[01:10] <glyph> Hiya. We've got a buildbot which is using bzr, while our main repository is still SVN.  The buildbot wants to build svn revisions.  svn:revno almost does what we want, except it demands a level of precision we can't necessarily provide:
[01:10] <glyph> To wit, when we have a revision number that is in a branch, but we try to check it out on trunk, we don't get the "highest without going over" behavior that "svn checkout" would produce.
[01:11] <glyph> Is there a way to get that behavior without lots of hacking of 'bzr log' and its output?
[01:14] <lifeless> possibly
[01:14] <lifeless> uhm
[01:14] <lifeless> before:svn:xxx
[01:14] <lifeless> or after:svn:xxx
[01:15] <lifeless> or you could write a plugin for svn-approx:xxxx
[01:15] <lifeless> which would do whatever you need
[01:15] <lifeless> revision resolving plugins are pretty simple
[01:16] <glyph> lifeless: interesting
[01:17] <glyph> lifeless: that doesn't seem to work though.
[01:17] <glyph> bzr: ERROR: Unsupported protocol for url "after:svn:34810"
[01:20] <lifeless> after might be science fiction
[01:20] <lifeless> I suspect you need a small resolver
[01:21] <lifeless> bzr help revisionspec will give you the current ones
[01:21] <lifeless> you can look at e.g. bzr-svn to see how svn: is implemented and registered
[01:23] <glyph> lifeless: OK.  Probably don't need it, but that's good to keep in mind.  I did write a bunch of shortcut plugins for my own personal use :)
[01:23] <glyph> no revision plugins though.
[01:28] <spiv> revspec plugins are pretty straightforward.
[01:28] <lifeless> glyph: I suspect a plugin is what you need, that or a patch to the svn revspec to be fuzzy
[04:11] <tomprince> bzr: ERROR: Requested revision: u'svn:35497' does not exist in branch: BzrBranch7('http://svn.twistedmatrix.com/bzr/Twisted/trunk/')
[04:12] <tomprince> ^--- does this indicate an out-of-date version bzr/bzr-svn?
[04:28] <spiv> tomprince: is the bzr-svn plugin loaded?  (does it appear in 'bzr plugins' ?)|
[04:28] <spiv> Or possibly it means that bzr mirror of the svn trunk is out of date?
[04:44] <tomprince> I don't have access to the host. It could be that the bzr-svn plugin is loaded.
[04:45] <tomprince> http://buildbot.twistedmatrix.com/builders/rhel6-32bit-py2.6/builds/984/steps/bzr/logs/stdio
[04:45] <tomprince> spiv: ^--- is the output I get.
[04:47] <tomprince> I'm trying to diagnose the problem remotely, so I can provide instructions to the person who has access to the machine.
[04:57] <spiv> I guess ideally the 'bzr' step of that buildslave config would capture the .bzr.log and put it somewhere visible.
[04:57] <spiv> Or perhaps run bzr with -Derror or something
[05:01] <spiv> Well, 'bzr log -r-1 -v --long --show-ids http://svn.twistedmatrix.com/bzr/Twisted/trunk/' shows its currently at svn's r35499
[05:02] <spiv> So that error does suggest that there's something wrong with bzr-svn on that slave.
[08:07] <mgz> morning
[08:51] <jelmer> pom
[08:55] <jelmer> tomprince: hi
[08:55] <jelmer> tomprince: did that revision touch that particular branch?
[11:10] <jml> *awesome*
[11:10] <jml> $ bzr di
[11:10] <jml> [11:10] <jml> bzr: ERROR: Could not understand response from smart server: ['x\x9c\xa5\x92\xcb\x0e\x820\x10E\xd7\xf2\x15\xee\r\xad\xa0\x10\x1f\xf1cJ[\xa1\x81>\x9c\xb6$\xb2\xf0\xdb\x85\x80Q0\x01\x13\x17\x93Lf\xe6\xde\x93\xde\x14a!\x8d\x06\x17Z']
[11:10] <mgz> hm... new in the last few days I take it?
[11:11] <jml> mgz: new today for me
[11:11] <jml> lightweight checkout
[11:11] <mgz> we upgraded launchpad to bzr 2.5.1 which has some new fancy for doing some operations over the smart server that weren't before
[11:11] <mgz> so, please file a bug with as much info as possible.
[11:12] <jml> ok.
[11:13] <mgz> obvious work around is have a local trunk branch that you branch from, so diffs from lwc use that
[11:13] <jml> yeah, I'm doing that right now
[11:13] <mgz> thanks jml.
[11:13] <jml> huh, apparently a lock has been taken
[11:13] <mgz> ...you might need to manuall break it
[11:13] <mgz> also worth putting in the bug report
[11:14] <mgz> ah... launchpad might be unhappy right now?
[11:18] <jml> mgz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/1046265
[11:18] <mgz> is it repoducable, I neglected to ask?
[11:19] <jml> mgz: yes, although I haven't tried from a fresh light-weight checkout, only one that already existed.
[11:45] <jam> mgz, jelmer: any success with the python-defaults stuff?
[11:47] <jam> jml: what were you using a lightweight checkout for that you were running diff? (the only specific common one I know of is the download-cache, but diff is pretty useless for tarballs)
[11:48] <jml> jam: a branch that contains only a config-manager configuration file, sourcedeps.conf
[11:48] <jelmer> jml: can you file a bug about this issue?
[11:49] <jml> jelmer: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/1046265 somehow insufficient?
[11:49] <jam> jelmer: he did file #1046265 was there another one?
[11:49] <jelmer> jml: worked on landing use-bzr-policy-open earlier, and am going to upload a new python-defaults soon
[11:49] <jelmer> jml: No, that's great - thanks
[11:49] <jml> jelmer: np.
[11:49] <jelmer> I didn't see that
[11:50] <jam> jelmer: use-bzr-policy-open?
[11:50] <jam> an lp branch
[11:50] <jelmer> jam: yep, to get launchpad to use the bzr code for safely opening branches
[12:08] <jml> see also $ bzr ci
[12:08] <jml> Committing to: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-ca-hackers/ca-configs/txpkgme-configmanager/
[12:08] <jml> modified sourcedeps.conf
[12:08] <jml> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.TooManyConcurrentRequests: The medium 'SmartSSHClientMedium(bzr+ssh://jml@bazaar.launchpad.net/)' has reached its concurrent request limit. Be sure to finish_writing and finish_reading on the currently open request.
[12:08] <jml> Traceback (most recent call last):
[12:08] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 930, in exception_to_return_code
[12:08] <jml>     return the_callable(*args, **kwargs)
[12:08] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 1141, in run_bzr
[12:08] <jml>     ret = run(*run_argv)
[12:08] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 673, in run_argv_aliases
[12:08] <jml>     return self.run(**all_cmd_args)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/commands.py", line 697, in run
[12:09] <jml>     return self._operation.run_simple(*args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/cleanup.py", line 136, in run_simple
[12:09] <jml>     self.cleanups, self.func, *args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/cleanup.py", line 166, in _do_with_cleanups
[12:09] <jml>     result = func(*args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/builtins.py", line 3688, in run
[12:09] <jml>     lossy=lossy)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/decorators.py", line 218, in write_locked
[12:09] <jml>     result = unbound(self, *args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/workingtree_4.py", line 218, in commit
[12:09] <jml>     result = WorkingTree.commit(self, message, revprops, *args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/decorators.py", line 218, in write_locked
[12:09] <jml>     result = unbound(self, *args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/mutabletree.py", line 211, in commit
[12:09] <jml>     *args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/commit.py", line 290, in commit
[12:09] <jml>     lossy=lossy)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/cleanup.py", line 132, in run
[12:09] <jml>     self.cleanups, self.func, self, *args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/cleanup.py", line 166, in _do_with_cleanups
[12:09] <jml>     result = func(*args, **kwargs)
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/commit.py", line 452, in _commit
[12:09] <jml>     self.builder.abort()
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/vf_repository.py", line 217, in abort
[12:09] <jml>     self.repository.abort_write_group()
[12:09] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/remote.py", line 1212, in abort_write_group
[12:09] <jml>     suppress_errors=suppress_errors)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/repository.py", line 282, in abort_write_group
[12:10] <jml>     self._abort_write_group()
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/repofmt/pack_repo.py", line 1708, in _abort_write_group
[12:10] <jml>     self._pack_collection._abort_write_group()
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/repofmt/pack_repo.py", line 1565, in _abort_write_group
[12:10] <jml>     operation.run_simple()
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/cleanup.py", line 136, in run_simple
[12:10] <jml>     self.cleanups, self.func, *args, **kwargs)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/cleanup.py", line 166, in _do_with_cleanups
[12:10] <jml>     result = func(*args, **kwargs)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/repofmt/pack_repo.py", line 436, in abort
[12:10] <jml>     self.upload_transport.delete(self.random_name)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/transport/remote.py", line 313, in delete
[12:10] <jml>     resp = self._call2('delete', self._remote_path(relpath))
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/transport/remote.py", line 181, in _call2
[12:10] <jml>     return self._client.call(method, *args)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/client.py", line 59, in call
[12:10] <jml>     result, protocol = self.call_expecting_body(method, *args)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/client.py", line 72, in call_expecting_body
[12:10] <jml>     method, args, expect_response_body=True)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/client.py", line 55, in _call_and_read_response
[12:10] <jml>     return request.call_and_read_response()
[12:10] <jam> jml: pastebin is your friend :)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/client.py", line 157, in call_and_read_response
[12:10] <jml>     return self._call(protocol_version)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/client.py", line 189, in _call
[12:10] <jml>     response_handler = self._send(protocol_version)
[12:10] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/client.py", line 265, in _send
[12:10] <jml>     encoder, response_handler = self._construct_protocol(protocol_version)
[12:11] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/client.py", line 241, in _construct_protocol
[12:11] <jml>     request = self.client._medium.get_request()
[12:11] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/medium.py", line 884, in get_request
[12:11] <jml>     return SmartClientStreamMediumRequest(self)
[12:11] <jam> also, at least with a trivial branch here, I don't see the failure when creating a new lightweight checkout of a single-file single-commit branch and modifying it and committing.
[12:11] <jml>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/bzrlib/smart/medium.py", line 1167, in __init__
[12:11] <jml>     raise errors.TooManyConcurrentRequests(self._medium)
[12:11] <jml> TooManyConcurrentRequests: The medium 'SmartSSHClientMedium(bzr+ssh://jml@bazaar.launchpad.net/)' has reached its concurrent request limit. Be sure to finish_writing and finish_reading on the currently open request.
[12:11] <jml> bzr 2.6.0dev3 on python 2.7.3 (Linux-3.5.0-10-generic-x86_64-with-
[12:11] <jml>     Ubuntu-12.10-quantal)
[12:11] <jml> arguments: ['/usr/bin/bzr', 'ci']
[12:11] <jml> plugins: bash_completion[2.6.0dev3], branchdashboard[unknown],
[12:11] <jml>     bzrtools[2.5.0], changelog_merge[2.6.0dev3], damage[unknown],
[12:11] <jml>     difftodo[unknown], grep[0.5.0dev], launchpad[2.6.0dev3],
[12:11] <jml>     netrc_credential_store[2.6.0dev3], news_merge[2.6.0dev3],
[12:11] <jam> jml: so if this is a public thing, can you tar up your local checkout, and put it somewhere for us to test?
[12:11] <jml>     po_merge[2.6.0dev3], pqm[1.4.0dev], stats[0.2.0dev], svn[1.2.3dev],
[12:11] <jml>     weave_fmt[2.6.0dev3]
[12:11] <jml> encoding: 'utf-8', fsenc: 'UTF-8', lang: 'en_GB.UTF-8'
[12:11] <jml> *** Bazaar has encountered an internal error.  This probably indicates a
[12:11] <jml>     bug in Bazaar.  You can help us fix it by filing a bug report at
[12:11] <jml>         https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+filebug
[12:11] <jml>     including this traceback and a description of the problem.
[12:11] <jml> oops
[12:11] <jml> sorry.
[12:11] <jml> you know that thing where hitting Ctrl-C doesn't always copy because something in Ubuntu is slower than I am? that.
[12:11] <jml> I had meant https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/1046284
[12:11] <jml> no it's not
[12:12] <jml> jam: this is a different branch (I think)
[12:12] <jml> jam: chinstrap:~jml/txpkgme-configmanager.tar.gz
[12:13] <jam> jml: and this is using Q with the packaged bzr? or bzr.dev? or ?
[12:14] <jml> jam: packaged Q. (should I have included more information in the bug report?)
[12:15] <jam> jml: I think it has enough info there, but sometimes it is easier to just ask
[12:15] <jml> :)
[12:16] <jam> jml: bzr status says: bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-ca-hackers/ca-configs/txpkgme-configmanager/".
[12:16] <jml> jam: oh. well. it is a branch.
[12:16] <jam> jml: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-ca-hackers/ca-configs
[12:17] <jam> are you sure it isn't private?
[12:17] <jml> jam: oh yeah, it's private.
[12:17] <jam> so... I can't see it then :)
[12:17] <jml> jam: but not for any good reason that I know of
[12:17] <jam> jml: you are welcome to make it public, or add me for analysis purposes.
[12:17] <jml> jam: ah, right. you still work for Canonical, right? :P
[12:17] <jam> (and then kick me out later so I don't get bug spam)
[12:17] <jam> jml: I got paid last month, so I'm pretty sure I do
[12:21] <jml> jam: I've subscribed you to txpkgme-configmanager. Let me know if you need more access.
[12:22] <jam> jml: I can see it, and I can confirm that 'bzr diff' gives me a failure
[12:25] <jml> cool.
[12:42] <jam> jml: ok, I think I've figured out the bug
[12:42] <jam> I'm not sure why the ordering is this way
[12:43] <jam> but essentially, the _iter_files_bytes code yields a 'call this function to get the content of the file'
[12:43] <jam> however, the outer code is never calling that function.
[12:43] <jam> which means the bytes of the file are still in the stream
[12:43] <jam> so the next iteration goes through and says "is there another record here" and gets the file content instead of the tail of the stream.
[12:49] <jam> jml, jelmer: I see why now, should be a simple-ish fix
[12:50] <jelmer> jam: Thanks for debugging that
[12:50] <jelmer> jam: Are you submitting a fix?
[12:50] <jam> jelmer: yeah, the specific issue is that WT4 is doing list(iter_files_bytes())[0]
[12:50] <jam> however, that consumes the iterator
[12:50] <jam> *before* it consumes the content.
[12:50] <jelmer> ah
[12:51] <jam> so we just have to turn it into a for loop, etc.
[12:51] <jam> and then think about if we have a test hole.
[12:52] <jam> iter_files_bytes wasn't being used according to its spec, so one implementation did it differently (remoterepo vs local repo)
[12:52] <jam> but it wasn't detected because local repo caches the contents and returns a trivial function
[12:54] <jam> jelmer: interestingly, it looks like i'm the one to blame.
[12:54] <jam> back in rev 4204
[12:55] <mgz> well, that's nice.
[12:55] <jelmer> jam: to be fair, we never had that behaviour until recently
[12:55] <jam> jelmer,mgz: yeah it worked because we didn't actually implement iter_files_bytes as an RPC
[12:56] <jam> I wrote get_file_text back in bzr-1.14.. wow.
[12:56] <mgz> but iters that happen to always be listiter then usage breaking when that changes kind of thing isn't uncommon
[12:56] <jam> mgz: yeah, the issue is that you have to consume the callable returned as you iterate
[12:56] <jam> which I think has bit us once before, but it is pretty uncommon.
[12:56] <mgz> ...I think those words would make sense if I'd put them together in the right order
[13:00] <jam> mgz: well, I know the code and the problem, so it made enough sense to me :)
[13:09] <jam> jelmer, mgz: it has been a while since I dug into the hard bits. How would you set up a test for a lightweight checkout of a remote repository?
[13:10] <jelmer> jam: it depends a bit; for what you're hitting now I guess a blackbox test might be most appropriate?
[13:10] <jam> jelmer: I'd like to do a per-wt test sort of thing.
[13:11] <jelmer> jam: There are no tests verifying wt against a specific remote branch I think
[13:11] <jam> jelmer: yeah, which I think is part of the testing hole I mentioned earlier.
[13:11] <jelmer> jam: perhaps just add a test in bzrlib/tests/per_workingtree/ that sets up some remote branch and gets the wt to use that, if they are compatible?
[13:12] <mgz> jam: probably subclass TestCaseWithTransport then parametrise against classes in bt.test_server
[13:14] <mgz> ReadonlySmartTCPServer_for_testing should do, can then operate on branch locally the check it out, and make some tree changes, and diff
[13:15] <jam> mgz: well, I only need to call 'wt.get_file_text()' with a backing of a remote repo, so 'dif' isn't necessary
[13:15] <jam> (it is also why commit fails, etc.)
[13:15] <mgz> doesn't seem like per_workingtree has any remote tests
[13:15] <jam> well, I'm guessing, I didn't try to commit to a branch that isn't mine :)
[13:15] <jam> right
[13:32] <idnar> so there's `bzr deleted` and `bzr renames`; is there anything like `bzr modified`?
[13:33] <idnar> I'm looking for something nicer than bzr status -S | horrible-shell-hacking-here
[13:34] <mgz> idnar: what would be calling that?
[13:35] <idnar> I want to open all modified (and added, for that matter) files in my editor; so something like gvim -p $(bzr blahblah) would be my usage
[13:35] <idnar> it's not too important, I was just wondering if I missed something easy
[13:46] <mgz> hm, so writing shell is probably no worse than using the python bzrlib api or a plugin
[13:47] <fullermd> ls is more the interface intended for that.
[13:49] <mgz> odd, ls seems to be showing me ignored files by default
[13:50] <mgz> and lots of files that are not in fact modified...
[13:50] <fullermd> Hm, I thought ls had --modified and --deleted and such. But the help doesn't list them.
[13:51] <mgz> idnar: so, that's probably what you want, you might just need to submit some patches to fix it first :)
[14:42] <micahg> bzr: ERROR: zlib.error: Error -3 while decompressing: incorrect header check   trying to branch a local git repo to bzr
[15:12] <hariom> What are pros and cons of creating bzr repo in non root user space
[15:14] <mgz> hariom: I don't know exactly what you mean, but I can't think of any reason you'd want to do it.
[15:15] <mgz> micahg: is that a bug report or an observation?
[15:15] <micahg> mgz: it's an observation, I'm happy to file a bug report if appropriate :)
[15:15] <micahg> google was not forthcoming with a matching bug report
[15:16] <mgz> without traceback context (see .bzr.log) it's hard to suggest anything
[15:17] <micahg> mgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1187398/
[15:18] <mgz> generally errors from zlib mean a data file has been corrupted, but branching from git (which doesn't use the same mechanisms) might mean it's a dulwich bug or something
[15:21]  * micahg wishes he knew the equivalent of bzr check for git
[15:22] <mgz> right, was going to suggest that, but also don't know it
[15:24] <mgz> could set BZR_PDB=1, repeat the operation, step up the stack trace a bit and see if the packfile looks sane
[15:35] <mgz> micahg: either way, a bug report against dulwich would not hurt
[15:37] <gmarkall> would the bzr check equivalent be git fsck, maybe with --full and/or --strict?
[15:39] <micahg> gmarkall: ooh, thanks
[16:31] <micahg> mgz: consistency check finished, checkout still failed, I guess a dulwich bug it is then
[18:24] <mgz> oh, pants
[18:24] <mgz> how do I cancel a pqm run...
[18:27] <lifeless> sudo make me a sandwhich
[18:27] <mgz> I fear that won't work.
[18:27] <lifeless> sandwich then
[18:27] <mgz> and it's past the merge step to renaming the branch from under it is no good.
[18:28] <mgz> ...I don't have rights to uncommit from bzr.dev so can't fixup afterwards either
[18:29] <lifeless> land the reverse patch.
[18:29] <lifeless> uncommit on public branches is evil anyhow.
[18:29] <mgz> how much will webops hate me if I ask them to kill the process on whatever machine bzr's pqm runs on these days?
[18:29] <lifeless> well, thats what I meant by sudo :P
[18:29] <mgz> the merge will work, it's just targetted at the wrong branch, so will confuse the history
[18:29] <lifeless> its a fairly routine request - is it mid test run ?
[18:30] <mgz> yup,
[18:32] <mgz> thanks lifeless. I really must let launchpad load the diff before sending these routine things to land.
[18:57] <chinoto> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/admin-guide/simple-setups.html#using-a-restricted-ssh-account-to-host-multiple-users-and-repositories
[18:58] <chinoto> so my coworker decided to use that link to restrict access to our dev server so... "outsource workers"? could work on a project with us, but I can't even do a simple "bzr whoami"
[19:09] <chinoto> shnarf
[19:11] <mgz> chinoto: why would you want to run `bzr whoami` on the dev server?
[19:12] <mgz> and what exactly is the problem you're having?
[19:16] <chinoto> well I wanted to run "bzr update", but it didn't work so I decided to try a simpler command and saw whoami
[19:20] <chinoto> we have lines like this in '.ssh/authorized_keys'
[19:20] <chinoto> command="bzr serve --inet --allow-writes --directory=/home/bzr/repo",no-agent-forwarding,no-port-forwarding,no-pty,no-user-rc,no-X11-forwarding ssh-rsa AAA...= XYZ
[19:20] <chinoto> and I tried to do 'ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>"bzr whoami"', but it just blinked at me...
[19:29] <maxb> chinoto: you misunderstand how that ssh authorized keys stuff works - it means you cannot run commands on the server, so of course ssh host command does not work
[19:33] <chinoto> perhaps it isn't misunderstanding, but not understanding in the first place :3
[19:42] <chinoto> so I'm guessing this means I can only interact with the server through local bzr commands (eg 'bzr log --line :parent'). in order to update the server's working tree I would have to ssh in as a different user and do 'sudo -u bzr bzr update'?
[19:43] <lifeless> if you have a working tree
[19:43] <lifeless> servers generally don't
[19:43] <chinoto> well we do
[19:43] <lifeless> you may want bzr-upload for publishing a website, for instance.


[12:15] <cbx33> nn all
[12:16] <mhz> crimsun: so, could read the info (urls)?
[12:16] <mhz> cbx33: nn
[12:16] <crimsun> mhz: yes (phone conference presently)
[12:16] <cbx33> mhz, what was that question?
[12:17] <mhz> hehehe
[12:17] <mhz> cbx33: oooh, sorry, it was crimsun
 mhz: what sort of [free]  workshops have you guys/gals held for said teachers?\
[12:18] <mhz> crimsun: i did not get that
[12:18] <cbx33> grrrr
[12:18] <cbx33> :p
[12:18] <cbx33> hehe
[12:18] <cbx33> see pm
[12:18] <cbx33> mhz,
[12:18] <Petaris> later all
[12:19] <crimsun> mhz: Have you held any workshops/gatherings/presentations for teachers?
[12:19] <mhz> crimsun: yes I have
[12:19] <mhz> about 7
[12:19] <mhz> in last 9 months
[12:20] <mhz> oh, sorry, crimsun ... about 19 edubuntu demos, 7 talks/presentations
[12:23] <crimsun> mhz: what kind of feedback/response did you get from those teachers?
[12:24] <mhz> crimsum: a) ooh, good, I want that too but how is this diff from Edulinux
[12:24] <mhz> crimsun: b) hmm, I have no computers and can't afford them, Can you also provide them
 "the one on JaneW looks sexy" <- so we agree on many things
[12:25] <mhz> crimsun: c) cool! Please go to my school. I go there, and there are about 40 students in a class, and the lab has only 10 pcs, Pentium II
[12:25] <RichEd> but sharing goes only so far ;)
[12:25] <mhz> RichEd: LOL!!!
[12:25] <RichEd> and not further
[12:25] <RichEd> goodnight all ... off to bed ...
[12:26] <crimsun> mhz: not too dissimilar from the responses I've received.
[12:26] <LaserJock> goodnight RichEd
[12:26] <mhz> nn, RichEd
[12:27] <mhz> crimsun: yeah, it is incredible how similar it goes allover the world
[12:27] <mhz> education areas are too abandoned, even in Universities
[12:27] <mhz> there is a huge MONOculture
[12:30] <LaserJock> darn, that was rather funny. To bad he left
[12:36] <mhz> hehehe, Laser_away
[01:52] <bddebian> Hello
[01:52] <mhz> bddebian: hi there
[01:53] <HedgeMage> hi bddebian
[01:54] <bddebian> Hi mhz, HedgeMage
[01:55] <mhz> HedgeMage: TT, sleeping yet/
[01:55] <HedgeMage> mhz: nope, not for 3-4 more hours :)
[01:55] <mhz> eeek, then it is time you fetch him a nice keyboard
[01:57] <HedgeMage> hehe
[01:58] <HedgeMage> I finally got hubby's permission to dual-boot his old desktop so TT has a Linux computer to use regularly.
[01:58] <HedgeMage> hopefully going all-edubuntu eventually
[01:58] <mhz_food> yay!!
[03:28] <LaserJock> hmm, we should be in http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/48 and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Summary_18JULY2006
[03:30] <jsgotangco> we?
[03:30] <jsgotangco> ahh the 3 main flavours
[03:31] <jsgotangco> hehe
[08:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2006/tc20060718_915334.htm?campaign_id=bier_tclt2
[08:36] <highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry, my firefox has gone mad
[08:36] <highvoltage> i meant to post this link:
[08:36] <highvoltage> http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/07/19/1553242.shtml
[08:37] <LaserJock> the first one was funny
[08:37] <LaserJock> yep
[08:37] <highvoltage> :)
[08:37] <LaserJock> there is a thing called optical molasses (sp?)
[08:38] <LaserJock> where when you shoot molecules with lots and lots of photons you actually start slowing them down
[08:38] <LaserJock> we have a project in my lab that does some similar stuff
[08:38] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: did you change your jabber?
[08:38] <LaserJock> we want to trap the molecules and then use the laser to start them spinning
[08:38] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: jabberafrica.org doesn't exist anymore right?
[08:40] <highvoltage> LaserJock: wow. does your lab/institute have a website?
[08:41] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes, it doesn't exist anymore
[08:41] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm now<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:41] <LaserJock> highvoltage: not with info on that project
[08:41] <highvoltage> what happens when you make molekules spin in a stationary position?
[08:41] <highvoltage> do you build small engines and stuff?
[08:42] <LaserJock> we will turn them into gyroscopes
[08:42] <LaserJock> all spinning in the same direction
[08:42] <LaserJock> they you can shoot them at other molecules ;-)
[08:42] <highvoltage> ah yes. I remember some things you explained to me about the direction that molecules spin in.
[08:43] <highvoltage> geepers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbocaj/192436679
[09:21] <Burgundavia> hey RichEd
[09:21] <RichEd> 'lo Burgundavia
[09:22] <RichEd> pretty quiet here ... all code complete & all children educated then ?
[09:22] <RichEd> ;)
[09:23] <Burgundavia> nope
[09:23] <Burgundavia> merely the quiet time as NA is asleep and EU not yet up
[09:23] <RichEd> okay ... so i am in africa (sort of in the middle) and you ?
[09:24] <pygi> morning all
[09:24] <Burgundavia> west coast of Canada, Victoria BC
[09:24] <Burgundavia> hey pygi
[09:24] <Burgundavia> RichEd: you are in Cape Town?
[09:25] <RichEd> yebo :)
[09:26] <Burgundavia> if I have the money/time, I am planning to travel back to SA and see the family. I should stop in an bug the shuttleworth/canonical/hbd crew
[09:28] <jsgotangco> RichEd: so did you get to read my email
[09:28] <jsgotangco> RichEd: ignore the conference reply thing btw
[09:29] <RichEd> jsgotangco: hi there :)
[09:29] <jsgotangco> doesnt fall in our scope to say the least
[09:29] <RichEd> sure did ... get the mail thanks ...
[09:29] <jsgotangco> RichEd: so did i pass the "good military report" thing
[09:29] <jsgotangco> cool
[09:29] <Burgundavia> night all
[09:29] <RichEd> just to get my head straight ... this was discussion #2 - Lopez
[09:29] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:29] <RichEd> night Burgundavia ...
[09:30] <RichEd> so you just used the general format suggested for #1 :)
[09:30] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:30] <jsgotangco> i thought it fit well
[09:30] <RichEd> initiative & reuse ... you'll make a good soldier lad !
[09:38] <cbx33> mornin all
[09:39] <pygi> hey cbx33
[09:39] <cbx33> hi pygi
[09:51] <pygi> whats up cbx33? :)
[09:56] <cbx33> hmmm...waiting for gisomount to get into universe
[09:56] <cbx33> it's been approved on REVU
[09:57] <pygi> oh !
[12:03] <pygi> anyone have any idea how can I get ahold of my freenode password? :P
[12:22] <pygi> Burgwork: any chance you are here?
[12:47] <RichEd> observation: when a windows application crashes, and it asks if i would like to send a bug report, my first reaction is "no way" ... i have just had my first Ubuntu (evolution) crash, and when i got the same request, i am more than happy to send it, and hope that it helps them in future.
[12:48] <ogra> :)
[12:51] <pygi> RichEd: And what you learned out of it? :)
[12:51] <jsgotangco> i dont agree with that
[12:52] <ogra> rodarvus, !
[12:52] <jsgotangco> if its a serious bug in a windows application, im more than happy to report it
[12:52] <jsgotangco> because im not the only one whose going to benefit when it gets fixed (hopefully)
[12:54] <rodarvus> good morning
[12:55] <rodarvus> hi ogra!
[12:55] <RichEd> yes, but there is always a feeling that the people at MS are looking too deply into your personal details
[12:55] <RichEd> it may be a predjudice on my behalf, but i'm sure i am not the only one !
[12:56] <ogra> rodarvus, i'd like a opinion about a change i plan in ltsp
[12:56] <RichEd> pygi : i feel glad to be part of a community ... not a consumer of a corporate product
[12:56] <rodarvus> ogra: go ahead :)
[12:57] <RichEd> jim morrison said: the police are supposed to look over us, now they look at us <- i guess that's how i feel about the "MS commercial machine"
[12:57] <ogra> rodarvus, we constantly have problems with people changing their IP on the ltsp server and not being able to login afterwards because they forget to run ltsp-update-sshkeys
[12:58] <ogra> rodarvus, the idea is to add a /etc/network/if-up.d/ script that generates them every time the interface comes up (afer te IP is set)
[12:58] <pygi> RichEd: :)
[12:59] <rodarvus> ogra: seems quite sane, imho - we just need to check if LTSP is setup before running the script
[12:59] <ogra> that will slow down the interface configuration a bit but would guarantee that the keys are always in pace
[12:59] <rodarvus> but otherwise, should be ok
[01:00] <ogra> rodarvus, ltsp-update-sshkeys already has these checks in my local branch ... i also switched it to use logger for its output, so we have feedback in /var/log/messages
[01:00] <rodarvus> /var/log/messages is probably not a good place for that
[01:00] <ogra> ok, if you think thats sane, i'll do the switch
[01:00] <ogra> thast what logger uses by default
[01:01] <rodarvus> correct, but only by default :)
[01:01] <ogra> i can use logger -f with any file you like, which would be your preferred one ?
[01:02] <ogra> daemon.log ? syslog ?
[01:03] <rodarvus> there is no ltsp specific log, yet?
[01:03] <ogra> waht for ?
[01:03] <ogra> theo only things that could log there would be dhcpd or sshd
[01:03] <ogra> but they log in daemon log anyway
[01:03] <rodarvus> yes, overkill, indeed
[01:04] <rodarvus> I was just wondering it would be nice to have a central place to have ltsp-related logs to go (such as we have for samba, apache, squid, etc)
[01:04] <ogra> (ssh even scatters its info over daemon and auth log)
[01:04] <ogra> i had that for the installer, but even there Kamion asked me to make it included into the main installer log
[01:05] <rodarvus> right
[01:05] <ogra> (which i'm not really fond of ... having a separate ltsp log there would be a lot easier than grepping)
[01:06] <rodarvus> maybe syslog
[01:06] <ogra> but the in-target function of the installer seems to not allow that ... i was thinking of parallel logging to a separate log *inside* of ltsp-build-client
[01:06] <rodarvus> as its a semi-generic system event
[01:07] <ogra> (which would mean we have a /var/log/ltsp-build.log in the target system after install
[01:07] <highvoltage> this is weird. as i'm reading ogra and rodarvus's text i'm hearing it in their accents in my head.
[01:07] <ogra> ok, putting it in sslog
[01:07] <ogra> *syslog
[01:07] <ogra> highvoltage, hehe
[01:09] <rodarvus> haha
[01:10] <rodarvus> highvoltage: apparently you really need a break :D
[01:11] <rodarvus> well, we don't use xdmcp
[01:11] <ogra> but they do in some setups
[01:12] <ogra> but its up to them, they can add a preseedable debconf option to ltsp-server to not install the script ...
[01:17] <bimberi> RichEd: that ("i feel glad to be part of a community ... not a consumer of a corporate product") is so very very well put!
[01:18] <RichEd> bimberi: it's just us ... in my olde worlde it was us & them
[01:20] <bimberi> :)
[01:22] <bimberi> yes, there's a very different _feel_ about using Free software
[01:31] <rodarvus> ogra: is edubuntu-membership also free-for-all (as with edubuntu-testers?)
[01:31] <ogra> for the edubuntu team, yes ... not for edubuntu-members though ...
[01:32] <ogra> i'm not sure we schould keep the edubuntu team ... it predates edubuntu-members
[01:32] <ogra> and has not really any functional use ...
[01:32] <rodarvus> actually, I agree with you here.
[01:33] <ogra> (apart from perpole declaring they like edubuntu )
[01:33] <rodarvus> lets add this as subject for the next meeting?
[01:33] <ogra> ok
[01:33] <ogra> i'm not sure how to close a LP team though
[01:33] <ogra> or if thats even possible
[01:33] <pygi> LP people can probably do it
[01:34] <ogra> they ca for sure
[01:34] <ogra> *can
[01:34] <ogra> but still we'd need to notify the users about *why* we're doing it ... there are many users that never participated in any communication channel (IRC/ML)
[01:35] <ogra> i wouldnt like to just kill the team without pushing them a bit into direction of real membership
[01:35] <rodarvus> I suppose we can just send a spam to all of the members of Edubuntu
[01:35] <ogra> not through LP ... sadly
[01:36] <ogra> there is a mailinglist feature for teams panned, but that doesnt work yet
[01:36] <ogra> *planned
[01:36] <pygi> ogra, we can just remove them from the team and do a comment that we are erasing the team
[01:36] <ogra> with a hint to apply for real membership ... yes, that sounds good
[01:37] <pygi> indeed
[01:37] <pygi> tho, from a lot of people there we havent heard never
[01:37] <ogra> yep
[01:37] <bimberi> ogra: how about this ...
[01:37] <ogra> but that doesnt mean we should loose tem :)
[01:37] <ogra> *them
[01:38] <bimberi> there's a kubuntu-users team that for "All users of Kubuntu!", how about renaming the edubuntu team to that and let it work the same way
[01:38] <pygi> ogra: ofcourse
[01:38] <bimberi> s/that/edubuntu-users/
[01:38] <ogra> bimberi, that sounds way better than deleting it ...
[01:39] <ogra> and we can still send that notification to make them aware of edubuntu-members :)
[01:39] <bimberi> it's just an open team that anyone can join and you never know it might be a way you can contact a group of users in the future
[01:39] <ogra> yes, thats one of the desired LP features ...
[01:39] <bimberi> (although the mailing list is fine for that :) )
[01:40] <rodarvus> seems like a great idea
[01:40] <ogra> yeah
[01:40] <bimberi> https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-users (for ref)
[03:06] <ogra> dont use it then :)
[03:06] <ogra> rsync /etc/passwd and /etc/groups and /etc/shadow through ssh ;)
[03:13] <RichEd> ogra ... ready for some more good OEM news ?
[03:15] <RichEd> kc from taiwan has a strong enquiry from Quanta computers for Ubuntu OEM OLPC
[03:17] <highvoltage> you can have OEM OLPC's? that's interesting.
 They will plan a new US $200 OLPC product for richer children and want to know how to bundle ubuntu Linux in any business model. <endquote>
[03:25] <highvoltage> cool.
[03:25] <ogra> YAY
[03:25] <ogra> rodarvus, ^^^^^^^^^^
[03:25] <ogra> RichEd, rodarvus is our OLPC guy :)
[03:26] <rodarvus> :)
[03:26] <rodarvus> RichEd: thats great news!
[03:27] <RichEd> this is forbes.com --- start
[03:27] <RichEd> Lam is the billionaire founder and chairman of Taiwan's Quanta Computer. He'll be disappointed if he doesn't ship 4 million notebook units this yearone seventh of all those sold on earth and up 50% from last year. Quanta makes more notebooks than anyone else, but you've probably never heard of it. You do know its customers: Dell, Compaq, Gateway, Apple, HP, IBM, Sony, Sharp, Fujitsu, Siemens.
[03:27] <RichEd> this is forbes.com --- end
[03:27] <RichEd> :))
[03:28] <rodarvus> RichEd: so this is all public info already?
[03:28] <ogra> wow
[03:29] <RichEd> an enquiry thus far ... nothing formal as yet ...
[03:29] <RichEd> but they are approaching us
[03:30] <rodarvus> nice
[03:44] <cbx33> that's cool
[03:46] <jsgotangco> that's interesting, although i did hear before of a plan to create a very cheap laptop
[03:46] <jsgotangco> the cheapest you can get here is around $300US
[03:47] <jsgotangco> and its not even a laptop, but a tiny mobo in a laptop shell with lcd but no battery =(
[04:06] <highvoltage> apparently intel is manufacturing a cheap laptop for $400
[04:08] <jsgotangco> have you heard of the VIAC3
[04:09] <highvoltage> yep, i'm workign on VIA C3 PC's as we speak.
[04:09] <highvoltage> I have a few hundred of them just behind me :)
[04:09] <jsgotangco> how do you find them
[04:09] <highvoltage> we're going to use them for the digital doorway project
[04:09] <jsgotangco> terminal clients?
[04:09] <highvoltage> CSIR bought them from VIA in taiwan.
[04:10] <highvoltage> well, they were build to be used as thin clients, we're going to use them for diskless fat clients.
[04:11] <jsgotangco> yeah theyre the cheapest x86 you can get in this part of the globe
[04:11] <highvoltage> these are Via C3 1ghz with 512MB RAM, and S3 Savage 3D display cards
[04:11] <highvoltage> quite nice.
[04:13] <jsgotangco> are they real 1GHz?
[04:13] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:14] <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
[04:17] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: as far as I can tell
[04:17] <highvoltage> cpuinfo says 997 mhz
[04:17] <jsgotangco> hmm not bad
[04:20] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: those machines will go into these boxes: http://www.digitaldoorway.co.za/
[04:21] <jsgotangco> are you building kiosks?
[04:22] <highvoltage> kind of. i'm just working on the software side. the metal cages will be built by a contractor.
[04:22] <highvoltage> but yes, these are kiosks.
[04:23] <jsgotangco> but it doesn't have a coin slot right?
[04:23] <jsgotangco> its unrestricted use?
[04:24] <jsgotangco> they have a lot of stuff like that in korea, except that theyre more used for communication and info and you have to put coins or your credit card
[04:24] <jsgotangco> and only has an on screen keyboard
[04:25] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: no, it doesn't have a coin slot, yes, unrestricted use
[04:26] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: interesting
[04:26] <jsgotangco> and they run win2k!

[04:27] <highvoltage> whohoo! a whole win2k license just to browse the web and read e-mail!
[04:27] <highvoltage> people seem to love wasting money.
[04:27] <jsgotangco> yep so there are some terminals that have bsod sometimes
[05:33] <jsgotangco> err what's this meeting?
[05:34] <mhz> jsgotangco: hi
[05:35] <mhz> Development Team
[05:35] <RichEd> mhz: Mr & Mrs RichEd say hi across the atlantic
[05:35] <jsgotangco> ahh i didnt notice it at all
[05:35] <mhz> RichEd: hey!!
[05:35] <RichEd> did you get my greetz ?
[05:35] <mhz> jsgotangco: well, not to worry
[05:35] <RichEd> (mail)
[05:40] <pygi> Burgwork: poke? :)
[05:41] <mhz> RichEd: oh, it took me a while to get it back from Trash :)
[05:42] <mhz> RichEd: yeah, i got it now ;)
[05:42] <RichEd> ??? have you got an autofilter on my mail stright to trash ;)
[05:43] <RichEd> just wanted to make contact via email ...  so that you send me some LAm info to digest
[05:44] <RichEd> no rush ... just passing the ball to you (and off my crowded to do list)
[05:44] <mhz> RichEd: nope, this time, it was me manually marking it for delete 'test..'  That was the only subject, so I usually give priority to the other 500 daily emails, unless I know either the person or the subject is about
[05:44] <isheep> Are you guys the developers of edubuntu?
[05:44] <mhz> RichEd: yeah, good idea, esp. after the netsplit yesterday night
[05:45] <mhz> some are, isheep
[05:45] <isheep> ok was just wondering sorry
[05:45] <mhz> isheep: no sorry
[05:46] <isheep> :)
[05:46] <RichEd> isheep, this is where the developers are often to be found ... when they are not too busy
[05:47] <RichEd> anything you are looking for ? (in specific) ?
[05:47] <isheep> What kind of media programms do you guys use when you're using ubuntu? i mean the ones that are provided whit edubuntu or are there better alternatives?
[05:47] <mhz> RichEd: thx for jumping in
[05:47] <isheep> RichEd: not really just kinda new to IRC/Edubuntu so just looking around:)
[05:48] <RichEd> isheep, this is a Edubuntu channel ... Ubuntu questions are best in #ubuntu
[05:48] <RichEd> (advising ... not being offish :)
[05:48] <mhz> isheep: here's a list of channels related to ubuntu family: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[05:49] <RichEd> and isheep you'll need to be quite specific ... what sort of media ? ... or better, ask what you are trying to acheive ...
[05:49] <isheep> im sorry i ment edubuntu
[05:49] <RichEd> okay ... what are you trying to do media wise ?
[05:49] <isheep> movies divx ect
[05:50] <RichEd> okay ... then try something like: google [movies divx Ubuntu +site:ubuntu.com]
[05:50] <RichEd> most of the hardcore people are in a dev meeting right now ...
[05:50] <RichEd> but specific google searches give good results if you add the +site tag
[05:51] <isheep> cool thanks never knew about that tag
[05:51] <ogra> !restricted
[05:51] <ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
[05:51] <ogra> isheep, ^^^
[05:51] <isheep> but i was more wondering what your 'hardcore' guys use..
[05:52] <mhz> well, i am no hardcore guy, but i try to stay 'free as in freedom'
[05:52] <mhz> even if it is a bit painfull
[05:52] <isheep> hehe
[05:55] <isheep> is the meeting for members only? i would like to see what the topics are :)
[05:56] <mhz> isheep: jump in
[05:56] <ogra> isheep, its the distro development weekly status meeting ...
[05:56] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistroTeamMeeting20060720 has the status info
[05:56] <mhz> isheep: all meetings held on #ubuntu-meeting are public
[05:56] <mhz> isheep: however, it is faster to read that url
[05:57] <isheep> faster?
[06:01] <mhz> hmm, faster to get to know what the status is
[06:02] <jsgotangco> hardcore eh?
[06:02] <mhz> jsgotangco: dont
[06:02] <mhz> :D
[06:03] <jsgotangco> user interfaces! who needs them!
[06:03] <mhz> lol
[06:03] <mhz> GNOME does
[06:03] <mhz> so I am not much of a reference
[06:03] <highvoltage> what is GFS again?
[06:04] <ogra> global filesystem
[06:04] <highvoltage> mhz: why ion2 and not ion3?
[06:04] <highvoltage> ogra: thanks
[06:04] <jsgotangco> hmm the bed is calling me
[06:05] <mhz> highvoltage: oh, I just apt-got it long ago :D
[06:05] <ogra> jsgotangco, and ? do you pick up ?
[06:05] <highvoltage> must have been long ago :)
[06:05] <mhz> have not upgraded since then
[06:05] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: hit it ;)
[06:05] <jsgotangco> im having this weird new age conversation on y!m with this yoga instructor
[06:05] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:08] <isheep> what motu?
[06:08] <highvoltage> isheep: are you asking what a Motu is?
[06:09] <isheep> yeah sorry typo
[06:09] <highvoltage> Motu stands for Masters of the Universe
[06:09] <highvoltage> the Universe is Ubuntu's community supported software repository
[06:10] <isheep> ok thanks
[06:10] <highvoltage> often incorrectly refered to as the unsupported repository
[06:10] <highvoltage> motu's are responsible for keeping the Universe in shape.
[06:10] <isheep> pretty big responsiblity then
[06:12] <Petaris> isheep: no kidding, one oops and a sun could explode or a blackhole could suck up the Earth ;p
[06:12] <isheep> lol
[06:12] <RichEd> or even the unreported suppository ;)
[06:13] <isheep> is kamio the guy that arranges everything in #ubuntu-meeting? i dont know the english name for it sorry
[06:13] <mhz> Petaris: hehehe, nice
[06:14] <mhz> isheep: where are you from?
[06:14] <isheep> the netherlands
[06:14] <mhz> oh, send me some CDs !
[06:14] <mhz> just kidding
[06:14] <isheep> hehe
[06:14] <Petaris> mhz: :)
[06:14] <isheep> first guy that diddnt ask me to send weed ;)
[06:15] <Petaris> haha
[06:15] <isheep> honestly :P
[06:15] <mhz> nope, weed can be gotten here in LAtinamerica, and nope, I dont do weed, I just do CDs :D
[06:15] <isheep> hehehe
[06:16] <ogra> mhz, dont they burn really awful if you put them into tobacco ?
[06:16] <mhz> LOL!
[06:16] <isheep> what kind of "people" are using edubuntu
[06:16] <mhz> mostly, Labs at schools
[06:16] <mhz> or teachers, or parents
[06:17] <isheep> you guys arrent using edubuntu?
[06:17] <mhz> personally, my 2 kids use Edubuntu apps, at least 3 times a week
[06:17] <mhz> hehe, yeah! I am
[06:17] <isheep> hehe well why edubuntu en not ubuntu then?
[06:18] <mhz> because, the approach of edubuntu is best to my needs
[06:18] <mhz> edubuntu is aimed towards education purposes
[06:18] <isheep> ok
[06:18] <mhz> I teach old people to use the mouse, the PC,
[06:19] <isheep> nice
[06:19] <mhz> I envourage young learners to use many interesting apps
[06:19] <mhz> encourage
[06:19] <mhz> plus, I need the LTSP fact
[06:20] <isheep> what media apps for movies/music do you advise for someone who's kinda new to the pc? (me) honestly first time i have internet :)
[06:21] <mhz> one = best one
[06:21] <Petaris> isheep: I have one edubuntu lab installed (25 clients) and one being implemented now (25 clients)
[06:21] <Petaris> :)
[06:21] <isheep> hm ok but do you sugest anything?
[06:21] <isheep> Petaris: nice!
[06:23] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i'll give mrs lopez an intro & nudge email tomorrow to answer when she is back from NY City
[06:23] <RichEd> we must look at next steps - ( other than the Linux conference proposal)
[06:24] <RichEd> so until tomorrow edubunteros ... it's goodbye from Africa
[06:24] <isheep> RichEd: have fun :)
[06:25] <pygi> enjoy RichEd
[06:26] <ogra> ciao RichEd
[06:26] <rodarvus> RichEd: enjoy
[06:26] <RichEd> will send greetz to janeW from all
[06:26] <rodarvus> this developers meeting was quite confusing, without the pastes.
[06:27] <rodarvus> ogra^^
[06:27] <rodarvus> :)
[06:27] <rodarvus> sorry for not giving context
[06:27] <RichEd> sorry ... just a quickie ... anyone going to the marketing meeting tonight ?
[06:27] <ogra> rodarvus, yeah, i didnt like it at all
[06:27] <ogra> RichEd, whats a marketing meeting ?
[06:28] <ogra> i silbs leading it ?
[06:28] <ogra> *is
[06:28] <RichEd> ogra: well then they are not doing a good job of self promotion ;)
[06:28] <ogra> hmm, the fridge hanst one set either
[06:29] <ogra> RichEd, not even with scheduling it seems :)
[06:29] <RichEd> ah ... wrong date ...
[06:29] <ogra> yeah, its tomorrow :)
[06:29] <ogra> nah, tats not worth it :)
[06:30] <RichEd> quietly even :P
[06:30] <ogra> :)
[06:31] <RichEd> quite quietly
[06:33] <mhz> RichEd: i am going to Marketing Meeting
[06:34] <RichEd> it is tomorrow not tonight ?
[06:35] <ogra> according to the calendar its tomorrow
[06:35] <RichEd> okay tx
[06:40] <mhz> oh, yeah
[06:40] <mhz> tomorrow, firday at 15:00 in Chile
[06:41] <mhz> th1a: hi there
[06:41] <th1a> hi mhz
[06:42] <th1a> That's what I do.
[06:42] <mhz> yeah, and I am glad you do it
[06:42] <th1a> I just got back from the first SchoolTool sprint, which was a raging success.
[06:42] <highvoltage> yay!
[06:43] <mhz> ogra: nothing to do but, yesterday I was "evangelising' about the use and power of python (you know I am totally ignorant about it) to a programmer. I missed not having an url I could reccomend for him to know about what he can do with python regarding DBs and other impressive stuff
[06:44] <mhz> th1a: congrats!
[06:44] <th1a> Thanks.  The goal for the day is to write up the results and lessons in more detail.
[06:45] <th1a> We basically managed to do a long-needed redesign of navigation in the web interface the first day and implement a big chunk of it in the second.
[06:45] <mhz> wow
[06:45] <mhz> sounds lot of work
[06:45] <mhz> how many people in the sprint
[06:45] <mhz> ?
[06:46] <th1a> Well, two of our core developers,
[06:46] <th1a> plus two developers who work on CanDo, which is a competency tracking application for SchoolTool.
[06:46] <cbx33> th1a, sounds great
[06:47] <th1a> All the CanDo developers are students or former students of Jeff Elkner, who has also been somewhat involved with Edubuntu.
[06:47] <mhz> yup
[06:47] <th1a> We also had three of his younger (14 & 15 yr. old) students there.
[06:48] <mhz> CanDo? ooh, I forgot about it
[06:48] <th1a> We did the sprint at a regional grassroots conference for open source in schools:  http://nelinux.net
[06:49] <th1a> It is organized by Matt Oquist, who you might also know from Software Freedom Day and other project.
[06:49] <th1a> projects.
[06:49] <th1a> So we got some feedback from other conference attendees at the beginning of the conference and presented our work at the end.
[06:50] <th1a> It seemed like a great way to do a sprint & get teachers & school IT people engaged in the project.
[06:50] <mhz> COOL! idea
[06:50] <th1a> Yes, it worked even better than I'd hoped.
[06:51] <mhz> gee! I just hope soon, we have many people doing interesting stuff in Latinamerica (hopefully in Chile) so we can get together and do stuff like that
[06:51] <th1a> It is the first time I've really felt like I've had a breakthrough in how to get open source hackers and educators working together.
[06:52] <th1a> Plus it really pushes the sprinters to want to have something substantial done to show off ;-)
[06:52] <mhz> indeed, very good idea
[07:34] <cbx33> hi all
[07:34] <cbx33> ping LaserJock
[07:35] <bddebian> Hello cbx33
[07:35] <cbx33> hey bddebian
[07:35] <cbx33> how are you
[07:42] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[07:47] <cbx33> hi LaserJock
[07:47] <cbx33> howz it going
[07:52] <LaserJock> well, I
[07:52] <LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to do a calendar on the wiki
[07:52] <LaserJock> or somewhere
[07:53] <cbx33> LP does a calendar doesn't it?
[07:53] <pygi> cbx33: aha
[07:54] <cbx33> what ?
[07:54] <cbx33> :p
[07:54] <LaserJock> cbx33: not really the way we need
[07:55] <LaserJock> I can make my own personal calendar
[07:55] <cbx33> ok.....sorry
[07:55] <LaserJock> but I need more of a collaborative one
[07:55] <cbx33> when i have downlaoded a dsc, orig.tar.gz and diff
[07:56] <cbx33> how do i make the source tree so I can build the binary pacakge?
[07:56] <cbx33> debuild <what> ?
[07:57] <crimsun> you've downloaded the source package already, so all you need to do is pbuild/sbuild it.
[07:57] <crimsun> pbuilder build foo.dsc
[07:57] <crimsun> debuild is only relevant from within an extracted source package
[07:58] <crimsun> (you can extract it with: dpkg-source -x foo.dsc)
[07:59] <cbx33> ah ok
[08:00] <cbx33> ah ok
[08:00] <cbx33> thanks crimsun
[08:03] <highvoltage> ogra: are you familiar with a German organisation called 50 from North?
[08:05] <juliux> highvoltage, hi, do you have a link?
[08:08] <highvoltage> juliux: unfortunately no, I tried googling it too.
[08:08] <juliux> highvoltage, ok
[08:08] <highvoltage> at the guest house I'm staying, is a guy called Johannes, I don't know his surname
[08:09] <highvoltage> he's from and organisation called 50 from North, and open source organisation in Germany, he says they're planning a big conference in Switzerland later this year.
[08:09] <juliux> never heard anything about them
[08:10] <Petaris> highvoltage: ask him for a url
[08:10] <Petaris> :)
[08:10] <juliux> highvoltage, which url is his e-mail account?
[08:10] <Petaris> fiftyfromnorth.org or something
[08:12] <highvoltage> ok, i'll ask him tomorrow
[08:12] <Petaris> highvoltage
[08:13] <Petaris> http://www.52north.org/
[08:13] <highvoltage> juliux: I don't know, I just talked to him the first time tonight :)
[08:13] <Petaris> 52north
[08:13] <Petaris> :)
[08:13] <highvoltage> aaaah
[08:13] <juliux> hm mnster is not in the north of germany ;)
[08:13] <highvoltage> i remembered it was '50 to north' or '50 from north' or something :)
[08:13] <highvoltage> yeah he said he's at Meunster university
[08:14] <juliux> hm strange there are from  germany but they dont have a germany website
[08:15] <Petaris> netcraft says its german
[08:15] <Petaris> er, located in Germany
[08:15] <highvoltage> yes, I even searched or the site with google.de and found nothing, then again, I searched for the wrong things (ended up with 50 cent ringtones, etc)
[08:15] <juliux> Petaris, the site is not in german ;)
[08:15] <Petaris> no
[08:15] <Petaris> its not
[08:15] <Petaris> but
[08:15] <juliux> highvoltage, and what does he want from you?
[08:16] <Petaris> http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.52north.org
[08:16] <highvoltage> juliux: nothing, we just chatted, we were at the same table during dinner
[08:16] <juliux> ah
[08:16] <Burgwork> pygi, pong
[08:16] <Petaris> I like their website design
[08:17] <cbx33> ogra, your rsyncer script has problems
[08:17] <cbx33> :S
[08:17] <Petaris> FOSS4G2006 - Free and Open Source Software for Geoinfromatics: September 12 - 15, 2006 in Lausanne, Switzerland.
[08:17] <highvoltage> juliux: i talk to a lot of people who want nothing from me, and I want nothing from them, I'm a bit of a compulsive friend maker :)
[08:17] <juliux> highvoltage, hehe
[08:20] <ogra> cbx33, ?
[08:20] <ogra> cbx33, i used it the last 5 days very excessive :)
[08:20] <cbx33> :S
[08:20] <pygi> Burgwork:hey, how are you?
[08:21] <Burgwork> pygi, not bad
[08:21] <pygi> Burgwork: got response :)
[08:21] <pygi> End of his semester, he will work hard to catch up with things
[08:21] <pygi> he will also report to dholbach
[08:21] <pygi> talked with dholbach, told him that
[08:21] <Burgwork> perfect
[08:21] <pygi> o my, I started doing reports !!!
[08:22] <cbx33> ogra, pm'd you my problems
[08:22] <cbx33> hehe
[08:22] <highvoltage> cbx33: where can i download it? is it in universe yet?
[08:22] <cbx33> not yet
[08:22] <Petaris> I need to figure out this scroll wheel issue
[08:22] <cbx33> and good job, it doesn't seem to work with the new rsyncer script
[08:23] <Petaris> If I move the scroll wheel on my mouse the cursor flys to the right side of the screen
[08:23] <Petaris> its odd
[08:24] <highvoltage> are you using ps2 or imps2 driver?
[08:24] <Petaris> usually it either works or doesn't, but doesn't usually send the cursor flying
[08:24] <highvoltage> that happened to me previously with a plain ps2 driver
[08:24] <Petaris> explorerps2
[08:24] <Petaris> should I change it to just ps/2
[08:24] <highvoltage> perhaps the imps2
[08:25] <highvoltage> hmmm.. I wonder if that's still in use
[08:25] <highvoltage> my xorg.conf says ExplorerPS/2 too.
[08:26] <highvoltage> Petaris: I don't know anymore, seems like things have changed :)
[08:26] <highvoltage> i suppose trying another driver would be worth while though.
[08:27] <mhz_work> Petaris: yeah...have had same issue
[08:27] <mhz_work> only in ubuntu flavours
[08:27] <mhz_work> well, maybe, it is xorg thing
[08:27] <mhz_work> and it was Xfree time
[08:29] <Petaris> hrm
[08:29] <Petaris> does the same with imps/2 and ps/2
[08:29] <Petaris> odd
[08:29] <mhz_work> Petaris: and when using a brand of mouse 'omega' (ps/2 optical cheap model), if i touchded the mouse, it would fly away and no respond anymore
[08:31] <Petaris> hrm
[08:31] <Petaris> very odd
[09:36] <LaserJock> or maybe I should have asked here
[09:36] <highvoltage> hi LaserJock
[09:36] <LaserJock> hi highvoltage
[09:37] <highvoltage> what should you have asked here?
[09:37] <LaserJock> see -devel
[09:37] <highvoltage> i'm not on -devel atm
[09:38] <LaserJock> tough luck then :)
[09:39] <LaserJock> debian isn't happy abut some ltsp changes
[09:39] <highvoltage> aah
[09:39] <highvoltage> are they ever? :)
[09:39] <pygi> !!!
[09:39] <ubotu> I know nothing about !! - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
[09:40] <highvoltage> LaserJock: you have a link? or was it in a mailing list?
[09:40] <pygi> ergh, this bot always do that
[09:40] <LaserJock> pygi: you need to say something before the !!!! ;-)
[09:40] <LaserJock> highvoltage: have no idea, ogra just mentioned it on -devel
[09:40] <pygi> LaserJock: you mean after? :p
[09:41] <LaserJock> before
[09:41] <highvoltage> i'm interested to see what they're unhappy about, since ogra and mdz and crew were so cautios to do everythin in-line with debian policy
[09:41] <highvoltage> ~
[09:41] <highvoltage> ~
[09:41] <pygi> HM,oki, then some things changed :P
[09:41] <ogra> highvoltage, see #ltsp
[09:41] <ogra> the discussion of the last 30 min
[09:42] <highvoltage> ok
[09:42] <LaserJock> pygi: you need to say somethine before the !!! so the bot doesn't think you are talking to it
[09:42] <ogra> vagrantc isnt happy about copying the sshkeys on every ifup we run
[09:42] <pygi> LaserJock: ofcourse, ofcourse :)
[09:43] <highvoltage> i see
[09:44] <highvoltage> ogra: but there's not any security risk, is there? and it doesn't break any debian policy either.
[09:44] <highvoltage> it's just a bit weird, and ltsp sometimes call for some weirdness.
[09:46] <ogra> nope there is no risk ...
[09:46] <ogra> apart from bugs that might be in the code ...
[09:56] <mhz_work> highvoltage: have you seen the EPIC video about Googlezon?
[10:03] <pygi> HedgeMage: poke
[10:04] <HedgeMage> hiya pygi
[10:04] <pygi> whats wrong with your jabber? :P
[10:05] <HedgeMage> PEBKAC
[11:13] <Burgwork> ogra, do we have any specs for session cleanup and timing?
[11:13] <ogra> timing ?
[11:14] <Burgwork> controlling time
[11:15] <ogra> you mean logging out a user after a specific given time ?
[11:15] <Burgwork> yep
[11:15] <ogra> i have a tool from linus for that ...
[11:15] <Burgwork> via integrating timeoutd
[11:16] <ogra> but its not licensed
[11:16] <Burgwork> timeoutd is in the debian repos
[11:16] <ogra> and he never answered my request ti give me a license ...
[11:16] <ogra> hrm ...
[11:16] <ogra> i'm not really fond of adding a new daemon for such a simple task ...
[11:16] <ogra> also thats big enough to require a spec, s no edgy material
[11:16] <Burgwork> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/admin/timeoutd
[11:17] <Burgwork> yep
[11:17] <Burgwork> I understand that
[11:17] <Burgwork> ultimately, you need a daemon to do session cleanup, however
[11:17] <Burgwork> and process teardown, etc.
[11:17] <ogra> does that work in any way with ssh tunneled sessions ?
[11:17] <ogra> doesnt seem like
[11:18] <Burgwork> hmm
[11:18] <Burgwork> lets talk more indepth at the next ubuntu conference
[11:18] <ogra>  timeoutd can restrict local users, local X11-users and remote users via
[11:18] <ogra>  telnet/SSH for a maximum of their session, max. day, idle or no login at
[11:18] <ogra>  all.
[11:18] <ogra> aha
[11:18] <ogra> so it can
[11:18] <Burgwork> we can have a bof on edubuntu in a public computer environment
[11:18] <ogra> that should become a SCP feature
[11:19] <Burgwork> yep
[11:20] <Burgwork> can scp control what profiles are assigned to waht students? (via pessulus and sabayon)?
[11:21] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/StudentControlPanelCompletion
[11:22] <Burgwork> so many things, so little time
[11:23] <Burgwork> I also want to talk about sane ways for anonymous use
[11:24] <Burgwork> currently DS does not create a user for each person that logs in
[11:25] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gdm-guest-login ?
[11:28] <Burgwork> perfect
[11:29] <ogra> not approved
[11:30] <LaserJock> ogra: I emailed one of the sabayon admins about what I'd like to do to see how feasible it is and possibly get some direction/help
[11:30] <LaserJock> s/admins/developers/
[11:30] <ogra> and ?
[11:30] <LaserJock> haven't gotten a reply yet
[11:31] <LaserJock> I sent it off this morning
[11:31] <LaserJock> I'm a little concerned with the lack of activity, but that could be just because everybody is busy at red hat
[11:32] <ogra> well, it should still be maintained
[11:32] <LaserJock> It seems like a feature they'd be interested in having so I hope I can get them excited and I can provide patches
[11:33] <LaserJock> but I'm don't think I can realisticlly do the whole thing by myself
[11:34] <LaserJock> it seems like it will require some pretty large changes (handling more than one profile/user)
[11:34] <ogra> well, lest see how far we get with upstream ... else lets look at our package :)
[11:35] <LaserJock> ogra: I agree
[11:44] <mhz> ogra: when you build an edubuntu cd,
[11:45] <mhz> how do you tell (before) the total size it will have
[11:45] <mhz> ?
[11:45] <ogra> have a look at the germinate program
[11:46] <ogra> (usually i'm not using it and guess by experience, but that tool is able to tell you exact sizes)
[11:48] <mhz> ogra: okis, i'll take a look at
[11:51] <mhz> oh, germinate does use python-apt
[11:51] <mhz> python, python, python
[11:51] <mhz> it is everywhere
[12:01] <mhz> tsktsktsktsk
[12:02] <mhz> highvoltage: still awake?
[12:04] <mhz> ogra: http://www.unabvirtual.edu.co/epic/index.html
[12:12] <LaserJock> mhz: that's because python rocks ;-)
[12:13] <mhz> LaserJock: yeah, eventhough I am python (or any coding) ignorant, I know python rocks


[01:20] <cody-somerville> mdke, moinmoin wiki supports exporting docbook, is that an option?
[01:30] <dsas_> cody-somerville: that has been mentioned before I think. I'm not sure if there was a problem with the docbook produced or we were running an old version of moin or something.
[01:30] <dsas_> this was several cycles ago.
[01:30] <dsas_> probably worth investigating again
[05:51] <Atamira> anyone awake?
[08:11] <mdke> cody-somerville: the export is a bit dodgy so needs some work, but it might be possible to improve it. I think it's worth investigating again as dsas_ says
[08:11] <cody-somerville> mdke, I did some research last night briefly on the topic
[08:15] <mdke> cody-somerville: how did it go?
[08:16] <mdke> the main info is listed here: http://moinmo.in/DocBook
[08:16] <mdke> it was a gsoc project that did most of the work going forward, we'd need to try out 1.7 to see whether it is suitable