[00:54] <Pici> genii: I'm trying to keep an eye on zealot, he just trolled his way to a +q in #freenode, but if you're watching #ubuntu too, you may want to keep an eye on him as well.
[00:55] <genii> Pici: I'm not strictly on-duty right now but I'll keep an eye open
[00:55] <Pici> genii: looks like Seeker` already has him
[00:55] <Pici> genii: me either, I'm in glass
[00:55] <Pici> er, class
[00:56] <genii> Gah, it begins!
[00:57] <Pici> tsimpson: ty
[00:59] <Seeker`> someone talking to him or not?
[01:00] <tsimpson> Seeker`: yes
[01:01] <Seeker`> any progress?
[01:01] <tsimpson> no
[01:01] <tsimpson> !appeals > zealot
[01:02] <Seeker`> that much fun, eh?
[01:02] <tsimpson> well, I can't repeat what he's calling me...
[01:03] <genii> Heh. I can imagine from his earlier antics
[01:03] <Seeker`> may be worth a comment in the BT then
[01:09] <tsimpson> he may come back with his IPv4 address <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:08] <zealot> hi
[02:08] <zealot> i believe i was very unfairly banned from #ubuntu
[02:08] <zealot> a user was having problems with an install script for his video card drivers
[02:08] <zealot> and it was becuase he was using sudo to run the script
[02:08] <zealot> and i told him to su to root and run it that way
[02:08] <zealot> and everyone flipped out and banned me
[02:09] <zealot> i dont like to get into these vi vs emacs type debates
[02:09] <zealot> but i find it very strange that i would be banned over something like this
[02:11] <zealot> i mean suing to root is basic UNIX stuff
[02:11] <zealot> and they are acting like i let some big cat out of the bag
[02:12] <zealot> and now, becuase of me, all these people are going to be doing everything under their root account
[02:12] <genii> zealot: The operator who gave your ban is currently unavailable, you should try to reach them in here at a later time
[02:12] <zealot> i dont have time for that
[02:13] <zealot> im not gonna sit around trying to contact some op who likes to shoot first and ask questions later
[02:13] <genii> !appeals | zealot
[02:14] <genii> There's your current recourse then.
[02:14] <zealot> what
[02:14] <zealot> why does this channel even exist
[02:14] <zealot> if all you do
[02:14] <zealot> is tell people to go to that site
[02:14] <zealot> im not going through any appeal process
[02:14] <zealot> i would just like to be unbanned
[02:15] <zealot> im not in the mood for any bureaucratic nonsense
[02:15] <zealot> i helped a user with a problem
[02:15] <zealot> and got banned for it
[02:15] <zealot> because my solution was taking sudo out of the equation
[02:16] <zealot> and doing it the tradition unix way
[02:16] <zealot> *traditional
[02:17] <zealot> also i would greatly appreciate it
[02:17] <zealot> if you guys spoke to me directly
[02:17] <zealot> instead of using the bots
[02:17] <zealot> i find it very rude
[02:24] <zealot> yeah just ignore me
[02:24] <zealot> fucking hate this network
[04:35] <bazhang> arch troll in -ot
[04:35] <bazhang> eltimo
[05:42] <Flannel> elky: Except for the threats in query, yeah.  Apparently me knowing who he is would mean he's allowed to behave badly.
[05:42] <elky> oh. one of *that* kind of troll. yays for you.
[07:12] <Myrtti> what are the floodbots doing?
[07:12] <Flannel> dancing?
[07:13] <Flannel> Myrtti: apparently those people are being removed from exploit quarantine
[07:16] <Flannel> Myrtti: We should call the Ghostbusters
[07:16] <Myrtti> indeed
[07:18] <jussi01> I havent looked but Im guessing thats the FB's doing their job and removing bans that are a certain length old
[07:18] <Flannel> jussi01: They're also echoing "Greetings so and so, do your exploit test things" in -read-topic
[07:18] <Flannel> which is what I find odd
[07:18] <Myrtti> the nicknames make me scared
[07:19] <Flannel> Myrtti: there is no k1lbk6, only zuul.
[08:00] <jussi01> Again everyone, please, if you are active in a support channel, join #ubuntu-irc-helpers
[08:03] <Flannel> More IRC channels?
[08:04] <Flannel> jussi01: What's the point of -helpers?
[08:04] <jussi01> Flannel: please see the topic there, my very recent blog post or the announcement that is about to hit the ML
[08:05] <Flannel> psh.
[08:05] <jussi01> http://jussi01.com/?p=75
[08:05] <Flannel> Rather rude
[08:05] <jussi01> :(
[08:05] <jussi01> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/UbuntuIRCHelpers
[08:05] <Flannel> "Go *join the channel* to decide whether you want to join the channel"
[08:05] <Myrtti> would I rather be an op or just a helper
[08:06] <Myrtti> *hmmmmmm*
[08:06] <jussi01> Myrtti: why not *both*
[08:06] <Flannel> I'm really not sure I like all of this stratification and formalization of crap.
[08:07] <Myrtti> jussi01: because the discussion on the mailing list has made me think things over, and if certain things are instituted, I *will* give up my op rights
[08:07] <Flannel> The point of structure is to assist in endeavors, not to be an endeavor in and of itself.  We're getting to the point where it feels like the latter is taking over.
[08:08] <Myrtti> though, this -irc-helpers thing isn't one of the things I'd consider a reason
[08:08] <Myrtti> anyway
[08:08]  * Myrtti omnomnoms Runeberg's tart
[08:08] <jussi01> Flannel: no, I disagree. we are getting to a point where our community is getting so large there is no way we can keep people up to date without documentation.
[08:08]  * jussi01 steals one from Myrtti!
[08:09] <Flannel> jussi01: There are better ways of documenting than creating a bajillion launchpad groups and eight different channels for everything.
[08:09] <Flannel> I don't know about you, but I'm not looking forward to the day that I need to be in #ubuntu-i-help-on-wednesdays or #ubuntu-ops-for-u-and-ot-but-not-during-the-workday
[08:10] <jussi01> Flannel: hrm, so you object to a centralised way of managing access lists and a channel for co-ordination ?
[08:10] <Myrtti> jussi01: I can't fathom why we need both -irc and -irc-helpers
[08:10] <Flannel> jussi01: I object to trying to solve social problems with technical solutions.
[08:12] <Flannel> Myrtti: -irc is for operator-type issues in the greater ubuntu namespace
[08:12] <Flannel> issues/discussion
[08:13] <Mamarok> and what is #ubuntu-meta?
[08:13] <jussi01> Mamarok: where metabot hangs out :D
[08:13] <Flannel> Mamarok: a bot collecting/categorizing unanswered questions, basically.
[08:13] <Mamarok> aha
[08:13] <Myrtti> it's actually useful
[08:13] <jussi01> it is
[08:13] <Myrtti> the others...
[08:13] <Mamarok> hm, looks like I forgot to autojoin the floodbot monitor, what's the channel again for #kubuntu
[08:14] <jussi01> and ljl's new script is nice also
[08:14] <Mamarok> ?
[08:14] <jussi01> #kubuntu-ops-mointor
[08:14] <jussi01> err
[08:14] <jussi01> #kubuntu-ops-monitor
[08:14] <Mamarok> OK, thanks
[08:15] <Myrtti> you know, I soon have more of these ancillary channels than the channels they are meant to make more manageable.
[08:15] <Myrtti> no, wait.
[08:15] <Myrtti> I already do
[08:15] <Myrtti> FAIL
[08:15] <Myrtti> hm, where to start...
[08:15] <jussi01> no, thats not a fail
[08:15] <Myrtti> jussi01: your opinion, to which you are entitled to
[08:16] <Flannel> jussi01: in all honesty, I'm not sure what -irc-helpers will provide that -offtopic wouldn't also be appropriate for.
[08:17] <Flannel> All of the things listed in the blog/email are things I've done/had done/whatever in -ot
[08:18] <Flannel> And if we put it there, it'd get more visibility for helping people, which would likely create more helpers, rather than relegating these discussions to a backroom.
[08:19] <Mamarok> and why not #ubuntu-irc? It is low traffic anyway
[08:19] <jussi01> -ot is a crazy, busy, place, why would we want to put helper education and "backstage ubuntu" in there?
[08:20] <Flannel> It's not that busy.  The dull-roar of idiocracy goes away whenever real conversations/discussions/whatever are had there.
[08:21] <Flannel> jussi01: I'm not sure what sort of education or 'backstage' activities you're imagining, but I really don't see why -ot doesn't already fit the bill.
[08:21] <Myrtti> I can't understand why we couldn't use -irc for helper education and backstage ubuntu? it wouldn't be a bad idea to do cross pollination of locos and core channels, and helper education
[08:21] <Myrtti> if locos do something better than we do, then we could learn
[08:21] <Mamarok> yep, my idea, too
[08:21] <Flannel> Myrtti: irc is for operators for locos and things, just because its an empty channel doesn't mean we should claim eminent domain
[08:21] <mneptok> so ....
[08:22] <mneptok> why does #ubuntu-classroom exist for things like Open Week?
[08:22] <Mamarok> yet another channel, I already have a list that goes way beyond the channel window, with a high resolution screen :(
[08:22] <mneptok> by the logic expressed here, Open Week should just be held in #ubuntu.
[08:22] <Flannel> mneptok: Eh?
[08:22] <Mamarok> oh my, that would be completely nuts
[08:22] <mneptok> Mamarok: exactly.
[08:22] <Flannel> mneptok: Open Week is education, not support.
[08:23] <Flannel> mneptok: Stop trolling.
[08:23] <Mamarok> mneptok: but OpenWeek are classes, so classroom is logical
[08:23] <mneptok> Flannel: support, when done properly, is mostly education.
[08:24] <Flannel> mneptok: No, support is fixing issues and educating about how linux works, etc.  Open week is mostly how 'community' works, even if technically oriented
[08:24] <Myrtti> Flannel: I guess I just don't understand -irc-helpers at all then.
[08:24] <Myrtti> in fact, I don't think I understand how this community works anymore anyway, so nothing new there, then.
[08:24] <Flannel> mneptok: I wouldn't classify teaching someone to triage bugs as "technical support"
[08:25] <mneptok> Flannel: jussi01 and i ran a session on using IRC effectively. that's education, and also quite a frequent topic on #ubuntu.
[08:25] <Myrtti> we're shutting eachother off to different enclosures and preventing co-operation, spreading ourselves thin and assuming that that's the way to go.
[08:26] <Myrtti> I wouldn't be here if I wouldn't have been an op on -fi and wandered my way here so many years ago
[08:26] <Flannel> mneptok: No, it really doesn't "belong" in ubuntu, but the cost/benefit ratio is too low to move the new users elsewhere before teaching them (and its generally a short lesson)
[08:27] <Myrtti> I can't understand why we couldn't consider loco ops as helpers too. if their locos consider them apt to be operators, then it wouldn't be too far fetched to consider that they might actually be apt and intrested in being an op on core channels too
[08:27] <Flannel> mneptok: You can split hairs all you want, and find edge cases, but if you weren't looking to be contrary, you wouldn't generalize that way.
[08:27] <Myrtti> but what do I know
[08:27] <mneptok> #ubuntu-offtopic is a channel for topics that are not appropriate for a support channel. and need not be Ubuntu related. #-irc-helpers is a channel for educating interested users who are not part of the ops team to be better support providers and channel regulars. those two purposes are, in many senses, mutually exclusive.
[08:28] <jussi01> Flannel: we are looking for ways to do a few things here: 1. educate helpers. 2. build relations between helpers and ops. 3. take unecessary, non support trafic from #ubuntu. this channel does all of the above.
[08:28] <mneptok> #-irc-helpers has to be related to the functioning of #ubuntu and other support channels. "the iPad is a lame device!" is fine for -offtopic, it is not for -helpers.
[08:28] <Flannel> mneptok: What -irc-helpers was proposed as is something that *already* happens in -offtopic, splitting it off into a different channel seems wasteful
[08:29] <mneptok> Flannel: i'm only "looking to be contrary" in the sense that i don;t agree with you. not all people that disagree with you are trolls by definition.
[08:29] <jussi01> Flannel: example: I talk to mneptok and you down the pub, and we get educated. does this mean we shouldnt have a training room also, just cause there are loads of people down the pub?
[08:29] <Flannel> mneptok: No, they're not.  But you're being asinine about your proposals.
[08:30] <mneptok> Flannel: i see no reason to make this personal.
[08:32]  * Myrtti considers
[08:32] <Flannel> jussi01: It already happens in -ot, we've been looking to "revitalize" -ot anyway.  Heaven forbid 25% more traffic happens in there and DrDerek can't sit for 20 minutes listing off youtube videos uninterrupted.
[08:32] <jussi01> Flannel: so, taking my examle again, you think that we should just integrate the training room into the pub?
[08:33] <Flannel> jussi01: Just because it happens to be a pub doesn't mean you can't invite some more people there to chat about intelligent things.
[08:34] <Flannel> jussi01: LoCos educate in pubs all the time
[08:34] <Mamarok> jussi01: seriously, why nbot #ubuntu-irc? It is already low traffic
[08:34] <Mamarok> not*
[08:34] <Mamarok> I am weary of yet another channel every 2 weeks, it splits of the effort and we are already there by defautl
[08:35] <Mamarok> what's next, the #ubuntu-advanced? the -beginners already is unusable IMHO
[08:35] <Myrtti> oh boy, this makes me laugh
[08:35] <Flannel> jussi01: I can just see this turning into a "take it to -irc-helpers" comments from -ot.  People don't want to be in four channels just so they can give support and socialize.
[08:36] <Mamarok> Flannel: but in -ot would really be the wrong place
[08:36] <Flannel> (You are advocating four channels right now if they want to socialize and provide support, #u, -ot, -irc-helpers, -meta.  that's a *lot* to ask for volunteers)
[08:36] <Flannel> Mamarok: It's what the bulk of -ot used to be, ironically enough.
[08:36]  * jussi01 thinks people fail to realise how big this community is, and that we cant just have our little corner here, and do things without organisation.
[08:36] <Mamarok> so again, why not -irc?
[08:36] <jussi01> Flannel: no its not.
[08:37] <Mamarok> jussi01: I think we don't fail to realise that at all, we are in a bazillion channels already
[08:37] <mneptok> Mamarok: if i am banned from #ubuntu-us-nm (or any other loco channel) then -irc is used for such things
[08:38] <Myrtti> oh no, we should use QUERY FOR SUCH THINGS!
[08:38] <Myrtti> SISSIES
[08:38] <Myrtti> *DING*
[08:38] <Myrtti> btw, mirctr people on #ubuntu again
[08:38] <Myrtti> !staff | ^  mirctr warriors?
[08:39] <mneptok> Myrtti: ban the ident?
[08:39] <Myrtti> mneptok: can you think of a quick way of kicking them too?
[08:40] <Myrtti> yeah.
[08:42] <mneptok> think i got 'em all
[08:42] <Myrtti> the problem with this is that I'd love to know if they are up to something or not
[08:43] <mneptok> mIRC users from Turkey? if they're not up to something, it's because they are only awaiting instructions.
[08:43] <Myrtti> oh, looking at #freenode, someone reported that they query spammed in turkis
[08:43] <Myrtti> h
[08:44] <Myrtti> [10:42] < FrozenFire> "of burasý çok sýkýcý diðer tarafa gecelim ekle >>>>>  tugce213"
[08:44] <Myrtti> told him to join #ubuntu-ops the next time to report it
[08:44]  * mneptok bats his eylashes at Myrtti
[08:45] <Madpilot> what's the situation with ops powa in the shiny new -irc-helpers?
[08:58]  * Myrtti pours a bit of brandy in her coffee
[08:58] <Mamarok> at 10:58? wow :)
[08:58] <Madpilot> starting the day off right, Myrtti?
[08:59] <Myrtti> I think the discussion on the mailing list and here requires me to strengthen myself
[08:59]  * jussi01 wanders off for lunch
[09:00]  * Mamarok really needs a script for konversation
[09:01] <Madpilot> Myrtti, the sun's always over the yardarm somewhere, right?
[09:01] <Mamarok> my scripting abilities are very, very little
[09:01] <Myrtti> besides, if I'd be really foolhardy, I'd have some of fernet branca.
[09:01] <Myrtti> that would be HC
[09:01] <Mamarok> Myrtti: make it a hot Fernet Branca :)
[09:57] <Myrtti> one wonders what [11:56] ~~~ubuntuCEO<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is up to
[10:17] <Myrtti> bazhang: welcome to the wonderful world of GuadaLinex users
[10:17] <bazhang> Myrtti, hehe
[10:18] <Myrtti> I was about to mute 49.Red-80-24-67.staticIP.rima-tde.net
[10:18] <bazhang> haha
[10:19] <Myrtti> enough of this
[10:20] <Myrtti> aaaaah. blessed silence
[10:33]  * elky scrambles to touch wood.
[10:34] <jpds> elky: Why not torchwood?
[10:41] <Myrtti> anyone with floodbot fu?
[10:41] <Myrtti> they've gone bonkers
[10:41] <jussi01> Myrtti: whats needed?
[10:46] <elky> jpds, why yes being armed with a piece of flaming wood would be somewhat comforting the next time b decides to ask #f for global announce privs.
[10:46] <bazhang> -ot is good for something after all
[10:49] <Myrtti> OOO MAIL
[10:50] <elky> jpds, he's moaning about trolls now, and i'm cacking myself again
[11:49] <Myrtti> is there a common opinion on should we do guard off on the core channels?
[12:06] <Seeker`> huh? "guard off"
[12:08] <Myrtti> Seeker`: read: tell Chanserv to get out from the channel
[12:08] <Myrtti> uhoh
[12:08] <Myrtti> benhur...
[12:09] <Myrtti> that ident makes me shiver
[12:21] <tsimpson> Myrtti: you only really need guard on if you expect the channel to become empty at sometime
[12:21] <tsimpson> mostly to preserve modes and topic
[12:21] <Myrtti> tsimpson: yes, I know, which is why I asked if there is a common opinion. #xubuntu has chanserv on it.
[12:23] <tsimpson> I don't think we have a policy on it, it's up to the channel
[12:23] <tsimpson> it doesn't make much of a difference to how the channel work
[12:23] <tsimpson> +s
[12:25] <Seeker`> if there is a pote tial benefit from havibg it there and no disadvabtage, why remove it?
[13:09] <MenZa> tsimpson: there's a channel mode now to preserve that, iirc
[13:09] <MenZa> +P
[13:10] <MenZa> +P (permanent channel) This mode may only be set by freenode staff. Once set, the channel will not be deleted when it becomes empty. Additionally, the +b, +e, +I and +q lists have higher capacity to make channel forwarding easier. NOTE: Permanent channels could still be erased by catastrophic network failures.
[13:21] <tsimpson> MenZa: yeah, but that needs staff intervention
[13:23] <MenZa> tsimpson: oh sure, but that's not something we generally have problems with -- after all, we are the biggest namespace. ;)
[13:28] <Myrtti> must    not    kill     everyone      spanish
[13:33] <jussi01> Myrtti: take a break if you need it! :)
[13:35] <Myrtti> sadly, my annoyance of people who can't understand their native language enough to get the point that the channel is English only and would prefer the discussion on their native language to happen elsewhere, doesn't go away no matter how long break I take. I've got this thing with lack of reading comprehension, which I think is a bad thing for an IRC user to have, that annoys me.
[13:47] <Myrtti> oh christ
[13:53]  * MenZa hugs Myrtti
[14:00] <Myrtti> I'm going to clear out some of the mutes
[14:00] <Pici> okay
[14:12] <Myrtti> QED.
[14:25] <christel> MenZa: +P isnt new! it was a hyperionism we decided to keep with seven, been around since forevar :)
[14:25] <jpds> #bzr has it for example.
[15:00] <MenZa> christel: sshhh
[15:11] <Pici> holllaaaaaa
[15:11] <Myrtti> STOP! HOLA TIME!
[15:11] <Pici> :D
[15:11] <Myrtti> ;___________________;
[15:11] <Pici> ._________.
[15:12] <jpds> Myrtti: You don't want to know what he just said.
[15:12]  * Myrtti weeps on jpds' shoulder
[15:13] <Myrtti> jpds: good thing google fails in translation, then
[15:13] <Pici> I was just going to say that
[15:13] <jpds> Myrtti: That's cause he got the spelling wrong too.
[15:13] <Myrtti> how come I'm not surprised
[15:14] <Myrtti> I wonder, would Portugal mind if their amount of seacoast would increase a bit, like, double?
[15:20] <Pici> blarghghghfffl
[15:20]  * Myrtti laughs hysterically
[15:21] <Myrtti> Pici: "take a break if you need it! :)"
[15:22] <Pici> I almost /removed myself for the heck of it
[15:23] <Myrtti> bets are in, how many minutes until the next HOLA TIEM? prize: an energy drink effervascent tablet!
[15:36] <Pici> Myrtti: Do you have a moment for a pm?
[15:36] <Myrtti> sure
[15:38] <jpds> Myrtti: ...
[15:39] <jpds> Myrtti: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=9278
[15:39] <Myrtti> oo, scary blue screen
[15:40] <Myrtti> a scary blue login screen
[15:40] <Pici> ubuntu/ubuntu
[15:41] <Pici> hehe
[15:41] <Myrtti> it's all foreign :-( *google translate*
[15:42] <jpds> Reading guadalinex was bad enough for me.
[15:43] <Pici> How did they even find the rt@ address?
[15:44] <jpds> They didn't.
[15:45] <maco> er.. <Freenode:#ubuntu> Homely_Girl needs to find an eligible geek in west Wales! :)  <-- would it be wrong to ask her to be a little less flirtatious?
[15:45] <Pici> oh, that was to mailman
[15:45] <jpds> maco: Not when she's left, no.
[15:45] <Pici> maco: if you need to say something, probably best to do it in pm to prevent a convesation in #ubuntu about it.
[15:45] <maco> i recall her saying something like "i'll love whichever one of you guys help me" and i said "what if its not a guy?" and she said "i dont go that way" or something
[16:34] <Pici> oh dear
[17:23] <Trek> it seems that somehow someone spoofed the host name of my laptop, and spammed #ubuntu, resulting in a ban on the host name.  This causes an issue when my connection drops everysooften, preventing my alternate nickname from connecting.  any way to resolve this?
[17:26] <jpds> 17:20:34 [!] Netsplit *.net <-> *.split ← awesome.
[17:31] <Trek> repost: it seems that somehow someone spoofed the host name of my laptop, and spammed #ubuntu, resulting in a ban on the host name.  This causes an issue when my connection drops everysooften, preventing my alternate nickname from connecting.  any way to resolve this?
[17:32] <Trek> or do I go bother #ubuntu-irf?
[17:32] <Trek> or do I go bother #ubuntu-irc *?
[17:37] <Trek> repost: it seems that somehow someone spoofed the host name of my laptop, and spammed #ubuntu, resulting in a ban on the host name.  This causes an issue when my connection drops everysooften, preventing my alternate nickname from connecting.  any way to resolve this?
[17:44] <SpaceGhostC2C> Quick question, should we report the ctcp thingies from other people?
[18:42] <Seeker`> Where was the CTCP thingy sent from?
[18:47] <SpaceGhostC2C> To myself. should I paste the line?
[18:48] <SpaceGhostC2C> * Received a CTCP VERSION from frigg
[18:48] <SpaceGhostC2C> That's really all I got.
[18:52] <Pici> SpaceGhostC2C: frigg is a freenode service bot
[18:53] <SpaceGhostC2C> Pici, okay. I was just wondering. Sorry about that.
[18:53] <Pici> SpaceGhostC2C: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#freenodeconnect
[18:53] <SpaceGhostC2C> Thank you.
[19:21]  * Pici sighs
[19:23]  * MenZa hugs Pici
[20:57] <jpds> http://stats.bit.nl/munin/dmz.bit.nl/ubuntu.dmz.bit.nl-trackerstats.html
[23:12] <hunt> Hi, I tried to join #kubuntu but I get the message that I'm banned, the thing is... I've never ever been in #kubuntu before...
[23:14] <ikonia> hunt: it's because you're using the web gateway
[23:14] <ikonia> hunt: the floodbots should allow you access but it appears they have not, one moment please
[23:15] <ikonia> hunt: could you leave #ubuntu and try to join #kubuntu it should forward you to another channel
[23:17] <hunt> +ikonia: [16:16] == #kubuntu  Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned
[23:23] <hunt> it doesnt work
[23:27] <hunt> any other advise what I could do?
[23:30] <jpds> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+lang/tlh
[23:37] <tsimpson> hunt: try again now
[23:38] <hunt> worked thanks :)
[23:38] <tsimpson> I don't really know why it didn't, but oh well


[03:35] <pleia2> so, I have a lot of planet posts to get through to flesh out the google doc
[03:36] <pleia2> hopefully my internet will stop being horrible (comcast is sending out a second tech tonight)
[03:36] <pleia2> otherwise I'll do some coffee shop hopping tomorrow ;)
[03:37] <pleia2> there are 5 starbucks' in the 2 block radius, plus independent shops, if I order a small thing in each one...
[04:12] <nhandler> I'll update the non-article sections
[04:17] <pleia2> thanks, you can try out my new security script :)
[04:32] <nhandler> pleia2: I already did ;) I still want to improve them a bit. I had to manually go through the list to find the ones for the past week.
[07:52] <NRWlion> \o/
[14:36]  * NRWlion waves into the round
[19:24] <NRWlion> any1 there?
[21:15] <pleia2> ok, populating the doc with some new planet stuff now
[21:33] <pleia2> pulled brainstorm and ask ubuntu stuff from last week, we can fill that in again tomorrow
[21:33] <pleia2> we'll need the "ubuntu stats" there for now so tomorrow we can update with +/- "since last issue"
[21:33] <pleia2> or since last week
[22:01] <pleia2> "In other news" seems to be all generic "linux" news, how do we feel about that?
[22:02] <holstein> pleia2: i put some in like that
[22:02] <holstein> some things i thought were relavant
[22:02] <holstein> unless you wiped it all
[22:02]  * holstein looking
[22:02] <pleia2> didn't wipe anything :)
[22:02] <pleia2> just added
[22:03] <pleia2> anyway, everything I liked from planet is now there
[22:03] <pleia2> need summaries :)
[22:03] <holstein> yeah... i was just trying to find things
[22:03] <holstein> blow those out as you see fit
[22:03] <pleia2> oh, I did delete the link to the FCM podcast (we covered it last issue)
[22:04] <holstein> i was grabbing and summarizing as i went over the weekend
[22:11] <pleia2> cool
[22:12] <pleia2> I'm going to wander off and work on other things, tomorrow morning I'll check back on how we're doing summary-wise, and maybe see if I can find some more news articles
[22:12] <pleia2> we're looking good though


[03:35] <mhall119> highvoltage, got my first Qimo 2.0 packages built!
[14:01] <mhall119> so Scratch doesn't look to be in the repos, anybody have suggestions on something I can use in place of eToys?
[14:38] <mhall119> highvoltage, ping
[22:50] <AlanBell> I am playing with wiimote whiteboard stuff at the moment
[22:50] <AlanBell> it would be rather good to get it packaged for Ubuntu
[22:52] <AlanBell> it is a python app, with a few dependencies, all in the repos
[22:53] <AlanBell> http://github.com/pnegre/python-whiteboard
[22:54] <AlanBell> there is also this one http://www.stepd.ca/gtkwhiteboard/
[22:55] <AlanBell> I will have a go at packaging it at some point in the next few weeks
[22:55] <AlanBell> but I am a bit of a newbie to the whole packaging thing. If anyone wants to help that would be great.
[22:57] <AlanBell> I think it would be amazing if someone could install Ubuntu, install the whiteboard app and then with a wiimote and a projector and a £10 IR pen have an interactive whiteboard
[22:59] <stgraber> As been a while I wanted to test that though haven't had the chance yet
[22:59] <stgraber> at this point, it's extremely unlikely something new enters Lucid as we have our Feature Freeze on Thursday but it's clearly something we should look at, east least for Lucid+1
[23:01] <alkisg> AlanBell: did those apps work for you?
[23:13] <stgraber> alkisg: I just did a test with VBox, it booted just fine ...
[23:14] <alkisg> stgraber: hmm... except for that vbox problem, I also have a problem with tftpd-hpa not starting at boot.
[23:14] <alkisg> stgraber: what settings do you use in vbox?
[23:14] <alkisg> networking / pae etc?
[23:15] <stgraber> alkisg: I used the usual one, bridged using the VT extension of my CPU, PAE enabled + 3D graphic
[23:15] <stgraber> alkisg: http://pastebin.com/f69a74c92
[23:15]  * alkisg shrugs... I can reproduce the problem here 100% - removing nbd-proxy make it work, reinstalling it make it halt
[23:16] <stgraber> alkisg: can you try: ltsp-update-image --arch i386 -n
[23:16] <stgraber> I'm wondering if that's my use of -n that solves the issue ;)
[23:16] <stgraber> (as it had fixed quite a lot of stability issue for me in the past)
[23:17] <alkisg> trying...
[23:17] <alkisg> (btw do you see any speed difference with -n? )
[23:18] <stgraber> not really no, it's using slightly more bandwidth and less CPU but that's about it
[23:18] <stgraber> though most squashfs issues I had sometime, completely vanished once I started using -n
[23:18] <runout> hi, for the wii whiteboard i found some packages which did not work. they claim to have a problem with the bluetooth stack of bluez
[23:19] <runout> following seems to work (last post with download) http://code.google.com/p/linux-whiteboard/issues/detail?id=22
[23:23] <alkisg> stgraber: nah, the same
[23:23] <alkisg> bs=1024, sz=537016, and then hangs
[23:25] <stgraber> alkisg: can you boot without nbd-proxy, then do:
[23:25] <stgraber> - nbd-proxy <server ip> 2000 2000
[23:25] <stgraber> - nbd-client /dev/nbd1 <IP_ADDRESS> 2001
[23:25] <stgraber> - mkdir -p /mnt/test
[23:25] <stgraber> - mount /dev/nbd1 /mnt/test
[23:25] <alkisg> With break=mount ?
[23:25] <stgraber> something should fail at some point doing that
[23:26] <stgraber> alkisg: nope, just boot the thin client as usual and do that from the shell
[23:26] <alkisg> ok
[23:26] <stgraber> it won't disconnect the existing nbd connection so it shouldn't be a problem
[23:26] <alkisg> btw I also tried with your client (.xml), no difference
[23:28]  * alkisg also notes that he's using the default generic-pae kernel... (i386)
[23:29] <stgraber> I'm on Lucid amd64 on my laptop (where the VM was running), actual thin client is an Intel Atom one with 512MB of RAM and gigabit network to the server
[23:29] <stgraber> I have 10 or so of them at the office running on Lucid, some as thin client, some as fat. All with the latest packages from my PPA
[23:31] <alkisg> nbd-proxy <IP_ADDRESS> 2000 2000
[23:31] <alkisg> Hangup
[23:32] <alkisg> From syslog: Feb 14 01:32:29 alkis nbd_server[11106]: Read failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device
[23:33] <stgraber> alkisg: interesting, that's lucid 32bit right ?
[23:33] <alkisg> Yup
[23:33] <stgraber> I'll get you a debug version then, hang on a sec
[23:35] <stgraber> alkisg: http://www.stgraber.org/download/nbd-proxy
[23:35] <stgraber> alkisg: make it executable and run it with: ./nbd-proxy <IP_ADDRESS> 2000 2000 2> debug.log
[23:36] <stgraber> you should then have a full debug log in debug.log
[23:36] <alkisg> stgraber: I tried again the same line (with the original nbd-proxy) and it worked!
[23:36] <stgraber> hmm, something is really wrong then ...
[23:36] <stgraber> so running the same thing two times failed the first time and worked the second ?
[23:36] <alkisg> Yes
[23:37] <alkisg> Let me reboot and test it again...
[23:38] <alkisg> Yes, again the same thing
[23:38] <alkisg> (so a quick fix would be to run it twice :P)
[23:38] <alkisg> ok, putting the debug version...
[23:38] <stgraber> does it die the first time ?
[23:38] <stgraber> it's supposed to fork into background
[23:38] <stgraber> so you would have to check with "ps aux"
[23:39] <alkisg> It just says "Hangup" - I didn't look at ps
[23:39] <alkisg> The second time, it doesn't fork to the background
[23:39] <alkisg> It just waits - I thought it woulnd't fork..
[23:39] <stgraber> hmm, ok, so it's actually behaving as it should ...
[23:40] <stgraber> it's supposed to fork and say "hangup" (I don't remember why the "hangup")
[23:40] <stgraber> and if it's already running, then it'll hang until the previous instance is killed
[23:40] <stgraber> (as it can't listen twice on the same port)
[23:40] <alkisg> Ah
[23:40] <alkisg> Yeah, I see it on the processes list
[23:40] <stgraber> what's happening if you do that nbd-client ?
[23:41] <alkisg> Error: cannot open NBD: No such file or directory
[23:41] <alkisg> Please ensure the 'nbd' module is loaded.
[23:41] <alkisg> with: nbd-client /dev/nbd1 <IP_ADDRESS> 2001
[23:42] <stgraber> my bad
[23:42] <stgraber> nbd-client <IP_ADDRESS> 2001 /dev/nbd1
[23:42] <stgraber> that should work better
[23:42] <alkisg> Error: Connect: Connection refused
[23:42] <alkisg> should that be 2001 or 2000?
[23:43] <stgraber> yeah ... seems like I'm half-asleep and it's not even late here ... :)
[23:43] <alkisg> with 2000 it connects but I get a whole lot of errors
[23:43] <stgraber> what kind of error ?
[23:43] <alkisg> Buffer I/O error on device nbd1, logical block 1
[23:44] <alkisg> nbd1: Attempted send on closed socket
[23:44] <stgraber> oh, interesting
[23:44] <stgraber> is nbd-proxy still running ?
[23:44] <alkisg> Uh, ok, pressing ctrl+z / bg to check...
[23:45] <alkisg> Yes, it is
[23:45] <stgraber> ok, then I'm going to need some debug info I guess ;)
[23:45] <alkisg> nbd-client died though. I rerun it and now it hanged on "Negotiation:"
[23:45] <stgraber> restart the VM to get the kernel in a sane state
[23:45] <alkisg> stgraber: I can also give you vnc access if you want...
[23:46] <stgraber> alkisg: that'd be great
[23:46] <alkisg> I usually do it with x11vnc -connect, but you'd need vncviewer -listen and a port forwarding for that, any other ideas?
[23:47] <alkisg> Ah, silly me
[23:47] <alkisg> Sorry, I'll just port forward 5900


[00:56] <shaunm> Darkwing: there hasn't been any real change to xml2po in over a year
[06:12] <bkerensa> jbicha: How in-depth do we want to go on this privacy panel doc? Do we need a screenshot?
[11:47] <dpm> hi jbicha, how's it going? Do you think you'll have time to update the status of the docs pages some time today? It'd be really helpful for us to know which pages we can start translating and which ones we should wait for until the new freeze
[11:53] <jbicha> dpm: good morning, I was too exhausted yesterday and went to bed early, but yes it's at the top of my list
[11:54] <dpm> awesome, thanks jbicha! Hopefully you're fully recovered after a good night sleep :)
[11:54] <jbicha> dpm: yes I feel a lot better :)
[11:54] <dpm> :-)
[13:48] <jbicha> dpm: ok, should be done now, I'll send the email out later today
[13:49] <dpm> brilliant, thanks a lot for your help jbicha, I really appreciate it!
[15:55] <peppe84> hi. about ubuntu-docs. in this page javascipt doesn't work: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/build/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html
[15:55] <peppe84> this is a know issue?
[15:57] <peppe84> peraphs seems that yelp-data-ui-expander class doesn't exist and also /js/main.js doesn't exist
[16:04] <dpm> peppe84, how often do you update that website?
[16:05] <peppe84> dpm, now
[16:06] <dpm> peppe84, ok cool. But in general, how often it is updated? Is it done on a cron job that pulls the docs branch and rebuilds the html pages daily, or do you do that manually every now and then?
[16:06] <peppe84> dpm, i have found the problem! so:
[16:07] <peppe84> in ubuntu.xsl al line 712 replace main.js with yelp.js. also comment line 630
[16:07] <peppe84> now it's work
[16:08] <dpm> cool
[16:08] <peppe84> here a demo http://<IP_ADDRESS>/build/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html
[16:09] <peppe84> I can propose a merge if you want
[16:11] <dpm> peppe84, I'm not from the docs team, but I would suggest proposing a merge, yes
[16:11] <dpm> peppe84, did you see my question earlier about how often the site is updated? ^^
[16:14] <peppe84> dpm, i'll do.
[16:14] <peppe84> dpm, i don't know. at this time I work on the new italian template: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/www/12.04/desktop/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html
[16:19] <jbicha> peppe84: are you running that site on Precise? some things in the Precise help require the new yelp-xsl I believe
[16:20] <peppe84> jbicha, Hi :-) I build on a precise machine and yes: yelp-xsl is installed.
[16:21] <jbicha> ok, I haven't tried building the html help for precise yet, you can submit a merge proposal about lp:ubuntu-docs if something on our end isn't working
[16:24] <peppe84> jbicha, here you are :-) https://code.launchpad.net/~giuseppeterrasi/ubuntu-docs/fixjs/+merge/99068
[16:24] <jbicha> cool, thanks, bye for now
[16:25] <peppe84> bye :-)
[17:05] <philipballew_> I want to take the Lubuntu documentation and make it available offline. Is there a easy way to do this?