[01:41] <Pharaoh_Atem> anyone have any idea what's causing this? http://fpaste.org/354429/46042524/
[01:44] <Pharaoh_Atem> this is the full log here: http://fpaste.org/354435/25442146/
[05:45] <pitti> cjwatson: hm, I'm getting hash sum mismatches in a container apt-get update again, was this disabled again?
[05:46] <pitti> cjwatson: indeed http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/by-hash/SHA256/ has nothing from today, latest update is from yesterday morning
[05:58] <infinity> pitti: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/binary-amd64/by-hash/SHA256/
[05:58] <infinity> pitti: That's up to date.  I'm not even sure what's meant to be in that top-level by-hash dir.
[05:59] <infinity> Oh.  Contents files, probably.
[05:59] <infinity> And those aren't updated more than once a day.
[05:59] <pitti> ah, thanks
[06:06] <cpaelzer> good morning
[06:22] <pitti> infinity: hm, I forgot which page I really mean instead of the outdated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseChecklist -- do you know?
[06:22] <pitti> infinity: I was wondering when to disable Launchpad crash reports in apport
[06:23] <infinity> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseProcess
[06:23] <infinity> pitti: It claims -7 days
[06:24] <pitti> ah, thanks; so on Thursday
[06:24] <infinity> pitti: Any time nowish would probably be fine.  Though, with the new NM having just landed, we might want to keep repots verbose for a bit.
[06:25] <pitti> I have another bug fix to go along with disabling LP reports
[06:26] <pitti> infinity: ok, so actually aiming for Thu might be good then, to give a few days for NM
[06:26] <pitti> infinity: oh, btw -- I promised that I'd do a fresh langpack upload on Friday evening, but it turns out I'll be AFK from Friday noon to about Saturday evening
[06:27] <infinity> pitti: Yeah.  I trust NM upstream as much as I trust stgraber to reach things on the top shelf.
[06:27] <pitti> rotfl
[06:27] <pitti> so, I'll cron the generation, but I can't self-accept them
[06:27] <pitti> or, if you are happy with an upload on Sunday, that would work for me
[06:27] <infinity> pitti: That's fine.  If they can magically end up in the queue somehow, I can get them.
[06:28] <infinity> pitti: Or Sunday.  Don't care that much, really.
[06:28] <infinity> pitti: I'm sure I'll spin a new set on Sunday when I land in London, and I'm equally sure we'll do another set during the week. :P
[06:28] <pitti> infinity: given that it requires an off-the-schedule export from LP via webops and I usually do a coarse diff review before uplaod, that actually sounds better then
[06:29] <pitti> infinity: ok, Sunday it is then
[06:37] <pitti> wgrant: so what do we need to do to arrange a full xenial langpack export on Friday? (I already ticked the "full export" box, but cron would only run on Sunday)
[06:37] <pitti> wgrant: can we pre-schedule this with an extra cron job? or should we do it live on Friday morning?
[06:39] <wgrant> pitti: Easiest to just manually kick it off on Friday.
[06:39] <pitti> wgrant: ack, thanks
[06:50] <dholbach> Could somebody take a look at snapd in NEW?
[06:52] <dholbach> (please :-))
[06:55] <dholbach> it'll build the ubuntu-snappy package from now on
[06:55] <dholbach> and is required for a milestone today
[07:00] <dholbach> brb
[07:14] <pitti> cyphermox: hm, latest NM drops the .upstart file, was that on purpose? now NM doesn't start any more under upstart
[07:15] <pitti> cyphermox: I noticed because "adt-run --testname cmdline-upstart-boot systemd" fails now
[07:15] <pitti> it still has a sysv init script, but it doesn't get enabled on package install apparently
[07:19] <infinity> mvo: If ubuntu-snappy and ubuntu-snappy-cli have both become snapd, how is snapd avoiding the same issues that you previously split the package to deal with?
[07:20] <infinity> mvo: Ahh, ubuntu-core-snapd-units?
[07:27] <pitti> cyphermox: filed/tracked as bug 1569204
[07:31] <andrewsh> hey guys, I'm having graphics issues on Ubuntu for the first time (previously I had them on Debian only), who should I prod: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtq4o4p0mxrgusf/2016-04-12_08-28-01.png?dl=0
[07:31] <andrewsh> that's Xenial, for the record
[07:40] <mvo> infinity: exactly
[08:00] <pitti> cyphermox: also, do you know why NM does not seem to log to syslog any more?
[08:38] <Mirv> TheMuso: since I would not want to start my core-dev career with a botched ubiquity upload, please consider reviewing and sponsoring https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/ubiquity/kubuntu_slideshow_i18n_lp1512834/+merge/291581 (debdiff https://launchpadlibrarian.net/253401826/ubiquity_2.21.54_2.21.55.diff.gz).
[08:39] <Mirv> TheMuso: it'd also be possible to do ./copy-package --from=~timo-jyrinki/ubuntu/grilo --from-suite=xenial --to=ubuntu --to-suite=xenial-proposed ubiquity if happy
[08:39] <Mirv> I got a confirmation it's working on another channel (and in the bug report)
[08:55] <dholbach> thanks to whoever reviewed snapd
[08:55] <dholbach> snapd is in binNEW now
[09:04] <infinity> dholbach: You're welcome, and now I should sleep.
[09:04]  * dholbach hugs infinity
[09:04] <dholbach> you're a hero
[09:04] <dholbach> mvo, ^
[09:35] <cjwatson> pitti: Do you have -oDebug::Acquire::http=true output?
[09:49]  * mvo hugs infinity
[10:00] <xnox> pitti, have you seen bug #1566465 ?
[10:00] <xnox> i'm not sure if that's a kernel or systemd bug.
[10:06] <ogra_> woah
[10:06] <ogra_> pitti, that last systemd update in trusty just turned my screen off
[10:07] <ogra_> (for about 30sec or so)
[10:07] <pitti> ogra_: bug 1473800
[10:08] <ogra_> heh
[10:08] <ogra_> didnt lock
[10:08] <pitti> ogra_: the fix was SRUed in the latest update, but it can only apply for any updates from now on, not for updates from previous versions *to* this one
[10:08] <pitti> well, same thing
[10:08] <pitti> X becoming confused when logind restarts
[10:08] <ogra_> yeah
[10:09] <ogra_> obviously my card then powers off the HDMI ports so that i get "no signal" on all three screens ... that was quite scary
[10:16] <pitti> xnox: I didn't yet, no; putting on list of things to look at
[10:17] <doko> jamespage, marcoceppi: python-libcharmstore doesn't have any copyright information except for the debian/copyright. Please could you add a LICENSE file, or add the license to the source files?
[10:17] <jamespage> doko, I referred to the committed LICENSE file in the upstream codebase - is that not sufficient to clarify the licensing?
[10:18] <doko> jamespage, but this file is not in the package which is sitting in NEW
[10:18] <jamespage> doko, yes that's why I added a comment to d/copyright...
[10:19] <doko> hmm
[10:19] <jamespage> doko, if you are not comfortable with that approach, I'll ask marcoceppi to make a new release...
[10:20] <pitti> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15783270/
[10:23] <cjwatson> pitti: Well, the URLs that your apt-cacher-ng is reporting as 404 do exist ... which exact package version of acng is that?
[10:23] <pitti> 0.8.9-1ubuntu1, shoudl be current xenial
[10:24] <cjwatson> I haven't actually directly confirmed that my fix to the built-in configuration works.
[10:24] <cjwatson> You could try putting "PfilePatternEx: /dists/.*/by-hash/.*" in acng.conf
[10:24] <pitti> I wonder what the "de.archive." things in the debug output are
[10:25] <pitti> maybe I have that mirror in some schroot config, and that's the one acng cached
[10:25] <cjwatson> That's acng's repository mapping
[10:25] <cjwatson> Surely it shouldn't be caching the 404 though
[10:25] <cjwatson> Hm, maybe it is
[10:25] <pitti> no, not that, but if it caches some de.archive.u.c. bits and pretends they are from archive.u.c. that migth cause some collisions without by-hash/ ?
[10:25] <doko> jamespage, ok, accepted
[10:26] <cjwatson> HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found
[10:26] <cjwatson> X-Original-Source: http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/source/by-hash/SHA256/8b81701065e3fa4957c5df3c6edc6a6f55301b7e20ac04d6a0aa19881b852320
[10:26] <cjwatson> That sure looks like negative caching to me
[10:27] <pitti> /var/cache/apt-cacher-ng/uburep/dists/xenial/main/source/by-hash/SHA256/*.head only has "200", no 404s, but maybe these are hidden somewhere
[10:28] <pitti> meh, I moved /var/cache/apt-cacher-ng/uburep/ away, restarted acng, and I still get teh 404 and de.archive.u.c.
[10:28] <pitti> where does this X-Original-Source come from..
[10:28] <cjwatson> pitti: Can you find 8b81701065e3fa4957c5df3c6edc6a6f55301b7e20ac04d6a0aa19881b852320 anywhere?
[10:29] <pitti> no, neither with find nor with grep
[10:29] <cjwatson> Or 6966a83abdd3fc2582ee280fa45561c6a6ffa1ca37cba6e891072a98e431ce66
[10:29] <pitti> also doesn't exist at all in the cache
[10:29] <cjwatson> Hmm
[10:29] <cjwatson> http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/universe/source/by-hash/SHA256/6966a83abdd3fc2582ee280fa45561c6a6ffa1ca37cba6e891072a98e431ce66 *is* 404
[10:30] <cjwatson> So maybe acng is configured to try de.archive in preference, and reports its 404 as if it were for archive
[10:30] <pitti> neither the  container nor my host use de.archive
[10:30] <pitti> yeah, some built-in mirror selection perhaps
[10:31] <cjwatson> de.archive is presumably in /etc/apt-cacher-ng/backends_ubuntu
[10:31] <pitti> ah yes, it is
[10:31] <cjwatson> This must be something to do with how the Remap-* stuff works, I think
[10:33] <pitti> and if I drop the de. from /etc/apt-cacher-ng/backends_ubuntu then everything works
[10:34] <pitti> cjwatson: many thanks for finding /etc/apt-cacher-ng/backends_ubuntu! I wasn't aware that it remaps mirrors like that
[10:34] <dholbach> pitti, do you have an idea why http://paste.ubuntu.com/15783673/ might come up in the autopkgtest of snapd for some arches and not for others?
[10:35] <pitti> dholbach: maybe ca-certificates is pre-installed in VMs but not containers
[10:35] <dholbach> pitti, ah, that might be
[10:35] <pitti> dholbach: armhf and s390x run in LXC; i386, amd64, and ppc64el run in scalingstack instances
[10:35] <pitti> so if pass/fail maps to these two sets of arches, that smells like a missing "ca-certifictes" test dep
[10:35] <dholbach> nice catch
[10:37] <dholbach> pitti, is this something which could be fixed in the infrastructure? should I file a bug?
[10:37] <pitti> dholbach: you mean cleaning up  ca-certificates from instances? yes, we could do that
[10:37] <pitti> except on lcy01, which still doesn't allow me to build custom images as that times out
[10:37] <pitti> so it can't be reliable
[10:37] <dholbach> oh... cleaning... I thought adding ;-)
[10:38] <dholbach> well, at least make the list of packages the same, if that's possible :)
[10:38] <pitti> dholbach: not entirely possible, as scalingstack instances need some more packages to actually boot/work than a container
[10:38] <pitti> we can approximate it, though
[10:38] <pitti> although cf. the lcy01 bug, we run tests on the (very fat) standard cloud images there
[10:39] <pitti> (RT has been pending for a few months)
[10:41] <cjwatson> pitti: I followed up to https://bugs.debian.org/819852 with a summary of this
[10:41] <cjwatson> (should appear in a couple of minutes)
[10:41] <pitti> cheers!
[10:49] <doko> xnox, infinity: is this post-release material? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/1564918
[10:50] <dholbach> pitti, ok
[10:52] <xnox> doko, infinity - last glibc upload was from before that bug was filed. It certainly is SRU candidate, if we don't take it in. There are more comments on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/1563784
[10:52] <xnox> the lock elision one is claimed to be critical.
[10:53] <xnox> maybe it's worth taking both in. At the moment I am strugling to find any benchmark that does show that lock elision is good. So far i get things that widely range from 0.5x - 3x in performance, on multiple reruns. I'm guessing lpar is busy elsewhere, and I'm not getting the CPU resources I think I am.
[11:39] <Son_Goku> anyone have any idea what’s causing this? http://fpaste.org/354429/46042524/
[12:01] <alex116> I am using the gadget-fs to create a serial interface to communicate over USB. When I test it with microcom, I have to restart microcom after disconnecting the USB port. In a c++ program, would this be the equivalent of closing the file descriptor from which I am reading and opening it again?
[12:01] <mdeslaur> @pilot in
[12:15]  * dholbach hugs mdeslaur
[12:15]  * mdeslaur hugs dholbach back
[12:39] <rbasak> Who should I talk to about akonadi's mysql backend and kubuntu?
[12:58] <rbasak> shadeslayer: around? Not sure who to ask.
[12:58] <shadeslayer> hi there
[12:58] <rbasak> I thought I had akokadi covered with the MySQL 5.7 transition, but just realised that it hardcodes dependencies on -5.6-.
[12:59] <shadeslayer> rbasak: I'm not really working on Kubuntu per se these days, but can have a look I guess, or maybe yofel
[12:59] <rbasak> mysql-server-core-5.6 specifically.
[12:59] <rbasak> I'd like to switch that to 5.7. I can do it, but I thought a heads-up was appropriate given the time we are in the cycle.
[13:00] <shadeslayer> right, best to tell yofel I think
[13:00] <yofel> rbasak: go ahead
[13:00] <rbasak> Thanks.
[13:00] <rbasak> I hope it has good test coverage!
[13:00] <yofel> I totally missed that because the upgrade went fine as virtual-mysql-server-core covered 5.7
[13:01] <rbasak> Also mysql-client-core-5.6 but I'm less concerned by that.
[13:01] <rbasak> yofel: ah so it's not actually using 5.6 right now?
[13:01] <rbasak> (we haven't deleted 5.6 yet - still getting through the reverse deps)
[13:01] <yofel> not on my machine, but I also run the full server, so that probably pulled 5.7 in
[13:02] <rbasak> OK
[13:02] <rbasak> I'll build and dep8 test locally first.
[13:02] <rbasak> Sorry about this. I've been following http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.xenial/rdepends/mysql-5.6/ and didn't realise that didn't cover the flavors until just now.
[13:04] <yofel> np. As I said, worst case the virtual dep would've covered 5.7, even if that's not why it's there originally
[13:05] <rbasak> yofel: my concern is any behaviour change by making it use 5.7 by default on the server.
[13:05] <rbasak> You can get 5.7 to work very similarly to 5.6 but some defaults have changed. Skuggen (upstream) can help us with that if needed.
[13:06] <yofel> hm... right
[13:09] <rbasak> superm1: ^^ the same applies to mythtv :-/
[13:34] <superm1> rbasak: what behavior change?
[13:34] <superm1> it seems that 5.7 is being pulled in fine in our ISO's right now for mythbuntu
[13:35] <superm1> and it sounds like upgrades will just keep 5.6 and not actually transition to 5.7 right?
[13:38] <Skuggen> If you  have mysql-server-5.6 and not mysql-server, yes
[13:40] <Skuggen> superm1: Some packages have had failures because 5.7 uses different default settings for sql modes, at least
[13:40] <Skuggen> Though the one I'm thinking of was a bunch of tests that more than anything seemed to be testing the server configuration
[13:41] <Skuggen> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/sql-mode.html#sql-mode-setting the first line lists the defaults now. In 5.6 it was only NO_ENGINE_SUBSTITUTION
[13:47] <cyphermox> pitti: it probably just doesn't log to syslog with the specific set of options you picked, but NM definitely does log to syslog
[13:59] <superm1> Skuggen: oh.. yeah mysql-server is what we had, so yes i guess that means upgrades will come up to 5.7
[13:59] <superm1> can you make mysql-server resolve to mysql-server-5.7 | mysql-server-5.6 to avoid that happening?
[14:06] <rbasak> superm1: we want to remove 5.6.
[14:06] <superm1> oh
[14:06] <superm1> so the hope is that 5.6->5.7 is a smooth transition then, i see
[14:06] <Skuggen> Yeah
[14:06] <rbasak> I'm fairly confident about the upgrade path for the data.
[14:06] <Skuggen> Mostly it should be, unless you rely on the old default behavior
[14:06] <rbasak> mysql_upgrade etc.
[14:07] <Skuggen> i.e. things like trunkating out-of-range values instead of throwing an error
[14:07] <Skuggen> Or auto-creating users that don't exist if you try to grant them privileges...
[14:07] <superm1> i don't think those two scenarios should affect myth stuff
[14:07] <rbasak> Yeah my concern was that 5.7 would refuse something previously permitted, causing things to break, etc. I don't expect anything subtle. I expect things to error out if it's not right.
[14:08] <rbasak> If you've been testing 5.7 already, then I think we'll be good.
[14:08] <superm1> OK
[14:08] <rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/neutron-vpnaas/+bug/1567899 is an example of the sort of thing we've seen
[14:09] <rbasak> Fixes are usually pretty straightforward.
[14:09] <rbasak> (so far)
[14:09] <rbasak> And we've touched quite a few packages now.
[14:13] <pitti> cyphermox: I picked the options that are in the upstart job, i. e. none
[14:14] <cyphermox> pitti: yeah, I figure, but that should have logged normally ;)
[14:38] <mitya57> Mirv, hi, I've committed a change to qtbase's ubuntu branch that backports upstream fix for tray icons on Xubuntu/Lubuntu.
[14:41] <mitya57> Mirv, are you planning a new upload before Xenial release? Or can I upload it on my own?
[14:41] <rbasak> cp: '/etc/localtime' and '/var/lib/schroot/chroots/xenial-amd64/etc/localtime' are the same file
[14:41] <rbasak> Anyone else seeing that with mk-sbuild on Xenial?
[14:44] <rbasak> mk-sbuild runs cp -a on /etc/localtime. In my case, they *point* to the same file.
[14:44]  * rbasak tries -P
[14:51] <rbasak> That worked.
[14:53] <dholbach> pitti, I'm trying to run snapd through a local autopkgtest to avoid uploading umpteen times due to missing test depends ... I tried both lxc and cloud image (following instructions from one of your last blog entries and from packaging.u.c): http://paste.ubuntu.com/15792347/ - both fail for me ... is there a known working way? or should I ask somebody else? :)
[14:55] <pitti> dholbach: lxd> do you have an "lco:" remote? the images.linuxcontainers.org image is now available by default as images: (and the latest autopkgtest also updated the documentation)
[14:55] <pitti> dholbach: please run --- lxd -d ... to enable debugging
[14:55] <dholbach> pitti, yep, I added that following https://www.piware.de/2015/12/whats-new-in-autopkgtest-lxd-maas-apt-pinning-and-more/ :)
[14:56] <pitti> dholbach: if you do "lxc launch lco:ubuntu/xenial/amd64 x1", does that work?
[14:56] <dholbach> error: Get http://unix.socket/1.0: dial unix /var/lib/lxd/unix.socket: connect: no such file or directory
[14:57] <pitti> dholbach: seems you don't actually have lxd installed?
[14:57] <dholbach> ouch sorry, it's been a long day already
[14:57] <dholbach> thanks pitti
[15:01] <mdeslaur> @pilot out
[15:11] <nacc> elbrus: ping
[15:15] <pitti> apw: hey Andy
[15:15] <pitti> apw: still remember bug 1531768?
[15:15] <pitti> apw: I have an instance with current xenial running for about two hours, chugging through a loop of tests, and so far it works fine
[15:15] <pitti> apw: TBH, I mainly tell you this in a public channel to coerce it to fail again :-)
[15:15] <apw> pitti, :)
[15:16] <pitti> but yeah, trying to trigger Murphy's law deliberately fails because of Murphy's law
[15:27] <smoser> cjwatson, sorry to bother. bug 1505839 you suggested yesterday gfxboot-theme-ubuntu as the likely source of the issue
[15:28] <smoser> but that package is unmodified from vivid (works) to wily (fails)
[15:28] <cjwatson> yes, I know.  syslinux/gfxboot/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu are tightly coupled though
[15:28] <cjwatson> I don't actually know what the problem is here, it would take hours of investigation to establish more and I don't have that time
[15:28] <smoser> ok. yeah. that makes sense then.
[15:28] <cjwatson> but in the past, it has sometimes been the case that changes to one of those required changes to others
[15:28] <smoser> thanks
[15:29] <cjwatson> it's not *necessarily* the case that a change to syslinux would require a change to one of the others; this is just an educated guess
[15:29] <smoser> yep
[15:29] <doko> finally, gcc-5-cross-ports migrated \o/
[15:34] <cjwatson> doko: ah yes, I was just going to tell you
[15:34] <cjwatson> infinity: ^-
[15:39] <Mirv> mitya57: hi. https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-046/+packages is landing soon first.
[15:39]  * Mirv notices lacks one git push
[15:41] <mitya57> Mirv, so after that mine is OK for upload? Or do you want me to go through the CI Train too?
[15:41] <Mirv> mitya57: ok, pushed, I think you could upload ubuntu8 directly too
[15:41] <Mirv> we're only doing the QA for the vivid+overlay 5.4.1 anyway
[15:41] <mitya57> ACK, will upload directly after that one lands
[15:41] <Mirv> so general smoketesting would be ok
[15:42] <mitya57> I've built that in my PPA, and some people tested the fix
[15:44] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: ping
[15:56] <rbasak> pitti: I'm getting an odd error with adt-run on a package that has a test that needs a built tree: dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot read ../akonadi_15.12.1-0ubuntu4.dsc: No such file or directory
[15:56] <rbasak> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15794227/
[15:56] <rbasak> Any ideas?
[15:58] <Mirv> mitya57: I mean, you could skip the wait for silo 046 upload ubuntu8 (or combine it into new ubuntu7) already to save time because freezes are so near.
[15:58] <pitti> rbasak: hmm, not off-hand; can you please file a bug with a reproducer? sorry, TB meeting now, then dinner
[15:58] <Mirv> mitya57: I would then only publish the vivid-overlay part of 046 when it's approved
[15:58] <rbasak> pitti: OK, np.
[15:58] <pitti> slangasek, kees, infinity, mdeslaur, stgraber: TB meeting reminder
[15:59] <mitya57> Mirv, ok, will combine with ubuntu7 then
[15:59]  * slangasek nods
[15:59] <mdeslaur> pitti: ack
[15:59] <highvoltage>  Ú;#Ú;/win 8
[16:00] <Unit193> That's a new take on it.
[16:01] <Mirv> mitya57: thanks
[16:05] <rbasak> pitti: bug 1569434
[16:05] <pitti> cheers
[16:10] <rbasak> pitti: quick question if you're able: what version of autopkgtest runs when I upload? I was about to Just Upload given that I can't easily locally test, but just thought that might cause issues in xenial-proposed perhaps?
[16:10] <pitti> rbasak: production just runs straight out of git, so usually git master or maybe a few commits behind
[16:11] <rbasak> OK thanks
[16:32] <Pharaoh_Atem> nacc: pong
[16:36] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: so i just took a look at the upstream PHP7.0 changelog ... while at least this one is arguably all bugfixes (http://php.net/ChangeLog-7.php) [I'd need to check on the hugepage chagne which seems a functional change and the libzip thing, although irrelevant to us, since we link to our libzip], looking at the upstream NEWS file (which maybe 7.0.6 or 7.1.0 depending on the upstream track,
[16:36] <nacc> aiui) http://git.php.net/?p=php-src.git;a=blob;f=NEWS;h=dfbc707d7abcddd2a13eba8df4d41508a211ca31;hb=HEAD, I get a bit more worried -- a few lines of "Implemented"
[16:37] <Pharaoh_Atem> they've already branched php7.0.6
[16:38] <nacc> so they have
[16:38] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: ok, so the 7.0.x will be selective backporting of bugfixes from the master?
[16:38] <Pharaoh_Atem> yes
[16:38] <Pharaoh_Atem> nacc: https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/PHP-7.0.6/NEWS
[16:38] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: i'm just trying to get some reassurance that will be true :)
[16:39] <Pharaoh_Atem> there's not much in the way of reassurance with the PHP people
[16:39] <Pharaoh_Atem> but the best I can say is that they seem to be following that model for now
[16:39] <nacc> right, but if i file a SRU request, I need to back it up somewhat -- otherwise I'm individually backporting stuff as bugs get filed in ubuntu
[16:40] <Pharaoh_Atem> git master is a scary place for LTS distros
[16:40] <Pharaoh_Atem> historically with the php versioning scheme, it follows a structure similar to Python
[16:41] <Pharaoh_Atem> where major.minor.patch is more or less supermajor.major.minor
[16:43] <Pharaoh_Atem> nacc: given we don't expect the supermajor to change for a while, the major version will largely be incremented for feature implementations, while the minor version is incremented for bugfixes
[16:44] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: ack, thanks
[16:45] <Pharaoh_Atem> If Ubuntu is okay with that for Python and Perl, I don't see why they aren't okay with it for PHP
[17:02] <rbasak> Pharaoh_Atem: PHP has a poor track record in this area.
[17:02] <Pharaoh_Atem> rbasak: *sigh*
[17:03] <rbasak> Pharaoh_Atem: historically, Ubuntu is OK with it only after a case has been made. I expect that it was made and accepted for Python and Perl if indeed it is done in Ubuntu.
[17:10] <rbasak> superm1: I uploaded mythtv ubuntu4 dropping the 5.6 deps. FYI, I think the "| mysql-server-5.7 | mariadb-server" is redundant (and for client too) since maria and mysql both agree in Debian to always provide virtual-mysql-{client,server} but I didn't change that - not my call and also probably a good idea to change as little as possible at this stage in the cycle.
[17:10] <superm1> rbasak: thanks for the heads up, the main reason everything was called out is that we use the same packaging on all distros in a backports PPA
[17:11] <superm1> that tracks upstream's stable -fixes branch
[17:11] <superm1> but i think virtual-mysql-server should still resolve that properly
[17:12] <rbasak> superm1: ah, OK. In that case you may have to wait until virtual-mysql-* appears in the oldest release to which you backport.
[17:12]  * rbasak isn't sure when that might be.
[17:12] <rbasak> That's the sort of the reason I had in mind for not touching it :)
[17:13] <rbasak> Actually
[17:13] <rbasak> I'm sorry.
[17:13] <rbasak> That upload probably wasn't needed at all in that case.
[17:13] <rbasak> It's an alternative. Sorry, my fault.
[17:38] <nacc> tsimonq2: just to be clear, do you mean the missing articles throughout the document? (the, a)?
[17:41] <tsimonq2> nacc: huh
[17:41] <tsimonq2> *huh?
[17:42] <nacc> tsimonq2: re: php7.0 serverguide review
[17:42] <tsimonq2> ohhhhh
[17:42] <nacc> tsimonq2: sorry :)
[17:42] <tsimonq2> no it's alright :)
[17:43] <tsimonq2> what specifically are you talking about? have you read my inline comments?
[17:43] <nacc> tsimonq2: yeah, the ones that all refer to l130 review, i'm just trying to understand what you meant :)
[17:44] <teward> nacc: i'm lost or i'd know what you and simon were talking about (saw 'php7.0' and 'serverguide')
[17:44] <tsimonq2> teward: he submitted an MP to the server guide
[17:44] <nacc> teward: i'm submitting a MP to fix up server guide
[17:44] <teward> links are nice
[17:44] <tsimonq2> relating to PHP
[17:44] <nacc> https://code.launchpad.net/~nacc/serverguide/php7.0/+merge/291655
[17:44] <tsimonq2> nacc: so basically what I meant was to keep it consistent when referring to the terminal
[17:45] <nacc> tsimonq2: you mentioned "weird wording" -- most of what i have found is missing "the"s or "a"s
[17:45] <nacc> tsimonq2: oh i see!
[17:45] <nacc> tsimonq2: is there a standard preferred way to refer to it?
[17:46] <teward> tsimonq2: there's a comment inbound from me
[17:46] <tsimonq2> nacc: I don't know anything specific, maybe you have an idea, but it just looked weird :)
[17:46] <tsimonq2> teward: alright :)
[17:46] <nacc> tsimonq2: ack ... i will at least make it consistent
[17:46] <tsimonq2> nacc: and it's not all line 130
[17:46] <tsimonq2> :)
[17:47] <nacc> teward: Pharaoh_Atem: we should also document fpm, no?
[17:47] <nacc> teward: and nginx and php?
[17:47] <teward> nacc: nginx will come later
[17:47] <nacc> teward: k
[17:47] <teward> we can probably add that later
[17:47] <teward> nacc: did you draft Release Notes items for php7.0?
[17:47] <nacc> tsimonq2: right, i just meant a bunch of comments (afaict) were "see l130" -- wanted to clarify that
[17:47] <nacc> teward: nope, on my todo for today
[17:47] <nacc> teward: having not done it before, do you have a pointer to where is tart?
[17:48] <nacc> *i start
[17:48] <teward> nacc: never had to write a release notes item in my entire Ubuntu-ness.  rbasak is my guide, i worked off his drafts for the HTTP/2 stuff
[17:48] <Pharaoh_Atem> nacc: well, we have php7.0-fpm configs available now
[17:48] <Pharaoh_Atem> so why not?
[17:48] <nacc> rbasak: --^ ? any pointers to where to start for php7.0 release notes?
[17:48] <teward> nacc: though, when you write it, it would be sufficient to make a note for php fpm that this breaks older nginx configurations, and need to be updated for PHP7.0 default paths.
[17:49] <teward> nacc: though if you feel comfortable linking to my blog, i"ll have something posted for it by Saturday
[17:49] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: care to write something up? and send a MP?
[17:49] <rbasak> nacc: maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes for style?
[17:49] <tsimonq2> teward: reiterating my point ;)
[17:49] <nacc> rbasak: thanks
[17:49] <rbasak> And similar URL scheme for previous releases.
[17:49] <teward> tsimonq2: actually, correcting your suggestion.
[17:49] <teward> tsimonq2: E:BadGrammar
[17:49] <rbasak> nacc: you can also edit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes directly.
[17:49] <rbasak> (which we'll do in the end when transferring from bugs anyway)
[17:49] <tsimonq2> teward: oh :P
[17:49] <teward> tsimonq2: switch PHP Apache for Apache PHP
[17:49] <tsimonq2> yep ack
[17:49] <Pharaoh_Atem> nacc: how exactly do I do this?
[17:49] <nacc> teward: ack
[17:50] <rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Server is blank right now :)
[17:50] <teward> lol
[17:50] <tsimonq2> ruh roh
[17:50] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
[17:50] <teward> rbasak: regarding release notes, did you see my notes on your bug for the HTTP/2 stuff under the release notes tracker on LP?
[17:50] <rbasak> teward: yes - no longer applicable to nginx, right?
[17:51] <teward> rbasak: correct - HTTP/2 is in Xenial
[17:51] <teward> as of 1.9.14
[17:51] <teward> and tested to confirm it works
[17:51] <rbasak> Great. Thanks!
[17:51] <teward> thanks to infinity asking for OpenSSL tests :P
[17:51] <teward> rbasak: you're welcome.
[17:51] <Pharaoh_Atem> nacc: atm I'm doing a wonderfully annoying set of merges and cleanups related to libvirt-php, but I may have something to contribute in relation to the server notes for php7
[17:51] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: luckily it's not tied to the release schedule, afaict
[17:51] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: so when/if you can
[17:52] <Pharaoh_Atem> certainly
[17:52] <nacc> Pharaoh_Atem: it seems like a nice-to-have documentation
[17:52] <Pharaoh_Atem> well, it's a good thing to have
[17:52] <Pharaoh_Atem> we want people not using mod_php7.0 as much as possible
[18:03] <nacc> teward: tsimonq2: do you think "enter the following at the terminal prompt" or "enter the following in the terminal prompt" is more correct? I use the former normally
[18:08] <rbasak> I'd say "at"
[18:09] <nacc> rbasak: ack, thanks
[18:16] <nacc> tsimonq2: can i push to the same branch to update the merge, or do i need to request a new merge?
[18:16] <nacc> with a corresponding new branch
[18:19] <teward> nacc: "at"
[18:19] <teward> nacc: BTW, nginx + php7.0 data at http://dark-net.net/?p=125
[18:19] <teward> i'll set up a 'nice link' when i'm not busy beating the Internet to death for being laggy
[18:19] <teward> that's also aggregated on Planet
[18:20] <teward> nacc: I strongly suspect people will want php5 back at some point - there's another post on that on my blog as well.
[18:20] <teward> (also Planet aggregated)
[18:20] <nacc> teward: ack, updated locally, pending an answer to my last question for a fresh MP
[18:20] <nacc> teward: they have trusty for that
[18:20] <teward> nacc: yes, but you know the people who 'must have the latest'
[18:20] <teward> >.>
[18:21] <nacc> teward: inasmuch as I don't know what "back" is in this context; there is no "back" :)
[18:21] <nacc> teward: as you suggest in the post, you can use a PPA, but then you're relying on the PPA's owner
[18:21] <teward> indeed
[18:21] <teward> nacc: i was just giving you an FYI
[18:21] <teward> no need to include it in release notes
[18:22] <teward> but linking to my post regarding the php7.0 transition, and updating existing sitei configs is still relevant
[18:22] <nacc> teward: ack, we know it's a potential issue, but well broadcasted (as much as I can) and ack on documentation links/needs
[18:22]  * teward just added the other post in order to make a note that if people get annoyed there is a non-supported solution)
[18:22] <teward> indeed.
[18:23] <nacc> teward: i'm also going to try and set up an env to test using lxd and/or adapt to just have xenial with appropriate redirection to trusty containers and host php5 + php7 at the same time, both in supporte environments
[18:23] <teward> rbasak: probably should add something for nginx about the php7.0 transition, though i'm tempted to leave that on nacc's section
[18:23] <teward> nacc: ah, cool, let me know how that goes :)
[18:23] <nacc> teward: it was rbasak's suggestion  (sort of)
[18:24] <teward> indeed
[18:28] <nacc> tsimonq2: fyi, the tabulation issue is inconsistency in the file itself (tabs vs. spaces)
[18:30] <teward> tsimonq2: add that to the list - "fix indentation inconsistencies"
[18:30] <teward> you've just given yourself that task :P
[18:31] <nacc> teward: do you know the answer to my prior question? should i push to the same branch and will lp handle that properly or should i send a new MP with a new branch?
[18:32] <teward> nacc: i didn't see that question.  #launchpad may be able to help?
[18:32] <nacc> teward: np, good point
[18:44] <teward> nacc: does libapache2-mod-php exist as an installable object in Xenial?
[18:44] <nacc> teward: yes, it's a virtual pkg that depends on libapache2-mod-php7.0
[18:44] <nacc> teward: the ubuntu/debian preference going fwd is to use unversioned metapacakges
[18:44] <teward> nacc: ack
[18:47] <teward> nacc: I don't have merge powers, not sure why i'm on the approvers list on this one
[18:47] <nacc> teward: just wanted you to review
[18:47] <nacc> teward: as you already reviewed the other :)
[18:48] <teward> ack
[18:48] <teward> I've made a comment that it looks OK to me, but my 'review' is listed as "Abstain"
[18:48] <teward> simon's got more review say in this than I unfortunately
[18:48] <nacc> teward: fair enough, wasn't aware it was that formal, sorry!
[18:48] <teward> nacc: I'm treating it as formal :)
[18:48] <teward> no problem though
[18:49] <teward> glad to be in the loop :)
[18:50] <teward> tsimonq2: ^ just as an fyi
[18:50] <teward> i know you're not here right now thoug
[18:50] <nacc> teward: ack, thanks
[18:51] <teward> nacc: now, if it were an nginx section, I'd be asserting myself as needing to review it, due to being the one working on nginx right now; highly doubt the documentation team would mind heh
[18:52] <nacc> :)
[19:27] <nacc> slangasek: so php7.0.5 has a bunch of security fixes, etc. pacakged by debian now; if i file and am granted a SRU exception for php7.0 microreleases, will that mean i can just request a merge as appropriate?
[19:27] <teward> nacc: thought it was decided the fixes were backported and not as important to get included?
[19:27] <teward> (i.e. to not need the FFe)
[19:28] <nacc> teward: i just did a quick review -- upstream claims they are pretty important, and at least one is a BC unbreak
[19:28] <nacc> teward: i also just want to understand the policy :)
[19:28] <teward> :P
[19:28] <jtaylor> hm apparmor is spamming me with dnsmasq messages since the update today
[19:29] <tyhicks> jtaylor: since you updated to apparmor 2.10.95?
[19:29] <jtaylor> seems to actually be from yesterday, yes 2.10.95
[19:30] <tyhicks> jjohansen, sarnold: fyi ^
[19:30] <tyhicks> jtaylor: there should have been no changes in apparmor 2.10.95 that would cause that
[19:30] <tyhicks> jtaylor: I'll do some digging
[19:31] <jtaylor> operation="connect" info="Failed name lookup - disconnected path" error=-13 profile="/usr/sbin/dnsmaq" name="run/dbus/system_bus_socket"
[19:31] <tyhicks> jtaylor: for now, you can follow https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/1569316
[19:31] <jjohansen> what other packages were updated at the same time?
[19:31] <jtaylor> ah yes looks like that
[19:32] <jtaylor> a bunch I hadn't updated in a couple days, I can dig out the history if needed
[19:32] <tyhicks> it would be helpful
[19:32] <tyhicks> I'm going to begin trying to isolate the apparmor package update to determine if it was a change in there
[19:33] <jtaylor> I'll disable aa-notify for now ;)
[19:33] <jtaylor> please don't hack me now D:
[19:33] <sarnold> tyhicks: hah, talk about fun timing
[19:33] <sarnold> jtaylor: thanks for the report :)
[19:33]  * tyhicks defines fun differently
[19:36] <slangasek> nacc: it wouldn't be requesting a merge; we wouldn't track arbitrary packaging changes from Debian as part of a microrelease exception
[19:37] <nacc> slangasek: ok, so we'd be actually repackagind from upstream via uscan/uupdate?
[19:39] <slangasek> nacc: yes
[19:40] <jtaylor> tyhicks: attached the apt history to the log
[19:41] <nacc> slangasek: ok, thank you for clarifying
[19:41] <jtaylor> s/log/bug
[19:41] <nacc> slangasek: so at that point, do we still need to enforce our orig tarballs match debian's? if debian has already packaged the same version?
[19:45] <tyhicks> jtaylor: thank you
[19:46] <infinity> nacc: Yes.
[19:47] <nacc> infinity: thanks, just trying to understand all the bits so i can make it as easy as possible
[19:47] <infinity> nacc: You can only have one orig per upstream version, so while your 16.04 SRU uploads might be forked from Debian, your 16.10 uploads wouldn't be.
[19:47] <nacc> infinity: ack
[19:47] <infinity> nacc: So, you want the correct orig in 16.10, then uupdate with the same orig in 16.04
[19:47] <nacc> infinity: got it
[19:48] <infinity> nacc: If Debian is using pristine upstream tarballs (are they?) you can certainly agree in advance how the orig will be obtained and skip ahead.  Or agree that they use yours if you're ahead.  But it's definitely less hassle to use the same one.
[19:48] <nacc> infinity: does that imply we can't sru 16.04's php7.0 until 16.10 opens (e.g., with 7.0.5 as currently available) [again, presuming a microrelease SRU exception were to be granted]
[19:49] <infinity> nacc: No, it doesn't imply that, it just implies that it would be in your best interest to make sure you and Debian will use the same 7.0.5 orig, regardless of who uploads first.
[19:49] <nacc> infinity: got it
[19:49] <nacc> infinity: i believe debian is using pristine tarballs, but i'll review it to be sure
[19:50] <infinity> nacc: If the watch file grabs by URL and does gpg validation, that's a pretty good sign. ;)
[19:50] <infinity> nacc: But best to just make sure you and ondrej agree on what the method is (bonus points for the method being codified in the package), so you don't step on each others' toes.
[19:51] <nacc> infinity: ack, will do
[19:55] <nacc> teward: fyi, i put some notes in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes will try and flesh it out more too
[20:07] <tsimonq2> nacc, teward: I'm back, what's up?
[20:08] <jderose> nacc: might be nice to mention apt 1.2 and its shiny new DropPrivs feature :)
[20:11] <nacc> jderose: oh i was just updating for php7 :)
[20:11] <nacc> tsimonq2: sent an updated MP
[20:12] <tsimonq2> nacc: k cool
[20:13] <tsimonq2> nacc: and if you pushed to the branch, the MP would have updated :)
[20:16] <nacc> tsimonq2: ok i wasn't true, the guide mentions needing to put a new branch for every push, which seems confusing :)
[20:16] <tsimonq2> yeah :)
[20:17] <infinity> jderose: iz a wiki. ;)
[20:17] <infinity> jderose: *hint*
[20:20] <tsimonq2> nacc: reply incoming
[20:21] <jderose> infinity: is a wiki indeed, just crazy busy with something else ATM :P maybe later i'll have a chance
[20:25] <smoser> hey
[20:26] <smoser> anyone know how /run/network/ifstate gets initialized ?
[20:26] <smoser> i'm seeing that /lib/open-iscsi/net-interface-handler may end up populating it before it gets initialized. so /lib/open-iscsi/net-interface-handler does what it wanted (to make it appear like the iscsi root device nic is already up)
[20:26] <smoser> but that runs to early, and something else stomps it
[20:30] <teward> tsimonq2: scrollback is important
[20:30] <teward> tsimonq2: also, assign yourself to "Fix the inconsistencies with indentation - tabs and spaces should not exist simultaneously" issue
[20:31] <tsimonq2> teward: is that a bug already or no?
[20:31] <tsimonq2> s/bug/bug report/
[20:31] <teward> tsimonq2: nope, but nacc identified it as a problem
[20:32] <tsimonq2> k I'll do that in like 30 mins
[20:34] <smoser> slangasek, ^ or xnox ^ or pitti ^ (/me knows that 2 out of those 3 certainly should be EOD)
[20:37] <slangasek> smoser: ifupdown creates that file the first time it brings an interface up
[20:40] <smoser> slangasek, how does it know its the first time ?
[20:40] <slangasek> smoser: because the file isn't there yet
[20:40] <smoser> not true
[20:40] <teward> nacc: ack on the ping, looking now
[20:40] <smoser> i write it before it does, and then it truncates it
[20:40] <smoser> s/i/lib/open-iscsi/
[20:40] <slangasek> smoser: did you take a lock before you created it?
[20:40] <smoser> how do i take a lock ?
[20:41] <teward> nacc: s/configuration step/configuration change/ on the nginx bulletpoint,  but since it's a wiki I'll edit.
[20:42] <slangasek> smoser: ifupdown/main.c; it appears you need an fcntl(F_SETLK) on /run/network/.ifstate.lock
[20:43] <smoser> i'm pretty sure i'm not racing with it.
[20:44] <smoser> as this is running from udev
[20:44] <smoser> on the added lo event
[20:44] <smoser> which would later bring it up
[20:47] <smoser> slangasek, that make sense ?
[20:47] <smoser>  /lib/open-iscsi/net-interface-handler (http://paste.ubuntu.com/15800985/) is running via udev rule on a RUN+=
[20:48] <smoser> and i even had it runnign from a IMPORT (meaning it ran right then) and still saw the issue
[20:49] <tyhicks> jjohansen, sarnold, jtaylor: the new network-manager is what triggered the "disconnected path" denials (the new apparmor was *not* the cause)
[20:50] <tyhicks> jjohansen, sarnold: that's the case for the dnsmasq denials - I'm not sure about dhclient yet
[20:50] <jjohansen> tyhicks: thanks
[20:52] <slangasek> smoser: I don't think it's safe to assume that 'added lo' doesn't race other network interfaces
[20:52] <slangasek> whether you're tripping the race or not in this case, I'm sure there is a race there
[21:35] <sarnold> tyhicks: nice find :)
[21:57] <TheMuso> Mirv: If nobody else has looked at your merge by now, I can have a look.
[22:25] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, did you see bug #1568336?
[22:26] <seb128>   1646: 	option_error("Plugin %s is for pppd version %s, this is %s",
[22:26] <seb128> in the nm plugin :-/
[23:13] <nacc> slangasek: what/who should i subscribe to the microrelease-exception request for php7.0?
[23:45] <xnox> smoser, haha


[05:13] <sm> good morning
[05:13] <sivang> morning sm
[05:13] <sivang> 'sup?
[05:14] <sm> hi sivang.. just easing into the day..
[05:14] <sm> you ?
[05:15] <sivang> well, for us it's 18:14, so I can maybe go downstairs and make a cup of coffe to carry what's left of the day :)
[05:15] <sivang> sm: what are you up to? are you hacking our plone to make it better?
[05:15] <sivang> :)
[05:21] <sm> sivang: whenever I can, which isn't a whole lot just now
[05:21] <sm> I do a burst here and there
[05:22] <sivang> sm: Ah i see, cool then, I wasn't pushing or anything :)
[05:22] <sm> feel free :)
[05:22] <sm> what's your personal top wish ?
[05:23] <sivang> sm: well, more speed (like in moin) TOCs are nice, removing rest from the choises for markup :)
[05:25] <sm> the last is easy, if you get some consensus.. perhaps bring it up on the list ?
[05:25] <sm> I can check how many RST pages there are
[05:26] <sm> speed: do you use the plone or standard zwiki skin ?
[05:32] <sm> pages by type: - stx: 76 - rst: 156 - moin: 467 - html: 24 - plaintext: 7 - total: 730
[07:54] <sm> sivang: ayt ?
[08:16] <sivang> sm: oops, now I am
[08:17] <sm> just wondering if you use the plone or standard zwiki skin
[08:17] <sivang> sm: plone one
[08:17] <sivang> sm: well, I can use ziki's
[08:18] <sm> it's a good bit faster; is that a solution ?
[08:19] <sivang> sm: that's true, I'll switch to it
[08:22] <sm> TOCs - rst does that - moin pages don't, then ?
[08:22] <sm> there's no built-in moin tag for that ?
[08:24] <sivang> sm: hrm I see, well, I can cope without them at the momoent, can't remember about that
[08:24] <sivang> actually, in zwiki skin it's pretty fast
[08:25] <sm> yes, most operations should be
[08:26] <sm> saving a large page can take a while
[08:27] <sm> also a page containing very many []  links will render slowly.. an open issue
[08:27] <sm> I don't think we have any like that
[08:27] <sivang> yes, actually the saving time is a pain...I always scared to loose my changes while it takes it so much time to save..
[08:27] <sm> should be reliable, just takes a few seconds
[08:28] <sm> if you're editing a lot, you can use external editor to avoid this delay
[08:32] <sivang> ok, I shall use this in the future
[08:32] <sivang> sounds reasonable
[08:35] <sm> (alt-x)
[08:35] <sm> I like it for big pages


[03:58] <Favrenation> hey mikeputnam
[03:58] <Favrenation> love xchat :D
[03:59] <mikeputnam> ohai
[04:21] <h00k> hey yo.
[17:02]  * Cheesehead yawns
[19:05] <h00k> hey yo.


[00:00] <bryce> tormod, tjaalton_: either of you think it'd be a problem if we left MODEDEBUG on by default in the release?
[00:01] <tormod> bryce, that's intel only right?
[00:01] <bryce> it's an xserver option
[00:04] <bryce> tormod, googleearth-package sponsored
[00:05] <tormod> like the ModeDebug in xorg.conf then, I remember intel was doing something on its own there
[00:05] <tormod> bryce, great, for my proprietary sins
[00:05] <bryce> pretty sure it's the same option throughout, but Intel does insist on it being set more than other driver upstreams do
[00:11] <tormod> bryce, don't forget to do the bzr merge of the googleearth-package
[00:12] <bryce> bryce@chideok:~/src/googleearth-package/karmic-bugs2$ bzr merge
[00:12] <bryce> Merging from remembered parent location bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/ubuntu/karmic/googleearth-package/karmic-bugs2/
[00:12] <bryce> Nothing to do.
[00:59] <tormod> bryce, oh I thought you had to push to lp:ubuntu/googleearth-package but that's maybe auto-updated?
[01:03] <wgrant> Since I upgraded this morning, the framerate appears to get really low once Compiz is running. With Metacity 3D stuff is fine. GM45, was using xorg-edgers' PPA, but it happens even without it.
[01:04] <wgrant> "really low" meaning that I see lag while typing.
[01:18] <wgrant> -intel 2.8.1 is good... now to try intermediate xorg-edgers versions...
[01:24] <bryce> wgrant, "upgraded" == to karmic or to latest xorg-edgers?
[01:25] <bryce> $ bzr push lp:ubuntu/googleearth-package
[01:25] <bryce> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(lp-46082192:///~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/karmic/googleearth-package/karmic/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport
[01:26] <wgrant> bryce: Upgraded to latest karmic xorg-edgers. Was previously a couple of days behind.
[01:26] <wgrant> I then removed xorg-edgers, and it still happened.
[01:26] <wgrant> I downgraded to -intel 2.8.1, and the problem went away.
[01:27] <wgrant> Then re-upgraded to 2.9.0, and the problem is still gone.
[01:27] <wgrant> Maybe the previous 2.9.0 installation got broken when X died half way through.
[01:27] <wgrant> bryce: You can't write to distro branches yet.
[01:27] <wgrant> bryce: They are the exclusive domain of james_w's robot at the moment.
[01:27] <bryce> okie
[01:28] <bryce> wgrant, I would bet the regression was more due to mesa or libdrm (or the kernel) than to the ddx -intel driver
[01:29] <wgrant> bryce: That was what I initially suspected, but mesa/libdrm was all from xorg-edgers at the time, and the problem remained once I downgraded to the karmic versions.
[01:29] <bryce> any diff in your Xorg.0.log or glxinfo between the working and broken cases?
[01:31] <wgrant> I don't have the Xorg.0.log from the broken cases, as I presumed I'd be able to reproduce it.
[01:31] <wgrant> Sadly not.
[07:32] <tjaalton_> bryce: ok great, xserver looks fine. modedebug can stay on, since it's only helpful, and a few (hundred?) extra lines on the logfile is not that bad
[09:57] <eagles0513875> hey guys
[09:58] <eagles0513875> i have a question is the nvidia driver going ot be upgraded for karmic as im starting to notice people having alot of random issues such as consoles and in alpha 5 i had no x starting
[10:13] <tjaalton> updated to what? it's the latest stable version aiui
[10:25] <eagles0513875> the latest version from nvidia
[11:05] <superm1> kees, i think this execstack stuff is killing my install
[11:05] <superm1> this machine has fglrx and just did an apt upgrade and bumped to 8.660-0ubuntu3, the box was unusably slow
[11:05] <superm1> downgraded to 8.660-0ubuntu2 and it was usable again
[11:12] <tormod> superm1, maybe you should try the open-source driver :P
[11:13] <superm1> tormod, on a radeon HD 3450?  I don't think this card would be nearly as usable
[11:14] <tormod> superm1, it's getting there, 2D should work fine, 3D might work
[11:14] <superm1> tormod, yeah 2D is fine, but I need 3D, so that's a negatory.
[11:16] <superm1> kees, here's a bug for it: bug 447901
[11:35] <tjaalton> eagles0513875: that's beta, so no
[11:37] <tormod> tjaalton, jcristau: I think the Section's in libdrm/debian/control could need some love
[11:47] <tjaalton> tormod: which ones?
[11:47] <tjaalton> nouveau is all ours
[11:48] <tormod> yes libdrm-nouveau1-dbg, and libdrm-radeon1
[11:52] <tjaalton> they both are only on our package
[11:52] <tjaalton> too scary?
[11:59] <tormod> right, the Debian version is fine
[12:06] <albert23> tormod: are you aware of bug 447181 and bug 447427? The loss of UMS in xorg-edgers on jaunty seems to cause problems.
[12:09] <tormod> albert23, thanks, I was wondering if there would be people running it with old kernels :)
[12:10] <albert23> I guess it's a preview of what we may see with hardy -> lynx updates next year
[12:28] <tormod> albert23, I could add a /etc/modprobe.d/i915-kms.conf to the -intel package, but maybe it is more educational to leave that to the user
[12:31] <albert23> tormod: yeah, maybe just a warning on the ppa page that KMS is now mandatory would be good
[12:35] <tormod> albert23, good idea
[13:52] <eagles0513875> tjaalton: that isnt beta btw from the nvidia site there is a newer version of the driver out  and it seems like im seeing more and more people wiht nvidia issues :(
[13:58] <tjaalton> eagles0513875: the latest non-beta version is 185.18.36, and that's in karmic
[13:59] <tjaalton> mine is working just fine
[13:59] <eagles0513875> tjaalton: was that in alpha 5?
[13:59] <tjaalton> I don't know
[13:59] <eagles0513875> cuz back in alpha 5 the repo one wasnt working which i dont think was .36 but an older version the one that was in jaunty
[13:59] <eagles0513875> strange tjaalton i am not sure if i should send people in here who are having nvidia issues or not
[14:00] <tjaalton> Sun, 23 Aug 2009, so yes it was in alpha5
[14:01] <eagles0513875> interesting i dunno but there was a bug in it where x wouldnt start up at all
[14:01] <eagles0513875> would be dropped into a tty console
[14:01] <eagles0513875> with the nv driver and the 185 driver that is in repos
[14:01] <eagles0513875> downloaded it from nvidia and it worked just fine
[14:02] <tjaalton> without a logfile it's impossible to tell
[14:02] <tjaalton> could be just the kernel module missing
[14:03] <eagles0513875> tjaalton: true. alpha 6 it was fixed and nv worked out of the box
[14:03] <eagles0513875> and has been since
[14:03] <tjaalton> nv is different
[14:04] <abhinav> Hi .. suspend/hibernate with karmic is failing due to an error pointing to nvidia.
[14:04] <eagles0513875> tjaalton: maybe so but it wasnt working in alpha 5
[14:04] <abhinav> filed 415211 on launchpad - in case anyone wants to take a look. Guess quite a few users have seen this
[14:04] <abhinav> this is with the latest updates on karmic beta
[14:05] <tjaalton> eagles0513875: but not because of the driver, but something else
[14:06] <eagles0513875> was worried till alpha 6 came out that i would have had to recompile x from source with a newer version
[14:08] <tjaalton> unless you were bit by bug 385658
[14:08] <tjaalton> eh, not that one then :)
[14:08] <tjaalton> or maybe..
[14:09] <eagles0513875> tjaalton: i think i was
[14:09] <eagles0513875> cuz it would just drop right into console
[14:14] <eagles0513875> hey guys im trying to remix my own distro using karmic as my basis how can i rebrand it instead of using  the karmic debootstrap use debootstrap with my own naming convention for what im developing
[14:15] <tjaalton> hardly the place to ask
[14:15] <eagles0513875> whoops thought i was in ubuntu+1
[14:25] <amx109> updated karmic today and X is now borked. i get nothing but gibberish along the very centre of the screen. 2.6.31-13 doesnt work. nor does 2.6.31-12, but 2.6.31-11 drops me to a terminal login (still no X)
[14:25] <amx109> i have an ati 2850. can anyone help?
[14:26] <tjaalton> using fglrx?
[14:26] <eagles0513875> tjaalton: amx109 is having a similar issue that i was having back in alpha 5 with 11 kernel
[14:27] <tjaalton> but totally different hw
[14:27] <tjaalton> and driver
[14:41] <amx109> tjaalton,  yeah, im using fglrx
[14:54] <amx109> ive got X back
[14:55] <amx109> there was a missing file that fglrx was complaining about
[14:55] <amx109> i restored it from a backup
[14:55] <amx109> i get into X, and gnome now
[14:55] <amx109> but theres an amd logo in bottom right corner with 'testing use only. unssupported hardware' below it
[14:57] <amx109> im going to remove fgrlx and hope that improves things


[00:59] <furkan> hi, i'm just trying to test a regression before submitting a bug report for 3.19.0-12, but i can't seem to download 3.19.0-10 any longer via apt-get - any advice?
[01:00] <furkan> the problem is basically that dpms no longer works - it still works on mainline 4.0 rc7, and it used to work on the vivid 3.19 kernel, so it's definitely an update that broke it, but i just don't know which one
[01:01] <furkan> on 4.0 rc7 it also stops working after suspend/resume, which is how it was originally with vivid's 3.19, but now it doesn't work at all, even after a fresh boot
[02:03] <tmpRAOF> furkan: You can get it from launchpad directly.
[02:04] <RAOF> furkan: Start at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/linux and work through the “releases in ubuntu” links.
[02:23] <furkan> thanks RAOF i'll work through those when i get the chance
[13:18] <rtg> henrix, what are those CVE numbers so I can get them in the commit log ?
[13:18] <henrix> rtg: CVE-2015-2666: f84598bd7c851f8b0bf8cd0d7c3be0d73c432ff4; CVE-2015-2922: 6fd99094de2b83d1d4c8457f2c83483b2828e75a
[13:18] <rtg> henrix, thanks
[13:19] <henrix> rtg: i can also give you the bug # in a min...
[13:19] <henrix> for CVE-2015-2922: bug #1441103
[13:20] <henrix> and bug #1438504
[13:22] <rtg> henrix, done
[13:22] <henrix> rtg: cool, thanks
[18:44] <mssbrg> Hi, I'm doing some testing with thunderbolt on a 14.10 machine, kernel 3.17.8 and I'm experiencing some odd behavior. When I connect my machine to a thunderbolt display, the display works, however there is no thunderbolt driver loaded. Any help?
[18:44] <mssbrg> I'm really just curious how this is happening
[18:45] <apw> mssbrg, well the display is probabally exposed using another driver, and the bus itself is builtin
[18:45] <apw> so you don't necessarily expect to see a driver for the bus enumerator
[18:46] <mssbrg> i would expect to see `thunderbolt` in lsmod, no?
[18:48] <mjg59> No
[18:48] <mjg59> Unless it's an Apple
[18:48] <mssbrg> this is all apple hardware
[18:49] <mjg59> And also still no unless you're running 3.19
[18:49] <mssbrg> apw: also, i don't really follow what you mean by display exposed using another driver/bus is builtin
[18:50] <mssbrg> mjg59: why is that?
[18:50] <mjg59> mssbrg: The Thunderbolt hardware isn't exposed to the OS until we start pretending to be Darwin
[18:51] <mjg59> The hardware itself will handle the displayport layering setup
[18:52] <mssbrg> by hardware, do you mean the intel thunderbolt controller? then what kind of interface is exported to the OS?
[18:56] <mjg59> It just looks like Displayport to the OS
[19:00] <mssbrg> mjg59: so if I upgrade to 3.19 can I expect to see a thunderbolt driver?
[19:06] <mjg59> mssbrg: Yes
[19:08] <mssbrg> mjg59: also, should I currently expect to see a displayport driver in lsmod?
[19:08] <mjg59> No
[19:08] <mjg59> That's handled by the individual graphics drivers and the drm core
[19:10] <mssbrg> ah interesting. but there is /some/ driver in lsmod I should see that is handling the display, right?
[19:10] <mjg59> Yeah, either nouveau or i915
[19:10] <mssbrg> ok cool, i see i915
[19:12] <mssbrg> mjg59: and so in 3.19, I would potentially see thunderbolt instead of i915?
[19:13] <mjg59> mssbrg: No, as well as
[19:13] <mjg59> The thunderbolt driver handles the PCIe hotplug part of Thunderbolt (on Apple - on other systems it's managed by the firmware)
[19:15] <mssbrg> ah ok
[19:16] <mssbrg> unrelated, but are there logs for this channel anywhere?
[19:28] <mssbrg> mjg59: out of curiousity, if I plugged in a non-display thunderbolt device would things be different? still no thunderbolt driver in lsmod?
[19:28] <mjg59> On that kernel? Yeah, and also it wouldn't work.
[19:29] <mssbrg> oh. i thought 3.17 was the first to support thunderbolt
[19:30] <apw> mssbrg, yes this is logged, erm
[19:31] <mjg59> mssbrg: Kind of
[19:31] <mssbrg> apw: are they available? I don't see a url in the topic.
[19:31] <mjg59> It'll work if there's a Thunderbolt device plugged in at boot
[19:31] <mjg59> And it'll stop working if you suspend
[19:31] <apw> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/04/08/%23ubuntu-kernel.html
[19:32] <apw> mssbrg, ^ they are logged in the same place as "all" ubuntu channels
[19:32] <mssbrg> apw: ty
[19:34] <mssbrg> mjg59: so if I understand correctly, the driver itself only implements the low level pcie communications, and the actual functionality of whatever device is always implemented by another driver?
[19:34] <mjg59> Yes
[20:09] <mssbrg> mjg59: hm, still no thunderbolt driver in lsmod in 3.19. hotplug also doesn't work, even with it manually loaded in. any thoughts?
[20:09] <mjg59> mssbrg: Huh. That surprises me. I'm afraid I don't have time to look at it right now, though
[20:11] <mssbrg> No problem! Any recommendations on anything to try on my own? Either way, thanks for all the help!
[23:19] <RAOF> Oh, that's right. Attempting to restart this box will hang because btrfs has blown up.
[23:21] <RAOF> Damn you, cking, for asking me to test that! :)


[02:10] <xubuntu578> hola
[03:06] <uofm49426> question about compiz and xubuntu
[03:07] <uofm49426> how do i  intsall it can keep a title bar on windows
[03:08] <uofm49426> how do i  intsall it and  keep a title bar on windows
[05:14] <thilina> i recently found some errors with xubuntu...its not compatible with screenlets and cairo dock...this pissed me off
[05:14] <chelz> thilina: you can file bugs
[05:15] <thilina> chelz how could i do that?? can u plz tell me how to
[05:17] <chelz> thilina: When you find bugs, you should report bugs into the Xubuntu Launchpad BugTracker. You can make sure your bugs are more useful by carefully reading and following the bug reporting guidelines.
[05:17] <chelz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[05:17] <chelz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=xubuntu
[05:18] <thilina> thanks chelz im now working with it
[05:25] <thilina> its not easy to understand :(
[10:00] <HotBit> Hello, because when making update on xubuntu cannot see on GUI xfce, the speed of download updates (for sample 40kbps)?
[11:01] <nelson8874> hellohello
[11:06] <Lachezar> Hello. Where do I configure personal keyboard settings/preferences?
[11:09] <magerquark> application menu --> settings --> settingsmanager --> keyboard
[11:13] <Lachezar> magerquark: Insufficient. I was looking for a place to set special things like lv3:menu_switch and misc:typo.
[11:13] <TheSheep> Lachezar: there is no gui for that, you have to configure it the traditional way
[11:14] <Lachezar> magerquark: The UI for managing keyboard is way too rudimentary for that, and I am not about to «fix» system-wide settings.
[11:14] <TheSheep> Lachezar: xmodmap and xkb
[11:14] <TheSheep> !xmodmap
[11:14] <Lachezar> TheSheep: What's the «traditional» way? Fixing files _IS_ a way for me, as long as there is one.
[11:15] <Lachezar> I need this: setxkbmap -option lv3:menu_switch,misc:typo
[11:15] <Lachezar> But where do I put that :-/
[11:16] <TheSheep> Lachezar: wherever you want, for example in sessions and startup
[11:16] <Lachezar> TheSheep: Ughhh... Any URI to read? Does not work with startup... I have a KB Applet/Plugin, that overwrites these settings on regular basis.
[11:17] <Lachezar> TheSheep: I mean Keyboard Layout Switcher applet/plugin.
[11:18] <TheSheep> I'm not familiar with that applet, never used it, maybe check if you can configure it to not override that
[11:19] <Lachezar> TheSheep: It's part of the «goodies». And it too has rudimentary configuration.
[11:20] <TheSheep> then don't use it, bind a key combination to switch your layout or something
[11:20] <Lachezar> TheSheep: I have configured it, but I still want something to show me the current layout.
[11:21] <TheSheep> Lachezar: I really don't know, sorry
[11:24] <TheSheep> the docs at http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-xkb-plugin say it detects any changes made with xkb and reconfigures itself accordingly
[11:26] <Lachezar> TheSheep: Thanks for the try. I suspect it only reconfigures itself for changes in settings it supports. I have seen it pick up changes I do to the layout-switch key-combination, but it wipes out other settings.
[11:26] <TheSheep> Lachezar: sounds like a bug, you could report it
[11:28] <Lachezar> *rant*: I must say I'm disappointed with Xubuntu. I was very disappointed with the direction Ubuntu is going, and I hoped Xubuntu would cling on to the configurability-over-prettyness, but it seems to me Xubuntu is not the choice for someone who wants to have control over the system, not to have the system have control over him.
[11:28]  * Lachezar sighs...
[11:30] <TheSheep> Lachezar: well, xfce has a much smaller team than gnome and they can't really cover all possible use cases, so often they leave out more obscure things and let you configure them manually
[11:31] <TheSheep> Lachezar: the xkb plugin breaking your custom settings is probably not an intentional thing, if you report it you have a chance of having it fixed in the next release
[11:31] <TheSheep> Lachezar: if you don't report it, it will stay like that
[11:32] <knome> Lachezar, i'm sorry you are disappointed. in my point of view, xubuntu has more configurability than ubuntu. as TheSheep said, if you don't file a bug, nobody can fix it...
[11:36] <Marzata> Lachezar: what layouts do you use?
[11:38]  * Marzata we use 3 writing systems and have no problem with Xubuntu.
[12:27] <Lachezar> Marzata: (sorry, was away) I am using only xkb with EN and BG layout. It works very well until I need some obscure settings.
[12:28] <Marzata> Lachezar: what are they?
[12:33] <Lachezar> Marzata: lv3:menu_switch,misc:typo
[12:34] <Lachezar> Marzata: I like using the MENU+KEY cmbination to has quick access to «» °®™ etc.
[12:34]  * Lachezar looks puzzled at his own bad English.
[12:34]  * TheSheep uses compose for that
[12:35] <TheSheep> of course it replaces caps lock
[12:35] <Lachezar> TheSheep: We've had this conversation. Compose seems like too much work, and gives me headaches when I try to «cancel» composition.
[12:35] <Marzata> Lachezar: I have never used menu but I have Russian, Icelandic, ... no problem
[12:36] <Marzata> ðþæå  эы̀а́а̀
[12:39] <Lachezar> Marzata: The language-specific characters are easy. Like I've said it's the non-generic stuff that gives me headaches.
[12:40] <Marzata> this is ° on the keyboard :)
[12:41] <Marzata> this ® also
[12:41] <Marzata> «» this too
[12:41] <Lachezar> „Абвгдеж“ is OK, I even have the „ѝ“, which is a special character, but «special quoting» is not there. How to you write °? I use MENU-D
[12:41] <TheSheep> compopse > > :D
[12:42] <Marzata> ѝ must not be used
[12:42] <Marzata> you must compose it, not an additional symbol for it
[12:43] <Lachezar> Marzata: ѝ is NOT a composite character! It's a special UNIQUE PURPOSE character.
[12:43] <Lachezar> It has it's own UNICODE code.
[12:43] <Marzata> who did it, did it wrongly, must be composed
[12:44] <Lachezar> Marzata: WRONG! Language specifics! This is NOT the ́и, it is ѝ
[12:44] <Lachezar> (first one is composed, second one is the special character).
[12:44] <Marzata> both here are composed ѝ и́
[12:45] <Marzata> no need for a symbol for this
[12:45] <Lachezar> Nope... Like I've said... It may look as if it's an accented character, but it is not.
[12:45] <Marzata> coz later you will need symbol for а, ъ, о, у, е, ...
[12:47] <Lachezar> Marzata: No, you don't! ONLY one special character, that represents a special word (one-letter word): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_with_grave_%28Cyrillic%29
[12:48] <Lachezar> You should NOT apply your Latin thinking to non-latin alphabets.
[12:48] <Marzata> Lachezar: again, who did that, did it wrong.
[12:49] <Lachezar> Marzata: Nope... You are :)
[12:49] <knome> boys
[12:49] <Marzata> Lachezar: you can only wish so...
[12:49] <knome> calm down
[12:49] <knome> Lachezar, please file a bug
[12:50] <Marzata> knome: sorry
[12:50] <Lachezar> I am calm... knome: To omuch work... and Yet Another Password To Remember Or Forget Instantly ;)
[12:50] <knome> Lachezar, in that case, don't expect this to be fixed
[12:51]  * knome wipes Lachezar's permission to whine about this in the future
[12:52] <Lachezar> knome: Yes, I don't expect this to be fixed. I don't expect this to be fixed EVEN if I submit the bug. I've had _NONE_ of the bugs fixed in Launchpad. Gave up on that idea long ago. I don't bother wasting time to submit a bug, just to find out someone decided to mark it as a duplicate of something completely unrelated.
[12:52]  * Lachezar promisses not to whine about that. Or anything else Linux for that matter.
[12:53] <knome> well, filing bugs is the only way to make the developers know of them
[12:55] <Marzata> knome: most ppl are lazy to do it
[12:55] <knome> Marzata, i know.
[12:56] <Marzata> knome: they still think Linux is coming from Santa, not from the community.
[12:57] <hobgoblin> in the past I felt it was pointless to do so - not so much now though I hasten to add
[12:57] <knome> well, it all depends on the severity of the bug
[12:57] <hobgoblin> I know :)
[12:57] <Lachezar> Marzata,  knome: The urge to file a bug quickly dissipates when one sees nothing in exchange.
[12:58] <knome> Lachezar, i'm sorry for your bad experiences
[12:58] <hobgoblin> Lachezar: a lot of the time if it's just one person and no-one can verify it - then it's hard
[12:58] <hobgoblin> but I understand your point
[12:59] <Lachezar> Marzata,  knome: I've recently come across a pretty nasty defect in aptitude... Got my issue yanked as a duplicate, and then marked as 'Will eventyally fix in some far-away release, but foirget for back-porting'.
[12:59] <Marzata> Lachezar: isn't that xfce xkb plugin written by Bulgarian?
[12:59] <xubuntu362> hi
[12:59] <knome> i understand that too. but as a contributor, i also want to make it clear that without bug reports, bugs are not most probably going to be fixed
[12:59] <Lachezar> Marzata: Dunno. The About box does not say :-/
[13:00] <Lachezar> knome: Yes, being a software developer myself I _KNOW_ that it's crucial...
[13:01] <Marzata> Lachezar: http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-xkb-plugin
[13:01] <knome> okay, if you guys want to continue, move to #xubuntu-offtopic. i think that's it for this :)
[13:01] <knome> xubuntu362, hello
[13:02] <Marzata> Lachezar: "Written by Alexander Iliev". Why you guys don't get together and have a beer and fix it?
[13:45] <Lachezar> Leaving those off-topic aside: where in Xubuntu do I configure xkb settings (per user).
[14:21] <timmillwood> system hangs at "Asking all remaining processes to terminate..."
[14:21] <timmillwood> ;(
[14:28] <Marzata> timmillwood: it happens even with the supercomputers.
[14:28] <timmillwood> I'll see what happens next reboot
[14:28]  * timmillwood likes to think he has a super computer.
[14:30] <Marzata> timmillwood: btw, Cray is using Windows for they web site.
[14:30] <timmillwood> huh?
[16:34] <sambro> instead of using alt+tab to switch between open applications, is there a way to just type the name of an open application and it will toggle to that application?
[16:35] <holstein> sambro: i use kupfer ... not sure about toggling, though im sure theres a way
[16:39] <xsl> how do i disable right click and middle click on the xfce desktop?
[16:41] <sambro> thanks holstein, looks like there is a 'window-list' plugin for kupfer that i can use
[16:43] <holstein> :)
[16:44] <holstein> xsl: check out https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics and see if that helps :)
[17:43] <DarkLordZim> when i install wireshark via apt-get, i get an Lua error  "Lua: Error during loading: [string "/usr/share/wireshark/init.lua"]:45:dofile has been disabled.
[17:43] <DarkLordZim> then wireshark freezes after a few minutes of captures
[17:44] <DarkLordZim> is there another way i'm supposed to install it to run on Xubuntu 64?
[18:20] <developer> hello, i'm having a strange problem with an application launcher. i developed an application and i want to create a launcher for it on the desktop. it needs to be launched with the application's root working directory. I created a launcher on the panel, specifying the working dir and the executable. it works. I'm unable to do the same thing on the desktop because the application is always launched referring to my home directory and
[18:20] <developer> not the working dir i specified in the launcher. any idea?
[18:23] <xubuntu459> Hi at all: I'm trying to install xubuntu 11.10 but the progress bar didn't move since 15min. If I expand the details at the bottom the last line is "dbus [1138]:[system] Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.UPower'
[18:25] <alexandru4392> hello
[18:27] <alexandru4392> after a day of using xubuntu 11.10 i conclusioned that it's faster than kubuntu and ubuntu with unity
[18:28] <alexandru4392> XUBUNTU IS AWESOME
[18:28] <alexandru4392> it just works
[18:35] <baizon> it is simple :)
[18:36] <TheSheep> simply awesome
[18:36] <developer> hello, i'm having a strange problem with an application launcher. i developed an application and i want to create a launcher for it on the desktop. it needs to be launched with the application's root working directory. I created a launcher on the panel, specifying the working dir and the executable. it works. I'm unable to do the same thing on the desktop because the application is always launched referring to my home directory and
[18:36] <developer> not the working dir i specified in the launcher. any idea?
[18:39] <alexandru4392> developer can you send me the app so i can test it
[19:29] <alexandru4392> xubuntu is FAST
[19:30] <alexandru4392> updated my kernel and installed compiz
[19:33] <TheSheep> that just means your graphics card is fast :)
[19:40] <alexandru4392> who uses kernel 3.2.9
[19:54] <w30> I have a weird xubuntu problem; When I close Firefox it opens libreoffice. I don't have any idea what to do to prevent this or understand it.
[19:54] <TheSheep> w30: how did you open firefox?
[19:57] <w30> TheSheep, command line,  shortcut, menu, makes no difference.
[19:57] <TheSheep> strange
[19:58] <w30> TheSheep, even messing with /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop doesn't help
[20:35] <w30> Is anyone besides me having flash troubles with a 64bit system? Lots of flash sites don't work anymore. Is this because Adobe's flash is advancing without Liniux support/
[20:35] <baizon> w30: what version and package do you use?
[20:36] <baizon> i got no problems with flash at all
[20:38] <w30> baizon, xubuntu 11.10 and the latest Adobe 64 bit flash whatever that is called???
[20:38] <w30> baizon, where is your libflashplayer.so  placed?
[20:39] <baizon> i just installed the package
[20:40] <w30> mine is in /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so
[20:41] <w30> baizon, did you use the xubuntu repo version?
[20:42] <baizon> yes
[20:42] <w30> baizon, I tried both -the repo and the Adobe download tar
[20:42] <baizon> the "normal"
[20:43] <w30> baizon, I get lots of you need a later flash errors; I am not sure that is an accurate error message though.
[20:44] <w30> baizon, you tube flash files always work though.
[20:44] <baizon> check your flash version
[20:44] <w30> either on the site or downloaded .flv files
[20:47] <w30> Adobe Flash Player version <IP_ADDRESS> Your system: Linux 64-bit, Firefox
[20:48] <w30> says Adobe
[20:48] <baizon> seems ok :)
[20:49] <baizon> on what website is the problem?
[20:55] <w30> baizon, quite a few news sites( fox news, ABC, ; National Geographic
[20:57] <baizon> firefox 10?
[21:00] <w30> baizon, 10.02 Mozilla Firefox for Ubuntu Canonical-1.0
[21:04] <jonte> Heya. This might not be xubuntu specific, but can I add a new "special" directory in my ~? Like Documents, Desktop, etc. I'm after the customized icon.
[21:06] <TheSheep> you can add emblems to your directories
[21:07] <TheSheep> actually I would love to disable the special icons and use normal ones with emblems
[21:20] <w30> You  can got to settings-desktop-icons and pick what icons show on your desktop (home trash filesystem removable devices)
[21:22] <w30> then you can right click on an empty space on the desktop and create your own launchers
[21:25] <w30> you can select icons from various icon types or even all files i.e. your own icons
[23:04] <arbo> If the 'several minutes' suggested by the xubuntu installer to wipe the swap space extends into the 30+ minute range, is it safe to assume something's gone wrong?
[23:07] <autif> arbo - how much RAM and swap space do you have?   Old disk recovered from another PC.
[23:08] <autif> ooh - ubuntu might choose 16 or 32 GB for swap - it does take a while - but not 30 minutes - unless you are on an atom processor or something that slow
[23:09] <autif> is the HDD led on?
[23:09] <autif> or blinking?
[23:09] <autif> if yes, then it is working, otherwise - chances are something went wrong
[23:10] <arbo> Yeah.  And the USB I'm installing from shows some intermittent activity.  It's just not what it was earlier in the install (furiously blinking, now just every 6 or so seconds)
[23:10] <autif> if there is no disk activity and there is no CPU activity - something is wrong
[23:10] <autif> once every 6 seconds or so does not really count as activity on HDD
[23:11] <autif> go to a terminal - Ctrl Alt F1/F2 etc
[23:11] <autif> and using top or soemthing see what the CPU load is
[23:11] <autif> if the load is high then be patient, otherwise - ....
[23:12] <autif> i can not think of alternatives
[23:12] <autif> if either of the two are active - CPU or disk activity - you are fine - otherwise not
[23:14] <arbo2> haha, and now I can't get back into x
[23:15] <autif> Ctrl Alt F7
[23:15] <autif> try all the F1, F2 buttons in order - F7 should be X
[23:17] <autif> sorry to quit on you, but I gotta run. All the best, someone should be able to help
[23:33] <Pasq89> if i try to delete files in NTFS partition i get: unable to find or create Trash
[23:34] <Pasq89> shift+delete does the trick, but what if i want to have a chance to restore those files later? any solution?
[23:43] <pamposzek> Hey, I have problem installing xubuntu 12.04 from CD, some 'unrecoverable problem' during copying. Maybe someone can help?
[23:44] <knome> did you check the CD integrity?
[23:44] <pamposzek> how do I do that?
[23:44] <knome> checksums
[23:45] <knome> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ <- check that or any other appropriate page for the sums
[23:48] <pamposzek> Hm, it's different..
[23:48] <pamposzek> So I need to download again?
[23:48] <knome> if you downloaded today's image and the checksum doesn't match, then yes
[23:48] <Pasq89> pampo?
[23:48] <pamposzek> yea?
[23:48] <knome> but please note that 12.04 is still beta
[23:49] <Pasq89> tipote re.. aplws ise dikos mas... gt en dokimazeis pou usb?
[23:49] <knome> Pasq89, english only please
[23:49] <pamposzek> There shouldn't be problems with booting via USB? I just used last cd.
[23:49] <Pasq89> okay knome
[23:50] <knome> pamposzek, should work with the desktop image
[23:50] <magerquark> is it possible to update 11.10 to 12.04 with apt-get?
[23:50] <magerquark> in an easy manner
[23:51] <Pasq89> any solution for the: unable to find or create thrash on nfts partition? (exept of shift+delete..) also tried to create .thrash-MyId
[23:51] <knome> magerquark, update-manager -d
[23:51] <pamposzek> ok thanks then, I'll try non beta via usb. Also, installer was doing some strange stuff. When I checked to replace old ubuntu, he created multiple swap partitions and corrupted grub. Hope it will work now.
[23:51] <knome> magerquark, but please remember it's still beta...
[23:52] <magerquark> knome, muchas gracias
[23:52] <knome> Pasq89, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1499345 ?
[23:52] <magerquark> knome, i am running it via virtaulbox
[23:52] <knome> magerquark, right, just making sure
[23:53] <magerquark> so it is just to play with
[23:56] <Pasq89> thanx!


[09:54]  * thorwil hands mpt a bonus point for using car analogy
[10:04] <thorwil> mpt: regarding the menu problem being solved for submenus in gtk: afaics gtk does it time-based, wich means there's an annoying delay when browsing through menus. the proper way to do it would be direction based, instead
[10:05] <thorwil> hrmpf, design.canonical.com seems to lack links to specific comments
[10:07] <mpt> thorwil, Windows is time-based, GTK is direction-based.
[10:08] <mpt> In Windows if you move diagonally towards the bottom of a submenu you'll get flash-flash-flash of items that aren't the submenu title. In GTK you won't.
[10:08] <thorwil> mpt: hmm, then why is there such an annyoing delay before submenus show/hide?
[10:08] <mpt> thorwil, I reported a bug yesterday about the lack of comment permalinks
[10:09] <mpt> thorwil, that's an unrelated delay, to avoid submenus flashing open when you're moving past them on the way to lower items.
[10:14] <thorwil> i really wish i could turn that off
[10:20] <thorwil> ah, compiz was to blame, in part. the remaining delay is irregular and thus looks like a performance issue :/
[10:20] <thorwil> bbl
[17:45] <qense> A user reports in bug 568262 that Transmission and Rhythmbox disappear from Indicator Application after a while. How are we ever going to find out what caused this?
[17:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 568262 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "programs disappear from the applet (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568262
[18:02] <seb128> qense, ask for .xsession-errors and .cache logs?
[18:06] <qense> seb128: ah! Log files. Ingenious solution!
[18:10] <qense> Sometimes I'm just not that sharp. :)
[21:59] <Nafai> tedg, bratsche: So I think I finally narrowed down a possibility of what is happening using my small example.  In libappindicator, you connect to the add signal for menus to detect when items are added to a menu.  But, for some reason, that signal is (or seems to be) ever emitted when you add those submenus via gtk_ui_manager_add
[22:02] <tedg> Nafai: Hmm, I wonder if it's similar to the GtkContainer vs. MenuShell bug.
[22:02] <Nafai> what's that one?
[22:02] <tedg> I think that it depended on how you added the entires they'd get picked up.  Using one interface vs. the other.
[22:03] <tedg> One didn't emit any signals at all.
[22:03] <Nafai> I have a minimal example that reproduces it
[22:03] <Nafai> Plus added a few debug prints to lib app indicator
[22:03] <tedg> Nafai: Ah, cool.  Sounds like something that should get assigned to bratsche though -- that's his code :)
[22:04] <Nafai> ok, I'll assign it to him, with the details I just found out
[22:04] <Nafai> bbiab, short errand
[22:18] <bratsche> Nafai: Send me the link
[22:37] <Nafai> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/558841
[22:37] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 558841 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affects: 3) (heat: 18)" [Medium,In progress]
[22:38] <Nafai> The branch with my minimal example is linked there in the comments, I'm about to finish up a comment explaining what I believe is going on
[22:40] <bratsche> Okay cool, thanks.
[22:48] <bratsche> Nafai: Is minimal_menu_example supposed to do something other than crash?
[22:49] <Nafai> uh, yeah :)
[22:49]  * bratsche installs, maybe that's the issue
[22:49] <Nafai> actually
[22:49] <Nafai> run it from the main directory
[22:49] <Nafai> src/minimal_menu_example
[22:49] <bratsche> Ah there we go
[22:49] <bratsche> thanks.
[22:49] <Nafai> I think the path to the .ui file was hardcoded :)
[22:50] <bratsche> Cool it's running now.
[22:50] <bratsche> I see:
[22:50] <bratsche> Minimal
[22:50] <bratsche> -------
[22:50] <bratsche> Quit
[22:51] <Nafai> Right, if you look at the terminal output, I display the menu structure and the ui xml
[22:51]  * bratsche reads the code to see what it should be doing
[22:51] <bratsche> Yeah
[22:52] <bratsche> There should be a submenu on it right?
[22:53] <Nafai> yes
[22:53] <Nafai> and the add signal never seems to be signaled from the top-level menu
[22:53] <Nafai> er, emitted
[22:53] <bratsche> Nafai: Nice test program.  This is great. :)
[22:53] <Nafai> thanks
[22:53] <Nafai> I tried to distill down what gnome-bluetooth was doing
[22:56] <bratsche> Ah, I think I know exactly what's going on.
[22:57] <bratsche> app-indicator.c:1277
[22:57] <bratsche>   if (GTK_IS_TEAROFF_MENU_ITEM(widget)) {
[22:57] <bratsche>         return;
[22:57] <bratsche>   }
[22:59] <bratsche> Eh, maybe that's not it.
[23:00] <Nafai> Yeah, I had a debug print before that and I still didn't get the container_iterate called when it was added


[01:49] <FFighter> hello
[01:49] <FFighter> folks
[01:49] <FFighter> I came from Gnome
[01:49] <FFighter> and my keboard lyout is now messed up
[01:50] <FFighter> I can`t find keyboard setting under the system menu
[01:50] <FFighter> could someone help me
[01:52] <FFighter> nonone
[01:52] <FFighter> no one
[01:53] <wbadger> ?
[01:53] <wbadger> FFighter, be a bit more specific
[01:53] <FFighter> wbadger, ok
[01:53] <FFighter> wbadger, I used to use GNOME
[01:54] <FFighter> wbadger, my keyboard layout is Brazillian ABTN2
[01:54] <FFighter> wbadger, just switched to XFCE
[01:54] <wbadger> ok
[01:54] <wbadger> I believe gnome stores it's own keyboard layout
[01:54] <FFighter> wbadger, and the keyboard layout is definetly not Br ABNT2 and I can`t find where to set it up
[01:55] <wbadger> XFCE keyboard layout is set with the file xorg.conf
[01:55] <wbadger> or you could try otherwise
[01:55] <FFighter> wbadger, hmmm... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=66115
[01:55] <FFighter> wbadger, I think I found the answer =)
[01:55] <wbadger> first lets try opening settings -> keyboard settings
[01:55] <FFighter> wbadger, I can`t find it!
[01:55] <wbadger> oh
[01:55] <wbadger> why not?
[01:55] <FFighter> wbadger, the keyboard settings
[01:55] <wbadger> do you not have a menu or no keyboard settings?
[01:56] <FFighter> wbadger, well, I`ve got a Applications main menu
[01:56] <FFighter> there`s a system submenu
[01:56] <FFighter> but there isn`t a keyboard settings item there
[01:56] <wbadger> yeah but there should also be a settings submenu
[01:56] <wbadger> you don't need the system submenu
[01:56] <FFighter> holy cow, sorry my mistake
[01:56] <FFighter> yeah there is
[01:56] <FFighter> damn lack of attention
[01:56] <wbadger> ;) no problem, happened to me too at first
[01:57] <wbadger> now in the keyboard settings, in the layouts tab, there should be a way to fix this
[01:57] <FFighter> wbadger, yeah, thanks so much
[01:57] <FFighter> =)
[01:57] <wbadger> np ;)
[02:17] <FFighter> hey!
[02:17] <FFighter> Is there a way to assign keyboard shortcuts to switch the workspaces in XFCE:
[02:17] <FFighter> ?
[02:17] <user1> whats easiest way to stream my tuner card to my freind?
[02:25] <nikolam> FFighter: You HAVE shortcut: Ctrl+Alt+Arrow
[02:28] <FFighter> nikolam, yeah, thank you
[02:31] <vanessa_> when i start up, i have no deskbar
[02:31] <vanessa_> and i dont know how to turn it on
[02:31] <wbadger> vanessa_, what do you mean by deskbar..?
[02:32] <vanessa_> the menu bar at the top and bottom of the desktop in Xfce that sais "Applications" and stuff
[02:32] <vanessa_> it was there when i installed
[02:33] <wbadger> what happens if you press alt+f2 and enter in that box that pops up "xfce4-panel", and then press enter?
[02:35] <vanessa_> now it is wonderful
[02:35] <vanessa_> thanks!
[02:35] <vanessa_> why would it run from the live CD install and not when i start up?
[02:35] <wbadger> I have no idea
[02:35] <vanessa_> lol
[02:35] <vanessa_> ok!
[02:35] <wbadger> write that command down
[02:37] <vanessa_> ok thanks!
[02:37] <wbadger> np :)
[03:51] <Ahmuck> hi, does xubuntu have a printer setup gui?
[03:51] <Ahmuck> ah, nm, i found it under settings
[04:05] <Ahmuck> !mp3
[04:05] <ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[04:09] <Ahmuck> if i want to play dvds in xubuntu, where do find that information?
[04:09] <Ahmuck> if i want to play windows media files, where do i find that information?
[04:09] <rob> Ahmuck, look at the above urls
[04:10] <Ahmuck> those are for ubuntu, which gstreamer i suspect installs some media player?  will this work for a memory challenged system?
[04:10] <rob> dvd playback is provided by libdvdcss2 and windows codecs are available in w32codecs, both not distributable by Ubuntu due to legal reasons explained on those pages, but there are details on where to get them
[04:10] <Ahmuck> i guess the questiosn should have been, not distributable in the US?
[04:10] <Ahmuck> or world wide?
[04:11] <rob> most places, so they don't at all, but there is a third party repo called Medibuntu that has them
[04:11] <Ahmuck> ah, ok, so what media player does xubuntu use?
[04:11] <rob> xfmedia is probably best on low-resource computers in conjunction with the right codecs
[04:12] <Ahmuck> ah, i c, gxine
[04:12] <Ahmuck> or xfmedia, k, thx
[04:12] <rob> not sure what the xubuntu default is, personally I find the xubuntu defaults to be way too resource needy for my needs, better alternatives exist for almost everything
[04:13] <Ahmuck> rob: do you have a page with low resource alternatives?
[04:14] <rob> umm no, I only know of them from my own research, I might do a page when I get some spare time.
[04:14] <siimo> xfmedia sucks
[04:14] <siimo> it uses PCM volume control
[04:14] <rob> a couple I can recommend are Epiphany instead of Firefox, and claws-mail instead of Thunderbird/Evolution
[04:15] <siimo> totoally messes with other programs using audio
[04:15] <siimo> stick to audacious for music man
[04:15] <rob> to be honest its rare for me to play back video on this laptop, I'd suspect audacious to be overly resource needy too for music
[04:15] <siimo> for movies i highly recommened VLC Ahmuck
[04:16] <Ahmuck> i've used VLC before
[04:16] <siimo> rob: its much lighter than xfmedia  its like an xmms clone
[04:16] <siimo> xfmedia relies on xine backend
[04:16] <siimo> Ahmuck: VLC will play everything + kitchen sink
[04:16] <rob> vlc might be okay, haven't used it in a long time.
[04:17] <rob> same with mplayer
[04:17] <siimo> mplayer / xine are ok but i prefer VLC as it does everything i need without even needing win32codes
[04:17] <rob> mpg123 ftw
[04:17] <siimo> it uses ffmpeg
[04:18] <rob> another thing I use a lot is tilda
[04:19] <rob> I remember kde having something similar
[04:32] <travisbickkl1> how do i open .ai format in linux?
[04:41] <totalwormage> inkscape can handle most .ai's :]
[06:38] <stinkyfoot> can someone help me out? my arrow keys don't work
[06:44] <siimo> ><
[06:44] <siimo> stinkyfoot: you using the wrong keymap maybeh
[06:44] <stinkyfoot> siimo what do i about this?
[06:45] <siimo> no idea is that the only keys not working
[06:45] <stinkyfoot> yes
[06:46] <siimo> have you tried picking up the kbd and knocking it on the desk a few times? lol i have no ideas
[07:52] <PlayMeNow> hello
[07:53] <PlayMeNow> I got a few problems over here
[07:56] <PlayMeNow> hello?
[07:58] <xjkx> whats the command line to get that tool to configure the whole xfce
[07:59] <PlayMeNow> sadly everyone is sleeping here
[08:03] <xjkx> i found out, thanks
[11:59] <gromozekin> What a Fucka?i inserted cd with xubuntu, select Start Ubuntu and after 7 min i see xfce. ooh its toooo sloow... after 2 min i select Install and its awfully slow...
[12:00] <TheSheep> !language | gromozekin
[12:00] <ubotu> gromozekin: Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[12:01] <gromozekin> could it be more faster if i burn it on other cd?or its pc trouble?
[12:02] <gromozekin> anyone have some ideas?
[12:03] <gromozekin> cunt
[12:04] <gromozekin> !
[12:16] <vonhalenbach> gromo was right. The files on the cd should be serialized to make them load faster.
[12:17] <TheSheep> !bugs | vonhalenbach
[12:17] <ubotu> vonhalenbach: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
[12:17] <vonhalenbach> okay
[12:18] <TheSheep> vonhalenbach: we are users, not devs :)
[12:18] <vonhalenbach> have to search for the tool to serialize the files first, to make not just another unuseful bug report.
[12:19] <Pondiboy> hi peeps..
[01:40] <Tubia87> hi all
[02:02] <TheSheep> hi bill
[02:20] <snellpojke> hi
[02:21] <snellpojke> i get an error when i try to start ubuntu or install ubuntu then it say reboot
[02:21] <snellpojke> why?
[02:21] <snellpojke> it work fine on my laptop
[02:36] <rm130> where is volume control?
[02:44] <phillips321> anyone here know how to remove automatically added wine programs from the xfce menu list?
[02:45] <phillips321> they are listed in other
[02:47] <rm130> phillips321, run uninstaller
[02:50] <phillips321> rm130, i ran that it did uninstall the ap
[02:50] <phillips321> if i click the items in the menu they dont start now
[02:50] <phillips321> all i want to do is remove them from the menu
[02:50] <phillips321> a restart doesn't refresh the list
[02:51] <rm130> oh I don't know. I still haven't figured that out
[02:51] <rm130> try opening terminal
[02:51] <rm130> and type in uninstaller..see if the item is still listed
[02:51] <phillips321> okies
[02:52] <phillips321> nope
[02:52] <phillips321> not listed
[02:53] <phillips321> i guess the menu uses the system default settings
[02:53] <rm130> Dunno then. sorry
[02:53] <phillips321> okies, thanks for trying
[02:54] <phillips321> all i need to find now is where the default list comes from...if i click Xfce Menu-->Settings-->Menu Editor
[02:54] <phillips321> i get name = --include--
[02:54] <phillips321> command = system
[04:09] <FFighter> hello
[04:09] <FFighter> folks
[04:09] <FFighter> How am I supposed to take screenshots in XFCE?
[04:09] <FFighter> I'm trying printscreen but it doesn't seem to copy the screen for me
[04:11] <wbadger> you can add this kinda widget to the bar
[04:11] <wbadger> the panel*
[04:11] <wbadger> press right button -> add new item
[04:11] <wbadger> and then you can choose "screenshot". then just press the newly added button on your panel
[04:12] <wbadger> or you could install another screenshot application, like the one gnome uses (forgot it's name)
[04:12] <wbadger> FFighter
[04:15] <FFighter> wbadger, thank you
[04:15] <wbadger> np
[05:12] <neozen> g'morning all
[05:13] <vinze> g'afternoon neozen :)
[05:13] <neozen> lol
[05:13] <neozen> good point
[05:13] <neozen> s/g\'morning/salutations/
[05:38] <KlrSpz> anyone have any tips on minimizing ubuntu's disk usage?
[05:39] <KlrSpz> i noticed it has a bunch of cruft on there like ALL the xorg drivers (when i only need like 2
[05:39] <KlrSpz> even though those don't take much space, what else can be cleared up?
[05:41] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: pretty much everything
[05:41] <neozen> KlrSpz: just install xubuntu... that'll knock off about 3GB
[05:41] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: anthy and chewing stuff if you don't use japanese and chinese
[05:41] <KlrSpz> well i installed xubuntu
[05:42] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: many many fonts if you don't need to have exotic web pages displayed properly
[05:42] <KlrSpz> not ubuntu, but it still relies on a ton of ubuntu's pkgs and dependancies
[05:42] <neozen> still quite a bit lighter
[05:42] <TheSheep> !xubuntu | KlrSpz
[05:42] <ubotu> KlrSpz: xubuntu is Ubuntu with Xfce instead of Gnome. For more info, see http://www.xubuntu.org and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/ - To install from Ubuntu: "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop". | For support, see #xubuntu | See also: !ubuntu and !xubuntu-channels
[05:42] <KlrSpz> yeah i know what xubuntu is, that's what i have instlaled
[05:42] <KlrSpz> but it still installs a bunch of cruft
[05:42] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: xubunut *is* ubuntu, just with different desktop and default applications, still *all* the packages come from ubuntu
[05:43] <KlrSpz> ok so we're talking in circles
[05:43] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: just remove anything you don't need :)
[05:43] <neozen> its still early
[05:43] <KlrSpz> my question wasn't what xubuntu is, but rather what packages are deemed as crap
[05:43] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: you have a printer?
[05:43] <KlrSpz> yeah
[05:43] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: ok, so leave the printing support
[05:43] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: bluetooth?
[05:43] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: wifi?
[05:43] <KlrSpz> nope
[05:44] <KlrSpz> nope
[05:44] <neozen> KlrSpz: then whack that stuff out..
[05:44] <TheSheep> ok, remove bluezutils and bluetooth stuff and wifi-related things
[05:44] <TheSheep> KlrSpz: etc.
[05:44] <KlrSpz> hmm ok i guess i'll just use synaptic to show me all installed pkgs, and remove as i see fit
[05:45] <KlrSpz> man i miss gentoo :)
[05:45] <neozen> KlrSpz: and when you remove the wrong thing..... you'll know
[05:45] <neozen> heh.. much love for gentoo
[05:45] <KlrSpz> neozen: hah, in what way? is it recoverable generally? (as long as i don't exit the app)
[05:45] <neozen> ..........depends on what you killed off
[05:45] <KlrSpz> i do have to say though, ubuntu has been a hell of an experience... i just like how modular gentoo is
[05:45] <KlrSpz> figured, ok
[05:45] <neozen> but generally yes...
[05:51] <KlrSpz> ok bbl, hopefully :S
[06:08] <b0lle> Hello!. I cant get my orinoco gold card (inserted into pcmcia) to work (no wireless extensions on lo,eth0 or irda0) but i get some info on Socket 0 when i try 'pccardctl ident'. any ideas?
[08:53] <Merchelo> !paste
[08:53] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[09:34] <zeroflag> I just installed xubuntu-desktop and tightvncserver on a (former) ubuntu 7.04. how can I set tvnc up to serve the active xfce session?
[09:35] <zeroflag> I don't have a monitor connected, only ssh and vnc.
[09:38] <jeriko> 'lo
[09:40] <jeriko> how do i edit the items in the 'system' menu?
[09:43] <zeroflag> err, more basic question... how do I start xfce? possibly automagically?
[09:48] <Scunizi> How do you use Xubuntu to view shared folder on other computers via the LAN?  The other folders are already viewable via smb & nfs in Ubuntu & Kubuntu.. it's just Thunar doesn't have a "Network" folder option like Ubuntu
[10:10] <zoredache> Scunizi: there are a few different ways..  some using fuse to mount things, and one way to use autofs
[10:17] <syed_> hi does anyone know ho to enable pdf thumbnails in xubuntu
[10:17] <zeroflag> how can I turn on xfce on a vnc display?
[10:21] <neozen> zeroflag: share display 0 on vnc
[10:21] <neozen> zeroflag: provided you're running xfce currently
[10:28] <zeroflag> neozen: any details on how to do that?
[10:29] <zeroflag> because I keep getting errors...
[10:29] <neozen> which errors?
[10:30] <zeroflag> Error: Can't open display:
[10:30] <neozen> O.o
[10:30] <zeroflag> no further details...
[10:30] <neozen> ok...
[10:30] <neozen> which vnc server are you using?
[10:30] <zeroflag> (xfdesktop:5458): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
[10:30] <zeroflag> I'd like to use tightvnc because it's working nicely on windows...
[10:31] <neozen> nope
[10:31] <zeroflag> but I'm open for suggestions...
[10:31] <neozen> I believe x11vnc will do what you need
[10:31] <zeroflag> resumeable x/vnc sessions?
[10:31] <neozen> should be able to share out what is currently displayed on your screen (display 0) and allow remote interaction
[10:32] <neozen> if by this you mean multiple sessions of X running..... have no idea
[10:32] <zeroflag> well, there's no display 0 active...
[10:32] <neozen> ....
[10:33] <neozen> how are you starting X?
[10:33] <zeroflag> and I have no idea where to start starting it...
[10:33] <neozen> try running startxfce4 from the console on the machine
[10:34] <neozen> note... I said console..... not a ssh session... but actually typing into a shell on the box from the keyboard attached to it
[10:35] <zeroflag> no such thing. :P
[10:35] <zeroflag> I disabled x forwarding...
[10:42] <jwishnie> Can someone explain to me how to set my language/locale default from English to Spanish?
[10:43] <zeroflag> hmmm...
[10:43] <jwishnie> when I change /etc/default/locale to es_MX.UTF_8
[10:43] <nanonyme> you people noticed this naming conflict? http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/XUbuntu
[10:43] <zeroflag> neozen: I got a vnc connection but no window...
[10:43] <jwishnie> everything still stays english (I have installed spanish language packages)
[11:35] <b0lle> i cant get my wifi card in my pcmcia slot to work (pccardctl works tho) but no wireless extensions avalible and no network controller found in 'lspci' any idea?
[11:54] <F3000> Hi. Anyone here?
[11:58] <F3000> Maison?
[12:06] <F3000> Is there typo in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingXubuntu -- it says "startxfce4", while I was told that it's "start xfce4"?
[12:13] <zoredache> maybe...


[06:24] <xylo> What's a good alternative to clamav for mail server?
[09:36] <effendy[m]> I'd be surprised if there were any non-commercial alternatives to clamav for email
[10:49] <oerheks> just an antivirus is not enough, IMHO
[12:22] <effendy[m]> How does that contradict whatever has been said thus far?