[00:44] <Rocket2DMn> im not able to do the search to see what pages are marked with Tags
[00:45] <Rocket2DMn> which pretty much ruins the point
[00:46] <Rocket2DMn> or maybe its b/c nothing is actually tagged yet...
[00:50] <Rocket2DMn> ok it just refreshes the Tag page if you try to search for a tag that hasnt been used yet
[16:56] <tedg> Hello, I posted a message to the mailing list that is now in the moderation queue.  Could someone forward it through please?
[21:12] <technomensc1> good afternoon.
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> technomensc1, i thought CategoryApplications and related was something Duncan Lithgow created b/c he didn't know about CategorySoftware
[21:42] <technomensc1> I've lost track
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> i tagged the app stuff for deletion
[21:43] <technomensc1> that's why I brought it to the mailling list
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> not everything will have Tags, I think the Tags are only for the doc-team's and other contributors' benefit
[21:44] <technomensc1> I agree.
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> other categories that are based on the page content and purpose should be kept
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> to a degree anyway, there are too many, which is what we are trying to slim down
[21:45] <technomensc1> ::nod:: I was trying to do the best I could with that
[21:45] <Rocket2DMn> in the table you  made, where you said "Converted Category Links to Tags" - is this like a status column?
[21:45] <technomensc1> I'd like that to be
[21:45] <technomensc1> the idea was for the articles that need the docs team tags only
[21:46] <Rocket2DMn> OK, ill expand on that page a bit, i just got back from the gym, so i need to clean up and eat
[21:46] <Rocket2DMn> ill ping you when i get back
[21:46] <technomensc1> if I'm arround.  please feel free.  it was more of a free flowing of ideaas
[21:46] <Rocket2DMn> can do
[21:57] <mdke> technomensc1: so, in the section "Documentation Team Categories where no tags currently exist", are you proposing new tags?
[21:59] <mdke> technomensc1: I think we can discard certainly "CategoryDocumentation" (because the whole wiki is documentation) and the Template related pages, which aren't really categories at all and are a whole different concept
[21:59] <technomensc1> if there is a kind of agreement, than I was going to move that proposal to the tags page, yes
[21:59] <technomensc1> fine with me.  you guys have been at this longer than I
[22:00] <mdke> technomensc1: as for the others, I think they are covered by existing tags, to be honest - I don't think they merit new tags. The more tags we have, the more confusing things are
[22:00] <mdke> we need to strive to keep things simple, I think
[22:00] <technomensc1> well I wasn't able to figure out which would correspond with which
[22:00] <mdke> obviously, if there is genuinely a need for a new tag, we should consider it - is there any in that list that you think are very important and not covered at all by the existing ones?
[22:00] <technomensc1> to be honest, it was more asking, which to pair up with which tag
[22:01] <mdke> gotcha
[22:01] <technomensc1> I needed help
[22:01] <mdke> ok, let's take them in turn
[22:01] <mdke> CategoryNoParent - there's no requirement for pages to have parents, so that can go
[22:02] <mdke> CategoryNotDocumentation is the same as Tag/Moving
[22:02] <mdke> CategoryDevelopment - ditto
[22:02] <technomensc1> we have the moving tag
[22:02] <technomensc1> for between community docs and team docs
[22:02] <technomensc1> do we need the other way around
[22:03] <mdke> well, the team wiki doesn't have tags, it's outside our domain really
[22:03] <mdke> but we use CategoryDocumentation to mark pages on the team wiki which could be moved into the help wiki
[22:03] <mdke> carrying on down the list...
[22:03] <technomensc1> rephrase- WERE using till we decided to move to tags :)
[22:04] <mdke> no, you're not following me
[22:04] <mdke> the tag system is intended to be used on the help wiki
[22:04] <mdke> it's not intended to be used on the team wiki
[22:05] <mdke> for identifying pages in the team wiki which are documentation and which could be moved into the help wiki, we have used (and can continue to use) CategoryDocumentation
[22:05] <mdke> you're clear on the distinction between the help wiki and the team wiki right? (I ask because a lot of people are confused by the distinction)
[22:05] <technomensc1> the help community wiki is for technical documentation related to the using of the os
[22:06] <technomensc1> the team wiki is for how we manage those docs
[22:06] <technomensc1> and communicate with each other
[22:06] <mdke> right, and also for all other Ubuntu teams, like the development team, marketing team etc
[22:06] <technomensc1> ::nod::
[22:06] <mdke> cool
[22:06] <mdke> ok back to the list
[22:07] <mdke> CategoryDiscontinued is the same as Tag/Unsupported (or Tag/Deletion in extreme cases)
[22:07] <mdke> I think that deals with all of em
[22:08] <technomensc1> alright.  now, there was a bit of confusion on my part between category software and category applications
[22:10] <mdke> ok
[22:11] <mdke> hmm, why have those Debian pages been moved to the help wiki, they totally don't belong there
[22:11] <technomensc1> I haven't touched them.  I've only been working on this discussion page
[22:12] <technomensc1> unless you are talking about Reassign/Update/Remove
[22:13] <mdke> no, nothing to do with you, I just noticed there was a CategoryDebian which isn't needed
[22:13] <technomensc1> LOL.  yea, I noticed that myself.  I was clueless what we should do with it
[22:14]  * mdke cleans up
[22:15] <technomensc1> mind if I quote you on my notes on that page?
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> hehe yeah team wiki...
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> i mentioned it on the email list last spring, the Beginners Team is using the help wiki to stay organized
[22:16] <mdke> technomensc1: in which bit?
[22:16] <Rocket2DMn> the basic structure was already in place when i showed up, so i just expanded on it
[22:16] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah, I know, the WikiTeam pages are there too, but they should both really be moved
[22:16] <technomensc1> the category tags
[22:16] <technomensc1> I mean category titles that we agree weren't needed
[22:16] <duncan-nz> technomensc1, ping
[22:16] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, if they really need to be moved, i can work on bringing them over sometime
[22:17] <mdke> technomensc1: I think the "Documentation Team Categories where no tags currently exist" section can just be removed from that page, to be honest, if you're happy with my explanation above
[22:17] <duncan-nz> technomensc1, could save the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCategory/PageDiscussion so I can correct a small typo?
[22:18] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'd like to do the WikiTeam bit myself, because I've been thinking a bit recently about the best way to do it, and I want to try and blend it in with the DocumentationTeam pages. But if you could do the Beginners Team pages (if that team is happy with it), then that would be great
[22:18] <duncan-nz> technomensc1, I mean please save that page so I can edit it for a moment.
[22:18] <mdke> hi duncan-nz
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> duncan-nz, i wouldnt worry about typoes at the moment, the pag eis still undergoing a lot of work
[22:18] <technomensc1> duncan, I need to address the concerns made by me and matt first
[22:18] <duncan-nz> technomensc1, it's a necessary one to stop out list of categories adding the page to each category.
[22:18] <duncan-nz> technomensc1, ok
[22:18] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, ill work on moving the structure in a month or two, the BT needs a big heads up well in advance
[22:18] <technomensc1> and you removed the checklist which was quite a necessaity to the page
[22:19] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, that's perfectly understandable
[22:19] <Rocket2DMn> hey what happened, the page lost the structure we had...
[22:19] <duncan-nz> technomensc1, when you can a chance please change CategorySoftwareCleanup to ``Category``Software``Cleanup thanks.
[22:20] <technomensc1> rocket2dmn, that would be me.....
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> ok go ahead and do w/e you will with the page
[22:20] <technomensc1> but I'm still trying to find out who removed the checklist
[22:20] <mdke> guys, let's get a bit of perspective about this page before we get too attached to it
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> technomensc1, i got an email update on the page, i think duncan-nz did
[22:20] <technomensc1> LOL
[22:20] <duncan-nz> I've also edited on top of someone about an hour ago. I think the notice that someone else has the page needs to be much clearer! I didn't notice it at all.
[22:21]  * Rocket2DMn enters perspective mode
[22:21] <mdke> the reason I tried to play down an attempt to fix a definitive list of categories, is that it's not really possible
[22:21] <mdke> people introduce new categories on the wiki all the time and there will always be new ones springing up around the place
[22:22] <mdke> what we need to ensure is that the cleanup Tags that we have introduced can replace the existing cleanup tags, leaving the "subject-matter" tags to develop naturally, as they will
[22:22] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, agreed, but how do we handle that?  i thought part of the process was to clean out some of those weirder mostly unused tags
[22:22] <technomensc1> and unused categories that make no sense
[22:22] <duncan-nz> there are only 20 pages left in the cleanup tags.
[22:22] <mdke> wow
[22:23] <mdke> that's cool
[22:23] <duncan-nz> yup, someone's been hard at work.
[22:23] <technomensc1> that cannot be right unless he means changing from category cleanup to tag cleanup
[22:23] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, clearing out won't hurt, but the aim of that discussion page seems to be rather wider than that
[22:23] <duncan-nz> that's what I mean
[22:24] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, i think one of our issues is that we don't have a description of _exactly_ what it is that we are trying to do
[22:24] <Rocket2DMn> difficult to have a proposal without a mission
[22:24] <duncan-nz> oh, sorry I wrote tags, I meant CategorySoftwareCleanup and CategoryApplicationsCleanup - not quite the smae at all...
[22:24] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: how about this - "to add the various Tags which we have to the pages that they apply to" :)
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> duncan-nz, i would tag those two categories with the new ContentCleanup tag, sinec we are getting rid of CategoryCleanup, too
[22:25] <technomensc1> I thought that was the original plan all along
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, yes, but also to clean shop on the existing Categories that they are replacing
[22:25] <duncan-nz> Rocket2DMn, ok
[22:25] <Rocket2DMn> duncan-nz, check with mdke on my suggestion
[22:25] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: i don't understand the concept of tagging a category page :)
[22:26] <mdke> (re your suggestion)
[22:26] <technomensc1> LOL.  here is my thought process and let's see if we are on the same page.....
[22:26] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, arent we trying to get rid of the usage of CategoryCleanup and CategoryNeedsExpansion in favor of tags
[22:26] <duncan-nz> Rocket2DMn, I've just been using tags and deleting the link to Category$somethingCleanup
[22:26] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, absolutely right
[22:26] <mdke> duncan-nz: also right
[22:26] <Rocket2DMn> duncan-nz, +1
[22:27] <mdke> ah, we still have 300 pages in CategoryCleanup, I misunderstood duncan-nz earlier when he referred to 20 pages
[22:27] <Rocket2DMn> I think right now CategoryCleanup is a bit heavy, i will have the BT wiki FG start helping with that
[22:27] <technomensc1> and that was why I had put the checklist on the discussion page.  so we could track when we had finished converting the categorylinks to tags
[22:27] <duncan-nz> mdke, my statement was misleading
[22:27] <Rocket2DMn> lets sideline CategoryCleanup for right now
[22:27] <mdke> duncan-nz: I've got it now :)
[22:28] <mdke> technomensc1: there isn't a need for a checklist... you just look at the Category page and it shows you how many pages it has left in it, or am I misunderstanding your objective?
[22:28] <Rocket2DMn> NeedsExpansion is much smaller, those can be converted to the Needs Expansion tag
[22:28] <technomensc1> would everyone agree that we need to finish with the tagging before we even think about categories?
[22:28] <duncan-nz> Hej I'm off to bed. But it's great to be able to see and help with some real progress aon the http://help.ubuntu.com/ wiki
[22:28] <Rocket2DMn> gnight duncan-nz , thanks for stopping by
[22:28] <duncan-nz> technomensc1, perhaps, but the page we're playing on now is about categories.
[22:28] <mdke> night
[22:28] <duncan-nz> night all.
[22:28] <mdke> technomensc1: well, part of the exercise is to remove the category label when you add the tag, but I think I know what you mean
[22:29] <duncan-nz> (I'm in denmark so it is actually late)
[22:29] <mdke> I agree that we should forget about "subject-matter" categories for now
[22:29] <Rocket2DMn> technomensc1, they are tied together, the Tag system was created to replace some of the Categories because categories arent as visible or descriptive
[22:29] <technomensc1> ::nod:::
[22:29] <Rocket2DMn> so here's how i see it:
[22:29] <mdke> ok, we're on the same page right now
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> 1) replace all CAtegoryNeedsExpansion pages with Needs Expansion tag - this we can do immediately
[22:30] <technomensc1> same with categorydeletion
[22:30] <technomensc1> and categorymoving
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> 2) have a wiki admin go through and delete the appropriate pages under CategoryDeletion - all future deletion requests should go under the Deletion tag
[22:30] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: hold for a sec
[22:30] <Rocket2DMn> (please be careful not to delete pages that link to deletion but arent marked ot be removed)
[22:30]  * Rocket2DMn holds
[22:31] <mdke> that's helpful. While we're on it, let's just identify all the other categories that fall under your (1)
[22:31] <technomensc1> mdke, would you be willing to go onto the Tag page and demonstrate what we were talking about regarding which category corresponds to which tags
[22:31] <mdke> yep, let's make a list
[22:31] <mdke> so, needsexpansion
[22:31] <mdke> moving
[22:31] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, CategoryCleanup will fall under it, but it is so large that i think we can wait until we have the rest under control
[22:32] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: no, sorry
[22:32] <Rocket2DMn> no?
[22:32] <mdke> in (1), we're talking about categories which exactly correspond to a tag
[22:32] <mdke> i.e. the easy bit
[22:32] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, those do
[22:32] <mdke> right, so we'll come on to CategoryCleanup later
[22:32] <mdke> I just want to make a list of (1) categories
[22:32] <technomensc1> that's the hardest, so that's last
[22:33] <Rocket2DMn> in fact CategoryCleanup matches a few tags - Content cleanup, Style Cleanup, Unsupported Version, and Page Too Long
[22:33] <mdke> yes, exactly. that's why I said hold so we can talk about the easy ones
[22:33] <Rocket2DMn> ok good, we're on the same page then
[22:33] <mdke> so, NeedsExpansion, Moving, Discontinued, NotDocumentation all correspond to existing tags. Any others?
[22:33] <mdke> I'm writing this down so we can have a little plan of action
[22:34] <technomensc1> getting back to your list.....shouldn't you also post the categories to remove, like noparent,development,discontinues
[22:34] <Rocket2DMn> thats another step technomensc1
[22:34] <mdke> yes, that can be (3)
[22:34] <mdke> anything else for (1)?
[22:34] <Rocket2DMn> is somebody recording this on the PageDiscussion right now?
[22:34] <technomensc1> oh, we're still talking about 1
[22:34] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm writing it down
[22:34] <Rocket2DMn> groovy
[22:35] <technomensc1> well there was the obvious deletion mdke
[22:35] <technomensc1> that's not on your list
[22:35] <mdke> yes, let's add that
[22:36] <mdke> any others?
[22:36] <Rocket2DMn> can you list the ones you have please
[22:36] <technomensc1> the library here closes in about 20 min, so that's what I've got left
[22:36] <mdke> 22:33:28 < mdke> so, NeedsExpansion, Moving, Discontinued, NotDocumentation all correspond to existing tags. Any others?
[22:36] <mdke> +Deletion
[22:36] <mdke> technomensc1: that should be about right :)
[22:37] <technomensc1> at this moment, that's all I can think of.  any more and I'll send to the mailing list
[22:37] <Rocket2DMn> not documentation -> moving tag?
[22:37] <nixternal> whoa it is the mastah himeself!
[22:37] <nixternal> how's it going mdke?
[22:37] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah
[22:37] <mdke> nixternal: good thanks, you?
[22:37] <Rocket2DMn> ok lets move on then
[22:37] <nixternal> busy busy busy :)
[22:37] <nixternal> work is killing my time
[22:37] <mdke> :)
[22:37] <technomensc1> step 2 is getting rid of the doc categories that are pointless......
[22:37] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok, go ahead with your (3)
[22:37] <technomensc1> what about 2
[22:37] <Rocket2DMn> what was 3 going to be?
[22:38] <mdke> ok, timeout
[22:38] <Rocket2DMn> lo
[22:38] <technomensc1> LOL
[22:38] <Rocket2DMn> i think you combined 1 and 2
[22:38] <mdke> Rocket2DMn's (2) was the Deletion tag, which we've dealt with
[22:38] <mdke> so (2) disappears into (1)
[22:38] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[22:38] <mdke> anyone crosseyed yet?
[22:38] <Rocket2DMn> so now, new (2)
[22:38] <technomensc1> getting there
[22:38] <mdke> new (2) it is. that's technomensc1's one
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> 2 = page content categories
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> yes?
[22:39] <technomensc1> no
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> :confuseded:
[22:39] <mdke> (2)Removing unwanted Categories
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> right
[22:39] <technomensc1> categorynoparent, notdocumentation, development,discontinues,template, etc....
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> ok lets expand on that
[22:39] <technomensc1> we already did
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> i think we want to keep Template (is this used)
[22:40] <technomensc1> you were taking a shower
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> oooh
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> wait i read that
[22:40] <mdke> we should keep Template
[22:40] <mdke> it's part of Moin's way of handling stuff, rather than one of our categories
[22:40] <technomensc1> fine with me
[22:40] <technomensc1> ok
[22:40] <technomensc1> works for me
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> there is CategoryTemplate and DocumnetaitonTemplate
[22:40] <mdke> NoParent is a definite gonnar
[22:40] <technomensc1> was just about to ask that rocket
[22:40] <mdke> NoDocumentation and Development and Discontinued are part of (1), so they don't count
[22:40] <Rocket2DMn> i think we want to keep the first one
[22:41] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: they are two totally different concepts
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> oh ok
[22:41] <technomensc1> I see what he means
[22:41] <technomensc1> but can we rename them.....
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> what about CategoryDocumentaiton?
[22:41] <mdke> any page ending in "Template" appears in the left hand menu when you create a new page, to allow you to use a template
[22:41] <mdke> CategoryTemplate is a page which lists all Templates
[22:41] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: good one
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> delete that one mdke ?
[22:41] <mdke> yeah
[22:42] <mdke> others?
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> +1
[22:42] <technomensc1> so mdke, you'll explain on the tag page which tags go with nodocumentation/development/discontinued back in (1), right?
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> there are quite a few we can delete, i had my suggestions listed, but it got removed
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> CategoryUbuntu804 and its subpage?
[22:42] <technomensc1> rocket, I think I moved them, not deleted them...check the diff
[22:42] <mdke> technomensc1: I'm going to do it in a separate document that I'll post on the mailing list
[22:42] <technomensc1> wrong topic rocket
[22:43] <technomensc1> that's like 4 or 5
[22:43] <Rocket2DMn> oh, ok...
[22:43] <mdke> haha, this is total mayhem. I think we can leave 804 until another day
[22:43] <technomensc1> agreed
[22:43] <mdke> when we have implemented proper version tags
[22:44] <Rocket2DMn> is version tags one of our numbered things on the to-do list today?
[22:44] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: no. we need to add some software to the wiki first, which sommer wrote
[22:44] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[22:44] <mdke> so, any more for (2)?
[22:44] <Rocket2DMn> we might need to expaond on 2 when we have a definitive list
[22:45] <mdke> I see the list on the Discussion page
[22:45] <mdke> but I think that's a bit ambitious for now
[22:45] <technomensc1> rocket, #2 is only for the docs team tags for now
[22:45] <mdke> let's leave the issue of "subject-matter" categories until later
[22:45] <technomensc1> and the categories we don't need
[22:45] <Rocket2DMn> ah ok
[22:45] <mdke> although, please remove CategoryHomepage from that table - we probably need that for the time being
[22:45] <technomensc1> not up to subject yet.  we can't do subjects until we know what we ourselves are doing
[22:46] <mdke> alright, (3) is CategoryCleanup, right?
[22:46] <Rocket2DMn> ok
[22:46] <mdke> ok, I can sketch that out. I think 3 is enough
[22:47] <mdke> anything we've missed?
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> for CategoryCleanup, the pages marked with that need to be removed from the category and assigned appropriate Tag (there are a few that apply)
[22:47]  * mdke nods
[22:47] <technomensc1> the only thing is distinguishing between appcleanup and softwarecleanup
[22:47] <technomensc1> and how did that get duplicated?
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> yeah thats part of the content stuff technomensc1
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> or is it
[22:48] <Rocket2DMn> duncan did that i think
[22:48] <Rocket2DMn> b/c he didnt know about the Software stuff
[22:49] <technomensc1> how about anything that is either one, just tag as cleanup for now
[22:49] <technomensc1> and we'll worry about application or software afterwards
[22:49] <technomensc1> when we hit the content stuff
[22:49] <Rocket2DMn> actually Application and Software stuff is a mess, i looked through those yesterday, there are a string of pages pointing you to other pages, some of those which we are trying to get rid of in favor of tags...
[22:49] <mdke> yes, we should discuss that on the mailing list
[22:50] <mdke> I think it's pretty difficult to make out a case for a rational distinction between "Application" and "Software", but duncan seems to have an idea, so we'll see what he has to say
[22:50] <technomensc1> if he can ever get the emails....didn't he complain about that.  can't he check the archives on the site?
[22:50] <Rocket2DMn> he just didnt know, so the CategoryApplications and CategoryApplicationsCleanup are to be removed
[22:51]  * mdke shrugs
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> duncan created CategorySoftwareCleanup to replace CategoryApplicationsCleanup
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> b/c CategorySoftware already existed
[22:51] <technomensc1> as of right now, categoryapplicationscleanup and softwarecleanup just get those cleanup tags
[22:51] <mdke> now I'm really crosseyed
[22:51] <technomensc1> and get category links revmoed.  that would be my recommendation
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, exactly
[22:51] <technomensc1> backtracking....
[22:51] <mdke> but we made some good progress, I'll write it up and post it
[22:51] <technomensc1> may I take the speaking stick?
[22:52]  * Rocket2DMn listens
[22:53] <technomensc1> as of right now, regarding software and applicationcleanup....just tag them with the cleanup tags or more content, or whatever tags fit the best.
[22:53] <technomensc1> leave the categorysoftware or applicationcleanup links
[22:53] <technomensc1> so we can find them later
[22:54] <technomensc1> or change them to just categorysoftware or categoryapplication...ya, that's better
[22:54] <technomensc1> <<can't think
[22:54] <Rocket2DMn> i would rename CategoryApplicaitonsCleanup to CategorySoftwareCleanup
[22:54] <technomensc1> and I think just change it to categorysoftware with a cleanup tag
[22:54] <Rocket2DMn> same for CatregoryApplicatiosn->CategorySoftware
[22:55] <Rocket2DMn> move in baby steps essentially
[22:55] <Rocket2DMn> then we can get rid of the Applications* categories
[22:55] <technomensc1> and THEN move to tagging, good idea
[22:55] <Rocket2DMn> then tag CategorySoftwareCleanup with the appropriate Tag and remove the Category
[22:55] <technomensc1> will be longer, but make more sense
[22:55] <technomensc1> agreed
[22:56] <technomensc1> any seconds?
[22:56] <Rocket2DMn> technomensc1, i would have liked to do it in one swoop, but after looking through it yesterday, its just too confusing
[22:56] <technomensc1> I agree with you completely rocket
[22:56] <technomensc1> we need to see what we have before we can do anything with it
[22:57] <technomensc1> and on that note, I have to bid you both farewell.  I think this was very productive.  pleasure working with both of you
[22:57] <Rocket2DMn> thanks technomensc1 same to you
[22:57] <mdke> me too
[22:57] <mdke> cheers
[22:59] <Rocket2DMn> ok mdke, after you put the outline on the wiki, we can get started
[22:59] <Rocket2DMn> its Friday, take your time :)
[23:00] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: cool, thanks. Cya
[23:01] <Rocket2DMn> ill be around if you need to chat more, just ping me.  we got some good work done, 100x faster than over email, hehe


[12:41] <artnay> does anyone have an idea about the cd cover? will it be translatable? /me is comparing its translation to ubuntu manual
[12:46] <knome> probably will
[13:02] <dashua> Hey knome
[13:04] <knome> hey dashua
[13:04] <knome> how are you?
[13:04] <dashua> Good, good.
[13:04] <dashua> You?
[13:04] <dashua> How in the artwork coming along in Xu?
[13:04] <knome> waiting for the vector stuff
[13:05] <knome> started working on a new wallpaper yesterday
[13:05] <dashua> Going with that greenish/blue one?
[13:06] <knome> nope
[13:06] <knome> that was just playing around
[13:06] <dashua> Ah
[13:06] <knome> i'm not sure if i'm going to go with the new one i did yesterday either
[13:06] <knome> i'm trying to wait for inspiration
[13:06] <knome> and a new theme we still haven't used in our blue series
[13:06] <knome> theme as in thing, like sea
[13:06] <knome> but sea/lake and tree is already used
[13:07] <dashua> That'd be cool.
[13:08] <knome> ideas are welcome
[13:10] <dashua> Ok, I'll see what I can come up with. :)
[13:10] <knome> hehe, no pressure
[13:13] <knome> dashua, http://emonk.fi/temp/drawing-1-small.png
[13:13] <knome> dashua, that's heavily WIP, but i already think it's a bit same than the one we had in jaunty
[13:14] <dashua> Yeah, I can definitely see the Albatross influences.
[13:14] <knome> yup ;)
[13:14] <knome> i'm not so sure about something completely abstract either, even if i'm quite bad at realistic looking things
[16:34] <thekorn> hi, I'm preparing an ubuntu talk right now, does anyone know of templates for ooimpress or LaTeX beamer using the new brand?
[16:35] <knome> thekorn, there are none.
[16:35] <thekorn> knome: ok, thanks
[16:37] <thekorn> is the specification of the new brand (color codes etc.) available somewhere?
[16:37] <knome> thekorn, no, not yet.
[16:39] <thekorn> ok, I *think* I've seen a wiki page about it some time ago
[16:39] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
[16:39] <thekorn> but maybe I'm just dreaming of the new design ;)
[16:41] <thekorn> ok, thanks again knome
[16:41] <knome> no problem
[18:20] <highvoltage> hi! How do I do a plymouth dry-run to test a theme?
[18:31] <vish> highvoltage: pretty sure no one here knows that ;)  probably -desktop or -devel might know
[18:45] <highvoltage> vish: ok thanks
[18:45] <vish> np..


[05:17] <jibel> morning all
[05:20] <duflu> Morning jibel
[05:27] <jibel> audio is getting worse on eoan. The list of output channels is empty and I've no sound at all this morning
[05:28] <jibel> and it's populated after a restart of gnome-shell
[05:29] <jibel> but still no sound
[05:29] <jibel> time for a reboot I suppose
[06:14] <didrocks> good morning
[06:30] <duflu> Morning didrocks
[06:38] <didrocks> hey duflu
[06:48] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:48] <oSoMoN> happy Monday!
[06:51] <Wimpress> Morning o/
[06:53] <oSoMoN> hey Wimpress
[07:14] <didrocks> happy monday oSoMoN, Wimpress
[07:16] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[07:19] <marcustomlinson> morning jibel duflu didrocks oSoMoN and Wimpress
[07:19] <oSoMoN> hey marcustomlinson
[07:20] <didrocks> hey hey marcustomlinson
[07:29] <seb128> gooood morning desktopers
[07:29] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[07:30] <seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? passé un bon w.e?
[07:32] <oSoMoN> I caught a big bad cold that knocked me out on Saturday, but I used it as an excuse to sleep a lot more than usual and not do much, so all in all it wasn't a bad week-end :)
[07:32] <oSoMoN> and I'm feeling much better already
[07:32] <seb128> ah, good to read that you feel better!
[07:32] <marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: that was just an excuse to be left alone I'm sure ;)
[07:32] <seb128> sleeep is the best :)
[07:32] <didrocks> oSoMoN: sick on week-end? Not good planning :p
[07:33]  * marcustomlinson hearts sleeping
[07:33] <oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, if only… (left alone)
[07:40] <Trevinho> morning
[07:41] <didrocks> hey Trevinho
[07:41] <oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
[07:43] <marcustomlinson> buongiorno Trevinho
[07:46] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN, Wimpress, marcustomlinson, seb128 and Trevinho
[07:47] <seb128> hey duflu Trevinho, how are you?
[07:47] <duflu> seb128, strangely tired but OK. At least it's no longer jet lag or a virus. How are you?
[07:47] <Trevinho> hey everyhone
[07:47] <Trevinho> seb128: I'm good, thanks
[07:48] <oSoMoN> hey duflu
[07:48] <seb128> duflu, I'm good, had a nice relaxing w.e
[07:54] <Wimpress> duflu: Did the Canoniflu get you too?
[07:54] <duflu> Wimpress, nah it started over a week after the sprint
[07:55] <duflu> Oh, actually
[07:55] <duflu> No it would have been a bit under
[07:55] <duflu> 🤷
[07:58] <Wimpress> Ah, OK. Glad you're on the mend.
[07:58] <seb128> hey Wimpress, had a good w.e?
[07:59] <Wimpress> seb128: Yes, thanks. Spent most of it playing Lego Worlds with my daughter 🙂
[07:59] <Wimpress> Yourself?
[07:59] <seb128> Wimpress, nice, what did you build? we had a relaxing family w.e as well, it was great :)
[08:00] <Wimpress> We flattened an island and built Ninjago City 😁
[08:00] <seb128> nice!
[08:01] <willcooke> morning all
[08:01] <Wimpress> o/
[08:02] <Laney> hey
[08:02] <oSoMoN> good morning willcooke, Laney
[08:03] <seb128> hey willcooke, Laney, how are you today? had a good w.e?
[08:03] <willcooke> Putting Ikea stuff together, so.....
[08:04] <seb128> relaxing activity for rainy days :p
[08:04] <willcooke> :)
[08:04] <didrocks> hey willcooke! Wimpress to Lego worlds, will to IKEA, same world :)
[08:04] <willcooke> XDD
[08:04] <Laney> hey oSoMoN seb128 willcooke
[08:04] <oSoMoN> given the choice, I'll take the Lego
[08:04] <Laney> yeah was good, went to a fancy restaurant on saturday
[08:04] <didrocks> morning Laney
[08:04] <Laney> and then yesterday we did apple picking up at the allotment
[08:05] <Laney> yo ho ho didrocks
[08:05] <didrocks> oSoMoN: hum, I'm not sure, I like both :)
[08:05] <Laney> you well?
[08:05] <seb128> we were in France, nice relaxing w.e there yes
[08:05] <didrocks> I'm fine, thanks, but I didn't go to any fancy or unfancy restaurants :)
[08:05] <seb128> and road back was fine yesterday, just lot of rain
[08:05] <seb128> was the restaurant fancy enough to have snails? ;)
[08:05] <didrocks> Laney: compote time!
[08:06] <Laney> https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPacFQRchjwmwLUDzUqfnuXMaW3MSAsfwKbdKC9VxWBm-neQGmvdOlEU-hw8n2Pdw/photo/AF1QipOTINp-XMmXDdiUmjpHbQ1pIodt4EV1Oe2NMgKO?key=LWlIVk5CRnJzNnR3WEZUb0gtZFMxaEpzUmRub3Z3
[08:07] <seb128> what's this blue sky? that's not your place :p
[08:07] <Laney> NO SNAILS
[08:07] <seb128> :(
[08:07] <Laney> wouldn't have been surprised to see them actually
[08:07] <Laney> it was 'world tapas'
[08:07] <willcooke> That looks like an old tree.  very nice
[08:07] <Laney> = weird stuff, definitely includes snails ;-)
[08:07] <seb128> :)
[08:08] <Laney> yeah it's very old and gnarly
[08:08] <Laney> I was trying to get those great looking apples poking out of the top
[08:08] <didrocks> looks really great
[08:08] <willcooke> big apples too.
[08:08] <Laney> too scary standing all the way up there
[08:08] <Laney> need some kind of grabber
[08:09] <Laney> 7 mushroom crates just of the ones we already have off in that picture
[08:09] <Laney> apple pressing day is on october 20th, going to get J U I C EEEEEEEEEEE
[08:09] <duflu> Morning willcooke and Laney
[08:09] <willcooke> afternoon duflu
[08:10] <Laney> peace duflu
[08:10] <Wimpress> Laney: Apple pressing?  TIL
[08:12] <Laney> think it's one of the allotment holders
[08:12] <Laney> or someone's mate
[08:12] <Wimpress> I'd like to see photos of that.
[08:12] <Laney> nod
[08:12] <Wimpress> It has been a recent topic in the pub.
[08:18] <marcustomlinson> Hey willcooke, assembling ikea stuff, ditto :)
[08:18] <willcooke> :))
[08:18] <marcustomlinson> Morning Laney
[08:18]  * Laney fist bumps marcustomlinson
[08:32] <Wimpress> seb128: I have a favour to ask.
[08:32]  * seb128 hides
[08:32] <Wimpress> Found a bug in libpeas, specifically the Python 2 loader, over the weekend.
[08:33] <Wimpress> Have analysis, test case and a fix.
[08:33] <seb128> ah, nice
[08:34] <Wimpress> As the last person to have touched libpeas, I wonder if you'd take a look and upload the debdiff we've prepared?
[08:34] <Wimpress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpeas/+bug/1846890
[08:34] <Wimpress> Will buy beer 😉
[08:35] <seb128> Wimpress, any reason you didn't mp that on gitlab/upstream?
[08:35] <didrocks> Laney: I confirm that jibel's patch fixes the ubiquity build (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions/+sourcepub/10594743/+listing-archive-extra): https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Zh4hBvRzYY/. As I don't have merge right, do you mind sponsoring it?
[08:36] <seb128> I'm happy to do a package upload but I would prefer to have it upstreamed so we are good citizen and don't carry a delta for long
[08:37] <Wimpress> We are working with upstream.
[08:37] <Laney> didrocks: ok, in a bit, trying to make some upstream releases atm for the first time
[08:37] <seb128> Wimpress, I don't see it on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libpeas/merge_requests
[08:37] <Wimpress> The distro patch is the simplest fix. But it is like upstream do intend to change the loader name.
[08:38] <Wimpress> Not submitted yet. Will do this week.
[08:38] <didrocks> Laney: sure, thx :)
[08:38] <Laney> didrocks: what about checking for the file that we're patching existing rather than listing the arches?
[08:38] <seb128> Wimpress, ok, let me know when you do so I can update the patch reference
[08:38] <Laney> just from a quick look, back to releases now ;-)
[08:38] <Wimpress> seb128: Sure thing.
[08:38] <seb128> Wimpress, if we don't do that then a year later we don't remember context and we have delta we don't know why they are there
[08:38] <seb128> thx
[08:43] <didrocks> Laney: that would be a question for jibel, I think the arch is enough for now, even if I agree that testing the file would be better
[08:49] <Laney> it's definitely enough, just a review to get to a better place
[09:06] <jibel> Laney, you want a MP?
[09:08] <Laney> yes pls
[09:09] <Laney> ifneq (,$(wildcard path/to/file)) is the construction to do something if a file exists
[09:09] <willcooke> duflu, can you send me a link to your lightning talk slide deck?  I cant seem to find it (updating release notes and want to call out a few specifics)
[09:10] <duflu> willcooke, there's no public link yet. Is that what you're after?
[09:10] <willcooke> duflu, private is fine, I just want to pick a few specific bugs
[09:10] <willcooke> *fixes
[09:10] <duflu> Yeah Ok
[09:12]  * duflu waits for login.ubuntu.com to respond
[09:12] <willcooke> duflu, ditto
[09:12] <duflu> willcooke, anyway it's in the desktop shared folder
[09:12] <willcooke> thanks duflu
[09:13] <duflu> Hmm timeout
[09:13] <willcooke> same
[09:14] <willcooke> I've gott it opened, ta
[09:16] <jibel> Laney, ok i'll change it to test the file instead
[09:16] <Laney> ♥
[09:17] <Laney> gnome .1 day!
[09:19] <seb128> indeed
[09:19] <seb128> Laney, I started on some, check the queue (or vcs) before starting on some updates, I will state on #debian-gnome or here when I start new ones
[09:20] <Laney> okey
[09:20] <Laney> will start with glib
[09:20] <seb128> nice
[09:20] <seb128> I'm doing the n-m update atm, will look at merging gtk next
[09:24] <Laney> just wiped some olbas oil in my eye
[09:24] <Laney> deary me
[09:25] <Wimpress> seb128: I'll get the upstream libpeas MR filed later today.
[09:26] <seb128> Wimpress, thx, I uploaded that debdiff meanwhile (and added some references to the .patch, at least a description and the ubuntu bug number)
[09:27] <seb128> Wimpress, once you mp it I will apply to Debian with the proper references and sync back to Ubuntu later
[09:36] <Wimpress> seb128: Nice one. Thanks.
[09:58] <Wimpress> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpeas/+bug/1846890/comments/8
[11:18] <seb128> Wimpress, thx
[11:20] <seb128> Laney, could you look at the upstream comment on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libgdata/issues/37 , I could use your input on this one
[11:20] <gitbot> GNOME issue 37 in libgdata "Installed tests failing (without internet access?)" [2. Needs Information, Opened]
[11:22] <Laney> that's annoying isn't it
[11:22] <Laney> you could do (2) in the debian/tests script probably
[11:22] <Laney> like, resolve squid.internal and then re-export it with the IP address
[11:24] <Laney> or maybe it could be that the test works if you unset the proxies
[11:24] <Laney> if it doesn't actually use them in reality and that fake HTTP server covers everything?
[11:24] <seb128> oh maybe, let me try that
[11:24] <seb128> thx!
[11:42] <Laney> jibel: can haz MP?
[12:12] <jibel> Laney, yeah, testing a build
[12:18] <jibel> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/373735
[12:18] <jibel> and test build: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions/+packages?field.name_filter=ubiquity&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=eoan
[12:33] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, can/should we put this on our roadmap? https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/how-to-expose-desktop-files-created-by-snaps-to-the-de/2853/12
[12:41] <jibel> Laney, did you figure out how translations of ubiquity work?
[13:03] <jibel> tkamppeter, my old but reliable HP D5560 just died, what model would you recommend? It's for personal use, i'd like to stay with HP, it works pretty well on Ubuntu.
[13:11] <Laney> jibel: no, no idea, now seb128 is here he might know though
[13:11] <seb128> jibel, Laney, what's the actual question? I didn't see one in the backlog
[13:12] <jibel> seb128, you're excused, it's a backlog from Friday
[13:12] <seb128> ah
[13:12] <seb128> let me check irclog :)
[13:12] <jibel> seb128, there are new strings to translate in ubiquity for zfs
[13:12] <jibel> seb128, and we were wondering how translation work for ubiquity
[13:13] <jibel> is it just extracted when the package is uploaded? but then since they ship with the packge how are they reimported?
[13:13] <seb128> jibel, is the string in ubiquity itself or in one of the bundled d-i components?
[13:13] <jibel> ubiquity itself
[13:18] <seb128> let me check
[13:20] <Laney> I can't see it on launchpad now
[13:20] <Laney> so presumably I do have to re-generate the template somehow
[13:22] <seb128> right
[13:22] <seb128> ubiquity does bundle an export so translations need to be exported and included in the source
[13:22] <seb128> but at this point that one hasn't been imported, I'm checking to see why
[13:23] <kenvandine> oSoMoN: probably
[13:25] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, do you want me to create a trello card, or will you handle it?
[13:25] <kenvandine> oSoMoN: can you please create the card and I'll assign it?
[13:25] <oSoMoN> sure thingr
[13:25] <oSoMoN> -r
[13:26] <kenvandine> oSoMoN: thx
[13:27] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, https://trello.com/c/Et88ApUA/366-snapd-userd-api-to-expose-desktop-files-created-by-snaps-to-the-de
[13:27] <kenvandine> oSoMoN: great
[13:34] <seb128> jibel, Laney, k, took me a while to find that back, but I think you need to run 'debconf-updatepo' in the sourcedir and commit/upload that, I just tried and it updates the debian/real-po/*.po to correctly include the ZFS string, launchpad should import that then on package upload
[13:34] <Laney> ah, great, thanks!
[13:34] <seb128> np
[13:36] <tkamppeter> Jibel, most modern HP's would do, make sure it is a network printer capable to print from cell phones and it prints driverless. I use the HP OfficeJet Pro 8730, works great, has separate cartridges and the cartridges have last long for me.
[13:48] <jibel> tkamppeter, thanks, the 8730 seems too much for my needs. i'll search their list of products with the criteria you mentioned
[13:51] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers :)
[13:52] <marcustomlinson> \o
[13:52] <willcooke> morning hellsworth
[13:52] <oSoMoN> hello hellsworth
[13:53] <hellsworth> jibel, i'd like to help out on the iso testing effort that you emailed aobut last week. are the latest isos just here? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/406/builds
[13:53] <hellsworth> i feel like i can find some time every day to do some release testing
[13:54] <Wimpress> hellsworth: o/
[13:54] <hellsworth> \o
[13:54] <jibel> hellsworth, great, thnaks. latest daily builds are published here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/404/builds
[13:54] <jibel> direct dl link http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/pending/
[13:54] <hellsworth> jibel, thanks! how often are there new isos?
[13:55] <jibel> daily isos are built ... daily ;)
[13:55] <kenvandine> good morning hellsworth
[13:55] <hellsworth> daily at the same time?
[13:55] <hellsworth> hi :)
[13:55] <jibel> hellsworth, yes, around 8AM UTC
[13:56] <jibel> hellsworth, there is actually only one image for ubuntu desktop
[13:56] <hellsworth> is there a build number or some unique ID for a build to identify if there's a problem?
[13:56] <hellsworth> oh i see the version columin in the builds link
[13:56] <didrocks> hey hey hellsworth
[13:57] <jibel> hellsworth, it is the id on the tracker. Otherwise it's on the iso itself on /.disk/info
[13:57] <Laney> if you download from the iso tracker then the ID is in there
[13:57] <hellsworth> perfect thanks
[13:57] <hellsworth> perfect
[13:58] <Laney> not actually sure what happens to results posted on the daily milestone when a new image gets published
[13:58] <hellsworth> Laney, is the daily milestone you speak of the test cases? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/406/builds/200088/testcases
[13:59] <Laney> like if you start from that link jibel posted
[13:59] <Laney> there's a version column there
[13:59] <Laney> it'll be updated when there are new images created tomorrow
[13:59] <jibel> there is a report with all the bugs reported and attached to test results for a release
[14:01] <Laney> probably I am suggesting to use rls-ee-incoming as well as the iso tracker
[14:02] <hellsworth> does the http link found at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/406/builds/200088/downloads work for anyone?
[14:02] <jibel> not all the bugs are worth tagging
[14:02] <Laney> yes of course
[14:02] <Laney> i'm trying to suggest a good process, no need to push back on it
[14:02] <willcooke> hellsworth, 404
[14:02] <jibel> hellsworth, use 404 not 406 sa build number
[14:03] <hellsworth> Laney, i'm not trying to push back :) just trying to gather the process so thanks
[14:03] <Laney> not you hellsworth
[14:03] <hellsworth> ah ok
[14:03] <jibel> hellsworth, 406 was the beta, it's out and the candidate images are gone
[14:03] <willcooke> hellsworth, jibel!  hahah!  I meant 404 error, not found :)  Funny that 404 is the right version
[14:04] <hellsworth> yeah 404 vs 406 is a bit cryptic
[14:04] <jibel> Laney, sorry, not pushing back. I agree bugs reported on the tracker should then be tagged -incoming when they are important enough for the releaes
[14:05] <jibel> Laney,my comment was that there is a lot of noise reported on the tracker
[14:05] <Laney> okey
[14:05] <jibel> so I do review the bugs reported and tag them when appropriate
[14:05] <Laney> like that report isn't a super great thing for everyone to be visiting
[14:05] <Laney> but the rls process kind of is better quality, so people from this team could use that as well
[14:06] <jibel> this way not everyone has to go to the tracker to figure out what has ben reported and should be fixed for the release
[14:06] <jibel> agreed
[14:09] <hellsworth> ok now that i have all the things i'll make sure to do some testing every day and i'll be focusing on the test cases in a qemu vm
[14:09] <hellsworth> so thanks yall
[14:10] <seb128> hey hellsworth, how are you? did you have a good w.e?
[14:10] <hellsworth> i sure did!
[14:11] <hellsworth> we didn't do anything on our todo list and instead went to the zoo and made zucchini bread. it was lovely :)
[14:11] <hellsworth> how bout you seb128
[14:12] <seb128> I'm find, had a nice and relaxing w.e even if the weather was grey, cold & rainy :)
[14:12] <seb128> and today is GNOME .1 tarballs day, which is keeping me busy :)
[14:16] <hellsworth> ooh grey, cold and rainy sounds nice. we're expecting snow this thurday - i am excite :)
[14:16] <hellsworth> GNOME .1 tarballs day - what is this? tell me more please.
[14:19] <hellsworth> oh my. all these people quitting... was it something i said? lol
[14:25] <seb128> IRC split :)
[14:25] <RikMills> the matrix disconnected
[14:25] <seb128> or that in that case
[14:26] <RikMills> well, there are a lot of [m] there
[14:26] <seb128> hellsworth, https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointThirtyfive/
[14:26] <dax> and all of their hostnames say gateway/shell/matrix.org ;)
[14:26] <RikMills> ^
[14:26] <seb128> well it's a sort of split, the matrix server went away :)
[14:26] <willcooke> Trevinho, I've found a bug in the dock and I'm logging a bug for it now, but before I restart my session etc, do you want some extra debugging?
[14:27] <hellsworth> ah that makes sense. matrix is giving me troubles this morn too
[14:27] <Trevinho> willcooke: what kind of bug?
[14:27] <willcooke> Trevinho, dragging icons on the dock as stopped working
[14:28] <Trevinho> willcooke: mh, ok.. well the journalctl should hopefully include the stacktrace for that
[14:28] <Trevinho> willcooke: check if there's presency of @ubuntu.com over there
[14:28] <hellsworth> seb128, thanks for the link
[14:28] <seb128> hellsworth, you're welcome
[14:29] <seb128> Trevinho, willcooke, on a similar topic we have bug #1846477
[14:29] <willcooke> seb128, yeah that's what I was trying to recreate
[14:29] <seb128> the journal has quite some errors
[14:29] <seb128> st_label_set_text: assertion 'ST_IS_LABEL (label)' failed
[14:32] <Trevinho> mh ok thanks
[14:33] <Trevinho> I've various branche I've to submit to the dock too
[14:33] <willcooke> I see errors like that one ^
[14:33] <Trevinho> but I've to finish stuff with the desktop extension first
[14:33] <Trevinho> willcooke: and no logging related to that?
[14:33] <Trevinho> I mean trace of where these calls are coming from (js)
[14:33] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock/+bug/1847102
[14:33] <Trevinho> ?
[14:34] <willcooke> I'll attach logs
[14:38] <willcooke> JS ERROR: TypeError: this.icon.label is null
[14:48] <Trevinho> mh, yeah, not enough... I wonder why the debug isn't enabled by default there... mhm
[14:52] <seb128> jbicha, hum, any idea about bug 1847107? the gir depends is there so unsure what's the issue
[15:47] <Laney> jibel: it's in, can you mail the translators please?
[15:47] <Laney> in> proposed, suppose it'll be a little while before rosetta learns
[16:39] <jibel> Laney, I don't find the new translsation in LP. Is there a delay or something to do to publish them?
[16:40] <jibel> cyphermox, maybe you know?
[16:40] <Laney> jibel: it's probably some job that imports it
[16:40] <Laney> would expect it to appear 'soon'
[16:40] <Laney> watch https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/eoan/+source/ubiquity/+imports
[16:41] <jibel> I didn't know this queue
[16:41] <jibel> I'll wait before sending the call for translation then
[16:41] <Laney> as you wish
[16:54] <Laney> jibel: I see it on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/eoan/+source/ubiquity/+imports?field.filter_status=all&field.filter_extension=pot
[16:55] <Laney> not sure how to approve that though, seems I don't have permission
[16:55] <Laney> seb128: can you?
[17:19] <willcooke> night all
[17:19] <kenvandine> good night willcooke
[18:38] <seb128> Laney, jibel, template approved, it should import in the next hour or less
[19:00] <seb128> Laney, jibel, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/eoan/+source/ubiquity/+pots/ubiquity-debconf/fr/259/+translate
[22:58] <amurray> hey desktoppers, I just noticed if I use either communitheme-light/dark (via the communitheme edge snap) that a bunch of snaps have transparent window backgrounds - I assume this is because gtk-common-themes doesn't include these variants?
[23:24] <kenvandine> amurray: yes, please try gtk-common-themes from candidate
[23:25] <kenvandine> Please let me know if that fixes it
[23:31] <kenvandine> amurray: that should be in stable tomorrow, but I'd love to confirm that it fixes this for communitheme users
[23:32] <amurray> kenvandine: hmm I was previously running gtk-common-themes from edge - will give candidate a go...


[17:49] <h00k> Oi
[17:50] <h00k> Anyone start anything for Release Parties in their area?
[17:50] <h00k> Let's have a meeting! Next Wednesday.


I'm so used to just installing Ubuntu and running a few commands and it being good lol


[00:05] <Minze> always think wth is this again :)
[00:05] <Minze> i usally install it anyway cause i use firefox mainly, but was always curios about the "why"
[00:07] <Minze> same as the reason why lubuntu includes chrome by default, although it is feel/performance-wise slower than firefox :/
[00:07] <Minze> atleast on the main aiming area aka the low-end machines
[00:07] <n1ckn4me09876543> chrome beats ie
[00:08] <n1ckn4me09876543> as in the most use browser in the world
[00:08] <Minze> lol i dont mind about ie, iam comparing ff and chrome
[00:09] <Minze> and chrome doesnt perform as well as firefox on low-end machines
[00:09] <n1ckn4me09876543> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-weekly-201121-201221
[00:09] <Minze> different story ond mid-class machines where it outperforms firefox
[00:09] <micahg> Minze: I think this changed recently, chromium had a speed advantage for a while
[00:10] <n1ckn4me09876543> lifehacker did a survey on which performs well and opera wins
[00:10] <n1ckn4me09876543> but i tried opera on lubuntu and it seems lubuntu doesnt like opera, it keeps on crashing, atleast on my pc
[00:11] <micahg> opera isn't a default option since it's non-free (and not in the archive)
[00:11] <cleaninstall> is use chrome for day to day stuff, firefox for addons that do stuff i want done, used opera for a long time, dont like its look and feel anymore
[00:11] <cleaninstall> i use that is
[00:11] <cleaninstall> ie for the 3 payment systems or forums that wont work anywhere else
[00:14] <Minze> dont think its quite a good idea to use ie for critical payment services :/
[00:14] <Minze> a bucket full of holes and famous for its leakage
[00:15] <n1ckn4me09876543> i only use firefox when when i want to go behind a proxy like Tor,  (tor browser bundle pack) it comes with ff with add ons and stuff preconfigured is pretty nice
[00:15] <cleaninstall> not my idea, a couple things i use only work in ie, that or nothing
[00:15] <Minze> use chrome for that stuff usally, got the best security-concept so far
[00:17] <Minze> keep it updated atleast, browse to the directly to the url :)
[00:17] <Minze> and browse*
[00:17] <Minze> many drive-bys these day, especially for ie
[00:18] <cleaninstall> one utility bill and one mmorpg only takes paybmet in ie, dont use it for anything else, dont let my kids, or my parents or anyone that will listen
[00:19] <Minze> unbelievable that there are still websites supporting ie only... hopefully it got nothing to do with that silverlight crap
[00:21] <Minze> micahg: regarding stats etc. it is definitelly the no.1 but feel-wise it lacks behind firefox, especially regarding flash-content use on low-end machines (talking about an athlon xp 3000+)
[00:22] <Minze> i mean i dont notice anything on an octocore highend rig, but when it goes into the low-end its quite noticable
[00:23] <Minze> noticeable*
[00:25] <n1ckn4me09876543> yea ff wins when it comes to memory usage- http://lifehacker.com/browser-speed-tests/
[00:35] <cleaninstall> i worked at a place, (about a year ago), still use ie6, id just snicker and keep my mouth shut
[01:42] <Minze> good night everyone!
[05:26] <skiwithpete> hi
[10:11] <leszek> hi
[14:08] <TheWonderingGuru> Hello everyone
[14:09] <TheWonderingGuru> I was wondering. How do I move files from the pictures folder into the default folder for desktop wallpapers in Lubuntu 12.04 LTS?
[14:46] <leszek> hi
[15:12] <esing> my lubuntu said an new ubuntu is there (11.0) , well I use lubuntu and wonder if I can still install the new ubuntu 11.0 components or do i have to worry that my system changes completly from lubuntu to ubuntu 11 ?
[15:51] <leszek> re
[16:11] <GridCube> Hi, im helping an user on #ubuntu-es, thats using lubuntu, and says that even if the screen resolution is correct all the system looks tiny, and if he goes to a smaller resolution everything looks blurry
[16:21] <leszek> GridCube: might be a driver or a dpi issue
[16:21] <GridCube> how to know?
[16:22] <leszek> this is hard to know
[16:22] <leszek> or to figure out
[16:33] <esing> hi
[16:33] <esing> should i use sFTP or samba to share folders within my windows home network ?
[16:34] <esing> i tried samba but it's not working somehow, dunno why :(
[16:38] <GridCube> so guys
[16:38] <GridCube> im pretty sure its a font issue, see http://imagebin.org/215765
[16:38] <GridCube> but that tab doesnt allow him to set the font higher
[16:38] <GridCube> how can this be done?
[16:38] <GridCube> its like he is using a font size 8
[16:44] <leszek> GridCube: it could be an dpi issue
[16:44] <leszek> the default font is set to 10
[16:44] <leszek> he should look in lxappearance what is set as font size there
[16:44] <GridCube> kk
[16:47] <GridCube> he says it says 11
[16:48] <GridCube> so, its there a way to fix the dpi?
[16:53] <leszek> GridCube: in ~/.Xdefaults you can set the dpi
[16:53] <leszek> Xft.dpi: 96
[16:53] <leszek> for example
[16:55] <GridCube> lubuntu's text editor is leafpad correct?
[16:56] <leszek> yes
[16:56] <GridCube> :) thanks
[18:19] <CaerdyddKennie> H
[18:19] <CaerdyddKennie> Hi
[18:19] <CaerdyddKennie> I have an asus eeepc 7g and I run lubuntu precise (12.04)
[18:20] <CaerdyddKennie> Very fine distro and quite happy, but have hit two glitches.
[18:20] <CaerdyddKennie> When I hit the power button nothing happens even though I config'd xfce4-power-manager to bring up a dialgoue.
[18:23] <leszek> CaerdyddKennie: thats because the xfce4-power-manager is meant for xfce4-session and not lxsession so it cannot call the dialog
[18:24] <leszek> CaerdyddKennie: see for example this: http://ppa.launchpad.net/dantti/colord-kde/ubuntu/pool/main/c/colord/colord_0.1.18-1~ppa1.dsc
[18:24] <leszek> ah xD
[18:24] <leszek> wrong link
[18:25] <leszek> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=94516
[18:25] <leszek> here you find a maybe solution
[18:34] <smile> bye :)
[18:38] <yjacket> When ever I try to login to my account, The screen goes black, and just takes me back to the login screen, no incorrect password
[18:39] <yjacket> I can login via console just fine, but the GUI just boots me out
[18:40] <gomiboy> yjacket: check for error massages in ~/.xsession-errors
[18:40] <yjacket> gomiboy: thanks! let me check that...
[18:44] <yjacket> gomiboy: hmm, I am having trouble getting the log file to the guest account...
[18:44] <yjacket> I copied the log file the correct folder in /tmp/guest-... but it isn't showing up
[18:47] <frankcox767> has anybody heard that Linux will not run on Windows 8 boxes?
[18:47] <yjacket> whoops, hold on let me post a link to the log file
[18:47] <yjacket> frankcox767 weren't they going to use a secure boot?
[18:50] <esing> hi
[18:50] <esing> how do I access windows 7 shares from Lubuntu ?
[18:50] <esing> in Ubuntu I do this, but I dont find this in Lubuntu http://www.7tutorials.com/how-access-windows-7-shared-folders-ubuntu
[18:51] <yjacket> I can't open chrome in my guest account to post the log file... :/
[18:51] <yjacket> ... is there any way to enable guest accounts to use chrome via console?
[18:52] <yjacket> screw it, booting off a live disk, brb
[18:52] <frankcox767> yjacket - from what I read RedHat is paying MS but no mention of anyone else.
[18:52] <frankcox767> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/05/31/190217/red-hat-will-pay-microsoft-to-get-past-uefi-restrictions
[18:58] <gomiboy> esing: type in the file manager: smb://WINPCNAME
[18:59] <esing> gomiboy thanks, I already tried that but it always returns to / of the linux machine
[19:05] <esing> maybe I need to install another package?
[19:05] <esing> like smbfs ?
[19:07] <yjacket> gomiboy, here is a link to my log http://pastebin.com/QWrzUTH4
[19:07]  * esing is changing PC's
[19:08] <gomiboy> esing: try with smb:// you should be able to browse the workgroup
[19:16] <CaerdyddKennie> leszek:  Thx for the info.  Is there a way to work around this?
[19:16] <gomiboy> yjacket: is that all? Seems too short to me...
[19:16] <yjacket> gomiboy that all, let me post errors.old?
[19:16] <yjacket> *that's
[19:17] <yjacket> yikes, .xsession-errors.old is 500 kb!
[19:19] <yjacket> ok, erased most of the repeats, posting now
[19:20] <yjacket> gomiboy: http://pastebin.com/KCzMZheV
[19:24] <yjacket> hmm, maybe if I uninstall firestarter? let me hop to another computer so I can get boot into it... brb
[19:28] <esing> gomiboy nope Iam not able to do that :D
[19:28] <esing> besides I wonder if I should chose LXDM or LightDM
[19:28] <esing> (doing the ubuntu 12 update)
[19:29] <yjacket> ok, uninstalled firestarter, no go :/
[19:32] <yjacket> gomiboy: i also installed x11vnc server, ill try uninstalling that one next
[19:33] <yjacket> no go either... let me see if the logs changed at all
[19:37] <gomiboy> yjacket: if i got it right you can log in with another user, so the problem is with your user session, but i can't see anything wrong in the logs, just 'normal' errors/warnings
[19:41] <yjacket> gomiboy: yeah i am in a guest session right now, but i still cant login to my account
[19:44] <yjacket> well what do i do now, reinstall? if i do, ill probably drop down to 11.04 or 11.10
[19:46] <yjacket> and i wonder why chrome doesnt work in the guest account...
[19:46] <gomiboy> yjacket: well, if you don't care much about the configs you have made with you user, you can just make another one instead of reinstall
[19:48] <yjacket> gomiboy: are there .x configs in my user dir? could i copy those from another user?
[19:50] <gomiboy> you mean X11 configs? In that case, no, they are in /etc
[19:51] <yjacket> well what ever is corrupted in my main account's could be copied over... i didnt understand the logs, all it said was it was started
[19:51] <yjacket> *wasnt
[19:54] <yjacket> shouldnt there be another log somewhere?
[20:01] <gomiboy> try this: press ctrl+alt+f1 login with your broken user, type: startx -- :1
[20:01] <gomiboy> yjacket: ^
[20:02] <yjacket> alright, just a sec
[20:02] <gomiboy> and see if you get some tasty error...
[20:07] <yjacket> gomiboy a lot of clutter, then the screen goes black... let me try piping the output to a file
[20:08] <gomiboy> and once black it goes back to the terminal?
[20:08] <yjacket> shoot, let me restart, i can't kill the first one I did, and it locked something...
[20:14] <yjacket> gomiboy: the piped file is blank :(
[20:15] <yjacket> I am going to try transferring my main accounts home folder to another acocunts, and seeing if that account has the same issue
[20:15] <gomiboy> yjacket: the screen stays black? do you see any error in console if you ctrl+alt+f1?
[20:16] <gomiboy> transferring the home folder, will transfer the issue
[20:16] <yjacket> The only thing I can see is "No protocol specified" over and over, until I send Ctrl-C
[20:17] <yjacket> gomiboy: thats what i am trying to find, the problem, so I can replace it with a fresh config
[20:26] <yjacket> well, apparently lubuntu doesn't like it when the main account doesn't have a home folder, and you switch to the gui login screen... :/
[20:35] <AmberJ_> Hello
[20:35] <AmberJ_> Are regexes supposed to work with 'apt-cache search' ?
[20:36] <AmberJ_> Ah, it works...
[20:36] <AmberJ_> 'apt-cache search dev*' works fine .... But 'apt-cache search *dev' outputs error:
[20:37] <AmberJ_> "E: Regex compilation error"
[20:37] <AmberJ_> I'm using Lubuntu 12.04 amd64...
[20:40] <AmberJ_> (in case this has got anything to do with Lubuntu (bug)..
[20:42] <yjacket> according to http://regexpal.com/ "*dev" is not valid, if that helps
[20:42] <yjacket> *AmberJ_
[20:45] <AmberJ_> hmm
[20:50] <yjacket> gomiboy: if I am going to just create a new main account, does that mean I can't delete delete the previous broken one?
[20:51] <yjacket> because in my "test" admin account, I am not a sudoer, and have to enter the broken main accounts password to do gui authentication for applications
[20:59] <yjacket> well, I am going to just install Lubuntu 11.10 over this... what new features did 12.04 have exactly?
[21:22] <esing> hi
[21:23] <esing> can I switch from LXDE easily to unify or gnome? will i have 100% ubuntu if I change my desktop environment or are there also other differences between lubuntu and ubuntu except the desktop environment ?
[22:13] <esing> someone here?
[22:52] <esing> how can I make the taskbar bigger
[22:53] <esing> I cant read it , it is too small
[23:17] <monteleo> bump


[00:05] <dgarstang> Trying to write a file with write_files... data in file comes out as garbage... Help
[00:19] <dgarstang> Trying to write a file with write_files... data in file comes out as garbage... Help
[00:29] <dgarstang> Trying to write a file with write_files... data in file comes out as garbage... Help
[00:51] <powersj> dgarstang: I'm out of the day, but if you could post your cloud-config or give me something to reproduce that would be best
[01:07] <dgarstang> powersj: Seems like you MUST encode b64 or gzip
[03:02] <prometheanfire> security updates dontchaknow
[15:53] <dgarstang> Anyone awake?
[15:53] <dpb1> Zzzzzz.
[15:54] <dgarstang> I'm using write_files with content: content: {"chef_org":"foo_eu","chef_run_list":"role[\"eu-base\"],role[\"bastion-host\"]","chef_server":"chef.eu-infra.local","dns_domain":"eu-infra.local","service":"bastion"} ... However in the file all the double quotes have been replaced by single quotes. :(
[16:02] <powersj> dgarstang: first, it seems you figured out how to include content versus a blob or encoded text, is that correct?
[16:03] <powersj> here is an example I just ran with json as content: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24908960/
[16:04] <powersj> make sure you have the '|' character before your content
[16:06] <rharper> dgarstang: you probably want to use the content: |  to have direct content quoting, like so:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/24908978/
[16:07] <rharper> dgarstang: you can also play with cloud-init in single mode to make sure it's writing what you want (without launching a new instance)
[16:43] <dgarstang> rharper: yep, worked that out... thanks. had to use |
[16:43] <rharper> dgarstang: great!
[16:44] <dgarstang> btw... single mode?
[16:46] <rharper> that just runs a single cc_module
[16:46] <rharper> I find it useful for testing out user-data that applies for various modules
[16:47] <dgarstang> oic
[17:07] <dgarstang> Can I split runcmd over multiple lines?
[17:57] <rharper> runcmd is a list of commands, in general, for a multi-line shell, you'll need to collapse that into a single line using shell statement separators (like semi-colon)  - "if grep -q foo /bar; then echo 'wark'; else echo 'no wark'; fi"
[19:25] <dgarstang> rharper: yeah but what if one of those commands between ; and ; is longer than a line?
[23:01] <powersj> rharper: 1687712 - I tried that one, but was unable to fully verify it
[23:10] <rharper> powersj: ok, any details or did the sru test case just fail ? paste of outputs?
[23:10] <rharper> bug 1687712
[23:10] <ubot5`> bug 1687712 in cloud-init "cc_disk_setup: fs_setup with cmd doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1687712
[23:10] <powersj> see my last comment in the bug
[23:12] <rharper> powersj: do you have the instance still up ?
[23:13] <rharper> can you see if the mkfs command ran at all ? I suppose
[23:13] <powersj> rharper: I do not, trying to finish LP: 1692087 before end of the day
[23:13] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1692087 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Zesty) "check_partition_layout has false positives when partitioned with gpt" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692087
[23:13] <powersj> rharper: what's best way to determine that?
[23:13] <rharper> heh
[23:14] <rharper> oh, well, if mkfs ran you should see a subP command output in cloud-init.log
[23:14] <powersj> for example, I even tried running the command by hand and got the disk to show up under /dev/disk/by-label
[23:14] <powersj> ah
[23:14] <rharper> also, you can do a dumpe2fs on /dev/sdc1 to see if has a fs on it (or even blkid on it)
[23:14] <rharper> I worry that /dev/sdc1 wouldn't exist for the fs_ command to do anything
[23:14] <powersj> ok I'll jot that down for tomorrow, I can try again for you
[23:14] <rharper> I think sdb1 might already come partitions
[23:14] <rharper> ok
[23:14] <powersj> in azure, sdb is that tmp disk right?
[23:15] <rharper> something like that
[23:15] <rharper> ephemeral storage
[23:15] <powersj> I wasn't going to use that and was trying to use an attached storage disk
[23:16] <rharper> you could also test with /dev/sdc
[23:16] <rharper> which wouldn't require partitioning
[23:16] <rharper> you can put a fs on a raw device


[20:27] <gf2> Hi. I solved a bug!  I found a workaround in another bug report and had the reporter try it. It worked. So, what status do I put for this bug?
[20:30] <tsimonq2> gf2: Confirmeed.
[20:30] <tsimonq2> *Confirmed
[20:30] <tsimonq2> I'm curious though, which bug?
[20:31] <gf2> Hi, here is the bug.
[20:31] <gf2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/1770587
[20:31] <gf2> Confirmed doesn't close it though. I thought "invalid"?
[20:32] <tsimonq2> hmm
[20:33] <tsimonq2> Looking.
[20:33] <tsimonq2> Right, invalid is correct. Thanks gf2.
[20:33] <tsimonq2> gf2: Have you considered becoming a member of Bug Control, by the way?
[20:35] <gf2> I'd love to be a member of the Bug Control. I am still just new to this. I started bug triage at the end of June and thought I would try to clear up the old bugs. I have addressed about 1000 old bugs so far. :) It's kinda fun. But I am still learning, I must say.
[20:35] <gf2> This is my first "solve" :)
[20:39] <tsimonq2> gf2: Feel free to get an IRC bouncer (if you don't have one) and idle here. :)
[20:39] <tsimonq2> Thanks for your work!
[20:40] <gf2> Sorry, tsimonq2, I don't know that the IRC bouncer is?
[20:41] <tsimonq2> gf2: Ah, no problem. :) I'd just make sure you're always here.
[20:42] <tsimonq2> gf2: An IRC bouncer is a piece of software which sits on a server that's always up, and instead of connecting to the IRC server directly, you connect to the bouncer and it bounces everything to/from the IRC server and your client.
[20:43] <tsimonq2> gf2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_(software)
[20:45] <gf2> Thanks for the info, tsimonq2. I am currently using Pidgin. I am not always on line. I work full time and am only able to address bugs in my spare time. How would the bouncer help?
[20:46] <tsimonq2> gf2: If someone has an important message for you, instead of trying to catch you when you're online, they can just ping you, and you'll get the message when you're online next.
[20:46] <tsimonq2> gf2: The majority of Ubuntu contributors do it; for example, you can ping me at any time. :)
[20:47] <gf2> oh! that is interesting. OK, I will explore that software. Thanks for the tip. :)
[20:47] <gf2> :) how do I become a member of bug control?
[20:48] <tsimonq2> gf2: Here is some documentation on it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
[20:48] <gf2> ok, good! Thanks tsimonq2!
[20:49] <tsimonq2> No problem gf2, let me know if you have any more questions. :_)
[20:49] <tsimonq2> *:)
[20:49] <gf2> Super! I will. :)
[21:05] <gf2> Hi again, tsimonq2. Which BNC software do you use?
[21:08] <tsimonq2> gf2: I personally SSH to a server I have and use irssi under tmux, but I typically recommend https://www.panicbnc.net/ which I've used before.
[21:09] <gf2> Great! Thanks again for your help, tsimonq2! :)
[21:09] <tsimonq2> No problem. :)


[00:32] <mup> PR snapcraft#3196 closed: cli: unset false boolean flags in environment <Created by cjp256> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3196>
[04:25] <mup> PR snapd#8973 opened: tests: moving journalctl.sh to a new journal-state tool <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8973>
[05:32] <mborzecki> morning
[06:41] <mup> PR snapd#8870 closed: interfaces: add gconf interface <Needs Samuele review> <Reviewed> <Created by jdstrand> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8870>
[06:46] <mup> PR snapd#8970 closed: tests: rename user-tool to user-state, fix --help <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8970>
[07:05] <pstolowski> mor ning
[07:15] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[07:15] <mvo> good morning pstolowski
[07:15] <pstolowski> o/
[07:15] <mborzecki> mvo: good morning to you too
[07:16] <mup> PR snapd#8971 closed: tests: rename lxd-tool to lxd-state <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8971>
[07:16] <mvo> mborzecki: and to you :)
[07:16] <mborzecki> mvo: can you reopen https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883 ? wanted to restart the spread jobs, but i can't reopen after closing it
[07:16] <mup> PR #8883: packaging: stop snapd early on purge <Test Robustness> <Created by mvo5> <Closed by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883>
[07:16] <mborzecki> mvo: oh w8, nvm, i can ;P
[07:19] <mborzecki> mvo: fwiw, the spread job was suprisingly green (?), wanted to double check if that's a fluke or that last commit actually changed the net effect of prerm
[07:19] <zyga-x240> good morning
[07:19] <pstolowski> hey zyga-x240 ! online already?
[07:20] <zyga-x240> hey
[07:20] <zyga-x240> yeah, I'm waiting
[07:20] <pstolowski> got it
[07:20] <zyga-x240> I'll be back again after 14-15 probably
[07:20] <zyga-x240> I may be at the standup
[07:20] <pstolowski> zyga-x240: can you re-ack #8939? it got +1 from Jamie
[07:20] <mup> PR #8939: snap-confine: don't die if a device from sysfs path cannot be found by udev <Bug> <Needs security review> <Security-High> <Squash-merge> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8939>
[07:20] <zyga-x240> yeah, let me look
[07:22] <mvo> mborzecki: oh, nice
[07:22] <mvo> mborzecki: keep me updated :)
[07:24] <zyga-x240> pstolowski: +1
[07:24] <pstolowski> ty
[07:31] <mup> PR snapd#8969 closed: tests: fix argument handling of apt-state <Created by zyga> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8969>
[07:33] <pstolowski> mvo: i suppose we may want #8839 for a point release, in which case it's best to squash-merge?
[07:33] <mup> PR #8839: tests: add debug for 20.04 prepare failure <Test Robustness> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8839>
[07:48] <jamesh> alan_g: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8699#issuecomment-653401466
[07:48] <mup> PR #8699: interfaces/desktop-launch: support confined snaps launching other snaps <Needs Samuele review> <Needs security review> <Created by AlanGriffiths> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8699>
[07:48] <jamesh> ^^ I put together a simple spread test to get you started
[07:50] <mvo> pstolowski: 8839 the debug stuff? I don't think we need it for the point release I htink we know wha tis wrong
[07:51] <pstolowski> mvo: grr i meant #8939, sorry
[07:51] <mup> PR #8939: snap-confine: don't die if a device from sysfs path cannot be found by udev <Bug> <Needs security review> <Security-High> <Squash-merge> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8939>
[07:51] <mvo> pstolowski: oh, yeah, that for sure
[07:56] <mup> PR snapd#8939 closed: snap-confine: don't die if a device from sysfs path cannot be found by udev <Bug> <Needs security review> <Security-High> <Squash-merge> <Created by stolowski> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8939>
[08:06] <mup> PR snapd#8974 opened: spread.yaml: remove tests/lib/tools from PATH <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8974>
[08:11] <alan_g> jamesh, thanks. I'll try to get to it next week. (Depending how busy the sprint gets.)
[08:16] <mup> PR snapd#8975 opened: tests: shorten lxd-state undo-mount-changes <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8975>
[08:26] <mup> PR snapd#8976 opened: snap-confine: don't die if a device from sysfs path cannot be found by udev (2.45) <Bug> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8976>
[08:38] <pstolowski> hmmm, ^ this fails against 2.45 with 'packaging/debian-sid/changelog:6:18: "miscellanious" is a misspelling of "miscellaneous
[08:38] <zyga-x240> pstolowski: fix the typo :)
[08:38] <zyga-x240> pstolowski: it's okay
[08:39] <pstolowski> zyga-x240: yeah, but same change just landed in master (and the typo is not in my PR)
[08:39] <zyga-x240> yeah but if it's landing to a release branch it should be fixed there
[08:39] <zyga-x240> not sure why it wasn't picked up before
[08:39] <pstolowski> ok
[08:39] <zyga-x240> fixing masteri s also good
[08:42] <pstolowski> ok, master is good, the typo is only in 2.45
[08:43] <pstolowski> pushed a fix to my PR
[08:44] <zyga-x240> super, thank you :)
[08:58] <zyga-x240> I've broken out another chunk of refresh-app-awareness https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8977
[08:58] <mup> PR #8977: cmd/snap: track started apps and hooks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8977>
[09:01] <mup> PR snapd#8977 opened: cmd/snap: track started apps and hooks <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8977>
[09:08] <mborzecki> mvo: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883 did not fail in prepare for the 2nd time in a row
[09:08] <mup> PR #8883: packaging: stop snapd early on purge <Test Robustness> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883>
[09:09] <mborzecki> errand, back in 1h
[09:26] <zyga-x240> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8975 needs a second review, +/- 13 lines
[09:26] <mup> PR #8975: tests: shorten lxd-state undo-mount-changes <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8975>
[09:29] <zyga-x240> and the super short https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8974 completes the tools transition
[09:29] <mup> PR #8974: spread.yaml: remove tests/lib/tools from PATH <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8974>
[09:29] <zyga-x240> pedronis: after ^ the README file needs changing, let me know if you want to do that yourself
[09:34]  * zyga-x240 goes to the doctor now
[09:34] <zyga-x240> see you later, if I make it back in time for the standup
[09:49] <mvo> mborzecki: nice
[10:17] <mborzecki> re
[10:50] <mborzecki> mvo: so https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883 passed for the 3rd time, maybe it's the righ fix after all
[10:50] <mup> PR #8883: packaging: stop snapd early on purge <Test Robustness> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883>
[10:53] <mvo> mborzecki: nice!
[10:54] <mvo> mborzecki: yeah, let's go with it, we should probably squash it
[10:54] <mborzecki> mvo:  will do
[11:00] <mvo> mborzecki: thank you!
[11:02] <mup> PR snapd#8975 closed: tests: shorten lxd-state undo-mount-changes <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8975>
[11:05] <ogra> regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1881588 ...
[11:05] <mup> Bug #1881588: pre-seeding lxd on Core appliances breaks console-conf user creation <id-5ef638e8ed708765e909cfe8> <snapd:Invalid by anonymouse67> <subiquity:In Progress
[11:05] <mup> by mwhudson> <subiquity (Ubuntu):Invalid> <subiquity (Ubuntu Xenial):Confirmed> <subiquity (Ubuntu Bionic):Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881588>
[11:05] <ogra> what exactly makes snapd decide that a system is managed ?
[11:05] <ogra> i thought this only happens if "snap create-user" was used ?
[11:07] <ogra> (seems lxd simply calls useradd chrooted into /var/lib/snapd/hostfs at runtime ... which as i understand should not mark the system as managed)
[11:10] <pedronis> snap managed true means we have users in auth (over time it will mean other things), that's all there is to it
[11:11] <pedronis> as discussed in the bug there's just some confusion around it and what the console-conf logic does
[11:14] <pedronis> afaiu
[11:15] <ogra> ah, i always thought there is an extra setting
[11:15] <ogra> i.e. a flag the create-user sets
[11:18] <pedronis> no there's a flag for the reverse to let you create users even there are already some
[11:18] <ogra> well, the managed check should ignore users below UID 1000 i think
[11:19] <pedronis> there's no bug in snapd
[11:19] <pedronis> we don't check users on the system
[11:19] <pedronis> we check users only inside snapd
[11:19] <pedronis> there's just confusion
[11:19] <ogra> (the first non-system user definitely gets 1000)
[11:19] <ogra> hmm, k
[11:21] <pedronis> it's all based on len(auth.Users(state)), that code doesn't consider anything on disk, but the state in snapd
[11:44] <ogra> ok
[12:24] <mborzecki> mvo: with some commits dropped and others squashed it's passing again https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883 (and needs reviews)
[12:24] <mup> PR #8883: packaging: stop snapd early on purge <Test Robustness> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8883>
[12:45] <mvo> mborzecki: nice
[12:49] <zyga-x240> re
[12:49] <zyga-x240> back just in time
[12:53] <mup> PR snapcraft#3198 opened: snap: drop legacy, switch to core20 for bootstrap <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3198>
[13:01] <zyga-x240> cachio: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8973#pullrequestreview-442392657
[13:01] <mup> PR #8973: tests: moving journalctl.sh to a new journal-state tool <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8973>
[13:01] <zyga-x240> nice work!
[13:08] <mup> PR snapcraft#3195 closed: extensions: introduce flutter-master <enhancement> <specification> <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3195>
[13:21] <zyga-x240> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8974 is green, it's super short and completes the tool transition
[13:21] <mup> PR #8974: spread.yaml: remove tests/lib/tools from PATH <Simple 😃> <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8974>
[13:26] <zyga-x240> mborzecki: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/config-txt/conditional.md
[13:26] <zyga-x240> mborzecki: pi bootloader has support for gpio directly
[13:26] <zyga-x240> mborzecki: perhaps we could use that as well
[13:26] <mborzecki> zyga-x240: yeah, dave pointed me to that doc too
[13:26] <zyga-x240> specifically, you can make decisions on those
[13:26] <mborzecki> zyga-x240: need to do some reding, but we still may need to go through uboot for the extra integration we do with snapd
[13:41] <pedronis> mvo: sorry, battery got empty (though it was telling me I had a few more minutes)
[13:43] <mvo> pedronis: no worries
[13:43] <mvo> pedronis: we just finished anyway, I was just rambling
[13:43]  * zyga-x240 is sorry for shaking the laptop so much, 90C is really hot
[13:56]  * zyga-x240 reboots to fix touchpad
[14:14] <zyga-x240> re
[14:14] <zyga-x240> again, fridge helps :)
[15:08] <zyga-x240> pstolowski: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8960 nice commit message
[15:08] <mup> PR #8960: o/snapstate,servicestate: use service-control task for service actions (9/9) <Needs Samuele review> <Services ⚙> <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8960>
[15:12] <pstolowski> zyga-x240: thanks, trying to help as much as possible with reviews ;)
[15:12] <zyga-x240> :)
[15:54] <mup> PR snapcraft#3199 opened: extensions: introduce flutter-dev <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3199>
[15:54]  * zyga-x240 needs a coffee
[16:21] <cachio>  /me lunch
[19:14] <mup> PR snapcraft#3200 opened: flutter v1 plugin: pull from source-subdir if set <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3200>
[19:17] <mvo> sil2100: sorry for bothering you with snapd SRU topics, but AIUI the validations is fully done and I wonder if we can release snapd to -updates? maybe monday (I understand friday is a bad time)
[22:40] <mup> PR snapcraft#3199 closed: extensions: introduce flutter-dev <enhancement> <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/3199>
[22:59] <mup> PR snapd#8978 opened: secboot: update tpm connection error handling <Created by cmatsuoka> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8978>


[00:10] <elky> Pici, who the heck is this guy?
[00:11] <Pici> elky: I think hes the person who seriously suggested that everyone in #ubuntu-offtopic needed psychological help.
[00:11] <Pici> Not jokingly.
[00:58] <Pici> ikonia: are you ircing in your sleep?
[00:59] <ikonia> no, waiting to go to bed
[00:59] <ikonia> waiting for something to finish
[00:59] <ikonia> almost done
[01:00] <ikonia> how can someone have read the man page to know what options they don't want, but not read the one they do want
[01:29] <Hobbsee> ikonia: anything founded by cjwatson is official, including that one.  it's a dev channel
[01:32] <Hobbsee> ikonia: actually, pretty much anything that follows #ubuntu-*, and is made by a core dev, is definitely official (offshoots from #ubuntu-devel)
[01:32] <Hobbsee> if that helps at all
[01:32] <Pici> Hobbsee: That doesn't mean that the channel isn't defunct though.
[01:33] <Hobbsee> or definitely wanted, and on-topic, anyway
[01:33] <Hobbsee> Pici: that one tends to be, during the time when they're not actively debugging installers (ie, no alphas out at the moment)
[02:56]  * h00k forwards niko to #fix-your-connection
[10:00] <ikonia> not happy with petan advocating downloading binaries/libs from mozilla.org and dumping them over the top of the ubuntu packaged ones
[10:05] <jrib> ikonia: but it worked now.  Never mind the fact in 2 weeks the user will be wondering why everything is bonkers!
[10:08] <ikonia> annoying
[11:23] <popey> whats the policy on people just barking google at users?
[11:24] <Flannel> popey: it's not good
[11:24] <Flannel> !google
[11:24] <popey> ahh, better than the !jfgi i used
[11:24] <popey> thanks
[11:42] <bazhang> is Josh__ just being totally random? or is that me
[13:26] <Pici> Does jdub still do Ubuntu stuff?
[13:32] <ikonia> not seen him active in #ubuntu for a while, that doesn't mean no though
[13:37] <popey> yes, he recently re-applied for ubuntu membership
[13:37] <popey> i believe so his new blog could be syndicated on planet ubuntu
[13:37] <ikonia> cool
[13:38] <popey> don't think he actively 'contributes' (however you measure that) other than blogging / commenting / ranting on identi.ca
[13:39] <ikonia> then how does that work ?
[13:40] <popey> how does what work?
[13:40] <ikonia> if he doesn't do anything (hard to measure) but gets membership
[13:40] <popey> dunno if he got membership
[13:40] <popey> i just know he asked
[13:40] <ikonia> ah
[13:40] <popey> given it had lapsed when he left the project
[13:40] <popey> seems he does have it
[13:40] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~jdub
[13:40] <ikonia> I didnt know he'd left the project
[13:41] <popey> depends how you define left
[13:41] <ikonia> I suppose
[13:41] <popey> he left canonical and at that point he kinda droped off the planet a bit
[13:42] <ikonia> looks like he's back
[13:42] <popey> http://ubuntuedge.wordpress.com/ is his new blog
[13:44] <ikonia> interesting few posts I'm reading
[13:53] <ikonia> ubuXubu is annoying me, he seems to think that having 18 dual boot computers in his basement is an excuse to say anything and make it fact
[14:26] <aborticide> can i be unbanned in #ubuntu ?
[14:34] <jrib> ikonia, jussi: ?
[14:34] <ikonia> aborticide: you asked to actually be banned though
[14:34] <ikonia> aborticide: I have no idea why, but you kept joining this channel and asking to banned in #ubuntu
[14:36] <ikonia> aborticide: hello
[14:37] <aborticide> hi
[14:37] <aborticide> i was away in another window
[14:38] <ikonia> no problem
[14:38] <ikonia> so what was all this business joining this channel and asking if you could be banned from #ubuntu about ?
[14:38] <aborticide> will you help me with a virtualbox problem?
[14:39] <ikonia> can't here, this one isn't a support channel
[14:39] <aborticide> ikonia: i figured it's pointless to fool myself into rejoining every couple of days asking for support since i am muted
[14:39] <ikonia> plus I'm jugging a few things at the moment
[14:39] <aborticide> k
[14:39] <jrib> aborticide: why did you ask to be banned?
[14:39] <ikonia> aborticide: at the time there was no ban/mute showing
[14:39] <ikonia> hence the confusion at why you kept joining #ubuntu-ops asking to be banned
[14:40]  * aborticide wonders if jrib is trying to incite a conflict here
[14:40] <ikonia> you also stated in other channels that you'd do something to get yourself banned that would be "cool" or "funny"
[14:40] <aborticide> yes there was
[14:40] <jrib> aborticide: I'm not, I'm trying to understand why you are banned...
[14:40] <aborticide> are you aware that i already asnwered that question?
[14:40] <aborticide> i guess not, hehe
[14:40] <jrib> nope
[14:40] <aborticide> well why not?
[14:40] <aborticide> obviously you are capable of reading
[14:41] <ikonia> ok, calm down a little, the reason this is hard to understand is we couldn't see a ban/mute for you before
[14:41] <ikonia> hence why you asking to be banned didn't make sense
[14:41] <ikonia> plus it's a little odd that you then suggested in another channel you'd do something to get yourself banned
[14:41] <ikonia> who set a mute on you in #ubuntu and why ?
[14:42] <aborticide> i don't remember, maybe it was you
[14:42] <ikonia> (we really couldn't see anything at the time of your asking)
[14:42] <aborticide> oh it was bahzhang
[14:42] <ikonia> it wasn't me,
[14:42] <ikonia> ok - why
[14:42] <aborticide> don't know
[14:42] <aborticide> he was being a baby
[14:42] <ikonia> really ?
[14:42] <ikonia> so if I look at the logs now, there will be no reason for him to have set a mute on you
[14:42] <ikonia> is that what you're saying ?
[14:42] <aborticide> sure, if it was reasonable i would have just parted ways, seeing as i know i have no chance of appealing it
[14:43] <aborticide> obviously there will be a reason, but it was a baby reason
[14:43] <ikonia> errr you can appeal/resolve it, that's what I'm trying to do now
[14:43] <ikonia> aborticide: ok, please explain the reason you got banned (it's quicker than me going through the logs)
[14:43] <ikonia> sorry - muted
[14:43] <aborticide> i don't remember, really
[14:43] <ikonia> but you know it was a baby reason ?
[14:43] <aborticide> you're the one who is helping me with the kernel, so clearly i'm not trying to waste your time
[14:44] <aborticide> it was a minor conflict
[14:44] <ikonia> I don't think your wasting me time - I've had very reasonable conversations with you in other channels, hence trying to resolve/understand what's gone on
[14:44] <aborticide> i think he intended it to be like a 2minute ban, he wanted me to apologize for it and i didn't
[14:44] <aborticide> so he just left it like that
[14:45] <aborticide> of course i could just lie and fake it
[14:45] <aborticide> that's like the easiest solution
[14:45] <aborticide> but while i'm at i might just start sucking up to freenode staff in hopes of becomming an admin myself
[14:45] <ikonia> aborticide: can you hang on for a minute I'm just trying to find some info (as I said, at the time we couldn't see any)
[14:45] <aborticide> okay
[14:45] <ikonia> drop the attitude, it's not helping, I'm trying to be reasonable and helpful, being silly about it isn't helpful
[14:46] <ikonia> almost there, I may have found someething
[14:47] <aborticide> we don't have to be robotic about it, i've been giving you straight and precise answers
[14:48] <ikonia> I know, I'm not doubting you,
[14:48] <aborticide> you're accusing me of having an attitude, i don't think i have an attitude
[14:49] <ikonia> aborticide: what was the rant about sucking up to freenode staff about ?
[14:49] <aborticide> the only way i could have less of an attitude is if i stopped being a person and started being a robot
[14:49] <ikonia> I don't need to hear that sort of stuff, I'm just being polite and trying to resolve your issue for you
[14:49] <aborticide> it wasn't a rant, i meant it just as it was written; if i wanted immunity in a certain channel i could become friends with the mods and then eventually become a mod, just like how sauvin does in freenode and then he can abuse the rules any way he pleases and not give a damn about anything
[14:49] <ikonia> from what I'm seeing from the logs you where bascially put on a mute (couldn't find it the first time) because of the random noise you where making in channel and a few smart moth comments
[14:50] <aborticide> yes i guess robotic individuals can't see the truth in something i saw unless its ultra technical
[14:50] <ikonia> aborticide: how is any of that relevant to your situation ?