[00:34] <SamuelMarks> tomreyn: hmmmmmm
[00:35] <SamuelMarks> nautilus : Depends: nautilus-data (= 1:46~beta-0ubuntu3) but 1:46.0-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[00:43] <Bashing-om> SamuelMarks: Due to backdoor in upstream xz/liblzma - downgrading the dependencies.
[01:48] <SamuelMarks> Bashing-om - ahhh
[01:51] <Bashing-om> SamuelMarks: See: What’s happening in Noble repositories? - https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/whats-happening-in-noble-repositories/43729 for greater info.
[01:59] <SamuelMarks> ahhh
[06:31] <alkisg> Hi all; should I be able to use secureboot=on with ubuntu 24.04?
[06:31] <alkisg> Also, what replaced http://packages.ubuntu.com/shim-signed in 24.04?
[09:05] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: currently noble is in a bit of flaky stage, due the xz you surely heared about
[09:06] <lotuspsychje> the installers are also being reworked, theres a lot going on
[09:07] <alkisg> lotuspsychje: I've had it installed since December, I'm not installing it now. But I can't invoke the secure boot configuration dialog for some reason
[09:08] <alkisg> I think that something has changed regarding shim, but I  don't know what
[09:09] <lotuspsychje> i havent played much with the setups myself, maybe guiverc might know something^
[09:11] <RikMills> alkisg: some amd64 binaries have been removed from the archive due to the xz issue and will be rebuild in time
[09:11] <RikMills> ahim-signed may have been one of those
[09:12] <RikMills> *shim
[09:13] <RikMills> if not that, then *shrug*
[09:13] <lotuspsychje> :p
[09:14] <alkisg> Thank you RikMills, that might explain it...
[09:15] <lotuspsychje> lets just wait until the storm is over
[09:15] <lotuspsychje> and apt drags in updates in
[09:16] <RikMills> yeah, at the moment even ISOs fail to build on basic deps
[09:17] <lotuspsychje> better be safe then sorry
[09:34] <guiverc> I've had secure boot on at times & off at others (virtualbox is easier with it off) but haven't probably had secure-boot enabled since before 28-March (I can't recall setting but suspect it's off currently)
[09:39] <lotuspsychje> ok tnx guiverc
[11:10] <ogra_> alkisg, you can also not "enable" secureboot after installation (not sure what that parameter above refers to) it need to happen at install time since the setup is completely different
[13:59] <alkisg> ogra_: in the past, by just removing and reinstalling shim and grub-efi, it worked fine; is there an additional step now? How would one enable it afterwards?
[13:59] <alkisg> E.g. suppose you replaced a motherboard, you wouldn't want to reinstall..
[14:01] <ogra_> alkisg, if you use TPM based sceboot+full disk encryption your kernel comes as a snap package ... if you do not have that setup from the installer you can not switch
[14:02] <alkisg> Sure a new board wouldn't have the necessary TPM keys; I'm talking without involving encryption...
[14:07] <ogra_> well, there the old way should still work i figure ... i dont think that was touched ... sorry, i thought you mean TPM based
[14:18] <alkisg> 👍 👍 👍
[16:00] <ChmEarl> counted 298 t64 libs in Noble main, it won't be long till full migration from proposed, perhaps 24 more hours
[18:53] <RikMills> update on xz https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/xz-liblzma-security-update-post-2/43801
[22:31] <cgmb> "pbuilder-dist noble amd64 create" is failing for me with the message "E: Couldn't find these debs: apt" from debootstrap
[22:32] <cgmb> Is that something I'm doing wrong, or is apt legitimately missing from the noble repos right now?
[22:32] <cgmb> full log: https://gist.github.com/cgmb/e19faab9d8e9348998884327801cc656
[23:31] <quidnunc> cgmb: I don't know but apparently there is chaos due to the xz vulnerability and mass package rebuilding


[05:57] <tjaalton> RAOF: hi, mesa needs some mir love, if you have time ;)
[06:50] <RAOF> tjaalton: I'll make some time. A nice break from Go.
[06:56] <tjaalton> hehe
[06:56] <tjaalton> thanks
[17:13] <soee_> mamarley: 390.12 beta :)(
[18:09] <mamarley> ricotz: Shall I work on 390.12 or are you already doing that?
[18:11] <ricotz> mamarley, I started to look at it, but if you want to do it?
[18:11] <mamarley> Sure, I can take a stab at it.
[18:15] <mamarley> I'm hoping they fixed the DRM atomic modesetting stuff for 4.15 compatibility.  I tried to patch 387 for those changes and it was well beyond my ability.
[18:16] <mamarley> (A minimal patch allows it to compile, but atomic modesetting doesn't work because the associated conftest fails.)
[18:18] <ricotz> mamarley, seems to build fine with 4.15rc6
[18:19] <ricotz> if I am back in a few it didnt break too badly ;)
[18:20] <mamarley> ricotz: Does "[drm] Supports vblank timestamp caching Rev 2 (21.10.2013)." or something of the sort appear in dmesg?
[18:23] <mamarley> (Oh wait, on second thought, one would need to set "options nvidia_387_drm modeset=1" in /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf for that to work anyway.
[18:23] <ricotz> I am persistently running x11 ;)
[18:24] <mamarley> ricotz: Anyway, it looks like you already have most of the work for this done, so I guess there isn't any point in me going any farther?
[18:24] <mamarley> (Or I can do -settings?)
[18:25] <ricotz> I didnt really look at it, just plain taking the 387 package and throwing it into pbuidler ;)
[18:25] <ricotz> bionic only
[18:26] <ricotz> nice that the license stuff is fixed
[18:26] <mamarley> Definitely.
[18:27] <mamarley> ricotz: So what do you want me to do?
[18:33] <ricotz> mamarley, would great if you could look at it properly
[18:33] <mamarley> OK, I will do that.
[18:34] <ricotz> like symlinking libnvidia-egl-wayland.so.1.0.1 seems to be obsolete
[18:34] <ricotz> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root       30 Jan  4 19:16 libnvidia-egl-wayland.so.1 -> libnvidia-egl-wayland.so.1.0.2
[18:34] <ricotz> -rw-r--r--   1 root root    31976 Dez 20 16:44 libnvidia-egl-wayland.so.1.0.2
[18:35] <ricotz> mamarley, thanks
[18:35] <mamarley> No problem.
[19:21] <mamarley> So while they did fix the compilation with 4.15, atomic modesetting still doesn't work. :(
[20:25] <mamarley> ricotz: soee: nvidia-390 and nvidia-settings are uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~mamarley/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages, but the build queue is well and truly jammed, so it is going to be a bit before they actually compile.
[20:26] <soee> :-)
[20:27] <mamarley> soee: Not sure if you saw above, but they these compile fine against 4.14.11 and 4.15-rc6, though atomic KMS doesn't work on 4.15-rc6.  I already tried to fix that with 387, but it is well beyond my ability.
[20:28] <mamarley> (KMS isn't the default though, so unless you go screwing around with /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf, you won't see anything different.)
[20:33] <soee> mamarley: and > 4.14.8 ?
[20:34] <mamarley> soee: I only tested it with the two versions I named.
[20:34] <soee> previosu driver version failed to work with kernel 4.14.9 and higher
[20:34] <soee> ah sorry, 4.14.11
[20:34] <soee> :D
[20:47] <ricotz> mamarley, ok, yeah, those are precautions due to meltdown/spectre until the servers are patches
[20:48] <mamarley> Ah yes, that makes sense.  Wouldn't want anyone screwing around with other builds.
[20:49] <ricotz> exactly
[20:50] <ricotz> it has been some time since I build a kernel locally, but today it seemed necessary ;)
[20:50] <ricotz> make sure to update firefox
[20:51] <mamarley> I have been self-building kernels for one of my boxes ever since 4.14.3 because of a bugged e1000e patch that causes the interface on that box to not come up.
[20:52] <ricotz> oh
[20:53] <mamarley> There is another patch to fix it, but that patch hasn't been included yet. :(
[20:53] <ricotz> so this is even a mainline issue?
[20:54] <mamarley> Yes, it affects at least the current 4.14 and 4.15-rc builds.
[20:55] <ricotz> I see
[20:57] <mamarley> 2018 was supposed to be better than 2017, but the first thing that happens is that we suddenly find out that almost ever computer is inherently insecure. :(
[20:58] <mamarley> s/ever/every
[20:59] <ricotz> especially if the story breaks 5 days early
[21:00] <soee> :) but hey, only better things can happen now
[21:02] <mamarley> soee: Like a nuclear war?
[21:03] <soee> noone wins such war, so no chance for it :)


[00:07] <lynorian> phew at least zip works
[00:11] <wxl> what's weird is that i was reading the other day they basically borrowed all the functional code
[00:12] <wxl> from engranpa
[00:12] <wxl> and that is a fork of file-roller which we had in LXDE Lubuntu
[00:12] <wxl> i might add that lxqt-archiver was originally developed by PCMan
 wxl: I see that cjwatson unstuck the builds again.
 i think that's going to be a problem for the foreseeable future if it keeps getting stuck
 (I needed a nap)
[01:28] <manup> https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query=ted%20gunderson&kind=video
[02:24] <guiverc> just fyi wxl, I saw mention of wifi (@Leokolb regularly tests with it, thanks Leo! as I only do when on laptops which is occasional)..   i've had live (hirsute) daily stream news on wifi, switching between 2.4ghz & 5ghz without issue
 Thks for confirm Chris
[02:54] <guiverc> I've had an issue with lxqt-archiver created a tar.gz from selected text file; marked as 1917960 or confirmation of lynorian
[06:23] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] jobgenerator just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/jobgenerator/897/
[21:28] <kc2bez[m]> Sorry for the delay. https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/development-for-the-week-of-march-5-march-11-2021/2275


[22:45] <tomreyn> please consider to /msg Sigyn unkline mjasnik
[22:45] <tomreyn> within 10 minutes
[22:45] <tomreyn> the user was banned in #ubuntu some minutes ago due to failing to pastebin
[22:45] <tomreyn> s/banned/klined/
[22:46] <ikonia> done
[22:46] <ikonia> saw the accidental spam
[22:47] <tomreyn> ty


[00:00] <unomi> where can I get to the ubiquity install script?
[00:17] <hggdh> absolutely -1 to any user-data-cleaning programme... the data is the user's property, we cannot delete it
[00:17] <ddecator> hggdh: +1
[00:18] <ddecator> to your statement, now the idea
[00:18] <ddecator> not*
[00:18] <hggdh> :-)
[00:18] <hggdh> ddecator: is it (-1 +1), or -(1 +1)?
[00:19] <ddecator> hggdh: uh...(-1 +1)
[00:19] <ddecator> i think :p
[00:19] <hggdh> ddecator: :-)
[00:20] <hggdh> but if one writes a programme that will take care on what it does to remove user data, I have no issue. My issue is with 'apt-get purge xyz' deleting user data
[01:17] <penguin42> hggdh: Where was the user data?
[01:28] <penguin42> hmm bed
[09:28] <vish> hmm, a weird doubt , doesnt the ubuntu server use the same packages as the ubuntu-desktop?
[09:28] <micahg> vish: same repo
[09:29] <vish> micahg: can the two set different preferences? within a package?
[09:29] <micahg> vish: what do you mean?
[09:30] <Kangarooo> maybe ubuntu dekstop installing also installs another package witch contains specific configuration. server maybe has all default settings..
[09:30] <vish> micahg: like for ex: if we take package X has a preference : desktop team wants a preference while the server team does not what to use that , is there a way for setting different preferences?
[09:31] <vish> yeah , like default settings..
[09:31] <micahg> vish: idk, possibly, is there a particular bug?
[09:31] <vish> micahg: sudo server team says desktop can show password , while it does not want to do that
[09:32] <vish> sudo :*
[09:32] <vish> show password in the sense , show the ******
[09:32] <micahg> vish: k, what you descrive as the server preference is standard behaviour
[09:33] <vish> yeah , while the desktop can set the preference to show the password?
[09:34] <micahg> vish: no, gksu or kdesu can do that
[09:34] <vish> micahg: actually sudo can also do that , we just havent turned it on. :s
[09:35]  * micahg doesn't see why we'd change the standard behaviour
[09:36] <vish> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sudoers#Enabling%20Visual%20Feedback%20when%20Typing%20Passwords
[09:36] <micahg> vish: k, but globally, I don't see the point, it's a cli app
[09:37] <vish> micahg: in a desktop it is the only app which does not show the pwd stars while every other location the stars are there
[09:37] <micahg> vish: yes, but it's not a desktop app, but a cli app
[09:38] <vish> why does that have to matter , it is in a desktop behaving differently , cli or not seems irrelevant
[09:39] <micahg> vish: but it's not, just because all the gui dialog boxes behave a certain way doesn't mean all the cli apps need to do the same thing
[09:39] <vish> micahg: why not? why do they have to act differently?
[09:40]  * vish doesnt understand
[09:40] <micahg> vish: it's not the same interface
[09:40]  * micahg is guessing, not quoting doctrine
[09:40] <vish> if not same interface , why the problem
[09:41] <micahg> vish: you said there was a problem, not me :P
[09:41] <vish> i meant why the problem of *not* showing ;)
[09:41] <vish> micahg: the tradition to not show pwd stars was inherited from servers for security reasons
[09:41] <micahg> vish: because you're changing something fundamental about the cli
[09:42] <vish> huh? so why is terminal included ?
[09:42] <vish> if it is not going to be part of the desktop.
[09:42] <micahg> vish: for people who like a cli :)
[09:43] <vish> micahg: yeah , those people can turn off the option ;)
[09:43]  * micahg doesn't think things should be fundamentally different
[09:43] <micahg> vish: if anything, I'd say there should be another package in the sudo source that can enable the parameter
[09:44] <micahg> and *not* install it by default
[09:44] <vish> nah , pwd stars by default ;)
[09:44] <vish> micahg: "fundamentals" is just another way of saying "I'm used to this so why change" ;)
[09:45] <micahg> vish: no, it's a matter of making an app consistent across platforms and distros
[09:45] <vish> micahg: hmm?  we are concerned about consistency with other distros? but not *within* the distro ;)
[09:46] <micahg> vish: that *is* being consistent w/in the distro to keep it off
[09:46] <vish> micahg: how? is it consistent within a desktop?
[09:46] <micahg> vish: who's floating around the idea anyways
[09:48] <vish> ;p
[10:56] <Kangarooo> micahg: i need knowlegde about triaging bugs.. im in bugsquad joined can i get mentorship one day?
[11:06] <micahg> Kangarooo: I'm about to go to sleep, in about 8 hours I can answer some questions
[11:06] <Kangarooo> ok micahg
[11:06] <micahg> Kangarooo: there might be other people around to help
[11:07] <Kangarooo> meanwhile ill request mentorship as its written in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
[12:12] <penguin42> Does anyone know what /var/run/gdm/auth-for-* is ?
[12:12] <penguin42> ah, Xauthority files moved to there?
[12:47] <penguin42> bug 511493 feels like it should be split into two ?
[12:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 511493 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Add Acrobat reader and flash restrictions (affects: 1) (heat: 23)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511493
[18:04] <hggdh> penguin42: ideally they should have been split, yes. But Kees already accepted the bug as is, so no big deal
[18:05] <penguin42> fair enough
[18:32] <DrKenobi> Hi! I found something but I'm not sure if it's a bug or not. When you do something (install, remove) with Gnome-terminal you will see this question: "Do you want to continue [Y/n]?". If you press enter you confirm the action, it's like typing "Y". Is this OK?
[18:33] <Kangarooo> DrKenobi: yes couse maybe you make up or mind when ull see how much programms will be installed
[18:33] <penguin42> DrKenobi: I suspect it depends the app that is doing it
[18:33] <micahg> DrKenobi: if you do it with aptitude you always see it, if with apt-get only if there's more than one app to install
[18:33] <penguin42> DrKenobi: Generally if the Y has been highlighted (by capitalising) that means the guy who wrote it wanted it as the default
[18:34] <DrKenobi> penguin42: I also thought that, but I was not sure
[18:34] <Kangarooo> penguin42: capital letter option means enter will execute that i think
[18:35] <penguin42> DrKenobi: It's a convention rather than a rule, so most things that give you a choice will make one of them the default; typically either the one that is less dangerous or maybe the same as the old setting
[18:37] <DrKenobi> OK, thank you penguin42
[18:37] <DrKenobi> Kangarooo micahg
[18:39] <Kangarooo> DrKenobi: yes? about mentorship?
[18:40] <DrKenobi> Kangarooo: yes
[18:45] <Kangarooo> im ready whenever mentor is ready. michael will be my mentor? in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors i see hess available from 0:00 utc now is 18:00


[09:22] <Burgundavia> @schedule vancouver
[09:22] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 31 Oct 14:00: LoCo | 01 Nov 04:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 12:00: Technical Board
[09:30] <Mez> @schedule brimingham
[09:30] <Mez> @schedule birmingham
[09:30] <Mez> @schedule LONDON
[09:30] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 31 Oct 22:00: LoCo | 01 Nov 12:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00: Technical Board
[09:43] <GNAM> @shcedule ROME
[09:43] <GNAM> @schedule ROME
[09:43] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 31 Oct 23:00: LoCo | 01 Nov 13:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 21:00: Technical Board
[10:28] <freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
[10:28] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 01 Nov 06:00: LoCo | 01 Nov 20:00: Edubuntu | 08 Nov 04:00: Technical Board
[11:01] <rejden> @schedule vienna
[11:01] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vienna: 31 Oct 23:00: LoCo | 01 Nov 13:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 21:00: Technical Board
[02:13] <DBO> got the bug count to 218
[02:13] <DBO> oops, wrong room, sorry
[03:10] <fernando> Hi all. During Ubuntu Developer Summit reports about what was argued in the projects will be available?
[03:13] <fernando> have a participate page =), thanks
[04:28] <opi> Hello
[04:34] <opi> I hope 22:00 UTC is 17 CET :)
[04:35] <cjwatson> opi: date -u
[04:35] <opi> right
[04:36] <opi> oh..
[04:36] <opi> ho hum :)
[04:36] <opi> then I guess I'm off to get some beer
[04:43] <simira> lloydinho: hi, how are you?
[04:50] <lloydinho> hi simira!
[04:50] <lloydinho> I'm doing well. I've just had a late lunch with Henrik.
[04:52] <simira> lloydinho: that must be a late lunch indeed!
[09:12] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[09:12] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 31 Oct 16:00: LoCo | 01 Nov 06:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 14:00: Technical Board
[10:54] <looksaus> evening
[10:54] <jono> hey
[10:56] <kjcole> Hullo
[10:57] <Gnomonic> Good Evening (with a count dracula accent)
[10:57] <jono> heh
[10:57] <Plug> 'yarr'
[10:58] <licio> good night :)
[10:58] <jono> lets give late folks a few mins to get in :)
[10:58] <elkbuntu> indeed
[10:59] <nixternal> hello
[11:00] <JoeyStanford> Howdy
[11:00] <Burgwork> greets
[11:00] <nixternal> i was packaging docs to fix boogs
[11:00] <Burgwork> boogs, are those worse than bugs?
[11:00] <nixternal> it is Burgworks fault ;)
[11:00] <dthacke1> you want zarro of the bugs
[11:00] <nixternal> well, with Caroline Ford on the doc attack, they are boogs, cuz she found a log of bugs
[11:01] <elkbuntu> while we wait to start.. the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
[11:02] <ajmitch> hi
[11:02] <jono> right should we start?
[11:03] <newz2000> hi
[11:03] <jono> hi newz2000
[11:03] <nixternal> i take it you made it there newz2000 ;)
[11:03] <newz2000> just. :)
[11:03] <jono> everyone got the agenda up?
[11:03] <jono> ok, show of hands, who is here for the loco meeting?
[11:03] <Gnomonic> Aye
[11:03] <kjcole> Aye (or I)
[11:03] <nixternal> o/
[11:04] <elkbuntu> me me me me :)
[11:04] <AdamBagnall> o/
[11:04] <matt_good> yup
[11:04] <jono> :P
[11:04] <jono> cool
[11:04] <nixternal> which finger?
[11:04] <jono> :P
[11:04] <nixternal> not the chicago wave is it?
[11:04] <elkbuntu> a CoC friendly one
[11:04] <looksaus> jono, manners!
[11:04] <jono> right, lots to get through
[11:04] <nixternal> haha
[11:04] <jono> firstly, docs
[11:04] <nixternal> well, isn't it the same as the backwards v?
[11:04] <jono> it was the docs day today, and not a huge amount got done
[11:05] <jono> any thoughts on why?
[11:05] <Plug> I perused the docs, found I really didn't have anything to add
[11:05] <elkbuntu> because it wasnt well enough known
[11:05] <jono> right
[11:05] <looksaus> err, I made quite an addition I think
[11:05] <jono> I suspect there was not enough knowledge of it
[11:05] <jono> which we could with improving
[11:05] <ajmitch> this is the first I heard of it being a docs day
[11:05] <jono> maybe a fridge post will solve this issue
[11:05] <elkbuntu> yep
[11:06] <jono> also, I think everyone has something to contribute,  but many are not sure of what
[11:06] <jono> so I figured we could discuss the main docs
[11:06] <jono> I would say a critical one is the FAQ at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoFAQ
[11:06] <jono> I would love to turn this into the all seeing all dancing FAQ
[11:06] <jono> we also had a good start on the planet howto and the maps howto
[11:06] <elkbuntu> we dont know what you want to know, without that elusive mind-reading skill
[11:07] <jono> heh
[11:07] <Plug> FAQs need the questions to actually be asked
[11:07] <Plug> if there are questions, writing answers is relatively easy! :)
[11:07] <dthacke1> jono: do you have a list of unanswered questions?
[11:07] <JoeyStanford> I have a small bit to add to most of the material but have not found the time yet.  Given my week this week, I may not get to it until Mountain View.
[11:07] <looksaus> if you have unanswered questions, they should go there too
[11:07] <jono> well, imagine the kind of stuff people ask, or stuff that people actually ask, and then update the FAQ
[11:08] <jono> the FAQ is not just about the questions we actually get, but also about questions we may get
[11:08] <elkbuntu> maybe we need a 'questions list', where people can ask things
[11:08] <jono> so, yeah, no urgency, but everyone keep it in the back of your head, if everyone adds a few questions, we get one fat mother of a FAQ :)
[11:08] <LoudMouthMan> Evning all, sorry jono .. i was distracted with the AA page
[11:08] <jono> no worries
[11:09] <Plug> tbh, I actually think its quite comprehensive at the moment
[11:09] <jono> Plug, its getting good, but if anyone thinks something is missing, feel free to add it :)
[11:09] <jono> I also added the Knowledge Base to the main LoCo site
[11:09] <JoeyStanford> fwiw, my own personal view was that I was going to add the items that came up when I started the CoLoCo.
[11:09] <jono> if anyone wants to write some docs and add it to the Knowledge Base, that would be great
[11:10] <jono> JoeyStanford, cool
[11:10] <jono> I think docs are pretty central to the project, and I am looking to add some additional docs when I get time
[11:11] <jono> any other thoughts re. docs?
[11:11] <jono> anything people want to see? or feel are missing?
[11:11] <looksaus> target audience docs
[11:11] <jono> looksaus, what do you mean?
[11:11] <looksaus> branding hints
[11:12] <JoeyStanford> It would be helpful to have the setup information along with tips to help new LoCo's start.  Information about event planning for existing LoCo's.  I'd also like to see a section about sponsorship...e.g. in our case System 76 is a corp sponsor.
[11:12] <jono> branding for?
[11:12] <looksaus> hints on which subgroups to focus on first
[11:12] <jono> JoeyStanford, this is all good stuff
[11:12] <Plug> A big unaddressed issue, to my mind, is "why to do it"
[11:12] <jono> Plug, another great point
[11:12] <Plug> what the group gets out of it, how it relates to other LUGs etc
[11:12] <newz2000> Plug: good question
[11:12] <jono> how about we have a page of things that need documenting?
[11:13] <jono> like a TODO of things that need going in the docs?
[11:13] <JoeyStanford> Plug, very good point. I think the answers to that one question will be the same in many cases but also very different for different areas.
[11:13] <dthacke1> I'd like to know what interaction to have with a huge regional group, like the 2 or 3 US ones
[11:13] <jono> dthacke1, another great point
[11:13] <jono> ok one sec
[11:13] <jono> right I will create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamDocsToDo
[11:13] <Ju> Hi all
[11:14] <jono> right could you folks add your ideas to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamDocsToDo
[11:14] <jono> we can use that as a source for things to document :)
[11:15] <jono> I think docs are part of the key to LoCo world domination :)
[11:15] <elkbuntu> lol, indeed
[11:15] <looksaus> jono, with target audience docs, I tried to say
[11:15] <JoeyStanford> A question that was raised our Edgy release party was Plug's: Why do we all like this LoCo concept.  I added some of our concept to the minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam/EdgyMeetingMinutes
[11:15] <jono> looksaus, right :)
[11:15] <looksaus> which groups to target primarily
[11:15] <looksaus> like :
[11:15] <jono> looksaus, sounds great, and important for the docs too :)
[11:15] <looksaus> technical users
[11:15] <looksaus> AND
[11:15] <kjcole> I know it's bad form to change page names, but perhaps the sort of restructuring of wiki pages into sub-page structure might be worth considering...
[11:15] <looksaus> so called 80% users
[11:16] <jono> JoeyStanford, Plug looksaus dthacke1 - ok are you guys ok to add topics to that page and we can then work on them?
[11:16] <john> I have been getting errors involving roxen3 and mysql.  This comes up with apt-get. I can find absolutely no explanation about this browser, roxen3. is this the place to get  help?
[11:16] <Plug> jono: sure
[11:16] <dthacke1> yes
[11:16] <LoudMouthMan> much as I love reading log files at a later date, should we be adding some syntax like [NOTE]  to things like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamDocsToDo just to make searching this text at a later date easier. or [AGREED]  for some point..
[11:16] <Gnomonic> looksaus: What is a 80% user?
[11:16] <jono> john, nope, head to #ubuntu
[11:16] <jono> awesome
[11:16] <JoeyStanford> Jono, yes sir.  Might take until Sunday but it'll be done.
[11:16] <looksaus> Gnomonic, a user that does very casual things with his comp:
[11:16] <jono> awesome
[11:16] <jono> lets move to the next topic then :)
[11:17] <jono> working with other groups
[11:17] <LoudMouthMan> [topic]
[11:17] <Plug> (side note: the fact that ever change I make gets emailled to ajmitch/danielholbach/nixternal feel s abit offputting ;)
[11:17] <newz2000> Plug: they likely ignore the e-mails
[11:17] <ajmitch> Plug: sorry :)
[11:17] <jono> Plug, :P
[11:17] <Plug> oh, I don't doubt that
[11:17] <jono> at LinuxWorld there was some discussion with ubuntu-uk with who LoudMouthMan is one of the core members, about how we can better work with LUGs and other user groups
[11:17] <jono> naturally we don't want LoCo teams to overthrow other groups, and we need to work with other groups effectively
[11:18] <Plug> A primary answer is 'Canonical $stuff distribution' (shipit, etc)
[11:18] <Plug> it gives the LUGs an instant reason to exist
[11:18] <jono> Plug, good point
[11:18] <looksaus> why would you want to do that?
[11:18] <Plug> erm, s/LUG/LoCo/
[11:18] <jono> well, we determined that LUGs are general support groups, and LoCo teams are really teams to help advocate and promote Ubuntu
[11:18] <dthacke1> We plan on doing more outreach than the current LUG, which only does monthly meetings
[11:19] <LoudMouthMan> Yes, president Popey is concerned that we dont splinter or fraction the LUG users, ive added it to the UKteam approval as Ensuring Ubuntu compliments and Enhances a Linux User group
[11:19] <Plug> but it also affirms a stereotype 'ubuntu is only popular cos canonical send it to people for free' :)
[11:19] <looksaus> jono, I see this _very_ differently
[11:19] <jono> looksaus, how so?
[11:19] <looksaus> as lugs cater to a technical group
[11:19] <looksaus> geeks and nerds
[11:19] <newz2000> ah
[11:19] <looksaus> and there is a group that is absolutely not like this
[11:19] <Plug> our (national) LoCo covers the area of many LUGs
[11:19] <jono> looksaus, so your team caters for non-geeks?
[11:19] <LoudMouthMan> but a lug is not exlcusively one specific catering subset..
[11:20] <JoeyStanford> I've documented our answer to this question on the CoLoCo page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam
[11:20] <looksaus> yes
[11:20] <looksaus> lugs are _not_ end user support
[11:20] <Plug> looksaus: some are
[11:20] <looksaus> if you want to break outside the geek public
[11:20] <jono> looksaus, ok thats cool, there is nothing wrong with being different, we just need to be sure we don't tread on toes
[11:20] <looksaus> you _don't_ go to a lug
[11:20] <elkbuntu> the function of LUGs is as varied as the function of LoCos
[11:20] <jono> elkbuntu, exactly
[11:20] <jono> looksaus, LUGs are very varied, many do support many don't
[11:20] <jono> when I toured the UK LUGs earlier this year they were hugely different
[11:21] <LoudMouthMan> ooh neat .. we used Enhance as well. thats great.. Enhance is a feature!
[11:21] <looksaus> my point is that you need to break loose
[11:21] <looksaus> from the technical people who gather in a lug
[11:21] <jono> now, LoudMouthMan made some great notes about working with other groups from the ubuntu-uk meeting
[11:21] <yama> there are fears in some LUGs that Ubuntu is trying to take over. This should be avoided
[11:21] <kjcole> Our LoCo "leans towards" Ubuntu, but try to throw in a good word for other distros every once in a while.  Our focus is on reaching the non-geeky, particularly in K-12 schools, libraries, and small community groups.
[11:21] <jono> I would love to see some of those notes in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoWorkingWithOtherGroups
[11:21] <jono> LoudMouthMan, are you ok to merge some of that in, maybe with the help of popey ?
[11:21] <elkbuntu> yama, crap, they're on to us...!
[11:21] <nixternal> Plug: just on your side note, the reason we get those emails, and i look at everyone, is to assist with the admin of the wiki, so if someone defaces a page, i can see it right away, or others, and fix it
[11:21] <Plug> I liken the LoCo here to a virtual collection of the Ubuntu promoting focused users from all the national LUG
[11:21] <Plug> s
[11:21] <JoeyStanford> These are all good comments.  We've been thru this as part of the justification to setup the CoLoCo....so I refer everyone back to our team page.
[11:22] <jono> yama, yeah, we need to be careful of that
[11:22] <Plug> each LUG has a bunch of people who dont care about Ubuntu, and a bunch that are only ever going to be users
[11:22] <Plug> (which is fine)
[11:22] <jono> JoeyStanford, cool, so you have some good thoughts on this subject?
[11:22] <JoeyStanford> I have *LOTS* of thoughts.
[11:22] <jono> JoeyStanford, good good :)
[11:22] <LoudMouthMan> a better thought might be this : the other distros will mobilise their own communities.. this concerns LUGS more. however LUGS ar the assimilationof all distros into one common interest. hence Ubuntu LOCO teams can set the prescendence for working with them.
[11:22] <jono> JoeyStanford, if you can contribute to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoWorkingWithOtherGroups as well, that would be great
[11:22] <JoeyStanford> This was the primary topic ...the primary deciding aspect of setting up Colorado.  We explored it in depdth.
[11:23] <JoeyStanford> in depth even.
[11:23] <Plug> I generalise that 'LUGs are meatspace'
[11:23] <LoudMouthMan> and I spotted that comment Jono.. i was hopping other team members would edit for me.. namely (president)Pope
[11:23] <jono> it seems most loco teams are interested in advocacy and promotion too - less about support and less about physical meetings
[11:23] <Plug> our LoCo can't do that, and probably shouldn't.
[11:23] <looksaus> Plug, meatspace?
[11:23] <jono> LoudMouthMan, ok, lets persuade him :)
[11:23] <Plug> looksaus: "the real world"
[11:23] <Plug> where people are made of meat, not 1s and 0s :P
[11:23] <looksaus> heh
[11:23] <jono> :)
[11:23] <LoudMouthMan> well i was going to ask him directly thursday if it had stayed empty .. hes got the best fix on a LUGmaster concern here
[11:24] <jono> LoudMouthMan, I think he can offer some sane and realistic guidence for that page :)
[11:24] <jono> I think that the issue of group relations is something we *all* need to take care with - we don't want to make LUGs feel like we are overtaking them
[11:24] <looksaus> if you want end users with little skills to help each other, you will need one distro for them to center around
[11:25] <jono> it seems most LoCo teams though have a definitive and different direction to a LUG
[11:25] <Plug> "LUGs are dying"
[11:25] <elkbuntu> jono, Plug is probably equally qualified for it, given his experience
[11:25] <LoudMouthMan> jono  : i agree
[11:25] <jono> elkbuntu, awesome
[11:25] <Plug> you need far less handholding to install Linux these days
[11:25] <jono> Plug, would you be happy to add content to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoWorkingWithOtherGroups
[11:25] <Plug> sure, looking now
[11:25] <jono> Plug, not much to look at :P
[11:25] <LoudMouthMan> Plug your not wrong .. they are dying but I dont feel thats a justification
[11:26] <jono> awesome, just some things for us to think about
[11:26] <elkbuntu> no reason why we cannot help change that
[11:26] <looksaus> if you want to break outside a technical public
[11:26] <LoudMouthMan> I know Dobbo and I spoke about it 3yrs ago thats why we started BCF and FSB meetings.
[11:26] <looksaus> you want to stay away from most lugs...
[11:26] <Plug> I was just saying that you need to expect some animosity from the 'old school' :)
[11:26] <looksaus> you want to attract a different kind of people
[11:26] <JoeyStanford> In Colorado, those LUG statements do not apply as greatly. LUGs are a backbone, albeit not as strong as they once were.
[11:26] <jono> looksaus, we don't want to just break outside a technical public, but whatever your views, we are computer fans and so are they, so there are issues there
[11:27] <nixternal> see, what I have been doing with the local LUGs, is just providing information/insite into the Ubuntu community..nothing more and nothing less. when i goto a LUG meeting, it is all about Linux, unless an Ubuntu topic comes up..
[11:27] <LoudMouthMan> theres a phrase I see on IRC quite a lot when talking about bringing new of fresh people into Ubuntu.
[11:27] <looksaus> ah, k, sorry to have misunderstood
[11:27] <jono> looksaus, we want to target non users, I am just saying we don't want to inflame negative relations with other groups :)
[11:27] <jono> looksaus, :)
[11:27] <JoeyStanford> Nixternal: Same here.
[11:27] <LoudMouthMan> people say " I dont care " when refering to those below a set technical standard or understanding
[11:27] <nixternal> i provide them with CDs when they ask..a LUG is for Linux in general, and some tend to get annoyed when you bring reteric into their community
[11:27] <jono> I recommend we get that page filled out, and then we can schedule a meeting about this wide and interesting subject
[11:27] <LoudMouthMan> I think it fits the Coc to start showing that Care is a feature.
[11:28] <jono> everyone ok to move on?
[11:28] <elkbuntu> yep
[11:28] <jono> or any other comments?
[11:28] <nixternal> although Plug probably would have the best LUG insite, seeing as he is from the home of the larget LUG i believe
[11:28] <looksaus> well, I can say that lugs out here are absolutely not negative towards us
[11:28] <Plug> We're not that large! :P
[11:28] <LoudMouthMan> possibly we approach the other Distro guys ... Jon Fautley, Ted Heager ( others ? ) and discuss LUG energising.
[11:28] <looksaus> au contraire
[11:28] <LoudMouthMan> great so .. Plug can you start the content for us please?
[11:28] <JoeyStanford> The primary separation between LUGs and LoCo's is Ubuntu in my mind.  LUGs do Linux and related.  LoCo's do Ubuntu.  We tend to have more distro specific information, translated, and with that comes a greater ability to perform outreach, training, and even support.
[11:29] <nixternal> Plug: there is a guy I know that is moving there in a couple of months, and one of his reasons was the LUG ;)
[11:29] <Plug> it seems that any group with one or two driving people with passion, will succeed
[11:29] <jono> evidently there are lots of thoughts here, and scope for future discussion
[11:29] <Plug> The trick is finding those people
[11:29] <nixternal> that there is jono
[11:29] <jono> I think what is important is that we have some solid guidance on that page for LoCos who are unsure of how to move forward
[11:29] <LoudMouthMan> if only there was a pdcast that could talk about LUG energising ?
[11:29] <jono> nixternal, awww shucks :)
[11:30] <LoudMouthMan> nevermind... next !
[11:30] <jono> LoudMouthMan, shut your face :P
[11:30] <elkbuntu> lol
[11:30] <jono> so, we ready to rock onto the next topic?
[11:30] <looksaus> yup...
[11:30] <newz2000> [TOPIC]
[11:30] <dthacke1> next!
[11:30] <elkbuntu> i think so
[11:30] <LoudMouthMan> thanks newz
[11:30] <jono> right, education
[11:30] <elkbuntu> get a room you two
[11:31] <newz2000> [TOPIC]
[11:31] <LoudMouthMan> ooh good my other favourite topic.
[11:31] <nixternal> wooohoooo DA BEARS!!!
[11:31] <jono> many of you will have seen Richard Weiderman's post to loco-contacts about education
[11:31] <jono> a bit of background
[11:31] <LoudMouthMan> um no .. but lets assume i did .. man I must join more mail lists
[11:31] <jono> Richard works for Canonical as Education Manager and he is keen to reach out to loco teams to help our teams get some success with education
[11:32] <jono> the idea is that those teams who are interested in education would be great having an education lead
[11:32] <jono> that is, a person who is happy to coordinate the education efforts of the team
[11:32] <jono> this gives richard a point of contact for helping the team
[11:32] <LoudMouthMan> ahh okay .. so my notes to post about sending these spare Edubuntu CDs to local Mps and Nursery Franchise owners would be useful ? I had a cover letter and all set out.
[11:32] <Plug> I reposted your missive to our list and had two people say "I'd like to help, what do I do", and really didn't have much more I could tell them other than "read the wiki page & sign up".
[11:32] <jono> our Colorado friends kicked it off
[11:32] <jono> sure
[11:32] <nixternal> yes, and I have been working on local educational contacts, and it is nice as there is an Educucational/School admin in the Chicago group, so he is making it easier for me...it seems there may be some great interest in Open Source in the school systems around here
[11:32] <jono> those who want to figure out some edu contacts, add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamEducation
[11:33] <jono> nixternal, awesome! :)
[11:33] <dthacke1> NebraskaTeam is starting with local schools.  Those will be our first presentations, when we get contacts made.
[11:33] <jono> this is great
[11:34] <jono> one thing I would like to work on in the future is for each team to have certain contacts (in addition to the normal main contact), and education contact is a great idea
[11:34] <jono> it will make it easier for interested parties to talk to each other
[11:34] <jono> also, Richard has his foot in the Edubuntu camp, so we have some great opportunities there too
[11:34] <LoudMouthMan> issues will arise as to how Education is handled as a govt department for each loco team so it will be useful to spot where common ground exists in creating awareness.
[11:34] <jono> so if you could all talk to your groups to figure out an edu contact, that would be great
[11:35] <kjcole> The DC LoCo has Edubuntu labs in four local high schools, and five affordable housing project labs (which are often used by the younger kids).
[11:35] <jono> dthacke1, heh
[11:35] <jono> kjcole, wow, send me a fridge article about that with photos and I will get it posted :)
[11:35] <nixternal> DC LoCo guys, I might be out in your area soon visiting my daughter, if I find time, I would like to maybe get together and see how you all are rocking it out there
[11:36] <dthacke1> kjcole, are you done with that HOWTO yet ;)
[11:36] <jono> heh
[11:36] <nixternal> lol
[11:36] <JoeyStanford> In CoLoCo's case, I gave the Edu person a title (Team Lead) and requested two, a primary and a backup, because we all know people get busy. :-)
[11:36] <newz2000> do you mean the "howto: world domination"?
[11:37] <jono> this is an important point
[11:37] <jono> if anyone has any success stories, do let me know so we can promote them on the fridge
[11:37] <kjcole> jono Will try to send you something.   "Being the LoCo Team Lead for Education is a great addition to your wiki page to help you become a full Ubuntu Member"
[11:37] <jono> kjcole, cool
[11:37] <jono> JoeyStanford, :)
[11:37] <jono> so yeah, if everyone could look at arranging an edu contact that would be cool
[11:38] <LoudMouthMan> jono .. what do we do to promot Fridge stories to local media , for instance in the uk informing linux user & dev chappies!
[11:38] <looksaus> jono, what exactly is expected from an edu contact?
[11:38] <jono> again, it would be cool to dedicate a loco meeting to education sometime, so we can have a good full discussion
[11:38] <nixternal> jono: you don't want peoples names and numbers up there im guessing?
[11:38] <Gnomonic> Sorry, gotta leave, will read the logs tomorrow. Good night (or whatever applies to your timezone)
[11:38] <nixternal> at least those contacts might not want their info up there
[11:38] <jono> LoudMouthMan, what do you mean?
[11:38] <looksaus> actively working towards the education sector?
[11:38] <jono> looksaus, the aim is to work with the sector to help ubuntu get used
[11:38] <nixternal> unless of course it is already public
[11:38] <jono> and often advocacy with schools and colleges
[11:38] <looksaus> ok, maybe it would be useful to give some examples there
[11:39] <looksaus> testimonials
[11:39] <JoeyStanford> LoudMouthMan, Excellent Question.
[11:39] <LoudMouthMan> well im off topic a little here .. but id like to ensure that a regular press cycle occurs to maintain press and media awareness of Ubuntu and Locoteam activities.
[11:39] <jono> nixternal, sure, we don't want to show private details, but stats are good where possible
[11:39] <looksaus> a richer "job description" if you want
[11:39] <jono> looksaus, good idea, I think some case studies would be useful there
[11:39] <LoudMouthMan> so if we use the fridge to post excellent news then we should drop a copy to the media some how
[11:39] <jono> LoudMouthMan, exactly
[11:39] <jono> LoudMouthMan, this is part of my aim to get regular stories
[11:39] <JoeyStanford> Jono, we need LMM's topic as a todo.  How to release press releases to local media.
[11:39] <jono> maintaining a cycle needs people though
[11:40] <jono> JoeyStanford, yes, could you add it?
[11:40] <JoeyStanford> Free advertising you know :-)
[11:40] <jono> it may be good to have an agenda item in the future about publicising your events too
[11:40] <JoeyStanford> rgr
[11:40] <jono> rgr?
[11:40] <LoudMouthMan> sure .. but I was thinking about it . i'll keep on top of asking people for news and stories and puting them to the fridge .. well for UKteam at least
[11:40] <nixternal> rgr == roger == 10-4
[11:40] <glennji> "Roger"?
[11:40] <nixternal> ;)
[11:40] <jono> LoudMouthMan, cool
[11:41] <jono> maybe each loco could have a press contact?
[11:41] <jono> someone to flow out press info and act as a contact for journalists?
[11:41] <jono> nixternal, ahh!
[11:41] <elkbuntu> i think thats sort of the general contact's job
[11:41] <elkbuntu> other teams may disagree
[11:41] <looksaus> elkbuntu, agree
[11:41] <jono> elkbuntu, possibly, but some lead contacts may not want to be press contact
[11:42] <LoudMouthMan> well let them have the choice .. some roles fill naturually .
[11:42] <jono> this sounds like a mailing list discussion to get ideas
[11:42] <jono> sure
[11:42] <dthacke1> I'd do it as gc, until the job got too big, the split a press contact
[11:42] <jono> not everyone will want these roles
[11:42] <elkbuntu> fair enough
[11:42] <jono> ok
[11:42] <jono> move on?
[11:43] <looksaus> maybe it's not as much about the roles, but about defining what someone with that responsibility is to do
[11:43] <JoeyStanford> (page updated)
[11:43] <LoudMouthMan> im happy to talk ... ( yeah yeah ) but id look to some one with media experience ( jono , know anyone ? ) to motivate.. but anyway
[11:43] <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC]
[11:43] <jono> JoeyStanford, thanks :)
[11:43] <newz2000> :D
[11:43] <jono> looksaus, and its looking at what people are good at
[11:43] <jono> LoudMouthMan, indeed
[11:43] <jono> ok further ideas
[11:44] <jono> I think we need to think of events and campaigns for the LoCo community as a whole
[11:44] <jono> elkbuntu had the idea of a recruitment drive
[11:44] <jono> which I think is a great idea
[11:44] <elkbuntu> yeah, and that should get some questions asked, for sure
[11:44] <Plug> Advertised where?
[11:44] <elkbuntu> for the faqs
[11:44] <newz2000> Plug: Ubuntu forums?
[11:44] <elkbuntu> Plug, blogs and fridge woudl help ;)
[11:44] <LoudMouthMan> okay well ive mentioned for the UK we have children in need coming up , so engaging with defined charaties Locally and Internatinally will be useful
[11:45] <looksaus> elkbuntu, curiuous about this recruitment drive
[11:45] <looksaus> idea
[11:45] <jono> yeah
[11:45] <LoudMouthMan> id like to see if we cant get a sponsored install/hack fest day . for Children In Need.
[11:45] <jono> is anyone aware of an events ideas wiki page?
[11:45] <Plug> Right, I wondered if you meant "outside of that"
[11:45] <jono> ok lets first talk about recruitment
[11:45] <Plug> we're about to launch a NZ-package-wallpaper-contest with three goals
[11:45] <elkbuntu> looksaus, we spend a day pimpin locos, guiding people to the locos for their areas they may not have thought existed, etc
[11:46] <LoudMouthMan> things that drag TV Cameras out to watch things occur that are positive is useful
[11:46] <Plug> 1. get a wallpaper package 2. get certified 3. get people to know the LoCo exists, and get involved with it
[11:46] <LoudMouthMan> man that was vague!
[11:46] <JoeyStanford> I'm still a firm believer that while having documentation readily available on the internet is GOOD, it may not be of any benefit to someone who doesn't speak English.  Having the LoCo's  help create non-English docs is a big deal methinks.
[11:46] <jono> I think it makes sense to have a recruitment day, and this could involve day long meetings on our loco IRC channels, fridge and forums posts and IRC events such as getting to know each other sessions
[11:46] <dthacke1> is looking for other places to recruit besides the local LUG for reasons previously discussed
[11:46] <jono> JoeyStanford, great idea - we could identify key docs and get them translated
[11:47] <newz2000> JoeyStanford: Good point, do you loco teams search google and others for key phrases to see where they go?
[11:47] <newz2000> (in your own language)
[11:47] <jono> well should we make a recruitment day our first event?
[11:47] <LoudMouthMan> JoeyStanford , in fact everyone .. whose heard of the BNI ?
[11:47] <elkbuntu> jono, second considering today was docs day :
[11:47] <jono> hehe
[11:47] <jono> elkbuntu, smartarse :P
[11:47] <JoeyStanford> Newz, in my case it's English but I'm also on a translation team so I have some experience working with non-English speaking folks :-)
[11:48] <elkbuntu> i'd rather be a smartarse than a dumbarse ;P
[11:48] <jono> elkbuntu, oi!
[11:48] <glennji> LoudMouthMan, not me.
[11:48] <jono> LoudMouthMan, :P
[11:48] <jono> so maybe we have a LoCo Open Day
[11:48] <JoeyStanford> newz, from my experience, you are correct.  Google or Clusty.
[11:49] <LoudMouthMan> okay well if were looking for other areas to promote and recruit then locate your local BNI Chapter ( Business Network international ) and see if you drop in for a breakfast.
[11:49] <jono> where each of the loco team IRC channels has events, maybe physical events where possible and other things
[11:49] <elkbuntu> jono, agreed, i would assume lots of useful documenting would be done on the day, and calling it 'recruitment drive' sounds way too ominous
[11:49] <JoeyStanford> newz, coupled with altavista babelfish ;-)
[11:49] <Plug> ...and get it Slashdotted...
[11:49] <AdamBagnall> and dugg
[11:49] <glennji> jono, speaking as a "newbie" in the country AND ubuntu AND loco, I'd really like an Open Day.
[11:49] <LoudMouthMan> Plug, surely we need to be Dugg ?
[11:49] <looksaus> a nice recruitment activity I did in Belgium (well, the Dutch speaking 60%) was to use all my sources to find at least one person in every >50k inhabitants
[11:49] <elkbuntu> Plug, if you know someone/s who can arrange that, do so
[11:49] <Plug> pass, I don't do digg :P
[11:49] <jono> elkbuntu, ok, I think it would make sense to have a team of us working to get all LoCo's up and running with an Open Day
[11:50] <yama> "Recruitment drive? You mean Canonical is hiring???"
[11:50] <Plug> yama: good point
[11:50] <newz2000> yama: www.ubuntu.com/employment
[11:50] <jono> I think just saying "lets do an Open Day" is not enough to get all LoCo teams involved
[11:50] <elkbuntu> jono, you know i'll be there
[11:50] <jono> elkbuntu, cool :)
[11:50] <Plug> "Whats in it for them"?
[11:50] <elkbuntu> this is going to take a few weeks of plotting
[11:50] <jono> right, well I will send out a mail about the open day
[11:50] <jono> yes, luckily we can talk at the UDS
[11:50] <elkbuntu> yes, indeed
[11:50] <elkbuntu> who here will be at UDS?
[11:51] <jono> JoeyStanford, sorry?
[11:51] <JoeyStanford> jono: I have a topic change when you are ready
[11:51] <jono> JoeyStanford, oh np, we will finish this up first
[11:51] <jono> awesome, should we have a open day meeting?
[11:51] <jono> we can organise it when we are there
[11:51] <ajmitch> elkbuntu: you know I will be :)
[11:52] <elkbuntu> ajmitch, well yeah, i was hoping to find out things i didnt already know
[11:52] <elkbuntu> jono, yes, agreed
[11:52] <jono> cool, so people happy to make the open day our first major event?
[11:53] <elkbuntu> heck yes
[11:53] <JoeyStanford> Question for the Group: Has anyone developed a "what's in it for me?"  Yeah it comes up a lot here.
[11:54] <jono> maybe some standard posters for "reasons to be cheerful" :)
[11:54] <JoeyStanford> Not just why Ubuntu but why a LoCo
[11:54] <JoeyStanford> I'll add it to the Todo list
[11:54] <jono> :)
[11:54] <elkbuntu> rock on, JoeyStanford :)
[11:54] <jono> nice work JoeyStanford :)
[11:54] <jono> ok, any other ideas to bring up right now?
[11:55] <JoeyStanford> me me me
[11:55] <newz2000> jono: I added two things to the agenda
[11:55] <newz2000> we can talk about them later if you like
[11:55] <jono> newz2000, my only concern is time, we are nearly out
[11:55] <jono> newz2000, as per the first item, I have been working on that
[11:56] <jono> newz2000, sorry for the delay, been swamped
[11:56] <jono> newz2000, and I got your mail for the second one too
[11:56] <jono> newz2000, there is a session at UDS about standardising resources
[11:56] <newz2000> no prob, its good to be able to say you're workign on it
[11:56] <jono> newz2000, can I suggest we keep those items for the next meeting?
[11:56] <newz2000> That is just fine for me.
[11:57] <jono> newz2000, awesome
[11:57] <jono> so, next item folks?
[11:57] <LoudMouthMan> yep
[11:57] <jono> Emil? are you here?
[11:57] <elkbuntu> what is his irc nick?
[11:58] <jono> no idea
[11:58] <jono> anyone know who Emil is?
[11:58] <elkbuntu> scouring for info now
[11:58] <newz2000> opi according to launchpad
[11:59] <jono> not here?
[11:59] <elkbuntu> -NickServ-           Last Seen: 5 hours 12 minutes 29 seconds ago
[11:59] <newz2000> opi :No such nick/channel
[11:59] <jono> just pinging
[11:59] <jono> erk
[11:59] <jono> ok, well we can't discuss that without him
[11:59] <jono> so we will defer that too
[11:59] <jono> just before we finish...
[11:59] <Plug> which makes it time for lunch :P
[11:59] <jono> if everyone could look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamsUDSMVSpecs
[12:00] <jono> these are the specs I have added for the UDS that are LoCo related
[12:00] <jono> I am still working on filling them out
[12:00] <jono> if anyone has any thoughts or comments, at them to the pages so we can cover them at the sessions
[12:00] <jono> I will be blogging about it soon to drum up interest in the issues
[12:00] <Plug> I've told ajmitch he must attend all of these. :P
[12:00] <jono> and final, final thing, how is this time for everyone for a meeting?
[12:00] <jono> Plug, :P
[12:00] <looksaus> jono, do you prefer additions as comments to these pages?
[12:01] <jono> looksaus, yes please
[12:01] <looksaus> ok
[12:01] <jono> I should outline that on the page really
[12:01] <LoudMouthMan> okay well i can see a few items in that which Popey would find interesting
[12:01] <dthacke1> jono, time is not bad.
[12:01] <newz2000> jono: I'm here
[12:01] <jono> looksaus, well, they can be visible, but identify the comment with your name
[12:01] <newz2000> dthacke1: we're in the same timezone :)
[12:01] <looksaus> k
[12:01] <jono> we are still finding out feet with meeting times, so lets see what people think
[12:02] <jono> well, I think we are done folks
[12:02] <elkbuntu> :)
[12:02] <dthacke1> newz2000: hi neighbor, can I borrow a cup of Edgy CD's?
[12:02] <jono> you are doing an awesome job with our community, I am really proud of everyone :)
[12:02] <jono> lets keep kicking arse in new and different ways :)
[12:02] <LoudMouthMan> hmm better hire octopuses then .. they can kick arse 8 ways !
[12:02] <elkbuntu> we have you to thank though, jono.
[12:02] <JoeyStanford> +1
[12:02] <jono> I think if we continue to grow the project, get our docs written, we can do some awesome stuff :)
[12:02] <looksaus> +1
[12:03] <LoudMouthMan> but cheers Jono
[12:03] <jono> :)
[12:03] <kjcole> I'll try to remember to keep up with this (I got away from all the on-line stuff for a while)...  Later all
[12:03] <newz2000> dthacke1: just burned my first last night!
[12:03] <jono> nice one, thanks folks :)
[12:05] <newz2000> dthacke1: where is the nebraska team based?
[12:05] <newz2000> (where in Nebraska that is)
[12:05] <Rinchen> Good question, I can smell and Colorado and Nebraska shindig
[12:05] <dthacke1> Omaha for now,  I need more help, so I'm going to start recruiting out west.
[12:05] <jono> later all!
[12:05] <newz2000> dthacke1: cool. I'm not far, in Des MOines
[12:06] <newz2000> Rinchen: where are you at?
[12:06] <Rinchen> Denver/Boulder
[12:06] <dthacke1> Is there an Iowa Team or are you working with the Midwest team
[12:06] <newz2000> I'm not part of either team, and as far as I know, there is no Iowa team.
[12:07] <Rinchen> I've been thinking about reaching out to you and others nearby to have a multi-state Ubuntu Conference.
[12:07] <newz2000> Rinchen: I used to live in Windsor Colorado
[12:07] <newz2000> near fort collins/greely.
[12:07] <Rinchen> Ah, well, I'm 66 and County line :-)
[12:07] <dthacke1> newz, I have a daughter in college down in Lamoni, I was thinking of doing something down there.  Maybe you could give us a hand?
[12:07] <newz2000> maybe. I think you're my closest loco team
[12:08] <dthacke1> Well, we decided we'd start with a day's drive from Omaha, including Western Iowa, until Iowa started doing their own thing.
[12:09] <newz2000> dthacke1: have you had any group meetings yet?
[12:09] <dthacke1> but we're only a week old.  Just got mailing list last night.
[12:09] <newz2000> ah, so that's a no.
[12:09] <newz2000> :D
[12:09] <Burgwork> is the locomeeting done?
[12:09] <Burgwork> can we move out of -meeting?
[12:09] <newz2000> sure
[12:09] <dthacke1> yep, heading to locoteams


[12:46] <cjwatson>   File "/home/cjwatson/src/canonical/launchpad/git/launchpad/lib/lp/buildmaster/manager.py", line 641, in update
[12:46] <cjwatson>     transaction.sbort()
[12:46]  * cjwatson is clever
[12:46] <cjwatson> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'sbort'
[12:46] <cjwatson> it sure doesn't
[12:47] <wgrant> Sounds like a serious Zope bug, really.
[12:49] <tomwardill> sounds like it could be easier to use
[12:50] <tomwardill> someone must have done a levenshtein implementation for __call__, right?
[12:54] <wgrant> Should be built into the MRO, really.
[13:38] <tomwardill> cjwatson: slightly silly question, but how do I test/operate a running codebrowse instance?
[13:44] <cjwatson> tomwardill: should be able to go to https://bazaar.launchpad.test/~some/branch/path or so
[13:44] <cjwatson> assuming you've pushed something to a local codehosting
[13:45] <tomwardill> ah, right
[13:45] <cjwatson> I can't remember whether codebrowse requires local filesystem access to the branch storage
[13:45] <cjwatson> Which is obviously somewhat relevant for what you're experimenting with
[13:46] <wgrant> It uses dumb HTTP
[13:46] <SpecialK|Canon> I'd assumed it didn't because babaco didn't look SAN-y
[13:46] <SpecialK|Canon> but equally maybe there's a sharedfs there!


[00:19] <xubuntu656> thank you all for creating ubuntu!
[00:20] <xubuntu656> xubuntu i mean
[00:20] <xubuntu656> it's perfect
[00:20] <ochosi> thanks xubuntu656
[00:20] <xubuntu656> almost done installing
[00:20] <ochosi> enjoy!
[00:21] <xubuntu656> took me 5 minutes
[01:02] <LordNed> I'm getting Write-error on swap-device while installing and I think the progress bar has stopped
[01:03] <LordNed> Has my install died and am I in trouble? :v
[01:24] <holstein> LordNed: you are not in trouble in any way from what you are doing if this is a fresh install. i konw, when i see errors like that i want to test the hard drive
[01:25] <LordNed> holstein, yeah I'm installing to a jump drive and I think the drive is pretty crummy
[01:25] <LordNed> Don't look like I have much choice
[01:26] <holstein> i would just not have a swap partition in that case..
[01:26] <holstein> but, if the drive is bad, it'll just be bad.. not much you can do in software to deal with it
[01:27] <LordNed> Wish I was doing an install on an actual hard drive, would have gone a lot better I imagine :p
[01:28] <holstein> LordNed: a jump drive *is* a drive.. you can install to those, and SD cards
[01:28] <holstein> i used to run from usb sticks and sd cards often.. its handy
[01:29] <LordNed> holstein, yeah, but hard disks are much better more reliable/better off than cheap jump drives :p
[01:29] <holstein> LordNed: not necessarily
[01:36] <holstein> LordNed: read/write speed would be the concern for using a usb stick as a hard drive.. not reliablilty
[01:36] <LordNed> holstein, I'm just bouncing from one wonderful issue to another today
[01:37] <LordNed> Was having issues earlier with grub(?) timing out waiting for root and not being able to boot after finishing an install
[01:37] <LordNed> Now my install is telling me it's unable to create director '/root/.cache/dconf': Permissiond enied
[01:37] <holstein> LordNed: if that drive is bad/failing, then you will have those issues..
[01:38] <LordNed> Though google suggests it's not an issue and that nothing actually crashes/bursts into flames from dconf..
[01:38] <holstein> LordNed: correct.. i have not had that issue.. though i have seen similar errors when dealing with bad drives
[01:39] <LordNed> The good news is, if the drive goes toast after I get the install done at a later date, no big loss. THe bad news is I just don't have another drive right now
[01:39] <holstein> LordNed: i would wipe that entire drive.. format it (even though its a usb stick) and maybe even try a test on it if possible.. then, i would try to install without creating a swap partition
[01:39] <holstein> i would use...
[01:39] <holstein> !minimal | LordNed
[01:39] <resizt0r> could someone help me with a fresh install not able to assign an ip address?
[01:40] <holstein> or, the alternate.. which would allow me to manually choose where and how grub gets installed
[01:40] <holstein> resizt0r: your router is not set to do that automatically? if not, you'll just do static ip's like you do for the rest of the network
[01:41] <LordNed> holstein, can the Mini CD be booted from a USB drive to install to another USB drive?
[01:41] <resizt0r> i dont do static ip's
[01:41] <resizt0r> the computer in question is setup to have an ip assigned to it
[01:41] <holstein> LordNed: correct..
[01:41] <resizt0r> specifically
[01:41] <resizt0r> which works fine in windows
[01:42] <resizt0r> and also has worked fine on linux in the past
[01:42] <holstein> resizt0r: then, it should be working.. in order for me to troubleshoot, i will need more information. the windows performance is really irrelevant, except to prove that the hardware is functional
[01:42] <holstein> resizt0r: how do you know the device is working? and not getting an IP?
[01:43] <resizt0r> well, it tries to connect about 50 times
[01:43] <resizt0r> before it gives up
[01:43] <holstein> resizt0r: what does?
[01:43] <resizt0r> just says "obtaining ip address"
[01:44] <resizt0r> ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, mint 13 14 15
[01:44] <holstein> resizt0r: mint is not supported here
[01:44] <resizt0r> i didnt ask any questions about mint
[01:44] <resizt0r> did i?
[01:44] <holstein> resizt0r: what are you running right now? and how are you running it? xubuntu 13.10?
[01:44] <resizt0r> currently it has ubuntu 13.10 running
[01:45] <holstein> resizt0r: and, what networking device?
[01:45] <resizt0r> built in lan on an Asus M5A99FX
[01:45] <resizt0r> a realtek device i believe
[01:45] <holstein> resizt0r: confirm what it is, and let us know.. you can use lspci in a terminal
[01:46] <resizt0r> Realtek Semiconductor co.
[01:46] <holstein> resizt0r: when are you getting what error message exactly?
[01:47] <resizt0r> RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller rev 09
[01:47] <resizt0r> i dont get an error message
[01:47] <resizt0r> it just tries to connect over and over until it quits trying
[01:47] <holstein> resizt0r: the message about 'trying to connect', or 'getting an ip address' 50 times, as you said
[01:47] <holstein> resizt0r: when does what exactly happen?
[01:47] <resizt0r> it does it when i boot up
[01:47] <resizt0r> automatically
[01:48] <resizt0r> im not sure what scientific answer you're looking for, it tries to connect to the internet and cant
[01:48] <resizt0r> im not an expert, that's all i really know other than what it says during connecting
[01:48] <resizt0r> 'obtaining ip address'
[01:49] <holstein> resizt0r: http://askubuntu.com/questions/361029/wifi-not-working-after-upgrading-from-12-04-to-13-10
[01:49] <resizt0r> also i know that the mac address matches that shown in my router config
[01:49] <resizt0r> its not wifi
[01:49] <resizt0r> its wired
[01:49] <holstein> resizt0r: correct.. but, does that look like your issue?
[01:49] <resizt0r> also, i've tried from version 11.04 up
[01:49] <resizt0r> let me look
[01:50] <holstein> resizt0r: tried what?
[01:50] <resizt0r> ubuntu, xubuntu, kubuntu 11.04, 12.04, 12.10, 13.10
[01:50] <holstein> resizt0r: sure.. tried what in all those? this wired device? and it doesnt work?
[01:51] <holstein> resizt0r: all the *buntus are the same.. for hardware support.. they all use the same kernels and the same repos
[01:51] <holstein> resizt0r: the releases, such as 12.04 vs 13.10, that can matter a lot
[01:52] <resizt0r> well, at least that person has the same wired network adapter as i do
[01:52] <resizt0r> but mine just says wired network
[01:52] <holstein> resizt0r: ok.. so, thats *not* the issue, then, correct?
[01:52] <resizt0r> and i dont have any wireless
[01:52] <resizt0r> im going to see if any wireless is enabled
[01:53] <resizt0r> nevermind, it doesnt even show up in my network settings
[01:53] <holstein> resizt0r: correct.. you dont have wireless.. i didnt mean to imply that i thought you did.. but, that link for the issue i linked is not good for you, correct? since its not referencing the ethernet?
[01:53] <resizt0r> the pc in question used to have xubuntu 12.04 on it, running fantastically
[01:54] <holstein> resizt0r: 12.04 is still supported
[01:54] <resizt0r> yeah i loved 12.04
[01:54] <holstein> resizt0r: could be that support for that device has been dropped from the kernel, though, it should be able to be added back
[01:54] <resizt0r> but when i put in the livecd it just says the same crap
[01:54] <resizt0r> 'obtaining ip address'
[01:55] <holstein> resizt0r: then, that supports a hardware issue.. and i know you say it works in windows
[01:55] <holstein> resizt0r: if 12.04 used to work, you could try getting a 12.04 *older* iso.. the same one you had before..
[01:55] <resizt0r> original 12.04
[01:55] <resizt0r> rather than 12.04.2
[01:56] <resizt0r> i should have one on the backup drive
[01:56] <holstein> resizt0r: sure, and you probably got a newer one just now and tested.. not the *exact* *same* one
[01:56] <holstein> resizt0r: the derivitives dont matter.. you dont need to test kubuntu 13.10 vs xubuntu 13.10, also, mint will be the same, since they use the same kernels as well
[01:57] <resizt0r> i have them all from version 9
[01:57] <holstein> resizt0r: then, try the one that worked live.. if it doenst work, then you need to entertain the idea that its hardware related
[01:58] <resizt0r> guess i'll just keep windows :(
[01:58] <resizt0r> thx
[01:58] <holstein> resizt0r: i never suggested removing it
[01:59] <holstein> resizt0r: i suggested trying the *exact* live cd that worked in the past
[02:00] <resizt0r> sorry im just frustrated with it, ive been trying distros and googling about this for 2 weeks
[02:01] <resizt0r> not to mention the countless irc hours in linux chat rooms
[02:01] <holstein> resizt0r: and, im afraid to say, it looks hardware related.. though, i know you say it works in windows
[02:02] <holstein> resizt0r: i dont find anything searching either, and thats usually because folks arent having issues with it..
[02:04] <resizt0r> i'll have to create another liveusb to test any more
[02:04] <resizt0r> this is the machine that i would prefer to run linux on
[02:04] <resizt0r> Connection: Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller @ 1000.0 Mbps (Rec: 1.64MB Sent: 2.25MB)
[02:05] <holstein> resizt0r: i understand... but i think you should entertain something set in the bios, or something going on from windows..
[02:06] <holstein> resizt0r: i used to have a wubi install.. i would boot ubuntu in wubi, then, if i restarted the machine into *any* other os, the wired NIC was dead
[02:06] <resizt0r> what is a wubi install
[02:06] <holstein> resizt0r: i had to unplug the machine.. phyisically disconnect the machine from the wall to get it to work again
[02:06] <holstein> !wubi
[02:07] <resizt0r> oh, i dont do that
[02:07] <holstein> resizt0r: not important.. im just saying, i think you are assuming a bit, and looking for an answer based on an assumption
[02:07] <holstein> resizt0r: im not saying you do or did that
[02:07] <resizt0r> i just want to replace windows
[02:07] <resizt0r> :/
[02:07] <holstein> resizt0r: what im saying is.. i had to physically remove the power cord to get my wired NIC to come back up
[02:07] <resizt0r> hmm
[02:07] <holstein> resizt0r: wired NIC's are cheap, friend
[02:08] <holstein> resizt0r: all im saying is, you might have to think outside the box a bit here
[02:08] <resizt0r> well this board never fully powers down even rebooting
[02:08] <resizt0r> either
[02:08] <resizt0r> so that could be an idea
[02:08] <holstein> resizt0r: its a plausible issue that happens to wired NIC's
[02:09] <holstein> resizt0r: but, im not saying that is the issue.. im just saying, there can be other possibilities than "linux doesent support my NIC"
[02:09] <resizt0r> well i know it supports it
[02:09] <resizt0r> i've seen it work fine with it before
[02:09] <holstein> resizt0r: well, you know it did, at least
[02:09] <resizt0r> about 6 months ago
[02:10] <holstein> resizt0r: and, i think it is safe-ish to assume that it is functional if its working in windows
[02:10] <resizt0r> the only thing i can think of that i have done
[02:10] <holstein> resizt0r: the only issue is, i dont see any issues online about it, and it should just be working..
[02:10] <resizt0r> network-related
[02:10] <resizt0r> is i tried out a bunch of those IP mask/changing softwares
[02:11] <holstein> resizt0r: i would be connecting this unit to a known good, and simple connection that is not expectin the machine to do anything
[02:12] <resizt0r> well, to my router
[02:12] <resizt0r> which is a cisco e3200
[02:12] <holstein> plug in another router thats not online and see if it gets an IP.. remove the router from the equation by trying another one
[02:13] <resizt0r> i'll just remove the router
[02:13] <resizt0r> how about that
[02:13] <resizt0r> modem > pc
[02:13] <holstein> resizt0r: i dont know your modem.. my modem wouldnt workk like that with linux
[02:14] <resizt0r> it's also a cisco
[02:14] <holstein> resizt0r: the brand is not the issue
[02:14] <resizt0r> well the only other router i had i gave away last week
[02:14] <holstein> resizt0r: if i had another machine there to test with, i might go that way
[02:14] <resizt0r> i've connected many pc's to my modem without the router
[02:14] <holstein> resizt0r: then, just know that whatever IP masking services you have setup or configured in whatever way on teh router *could* be causing an issue
[02:15] <resizt0r> when i first moved here and didnt have any equipment
[02:15] <holstein> resizt0r: i have too, and sometimes, it doesnt work
[02:15] <resizt0r> i dont have any masking services or anything running atm
[02:15] <resizt0r> im gonna reboot into a liveusb and test it out with no router
[02:16] <holstein> after pulling the power cord
[02:16] <resizt0r> yes
[02:16] <resizt0r> full power down
[02:16] <resizt0r> pull power cord
[02:16] <resizt0r> direct connection
[02:16] <resizt0r> brb
[02:27] <resizt0r> so the liveusb is working great without the router attached
[02:27] <resizt0r> i also unplugged fully
[02:28] <resizt0r> which means the root of this problem must be the router
[02:39] <resizt0r> well
[02:40] <resizt0r> not sure what happened
[02:40] <resizt0r> but it works
[02:40] <resizt0r> i did a hard reset on my router
[04:56] <xubuntu895> hi
[04:57] <xubuntu895> hi
[04:57] <xubuntu895> anyone there
[05:00] <RipresaTecn> im here
[05:00] <xubuntu895> hi
[05:01] <xubuntu895> I wanted to connect my xubuntu to internet using pppoe
[05:01] <xubuntu895> how can i do it?
[05:02] <RipresaTecn> yikes I have yet to use ppoe however i assume the settings would be in the "Network Manager" in the top right hand side near the clock.
[05:03] <RipresaTecn> ok it lookes like they are not
[05:03] <xubuntu895> yeah i found it but it dooes not connect to internet
[05:03] <xubuntu895> does clone mac address in DSL change my mac add
[05:04] <RipresaTecn> http://askubuntu.com/questions/83869/setting-up-a-pppoe-connection-in-ubuntu
[05:04] <xubuntu895> thanks for that !
[05:19] <danjg> hi, does anyone know how to modify the auto-shutoff settings for when a computer gets too hot?
[05:35] <danjg> hi, does anyone know how to modify the auto-shutoff settings for when a computer gets too hot?
[05:49] <us`0gb> I didn't even know such a setting was available.
[07:06] <ObrienDave> ASDFGHJKL;'
[07:06] <ObrienDave> +
[07:07] <ObrienDave> oops, sorry about that
[07:11] <DrChill> Hello all, whenever I maximize a window it does not maximize al the way
[07:11] <DrChill> I believe am using 13.10
[07:11] <DrChill> It is rather unusual
[07:13] <DrChill> I suppose 1 in the morning is not the time to ask this question?
[07:16] <DrChill> Monkeytoe: Are you a xubuntu dev?
[07:20] <ObrienDave> lol, you can ask at anytime. someone may not be awake to answer ;)
[08:28] <nait> hello there!!
[08:31] <ObrienDave> greetings
[08:40] <nait> I have this problem ! someone can help me? http://oi41.tinypic.com/2z3td76.jpg
[08:50] <nyRednek> nait: looks like you need to install boot repair
[08:51] <nyRednek> nait: http://www.howtogeek.com/114884/
[08:58] <nait> nyRednek ok :)
[08:58] <nyRednek> nait: that might fix your issue
[08:58] <nyRednek> nait: but no guarantees
[08:59] <nait> nyRednek I'll try :s
[08:59] <elfy> nait: if not you should be able to do so from the live dvd/usb you used https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing#via_the_LiveCD_terminal
[09:04] <nait> elfy, can i run xubuntu-live cd 12.04 via terminal??
[09:05] <elfy> no - you need to boot with it
[09:21] <elfy> nait: I'd go with boot repair first - you can install that via the livecd - if that doesn't work for you - and it might, do it the old way in the wiki
[09:28] <nyRednek> nait: what elfy said
[11:00] <xubuntu027> sup people
[12:24] <amjjawad> Hi, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2194128 thoughts?
[14:48] <xubuntu460> I installed Xubuntu desktop over Lubuntu, but I couldn't find a way to remove lubuntu
[14:53] <GridCube> xubuntu460 there is no easy way of doing that, the easiest way to have a clean system is to do a clean install, else you can browse http://packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/lubuntu-desktop  and compare it agains http://packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/xubuntu-desktop then remove the parts that only concern to lubuntu, this a fine work that can take a whole lot of time
[15:02] <Poisoned_Dragon> lubuntu uses lxde components.
[15:02] <Poisoned_Dragon> Maybe that'll help with the package search
[15:02] <Poisoned_Dragon> Oh, and openbox for the Window Manager.
[16:16] <syeekick> anyone know off hand how to change your ip ?
[16:16] <Duderino222> internal or external?
[16:17] <syeekick> what ever the router see's
[16:18] <Duderino222> external: just disconnect/reconnect if you dont have a fixed IP
[16:19] <syeekick> im not sure what this hotspot uses
[16:20] <syeekick> they offer 30 mins of free internet and then cut you off. so i change my mac adress every 30 mins to get an extra 30 ... but it goes alot slower than the intial connection
[16:20] <Duderino222> so its not your IP you want to change but MAC....
[16:21] <Duderino222> IP is something they give you.... you dont HAVE it
[16:21] <syeekick> well i change the mac with macchanger and its fine. i just think im getting slower speeds cause of the previous IP i used is the same im using with the different mac
[16:21] <syeekick> oh
[16:21] <syeekick> sorry networking isn't my thing :P
[16:22] <Duderino222> np
[16:22] <syeekick> i'd love to learn it but don't know where to start.
[16:22] <Duderino222> are u using ubuntu?
[16:22] <syeekick> xubuntu
[16:23] <syeekick> but yeah :p
[16:23] <Duderino222> well.... then check wikis in ubuntu webspace or more general, go to tldp.org
[16:23] <Duderino222> youll find everything you need there
[16:25] <syeekick> yeah i think i have their pdf. its the linux handbook that they offer for free. same title
[16:25] <Duderino222> they have a couple of these "books". they are pretty good at giving overview and detailed knowledge
[16:26] <bazhang> !rute
[16:26] <Poisoned_Dragon> Has anyone had issues with kworker wrecking havoc on their mouse/touchpad functionality?
[16:27] <syeekick> awesome documentation there, bookmarked!
[18:13] <SocialEvil> hi guys. i put my livecd on xubuntu in order to install the os on my computer but it freeezes on loading. its version 12.04 and it says xubuntu and the logo and underneath that there is a scroll going left and right.. but now it froze on the middle and nothing happens
[18:13] <SocialEvil> any idea?
[18:17] <holstein> !md5
[18:17] <holstein> SocialEvil: you can verify the sum.. i would try the media on another machine if you have one handy.. then, assuming the machine can boot media, and the media is "good", move on to..
[18:17] <holstein> !nomodeset
[18:20] <Pwnna> is X server suppose to use like 550MB of RAM?
[18:21] <holstein> Pwnna: doesnt on my machine, with the drivers in use for my particular hardware.. have you looked for and applied upgrades?
[18:22] <Pwnna> intel
[18:22] <Pwnna> mesa 10git
[18:22] <holstein> Pwnna: an upgrade could provide a "fix".. try that first
[18:22] <Pwnna> i have the latest version..
[18:22] <Pwnna> i have a bunch of graphics intensive applications open (2 instances of the document reader with big pdfs, 2 instances of xournal with big notes)
[18:24] <Pwnna> http://imgur.com/RRz6iiv
[18:26] <SocialEvil> holstein, i wanted to reinstal it cause i get the black screen that the article sais about.. then i do what they say for the nomodeset .. but i get an error hub_port_status failed err= -71 any idea ?
[18:27] <holstein> SocialEvil: i would test the media on another machine.. i would test other media on the machine
[18:27] <SocialEvil> holstein, no other machine :( my father is doing this in another country
[18:27] <holstein> SocialEvil: then, confirm the md5, and recreate the media. try another iso.. 13.10 for example
[18:37] <SocialEvil> holstein, thanks
[18:45] <sda> Hi all! I would like to access my desktop from another device. I would also like to be able to choose the resolution at connection like RDP. Also I would like to be able to connect with different users. Do you have any Idea? VNC doesn't seems fit my need!
[18:47] <holstein> teamvewier or splashtop are easy
[20:05] <xubuntu346> hi I'm new to using xubuntu 13.10,  my computer goes to black screen and completely freezes.  ctl-alt-F1 does not bring up terminal.  only way to recover is to power down and power up again.  I feel like I'm using Windows again!!
[20:05] <holstein> xubuntu346: you are using windows?
[20:06] <holstein> oh.. nm.. i see.. xubuntu346, what caused this?
[20:07] <xubuntu346> I don't know.  it runs fine for a couple hours, then I walk away and the screen goes black and I cannot get back into my computer.   I thought maybe it was my screen, but I can't ssh in either.  it likes the whole operating system freezes
[20:07] <holstein> xubuntu346: are you up to date with upgrades?
[20:08] <xubuntu346> i'm not sure.  I only installed it a week ago
[20:08] <holstein> xubuntu346: in a terminal.. "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" and reboot and see if you see the issue
[20:09] <xubuntu346> okay i will try.  is this a known issue?
[20:09] <holstein> xubuntu346: no.. its not a global "everyone is experiencing this" bug, if thats what you are asking
[20:09] <holstein> xubuntu346: many things can be causing *just* you to be experiencing this..
[20:09] <xubuntu346> i'm using Xubuntu 13.10
[20:10] <holstein> xubuntu346: lets start with the upgrades and proceed from there
[20:10] <holstein> xubuntu346: on any version of any os that the vendor of your hardware has not expressedly encouraged you to run on that hardware, you could run into issues
[20:18] <xubuntu346> it is booting to my desktop, but the desktop is completely unresponsive
[20:19] <holstein> xubuntu346: after upgrading? and rebooting?
[20:19] <xubuntu346> i couldn't do that yet
[20:19] <holstein> xubuntu346: it was like this with windows? .. are you sure its not a hardware problem?
[20:19] <holstein> xubuntu346: you will want to do that first.. upgrade
[20:20] <xubuntu346> yeah i can't get to terminal
[20:20] <holstein> i would boot up and try a TTY right off
[20:20] <holstein> i wouldnt even login in the gui
[20:21] <xubuntu346> I'm not sure what you mean,  recovery mode?
[20:23] <xubuntu346> so how do i just boot right to a shell without gui?
[20:24] <xubuntu346> i would like to try this to rule out the desktop as the source of the problem
[20:25] <holstein> xubuntu346: i would just not login in teh GUI and try a TTY
[20:25] <holstein> !tty
[20:25] <holstein> xubuntu346: then, i would try tapping shift at boot and go for older kernels if they are present or the recovery mode
[20:26] <holstein> xubuntu346: i would also load up a live CD and test the hardware.. i would test the hard drive and memory
[20:26] <holstein> xubuntu346: if the live enviroment works fine, and the hard drive shows errors, you will not "Fix" that with software
[20:30] <xubuntu346> gotcha i will try live cd
[21:01] <m57> this is probably off topice, but has anyone ever had or does have the razer kraken 7.1 USB headset? if so, or not, does anyone know if you can get them working on ubuntu ?
[21:03] <m57> or is there a generic set of instructions to get a usb audio device to play sound ? I was wondering if I would have to write any programs which I wouldnt mind if i had to and someone could point me in the right direction
[22:11] <linux> Hi Everyone, Can somebody tell me how to use KWin on Xubuntu?
[22:12] <knome> linux, that doesn't make sense; if you want to run kwin, you probably want to go ahead and simply use kde
[22:13] <linux> I just wanted to know if it's possible.
[22:14] <knome> it should be possible to get it running under xubuntu.
[22:14] <linux> Because KDE doesn't have that quality themes then other enviroments
[22:39] <LordNed> Can anyone advise me whether running do-release-upgrade to go up from Xubuntu 12.20 to 13.04 is a good idea or not? I'm having a bunch of issues with 12.20 (X being unable to start on its own, etc.)
[22:40] <ochosi> you must be talking about 12.10
[22:40] <ochosi> well generally speaking it should be fine, but upgrades are never risk-free
[22:40] <LordNed> Oops, yeah sorry
[22:41] <ochosi> do a backup before you do it
[22:41] <LordNed> ochosi, It's the tossup between "maybe it'll fix my problems" and "maybe it'll make them worse" :/
[22:41] <ochosi> have you tried a live-session from a usb stick in 13.04?
[22:41] <ochosi> and anyway, why not directly go to 13.10 which is the latest release?
[22:41] <LordNed> Right now I have to run "sudo chmod ug-s /tmp/.X11-unix" and then "startx", because currently the machine just boots to TTY1 and can't startX without the chmod
[22:41] <LordNed> ochosi, I tried to boot a 13.10 live-session from USB and had no luck getting that to actually boot.
[22:42] <ochosi> so what's the matter with your computer? :p
[22:42] <LordNed> ochosi, it's falling apart apparently!
[22:42] <ochosi> hehe
[22:42] <LordNed> ...it's taken me almost two days to get Xubuntu installed and running :-/
[22:42] <ochosi> yeah, but have you figured out what's the culprit?
[22:43] <LordNed> for why X doesn't start?
[22:43] <ochosi> yeah
[22:44] <LordNed> Nope! It worked on first boot, installed proprietary AMD drivers, and it hasn't worked normally since then
[22:45] <ochosi> switch back to the open drivers then?
[22:46] <LordNed> tried that and it didn't let X boot again. I've clearly got some issue, but I don't know what it is :/
[22:48] <ochosi> LordNed: you can start to look at logs
[22:49] <ochosi> e.g. /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[22:52] <LordNed> ochosi, I will give that a shot as soon as I have it powered up again, thanks
[22:52] <ochosi> np
[22:52] <ochosi> and good luck
[22:55] <xubuntu346> does anybody know how to change to auto-login through the command prompt
[22:56] <ochosi> xubuntu346: you have to go and edit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf with superuser/admin rights (e.g. "sudo nano...")
[22:58] <xubuntu346> [SeatDefaults] autologin-guest=false autologin-user=frank autologin-user-timeout=0 autologin-session=lightdm-autologin greeter-session=lightdm-gtk-greeter user-session=xubuntu
[22:59] <xubuntu346> so it looks like i'm already setup for it, but it keeps asking for a password
[23:02] <xubuntu346> user frank is already setup for autologin
[23:02] <xubuntu346> but it keeps asking me for a password, and then on top of that when I do type it in it doesn't log me in
[23:03] <LordNed> ochosi, is there a reason I have Xorg.1.log and Xorg.0.log? (I have two GPU's in the machine)
[23:03] <knome> LordNed, the logs just rotate in that way; bigger number is older log
[23:03] <knome> LordNed, so basically you can have even more, and that's normal
[23:05] <LordNed> knome, thanks!
[23:06] <LordNed> http://hastebin.com/vuficadoti.vhdl anyone see anything out of the unusual in my Xorg log that would cause it to not boot unless I chmod ug-s /tmp/.X11-unix each boot?
[23:09] <ochosi> LordNed: no, to be frank i can't
[23:10] <ochosi> i also don't know what /tmp/.X11-unix does
[23:10] <LordNed> One google post suggests "Re-emerging gnome-power-manager and hal with the acpi and laptop USE flags enabled seems to have solved this problem..."
[23:11] <LordNed> Should I fiddle with noacpi / nolapic?


[06:53] <ppisati> moin
[09:17]  * apw yawns theatrically
[09:18]  * smb tries to throw little pieces of paper
[09:19] <smb> apw, Maybe I could be a little more polite and throw Shreddies. You want the regular ones or the new diamond ones. ;-P
[09:25] <apw> funny i was shoving shreddies in myself when you said that, though we don't have no diamond ones
[09:25] <smb> apw, Its just in your mind as cking found on the webs
[09:26]  * apw looks for the camera in the corner of the room
[09:26] <cking> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8McutvNwtI
[09:27] <smb> cking, Heh, yes that one
[09:27] <smb> Good morning btw
[19:42] <melodie> hi
[19:44] <melodie> I could bring an information about the kernel 3.8-something which is in Precise, and the kernel 3.2.0-59 (replaced now), regarding the ndiswrapper module, and what occurs while compiling it. So there is an issue with ndiswrapper in Precise, but I will not take the time to report on Launchpad now. If someone is interested I can talk about it here
[19:44] <melodie> this evening
[22:47] <miseria> "¿quien eres tu, para decir que estoy loco?; nadie es perfecto, soy feliz a mi manera, intentalo y seras feliz" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*


[00:03] <ScottL> falktx, will you still be able to help with the iframes for the website and coding a different ubuntustudio-controls?
[00:03] <falktx> ScottL: yes, sure
[00:03] <falktx> I quit my job 2 weeks ago ;)
[00:04] <falktx> (but with plans for a new one for 2012)
[00:05] <knome> ScottL, sorry for not being so active on the website lately. i asked the canonical IS about the RT ticket though, and they said it's gonna take some more time anyway
[00:24] <ScottL> knome, i think that is okay since i would like to get as much done before the IS security check anyways
[00:24] <knome> yeah
[00:25] <ScottL> knome, i'm hoping stochastic is making progress with this but i don't think he's moving quickly
[00:25] <ScottL> i have concerns about this
[00:25] <knome> right
[07:50] <jussi> Morning all.
[07:50] <jussi> Has anyone looked at kdenlive recently? Has it improved any?
[07:51] <jussi> There is a bleeding edge ppa here for all those interested to have a play with the very latest: https://launchpad.net/~sunab/+archive/kdenlive-svn
[09:34] <jussi> Also, this might be something we want to get packaged for ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/~psyke83/+archive/ppa (pulseaudio-equaliser)
[10:11] <ailo> ScottL, Is Alessio Bogani going to provide the -lowlatency to be tested, as described in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-lowlatency
[10:11] <ailo> ?
[11:56] <ScottL> ailo, yes, that is the intent
[11:56] <ScottL> ailo, but we are also going to be doing some very objective testing (with instructions provided by the kernel team) if you are interested
[11:57] <ScottL> the kernel team would like to objectively test the -generic vs -lowlatency vs -rt kernel
[11:57] <ScottL> once have a lot of data, we collate it, document it in a wiki, and decide if -lowlatency is really worth it, and then move one
[11:57] <ScottL> on
[11:58] <ScottL> ailo, would you be interested in helping with this testing
[11:58] <ScottL> oh, the purpose of the documentation is to not only provide the data to justify our decision, but also to give users expectations
[12:33] <ailo> ScottL, If more testers are needed, I'm happy to assist.
[12:34] <ailo> ScottL, The current -lowlatency is ahead the -generic by one version, and doesn't handle graphic drivers
[12:34] <ailo> I'm using my own custom compiled
[12:34] <ailo> Was considering to put it up on my ppa, but I realized I need to understand debian packagin a bit more, so it's not happening soon
[12:35] <ailo> bogani is calling the -lowlatency at his ppa "old"
[12:36] <ailo> Just wondering where the new one might be and how to get it
[13:00] <scott-work> good morning again
[14:16] <astraljava> ailo: I don't think there is a newer one anywhere, yet.
[14:17] <jussi> astraljava: any thoughts about my suggestions before you woke up?
[14:34] <astraljava> kdenlive and pulseaudio-equalizer? I'll have to look into that. The latter didn't work very well the last time I used it, but it might have progressed from since.
[14:34] <astraljava> I don't know anything about the former, it's not really my speciality, don't know much about video nor graphics.
[15:03] <scott-work> jussi: the current thought is to follow two tracks for video; one for casual user for home movies and a professional track for films
[15:03] <scott-work> the editor for the home user is not determined, but kdenlive has been considered as well as openshot
[15:33] <shnatsel> Dammit, the US are trying to censor the internet again, and this time it's much worse: http://www.mozilla.org/sopa/
[15:35] <astraljava> We're not doing any such a thing!
[15:41] <astraljava> Oh, you meant the States, not the Studio. Sorry, my bad. *blink* *blink*
[15:45] <shnatsel> sorry for confusing abbreviation :(
[15:51] <astraljava> Pardon me, I knew what you meant. I'm just such a bastard I can't help but to jump at the opportunity.
[15:53] <scott-work> hi shnatsel
[15:54] <shnatsel> hi scott-work
[17:35] <l33o> hi
[18:51] <l33o> is the midi problem when using jack solved?  i think i remember it once worked here, now the is huge midi latency - using usb here so it is no alsa midi problem i guess
[18:54] <l33o> tried everything - givin higher priorities to uhci and ehci and disabling pulse...but no way...midi isnt really working
[19:01] <l33o> by the way i am quite shocked about what informations are going through the net ....i could readt a thousand times that the rt kernel is the best kernel for musicians...after testing 7 different rt kernels for some weeks now i must say that those wont give the same performance then the lowlatency kernel...so it is quite sad that there are so many misleading informations concerning linux in the net :(
[19:04] <astraljava> l33o: Old news are hard to get out of internet. People often borrow someone else's musings without investigations of their own.
[19:05] <l33o> hehehe
[19:05] <l33o> ;)
[19:45] <l33o> cu


[00:44] <cmaloney> Apparently B&L closed at 8pm last week
[00:45] <cmaloney> so I don't feel bad about canceling
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> morning
[14:42] <mrgoodcat> anybody ever have an issue where a branch is not showing up in a jenkins multibranch pipeline?
[14:42] <mrgoodcat> our dev branch mysteriously disappeared last night and deleting and recreating the project in jenkins didn't even bring it back