgrade
[11:00] <coz_> but dist-upgrade has nothing to do with release upgrade
[11:00] <G_A_C> well not really. as i see it, an "upgrade" is fine for daily use, you get new versions of packages which you already have, nothing is removed, whereas a "dist-upgrade" can handle removal of packages which would only happen between releases (i.e. debian/ubuntu wouldn't pull a package out which had shipped with any given release, just remove it from the next one and let it die out that way)
[11:01] <G_A_C> so I still maintain that on ubuntu "apt-get upgrade" is fine for day to day use, and use "do-release-upgrade" to move between releases
[11:01] <coz_> G_A_C,   no   you are not reading that correctly...... a dist-upgrade will deal with higher priority packages while removeing older ones
[11:02] <coz_> it has nothing to do with releases
[11:02] <G_A_C> it removes packages in favour of higher priority ones (i.e. replacement of one package with another); can you explain a situation where that might happen within any given release? cos I can't think of one
[11:02] <coz_> sure
[11:03] <coz_> especially when running pre release  or just released  ubuntu... new packages are  available during the pre release
[11:03] <jpds> It's not for "higher priority packages".
[11:03] <coz_> dist-upgrade?
[11:04] <jpds> It will install new, perviously uninstalled, packages where the upgrades require them.
[11:04] <jpds> ie. new kernel number version.
[11:04] <coz_> this is also true
[11:05] <G_A_C> i have to admit, I don't understand what you're saying about new packages being available during the pre-release
[11:05] <jpds> G_A_C: pre-release?
[11:05] <G_A_C> i ran pre-release maverick for a while, and apt-get upgrade (well, aptitude upgrade) kept me up to date just fine
[11:05] <G_A_C> no need for dist-upgrade/full-upgrade
[11:06] <jpds> Yeah, but when new kernels are available, and the linux-image-generic package pulls them in, you need to run a dist-upgrade to make apt accept the new kernel packages.
[11:06] <coz_> G_A_C,   I have been using  sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade  most certainly for pre releases  since nearly day one
[11:07] <coz_> jpds,  I would consider that higher priority package  :)
[11:08] <G_A_C> yeah, but saying you have been using it doesn't necessarily make it the right command to run
[11:08] <G_A_C> it works, but is it really doing anything that apt-get upgrade wouldn't?
[11:09] <coz_> G_A_C,  well I believe it is correct  I was just actually trying to correct someone in #ubuntu who felt that dist-upgrade was depreciated for  do-release-upgrade
[11:10] <G_A_C> for the purposes of release upgrading, it is, and the command itself "dist-upgrade" implies that that's the original purpose
[11:10] <coz_> G_A_C,   no  dist-ugrade ...although it appears to refer to a new release upgrde  it doesnt and as I recall never did
[11:10] <jpds> Look at man aptitude's safe-upgrade/full-upgrade .
[11:11] <Trewas> G_A_C: aptitude started calling them safe-upgrade (instead of upgrade) and full-upgrade (for dist-upgrade), so that that kind of misunderstandings would go away
[11:11] <Trewas> apparently it did not help as apt-get was not changed :)
[11:11] <coz_> ah
[11:11] <coz_> Trewas,  so now you can do  sudo apt-get sage-upgrade && sudo apt-get full-upgrade  ??
[11:12] <coz_> safe
[11:12] <jpds> coz_: No.
[11:12] <G_A_C> yeah, I know aptitude has different options, I assumed that was because aptitude actually did those things slightly differently, if it was a change in apt itself then I'm surprised to not see it replicated in apt-get
[11:12] <coz_> jpds,  esplain to me :)
[11:12] <jpds> coz_: The change was in aptitude.
[11:12] <coz_> ah ok
[11:12] <coz_> understood
[11:13] <Trewas> and the change in aptitude is only in their names, not their functionality... upgrade only upgrades packages, dist-upgrade also installs new ones (and sometimes removes old ones) when dependencies require that
[11:13] <coz_> yes
[11:13] <coz_> Trewas,  thank you :)
[11:13] <Trewas> so if someone runs natty now, just using apt-get upgrade will get them nowhere near the final natty
[11:38] <juk> what happens to terminal when i click link it hangs, because of firefox?
[11:41] <juk> and my x-www-browser is epiphany
[11:47] <juk> anyone
[11:48] <coz_> juk,   this I dont know....stick around though...someone will answer :)
[11:48] <Cork> juk: clicking doesn't do anything for me, it only shows the underline
[11:49] <Cork> (right click does though)
[11:50] <gnomefreak> juk: epiphany is your default browser but firefox opens as default?
[11:50] <gnomefreak> as for gnome-term you have to right click a link in term (example: IRSSI"
[11:50] <gnomefreak> )
[11:52] <gnomefreak> during the gnome transition your default browser will be firefox atm. example: you set chromium as default it will use firefox as default)
[11:52] <gnomefreak> im havaing issues with the damn  () keys
[11:54] <gnomefreak> i found grub cleaned itself up for me and left me only one kernel, i try to keep 2 in there. there was like 5 of them
[11:56] <gnomefreak> seems xfce guys have pushed a bunch of updates
[12:00] <juk> coz_: :)
[12:00] <juk> Cork: i meant ctrl + click
[12:00] <juk> gnomefreak: exactly
[12:01] <juk> or right click and choosing from menu open link same thing
[12:02] <gnomefreak> juk: its a known issue . gnome is having a major overhaul for 11.04 with the gnome3, it will get fixed as soon as possible but gnome upgrade is having effects on a few things
[12:03] <gnomefreak> as for terminal having to open it that way is normal (has been since ive been around0
[12:03] <juk> gnomefreak: gnome upgrade?
[12:03] <gnomefreak> juk: we are upgrading to gnome 3
[12:03] <juk> gnomefreak: wow
[12:03] <juk> gnomefreak: yes, but hangs is weird
[12:04] <gnomefreak> juk: yeah im not sure why it is hanging except that firefox4 is a bit slow since it was overhauled
[12:04]  * gnomefreak still likes the plugin veiwer in firefox4
[12:06] <juk> gnomefreak: firefox fires up around 2secs, but hang lasting for 10!
[12:08] <gnomefreak> juk: not sure than. since i stopped packaging mozilla apps and maintaing them i would have to ask our firefox guys. please file a bug if it happens for everything
[12:08]  * juk thought gnome incapable of changes
[12:09] <gnomefreak> when you see gnome 3 you will not think that
[12:09] <juk> gnomefreak: ok
[12:10] <juk> gnomefreak: i can't get to default desktop though, it frozen, using classic
[12:11] <gnomefreak> juk: is it set to use that one in GDM screen (not really sure what you mean by classic)
[12:12] <juk> gnomefreak: i mean at login screen, i choose from drop down, classic thing appeard in natty
[12:12] <juk> gnomefreak: frozen one with the trashbar
[12:13] <gnomefreak> juk: sorry, i dont use the GDM screen unless i log in first that logout and loginto a different one
[12:14] <gnomefreak> juk: it seems like alot of things are slow for you, not sure if it isyour system or if they are bugs. one thing you can try is to disable compiz
[12:14] <juk> gnomefreak: any idea how to trace bug?
[12:14] <gnomefreak> juk: what do you mean trace it?
[12:15] <gnomefreak> create a back trace?
[12:15] <juk> gnomefreak: find a bug
[12:17] <gnomefreak> oh finding bugs you have to do or someone else can but if you file a bug using ubuntu-bug packagename  it will search and find a duplicate and mark it as a duplicate assuming it finds one. or you can search by package bugs, filing it is easiest and shortest
[12:17] <gnomefreak> ive been up all night so please forgive my typos
[12:17] <juk> gnomefreak: ok
[12:18] <gnomefreak> be back need a smoke
[12:19] <juk> i try to disable compiz
[12:20] <juk> double click on html files brings up chromium though :p
[12:24] <juk> gnomefreak: what would be packagename to report
[12:24] <juk> gnome-desktop
[12:25] <gnomefreak> juk: for the classic view? or things that are slow?
[12:26]  * gnomefreak a damn moron :(
[12:28]  * gnomefreak paused the radio using remote but i still had to walk right by it
[12:30] <juk> gnomefreak: for clicking hangs
[12:30] <gnomefreak> juk: clicking what exactly
[12:30] <juk> gnomefreak: it's not slow it gets unresponsive
[12:31] <juk> gnomefreak: ok, nevermind
[12:31] <gnomefreak> top is a good tool to use to see what is hogging all the memory or cpu
[12:31]  * gnomefreak still cant find the GUI one yet
[12:33] <gnomefreak> if disabling compiz helps than i would file a bug on compiz if pretty much everything becaoms unreponsive
[12:33] <gnomefreak> becomes
[13:17] <gnomefreak> mvo: if you are around, please tell me ther eis no chance that software-center is going to replace Synaptic
[13:18] <gnomefreak> s/ther eis/there is
[13:30] <red2kic> gnomefreak: I think that was the plan. They're going to build synaptic or something of a similar into software-center.
[13:32] <red2kic> As for GUI, I presume you want System --> Admin --> System Monitor
[13:37] <gnomefreak> i hate software-center search. its useless search and uses a tree results, half the time what i am searching for they dont give me
[13:45] <gnomefreak> for some reason i remember gtop being around but you are corrent sys monitor works
[14:05]  * hallyn_ weeps for his lost firefox extensions
[14:11] <wrst> has anyone else had trouble with isntalling from cd/usb on the last couple of daily builds?
[14:15] <gnomefreak> the cd image is too big atm
[14:16] <gnomefreak> should work on USB stick but i havent tried. make sure the MD5SUM is correct than burn slowest speed. thise and the main problems people run into
[14:19] <wrst> gnomefreak: no problem on that end i get it installed and have either had it not to boot and on the image from friday had grub issues but that may have been from me dual booting with a 10.10 install
[14:20] <wrst> i will try it in a VM here in the next day or so
[14:24]  * gnomefreak wonders if i can put the cd ISO onto a DVD and it install
[14:27] <Pici> gnomefreak: yes.
[14:27] <gnomefreak> Pici: thanks
[14:33] <wrst> gnomefreak: i had no prob with a dvd a while back
[14:36] <gnomefreak> wrst: putting a cd ISO onto a DVD disc?
[14:38] <wrst> yeah as long as you have a dvd drive it doesn't know the difference
[14:39] <gnomefreak> cool, thanks guys
[16:43] <hallyn_> hm, in the new natty desktop based on  unity - should nm-applet still be showing up in my panel?
[16:43]  * hallyn_ needs the applet to start a vpn
[16:44] <nperry> nm-applet hasn't been ported to work with unity panel yet
[16:44] <hallyn_> nmcli doesn't let me start a vpn right?
[16:45] <hallyn_> oh, maybe it can
[16:48] <nperry> hallyn_: It can iirc, never done it though :-)
[16:53] <nperry> Is autohide enabled yet..
[16:53] <nperry> Say fix has been released
[17:01] <IdleOne> just booted to 2.6.37-7 and all I get is a black screen, no prompt, can't switch to tty
[17:14] <hallyn_> nperry: yeah, the command seems to support it, but when i tried, (a) first i lost networking for about a minute, and then (b) when it came back, i wasn't on the vpn
[17:14] <hallyn_> i'll have to try again later when i have time to play with networking
[17:25] <nperry> Odd, just made a new vps on my server to play with natty server and base-files craps out on me
[17:28] <nperry> Fixed it, needed to install update-notifier-common
[17:34] <nperry> Now another odd thing, whois just showed up as untrusted package to be updated
[17:34] <nperry> But the changelog shows nothing has been changed since 18th Oct
[18:22] <Dink> What is the difference in the classic desktop and regular desktop on gdm ?
[18:22] <yofel> I think classic is old desktop and regular is unity, that's what I heard at least
[18:23] <Dink> Cool, thanks. Yeah I was looking to see if the "netbook" was still there and it seemed like it has disappeared. I then noticed the two options.
[19:03] <nperry> hallyn_: do the latest update, brings nm-applet
[19:07] <hallyn_> nperry: into unity?
[19:08] <hallyn_> awesome, thanks - I'm just using bluetile at the moment
[20:24] <Dink> Is the auto-hide slow to come back for anyone else ?
[20:27] <charlie-tca> what auto-hide?
[20:29] <Dink> The unity doc
[20:31] <Dink> Ahh nvm I need to put the mouse near the top left of the screen
[20:36] <charlie-tca> How do I make it hide?
[20:37] <charlie-tca> All I get it to do is sit there
[20:40] <Dink> charlie-tca, is the plugin enabled ?
[20:41] <charlie-tca> huh?
[20:41] <charlie-tca> I installed Ubuntu Natty. Have not been able to figure out how to work any of it
[20:41] <charlie-tca> Where do I find this plugin to enable it?
[20:41] <Dink> charlie-tca, guess not. Type 'ccsm' from cli. Then go "Uncategorized" and click on the Unity.
[20:42] <Dink> From there select the autohide. Then click back, close.
[20:42] <charlie-tca> just getting a terminal is a new lesson to lear
[20:42] <charlie-tca> heh, not installed
[20:43] <Dink> I actually had to install bunch of unity stuff to get it all to work
[20:43] <charlie-tca> Now I have to wait for the debug symbol packages to finish.
[20:43] <Dink> err not unity, compiz.
[20:43] <charlie-tca> Yeah, the docs are a lot lacking right now to make it all work
[20:44] <charlie-tca> But, on the bright side, it actually does install on both ati and nvidia
[20:44] <Dink> Intel here ;)
[20:45] <charlie-tca> hm, I still need to get an intel video system
[20:45] <charlie-tca> That is my next project.
[20:45] <Dink> Running on an aod250 netbook
[20:46] <Dink> Maverick aplha, beta etc went pretty well. Hoping the same with Natty
[20:47] <charlie-tca> natty is going to be rougher, I think.
[20:48] <charlie-tca> With the change to Unity and Compiz by default, and nvidia can't do 3d without the proprietary drivers
[20:48] <charlie-tca> Also, none of it works in VirtualBox
[20:48] <charlie-tca> so we fall back to gnome, I think
[20:49] <Dink> yeah I think that is correct
[21:07] <charlie-tca> Well, I got ccsm running, with a ton of errors in the terminal
[21:17] <charlie-tca> hmm, I think this is bad now. I lost all the panels, the ccsm window, and the dock
[21:17] <charlie-tca> and I broke the terminal
[21:18] <charlie-tca> yup. Bad now. will power that one off
[21:21] <charlie-tca> On a roll now. I broke Xubuntu Natty in a VBox install, too
[21:21] <charlie-tca> and my third Natty just complained about the screensaver
[23:21] <Andre_Gondim> how may I open terminal in natty?
[23:23] <charlie-tca> I been using Alt+F2, type in   gnome-terminal


[01:39] <ses__> I am getting “cannot communicate with server” issue when trying to install. Anyone knows how to resolve this issue? snapd seems to be running
[01:39] <ses__> sudo snap install --dangerous cwr_0.1_amd64.snap
[01:39] <ses__> error: cannot communicate with server: Post http://localhost/v2/snaps: dial unix /run/snapd.socket: connect: connection refused
[01:54] <thomi> ses__: what does "sudo systemctl status snapd.service" show?
[01:55] <ses__> thomi: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23855366/
[01:56] <thomi> https://wompwompwomp.com/ :(
[01:57] <thomi> hmmm
[01:57] <ses__> thomi: seems missing some text http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23855373/
[01:57] <thomi> in any case, "Active: inactive (dead) (Result: exit-code) since Mon 2017-01-23 17:31:11 PST; 24min ago" doesn't sound healthy
[01:58] <thomi> I'm trying to recall where the logs are
[02:01] <thomi> ses__: I don't suppose you recently ran snapd from source, and now are trying to run the system version?
[02:04] <ses__> thomi: no
[02:04] <ses__> thomi: I restarted the machine but still having the issue
[02:04] <thomi> hmmm -  I'm not a snapd dev, and I'm not sure how to help you any more. I've encountered a similar issue once myself after running snapd from source. Since that doesn't match the situation you're in, I'm not sure what else to suggest
[02:05] <thomi> This timezone isn't great for catching the snapd devs - you might want to consider mailing the snapcraft mailing list
[02:05] <ses__> thomi: thanks
[02:05] <ses__> thomi: what time are they usually here? Timezone?
[02:07] <thomi> I believe they're mostly Europe/US - vague, I realise, sorry :D
[02:24] <azubieta> Hello, I'm traying to setup a snap store based on https://github.com/noise/snapstore but i'm getting this error: error: cannot communicate with server: Post http://localhost/v2/snaps/foobar25: EOF when I try to install a package. Any ideas ?
[02:31] <noise][> azubieta_: there a few things to be aware of… first, there's a branch "metadata_tests" that I have yet to merge that updates support for the newer API endpoints
[02:32] <azubieta_> noise: oh! so i must use the code from that branch instead ?
[02:33] <noise][> however, even with that, newer snapd versions will not install local snaps from that store because they will lack the assertions to verify their authenticity. snapd allows you to snap install foo.snap —dangerous from a local file (sideloading) but does not allow it for a remote store install
[02:34] <noise][> we have started discussing how to allow for different trust chains so your own store deployment can be trusted but we don't have firm plans or timeline for that currently
[02:34] <azubieta_> noise: i would like to create a fulle functional, snapd compatible and opensource snap store, but according to what you say they don't allow it
[02:35] <azubieta_> noise: besides your work is there another opensource project that i could check ?
[02:36] <noise][> that's correct for right now - we will allow that but at the moment you would need to work around the assertions check by doing a download and install separately
[02:36] <azubieta_> ok
[02:38] <noise][> i.e nothing is stopping a solution that fetches the snap files from a server and then does "snap install <snap file> —dangerous", but we aim to support alternate stores directly in snapd
[08:05] <mup> PR snapd#2666 closed: interfaces: add ability to set system time zone to timeserver_control interface <Created by justincan> <Closed by justincan> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2666>
[08:05] <mup> PR snapd#2679 opened: Ubuntu/14.04 <Created by vosst> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2679>
[08:05] <mup> PR snapd#2585 closed: debian: move systemd files out of ./debian and into ./data/systemd <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2585>
[08:14] <zyga> good morning
[10:33] <niemeyer> Mornings
[10:38] <mup> PR snapd#2666 closed: interfaces: add ability to set system time zone to timeserver_control interface <Created by justincan> <Closed by justincan> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2666>
[10:38] <mup> PR snapd#2679 opened: Ubuntu/14.04 <Created by vosst> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2679>
[10:38] <mup> PR snapd#2585 closed: debian: move systemd files out of ./debian and into ./data/systemd <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2585>
[11:36] <om26er> Hi! What endpoint does snap info call ?
[12:32] <zyga> om26er: hey
[12:32] <zyga> om26er: I think that's a question for chipaca
[12:32] <zyga> om26er: I bet it also depends on the version of snapd as that area saw some development
[12:34] <om26er> zyga: Ok, will ask him, I needed information about available revisions of snaps from different channel, I could use grep for that but was looking if there was cleaner way I could achieve that
[12:37] <Chipaca> you called?
[12:38] <zyga> Chipaca: hey
[12:38] <zyga> 12:36 < om26er> Hi! What endpoint does snap info call ?
[12:38] <zyga> :-)
[12:38] <jibel> om26er, if you want info directly from the store you can always use something like : curl -s https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/snaps/details/<SNAP>?channel=<CHANNEL> -H 'X-Ubuntu-Series: 16' -H 'X-Ubuntu-Architecture: <ARCH>'
[12:38] <Chipaca> om26er, why do you ask?
[12:39] <om26er> Chipaca: I need to get available revisions for a snap in different channels
[12:40] <Chipaca> om26er, what for?
[12:41] <om26er> Chipaca: for CI purpose whenever something is merged in snapweb master, it gets pushed to edge channel automatically, I need to check if the newly pushed snap is published before trying to install it and run tests on top of that.
[12:41] <Chipaca> om26er, doesn't snapcraft already give you that info?
[12:42] <Chipaca> or are these things disconnected? the pushing and the checking i mean
[12:42] <Chipaca> om26er, the store is still working on exposing this information, so right now for 'snap info' i'm doing a separate (rather arcane) query just for that
[12:43] <Chipaca> om26er, hitting /v2/find?name=foo on snapd will get you the channel map, if that's what you need
[12:43] <om26er> Chipaca: I haven't looked at the output of snapcraft push, if it returns that result, we can probably use that as well.
[12:43] <Chipaca> yes, snapcraft push returns the channel map
[12:44] <Chipaca> from SCA
[12:44] <Chipaca> snapd talks to CPI
[12:44] <Chipaca> if you've already got snapcraft talking to SCA, that's better for this than having snapd talk to CPI for it
[12:45] <Chipaca> om26er, let me kknow if that's covered what you need please
[12:46] <Chipaca> om26er, please ACK so I can move on from this
[12:47] <om26er> Chipaca: yes, one of our script uploads to the store through snapcraft, so will get the output from there.
[12:47] <om26er> Chipaca: thanks for the info
[12:47] <Chipaca> np
[12:50] <om26er> jibel: yeah, just tried, that endpoint seems to work as well.
[13:57] <stokachu> so ive got my snap working on 16.04 with a systemd script, 14.04 is throwing this error at me though http://paste.ubuntu.com/23857838/
[13:57] <stokachu> do i have to define anything differently to get my systemd scripts working for 14.04 in a snap env?
[14:29] <mhall119> sergiusens: what's the proper way for a snapcraft test case to handle downloading a source file?
[14:43] <elopio> mhall119: unit test or integration test?
[15:00] <mhall119> elopio: integration I would think?
[15:04] <elopio> mhall119: for integration, you can probably put your source in people.ubuntu.com, write a real snapcraft.yaml that uses it, and call the pull command in the test.
[15:04] <mhall119> ok, cool, thanks elopio
[15:06] <elopio> mhall119: there is an ftp you can use as a guide in snapcraft/integration_tests/snaps
[15:06] <mhall119> elopio: just found that one
[15:12] <sergiusens> mhall119, for the unit test we create files on the fly
[16:51] <ryebot> Is there a way to prevent the snap name prefix from being added to a snap command? For example, I have a snap with the name "cni-loopback" and the command "loopback". The generated command is "cni-loopback.loopback". Is there a way to make the command name simply "loopback"? (without renaming my snap to loopback)
[16:53] <kyrofa> ryebot, support was recently added for command aliases
[16:53] <kyrofa> ryebot, which essentially allows you to promote prefixed commands into the non-prefixed domain
[16:53] <ryebot> kyrofa: excellent, I can google now, thank you :)
[16:54] <ogra_> ryebot, https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/blob/master/integration_tests/snaps/alias/snapcraft.yaml
[16:54] <ogra_> there is an example
[16:54] <kyrofa> ryebot, note that it requires snapd v2.20 or later
[16:54] <ryebot> ogra_ kyrofa: you guys rock, thanks for the help!
[16:55] <kyrofa> Any time :)
[16:56] <ogra_> (sometimes we also roll ;) )
[16:56] <kyrofa> When we eat too much
[16:56] <ogra_> haha
[16:57] <ryebot> XD
[17:01] <cachio> niemeyer, hey, I was trying to import spread tests in our grafana instance, and I was wondering if should be make spread to export test results in a well know format so it is easy to import from anywhere?
[17:01] <cachio> niemeyer, I can add a mp if you think it would be a good idea
[17:02] <niemeyer> cachio: Yeah, that sounds nice for sure
[17:02] <niemeyer> cachio: I suggest doing that as a small function which is run at the very end of the runner's life cycle
[17:03] <niemeyer> cachio: We already have a stats type and value at hand, so it should be super easy to just take that as an argument and generate a file in a well known format based on an option which the runner already has easy access to
[17:04] <cachio> niemeyer, ok, make sense, any preference with the output format?
[17:05] <niemeyer> cachio: Are there a few options which grafana can already interpret, or is that manual anyway?
[17:05] <cachio> niemeyer, the we run a tranlator to export it to grafana
[17:06] <cachio> we already have for pyunit for example
[17:07] <cachio> niemeyer, so I need then either to send from travis to grafana the resutls, or to import it from jenkins and send it to grafana
[17:08] <cachio> niemeyer, should be easier if we could send directly from travis to grafana which is a production service hosted in prodstack
[17:10] <niemeyer> cachio: If you need to manually parse and translate into grafana anyway, then I wouldn't worry about changing spread, at least I wouldn't begin there
[17:16] <cachio> niemeyer, I already have the translation from xunit pyunit into grafana schema
[17:16] <niemeyer> cachio: Yeah, xunit is probably a good choice
[17:17] <cachio> niemeyer, ok, i'll implement that
[17:24] <cachio> niemeyer, are you already sending spred results to any canonical service?
[17:24] <niemeyer> cachio: Nope..
[17:45] <AlbertA> ogra_: alecu: following up on the post to the snapcraft ML about GFX on pi3...
[17:46] <AlbertA> it seems the latest snapd is no longer autoconnecting the mir-libs interface? at least that's what I'm seeing with ogra_'s latest image from http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/snappy/all-snaps/daily/current/
[17:46] <ogra_> AlbertA, it does for me
[17:47] <ogra_> i have to manually connect the mir interface, but mir-libs is autoconnected
[17:47] <AlbertA> ogra_: alecu: mir-kiosk:mir-libs is autoconnected for you? and which snap version are you running?
[17:47] <AlbertA> snap list
[17:47] <AlbertA> Name        Version        Rev  Developer  Notes
[17:47] <AlbertA> core        16.04.1        970  canonical  -
[17:47] <AlbertA> mir-kiosk   0.1            20   canonical  -
[17:47] <AlbertA> mir-libs    0.1            20   canonical  -
[17:47] <AlbertA> pi2-kernel  4.4.0-1040-47  26   canonical  -
[17:47] <ogra_> ogra@localhost:~$ snap version
[17:47] <ogra_> snap    2.21+ppa215.5a5f1500-1
[17:47] <AlbertA> pi3         16.04-0.5      14   canonical  -
[17:48] <AlbertA> ogra_: oh but without --devmode ?
[17:48] <ogra_> yep ... worked for me (i dont have any mir stuff on the current image though)
[17:48] <ogra_> gimme a moment
[17:49] <alecu> I found it odd that devmode is gone after disabling and reenabling a snap
[17:49] <alecu> Finishing lunch, I'll try it in a few minutes
[17:49] <ogra_> might be a feature ... not sure ...
[17:50] <AlbertA> alecu: so in an any case, you can connect it manually - snap connect mir-kiosk:mir-libs mir-libs:mir-libs...then have to workaround a snap content i/f bug
[17:50] <ogra_> zyga, niemeyer ^^^ if you dis/enable a snap devmode gets dropped, is that wanted ?
[17:50] <ogra_> AlbertA, hmm, right, not connected here either now
[17:51] <AlbertA> do: snap disable mir-kiosk; sudo /usr/lib/snapd/snap-discard-ns mir-kiosk; snap enable mir-kiosk
[17:52] <AlbertA> ogra_: ok, I'll read the content i/f docs.. maybe something changed now
[17:52] <ogra_> well, the namespace stuff landed and the gadget grew support for gpio interfaces in core
[17:52] <ogra_> neither should have caused an issue though
[17:53] <AlbertA> ogra_: yeah well just thinking maybe I'm missing a field or something when specifying the content i/f plug now
[17:53] <ogra_> ogra@localhost:~$ snap interfaces|grep mir
[17:53] <ogra_> :network                  mir-kiosk-apps,pulseaudio
[17:53] <ogra_> :opengl                   mir-kiosk,mir-kiosk-apps,unity8-session
[17:53] <ogra_> mir-kiosk:mir             mir-kiosk-apps
[17:53] <ogra_> mir-libs:mir-libs         mir-kiosk-apps
[17:53] <ogra_> -                         mir-kiosk:mir-libs
[17:54] <ogra_> so mir-kiosk-apps autoconnect
[17:54] <ogra_> mir-kiosk doesnt
[17:54] <AlbertA> huh.... interesting.
[17:55] <AlbertA> I'll take a look at that, I did change the snapcraft.yaml last time
[17:55] <ogra_> ah
[17:56] <AlbertA> I'll revert that change and republish
[18:03] <Blu2> Will we ever see the promised snapped firefox?
[18:11] <kyrofa> Blu2, I expect so, but it's not being done by us
[18:13] <AlbertA> alecu: ogra_: ok a new revision of mir-kiosk was just pushed (rev 22 for armhf) that autoconnects fine
[18:13] <AlbertA> to mir-libs
[18:13] <alecu> Wonderful
[18:14] <Blu2> kyrofa, I know, I was hoping somebody knew something about it here :)
[18:15] <kyrofa> Blu2, not me anyway. That's all mozilla
[18:15] <ogra_> AlbertA, thanks !
[18:21] <Blu2> kyrofa, I thought they may be here in this chat
[18:21] <kyrofa> Blu2, fair enough, they may be :)
[18:28] <ses__> I am having issue communicating with the server during installation snapd seems to be running okay but have some issue. Anyone knows how to resolve this issue https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23859088/
[18:29] <ogra_> ses__, that doesnt seem to be running
[18:29] <ogra_> Jan 24 09:02:11 me-vm systemd[1]: snapd.service: Start request repeated too quickly.
[18:29] <ogra_> Jan 24 09:02:11 me-vm systemd[1]: Failed to start Snappy daemon.
[18:30] <ses__> ogra_: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23859105/
[18:32] <ogra_> well, systemd disagrees ... and you should also not see two snapd processes ... looks more like something hangs or respawns very fast
[18:32] <ogra_> if you do the ps -A again i bet you see new pids
[18:32] <ogra_> what are you running this on ? is that a native ubuntu install ?
[18:33] <ses__> I see the same pids
[18:33] <ses__> 16.04
[18:33] <ogra_> using a normal ubuntu kernel ? (uname -a ? )
[18:33] <ses__> apt install
[18:33] <ses__> Linux me-vm 4.4.0-59-generic #80-Ubuntu SMP Fri Jan 6 17:47:47 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[18:33] <ogra_> looks ok
[18:34] <ogra_> does snap list work ?
[18:34] <ogra_> (if so, which core snap is installed ? )
[18:35] <ses__> No it doesn’t work
[18:35] <ses__> Cannot communicate with the server
[18:35] <ogra_> right ...
[18:36] <ogra_> ls -l /snap/*core
[18:36] <ogra_> does that return anything ?
[18:36] <ses__> ogra_: yes. I see “1357 current” dirs
[18:37] <ogra_> thats ok too
[18:37] <ogra_> i wonder why it doesnt start ...
[18:37] <ogra_> anything in syslog ?
[18:38] <ses__> ogra_: there is something in syslog. Any key words I search for?
[18:42] <zyga> ogra_: (as for devmode being dropped, probably not but not sure (I wish we would write design down)
[18:42] <zyga> )
[18:42] <zyga> I hate when I drop )
[18:42] <ses__> ogra_: maybe this is relevant https://pastebin.canonical.com/176943/
[18:45] <ogra_> zyga, btw, ses__ is the third person in 4 days that has a non-starting snapd
[18:46] <zyga> ogra_: !!!!
[18:46] <zyga> ogra_: can you tell me more?
[18:46] <ogra_> ses__, hmm, do you have livepatch installed ?
[18:46] <ses__> ogra_: yes, there was other people having the same issue last night in this channel.
[18:48] <ses__> ogra_: I didn’t install livepatch
[18:48] <ogra_> ses__, ah, no, i was confused by the kernel messages in the paste
[18:48] <ogra_> zyga, any idea ? https://pastebin.canonical.com/176943/
[18:49] <ses__> ogra_: but I installed snapd yesterday
[18:49] <ogra_> ses__, and you didnt have snapd installed before ?
[18:49] <ses__> ogra_: first time installing it on a new machine
[18:50] <ogra_> (you seemingly have /snap/ubuntu-core there instead of /snap/core ... that kind of indicates an older install )
[18:50] <ogra_> (new installs should always get the core snap installed, not ubuntu-core anymore)
[18:51] <zyga> looking
[18:51] <zyga> bloody hell 2fa
[18:51] <ogra_> heh
[18:51] <ogra_> yeah
[18:52] <ogra_> snapd[18866]: error: cannot patch system state from level 3 to 4: cannot get snap state    for "cwr": <nil>
[18:52] <ogra_> seems the most relevant bit
[18:52] <alecu> ogra_: AlbertA: with the latest mir-kiosk, I get the black screen and (laggy!) pointer on the raspi2. But, when I try to start the mir-kiosk-apps all of mir freezes on the second frame, just like what I saw yesterday on the raspi3
[18:52] <zyga> ok logged in
[18:52] <ogra_> alecu, disconnect/connect ?
[18:52] <zyga> that bug is fixed in master I think
[18:53] <ogra_> alecu, i usually need to do that once for the -apps
[18:53] <zyga> and I think it was released in 2.21
[18:53] <alecu> ogra_: after a disconnect and connect, yes.
[18:53] <ogra_> zyga, "released"
[18:53] <ogra_> zyga, us normal users all have 2.20 still
[18:53] <zyga> upstream release
[18:53] <zyga> blame the SRU process
[18:53] <ogra_> 2.20.1ubuntu1 to be precise
[18:53] <zyga> what can I do?
[18:53] <ogra_> dunno
[18:53] <alecu> ogra_: sorry, after a disable and enable of the snap package. Will try disconnect
[18:54] <ogra_> zyga, trust your colleagues i was told :P
[18:54] <pedronis> anyway that shows trying to use snapd before upgrading snapd
[18:54] <zyga> ogra_: I trust all of my colleagues
[18:54] <ogra_> alecu, yeah, that needs both ... disable, disconnect, connect, enable
[18:55] <zyga> let's see when we can make it available to everyone
[18:55] <ogra_> alecu, like the mir wiki describes
[18:55] <ogra_> and at some point the content interface will just woork ;)
[18:56] <ogra_> if you have the pointer on black screen mir itself is definitely running fine
[18:57] <ogra_> my kodi snap is sadly currently broken (i tried to build the latest master which has the mir patches but also broken kodi ... ) ... so dont bother with that
[19:01] <ses__> ogra_: is there anything I can now to go around this issue?
[19:01] <ogra_> ses__, do you have many snaps installed already ?
[19:01] <ogra_> i'd try to purge snapd and install it again
[19:01] <ogra_> perhaps that helps ...
[19:02] <ogra_> (but thats just ut of desparation ... )
[19:02] <ses__> ogra_: should I also uninstall snap?
[19:02] <ogra_> i know it works on all my xenial installs over here
[19:02] <ogra_> snap is a commmand shipped by the snapd package
[19:02] <ogra_> so purging snapd should be enough
[19:02] <ogra_> and then just install t again
[19:03] <ogra_> then try something from the store ... like snap install htop ... that should pull in the core snap alongside
[19:03] <ogra_> once you knwo it works, you can start plying with your local snap that you tried to install before
[19:04] <ses__> ogra_: ok, will do “sudo apt-get remove --purge snapd”
[19:04] <ogra_> sudo apt purge snapd ... less typing ;)
[19:04] <ogra_> (same thing though)
[19:07] <AlbertA> alecu: you will need --devmode
[19:07] <AlbertA> alecu: I'm seeing some new syscalls with this driver, so I'll need to update the mir interface
[19:08] <alecu> AlbertA: devmode for mir-libs, mir-kiosk and mir-kiosk-apps ?
[19:08] <AlbertA> alecu: mir-kiosk and mir-kiosk-apps yeah
[19:09] <AlbertA> the interesting part is that ps shows miral-kiosk as defunct but yet it still runs...
[19:11] <ogra_> magic ;)
[19:12] <ogra_> (also known as "the zombie apocalypse is near")
[19:22] <alecu> AlbertA: ogra_: after installing both -kiosk and -kiosk-apps with devmode, it all seems to be working ok on the raspi 2.
[19:22] <alecu> thanks a lot!!!
[19:24] <kyrofa> alecu, "ok" = greater than a single frame?
[19:24] <alecu> kyrofa: I get plenty of frames now :-)
[19:24] <alecu> no end in sight
[19:24] <kyrofa> alecu, I really wanted to reply to your email and say "stop moving the mouse!"
[19:24] <alecu> lol :-)
[19:25] <kyrofa> alecu, nice to see you around by the way!
[19:40] <ogra_> alecu, awesome ... sorry that you had such a bumpy ride
[19:43] <alecu> it's the early days of the raspi image... totally understandable.
[19:51] <ryebot> kyrofa: I'm hitting some issue with the aliases, any idea what I might be doing wrong? https://gist.github.com/wwwtyro/aa34ccb81f6928f2bda37b32c7a00c1f
[19:52] <kyrofa> ryebot, I know you need to enable them somehow (it's not done automatically without an assertion that happens store-side)
[19:53] <kyrofa> ryebot, `snap alias` perhaps?
[19:53] <ryebot> ah, okay
[19:53] <ryebot> so it might not work if installed locally?
[19:53] <kyrofa> ryebot, not work == not automatically enabled? Yes
[19:54] <ryebot> kyrofa: gotcha, thanks. seems to work!
[19:54] <ryebot> thanks again!
[19:54] <kyrofa> ryebot, excellent! Of course
[19:55] <kyrofa> jdstrand, how does one request aliases to be automatically granted? Is it all manual right now, or is there a process for it?
[19:56] <jdstrand> kyrofa: it's manual
[20:03] <stokachu> jdstrand, is there anyone familiar with systemd wrt 14.04 snaps?
[20:03] <stokachu> jdstrand, trying to figure out why my snap is failing to install
[20:04] <ogra_> ses__, did you get anywhere with reinstalling snapd ?
[20:04] <jdstrand> stokachu: tvoss spearheaded the effort and I think slangasek may have poked at systemd, but perhaps ask your question here and maybe someone will know
[20:05] <stokachu> jdstrand, thanks
[20:05] <stokachu> it was basically this email https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snapcraft/2017-January/002706.html
[20:05] <stokachu> it just seems to not find a systemd service file
[20:05] <ses__> ogra_: I am trying it now. Distracted by other tasks
[20:05] <ogra_> ah, no worries
[20:05] <jdstrand> Main PID: 1548 (code=dumped, signal=SEGV)
[20:06]  * ogra_ grins about stokachu's last paragraph in the mail ... getting rid of maintainer scripts are one of the reasons we started snaps :)
[20:06] <stokachu> there is no snap.conjure-up.bridge.service in /etc/systemd/system
[20:06] <stokachu> but that does exist in 16.04
[20:07] <jdstrand> stokachu: if I had to guess, thinking it is a series 16 built snap with 14.04 libraries thing. this is probably related to the asciinema thread and friends that sergiusens is working on
[20:07] <jdstrand> stokachu: if a service fails to start it fails the install and cleans up after itself
[20:07] <stokachu> ah the email from mark?
[20:07] <tvoss> o/
[20:07] <stokachu> jdstrand, yea my snap never got installed b/c it hits that systemd error
[20:08] <jdstrand> stokachu: that whole thread, yeah-- there are complexities with series 16 built stuff on a 14.04 system that aiui, aren't being handled all the time
[20:08] <stokachu> ok yea, this looks like my systemd service file never makes it onto the system
[20:08] <tvoss> jdstrand: the issue mostly evolves around snaps using classic confinement, though
[20:08] <stokachu> tvoss, yea this is classic
[20:08] <jdstrand> stokachu: you might try turning that into a command (comment out 'daemon: ...', then install, then do 'snap run --shell conjure-up.bridge' and see if you can't debug better
[20:09] <tvoss> stokachu: how do you try to install the service file?
[20:09] <stokachu> tvoss, https://github.com/conjure-up/conjure-up-snap/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml#L16-L20
[20:09] <stokachu> jdstrand, ok i can try that
[20:10] <tvoss> stokachu: do you have a snap handy for testing?
[20:10] <stokachu> what if i run snapcraft on the 14.04 system and build from there?
[20:10] <stokachu> tvoss, yea one sec
[20:10] <stokachu> tvoss, actually you can do sudo snap install conjure-up --classic --edge
[20:10] <stokachu> it's the same one i do for xenial that works
[20:11] <stokachu> err snap download i guess
[20:11] <jdstrand> stokachu: I'm not sure snapcraft is available for 14.04 yet (but I'm not tracking that work)
[20:11] <tvoss> stokachu: let me clean up my testing environment
[20:11] <kyrofa> stokachu, as it stands, snapcraft doesn't run on trusty
[20:11] <kyrofa> (it has xenial-only deps)
[20:11] <stokachu> jdstrand, kyrofa ah ok
[20:11] <stokachu> didnt know if that would make a difference
[20:12] <kyrofa> tvoss, is the core snap on trusty the same as on xenial (i.e. is it still really xenial?)
[20:12] <kyrofa> Err, series 16 I guess
[20:12] <tvoss> kyrofa: yup, it's a series 16 core
[20:13] <kyrofa> tvoss, so we don't anticipate libc symbol issues if we build on xenial and run on trusty?
[20:13] <kyrofa> I hit that back in the day, but it may have been before we actually had a core snap. Everything blurs together
[20:14] <jdstrand> kyrofa: curious, with the lxc stuff, is snapcraft needed inside the container or can snapcraft from outside drive commands inside?
[20:14] <jdstrand> err, lxd*
[20:14] <tvoss> kyrofa: the assumption is to redirect everything to the core snap, and not pull in ABI from the host. classic is the exception here
[20:14] <kyrofa> tvoss, indeed, okay, makes sense
[20:15] <kyrofa> jdstrand, good question. I think the biggest requirement for it to be on the system is fetching stage packages
[20:15] <kyrofa> It also uses the container's sources.list by default for build-packages
[20:16] <stokachu> jdstrand, yea that asciinema thread is pretty much the same thing im hitting too it seems
[20:16] <ses__> ogra_: I was able to install htop. I guess it is working but having issue installing my own snap “Mount snap "cwr" (unset) (snap "cwr" requires consent to use classic confinement)”
[20:16] <ogra_> ses__, sounds like you want --classic in your snap install command
[20:17] <kyrofa> jdstrand, basically, every time snapcraft execs something else, we'd need to check to see if we need to exec in a container or on the host
[20:18] <kyrofa> jdstrand, and how that happens depends on what command is being run. For fetching stage packages we use the python3 apt API, so that's a big one
[20:18] <jdstrand> kyrofa: I don't know if this is at all helpful, but if the stage packages were broken out into a freestanding script, xenial host could copy stage-package script to trusty container, fetch stuff, then go from there. I suspect wanting lxd to build different series is interesting, but 14.04 is clearly the exception. series 18 would have snapcraft
[20:19] <jdstrand> well, python3-apt should be in trusty
[20:19] <kyrofa> jdstrand, yeah, but how do you use it if you're not in the container?
[20:20] <jdstrand> it isn't terribly interesting so long as we have series 16 core on trusty though I think
[20:20] <stokachu> so sergiusens mentioned having a python3 part, is that something I could do as a workaround for this issue?
[20:21] <jdstrand> kyrofa: I figures start the conteriner, lxc push it, lxc exec it, etc
[20:21] <jdstrand> kyrofa: but, I'm not saying you should do it. you guys have given this way more thought than I :)
[20:21] <kyrofa> jdstrand, ah sorry, I was referring to python3-apt being in trusty, not the script
[20:22] <kyrofa> jdstrand, yeah I think it really comes down to "snapcraft wasn't written that way." Not to say we won't get there eventually, it's just a question of the shortest path
[20:22] <tvoss> stokachu: so start of the bridge service fails, with the executable segfaulting. For that, the snap is removed immediately
[20:23] <tvoss> stokachu: and thus no service file :)
[20:24] <stokachu> tvoss, so should i do jdstrand's suggestion and try to run it as a script?
[20:24] <tvoss> stokachu: yup, that would be a good first step
[20:24] <ses__> ogra_: used —classic but got “error: cannot find signatures with metadata for snap cwr_0.1_amd64.snap" ?
[20:24] <stokachu> ok lemme try that
[20:26] <ses__> ogra_: snapcraft.yaml https://pastebin.canonical.com/176952/
[20:27] <stokachu> tvoss, jdstrand: so doing snap run --shell conjure-up.bridge starts my interface and applies the iptables rules
[20:28] <kyrofa> ses__, you need --dangerous as well
[20:29] <kyrofa> ses__, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/ is your non-2fa-protected friend
[20:29] <tvoss> stokachu: hmmm, that's funky
[20:29] <jdstrand> stokachu: hmm. did you have to snap connect anything?
[20:29] <tvoss> stokachu: would you mind trying to call conjure-up without snap run?
[20:30] <stokachu> jdstrand, nah as long as lxd is installed on the host
[20:30] <stokachu> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23859714/
[20:30] <stokachu> thats from journalctl
[20:30] <stokachu> lemme try running conjure-up
[20:30] <jdstrand> oh duh, its classic
[20:30] <ses__> kyrofa: sorry url autocomplete
[20:30] <jdstrand> ses__: use --dangerous for your cannot find signatures error
[20:30] <stokachu> conjure-up
[20:30] <stokachu> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[20:31] <stokachu> :(
[20:32] <tvoss> jdstrand: ^
[20:32] <stokachu> Jan 24 20:30:50 darthbawlz kernel: [24152.656439] traps: conjure-up[3152] general protection ip:7f26c316a1ee sp:7ffe79c932e0 error:0 in libc-2.23.so[7f26c3027000+1bf000]
[20:32] <stokachu> is in my syslog
[20:34] <jdstrand> libc-2.23.so is xenial's libc. trusty's is libc-2.19
[20:35] <stokachu> im guessing that gets pulled in during snapcraft build
[20:35] <jdstrand> I don't have the details, but I remember that there were issues on xenial when snaps tried to use a  shipped libc instead of the system one
[20:36] <jdstrand> if I were to guess, I'd guess this is the same issue. I think this is the thread I was mentioning before with the dynamic linker, etc
[20:36] <jdstrand> I've not looked in the issue. others in this channel I believe are actively looking at it
[20:37] <stokachu> ok, sounds like a decision needs to be made whether to use the system's libs in a classic snap?
[20:39] <stokachu> strace shows this open("/snap/core/current/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[20:40] <jdstrand> stokachu: the only thing I can suggest otoh is adjust LD_LIBRARY_PATH or running your command with /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.19.so $SNAP/bin/your.executable ...
[20:40] <jdstrand> actually
[20:41] <jdstrand> you would want to do /snap/core/current/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.23.so ...
[20:41] <stokachu> still segfaults it seems
[20:41] <jdstrand> anyway, I suspect with effort, you'd be able to use the right set of libraries then take that into a wrapper script for your command
[20:42] <stokachu> jdstrand, ok, but this is something that can be dealt with in snapcraft at some point?
[20:42] <jdstrand> stokachu: that is what the thread is about
[20:42] <stokachu> ok, thanks, at least it's a known issue
[20:43] <jdstrand> and, aiui, people are trying to figure out how to make this work well for people. it is rough now
[20:43] <stokachu> jdstrand, all good, it works fine on xenial. having trusty is just icing on the cake
[20:44] <stokachu> jdstrand, tvoss thanks for looking into it
[20:47] <jdstrand> stokachu: np. keep an eye on that thread and the other related threads on the snapcraft list and hopefully it'll get resolved soon
[20:47] <stokachu> jdstrand, sounds good, will do
[20:49] <mhall119> sergiusens: why does snapcraft require the core snap to be installed on the build-machine when using the classic interface?
[20:49] <kyrofa> mhall119, so it can use its linker
[20:49] <mhall119> ah, ok
[20:50] <mhall119> makes it kind of hard to build in lxc then
[20:50] <kyrofa> mhall119, indeed
[20:50] <kyrofa> mhall119, or LP
[20:51] <kyrofa> mhall119, it's a known issue
[20:51] <mhall119> or on my host, until that update that converts me off ubuntu-core
[20:51] <kyrofa> Ah, yes, that as well
[20:51] <mhall119> kyrofa: ok, as long as it's on someone's list to fix, I'll wait patiently
[20:51] <kyrofa> mhall119, yeah, it's very rough right now, we know
[20:53] <kyrofa> Thanks for bearing with us!
[21:02] <tvoss> stokachu: np
[21:09] <tvoss> stokachu: you might want to watch https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1657504
[21:09] <stokachu> tvoss, thanks i subscribed to it
[21:44] <ryebot> Is it possible for one snap to execute another snap binary in /snap/bin without using classic confinement?
[21:44] <ryebot> e.g., using some interface?
[21:48] <kyrofa> ryebot, I'm afraid not. Even if there were, there's no way for snap A to even know that snap B is installed (or request for it to be installed)
[21:49] <ryebot> kyrofa: understood, thanks!
[21:50] <kyrofa> ryebot, can you explain what you're trying to accomplish?
[21:50] <ryebot> kyrofa: certainly: I'm wanting to snap up multiple CNI plugins, and they sometimes want to execute one another
[21:51] <ryebot> They're pluggable, too, so I can't put them all in the same snap
[21:52] <kyrofa> ryebot, CNI?
[21:52] <ryebot> I /think/ I can do what I need with classically-confined snaps (barring dealing with possibly hardcoded plugin names!), but wanted to know if it was possible with strict confinement
[21:52] <ryebot> yeah, Container Networking Interface, iirc
[21:52] <ryebot> Basically, a bunch of binary files that sometimes call out to one another
[21:53] <kyrofa> ryebot, within what execution context? i.e. what loads the plugins? (no idea what CNI is)
[21:53] <ryebot> In our use case, kubernetes
[21:53] <ryebot> (and other plugins, of course)
[21:54] <kyrofa> ryebot, so is there a kubernetes snap, and you want to create snaps of its plugins?
[21:55] <ryebot> We'll probably be making a kubernetes snap, and yes, it will need to call its plugins that we're hoping to deliver as snaps
[21:55] <kyrofa> ryebot, bear with me, while I know what kubernetes is I've never used it. How does it "discover" plugins?
[21:56] <ryebot> the node agent, kubelet, is started with a cli argument or env var that points to the directory which contains all the plugins
[21:57] <ryebot> which looks like it's gonna be /snap/bin instead of the typical /opt/cni/bin (that's another thing I wasn't planning on bringing up yet!)
[21:57] <kyrofa> ryebot, and it crawls the directory upon startup, thereby obtaining a list of plugins that are available?
[21:57] <ryebot> As far as I understand, yes
[21:57] <kyrofa> ryebot, it sounds like you need bug #1655125
[21:57] <kyrofa> Hmm... the bot's gone
[21:58] <kyrofa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1655125 rather
[21:58] <ryebot> cool, thanks, I'll take a look :)
[21:58] <ryebot> I need to step into a meeting, thanks for your help, I'll be back to bug you more, I'm sure :D
[21:58] <kyrofa> ryebot, please do add a comment a mark yourself affected if you agree
[21:58] <ryebot> +1 will do!
[22:10] <BLu2> weird, just had to reinstall hexchat snap, because it would keep crashing on start up


[13:42] <hatch> ahoy
[13:48] <rick_h> party hatch
[13:51] <hatch> rick_h: hey u in the hotel?
[13:53] <rick_h> hatch: yep, just back from the grocery store
[13:53] <rick_h> needed some viddles, this whole 'travel through the night' thing confuses the schedule
[13:54] <hatch> cool, I gotta find me a SIM , everyone I found didn't have one for my phone :/
[13:54] <rick_h> hatch: :( I got lucky and got one at the airport terminal. <3
[13:54] <hatch> haha I've been awake for 27 hours so far
[13:54] <rick_h> hatch: hit up the guys down stairs. They make a big deal of the 'ask me anything' guys at the hotel
[13:54] <rick_h> hatch: let me know if you need company and maps. I've got the mifi loaded up for the week
[13:55] <hatch> cool will do, I dug the 'check yourself in' thing
[13:55] <rick_h> yea, cool
[13:55] <hatch> yeah we should meet up for supper
[13:55] <rick_h> hatch: definitely


[10:42] <Nijcsw> sup
[10:42] <Nijcsw> is jack broken on new or updated installs of ubuntustudio? any help to fix?
[17:58] <sakrecoer_> just found this: https://soundcloud.com/groups/ubuntu-studio
[17:59] <sakrecoer_> it is begging to be filled with delicious music made with ubuntu studio


 Everyone in this room. Have a question to ask, which I have already asked in the #google room through this chat program (XChat-GNOME). Hope that is ok? : )
[14:59] <Welshman> Hello?
[15:01] <penguin42> ask the question!
[15:06] <Welshman> penguin42: Thanks for your reply - glad someone has replied at last. Was also making sure that it is OK before asking! : )
[15:06] <Welshman> Which free app from the Google Play Store, especially security, does not interfere or change settings on a phone like close other apps and draw over other apps?
[15:07] <Welshman> Hope I get some sort of answer/reply very soon! Thanks. : )
[15:07] <penguin42> I don't understand your question - no app should interfere with other apps or draw over them
[15:09] <Myrtti> some do
[15:09] <Myrtti> very rare, but some do
[15:09] <m0nkey_> Talking censorship?
[15:09] <penguin42> yes but what is Welshman actually asking for?
[15:12] <Welshman> I own 2 Samsung Galaxy mobile phone and I have only recently found out that 3 free antivirus apps close other apps and draw over other apps after reading the Other description for each of those apps on the Google Play Store website. So....
[15:16] <Welshman> Hope I get some sort of answer/reply very soon! Thanks. : )
[15:23] <Welshman> Well?
[15:26] <Myrtti> well, keeping in mind that this is a Ubuntu channel, and a small one to boot, and it's Sunday, answers might not be quickly forthcoming
[15:26] <Myrtti> but continuing on your question
[15:28] <Myrtti> why would you have an antivirus on your phone? I know some people manage to infect their phones with all kinds of crap but if you've got some sense in what links to click, and not enable silly apps to sideinstall, the point of an antivirus is a bit lsot
[15:28] <Myrtti> lost, even
[15:28] <diddledan> funny pokémon mock-up is funny - the story is interesting too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDZjm4f9CEo
[15:28] <Welshman> Myrtti: Have just sent the following message to penguin42 after he asked "yes but what is Welshman actually asking for?": "I own 2 Samsung Galaxy mobile phone and I have only recently found out that 3 free antivirus apps close other apps and draw over other apps after reading the Other description for each of those apps on the Google Play Store website.". Hope he answers/replies soon! Thanks. : )
[15:29] <penguin42> Welshman: You might want to get used to the basics of irc first
[15:30] <penguin42> Welshman: 1) Dont repeat questions constantly  2) Dont private message people without asking 3) Use the right channels  4) Realise that if you don't get a reply there might not be people who know the answer  5) Really check if your question is clear
[15:30] <diddledan> 6) … 7) profit
[15:31] <diddledan> also be aware there are moron diddlers about
[15:31] <Welshman> Myrtti + penguin42: Away for a few minutes playing a game whilst I await a response to my question. Thanks. : )
[15:59] <Welshman> Well?
[16:04] <Myrtti> see penguin42's point 4)
[16:17] <Welshman> Myrtti: That means I will have to repeat my question etc again just incase someone else enters this channel/room and knows that answer or knows about Android apps! So, will return again in the next few minutes to repost my question etc. Thanks. : )
[16:19] <Myrtti> eh.
[16:26] <Welshman> Myrtti: Have returned for a few minutes to repost my question etc. So here goes! : )
[16:26] <Myrtti> please don't
[16:26] <Welshman> Hi. Everyone in this room. Have a question to ask, which I have already asked in the #google room through this chat program (XChat-GNOME). Hope that is ok? : )
[16:26] <Myrtti> the population of the channel hasn't changed almost at all
[16:27] <Welshman> Which free app, especially security, does not interfere or change settings on a phone like close other apps and draw over other apps?
[16:27] <Myrtti> the people that would answer the question still are doing something else, or don't know the reply
[16:28] <Welshman> To explain why I have asked that question. I own 2 Samsung Galaxy mobile phone and I have only recently found out that 3 free antivirus apps close other apps and draw over other apps after reading the Other description for each of those apps on the Google Play Store website. : )
[16:28] <ali1234> Welshman: every single antivirus app for android is a scam
[16:28] <ali1234> at best they do nothing, at worst they are literally viruses pretending to not be viruses
[16:29] <ali1234> the best way to avoid viruses on android is to check the permissions which the app requests and don't install anything that requests significantly more than it would appear to need
[16:29] <ali1234> and especailly don't click on anything that claims to be anti-virus, or claims to have detected viruses on your phone
[16:30] <Welshman> ali1234: What? Even the antivirus scanner contained within the 360 Security app?
[16:30] <ali1234> is a joke, yes
[16:31] <ali1234> nothing but a scam, like all norton software made in the past 15 years
[16:31] <Welshman> ali1234: Yes, I am well aware of "don't click on anything that claims to be anti-virus, or claims to have detected viruses on your phone". Don't have to be told!
[16:32] <Welshman> ali1234: Evidence: link for blog or post or website name, please!
[16:33] <ali1234> http://www.cnet.com/news/googler-android-antivirus-software-is-scareware-from-charlatans/
[16:34] <ali1234> essentially the bottom line is that android has built-in sandboxing which functions in much the same way as desktop antivirus
[16:34] <ali1234> if malware can get past that it will have no trouble getting past a third party app
[16:47] <Welshman> ali1234: Thank you for link - have copied. Also, will visit that/the website soon to check the date of blog or post. If early 2015 or earlier will return as it should be up to date! Thanks. : )
[16:50] <Welshman> ali1234: Just visited the website using the link that you have provided. I have found out that the blog/post was 'written' on November 18, 2011! That's 5 years ago. So, I don't think it/that stands. Sorry. But thanks again! : )
[16:51] <diddledan> yeah because they made it less secure OOTB to help scammers
[16:54] <Welshman> diddledan: Thanks for reply. Also, excuse me for my ignorance, but: What does OOTB mean or stand for? Thanks. : )
[17:01]  * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan
[17:01]  * diddledan giglges
[17:15] <daftykins> Welshman: out of the box
[17:15] <daftykins> i.e. default setups
[17:23] <Welshman> daftykins: Thanks for reply. : )
[17:26] <daftykins> Welshman: bit horrified by the way you perceive information to be legitimate or not
[17:28] <ali1234> seems reasonable to me
[17:28] <ali1234> i mean, asking for a recent source does not seem unreasonable
[17:28] <diddledan> the EU probably legislates over the legitimacy of aged documents :-p
[17:30] <diddledan> ali1234: I think the issue is dismissing JUST based on the age, rather than verifying whether it has been superseded assuming that it must have been.
[17:31] <diddledan> here’s the kicker: it might be accurate! perish the thought
[17:32] <daftykins> ^ dan knows it
[17:32] <daftykins> "sorry your claim is old, i shall ignore it entirely"
[17:32]  * diddledan diddles in public
[17:32] <daftykins> ooh you fiend
[17:32] <diddledan> :-p
[17:33] <diddledan> it’s terrible to mention me without diddling :-p
[17:33]  * diddledan diddles all over the room
[17:34] <daftykins> i had some woes with my lovely new machine again last night :( two total lock ups just on a skype video call, here on IRC via KiTTY (the PuTTY fork) and watching a horrible quality XviD Whoopi Goldberg film
[17:34] <diddledan> sounds like the dentist is next-door
[17:34] <daftykins> i'm blaming Whoopi for this one
[17:34] <daftykins> sorry sir :P i shall avoid skipping the diddling in future!
[17:34] <penguin42> daftykins: Question is how hard did it lock; did it ping? capslock? mouse pointer? ctrl-alt-f2 ?Anything in the logs?
[17:34] <diddledan> lol
[17:35] <diddledan> penguin42: I think he runs ‘dows
[17:35] <penguin42> diddledan: Oh well, we can fix that I think
[17:35] <diddledan> I’m not sure alt+ctrl+f2 does anything over in redmond
[17:35] <daftykins> fixed image display, fixed tone across the speakers...
[17:35] <daftykins> total goner
[17:35]  * penguin42 hands daftykins a FreeDOS floppy
[17:36] <diddledan> :-o
[17:36] <diddledan> >.<
[17:36] <daftykins> i memtest'd earlier but it's all good
[17:36] <diddledan> does that come with a web browser yet?
[17:36]  * diddledan downloads and runs in VB
[17:36] <penguin42> diddledan: Apparently there is one called arachne
[17:37] <diddledan> how big should I make it’s hard thingy?
[17:37]  * penguin42 isn't sure I should answer that in polite company
[17:37] <diddledan> and RAM? 8GB?
[17:38] <diddledan> VB suggests 32MB
[17:38] <diddledan> surely it’s lying
[17:38] <penguin42> for FreeDOS - not unreasonable for hard disk
[17:39] <diddledan> nono, not disk, ram
[17:39] <diddledan> disk it’s defaulting to 500MB
[17:40] <penguin42> 32MB would seem excessive for DOS but I'm suspecting it might be able to do it
[17:46] <m0nkey_> I need a new hard drive dock.. anyone recommend a good one? USB3 preferred.
[17:48] <daftykins> look for something with UASP support as a minimum
[17:48] <m0nkey_> UASP?
[17:48] <daftykins> USB attached SCSI protocl
[17:49] <ali1234> more commonly known as UAS
[17:49] <daftykins> ugh my keyboard is dropping o's again today
[17:49] <m0nkey_> Something like this? http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAMW42C2136&cm_re=hard_drive_docking_station-_-9SIAAMW42C2136-_-Product
[17:49] <daftykins> not based on every enclosure i've seen (:
[17:49] <penguin42> daftykins: o-dear
[17:49] <daftykins> nah it's an old mechanical that's been giving up for a few months
[17:50] <daftykins> if not years
[17:51] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh I've got a few model m's that each have their own quirks
[17:51] <Welshman> ali1234, daftykins, diddledan + penguin42: Thanks. Also, I will now leave as it seems that I will need to do 2 things: 1. Ask my question and provide the info elsewhere; 2. Before installing any security app for my 2 'phones I will have to visit the Google Play Store to look at the Other section to make sure that it does not close other apps and draw over other apps amongst 'other things' (was hoping that someone would answered my original quest
[17:51] <Welshman> ion). But I might return here in the future to ask another question. So, thanks to you all and all the best for the rest of 2016 + the future!! : )
[17:52] <daftykins> i'd rather you found appropriate places in future
[17:53] <ali1234> Welshman: ask yourself how anti-virus software is supposed to stop viruses without closing them?
[17:55] <daftykins> m0nkey_: looks a bit cheap
[17:55] <ali1234> like wise it needs to draw over them to show a warning
[17:55] <Myrtti> I wonder at what point the kitchen has cooled enough that we can go get the laundry through it from the garden
[17:56] <diddledan> o_O
[17:56] <diddledan> hot kitchen?
[17:56] <Myrtti> dinner plans of making chili con carne got swapped to just eat pizza
[17:56] <Myrtti> yeah, we've got a west facing conservatory with no door in between
[17:57] <diddledan> aah
[17:57] <m0nkey_> Tell D to install a door :)
[17:57] <daftykins> my bedroom up in the uninsulated roof was 30 deg C again just before :(
[17:57] <Myrtti> I think I'll make the chili tomorrow morning before it gets too hot
[17:57] <Myrtti> m0nkey_: why bother, just get the house to market during fall and move out :-P
[17:57] <m0nkey_> that works too :)
[17:59] <Welshman> ali1234: ? Before I go please explain what you meant by the following: "how anti-virus software is supposed to stop viruses without closing them?"! Look forward to your explanatory answer/reply. Thanks! : )
[17:59] <Myrtti> it was a question to you
[18:00] <m0nkey_> There's this thing called Google. You might have heard of it. :)
[18:00] <ali1234> Welshman: android software runs in a sandbox. the antivirus software can't interfere with any other processes unless you give it the necessary permissions
[18:01] <ali1234> that means it can't block viruses unless you give it permission to stop other apps
[18:01] <ali1234> and it can't warn you that an app is a virus unless you allow it to draw over other apps to display that warning
[18:16] <Welshman> ali1234: OK. But after reading "close other apps and draw over other apps" and 'other things' listed in the Other section of the 3 free antivirus apps for Android I became concerned. I only found out about it today! Also, even though I will do as I said previously I do have 1 final question. My question is: Is the same for Apple/the iPhone? Look forward to your answer/reply! : )
[18:16] <ali1234> i have no idea about apple but probably
[18:17] <ali1234> the bottom line is anti-virus can't operate without superuser access
[18:17] <ali1234> and neither can malware
[18:17] <daftykins> Welshman: i would say that running any kind of AV on a phone is utterly stupid and a waste of money + time
[18:17] <daftykins> regardless of OS.
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> and battery
[18:21] <Welshman> daftykins: Am certain that you have once read a report sometime of a virus or of viruses 'attacking' the Android OS! : )
[18:23] <daftykins> Welshman: this is not the 90s, there aren't viruses anymore
[18:23]  * diddledan sneazes
[18:24] <diddledan> damn you daftykins , you told me I wouldn’t get any more viruses!
[18:24] <daftykins> Welshman: and no, all you can do is use an up to date device and be sensible about not installing apps from unrecognised sources
[18:24] <daftykins> that's how all the bad things tend to get android users, is they do idiotic things - just like computer users ;)
[18:24] <diddledan> or silly apps like “FREE FART MASHINE"
[18:27]  * daftykins spots it on diddledan's home screen
[18:27] <diddledan> well I needed to provide some plausible deniability to my bottom
[18:28] <diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZD4A96Ay/
[18:28]  * diddledan whistles
[18:37] <Welshman> daftykins: Have just found 2 separate articles about/on a virus that can attack the Android OS dated earlier this year (DuckDuckGo and Google)! : )
[18:38] <daftykins> they are not virii
[18:39] <daftykins> Welshman: please stop acting like finding an article of a topic you don't understand disproves someone else
[18:40] <diddledan> omg the DDG Virus!
[18:40] <diddledan> related to the DDT pesticide
[18:40] <Welshman> daftykins: Here are the links to prove that I am saying the truth: www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3450938/Beware-Android-virus-WIPE-phone-Experts-warn-users-Mazar-malware-spread-text-message.html  and  www.idigitaltimes.com/hummingbad-malware-targets-android-app-downloads-how-detect-and-remove-root-access-544389
[18:41] <diddledan> omg, the daily fail
[18:41] <penguin42> ah dailymail proof
[18:41] <daftykins> Welshman: i think you need to understand the difference between trusted and reliable sources.
[18:41]  * diddledan checks el reg
[18:42] <daftykins> Welshman: i can find claims that God is a flying spaghetti monster online, does it mean i believe them? no.
[18:42] <penguin42> diddledan: It's sad when el reg is classified as a trusted source
[18:42] <diddledan> penguin42: it’s funny though
[18:42] <diddledan> penguin42: I like their laisez faire attitude
[18:43] <diddledan> daftykins: “claims”? you seem to be dismissing that the holy pastafar touched moses with his noodley appendage on top of a mountain!
[18:43] <daftykins> me too :D the site vocabulary is great
[18:44] <Welshman> daftykins: The Daily Mail is well known trusted UK paper. Also, if the idigitaltimes.com is not a reliable and trusted site then I will try to find 1 that is!
[18:44] <diddledan> bo yackor shar! in yo face, daftykins !
[18:44] <daftykins> Welshman: i'm trying to tell you that AV is rubbish, i have no reason to lie or any way to gain from this - either take it for what it is or go and enjoy your own thoughts, but i do not care to hear of them. got it?
[18:45] <daftykins> diddledan: that it did, it's also a crime that folks aren't allowed to represent their beliefs in their driving licenses!
[18:45] <diddledan> inorite
[18:47] <daftykins> !fud | Welshman
[18:47] <diddledan> !moo
[18:48] <diddledan> damn you lubotu3
[18:48] <daftykins> probably got deleted ;)
[18:48] <diddledan> apt-get moo
[18:48] <daftykins> !info mo
[18:48] <daftykins> ugh keybard
[18:48] <daftykins> !info moo
[18:48] <daftykins> aww
[18:49] <diddledan> !learn moo?
[18:49] <diddledan> she’s not playing ball :-(
[18:50] <daftykins> did we forget to give scooby bot snacks?
[18:51] <daftykins> "Since most HummingBad attacks have occurred in China and India, it is believed most smartphones acquired the malware because users downloaded apps from unofficial app stores with lax security protocols."
[18:51] <daftykins> what i stated already.
[18:51] <daftykins> rubbish scaremongering links
[18:53] <diddledan> did you see that you’re not able to watch pornography at mcdonalds anymore?!
[18:54] <Welshman> ali1234, daftykins, diddledan + penguin42: Am now, finally, leaving this channel/room. But I might return in the future. So, thank you all and all the best for the rest of 2016 and the future! : )
[18:54] <daftykins> no wai
[18:54] <daftykins> what did they go and do?
[18:54] <diddledan> don’t tell us you’re going, just go
[18:54] <ali1234> sorry guys i mentioned the free market
[18:56] <diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/16/starbucks_bans_smut/
[18:56] <diddledan> maccy-d and startbucks
[18:57] <diddledan> I’m going to boycott mcdonalds now!
[18:57] <daftykins> you can imagine something like that starts from a single bad experience by someone uptight enough to complain about it
[18:58] <diddledan> daftykins: it was just one time
[18:58] <diddledan> at band camp
[18:59] <daftykins> i just saw the pic they chose for the ubuntu forums story - https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/01/18/happy_penguin_image_via_shutterstock.jpg
[19:11] <zmoylan-pi> i was pondering today as i walked from dublin home if douglas adams description of the shoe even horizon should actually be the starbucks event horizon
[19:14] <ali1234> if he was writing today it probably would be
[19:14] <ali1234> or pound shops
[19:14] <ali1234> maybe not pound shops. you could probably have a functioning society with only pound shops
[19:15] <ali1234> admittedly not a great one
[19:15] <zmoylan-pi> i was in a eurostore today looking for a power pack... €20 for a 7500mah decent little battery for charging devices...
[19:15] <ali1234> for 1 euro?
[19:15] <diddledan> that’s more than a euro
[19:15] <ali1234> wait, what?
[19:16] <ali1234> i'm confused
[19:16]  * penguin42 is glad it's not just me
[19:16] <zmoylan-pi> they sell big stuff in euro stores in ireland... not in uk?
[19:16] <ali1234> ah yeah, sometimes they do have a couple expensive items by the tills
[19:16] <ali1234> "expensive"
[19:16] <ali1234> as in not £1
[19:17] <zmoylan-pi> they even had an android smart watch for €20
[19:17] <diddledan> still cheap tat
[19:17] <ali1234> i bought a smartwatch for £5
[19:17] <zmoylan-pi> i don't want to even imagine how bad a €20 smart watch is
[19:17] <diddledan> for small values of “smart"
[19:17] <ali1234> not android though. i bet those ones aren't either... they're just android "compatible"
[19:17] <ali1234> they make sure to write that all over the marketing material
[19:17] <zmoylan-pi> this had notifications, music player controls and a few other things mentioned on the box
[19:18] <ali1234> yeah
[19:18] <ali1234> but it doesn't actually run android
[19:18] <zmoylan-pi> i think the outside of the box was the extent of the instructions mind... :-P
[19:18] <ali1234> i bet it was something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Support-Notification-Pedometer-Compatible/dp/B00YUDQWDW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1468783110&sr=8-3&keywords=bluetooth+smartwatch
[19:18] <ali1234> that actually has a phone built in by the way, so it can operate standalone
[19:18] <zmoylan-pi> and i have been tempted by the dumbphones they sometimes have their for similar dosh
[19:19] <ali1234> but it is only 2G so it is largely useless
[19:19] <zmoylan-pi> i should take a pic next time...
[19:19] <zmoylan-pi> 2g is still around, though they are trying to remove the masts here in ireland to push people to 4g
[19:20] <ali1234> that thing actually runs the same OS as the recent nokia dumbphones
[19:20] <ali1234> it can even run some of the same apps
[19:20] <zmoylan-pi> oooh s40. a decent little os
[19:21] <ali1234> not S40
[19:21] <zmoylan-pi> ah
[19:21] <ali1234> nothing to do with symbian at all
[19:21] <zmoylan-pi> symbian is s60. s40 is java based dumbphones
[19:21] <ali1234> oh yeah... well, it's not that either
[19:23] <ali1234> ah... S30 they call it i think
[19:24] <ali1234> no wait... S30+
[19:40] <diddledan> I thought it was still symbian just not the latest s60
[19:41] <zmoylan-pi> one thing ms did was kill symbian deader than windows mobile...
[19:41] <diddledan> it’s amaziing how far android has changed since the htc magic
[19:42] <diddledan> (I had one of those!)
[19:43] <diddledan> ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Magic
[19:43] <zmoylan-pi> my first was htc hero with the chin.  it was shipped with donut when i got it
[19:44] <diddledan> amazing to think that was only 7 years ago
[19:45] <zmoylan-pi> of all the smart phones that i had i think the nokia e61i was the best.  decent keyboard, screen, battery life, apps
[19:45] <zmoylan-pi> all downhill from that
[19:45] <diddledan> they weren’t even fully-invested with touch back then, having that lil ball to navigate if you wanted
[19:46] <diddledan> doubling as a flashy thing
[19:47] <diddledan> 288 MB RAM On the hero
[19:48] <diddledan> 512MB internal storage
[19:48] <daftykins> oof
[19:48] <diddledan> (of which only 165 was available for apps)
[19:48] <zmoylan-pi> the most impressive app on the hero was google skies.  it impressed more nerds than any other app/feature
[19:48] <daftykins> i've the far newer HTC Desire no the shelf, it too suffers from storage space making it useless
[19:49] <diddledan> I think I had the gnex after the magic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Nexus
[19:49] <diddledan> with a stop-over in iphone 3gs
[19:50] <zmoylan-pi> i still have my iphone 3g on prepay here
[19:50] <diddledan> I’ve been sending them to a cash for phones reclaimation service
[19:51] <diddledan> mazuma methinks
[19:51] <diddledan> obviously that’s once I’d upgraded
[19:53] <diddledan> ooh, zootropolis might land for purchase tomorrow
[19:53] <diddledan> movie*
[19:53] <diddledan> that looks fun
[19:53] <diddledan> kids movies tend to be hilarious
[19:54] <diddledan> with lots of adult “wink wink” jokes that go over the kids’ heads
[19:56] <diddledan> ooh ooh, dark matter ep3 tomorrow, too (I’ve purchased the season-pass on iTunes!)
[21:02] <diddledan> curley braces are the manner of heaven
[21:02] <diddledan> mannar?
[21:02] <diddledan> how do you spell that?
[21:03] <diddledan> either way, C-style language construction is much nicer to my eye than things like ruby or python
[21:03] <daftykins> manner indeed
[21:03] <diddledan> and we won’t mention scheme
[21:04] <daftykins> unless it's Wile E Coyote's ?
[21:04] <zmoylan-pi> manna?
[21:05] <diddledan> how are you supposed to grok this ruby code? (prepare for paste link)
[21:05] <diddledan> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/rdJLSBzv/
[21:05] <daftykins> i just got irritated with my mechanical keyboard to the point of doing something, so i've unplugged it and thrown it on a chair, now i've got a membrane based Dell cheapy i have spare in my spares box, it feels far inferior :(
[21:06] <diddledan> I still like my macbook pro’s keyboard and my old aluminium wired mac keyboard
[21:06] <zmoylan-pi> i just hooked an ancient packard bell keyboard that was shipped with a winme pc many moons ago up to my new tablet which support otg connections... :-)
[21:06] <diddledan> although the keys are in the wrong places :-p
[21:07] <zmoylan-pi> argos were giving them away for €99 8" lenovo tablet...
[21:07] <diddledan> “I’m hitting all the right keys! not necessarily in the right order, I’ll grant you that, but at least they’re all the right keys."
[21:07] <daftykins> "...alluded the monkeys in the typerwriter room." :D
[21:08] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GeKLE0x3s
[21:08]  * zmoylan-pi wonders when they talk about infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters do they budget for the infinite staff who have to clean the poop out of the typewriters...
[21:08] <diddledan> aww, that video is blocked in the UK
[21:09] <diddledan> because it contains content from BBC Worldwide
[21:09] <zmoylan-pi> works in ireland :-)
[21:09] <diddledan> I don’t get that at all. it’s BBC who own the rights and I pay their bills! why can’t I see it?!
[21:10] <zmoylan-pi> because it means you're a commie downloader...
[21:10] <diddledan> I would understand it being blocked everywhere EXCEPT the UK but blocked in the UK only seems a bit backasswards
[21:10] <daftykins> never got on with apple peripherals myself... not much of apple anything actually ;)
[21:10] <zmoylan-pi> you're supposed to use iplayer
[21:11]  * diddledan hides his OS X user-agent string
[21:13] <daftykins> shopping for new keyboards but everyone's started ditching the right hand context menu key down by super and alt gr - and turned it into a silly "Fn" that does daft media things
[21:15] <diddledan> I don’t get those fn keys at all
[21:15] <diddledan> s/get/understand/
[21:15] <zmoylan-pi> they have to squeeze in those extra media keys no one wants so normal bogstand keys have to go...
[21:16] <daftykins> https://dixunusmoumzz.cloudfront.net/filer_public/f3/01/f3017669-5604-4fcd-943b-a6263d942658/apexm500_keyboard_design_merged_02.png
[21:16] <daftykins> and then often you get close to the norm, but they'll only show you the nasty US layout ;)
[21:16] <zmoylan-pi> this is a keyboard i intend to get at some point gods of internet commerce permitting... http://cherryamericas.com/product/g84-4100-miniature-keyboard-2/
[21:16] <diddledan> daftykins: even worse is shipping you the US layout
[21:17] <zmoylan-pi> the fun i had getting the £ symbol in the 80s and 90s...
[21:17] <diddledan> Ireland doesn’t believe in the £ symbol though!
[21:18] <diddledan> unless you used it for the Irish pound?
[21:18] <zmoylan-pi> loading network drivers, memory drivers and then an accounts system that wanted a lot of conventional memory meant there wasn't always space for the keyboard drivers
[21:18] <daftykins> drivers... for keyboards!?
[21:18] <zmoylan-pi> we used it till the euro came along, it's still on irish keyboards but we use the € more now
[21:18] <daftykins> that's the other thing actually, a lot of just keyboards and mice want software now, ridiculous
[21:18] <zmoylan-pi> keyb uk in dos
[21:19] <diddledan> I love that old programs required memory below 640KB to work
[21:19] <diddledan> free memory*
[21:19] <diddledan> or: s/(memory)/free \1/ :-p
[21:19] <zmoylan-pi> you could get weird dos versions to give you 700k+ low memory... could make computer act weird though
[21:19]  * diddledan likes confusing people with regexes
[21:20] <diddledan> wait, wha?
[21:20] <diddledan> you need the £ symbol for when you’re talking with the mainland
[21:20]  * diddledan ducks
[21:21] <diddledan> damned colonies
[21:21]  * diddledan ducks again
[21:21] <zmoylan-pi> we do a lot of dealings with nigeria and they use the £.  they drink more guinness there now and it's stronger stuff too
[21:22] <diddledan> so if you’re knocking-off the guinness factory you make sure you get the nigerian shipment container?
[21:22] <zmoylan-pi> guinness takes security _very_ seriously
[21:23] <diddledan> well yeah. otherwise they’d be unable to sell anything because it’s all been drunken
[21:23] <diddledan> damned staff
[21:23] <diddledan> drunk-in-charge of a brewery should be an offence
[21:23] <daftykins> my mate was in Dublin this weekend sampling some, i've asked him to have one once he gets home and to compare
[21:23] <daftykins> diddledan: and a bucket list entry
[21:24] <diddledan> lol
[21:24] <zmoylan-pi> it should be identical.  they send vans around to ensure that guinness everywhere is 'proper'
[21:24] <zmoylan-pi> of course outside ireland you find a lot of places can't even pour a pint right
[21:24] <diddledan> like the BBC detector-vans?
[21:24] <daftykins> yeah but this is Guernsey, the oft forgot
[21:24] <daftykins> lol
[21:25] <daftykins> all that TV license checking they don't do
[21:25] <daftykins> just FUD
[21:25] <zmoylan-pi> if guinness is on tap, then there's a van there sometimes to check the pipes
[21:25] <zmoylan-pi> you see them all over dublin and rest of the country
[21:25] <daftykins> ah har
[21:25] <daftykins> maybe i'll make it over again someday
[21:27] <zmoylan-pi> guinness saved irelands economy in wwii... http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/How-Guinness-saved-Ireland-in-World-War-II.html
[21:35] <diddledan> did you sell it to the Germans?
[21:35] <daftykins> :O
[21:35] <zmoylan-pi> if they wanted to pop over and pick it up yes...
[21:36] <zmoylan-pi> i do remember reading of a german interned after he ended up in ireland escaping from the camp leaving a note to the effect. 'have escaped for the weekend, going to dublin for dinner and a show, back tuesday'
[21:57] <diddledan> USB has had a version bump to enable super-fast charging? https://twitter.com/MikeStucka/status/754796456180088841
[21:58] <diddledan> how floppy drives worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHRc-QMoUE4
[22:00] <zmoylan-pi> 8" disks.  just going out of fashion when i started...
[22:03] <zmoylan-pi> the physical size of those floppy drives...
[22:08] <zmoylan-pi> commodore pets... i learned to type on those...
[22:53] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/Nivo0o0/status/754811021986897921
[23:09]  * zmoylan-pi wonderws if i can start sending replies in ogham to next emojii message i get...
[23:23] <diddledan> no
[23:30] <zmoylan-pi> challenge accepted... :-D