[00:04] <_diablo> ohhh
[00:16] <Takyoji> This seems interesting, I would assume it's very capable of receiving data: http://w3bguru.com/wiffy-extreme/
[00:16] <Takyoji> However I wonder in regards of transmission..
[00:45] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Yes, LPIC is step-by-step.  However, you can take the exams for each level in any order (eg. 102 before 101)
[01:51] <Takyoji> So, someone's implying that using a 64-bit OS is only sane if you have 4GB or more of RAM. Therefore, they just want to use a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit processor.
[01:51] <Takyoji> Is there any factuality to that claim?
[01:55] <Takyoji> or also, as to why they imply "64-bit - Not recommended for daily desktop usage" on the Ubuntu download page.
[01:59] <Takyoji> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/585940
[02:01] <kermit> Takyoji: just minutes ago someone was complaining about a 64 bit version of an app crashing
[02:01] <kermit> in fact i dont think its the app, i think it was sun's java
[02:01] <kermit> its hard to blame the app when it's java and works in the 32 bit version
[02:02] <Takyoji> oh joy, I just found this: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html
[02:02] <Takyoji> Thank you Adobe..
[02:23] <_diablo> 64 bit flash sucks atm
[02:23] <_diablo> we'll see if they ever fix it..
[02:24] <kermit> you need to have everyhting be a 64 bit binary for the system to use mor ethan 4GB of ram?
[02:26] <Takyoji> I don't think there's even such a thing as a 64-bit Java app aside from a 64-bit JRE
[02:30] <kermit> yeah, so not even sun's code is stabl eon 64bit
[02:31] <_diablo> kermit: you can run 32 bit apps in 64 bit wrappers. I think they just run on 3 GB of ram...
[02:36] <Takyoji> You can actually allocate more than 4GB of RAM on a 32-bit system
[02:36] <Takyoji> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/ubuntu-linux-4gb-ram-limitation-solution/
[02:36] <Takyoji> The 32-bit 4GB RAM hard limitation is supposedly a Windows-specific issue.
[02:41] <kermit> my mem total says 3566416, when i have 4GB.. but its close enough to bother figuring out why
[02:42] <Takyoji> It's a GiB-GB issue.
[02:44] <_diablo> oh, that's right PAM fixes it if you patch your kernel that way
[02:44] <_diablo> kermit: you need to use a special kernel to use more than 3.5 GB on a 32 bit kernel
[02:45] <_diablo> s/PAM/PAE/
[02:45] <_diablo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension
[02:45] <kermit> Takyoji: no i think it's because direct memory devices start taking memory at 3.5GB mark
[02:45] <kermit> _diablo: ah, thanks
[02:45] <Takyoji> ahh
[02:45] <kermit> linux COULD, maybe, get a couple hundred more MB up there, but i think it just doesnt try
[02:46] <kermit> (could, without pae or 64 bit)
[02:46] <kermit> why, now, i wonder, is pae not on the default ubuntu kernel
[02:46] <_diablo> it's not as well tested across the board and is not necessary for the vast majority of users
[02:47] <kermit> ah
[02:50] <tonyyarusso> lol @ "14:25:01 < Obsidian1723> Honestly, all you need for Linux is the Linux+; I've never seen anyon e ask for a RHCE, UCP, LPICx, etc" <- Linux+ is the "dummy cert", and the rest are the ones you need for real jobs...
[02:50] <kermit> i've been using and working in linux for 14 years straight and i havent heard of any of those
[02:51] <kermit> but i never worked in a large corporation
[02:52] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: to start working in IT, what should I do to start? I just graduated with an econ degree, but much prefer working with linux and computers
[02:52] <_diablo> should I just get A+ certified, or linux+ certified?
[02:53] <_diablo> do you have any suggestions for places to start reading about them and what kinds of jobs match up with which degrees
[02:53] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: btw, if you take Linux+ before the end of this calendar year it is valid for life.  After that they're changing the policy to require renewals.
[02:54] <Takyoji> ahh
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: helpdesk requires A+, but admin stuff doesn't.
[02:54]  * Takyoji wonders how many here have made a cantenna at all
[02:54] <_diablo> Takyoji: I have!
[02:54] <Takyoji> Yay
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: and Linux+ and LPIC-1 have nothing to do with each other, other than covering a lot of the same content.
[02:55] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: how much work will linux+ be for someone that has basic networking skills (have a dedicated samba, apache, ssh, ftp, mpd server) and runs arch mostly, but reinstalls OSes weekly? I've built a computer...
[02:56] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: (thanks for the help btw)
[02:56] <Takyoji> tonyyarusso: http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed/linux.aspx
[02:56] <Takyoji> "A new benefit for CompTIA Linux+ candidates is that they may choose, at the time they take the exams, to have their exam record forwarded to the Linux Professional Institute. Certification in CompTIA Linux+, Powered by LPI, enables candidates to become certified in LPIC-1 as well, enabling further participation in the LPI program if the candidate chooses"
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: you'd probably be better off gaining experience with particular things, eg. Apache, before getting a certification.  Be able to say you know how to do some things, then add the paper to that.
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: all of the + certs are pretty basic really.
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: oooh, interesting.
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> I wonder if the reverse is true.
[02:57] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: okay. so a class for a cert is pretty useless? Just learn it from a book?
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: probably.  I've had some classes that I had to take for my degree that happened to also cover stuff for a cert, so I took the exam at the end, but I wouldn't pay for a class just to work towards a cert.  Except maybe for Cisco stuff if you're into that, since then they'll provide the gear.
[02:59] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: interesting. out of curiosity, what do you plan on doing with your degree?
[03:01] <Takyoji> _diablo: Because I was wondering. Would it be most practical to just shove a USB wireless adapter into a tin can, or use a pigtail and connect that to the adapter?
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: Hopefully system / network administration for small companies, schools, or government offices I think.
[03:02] <Takyoji> I was thinking pigtail would be most beneficial, yet I was just reading that supposedly the longer the antenna/cable, the more signal loss.
[03:02] <kermit> i can't decide if i should target admin work or dev work
[03:02] <kermit> or a company small enough that i'd just do both
[03:02] <_diablo> Takyoji: true, I didn't find a massive loss. I did it USB adaptor in the can
[03:02] <Takyoji> ahh, alright, I guess I'll take that approach then
[03:03] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: kermit: where do you find places that are looking for network admins?
[03:03] <_diablo> also, it seems like you kind of are in charge from the beginning. there's not really a training period or anything, right?
[03:03] <Takyoji> and as I was blabbing about earlier: would this design be sane for long distance transmission as well? http://w3bguru.com/wiffy-extreme/
[03:04] <_diablo> hmmm, idk. i wouldn't see why not
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: dunno yet ;)  (Currently I'm doing technical writing, user support, and some development, which I found on Craigslist)
[03:05] <tonyyarusso> well, actually I take that back.
[03:05] <_diablo> ah, fair enough. it's tough to get into this since my resume doesn't really have anything. I'm nearly entirely self-taught :-/
[03:06] <tonyyarusso> I did work as a network admin for about 6 months, at Saint Paul College.  Got that by being in the right place at the right time - they asked me if I wanted it.
[03:06] <_diablo> whoa. yeah, i don't even know where to look for something like that
[03:07] <Takyoji> My reason as to thinking why it wouldn't work is that, yes, transmissions that reach it are concentrated to that point, but if you're transmitting back, I'd think the dish would broaden the angle of transmission.
[03:07] <Takyoji> I'm not a radio expert, not even close. But just thinking of it conceptually makes me wonder.
[03:08] <_diablo> Takyoji: ah, true. Mine was just a cantenna, I didn't use any kind of parabolic reflection
[03:09] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: specifically, after my first semester as a student there they asked if I'd be interested in a student-worker position helping out with tech stuff in the department.  Two months later my supervisor accepted a promotion, so they offered me his job until it was posted to be re-filled permanently.  I had the opportunity to apply to keep it, but they were going to upgrade it to full-time (from half-time), and I didn't want to ...
[03:09] <Takyoji> otherwise I'll just fall back to the cantenna idea.
[03:09] <tonyyarusso> ... deal with that while still in school, so opted to revert to the student-worker position for a couple more months while the new guy got acquainted.
[03:10] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: oh, okay. Interesting. Do you know of any internship opportunities (either paid or unpaid)? I just want to get something on my resume while working a part time or full time job I hate just to cover bills
[03:11] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: not offhand, but feel free to give me a copy of your resume so I know what your skillset is.  We've been bringing in contractors for odd jobs at work from time to time, so who knows.
[03:12] <tonyyarusso> Thinking out loud:  The LoCo web site should have a resume-posting area.
[03:12] <Takyoji> I just had a great idea guys!
[03:12] <Takyoji> The LoCo web site should have a resume-posting area!
[03:12] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: agreed.
[03:12] <_diablo> lol
[03:13] <kermit> a resume isnt like code, its never 'done'
[03:13] <kermit> i dont know when mine's done.. but i'm pretty sure it's not ye
[03:13] <kermit> t
[03:13] <kermit> :/
[03:13] <kermit> are there any IT job fairs?
[03:13] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: what exactly would my resume entail? I mean, I have a lot of customer service work experience and I was a server and debate coach for a while, but my computer stuff is basically just what I've done around my apartment and building computers
[03:14] <Takyoji> I haven't even written one yet
[03:15] <Takyoji> perhaps our next meeting could be a lectural meeting on writing a resume. :P
[03:15] <_diablo> that's a good idea :)
[03:15] <_diablo> anyway, gtg, heading back to mpls from chicago
[03:15] <_diablo> ttyl. thanks for all the help
[03:15] <tonyyarusso> _diablo: Describe the technologies you think you can speak competently about.  ie, what could I write down that I would want to be asked about in an interview to show them how much I know about it?
[03:15] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: ah, okay
[03:16] <kermit> my resume would be perfect if i was 15 years yuonger
[03:16] <kermit> but theres that begging question, what the hell have i been doing with my time
[03:25] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: If you want to look at them, http://files.tonyyarusso.com/resume.20070223.comcast.sanitized.pdf http://files.tonyyarusso.com/resume.20090116.para-diddle.sanitized.pdf http://files.tonyyarusso.com/resume.20091217.nagios.sanitized.pdf
[03:25] <tonyyarusso> and try to remind me to point those out to _diablo when he gets back.
[03:28] <kermit> oh i like that format, it doesnt have a comprehensive time log
[03:28] <kermit> unless you're just young
[03:28] <kermit> oh wait, you're just young :/
[03:29] <tonyyarusso> I am, yeah.  Although I don't see much need to change the format drastically for a while - I just drop whatever's least relevant to what I'm applying for.
[03:30] <kermit> if i dont come up with something for the time, people are going to think i was in prison or something
[03:50] <tonyyarusso> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/783087595
[03:52] <kermit> tonyyarusso: yeah a lot of times i try to report or address issues and the devs say ubuntu has modified their code so talk to ubuntu.
[04:01] <tonyyarusso> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/2010-readers-choice-awards-survey


[04:27] <mup> Bug #1588125 changed: [2.0b5] Nodes commission, but don't see network interfaces with Xenial <cpe-sa> <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1588125>
[04:27] <mup> Bug #1589789 changed: is it impossible to add 'A' type record for a host which is not managed by MAAS? <MAAS:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1589789>


[00:05] <tanath> say i want to become a good open source developer. what would be the best way to get started?
[00:14] <RAOF> tanath: Find an itch, scratch it.
[00:14] <tanath> RAOF: well, that addresses motive, but beyond that...
[00:15] <tanath> RAOF: and i did say _good_ developer... ;)
[00:15] <RAOF> So, if the itch is "this program doesn't quite do what I want", the scratch would be writing a patch that conforms to the style and other guidelines of the existing code, and submitting it either to the mailinglist or bug tracker or both.
[00:15] <tanath> RAOF: what about learning good style, and common OS practices, etc...
[00:16] <tanath> where do you find guidelines, etc.?
[00:16] <RAOF> Well, style varies from project to project.
[00:16] <tanath> ok, but there ought to be suggested standards somewhere, whether they're generally followed or not...
[00:16] <RAOF> Read a bit of the project's code, check out the website, check out the HACKING/HACKERS file if they have one.
[00:17] <tanath> and if you're looking to start your own?
[00:17] <RAOF> tanath: GNU have suggested coding standards; but the most important standard is 'looks like the rest of the code' :)
[00:17] <tanath> hehe
[00:17] <tanath> that would seem to be common sense... :P
[00:18] <tanath> a matter of maintainability
[00:18] <RAOF> So, writing your own thing has 3 big things: some form of public version contol, a mailing list, and BIG SHINY LICENSE HEADERS ON ALL FILES.
[00:19] <RAOF> The last one there is mainly to make it not eye-gougeingly painful for distributions to package your code.
[00:19] <Volkodav> when I start compix it kicks in but errors Checking for Xgl: not present.
[00:19] <RAOF> Volkodav: Not an error.
[00:19] <Volkodav> /usr/bin/compiz.real (ezoom) - Error: InitObject failed
[00:19] <Volkodav> /usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: Couldn't activate plugin 'ezoom'
[00:19] <tanath> there are public services for some things...
[00:20] <RAOF> If you were using ATI it would also say "Checking for nvidia: not present"
[00:20] <Volkodav> well I have no cube or wobbly windows though
[00:20] <Volkodav> I am on nvidia
[00:20] <tanath> RAOF: i understand launchpad enables users to have their own repos, for instance. there's also sourceforge..
[00:20] <RAOF> tanath: Yes.  I'd suggest launchpad, which gives you bzr hosting, a bugtracker, mailinglists, translation services.
[00:20] <tanath> RAOF: dunno about mailing lists though
[00:20] <tanath> RAOF: ah
[00:21] <RAOF> Launchpad really is pretty cool; better than any of the other hosting sites I've seen.
[00:21] <tanath> RAOF: i like what i see so far
[00:22] <tanath> i did some googling and didn't find any good places to start for someone with this question
[00:22] <RAOF> The GNU project might have guidelines.
[00:23] <RAOF> And it's often good to use the same style as the major library you're using.
[00:23] <RAOF> So mono code would use the Mono project guidelines, a GTK+ app written in C would use the GTK style guidelines, etc.
[00:24] <tanath> what if i'd rather support a given standard and conform to that?
[00:24] <RAOF> That's also fine.
[00:24] <tanath> are you familiar with anything other than GNU recommendations?
[00:24] <RAOF> Consistant across your codebase is what you're after, but your codebase is your own :)
[00:24] <tanath> indeed
[00:25] <RAOF> But really, the most important things are: public version control, some easy way of contacting you/the project, and clear licensing.
[00:26] <tanath> so what are some good starting points for learning about public version control, developing deb packages, etc.?
[00:26] <RAOF> You probably don't need to worry about packaging; most projects don't.
[00:26] <RAOF> That's what we're for :)
[00:26] <tanath> hrm?
[00:27] <tanath> but if you want to get into maintaining your own packages?
[00:27] <RAOF> !packagingguide
[00:29] <tanath> you part of MOTU?
[00:29] <RAOF> As for version control, I'd use bzr: http://bazaar-vcs.org
[00:29] <RAOF> Yah.
[00:29] <tanath> love the name :P
[00:29] <tanath> thanks
[00:29] <tanath> wby bzr?
[00:29] <tanath> *why
[00:30] <RAOF> (1) It's a distributed VCS, and that's really useful.
[00:30] <RAOF> (2) It's really, really easy to use.
[00:30] <RAOF> (3) Launchpad has excellent bzr hosting
[00:30] <RAOF> (4) A couple of my friends work on it :)
[00:31] <tanath> how does a distributed VCS work?
[00:33] <RAOF> The basic difference between a centralised and distributed VCS is that in the distributed VCS there isn't a technologically-mandated 'trunk'.
[00:33] <tanath> hm
[00:33] <RAOF> Projects still have a 'trunk', but it's there by community consent, basically.
[00:34] <tanath> what about learning about various environmental aspects of linux development? like there's various things like dbus...
[00:34] <RAOF> The bazaar-vcs page can probably explain this better.
[00:35] <tanath> will look into it
[00:35] <RAOF> tanath: There's not really a unified "go-to" page for that;  The gnome developer library might be good, and I think KDE has a similar thing.
[00:35] <tanath> yeah
[00:36] <tanath> what about mentoring. it's talked about on launchpad. how does that work?
[00:36] <tanath> is there a system of some sort? or is it just basically getting someone to help you along?
[00:37] <RAOF> Launchpad has a button that a developer can press to say that they're available to help someone on a particular thing.
[00:37] <RAOF> Mostly bugs.  It's ad-hoc; there's no system there.
[00:38] <tanath> well, then i imagine the developer might have something specific in mind, whereas the person looking for a mentor may have something else in mind...
[00:38] <tanath> perhaps there ought to be a bit of a system
[00:40] <RAOF> Perhaps, but I'm not sure how that would work.
[00:40] <RAOF> Anyway, I'm off.  Good luck!
[00:40] <tanath> thanks
[01:01] <Volkodav> when I turn compiz off I loose borders on all windows in xfce
[01:01] <Volkodav> what's the fix?
[01:10] <DanaG> yay, kernel panic!
[01:10] <DanaG> Thanks, bluez!
[01:12] <tanath> Volkodav: you need to rerun your window manager
[01:12] <DanaG2> ... and again.
[01:12] <DanaG2> .... and a third time... but this time, I did it at console.
[01:13] <DanaG2> The only really important thing I can read (everything else is off the top, and not scrollback'able):
[01:14] <DanaG2> EIP: [<f8b52df1>] hci_usb_tx_process+0x211/0x3a0 [hci_usb] SS:ESP 0068:f1337cd4
[01:14] <DanaG2> Kernel panic - not syncing: Fatal exception in interrupt
[01:27] <ptn107> anyone else have a problem with Remote Desktop Viewer (vinagre) just closing the second it opens?
[01:27] <ptn107> no bugs are reported for it, it could be just my machine
[01:28] <Belboz99> ptn107: I'll check just as soon as I finish installing Alpha 3
[01:29] <Belboz99> I ran out of disk space on my VM :-P
[01:29] <ptn107> o
[01:29] <ptn107> i got it running on my spare laptop, i must say ive had no other problems with it
[01:29] <G_009> !bug
[01:29] <Belboz99> I've got almost 2TB on my home LAN, and it's all 95% full :(
[01:32]  * DanaG wishes backuppc worked better.
[01:32] <DanaG> I'm not sure what's bottlenecking it... but it's not even getting 10 megabits throughput on the network.
[01:32] <DanaG> Granted, it is writing to a USB 2.0 hard drive, so there's some CPU usage involved....
[01:32] <DanaG> but I'd expect at least, oh, 5 megabits throughput; isn't that reasonable?
[01:45] <DanaG> damn bluez.
[01:45] <DanaG> BLuetooth audio does not work for me.
[01:49] <DanaG> yay, hci-usb kernel panics.l
[01:56] <DanaG> Aah... it only panic if connected to a USB 2.0 port.
[02:04]  * DanaG goes around grumbling.
[02:30] <Belboz99> Hey all, I have one question, will there ever be an alternative for the now-defunct dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to configure graphics options through the CLI?
[02:31] <sarah_bear> hey guys, how is intrepid ibex?
[02:31] <Belboz99> because I've wasted way too much damn time trying to alter xorg.conf files manually
[02:31] <RAOF> Belboz99: I don't think that there's any such tool planned.
[02:31] <Belboz99> fark
[02:31] <RAOF> What options do you need to tweak?
[02:31] <Belboz99> I just need to set resolution
[02:31] <Belboz99> the display detection doesn't work most of the time through the GUI
[02:32] <RAOF> Then, unless you've got a crazy xorg.conf, you don't need to edit it.
[02:32] <Belboz99> so, it ends up giving 2 options, 640x480 and 800x600
[02:32] <RAOF> Which means your driver is failing, yes.
[02:32] <sarah_bear> where can i download intrepid ibex?
[02:32] <RAOF> Care to post xorg.conf & Xorg.0.log?
[02:32] <Belboz99> RAOF: I'm using VBox
[02:33] <RAOF> Belboz99: Isn't there a vbox X driver available?
[02:33] <Belboz99> but also, I've had problems before with other machines on 8.04, especially the big LCD TV
[02:33] <Belboz99> right, there is
[02:33] <RAOF> And this driver isn't working?
[02:33] <Belboz99> I believe that's what it uses, but every time I change the xorg file it won't restart the GUI, and then when I restart the VM it complains that the Xorg file is broken
[02:34] <DanaG> Oh yeah, here's one piece of advice: disable bulletproof-X; it causes more pain than it's worth, in my experience.
[02:34] <RAOF> Well, that suggests that your xorg.conf is broken.  Why don't you delete it?
[02:34] <Belboz99> RAOF: right, that driver is not working ATM
[02:34] <scyrma> how'
[02:34] <scyrma> .. how's the weather in intrepid this morning?
[02:34] <DanaG> Oh yeah, here's one lovely thing to deal with: broken EDID.
[02:34] <RAOF> DanaG: I don't think Bulletproof X is enabled at the moment; I haven't hit it recently.
[02:35] <DanaG> Toshiba has that, and it even affects Windows.
[02:35] <Belboz99> I'm in bulletproof-X, and it tells me configuration test failed, Screen was left at default, and Graphics card was set to VBox
[02:35] <DanaG> At least, some of their older laptops have that issue.
[02:35] <DanaG> =þ
[02:35] <DanaG> They identify 1024x768 as 976x768.
[02:35] <DanaG> Or some stupid thing like that.
[02:35] <RAOF> Belboz99: xorg.conf & Xorg.0.log are what I need to be able to give you sensible advice.
[02:36] <Belboz99> okay, give me a moment
[02:39] <DanaG> MMm.... and the newer versions of the bluetooth utilities have an entirely NONFUNCTIONING audio service.
[02:39] <DanaG> It doesn't even let you try to START the audio service.
[02:39] <Belboz99> http://rafb.net/p/rSIpnm64.html
[02:39] <DanaG> odd... for once, it worked....
[02:39] <DanaG> despite the lack of audio service.
[02:40] <Belboz99> RAOF: that's with a few modifications, I couldn't change the resolution, even straight Out-of-the-box
[02:40] <RAOF> Belboz99: And your Xorg.0.log?
[02:40] <RAOF> That's where the real meat will be.
[02:41] <DanaG> Mmmm, okay...
[02:41] <DanaG> then it gave an oops...
[02:41] <DanaG> and made PulseAudio and aplay devour a total of 100% of BOTH cpu cores.
[02:42] <Belboz99> http://rafb.net/p/F5QnDz59.html
[02:42] <Belboz99> sorry for the delay RAOF, I'm working between a really small VM window and a standard Ubuntu installation, with no paste between them for some reason
[02:43] <RAOF> Belboz99: got internet?  apt-get install pastebinit
[02:43] <IdleOne> Belboz99, using virtualbox?
[02:44] <DanaG> Mmm, and now PulseAudio segfaulted.
[02:44] <IdleOne> right ctrl+f  for full screen and right ctrl+l to minimize
[02:44] <DanaG> Don't you just love the state of Bluetooth audio in Linux?
[02:44] <DanaG> Brokenness all around, no matter how you slice it and dice it.
[02:44] <Belboz99> okay, pastebinit is installed
[02:45] <Belboz99> IdleOne: ctrl+f does make it go full screen, but the OS still only uses 1/4 the area of my display
[02:45] <IdleOne> strange
[02:45] <RAOF> Belboz99: Now, pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[02:46] <IdleOne> well you got pastebinit now so should be easier for you
[02:46] <Belboz99> http://pastebin.com/f7573a9a
[02:46] <DanaG> Argh, it also irritates me that I can't 'killall -9 quodlibet'
[02:47] <G_009> DBus error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: Mountpoint Already registered
[02:47] <Belboz99> oops, typo
[02:47] <RAOF> Heh.  Empty pastebin!
[02:47] <Belboz99> http://pastebin.com/f75735a9a
[02:48] <Belboz99> there ya be ;)
[02:49] <RAOF> Right; so, it's not using the VBox driver.
[02:50] <Belboz99> right, it's using vesa
[02:51] <RAOF> So, what happens if you move the xorg.conf out of the way?
[02:51] <DanaG> Mmmm: underrun!!! (at least 74873.454 ms long)
[02:51] <RAOF> 'sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf ~/xorg.conf.backup', or something.
[02:51] <Belboz99> RAOF: do you happen to know the exact name of the vbox driver?
[02:51] <Belboz99> I was thinking of specifying that in xorg.conf
[02:52] <DanaG> I: sink-input.c: Created input [number that keeps counting up as sound skips repeatedly] on alsa_output.bluetooth with sample spec s16le 2ch 44100Hz and channel map front-left, front-right
[02:53] <DanaG> It went all the way from somewhere around 20 or 50 all the way up to 231... and then stopped.
[02:53] <DanaG> And hung with silence.
[02:53] <DanaG> And when I move the stream to a different sink... pulseaudio segfaults.
[02:56] <Belboz99> RAOF: moving it out of the way just does the same as first boot, 800x600 :(
[02:56] <Belboz99> no vbox driver either I don't think
[03:01] <DanaG> how the fack are you supposed to move a stream when it keeps popping up and going away repeatedly?
[03:02] <DanaG> It's like whack-a-mole with 1/4 second timing.
[03:02] <RAOF> Belboz99: Oh, that's going to be one problem; there _isn't_ a a vbox X driver, just a vmware one.
[03:04] <RAOF> So, the problem is that vesa doesn't like what VBox is saying.
[03:04] <Belboz99> ah, IC
[03:05] <DanaG> MMmm, and PulseAudio just segfaulted again.
[03:05] <DanaG> Why is it not bringing up apport?
[03:05] <RAOF> You could _possibly_ fix this by adding a 'Virtual 1024 768' line to your Screen section.
[03:05] <DanaG> How DO you killall by name some thing that doesn't name itself?
[03:06] <DanaG> quodlibet runs as "python" -- so it's dangerous to just killall that.
[03:06] <RAOF> DanaG: By pid, of course.
[03:06] <DanaG> That's a pain.
[03:06] <DanaG> Is there at least a one-liner that'll automatically get the pid?
[03:06] <G_009> !language
[03:06] <RAOF> You could probably file a bug; quodlibet shouldn't be using /usr/bin/env python
[03:06] <DanaG> "pain" is not bad.
[03:07] <RAOF> Belboz99: Your problem seems to be that VESA doesn't like the monitor that VBox is pretending to be; it tries a less-strict mode, but before it does that it sets the virtual size to 800 600
[03:07] <DanaG> I left off "in the...".
[03:07] <RAOF> Belboz99: Incidentally... file a bug :)
[03:07] <DanaG> oh, I see, it was the 'f'.
[03:07] <DanaG> A bit late on that one.  =þ
[03:08] <RAOF> Belboz99: Since the total resolution of all attached displays can't exceed the virtual size, you lose the 1024x768 mode.
[03:15] <Belboz99> ouch
[03:50] <DanaG> grrargh, bluetooth.
[04:30] <scyrma> hmm... latest firefox package segfaults on http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=102042 ... don't know if anonymous access is possible, you might need a (free) account to see it. Tried to start firefox with -safe-mode, did the same thing
[04:31] <scyrma> though thunderbird works well today, so I'm happy :)
[04:50] <burner> anyone know how to change the audio output for flash?  it's coming out of my internal speaker all of a sudden
[04:57] <crimsun> burner: use pavucontrol
[04:57] <crimsun> and yes, the pc speaker issue is known and being addressed.
[04:58] <DanaG> Ideally, it'd only be used if nothing else exists.
[04:58] <DanaG> I actually can see some use cases for that -- it'd let servers make warning sounds, and such.
[04:59] <DanaG> Without having to deal with real sound cards, that is.
[05:00] <crimsun> except there's no sane initial (default) volume control or level.
[05:00] <crimsun> that makes the pc speaker all but useluss
[05:00] <crimsun> useless*
[05:02] <DanaG> Aah.  Well, a sane default volume would be minimum -- and then let people increase it if they want to use it.
[05:02] <DanaG> You'd want to disable the module by default, anyway... but don't not-compile it, because some people might want to explicitly enable it.
[05:02] <DanaG> s/disable/blacklist/
[05:04] <crimsun> "minimum"?  what is that?
[05:04] <DanaG> Zero.
[05:04] <DanaG> Muted.
[05:05] <DanaG> Whatever
[05:05] <DanaG> .
[05:05] <crimsun> and luke is not disabling or blacklisting the kernel driver.  Instead, he'll ignore it in PulseAudio's hal parsing.
[05:05] <DanaG> Aah.  That makes sense -- then if people want it, they can explicitly load it.
[05:26] <burner> aww yeah!  pavucontrol is sweet.  I knew it was a known issue about the internal speaker, thanks for the workaround crimsun
[06:06] <DanaG> (EE) SAVAGE(0): DRI isn't enabled
[06:06] <DanaG> (WW) SAVAGE(0): Direct rendering disabled
[06:06] <DanaG> How do I enable DRI?
[06:09] <RAOF> On savage?
[06:09] <RAOF> That's a blast from the past.
[06:13] <DanaG> Yeah.
[06:13] <DanaG> It
[06:13] <DanaG> It's an old Athlon XP laptop.
[06:13] <DanaG> Chip is "TwisterK"
[06:13] <DanaG> I don't expect 3D... but even 2D things like Firefox scrolling are being slow.
[06:13] <DanaG> Even without compositing in Metacity.
[06:13] <RAOF> Well, that's not DRI
[06:13] <DanaG> Oh.
[06:13] <RAOF> DRI is _exactly_ 3D.
[06:14] <RAOF> As for 2D being slow... seems like it sucks to have a savage card.
[06:15] <DanaG> Hmm, well, I wonder what I can even do with Savage in 3D.
[06:15] <RAOF> Perhaps you could play with the XAA acceleration options; I doubt it's using EXA.
[06:15] <DanaG> EXA just makes the screen become garbage.
[06:16] <DanaG> I've tried several times over the past year or so (same laptop).
[06:16] <RAOF> I'm surprised X even starts when you try.
[06:16] <RAOF> I wouldn't have thought that there'd've been any EXA hookup in that driver.
[06:19] <DanaG> man savage.
[06:19] <DanaG> It does offer EXA.
[06:20] <RAOF> Wow.
[06:20] <RAOF> I stand corrected.
[06:20] <DanaG> Oh yeah, does VIA Rhine ethernet just suck?  I'm using backuppc on that laptop (Athlon XP 1.2GHz, with 768 megs of RAM, though 32 go to the video chip).
[06:21] <DanaG> I'm getting pathetic throughput on it, for some reason.
[06:21] <LSD|Ninja> Everything VIA has a nasty tendency to suck
[06:21] <DanaG> I am using a USB hard drive, true enough...
[06:21] <DanaG> but I'd expect to get at least 5 megabits, not just 200 kilobits or so.
[06:21] <DanaG> How can I benchmark the NIC?
[06:44] <DanaG> Oh yeah, is there a way to make HAL mount USB hard drives even before I log in?
[06:47] <DanaG> Woah, I fixed DRI.
[06:47] <DanaG> Having nvidia installed on a non-nvidia-containing system == bad.
[06:49] <DanaG> Bummer... no NPOT support.
[06:49] <DanaG> non-power-of-two.
[06:52] <DanaG> Woah, aiglx works with it.
[06:52] <DanaG> I can run the flux screensaver from it (ssh client is nvidia).
[06:52] <DanaG> I'm getting 2 megabytes per second received by the nvidia box.
[06:53] <LSD|Ninja> I wish NetworkManager had an option to start interfaces at boot. It's a pain to have to be logged in in order to get connectivity >_<
[06:53] <DanaG> Note to self......
[06:54] <DanaG> don't run compiz over ssh.
[06:54] <DanaG> =þ
[06:54] <DanaG> It kills the local box.
[06:54] <DanaG> er
[06:54] <DanaG> kills the local X.
[06:54]  * DanaG is laughing at himself.
[06:55] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: That's been slated for 0.7 for a while; I dunno if it's in yet.
[06:55] <RAOF> DanaG: Yeah, nvidia-glx breaks *.  I believe fglrx does the same.
[06:55] <DanaG> Oh, hmm.
[06:56] <DanaG> I'm ssh'd from the savage box into the nvidia box now.
[06:56] <DanaG> I can run metacity over ssh, and it works.
[06:56] <DanaG> And has compositing, too.
[06:56] <RAOF> You _may_ be able to run compiz.  nVidia's GL stack should allow it.
[06:56] <DanaG> I tried ssh from savage->nvidia box.
[06:56] <DanaG> Running compiz spits out the NPOT issue.
[06:57] <RAOF> Oh, right.
[06:57] <DanaG> Running nvidia->savage kills X on the nvidia box.
[06:57] <RAOF> Orly?
[06:57] <RAOF> Cool.
[06:58] <DanaG> I mean, running compiz that way does.
[06:58] <DanaG> But some other OpenGL stuff works.
[06:58] <DanaG> Like rss-glx "flux" screensaver.
[06:59] <RAOF> Compiz is pretty good at exercising corner cases.
[07:00]  * DanaG is trying tremulous under savage->nv
[07:00] <DanaG> Works slowly, crappily.
[07:00] <DanaG> And it outputs audio on the nvidia box.
[07:02] <DanaG> interesting... glxheads over ssh runs on the box I'm ssh'd into, not on the local.
[07:13] <DanaG> How do you make "savage" stretch the LCD image?
[07:25] <DanaG> !find asm/io.h
[07:25] <DanaG> find io.h
[07:25] <DanaG> er
[07:25] <DanaG> !find io.h
[07:28] <DanaG> nope...
[07:31] <Finnish> Where do I find new themes for Ibex?
[07:31] <LSD|Ninja> Same place you would anything else, it's just GNOME
[07:32] <DanaG> Argh... I had to manually find the right path in /usr/src/linux-headers.....
[07:32] <LSD|Ninja> I simply used the Nodoka packages I alien'd from the Fedora RPMs I was using on Hardy. Seem to work just fine.
[07:32] <DanaG> I'm using the "nanolx" theme repo.
[07:34] <Finnish> So I need to define a repo for a theme?
[07:34] <DanaG> http://www.nanolx.org/
[07:35] <DanaG> http://www.nanolx.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=1
[07:35] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: You're aware that nodoka is in Intrepid, right?
[07:36] <LSD|Ninja> RAOF: It is? o_O
[07:36]  * RAOF liked the theme, so it is.  It's in Lenny, too.
[07:37] <RAOF> It really isn't much effort to maintain a gtk-engine or two :)
[07:37] <LSD|Ninja> I'll keep that in mind when I get around to reinstalling Intrepid
[07:37] <DanaG> My theme:
[07:37] <DanaG> http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
[07:38] <LSD|Ninja> heh, I installed Nodoka to get away from the crappy orange :P
[07:39] <DanaG> I got away from the crappy orange to a nice orange.
[07:39] <DanaG> My screen is too dim to use anything darker.
[07:40] <DanaG> s/to/for me to/
[07:41] <DanaG> Do an image search for 'nodoka' and you'll find who the name reminds me of.
[08:03] <DanaG> I wonder which would be better for backuppc:
[08:04] <DanaG> A.  Athlon XP 1.2GHz, 768 (minus 32) MB RAM, via-rhine ethernet
[08:04] <DanaG> oh, and SDRAM, at that.
[08:04] <DanaG> B. Celeron 1.5GHz, 256MB DDR RAM, Intel e100 ethernet.
[08:05] <DanaG> BOth would need a cardbus ethernet card.
[08:07] <LSD|Ninja> DanaG: why would the Intel one need an ethernet card, onboard dead?
[08:18] <DanaG> er
[08:18] <DanaG> silly me
[08:19] <DanaG> s/ethernet/USB 2.0/
[08:19] <DanaG> =þ
[08:46] <chowmeined> why is intrepid so slow compared to hardy?
[09:40] <hyperair> does anybody know when nvidia-glx-96 is going to work again?
[09:40] <LSD|Ninja> hyperair: maybe when Ubuntu get around to updating it to .07, maybe not
[09:40] <LSD|Ninja> hyperair: Depends whether nVidia fixed it for the latest round of xorg breakage or not
[09:41] <RAOF> Nouveau's grown some XVMC acceleration... :)
[09:41] <RAOF> But not if you need nvidia-glx-96, I think.
[09:42] <hyperair> wait.. there's a .07?
[09:42] <LSD|Ninja> All I want is to get compiz running, will nouveau do that?
[09:42] <LSD|Ninja> hyperair: for a while now, Ubuntu haven't updated to it yet
[09:42] <hyperair> nope it won't
[09:42] <hyperair> LSD|Ninja: does .07 work for the latest round of xorg breakage?
[09:43] <LSD|Ninja> hyperair: I don't know, I've been waiting for it to hit the repos so I don't break stuff later
[09:44] <hyperair> i see.
[09:44] <hyperair> well i stupidly upgraded my hardy to intrepid and now i am compizless in ubuntu
[09:44] <hyperair> so i'm sticking with my archlinux until intrepid gets compiz back working for me....
[09:44] <hyperair> or....
[09:45] <hyperair> i lose my patience with archlinux entirely
[09:45] <hyperair> then i'll just install hardy again
[09:46] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: No, nouveau aint gonna give you compiz.  Not for a while.
[09:46] <LSD|Ninja> That's what I thought ;)
[09:46]  * hyperair wonders whether ati cards are safe to use yet
[09:47] <LSD|Ninja> r300 wasn't too bad last I checked and is in Intrepid afaik, not sure about the newer ones though
[09:47] <RAOF> fglrx is getting much better.
[09:48] <RAOF> But, as always, don't grab the newest cards :)
[09:48] <hyperair> hahah
[09:48] <hyperair> i see
[09:48] <hyperair> well
[09:48] <hyperair> i'll grab an nvidia imo
[09:48] <hyperair> or intel
[09:48] <DanaG> My next laptop will likely have an HD3600-series.
[09:48] <LSD|Ninja> RAOF: or the oldest either in this case :P
[09:48] <hyperair> are there any intels that don't work with compiz?
[09:49] <RAOF> hyperair: None that you can buy now.
[09:49] <hyperair> goody
[09:49] <LSD|Ninja> hyperair: My GMA950 did, I expecte X3100 should by now, the new one will probably have teething trouble but that'll work out eventually
[09:49] <RAOF> LSD|Ninja: You need to go _old_ before you hit an ati card that won't do compiz now.
[09:49] <hyperair> hmm
[09:50] <LSD|Ninja> RAOF: I was being general, the older nVidia's need older drivers which is the problem here :P
[09:50] <RAOF> Right.
[09:50] <RAOF> At least when ATI drops support for a card there's a pretty much fully-featured open-source driver to catch you.
[09:51] <RAOF> We need to keep 4 frikkin nvidia drivers in the archives.
[09:52] <telexicon> RAOF, like mine
[09:52] <telexicon> except the open source driver has a lot of problems with this card
[09:53] <LSD|Ninja> RAOF: The only reason for that was the last card series ATi dropped support for predated them closing their drivers
[09:53] <DanaG> What's a good filesystem for storing backups of multiple computers?
[09:53] <RAOF> DanaG: EXT3?
[09:54] <DanaG> Needs to be relatively fast, and not run out of inodes.
[09:54]  * RAOF still thinks EXT3 is likely to be the winner
[09:55] <DanaG> What of XFS or JFS or reiser?
[09:55] <RAOF> XFS isn't exactly the first filesystem I think of when I hear "backup".
[09:56] <DanaG> Hmm.
[09:56] <DanaG> Can't say I know anything about it, anyway.
[09:56] <LSD|Ninja> all variants of reiser are pretty much dead (no pun intended, honest) now, JFS I don't know anything about it and XFS probably isn't what you want on a backup drive. ext3 is well proven and reliable so you're probably best to stick with that
[09:56] <telexicon> ive never had troubles with xfs
[09:56] <telexicon> but the code complexity is troublesome
[09:57] <LSD|Ninja> Neither have I but I still wouldn't recommend it where integrity is of the utmost importance
[09:57] <telexicon> i wish they'd hurry up with btrfs v_v
[09:57] <LSD|Ninja> If you don't treat xfs with respect, you will lose stuff. It's just how it works.
[09:57] <DanaG> Hmm, so how do I ensure that I'll have enough inodes on ext3?
[09:58] <RAOF> By taking the default setup, I believe.
[09:59] <DanaG> There'll be one XP MCE (really essentially pro) machine, one XP Home, one Vista Ultimate / Ubuntu combo.
[09:59] <RAOF> I'm not aware of inode exhaustion being a serious problem with ext3; what's going to be special with your setup that you'd be hitting an inode limit?
[09:59] <DanaG> So it'll need lots of inodes.
[09:59] <DanaG> And the partition is currently... oh...
[09:59] <DanaG> hmm... checking size.
[09:59] <LSD|Ninja> DanaG: If it's mostly Windows machines then consider one of those Windows Home Server boxes, backing up Windows boxes is opne of the functions of the software
[10:00] <DanaG> Partition is currently ~350 gigs; drive is a 700 (real) gig drive.
[10:00] <RAOF> DanaG: And it'll have a lot of inodes; I think the only way you'll run out of inodes is if you want to create billions of zero-byte files.
[10:00] <DanaG> I can just do "system state" backups on each box locally, and then do file backups of user profiles.
[10:04] <DanaG> hmm, still can't decide what FS to use.
[10:05] <RAOF> ext3.  It's not default for nothing :)
[10:05] <RAOF> Although it really doesn't matter very much.  The filesystem is unlikely to be your bottleneck.
[10:07] <DanaG> Can you change the number of inodes after the fact>
[10:07] <DanaG> ?
[10:07] <RAOF> I don't think so.
[10:07] <RAOF> But, again, I don't think inode exhaustion is a problem you'll actually _hit_.
[10:08] <DanaG> I noticed high iowait times when using the backup thingy, but I wasn't getting even close to the USB 2.0 theoretical bandwidth (or even to the 20 megabytes per second I'd usually see).
[10:08] <DanaG> I was seeing more like 5 megabytes per second, tops.
[10:08] <RAOF> You're backing up to an external USB drive?
[10:09] <DanaG> For now, yes.
[10:09] <DanaG> I may get an eSATA card, though.
[10:09] <DanaG> It'll likely still be that Athlon XP laptop, though.
[10:10] <RAOF> Basically, the impression I've got from the benchmarks I've seen is that ext is not really significantly slower than the other options under reasonable use.
[10:10] <LSD|Ninja> it used to be
[10:11] <LSD|Ninja> They implemented some speedups a while back that improved it a lot
[10:11] <RAOF> There are specific things that other filesystems do better at, but I don't remember any that you'd be likely to hit.
[10:11] <RAOF> ext also has the advantage of being reasonably CPU cheap.
[10:12] <RAOF> Bah.  How are you supposed to properly unittest C# code when all the implementation is private!
[10:12] <DanaG> Note that it'll also have a helluvalot of hard links.
[10:13] <RAOF> Many of which will be linked to files of reasonable size.
[10:14] <DanaG> So should I just go with the default  "bytes-per-inode" setting?
[10:16] <RAOF> That would be my guess.
[10:17] <DanaG>            dir_index    :   Use  hashed  b-trees  to  speed  up lookups in large directories.
[10:17] <DanaG> hmm, should I set that?
[10:17] <RAOF> It's not enabled by default?
[10:18] <DanaG> Beats me.
[10:18] <DanaG> that's all man mkfs.ext3 gives for description right there.
[10:18] <RAOF> I'm pretty sure it's default.  It won't hurt to specify it as well, though.
[10:19] <RAOF> That feature is a fairly serious performance win on listing directories.
[10:19] <DanaG> mke2fs.conf:   [defaults]	base_features = sparse_super,filetype,resize_inode,dir_index,ext_attr      	blocksize = 4096         	inode_size = 256      	inode_ratio = 16384
[10:19] <DanaG> that's with linebreaks removed, to avoid pastespam.
[10:20] <RAOF> Thar you go.
[10:21] <DanaG> Block size=4096 (log=2)        Fragment size=4096 (log=2)        22814720 inodes, 91247191 blocks        4562359 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user        First data block=0        Maximum filesystem blocks=0        2785 block groups        32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group        8192 inodes per group        Superblock backups stored on blocks:         	32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605
[10:22] <DanaG> again replaced line breaks with 8 spaces.
[10:22] <DanaG> 22 million inodes... will likely be enough, I'd say.
[10:22] <DanaG> If not, I can just remake the filesystem, as long as the systems are in good condition at the time.
[10:23] <DanaG> While doing that, I'm getting roughly 40 megabytes per second (over firewire, at the moment).
[11:47] <DanaG> !iscsi
[11:48] <DanaG> hmm, I see open-iscsi and iscsitarget...
[11:48] <DanaG> is the former only an initiator?
[12:20] <DanaG> yay, iscsi > vboxsf
[12:20] <DanaG> because the latter can't give bare access to things like hardlinks.
[12:21] <DanaG> (I'm working around the via-rhine suckiness by running the backup server in a VM at the moment, just for the first few backups.
[12:21] <DanaG> )
[13:31] <hyperair> iscsi?
[13:31] <hyperair> how dyou do something like that?
[14:06] <cwillu> what's intrepid looking like these days?
[14:12] <gnomefreak> cwillu: broken for most
[14:13] <gnomefreak> s/most/alot
[14:13] <cwillu> (I'd expect nothing less)
[14:13] <cwillu> anything shiny though?
[14:14] <gnomefreak> cwillu: no you wont see those changes for a long while, shiy is last to be added
[14:14] <Pici> I have shiny errors.
[14:14] <gnomefreak> shiny
[14:14] <gnomefreak> themes, pics, artwork is all added last
[14:15] <cwillu> gnomefreak, I considered gvfs to be shiney
[14:15] <gnomefreak> and since most of the first month was updating Hardy we got startted a bit late
[14:15] <gnomefreak> gvfs is ok last i heard. but not sure atm
[14:16] <gnomefreak> i rebuilt it looking for a problem but it wasnt in gvfs
[14:16] <gnomefreak> oh wait no it has bugs listed on it.
[14:16] <gnomefreak> i ran througha  few of them the past few weeks
[14:18] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=gvfs&search=Search+Bug+Reports&field.scope=all&field.scope.target=   have fun finding what ones are still there
[14:18] <gnomefreak> thats ~261
[14:18] <gnomefreak> most are crashes
[14:18] <gnomefreak> that i see
[14:18] <gnomefreak> take edge out of the link
[14:18] <gnomefreak> if your not running it
[14:19] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=gvfs&search=Search+Bug+Reports&field.scope=all&field.scope.target=   have fun finding what ones are still there
[14:36] <cwillu> gnomefreak, it isn't possible to get a 'date reported' showing under the bug search is it?
[14:36] <gnomefreak> cwillu: each bug has a date but to search by date no
[14:37] <cwillu> just want to sort the search results by date :/
[14:37] <cwillu> would it be considered rude to wget all 259 results to do it locally? :p
[14:37] <cwillu> gnomefreak, ^^^  (sorry to bug you in two channels :p)
[14:38] <gnomefreak> lol you might beable to use what used to be called bughelper
[14:38] <gnomefreak> cwillu: its ok while im here
[14:46] <Finnish_> I'm watching myspace-pages, and mozilla suddenly quits. What's this?
[14:47] <gnomefreak> Finnish_: in hardy?
[14:47] <Finnish_> Ibex
[14:48] <gnomefreak> Finnish_: than you should know better :( remove libflashsupport set PA to default and have fun. Finnish_ smarter thing is to file a bug after you try that
[14:49] <gnomefreak> if you see something broke file a bug if you cant figure it out yourself this is the fastest way to get it fixed if you can fix it
[14:49] <gnomefreak> this way i can fix your problem with firefox
[14:50] <Finnish_> Ok, I'll try, but first some caffee
[14:50]  * gnomefreak missing a few devs due to mozilla summit so i cant fix all bugs this week
[14:51] <Finnish_> BTW, what is PA
[14:51] <cwillu> pulseaudio
[14:51] <cwillu> (known troubles with pulseaudio + flash + libflashsupport)
[14:54] <gnomefreak> cwillu: PA fixes the issue with flash 10 perfectly and since he asked in her ei have to assume hes using flash 10
[14:54] <gnomefreak> libflashsupport is the #1 cause of crash with flash
[14:54] <cwillu> libflashsupport still has the same problem though eh?  just isn't needed at all anymore with 10?
[14:55] <gnomefreak> flash is #3 cause of ff3 crashes
[14:55] <gnomefreak> cwillu: some? it is a problem we are looking at getting it removed from all versions of Ubuntu
[14:56] <cwillu> some?
[14:56] <gnomefreak> we are also gonna wait for flash10 final before trying that backport again
[14:56] <gnomefreak> oh you said same
[14:56] <gnomefreak> sorry
[14:56] <cwillu> had me all confused there
[14:56] <gnomefreak> not needed with 9 either
[14:57] <cwillu> without grabbing the device from pa?
[14:57] <gnomefreak> nspluginwrapper may need it that i dont remember but it will be fixed as well so it isnt used in Ubuntu. just alot of hoops to jump through to get it removed from stable releases
[14:57] <gnomefreak> Wicks: strickly a sound bug with pa vs. libflash
[14:57] <cwillu> no, I'm using nspluginwrapper without libflashsupport
[14:58] <cwillu> works fine
[14:58] <gnomefreak> cwillu: good than no stopping us atm but we will see
[14:58] <cwillu> what!? you don't want to aggressively push patches into 8.04 without adequate testing?  what's wrong with you!?
[14:59] <gnomefreak> when people get back from summit and i get caught up with them we will work on it some more
[14:59] <gnomefreak> cwillu: it was backported and i teested it as required
[14:59] <gnomefreak> i cant test 64 mac ect...
[14:59] <gnomefreak> cwillu: i have to go and get some work done
[14:59] <cwillu> ya, sorry for bugging you
[15:06] <gnomefreak> cw no bother i had time ot waste while getting info i needed to continue
[15:07] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  i wonder how i got libflashsupport installed again.
[15:08] <Hobbsee> i purge it, firefox dosn't crash.  woot!
[15:09]  * Hobbsee was getting really bored with it crashing every few pages.
[15:09] <gnomefreak> cwillu: i added it to our agenda for sunday meeting so i cant forget
[15:33] <Zdra> Hi, is there plans to install canberra by default in ibex?
[15:34] <Zdra> along with fd.o sound theme
[15:35] <bazhang> !info canberra
[15:35] <gnomefreak> Zdra: canberra is not a package and as for fd.o not likely since there hasnt been any talk about it
[15:35] <Zdra> gnomefreak: too bad :(
[15:35] <gnomefreak> bazhang: it has never been packaged under that name
[15:35] <askand1> Does anyone know the reason they have changed place on administrationmenu and settingsmenu in Intrepid?
[15:36] <bazhang> gnomefreak, just trying to be helpful ; my mistake
[15:36] <gnomefreak> askand1: gnome did that afaik
[15:36] <gnomefreak> bazhang: its ok you can have it
[15:36] <gnomefreak> bazhang: i just didnt want you looking too hard for it
[15:36] <bazhang> gnomefreak, thanks
[15:36] <Zdra> gnomefreak: is there packages somewhere for hardy I could install?
[15:36] <gnomefreak> np
[15:36] <gnomefreak> Zdra: not on intrepid
[15:36]  * Zdra searches for a ppa but I can't find one with libcanberra-gtk
[15:37] <gnomefreak> Zdra: that would be extreamly unsmart
[15:37] <gnomefreak> Zdra: good luck but it wont be a PPA and im about 90% sure on that
[15:38] <askand1> gnomefreak: I see
[15:38] <Zdra> gnomefreak: ok :(
[15:38] <Zdra> I'll have to compile it myself :(
[15:38] <gnomefreak> Zdra: either way that is well past support so you might be better off in #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:17] <Finnish_> I'm trying to launch remote desktop viewer, it shuts down before it starts
[17:11] <G_009> DBus error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: Mountpoint Already registered  -  devices and/or folders (even network folders via samba) mount with this error.
[17:56] <aguitel> how make numlock on in startup ?
[18:29] <parachutepop> i have my collection of artwork
[18:36] <parachutepop> www.gnome-look.org/.../search.php?username=dragoninsane&PHPSESSID=2d9d727fc262f915e203644e58139535
[18:37] <Dedi> anyone knows a fix for firefox + flash popping up alot of empty windows? ;)
[18:39] <crimsun> on what arch, amd64?
[18:39] <Dedi> crimsun: yep, is it something common?
[18:39] <crimsun> appears to be.
[18:40] <crimsun> no known workaround aside from using swfdec instead.
[18:40] <Dedi> anyone found a quick fix?
[18:40] <crimsun> which means yes, you need to purge flashplugin-nonfree
[18:41] <Dedi> no problem :) try that thanks
[18:41] <crimsun> and of course, you lose the ability to use flash on some sites, because swfdec does not implement everything flash does
[18:49] <Dedi> was a try woth, but seems too much dont work with swfdec
[18:49] <Dedi> damn nonfree stuff :>
[18:52] <crimsun> perhaps the situation will change after Flash 10 becomes final.
[18:53] <crimsun> (not the non-Free bit but the stability bit)
[18:55] <Dedi> hopefully also the performance :)
[18:58] <Finnish_> Any idea? I'm trying to launch remote desktop viewer, it shuts down before it starts
[18:59] <Pici> Run it from a terminal and see if it reports any errors
[19:00] <Finnish_> Autoselected keyboard map en-us
[19:00] <Finnish_> ERROR: recv: Connection reset by peer?
[19:01] <Finnish_> rdesktop 112.149.171.***:****
[19:01] <Finnish_> That's the command I tried
[20:23] <aguitel> why aptitude is  command not found
[20:23] <aguitel> ?
[20:36] <Unksi> aguitel: its not installed?
[20:37] <aguitel> Unksi, yes
[20:37] <Unksi> yes, as in, not installed, or yes as in, it is installed? :D
[20:38] <aguitel> Unksi, need to install
[20:38] <Unksi> ok
[20:38] <aguitel> Unksi, you are working with intrepid?
[20:39] <Unksi> so thats the solution then^
[20:39] <Unksi> i am testing it atm, not more than that
[20:39] <aguitel> what is atm ?
[20:40] <Unksi> on full use on my (yea, should not) production machine so should get a nice picture
[20:40] <Unksi> at the moment
[20:41] <Unksi> i can install hardy back for temporary solution in state of emergency and have a full working system in about 30 minutes though, so its not that bad if it breaks when i really need to do something
[20:41] <aguitel> Unksi, for me is fine right now
[20:42] <Unksi> yea works well here as well
[20:43] <Unksi> only some kernel panics at boot sometimes, but thats not that bad as it has boot at 2nd try so far
[20:44] <aguitel> Unksi, detect wich device produce panic and use another driver for it
[20:44] <Unksi> hmm ok
[20:45] <aguitel> Unksi, maybe wifi card
[20:46] <Unksi> may be, intel wlan just got working at alpha 3
[20:46] <Unksi> 2 days before the release it was still totally broken
[20:47] <aguitel> Unksi, could use ndiswrapper for this card?
[20:47]  * Unksi grabs his shotgun for when the satan appears
[20:47] <Unksi> ;)
[20:48] <Unksi> no way im gonna try that again, still have traumas from the last time ;)
[21:51] <negge> is there any way to use another driver than vesa with my radeon 9550 card?
[21:51] <negge> I tried installing the fglrx package but that totally didn't work and neither "ati" or the "radeon" driver seems to work
[21:51] <negge> now I'm stuck with 1280x1024 res
[21:52] <crdlb> which isn't your monitor's native resolution?
[21:53] <crdlb> when you say "didn't work", what does that mean?
[21:54] <crdlb> that X failed to start, or that they didn't provide your desired resolution?
[21:54] <negge> crdlb: I have a CRT so there is no native resolution, but I prefer 1600x1200
[21:55] <negge> after installing the xorg-driver-fglrx package (or whatever it's called) I rebooted, nothing happened so I went to Hardware Drivers and now the driver was listed there (it wasn't before). After enabling it and rebooting Ubuntu warned me that it's running in low-graphics mode
[21:56] <negge> I tried to configure it but no matter which driver I chose it failed when I hit the Test button
[21:56] <crdlb> ok
[21:56] <negge> any ideas?
[21:56] <crdlb> uninstall xorg-driver-fglrx, and put Driver "ati" in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[21:57] <negge> I tried that, it started in low-graphics mode again
[21:57] <crdlb> is xserver-xorg-video-ati installed?
[21:57] <negge> yes it is
[21:57] <crdlb> then we need to see what the error is
[21:57] <negge> how?
[21:59] <crdlb> if nothing else works, you can stop gdm and use startx manually
[21:59] <crdlb> but hopefully you should be able to get the log from /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
[21:59] <crdlb> immediately after trying it
[22:00] <negge> crdlb: I'll try it
[22:02] <negge> I don't know crdlb but somehow it just worked now:D
[22:02] <negge> I must have remembered wrong when I said I'd tried it, I know I tried using the radeon driver and atleast that didn't work
[23:04] <Volkodav> can I mount Apple's HFS+ whatever it's called?
[23:04] <Volkodav> fedora mounts it automatically
[23:04] <Volkodav> it shows as unknown in fdisk
[23:08] <Jordan_U> Any idea when restricted modules will be working?
[23:14] <RAOF> Volkodav: Yes, should work automatically.
[23:14] <RAOF> Jordan_U: Works now, doesn't it?
[23:14] <Volkodav> Had to mount it manually for some reason
[23:15] <Jordan_U> RAOF: Didn't last time I tried, I'll try again
[23:30] <Cecil> i can only get 2 work spaces when running nvidia 173, i'd like to have 4 for the qube effect
[23:30] <Cecil> (cube) dummy !
[23:34] <Dedi> Cecil: dont think thats a nvidia problem. you checked system settings -> desktop?
[23:35] <Cecil> im not sure i have, i'll give it a try, Thanks


[00:32] <eshaase> hyperair: yes, the default ubuntu kernel supports it
[00:33] <eshaase> i'm testing out one of the ubuntu kernel team's 2.6.30 kernels and it works great except I don't have any audio, can someone steer me in the right direction please? Perhaps I need to compile in another module or something? I have a "Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller"
[00:40] <AceLan> eshaase: maybe it just be muted, have you run alsamixer to check it?
[01:36] <eshaase> AceLan: yeah, i've checked and its not muted
[01:42] <TheMuso> eshaase: Have you tried with kernel 2.6.31, or a recent alsa-driver snapshot?
[01:53] <eshaase> TheMuso: i'll try with 2.6.31
[01:53] <eshaase> TheMuso: i know what alsa is but what is alsa-driver?
[02:22] <TheMuso> eshaase: Its the component of alsa that deals with the kernel drivers.
[02:22] <TheMuso> eshaase: Anyway try 2.6.31 as that should pretty much have the latest alsa code.
[02:23] <TheMuso> bar a few bits that are not in the mainline kernel yet, but I don't think they will matter.
[02:46] <eshaase> ok, i'll give that a shot, brb
[08:48] <lesshaste> hi
[08:48] <lesshaste> can anyone tell me when jaunty uses kexec to boot ?  I am trying to debug a problem where grub is skipped after a poweroff and it looks suspiciously like kexec is being used by jaunty
[08:49] <lesshaste> but I could be wrong
[08:49] <andersk> Is the kexec-tools package installed?
[08:49] <lesshaste> andersk: no
[08:50] <andersk> Is there an /etc/init.d/kexec-load?
[08:50] <lesshaste> no
[08:50] <andersk> Wait--it's skipped after a _poweroff_, not after a reboot?  That isn't kexec, then.
[08:50] <lesshaste> that's right
[08:51] <lesshaste> it's very odd
[08:51] <lesshaste> restart works as normal
[08:51] <lesshaste> but after shutdown -P or -h grub is skipped
[08:51] <lesshaste> and I/we have no idea how to start debugging it
[08:52] <andersk> Maybe this is some kind of grub savedefault thing?  I don't remember how that works.
[08:53] <lesshaste> interesting.. it does take 15 seconds to boot as well which just generally seemed fast to me
[08:53] <lesshaste> according to dmesg that is
[08:57] <lesshaste> andersk: I don't think it's that... my menu.1st is quite boring and has timeout 10 ,  http://pastebin.com/f607db10f
[09:00] <andersk> Your `default 8` is out of range; you have 7 entries (0-6).
[09:00] <lesshaste> andersk: aargh.. I just gave you the wrong file sorry
[09:00] <lesshaste> let me fix that
[09:08] <lesshaste> andersk: ok  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28500841/menu.lst
[09:08] <lesshaste> andersk: all the info is in the bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/389930
[09:08] <ubot3> Malone bug 389930 in grub "grub menu skipped after shutdown" [Low,New]
[09:12] <lesshaste> andersk: sorry for the delay
[09:16] <lesshaste> hi tgpraveen
[09:17] <tgpraveen> hi lesshaste
[09:17] <lesshaste> tgpraveen: do you happen to know anything about the kernel? :) Everyone I ask turns out to be a newbie
[09:18] <tgpraveen> lol i am sorry i too am a newbie
[09:18] <tgpraveen> anyways ask what u want to and i see a lot of expereienced ppl in the chat list
[09:18] <tgpraveen> so someone will answer
[09:18] <lesshaste> tgpraveen: they don't reply :(
[09:19] <tgpraveen> lesshaste: hmm they might be busy. my advice try the mailing list
[09:19] <lesshaste> is there a ubuntu kernel mailing list?
[09:21] <lesshaste> ah yes.. I just found it
[09:21] <lesshaste> maybe a non newbie will arrive ...
[09:21] <lesshaste> tgpraveen: out of interest.. are you here to ask a question too?
[09:22] <tgpraveen> not really just to browse around
[09:22] <tgpraveen> u know see what others are talking abt
[09:22] <tgpraveen> and out of  intrest what is your question
[09:23] <lesshaste> well..  after a poweroff (shutdown -h or shutdown -P) my laptop skips grub when it restarts
[09:23] <lesshaste> but after a restart (shutdown -r) it doesn't
[09:24] <tgpraveen> hmm i am not sure but that doesnt really sound like a kernel issue though i might be wrong
[09:24] <tgpraveen> maybe u should try #ubuntu-devel
[09:26] <lesshaste> ok
[09:26] <lesshaste> tgpraveen: the problem is that there are just facts I am missing
[09:27] <lesshaste> tgpraveen: does ubuntu have some mechanism for kick starting the kernel extra quick that could be causing this
[09:27] <lesshaste> tgpraveen: I also notice the boot time is very fast
[09:28] <tgpraveen> lesshaste: karmic or jaunty?
[09:28] <lesshaste> jaunty
[09:28] <tgpraveen> hmm dont really know. dont ask in #ubuntu-devel for jaunty
[09:29] <tgpraveen> i guess u should file a bug report on launchpad
[09:29] <lesshaste> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/389930
[09:29] <tgpraveen> and wait for somebody to answer here
[09:29] <ubot3> Malone bug 389930 in grub "grub menu skipped after shutdown" [Low,New]
[09:29] <lesshaste> :)
[09:29] <lesshaste> it got assigned to the wrong place I think
[09:30] <tgpraveen> yes gnome power mgr isnot the right package
[09:30] <lesshaste> nor is grub
[09:30] <lesshaste> where it is assigned now
[09:50] <apw> smb, we expect compat-wireless to be newer than the kernel in general right?
[09:50] <apw> newer but still compatible
[09:51] <smb> apw, a) yes (I would) and b) hopefully (as in compat).
[09:51] <smb> apw, why?
[09:53] <apw> am trying to update lbm, but it seems behind mainline for one accessor
[09:53] <apw> so i suspect its not been updates since the merge window closed
[09:53] <apw> so i guess fixing it (i think its gonna be easy) is worth it else we cannot upload it, nor linux-meta
[09:55] <smb> apw, Have you checked with the compat-wireless sources or just with what we have in lbm?
[09:56] <apw> this is after using the update script to get the latest version from the repo
[09:56] <smb> Ok, which driver do we talk of?
[09:58] <apw> updates/compat-wireless-2.6/drivers/net/wireless/mac80211_hwsim.c
[09:58] <smb> Probably the other approach would be to go with the slightly outdated driver in lbm until the sources get updated. After all lbm is only best-effort and opt-in
[09:58] <apw> is the file with the error, sounds like a simulator too
[09:58] <smb> Oh, it actually fails to build
[09:58] <apw> well i think the problem is that _all_ versions would not compile, cause its out of date wtf to the mainline kernel
[09:58] <apw> yeah fails to build right now
[09:59] <apw> i may have fixed it, but i am just trying to gauge if it is correct to fix it in this context, i think it likely is
[10:00] <smb> I would say yes. Better to have a compiling package at that stage
[10:00] <smb> We would likely pick up an updated upstream as soon as there is one
[10:00] <smb> (upstream being the compat-wireless sourcE)
[10:01] <apw> right ... it working is the bit that i see as best effort.  we need something in the package which builds and installs at least
[10:02] <apw> ok .. good then i think i am going the right way :)  thanks
[10:02] <smb> Yes, that sounds much sensible. I guess so. :) NP
[10:08] <lesshaste> hi all
[10:09] <lesshaste> I have sort of fixed my weird grub error but ... what part of linux is running when the grub menu is showing?
[10:09] <lesshaste> presumably not the kernel yet
[10:10] <_ruben> grub is
[10:10] <_ruben> bios -> grub -> linux
[10:11] <lesshaste> _ruben: ok... so my problem is that grub doesn't display on the screen after a poweroff
[10:11] <lesshaste> _ruben: so you can't see the menu
[10:11] <lesshaste> _ruben: it does display after a restart (shutdown -r now)
[10:11] <_ruben> sounds like a bios issue
[10:11] <lesshaste> _ruben: it is running in both cases I now realise
[10:13] <lesshaste> is there anything grub could do in theory to initialise whatever the BIOS has failed to?
[10:13] <lesshaste> actually.. is it worth trying grub2?
[10:16] <_ruben> well .. if grub doesnt show up at all, there's nothign grub can do .. unless grub breaks after getting started but prior to outputing anything
[10:17] <apw> lesshaste, the kernel is definatly not involved in the loading the kernel, all that is grub code
[10:17] <apw> i assume this behaviour is not affected by kexec being installed/not install.  ie. if you remove kexec nothing changes
[10:18] <apw> (it cannot be related of course as kexec only executed once the kernel is up)
[10:33]  * kdub is having a hard time finding a bug to be useful with :(
[10:35] <hyperair> could i persuade someone here to compile acpi-cpufreq as a module?
[10:36] <hyperair> as opposed to compiled into the kernel
[10:36] <hyperair> bug #355232
[10:36] <ubot3> Malone bug 355232 in linux "acpi-cpufreq/powernow-k8 should not be built-in into the kernel image" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/355232
[10:36] <smb> kdub, what feels like the main problem? Too unspecific data or unknown areas?
[10:44] <kdub> smb: unknown areas in working with all the tools, i suppose
[10:44] <lesshaste> apw: thanks...it's all a little mysterious to me
[10:45] <kdub> and managing the configurations, and ways to test
[10:45] <kdub> smb: it feels like the headache that always happens from going from theory to practice, if you know what i mean
[10:46] <apw> kdub ... heh don't be dissheartened, its a steep curve getting into the kernel for sure
[10:46] <smb> kdub, I guess so. Probably the way to go is pick one and ask for things on how to proceed here
[10:46] <apw> therre are few packages the same size ... ooffice, X server, little else
[10:47] <apw> smb, perhaps have a sneak look and see if there is something simple on there, a nice cherry-pick or something
[10:47] <smb> lesshaste, Mysteriously I think grub just uses the simple text mode that should be initialized by the BIOS. Do you get any visual feedback (like bios screen)?
[10:48] <lesshaste> smb: I can enter the bios setup by pressing esc or f1... but after a poweroff I just see the Toshiba logo and actually there is a slight change to the screeen when I assume grub is loaded
[10:48] <smb> apw, Maybe. I have not looked into the community section but probably a lot there are old ones without much feedback...
[10:48] <lesshaste> smb: little bits of the top of the lettering become blacked out :)
[10:48] <lesshaste> smb: did I misunderstand the question?
[10:49] <apw> lesshaste, normally there is a shift of font, to my eye the font gets 'shorter' vertically when the kernel loads the console fonts up
[10:50] <smb> lesshaste, No, that was what I meant. Is there any control in the BIOS about which gfx should get initialized. Not sure this is a dead lead, but on some laptops I could select at least whether lcp or crt should be primary. On some destops there was a selection about agp or pci sometimes...
[10:51] <apw> smb, sometimes they allow disabling the 'onboard' graphics so that if you stick in a second card it uses that ... perhaps thats got turned on when there is not one installed
[10:52] <lesshaste> the only "display" options I see are "power on display = auto-selected" which can be changed to LCD+Analog RGB
[10:53] <lesshaste> there is a mysterious "execute-disable bit capability" ?! :)
[10:53] <lesshaste> everything else is fairly clear
[10:54] <apw> lesshaste, that enabled NX support in the processor
[10:54] <apw> or more specifically prevents disabling of the NX support in the processor
[10:54] <apw> to allow buggy OSs to boot in the face of the new support
[10:54] <apw> NX allows us to mark the stack non-executable to prevent overflows being so useful
[10:55] <lesshaste> thanks
[10:55] <lesshaste> there is also an option for virtualisation technology I see :)
[10:56] <apw> yep same thing, turns off support for vmx extensions to prevent OSs which don't expect it from blue-screening, erm, i mean crashing :)
[10:56] <lesshaste> :)
[10:56] <lesshaste> bioses should really come with man pages
[10:56] <lesshaste> :)
[10:56] <apw> what make of machine is this?
[10:56] <lesshaste> toshiba tecra a9
[10:57] <apw> nnng.  what is toshiba up to
[10:57] <lesshaste> I was going to post to the grub mailing list
[10:57] <lesshaste> but I see they don't support anything before grub2 anymore
[10:59] <smb> lesshaste, One desperate thing to try might be to uncomment the default line in the grub menu.lst that does some colouring. Not that Toshiba did something nice as setting default colours to black on black...
[11:00] <smb> But I cannot remember anything in grub to enable a specific video mode... apw or cking do you?
[11:01] <apw> there is a terminal command i think, never seen it required tho
[11:01] <cking> do you need to change colours in grub 0.97?
[11:02] <smb> cking, It is unclear whether colours are enough. Just brought up that and there would be a default line in the standard grub menu
[11:03] <smb> The general symptom is that grub menu does not display after cold start but after reboot
[11:03] <lesshaste> smb: interesting!
[11:04] <lesshaste> I'm just checking if there is a bios upgrade too
[11:09] <smb> kdub, We will try to find one bug to start of tomorrow, if that i ok with you...
[12:05] <lesshaste> smb: well... it turns out it has been reported before https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub/+bug/374823
[12:05] <ubot3> Malone bug 374823 in grub "GRUB menu not showing up at cold boot" [Undecided,New]
[12:30] <cking> lesshaste: from what I can recall, grub does not twiddle with BIOS video modes at all, so this is part of the problem.
[12:30] <lesshaste> cking: yes I think the solution may be to try grub2
[12:30] <lesshaste> cking: as no one at grub will fix a legacy bug in any case
[12:31] <cking> unless there is a really compelling reason to put the effort into addressing this for legacy grub
[12:31] <lesshaste> cking: just another annoying bug :)  You can always just memorise the order of entries in menu.1st :)
[12:31] <lesshaste> or boot and then restart
[12:32] <cking> yeah, but that's unpleasant.
[12:32] <lesshaste> right
[12:32] <lesshaste> but I somehow suspect it won't come under "compelling" for the developers
[13:19] <Unggnu> hi all
[13:20] <Unggnu> Is it possible that the 2.6.30-10 initramfs script has changed? I always got the wrong keyboard layout with it while 2.6.30-9 works fine. The keyboard layout entry in console-setup seems to be the same in both initrds. Any idea?
[13:23] <Unggnu> I need the correct keyboard layout for dm-crypt
[13:32] <cjwatson> Unggnu: known bug, if you want to figure out what's going wrong feel free as I haven't had a chance yet. bug 392218
[13:32] <ubot3> Malone bug 392218 in console-setup "Console font not accepted after boot up" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392218
[13:32] <cjwatson> (the description is a bit too specific, don't worry about that ...)
[13:32] <cjwatson> lesshaste: I rather suspect grub2 *will* work better, as it initialises a graphical mode by default and therefore is bound to twiddle the video mode
[13:33] <Unggnu> cjwatson: thx
[13:37] <Unggnu> Btw. I got around 10 seconds boot time with the 2.6.30-8 in Karmic I guess
[13:37] <Unggnu> with fastboot
[13:37] <masterkernel> can someone tell me what the stable-review patches on kernel.org are
[13:37] <Unggnu> but after -9 I got around 14
[13:39] <masterkernel> and what is fastboot?
[13:39] <Unggnu> a boot option
[13:39] <Unggnu> Around 2 seconds faster in my case
[13:39] <masterkernel> can it be used in jaunty?
[13:39] <Unggnu> no
[13:39] <Unggnu> Since 2.6.29
[13:39] <masterkernel> even with a new kernel?
[13:39] <Unggnu> If it is >=2.6.29 yes
[13:40] <masterkernel> cool. i'll have to try that
[13:40] <Unggnu> Isn't much anyway. I just wondered why there is a difference of four seconds or around 40% between this two kernel releases
[13:41] <Unggnu> masterkernel: http://lwn.net/Articles/314808/
[13:44] <masterkernel> thanks Unggnu
[13:51] <_ruben> hrm .. just did a dist-upgrade (including kernel) on my jaunty system .. now it fails to boot because it cant find my lvm
 smb, do you know if it is safe to upload -lbm when the kernel's packages are not yet accepted?
 the only mention of fastboot is the BSDism, meaning do not check the disks on reboot
[14:01] <smb> apw, As far as I know it is save as it will depwait for the kernel
[14:01] <apw> ok cool then ... smb i have a karmic -lbm for upload ;)
[14:02] <smb> apw, I suspected that much. Will have a look
[14:02] <apw> in the normal place :)
[14:03]  * smb thinks that sound like conspiracy :)
[14:04] <apw> smb, ok the git tree is pushed too
[14:04] <apw> iit is also built in my ppa: https://edge.launchpad.net/~apw/+archive/daily/
[14:05] <apw> heh yeah, i am out to confuse you with all the changing about
[14:05] <smb> Well I can see in debdiff that is a little scary
[14:08]  * apw has a look
[14:09] <apw> smb, you got a link to the debdiff or doing that locally?
[14:10]  * apw feels he is missing a trick somewhere
[14:10] <smb> apw, I did it locally but slightly wrong. So it is probably not as scary as the diff between that and Jaunty ;-) Doing it right in a sec
[14:10] <apw> heheh
[14:13]  * apw does the same, the diff looks ok i think
[14:15] <smb> apw, Mostly yes. I am a bit confused by that strange change of compat-wireless master fom 2009-06-12 to 2009-06-10...
[14:15] <apw> that was an error in my previous version, a missunderstanding of how thye were named
[14:15] <apw> it should always have been -10
[14:15] <apw> i did it on the 12th but the tree i took was the 10th tree, and i miss recorded that
[14:17] <smb> apw, And your changeslog in the package might be different from the tree ?
[14:17] <apw> how so?
[14:18] <smb> I just pulled and in git 1-7 has two lines, while in the package diff it looks like 5
[14:20] <apw>   [ Andy Whitcroft ]
[14:20] <apw>   * Update compat-wireless to master-2009-06-19
[14:20] <apw>   * Bump ABI
[14:20] <apw>   * update compat-wireless to track changes to skb dst accessors
[14:20] <apw>   * update compat-wireless to track changes to ALIGN(foo, NETDEV_ALIGN)
[14:20] <apw>   * update compat-wireless to track removal of FIRMWARE_NAME_MAX
[14:23] <_ruben> hmm .. booting the -11 kernel does work .. must be something flakey with -13 or its initrd
[14:49] <lesshaste> smb, hi again
[14:49] <lesshaste> smb, I fixed the grub problem in the end
[14:50] <smb> lesshaste, So what did you change?
[14:50] <lesshaste> smb, I upgraded to grub2, in short
[14:50] <lesshaste> smb, which has completely different display routines it seems
[14:51] <lesshaste> smb, upgrading to grub 2 is not exactly user friendly at present, at least on jaunty
[14:51] <lesshaste> but with a little editing it worked
[14:52] <smb> lesshaste, Hm, guess that counts as a work-around. I wonder what the heck is then worng with the grub1-yourbios interaction...
[14:53] <lesshaste> smb, it's a good question.. did I show you the duplicate bug with the people talking about workarounds?
[14:57] <lesshaste> smb, I feel I fixed this bug more or less on my own.. I hope someone at ubuntu will at least read https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/389930 now!
[14:57] <cjwatson> smb: grub1 doesn't reinitialise the video mode itself *shrug*
[14:57] <ubot3> Malone bug 389930 in grub "grub menu does not display after cold boot" [Low,New]
[14:57] <lesshaste> cjwatson, the sudo apt-get install grub-pc command made a real mess of menu.lst
[14:57] <cjwatson> lesshaste: huh? several people have read it. It now sounds like updating to grub2 is sufficient, and since grub2 will be the default in karmic, it sounds as though there's effectively nothing to do
[14:57] <cjwatson> lesshaste: made a real mess how?
[14:58] <lesshaste> cjwatson, there is a point where it says it has used "kopt" to find a command line and asks you to check it
[14:58] <lesshaste> cjwatson, it presented a blank line
[14:58] <lesshaste> cjwatson, then when I just pushed on it added several lines with 80 or so copies of some ansi character that looks like an A
[14:58] <lesshaste> to menu.lst
[14:59] <cjwatson> nothing wrong with that
[14:59] <lesshaste> this apart from it still using root instead of uuid
[14:59] <cjwatson> it's a divider
[14:59] <cjwatson> the uuid thing was broken in jaunty but is fixed in karmic
[14:59] <lesshaste> cjwatson, well someone could close the bug I suppose :)
[14:59] <lesshaste> and the duplicate
[14:59] <_ruben> ouch .. i found out why my -13 kernel wouldnt boot .. i used tasksel to remove "virtual machine host" .. which removed lvm2 !!
[15:00] <lesshaste> _ruben, eek!
[15:00] <_ruben> reinstalled lvm2 .. it updated initrd .. et voila .. it boots
[15:01] <lesshaste> cjwatson, the blank line is correct? It's quite confusing for a poor unsuspecting user
[15:01] <cjwatson> lesshaste: looks like it means you have no special parameters beyond the defaults
[15:01] <lesshaste> cjwatson, sort of... it also added back in default parameters
[15:02] <lesshaste> cjwatson, I had removed quiet and splash
[15:02] <lesshaste> cjwatson, and it added them back it seems
[15:02] <cjwatson> feel free to file a bug. hardly qualifies as making a real mess though.
[15:02] <cjwatson> the only thing that seems like a real problem is the root/uuid stuff, which like I say is fixed in karmic.
[15:02] <lesshaste> ok
[15:03] <cjwatson> (real problem: by which I mean that otherwise it should still have booted fine)
[15:03] <lesshaste> cjwatson, no I thought the A characters were the mess. I didn't realise they would be harmless and was too scared to test it
[15:03] <cjwatson> they're a horizontal line when interpreted in the relevant character encoding
[15:03] <lesshaste> also, I see that it was expecting kopt= lines now
[15:03] <cjwatson> title           `echo ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── | iconv -f utf-8 -t cp437`
[15:04] <cjwatson> ... is where that divider comes from
[15:04] <lesshaste> as opposed to parameters after the kernel name
[15:04] <cjwatson> CP437 being one of the old DOS code pages
[15:04] <cjwatson> lesshaste: yes, that's how you were supposed to edit the grub1 menu.lst file
[15:04] <lesshaste> yes
[15:04] <lesshaste> well sort of.. :)
[15:04] <lesshaste> the default isn't like that
[15:04] <lesshaste> so you can't blame the user for copying the default
[15:05] <cjwatson> if you just edit the bit after the kernel name and not kopt=, then the next update-grub will overwrite your changes
[15:05] <lesshaste> right
[15:05] <cjwatson> I don't blame the user, I blame the incredibly dreadful old menu.lst format.
[15:05] <lesshaste> :)
[15:05] <cjwatson> but there's only a limited amount we can do about that
[15:05] <cjwatson> I'd rather focus effort on making the new world better
[15:06] <lesshaste> cjwatson, oh about your comment in the other channel, having just edited menu.lst by hand I was a little nervous it wouldn't boot at all :)
[15:07] <lesshaste> in any case, grub 2 works so all is great... I assume the docs will be tidied up by the time karmic comes out...
[15:07] <lesshaste> now onto the next bug :)
[15:08] <cjwatson> we probably ought to do something with defoptions= in menu.lst
[15:08] <lesshaste> cjwatson, more important would be to fix the upgrade script for jaunty
[15:08] <lesshaste> cjwatson, is it much more work than just copying the karmic fix?
[15:08] <cjwatson> I'm not interested in fixing the upgrade script for jaunty, really
[15:08] <cjwatson> it was a proof of concept so that we could get some degree of testing
[15:09] <lesshaste> would you mind if someone else fixed it?
[15:09] <cjwatson> we aren't really intending the majority of people to upgrade to grub2 in jaunty, just a few intrepid (ahem) souls
[15:09] <cjwatson> not especially
[15:09] <lesshaste> :)
[15:09] <cjwatson> but I'm not sure it would meet the stable update guidelines
[15:09] <cjwatson> karmic and beyond is what we're actually interested in for grub2
[15:10] <cjwatson> it's unlikely that you'll be able to do a really good job of jaunty without a much more sweeping update, which would definitely not meet the stable update guidelines
[15:10] <lesshaste> ok..maybe it should just be removed for jaunty
[15:10] <lesshaste> as it is broken
[15:10] <cjwatson> it's not broken
[15:10] <lesshaste> and added in some super flaky repository
[15:10] <cjwatson> it's just not as good as it could be
[15:10] <cjwatson> but that applies to lots of software
[15:10] <cjwatson> we can't remove packages once they land in a release anyway
[15:10] <lesshaste> well broken in the sense that a normal user might not be able to boot their computer after using it
[15:10] <cjwatson> we used the jaunty package for a systematic test on lots of hardware
[15:11] <cjwatson> the results were actually very good
[15:11] <cjwatson> so I'm not all that worried
[15:11] <lesshaste> ok.. I know when I am defeated :)
[15:11] <cjwatson> I'd be fine with us fixing the root/uuid thing in a jaunty update
[15:11] <cjwatson> that's fairly obvious and self-contained
[15:11] <cjwatson> but I don't think we should commit to really extensive work on jaunty's grub2
[15:11] <lesshaste> I think that's what I was saying!
[15:11] <lesshaste> what did you think I meant?
[15:12] <cjwatson> you could have been talking about any of the things you were commenting on in the grub2 upgrade, such as the kopt/defoptions thing
[15:12] <lesshaste> ah no
[15:12] <lesshaste> just the root/uuid thing
[15:12] <cjwatson> or the fact that jaunty's installer doesn't know that grub2 can boot of LVM
[15:12] <cjwatson> off
[15:12] <cjwatson> or any of the other things we know are broken in jaunty
[15:13] <lesshaste> well in any case, thanks for the help
[15:13] <lesshaste> and good luck with the grub work in general
[15:13] <cjwatson> there is actually a bug open on jaunty for the root/uuid thing
[15:13] <cjwatson> so if somebody wants to have at that, they should go right ahead :-)
[15:13] <lesshaste> :)
[15:13] <lesshaste> I have a lot more serious bugs to report now :)
[15:13] <cjwatson> bug 376879
[15:13] <ubot3> Malone bug 376879 in grub2 "grub2 installer modifies grub 0.97 menu.lst incorrectly and fails to chainload grub2" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/376879
[15:14] <lesshaste> like the one that stops my dvd player working at all
[15:15] <lesshaste> bye for now
[15:15] <lesshaste> and thanks again
[15:16] <cjwatson> apw: actually, ^- that's still assigned to you. fancy producing a diff against jaunty?
[15:17] <apw> cjwatson, will check it out thanks for the prod
[15:47] <manjo> smb, I want to update stuff under ubuntu tree in karmic.. what is the usual procedure ? can you point me to a wiki ?
[15:48] <smb> manjo, The current procedure would be ask apw
[15:49] <apw> heh ... manjo yep i saw that mentioned in our 'whats next' email
[15:49] <apw> let me get this damn package uploaded then we can talk about it
[15:49] <manjo> ok
[15:49] <apw> as i have started looking at ndiswrapper
[15:49] <manjo> yeah I am doing the same
[15:49] <manjo> probably we are duplicating effort
[15:49] <apw> manjo, i think i have it done already ndiswrapper
[15:49] <apw> am uploading a test kernel now
[15:50] <manjo> ah cool... so I can take that process and rinse repeat
[15:50] <apw> we obviously need to coordinate :)
[15:50] <manjo> ok will wait for you ping
[15:50] <apw> cool as
[15:52]  * manjo breaks for coffee
[16:25] <lesshaste> I am sorry this is probably a faq but can I install jaunty kernel on hardy?
[16:25] <lesshaste> my dvd drive doesn't work
[16:37] <lesshaste> apw: have you got a repository for newer kernels for hardy by any chance?
[16:38] <apw> lesshaste, jaunrty kernel will need other deps you don't have so ... unlikely to work
[16:38] <apw> intrepid might work
[16:38] <lesshaste> apw: I was looking at https://launchpad.net/~apw/+archive/ppa and thinking that might be you
[16:39] <apw> yeah that is me
[16:40] <apw> nothing new in there for hardy tho
[16:40] <lesshaste> ah
[16:40] <lesshaste> I am trying to work out why my dvd drive doesn't work
[16:40] <lesshaste> I thought testing a new kernel might help
[16:41] <lesshaste> I get lots of lovely errors :)
[16:42] <lesshaste> I assume trying to install a jaunty kernel and just letting it resolve dependencies is a bad plan
[16:43] <lesshaste> the problems look similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/223780 but I can show you dmesg if you like as it is full of juicy information and errors :)
[16:43] <ubot3> Malone bug 223780 in linux "hdc: status error: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error }" [High,Fix released]
[16:46] <lesshaste> rebooting...
[16:59] <lesshaste> this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/223780 is pretty fatal for me.. my system completely locks if i try to use brasero for example
[16:59] <ubot3> Malone bug 223780 in linux "hdc: status error: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error }" [High,Fix released]
[16:59] <lesshaste> hard locks I should say
[17:00] <lesshaste> is hardy too old for anyone to worry about?
[17:01] <lesshaste> upgrading to jaunty looks somewhat painful :(
[18:14] <apw> hardy is supported still.
[18:23] <smb> What worries me a little bit is "As a result cable detection
[18:23] <smb> becomes less reliable when compared with 2.6.24 but the affected drives are
[18:23] <smb> useable again."
[19:49] <Keybuk> hmm
[19:49] <Keybuk> Linux had another one of those "oh noes! no memory!" fits
[19:49] <Keybuk> when there was plenty
[20:09] <apw> Keybuk, did we use to record the dmidecode output somewhere, or did i imagine that
[20:10] <apw> Keybuk, running i386?  ZONE_NORMAL exhausted, or KVA ?
[20:13] <Keybuk> apw: I've seen it on i386 and amd64
[20:13] <Keybuk> not sure what the latter bit means
[20:13] <Keybuk> apw: the kernel exports dmi information under /sys
[20:13] <apw> kernel virtual address space
[20:13] <apw> Keybuk, in hardy?
[20:13] <Keybuk> jaunty and karmic
[20:14] <apw> yeah thats my memory too
[20:14] <apw> just thought i remembered something early boot slurping it up for something, hal perhaps to use
[20:14] <Keybuk> /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/
[20:14] <apw> on older releases