[07:13] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning all
[07:15] <dwatkins> moin moin
[07:20] <AlanBell> o/
[07:23] <dwatkins> \o
[07:29] <knightwise> hey dwatkins
[07:57] <knightwise> hey esther
[07:58] <esther> hi knightwise
[07:59] <knightwise> hey esther , how are you this fine monday morning (Sighs and rubs sleep from eyes)
[08:03] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:09] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:16] <diplo> Morning all
[08:17] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[08:19] <mungbean> hmm. the problem with chrome having separate processes is that they all stay under the radar in "top"
[08:22] <BigRedS_> playing the benchmarks :)
[08:23] <mungbean> used to regularly haev 50+ tabs open on a 2gb machine
[08:23] <mungbean> now i run out of ram on a 4gb one :(
[08:24] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:28] <dwatkins> hihi
[08:40] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Midsummer Day! :)
[08:42] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[08:43] <bigcalm> Morning JamesTait, wasn't that at the weekend?
[08:44] <popey> i thought that, but checked wikipedia before typing ㋛
[08:44] <bigcalm> :P
[08:44] <bigcalm> Who needs facts when you have conviction?
[08:47] <JamesTait> MooDoo, bigcalm, o/
[08:48] <JamesTait> bigcalm, popey, I knew I should have gone with happy Fairy Day!
[08:52] <bigcalm> Heh
[08:55] <DJones> Hmh, Midsummer day and it seems to be the coldest day of the month so far
[08:55] <DJones> Typicla british weather
[08:55] <DJones> Ah, I know the reason, Wimbledon starts today
[08:55] <chalcedony> heh
[08:59] <bigcalm> Wimbledon? Oh fudge
[08:59] <bigcalm> That means it's my birthday soon
[08:59] <popey> nicely done
[09:00] <popey> next you'll "accidentally" post your amazon wishlist ㋛
[09:00] <bigcalm> What's worse is that it'll be my birthday 3 days before and I still haven't got her a gift
[09:00] <popey> (feel free to do that)
[09:00] <bigcalm> popey: You mean this thing? :) http://cuth.eu/wishes
[09:00] <popey> ooh, short url, nice idea!
[09:00] <bigcalm> :D
[09:00] <DJones> Heh, Samsung Player One interface almost looks how I'd expect a Unity interface on Ubuntu phones to look http://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/36/5291/36_5291_2.jpg
[09:01] <DJones> Almost appears to a Unity bar
[09:01] <funkyHat> Bah. Canonical design team never have original ideas!
[09:01] <popey> boom, http://popey.com/wishlist
[09:02] <funkyHat> Oh now that is a good idea
[09:02] <popey> DJones: (it doesn't look like that) ☻
[09:03] <bigcalm> The Apple TV is cheaper than I had expected it to be
[09:03] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colossus-The-Forbin-Project-DVD/dp/B00149XOVS/ref=wl_it_dp_v_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=LXT6MFP2WUWA&coliid=I2GMXAMI1J9QZL love that film
[09:03] <popey> more computers should have blippy bloppy sound effects
[09:04] <bigcalm> 5 pages of wishes?! I hate myself to just buying things when I should throw them on a wishlist
[09:04] <popey> cant parse that
[09:04] <bigcalm> Your wish list goes on for 5 pages
[09:04] <DJones> I'm pretty sure my last HTC phone ended up with with an similar style interface
[09:05] <bigcalm> Mine, I think, is just 1 page at the moment
[09:05] <DJones> bigcalm: Whats the betting some people just use www.amazon.co.uk as their wishlist :)
[09:07] <bigcalm> I need to find more things to put on my wish list
[09:08] <mungbean> i have just the thing
[09:08] <mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Character-Building-Eleventh-Doctor-Collector/dp/B005A54XF8/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1372064923&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=doctor+who+character+building
[09:20] <steveccc> apologies for this question - I know its off topic - using skype on ubuntu and I wondered if anyone from the uk here uses a subscription - I wanted to know what is classed as a landline number - is it just the standard area codes and not 0845 numbers etc?
[09:21] <DJones> steveccc: I would expect it will just be normal numbers and would exclude 0845 number etc
[09:21] <popey> steveccc: i have one
[09:21] <steveccc> popey: may i pm you
[09:21] <popey> you can talk here ☻
[09:22] <popey> not used it recently.. hmm
[09:22]  * popey looks for the skype icon
[09:22] <popey> bah, skype credit expired
[09:23] <dwatkins> "Premium rate numbers: The charges payable for calling premium rate numbers consist of a per-minute rate available at www.skype.com/go/rates-premium. No connection fee is payable."
[09:23] <popey> steveccc: generally landline referrs to numbers which are 01xxxxxx
[09:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think "landline" numbers are not numbers called non-geographic, e.g. 0844, 0845 etc.
[09:23] <dwatkins> It doesn't define what a landline is on that page, as far as I can see, however: http://www.skype.com/en/legal/tou/
[09:24] <steveccc> i have to start home working soon and didnt want to get another landline or use my mobile. The subscription sounds good but if its just pure landlines I am sure it will annoy me more than it works as lots of places these days have "alternative numbers"
[09:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> We use an 0844 number. It's cheap for us but all callers pay national rate call charges.
[09:24] <dwatkins> there's always http://www.saynoto0870.com/
[09:25] <steveccc> i presume if i buy a landline number without the monthly subscriptions that incoming will be working ok
[09:25] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Do you still run a Asterix box ?
[09:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Yes - we run it on a VM at Hetzner in Germany
[09:26] <diplo> oh right, about to play with it myself was wondering if you could recommend a card but I'm guessing you rent sip lines or something
[09:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - we rent IAX2 trunks.
[09:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> No physical cards here ;-)
[09:28] <diplo> I just want a play, will do some googling later and read some reviews
[09:28] <shreyas> hello
[09:28] <steveccc> are there any good alternatives to skype for linux for normal voice calls
[09:29] <czajkowski> steveccc: does it need to be on the desktop
[09:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Years ago I bought a simple analogue card off eBay and ran it in my little via C7 home server.
[09:29] <czajkowski> personally skype does the job perfectly well and I'll never not have it
[09:29] <czajkowski> if you want on your phone, use viber
[09:29] <shreyas> how good is gnome theme
[09:29] <diplo> OK, cheap / simple sounds good to me
[09:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> steveccc: Google Hangouts, SFLPhone (SIP Softfone)
[09:30] <shreyas> .....................................
[09:30] <steveccc> theopensourcerer: does google hangouts to landline calls?
[09:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> steveccc: Dunno actually. Doubt it cause that means there needs to be money involved.
[09:35] <Gary> hi ya, does anyone have any ideas on what I can get my foster-son for his 16th Birthday (which is in less than a month) - money is really tight :'(
[09:36] <mungbean> what does he like doing?
[09:37] <Gary> well, thats the fun bit, he's a bit depressed and stuff (hense him being my fosterkid) and doesn't do much/he's a bit withdrawn
[09:37] <mungbean> sounds like my wife's foster bro
[09:37] <Gary> he is getting better, at least he talks and leaves his room now!
[09:38] <mungbean> being a teenager sucks
[09:38] <mungbean> except for summer holidays
[09:38] <Gary> but trying to get interests/wants out of him is entertaining
[09:38] <mungbean> raspberry pi?
[09:39] <mungbean> maybe source a screen/keyboard/mouse from friends for free
[09:40] <Gary> he's recently accidently broken the screen on a old handmedown laptop, but I cannot afford a new one for him
[09:40] <mungbean> which model?
[09:42] <Gary> I think it is a HP 6730p
[09:42] <Gary> I'd have to check though
[09:44]  * christel hugs Gary
[09:44] <Gary> :-)
[10:02] <bigcalm> Is it just me, or does chromium not like Sound Cloud?
[10:03] <bigcalm> christel: something for your aural senses https://soundcloud.com/weebl/pills
[10:07] <popey> bigcalm: yeah, i had that, some problem with the plugins or something
[10:08] <bigcalm> popey: not really worth my time to mess about with it. Firefox is playing it okay :)
[10:10] <bigcalm> Is it worth ditching chromium and installing chrome?
[10:11]  * popey shrugs
[10:11] <popey> i use chromium
[10:11] <bigcalm> Oh, I thought you had chrome
[10:13] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:15] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[10:16] <bigcalm> davmor2: are you still using stock vendor on your SGS3? If so, have you yet had the system freeze on you?
[10:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's mostly switched off now as I am using ubuntu phone on my galaxy nexus.  I've had it reboot a few times but not freeze, I'd ring your provider to be honest
[10:17] <popey> \o/
[10:18] <bigcalm> Ho hum
[10:19]  * popey flashes his phone
[10:20] <davmor2> popey: Ubuntu touch is beginning to rock more each day :)  I showed a business owner it over the weekend he was gob smacked how much had been done in such a short time :)
[10:21] <mungbean> any recent vids of it?
[10:22] <BigRedS> I'm tempted to stick Ubuntu on my now-superceded Galaxy S 2
[10:22] <davmor2> popey: he loved a couple of things about it, the keyboard wasn't tiny, and the full screen layout,  I showed him the design for the calendar (I know he uses his a hell of a lot) and he loved it :)
[10:22] <BigRedS> then I'd essentially have a tablet that's smaller than my phone
[10:22] <BigRedS> anyone know if the build tools all Just Work in Debian?
[10:25] <davmor2> BigRedS: I've no idea but popey  might be able to answer that better
[10:27] <BigRedS> I'd assumed it was just dump a zip on the sd card and tell clockworkmod to install it, but all the instructions look a lot more involved :/
[10:27] <BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I could RTFM though :)
[10:28] <mungbean> would ubuntu phone work on my hp touchpad yet?
[10:28] <BigRedS> I recall xnox mentioning that all the ubuntu tools were just wrappers around adb and friends, so I guess at worst I need to work out what they're calling
[10:29] <BigRedS> mungbean: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[10:29] <davmor2> BigRedS: you can do it that way too, the phablet flash tools actually just makes life easier :)
[10:29] <BigRedS> easier than copying a zip file?
[10:29] <davmor2> BigRedS: oh I just thought you can't use phablet flash so you would need to follow the steps on xda/ubuntu wiki probably
[10:30] <BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I gues half the instructions are to get cm and stuff installed, assuming a locked device with stock bootloader etc.
[10:30] <davmor2> BigRedS: phablet-flash in a terminal is really easy  for me :)
[10:30] <xnox> BigRedS: well, yeah.... one can use just plain adb to install ubuntu touch without and phablet-flash and etc: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Manual_Installation
[10:30] <popey> BigRedS: yes, it's just dump a zip file on
[10:31] <BigRedS> Oh. cool
[10:31] <popey> mungbean: if someone has ported it
[10:31] <BigRedS> see, this is why I never get as far as bothering to rtfm - I wonder out loud in IRC and several people give me the answers :)
[10:31] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[10:31] <popey> hah
[10:32] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/tenderloin
[10:32] <popey> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2175277
[10:33] <mungbean> wondering if it will trash my CM install
[10:33] <BigRedS> probably
[10:33] <mungbean> i hate forums
[10:33] <mungbean> skiiming the pages
[10:33] <mungbean> they are waiting for 13.04, works for 12.10
[10:34] <BigRedS> which reminds me, I'm almost completely sold on stock androids now. Few days into stock firmware on my GS3 and I'm absolutely loving how much more stable and less clunky it is
[10:36] <mungbean> p12 has a git link
[10:37] <mungbean> xda people can't help but give terse instructions
[10:37] <mungbean> as if they have a bus to catch
[10:37] <BigRedS> I've always found those helpful. They say exactly what you need to do and nothing more
[10:39] <mungbean> no because on p4 there's some cirtical info that doesn't ever make it to the first post
[10:39] <popey> indeed, forums suck. all of them. with no exceptions
[10:39] <mungbean> s/forums/tech forums/
[10:40] <popey> nah, all
[10:40] <mungbean> modelling forums do the job
[10:40] <popey> i have a prolem with my volvo
[10:40] <popey> same thing, solution is on page 11 of 12
[10:40] <mungbean> yep
[10:40] <BigRedS> they're good for being a forum, less so for being a technical reference
[10:40] <bigcalm> popey: my phone froze when I tried to view the image about fiddling with your phone
[10:41] <popey> hah, irony
[10:41] <bigcalm> Love it
[10:41] <mungbean> modelling forums it works because there's no problems  just chit chat and work in progress, and final build shots etc
[10:41] <mungbean> no critical answers,
[10:41] <BigRedS> I use two forums regularly. One of them I find asolutely fine annd the other's only an issue because its 'style' makes my eyes bleed. But I use them entirely socially so I don't care where the 'solution' is, it's just a conversation
[10:42] <mungbean> obv except for the "whats the best airbrush, ZZZ posts"
[12:59] <mungbean> anyone else with firefox audio stuttering, requiring pulseaudio kill each time?
[13:00] <mungbean> watching gangnam style ghostbusters mashuop..seems to work
[13:03] <popey> never use firefox
[13:03] <mungbean> chrome does it 2x speed instead
[13:04] <mungbean> until PA restarted
[13:23] <awilkins> My problem with pulse is if I skip around in a video file it gets into a corrupt state and plays nothing but broken frames
[13:33] <popey> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/laptops-netbooks/laptops/chromebooks/samsung-series-3-wifi-chromebook-silver-19273050-pdt.html
[13:34] <popey> chromebook dropped in price
[13:34] <popey> (arm)
[13:34] <mungbean> is that the discountinued one?
[13:39] <popey> dunno
[13:40] <Gary> I could get one of them for the fosterkid!
[13:40] <Gary> as long as he can see farcebook and boobtube he;ll be happy
[13:42] <mungbean> there's lots of things my 16yr old self would love doing, but i'm not/was not every 16yr old
[13:45] <mungbean> how much work can you do offline on a chrome book? e.g. documents
[13:48] <Gary> not sure really
[13:48] <Gary> I'd really want to nip into pcworld and try one
[13:51] <MooDoo> Gary: I do that all the time at our local pc world, still can't afford one though
[13:52] <Gary> well I can't either, but it is his 16th soon and I might be able to extort money out of his mother and father
[13:53] <mungbean> if i had summer hlidays at my disposal, i'd be making this: http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21527&hilit=a50009
[13:54] <mungbean> kids are all xbox nowadays :(
[13:58] <Gary> airfix stuff is great
[13:58] <mungbean> yeah
[13:58] <mungbean> a noble hobby
[13:58] <Gary> Daniel used to do warhammer stuff, till it got too uncool
[13:59] <MooDoo> I love warhammer 40k :)
[13:59] <mungbean> i think others progress onto gangpla jap robots
[13:59] <mungbean> or WWII airfix etc
[13:59] <mungbean> cool is only what's defined by critical mass of people anyway, but means everything to teenagers
[14:00] <mungbean> MooDoo: what's 40k?
[14:01] <mungbean> ah, tabletop game
[14:01] <mungbean> LOTR warhammer must be considered cool by everyone :D
[14:03] <MooDoo> mungbean: warhammer 40k is space marines set in the far future
[14:04] <MooDoo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000
[14:04] <mungbean> dressing up as legolas to play lotr version seems compulsory... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Mr_Rose/WotR/m2060051_P1Mb3.jpg
[14:08] <diplo> Python people in here ? New to it, but basically wrote a simple script with urllib.urlretrieve to grab 1600+ images from a supplier but it's slooow
[14:08] <diplo> Guessing it's because it's opening a new connection to each image each time.. any way of keeping a session open some how ?
[14:10] <mgdm> the option you want is called 'keepalive', but I've no idea if urllib supports it
[14:11] <diplo> ta, I'll read their docs
[14:22] <MooDoo> diplo, you'e not the messaih you're a very naughty boy, wrong python?
[14:24] <BigRedS> Same python, isn't it?
[14:24] <BigRedS> well, the one named after the other
[14:28] <mgdm> Indeed
[14:29] <diplo> :)
[14:32]  * czajkowski pokes davmor2
[14:34]  * MooDoo gives czajkowski a cattle prod...and welcome back
[14:35] <diplo> bah, finished now anyway.. urllib3 seems the way to go but I'm not I can be bothered to re-write it
[14:36] <diplo> that was the helpful thing to search for mgdm so thanks for the input
[14:52] <mungbean> are NS&I accounts still worth getting for kids?
[15:12] <bigcalm> mungbean: if you're willing to put in a good chunk of money
[15:13] <bigcalm> I've got some money locked away in an account. It's "won" £25 in the last 6 years
[15:13] <mungbean> discovered the halifax one is 3% for kids
[15:14] <mungbean> banks are the worst kind of ripoff now
[15:14]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski with a small lump of charcoal :)
[15:14] <mungbean> in the olden days at least interest rates on old accounts wouldnt go to 0.1%
[15:16] <christel> i think halifax does a no-withdrawal one that is modelled loosely on the old child trust fund setup which has a slightly better interest rate
[15:16] <christel> 6% fixed iirc
[15:16] <mungbean> hmm
[15:17] <christel> (unless that has changed since i last looked)
[15:18] <mungbean> ah yes christel
[15:18] <mungbean> its a regular investment capped at 100pm for 1 yr
[15:18] <mungbean> so have to move after 1 yr
[15:19] <mungbean> or you get screwed as usual
[15:19] <mungbean> i was thinking more along lines of 3k in a kiddies account and leave to simmer for 20 years
[15:19]  * czajkowski tickles davmor2 missing me yet
[15:19] <davmor2> czajkowski: who are you?
[15:21] <christel> mungbean: aah! that is a bit rubbish
[15:22] <christel> i have various savings accounts for the boy wonder but i am not very clued up about what they do/are -- i have a financial advisor who just tells me how to save in the most tax-efficient manner!
[15:22] <diplo> Save? Wats that word mean?!?!?
[15:22] <diplo> :P
[15:23] <davmor2> christel: Save you mean you have money left once you pay your amazon bill ;)
[15:23] <mungbean> its all very stressful
[15:23] <christel> davmor2: i dont use amazon! :P
[15:24] <christel> but yes, i am fortunate enough in my old age to have reached a point where my income far outweighs my outgoings so i figured it was wise to plan ahead for stuff like sending kids to uni and what not! ;)
[15:25] <mungbean> however at todays rates, 3k in saving at birth will equal 3056.64 at uni time :(
[15:27] <davmor2> mungbean: well that's their beer fund for the first term whats wrong with that ;)
[15:29] <christel> davmor2: you're optimistic! in 20 years time 3K will only buy you a half...
[15:30] <mungbean> it still doesn't make me give up and spend it though
[15:30] <mungbean> which is the govts wish
[15:32] <christel> :)
[15:38] <davmor2> mungbean: at 3% in an isa you would be closer to £5000 I think
[15:39] <mungbean> but with inflation..
[15:44] <davmor2> mungbean: what will you care you'll be soylent green by then any way ;)
[15:49] <mungbean> in 20 yrs ? :(
[15:49] <Laney> 3% in an ISA
[15:49] <Laney> ho ho ho ho
[15:50] <Laney> I could only get 2.8 including a 1 year bonus this financial year :(
[15:50] <mungbean> i got 4.5 last year, i wonder if i can trasnfer in
[15:51] <davmor2> mungbean: and if you're lucky that will be worth a barmy 3 intergalactic units or £1.50
[15:51] <Laney> managed to get a whopping 3% in december
[15:51] <Laney> (including bonus too)
[15:51] <Laney> that closed to new deposits when this financial year started
[15:51] <mungbean> my inflation is much higher
[15:52] <mungbean> can i transfer an ISA twice in a year?
[15:52] <mungbean> Interest rate: 4.25% Gross
[15:53] <mungbean> could be an epic win as i've been putting into one since they began
[15:53] <Laney> yeah now you have to ditch & switch every year
[15:53] <Laney> irritating
[15:54] <mungbean> just a tad
[16:01] <feisar> hi, just installed 13.04 on a netbook for a friend but it's pretty much unusable due to the graphics, is there anyway to fix that or is Ubuntu no use for netbooks anymore?
[16:12] <brobostigon> feisar: i wouldnt use unity on a netbook, try something abit lighter on its reources, like xfce, for example.
[16:14] <feisar> brobostigon: yeah thanks, that's actually what I do for myself but this guy likes ubuntu (and unity) and it's a shame if I have to put him back on 12.04
[16:14] <brobostigon> feisar: you dont need to go back, just install xfce on 13.04
[16:15] <feisar> brobostigon: but xfce is not what this guys used to, it's quite different from Unity
[16:16] <brobostigon> feisar: i am sure, there are probably ways of making unity abit lighter on resources, i dont use unity myself, but many here do, i am sure someone can help.
[16:16] <feisar> it takes 15 seconds to bring up the dash
[16:22] <dwatkins> is unity used on the netbook version of ubuntu?
[16:25] <dwatkins> my netbook ran everything better after being upgraded to 2 GB of RAM
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> more RAM is always useful;
[16:30] <feisar> I don't think it's the problem here (or enough of the problem). I'm gunna have to give this guy 12.04
[16:32] <feisar> he uses dropbox which doesn't integrate with Thunar so xfce is not a real option
[16:33] <brobostigon> try gnome3, dropbox works with nautilus last i looked.
[16:35] <feisar> can I just apt-get install gnome3?
[16:36] <brobostigon> !info gnome-shell
[16:36] <brobostigon> !gnome-shell
[16:38] <feisar> ok, I gave him a call and he's willing to try xubuntu
[16:39] <feisar> but I'm guessing I need to install nautilus so he gets a decent experience with dropbox
[16:40] <brobostigon> sudo apy-get install xubuntu nautilus       m job done.
[16:40] <brobostigon> correct my mistakes.
[16:42] <feisar> thanks, will it be the default then?
[16:43] <brobostigon> it might replace the login manager, but you will be able to choose unity etc on login like normal.
[16:44] <feisar> I mean , if I install xubuntu how do I then make nautilus default?
[16:45] <brobostigon> feisar: you should be able to change in xfce's preferences which it uses as default.
[16:45] <feisar> ok thanks
[16:46] <brobostigon> as you can in gnome's preferences.
[16:46] <brobostigon> although, i have not tried it in xfce.
[17:39] <Azelphur> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c02903601 hmm, this looks a tad worrying
[17:39] <Azelphur> especially since I just turned it on xD
[18:13] <Azelphur> Hey folks, fresh Ubuntu 13.04 installation on my new microserver, ethernet ain't working. :( lshw -c network says that the interface is "disabled", and it doesn't show up in ifconfig, ideas?
[18:15] <DJones> Any bios switch for it
[18:16] <Azelphur> DJones: wouldn't think it would be turned off by default, this is brand new ootb hardware
[18:21] <Azelphur> http://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur there we go, you can see whats going on now.
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> NO U STREAM TV
[18:21] <Azelphur> D:
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or, when it goes down: Y U NO STREAM TV
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: No such device -> no cable?
[18:23] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, nope, cables in and ethernet light is on
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ip link ; ip -s link
[18:23] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, seems to call it em1, interesting
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: oh is it bsd?
[18:24] <Azelphur> nope, this is ubuntu server 13.04
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> because fedora 15 seems to do this as well
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> for "embedded on the motherboard" ports
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> or something
[18:25] <Azelphur> I see
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> you want to look for 'consistent device naming'
[18:25] <Azelphur> I don't have anything in /etc/network/interfaces for em1
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> i.e. a udev rule of some kind :)
[18:25] <Azelphur> so perhaps that's why
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2146205
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's good, that means network-manager manages it.. unless it's a server install that tends to be what you want
[18:27] <Azelphur> it's a server install
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: check /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[18:27] <Azelphur> righto
[18:28] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, haha fixed it, yup, em1 stuff in /etc/networking.
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: but check the persistent-net.rules
[18:28] <Azelphur> it's empty.
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> that would explain it then :)
[18:29] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:29] <Azelphur> I think it's because I didn't auto configure networking during install actually, all I had to do was put the entry in the network file
[18:29] <Azelphur> and off it went
[18:30] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, take a look at the hardware, not bad for 70 quid :)
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: how? where?
[18:31] <Azelphur> you not on the ustream
[18:31] <Azelphur> ?
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> yes but I saw a screen :)
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> is that one of the HP boxes?
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> microservers
[18:31] <Azelphur> yup
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> shiny
[18:31] <Azelphur> :D
[18:31] <Azelphur> not bad for 70 quid
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> not at all
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> what kind of spec (cpu, etc.)
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> Are those 4 SATA hotswap bays?
[18:32] <Azelphur> 4 sata bays, non hot swap
[18:32] <ali1234> i thought sata was always hotswap
[18:32] <Azelphur> AMD Turion II Neo N54L Dual core 2.2ghz
[18:33] <Azelphur> it's got a big-ass label on it saying no hotswap
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> meh.. I even have a hotswap bay in my Cooler Master case
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> works fine
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> Is that you in the frame?
[18:34] <Azelphur> yea they are all labeled "non hot plug HDD"
[18:34] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, yup
[18:35] <Azelphur> so yea that's done anyway, now to play with it and set up samba and such
[18:51] <SuperEngineer> I asked this last night but didn't follow up. So: what is the difference between minecraft.net & minecraft.org [is one a false link]?
[18:51] <SuperEngineer> [thinking of trying Minecraft but don't fancy going where only evil people tread]
[18:51] <ali1234> minecraft.net is the real one
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> .org seems to be a site for addon packs
[18:52] <SuperEngineer> thanks ali1234, MartijnVdS
[18:53] <SuperEngineer> is it worth trying the free [from Software Centre] Minetest clone... to see if it's to my taste?
[18:55] <SuperEngineer> ...or stick to the real game & hope
[18:59] <popey> no harm trying minetest
[19:00] <SuperEngineer> if it's close enough to see if it's "within my test" - that's cool... will give it a go 1st
[19:00] <SuperEngineer> sub test/taste - sorry
[19:02] <advancedgarde> Evening.
[19:02]  * brobostigon used to run his own minetest server,
[19:03] <advancedgarde> So, after extensive testing, I phoned WD about my faulty HDD and it's going to be replaced under warenty.
[19:04] <advancedgarde> Can anyone recommend any good software for (relatively) securely erasing the data before I ship it?
[19:04] <brobostigon> dd
[19:05] <advancedgarde> is dd secure?
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> dd just overwrites
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> which is secure
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> why wouldn't it be?
[19:06] <advancedgarde> Hmm, I was under the impression it was better to overwite your data with some random non repeating patterns.
[19:07] <brobostigon>  /dev/null :)
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> advancedgarde: you could send the drive a "secure erase" command
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
[19:07] <advancedgarde> I thought that was just SSDs
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> advancedgarde: secure erase is for all ATA drives that support it
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> you may be thinking of TRIM
[19:08] <advancedgarde> That is cool, I did not know it applied to conventional HDDs
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> advancedgarde: anyway, that wiki page explains how to secure-erase a (S)ATA Drive
[19:08] <advancedgarde> Thank you.
[19:09] <awilkins> AFAIK `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/disktowipe` is secure enough also
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: unless the receiver has access to some VERY expensive equipment, and knows what kind of thing he's looking for
[19:10] <awilkins> All the stuff about there being traces of previous writes was true of older disks with much larger magnetic domains
[19:10] <awilkins> But I bet you that even modern data recovery labs are hard-pressed to get data back from a zero-wiped platter
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> true
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> 1TB platters are *insane*
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: but a proper ATA secure erase can't hurt :)
[19:11] <advancedgarde> awilkins, I agree with you completly and also doubt that I have anything of interest to anyone at WD on my drive. Also it's a 2TB drive so ...
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: by the firmware itself
[19:11] <awilkins> Nope,. can't hurt
[19:12] <awilkins> And will be fastest possible speed
[19:12] <advancedgarde> Sounds perfect.
[19:12] <awilkins> The fastest way to secure wipe a drive is to use full disk encryption and then wipe the keyblock
[19:13] <awilkins> Providing your encryption scheme was secure in the first place, you end up with a drive that should be indistinguishable from random noise
[19:14] <awilkins> Our "secure" flash drive vendor plays on our fears and says we should physically destroy them when we're done with them
[19:14] <awilkins> Rather than just reformatting the things
[19:14] <awilkins> (they are cheap nasty flash drives with a plaintext partition for the drivers)
[19:15] <awilkins> (they charge £64 for a 2GB one - I literally can't even buy 2GB flash drives anymore)
[19:15] <advancedgarde> awilkins, at the risk of sounding as if I have somehting to hide, I've heard that if I encrypt my and the government want to know what's on there that legally I must provide the key. What would happen if I did as you said, would we end up with a drive that could not be decrypted?
[19:15] <SuperEngineer> advancedgarde: ever heard of a de-gauser?
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: *zap*
[19:15] <ali1234> advancedgarde: yes
[19:15] <awilkins> advancedgarde, Well, you could claim you like to collect random noise
[19:16] <awilkins> advancedgarde, Another response to that threat is a plausible deniability partition
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: "I'm a connoisseur of random noise"
[19:16] <awilkins> advancedgarde, Where you have an encrypted volume inside another one
[19:16] <advancedgarde> hidden as data files?
[19:16] <awilkins> TrueCrypt has this feature
[19:16] <awilkins> No, hidden at the end of the block
[19:17] <awilkins> So the outer volume looks like a normal file system occupying that size of space
[19:17] <awilkins> You mount the outer volume read-only in normal use, then mount the inner volume
[19:17] <awilkins> Set it up so there's something mildly embarassing / private/ confidential in the outer volume
[19:18] <awilkins> So there's a reason for you to have encrypted it
[19:18] <awilkins> Of course, the spooks KNOW about this approach
[19:18] <awilkins> But they can't prove it
[19:19] <awilkins> And it's lot more plausible to say "no, there isn't an nested volume" than "no, that huge block of random noise is just the output of some astronomical sensors aimed at empty space"
[19:19] <ali1234> what if i actually have a large amount of random looking data?
[19:20] <awilkins> ali1234, Then you go to jail for 2 years, I think
[19:20] <advancedgarde> Yes. Probably even more plausible to respond with "What's a nested volume?".
[19:20] <awilkins> Heh, the spooks already know that we know now
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lRldr2BH2M
[19:21]  * awilkins waves at the PRISM / ECHELON guys
[19:21] <ali1234> does anyone have a good system for handling "old" files?
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: rm -rf
[19:21] <ali1234> you know when you make a new homedir
[19:21] <ali1234> and rename the old one "old" and put it inside the old "old" one
[19:21] <ali1234> and keep doing that for like 15 years
[19:21] <advancedgarde> That's what I do.
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> so you have old/old/old/old/username
[19:22] <ali1234> yes
[19:22] <ali1234> pretty much
[19:22] <ali1234> it's like 100GB now and i need to sort it
[19:22] <advancedgarde> Everynow and then I move them to a new folder called "back".
[19:22] <mungbean> have you used it?
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: take a week off work, sort ~
[19:22] <ali1234> yeah thing is i don't want to do it manually
[19:22] <ali1234> i need some software to do it for me
[19:22] <awilkins> Heh, I restore my old home folder backup to a folder in my new home folder too
[19:22] <awilkins> I move anything that's still relevant out
[19:23] <mungbean> remove firefox caches and profiles etc, maybe its the 80-20 rule
[19:23] <ali1234> yeah so do i. but that's normally just .ssh and .mozilla
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> ~/Music
[19:23] <awilkins> Yeah, so I can probably lose quite a lot of that restore folder
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> and those other xdg dirs
[19:23] <awilkins> ~/Music is on an external volume
[19:23] <ali1234> i don't keep music in my homedir
[19:24] <mungbean> 80% of dpace taken by 20% so du usually finds the nulk, and 20% leave until never
[19:24] <ali1234> i don't use any of the standard folders actually
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: is that Welsh?
[19:24] <awilkins> My music is on an external drive and synced (manually) with my other devices
[19:24] <mungbean> dpace=space nulk=bulk
[19:24] <mungbean> babytyping
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> :)
[19:25] <ali1234> so i'm thinking hash all the files to remove duplicates
[19:25] <advancedgarde> I was talking about doing exactly the same thing about 2 hours ago with my dad ...
[19:26] <ali1234> then libextract to get kkeywords
[19:26] <mungbean> quite easy to find matches in a du list and a sum'd list
[19:26] <ali1234> but then i don't know what to do after that
[19:26] <ali1234> maybe heuristic to find source directories, there's probably a lot of those
[19:26] <mungbean> it might not matter if u already have the big stuff from a du -ks | sort -n
[19:27] <awilkins> Trash anything that is a version controlled folder with no local changes
[19:27] <ali1234> there are no big files
[19:27] <mungbean> 100gb?
[19:27] <ali1234> i wasn't exagerating when i said 15 years
[19:28] <mungbean> 10gb per upgrade i suppose
[19:28] <mungbean> archive it?
[19:28] <ali1234> it already is archived
[19:28] <ali1234> the problem is finding things
[19:28] <mungbean> you regularly do that?
[19:28] <mungbean> find thingds?
[19:28] <ali1234> yes
[19:29] <mungbean> wonder if tracker finds dupes
[19:29] <ali1234> tracker can't handle it
[19:29] <advancedgarde> I'm going to go eat dinner. Thanks for the help ^^
[19:30] <ali1234> i will write my own db for it
[19:31] <AlanBell> ali1234: I have a fairly deep tree of /home/alan/Desktop/stuff/stuff/stuff/stuff where I have done the tidyup
[19:32] <ali1234> i've been tidying it for years
[19:32] <ali1234> that's why there's no longer any big files
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> I have several directories where I keep files that are hard/impossible to replace
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> others I just delete
[19:33] <AlanBell> I only have 1.4G on the desktop and below
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> my desktop is 8k.. a link to steam
[19:33] <dwatkins> can I make alt+\ switch windows within a particular application, e.g. between terminals in Unity?
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: alt+` does that
[19:34] <dwatkins> aha thanks MartijnVdS :)
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: so I guess you can rebind it in the keyboard preferences
[19:34] <mungbean> realised i only read twitter 1x per week, or maybe longer now
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: barbarian!
[19:36] <ali1234> 199G	.
[19:36] <ali1234> hmm it's growing
[19:37] <mungbean> what size are top 10 files?
[19:37] <ali1234> how do i find out?
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: baobab
[19:38] <ali1234> that doesn't show files at all
[19:39] <mungbean> start with du -ks * | sort -n | head
[19:39] <mungbean> du -ks * | sort -rn | head
[19:39] <ali1234> that only lists the directories
[19:40] <mungbean> depends how nested, hmm
[19:41] <mungbean> du -x / | sort -rn | head ?
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ls -lRS | sort -n -k 5
[19:41] <mungbean> du -x  | sort -rn | head ?
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> that would work
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> mungbean wins :)
[19:42] <ali1234> again that just lists directories
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> du -x lists everything right?
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> ah
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> du -ax
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> ^
[19:42] <ali1234> the biggest file is 20301996	./phablet-dev
[19:43] <ali1234> hmm my bad
[19:43] <ali1234> the biggest file is 63008864	./crapola/al-old/Old
[19:43] <ali1234> then 32031244	./crapola/al-old/Old/ooo
[19:43] <ali1234> then 32031240	./crapola/al-old/Old/ooo/Old
[19:43] <ali1234> and so on
[19:43] <mungbean> ax
[19:43] <ali1234> i'll just write some code to sort it
[19:44] <mungbean> check that ax also reads . files
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: du -ax ~ should do that
[19:45] <mungbean> yep
[19:45] <ali1234> ax outputs exactly the same
[19:45] <mungbean> .wine naughty
[19:46] <mungbean> GOG.com/IL-2 Sturmovik 1946
[19:46] <mungbean> 6gb
[19:49] <mungbean> guys, apt-get install ncdu
[19:49] <mungbean> you will not regret it
[19:49] <popey> !info ncdu
[19:50] <mungbean> amazing
[19:50] <popey> cute
[19:50]  * popey adds that to command line love
[19:50] <ali1234> find Old/ -type f -exec ./extract.py {} \; | tee filedata.txt
[19:50] <mungbean> \o/
[19:51] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796503/ <- extract.py
[19:51] <mungbean> "This week's command line love comes from mungbean in irc"..would make me lol to hear that on the radio show
[19:52] <ali1234> 200GB so this should take about ... 2 days
[19:56] <ali1234> hmm i found some big "files" :)
[19:56] <mungbean> ali1234 is going to jail for 2yrs
[19:57] <ali1234> .cache is rather big and i have many
[19:57] <mungbean> random data, sir? a likely story , off to the nick
[19:57] <mungbean> .cache is big on mine too
[19:57] <mungbean> chromium
[19:57] <mungbean> apr 2012 last used
[19:58]  * AlanBell has a clean desktop again
[19:58] <AlanBell> apart from one folder called "Desktop Stuff"
[19:59] <ali1234> deleting all the cache directories recovered 6 GB
[19:59] <ali1234> 194GB to go
[20:01] <mungbean> old picasa 2 dbs
[20:01] <mungbean> google suck
[20:01] <mungbean> all these non standard locations
[20:02] <ali1234> 2200724 files
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's getting better though
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: stuff is in ~/.config now and ~/.cache
[20:02] <awilkins> NTFS would pitch a hissy fit if you did that to it
[20:03] <ali1234> what?
[20:03] <awilkins> fed it over 2 million files
[20:03] <ali1234> make lots of nested backups?
[20:03] <ali1234> oh
[20:03] <ali1234> well linux doesn't do much better
[20:04] <ali1234> try putting 100000 files in a directory, then entering the directory and pressing tab twice
[20:04] <ali1234> 3123 filedata.txt - 1.5% scanned :)
[20:05] <awilkins> At least the userspace tools on Linux can cope with paths longer than 240 chars
[20:06] <awilkins> FAT has a limit... but NTFS has no such limit ... but all the userspace tools (and maybe the APIs) still verify the limit
[20:06] <awilkins> Which is silly, especially given Window's penchant for unncessarily long path names
[20:06] <awilkins> "Documents and Settings\username\My Documents" I'm looking at you
[20:07] <mungbean> wonder if its worth watching the mary celsete prog on yesterday channel
[20:11] <ali1234> ooo i found my second life login
[20:16] <ali1234> down to 168GB after deleting several old kernels and tianocore
[20:21] <awilkins> Ahh, Second Life.
[20:22] <awilkins> I used to tool around with an avatar that wore a dragons head and claws, black keratin skeletal wings
[20:22] <awilkins> And fly a lot
[20:22] <ali1234> my dude has a ridiculous afro and shades
[20:23] <awilkins> Then I landed on one of those islands that's mostly very strange pr0n
[20:23] <awilkins> Accidentally, 'natch
[20:23] <diplo> evening all, never played Second Life
[20:27] <ali1234> i'm down to 147GB/1.4M files
[20:29] <diplo> :D
[20:42] <mungbean> i would love a tv programme like this for the UK
[20:42] <mungbean> http://www.travelchannel.com/video/rocket-firing-boba-fett
[20:43] <mungbean> james may goes into peoples attics to find crusty old rare toys
[20:45] <GentileBen> That's still a lot of porn, ali1234.
[20:54] <Azelphur> are unmounted drives supposed to show up in blkid?
[21:04] <Azelphur> having quite a bit of trouble getting them to mount at all actually, wondering if it's because they are 3TB drives
[21:04] <Azelphur> they worked fine when I had them in the USB enclosure
[21:14] <awilkins> Azelphur, block device is a block device, surely?
[21:15] <Azelphur> awilkins: you'd think, trying mount /dev/sdb1 /media/disk, and it says that it can't determine the filesystem type
[21:15] <Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796684/ fdisk output
[21:15] <ali1234> well did yo format it?
[21:16] <awilkins> Not encrypted are they?
[21:16] <awilkins> (no, they worked fine in the USB thing)
[21:16] <Azelphur> ali1234: it has data on it from when it was a USB drive
[21:16] <Azelphur> and yea, they worked fine in USB
[21:16] <ali1234> what does dmesg say
[21:16] <awilkins> Not a sector size mismatch thing is it
[21:17] <Azelphur> [ 7105.684109] FAT-fs (sdb1): bogus number of reserved sectors
[21:17] <Azelphur> [ 7105.684206] FAT-fs (sdb1): Can't find a valid FAT filesystem
[21:17] <ali1234> well it isn't fat
[21:17] <awilkins> I've seen USB drives that had an odd block size before - the controller isn't doing weird stuff?
[21:17] <ali1234> not if it is 3TB
[21:17] <Azelphur> yea
[21:17] <Azelphur> I think it's exFAT
[21:19] <Azelphur> wondering if it's because they are 3tb?
[21:19] <ali1234> they were 3tb in the usb enclosure tho...
[21:20] <Azelphur> that's true, they were
[21:20] <Paladine> thanks for the tweet popey
[21:20] <Azelphur> this is a new box I'm plugging them into too, but they were plugged into a Ubuntu machine fine before
[21:20] <awilkins> Not the USB controller doing funky stuff with the blocks is it?
[21:21] <Azelphur> no idea
[21:21] <awilkins> Doing LBA with different block counts to compensate for them being 3TB drives
[21:21] <Azelphur> http://www.ebuyer.com/384256-seagate-3tb-expansion-desktop-hard-drive-stbv3000200?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CK3giu7P_bcCFaXMtAodCQ8ALg it's a pair of these
[21:21] <awilkins> I think I've only got up to 2TB drives :-Z
[21:22] <popey> np Paladine
[21:23] <Paladine> back shortly
[21:25] <Azelphur> ali1234: so any ideas?
[21:25] <ali1234> probably the USB controller
[21:26] <Azelphur> back in the enclosure, backup, reformat? *sigh*
[21:33] <awilkins> Take note of the block metrics in the enclosure too
[21:33] <awilkins> Will be interesting if nothing else
[21:41] <Azelphur> awilkins: what do you wanna know? it's in the enclosure now
[21:42] <awilkins> What's the output of fdisk again
[21:43] <Azelphur> awilkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796764/ it's sdb
[21:44] <awilkins> You can see the problem right there
[21:44] <Azelphur> yea?
[21:44] <awilkins> Check the logical sector size and sector counts
[21:44] <awilkins> Compared to your old fdisk http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796684/
[21:45] <Azelphur> 4096 byte sectors?
[21:45] <Azelphur> so the usb thing breaks the 4096 sectors into 512s
[21:45] <awilkins> Yeah, attached to the SATA port they are 512 byte sectors
[21:45] <Azelphur> oh
[21:45] <awilkins> On the USB they are 4096
[21:45] <Azelphur> right, anyway, suggestions on what partitioning to use now? :P
[21:46] <Azelphur> I have one ready to repartition, then I'll move the data and do the other one
[21:46] <awilkins> Back it up and repartition it on the SATA
[21:46] <Azelphur> yea I'm repartitioning on the sata
[21:46] <awilkins> That's the problem - your partition tables are right for 4096 byte sectors, not 512 byte ones
[21:46] <Azelphur> indeed :)
[21:47] <awilkins> Well, do they have to share with Windows?
[21:47] <Azelphur> awilkins: got one on USB (has data) and one the SATA (no data) ready to be repartitioned
[21:47] <Azelphur> awilkins: only via samba and such.
[21:47] <awilkins> Right, so you can choose a native linux FS
[21:47] <Azelphur> their new permanent home is inside my fileserver
[21:47] <Azelphur> yup
[21:48] <awilkins> I would probably just go for ext4 because it's the default and I have no special needs
[21:48] <awilkins> In the past I've used reiser and xfs but for particular applications
[21:48] <Azelphur> sounds cool, do I need to do anything special regarding partition tables for 3tb drives
[21:48] <Azelphur> I'm sure I remembr reading about them needing to be GPT
[21:48] <awilkins> xfs for a mythtv server because it deletes large files with small cost
[21:48] <Azelphur> awilkins: this is movie storage much like mythtv
[21:49] <Azelphur> so, XFS might be a better choice?
[21:49] <awilkins> Not sure, I set this box up before ext4 was available
[21:49] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:49] <awilkins> Really old MythTV server - has a Sempron under the hood
[21:49] <Azelphur> I'll go ext4 since it's easy :)
[21:49] <Azelphur> awilkins: haha, so does mine
[21:49] <Azelphur> sempron 140 \m/
[21:50] <Azelphur> now to figure out how on earth to use parted
[21:50] <awilkins> I just use fdisk
[21:50] <diplo> Azelphur: My file server with lots of films on it is fine, albeit it's a samba box not a myth backend
[21:50] <Azelphur> awilkins: that works too :)
[21:50] <diplo> Same here, never actually tried parted on the cl
[21:50] <Azelphur> awilkins: what would I do with fdisk to reformat it?
[21:50] <diplo> i
[21:50] <awilkins> Never really got myself square with LVM
[21:50] <diplo> mk2fs.ext4 ?
[21:51] <awilkins> fdisk, it has a help menu
[21:51] <diplo> Something like that
[21:51] <Azelphur> ah
[21:51] <awilkins> I usually check that before each command
[21:51] <diplo> Don't format with fdisk
[21:51] <awilkins> No, fdisk is for partition tables
[21:51] <awilkins> fdisk then mkfs.ext4
[21:51] <diplo> yah
[21:52] <awilkins> Using the Japanese Train Driver method (physically point at screen checking parameters before hitting enter)
[21:52]  * diplo +1's awilkins
[21:53] <awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydC8ll5iNY
[21:53] <diplo> I always when playing with fdisk for a customer run in a spare vm, never feel overly confident :)
[21:54] <awilkins> I managed to dd over the partition table on a live machine once
[21:55] <diplo> ooer
[21:55] <awilkins> It was the root partition of the box I was running on
[21:55] <awilkins> Happily it was just my workstation
[21:55] <awilkins> But still bloody annoying
[21:55] <awilkins> Managed to back it up before it shut down for the last time ever....
[21:56] <awilkins> Was trying to wipe the partition table on a stubborn flash drive
[21:56] <diplo> My biggest, maybe only foobar at work was...
[21:56] <diplo> rf -rf / :D
[21:56] <diplo> rm*
[21:56] <awilkins> Ooopsie
[21:56] <awilkins> That's a classic
[21:56] <diplo> heh, twas only the backup machine
[21:56] <diplo> Wrote a script to backup sql db's and rsync some sites
[21:57] <diplo> And did a check for age of file and passed it like $file/
[21:57] <diplo> Don't know why I'd left a slash on the end.. but i did
[21:57] <Azelphur> there we go, one successfully mounted 3TB drive
[21:57] <diplo> And when there was nofile it pass the file
[21:57] <diplo> \o/
[21:57] <Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796815/
[21:59] <diplo> You know I'm going to go to work tomorrow and do something regrettable now!
[22:02] <Paladine> popey did you see this? https://www.freelancer.com/projects/Software-Architecture/Chromium-Firefox-branch.html
[22:02] <Paladine> if you know anyone who fits the bill and might be interested, can you pass them my details?
[22:02] <ali1234> Azelphur: you want lvm with that
[22:04] <Azelphur> ali1234: why?
[22:04] <ali1234> it's software raid basically
[22:04] <ali1234> if you have two disks, you want it
[22:04] <Azelphur> oh, right
[22:04] <Azelphur> ali1234: the problem with that is tha tone of the disks has the data on it
[22:04] <Azelphur> and I have nowhere to dump 2TB of data.
[22:05] <Azelphur> my current plan is format 1st to ext4 -> move data onto it, format 2nd to ext4, done
[22:07] <Paladine> gnite
[22:07] <Azelphur> ali1234: I'm correct in saying ^, right?
[22:07] <Azelphur> can't do LVM if I have nowhere temporary to store the data
[22:13] <ali1234> well you can create a lvm with one drive, copy the files on, then add the second drive
[22:13] <ali1234> and then expand the partition or whatever
[22:16] <Azelphur> ali1234: and the benefit of this would be RAID, so protection against drive failure?
[22:16] <Azelphur> ali1234: if you wanted to walk me through it, I'd be cool with doing it
[22:17] <ali1234> well you can do whatever you want with it
[22:17] <ali1234> you can make a 6TB partition if you want
[22:17] <Azelphur> this is for my fileserver, so it's literally just mass storage
[22:17] <ali1234> i can't remember how to do it
[22:17] <Azelphur> it'd be nice to have it all in one partition, that's for sure
[22:17] <ali1234> it's not hard to do
[22:17] <ali1234> i followed a guide
[22:19] <Azelphur> show me what guide you followed? :)
[22:19] <ali1234> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/
[22:19] <ali1234> probably that
[22:21] <Azelphur> ali1234: raid5 is the sane setup for something like this I think, but you need 3 drives, right?


[22:37] <weblife> Woohoo!!!  Using mongoosejs  instead on mongodb with nodejs app on juju: http://ec2-50-112-224-192.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/   I have a full length tutorial coming on how to do it too!  11 pages so far...
[22:39] <weblife> broken it down to a three part tutorial though
[22:49] <weblife> I have not programmed in python much.  I am trying to setup a patch for node-app to build nodejs from source but want to make the 'make' command use as many cores '-j' as possible when building it.  Anyone know what I can do to auto fill this?
[22:58] <weblife> Got it.  It will use as many available to it with just 'make -j',  don't need to fill it I guess.


[02:25] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[02:26] <joelcrump> good morning lotuspsychje although it's night time here
[02:26] <lotuspsychje> hey there joelcrump
[06:07] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:41] <Deano59> good morning! :D
[08:42] <lordievader> Morning
[13:25] <lotuspsychje> welcome unRheal
[13:26] <lotuspsychje> unRheal: #ubuntu is the support channel, we try to divide support with discussions in the proper channels, hence this discuss channel
[13:27] <lotuspsychje> unRheal: did you ask about compiling kernels for a specific reason of yours, or just curious?
[13:32] <unRheal> sorry... but I am having many troubles, setting up my dev env, I re-installed 18.04 LTS 3 or so times, and then I tried (and currently on) 20.04 LTS.
[13:34] <unRheal> My network doesn't show up in the settings app, and my keyboard used to light up, but stopped for some reason, and I keep looking for drivers.. my ethernet card apparently has some known issues..
[13:39] <unRheal> Then a few boots ago, something like hotplug-monitor or similar crashed, and added my "me too" to the list of people affected, but I rebooted after it crashed, and when I re-started, my phone (which was plugged into the USB, and mounted, but I ejected it before reboot) will no longer pop up when I plug it in. Even if I select other locations.. plus, when I did do that reboot, "Windows Network" showed up for the very
[13:39] <unRheal> first time in Files, but it always just says Unable to access location when I click it. (failed to retrieve share list from server: No such file or directory)
[13:41] <unRheal> I just turned 53 today, so I need to get the rust off my brain before I run out of time, as I have some projects I've been trying to set up a dev env for, and have to re-compile Tensorflow because the new version uses some instructions that came out about 8 months after I bought my $1200 CPU (some years back, of course)
[13:42] <unRheal> and sorry, I don't expect you to solve all my problems, I was just sort of laying it out for you.. you've already been more helpful than the vast majority. Cheers
[13:45] <lotuspsychje> unRheal: to solve ubuntu problems, try to ask 1 issue at time in #ubuntu with all your details to solve them systematicly
[13:46] <unRheal> lotuspsychje: sounds reasonable.  :)  How do you get my name in front of your messages, I'm pretty sure you're not typing it..
[13:47] <lotuspsychje> !tab | unRheal
[13:48] <lotuspsychje> unRheal: type a few lettres of my nick, then autocomplete with your TAB
[13:48] <unRheal> lotuspsychje, ahh!  Dankee! much appreciated.
[13:50] <unRheal> lotuspsychje, not quite right? how do you mean by the bang tab and then you pipe it?
[13:50] <lotuspsychje> you can see its working
[13:51] <unRheal> lotuspsychje, yes, but you have a : after my name, and I have a comma..?
[13:52] <lotuspsychje> unRheal: thats bound to your irc client, you can edit that in its settings
[13:52] <lotuspsychje> im using hexchat, changed it into :
[13:55] <unRheal> Yes, Hexchat seems most straight forward so far...  I tried quassel, but irc was all greyed out at first, and I was getting tired of continuously searching for little things like that, due to my brain rust and new software and methods ..
[13:58] <unRheal> lotuspsychje: i see :)
[14:00] <unRheal> does my nick change colour when I do that? (as yours does for me)
[14:02] <lotuspsychje> unRheal: highlighting is also something the client does, also configurable in settings to your wishes
[14:06] <unRheal> lotuspsychje: once again, almost like they planned it that way.  Thanks!   I think I will try popping back to ubuntu and see if anyone responds to my Ethernet not showing up in the settings (which it did find in all 3 18.04 installs oddly enough..) do you think that's a good way to start, right channel for the question and all that good stuff?
[14:07] <unRheal> "Which it did find..."  == "Which it did fine..."
[14:11] <unRheal> lotuspsychje: curious - how'd you come up with the nick... If you don't mind me asking, of course.
[14:14] <unRheal> lotuspsychje: and I'll stop pestering you, you've been very helpful and generous with your time. My time is so valuable these days.. getting old enough that some of the rust on my brainpan may not come off.. but I'm motivated, and that's highly unusual.
[14:14] <sonicwind> happy bday unRheal
[14:22] <unRheal> Thank you kindly. Time is going faster. 2 or so years ago, I couldn't care less, but now I have been inspired and have projects in mind. 53 years, and found someone on youtube who is the first person I could think of as a mentor, if he had any spare time at all.. (Sam Harris)
[21:22] <Bashing-om> UWN632 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue632 :D


[02:04] <BenC> is lp choking or is it me?
[02:05] <yankees26> its choking
[02:05] <yankees26> i have reason to  believe its a hot dog stuck in the throat
[02:15] <BenC> looks like whatever it was got dislodged
[02:15] <BenC> maybe feed it smaller bites, or pre-chew it's food in the future :)
[02:17] <ajmitch> no, it still seems to be rather slow here, taking a couple of minutes at least to load a page :)
[02:27] <bluefoxicy> is there anything I should particularly know about creating something so it can easily be shifted into a launchpad module?
[02:32] <mpt> bluefoxicy, what do you mean by "a Launchpad module"?
[02:36] <bluefoxicy> mpt:  I don't know, I don't seem to have the source for launchpad so I'm guessing ;)
[02:36] <bluefoxicy> mpt:  I am considering, possibly, doing a quick sketch of how something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReportsTagging would work
[02:43] <bluefoxicy> eh I have a paper to finish, I'll worry about this later.
[06:21] <jamesh> BjornT: thanks for retrieving that bug description.
[06:24] <BjornT> jamesh: no problem. +edit still worked, so it wasn't hard.
[06:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73419 in launchpad "Allow locking of bug descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73419
[06:26] <jamesh> BjornT: I guessed you'd done something like that.  Good thinking :)
[06:26] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73420 in launchpad "We attempt to render ridiculously large chunks of user input" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73420
[06:29] <jamesh> maybe we could refuse bug comments containing the text "ProblemType: Crash" :)
[06:29] <mpt> jamesh, why would I get "ImportError: cannot import name testutil" (from importd.tests)?
[06:29] <jamesh> mpt: update the sourcecode/ subtrees?
[06:29] <mpt> Is there a quick way of updating all of them? :-)
[06:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73421 in launchpad "Feature: Revert to old state" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73421
[06:30] <jamesh> depends on how you created them
[06:30] <jamesh> I use lightweight checkouts for them against the rocketfuel-built tree, which means a simple "bzr update" is all that's needed
[06:31] <mpt> In this case, as a lightweight checkout
[06:31] <mpt> bzr update from sourcecode/?
[06:31] <jamesh> from each sourcecode/foo directory
[06:31] <mpt> darn
[06:33] <jamesh> how do you normally update the subtrees?
[06:34] <mpt> When someone mails launchpad@ and says "You need to update your X subtree", I go into that directory and use bzr pull
[06:34] <mpt> I haven't used bzr update before
[06:36] <mpt> Ok, "bzr update" for every subtree says it's up to date, but I still get the error
[06:37] <jamesh> mpt: if you aren't using checkouts for the subtrees, then "bzr update" won't do anything (the trees will be up to date with themselves)
[06:37] <jamesh> mpt: so use "bzr pull" then
[06:37] <mpt> This whole working directory is a lightweight checkout
[06:37] <mpt> So why wouldn't the sourcecode/ subdirectory consist of checkouts?
[06:38] <mpt> er, this whole branch, I mean
[06:39] <jamesh> mpt: your launchpad tree may be a lightweight checkout -- whether the trees under sourcecode/ are lightweight checkouts would depend on how you created them
[06:39] <jamesh> if you copied them from rocketfuel-built, then they'd be standalone trees
[06:41] <mpt> ahhh
[06:46] <mpt> Who has DB access other than stub?
[06:52] <mpt> jamesh, do you?
[06:52] <jamesh> don't seem to
[06:52] <jamesh> (I did back when I was doing the bug imports, but not any more)
[06:53] <mpt> So what's the procedure for spammers when stub is asleep? :-/
[06:53] <jamesh> email
[06:53] <jamesh> is it urgent?
[06:54] <mpt> Yes, bug 1 is being vandalized
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[06:54] <jamesh> lifeless might be able to help
[06:55] <jamesh> mpt: I get a static page for that bug ;)
[06:57] <jamesh> mpt: the admins probably have access, but might not know what to do
[06:57] <mpt> crappity
[07:09] <mpt> but, yay for it being stopped for now
[07:11] <lifeless> whats up
[07:12] <lifeless> mpt: stub, all the admins, and I
[07:12] <mpt> lifeless, I was just belatedly concerned about the spamming of bug 1, but bug 1 is now static and the offender seems to have been deleted
[07:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[07:12] <mpt> so, never mind
[07:12] <mpt> Alas, I predicted this a few days ago, but that was too late :-P
[07:13] <lifeless> heh
[07:14] <mpt> bug 73122
[07:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73122 in malone "Need strategy for stopping pandemonium in individual bug reports" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73122
[07:15] <mpt> Ugh, why do I get a conflict when merging sourcecode/bzr/?
[07:15] <mpt> Text conflict in bzrlib/tests/test_hashcache.py
[07:17] <jamesh> why are you merging?
[07:17] <lifeless> do a pull --overwrite mpt
[07:17] <mpt> "bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged"
[07:17] <mpt> oh
[07:17] <mpt> darn
[07:17] <mpt> I already merged and committed zope/, I hope that doesn't matter
[07:17] <mpt> Oh, I suppose I could just pull --overwrite that one too
[07:18] <lifeless> mpt: yes, you should
[07:18] <jamesh> mpt: in general, you shouldn't have to commit in the subtrees unless you're making changes to them
[07:18] <lifeless> mpt: unless you are developing on one of these branches
[07:20] <mpt> Now I have 3 "can't delete bzrlib/<something> because it is not empty" conflicts
[07:20] <mpt> (After reverting and --overwriting)
[07:20] <lifeless> mpt: delete them by hand,
[07:20] <lifeless> mpt: 'bzr st' should show nothing when you are done
[07:20] <mpt> oh, it's just .pyc
[07:21] <lifeless> spiv: how goes it ?
[07:23] <mpt> Yay, now I have a different error
[07:23] <mpt> "No module named urlutils"
[07:24] <jamesh> mpt: have you updated your bzr?
[07:24] <mpt> yes
[07:24] <jamesh> bzrlib.urlutils is in the newer bzr
[07:24] <mpt> The saved location is on chinstrap, though
[07:25] <mpt> Is it more up to date on devpad?
[07:25] <jamesh> of course.
[07:25] <mpt> ok
[09:34] <SteveA> stub: ping
[10:02] <ddaa> Hello there
[10:03] <ddaa> SteveA: jamesh: spiv: lifeless: ping
[10:04] <lifeless> gnip
[10:04] <ddaa> Meeting?
[10:05] <lifeless> indeed
[10:06] <carlos> mornin
[10:06] <carlos> morning
[10:08] <SteveA> hi ddaa
[10:49] <lifeless> review meeting in 12 minutes
[11:05] <lifeless> review meeting time
[11:05] <SteveA> me
[11:05] <lifeless> sorry I'm a litle slow, massive headache
[11:06] <BjornT> hi
[11:06] <spiv> I thought "so" came after "me"? ;)
[11:06] <jamesh> hi
[11:06] <SteveA> spiv: yes, "fa" first
[11:07] <lifeless> == Agenda ==
[11:07] <lifeless>  * Roll call
[11:07] <lifeless>  * Queue status.
[11:07] <lifeless>  * Whitespace cleanup
[11:07] <lifeless> * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (was on LP meeting agenda)
[11:07] <SteveA> at the top
[11:07] <SteveA> the very top
[11:08] <lifeless> the queue is very big right now
[11:09] <lifeless> how are you guys going with the backlog ?
[11:10] <lifeless> SteveA suggests that you all look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/ [presumably in case you have forgotten where it is :)]
[11:10] <SteveA> I was actually thinking of the wiki page
[11:10] <SteveA> but still, I think it's useful to have a call to focus in a meeting
[11:11] <SteveA> I think we should consider a new meeting time, so francis and salgado can be here
[11:11] <lifeless> we can consider that
[11:11] <lifeless> I'll send mail tomorrow
[11:11] <SteveA> thanks
[11:12] <lifeless> for now though..
[11:12] <lifeless> spiv: you have 3 > 20 days in the queue. when are they going to be reviewed ?
[11:12] <lifeless> jamesh: you also have 3 > 20 days..
[11:13] <lifeless> SteveA: your pyrex branches will be reallocated as soon as either spiv or jamesh indicate a preference to do it.
[11:13] <spiv> Immediately, basically.  I have half of a (follow-up) review for ddaa's import-svn-safety written.
[11:13] <jamesh> I
[11:14] <jamesh> 'm working through my oldest two.  Will send out soon.  Will work on more tomorrow
[11:14] <spiv> And the other two look short, I expect to have them done tomorrow morning at the latest.
[11:14] <lifeless> cool.
[11:15] <jamesh> I'd like to knock some of my other reviews off before accepting the pyrex branch.
[11:15] <lifeless> I realise its a heavy load right after all hands... effect and cause.
[11:15] <lifeless> spiv: how do you feel about pyrex ?
[11:15] <spiv> I'm happy to take it.
[11:15] <lifeless> ok
[11:15] <lifeless>  * whitespace cleanup
[11:15] <lifeless> this is an item from some time back, jamesh was going to raise at the regular lp meeting.
[11:16] <lifeless> jamesh: ?
[11:16] <jamesh> spiv: If you haven't gotten to it by the time I've cleared out my queue, I can look at the pyrex branch.
[11:16] <jamesh> lifeless: I think this is old.  This was brought up a few weeks back (before allhands), and everyone agreed to the change.
[11:17] <spiv> jamesh: thanks, I'll punt it to you if it starts going stale.
[11:17] <lifeless> jamesh: ok.
[11:17] <lifeless>  * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (was on LP meeting agenda)
[11:17] <lifeless> jamesh: you added this. over to you
[11:17] <jamesh> SteveA asked me to add it
[11:18] <lifeless> SteveA: ?
[11:18] <jamesh> I think this was basically what we were discussing earlier
[11:19] <SteveA> yeah.
[11:19] <SteveA> we want people to make smaller branches to review
[11:19] <SteveA> divide their work into smaller chunks to land on mainline
[11:19] <SteveA> so a reviewer can see the correspondence between tests and interfaces and gui and code
[11:20] <SteveA> people will need help with this, so encourage calls to discuss how they'll break up the work
[11:20] <SteveA> encourage agreeing a written plan on this, if it will help
[11:20] <SteveA> I'm sure you'll have other ideas too
[11:23] <SteveA> done
[11:24] <lifeless> I agree with the goals
[11:24] <lifeless> not thinking well right now - headache as I mentioned.
[11:24] <lifeless> I suggest we all mull on this and discuss next week
[11:25] <lifeless> any other business - unless folk have comments on this now ?
[11:25] <lifeless> 5
[11:26] <lifeless> 4
[11:26] <lifeless> spiv: can you please assign the pyrex branches to yourself
[11:26] <spiv> ok
[11:27] <lifeless> 3
[11:27] <lifeless> thanks
[11:27] <lifeless> 2
[11:29] <spiv> The suspense is killing me.
[11:29] <lifeless> 0
[11:30] <lifeless> meeting over, thanks for coming
[02:38] <SteveA> matsubara: hi.  are you expecting kiko to be in soon?
[02:39] <matsubara> Hi SteveA, let me ask Taciana. I arrived yesterday and haven't seen him yet.
[04:34] <xerxas> Hi all
[04:35] <xerxas> I would lke to request an "ambassador role" for packages
[04:35] <xerxas> following discussions on  #ubuntu-classroom
[04:38] <carlos> xerxas: I think you should ask at #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu
[04:38] <Hobbsee> carlos: he just got sent here from #ubuntu-classroom with the open day
[04:39] <carlos> hmmm
[04:39] <carlos> to launchpad?
[04:39] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:39] <carlos> ok, then I'm not the right person to answer....
[04:39] <xerxas> Hobbsee,  thanks :)
[04:39] <carlos> cprov: ?
[04:40] <cprov> carlos: hey
[05:07] <kiko> hello warriors of bug #1
[05:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[05:08] <LarstiQ> heh
[05:08] <somerville32> Wrong channel :)
[05:08] <xerxas> is there a launchpad developper ?
[05:09] <kiko> there are many
[05:09] <kiko> it's not like highlander
 I would lke to request an "ambassador role" for packages
 following discussions on  #ubuntu-classroom
[05:09] <xerxas> sabdfl and seb128 agrees with that
[05:09] <kiko> tell me all about it
[05:10] <xerxas> what should I do so that request is not lost ?
[05:10] <xerxas> kiko,  an ambassador role is like a mainteners except the ambassador reports bugs upstream
[05:10] <xerxas> and develop good contacts with the upstream team
[05:10] <xerxas> kiko,  is there anything more you want ?
[05:11] <kiko> xerxas!!!
[05:11] <xerxas> (this role is within malone only, If I understand correclty )
[05:11] <xerxas> kiko,  !!!!
[05:11] <xerxas> :)
[05:11] <kiko> xerxas, so, that's a fabulous idea, and one that mdz and I have discussed many times
[05:11] <xerxas> and so ?
[05:11] <kiko> so
[05:12] <xerxas> is it going to happen ? or what should I do so that it's being done soon or late ?
[05:12] <kiko> here's a question for you: what does this differ from becoming a package bug contact?
[05:12] <xerxas> this is a questions for sabdfl  and seb128  probably :)
[05:12] <xerxas> maybe the bug contact could filter questions from ubunteros to the ambassador
[05:13] <xerxas> the ambassador have more an upstream role, the bug contact probably a downstream role
[05:13] <xerxas> but that's only my point of view
[05:14] <kiko> xerxas, shouldn't the "ambassador" get notifications of upstream bugs?
[05:14] <xerxas> maybe
[05:14] <kiko> xerxas, because if so, we could just have the ambassador be the bug contact for the upstream product
[05:14] <xerxas> probably
[05:14] <kiko> that that's all!
[05:14] <kiko> then the only thing necessary is to add a packaging link
[05:15] <kiko> and everything works as expected
[05:15] <kiko> hello mdz
[05:15] <kiko> speak of the devil
[05:16] <xerxas> sabdfl, are you here ?
[05:17] <xerxas> can you see a difference between the "package bug contact" and "package ambassador role" ?
[05:17] <xerxas> aside the name :)
[05:17] <kiko> xerxas, I think the ambassador role can use the launchpad bug contact functionality to function
[05:18] <kiko> the other part I think is important is to make clear what the ambassador should do
[05:18] <xerxas> kiko,  I'm not a launchpad master
[05:18] <kiko> i.e. to have a documented process
[05:18] <mdz> kiko: morning
[05:18] <kiko> xerxas, that's fine -- we're here to help!
[05:18] <xerxas> kiko, I were attending the ubuntu-classroom , seb128 where talking about an ambassador for package
[05:18] <xerxas> I suggested this appears in launchpad, and that's all
[05:19] <kiko> I see now
[05:19] <kiko> I think that's a great idea.
[05:19] <seb128> kiko: the idea is to have a "point of contact" for a package
[05:19] <seb128> somebody upstream could mail when he wants to speak about its software and how it's packaged
[05:20] <kiko> seb128, would he also do bug forwarding, or is that separate?
[05:21] <sabdfl> xerxas: i would see the ambassador as a more general point of contact between ubuntu and the upstream
[05:22] <xerxas> seb128, thanks for clarifyng
[05:22] <seb128> kiko: no, not bug forwarding
[05:22] <kiko> ah, okay.
[05:22] <sabdfl> for example, its often useful for us to know *which* version of a package is the best to aim for in a particular ubuntu release
[05:22] <kiko> that's indeed different.
[05:22] <seb128> rather pointing the person in contact with upstream
[05:22] <xerxas> sabdfl, that's pretty much my point of view, ambassador is upstream, bug contact is downstream (ubunteros)
[05:25] <kiko> I see.
[05:27] <xerxas> kiko,  is that ok ?
[05:28] <xerxas> did you got It ?
[05:28] <xerxas> am I suppose to make a feature request anywhere ?
[05:28] <kiko> xerxas, I still need to think a bit more about what launchpad could do to help you
[05:28] <xerxas> ok
[05:28] <kiko> is it just having an "Upstream ambassador" slot?
[05:28] <xerxas> yes, think so
[05:28] <kiko> what would this slot do?
[05:29] <sabdfl> kiko: yes, together with the means to work with that group as a community (i.e. mail them)
[05:29] <sabdfl> this is the "adopt and upstream" thing, i think
[05:29] <kiko> sabdfl, all the ambassadors of all packages, and the individual ambassador by package name?
[05:30] <sabdfl> yes, i imagine that would do it :-)
[05:31] <kiko> sabdfl, the adopt an upstream thing I specifically envisioned assisting bug reporters moving bugs upstream
[05:31] <kiko> so this is different
[05:31] <kiko> I think it's a good idea
[05:32] <kiko> but wonder if we couldn't conflate the two and get two hits for the price of one
[05:32] <xerxas> have to go guys
[05:32] <xerxas> bye !
[05:37] <gnomefreak> i just started a spec for LP on package ambassadors here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/package-ambassador the wiki isnt done yet but i will continue on it sometime today.
[05:37] <sabdfl> i think we already have upstream bug contacts
[05:37] <kiko> hey gnomefreak
[05:37] <gnomefreak> hi kiko
[05:37] <sabdfl> so the adopt-an-upstream idea was to be a general ambassador
[05:38] <kiko> we do have upstream bug contacts but it's not clear that they are the people to be notified when we want to forward bug reports to an upstream bugtracker
[05:38] <gnomefreak> they dont ever seem real active with bugs that i have seen
[05:39] <gnomefreak> mainly with bugs the qa team does most of it but we rarely ever contact upstream we just send bugs upstream
[06:00] <YoussefAssad> would it make sense to write a job description (but call it something more acceptable) for the sake of clarity for that role, ambassador?
[06:02] <YoussefAssad> My $DEITY, there's a HOWTO on encouraging women?
[06:04] <kiko> yeah, the spec should definitely have a job description.
[06:04] <YoussefAssad> Could probably draft something
[06:05] <YoussefAssad> Anyone else doing work which would overlap that?
[06:05] <kiko> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/package-ambassador
[06:10] <ddaa> matsubara: oh my... was this interesting! https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/600
[06:11] <ddaa> there is no bound to what people with too much free time can achive
[06:18] <YoussefAssad> kiko: yes, I saw that. Bit thin on detail though (which, admittedly, could be a desirable state)
[06:18] <kiko> YoussefAssad, luckily it's a wikipage! :)
[06:18] <YoussefAssad> free time? What is free time?
[06:19] <YoussefAssad> kiko: I can take a hint! :) Okay, let me see what I can whip up in a day or two
[06:19] <SteveA> ddaa: I'd suggest that drawing attention to worthless abuse on a public channel plays to the intention of the abuser.
[06:20] <danilos> ddaa: that looks like macedonian ;)
[06:20] <YoussefAssad> so there'd essentially be an ambassador per package? Where one person could map to multiple ambassadorial posts, of course
[06:20] <ddaa> SteveA: I just find this one so extreme it's funny.
[06:20] <kiko> I did too
[06:20] <kiko> I wonder what he meant though
[06:20] <kiko> which site?
[06:28] <YoussefAssad> I'm looking at this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/launchpadambassadors   and wondering if there's a spec spec, or if I can just run in there and append sections pertinent to an eventual SoW/JD for the ambassadorial role
[06:33] <jordi> danilos: hey
[06:34] <danilos> jordi: heey pretty boy, how's it going?
[06:34] <jordi> danilos: if you're going to be around for some more time, there's the Rosetta session in 1.5 hours.
[06:34] <jordi> there'll be a Q+A session after I dump my text; if you can be around for extra support, that'd be good :)
[06:35] <danilos> jordi: sure, though I am not sure I understand what you mean by "Rosetta session"
[06:35] <danilos> :)
[06:35] <jordi> Ubuntu Open Week
[06:35] <jordi> dude
[06:35] <kiko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[06:35] <kiko> danilos, wake up
[06:35] <danilos> jordi: ah, right
[06:35] <danilos> kiko: kiss me to wake me up :)
[06:36] <danilos> ah, yuck, now I am woken up :)
[06:36] <YoussefAssad> heh
[06:37] <jordi> it sucks that just 2 hours before your talk your wireless thingy blows up and you have to doo all the session in a not so comfy table
[06:37] <YoussefAssad> Listen, question people if you don't mind. Is there a format for specs on the wiki which is preferred^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H insisted upon?
[06:38] <kiko> there's a specification template
[06:38] <danilos> jordi: tell me about it: I had my phone line supposedly changed to ISDN today, but it turned out completely broken, and my ADSL is not working, so I am now connected via my old ISP, and if I don't want to re-set-up everything, this means cable as well
[06:39] <jordi> heh
[06:39] <YoussefAssad> yes, I see it nicely laid out here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/launchpadambassadors . I'm just wondering if I should append a morevdetailed role description there, or if structure nazis would persecute me
[06:39] <jordi> you're back to isdn?
[06:39] <jordi> wtf?
[06:39] <danilos> jordi: no, wifi internet
[06:40] <danilos> jordi: the speed is fine, but this ISP breaks a lot, and my ap is not set-up to share that connection, so I have to plug cable in
[06:40] <YoussefAssad> is it normal for Canonical to keep people waiting three days for information about commercial support, incidentally?
[06:40] <YoussefAssad> there's a chap on #ubuntu-marketing sitting on a 50 node ubuntu HA cluster who apparently wants to buy support
[06:41] <SteveA> ubuntu-marketing is not the best way to get in contact with commercial support
[06:41] <YoussefAssad> I know, he was in there to see if the marketing people would be interested in documenting his cluster
[06:42] <YoussefAssad> He apparently sent an inquiry using an online form. Anyhow, what do I care, I'm with Grameen, not Canonical!
[06:42] <YoussefAssad> dinnertime
[06:42] <SteveA> YoussefAssad: he wanted to buy support, or get documentation?
[06:42] <SteveA> I'm confused
[06:42] <AlinuxOS> hello all, is there new version of rosetta in some time ?
[06:42] <kiko> SteveA, documenting his cluster as a case study.
[06:43] <YoussefAssad> SteveA: jerom1 is the nick if you're curious
[06:43] <YoussefAssad> SteveA: Being in #ubuntu-marketing was for a different thing entirely, asking if his cluster was worth using for marketing purposes. Two distinct issues
[06:43] <YoussefAssad> Dinner, really.
[07:19] <kiko> hey SteveA
[07:29] <kiko> ddaa, ping?
[07:36] <carlos> kiko: ping
[07:36] <kiko> carlos, yes?
[07:37] <carlos> kiko: do you have some time for an UI problem I got while fixing translation reverting?
[07:37] <kiko> sure. what's up?
[07:38] <carlos> kiko: so, I'm adding too the 'locking' feature we talked for po imports to the translation form
[07:38] <carlos> and I'm not completely sure what's the best option to show a message to the user when someone else changed a string while they were translating
[07:39] <carlos> with our current UI
[07:39] <kiko> carlos, so the workflow is: user loads page, other user uploads, user posts page, boom, right?
[07:39] <carlos> with TranslationReview UI it's quite easy, because I have a place for current translation, and another for the submitted value
[07:39] <carlos> kiko: user uploads or other user submits
[07:39] <kiko> ah, ok
[07:39] <carlos> kiko: but yeah, that's the idea
[07:39] <kiko> right.
[07:40] <kiko> and you want to display these conflicting changes specially, right?
[07:40] <carlos> the problem is how to represent current translation + submitted value
[07:40] <carlos> yeah
[07:40] <YoussefAssad> erm, the package ambassadors; wouldn't their role overlap with ubuntu packge maintainers to an extent?
[07:40] <carlos> the current value would appear as Currently used without changes
[07:40] <carlos> but there is no way to detect which one is selected in this context
[07:41] <carlos> from the UI perspective
[07:41] <kiko> how about: /!\ Another user submitted a modification to this string while you were editing it. Please review the change below and modify as necessary.
[07:41] <carlos> so we lose what they submitted
[07:41] <kiko> do we lose it?
[07:41] <carlos> hmm
[07:42] <carlos> 'review change below'
[07:42] <kiko> right
[07:42] <carlos> I thought you mean to revert the textarea content to the active translation
[07:42] <kiko> well.. you could do that too. I'm not sure what the option is; just suggesting warning the user is a good idea
[07:44] <carlos> well, I already know that is a good idea to show a warning ;-)
[07:45] <carlos> another option would be
[07:45] <carlos> to leave it as I have it right now
[07:45] <carlos> which sucks a bit
[07:45] <carlos> and wait for TranslationReview to get a less sucky UI
[07:46] <carlos> so I don't expend time in a UI that will be die with TranslationReview (but that will be good for the users)
[07:46] <carlos> so I could say: 'Please, review the suggestions and submit the form again if you prefer to use your changes'
[07:47] <carlos> kiko: what do you think?
[07:48] <kiko> hold on
[07:48] <carlos> ok
[08:07] <carlos> kiko: ?
[08:07] <carlos> I need to leave
[08:10] <carlos> kiko: please, ping me if you have more input on the issue.
[08:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73509 in rosetta ".po file export doesn't update cached files" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73509
[08:29] <kiko> carlos, my feeling is that TranslationReview is going to land tomorrow, and therefore, there's no need to do work before that. If it's not landing tomorrow, well, we have a lot of chatting to do.
[08:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73519 in rosetta "Change translations to approved post membership acceptance to translation team" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73519
[09:18] <tonyyarusso> jordi: here
[09:18] <jordi> ok
[09:18] <jordi> so, tonyyarusso wants to learn more about our plans to support dialects
[09:18] <tonyyarusso> Indeed I do :)
[09:18] <jordi> tonyyarusso: just to have some background, I'm one of the main Catalan translators,
[09:19] <jordi> but, oh no! am Valencian
[09:19] <tonyyarusso> Otherwise I think the Elders will be at my throat...
[09:19] <jordi> so being able to produce ca@valencia translations easily from the existing ca translations would be rad
[09:19] <jordi> what's your usecase?
[09:21] <tonyyarusso> I'm not actually a speaker (yet), but am trying to get a translation effort started for Anishinaabe (Known in English as Ojibwe (various spellings).  Also related to Odawa, Mississauga, and Cree, and less closely, Algonquin.
[09:22] <jordi> so you want to translate to Ojibwe, Odawa, etc. reusing as much as possible?
[09:22] <tonyyarusso> This is an indigenous language in Canada and the United States, I believe the 4th most spoken or so.
[09:22] <tonyyarusso> Actually, it's worse than that.
[09:23] <tonyyarusso> By some arguments Odawa is a dialect of Ojibwe, others say it's a separate language.  Regardless, there are many dialects _within_ Ojibwe, on top of it's relations to other languages.
[09:23] <tonyyarusso> The amount of difference between things varies.
[09:23] <jordi> okay, complicated scenario it is :)
[09:24] <jordi> so what would you expect from rosetta?
[09:24] <tonyyarusso> The separate language/dialect line is fuzzy, but no matter how you slice it there is a huge number of subdivisions to be considered.
[09:24] <tonyyarusso> I'm trying to limit my scope: I won't worry about Cree or Algonquin, but probably include Odawa.
[09:25] <tonyyarusso> Given that, I need probably 5 or so dialects - lemme check my book here
[09:25] <jordi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/similar-languages
[09:25] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/57925
[09:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57925 in rosetta "Request: Cascading Translations" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[09:26] <jordi> tonyyarusso: have a look at those
[09:26] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, we have Northern, South-Eastern, Central, Plains, and Chippewa recognized as the significant dialectical areas.
[09:26] <tonyyarusso> ok
[09:26] <tonyyarusso> Sometimes it's just a matter of one different letter in spelling, for others (esp newer words) the word may be completely different ("computer" for example)
[09:28] <jordi> right
[09:28] <tonyyarusso> jordi: btw, the similar languages linked wiki page isn't available to me
[09:28] <jordi> so a workflow would be you translate to one of the languages, and then derive
[09:28] <jordi> tonyyarusso: oh, right
[09:29] <tonyyarusso> It would be nicer if they could be developed in a parallel manner.
[09:29] <tonyyarusso> For instance, you tell LP all of the dialects for your language, and then when translating strings have (in this case) 5 rows to input.
[09:30] <jordi> maybe you can describe what your workflow would be like in the bug reporty
[09:30] <jordi> that'll help us when implementing
[09:30] <tonyyarusso> If three of the rows are the same, just copy and paste them there, rather than having to go to a separate language page
[09:30] <tonyyarusso> I'll do that.
[09:30] <jordi> I see
[09:30] <jordi> that should be doable
[09:31] <jordi> I really hate that the specs are public, and all of them have a "Read More" link which isn't public.
[09:31] <jordi> I might bring that up formally for our next meeting
[09:33] <tonyyarusso> People are working on standardizing the language, but dialects are a very touchy subject culturally, so I certainly don't want to offend anyone by not having theirs, but there's no good way of avoiding it as it stands now.
[09:33] <jordi> yeah, it's a hot issue
[09:34] <jordi> tell me... :/
[09:36] <tonyyarusso> So you said it's a low priority - what kind of time frame are we talking about?
[09:37] <danilos> jordi: "bring it up" means putting it in MeetingAgenda ;)
[09:37] <jordi> tonyyarusso: it's very difficult to estimate
[09:37] <jordi> months, I'd say
[09:38] <jordi> danilos: because, what he wants (three languages at once) wouldn't fit in 2h-slot right? :)
[09:38] <danilos> jordi: guess not; it's a workflow that's not anything we have actually considered so far
[09:39] <jordi> yeah
[09:39] <jordi> and just implementing three boxes would be a bit lame. There should be some specific features like checkboxes to copy across all variants
[09:39] <jordi> ie, to avoid massive cut+paste
[09:41] <danilos> jordi: well, now that I think of it, I'd prefer if it was one "general" input box, and then you add only differences to other dialects (i.e. "Show input box for this dialect since it differs")
[09:41] <danilos> but, a couple of spec-voip-sessions would probably be due
[09:42] <jordi> yeah
[09:43] <tonyyarusso> danilos: I like that idea.  Heck, if you could just sed stuff that would work for some things.
[09:59] <dabear_> hi
[10:00] <dabear_> I am experiencing some timeouts on launchpad...
[10:00] <dabear_> has happened about three times the last hour
[10:04] <matsubara> dabear_: which page? do you have the OOPS id?
[10:04] <dabear_> sorry, not anymore :p happened while translating gaim and deluge to norwegian..
[10:08] <matsubara> dabear_: it's likely to be bug 30602, but without the oops id I can't say for sure.
[10:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
[11:24] <lotusleaf> hello, anyone awake?
[11:26] <lotusleaf> I made a mistake with my first time using launchpad and made https://launchpad.net/products/kdar and would like it removed because kdar already exists in another place, I was going to file a bug and didn't know where to look but it's here https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdar/+bug/62699
[11:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:30] <flacoste> lotusleaf: file a support request for that at https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addticket
[11:30] <flacoste> one of the launchpad admin will take care of this
[11:30] <lotusleaf> flacoste: thank you very much =)
[11:46] <lifeless> spiv: there are 3 pyrex branches
[11:48] <lifeless> lotusleaf: that does not look like a mistake to me ..
[11:48] <lifeless> lotusleaf: why do you want it removed ?
[11:48] <lotusleaf> lifeless: no? oh, I thought it was because kdar is mentioned here https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdar/+bug/62699
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:48] <lotusleaf> lifeless: because I thought kdar already exist @ url I just referenced above ^^
[11:49] <lifeless> lotusleaf: products/kdar is the 'upstream', and 'distros/ubuntu/+source' is the 'in-distribution' records
[11:49] <lifeless> its appropriate to have both, so that we can report on things like 'a new upstream release has happened but is not in the distro'
[11:49] <lotusleaf> lifeless: oh, really?
[11:49] <lotusleaf> lifeless: so I didn't make a mistake, then, after all? :)
[11:49] <lifeless> not at all. How can we make it more clear that we want this ?
[11:50] <lifeless> you should go to https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/+launchpad
[11:50] <lotusleaf> lifeless: thank you for this kind advice
[11:50] <lotusleaf> lifeless: ok I am there, what next
[11:50] <lifeless> this is part of KDE right ?
[11:51] <lotusleaf> lifeless: how may I withdraw my support request to have that removed ?
[11:51] <lotusleaf> lifeless: yes
[11:51] <lifeless> let me see now, give me a second
[11:51] <lotusleaf> sure, thank you =)
[11:51] <lifeless> kdar is different to karchiver right ?
[11:52] <flacoste> lotusleaf: to remove your request, simply go to it, add a message explaining that isn't needed anymore and click 'I Solved My Problem'
[11:52] <lotusleaf> yes, karchiver is different
[11:52] <flacoste> s/add/enter/
[11:52] <lotusleaf> flacoste: thank you
[11:52] <flacoste> my pleasure :-)
[11:52] <lifeless> I'm just seeing about linking this to the kde project
[11:53] <lifeless> but the field seems to have disappeared on me
[11:53] <lotusleaf> lifeless: http://directory.fsf.org/kArchiver.html
[11:53] <lifeless> lotusleaf: go to https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/+edit
[11:54] <lifeless> put kde in the project field
[11:54] <lotusleaf> lifeless: k
[11:54] <lifeless> that should make it inherit the KDE bugtracker settings
[11:54] <lotusleaf> ok
[11:54] <lotusleaf> that much is done
[11:55] <lifeless> yup - see the right hand side bar
[11:55] <lifeless> 'Bug Tracker'
[11:55] <lotusleaf> yes
[11:55] <lifeless> now, when someone forwards the bug upstream, malone knows how to fetch updates for it
[11:55] <lotusleaf> ah, I see, thank you =)
[11:55] <lifeless> if you click on 'trunk'
[11:55] <lotusleaf> thanks for walking me though it
[11:56] <lotusleaf> ok, clicked on trunk
[11:56] <lifeless> sorry, my link is way slow
[11:56] <lotusleaf> np
[11:56] <lifeless> and then edit source
[11:57] <lotusleaf> ok
[11:57] <lifeless> you can put in the SVN details.
[11:58] <lifeless> and if you go to 'edit series details'
[11:58] <lifeless> you can tell launchpad how to find new releases using the 'Release URL pattern' field
[11:58] <lotusleaf> which would be http://svn.sourceforge.net/kdar
[11:58] <lotusleaf> right?
[11:58] <lifeless> no
[11:59] <lifeless> you need to name the branch
[11:59] <lifeless> probably .../trunk
[11:59] <lotusleaf> ah, I haven't used svn before, only cvs, and only briefly =)
[11:59] <lotusleaf> so I'd add http://kdar.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kdar/trunk/
[11:59] <lotusleaf> ?
[12:00] <lifeless> no, it looks like sourceforge do something d ifferent
[12:00] <lotusleaf> ok, may I omit this information then?
[12:00] <lifeless> thats the WEB ui for sourceforge svn.
[12:00] <lifeless> sure, you can omit it
[12:00] <lotusleaf> yeah
[12:00] <lotusleaf> ok thx but thx for covering this part
[12:01] <lotusleaf> is there anything else I should do for it at this point?
[12:01] <lifeless> everything is optional
[12:01] <lifeless> I was just pointing you at things that help launchpad do more for you
[12:02] <lifeless> :)
[12:02] <lotusleaf> and I appreciate it very much, thank you =) So each package should be listed at launchpad twice, then?
[12:02] <lotusleaf> one in products/ and the other in distros/ubuntu ?
[12:04] <lifeless> lotusleaf: oh yes, I forgot one important link to make.
[12:04] <lotusleaf> lifeless: go for it =)
[12:04] <lifeless> from https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/trunk
[12:04] <lifeless> click on 'link to ubuntu package'
[12:04] <lotusleaf> ok
[12:05] <lifeless> the svn URL for sourceforge kdar looks like : https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kdar/trunk
[12:06] <lifeless> put 'kdar' in the source package field ;)
[12:06] <lotusleaf> oh, so just kdar?
[12:06] <lifeless> yup, its the first url segment after '+source/' on the distro side
[12:06] <lotusleaf> simple enough =D
[12:07] <lifeless> I've put the svn url in for you
[12:07] <lotusleaf> ok done
[12:07] <lifeless> I tested it by doing 'svn ls https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kdar/trunk'
[12:07] <lotusleaf> thx =) =)
[12:07] <lifeless> np
[12:08] <lotusleaf> lifeless: I appreciate you walking me though this, it was very kind of you =)
[12:08] <lotusleaf> lifeless: and, it turns out my blunder was not a mistake at all =)
[12:08] <lifeless> happy to help. Pass it forward :)
[12:08] <lotusleaf> lifeless: indeed =)
[12:09] <lifeless> and to answer the question, yes, each package should be listed twice - once in the distro, and once in products
[12:09] <lotusleaf> lifeless: thanks =)
[12:09] <lotusleaf> lifeless: I take it this is something that hasn't been done as frequently as desired?
[12:09] <lifeless> they need that link - the last step - done, beforce launchpad knows they are related.
[12:10] <lifeless> lotusleaf: well, its something that takes time, theres 16000 packages :). So if each person interested in a few packages takes the time to do it... its easy
[12:10] <lotusleaf> lifeless: interesting, I should have to look into this. :)
[12:11] <lifeless> I have to go now - see you later
[12:11] <lotusleaf> lifeless: have a good one and again thank you =)
[12:11] <lifeless> no probs. tchau.


[01:41] <guiverc> just found this : "A weekly podcast talking about the latest developments and updates from the Ubuntu Security team." https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/  or for rss feed  https://ubuntusecuritypodcast.org/episode/index.xml uwn??  technical & factual  (3 episodes so far; mostly a read of ubuntu security announce ml)
[01:49] <krytarik> The WHOIS info on the domain seems wonky, so I'd at least try and get confirmation from the security team first that it's actually them.
[01:50] <guiverc> okay - didn't look or even think to look/verify... krytarik
[01:56] <krytarik> That is, I'd be inclined to include it if you can get said confirmation.
[01:57] <guiverc> writing email right now (via lp)
[13:36] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: Dell Unveil its Cheapest XPS 13 Yet @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=134868 (by Joey Sneddon)
[22:25] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I really have not seen any new news today worth adding
[22:26] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: I ran across but one of interest . placed in " other articles " . Still can not load softpedia ..
[22:27] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, Have you tired a different browser?
[22:29] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Yup .. in this install of 18.04 I have chromium - preferred - and tried in 18.10 with fire fox .. both will not connect . but I can ping .. strange !
[22:30] <Wild_Man> Sounds like security settings maybe
[22:32] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: In that event looks like the browser would tell me so .
[22:33] <Wild_Man> It should, unless it is ghostery or another ad blocker
[22:35] <Bashing-om> woNope .. none of that in use .. guess I ask my wife on Win10 to see what she gets .. see if it is ISP related :)
[22:36] <Wild_Man> Could be, we can take this conversation to the other channel to keep this one mostly on topic


[08:45] <geser> Laney: bug #1004845 or a different one?
[10:15] <Laney> geser: yes, I found that
[10:23] <tumbleweed> great python-crypto is about to migrate to debian testing. /me files an RC bug
[10:24] <tumbleweed> oh, it has
[10:44] <geser> looks like the fix for bug #997464 made the IV madatory (unlike optional as mentioned in the documentation)
[10:54] <tumbleweed> geser: looks like the commit intended to make it mandatory for CFB https://github.com/dlitz/pycrypto/commit/411f60f58cea79f7e93476ba0c069b80a2a4c1a0
[10:54] <tumbleweed> which makes sense. CFB uses an IV
[10:55] <geser> and using an IV matches the example in the python file but not the documentation
[10:56] <geser> https://github.com/dlitz/pycrypto/blob/761eb61d2eee8e18e63812ac207d671b2a026eca/lib/Crypto/Cipher/AES.py
[10:57] <geser> https://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/api/current/Crypto.Cipher.AES-module.html#new
[11:13] <geser> l3on: are you planing to merge grass?
[11:16] <geser> a crash in dh_python2? can someone familiar with dh_python2 take a look at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/106081123/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.magics%2B%2B_2.14.11-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:20] <tumbleweed> geser: nice
[11:21] <jtaylor> noo magics++ that thing takes hours to build :(
[11:22] <geser> 30min on the buildds till that crash
[11:23] <jtaylor> ok 30 min, its still so long I don't really want to look at it :)
[11:23] <geser> start your pbuilder and go eat (or do something else) :)
[11:24]  * tumbleweed takes a guess as to the casue, while waiting for the build
[17:20] <tumbleweed> geser: the magics++ issue is that it calls dh_python2 twice
[17:20] <tumbleweed> and the second time it encounters the broken symlink that it left behind after the first run
[17:20] <tumbleweed> yay for maintainers who can't drive dh
[17:20] <jtaylor> dh_python2 shouldn't crash if run twice
[17:21] <jtaylor> or leave behind broken symlinks
[17:21] <tumbleweed> I don't think anything requires dh_ tools to be idempotent
[17:21] <tumbleweed> it's fairly common to do mv in builds
[17:21] <tumbleweed> it leaves behind a broken symlink becasue it renames .so.0.0.0 to .so
[17:22] <tumbleweed> (autotools doesn't know that python extensions aren't usefully versioned)
[17:22] <tumbleweed> but yes, it probably should cleanup the .so.X too
[17:22] <jtaylor> it doesn't happen in debian due to python2.6?
[17:23] <tumbleweed> haven't actually figured out why it doesn't happen on debian yet. /me plays some more
[17:45] <dupondje> The Developer Membership Board will consider a maximum of two applicants per meeting — if the agenda already lists two applicants for the next meeting, please attend the next free date (meetings are held every two weeks).
[17:46] <dupondje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[17:46] <dupondje> looks like there are 2 applications already ...
[17:46] <dupondje> but is it 2 or 3 now ? :)
[17:56] <tumbleweed> dupondje: correct. jbicha and negronjl got there first
[18:01] <dupondje> and no date for next meeting it seems
[18:01] <dupondje> gotto wait a bit then :)
[18:03] <tumbleweed> dupondje: add 2 weeks
[18:54] <dupondje> hmz crap, thats the 18'the, then i'm abroad :s
[19:04] <tumbleweed> dupondje: + 2 weeks again?
[19:25] <Rcart> #join ubuntu-classroom-es
[19:25] <Rcart> sorry  :X
[22:31] <bobweaver> hello there are there any plans for Ubuntu Developer Week coming up later on this year ? I looked at the wiki and I can not seem to find anything thanks as always for your time :)
[23:53] <geser> bobweaver: there is usually one around each release. dholbach might know when the next UDW is