[01:12] <valorie> @sgmoore - email sent
 drive safe (re @Eickmeyer: Haven't checked. Driving home from Texas.)
[03:17] <mmikowski> eugenesan: Fractional scaling does work well with X11, I used it everyday. In fact, my experience is that it is superior in display quality compared to Wayland. However, where Wayland *is* superior is the ability to set scaling per display. X11 can't do that. Is that what you are referring to?
[03:34] <eugenesan> mmikowski Yesterday, I installed fresh build on older MacbookPro with retina display and the scaling just wouldn't work. It accepted different values but scaled only small portion of UI. Switching to Wayland fixed the issue. Today I tried the same on my XPS13 with 23.10 and it behaved similarly. It scaled only X apps like Firefox. Plasma wouldn't
[03:34] <eugenesan> scale at all.
[03:36] <mmikowski> eugenesan: Ah, so there are a few ways. One way with X11 is not to use global scaling but set the font DPI. In 5.24 and 5.27, that works quite well. Fonts and display is very crisp.
[03:37] <mmikowski> For the Kubuntu Focus, we use that method for HDPI displays using system sensing.
[03:38] <mmikowski> So if you need to use X because wayland is still causing issues, you might give that a go. I use that technique all the time without issue.
[03:39] <mmikowski> system settings > global themes > fonts then [x] Force Font DPI [ 180 ] or similar for your display . I hope that is useful.
[03:41] <eugenesan> mmikowski Thanks for the tip. Luckily except a single app not exporting global menus, I am using Wayland/X interchangeably. I wasn't planning on switching to Wayland but it works so well I have to use HTOP to see what I am running ;-)
[03:46] <mmikowski> eugenesan: This was my experience that last time I switched into it as well. It's things like screen recording and video calls and (of course) remote access where things start to show up. So if and when that happens, you'll have something to fall back on hopefully.
[03:50] <eugenesan> mmikowski Good catch. I do not usually use those but it's good to know I have a backup. Thanks.
[03:50] <mmikowski> sgmoore RikMills arraybolt3 tsimonq2 Are we full-steam ahead with the new design language? Logo, title fonts, etc?
[03:51] <mmikowski> You're welcome eugenesan! Good luck!
[03:53] <mmikowski> Changing the system fonts I think is a really bad and risky move for Breeze, but for graphics and logos and stuff, I've been using the new bug and fonts, and they look nice. Does that work for everyone?
[12:09] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 @sgmoore @Eickmeyer https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474605 -> maybe this is something related to what me and @Eickmeyer facing now ..
[16:18] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- KDE bug 474605 in neon "Icon in systray does not appear when installed as a snap" [Normal, Confirmed]
 @sgmoore https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474605 -> maybe this is something related to what me and @Eickmeyer facing now ..
[16:38] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- KDE bug 474605 in neon "Icon in systray does not appear when installed as a snap" [Normal, Confirmed]
[16:42] <Eickmeyer> @myfenris I'm fairly certain it's a combined apparmor/snapd issue. snapd is supposed to create apparmor profiles for items installed, but it's failing.
 That's the one I thought was related. Unfortunately, it is something upstream has to fix and not a distribution level issue. (re @myfenris: @sgmoore https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474605 -> maybe this is something related to what me and @Eickmeyer facing now ..)
[17:38] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- KDE bug 474605 in neon "Icon in systray does not appear when installed as a snap" [Normal, Confirmed]
 will try to find the bugs created for it (re @IrcsomeBot: <Eickmeyer> @myfenris I'm fairly certain it's a combined apparmor/snapd issue. snapd is supposed to create apparmor profiles for items installed, but it's failing.)
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/2056696
[17:58] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2056696 in snapd "All Snaps are denied the ability to use DBus for notifications and apptray indicators in KDE-based flavors" [Undecided, In Progress]
 how can i missed the bugs .. change snapd to channel edge fixed it \0/
 /me now need to wait for the 6.1 to be available in nobat
 /me now need to wait for the 6.1 to be available in nobat ☺
 /me now need to wait for the 6.1 to be available in/for nobat ☺
 but 1st need to wait for qt6 :)
 now i might need to join this discussion too as facing weird scaling issue on my portable monitor resolution (extended screen) (re @IrcsomeBot: <eugenesan> mmikowski Yesterday, I installed fresh build on older MacbookPro with retina display and the scaling just wouldn't work. It accepted different values but scaled only small portion of UI. Switching to Wayland fixed the issue. Today I tried the same on my XPS13 with 23.10 and it behav
 @eugenesan , any bug filed?
 will this work on wayland? (re @IrcsomeBot: <mmikowski> system settings > global themes > fonts then [x] Force Font DPI [ 180 ] or similar for your display . I hope that is useful.)
[18:43] <arraybolt3> hmm, branding bug: https://i.imgur.com/EsPE78W.png
[19:07] <arraybolt3> Now filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-settings/+bug/2061313
[19:07] -ubottu:#kubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2061313 in kubuntu-settings (Ubuntu) "New Kubuntu icon's transparent background looks broken in some areas" [Undecided, New]
 Is that a graphic bug? All I did was replace the icons.
[19:14] <arraybolt3> It is a bug with the graphic itself.


[23:29] <Bashing-om> philtrAlt: yep, ask, think ask some more, we are here to help AND teach.
[23:30] <mrpizzaface> hello, I was wondering if anyone can help me to install ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtale to my Toshebia Conavario basics hdd when i do the installer either way (something else) (erase disk) i get the error Cannot create that partition in SDB1 SCCS (0,0,0)
[23:30] <MonkeyDust> bnoji2  is this useful http://www.supergrubdisk.org/
[23:30] <Titanium> can ubuntu use tacacs for AAA ?
[23:30] <Sia-> hi, suspend via comandline or menu working fine, but if close lid the laptop doesn't!
[23:30] <Sia-> any idea?
[23:31] <MonkeyDust> Titanium  is that a server? if yes, better ask in #ubuntu-server
[23:31] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: nope, short answer 13.04 is no longer supported. It has reached End Of Life, choose a current version to install.
[23:31] <Titanium> MonkeyDust tacacs is for routers
[23:31] <Titanium> not servers
[23:31] <mrpizzaface> Bashing0om: ok it gives me that same error on 12.04 and every other version i try so what could be the issue
[23:32] <Beldar> bnoji2, Here is the developers thread, post the bootinfo summary there and your details. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10871917#post10871917
[23:32] <philtrAlt> great news for me, i spent a lot of time learning .NET only to find that I need to be apart of the open source world so am pretty new to linux
[23:32] <MonkeyDust> Sia-  have you looked in system settings > power ?
[23:32] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: OK, let's focus on gett ing 12.04 installed. What are you installing on and is Windows A factor ? UEFI ? secure boot and all that ?
[23:33] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: no windows, UEFI ?, Device dosnt support secure boot,
[23:33] <bnoji2> Beldar: I'm not interested in messing around with it.
[23:34] <Sia-> MonkeyDust, yes,
[23:34] <bnoji2> The only reason I'm stuck with ubuntu is because it was the only deb-based system that would work with secure boot
[23:34] <bnoji2> otherwise id be runnin wheezy
[23:34] <Beldar> bnoji2, Cool, the best help I have seen is at that thread, but do what you like.
[23:35] <bnoji2> Beldar: my end goal is only to use the ubuntu signed loader to chainload other distroes.
[23:35] <bnoji2> Thanks for the info.
[23:35] <Beldar> grub 2 yes I have 4 OS myself
[23:35] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: Well, should be straight forward. Have you verified the ,iso file (md5sum) ? What is your install medium CD, DVD or USB ?
[23:35] <philtrAlt> is there a "linux bible" that is generally considered to be "the" resource for learning?
[23:35] <MonkeyDust> !manual
[23:36] <bnoji2> philtrAlt: google
[23:37] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: USB and the installer fails when i install with a error about unable to create a partition on SDB1 (external HDD)
[23:37] <philtrAlt> thanks again
[23:38] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om:  here is the full error The ext4 file system creation in partition #2 of SCSI6 (0,0,0) (sdb) failed.
[23:38] <iam> guys
[23:38] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: OK, we will look here directly, can you boot the liveUSB to the "try ubuntu" mode and we can activate a terminal for a looksee ?
[23:38] <iam> i got 12.04 xubuntu, and i still have the same problem
[23:38] <iam> MonkeyDust
[23:39] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om:  what commands
[23:39] <FlacBean02> Via command line, what is the best way to kill those pesky process that don't want to be killed?
[23:40] <mrpizzaface> FlacBean02: sysmonitor_grb
[23:40] <chaotix> FlacBean02, i think it is xkill
[23:40] <chaotix> FlacBean02, check out man xkill
[23:41] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: pastebin -> fdisk -lu , sudo parted -l , sudo parted /dev/sdb unit s print <- .
[23:41] <chaotix> also, sigterm
[23:41] <linuxuz3r> FlacBean02, kill -9 processnumber
[23:42] <FlacBean02> thats what i tried kill-9 5458 what it will not terminate
[23:42] <linuxuz3r> is it a daemon
[23:42] <FlacBean02> but i mean
[23:42] <linuxuz3r> if it is a daemon it will run again
[23:42] <chaotix> and man kill
[23:42] <FlacBean02> its rhythymbox
[23:43] <chaotix> FlacBean02, have you tried openning system monitor?
[23:43] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: http://pastebin.com/Wv2sLxKp
[23:43] <linuxuz3r> it should be killed
[23:43] <FlacBean02> yes and its still listed
[23:43] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: looking ar your LxKp .
[23:43] <chaotix> weird
[23:44] <FlacBean02> right...
[23:44] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: english ....
[23:45] <bnoji2> well. that was a waste. im giving up on ubuntu.
[23:45] <iam> I am having problems installing xubuntu 12.04 to a partition i made http://imgur.com/a/haWX7 any idea on how to fix?
[23:45] <linuxuz3r> bnoji2, dont
[23:45] <linuxuz3r> its a good distro
[23:46] <bnoji2> linuxuz3r: It doesnt work.
[23:46] <FlacBean02> okay if I understand xkill correctly, this won't help me as rhythymbox is closed but system monitor still shows running.
[23:46] <bnoji2> I was using it because I was hoping it would be turnkey...
[23:46] <bnoji2> otherwise, I would steet clear.
[23:47] <bnoji2> It's managed to screw up EFI boot stuff.
[23:47] <linuxuz3r> oh
[23:48] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: i think i know whats wrong i let it use a logical partition instead of a primary for the / dirrectory and /home directory
[23:48] <bnoji2> Now my system is unbootable.
[23:48] <MarGul> If I run apt-get install php5 , will that be the newest php? (php 5.5 ?)
[23:48] <bnoji2> Will probably have to do a factory restore.
[23:48] <FlacBean02> of course i could restart my computer to fix it but thats no fun :)
[23:48] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: GPT disk, need another tool to look at it rather than fdisk -> sudo apt-get install gdisk , gdisk -l /dev/sdb <- .
[23:49] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: Ubuntu does not care weather the partition is primary or in an extended partition.
[23:51] <bnoji2> Thanks for trying guys, but I think I'm going to restore Win 8.
[23:51] <bnoji2> Ubuntu just isn't working.
[23:51] <linuxuz3r> ok
[23:51] <linuxuz3r> bnoji for efi?
[23:51] <bnoji2> yes
[23:51] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: http://pastebin.com/exW2Fa50
[23:51] <bnoji2> It screwed up the efi entries.
[23:51] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: looking at Fa50
[23:51] <linuxuz3r> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
[23:52] <bnoji2> I have 2 ubuntu entries and no windows entries.
[23:52] <linuxuz3r> you cant boot to windows?
[23:52] <bnoji2> not anymore.
[23:52] <FlacBean02> Yeah I don't know its weird kill -9 wont work. I can reproduce this bug all the time. It has to do with iPods and Rhythymbox reading writing to them.
[23:52] <bnoji2> I didnt want ubuntu in the first place...its just the only distro that was supposed to work with secure boot and apt/.
[23:53] <bnoji2> My end goal was only to use ubuntu for its bootloader to boot debian.
[23:53] <linuxuz3r> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2053086
[23:53] <Beldar> bnoji2, Bummer you had problems, you seem to want to move on, could you do so. ;)
[23:53] <linuxuz3r> ubuntu is a nice distro
[23:53] <bnoji2> linuxuz3r: I don't even get Win bootloader in the uefi menu anymore.
[23:54] <bnoji2> It will probably work fine as a solo install.
[23:55] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: gdisk says that ubuntu is installed ! .. OK, what happens when you change the boot priority to the second disk and boot ?
[23:55] <linuxuz3r> ok good luck have fun
[23:56] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: i get the normal blinking _ of a failing bootloader ..
[23:58] <Bashing-om> mrpizzaface: Well, there is a means to (re-)install the bootloader, I have not done it, will take me a bit to research it - if no one here can advise. (GPT is new order to me )
[23:59] <mrpizzaface> Bashing-om: buy, the ubuntu installer fails to install ... so how can it copy all the files so quick yet fail without installing the bootloader


[05:52] <lordievader> Good morning
[11:18] <Hamidreza> Hi guys, I get blkid on my server and saw:
[11:18] <Hamidreza> UUID_SUB="5ff58eb8-9879e85a-e512-5cb9019340f4" TYPE="VMFS_volume_member"
[11:18] <Hamidreza> but it should be UUID ......
[11:18] <Hamidreza> and type of my disk should be xfs
[11:18] <Hamidreza> Now I enter mkfs.xfs /dev/sdb but it doesn't do anything/
[11:18] <Hamidreza> How can I fix my problem?
[16:23] <leftyfb> Does systemd-resolved in xenial not have a stub resolver? How does it work if we can't point to it (<IP_ADDRESS>)?
[16:23] <leftyfb> I'm trying to get local caching working on Ubuntu 16.04 using systemd-resolved
[16:25] <leftyfb> I have the service enabled and running and /etc/resolv.conf linked to /run/systemd/resolved/resolv.conf and a DNS= and DOAMINS= entry in /etc/systemd/resolved.conf since that info doesn't seem to get pulled from DHCP at all
[16:25] <leftyfb> what am I missing?
[16:31] <leftyfb> I notice resolved is listening on port 5355
[16:37] <leftyfb> it's not listening on port 53
[16:51] <ddstreet> leftyfb you should probably symlink to /run/systemd/resolved/stub-resolv.conf instead
[16:52] <ddstreet> sorry /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf
[16:52] <leftyfb> ddstreet: there is no stub listener on 16.04
[16:52] <leftyfb> that file never gets created and the service is not listening on 53
[16:53] <ddstreet> you enabled systemd-resolved service?
[16:54] <ddstreet> ah yeah, in xenial the stub resolv.conf isn't created
[16:54] <ddstreet> you'll need to manually edit your resolv.conf then
[16:55] <ddstreet> it might not even work in xenial...
[16:57] <ddstreet> yeah it's missing a few things that would get it working, you could theoretically get it to work with some manual stuff but i'd recommend against it
[16:57] <ddstreet> i mean i wouldn't recommend using xenial at this point since it's going ESM this month... ;-)
[16:57] <leftyfb> well aware. We have updated to bionic and soon focal, but we still have some customers on xenial that we can't move off for some time
[16:58] <ddstreet> honestly if you need a local caching dns server on xenial, probably something else would be better, maybe dnsmasq
[17:01] <ddstreet> if you do want to manually get resovled working, you'd need to remove resolvconf, make dhclient not replace/update the resolv.conf file, change systemd-resolved to listen on :53 instead of :5355, tell systemd-resolved what the right upstream nameservers are (or get dhclient to notify it)
[17:02] <ddstreet> would not suggest it...too many things that might break


[02:00] <troy_s> who lives?
[02:23] <troy_s> not a good sign
[02:47] <bersace> troy_s: wep
[02:47] <bersace> here it's 02:47 am
[02:49] <troy_s> wep?
[02:49] <troy_s> ahh... yes i understand now.  hell its only 5:49 here
[02:49] <troy_s> you going to paris bersace?
[02:49] <bersace> i live in paris
[02:55] <troy_s> the meeting
[02:55] <troy_s> you going to be there then?
[03:01] <bersace> yep
[03:01] <bersace> tomorow, i have an oral exam
[03:01] <bersace> so i'm quite busy
[03:01] <bersace> the last for this year
[03:17] <troy_s> good.  i'll see you there then.
[03:24] <bersace> troy_s: where do you live ?
[03:24] <troy_s> Canada, vancouver
[03:27] <bersace> troy_s: and you come in Paris soon ?
[03:37] <troy_s> indeed.
[03:37] <troy_s> 19th
[03:43] <troy_s> i think i am there from the 19th to the 24th
[04:07] <bersace> troy_s: for the Ubuntu conf ?
[04:12] <troy_s> bersace:  yes.
[04:12] <bersace> nice :)
[04:17] <newz2000> So where is the proper place to propose radical new ideas for edgy?
[04:18] <bersace> Drafts
[04:18] <bersace> ArtworkTeam/Drafts
[04:18] <newz2000> ah. Got it
[04:18] <bersace> We may want to create a /Proposals category
[04:18] <newz2000> I'm overwhelmed by the amount of information on that page. ;-)
[04:18] <bersace> lol
[04:19] <bersace> newz2000: create a subpage of Drafts
[04:19] <newz2000> Do you think xgl/compiz will be ready for mainstream by mid-fall?
[04:20] <newz2000> I love the idea and ahve been waiting for 3d since looking glass came out,
[04:20] <newz2000> but I have to admit, the current state isn't ready yet
[04:21] <bersace> newz2000: compiz/aiglx (aka xorg 7.1) maybe
[04:21] <newz2000> oh, is that getting rolled into xorg?
[04:21] <bersace> that is already
[04:22] <newz2000> I wonder what opportunities that will provide for the art-team. I would love to see some sweet looking eye candy.
[04:22] <newz2000> As silly as it sounds, I think it attracts more people than it repels
[04:22] <bersace> do not forget that xglx is a Xgl server is on top of Xorg where Xegl is a real standalone Xgl server that use fb and other well designed piece of software
[04:22] <bersace> Xegl is to Xorg what Hurd is to Linux
[04:22] <bersace> so good night
[04:23] <bersace> its 4h22 am here :)
[04:23] <newz2000> ok, g'night. Thanks for the pointer.
[04:23] <bersace> ++
[04:23] <troy_s> Newz:  Don't expect much
[04:23] <newz2000> really?
[04:23] <troy_s> covering the basics
[04:23] <troy_s> is tough enough
[04:23] <troy_s> it is quite a massive endeavor
[04:23] <troy_s> the artwork in ubuntu is across a thousand packages
[04:23] <troy_s> with all sorts of dependencies on gtk
[04:23] <troy_s> metacity
[04:23] <troy_s> etc.
[04:23] <newz2000> Have you tried it out yet?
[04:24] <troy_s> i know, yes...
[04:24] <newz2000> The current stuff doesn't look quite right
[04:24] <troy_s> if you want to try something very simple
[04:24] <troy_s> try to turn your own system into the type you want
[04:24] <newz2000> and I think people will be experimenting with it seriously when dapper hits the 'shelves'
[04:24] <troy_s> and then you will see what is involved.
[04:24] <newz2000> I can tell it will be involved
[04:25] <troy_s> oh its huge
[04:25] <troy_s> and coordination in a community driven thing makes it very tough... you need to be democratic and such.
[04:25] <newz2000> Still, I can't help but think that 3d will change everything
[04:25] <newz2000> I'd love for Ubuntu to be on the cutting edge
[04:25] <troy_s> and when you start tying up already thin resources, you are looking at quite a deal.
[04:26] <troy_s> cutting edge makes for lots of bleeding.
[04:26] <newz2000> That's edgy though
[04:26] <troy_s> anyways... throw a draft in
[04:26] <troy_s> and see if it sticks...
[04:26] <newz2000> Yeah, I will. It can't hurt to open the floor for discussion.
[04:26] <newz2000> I think. :-)
[04:26] <troy_s> all you can do is document and record and then at least people can look at things
[04:26] <troy_s> yep.
[04:27] <troy_s> i would say that edgy for artwork is going to be largely about conservative motion trying to abstract a good underlying foundation structure.
[04:27] <troy_s> but that is just a guess.
[05:25] <dinda> troy_s do you have a link to the paris meeting info?
[05:38] <troy_s> uh i wish
[05:38] <troy_s> laf.
[05:39] <troy_s> The two art related guys who I know for certain are going to attend know nothing thus far.
[05:50] <dinda> I found the original announcement in one of the mailing list archives but not seen anything since
[05:50] <dinda> do you recall the dates for certain?
[05:50] <Madpilot> check the wiki?
[05:51] <dinda> wiki search turns up nothing
[05:51] <dinda> at least a search for paris. . .
[05:51] <dinda> nothing in events yet either
[05:53] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis
[05:54] <dinda> yeah - thanks!
[06:04] <dinda> thanks again, g'nite all
[06:05] <Madpilot> "wiki search turns up nothing" - sorry, but I don't think he searched at all...
[06:48] <troy_s> 19-24
[06:48] <troy_s> pretty sure about that part :)
[10:39] <msikma> Hi all
[10:42] <msikma> At work right now.
[11:53] <lapo> hi
[12:14] <msikma> Hi lapo.
[01:21] <bersace> hi
[02:16] <msikma> Hi bersace.
[02:16] <bersace> msikma: ping
[04:02] <klepas> moin


[09:30] <mup> Issue operator#345 closed: Harness could start with config initialized from config.yaml <Created by jameinel> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/345>
[09:30] <mup> PR operator#403 closed: Make Harness load default values from config.yaml <Created by johnsca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/403>
[11:05] <facubatista> ¡Muy buenos días a todos!
[11:06] <bthomas> morning facubatista
[11:10] <facubatista> hola bthomas
[11:22]  * facubatista begs for a review https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/156
[11:22] <mup> PR charmcraft#156: Text builders for simple usage, detailed help, and command help <Created by facundobatista> <https://github.com/canonical/charmcraft/pull/156>
[11:23] <facubatista> bthomas, Chipaca ^
[11:59] <bthomas> done
[12:37] <mup> PR operator#375 closed: first pass at getting travis to do a windows run <Created by chipaca> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/375>
[12:37] <mup> PR operator#408 opened: These changes make it so that the test suite passes on Windows <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/408>
[12:43] <Chipaca> Progress: Downloading python3 3.8.5... 2PProgrProgress:Progress: DowProgress: DownloaProgress: DownloadingProgress: Downloading pytProgressProgress: DoProgress: DownloProgress: DownloadinProgress: Downloading pyProgress: Downloading pythonProgress: DowProgress: Downloading python3 3.8.5... 54PrProgreProgress: Downloading python 3.8.5... 100%
[12:43]  * Chipaca wonders who thought that was a'ight
[14:01] <Chipaca> #408 is green 🙂
[14:01] <mup> PR #408: These changes make it so that the test suite passes on Windows <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/408>
[14:02] <jam> o/
[14:22] <facubatista> yes!
[16:05] <crodriguez> hello hello. I get into a weird situation rn. So, upon deployment of a charm, both the start hook and the config-changed hook are triggered automatically. If my start hooks fails upon something, I set a blocked status. However, the config-changed hook runs right after and removes that blocked status, so the error is being hidden
[16:06] <crodriguez> So, I see a few options. 1) is it possible to *not* run the config-changed hook at the same time as the start hook? I do not see any benefits
[16:07] <crodriguez> 2) can we get the option of setting the status to error ? maybe that would actually block the other hooks from overwritting the status?
[16:07] <crodriguez> @facubatista, I'd like to get your input on this ^
[16:51] <facubatista> crodriguez, reading
[16:53] <facubatista> this is more "juju behaviour", so let's see what jam says about it, but:
[16:53] <narindergupta>   File "/var/lib/juju/agents/unit-cassandra-0/charm/venv/ops/model.py", line 979, in _run
[16:53] <narindergupta>     raise ModelError(e.stderr)
[16:53] <narindergupta> ops.model.ModelError: b'ERROR json: unknown field "lifecycle"\n'
[16:53] <facubatista> 1) it surprises me that config-changed is triggered after start ended with error
[16:53] <narindergupta> @facubatista have you seen frecently?
[16:53] <facubatista> 2) ah, mmm
[16:54] <facubatista> crodriguez, when you say that the "start hook fails on something", is it actually making the call crash, or you just set up to blocked, and then end the hook "correctly"?
[17:00] <facubatista> narindergupta, nop, do you have more context?
[17:03] <narindergupta> @facubatista i just deployed my old cassandra charm and having this issue.
[17:03] <narindergupta> facubatista: i will try to build the charm again and test and if that does not solve then have to look i know this charm was working some time back and wanted to implemented few comments
[17:07] <narindergupta> facubatista: still same error so looks like ops.model.ModelError: b'ERROR json: unknown field "lifecycle"\n'
[17:09] <facubatista> narindergupta, do you have a bigger traceback? where are you seeing this?
[17:09] <narindergupta> facubatista: never mind looks in my template i am adding lifecycle
[17:09] <narindergupta> which is not supported so far.
[17:10] <facubatista> so the "i just deployed my old cassandra" is "i just added an invalid key to metadata.yaml and tried the deploy"? :)
[17:12] <narindergupta> facubatista: somehow this was there in charm template as well which is weired and when i tested last it was not an issue may be while uploading i might have opush new charm as i was experimenting lifecycle feature
[17:12] <narindergupta> in other sense cassandra charm on charmstore is broken
[17:35] <mup> Issue operator#409 opened: Setting model.app.status causes the deployment to hang <Created by camille-rodriguez> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/409>
[17:36] <jam> facubatista, crodriguez from her comments on mattermost, it is just setting Blocked in 'start' but config-changed is apparently causing it to set Active.
[17:36] <jam> so both (a) start isn't raising an exception/failing non-zero exit code and (b) something in config-changed isn't evaluating the same logic to realize it needs more.
[17:39] <facubatista> jam, but it's ok to "start" to "finish ok", right? Even if it detects an underlying problem/issue, and sets the status to Blocked
[17:39] <crodriguez> facubatista, well there's no way for me to easily set an error status, so until now I was using blocked status
[17:39] <crodriguez> I'll try the sys.exit strategy and see how that goes. I also opened bug#409
[17:40] <crodriguez> for something else I found (app.status doesnt work..)
[17:55] <jam> you can exit(1) or raise Exception to go into error status
[17:56] <jam> juju doesn't let you status-set error
[18:21] <facubatista> jam, crodriguez, my question is what it's expected to happen at "juju level"... Blocked means that manual intervention is needed... so the method should raise an exception instead of finishing correctly?
[18:21] <facubatista> is it always that way?
[18:22] <jam> facubatista, no. you may be blocked because you need a relation to a database. That needs a human, but the charm should still be able to respond to relation-created
[18:22] <facubatista> ah, good
[18:23] <facubatista> so, in the case of crodriguez she *should* end it in error because it makes no sense to keep receiving events, right?
[18:23] <jam> from what she's saying, yes.
[18:26] <facubatista> good, thanks
[18:50] <facubatista> jam, the "params" part in actions.yaml is used for something? I have a charm with an action without that section, and I was able to call the action using the parameter, and it reached the charm's method just fine
[18:51] <jam> facubatista, there is a field for "allow additional parameters" which you can set to False IIRC, let me check
[18:51] <jam> facubatista, additionalProperties: False
[18:51] <jam> sorry, 'false'
[18:51] <jam> lowercase
[18:51] <facubatista> ah, thanks!
[18:52] <jam> facubatista, with additionalProperties: false, then Juju won't let you supply things that aren't in the params.
[18:56] <facubatista> jam, so "params" is more about validations before the sent information actually reaches the charm, right?
[18:56] <facubatista> e.g.: ERROR validation failed: (root).foo : must be of type string, given 123
[18:57] <jam> facubatista, I believe so, yes
[18:57] <facubatista> it can get weird, though:
[18:57] <facubatista> $ juju run-action bdv/1 refresh foo='123' --wait
[18:57] <facubatista> {}
[18:57] <facubatista> ERROR validation failed: (root).foo : must be of type string, given 123
[18:59] <jam> facubatista, I would guess the CLI is parsed as YAML, so you would need appropriate quoting to pass a 'looks-like-integer' as a string
[18:59] <jam> foo='"123"' might work
[18:59] <facubatista> it did
[18:59] <facubatista> it's a nice thing to mention
[19:57] <crodriguez> jam, facubatista I have another question and I'm not sure if it's more a juju thing or an operator thing. The K8s API commands that I execute in my charm are launched inside the app controller pod. Everything works well when RBAC is not enabled, but if RBAC is enabled, then the operator pod does not have the required permissions to use the API. I don't understand why in this context, the controller pod is able
[19:57] <crodriguez> to set the pod_spec, but not to use the API
[19:57] <jam> crodriguez, the application pod asks Juju to set the pod spec, not the K8s api directly
[19:59] <crodriguez> mhm ok. So what are my options then ? I have to give extra permissions to the app operator, but i do not think that juju allows that?
[19:59] <crodriguez> the k8s guys have done a workaround in mutlus where they spin up another container, which they give enough permissions to run kubectl/api
[20:00] <crodriguez> but that's an ugly solution :(
[20:06] <crodriguez> so idk jam what you think about that. I'd like to avoid the extra container just to run the api..
[20:09] <jam> crodriguez, it would be good to understand what actual RBAC you need
[20:16] <jam> I agree that spinning up another container is not the right way to do it.
[20:20] <crodriguez> jam: I need to create pod security policies, create a namespaced role, and bind this role. So I need rbac to be allowed to do this in the controller pod
[20:21] <crodriguez> and I'm using the k8s api for this because of LP:1886694 and LP:1896076
[20:26] <jam> bug #1886694
[20:26] <jam> bug #1896076
[20:26] <jam> I guess mup doesn't do that here?
[20:27] <jam> crodriguez, PodSecurityPolicy is essentially allowing you to root the K8s hosts, it is a pretty dangerous thing to give arbitrarily
[20:29] <crodriguez> jam it's not arbitrarily, it's the way upstream MetalLB is designed.
[20:31] <jam> how to put it a different way
[20:31] <jam> I understand the desire for the functionality. But it isn't appropriate for every charm to have root on the entire K8s cluster
[20:31] <jam> MetalLB is a bit special in that it very much has to control the host to provide the functionality
[20:32] <jam> but it is, essentially, getting elevated privileges over everything else running in the cluster.
[20:32] <jam> eg, kernel level attacks on every K8s worker node
[20:34] <jam> now, we can probably model that with something akin to "juju trust" that would allow for a specific charm to operate with elevated privileges
[20:36] <jam> In the short term, it feels very appropriate to explicitly ask for a Cluster role to be done by someone outside of the charm, before the charm can operate
[20:38] <crodriguez> I don't understand how having the ability to create pod security policies means that it would give you root to the entire cluster. Being a juju admin already assumes that you have access to pretty much everything anyway, doesn't it? Pod security policies enables more security , it can let you prevent users from running privileged containers, etc.
[20:39] <jam> PodSecurityPolicy defines things like "Can I load a Kernel driver for this pod"
[20:39] <jam> On AWS we don't give the AWS credentials to every charm, or even every machine agent
[20:48] <crodriguez> jam: I've replied to you in MM/charmcraft, since this is becoming more of an internal discussion
[21:05] <mup> Issue operator#410 opened: Framework does not log re-emission of events <Created by camille-rodriguez> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/410>
[21:10]  * facubatista eods and eows


[01:11] <dannf> jbicha: juliank: fyi, that kdump-tools autopkgtest failure on arm64 should be fixed now. i think it was only passing before because it was being skipped due to limited memory
[06:34] <adrien> UnivrslSuprBox: in noble it will be fixed soon for armhf
[06:35] <adrien> for i386 it won't but I think it would be more appropriate to remove it from there
[06:35] <adrien> for that we need to know what it is used for: do you know?
[06:35] <adrien> also, if it's only tests, we can hint these so they're not affecting migrations
[06:35] <adrien> (non-build-time tests that is)
[08:44] <bastif> Could someone merge php-codeigniter-framework from Debian to Ubuntu? It includes the patches suggested by an Ubuntu developer. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-codeigniter-framework/+bug/2054713
[08:48] <bastif> (fix ftbfs with python3.12 & php8.3)
[08:56] <LocutusOfBorg> sgmoore, hello, ksanecore needs an update :)
[08:56] <LocutusOfBorg> libkf5sane needs it :D
[09:03] <ginggs> bastif: re php-codeigniter-framework, do you mean merge or sync?
[09:05] <bastif> what's the difference? I mean take the version of Debian and put it into Ubuntu?
[09:06] <bastif> the package is listed in merge-o-matic, so I guess autosync won't work?
[09:10] <LocutusOfBorg> bastif, ginggs syncd
[09:15] <ginggs> bastif: merge would be if there were ubuntu changes to be kept, sync means manual sync, like LocutusOfBorg just did
[09:16] <bastif> ok, sync then.
[09:26] <sgmoore> LocutusOfBorg: looking into it, thank you
[09:31] <sgmoore> LocutusOfBorg: Seems I do not have upload rights to some of the newer packages. Will have to wait for someone with fancier upload rights to upload. SOmething I intend to fix once things settle down.
[09:42] <LocutusOfBorg> sgmoore, if you need sponsoring, ping
[09:43] <sgmoore> LocutusOfBorg: yeah, I think everyone is asleep
[09:47] <sgmoore> LocutusOfBorg: packaging is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/ksanecore/+ref/kubuntu_noble_archive
[09:49] <LocutusOfBorg> uscan to download, right?
[09:49] <LocutusOfBorg> sponsored
[09:49] <LocutusOfBorg> Uploading ksanecore_23.08.5-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[09:50] <bluca> is there a specific team that looks after dpkg? I see many signatures in the changelog
[09:50] <bluca> it would be really great if lp:2054741 could get fixed in noble - MR with fix is attached to the bug
[09:50] -ubottu:#ubuntu-devel- Launchpad bug 2054741 in dpkg (Ubuntu Noble) "dpkg-buildpackage ignores DEB_BUILD_PROFILES" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2054741
[09:51] <LocutusOfBorg> bluca, is this a bug in Debian?
[09:51] <bluca> no, it's a bug in the ubuntu delta
[09:51] <LocutusOfBorg> ack sponsoring
[09:52] <bluca> more precisely side effect of this bit of delta in dpkg-buildpackage.pl:
[09:52] <bluca> -set_build_profiles(@build_profiles) if @build_profiles;
[09:52] <bluca> +set_build_profiles(@build_profiles);
[09:52] <bluca> thanks!
[09:53] <LocutusOfBorg> and instead, can't we drop that part of delta?
[09:54] <bluca> it's the patch that always appends the noudeb profile to every build, unless opted-out
[09:55] <bluca> it's necessary for that - I don't know whether that functionality is still needed or not
[09:57] <bluca> the fix in the MR ensures that still works as before
[10:05] <LocutusOfBorg> ok thanks
[10:06] <LocutusOfBorg> however the test can be upstreamed in Debian?
[10:11] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/715739490/buildlog_ubuntu-noble-amd64.dpkg_1.22.4ubuntu4_BUILDING.txt.gz
[10:11] <LocutusOfBorg> bluca, ^^
[10:21] <bluca> the test might, yes
[10:21] <sgmoore> LocutusOfBorg: thanks!
[10:22] <bluca> Parse errors: Bad plan.  You planned 11 tests but ran 10.
[10:22] <bluca> the MR contains this bit:
[10:22] <bluca> -use Test::More tests => 10;
[10:22] <bluca> +use Test::More tests => 11;
[10:23] <bluca> for scripts/t/Dpkg_BuildProfiles.t - did that get lost by any chance?
[10:23] <bluca> oh wait it's the opposite
[10:28] <bluca> aaagh I screwed up the cherry pick
[10:32] <bluca> I refreshed the branch before as it was behind ubuntu/devel, except I used the wrong one (based on jammy), my bad
[10:36] <bluca> fix: https://code.launchpad.net/~bluca/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+git/dpkg/+merge/461112
[10:37] <bluca> corrected full patch if preferred: https://code.launchpad.net/~bluca/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+git/dpkg/+merge/461113
[10:40] <dviererbe> Can someone sponsor these merge proposals:
[10:40] <dviererbe> https://code.launchpad.net/~dviererbe/ubuntu/+source/unzip/+git/unzip/+merge/444896
[10:40] <dviererbe> https://code.launchpad.net/~dviererbe/ubuntu/+source/inetutils/+git/inetutils/+merge/461107
[10:46] <bluca> LocutusOfBorg: did a new test run in a new, clean noble chroot with the fix from above, build passes now - sorry for the snafu
[10:59] <LocutusOfBorg> good catch bluca
[10:59] <LocutusOfBorg> I also didn't spot it
[11:23] <LocutusOfBorg> dviererbe, ack
[11:23] <dviererbe> LocutusOfBorg: thanks!
[11:29] <adrien> bryyce: I just had a case of several builds in a PPA because I pushed two consecutive versions fairly quickly so it's a case that is difficult to avoid even when paying attention (I'm not using my output-rewriting script ATM: it seems it has a few corner cases and it was only meant as a demo/PoC)
[11:38] <LocutusOfBorg> sgmoore, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/715743773/buildlog_ubuntu-noble-riscv64.kimap_23.08.5-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[11:38] <LocutusOfBorg> looks like test is not built on riscv64
[11:38] <LocutusOfBorg> dh_install: warning: Cannot find (any matches for) "usr/lib/*/libkimaptest.a" (tried in ., debian/tmp)
[11:38] <LocutusOfBorg> qt5tests is not there...
[11:44] <sgmoore> Correct, I have had to fix quite a few. I will fix it shortly. Thanks
[13:03] <ravikant_> Hello o/, where is the code for https://launchpad.net/pkg-website (http://packages.ubuntu.com/)?
[14:02] <sudip> ravikant_: https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/packages/-/tree/ubuntu-master
[14:20] <sudip> can anyone please retrigger the build of vtun in jammy-proposed for riscv64.
[14:46] <ravikant_> sudip: thanks!
[14:52] <bluca> LocutusOfBorg: thanks for the noble upload - any chance we can also do a backport to jammy? https://code.launchpad.net/~bluca/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+git/dpkg/+merge/461136
[14:54] <LocutusOfBorg> ack done
[14:54] <LocutusOfBorg> bluca, also mantic is on your radar?
[14:56] <Trevinho> vorlon: hey, FYI in the debian side of power profiles daemon I marked it as conflicting with tlp (that one is too powerful not to be) again, so if you want patch it on ubuntu side feel free but imho it would be just easier to add a compatibility layer on the dbus side to just be able to manage it from gnome side.
[14:57] <Trevinho> vorlon: Also... One question, isn't there any dh fancy sequence for pam-auth-update, right?
[14:57] <LocutusOfBorg> U0m doing it
[14:59] <bluca> LocutusOfBorg: thanks - I don't usually look at short term releases as I just don't use them - if really necessary for process reasons I can
[14:59] <LocutusOfBorg> I uploaded also mantic
[14:59] <LocutusOfBorg> meh
[14:59] <LocutusOfBorg> not sure worth the effort
[15:00] <LocutusOfBorg> I think non lts are just a waste of time for SRUs
[15:00] <bluca> I agree - thanks for the help
[15:29] <bluca> juliank: it seems apport autopkgtest is failing to due bash moving to /usr/bin<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[15:30] <bluca> just noticed when looking at some unrelated package
[15:30] <UnivrslSuprBox> adrien: It is build-time tests (dh_auto_test). faketime is a build-depend of some things in i386.
[15:34] <adrien> UnivrslSuprBox: do you know what does?
[15:41] <juliank> bluca: heh this only happened after bash migrated of course
[15:43] <juliank> bdrung: apport needs adjustment for bash move to /usr/bin/bash ^^
[16:23] <UnivrslSuprBox> adrien: looks like it's a depends of epoptes, recommends of reprotest, and suggests of devscripts. I actually don't see any build-depends on i386, but that might be because 'apt rdepends' doesn't check that...
[16:34] <UnivrslSuprBox> `reverse-depends -a i386 -b faketime` reveals quite a few things
[16:36] <adrien> I was looking at that too and there are many more than I had hoped
[16:36] <adrien> altos devscripts doxygen festival gem2deb genometools jags katarakt mcabber moon-buggy osslsigncode postsrsd pyscanfcs rsyslog sssd xapian-omega
[16:37] <adrien> the three or four I've looked at are not easy to make optional
[16:37] <adrien> maybe the only solution is to change coreutils to use 32-bit time_t on i386
[16:38] <adrien> or skip the test in faketime's build but I expect we'd have issues down the road
[16:39] <adrien> vorlon: does it sound good to you that i386 coreutils use a 32-bit time_t again? this should fix faketime's build and would probably be more compatible with the rest of the packages
[16:41] <UnivrslSuprBox> I mean, we can override dh_auto_test to skip it on i386, it's just armhf that's a problem then.
[16:41] <UnivrslSuprBox> It's a question of how long we need to wait for armhf to, uh, work
[16:41] <adrien> armhf will be fixed soon when the 64-bit time_t transition happens; or at least I don't think it's wise to spend time on it right now
[16:42] <adrien> armhf is a matter of days hopefully
[16:43] <adrien> but I don't think skipping the test is necessarily a good idea as you would end up with an ecosystem of packages where a single package has a different notion of time_t
[16:43] <UnivrslSuprBox> But Steve's made it pretty clear that we shouldn't care about i386 basically at all
[16:44] <adrien> if some package then does "faketime year-3000 date" and "faketime year-3000 my-own-implementation-of-date", you'd get different results (sure, the second one is a bug but fixing the y2038 on i386 isn't a goal anyway)
[16:45] <adrien> IIRC there's a configure switch to change time_t for coreutils so it's not a lot of work (I can probably look at that next week)
[16:45] <adrien> well, maybe there isn't, but we can probably do something
[17:22] <juliank> base-files and glibc should land next britney run, everyone brace yourselves
[17:46] <vorlon> adrien: whenever someone asks me a question like this, my first response is to check why we're messing around with a package like faketime at all and if we can throw it away on i386.  I care about i386 not *blocking* faketime but otherwise I don't care whether faketime itself is usable on this arch
[17:46] <vorlon> I also don't care what size time_t coreutils uses on i386
[17:46] <vorlon> so: whichever solution is less work?
[17:47] <vorlon> faketime                              | faketime                           | ocl-icd (Build-Depend)                     | Ubuntu Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>    |           11034 |              41
[17:47] <vorlon> yah super invested in this (not)
[17:48] <vorlon> nobody needs an i386 version of opencl :P
[17:49] <vorlon> adrien: how about patching libwine instead to not want ocl
[17:55] <adrien> vorlon: I'm fine doing that; it looks like I didn't generate the list of packages well; can you share the commands you used?
[17:55] <adrien> (is that really the only thing that requires it?)
[17:55] <vorlon> adrien: I was looking at https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/germinate-output/i386.noble/all
[17:55] <vorlon> it's not guaranteed that this is the only thing that requires it, but there's a reasonable chance this is so
[17:56] <vorlon> germinate unfortunately does not produce full graphs, it truncates on first match
[17:56] <vorlon> juliank: ^ ;)
[17:56] <adrien> good to know
[17:56] <adrien> I don't have time right now; I'll be back a bit later
[18:39] <bluca> apport autopkgtest failing due to bash moving is affecting dpkg's migration in noble, could that be hinted through please?
[18:43] <juliank> Please force-badtest apport/2.28.0-0ubuntu1
[18:44] <juliank> Or force-skiptest dpkg/1.22.4ubuntu5
[18:44] <juliank> If we force-badtest apport we need to make sure to remove it before the next apport upload?
[18:46] <juliank> vorlon: wanna force-skiptest dpkg/1.22.4ubuntu5 ? I think we'll fix apport next week but I did not hear from bdrung but he wanted to cut a new release and I don't really want to get in the way before
[18:46] <juliank> Though I guess I could, it's non-native at least
[18:47] <juliank> But anyway, force-skiptest dpkg for now is a good idea
[18:49] <juliank> OK I won't touch the apport code today, it tests that /bin/bash is in the bash package in a bunch of places and it's very annoying, if I start that it turns into a very long day again and I don't have bread for breakfast if I don't make dough now
[20:22] <adrien> I made at least a couple mistakes earlier: I reverse-depends'ed and rmadison'd but didn't restrict that to noble; I also skipped packages which contain were reported for only source and not i386, which is the case for ocl-icd (although I'm not sure of what that entails)
[20:23] <adrien> I'll have another look on monday I think, there's a bit to unwrap
[20:24] <adrien> that being said, sssd seems to require faketime and is in main (I'm not sure why it's needed on i386 however)
[20:45] <tsimonq2> juliank, sudip: Hi, thanks for lxqt-archiver :) just had some confusion on our (Lubuntu's) end initially.
[20:45] <tsimonq2> We're trying to steer away from "ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!11 don't touch our packages" - there's better approaches than that. :)
[20:45] <tsimonq2> Anyway, just a long way of saying "thanks," that's all :)
[20:55] <sudip> tsimonq2: which is I pinged you that bug when I added ubuntu-sponsors to it, I knew you and Lubuntu will be the best person to look at that one
[20:57] <sudip> but that one was quite an interesting bug, if you see the upstream interaction for that  :)
[21:40] <tsimonq2> sudip: ahhhhh you pinged me, it's been *so* busy I apologize


[00:04] <redblade> hi
[00:04] <redblade> i just switched from linuxmint xfce to xubuntu
[00:05] <redblade> i'm having a weird problem that i can't find a straight answer for
[00:05] <bazhang> state the acutal issue please
[00:05] <redblade> every time i mount an external jump drive or external hard drive using thunar
[00:05] <redblade> it mounts root:root 777
[00:05] <redblade> this makes things very annoying, i have to remount with ntfs-3g options in my home directory
[00:06] <redblade> i never had this problem under mint
[00:06] <bazhang> what command are you using exactly
[00:06] <redblade> right clicking the drive in thunar, mount
[00:06] <bazhang> ntfs is not a linux file system
[00:06] <redblade> it shows up in /media/username/label with root:root and 777 all files & folders
[00:06] <redblade> i know
[00:06] <redblade> how do i force the username and fmask/dmask with thunar?
[00:07] <bazhang> so the permissions are not even close to similar
[00:07] <redblade> it's kind of annoying to remount it ntfs-3g in my home folder at the command line
[00:07] <redblade> if i want to do any large amount of copying
[00:08] <redblade> i dont know what mint's thunar did, but i remmeber it wasnt 777
[00:09] <knome> i would look into fstab
[00:10] <redblade> knome: for every single usb drive i own?
[00:11] <knome> well, don't...
[00:12] <redblade> does it do that for you? try it
[00:12] <redblade> ntfs usb drive, mount through thunar
[00:12] <knome> i don't use ntfs usb drives
[00:14] <redblade> you format them to ext4 after you buy them?
[00:15] <mrkramps> redblade, i do not see a problem
[00:15] <redblade> pointless, it shoudl go between oses
[00:15] <knome> ext2 actually, and i only have one, which has specific options in fstab.
[00:15] <redblade> what are the permissions you get, and is it root:root?
[00:15] <redblade> mrkramps:
[00:15] <bazhang> for ntfs?
[00:16] <redblade> yes
[00:16] <bazhang> never
[00:16] <redblade> mrkramps just tried it i want to see what happened there
[00:16] <bazhang> and you are imaginging that ntfs has some linux permissions, it doesnt
[00:17] <Snackerr> Hello,  is it safe to backup a NTFS HDD to a EXT4?  what do you lose?  (someone said mp3 tags?  photo metadata?)
[00:17] <redblade> oh this should be confusing, trying to keep up with both conversations lol
[00:18] <redblade> Snackerr: definitely not mp3 tags, i doubt photo metadata
[00:19] <Snackerr> redblade, so what do you lose?
[00:19] <knome> why would you lose anything?
[00:19] <knome> ntfs is the lesser filesystem
[00:19] <knome> or, the one with less features to be exact
[00:20] <redblade> would there be differences in characters and length of file names?
[00:20] <redblade> easily solved though by zipping or tarball
[00:20] <knome> i'd imagine the problems might start when restoring
[00:20] <mrkramps> redblade, your ubuntu version
[00:20] <Snackerr> knome, someone told me that you lose 'metadata'  e.g.  if the folder is "hidden"
[00:20] <redblade> if it's too large a file tar woudl gz
[00:20] <redblade> without gz
[00:20] <redblade> mrkramps: the xubuntu that just came out, 16.04.1
[00:23] <mrkramps> redblade, seems like this should not happen, although the drive has full user access with 777
[00:24] <redblade> i just tried a fat32 one i have and it isn't 777
[00:25] <redblade> and not root
[00:26] <redblade> so you have regularuser:regulargroup with 777 for all files and folders?
[00:28] <redblade> for ntfs
[00:28] <mrkramps> redblade, i still use 14.04, but it seems more like user:user 700
[00:28] <bazhang> is he using sudo with thunar
[00:29] <bazhang> there's no credible reason to use ntfs-3g in this day and age
[00:29] <redblade> i doubt it, i'm logged in as a normal user
[00:30] <redblade> and clicknig thunar on the desktop
[00:30] <redblade> and clicking on the drive and it mounts
[00:30] <mrkramps> redblade, can you check syslog for the cmdline options used to mount the drive
[00:30] <mrkramps> ?
[00:30] <mrkramps>  grep "Cmdline options:" /var/log/syslog
[00:31] <mrkramps> probably better to get some more context:$ grep -C 3 "Cmdline options:" /var/log/syslog
[00:32] <redblade> actually it's not root:root i was mistaken
[00:32] <redblade> but it is 777
[00:33] <redblade> normaluser:normalgroup
[00:33] <redblade> ntfs-3g[27645]: Cmdline options: rw,nodev,nosuid,uid=1000,gid=1000,uhelper=udisks2
[00:33] <redblade> ()that is one of the drives)
[00:36] <redblade> yep both disks when using thunar have that string. it isn't root:root, sorry about that
[00:37] <redblade> both disks i was trying
[00:37] <mrkramps> sry, i only have one ntfs formatted drive vor testing and as this is a could storage backup of a linux server the permissions might have been set before
[00:37] <redblade> if i only knew how to change thunar's "cmdline" and add a dmask= and an fmask=
[00:38] <mrkramps> redblade, this is not a thunar issue
[00:39] <redblade> is thunar just a frontend to something else?
[00:40] <bazhang> thunar the window manager?
[00:40] <redblade> thunar's the file manager
[00:40] <knome> thunar is the file manager.
[00:40] <bazhang> redblade, it's clearly not a thunar issue here
[00:41] <mrkramps> i guess it is udisk2?
[00:42] <redblade> not familiar with udisks2
[00:42] <bazhang> odds on favorite its a corrupt ntfs drive
[00:42] <redblade> it's not corrupt i use them all the time
[00:42] <redblade> it just shouldnt automatically be 777
[00:43] <bazhang> 777 being linuc permissions
[00:43] <redblade> i want to change the defaults for all ntfs drives to be dmask=022 and fmask=133 whenever i use thunar
[00:46] <redblade> is there any way to do that? or am i forced to use 777 unless i mount it at the cli?
[00:46] <redblade> 777 i mean chmod sorry
[00:47] <redblade> umask 000
[00:48] <mrkramps> udev rules
[00:51] <redblade> i think that's what i'm looking for mrkramps. i guess mint has its own udev rules built in
[00:52] <mrkramps> redblade, just compare the configuration mint uses then
[00:53] <redblade> lol i dont have mint anymore it's been replaced with xubuntu
[00:54] <redblade> i just found this file, seems to be what i'm looking for: https://github.com/HalisCz/udev-automount/blob/master/10-flash-mounts.rules
[00:58] <mrkramps> redblade, you can access all packages from the min repository online …
[00:58] <mrkramps> http://packages.linuxmint.com/
[01:12] <redblade> that only lists package names, and this is proving truly difficult as everyone has their own scripts, plus stuff is outdated as things have progressed
[01:21] <redblade> why do i have to learn a new scripting language just to change the default mount options?
[01:22] <redblade> i find tons of conflicting stuff, some outdated and pre-systemd, etc
[01:22] <redblade> sucks
[01:22] <redblade> maybe i should try in ##linux, if there's a package i dont know about
[01:29] <mrkramps> redblade, i am not sure but i guess udisk2 will call for mount.ntfs
[01:30] <mrkramps> which seems to be a link to ntfs-3g only
[01:38] <redblade> all the rules people come up with are for automounting. i dont want to automount, i want to manually mount with thunar
[01:39] <redblade> is it that perhaps mint and slackware used an older or patched version of thunar to mount with sane permissions for ntfs jump drives?
[01:43] <redblade> i found a lot of files in /lib/udev/rules.d
[01:48] <redblade> cant find anything relating to mounting in any of them
[01:48] <redblade> :(
[01:48] <redblade> it's a good thing i dont copy large amounts of large files from usb disks too often
[01:48] <mrkramps>  /lib/udev/rules.d/80-udisks2.rules
[01:49] <redblade> and usually it's tarballed or 7zipped when i do
[01:49] <redblade> the only reference to ntfs i found there was for ignoring a recovery partition
[01:53] <redblade> i gotta have dinner it's late
[01:59] <redblade> hey does xubuntu have an automatic updater like mint has?
[01:59] <knob> Yes redblade
[02:00] <knob> Hello everyone.  I have two n00b questions.  I downloaded Android Studio... unzipped the file, and now I have the whole directory structure.  If in the command line I go to /android-studio/bin/ and run ./studio.sh   , it brings up Android Studio GUI.
[02:00] <redblade> what's the package called
[02:01] <knob> My two questions: Where should I move this bin?   To   /usr/local/bin   and drop it in there?            And then, how could I create a shortcut so I can access Android Studio GUI   via Alt+F2
[02:01] <knob> redblade, Software Updater
[02:01] <knob> That's what I run when I hit Alt+F2
[02:02] <redblade> ok. i'm chatting on windows and my linux pc is in another room so i'm kind of going back and forth
[02:02] <redblade> but i gotta have dinner now
[02:02] <knob> redblade, nice
[02:02] <knob> no problem... this channel is a little bit slow because of the time, yet the people in here are awesome.  =)
[02:04] <Unit193> knob: Create a 'desktop' file for the launcher, either putting it in ~/.local/share/applications/ or global one.  Also, you can add it to your userpath if you don't want to use /usr/local/
[02:05] <knob> Unit193, thanks... I have never dropped a new "binary" anywhere, so I have no idea what "best practice" is.
[02:05] <knob> Hmm.... ~/.local/share/application sounds good
[02:10] <knob> Unit193, I dropped the /bin  into  ~/.local/share/applications/bin     ... and I also created the Desktop file.   Any idea how I can make the "Android Studio" desktop shortcut appear when I use Alt+F2 (Application Finder) ?
[02:12] <Unit193> knob: ~/.local/bin/ for the binary.  And, if you entirely terminate xfce4-appfinder and launch it again, *should* find it.
[02:12] <knob> Ahhh super!  Ok... trying that out
[02:16] <knob> Yeah!! Now we're cooking!!  w00t w00t!! Thanks Unit! :)
[02:16] <knob> Unit193,
[02:16] <Unit193> Sure thing, doc.
[06:10] <vahvero> i have weird problem. I try to connect with samba to server where is libreoffice odt file and i can't open it. error is general I/O-error. So gvfs has maybe issues. With Linux Mint there isn't problem. Hmm.
[06:19] <vahvero> even if i make new file and move it to server. i can't open it with libreoffice.  Normal text file i can open with mousepad and do editing.
[07:22] <Matboe> Hi all!  Anyone able to help me with a xubuntu wifi issue?
[09:03] <vahvero> Problem solved! i did install libreoffice-gnome package and gvfs connection to samba server started to work!! :D NICE!!
[11:13] <sine0> hello folks. I really love xubuntu it makes my linux desktop life worth living as it is how a desktop should look and behave in my opinion, however I have a couple of problems that are starting to plague my workflow and wondered if anyone would be able to help or offer a solution
[11:15] <sine0> first of all when i hit print screen a window comes up with suggestions, save to file or copy to buffer for paste
[11:16] <sine0> it will save to file but I cannot copy it to the paste buffer as when i do no application accepts the paste, it says no metadata or no data. this is not just limited to gimp
[14:35] <xubuntu18w> hello
[14:35] <xubuntu18w> anyone?
[14:35] <xubuntu18w> i need help
[14:36] <genii> xubuntu18w: Best to just describe your problem to the channel, and then see if someone may offer a solution
[14:37] <xubuntu18w> Okay, i installed last version of xubuntu. but i have resolution problem.
[14:38] <xubuntu18w> I cant make higher resolution then 1024*768
[14:38] <xubuntu18w> than*
[14:39] <xubuntu18w> ?
[14:41] <xubuntu18w> Anyone
[14:41] <xubuntu18w> ?
[14:41] <genii> xubuntu18w: You may want to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution#Adding_undetected_resolutions
[14:41] <xubuntu18w> Thank you. I will check , if it doesnt work, i will be back
[14:43]  * genii makes more coffee
[14:53] <xubuntu18w> It didn't work... Any advices ?
[15:05] <genii> xubuntu18w: What kind of connector is on the graphics card, what kind of connector is it attached to at the monitor, and what kind of cord connects them? Often if different kind, the monitor's EDID info cannot be read
[15:19] <beratarvass> I cant make higher resolution than 1024x768. What is the problem ?
[15:23] <genii> As I asked earlier:
[15:23] <genii> xubuntu18w: What kind of connector is on the graphics card, what kind of connector is it attached to at the monitor, and what kind of cord connects them? Often if different kind, the monitor's EDID info cannot be read
[16:12]  * genii makes more coffee
[18:02] <xubuntu69w> hello, i need help. i have dual boot xubuntu/win10 and after once of update/upgrade xubuntu 16.04 has stopped working. Now booting directly to win10 :(
[18:08] <knob> xubuntu69w, was the last upgrade done by Windows10?
[18:08] <knob> Or Xubuntu?
[18:09] <xubuntu69w> after upgrade in xubuntu
[18:12] <knob> hmm
[18:15] <xubuntu62w> i try boot-repair but it didnt help
[18:20] <doc|work> hey. I'm setting up 4x1080p screens using displayport daisy chaining. It's recognising that there are 4 screens and laying them out correctly, but showing them as a single 1080p screen with no resolution options higher than that. Anyone got any suggestions on how to get them recognised as a single 4k device?
[20:58] <RWF> hi
[20:59] <knome> hello
[21:00] <RWF> mighty quiet in here
[21:00] <knome> with a sample size of 2 minutes
[21:00] <RWF> true
[21:01] <knome> (and this is a support channel, general chatter at #xubuntu-offtopic if you are looking for something like that)
[21:01] <RWF> ever chat on  www.Buzzen.com  ?
[21:01] <RWF> oh ok thanks
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/
[21:43] <xubuntu23i> https://iptvbuddy.com/


[11:55] <blackflow> Mmmmmh. iron-clad, locked down, systemd-cgroup-containerized, apparmored, unprivileged (no root master) nginx server running on Bionic.     Tastes like a million dollars. With a side dish of occasional CVE corrosion in that iron, but eh...
[11:56] <blackflow> Ooh! Ooh! Running atop of LUKS encrypted ZFS root.
[13:55] <taylan> can someone help me troubleshoot my mail server?  I tried to configure postfix and courier with ldap, but thunderbird can't connect to a user I defined in ldap...  no idea what debugging tools are available to pinpoint the problem.  they are listening on 465 and 993 on all interfaces and I can open a TCP connection to these ports from the computer with thunderbird on it.
[13:56] <compdoc> thunderbird supports ldap? i had no idea
[14:02] <taylan> compdoc: no, postfix and courier do
[14:04] <taylan> my problem description was crap.  in thunderbird, I'm trying to add an ccount.  I entered the smtp and imap hostnames, selected ssl/tls for both, but when I click on "Re-test" it says "Thunderbird failed to find the settings for your mail account"
[14:05] <compdoc> seems like an odd error. like its trying to autoconfigure instead of accepting your settings
[14:05] <taylan> by the way, the reason I'm trying to set up courier is that "apt-get install dovecot" fails.  the install scripts seem not to add some users and groups they should be adding...  anyone know this problem?
[14:05] <taylan> I'm on LTS
[14:07] <compdoc> anyway, Im no expert on ldap, and its early yet. hang out and ask again. maybe someone will know. mught also ask in  ##networking
[14:07] <taylan> oh, when I manually select some auth options in thunderbird, the error message becomes "username or password invalid".  I guess that's a step forward
[14:07] <taylan> ok thanks :)
[14:10] <blackflow> taylan: begin with postfix and dovecot errors, they must've logged what went wrong
[14:10] <blackflow> ohwait... courier....
[14:11] <taylan> blackflow: see above: I couldn't install dovecot :(
[14:11] <blackflow> taylan: ok one problem at a time. dovecot installed just fine here on bionic. dovecot-imapd thatis
[14:12] <taylan> it first erred out because the "dovecot" group didn't exist.  I added it manually.  then it said the user "dovenull" doesn't exist, and I didn't want to continue trying to fix things manually...
[14:12] <blackflow> which package though? dovecot per se doesn't exist, you must be explicit about which compoentn you install
[14:13] <taylan> I think it was the core package that caused the errors already.  let me retry.
[14:13] <blackflow> bionic or xenial? because it just installed fine on bionic
[14:14] <taylan> silly question but what's the quickest way to find out?  I think I'm on 16.04, whatever codename that has.
[14:14] <jelly> lsb_release -sc
[14:14] <taylan> thanks.  xenial it is.
[14:18] <blackflow> doesn't seem like anything like this has been reported for dovecot as bug. I wonder if there's a permission problem preventing install scripts from creating the group and the user
[14:19] <blackflow> at any rate, dovecot is strongly recommended for postfix, especially for sasl.
[14:20] <taylan> I just found this<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:22] <taylan> sadly the mails by the original reporter don't seem to be in the archive.  the subsequent reply indicates that they were able to solve the problem somehow
[14:23] <blackflow> status: Invalid, no wonder it didn't show for me in search
[14:23] <blackflow> bug #1785584
[14:24] <taylan> ah neat, that has the full contents
[14:26] <taylan> hmm, it's not the same issue though.  my /etc/group and /etc/passwd are clean.
[14:35] <taylan> oh damn, found the problem, and it's crazy
[14:35] <blackflow> taylan: what is it?
[14:36] <taylan> I have a ~/bin/adduser and ~/bin in my PATH.  it does something completely different than /usr/sbin/adduser
[14:37] <taylan> hmm, one could say 'apt-get' shouldn't be affected by that...  anyway, I'll rename it.
[14:44] <blackflow> taylan: it reminds me of the Dwarf Fortress game causing havoc in Debian, because its binary is `df` and was in PATH before /bin/df
[14:44] <taylan> hahaha
[14:45] <blackflow> so now that you got to the root of it, pun intended, install dovecot. dovecot > courier, especially for sasl. then check the logs, enable auth verbosity for dovecot.
[14:49] <taylan> yeah, installed it already.  checking out how to configure it for ldap


[04:34] <catid> hello.. the respawn COMMAND syntax no longer works right?
[04:35] <catid> i'm trying to update my svscan script in event.d to work with Fiesty
[04:35] <catid> respawn exec /command/svscanboot doesn't seem to do the trick
[04:36] <catid> would someone please help me to craft this so upstart will do the right thing?
[04:40] <catid> eh, just removing respawn from the line works..
[04:40] <catid> having it respawn would be nice though
[04:41] <catid> later..
[09:44] <cwillu> is upstart broken'ish on edgy?
[09:57] <sadleder> cwillu: why do you think so?
[10:02] <cwillu> more likely my assumptions are off
[10:02] <cwillu> events/jobs are run as root?
[10:03] <cwillu> I can't seem to get any output out of a script in an exec or respawn line;  I know the script runs because the process stays alive if I change the script to 'sleep 100m', but it seems like if I put anything else in there, it doesn't do anything.  It seems to work fine if I run it via sudo though
[10:15] <cwillu> ah, no $HOME
[10:15] <cwillu> this is why you don't do work at this hour
[10:15] <cwillu> while the drunks are still in the office (grr)
[10:19] <sadleder> hmm, was that the problem?
[11:05] <sadlede1> cwillu: could you resolve the problem?
[11:12] <cwillu> ya, environment wasn't as I expected
[11:12] <cwillu> there's still a udev glitch on edgy that I'm working around, but things are working
[11:18] <sadlede1> cwillu: ah, ok
[11:19] <sadlede1> cwillu: for what task are you using upstart on edgy?
[11:20] <cwillu> multiseat autoconfig;  udev to assign keyboards devices names corresponding to existing displays, and then triggering an upstart event to launch an evdev bridge from that device to the actual display
[11:20] <cwillu> the idea being that a keyboard should be able to be unplugged, and a different one plugged in, and it'll get assigned to the display that's missing a keyboard
[11:21] <sadlede1> wow
[11:21] <cwillu> additionally, if a display used a particular usb port before, it'll prefer to use a keyboard on that port again if available
[11:22] <cwillu> which makes the initial setup much easier:  don' t have to move keyboards around if they don't go to the right monitors when it's first set up, you can just swap the plugs
[11:23] <cwillu> from there on in, as long as you don't unplug more than two keyboards at the same time, and then plug them into physically different ports, everything will work as expected
[11:23] <cwillu> important when somewhat computer illerate people will need to keep 5 keyboards pointing at the right 5 monitors :p
[11:23] <cwillu> (re:  said drunks)
[11:24] <cwillu> only thing left is to selectively re-trigger the udev event for keyboards that are unassigned when a new display comes up
[11:26] <cwillu> I figure it should save us about $10,000 a year in electricity alone (16 less computers, better options for power savings on the ones that are left)
[11:27] <sadlede1> what is the system you are developing this for?
[11:27] <cwillu> phone order stations for a pizza shop
[11:27] <cwillu> currently use a bunch of old machines, one per phone line
[11:30] <sadlede1> cwillu: sounds like a great project
[11:52] <sadlede1> cwillu: so you have 5 graphic adapters?
[11:52] <sadlede1> in one machine?
[11:52] <cwillu> 3 dual headed
[11:53] <cwillu> although I'm planning on using cheaper singleheaded cards in other machines
[11:53] <cwillu> there's another bit of magic to make this work on sharedfb displays :p
[04:19] <_ion> Heh
[04:20] <Keybuk> what amuses me is mostly how many inches of column can be dedicated to a licence that doesn't even exist yet
[04:21] <_ion> :-)
[04:22] <Keybuk> I've had maybe a dozen e-mails so far asking whether Upstart will be GPL-3
[04:23] <_ion> Heh, that's interesting
[04:23] <Keybuk> I just reply that I can't make any decision until I've read the final version of the licence, and until then it will definitely remain GPL-2
[04:26] <_ion> The source can be used under the terms of GPL-3 as well, as soon as it exists anyway.
[04:26] <_ion> unless you remove the "or (at your option) any later version" clause. :-)
[04:26] <Keybuk> sure, I don't see a problem there
[04:27] <Keybuk> the FSF have always promised the GPL-3 will only be more restrictive
[04:27] <_ion> Yeah
[04:27] <Keybuk> it won't allow people to do things the GPL-2 prevents people from doing
[04:27] <Keybuk> so someone has the option of modifying and/or distributing the source /under the terms/ of the later version
[04:27] <Keybuk> they don't have permission to *change* the terms, just follow the more restrictive ones
[04:27] <_ion> Indeed.
[04:28] <Keybuk> and that permits the code being combined with GPL-3 code at a later date
[04:29] <Keybuk> providing the GPL-3 isn't bad, there's no problem there
[04:29] <Keybuk> if there's real problems with it, I'll remove the clause :p
[04:39] <_ion> Etsivt etsivt etsivt etsivt etsivt etsivt etsivt.
[04:39] <_ion> That translates roughly to "the private investigators, that search for the private investigators, search for the private investigators that search for the private investigators". :-)
[04:40] <Keybuk> ?#
[04:41] <_ion> Something akin to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo thing :-)
[05:18] <cortana> nice link
[05:52] <cwillu> what version of upstart supports arguments on events?
[05:52] <Keybuk> 0.3.2 I think
[05:52] <Keybuk> 0.3.8 is the current recommended version
[05:53] <cwillu> :/  edgy is runs 2.something I think
[05:53] <cwillu> no environment vars either, huh
[05:53] <_ion> Feisty will be released soon. :-)
[05:53] <cwillu> this is true, which just means I have to take out whatever hack job I use to get this working this month when its release next month :p
[05:54] <cwillu> know of any good hackjobs to do this?
[05:54] <_ion> What are you trying to do?
[05:55] <cwillu> I've got some udev stuff that maps keyboards to heads on a multi-seat system, but doesn't actually do the connection (just names them after the server that should use them)
[05:55] <cwillu> I've got another program that reads the keyboard and forwards the events via xtest
[05:56] <cwillu> I want to have that last program launched via upstart
[05:57] <cwillu> "initctl trigger kbd/added <device name>" is what I'm after
[05:58] <cwillu> but there may be anywhere from 1 to 12 heads, so I'd like to avoid making 12 upstart event definitions if possible
[05:59] <Keybuk> you want to use the current version of upstart, then
[05:59] <cwillu> that's what I hear :)
[05:59] <cwillu> does it work with edgy?
[06:00] <_ion> It's probably easiest to grab the feisty source package and build it.
[06:01] <_ion> So you get the 0.3.8-compatible Ubuntu jobs as well.
[06:01] <cwillu> let me rephrase:  has the job definition syntax changed enough to break edgy jobs?
[06:01] <cwillu> ahh
[06:02] <cwillu> this is becoming a bit of a beast;  already running fiesty versions of some udev scripts (by-path symlinks otherwise stopped being generated if I plugged in more than a couple keyboards), evince (didn't handle landscape printing in edgy),
[06:04] <_ion> There's always the possibility of upgrading to feisty already.
[06:05] <cwillu> running it at home, true enough;  haven't run into any issues there
[06:06] <cwillu> though come to think of it, I'm already going through the legwork to make sure the device name is constant, even if the physical keyboard for that display changes.  I could just poll the device
[06:13] <cwillu> would make it an easy fix for fiesty at least
[06:24] <cwillu> is there a handy script to wait for a display to come up?  I can rip the code out of xinit, but if it already exists...
[06:27] <_ion> Can't you just use xinit directly?
[06:30] <cwillu> it doesn't really fit in very well with what I'm trying to do;  would work fine for the nested servers, but the master server, I don't want any window managers running, I don't want it to exit when the clients quit, and the list of clients is generated dynamically
[06:31] <cwillu> I already checked the xinit source code, it's just polling xopendisplay, so I'll probably just reimplement that
[06:32] <cwillu> I dunno; xinit just leaves a bad taste in my mouth
[06:44] <cwillu> and thus was born xpoll :p
[07:03] <cwillu> is there a trick to getting upstart to redetect /etc/event.d scripts under edgy?
[07:04] <Keybuk> it does it by itself
[07:06] <cwillu> so I should be able to dump a one line "exec <some script>", and launch that job immediated via "start <filename in event.d>"?
[07:06] <cwillu> immediately even
[07:06] <Keybuk> yes
[07:07] <cwillu> 'cause I can't :p
[07:07] <Keybuk> oh
[07:07] <cwillu> "initctl: Unknown job: masterServer"
[07:07] <Keybuk> /etc/event.d/masterServer exists ?
[07:07] <cwillu> cwillu@8th:/etc/event.d$ ls -l masterServer
[07:07] <cwillu> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 149 2007-03-23 12:05 masterServer
[07:08] <Keybuk> check the syslog to make sure theres no parse error
[07:08] <cwillu> nothing shows up in syslog, although I did have a couple hits on some other jobs I just tried
[07:09] <Keybuk> try opening it and saving it again :p
[07:09] <Keybuk> 0.2 wasn't very good at this
[07:09] <cwillu> I'm noticing this :)
[07:09] <cwillu> okay, got something that time
[07:16] <Keybuk> gnargh
[07:16] <Keybuk> yet another "why doesn't upstart use yacc to parse its config files?" e-mail
[07:17] <Keybuk> 1) because yacc does not generate parsers
[07:22] <cortana> it doesn't?
[07:25] <Keybuk> no ... it generates a grammar reader
[07:25] <Keybuk> e.g. you can tell bison
[07:25] <Keybuk>   expression: expression '+' expression
[07:25] <Keybuk>             | NUMBER
[07:26] <Keybuk>             ;
[07:26] <Keybuk> but you can't tell it how to extract NUMBER or '+' from a file, or where the whitespace goes, etc.
[07:26] <cortana> well, is that not lex's job
[07:26] <Keybuk> exactly
[07:27] <Keybuk> the correct question would be "why doesn't upstart use LEX/FLEX to parse its config files?"
[07:27] <Keybuk> :p
[07:27] <cortana> ok now i know i didn't totally misunderstand what they o :)
[07:27] <cortana> exactly ;)
[07:27] <Keybuk> yacc/bison aren't much use here, because the config grammar is simpler to deal with using a function table
[07:27] <cortana>  & does it?
[07:27] <Keybuk> no
[07:27] <cortana> but then again lexing is piss easy
[07:27] <cortana> i'm surprised this is such an FAQ