[05:23] <flan> http://uguu.ca/245/another-quickshot-teaser/
[05:23] <flan> I think it's starting to look almost pretty.
[06:27] <nisshh> humphreybc: i hope we didnt have a meeting this weekend, did we?
[06:35] <humphreybc> nope
[13:53] <ubuntujenkins> !ping
[13:53] <manualbot> pong
[13:53] <ubuntujenkins> !ping
[13:54]  * ubuntujenkins thinks manualbot is not very fast at ping pong
[13:56] <ChrisWoollard> !pong
[13:56] <manualbot> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
[14:52] <flan> ubuntujenkins, http://uguu.ca/245/another-quickshot-teaser/
[14:52] <flan> Any ideas on things that could make that more intuitive?
[14:53] <flan> Layout-wise.
[14:55] <ubuntujenkins> that looks great, perhaps add the full language name next to the language code
[14:57] <flan> Would that really matter to an admin?
[14:57] <flan> (Trying to weigh space and clutter versus practicality)
[14:59] <ubuntujenkins> hmm not sure i do have to look up which one is which . Just if the person has no clue, the manual team deals with lanaguage codes as thats how we build them. other teams may not be use to them. on builds.ubuntu-manual.org does not look bad
[14:59] <ubuntujenkins> some are a bit long
[15:00] <ubuntujenkins> I am not liking glade at the moment it is proving very hard to get things correct
[15:02] <flan> Out of curiosity, since you know more about it than I do, what, exactly, does Babel give us?
[15:02] <flan> I get that it translates the name of the working language, but does it offer anything else?
[15:02] <flan> I'm thinking that maybe we could just remove it and get Turkish working that way.
[15:03] <flan> Or alternatively wrap it in an ImportError-handler and fall back to plain language codes.
[15:03] <flan> I mean, most people should be able to recognize their language code, even if they don't normally use Roman characters.
[15:04] <flan> Most people who'd be helping a multi-lingual documentation project*
[15:04] <ubuntujenkins> Babel gives us the language code in a pretty word. Thats all i know. We have a contigent for if bebal does not know what it is and that just shows the code. It does give us more hassle than it is worth
[15:06] <flan> So, yeah, since we don't actually need the decimal module or pickle for anything we do natively, if you wrap babel's import in a "try: import babel; except ImportError: babel = None" block, then test to see if it has a value before attempting to use it, the Turkish issue should go away.
[15:06] <flan> Without impacting anything else.
[15:06] <flan> Except other languages that might break with it.
[15:06] <flan> But those will just fall back to language code.
[15:07] <ubuntujenkins> Yea I think that would be a good idea
[15:07] <flan> Can you hack that or do you want me to do it during lunch?
[15:07] <flan> It should be pretty simple.
[15:09] <ubuntujenkins> I will give it ago and see how i get on
[15:09] <flan> We should also consider dropping babel as a requirement for 1.0, if we can't really justify it. It adds 1.8MB and we're only using, like, maybe 2K of that.
[15:09] <flan> We might be able to just rip its language table out of the source and parse it ourselves.
[15:11] <ubuntujenkins> yea another good idea.
[15:13] <_ubuntujenkins> not much is translated in turkish
[15:14] <flan> Well, we probably can't expect much in non-Western languages this early in the project's lifecycle.
[15:19] <_ubuntujenkins> fixed that bug all you need to do is add
[15:19] <_ubuntujenkins>         except KeyError:
[15:19] <_ubuntujenkins>             #This happens because of a python error for turkish
[15:19] <_ubuntujenkins>             pass
[15:19] <_ubuntujenkins> in line 346
[15:19] <flan> So Babel imports fine?
[15:19] <_ubuntujenkins> yep
[15:19] <_ubuntujenkins> we already have a work around for latin there
[15:20] <flan> Oh, I see what you did.
[15:20] <flan> A bit hackish, but it'll do.
[15:20] <flan> (Since we'll be dropping that logic anyway)
[15:20] <_ubuntujenkins> I would not have been able to work that out a 6 months ago :)
[15:21] <flan> Hacks are a great way to learn.
[15:21] <_ubuntujenkins> I suppose i should to a bug fix release?
[15:21] <_ubuntujenkins> brb
[15:21] <flan> They teach more about good design than rigourous adherence to "best practises" without actually learning why those practises are best.
[15:22] <ubuntujenkins> xchat has got bad some how _ubuntujenkins and flan are both yellow
[15:38] <ubuntujenkins> sweet that package should be built in the ppa and ready for people to update in 30mins
[15:50] <c7p> hello all
[16:04] <flan> Yay.
[16:04] <flan> I hope it works.
[16:04] <flan> Hi, c7p.
[16:09] <ubuntujenkins> hey c7p have you looked at builds.ubuntu-manual.org it looks like kevin has done some of the things on the list. like adding revision number and date on two lines. Also I have an issue with building at the moment I get japanese letters in the index to the left of evince
[16:14] <c7p> hey ubuntujenkins I was afk
[16:15] <c7p> yap revision stuff is ok :)
[16:17] <c7p> I don't know why japanese letters appear on your index :(
[16:17] <ubuntujenkins> neither do i I need to grad godbyk on that one
[16:18] <c7p> do you use the script I sent you yesterday ?
[16:19] <ubuntujenkins> yep, I had this problem before i think its my latex install
[16:20] <c7p> maybe
[16:24] <c7p> hm I think we should try eliminating  those 4 warnings during the build (http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/). What do you think ?
[16:29] <ubuntujenkins> I will have a look
[16:32] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: I am not sure which warnings the 4 is on about if you look for the word "warning" in the log file there is loads of them.
[16:34] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: yes, exclude those about margin notes
[16:35] <ubuntujenkins> ok lets make a list
[16:35] <ubuntujenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/elerrors
[16:36] <c7p> ubuntujenkins do you have the link of the list of things that have to be done before the release of a translation edition handy ?
[16:37] <ubuntujenkins> yep just get it
[16:37] <ubuntujenkins> .ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo
[16:37] <ubuntujenkins> pad.ubuntu-uk.org/translationtodo
[16:38] <c7p> ty
[16:40] <ubuntujenkins> all the non margin errors are no on the pad
[16:41] <c7p> ok nice
[16:43] <c7p> why they are more than 4 ?
[16:44] <ubuntujenkins> no clue
[16:45] <c7p> :/ it's so ... I don't know ... confusing
[16:45] <ubuntujenkins> yep this is definatley a godbyk job i am afraid
[16:46] <c7p> probably
[16:46] <c7p> can you make a similar list of the warnings from http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-de.log ?
[16:47] <ubuntujenkins> sure
[16:47] <c7p> so we can compare the warnings if there are any on german build
[16:47] <ubuntujenkins> I will do later as my sister is steeling my laptop
[16:47] <c7p> :p ok
[16:48] <c7p> brb in 10 min. ok ?
[17:11]  * c7p back
[17:13] <flan> That was twenty-two minutes.
[17:13]  * flan can't trust you anymore.
[17:14] <c7p> :p
[17:14] <c7p> i was waiting 12 minutes for the ok
[17:14] <c7p> 12 mins is ok timeout haha
[18:17] <ubuntujenkins> I will be back after dinner etc
[21:17]  * ubuntujenkins has got his laptop back at last
[21:17] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
[21:39]  * ubuntujenkins still uses ctrl+s automatically even on etherpad
[21:58] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: hello i made i back and have made the german list
[21:58] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: good job :D ty
[21:58] <ubuntujenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/elerrors
[21:59] <c7p> the sixth warning doesn't exist
[22:00] <c7p> we use different font so we are ok
[22:00] <c7p> the same thing happens with 3rd and 4th warning
[22:00] <ubuntujenkins> the 4th is the same as the 6th, when did the font change?
[22:01] <c7p> from almost the beggining
[22:01] <c7p> because we had a problem with greek letters
[22:02] <c7p> some letters where highlighted while others not
[22:02] <ubuntujenkins> why is it not the same in builds.ubuntu-manual.org ? we must still be using the old font somewhere i guess
[22:02] <c7p> no
[22:02] <daker> check that we must still be using the old font somewhere i guess
[22:02] <c7p> but let me check it
[22:03] <daker> sorry
[22:03] <daker> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/download-free-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx-pdf-guide.html#more-6253
[22:04] <c7p> you can see the um-greek.clo file
[22:04] <daker> the "Download now" is ponting this link http://ubuntugeek.tradepub.com/c/pubRD.mpl/?pc=w_ubun01
[22:04] <c7p> that's all about fonts if my memory deserves me well
[22:04] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: if you look at the um-greek.clo file mine says Linux Libertine
[22:05] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: i thought we were using serif :/
[22:06] <c7p> daker: why is that so ?
[22:06] <ubuntujenkins> daker: I cant download it
[22:07] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: I will search on my mails for more info about the fonts
[22:07] <ubuntujenkins> thanks c7p
[22:07] <ubuntujenkins> daker: are its ok its chromium
[22:08] <daker> when you click one the link you are redirect to http://ubuntugeek.tradepub.com/free/w_ubun01/
[22:08] <ubuntujenkins> why are people putting our manual behind spam walls! :/
[22:08]  * ubuntujenkins gets anoyed
[22:09] <dutchie> i suppose we should be pleased in a way
[22:09] <flan> Because, to quote an unnamed source, the Intenret is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas.
[22:09] <flan> Our course of action is clear: build a better Internet.
[22:09] <flan> Or re-engineer society.
[22:10] <flan> Either way.
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> hmm but its not publisisng the team. and people can get it with out giving up so much info
[22:10]  * ubuntujenkins is tempted to ask by using http://www.ubuntugeek.com/contact
[22:10] <daker> when you click "Request now" your are redirect to http://ubuntugeek.tradepub.com/free/w_ubun01/prgm.cgi
[22:10] <flan> Curtly ask they they put a link to our site in the article's body.
[22:10] <flan> Or politely.
[22:10] <flan> I like being a jerk.
[22:10] <flan> that they*
[22:11] <daker> the same thing as the other site, the one found by humphreybc
[22:11] <ubuntujenkins> Iwas just going to ask that they link to our site
[22:11] <ubuntujenkins> you have to give so much information just to get it
[22:12] <flan> daker, any quick design tips to make http://uguu.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/qs-preview-2.png more aesthetically pleasing?
[22:12] <flan> Information *and* time.
[22:13] <flan> I'd give up before subscribing to some site I'll never visit again.
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> Hello,
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> It is great that you are promoting the manual, would you be able to put a link to our site so that people can find out more about our team? Our site is www.ubuntu-manual.org.
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> Thanks
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> Luke
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> is what i am going to send
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> any thoughts?
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> I would like to write stop using a spam wall! but i will not
[22:14] <flan> I'd mention that it should be a prominent link.
[22:14] <flan> The way they present it, it looks like they're saying they wrote it.
[22:14] <flan> Which is what I accused that other site of doing.
[22:14] <flan> In the message I wrote to them.
[22:15] <flan> Because I'm a jerk.
[22:15] <flan> (I made the accusation politely)
[22:15] <flan> (But the subtext was clear)
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> ok now reads
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> It is great that you are promoting the manual, would you be able to put a predominate link to our site so that people can find out more about our team? That way they can get involved in helping us to write it
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> doh predominate!
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> done sent
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> will i get a response?
[22:19] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: I didn't find any mail from godbyk, but I find our talk on channel http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/12/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t19:18
[22:20] <daker> flan, i think bredcrumbs should be great for the navigation
[22:20] <flan> What do you mean?
[22:22] <daker> something like this http://blog.jaysalvat.com/_library/2009/10/breadcrumbs/breadcrumb0.png
[22:22] <ubuntujenkins> all this talk of bread crumbs makes me hungry
[22:23] <daker> \o/
[22:23] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: hmm the *.clo file has some comments in it. We will have to ask godbyk what his thinking was on that
[22:23]  * c7p omg I miss godbyk :D
[22:24] <daker> give me more screenshots
[22:25] <ubuntujenkins> of food?
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: is there anything else we can do?
[22:29] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: nope :D we are waiting for godbyk
[22:29] <flan> I already have that, though.
[22:30] <c7p> topo fixed almost all the bugs if not all but still we need godbyk to approve the release of pdf
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: cool If we all ping him at once :P
[22:30] <flan> The small text above the title links back to the parent.
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> for a moment I thought flan had thought of food
[22:30] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: hehe
[22:30] <c7p> well I'm having :p brb
[22:31] <flan> I can go one better than giving you screenshots, daker. I can give you live access, if you're okay with resisting the urge to start rebuilding the whole thing.
[22:31] <flan> (I'm making too many changes each night for a redesign to be practical at this time)
[22:33]  * ubuntujenkins has finaly worked out why facebook in pigin was not working
[22:40] <daker> flan, i making some mockups for you
[22:41] <flan> Don't go into too much detail. I've still got about half of the system to go.
[22:41] <flan> (There are about eight more pages left to craft)
[22:42] <flan> (I was mostly looking for tips on colours and fonts on that one)
[22:42] <flan> I mean, I appreciate all the work you're willing to invest, but I don't want any of it to go to waste.
[22:43] <flan> I'll be asking for a full review when it's functionally complete, in early July.
[22:44] <flan> When you can freely change anything you'd like, without needing to worry about whether or not a feature is missing.
[22:44] <flan> (I'm keeping the code as separate from the interface as possible)
[22:46] <flan> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/server/annotate/head:/quickshot/quickshot/templates/root_project.mako ius the code behind that image.
[22:48] <c7p> ubuntujenkins: Is there anything else I can do today ?
[22:49] <ubuntujenkins> c7p: not as far as I know, wish i could do more
[22:49] <c7p> so do I :/
[22:50] <daker> flan, kk
[22:50] <flan> (The CSS file is currently a mess. I promise to organize and document everything before I turn it over to you)
[22:51] <c7p> night all :)
[22:52] <flan> G'night, c7p.
[22:52] <ubuntujenkins> night c7p