[00:10] <ibeardslee> anyone in Christchuch who may be able to help someone down there out? Son has installed Ubuntu for them and now is to busy to help with why the updates aren't happening.


[12:59] <wasabi> anybody want to leave commentary on bug #120051
[12:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120051 in adduser "does not canonicalize username before editing /etc/group" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120051
[01:22] <_MMA_> I posted to the -devel ML. Who do I tap to get it pushed through?
[01:27] <bdmurray> bryce: I think I found one of those I830 bugs
[01:29] <madmetal_spyros> is here the place to discuss about gutsy's bugs? (not asking for solution)
[01:29] <persia> madmetal_spyros: #ubuntu-bugs is the best place for that.
[01:30] <madmetal_spyros> oke :) although its gutsy's ;)
[01:30] <madmetal_spyros> thanks persia
[02:29] <deuce868> anyone on the laptop team might be able to give me a hand with a new T61?
[02:30] <ijuz__> unsharp X with gma x3100?
[02:30] <deuce868> no, I get funky resolution
[02:31] <deuce868> http://www.mitechie.com/uploads/images/t61/00002.jpg
[02:31] <ijuz__> damn, looks like i'm the only idiot with that specific problem
[02:31] <deuce868> the unsharp X was noted in thinkwiki
[02:31] <deuce868> had to recompile with a specific change
[02:31] <deuce868> I haven't gotten that far yet
[02:32] <deuce868> http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_7.04_%28Feisty_Fawn%29_on_a_ThinkPad_T61
[02:32] <ijuz__> deuce868: http://debian.christian-leber.de/d830/DSCF7379.JPG i have this too, when i connect an external screen, have you tried to set the screen res again with xrandr?
[02:33] <deuce868> no, I've only set the res in the xorg.conf
[02:33] <deuce868> I haven't tried out any xrandr stuff
[02:36] <deuce868> oh wow, ok...so ubuntu thinks my laptop display is the tv out
[02:36] <deuce868> no wonder I can't get above 30hz
[02:47] <deuce868> so how does this xrandr work? I see the modes
[02:47] <deuce868> and I see a * on the right one
[02:47] <deuce868> but when i try to set it to 1440x900 I get not a valid type
[02:48] <deuce868> "Size 1440x900 not found in available modes"
[02:50] <ijuz__> already the 2.0.0 driver?
[02:51] <ijuz__> deuce868: thank you very much, the thinkwiki link allows me to not get crazy on this sharpness issue, now i have beautiful KDE at 1920x1200 :)
[02:57] <ProN00b> uh, is there a gui/automatic way to regenerate /etc/fstab ?
[02:58] <deuce868> ijuz__: yea, it's 2.0.0 driver
[02:58] <deuce868> glad that trick worked out for you ijuz__
[02:58] <minghua> ProN00b: This is not a support channel.  Please try #ubuntu.
[02:58] <deuce868> hopefully we can get these machines running
[03:00] <ijuz__> deuce868: does X detect the lcd panel?
[03:00] <deuce868> just default monitor
[03:01] <deuce868> http://paste.avwsystems.com/paste/9
[03:01] <deuce868> that's my xrandr output
[03:02] <ijuz__> can't you switch the TV off?
[03:03] <deuce868> with xrandr?
[03:03] <ijuz__> xrandr --output=TV --off something like that
[03:03] <deuce868> or you mean a bios setting?
[03:03] <ijuz__> when you have xrandr 1.3
[03:03] <deuce868> bingo, you're my hero
[03:04] <deuce868> gnome menu's just went full screen
[03:04] <ijuz__> does beryl work for you? :)
[03:04] <deuce868> so now the question, should I submit a bug to gutsy or anything?
[03:04] <deuce868> I turned off the desktop effects
[03:05] <deuce868> one sec, I'll try to re-enable
[03:05] <ijuz__> my X hangs when i start beryl
[03:05] <ijuz__> (as in dead)
[03:10] <wasabi> so who should i petition to get the fade out animation removed for gksu?
[03:10] <wasabi> like, it's really obnoxious. And doubly so if you have compiz running.
[03:17] <bhale> wasabi: i blame seb
[03:17] <deuce868> ijuz__: no, I seem to be able to enable desktop effects ok
[03:17] <deuce868> I can't see how to disable the tv though
[03:17] <deuce868> I have to do it on each boot
[03:18] <ijuz__> i think you can set output in the xorg.conf
[03:18] <ijuz__> damn, here it dies (it's a Dell D830 and not a T61)
[03:19] <deuce868> that's ok, it's all nuts.
[03:19] <deuce868> can't set the brightness unplugged
[03:19] <deuce868> it even jumps around on its own lol
[03:25] <wasabi> it should be `if (compiz) doPrettyCompositeEnabledFade();`, and that's it.
[03:25] <wasabi> I tjust looks like utter crap otherwise. Every program redraws in some random order. Slowely.
[03:25] <wasabi> And the fade out is a giant window wiper moving from the top to the bottom three times.
[03:34] <deuce868> ijuz__: hey, how did you get the blur trick to work?
[03:34] <deuce868> I can't get the package to build
[03:35] <deuce868> dh command not found?
[03:39] <wasabi> so are ya'll being smashed with crash reports since introducing apport?
[03:39] <wasabi> like, i'm about to submit ... 9 various crash reports.
[03:40] <wasabi> n/m launchpad dead. ;)
[03:40] <deuce868> you find launchpad not letting you submit as well?
[03:42] <wasabi> yeah
[03:43] <wasabi> It's working now intermittently.
[03:48] <deuce868> '
[03:56] <Hobbsee> why are there *never* any members here of the CC when i want them?
[03:56] <Hobbsee> (and active)
[03:58] <persia> Hobbsee: Weekend?  Europe?
[03:58] <Hobbsee> true that
[03:58] <Hobbsee> was just hoping regardless
[07:02] <okaratas> hello
[07:05] <Burgundavia> hello okaratas
[07:05] <okaratas> Burgundavia, how are you ?
[07:05] <Burgundavia> not bad
[07:06] <okaratas> okey
[07:15] <okaratas> hmmm
[07:15] <okaratas> what is te bug?
[07:15] <okaratas> "Jun 30 08:15:31 ozgur kernel: [ 2011.209277]  SKB BUG: Invalid truesize (304) len=1440, sizeof(sk_buff)=176"
[07:16] <okaratas> what in interest SKB BUG?
[08:04] <mikmorg> hello
[08:08] <mikmorg> I'm trying to work a bit with Ubiquity, but am having a hard time understanding exactly where it is pulling from. Does ubiquity copy casper's live root to the harddrive? Does it create a new initrd, or copy casper's as well?
[08:10] <superm1> mikmorg, it doesn't copy the live root
[08:11] <superm1> it only copies the unmodified version
[08:11] <superm1> you can see whats copied in /rofs on a live disk
[08:11] <superm1> i believe it does however generate a new initrd
[08:11] <superm1> after everything is copied over
[08:11] <superm1> and casper is removed
[08:12] <mikmorg> superm1: perfect..
[08:12] <mikmorg> thanks
[08:13] <superm1> mikmorg, are you looking to modify it, or adapt existing towards a live disk your making?
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: actually, I'm not sure what I can and cannot discuss at the moment.
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: sorry.
[08:14] <superm1> mikmorg, pm?
[08:14] <superm1> or just can't period
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: pm is..?
[08:14] <superm1> private message
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: ah, no sorry.. not yet :(
[08:15] <superm1> well if this is for a derivative distro, I can work with you a bit on adapting ubiquity towards it.  i've been working on a fairly large patch for mythbuntu
[08:16] <mikmorg> superm1: Do you work at Canonical?
[08:16] <superm1> mikmorg, no
[08:16] <superm1> do you?
[08:16] <mikmorg> No, I'm working at Dell.
[08:16] <superm1> ah okay
[08:17] <superm1> that would make more sense as to not being sure what can and cant be discussed
[08:17] <mikmorg> superm1: Precisely :)
[08:18] <superm1> okay well feel free to ping me with any other questions, and likely you should join #ubuntu-installer.  the main installer guys, including the ones working for canonical are found there most of the time
[08:18] <mikmorg> superm1: Ah, they've been hiding from me in there all this time?
[08:18] <superm1> hehe
[08:18] <mikmorg> superm1: Thanks a lot - I didn't notice that room.
[08:19] <mikmorg> superm1: You wouldn't happen to know if the /cdrom/casper/initrd.gz is generated inside of the same casper image as what is on the CD, would you?
[08:19] <superm1> evand and cjwatson will be the two main guys to talk to in there
[08:19] <mikmorg> superm1: I've been discussing quite a few things with cj.
[08:21] <superm1> i dont know too much about how the official process for generating that file is (i haven't seen canonical's live cd build process).  For our mythbuntu disks, we have been using the same initrd.gz for /cdrom/casper/ as well as the one sitting in the root of the disk
[08:21] <superm1> best way to determine for sure if you can't catch one of those guys is just md5sum the two of them
[08:21] <superm1> and compare
[08:22] <mikmorg> superm1: Good point. I didn't notice that the one in the root of the disk ever gets called.. am I wrong about that?
[08:22] <mikmorg> Nevermind,
[08:23] <superm1> mikmorg, i can't think of any reason it would be called, other than since its a symlink to /boot
[08:23] <mikmorg> I don't see one at all
[08:23] <superm1> so when the system is copied over
[08:23] <superm1> oh.
[08:23] <superm1> :)
[08:23] <mikmorg> ah yes, in casper..
[08:33] <mikmorg> superm1: It seems that I'm lucky
[08:33] <superm1> mikmorg, why is that?
[08:33] <mikmorg> superm1: /cdrom/casper/initrd.gz is indeed generated by (or at least, can be) the casper FS on the CD
[08:33] <mikmorg> a diff -r returns clean
[08:34] <superm1> ah :)
[10:09] <Hobbsee> hiya LaserJock
[10:17] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[10:17] <Hobbsee> how's it goign?
[10:18] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock
[10:20] <LaserJock> it's, you know ... going
[10:20] <LaserJock> I'm hackin' on some Edubuntu stuff
[10:21] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:22] <LaserJock> it's always fun being the first to do things :/
[10:22] <ajmitch> it certainly is
[10:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What are you trying to do?
[10:22] <LaserJock> this 2nd CD we introduced in Feisty has caused all kinds of interesting things
[10:22] <Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu
[10:23] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[10:23] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: currently I'm playing around with the .iso build process to end up with a customized gnome-app-install window when you pop in the 2nd Cd
[10:24] <Fujitsu> Ah. Sounds fun.
[10:24] <LaserJock> luckily mvo, et. al did a good job when they wrote g-a-i :-)
[10:27] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i remember something similar to what Xandros does with their 2nd CD
[10:27] <jsgotangco> put the CD in, and a selection window pops out
[10:28] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: in Feisty, you get a window that lets you go to either synaptic (with the CD added to sources.list) or g-a-i showing just the contents of the CD
[10:31] <LaserJock> but most all the apps end up in Education with a lot of other empty menus
[10:40] <LaserJock> boy, I think gutsy almost ate a hard drive today
[10:40] <ajmitch> how?
[10:40] <LaserJock> I have an old computer at work that I have running gutsy, and I did my usual dist-upgrade
[10:41] <LaserJock> and I rebooted the other day and kinda forgot about it
[10:41] <LaserJock> but today I went to do something with it and noticed it was reeeealy slow
[10:41] <LaserJock> and I got all kinds of "not-so-nice" messages in console
[10:41] <LaserJock> bunches of udev stuff
[10:41] <ajmitch> heh
[10:41] <ajmitch> ah, ignore those :)
[10:42] <ajmitch> udev & devmapper?
[10:42] <LaserJock> so I googled around and found a launchpad bug
[10:42] <LaserJock> apparently it was driving my hard drive into the ground
[10:42] <ajmitch> yay
[10:42] <LaserJock> so I got rid of evms and it seems ok
[10:42] <LaserJock> but the drive is old and I got a few IO errors
[10:42] <LaserJock> so I made backups today :-)
[10:43] <jsgotangco> it must be the video
[10:43] <jsgotangco> :)
[10:43] <LaserJock> of course
[10:43] <LaserJock> darn those binary blobs ;-)
[10:44] <ajmitch> given that the last I saw before I killed X, was X taking 100% CPU time
[10:44] <ajmitch> after I killed X I lost network access
[10:44] <ajmitch> generally happens when the kernel goes into la-la-land
[10:44] <LaserJock> heh, that's why I use ancient video cards that only work with vesa :-)
[10:44] <ajmitch> I need my gaming fix
[10:45] <LaserJock> although I so want to try out the new "desktop effects by default"
[10:45] <ajmitch> though I originally went for an nvidia card because there was a spare dual-head card
[10:45] <ajmitch> and I really miss dual-head now :(
[10:46] <LaserJock> heh
[10:46] <LaserJock> I could do a dual-head setup, 17" CRT and air ;-)
[10:46] <ajmitch> hah
[10:47] <LaserJock> although there is actually a whiteboard right beside it
[10:47] <ajmitch> I was spoilt - now a 20" LCD feels small
[10:47] <LaserJock> I could draw a screen
[10:47] <LaserJock> and call that my bling monitor
[10:47] <ajmitch> ooh, cubes!
[10:47] <LaserJock> hmm, my 3D wet-erase art isn't the best
[10:48] <ajmitch> aha, found that box of blank DVDs
[10:48] <ajmitch> time to start with backups
[10:48] <ion_> I used to have two 17 CRTs, now i have a single 22 TFT. I prefer this one. Two 22s would be nice, but also expensive.
[10:48] <Mithrandir> problem is, my desk is getting too small
[10:49] <Mithrandir> goggles with a virtual 10k by 10k screen?
[10:50] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: then get a bigger desk.
[10:50] <Hobbsee> problem solved.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: that would entail getting a new apartment, since it's quite crowded in here already.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> and that's just too much hassle
[10:50] <persia> Umm..  That'd be really nice, but I was thinking something actually on the market (like 800x600 or 1024x768), the point being that they provide more pixels without using desk space.
[10:50] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: over a computer monitor, yes.
[10:52] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: monitors are *important*
[10:52] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hence 2x 17 inch ones should be sufficient.
[10:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: they are?
[10:53] <LaserJock> well, one is at least
[10:53] <Mithrandir> hmm
[10:54] <Mithrandir> I could just replace one of them with a 20" instead.  There might be room for that.
[10:54] <LaserJock> but the reason I haven't gotten a flat panel for my dekstop is I'm always just ssh'd into it anyway
[10:54] <persia> Mithrandir: You could get the rotating kind, and switch the aspect.
[10:56] <LaserJock> I wonder what would happen if I took a bunch of those 7" displays on the intel classmatepc and glued them to the wall
[10:57] <LaserJock> seems like that would be a bit of a disaster
[10:58] <Kmos> Fujitsu: that's for museum :)
[10:58] <Mithrandir> I saw HP had done something cool with projectors; by some nice use of software, you just pointed a bunch of projectors at a wall, told them to calibrate and then had a huge screen
[10:58] <Fujitsu> Kmos: Unfortunately it's all I have other than my laptop LCD.
[10:59] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Mmm... sounds expensive.
[10:59] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: projector bulbs are, yes.
[11:00] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: not when you can use cheap projectors.
[11:00] <Mithrandir> you get 800x600 projectors here for about 500
[11:01] <Fujitsu> Still rather expensive.
[11:01] <Hobbsee> then you have to manhandle the projector to work, too
[11:01] <Hobbsee> which is fine, assuming you know what you're doing
[11:05] <ion_> DIY projector, http://inventgeek.com/Projects/HomeTheater/overview.aspx :-)
[11:06] <StevenK> Hobbsee: The projector we have at $WORK came with a padded bag that neatly fits the projector and all cables.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> StevenK: that's not the problem
[11:07] <StevenK> I misunderstood "manhandle the projector to work" then. Okay.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> StevenK: if that were the problem, i would never have gotten called out of class countless times from other classes trying to make their projector work, because the students would often say "oh, go get sarah, she can fix this"
[11:08] <ajmitch> hah
[11:08] <Hobbsee> usually with a combination of power, and function+f8.
[11:08] <StevenK> Hah
[11:08] <ion_> Hehe
[11:08] <Hobbsee> and occasoinally having to cycle the projector so it was getting the right input.
[11:10] <Hobbsee> of course, it gets really interesting when you just walk into someone else's classroom, where the teacher has never met you before, and saying "here, i'll fix the projector" - or telling your own teacher "i'll be back in a minute"  "where are you going?" "fixing things"  "but where are you going?"
[11:10] <Hobbsee> mentally going: stop asking me these questions, you really dont need to know, and it's disrupting the class.
[11:20] <Kmos> http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/
[11:20] <Kmos> not working
[11:21] <ijuz_> deuce868: apt-get build-dep xserver-xorg-video-intel
[11:24] <Fujitsu> Kmos: It's due to the unannounced LP change last week.
[11:24] <Fujitsu> Kmos: I haven't seen carthik around lately.
[11:24] <Kmos> i'll mail him
[11:25] <pygi> pitti, you're supposed to eat her :)
[11:25] <pitti> nah, I'm a semi-vegetarian
[11:26] <Kmos> lol
[11:27] <ajmitch> pitti: you eat semi-vegetables?
[11:27] <pitti> ajmitch: yeah, only one half of an apple at a time
[11:29] <StevenK> pitti: Is libspandsp* in binary NEW still?
[11:30] <pitti> StevenK: no, nothing in new
[11:30] <pitti> StevenK: shall I update it for you again?
[11:31] <pitti> StevenK: next week I'll look into automating this, but it's not really trivial
[11:31] <StevenK> pitti: I haven't done anything, so I don't see the point.
[11:31] <StevenK> I did however, see spandsp FTBFS on amd64, so I'm chasing that, first.
[11:32] <StevenK> pitti: And jackass says, "That's what you think" ? :-P
[11:32] <pitti> StevenK: you mean drescher?
[11:33] <StevenK> people.u.c is jackass, or does jackass only host?
[11:33] <pitti> StevenK: ah, people is rookery
[11:33] <pitti> StevenK: jackass is the old archive.u.c., still used for security uploads and processing
[11:33] <StevenK> Ahh.
[11:38] <pygi> morning Zdra
[11:38] <Zdra> hello pygi
[11:39] <StevenK> Gah.
[11:40] <Fujitsu> StevenK: That sounds a little evil.
[11:41] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Files are installed into /usr/lib for every arch except amd64 where it's /usr/lib64.
[11:41] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[11:41] <Fujitsu> StevenK: /usr/lib64 is a symlink here.
[11:41] <LaserJock> does bzr get faster at pushing after the initial one?
[11:42] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It doesn't have to push the whole lot, so yes.
[11:42] <Fujitsu> Much, much quicker if it's a large tree like mplayer.
[11:43] <StevenK> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/libspandsp.so.0': No such file or directory
[11:44] <LaserJock> well, I just discovered my last branch on LP is 55 weeks old
[11:44] <LaserJock> which seems rather pathetic
[11:46] <pitti> StevenK: I cleaned up some cruft and updated the lists
[11:46] <StevenK> pitti: Great, thanks.
[11:46] <StevenK> I'm still twitching over curl*.
[11:48] <StevenK> Fujitsu: /usr/lib64 being a symlink has nothing to do with $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/lib64
[11:51] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Noted, but I failed to realise that is what you meant.
[12:16] <zer> Gutsy contains new default directories in $HOME: Documents, Music, Pictures, Videos. Will there be any plans to support a localized version?
[12:17] <persia> zer: Yes.  The default folders should have localised names at release time.
[12:18] <ion_> Capital letters in directory names for the lose.
[12:18] <zer> persia: ok, good news. Because i know that if i create a directory "Dokumente", no Bookmark gets created. But if i create "Documents", a new bookmark for this directory appears automatically.
[12:18] <ion_> ...as long as we use case-sensitive filesystems. :-)
[12:24] <zer> nautilus-sendto only contains Evolution in Gutsy, no Pidgin-support anymore?
[12:26] <minghua> persia: Are the xdg-user-dirs folders ubuntu specific?
[12:26] <persia> minghua: Not to my knowledge.
[12:27] <minghua> persia: Good, then most likely they are going to be translated in time.  Otherwise I have my doubts.
[12:28] <persia> minghua: A fair amount seems to be done upstream (see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-user-dirs).  None for JA though :(
[12:31] <minghua> persia: It's still a long way until string freeze, don't worry.
[12:31] <minghua> persia: BTW do you use a ja desktop?
[12:32] <persia> minghua: I usually use English, but sometimes ja or ru for testing l10n issues.
[12:32] <ajmitch> that's unnecessarily cruel & vicious
[12:33] <pygi> ajmitch, it's not
[12:33] <pygi> :)
[12:33] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: no it's not
[12:34] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: not if he's jumping at me and tickling my feet :P
[12:34] <pygi> Hobbsee, don't steal my words!
[12:34] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: and when did he do such things?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> [19:25]  * pitti jumps at Hobbsee and tickles her feet
[12:35] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: nothing wrong with that :)
[12:35] <persia> minghua: Is there enough translation?  ru is usually pretty solid, but ja still has lots of English scattered about.
[12:36] <minghua> persia: GNOME should be okay, which is what I use
[12:36] <Fujitsu> persia: How many languages do you speak?
[12:37] <persia> Fujitsu: Um.  Zero?  I can say at least a few words in many, handle taxis in restaurants for most majors, have once held conversations in five or six, and am no longer confident in my ability to be correct in any.
[12:40] <minghua> texis in restaurants?
[12:41] <Mithrandir> big restaurants; you have to take a taxi around in it.
[12:41] <mpt> What's Japanese for "What the hell is that taxi doing in my restaurant"
[12:41] <minghua> poor waiters
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Heh.
[12:41] <persia> minghua: Case in point :)  Should have been taxis and restaurants (but not for arabic or farsi, sadly).
[12:41] <Mithrandir> mpt: "idling" would be a good response.
[12:41] <ion_> The fi desktop is awful. The most annoying thing is that theyve translated MB to Mt, as if standard units were somehow translatable. Not only that, but t is already taken by tonne. :-)
[12:42] <pygi> ion_, didn't you said that already?
[12:42] <pygi> deja vu!
[12:42] <ion_> Yes, i did.
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Those are some damn heavy files.
[12:43] <mpt> I would like to see a grading of Ubuntu translation quality done by people fluent in each language
[12:43] <pygi> :)
[12:43] <minghua> I imagine qualification of the graders is going to be a problem :-)
[12:43] <mpt> because otherwise it's very difficult to tell how well Ubuntu's translation effort is goin
[12:43] <mpt> -g
[12:44] <mpt> Yeah, it's a bit of a catch-11
[12:44] <Fujitsu> Um, catch-22?
[12:44] <persia> mpt: I think that as interest in each country grows, the translations naturally get better.  pt is really strong, for example.
[12:44] <mpt> Fujitsu, no, not as bad as a catch-22, it goes only in one direction
[12:45] <persia> Fujitsu: No.  We're all mad - but nobody is trying to leave.
[12:45] <Mithrandir> you could just have a simple majority vote and do some analysis based on the mean and the median (and maybe the standard deviation).
[12:45] <mpt> Similar to the problem of grading Wikipedia articles
[12:45] <Fujitsu> mpt: Ah.
[12:45] <Mithrandir> it wouldn't be perfect, but it should give you a reasonable number, I would think.
[12:45] <mpt> or grading Free Software usability
[12:47] <ion_> Or the naming of free software. ;-)
[12:47] <ion_> Case in point: qtpfsgui
[12:47] <mpt> haha
[12:47] <mpt> or gimp
[12:47] <mpt> or iceweasel
[12:47] <Mithrandir> ion_: it's a qt program, doing stuff with PFS and it's a gui app.  I don't see what's weird with that.
[12:47] <persia> mpt: I like my graphical image manipulation program!
[12:48] <minghua> hmm, I think ubuntu's code names are worth mentioning as well
[12:48] <ajmitch> minghua: isn't the gutsy gibbon descriptive enough?
[12:48] <mpt> minghua, and the version numbers
[12:48] <Mithrandir> I'd rather have names be unique than descriptive.
[12:48] <persia> minghua: They get real version numbers at release.  It's not that different than other environments.
[12:49] <minghua> ajmitch: yeah, very descriptive, especially translated to Chinese
[12:49] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=intext:%22ubuntu%207.4%22
[12:49] <persia> minghua: Why do we need to translate internal code names, when development is done in a single language?
[12:49] <Mithrandir> names such as "evolution", "tasks" or "excel" are horrible names, they are all common words which makes searching for them hard and with the exception of tasks doesn't say what the app does at all.
[12:49] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=intext:%22ubuntu%206.1%22
[12:50] <minghua> persia: I have no idea, but I see those translations on Chinese forums, some of which makes me frown
[12:50] <mpt> Mithrandir, that's true too, but that Microsoft gives things crappy names is not an excuse for us to do so as well :-)
[12:50] <Mithrandir> mpt: two of my three examples were free software projects.
[12:51] <mpt> oh?
[12:51] <Mithrandir> mpt: you can try searching for it. :-P
[12:51] <mpt> har har
[12:51] <Mithrandir> http://pimlico-project.org/tasks.html
[12:52] <Mithrandir> (oh, and they have "contacts", "dates" and "sync" too.)
[12:52] <mpt> So compounds are an easy way of generating searchable names
[12:52] <mpt> Firefox, OneNote, OpenOffice, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Thunderbird
[12:53] <Mithrandir> half of which doesn't say what the application actually does.
[12:53] <persia> mpt: Yes, but how do you translate compounds into languages with no common phonetic representation?
[12:53] <mpt> Right, searchability is desirable but not sufficient
[12:53] <mpt> Photoshop and OneNote are vaguely reminiscent, the others of those are not
[12:54] <Mithrandir> firefox?  That's an animal.  OneNote?  Note-taking program?  Word processor?  Bibliography manager?  Dreamweaver?  Uh, program for controlling weaving machines?  Animation package?  Thunderbird?  Just a mythical animal.
[12:54] <mpt> exactly
[12:54] <minghua> persia: actually when it comes to animals, Chinese is far less concise than English
[12:55] <Mithrandir> openoffice.org isn't all bad, since people know what an office program is (even if the term is incorrect).
[12:56] <minghua> I don't know how often English speaking people use "gibbon" in daily conversations, but I think most Chinese just call them "monkeys"
[12:56] <mpt> persia, by "no common phonetic representation" do you mean no equivalent of hiragana/katakana?
[12:56] <minghua> we do have a term for zoologists, but I doubt everyone knows it
[12:57] <minghua> so firefox is a real animal?
[12:57] <persia> mpt: Or, more generally no phonetic alphabet (Roman, Hangul, kana, Arabic, etc. are all fine).  I've most frequently seen this issue with Chinese environments.
[12:59] <Fujitsu> minghua: I've not heard of it.
[12:59] <persia> mpt: Specifically, if it can be pronounced, but has no meaning, it's easy to substitute some characters to make a similar sound (and it's obviously a foreign word), if it is a compond, there may be a tendency to translate the meaning of the individual sections, rather than the sound, which can be confusing.
[12:59] <mpt> persia, dunno. How did Google China end up as Gu Ge?
[12:59] <minghua> persia: I don't quite understand your comment about Chinese and compounds
[12:59] <minghua> mpt: Alas, that was a interesting story
[12:59] <persia> mpt: Phonetic similarity to a nonsense word (obviously foreign).
[01:00] <minghua> Fujitsu: you haven't heard of "council greyskull" either, you don't count. :-P
[01:00] <mpt> Maybe the answer to translating things like that is "don't"
[01:00] <persia> minghua: My IME is not working today, but essentially the difference between (fi)(re)(fo)(ksi) and (fire)(fox).
[01:00] <mpt> Even though Ubuntu has a meaning, I wouldn't expect that to be translated
[01:00] <mpt> Same for other brand names
[01:01] <persia> mpt: Use Roman characters then?
[01:01] <minghua> persia: Oh I see.  That's fine, as we can do phonetic translations (as mpt just pointed out, google -> gu ge), but it's not as common as in Japanese
[01:01] <mpt> persia, I don't know.
[01:02] <persia> minghua: That's because you don't have kana :)  Anyway, I'm thinking about translator confusion, rather than anything else.
[01:02] <minghua> in the case of firefox, we translate literally as fire (huo) + fox(hu)
[01:03] <persia> minghua: Right.  That's an example of something that makes componds dangerous.  As pointed out before, DreamWeaver would be a good name for an automated loom control system.
[01:03] <minghua> yes, I agree, a lot of compounds translate to quite hilarious words in Chinese
[01:04] <persia> I like either mpt's idea of not translating, or documenting that translators should use phonetic equivalents when translating names.
[01:04] <mpt> and http://www.microsoft.com/japan/windows/products/windowsvista/default.mspx
[01:04] <minghua> take our google example, before they decide on a Chinese name themselves, it is affectionately called "ancient dog" due to phonetic similarity
[01:05] <minghua> google is not exactly compounds, but that's on top of my head
[01:05] <persia> mpt: Japanese is a poor example, as most Japanese are familiar with three phonetic systems.
[01:05] <mpt> So ideally their new name should have been a translation of "new tricks" :-P
[01:06] <persia> Mixing is very common, and not mixing is considered poor use of the language.
[01:06] <mpt> persia, you mean most of them know Romaji?
[01:06] <persia> mpt: Standard Education requires 10 years of English.
[01:07] <minghua> persia: why three?
[01:07] <mpt> ok, http://www.microsoft.com/china/windows/default.mspx
[01:07] <mpt> same thing
[01:08] <minghua> windows is a bad example, you just can't translate it, too confusing
[01:08] <persia> minghua: hiragana for native words, katakana for borrowed words or emphasis (often used like italics), and Romaji for style (often used for foreign words (not always correctly), proper names, or for even more emphasis).
[01:08] <minghua> office is another bad example
[01:08] <mpt> and http://www.apple.com.cn/macosx/leopard/index.html
[01:09] <mpt> There are leopards in China, right? :-)
[01:09] <persia> There's at least
[01:09] <minghua> persia: oh, I see.  I mistakenly thought "three pronunciation systems".
[01:10] <minghua> probably not
[01:10] <minghua> leopards are translated "American ", I think
[01:10] <minghua> let me check on wikipedia
[01:10] <mpt> minghua, is it *more* confusing in Chinese than it is in English?
[01:11] <persia> That's more Roman characters than I usually see on Chinese pages.
[01:11] <mpt> ("We run a Microsoft office" vs. "We run Microsoft Office")
[01:11] <minghua> mpt: I don't know, I use Chinese and English in too different occasions
[01:11] <persia> minghua: I think that's panther.
[01:12] <persia> mpt: Where is "We run a Microsoft office"?  Is that a machine translation?
[01:12] <minghua> persia: It seems either of us is right.  leopard is indeed the Asian one, jaguar is the American one.
[01:12] <minghua> neither*
[01:13] <persia> Hmmm.  I liked either better :)
[01:13] <mpt> persia, in English the phrase "Microsoft shop" is far more common to refer to an office or department that uses Microsoft software exclusively or nearly exclusively
[01:13] <mpt> even when they're not shops
[01:13] <persia> minghua: Still, it's " ", no?
[01:13] <mpt> and that *might* be because of the existence of Microsoft Office making "office" confusing, but there's no real way to tell now.
[01:13] <persia> mpt: That's just jargon.
[01:14] <minghua> persia: I suppose so, although I doubt there are many leopards left in China, as we don't talk much about it.
[01:14] <mpt> We should resolve this by using numbers for product names *as well as* for versions
[01:14] <persia> minghua: Probably not :)  Maybe in the far northwest (unless that's too dry for them).
[01:14] <minghua> persia: In Chinese culture tiger is the typical big, wild and carnival animal.
[01:15] <mpt> Ubuntu Gutsy shall henceforth be 7471108.7.10
[01:15] <minghua> "King of all beasts" and that.
[01:15] <persia> minghua: Amusingly, in English, the "King of all beasts" is the lion.
[01:16] <minghua> yeah I realize that.
[01:16] <minghua> most likely because there are tiger in China (or *were*).
[01:19] <mpt> There wer 125000 years ago
[01:19] <mpt> were
[01:19] <persia> mpt: Why 7471108?
[01:19] <mpt> chosen at random
[01:48] <leleobhz> someone can explain me how the restricted-modules package works?
[01:48] <leleobhz> because i want to update the fglrx but a simple uupdate will not work
[01:50] <sivang> hi folks
[01:51] <sivang> does someone know of a reliable way to compare two dirs and make sure they are identical? or is 'diff -r dir1 dir2' the way to go? (I copied a bunch of gigs from ext3 to xfs FS and size differ in about 4G so I want to make sure it's all there)
[01:54] <geser> sivang: do you only want to compare the file list or also the file contents?
[02:07] <Mithrandir> sivang: I'd use md5sum or sha1sum rather than just diff.
[02:09] <sivang> geser, Mithrandir : thanks guys, but it appears I found the culprit - permission problem that prevented true calculation of sizes
[02:09] <Mithrandir> you can still be eaten
[02:09] <Mithrandir> just not digested.
[02:10] <pygi> Hobbsee, but you already are eaten ... which kindof makes your theory false
[02:10] <Hobbsee> no i'm not
[02:10] <pygi> yup, you are
[02:11] <sivang> Mithrandir, geser : diff seemed to be enough for this purpose, as I did want to only compare file list and not contents
[02:12] <pygi> Hobbsee, ^^
[03:15] <evand> Wow, gnash leaks like a sieve.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> hiya evand
[03:16] <Hobbsee> evand: i tentatively triaged a few ubiquity bugs
[03:16] <evand> hello Hobbsee
[03:16] <evand> great!
[03:17] <Hobbsee> evand: basically dupes of the sudo/gksudo problem.
[03:18] <evand> good, perhaps the additional logs will give a clearer picture, though as cjwatson has suggested it's probably the interaction with gksudo
[03:19] <Hobbsee> evand: i dont use gnome normally, so dont know about gksudo itself.  but yeah.
[03:20] <Hobbsee> at least, that's what the cause of it seemed to be, to me.  *shrugs*.  it's not WM related - although the symptoms change dependant on the WM
[03:21] <evand> 'tis a very odd bug
[03:21] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[06:25] <RageMax> I'm seeing the busybox "can't access tty; job control turned off" error in both feisty and gutsy
[06:25] <RageMax> the machine works fine with knoppix
[06:26] <ijuz_> RageMax: when trying to boot the desktop cd?
[06:27] <RageMax> ijuz_: right, I see a lot of other people are having the problem as well
[06:27] <ijuz_> that is some new hardware?
[06:27] <RageMax> yeah, it's a newish gateway laptop
[06:27] <ijuz_> i thought gateway is dead... bu tok
[06:27] <RageMax> nah, their laptops are better than dell ;)
[06:28] <ijuz_> use the alternate cd
[06:28] <ijuz_> it will load the generic-ide module
[06:28] <RageMax> the laptop is SATA
[06:29] <ijuz_> well, no idea what it is in my laptop... but it worked there, you can in the meantime try modprobe generic-ide from the console you get when booting the desktop cd fails
[06:29] <ijuz_> cat /proc/kmsg will show you if it was found
[06:29] <ijuz_> no idea if there is someway to start the boot script again
[06:44] <RageMax> ijuz_: thanks, you pointed me in the right direction, I got it to boot
[06:44] <RageMax> need the generic.all_generic_ide option set to 1 upon boot
[06:45] <ijuz_> as boot parameter?
[06:46] <RageMax> yeah
[06:46] <RageMax> this has to be a huge frickin hack
[06:48] <ijuz_> no idea if there is already a bug report for this, basically the script should try to load ide-generic before giving up
[06:56] <RageMax> found another bug with the intel driver, but it looks like someone reported that already
[06:56] <RageMax> xdriver that is
[10:44] <Kmos> etank: bug 46135 , not fixed yet ?
[10:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 46135 in ubiquity "Failed to create file system (with 'erase entire disk')" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46135
[10:46] <etank> Kmos: i dont know
[10:46] <etank> i haven't seen that bug before
[10:51] <Kmos> etank: still from 2006
[10:56] <Chipzz> Kmos: that looks like a bug which has a reasonable explanation and work-around
[10:56] <Kmos> yeah, maybe
[10:56] <Chipzz> so: Kmos haven't created a patch for bug 46135 yet? ;P
[10:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 46135 in ubiquity "Failed to create file system (with 'erase entire disk')" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46135
[10:57] <Kmos> Chipzz: isn't attached
[10:57] <Chipzz> (subtile or less subtile way to point out that this isn't the best place to come complain about your favorite bugs ;) ;) )
[10:57] <Kmos> or someone reproduce it at new ubiquity version to see if it's fixed
[11:02] <Chipzz> (Kmos: or at least try to use a few more words; in hindsight your question could be interpreted as "is this bug aleady fixed or not?", but the way you put it sounded an awefull lot like "why hasn't this been fixed yet? hurry!" ;P)


[03:51] <RAOF> The xorg-server that's about to land in quantal-proposed should not be copied out of there until the rest of the stack has been uploaded and built.
[03:52] <RAOF> But no one would do that, anyway, because until that happens it'll be obvious that the archive won't be installable :)
[07:04] <tkamppeter> Yesterday I discussed the CUPS SRU with infinity because the SRU has 5 of 6 bugs verified and the reporter of the remaining bug does not answer. The conclusion is what I have written in comment #79 of bug 973270. Infinity wanted to pass cups to -updates. He did not do so (forgotten?). Can someone pass the CUPS SRU to -updates?
[07:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 973270 in cups "Printer does not provide REQUIRED job history." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973270
[08:29] <tkamppeter> seb128, are you in the release team?
[08:33] <seb128> tkamppeter, no, why?
[08:34] <tkamppeter> seb128, yesterday I have talked with infinity here about the CUPS SRU and he told me that he wanted to move it to -updates but he did not do so.
[08:34] <tkamppeter> Anyone of the release team around here?
[11:10] <tkamppeter> infinity, hi
[11:10] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, hi
[11:11] <cjwatson> I'm in a coffee shop today, can't do anything particularly complex
[11:11] <cjwatson> In any case *please* don't send me contentless pings :)
[11:30] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, yesterday I have talked with infinity here about the CUPS SRU and he told me that he wanted to move it to -updates but he did not do so.
[11:31] <tkamppeter> cjwatson, can you move it to -updates?
[11:32] <cjwatson> I'd rather leave that to infinity if he already has context - my net access here is very slow and it will be difficult to go through bugs.  infinity said "I'll look into it more", not "I'll do it".
[11:33] <cjwatson> So I don't want to jump into the middle of that if he just got interrupted thinking about it.
[12:43] <zul> can an archive admin please review python-django-compressor, python-django-appconf, and python-warlock it will make horizon installable again (and ill buy them a beer when I see them next)
[12:44] <zul> they have been sitting in binary-new for a while
[12:52] <cjwatson> zul: Why not licence debian/* under the same terms as the upstream source, which is recommended practice?
[12:53] <zul> cjwatson: oh i wasnt aware of that, i can fix that up though
[13:00] <cjwatson> python-django-compressor looks like it needs to mention the Apache 2.0 licence of rjsmin.py in debian/copyright to
[13:01] <cjwatson> o
[13:02] <cjwatson> zul: oh, and typo in debian/rules, "get-orig-soruce"
[13:02] <skaet> cjwatson,  would you mind reviewing http://paste.ubuntu.com/1120535/?
[13:02] <cjwatson> but that lot's minor, so accepting -django-compressor
[13:02] <zul> cjwatson: ill fix that up in the next upload
[13:02] <cjwatson> skaet: could I have a diff against the current crontab?
[13:03] <skaet> cjwatson,  sure,  doing
[13:04] <cjwatson> skaet: also, we should never be using ARCHES= in crontab
[13:04] <cjwatson> it's hard to maintain and etc/default-arches should be sufficient
[13:06] <skaet> cjwatson, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1121384/
[13:06] <cjwatson> zul: for python-warlock using the same licence as upstream is even more important because Apache-2.0 and GPL-2 are incompatible
[13:07] <zul> cjwatson:  do you want to reject it do i can update it?
[13:07] <cjwatson> zul: it barely scrapes through as distributable because debian/* is GPL-2+, and Apache-2.0 and GPL-3 are compatible - but still, better to keep it simple
[13:07] <cjwatson> so this isn't a reject, but a licence change in -0ubuntu2 would be good, IMO
[13:08] <zul> cjwatson: ack
[13:08] <cjwatson> skaet: sorry, I should have said - diff -u is basically always lots easier to read than plain diff
[13:09] <cjwatson> old-style diffs are there for compatibility but they're awful :)
[13:11] <skaet> cjwatson,  no worries,  here you go: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1121396/
[13:12] <cjwatson> skaet: as far as I can make out, the ARCHES= bits there are equivalent to http://paste.ubuntu.com/1121399/ in etc/default-arches
[13:12] <cjwatson> I think people have said that changing default-arches is a bit awkward because we can't easily see the state at release, but hey, it's in bzr
[13:13] <cjwatson> and then drop the ARCHES= throughout and it should be a more readable diff
[13:13] <cjwatson> "buildlive kubuntu dvd precise" needs to be "buildlive kubuntu-dvd dvd precise" so that it puts the right bits in the squashfs
[13:14] <skaet> cjwatson,   sorry,   didn't make the changes between the two version,  just did the diff -u,  I'll work on adding the ARCHES to the defaults,  just wanted to see if there was something else that needed fixing...  (which there appears to be ;) )
[13:15] <cjwatson> right.  I think the diff I pasted should be fine for that
[13:15] <cjwatson> I don't see any other problems :)
[13:15] <cjwatson> coo, xorriso supports mac/efi hybrids now
[13:16] <cjwatson> I wonder if I can get us onto that for quantal
[13:22] <skaet> cjwatson,  the changes to etc/default-arches matches expectations.    ARCHES pulled, kubuntu-dvd added.   http://paste.ubuntu.com/1121414/
[13:25] <cjwatson> skaet: great.  looks good to me now.
[13:25] <cjwatson> shall I just commit my default-arches changes directly since I have them here?
[13:26] <skaet> thanks cjwatson,   yes,  please commit your default-arches,  will save me recreating it.
[13:26] <skaet> I'll upload after you finish
[13:27] <cjwatson> skaet: done
[13:48] <skaet> cjwatson,  new  version committed and pushed,  now at 1475
[13:52] <cjwatson> skaet: cool, pulled.  do you know why the mythbuntu quantal daily build is commented out in the live crontab but not in bzr?
[13:52] <ogra_> just fyi, i just changed the boot code for omap/omap4 in debian-cd and run a server testbuild now
[13:53] <ogra_> ah, done already, that was faster than i thought, ignore the noise :)
[13:54] <skaet> cjwatson,  hmm,  oversite from A3.   They aren't participating the milestones,  but daily should be turned back on.   (not releasing with 12.10, but participating in 12.04.1)
[13:54] <cjwatson> OK, odd that live and bzr were ever allowed to get out of sync though, even so
[13:55] <cjwatson> maybe it would be simpler to arrange for mythbuntu dailies not to be posted to the tracker for quantal, so that we can leave the dailies enabled and not worry about them?
[13:57] <stgraber> I don't know the details but maybe they want the dailies to post to the daily milestone on the tracker, but not to any "real" milestone
[13:58] <cjwatson> mm, trickier because cdimage doesn't know the current milestone (it lets u-a-t worry about that)
[13:59] <cjwatson> ah well, not important for now
[14:14] <dpm> hi, is there anyone from the SRU team who can sponsor jbicha's ubuntu-docs upload to precise-proposed? We need this upload to be able to prepare the language packs for 12.04.1, and any help would be appreciated. Here's the associated bug
[14:14] <dpm> bug 1019441
[14:14] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1019441 in ubuntu-translations "Please update the ubuntu-docs Precise package with translations for 12.04.1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019441
[14:15] <stgraber> dpm: why do you need someone from the SRU team to sponsor an upload?
[14:16] <dpm> stgraber, I'm not familiar with the process, so if it's not the SRU team, then whoever who can sponsor the upload would do :)
[14:16] <stgraber> dpm: yeah, anyone with upload rights can do it. I'm taking a quick look now
[14:17] <dpm> excellent, thanks stgraber!
[14:26] <stgraber> dpm: failed to build locally but might be a problem with my environment, pushing to a PPA for test build, if that works I'll push to quantal + precise-proposed
[14:28] <dpm> stgraber, thanks. Would you mind keeping me up to date on how it goes? Once ubuntu-docs is in precise-proposed, I'd like to start building the language packs tomorrow, so that they can be ready by the 2nd.
[14:29] <stgraber> dpm: well, you'll need an SRU team member to approve it to -proposed before that, the queue for that is almost 30 packages long last I checked, so might need some direct poking to get it processed before the others
[14:31] <dpm> ok, gotcha
[14:57] <tkamppeter> infinity, hi
[15:07] <jdstrand> fyi, I'm dealing with the kde component mismatches
[15:40] <babyface_> jamespage, hi James
[15:44] <babyface_> jamespage, for bug:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1028453,  it failed the test job in jenkins many days, when will it be fixed?
[15:44] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed]
[16:15] <infinity> tkamppeter: Relax, man. ;)
[16:50] <babyface_> anybody know why there are no builds for  quantal desktop ?
[16:50] <stgraber> let me check
[16:51] <babyface_> stgraber,  ok thanks.
[16:52] <stgraber> cron job is there, so it might be that it failed, checking the logs
[16:53] <infinity> livefs builds went fine.
[16:53] <stgraber> yeah, livefs looks good but debian-cd never ran
[16:54] <stgraber> at least, I don't see a daily-live log for 20120731
[16:55] <infinity> well, Colin and Oli were both fiddling with debian-cd yesterday.
[16:55] <infinity> Or today, or whatever.
[16:55] <stgraber> ok, I'll try to re-run just the debian-cd part of the build, see what happens...
[16:56] <stgraber> running
[16:57] <babyface_> thanks guys.  normally， how long will it take to finish the build ？
[16:58] <stgraber> should just be a few minutes as I'm not rebuilding the livefs, just the .iso
[16:58] <babyface_> stgraber, ack. thanks.
[17:00] <infinity> stgraber: The complete lack of logfile at all is a bit weird.
[17:01] <infinity> stgraber: And the reason is because buildlive is still running. :P
[17:01] <infinity> 21663 ?        S      0:00 ssh -n -o StrictHostKeyChecking no -o BatchMode yes<EMAIL_ADDRESS>/home/buildd/bin/BuildLiveCD -l -A powerpc -d quantal lubuntu
[17:01] <stgraber> that's lubuntu
[17:01] <infinity> Oh, so it is.
[17:01] <infinity> Mentally filtered the 'l'
[17:01] <stgraber> hehe :)
[17:02] <infinity> But... No logfile seems nearly impossible to manage, with the set of files that have been edited recently.
[17:02] <infinity> Maybe I'm missing an interim edit where someone briefly broke the world at just the wrong time.
[17:02]  * infinity shrugs.
[17:03] <stgraber> the only logical explenation would be a messed up crontab at the time the build started, anything else should have sent a failure e-mail (either debian-cd or cron)
[17:04] <stgraber> hmm, though MAILTO isn't set in the crontab, so I'm not exactly sure who would be notified of a failure (that's not handled by one of the other e-mail)
[17:08] <infinity> It would be in ubuntu-archive's spool.
[17:08] <infinity> Err, in cdimage's.
[17:09] <stgraber> which appears to be empty... odd
[17:09] <infinity> It's not empty.
[17:09] <infinity> But it certainly has no failure mails after the livefs build.
[17:10] <stgraber> oh, is "mail" lying to me (or it's just me not remembering how that stuff works ;))
[17:10] <infinity> Oh, wait.
[17:10] <infinity> I didn't scroll far enough up. :P
[17:10] <infinity> lockfile: Sorry, giving up on "/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/etc/.lock-build-image-set-ubuntu-daily-live"
[17:10] <infinity> Another image set is already building!
[17:11] <skaet> ?
[17:11] <infinity> So, stale lock from someone fiddling, I assume.
[17:11] <infinity> Mystery solved.
[17:11] <stgraber> oh, fun, apparently "mail -u cdimage" isn't the same as "mail"... go figure
[17:12] <infinity> I just read the spool raw with 'less'.
[17:12] <stgraber> that works too ;)
[17:12] <jbicha> hi, could an AA handle bug 1031416 for me?
[17:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1031416 in ubuntu "Please remove mess from the blacklist & sync mess 0.146-2 (multiverse) from Debian non-free" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031416
[17:15] <stgraber> babyface_: built
[17:20] <babyface_> stgraber, got it. thanks.
[17:21] <infinity> jbicha: Will do.
[17:21] <jbicha> infinity: thank you
[17:30] <skaet> stgraber, infinity - have synched the crontab up with the version in cdimage/etc/crontab that contains the precise daily builds now.
[17:32] <infinity> Hrm?
[17:32] <infinity> precise daily builds were already running.
[17:32] <infinity> Or, so my mail told me.
[17:32] <skaet> infinity,  not for all the images on the manifest for 12.04.1
[17:33] <skaet> and some of the archs that were showing up on the precise dailies  weren't needed either, and just consuming arm/powerpc cycles for no reason.
[17:34] <skaet> cjwatson made some changes to the default-arches file earlier as well, as part of this.
[17:34]  * infinity sees that.
[17:35] <skaet> so,  it should all nicely match the 12.04.1 manifest now.
[19:49]  * stgraber prepares for the easiest MIR ever, zram-config
[19:52] <stgraber> infinity: hmm, did you notice all the install failure bugs against zram-config?
[19:56] <infinity> stgraber: Erm.  I don't even understand how it's possible that people upgrading from oneiric are upgrading zram-config, when it didn't exist previously...
[20:02] <infinity> stgraber: Probably doesn't help that some of them are mix-and-matching it with some random PPA package.
[20:02] <ogra_> why does it suddenly show up on main images and needs a MIR ?
[20:02] <infinity> ogra_: It's not being pulled in by anything...
[20:02] <infinity> stgraber: Why is it being MIRed?
[20:03] <stgraber> ogra_,infinity: I want to depend on it from ltsp-client
[20:03] <ogra_> right, the only image actually using it is ac100
[20:03] <ogra_> stgraber, ah !
[20:03] <stgraber> ogra_: we discussed it at the LTSP session at UDS, we killed the compcache code a while back but never replaced that by the zram equivalent
[20:04] <infinity> stgraber: Well, I have a mail from the "random PPA zram package" guy about trying to consolidate them.
[20:04] <infinity> stgraber: But I think both should go away, and we should fix the zram bits in initramfs-tools (which I didn't know existed when I did zram-config)
[20:04] <stgraber> that'd work too
[20:04] <ogra_> oh, i remember
[20:05] <stgraber> at least until we try to get rid of the initramfs ;)
[20:05] <stgraber> (which isn't likely to ever happen for LTSP considering how much stuff we do in the initramfs ;))
[20:05] <infinity> Well, I could pull it out of initramfs and turn it into a hybrid hook.
[20:06] <infinity> (ie: something that runs from either initramfs or the base system, but not both)
[20:06] <infinity> I dunno.  I haven't put much thought into it, since it "just works" for me.
[20:07] <infinity> The problems for people with conflicting packages are obvious, but some of the bug reports don't seem to fall into that category, so a bit of investigation here might be worthwhile.
[20:08] <stgraber> yeah, it also "just works" here and I'm pretty sure it'll also just work for LTSP without causing extra bug reports as it's a pretty well controlled environment (auto generated chroot that people usually don't mess with)
[20:08] <infinity> Does ltsp rely on tmpfses in any meaningful way?
[20:08] <stgraber> yeah
[20:09] <infinity> I might have hit a curious kernel bug here where swapping a tmpfs to zram causes explosions.
[20:09] <stgraber> as in, we don't have persistent storage and use tmpfs for everything ;)
[20:09] <infinity> I need to figure out a solid reproducer so I can debug and lay blame.
[20:09] <infinity> But if what I suspect is happening is happening, that could be a bit of a blocker for you.
[20:10] <stgraber> yeah, I can see some people finding this annoying ;)
[20:11] <stgraber> so far I've been mostly using zram on my swap-less systems which tend to have a lot of RAM and not using much tmpfs, thin clients are kind of the opposite of that, so booting a 64MB thin client might be interesting ;)
[20:11] <infinity> Yeah.  I have a ton of RAM, but I eat it all for tmpfs builds.
[20:12] <infinity> And I can't be positive without a controlled test case, but I *think* my oopses and panics are hitting at around the point where the tmpfs would be swapping.
[20:12] <infinity> Which would be when the kernel then tries to free some RAM for zram, so it can swap the tmpfs.
[20:12] <infinity> Whch all should work, in theory, but...
[20:12] <infinity> So many moving parts.
[20:14] <infinity> Maybe I can boot with MEM=$something_small and try to get a solid reproducer.
[20:14] <infinity> But that sounds like something I don't want to do today. :P
[20:16] <jbicha> aw, android-tools looked kinda useful
[20:17] <infinity> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zram-config/+bug/956859 is weird too.
[20:17] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 956859 in zram-config "zram-config terminates with status 2. zram swaps not enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:18] <infinity> Waitaminute.
[20:18] <infinity> stgraber: I wonder if some/many of the upgrade bugs are due to people loading the zram module manually, perhaps in something like /etc/modules.
[20:18] <infinity> stgraber: Would explain the "using defaults" sort of message in the above bug.
[20:21] <stgraber> yeah, so I guess you may want to check for zram being already loaded in pre-start and "echo 'something vaguely useful' && stop" if that's the case
[20:21] <stgraber> should be better than failing
[20:21] <infinity> Hrm.
[20:21] <infinity> Also could be people without /usr mounted?
[20:21] <infinity> (I use free(1) in the init job, which is in /usr/bin)
[20:21] <infinity> But... Runlevel [2345] should guarantee /usr, surely.
[20:23] <infinity> Meh.  Anyhow, I should look at the PPA package, consolidate any good ideas he has, and add a Conflict to the package, at least.
[20:34] <ScottK> Publisher broken?
[20:34] <ScottK> Installation-guide has been pending for an hour.
[20:35] <ScottK> There it is.
[20:35] <infinity> ScottK: It's running.  Could have just been a slow run.
[20:35] <ScottK> Asking must have been the fix.
[20:35] <ScottK> OK.
[20:36] <ScottK> Very slow.
[20:36] <ScottK> Thanks for checking.
[20:37]  * ScottK was waiting for that because he's wanting to figure out how much of the K* stuff coming back into Main is real.
[20:37] <slangasek> I'm very puzzled by https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/installation-guide/20100518ubuntu6
[20:37] <slangasek> published in precise in April; published in quantal 2 minutes ago?
[20:37] <slangasek> infinity: yes, runlevel [2345] guarantees /usr; and quantal forward, "out of the initramfs" will also guarantee it
[20:38] <ScottK> It got demoted and repromoted
[20:38] <slangasek> ah, ok
[20:38] <ScottK> No idea why that happened, but C-M got very noisy and some of it seems related.
[20:39] <micahg> I think jdstrand was trying to demote that
[20:39] <jdstrand> I mentioned earlier I was working on that
[20:39] <jdstrand> I had to bail because of poxml in kdesdk. I filed a bug on it
[20:40] <ScottK> What bug?
[20:40] <micahg> jdstrand: why should installation-guide make a difference, it has no reverse dependencies
[20:41] <ScottK> micahg: Isn't it used in D-I?
[20:41] <micahg> oh, is it?
[20:41] <jdstrand> micahg: it is seeded in platform.quantal/supported-installer-common
[20:41] <micahg> hrm, /me kicks seeded-in-ubuntu
[20:41] <ScottK> Even better, fix it.
[20:42] <jdstrand> I didn't notice that myself and thought I was ok, then saw the report and put everything back until bug #1031478 can be fixed
[20:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1031478 in installation-guide "Drop Build-Depends on poxml" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031478
[20:43] <micahg> ScottK: I fear the issue is server side
[20:43] <jdstrand> not to worry, I will put it all back
[20:44] <ScottK> micahg: Face your fear and step into it.
[20:44] <ScottK> jdstrand: Thanks.  I'll ignore C-M for awhile then.
[20:44] <jdstrand> I thought about just removing the seed entry, but then thought about the network-less installs
[20:44] <micahg> ScottK: I'd rather have someone else fix it now rather than waiting on me for a month
[20:45] <micahg> tumbleweed: ^^ can you have a look at seeded-in-ubuntu not showing stuff in supported-installer-common?
[20:47] <tumbleweed> sure. That sounds like something I just need to tell it to look at
[20:47] <micahg> jdstrand: alternatively, if poxml doesn't have interdependencies on the rest of kdesdk, it could be packaged separately (might be acceptable to Debian as well)
[20:48] <ScottK> micahg: It's part of KDE.
[20:48] <ScottK> It won't be acceptable to split the source in Debian, I can guarantee you.
[20:48] <micahg> ScottK: right, but it's a tool usable outside of KDE as well
[20:49] <ScottK> micahg: Yes.  So is everything that's not part of the libs/workspace.
[20:49] <micahg> ah, the binary is already usable without the bulk of stuff, so it's just a main/universe issue which needs to go away, nevermind :)
[20:50] <ScottK> It's a separate binary package, so from a Debian perspective there's zero incentive to split the source and it's a maintenance burden.
[20:50] <ScottK> Yeah.
[21:12] <ScottK> slangasek: So are you the partner repo dude now or just the guy that didn't duck fast enough when Skype needed doing?
[21:14] <slangasek> ScottK: I'm "the partner repo dude", and I'm also still trying to find a patsy for skype ;)
[21:14] <skaet> ogra_,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1122227/  <-- this address the concern you raised last month?
[21:16] <skaet> slangasek, infinity,  also in that diff is updating the make-web-indices to indicate that mythbuntu and ubuntustudio were approved for LTS.
[21:18] <slangasek> skaet: the latter makes sense to me.  the former I'll let ogra_ speak on
[21:18] <skaet> slangasek,  thanks.
[21:21] <ogra_> skaet, yeah, looks fine to me
[21:21] <skaet> thanks ogra_.
[21:22] <ogra_> your dev machine is actually called ubuntu ? :)
[21:22] <tumbleweed> micahg: to make it appear, it looks like we need to parse a lot more of germinate-output. It's currently only looking at the supported seed's file. Not its dependency tree (I'm not at all familiar with germinate)
[21:23] <micahg> tumbleweed: hrm, no idea here
[21:24] <skaet> ogra_  just doing this on one of my test machines, since it was handy. :)
[21:25] <ogra_> heh
[21:28]  * ogra_ is finally done soldering our magic USB cables to autoboot the pandas
[21:28] <ogra_> phew


[13:01] <AERecords> hey all
[13:02] <AERecords> By any chance is anyone any good at custom EPG creation?
[15:29] <troldrik> my remote doesn't work on natty, and 10.10 I believe. MCE remote + receiver, it works on windows, so it's the lirc setup.
[15:30] <troldrik> chose mce in debconf dialog, irw doesn't show ANY received input at all.
[15:38] <troldrik> hmmm have to kill this new fangled in kernel ir subsystem.
[18:20] <ali1234> i rebooted my mythtv backend today, and now i get access denied on the mysql database
[18:22] <ali1234> hmm never mind i was looking at the wrong end of the log
[21:58] <ed_money> trying to install mythbuntu on an older desktop, from CD. I keep getting '(initramfs) Unable to find a medium containing a live file system' errors. What more info do I need to provide to diagnose a solution?


[01:04] <holstein> cheezhead: what are you trying to do?
[01:05] <holstein> !grub
[01:05] <holstein> ^^ thats what i would follow to recover grub
[01:16] <jbermudes> Has anyone used jack as input sources for avconv?
[01:18] <holstein> i have used analog cables between machines when ive needed to get things done
[02:48] <cheezhead> back. holstein, i'm running TestDisk v6.13 built in GParted LIVE DVD. 77% done...
[02:52] <cheezhead> on this pc, downloading both ubuntustudio-10.04-alternate-i386.iso -AND- ubuntustudio-10.04-alternate-amd64.iso to burn DVD-R's as backups.
[04:15] <UnWorldly> is hexter the only option out there for FM synthesis?
[10:42] <ChristianSacks> Hi Just installing Ubuntustudio 12.10 within an Oracle VirtualBox, evryhting is running smoothly yet the interface seems really slow!!! What settings should I use to make it operate at normal speed? Im running on an i5 processor, i've set 1024mb ram and only 1 processor. any ideas???
[10:43] <ChristianSacks> I appreciate that perhaps this should be focussed to an Oracle forum?? But maybe someone here can help???
[10:50] <zequence> ChristianSacks_: Make sure there's enough memory for graphics too
[10:50] <zequence> Otherwise, using VB for audio is not recommended, as the performance of course is not going to be great
[10:54] <ChristianSacks_> I've given the graphics 128mb I think... will check now
[10:54] <ChristianSacks_> thanks btw
[10:55] <ChristianSacks_> Ah, oops, only 64mb... that'll not be helping right?
[10:56] <zequence> 64MB is still pretty ok, but I don't know how much Ubuntu Studio actually requires to run its desktop
[10:59] <ChristianSacks_> ok, I will wait till the install has finished and push the gfx up to 128mb and see if it helps... if not, what else should I look for??
[13:31] <ChristianSacks_> hi zequence, I pushed the gfx memory up to 128mb but it's still pretty slow... must be something to do with Oracle VB?? Or is there something else I could try?
[13:54] <Synapse_> hello :-)
[13:56] <Synapse_> i have a question according the desktop of ubuntu studio... i want the top bar to be like on the unity desktop, i found globalmenu but it isn't designed for the latest version of ubuntu studio. can someone help?
[14:04] <cfhowlett> Synapse_, you can add a DE to ubuntustudio but it probably won't be as integrated as XFCE's is.  Just iinstall and see what you get.
[14:07] <Synapse_> i already installed the unity DE but it's not as i like to have it... i just need the globalmenu in the panel... thats all...
[14:09] <cfhowlett> Synapse_, you may not be able to get just the flavor you want.  and USTudio obviously does NOT run unity well.  Sorry, no more precise answer than that from me...
[14:09] <Synapse_> okey thank you anyway :-) i try to find something :-)
[16:09] <holstein> UnWorldly: i would look at xsynth, whysynth ...ask in #opensourcemusicians ...http://wootangent.net/category/linux/ from my friend [lsd] ... search the repos for "synth"... search google for "linux synth"
[16:09] <holstein> there are plenty of synths, just not really any commercial entity making sure you know about them, or how to install/use them
[21:15] <Otie64> Does anybody know why my ubuntu stduio installation is not finishing?
[21:16] <Otie64> It's been stuck at "Saving installed packages..." for a while now.
[22:49] <tadeu> firewire
[22:50] <tadeu> realmente funciona firewire?


[07:01] <ara> good morning all :)
[07:17] <ara> Alternate images are up!
[07:17]  * ara syncs
[07:47]  * ara takes ubuntu alt i386 full disk
[08:32] <ara> broken packages now in lucid. alpha 1 needs a respin
[08:50] <ara> morning davmor2
[08:50] <davmor2> morning ara thought you were going to miss the fun of non installing iso's
[08:51] <ara> davmor2, I already started! non-installable metacity package :-) isos respining now
[08:53] <davmor2> ara: one up on yesterday that ubiquity crashed and n-m didn't work
[08:54]  * ara steps out to grab a coffee
[11:42]  * soren cheers as autotest is finally imported into bzr on Launchpad.
[11:42] <soren> 13 hours that took!
[11:42] <soren> Glad I didn't sit around waiting for it.
[11:42] <ara> \o/
[12:27] <Yos> I just did the upgrade to lucid (again) and now I have 2 listings of almost everything listed in System-->Preferences
[12:29] <ara> Yos, what do you mean?
[12:30] <Yos> I have double listings
[12:31] <Yos> 2 about me; 2 appearance...etc
[12:32] <Yos> weird
[12:33] <Yos> Somethings are listed twice and some only once
[12:37] <ara> I am stepping out now for lunch. I would look into it afterwards
[12:37]  * ara -> lunch
[13:13]  * nperry downloads server iso to do some tests on :)
[13:40] <cr3> davmor2: hey dude, thanks for the heads up about the dns records, trying it out right now
[13:42] <fader_> davmor2: Though the subject line made me think you wanted to sell me herbal v1agr4 ;)
[13:44] <cr3> fader_: totally, I only caught his message microseconds before purging my deleted messages
[13:49] <cr3> soren: I'm pointing at my hand now and I still have no clue what that means
[13:50] <cr3> soren: on a more serious note, you might like to heed davmor2's warning too: since you've been working on automating the server install, you might like to know that there's apparently a new prompt for downloading iana records
[13:57] <Yos> I just did the upgrade to lucid (again) and now I have 2 listings of almost everything listed in System-->Preferences
[13:57] <Yos> Somethings are listed twice and some only once
[14:01] <ara> Yos, does restarting the session help?
[14:02] <davmor2> cr3, fader_: np
[14:02] <Yos> I will try a re-boot
[14:03] <davmor2> cr3, fader_: Actually the heading was deliberate I thought you'd read it :D
[14:03] <fader_> davmor2: I actually have a filter that takes anything from you and marks it as spam anyway.  Not sure how this one slipped through. :P
[14:03] <cr3> davmor2: you need something like: enlarge your manhood/rocket/cracker/etc.
[14:04] <moustafa> davmor2, cr3, fader_ : Hon hon!
[14:04] <davmor2> cr3, fader_: Problem then is the spam filters eat it :)
[14:04] <davmor2> moustafa: morning
[14:05] <fader_> moustafa: Hey dude
[14:05] <davmor2> cr3: I'm not sure if the same thing will happen on the live cd as I haven't had a live install work to date yet
[14:05] <cr3> davmor2: I'll try it later, for good measure, but the alternate is chugging along quite nicely so far
[14:06] <soren> cr3: Yeah, no worries. Thanks.
[14:06] <moustafa> are you testing stuff without me?
[14:07] <davmor2> moustafa: not his fault you weren't quick enough ;)
[14:07] <moustafa> davmor2: I blame the timezone advantage
[14:08] <Yos> That was strange but a restart cured it
[14:13] <davmor2> ara: xubuntu alt fails unmet deps
[14:13] <ara> davmor2, nice :-\
[14:13] <ara> davmor2, I will try ubuntu alt i386
[14:25] <moustafa> I can't seem to subscribe to the tests :(
[14:30] <ara> moustafa, why, what happens?
[14:32] <moustafa> ara: No check boxes to subscribe.  I hope it's not a big deal
[14:39] <moustafa> Sorry, had to force reboot.
[14:40] <davmor2> moustafa: are you logged in?
[14:40] <moustafa> davmor2: Yes I am
[14:40] <davmor2> if you are, are you on the right page?
[14:40] <moustafa> Or, at least, I was
[14:41] <davmor2> moustafa: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3450 is an example of the page you need to be on to assign a test to yourself
[14:41] <moustafa> Or, I thought I was...yes I'm confusing myself now
[14:42] <davmor2> moustafa: now make your mind up either you were or you weren't ;)
[14:44] <fader_> moustafa: I've got your back... don't listen to davmor2 -- he's a meanie.
[14:45]  * davmor2 grabs sharpening stone and axe and wonders if he can hit fader_ from here
[14:45]  * fader_ wonders idly about ICBAs.
[14:46] <moustafa> fader_: He can't be a meanie, he's british!  *ducks impending rocks*
[14:46] <moustafa> Ok, I don't think I'm part of QA
[14:47] <davmor2> moustafa: I think you'll find I was born in England making me English not british :P
[14:47] <fader_> moustafa: I haven't forgiven davmor2 for burning the White House down in 1814
[14:48] <davmor2> fader_: Don't worry the indians haven't forgiven you and they are closer than me :P
[14:48] <moustafa> fader_ : I thought you haven't forgiven him for being part of the country that brought us the Spice Girls and Simon Cowbell or whatever his name is
[14:48]  * fader_ laughs.
[14:48] <fader_> davmor2: I think moustafa beat both of us in that round.
[14:49] <davmor2> moustafa: this from the country that brought us Micheal Buble
[14:50] <moustafa> davmor2: It could be a "touché, sir", but while I do live in Canada, I wasn't born here.
[14:51] <davmor2> moustafa: hmmm where were you born then?
[14:52]  * fader_ is guessing "the moon"
[14:52] <moustafa> davmor2: Lebanon.  So, fader_ wasn't that far off.  :P
[14:52]  * davmor2 is guessing at egypt region
[14:55] <davmor2> moustafa: do me a favour then please point at cr3 and say Buble it's all your fault ;)
[14:56] <moustafa> davmor2: Done :D
[14:56] <moustafa> davmor2: Incidentally, I has suddenly become my last day at the office.    It's hilarious to blame the older countries
[15:00] <cr3> davmor2: alternate installed just fine with my original preseed
[15:01] <nperry> Humm server testing is fun :)
[15:01] <davmor2> cr3: does dns work though?
[15:02] <davmor2> ara: how's ubuntu alt behaving?
[15:02] <cr3> davmor2: ya man, hosts resolve just fine
[15:03] <cr3> davmor2: if you mean a server install configured with bind, then I don't know
[15:03] <fader_> nperry: :)
[15:03] <davmor2> cr3: I'll take a snapshot of it when the request comes up
[15:17] <ara> davmor2, I haven't had the time to start, I was in a call. I will do it now
[15:36] <moustafa> Does "fails to restart at the end of the install" count as a bug?
[15:36] <fader_> moustafa: I would say that a failure to restart at the end of the install is definitely a bug, but probably not a critical one
[15:37] <fader_> File it, add it to the ISO tracker, but if that's the only bug you see I wouldn't mark it as a failure
[15:37] <moustafa> fader_ : I would have been surprised if it was critical
[15:37] <davmor2> moustafa: on what?
[15:37] <moustafa> I guess "ubuntu-bug ubiquity" would be what's needed?
[15:37] <moustafa> LiveCD, Free Software Only install
[15:39] <fader_> moustafa: I assume you were asked if you wanted to restart now and said yes?
[15:39] <moustafa> Yes
[15:39] <fader_> Yeah, my guess would be ubiquity
[15:40] <fader_> If that's not right cjwatson will move it to the right place
[15:40] <moustafa> "Package ubiquity does not exist".  Reasonable, since it's removed at the end of the install
[15:41] <moustafa> I'll file the bug manually, then.  No big deal
[15:42] <fader_> moustafa: What you can try is to file the bug and then use 'apport-collect' to add the logfiles, etc. to it
[15:42] <moustafa> that should work
[16:01] <moustafa> Sonova...I just reported the bug, but it didn't stick :S
[16:02] <moustafa> I guess Launchpad is being clogged hard today
[16:07] <ulysses__> hello testers
[16:07] <davmor2> ulysses__: Hello
[16:07] <moustafa> hello ulyssess_
[16:08] <moustafa> *Hello ulysses__
[16:09] <moustafa> Launchpad bug: 494563  I can't add any of the requested files because they are empty :(
[16:11] <davmor2> moustafa: try opening one of the files
[16:16] <ulysses__> I think sudo is not neccessary when using cat
[16:18] <moustafa> ulysses__: I think it is if you want to read files that are locked
[16:18] <moustafa> ulysses__ I can confirm it
[16:20] <moustafa> davmor2: Thanks for reminding me of cat :)
[16:20] <davmor2> moustafa: it's got me outta some binds
[16:21] <moustafa> There we go, that should do it
[16:21] <davmor2> ulysses__: you do need sudo or lp would be able to access the files :)
[16:21] <fader_> davmor2, moustafa: Bah.  cat is too easy.
[16:21] <fader_> http://media.tkk.fi/en/xmas-party-2009/unix-shell-challenge.html
[16:22] <fader_> Real men hack a way to do it with 'man' :)
[16:23] <davmor2> fader_: are you trying to say that real men do it with man if so that sounds so gay ;)
[16:25] <moustafa> davmor2 has a point
[16:25] <fader_> Nothing wrong with that ;)
[16:25] <davmor2> cr3: it's me, it's not dns it's snmp
[16:29] <davmor2> notice reads " Various snmp software needs extracted MIBs from RFCs and IANA - which cannot be shipped - to be working as expected.  These MIBs can be automatically fetched and extracted as part of installing this package.
[16:29] <davmor2> This will take serveral minutes to complete, even with a fast internet connection.
[16:29] <davmor2> Download and extract MIBs from RFCs and IANA?
[16:29] <davmor2> cr3, fader_: ^
[16:29] <fader_> davmor2: Thanks
[16:30]  * moustafa wonders who keeps drinking the Dr Pepper without putting some back in the fridge
[16:30] <moustafa> What?  I'm trying to keep this off-topic
[16:31] <davmor2> moustafa: it's you
[16:32] <moustafa> davmor2:  This isn't a soap opera where it turns out that I'm my evil twin brother, is it?
[16:32] <davmor2> no that would be moustafa3
[16:33] <moustafa> but...moustafa3 is...ME! *cue dramatic music with some camera zoom*
[16:34] <davmor2> moustafa: you'll never get this evil bit right if you don't end in muhahahahaha!
[16:35] <moustafa> davmor2: I was doing the horrified revelation scene
[16:35] <moustafa> davmor2: So you wouldn't suspect a thing! MUAHAHAHAHAHA
[16:35] <moustafa> !
[16:36] <ulysses__> Ok, test environment ready
[16:36] <davmor2> moustafa: See told you, it was you drink the dr. pepper and not replacing it :P
[16:37] <moustafa> davmor2: But...it can't be! *bites knuckles*
[16:37]  * moustafa hopes there's no one called knuckles in here
[16:38] <ulysses__> Hm, update-notifier-kde says 'Upgrading to Kubuntu 9.10'
[16:38]  * davmor2 begs god to let there be ;)
[16:38] <davmor2> ulysses__: did you do it right?
[16:39] <ulysses__> davmor2: yes, 'update-notifier-kde -d -c'
[16:41] <fagan> meeting in 20?
[16:41] <fader_> fagan: I believe so, yes
[16:41] <davmor2> fagan: 19
[16:41] <fagan> :)
[16:46] <davmor2> ulysses__: try update-notifier-kde -u
[16:47] <ulysses__> the upgrade is running
[16:49] <ulysses__> http://noob.hu/2009/12/09/desk2.png
[16:50] <ulysses__> downloading the package was only 7-8 minutes, now the upgrade is about 40 minutes:P
[16:55] <davmor2> moustafa: you got an ubuntu lucid desktop in front of you?
[16:57] <moustafa> Had one.  Doing another install with manual partitioning in a VM
[16:59] <davmor2> moustafa: it's okay had word back from pitti
[16:59] <moustafa> ptti?
[17:00] <fagan> moustafa: martin pitt
[17:00] <moustafa> fagan: Ah, I haven't had the pleasure
[17:00] <fagan> Hes awesome
[17:01] <fader_> QA team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now -- everyone is welcome to come listen and/or contribute!
[17:01] <moustafa> fagan: I'll have to go by your word at the moment.  :)
[17:01] <fagan> :)
[17:20] <ulysses__> Ok, I upgraded my VM, and no I don't have panel, plasmoids, nothing, the screen resolution is only 800x600 instead of 1366x768
[17:20] <ulysses__> I use Virtualbox, with Guest Additions
[17:21] <ulysses__> I can't choose older kernel, I don't see the GRUB
[17:22] <moustafa> GRUB2 is displayed by holding the shift button at bootup
[17:28] <ulysses__> Ok, I could enter into GRUB, now I choosed kernel 2.6.31
[17:29] <ulysses__> Same thing, guest additions doesn't work after upgrade
[17:31] <ulysses__> I think I should test the upgrade without Guest Additions
[17:32] <davmor2> ulysses__: Guest Additions will of been removed as part of the upgrade you will need to add it again iirc
[17:36] <sbeattie> davmor2: really? I wouldn't have guessed that, but it's worth verifying.
[17:38] <davmor2> sbeattie: just a guess but I know it removes repos that aren't ubuntu's main 4 to help solve upgrade issues
[17:39] <ulysses__> Now, I reinstalled guest additions, no reboot the VM
[17:39] <sbeattie> davmor2: sure, but virtualbox-ose-guest-{utils,x11} are in universe
[17:40] <Grantbow> nothing but main?  wow
[17:41] <sbeattie> Grantbow: ?
[17:41] <davmor2> Grantbow: no main 4
[17:41] <davmor2> as in main restricted universe and multiverse
[17:41] <Grantbow> oh, ok
[17:42] <davmor2> sbeattie: yes but it is installed into the guest it's not used from the guests repo is it?
[17:44] <sbeattie> davmor2: I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but yes, you install those packages through the guest's repos; alternatively, you can use the virtualbox interface to do the fake cdrom thing, but choosing the packages will likely have better results.
[17:49] <moustafa> I thought the guest add-ons were available via synaptic
[17:49] <moustafa> from within the machine, that is
[17:50] <sbeattie> ulysses__: perhaps that's the question we should be asking you; how did you install the guest utilities before upgrading?
[17:50] <ulysses__> I mounted the Guest Additions cd image with, and run the installer from konsole
[17:51] <moustafa> ulysses__: It's still probable they were removed afterwards
[17:52] <moustafa> Try and find them in KPackageKit, or synaptic
[17:52] <moustafa> Just a lookup for virtualbox should do
[17:53] <ulysses__> I use the closed-source edition of Virtualbox
[17:55] <moustafa> Ah
[17:55] <ulysses__> No problem, I repeat the test without guest additions
[18:19] <davmor2> sbeattie: that is the method I have used in the past using the additions cd image.  That is the method where by it gets removed.
[18:19] <sbeattie> ah.
[18:22] <davmor2> sbeattie: haven't used vb for a while though and that was the recommended way at the time :)
[18:34] <moustafa> davmor2: Good thing the repositories make the process a lot easier then
[18:35] <davmor2> moustafa: I don't know I use kvm and virt-manager
[18:35] <moustafa> haven't used those, don't know if they can do what I want them to do
[18:36] <sbeattie> davmor2: I found kvm to be significantly slower than virtualbox on my particular hardware...
[18:37] <davmor2> sbeattie: it's fine for what I need which tends to be checking that stuff does work
[18:37] <davmor2> I mostly test on hw though
[19:01] <nagappan> any clues, why I get this on Ubuntu 9.10
[19:01] <nagappan> --2009-12-09 10:34:15--  http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_<IP_ADDRESS>.orig.tar.gz
[19:01] <nagappan> Resolving archive.canonical.com... <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:01] <nagappan> Connecting to archive.canonical.com|<IP_ADDRESS>|:80... failed: Connection timed out.
[19:01] <nagappan> Retrying.
[19:17] <nperry> INTERWEB BROKEN
[19:17] <nperry> nagappan: it works for me, on lucid
[19:18] <nagappan> nperry, ah ! ok
[19:18] <nagappan> nperry, now retry 14 is going on
[19:18] <nagappan> nperry, except this package all other packages are getting installed
[19:19] <nagappan> nperry, ah ! through FF it works !
[19:19] <nperry> How odd :s
[19:19] <nagappan> nperry, guess its not getting the proxy info correctly ?
[19:20] <nperry> Im never a fan of proxies :)
[19:20] <nagappan> nperry, in my org (VMware) we don't have any other option
[19:20] <nagappan> nperry, we have to access outside world, only through proxy
[19:20] <nperry> I feel for you
[19:20] <davmor2> nagappan: I just tried it works fine from here on real hw
[19:21] <nagappan> davmor2, cool, I think it should be proxy issue, synaptic doesn't pickup the proxy info when trying to fetch a file outside of .deb repo
[19:25] <nagappan> nperry, davmor2, it works fine with "dselect install" from command line
[19:29] <ara> does sound work fine for you on real hw?
[19:31] <ara> in kvm ubuntu opening sound is something like prrrr, brrrr, prrrr
[19:33] <ulysses__> I upgraded a Kubuntu Karmic in Virtualbox to Lucid, but the upgrade failed. After login I got a text screen with lots of error messages. Should I attach  a screenshot about the VM to a bug report? What should I report?
[19:36] <ara> ulysses__, the logs at /var/log/dist-upgrade are the most useful
[19:36] <ara> ulysses__, do you get a console?
[19:37] <ulysses__> no, only a screen full with error messages. I didn't try recovery mode yet
[19:38] <ara> ulysses__, but you say "after login"
[19:39] <ulysses__> yes. I type my password, press the Enter, and then it change to a black screen, full with messages
[19:39] <ulysses__> screenshot: http://noob.hu/2009/12/09/upgarde.png
[19:41] <ara> ulysses__, I got that too on kvm, it recovers, though, after a couple of minutes
[19:41] <ulysses__> hm, if I am right, the upgrade was not completed, I choosed recovery console and fix broken packages
[19:44] <ulysses__> it looks good, the X started after fixing broken packages
[19:44] <ulysses__> nice:)
[19:45] <ara> ulysses__, the udevd warnings are irrelevant to the fail of upgrade
[19:45] <ara> ulysses__, the warnings are known as bug 491775
[19:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 491775 in brltty "udevd warnings in /lib/udev/rules.d/85-brltty.rules" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491775
[19:45] <ara> ulysses__, now that you recovered, it would be nice to have a look under your /var/log/dist-upgrade to check any upgrade errors
[19:48] <davmor2> ulysses__: it may of been that the archive is still being worked on for kubuntu
[19:50] <ulysses__> many message in apt-log "package .... broken, depends on..."
[19:54]  * moustafa has a croissant
[19:55] <fader_> It's true, he does have a croissant
[19:55] <fader_> He's very popular.
[19:56] <cr3> fader_: it's really true, he does have a croissant
[19:57] <moustafa> fader_ : It's tasty too
[19:58] <fader_> moustafa: If it crashes before the last bite, you should be able to run 'ubuntu-bug pastry --type=croissant'
[19:58] <moustafa> Great, I just realized baguette would make for a great easter egg in a video game
[19:58] <moustafa> I didn't know ubuntu-bug extended to pastries
[19:59] <moustafa> fader_ : it's pretty handy
[20:00]  * moustafa wonders if ubuntu-bug can be any handy-er
[20:00] <fader_> moustafa: The real problem is getting USB drivers from the bakery so you can plug a keyboard into the bread
[20:01] <moustafa> fader_ : Can't we just use ndswrapper?
[20:01] <davmor2> fader_: any of the certified stuff got an ati gfx card in it?
[20:02] <fader_> moustafa: That will get you etherloaf but not keybread
[20:02] <fader_> davmor2: Hmm, possibly.  Looking for desktop?
[20:02] <davmor2> fader_: yes jockey fail confirmation
[20:03] <fader_> davmor2: Give me a couple of minutes to look.  Also, I thought ATI open-sourced their driver?
[20:04] <davmor2> fader_: there are 2 they open-sourced what they could but still have the fglrx binary
[20:04] <davmor2> fader_: I think the 2d works wicked though
[20:07] <fader_> davmor2: Will a laptop do or does it need to be a desktop specifically?
[20:08] <davmor2> fader_: that'll do
[20:08] <fader_> If a laptop will do I have one lined up for you that moustafa has physical access to
[20:08]  * fader_ whistles innocently and acts nonchalant about passing off work to someone else.
[20:09] <davmor2> fader_: yeah laptop is fine it's only to double check if jockey is working with ati fglrx
[20:09] <fader_> davmor2: What needs to happen?
[20:10] <davmor2> do an install wait for jockey to say there are drivers available and try and install them :)
[20:10] <fader_> davmor2: Okay.  Got a "Mobility Radeon HD 4300 Series" card in one ready to try.
[20:11] <fader_> moustafa: I'll set up an install of system<PHONE_NUMBER> in the lab; can you go stab the power button in a moment and get it started?
[20:11] <fader_> davmor2: Actually, it has yesterday's image already installed if that will do
[20:11] <fader_> If not I'll reimage it
[20:12] <moustafa> fader_ : Should I do it now?
[20:12] <davmor2> might do
[20:12] <davmor2> fader_: ^
[20:12] <fader_> moustafa: Hang on, let's try it as it is now
[20:12] <fader_> moustafa: Can you go log into that system and run jockey?  System - Administration - Hardware Drivers
[20:14] <moustafa> fader_ I have to reboot it, it froze after I took it out of the screensaver
[20:15] <charlie-tca> Okay, I screwed the tracker up before I downloaded the new images. Xubuntu alternate 64 worked
[20:15] <fader_> moustafa: Weird... I'm still logged into it
[20:15] <fader_> moustafa: let me reboot it from here
[20:15] <moustafa> all right
[20:15]  * davmor2 ponders if this is the malware screensaver
[20:15] <fader_> moustafa: Er, wait, I lied
[20:15] <fader_> my connection hung
[20:15] <moustafa> Ah, Ha!
[20:15] <fader_> I should have noticed that the hostname changed on my prompt :)
[20:16] <fader_> You'll have to engage manual override
[20:17] <moustafa> fader_ It's rebooting
[20:17] <fader_> moustafa: Thanks.
[20:17] <moustafa> be back in 2 minutes
[20:17] <fader_> davmor2: So what would indicate that we need to reinstall this system and test again?  If jockey works perfectly or if it breaks horribly?
[20:17] <fader_> I assume you're seeing breakage?
[20:18] <davmor2> yeah bug 494699
[20:18] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 494699 in jockey "Ati binary driver failed to install using jockey" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494699
[20:19] <charlie-tca> davmor2: how thorough is the testing for alpha1?
[20:20] <davmor2> charlie-tca: nail as much as you can :)
[20:20] <charlie-tca> will do. Been trying for two days just to get an install
[20:21] <charlie-tca> Everything after that is a plus!
[20:22] <davmor2> try and stagger it so all the ground is covered
[20:22] <davmor2> yeah everything has been a bit broken
[20:27] <davmor2> fader_, moustafa: any joy?
[20:28] <moustafa> back, I guess I need for the install to finish before trying jockey again
[20:28] <moustafa> davmor2: I had to manually reboot the machine, so it went into the network install
[20:30] <davmor2> :(
[20:31] <sal_> new to testing.  have an extra partition set off of an existing install.  would like to get lucid in there ..
[20:31] <sal_> would like to boot from usb if possible
[20:31] <ulysses__> any kubuntu tester here, or I am alone?:)
[20:32] <sal_> any suggestions welcome - i've read through the wiki pages already ..
[20:32] <moustafa> sal_ : it is possible, just the USB Startup Disk Creator
[20:32] <davmor2> ulysses__: no I move on to kubuntu
[20:33] <sal_> got the usb creator.  should i go ahead and use the cuurent .iso?
[20:33] <davmor2> sal_: yeap
[20:34] <sal_> can i do all the rsync on the usb?  or once i get the install, is the update mgr work from there?
[20:34] <sal_> any advice on setting up good partitions?
[20:36] <moustafa> sal_: Not sure if you can rsync the usb, as for good partitions, I usually split it in 3 to keep it simple
[20:36] <moustafa> sal_ : One for root of 4-8 Gb, one for Swap (up to 2Gb) and the rest for Home
[20:37] <davmor2> sal_: once installed you can just use update manager to keep the image up-to-date.  If you have free space on the drive just tell ubuntu to use the free space and leave it at that
[20:38] <moustafa> sal_ : The three partitions is for a hard drive.  Keep the USB drive at one partition, unless you plan on never inserting it into a Windows machine
[20:40] <sal_> thanks folks ..
[20:43] <sal_> the drive i am working on has swap existing, about 8gb running linuxmint now, the other 100-ish gb holding an old ubuntu install, maybe 6.10.
[20:44] <sal_> it is this last partition (all ext3) i would like to wipe clean for lucid.  do not have a separate /home partition ..
[20:46] <davmor2> sbeattie: is there an easy way to get the dl-ubuntu-test-iso.py
[20:46] <moustafa> davmor2, fader_: jockey-gtk fails to start
[20:46] <davmor2> yay that's worse than I got :)
[20:47] <moustafa> Even the text mode fails
[20:47] <sbeattie> davmor2: it very recently got renamed (dropping the .py) but can be downloaded from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol/ubuntu-qa-tools/master/annotate/head%3A/dl-ubuntu-test-iso/dl-ubuntu-test-iso
[20:48] <davmor2> ulysses__: ^
[20:49] <davmor2> sbeattie: is that what all the moved bits were in the last bzr pull
[20:49] <ulysses__> got it
[20:49] <sbeattie> davmor2: yep
[20:50] <sbeattie> davmor2: the old shell script went away, and the horrible python version finally got promoted to take its place.
[20:50] <davmor2> ulysses__: like I say it will zsync everything which means the first run will be slowish but after that it'll only grab the difference between isos
[21:02] <moustafa> fader_ : I found an interesting bug on<PHONE_NUMBER>
[21:02] <moustafa> fader_ : The F1-F12 keys are interpreted as their fn functions, rather than the usual F1-F12
[21:13] <moustafa> fader_ : Any idea as to why the laptops in the lab don't have internet access?
[21:14] <fader_> moustafa: Yes :)
[21:14] <fader_> moustafa: Because they're behind a firewall that is configured to not allow them internet access
[21:14] <moustafa> fader_ Ah, so how would I go about to giving them access to launchpad?
[21:14] <fader_> moustafa: They can get updates from the archive but that's about it
[21:15] <fader_> moustafa: It'd be a long involved process, unfortunately.  It's on my list of things to research, but I wouldn't count on it happening in the next week. :/
[21:15] <moustafa> Gotcha
[21:16] <fader_> moustafa: Re the F1-12 keys, I'm honestly not sure if that's a bug or a feature... it might be hardware-dependent
[21:16] <fader_> Though I am pretty sure there's a bug already filed about it if you poke around
[21:16] <moustafa> fader_ I'm searching for anything similar, and I'm pretty sure it's a bug
[21:17] <davmor2> moustafa: for now you can grab the crash file from /var/crash drop it onto a usb stick and then run ubuntu-bug /media/path/to/usbstick to fire off the report
[21:17] <ulysses__> davmor2: what should I do, if I want to download only the i386 ISOs?
[21:18] <fader_> davmor2: Does that work correctly?  I thought you had to run ubuntu-bug on the system where the crash occurred for it to be valuable
[21:18] <fader_> Even with a crash file I mean
[21:18] <davmor2> sorry should read ubuntu-bug /media/path/to/usbstick/_crash_file
[21:19] <davmor2> fader_: worked for me when I had no internet but it needs to be a crash which grabs the info in advance
[21:19] <fader_> bdmurray: I think you know the answer to this :)  Is it valid to copy the crash dump from one machine and run ubuntu-bug against it on another machine?
[21:20] <moustafa> davmor2: There's nothing in /var/crash
[21:20] <fader_> davmor2: Hmm, I swear I thought I heard someone say that didn't work correctly, but I'll bow to your experience.
[21:21] <davmor2> moustafa: but it crashed right?
[21:21] <moustafa> davmor2: It simply didn't start
[21:21] <moustafa> I could try it again to make sure, but it just doesn't start
[21:21] <moustafa> even by going through the terminal, it fails
[21:21] <davmor2> moustafa: run it from cli
[21:22] <davmor2> moustafa: it might fail but it should give some info some where
[21:22] <moustafa> davmor2: see my previous comment ;)
[21:22] <moustafa> davmor2: I could redirect the output if that could help
[21:24] <bdmurray> fader_: yes, that would work
[21:24] <davmor2> fader_: :P
[21:24] <fader_> bdmurray: Thanks.
[21:24]  * fader_ heaps ashes on his head.
[21:24] <fader_> davmor2: You were right; mea culpa mea maxima culpa. :)
[21:26] <davmor2> fader_: your a cuppa ;)
[21:28] <davmor2> ulysses__: add --only-variant=i386
[21:29] <ulysses__> thanks
[21:29] <davmor2> ulysses__: sorry --only-arch=i386
[21:59] <charlie-tca> Anyone else seeing no splash screens when the desktop cd starts up
[21:59] <ulysses__> yes
[21:59] <charlie-tca> bug number?
[22:00] <davmor2> charlie-tca: I think there is one but it is stupidly faded
[22:00] <charlie-tca> great!
[22:01]  * charlie-tca still glad to have the desktop cd today
[22:03] <davmor2> charlie-tca: and on alpha 1 that has to be a record I can't remember the last time we had live cd's on alpha1
[22:03] <davmor2> 2+ yes
[22:03] <charlie-tca> That's right... It should be alternate only, right?
[22:04] <davmor2> normally
[22:07] <charlie-tca> Karmic was the first time Xubuntu even had any alpha 1 image
[22:08] <davmor2> charlie-tca: yes cause jaunty's didn't run
[22:09] <charlie-tca> we're trying, we're trying
[22:09] <davmor2> very ;)
[22:10] <charlie-tca> :-)
[22:39] <davmor2> Right I'm off guys ttyl
[22:49] <komputes> Can http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com include a use case for USB installation build from usb-creator. This would test creating a key from the CD/Live Environment + Test if the bootable USB disk environment has any bugs/issues.
[22:50] <komputes> fader_: ^ do you have access to add test cases?
[22:51] <fader_> komputes: No... I think you need to talk to ara to get testcases added
[22:51] <fader_> I don't have access to do it
[22:51] <komputes> fader_: will send her an email
[22:51] <komputes> thx
[22:51] <xtjacob> what is the best way to download the Ubuntu 10.04 iso?
[22:52] <komputes> xtjacob: cdimage.ubuntu.com
[22:52] <xtjacob> i mean program wise like direct link, jigdo, etc.
[22:53] <komputes> xtjacob: if you're downloading the daily iso on a regular basis, I think this can help you: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RsyncCdImage
[22:53] <komputes> xtjacob: heard jigdo was very good, but never used it myself
[22:55] <xtjacob> komputes: I'm using jigdo right now
[22:57] <xtjacob> I hope it works, seems to be having a lot of 404 erroes
[22:57] <moustafa> fader_, davmor2: Good evening!
[22:57] <fader_> moustafa: ciao


[18:42] <ogra> hrm, there isnt even an editor in the default install
[18:42]  * ogra wants to take notes
[18:43] <playya> ogra, not even vi?
[18:43] <ogra> no terminal
[18:44] <crevette> ogra: waht are you taking about
[18:44] <ogra> mo way to install software graphically either
[18:44] <ogra> crevette: jax10
[18:44] <ogra> the default preinstalled OS
[18:45] <playya> ssh ?
[18:45] <StevenK> No terminal
[18:45] <ogra> nope
[18:46] <ogra> no way to get to console at all
[18:46] <ogra> no package/softgware install tool in the gui
[18:46] <StevenK> Which irritates me greatly
[18:46] <playya> it was a little bit trickey too on my eee
[18:46] <ogra> yeah
[18:47] <playya> k orgtk based?
[18:47] <ogra> i dont want to reflash yet though
[18:47] <ogra> moblin i think
[18:47] <playya> ctr + alt + t or alt+f2
[18:48] <ogra> no F KEYS
[18:48] <playya> not a good device ;)
[18:49] <ogra> hmm, no alt either i just notice
[18:49] <ogra> the device is fine, the os is lacking
[18:55] <ogra> StevenK: battery shows 60%


[01:47] <smkellat> Anybody awake?  I found something screwy on AskUbuntu and I wanted to make sure I didn't step on somebody's toes first.
[01:47] <smkellat> Apparently a user there went ahead and named themselves Xubuntu: https://askubuntu.com/users/903128/xubuntu
[01:55] <smkellat> If anybody wants to chime in, have at it on meta.ask: https://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/18881/names-to-user-accounts
[01:55]  * smkellat heads off for End Of Day processing
[10:40] <bluesabre> smkellat: I'm pretty sure that's nobody from our team


[15:11] <Saviq> elopio, hi, it's your favourite I-bug-you, any idea how to get rid of \ in https://github.com/Saviq/nova-compute-lxd/pull/3/files#diff-c80fca5016bdd3c8916dac9e8ba9a9fcR52 ?
[15:11] <Saviq> I tried everything I could think of with (), but no go :/
[15:12] <elopio> Saviq: many patches, that smells like not-so-easy to test code.
[15:12] <elopio> Saviq: but, you can make a patch, and then start it
[15:13] <elopio> instead of putting it inside the with statement.
[15:13] <Saviq> elopio, yeah i was considering that, but that works and am quite happy, the only problem is I've no idea how to wrap without \
[15:13] <elopio> Saviq: well, \ is not wrong.
[15:14] <Saviq> elopio, sure, was just wondering if there's a solution :)
[15:14] <Saviq> elopio, fwiw, here's the tested function https://github.com/Saviq/nova-compute-lxd/blob/travis/nclxd/nova/virt/lxd/container_config.py#L50
[15:15] <Saviq> there's a lot of self.foo() calls, hence all the mocks...
[15:15] <elopio> Saviq: ok, give me some moments and I'll check it.
[15:16] <Saviq> I could move the patches a level up, tried to keep the test low level, though
[15:16] <Saviq> elopio, thank
[15:16] <Saviq> s
[16:47] <elopio> Saviq: sorry, long meeting and then forgot about you.
[16:48] <elopio> Saviq: why do you have to patch something like _init_container_config
[16:48] <elopio> doesn't seem to be slow, or to have any side-effects
[16:50] <elopio> it's an internal method, so you probably shouldn't write a unit test for it, but check it's behaviour through the public method that calls it.
[16:54] <elopio> yes, too many mocks. That usually happens when you try to do full coverage, but don't follow tdd.
[16:55] <elopio> Saviq: I would recommend to split the tests. I use a trick that if I can't properly name the test, it's probably wrong.
[16:56] <elopio> write first a test that's named like: test_configure_container_with_negative_memory_must_not_limit_memory
[16:57] <elopio> then write test_configure_container_with_positive_memory_must_limit_memory.
[16:57] <elopio> try passing to those methods a flavor that causes the if mem >= 0 to be taken, and a flavor that doesn't. And then check the container_config returned.
[16:58] <elopio> afai can see, you shouldn't need a mock to test that.
[17:12] <Saviq> elopio, right, test for _init_container_config is probably overkill
[17:12] <Saviq> elopio, and yeah, unfortunately I'm sticking tests on all that post-factum
[17:16] <Saviq> mocking add_config probably doesn't make sense either, now I think of it
[17:39] <elopio> Saviq: appart from configure_container, the rest of the method seem internal to me.
[17:39] <elopio> maybe ask why are they public?
[17:39] <Saviq> elopio, could be indeed, will check if they're even called anywhere et
[19:37] <balloons> bunosera Letozaf_ !
[19:38] <Letozaf_> buonasera balloons :) howzit ?
[19:38] <balloons> excellente. I was just talking with Akiva about the AP plugin
[19:38] <balloons> I was just thinking about those bugs you found.. do you mind filing them?
[19:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, I will, I was just fighting getting Thunderbird to work, but I will just now
[19:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, bug 1474108
[19:57] <balloons> bug #1474108
[19:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, :-P forgot #
[20:00] <balloons> Letozaf_, the bot doesn't love us today.. No linky or print
[20:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, :-)
[20:29] <Letozaf_> balloons, bug #1474117 and bug #1474119


[00:23] <smoser> SpamapS, yes, it would.
[00:24] <smoser> flaccid, cloud-init does generate new ssh host keys on first boot
[00:24] <smoser> of an instance
[00:24] <flaccid> sweet as thanks smoser
[02:52] <flaccid> smoser: oh the only question i had remaining is if cloud-utils is really a dep and why?
[02:52] <flaccid> (regarding cloud-init)
[13:31] <smoser> flaccid, cloud-utils is probably not a dep anymore.  ssh-import-id was there for a while, which allows you to populate authorized_keys easily from launchpad. i'd have to see if there is some other reason it is a dep.
[15:33] <TREllis> zul: howdy :)
[15:34] <zul> TREllis: hey
[15:35] <TREllis> zul: so, I'm back on a sane timezone now
[15:35] <zul> TREllis: oh good im not on a sane timezone :)
[15:35] <TREllis> zul: how was london?
[15:35] <zul> TREllis: umm...interesting...they canceled my game those mofos
[15:38] <TREllis> zul: lol
[15:39] <zul> TREllis: wasnt too happy about that
[15:40] <TREllis> zul: ah, so it was you who was rioting at the end of my street
[15:40] <zul> TREllis: yeah sorry about that
[15:44] <TREllis> zul: ;-)
[15:45] <TREllis> zul: just lookin' around but do you know of any major changes to the scheduler in nova? specifically looking for something related to the algorithms for queuing instances, when capacity is tight
[15:46] <zul> TREllis: there has been some work done on it i dont know of anything specific
[15:46] <TREllis> looking at the ec2 api, just seems there are a couple of returns that can be used for no capcity available, I'm wondering if there will be something related to queuing instances so that when instances are terminated others requested will start
[15:47] <TREllis> only thing I can find is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/distributed-scheduler which is a bit different
[21:25] <flaccid> thanks smoser !