[12:25] <Lathiat> do we still need to fakesync stuff from debian?
[12:26] <LaserJock> I believe so, but I'm not sure
[12:26] <Lathiat> well, i guess it cant hurt
[12:29] <Erlang> a fake sabdf posted on debian-devel
[12:29] <na7e> ha
[12:29] <Lathiat> haha
[12:29] <LaserJock> it wasn't a very good fake even ;-)
[12:30] <na7e> maybe you guys can help, it's rather silly, how can you check programmatically if dpkg is locked by another process?
[12:30] <Lathiat> whats the thread?
[12:30] <Lathiat> see /var/lib/dpkg
[12:30] <Lathiat> probabgly a file or something
[12:30] <na7e> kk
[12:30] <Lathiat>  /var/lib/dpkg/lock
[12:30] <Lathiat> ? :)
[12:31] <Lathiat> whats the details of that email to d-d ?
[12:31] <Lathiat> i cant see it
[12:31] <Lathiat> unless its really recent and the archives havent picked up yet
[12:31] <LaserJock> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/03/msg00894.html
[12:32] <mgalvin> in case anyone has time, i opened and uploaded a patch for  Bug #35773
[12:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35773 in awstats "awstats_configure.pl fails" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35773
[12:32] <Lathiat> so
[12:32] <Lathiat> that is just... crap
[12:33] <Lathiat> i could make up a better fake in my sleep
[12:34] <Lathiat> even spelt th ename wrong lol
[12:35] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[12:35] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[01:06] <slomo_> LaserJock: ping?
[01:07] <LaserJock> slomo_: yeah, saw it
[01:07] <slomo_> LaserJock: ok ;)
[01:07] <LaserJock> slomo_: so am I supposed to upload it?
[01:08] <slomo_> LaserJock: yes... do a fakesync or do required changes and upload then :)
[01:08] <LaserJock> slomo_: k, cool
[01:20] <tseng> whiprush: hahahahaha
[01:20] <tseng> whiprush: you got me.
[01:20] <whiprush> tseng: I was looking for you before I put that up.
[01:21] <whiprush> oops, better resize for planet
[01:21] <tseng> haha
[01:21] <whiprush> that's just rude
[01:40] <nictuku> I've just uploaded a package to revu
[01:40] <nictuku> python-sysinfo is required for the upcoming nwu-agent
[02:24] <ajmitch> hi
[02:25] <nictuku> I've read in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU that I could use dput -f to force upload of an already uploaded file
[02:25] <nictuku> It's not working, though
[02:25] <nictuku> should I change the package version?
[02:29] <ajmitch> nictuku: what do you mean, it doesn't work?
[02:30] <nictuku> 553 Could not create file.
[02:30] <nictuku> dput -f doesn't work
[02:30] <nictuku> I mean, not as *I* expected
[02:30] <ajmitch> more info, if possible..?
[02:30] <nictuku> sure
[02:30] <ajmitch> what did you try & upload, and what did you type?
[02:30] <ajmitch> hm, a binary upload
[02:30] <ajmitch> don't do that :)
[02:31] <nictuku> I've uploaded pycacic_0.3-1 with dput pycacic_0.3-1_i386.changes
[02:31] <ajmitch> please build a source package & upload that
[02:31] <nictuku> Later I changed debian/control
[02:31] <nictuku> oh I see
[02:31] <nictuku> sorry
[02:31] <ajmitch> & you'll also want to build it as a non-native package
[02:32] <nictuku> I tried so. heh
[02:32] <ajmitch> so you should upload pycacic_0.3-1_source.changes
[02:32] <ajmitch> you have pycacic_0.3.orig.tar.gz ?
[02:33] <nictuku> no, but the directory is "pycacic-0.3"
[02:33] <nictuku> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa, seems to be working
[02:33] <ajmitch> you must have pycacic_0.3.orig.tar.gz
[02:33] <ajmitch> almost always it's a rename of the original tarball
[02:35] <nictuku> ok now I do
[02:36] <nictuku> the .orig.tar.gz has debian/*, is that a problem?
[02:36] <ajmitch> yes
[02:36] <ajmitch> did you create this tarball yourself?
[02:36] <nictuku> it's upstream
[02:36] <nictuku> yes, I am upstream
[02:36] <MarioMeyer> we are both upstream and packaging, ajmitch
[02:36] <nictuku> MarioMeyer, I'm not packaging nwu right now, though
[02:36] <ajmitch> it's still a good idea to separate packaging from upstream work
[02:37] <ajmitch> I imagine that the coulud be useful for other distributions, or derivatives
[02:37] <ajmitch> and you don't want to make a full release just for a packaging change :)
[02:37] <nictuku> hmm
[02:38] <nictuku> how do you think I should organize that in the subversion rep?
[02:38] <nictuku> currently it's all in trunk/ and tags/, with debian/ being part of the upstream distro package
[02:38] <ajmitch> separate repositories, or separate branches?
[02:45] <ajmitch> time to go to RAID
[02:45] <nictuku> good luck =]
[02:46] <chillywilly> fun
[02:46] <chillywilly> how big is your RAID?
[02:47] <ajmitch> I've got 3 250GB SATA drives
[02:49] <chillywilly> nice
[02:50] <chillywilly> ~500GB if you go with RAID 5
[02:52] <ajmitch> or I could risk it all & go for RAID 0
[02:53] <Erlang> 750gb, that's a lot for a personnal computer!
[02:53] <tseng> ajmitch: raid 5?
[02:53] <ajmitch> tseng: hm?
[02:53] <tseng> raid 5..
[02:53] <ajmitch> what about it?
[02:53] <ajmitch> I haven't decided which way I'll set it up
[02:54] <tseng> twtwo disks dstripe
[02:54] <chillywilly> ajmitch: this is going to eb software RAID?
[02:54] <chillywilly> be*
[02:54] <ajmitch> chillywilly: of course
[02:54] <tseng> ugh
[02:54] <tseng> two disks stripe, one "mirrors"
[02:54] <chillywilly> :)
[02:55] <Erlang> uses...
[02:56] <ajmitch> backing up 750GB takes a little while
[02:56] <chillywilly> heh :)
[02:56] <ajmitch> and I mainly want a large, fast space for building stuff
[02:56] <tseng> rdiff-backup rocks
[02:56] <ajmitch> which can be thrown away
[02:57] <azeem> ajmitch: 750GB? Are you building OpenOffic?
[02:57] <Erlang> rdiff-backup,  never looked at that.
[02:57] <chillywilly> c/dev/sdb1             699G  124G  575G  18% /mnt/raid
[02:58] <ajmitch> azeem: nah, though I might try for all of universe one week :)
[02:58] <chillywilly> psycho ;)
[02:58] <azeem> you could remove built packages again
[02:58] <ajmitch> sure
[02:58] <Erlang> oh, rdiff backup seems nice.   ;-P
[03:02] <chillywilly> I wish...
[03:03] <chillywilly> brb
[03:06] <Erlang> There is one stupid guy on d.devel right now -_-
[03:08] <ajmitch> Erlang: only one? :)
[03:09] <bddebian> Well I'm there so I guess that's two :-)
[03:09] <Erlang> Well, this one is stupidER.
[03:09] <ajmitch> certainly
[03:10] <azeem> you mean the mailing list, I assume
[03:10] <ajmitch> azeem: yes
[03:10] <ajmitch> someone pretending to be sabdfl
[03:10] <Erlang> He just sent a lengthy message complaining about Debian...
[03:10] <Erlang> and its lack of leadership.
[03:11] <ajmitch> s/message/rant/
[03:12] <Erlang> yes.
[03:18] <marcin`> hello MOTUs
[03:18] <marcin`> short question - what happened with Flash plugin for mozilla? why it's removed from dapper repository?
[03:22] <bmonty> marcin`: are you refering to flashplugin-nonfree?
[03:23] <crimsun> marcin`: 1) it was illegally distributed; 2) it was outdated; 3) flashplugin-nonfree is the way to go
[03:24] <crimsun> marcin`: I asked for it to be removed, and it was for those reasons.
[03:24] <nictuku> nonfree is the way to go?
[03:24] <crimsun> flashplugin-nonfree as opposed to the obsoleted flashplayer-mozilla, yes
[03:25] <crimsun> note that flashplayer-mozilla breaks the license completely, as we're not allowed to distribute that binary
[03:25] <nictuku> you mean flashplayer-mozilla is the way to go, right?
[03:25] <marcin`> bmonty: not - to flashplugin-mozilla
[03:25] <nictuku> oh
[03:25] <crimsun> no, I very much mean flashplugin-nonfree is the way to go.
[03:26] <marcin`> crimsun: well ok - but the thing is that now my flash plugin doesn;t work
[03:26] <marcin`> crimsun: I'll try to reinstall flashplayer-nonfree
[03:26] <crimsun> marcin`: please check the dependencies, and file a bug.
[03:26] <marcin`> /s/flashplayer/flashplugin
[03:27] <marcin`> crimsun: now it's not about dependencies
[03:27] <marcin`> crimsun: if it doesn't work after I removed flashplugin-mozilla
[03:27] <bmonty> crimsun: why do we have multiple flash players anyway?  shouldn't it the shockwave player and the GNU one when it is more mature?
[03:27] <crimsun> flashplugin-mozilla?
[03:27] <marcin`> crimsun: than it means that it's not configured
[03:28] <crimsun> what is this flashplugin-mozilla?
[03:31] <marcin`> crimsun: sorry - it was flashplayer...
[03:31] <crimsun> marcin`: ok, so are you saying that because you removed flashplayer-mozilla and installed flashplugin-nonfree, Flash applets don't play?
[03:32] <marcin`> crimsun: yes
[03:32] <crimsun> marcin`: which browser?
[03:32] <marcin`> crimsun: now I reinstalled flashplugin-nonfree and it doesn't work with ffox and epiphany
[03:33] <crimsun> marcin`: do you have a test case?
[03:34] <marcin`> ?
[03:34] <bmonty> marcin`: did you run update-flashplugin?
[03:34] <crimsun> marcin`: an example Web site containing a Flash applet that fails to work?
[03:34] <marcin`> crimsun: sure - and about:plugins
[03:35] <crimsun> did you execute what bmonty mentioned?
[03:35] <marcin`> bmonty: thanks
[03:35] <bmonty> with a "sudo" of course :)
[03:35] <marcin`> crimsun: yes it helped
[03:36] <crimsun> excellent.
[03:36] <marcin`> you really should add info about this in package description
[03:37] <marcin`> or add this to postinst script...
[03:37] <nictuku> should I show someone else my package before sending to revu? It's a python library, required for nwu (my implementation of the NetworkWideUpdates spec)
[03:38] <marcin`> another thing is that these ^&*^&*& 'nice guys' from Macromedia could create Flash 8 plugin for Linux
[03:38] <nictuku> I don't want to waste reviewers time with maybe a crappy package
[03:38] <whiprush> nictuku: are you the guy doing NWU?
[03:38] <nictuku> whiprush, yes
[03:38] <whiprush> that's awesome.
[03:39] <nictuku> :-)
[03:39] <nictuku> we're looking for volunteer testers
[03:39] <crimsun> bmonty: need to modify postinst so that a fresh install will invoke update-flashplugin
[03:39] <whiprush> nictuku: I have it pulled from your repo but have had no time.
[03:39] <crimsun> bmonty: currently it fails to do so, which explains marcin`'s symptoms
[03:39] <bmonty> crimsun: yup, I can work on that over the next couple days
[03:39] <crimsun> bmonty: great, thanks.
[03:39] <nictuku> whiprush, statistics say you probably got a buggy version :-)
[03:39] <whiprush> er, I meant nictuku
[03:40] <whiprush> I look forward to playing with it.
[03:41] <whiprush> debian/ubuntu has needed a free-RHN type thing for a while
[03:41] <nictuku> nice, please let me and MarioMeyer - which is also in the development team - know how did it work for you
[03:41] <whiprush> when I get to playing with it I will file bugs
[03:42] <whiprush> iirc you guys had trac setup and all that already
[03:42] <bmonty> crimsun: the package actually already has a postinst to download the plugin...odd
[03:42] <crimsun> bmonty: right, but it seems to fail
[03:42] <nictuku> yes https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu
[03:42] <nictuku> python-sysinfo is a requirment, though, and I'm trying to make it go to universe first
[03:43] <crimsun> (chasing more ALSA boogs atm, or I'd file a bug)
[03:43] <nictuku> then I'll try to push nwu-agent and nwu-server
[03:43] <bmonty> crimsun: I think there is already a bug open for this
[03:43] <crimsun> k
[03:43] <nictuku> then, if reviewers "ok" the packages, I'll write an ITP bug in debian and ask for inclusion in ubuntu's main
[03:44] <marcin`> crimsun, bmonty: thanks for help
[03:50] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[03:50] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[03:51] <crimsun> ok, let's work on this python package
[03:51] <bmonty> what is the default debconf priority?
[03:51] <LaserJock> yeah, I got a UVF exception done!
[03:51] <crimsun> LaserJock: hooray!
[03:51] <crimsun> nictuku: url to upid on revu?
[03:52] <bmonty> LaserJock: you have now officially surpased bddebian :)
[03:52] <nictuku> I did not upload it to revu yet.. I'm afraid it's too buggy to even be in revu :-P
[03:52] <crimsun> them's fightin' werds!
[03:52] <nictuku> should I do it anyway?
[03:52] <crimsun> nictuku: yes
[03:52] <ajmitch> bmonty: not possible
[03:52] <nictuku> ok wait a second
[03:52] <bmonty> ajmitch: you're right...what was I thinking?
[03:52] <bddebian> Doh :'-(
[03:53] <ajmitch> you can't have been thinking! :)
[03:53] <nictuku> Successfully uploaded packages.
[03:53] <nictuku> now we wait for revu update, right?
[03:54] <LaserJock> bmonty: I don't know that I'll ever surpase bddebian ;-)
[03:54] <crimsun> pretty much, then we'll start looking over it
[03:54] <ajmitch> heh nice
[03:54] <bddebian> Oh stop it.  I've been useless :-(
[03:55] <ajmitch> I put in the flight-5 install cd, and up pops a window saying I've got an ubuntu cd in the drive, asking if I want to install packages..
[03:55] <crimsun> bddebian: dude you have megakarma from breezy
[03:56] <whiprush> LegendKarma
[03:56] <LaserJock> bmonty: thanks for working on stellarium.
[03:56] <bddebian> No, it dropped way down didn't it?
[03:56] <LaserJock> whiprush: +1
[03:56] <crimsun> bddebian: sure, but what does that matter?
[03:56] <bmonty> LaserJock: np....easy desktop file fix
[03:56] <ajmitch> bddebian: we still can't compete
[03:56] <bddebian> Becuase I've been a total slacker for Dapper :'-(
[03:56] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah right, you kicked my ass :-)
[03:56] <bmonty> bddebian: you are just resting up for dapper+1
[03:56] <crimsun> aye
[03:56] <LaserJock> bddebian: you still have quite a bit more karma than me
[03:57] <bmonty> LaserJock: stellarium is a very cool program BTW
[03:57] <bddebian> LaserJock: Then I had better get busy to make sure you don't catch up.. ;-)
[03:58] <bddebian> Doh, that isn't much :-)
[04:00] <LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, I tried it out today (for a bug report). Quite cool. I sent an email to my Grandpa (Windows user and astronomy buff) about it. He is going to check it out.
[04:00] <bmonty> better than nothing
[04:01] <bmonty> LaserJock: they have a windows version on their website....I need to make one of those panoramic photos for my house
[04:01] <bmonty> and then have it track the ISS so I might actually be able to see it for once :)
[04:02] <LaserJock> yeah, it would be cool to input your own landscape picture
[04:09] <bmonty> how do I find out what the default priority is for debconf?
[04:13] <nictuku> after uploading to revu I must wait till it appears in http://revu.tauware.de/, right?
[04:14] <LaserJock> nictuku: yeah, although if it is taking a loong time it might have been rejected or something
[04:15] <nictuku> loong like 1 day or 1 hour?
[04:15] <ajmitch> nictuku: 5 minutes if you did a correct upload
[04:15] <nictuku> I was dumb enough to send the binary package first
[04:15] <nictuku> oh
[04:15] <ajmitch> nictuku: binaries are a no-no :)
[04:15] <nictuku> yeah
[04:16] <nictuku> dput pycacic_0.3-1_source.changes
[04:16] <LaserJock> ajmitch: we should have a checkinstall section ;-)
[04:16] <ajmitch> nictuku: and are you in the uploaders keyring?
[04:16] <ajmitch> LaserJock: wash your mouth out
[04:16] <nictuku> ahmm no, I thought I didnt have to..
[04:17] <ajmitch> nictuku: it's somewhat mandatory ;)
[04:17] <nictuku> oh it doesn't need to be signed
[04:17] <ajmitch> what's your gpg key id, and is it on a keyserver?
[04:17] <nictuku> 29CDFF51
[04:17] <nictuku> yes it is, including keyserver.ubuntu.com
[04:18] <nictuku> it's signed by a DD if that helps anything
[04:18] <nictuku> should I send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[04:18] <LaserJock> nictuku: I think ajmitch is taking care of it ;-)
[04:19] <nictuku> I thought so :-P
[04:19] <nictuku> thanks ajmitch
[04:26] <ajmitch> will do in a min
[04:27] <bmonty> goodnight everyone
[04:47] <ajmitch> nictuku: btw your upload is on the REVU page now
[04:48] <nictuku> thank you
[04:50] <Kyral> hey guys
[04:50] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[04:50] <Kyral> hey LJ
[04:51] <Kyral> Gah gym felt good
[04:51] <Kyral> and the shower after felt BETTER :D
[05:08] <ajmitch> hello Kyral
[05:09] <nictuku> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2164 I'd appreciate comments if you guys find some time
[05:09] <Kyral> ajmitch
[05:10] <ajmitch> ok, 450GB ought to be about enough for building
[05:14] <na7e> hi ajmitch, Kyral
[05:15] <ajmitch> hello na7e
[05:22] <nictuku> bye all
[05:25] <na7e> whatcha installin?
[05:26] <ajmitch> flight 5
[05:26] <na7e> oh, cool
[05:28] <na7e> my hellish week of customizing the installer cd is finally over.....and i failed....
[05:33] <irvin> na7e, try again :D
[05:33] <na7e> irvin, nein!!!!!!!
[05:33] <na7e> irvin, unless you wanna help
[05:34] <irvin> na7e, thanks but i'll pass ;)
[05:35] <ajmitch> crap, grub doesn't even load
[05:35] <na7e> irvin, can you try and see if my website is working?  it should really just be a directory: http://www.sutton.cc
[05:36] <na7e> ajmitch, ouch, where specifically does it fail?  not findin the partition?
[05:36] <ajmitch> na7e: no, I mean it doesn't even load
[05:36] <ajmitch> it just shows a blinking cursor
[05:36] <na7e> oh sweeeet
[05:36] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:37] <na7e> ajmitch, would you mind checkin to see if my website is publicly accessible?  it's www.sutton.cc
[05:37] <ajmitch> and I made sure that /boot was on a physical partition :)
[05:37] <na7e> ajmitch, hrm...
[05:37] <na7e> ajmitch, ok, thanks
[05:37] <na7e> ajmitch, i might have to do a port redirect thingie
[05:48] <ajmitch> I wasn't cackling
[05:48] <ajmitch> oh dear, that worked
[05:48] <na7e> lolz
[05:48] <ajmitch> obviously the bios & the kernel have different drive enumerations
[05:49] <ajmitch> so I lost my 2 swap partitions
[05:49] <ajmitch> hopefully I've got enough RAM not to need them :)
[05:52] <na7e> icky
[05:52] <ajmitch> quite
[05:53] <ajmitch> so I have to work out which one the bios thinks should be sda1
[05:53] <na7e> oh man, thats so ugly
[05:54] <ajmitch> true
[05:56] <ajmitch> it could be worse
[05:56] <na7e> yeah....could it? ;)
[05:57] <ajmitch> sure, the whole thing could have failed to work at all
[05:57] <ajmitch> eg if my SATA controller wasn't supported properly
[05:57] <na7e> at least if it didn't work it would be clean cut that it simply didn't work.  now you've got a mess
[05:57] <ajmitch> nah
[05:58] <ajmitch> now it'll take me about 5 minutes to work out which one is correct
[05:58] <ajmitch> & go from there
[06:00] <Se7h> ALOHA
[06:00] <Se7h> ups, sorry the caps
[06:00] <ajmitch> hi
[06:01] <Se7h> otr
[06:01] <Se7h> do u know any app for windows to detect hardware that hasn't been installed? (onboard stuff that need drivers)
[06:02] <Se7h> this laptop is killing me
[06:03] <ajmitch> sorry, I don't do windows :)
[06:03] <Se7h> neither do i
[06:03] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:04] <Se7h> hi
[06:04] <StevenK> ajmitch: You're switching root drives?
[06:06] <ajmitch> StevenK: nah, not really
[06:06] <ajmitch> it's a fresh install on 3 SATA drives
[06:06] <StevenK> Ah
[06:07] <ajmitch> so I'll have to migrate all my crap that's accumulated over the last 5 years or so onto a new install
[06:07] <ajmitch> more like about 7 years, actually
[06:08] <StevenK> Heh
[06:08] <StevenK> I switched /home's, and the old crap is still available via NFS.
[06:08] <ajmitch> that's the problem with debian systems
[06:08] <ajmitch> just no need to reinstall :)
[06:09] <StevenK> nfs:/home/steven       29G   15G   13G  53% /media/infected
[06:09] <ajmitch> hah
[06:09] <ajmitch> infected? :)
[06:10] <StevenK> Yes
[06:10] <StevenK> % hostname
[06:10] <StevenK> liquified
[06:10] <ajmitch> /dev/mapper/scratch-scratch
[06:10] <ajmitch>                       410G  129M  406G   1% /usr/local
[06:10] <StevenK> Hah, I win
[06:10] <StevenK> nfs:/srv/media        429G  391G   38G  92% /media/media
[06:10] <ajmitch> I bet it'll fill up in 6 months
[06:11] <StevenK> I suspect so.
[06:11] <ajmitch> poor wireless connection
[06:12] <ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
[06:12] <Kyral> You missed arseclown
[06:12] <ajmitch> poor Hobbsee, gets squashed all the time :)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
[06:12] <StevenK> ajmitch: Ugh. How much music?
[06:12] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:12] <StevenK> Ow!
[06:12] <ajmitch> StevenK: only about 5GB
[06:12] <Hobbsee> StevenK: hehe!  yes, i hit hard
[06:12] <StevenK> Hobbsee: But I like jumping on you!
[06:12] <Kyral> StevenK: you get off me NOW or I hurt you :P
[06:13] <Hobbsee> LOL!
[06:13] <Kyral> Good boy
[06:13] <ajmitch> everyone acting like kids in here
[06:13] <Kyral> I would hate to have to lop of your valubles
[06:13] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: who, us?  *looks innocent*
[06:14] <StevenK> Heh
[06:14] <Kyral> ajmitch: C'mon, goofing off is heathly
[06:14] <Kyral> healthy even
[06:15] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch:  you in the land of aussie still, or back in NZ?
[06:17] <Kyral> anyway I'm going to bed
[06:17] <Kyral> night all
[06:17] <Hobbsee> night Kyral
[06:18] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:18] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: back in NZ
[06:18] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: lucky
[06:19] <ajmitch> yep :)
[06:19] <Kyral> Whats so good about NZ...
[06:19] <na7e> it's not au
[06:19] <na7e> j/k, never been there
[06:19] <LaserJock> cya Kyral
[06:20] <na7e> never even been in that hemisphere even
[06:20] <Hobbsee> Kyral: just that where ajmitch was (queensland) has a massive hurricane going through there at the moment
[06:20] <na7e> Kyral, gnite
[06:20] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: isn't it a cyclone ;-)
[06:20] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: thankfully that's a bit further north than brisbane, but I've got family up in cairns
[06:20] <Hobbsee> ah ok, ouch
[06:21] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: could be, i dont remember :P - it was asked if i was effected by it, and i remembered about ajmitch
[06:21] <ajmitch> & mackay
[06:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes we call them cyclones here
[06:22] <LaserJock> I just thought it was odd that on the US news it turned into a cyclone even though we call them hurricanes
[06:22] <ajmitch> yeah
[06:22] <ajmitch> cyclone is the meteorological term :)
[06:23] <na7e> it's a southern-northern thing tight?  northern hemisphere it's a hurricane and southern it's a cyclone
[06:23] <na7e> aren't they also called typhoons?
[06:23] <ajmitch> they are
[06:23] <LaserJock> yeah, stupid Americans apparently don't agree with meteorologists ;-)
[06:24] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:24] <LaserJock> but I'm a US scientist so Im'used to the whole Imperial vs. Metric thing ;-)
[06:24] <Hobbsee> yes, americans are stupid, who told them to use inches and all that rubbish anyway?
[06:25] <ajmitch> painful slow
[06:25] <ajmitch> too many fixes since flight 5
[06:25] <Hobbsee> LOL!
[06:26] <ajmitch> fun, winds of up to 290kmh
[06:27] <na7e> ajmitch, well, i have no idea how fast that is (americans......)
[06:28] <ajmitch> sigh..
[06:28] <ajmitch> about 180mph
[06:28] <tritium> LaserJock: you're at UNR, right?
[06:28] <LaserJock> tritium: yeah
[06:28] <LaserJock> tritium: sandia?
[06:28] <tritium> LaserJock: yes.  We have 2 of your alums in our dept.
[06:29] <LaserJock> tritium: cool, what field?
[06:29] <tritium> LaserJock: one is an E.E., and another has a degree in materials science, I believe
[06:30] <LaserJock> tritium: there is some cool materials science/mechanical eng. stuff here
[06:31] <tritium> LaserJock: yeah?
[06:31] <LaserJock> tritium: I'm into the nanoscience/surface surface science end of chemistry myself
[06:31] <tritium> cool
[06:32] <LaserJock> I was actually looking at sandia postdocs last night
[06:33] <tritium> LaserJock: that would rock if you came out here.
[06:34] <LaserJock> yeah, just need to convince my wife to move to NM.
[06:34] <tritium> It's beautiful.
[06:35] <LaserJock> well, we are from Montana so it would be pretty different ;-)
[06:35] <tritium> just a bit ;)
[06:36] <LaserJock> but we made it to NV so we are ~ half way there
[06:36] <tritium> It's very similar
[06:41] <LaserJock> alright, I gotta get to be
[06:41] <LaserJock> cya everybody
[06:41] <crimsun> 'night
[06:41] <tritium> good night, crimsun
[06:42] <Hobbsee> night crimsun
[06:42] <crimsun> (actually that was for jordan)
[06:43] <tritium> heh, good night LaserJock
[06:43] <LaserJock> thanks crimsun ;-)
[06:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:47] <Mithrandir> good morning people
[06:47] <crimsun> morning Mithrandir
[06:52] <ajmitch> crimsun: sound works perfectly fine on kernel 19.29
[06:52] <ajmitch> hi Mithrandir
[06:58] <ajmitch> crimsun: wireless does as well, which is useful seeing as there was an ipw2200 update :)
[06:59] <Erlang> VGcats updated!
[07:04] <gnu_style> how can I become involved?
[07:05] <crimsun> ajmitch: brilliant, thanks
[07:05] <gnu_style> how can I become involved?
[07:06] <Erlang> isn't there a wiki page for that? I can't find it.
[07:06] <Hobbsee> gnu_style: see the bottom of wiki.ubuntu.com
[07:06] <Hobbsee> i think thta's where it is
[07:06] <Erlang> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate <= this?
[07:06] <Hobbsee> i'd say so
[07:25] <ajmitch> ok, got the right /boot sorted now :)
[08:19] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[08:35] <woodwizzle> Hello, I'm planning on creating my own LiveCD based on ubuntu, much like the mono-livecd.
[08:35] <woodwizzle> I'm just looking for some basic info to get me started, I've never done anything like it before and dunno where to begin
[08:41] <Toadstool> woodwizzle: take a look at wiki.ubuntu.com, I think there's a LiveCD customization howto
[08:41] <woodwizzle> just found it thanks
[08:41] <woodwizzle> I have some less technical, more legalish gpl questions though
[08:43] <woodwizzle> Though I'll use this liveCD myself, my goal is to spread it to introduce people to linux, much like the mono liveCD
[08:43] <woodwizzle> Is it OK for me to include the nvidia and ati drivers pre-installed? And if not, what would I need to do to make it ok., because these are vital for this project
[08:46] <juuva> licences included in those packets should tell that
[08:47] <woodwizzle> juuva, you mean packages?
[08:48] <juuva> yes
[08:49] <juuva> haven't ever used those thou
[08:50] <woodwizzle> is there a easy way to find those (on my system I mean)
[08:50] <Spec> yes
[08:50] <woodwizzle> like is there something like a manpage
[08:50] <woodwizzle> Spec, yes i can find them or yes i can include them?
[08:50] <Spec> there should be a COPYRIGHT file with every package
[08:51] <woodwizzle> Spec, cool. didn't know that, that'll help me alot
[08:51] <woodwizzle> is there a copyright command like man reads all the manpages?
[08:51] <Spec> > ( "As indicated in the NVIDIA Software License, Linux distributions
[08:51] <Spec> >   are welcome to repackage and redistribute the NVIDIA Linux driver in
[08:51] <Spec> >   whatever package format they wish." )
[08:52] <Spec> although, you should read the licenses carefully
[08:53] <Spec> vim /usr/share/doc/nvidia-glx/copyright
[08:53] <Spec> I don't know anything about ATI, but I'm sure there's a copyright file with whatever packages install the ati driver
[08:53] <Spec> to find them easily, dpkg -L <packagename> |grep -i copyright
[08:57] <Spec> Anyone know when the next CC meeting is?
[09:11] <ajmitch> Spec: not announced yet, afaik
[04:11] <jamessan> anyone know why the vim-ruby package isn't built?  I see an entry in the changelog about it being disable but I don't see a reason why
[04:13] <crimsun> jamessan: probably better addressed to mdz
[04:31] <Amaranth> ack
[04:31] <Amaranth> i wish i could do something for \sh
[04:32] <crimsun> what's happening with him?
[04:32] <Mithrandir> he's hungry.
[04:32] <bddebian> What's the matter with \sh?
[04:32] <Mithrandir> bddebian: read planet.u.c
[04:34] <crimsun> d'oh, I was checking fridge
[04:34] <bddebian> Egads, how can we get him some money?
[04:35] <Amaranth> i could send him $50 USD if i knew how
[04:35] <Amaranth> but it wouldn't help much in EU, i don't think
[04:35] <bddebian> Yeah I'd send some too..
[04:35] <G0SUB> oh! this is real?
[04:36] <G0SUB> my god! I can't imagine this happening to him ...
[04:36] <bddebian> G0SUB: I don't take \sh as the type to kid about such things
[04:36] <G0SUB> honestly, I can't imagine this thing ....
[04:36] <Amaranth> he kind of did all this on purpose
[04:36] <G0SUB> Amaranth: can we talk to sabdfl ?
[04:36] <Erlang> I'm a poor student and even I would send some...
[04:37] <Amaranth> i don't think he expected it to get this bad
[04:37] <bddebian> Amaranth: ?
[04:37] <G0SUB> Amaranth: how did he do this on purpose?
[04:37] <Amaranth> he quit his job
[04:37] <crimsun> well regardless the circumstances, it still sucks, and we're still a team
[04:38] <tseng> you can wire money anywhere with western union
[04:38] <Amaranth> i know
[04:38] <tseng> but we take a big cut
[04:38] <bddebian> Is anyone near him?
[04:38] <Amaranth> tseng: you work for western union? :)
[04:38] <G0SUB> Amaranth: why did he quit his job without any savings?
[04:38] <tseng> Amaranth: my company owns 51% of WU
[04:38] <Amaranth> G0SUB: burnout
[04:38] <tseng> Amaranth: we are spinning them off
[04:38] <Amaranth> we need some way of contacting him
[04:39] <G0SUB> Amaranth: can't sabdfl help too?
[04:39] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[04:39] <G0SUB> hell, he hasn't eaten since the last few days !!
[04:40] <bddebian> Well he was able to post that, does his e-mail still work?
[04:41] <malte`> hi
[04:41] <tseng> bddebian: there are internet cafes in europe
[04:42] <bddebian> Well SOMEONE has to be close to him.  What about ogra?
[04:42] <G0SUB> where does he live? Germany?
[04:42] <Seveas> yes
[04:42] <Amaranth> his neighbor has open wlan
[04:42] <tseng> G0SUB: he used to work with ogra
[04:42] <G0SUB> tseng: oh, yeah ... I heard ogra introduced him to Ubuntu
[04:43] <Seveas> Hell, if 4 people would wire him 50$ he could have enough until the unemployment office starts paying
[04:43] <Seveas> I'd be one of the four if I knew how to
[04:43] <highvoltage> when last did someone here from him? i've been concerned too, even though I haven't met him in real life or anything.
[04:43] <bddebian> I could probably send like $100 USD
[04:44] <highvoltage> Seveas: if something like that were done, it should be done *very* discretely, otherwise it may set a bad president
[04:44] <G0SUB> ``bad president'' ?
[04:44] <highvoltage> i'm quite broke myself but i could also manage 10-20 $
[04:44] <Amaranth> precident
[04:44] <G0SUB> aah
[04:44] <highvoltage> G0SUB: what Amaranth said :)
[04:44] <Seveas> precedent even ;)
[04:44] <Amaranth> bah
[04:44] <G0SUB> heh
[04:44] <highvoltage> hehe
[04:44] <Seveas> bad president is what they have in the US :
[04:45] <highvoltage> Seveas: that's debatable...
[04:45] <tseng> the english-as-second-language folks win again
[04:45] <bddebian> Oh I was waiting for that
[04:45] <Amaranth> what happened to SexySpellEntry?
[04:45] <highvoltage> oh, "bad", sorry.
[04:45] <Seveas> highvoltage, of course, but please not here
[04:45] <highvoltage> I missed that part :)
[04:45] <bddebian> ogra: ping?
[04:45] <highvoltage> back to \sh
[04:46] <highvoltage> if someone's willing to manage the fund-raising
[04:46] <highvoltage> i'm willing to transfer some money into your account that can be transfered to him again
[04:46] <G0SUB> does he have a paypal a/c ?
[04:46] <G0SUB> or any bank a/c ?
[04:46] <bddebian> G0SUB: I was thinking about that too
[04:46] <Amaranth> unless you want it eaten by something like western union twice it'd be best to just send it to him direct
[04:47] <G0SUB> bddebian: IMO, we can at least comment on his blog
[04:47] <Amaranth> paypal would be useless if it wasn't hooked up to his bank
[04:47] <Amaranth> we'd just be sending money into the ether
[04:47] <G0SUB> yeah, another issue
[04:47] <Seveas> Amaranth, I could do the fundraising
[04:47] <Seveas> NL->DE is free
[04:47] <Seveas> so you only pay WU once
[04:48] <tseng> you could send it via paypal to one account and then wire it
[04:49] <Seveas> but someone local to him needs to get hold of his bank account number
[04:51] <G0SUB> ``Let's see, if everything gets more worse, then I'll try to contact Ogra to pick up some stuff which belongs to others then me.''
[04:52] <G0SUB> I am sure ogra can get in touch with him
[04:52] <Seveas> if only ogra would respond now
[04:53] <Amaranth> germany is +1, right?
[04:53] <Amaranth> btw, isn't there a CC meeting soon?
[04:53] <Amaranth> or did i just miss it?
[04:53] <psusi> yea, in 10 mins
[04:53] <Seveas> argh
[04:53] <Seveas> mouse was in the topic thing
[04:55] <G0SUB> Seveas: can we put this fundraiser in the CC meet agenda?
[04:55] <Amaranth> probably not
[04:55] <G0SUB> hmm
[04:55] <Seveas> indeed
[04:55] <Amaranth> we only need a couple people to help
[04:55] <Seveas> it's not something that should be run by Ubuntu
[04:55] <G0SUB> i agree
[04:55] <G0SUB> but to create awareness I mean
[04:56] <Seveas> no, that's not good
[04:56] <G0SUB> i understand now
[04:56] <Seveas> I don't think \sh would want that either
[04:56] <G0SUB> but he is starving ...
[04:56] <highvoltage> G0SUB: i would think that ideally, as few as possible people should know about this
[04:57] <G0SUB> no money is ok. but he hasn't eaten since a long time
[04:57] <tseng> there are 100 people here
[04:57] <bddebian> Yes, we don't want to embarass anyone, just help the poor guy
[04:57] <Seveas> G0SUB, so ogra needs to respond and we can start collecting
[04:57] <tseng> so you arent exactly keeping a secret
[04:57] <G0SUB> yes
[04:57] <bddebian> tseng: Aye, good point :-(
[04:57] <G0SUB> tseng: add to that the fact that his blog is on planet.u.c
[04:57] <Amaranth> ouch
[04:58] <highvoltage> more than embarassment, if word gets out, we may have many people suddenlty blogging about needing money- not good
[04:58] <tseng> G0SUB: yeah.
[04:58] <Amaranth> it'll cost $20 to send $50
[04:58] <Seveas> tseng, true, but the 100 in here know \sh somewhat - the community at large not
[04:58] <Seveas> Amaranth, eew
[04:58] <tseng> highvoltage: i think you are a little off base
[04:58] <Seveas> sending it via mail is cheaper
[04:58] <Amaranth> Seveas: but then it won't get there for a week or so
[04:58] <G0SUB> agh!
[04:59] <Seveas> Amaranth, that's not neccessarily an issue
[04:59] <Amaranth> hrm
[04:59] <Amaranth> i'll willing to pay the $20
[04:59] <tseng> Seveas: (why not)
[04:59] <Amaranth> just saying ouch
[04:59] <Seveas> I mean, if I know how much would 'come in' it's easy for me to transfer that in advance
[04:59] <tseng> $70 USD is no big deal to me
[05:00] <Amaranth> ah
[05:00] <bddebian> As I said, I can do $100USD
[05:00] <Seveas> and if you americans combine forces then the WU load will be less
[05:01] <bddebian> I'd like to cath ogra first to see if it would be easier to go through him somehow
[05:01] <Seveas> yeah, me too
[05:01] <Amaranth> yeah, we have to go through ogra eventually anyhow
[05:02] <Seveas> I'm almost certain it would be easier
[05:02] <Seveas> but it's nice to have options
[05:04] <ogra> heya ...
[05:04] <bddebian> ogra!!
[05:04] <ogra> i havent heard from \sh since quite some time ...
[05:04] <bddebian> ogra: Are you near him?
[05:05] <ogra> i tried to call him after his last entry but didnt reach him
[05:05] <ogra> about 60-80km away
[05:05] <Amaranth> yeah, he says his phone is shut off
[05:05] <ogra> in germany they only disable you from making cals the first month ...
[05:05] <ogra> *calls
[05:06] <Amaranth> "Oh, if you want to call me, and I don't answer the phone, please don't expect, that I'm calling back, my phone lines are canceled, until I pay them."
[05:06] <ogra> you can still be called
[05:06] <Amaranth> ah
[05:06] <spacey> is their some meta package with debug symbols? I want to do a backtrace on epiphany but no idea which debug symbol package i should get
[05:06] <Amaranth> ok, if we give you money, can you drive to him?
[05:06] <ogra> sure
[05:07] <bddebian> Can we paypal ogra? :)
[05:07] <ogra> no idea, i have no paypal account and i dont know if my bank accepts paypal transfers
[05:07] <bddebian> Bah :-)
[05:07] <Amaranth> ok, i guess western union
[05:07] <ogra> might be possible, but i have no idea how ... :)
[05:08] <slomo> spacey: spacey look at the backtrace of your crash without debug symbols to get an idea which debug packages you want :)
[05:08] <spacey> slomo: hmm ok :)
[05:08] <slomo> spacey: in the worst case you have to rebuild epiphany-browser with debug symbols as it has no debug package
[05:09] <spacey> hmm ok
[05:10] <bddebian> Bah, screw Western Union, there HAS to be a better way
[05:11] <ogra> you can transfer it to my account ... lets talk after the meeting ..
[05:11] <Amaranth> oh crap, meeting
[05:11] <Seveas> ogra, cool
[05:36] <sixE18> hi
[05:36] <sixE18> apt-cache show linphone say me : 1.0.1-6ubuntu7. But on debian and on the official linphone page it's the 1.3.* release. Who contact to have this packet up to date
[05:37] <sixE18> ?
[05:37] <crimsun> we're way past upstream version freeze (UVF)
[05:37] <crimsun> does 1.3 fix any _critical_ (as in your computer explodes) bugs over 1.0.1?
[05:38] <bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~$ sudo apt-cache madison linphone
[05:38] <bddebian> Password:
[05:38] <bddebian>   linphone |    1.2.0-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
[05:38] <bddebian>   linphone |    1.2.0-2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
[05:38] <sixE18> and breezy keep in his state ?
[05:39] <crimsun> breezy will not be updated. It froze in October.
[05:39] <sixE18> haaa thx
[05:40] <highvoltage> what exactly is a 'bug triager'?
[05:40] <spacey> someone how does something with bug reports?
[05:40] <crimsun> someone who trawls the bugtracker and updates bugs
[05:41] <crimsun> e.g., asks for more info, reassigns, closes, etc.
[05:42] <highvoltage> ok, kewl. i always thought it had something to do with resolving bugs directly. thanks for clearing that for me.
[05:42] <azeem> bddebian: whoa, I didn't know about apt-cache madison
[05:42] <azeem> cool, thanks
[05:43] <bddebian> azeem: Gotta be good for something once in a while :-)
[05:43] <crimsun> megakarma, toldya
[05:45] <bddebian> crimsun: pfft :)
[05:48] <sixE18> linphone integre webcam since 1.2.99, why keep on 1.2.0 ?
[05:50] <crimsun> because we're in upstream version freeze. We've been in UVF since February.
[05:50] <crimsun> There had better be a darned good (i.e., critical) reason to upgrade at this point.
[05:52] <sixE18> ok
[05:53] <bddebian> Gents, I have to head to lunch, can someone please let me know about \sh
[05:54] <crimsun> someone will, I'm sure
[05:54] <sixE18> thx \o_
[06:33] <reggaemanu> hello
[06:34] <Erlang> lo
[06:35] <reggaemanu> what the purpose of the new package evince-gtk (version 0.5.1) that appears today on the universe repository ? there is already a "evince" package (version 0.5.2) :/
[06:35] <crimsun> it strips the gnome bits
[06:35] <crimsun> we need it for xubuntu-desktop
[06:35] <reggaemanu> crimsun, oh, ok !
[06:35] <crimsun> probably best if janimo knows about 0.5.2, though he's very active, and I'm sure it'll be updated shortly
[06:35] <reggaemanu> i haven't think about xfce
[06:36] <crimsun> yes, there are other desktops =)
[06:36] <reggaemanu> also, the checkinstall package for dapper doesn't work
[06:36] <crimsun> that's not necessarily a bad thing ;)
[06:36] <reggaemanu> and is out of date
[06:37] <reggaemanu> (since there is a 1.6.0 version on the checkinstall website, with a .deb)
[06:37] <dholbach> .debs don't help, we need the source package
[06:37] <crimsun> well, even Debian only has 1.5.3-3
[06:38] <dholbach> and if we don't know what it changes, what it breaks and what it fixes, it can't go in atm
[06:38] <reggaemanu> crimsun, yes, but if there is a package in the repository, it should works lol
[06:38] <dholbach> we're in UpstreamVersionFreeze
[06:38] <reggaemanu> yes, i know
[06:38] <dholbach> in FeatureFreeze and UIFreeze too
[06:38] <reggaemanu> anyway this the 1.6.0 package works fine on dapper :D
[06:39] <crimsun> Bug #281823: checkinstall: filesystem coruption
[06:39] <crimsun> that is an AWESOME reason.
[06:39] <G0SUB> dholbach: I installed a custom kernel and now usplash doesn't work ... I see it only when shutting down or rebooting but no progress bar
[06:39] <G0SUB> any idea how to troubleshoot it?
[06:41] <sladen> G0SUB: have you rebuilt an initramfs with it in?
[06:41] <G0SUB> sladen: not explicitly ... how to do that?
[06:44] <G0SUB> sladen: any idea?
[06:46] <sladen> G0SUB: sudo mkinitramfs `uname -r`
[06:46] <G0SUB> ok
[06:46] <sladen> G0SUB: what are you requring a custom kernel for?
[06:46] <sladen> G0SUB: if it's a feature that you require, it would be better to get it into the standard kernel.
[06:47] <G0SUB> sladen: I usually use the CK patchset and also because of the fact that CPU Freq. scaling doesn't work with the stock kernel
[06:47] <G0SUB> i will file a bug on this
[06:47] <G0SUB> wrt the speedstep issue
[06:48] <Erlang> ck rulez
[06:49] <G0SUB> Erlang: heh
[06:49] <G0SUB> sladen: where do I put the initramfs image after generating it? /boot?
[06:50] <Erlang> My mouse is very jumpy with the standard kernel in Eclipse.  RT and CK solve the problem.
[06:50] <G0SUB> FYI I don't use a initrd image
[06:54] <sladen> G0SUB: yes, it'll pop it into /boot and "Just do" everything for you
[06:54] <G0SUB> sladen: oh, really ? great
[06:55] <sladen> G0SUB: please file a bug against powernowd if CPU scaling doesn't work
[06:55] <G0SUB> but why does it force me to use -o outfile?
[06:55] <G0SUB> sladen: yes
[06:55] <sladen> G0SUB: sorry,   sudo update-initramfs -u `uname -r`
[06:56] <sladen> *that* should do everything for you
[06:56] <G0SUB> sladen: aah, thanks a lot!
[06:56] <G0SUB> brb, new kernel
[07:05] <Tonio_> hi
[07:06] <LaserJock> hi Tonio_
[07:16] <G0SUB> sladen: it worked, thanks a lot
[07:16] <Seveas> ogra, ping
[07:16] <LaserJock> Seveas: yeah, sorry. I thought I was here :(
[08:09] <bddebian> Hey gents, any word on the \sh situation?
[08:10] <LaserJock> bddebian: I asked Seveas and he pinged ogra but no response yet
[08:11] <bddebian> LaserJock: OK, thanks
[08:15] <phanatic> hi people
[08:16] <Gloubiboulga> evening phanatic
[08:16] <phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
[08:17] <LaserJock> hi phanatic and Gloubiboulga
[08:18] <phanatic> hey LaserJock
[08:19] <Gloubiboulga> hi LaserJock
[08:52] <littlepaul> Hi, I have short question. What is meant in flight 5 with "Graphical Power Tools" ?
[09:17] <dolson> ok, something's not right... this is the second time in a week that I came back to my PC after a couple hours and the HDD activity is going nuts, but the screen is blanked (gnome-screensaver) and the system is totally unresponsive
[09:18] <dholbach> can you sssh into that box?
[09:19] <dholbach> and check what's working it so hard?
[09:19] <dolson> I rebooted it
[09:19] <dolson> it's this box, actually
[09:19] <dholbach> hrm
[09:19] <dholbach> so no debugging
[09:19] <dholbach> is /var/ full?
[09:19] <dholbach> cups doesn't like that and spins like mad
[09:19] <dolson> you know, I hit Ctrl+Alt+F5 and got to a login after several minutes
[09:20] <dolson> so I tried logging in. it took about a minute for it to prompt for the password, and then 5 minutes after entering the password some of the MOTD text or whatever it is showed up. I waited 30 more minutes and it still never gave me the bash prompt
[09:20] <dholbach> that's not nice
[09:21] <Erlang> dolson: It happened to me once.
[09:21] <dolson> there's over 1GB free on / which is where var is.. so that's not it. plus I don't have a printer, lol
[09:22] <littlepaul> dholbach, What is meant in flight 5 with "Graphical Power Tools" http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/flight5 I see that just gdebi is described. Do you have a hint where I can find more information?
[09:23] <Erlang> dolson: It happened to me just last week.  I had to reset too I could not get the system to come back on it's feet.
[09:23] <Erlang> I linked the problem to Gaim that I had retried the night before.  I have not used it since.
[09:23] <dholbach> littlepaul: you should maybe ask the guys who wrote the page, maybe ask in #ubuntu-doc
[09:23] <dolson> Erlang: hmm.. that's very strange.
[09:24] <dolson> Erlang: I was running gnome-xchat or whatever it is, Gaim, Evolution, and Blam!.. shouldn't lock up though
[09:24] <Erlang> Most of the time I only use KDE apps and never had that problem.
[09:25] <dolson> I blame the government
[09:26] <Erlang> GAIM is still the potential culprit.  If I had some guts I'd setup something to diagnosticate that but I need ths computer to work.
[09:27] <dolson> I'm not sure how I could test that
[09:28] <Erlang> There must be some process monitoring tools somewhere.  I seriously suspect Gaim has it's the only non-usual app I was running when it happened.  It may be something else gnomey though...
[09:28] <dolson> the only other thing that I could link it to is the fact that I did some updates and didn't reboot when it told me to.. (hal)
[09:29] <dolson> but I don't think that was the case the first time it happened
[09:29] <Erlang> I never reboot when I'm told.  That reminds me too much of Windows.
[09:30] <dolson> I know...
[09:31] <dolson> next it's gonna be "Ubuntu has detected that you wish to press spacebar. You must reboot to acknowledge this change"
[09:31] <Erlang> I'll be back to Debian by then...
[09:32] <dolson> in all the years I ran Debian, I only ever rebooted during a power failure long enough to knock down my UPS or after a kernel upgrade, and even then sometimes I waited for the next power failure before booting into the new kernel
[09:32] <Erlang> that's the Linux way...
[09:35] <LaserJock> I reboot all the time.  But that is just me
[09:35] <dolson> yeah, it is
[09:36] <dolson> Erlang: do you run Beagle, by any chance? I didn't have it installed the first time it happened... but you never know..
[09:36] <Erlang> No I don't.
[09:36] <dolson> it's sitting there right now using between 66 and 95%
[09:37] <psusi> has anyone noticed lately that certain upgrades in dapper that tell you to reboot, when you chose to reboot from the gui, it just sits there?
[09:38] <dolson> yeah.. I thought that was because I was running a custom kernel though
[09:39] <psusi> ohh, I am too I guess.... I build straight from linus's git tree frequently
[09:39] <psusi> with a few local modifications
[09:40] <dolson> I used an -rt patch for a while
[09:40] <dolson> but not lately.. this was a lockup on a normal kernel
[09:41] <Erlang> I'm moved from -rt to -ck lately.  I must say I'm satisfied.
[09:41] <dolson> do you do a lot of work with JACK?
[09:42] <dolson> oh cool, the GPL was held up in court. nice. I missed that news yesterday
[09:42] <Erlang> No.  I don't do audio processing. I've found -rt and -ck patch improve the responsiveness of Eclipse and Java apps.
[09:43] <dolson> ah, well the -ck isn't so good for realtime audio stuff
[09:44] <Erlang> I'm better off with -ck then.  It seems more stable than -rt.
[09:45] <dolson> yeah, well, rt is almost 2MB of a patch, heh. that's nothing to snort at. there's bound to be problems with it. I don't remember how big ck is, but it's more widely used and generally stabler
[09:46] <dolson> Studio to Go! ships with the ck patches, apparently. so I'm guessing that it's a bit better than a vanilla kernel for audio
[09:47] <Erlang> I've read ck is configurable for some different types of load.  I have not looked much into that though.
[09:48] <dolson> it has a scheduler for non-priveleged users to access near-realtime sceduler, and it's transparent.. pretty cool, although not needed if you want to allow FIFO access to a user via PAM or set_rlimits or realtime-lsm
[09:51] <Erlang> I'll start gaim for a few.
[09:56] <psusi> I don't think its a kernel issue though because a shutdown -h now from the console works fine
[09:56] <psusi> it's just the gui can't seem to shutdown after certain upgrades
[10:06] <dolson> psusi: I'll test that next time I have to reboot and see what happens
[10:07] <psusi> it's only after my ~weekly update
[10:13] <LaserJock> dholbach: going to say good night to us? ;-)
[10:13] <dholbach> good night guys
[10:13] <LaserJock> cya dholbach
[10:17] <dolson> cya dholbach
[10:57] <gage> guys, where can i read about setting dependancies for multi-binary packages? i made one for mpeg4ip, which has separate -lib and -server and -player components, but my -server deb ended up depending on stuff that only the player should need, like gtk.
[10:58] <LaserJock> gage: are you setting the dependencies in debian/control?
[11:00] <gage> yeah, i guess this part is what's screwing me up? : ${shlibs:Depends}
[11:01] <ajmitch> morning
[11:02] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch


[22:00] <tgm4883> mhall119, do you have any good docs you can point me to regarding using JSON in Python (python 3 if available), specifically with requesting JSON output from a web server and then processing it?


[01:28] <wgrant> cjwatson: Do you think your seriesless copy change is OK to deploy?
[01:29] <cjwatson> I'm just trying it out
[01:29] <cjwatson> If I can bend dogfood to my will
[01:29] <wgrant> Heh
[01:31] <cjwatson> Hum, copying https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/openssh/+packages to https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/dogfood-copy-target/+packages not obviously successful
[01:32] <cjwatson> Oh, maybe copyPackages is just not set up for this to work
[01:32] <wgrant> cjwatson: What broke?
[01:32] <cjwatson> Yeah, it worked as far as it went but from_series=None is useless
[01:32] <wgrant> It may uniqueify the sources.
[01:32] <wgrant> Ah
[01:32] <cjwatson> But the to_series=None side of it worked fine
[01:32] <cjwatson> Let's try +copy-packages then
[01:35] <cjwatson> https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/dogfood-copy-target/+packages looks OK to me, libpipeline was copied with +copy-packages
[01:36] <cjwatson> So it's just the permission bug you spotted, which I think we thought was currently fairly academic because PPAs are all published to main and that's the most restrictive component for Ubuntu?
[01:36] <wgrant> Indeed, looks reasonable.
[01:37] <cjwatson> The only slight awkwardness with qa-oking that is that I attached the other branch to the same bug ... but I guess I can deal with that later
[01:38] <cjwatson> marked qa-ok for now anyway
[01:38] <wgrant> cjwatson: It'll revert to qa-needstesting once the next branch hits qastaging.
[01:39] <cjwatson> Yeah
[01:41] <cjwatson> I'll do a bit more testing with the relaxed feature flags on dogfood tomorrow; I want to see whether the cause for soyuz.copypackageppa.enabled being off is still valid
[01:42] <cjwatson> AFAICS there'd be no reason not to experimentally lower soyuz.derived_series.max_synchronous_syncs after this is deployed, but it will probably only get any meaningful use if we can also switch on soyuz.copypackageppa.enabled
[01:42] <cjwatson> At least for beta testers
[01:43] <cjwatson> I can probably get the LibreOffice guys to try it ;-)
[01:43]  * cjwatson goes back to bed, immediate duty done
[01:46] <wgrant> Night cjwatson, thanks.
[02:22] <StevenK> Bleh, buildout is still convinced it wants 'django', but it's 'Django' :-(
[02:22] <nigelb> o_O LP depends on django now?
[02:24] <mwhudson> StevenK: i have both Django and django in my versions.cfg :/
[02:26] <StevenK> Hm, I think that actually worked.
[02:55] <rick_h_> wallyworld_: r=me with a few small picks
[02:56] <rick_h_> thanks for the updates!
[02:56] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: awesome, thanks for the detailed review
[02:57] <rick_h_> wallyworld_: yea, sorry for being picky, tring hard to take some ownership of the JS and help improve things so I appreciate the time to make the small improvements
[02:57] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: no need to apologise, our js is poor in many places
[02:58] <wallyworld_> so it's great you are doing this
[02:58] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: many of the things you picked up on were cargo culted so there's a lot to fix
[02:59] <rick_h_> wallyworld_: yea, trying to do a goold old fashioned line the in sand. :)
[02:59] <rick_h_> wallyworld_: cool, I know I hate when I get long reviews so and irc isn't the best so want to make sure things come across well
[02:59] <wallyworld_> well, we gotta start fixing somewhere/sometime, now is as good a time as any
[03:00] <rick_h_> with you and jcsackett and sinzui doing some awesome stuff I'm feeling there's hope
[03:01] <wallyworld_> well, it's getting better slowly, but there's a lot of code to fix, and way too much code without test coverage
[03:02] <rick_h_> yea, it's scary sometimes, but as long as it's getting better
[03:02] <rick_h_> and hopefully as things get cleaner they get easier
[03:02] <wgrant> Heh
[03:02] <wgrant> Bug #800515 and bug #1016454
[03:02] <_mup_> Bug #800515: Enable "NotAutomatic: yes" for -proposed <soyuz-publish> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/800515 >
[03:03] <wgrant> Dupes filed a year to the day apart
[03:03] <wallyworld_> having standard templates really helps, but there's still a lot of inconsistancy in terms of patterns etc
[03:03] <wgrant> 3 hours off, though :(
[03:03] <rick_h_> wallyworld_: yea, it is. I've talked with deryck and one of my goals for this next year to try to get a couple of really polished JS modules as the gold standard.
[03:03] <rick_h_> if you've got a question, refer to these kind of things
[03:04] <rick_h_> but anway, past my bed time, but I saw your review come up and I wanted to try to unblock you asap.
[03:04] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: we also have way too much code that just adds methods to a namespace instead of using widgets. i used widgets for the sharing stuff and it makes it sooo much easier
[03:04] <wallyworld_> rick_h_: thanks for reviewing and unblocking, i really apprciate it
[03:04] <rick_h_> right, exactly. Widgets/Plugins, and I'm working on getting YUI 3.5 which adds Views
[03:05] <wallyworld_> \o/or 3.5, can't wait
[03:05] <rick_h_> so looking forward to doing a real View containing several Widgets
[03:05] <wallyworld_> s/or/for
[03:05] <wallyworld_> yeah, mvc
[03:05] <rick_h_> yea, gotten through all the code in app/blueprint/bugs and onto the code module
[03:05] <rick_h_> I'll have an email in the morning with the work/hits so far.
[03:05] <rick_h_> and probably turning on the combo loader for all this week unless osmeone brings up a blocker
[03:06] <wallyworld_> looking forward to it
[03:06] <rick_h_> so I'm pushing hard for 3.5 sooner vs later
[03:06] <rick_h_> anyway, wheee
[03:06] <rick_h_> night
[03:06] <wallyworld_> awesome
[03:06] <wallyworld_> goofnight
[03:18] <lifeless> wgrant: care to update the disklessarchives diagram ?
[03:22] <wgrant> lifeless: Have you finished your edits?
[03:23] <lifeless> I believe so
[03:23] <lifeless> it was slow on saving was all
[04:49] <StevenK> wgrant: How do you feel about reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/auditor-layer/+merge/112962 ?
[04:59] <wgrant> StevenK: That looks pretty vile
[04:59] <wgrant> Shouldn't we not be testing against the real thing?
[04:59] <wgrant> How is its DB managed?
[04:59] <wgrant> etc
[05:01] <StevenK> Real thing, as in production auditor?
[05:02] <StevenK> As this is an established pattern for at least longpoll
[05:02] <wgrant> One pre-SOA service does not an SOA pattern make.
[05:04] <StevenK> That ^ was the plan that lifeless and I agreed on at least.
[05:09] <lifeless> wgrant: your double negative has confused me, can you rephrase ?
[05:09] <wgrant> lifeless: I thought the SOA guidelines said to test against a (network) fake.
[05:10] <wgrant> Not the real DB-backed service.
[05:10] <lifeless> wgrant: yes, which sqlite is ~= too
[05:10] <lifeless> wgrant: in memory sqlite that is
[05:10] <StevenK> Not sure if the default config of auditor is in-memory, but that can be fixed.
[05:11] <lifeless> wgrant: I agree its not as lean as a reimplementation with no django at all, for instance, but its certainly fitting the spirit of the SOA, that it should be cheap to spin up, config-free etc.
[05:12] <wgrant> If it's throw-away SQLite, then sure :)
[05:13] <wgrant> lifeless: The reference implementation shouldn't have Django at all either, but I think I lost that argument...
[05:13] <lifeless> wgrant: my understanding is that it is, or will be.
[05:13] <lifeless> I kindof think that that config should be in the fixture itself, to reduce the window for surprise, but for now its ok, I think.
[05:35] <StevenK> wgrant: So it's still vile, or you're refusing to deal with the MP? :-P
[06:26] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/populate-branch-aag/+merge/112264 should be easy to review
[07:38] <adeuring> good morning
[07:40] <jam1> can anyone help quickly with a testing question?
[07:40] <jam1> I have a test that does "login('email@address')" and I'd like to change it to use 'with person_logged_in(...)'
[07:40] <jam1> however the context manager takes a user object, not an email.
[07:40] <jam1> how does one get one of those from an email address
[07:43] <lifeless> jam: there is a test helper module with consants
[07:43] <lifeless> jam: there is also a context manager that can deal with emails, I think
[07:43] <lifeless> jam: but the specific answer is PersonSet.find(email), IIRC.
[07:44] <jam> lifeless: there is admin_logged_in, anonymous_* celebrity_* and person_*
[07:45] <wgrant> jam: Which test?
[07:45] <jam> wgrant: I'm converting a doctest to a unittest
[07:45] <wgrant> An email address is usually a sign that it's doing something horribly wrong.
[07:45] <wgrant> Which address?
[07:46] <jam> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~jameinel/launchpad/py27-xmlrpc-auth-1019292/+merge/112792
[07:46] <jam> wgrant: it is just trying to assert that the XMLRPC api is using a different user than whatever the current context is
[07:46] <wgrant> admin_logged_in is correct there.
[07:46] <wgrant> Oh
[07:46] <wgrant> Hm
[07:47] <wgrant> It's using foo.bar, but just as some random user. That's a bit odd.
[07:47] <lifeless> fubared
[07:47] <wgrant> Since foo.bar is an admin, it's a bit silly to use it to test that it's something arbitrary user
[07:47] <wgrant> Just create a new one
[07:47] <wgrant> self.factory.makePerson()
[07:47] <wgrant> Use that
[07:49] <lifeless> jam: general rules of thumb:
[07:49] <lifeless>  - using existing admins is ok but not brillirant
[07:50] <jam> wgrant: ObjectFactory has no attribute makePerson
[07:50] <lifeless>  - using existing persons is generally a bad idea as it ties you to sample data
[07:50] <lifeless>  - better to bring up just what you need from scratch using the helpers
[07:58] <lifeless> jam: on developer LOC credit; the idea is to shrink, not stay static :)
[08:01] <wgrant> jam: It does so...
[08:02] <wgrant> lifeless: Creating new people frequently has major test suite performance implications, so I introduced admin_logged_in which always uses an existing one.
[08:02] <lifeless> perhaps wrong test base class?
[08:02] <wgrant> But in this case it's just one, and it's meant to be an arbitrary person, so makePerson is correct.
[08:02] <lifeless> wgrant: yes, I know - tis a workaround though.
[08:09] <StevenK> wgrant: Can I have your attention now? :-)
[08:09] <czajkowski> morning
[08:12] <wgrant> StevenK: Indeed, sorry, let me see
[08:13] <wgrant> 64	+ branch_to_artifact = dict([(artifact.branch_id, artifact)
[08:13] <wgrant> 65	+ for artifact in artifacts])
[08:13] <wgrant> tsk
[08:13] <wgrant> bad linebreak is bad
[08:14] <StevenK> wgrant: What would you recommend?
[08:18] <wgrant> StevenK: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#indentation
[08:18] <wgrant> StevenK: Convention is to say:
[08:18] <wgrant>     dict(
[08:18] <wgrant>         [(artifact.branch_id, artifact) for artifact in artifacts])
[08:18] <wgrant>     branch_to_artifact = dict(
[08:18] <wgrant>         [(artifact.branch_id, artifact) for artifact in artifacts])
[08:19] <wgrant> That's the one.
[08:20] <stub> And you can probably drop the square brackets
[08:21] <StevenK> It's a list comphresion in a dict() call
[08:21] <wgrant> StevenK: A generator expression in a dict() call should work just as well
[08:27] <StevenK> wgrant: I've pushed up a change
[08:32] <wgrant> StevenK: Thanks, r=me
[09:10] <Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/launchpad/db-proposed-not-automatic-pre-release/+merge/112134 updated; could somebody review/land?
[09:43] <mgz> jam: using `nohup bin/test -vvv >~/test_out.log 2>~/test_err.log &` seems good
[09:49] <lifeless> mgz: testr run :>
[09:51] <mgz> testr was introducing subunit borkédness
[09:51] <jam> lifeless: that doesn't give any progress feedback (vs tee), etc. And yeah, subunit had some 2.7 issues (skip tests would cause broken stream)
[09:52] <jam> I think gmb fixed that with a newer zope.testing, though.
[09:52] <gmb> Yep. The dependency update should be landing in LP devel today.
[09:53] <jam> gmb: I think it already did. At least, ISTR failing to start the test suite because it couldn't find a new enough zope.testing. Though maybe that was an unrelated zope.testing change
[09:53] <gmb> O.o
[09:53] <gmb> jam, devel still has p15, the 2.7 stuff is p16.
[09:53] <gmb> I think
[09:53]  * gmb checks
[09:54] <gmb> jam, Yes, Still on p15 in devel.
[09:54] <gmb> p16 will be on its way to ec2 shortly
[09:58] <jam> gmb: probably devel rev 15470 which bumped it to r15. That was about 1.5weeks ago, but the checkout on my desktop was a bit old
[10:04] <lifeless> jam: ah, true enough
[10:04] <lifeless> jam: subunit itself should be 2.7 safe; been using it for months on 2.7
[10:05] <jam> lifeless: yeah, zope.testing didn't handle skips, and in 2.6 unittest didn't support them either. So testtools passed them through as success.
[10:05] <jam> In 2.7, unittest gets an 'addSkip' which wasn't getting sent on to the subunit stream
[10:05] <lifeless> ah
[10:05] <lifeless> win ;>
[10:05] <jam> so you would see the test start
[10:05] <jam> but not ever finish
[10:06] <jml> perhaps stopTest should emit some kind of warning if that happens.
[10:08] <jam> jml: would have probably made tracking down the failure easier
[13:31] <rick_h_> adeuring: ivory https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ef4e3eeb2016cc8910d1dc31949a0597da77f5f0?authuser=0&hl=en-US
[14:04] <rick_h_> benji: can you take a peek when you get a chance please? https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/code_yui35_one/+merge/113031
[14:04] <benji> rick_h_: sure
[14:38] <mgz> hm, test for js stuff hung at:
[14:38] <mgz> write(2, "\n(test:2741): Gdk-CRITICAL **: g"..., 10
[14:39] <mgz> presumably related to not having X running
[14:39]  * mgz kills the layer
[14:41] <jelmer> mgz: you might want to run inside of xvfb-run
[14:42] <mgz> presumably, will try that when the run completes
[14:55] <rick_h_> mgz: yea, I had to do that with running tests in lxc
[14:57] <jam> mgz:  lp.translations.tests.test_translationtemplatesbuildbehavior.TestTranslationTemplatesBuildBehavior.test_updateBuild_WAITING_notarballERROR:root:Slave returned no filemap.
[14:57] <jam> ERROR:root:Build produced no tarball.
[14:58] <jam> Failure in test lp.soyuz.tests.test_packageupload.PackageUploadTestCase.test_realiseUpload_for_delayed_copies
[14:58] <jam> mgz: ^^
[15:01] <mgz> jam: also lp.services.mail.tests.test_stub.test_simple_sendmail
[15:02] <mgz> again email header wrapping
[15:02] <mgz> Failed example: message['X-Generated-By']
[15:02] <mgz> Expected: 'Launchpad (canonical.com); Revision="1999";\n\tInstance="launchpad-lazr.conf"'
[15:02] <mgz> Got: 'Launchpad (canonical.com); Revision="1999";\n Instance="launchpad-lazr.conf"'
[15:03] <mgz> slightly different doctest issue in lib/lp/services/webapp/doc/test_adapter.txt
[15:06] <ivory> sinzui: could you take a look at this? https://code.launchpad.net/~ivo-kracht/launchpad/bug-1013281/+merge/113062
[15:06] <mgz> that last one is trivial, is a threading.Event object, and new in Python 2.7 returns the internal flag object rather than None
[15:11] <sinzui> thank you ivory. Do you want me to land this?
[15:14] <ivory> sinzui: adeuring will do it but thank you nevertheless
[15:16] <mgz> Total duration of test run 18883.5 seconds.
[15:23] <jelmer> benji: Thanks for the review!
[15:24] <benji> jelmer: my pleasure
[15:25] <Laney> benji: could you help me to land https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/launchpad/db-proposed-not-automatic-pre-release/+merge/112134 please?
[15:25] <benji> Laney: sure; how can I help?  "ec2 land" it?
[15:25] <Laney> I don't know the commands you guys run :P
[15:26] <Laney> I guess that's the one :)
[15:27] <benji> hmm, given that there is a DB change, I'll have to refresh my memory on the right way to handle that
[15:28] <cjwatson> ec2 land works for db-devel
[15:28] <cjwatson> Shouldn't require anything especially special
[15:29] <cjwatson> (The branch is targeted correctly)
[15:30] <benji> yep, the target looks good; I'm firing off a job now
[15:31] <Laney> ta
[15:41] <benji> Laney: the MP needs a commit message and then I'll try again.
[15:42] <Laney> benji: there
[15:59] <benji> Laney: PQM doesn't like newlines in commit messages.  I have removed them and submitted.  The EC2 instance is starting now.
[16:00] <Laney> benji: OK. So it's just the "short description" it wants then, for future reference?
[16:00] <benji> Laney: I don't know of a prescribed guideline.  I like your commit message as-is.
[16:01] <Laney> well I usually try to keep the first line under 72ish when writing them
[17:10] <cjwatson> benji: I have a couple of split-outs from queue-api up for review to start with; do those look like a more reasonable level of granularity?
[17:11] <benji> cjwatson: I'll take a look.
[17:11] <cjwatson> I'm still juggling branches locally to find the next thing to separate
[17:13] <cjwatson> Probably the read-only bits of the webservice exports
[17:27] <sinzui> czajkowski, test-system failures are critical, not low. Lp's mailman installation is brittle, we cannot tolerate missing test coverage
[17:31] <benji> cjwatson: looking good; the only thing I spotted was some extra parens (details in the comment)
[17:46] <mgz> sinzui: I had some luck poking things with mailman, manually creating parent directories makes tests pass, but then oddly the buildmailman.py in make starts failing from not having any lists
[17:46] <mgz> does buildmailman.py just need fixing to be better about creating needed directories and tolerating different state?
[17:47] <sinzui> mgz, I think it needs fixing for the lxc case. Mailman always has at least one list. There is a control list that out code must discount. if it was not created, Mailman goes tits up
[17:48] <sinzui> mgz, Other developers have reported problems were /tmp/var/mailman was not created properly, so I think this is an old issue
[17:51] <mgz> did seem odd no one else had run into problems, I'll dig a bit further and see where I get
[17:57] <benji> gary_poster: indeed
[18:29] <cjwatson> benji: ta
[20:16] <mgz> okay, that's all the remaining py27 things I've logged as having issues, though didn't get complete run due to mailman and X issues
[21:17] <rick_h_> jcsackett: ping, if you remove the renderUI in the extending class does it still work right? You shouldn't need it since it's not doing anything extra?
[21:27] <rick_h_> jcsackett: r=me with the two notes.
[22:14] <sinzui> StevenK, wallyworld_, jcsackett https://dev.launchpad.net/Projects/Disclosure
[22:21] <sinzui> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs?field.tag=disclosure+privacy-transitions&field.tags_combinator=ALL
[22:33] <sinzui> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs?field.tag=disclosure+information-type&field.tags_combinator=ALL
[22:36] <wgrant_> Grar
[22:37] <StevenK> Haha
[22:37] <wgrant_> This 3G is so slow I'm not actually sure it's 3G at all
[22:38] <StevenK> Hahahaha, Optus 3G
[22:39] <wgrant_> No mobile coverage is very good around here :)
[23:51] <wgrant_> ooh
[23:51] <wgrant_> flashing lights
[23:51] <wgrant_> maybe they have fixed it
[23:52] <lifeless> wgrant: where are you ?
[23:53] <wgrant> lifeless: Some HFC fault took the entire street's phone and Internet out from about 4am until 90 seconds ago.
[23:55] <lifeless> wgrant: \o/
[23:56] <StevenK> wgrant: Six hour outage.


[08:04] <davecheney> lucky(~/go/src) % go version
[08:04] <davecheney> go version go1.0.3
[08:04] <davecheney> ^ trying out go-1.0.3
[08:04] <davecheney> today
[08:04] <davecheney> as this will be the golang-go deb when we ship
[08:42] <Aram> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1212512/
[08:56] <fwereade> Aram, for now, I'm moving RelationUnit.Watch into my queue -- I think it depends fairly heavily on the preliminary stuff I'm doing right now
[08:56] <fwereade> Aram, complain if you run out of other things to do ;0
[08:56] <Aram> ok
[08:56] <Aram> perfect
[08:57] <davecheney> # launchpad.net/juju-core/charm
[08:57] <davecheney> charm/url.go:191: undefined: bson.SetZero
[08:57] <davecheney> ^ why is this bitching ?
[08:57] <davecheney> Aram: ?
[08:57] <Aram> davecheney: bzr pull mgo
[08:59] <davecheney> Aram: thank you
[10:27] <davecheney> ls
[10:27] <davecheney> doh
[10:27] <davecheney> https://codereview.appspot.com/6532043 << niemeyer, fwereade -- small branch that adds juju set --config
[10:27] <davecheney> actually parsing the options is next
[12:45] <davecheney> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/6532045 << as discussed
[13:02] <niemeyer> Easy one: https://codereview.appspot.com/6536043
[13:09] <fwereade> niemeyer, LGTM
[13:09] <niemeyer> fwereade: Cheers
[13:21] <davecheney> niemeyer: http://codereview.appspot.com/6501101/
[13:47] <niemeyer> Easiest win, EVAR! https://codereview.appspot.com/6530045
[13:49] <davecheney> LGTM
[14:06] <davechen1y> fwereade: error: Failed to create merge proposal: lookup api.launchpad.net: no such host
[14:06] <davechen1y> urr
[14:06] <davechen1y> fwereade: https://codereview.appspot.com/6527045
[15:37] <Aram> niemeyer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1213140/
[15:37] <niemeyer> Aram: Cheers
[15:56] <rog> niemeyer: https://codereview.appspot.com/6527047/
[16:29] <Aram> cobzr: can't remove current branch "77-mstate-watchers-machine-units-nwo2"
[16:29] <Aram> I almost deleted my work
[16:29] <Aram> this check is great


[17:10] <jdsanders> Hi all - is there any way to provide a custom exec or script for the actual stop procedure?
[17:11] <jdsanders> use case is a server that stops gracefully when it receives a shutdown command over tcp, but loses data when it receives TERM
[17:12] <jdsanders> I tried doing it with "pre-stop exec server-cli shutdown"
[17:12] <jdsanders> which shuts it down properly, but it then respawns
[17:12] <jdsanders> what I really want isn't a pre-stop, but just a stop exec
[17:43] <SpamapS> jdsanders: I believe there is a 'kill signal' keyword
[17:43] <SpamapS>        kill signal SIGNAL
[17:43] <jdsanders> SpamapS: thanks, but I actually want *no* signal
[17:43] <SpamapS> jdsanders: you can also do a 'normal exit SIGWHATEVER' and the signal will not be considered something to respawn on
[17:43] <jdsanders> or more importantly, I want a process killed in a pre-stop clause to not be respawned
[17:43] <jdsanders> oh interesting
[17:43] <jdsanders> i'll read about that command
[17:44] <SpamapS> jdsanders: so if it is graceful on SIGUSR1, then 'normal exit 0 USR1' means don't respawn if it is killed by USR1
[17:44] <SpamapS> jdsanders: the '0' in there also means if the exit code was 0, don't respawn. Thats the default btw, so its surprising that your graceful shutdown doesn't exit(0)
[17:45] <SpamapS> jdsanders: though I believe even if you exit(0) from the USR1 handler, upstart will consider that a kill by SIGUSR1
[17:46] <jdsanders> huh
[17:46] <jdsanders> thanks, sounds like i have a lot more respawn research to do
[17:46] <SpamapS> jdsanders: the default logging level *should* tell you what upstart thinks killed the process
[17:47] <SpamapS> jdsanders: would you mind pasting what you see? youre pre-stop, btw, is the right way to go
[17:50] <jdsanders> SpamapS: one moment, going back up my terminal....
[17:58] <jdsanders> shoot can't reproduce!
[17:59] <jdsanders> ah, here
[17:59] <jdsanders> maybe a race condition actually...
[17:59] <jdsanders> deploy@NCVMLITSDEVQUE01:/var/www/apps/smartgrid/current/apollo$ sudo start redis-server
[17:59] <jdsanders> redis-server start/running, process 9535
[17:59] <jdsanders> deploy@NCVMLITSDEVQUE01:/var/www/apps/smartgrid/current/apollo$ sudo status redis-server
[17:59] <jdsanders> redis-server start/running, process 9535
[17:59] <jdsanders> deploy@NCVMLITSDEVQUE01:/var/www/apps/smartgrid/current/apollo$ sudo stop redis-server
[17:59] <jdsanders> redis-server start/running, process 9625
[17:59] <jdsanders> deploy@NCVMLITSDEVQUE01:/var/www/apps/smartgrid/current/apollo$ sudo status redis-server
[17:59] <jdsanders> redis-server start/running, process 9625
[18:00] <jdsanders> SpamapS: ^^
[18:01] <jdsanders> SpamapS: here's the config script - https://gist.github.com/bf5b600645ff1ddc67cf
[18:10] <SpamapS> jdsanders: looking
[19:13] <jdsanders> SpamapS: just got back from a meeting, any luck understanding that redis-server issue?
[19:14] <SpamapS> jdsanders: oops no I got sdistracted. Looking again
[19:15] <SpamapS> jdsanders: I'd need to see your syslog entries to understand what happened
[19:17] <jdsanders> k, do you know what label to look for in syslog?
[19:17] <jdsanders> don't see anything like "upstart"
[19:18] <jdsanders> looks like "init" maybe
[19:19] <jdsanders> Jul 11 15:18:08 NCVMLITSDEVQUE01 init: redis-server pre-stop process (9765) terminated with status 1
[19:19] <jdsanders> seems problematic maybe
[19:29] <jdsanders> hmmm, yeah it seems like my shutdown command is *expected* to have exit code 1
[19:29] <jdsanders> (oddly enough)
[19:30] <jdsanders> so i think that's causing the problem?
[20:19] <JanC> by default it will consider exit != 0 as an error
[20:20] <JanC> so just override that if you want to ignore that
[20:20] <jdsanders> JanC: thanks, I'm now fairly certain my server is exiting with 0 when it shuts down, and I've modified the pre-stop to make sure it exits 0
[20:20] <jdsanders> all I see in syslog is now basically "process died, respawning"
[20:20] <jdsanders> is there some way I can see more info about why it decided to respawn?
[20:22] <JanC> maybe use a script instead of the main binary
[20:23] <JanC> and make it log whatever seems relevant
[20:28] <jdsanders> ok thanks
[22:12] <SpamapS> jdsanders: you may also want to try 'initctl log-priority info' to get more about why it died
[22:12] <SpamapS> jdsanders: I suspect just setting 'normal exit' properly is all you need
[22:32] <jdsanders> SpamapS: i'll try the log level thing, but the reason I think the exit code is 0 is, I ran the same command that I'm executing from upstart in the foreground
[22:32] <jdsanders> then shut it down from another process
[22:32] <jdsanders> then checked its exit status
[22:32] <jdsanders> and it was 0
[22:33] <SpamapS> jdsanders: right, so I am wondering what upstart thinks the exit code is
[22:33] <SpamapS> jdsanders: you might also just try 'normal exit 0'
[22:33] <SpamapS> I thought that was the default
[22:33] <SpamapS> but man 5 init isn't entirely crystal clear on it IIRC
[22:34] <SpamapS> "Tasks may exit with a zero exit status to prevent being respawned."
[22:34] <SpamapS> I believe that means jobs may not by default consider 0 a normal exit
[22:34] <SpamapS> " All
[22:34] <SpamapS>               reasons  for  a  service stopping, except the stop(8) command itself, are considered abnormal."
[22:34] <SpamapS> jdsanders: yeah, try 'normal exit 0'
[22:37] <jdsanders> huh
[22:37] <jdsanders> i'll try that!
[22:39] <SpamapS> jdsanders: what that means is that upstart won't be able to keep redis running in the face of accidental shutdowns. But thats probably fine.
[22:40] <jdsanders> well
[22:40] <jdsanders> I haven't tested this
[22:40] <jdsanders> but my theory is that any non-graceful shutdown will exit with a different exit code than 0
[22:40] <SpamapS> it should
[22:41] <jdsanders> so I think if somebody *wants* to shut it down with the command that is meant for precisely that, it is reasonable to expect that it doesn't respawn
[22:41] <SpamapS> jdsanders: you're still in better shape than with a bare daemon.
[22:54] <jdsanders> alright, I think I've got this now, thanks for all the help!
[22:54] <jdsanders> SpamapS,JanC: ^^
[22:54] <SpamapS> jdsanders: woot!
[22:55] <jdsanders> woot!
[22:56] <jdsanders> alright...I hate to do this, but here's another one
[22:56] <jdsanders> I'm on ubuntu 10.04
[22:56] <jdsanders> which has upstart 0.6.5
[22:56] <jdsanders> which doesn't support setuid
[22:56] <jdsanders> but I need to run my server as another user
[22:57] <jdsanders> so I'm doing
[22:57] <jdsanders> sudo -u $USER sh -c "/usr/local/bin/redis-server /etc/redis-server.conf 2>&1 >> /var/log/redis/server.log"
[22:57] <jdsanders> problem is that it makes the fork count jankier
[22:57] <jdsanders> when I start the server it actually spawns three processes - one for sudo, one for sh, and one for redis-server
[22:58] <jdsanders> the pid i'd really like to track is the redis-server one
[22:58] <jdsanders> (which isn't doing any forking)
[22:58] <jdsanders> any better way to change users?
[23:00] <SpamapS> jdsanders: sudo is one way
[23:00] <SpamapS> jdsanders: better is start-stop-daemon
[23:00] <jdsanders> ah
[23:00] <jdsanders> ok
[23:00] <jdsanders> I'll look into that
[23:00] <SpamapS> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#changing-user
[23:01] <SpamapS> jdsanders: ^^
[23:01] <jdsanders> awesome, thank you
[23:01] <jdsanders> sorta related: how do i get out of the stop/killed state
[23:08] <jdsanders> I currently have: redis-server start/killed, process 20674
[23:08] <jdsanders> but: sudo kill -0 20674; echo $?
[23:08] <jdsanders> kill: No such process
[23:08] <jdsanders> 1
[23:08] <jdsanders> sudo stop redis-server seems to hang
[23:09] <SpamapS> jdsanders: ugh did you try 'expect fork' at one point?
[23:09] <jdsanders> i did
[23:09] <jdsanders> i was playing with it
[23:09] <SpamapS> Ok, thats a bug
[23:09] <jdsanders> and  seem to have foobared it right up
[23:09] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1087042/
[23:10] <SpamapS> this script loops over the pid space until it reaches the pid given
[23:10] <SpamapS> jdsanders: its python 3.. might have to port it to python2 ;)
[23:10] <jdsanders> so the theory here is that it's running somewhere, but i don't know where?
[23:10] <SpamapS> no
[23:10] <SpamapS> its not running
[23:10] <SpamapS> upstart thinks it should be
[23:10] <SpamapS> and will wait forever for it to die
[23:11] <jdsanders> so how does that script help?
[23:11] <SpamapS> it creates processes until the given process exists.. then lets upstart kill it
[23:11] <jdsanders> haha oooooooooooh, i get it
[23:11] <jdsanders> clever
[23:11] <SpamapS> not really, its a hack on hack on hack
[23:11] <jdsanders> is there any way to re-initialize upstart?
[23:11] <jdsanders> I could always just reboot
[23:11] <SpamapS> jdsanders: yes but then it forgets all job state
[23:11] <jdsanders> well yeah, hacks are clever
[23:11] <SpamapS> yeah reboot works if you're just noodling around
[23:12] <SpamapS> jdsanders: the original fix was in ruby and about 10 lines of it at that.. this one is just more friendly
[23:12] <jdsanders> what do you mean by "forgets all job state"
[23:12] <SpamapS> jdsanders: you can send upstart a command to re-execute itself, but then it forgets what is running and what is not
[23:12] <SpamapS> which means your shutdown does not go so smoothly
[23:15] <jdsanders> hmmm
[23:15] <jdsanders> ok i'll figure it out