[03:19] <imnichol> validate.sh is throwing an error on the version of the serverguide that I branched a few minutes ago.  Error is "serverguide.xml:2: element legalnotice: validity error: ID legal already defined"
[03:20] <imnichol> Anyone have any suggestions on how I could fix that?
[03:36] <imnichol> I grepped through the source and the only instances of the word "legal" in serverguide/C/* is that line (line 2 of serverguide.xml)
[03:47] <imnichol> Hm.  I'm on vivid, I'm thinking that this bug might be the cause: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737840#c4
[03:47] <ubot2`> Gnome bug 737840 in general "Spurious warning when expanding external entities containing ID attributes" [Normal,Assigned]


[05:14] <EriC^^> morning all
[05:25] <Bashing-om> WB EriC^^ :)
[05:56] <EriC^^> thanks Bashing-om :)
[06:02] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Good to have ya back ,., good help is so hard to come by :P
[06:02] <EriC^^> :P
[06:21] <ducasse> good morning
[06:29] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Ahhh .. the morning crew is arriving :)
[06:31] <ducasse> hi Bashing-om, how have you been? still going well with the non-smoking?
[06:41] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I had hoped by now to be at least down to the 4 hits .. but NOooooo. still at 6 at 2 hours or so :( Nasty habit !
[06:48] <Bashing-om> ducasse: The good is that when I leave the house, I do not carry my smoking with me and I do not get stressed out if I am away for more than the 2 hours :D
[06:49] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, you can do it. Do not give up.
[06:49] <ducasse> Bashing-om: i'm impressed you're still going :) well done, keep it up and you'll get there
[06:49] <ducasse> hi JimBuntu
[06:49] <ducasse> all well this morning?
[06:49] <JimBuntu> hi ducasse . Good morning to you and to Luna.
[06:50] <Bashing-om> ducasse: ya gotta want to ! ,, and the rest is will power .
[06:51] <Bashing-om> ducasse: sadly .. I like to smoke - just because  I need to does not mean I want to :(
[06:52] <ducasse> Bashing-om: exactly the same here, i'm under doctor's orders to quit, but i just don't want to. makes it difficult to build up motivation.
[06:53] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, I worked in tobacco for years... so did my wife, that's where I met her (work related). I quit smoking accidentally... I tried vaping as a new way to add to my tobacco use,,, wound up not wanting cigarettes within a week, It has been this way for about 5 years now.
[06:54] <EriC^^> do you still vape?
[06:55] <JimBuntu> I do still vape. ( I don't consider that smoking)
[06:56] <Bashing-om> JimBuntu: I have tried all the diversions .. and though I have bad COPD I still want my pipe .
[06:57] <EriC^^> JimBuntu: i watched infinity chamber, nice movie
[06:57] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, Ah, you use a pipe. I did too, much harder to break than cigarettes. I will say, they make special vape equipment for pipe smokers. I have some and it is different from normal.
[06:57] <EriC^^> i feel like it could have been way 'huger' if it had like a production stuff kinda thing going
[06:58] <JimBuntu> EriC^^, +9000. I am watching that again this weekend, already planned it. I doubt it will be as good as the first time, but I don't mind.
[06:58] <EriC^^> there's a movie that reminded me of it a little, it's totally different but has similar concept 'source code'
[06:59] <JimBuntu> I *think* I have seen that move too,need to check
[06:59] <EriC^^> it's about a guy who has to relive the last 8 minutes of somebody's life over and over til he finds out who is trying to bomb the train
[06:59] <JimBuntu> Oh, yes... I liked that movie!
[07:00] <JimBuntu> He winds up figuring out how to stay alive in the 'alternate' reality
[07:00] <EriC^^> there's an old movie i just reminded of.. hmm let me see the name
[07:00] <EriC^^> 'The jacket'
[07:01] <JimBuntu> 'The Jacket' has Kris Kristofferson ... basically assured to be good, in my book.
[07:04] <EriC^> JimBuntu: have you seen the jacket? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366627/
[07:05] <JimBuntu> I don't think so. Since it was mentioned, it's now on my list.
[07:05] <EriC^> it's very good, it's about a soldier who comes back from war, and he wounds up by mistake in some mental ward where they're making experiments by putting people in those chambers where you see and hear nothing for long periods
[07:06] <EriC^> and he goes on a bunch of stuff in time and stuff like that, it's very good, the lead actor is adrien body
[07:06] <JimBuntu> Sensory deprivation, yup, sounds interesting.
[07:07] <EriC^> soundtrack is pretty amazing too, very soothing
[07:07] <JimBuntu> Soundtracks make all the difference. Have you seen "Drive" (2011) ?
[07:07] <EriC^> nope i dont think so
[07:08] <EriC^> insta-downloading :D
[07:08] <JimBuntu> That one is really good too, in my book. Stars Ryan Gosling, before he was big and famous
[07:08] <EriC^> looks good and ryan gosling so good actor
[07:09] <JimBuntu> It's basically a drawn out version of an Aesops Fable ( Toad and the scorpion)
[07:09] <JimBuntu> Although, I would say it's told in a way that even Aesop would adore.
[07:10] <EriC^> aha
[07:12] <JimBuntu> I find that I am drawn to the retelling of the old stories, don't even have to be that old...
[07:14] <EriC^> you mean like true stories
[07:14] <EriC^> ?
[07:17] <JimBuntu> Well, I mainly mean 'the classics'. Mostly, the stories that were once told my mouth only, eventually written down... the kind of stuff that a grandparent tells to their grandchildren at bed time.
[07:17] <EriC^> ah i see
[07:17] <EriC^> can you give an example?
[07:19] <JimBuntu> A toad is walking by a river, notices a scorpion. They begin to discuss the weather, The Toad says goodbye and declares it is going to the other side of the river... the scorpion asks the toad if it will help him.
[07:19] <JimBuntu> The scorpion tells the toad that it too would like to cross the river.
[07:20] <JimBuntu> The toad says "No.
[07:20] <JimBuntu> The scorpion tells the toad, that if it lets it ride on the toads back, to the other side of the river, then it would surely not sting the toad.
[07:21] <JimBuntu> The toad thinks about this and agrees... while crossing the river, the two talk of many things... at some point the toad feels the sharp pain of being stung.
[07:22] <JimBuntu> As they are sinking, due to the sting... the toad turnds it's head a bit to look at the scorpion and asks "Why?".
[07:22] <JimBuntu> The scorpion replies as it only knows how... "Because, I am a scorpion, my friend."
[07:22] <JimBuntu> ^^ very short version
[07:23] <JimBuntu> Once the toad begins to die, they both sink into the water. All is lost.
[07:24] <ducasse> those fables are excellent, been a while since i read them.
[07:24] <JimBuntu> I have an old copy in print. They are the things religions are made from.
[07:24] <EriC^> interesting
[07:25] <EriC^> i dont agree with it, but it's interesting
[07:25] <EriC^> i think i've heard it before as a child or something
[07:26] <EriC^> the premise is that people dont change? that's the moral of the story?
[07:26] <JimBuntu> It's odd, how different we are today. I have read these stories to my children. The children are more stuck on all kinds of small details than they are on the 'big picture'. I figure it's something that requires a certain amount of experience to understand. That is OK. I will keep reading them, until they understand the true meanings.
[07:27] <JimBuntu> EriC^, it requires interpreting, and while there are many interpretations, I don't think there is a 'right' or 'wrong' answer.
[07:28] <EriC^> hmm, to me it seemed like he's saying 'i did this because i'm a scorpion' it means that it's his nature and he doesnt change
[07:28] <EriC^> whether what he did is 'bad' or 'good' is a whole other debate
[07:28] <JimBuntu> The way I take it, the scorpion is a predator and a killer. It is meant to kill things, and most know this. It's in it's nature. To ask it to not kill, is an abomination of the natural order.
[07:29] <EriC^> but i dont agree, i think the scorpion could befriend the toad and at least not sting him since they are cooperating
[07:29] <EriC^> lions tigers and bears have known to become friends (all 3 at once even)
[07:30] <JimBuntu> I agree EriC^ and in reality this is how things work, we resist our natural calling, for self-benefit.
[07:30] <ducasse> this is a fable, you goy to take it as such.
[07:30] <ducasse> *got
[07:30] <JimBuntu> I think the point of the story isn't about this, it's about knowing that if you are asking nature (or a person/etc) to change, be prepared for them not to.
[07:31] <JimBuntu> In the print version, the toad and the scorpion dwell on if the scorpion might sting the toad... and the scorpion always re-assures they it will not.
[07:32] <EriC^> but that's just propagating fear and prejudice and generalization and ill knowledge
[07:33] <JimBuntu> "prejudice and generalization and ill knowledge" like I said,... this is the stuff religions are made of.
[07:33] <JimBuntu> lol
[07:34] <EriC^> yup exactly :D
[07:34] <JimBuntu> These fables are meant to teach lessons, not to be taken literally. The point is, learn from mistakes, don't expect others to change... even if your life is at risk, Do for others, despite the risk,
[07:35] <JimBuntu> My family has a saying, "Those who can..., MUST, for those that can't."
[07:35] <EriC^> that's kind of opposite
[07:36] <EriC^> that's a nice saying
[07:37] <EriC^> so do good with others despite the risk, but dont expect people to change cause you cant control what they do
[07:37] <JimBuntu> Thanks, it's a lot better than the previous family motto... that was basically, "Enjoy the beautiful prairie"
[07:38] <JimBuntu> Yes, help others, while not expecting them to appreciate it or to not attack you
[07:39] <EriC^> but doesn't it suck to be the toad sinking in the water after getting stung?
[07:39] <Bashing-om> JimBuntu: ^^ sounds like support :)
[07:39] <JimBuntu> Do "good", simply to do so, despite any risks.
[07:40] <JimBuntu> Bashing-om, lol, yes, it does sound like volunteer support.
[07:40] <EriC^> assuming i'm helping someone online, and he needs my ssh login to be helped, and he's done some naughty stuff, i should still help him?
[07:40] <EriC^> by giving my ssh login and then not expect him to delete my entire family photos and such and delicate info
[07:41] <EriC^> that doesn't seem practical, if a person does that many times in a row he'll surely get pretty devastated
[07:41] <JimBuntu> EriC^, all decisions rest upon your soul. At the same time, to do something that risks your own well-being, is also a risk that may prevent your future support of others... scales are meant for many things, even though risks and rewards can be difficult to measure in this physical realm
[07:42] <EriC^> well the number one priority is survival of the self and well being
[07:43] <JimBuntu> Yes, our primary task must not be forgotten or negated.
[07:43] <EriC^> if i do something with that magnitude of risk it'd be stupid and as you said might devastate my own self
[07:43] <JimBuntu> Task #2, caring for our family and beloved, must also not be forgotten.
[07:45] <JimBuntu> For the few, they place the care of others above all else. This is OK, over-all, as without these few people, we would not be here. It is not something the majority are asked to do though. This i why we call them saints, and give them a special place.
[07:46] <EriC^> hmm i think sainthood is a psychological problem
[07:46] <JimBuntu> Eh, what do I know... the child of farmers, the lover of technology.
[07:46] <EriC^> sainthood itself, i'm not talking about somebody having to diffuse a bomb to save a village and knows he's going to die in the process
[07:46] <EriC^> that's just the right thing to do in that situation
[07:47] <EriC^> but i think saints are people who've had some kind of hardship, or lack of something, and then go the sainthood route
[07:47] <JimBuntu> Exactly. When presented with a problem that requires sacrifice for the "greater" good... not all will make the right choice. Many "today" ignore the problem instead of solving it.
[07:48] <EriC^> hmm maybe
[07:48] <LtWorf> EriC^:
[07:48] <LtWorf> *defuse
[07:48] <EriC^> how many people wouldn't do it though, i think we all have it in us to do that
[07:48] <EriC^> LtWorf: :D
[07:49] <JimBuntu> LtWorf, hmmm... bomb designs should include more fuses... the in-case of overload, physically degrade, kinds.
[07:50] <JimBuntu> EriC^, sadly, while we may all have it within us, most flee rather than fight. This is shown day in and day out, by how many bystanders allow for things to happen.
[07:50] <EriC^> hmm
[07:51] <EriC^> yeah they do it for many reasons, one being what we mentioned earlier, the primary mission
[07:51] <EriC^> could be a million reasons why they just stand
[07:52] <LtWorf> mostly it's too sudden for them to process it
[07:52] <JimBuntu> Yes, back to the "scales"... we all have them, some of us lean on one side or the other.
[07:52] <JimBuntu> I do not "blame" them for acting in one way or another, they are not obliged to help everyone.
[07:53] <JimBuntu> I will reward those that choose to help though.
[07:53] <EriC^> yeah blame can't be had, in reality for them it would be the better choice, so they are actually doing what's worse for them, as human beings
[07:54] <JimBuntu> This is our struggle. Help and risk much, or ignore and risk less... eventually though, we will possibly be the ones on the other side of the decision and be asking for help.
[07:54] <EriC^> that's true
[07:55] <EriC^> we ultimately do it for ourselves, doing good feels good in the end
[07:55] <EriC^> when the scales are off it's due to other problems
[07:55] <EriC^> cause nobody would knowingly do that, they dont know how to solve a problem etc and they're doing that instead
[07:56] <JimBuntu> Doing good feels good, is contagious and such,... many, even the non-religious, still expect some kind of balance in the world. "If I do good now, then good should be done for me later"
[07:57] <JimBuntu> The reality is that there is no balance, we have to create that.... as interactive entities. imho
[07:58] <EriC^> yup
[08:18] <Bashing-om> Off to bed ,, back on in about 12 hours . \o
[08:19] <ducasse> sleep well Bashing-om
[09:35] <Gargravarr> did SegFault1 really just ask us to help them cheat on an exam?
[09:35]  * Gargravarr shakes head
[09:36] <guiverc> :)
[11:34] <guiverc> Howdy JimBuntu, thanks.
[12:53] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:53] <BluesKaj> BBL
[21:17] <SlidingHorn> quiet in main...not sure if that's a good thing or a bad one lol


[00:00] <seto> so i figure kde plasma various drivers chrome for my browser vlc and few other needed apps
[00:00] <Bashing-om> I like ! .. All I can say . Fast, light and your own configuration to suit your own use case . There is a steep learning curve .
[00:00] <seto> stripping out stuff manually i got this install down to like 3 gb
[00:00] <seto> well i installed pure debian before
[00:01] <seto> so it shouldnt be to hard honestly
[00:01] <seto> i suspect that my wifi drivers will be there im just using a basic intel wifi card
[00:02] <seto> Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev 83)
[00:02] <Bashing-om> well, the trick is discovering what you do not have .. for instance anacron .
[00:02] <Bashing-om> seto: Nope .. no WIFI .. ya got to build it .
[00:02] <seto> ahh crap
[00:03] <seto> wont work then
[00:03] <seto> uck wants to put all the tmp files in my home dir
[00:03] <seto> meanign i cant build because of no space
[00:03] <seto> bleh typos
[00:04] <Bashing-om> set one can move /tmp to ram .
[00:05] <seto> yeh doubt that will work well lol
[00:05] <seto> 2gb ram only on this thing lol
[00:06] <seto> i have lots of space on my 32gb sd card
[00:06] <seto> but not seeing much in the way of help for making uck use that
[00:09] <Bashing-om> You want your cake and eat it too ? - install wired and build the WIFI ?? There are ways to trim down the install footprint . system directories elsewhere with symlinks ??
[00:10] <seto> well with this thing i got no wired lol
[00:10] <seto> i got 2x usb ports charge port and sd card slot and a hdmi thats it
[00:11] <seto> symlinks might be my only other option
[00:13] <seto> what i wonder is how small i can got with ubuntu with kde plasma chrome and vlc
[00:13] <seto> im thinking pretty damn small really
[00:14] <seto> if/when i learn enough i might try putting together my own deb based distro
[00:14] <Bashing-om> seto: Well .. do not know .. From what I have seen tearing down to a small size is disaster prone .
[00:14] <seto> aim for something very tiny
[00:15] <seto> yeh can end up with a non functional system pretty fast lol
[00:16] <Bashing-om> seto: Tiny is "tiny core" .. or DSL . I do meam tiny ! But the amazing thing is that they work and are full featured .
[00:16] <seto> heheh dsl i remember that one
[00:17] <Bashing-om> DSL impresses me much. I have installed it on several clients with old old hardware they do not want to dump .
[00:17] <seto> im just wondering is dsl will run properly on my chrome book
[00:18] <seto> distros can be goofy with sound and vid on this thing
[00:18] <Bashing-om> seto: A d/l is quick .. soon find out .. I have not messeed with a chromebook .. so I do not know  other than there can be "problems" installing another OS .
[00:19] <seto> well this is already a full linux no chrome os setup
[00:19] <seto> i played with the chroot set up quite fun
[00:19] <seto> but quite limited on hd space lit barely 2gb remained
[00:20] <seto> was looking at tiny core all i can say is lol 12mb ....
[00:21] <seto> my biggest fear with dsl would be dependencies
[00:21] <seto> like i want vlc kde plasma and chrome full sound net and proper vid
[00:21] <seto> if it can do that the rest i can fiddle with
[00:22] <Bashing-om> seto: All I can say is I have installed DSL mostly Intel based .. and never a problem with the default/standard install .
[00:23] <seto> what about installing various stuff like chrome etc?
[00:24] <Bashing-om> seto: Now that might be a problem .. the default browser is firefox . I have never changed it .
[00:25] <seto> yeh i play exactly one game and it is flash based
[00:25] <seto> ff flash support blows fecking chunks
[00:27] <Bashing-om> seto: Agreed . Why I now run google-chrome . Shame on Adobe ,, My wife runs a graphics work station ; when flash failed us she had to return to Windows ..
[00:27] <seto> ooooh nice whats the specs on the work station?
[00:27] <seto> i use to own a bit of history
[00:28] <seto> i had the sgi workstation that had the exact same specs as the ones used for the original jurasic park!
[00:28] <seto> i paid 4500 for it about 4 or 5 years after JP came out
[00:28] <seto> and put another 4500 in it to bring it up to date
[00:29] <Bashing-om> Bad boy Intel with 16 Gigs ram . running Win10 .
[00:29] <seto> nice all but 10 .....
[00:29] <seto> i wouldnt put ten on a system if you paid me 500 a day to run it lol
[00:30] <seto> i think that windows is gona be gone flat out with in5 years time
[00:30] <seto> MS screwed p to many times
[00:30] <seto> they had 4 major os flops now
[00:30] <Bashing-om> Hey, not my choice, or my likes .. It is her system and her work .. and what she likes .. she does affirm she likes the new Win10 .
[00:30] <seto> ME vista 8/8.1 and ten
[00:31] <seto> they had 2 (3 if you count 8 and 8.1 seperately) flops in a row
[00:31] <daftykins> pathetic opinion regarding Windows
[00:32] <daftykins> no doubt you've read into the classic sensational rubbish online :)
[00:32] <seto> not really
[00:32] <Bashing-om> detI have a distict aversion to anyuthing Windows . I came up open source, tried Windows .. and came running back to open source .. settled on ubuntu // from ubuntu I have looked at no other .
[00:32] <seto> i work on comps all the time lol
[00:32] <seto> comp tech with 22 years under my belt
[00:32] <daftykins> gone in 5 years when you still have to edit xorg.conf to get ubuntu working on certain configs? get real
[00:32] <daftykins> can't be that good at what you do then
[00:32] <seto> actually im very good
[00:33] <daftykins> hah modest too
[00:33] <seto> the problem is windows 10 is a jacked up spyish os
[00:33] <seto> why be modest?
[00:33] <daftykins> careful, your tinfoil body suit is showing
[00:33] <seto> no tinfoil here
[00:33] <seto> i use to be a windows fan
[00:33] <seto> all i used was windows as my main os
[00:34] <seto> i just know what i see
[00:34] <daftykins> no you're regurgitating what the news sites have said
[00:34] <seto> I just did a computer the other day that had a windows 10 auto and forced (basically) update
[00:34] <seto> the system no longer boots at all
[00:35] <daftykins> reports of that are dubious at best
[00:35] <seto> had to reinstall windows 8.1 from bootable usb to fix it
[00:35] <seto> dubious?
[00:35] <seto> this guy never clicked on any thing
[00:35] <seto> he comes in to work and his system is hanging on boot
[00:35] <seto> we got it booted once
[00:35] <seto> and was presented with the windows 10 desk top
[00:36] <seto> he clicked the x on the upgrade notice box a few days prior
[00:36] <seto> thinking it would do as it always does and cancle the box
[00:36] <seto> cancel even
[00:36] <daftykins> you don't need to keep pressing enter btw, gets quite spammy
[00:36] <seto> instead that is the same as agreeing to the install
[00:36] <seto> sorry
[00:37] <seto> and there are others who have had the same issue that i have worked on. Some just do not like 10 others had no clue it was going to install etc
[00:38] <daftykins> i think they're just biased from the fear of change, so they're soured against it for that reason
[00:38] <seto> well i like allot of people like some of the changes to 10
[00:39] <seto> but not the way ms is basically forcing it on people thats just a bad idea
[00:39] <seto> as for fear of change in the last 5 or 6 weeks i have installed kubuntu on prob 15 or so systems for my customers
[00:40] <seto> and sense when does deb have live cd images? ...
[00:41] <dax> debian? about a decade
[00:41] <seto> with live cds?
[00:41] <dax> yes
[00:41] <dax> they're not default, but they're there
[00:41] <seto> i never seen it with a live desk top based install
[00:41] <seto> well damn lol
[00:41] <seto> my issues just got solved ....
[00:42] <seto> i know i can strip a deb install way the hell down
[00:42] <seto> my issue with debian was no internet at install time
[00:42] <seto> i suspect i can get deb to sub 3 gb install with lots of ease
[01:04] <NorbyDroid> Thank you Bashing-om.
[01:04] <NorbyDroid> I have been runnin a test on the drive and I will say it definately needs to be replaced.
[01:05] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Me .. I say again .. KISS .. I like it simple .
[01:05] <daftykins> SMART data > SMART tests
[01:05] <NorbyDroid> Quite.
[01:05] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Ouch ! I got a flakey drive too I have to replace .
[01:06] <NorbyDroid> Smart tests say the drive is good but the actual surface and other tests reveals alof of bad read/write areas.
[01:06] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: daftykins is great on SMART results .
[01:07] <daftykins> some call me... the disk killer
[01:07] <NorbyDroid> The system I am workin to use as a main system for my project is an old tablet computer (laptop) Centrino Duo (dual core) 2Ghz 2GB ram.
[01:07] <daftykins> Centrino is not a processor
[01:08] <NorbyDroid> The project is originally DOS but I also have it in Linux.  It is all text no graphics and includes time, date, progress bars, a robot, train, earth and moon, and a calendar for creating events that will be displayed on the train.
[01:16] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Got another drive handy .. or is the project at a stand still ?
[01:20] <NorbyDroid> I work on it with multiple computers and OS so definately not at a standstill.  I don't have another drive for the laptop and considering 1) 16GB SSD, SD->SATA adapter, or another SATA hard drive.
[01:23] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: UuuHHH.. SSD fast ! Not evem another thought .
[01:24] <daftykins> 16GB though? that's not an SSD
[01:25] <NorbyDroid> Quite, but I don't need speed.
[01:25] <NorbyDroid> Yes it is.  Let me find the link.
[01:27] <NorbyDroid> http://www.amazon.com/Kingspec-KSD-SA25-7-Channel-Internal-Solid/dp/B00JYB99O4/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
[01:29] <NorbyDroid> I am doin alot of research before I make my final decision.
[01:30] <OerHeks> lol 8 gb .. http://www.amazon.com/KingDian-Advertising-machine-client-Router/dp/B014VT6MLQ
[01:34] <NorbyDroid> I think that title is definately wrong.  It seems to be just a normal SSD not anything else.
[01:36] <daftykins> i wouldn't touch that
[01:38] <NorbyDroid> I look at reviews.  The more the better.  Ones with very little to none are really iffy and should be approached with extreme caution.
[01:40] <NorbyDroid> over 500 errors so far.  Definately a bad drive.
[01:51] <daftykins> "smartctl -a /dev/sdx" <-- all that's needed
[02:00] <seto> well 2 hours 30 more minutes till me deb live cd is finished dling lol
[02:01]  * daftykins looks at the channel name
[02:02] <OerHeks> just keep on watching youtube while you wait, seto
[02:02] <NorbyDroid> Please define ranting.
[02:02] <seto> heheh how did you know :p
[02:38] <NorbyDroid> Okay, don't tell me, but I took an 80GB sata outa an xp laptop and gonna try the ubuntu net install again.  Didn't want to but....
[02:40] <daftykins> why net install?
[02:41] <NorbyDroid> I wanna have the barest possible install and that is the only way I know to do it.  Just the command interface, x11, package support and internet.
[02:41] <NorbyDroid> And whatever is needed for said items.
[02:42] <daftykins> mmhmm.
[02:42] <NorbyDroid> Not sayin that what I wanna do will succeed, but I am gonna give it a go and see what happens.  Can't do any harm.
[02:43] <NorbyDroid> Actually I find tryin out stuff to be quite enjoyable.
[02:45] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: You are not only held tp a netinstall for a minimal install ; See: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD .
[02:45] <NorbyDroid> otw
[02:46] <NorbyDroid> That is what I use.  The mini.iso image for Ubuntu 16.04
[02:46] <NorbyDroid> 32Bit edition
[02:46] <NorbyDroid> Called NetBoot
[02:51] <daftykins> no, net boot is deb talk
[03:38] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[03:38] <tntsp1> Good morning.
[03:43] <tntsp1> I've recently installed Lubuntu on a few older computers. I'd love to pick up some tips on using it to its full potential from a few old hats. Do ya'll have any favorite pieces of software/applications for ubuntu?
[03:43] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/ ; shift change already ?
[03:44] <lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om im bit early :p
[03:44] <lotuspsychje> tntsp1: defenatly preload
[03:44] <lotuspsychje> !info preload | tntsp1
[03:44] <Bashing-om> OH get your IRC quota before "work" ?
[03:45] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: tuesday my 2 weeks course starts :p
[03:46] <Bashing-om> Well, we all look forward to the tid bits that get added into the IRC pantry .
[03:47] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i wont leave for sure, but it will shorten my online times
[03:49] <tntsp1> This sounds like a great application, even for low RAM systems. I'm now taking notes. Any others? Free games, like supertuxkart?
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> tntsp1: yeah for games check software center
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> tntsp1: mupdf and smplayer are nice, powerfull and lightweight
[03:57] <tntsp1> lotuspsychje: I have and telling which games are decent is difficult, to say the least. Why smplayer over VLC?
[03:59] <lotuspsychje> tntsp1: i found smplayer lighter then vlc on many 1080p movies
[04:00] <lotuspsychje> tntsp1: depends mostly on the graphics card ofcourse, but still smplayer is a nice piece of software
[04:02] <tntsp1> lotuspsychje: That makes sense, although the system currently only has a 360p screen. I'll have to install it over VLC from now on, if it is less resource hungry.
[04:13] <lotuspsychje> we recently discussed how robots will take over jobs here...
[04:14] <lotuspsychje> check this out: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966
[05:43] <lotuspsychje> morning baizon
[05:43] <baizon> hi lotuspsychje
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> ibrumfield: morning
[05:49] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: morning
[05:53] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: how ya been?
[05:53] <lotuspsychje> great tnx and you ibrumfield
[05:55] <ibrumfield> lotuspsychje: not bad, picked up a raspberry pi 3. messing with that in the little free time i have
[05:55] <lotuspsychje> cool
[06:17] <ducasse> morning all
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse :p
[06:22] <ducasse> you good, lotuspsychje? :)
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> great and yourself ducasse ?
[06:23] <ducasse> bright-eyed and bushy-tailed ;)
[06:26] <ducasse> i've ordered the mikrotik router, and am waiting for lg to get back to me on how to unlock the bootloader on my phone. today i hpåe to do a little work on the ppa-purge wrapper Eric^^ and I were working on.
[06:26] <ducasse> *hope
[06:27] <lotuspsychje> cool
[06:28] <ducasse> trying to rewrite the main part in sed, but i'm just so bad with regexps :(
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> yeah im not script wizard myself, sed aint easy
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: how much did the router cost?
[06:30] <ducasse> i got it brand-new for about half price, about £65.
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> neat
[06:31] <ducasse> http://routerboard.com/RB2011iL-RM
[06:33] <lotuspsychje> nice piece
[06:34] <ducasse> i'm just going to use it as a firewall + switch, so it should be good. i have a few 100mbps clients (like the rpi), so 5 gbps ports is enough. i use an openwrt router as an ap.
[06:35] <lotuspsychje> great
[06:37] <ducasse> i think it will be fine. do you have any experience with any of the httpd daemons?
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> no sorry
[09:22] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[09:22] <ducasse> hi, BluesKaj
[09:23] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
[09:23] <BluesKaj> woke up early
[09:25] <ducasse> i've been up for a few hours, it's *pouring* down here.
[09:27] <BluesKaj> warm and humid here today, 30C and 90% humidity
[09:27] <BluesKaj> forecast
[09:28] <ducasse> 30 is too hot for me, can't stand anything over 25 :)
[09:30] <BluesKaj> we're becoming used to the warmer temps and ppl are buying A/C systems or having them installed much more than in past yrs
[09:34] <ducasse> winters have gotten warmer here, but i haven't noticed it in the summers. when i was a kid we regularly had -30° and a meter of snow for four mmonths, now we might have -15 and 20cm.
[09:37] <BluesKaj> last winter was much milder than the previous, but we still have the odd -25 cold nights
[09:41] <ducasse> nights might get that cold here, but not days. at least not for several years. but i live pretty far south.
[09:43] <ducasse> i'm trying to choose a web server daemon for my ubuntu vps, not sure if i should go with one of the big ones or use something lightweight.
[09:43] <BluesKaj> well, by european stds we're quite far south, but not by NA perspective
[09:46] <BluesKaj> dunno anything about vps , never had the need for one i guess
[09:48] <ducasse> i use it as a mail server, and so i have access to a familiar shell with my usual tools when i can't reach my home network. now i need to serve a few static pages, stuff like my public gpg key etc.
[09:53] <BluesKaj> we have simple needs , gmail webmail works for our setups
[09:55] <ducasse> for many it does, but i don't want google scanning my mail to push the most profitable ads at me. never mind who they might share them with.
[09:58] <BluesKaj> adblock works
[10:01] <ducasse> sure, i never actually see ads, but that's not the point - my mail should be private. i encrypt a lot of it anyway, but i still don't want it to be automatically scanned by anyone.
[10:02] <ducasse> but that's just my opinion. i'm pretty particular about things like that.
[10:08] <BluesKaj> never had anything worriesome happen using gmail. It's just ordinary family or friends correspondence
[10:10] <ducasse> sure, i think europeans might feel more strongly about privacy in general...
[10:19] <BluesKaj> my family is originally from Finland, we emigrated to Canada in 1947 when i was a small child, but we were never more private than most of the people born here, they were actually more private than what our family was used to.
[10:20] <BluesKaj> fear of strangers, suspicious
[10:24] <ducasse> possible. north americans seem more willing to accept mass-surveillance than we do, though. also, the government here heavily advocates using encryption. unlike the us, for example.
[10:25] <ducasse> ...and we actually _have_ data protection laws. dunno about canada, though, i admit that.
[10:26] <BluesKaj> i have nothing to hide anyway , live a pretty ordinary life , don't think we draw much attention
[10:27] <ducasse> me neither. but i don't think "if you have nothing to hide..." is any kind of argument. we all have things we like to keep private.
[10:32] <ducasse> another thing is that i just like things like email to be under my control. i can do what i want with the server, set up any fubctionality i might want, and tailor it to suit my needs. but it's too much work for most people, i recognize that. email can be hard to administer correctly.
[10:32] <ducasse> *functionality
[10:32] <BluesKaj> of course, but there are some things we don't talk about in public anyway, encrypted or not, that's my POV
[10:33] <ducasse> i don't view email as "in public" :)
[10:35] <BluesKaj>  you must, otherwise why the encryption ?
[10:37] <ducasse> you need to expressly take action to intercept someone's email, and not anyone can do it. it's still a semi-private conversation that nobody except sender and recipient has any business reading.
[10:40] <BluesKaj> well, then privacy is a matter of degree, and I regard email/webmil as public if it can be intercepted by intersted parties, that's all , but I don't think my emails are all that interesting :-)
[10:45] <ducasse> under our laws, email is considered private. i just have a problem with facebook and google having so much information on people, so i use neither.
[10:45] <ducasse> but my emails are _not_ interesting either :-)
[10:47] <BluesKaj> of course emails are private correspondence under most democratic countries' laws, that's a given, but there are plenty of lawbrekers out there
[10:48] <ducasse> that's why i encrypt :)
[10:51] <BluesKaj> and tha's why i look at email as public, but I still see the point of encrypting ordinary email, because  who really cares anyway?
[10:52] <BluesKaj> don't see the point  :-)
[10:53] <ducasse> it's just so easy to set up, so in my opinion - why not? :) of course, i still correspond with people who don't use pgp, and i don't insist on it. i'm not fanatical about it or anything.
[10:59] <ducasse> but if anyone were to decrypt my emails they would be terribly disappointed to have expended the effort :) no plots to overthrow any governments :)
[17:11] <NorbyDroid> Bashing-om, It sems the 16.04 is broken at this time.  All tests in virtual and live systems it goes through the install fine but once completed ya cannot get in without goin through the 'Recovery Mode'.  14.04 and 15.10 do work as expected.
[17:12] <NorbyDroid> The mini.iso installs.
[17:16] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Ouch .. I have not to this time looked at the 16.04 mini . Do not know what to say other than verify the md5sums .
[17:18] <NorbyDroid> Just lettin ya know my tests.  No worries.  Gonna use the 15.10 for now.
[17:19] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: I do appreciate the heads up and I do intend a fresh clean install of 16.04 mini when I get a longed for SSD to install onto .
[17:20] <NorbyDroid> Bashing-om, Okay.  Let me know when ya do and the results.  Thank you.
[17:21] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Maybe a while as finances are tight right now .
[17:21] <NorbyDroid> Bashing-om, I know how that is all too well.
[17:24] <Bashing-om> My system is "crippled" with an un-reliable hard drive .. but I can limp along 'til I can do better ,, and the better is - I want an SSD !
[17:25] <NorbyDroid> That is understandable.
[17:25] <BluesKaj> the samsung evo 850s are on sale at amazon Bashing-om ...I think
[17:28] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Well .. will have to check .. Presently if $100.00 were on sale for $10.00, I would not be able to purchase :) Daughters !
[17:29] <BluesKaj> Bashing-om, understood , i have 3 duaghters , all grown and gone now , but I recall very well what you mean. :-)
[17:31] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Be prepared .. Daughters can return with more bodies in tow than they left with .
[17:32] <BluesKaj> daughters even...it already happened
[17:33] <OerHeks> al least you don't have to trim daughters.
[17:33] <BluesKaj> no trim needed for the newer ssds
[17:34] <BluesKaj> altho I suppose it can't hurt
[17:35] <OerHeks> just finished chicken and rice .. or should i have waited for the chicken
[17:37] <Bashing-om> Chicken is good, in some instances serves better than an SSD .
[17:38] <OerHeks> yes, they are picky
[17:41] <Bashing-om> Done advised daughters, they can cease being picky - daddy wants his SSD ( and a decent Nvidia graphic's card ).
[17:43] <ducasse> i'm lookin for a nice m.2 ssd for my desktop to replace a sata ssd, can't decide between samsung and intel.
[17:45] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Samsung is really playing their new controller algorythims up ... sure looks enticing for the money as compared to what Intel wants .
[17:46] <ducasse> yes, the 950 looks nice. i'll probably go for that as the other ssd (the one i'll keep) in that machine is samsung.
[17:47] <BluesKaj> ducasse, the M2 are almost twice the price of the sata
[17:48] <ducasse> i know, but *much* faster :)
[17:49] <BluesKaj> don't see how it could get much faster on this old pc , proly can't use the M2 type anyway
[17:49] <ducasse> i'm just getting a small one for / anyway, i have a big sata ssd for /home - good enough.
[17:51] <BluesKaj> yeah, I have  / and /home on this ssd , but all the media files are on an outboard sata drive
[17:53] <ducasse> all the media and stuff is on my zfs mirror on the nfs server, i don't care about speeds for that. root and home, however...
[22:24] <NorbyDroid> I am fully functional now.  Had to go and use 14.04  including wifi.
[22:27] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Outstanding ! Glad ya made it .
[22:28] <NorbyDroid> Not as much as I Bashing-om.
[22:29] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: I can imagine .. logging .. check that you need 'anacron' I had to install it in my 1st install way bck .
[22:29] <Bashing-om> back*
[22:30] <NorbyDroid> I don't get why I can't boot via 15.10/16.04 installs, but 14.04 seems to be fully functional so will start there.
[22:31] <NorbyDroid> I have wifi (usin an external wifi usb stick) so that is a plus.
[22:32] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: I do not have a clue why 15.10+ would have issues . but 14.04 will upgrade when the need arises :)
[22:33] <NorbyDroid> That is good.
[22:35] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: I am a nut about my logs. check ' cat /etc/crontab ' is "anacron" required in your install per that file ?
[22:35] <NorbyDroid> one moment and i'll check.
[22:39] <NorbyDroid> It is mentioned 3 times in the file.
[22:39] <NorbyDroid> /usr/sbin/anacron
[22:40] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Took me a WHILE to fugure out in that initial install that anacron is not installed . check ' dpkg -l anacron ' .
[22:44] <NorbyDroid> un anacron none none no description
[22:44] <NorbyDroid> I guess it might not be installed
[22:44] <NorbyDroid> What is that needed for?
[22:45] <NorbyDroid> I have the compiler I use and the dependencies installed.  Now I have to transfer over my source files and compile and run it to see if it works.
[22:45] <NorbyDroid> Where is the pizza and party hats?  rofl
[22:46] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Logging . do : ' apt show anacron ' for an eyefull .
[22:48] <Bashing-om> After all the effort, and expectation .. past and future .. you are for sure ready to celebrate .. bring on the party !
[22:48] <NorbyDroid> lol
[22:49] <NorbyDroid> Okay I now have alot of learning to get used to the linux command line.
[22:49] <NorbyDroid> I am already well versed in the art of DOS, but this is a new turkey.
[22:50] <NorbyDroid> If I hook up a USB stick to the USB port, how do I get it usable?
[22:50] <NorbyDroid> I know mount and umount are commands to actually connect/disconnect it
[22:53] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: System will auto detect -- ouch no desktop . let's stick it in and see what the logs say ' tail -f /var/log/syslog ' and them connect the usb drive . Generally  gvfs will pick up and mount it .. no GUI not sure what will happen .
[22:54] <NorbyDroid> oops already connected it.
[22:55] <NorbyDroid> Mentions sdb
[22:56] <NorbyDroid> ChronosBot Kernel  lol
[22:57] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: well .. single hard drive on the box ? then we can "assume" sdb is the usb drive .. verify by ' sudo fdisk -lu ' .
[22:58] <NorbyDroid> Verified
[23:00] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: ' ls -al /media/<username> ' gives us the ID of the device ..once we have the ID we can access it in terminal .
[23:01] <NorbyDroid> /dev/sdb1
[23:03] <NorbyDroid> I did a quick google search and got it.  Now the issue is copyin the MyNorby folder to the home folder.
[23:04] <NorbyDroid> For me, at least, this stuff is a breeze.  lol
[23:05] <NorbyDroid> If I run ' cp MyNorby ~/ ' I get error ' omitting directory MyNorby '
[23:09] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: K .. still need to know that mount point . ' ls -al /media/sysop/ >> drwx------  10 sysop sysop 16384 Dec 31  1969 8023-774F ' . Where I am sysop . then one cam see the foiles on the usb drive like so ' ls -al ls -al /media/sysop/8023-774F ' .
[23:10] <NorbyDroid> Right now the USB is viewable on /mnt/usbdrive mounted from /dev/sdb1
[23:10] <Bashing-om> nor. so who owns that directory // ' ls -al ~/MyNorby ' .. root ??
[23:13] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Light reading : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions ; http://mywiki.wooledge.org/Permissions .
[23:13] <NorbyDroid> right now there is no folder in the home folder.
[23:13] <NorbyDroid> Gotcha
[23:13] <NorbyDroid> chmod
[23:15] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: NTFS file system is not posix complient .. if it ain't linux ./.. exercise more care .
[23:16] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: chmod only works for linux file systems .
[23:20] <NorbyDroid> Oh.  I just remember chmod from days gone by.
[23:20] <NorbyDroid> when it comes to permissions in linux
[23:21] <Bashing-om> NorbyDroid: Back in the day .. linux did not talk Windows and OSX // now we can . but the proprieties must be observed .


[00:58] <Sicnus> really loving ubuntu-gnome ;D
[04:22] <jono_> hey all
[04:23] <jono_> is there a plan for 3.18 to hit the stable ppa?
[07:17] <darkxst> Noskcaj, can you merge gnome-themes-standard and gsettings-desktop-schemas?
[07:18] <Noskcaj> darkxst, I'll have a look in a bit.
[07:19] <darkxst> Noskcaj, thanks
[07:31] <darkxst> Noskcaj, for clarity, mention that the notifications key is used by u-c-c
[07:31] <darkxst> ^gsettings key
[07:31] <darkxst> really u-c-c should port to the new key though
[09:57] <mgedmin> no gpg-agent :(
[10:04] <mgedmin> life without gpg-agent is grim and joyless
[10:09] <mgedmin> woohoo all I have to do is apt install gnupg-agent
[10:09] <mgedmin> and I get a nice gnome-shell popup asking for my passphrase \o/
[12:20] <iiious> after upgrade from 15.04 to 15.10, the animation of gnome-shell seems like low fps in intel graphics, anyone have same problem?
[12:20] <iiious> it seems to be normal in nvidia graphic and fresh install
[12:34] <iiious> darkxst: excuse me, is there any gnome-shell animation low fps/lag report with 15.10?
[12:45] <mgedmin> intel graphics here; no problems with 15.10
[12:48] <iiious> mgedmin: upgrade or fresh install?
[12:48] <mgedmin> upgrade
[12:49] <mgedmin> glxinfo |grep renderer.string => Mesa DRI Intel(R) Sandybridge Mobile
[12:51] <iiious> Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge Mobile here
[12:51] <iiious> before upgrade the animation of show applications is smooth
[12:52] <mgedmin> you mean Super+A?
[12:54] <iiious> yes, application icons fly out from "show applications" button
[12:58] <iiious> tried wayland, didn't work
[12:58] <iiious> under nvidia driver is normal, and friend's fresh install is normal
[12:58] <mgedmin> ok, it's not exactly smooth here
[12:58] <mgedmin> I don't remember it ever being smooth, TBH
[12:59] <mgedmin> I thought you meant all gnome-shell animations
[13:01] <iiious> what I can feel low fps is "show applications" and show activities
[13:01] <iiious> window maximize and minimize seems no problem
[13:02] <iiious> so strange
[13:02] <mgedmin> yeah, I've seen that always
[13:02] <mgedmin> no, not always
[13:02] <mgedmin> more like forever
[13:02] <mgedmin> thing is: after I've been using gnome-shell for a couple of days, say, hitting <Super> feels slow
[13:03] <mgedmin> (as if most frames are dropped)
[13:03] <mgedmin> hitting it again a few times makes it feel fast again
[13:03] <mgedmin> restarting gnome-shell makes it feel fast
[13:06] <iiious> hit <super>, the hit <super>+A many times, the animation low fps
[13:07] <iiious> under 3.14 it's smooth, no frames drop
[13:27] <LinDol_> hi all
[13:30] <iiious> LinDol_: hi
[13:31] <duo8> hi
[13:31] <duo8> how's the new kernel for you guys
[13:36] <iiious> works fine
[13:39] <duo8> it breaks a lot of stuff here so i'm back on 4.0.0
[13:48] <iiious> compile kernel by yourself?
[13:59] <LinDol_> iiious, hi :)
[13:59] <LinDol_> iiious, nice to meet you :)
[13:59] <iiious> LinDol_: :)
[14:32] <satanist|work> hi I have a problem with gnome-controle-center.real, it don't show all options
[14:33] <satanist|work> but gnome-control-center shows all
[16:33] <Springbank> Hi
[16:33] <Springbank> Some of you are speaking french here?
[17:07] <JohnnyComeL8ly> Springbank: Idk, but I speak English.... ;-)
[19:49] <weva> hello everyone, can you help me with critical problems of gnome disk utility please?
[23:01] <weva> hello everyone, can you help me with critical problems of gnome disk utility please?


[08:42]  * dimitern seems to be the only one here today :o)
[13:11] <lazyPower> Lots of good announcements yesterday :)
[13:11] <lazyPower> dimitern: at least we're going out on a high note for the week :D
[14:06] <dimitern> lazyPower,  :) oh yeah\
[19:06] <redelmann> hi, is safe to deploy block-storage-broker to machine0??
[19:07] <redelmann> create one instance just to manage credential is overkilling
[19:26] <skay> when trying to run bundletester in johnsca/charmbox I have this problem http://paste.ubuntu.com/10732721/
[19:30] <tvansteenburgh1> skay: try installing bzr
[19:30] <tvansteenburgh1> in the container, ie `sudo apt-get install bzr`
[19:30] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: bzr is installed.
[19:30] <tvansteenburgh1> hrm
[19:31] <skay> it's installed in the container, and I've also done some rounds of doing bzr launchpad-login, copying some ssh keys that I have with lp
[19:31] <skay> and I'm giving up and want to start from ground 0 with troubleshooting
[19:31] <tvansteenburgh1> can you `bzr branch lp:charmers/precise/python-django` manually?
[19:31] <skay> did I miss any steps?
[19:32] <marcoceppi_> tvansteenburgh1: that's not the righ command, should be lp:charms/precise/python-django
[19:32] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: no, but I can bzr branch lp:charms/python-django
[19:33] <tvansteenburgh1> skay: try bundletester with lp:charms/precise/python-django
[19:33] <tvansteenburgh1> (assuming you actually want precise)
[19:33] <lp|away> redelmann: thats an acceptable colocation use case.
[19:34] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: I just did, and the same thing happened
[19:34] <lp|away> redelmann: however this is with the assumption that it's going to be a precise bootstrap node - hopefully that wont cause you any headaches?
[19:35] <lp|away> a nice alternative would be to deploy it to a LXC container, colocated somewhere :) juju deploy --to lxc:# cs:precise/block-storage-broker
[19:35] <redelmann> lp|away: actually im using trusty/block-storag-broker
[19:35] <redelmann> lp|away: simple cloning it into local/trusty
[19:36] <tvansteenburgh1> skay: pastebin the contents of the django.yaml in the traceback
[19:36] <lp|away> redelmann: right, it hasn't been pushed to trusty as its pending amulet tests
[19:36] <lp|away> carry on then :)
[19:36] <redelmann> lp|away: im in testing enrimont for the moment, everithing look fine for now
[19:39] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10732802/
[19:39] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: I'm presuming that the trunk python-django charm passes tests
[19:39] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: I'm trying to get to a spot where I can run bundletester successfully so that I can start running it on my branches
[19:39] <tvansteenburgh1> skay: the branches in that bundle file are wrong
[19:40] <tvansteenburgh1> lp:charmers/precise/python-django
[19:40] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: does that mean trunk is failing?
[19:40] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: oh, I ran against lp:charms/precise/python-django
[19:42] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: that doesn't even start for me. bundletester -t lp:charmers/precise/python-django complains about my launchpad id
[19:42] <marcoceppi_> skay: lp:charmers/ is not a thing
[19:42] <tvansteenburgh1> skay: correct, that is the wrong branch
[19:42] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: does your ci thing do some extra stuff I'm missing?
[19:42] <tvansteenburgh1> that's what i mean, those need to be changed the yaml file
[19:42] <tvansteenburgh1> skay: no
[19:43] <tvansteenburgh1> s/charmers/charms/ in those lp branch paths
[19:43] <skay> okay
[19:43]  * skay wonders how the charm isn't failing currently
[19:43] <tvansteenburgh1> skay if you submit a patch i'll merge it
[19:44] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: if I managed to get it working I'll submit a mr
[19:44] <tvansteenburgh1> fair enough
[19:45] <skay> tvansteenburgh1: I'm afraid of wasting your time on my bundltester learning curve
[19:45] <tvansteenburgh> skay: no worries man, here to help
[19:47] <tvansteenburgh> it's not really a bundle tester issue though, the charm is just wrong
[19:47] <skay> yes, but since I've never successfuly done bundletester stuff one won't know whether anything else fails due to an environment problem or a real problem
[19:48] <tvansteenburgh> as to why it's not failing it CI, it probably hasn't been run. i'm about to kick off tests for it
[19:50] <skay> tvansteenburgh: okay, trying out a run now. lp:~codersquid/charms/precise/python-django/fix-test-branches I'll make a MR when it passes
[19:51] <tvansteenburgh> skay: cool
[19:54] <skay> oh foo. I think it failed due to some missing dependencies
[19:54] <lp|away> thats fun :)
[19:54] <lp|away> yaaay docker isolation catching dependency problems
[19:55] <skay> yeah
[19:55] <tvansteenburgh> skay: missing pyyaml i presume?
[19:55] <skay> thank one I remembered to install (and would be asking... about now)
[19:55] <skay> tvansteenburgh: how would one specify dependencies for bundletester and/or CI?
[19:56] <tvansteenburgh> need to specify for the charm itself
[19:56] <skay> I will install them by hand just to see if the rest works but I want to fix that
[19:56] <tvansteenburgh> is there a Makefile?
[19:56] <skay> yes
[19:56] <skay> it doesn't do that
[19:56] <skay> tvansteenburgh: I guess I could add a step
[19:57] <tvansteenburgh> yeah, like a deps target that the other targets depend on
[19:59] <skay> tvansteenburgh: what is safe to assume for CI. that ppa:juju/stable is installed?
[19:59] <tvansteenburgh> yeah
[20:00] <tvansteenburgh> also bundletester and flake8
[20:00] <skay> tvansteenburgh: the current repo has a script to install deps and checks for version 12.04. should I worry about supporting that?
[20:00] <skay> can I do trusty instead?
[20:01] <tvansteenburgh> which script?
[20:01] <skay> actually, I think I can just leave it alone and add it as something make calls
[20:02] <skay> tvansteenburgh: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~codersquid/charms/precise/python-django/fix-test-branches/view/head:/dev/ubuntu-deps
[20:02] <skay> I haven't changed that
[20:06] <tvansteenburgh> skay: i'd ignore that file, it won't be run in CI
[20:07] <skay> tvansteenburgh: what will CI run?
[20:07] <tvansteenburgh> in that case, make lint, and anything +x in the tests/ dir
[20:07] <tvansteenburgh> s/that/this/
[20:08] <skay> are there any other make targets it calls?
[20:08] <tvansteenburgh> by default it looks for make test and make lint
[20:08] <skay> ok, I could make test have a dependency on dep and that target could call the script
[20:10] <tvansteenburgh> you could i guess, but you really only need pyyaml, everything else is already installed in the container
[20:10] <skay> tvansteenburgh: it complained about curl
[20:10] <tvansteenburgh> heh, fair enough, curl too then
[20:11] <skay> not sure how much thought was put in to that script. I might just ignore it
[20:11] <skay> it's probably bitrotted by now
[20:12] <tvansteenburgh> agree
[20:18] <tvansteenburgh> skay: i just realized that it's not lint that needs the deps, it's the stuff in tests/
[20:19] <skay> tvansteenburgh: I'm running through without installing anything until something fails so that I can have a list of what tests/ requires
[20:19] <tvansteenburgh> so you could just make a tests/00-setup file (+x) and install deps there
[20:19] <skay> oh, okay
[20:19] <skay> I'd prefer that than to changing a makefile
[20:22] <skay> is it safe to assume that CI will be running from an account with sudo privs?
[20:22] <skay> oh derp, I can go look at the dockerfile
[20:23] <skay> since that's now the way you do things
[20:35] <tvansteenburgh> skay: yeah
[20:35] <tvansteenburgh> passwordless sudo even
[20:35] <skay> tvansteenburgh: how did the tests fair for trunk that you kicked off?
[20:36] <tvansteenburgh> http://reports.vapour.ws/charm-test-details/charm-bundle-test-parent-209
[20:36] <skay> tvansteenburgh: so far I've only installed python3-yaml and curl and the first few tests run
[20:37] <tvansteenburgh> cool
[20:52] <redelmann> lp|away: Juju stable (1.22) has support for lxc?
[20:56] <marcoceppi_> redelmann: juju has had lxc support since some of the very first few versions
[20:57] <redelmann> marcoceppi_: but you cant expose lxc services? im right?
[20:57] <redelmann> marcoceppi_: or it cant handle iptables?
[21:15] <skay> tvansteenburgh: would you consider kicking off a ci run for https://code.launchpad.net/~codersquid/charms/precise/python-django/fix-test-branches/+merge/255214 ?
[21:15] <tvansteenburgh> skay: sure
[21:16] <skay> my laptop is underpowered
[21:16] <tvansteenburgh> in progress
[21:21] <tvansteenburgh> container can't do merges since on bzr user is set, so i'm running against your branch directly
[21:21] <tvansteenburgh> s/on/no/
[21:22] <skay> okay
[21:22] <tvansteenburgh> you can follow along here http://juju-ci.vapour.ws:8080/job/charm-bundle-test-lxc/36/console
[21:22] <tvansteenburgh> (lxc)
[21:22] <skay> oh thanks!
[21:24] <roadmr> juju-ci cool!
[21:24] <tvansteenburgh> skay: fair warning, i gotta go in about 20 min
[21:25] <skay> tvansteenburgh: no worries. and I am wanting to EOD myself.
[21:25] <tvansteenburgh> it's beer brewing night
[21:25] <skay> oh pleasant
[21:38] <jw4> thanks marcoceppi_
[21:39] <marcoceppi_> jw4: yeah, didn't notice until you changed it
[21:39] <jw4> heh
[21:46] <tvansteenburgh> skay: gotta run, but i'll assuming the tests pass i'll get your branch merged later
[21:46] <skay> tvansteenburgh: o/
[21:46] <skay> okay, thanks
[21:47] <tvansteenburgh> sure thing