[01:51] <duanedesign> didrocks: is empathy logs and/or settings something that is being considered for OneConf?
[05:27] <pitti> Good morning
[05:27] <kieppie> !lightweight
[05:27] <ubot2> Factoid 'lightweight' not found
[05:27] <kieppie> hi guys. what's the most lightweight, *functional* desktop manager/GUI environment I can use?
[05:28] <kieppie> I'm running Lubuntu on my netbook, but I'd like to keep options open
[06:57] <didrocks> good morning
[06:57] <didrocks> duanedesign: for maverick, not for now, but in long term, yes
[07:36] <pitti> hey didrocks
[07:36] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
[07:39] <pitti> didrocks: I'm great, thanks! I'm back in Munich
[07:39] <pitti> we did a nice climbing tour on Saturday
[07:40] <didrocks> oh, great :) how is the weather in Munich (hope not too hot as you are in a little accomodation) ?
[07:40] <didrocks> small*
[07:40] <pitti> it was 38 degrees on Saturday
[07:41] <pitti> it's a little less melting today, and fortunately this flat goes to the northwest
[07:41] <pitti> so it's quite nice right now (especially at 6 in the morning :) )
[07:41] <didrocks> sometimes it's good to have flat which goes to the north ;)
[07:41] <didrocks> heh, right
[07:42] <didrocks> In Bordeaux, it was 29 degrees at 8 AM :/ I let you imagine during the day…
[08:01] <and471> morning all
[08:47] <and471> mpt: could I ask a quick UI question?
[08:50] <and471> mpt: could I ask a quick UI question?
[08:50] <mpt> and471, yep
[08:51] <and471> mpt: in this image http://imagebin.ca/img/ZwI8Bn.png, I feel as though how I present the first action is wrong (i.e. the button is on the wrong side or something), is there a better way to do it?
[08:53] <mpt> and471, one clue is that at the bottom of an alert or dialog, a Cancel button should always be second from the right, which means that something belongs to the right of it
[08:53] <mpt> Which is going to be the most common action? Saving, perhaps?
[08:53] <and471> mpt, probably edit, then save as, then cancel
[08:53] <and471> save as just means a user is going to edit later
[08:54] <and471> the file format it saves in isn't really useful without editing first
[08:54] <mpt> ok
[08:54] <mpt> So, I can think of two ways to present this
[08:54] <mpt> One is easy to implement but slow to use
[08:54] <mpt> The other is harder to implement but quicker to use
[08:54] <and471> sounds fun :D
[08:54] <mpt> The first way is using radio buttons, with an option menu inside the one that's about editing
[08:55] <mpt> What do you want to do with it?
[08:55] <mpt> (*) Edit with [## Pitivi        :^]
[08:55] <mpt> ( ) Save it
[08:55] <mpt>                    ( Cancel ) (( Continue ))
[08:55] <and471> ok
[08:56] <mpt> The second way is to use a combo button, something I've seen in Windows but haven't seen in GTK, so I'm guessing it probably doesn't exist in GTK and you'd need to do it custom
[08:56] <mpt> "4 minutes 38 seconds were recorded.
[08:57] <mpt> ( Save… )         ( Discard ) ( Edit with Pitivi |^)
[08:57] <mpt> where the "Edit with Pitivi" button has a menubutton at its end that you can use to select a different application.
[08:58] <and471> mpt, cool, is there anywhere I could have an example of a combobutton, I kinda understand what you mean by it, but I would like to see one to be sure
[08:59] <mpt> and471, the "Open" button in http://www.wictorwilen.se/WindowsLiveWriter/CustomizetheFavoriteLinksinWindowsVistac_EA19/image070208[31].png
[09:00] <and471> mpt, thankyou very much for your help :)
[09:00] <mpt> you're welcome
[09:00] <and471> mpt, I shall leave you alone now ;p
[09:09] <and471> mpt, done! http://imagebin.ca/img/bRsbC9f.png
[09:09] <mpt> jolly good
[09:11]  * RAOF wonders why mutter was chosen for Unity.  Compiz uses about half the memory, all the animations are smoother & more physical, and has a more useful window switcher.
[09:12] <lifeless> njpatel: ^
[09:12]  * and471 needs breakfast
[09:13] <RAOF> It also works pretty well as a WM for unity.  Pretty much everything still works when you replace mutter with compiz.
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:17] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, had a nice weekend?
[09:17] <seb128> hey everybody:
[09:17] <seb128> did you have a nice weekend?
[09:17]  * pitti hugs seb128, how are you?
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, yeah, it was good thanks. the weather stayed nice for my garden party on saturday :)
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:17]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[09:17] <pitti> we went climbing on Saturday, and swimming yesterday (what else to do when it's 38 degrees..)
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, did you have a good weekend too?
[09:18] <seb128> I'm fine though I wouldn't say no to less than 35°C during days
[09:18] <mvo> RAOF: and compiz just released 0.9.0
[09:19] <mvo> RAOF: so it would be nice to give it a good boost by providing that in the compiz ppa
[09:20] <didrocks> hey seb128, how are you?
[09:21] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:21] <seb128> didrocks, read backlog, I'm lazy to type again :p
[09:21] <seb128> didrocks, how are you?
[09:22] <didrocks> seb128: I'm fine, thanks ;) A little bit exhausted as I was home late in Paris after a too warm week.
[09:22] <seb128> didrocks, had fun at the rmll?
[09:22] <seb128> don't tell me
[09:23] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's still more a social event than a technical one, but it was good to meet people and talk about projects, and so on
[09:23] <didrocks> 28°C at 8AM is quite scary when you think about what it will be later :)
[09:23] <qense> I find it already hot here, but you live in France! It must be unbearable there without cooling.
[09:24] <didrocks> I just visited for a couple of hours Bordeaux. Seems a beautiful city
[09:24] <seb128> it start being windy there, it might rain ;-)
[09:25] <didrocks> it rained a lot this night in Paris, the temperature is nice now :) (the 28°C was in Bordeaux)
[09:25] <njpatel> RAOF, actually, without Mutter it doesn't/won't work for all the features we need
[09:25] <njpatel> RAOF, though I agree compiz has better GL performance. It's something upstream Mutter and Clutter are working on
[09:25] <njpatel> (as are we, where we can)
[09:25] <RAOF> njpatel: Yeah, the swanky Ubuntu icon doesn't work properly :)
[09:26] <njpatel> Heh, neither will any of the fancy window and workspace stuff when it lands :-)
[09:26] <RAOF> Unity could be slightly more compiz-friendly by declaring itself to be always-on-top in addition to a panel.
[09:27] <njpatel> RAOF, it would require us to keep switching between xshapes (when we're painting only panel + launcher and when we're painting places), which doesn't always work out well
[09:27] <vuntz> seb128: didrocks pretented he was working all week, but I saw him! He was just sitting there, looking at people pass by
[09:27] <vuntz> (hi!)
[09:27] <seb128> vuntz, hey, I'm not surprised!
[09:28] <seb128> vuntz, he also pretented there was no internet but I've seen other people at this conference been on IRC
[09:28] <didrocks> vuntz: that's not nice from you :p
[09:28] <didrocks> seb128: well, in fact, there were 3 sites
[09:29] <RAOF> njpatel: Ah.  I'm interested in the funky window and workspace stuff - is the first cut of this the compiz-scale-like action on right-click?
[09:29] <didrocks> seb128: the one with conferences had a mostly working Internet connexion
[09:29] <vuntz> didrocks: did you find good ice cream on sunday?
[09:29] <didrocks> seb128: the free software "village" had a crappy one, with latency and a lot of disconnect (we didn't have any connection for 3 afternoon)
[09:29] <didrocks> vuntz: yeah o/ it was the nicest part of sunday to be honest :)
[09:30] <seb128> didrocks, I was just jocking don't worry ;-)
[09:31] <slomo> seb128: ricotz (in #ubuntu-devel) has a gdkpixbuf package, maybe you can start with that and save some time ;)
[09:31] <vuntz> seb128: btw, we learnt that you speak australian english
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: I now, I backlog on Saturday evening and saw you talked to jml :)
[09:31] <seb128> vuntz, that means crappy english right? ;-)
[09:31] <vuntz> heh
[09:31] <seb128> didrocks, I didn't do IRC during the weekend, that was friday rather
[09:32] <didrocks> vuntz: how was your flight, btw? :)
[09:32] <seb128> slomo, oh ok, thanks, did you commit that to debian or reviewed it?
[09:32] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, but the saturday evening bar was the best Internet connexion I had this week, as the fact I backlogged IRC on that day :)
[09:32] <slomo> seb128: not yet, no. he said that the scripts and stuff are still missing
[09:32] <seb128> slomo, btw I just saw your glib upload, isn't an issue to have the bin compat entries in the library?
[09:33] <seb128> slomo, that would make different soname conflict no?
[09:33] <seb128> didrocks, oh ok
[09:34] <vuntz> didrocks: my flight was one-hour late
[09:34] <vuntz> didrocks: they had to fix something in the plane before we could take off
[09:34] <njpatel> RAOF, right, that's the initial one. We'll have workspace switching in their soon. The benefits of being in the window manager will show when we add the fancy DND between windows/workspaces and other niceties for day-to-day usage
[09:34] <didrocks> vuntz: urgh, we could have took an icecream finally…
[09:35] <slomo> seb128: the new library package would have a Replaces on the old for the links
[09:36] <seb128> slomo, hum, ok...
[09:36] <seb128> slomo, still seems against usual rules and weird to do
[09:37] <seb128> slomo, why not just using the -bin?
[09:44] <slomo> seb128: might be the better idea...
[09:47] <slomo> seb128: problem is, that gio-querymodules has no pkg-config entry and build systems might require it
[09:47] <slomo> seb128: so you would need to depend on libglib2.0-bin
[09:48] <seb128> slomo, well, how was that working until now? do we really have anything build depending on it in practice or is that something which could happens once to one source?
[09:49] <seb128> slomo, should probably discuss that on #debian-gnome
[09:49] <slomo> seb128: i think gvfs and gconf should call it in make install
[09:49] <slomo> and it worked before because they were, where upstream placed them... in /usr/bin
[09:49] <seb128> they should probably have a flag to not do that
[09:49] <seb128> similar to the disable schemas update one
[09:50] <seb128> well, why did we need to move them to start then?
[09:50] <slomo> i don't know, i didn't see the problem with keeping them in the -bin package together with the triggers and let libglib2.0-0 recommend the -bin package
[11:32] <didrocks> mvo: hey! I tried to add the different host for oneconf in viewswitcher. The issue is that there is a lot of "if channel column" in the model preventing myself to use that for storing hostid that I need to switch to the right view.
[11:33] <didrocks> mvo: what do you think? Should be attribute some kind of plugin id in COL_ACTION and use COL_CHANNEL for plugin? and checking that COL_ACTION is either USC and plugin handled?
[12:26] <mvo> didrocks: hi, is your branch available somewhere
[12:27] <didrocks> mvo: only with the login integration, I can push my WIP branch. I'm trying something to patch USC, can push in 10 min a proposal I think
[12:27] <mvo> didrocks: ok
[12:28] <mvo> didrocks: once there is something to look at that is easier for me to figure out whats needed
[12:28] <didrocks> mvo: sure :)
[12:35] <micahg> seb128: did you want me to merge gjs from debian or not bother since they're the same basic version?
[12:36] <seb128> micahg, would be nice to merge at least once in the cycle if you can do it
[12:36] <micahg> seb128: k, that shouldn't be a problem
[12:36] <seb128> thanks
[13:00] <didrocks> mvo: lp:~didrocks/software-center/expand-viewswitcher-select for my changes in USC and lp:~ubuntu-desktop/oneconf/trunk for oneconf
[13:00] <didrocks> mvo: as you can see there (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=installed-software-computers.jpg), hosts registered in OneConf will be "ACTION" for USC point of view
[13:01] <didrocks> mvo: and I need to use COL_CHANNEL to get some hostid (more than one computer can have the same description, so I need this hostid)
[13:02] <didrocks> mvo: the thing is, the current support in USC is only to refresh (by removing/adding) all channels, my change is to enable reselecting whatever item in the treeview rather than just channels
[13:02] <didrocks> mvo: I still get some issues with the history element, I don't know why I can't get it selected
[13:22] <mvo> didrocks: aha, I see. this sounds like we need to make the current schema in trunk/ more flexible, it looks like your change is a great start, let me start pondering a little bit
[13:23] <mvo> didrocks:  and I will merge the plugin stuff to trunk now so that we have a easier time merging
[13:25] <didrocks> mvo: great! :) yeah, that's exactly that: some flexibility to enable plugins to hook (as maybe an unique ID for plugins to not collide their action?) also, the some tweaking is needed for on_view_switcher_changed in app.py to enable plugin hooking their action their
[13:54] <mpt> mvo, hi, I'd like to send a quick reply to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-June/011729.html
[13:54] <mpt> mvo, is the right answer "we're migrating to Ubuntu Software Center long-term, so to fix it there, make sure that aptdaemon blocks session exit"?
[13:58] <mvo> didrocks: I just looked at the viewswitcher code and its in general a bit ugly and could do with some cleanup (all my fault). would something like "viewswitch.register_view" and some simple signals (selected, expanded) be ok? it seems like it would be a good idea to hide the gtktreemodel stuff as its not really releveant for most users of the ViewSwitcher class (i.e. the fact that its a treeview is just a implmeentation detail). what do you
[13:58] <mvo> think?
[13:58] <mvo> mpt: yes
[13:59] <mpt> mvo, great, thanks
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: we should probably do both, block session exit and halt shutdown until the stuff is finished
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: for cases where the user uses stuff like "sudo halt" to halt the system
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: unattended-upgrades is a good pointer for him
[13:59] <mvo> mpt: it integrates a script like this (a upstart script)
[14:00] <didrocks> mvo: this is a good idea. I think that if plugins can avoid playing directly with the model is a bad idea :) We just need for them to have a uuid for their entry (not related to what is displayed) in addition to name and icon, and some simple signal.
[14:01] <mvo> didrocks: yeah, I guess that can be a simple string that the we generate from the (plugin-name, name) ?
[14:01] <didrocks> mvo: so, in my case, for instance, I show icons and hostname, but I can have more than one hostid for a hostname, so I should get that value when the selected signal is triggered (or just point to the right view)
[14:01] <didrocks> mvo: also, I can add/remove some items during USC lifetime (what is doing my latest commit in OneConf)
[14:01] <didrocks> mvo: plugin-name-name-id for me :) (see ^^ with hostname/hostid)
[14:02] <mvo> didrocks: ok, let me draft a interface for that
[14:02] <didrocks> mvo: great, if I can help you, do not hesitate to ask me :)
[14:10] <mvo> didrocks: I created a ehterpad here http://openetherpad.org/uLbnSTxeFJ
[14:10] <mvo> didrocks: go wild there :)
[14:10] <didrocks> mvo: on it, thanks :)
[14:10] <mvo> thanks!
[14:13] <didrocks> mvo: testing new unity release, backport to lucid and on it in… let's say half an hour/45 minutes
[14:14] <mvo> didrocks: no problem, I have some test failures in python-apt to fix too
[14:14] <mvo> didrocks: just wanted to throw a skeleton out so that we have something to talk about
[14:14] <mpt> mvo, ok, I included that info in the message too, with links to the relevant branches
[14:14] <mvo> mpt: thanks!
[14:39] <htorque> hey, against which package should i file a bug, if an application "survives" a logout? banshee is still playing after I've logged out and logged in again.
[14:40] <seb128> the concerned software
[14:40] <htorque> k, thx
[14:48] <pitti> seb128: hmm, current 2.31 gpm uses gsettings
[14:48] <seb128> pitti, we don't do GNOME 2.31
[14:49] <pitti> ok; I wasn't sure whether we want to do some gsettings packages or not
[14:50] <seb128> depends
[14:50] <seb128> if the benefit is worth the work...
[14:50] <pitti> not so far; we can do cherrypicks
[14:50] <seb128> but that one seems a tricky one because it's likely to have keys shared over components
[14:50] <pitti> it ports from libdevkit-power to libupower-glib
[14:50] <pitti> but we can backport that as well
[14:50] <pitti> (next upower release will drop libdevkit-power)
[14:50] <seb128> ok
[14:50] <seb128> thanks
[14:51] <seb128> we try to avoid having shared desktop keys with gsettings and gconf clients
[14:51] <seb128> since there is no sync between those
[14:51] <seb128> so for now we only updates selected softwares, ie empathy
[14:51] <seb128> or gnome-calculator
[15:06] <seb128> hum
[15:07] <seb128> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/462547/
[15:07] <seb128> mvo, have you seen similar crashes? it's on current maverick there
[15:09] <mvo> seb128: let me check
[15:10] <seb128> mvo, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/604250
[15:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604250 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in estimatedDownloadTime() (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 3286)" [Undecided,New]
[15:10] <seb128> mvo, it has been reported by somebody else so it's not only me ;-)
[15:19] <mvo> seb128: thanks, fixed
[15:19] <seb128> mvo, waouh, you rock as always, thanks!
[15:23] <seb128> mvo, I've changed the bug to fix commited
[15:27] <mvo> seb128: thanks, fix uploaded
[15:28] <seb128> mvo, ;-)
[15:29] <didrocks> mvo: thinking about it, the view_id in my comment doesn't seem relevant for most of plugin I guess. I'll handle the dict on my side. I can't think about any other thing needed for the pane list
[15:34] <mvo> didrocks: thanks, so the view-manager thing looks ok?
[15:35] <didrocks> mvo: yeah, sounds fullfill my needs at least and the one for your cases too, right?
[15:36] <didrocks> mvo: I'm just wondering, as I'll refresh the list regularly as you do for channels, is it to the plugin to ensure that removing/adding the same view again still select the right item?
[15:37] <mvo> didrocks: keep selected> not sure yet, I guess it should be done by the ViewManager, but I'm not 100% certain yet
[15:37] <mvo> didrocks: use-case> it should simplify the current code quite a bit, so it should be a good change
[15:38] <seb128> pitti, hum, seems the ddeb index is buggy
[15:39] <dobey> oh wow package summaries really suck don't they :)
[15:40] <dobey> some packages from the same source all have the same summary it seems :-/
[15:40] <kenvandine> dobey, indeed... lots of those i think
[15:40] <didrocks> mvo: sure, it would be good for you too :) I'm thinking about that view (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=inventory-computer.jpg), do you think I just inherite from an existing one or start a new one? It has mutiple treeview (installed/removed/others) and I'm quite scary about the search integration TBH
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/libi/libindicator/
[15:41] <dobey> i just ran update-manager and was like "wait, what am i updating?"
[15:41] <dobey> doesn't help that the package name is <small> now
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, some of the debs are not listed in any index, neither the main one or the universe one
[15:41] <seb128> pitti, it seems it's binaries in universe from a source in main missing there
[15:44] <dobey> is the glib/gconf conflict fixed now? i've been holding back gconf since it broke
[15:44] <seb128> what conflicts?
[15:45] <seb128> there is no known conflicts
[15:45] <seb128> dobey, there was some issues with the gnome-shell ppa it seems
[15:45] <seb128> using that maybe?
[15:45] <dobey> no
[15:46] <dobey> there was a conflict with a man page
[15:46] <seb128> ok so we need details on the conflict
[15:46] <dobey> something to do with gsettings/dconf stuff
[15:46] <seb128> if you could copy the exact conflict line from apt that would be useful
[15:49] <dobey>  trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/man1/gsettings-schema-convert.1.gz', which is also in package libglib2.0-bin 2.25.9-1ubuntu3
[15:49] <dobey> seems to not be in the glib2.0-bin package any more though, according to dpkg -L
[15:49] <dobey> hrmm
[15:50] <dobey> will try upgrading gconf2 again after the current update finishes running
[15:51] <seb128> dobey, sudo apt-get -f install
[15:51] <seb128> dobey, your libglib2.0-bin is outdated
[15:51] <dobey> i did that at the time, and it failed
[15:51] <seb128> dobey, sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-bin gconf
[15:52] <dobey> so i just installed the older gconf2 packages to get things going
[15:52] <dobey> but it looks like it installs ok now
[15:53] <dobey> i guess i ran an update at some point when the archive wasn't totally synced, to get that issue?
[15:54] <seb128> dobey, right and we forgot to use a replaces to handle the move nicely
[15:55] <mvo> dobey: update-manager> I have no strong opinions either way, there is a gconf key to switch to the old style
[15:56] <dobey> hrmm, well, need to reboot :)
[15:59] <djsiegel> seb128: !
[15:59] <djsiegel> seb128: long time no see
[15:59] <mpt> mvo, have you seen this? https://code.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/software-properties/updates-redesign/+merge/29123
[15:59] <seb128> re
[15:59] <didrocks> mvo: did you saw my previous question? (approx 15 minutes before) about the paneview inheritence?
[15:59] <seb128> djsiegel, hey, how arre you?
[15:59] <djsiegel> seb128: I'd like for us to turn off the screen lock on resume by default.
[16:00] <vish> +1 to djsiegel
[16:00] <mvo> mpt: no, I check it out after the call
[16:00]  * vish always the first thing i do on a fresh install
[16:00] <mpt> ok
[16:00] <seb128> djsiegel, hum, I think we had this discussion before
[16:00] <djsiegel> seb128: because it makes resume take about 3 seconds less
[16:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: ^
[16:00] <mvo> didrocks: no, can you paste it in again (in a call right now, sorry)
[16:00] <seb128> do you remember if we discussed this?
[16:00] <djsiegel> seb128: you've always had the discussion before!
[16:00] <didrocks> sure, mvo: sure, it would be good for you too :) I'm thinking about that view (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=inventory-computer.jpg), do you think I just inherite from an existing one or start a new one? It has mutiple treeview (installed/removed/others) and I'm quite scary about the search integration TBH
[16:01] <chrisccoulson> we did discuss it before at some point
[16:01] <seb128> djsiegel, not my fault if what ux guys see as annoyances are often a balance between security and usability ;-)
[16:01] <djsiegel> Yeah whatever.
[16:01] <djsiegel> lol
[16:01] <seb128> djsiegel, it also makes your system less secure
[16:02] <djsiegel> seb128: people can lock before they close it if they want
[16:02] <djsiegel> I don't like the idea that we are always locking the screen on idle, on screensaver, on sleep "for security"
[16:03] <seb128> well then you make suspend be 2 actions instead of one
[16:03] <djsiegel> yes, when you want it locked
[16:03] <djsiegel> you could change the default if you always want a lock
[16:03] <seb128> I'm not even sure how you suspend once it's locked
[16:03] <djsiegel> but users who don't want the lock get a better experience
[16:03] <djsiegel> I ran this by sabdfl and he is +1 on it.
[16:03] <chrisccoulson> at some point, the lock-on-idle and lock-on-suspend preference got decoupled, and we had a lot of users complain that when they enabled lock-on-idle in the screensaver preferences, their screen didn't lock on suspend
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, can we get a clear spec which defines the behaviour on all situations?
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, ie on user switching, on suspend, on hibernate
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> so we fixed that so that the preference applies to both suspend and idle, and we switched on lock-on-idle by default for security reasons
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, on manual screen locking
[16:04] <djsiegel> seb128: yeah, sure
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, and how we change from wanting to not lock to lock
[16:04] <seb128> djsiegel, thanks
[16:05] <seb128> djsiegel, we should probably have all those consistant and with one setting changing mode to lock to unlock
[16:05] <djsiegel> seb128: hmm
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> i'm surprised that locking affects resume speed so much though
[16:05] <djsiegel> lock on screensaver and lock on suspend could be two separate preferences for some people
[16:05] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: I think there's some artifical sleep in there or something
[16:06] <chrisccoulson> we had that by accident and users got really confused
[16:06] <seb128> djsiegel, what about lock on user switch?
[16:06] <djsiegel> seb128: you mean the bug I reported?
[16:06] <seb128> dunno if you reported a bug, I know that's yet another case of "lock on..."
[16:06] <seb128> not sure if we want a screen with a list of "lock on..." options
[16:06] <seb128> or just having "lock in all cases or don't"
[16:07] <djsiegel> seb: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm-guest-session/+bug/600559
[16:07] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 600559 in gdm-guest-session (Ubuntu) "When screensaver lock is disabled, terminating a guest session resumes the parent session without asking for a password (affects: 1) (heat: 564)" [Undecided,New]
[16:08] <djsiegel> seems like the implementation is a bunch of spaghetti, interpreting the same gconf keys in different contexts
[16:08] <seb128> djsiegel, is that specific to the guest session?
[16:08] <seb128> right :-(
[16:08] <seb128> that's why I would like clear spec with all the case
[16:08] <djsiegel> seb128: no I think the account switch lock is reusing the screensaver lock!
[16:08] <seb128> rather than just tweaking one key which will have side effect
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel, in the case of your bug report, the screen has to be locked regardless of whether you return to GDM or your session
[16:08] <djsiegel> chrisccoulson: isn't GDM the lock?
[16:08] <seb128> no
[16:08] <djsiegel> you wouldn't want a lock screen over GDM
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel, no, your session will still be active on another VT
[16:09] <seb128> you can ctrl-alt-f<n>
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> i could just switch VT from GDM ;)
[16:09] <seb128> you need the screensaver to lock the actual session
[16:09] <seb128> or anybody can use the keyboard to go to your session
[16:10] <djsiegel> ok, explain one more time please :)
[16:10] <djsiegel> When I switch user sessions, I am really switching to GDM on another vt?
[16:11] <seb128> explain what? I feel we have described lot of cases and are as confused as this whole locking story is
[16:11] <djsiegel> My session stays running on another vt with the screensaver lock?
[16:11] <seb128> yes
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> djsiegel, yes
[16:11] <seb128> the greeter screen is on one VT
[16:11] <seb128> and each user session has its own VT
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> the only way to protect the session is for the screensaver to lock it
[16:11] <seb128> changing user sessions or going to the user lists are only VT switches
[16:11] <djsiegel> so, when you said we need a lock at GDM, you meant a lock screen, locking my session, but not locking GDM, which happens to be running on another vt at the same time
[16:12] <seb128> we didn't say that gdm needs a lock
[16:12] <seb128> the user session needs gnome-screensaver to start locking on any context switch
[16:12] <djsiegel> ok, I was confused by "the screen has to be locked [if] ...you return to GDM"
[16:13] <djsiegel> ok, got it
[16:13] <djsiegel> I think we may want to disable lock on resume regardless if it's causing resume performance issues
[16:13] <djsiegel> Maybe we can fix the sleep though
[16:13] <seb128> do we want to lock the keyring then?
[16:13] <djsiegel> it does seem artificial
[16:13] <seb128> or do you want to let the keyring unprotected?
[16:14] <chrisccoulson> we should probably look at those performance issues before taking a decision like that
[16:14] <djsiegel> Well, what we want is fast resume, not 3 second resume
[16:14] <chrisccoulson> and we'd need to discuss such a decision with the security team anyway
[16:14] <seb128> well do you want your passwords to be protected on sleep?
[16:14] <djsiegel> I don't think the user will mind if the keyring is locked
[16:14] <seb128> or do you want anybody stealing your laptop having your password in clear
[16:14] <seb128> well it will in the sense you will have to enter your keyring password on resume
[16:14] <seb128> to connect to your im or wireless
[16:14] <djsiegel> seb128: immediately?
[16:15] <djsiegel> ah, ok
[16:15] <seb128> yes
[16:15] <ronoc> bl8: ping
[16:15] <djsiegel> I see
[16:15] <seb128> so it sort of defeat the win
[16:15] <djsiegel> yep
[16:15] <chrisccoulson> do we even lock the keyring on suspend?
[16:15] <djsiegel> but at least you see your desktop state and not a black lock screen, but it's really all the same and we can do better
[16:15] <seb128> the other option is to not lock the keyring on suspend
[16:15] <chrisccoulson> i know we used to when the suspend requests were proxied through g-p-m......
[16:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I think we do since gnome-screensaver unlock it
[16:16] <seb128> djsiegel, well at least people understand the "enter your password", they don't really understand the "enter your keyring password" and why it's displayed
[16:16] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, does gnome-screensaver actually lock the keyring?
[16:16] <seb128> djsiegel, ie they don't get they need that password to be able to read their im or wireless password in a secure way
[16:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure what does lock it
[16:17] <djsiegel> yes, this is a separate issue that is solvable, I am just worried about the wait time added by the lock screen on resume, and also worried about asking for a password to resume
[16:17] <djsiegel> we can solve them in that order, I don't see any reason why the lock screen needs 3 seconds to show
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i have a feeling that nothing locks it right now
[16:17] <djsiegel> unless maybe it's going to disk or something?
[16:18] <seb128> djsiegel, it doesn't there
[16:18] <seb128> it would need debugging on why it does for you
[16:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that would be a bug
[16:19] <djsiegel> I've seen it on quite a few laptops.
[16:19] <djsiegel> With locking on, I resume, there's a pause, then the lock screen
[16:19] <djsiegel> With locking off, I resume and instantly see the desktop
[16:19] <djsiegel> it's been the case with all laptops I've tried
[16:19] <djsiegel> come to think of it, maybe even SSD too...
[16:26] <seb128> djsiegel, is the desktop usable or do you just see the desktop displayed?
[16:27] <seb128> djsiegel, I think it's as slow but in your case you already have in the video the display you want to see
[16:27] <djsiegel> seb128: cannot test atm, maverick broke my suspend
[16:27] <seb128> so it's quite a nice user experience
[16:27] <djsiegel> it doesn't matter really, it feels fast
[16:27] <seb128> as long as you are trying to use it before it's ready
[16:27] <seb128> right
[16:27] <seb128> well I'm fine doing the change
[16:28] <seb128> but I don't want to tweak one key every second week because users get confused by some behaviour
[16:28] <seb128> I think we should think clearly about what we want in case of suspend, hibernate, lock screen, user switching, guest session
[16:28] <seb128> and specify the options to control these settings
[16:28] <seb128> ie have the behaviour we want spec-ed
[16:29] <seb128> otherwise we will keep have confusion on what settings do to each of those cases
[16:29] <seb128> and if that's the right behaviour
[16:29] <seb128> etc
[16:29] <seb128> djsiegel, ^
[16:41] <djsiegel> seb128: right
[16:41] <djsiegel> we should do that, and that will likely involve some new code
[16:41] <djsiegel> to decouple currently tightly coupled settings
[16:41] <seb128> indeed
[16:42] <djsiegel> but I wonder whether we should just change the setting to get faster resumes for the time being, or make no change until we can fix it all?
[16:42] <djsiegel> mvo: I merged that code I sent you into a local branch of software-center - it works!
[16:42] <seb128> djsiegel, so changing from having the screen locking to have the keyring password prompt?
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, can I be nosy and ask what?
[16:43] <and471> it does?
[16:43] <djsiegel> and471: /
[16:43] <djsiegel> ?
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, the patch
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, sorry I was thinking about something else, the code you sent mvo
[16:43] <djsiegel> and471: Ubuntu Software Center shows the oldest screenshot available for each package, and I patched it to show the newest one available...
[16:43] <and471> djsiegel, woo!
[16:44] <mvo> djsiegel: cool, push the branch :)
[16:44] <djsiegel> mvo: it will need some threading
[16:44] <djsiegel> you synchronously make the resource url right now
[16:44] <djsiegel> the scraping blocks a bit
[16:44] <djsiegel> not for production use!
[16:45] <djsiegel> seb128: so, I disabled the resume lock on my machine, and I don't get keyring prompt, so this means my keyring is unlocked with the resume lock is off in Lucid?
[16:45] <djsiegel> *my keyring is unlocked when the resume lock is off
[16:45] <djsiegel> are you guys on mumble?
[16:46] <bigon> seb128: around?
[16:46] <seb128> djsiegel, do you come to the sprint next week?
[16:46] <seb128> bigon, yes
[16:46] <bigon> seb128: did you saw my message this morning about tp-butterfly?
[16:47] <djsiegel> seb128: yes
[16:47] <bigon> last papyon and tp-butterfly now support file transfert
[16:47] <and471> mvo, is the dialog that appears when you click File > Login meant to be this one? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=review-single-sign-on.jpg
[16:47] <seb128> bigon, yes, sorry I forgot to reply, I do sync all telepathy-* usually when they are uploaded to debian
[16:47] <and471> mvo, or is it different?
[16:47] <bigon> seb128: alright :)
[16:47] <seb128> bigon, yeah, they are already in maverick, I synced them early on
[16:47] <seb128> djsiegel, ok, so let's chat next week rather
[16:47] <djsiegel> sure
[16:47] <seb128> djsiegel, I've another call in 15 minutes and need to finish something before
[16:48] <bigon> seb128: great :)
[16:48] <and471> mpt, maybe my question for mvo ^ is for you?
[16:51] <mpt> and471, roughly the same, but maybe without the "I want to register an account" option, since someone should have gone into it only if they had an existing account they wanted to reassociate with.
[16:51] <mpt> and471, mvo, and it's "Log In", not "Login". :-) http://loginisnotaverb.com/
[16:52] <and471> mvo, uhoh, you're in trouble... :D
[16:52] <and471> mpt, thanks
[16:53] <mvo> and471: yes, this one
[16:53] <staz> bigon: seb128 it apparently eat the whole cpu when you cancel a file transfer so I would wait till they figure this out before packaging
[16:53] <seb128> staz, it's already uploaded and in Debian and Ubuntu
[16:53] <staz> ah
[16:54] <didrocks> mpt: did you see my remaining questions at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2010-June/002591.html? (particularly on the "Other items" where I'm puzzled about the meaning)
[16:54] <mpt> didrocks, yes, there's a reply in my Outbox
[16:54] <mvo> and471: there is something for this already in the code, but the login dialog and the glade could do with some love
[16:55] <mvo> and471: in case you look for something simple to relax ;)
[16:55] <and471> mvo, thats what I was going to look at :)
[16:55] <and471> hehe
[16:55] <didrocks> mpt: ok, just wanted to ensure it wasn't lost and dropped of TODO list :) thanks!
[16:55] <mvo> and471: sweet
[16:56] <mvo> and471: softwwarecenter/view/logindialog.py iirc
[16:56] <and471> mvo, cool, and I presume data/ui/login.ui
[16:56] <mvo> and471: yep
[16:56] <mvo> PYTHONPATH=. python softwarecenter/vielogindialog.py
[16:57] <mvo> and471: if you want to actually run it, it should actually work and log you into your ubuntu single-sign-on account
[16:57] <pitti> seb128: hm, for all such cases?
[16:57] <seb128> pitti, what?
[16:57] <pitti> seb128: main/universe mix ddebs missing
[16:58] <seb128> pitti, dunno, the case I've is libindicate-tools there
[16:58] <seb128> pitti, libindicator-tools rather
[16:58] <pitti> seb128: screen lock> we did, and I think the biggest issue everyone had was to be consistent with locking for timeouts, suspends, and user switches
[16:58] <and471> mvo, ah thanks, it should be easier now
[16:59] <seb128> pitti, do we have any security concern to let the keyring and computer unlocked after suspend?
[16:59] <pitti> well, the obvious case is that your laptop gets stolen
[16:59] <pitti> (while it's in suspend)
[16:59] <and471> mvo, how can I trusts that the username and password I type in aren't going to your botnet? :D
[17:00] <pitti> seb128: but if users aren't concerned about that, it's not rocket science to turn off
[17:00] <seb128> pitti, we were discussing default though
[17:00] <seb128> pitti, ie what the out of the box installation do
[17:00] <pitti> personally I like it the way it is, TBH
[17:01] <pitti> for mobile devices it's the right thing to do IMHO
[17:01] <seb128> right
[17:01] <seb128> ok, dist-upgrade done, session restart, brb
[17:02] <mvo> and471: heh :) better use a fake account then ;)
[17:02] <and471> mvo, ;0
[17:02] <and471> ;)
[17:03] <seb128> hum
[17:03] <seb128> bug-buddy hijack apport there now it seems?
[17:07] <bl8> ronoc: pong
[17:11] <mvo> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/604500 smeels like a policykit-gtk issue to me, what do you think?
[17:11] <ronoc> bl8: hey
[17:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 604500 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Update-manager second password input box isn't selected by default (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[17:11] <ronoc> bl8: have you prepared a package for maverick with the ayatana and mpris stuff in it ?
[17:13] <ronoc> bl8: I was hoping to get a banshee compliant package into the ppa so as I can test against
[17:13] <bl8> ronoc: No, I haven't updated the mpris stuff for the spec update yet.
[17:14] <ronoc> bl8: okay
[17:14] <ronoc> bl8: was going to release 0.3.6 which will fix alot of silly stuff wrong with previous versions
[17:14] <ronoc> this should be out later today
[17:14] <seb128> ronoc, it's out already
[17:15] <bl8> ronoc: External factors are doing wonders to get me away from working on that : other shiny stuff, etc. ;)
[17:15] <bl8> ronoc: Cool, I'll keep an eye on that
[17:15] <ronoc> seb128: legend thx
[17:16] <ronoc> bl8: I hear you , summer is passing us by ...
[17:17] <seb128> mvo, hum, I hate focus issues ;-)
[17:17] <seb128> mvo, but yeah, seems likely
[17:18] <seb128> pitti, sorry got sidetracked by other pings, I will check if I get the ddeb issues with something else
[17:19] <huats> hello everyone !
[17:19] <seb128> lut huats
[17:19] <huats> seb128, o/
[17:19] <kenvandine> hey huats
[17:19] <huats> thanks for your answer seb128
[17:20] <huats> hello kenvandine
[17:20] <seb128> np
[17:20] <huats> seb128, I think I'll find something else to work on:)
[17:20] <seb128> ;-)
[17:29] <pitti> good night everyone!
[17:30] <seb128> 'night pitti
[17:33] <didrocks> good nigh pitti
[17:36] <didrocks> mpt: thanks for the answer, I'll get a proper reply tomorrow morning :)
[17:36] <mpt> ok
[17:38]  * didrocks waves goodnight too
[17:52] <seb128> didrocks, have fun, see you tomorow
[17:52] <seb128> tomorrow
[17:53] <and471> mpt, is this okay? http://imagebin.org/105001
[17:54] <and471> mpt, (obviously with ubuntu logo instead of elementary)
[17:54] <mpt> and471, did you do that from scratch, or is that a polish of mvo's existing dialog?
[17:55] <and471> mpt, umm, a bit of both
[17:55] <and471> mpt, I took his dialog, but then reformatted the structure
[17:55] <and471> mpt, I used a table as the main structure, rather than two vboxs
[17:55] <and471> mpt, can I ask why?
[17:56] <mpt> and471, just didn't want you to have done unnecessary work :-)
[17:56] <mpt> It looks just about perfect, well done
[17:56] <and471> mpt, hehe thanks
[17:56] <mpt> two tiny things wrong
[17:56] <and471> cool
[17:56] <mpt> and471, 1: A missing "." at the end of the primary text
[17:57] <mpt> and471, 2: "I've" should be "I’ve" :-)
[17:57] <and471> mpt, hehe good to see I'm not the only OCD person :D
[17:57] <and471> mpt, ok those are now fixed
[17:58] <and471> mpt, do you want to have the dialog to play around with, just incase there are errors only apparent when used
[18:02] <mpt> and471, is the first text field focused by default?
[18:02] <mpt> and471, does the dialog block use of the main window? (it should)
[18:09] <mpt> and471, other than that, yes :-) But I'm going home now, and it looks good enough to be merged into the ratings-and-reviews branch anyway
[18:09] <mpt> thanks for working on it
[18:09] <and471> mpt, ah sorry didn't see ur comments
[18:09] <and471> mpt, your welcome
[19:21] <abhi_nav> and413
[19:21] <abhi_nav> ping
[19:25] <kim0> Hey, is there anyway to get a notification that sticks on the desktop. i.e. I want to setup an irssi script that puts an icon in the tray when I'm mentioned in irc
[19:25] <kim0> all messages so far appear for a few seconds then they're gone
[19:27] <Laney> write some bindings for the messaging indicator?
[19:28] <abhi_nav> Laney, do you know that person something called and741 etc? I need to meet him regarding learnid. any reference you can give?
[19:28] <Laney> abhi_nav: No, sorry. Try /whois or email
[19:28] <abhi_nav> Laney, ok
[19:28] <abhi_nav> anyone from learnid team here?
[19:32] <tremolux> abhi_nav: I think you are looking for and471; he was on earlier but signed off about 1/2 hour ago
[19:32] <abhi_nav> tremolux, yah ok. thanks :)
[19:33] <tremolux> abhi_nav: sure  :)
[19:33] <dobey> hey tremolux
[19:34] <tremolux> hiya dobey
[19:34] <dobey> tremolux: i guess you work from home all the time now?
[19:34] <abhi_nav> tremolux, actualy anybody from lernid project will do. :) if possible. ;)
[19:34] <tremolux> abhi_nav: sorry, can't help there
[19:35] <tremolux> dobey: yep, pretty much!
[19:35] <abhi_nav> tremolux, ok. np
[19:35] <dobey> tremolux: too bad. i stopped by the office last tuesday. it seemed emptier than when i was there in january though :P
[19:36] <tremolux> dobey: ah!  sorry I missed you
[19:40] <dobey> tremolux: no worries :)
[19:41] <tremolux> dobey: I haven't been there during office hours in a few weeks now, I sure can't imagine it anything like empty tho!!  ;)
[19:44] <dobey> haha, well, there were people there
[19:44] <dobey> but it didn't seem as busy as it was in january
[20:59] <jcastro> seb128: good job!
[20:59] <seb128> jcastro, thanks ;-)
[21:12] <huats> seb128, that was interesting indeed seb128


[00:25] <godbyk> dutchie: drat! I'm not a member, but I'd love to test it with our manual a bit.
[00:27] <dutchie> out of folks in here, humphreybc, zkriesse, jussi, h00k, pleia2, issyl0, AlanBell and I think nisshh are members
[00:28] <dutchie> one of those is bound to be happy to help
[00:28] <godbyk> dutchie: you're not a member yet?  I'm surprised.
[00:29] <dutchie> feel free to add to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dutchie :)
[00:29] <godbyk> I need to update my wiki page sometime: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinGodby
[00:33] <godbyk> looks like everyone who pinged me earlier is offline now.  I hate that. :)
[00:34] <dutchie> i should be offline
[00:35] <dutchie> it's gone half past midnight
[00:40] <dutchie> but it's the last day of my last ever term at school tomorrow \o/
[00:42] <godbyk> awesome! congrats!
[00:42] <dutchie> i went to the pub with my maths teacher this afternoon :)
[00:50] <daker> dutchie: \o/
[00:51] <dutchie> you are unlikely to see me much for a week or two due to holidays and whatnot
[00:52] <godbyk> dutchie: sure thing.
[00:52] <daker> dutchie: tell humphreybc to design the mockup for bugs.u-m.o
[00:53] <daker> \o/
[00:53] <dutchie> 00:52:58 < daker> dutchie: tell humphreybc to design the mockup for bugs.u-m.o
[00:54] <dutchie> and with that, i am going to bed
[00:54] <dutchie> i will be around friday (hungover) a little bit
[00:54] <dutchie> then away for a week sat-sat
[00:54] <humphreybc> blah
[00:54] <humphreybc> I've been avoiding doing that
[00:55] <humphreybc> creating forms in photoshop is time consuming
[00:55] <dutchie> maybe if you used the gimp...
[00:55] <humphreybc> daker: did you get the quickshot site?
[00:55] <dutchie> ok, bed now
[00:55] <dutchie> goodnight
[00:55] <humphreybc> dutchie: then it would be four times as time consuming
[00:55] <daker> euh did you sent something ?
[00:56] <humphreybc> daker: yes
[00:56] <humphreybc> to your email
[00:56] <daker> oki
[00:56] <humphreybc> the quickshot PSD
[00:56] <daker> kk
[00:57] <daker> received
[01:23] <h00k> someone said me
[01:23] <h00k> Yeah, I'm a Member
[01:26] <humphreybc> does anyone know how to get the RSS feed from my blog just for a certain tag?
[01:26] <humphreybc> I'm adding my blog to planet ubuntu
[01:27] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/category/ubuntu/
[01:27] <humphreybc> want to add that category
[01:27] <humphreybc> I just need an rss link for it
[01:28] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/category/ubuntu/feed/ maybe?
[01:29] <godbyk>  humphreybc: looks like that works.
[01:29] <humphreybc> okay
[01:29] <humphreybc> I can have a look at other peoples things too
[01:31] <humphreybc> yeah
[01:31] <humphreybc> that should work
[09:05] <jenkins> o/
[09:11] <thorwil> \o
[09:15] <jenkins>  collaboration meeting on saturday 10th 8pm utc, if you are coming please add yourself to the list. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting , you can also add agenda items there.
[09:34] <thorwil> a bit late for me and i doubt i would have anything to add ... you guys will get it right :)
[10:46] <jenkins> If everyone can add the pros and cons for docbook or mallard as the content pool http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/prosandcons
[11:02] <c7p> hey thorwil, are you around ?
[11:06] <c7p> do anyone know what's tha paper size of the manual ?
[11:06] <jenkins> c7p: it depends on the language
[11:06] <c7p> let's say for the English manual
[11:07] <jenkins> I *think* english us is us letter, english  uk is a4 letter
[11:08] <c7p> ok thx :)
[11:10] <jenkins> np
[11:14] <c7p> jenkins: when do you go on camping ?
[11:14] <c7p> go camping*
[11:14] <jenkins> I have been c7p it was fun :) . I was very tired
[11:14] <c7p> :p oh cool, but you where almost every time online
[11:15] <jenkins> I went on friday lucnh time and came back sunday evening
[11:15] <jenkins> only a short camp really close by
[11:16] <c7p> nice :)
[11:17] <c7p> so I can make the thread that i was talking about
[11:18] <jenkins> yea sure thing
[11:35] <thorwil> c7p: now i am. i will have to adjust the page size of lulu_el once godbyk can give me the dimensions. that also means that the page count must be known
[11:40] <c7p> the standard paper size in Greece is A4
[11:40] <c7p> so i guess a4
[11:42] <thorwil> c7p: lulu's approximation of that, yes
[11:58] <jenkins> dutchie: ping
[11:59] <jenkins> if I have a variable called "res"  which is res = "'disper', '-c', '-r', '1024x768'" , how do i use subprocess.Popen to open it? I have tried subprocess.Popen([str(res)]) and subprocess.Popen([res]) but they don't work. Any suggestions?
[11:59] <jenkins> nisshh: ping ^
[12:16] <nisshh> jenkins: woah, sorry i didnt expect anyone to ping right now
[12:16] <jenkins> nisshh: no worries
[12:16] <nisshh> jenkins: hmm, i dunno, im not that good with python, can you explain a bit more
[12:17] <nisshh> jenkins: can you pastebin your code?
[12:17] <jenkins> basicaly depending on on someones graphics card the command used to change the resolution is assigned to a variable. That variable in the example is res
[12:18] <nisshh> yea
[12:18] <nisshh> this is for quickshot im guessing?
[12:19] <jenkins> normally i would do subprocess.Popen(['disper', '-c', '-r', '1024x768'"]) but I need it to be the variable in the middle there. yes for quickshot, just sorting out a pastebin
[12:19] <nisshh> jenkins: iv got to go eat dinner, but ill be back a bit later, ill help you out then if i can
[12:19] <jenkins> ok cool see you later
[12:19] <nisshh> cya
[12:23] <jenkins> example http://paste.ubuntu.com/460592/ gedit hello works for everyone hence I have used that instead
[12:31] <jenkins> basically I need subprocess to open the gopen variable
[12:36] <nisshh> jenkins: so, what does that code do?
[12:37] <jenkins> it should do the command "gedit open" like you would in a bash shell
[12:37] <nisshh> ah, so it sort of executes shell commands, through python?
[12:38] <jenkins> if you do import subprocess; subprocess.Popen(['gedit', 'hello']) thats what I am trying to do but with variables. yep shell commands through python
[12:38] <nisshh> right
[12:43] <nisshh> jenkins: whats wrong with the code you first tried, from what iv experimented with it should work
[12:43] <jenkins> what code?
[12:43] <nisshh> jenkins: 18:59:16 < jenkins> if I have a variable called "res"  which is res = "'disper', '-c', '-r', '1024x768'" , how do i use subprocess.Popen to open it? I have tried  subprocess.Popen([str(res)]) and subprocess.Popen([res]) but they don't work. Any suggestions?
[12:43] <nisshh> THAT^^^
[12:43] <nisshh> code
[12:44] <jenkins>  does not work for me in my pastebin example
[12:45] <nisshh> jenkins: 1 sec ill brb
[12:51] <nisshh> jenkins: does it spit out an error? or something else?
[12:54] <jenkins> nisshh: the error is http://paste.ubuntu.com/460600/ and the file is http://paste.ubuntu.com/460601/
[12:56] <nisshh> jenkins: remove the 'hello' part and just try gedit on its own
[12:58] <jenkins> ok gedit works but all the commands have several parts to them
[12:58] <nisshh> jenkins: right, maybe remove the space after the comma, i dont think that will matter but yea, and remove the str maybe
[12:59] <nisshh> jenkins: what you want to do is cut the code down to minimum and add bits on until it errors again
[12:59] <nisshh> then you will be able to solve each error in turn
[13:02] <jenkins> I have just worked out that I can use os.system() instead of subproecss, there is a differnce between the two I will have to work out what it is
[13:03] <nisshh> jenkins: ok, no probs
[13:04] <jenkins> thanks nisshh, not sure why but I think subprocess is better, so it would be good if it would work
[13:04] <godbyk-android> Put [] around the rhs of the gopen line
[13:05] <godbyk-android> Then pass gopen to popen without [] or str.
[13:06] <jenkins> so like this? subprocess.Popen([gopen])
[13:09] <godbyk-android> Remove the []
[13:10] <jenkins> that did not help is this right? gopen = "'gedit', 'hello'"
[13:11] <godbyk-android> and put them around the gopen = ["blah", "blah"] line
[13:11] <godbyk-android> (sorry. On my phone. Typing is slow.)
[13:11] <jenkins> thanks godbyk-android it works now
[13:12] <godbyk-android> No problem
[13:13] <godbyk-android> It appears that I woke up for a 7 am irc meeting that's not happening.
[13:13] <godbyk-android> :-(
[13:14] <thorwil> godbyk-android: would you feel better to just hold the meeting with me?
[13:21] <jenkins> i hope that the meeting on sat is able to happen, we need people from all teams to come
[13:32] <godbyk> jenkins: I'll be there (I hope).
[13:33] <godbyk> Well, since I'm awake, I guess I'll take a shower and find some breakfast.
[13:33] <godbyk> be back in a bit.
[13:50] <ChrisWoollard> Afternoon All.
[13:52] <jenkins> hello ChrisWoollard
[13:52] <ChrisWoollard> Obviously it is quiet at this time of day
[13:52] <ChrisWoollard> Hello Jenkins
[13:52] <ChrisWoollard> Jenkins. Are you in England?
[13:52] <jenkins> ChrisWoollard: I am indeed
[13:53] <ChrisWoollard> Where in the country?
[13:53] <jenkins> banbury
[13:53] <jenkins> north of oxford
[13:54] <ChrisWoollard> I was thinking of the nursery rhyme
[13:54] <jenkins> yep, there is now a bronze horse in banbury because of the nursery rhyme
[13:55] <ChrisWoollard> Are you a student or do you work :)
[13:55] <jenkins> I am a student,
[13:56] <ChrisWoollard> I am in London myself (and work).
[13:57] <jenkins> I will be working from august, as I am on placement
[13:57] <ChrisWoollard> That's good.
[13:57] <jenkins> yea it will be fun, just not as much time to hang out on irc :P
[13:57] <ChrisWoollard> At my workplace we have had quite a lot of work placement students/
[13:58] <ChrisWoollard> The decent ones now actually have proper jobs with us.
[13:59] <jenkins> thats what I am hoping to get a job with them after my degree
[14:00] <ChrisWoollard> What
[14:01] <ChrisWoollard> Sorry. pressed enter by mistake.
[14:01] <ChrisWoollard> Do you know what you have to do yet?
[14:01] <jenkins> not exactly, I know i am working on gas engines that are used for power generation. Big engines!
[14:02] <ChrisWoollard> Ok. That sounds interesting.
[14:02] <jenkins> they are the size of small cars and weigh 7-10 tons
[14:02] <ChrisWoollard> What are you studying? I assumed computer science or something. But now I am not sure.
[14:03] <jenkins> Mechanical engineering
[14:04] <ChrisWoollard> Nice
[14:05] <jenkins> I would like to do some computer since stuff but i find programming lessons boring, we had one on matlab it sucked.
[14:05] <ChrisWoollard> I have no idea what matlab is?
[14:06] <jenkins> its for doing engineering/practical math calculations, with nice graphs
[14:07] <ChrisWoollard> Ok. Sounds a bit complicated.
[14:09]  * jenkins goes to water the garden
[14:09] <ChrisWoollard> laters
[14:09] <jenkins> later
[15:01]  * jenkins is doing a better job at watering himself than the garden
[15:42] <flan> jenkins, for reference, I usually become available for random questions at the start of the current hour.
[15:44] <jenkins> ok thanks flan
[17:24] <jenkins> collaboration meeting on saturday 10th 8pm utc, if you are coming please add yourself to the list. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/collaborationmeeting , you can also add agenda items there. If everyone can add the pros and cons for docbook or mallard as the content pool http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/prosandcons
[17:25] <nisshh> jenkins: your like an icecream van advertising with a megaphone :)
[17:44] <jenkins> nisshh: thats the idea :)
[17:44] <jenkins> bbl
[18:52] <jenkins> hello again
[19:20] <daker> hi
[19:22] <zkriesse> hello daker
[19:22] <daker> qs website will available next week
[19:22] <daker> be*
[21:40] <godbyk> Hey, c7p. In the .tex file you emailed me yesterday, there's a bug.  Search for '\dasho' and replace it with '\dash '  (i.e., remove the o or put a space between \dash and the o).
[21:42] <c7p> godbyk: ok fixed
[21:43] <godbyk> thanks.
[21:44] <godbyk> c7p: I've just uploaded a copy of the PDF to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-el.pdf if you'd like to check it over.
[21:44] <godbyk> Let me know of any bugs you find.
[21:44] <godbyk> I *think* the glossary page numbers are correct now, but could you double-check for me?
[21:45] <godbyk> Feel free to leave any notes here.
[21:45] <godbyk> I'll be back in a bit.  I need to read a couple book chapters.
[21:46] <c7p> ok i am not sure if i can stay for long today, cause i go to wake up early tomorrow, but tomorrow we will do whatever you want
[21:46] <c7p> but will try :)
[21:49] <Guest42801> the revision number and date need to take care, and i think the glossary problem still affects some linke (page 131 shoud be 132)
[21:49] <Guest42801> the index worls fine though :D
[21:49] <Guest42801> *works
[21:51] <c7p> yap the pg 131 ref bug still exists
[21:52] <c7p> and pg 28 (maximize)
[21:56] <Guest42801> and the two blank pages before the index are still there
[22:02] <c7p> so here we have the todo list : http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/3sIwez7O8A
[22:19] <c7p> godbyk g2g cu tomorrow, insult Guest42801 (topo) if he is around, in case there is something that have to be done
[22:20] <c7p> night/morning/evening all
[22:39] <jenkins> flan: I think humphreybc is going to buy www.quickshot.org
[22:49] <jenkins> I wonder how many hits we will get :P It will be harder to get to the top of google
[22:50] <jenkins> I am excited to see the site in all its glory
[23:02] <jenkins> has and e-mail subjected  "8/7/2010......REMINDER......REPLY ASAP....."   hit anyone's spam box today? it is bcc'd so I don't know if it was sent to a mailing list or not. It claims the e-mail sent to them may be spam.


[12:31] <minghua> siretart: if I want to get reviewer priviledge on REVU, are you the right person to ask?
[12:34] <siretart> minghua: yes. tell me your login id
[12:35] <minghua> siretart<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:37] <siretart> minghua: try reviewing now
[12:42] <bddebian> Heya gang
[12:42] <Erlang> lo
[12:43] <minghua> siretart: forgot to bring my gpg key with me :-(  will test as soon as possible, thanks!
[12:43] <minghua> hi bddebian
[12:43] <bddebian> Hello Erlang, minghua
[12:43] <siretart> minghua: you should be able to comment on any upload now
[12:45] <minghua> siretart: good, that's all I need.  I'll test later.
[12:48] <hub> what's wrong with upstream no willing to check for a required library in configure?
[12:59] <siretart> hub: they have no clue or interest? ;)
[01:00] <hub> that is what I think
[01:01] <hub> https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?func=detailitem&item_id=16159
[01:01] <hub> I'm packaging this library to get sflphone after
[01:01] <hub> (a friend of mine work on sflphone)
[02:11] <minghua> welcome back LaserJock :-)
[02:12] <ajmitch> hi
[02:12] <minghua> hi ajmitch
[02:16] <LaserJock> hi minghua and ajmitch
[02:16] <raphink> hi ajmitch minghua LaserJock
[02:17] <LaserJock> hi raphink ;-)
[02:17] <raphink> :)
[02:17] <raphink> I get 19000 karma today
[02:17] <raphink> I had 500 yesterday
[02:17] <ajmitch> raphink: it got adjusted :)
[02:17] <LaserJock> 12177 for me, woot!
[02:17] <raphink> ajmitch hehe nice :)
[02:18] <raphink> well it's just fair that devs get more karma than translators ;)
[02:18] <Erlang> I went from 94 to 3400 something yesterday.
[02:18] <ajmitch> 65765 now :)
[02:18] <raphink> specs give the most karma
[02:18] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:18] <ajmitch> and you can write specs on your own products :)
[02:18] <raphink> riddell got up to 111k
[02:18] <raphink> with lots of specs
[02:18] <raphink> ajmitch hehe ;)
[02:18] <LaserJock> "to infinity and beyond!"
[02:18] <raphink> at least it's logical
[02:18] <ajmitch> raphink: one of the top 5 has about 15 specs on some product he works on
[02:18] <raphink> you won't think a translator is "more active" than a core-dev anymore ;)
[02:19] <raphink> hehe
[02:19] <Erlang> I just started triaging like 2 weeks ago.  I didn't know triaging was that valuable.
[02:19] <ajmitch> especially as karma has some value for ubuntu affiliates & partners now..
[02:19] <raphink> Erlang: it wasn't, so far
[02:19] <ajmitch> raphink: still no karma for uploads though
[02:20] <raphink> ajmitch that will come, hopefully
[02:20] <LaserJock> ajmitch: no? that stinks
[02:20] <raphink> there should be karma for package maintenance and uploads
[02:20] <raphink> and more karma for main packages
[02:20] <raphink> obviously
[02:20] <ajmitch> " Launchpad Activity
[02:20] <ajmitch>
[02:20] <ajmitch> 5 points for each full time employee in the top 100 Launchpad users at the time application is made."
[02:20] <ajmitch> for the ubuntu partners programme
[02:20] <Erlang> I need some advice on bug: 32159.  It look important to me.
[02:20] <minghua> yeah there have been karma inflation recently :-)
[02:21] <ajmitch> raphink: there'd also be karma for branch commits once we switch to hct, too
[02:21] <ajmitch> so that not only the uploader gets karma
[02:21] <raphink> good :)
[02:21] <raphink> at least it's good to have a nice karma :)
[02:21] <ajmitch> why should I get huge karma for sponsoring 100 uploads, for example?
[02:22] <raphink> somehow it was frustrating to keep having a karma under 1000
[02:22] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:22] <ajmitch> my karma did get over 2K with the old numbers
[02:22] <raphink> nice :)
[02:22] <raphink> mine was at 500 currently
[02:23] <LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a URL that describes how much karma for each activity
[02:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: nope, they don't want to encourage people doing things just for karma points ;)
[02:24] <raphink> hehe
[02:24] <raphink> that's safe
[02:25] <ajmitch> so I encourage people to just keep bug fixing & uploading :)
[02:25] <ajmitch> we have a large pile of bugs
[02:26] <ajmitch> and a growing number of complaining users who don't like their bugs being ignored :)
[02:26] <ajmitch> malone doesn't help sometimes..
[02:26] <raphink> it's not useful
[02:26] <raphink> the search functions are not very good so far
[02:27] <ajmitch> s/not very good/often horrible/
[02:27] <raphink> yes indeed
[02:30] <ajmitch> raphink: caught up on the KDE upload backlog?
[02:30] <raphink> how do you mean?
[02:30] <ajmitch> wasn't there a large pile of KDE fixes to get uploaded?
[02:31] <ajmitch> and you wanted into main so you could help out, and keep the pile down?
[02:31] <raphink> hmm not right now
[02:31] <raphink> I wanted into main to be able to apply fixes directly and sponsor uploads if needed
[02:31] <raphink> to help out
[02:31] <raphink> ;)
[02:31] <ajmitch> right
[02:31] <raphink> I did a few fixes last week
[02:31] <raphink> on k3b, systemsettings and others
[02:32] <raphink> saved time to riddell for sure as I could just fix them and upload
[02:34] <ajmitch> hi hub
[02:35] <ajmitch> hm, how many people know the rules we agreed on for fixing/patching debian packages for dapper?
[02:36] <ajmitch> eg not adding dpatch, not making gratuitous changes?
[02:36] <raphink> it's stated clearly on the wiki iirc
[02:36] <ajmitch> sure, but is it clear enough?
[02:37] <raphink> not sure
[02:37] <hub> ajmitch: I don't know the rules, but I usually do common sense
[02:37] <ajmitch> there's a few fixes assigned to motureviewers, we'd want to check them
[02:37] <ajmitch> hub: sure
[02:37] <hub> ajmitch: is it easy to become debian developer?
[02:37] <ajmitch> we got a few complaints from debian for adding dpatch, etc
[02:37] <ajmitch> hub: it's long & painful :)
[02:37] <hub> :-/
[02:38] <raphink> yeah :(
[02:38] <hub> 'cause otherwise I would just package there and sync in universe
[02:38] <raphink> even ian murdock is still waiting
[02:38] <raphink> LOL
[02:38] <hub> LOL
[02:38] <raphink> not kidding
[02:38] <raphink> he's in the list
[02:38] <raphink> not done with the NM process
[02:38] <ajmitch> hub: average wait just to get an AM assigned is around 6 months at the moment
[02:39] <hub> AM?
[02:39] <ajmitch> application manager
[02:39] <hub> ah
[02:39] <raphink> hub: https://nm.debian.org/nmlist.php
[02:39] <ajmitch> who sends you questions, reviews what you do, etc
[02:39] <hub> so I just should forget
[02:39] <ajmitch> (s)he files a report for the front desk
[02:39] <raphink> hub: see how many people you know in this list ;)
[02:39] <hub> it is more the cathedral than the bazaar
[02:39] <ajmitch> who approves & then passes it onto the debian account manager for processing :)
[02:40] <ajmitch> all this may take > 1 year on average
[02:40] <raphink> yet there are some awful packages in Debian ...
[02:40] <ajmitch> sure
[02:40] <raphink> it seems to me that the awful packages are not from DDs themselves
[02:40] <raphink> but rather DDs sponsoring bad packages
[02:40] <raphink> without reviewing well enough
[02:40] <raphink> so it's a lack of review from DDs on other contributors' work
[02:41] <raphink> more than a bad work from DDs themselves
[02:41] <raphink> or so it seems to me
[02:42] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:42] <ajmitch> DDs aren't perfect ;)
[02:42] <raphink> of course :)
[02:42] <bddebian> They aren't?
[02:42] <crimsun> no, only bddebian is.
[02:42] <raphink> I'd like my reviewing guide to be read by some DDs, improved and spread
[02:42] <raphink> lol
[02:43] <crimsun> ow.
[02:43] <raphink> ouch
[02:43] <ajmitch> bddebian: play nice
[02:43] <hub> raphink: I wonder if I shouldn't sit and write a complete Debian Packager Guide
[02:43] <ajmitch> complete?
[02:43] <bddebian> ajmitch: Oh sure, don't make him be nice to me.. :-)
[02:43] <hub> ajmitch:600pages
[02:43] <ajmitch> do you have 10 years?
[02:43] <raphink> hub: LaserJock is doing it
[02:43] <raphink> for ubuntu
[02:43] <hub> raphink: oh
[02:44] <raphink> hub: if you want to help just talk to him
[02:44] <hub> raphink: ok
[02:44] <LaserJock> sorry, I was writing an email
[02:44] <hub> I still have to schedule time
[02:44] <raphink> ajmitch: indeed
[02:44] <hub> LaserJock: it is OK
[02:44] <hub> maybe I should just write code
[02:44] <LaserJock> hub: right now, what I've got is at doc.ubuntu.com
[02:45] <hub> LaserJock: ok
[02:45] <LaserJock> hub: you are certainly welcome to contribute :-)
[02:45] <hub> I was more thinking "for hardcopy printing"
[02:45] <LaserJock> hub: in fact right now it is just me and I have a deadline
[02:45] <hub> LaserJock: oh
[02:45] <LaserJock> hub: it is also shipped on the cds
[02:45] <LaserJock> hub: it is a part of the ubuntu-docs package
[02:45] <LaserJock> hub: you can view it in the Gnome or KDE help
[02:46] <LaserJock> although the KDE version is quite old I think
[02:46] <hub> and in devhelp? :-)
[02:47] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[02:47] <hub> could be usefull
[02:47] <hub> and not hard to do
[02:47] <LaserJock> although I just got all the ubuntu docs into the doc-base registry
[02:47] <hub> I'll investigate
[02:47] <LaserJock> do you can view it with dwww or doc-central
[02:48] <raphink> hub: a hardcopy printing would be nice... but how many people would buy that?
[02:48] <hub> raphink: not sure. that is more "the publisher business"
[02:48] <crimsun> I would, but I'm a corner case. I really dislike reading from a screen.
[02:48] <hub> worst case scenario it would just be online
[02:48] <hub> crimsun: I would too
[02:48] <raphink> crimsun: same here
[02:48] <raphink> hmm sure
[02:48] <LaserJock> same here
[02:49] <hub> in fact I have to much book to move in less than 2 month
[02:49] <hub> *sigh*
[02:49] <raphink> I think a publisher most likely would refuse publishing this
[02:49] <ajmitch> I wouldn't, but that's because I'm unlikely to spend money on a packaging guide
[02:49] <raphink> but it's worth writing
[02:49] <ajmitch> certainly worth writing
[02:49] <hub> raphink: O'Reilly or No Starch comes to mind
[02:49] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I'd *read*. I'm not committing to buying  ;-)
[02:49] <raphink> sure hub
[02:49] <hub> but that is not the problem
[02:49] <BrianG> can anyone here "pull in a new package" of BitTornado 0.3.15 so that it can be included into Breezy backports?
[02:49] <hub> would be refused, I would put it online
[02:50] <BrianG> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2006-March/000760.html
[02:50] <raphink> it can even be a book under Documentation GPL as "dive into python" with an online version and a printed one
[02:50] <crimsun> BrianG: we're way past upstream version freeze (UVF); you'd need to write a UVF exception
[02:50] <BrianG> i dont write things, i just ubuntu
[02:50] <crimsun> and because it's in main, the hurdle is much higher
[02:50] <BrianG> use*
[02:50] <BrianG> heh
[02:51] <softwarecommie> I just joined this channel; are you talking about documentation for packaging?
[02:51] <LaserJock> softwarecommie: yeah, somewhat
[02:52] <raphink> softwarecommie: currently, yes
[02:52] <softwarecommie> ok
[02:53] <raphink> ok well
[02:53] <BrianG> crimsun: how do i write a UVF? is that like some kind of form letter?
[02:53] <raphink> I'll head to bed
[02:53] <raphink> bye
[02:53] <crimsun> bye raphink
[02:53] <LaserJock> cya raphink
[02:54] <BrianG> UVF exception rather
[02:56] <crimsun> BrianG: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html
[02:56] <hub> to reply to raphink, who is gone, the ultimate goal would be to get it under both licenses
[02:57] <BrianG> crimsun: thanks
[02:57] <crimsun> BrianG: note that it's a main package, not a universe package.
[02:58] <BrianG> tell that to John Dong :)
[02:58] <crimsun> who's requesting it, he or you?
[02:58] <BrianG> what does that mean? i'm just basicly trying to use the new version of BitTornado
[02:58] <BrianG> me, but he sent me to MOTU
[02:59] <BrianG> do i have to be able to make the package myself in order to request a UVF exception?
[02:59] <crimsun> incorrect workflow
[03:00] <crimsun> no, but it sure helps if there is a Ubuntu package of it already
[03:00] <BrianG> ah
[03:00] <BrianG> so i'm totally in limbo and not really sure what i'm doing
[03:00] <BrianG> should i go and report a bug?
[03:01] <Amaranth> it's probably too late to get a new bittornado into dapper
[03:01] <Amaranth> so it can't go into backports either
[03:01] <crimsun> BrianG: yes, file a bug, but be aware that you're dealing with a main package
[03:01] <BrianG> so i'm barred from the tracker i use untill October?
[03:01] <crimsun> barred? no one's barred
[03:02] <BrianG> what's that mean.. a main package?
[03:02] <BrianG> well i am from the tracker..
[03:02] <BrianG> they refuse any old versions of bittornado
[03:02] <crimsun> we (MOTU) only handle universe and multiverse packages
[03:02] <BrianG> okay
[03:02] <crimsun> (a few of us have main upload rights, but that's a small fraction)
[03:03] <crimsun> the process for requesting a UVF exception differs slightly between main and universe/multiverse packages
[03:03] <BrianG> so i shouldn't have been sent to MOTU in the first place, right?
[03:03] <BrianG> being that it's a main package
[03:03] <crimsun> you've seen the directions for the latter. For the former, you still need the information, but you have to ask one of the core devs (mdz iirc)
[03:04] <crimsun> right, you were misdirected (hence, "incorrect workflow")
[03:04] <BrianG> thanks for the information
[03:07] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[03:07] <minghua> hi LaserJock and everyone
[03:08] <crimsun> 'lo minghua
[03:08] <yves> hi
[03:09] <LaserJock> minghua: do you use KDE at all?
[03:10] <minghua> LaserJock: not really.  all my KDE usage is for testing scim
[03:10] <LaserJock> ok fine
[03:30] <softwarecommie> does anyone here know of something I may be able to work on or where I can go to find something?
[03:31] <crimsun> softwarecommie: we have thousands of bugs awaiting your triage skills in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[03:34] <softwarecommie> looks good, thanks
[03:48] <Kyral> ....I hate GCC 4 right now
[04:09] <nictuku> could someone please review 2176 in REVU?
[04:11] <crimsun> it's native?
[04:12] <nictuku> ubuntu native, you mean?
[04:12] <nictuku> it's a universe candidate-candidate
[04:12] <crimsun> or debian-native, irrelevant, really
[04:12] <crimsun> but is it from upstream or your own made-for-{Debian,Ubuntu} package?
[04:13] <nictuku> I am upstream and debianized it
[04:13] <crimsun> are you _positive_ you want -X in the version, then?
[04:14] <crimsun> normally if it's native, you'd make it 0.3, not 0.3-1
[04:14] <nictuku> hmm I'll read about that in the policy then
[04:14] <nictuku> thank you
[04:15] <crimsun> also, change the target distribution
[04:15] <crimsun> [unless you're packaging specifically for Debian Sid and want to sync it over]
[04:16] <nictuku> ok
[04:16] <crimsun> don't build-dep on build-essential
[04:16] <minghua> nictuku: I find that both debian/control.in and debian/control exist
[04:17] <nictuku> doesn't control.in creates control everytime by cdbs?
[04:17] <minghua> nictuku: are you sure that's desired (I don't know anything about cdbs)?
[04:17] <crimsun> yes, and if cdbs is adding build-essential, that's /nasty/
[04:17] <nictuku> I guess I did
[04:18] <crimsun> years in copyright(s) == good
[04:18] <crimsun> looks ok for a cursory glance aside from those
[04:19] <nictuku> ah, btw,  if I use ${python:Depends}, it gets my default python for its dependency - python2.4. But the software is supposedly agnostic. Is there any problem to use manual values there?
[04:20] <nictuku> crimsun, years in copyright, you mean in debian/copyright or in the source files?
[04:20] <crimsun> both.
[04:20] <crimsun> notes added
[04:21] <minghua> it's good to talk to upstream directly, huh? :-)
[04:23] <crimsun> minghua: absolutely :)
[04:23] <nictuku> I'll abuse of your helpfulness and send some other packages I need reviewing too hehe
[04:27] <nictuku> https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/pycacic/ticket/16
[04:27] <crimsun> minghua: your suggestion of 1.1+revertedto+1.0.2 is fine
[04:27] <crimsun> RE: wesnoth
[04:29] <nictuku> what release should I use now? "dapper" ?
[04:29] <crimsun> nictuku: yes
[04:29] <crimsun> granted, there's always something akin to: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics           0.14.3+seriouslythistime-0ubuntu3
[04:29] <minghua> crimsun: okay, thanks.  not really my suggestion though (the OP's)
[04:31] <nictuku> crimsun, is it wrong, as mingua believes, to have both debian/control and debian/control.in in a cdbs package?
[04:31] <nictuku> *minghua
[04:32] <minghua> nictuku: I am just speculating :-)  as I've said I don't know anything aboug cdbs at all
[04:33] <crimsun> nictuku: it's not wrong per se, but it's certainly a bit cluttered
[04:33] <nictuku> yes, sorry, I got your point.
[04:34] <nictuku> strange thing is debian/rules clean does not delete debian/control, as I would expect
[04:36] <crimsun> clean::
[04:36] <crimsun>    rm -rf debian/control
[04:36] <crimsun> s/-rf/-f/
[04:36] <nictuku> how does universe updates work? will it only accept security updates when dapper is released?
[04:37] <crimsun> nictuku: essentially.
[04:37] <nictuku> hmm will do
[04:38] <minghua> security + critical bug fix (data loss, for example), I suppose
[04:38] <crimsun> yep
[04:38] <minghua> we have dapper-security _and_ dapper-updates after all
[04:41] <nictuku> clean:: rm -r debian/control is bad. dpkg-buildpackage does a clean *after* creating debian/control :-). I'll have to pick a better time for that
[04:42] <LaserJock> minghua: did you happen to read ubuntu-science today?
[04:43] <ajmitch> nictuku: why would you even consider removing it? :)
[04:43] <crimsun> nictuku: then use pre-clean
[04:43] <minghua> LaserJock: yes, actually just 20 minutes ago, and was admiring your persistence on the education/science issue :-)
[04:44] <LaserJock> minghua: lol, I'm starting to wonder if I'm totally out of my mind :-)
[04:44] <crimsun> of course you are, just like every grad student is/has been
[04:44] <LaserJock> well, at least I'm not alone
[04:44] <minghua> LaserJock: no you are not.  in principle I agree with you
[04:45] <nictuku> ajmitch, well the guys here made my mind about that. it's useless to distribute debian/control if you ahve debian/control.in
[04:45] <crimsun> nictuku: it's not useless, no
[04:45] <minghua> LaserJock: I just don't think it's worth discussing in detail before we really have the choice
[04:46] <LaserJock> minghua: well, it all got started because seb128 said he wouldn't add a Science menu until there were enough apps to populate it
[04:46] <nictuku> crimsun, that was my personal conclusion from what you guys tried to say, and I got it wrong again.. :-)
[04:46] <crimsun> nictuku: not wrong, just be careful with choosing extremes
[04:47] <ajmitch> nictuku: my personal opinion, shared by many, is that debian/control should never be rewritten automatically at build time
[04:47] <minghua> LaserJock: hmm, now I remeber you've told me that.  what happens if we have a .desktop with only Science, but not Education?
[04:47] <minghua> LaserJock: it will end up in menu "Others"?
[04:47] <LaserJock> minghua: usually it goes to Other :(
[04:48] <LaserJock> minghua: but I really hate having to put Education on a non-educational app just to get it out of Other
[04:48] <minghua> LaserJock: in that case I am on your side, Other is better than Education for research-only apps
[04:48] <nictuku> ajmitch, I should then make it static and stop cdbs from re-creating it. All changes I must make after that will go to debian/control... right?!
[04:49] <ajmitch> nictuku: that's one option
[04:49] <nictuku> it's prettier IMO
[04:49] <ajmitch> or you can use control.in, but only update it when you want to
[04:49] <ajmitch> which I don't like myself :)
[04:49] <LaserJock> minghua: and eventually if there are enough apps in Other than I can really have a case to ask seb128 for a Science menu and it would be quite trivial to do since the .desktop files would be in place
[04:49] <nictuku> DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_DEBIAN_CONTROL := yes           s/yes/no/ :-)
[04:50] <ajmitch> nictuku: yeah, that's evil stuff there
[04:50] <nictuku> I've even read that was not recommended, but I forgot it there
[04:51] <minghua> LaserJock: exactly.  and a long Other menu has more pressure than a long Education menu ;-)
[04:51] <minghua> nictuku: does that auto-update-debian/control rewrite the Build-Depends: line as well?
[04:52] <ajmitch> minghua: it will if @cdbs@ is used
[04:52] <LaserJock> does the 2nd item of http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html have any baring on the debian/control issue?
[04:53] <nictuku> yes, replacing @cdbs@ for garbage, including "build-essential"
[04:53] <minghua> ajmitch, nictuku:  Hmm, I remember it's explicitly forbidden in Debian, let me check
[04:54] <nictuku> I've remove that as you guys recommended, anyway. And I agree it's really bad
[04:54] <nictuku> *removed
[04:55] <ajmitch> minghua: it is :)
[05:00] <minghua> ajmitch: good to be confirmed.  but I can't seem to find the reference :-(
[05:07] <minghua> the firefox in dapper (which used pango) is pretty broken for me
[05:13] <Se7h> hi
[05:13] <Se7h> LaserJock im with a 'litle' problem here
[05:16] <LaserJock> what's up Se7h
[05:17] <nictuku> sorry if I'm cluttering the revu notification mailing-list with my buggy and frequent dput's..
[05:18] <Se7h> LaserJock i've been unable to build this python library, cus it seems that after 'building X in ...'
[05:18] <G0SUB> minghua: which language?
[05:18] <Se7h> it wont find the python-dev files
[05:19] <Se7h> must be some 'trick i dont know
[05:19] <Se7h> lol
[05:19] <minghua> G0SUB: sorry, what are you refering to?  firefox?
[05:19] <nictuku> should I really mention nmu in my packages?
[05:19] <LaserJock> nictuku: not if it is for Ubuntu
[05:20] <minghua> nictuku: lintian warning?  just ignore it
[05:20] <nictuku> in a native package, I mean
[05:20] <nictuku> ok
[05:20] <G0SUB> minghua: yeah, firefox
[05:21] <LaserJock> Se7h: is python-dev a build-dep?
[05:21] <minghua> G0SUB: no, it doesn't has much to do with language, just slow rendering, jerky response, unusually small fonts, etc.
[05:21] <G0SUB> oh!
[05:22] <minghua> and all these go away if I use MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1
[05:24] <LaserJock> if you have remove non-free parts of a original tarball should you rename the package .dfsg. ?
[05:25] <Se7h> LaserJock a build-dep? how so ?
[05:25] <minghua> LaserJock: some rename the package name, some rename the version number, I don't think I've seen a consensus
[05:26] <LaserJock> Se7h: is it in the build dependencies of the source package?
[05:26] <LaserJock> minghua: but dfsg is the way to go?
[05:27] <minghua> LaserJock: well, maybe not, but dfsg definitely catches eyes, so that's probably the reason I see them :-P
[05:27] <Se7h> LaserJock oh right...forgot that part
[05:27] <Se7h> lol
[05:27] <minghua> LaserJock: I'm quite sure there are changes like from foo_1.2.3 to foo_1.2.3a
[05:27] <LaserJock> I'm just wondering if I should suggest it in the packaging guide
[05:28] <minghua> LaserJock: ask on #ubuntu-devel, perhaps?
[05:28] <minghua> it's even worth a mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>IMO
[05:28] <minghua> (if said package is not in debian, that is)
[05:29] <nictuku> I think REVU 2178 fixed all problems minghua and crimsun noticed in pycacic. thanks!
[05:30] <minghua> nictuku: what is the pycacic/control file for?
[05:31] <nictuku> oops
[05:31] <Se7h> LaserJock it was just that dumb me :p
[05:32] <nictuku> minghua, ornament :-)
[05:32] <nictuku> (fixed)
[05:33] <LaserJock> Se7h: well, hopefully it will work now
[05:35] <minghua> nictuku: you have the old FSF address in debian/copyright, but that's a minor issue
[05:35] <minghua> nictuku: I am not qualified to review python package though, so I can only check these cosmetic issues
[05:35] <nictuku> I really appreciate your help
[05:42] <nictuku> hmm Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301  USA
[05:49] <nictuku> for x in $(find .); do ~/fsf.sh $x;done  :-)
[05:52] <minghua> hi jaldhar
[05:58] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[05:58] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
[06:01] <ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
[06:01] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[06:36] <Se7h> LaserJock
[06:36] <Se7h> cp: omitting directory `examples/data'
[06:36] <Se7h> make: *** [install]  Error 1
[06:36] <Se7h> is that 'omitting' considered an error ?
[06:39] <nictuku> considered by what?
[06:39] <nictuku> "cp" will not return an error code, if that's what you ask
[06:40] <nictuku> it's a warning since cp didn't receive the -r parameter
[06:40] <Se7h> well yea, so why is it giving me an error  on pbuilder?
[06:40] <nictuku> and tried to cp a directory
[06:40] <nictuku> is it the only element being copied?
[06:41] <Se7h> no
[06:41] <Se7h> but everything else works fine
[06:41] <nictuku> indeed
[06:41] <nictuku> it does return an error code
[06:41] <nictuku> code 1
[06:44] <yves> I've just dput nwu to revu:2182
[06:44] <Se7h> nwu ?
[06:45] <yves> nwu is being written as request by a postponed spec for dapper
[06:45] <yves> could somone please take a look?
[06:46] <yves> it's a somewhat complex package - it took me and MarioMeyer many days of work
[06:47] <Se7h> whats nwu ?
[06:48] <yves> Network wide updates for systems which use APT.
[06:48] <yves> https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu/wiki
[06:50] <Se7h> haum, looks nice
[06:51] <yves> thanks
[09:47] <dholbach> good morning
[09:59] <fabo> hi dholbach
[09:59] <fabo> robitaille: i replied about vtiger on the ML
[09:59] <dholbach> hey fabo
[10:02] <robitaille> fabo:  thanks.
[10:53] <phanatic> hi people
[11:14] <phanatic> hi people
[11:17] <Tm_T> moin
[11:18] <phanatic> hi Tm_T
[11:18] <Tm_T> no idea what I should do to Kopete package ;(
[11:18] <Tm_T> phanatic: hi
[11:41] <verwilst> hellow!
[11:41] <phanatic> hi verwilst
[11:41] <verwilst> if anybody has time to update pure-ftpd to the one in debian ( .21 ), i would be very grateful :d
[11:41] <verwilst> ( managers starting to nag :p )
[11:42] <verwilst> the uvf exception has been approved
[11:42] <verwilst> but i'm not a motu
[11:42] <verwilst> so i can't upload it myself :(
[11:42] <dholbach> verwilst: which bug was it
[11:42] <dholbach> verwilst: sorry, I didn't come around to do it yesterday and forgot
[11:42] <verwilst> hehe no problem :d
[11:42] <verwilst> euh
[11:42] <verwilst> lemme check
[11:43] <verwilst> 34346
[11:43] <dholbach> righto
[11:43] <dholbach> i'll do it now
[11:43] <verwilst> dholbach, cool, i owe you a beer ;)
[11:43] <verwilst> we have 1 apache server running here on dapper
[11:43] <verwilst> and customers have some probs with ftp ;)
[11:43] <dholbach> verwilst: nevermind... you did good work on it - so thank YOU!
[11:43] <verwilst> which will be fixed as soon as .21 is in dapper :)
[11:44] <verwilst> hehe np ;)
[11:46] <verwilst> we all benefit ;)
[11:47] <dholbach> i'll run a quick build through pbuilder to check
[11:47] <verwilst> yip
[11:47] <verwilst> doesn't take long to compile
[11:48] <dholbach> (only if you have abiword building in the meantime on the same box :-p)
[11:48] <verwilst> :p
[11:48] <verwilst> i've noticed network-manager 0.6.1 got into dapper
[11:48] <verwilst> sweetness
[11:48] <verwilst> dapper will rule so much :$
[11:49] <dholbach> and even more if you guys all show up on next friday's HUG DAY :)
[11:49] <verwilst> next friday?
[11:49] <verwilst> what time?
[11:49] <dholbach> yep
[11:49] <dholbach> all day
[11:49] <verwilst> oh
[11:49] <verwilst> i think i could help out a but
[11:49] <verwilst> bit
[11:49] <verwilst> ( hug or bug day? :p )
[11:49] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
[11:50] <verwilst> lol dholbach, freudian slip? :p
[11:50] <dholbach> "...in Ubuntu land every day is a hug day, but some hug days are special, they are bug days too..."
[11:50] <verwilst> heh :p
[11:50] <verwilst> damned hippies
[11:50] <verwilst> :d
[11:51] <phanatic> verwilst: lol :)
[11:51] <dholbach> pfffft
[11:51] <ajmitch> with flowers in his hair... ;)
[11:52] <dholbach> that's the spirit
[11:52] <verwilst> :)
[11:55] <dholbach> ajmitch: good thinking
[11:55] <ajmitch> dholbach: plus I want to see how fast this box can build ;)
[11:55] <phanatic> hi raphink
[11:55] <raphink> hi phanatic
[12:00] <dholbach> verwilst: uploaded
[12:13] <Toadstool> hi motus
[12:14] <ajmitch> hi
[12:23] <ajmitch> great, found 1 simple rebuild already
[12:29] <verwilst> dholbach, thanks a lot dude
[12:29] <verwilst> dholbach, how long till the mirrors update?
[12:32] <azeem> y
[12:32] <azeem> oops
[12:32] <ajmitch> hi azeem
[12:32] <azeem> hi Andrew :)
[12:41] <verwilst> dholbach, 1.0.21-1build1?
[12:41] <verwilst> shouldn't it be -1ubuntu1?
[12:41] <verwilst> :)
[12:50] <ajmitch> verwilst: not if it's taken without change from debian
[12:50] <verwilst> oh
[12:50] <verwilst> didn't know that :)
[12:51] <ajmitch> eg apt-rpm is uninstallable & can be fixed (if anyone actually cares ;) ) by a simple rebuild - so I'd upload with the only change being a changelog entry with build1 appended
[12:53] <ogra> initially the idea of -XbuildX was a different one, but sice autosyncing doesnt work in launchpad yet, we abuse it for syncs like that
[12:53] <ajmitch> ewblib currently underway..
[01:10] <ajmitch> azeem: interesting, ghemical doesn't build on AMD64?
[01:11] <ajmitch> ah, already reported in debian
[01:18] <azeem> ajmitch: yeah :(
[01:18] <azeem> I tried to take a look at it last week, but couldn't figure that C++ 64bit stuff out
[02:06] <TheMuso> dholbach: ping
[02:06] <dholbach> TheMuso: pong
[02:16] <Toadstool> ajmitch, azeem: about ghemical and amd64, there are 3 casts to change if you want it to build on amd64, 2 in src/view.cpp and 1 in src/camera.cpp
[02:16] <azeem> Toadstool: do you have a patch?
[02:16] <azeem> I couldn't figure out the last one
[02:17] <Toadstool> not yet but I can make one quickly
[02:17] <azeem> that would rock
[02:17] <Toadstool> 2 seconds then :)
[02:17] <azeem> Toadstool: can you mail the Debian and/or Ubuntu bug?  (I think there's a Malone bug filed as well)
[02:17] <azeem> I'm off now
[02:17] <Toadstool> ok
[02:17] <azeem> cheers, ta
[02:46] <siretart> Mez: around?
[02:51] <siretart> sorry, just a test
[02:51] <Toadstool> azeem: bug 36421
[02:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36421 in ghemical "ghemical FTBFS on amd64" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36421
[03:41] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:19] <siretart> crimsun: around?
[04:49] <siretart> crimsun: unping
[04:52] <bddebian> Heh
[04:53] <bddebian> Hey folks, anymore word about getting \sh some cashola?  I got an e-mail asking for my e-mail but haven't heard any more?
[04:58] <lucas> can I sync ruby-pkg-tools ? it's a small package used by the debian ruby team, but ruby packages depend on it
[05:00] <truz24> who is \sh?
[05:01] <bddebian> truz24: Stephan Hermann
[05:20] <Erlang> JDE has been NMUed in Debian to fix 4841.  Does that require a sync from Debian or I can just apply the NMU patch and upload to REVU?
[05:28] <bmonty> Erlang: if it is just a patch we can sync it from debian
[05:30] <Erlang> it's a few dozen line.
[05:31] <Erlang> it's reported as a major bug, is there any way I can indicate that it need to sync?
[05:32] <bmonty> we can do a "fakesync" of it...i.e. get the debian package, update the changelog for dapper, make sure that it builds on dapper and upload it
[05:33] <bmonty> if you want to make a debdiff of the updated package, I'll take a look at it
[05:34] <Erlang> will do
[05:34] <ogra> dont forget to merge ubuntu and debian changelogs ;)
[05:35] <bmonty> Erlang: also use -v<last ubuntu version> when you build the source package
[05:36] <Erlang> ogra: got an example?
[05:37] <bmonty> Erlang: see changelog for flashplugin-nonfree
[05:37] <bmonty> or do a search on dapper-changes for "fakesync"
[05:39] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
[05:39] <ogra> it has a section about the changelogs
[05:41] <Erlang> thank you.  I'll read that.
[05:42] <ogra> dpkg-genchanges -s -v<version> -sa is your friend as well :)
[05:43] <ogra> just make sure the changelog entries from the former ubuntu package dont get lost, you can even do it manually :)
[05:48] <bmonty> ogra: I think you have to bring in the old ubuntu changelog entries manually
[05:48] <bmonty> or is there a better way?
[05:51] <ogra> bmonty, the above :) its described in all the MOM reports
[05:51] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/gnubiff/REPORT
[05:51] <ogra> for example
[05:52] <ogra> the genchanges should merge the changelogs
[05:55] <bmonty> ogra: ok, that is essentially how I do merges :)
[05:55] <ogra> good :)
[05:56] <ogra> but you can as well just move the last ubuntu changelog over and add the missing entries from the debian changelog ... its nearly no work
[05:56] <ogra> usually there are not many versions during 6 months :)
[05:58] <bmonty> ogra: I thought from your comment above that there was maybe some automated way to merge the changelogs I didn't know about
[05:59] <ogra> the dpkg-genchanges command described in the report, yes
[06:32] <slomo_> bmonty: hi... FYI, there are some UVF exceptions from you that need some additional informations
[06:32] <bmonty> slomo_: hmm, ok I'll look...I thought I had handled them all
[06:33] <slomo_> bmonty: https://launchpad.net/people/motu-uvf/+assignedbugs
[06:36] <Erlang> bmonty: Okay I've got the debdiff.  Shall I append as a patch to 4841 ?
[06:59] <bmonty> Erlang: yeah, please add the debdiff to the bug
[06:59] <Erlang> ok
[07:03] <Erlang> done.
[07:05] <bmonty> Erlang: I gotta go out for awhile, but I'll check it later this afternoon
[07:06] <Erlang> thank you.  take your time.
[07:15] <bmonty> Erlang: did you make this debdiff against the latest debian package?
[07:23] <bmonty> Erlang: I can't apply your debdiff against the 2.3.5-1.1 version of the debian package, did you use the debian package as the base for your debdiff?
[07:31] <Erlang> I've applied the patch from the BTS on the Ubuntu package.
[07:40] <Erlang> It's me that have to go now.  If the patch doesn't work leave it there and I'll redo it 'by the book' this afternoon.
[09:20] <Erlang> bmonty: are you there?
[10:05] <dolson> WHOA. my karma just jumped from ~250 to over 8000 in one day, WTF?
[10:10] <Gloubiboulga> dolson, I've read that working on bugs gives you more karma now
[10:10] <dolson> ah
[10:10] <LaserJock> dolson: karma was, umm, reworked
[10:10] <dolson> that's a LOT more karma
[10:16] <Erlang> yes karma was substancially reworked dolson.  some people are over 100k now.
[10:18] <Lure> Erlang: much more than 100k: https://launchpad.net/people/seb128 ;-)
[10:19] <Erlang> oh my
[10:19] <Erlang> does anybody here have time to explain me what is wrong with a diff I've made for JDE?
[10:23] <Erlang> ok. :D
[10:23] <LaserJock> wher is yhe diff?\
[10:24] <Erlang> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/jde/+bug/4841
[10:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4841 in jde "(dapper) jde 2.3.5-1 fails to install" [Major,Confirmed]
[10:25] <Erlang> I've took the Debian NMU and applied it on the Ubuntu package.  bmonty was onto it but I had to leave.
[10:27] <LaserJock> Erlang: when you want a sync it is better to diff against the version you are wanting to sync
[10:28] <LaserJock> Erlang: and "should fix" isn't as encouraging as "fixes" ;-)
[10:30] <Erlang> ok I think I understand now.
[10:31] <Erlang> no, actually, I don't.
[10:33] <Erlang> LaserJock: anyway, is the patch appliable/acceptable? If not I'll simply redo-it By The Book.  I'm here to learn.
[10:36] <LaserJock> Erlang: I'd just take the Debian source and add your changelog entry (the version should be build1 not ubuntu1) and then build the source and debdiff
[10:37] <Erlang> okay.
[10:39] <Erlang> why build1 in this case?
[10:40] <Toadstool> good night here
[10:42] <LaserJock> Erlang: -Xbuild1 version I think is a lower version than -X so it will be automatically overridden for Dapper+1, or something to that effect anyway
[10:43] <sladen> Erlang: probably because syncs are broken
[10:43] <LaserJock> Erlang: if you do Xubuntu1 then it is a higher version than X
[10:43] <Erlang> That makes sense.
[10:47] <Erlang> got the new diff.
[10:57] <Erlang> ok, I've got a patch, but since this package has no Ubuntu-specific change to merge back, it's only my name and comments in the changelog... that sounds totally useless to put on Malone.
[11:01] <LaserJock> well, that is why usually a MOTU does that since it is sort of trivial
[11:01] <LaserJock> but it is useful to know that it builds in a current dapper pbuilder
[11:02] <Erlang> LaserJock: I guess that's why nobody was that enthusiastic when I said I wanted to patch earlier...
[11:03] <LaserJock> well, somebody has to figure out that we need a sync and that it works ok without any additional patches
[11:05] <Erlang> Is it bad, in any way, for me, for example, to build the package myself and make it available through a link on the BTS?
[11:07] <LaserJock> Erlang: what do you mean?
[11:08] <LaserJock> the package is in Debian, right? and we just need to fakesync it in Ubuntu, right?
[11:08] <Erlang> yes.
[11:11] <Erlang> ..ooo nvm
[11:18] <LaserJock> CarlFK: heah, did you get your pbuilder to work and everything?
[11:24] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[11:34] <minghua> hi LaserJock
[11:35] <minghua> LaserJock: we seems to have many .desktop bugs now :-)
[11:35] <LaserJock> yep
[11:35] <zyga> minghua: .desktop bugs?
[11:36] <minghua> zyga: wishlist bugs that add .desktop file to packages that don't have one
[11:36] <zyga> oh
[11:36] <zyga> I can help you
[11:36] <zyga> I always hate when that happens
[11:36] <zyga> and I whish I could add such .desktop files
[11:37] <minghua> zyga: great.  please look at https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+assignedbugs
[11:38] <zyga> minghua: can I just assign one bug to myself?
[11:38] <zyga> oh some have desktop files attached
[11:39] <minghua> zyga: I would prefer you just add a comment saying you are working on it
[11:39] <zyga> okay
[11:39] <minghua> zyga: and I believe all of them have .desktop file attached
[11:39] <zyga> so how can I work on them? make debdiffs that add those desktop files?
[11:40] <LaserJock> but we need to make sure that they are valid , etc.
[11:40] <zyga> okay I'll just pick one up, add a comment and try to verify it
[11:41] <minghua> yeah, basically the work is reviewing, building and testing, uploading.
[11:41] <minghua> zyga: can you upload to universe?
[11:41] <zyga> minghua: no
[11:41] <zyga> not yet unfortunatly
[11:42] <zyga> I lost my key some time ago and I did not managed to get my new key signed
[11:42] <minghua> zyga: then a verified debdiff would be good
[11:47] <zyga> can I add [pl]  translations to the desktop files?
[11:50] <minghua> zyga: sure, feel free
[11:51] <zyga> minghua: should I sign my debdiffs?
[11:51] <minghua> not necessary IMO
[11:52] <minghua> debdiffs are supposed to be reviewd
[11:52] <minghua> reviewed*
[11:52] <zyga> okay
[11:53] <zyga> okay I'm almost done with one package, should I confirm it and attach a debdiff to the bug report?
[11:54] <minghua> zyga: did you do the building (in pbuilder) and testing?
[11:55] <zyga> minghua: I did the build (not in pbuilder, I did do testing)
[11:55] <zyga> I assume the dependencies are the same
[11:55] <minghua> zyga: okay, attach the debdiff and say that you've built and tested in the comments
[11:55] <zyga> okay
[11:56] <minghua> zyga: I don't see much point of confirming it, but it definitely won't hurt


[07:44] <knightwise> good morning
[08:14] <zxmpi> o/
[08:31] <knightwise> heyhey
[08:31] <knightwise> finally got the old iMac i had lying around working again
[08:31] <knightwise> 27 inch display :) installed ubuntu on it
[08:31] <knightwise> its over 10 years old but with an SSD still runs like a charm
[08:32] <knightwise> just had to install the macfan package to keep the fans down
[08:39] <zxmpi> neat. how slow is ubuntu on it?
[08:40] <zxmpi> might a lighter distro be faster, more practical?
[08:40] <zxmpi> i hate seeing old hardware being dumped but there is a level below which it's no longer practical to be a daily driver
[09:05] <knightwise> its actually quite fast
[09:05] <knightwise> even those older dual cores still pull their weight
[09:06] <zxmpi> yeah, i give mac some flak for using old hardware but they do optimise their hardware very well to make a good overall system
[09:08] <knightwise> very true
[09:08] <knightwise> I even have an older snowbook lying around still running the latest buntu
[09:08] <knightwise> pop in an SSD, boost the ram and there you go
[09:09] <zxmpi> side bonus is that kids see them as a status symbol and care for them a bit better than random laptop. have seen macboos survive many students years in college whereas a hp/dell/acer barely lasts a year
[09:10] <knightwise> the macbooks we use here are for professional use and those babies LAST
[09:11] <knightwise> atm my little pi is grabbing some youtube mixes i need for livestreams.
[09:11] <knightwise> Got Tmux open on it, 6 windows happily chugging away
[09:12] <zxmpi> pis are the exception to the ancient hardware rule. small runs on sniff of leccy. you can always find a use for an ancient one that works
[09:12] <knightwise> the only pc brand that keeps on giving has got to be Lenovo Thinkpads
[09:13] <zxmpi> i think the framework laptops might bump them from their #1 pedestal
[09:14] <zxmpi> will have to see how long the company AND the laptops last
[09:16] <knightwise> brand ?
[09:22] <zxmpi> https://frame.work/laptop
[14:03] <daftykins> core 2 duos aren't enough imo, got an old lemon one here (iMac) CPU runs about 70 degrees idle, hah
[14:04] <daftykins> in fact i am keen to get rid as i will likely get offered a much newer one soon, they're about only useful for creating macOS boot media, though i often do that from a VM
[14:52] <zxmpi> probably when winter is over :-P