[04:32] <ali1234> bug 1048556
[04:51] <ali1234> https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-runtime <- is this what it looks like?
[04:51] <ali1234> "valve linux"
[04:51] <ali1234> i see crosstool and buildroot
[04:55] <ali1234> sure, it's meant to be a chroot... but how hard would it be to throw on a kernel and make it the main system?
[06:22] <ali1234> lol
[06:22] <ali1234> i wrote a program to stress gnome-panel and find leaks
[06:22] <ali1234> found a leak in metacity instead
[06:23] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1669331/
[06:24] <ali1234> makes metacity memory usage increase about about 500kb/sec
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> just normal window actions?
[06:42] <ali1234> minimize, maximize, show, hide
[06:42] <ali1234> trying to narrow down the cause now
[06:55] <ali1234> ok, it's show/hide
[06:59] <ali1234> minimizing also does it... looks like any state change on the window
[07:16] <ali1234> as usual, valgrind does not consider it a real memory leak. because gnome developers are doing their usual trick of putting stuff in a hash table and then never using it again.
[07:29] <MartijnVdS> "It's still reachable!"
[07:32] <ali1234> hmm... it's actually weirder than that
[07:34] <ali1234> so because certain XEvents do not have a time stamp (apparently) metacity sends dummy property changes and then waits for the event to return (with a timestamp)
[07:34] <ali1234> it does this a lot
[07:35] <ali1234> and when it does it, it doesn't properly free the XEvent
[07:35] <MartijnVdS> yay non-timestamped events
[07:35] <MartijnVdS> I've heard more people complain about those
[07:36] <ali1234> if this code is in mutter i will scream
[08:00] <ali1234> this might actually be an X11 bug
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://xkcd.com/349/
[08:03] <ali1234> when an XEvent happens it mallocs some memory
[08:04] <ali1234> when the event is handled it doesn't free the event, it puts it into a list to be reused
[08:04] <ali1234> but then it never reuses it
[08:04] <ali1234> it just mallocs more and more forever
[08:04] <ali1234> this is in libX11
[08:05] <ali1234> that's why it is still reachable
[08:10] <ali1234> ah, i see what's happening
[08:11] <ali1234> i'm filling the event queue faster than metacity can handle it
[08:11] <ali1234> so it keep generating more and more events because the old ones aren't free yet
[08:11] <ali1234> the unused events then build up and never get freed
[08:13] <ali1234> apparently metacity can only handle 4 events/ms
[08:14] <ali1234> wait, no, i mean it takes 4ms to handle 1 event
[09:43] <SuperEngineer> morninks all
[10:13] <jacobw> morning SuperEngineer
[10:15] <dwatkins> hi di hi
[10:19] <SuperEngineer> o?
[10:20] <SuperEngineer> [that's a very tired version of "o/"]
[10:20] <SuperEngineer> ...up again till wee hours this a.m.
[10:21] <SuperEngineer> my prize... I got my .37 kernel back, I got my nvidia 304 experimental back... I've got my system back!
[10:22] <dwatkins> hooray, SuperEngineer - now run a backup ;)
[10:23] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: done already! ;)
[10:23] <dwatkins> excellent - what do you use to backup, SuperEngineer?
[10:24] <SuperEngineer> a separate drive in same pooter - and rsync'd whole of /home
[10:30]  * SuperEngineer makes mental note to buy external drive and backup whole damn system! ☺
[10:32] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: yeah, that's what I'm just about to do
[10:32] <dwatkins> I wonder what the best mechanism is - turn off the machine and boot from an external USB stick so no files are in use, perhaps
[10:32] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: you could save me some £££ here - send me your external drive [pretty please] ;)
[10:33] <dwatkins> lol
[10:33] <dwatkins> I need my drives for my own backups, I have several PCs.
[10:33] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: protip: get 100/100 fibre, everyone's drive will be your external drive with sshfs ;)
[10:33]  * MartijnVdS mounts $VPS that way
[10:33] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: you're lucky in that you can get that
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: You're free to move to the Netherlands ;)
[10:34] <dwatkins> I am, yes.
[10:34] <dwatkins> I may need to learn Dutch first.
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> The only people who don't speak English are <10 years old
[10:35] <dwatkins> ah ok, I imagine it might be useful to speak Dutch in a technical support job, though.
[10:35] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  ;)
[10:41] <SuperEngineer> Anyone else using Steam here... and have Puddle - I'm getting tempted
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> I've only played half-life through steam
[10:44] <dwatkins> I played TF2 a couple weeks ago, not seen Puddle.... *starts Steam*
[10:44] <AlanBell> just read that TF2 is a 12GB download, that can't be right can it?
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it is..
[10:44] <dwatkins> wouldn't entirely surprise me, AlanBell
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> 1GB of game engine, basic models etc
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> 11GB of hats.
[10:45]  * AlanBell has a hat
[10:45] <AlanBell> why does a game have hats?
[10:46] <dwatkins> monetisation
[10:46] <jacobw> DLC
[10:46]  * SuperEngineer found great joy in deleting Half-Life from windoze partition & having it here instead
[10:47] <jacobw> HL/CS is old :(
[10:47] <SuperEngineer> ...but fun
[10:48] <jacobw> I'm quite exciting by the prospect of running CS:S on my Ubuntu laptop
[10:50] <SuperEngineer> Just a thought - I hope all this Steam commotion doesn't make people forget things like DOSbox
[10:55] <AlanBell> my dns is a bit screwy this morning
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: some steam games ARE dosbox + the old DOS game :)
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but those haven't been ported to Linux yet (should be easy for the devs though)
[10:56] <dwatkins> My Ubuntu PC is now my newest gaming console, I have an xbox controller which seems to work fine with it and am downloading TF2 :)
[10:57] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: that makes me wonder if gog.com supports Linux...
[10:58] <directhex> AlanBell, 12GB isn't too big by modern standards, really
[10:58] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: wow!
[10:59] <directhex> an MMORPG is much bigger
[10:59] <SuperEngineer> Barry Drake on mail list has just confirmed same problem as I had with newest driver requested by Steam...
[10:59] <directhex> but look at it this way - if a game is meant to be played at 1080p, then how many high resolution texture files need to ship? how much space to high res pictures take? see also sounds, 3d models, maps, badgers
[11:00] <SuperEngineer> ...and has a much easier way out than it took me to resolve last night!
[11:00] <MartijnVdS> directhex: 3d models are actually one of the smaller things, even with 6 billion polys
[11:00] <directhex> MartijnVdS, true
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> yay vectors
[11:01] <AlanBell> yeah, I figured they would be comparable to console games bug I guess they are going to be bigger than lego harry potter on the wii
[11:01] <AlanBell> s/bug/but
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: console games come on blu-ray discs, which can store up to 50GB
[11:01] <directhex> point is, taking tf2 as the example, the game's full set of executables and libraries is under 90 meg. of which 51 meg is libcef.so (Chromium Embedded Framework, i.e. the in-game hat store's web browser engine)
[11:02] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[11:02] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[11:05] <directhex> -rwxrwxr-x  1 directhex directhex 5.3G Feb 16 09:45 Team Fortress 2 Content.gcf
[11:05] <directhex> -rwxrwxr-x  1 directhex directhex 4.5G Feb 16 09:45 Team Fortress 2 Materials.gcf
[11:06] <directhex> AlanBell, you're correct that games targetting the xbox 360 first tends to weigh in at ~5 gig, due to DVD limitations
[11:06] <directhex> AlanBell, if they target PC first, then just a decent set of textures compared to what the 360 can manage will bump that up a lot
[11:06] <AlanBell> I will try and see one of these games one day
[11:07] <directhex> well, let's use GTA4 as an example
[11:07] <jacobw> dwatkins: an Xbox controll w/ Ubuntu
[11:07] <directhex> it's a single-disc xbox 360 game, right?
[11:08] <AlanBell> I guess. I am sure they are fun, I was just a bit surprised at it being bigger than a film
[11:09] <AlanBell> we only have a playstation 2 and a wii
[11:09] <AlanBell> I guess I haven't seen any modern games of the generation after those
[11:09] <AlanBell> apart from angry birds
[11:10] <directhex> the ps2 is 13 years old
[11:10] <dwatkins> jacobw: yes
[11:10] <directhex> let's use some concrete examples. here's GTA on PS2: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/04/gtasa.jpg
[11:11] <directhex> and here's GTA on a PC, with a graphics enhancement mod: http://metalarcade.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/gta_4_icenhancer_6.jpg
[11:12] <dwatkins> The cobblestones have no undulation, I feel cheated.
[11:14] <jacobw> dwatkins: how?
[11:14] <AlanBell> that is quite a difference
[11:17] <directhex> here's The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim, on 2006's Xbox 360: http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/oi5iq.jpg
[11:20] <directhex> the same game, on pc, with a few mods scattered about: http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/deadalive.jpg
[11:20] <directhex> oh here we go, a better comparable shot: http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/aircav.jpg
[11:21] <directhex> er, http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/arboretum.jpg
[11:21] <directhex> or http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/dawnofwar.jpg if you prefer
[11:21] <directhex> either way, that's the technology gap applied to the same game
[11:22] <jacobw> wow
[11:22] <directhex> or http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/1920/greenzone.jpg is another nice one. generally, deadendthrills.com shows what a few mods can do with a pc game
[11:22] <jacobw> that's a remarkable difference
[11:23] <jacobw> how do the mods work?
[11:26] <directhex> jacobw, http://deadendthrills.com/index.php?cat=1643 explains the purpose of every mod used for deadendthrills screenshots
[11:26] <directhex> installing all the mods is *hard work*. i mostly just install the apchaii hair
[11:27] <jacobw> is that a texture?
[11:28] <directhex> there are some limited texture mods... most of skyrim's worst texture crimes were taken care of by the free 7 gig "high res texture pack"  dlc.
[11:29] <directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/app/202485/
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> I like how Half-Life (1) has a "high-res texture and model pack"
[11:29] <directhex> lots of inferior shaders though, which many mods try to address
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> but it's from 2000 or something so it's still not large (or very high-res) :)
[11:32] <directhex> those are the higher resolution models made for the dreamcast version of half-life
[11:32] <directhex> which was cancelled at the last minute
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> directhex: they're also used in Blue Shift
[11:33] <directhex> so all the dreamcast content - the high res models, and the mini campaign starring a guard, ended up in a standalone retail release for PC - blue shift
[11:33] <directhex> the main visible difference is scientists' ties are textures originally & separate polygons with the new models
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> the guns look a lot more detailed as well
[11:34] <MartijnVdS> and the berets of the military "captains" are black, not red
[11:35] <jacobw> Does Microsoft provide ISOs for installing Windows 7 now?
[11:36] <directhex> er, somewhere. hang on.
[11:36] <directhex> 32 or 64 bit?
[11:37] <directhex> and which version (home premium, professional, etc)
[11:37] <jacobw> 32bit professional
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> Yes
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> official ISOs are available
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> they work as a 30-day trial, unless you have a valid registration code (then they work as a full install)
[11:38] <directhex> http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24280.iso
[11:38] <directhex> i think that's English Professional x86
[11:38] <jacobw> Thanks
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> I re-installed Win7 on my Vaio using that to get rid of Sony crapware
[11:39] <jacobw> VAIO is not Linux friendly IIRC
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: mine is all-intel, and the 3G chip is even supported if you get the firmware from your Windows partition
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> even the fingerprint sensor works with a bit of hacking
[11:39] <jacobw> Huh, that's good
[11:41] <popey> morning
[12:14] <kvarley> Annoying...I just made a USB installer of ubuntu and it works on my laptop but will not boot on my desktop
[12:14] <kvarley> It accesses it then just says boot failure
[12:15] <kvarley> Hmmm apparently formatting the media in windows is supposed to work
[12:19] <kvarley> BIOS systems are so annoying because they're non-standard
[12:19] <kvarley> Some are amazing and some are utterly hopeless
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: you haven't booted enough UEFI systems
[12:20] <penguin42> kvarley: When did you last see an amazing one?
[12:20] <kvarley> penguin42: I have an Asus board with a GUI BIOS which is amazing
[12:20] <kvarley> Every feature is easy to find and it works really well
[12:21] <kvarley> My laptop one can do all the things I need but it's hard to find stuff
[12:21] <kvarley> My desktop one is just awful unless you're messing with power settings or clock speeds then it's average
[12:21] <kvarley> Is there such thing as an open source bios?
[12:21] <penguin42> there is
[12:22] <kvarley> Any good?
[12:22] <penguin42> lookup coreboot
[12:22] <penguin42> kvarley: The problem is it has to be ported to each type of hardware
[12:22] <kvarley> penguin42: Do any hardware manufacturers ship an open source bios?
[12:23] <kvarley> Weirdly, making my usb installer in windows worked
[12:24] <penguin42> kvarley: not that I'm aware of; EFI itself I think is under an open license (or some part of it?)
[12:26] <kvarley> computer just hot rebooted
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> sounds fun
[12:29] <kvarley> Managed to get gparted loaded up
[12:29] <kvarley> So I'm one step closer
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> with random reboots, I'd be afraid to run that
[12:30] <kvarley> It's fine, everything is backed up
[12:30] <kvarley> Worst case I'll just wipe it all and start again
[12:30] <kvarley> Moving a 100 GB partition, only gonna take 5 mins. SSD win :)
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> took half an hour on my SSD
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> but that was NTFS, maybe that matters
[12:34] <directhex> er, moving how?
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> directhex: sda: | Dead space | sda1: Windows Partition | Free space |
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> directhex: after move:" sda: | sda1: Windows Partition | Free space |
[12:35] <directhex> so not LVM then
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> no, gparted
[12:35] <directhex> ok. there's a data loss bug when moving LVM partitions on an SSD
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> there is?
[12:36] <directhex> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/1082325
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> how would that work? over-eager TRIM?
[12:36] <directhex> yes, over-eager TRIM!
[12:38] <penguin42> hmm why's that only a medium on quantal
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: because 3 people use LVM on SSD
[12:39] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I doubt that!
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> okay, 5
[12:44] <penguin42> I guess it's an optional feature and only affects a pvmove which is relatively rare
[12:59] <celesteh> hello, i have a m-audio fast track ultra, which is a usb soundcard. It works fine with jack, but when i open the sound preferences pane to try to route normal system audio through it, it does not show up anywhere there.  can i use it with pulse audio, or is it jack only?
[13:06] <penguin42> does it show up in /proc/asound/cards ?
[13:13] <bigcalm_xoom> Goodness, am I still here?
[13:13] <jacobw> yes
[13:16] <bigcalm_xoom> Whoops :)
[13:20] <bigcalm_xoom> The tweet from this morning is the most popular thing I've ever done. 11 replies, 60 retweets and 17 favorites
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: what did you say now? ;)
[13:21] <bigcalm_xoom> Each time I unlock my phone there are more notifications waiting
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: what kind of graphics card do you have?
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: because I've been able to use multi-monitor since forever on intel
[13:24] <bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: nvidia geforce gtx 660
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> hope it works after the next dist-upgrade then ;)
[13:24] <bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: 2 DVI and 1 HDMI on the same card
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: I won't re-tell the story of re-installing the nvidia driver on coworkers' machines
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[13:25] <bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: I upgraded compiz and the system is already dead. I need to work out how to fix it
[13:26] <bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: this setup was out of the box 12.10. I haven't installed binary drivers yet
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_xoom: wow, nouveau is getting better then :)
[13:28] <bigcalm_xoom> MartijnVdS: it is dog slow though. I want to install the nvidia binary, but I don't know if it will able able to still keep the setup I have
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> the nvidia tools should allow you to set it up similarly
[13:29] <bigcalm_xoom> Coffee be drank. Time to go shopping
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> but I don't think you can use the "normal" Ubuntu way
[13:30] <bigcalm_xoom> No, I think you are right there
[13:31] <bigcalm_xoom> I. Going to have to write a blog post to answer all of the questions
[13:31]  * bigcalm_xoom zooms away
[13:31] <bigcalm_xoom> Aww, I wrote xooms but it got auto corrected
[14:29] <mine> How can I save VLC Player downloaded from terminal as setup for future installations?
[14:50] <czajkowski> hmmm
[14:50] <czajkowski> sound seems to have gone
[14:50] <czajkowski> and no idea why
[14:50] <czajkowski> I can hear the drums on start up
[14:50] <czajkowski> then no sound on any other application
[14:50] <czajkowski> not even on the test sound
[14:50] <czajkowski> :/
[14:56]  * penguin42 wonders who gave me a bytemark rec - whoever it was thanks
[15:00] <czajkowski> I had sound
[15:00] <czajkowski> I was playing rhytmbox
[15:00] <czajkowski> and now nothing
[15:01] <czajkowski> this is very confusing
[15:01] <penguin42> czajkowski: There are a few things can happen; are you using pulse?
[15:02] <czajkowski> penguin42: if it's the default then yes
[15:02] <czajkowski> as I've never changed a setting
[15:02] <penguin42> ok
[15:02] <penguin42> czajkowski: so the most likely thing is you've muted it somehow
[15:03] <penguin42> czajkowski: but it's also possible something other than pulse grabbed the sound card, or that pulse is now sending it somewhere else - like up your HDMI connection if you have one
[15:03] <penguin42> czajkowski: what does the command   pactl info    say as the 'default sink'
[15:04] <czajkowski> when I go into the sound setting it can see an input
[15:04] <czajkowski> and an output looks to be not muted
[15:04] <czajkowski> but when I test left/right
[15:04] <czajkowski> nothing
[15:04] <czajkowski> most odd
[15:04] <czajkowski> Default Sink: alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1b.0.analog-stereo
[15:05] <penguin42> ok, that's good - sounds like an internal Intel audio
[15:05] <czajkowski> penguin42: I've rebooted twice and still not working though
[15:05] <penguin42> czajkowski: How about   lsof /dev/snd/*   is it all pulseaudi as the command?
[15:07] <czajkowski> penguin42: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1671627/
[15:07] <penguin42> czajkowski: Nope, lsof   it's a command
[15:08] <czajkowski> penguin42: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1671637/
[15:09]  * bigcalm sneaks in
[15:09] <penguin42> czajkowski: Yeh that's ok
[15:09] <penguin42> czajkowski: ok, can you pastebin the output of    amixer
[15:10] <czajkowski> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1671652/
[15:12] <penguin42> hmm I think that's OK as well.  Hmm
[15:12] <penguin42> czajkowski: You on speaker or phones?
[15:12] <czajkowski> tis a bit odd
[15:12] <czajkowski> speaker
[15:12] <penguin42> ok
[15:14] <penguin42> czajkowski: Try installing paman and look at the properties on the sink
[15:14] <czajkowski> penguin42: ok will do
[15:14] <czajkowski> thanks
[15:16] <penguin42> czajkowski: You could also try  pasuspender  cat /bin/ls > /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p     which should sound truly awful
[15:17] <czajkowski> nothing
[15:18] <penguin42> hmm
[15:18] <penguin42> you've remembered to turn your amp on haven't you? :-)
[15:19] <czajkowski> just my laptop
[15:19] <czajkowski> this is really begining to confuse me
[15:20] <penguin42> czajkowski: Only thing I've got left is to run  alsamixer   and check all the options; any binary selectors just try flipping them and see if it springs into life
[15:22] <czajkowski> penguin42: thanks for the help
[15:22] <czajkowski> much appreciated
[15:22] <penguin42> let me know if you find out what did it
[15:28] <czajkowski> penguin42: went to other user and foud sound working
[15:28] <czajkowski> rebooted twice more
[15:28] <czajkowski> and now have sound
[15:29] <czajkowski> boggles
[15:30] <czajkowski> plan vlc and it stops
[15:30] <czajkowski> now back to square one
[15:32] <penguin42> hmm odd
[15:32] <penguin42> anything in dmesg?
[15:34] <czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1671866/
[15:37] <penguin42> nothing interesting
[16:14] <bigcalm> Updated compiz and it doesn't like my system :(
[16:17] <penguin42> what did it do to you?
[16:20] <bigcalm> Pendulum: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/JMnvLfhYiDN
[16:21] <bigcalm> oops :)
[16:22] <bigcalm> penguin42:  https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/JMnvLfhYiDN
[16:22] <bigcalm> Pendulum: sorry :)
[16:23]  * penguin42 swings
[16:24] <penguin42> bigcalm: Looks like graphics driver to me - text console+mouse pointer is quaint
[16:24] <bigcalm> penguin42: that's what I thought :)
[16:24] <bigcalm> penguin42: except that it's the default graphics driver that comes with Ubuntu 12.10
[16:24] <penguin42> which hardware?
[16:25] <bigcalm> nVidia GeForce GTX 660
[16:25] <bigcalm> But using the free driver that comes with xorg
[16:25] <penguin42> any crash info in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or /var/log/lightdm ?
[16:27] <penguin42> bigcalm: You're dual head with one on its side?
[16:28] <penguin42> bigcalm: The nouveau driver on 12.10 is a bit touchy for me; I run with KDE, have to disable the OpenGL effects for it to work, and also it's a bit touchy when switching monitors on my work laptop; some monitors if I boot with it plugged in it's unhappy but if I add the monitor later it's OK; some are fine either way
[16:29] <bigcalm> penguin42: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/
[16:31] <penguin42> bigcalm: Nice - Yeh I think you found _the_ working combination of unity/graphics driver that worked :-(
[16:31] <bigcalm> Worked once
[16:32] <penguin42> nod
[16:33] <bigcalm> I'm on my laptop atm. Might go and pastebinit on the xorg log
[16:33] <penguin42> nod
[16:33] <BigRedS> myrant.net? There's a domain I'll be forever envious of
[16:34] <penguin42> you wouldn't think myrant would go well with bigcalm would you?
[16:34] <BigRedS> haha!
[16:34] <jacobw> lol
[16:34] <BigRedS> Yeah, I'd not noticed that
[16:34] <bigcalm> :D
[16:35] <bigcalm> BigRedS: I also own and use idophp.co.uk :)
[16:35] <penguin42> I guess someone has to!
[16:35] <bigcalm> :P
[16:36] <BigRedS>  yeah, I'd be less proud of that one :)
[16:37] <bigcalm> Pfft
[16:38] <bigcalm> I don't use smutsmith.com as much as I'd like to ;)
[16:38] <penguin42> bigcalm: While nouveau is a heck of a lot better than it was, it's still touchy with multiple monitors is my experience
[16:39] <penguin42> but at least it seems stable when you get it in a mood it likes
[16:39] <bigcalm> penguin42: I don't think that my problem right now is to do with multiple monitors.
[16:39] <penguin42> bigcalm: OK
[16:39] <bigcalm> penguin42: I've updated compiz, not the gfx driver
[16:41]  * bigcalm nips off to do the pastebin thing
[16:51] <bigcalm> Humm. Just booted and it's all working just fine
[16:51] <bigcalm> Grr at computers
[16:51] <penguin42> haha
[16:55] <bigcalm> Now to ever so slowly pick my way though each of the 236 remaining updates
[16:57] <penguin42> not just going for it?
[17:01] <bigcalm> penguin42: no. Because that video is the result of 'just going for it'
[17:02] <bigcalm> The video also depicted my view once upgrading compiz on its own, hence posting it
[17:05] <bigcalm> Humm. Spotify likes to freeze the whole desktop now and then. That's a new feature
[17:15] <Azelphur> is Skype for Linux still terrible, I abandoned ship a couple of years ago
[17:16] <bigcalm> Azelphur: I prefer it over the Windows version
[17:16] <bigcalm> Azelphur: and use it daily
[17:16] <Azelphur> that sounds promising o.O
[17:17] <Azelphur> I've been anti-skype ever since their android/linux bullshit
[17:18] <bigcalm> !ohmy | Azelphur
[17:18]  * Azelphur shrugs
[17:18] <Azelphur> it's hard to use a nice word ;)
[17:23] <BigRedS> what's their android/linux, er, stuff?
[17:23] <BigRedS> I've only ever used it on those two platforms
[17:23] <BigRedS> I dislike it for the UI being atrocious more than anything else, but I don't imagine it's any better on Windows
[17:24] <bigcalm> It's more irritating on Windows
[17:24] <penguin42> Azelphur: I guess you'll have to stick to turlingdrome, swut, joojooflop or ...Belgium
[17:25] <Azelphur> BigRedS: in the early android days, there was no Skype client, people made gateway apps which Skype actively blocked.
[17:25] <Azelphur> as for Linux, lack of support/updates
[17:26] <Azelphur> penguin42: Belgium sounds fun
[17:28] <penguin42>  <shock>
[17:29] <Azelphur> back when I used skype 2.x, it'd continually crash (silently) and leak memory \o/
[17:30] <Azelphur> so I'm sort of hesitant to give it another go, might do though
[17:30] <Azelphur> what with MSN disappearing and all.
[17:40] <penguin42> Google talk?
[17:40] <Azelphur> yea, google talk and IRC are always my best ports of call.
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/alyankovic/status/303196218807439360
[17:45] <jacobw> Skype 4 is good
[17:46] <Azelphur> fun
[18:35] <BigRedS> Azelphur: Skype's always worked for me. I use it incredibly infrequently, though
[18:35] <Azelphur> fun
[18:35] <Azelphur> as I say I was never disputing it working, just it being terrible
[18:35] <BigRedS> I'd use something else, but there isn't really a free replacement
[18:35] <Azelphur> indeed, there needs to be a decent replacement
[18:36] <Azelphur> although, ekiga 4 looks pretty awesome
[19:08] <AlanBell> free -m
[19:09] <AlanBell> gah
[19:09] <AlanBell> too many keyboards on this desk
[19:09] <zleap> lol
[19:11] <BigRedS> Synergy!
[19:12] <BigRedS> (also, it's 2013. update your muscle memory to free -g)
[19:15] <czajkowski> penguin42: killall pulseaudio gives me back sound
[19:23] <penguin42> czajkowski: Hmm
[19:24] <AlanBell> not more pulseaudio /o\
[19:24]  * bigcalm slithers in and hugs Ubuntu
[19:24] <AlanBell> it is fixed now surely
[19:24] <bigcalm> System seems to be playing ball this evening so far.
[19:25] <bigcalm> When loading an app in unity, is is possible to tell it which of my 3 screens it should start on?
[19:27] <Azelphur> Anyone here who's good at VOIP, is it somehow possible to map my own domain to call me, without running my own VOIP server?
[19:27] <Azelphur> maybe SRV records or something?
[19:28] <BigRedS> yeah, voip uses srv records
[19:28] <BigRedS> so you'd set up voip srv records pointing at whoever provides your voip
[19:28] <BigRedS> they should tell you what they should be
[19:28] <Azelphur> that's sweet :o
[19:29] <Azelphur> I'm with sipgate.co.uk
[19:29] <AlanBell> just updated offspring computers running 12.10, wondering if 13.04 will be a performance boost for them
[19:29] <BigRedS> the record is something like _sip._tcp.domain , but I can never remember.
[19:29] <BigRedS> 13.04 was just a massive pile of crashes for me
[19:31] <penguin42> AlanBell: My boot time on 13.04 is much better than 12.10 was
[19:32] <penguin42> AlanBell: It also looks like 13.04 has just switched to low latency kernels that should be intersting
[19:32] <AlanBell> I am running 13.04 with no drama on my laptop, but that is a core i3 with 8GB ram and SSD. The kids have atom class computers with 1 or 2GB and spinning rust disks
[19:33] <penguin42> AlanBell: Nod, I do worry that sometimes devs only test for SSD speed these days; but the ARM stuff has got to help for running in reduced RAM/speed CPUs
[19:35] <AlanBell> I might have to get my eldest a new computer running windows and office and publisher :(
[19:35] <penguin42> :-(
[19:35] <penguin42> why publisher?
[19:35] <AlanBell> apparently she is about to get her school report which will ask her to use the same software at home as at school
[19:36] <penguin42> yeuch
[19:36]  * AlanBell will be blogging that bit of the report if it turns out to be the case
[19:37] <DJones> AlanBell: Do they provide the Windows & Office suite for free?
[19:38] <dwatkins> my concern with this is that not knowing Windows applications might be a disadvantage, even though understanding the principles behind word processing etc. is obviously more useful
[19:38] <AlanBell> nope, and it seems student version of windows 8 and office is £170 on top of the laptop price
[19:39] <dwatkins> there was a scheme in Berkshire a couple years ago where a child could get a laptop and a year's worth of 3G internet for free.
[19:39] <AlanBell> so £499 for a random laptop with office home & student and windows 8 then on top of that it will need virus junk because it is a windows computer
[19:39] <AlanBell> oh and publisher
[19:40] <DJones> Thats pretty poor from the school
[19:40] <AlanBell> which is another £100
[19:40] <dwatkins> is there an online version?
[19:40] <dwatkins> kinda like google docs
[19:40] <penguin42> office365?
[19:41] <AlanBell> dunno, that is the other sucky thing, I know nothing about this stuff
[19:41] <AlanBell> anyhow, I will wait for the report
[19:41] <penguin42> AlanBell: It would be an interesting task to make sure that capability/compatibility issues are filed against Libreoffice/etc - it's sometimes interesting to see what's still missing
[19:42] <AlanBell> most homework these days consists of downloading pictures from the internet (with no attribution or consideration for content licensing, they don't teach that) and adding captions and text around them
[19:42] <dwatkins> the kids will get a shock when they get to uni and all their work is checked for copying
[19:42] <dwatkins> automatically
[19:43] <AlanBell> yeah, it is totally bogus
[19:43] <AlanBell> they are not allowed to use wikipedia (which I consider a perfectly valid starting point) but they can copy crap from any other random website without peer review
[19:43] <dwatkins> lolwut
[19:44] <dwatkins> that's completely topsy-turvy
[19:44] <AlanBell> yeah, education has a bit of a problem with wikipedia, it is considered a bad source because they don't understand how it works
[19:45] <dwatkins> I admit I'm not sure how articles are checked or what happens in terms of people defacing them.
[19:45] <bigcalm> AlanBell: have you considered home schooling? ;)
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> you use wikipedia to find proper sources, right? :)
[19:45] <dwatkins> I do know that it tends to be fairly accurate, however.
[19:45] <AlanBell> they get fixed within seconds
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> they're at the bottom
[19:45] <AlanBell> yeah, I know how to use wikipedia :)
[19:45] <dwatkins> and as MartijnVdS says, sources are cited, as they should be in any homework/paper/thesis
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: time to educate some educators
[19:46] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I am looking forward to blogging about the situation
[19:46] <popey> Evening!
[19:46] <AlanBell> but then I will probably have to just spend the £600
[19:46] <AlanBell> and then spend it again for the other two \o/
[19:46] <dwatkins> AlanBell: presumably they think that experience with MS Publisher would be to the kids' advantage.
[19:47] <dwatkins> never used it myself, and I can use most word processors easily enough without spending an hour reading the documentation (apart from LaTeX perhaps)
[19:47] <bigcalm> Good evening popey
[19:48] <AlanBell> they might well do. I have never ever ever seen anyone use it since about publisher for windows 95
[19:48] <popey> Nobody uses publisher outside education and church newsletters
[19:48] <czajkowski> I know some people who home school, but honestly I think it's gonna do kids a disadvantage of not learning how to socialise at an early start
[19:48] <dwatkins> indeed - I used some GEM-based publishing package in the early 1990s, havn't touched a similar application since. I suspect publishing houses either have their own, or use normal word processing apps.
[19:48] <AlanBell> yeah, I am not home schooling
[19:49] <popey> i dont think the kids at our school get told what to use at home
[19:49] <popey> i know at least one kid uses a chromebook, so google docs
[19:49] <popey> clare gets sent email from it
[19:49] <dwatkins> much more sensible approach
[19:49] <czajkowski> anyone on 13.04 can you please go to the login screen and click on shut down - does it actually shut down
[19:49] <AlanBell> I was going to get my younger daughter a chromebook when they do the next ARM one
[19:49] <dwatkins> use whatever software you have, so long as the end result is appropriate
[19:50] <AlanBell> indeed
[19:50] <popey> it would be like mandating the make and model of pen and paper they are told to use
[19:50] <AlanBell> exactly
[19:50] <ahayzen> popey, they have tried tht in some schools aswell ;)
[19:50] <czajkowski> popey: ah see we had the pen and paper in primary school, especially for joined up writing to teach us
[19:50] <dwatkins> the class below me complained they were told to get a specific graphical calculator, as they were quite expensive
[19:51] <czajkowski> had to write within the blue lines and then go to the top and bottom red lines for some letters
[19:51] <dwatkins> not sure what the end result was, mind
[19:51] <Azelphur> hmm, Ekiga 4.0 doesn't seem to work too well, no matter what I do with it I get a "Transport error"
[19:51] <popey> well, for my kids age, yes pencil/paper
[19:51] <AlanBell> we did have to get a specific scientific calculator, but it was £7.95
[19:51] <popey> but clare teaches 15 year olds
[19:51] <czajkowski> hows the arm doing?
[19:52] <popey> 1 week left!
[19:52] <AlanBell> and they do specify a uniform supplier
[19:52] <czajkowski> popey: \o/
[19:52] <AlanBell> so schools can and do endorse specific businesses and require parents to spend money there
[19:52] <popey> yeah, we have to get uniforms from a shop in reading
[19:52] <czajkowski> hmmm wonder if i cant shut down as I've signed into guest ac
[19:52] <czajkowski> this is baffling me today
[19:53] <popey> "cant shut down" has been a bug for years on and off
[19:54] <AlanBell> but it just irritates me a bit that my kids each have their own computers running lots of software and can do everything that I do in my daily job, but the school apparently wants me to throw that away and spend £1800 (when all three get there) on computers that do less.
[19:54] <AlanBell> or have them all share one computer or something
[19:54] <AlanBell> and fight over who gets to do homework on it at specific times, so that doesn't really work
[19:54] <czajkowski> popey: ahh
[19:55] <AlanBell> "doesn't suspend" is another irritating bug
[19:55] <AlanBell> I really really really want there to be a non-negotiable suspend
[19:55] <popey> windows "doesn't suspend" for me
[19:56] <diplo> Evening all
[19:56] <bigcalm> popey: I think it was when you retweeted me that my popularity exploded :) Amusing that even omgubuntu retweeted me as well
[19:56] <bigcalm> Morning diplo
[19:57] <dwatkins> suspend can be stopped by an application? wow
[19:57] <popey> sweet!
[19:57] <popey> sophie was doing ballet today, so I had a few hours afk which was nice
[19:58] <bigcalm> Once I gave in and bought an ssd just for Ubuntu, 12.10 has been the best 'out of box' experience for me so far. Well done team :)
[19:59] <popey> oh excellent
[19:59] <popey> showed sophie how to add things to hers (and mine and mummys) calendar today
[19:59] <popey> I expect lots of things to get added soon
[19:59] <dwatkins> same here, my netbook flies along with an SSD in it, nice one :)
[20:00] <ali1234> i have never seen any computer suspend reliably except for macs
[20:00] <popey> wifeys mbp refused to suspend recently
[20:01] <popey> known issue apparently
[20:01] <popey> i think it's steam stopping windows suspending for me
[20:01] <ali1234> phones seem to be able to do it
[20:02] <popey> \o/ Ubuntu Phone can!
[20:02] <ali1234> i find it funny that all the companies jumping on the "mobile" bandwagon put lots of effort into redesigning the UI but don't fix things like making suspend work
[20:02] <popey> battery life on ubuntu phone is (surprisingly - hah) good!
[20:02] <ali1234> yeeeaaaah i'll believe that when i see it
[20:03] <popey> meh, I don't care
[20:03] <diplo> popey: Running one, or just from info ?
[20:03] <popey> I've seen it, that's good enough for my eyeballs
[20:03] <bigcalm> :)
[20:03] <popey> it's an android kernel, so hardly surprising ☺
[20:04] <bigcalm> Who has run off with my ps2 to usb adapter? I want to use my unicomp keyboard!
[20:04] <popey> i dont think we've got application suspending nailed yet, that's "to do"
[20:05] <BigRedS> ali1234: it's like the desktop. All the hard problems get ignored while the solutions to the easy ones are rewritten
[20:05] <ali1234> BigRedS: yes, exactly
[20:05] <BigRedS> And, just as New Thing is ready enough that the hard problems can be worked on, we need a New New Thing
[20:06] <popey> oh I dunno, sound seems not to have been re-written for a while, since pulse came along
[20:06] <popey> x badly needs replacing
[20:06] <BigRedS> yeah, that's why we keep getting new DEs isn't it?
[20:07] <BigRedS> gnome 2 didn't *need* replacing. It just needed finishing
[20:07] <BigRedS> And now gnome 3 and Unity need finishing
[20:07] <popey> gnome 2 didnt need replacing for some users
[20:07] <BigRedS> which doesn't sound hugely like progress
[20:08] <popey> not sure how well gnome 2 works on phones / tablets
[20:08] <popey> and TVs
[20:08] <ali1234> please stop calling it gnome 2
[20:08] <ali1234> it's actually called gnome-panel
[20:09] <ali1234> and it works on gnome 3
[20:09] <BigRedS> yeah, so now we've new DEs that are as bad there as they are on the desktops? There's still a load of daft problems either in Unity or Gnome or in whatever underlying thing they share
[20:09] <BigRedS> like NetworkManager, as I keep ranting about :)
[20:10] <popey> you know what people mean when they say "gnome 2"
[20:10] <ali1234> what's wrong with NM? i love it
[20:10] <popey> "the two panel interface which people know when someone says gnome 2"
[20:10] <popey> +1 on NM
[20:10] <ali1234> it does everything and it just works
[20:10] <popey> not perfect but good
[20:10] <ali1234> VPNs, connection sharing...
[20:10] <popey> not good for phones
[20:10]  * AlanBell hugs gnome shell
[20:10] <ali1234> all that stuff was a right pain before
[20:11] <BigRedS> I think if I could tell it that I only wanted it to ever do anything with my WiFi interface it'd be okay
[20:11] <BigRedS> but it keeps breaking other things
[20:11] <ali1234> you can tell it that
[20:11] <BigRedS> no you can't
[20:11] <ali1234> you can specify to ignore interfaces
[20:11] <ali1234> and it will
[20:11] <BigRedS> you can tell it which devices to not interfere with, but not which ones to interfere with
[20:11] <AlanBell> Unity might work kind of well on a phone where you don't want lots of applications running
[20:12] <AlanBell> or lot of windows of one application
[20:12] <ali1234> why is that a prblem though? just tell it about all of your devices
[20:12] <BigRedS> my last problem was with virt-manager which didn't seem to have a predictable mac for its bridge
[20:12] <AlanBell> dunno if gnome-shell is supposed to work on mobile devices
[20:12] <ali1234> ah yes, if you have randomly changing macs NM does not work well at all
[20:13] <popey> moving from WWAN to LAN and back seamlessly doesn't work either
[20:13] <ali1234> how could it?
[20:13] <BigRedS> I've also never worked out how to make it stop overwriting resolvconf changes. I want the same search domains whatever network I'm on, but it always switces back
[20:13] <popey> which i think is one reason why connman exists, and the personality causes flimflam to exist
[20:13] <BigRedS> how could it work with randomly changing macs? I want to give it a list of macs that it should care about and have it ignore the rest
[20:14] <ali1234> no i mean how could it seamlessly switch from WWAN to LAN?
[20:14] <BigRedS> I only ever use it to connect to a wifi network, I don't want it pissing around with anything else, especially since when I do have anything else it's not something I've done in nm
[20:14] <BigRedS> oh, good
[20:14] <ali1234> that's going to cause all your connections to drop no matter what
[20:15] <diplo> Only issue I have with NM is when I'm using a vpn, the routing vpn gateway switch doesn't work
[20:18] <popey> \o/ hot baguettes & pate for tea
[20:18] <bigcalm> Nom
[20:22]  * AlanBell has irish brown bread with marmalade on it for tea
[20:22]  * AlanBell is thinking about not using a CMS for exceptionalemails.com
[20:22] <AlanBell> writing the UI in python and html
[20:23] <AlanBell> and writing my own paypal subscription integration later
[20:23] <BigRedS> you're all about reinventing the wheel :)
[20:23] <BigRedS> but, yeah, a CMS does seem like massive overkill just to get user auth
[20:23] <popey> i wouldn't do paypal if I were you
[20:23] <AlanBell> well yeah but it is so much easier!
[20:24] <popey> I'd use stripe, ribbon or gumroad
[20:24] <AlanBell> doing the smtpd in python was much easier than using exim
[20:24] <daubers> AlanBell: Just use django? it has inbuilt user auth stuffs too
[20:24] <AlanBell> django is a possibility
[20:25] <AlanBell> popey: thanks for those suggestions, stripe looks good
[20:25] <AlanBell> never heard of any of them before
[20:26] <ali1234> use bitcoins
[20:26] <AlanBell> yeah, happy to accept bitcoin
[20:26] <ali1234> use django if you don't want to use a cms
[20:27] <ali1234> definitely don't use drupal since it gives you all the hassles of a cms with none of the features
[20:28] <AlanBell> initially it is going to be a free service for a beta period, but I want to design in chargable subscriptions for later
[20:33] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what about security of emails being stored on the server?
[20:34] <AlanBell> they are pretty secure
[20:34] <AlanBell> and I have various purging options
[20:36] <AlanBell> so I can drop the body from the database as soon as it arrives for example, just search it for the regex the user wants to search for, like must not contain "failed" and if it is OK, drop the body
[20:36] <AlanBell> if it is a failure, notify and keep the body
[20:36] <BigRedS> mail_location = /dev/null/%d/%u
[20:36] <AlanBell> or people can choose to keep all the emails in full if they want
[20:38] <AlanBell> I will be advising people not to send emails with their IP address and passwords and file names and to generally think about what they are sending
[20:48] <AlanBell> !info python-django
[20:49]  * AlanBell ponders versions of things
[20:50] <AlanBell> 1.6 is the new hotness, we have 1.3 in precise, 1.4.1 in quantal and 1.4.3 in raring
[20:51] <BigRedS> Do you need anything in 1.6 that's not in 1.3?
[20:52] <AlanBell> well 1.3 is the flat layout and 1.4+ isn't
[20:52] <AlanBell> it creates a subdirectory under manage.py
[20:54]  * AlanBell decides to develop on raring
[21:01] <zleap> ah 13.04
[21:01] <zleap> the one we wanted to call rampent rabbit
[21:08] <AlanBell> yeah, that one
[21:08] <AlanBell> django seems about right, I haven't done a django project from scratch before, just patched existing ones
[21:09] <AlanBell> it is fairly raw to the database which is what I need
[21:15] <ali1234> django isn't much more than an ORM and MVC templates framework
[21:21] <AlanBell> yeah, I disliked it a lot when working on summit and loco directory but I like it for this
[21:22] <AlanBell> for those things I really didn't want to give a toss about schema changes, it made me too aware of the database for a CMS application
[21:32] <AlanBell> django is nice because I can write directly to the database from other applications without being too scared about doing so
[21:54] <ali1234> you dont need to though: there's no reason not to use django orm from a command line app
[21:54] <ali1234> and it makes writing command line admin scripts really easy
[21:57] <bigcalm> Is it possible to specify which workspace and monitor an app should appear on when loaded?
[22:01] <bigcalm> popey or AlanBell ^^ ?
[22:04] <redtape-renegade> Apparently Ubuntu doesn't update it's tweet button [0] on the Ubuntu for Android homepage | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android | with a simple search .. you can see many have tweeted the message :  https://twitter.com/search?q=%23U4A&src=typd
[22:04] <redtape-renegade> #U4A -1
[22:06] <redtape-renegade> How do I file a bug for that ?
[22:11] <Laney> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
[22:11] <redtape-renegade> opening....
[22:12] <AlanBell> ali1234: ooh, interesting point, I probably should do that
[22:13] <AlanBell> bigcalm: I have no idea
[22:13] <bigcalm> AlanBell: ta
[22:15] <bigcalm> Multimedia keyboard, can I tie the music controls to Spotify? :)
[22:20] <ali1234> bigcalm: you can with unity webapps and experimental spotify web interface, if that's still a thing
[22:20] <ali1234> you might have to program it all yourself though
[22:21] <mgdm> bigcalm: spotify speaks dbus, so I'm sure it's possible
[22:21] <mgdm> I've thought about it but not had enough round tuits yet
[22:40] <redtape-renegade> Bug #1128460
[22:59] <ali1234> hmm regarding the aaron seigo post, do we know that ubuntu phone actually uses QML for the unity parts?
[23:00] <ali1234> it could be just the developer API, with unity using something else
[23:02] <ali1234> where smething else == libnux on libhybris/surface flinger


[11:20] <Saviq> hmm if I only get a "application/json representation of a resource", how do I load it up in launchpadlib?
[11:23] <Saviq> Launchpad.load() seems to be what I want, but I can't get it to work
[11:23] <cjwatson> Saviq: That takes a URL
[11:24] <cjwatson> Saviq: What code is giving you the representation?
[11:24] <cjwatson> Or what method?
[11:24] <Saviq> cjwatson: snaps.getByName
[11:25] <Saviq> and then I want to get at the builds for the snap
[11:25] <cjwatson> Saviq: If you call that in launchpadlib then launchpadlib should automatically turn the response into an object for you
[11:25] <cjwatson> The API docs describe the low-level behaviour of the webservice, but launchpadlib wraps that up
[11:26] <Saviq> ah duh
[11:26] <Saviq> I just need to drop the _collection_link
[11:26] <cjwatson> Right, indeed
[11:26] <Saviq> that threw me off, working now, thanks
[11:26] <cjwatson> If for some reason you just have a representation then you can generally do lp.load(representation["self_link"]), but you shouldn't normally end up in that situation
[11:26] <Saviq> ack
[11:27] <cjwatson> (and that incurs an extra request)
[11:32] <Saviq> cjwatson: snap_build.getFileUrls is the only way to get the snap version out of a snap_build?
[11:33] <cjwatson> version, or revision?
[11:33] <Saviq> cjwatson: version
[11:33] <Saviq> the version string
[11:34] <cjwatson> Right, that's basically just an informational thing in the manifest and LP doesn't extract it
[11:34] <Saviq> ack
[11:34] <cjwatson> Though if it's been uploaded to the store and the snap is currently in a channel then you can get it from the store
[11:35] <Saviq> right
[11:35] <cjwatson> $ curl -s -H 'X-Ubuntu-Series: 16' -H 'X-Ubuntu-Architecture: amd64' https://api.snapcraft.io/api/v1/snaps/details/core?channel=edge | jq -r .version
[11:35] <cjwatson> 16-2.34+git854.a46fd22
[11:35] <Saviq> thanks!
[12:58] <rbasak> Just me or has Launchpad git entered ago-slow?
[12:58] <rbasak> a go-slow
[12:58] <rbasak> clone is ~20 KiB/s.
[12:58] <rbasak> And a push of a tag took about 20 seconds earlier.
[13:10] <cjwatson> Doesn't seem that bad.  Receiving objects:   1% (16218/1275532), 3.23 MiB | 441.00 KiB/s
[13:10] <ahasenack> 12c15b64145b72fb22e47216f2608d9a
[13:10] <ahasenack> yeah, I'm getting timeout oopses
[13:10] <cjwatson> Though we really need to sort out sharding as it's never going to be very scalable the way it is
[13:11] <ahasenack> OOPS-12c15b64145b72fb22e47216f2608d9a might trigger the bot?
[13:11] <cjwatson> ahasenack: standard thing, try again in ten minutes
[13:11] <ahasenack> ok
[13:15] <rbasak> I'm getting 200 KiB/s now, for the same clone that continues (clamav). Got 160 MiB so far, and it continues.
[13:17] <ahasenack> clamav is huge
[13:17] <ahasenack> 600Mb+
[13:17] <rbasak> clone done
[13:17] <rbasak> 387M
[13:18] <ahasenack> I have some branches, maybe that
[13:18] <ahasenack> clamav$ du -hs .
[13:18] <ahasenack> 677M	.
[13:18] <rbasak> Maybe compressible?
[13:18] <rbasak> (repackable I guess)
[13:18] <ahasenack> what's that?
[13:18] <rbasak> I just pulled your branches. Still 387M :)
[13:19] <rbasak> Try a "git gc"
[13:19] <ahasenack> wow, what a difference
[13:19] <ahasenack> Total 34879 (delta 22646), reused 34343 (delta 22320)
[13:19] <ahasenack> and size dropped to 363M
[14:30] <juliank> cjwatson: btw, I fixed the problem with the missing tasks in the mega bug using the API. Just because there's no web UI does not mean I can't fix it :D
[14:31] <juliank> well, not sure how that was a btw
[14:31] <cjwatson> righto
[15:46] <Lord-Kamina> Hi. Are the keys missing from the keyserver going to be fixed anytime soon?
[16:20] <cjwatson> Lord-Kamina: there's ongoing work to deploy code that's more resilient to the poison-key attack that's been breaking everything, but I don't have a timescale
[16:22] <Lord-Kamina> Fair enough. Thanks for the update.
[20:13] <Saviq> wgrant: hey, if you could please have a look through this - see if everything makes sense for triggering snap builds on PPA changes - https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/460/files#diff-9fec837f222fb6be3b4cc47ae5e64b61
[20:13] <gitlab-bot> MirServer issue (Pull request) 460 in mir "[travis] process snaps in CI" (comments: 0) [No-Merge, Open]
[20:14] <Saviq> that is, if you have a couple minutes at some point
[22:58] <cjwatson> Saviq: please don't consider this a remotely complete review, but your TODO caught my eye: note that snap.pending_builds exists


[01:25] <sagaci> hey
[03:58] <sagaci> hi
[05:27] <head_victim> Gday sagaci
[05:27] <sagaci> what's happening
[05:28] <head_victim> Just submitted my first job application in about 15 years
[05:29] <head_victim> You?
[05:30] <sagaci> trying set up a blog
[05:31] <head_victim> I don't have enough stuff interesting to say to write a blog.
[05:31] <sagaci> neither do I but it'll fill in five minutes here and there
[05:32] <head_victim> I've often considered it so I could write up things I've done so if I need to do it again I have it online to check with
[05:32] <sagaci> and just "won" an opensuse t-shirt
[05:32] <head_victim> Haha yeah I saw that, not sure I'd fit a medium though and it's not my wife's style
[05:33] <sagaci> neither would I but I have a student interested in FLOSS that would appreciate it
[05:33] <head_victim> Ah fair call.
[05:34] <sagaci> in primary school, learning logo and python
[05:34] <sagaci> wish I had that kind of a brain back then
[05:34] <sagaci> not that I do now
[05:35] <head_victim> They'll be more developer skilled than I am :/ I just wish I had of realised I liked IT before I did a Psychology degree.
[05:36] <sagaci> yeah but I think there'd be a lot of crap you'd have to study for an IT degree
[05:36] <sagaci> take most of the fun out of it
[05:36] <head_victim> Yeah I would have done it though, would be better suited to jobs I'd enjoy more than I'm doing now
[05:37] <sagaci> i just took one of the units from the comp faculty. the Unix/Linux environment... took all the exercises and exams and tried to work through it
[05:39] <Phlosten> head_victim: you are not alone, there are huge amounts of uni graduates these days that end up working in entirely different industries
[05:40] <Phlosten> we make kids pick their careers far too early in life
[05:40] <head_victim> Phlosten: Oh I'm currently using my degree, that's not a problem, I just wish I could have done it combined with something IT so I could be where I want :D
[05:41] <Phlosten> and work experience placement does not seem to be valued as much anymore
[05:41] <head_victim> That's because we're all too money focussed
[05:42] <Phlosten> indeed, which is sad, because a fulfilling career is not just about money
[05:43] <sagaci> fulfilling career... rm -rf'ing the main server on your last day of work
[06:12] <Phlosten> firefox seems to crash a hell of a lot under Ubuntu, guessing it is most likely the Flash plugin, but still very annoying
[06:13] <head_victim> I keep crashing the pdf plugin
[06:13] <head_victim> Doesn't open the file, if I quit an dsave all tabs and then re open it works
[09:34] <head_victim> caryb & blahdeblah & any other Brisbanites - I'm in preliminary talks with someone who cold emailed me off the wiki I think. They are a student at a public high school and have floated the idea of Ubuntu-AU coming to do a talk. I have given them a few things to think about as to what they want from us but would you be interested in coming along for this sort of thing? Obviously date and time tbc.
[09:39] <blahdeblah> Where is it?
[09:41] <head_victim> blahdeblah: actually looks closer to caryb than you or I, Dakabin appears to be just past Kallangur and Petrie. Maybe I can see if jfer is interested as well.
[09:42] <head_victim> Although I'd be willing to carpool people if that were a better option
[09:42] <blahdeblah> Well, let me know what you come up with.  If it's a Friday i might be able to come.
[09:42] <head_victim> I've just put to them they need to decide what sort of information they want from us, I've suggested an installfest for the IT class
[09:43] <head_victim> I also need to know what suits them best, either after school, during school, or on the weekend.
[09:43] <head_victim> But I think it's too good an opportunity to turn down.
[10:18] <blahdeblah> head_victim: Absolutely.  If i can make it work, i will.
[10:22] <head_victim> blahdeblah: cool so if I'm trying to guide them to a timeframe fridays work for you? How about weekends or weeknights?
[10:39] <blahdeblah> head_victim: Some weeknights & Saturdays can work for me - just depends on how much notice i get.
[10:40] <head_victim> blahdeblah: no worries, I'm waiting for them to get back to me now just thought I'd get what sort of an idea I could so I could work out a time where more than just me can go
[10:40] <head_victim> I'm fine for talking and doing but when it comes to technical stuff I don't just know it off the top of my head, I need to look it up.
[10:50] <sagaci> hi
[10:56] <caryb> Jared, I can do that if you want. Dakabin is 15 mins from me
[10:57] <head_victim> caryb: sweet, figure if we have a team of 2 - 3 it will work great
[10:57] <caryb> no probs:-)
[10:58] <head_victim> Is there a "better" time of the week for you? Just if they start talking times and days I'd like to get a general feel of what does and doesn't work
[10:58] <caryb> 4th fri night of the month is out other than that is ok
[10:59] <caryb> I can do daytime during the week to
[10:59] <head_victim> Ok cool. Well if anything does eventuate I'll try to aim for probably a friday if possible, seems to suit us all as long as I don't have a shift on
[11:00] <caryb> I need to by a new Ubuntu polo shirt
[11:01] <caryb> would almost be better to get them made locally
[11:01] <head_victim> I think I would prefer one of the new branded ones as well
[11:05] <head_victim> It would be 30 bucks each if we both got one and combined postage
[11:05] <head_victim> Not sure it's much cheaper
[11:05] <head_victim> It's about 32 just for the shirt and postage
[11:06] <sagaci> the meerkat ones?
[11:06] <head_victim> Nah the polo's, like what I'm wearing in the open day photos but with the new branding logo
[11:07] <sagaci> got a link handy?
[11:07] <head_victim> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=648
[11:08] <sagaci> ah right, i'd rather one of them than the meerkat shirts
[11:08] <head_victim> Yeah, they don't date as easily, unless they change the branding again (which they did 2 months after my other polo arrived)
[11:09] <sagaci> i just prefer the plain look
[11:19] <caryb> thats the shirt
[11:19] <caryb> I don't a shirt alligned to a release
[11:20] <elky> I think the re-branding has been a much bigger thing than they expected, so I don't think it's something we'll see again for quite a while.
[11:20] <caryb>            ^ want
[11:22] <caryb> would be good to get one with the AU logo but that is not possible
[11:23] <elky> Sure it is. We're perfectly able to walk in to any embroidery and have it done.
[11:24] <caryb> do we get the official shirt & add our bit, or start from scratch elky?
[11:24] <head_victim> Is it acceptable to get the official ubuntu stuff embroidered as well?
[11:24] <caryb> great minds think alike.... Lol
[11:25] <head_victim> Haha, rivers have polo shirts for 4 bucks each atm..............
[11:25] <elky> So long as you're not using the logo for commercial purposes, you're entitled to get the official ubuntu logo too.
[11:25] <head_victim> Ah well, we should drum up an order on the list.
[11:25] <elky> Take in the shirt and plonk down two pdf files. I want that on that sleeve, and this on the other. Thanks!
[11:26] <sagaci> rankings on the shoulders
[11:26] <sagaci> ubuntu sergeant, ubuntu corporal
[11:26] <sagaci> no, not really
[11:27] <elky> head_victim, i'd be careful with that to be honest. It's not a cheap venture to get them done.
[11:27] <head_victim> elky: I was just think we could order what people pay for.
[11:28] <elky> yes, but this will involve taking money up front and hoping the people who paid have a reasonable concept of patience.
[11:28] <sagaci> get some decent fabric, i don't want it crapping up within a few washes
[11:28] <sagaci> 30-40 a shirt?
[11:28] <sagaci> probably easier to go via the official merch store, if enough people ordered
[11:28] <caryb> I myself prefer to buy through Canonical so they make some profit
[11:28] <elky> head_victim, using something like one of the online stores would be better.
[11:29] <elky> sagaci, you'll struggle to get them to make special things for you.
[11:29] <caryb> I have a vested interest in keeping them viable
[11:29] <sagaci> blahdeblah, shirt order from Canonical, viable?
[11:29] <elky> sagaci, you're talking polos, more than that for two pieces of embroidery on a small-run (less than hundreds)
[11:30] <sagaci> like little circle of friends logo, yeah
[11:30] <elky> sagaci, well these guys were talking about having the ubuntu-au dot-art logo too.
[11:30] <sagaci> ahh
[11:30] <sagaci> drives effort and price up
[11:31] <caryb> if someone is getting AU polo I'm interested
[11:31] <sagaci> just stick a business card on the pocket
[11:31] <sagaci> i'd prefer polo from ubuntu store
[11:32] <elky> head_victim, caryb there's also places like zazzle.com.au which can do stuff and post it for nil profit to yourself
[11:33] <elky> hence fitting the trademark guidelines
[11:33] <head_victim> I'm shooting an email to some people to see if it is viable.
[11:34] <sagaci> -au shirts?
[11:36] <caryb> Polos starting at:
[11:36] <caryb> $47.45
[11:37] <caryb> @ zazzle.com.au would be cheaper to get the Ubuntu one & add our logo
[11:37] <head_victim> I'll let you know what ballpark figure they come back with for 2 logos and supplying the shirt
[11:38] <blahdeblah> sagaci: I'm 0 for 1 with orders from the Canonical store, so asking me whether it's viable is probably not the best idea... ;-)
[11:38] <head_victim> Won't know until we ask I guess. If it's $50 I'm probably going to just buy a 30 dollar shirt from canonical and leave it at that
[11:39] <elky> geez, zazzle is not the way to go for embroidery. they insist on "converting" it. So the simple circle of friends logo will cost $66 to set up.
[11:39] <sagaci> rip off
[11:39] <elky> well i can see their logic, but yeah.
[11:40] <head_victim> Yeah to do it right isn't cheap
[11:40] <sagaci> i'll get two shirts from the canonical store
[11:40] <elky> head_victim, depends *how* really
[11:40] <head_victim> But I've emailed a local embroidery store and will see if it's worth persuing.
[11:40] <elky> head_victim, promo places are also an option.
[11:40] <head_victim> My wife suggested them (it's who they refer people to, she works at a quilting store)
[11:43] <head_victim> http://www.mtgravatt.embroidme.com.au/
[11:52] <elky> head_victim, http://www.printapromo.com.au/uniforms-and-clothing/custom-polo-shirts/mens-unisex seems to have sensible minimums
[11:52] <head_victim> Ah yeah the embroid me don't have a minimum numbe rjust no idea about pricing
[11:52] <head_victim> You can order just one if you want
[11:53] <elky> yeah, but if that one is $70, then they can go jump :P
[11:54] <head_victim> Yep but you have to email for a quote, I gave an indication of 10 - 20 shirts
[11:54] <head_victim> ANd they're just up the road so organising it is easy :P
[11:58] <head_victim> They look like they use the same tshirt suppliers though. Gives us a good idea how much we should be looking at though
[12:05] <sagaci> are you hell-bent on getting -au shirts?
[12:05] <elky> head_victim, or how much they'll be ripping you off :P
[12:05] <elky> sagaci, yeah
[12:06] <head_victim> sagaci: not "hell-bent" but if I'm going to be buying a shirt anyway and it won't cost much more for an -AU one then why not is my theory
[12:06] <elky> I'm sure it'll be fine though, and local would be better than having to pay postage twice.
[12:06] <sagaci> yep
[12:06] <sagaci> i'd like to know the final design would look like
[12:07] <sagaci> but hard unless a prototype is made
[12:07] <head_victim> Well yeah that will be the next fig... I mean decision ;)
[12:08] <head_victim> I figure whoever organises it is probably most likely the one taking the final call on it as they'll be putting in the work
[20:04] <Fudge> good morning


[07:24] <diplo> Morning all
[07:32] <daubers> o/
[07:36] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[07:54] <diplo> morning brobostigon
[07:58] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[08:06]  * daubers is having many eye problems this mornin
[08:06] <daubers> g
[08:08] <diplo> And typing...
[08:08] <diplo> :P
[08:13] <czajkowski> everyone see my new pet project :) hackntalk.org/hello-world/
[08:20] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[08:24] <daubers> czajkowski: Interesting....... London based I assume?
[08:24] <czajkowski> daubers: anywhere I cna find a venue
[08:24] <czajkowski> I'm not fixed in London
[08:24] <czajkowski> as long as I can get to it to oversee it
[08:24] <czajkowski> I'm flexible :)
[08:25] <daubers> So somewhere on a direct train route from London then :p
[08:25] <daubers> czajkowski: Instant venue option.... since what you're talking about is a bit like hackspace open evenings (with the addition of a talk), ask the hackspaces for space :)
[08:26] <mattt> yeah
[08:26] <mattt> interesting, but kinda vague :)
[08:26] <czajkowski> daubers: nice idea
[08:26] <daubers> czajkowski: I'll chuck it out to the people at Reading this evening
[08:27] <czajkowski> daubers: thanks
[08:27] <czajkowski> just need it for one sautday 10-4/5
[08:27] <mattt> daubers: rdggeek was last night :(
[08:27] <czajkowski> 2 rooms ideally
[08:27] <czajkowski> one room for talks
[08:27] <czajkowski> 1 room for demo/hacking on stuff
[08:27] <czajkowski> or showing things off which is also a demo but you know what I mean
[08:27] <czajkowski> :)
[08:27] <daubers> mattt: I can't do that one, too much going on. Always try to get to the hackspace on a wednesday evening
[08:28] <daubers> czajkowski: Indeed! Reading hackspace is a bit small for that, but there are options. I'd suspect Bristol/London/Nottingham would be quite interested though
[08:28] <czajkowski> nods
[08:28] <czajkowski> but you get the idea
[08:28] <czajkowski> if you miss one
[08:28] <czajkowski> you cna cathc another on 4 months later
[08:29] <czajkowski> and not fel you have to wait a year :)
[08:29] <daubers> Yup.
[08:30] <mattt> the #rdggeek space isn't too bad
[08:30] <daubers> Copa?
[08:30] <mattt> they end up using the whole basement floor on a tuesday evening
[08:30] <mattt> yep
[08:30] <mattt> but i doubt you could get that for a while saturday :)
[08:43] <bootlfdhfrsa> Just in case Anyone wants a good book :: http://mad.ly/04f523?pact=12145030818&fe=1 HumbleIndieBundle
[08:46] <bootlfdhfrsa> AlanBell, Just wondering what was the wisdom behind your post on G+ this morning ... ??
[08:47] <bootlfdhfrsa> Oh, I see now .. I responded to your Post.
[08:50] <SuperMatt> only 8 days till quantal!
[08:50] <SuperMatt> I hope my t-shirt arrives before then
[08:55] <mattt> SuperMatt: i can make you a tshirt
[08:56] <mattt> SuperMatt: 1/2 price
[08:56] <SuperMatt> I can make my own t-shirt
[08:56]  * SuperMatt strokes his sewing machine
[08:56] <mattt> :)
[08:56]  * mattt has memories of the 'wan buy dvd' fonejacker skit
[08:59] <SuperMatt> I have never watched fonejacker
[08:59] <mattt> it's not really worth it
[08:59] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[08:59] <mattt> there are a handful of calls that are hilarious, the rest are rubbish
[08:59] <SuperMatt> I shan't bother with it
[09:00] <mattt> SuperMatt: this one's funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwwTFElMX7w
[09:01] <mattt> SuperMatt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe3cqLPhN-I
[09:02] <SuperMatt> I might have to watch those later, my boss just came in
[09:04] <gord> \o/ working from home, all the youtubes you can eat
[09:06] <mattt> gord: i'd be eating more than just youtube at home
[09:06]  * mattt would be triple x
[09:06] <SuperMatt> I *could* work from home
[09:07] <SuperMatt> maybe I need to set up some kind of vpn from my office to home
[09:07] <SuperMatt> my ip address always changes though :(
[09:23] <bootlfdhfrsa> AlanBell, You must be away from keyboard.
[09:24] <AlanBell> why is that then?
[09:34] <Myrtti> $timeofday
[09:35] <Myrtti> ho-hum
[10:01] <bootlfdhfrsa> AlanBell, Oh maybe you there.. I'm still discussing my earlier posts on goole plus .. see 09:43AM
[10:04] <bootlfdhfrsa> We're just wondering if the same thing could be done for the likes of the book that the Ubuntu Dev Team introduced to me this summer ( debian adminstrators handbook ) [ http://debian-handbook.info/ }
[10:13] <davmor2> morning all
[11:31]  * AlanBell has a new toy
[11:31] <AlanBell> motorised webcam \o/
[11:32] <kirrus> AlanBell: so.. are you gunna give us all access? ;)
[11:32] <AlanBell> sure :)
[11:32] <kirrus> \o/
[11:33] <AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:8080/index1.htm
[11:33] <AlanBell> operator/operator to control it
[11:33] <AlanBell> might have to enter it a few times, the admin interface is a bit rubbish
[11:33] <AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk/ view only mjpeg stream here
[11:34] <kirrus> awesome
[11:35] <kirrus> Well.. the controls don't work
[11:35] <kirrus> ;)
[11:35] <kirrus> At least for me!
[11:35] <kirrus> enough play time .. looks neat though
[11:36] <AlanBell> controls are a bit rubish over the WAN
[11:36] <kirrus> gunna see if you can put a better control interface on?
[11:36] <AlanBell> yeah, might do
[11:36] <AlanBell> I have been looking at the javascript from the UI, it kind of reloads a page on mousedown and mouseup which means it is rubbish for high latency
[11:37] <AlanBell> and the video stream is mjpeg which is a bit rubish for streaming, so I might use VLC to transcode it to something else
[11:42]  * AlanBell has sriracha in mushroom soup for lunch
[11:50] <diplo> Attention: Propose using 1024 * 768 screen resolution
[11:50] <diplo> :D
[11:50] <AlanBell> yeah!
[11:51] <diplo> How very early 00's
[11:51] <AlanBell> for £35 I am not going to complain about a bit of chinglish in the UI
[11:52]  * diplo gives up on trying to log in
[11:52] <diplo> I re-wrote front ends for Axis network cameras
[11:52] <diplo> into our company specific one
[11:54] <AlanBell> the mjpeg stream is behind basic auth so I can put http://guest:guest@mumble.libertus.co.uk:8080/videostream.cgi in an img tag to just have it display
[11:55] <diplo> yeah I did that on ours
[11:56] <Dave2> IT'S AM EMPTY CHAIR
[11:56] <AlanBell> I forwarded the port via SSH to our server in Germany
[11:56] <diplo> Most of ours were really quite old, but I had 36 cameras attached to a nas storing jpgs/mpegs
[11:56] <diplo> and scripts to convert jpgs to avi's if needed
[11:58] <davmor2> AlanBell: failed: exceed max clients. I'm amazed at how popular your new gadget has become :D
[11:58] <diplo> I want two network cameras for my network at home
[11:59] <diplo> front/read doors
[11:59] <AlanBell> davmor2: well I am tempted to write something to control it better and stream it better that should not have any limits
[11:59] <Dave2> no no, no no no no, no no no no, no no there's no limit
[12:00] <diplo> Got a link to the camera AlanBell, got me interested :)
[12:00] <AlanBell> also need to get it battery powered so I can put it in the chicken house
[12:00] <AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00432J56G
[12:00] <diplo> ta
[12:00] <AlanBell> found it using the shopping lens :)
[12:00] <diplo> hah
[12:00] <Dave2> is it R2D2?
[12:01] <diplo> ooh, defo interested now.. wireless and night vision
[12:01] <Dave2> You can control it anythere in the world.
[12:01] <diplo> hardest part would be getting power to them for me.
[12:01] <Dave2> "Spy Night Vision Girl Goggles"
[12:02] <Dave2> I think them being bright pink somewhat detracts from that
[12:02] <diplo> Dave2: Search for a axis network camera string in google, you can find 100's not set up correctly
[12:02] <Dave2> yeah
[12:02] <Dave2> it was more the "anythere"
[12:03] <Dave2> wait what, since when has Amazon done ads on other sites
[13:29] <arsen> has anyone ever developed a 'top'-like app to display various other information related to say.. my own application monitoring etc?
[13:32] <bigcalm> GAH!
[13:32] <bigcalm> I'm having an argument on the internet. I should be locked up for my own good
[13:33] <kirrus> arsen: theres like.. mytop and varnishtop
[13:45] <christel> hahaha
[13:47] <bigcalm> Ello christel my dear :)
[13:48] <christel> hi hi bigarguementative
[13:48] <bigcalm> :P
[13:48] <arsen> ok kirrus - ill google them, thanks :)
[13:48] <bigcalm> Am I going to have to put that in my highlight list now?
[13:49] <arsen> i just want a framework for developing a tool monitoring various key server stats/logs/etc
[13:49] <daubers> arsen: You want cacti or something like that then
[13:50] <daubers> (or just make it from scratch (tm))
[13:50] <arsen> yeah we already employ zabbix
[13:50] <arsen> but im more interested in a live view on-host
[13:50] <arsen> not that zabbix is great, but zabbix/cacti/nagios style monitoring is too slow for this purpose.
[14:02] <directhex> iotop!
[14:02] <directhex> nettop!
[14:03] <arsen> yeah but .. i want to do my own one :D
[14:03] <arsen> pulling in a combo of stuff, in one display.
[14:04] <arsen> namely tail a few logs, or even a 'watch -n1 wc -l' type thing, combined with top for certain processes, a multicast monitoring system etcetc
[14:04] <arsen> with colours and ASCII art. :D
[14:04] <arsen> ^ optional.
[15:25] <Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NrlIK_ArzeM
[17:30] <diplo> evening all
[17:41] <geekmeplease> Anyone here ever installed Matplotlib to OSX?
[17:42] <geekmeplease> See http://dpaste.com/812055/
[17:42] <MartijnVdS> While Ubuntu might look like OS X, it's not OS X :)
[17:43] <geekmeplease> MartijnVdS: Yes, I know, but I normally use Ubuntu, but I have now only OSX.
[17:43] <geekmeplease> * it is difficult for me to think in OSX
[17:43] <MartijnVdS> osxese
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> installing on OSX is either drag & drop from a .dmg into your "Applications" folder
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> or a double-click in the same .dmg to start an installer that does that for you
[17:44] <geekmeplease> Yes, but not when installing Matplotlib
[17:44] <geekmeplease> it is like in Ubuntu, but need to everything yourself
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> ah
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> macports? or whatever it's called these days
[17:44] <mgdm> go and look at either Homebrew or Macports instead?
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> that's what you're looking for, I think
[17:45] <mgdm> I prefer homebrew, personallu
[17:45] <geekmeplease> mgdm: Does not look promising: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12363557/matplotlib-install-failure-on-mac-osx-10-8-mountain-lion
[17:45] <geekmeplease> They have same problems in all those tools
[17:46] <mgdm> well, there's a sample size of one
[17:47] <geekmeplease> ok, I will try it
[17:48] <geekmeplease> I will just download the binaries and make and install it - a lot easier.
[17:50] <geekmeplease> * ok, no such process exists, and python setup.py install uses the same procedure as the first one
[18:29] <shauno> any suggestions for a more efficient alternative to dd?  (I want to dump a full disk, including boot block, fs labels, etc.  but it's a 40GB disk with 1GB of data, so it seems silly to dump 39GB of slack)
[18:33] <directhex> dump it where?
[18:33] <shauno> hopefully a different disk on the same system, but netcat as an alternative
[18:33] <shauno> (I'm not booted from the disk I'm trying to copy)
[18:34] <directhex> you could use http://www.bouncybouncy.net/programs/blocksync.py with a sparse 20G file as the target
[18:34] <shauno> just an awkward machine.  usb1 & 10meg ether, so trying to avoid moving all 40GB if I can
[18:35] <directhex> er, sparse 40G file as target
[18:35] <directhex> the point is it does a blockwise copy but md5sums at both ends to see if the data is the same or not and only copies if needed
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> isn't that like rsync?
[18:36] <ali1234> doesn't rsync only do whole files?
[18:36] <directhex> rsync isn't blockwise though, this is for shuffling lvm volumes around
[18:36] <ali1234> thing is
[18:36] <ali1234> dd | gzip would probably be just as efficient, if you just want to skip zeros
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> ah
[18:36] <ali1234> because you have to read it to know it's zeros
[18:37] <shauno> it's a 10yo disk, I can't promise slack space is zero'd
[18:37] <ali1234> hmm so you need something filesystem-aware?
[18:38] <shauno> it would be handy.  I'm considering just tar & gz and recreating the target volumes by hand  (I just need to match UUID & label, nothing fancy)
[18:40] <ali1234> i don't know of anything unfortunately
[18:43] <shauno> I think I'll just try gzip and find a movie to watch then
[18:44] <shauno> trying to move some redhat6 boxes into VMs while they're still bootable.  great fun
[19:04] <shauno> looks like the disk is going to end up being the bottleneck.  getting 500kB/s.  oh well.  I have until Monday :)
[19:56] <AlanBell> anyone know how to restream an mjpeg stream with ffmpeg
[19:59] <mgdm> 'restream' in what sense?
[19:59] <mgdm> as in play it out again over the network?
[19:59] <AlanBell> well I have an mjpeg stream from an IP camera
[20:00] <AlanBell> I want to restream that in a lighter format so that it can keep up
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> don't mjpeg cams just drop frames if you happen to be on a slow link?
[20:01] <mgdm> not sure about ffmpeg - you could look into mjpeg_streamer maybe, though
[20:01] <AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk/
[20:01] <AlanBell> that is the camera in night vision mode
[20:02] <AlanBell> it seems better now than it was earlier, it was just getting behind
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> can't it do h.264?
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> what kind of camera is it? (brand/model)
[20:05] <AlanBell> http://www.rewont.com/web/enProductshow-51.html tenvis  JPT3815w
[20:06] <AlanBell> the night vision thing is really good
[20:10] <AlanBell> and the firmware upload format is kind of simple, might be able to hack my own web interface onto it
[20:22] <popey> ooh thats good
[20:22] <popey> AlanBell, where did you get it? which specific one?
[20:23] <AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00432J56G
[20:32] <dwatkins> AlanBell: how much upload bandwidth do you have?
[20:32] <dwatkins> I ask because I have about 1 MBit and I'm wondering if I could stream something like a camera or not.
[20:37] <AlanBell> dwatkins: about 16mbit
[20:37] <AlanBell> but that is going over SSH to Germany and back
[20:37] <AlanBell> just cutting out that link at the moment
[20:42] <dwatkins> AlanBell: oh wow, quite a bit more than my home internet upload bandwidth :)
[20:43] <dwatkins> I'd like to do timelapse videos as well, but I'm guessing that's easy enough with wget and ffmpeg
[20:46] <chambs> Is anyone else unable to change to a custom colour scheme in gnome-terminal in 12.10b2?
[20:46] <chambs> I can select it from the dropdown, but none of the colours I've selected show up
[20:47] <chambs> Changes I make in gconf-editor also don't seem to have any effect
[20:48] <chambs> Ah ignore all that - fixed it
[20:49] <chambs> Can't do without zenburn :)
[20:58] <jonathonf> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/questions
[20:58] <jonathonf> hmph
[21:01] <popey> jonathonf, i think you're some way off with your G+ post
[21:02] <jonathonf> "tell us what you think is important and we’ll put your cash towards improving your favourite features"
[21:03] <jonathonf> i may be misreading that, but it seems as though feedback counts when it comes with money
[21:03] <popey> you are
[21:04] <jonathonf> so why not just a donate button?
[21:04] <jonathonf> donate if you want, vote if you want
[21:07] <AlanBell> top tip, get the default gateway setting right on devices you want to port forward through your router
[21:10]  * AlanBell wonders if canonical will provide a VAT receipt for these payments
[21:20] <jonathonf> ok, well, i can't say anything else without sounding a bit snarky (phrasing a criticism is difficult) so i'll just point out i don't think it looks good; it seems as though it's prioritising the needs of people with money which isn't what Ubuntu was supposed to be about.
[21:23] <ali1234> i like having a choice
[21:23] <ali1234> linux is all about choice you know
[21:24] <ali1234> my question is will canonical produce a report on where the money went, like wikipedia does, for example?
[21:24] <czajkowski> jonathonf: no it's a case of if folks want to donate great, and if you cant that's also fine
[21:24] <czajkowski> ali1234: yes I think there will be, how frequent or when I dn't know
[21:25] <czajkowski> *don't
[21:25] <ali1234> cool
[21:25]  * czajkowski goes back to sleep
[21:25] <AlanBell> is the Ubuntu Foundation involved in it?
[21:26] <christel> the donate button doesnt work!
[21:26] <christel> :o
[21:26] <czajkowski> unsure tbh. I thought it was Canonical doing it
[21:26] <czajkowski> perhaps jono would know ali1234
[21:26] <czajkowski> AlanBell^
[21:27] <jonathonf> oh it's being updated
[21:27] <jonathonf> THANK YOU!
[21:28] <jonathonf> "Or, alternatively, help out in the bug tracker ;)"
[21:28] <jonathonf> _that's_ what it needs
[21:30] <ali1234> so as a unity hater, do i donate to the desktop in the hopes it will get fixed, or do i donate nothing to it in the knowledge that it will just fund further disimprovements?
[21:31] <jonathonf> wait... it's a random title.. bah
[21:31] <ali1234> also, you need to get google checkout because i'm not touching paypal
[21:32] <AlanBell> !dvd
[21:32] <popey> AlanBell, no
[21:32] <popey> ali1234, yes, I already asked if they would add more payment providers
[21:33] <jonathonf> ali1234: i guess that could go under "better coordination with Debian and upstreams" ?
[21:33] <ali1234> jonathonf: nah, "better support for flavours" would be my choice, except that gnome isn't listed
[21:33] <ali1234> and if it was no doubt it would be gnome shell
[21:34] <ali1234> i heard that the gnome classic in ubuntu 12.04 is actually quite different to the upstream one
[21:34] <popey> i cant see gnome shell getting any love
[21:34] <ali1234> so i wonder who is maintaining that
[21:35] <jonathonf> ali1234: i switched from gnome-shell to cinnamon and haven't looked back
[21:36] <ali1234> cinnamon is gnome shell
[21:36] <ali1234> it has all the same problems
[21:37] <jonathonf> have to admit 1.6 is working well for me - what sort of problems?
[21:37] <ali1234> rubbish multimonitor support
[21:38] <jonathonf> how so rubbish? (not doubting you, wanting to know ;)
[21:39] <ali1234> can you put a panel on the second monitor?
[21:39] <ali1234> can you have multiple workspaces on the second monitor?
[21:39] <ali1234> can you even move the panels at all?
[21:40] <ali1234> can you use indicators with it? gnome terrible without them
[21:40] <jonathonf> 1) not a separate panel, but you can stretch them across both
[21:40] <ali1234> stretching them won't work, my monitors are different sizes
[21:41] <jonathonf> 2) Almost. There seems to be a bug with Expo
[21:41] <jonathonf> 2) cont. but it mostly works as multiple desktops
[21:41] <jonathonf> 3) top or bottom or both. not sides which is a bit limiting
[21:41] <jonathonf> 4) indicators, yes. full notification support.
[21:42] <ali1234> notifications aren't the same as indicators
[21:43] <jonathonf> indicators as in the new system tray whatsit?
[21:43] <ali1234> indicator-applet-complete
[21:43] <AlanBell> it is the new standard
[21:43] <AlanBell> now we have two standards \o/
[21:43] <ali1234> yes, but the old one is so bad that nobody should ever use it
[21:44] <ali1234> can i have a clock and a start menu and a "tray" on both monitors, without everything shuffling around all the time?
[21:45] <ali1234> oh and a volume control and messaging widget and networking widget
[21:46] <jonathonf> hmm... i thought i had an indicator-applet but maybe i don't...
[21:46] <ali1234> most of that simply doesn't work in vanilla gnome, in 2 because their whole applet system is broken for multimonitor and in shell because they've just given up on multimonitor and you can't have any panels or widgets on the second monitor at all
[21:46] <ali1234> but indicators fixed all that
[21:46] <shauno> if anyone's curious, a tool named 'zerofree' saved the day.  zeroes unused blocks on ext2/3, so I got the 40GB disk down to a 1.1GB gzip
[21:47] <ali1234> shauno: nice one. i was going to suggest just filling unused space with cat /dev/zero > filler but i figured hat would take just as long as cloning the full disk
[21:48] <jonathonf> shauno: if that's a vm disk image there's an application CloneVDI (free, runs in WINE) that will do the same as zerofree but also works for NTFS/FAT
[21:48] <shauno> zerofree took 12 minutes, then about 30 for dd|gzip.  before zerofree, it was looking closer to 25 hours (they're very underpowered machines, 700MHz VIA)
[21:49] <shauno> jonathonf: they're not yet, but should be by the end of the night :)
[21:51] <ali1234> jonathonf: this is what my desktop looks like https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/82D6UjGZh6L
[21:51] <ali1234> most of the things i like about it can't be reproduced in any other desktop
[21:52] <ali1234> the theme is ubuntu, the indicators are ubuntu...
[21:52] <popey> retro
[21:53] <ali1234> yes, it's still the best desktop i've ever used
[21:53] <ali1234> no other distro ever polished anything up this good
[21:55] <ali1234> popey: look, i was even considering making a tutorial video on how i did it back then...
[21:56] <ali1234> i should do it
[21:56] <popey> :)
[21:56] <popey> you should
[21:56] <ali1234> though the multimonitor stuff is kind of hard to do in a video
[21:56] <ali1234> the tricky part was recording the login screen
[21:57] <ali1234> someone asked a question about screenshotting the login screen recently, but not video
[21:57] <AlanBell> tripod+camera
[21:58] <ali1234> i've done it before, but it always sucks
[21:59] <ali1234> i could just edit it in
[21:59] <ali1234> or fake it with a vm
[22:01] <ali1234> or buy a HD capture card
[22:04] <popey> i have one of them
[22:04] <popey> black magick thing
[22:07] <ali1234> internal or external?
[22:07] <popey> both
[22:07] <ali1234> theinternal one has a usb port on the inside
[22:07] <popey> external usb vga capture
[22:07] <popey> and internal pcie one
[22:08] <ali1234> what's the usb port for?
[22:08] <popey> didnt know it had one
[22:08] <ali1234> http://www.jigsaw24.com/product-details/x627ana
[22:08] <ali1234> top left corner
[22:08] <ali1234> mini usb
[22:08] <popey> no idea
[22:08]  * popey gets it out of the box
[22:09] <ali1234> i would guess usermode firmware flashing
[22:09] <popey> " This port is for internal programming and will not be used by the customer in most cases."
[22:09] <ali1234> right-o
[22:09] <AlanBell> ooh
[22:10] <popey> we have used these to do some of the ubuntu promo videos
[22:10] <ali1234> what software does it use?
[22:10] <ali1234> v4l2?
[22:10] <popey> their own
[22:10] <popey> they have a kernel driver
[22:10] <ali1234> hmm
[22:10] <popey> and I think you can hook up to it with other apps like vlc
[22:10] <ali1234> that goes for both versions?
[22:10] <popey> but they ship their own desktop tool
[22:11] <popey> the external one I have isnt black magic
[22:11] <ali1234> ah ok
[22:11] <popey> http://www.epiphan.com/products/frame-grabbers/vga2usb/
[22:11] <popey> one of them
[22:11] <ali1234> i wouldn't really trust USB tbh... it would have to compress it a lot
[22:12] <ali1234> so i'd get the pci-e one anyway... but then i have to have another desktop PC
[22:12] <ali1234> not a laptop for example... but then a laptop probably couldn't handle the bandwidth anyway
[22:12] <ali1234> not any of mine at least
[22:14] <popey> any of you using thunderbird can you go to Tools -> Import and see if you can import mail?
[22:14] <popey> I get a blank screen in there making it impossible
[22:15] <ali1234> wfm, on 12.04
[22:16] <popey> what do you see after the "please select the type of file that you would like to import" screen?
[22:16] <ali1234> file?
[22:17] <popey> hmm, wonder what populates that
[22:17] <popey> its blank
[22:17] <ali1234> i see "seamonkey 2 or later"
[22:18] <popey> http://imgur.com/KfqWS
[22:19] <ali1234> http://i.imm.io/Hr0Y.png
[22:20] <ali1234> that's the first thing i see
[22:21] <popey> click mail
[22:21] <ali1234> ah yeah, blank
[22:21] <ali1234> presumably it wants a unix mailbox?
[22:21] <ali1234> or... i dunno
[22:25] <popey> yeah, I've used it in the long past
[22:30] <ali1234> http://i.imm.io/Hr42.png
[22:30] <ali1234> this is why i don't use thunderbird
[22:30] <Azelphur> lol
[22:31] <ali1234> it's not even correct
[22:31] <ali1234> i only have about 40000 unread emails
[22:31] <ali1234> it must be counting dupes where a message has two labels
[22:32] <Darael> In fairness to it, I've not encountered another client that correctly handled GMail labels over IMAP.
[22:34] <ali1234> i have. the mail app on android and the mail app on symbian
[22:34] <ali1234> both do a better job than thunderbird
[22:34] <ali1234> thunderbird is mostly ok though, after the initial 16 hour sync
[22:35] <Darael> Somewhat amusing, really, that mobile clients can do a better job of understanding labels than desktop ones.
[22:35] <ali1234> well the nokia/symbian one goes through a proxy
[22:36] <popey> Azelphur / directhex you on the steam beta?
[22:36] <Darael> And the Android GMail app isn't designed for arbitrary IMAP accounts, just GMail ones.  Unless th'art talking about some specific vendor one?
[22:36] <Azelphur> popey: it isn't out yet
[22:36] <Azelphur> they only have a private internal thing, no public members have it yet afaik
[22:40] <directhex> popey: :o no :(
[22:41] <popey> :(
[22:52] <directhex> popey: the steam beta is open now then?
[22:53] <popey> dunno, i thought some people were signed up
[23:05] <ali1234> hey does 12.04 server usually have a fancy coloured shell prompt?
[23:09] <Darael> Mine does, but I've deliberately got it set up that way, partly so I can tell I'm in zsh rather than bash.  My Precise server's bash prompt is without colour.
[23:10] <ali1234> probably a customization the hosts have done
[23:11] <ali1234> Darael: btw this might not have come through. i was talking about the gmail app but android 4.0 has a generic "email" app. it looks very similar to the gmail one.
[23:11] <ali1234> with the logos removed
[23:11] <ali1234> at least, cyanogen has it
[23:11] <ali1234> i didn't actually try it though
[23:12] <Darael> ali1234: Ah.  I've seen several vendor-specific ones but I've not played with ICS, cyanogen or otherwise.  Most of the vendor-produced ones follow the GMail one's style, which can be confusing...
[23:15] <ali1234> hmm thunderbird just said i have 170000 unread emails now
[23:44] <shauno> this VM migration isn't going so well :/  the resulting .vmdk doesn't have labels on the filesystems (and appears more partitions than the original)


[20:43] <_marx_> BugeyeD: just seeing this from email i haven't read in a week...
[20:43] <_marx_> http://www.meetup.com/Fablocker/
[20:43] <_marx_> hackerspace in winston
[21:47] <BugeyeD> _marx_: got that the other day too. never seen a makerbot before, would be interesting.
[22:18] <_marx_> yeah, i wanna check out the space too; for installfest er something location
[22:19] <_marx_> it's just up the street from the old morningdewcoffee location