[03:07] <jbicha> duflu: hi
[03:08] <jbicha> I was pretty sure Caribou suffered from LP: #1698515 but I hadn't spent the time to verify that
[03:09] <jbicha> I think we'd be a lot better off with Onboard, but note that 1) Onboard doesn't work in Wayland yet and 2) is dependant on caribou in some parts of the UI
[03:09] <duflu> jbicha: Yeah but Caribou and the Shell OSK are separate, mostly, right?
[03:09] <jbicha> you can try caribou by install gnoem-shell-extension-caribou and enabling the extension
[03:09] <duflu> I have tried it. It's not the same thing though
[03:10] <jbicha> duflu: The Shell screen keyboard *is* caribou
[03:10] <duflu> Really? I thought Caribou was the little popup keyboard only
[03:10] <jbicha> caribou has been undermaintained for years in GNOME
[03:11] <jbicha> Caribou is the popup Shell screen keyboard
[03:12] <jbicha> I think GNOME would be better off switching to Onboard but it would take a bunch of work to integrate it well
[03:12] <duflu> I swear when I tested it, Caribou was a different keyboard (tiny) and wasn't the shell keyboard (full screen width)
[03:12] <jbicha> Caribou is just too minimal
[03:12] <jbicha> there's 2 versions of Caribou: the one built into Shell and one that can run standalone in a different desktop
[03:13] <duflu> jbicha: Regardless, I think working with upstream Gnome would be best. I don't have confidence in onboard even after a few years
[03:13] <jbicha> I think caribou-antler is the standlone one?
[03:13] <jbicha> part of Onboard's problem is that they are not GNOME
[03:14] <jbicha> if GNOME were to decide to work with Onboard then I don't think it would take long for Onboard to work in Wayland
[03:14] <duflu> Onboard is not reliable at rendering the correct size or correct proportions. So I would not endorse it without upstream integration work
[03:14] <jbicha> and I think Onboard could handle the system dialogs (like Activities Overview, unlock prompts)
[03:15] <jbicha> I think Caribou's keyboard doesn't support more than a few languages
[03:16] <jbicha> and I think Caribou will be worse for accessibility
[03:32] <duflu> jbicha: Despite the bugs, I prefer what Gnome Shell is doing right now. :)
[03:40] <jbicha> ok
[05:43] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
[06:51] <didrocks> good morning
[06:56] <jibel> morning
[07:15] <duflu> Hello, oSoMoN, didrocks, jibel
[07:41] <willcooke> morning all
[07:43] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:00] <duflu> willcooke: morning
[08:00] <willcooke> afternoon duflu
[08:03] <duflu> willcooke, libinput 1.7 sounds interesting. I think we should get it in artful. Although 1.8 is coming soon too
[08:04] <Laney> AH MAN
[08:05] <duflu> HI LANEY
[08:07] <Laney> looks like my VPS done got rebooted
[08:07] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:07] <seb128> hey duflu willcooke Laney
[08:07] <duflu> Hey seb128
[08:07] <Laney> hi duflu hi seb128
[08:07] <Laney> you good?
[08:07] <seb128> duflu, what's new in libinput 1.7?
[08:07] <didrocks> re/hey guys ;)
[08:07] <Laney> haha
[08:07] <Laney> down to business
[08:07] <duflu> seb128, https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017-March/033531.html
[08:08] <seb128> Laney, a bit tired but good! w.e was busy here, friends over for dinner on friday and sunday evenings and some other friends came for coffee on saturday
[08:08] <seb128> and election day yesterday
[08:08] <Laney> coffee
[08:08] <Laney> you dutch!
[08:08] <seb128> and almost 30°C which is too much
[08:08] <seb128> lol
[08:08] <seb128> tea, right? :p
[08:08] <seb128> Laney, how was your w.e?
[08:09] <Laney> good, went down to see family for my dad's birthday & fathers day
[08:09] <Laney> was over 30 at some points
[08:09] <Laney> and hey didrocks, how's it going?
[08:09] <seb128> nice weather for a bbq!
[08:10] <seb128> going to be less fun sitting at the computer today
[08:10] <Laney> indeed
[08:10] <seb128> duflu, indeed, nice update, I'm pretty sure we are going to get it in artful, it's still early in the cycle
[08:11] <duflu> seb128: Assuming the ABI is well maintained. Should be easy
[08:11] <didrocks> Laney: very good, thanks! deep into session swapping ;) Weather was great, still at my parent's to a couple of days.  I think I just resolved the #1 bluez bug as Invalid
[10:09]  * duflu runs away before proven otherwise
[10:11] <didrocks> andyrock: yes, artful
[10:13] <andyrock> didrocks: are you sure it's not just a random failures
[10:14] <didrocks> andyrock: it failed on all archs
[10:14] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions/+packages
[10:14] <didrocks> that would be quite a concidence, dont' you think?
[10:14] <didrocks> don't*
[10:14] <didrocks> I can try a rerun on like amd64 if you want
[10:16] <seb128> didrocks, it's weird, we got an upload which built in artful 10 days ago
[10:17] <seb128> neither compiz nor cmake changed since
[10:17] <didrocks> yeah, that's why I'm puzzled
[10:18] <didrocks> the diff is just metadata, so not related to the changes themselves
[10:18] <didrocks> failed again: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/324566872/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-amd64.unity_7.5.0+17.10.20170619-0ubuntu1~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[10:18] <didrocks> seb128: this is why I'm asking andyrock :)
[10:18] <andyrock> did we push a new cmake or something like that?
[10:19] <didrocks> oh, version in proposed is != from version in release
[10:20] <didrocks> (for cmake)
[10:20] <didrocks> let me try to enable proposed in the ppa
[10:22] <andyrock> but that's quite old
[10:24] <didrocks> ok, build starts with -proposed enabled in the ppa
[10:24] <seb128> tjaalton, hey, is libinput 1.7 an upload you are looking at?
[10:24] <andyrock> didrocks: did you push to trunk directly?
[10:24]  * didrocks gives back on all archs
[10:24] <didrocks> andyrock: yes, it's in trunk, but not released (as it's in the ppa)
[10:25] <didrocks> ok, remaining archs building in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions/
[10:26] <seb128> didrocks, seems to work now?
[10:27] <didrocks> seb128: see backlog ^
[10:27] <seb128> didrocks, ?
[10:27] <seb128> I saw the backlog
[10:27] <didrocks> maybe was unclear "build starts" was opposed to "fails at configure"
[10:27] <seb128> I was just saying that the build-with-proposed seems to go past the previous issue
[10:27] <seb128> oh ok
[10:27] <didrocks> :)
[10:27] <seb128> I though you were saying that launchpad was picking up builds
[10:28] <didrocks> yeah, got it after your "?" :)
[10:28] <didrocks> I bet it's this cmake update blocked in proposed
[10:30] <andyrock> didrocks: but why it did not fail one week ago?
[10:30] <andyrock> is bileto building with proposed?
[10:30] <didrocks> andyrock: if it didn't change since the train, yeah, it's supposed to mirror the archive config by building with proposed
[10:40] <seb128> the build log at least shows that unity was built using the cmake version in proposed
[10:47] <ogra> hrm ... since the latest firefox upgrade my FF hangs pretty frequently
[10:47] <ogra> (on 16.04 that is)
[11:14] <tjaalton> seb128: yes, I'll update it soon
[11:15] <seb128> tjaalton, great, thanks
[12:48] <jbicha> jibel: Ubuntu's not going to participate in next week's Alpha 1 then?
[13:04] <Trevinho> any desktop dev... when this is britney approved, please publish it https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2822
[13:08] <seb128> good morning Trevinho
[13:08] <Trevinho> hi seb128
[13:08] <jibel> jbicha, no
[13:10] <jbicha> jibel: what do you think of checkbox still being installed by default? it pulls in a lot of QML deps
[13:11] <jbicha> maybe 50+ MB installed?
[13:14] <jibel> jbicha, it's used for certification I think, I'll ask them.
[13:15] <jbicha> thanks
[13:17] <jbicha> seb128: I've been saving up some questions for you :)
[13:17] <seb128> hey jbicha :-)
[13:18] <jbicha> some people were complaining on the forums about gnome-shell suddently becoming untranslated (its first build after being promoted to main)
[13:19] <jbicha> what do you think about doing an artful langage pack earlier this cycle because of that?
[13:20] <seb128> +1 for me
[13:21] <jbicha> Do LP language coordinators have to manually approve the upstream translations? Or do we get them for free?
[13:27] <seb128> what do you mean by upstream translations?
[13:27] <seb128> the ones coming from the .po shipped with the source are autoimported
[13:27] <seb128> no approval needed
[13:28] <jbicha> I feel like there's a lot I still don't understand about LP translations so that's why I was asking :)
[13:28] <willcooke> desktoppers - duplicate posts to the desktop mailing list are being looked at.  I think I know where they are coming from, but not why yet.  If I dont get a response I'll block the email address and see if that helps.
[13:29] <jbicha> Should ~ubuntu-core-dev be part of ~indicator-applet-developers and ~unity-team ?
[13:33] <seb128> jbicha, that would make sense I guess? unsure if that hadn't been done for a reason, like email spam or something
[13:34] <Laney> probably the upstream teams wanted to review changes going in
[13:34] <Laney> but that's not so relevant now :(
[13:34] <didrocks> yeah, IIRC, that was the discussions
[13:34] <didrocks> separations of concerns
[13:34] <didrocks> but that was before debian/ dir was in upstream tree
[13:35] <jbicha> I emailed charles late Friday about ~indicator-applet-developers
[13:36] <Laney> core-dev has been invited
[13:36] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers according to this page
[13:36] <Laney> someone on the DMB could accept that
[13:37] <didrocks> sil2100: mind doing it ^
[13:37] <sil2100> Looking
[13:37] <Laney> ♥
[13:39] <sil2100> Laney, didrocks: done!
[13:40] <didrocks> thanks sil2100 :)
[13:40] <sil2100> yw ;)
[13:40] <jbicha> didrocks: are you going to have unity-session as a binary package from the Unity source?
[13:40] <sil2100> I wonder if the pspmteam for product strategy is still a 'thing'?
[13:41] <kenvandine> sil2100, probably not, but not sure
[13:41] <didrocks> jbicha: no, it's going to be from gnome-session package for now (as it was there before and all our patches are there)
[13:41] <jbicha> didrocks: I'd rather that not be in maintained inside gnome-session
[13:41] <didrocks> we can see and move it to unity source later on
[13:41] <didrocks> but for now, let's keep it simple, there are a lot of moving pieces already
[13:41] <didrocks> but yeah, nothing against moving it later on :)
[13:43] <jbicha> I think it makes gnome-session *more* complicated to patch it instead of just shipping plain session files in the right package, but maybe later :)
[13:44] <didrocks> it doesn't: look at the diff, but yeah, later will makes sense and it's easy enough once all the transition is done
[13:45] <jbicha> seb128: can you look into the desktop version tracker? it stopped updating a few weeks ago
[13:45] <didrocks> sil2100: sorry again, I invited ~ubuntu-core-dev to ~unity-team as well.
[13:45] <sil2100> didrocks: on it!
[13:45] <didrocks> thx man :)
[13:46] <sil2100> didrocks: done again ;) Feel free to poke me if any other places need that, it's just a button press so I can do that anytime
[13:46]  * Laney breaks all things all the time
[13:47] <didrocks> sil2100: there probably will be, thanks! :)
[13:47] <didrocks> Laney: like what?
[13:47] <Laney> hmm, let me think
[13:47] <Laney> not enough easter eggs in unity
[13:48] <didrocks> don't know if G-S has any btw, if there are less than unity, it's a critical bug!
[13:49] <seb128> jbicha, let me have a look to versions
[13:51] <jbicha> didrocks: I think we're missing a dependency… https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/28957
[13:51] <jbicha> I'll let you handle the MIR ;)
[14:01] <didrocks> jbicha: ahah, I'll surely autoapprove all the things for the easter egg :p
[14:01] <didrocks> especially for wanda
[14:21] <Laney> I just got a weird sense that I was looking down a hole into my computer
[14:22] <Laney> something to do with the black top bar and the colours of the website I was on
[14:22] <Laney> ...or a brain injury...
[14:24] <didrocks> sounds like an interesting website!
[14:25] <Laney> bugzilla.gnome.org!
[14:25] <Laney> actually that is quite hole-like
[14:26] <didrocks> haha
[14:59] <Trevinho> Laney: could you publish https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2822 ?
[14:59] <Laney> sure
[15:25] <Trevinho> ta
[15:41] <jackpot51> So, we at System76 are looking at using GNOME Initial Setup instead of Ubiquity OEM mode for OEM installs
[15:41] <jackpot51> We feel it has better integration with the rest of the GNOME experience
[15:42] <jackpot51> I am implementing encrypted home support in accountsservice, and I would like to allow the password strength to be overridden by the user, if desired
[15:42] <jackpot51> How does this sound?
[15:45] <tyhicks> jackpot51: hi - to make sure that I understand, you're wanting to allow the user to enter a weak password?
[15:46] <jbicha> tyhicks: I think ubiquity already does that?
[15:46] <tyhicks> jbicha: I'm not certain about that
[15:46] <jbicha> let me test today's daily and check :)
[15:46] <seb128> jbicha, the fact that ubiquity does it or not doesn't change the question?
[15:47] <jbicha> I think that gnome-initial-setup's password check (should be the same as gnome-control-center's) is stricter than ubiquity's at least
[15:47] <jackpot51> Anaconda lets you click the next button twice
[15:47] <seb128> ubiquity hints about the password strength but doesn't prevent you using a weak one
[15:47] <jbicha> and it would be nice for them to match anyway
[15:47] <jackpot51> Yeah, gnome is super duper strict
[15:47] <seb128> g-c-c/u-c-c do prevent you using a weak one
[15:48] <jackpot51> I remember that, I had to use passwd for a temporary user
[15:48] <jackpot51> We often set up lab machines with really simple passwords, so it is a nuisance
[15:48] <seb128> jackpot51, do you plan to work with us on that or just do it as a system76 specific change?
[15:48] <seb128> that = using gnome-initial-setup
[15:48] <jackpot51> Absolutely, I plan to work with you. I am building a patch for accountsservice that will add encrypted home
[15:49] <seb128> great
[15:49] <seb128> do you have user testing of both?
[15:49] <jackpot51> I made ubiquity skip the account setup by removing the ubi-usersetup plugin, then it booted straight into gnome initial setup
[15:49] <jbicha> for context, I have some instructions to try out Initial Setup's new user mode at LP: #1673453
[15:49] <seb128> and how do they compare feature wise?
[15:50] <jbicha> (that was before the big GNOME announcement and I had not thought of ubiquity oem-mode when I opened that bug)
[15:50] <jackpot51> They are nearly feature identical
[15:50] <tyhicks> jackpot51: from a security standpoint, protecting the mount key with a weak passphrase is really a waste of CPU cycles
[15:50] <jackpot51> The only missing thing is encrypted home
[15:51] <tyhicks> jackpot51: the wrapped-passphrase file, which contains the mount passphrase that's then wrapped with the login passphrase, is the weak link in home dir encryption
[15:51] <jackpot51> Timezone, keyboard setup, network setup, and user account setup from ubiquity are handled by Initial Setup
[15:51] <jackpot51> tyhicks, I would expect users selecting encrypted home to use a strong password, but it would be up to them how to set up their computer
[15:51] <tyhicks> jackpot51: if an attacker can easily brute-force the login passphrase, then you're wasting your time doing encryption
[15:52] <tyhicks> jackpot51: I agree - however, the weak password warning should be very clear about this because most users will not understand the consequences
[15:53] <seb128> jackpot51, so you plan to strip down ubiquity ?
[15:53] <seb128> I think those plans should be discussed on ubuntu-devel]
[15:53] <seb128> @
[15:53] <seb128> with rational
[15:54] <seb128> they are probably something we might to want to look at for Ubuntu itself, but having people driving the discussion with us would be useful otherwise it feels like people are just too busy and nobody is going to drive forward
[15:54] <jackpot51> tyhicks, I don't think you understand. I want to make two *independent* changes to Initial Setup:
[15:54] <jackpot51> 1 - allow the user to use any password they like. Pop up a dialog forcing confirmation for weaker passwords
[15:54] <jackpot51> 2 - allow the selection of encrypted home on the account setup page
[15:54] <isantop> tyhicks: The real problem with encrypted home and weak/no passwords is poor security, not CPU cycles
[15:54] <jbicha> jackpot51: do you intend to push all Ubuntu users through Initial Setup's new user mode, or just for OEMs?
[15:54] <isantop> Which can be mitigated with a good warning about weak passwords
[15:54] <jackpot51> Yes, jbicha, I think both can go through Initial Setup
[15:55] <jbicha> jackpot51: have you tested an ISO with ubiquity changed to do that yet?
[15:55] <tyhicks> isantop: yes, I know that. I was saying that it is a waste of time to encrypt your data with a key that's persistently stored with a weak wrapping passphrase.
[15:55] <jackpot51> Yeah, I have one I have been testing
[15:56] <isantop> tyhicks: Not more of a waste than using a strong password
[15:57] <tyhicks> isantop: I don't understand what you mean by that but we seem to be arguing for the same thing
[15:57] <jackpot51> jbicha: Basically, take the ubuntu gnome ISO. `rm /usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-usersetup.py` in the squashfs
[15:57] <jackpot51> Then it will take you straight from the installer to initial setup on the first reboot
[15:57] <jackpot51> I think the same thing would work with the 17.10 ISO
[15:58] <jackpot51> I did not have as much success skipping the timezone or consolesetup plugins
[15:58] <jbicha> oh that sounds easier than my method :)
[15:58] <jackpot51> But I am sure I could figure it out ;)
[15:58] <tyhicks> jackpot51: note that I'm looking into moving home directory encryption from eCryptfs over to use ext4 encryption but I'm still in the early stages of that
[15:58] <jackpot51> tyhicks: That is good to know. Will it still use `adduser --encrypt-home` ?
[15:59] <tyhicks> jackpot51: yes, adduser will be updated to do the right thing
[15:59] <tyhicks> jackpot51: are you solely relying on adduser to handle the setup of the encrypted home?
[16:00] <jackpot51> Yes, gnome-initial-setup uses libaccountsservice, which uses adduser internally to do encrypted home. So my patch will add a boolean to add --encrypt-home to the adduser call
[16:01] <Laney> I'm off for a bit, see you later
[16:01] <jackpot51> Here it is, so far: https://pastebin.com/PKVF5DSp
[16:02] <jackpot51> And since I like gist better (no ads): https://gist.github.com/jackpot51/8e24f48ec97d26f9f49d0750a92bd8bc
[16:04] <tyhicks> jackpot51: great, it should be a transparent change from that standpoint
[16:05] <jackpot51> Sweet
[16:43] <seb128> k, time for dinner&co, I might read some backlog and deal with some emails later on
[16:43] <seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
[16:43] <kenvandine> you too seb128
[16:44] <seb128> jackpot51, in any case please start a discussion on ubuntu-devel@ on what changes you think would be improvements and why you think Ubuntu should follow that road
[16:44] <seb128> jackpot51, that would be the right way to get what you want and help Ubuntu at the same time :-)
[16:44] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[17:04] <kenvandine> sarnold, sorry to bug you, any update on the gdm MIR?
[17:07] <sarnold> kenvandine: no progress, last week was crazy. sorry.
[17:08] <kenvandine> sarnold, understood, i'll pester you again in a couple days :)
[17:15] <immu> so its GDM then?
[17:15] <immu> set in stone?
[17:15] <sarnold> kenvandine: thanks! :D
[17:15] <kenvandine> immu, yup
[17:37] <willcooke> night all
[17:41] <immu> oke then, how is the distro shapping up and how can i move from 17.04 to daily builds
[17:45] <jbicha> immu: 17.10 is still in early Alpha so you may want to try in a VM?
[17:46] <immu> ok
[17:46] <jbicha> daily builds are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[17:47] <jbicha> and you can upgrade from an older release with   update-manager -d
[17:48] <jibel> I use artful on my main machine, with gnome shell and X and it's quite stable.
[17:49] <ogra> but you are french :)
[17:50] <jibel> ogra, do you mean our definition of stability is less strict than the german one? :)
[17:51] <ogra> dunno, but you seem at least more brave than everyone else (seeing the election)
[17:51] <ogra> ;)
[17:51] <jibel> indeed :)
[17:52] <jibel> ogra, unlike you we don't keep a chancelor for 12 years ;)
[17:52] <ogra> well, we lack a proper replacement
[17:53] <ogra> at least we did ... schulz coould actually be a candidate for the first time in ages (though i dont think he will make it)
[17:53] <jibel> ogra, next target for Macron, chancelor of Europe ;P ... in a year
[17:53] <ogra> LOL
[19:23] <k_alam> Please look into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1698638


[02:00] <darkxst> berglh, so a pretty easy place to start would be syncing some debian packages for gnome3-staging
[02:00] <darkxst> take a look at http://phillw.net/ubuntu-gnome/utopic314.html
[02:01] <darkxst> look for packages in the Ubuntu Column that don't have "ubuntu" in the version number
[02:02] <darkxst> in this case you can just copy the debian package
[02:02] <darkxst> grab the debian source package (pull-debian-source)
[02:03] <darkxst> add a new changelog entry "copied from Debian", add "~utopic1" to the debian version
[02:04] <darkxst> then test build (sbuild) and upload to a ppa and we can copy them
[07:00] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Is there a script to sync all syncable package to the staging PPA?
[07:00] <Noskcaj> *packages
[07:01] <darkxst> No
[07:05] <darkxst> this is actually the first time debian has been ahead of us really, so it was never needed
[07:06] <Noskcaj> I guess the upcoming release really motivate them
[07:10] <Noskcaj> Would you be able to make it or should i try?
[07:10] <Noskcaj> Since i think the script would be pretty useful
[07:11] <Noskcaj> nvm, http://jeremy.bicha.net/2011/10/09/how-to-sync-packages-from-debian-to-your-ppa/
[07:26] <darkxst> Noskcaj, https://bug728319.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=286996 should be backported to utopic and trusty (see debiain changelog)
[07:30] <darkxst> there was a lp bug for that somewhere
[07:30] <darkxst> maybe under synaptic
[07:31] <darkxst> bug 1328586
[07:32] <Noskcaj> Is it too late for this to be just uploaded as a bugfix to utopic?
[07:34] <darkxst> actually only affects utopic
[07:35] <darkxst> probably too late to update to the debian package
[07:35] <darkxst> but not too late to backport patch into current package
[07:39] <Noskcaj> I'll have a merge up soon, need dinner first. Also, is 3.14.0-1~ubuntu14.10.1~utopic1 an ok version name for the ppa or do i need to try and patch backportpackage?
[07:40] <darkxst> that is crappy for a sync
[07:41] <darkxst> I already merged at-spi2-atk for ppa, but you can backport the patch to utopic
[08:06] <Noskcaj> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/utopic/at-spi2-atk/git-bugfix/+merge/238110
[08:59] <Noskcaj> darkxst, Can you reply to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1376452
[09:00] <Noskcaj> Laney acked it for the release team, just checking for docs team stuff
[09:54] <ricotz> darkxst, :\, please dont pocket copy things from utopic to trusty!
[09:54] <ricotz> do proper rebuilds with a new suffix
[09:55] <ricotz> this is really bad
[10:08] <ricotz> besides that we didnt agree on adding 3.14 bits to trusty
[10:09] <darkxst> ricotz, hmm right, that was silly
[10:09] <darkxst> though its only a few games that are 3.14
[10:14] <darkxst> and they all work fine with gtk 3.12
[10:17] <ricotz> dont get sloppy and preserve a sane upgrade path
[10:18] <ricotz> 3.14.1 might be a chance to fix those ~utopicX in trusty
[10:18] <ricotz> but of course there are conflicts now
[10:19] <darkxst> what If i bump the versions in gnome3, that should avoid conflicts?
[10:20] <ricotz> you need to bump the utopic builds
[10:20] <darkxst> yes that is what I meant
[10:21] <ricotz> i am keeping the trusty and utopic pockets added to my sources.list which should result in a consistent pool
[10:21] <ricotz> the most offending package is "gnome-color-manager - 3.12.2-1ubuntu1~utopic1"
[10:23] <ricotz> darkxst, some games are written in vala right?
[10:24] <ricotz> so they also benefit and might even require vala 0.26 which isnt intended to be available to trusty
[10:33] <darkxst> most are c, though a few might be vala
[10:43] <ricotz> ok
[13:10] <LinDol> hi all
[14:27] <Vault108> hello is any one here and able to help me
[19:46] <Noskcaj> darkxst, If something is in the gnome3 ppa, should an identical version be in gnome3-staging?
[20:00] <Noskcaj> Also, i've got a few more packages ready in my copy PPAs
[20:41] <darkxst> Noskcaj, no, gnome3 is a dependency for -staging
[20:42] <Noskcaj> ok, i'll just leave robots 3.14.1 in gnome3 then
[20:42] <Noskcaj> One other thing, do we want gnome-software or is the offline install bug too much?
[20:43] <darkxst> but 3.14 -staging packages should be based of gnome3 merges where they exist (probably keeping the 3.12 changelog entry)
[20:44] <darkxst> we do want gnome-software, offline updates can just be disabled
[20:44] <darkxst> however it requires a few other bits like packagekit, appstream-glib
[20:46] <darkxst> Noskcaj, can you delete the packages that are already copied
[20:46] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:50] <darkxst> Noskcaj, I synced cantarell to ubuntu (yesterday)
[20:50] <Noskcaj> ok, i missed that. sorry
[22:13] <darkxst> Noskcaj, probably best to keep the autoreconf in gnome-dictionary


[08:04] <chandraneelnr> well i have a dial-up modem. i have used scanmodem and configured the modem. But when i do sudo wvdial, it shows 'not a valid phone usrname and password'. Although the usrname etc. work well in windows and 8.04 but cannot do it in 8.10  In 8.04 there is an option for network configuration where one is supposed to enter details such as target number, username, password but no such option exits in 8.10
[08:51] <ottoshmidt> does your webcam work well on 8.10 intrepid?


[17:59] <Ubulette> [reed], is it just me of is middlemouse.paste=true no longer working with b4pre ?
[18:57] <Ubulette> asac, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=699416
[19:04] <Ubulette> http://beuno.com.ar/archives/51
[21:14] <armin76> Ubulette: asac: you guys enabled system hunspell?
[21:14] <armin76> btw it will fail with hunspell-1.2.2
[21:15] <armin76> !info hunspell
[21:15] <ubotu> hunspell (source: hunspell): spell checker and morphological analyzer (program). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.5-6 (gutsy), package size 68 kB, installed size 192 kB
[21:15] <Ubulette> i did in my own repository
[21:15] <armin76> !info hunspell hardy
[21:15] <armin76> useless bot :P
[21:15] <armin76> what version is in hardy? :)
[21:15] <ubotu> hunspell (source: hunspell): spell checker and morphological analyzer (program). In component main, is optional. Version 1.1.9-1 (hardy), package size 74 kB, installed size 200 kB
[21:15] <armin76> ah
[21:15] <armin76> so yeah, you won't have a problem
 [reed], is it just me of is middlemouse.paste=true no longer working with b4pre ?
[21:16] <Ubulette> armin76, what about you ? ^^
[21:17] <armin76> let me see
[21:17] <[reed]> hmm
[21:17] <Ubulette> I can't paste an url using middle click
[21:18] <armin76> it works for me
[21:18] <Ubulette> 3.0~b4~cvs20080215t1220
[21:18] <armin76> oh, i use b3 :P
[21:18] <Ubulette> yeah, b3 was ok
[22:39] <koolkat> What do the Mozilla Team do?
[22:40] <koolkat> Anyone?
[22:40] <koolkat> I guess not.....
[22:51] <cheguevara> ...
[22:54] <Ubulette> i guess the answer was obvious, mozilla stuff
[23:03] <Ubulette> hmm, in b4pre, Japanese is now anti-aliased, fine :)
[23:11] <Ubulette> well, not everywhere. strange
[23:27] <cheguevara> http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot5uz8.png :P
[23:40] <Ubulette> so you have icons now ?
[23:48] <cheguevara> i've had icons for time now
[23:48] <cheguevara> am showing off the kde 4 look :P
[23:53] <Ubulette> looks good


[12:19] <schweeb> howdy all
[12:26] <Nafallo> schweeb: hi :-)
[12:31] <lamont_r> clips needs xorg love
[12:32] <lamont_r> and elastic needs gcc-4.0 lovfe
[12:32] <lamont_r> as do entity and ferite
[12:32] <lamont_r> and zopex3
[12:34] <Nafallo> and kismet :-)?
[12:44] <tseng> hi.
[02:18] <tseng> merging changelogs is a pain
[04:36] <crimsun> evening, tritium
[04:36] <tritium> Hi crimsun.   Hang in there, it'll soon be complete!
[04:39] <tritium> crimsun, thanks :)
[04:39] <schweeb> raise your hand if you're working from home tomorrow!
[04:40] <zul> heh...i always work from home...since im not working
[04:40] <tritium> well, I just stopped by to say hello.  Good night, gentlemen
[04:40] <schweeb> night, tritium
[04:40] <tritium> night, schweeb
[04:40] <schweeb> zul: vpns are godly
[04:40] <schweeb> :)
[04:40] <zul> yes they are nice
[05:03] <blahrus> schweeb: why do you get to work from home tomorrow?
[05:03] <schweeb> blahrus: I feel like it
[05:03] <schweeb> can do everything from home I can do from work
[05:03] <blahrus> haha nice
[05:04] <blahrus> thats great you should have them pay you more and the can give someone else your office :)
[05:09] <schweeb> blahrus: they're probably overpaying me as it is
[05:11] <blahrus> I don't wanna hear about that
[05:11] <schweeb> it's true ;)
[05:21] <blahrus> well help me sell them on some of site stuff :)
[05:21] <schweeb> hah
[09:28] <\sh> moins
[09:29] <janm> hi
[09:42] <\sh> hmmm
[09:43] <\sh> my harddrive is full
[09:45] <Amaranth> \sh: time to ditch the breezy chroot and upgrade for real :)
[09:46] <\sh> Amaranth: u think so?
[09:48] <\sh> yesterday it was only 31% now it's 100% and I don't know why..didn't download any pr0n yesterday or something like this
[09:49] <Treenaks> \sh: du -sh is your friend I guess
[09:49] <\sh> yeah
[09:50] <\sh> ok...i will backup my breezy trans stuff on my rootie
[09:50] <\sh> there is more place
[09:53] <HostingGeek> "Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks"
[09:53] <HostingGeek> That has been there for almost 1 weeks
[09:54] <\sh> from now
[09:56] <HostingGeek> WTF
[09:57] <HostingGeek> you extended it by another week
[09:57] <HostingGeek> lets say I only say that topic last week
[09:57] <HostingGeek> and started complaing in the list
[09:57] <Lathiat> how bout you shutup and get over it
[09:58] <Amaranth> it's actually said that for over a month now
[09:58] <Amaranth> but who cares, if you don't like it use hoary
[09:59] <HostingGeek> Amaranth: Shess
[09:59] <HostingGeek> thats crazy
[10:00] <Amaranth> HostingGeek: Pay someone to do something about it, do something about it yourself, or stop complaining.
[10:01] <\sh> see, all the guys are working on breezy...no one said, after 6 weeks breezy will be usable
[10:02] <HostingGeek> Amaranth: I am not complain about it not being done
[10:02] <HostingGeek> I am complaining that the topic says 2 weeks
[10:02] <Lathiat> sure you are
[10:02] <Lathiat> you have been fo rthe last 10 minutes :)
[10:02] <HostingGeek> and in 2 weeks it might not be done
[10:02] <HostingGeek> say something liker
[10:02] <HostingGeek> "Please dont complain about mono deps until this notice is removed from the topic"
[10:03] <\sh> "Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks and after 2 weeks, read this sentence again"
[10:03] <Treenaks> or "For complaints about mono deps, please send 10 mails to tseng" ;)
[10:04] <\sh> or "Pay tseng 1Billion dollars to fix it"
[10:04] <Treenaks> \sh: ONE MILLION DOLLARS </dr evil>
 <pinky in mouth> 1 billion cajillion triolion baillion dollars
[10:05] <Treenaks> Lathiat: exactly :)
[10:05] <\sh> finally the best way is: sit down, read the manual, fix it by yourself, become a motu ;)
[10:06] <Treenaks> \sh: and piss off the debian mono team, no thanks
[10:06] <\sh> finally the best way is: sit down, read the manual, fix it by yourself, become a motu and deal with the debian mono team (compliments to Treenaks)
[10:08] <HostingGeek> lol
 or "For complaints about mono deps, please send 10 mails to tseng" ;)
[10:08] <HostingGeek> whats his address?
[10:08] <Treenaks> HostingGeek<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:08] <\sh> 150MB from 1.5GB finished
[10:08] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: or no wait
[10:09] <Treenaks> HostingGeek<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:09] <HostingGeek> lol
[10:09] <Lathiat><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[10:09] <HostingGeek> I wasn't talking about email
[10:09] <HostingGeek> i was talking about email
[10:09] <Treenaks> HostingGeek: were you or were you not talking about email?
[10:10] <HostingGeek> I was talking about his postal address
[10:10] <Lathiat> oh yes
[10:10] <Lathiat> postal address and internet
[10:10] <Lathiat> they always go well together
[10:10] <Lathiat> especially with trolls
[10:12] <\sh> ogra: pingeling
[10:27] <Amaranth> ajmitch: smeg 0.7.5 could probably be accepted now, seb has undone the menu renaming
[10:57] <siretart> moin
[10:59] <siretart> wiki awfully slow for me over here. :(
[11:08] <\sh> siretart: hey :) can u check please this list for libs, and send me a list of your already uploaded and compiled libs, so i can compile a list for infinity to remove those showstoppers? :) http://lucifer.0c3.net/~adconrad/frozenapps.txt
[11:09] <siretart> \sh: will do. I prepared 2 upload, but could you please have a look at them?
[11:09] <siretart> I want to avoid big mistakes
[11:10] <siretart> \sh: I have nothing on this list prepared.  should I focus on libs on this list?
[11:10] <\sh> siretart: I would like to, but right now, I'm not able to do anything, cause I'll need place...uploading some stuff to my backup hd ;)
[11:11] <siretart> whops. :)
[11:13] <\sh> siretart: i think most of it it
[11:13] <\sh> it's done...i saw some packages from ogra, but it looks like that some of them are not uploaded right now
[11:14] <siretart> \sh: what's the policy with transitioned libs, do they need to be reviewed before uploading, or may I upload at will?
[11:14] <\sh> siretart: upload them :)
[11:14] <\sh> put the debdiff in bugzilla
[11:16] <siretart> debdiffs are here: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11636 and https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11510
[11:16] <siretart> ok, will do
[11:22] <ajmitch> \sh: I've got cln2 & ginac on that list
[11:22] <ajmitch> not sure why pingus is waiting on clanlib, I thought I uploaded that?
[11:23] <ajmitch> s/ed/s/
[11:23] <\sh> ajmitch: check the buildlogs or the archive..if they're on frozenlibs, we have to tell infinity to remove them..or to remove the apps from frozenapps.txt which r depending on those libs
[11:24] <ajmitch> glcpu needs updated - it depends on libcommoncpp2-1.0-0
[11:25] <\sh> libcommoncpp2 is uploaded and finished...
[11:25] <ajmitch> look at what I said
[11:25] <ajmitch> 1.0.. 1.3 was uploaded
[11:26] <\sh> aehm
[11:27] <Amaranth> ajmitch: nevermind on that, i think we're changing back again :)
[11:27] <\sh> ah right...1.3 is the new version...so glcpu needs love
[11:27] <ajmitch> \sh: yes :)
[11:27] <ajmitch> ok, doko said clanlib was uploaded, but it wasn't
[11:28] <ajmitch> so I'll upload that
[11:28] <\sh> glcpu depends on libcommoncpp2-dev?
[11:28] <\sh> (without version info?)
[11:29] <ajmitch> \sh: yes, build-deps
[11:29] <doko> ajmitch, I didn't say that
[11:29] <\sh> hmmm...then it should get libcommoncpp2 (version 1.3) directly
[11:29] <ajmitch> doko: sorry, it was closed with FIXED, comment said built for amd64/i386/powerpc/ia64
[11:30] <ajmitch> I assumed that meant you uploaded it
[11:30] <doko> ouch, maybe I did that for the wrong report ...
[11:31] <ajmitch> doesn't matter, I'll upload
[11:33] <\sh> doko: some news about ocaml? or is also waiting for a new xorg upload by daniels? :)
[11:33] <ajmitch> editex has ocaml fun as well :)
[11:34] <doko> \sh: yes, waiting on xorg
[11:34] <\sh> there r some apps with ocaml deps or ocaml-libdeps, which needs an updated ocaml ;)
[11:36] <\sh> and gnuradio must be fixed by upstream
[11:37] <ajmitch> packages that build-depend on xlibmesa-dev, what's the replacement?
[11:39] <\sh> xlibmesa-dev ;)
[11:40] <ajmitch> but I got comments on my difs telling me to change the build-deps to libglu-dev-xorg :)
[11:40] <ajmitch> even though it's not depending on the glu headers
[11:41] <\sh> libglu-dev-xorg: Provides: libglu-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev
[11:41] <\sh> eventually xlibmesa-gl-dev?
[11:41] <ajmitch> fox only deps on xlibmesa-dev, but got a similar comment
[11:41] <\sh> yeah...xlibmesa-gl-dev is the new package
[11:41] <ajmitch> possibly
[11:41] <\sh> Replaces: libgl-dev, libutahglx-dev, xlibmesa-dev (<< 4.2.1-5)
[11:42] <ajmitch> eventually
[11:42] <ajmitch> but xlibmesa-dev is at 6.8.2-22 at the moment
[11:42] <\sh> Conflicts: libgl-dev, libutahglx-dev, xlibmesa-dev (<< 4.2.1-5)
[11:42] <\sh> xlibmesa-gl-dev as well
[11:42] <ajmitch> yes, I checked those before I asked :)
[11:43] <\sh> xlibmesa-dev is only a transitional package it will include xlibmesa-gl-dev and libglu-dev-xorg
[11:43] <siretart> will upload source package mesa in a few minutes
[11:47] <siretart> gnarf. in a few hours. gotta leave now. cu
[12:06] <torkel> tseng: are you aware that libgecko-cil and libgecko2.0-cil depends on firefox-browser instead of firefox? f-b is not available in breezy
[12:06] <ivoks> :)
[12:14] <tseng> yes
[12:23] <\sh> I'm pissed now
[12:23] <tseng> yes?
[12:24] <\sh> those guys from this office...they're something like assholes...
[12:24] <\sh> sorry..
[12:25] <\sh> so many people, who r receiving more money then the NOC staff..and those engineering guys don't have a clue about the easiest methods of testing
[12:25] <\sh> now they have hard+software running which is shitty, unstable, low level java shit
[12:27] <\sh> and when we said from noc operations: we are not able to operate this shit, because it's unstable, it's eating memory blabla, what u get us a fcking statement like "it's not your concern, u r operating what we will give u..." and no
[12:28] <\sh> and now, they're coming and pointing a finger on noc operations, that we didn't inform engineering, that this hardware and software doesn't work as expected...
[12:28] <\sh> I'll go and fist now someone...i need to have my peace
[12:29] <ajmitch> wonderful, clanlib ftbfs
[12:29] <ajmitch> missing X11/Xlib.h
[12:29] <tseng> thats supposed to be fixed this week
[12:29] <tseng> if you believe it
[12:31] <ivoks> ajmitch: one of many :)
[12:32] <ajmitch> ivoks: it's mildly annoying
[12:32] <tseng> wb ogra
[12:37] <Amaranth> i wish the vlc devs weren't so stupid
[12:37] <Amaranth> depending on hal and making it non-optional
[01:00] <\sh> ajmitch: ping
[01:01] <\sh> ajmitch: skstream?
[01:06] <\sh> ajmitch: taking it...:)
[01:13] <ajmitch> sigh
[01:14] <\sh> ajmitch: there r some more ;) I took them all ;)
[01:14] <ajmitch> gee thanks
[01:15] <\sh> skstream simage snacc
[01:15] <\sh> sndobj snmpkit socketapi
[01:16] <ajmitch> asking is nice sometimes, \sh
[01:17] <\sh> aehmm...remove me then ;)
[01:26] <ajmitch> \sh: so should I do any more cxx transition or am I wasting my time?
[01:27] <\sh> ajmitch: sorry when I was acting to fast...
[01:28] <\sh> +o
[01:29] <ajmitch> I see you took over all the libcc* ones that I didn't file my diffs for
[01:29] <\sh> skstream and simage are done
[01:29] <\sh> ajmitch: it was monday?
[01:29] <ajmitch> yes
[01:29] <\sh> yeah..i just search bugzilla for entries
[01:30] <\sh> shit
[01:30] <\sh> sometimes i'm really annoying
[01:33] <ajmitch> it takes quite awhile for me to be able to do anything with bugzilla, on this connection
[01:33] <ajmitch> editing the wiki page is similar
[01:41] <\sh> ok...tell me which diffs u have prepared, i will change the wiki page..the bugentries are already filed..so i will assign them to u
[01:47] <ajmitch> currently trying to track down a useful patch for sigcx
[01:47] <ajmitch> since I don't know baz well enough, and the source tree has changed a bit
[01:50] <ajmitch> someone who generates template classes from m4 has to be at least a little evil
[01:50] <ajmitch> or a friend of jbailey's
[01:51] <jbailey> Hey....
[01:51] <ajmitch> :)
[01:51] <jbailey> You mean C++ template classes?
[01:51] <ajmitch> yeah
[01:51] <jbailey> Ugh.
[01:51] <jbailey> From m4?
[01:51] <ajmitch> uses m4 to produce templates with different arguments\
[01:51] <jbailey> m4 is a lovely language, but why not cpp?
[01:52] <tseng> hm my screen-auto-away thing is not working
[01:52] <tseng> it sets away in irssi when you detach screen
[01:54] <Lathiat> tseng: thats cool, how does that work
[01:55] <tseng> it just watches for the pid of screen for your user i think
[01:56] <tseng> every few seconds.
[02:39] <\sh> back from fisting manager
[02:40] <tseng> thats pretty gross
[02:40] <tseng> in english anyway.
[02:40] <ogra> lol
[02:40] <jamessan|work> indeed
[02:42] <tseng> bwar i need to finish gst-plugins-multiverse
[02:42] <tseng> and write reviews for all the mono stuff
[02:42] <\sh> sorry
[02:42] <tseng> so I guess fixing boo man pages isnt a huge issue now that debian uploaded w/o them
[02:42] <tseng> yay for policy
[02:43] <\sh> ogra: did u uploaded srcpackage: unicon?
[02:43] <\sh> ogra: it's on the frozenapps list...and if its uploaded and compiled we can remove it
[02:43] <ogra> \sh, waits for the Xheaders to be fixed...
[02:43] <\sh> ah
[02:44] <ogra> \sh, its my last package from my list... tyvis waits for the last warped build with the fix from yesterday
[02:44] <ogra> then i'm done
[02:44] <ogra> daniels promised to fix X today.... lets see
[02:45] <\sh> ,-)
[02:45] <ogra> \sh, X is ok....only the headers are stored in mixed locations currently
[02:46] <\sh> just joking..thinking about a discussion this morning about the mono deps ;)
[02:46] <ogra> *yawn*
[02:46] <\sh> and I'm in <reallyangrymode/>
[02:47] <tseng> someone told me about one just today already
[02:47] <tseng> that i already uploaded a fix for
[02:53] <\sh> mmm...
[02:53] <\sh> sf.net downloads are not working?
[03:00] <\sh> who was working on glcpu?
[03:00] <ajmitch> noone, I said that it required a rebuild earlier
[03:00] <\sh> ah :)
[03:01] <ajmitch> and hopefully the libcommoncpp2-dev shlibs are correct
[03:02] <\sh> hmmm...any special action for rebuilding? or only changing the version in changelog and uploading?
[03:02] <ajmitch> change version
[03:02] <ajmitch> a rebuild might only take a build version..
[03:03] <ajmitch> eg 1.1-1 becomes 1.1-1build1, iirc
[03:03] <\sh> so..no ubuntu stuff
[03:04] <ajmitch> depends if it has an ubuntu version already :)
[03:04] <\sh> no
[03:04] <\sh> plain debian
[03:04] <ajmitch> ok
[03:05] <ajmitch> it fails consistently each time
[03:11] <tseng> :'(
[03:11] <Treenaks> ajmitch: don't install breezy for noobs
[03:12] <ajmitch> Treenaks: pfft
[03:12] <ajmitch> I'm helping him install hoary
[03:12] <ogra> with beagle ?
[03:12] <ajmitch> tseng: well, it got to about 900MB mem usage before I killed it
[03:12] <ajmitch> ogra: 2 different things
[03:12] <tseng> ajmitch: well, yes
[03:13] <tseng> it needs alot more love yet
[03:13] <ogra> ajmitch, get more mem ;)
[03:13] <tseng> we have a few months.
[03:13] <ajmitch> ogra: surely long^Wbreezy should work fine with 1GB?
[03:14] <tseng> long?
[03:14] <tseng> oh.
[03:14] <ajmitch> tseng: I think it choked on my cached liferea rss
[03:15] <tseng> boo liferea
[03:15] <ajmitch> the cache dir is about 60MB for it
[03:15] <tseng> gross
[03:15] <ogra> tseng, its written in boo ? thats news to me
[03:15] <tseng> blam throws the old crap out
[03:15] <tseng> ogra: :D
[03:15] <tseng> i wonder why boo didnt come over yet
[03:15] <ogra> :)
[03:15] <ajmitch> I didn't want the old crap thrown out
[03:15] <tseng> it was uploaded to unstable afaik
[03:16] <\sh> glcpu just build fine
[03:16] <ajmitch> \sh: good
[03:16] <\sh> on my local machine...lets wait for the other arch
[03:16] <tseng> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/b/boo/boo_<IP_ADDRESS>1-1.diff.gz
[03:17] <tseng> gar
[03:17] <tseng> it does have some manpages
[03:27] <mgalvin> morning all
[03:27] <mgalvin> siretart, ping
[03:33] <tseng> \sh: gah, here comes my companies asshole
[03:33] <tseng> "why the fuck blah blah"
[03:34] <\sh> hehe...so lets be pissed together :(
[03:34] <tseng> this guy couldnt figure out how to use my app
[03:34] <tseng> clicking hyperlinks is tough.
[03:34] <\sh> tseng: answer to him: RTFM?
[03:35] <siretart> mgalvin: pong
[03:38] <mgalvin> siretart, just wanted to let you know i updated cegui to that latest version and it will be in debian very soon
[03:38] <mgalvin> i notified the debian maintainer, he will upload it when he gets a chance
[03:38] <siretart> mgalvin: great! :)
[03:39] <mgalvin> so when the c++ transition stuff is done, we can just pull it in from debian
[03:41] <siretart> mgalvin: since it is a NEW package, we will sync it automatically
[03:41] <mgalvin> siretart, oh I am also working with fog(the debian maintainer) on a new ogre package to support multiple platforms, there will be libogre-base5, libogre-glx5, and libogre-sdl5
[03:41] <mgalvin> ok cool, even better :)
[03:46] <siretart> :)
[04:01] <DanielN> argh
[04:01] <DanielN> i'll get in troubles to find someone, signing my gpg key :/
[04:01] <tseng> did you search big lumber?
[04:01] <DanielN> not yet
[04:01] <DanielN> i'm in school actually
[04:04] <DanielN> mhm
[04:04] <DanielN> not in my near environment
[04:04] <DanielN> :/
[04:16] <ogra> hmmm, funny ubuntu-users, "So if I install for example gcc-4.0-base from the backports repository ....."
[04:16] <ogra> doko ^^ did you have a look at that package ?
[04:16] <tseng> its in there?
[04:16] <tseng> wtf for
[04:16] <ogra> no idea...
[04:16] <ogra> but the user asks about it in -users
[04:16] <tseng> i thought we agreed to not touch that stuff
[04:17] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-June/038173.html
[04:18] <doko> ogra: no, I don't comment on that one.
[04:18] <ogra> heh
[04:18] <ogra> doko, we will have official backports soon... so it would probably make sense to have a look :)
[04:18] <ogra> since its the same guy...
[04:19] <ajmitch> mm, backports..
[04:19] <ogra> *shudder* (still)
[04:20] <doko> ogra: maybe just require glibc >= 2.3.5 and binutils >= 2.16 and he will think twice ...
[04:20] <ogra> heh
[04:20] <jbailey> doko: Or they might not.  Careful what you ask for. =)
[04:20] <ajmitch> doko: the problem is that people don't think, they just see shiny new versions :)
[04:21] <tseng> ajmitch: new = good!
[04:21] <ajmitch> of course
[04:21] <ajmitch> I can't wait for grumpy
[04:21] <tseng> gcc 4 is a major version component bump
[04:21] <tseng> that must mean its really good
[04:21] <ogra> i think its not about tricking the backports guys..... the right approach is to embrace, squeeze and in the end swallow them to become real maintainers ;)
[04:22] <tseng> ogra: i told him we would stop laughing at him if he closed the project and joined motu
[04:22] <tseng> ogra: no luck.
[04:22] <ogra> tseng, just dont give up ;) what will he do if we open a MOTUBackports team.... and offer him the lead ?
[04:23] <doko> ogra: I can see a point, where he want to build OOo2 for backports. but in this case, he should better use the GCC included in OOo2
[04:23] <tseng> ogra: erm, the same thing i do now
[04:23] <ogra> you cant shut it dwn...
[04:23] <ajmitch> poor people that try & use beagle from backports
[04:23] <tseng> ogra: cry all day long while people in #mono point out the backport
[04:24] <ogra> tseng, the current situation is odd, but not to solve right now...
[04:25] <tseng> no one in there has any patience or appreciation of how much work it takes is all
[04:25] <ogra> so lets look at the future... lets get these people in, let them have a team and we have an option to have some influence, the user demand for backports is to big to not do it it seems....
[04:25] <tseng> the backport user doesnt understand the implications
[04:26] <tseng> they just see "cool stuff + stable = win"
[04:26] <ogra> the backport user just wants the latest crap, if it isnt available as deb he will alien an rpm or build from source.....
[04:27] <tseng> < nathany> hi everyone, i'm trying to get Beagle running on Ubuntu and have run into
[04:27] <tseng>           some problems...
[04:27] <ogra> so having packages we can actually influence a bit and check for quality is the compromise in front of this users
[04:27] <tseng> <snip not working crap>
[04:27] <tseng> < nathany> well i'm using the debs from the Ubuntu Backports project, as recommended
[04:27] <tseng>           on the website
[04:27] <tseng> winner!
[04:28] <ogra> cant jdong just backport the current backages and have an update ?
[04:28] <ajmitch> as recommended on the beagle site, no doubt
[04:28] <ogra> ajmitch, it is
[04:28] <ogra> thats the sad part about it
[04:28] <tseng> ogra: I guess
[04:28] <ajmitch> latest beagle wants latest inotify to work nice
[04:28] <ogra> ajmitch, really ? thats a versioning thing ?
[04:29] <ajmitch> ogra: yeah, inotify 0.23 is in breezy's kernel
[04:29] <ogra> tseng, hmm, the bad thing is that beagle involves dbus.... wont work....
[04:29] <tseng> it doesnt
[04:29] <ajmitch> 0.0.10 doesn't need dbus
[04:29] <tseng> if he updated it.
[04:29] <ogra> ah
[04:31] <tseng> i asked him to leave it exactly like it was, and let people slowly move to breezy
[04:31] <tseng> instead he tried to update everything
[04:31] <tseng> and i keep hearing about it every day
[04:39] <tseng> < orospakr> argh! the backports packages are no good
[04:39] <tseng> < orospakr> MD 0.7 require monodoc
[04:39] <tseng> < orospakr> but alas, it is simply not there.
[04:39] <ogra> heh
[04:39] <tseng> I could do this all day
[04:41] <tseng> i dont want to hold his hand
[04:41] <tseng> if you know what I mean.
[04:43] <ogra> yep
[04:43] <ogra> but this way people will grok how bad it is to use backports... its ok....(if you can ignore it)
[04:44] <ogra> and it shows how urgent the teaming up is
[04:44] <ogra> so in the end its a good thing
[04:44] <tseng> its hard to ignore, i spend all my time trying to do it the right way
[04:44] <tseng> and what people are actually using is a broken copy
[04:45] <ogra> but thats not your fault
[04:45] <ogra> we are working in a development version... its the fault of the guy making untested backports available
[04:45] <tseng> but it turns people off to ubuntu-mono
[04:46] <tseng> (which upstream picks over their own distro)
[04:46] <\sh> ok...glcpu compiled on all archs
[04:48] <ogra> tseng, but still... we are a development distro currently... the guy who pulls them from hee knows about it, i'd expect him to do a well test... if not, redirect the complaintments dirctly to him.... give the people his mailadress, he broek it, let him take the complaints
[04:48] <tseng> thats a good idea, point them at his little forum
[04:48] <ogra> yeah
[04:49] <tseng> since he doesnt participate in upstream
[04:49] <ogra> if he made the error, he has to cope with it
[04:49] <ogra> and its something you shouldnt waste time and nerves on
[04:51] <tseng> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=47
[04:52] <\sh> who is it?
[04:52] <tseng> jdong
[04:53] <\sh> yeah...but what thread?
[04:53] <tseng> there is no thread yet
[04:53] <tseng> i hear about his bugs all day on irc, so i am going to make people complain on the forums
[04:53] <\sh> i think it's cleared how he has to deal with backports
[04:53] <tseng> well he is going against the standards we came up with
[04:54] <tseng> no libraries, no interpreters, and i asked him personally to stop doing mono
[04:54] <\sh> raise it upto sabdfl
[04:54] <tseng> i dont want to raise it to anyone
[04:54] <tseng> i want him to see his own bugs.
[04:55] <tseng> its not a personal thing
[04:55] <\sh> mark was involved...so someone has to take care about it...if there should be an official backports projects, he has to deal now with the rules
[04:55] <ajmitch> sleep time, bbl
[04:55] <\sh> tseng: between work/volunteer work and personal feelings, there is a difference..:) and right now, we're talking about work
[04:56] <\sh> ajmitch: can i take the other packages?
[04:56] <\sh> sndobj snmpkit socketapi?
[04:56] <\sh> or r u working on it?
[04:57] <\sh> anyways..going home...later dudes
[04:57] <tseng> bye.
[05:39] <tseng> we really need to come up with something for this tomboy icon
[05:39] <tseng> it looks awful
[05:40] <ogra> tseng, do you have the full iconset anywhere ?
[05:40] <tseng> yes but tomboy doesnt use the icon theme
[05:40] <tseng> it uses a static pixmap
[05:40] <ogra> not what i saw at guadec...
[05:40] <tseng> from who?
[05:40] <ogra> on redhat and suse i saw other icons
[05:41] <tseng> yes
[05:41] <ogra> so the code seems to use it anyhow
[05:41] <tseng> i think they just shipped the correct size
[05:41] <tseng> let me find the suse rpm them
[05:41] <ogra> hmm, thats what i maent, do you have all these icons ?
[05:41] <tseng> yes
[05:41] <ogra> good...
[05:41] <tseng> but dajobe is installing 48x48
[05:41] <ogra> i can look into it if you like
[05:42] <tseng> and it scales badly
[05:42] <tseng> no you have important tasks
[05:42] <tseng> this is something stupid i put off
[05:43] <ogra> lets just do it right... we have plenty of time for such stuff
[05:43] <tseng> the srpm has every size included
[05:44] <tseng> mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/opt/gnome/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/
[05:44] <tseng> cp %SOURCE1 $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/opt/gnome/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/tintin.png
[05:44] <tseng> huh
[05:44] <tseng> they arent patching it to do that
[05:44] <tseng> i am sure that didnt work for me
[05:44] <tseng> let me try it
[05:45] <ogra> it does, but you'll have to roll a new upstream tarball.... ugly
[05:45] <tseng> no i dont
[05:45] <ogra> err, they use tintin.png ?
[05:45] <tseng> we uuencode the image
[05:45] <tseng> and put it in diff.gz
[05:46] <ogra> tseng, you just said without patching
[05:46] <tseng> in debian/
[05:46] <tseng> i mean they dont patch the source
[05:46] <ogra> yep
[05:46] <tseng> srpm is an archive that can have patches, original upstream source, and whatever else
[05:46] <tseng> they put the images right in the archive
[05:46] <tseng> but not in the source.
[05:51] <tseng> no that isnt working here
[05:52] <tseng> ill build their source
[05:54] <mgalvin> anyone know what -dev package "xf86vmode.h" might live in?
[05:55] <mgalvin> found it, libxxf86vm-dev
[06:03] <siretart> hm there are issues with mesa (source package). Will defer upload until I realize whats going on there...
[06:18] <\sh> re
[06:18] <\sh> how good it is to run a journaled file system on usb hds
[06:25] <bddebian> Howdy
[07:11] <tseng> ogra: have you had a change to try beagle?
[07:11] <ogra> not yet
[07:12] <tseng> a chance.
[07:12] <ogra> hmmm, installs fine :)
[07:20] <ogra> tseng... doesnt work :(
[07:21] <tseng> ogra: well, whats wrong
[07:21] <tseng> I made one bug
[07:21] <tseng> if it says somethign about sqlite
[07:21] <tseng> its my fault
[07:21] <ogra> nope
[07:22] <ogra> Die Abfrage fr mdz ist mit folgendem Fehler fehlgeschlagen:
[07:22] <ogra> System.Net.Sockets.SocketException: Connection refused in [0x00063]  System.Net.Sockets.Socket:Connect (System.Net.EndPoint remote_end) in <0x00032> Beagle.Util.UnixClient:Connect (Mono.Posix.UnixEndPoint remoteEndPoint) in <0x00046> Beagle.Util.UnixClient:Connect (System.String path) in <0x00029> Beagle.Util.UnixClient:.ctor (System.String path) in <0x00034> Beagle.Client:SendRequest (Beagle.RequestMessage request) in <0x00020> Beagle.Client:S
[07:22] <ogra> endAsync (Beagle.RequestMessage request) in <0x000db> Beagle.RequestMessage:SendAsync () in <0x0020b> Best.BestWindow:Search (System.String searchString)
[07:22] <ogra> thats what best shows me
[07:23] <ogra> ah, and beagled crashed in the background
[07:31] <ogra> tseng, now beagled and best work fine, but the query gets no responses
[07:32] <ogra> i see it running in the beagled terminal.... but nothing in best
[07:40] <tseng> someone said that earlier
[07:40] <tseng> that it wasnt indexing anything
[07:40] <tseng> mine does
[07:40] <tseng> its pretty impressive, my system always works
[07:41] <tseng> did beagled throw any errors
[07:41] <ogra> nope
[07:41] <tseng> with --fg --debug on?
[07:41] <ogra> itsstill runs fine and indexex
[07:42] <tseng> hm so its indexing now?
[07:42] <ogra> i see the best query in the beagle terminal....
[07:42] <ogra> but best doesnt show anything
[07:42] <ogra> yep
[07:42] <tseng> huh
[07:42] <tseng> wow
[07:43] <ogra> ok, another best try
[07:43] <tseng> can you make a file called ogra
[07:43] <tseng> and echo "ogra ogra ogra ogra ogra ogra" > ogra
[07:43] <tseng> and search for that
[07:44] <ogra> sure
[07:44] <tseng> it worked for me.
[07:45] <ogra> beagle still indexes fine...
[07:45] <ogra> but slows down my system like hell... my disk only has 4200rpm
[07:45] <tseng> ;(
[07:46] <tseng> rlove just wrote a drive test thing
[07:46] <tseng> so he can throttle it down when you are using the disk
[07:46] <ogra> finds nothing....
[07:46] <tseng> ok..
[07:46] <ogra> DEBUG: worker removed: name=System.Object
[07:46] <ogra> DEBUG: worker removed: name=HandleConnection (13)
[07:46] <ogra> DEBUG: worker removed: name=Beagle.Daemon.QueryDriver+QueryClosure
[07:46] <ogra> last line gets repeated 5 times
[07:47] <ogra> thats what beagled spits out if i query
[07:48] <tseng> i dunno what that means.
[07:48] <tseng> yes mine says that too
[07:49] <tseng> ** (gnome-cups-icon:5798): WARNING **: IPP request failed with status 1030
[07:49] <tseng> why are we doing this btw
[07:49] <tseng> is it polling something?
[07:49] <tseng> it runs every few seconds
[07:50] <ogra> hmm
[07:50] <ogra> ask pitti
[08:05] <Nafallo> is beagle supposed to understand I use IMAP? ;-)
[08:05] <tseng> i use imap and it works fine
[08:05] <tseng> evolution-data-server, dude.
[08:05] <Nafallo> hehe, and it doesn't work. neither does files and addressbooks :-P
[08:06] <tseng> well fix it
[08:06] <tseng> and tell me what you did
[08:06] <tseng> because mine works fine.
[08:06] <tseng> *G*
[08:06] <Nafallo> hehe
[08:06] <Nafallo> I'll try :-)
[08:06] <tseng> is this on amd64?
[08:06] <Nafallo> is there anything more than remount the / to use user_xattr and run best I should do.
[08:07] <Nafallo> yes, amd64 :-)
[08:07] <tseng> yes
[08:07] <tseng> remount
[08:07] <tseng> export EXERCISE_THE_DOG=1
[08:07] <tseng> that unthrottles it
[08:07] <dholbach> and then?
[08:07] <tseng> and run beagled --fg --debug
[08:07] <dholbach> ok :)
[08:07] <tseng> if you get sqlite error tell me
[08:07] <dholbach> yuo should write a README.Debian :)
[08:07] <tseng> and ill tell you how to fix
[08:08] <tseng> dholbach: hm yes
[08:08] <dholbach> i get about millions or error messages
[08:08] <tseng> the beagle wiki is nice
[08:08] <Nafallo> wholy shit! /me likes :-)
[08:08] <tseng> millions?
[08:08] <tseng> :D
[08:08] <dholbach> quite a lot :)
[08:09] <tseng> well msg them to me
[08:09] <Nafallo> ERROR: Caught exception while instantiating Files backend
[08:09] <tseng> oh taht would explain a bit
[08:09] <tseng> dude trow is awake
[08:09] <dholbach> oh yes... i have that as well
[08:10] <tseng> yeah dude sqllite
[08:10] <tseng> heh hold up a second
[08:10] <Nafallo> tseng: see msg ;-)
[08:10] <tseng> i see it
[08:11] <tseng>  /usr/lib/mono/1.0/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll.config
[08:11] <tseng> move that to
[08:11] <Nafallo> WARN: Could not open Evolution addressbook.  Addressbook searching is disabled.
[08:11] <tseng> /usr/lib/mono/gac/Mono.Data.SqliteClient/1.0.5000.0__0738eb9f132ed756/Mono.Data.SqliteClient.dll.config
[08:11] <tseng> move to there
[08:11] <tseng> ill fix that tonight
[08:12] <tseng> then start your beagled's again
[08:12] <tseng> im closing your msg, if you get more breakage paste fresh
[08:12] <ogra> wow, stopping it takes a minute
[08:12] <tseng> ogra: yeah it has alot of threads
[08:12] <ogra> yeps
[08:12] <tseng> esp with exercise mode
[08:13] <tseng> < trow> tseng: My amd64 box was delivered earlier this week, but I haven't had time
[08:13] <tseng>           to set it up yet.
[08:13] <tseng> < trow> tseng: But pretty soon I'll be routinely building & testing on amd64.
[08:13] <dholbach> ROCK
[08:13] <ogra> yay \o/
[08:13] <Nafallo> lol
[08:14] <Nafallo> tseng: msg ;-)
[08:14] <tseng> Nafallo: do you have /usr/lib/beagle/Util.dll.config
[08:15] <dholbach> i have it
[08:15] <Nafallo> yes
[08:15] <tseng> ok everyone install libmono-dev too.
[08:15] <tseng> to fix daniel's
[08:15] <tseng> thats an upstream mono bug we just fixed
[08:15] <dholbach> WOW
[08:15] <tseng> mis-managed so versioning
[08:15] <dholbach> you ROCK SO HARD!
[08:15] <tseng> :D
[08:15] <tseng> Nafallo: so
[08:16] <tseng>         <dllmap dll="libgnomeui-2" target="libgnomeui-2.so.0"/>
[08:16] <tseng> is in /usr/lib/beagle/Util.dll.config
[08:16] <Nafallo> libmono-dev is already the latest version.
[08:16] <tseng>  /usr/lib/libgnome-2.so.0 do you have this Nafallo ?
[08:16] <dholbach> WOW, IT F.CKING DOES SOMETHING
[08:16] <Nafallo> tseng: nope :-)
[08:16] <tseng> Nafallo: what is it
[08:16] <tseng> er not that
[08:17] <tseng>  /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so.0
[08:17] <Nafallo> ooh, I missread. I have it.
[08:17] <tseng> both?
[08:17] <lsuactiafner> amd64 on ubuntu is very good
[08:17] <lsuactiafner> chroots ect run perfectly also
[08:17] <ogra> lsuactiafner, and the other way around too ?
[08:18] <Nafallo> <dllmap dll="libexif.dll" target="libexif.so.10"/>
[08:18] <Nafallo> <dllmap dll="libgnomeui-2" target="libgnomeui-2.so.0"/>
[08:18] <lsuactiafner> other way around?
[08:18] <lsuactiafner> i dont have an ubuntu 32bit system
[08:18] <tseng> Nafallo: yes and you have that file in /usr/lib right?
[08:18] <ogra> amd64 on ubuntu ?
[08:18] <ogra> you mean ubuntu on amd64 ;)
[08:18] <lsuactiafner> amd64 on ubuntu, works very well
[08:18] <Nafallo> tseng: yepp
[08:18] <tseng> Nafallo: wtf
[08:18] <tseng> let me look at your message again
[08:18] <lsuactiafner> even slashdot users said its outstanding
[08:19] <tseng> yeah, Beagle.Util
[08:19] <ogra> tseng, woha
[08:19] <tseng> wth
[08:19] <ogra> tseng, installed libmono-dev
[08:19] <ogra> tseng, best doesnt survive :/
[08:19] <tseng> Nafallo: eh so
[08:20] <tseng> Nafallo: install libgnomevfs2-dev and see what happens
[08:20] <tseng> that should definately be mapped
[08:20] <tseng> i wonder if they did something evil on amd64
[08:20] <tseng> to point to /usr/lib64 ?
[08:20] <tseng> i thought it used ldpath, though.
[08:20] <tseng> is anyone else getting
[08:20] <ogra> tseng, /usr/lib points to /usr/lib64
 Unhandled Exception: System.TypeInitializationException: An exception was
[08:20] <tseng>           thrown by the type initializer for Beagle.Util.VFS.Mime --->
[08:20] <tseng>           System.DllNotFoundException: libgnomevfs-2
[08:21] <tseng> or libgnomeui for that matter
[08:21] <ogra> YAY
[08:21] <tseng> thats why
[08:21] <Nafallo> tseng: fixed it :-)
[08:21] <tseng> Nafallo: im a dumbass
[08:21] <ogra> i got my first response :)
[08:21] <ogra> best works
[08:21] <tseng> Nafallo: so, you found a bug I didnt know!
[08:21] <tseng> or forgot
[08:21] <tseng> good job.
[08:21] <ogra> hehe, and searching for ogra brings up tsengs blog as first hit, funny
[08:22] <tseng> :D
[08:22] <tseng> my blog has high beagle indexing powers
[08:22] <ogra> DC of the Month
[08:22] <ogra> CD even
[08:22] <Nafallo> let's see if we can find more of them ;-)
[08:22] <Nafallo> tseng: msg ;-)
[08:22] <tseng> Nafallo: hm i dont think that one is mine :)
[08:23] <tseng> can you put that in a pastebin and work with #dashboard/gimpnet?
[08:23] <Nafallo> tseng: baah, it's beagle. ofcourse it yours ;-)
[08:23] <tseng> Nafallo: i wrote every line!
[08:23] <tseng> thats the joke at our office.. whenever there is an ubuntu bug they ask me
[08:23] <tseng> and say, you wrote this didnt you?
[08:24] <Nafallo> lol
[08:24] <ogra> tseng, works absolutely fabolus here ;)
[08:25] <ogra> i think best just didnt answer because beagled had not indexed enough yet
[08:26] <dholbach> how long will beagled look? :)
[08:26] <ogra> dholbach, eternal
[08:27] <ogra> it indexes all the time
[08:27] <Nafallo> tseng: anyone special I should bug? ;-)
[08:27] <dholbach> and it seems to search all the time as well :)
[08:27] <dholbach> eternally :)
[08:27] <schweeb> omg dholbach and ogra
[08:27] <schweeb> wassup
[08:27] <dholbach> hey schweeb :)))
[08:27] <tseng> Nafallo: trow, joe, dsd all rock
[08:27] <ogra> schweeb, beagle on amd64 is up
[08:27] <ogra> :)
[08:27] <schweeb> nice
[08:28] <ogra> Nafallo, mee Novell :)
[08:28] <ogra> meet even
[08:28] <schweeb> but I will be getting my new laptop real soon now
[08:28] <Nafallo> ogra: huga. you're scarying me ;-)
[08:29] <tseng> schweeb: way to snub me
[08:29] <ogra> Nafallo, no need to be scared ;) they are all nice guys.... i met them in stuttgart
[08:29] <schweeb> tseng: oh, I'm too busy shuffling tapes
[08:29] <schweeb> bish
[08:29] <tseng> schweeb: yeah, you're an ass.
[08:29] <ogra> lol
[08:29] <Nafallo> ogra: *s*
[08:30] <ogra> tseng, the file indexer doesnt seem to scan here, it doesnt find the ogra file i created....
[08:31] <dholbach> WOW
[08:31] <tseng> it takes awhile to do everything
[08:31] <dholbach> IT NOW WORKS
[08:31] <dholbach> ROCK
[08:31] <ogra> yay
[08:31] <dholbach> IT FINDS SOMETHING
[08:31] <tseng> dholbach++
[08:31] <schweeb> beagle?
[08:31] <dholbach> yes
[08:31] <ogra> dholbach, it will find *anything*
[08:31] <tseng> sorry its so much trouble right now
[08:31] <dholbach> wonder, if it will make my life easier
[08:31] <tseng> to get it started.
[08:31] <schweeb> boo
[08:31] <schweeb> my laptop is still in "Packing" status
[08:31] <ogra> dholbach, did google make your life easier ?
[08:31] <Nafallo> tseng: I shouldn't trust the deps yet I see ;-)
[08:31] <Nafallo> Could not open Evolution addressbook:
[08:31] <Nafallo> System.DllNotFoundException: libebook-1.2.so.0
[08:32] <tseng> its getting better :)
[08:32] <dholbach> ogra: a bit
[08:32] <ogra> dholbach, so will beagle ;)
[08:32] <tseng> Nafallo: install it
[08:32] <tseng> gosh
[08:32] <tseng> :P
[08:32] <tseng> thats not my package
[08:32] <tseng> its schweeb's
[08:32] <Nafallo> tseng: on my way ;-)
[08:32] <ogra> heh
[08:32] <tseng> evolution-sharp missing dep
[08:32] <schweeb> blah
[08:32] <schweeb> need me to fix it?
[08:33] <schweeb> cause I definitely don't have a breezy install
[08:33] <schweeb> or even a chroot
[08:33] <tseng> no its been sucked into my mini-seb cyclone of doom
[08:33] <ogra> schweeb, you brought it in ?
[08:33] <tseng> ill fix it for you and youll like it.
[08:33] <schweeb> yep
[08:33] <ogra> schweeb, see our policy.... you are doomed ;)
[08:33] <schweeb> "mini-seb cyclone of doom" lol
[08:33] <Nafallo> hehe
[08:33] <schweeb> ogra: yea yea, I know... tseng's on the mofo
[08:34] <dholbach> ROCK, i have PORN on my disk - i didnt even know it
[08:34] <schweeb> hahaha
[08:34] <schweeb> bonus!
[08:34] <Nafallo> lol
[08:34] <tseng> man
[08:34] <Nafallo> I can't find mine :-P
[08:34] <dholbach> so guys, when you download stuff on my box, please tell me the folder
[08:34] <dholbach> thank you :)
[08:34] <schweeb> ogra: I can start being useful again when I get my shiny new laptop from Lenovo ;)
[08:35] <ogra> schweeb, great :)
[08:35] <schweeb> my current laptop needs to be... stable
[08:35] <Nafallo> tseng: it has the index everything before I even stand a chance to find it? :-)
[08:35] <schweeb> so I can VPN to work, and be useful
[08:35] <schweeb> not that I'm really ever that useful at work...
[08:38] <tseng> Nafallo: yes.
[08:38] <tseng> dholbach: can i blog you?
[08:38] <dholbach> tseng: of course :)
[08:38] <tseng> dholbach: thanks :)
[08:38] <dholbach> no matter what i was supposed to be saying :)
[08:39] <tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=33
[08:39] <ogra> hmm, not on planet yet
[08:39] <ogra> i still see asses
[08:39] <tseng> i just posted a second ago :P
[08:40] <ogra> heh
[08:41] <dholbach> :-))
[08:41] <ogra> loool
[08:43] <ogra> meh
[08:43] <ogra> beagled stopped
[08:43] <dholbach> and it didnt look up evo stuff yet
[08:43] <Nafallo> lol
[08:43] <ogra> dholbach, it did here
[08:43] <tseng> you might be missing stuff for evo
[08:43] <tseng> since schweeb sucks at packaging
[08:44] <tseng> er.
[08:44] <Nafallo> dholbach: you must likely have to install libebook-dev for that ;-)
[08:44] <schweeb> oh
[08:44] <schweeb> evo-sharp?
[08:44] <schweeb> that's not me
[08:44] <tseng> was that whip?
[08:44] <ogra> Nafallo, only for the adressbook search...
[08:44] <schweeb> duno
[08:44] <Nafallo> ogra: we want that :-)
[08:44] <tseng> i thought he was working on it and conned you into doing it for him
[08:45] <schweeb> I did esf-sharp or something like that
[08:45] <tseng> anyway, its a common issue
[08:45] <tseng> schweeb: gsf
[08:45] <tseng> with missing dllmaps
[08:45] <schweeb> that's the ticket
[08:45] <Nafallo> wtf! it looks inside my save guadecstreams :-P
[08:45] <Treenaks> Nafallo: inside?
[08:46] <Nafallo> Treenaks: inside.
[08:46] <Treenaks> Nafallo: aalib?
[08:46] <Nafallo> Treenaks: I'll show you if it would be still for a momoent :-P
[08:46] <Nafallo> DEBUG: L A: ,45 2 4,4238881110219
[08:46] <Nafallo> DEBUG:  : =HC (71)
[08:46] <Nafallo> DEBUG: D
[08:46] <Nafallo> DEBUG:  : =B.D.QD+QC =1
[08:46] <Nafallo> DEBUG: F  C ////A.P.P.O.V.8.XXX.DVDR.DX-P0SS/CD2  ,70
[08:46] <tseng> oh jeez
[08:46] <Treenaks> Nafallo: wow
[08:46] <Nafallo> DEBUG: *** R ://////A.P.P.O.V.8.XXX.DVDR.DX-P0SS/CD2/-8. => :XG4GUJU1O_6C4
[08:46] <schweeb> wow
[08:47] <schweeb> thanks for fucking my terminal
[08:47] <dholbach> Nafallo: the blonde in the red dress?
[08:47] <tseng> hah.
[08:47] <tseng> dholbach++
[08:47] <Nafallo> dooh!
[08:47] <Nafallo> that's porn!
[08:47] <tseng> the girl out of the red dress
[08:47] <dholbach> who has nothing under the red dress
[08:48] <bddebian> WHAT???
[08:48] <bddebian> Where??
[08:48] <ogra> bddebian, above
[08:48] <Nafallo> hehe
[08:48] <dholbach> Nafallo: you're a naughty boy
[08:48] <ogra> bddebian, LOOK
[08:48] <bddebian> bah
[08:48] <tseng> bddebian: you need to cross your eyes.
[08:48] <bddebian> heh
[08:48] <Nafallo> dholbach: baah ;-)
[08:49] <Nafallo> hmm, only 10G on my laptop :-P
[08:50] <Nafallo> thank god it doesn't index my server ;-)
[08:50] <Nafallo> tseng: how do I teach it to index my server btw? :-)
[08:50] <ogra> nfs mount ?
[08:50] <tseng> it cant do nfs yet afaik
[08:50] <tseng> when it does it will be totally slow
[08:50] <Nafallo> then I would have to install nfs :-P
[08:50] <tseng> will have to use sqlite
[08:51] <tseng> for the metadata
[08:51] <tseng> instead of being on the file itself
[08:51] <tseng> that means seek city.
[08:52] <Nafallo> hmm
[08:54] <tseng> buh?
[08:56] <dholbach> beagled says there was no disk space anymore
[08:56] <dholbach> and the disk is 42% full
[08:56] <tseng> hm
[08:57] <bradb> hey, MOTU'ers.
[08:57] <bradb> what's your opinion for better task status names: New/Accepted or Unconfirmed/Confirmed?
[08:57] <ogra> hmm
[08:58] <tseng> hm im not sure I have an opinion.
[08:58] <tseng> New/Assigned i think is bugzillaish?
[08:58] <ogra> i think they are quite descriptive....
[08:58] <bradb> ogra: what does Accepted mean?
[08:58] <bradb> (in Malone)
[08:58] <ogra> ok, just leave it New
[08:59] <ogra> but a New bug is a New bug.... you cant describe New better i guess
[08:59] <tseng> Assigned means that the bug has been looked at and assigned to the right person
[08:59] <bradb> ogra: is it a "new bug" if it's not really a bug?
[09:00] <\sh> New is "New but not Accepted by any dev" , Accepted is "Not New anymore, cause dev accepted and recognized it"
[09:00] <tseng> and is no longer new
[09:00] <bradb> tseng: Malone doesn't have Assigned.
[09:00] <tseng> if its not a bug
[09:00] <ogra> bradb, its new if no developer has given it a status
[09:00] <tseng> i can mark it resolved invalid
[09:00] <tseng> im not sure i udnerstand why something has to be confirmed first
[09:01] <tseng> invalid is a resolution to me, not a step in the bug lifetime
[09:01] <ogra> bradb, its assingned if someone got the task to resolve it
[09:01] <ogra> bradb, as long as its not assigned, its unassigned :)
[09:01] <bradb> the word I'm asking you guys to describe to me is "Accepted", not "Assigned"
[09:01] <ogra> drop Accepted
[09:01] <tseng> well im not sure why it needs to be Accepted at all
[09:02] <bradb> tseng: what are you proposing instead?
[09:02] <ogra> its New or not... it will be NOTABUG or CONFIRMED or NEEDINFO if its not new
[09:03] <tseng> what does NEW matter? to me its assigned to a dev or it isnt
[09:03] <tseng> sorry if that doesnt fit into your model.
[09:03] <ogra> yep
[09:03] <bradb> tseng: ok, let's be clear here. what statuses are you proposing exactly?
[09:03] <ogra> tseng, New just mirrors unassigned and unconfirmed
[09:04] <tseng> unconfirmed isnt that useful to me
[09:04] <ogra> tseng, unconfirmed == new == not assigned
[09:04] <tseng> here is my model, someone files a bug, it gets assigned to a generic account
[09:04] <tseng> someoen watches those bugs and assigns them to the right place
[09:05] <\sh> bug-wrangler
[09:05] <tseng> then the assignee fixes the bug and updates the status
[09:05] <tseng> "New" status doesnt mean anything at all
[09:05] <tseng> to me anyway.
[09:05] <tseng> if you have to write something there, New is as good a word as any
[09:05] <ogra> tseng, so whats the difference between your model and the New model.... your generic mailaccount has the same functionallity
[09:06] <tseng> sure you can list all New bugs I guess
[09:06] <ogra> s/New/"New"
[09:06] <tseng> and assign them
[09:06] <tseng> so then its New/Assigned
[09:06] <ogra> its not New anymore if its assigned i think
[09:06] <bradb> right
[09:07] <tseng> then can you auto-adjust the status
[09:07] <tseng> to Accepted when someone assigns the bug for the first time
[09:07] <ogra> i wouldnt use additional status fields ....
[09:08] <bradb> tseng: ...and that's exactly why i think Accepted is a poor name for that status. :) from what you're telling me, you think it means that somebody's assigned to, and working on the bug.
[09:08] <ogra> New/Assigned/Needinfo/Fixed
[09:08] <tseng> well i see the usefulness if you dont have a bug wrangler account
[09:08] <ogra> thats my list of stati i really need
[09:08] <tseng> of having a New status
[09:08] <tseng> for reporting
[09:08] <bradb> tseng: when it could simply mean that the triager has gone through and feels confident that the bug is now assigned on the right thing, has the right severity and priority, and has a complete description.
[09:09] <tseng> bradb: can we have Unassigned/Assigned?
[09:09] <tseng> or new/unassasigned
[09:09] <bradb> tseng: we can infer that from the assignee field, no?
[09:09] <ogra> oh, i forgot Notabug in the above list :)
[09:09] <tseng> we surely can
[09:09] <tseng> if its empty
[09:09] <tseng> you can make a report on that just as easily
[09:09] <tseng> or assign it automatically to a bucket account
[09:10] <ogra> and i guess users want "Reopen"
[09:10] <bradb> ogra: i agree
[09:10] <tseng> bradb: what other big projects do is, someone(s) is bug wrangler
[09:10] <tseng> they get assigned all new bugs
[09:10] <tseng> and get an email for every one
[09:10] <tseng> they know who works on what, and route the bug.
[09:10] <tseng> and set whatever initial status stuff.
[09:10] <ogra> thats what mdz does for main....
[09:11] <bradb> tseng: i'm trying to cater to bug squads too
[09:11] <ogra> eah
[09:11] <ogra> y
[09:11] <tseng> bradb: rock on, so does that make sense?
[09:11] <tseng> file a new bug, assign it to bug-wranglers
[09:11] <ogra> i think a New status is good then....
[09:11] <tseng> they assign it
[09:11] <tseng> so you can make a list of bug-wrangler bugs
[09:11] <tseng> if you want unassigned things.
[09:11] <bradb> ogra: and what about "Accepted" again?
[09:11] <ogra> tseng, we want a bug day with a hell of community involvement....
[09:12] <tseng> bradb: can you tell us what *your* need for the field is?
[09:12] <tseng> maybe that will help too
[09:12] <ogra> so they should be able to just search in malone
[09:12] <bradb> tseng: i did earlier: triagers. :)
[09:12] <tseng> yep
[09:12] <bradb> tseng: picture this scenario:
[09:12] <tseng> well either way works then
[09:12] <ogra> bradb, *i* personally dont need a "Accepted" status....
[09:12] <bradb> you're part of the gnome bug squad
[09:12] <tseng> New or assigned to bug-wranglers
[09:12] <bradb> you find a bug that needs triaging
[09:13] <bradb> you communicate with the reporter
[09:13] <bradb> you're fairly new to this whole thing...you don't know a /lot/ about what everybody does in the project, you just want to help ensure the bug reports are high quality
[09:13] <bradb> so, finally, you've gotten enough info to provide a useful description on the bug, you've assigned it to the right sourcepackage...
[09:13] <bradb> you've set the priority/severity and versioned it correctly
[09:14] <bradb> what status do you put this bug in to say you're done with it? (i.e. that it has enough info for the right person to come along and grab it.)
[09:14] <tseng> ColinCharleQueue!!!
[09:14] <bradb> heh
[09:14] <ogra> you shouldnt set the prio
[09:15] <ogra> that should be done by the devs
[09:15] <tseng> priority should rarely change
[09:15] <tseng> in my experience
[09:15] <ogra> and the user shouldnt have an option to set the status
[09:16] <ogra> its "New" automatically
[09:16] <bradb> ogra: either/or (for example, GNOME's triage guide provides steps on how to set a good priority)...still, what state do you put it in now?
[09:16] <tseng> yes gnome uses confirmed/unconfirmed status and such
[09:16] <ogra> none, i just filed it, it should be New automatically.....
[09:17] <bradb> ogra: "i just filed it" is not the use case i described :)
[09:17] <ogra> i, the user shouldnt need to bother with staus, severity or priority
[09:17] <tseng> ok so you file it the bug its new
[09:17] <tseng> brad wants someone to be able to triage the bug and make it cleaner
[09:17] <tseng> w/o assigning
[09:17] <tseng> and indicate that in status, yes?
[09:17] <ogra> hmm
[09:18] <bradb> tseng: well, more importantly, do *you* *guys* think it's important to be able to distinguish a bug report from "just filed" to "a triager has looked at this; it's got all the info needed for somebody to work on it"
[09:19] <ogra> sorry, but for me the usecase of malone changed since i'm also in main... it has to be a bugzilla replacement for my worknow... so my POV is probably biased wrongly
[09:19] <tseng> ogra: yeah i am also pretty used to bugzilla
[09:19] <tseng> to the point it seems Right to me.
[09:19] <tseng> maybe its wrong :P
[09:19] <ogra> hmm
[09:20] <tseng> bradb: yes, thats not a bad idea
[09:20] <bradb> hence Unconfirmed/Confirmed :)
[09:20] <tseng> and it really does remind me of Colin Charles
[09:20] <tseng> joking aside
[09:20] <bradb> that's your problem
[09:20] <bradb> :P
[09:21] <tseng> Confirmed means something different to me
[09:21] <tseng> i could be wrong
[09:21] <tseng> but i think of bug/notabug or invalid
[09:21] <bradb> tseng: what does "this bug has been confirmed" mean to you?
[09:21] <ogra> bradb, yes, but a bug reviewed by a triager should be assigned after the review :)
[09:21] <tseng> it means "I can reproduce this bug also"
[09:21] <tseng> ogra: yeah I would agree with that
[09:22] <tseng> if they cant figure out how to route the bugs
[09:22] <tseng> we can make a table
[09:22] <tseng> "gnome bugs go to seb"
[09:22] <ogra> yep
[09:22] <Nafallo> dholbach: does you beagled work if you restart it?
[09:22] <dholbach> yeah... for a while, it does
[09:22] <tseng> bradb: what if it was New/Reviewed/Assigned
[09:23] <ogra> so i dont need confirmed/unconfirmed, but i have no idea how to keep pstream compatibility here
[09:23] <Nafallo> dholbach: mine stopped indexing files and addressbooks :-/
[09:24] <bradb> tseng: to me, "Reviewed" means somebody reviewed it, but implies nothing about the outcome of that review. "Assigned", to me, is something that's better inferred from looking at the assignee field, rather than creating a whole other status for it.
[09:24] <tseng> yeah i dont care about it either but i see the usecase
[09:24] <tseng> it would be nice to have people fixing up bugs
[09:24] <ogra> bradb, there simply should be no review without outcome
[09:25] <tseng> i dont care if they did or didnt
[09:25] <tseng> im used to bugs being bogus
[09:25] <Nafallo> hmm
[09:25] <tseng> or rather expect it until proven otherwise
[09:25] <Nafallo> tseng: if I delete .beagle it starts indexing again. I'll see if I can reproduce the error again :-/.
[09:25] <tseng> Nafallo: ok
[09:27] <bradb> tseng, ogra: just to be clear then: as the final word, do you guys think it's useful to have a way of differentiating bugs that haven't been triaged (i.e. brand new bug that just came into the system, could be pr0n link spam for all we know) from bugs that have been looked at by a more experienced person and tidied up to useful describe the problem?
[09:27] <ogra> yep
[09:28] <tseng> sure, its useful
[09:28] <bradb> ok
[09:28] <DanielN_> hi folks :)
[09:28] <tseng> they would probably assign it in the same step
[09:28] <bradb> i'll ponder that with mpt, thanks for your time
[09:29] <tseng> just judging from other big bug trackers
[09:54] <tseng> i cant help that guy
[10:00] <dholbach> sleep tight then, \sh
[10:00] <dholbach> or go have a walk
[10:00] <\sh> no i sleep ...
[10:01] <dholbach> ok then... have a good night
[10:01] <\sh> tomorrow I'm back in old mood :)
[10:01] <\sh> cu guys.
[10:01] <dholbach> :-)
[10:01] <dholbach> bye \sh
[10:53] <Nafallo> tseng: :-)
[10:55] <Nafallo> tseng: have you done something evil to daniels yet? ;-)
[11:04] <dholbach> beagle needs to have a look at xchatlogs
[11:04] <dholbach> and emails :-/
[11:04] <dholbach> that's be perfect
[11:04] <Nafallo> dholbach: it does e-mails?
[11:04] <dholbach> it should
[11:04] <dholbach> but doesnt do for me
[11:06] <Nafallo> dholbach: right. it doesn't.
[11:36] <ogra> dholbach, it should do xchat logs, they are only text files
[11:37] <ogra> and since it scans the filesystem (including . dirs) it should do them too....
[11:37] <dholbach> they don't seem indexed
[11:37] <ogra> how long does beagled run for you now? mine started crashing at some point
[11:38] <dholbach> yeah, i re-ran it then
[11:38] <dholbach> HOLY CRAP - 300 mb of swap
[11:38] <ogra> heh
[11:38] <ogra> yep
[11:39] <dholbach> i have a hell lot of "[beagled-index-h]  <defunct>"
[11:39] <ogra> heh
[11:39] <ogra> yep
[11:40] <dholbach> that's what i thought...
[11:40] <dholbach> :-p
[11:44] <ogra> :)
[11:44] <ogra> :)
[11:45] <lsuactiafner> anyone here use tc to do bandwidth limiting?
[11:45] <lsuactiafner> or can anyone suggest an easier solution?
[11:46] <ogra> money
[11:46] <lsuactiafner> actually wrong window.
[11:46] <dholbach> for one time actions i use trickle
[11:46] <Nafallo> lsuactiafner: wondershaper :-)
[11:46] <ogra> you could buy a big leased line with it :)
[11:46] <ogra> its the easiest solution i think....
[11:47] <Nafallo> hmm, does there exist a MOTURFP wikipage? ;-)
[11:48] <abarbaccia> hey - anybody know a good program that might be in universe that you can use to make movies from a slideshow with music and such
[11:48] <ogra> dunno if kino can do it.....
[11:49] <ogra> or cinepaint probably .....
[11:49] <lsuactiafner> Nafallo : thanks
[11:49] <tseng> Nafallo: no
[11:49] <lsuactiafner> i wrote a tc script but it doesnt work like it should
[11:49] <abarbaccia> lsuactiafner, sorry to hear that
[11:49] <abarbaccia> lol
[11:49] <ogra> Nafallo, UniverseCandidates
[11:50] <Nafallo> tseng: thought so. I tried to install tomboy again ;-)
[11:50] <lsuactiafner> ogra : there are no big leased lines in this country
[11:51] <Nafallo> ogra: RFP, Request For Packaging :-)
[11:51] <ogra> ah, damned, then this solution isnt the easiest :)
[11:51] <ogra> Nafallo, UniverseCandidates ;)
[11:51] <tseng> koke rocks!!!!!!
[11:52] <ogra> Nafallo, thats our RFP page
[11:52] <Nafallo> hehe, oki
[11:52] <tseng>    * don't warn on -0ubuntu1 versions (thanks to koke for the patch)
[11:52] <ogra> tseng, wrt dput ?
[11:52] <tseng>      (closes ubuntu #10878)
[11:52] <ogra> :)
[11:52] <tseng> yes.
[11:55] <Nafallo> lol
[11:55] <Nafallo> FreeDoko ;-)


[15:19] <jemoh_> Am new to pygtk and am trying to learn it and everytime I write code using vim and try to execute it this is what I get: jemoh@Hiuhu:~$ ./window.py bash: ./window.py: /usr/bin/env/python: bad interpreter: Not a directory what could be the problem ?
[15:38] <gnufs> it should be "/usr/bin/env python", not "/usr/bin/env/python" at the beginning of your script
[15:57] <jemoh_> I have tried it and this is what I get:
[15:57] <jemoh_> jemoh@Hiuhu:~$ ./window.py   File "./window.py", line 19     if __name__ == "__main__"                               ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax
[15:57] <jemoh_> The code am trying to run is:
[15:58] <jemoh_> http://pastebin.com/WpynceXk
[16:01] <tsimpson> jemoh_: you're missing the : at the end of the line
[16:03] <jemoh_> ok thanx alot it worked